1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Regular Session 10 Monday, September 10, 2001 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: FREDERICK L. HENNEKE, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 LARRY GRIFFIN, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X September 10, 2001 2 PAGE --- Commissioners Comments 3 3 1.1 Pay Bills 8 1.2 Budget Amendments 8 4 1.3 Late Bills -- 1.4 Read and Approve Minutes 16 5 1.5 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 17 6 2.1 Allowing scheduled projects done after Sept. 30 to be paid out of FY 2000/2001 budget 17 7 2.2 Credit card for Kerr County Sheriff's Dept. 18 8 2.3 Discuss 2001 LLEBG grant, set public hearing 47 9 2.4 Allocation of residual funds from Lake Ingram 10 Estates Road District bond, adoption of tax rate for the road district for Year 2001 50 11 2.5 Discuss Order Prohibiting the Keeping of Wild 12 Animals, pursuant to Chapter 240, Local Govern- ment Code, and creating criminal penalty 53 13 2.6 Set price for purchase of copies of proposed 14 budget from County Clerk 63 15 --- Adjourned 64 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 On Monday, September 10, 2001, at 9 o'clock a.m., a regular 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Good morning, everyone. It's 8 9 o'clock in the morning on Monday, September 10, Year 2001. 9 I will call to order this regular meeting of the Kerr County 10 Commissioners Court. Who has the honors this morning? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I believe I do. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. Commissioner 13 Williams? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Please join me in a 15 prayer and pledge of allegiance to the flag. 16 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. At this time, any 18 citizen wishing to address the Court on an item not listed 19 on the regular agenda may come forth and do so. Is there 20 any citizen who would like to address the Court on an item 21 not listed on the regular agenda? 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: One more time, is there any 24 citizen in the courtroom who would like to address the Court 25 on an item not listed on the regular agenda? If not, we'll 4 1 move into the Commissioners' comments, and we'll start with 2 Commissioner Williams. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm going to yield my 4 time to Commissioner Baldwin, so he can give us all the 5 details about the Tivy come-from-behind victory on Friday 6 night. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I've got the 8 stats. 9 (Laughter.) 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, thank you. I 11 won't do that, but we won. We won. It was a come-from- 12 behind; it was pretty scary, but it was a fairly good ball 13 game, Jon. First game out. This next -- this coming 14 Thursday, we travel to Austin to play over there, so things 15 are going to get better and better as we go along. My only 16 other comment that I have is that tomorrow at 3 p.m., I 17 wanted to alert the courthouse family that State 18 Representative Kenn George will be coming through the 19 courthouse to say hello to everyone. I think he's a -- a 20 candidate for Land Commissioner, I believe. So, that's 21 3 o'clock tomorrow afternoon. And they have requested that 22 Commissioners Court be here, and I'm sure some of us will, 23 but they will go to -- from office to office, just to 24 introduce themselves and say hello. And, that's all I have. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. Commissioner 5 1 Williams? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No comments. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Jonathan? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Only one thing. I'd just 5 like to welcome back to the courtroom today Gene Ritchie; I 6 saw him out in the hall and he's been absent for a long 7 time. He's a longtime court watcher, recovering from 8 surgery, I understand. Welcome back. 9 MR. RITCHIE: Thank you. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Larry? 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I just want to say 12 that everybody has done a great job, I think, of getting 13 trash piles burned, brush piles burned. And I think, if we 14 keep things up, we can look at perhaps lifting the burn ban 15 -- well, I guess we won't meet now until -- 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Monday. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- until the 24th, and 18 that's when it expires, but things are looking pretty good 19 out there. I've talked with the fire departments out in 20 Precinct 4, and I know that there are very few burn piles 21 still left. So, we've done very well in this area. That's 22 all, Judge. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: As it should be. Along the 24 lines of what Commissioner Baldwin said, our new -- our new 25 prospective state senator, Troy Fraser, will be here on 6 1 Wednesday morning. He'll be in the courthouse about a 2 little before 10:00. He'd like to meet with as many of the 3 Commissioners and other elected officials as possible. 4 There are -- at his request, we've extended an invitation to 5 members of the City Council and other elected officials and 6 community leaders to meet with Senator Fraser at about 7 10 o'clock, but he'll be here shortly before 10:00 to meet 8 with as many of the Commissioners as are available, as well 9 as other elected officials throughout the courthouse. So, 10 anyone who has the time, come down and say hello to our new 11 state senator, Senator Troy Fraser from Marble Falls. And, 12 I will remind everyone of our budget hearing a week from 13 today, starting at 10 o'clock. Ten o'clock is the public 14 hearing on the elected officials' salary increases; 10:30, 15 the hearing on the budget; and 11 o'clock, the hearing on 16 the tax rate. Those will be public hearings only. We will 17 not schedule any action on those. The action will be 18 scheduled at our regular meeting on September 24th. So, 19 anyone with any concerns, keep that in mind for next week. 20 Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I do have one other 22 comment, and I almost forgot this; I spend so much time on 23 it. CPAC, which is the -- the City's long-range planning 24 committee, which I represent the Court on, there is a town 25 meeting scheduled on the 18th, and we're recommending anyone 7 1 coming -- this is going to be kind of what's been done, kind 2 of from the beginning till now. Kind of a -- I guess a 3 checkpoint, from the City standpoint, with the community to 4 make sure that everyone's kind of going on track. We've had 5 -- we had a public -- or town forum kind of public meeting 6 in May, and a lot of -- received a lot of input, and this is 7 just kind of a check on that to make sure we're kind of 8 going in the direction of what those comments were, and it's 9 also a real good time to kind of see that direction. 10 There's plenty of time; it's going to be going on for 11 another nine months or so, that process. I was put on 12 the -- or as chair of the Transportation Subcommittee, 13 because it was felt, I guess, by the powers that be at the 14 City that that is probably the area where the County needs 15 to work the closest with the City. So, we're working on 16 that, looking at long-range routes and all of the traffic 17 patterns and development and all of that. But, it would be 18 a good time for anyone from the public or on the 19 Commissioners Court to come and get an idea of what's going 20 on with long-range planning from the City. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: When is that? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On the 18th of September. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What time? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I believe it's at 6:30. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And where? 8 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It will be at the 2 Peterson Middle School cafeteria. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do they provide 4 cigarettes or do we bring our own? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think you can bring 6 your own. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Good reminder. Anything 9 else? Okay. If not, let's pay some bills. Tommy? Does 10 anyone have any questions or comments regarding the bills as 11 presented by the Auditor? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move we pay the 13 bills. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 16 Baldwin, second by Commissioner Williams, that the Court 17 approve and authorize payment of the bills as presented by 18 the County Auditor. Any further questions or comments? If 19 not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Budget 24 amendments. Budget Amendment Number 1 relates to J.P. 25 Number 4. 9 1 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. This request is from 2 J.P. 4 to transfer $93.40 from Miscellaneous to Equipment 3 Repairs. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner Letz, 7 second by Commissioner Griffin, that the Court approve 8 Budget Amendment Request Number 1 for J.P. Number 4. Any 9 further questions or comments? If not, all in favor, raise 10 your right hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 2 is 15 also for J.P. Number 4. 16 MR. TOMLINSON: This request is to transfer 17 $167.25 from Postage to Lease Copier. That's to pay for 18 three month's copier expense for remainder of the year. 19 This bill that we have here is for July, so we have August 20 and September left. 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So moved. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 24 Griffin, second by Commissioner Letz, that the Court approve 25 Budget Amendment Request Number 2 for J.P. Number 4. Any 10 1 further questions or comments? 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: You need a hand check 3 on that? 4 MR. TOMLINSON: I didn't ask for one. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any further questions or 6 comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 7 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Opposed, same sign. 9 (No response.) 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 3 is 11 for the jail and the Sheriff's Department. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: This request is to transfer 13 the $6,332.29 from the Radio Equipment line item out of the 14 Sheriff's Office, $3,333.18 to Prisoner Medical in the jail, 15 $756.30 to Employee Medical Exams in the jail, $284.49 into 16 Vehicle Repairs and Maintenance for the Sheriff's Office, 17 $1,236.46 to Prisoner Transfer in the jail, $188.64 to 18 Computer Supplies in the Sheriff's Office, and $131.34 in 19 Investigation Expenses for the Sheriff's Office, and $401.88 20 to Lease Copier for the Sheriff's Office. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second, with a 23 question. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 25 Williams, second by Commissioner Baldwin, that the Court 11 1 approve Budget Amendment Request Number 3. Commissioner 2 Baldwin, you had a question? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes. Sheriff, the 4 employee medical exams, $756.30, are those -- what is it? 5 That can't be all new employees. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Anytime we have a new 7 employee, they have to go through psychological exams and 8 the physical and drug screening, things like that, and they 9 get over $300 apiece by the time you add those things 10 together. That's only two employees. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any further questions or 13 comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Budget 18 Amendment Number 4 is for the County Court at Law and 216th 19 District Court jury funds. 20 MR. TOMLINSON: We have a need to transfer 21 $130.73 from the Jurors line item in 216th Court Jury Fund, 22 $100 to County Court at Law Special Court Reporter line 23 item, and $30.73 to Operating Supplies in the 216th District 24 Court Jury Fund. 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So moved. 12 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 3 Griffin,second by Commissioner Letz, that the Court approve 4 Budget Amendment Request Number 4 for the County Court at 5 Law and 216th District Court Jury Funds. Any further 6 questions or comments? If not, all in favor, raise your 7 right hand. 8 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 10 (No response.) 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 5 is 12 for the 216th Adult Probation. 13 MR. TOMLINSON: We're requesting a transfer 14 of $968 from the D.O.E.P instructor, $850 to Utilities and 15 Maintenance and $118 to Telephone. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is in 17 anticipation of another bill coming in on Utilities and 18 Maintenance? 19 MR. TOMLINSON: No. No, we -- we have a bill 20 to pay, I think. I'm not sure of that, but I -- I can find 21 that out for later. I'm not sure, Commissioner. I don't 22 have the bill attached to this. But, it doesn't say that 23 it's for the -- for the future, either. So, I'll find out 24 about that. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's fine. 13 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion to approve? 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So moved. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 5 Griffin, second by Commissioner Letz, that the Court approve 6 Budget Amendment Request Number 5 for the 216th Adult 7 Probation Department. Any further questions or comments? 8 If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 9 (Commissioners Baldwin, Letz, and Griffin voted in favor of the motion.) 10 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Item Number 14 6 is for the Juvenile Probation and the Commissioners Court. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. This amendment is to 16 fund a part-time salary for -- for the Juvenile Probation, 17 and it's to Contract Services for $780. Per the Judge -- 18 the County Judge, we're transferring $780 from Professional 19 Services from the Commissioners Court line item. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 23 Williams, second by Commissioner Letz, that the Court 24 approve Budget Amendment Request Number 6 for Juvenile 25 Probation. Any questions or comments? 14 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes. What -- what 2 kind of a part-time employee? 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: The secretary for the 4 Juvenile Probation Department has had surgery and will be 5 out for four to six weeks. Any further questions or 6 comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 7 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Opposed, same sign. 9 (No response.) 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 7 is 11 for the District Clerk. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. The Clerk is -- has 13 requested a transfer of $2,000 from her Capital Outlay line 14 item for postage. I have attached to this a late bill 15 that -- that I'm requesting a hand check for $2,000 to U.S. 16 Postal Service. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner Letz, 20 second by Commissioner Griffin, that the Court approve 21 Budget Amendment Request Number 7 for the District Clerk and 22 authorize issuance of a hand check payable to the U.S. 23 Postmaster in the amount of $2,000. Any further questions 24 or comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Item Number 4 8 is for the 216th District Court, County Court at Law, and 5 Sheriff's Department. 6 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. This request is to 7 transfer $4,448.25 from the Radio Equipment line item in the 8 Sheriff's Department. We need $882.50 in Court-Appointed 9 Attorneys for the 216th Court, $2,603.25 for Special Trials, 10 also for the 216th Court, and $962.50 for Court-Appointed 11 Attorneys for County Court at Law. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner Letz, 15 second by Commissioner Williams, that the Court approve 16 Budget Amendment Request Number 8 for the 216th District 17 Court and the County Court at Law. Any further questions or 18 comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Item Number 23 9 is for Rabies and Animal Control. 24 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. This amendment, per 25 Marc Allen, is to pay the vehicle gas, oil, and maintenance, 16 1 repairs and fuel -- fuel needs for the rest of the year, and 2 it is for $617.51. And, he's asking to transfer that from 3 his Capital Outlay line item. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 7 Williams, second by Commissioner Griffin, that the Court 8 approve Budget Amendment Request Number 9 for the Rabies and 9 Animal Control Department. Any questions or comments? If 10 not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Late bills? 15 At this time, I'd entertain a motion to waive reading and 16 approve the minutes of the August 13th, August 21st, 17 August 27th, and August 29th meetings of the Kerr County 18 Commissioners Court. 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So moved. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 22 Griffin, second by Commissioner Baldwin, that the Court 23 waive reading and approve the minutes of the August 13th, 24 August 21st, August 27th, and August 29th meetings of the 25 Kerr County Commissioners Court. Any questions or comments? 17 1 If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 2 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Opposed, same sign. 4 (No response.) 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. At this 6 time, I'd also entertain a motion to approve and accept the 7 monthly reports as presented. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner Letz, 11 second by Commissioner Griffin, that the Court approve the 12 monthly reports -- accept and approve the monthly reports as 13 presented. Any questions or comments? If not, all in 14 favor, raise your right hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Okay. 19 Turning to the consideration agenda, the first item 20 actually, I believe, was -- was taken care of as a result of 21 our budget workshop, which was consider allowing scheduled 22 projects done after September 30th to be paid out of 23 2000/2001 budget. We cannot, by law, do that, but what we 24 will do is carry over the funds for it and move the projects 25 into next year's budget. Is that everyone's understanding? 18 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. It was -- it was 2 going to be about $50,000, I understand, that would be added 3 to next year's budget in whatever the line item -- I guess 4 Emulsions is where most of it was coming out. 5 MS. HARDIN: We're down to $44,022. We oiled 6 Hermann Sons. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are you saying there's 8 not enough money in the line item to complete this year -- I 9 mean, to complete it this year? Or we already bought all 10 the -- 11 MS. HARDIN: No, we have enough money in the 12 line item now to complete the jobs, but with the rain, we're 13 not able to go in and do it. 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: But it's not $50,000; 15 it's $44,000 now, because of the -- 16 MS. HARDIN: But we bought it Friday, and 17 then next week, weather permitting, we'll buy more. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Whatever the balance is, the 20 intent of the Court is to roll it over into next year's 21 budget. So, next item, Item Number 2, consider and discuss 22 obtaining a credit card for Kerr County Sheriff's 23 Department. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: This is a subject that's 25 been talked about, and y'all came to an agreement at one 19 1 time. But, I have a little bit of a unique situation, in 2 that without a -- a totally department credit card out 3 there, I use my personal one, and that's for making hotel 4 reservations on trips, trying to get funds for the deputies 5 when they go on trips. I've got one this week going to 6 Illinois to pick up a prisoner. Or on all our schooling; 7 every time we have to make school reservations and all that, 8 it goes to my -- on my personal credit card. 9 I know that the Judge has an American Express 10 that we can apply for that's still on my personal credit, 11 and then the Court reimburses me for it. The problem with 12 that -- and not complaining so much about the way some 13 things work, but I know we've had two times in the last 14 year, on gasoline credit cards alone, where we got cut off 15 because a bill wasn't paid in time, okay, by the County. I 16 don't want my personal credit ruined or something if I can't 17 get reimbursement in time, and I don't think I have the 18 funds in my personal checking account, and I know my wife 19 doesn't appreciate it if we have to start paying, you know, 20 $500 and $600 bills out of our account and then wait to get 21 reimbursed. I really feel, because of the amount of 22 training, the amount of schools, and the amount of 23 transports that we have, that I need a Kerr County Sheriff's 24 Department credit card that the bill comes straight to the 25 County that's not on my personal credit line. 20 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's a decision the Court 2 has said we're not going to do. We could always change our 3 minds. There is no problem with reimbursement if you 4 properly get your -- your invoices submitted as a result of 5 travel. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, our -- 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: With the American Express 8 card, when you -- when you charge something on it, the bill 9 doesn't come out for a couple weeks, and you have 30 days, 10 which is at least two courts, two court sessions, before the 11 bill is due. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I understand. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: If someone charges something 14 on American Express and doesn't get reimbursed before they 15 have to pay the bill, that's because they have been lax in 16 submitting the request for reimbursement. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Our credit card bills, 18 especially, like, our gasoline bills, Judge, go in as soon 19 as we get them, okay? They're coded and they're sent over 20 here. I know at least two times this year Texaco cut us off 21 and we had to get the County Auditor to call them because of 22 late payment on bills. I can't afford to have my personal 23 credit ruined if it happens that way. I can't afford to pay 24 a $500 or $700 bill out of my pocket and wait for the County 25 to reimburse if they don't get the checks cut on time, or if 21 1 the bill doesn't get processed in time. Due to the number 2 of -- of reservations and things like that we have, all 3 right, the only other way -- and it costs me extra money. 4 This last time I sent two officers to Houston, and the only 5 way we could do it was I got -- from the reservations we 6 made before the school started, 'cause we have to make those 7 reservations in advance, okay, then they send me the 8 reservation notice and I get reimbursed for that. But the 9 incidentals, once they got down there to the school, if they 10 had to call back and that, got put on that same hotel room, 11 and things like that. I had to pay for that out of my 12 pocket, because the bill had already been reimbursed, and 13 the school -- we make, you know, month-in-advance 14 reservations and that, and it's going through on my credit 15 cards. What I'm asking for -- and I'll be honest. The 16 other thing is, if I do it the way the Court has agreed, 17 okay, that I get a credit card, it's in my name; it's my 18 responsibility. Then you, as Judge, get a copy of my bill, 19 okay? Whether I have personal stuff on there or not. It's 20 my credit card. 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: You can't put 22 personal -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You can't put -- 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's our policy you can't put 25 personal stuff on the card you get through the County's 22 1 program. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, then, why should I 3 get a personal credit card if I can't, one, use it 4 personally, but yet it affects my credit if the County 5 doesn't pay it on time? Or if the bill doesn't get through 6 on time? 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: The whole idea of that 8 State-sponsored program for American -- that's under 9 contract with American Express is that employees can have 10 those cards, but they can only use them for official 11 business, period. Now, if you want another credit card from 12 American Express or anybody for your own personal use, of 13 course, you can do that. But I have -- like, in my case -- 14 I suspect it's true of the others -- I have a Kerr County 15 corporate card that I can only use for Kerr County business. 16 And I have never -- I have never been billed -- in the two 17 years, three years that we've had that, I have never been 18 billed before I was reimbursed. And, you can always -- if 19 something happens that somebody gets sick or something and 20 can't come in and file a travel voucher or travel claim, we 21 can always -- we meet every two weeks, and we approve a lot 22 of late bills. If anybody gets -- and two weeks is never 23 going to get you in trouble with American Express. If we 24 get a late bill, I don't know why in the world we wouldn't 25 approve it if -- if it's not in the cycle for the -- for the 23 1 printout, for the monthly payments. So -- so, I think there 2 is -- usually, the problem with people not being reimbursed 3 before they get the bill is because they didn't submit the 4 claim when they got back. I do it the day I get back. I've 5 never -- I've never gotten reimbursed after I got a bill. 6 Never. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, my problem is, 8 too, if you do it where it's not all on my personal one, 9 okay, and do it without having a corporate card for the 10 department -- which American Express can do -- can do it 11 that way, because they used to have one with the District 12 Attorney's office that was that way, okay? It's a corporate 13 card. If I do it on my personal one, either I have to have 14 it personally and charge for every employee I have going to 15 schools or making trips, okay, or if we do it for each 16 individual one, then I've got 80 employees that may end up 17 having to apply for cards. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Well, you know, I 19 don't know of any of the schools that we go to that we can't 20 prepay with a check from the Auditor's office. I mean, we 21 -- from the Treasurer's office. But, I mean, we can -- if 22 we know -- if we know that somebody's going to go to school, 23 we can always -- we can always prepay that. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We have. 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: With cash. 24 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We have been trying to 2 do that for the last year, okay? 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: But -- I know you 4 can't do the hotel and all, but -- 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You can't do the hotel, 6 which -- 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But, in this 8 connection, the hotel -- hotel reservation isn't applied to 9 your card until -- 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Until you check out. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Whether you check in 12 or you skip. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They apply to mine, 14 'cause I sure get it on my next statement. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not on American 16 Express. Usually that's based on credit, but not -- but 17 it's not on your bill until you check in. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But then the bottom 19 line -- and what else scares me, I have excellent credit, 20 all right? And I would hope the County does, too. But I 21 had an officer on a trip that stopped to fill up with gas, 22 okay, at Texaco, 'cause we do have Texaco cards that are 23 department cards; they're not on my personal one, and Texaco 24 rejected the card 'cause the account was closed 'cause they 25 hadn't gotten paid. Now, whether they didn't get paid 25 1 'cause it wasn't sent in time, whether the bill got lost in 2 the mail, I don't know, but I don't want my personal credit 3 ruined on something I have no control over. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Well, I don't blame 5 you for that. But, the problem -- what I'm saying -- I'm 6 not arguing that point. I'm arguing the point that I don't 7 see that there is any way that you -- that anybody, for any 8 card, can't be reimbursed before the bill comes in. All you 9 got to do is submit the claim. And, if it requires a late 10 bill processing, we'll approve it. But -- you know, we 11 can -- Barbara? 12 MS. NEMEC: As far as the hotel, you can get 13 the -- a check for the hotel. We have people doing it all 14 the time, departments doing it all the time. You just need 15 to call the hotel, ask them how much it is per night, ask 16 them what the tax is going to be, figure out how many days 17 you're going to be there, turn it in to the Auditor's 18 office, and we will give those checks out before the 19 employee goes on the seminar. It's done all the time. And 20 as far as the problem that he says that he has, I realize he 21 has more employees than any of us do, but it's the same 22 problem we all have. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: Apparently, there is a little 24 difference between a gas card and -- and a credit card, in 25 that gas people -- gas credit cards don't give you as much 26 1 time as -- as a credit card does. And, when -- if we have a 2 lot of people using the same company, like Texaco, we get a 3 bill from Texaco, then we only have a limited amount of time 4 to -- to get those from whoever received the bill to us and 5 pay it. That's a little different than -- than a credit 6 card. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just as a matter of 8 curiosity, Sheriff, how many gas cards do you have out among 9 your people? 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: My transport guys are 11 the only ones that carry them. Transport and some of the 12 investigators. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The beauty of 14 American Express is you can purchase gas anywhere. You 15 don't have to worry about Texaco; you can buy it on American 16 Express card. County business, you can purchase it at any 17 station that has the automatic device on it. Any station, 18 probably. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I just -- you know, I 20 strongly feel that -- that, number one, with the number of 21 employees we have, the number of schools we go to, the 22 number of trips we make, especially on a lot of trips, you 23 know, that I would prefer to have one card that is a total 24 County corporate card through American Express, that I can 25 use to reserve all those reservations on, that we can use to 27 1 pay for those meals when they go on those trips. We try and 2 give them an allowance for meals and things like that, 3 instead of having to use my personal, family credit card. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But you don't use -- 5 somewhere we're missing -- don't use your personal, family 6 credit card. Get a Kerr County credit card. It's under 7 your own credit, but -- 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's under my personal 9 credit. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's just for -- 11 it's just for the payment of it. And we can -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You can get an advance. 13 You can get a monthly advance, if you want. 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. If you need it, 15 we could -- we can set that up to -- to prepay your bill. I 16 mean, it -- we haven't had to do that. I -- has anybody 17 here that uses the corporate card ever been billed before 18 you got reimbursed? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The problem is, I use 21 them a number of times every month. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: The American Express 23 corporate card? 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, I use a different 25 one when I make reservations. We don't have any Kerr County 28 1 credit cards, okay? 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: One reason I'm not -- 4 you know, I'm doing the same thing now, but I use my 5 personal credit card because, either way, I'm responsible 6 for that thing. 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's a little 8 different -- 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No matter what it 10 amounts to -- 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- little different in 12 the corporate card sense, because the corporate card, the 13 County stands behind. It's part of the state contract. 14 That -- and American Express knows they're going to get 15 paid, because it's under a contract. They know they're 16 going to get paid; the risk is small. They can have 25 days 17 from the -- from the date of closing until the bill is due. 18 Twenty-five days, that's two court meetings. If anybody 19 can't get a claim filed that fast, or we can't process a 20 prepayment to cover the bill, then, boy, we got a problem. 21 I mean, a real problem. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But if the bill gets 23 held up in the mail or the bill gets delayed for some 24 reason, okay, then who ends up paying all those interest 25 charges and whose credit does it affect? It doesn't affect 29 1 the County's; it affects mine, my personal credit. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: But, if -- if you get 3 a bill that you -- that you haven't been reimbursed for, all 4 you've got to do is process a late payment, and we can do it 5 in a week. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rusty, I mean, I 7 understand your -- you do have a lot more employees than 8 anybody else and you travel a lot, and I understand all 9 that, but if you could get the Kerr County -- the corporate 10 card from the County and it ever happened, I can assure you, 11 call American Express and they could undo your credit -- 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Absolutely. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- if it was the County's 14 fault. And, I mean, I can't -- I mean, I use American 15 Express almost entirely as my personal card, and it's easier 16 for me that way; I don't use the County card. But, I mean, 17 everyone's saying you have two weeks. Well, in reality, on 18 most charges you have almost two months, because you have 30 19 days after the bill to make -- or 45 days after you see the 20 bill to get the payment in. Then you have 25 days after you 21 charge it before you get a bill, and so you have anywhere 22 from 50 to 30 days to get reimbursement. 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: The one problem with 24 companies that I know that I've had experience with, where 25 they had a company card that the company has paid, is that 30 1 there is no incentive for the employee to file a travel 2 claim. None. So, you end up running way, way behind, 3 because -- because, hey, the employee -- there's no skin off 4 the employee's nose. But the -- the employee's got to sit 5 down and fill out a travel voucher or whatever the process 6 is, but there's no incentive to do that. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The difference is that I 8 want one card, okay, so the employees don't carry cards. 9 Okay? And I want one card that is a department card that we 10 can use on those times, and then we have our own transport 11 vouchers the guys have to fill out if they're transporting. 12 You know, we can make the reservations through the school, 13 or can be paying the schools anywhere and things like that, 14 airline tickets. You know, all that has to be purchased, if 15 we're flying, way in advance to get the best prices. And, 16 the -- for the trip and that, okay? And -- 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: As soon as the bill 18 comes in -- 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- then we've got all 20 the incidentals that has to be done, whether it be rooms, 21 whether -- or meals. You know, it may be meals for 22 prisoners, it may be meals for the officers at the schools 23 and things like that, that I'm having to pull funds out 24 of -- out of a seizure account and then try and get that 25 reimbursed, okay, before that comes due. I just -- I have a 31 1 hard time understanding why a County government, who -- who 2 we run all these large budgets, why I should have to have my 3 personal credit of -- me and my wife's personal credit at 4 risk to do things I have to do for the County government. 5 That's my concern. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You don't, Sheriff. 7 You really don't. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: You don't have to -- 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If that bill doesn't get 10 paid on time, okay -- we turn them in immediately, just like 11 we do our Texaco. And, I know now the Auditor's saying 12 different, but if it doesn't get paid on time, it is my 13 personal credit. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A good example of 15 what Commissioner Griffin was saying a while ago was, we 16 just approved bills, and one particular individual in one 17 particular department turned in four months worth of 18 telephone bills. Four months worth. That's not the 19 County's fault, that's that individual's fault. It was paid 20 this morning, but there were four separate months worth of 21 bills. 22 MS. NEMEC: Judge, I understand what the 23 Sheriff is saying, and I completely agree with him. But 24 that is the policy, and if it's going to be a policy, it 25 needs to be for everyone. If we're going to change it, then 32 1 it needs to be for us other departments also. But, a 2 solution to that is, you don't wait for the bill to come in. 3 You get your receipt, and -- 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: File it right then. 5 MS. NEMEC: -- you turn your receipts in and 6 you ask that they be -- that the check be paid -- payable to 7 American Express, so that when that bill does come in, 8 you've got the check right there. As soon as you get back 9 from the seminar, you turn in those receipts. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: You don't have to wait 11 to get paid to file for the claim. You do that with your 12 receipt for the hotel. 13 MS. NEMEC: And, I agree with him. I 14 don't -- I have not applied for one of those cards, because 15 I'm -- I may as well just use my own. So, I understand, and 16 I don't like the policy, but there is a solution to it. 17 And, if we're going to change it for one department, we need 18 to go back and change it for all the others. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: What we inherited when we 20 took over was, there was a Kerr County credit card, and it 21 got passed around. Somebody would come in and say, "I need 22 the credit card." "Here." And there was no reconciliation. 23 There was no -- there was no control. The bill came 24 straight to the County. No one knew what it was for. You 25 know, maybe they amassed some receipts, maybe they didn't, 33 1 but it was just a credit card out there floating around the 2 employees, and that was unacceptable, which is why we went 3 to the current situation. The argument that you may not get 4 reimbursed in time and make a payment really is specious, 5 because that's a management issue. I mean, I went to the 6 TAC Post-Legislative Conference, turned in my receipts the 7 day I got back; I put the check in my drawer and I held the 8 check for 17 days before the bill came in. Which means I 9 had the check 42 days before the bill had to be paid. Now, 10 it's a little more difficult when you're operating an office 11 like yours, but you can put some controls on there. If 12 somebody goes out on a trip and they don't have receipts in 13 within three days, then -- 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The difference is, 15 your -- your card you have in your name is yours. Okay? 16 Mine, in my name, I will be giving to 80-some-odd employees 17 to go out and use -- that's on my personal credit -- and get 18 those bills. I can -- it's a control issue, too, you know. 19 I don't -- I don't think, Judge, that you would want to give 20 a personal credit card that's totally responsible for you, 21 okay, to 80 different people to go use. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Probably not. You have the 23 ability, as the department head, to authorize those people 24 to get a card in their own name if that's the way you want 25 to do it. 34 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: There's no limit to 2 the number of corporate cards. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's not limited to the 4 department heads. It's up to the department head to 5 decide -- 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: You're responsible for 7 it. All you got to do to get reimbursed is file the claim. 8 We can have as many cards -- it doesn't cost us anything; 9 that's the beauty of going under the state program. It 10 costs us nothing. We -- any employee that needs a card for 11 County business can have one. That's a judgment call. 12 That's a -- 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Now, which way -- my 14 only problem with that is, which way do you have more 15 control? One card throughout the county where the 16 department head or the elected official knows exactly what's 17 going on it, or 80 cards with 80 employees you're trying to 18 keep up with to make sure they're charging the right things? 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: The system you're proposing, 20 you don't know what goes on that card, 'cause that bill 21 comes directly to the County. It does not come through you. 22 If you have a bill that just says Kerr County, the bill 23 doesn't come to you; it comes to the County. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The mailing address on 25 the bill would determine where it would come to, where I 35 1 approve the bill when it comes through to the Auditor. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: So, then you're going to have 3 to keep track of what everyone does. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I do now, but it's on my 5 personal card. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Well, the -- 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I -- you know, I'm just 8 throwing this out. This isn't something that should take 30 9 minutes on the agenda. And if you approve it, fine; if you 10 don't, fine. That's what I'm concerned about. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: The accountability is the 12 issue. If you can come up with a system where there is a 13 Kerr County Sheriff's Department card, where the bill comes 14 to the individual, they have to process the receipts and 15 they have to come up with the money if they don't process 16 the receipts, or if they've charged something that's not 17 authorized -- 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: How -- 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- we will look at that. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: How will I know -- if I 21 have to go to -- 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's the management issue. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- to the employees and 24 give them each a card, how will you really know, on those, 25 who's used what, what receipts I expect to come in? If I 36 1 have one corporate card -- 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I can guarantee -- 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- for the County, I 4 will know. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: What will happen is, 6 every month you can get a copy of the report that the Judge 7 gets. You know who everybody -- every one of us that has an 8 American Express corporate card for Kerr County, we can only 9 use it for Kerr County business. Every charge is -- that's 10 made is in the report that goes to the County Judge. We can 11 give you a copy of that just as easy. You can go right down 12 the list. You can see -- and it breaks it out by employee 13 name, that way, so you know exactly what they spent. If you 14 see trip to Vegas on there, you say, "Wait a minute, that's 15 improper." Even if you paid it, you cannot put that on your 16 corporate bill. I mean, companies do this, state government 17 does it, the feds do it, usually all with American Express 18 corporate cards, you know, because I think American Express 19 just figured out how to do it, and do it the easiest way. 20 And it works. And, there's no -- and you're now putting the 21 onus for accountability where it belongs, and that's with 22 the person that has that credit card. And that's where it 23 ought to be. That's just good management practice. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rusty, you said you're 25 talking about 80 cards. You also said earlier that you 37 1 really only have five transport people, or -- you know -- 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Five investigators that 3 I try to -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're the ones -- give 5 them the card and see if that works. It will be on their 6 own credit, you know. But, at the same time -- but they -- 7 if you use a Kerr County card, though, or corporate card, 8 get -- this may not be clear. Only Kerr County business. I 9 mean, they're -- 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: By the way -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: None -- 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: If I might interrupt 13 for a second, by the way, every employee that gets issued 14 one of these cards under the state program gets a brochure. 15 It goes into great detail explaining all of that, that says 16 that this is only for official business. You cannot put 17 your personal stuff on there. If you want to do that, carry 18 another card, just like I do. And -- and I think most of us 19 do that, have those cards. But, your key people could 20 have -- your key people that need those cards could do it; 21 you wouldn't have to give it to all 80, necessarily. If you 22 want to continue using a Texaco card or whatever it is you 23 do for gasoline, that may be -- maybe that suffices for 24 that. But, for the problem you're trying to solve, I think 25 the individual cards is a better solution. That's all I'm 38 1 -- and it shouldn't be on your card. That's -- I agree with 2 that part of it. It shouldn't be on yours. It ought to be 3 on the person who is responsible that has to be accountable. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Larry, can't that 5 American Express account be set up so that the Sheriff's 6 Department can have a kind of a subset of the -- of the one 7 that the Judge gets? 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Sure. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would show the 10 Sheriff, Chief Deputy's, if you chose that, Chief Jailer, 11 and however many of the transport people you wanted. I 12 don't think you want to issue 80 cards, but you might want 13 to -- maybe 10, the Sheriff plus nine more, something like 14 that. And the sub bill comes in showing you what activity 15 was on these accounts. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: You get a breakdown on 17 anybody -- they get the individual bill, but you could get a 18 breakdown on everybody that has your cards -- 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, without -- 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- every month. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You know, and one thing 22 I'm totally against is giving 80-some-odd employees that 23 kind -- type of card. It would be a nightmare to keep up 24 with. But, with the schools and things like that that we go 25 to, it's different employees going to the schools, okay? 39 1 So, those employees -- you know, whether it -- whether I 2 apply for one of those corporate cards and have it put in my 3 name, all right, some employee is going to have to let 4 another employee use their card to charge stuff on. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Not if we -- not if we 6 prepay. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Hotels, I mean, can be 8 prepaid easily. And the only thing, if they need cash for 9 meals, get an advance. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We can issue -- 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We pay tuition in 12 advance. We try and get the check for the hotel. You don't 13 know until the officer or the employee gets back from the 14 hotel what incidentals you have there. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Well, we can also draw 16 travel advance -- a travel advance. We can -- we can set 17 that up. That's not that hard to do. Companies and 18 governments do that, as well. I mean, that's another -- 19 that's another way of doing it, and you have to just account 20 for what you spent when you get back. And, if there's a 21 balance due, you get paid; if there's a balance owed back by 22 the employee, the employee has to return the money. So -- 23 well, there's several ways of skinning the cat, is all I'm 24 saying. We can look at all of those, but -- but I think to 25 have one card that gets passed around, I think we've already 40 1 had our experience with -- with the unaccountability of 2 that. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: My only problem with the 4 way you're suggesting and the way y'all have adopted that it 5 be used is, unless we go to every employee that has one of 6 those cards, some employee is going to have to charge on 7 another employee's credit card. That could affect that 8 employee's credit if the County, for some reason -- whether 9 the bill gets lost in the mail or whatever it is, could 10 affect that person's personal credit, and I don't think 11 that's fair to the employees. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there a -- Larry, with 13 the American Express, can you get an American Express card 14 without putting it on -- do you have to have an I.D. number 15 of some sort? Can it -- does it have to be an individual, 16 or can you put it on -- I mean, is it even possible for the 17 County to get a corporate American Express card? 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Under the state 19 program, I don't think you can. You might be able to go 20 some other way. I don't think that state program allows 21 that. We would be -- 22 MR. TOMLINSON: Under this corporate card, 23 the -- under the state system, I'm not so sure that -- that 24 any -- any payment problem associated with that goes against 25 the individual, anyway. 41 1 MR. LUCAS: I don't think so either. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Its just they're 3 required to pay it. That's the only difference. I think 4 you're right. I think the next thing they do is go to 5 the -- to the corporate entity. If -- if the individual 6 doesn't pay, they'll collect it from the corporate entity. 7 But the way the program does work is that each individual, 8 once they are reimbursed, are required to pay -- make the 9 payment. That's all. 10 MR. TOMLINSON: I think they're -- Travis 11 bought this up to me personally just a minute ago, that -- 12 and I -- and I think it was a fair argument against that. I 13 mean, if -- if an employee -- or any charge that the 14 employee makes in association with his employment, I 15 don't -- I don't think that the credit card company can ever 16 go against the individual or -- or have any -- any 17 consequences to his credit. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: American Express -- 19 let me tell you how they work this. I mean, this is from -- 20 this is all the way back to my federal days of doing it. 21 If, for example, you're out of the country and you can't get 22 reimbursed; you've run -- you're running up a bill, you're 23 on official travel, you can call them and say, "Hey, I got 24 -- I'm going to be gone and I won't get a bill and I don't 25 know when I'll get back." They'll say, "Fine, we'll tag 42 1 that. Let us know when you get back." I mean, they will 2 bend over backwards to make sure that you're not going to 3 affect your credit, your personal credit or anybody's 4 credit, for that matter, because it is a broad program. It 5 is a -- it is a -- it is a huge program. And, they work 6 with corporations all the time and government entities doing 7 that. They're very used to handling it. They know people 8 travel a lot; some people travel a lot, can't get to their 9 mailbox to get the bills. But, they'll do almost anything, 10 'cause they -- they know how to run the program. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, if what Travis and 12 Tommy are saying is correct, that it will not and cannot 13 affect an employee's personal credit, then that -- then this 14 whole subject may be moot to begin with, okay? My 15 problem -- my whole problem with the whole thing is 16 affecting an employee whose credit is borderline as it is, 17 when you have employees like that, jailers that don't get 18 paid much, and then, because of the County, getting their 19 credit even hurt worse. That's what I, you know, don't want 20 to do. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The only time that 22 could have a possible effect, Sheriff, would be if -- if an 23 employee used the American Express corporate card and made a 24 series of charges on it, filed those claims for 25 reimbursement, was reimbursed, and then didn't pay the bill. 43 1 And, by the time all this tracked back, you're 60 and 90 2 days out, and then that employee is responsible. If Kerr 3 County went ahead and paid the bill, then that employee's 4 got a problem. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Of course, from the time 6 the charge is made, I think it's 30 days with the interest. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No interest -- there's no 8 interest on American Express. It's 30 days from when you 9 receive the bill. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The month in which 11 you make the charge is all -- is totally grace. Then comes 12 the bill; you got another month. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's the reason we like 14 American Express, is 'cause there's no interest. If you pay 15 in time, you never pay interest on it. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's the reason the 17 State went with them. They wrote their contract, which we 18 ended up going with. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Barbara? 20 MS. NEMEC: I would like to see the County 21 make a policy -- and I'm one that also believes -- I do not 22 feel that our employees make enough money that, when they go 23 on seminars, to take their own money and pay for anything. 24 I would like to see a policy implemented that the employees 25 submit a bill for the registration before they go; they call 44 1 the hotel, they get an amount that the hotel's going to cost 2 them, they submit a bill for that, so when they leave from 3 here, they have a registration check. They have a -- a 4 check to pay their -- their hotel, and that the Court 5 approve a policy of a travel advance of $200, and that 6 they -- we give them $200. They come back with the 7 receipts. I know it will be a little more work for our 8 office, but I certainly don't mind. They come back with 9 their receipts. If they don't -- they've only spent $175, 10 that's what their receipts are; then they give us $25, we 11 put it back into that line item. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You can't do that now? 13 MS. NEMEC: A lot of counties do that. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I thought we do that now. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You can't -- 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think we have to adopt a 17 policy, and I would not be in favor of $200. 18 MS. NEMEC: Whatever the amount would be. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think the state per diem 20 now is, what, $42 a day? 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah -- well, depends 22 on -- 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think you would have 24 to adopt it on a per diem -- per day, because some of hers 25 or some of mine may be just a San Antonio school and a 45 1 one-day school, which you don't want to give them $200. But 2 then other ones I have, like the two fixing to leave here 3 this week to go to Illinois and pick up an inmate and bring 4 him back, that one could get expensive over a three-day 5 period of travel. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd be more in favor of a 7 department -- that the department head or elected official, 8 say, set the amount or approve the amount that's requested. 9 I mean -- 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Mm-hmm. 11 MS. NEMEC: There's accountability, in that 12 they'd have to bring back all the receipts, and -- 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Sure. 14 MS. NEMEC: -- whatever receipts they don't 15 bring back, whatever the total is, they need to give back 16 that money and I put it back into that line item. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think the Treasurer -- 18 MS. NEMEC: A lot of counties -- 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think the Treasurer just 20 volunteered to write the policy and bring it to us at our 21 next regularly scheduled meeting. 22 MS. NEMEC: I'll do it. 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Another part of that 24 policy should be that the -- with that system, is that the 25 department head or elected official is responsible for the 46 1 timely processing of both the request for the advance and 2 for processing of the claim afterwards. 3 MS. NEMEC: I'll work on something, if y'all 4 want me to. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And, I think -- I have no 6 problem with that, but if employees start getting an advance 7 and waiting two or three months to reconcile it, yeah, 8 that's not acceptable. It has to reconcile -- I mean, I 9 don't know how you want to word it, but -- 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Five work days? 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Our worst thing is 12 schools that come up that weren't -- you don't have advance 13 notice of the school. 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We're talking about 15 when they come back, though. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Couple days to get this 17 resubmitted to the Treasurer. Otherwise -- 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If you had a school come 19 up in two weeks -- 'cause we get a lot of notices about 20 schools about two weeks before they occur. 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And you try and do that. 23 You don't have the cash on hand to give these people for 24 meals and things like that, okay, and the travel. So, what 25 do you do in that type of situation? 47 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Take it out of your 2 travel. 3 MS. NEMEC: You have two weeks before they 4 occur? 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: A lot of times we don't. 6 It just depends. Some, if they're big schools and that, 7 you'll get six months notice. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Sit down and talk it out with 9 Barbara and bring it back. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: All right. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. All right. Did we 12 beat that one to death? 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes, I hope. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Item Number 3, LLEBG Grant 15 2001 Public Hearing, consider and discuss awarding or 16 rejecting same. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What this is, is 18 actually -- it probably could have been worded a little bit 19 better. We need to set a public hearing for the next LLEBG 20 grant. Last year it was in the amount of $11,000-something. 21 This year -- and some good ways, and other ways bad for -- 22 fund-wise, is this year the Department of Justice, through 23 the U.C.R. report, has decided that the crime rate in Kerr 24 County, including the City of Kerrville and us, has gone 25 down. And, due to that, the funds have to now be split 48 1 between City of Kerrville and Kerr County on that $11,000 -- 2 or it amounts to $14,000, I think, this year. So, the 3 agreement with the Police Chief and with the -- with our 4 department, Kerr County has applied for $6,000 out of that 5 fund, and the Chief of Police is applying for the other 6 remaining amount of about $18,000 -- I mean $8,000. The 7 reason we came to that type of agreement is, he would like 8 to be able to put one of our computer terminals that hooks 9 into the County system over at the police department, and I 10 agreed with him 100 percent. It would save us a lot if they 11 pull up their own information, so that's why he's getting 12 the little bit extra on that, is to afford to do that for 13 him. But, we actually just need to set the public hearing 14 on this. We have our meeting with the representatives that 15 have to come in and give you the ideas of -- of what to 16 spend it on. It is an "equipment only" grant, and that 17 meeting is scheduled for this Friday. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sheriff, are you 19 applying for the full 14, or only 6? 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, we're applying for 21 6, Kerrville Police Department is applying for the 8. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: When do you want to have your 23 public hearing? 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's up to the Court. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there any kind of 49 1 notice period, or can it be -- 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There's a notice period, 3 same as any other public hearing. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thirty days? 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah, whatever it is 6 y'all have to go through. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: If it has to be 30 days, then 8 it's our second meeting in October, which will be the 22nd. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: 22nd of -- 10 MS. SOVIL: Second meeting in October. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: First meeting is the 9th, 12 which is not 30 days. 13 MS. SOVIL: No, the 22nd -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 22nd. 15 MS. SOVIL: -- is the second meeting. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Is that going to work within 17 the schedule? 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's fine. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. So, we need a motion 20 to set the public hearing on the LLEBG grant for the coming 21 fiscal year for Monday, October 22, at 10 o'clock a.m. here 22 in the courthouse. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 50 1 second by Commissioner Griffin, that the Court set the 2 public hearing on the LLEBG grant for 2001 for 10 o'clock 3 a.m. on Monday, October 22, Year 2001, here in the Kerr 4 County courthouse. Any other questions or comments? If 5 not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Thank you. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. Item Number 4, 12 consider and discuss allocation of residual funds from the 13 Lake Ingram Estates Road District bond and adoption of the 14 tax rate for the road district for tax year 2001. 15 Commissioner Griffin. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes. As the Court is 17 aware, we -- we -- the roads in the Lake Ingram Estates Road 18 District have been finished. All costs have been paid. 19 There are $21,946 remaining of the bond funds, and that 20 savings, by the way, is a big kudo to Road and Bridge. They 21 were able to -- Len was able to find the materials locally 22 available right next to Lake Ingram Estates. Actually, most 23 of the material came from a property that's right next to 24 it, and, as a result, saved a lot of hauling charges for 25 getting base material in for the roads. There is nothing we 51 1 can do with that -- with those -- that $21,946 -- there's 2 nothing we can do with that except use it in the Lake Ingram 3 Estates Road District. And, since the road is now accepted 4 and in county maintenance, I've talked with Bob Henderson 5 and Tom Spurgeon, and they say that we can, indeed, move 6 that $21,946 into the bond sinking fund to use for the 7 first -- apply it towards the first year's payments. 8 So, I would first -- and I will make this 9 motion in a moment after I go through this, but I'll make a 10 motion that we transfer the $21,946 into the bond sinking 11 fund. In 2002, there are two payments due for a total of 12 $29,475, so there's not enough residual money that would go 13 into the sinking fund to make those first year's payments. 14 So, we do have to raise in that first year $7,529 to make up 15 the difference. In talking with our Tax Assessor/Collector, 16 she agrees that we probably should shoot for about $8,000 to 17 cover any -- we've got very good collection experience in 18 the Lake Ingram Estates Road District. However, we'll put 19 just a little bit of cushion in there to make sure, in case 20 there's someone who is a little slow in paying or whatever, 21 that we would -- we'd be able to still make those payments. 22 So, we need to raise $8,000 in next -- for next year. The 23 certified net taxable value -- and you have -- I think the 24 members of the Court have that sheet in front of you -- for 25 all the properties in the Lake Ingram Estates Road District, 52 1 are $1,744,136. To raise $8,000, then, we would have to set 2 a tax rate of 46 cents per hundred for the tax year 2001. I 3 will make motions on both of those, but are there any 4 questions or discussions beforehand? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What -- refresh our 6 memory. What was the total number -- amount of the bonds 7 issued? 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: $225,000 -- 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- was the total bond 11 issue. There are two payments next year. One comes due in 12 February, and the other comes due in August, and they're 13 about split to reach the $29,475. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The rate will go up 15 substantially in the next couple -- 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Well, we also think 17 the certified taxable value is going to go up considerably. 18 There are several houses under construction up there now. 19 So, I would make the motion first that we -- I make a motion 20 that we transfer the $21,946 of residual funds from the bond 21 issue to the bond sinking fund. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 24 Griffin, second by Commissioner Williams, that the Court 25 transfer $21,946 from the sale of the bonds for the Lake 53 1 Ingram Estates Road District into the sinking fund for 2 repayment of the debt service by such bonds. Any further 3 questions or comments? If not, all in favor, raise your 4 right hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And, I'll make a 10 motion that we set the tax rate for tax year 2001 in the 11 Lake Ingram Estates Road District at 46 cents per hundred. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 14 Griffin, second by Commissioner Letz, that the Court set the 15 tax rate for Fiscal Year 2002 for the Lake Ingram Estates 16 Road District for -- at 46 cents per $100. Paula, does this 17 have to be a record vote or anything? 18 MS. RECTOR: No, it does not. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Any comments or 20 questions? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's turned out to be a 54 1 good program out there. Good solution. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Hope to get those 3 valuations up. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Next item is Item Number 5, 5 consider and discuss adopting an Order Prohibiting the 6 Keeping of Wild Animals, pursuant to Chapter 240, Local 7 Government Code, and creating a criminal penalty. This is 8 something that was discussed at the Texas Association of 9 Counties Post-Legislative Conference. Mr. Allison has sent 10 around to all the different courts the proposed order, as 11 well as a small summary of the statute. We have to keep in 12 mind that we -- if we don't prohibit dangerous, wild 13 animals, then we must regulate them. Which means the 14 Sheriff gets to go out and -- 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Huh-uh. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- tag them and bag them and 17 make sure they got enough room -- 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Not the Sheriff. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- in their cages, and -- 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: How many rhinoceroses 21 can you handle? 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Chimpanzees and whatever 23 else is on that list. Well, we have an Animal Control 24 Department. It would be up to them, not me. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Anyway, a couple years 55 1 ago, I know the Court looked at this at length, and I 2 thought we did something on this. So we need to make sure 3 that -- we have until December, as I recall, to get 4 something done on this. We need to research and see what's 5 on the records. I'd hate to have multiple rules on the 6 records. Maybe we didn't do anything, but I remember it. 7 We discussed it at length. It was when someone shot a tiger 8 or a lion or something. Maybe it was a buffalo. Anyway, 9 there was -- 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: One that shot one, I 11 think, and then there was also one keeping one. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And I know there were -- 14 some was some stuff before the Court a couple years ago, at 15 least. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: About two years ago. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't know. Whatever 18 happened -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We need to look at that, 20 and then -- that's my main comment, I mean, to look at that 21 before we act on this. And, then -- 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: I don't have any problem 23 tabling this and asking the Court Coordinator to do some 24 research. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: See where we are. 56 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: And bring it back next time 2 around as something we need to do. Either that, or get the 3 Sheriff a bwana hat. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Nope. Marc Allen, 5 Animal Control. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We also -- we have 7 several -- several owners of some of these animals, I think, 8 in the county, and I just wonder if we might want to, even 9 though we're not required to, maybe have a public hearing on 10 this to hear the -- 11 MR. KIRK: Judge, if I could -- excuse me. 12 I'm -- my name's Dana Kirk, and I'm -- I keep exotic 13 animals. And, I just can't -- my veterinarian, Lloyd 14 Leifeste, called me all in a -- he takes care of our animals 15 out there, and he was all upset and didn't know what was on 16 the list, and I don't know what's on the list. And, I 17 talked to Harvey Hilderbran about it, and he knew partially 18 what was on the list. Could I ask the Court to just -- 19 'cause I may have some of these animals; I don't know. I 20 don't think I do, but -- but -- 21 MR. CONNER: Mostly cats and big primates. 22 MR. KIRK: Okay. 23 MR. CONNER: Llamas aren't on the list, by 24 the way. 25 MR. LUCAS: Or elephants. 57 1 MR. CONNER: Most dangerous animal of all. 2 MR. KIRK: Well, the only one I know of is 3 rhinoceros. I don't keep them, but I know that the Smiths 4 had some rhinoceros out there off Cypress Creek at one time, 5 and I -- I don't know of anything other than this. But -- 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I know there's some -- 7 there's some cougars in the county. 8 MR. KIRK: Yeah. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Wild? Or -- 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: They're kept. 11 MR. KIRK: Of course, I mean, bobcats are 12 wild. I mean, I had a bobcat attack a guy -- one of our 13 pastors at our church was using our guesthouse a few -- 14 three or four years ago and got attacked by a bobcat, but I 15 didn't keep it on the -- I guess it was rabid, but I 16 wasn't -- I didn't keep it. But, that's a -- that's a 17 common exotic. Of course, this is a state statute. Y'all 18 didn't enact this. I know the State enacted it, so I'm 19 not -- my only -- I would like to just propose to the 20 council, just as a citizen that does -- that is interested 21 in this, that -- that I think it should be considered. I 22 mean, none of this stuff, gorillas and bears and these 23 things are -- I know of no use for this. And no hoof stock 24 is on here that I see, which is what us exotic owners have, 25 but -- I've had buffalo, for instance. Now, somebody could 58 1 characterize that as wild, and they are. I had one get out 2 on I-10 at my ranch in west Texas, and got arrested by the 3 Sheriff out there, and it took three cowboys, a truck, and 4 a -- he busted that all up. And, I mean, I guarantee you, 5 he was a wild animal. 6 (Laughter.) 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, the other question 8 I had, before we get back -- this probably actually goes to 9 the County Attorney. It appears that the Legislature 10 defined wild animals as that list. My question, then, is 11 can we change that list? I mean -- 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Oh, I don't think we 13 can. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My gut feeling, I would 15 agree with Commissioner Griffin, that if they're defining 16 that, that means we can't make exceptions to it, which is 17 something I think we need to know before we decide what 18 we're going to -- 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think the bill 20 said -- doesn't say we have to prohibit them. It just says 21 we have a choice of either prohibiting or regulating. Now, 22 I'd like to look at some of the bill analysis and that kind 23 of thing, and see what it was that they were talking about 24 in their regulatory end of it. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: They're talking about 59 1 permits, applications, licenses. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Someone's going to have to go 4 out -- 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- and do some -- some ground 7 work, which means we're going to add to Animal Control's 8 capabilities. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: But I think we need to 10 get an estimate of what that is, of what kind of a program 11 we might have if we went that direction. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I hate to use the word 13 "self-funding," but I would think -- considering our 14 experience with O.S.S.F., but I think with permits, I think 15 it could be -- I think anyone that wants these animals would 16 clearly understand that they have to pay for the -- a 17 self-funding permitting process. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: If we're authorized to charge 19 a fee -- remember, we have to send out notices for revision 20 of plats that we thought we could charge a fee for, and we 21 found out we couldn't. And that comes to what, Jannett, 22 about $350 bucks a month? Approximately? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, anyway, I think we 24 just need to get some of these questions answered, and the 25 County Attorney's office is probably -- 60 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: I don't have a problem with 2 that, but keep in mind that we have two choices, prohibit or 3 regulate. Regulate means permit, file an application. 4 Someone has to go out and inspect. You get a license, you 5 get a permit. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I notice the 7 analysis thing here didn't say something about -- 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If we don't do one or 9 the other -- 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It says please contact 11 my office for sample applications, permits, and orders. We 12 probably ought to take a look and see how onerous all of 13 that is. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: As far as the list, 15 typically, we could probably add to the list if we wanted 16 to, if we wanted to justify it, but we cannot subtract from 17 the list. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And if we don't 19 prohibit by December 1, by default, then, we are in the 20 regulating business? Is that the way you read it? 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Exactly. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Could you not -- and 23 another question, I guess, really for Travis. If we decide 24 to go the regulating route, could you not, in the 25 regulation, prohibit all but one or two of the items and 61 1 then allow a permitting process for the others? I mean, you 2 could still, I would think, prohibit under the regulation 3 most animals, and then allow permitting for several. I 4 mean, I don't know if that's true or not, but -- 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That might -- 6 MR. LUCAS: Excuse me? 7 MR. CONNER: Don't prohibit any. Just put 8 accountability in their hands. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Identify yourself, please, 10 sir. 11 MR. CONNER: My name is Danny Conner. I'm 12 big on accountability, too, and not everybody needs a tiger. 13 They don't. But if they want one, they should be able to 14 have one, if they can provide for it adequately, build an 15 adequate exhibit or pen. I've worked in zoos, I've worked 16 in snake farms. Not everybody needs cobras and mambas. But 17 if they want one, this is Texas. This is America. They 18 should be able to have one, but they -- there should be 19 guidelines. There needs to be permits. There needs to be 20 licenses. And, if Joe Bob builds a -- a lion exhibit out of 21 goat wire, he's going to get charged a hundred bucks for 22 wasting their time to go out there, and then, you know, he's 23 going to have to build it again. He's going to keep 24 building it until it's done right, and he's only going to 25 get about two or three times to do it right. If you're 62 1 going to have it, this is the way it has to be. It has to 2 be 12 feet, it has to be so-and-so gauge steel. This is the 3 way it has to be. If you want it, do it that way. If you 4 don't want it -- 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Can't do it. 6 MR. CONNER: -- you don't have to have it. I 7 mean, that's accountability. Give them the choice. Give 8 them the option, but don't just say, "You can't have this." 9 Because I don't like handguns. I don't have one. I don't 10 need one. They're only good for killing people; that's the 11 only thing they're good for. I got a shotgun for protecting 12 my house. Much better weapon; I'll never miss. But I'm not 13 going to tell people they can't have shotguns. I don't need 14 alcohol. I don't drink. I've gone my whole life without 15 drinking. I don't need it. But, it's legal and I can't 16 tell people they can't have it. You know, some people like 17 this stuff. I know it seems foreign to some people, but let 18 them have it. Just make them accountable. I'm all for 19 accountability. I'm all for permits. I'm all for licenses. 20 And, if you need my expertise, I'll be more than happy to 21 tell you -- you know, I have a -- protocols from zoos, what 22 they need to have, what they need to make. I have no 23 problem at all contributing to that. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. We may do that. 25 We'll look into it and bring it back some more. We have 63 1 some time. I thought it was useful to bring it up, but I 2 don't think the Court should delude itself that permitting 3 is going to be an easy thing to do when you're talking about 4 this type of animals. If you're going to regulate it, then 5 you have the obligation to regulate it effectively, 'cause 6 otherwise your liability goes up exponentially. So, we're 7 talking about an inspection system and guidelines, as 8 Mr. Conner points out. So -- 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think the thing that 10 may make it manageable may -- I don't know until we look at 11 it, but that would be the relatively small numbers of these 12 animals that I think are in the county that are on this 13 list. I think it's minuscule, and if -- if that's the case, 14 then it may be that we can manage it okay. But, we need to 15 look at that before we answer that question. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: We'll bring it back. Next 17 item, Item Number 6, which is consider and discuss setting a 18 price for the purchase of copies of the budget from the 19 County Clerk. Jannett, do you have a recommendation for us 20 on this? 21 MS. PIEPER: Yes, sir. Most of the time, 22 they're set at $20. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner Letz, 64 1 second by Commissioner Griffin, that the Court set a price 2 of $20 per copy of the proposed budget to be obtained from 3 the County Clerk. Any comments? 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: My apologies to 5 Jannett, because she reminded me before our last meeting 6 that we needed to do that, and I forgot. 7 MS. PIEPER: You're forgiven. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: All in favor, raise your 9 right hand. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Tommy? 14 MR. TOMLINSON: I did check on the question 15 Commissioner Williams had about -- about the budget 16 amendment for Adult Probation. That $850 for Utilities and 17 Maintenance is for the remainder of the year. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In which case, you 19 can record my vote as positive on that. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anything else? We're 21 adjourned. See you next Monday. 22 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 10:15 a.m.) 23 - - - - - - - - - - - 24 25 65 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 5 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 6 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 7 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 12th day of September, 8 2001. 9 10 11 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 12 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 13 Certified Shorthand Reporter 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25