1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Special Session 10 Monday, September 24, 2001 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: FREDERICK L. HENNEKE, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 LARRY GRIFFIN, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X September 24, 2001 2 PAGE 3 --- Commissioners Comments 3 1.1 Pay Bills 5 4 1.2 Budget Amendments 5 1.3 Late Bills 17 5 2.1 Authorize issuance of Public Property Finance 6 Contractual Obligation, Series 2001, authorize execution of Paying Agent/Registrar Agreement 7 & other related documents 17 2.2 Adopt FY 2001/2002 Budget 28 8 1.4 Approve monthly reports 44 2.5 Allow Road & Bridge to advertise for bid on 9 items approved in 2001/2002 budget 45 2.6 Discuss course of action for final plat of 10 Buckhorn Lake Resort, Precinct 4 48 2.3 Adopt FY 2001/2002 Tax Rate 51 11 2.7 Engagement letter for 2000/2001 audit by Pressler, Thompson & Co., authorize County 12 Judge to sign 53 2.8 Request from Ingram Marshal to discontinue 13 fee for dispatch services 55 2.9 Appoint Central Counting Station personnel 60 14 2.4 Presentation of independent consultant for risk management & insurance management services 61 15 2.10 Approval of OSSF/Flood Plain fee schedule 84 2.11 Renewal of VeriClaims, Inc., contract for 16 indigent health care claims administration 100 2.12 Approval of Kerr County Economic Development 17 Program, authorize Judge to negotiate contract with KEDF for implementation of same 101 18 2.13 Approval of 12th Amendment & Extension of City/County Firefighting Agreement 103 19 2.14 Approval of $25,000 grant request to L.C.R.A. for restoration of Union Church 104 20 2.15 Six-month review of adopted Teen Curfew 105 2.16 Consider extension of county burn ban 109 21 2.17 Discuss final and best offer from Dailey Wells, authorize Judge to sign contract 111 22 --- Adjourned 135 --- Reporter's Certificate 136 23 24 25 3 1 On Monday, September 24, 2001, at 9:00 a.m., a special 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Good morning, everyone. It's 8 9 o'clock in the morning on Monday, September 24th, Year 9 2001. We'll call to order this regular special session of 10 the Kerr County Commissioners Court. Commissioner Letz, I 11 believe you have the honors this morning. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Would everyone please 13 stand and join me in prayer? 14 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. At this time, any 16 citizen wishing to address the Court on an item not listed on 17 the regular agenda may come forth and do so. Is there any 18 citizen who would like to address the Court on an item not 19 listed on the regular agenda? One more time, is there any 20 citizen who would like to address the Court on an item not 21 listed on the regular agenda? Seeing none, we'll turn to the 22 Commissioners' comments. We'll start with Commissioner Letz. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't have any, 24 actually, Judge. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. Commissioner 4 1 Griffin? 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: No comments this 3 morning. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Commissioner Baldwin? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tivy 28, Dripping 6 Springs 10. The Fighting Antlers are at home this week for 7 the first time in a couple weeks against the Uvalde Coyotes. 8 And we're in town two weeks in a row, as a matter of fact, so 9 if y'all want to see some good football, Antler Stadium out 10 here on Sidney Baker. That's all. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. Commissioner 12 Williams? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No comments. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: I want to thank everyone who 15 had a role in the Hill Country Junior District Livestock Show 16 dinner and fundraiser last Saturday. It's always a joy to go 17 to that, and I'm always thrilled to see so many of the County 18 employees who are involved in that extremely worthwhile 19 effort. A good time was had by all, and a great deal of 20 money was raised on behalf of the Junior District Livestock 21 Show for the youth of our community, and I want to thank 22 everyone, again, who had a role in that. I certainly enjoyed 23 myself. That's really about all I have to say today. We 24 were going to lead off this morning with a presentation on 25 the financing for the radio project. I had a phone call just 5 1 before I walked in here from Bob Henderson; he's had car 2 trouble. He expects he'll here by 9:20. So, Tommy, if 3 you're prepared, we'll go ahead and do the bills, which we 4 originally were going to defer until after the budget stuff. 5 So, at this time, does anyone have any questions or comments 6 regarding the bills? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move we pay the bills. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll second that 9 motion. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner Letz, 11 second by Commissioner Baldwin, that the Court authorize 12 payment of the bills as presented and recommended by the 13 Auditor. Any further questions or comments? If not, all in 14 favor, raise your right hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Budget 19 amendments. We'll start with Budget Amendment Number 1 for 20 the Parks Department. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. I have an amendment to 22 add $219.73 to the Parks budget. We have -- I have a bill in 23 hand for -- I guess it's for labor and material on slabs 24 for -- and two tables, concrete tables, for $1,240. We'll 25 actually be adding to the total of this budget, but the next 6 1 amendment also has something to do with this one, when we're 2 transferring funds from the General Fund to this fund. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: As was ordered by the 4 Court at the last year, at the end of the budget adoption 5 last year, that was moving the remainder of the funds from 6 the previous year into this year. 7 MR. TOMLINSON: That's right. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My only question is, on 10 the first one, it says coming out of surplus reserves. Is 11 that the reserves -- 12 MR. TOMLINSON: We're sending -- we're sending 13 it -- we're moving it from the General Fund to -- to Parks, 14 and that's the -- that's the total -- total M & O surplus is 15 what we're talking about. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: So, we're not declaring a 17 budget emergency. 18 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: We're simply moving funds. 20 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes, sir, a budget amendment 21 from one fund to another. 22 (Discussion off the record.) 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: M & O reserve, rather 24 than budget. 25 MR. TOMLINSON: I think, really -- I think we 7 1 just -- in last year's budget, we didn't budget enough tax 2 money in this fund. This is the first time we ever used this 3 fund for -- for maintenance and operation. I think that that 4 was one of the problems. And -- and we didn't -- we had 5 talked about moving some -- some -- carrying over some money 6 that we didn't use the year before, and it didn't get in the 7 budget. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The $846.04 is the 9 remainder of the previous year's budget. 10 MR. TOMLINSON: Right. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which the Court 12 approved moving into this year's budget. 13 MR. TOMLINSON: And just never -- it just 14 didn't happen. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, do we move them 16 both, one and two, or separately? 17 MR. TOMLINSON: Either way. You can do both; 18 they're related. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I move the approval of 20 Budget Amendment and Payment Request Number 1 and Number 2. 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 23 Williams, second by Commissioner Griffin, that the Court 24 approve Budget Amendment Request Number 1 and Budget 25 Amendment Request Number 2 for the Parks Department. Any 8 1 further questions or comments? If not, all in favor, raise 2 your right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 3 is 7 for the Sheriff's Department. 8 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. This amendment is 9 requested by the Sheriff to transfer $27,673.32 from Jailers 10 Salaries to Deputies Salaries. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: How is it we we're off that 12 big on Deputies Salaries? 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's a good question. 14 When I started figuring the budget is when we came up with 15 it. It was a miscalculation in the original budget part. 16 It's not that we had more or anything else. It just wasn't 17 figured quite right last year when the budget went into 18 effect. 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: But, we were over on 20 jailers. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: That's right. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: $27,000. Isn't that 23 about one human being? One employee? 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is it exactly one 9 1 employee? 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: No. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner Letz, 6 second by Commissioner Williams, that the Court approve 7 Budget Amendment Request Number 3 for the Sheriff's 8 Department. Any further questions or comments? If not, all 9 in favor, raise your right hand. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 4 is 14 for Commissioners Court. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: This is a request from 16 Commissioner, Precinct 3, to transfer $407.05 from 17 Professional Services to Conferences. Also, I have attached 18 a late bill that I need a hand check for, for Commissioner 19 Letz for that. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 23 Baldwin, second by Commissioner Williams, that the Court 24 approve Budget Amendment Request Number 4 for Commissioners 25 Court, and authorize a late bill and hand check in the amount 10 1 of $407.05 payable to Commissioner Letz. Any further 2 questions or comments? If not, all in favor, raise your 3 right hand. 4 (Commissioners Baldwin, Williams, and Griffin voted in favor of the motion.) 5 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll abstain. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Number 5 is for J.P. Number 1. 11 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. We replaced a fax 12 machine in J.P. 1's office, and this is to transfer $129.99 13 from Nondepartmental Capital Outlay into Capital Outlay in 14 his -- his department. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So moved. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 18 Griffin, second by Commissioner Letz, that the Court approve 19 Budget Amendment Request Number 5 for J.P. Number 1. Any 20 further questions or comments? If not, all in favor, raise 21 your right hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Budget 11 1 Amendment Request Number 6 is for Courthouse and Related 2 Buildings. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: This is to replace the floor 4 out in the courthouse lobby. This amendment is to transfer 5 $784.30 from Leasehold Improvements to Major Repairs. I also 6 have a late bill attached to this to Lexi's Carpet and 7 Flooring for $1,610. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner Letz, 11 second by Commissioner Griffin, that the Court approve Budget 12 Amendment Request Number 6 for the Courthouse and Related 13 Buildings, and authorize a late bill and hand check in the 14 amount of $1,610 payable to Lexi's Carpet. Any further 15 questions or comments? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got a question. 17 The work hasn't been done. 18 MR. TOMLINSON: Part of it has. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It has? 20 MR. TOMLINSON: Out here. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. I guess I missed 22 it. Is that what we were talking about out there the other 23 day, the flooring? 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: We were talking about which 25 tile, yeah. 12 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. See -- well, I 2 mean, if that's what we're talking about, we're paying a bill 3 that we haven't even begun the work on yet, but nevermind. 4 MS. NEMEC: They did it this weekend; they 5 were working on it yesterday. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: The work's done. If you walk 7 out here, you'll see that from -- 8 MS. NEMEC: I tried to come to work yesterday 9 and Glenn wouldn't let me in. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. I'm sorry. I'm 11 sorry. I really am, I'm sorry. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any further questions or 13 comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just haven't been out 18 here in the hallway, I've been in here working. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: We had you locked in your 20 office again. Budget Amendment Request Number 7 is again for 21 the Sheriff's Department. 22 MR. TOMLINSON: This is a request from the 23 Sheriff to transfer $5,157.74 from Jailers Salaries, $269.14 24 from Radio Equipment Repair line item, $4,916.77 to Prisoner 25 Meals, $240.97 to Prisoner Transfer, and $269 to 13 1 Investigative Expenses in the Sheriff's Office. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: Then also I have late bills 4 attached to this one. It's -- I need a hand check also to 5 Sysco Food Services for $18,940.80, and -- let's see, there's 6 another one -- to Chevron for $183.12, and one to H.E.B. 7 Grocery for $342.20. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second, but I've got a 10 question. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 12 Williams, second by Commissioner Griffin, that the Court 13 approve Budget Amendment Request Number 7 for the Sheriff's 14 Department and County Jail, and authorize late bills and hand 15 checks payable to Sysco Foods in the amount of $18,940.80, 16 Chevron in the amount of $183.12, and H.E.B. in the amount of 17 $340.20. Commissioner Griffin, you had a question? 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes. Have we scrubbed 19 the new budget to make sure we've got the jailer/deputy thing 20 right? I mean, I assume that's happened. I just -- I just 21 wanted to make -- get some comfort that we've actually -- 22 you're comfortable now. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm comfortable now. 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We've got the right 25 numbers in the right slots? 14 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's my question. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My comment was a little 4 bit broader, but the same tone. Can the Sheriff insure that 5 all of his line items are a lot closer than last year? 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Oh, yeah, they -- we're a 7 whole lot closer than last year. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other questions or 9 comments? If not, all in favor raise your right hand. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Budget 14 Amendment Request Number 8 for County Court at Law. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: We have a -- excuse me. 16 (Discussion off the record.) 17 MR. TOMLINSON: This request is from Judge 18 Brown to transfer $263.50 from Statement of Facts and $926.50 19 from Conferences into Miscellaneous, and it's for the payment 20 of some investigative expenses which we don't have a line 21 item for in his budget, for $1,190. And, I also have a late 22 bill that I need a hand check for to PAK Private 23 Investigations for $1,190. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: This is related to a case that 25 was in his court? 15 1 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes, it is. It's -- it's K. 2 Hookman, is the defendant. 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So moved. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll second it. I want 5 to make a comment, though. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 7 Griffin, second by Commissioner Baldwin, that the Court 8 approve Budget Amendment Request Number 8 for the County 9 Court at Law and authorize the late bill and hand check in 10 the amount of $1,190 payable to PAK Private Investigations. 11 Commissioner Baldwin? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just think that it 13 would be neat if we could be able to -- or Judge Brown could 14 be able to pick up a phone and call one of the investigators 15 that we have on staff already, that we already pay salaries 16 to, that would assist him in this kind of thing. That's all. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: I have a feeling this was for 18 the defense side of the trial, would be my guess. 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Are we going to add a 20 line item for this purpose so that we can track that in the 21 future? 22 MR. TOMLINSON: He doesn't have any budget for 23 that next year. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd rather not. 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. Probably nothing 16 1 will happen. 2 (Discussion off the record.) 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Was that seconded? 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes. Any further questions or 5 comments? If not, all in favor raise your right hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Budget 10 Amendment Request Number 9 is for Tax Assessor/Collector's 11 office. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. The Tax Collector is 13 requesting the transfer of $512.65 from her Part-Time Salary 14 line item to Overtime. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 18 Williams, second by Commissioner Letz, that the Court approve 19 Budget Amendment Request Number 9 for the Tax 20 Assessor/Collector's office. Any further questions or 21 comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Any other 17 1 late bills? 2 MR. TOMLINSON: I have one from VeriClaims, 3 Inc., for $1,630.69, and it's for -- it's a fee for the 4 claims process for indigent health care on 9/9 of this month. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I thought that was an 6 agenda item. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's to renew the contract. 8 MR. TOMLINSON: That's the contract. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: This is to pay a bill that's 10 pending. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So moved. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 14 Griffin, second by Commissioner Williams, that the Court 15 approve the late bill and authorize a hand check in the 16 amount of $1,630.69 payable to VeriClaims for administrative 17 expenses in connection with processing of indigent health 18 care reimbursement. Any further questions or comments? If 19 not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Okay. Let's 24 move on to the regular consideration agenda. The first item 25 for discussion, Item Number 1, is consider and discuss order 18 1 authorizing the issuance of Kerr County, Texas, Public 2 Property Finance Contractual Obligations, authorizing the 3 execution of the Paying Agent/Registrar Agreement, purchase 4 contract and other related documents, and approving the 5 official statement. We have our financial adviser with us, 6 Mr. Henderson, who's gotten here this morning after great 7 travail and personal difficulties. Bob? 8 MR. HENDERSON: Just seems to happen that way. 9 How are y'all? 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. 11 MR. HENDERSON: I have three bond sales to 12 conduct today; one here, one in Gillespie County, one down in 13 Aransas Pass, and naturally my transmission decides to give 14 me trouble. So, I'm pulling out of my little girl's school 15 parking lot, and I thought I had hit a pothole, and it turned 16 out to be the transmission jerking the truck instead of a 17 pothole. But, anyway, I ran over to Ancira, got a rental 18 car. I apologize for being a few moments late, but I do have 19 dependable transportation at this point. It's a pleasure to 20 be with the Commissioners Court again this morning. As you 21 know, we're here to consider an order authorizing the 22 issuance of $1 million in personal property contractual 23 obligations to finance a variety of radio and computer 24 equipment improvements for the Sheriff's Department. We had 25 provided a memo to the -- to the Judge and Tommy -- I'm not 19 1 sure if it went to the entire Commissioners Court -- about a 2 month ago, expressing estimates on interest rates and on cost 3 of issuance. I'm here this morning and very pleased to 4 report that we have been able to do this transaction at 5 substantially lower interest rates and substantially lower 6 cost than was contemplated a month ago in that memo. 7 The first thing, and I think the most 8 important thing is that we work together with the 9 underwriters on the analysis on selling these obligations on 10 an unrated basis instead of paying a rating agency $5,000 to 11 have them rated, because we're talking about $1 million over 12 just seven years. The net present value difference between 13 the interest rate we could get reconfirming the County's 14 8-plus underlying credit rating and an unrated basis was -- 15 was less than what the rating was going to cost us, so we 16 opted to save $5,000 of the County's money and not apply for 17 that rating. Additionally, the underwriters agreed to 18 market the transaction with a -- an official statement that 19 was not officially printed by a financial printer, but 20 rather a Xerox copy. We will print a final, but I think the 21 savings on that's going to be a couple of thousand dollars, 22 or at least $1,500. 23 When we first started this process, we had 24 talked in terms of interest rates of about 4 and a quarter 25 percent -- actually, a little higher than that. Interest 20 1 rates as of last week or two weeks ago had fallen, and we 2 had produced this official statement estimating interest 3 rates at 3.8 percent. That was misspoken when we talked 4 this morning, Judge. So, we estimated this thing at 5 3.8 percent 10 days ago -- 14 days ago, and we negotiated on 6 behalf of the County a rate of 3.75 percent last Friday. 7 The -- overall, we are substantially under budget in terms 8 of our annual debt service requirements, our net effective 9 interest rate, and our total cost of issuance. 10 I do want to advise the County that one 11 aspect of our cost did go up because of the uncertainties in 12 the marketplace that are the result of the terrorist 13 activities in New York City. We had a substantial 14 disruption of the bond market. Some of the normal entities 15 out there, most particularly the property and casualty 16 insurance companies that buy bonds, are now net sellers of 17 bonds in order to liquidate their portfolios to meet the 18 insurance claims that they're going to have, as opposed to 19 being buyers. For that reason, the underwriters were forced 20 to take on a little extra risk, because they're going to 21 have to hold these bonds in their portfolio until they're 22 able to retail them out. So, our -- our gross spread is 23 about $1,500 higher than I expected. However, as I 24 indicated earlier, we saved $5,000 on rating fees, we saved 25 $1,500 or so on printing expenses. Our total cost is 21 1 substantially less than we had budgeted. I wanted to let 2 you know that that one category of expenses was slightly 3 higher than we had talked about. Having said that, it is 4 our formal recommendation that the Commissioners Court 5 accept the bid offered by First Southwest Company on these 6 personal property contractual obligations. I'll be happy to 7 answer any questions you might have. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Does anyone have any questions 9 or comments? 10 MR. HENDERSON: Hearing none, I'll turn it 11 over to Mr. Spurgeon. He'll be handling the legal aspect. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you, Bob. 13 MR. SPURGEON: To follow up on Bob's comments, 14 in order to approve the bid that's been given by First 15 Southwest Company, you have an order in front of you that 16 would really do all that; it would set out the -- award the 17 sale of the bonds to First Southwest Company at the interest 18 rates that are set out in the sheet Bob gave you. They range 19 from about 2.8 percent, if I remember right -- 2.8 percent, 20 beginning in Year 2002, at maturity to 4.1 percent, but as 21 Bob said, that comes out to about 3.75 percent annual average 22 interest cost. The order, as I said, does a number of things 23 in terms of authorizing issuance of the notes. It awards the 24 sale to First Southwest Company, obligates the County, 25 obviously, to set a tax to pay off the notes over the next 22 1 seven years, but approves the form of the official statement 2 that was -- as Bob said, was essentially presented in 3 preliminary form to the underwriters for them to be able to 4 market the bonds, and will be printed then in final form. It 5 approves the form of Paying Agent/Registrar Agreement. The 6 bank actually acts as the intermediary as you go in terms of 7 paying the principal and interest to the bondholder over the 8 next seven years. And, essentially, in a nutshell, that's 9 the essence of the order. So, it will just take one action 10 to approve the transaction. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Question. The order 12 references a million dollars. We actually -- we're going 13 990. 14 MR. SPURGEON: Pardon? 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: The order references a million 16 dollars. We're actually -- I think we're financing 990. Is 17 that right, Bob? 18 MR. HENDERSON: That was the budget. We 19 rounded up to $1 million, per our discussion, did we not? 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: No, we -- our discussion was 21 we'd go with 990, as opposed to a million. 22 MR. HENDERSON: Okay. I'm sorry, I 23 misunderstood that. That's not a problem. What we can do is 24 adjust the B.P.A., 'cause it's normal to move these 25 maturities around a little bit. So, we can just amend it to 23 1 990, and I'll discuss that with First Southwest Company. 2 That won't be a problem. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 4 MR. HENDERSON: I'm sorry, Judge, I 5 misunderstood. 6 MR. SPURGEON: With that understanding, then, 7 Judge, if you approve the order, the 990, just authorize Bob 8 essentially to adjust the maturity, whichever makes sense. 9 'Cause at this point, I'm not sure Bob can actually tell us 10 which maturity will move, but it will slightly change. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. The reference is in the 12 documents to a million. Do we need to adjust those? Or -- 13 MR. SPURGEON: In the document, they will 14 be -- we will adjust in the final order. And, the -- and the 15 official statement will certainly go to 990, and everything 16 essentially in terms of reference to $1 million will be moved 17 down to 990. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. First of all, I want to 19 say a great deal of -- great thank you to Bob and to Tom for 20 pulling us together in this time frame. When we extended the 21 deadline for accepting the bids for the radio project, we put 22 them under severe time constraints. So, basically, they have 23 performed in half to a third the normal calendar time that 24 you would do for a deal like this, and they've worked very 25 closely with us and kept us on track to make sure that we 24 1 could do this transaction for the coming fiscal year. That's 2 resulted in a little bit of confusion, as has happened here. 3 The day I got the final number on what we're going to present 4 this afternoon, I called Bob and he rolled up the cost of 5 issuance and we talked about whether we should go ahead with 6 a million, which was the estimate, or ratchet it down to 990, 7 which was closer to the actual cost. And, since there -- 8 since there is some savings to the taxpayer, the decision was 9 made to take it down to 990, and we just lost a little bit of 10 communication, but that's not going to be a problem. 11 The second thing I think we need to do, 12 technically, is to approve the order subject to adoption of 13 the budget and execution of the contract with the vendor, 14 both of which are scheduled to happen today. Is that okay, 15 Tom? 16 MR. SPURGEON: That's fine, Judge. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think, in order to keep us 18 in the right -- 19 MR. SPURGEON: Right. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- posture, we need to do them 21 in that order. 22 MR. SPURGEON: Okay. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anyone else have any questions 24 or comments? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Only that I guess we 25 1 can do this with the assurance that the Item 2.17 at 2 2 o'clock will, in fact, be in the $990,000 range, and not 3 greater than. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Right. If it -- it's the 5 number the Sheriff and I have talked about, and that number 6 plus the cost of issuance comes up, actually, to 7 287-something. 8 MR. HENDERSON: 287, 288, something like that. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Which -- which we rounded up 10 to 990. 11 MR. HENDERSON: I apologize for this 12 miscommunication. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, we are -- we've only got 14 two projects in the hopper, and one that we're talking about, 15 so -- a lot going on. Given that, what I would entertain at 16 this time is a motion to approve the order authorizing the 17 issuance of Kerr County, Texas, Public Property Finance 18 Contractual Obligation, Series 2001, authorizing the 19 execution of a Paying Agent/Registrar Agreement, with 20 purchase contract and other related documents, and approving 21 an official statement subject to passage of the budget and 22 approval of the contract with the vendor for the radio 23 communications project. 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And, as amended, for 25 the 990. 26 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Correct. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Versus the $1 million. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Correct. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So moved. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 7 Griffin, second by Commissioner Williams. Any further 8 questions or comments? If not, all in favor, raise your 9 right hand. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Judge, before we leave 15 that subject, just a general economy question. What do you 16 see happening in the bond market overall over the next year 17 or two, with the big hit that the secondary insurers are 18 going to be taking -- 19 MR. HENDERSON: Well, I tell you, -- 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- after the terrorist 21 attacks? 22 MR. HENDERSON: -- Commissioner, if I knew 23 that, I'd be talking to you on my cell phone from my yacht in 24 the Carribean, because I would be such a fortune teller. 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I don't mean the 27 1 general ups or downs, but I mean, how do you see money 2 availability and all that sort of thing over the next several 3 years? 4 MR. HENDERSON: I don't think it's going to be 5 that -- that big a problem. And here's why. Money, of 6 course, circulates. The insurance companies, which have been 7 a primary buyer of municipal bonds, did take a big hit, 8 somewhere between 40 to 60 billion at this point, and quite 9 possibly more. But, we've seen reports. Those risks were 10 well insured. And, of course, the reason that these property 11 and casualty insurance companies have been buyers of 12 municipal bonds is to provide the capital to meet these risks 13 when they come up. What happens, of course, is that the -- 14 the money will be paid to the -- to the loss holders. That 15 money will get spent, premiums will be paid, portfolios will 16 rebuild, and they'll be net buyers again. I don't think this 17 is, you know, any more so than the big hurricanes we've had 18 and the other natural disasters that we've had in years past. 19 I don't think, in the long-term, this is going to impact the 20 availability of liquidity in the municipal bonds market. 21 I think what's more of concern to -- to the 22 bonds market is just the intermediate outlook for the 23 economic conditions of the United States and what this 24 terrorist attack has done to that. I personally am not 25 as -- nearly as pessimistic as some of the people that you 28 1 see or hear on the radio. I think their job is to be 2 extremists and to be pessimistic. I don't think things are 3 going to be that bad. I think that the fourth quarter of 4 this year will likely see significantly reduced growth than 5 what we've seen, and this may stretch into the first quarter 6 of next year, but I think most people, including Mr. 7 Greenspan, are expecting a -- certainly by the third quarter 8 or fourth quarter of '02, things will be well on their swing 9 up again. But, again, all of this is speculation, and we 10 don't know what the president and our leaders are going to 11 do over the coming months with respect to responding. Just 12 have to wait and see. 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Thanks, Bob. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other questions of Mr. 15 Henderson and/or Mr. Spurgeon? If not, thank you, gentlemen. 16 We appreciate your assistance. 17 MR. HENDERSON: Thank you. 18 MR. SPURGEON: Thank you. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Next item for consideration is 20 Item Number 2, which is posted for 9:30, consider and 21 discussion adoption of the FY 2001/2002 budget. Tommy, I 22 believe you have some amendments to the budget as filed with 23 the County Clerk? 24 MR. TOMLINSON: I think the latest list I gave 25 you showed a net decrease in the total budget of $21,640. I 29 1 gave you one Friday afternoon, and another one this morning. 2 So, the items -- the items listed on this budget, on the 3 2001/2002 budget amendments, are all the items that we've 4 discussed since the budget was -- proposed budget was filed, 5 with the exception of one item, and it has to do with Lake 6 Ingram Road District, and we did not include the amount of 7 the principal and interest for payment of the debt. And, 8 that total is $29,475. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So, both the revenues 10 -- the revenue side and the expenditure side will be 11 affected. There's no bottom line effect in the latest one. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: We've already -- the Court's 13 already approved the transfer of the $21,000 from the 14 proceeds of the bond into the sinking fund, and the tax -- 15 related tax for -- to generate $8,000 was approved, and the 16 amount of the tax is estimated to be $8,000 to -- to pay this 17 principal and interest. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Tommy, Line Item 19 10-560-104, Deputies Salaries. In light of the additional 20 personnel that's going to the Sheriff's Department, can you 21 explain that number going down for me there? 22 MR. TOMLINSON: 10-50 what? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Deputy Salaries, 104. 24 560-104. 25 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. That's a reduction, 30 1 approximately $3,000. The Treasurer might be able to help me 2 with that. I don't -- 3 MS. NEMEC: I believe that that is -- there 4 was some positions moved around or something, and so we're 5 saving -- when they were moved up, they went back to the 6 entry level. Is that correct on that? 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes, one that did. But 8 we've also had a couple of the educational deals that -- that 9 came in. 10 MS. NEMEC: Okay. When it goes -- 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We gave them to y'all 12 last week before all this, the ones that came in. 13 MS. NEMEC: Okay. Whatever we were given, we 14 put in there, except for -- for the one that we discussed 15 this morning on the nurse. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, that's -- 17 MS. NEMEC: Which is about -- that's about 18 $500. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: Any more questions on -- I can 20 -- I mean, I can go through each one of these, but -- 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. I just thought it 22 was curious. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: -- the majority we've already 24 discussed. The major change I made this morning from -- from 25 the one -- from the copy that I gave you Friday has to do 31 1 with the oil -- oils that Road and Bridge could not use this 2 fiscal year because of the weather, and they wanted to 3 transfer -- or to carry forward enough to pay for that next 4 year. And, that was an amount that I got from -- from them 5 this morning; it was $8,000. So, that's -- that's listed 6 from about -- that's approximately the seventh one from the 7 bottom, where it was -- $122,000 was the original budget, and 8 we've changed that to $130,000. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tommy, what -- go ahead. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Go ahead. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What is the radio 12 equipment item, the $4,500? 13 MR. TOMLINSON: That -- the Radio Equipment 14 line item is -- excuse me -- for the payment of a lease for 15 the two Kerrville Telephone Company towers. One is $2,500, 16 one was $2,000. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: These numbers -- and 19 getting back to Commissioner Williams' question, I think 20 these numbers are dealt us from the last run. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: They're not dealt us 23 for the year. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It's from the last run, 32 1 so any adjustments that were made are reflected from the last 2 budget, not from the last budget year. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other questions or 5 comments? Barbara? 6 MS. NEMEC: I have a question. On the mental 7 health, the 10-426-104, it went from $3,600 to $6,000. I 8 don't have a copy of the proposed elected officials' salary, 9 and so I just want to make sure. Was that included in that 10 proposal? 'Cause if not, I won't be able to pay that amount. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes, it was. Yes, it was. 12 Because it shows their supplement going up from $1,200 per 13 for three to $2,000 per for three. So, it is included in 14 what was published, yes. 15 MS. NEMEC: Okay. And then I have another 16 question, but not on this. So, when we finish this, I have 17 another question. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any or questions or comments? 19 Everybody a happy camper? 20 MR. TOMLINSON: The summary that's attached to 21 this does reflect all these changes, except for the -- the 22 Lake Ingram Estates Road District. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The only one I don't 24 understand, Judge, is the deputies' salaries. I don't know 25 why it would have gone down that $3,000. 33 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: This is a change from 2 the last budget run. This is not changed from last year. 3 So, if there is any manipulations that were done, for 4 whatever reason, taking someone back to an entry level or 5 whatever, it's just since Tommy ran the last budget, not 6 for -- that's not a change for the year. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: If there are no other 9 questions or comments -- 10 MS. NEMEC: May I ask my question now? Okay. 11 I hope I never have to say this word again, but last year, 12 when we had the Nash study, the -- 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which word are you 14 talking about? "Nash? "Study"? 15 MS. NEMEC: Don't confuse me, Bill. The 16 positions that were not reclassified were given a one-step 17 increase, and then, so -- and the positions that were 18 reclassified were just reclassified up to whatever step and 19 grade he recommended, and all the others were given a step 20 increase. This year, the Court approved five 21 reclassifications. My question is -- I don't think we ever 22 talked about this. What's happening with those employees is 23 they're not only getting the reclassification, you know, 24 they're also keeping their step increase from last year. Is 25 that the way the Court intended for those positions to be 34 1 done? Or should I move them back one step? 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Here -- here's the 3 issue, and I think -- 4 MS. NEMEC: One grade. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- Barbara states it 6 well, but the ones that we did not reclassify last year as a 7 result of the Nash study, we gave a step increase. Now, this 8 year, we're reclassifying them one level higher, so instead 9 of being 19/5's, we're reclassifying them 19/6. To really be 10 parallel and to be fair, we probably need to reclassify those 11 that weren't reclassified last year as 19/5's, with the 12 proviso that the clock started running on their step increase 13 as of the time we implemented the Nash study. That makes all 14 of them the same, is the net effect of that. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They get the time in 16 grade. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: But they get the time 18 in grade from the time we -- from last year's start. They 19 get the time in grade for the next step increase, but that 20 puts all of those deputy level-slash-first deputy and all 21 that sort of thing at the same starting point as of the Nash 22 study. That's the net effect of that. Sounds complicated, 23 but it's just the fact that we gave them a step raise and 24 then we just took them up a -- from 17's to 19's, and we 25 still left that step in there, so they're actually ahead now 35 1 instead of being the same as the others that we did last 2 year. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why'd we give them a step 4 last year? 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Because they weren't adjusted 6 as a result of Nash. 7 MS. NEMEC: All -- 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Last year, everyone who did 9 not get an adjustment as a result of the Nash study got a 10 one-step increase, so that everybody got something last year. 11 And, Commissioner Griffin and Barbara are saying, now that we 12 have gone back to retroactively adjust those people's step 13 and grade, we've actually put them one step ahead of where 14 they would have been had the -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Because we adjusted last 16 year. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And what we're trying 18 to do -- the logic of that is that we're sort of righting 19 something that we would like to have done last year, and -- 20 when we got a second look at it. So, we're trying to make it 21 as though we had done it last year, which would put them at 22 19/5's, and they'd be just like all those other deputies. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If it helps our 24 employees, let's rock and roll with it. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Barbara, do we need a motion 36 1 on that, or what do we need to do? 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I don't believe we need 3 a motion. 4 MS. NEMEC: I don't believe we need a motion, 5 if you'll just give me the authorization to adjust those 6 figures as part of the budget process. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That will change these 8 numbers slightly. 9 MS. NEMEC: Mm-hmm. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. 11 MS. NEMEC: I think they went from six -- 12 anywhere from $600 to $800 for four positions. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Any other questions or 14 comments? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I have a 16 comment, if -- are we at that point? Or what are we doing 17 here? I can't seem to get a handle on -- 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: At this point, we're still 19 kind of working on the nits and nats. Once we get a motion, 20 I think we'll go to the -- if you have a specific question, 21 let's have it now. If you have a good comment, why don't we 22 hold it till after we have a motion. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or bad comment. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Or bad comment. Any comment. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I was going to say, my 37 1 comments are -- you're not going to consider good. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, I -- you never know. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. I'd like to make 4 some comments. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anytime you're ready. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, thank you so 7 much. I just think, in -- in light of the recent tragedies 8 in New York and Washington, and particularly the stock market 9 downswing and the thousands and thousands of people being 10 laid off, that, as the County fathers, the leaders of this 11 county, I think that -- personally, I think that we need to 12 delete the salary increases for this Commissioners Court. I 13 know that it doesn't do anything to the tax increase, or 14 really doesn't -- I mean, we're talking pennies and peanuts 15 here, but still, I think the fact that, you know, it's really 16 and truly time -- we talk about tightening our belts up and 17 doing all these things all the time, but it's really and 18 truly that way now. And I think, as a sign of leadership and 19 encouragement to the folks in our county, that -- that we 20 need to do that, and I'm prepared to make a motion to do that 21 if you, as the chairman of this board, deem it necessary. I 22 guess that's all. I just kind of -- that's my heart. That's 23 what I really and truly feel. That's not any kind of 24 political move or -- and I don't care, you know, if people 25 see that as politics or -- I really don't care how they see 38 1 it. It's just the way I feel. And I think it's the right 2 thing to do. It's just my opinion. I'm not going to fight 3 with anybody. I'm going to -- I know that it takes three 4 votes to do this. And, you know, I still intend to speak 5 with one voice here as a Commissioners Court. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just a comment to that. 7 One, I mean, I -- I don't disagree at all, and I would 8 probably support that. I mean, I think, you know, we should 9 get back to that point at some point to be fair to future 10 courts, probably, more than this court. I think that 11 Commissioners Court's salaries need to be looked at. But, I 12 also -- I've never been a proponent of raising our salaries, 13 and so -- I mean, I think cost-of-living adjustments, we 14 should get. I don't think we should lose money as we go 15 forward on the court, but I would be perfectly willing to, 16 you know, support Commissioner Baldwin's motion, and would 17 respect his motion. You know, I think that I still would 18 like to continue on with the community advisory board that we 19 appoint after the 1st of the year to look at our salaries and 20 make a recommendation of where we should be and how we should 21 get there, but I think it is a -- you know, basically, I 22 think Commissioner Baldwin said it very well. I'm surprised 23 by -- I didn't know he was going to say that. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Is that a motion to delete 25 salary increases for the Commissioners? 39 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move that we delete 2 the salary increases, except for the cost-of-living 3 adjustment. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: For all elected 5 officials? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir, this 7 Commissioners Court only. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 10 Baldwin, second by Commissioner Letz, that the Court delete 11 the salary increases, except for cost-of-living for -- I 12 presume you're including me in that motion? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: For the four Commissioners and 15 the County Judge. Any further questions or comments? Well, 16 I'm going to say that any elected official is always free to 17 decline an increase, if they feel that that's the necessary 18 step. So that in the event the motion doesn't pass, there's 19 still that capability to -- to decline an increase in their 20 salary. So, everyone knows where we are. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, in that area -- and 22 I just bring this up; when I was first on the court, I was 23 actually even opposed to cost-of-living increases, and I 24 talked -- I believe I talked to Barbara about it, and she 25 pointed out the error in my ways. And the standpoint was 40 1 that the County has spent a great deal of time, you know, 2 certainly in the last ten years, equalizing salaries so that 3 all Commissioners get the same, and all -- you know, and 4 if -- if any -- if individuals -- you know, if they want to 5 give the money back, I think they should take it and give it 6 back, if they want. Otherwise, it gets the whole thing out 7 of skew in the future. So, I mean, I think if someone -- if 8 any Commissioner, you know, chooses not to accept part of the 9 salary, they're certainly willing to -- or able to donate the 10 money back to Kerr County; write a check back to Kerr County. 11 But, I think the salary levels, from a budget standpoint, 12 should stay equal for the various positions as we set out. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's a good comment. That's 14 your right. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. I, you know, 16 would just add to that, that I think when we started this 17 whole process, our idea was to get the salary levels at the 18 right level, and it still is part of the process ongoing that 19 you mentioned. And, certainly, in the short term, I and any 20 other Commissioner will very seriously consider returning any 21 moneys, but I am still convinced that the right thing to do 22 is to get the salary levels at the right level, and let the 23 Commissioners, in the short term, or Judge, in the short 24 term, choose what they want to do. I already know what I'm 25 going to do. But -- 41 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any further questions or 2 comments? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think Commissioner 4 Griffin's point is well-taken. We all have the right to 5 accept or not accept whatever's in front of us, and I would 6 be guided accordingly. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd like to respond to 9 that, if I could. My motion and my -- my thinking really 10 didn't have anything to do -- I mean, we're talking about -- 11 we're talking about a very small amount of money here. We 12 really are. And that's not the point. The point is the 13 leadership role that we -- that we play in our -- to our 14 citizens, and that how, just possibly, by doing this, we 15 could send the message to the taxpayers, "Look, you know, 16 things are really not as cute as they appear to be 17 sometimes." And, I just think it's time to -- you know, the 18 tightening of the belt is a real deal right now, and scary 19 things going on out there. So, that's all. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You know, and I 22 understand where y'all are coming from, and that's cool. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any further questions or 24 comments? Okay. If not, ready to vote? All in favor of the 25 motion, raise your right hand. 42 1 (Commissioners Baldwin and Letz voted in favor of the motion.) 2 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Opposed, same sign. 4 (Commissioners Griffin and Williams voted against the motion.) 5 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Two-two tie. Motion fails. 7 Okay. Let's move on to the consideration of the budget. Any 8 other comments or questions regarding the budget as presented 9 and amended? Again, the amendments are to reflect the 10 payment of the principal and interest of the Lake Ingram Road 11 District, the state road district, and also to make the 12 one-step downward adjustment for those deputy clerk positions 13 and comparables who were recently adjusted upward. Everyone 14 got clear where we are? Okay. I'd entertain a motion to 15 approve the -- adopt the 2001/2002 budget as presented and 16 amended. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So moved. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 20 Griffin, second by Commissioner Letz, that the Court approve 21 the Fiscal Year 2001/2002 Kerr County budget as presented and 22 amended this morning. Any further questions or comments? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got a comment. 24 You can see -- I mean, it just becomes more clear every day 25 that we're members of this court how important this vote is. 43 1 We vote thousands of times during the year, and they're kind 2 of -- at this very moment, they seem kind of like -- 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Nothing. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- a waste of time, 5 almost. You know, 'cause here's the big one. This is the 6 big one. This is the one that counts. It's exiting. 7 Exciting moment. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It is. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hurry, Judge. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, I want to make a 11 comment, Commissioner. I actually get to speak up now. One 12 of the big differences I perceive between county government 13 and any other form of government in this county is the way 14 that the Commissioners Court budgets and handles the 15 expenditures on behalf of the County. You can go to any 16 other government body in this county, and none of them 17 approve the bills. The bills are approved and paid by staff 18 within the overall umbrella of the budget, but none of the 19 other entities actually see what's spent, and we do. We sit 20 here every two weeks, and the Auditor presents the bills and 21 we have an opportunity to look at the bills and we have an 22 opportunity to question the bills. And, I think that's the 23 way that we keep county government tight, because we're the 24 ones with the last responsibility, and the buck stops here, 25 as Harry Truman says, as it does on all fiscal matters. And, 44 1 so, the way that we pay attention to the County's fiscal 2 side, I think, is responsible and appropriate. County 3 government is the government closest to our constituents. If 4 someone has a problem with a road, the first person they call 5 is their Commissioner, as you all know. If they have a 6 problem with the flag at half staff, or not at half staff, 7 the first person they call is the County Judge, which is 8 appropriate. And, that's the way we stay close to our 9 constituents. I think that's why our government -- county 10 government is more responsive to the needs of the people than 11 any other form of government in the county, and probably in 12 the state. So, having said that, we have a motion and a 13 second. All in favor, raise your right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. The budget is 18 adopted. Okay. We have the next item scheduled for 10 19 o'clock, so let's do a little other business while we wait 20 for that hour to arrive. At this time, I would entertain a 21 motion to approve and accept the monthly reports as 22 presented. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner Letz, 45 1 second by Commissioner Griffin, that the Court approve and 2 accept the monthly reports as presented. Any further 3 questions or comments? If not, all in favor, raise your 4 right hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Franklin, are 9 you ready to go forward on your item? 10 MR. JOHNSTON: Yes. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Why don't we take up Item 12 Number 5, consider and discuss authorizing Road and Bridge 13 Department to advertise for items approved in the 2001/2002 14 budget. 15 MR. JOHNSTON: Good morning. We ask 16 permission to advertise for items listed in the 2001/2002 17 budget as follows: Lease of two -- or lease of 12-H 18 maintainers, purchase of a shop truck, foreman's truck, a 19 bucket truck, and a tractor and shredder. Bidding process 20 will be completed for purchase and/or lease to be accepted 21 after October 22nd, 2001. This just gives us a start so we 22 can bid them early in the process. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: You're asking for approval 24 to -- 25 MR. JOHNSTON: To advertise. 46 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- send out the bids to have 2 them returned to the County Clerk's office by 5 o'clock on 3 the 19th? 4 MR. JOHNSTON: Mm-hmm. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: And to be presented to 6 Commissioners Court at 10 o'clock on the -- 7 MR. JOHNSTON: On the 22nd, I believe. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner Letz, 11 second by Commissioner Griffin, that the Court authorize the 12 Road and Bridge Department to advertise for items approved in 13 the 2001/2002 budget, with bids to be returned to the County 14 Clerk's office by 5 o'clock p.m. on October 19th, Year 2001, 15 bids to be opened and accepted or approved on Monday, 16 October 22nd, Year 2001, at 10 o'clock in the morning. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have a question. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Question? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Franklin, when you do the 20 bidding, do y'all look at the state purchasing or the state 21 contracts as well, just as a standard practice? 22 MR. JOHNSTON: Yes, we do. In fact, in the 23 past several years, we've bought most of our trucks through 24 state purchasing. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Haven't you bought several 47 1 pieces of equipment from Houston/Galveston? 2 MR. JOHNSTON: Yes. It was a similar type 3 thing, a pre-bid arrangement with a negotiated price. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I have my 5 boy-dummy question of the month here. Lease of 12-H? You're 6 going to lease 12 of them? 7 MR. JOHNSTON: Two of them. One of them, the 8 lease is -- we've had them for five years. The lease has 9 expired. We're sending it back and -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So you're leasing two, 11 and the maintainers are 12-H's? 12 MR. JOHNSTON: That's the model number, yes. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. I never did see that 14 "two." I didn't know if you were leasing 12 "H" 15 maintainers -- and I know you don't have that many maintainer 16 operators. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thanks for asking the 18 question. I didn't understand either. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll send you a bill. 20 MR. JOHNSTON: I should have made that more 21 clear. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any further questions or 23 comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Opposed, same sign. 48 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Let's do Item 6, too, while 3 you're up there, Franklin, which is consider and discuss 4 course of action for the final plat of Buckhorn Lake Resort, 5 Precinct 4. 6 MR. JOHNSTON: I think the plats we sent in 7 were accidentally printed in reverse, so I -- here are some 8 plats you can read. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: These are ones you can 10 actually read the writing on. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: What's the status of this, 12 Franklin? 13 MR. JOHNSTON: Well, the best I can figure 14 out, the -- is Mr. Christiansen in the audience? No. He 15 said he was going to come. I guess he didn't come. We 16 approved this back in August -- in May of 2000, pending -- 17 they received the letter from FEMA stating that all the 18 floodplain items were completed, and they've never been 19 completed to my knowledge. I called the engineer that was 20 doing the work. He said they sent it in to FEMA shortly 21 after this. FEMA sent a letter back, and they wanted 22 additional work to be done, but apparently the owner of 23 Buckhorn, Mr. Christiansen, did not approve him to do the 24 work. He told him he didn't want to spend any more money on 25 the project, so it's just sitting in limbo. 49 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: You have no idea it's 2 there. 3 MR. JOHNSTON: So, it can set like that 4 forever unless we take some action. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Is there any reason we 6 shouldn't just refer this to the County Attorney for action, 7 and either with -- directly to the owner and/or T.N.R.C.C.? 8 Is that -- if it's a floodplain -- if it's a floodplain issue 9 and a drainage study and that sort of thing, then T.N.R.C.C. 10 may want to play a role. We might ought to refer it to 11 T.N.R.C.C. as well. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Seems to me, though, 13 Larry -- I'm not arguing with you, but it seems to me that 14 that is our issue. I mean, I'll tell you, I oppose it until 15 they comply with our rules. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Oh, yeah. No, that's 17 exactly it. That's the reason we turn that piece over. 18 That's the reason I'm saying, give it to the County Attorney 19 to take action on the fact that the terms of the -- of the 20 plat approval -- contingency plat approval has never been 21 met, and therefore the subdivision is not valid. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, I'm with that. 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's what I'm saying. 24 And, in addition, I'm saying, refer any of the drainage 25 issues to T.N.R.C.C. as well. Not just us. But -- you know, 50 1 because the T.N.R.C.C. and FEMA actually require those 2 drainage studies. But, we need -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's a two-prong 5 thing. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with you a 7 hundred percent. My only question in all that is, do we have 8 an attorney to help us? Of course, that's an outside 9 question, but -- 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- that's a good 12 question. 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It's a great question. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: We have a County Attorney. We 15 can refer it down to him. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's his problem to 17 find somebody to do it. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Do we need a motion 19 to -- I'll make the motion that we refer this issue to the 20 County Attorney for proper action on both the county level 21 and any other state agency. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Do you want to put a time 24 frame on that, we should ask him to respond? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Two hours? 51 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. By -- 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: How about the second meeting 3 in October, the 22nd? 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right, second meeting. 5 By the second meeting of October. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 7 Griffin, second by Commissioner Baldwin, that the Court refer 8 the issue of the final plat of Buckhorn Lake Resort, Precinct 9 4, to the County Attorney's office for recommendation and 10 action, and ask them to report to the Court on October 22nd, 11 Year 2001. Any further questions or comments? If not, all 12 in favor, raise your right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Okay. Posted 17 for 10 o'clock is consider and discuss adoption of the 18 2001/2002 tax rate. Paula? Do you want to walk us through 19 this one? We need a -- 20 MS. RECTOR: You caught me by surprise. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: We need a motion to set the 22 specific tax rate, correct? And it's a record vote? Is that 23 also -- 24 MS. RECTOR: It does not have to be a record 25 vote. 52 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Tax rate is .3521, correct? 2 MS. RECTOR: I don't have my -- 3 MR. TOMLINSON: 377. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: 377. 5 MS. SOVIL: Rollback is 37.71. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: So, it's 3721. 7 MS. RECTOR: I didn't bring my information. I 8 apologize for that. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: So, we need a motion at this 10 time to adopt a tax rate of .35 -- .3721 for Fiscal Year 11 2001/2002. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner Letz, 15 second by Commissioner Griffin, that the Court set a tax rate 16 for Fiscal Year 2001/2002 of .3721 cents per $100 of value. 17 Any questions or comments? If not, all in favor, raise your 18 right hand. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Okay. We 23 have a presentation at 10:30. We can -- do you want to do 24 that exactly at 10:30, Commissioner? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Whenever my guests get 53 1 here. They're not here. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Let's do a couple more items, 3 we'll take a break and come back at 10:30 for that specific 4 item. We'll take up Item Number 7, consider and discuss 5 engagement letter for 2000/2001 audit by Pressler, Thompson 6 and Company, and authorize County Judge to sign same. Tommy, 7 do you have any comments on this? 8 MR. TOMLINSON: I can answer questions, but I 9 don't have a comment. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Does anyone have any 11 questions? I think this is a particularly significant year 12 because of the implementation of GASB 34; is that correct? 13 MR. TOMLINSON: That's correct. 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: However, this -- this 15 one will not be in accordance with GASB 34, right? 16 MR. TOMLINSON: No, next one will be. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: The next one will be. 18 MR. TOMLINSON: I prefer to have someone on 19 board that really -- that knows our system to give me some 20 support for that, for the transition to GASB 34. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm just curious, 22 Tommy, what the value is of the letter of Carneiro, Chumney 23 and so forth, dated December of 1999, which is part of this 24 packet. Looks like a letter -- 25 MR. TOMLINSON: That's a -- their peer 54 1 evaluation of -- of the firm. The firm has an operation 2 audit -- I believe that's correct. And, that's their -- they 3 just included that to show that there has -- that has been 4 done. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 8 Williams, second by Commissioner Griffin, that the Court 9 approve the engagement letter for the 2000/2001 audit to be 10 performed by Pressler, Thompson, and Company, and authorize 11 the County Judge to sign same. Any further questions or 12 comments? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question. Tommy, how long 14 has Pressler Thompson been doing the audit for the County? 15 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't recall. I think it's 16 been five years. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Five years? At some 18 point -- and not right now, but maybe you might look at it 19 after we get into the GASB -- I know right at this time you 20 don't want to change, but if you'll go out for proposals on 21 this at some point, in a year or so, just -- 22 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah, I think that's right. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Actually, we discussed that 24 about six, eight months ago, and at the request of the 25 Auditor, because of the transition to GASB 34, we put it back 55 1 a year or so. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: It is our intent to go out for 4 proposals in the near future. Any other questions or 5 comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Item Number 10 8, consider and discuss a request from the Ingram Marshal, 11 Rowan Zachry, to discontinue the fee for dispatch services. 12 Sheriff? 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: A little bit early, so 14 Rowan's not here, but I did invite him. Rowan Zachry and I 15 have been talking for quite a while over this issue. One, 16 it's $100 a month, $1,200 a year. It's been in force since 17 October the 1st, 1994, when there was an agreement between 18 the Sheriff's Office and Ingram for their dispatching 19 services. Ingram pretty well dispatches themselves all 20 during the day, and which was part of that agreement also. 21 The Sheriff's Office does do some dispatching for them in the 22 evening hours and at night. But, the way I feel about this 23 is, it's a very small amount, for number one. Number two is 24 we use Ingram's services, especially those of Ingram Marshal 25 Rowan Zachry, because he is a State-certified arson 56 1 investigator, and we have used his services numerous times 2 this year at fire scenes. And, he does not get compensated 3 by the County for that, nor does he wish to, but he -- he 4 spends -- the last one we had out on Harper Road, out in Aqua 5 Vista, I know he spent just about a week out there with us 6 all during the day going through that to determine cause and 7 origin of that fire. At night, when we dispatch, we actually 8 pretty well dispatch one of our own guys to anything that 9 goes on in Ingram, too, because we do have that type of 10 working relationship, you know, with Ingram. Their marshals 11 come out into the county to assist us, because a lot of times 12 we only have one guy that's on that west end of the county. 13 We go into the city of Ingram, of course, to assist them, and 14 during hunting season, you know, we dispatch a lot for the 15 game wardens at times. They have the same type deal; we 16 don't charge game wardens for doing it during hunting 17 violations and that, and I just honestly -- I feel, due to 18 spirit of cooperation and due to the way the agencies all 19 work together, I don't agree that the County should have this 20 type of deal with Ingram and be charging them to do something 21 we would do anyhow. And, with their small town and their 22 small budget, it does make an impact on them and on their 23 guys. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't have a real 25 problem with what you're saying, but I don't think we can 57 1 provide -- I think we have to have an interlocal agreement 2 that we're getting something back, 'cause I don't think we 3 can provide a service that's free. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We're not really -- and 5 that's where I guess the technical part is. You know, I 6 mean, we're not really -- I guess we are providing services 7 to the extent that, at night, if a -- if there's a call 8 inside the city limits of Ingram, we will call one of their 9 units on the radio and say about the call, or our unit hears 10 it, too; we all go. Now, I don't know if that's providing 11 that type of service in what you're talking about or not. 12 It's the same way that if we have a fire out in the county, 13 we call Rowan Zachry and he comes out in the county and 14 assists us. This just seems to be one of those deals that, 15 just cooperation and teamwork, working together, we would do 16 it, you know, regardless. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: With our new whiz-bang 18 radio system, we're going to be talking to everybody. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Very easily. 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So, I think they can 21 make the argument that if we -- if we wanted to have -- we'd 22 almost have to have an interlocal agreement be able to work 23 with D.P.S. and other people, because we're supposed to be 24 able to talk. Here's a case where we just want maximum 25 communication. And, I don't know, we could probably look at 58 1 whether or not we'd need some kind of agreement, but I think 2 we could certainly do without the fee for dispatch. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: But I think Commissioner Letz 4 is right. The way the item is posted is to discontinue a fee 5 for dispatch services. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We can -- 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: You can't provide services to 8 the Ingram City Marshal without receiving something in 9 return. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: So, the consensus -- the 12 consensus of the Court is that, you know, the -- we can do 13 without the fee, but if we're going to provide dispatch 14 services, we have to come up with some other quid pro quo. 15 And it may be very general, to assist us in law enforcement 16 investigations outside of the city of -- 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And -- 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- of Ingram or something like 19 that. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I can have the County 21 Attorney and I and Rowan Zachry rewrite this contract to 22 where what we're doing is for these services. Rowan Zachry, 23 you know, as long as he's the marshal -- if he's not, you 24 won't have a certified arson investigator, but that the 25 Ingram Marshal's Department does assist us outside the city 59 1 limits of Ingram when we need them, when called upon. If you 2 want to do that. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's fine. Do that. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think we could do that. So, 5 the proper way to do this is, you all work that out and bring 6 it back. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Bring it back, just a new 8 contract without the fees attached? 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yeah. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: But you might tell -- 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: A new arrangement. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- might tell Rowan 13 that the sense is -- is that the fee for dispatch can go 14 away, but we need some kind of agreement to be able to do 15 that. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's fine. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Thank you. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Let's take one more. Jannett, 20 do you want to do yours? Consider and discuss appointment to 21 serve as the Central Counting Station personnel pursuant to 22 Section 127.001, which is Tab Number 9. 23 MS. PIEPER: This is just some more of the 24 housecleaning things we have to get done prior to the 25 constitutional amendment election. This is pursuant to the 60 1 Texas Election Code, and this appoints me as the central 2 counting presiding judge and manager, Nadene Alford as the 3 tabulating supervisor, and just -- the assistant supervisor 4 would be Mindy Williams, and then the clerks and our person 5 to telephone the Secretary of the State's office. Basically, 6 all you have to do is just appoint the first three, and then 7 the rest of them I just put on there for your information. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And this is just for 9 the -- 10 MS. PIEPER: Just for the constitutional 11 amendment election in November. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So moved. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second -- third. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 16 Griffin, second by Commissioner Baldwin, that the Court 17 appoint the persons recommended by the County Clerk to serve 18 as counting station personnel pursuant to Section 127.001, 19 Texas Election Code. Any further questions or comments? If 20 not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Let's take a 25 break and reconvene at 10:30 for our insurance presentation. 61 1 (Recess taken from 10:15 a.m. to 10:30 a.m.) 2 - - - - - - - - - - 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Let's reconvene this regular 4 special meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court. 5 Commissioner Baldwin, are you ready with your presentation? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Take it away, buddy. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you very much. 9 As you know, we have our worker's comp insurance handled by 10 Texas Association of Counties, and this year our -- it went 11 up 40 percent with us, and I understand that there's many 12 counties around the state that -- that the same thing has 13 happened to them. And, I recently -- as you know, I sit on 14 that board, and we were in a board meeting, and I simply 15 started asking the questions, you know, how can you increase 16 us by 40 percent and then turn around and start this -- this 17 huge building project? And, I won't go into detail, but 18 needless to say, I don't get along real well with Texas 19 Association of Counties at this point. And, just a couple of 20 days ago -- I don't know if you guys got one or not, but I 21 got an invitation to the groundbreaking ceremony for the 22 Texas Association's new $5 million building over in Austin, 23 and I just don't think that -- I just I don't get it, okay? 24 Raise Kerr County taxpayers by 40 percent, and then turn 25 around and build a $5 million building. 62 1 So -- and I've known Ms. Hicks for a while 2 through my association with South Texas, and her company and 3 what they do, and Mr. Williams and I had visited with her 4 down in Beaumont and had asked her to come to our county. 5 And, basically, what I asked Kathleen to do is to show us 6 how we can get good services and save some -- possibly save 7 some money. And, that's really all I've asked her to do. 8 So, Kathleen Hicks is from San Angelo with Texas Risk and 9 Insurance Management Services, and she's going to come now, 10 Kathleen, please, and make a brief presentation to us about 11 what her company does and how she can work for us. This is 12 Kathleen Hicks. 13 MS. MILLER: Good morning. I appreciate this 14 opportunity to be here. And, I've brought a little 15 additional information regarding some of the accounts that 16 I've worked on. I have a small firm. We do not want to be a 17 large firm. So, we usually work with an account, and then we 18 will work with them for several years until their program 19 gets under control. And, I have copies for the court 20 reporter, as well. And then we will periodically go back and 21 do projects again. Commissioner Baldwin had asked that I 22 bring you some information about a county that might be 23 equivalent to you in size, and I have one that we've been 24 working with, actually, since 1994, and it's Matagorda 25 County. When I started working with them, Judge Sneary was 63 1 the judge there, and he resigned to run for the House of 2 Representatives, and I've been working with Judge 3 Westmoreland since that point, and the Commissioners Court. 4 The information I have on the first sheet 5 that is included here is just information since 1996, and 6 the thing that I would really like to stress with you all is 7 that once we got the cost under control in Matagorda County, 8 we have been able to keep that cost consistent from 1996 9 through current. Now, that's not to say what is going to 10 happen in light of the World Trade Center. I always thought 11 that when the country says we're at war, that the war 12 exclusion would come into play in insurance policies, but 13 that is not the case since there's not a sovereign country 14 that has declared war on the United States. So, all of 15 those losses that occurred in the World Trade Center and 16 Washington will be covered by insurance, and the -- the 17 Business Insurance dated September 17th has already begun to 18 talk about it. It will be the largest insurance loss in the 19 history of the world, so we do not know what the long-term 20 impact of that will be. 21 The insurance executives are already talking 22 with the government about some way of helping to possibly 23 bail them out to some degree, because the insurance industry 24 as a whole is what we consider in trouble. They've been 25 writing insurance for about the last 15 years for less 64 1 dollars than they're paying out in claims, and they've been 2 recouping what they've lost through investment income and -- 3 and investing in the stock market and doing a lot of things 4 like that, and operating on that cash flow. Well, as we all 5 know, interest rates are lower than they've been as long as 6 I can remember, and the stock market is not in the condition 7 we'd all like to see it. And so you, as policy holders, are 8 the ones that are going to end up paying for what I would 9 consider, after being in this business for 34 years, really 10 very bad management for a long period of time. As -- as we 11 go into this market, the things that are going to be more 12 and more important is for you to have more control in your 13 program and to have control of your claims, and to know that 14 if you are sharing your risk in any way, that you're sharing 15 that with folks that are like you and -- and have a similar 16 kind of claims that you do. Because if you're sharing your 17 losses with someone like Tarrant County or Bexar County or 18 those larger counties, that's not what is happening out in 19 this -- this part of the country. 20 So, the -- the first sheet in these 21 additional packets I brought you today is just showing the 22 level, size. If you will look in this Total column, it's 23 how relatively level. We began at 403,980 -- I'm sorry, we 24 began at 409,482 back in '96. The cost has decreased, and 25 now we're back up to 403,980. That is because they had a 65 1 year where they had several public official liability claims 2 that were from employment-related exposures, and so their -- 3 their claims history is causing their cost to go up a 4 little. If you'll look at the actual cost where I'm showing 5 reinsurance costs, that is the actual premium dollars that 6 they have paid, and again, that's remained very level, when 7 you consider that each year their payroll is increasing, the 8 amount of values on their buildings are increasing, and 9 their expenditures are increasing. 10 And, then the first two columns under 11 Administration is what they're paying actually to have their 12 claims handled, and these kind of costs you will see in any 13 insurance program. You usually do not see them broken out 14 so you know what those components are, but those are the 15 components that drive the cost of your insurance. So, the 16 cost of claims administration, and that will increase as 17 claims increase and decrease as claims decrease, and then 18 the cost of other administration. And, you'll see back in 19 1996 -- and this is when they first implemented a partially 20 self-funded plan -- their administration costs were very 21 high, because a lot of safety -- and we had some bad law 22 enforcement exposure there, so we brought in some law 23 enforcement specialists to do some training and get their 24 jail procedures and all of that set up, which it sounds like 25 you all are already in wonderful condition there. But then, 66 1 as the job goes along, then those costs began to decrease 2 because the level of service is not needed. 3 The graph here just shows you number of 4 accidents. They have approximately 275 employees, and in 5 1994 they had 22 worker's comp accidents. In '97, they had 6 25. So, rather than utilize the safety program we had to 7 that point, which is we would go in and train their people 8 to do their own safety meetings and to do their own 9 inspections and those kind of things, I actually now send in 10 a safety representative to hold safety meetings for them 11 once every couple of months, and he holds safety meetings 12 for all the different departments, and it's a lot more 13 hands-on. And, that was really at the request of 14 Commissioner Deshotels, because he felt that it was hard for 15 his people to focus on safety when they have so many other 16 things that they need to be doing. So, we just amended our 17 contract a little bit and started doing more hands-on 18 safety. 19 The newspaper articles that are in here are 20 old, because they're when we first started working for 21 Matagorda County, and -- but I just wanted to let you see 22 the comments that -- that were made then, and this is 1993 23 and -- and 1994, and the Commissioners Court was being 24 praised for doing something to get a handle on their costs. 25 In the past, the costs have just increased every year, to 67 1 the tune of anywhere from 10 to 20 percent, routinely. And 2 you have probably seen this article that was in County 3 Magazine about it's a hard market for worker's comp. And, 4 I'm going to be very critical here and say the reason it's a 5 very hard market for worker's comp is, when you've been 6 writing worker's comp for 19 years for less dollars than 7 you're actually paying out in claims, you're going to then 8 find yourself facing a hard market. When all of those 9 things you were depending on previously, like the high 10 investment income at 11 and 12 percent is gone, then you're 11 going to start having to pay for these losses. 12 One of the other things that was in this is 13 the -- the graph that is showing how their contributions 14 have gone down, and then how their claims have gone up. And 15 it's really hard for me to understand how there's been this 16 drastic jump in the number of dollars being paid out for 17 claims. If, indeed, the safety programs and the claims 18 management really managing those claims has been as tight as 19 it should, it seems odd to me that you would have that kind 20 of jump. Now, I had previously sent you all, in the 21 packets, I believe, this example of where I compared a 22 little group out here in west Texas, and these guys are much 23 smaller than you; they're less than 20,000 population, but 24 there are now 18 of them in this little pool. And, what 25 they did was group together so that they would have the 68 1 buying power of a larger -- of a larger entity, and then 2 combine safety services. 3 So, again, we do go out and do safety 4 meetings for them and do the things for them that a risk 5 manager, if they had one on staff, would be doing. So, this 6 comparison was 1999 to 2000. And, at the point I did this 7 comparison, the results for this little group were 13 times 8 better, and Matagorda County will fall right in the same 9 picture as this group. So, if you look at that, and we were 10 comparing the '99 year and the losses in '99, they're 11 showing somewhere in the area of about 18 million, and then 12 they did this drastic jump. I have no idea what those 13 numbers are going to look like and how much better this is 14 going to be. 15 The next sheet, again, is just showing the 16 consistency of costs and the -- the contributions over here 17 are for various numbers of entities when they were added to 18 this pool. But, the cost to really pay attention to is the 19 risk management cost over here, and if you can look in '96, 20 they had 16 members, and their cost -- that was for 21 reinsurance, all their administration, their risk 22 management, the safety -- was 659,769, and that has -- and 23 the -- and that was 52 percent. In the year 2000, it was 24 49 percent, and then in 2001, it was 58 percent, because 25 that's where we saw the -- the growth in the insurance 69 1 premiums for the reinsurance during this past year. And, 2 there's a letter of reference from Culberson County -- who, 3 by the way, when I first started my consulting business in 4 1991, Culberson County was my first client, and I traveled 5 from Austin to Culberson County about six times on the first 6 little contract I had with them, but then they joined this 7 pool that this group put together. 8 The other articles in here are just news -- 9 news articles about Fort Bend County and they won an award 10 with the National Association of Counties the first two 11 years. We took their program out of Texas Association of 12 Counties and put it in their own hands, because once it's in 13 your own hands and you know that every dollar you spend is 14 your money, then it's so much easier to get your employees 15 to focus on safety and saving those dollars. Because if 16 you're not spending them in insurance and you're not 17 spending them on claims, then they're available for other 18 things, for salary increases and to help offset some of 19 those high costs in health -- health plans and all of that. 20 The -- this -- that is in your packet. 21 Innovative Safety Services of Texas, this is 22 the firm that I utilize for our safety services. This young 23 man, I always have to disclose, is -- is my son-in-law. He 24 started working for me back about six years ago, and he grew 25 to the point that he really would like to expand his 70 1 business, and I'm at the point I don't want to expand mine; 2 I want a certain number of clients, and I want to hire a lot 3 of additional people to help do those jobs. So, we -- we 4 office right next door to each other. He has done an 5 incredible job with these programs, and I utilize his 6 service with my clients. So, those are just additional 7 things that I wanted to bring so that you would have them to 8 read. 9 In the packets that we provided previously, 10 it gave you my background. I've been in the insurance 11 business for 34 years, and I've done everything from being 12 the -- in the accounting department of an insurance company 13 to, you know, being a risk manager. I've been an 14 independent agent and I owned an independent insurance 15 agency and left that end of the business back in the late 16 '80's during the last liability crisis. I believe that with 17 the knowledge that -- that I've accumulated over the years, 18 that I serve the client much better working directly for the 19 client. We do not take commission from any insurance 20 provider or insurance company. There's one small exception, 21 and that is with Met Life and their Texas Protect. They're 22 paying our expenses to introduce that program, but it's 23 strictly expenses. We're not paid by insurance companies, 24 and have never taken a cent from any provider since we have 25 been in the consulting business. It's the only way that we 71 1 can truly be unbiased in the recommendations that we make. 2 Now, as the rates begin to grow -- and 3 they're growing dramatically in some accounts that we work 4 with. We saw renewals come in at as much as a 50 percent 5 increase on property insurance, and had to put some new 6 programs in place to offset that. And, the people who are 7 selling those programs, they're going to also cause 8 increases, because in insurance, the more the premium is, 9 the more the people selling the product make. And, in 10 situations that are set up like Texas Association of 11 Counties, where they make a percentage off the 12 contributions, whatever the contributions are, there's a 13 percentage of that that is pulled off to pay for the 14 servicing and all of that account, so it's really hard 15 sometimes for those people to stand back and look at it 16 totally objectively. And, yes, it's terrible it's going up. 17 It has been too low in the past. But, in good management, 18 you would always think that you would rather see gradual 19 increases, maybe 10 percent a year or 5 percent a year, and 20 not 40 percent in one year. 21 And, it's not just Kerr County. It is 22 statewide. The entire state of Texas got that letter. Some 23 people have been notified -- as they made it known that 24 they're looking at alternatives, they've been notified that 25 maybe their rate increase will be less; maybe it will be 72 1 only 10 percent. And, I'm telling you that if, by just 2 looking at other things, you accomplish that kind of 3 savings, it still should make you say, "What in the world is 4 going on here?" The -- I don't know even what Kerr -- Kerr 5 County is currently paying for all of your coverages, but I 6 can tell you that your coverages may -- no matter what 7 you're paying, your coverages may also have big holes in 8 them, like some of the law enforcement policies and 9 coverages that are sold have exclusions in them for the law 10 enforcement liability, for auto-related exposures, which you 11 would expect because you have tort limits on your auto 12 liability, but it also says that they exclude claims arising 13 out of any policies, procedures, supervision, or lack of 14 supervision with those automobiles. 15 So, if you have a situation where someone 16 gets involved in a hot pursuit chase, and they collect the 17 tort limits on the policy, they can still come back under 18 law enforcement liability and say, "You violated our civil 19 rights because you did not have policies and procedures and 20 enforce those to prevent this kind of accident from 21 happening." And, you know, Tarrant County is dealing with a 22 claim that could lead to that kind of thing right now, where 23 a young man stole a vehicle from a detention center and was 24 driving at 120 miles an hour with all the -- everybody in 25 hot pursuit. And, of course, he ran through a stoplight and 73 1 killed an innocent -- another driver who was -- who was 2 totally innocent. So, there are a lot of areas like that 3 that are exposed. 4 There are other exposures from employment- 5 related claims that you really need coverage that you may 6 not have, and then again, you may. But, to have a very good 7 review of that, to look at everything together and to say 8 this is what you have, this is what you don't have, and then 9 to possibly go through the request for proposal process to 10 see if you put it all together at one time, then what kind 11 of rates that you might be able to accomplish and what kind 12 of coverage you might be able to get, and to also then do a 13 physical evaluation or hazard survey of your premises to 14 see -- these things are very positive, because when you 15 start looking to insurance companies for proposals, you want 16 them to know every possible positive thing about you, and 17 you want them to know that you know the things that need to 18 be corrected. And, you may not be able to do that 19 immediately, but you're aware and you're making temporary 20 adjustments until you can accomplish those things. 21 So, I'm here at the -- at the invitation of 22 Commissioner Baldwin, and I don't know how much money we can 23 possibly save at this point, but I would be very interested 24 in working for the County, and we could quote -- our fees 25 are always flat. We don't believe in saying, "Well, we'll 74 1 probably do it for this, but we're going to add a lot of 2 extra expenses." Our fees are flat. What we quote you is 3 it, whether we have more work than we anticipated or whether 4 it actually turns out to be less work. But, the -- what we 5 would charge to come in and do that evaluation and to do 6 building appraisals on all of your buildings so that -- you 7 know, that whatever level of property insurance that you're 8 carrying, when have you a claim, you can collect that 9 without them coming in to second-guess after a claim occurs 10 on what the insurance value is of that building. We would 11 do that for a flat fee of $15,000. 12 I can tell you that, to this point, we have 13 never charged a client more than we have been able to save 14 them. And, I have to preface that with, we'd be looking at 15 what you're anticipating on your renewal coverage, and at 16 this time you know what you're anticipating on worker's 17 comp. It's really very hard to know what is going to happen 18 with property -- especially property insurance. We know the 19 worker's comp will be impacted even more, because the letter 20 you got was back in June, and with the World Trade Center, 21 reinsurance is going to be difficult for everyone, for every 22 single group. We already have the officials pleading for 23 insurance companies not to gouge the public, and I sincerely 24 hope that they don't. But, we have seen in the past that 25 there's an opportunity there, and if there's something to 75 1 hang your hat on and say, well, it's all these things -- you 2 know, there was a hurricane up north, so we all have to pay 3 for it here. There's always those things, and they're 4 afraid. They're very afraid of what the future will hold. 5 One positive thing that they are already 6 looking at is asking the government to set up a terrorism 7 fund the way the United Kingdom does. They provide 8 terrorism insurance on the same basis that we do here in the 9 United States with national flood, so it's a government- 10 backed program. You have to actually purchase the coverage, 11 but the rates are subsidized by the government, and then the 12 claims are subsidized by the -- by the government as well. 13 But, you need to encourage anyone you talk to -- it's 14 something that needs to be dealt with. I can tell you that 15 the premiums were never set -- and I -- and you can tell I'm 16 not a big insurance company advocate. But, I can tell you, 17 the rates were never set to deal with the kind of losses 18 that we're going to be seeing out of this terrorist attack, 19 and we all are very afraid that it's not going to be the 20 last. 21 And, so, something needs to be done and done 22 quickly to protect governmental entities and all the people 23 that are your taxpayers that are here trying to do business 24 in Kerr County, because it's going to have a devastating 25 effect on especially small business people. And, during the 76 1 last liability crisis, the reason I could no longer be an 2 insurance agent is, I saw many of my clients who I'd done 3 business with for seven and eight years go out of business 4 because they could no longer purchase -- they could not 5 afford the cost, if they could find someone to provide 6 liability coverage. And, if -- if something is not done by 7 the federal government, you're going to see that happen 8 again, and it's going to be quick and it's going to be 9 really awful. So, anything you could do to advocate help 10 would be wonderful. 11 There's one other book that I put in there 12 that is the State of Health Care. Take that home and read 13 it. It has got some wonderful, wonderful information. It 14 is not put out by the insurance industry; it's put out by 15 the medical community, and so you have to weigh a little bit 16 some of the stuff that -- that's in there as well, but it is 17 an excellent -- there is some excellent information in there 18 on what's going to happen in the future in health care and 19 what kind of things that we need to start looking at. So, 20 please take that. Are there any questions? 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you very much for that 22 presentation. Does anyone have any questions or -- or 23 comments? Buster? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, I don't. I was 25 wondering if -- Tommy, do you have any questions? 77 1 MR. TOMLINSON: Not anything specific. I 2 just -- I would like to know -- you mentioned something about 3 a pool. 4 MS. MILLER: Yes, sir. 5 MR. TOMLINSON: That wouldn't be -- is 6 McCulloch County in that pool? 7 MS. MILLER: In the risk management pool, yes. 8 Yes. Now, they're -- they had a little health pool that they 9 ended up closing, but they are in this risk management pool. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Who? 11 MR. TOMLINSON: McCulloch County and Menard 12 County, I know, were in a -- in a west Texas pool, and in 13 regard to health insurance. But, I -- I don't know -- they 14 had some bad experiences. 15 MS. MILLER: That -- yeah. That health pool 16 was an absolute nightmare, and it's still a nightmare. And 17 they closed it June of last year, and still are not through 18 with -- with finalizing that. I had -- in January of last 19 year, I said, "Guys, you need to use this health 20 professional, Michael Janeke, who's a consultant. Our firm 21 does not want to do this any more." And then they ended up 22 closing it in June, and unfortunately, we're still working 23 with them and trying -- trying to finalize that. But, it -- 24 it, like so many other health plans, is just a nightmare. 25 The interesting thing about that is that at the time they 78 1 closed the pool, they were paying about $180 a month per 2 employee for coverage. Their spouse coverage was $159. Most 3 of them now are paying $528 for employee coverage through 4 Blue Cross, and have been offered family coverage at $702 a 5 family. So, it's -- you know, it's something the health -- 6 health, you can't control, and there were a lot of people 7 that were giving these guys some really bad -- really bad 8 advice. And, I'm going to say there's some folks out there 9 with Blue Cross that was giving them some very bad advice, 10 and we've said, you know, "Stand back and follow the dollar, 11 and you see who won when this pool decided to close." So, 12 Judge Elkins with Reagan County would be an excellent -- an 13 excellent person to talk to about that. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Kathleen, thank you so 15 much. 16 MR. TOMLINSON: Only other thing I -- this is 17 just general information, but I've -- I've been in contact 18 with -- with the private sector. I mean, as far as -- as 19 liability and worker's comp, property coverage. And, I mean, 20 in the private sector, I've -- I mean, in talking to 21 individuals, I've heard some real horror stories about -- 22 about increased premiums on -- on all those lines. I know 23 some -- some private sector people were paying better than a 24 100 percent increase on worker's comp. And, what -- the 25 comment she made -- and this is what I'm hearing. What you 79 1 said about -- about one of the reasons is that underwriters, 2 over the past few years, have -- have forgotten how to assess 3 risk. 4 MS. MILLER: You're exactly -- 5 MR. TOMLINSON: And they've made their money 6 on -- on investments, and they can't make money on 7 investments any more, so the only way they know how to assess 8 a premium is just to grab a number out of the air, and that's 9 what you get. 10 MS. MILLER: That is exactly correct. And 11 they can't lose their job for saying no, but they can lose 12 their job when they say yes and underprice an account. 13 MR. TOMLINSON: So, I guess my point is that 14 this is not a real friendly market. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think that's very true. 16 And, you know, here on the court, we've actually been 17 fortunate, in the three years I've been here, in that we've 18 been able to absorb some significant insurance premium costs 19 through good management and -- and some -- a good work force. 20 But, I think the face of the insurance picture for all local 21 governments in the next two or three years is just 22 horrendous. I don't think we have any idea of where we're 23 headed, and I think that's going to be a significant 24 challenge to this court to come up with ways we continue to 25 provide insurance coverage, both risk and health, without the 80 1 costs significantly impairing our ability to provide 2 services. I mean, we're right on the edge of falling into 3 the abyss on this insurance stuff. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My comment is -- my 5 question would be, on the evaluation -- we're running a 6 little bit long, so maybe if you have something you could 7 send to us as to what do we get for the $15,000 evaluation, 8 exactly what's covered under that. If you have, like, a -- 9 you know, just some sort of a contract or something you can 10 send to us, we can look at it and figure out -- 'cause I 11 think we do -- I mean, insurance, as long as I've been on the 12 court, is one of those areas I'm never -- I've never been 13 real comfortable with, 'cause I don't know enough about it 14 personally to make a lot of the decisions, and we're relying 15 on a lot -- a lot of agents and some of the County staff as 16 well. So, I'm -- I'm interested in looking at what you're -- 17 you offer, but I'd like to know what we're getting for our 18 money exactly. 19 MS. MILLER: Yes, sir, I would be glad to do 20 that. And, just to cover it briefly, we would come in and 21 evaluate -- we would gather all the insurance policies that 22 you have, and we would actually go through and read those -- 23 read those policies. There's some of us that enjoy doing 24 that; I know it must be a sickness. And then we would say, 25 here's what you do have covered and here's what is excluded. 81 1 And we would then say possibly you don't need to buy 2 insurance for these things that are excluded; maybe we can 3 transfer that risk to someone else that you're either doing 4 business with or -- or some way to transfer that risk, and 5 sometimes maybe eliminate it if it's not -- the exposure, if 6 it's not something that's very important. 7 We would review your exposures and be sure 8 that anything that you've got in an exposure is either 9 covered or you know that it's not covered. And, then we 10 would do an actual safety walk-through to say here -- you 11 know, this is -- everything's in great shape. You need to 12 put these extension cords under the desk, you need to do 13 these things, you need to label this. Just the normal 14 things that someone who would be doing an OSHA-type 15 inspection would do. But, we don't just come in and say, 16 "This is wrong, this is wrong." We say, "This needs to be 17 corrected," and if it's not something that's just -- put a 18 card underneath the desk, then we say, "Here are some 19 suggestions that you might use." And some of those may be 20 until you can invest the finances in it to do it right, that 21 you just put a sign up warning. Because in -- in 22 government, if you discover a defect and you warn against 23 it, that's fine until you can get into the next budget cycle 24 and actually budget to correct that. 25 And, then we would do building evaluations. 82 1 We would come in and actually measure the buildings. We'd 2 take photographs. We would issue a building valuation on 3 the Boeckh system, which is widely accepted by all insurance 4 companies, so that you have -- and furnish you with that, so 5 you have in the county all your buildings, photographs of 6 them, what their square footage is, and the insurance 7 valuation. That helps you with any -- anyone that you get 8 your insurance with. And, again, when have you a claim and 9 you have that, it stops all the nonsense about, well, what 10 was the building really worth to begin with, or what was the 11 insurable value to begin with? 12 And, then we would issue requests for 13 proposals for you, and when those came back in, we would 14 evaluate the -- the actual proposals. We would go through 15 the process of answering questions, and I'm sure you know 16 how many questions you get once you issue those proposals. 17 You're flooded with -- well, we need this question answered 18 and in this manner. We would do all of that and oversee 19 that process, and then come back to you with spreadsheets 20 and say, "Here is what we received, and this is what we 21 would recommend." But it is always your decision in what 22 you want to do, but we would give you a recommendation and 23 tell you why we recommended that. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, thank you. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have one question of 83 1 Tommy and one of Kathleen. Tommy, do insurance policies run 2 on a fiscal year basis or a calendar year basis? Or are they 3 all over the lot? 4 MR. TOMLINSON: It just so happens that ours 5 is -- is a calendar. We -- our renewals are January 1. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 7 MR. TOMLINSON: We have just -- just this 8 month, had all of our buildings appraised. And I don't know 9 if this Court remembers, but we did this very thing two years 10 ago. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: I'm not sure we did it quite 12 as in-depth as Kathleen is talking about. We hired Don Gray 13 and he helped us put together an RFP, and then he evaluated 14 the proposal. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: We didn't -- we didn't go 16 through the -- the process of -- of reviewing all our 17 coverages. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's right, but we went out 19 two years ago and hired Don Gray to do RFP's, and he 20 evaluated all the responses and -- kind of like what Kathleen 21 is talking about. 22 MR. TOMLINSON: Right. Exactly so. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Right. But we didn't go the 24 extra step that she's talking about, which is -- 25 MR. TOMLINSON: No. As I recall, we -- this 84 1 came about after the budget was approved, and we -- we 2 didn't -- we didn't have the funds to -- to go the whole 3 mile. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Kathleen, typically, 5 how long does it take you to do this evaluation? 6 MS. MILLER: To actually do the insurance 7 policies and come in, probably -- probably about three weeks. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you very much for your 10 time. We greatly appreciate it. Good to see you. 11 MS. MILLER: Thank you. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Let's take up Item Number 10 13 next, which is consider and discuss approval of the O.S.S.F. 14 Floodplain Fee Schedule as recommended by the U.G.R.A. You 15 have in your packets the memo from Mr. Brown, as well as the 16 letter and the proposed fee schedule. This is the fee 17 schedule on which I believe the U.G.R.A. is basing the budget 18 that they're debating at this time. It provides for small 19 increases in certain of the fees for O.S.S.F. or floodplain, 20 but not any radical increases in their -- in the fee 21 schedule. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The numbers that are in 23 parentheses, is that -- 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: That would be the new 25 schedule. 85 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's the new number they 2 want. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Correct. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, for example, 1a 5 does not currently exist, but will be -- will become -- 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- a number, as well 8 as 2a and so forth. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Mm-hmm. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: What they did was that 11 they ran an analysis on several counties, as I recall. 12 Judge, do you remember how many? I think there were five -- 13 four or five other counties. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: More than that, I think. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And they compared fees. 16 Not -- and the fee schedule that they are proposing here was 17 sort of mid-range. I mean, there were some counties that had 18 higher fees. A few counties had smaller fees. And then they 19 took these numbers and plugged them into their budget, their 20 known costs, to try to figure out where they were going to -- 21 you know, how much of the -- of their shortfall it would 22 cover. And, they ran several cases, I think, on that. Am I 23 right on that? Ran several cases, four or five different 24 counties that you were -- 25 MR. BARRON: I believe it was more than that. 86 1 I think it was 10 -- 10 or 12, something like that. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. And this was -- 3 this is the -- the last version that you have currently in 4 your budget -- 5 MR. BARRON: Yes. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- shows -- reflects 7 this fee schedule. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: I believe that item -- the 9 item labeled 2a has a typo in it. It says Application for 10 New Licensed O.S.S.F. less than 500 gallons. That should be 11 greater than 500 gallons. 12 MR. BARRON: I don't have a copy of what 13 you're looking at. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: 'Cause it would be the same as 15 1a if it was less than, so I'm sure, since it's under 2, it 16 should be greater than. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question I have is the -- 18 is Number 3, Application for Repairing a Licensed O.S.S.F. I 19 mean, I guess that's an application to repair and keep it 20 licensed. 21 MR. BARRON: Yes, sir. If they needed -- if 22 they have an unlicensed system, we usually don't get them -- 23 repair them. They have to be brought up to -- to today's 24 standards, because if -- if it's an unlicensed system and 25 it's failed, then we feel it has to be brought up to today's 87 1 standards and be licensed at today's standards,, so we 2 don't -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How do you define "repair" 4 then? 5 MR. BARRON: Repair can only be -- only be 6 done on a licensed system, and it's -- if something needs to 7 happen to that -- to a licensed system, or if it has a -- 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: A crushed drainfield or 9 whatever. 10 MR. BARRON: -- a crushed drainfield, or the 11 tank's leaking or something, they can't go in and fix the 12 tank itself. 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: To do the reinspection, 14 do the -- the paperwork and reinspection on that is what 15 you're talking about on a repair. That's where the system 16 actually has a component that you can repair. The tank 17 cracks or it starts leaking. 18 MR. BARRON: A lot of the older systems 19 have -- have a tank that has two -- two portions to it, like 20 someone said Eddie Taylor makes there in Center Point, and 21 the center ring will go bad and it will leak out from that 22 area. They'll go in, take the lid off of it, and then clean 23 that crack out and seal it again where it won't leak any 24 more. That would be an example of repair to a licensed 25 system. 88 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You say you -- I guess, 2 looking -- I mean, I'm looking at this. It seems like 3 it's -- it's almost a disincentive, in a way. If you have an 4 unlicensed system, our fee structure is making it so you let 5 it limp along rather than try to license and fix it so it's 6 more efficient. I mean, 'cause it's -- we're making the 7 fees -- it's getting pretty expensive to -- to get a licensed 8 system. If you have an unlicensed system, which the majority 9 of them in the county are right now, it's just -- it seems 10 like we're not encouraging people to upgrade and fix their 11 systems. We're kind of, you know, penalizing them. And it 12 just seems like we're going into -- the effect should be to 13 improve systems, not deter people from, you know, bringing 14 them into compliance. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Well, the most -- the 16 most cost to the program, no matter who's -- the most cost to 17 the program is when you are starting from scratch to build a 18 new system. I mean, it's just because that's where you have 19 to have an evaluation -- you have to have a site evaluation, 20 as well as inspection and repair -- or not the inspection and 21 repair. You have to do inspections during construction and 22 that kind of thing. So, you -- you have the most cost when 23 you're dealing with a new system. If you're repairing a 24 system, and even if it's an unlicensed system, you know, the 25 work required is not as great, because when they discover 89 1 that it's unlicensed, there's not as much personnel time 2 spent, not as much office time spent, 'cause, you know, you 3 got -- it falls into having an updated system. If you're 4 repairing it, then you've just got to inspect the repaired 5 part of it. So, it's -- and, actually, the fees are based 6 on trying to recover the costs associated with that, as much 7 as -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And that's the reason I 10 think you see the fee structure the way it is. No matter 11 relatively where they fall, I think you're going to always 12 see that the new system is going to have the highest cost for 13 the program. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Tell me, what would 15 the fee be for a person with an unlicensed system who came to 16 you seeking to make application to repair his system and 17 become a licensed system? What would the fee structure be? 18 MR. BARRON: If they came with an unlicensed 19 system, they would have to pay to get the whole system 20 licensed, so it would be the Number 1 there, depending on the 21 gallons per day, with $200 to get a license. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: $200 plus the 23 application for repairing, or just the $200? 24 MR. BARRON: Just the $200. And that would -- 25 that would encompass all the -- the inspections that we go 90 1 out and do, which would require a couple of them on an 2 unlicensed system. The number we use is about one in 400 3 unlicensed systems meet the requirements of today's standards 4 to be licensed. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How many? 6 MR. BARRON: Without upgrades, one in 400. 7 That's a ballpark. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I thought -- and we've 9 done this as kind of an incentive, I understand. I thought 10 that we were going down a road that would take us to -- if a 11 system was -- if it's in compliance, it's okay to keep it 12 there. If it's not polluting and it's in compliance, you can 13 keep it an unlicensed system. But what you're saying here, 14 by these rules, unless I'm misunderstanding you, is that 15 the -- if there's an unlicensed system that's working fine, 16 that needs -- that has -- a cement truck drove over one line 17 and crushed one line, you're having to go in and redo that 18 whole system rather than fix it, rather than fix the one 19 little component that may be broken. Am I understanding the 20 rules right, and the fee structure? 21 MR. BARRON: Somewhat. I think the problem 22 that -- and the question I ask -- that I'm asked more by 23 individuals that come to me with that question, if it's 24 working, what's our definition of working? Most people's 25 definition is, is it taking the -- the black water and the 91 1 gray water out of the house where they don't have to deal 2 with it any more. We go a little bit further and say that 3 it's actually treating that water; it's getting rid of all 4 the -- all the microbes and everything in it that can 5 contaminate the groundwater. The only way -- the only method 6 that I know of to insure that, and it might or it might not, 7 is to go by the state standards. They say that if we build 8 them to these standards, then we're almost certain that there 9 will be no groundwater contamination. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: But I think, under the 11 case -- the way the rules are written, both T.N.R.C.C. and 12 Kerr County rules, we give some latitude to our Designated 13 Representative, who is us. We give some latitude to make a 14 judgment call on that. If it's a system where -- where, 15 literally, the drainfield is -- has had a crushed line in it, 16 notwithstanding the fact that the tank may be a proper size 17 for licensing, you don't license the system, but say, "Go fix 18 the drainfield." As long as you've got the proper size tank 19 and all that sort of thing, go do it. And we've given him 20 that flexibility. 21 MR. BARRON: And the -- one of those 22 unlicensed system scenarios, we let them use as much of the 23 old system as they can that's still functioning properly, 24 that will meet the soil and -- and other criteria in the 25 rules. 92 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: You've got to remember, 2 on the fee structure, where we came from on this. We were 3 told by T.N.R.C.C. that the T.N.R.C.C. expectation is that 4 the fees will cover costs of the program, and we charged our 5 Designated Representative to go try to build that kind of a 6 fee schedule. Actually, what U.G.R.A. did was -- was they 7 said, "We will eat part of the enforcement piece of this and 8 try to make these fees cover the real costs associated with 9 putting in and repairing systems." And, so, some of the 10 follow-up -- the 40 percent, I think, that was mentioned in 11 one of the letters of manpower is actually on putting cases 12 together and that kind of thing that are outside of this 13 rule. And so they, in essence, are eating that as a part of 14 the follow-up enforcement activity, and this is the schedule 15 that comes as close as they can make it to covering the cost 16 of the program. And, they have cut those down in some cases 17 a little bit, 'cause they thought to really cover all the 18 costs would drive the cost too high -- drive the prices too 19 high. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't have a real 21 problem; I'm just making sure we going in the right direction 22 with the fee structure. It's getting to the onerous point. 23 I have two more questions. Septic License Search. This 24 information is all public record, so they can go in and check 25 it themselves for free? 93 1 MR. BARRON: Yes, sir, we have it in there. 2 They can come in and do it themselves also. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The $10 is if they ask you 4 to do it? 5 MR. BARRON: Yes. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the other one is on -- 7 actually, I guess it relates to both of them. It's come up a 8 couple of times, and about to come up again, I think. Does 9 the County pay these fees? If the County does have property 10 with septic and has some things -- you know, various things, 11 are we subject to paying the fees? In the one that's coming 12 up right now, we have a floodplain determination Stuart and I 13 have been talking about on Flat Rock, and there's an 14 application fee -- or I mean the fee application pending. 15 And, it's -- it came up once -- I think twice before since 16 I've been on the court, that U.G.R.A. in the past has wanted 17 us to pay the fee, and I think then they waived it finally 18 last time with the floodplain. And, I just think it needs to 19 be clear between us if we pay it or don't pay it. Doesn't 20 make any difference to me. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No would be a good 22 answer. 23 (Laughter.) 24 MR. BARRON: I don't know. I have a little 25 trouble answering the question. I don't feel that -- that 94 1 I'll be able to answer it and be able to stand behind 2 whatever answer I give you. So -- 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: I guess the Court could grant 4 itself a variance if we needed to. 5 MR. BARRON: Yes. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. And 7 should. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I guess I have one 9 question on the expedite fee. You charge $100 to do it 10 within 5 working days, right? Or -- yeah, five working days 11 or more, I would assume. If I want that done more quickly 12 than that, it would cost double that amount of money? 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah, we discussed that 14 in one of the meetings we had. That's a priority issue. 15 Usually what happens is -- is that -- is that these are 16 usually on properties that you have a very anxious buyer or 17 seller; it's on the more expensive properties, usually, not 18 the less expensive properties. And somebody says, "Well, I 19 want to close this thing next week, by golly. I don't care 20 what it costs." Okay. If you want that kind of priority, 21 then you're going to have to pay for it. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That -- 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Because you -- you take 24 people out of the line to move them -- 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 95 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- up in priority, and 2 so it's a -- if you want it, you pay for it. I don't think 3 double is bad. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Only question I have in 5 regards -- and I disagree with all that. But, only question 6 I have on this particular schedule here is -- is the 1a and 7 2a. The way I read it, 1a is new license for less than 8 500 gallons. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That should be greater 10 than. 11 MR. BARRON: That should be greater than. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So it's greater than, 13 okay. And, the 2a is greater than. What is the difference 14 between 1 and 2? 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: 1a is less than. 1a is -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- is left the way it is, and 18 2a -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what I'm 20 thinking. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- 2a should be greater than. 22 MR. BARRON: Both of them should be greater 23 than. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 1a is less than, 2a is 25 greater than. 96 1 MR. BARRON: You're asking the -- the 2 difference in the $50 fee between 1a and 1? 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: No. No. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, I'm just trying to 5 establish what -- what we're saying here -- 6 MR. BARRON: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- to begin with, and 8 we're there now. 1a is less than 500, and 2a is greater than 9 500. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Right. 11 MR. BARRON: Yes, sir. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But you double -- I 13 mean, what do you get for that -- doubling the price on that? 14 MR. BARRON: Most of those -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm a property owner, 16 and I have -- I have two pieces of property. On one piece of 17 property, I have a tank that's less than 500, and then on 18 this piece of property over here, it's greater than 500. 19 You're going to come out there and inspect both of them. 20 What do I get differently on the greater than 500? 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: My understanding, 22 Commissioner, is that 500 g.p.d. break is really the 23 difference between a residential and a commercial system. 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It's gallons per day. 25 It's not the capacity of a tank. 97 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It's how many gallons 3 per day can you process through the system. And, 285 makes 4 the distinction that if it's more than 500 gallons a day, 5 you've got to go with a commercial -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is our way of 7 controlling commercial? 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, it's passing on 9 additional costs to commercial, as opposed to residential. 10 Residential is the lower number, the 1 or the 2. The 11 commercial is the 1a or the 2a. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My related question to 15 that comment is, why is there a distinction if there's a 16 maintenance contract? Why add a different licensing fee to 17 that? What I can envision happening -- 'cause we -- in many 18 areas where there are subdivisions going in, it takes an 19 aerobic system. I can just hear it already. They're going 20 to say, "Well, they're making me do an aerobic system so I 21 have to pay a bigger fee for the licence there." 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Again, that's because 23 if you look at the cost involved in the program, what the 24 D.R. and his parent organization have to do requires more 25 work for aerobic systems, because they have to file the 98 1 report, they have to get -- they have to get copies of the 2 management, they have to certify that the system, indeed, has 3 been inspected. So, it's -- again, it's -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It's, where is the work 6 required? It's not -- if it were something that we could use 7 as an incentive, it would be great, but that's not the way 8 the program is designed. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, there is additional 10 work for the aerobic system. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: There's additional work 12 for an aerobic system. If it's continued -- 13 MR. BARRON: They have to carry a maintenance 14 contract for the life of the system, and U.G.R.A. or whoever 15 is doing monitoring of it has to make sure that they have a 16 valid maintenance contract for -- until the system is -- is 17 disposed of. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're talking about -- 19 now, I mean, I want to be real here. I mean, I own one of 20 them and I participate in that. I'm behind in renewing my 21 contract, and I may get way behind if you make me mad here, 22 but you simply receive a form from my engineer that says that 23 it's been paid. That's all there is to it. You don't charge 24 a fee to receive a form to file away, do you? 25 MR. BARRON: We receive that -- the initial 99 1 form, which is the initial contract for one year. Then three 2 times a year, we have to receive their -- their report. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I know, but all you're 4 doing is receiving a piece of paper. Please don't call that 5 work. That's why -- I mean, I'm not fussing at you. 6 Don't -- don't misunderstand me, but I -- I have a hard time 7 relating to that being considered work, and charging people 8 for it when you receive a piece of paper from Charlie 9 what's-his-name down here on Water Street, and you file it 10 away. That's not work. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think the new 285 12 requires you to do more than that now. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: File it in two 14 different places, maybe, or something like that. 15 MR. BARRON: Well, I think the ones that send 16 in the aerobic forms are not the ones that -- we're not 17 targeting them. It's the people we have to end up taking to 18 court and sending them numerous letters. If they're -- if 19 they're behind, then we send them -- we have to send them a 20 certified mail, at the County Attorney's request. If you get 21 behind, if you -- you know, two or three times, you've almost 22 paid $25 or $30 just in the mail fee itself to send them the 23 letter that says, hey, we need to get -- you need to get on 24 top of your -- and get your contract. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I've got your 100 1 letters before. 2 MR. BARRON: So -- and it's just more 3 paperwork to keep up with. And, like I said, it never -- 4 it's never going to stop until that system's terminated. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. I just wanted to 6 say receiving a piece of paper and filing it away is not -- 7 please don't consider that work. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other questions? Do we 9 have a motion to approve the fee schedule as presented? 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I'll move. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 13 Griffin, second by Commissioner Williams, that the Court 14 approve the O.S.S.F. and floodplain fee schedule as presented 15 by our Designated Representative. Any further questions or 16 comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 17 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Reluctant "aye." 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Item Number 22 11, consider and discuss renewal of contract with VeriClaims, 23 Inc. for Indigent Health claims administration, subject to 24 approval by the County Attorney. This is pretty 25 straightforward. Does anyone have any questions or comments 101 1 regarding renewal of this? It has been recommended by the 2 Auditor that we do so for a two-year period. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner Letz, 6 second by Commissioner Griffin, that the Court approve 7 renewal of the contract for VeriClaims, Inc., for indigent 8 health claims administration, subject to approval by the 9 County Attorney. Any further questions or comments? If not 10 all in favor, raise your right hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Item Number 15 12, consider and discuss approval of the Economic Development 16 Program, and authorize the County Judge to negotiate contract 17 with the Kerr Economic Development Foundation for 18 implementation of same. We discussed this about a month ago. 19 This is a very bare-bones program which tracks the statute. 20 It has been reviewed by our former Assistant County Attorney, 21 Travis Lucas, who says that it meets all the requirements of 22 the statute. What I'm asking is that we adopt this, and then 23 we can contract with KEDF to implement it on behalf of the 24 County. 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So moved. 102 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any questions? 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So moved. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll second. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 5 Griffin, second by Commissioner Williams, that the Court 6 approve the Kerr County Economic Development Program and 7 authorize County Judge to negotiate a contract with the Kerr 8 Economic Development Foundation for implementation of the 9 Kerr County Economic Development Program. Questions? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Item Number 3, Judge, 11 method of accomplishing the program. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Mm-hmm. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: These are just 14 alternatives; is that correct? 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's correct. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Because we don't have 17 any Kerr County employees -- 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's right. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- that could do that. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's straight out of the 21 statute. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Bill, what was your 24 question on Item 3? 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: These are just alternatives. 103 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Looks like a pretty 2 good job condensing that down to a nice one-pager. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Small type. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Requirement of the law. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any questions? If not, all in 6 favor, raise your right hand. 7 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Opposed, same sign. 9 (No response.) 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Item Number 11 13, consider and discuss approval of 12th Amendment and 12 Extension of the City/County Firefighting Agreement. This is 13 the -- 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And authorize County 15 Judge to sign same. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Right. This is the document 17 that increases our contribution to the City for payment of 18 the -- their services in firefighting up to $100,000, per the 19 discussions in the budget. Anyone have any questions or 20 comments? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd like to make a 22 motion that we approve. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 25 Baldwin, second by Commissioner Letz, that the Court approve 104 1 the 12th Amendment and Extension of City/County Firefighting 2 Agreement and authorize County Judge to sign same. Any 3 further questions or comments? If not, all in favor, raise 4 your right hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Item Number 9 14, consider and discuss approval of $25,000 grant request to 10 the Lower Colorado River Authority for restoration of the 11 Union Church, and authorize County Judge to sign and submit 12 the grant request. I've been requested to do this by the 13 Historical Commission to attempt to get some funds from the 14 L.C.R.A. for further renovation of the Union Church. Pretty 15 straightforward. Does anyone have any questions or comments? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a question. 17 With regard to the notation in the middle of the application 18 about $5,000 or more requires a minimum 20 percent match. Is 19 that a match of dollars or match of income, or match of both? 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: It can be either, and they -- 21 they far surpass the in-kind, because they actually have some 22 money in the bank if they need to do actual dollars. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, thank you. 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I move that we approve 25 the grant request and authorize County Judge to sign same. 105 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 3 Griffin, second by Commissioner Baldwin, that the Court 4 approve a $25,000 grant request for Lower Colorado River 5 Authority for restoration of Union Church, and authorize 6 County Judge to sign and submit such grant request. Any 7 further questions or comments? If not, all in favor, raise 8 your right hand. 9 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Opposed, same sign. 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Item Number 13 15 is consider and discuss 6-month review of the adopted Teen 14 Curfew. Sheriff Hierholzer. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's actually Jonathan's 16 deal; I believe he put it on there. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're the one doing the 18 update. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Oh, darn. Very quickly, 20 what it amounts to, some of the stats that we have, for a 21 year's period of time prior to the enacting of the curfew, 22 from April of 2000 to April of 2001, the Sheriff's Office 23 dealt with 101 juveniles. Okay. I could not tell you 24 exactly what time of day those were -- were dealt with during 25 the -- each of those encounters. I did not go that in depth 106 1 into doing it. We were counting case files on number of 2 cases we've actually dealt with. In the time since April 1st 3 of 2001, we have dealt with 102 juveniles, so you're talking 4 six months, we've dealt with just about what we did for the 5 whole year before. Actually, one juvenile more, which is a 6 drastic increase, but we've had a drastic increase in a lot 7 of the juvenile stuff. And, most of these were not dealt 8 with during the curfew times. During the curfew times, there 9 were a number of curfew violations, whether they be warning 10 or whether it be actual citations. We have written a total 11 of 19. Of those 19, we had -- 13 of them were warnings that 12 we wrote the juveniles. Six of them were actually citations 13 that we filed. And, so, there's your stats on what we've 14 done. 15 Now, in reality, I feel this program has 16 worked excellent in the county. We did have one 17 establishment out in the county that we were seriously 18 having problems with, that had juveniles in there way past 19 the curfew times. We were having to deal with them. We 20 ended up writing actual citations to the establishment 21 owner, which the curfew calls for that we can do. And, 22 since that time, the establishment has gone out of business 23 and sold, so it's solved. I feel it did play a part in 24 solving the serious problem that we were having with 25 juveniles congregating. I feel that the number of kids that 107 1 we're dealing with during the hours of the curfew has gone 2 down. I think it's giving the parents -- at least me, for 3 one -- a little bit more leverage in getting our own kids to 4 stay in and get them in at certain times before the curfew 5 hours actually take effect. And, my personal opinion of it 6 is -- as you can tell, 19 total citations written, only six 7 of those actually being ones that they had to show up in 8 court for. The other 13, we just called parents, we gave 9 them a written citation or a written warning and released 10 them to their parents and explained the consequences to 11 their parents. 12 The establishments around pretty well have 13 been very cooperative with us, except for the one we were 14 having problems with. I know most of them, especially like 15 Crider's or different places where we always had a lot of 16 teenagers hanging out that would fit into the curfew ages, 17 were making announcements during their activities that there 18 is a teenage curfew in Kerr County; you know, teenagers 19 under this age must leave at certain times. We saw that at 20 Quiet Valley, we saw that at Crider's and several different 21 ones, and I think it has definitely helped us. We haven't 22 had the problem, and yet we haven't had to actually write, 23 as you can tell, that many citations involving it. It's 24 been an excellent tool for us, and I think an excellent tool 25 for parents and for the establishments. 108 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Have you had any 2 complaints of people that thought they were being harassed, 3 or from parents saying that they -- 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I have not had any. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Other than those cited, 6 probably, would always -- 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Really, we haven't even 8 had any from them. I have not had any from parents at all, 9 to my knowledge, that have complained, even those that were 10 cited. We had some confusion at first, you might say, with 11 Crider's over one deal where we gave them blank copies of 12 the -- of the warnings that we would use. We gave them two 13 just so that they were really aware of everything, and 14 somehow, in communications, it got turned around, even though 15 they weren't filled out. But, one of the co-owners or owners 16 of Crider's thought we had actually written them a citation, 17 when all we were doing was handing them a copy of stuff that 18 they could use, 'cause it sets out all the guidelines on the 19 back of our forms. And then the one establishment that we 20 actually wrote citations to. Now -- 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sheriff, of the six, 22 how many were repeat violators, if any? 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't believe any of 24 those were. Just a minute. Okay. Actually, of those six, 25 we -- one of those, we have a deal -- a checkmark where we 109 1 check in these actual citations whether they were released 2 with a warning or whatever, and one of the six, I just 3 noticed one of the checks we did on it was that the -- the 4 minor was released to a parent or guardian with counseling, 5 which means he didn't ever have to show up in court, either. 6 Sometimes we just give them warnings, but out of the ones -- 7 the five that had to actually go to court, none were repeat 8 offenders. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, you think we need to 10 continue it? 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes, I do. I think it's 12 really been a good move. After all the -- the initial deal 13 that -- about rights and taking things away, I really think 14 it's been of very good benefit to -- to the county at this 15 point. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other questions of the 17 Sheriff on the review of the teen curfew? Thank you. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Thank you. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Next item, and last one this 20 morning, is Item Number 16, consider and discuss extension of 21 Kerr County burn ban. This is simply on here out of an 22 abundance of caution. If there's anyone here who believes we 23 need to extend the burn ban, speak now or forever hold your 24 peace. Or we simply let this one go by, and it will expire 25 today -- 110 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It did this morning at 2 7 o'clock. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: So, as of now, there is no 4 burn ban. Okay. We will stand in recess until 2 o'clock 5 this afternoon. 6 (Recess taken from 11:47 a.m. to 2:00 p.m.) 7 - - - - - - - - - - 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's 2 o'clock in the 9 afternoon on Monday, September 24, Year 2001. We will 10 reconvene this regular special session of the Kerr County 11 Commissioners Court. Before we take up the item that we're 12 considering this afternoon, Commissioner Baldwin has 13 something he wants to announce. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. I had a 15 phone call a few minutes ago, and I'm sure everyone is aware 16 of the benefit for the Mooney Aircraft employees, but they 17 called especially to invite the Commissioners Court to be 18 there. It's this coming Saturday, the 29th, from 12 noon 19 until 6:00 at Kerrville Aviation hangar. There's going to be 20 four bands, and the dinnertime clowns will there be there for 21 the childrens. Eight barbecue teams will be there. They're 22 planning on feeding somewhere between 600 and 800 people. 23 So, it's -- and it's free of charge, and it's -- and what 24 they're going to try to do is just round up a -- quietly 25 round up some funds for some of the employees who are maybe 111 1 struggling with some insurance and medical bills and things 2 like that, and -- and do it out of the community, which is 3 exactly the way they're supposed to be doing things. And, 4 so, the Commissioners Court, you're invited. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How do we make 7 contributions? To whom -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: H.A. Baldwin. 9 (Laughter.) 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Didn't take me long to 11 learn, did it? I know the guy's name who's putting it 12 together. I'll give it to you later. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Please do. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's great. They deserve 15 it. All right. The item for consideration is to consider 16 and discuss the final and best offer from Dailey Wells and 17 authorize County Judge to sign final contract. Sheriff 18 Hierholzer. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Thank you. I was glad 20 the Judge set this at 2 o'clock so that we can really kind of 21 go over it, and we do have representatives here today. 22 First, George Weimer from Trott Communications is here. Jim 23 Sawyer and two other ones that may have to introduce 24 themselves with Dailey Wells Communications is also here. I 25 really kind of thought I'd start this off -- if we can take 112 1 about five minutes of your time and show a videotape, and 2 hopefully also the public that's here and other people can 3 see it, as to why this is so important to the Sheriff's 4 Office and to Kerr County. The video takes about five 5 minutes. It's showing one of our officers, Sergeant David 6 Billeiter, making a traffic stop out on Highway 27 at Airport 7 Loop, which is right where the blinking lights are, which is 8 even still in Kerr County. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 10 (Discussion off the record.) 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The videotape was 12 actually taped from a patrol car camera that was not one of 13 the new ones we have. This was in June of 1999, and this 14 type of camera he was using is actually a regular home video 15 camera, so the focus is way out right at first, because the 16 auto focus on that type of camera, not being a law 17 enforcement camera, focused on the blinking lights instead of 18 the car and the officer right in front of him. Okay. So -- 19 and the audio, when he's talking from his car radio, is a 20 little bit off, 'cause he's also got a mic on his person. 21 Once he gets out of the car, you can see that a little bit 22 better. 23 (Video tape started.) 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's another officer 25 that just passed him. That's how close we could have had 113 1 another officer. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is this being recorded 3 at your office? 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, in the car. This is 5 the car video. 6 (Video tape continues.) 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Our new video cameras 8 don't record this badly, thank goodness. 9 (Video tape continues.) 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There's actually three 11 other passengers in this car also. 12 (Video tape continues.) 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's three times he's 14 called it so far. He's trying to tell the passenger to go to 15 the car radio and get some help. 16 (Video tape continues.) 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Who's that speaking? 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Both. David does have 19 the man in a choke-hold, but then David's breathing hard. 20 But, they're laying on the ground in the traffic there. Then 21 we've got the passenger out of that car, just walking all 22 around. David can't do anything with him. If they'd have 23 had a weapon in that car, it would have been Katie, bar the 24 door. They called for help. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Was he handcuffed? 114 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: (Nodded.) 2 (Video tape continues.) 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Here comes the backup. 4 They were a little wound up. Then it focuses, once the other 5 officer broke that auto focus. 6 (Video tape stopped.) 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Every citizen in the 8 community needs to see that. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It does get your 10 attention. It got mine real quick. So, I think that's the 11 basis of -- of one of the reasons, and that happens time and 12 time again. It's a miracle that, one, they didn't have any 13 weapons and that in that car, and two, that all three of the 14 passengers, irregardless of the one that got out and was 15 walking around, didn't decide to help their buddy out, and 16 they could have definitely hurt David, if not killed him. 17 So, that's what we deal with. That was at 2:00 something in 18 the morning out by the airport. You noticed right after the 19 fight started and they're actually rolling around out in the 20 middle of the road, there is another car that drives by it, 21 okay? And then Mr. Fowler -- Deputy Fowler was just right up 22 the road the whole time, because he had actually stopped a 23 pickup that was in front of this car. That's why you saw him 24 pass David when David was pulling this one over, but there 25 wasn't any problem. 115 1 But David could not get out on the portable 2 radio that he had. And, unfortunately, you know, most of 3 our job is outside the car, where you actually have to use a 4 portable radio. David was laying on the ground trying -- 5 trying to break the tower. Once he stood up -- and, of 6 course, the communication people and Trott can tell you, 7 once David got him handcuffed to where David could actually 8 stand up and hold the radio up higher, he could finally 9 break the tower, okay? And that's actually even inside the 10 city limits, but during the fight, just trying to holler for 11 help on your lapel mic, he couldn't do it. 12 The other basis for this is what you see over 13 here in this diagram. One was done by -- this one was done 14 by Motorola back in 1993, showing what they -- with a 15 portable, the coverage that we have currently, because that 16 was done using the L.C.R.A. south tower site, which is 17 Granada tower, which is the only one we have. This is 18 portable coverage. Everything in white is what's covered; 19 everything in orange is not covered. I'll pass this around 20 in just a minute. Because if you look at Kerrville, all the 21 way out 27, most of that is not covered in our current 22 coverage. You get on Loop 534 and try and key the mic on a 23 portable radio, you're not going to be able to talk, all 24 right? It will not break the tower. The tower is way up at 25 Turtle Creek at Granada Spring. 116 1 And, Dailey Wells' projections are the 2 95 percent coverage that we will have using four sites in 3 this proposed system. This is the coverage using a portable 4 in Kerr County. What they're predicting is 97 percent, and 5 guaranteeing 95 percent coverage throughout the county. 6 Now, you also have other maps showing mobile radios in the 7 car and that, but your hardest one is always your portable 8 coverage and what we can get using a portable. But, you can 9 actually see -- Buster thought I was bringing in a new 10 building. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I thought he was going 12 to try to build a new jail. 13 (Laughter.) 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: With that coverage map, 15 lots of the county has pretty steep canyons -- 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- and hills, and it shows 18 coverage in that area; is that true? 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Oh, that's a drastic 20 improvement. If you look out on this, anything in purple is 21 not -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- what we would call 24 covered. If you look at that, there's some areas out Highway 25 39 and up towards Mountain Home that are still weak, and, of 117 1 course, some areas way in the tip of the eastern part of the 2 county. Pipe Creek is not covered. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But there are areas that 4 are -- there's still a lot of areas that are petty hilly and 5 mountainous that show coverage. At the bottom of those 6 canyons, you -- you will get coverage? 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What they will do to test 8 this site is, the County gets divided up into 1,500 little 9 grids, and then they have some equipment that -- it will 10 either go in one of our cars or their cars, but be driven on 11 any public access road or public road we have. Once -- once 12 the system's up and running, they drive through all that and 13 it receives, and they see what signal strength, what kind of 14 coverage we're going to get. Then that's all fed into a 15 computer and averaged out to give us a 95 percent coverage 16 throughout the county. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that, what I just 18 talked about, the canyons, the reason that you don't get the 19 coverage along -- looks like the -- 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Which highway? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- south end of Johnson 22 Creek? 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. A lot of that is 24 because you have to look at the four towers that we're going 25 to be using, which I think they picked four very good towers 118 1 to use, 'cause it scatters it out. But there's going to be 2 some areas, no matter what we do, that get too deep where the 3 towers can't read each other. And, with that, I will let 4 Trott come kind of more or less give -- 5 MR. WEIMER: On the coverage in the canyons, 6 when you look at the map, what the map does is, it's based on 7 a statistical analysis of the signal levels. Anything that 8 is outside of the clear area on the map has less than 9 95 percent reliability. That doesn't mean you don't have 10 coverage. It's just that your probability of successful 11 communications in those areas is going to be somewhat less 12 than 95. Actually, an 80 percent reliability is not that bad 13 if you're in certain areas, and obviously, if you can move 14 around a few feet in either direction, chances are that you 15 will be able to get some communications from the areas that 16 are actually shown in the dark color on the map. So, it's 17 not that it's a wall, and you when you cross the wall, it 18 dies completely. It's a fadeout, a gradual fade, because the 19 stats say that you can't exceed the 95 percent unless the 20 signal level is above a certain point. So, it's more of a 21 statistical analysis, and it's impossible to get 100 percent 22 coverage -- or financially impossible to get 98 or 99 percent 23 coverage, but the system that you have here is -- is going to 24 be so much better than what you have now. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And that, y'all have one 119 1 book that gives their -- their predicted coverage and their 2 guaranteed coverage at all the sites, if you got the most 3 updated book. Otherwise, you can pass that around. And then 4 the same coverage map using mobile, which is the car radio, 5 itself; that's what you're looking at. You can see a lot 6 less of -- the purple even goes away at that point. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. And, as far as 9 some of the technical parts of the system, when we first went 10 through the -- the accepting of the bids and the proposals 11 and all that, Trott had said there were a few deficiencies in 12 Dailey Wells compared to the other -- and also in all of the 13 proposals that we got had gotten. But, in the meetings and 14 negotiations for this best and final offer, they -- those 15 deficiencies were corrected. One of them was they were 16 originally saying a three-site system. We went to a 17 four-site system, the fourth site being the one on the east 18 end of the county out on Elm Pass Road, to help increase that 19 coverage down on the east end. And, still, we don't get 20 perfect coverage down there, but we're getting a lot better 21 than what we could even really hope for in a lot of that. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sheriff, this map that 23 we're passing around up here shows considerably less purple 24 down here in the eastern -- southeastern corner than that one 25 shows. 120 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's 'cause the one you 2 have there is the car radio. This is a portable radio. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Mobile talk-back. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And that is -- 6 MR. WEIMER: That's the hand-held portable. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's the difference in 8 the coverage. Car radios are 40-watt radios, where we're 9 going to get a lot better signal coming from them than a 10 portable radio, which is a 5-watt radio. Makes it a lot 11 clearer. That's why I showed you the worst case. That's the 12 worst coverage we'll get, that's using a portable radio. 13 Okay. This one's more or less the best coverage we're going 14 to get, using the mobile radio. The other addition in the 15 best and final offer negotiations we did was to go ahead and 16 add the console at the Sheriff's Office, replace the console 17 itself. The radios in our cars will not be replaced. Our 18 hand-held portables will not be replaced. Any agency in this 19 county does not have to replace any of their equipment to be 20 compatible with this and for us to be able to talk to them. 21 If we get the two new frequencies, which we 22 will apply to F.C.C. for, then we may have to reprogram -- 23 or will have to reprogram our current radios to accept those 24 frequencies, which the other agencies would have to do the 25 same. That's just kind of an anticipated thing, so we can 121 1 hopefully get away from these -- what we get from Mexico and 2 the different interference problems, and get clearer 3 frequencies than what we have. This is a two-channel 4 system, is the other addition we did, the second channel 5 being what I kind of phrase as our emergency management 6 channel. We'll have Channel 1 in our radios, which will be 7 our primary Sheriff's Office channel, which all our 8 day-to-day operations goes on that channel. If we end up in 9 a pursuit or end up in a -- where we have to go in and clear 10 a building, and it takes you 30 minutes to clear the 11 building, you need to clear a channel for that officer to be 12 able to holler for help if he needs it or whatever goes on 13 there. Then we can have that group of officers that's doing 14 that switch over to Channel 2. It does not interfere with 15 our primary channel, but yet they have direct communication 16 with our office. 17 It would also be of great assistance during 18 situations like a fire or flood or things like that, where 19 we can go over to Channel 2 for all that activity and leave 20 our primary channel the way it is. The console, the big 21 addition in it is, they can do what is called a patch-in 22 with that console. If we have Road and Bridge, Highway 23 Department, and us out there, and we're working with a flood 24 or whatever and we need to be able to talk to the Highway 25 Department directly -- not Highway Department, but TexDOT 122 1 directly, they can create a patch from our console by the 2 dispatcher pushing a button on the -- on the screen, and we 3 will be able to use -- if we go to Channel 2, we'll be able 4 to use Channel 2 and talk directly to any of their vehicles, 5 okay? Where we have the -- we're unable to communicate 6 with, like, Fredericksburg and Boerne now because they're 7 900 Megahertz, where we're conventional VHF, it will also 8 take care of that problem. 9 If we go into a pursuit or something in 10 Gillespie County or they come into ours, we can create the 11 same patch, regardless if they're 900; we'll be VHF, and we 12 will be able to talk to their units. So, it pretty well 13 puts us being able to talk to anybody in our county, okay, 14 no matter what happens anywhere else. And it puts us as 15 more of a regional-type deal, to where -- there's a lot of 16 changes in communication technology. There's a lot of 17 advances. We don't know, you know, if Fredericksburg is 18 going to stay with 900, if D.P.S. is going to go to 700, 19 like they're talking about, or what Bandera or Junction is 20 going to do. This way, it doesn't matter. We will always 21 be able to communicate with all these agencies, and at what 22 I feel, looking at the other bids and the way we came out, 23 is the least cost to the County. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Rusty, what if at some 25 point we decide that we want to go to a central dispatch? 123 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: This -- 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me finish my 3 question. What -- what capabilities do we have of expanding 4 that, that you just described? 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: This one's very simple. 6 With the new consoles we have -- we get two consoles that 7 will go in there. One of them is our main component, and 8 they tell me it is capable of handling six consoles. All 9 that happens is P.D. or those other agencies that actually 10 have a dispatcher already in there can buy another console at 11 a lot less than all the infrastructure we're having to pay 12 for this one. All the computer equipment goes into it. 13 Theirs plugs into this one, it splits off of it, and they 14 have another station, however many we want, up to six on this 15 one. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sheriff, you mentioned 17 that we're not planning to replace the radios in the -- in 18 the fleet of cars. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How old are they, and 21 what's the remaining life expectancy of them? 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Ever since Kerr County 23 went to six cars a year in the budget process, these six cars 24 come with radios in them. So, every time we get one, all 25 this equipment's brand-new. So, we will have 18 after this 124 1 year, 18 cars with brand-new radios in them, or up to three 2 years old. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Two, three years old? 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. And, right after 5 I took office, we had one of the L.L.E.B.G. grants, and we at 6 that point went out and bought all new portable radios, 35 of 7 them, for the department with that grant, and so all our 8 portable radios that we're using are all within two years 9 old. I don't see any need in replacing radios, except maybe, 10 you know, you may have one or two burn out a year, and we'll 11 just replace that with the budget process and with the 12 equipment process. But, it also keeps other agencies from 13 having to change theirs, and that is a big factor for us and 14 everybody else. I don't want to lose communications no 15 matter what with Kerrville P.D., Ingram, fire departments, 16 game wardens, any of those. I don't want to go to something 17 where we can't talk to them. Other than that, as far as some 18 of the details in it, I'll let Trott and -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I had another 20 question. Are you going to talk about the towers? Or is 21 someone going to talk about the towers? 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I can talk some about 23 them. I might need their help. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The -- in particular, 25 I've been asked a question of -- I don't -- out in the 125 1 western end, the tower on -- by Black Bull -- help me. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Scott Parker's -- 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Five Star Cellular's 4 tower. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Five Star Cellular. 6 And I understand that there is a similar tower nearby across 7 Highway 41 that we could use at no cost. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: T.D. Hall's tower. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's correct. What's 10 the problem with that? 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The problem with that, 12 one, T.D. Hall's tower -- and T.D. has offered it to us. In 13 fact, he'd love to just sign it over and let the County own 14 it. If we were to use that tower, in talking with Dailey 15 Wells and with Trott, that's an old tower. Number one 16 thing -- it just seems minor, but it would have to be 17 painted, most likely, which they tell me that costs anywhere 18 from $8,000 to $10,000 to have a tower painted. You're going 19 to have to upgrade the building on it and put in a new 20 air-conditioning system and environmental control system for 21 the equipment that goes into that building. And, with the 22 Five Star Cellular tower site, it's already there. The 23 electricity is there, the environmental controls with the 24 radio -- with the air-conditioning and heating systems are 25 there, and an alarm to that, to where if that air conditioner 126 1 or heating goes out, it automatically notifies Five Star 2 Cellular that their air-conditioning and heating is out at 3 that site, and they have so long -- or their electricity's 4 out. The expense in doing T D's tower, I'm afraid, would 5 be -- would even be a whole lot more than what we would ever 6 end up paying on the lease from -- from what Five Star's 7 offering us on the lease deal. 8 The other part of that is, we'd have to have 9 a generator out there, which we'd have to get; we don't have 10 now. You'd have continuing electricity payments, which 11 aren't much, but you still have electricity to those tower 12 sites. With the lease that we're doing, all that's already 13 taken care of through Five Star. It's all -- we don't have 14 to worry about all that, and they have all their own 15 technicians go out there and maintain that tower site. We 16 would have to maintain our own equipment in it, but the 17 tower site itself, Five Star's is a lot newer. T.D.'s, you 18 would also have to have add some structural and 19 environmental-type studies done on to it see if that tower 20 could hold the microwave systems that have to go up on it, 21 with the windage and everything else. I know T.D. had 22 mentioned something about some of the guide wires may have 23 to be replaced. I'm just afraid that the cost would be 24 cost-prohibitive to the County. It would cost us more than 25 leasing one that we don't have to worry about. Plus, if 127 1 they signed it over to the County, we're also accepting a 2 heck of a liability on owning a tower, and on the lights 3 being up there and making sure they're working. They got to 4 be checked daily and all that. I agree with Dailey Wells 5 and with Trott, that I don't think it would be beneficial to 6 the County to get into that tower. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, Sheriff. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You're welcome. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Let's talk about the L.C.R.A. 10 lease. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They are -- the L.C.R.A. 12 leases at this time, thanks to the County Judge, who did some 13 negotiating on our part with that, the lease of the tower 14 sites will cost us zero for the next two years. There will 15 not be a lease price on that. They're trying to work 16 L.C.R.A.-wide and come up with a good lease plan for public 17 entities and on public safety entities on providing that. 18 But, the nice thing about that is the same; we don't have to 19 provide the electricity, we don't have to provide the 20 generators. The two towers of L.C.R.A.'s that we will be 21 using is the current one that we're using out at Granada 22 Springs, which is Upper Turtle Creek, and their Legion tower 23 site, which is the very large one off Cypress Creek Road at 24 Red Rose Ranch. The -- like, the -- Five Star's, of course, 25 the one up at Mountain Home on 41, and the one down by 128 1 Starlight Hospital on Elm Pass Road, and that one does have 2 to have a building put at it and some other improvements, but 3 that is part -- the cost is part of the best and final offer 4 from Dailey Wells, installing that building and putting all 5 that there. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. So, what's the bottom 7 line? 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You want the price? Or 9 you just -- you have one copy of it. I know they want it. 10 The bottom line on the price is in your red notebook, 11 $957,805.71. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 957 what? 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: $957,805.71. The 14 contract negotiations itself were done with County Attorney, 15 David Motley, Assistant County Attorney, Travis Lucas, Trott 16 Communications, and Richard Wells and Jim Sawyer with Dailey 17 Wells, and there were some revisions that were done. We -- 18 the copy the Judge has in the one book I gave y'all, and the 19 one I have for -- for the County Clerk's office, is the final 20 contract negotiations that were approved by all attorneys. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Time frame for getting 22 all this done? 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The last they told me, 24 depending on when we -- the Judge will write a -- a letter to 25 proceed, if this is all approved. Once the financing part 129 1 from Henderson and all them is done, and after that letter -- 2 after they receive that, that's when they start doing it. 3 When I talked to Jim a few weeks ago, he's saying about 4 March, towards the end of March, depending on how quick 5 everything can get up and all the testing. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: George, do you have anything 7 you want to add? 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I got a quick question. 9 How's the contingency account going to be administered? Will 10 that be up to the contractor? That's up to Dailey Wells, 11 or -- on the use of the contingency funds? 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: As far as when a certain 13 percentage is paid and all that kind of stuff? 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: No, no. If I read this 15 correctly, there's -- there is a $65,000 contingency. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. What that -- 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I would assume that's a 18 management reserve of some sort. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. What that is, is in 20 our -- in our proposal, we also said that there were a couple 21 buildings in the county that had to be covered, such as the 22 jail itself, such as this courthouse, and those are 23 amplifiers -- that cost is for amplifiers that would go into 24 the building. Now, Dailey Wells does not feel that those 25 amplifiers will be necessary with this system and with the 130 1 number of towers and repeaters we have, but that is put in 2 there in case they are. If they are not necessary and that 3 equipment is not having to be used, if we don't have to have 4 it to cover inside the courthouse and inside the jail, then 5 that equipment won't be purchased. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Let me rephrase my 7 question, then. Is there any management reserve in the 8 contract dollars, or is it a pure fixed price? 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's a fixed -- 10 MR. WEIMER: It's a pure fixed price. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: There is no management 12 reserve? Okay. I just wanted to make sure I had that right. 13 And that's good. I mean, I don't have any -- any argument 14 with that at all. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If those amplifiers 16 aren't needed, it could drop to 60-something thousand. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Sure, I understand. 18 Great. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: George? What do you want 20 to -- 21 MR. WEIMER: Well, I've been through the -- 22 the agreement, the contract, the bid process. What they're 23 offering to you is a very functional system. It would take 24 care of the requirements that the Sheriff's Department has 25 placed on the system. We reflected those in the Request for 131 1 Proposal. In reviewing the -- the original proposal from 2 Dailey Wells, as I told you last time, there were some 3 problems in that. Those problems were resolved. The new 4 contract overcomes all of those problems. That's the fourth 5 site, change out to a different type of microwave service, 6 the building contingencies. Basically, the system is 7 completely functional for your intended use. And, the 8 contract does conform to the requirements that we did list in 9 the -- in the RFP, and you're getting it for substantially 10 less money than the alternative bids. So, I think it's a 11 good deal for the County. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: And your company will continue 13 to stay involved until such time as this system is accepted? 14 MR. WEIMER: All the way through testing; 15 through design and installation, inspection and testing. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anyone have any questions or 17 comments of George, other than to say thanks for your hard 18 work, and everyone at Trott. Mr. Sawyer? Welcome. 19 MR. SAWYER: Thank you. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: We're pleased to have the 21 opportunity to do business with you, and we appreciate the 22 way in which you and your company have handled the 23 negotiations on the best and final. We put you under some 24 time pressure, and y'all performed magnificently, so thank 25 you very much. 132 1 MR. SAWYER: Thank you. You're right, what 2 would -- normally would take a couple of months, we did in a 3 couple of weeks, and put in a little highway time, but that's 4 all right. It was all well worth it. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Just wanted to give you a 6 chance to say anything and introduce you, and you might 7 introduce the other members of your team that are here today. 8 MR. SAWYER: Okay. We have C.J. Hijazi; he is 9 Vice President of Sales for Dailey Wells. This is Cheri 10 Perales; she's in-house counsel for Dailey Wells. And, so, 11 they're here to answer any questions that you might have on 12 the contract or -- 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Does anyone have any 14 questions? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I just want to say 17 thanks for the professional approach by everybody concerned. 18 It's a very well-run procurement. I think we'll end up with 19 quite a good product. We hope to see you around during the 20 execution of this. 21 MR. SAWYER: I'll be around often. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: As a matter of fact, 23 we've had a little problem with -- with some contractors in 24 the past who didn't choose to ever come around, and it's sort 25 of nice to see someone who it appears is going to be here. 133 1 That's good, somebody's going to be here. 2 MR. SAWYER: Sure. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 4 MR. SAWYER: Any other questions? 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you very much. We 6 appreciate it. 7 MR. SAWYER: Thank you. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: At this time, unless there's 9 something else, I would entertain a motion to accept the 10 final and best offer from Dailey Wells for the Kerr County 11 Sheriff's Department advanced simulcast public safety radio 12 system, and authorize the County Judge to sign same. 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So moved. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 16 Griffin, second by Commissioner Baldwin, that the -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Commissioner Williams. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Commissioner Williams, sorry. 19 That the Court approve the best and final offer from Dailey 20 Wells Communications for the advanced simulcast public safety 21 radio system, and for the fixed-price amount of $957,805.71, 22 and authorize County Judge to sign contract for such system. 23 Any further questions or comments? If not, all in favor, 24 raise your right hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 134 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Outstanding. 4 MR. SAWYER: Thank you. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you all. Unless there's 6 anything else to come before us -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I would like to 8 make a comment. Sheriff, stay right there. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Uh-oh. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Last Friday, I went out 11 to his facility and sat in on his morning briefing with his 12 team out there. It was very, very interesting, and I think 13 at this time Rusty wants to invite you all to -- 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I do. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- do the same thing 16 and ride in the cars and all. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. Well, I've always 18 extended that, but when Buster happened to be out there -- 19 and I do have, except on Commissioners Court days, because 20 y'all start at 9 o'clock -- we have a 9 o'clock meeting at 21 our office in which the Jail Administrator, Dispatch 22 supervisor, investigative lieutenant who's in charge of that, 23 Chief Deputy, and myself go over -- and a patrol sergeant, go 24 over the day's previous 24 hours events, and any problems. 25 That keeps good, open lines of communication. But, I invite 135 1 any of y'all at any time to come out and sit and listen to 2 that each morning, and I invite y'all -- since y'all have 3 been paying the price for the new cars for the last three 4 years and that, to come out some night or some day and jump 5 in a car with one of our guys. It's even in our policy deal 6 that any Commissioner or County Judge can do that at any time 7 they wish to ride with our guys and see what goes on. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sheriff, would it be 9 all the same to you if we deferred until we get the new 10 radios in? 11 (Laughter.) 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I thought that might 13 happen. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or just ride around the 15 courthouse. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Touché. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Got to get out of the 18 parking lot at the jail. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You need to see a tour of 20 that jail. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: I did that four years ago, and 22 if you have never done it, it is instructive. About time for 23 me to do it again. So, we stand adjourned, gentlemen. Thank 24 you very much. 25 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 2:42 p.m.) - - - - - - - - - - 136 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 5 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 6 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 7 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this day of September, 8 2001. 9 10 11 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 12 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 13 Certified Shorthand Reporter 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25