1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Regular Session 10 Monday, December 10, 2001 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: FREDERICK L. HENNEKE, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 LARRY GRIFFIN, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X December 10, 2001 2 PAGE --- Commissioners Comments 3 3 1.1 Pay Bills 7 1.2 Budget Amendments 8 4 1.3 Late Bills 9 1.4 Read and Approve Minutes 10 5 1.5 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 10 6 2.1 Introduce for recognition Kerrville Christmas Lighting Corporation Board of Directors 11 7 2.2 Consider adoption of Cafeteria Plan options for Kerr County employee health insurance for 2002 14 8 2.3 Remaining right-of-way acquisition needed for Sheppard Rees project 27 9 2.4 Abandonment of Gulch Ranch Road (South Park), and set public hearing date 35 10 2.5 Approval of preliminary revision of plat for Creekwood V, Precinct 2 45 11 2.6 Approval of preliminary revision of plat for Twin Springs Ranch II, Precinct 2 45 12 2.7 PUBLIC HEARING - revision of plat for Hartshorn Country Sites 59 13 2.8 Approval of revision of plat, Hartshorn Country Sites 59 14 2.9 Approval of final plat for James Avery Craftsman Subdivision 60 15 2.10 Consider name changes for County-maintained roads in accordance with 911 guidelines 61 16 2.11 Resolution to participate in 216th Judicial District Narcotics Task Force 63 17 2.12 Consider Rainwater Harvesting Tax Incentive Program, proposed component of County's Water 18 Conservation Policy 66 2.13 Commissioners Court certification of lists of 19 organizations using HCYEC, determine eligibility for discounted fees proposed in rate schedule 72 20 2.14 Consider holding workshop on County Technology Utilization in January 2002, set date and time 91 21 2.15 Approve slate of commissioners for Kerr County Rural Fire District No. 1 95 22 2.16 Procedure for compiling/summarizing Commissioners Court evaluations of department heads and County 23 personnel 96 2.17 Discuss retention of outside counsel to complete 24 lease negotiations for radio tower leases 107 2.18 Discuss County notification procedures to road 25 name changes and 911 113 --- Adjourned 142 3 1 On Monday, December 10, 2001, at 9:00 a.m., a regular 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Good morning, everyone. It's 8 9 o'clock in the morning on Monday, December 10th, Year 9 2001, and we'll call to order this regular session of the 10 Kerr County Commissioners Court. Commissioner Letz, I 11 believe you have the honors this morning. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. Everyone please 13 stand. 14 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you, Jonathan. At this 16 time, any citizen wishing to address the Court on an item 17 not listed on the regular agenda may come forth and do so. 18 Is there any citizen who would like to address the Court on 19 an item not listed on the regular agenda? Once again, is 20 there any citizen who'd like to address the Court on an item 21 not listed on the regular agenda? Seeing none, we'll go 22 into the Commissioners' Comments, and we'll begin with 23 Commissioner Letz. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't have any this 25 morning. 4 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moving right along, 2 Commissioner Griffin. 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Just one thing, and 4 I'm still getting several phone calls -- I've gotten several 5 phone calls complimenting our Road and Bridge Department on 6 the quick response after the last flooding episodes we had. 7 And as of today, I think, in Precinct 4 at least, there's no 8 open issues that are left, Road and Bridge-wise, from those 9 two flood events, and well done to Road and Bridge 10 Department. If you you'd pass that along? 11 MR. JOHNSTON: I'll tell them, the ones that 12 do it. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Commissioner Baldwin? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have nothing today, 15 sir. Thank you. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Commissioner Williams? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One quickie. I want 18 to congratulate the good folks of the Center Point 19 Historical -- Center Point Area Historical Association for 20 accomplishing a really herculean task. Over the last 18 to 21 24 months, they have raised $47,000, which qualified them to 22 receive a $47,000 grant from the Peterson Foundation so they 23 could secure the property in the heart of town for their 24 historical park. It's been a real yeoman effort on their 25 part, and a lot of good folks have worked hard and deserve 5 1 credit for a job well done. Last night they had their 2 Center Point Christmas parade and tree-lighting, and they 3 had it in their new historical park, and it was really, 4 really neat to be a participant in that. So, my 5 congratulations to them on a job well done. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Very good. A couple things; 7 I want to offer the Court's congratulations to Jannett 8 Pieper and her staff down at the County Clerk's office for 9 once again being awarded the Five Star Award by the Bureau 10 of Vital Statistics for the accuracy and service they 11 provide to the citizens of Kerr County. This is the third 12 year in a row, I believe, that the County Clerk's office has 13 won this award. It's just another example of the 14 outstanding service that's provided to Kerr County by the 15 employees of this -- of this county, and to Jannett and all 16 the people who work down there, we want to give our thanks 17 and appreciation for their hard work. Also, we want to give 18 our congratulations to Greg Shrader for being named the 19 president of the Texas Association of Daily Newspapers. 20 Once again, it's always nice to have statewide recognition 21 for the excellent work that's done in the private as well as 22 the public sector here in Kerr County. I want to offer my 23 congratulations to the people who put on the courthouse 24 lighting ceremony on December 1st. It was a marvelous 25 ceremony. I think we had probably ten times as many people 6 1 in attendance as we have before, probably due partly, in 2 fact, to the parade which was before that. It was a 3 wonderful time and a great ceremony. We want to recognize 4 those people in a little bit. I want to offer my thanks at 5 this time for their hard work and for the betterment of us 6 all. 7 Finally, a couple scheduling requirements. 8 I'll remind everyone that our final meeting of this year 9 will be Friday, December 21st, at 9 o'clock here in the 10 courtroom. From 11:00 to 1:00 that day, we'll be having our 11 employee's luncheon down in the basement annex, as we did 12 last year, and that's always a good time. I look forward to 13 that. If need be, we'll come back and reconvene court after 14 the Christmas party. The absolute drop-dead deadline for 15 agenda items will be Monday, the 17th, at noon, because we 16 have to post the agenda, really, that afternoon. So, don't 17 come asking for favors after that time, because there won't 18 be any indulgences granted. We have to get that done on 19 time, so keep that in mind as you move forward. And the 20 first meeting in December -- in January is the 14th of 21 January, so we'll have -- we'll have a long period of time 22 between meetings, unless something comes up and we have to 23 have a special meeting. So, please keep those scheduling 24 items in mind. 25 Anything else? If not, let's move on to the 7 1 approval agenda and pay some bills. Tommy? Does anyone 2 have any questions or comments regarding the bills as 3 presented? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have one question, 5 Judge. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Go ahead. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: On Page 1, 8 Commissioners Court, the third item down, Continental 9 Casualty Company for $2,814. Is that a prisoner lawsuit? 10 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes, it is. It's attorney 11 fees on -- on a case concerning the -- the law enforcement 12 liability. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And this is part of 14 the -- oh, yeah, it says deductible; I can read. Okay, 15 thank you. That's all I have. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anyone else have any 17 questions or comments regarding the bills as presented? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move we pay the 19 bills. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 22 Williams, second by Commissioner Baldwin, that the Court 23 approve the bills as recommended and presented by the 24 Auditor. Any questions or comments? If not, all in favor, 25 raise your right hand. 8 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Budget 5 amendments. We have one from the Youth Exhibition Center. 6 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. This is a request from 7 Glenn Holekamp. We discovered that there was no budget item 8 for -- for the lease on his copier for the Ag Barn. The 9 past three years, this has been funded out of a grant from 10 AACOG, the Solid Waste grant, and he -- that grant we no 11 longer have, so we have -- in order to pay this for the -- 12 for the year, he's recommending that we transfer the $1,000 13 from Major Repairs in the Youth Exhibition Center to Lease 14 Copier Expense. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 18 Baldwin, second by Commissioner Griffin, that the Court 19 approve Budget Amendment Request Number 1 for the Youth 20 Exhibition Center. Any further questions or comments? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question. Do you know 22 how much longer is left on that lease? Seems like a -- you 23 know, I don't know how much they use that copier. Seems 24 like a pretty high amount. Is that the standard amount 25 for -- $1,000? 9 1 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other questions or 3 comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Do we have 8 any other budget amendments, Tommy? 9 MR. TOMLINSON: No, I don't. I have a late 10 bill. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: It's payable to First 13 Insurance Agency, and it's for renewal of a bond for 14 Constable, Precinct 2, for three years, and it's for $135. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I thought we did that 16 last time. 17 MR. TOMLINSON: There was a budget amendment 18 for this, I believe. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner Letz, 23 second by Commissioner Griffin, that the Court approve a 24 late bill and a hand check in the amount of $135 payable to 25 First Insurance Agency for the Precinct 2 constable bond. 10 1 Any questions or comments? If not, all in favor, raise your 2 right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Okay. At 7 this time, I'd entertain a motion to waive reading and 8 approve the minutes of the November 13th and November 26th 9 sessions of the Kerr County Commissioners Court. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 13 Williams, second by Commissioner Baldwin, that the Court 14 waive reading and approve the minutes of the Tuesday, 15 November 13, and Monday, November 26, meetings of the Kerr 16 County Commissioners Court. Any questions or comments? If 17 not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 18 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. At this 22 time, I'd also entertain a motion to approve and accept the 23 monthly reports as presented. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 11 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner Letz, 2 second by Commissioner Griffin, that the Court approve and 3 accept the monthly reports as presented. Any questions or 4 comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. All right. 9 We'll now turn to the consideration agenda. First item for 10 consideration is Item Number 1, introduce for recognition 11 the Kerrville Christmas Lighting Corporation Board of 12 Directors. Commissioner Williams. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Judge. 14 It's a pleasure to be able to do this this morning, because 15 I don't know how many other members of the Court have had 16 phone calls or people stopping you and saying how well -- 17 how well the courthouse and the grounds look to passers-by, 18 but I've had a number of them, and I think it's time that we 19 say thank you to those who've made this possible. About six 20 or seven years ago, I guess, then-Commissioner Ray Lehman 21 and Jim Murphy got themselves together, I guess over a cup 22 of coffee and a doughnut down at Donut King, and decided we 23 needed to do something about the courthouse square, and they 24 began a fledgling effort to decorate the courthouse lawn and 25 trees and the grounds and so forth, which led to bigger and 12 1 better things. 2 Over the last three years -- and that effort, 3 incidentally, struggled in its infancy, and it was a lot of 4 hard work for a very few number of people, but they did 5 manage to get it done and keep it alive. I believe three or 6 four years ago, the group decided to incorporate and bring 7 other folks into the -- into the mix, and they have since 8 incorporated and filed for 501(c)(3) designation with 9 Internal Revenue Service. They have engaged in fundraising 10 over the last three or four or so years, and what you see on 11 the courthouse square is the product of their efforts, and 12 it is an ongoing effort. It's a work in progress and will 13 continue to be so as we -- as we move forward each year. 14 So, with a great deal of pleasure, I'd like to introduce all 15 these folks who work so very hard, and they do it all year 16 long; they don't just do it in the Christmas season. They 17 meet all year long, planning and helping and directing 18 what's going to take place, ordering the materials, seeing 19 that they're here, and organizing work forces to get the job 20 done in the fall. 21 So, we'll start with the fellows who made it 22 possible at the very beginning, and if you would stand as I 23 call your names and be recognized, and it would be our 24 pleasure to thank you publicly for your -- your really fine 25 efforts. Jim Murphy and Ray Lehman are the two who started 13 1 all this. Dick Lehman has joined them. Dick Eilerman has 2 joined, Pat Dye, Louise Kirby, Beverly Bond. Absent today 3 are Walter Schellhase and Sudie Burditt, who are a very 4 integral part of it, and it's a pleasure to say publicly to 5 you, thank you for a job well done. 6 (Applause.) 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Jim, do you want to 8 say something? 9 MR. MURPHY: One thing. Can't miss the 10 opportunity. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm shocked. 12 MR. MURPHY: I'm Jim Murphy; I live at 203 13 Riverhill Boulevard. I want to thank the Court for allowing 14 us to do this over this period of seven years. We think it 15 has grown, as Bill has said too, and it's going to get 16 bigger. We won't put -- we won't overload the courthouse 17 lawn, don't get me wrong. We might change something, do 18 something like that, but the thing I wanted to say basically 19 was that I can't leave here without thanking Glenn Holekamp 20 and his crew. You know, they've done this basically on 21 their time. They're not doing it working for -- while 22 working for you people and for the County. So -- but I do 23 want you to express that to Glenn and his crew, that we 24 thank -- we appreciate very much what they've done. Thank 25 you. 14 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Also the community 2 service workers, and we've even had some -- 3 MR. MURPHY: Oh, yes. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- some trustees from 5 the jail who've been involved at various times. 6 MR. MURPHY: You're right. Thank you again. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you, Jim. We 8 appreciate it. Next item for consideration today is Item 9 Number 2, consider and discuss adoption of variable benefit 10 plan for Kerr County employee health insurance for the 11 calendar year 2002. We had a workshop on this last Tuesday. 12 It was well-attended by employees. Basically, the concept 13 which is before the Court is to offer the employees three 14 different deductible plans. No employee will be deprived of 15 any benefits. The employees have the option of retaining 16 and maintaining the current level of insurance benefits 17 which they enjoy today. Let me say that again. Benefits 18 are not going to change unless an employee chooses that they 19 ought to change. If we adopt this variable plan today, the 20 employee will have, first and foremost, the option of simply 21 keeping the current insurance in effect. However, if they 22 choose to go to a higher deductible, which means that the 23 County will pay less for their insurance, we will take the 24 difference between what the County pays for the current 25 insurance, at a $400 deductible, and what the County will 15 1 pay for a $750 or a $1,200 deductible, and place that amount 2 in a medical savings account which may be used by the 3 employee to either buy down the premiums, perhaps with their 4 employee benefits, or to purchase other medical services. 5 For instance, the money could be used to pay 6 for orthodontia work for a dependent of the employee. 7 Additionally, the employee will be able to place money of 8 their own into this medical savings account on a pre-tax 9 basis, so that, for instance, if an employee had entered 10 into a contract with one of the local orthodontists to pay 11 $100 a month for braces for one or more of their children, 12 the employee could designate that $100 to be deducted from 13 their salary on a pre-tax basis and placed into the medical 14 savings account, and they could then get reimbursed from 15 that medical savings account for those expenses, thereby 16 saving the income tax on the $1,200 that they would have 17 paid for the orthodontia work over the course of a calendar 18 year. Let me emphasize that this is on a reimbursement 19 basis. The employee first has to pay the bill and then 20 present the bill for payment, and then the employee is 21 reimbursed on that basis. But it is a way for employees who 22 have some good handle on their medical expenses for the 23 coming year to do some saving to be able to -- to handle 24 those expenses. That's the thrust of the proposal that's 25 being made today. Does anyone have any questions? 16 1 We have with us Brian and Curtis Finley, our 2 medical -- our insurance advisers, as well as Mr. Ray 3 Rothwell, who represents the -- the actual insurance side of 4 it. So, if anyone has any questions regarding the proposal 5 or the impact on the employees, let's hear it from them now 6 so we all have a clear understanding of what's -- what's at 7 issue here. Anyone have any comments or questions? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I guess I have a 9 question. It was asked of Mr. Rothwell the other day, and 10 I -- over the weekend, I couldn't remember the answer to it, 11 but, the -- there you are, the reimbursement. How long will 12 it take our employees to be reimbursed once they submit 13 the -- the proper forms to your company? 14 MR. ROTHWELL: That's really a question of 15 the Finley agency. I -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Somebody answer 17 it. 18 MR. ROTHWELL: Yeah. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Brian? 20 MR. FINLEY: Commissioner Baldwin, the normal 21 turnaround time is two weeks or less, depending on the mail 22 service, quite frankly. We have some that actually -- if 23 the claim is filed immediately or the receipt is sent in, 24 like, on a -- on a Monday, it's conceivable that it could be 25 back by the next Monday, if the mail service runs properly. 17 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, thank you. 2 MR. FINLEY: We like to say two weeks. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If you live on a new 4 county road, you may never get it. 5 (Laughter.) 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The one that's had the 7 name change. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Let's don't be mixing agenda 9 items. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sorry. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Judge, is there going to 12 be something put out to all the employees so that they can 13 actually see and understand what their options are? 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: If we adopt this program -- 15 and I'm going to let Brian speak to that -- there will be a 16 series of meetings at the departments. We'll probably have 17 one at your complex. I would anticipate one at Road and 18 Bridge, and at least one here in the courthouse. Brian, do 19 you want to speak to that? 20 MR. FINLEY: Sheriff, what we would like to 21 do would be to meet with each department. We would like to 22 immediately, once this is approved, set up meetings with you 23 and other department heads to get you thoroughly 24 indoctrinated on this, and then schedule meetings with your 25 individual departments. We will have charts that will give 18 1 them illustrations of exactly how this will function in 2 their behalf and the options that will be theirs so that 3 they can, each one, make an intelligent individual decision 4 with no pressure from peer group or anybody else. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other questions or 7 comments? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a comment. 9 I'm -- I'm not opposed to it, and even though I didn't make 10 the workshop, I did have the opportunity to meet with Brian 11 and he brought me up to date on it. Just some simple math 12 would indicate that an employee -- if you treat this as a 13 savings plan, I guess, is really what we're saying this is; 14 it becomes a savings opportunity for people, and if they 15 don't have any problems health-wise, or if they don't have 16 any extraordinary circumstances, they can come out pretty 17 well on it. It seems that Plan B does offer an opportunity 18 for employees to save some money over and above what the 19 increase in the deductible is, and that's good. Plan C 20 doesn't offer that. Plan C, if you weigh the increased 21 amount of the deductible against the amount saved, it 22 doesn't come out quite at as good, but Plan B does. 23 MR. FINLEY: Commissioner Williams, the -- 24 that's just an illustration that you have in your possession 25 there. As it relates to Plan C, the -- the difference of 19 1 some $35 or $36 between the employee's premium for Plan A 2 and B, and some $64 or $65 between A and C, is that 3 discretionary money that can be placed into that medical 4 savings account by either one, and -- or used for other 5 benefits that the County does presently provide or may 6 provide in the future in the way of other medical options. 7 But, really, each one, whether they take a B or a C option, 8 will have the proportionate savings, so to speak, that they 9 can utilize on other benefits. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which I understand 11 that, and I'm not against the concept at all. I'm just 12 pointing out that under the B -- the B -- the A plan savings 13 versus the increase in the deductible, the employee comes 14 out okay. The B plan savings versus the increase in the 15 deductible doesn't come out quite as well. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other questions or 17 comments? Once again, I want to emphasize that this is 18 something that's voluntary on the part of the employee, in 19 the sense that they have a choice. It's an effort that has 20 been generated by Barbara Nemec, who sent her regrets; she 21 had an engagement she couldn't reschedule today. And I have 22 worked with the Finleys and Mr. Rothwell, because we had a 23 number of employees who expressed to Barbara or myself that 24 they would like to have some options in the health 25 insurance. Again, it's entirely optional to the employees. 20 1 There is no pressure. There is nothing which will require 2 any employee to change the current insurance benefits they 3 receive if they don't want to. But if they want to have 4 control over a certain portion of their medical expenses, in 5 the sense that they can utilize some of the savings on a 6 high -- for a higher deductible and offsetting some other 7 expenses, then this will give them the ability to do that. 8 Again, we're providing -- bringing this plan before the 9 Court now because the last Legislature gave counties, for 10 the first time, the option to offer this type of a pre-tax 11 medical option benefit plan to our employees, so it's 12 something that we haven't had the ability to do before now, 13 and we want to give our employees the option to be able to 14 control, if they so desire, a certain portion of their 15 medical expenses and reimbursements. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, I have two 17 questions. One, on timing. Assuming we implement this 18 plan, do the employees have a window when they have to make 19 a decision? Can they change any time during the year? Can 20 they change back if they don't like it? I mean, how does -- 21 do those issues get handled? 22 MR. FINLEY: Commissioner Letz, under the 23 I.R.S. regulations, under Section 125 of the Internal 24 Revenue Code, which is commonly called the cafeteria plan, 25 if an employee opts to place their -- their premium dollars 21 1 under the pre-tax allocation, they are locked in for the 2 period of the plan year. In the County's case, that's going 3 to be the calendar year. And they can make no changes 4 except in the event of a major lifestyle change, and the 5 I.R.S. identifies those as a birth, a death, a marriage, a 6 divorce, disability, or job change. So, if there is a major 7 crisis, then they can make whatever change is required, all 8 the way up and down. One other aspect of this, if they 9 elect to put that -- those extra dollars and more with them, 10 as the Judge has indicated, those dollars can be used for 11 any family member. It's not just the employee. They're not 12 designated, so subsequently, an employee who insures only 13 himself could set aside dollars that could be used for a 14 dependent child that is not currently insured. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: When would the employees 16 make this election this first year? 17 MR. FINLEY: Between now and the end of the 18 year. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's what I'm saying. 20 So, there's a very short time for this to have any benefit 21 to the employees this first calendar year. 22 MR. FINLEY: Well, they make the election to 23 begin January 1 of '02. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 25 MR. FINLEY: And it will run for 12 months, 22 1 yes, sir. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, a decision's got to 3 be made before January 1st. 4 MR. FINLEY: Yes, sir, that's correct. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And, the other -- I guess 6 the second question, on the -- and we discussed this a 7 little bit when I visited with you -- the types of things 8 that qualify under the plan. How is that determined? Is 9 that -- is there a list that the Court puts together, or is 10 it just up to the employees totally to work that out with 11 you? 12 MR. FINLEY: You're referring to eligible 13 expenses? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. Such as, you 15 know, dental plans. 16 MR. FINLEY: Yes. The I.R.S. -- well, the 17 options that the Court presently has available are the very 18 ancillary-type coverages. You have a cancer policy, I 19 believe, a life insurance, disability, and different things 20 of that nature. Those are all eligible and may be paid for 21 under the cafeteria shelter with pre-tax dollars, so that 22 even those dollars that they save by moving from Plan A, for 23 example, to Plan B, they never have to pay tax on. The 24 I.R.S. identifies the eligible expenses that are medical 25 expenses that they can use those dollars for, if they put 23 1 them in a medical reimbursement account. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think what Commissioner 3 Letz is asking is, will you be able to provide the employees 4 with a -- an illustrative list of the types of things that 5 you get reimbursed for? 6 MR. FINLEY: Yes. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Like co-pay -- 8 MR. FINLEY: Yes, sir. I'm sorry. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- cleaning your teeth, like 10 going to the eye doctor, like buying a pair of glasses or 11 like, you know, an emergency room call. Types of things 12 that they could use the savings account for. 13 MR. FINLEY: We have a booklet that will be 14 distributed to everybody that gives them -- not a totally 15 complete list, but a partial list of those eligible items, 16 and those that are obviously not eligible, so that there's 17 no conflicts. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, thanks. 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And it's very liberal. 20 It's a very liberal -- 21 MR. FINLEY: Yes. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- allowance, I mean, 23 for the types of things that -- in the medical arena that 24 you can use those for -- those dollars for. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Does anyone have any -- 24 1 Jannett? 2 MS. PIEPER: No, I'm sorry. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Ada? 4 MS. MARTELON: I do have a question. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 6 MS. MARTELON: It's been my experience doing 7 payroll that a lot of times employees will opt for dependent 8 coverage or whatever, and about the first paycheck that's 9 minus that premium amount, they just discover -- they're not 10 budget-oriented, you know; they really can't afford it. And 11 it isn't a birth -- it isn't a birth, a death, marriage, et 12 cetera, and they're locked in for a year. From our 13 standpoint, what -- what is our recourse? 14 MR. FINLEY: We try to -- we try to emphasize 15 that, Ada, right up front, telling them that they are locked 16 in, if they elect to pay for that under cafeteria plan. 17 Now, if they do not want to be locked in, then they can pay 18 for any benefits with after-tax dollars, and they can come 19 to you and -- 20 MS. MARTELON: After-tax? 21 MR. FINLEY: -- say, you know, "Take me off." 22 But if they are under the cafeteria plan -- and we're very, 23 very emphatic about that so that they understand that it's a 24 12-month commitment. 25 MS. MARTELON: Thank you. 25 1 MS. PIEPER: I have a question. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Jannett? 3 MS. PIEPER: If we put money though this, are 4 we on a time limit as far as when we can use it? 5 MR. FINLEY: Yes, ma'am. I'm glad you asked 6 that question, because it is a use-it-or-lose-it type of a 7 situation on the medical reimbursement funds. The Internal 8 Revenue Service says, "If we're going to give you the tax 9 break, then you're going to use it the way we say," in so 10 many words. You have 12 months in which to use it. We -- 11 we simply say be very conservative your first year. The 12 Judge's illustration of a kid in orthodontics, that's a 13 slam-dunk; you know it's $100 every month. But if you 14 think, "Well, maybe I'm going to have to do this or maybe 15 I'm going to have to do that," don't do it. If it's a known 16 upcoming medical expense -- we just did the school system, 17 just finished them up last week on their cafeteria plan, and 18 I had one lady coming in. She said, "This thing worked so 19 beautifully for me last year because I knew I had about 20 $1,500 worth of expenses. I don't have any that I know 21 about this coming year, so I'm not going to do it." So, you 22 can change it on the anniversary date each year, but you 23 want to be sure that you use it up in that time frame. Now, 24 normally, the major company that we use on this sends out a 25 notice about 90 days prior to the end of the plan year 26 1 saying, "You have so many dollars left. Please spend them," 2 to keep you posted so that you're not caught unawares. 3 MS. PIEPER: With this being pre-tax, does it 4 affect the Social Security in any way when we get -- 5 MR. FINLEY: Yes, it does. If you have those 6 dollars taken out pre-tax, it does have some impact, 7 depending, of course, on your -- on your income level, on 8 ultimate Social Security benefit. And some people opt not 9 to participate for that very reason. However, we have 10 found, in the last 15 years that we've been using cafeteria 11 plans, that probably fewer than 1 percent of the people feel 12 that there's any significant impact on their Social Security 13 benefit -- ultimate Social Security benefit. 14 MS. PIEPER: Thank you. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Brian, let me -- as a 16 follow-on to Jannett's question, how long after the end of 17 the plan year do you have to submit your receipts for 18 reimbursement? 19 MR. FINLEY: Ninety days. Ninety days. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: So -- 21 MR. FINLEY: It must be an expense incurred 22 by the end of the plan year, which you have 90 days for 23 filing. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other questions? What's 25 the pleasure of the Court? 27 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I'll move that we 2 adopt the plan as presented. It provides flexibility. It's 3 a good plan, I think. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll second the 5 motion. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 7 Griffin, second by Commissioner Baldwin, that the Court 8 adopt the proposed Kerr County health insurance plan 9 allowing for three options for the calendar year 2002, to be 10 effective January 1, Year 2002. Any further questions or 11 comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Very good. 16 And, Brian, you and Curtis and Ray will be coordinating with 17 the department heads for the meetings with them, as well as 18 with the employees? 19 MR. FINLEY: Yes, sir. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay, very good. Thank you 21 very much. We appreciate it. Next item for consideration, 22 Item Number 3, consider remaining right-of-way acquisition 23 needed for Sheppard Rees project. Franklin Johnston. 24 MR. JOHNSTON: Morning. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Morning. 28 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Morning. 2 MR. JOHNSTON: We have all the right-of-way 3 on the Sheppard Rees project except for one-quarter of 1 4 acre. It's owned by Mr. Rick McCray, who purchased the 5 Horizon Subdivision. This one-quarter of 1 acre we had 6 appraised by TexAppraise, Billy Snow, and he appraised the 7 land at $972, and removing and reassembling a fence at $400 8 approximately, for about $1,372. I talked to Mr. McCray on 9 the phone several times. He thinks his land's worth 10 considerably more than that. He indicated he's willing to 11 donate that one-quarter of an acre if he would get a tax 12 credit from Kerr County for what he thinks his property's 13 worth, and permission -- he owns across the road, and the 14 road cuts off a little corner of his property, the remainder 15 of which would be about three-quarters -- about seven-tenths 16 of an acre, and he would like permission to move his sales 17 office out of The Horizon proper and place it on the other 18 parcel of land with an appropriate septic system, an aerobic 19 septic system, and pipe water across the road from The 20 Horizon to service it. And, with those two conditions, he 21 would donate that property to Kerr County. We feel like 22 this is a little bit out of our expertise, and we would like 23 the Court to refer this to the County Attorney or private 24 attorney, if they choose, to even see if a tax credit is 25 something that Kerr County wants to do, and if these 29 1 conditions are acceptable. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I think -- I 3 think you're right, that we need to, in my opinion, refer it 4 to an attorney to look into the tax credit issue. But, as 5 far as placing a building on our property, I -- I don't 6 know. I just -- that doesn't -- I'm not real comfortable 7 with that. It just doesn't feel good, when we're trying 8 to -- our goal is to obtain right-of-way and make the road 9 nice and wide, and then somebody comes along and puts a 10 building there. It just doesn't -- 11 MR. JOHNSTON: Well, I mean, I may have 12 spoken wrong. It's his property. It's the remainder after 13 the road right-of-way is purchased -- you know, is settled. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, we're talking 15 about -- 16 MR. JOHNSTON: It's his property. It's just 17 split; the rest of it is just a little parcel about -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're talking about 19 allowing him to lay a line across the county road? 20 MR. JOHNSTON: And it's a substandard size 21 lot, you know. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: As far as -- 23 MR. JOHNSTON: Seven-tenths of an acre lot. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, now, that's 25 U.G.R.A.'s call. I mean, that's not something that I would 30 1 vote on today. 2 MR. JOHNSTON: U.G.R.A. said an aerobic 3 system would be feasible. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you a 5 question as a -- as the County Engineer. What about 6 allowing them to lay a line across -- a water line across 7 the road? 8 MR. JOHNSTON: Well, that's done routinely. 9 If they do it properly, according to our -- you know, the 10 way we had set out in our Subdivision Rules, it's perfectly 11 all right. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So you wouldn't have 13 any problem with that part of the deal? 14 MR. JOHNSTON: Public utilities place lines 15 across the road all the time. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My question -- or I guess 17 concern is, I mean, I presume that their tax bill -- or his 18 tax bill out there far exceeds $7,500, assuming he owns a 19 lot of unsold property out there. And, if that's true -- 20 MR. JOHNSTON: I don't think that corresponds 21 to what the tax appraisal is on the property. That's just 22 what he thinks it's worth. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. I'm saying if he 24 wants that $7,500 credit, and if his taxes exceed that on 25 the total Horizon property, we're paying him $7,500 and 31 1 giving him something else. I don't see how that's a good 2 deal to us. 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: No. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, we're paying 5 him -- I mean, we'd be better off writing him a check for 6 $7,500 and forgetting Part B. I mean, I don't understand 7 how this credit helps you. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: As a matter of fact, 9 if a tax credit is a doable thing legally, if you can do a 10 tax credit, then I don't see any way in the world that we 11 can agree to pay him more than the appraised value -- give 12 him more of a tax credit than the appraised value. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think, by law, we can't 14 purchase this property for more than the appraised value. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's what I mean. 16 So even if you do it with the tax credit -- yeah, even if 17 you do it with a tax credit, rather than a straight sale or 18 whatever, I don't think you could ever exceed the appraised 19 value. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or is he suggesting 21 that his -- his donation of the property would entitle him 22 to some sort of a -- a letter of consideration from the 23 County so that they do take it off his federal income tax, 24 the value of the property? 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's not our 32 1 bailiwick, I don't think. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: That would be up to him. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's not what he's 4 saying. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's between him and the 6 I.R.S., but I think I would certainly be disposed to signing 7 a letter saying thank you for your valuable contribution of 8 however many acres it is. And any contribution to a 9 political subdivision is deductible from your federal income 10 tax. But that would be up to him. You know, I don't think 11 we can pay more than the appraised value unless we go 12 through the condemnation process and he appeals it, and the 13 Court establishes that it's worth more than the appraised 14 value. I think we need to -- as Franklin suggested, I think 15 we need to refer this to the County Attorney or other 16 appropriate legal expertise for their recommendation. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I don't know. I 18 don't -- I agree with that, but, I mean, I don't see much 19 point in spending time in the County Attorney's office or 20 money on the tax credit issue unless he's -- unless he 21 doesn't want a true tax credit; he's talking about I.R.S. 22 tax credit. I see no reason why we'd ever give a tax credit 23 for the same amount that he wants for the property. It 24 makes no sense. I don't even see why we should waste our 25 time on a tax credit. If we're going to pay him the money, 33 1 we pay him the money. I mean, the credit is the same thing. 2 Assuming his tax bill exceeds that, it wouldn't be -- you 3 know, the only advantage would be if his tax bill is $1,000 4 a month or some lesser amount; be four or five years before 5 we paid him, so we have some time value there. I mean, 6 credit's the same thing as paying him the money, but I don't 7 see any point in wasting time on the credit issue. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think we need to refer it 9 to the County Attorney as far as our options on acquiring 10 the property. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right, overall. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Period. 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Including the tax 14 credit issue. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Franklin, is he in the 16 room? Is he in this room? 17 MR. JOHNSTON: Mr. McCray? 18 (No response.) 19 MR. JOHNSTON: I guess not. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just thought maybe 21 we could short-circuit -- this guy looks like a lawyer to me 22 up here on the front row. 23 (Discussion off the record.) 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: And so the consensus seems to 25 be that we will refer this to the County Attorney's office 34 1 for recommendation as to our options for acquiring this 2 remaining piece of right-of-way. 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We need a motion for 4 that? Or just -- 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think we can -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just a second. Is 7 this the -- is this the last block in the -- to put the 8 picture together? 9 MR. JOHNSTON: It's the last one. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 11 MR. JOHNSTON: The plans on the road should 12 be ready this week or next, and the construction will 13 probably begin next summer, so we need to get this cleared 14 up in the next six months. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree, we do need a 16 court order. Actually, I'd like to add into the court order 17 that -- almost a specific time frame, if -- if the County 18 Attorney could please get back with us within two weeks. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: I'm -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I know that we think 21 that's impossible, but it's a court order. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I agree with 23 putting a time limit on it, because I don't see a lot of 24 time to mess around with it, to me. It looks like we're 25 going down the road to completion. We need to get it 35 1 started. I think we need to put a time limit to get our 2 options back and then proceed. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, I move we refer 4 this to the County Attorney and ask him to please have an 5 answer back to us in two weeks. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 8 Baldwin, second by Commissioner Letz, that the Court refer 9 to the County Attorney the issue of acquisition of the 10 right-of-way from Mr. Rick McCray and request that the 11 County Attorney provide us with his response within two 12 weeks of today's date. Any other questions or comments? If 13 not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Okay. Item 18 Number 4, consider the abandonment of Gulch Ranch Road, 19 Guadalupe Ranch Estates, Precinct 4, and set the public 20 hearing for the same. Commissioner Griffin. 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes. Are you prepared 22 to talk to this also, Franklin? This is one where we -- in 23 working road name changes and addressing with 911, in 24 dealing with Road and Bridge Department, dealing with the 25 property owners there, this was a suggestion that they made, 36 1 that the -- they would like to abandon that road and gate it 2 and be able to control the traffic on it, and that's what 3 this public hearing and what this agenda item is to do, is 4 to set the public hearing so that they can come in and 5 explain their -- their position. I think we've already 6 gotten one of the -- I think there are only two landowners 7 involved. We've already gotten one of the affidavits. One 8 is in process; we should have that by the public hearing. 9 So, all of the landowners involved -- the two property 10 owners involved will have affidavits saying that's what's 11 they want to do. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Isn't that what the 13 rule says? 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: The law says -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: A hundred percent? 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah, you have to have 17 100 percent. 18 MR. JOHNSTON: This one road, I think, is not 19 paved, and there's a paved road that goes the same -- same 20 place by another route, so it's not cutting anybody off or 21 anything. It's -- 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: So, we have one landowner, 23 Mr. McAnelly, who has already said okay, and then we have 24 one landowner for 201, 202, 203, and 204? 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. 37 1 MR. JOHNSTON: Hightower. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: What about the property at 3 the -- across from where the road dead-ends? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On the upper side? 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yeah. 6 MR. JOHNSTON: Across from where it says 7 North Park Road? 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: No. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Top of the page. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Go where the road dead-ends. 11 Who owns the property just beyond that? Which apparently is 12 serviced by South Park Road, as well. 13 MR. JOHNSTON: I'm not sure. There's another 14 road up there that services the frontage on that property. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Still, I think the law says 16 in order to abandon a road, everyone who has access to -- 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: But we're not going to 18 abandon that part. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Which part are you talking 20 about? 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: This part of the road 22 here. We're talking about this part. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: This property up at the very 24 top? 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think there's 38 1 another road there. I think that's a road. 2 MR. JOHNSTON: You see a little short 3 portion. I think that road ties into North Park. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's a road there that's 5 running across. 6 MR. JOHNSTON: Right. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 8 MR. JOHNSTON: It's very -- this doesn't show 9 the whole picture, but it T's into this road. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What if it doesn't go 11 anywhere? I mean, you can't cut that road off. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: No, that road -- that 13 road does. We've got a bigger map; for the public hearing, 14 we'll bring in a bigger map. 15 MR. JOHNSTON: Probably get -- 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I see what you're 17 asking. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: I don't have a -- I think we 19 just need to make sure that we have consent from everyone 20 who we're required to. 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: And I don't know if that 23 would include the individual who lives on the north side of 24 where South Park Road dead-ends or not, but that's an issue 25 that we need to make sure that we have -- 39 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That road is -- that 2 road that we're talking about abandoning is unpaved, is it 3 not? The -- there is a much better access on the road 4 that -- that little piece that you see there. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, I'm not disagreeing 6 with that, but that's not the legal issue. The legal issue 7 is -- 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think the 9 question -- 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- if everyone who -- 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Is served by the -- 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- is served by the road in 13 question. Is the person who lives to the north of South 14 Park Road served by North Park Road? 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. You'd ask the 16 same question of this landowner right here. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, he's already involved. 18 MR. JOHNSTON: We have to notify everyone in 19 the subdivision by mail, each lot? Do they all have an 20 interest in each road? 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think we do. I 22 think there has to be a notification that goes out to -- 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Do we? 24 MR. JOHNSTON: 'Cause that -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that's a 40 1 cancellation of subdivision. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's cancellation of 3 subdivision. It's not -- no, I don't think it is. 4 MR. JOHNSTON: We ran into that once before. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: But it's not a -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If you change the plats, 7 you get rid of the road. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's a different -- that's 9 a different code. It's a different section. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, I mean, the code of 11 abandonment, if it's not in a subdivision, that's all you 12 have to follow. I think if it's in a subdivision, you have 13 to follow both. 14 MR. JOHNSTON: I think so. Might have to do 15 a replat also. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We'll have to ask that 17 question before we -- I think we can do it. 18 MR. JOHNSTON: Seems like we ran into this 19 once before, that -- unless we've changed that portion -- 20 that each person that lives in a platted subdivision, if you 21 abandon or close part of a road, they all have a -- an 22 interest in all the roads in the subdivision. Do they all 23 have to agree to it? 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We did -- that was 25 Japonica Hills. 41 1 MR. JOHNSTON: Or just adjoining owners? 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: My understanding is just 3 people who are serviced by the road. But that may be roads 4 in an unplatted area. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But I think all the 6 property owners in the subdivision do have to be notified. 7 MR. JOHNSTON: Should be notified? 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. Notification is 9 the -- for sure. But, we need to research that. I think we 10 can still -- we need to do that before we do the public 11 hearing, but we can go ahead and set the public hearing. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: I'm fine with that. 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I'll make a motion 14 that we -- that we consider -- that we set a public hearing 15 on the abandonment -- I want to get the language right; hang 16 on a second. 17 MR. JOHNSTON: So, the sequence would be 18 public hearing; then, if you choose to abandon it, then the 19 revision of plat comes later? 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. It has to -- 21 you have to do this first. 22 MR. JOHNSTON: All right. 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. So, I want to 24 say that that -- the motion is that we set a public hearing 25 on the abandonment, discontinuance, and vacation of Gulch 42 1 Ranch Road, as provided by the Transportation Code; that we 2 set that public hearing for January 14th, 2002, at 10 a.m. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think we have a public 4 hearing already at 10:00. We might need to -- don't we have 5 the roads and the street signs -- speed limit sign at 6 10 o'clock? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I was reading, not 8 listening. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But under the revision of 11 plat, just reading it real quick, we have a public hearing 12 and we have to notify by registered -- or certified 13 registered mail, return receipt, each of the owners in the 14 subdivision. I don't know why we couldn't do them both at 15 the same time, do both public hearings at the same time, and 16 have one public -- or, you know, back-to-back; I don't know 17 if you can do them at the exact same time. And deal with it 18 at one time, rather than two. I don't know if there's any 19 savings on notice, publication. Maybe there's different 20 items, I'm not sure. But, I mean, it does take a -- looks 21 like the same notification requirements for revision of a 22 subdivision -- or revision of plat, rather. 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. How about you 24 crafting the motion, then, since you're looking at it? If 25 you want to get it right. 43 1 MR. JOHNSTON: Who has to pay for all these 2 notices? Is that the person applying for this thing? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I believe it's the Court. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: The County. 5 MR. JOHNSTON: The County? Yeah, 'cause one 6 of these persons are not in the subdivision. One is in the 7 subdivision. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The road's in the 9 subdivision, correct? 10 MR. JOHNSTON: Right. I think that's a 11 boundary or something. I think it goes to Phase II or 12 something on the other side. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, someone will have to 14 provide us with the names and addresses. Correct, Jannett? 15 MS. PIEPER: That's correct. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: For notice. We do have to 17 send it. 18 MR. JOHNSTON: That's what I'm saying, is 19 that the landowner does that. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Someone, typically the 21 developer, the person proposing the revision, provides us 22 with the names and addresses. So, one of the individuals 23 that want this road abandoned will have to be the person who 24 does that. And you may -- may be getting the cart before 25 the horse to try to have them at the same time because of 44 1 the notice requirement. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Jannett, do you know, is 3 it the same notice? I'm trying to save the money for two 4 notices. 5 MS. PIEPER: That I think would be a legal 6 question. I'm not -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One at a time. We do the 8 public notice on the vacation, but I don't think we can 9 vacate it at that time; I think we have to wait until after 10 we do the next public hearing. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: We can have the public 12 hearing for it. 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So -- 14 MR. JOHNSTON: What time did we set that? 15 10:30? 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 17 Griffin, second by Commissioner Letz, that the Court have a 18 public hearing at 10:30 a.m. on January 14th, Year 2002, at 19 the Kerr County Courthouse regarding intention of the Kerr 20 County Commissioners Court to abandon, vacate, and 21 discontinue Gulch Ranch Road, formerly a portion of South 22 Park Road, as provided by the Texas Transportation Code. 23 Everybody clear on that? Any further questions or comments? 24 If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 45 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Item Number 4 5, consider approval of the preliminary revision of plat for 5 Creekwood V in Precinct 2. Commissioner Williams. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll turn this over 7 to Franklin and to Lee Voelkel, who will explain what this 8 is all about. 9 MR. JOHNSTON: Lee can probably explain this 10 a little better than I can. This -- this and the next item 11 on Twin Springs is going to -- I think this one, Creekwood 12 V, is divided into two portions, and on one portion we're 13 going to do a partial abandonment, and then it's going to be 14 picked up by Creekwood in the next item. So, this one is to 15 -- is to pick -- 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Picked up by Twin 17 Springs. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Lee, before you start -- 19 MR. VOELKEL: Yes, sir? 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- let me go ahead and call 21 the next agenda item, too, which is consider preliminary 22 revision of plat for Twin Springs Ranch II. And that way 23 we'll consider them both at the same time, and I'll be less 24 confused. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm already confused. 46 1 MR. VOELKEL: Let me try to simplify here, if 2 I can hopefully not make it more confusing. Mr. Burgess is 3 the owner of this property, and he owns all of Creekwood V, 4 which is an existing subdivision; one lot, 500-plus acres. 5 He has bought three lots in Twin Springs, which adjoins the 6 Creekwood V property to the north, another platted 7 subdivision. What his intent was, was to take part of 8 Creekwood V and the lots in Twin Springs, put those together 9 into a subdivision in a reconfiguration of lots for him to 10 be able to sell. So, we originally just did the plat for 11 the Twin Springs, thinking that we could just take part of 12 Creekwood V, throw it in there, and we'd have that plat. To 13 be politically correct -- and this came up through City Hall 14 and our dealings with them, because this is ETJ property. 15 They decided -- and we all decided the best thing to do 16 would be to do two plats. First of all, replat Creekwood V 17 and do that into two lots, one lot 300 acres, which is where 18 his residence is that he will keep. The north part of that, 19 which is the 200-acre tract which we will be calling Tract 20 2 -- or I believe it's called Tract 2. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: 1B. 22 MR. VOELKEL: Lot 1B, thank you, sir. So 23 that now he has Lot 1B of Creekwood -- the revision of 24 Creekwood V to put with the lots in Twin Springs, which 25 brings us to our other plat, and then he'll have that 47 1 reconfiguration. He's going to -- and he plans to build a 2 new road and reconfigure those lots. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My confusion -- I mean, 4 I -- everything till you get to Twin Springs, I understand 5 what I was looking at, the plat. How does he get access? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Access on Spur 100. 7 MR. VOELKEL: That's a good question, Jon. 8 I'm glad you brought that up. Creekwood V, as it exists, 9 accesses off of Creekwood Road. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 11 MR. VOELKEL: On the north part of Creekwood 12 V, Twin Springs Ranch has adjoined that, and there's Twin 13 Springs Boulevard that comes to the north part of that lot, 14 and it's up in the very far righthand corner of Creekwood V. 15 So, when he divides the Creekwood V into two lots, the Lot 16 1A, which is the area for his house, will be served off of 17 Creekwood as it presently is. Lot 1B will be accessed off 18 of Twin Springs Boulevard, which exists in the subdivision 19 adjoining to the north. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Off of Spur 100. 21 MR. VOELKEL: Off of Spur 100, correct. Did 22 that clear it up at all? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I understand. I'm trying 24 to figure out where it is. Is it right here? I can't put 25 this plat and this plat -- figure out where -- 48 1 MR. VOELKEL: Okay. Here -- Twin Springs -- 2 this area right here is same as this here, so this tract 3 accesses off of Twin Springs Boulevard. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Twin Springs. 5 MR. VOELKEL: And then it continues on going 6 this way. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right here? 8 MR. VOELKEL: That's correct. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That would have -- 10 MR. VOELKEL: And I'm glad you noted that. 11 We'll add that to the plat so that's clear. It's on this 12 one here, but it's not real clear on this big one. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He's going to build a 14 road off Twin Springs to access the rest of the lots? 15 MR. VOELKEL: That's correct, yes, sir. Twin 16 Springs Boulevard is a private road that was built to the 17 County's standards. His intent is to maintain a private 18 road built to County standards for the new road in his 19 subdivision. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Now I understand. 21 MR. JOHNSTON: Since the entire subdivision 22 is owned by one owner, I guess a public hearing wouldn't be 23 required, right? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Creekwood V? 25 MR. JOHNSTON: Right. 49 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right, but that's not 2 the case in -- 3 MR. JOHNSTON: That's not the case in the 4 other one. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- Twin Springs. 6 MR. JOHNSTON: We could do a partial 7 abandonment without a public hearing. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, that's the way it 10 reads. If they're a non-developer owner, they don't need to 11 do the public hearing. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Does anyone have any 13 questions or comments regarding the -- the revision of plat 14 for Creekwood V, or the revision of -- preliminary revision 15 of plat for Twin Springs Ranch II? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Only question I have, you 17 mentioned private roads. Are there any stipulations on Twin 18 Springs Ranch on their private roads? Aren't those private 19 roads as well, as I recall? 20 MR. VOELKEL: That's correct, yes, sir. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, there's no 22 problem between him using private roads to get to a new 23 subdivision? 24 MR. VOELKEL: As long as he -- those lots are 25 in that subdivision, I think what the deed restrictions say 50 1 is that he's able to use that road for any future 2 development. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, that raises a 4 question, Lee. That applies to Twin Springs as we know it 5 today, right? But, in effect -- 6 MR. VOELKEL: Correct. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- he is expanding 8 Twin Springs by adding a piece of Creekwood V to it. What 9 does that do to us? 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think that creates another 11 property. 12 MR. JOHNSTON: It creates another -- Twin 13 Springs I? I don't know. Isn't that what this is called? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's just something -- I 15 don't know that we can answer it today -- something you're 16 going to have to make sure that we're satisfied when it 17 comes to that next step, that there is legal access to that 18 subdivision, and that's going to take probably an attorney's 19 opinion. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: The roads in Twin Springs I 21 are dedicated to the use of the people in Twin Springs I. 22 MR. VOELKEL: Correct. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: It does not give anyone the 24 right to establish a Twin Springs II and use the same roads. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably -- 51 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, we had that problem out 2 in Riverbend Ranches. 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right, North Fork 4 Riverbend Ranch. But, by agreement you can do that. I 5 mean, if -- if the other subdivision owners agree to it, 6 then you don't have a problem. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But it has to come 8 back and has to be replatted? 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: No, it doesn't have to be 10 replatted, but you'd have to -- I mean, the granting of an 11 easement is specific to the people it's granted for, and one 12 person cannot take that benefit and give it to other people. 13 MR. VOELKEL: Would that prohibit anybody in 14 Twin Springs from replatting their tract of land? 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: No, not their tract, because 16 they're within the original piece of land, and it -- the 17 easement of the roads benefit everybody in that land, so 18 they can replat. They can do it, 'cause it's given to that 19 piece of land, but you can't extend the benefit to a 20 separate piece of land unless you get the people in the 21 first piece of land to go along with it. You need to -- 22 that's a -- 23 MR. VOELKEL: I hear what you're saying. 24 We'll get that -- 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: That will have to be 52 1 clarified. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Prior to the final 3 plat. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Because it is a private -- 5 private road on a -- on an easement for the specific benefit 6 of people in Twin Springs I. 7 MR. VOELKEL: Got you. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Another option -- and it 9 would still require the same thing, but it might be a little 10 more straightforward to some of the people -- is to revise 11 Twin Springs and expand it, and when do you that, you would 12 have to do legal notification, get everyone's -- or the 13 required number of people to agree to it. I mean, there's 14 two ways you can do it. Either expand the subdivision, 15 which would require notification, or you can get permission 16 to use the roads and have two subdivisions, either way. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right, either. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That would solve the -- 19 MR. VOELKEL: Sure. 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: But I don't think -- 21 but we can approve the preliminary based on that. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Preliminary for 23 Creekwood or preliminary for both of them? 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Both of them. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Both of them. 53 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Approve the preliminary for 2 both of them, knowing that that's an issue that has to be 3 addressed. 4 MR. JOHNSTON: It actually has two accesses. 5 MR. VOELKEL: That's correct. Can I make 6 another comment? Or -- I have a question that's come up in 7 our review from Headwaters and U.G.R.A. U.G.R.A. has sent a 8 review that everything is in order. They have requested a 9 change in the signature block on the final plat. I didn't 10 know if that's something that we need to do, or -- we'd be 11 preparing these plats for sometime in January; if that 12 change has been adopted, or if we stay with what we -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Two things on that. One, 14 I would make sure that the signature block that's on there 15 is what the Court has authorized up to now. I believe 16 they're using language that we have not approved. But the 17 second part of it is, we're -- or I'm in the process of 18 talking with Stuart Barron, trying to find out what language 19 U.G.R.A. wants. That will be coming to the Court, probably 20 at our next meeting. So, the language may be changing, but 21 for the time being, what's in the Subdivision Rules is the 22 language, period. 23 MR. VOELKEL: So, whatever's in the books up 24 to now is what we use? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. And if -- yeah, 54 1 and I've told Stuart that. 2 MR. VOELKEL: Okay. And, on the Headwaters 3 issue, I was under the assumption that if we address the 4 water availability in the Subdivision Regulations, that we 5 would get approval from Headwaters. In their review, they 6 have requested a certified letter, and he wants it from the 7 surveyor, that there are no wells on the property. I told 8 Cameron Cornett that that's something that I would not be 9 able to do. As a surveyor, I really think that's an abuse 10 of my certification and my seal; that's for boundary 11 surveying, not for surveying wells. I suggested that the 12 owner of the property be the one to do that, and we're still 13 at a point where he hasn't accepted that. To get final plat 14 approval, is that an issue that we'll have to get resolved? 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: What? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't -- it's not -- in 17 my opinion, it's not in our Kerr County Water Availability 18 Requirements, explicitly. They don't have the authority to 19 ask you to do it on our behalf. They may have it on some 20 other authority. 21 MR. VOELKEL: But can we get our plat 22 approved without that? I mean, there also is -- and you're 23 probably aware of -- in the regulations, there's a 24 requirement to show existing wells. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 55 1 MR. VOELKEL: Which we do. We just don't 2 have a certified letter that says there are no other wells 3 on the property. And, quite frankly, on 500 acres, I don't 4 know if anybody would want to make that kind of statement. 5 We don't walk the entire property. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. I mean -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Y'all have just set 8 off some alarms. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: First you were talking 11 about they had -- someone has put language on the plats that 12 hasn't been authorized by the Court. Is that U.G.R.A.? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: U.G.R.A.'s -- I'm hearing 14 from Stuart -- he sent me some language that they're using, 15 and I asked him where he got it. He said that's what 16 they're currently using. That's not what the Subdivision 17 Rules say you need, so you have to use what we say. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think that one's 19 taken care of. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If you want to change it, 21 you need to submit it, and we will -- you know. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Nevertheless, they 23 stepped outside their authority. We need to get a big stick 24 and hang it here in this room somewhere, and -- I mean that. 25 I'm tired of that. And then this thing coming along with 56 1 Headwaters, that really angers me a little bit. 2 MR. VOELKEL: It's frustrating for me. I 3 thought that, with the water availability requirements, 4 which are pretty -- pretty tough, that that's what we've 5 been going by. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. 7 MR. VOELKEL: If we can accomplish that, that 8 we have satisfied Headwaters. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. 10 MR. VOELKEL: And that might not be so. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think the point here 12 is that, for platting purposes, the book is the book. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And that's all anyone 15 needs to go by. If Headwaters has additional 16 requirements -- and we're working another issue on the same 17 kind of additional requirement by Headwaters. If they have 18 an additional requirement, that's up to them to either come 19 to the Court and say, "We would like for to you incorporate 20 this in the Subdivision Rules," and we can consider that, or 21 they can charge off on some other state law that they have 22 and they can go do it on their own, but not for platting 23 purposes. 24 MR. VOELKEL: Yes, sir. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it brings up the 57 1 point that it may be appropriate for the Judge to write a 2 letter to everyone that signs off on the plat and just 3 remind them, these rules have now been in effect for two 4 years; that there is no authority for anyone to change 5 anything, period. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Or do additional 8 requirements or anything. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The rules are the rules. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: I will be happy to do that. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 'Cause I think that -- 12 you know, I know that -- well, there's two instances now 13 where there are some additional requirements being made. If 14 they're not in the rules, they're not in the rules. If they 15 need to modify them, they need to come to us and we'll 16 consider modifying them. 17 MR. VOELKEL: I just wanted to bring that to 18 your attention. It's a little frustrating still working 19 with Headwaters to resolve that. Hopefully we'll be able 20 to. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know what you 22 have to resolve. You know, you bring it in here, and if 23 it's -- if it meets our guidelines, we're going to approve 24 it. Nevermind. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Let's take up the agenda 58 1 items. Do I have a motion to approve -- and we can take 2 them together -- the preliminary revision of plat for 3 Creekwood V as well as the preliminary revision of plat for 4 Twin Springs Ranch II, Precinct 2? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Since you've stated 6 it, Judge, I'll move it. 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 9 Williams, second by Commissioner Griffin, that the Court 10 grant preliminary approval -- grant approval for the 11 preliminary revision of plat for Creekwood V in Precinct 2, 12 and also grant approval of preliminary revision of plat for 13 Twin Springs Ranch II in Precinct 2. Any further questions 14 or comments? If not, all in favor raise your right hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. 19 MR. VOELKEL: Thank you, sir. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. At this time, the 21 next item for consideration is Item Number 7, which is the 22 public hearing for revision of plat for Hartshorn County 23 Sites. At this time, we will recess the Kerr County 24 Commissioners Court meeting and open the public hearing. 25 / 59 1 (The regular Commissioners Court meeting was closed at 10:00 a.m., and a public hearing 2 was held in open court, as follows:) 3 P U B L I C H E A R I N G 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Is there any member of the 5 public who'd like to address the Court on the issue of the 6 revision of plat for Hartshorn County Sites, Precinct 1? 7 Once again, is there any member of the public who would like 8 to address the Court on the issue of the revision of plat 9 for Hartshorn County sites in Precinct 1? 10 (No response.) 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Third time's the charm. Is 12 there anyone who'd like to address the Court on the issue of 13 revision of plat for Hartshorn County Sites in Precinct 1? 14 Seeing none, we'll close the public hearing and reconvene 15 the Kerr County Commissioners Court meeting to take up 16 Agenda Item Number 8, which is consider the approval of 17 revision of plat for Hartshorn County Sites in Precinct 1. 18 (The public hearing was concluded at 10:02 a.m., and the regular Commissioners Court 19 meeting was reopened.) 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Commissioner Baldwin? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll refer this to the 22 County Engineer, Mr. Johnston. I think Charlie Digges -- is 23 this his also? 24 MR. JOHNSTON: This is his, yeah. I think 25 it's all in order. Recommend approval. 60 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any questions or comments? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I move that we 3 approve the revision of plat for Hartshorn County Sites, 4 Volume 1, Page 68 and 69 in Precinct 1 in Kerr County. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 7 Baldwin, second by Commissioner Griffin, that the Court -- 8 approve revision of plat for Hartshorn County Sites, 9 subdivision recorded in Volume 1, Pages 68 to 69, located in 10 Precinct 1 in Kerr County, Texas. Any questions or 11 comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Next item is 16 Item Number 9, consider the approval of final plat for James 17 Avery Craftsman Subdivision, also in Precinct 1. 18 Commissioner Baldwin. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: County Engineer. 20 MR. JOHNSTON: Same issue. We've been 21 through it and everything's ready for approval. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any questions or comments? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I approve -- I move 24 that we approve the final plat of James Avery Craftsman 25 Subdivision, Precinct 1, in Kerr County, Texas. 61 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 3 Baldwin, second by Commissioner Williams, that the Court 4 approve the final plat for the James Avery Craftsman 5 Subdivision located in Precinct 1, Kerr County, Texas. Any 6 questions or comments? If not, all in favor, raise your 7 right hand. 8 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Opposed, same sign. 10 (No response.) 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. 12 MR. JOHNSTON: Just for the record, the 13 mylars are in my office. They're still in my office, so 14 I'll bring them by after lunch for signature. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. All right, very good. 16 Thank you, Charlie. Thank you, Keith. We appreciate it. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, Tommy. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: The next item for 19 consideration is Item Number 10, consider name changes for 20 County-maintained roads in accordance with 911 guidelines, 21 and a speed limit sign. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, I believe this is 23 on here in case we were going to add anything. We already 24 voted on it last time, so I don't think -- I'm not adding 25 anything. Are you? 62 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: There is a -- Road and 2 Bridge called me this morning. There is one in Precinct 4 3 that we can add to that hearing that will be held on the 4 14th, and that's to change Windcrest, one word. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: "Win" or "Wind"? 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Windcrest, one word, 7 to Yavo, Y-a-v-o. There's actually a Yavo there now. This 8 is a continuation of that, you know, the way the road's been 9 redone, so it makes -- the road would have one name instead 10 of two. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good idea. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So we'd add that to 13 the list. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Is that a motion to add that? 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's a motion. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 18 Griffin, second by Commissioner Letz, that the Court add to 19 the previously approved name changes, changing the name of 20 current road Windcrest in Precinct 4 to Yavo, Y-a-v-o, a 21 continuation of an existing road, such change to also be 22 considered at the public hearing to be held on January 14, 23 Year 2002, at 10 o'clock a.m., in the Commissioners Court in 24 Kerr County, Texas. Any questions or comments? If not, all 25 in favor, raise your right hand. 63 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Next item is 5 Item Number 11, consider and discuss Resolution to 6 participate in the 216th Judicial District Narcotics Task 7 Force. Morning. 8 MR. BARTON: Morning. How are you doing? 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Does anyone have any 10 questions of Mr. Hill regarding the resolution? 11 MR. BARTON: Mr. Barton. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's T. Clay Barton. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Mr. Barton, sorry. Any 14 questions or comments? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Has anything changed 16 from last year, Clay, as far as the -- as far as this 17 agreement is concerned? 18 MR. BARTON: What do you mean, Buster? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I mean, has -- 20 has anybody's contributions -- I notice there was a -- 21 they're listed back here. I'd like to point out, by the 22 way, City of Kerrville, $46,000, Kerr County, $44,000, and 23 Gillespie and Fredericksburg total up about 30 between the 24 two of them. We're picking up the big part of this. Of 25 course, we house y'all here and you do most of your work 64 1 here. Clay, forgive me for raising my voice. But, has any 2 of those numbers changed from last year? 3 MR. BARTON: I think -- I don't have a 4 comparison from last year's numbers, Buster, but I think 5 some of the numbers went up, some went down. It was based 6 upon mostly the fringe benefit contributions, is what makes 7 the adjustments on that. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I move we -- 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Before that, is this 10 one of those that requires review by the County Attorney? 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: No. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I don't think it does. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir, never has. 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I'm sorry. Go ahead. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's see. How's it 16 written? I move that we approve the resolution to 17 participate in 216th Judicial District Narcotics Task Force. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 20 Baldwin, second by Commissioner Griffin, that the Court 21 approve the resolution authorizing Kerr County to 22 participate in the 216th Judicial District Narcotics Task 23 Force, and authorize County Judge to sign the interagency 24 agreement as well as the resolution. 25 MR. BARTON: Can I be heard off the record? 65 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 2 MR. BARTON: Can I be heard off the record? 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Not in this forum. 4 MR. BARTON: I was going to respond to 5 Buster's first question, as far as comparison to Gillespie 6 County. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's fine, but we can't go 8 off the record in -- 9 MR. BARTON: Okay. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- a public meeting. So, if 11 you want to talk to Commissioner Baldwin -- 12 MR. BARTON: Kerr County had a total of 237 13 arrests on my task force last year, as compared to 17 in 14 Gillespie County. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any further questions or 17 comments? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or is there anything 19 else we can do for you? 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: If not, all in favor, raise 21 your right hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Okay, very 66 1 good. Next item for consideration is Item Number 12, 2 consider and discuss Rainwater Harvesting Tax Incentive 3 Program, a proposed component of Kerr County Water 4 Conservation policy. Commissioner Williams. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We have been here 6 before, and we are here again. I think each time we address 7 this issue, I've attempted to elicit from members of the 8 Court their suggestions for improvement or their suggestions 9 for correcting things that they thought were problematic. 10 We've done it each time, and as of the last time when we 11 brought it about a month ago, there were still some concerns 12 about -- particularly about how long how we fund for this 13 particular initiative. Given that we don't know how many 14 people might participate, and being that we set our budget 15 year in October and some of these folks come up for 16 eligibility during the course of the year by having done so, 17 and we don't know the extent of that, we might find 18 ourselves unable to fund what we had anticipated, or the 19 demand might exceed our ability to fund. 20 So, what I've done this time was to make some 21 basic changes, particularly in the area of the credits, and 22 those changes are that the aggregate amount of credits will 23 not exceed the amount included in this fiscal year budget, 24 and any qualifying system that does not receive credit or 25 appropriate tax credit in the following year's certification 67 1 will be eligible for consideration in subsequent years. And 2 that's all preceded by saying that each fiscal year, Kerr 3 County will budget the maximum amount that it possibly can, 4 if any, available for credits against Kerr County taxes. 5 So, if someone -- if the demand exceeded our budgeting, then 6 that person or persons who did so would be eligible for 7 consideration on a future date. So, this gives us the 8 opportunity to budget for it and avoid surprises by reason 9 of too many people coming forward and doing it, and gives us 10 a little bit of control in terms of what it is that we might 11 be willing to do in terms of a tax credit of $1 for each $10 12 invested in rainwater harvesting. That formula hasn't 13 changed. The limit is $1,000, which would equate to some 14 property owner making a $10,000 investment. 15 We have earlier taken out the aspect of 16 installation; there's no credit for installation, because 17 that becomes subjective. Somebody may say, "Well, I did it 18 myself, and the value of my work" -- somebody like Raoul, 19 who did it all himself -- "the value of my work is $25,000," 20 as opposed to whatever he could have had it done for by 21 reason of some professional doing it. So, we take out the 22 installation and limit the -- our incentive to equipment 23 only, and we go from there. So, hopefully, I've addressed 24 the questions that the Court has raised. I don't know, but 25 we're willing to test it today and see whether we have 68 1 addressed those issues. I'd be happy to answer any 2 questions my colleagues have. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any questions? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Starting with 5 Commissioner Letz. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any questions or comments, 7 Commissioner Letz? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess the only comment 9 I have is that it's -- it is an improvement; however, I 10 don't see that this gets us any further than we've already 11 done at our last motion, where we approved this as something 12 the County encourages, because there's no funding in the 13 budget to do it at this time that I know of. And I think 14 that I like the part about having a maximum amount, but I 15 think this should be done at budget time, and I think at 16 that time we should also consider the other possible, I 17 guess, water conservation programs from a budget standpoint. 18 And, so, I don't -- I don't see a need for this, 'cause that 19 doesn't do anything more than what we already did at our 20 last court order -- or last time we looked at this, when we 21 approved the program. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Wouldn't it -- if we 23 put this one into effect, we can add other things. This 24 would not be effective until the next fiscal year, so -- I 25 mean, it wouldn't be for this year, because we haven't 69 1 budgeted anything for it. I think that's what Commissioner 2 Williams was trying to address, is that we would have to do 3 that in the next budget cycle. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's correct. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So we're not 6 committing anything for this year by doing this. We're just 7 setting up the process that says we'll approach it in the 8 next budget cycle. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's a waste. I 10 think there's no reason for it. I mean, it doesn't do 11 anything, so it should be handled at the next budget time. 12 My point of view. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, it will be 14 handled at the next budget time. We can -- we can determine 15 what, if any, amount we want to put in and the limit of 16 that, and any future credits that might be forthcoming would 17 be limited by that amount for consideration in that 18 particular year. And if there are -- if that exceeds -- if 19 the number exceeds the amount we budgeted, then they carry 20 over to another fiscal year -- budget year. 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: What I -- the point I 22 was making, Jonathan, is that if they do this now, this is 23 on the books; we don't commit -- we're not committed to 24 anything until the next budget year, so why not go ahead and 25 take care of this one and start looking at some of the 70 1 other -- the cedar eradication or whatever else, if we want 2 to do that, and we can, like, line these things up. We 3 don't make a commitment now to any of them until the budget 4 process, but we don't have to address these again as part of 5 the budget process, which just slows us down. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I understand that, but to 7 me, it's putting the court order out there. It's just out 8 there with -- I mean, we're going to have to vote on it next 9 budget anyway, so I don't see any reason to do it now, 10 'cause it doesn't do anything. Just having a court order 11 for the sake of having a court order. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: But it lays out the 13 program so that people can consider that for next year. I 14 mean, this tells you -- this gives you the rule that we're 15 going to go by for this particular water conservation 16 measure, and it may not get funded at all, but this at least 17 tells the public what we -- what it would have to have to be 18 able to consider it at all. And -- and those -- those 19 expenditures will take place this year, this fiscal year, 20 for consideration in the next one. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think what it 22 does -- in my opinion, what it does is it publicly puts Kerr 23 County Commissioners Court -- some of our money where our 24 conservation -- water conservation issues are. We put our 25 money where our mouth is with regard to water conservation. 71 1 And I see no harm in that. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other questions or 3 comments? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would move the 5 adoption, Judge, of the Rainwater Harvesting Tax Incentive 6 Program, a proposed component of the Kerr County Water 7 Conservation policy. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 10 Williams, second by Commissioner Griffin, that the Court 11 adopt the Rainwater Harvesting Incentive Program as a 12 component of the Kerr County Water Conservation policy. Any 13 questions or comments? All in favor, raise your right hand. 14 (Commissioners Williams and Griffin voted in favor of the motion.) 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed? 16 (Commissioners Baldwin and Letz voted against 17 the motion.) 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: The vote's two to two. 19 County Judge votes aye. Policy is adopted. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Congratulations, Bill. 21 Five times. 22 (Applause.) 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you very much. 24 Appreciate it. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Should we get law 72 1 enforcement in here for this rowdy crowd? Getting a little 2 wild back there. 3 (Discussion off the record.) 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: At this time, let's take our 5 break, and we'll come back promptly at 10:35. 6 (Recess taken from 10:20 p.m. to 10:35 p.m.) 7 - - - - - - - - - - 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: We'll reconvene this regular 9 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court. The next 10 item for consideration is Item Number 13, consider and 11 discuss Commissioners Court certification of a list of 12 organizations that use facilities of the Hill Country Youth 13 Exhibit Center for purposes of determining eligibility for 14 discounted fees, as proposed in Option 2 of the Exhibition 15 Center rate schedule. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We goofed. Let me 17 give you a copy of a letter that came in -- I think Jamie 18 put it in my box last week, one more letter. It sort of 19 addresses the problem. I think we thought we dealt with it 20 in its entirety in terms of who's eligible for what types of 21 discounts, discounted fees that were proposed as Option 2 -- 22 part of Option 2 when we set the new fees for the arena, and 23 the first crack out of the box, we get a question directed 24 at me -- well, it was two questions. Why do people have to 25 come ask me for approval? And they don't, and I don't know 73 1 where that got started. They come to Commissioners Court if 2 there's a problem. And the second is, who's going to make a 3 determination as to who's eligible and who's ineligible? I 4 think that's what this is all about, and I really think we 5 need to have some discussion with the folks at the Exhibit 6 Center who do the booking and who have to face these various 7 questions from time to time. I thought we had settled it, 8 but apparently we hadn't, so that's why it's back on. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think two things before 10 we -- on the agenda item, I think we settled it partially, 11 but I think we didn't really -- I think, as I recall, our 12 last motion was it's a 501(c)(3) or they come to Court to 13 get on our approved list, or actually "and" they have to 14 come to the Court to get on our approved list. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what I 16 thought, Commissioner. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We still need to do the 18 list. We never have voted on a list. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Even so -- and, 20 Glenn, you and Jamie better step up to the podium, because I 21 think there are some questions that are really going to have 22 to be addressed to you. I'm looking at the last page of 23 your backup material that talks about nonprofit events that 24 are booked from 2000 through 2002, and these are the ones 25 that we know have been accorded -- or wish to be accorded a 74 1 discount because of a not-for-profit status. Which is it? 2 Have been in the past, or wish to be, or both? 3 MS. HENDERSON: Actually, both. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 5 MS. HENDERSON: I listed the events that have 6 been nonprofit before, 'cause we never did a deduction rate, 7 really. We normally did either none -- they either paid 8 none or all. And then these are the ones also, like the 9 wild game dinner, that did not give me a call back before 10 the 14th, and which y'all had decided was going to be the 11 cutoff time for that, and they never called me back, so now 12 they're wanting to know if they're getting a deduction or 13 they're getting -- paying nothing. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, this is what 15 really precipitated -- the Mounted Peace Officer Wild Game 16 Dinner is what really precipitated this discussion. That's 17 the question that was directed to me, and so I guess the 18 Court has to decide it. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To me, I mean, it would 20 be simpler -- I mean, if they're a 501(c)(3), they -- you 21 know, they should get it. 'Cause that way it will keep all 22 of them from coming to the Court; they can make that 23 decision out there. I was not even aware of it until just a 24 second ago, the Secretary of State had a different 25 certification. To me, if they qualify for that, they ought 75 1 to automatically get it. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I was going to say 3 that's a different issue, but it's equivalency. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. The other -- and 5 if they're not one of these -- you know, either approved by 6 the State or approved by the I.R.S., I think the Court can 7 still give that nonprofit status if we so choose, but if 8 they qualify under those two, I don't see why we have to. 9 You know, it seems like a lot of extra work for those to 10 have to come to us when they can make that decision out 11 there. But the other thing that we need to decide is the 12 percent deduction, which we haven't discussed. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Jon, before you leave 14 the nonprofit thing, though, now, does that -- does that 15 include folks from outside our own area? Floresville, 16 Texas, or New York City or -- 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We had set up two 18 categories in that regards. I don't mean to jump in front 19 of Jon, but if you look at Option 2 on the -- on the sheet 20 -- the rate sheet that we adopted last time, we talked about 21 local commercial, nonlocal commercial, nonprofit local and 22 nonprofit out of our local and out of the county. So -- 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Not in Option 2. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's at the bottom of 25 the page. And I assume, Glenn, that it was your intention 76 1 that in the order in which they're rated, local commercial 2 was entitled to zero deduction, right? 3 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Nonlocal commercial, 5 you're saying they could get a 25 percent deduction? 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: That -- the deductions are 7 for nonprofit; they're not for commercial. 8 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yeah, nonprofit. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, there's only 10 two categories that are not-for-profit; out-of-county or in. 11 MR. HOLEKAMP: Nonprofit organizations may be 12 granted zero to 100 percent deduction in rates. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Who's going to make a 14 determination of which category it is? 15 MR. HOLEKAMP: Well, the classifications 16 which the Kerr County Commissioners Court listed here is 17 what it says on Option 2. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think we should have just 19 a -- you know, policy that out-of-county nonprofit is 20 entitled to a certain deduction, and in-county nonprofit is 21 entitled to a different deduction. 22 MR. HOLEKAMP: That's what we're asking for. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's, you know, based and 24 headquartered in Kerr County. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do all of the ones on the 77 1 list that you provided in the backup, are they -- do they 2 all have 501(c) status or state status? 3 MR. HOLEKAMP: We've never asked them for it, 4 so we're not sure at this point. Is that correct? 5 (Ms. Henderson nodded.) 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Some of them may not 7 even be incorporated; is that correct? 8 MR. HOLEKAMP: That is correct. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: As is the case with 10 this one where the Secretary of State certified the 11 corporation as a not-for-profit. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So if, historically, 13 we want to keep these at low or no cost, the ones on the 14 last page, then we do that by actual action today. We would 15 just put them on the list, even though they may be 16 unincorporated, and would -- in the future, those would be 17 done -- if they're 501(c)(3)'s, they would be done 18 automatically. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I guess that's 20 what they're asking, so we don't have to be making a 21 decision every time that somebody comes out there. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On the nonprofits, in the 23 past, they haven't been charged anything? 24 MR. HOLEKAMP: That's correct. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Utility hookup or 78 1 anything? Absolutely nothing? 2 MR. HOLEKAMP: No, nothing. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would almost say 4 that -- I mean, I don't know that we should be 100 percent 5 -- I mean, that we should be, I guess, subsidizing 6 nonprofits out there. As I looked at the list, there's only 7 one that you gave to me that pays no rates, and that's the 8 Hill Country District Junior Livestock Show. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Fundraiser. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Fundraiser. And their 11 use of it for the show. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Sure. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Those are zero. To me, 14 the other ones that are local should get, maybe, a -- you 15 know, pay 25 percent, you know, of the rate. And 16 out-of-town ones, you know, 50 or 75 -- 50 percent, 17 something like that. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what I was 19 thinking. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Because I don't think 21 it's right for us to pay 100 percent -- I mean, to cost the 22 County money to hold anyone out there, other than the stock 23 show. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would -- that 25 would probably cover the cost of utilities and setup 79 1 charges. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Mm-hmm. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which other folks pay 4 for; is that correct? Other folks pay a utility charge? 5 MS. HENDERSON: Correct. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Setup charge? 7 MR. HOLEKAMP: That is correct. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: The deduction we're talking 9 about, does that relate to all of the charges? Or just the 10 rental fee for the facility? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think all the charges. 12 Because, I mean, the ones that use -- you know, something 13 like the fair, if they're using -- they use the whole 14 facility. They should be at a different basis than the 15 garage sale, which I assume is using, you know, a very small 16 section. I mean, I don't -- it should be whatever they're 17 using, 'cause you pay 25 percent of the total of whatever 18 they're using, or 50 percent. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, I -- I think that we 20 ought to give them a break on the fee for the facility, but 21 not the -- the electric hookup for the -- 22 MR. HOLEKAMP: Electric hookup, or you could 23 use it as a utility charge, electrical charge, whatever. I 24 think that was discussed at one point, where those are 25 fixed, whether you turn on electricity or not. And I don't 80 1 know if it's a flat fee or if it's a -- I would think a flat 2 fee would probably be the most -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, flat fee based 4 on what? If one organization comes in and is eligible for a 5 discount and we're talking about a utility charge, and this 6 organization only uses the Exhibit Center, the flat fee for 7 utilities in the Exhibit Center is going to be considerably 8 different than the flat fee for the whole facility, right? 9 MR. HOLEKAMP: Absolutely. But, see, here 10 every one of them except for the Kerr County Fair are just 11 an evening-type function or afternoon-type function. It's 12 really not a -- a several-day operation. So, you could 13 probably base it on a 6-hour function. The only other one 14 would be Law Enforcement Youth Awareness Day, which is a -- 15 that's all day. But, really, as far as utilities are 16 concerned, it's very minimal, because it's a -- they bring 17 kids in to look at different booths, you know, in the arena, 18 so there's really not -- and there's not much of a setup 19 involved. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I mean, and I think 21 also -- I mean, Kerr County, like the Sheriff's 22 Department -- I mean, we don't charge our own departments. 23 That should also be exempt. I think they shouldn't have to 24 pay a fee; that doesn't make sense. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What about the Kerr 81 1 County Fair? 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Not a part of Kerr County. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's different. I 4 mean, the Sheriff's Department, we fund. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand it's 6 different, but golly, seems like to me the fair is kind of a 7 -- kind of like the stock show, almost. Almost. Not quite, 8 but almost. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I -- you know, it depends 10 on -- that's why it's before the Court, because it's -- 11 MR. HOLEKAMP: It's very difficult. It's 12 just like -- I'm going to use K.I.S.D. Teacher Appreciation 13 Banquet. What that is, is a two-, three-hour thing in the 14 evening, and the in the Exhibition Hall, the tables and 15 chairs. I mean, they just needed a place where they could 16 put, what, 250 people? Yeah. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Do we have -- do you 18 have somebody there during the event? 19 MR. HOLEKAMP: Normally we do, yes. 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes. So, there's a 21 minimal cost, but -- 22 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yeah, it's very minimal. But, 23 there again, it's where -- that's a real difficult one, when 24 you start talking about those types of -- like, the 25 Sheriff's Department Police Academy Banquet. 82 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, in each of 2 these cases, Glenn, do we do the setup and the take-down? 3 MR. HOLEKAMP: Normally, yes. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Sheriff? 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Only thing I have to 7 say -- of course, a lot of that setup and take-down, I 8 think, is done by trustees, isn't it? But, the -- the main 9 question I'm asking, such as the Hill Country Mounted Peace 10 Officers Association, you know, the -- the one thing about 11 that is the assistance and help that they give the county, 12 as far as law enforcement during the entire year; you know, 13 the fire situation, the manhunts we have. They bring out 14 their own command post, set it up, you know, hook up 15 electricity. I mean, there's a lot of things they do for 16 us. Donated to the bulletproof vest program, things like 17 that. I'd hate to -- to see us turn around then and start 18 having to charge some of these that really do give back to 19 the county in -- in ways and sums that, you know, we 20 couldn't even really say, and the County turns around and is 21 just going to start charging them for a one-night deal or 22 something. I'd hate to see that. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And the K.I.S.D. 24 Teacher Appreciation, those people handle our children, the 25 future of our great county. 83 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, we do -- the 2 Mounted Peace Officers also do that Law Enforcement 3 Awareness Day for the kids, which to me is a public service 4 and a public deal to educate kids and let them see what -- 5 you know, not just law enforcement; 911 is normally out 6 there, KPUB's out there, you know, different ones at that 7 Appreciation Day, let them get educated. It's an 8 educational deal. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You could say those 10 things about almost everybody on this list. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I agree. That's why I 12 said it's a hard deal to decide. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Looking at that list, 14 excluding the fair, each one of these just uses the Exhibit 15 Center, correct? 16 MR. HOLEKAMP: No -- yeah. 17 MS. HENDERSON: The meat goat producers 18 gathering. 19 MR. HOLEKAMP: But that's an Extension -- 20 MS. HENDERSON: Yeah, that's an Extension. 21 MR. HOLEKAMP: That shouldn't even really be 22 on there, because that is an Extension-sponsored -- 23 MS. HENDERSON: They either use the Exhibit 24 Hall or the indoor arena, normally. They don't normally use 25 the whole fairgrounds. 84 1 MR. HOLEKAMP: The rest of those are -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: These are all locals? I 3 mean -- 4 MR. HOLEKAMP: Oh, yes. Yes, sir. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Question, Jamie. 6 Where did this one -- I want you to take the letter back. 7 It was addressed to you guys. Where does Run and Rope Youth 8 Association -- where does it fit in this? 9 MS. HENDERSON: This came in the mail to me. 10 A lady called me and said she wanted to not pay -- first of 11 all was she wanted a deduction on the arena. She also 12 wanted to work the stalls themselves, but they got to keep 13 the money that they charged for the stalls, so basically 14 they were charging for the stalls instead of us charging for 15 them. And I asked her if she was a nonprofit organization; 16 she said yes. So, she sent me this as proof, I'm guessing. 17 And, I -- you know, this is why I'm here. I have no idea 18 what I'm supposed to do from here, what deduction I'm 19 supposed to give her. 20 MR. HOLEKAMP: Well, she's asking -- she's 21 asking for everything to be free, basically. And she is in 22 error in here; the Kerrville Fair Association does not 23 collect fees from the stalls and hookups. That's Kerr 24 County. I mean, she just doesn't -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: See -- excuse me. To 85 1 me, this organization right here, that -- which the 2 Secretary of State says that they are a certain 3 classification, to me, they should get a 50 percent 4 reduction. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: All fees, or rental 6 fees? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Everything. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: All fees. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's easier for me that 10 way, all fees. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If you keep going into 12 the micro stuff, I mean, we're going to start -- you know, 13 how many commodes did they use while they were here? You 14 know, that kind of thing. 15 (Discussion off the record.) 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If we went to -- I mean, 17 most of these on the list use the Exhibit Hall. And if they 18 used it for -- I mean, if they were charging -- will you 19 charge them -- you charge them a one-day usage, correct? Or 20 will you charge them by the hour for an evening function? 21 Like, say, there's a commercial -- say the K.I.S.D. 22 Appreciation thing was a wedding, and they were going to use 23 it for three hours. Are they charged for a day or for three 24 hours? 25 MS. HENDERSON: A day. 86 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: A day. Take 25 percent 2 of $250 and -- $75? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: $62.50. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: $62.50. To me, that is 5 not an unreasonable fee. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: For someone to use that. 8 I don't think it's right -- every one of these organizations 9 helps the community. But, also, I don't think that the 10 County should be subsidizing specific charities. And I 11 think, by charging a minimal fee that at least covers the 12 time of -- some of the setup time and -- really not the 13 setup time much; a lot of that is done by community service 14 or by trustees, but we do have supervisors out there. Mike 15 has to be there, primarily, or somebody. And we shouldn't 16 be subsidizing at 100 percent. So, to me, 25 percent 17 reduction for, you know, everyone on the list except the 18 Hill Country stock show -- Hill Country District Junior 19 Livestock Show should get zero, because that's under 20 separate agreement. Everybody else that's local pays 21 25 percent of the rate, whatever that rate would be. And if 22 you're out-of-town, pay 50 percent. And if you want to come 23 back to the county under -- like, somebody in the fair wants 24 to come to us and work out a separate deal, we'll entertain 25 that at that time. That gets us moving forward, and if it 87 1 doesn't work, we can always adjust it. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Is that a motion? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's a motion. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll second. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If you can repeat it, -- 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. I'll second it. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- Judge. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner Letz, 9 second by Commissioner Williams, that the Court adopt a 10 policy that nonprofit organizations, being defined as 11 organizations that have a 501(c)(3) exemption from the 12 Internal Revenue Service, or nonprofit corporation status 13 from the State of Texas, headquartered and based in Kerr 14 County, receive a 75 percent reduction in the rates, and 15 that a nonprofit organization, defined the same way, based 16 and headquartered outside of Kerr County receive a 17 50 percent reduction in rates, with the exception of the 18 Kerr County Junior District Livestock Show Association, 19 which is covered by a separate agreement. Any questions or 20 comments? 21 MR. HOLEKAMP: All right. The letter from 22 the -- the Run and Rope thing that y'all received, based on 23 what y'all are saying, that will be approximately a 24 50 percent deduct in fees; is that correct? 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Correct. 88 1 MR. HOLEKAMP: All right. Now, instead of 2 $10 a stall, it's $5 a stall? Or were you talking about the 3 buildings and the setup? Are you talking about everything? 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: The motion was everything. 5 MR. HOLEKAMP: Everything, okay. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Technical question 7 that perhaps the way the order is now -- would now be worded 8 is, it's 501(c)(3)'s, and I think maybe we want to change 9 that to a 501(c), because there are (c)(6)'s which would 10 also apply, but they're all nonprofit and/or charitable 11 organizations. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Change the type. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Should be a 501(c). And, 14 also, everyone needs to understand, by definition, a 15 political entity has the same status as a nonprofit 16 organization. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's right. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: So Kerr County, K.I.S.D., 19 they all fall under the nonprofit grouping. Clear enough to 20 move forward? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, those are the 22 folks that have to administer it. Is that clear enough for 23 you guys? 24 MR. HOLEKAMP: We'll give it a try. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think the understanding is, 89 1 if someone wants to -- you know, to ask for zero fee or 2 something like that, they have to come to the Court. 3 MS. HENDERSON: Okay. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Y'all cannot administer that. 5 If the fair wants to come in and say, "Well, we don't think 6 we should pay anything because of all these things," tell 7 them, "We don't disagree with you. You just need to put it 8 on the agenda and take it to the Commissioners Court." 9 MS. HENDERSON: All right. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If they're happy, 11 bring them to Court. If they're angry, send them to Bill 12 Williams. 13 MR. HOLEKAMP: One entity indicated to Jamie 14 and us that since this is -- out-of-county is a different 15 charge than in-county -- 16 MS. HENDERSON: They were going to find 17 someone within the county to do the rental so they could get 18 that rate. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that's a 20 little -- 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: The motion is "based and 22 headquartered." 23 MR. HOLEKAMP: Can I get a copy of that 24 order? So -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, absolutely not. 90 1 MR. HOLEKAMP: Because we'll have to mail it 2 to these people. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would be a 4 subversion of the court order. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes. Based and 6 headquartered. It's where they are based and headquartered. 7 MR. HOLEKAMP: I understood that, because it 8 needs to -- 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other discussion? Any 10 other questions or comments? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Only other comment on the 12 "based and headquartered," not like -- it might be an 13 organization like Little League, which never has used that 14 facility, but we loan them a lot of stuff. Anyway, 15 different story. They're not based -- technically, that's 16 based nationally, but there's a local organization. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: They have a charter. They 18 have a local charter. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, but it's based 20 under national charter. I mean, the designation is held in 21 Williamsport, not held in Kerr County. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yeah, but the Kerrville 23 Little League is -- charter is based in Kerr County. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Just like a lot of the 91 1 national organizations, you have to have a local 2 organization, like Y.M.C.A. All right. Ready to vote? All 3 in favor, raise your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Next item 8 for consideration is to consider and discuss holding a 9 workshop on county technology utilization in January 2002 10 and set a date and time for such workshop. Commissioner 11 Griffin. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes. It's no secret 13 that the age of high technology growth is upon us in county 14 government, as it is in every other sector of our economic 15 and cultural community, and -- and the purpose, that I think 16 this is a -- would be a great time for us to sit back and 17 review, in a workshop environment, where the County stands 18 in -- in actually using and -- and exploiting the technology 19 that's available to us today. Not so much as to try to 20 figure out exactly what we're going to do next year or next 21 month, but to at least give us all the background and the 22 information that we can amongst ourselves, particularly 23 within the county, on what do we have already that we're not 24 using? What computer capability do we have? What -- what 25 is there out there that may be available from the State? 92 1 And maybe there's nothing, but in the area of law 2 enforcement or county clerks or district clerks or whatever, 3 what's out there that we might be able to exploit with the 4 equipment that we've got today, with a little bit of 5 reprogramming, perhaps, or just using what's already 6 available to us? That would be the real thrust. 7 We could also take a look downstream and see 8 where are we headed. Where are we headed in e-government, 9 for example? And I think all of us that get the County 10 magazine and some of those publications know that the State 11 has a lot of initiatives going, that counties have done 12 quite a bit in this area; some more, some less than us, and 13 we've just stuck our foot into it with a -- certainly, with 14 the web site. But, where can that lead us? And this would 15 be a -- in a workshop environment. Needs to be something 16 where you don't have to be a computer expert. But the 17 County Clerk, for example, through your organization, 18 Jannett, would -- you may have attended some seminars or 19 some of your training sessions where they've talked about 20 things that the clerks are doing that can either be tied to 21 a computer system, or perhaps it's a phone system; not 22 necessarily computerized here. 23 But -- but the point is, is that we would 24 look in this workshop for all of the department heads and 25 elected officials to sort of tell us where your area of 93 1 expertise is headed, statewide and in the counties, and what 2 do you hear and what would be something good to have? We 3 may hear more about scanners and printer-readers and all 4 those sort of things that we hear about from time to time; 5 at budget time, usually. And -- and what are those things 6 that could be of advantage to us? And, that would be the 7 thrust of this. That would be the purpose of this. But not 8 to necessarily lay out expenditure of funds, but at least, 9 if there's something that we think we ought to be thinking 10 about three years down the road, two years down the road, 11 ten years down the road, let's get it on the table and talk 12 about it. That's the real purpose of this thing. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Commissioner, I just 14 returned from a TAC board meeting at the end of last week, 15 and TAC is putting together a pretty good-size program, and 16 I just -- lack of knowledge; I'm not even going to attempt 17 to get into it, but I do have the paperwork with me that 18 I'll provide you. And they are in the process of doing some 19 pilot programs in some counties as we speak, and it's pretty 20 interesting things going on. And the gentleman that's 21 heading that up, his name is Stan Reid. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Oh, yeah. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So I'm sure that Stan 24 would be happy to come over here -- 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That'd be great. 94 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm positive Stan 2 would be happy to come over here and do a short 3 presentation. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Call his mama; she'll tell 5 him to come over. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what I'm 7 saying. We can get Stan over here. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's an excellent 9 idea. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They're doing all 11 kinds of pretty neat stuff. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Do you have a date in mind, 13 Commissioner? 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes. I'll make the 15 motion that we set a workshop on the county technology 16 utilization on January the 28th at 1:30 p.m. That's the 17 afternoon of our second court session in January. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Do we have a second? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 21 Griffin, second by Commissioner Letz, that the Court set a 22 workshop on county technology utilization for January 28, 23 Year 2002, at 1:30 p.m., here in the Kerr County Courthouse. 24 Any questions or comments? If not, all in favor, raise your 25 right hand. 95 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Next item 5 for consideration is to consider and discuss the approval of 6 a slate of Commissioners for the Kerr County Rural Fire 7 District Number 1. Commissioner Griffin. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes. In the backup 9 page there that you have is a copy of a letter from Elaine 10 Casteel, who's the president of the Fire District. This 11 is -- for those that may not know it off the top of their 12 head, this is the Ingram fire district. They have just had 13 elections of their slate of -- of the Board of 14 Commissioners. They would be retaining Donald C. Oehler and 15 Bruce M. Bond, and also, electing -- they elected Kenneth W. 16 Wood, who is a resident of Bear Paw Subdivision and has a 17 good background for this sort of thing. We are required to 18 approve their slate, and I would make a motion that we 19 approve the slate as presented with those three individuals. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 22 Griffin, second by Commissioner Baldwin, that the Court 23 approve the slate of Commissioners for the Kerr County Rural 24 Fire District Number 1, as presented by letter dated 25 November 28, Year 2001, from Elaine Casteel, President of 96 1 the Kerr County Rural Fire District Number 1. Any questions 2 or comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Next item 7 for consideration is consider and discuss the procedure for 8 compiling or summarizing the Commissioners Court evaluations 9 of department heads and County personnel appointed by the 10 Commissioners Court, discussing those evaluations with the 11 person in question, and recommending any personnel actions 12 arising from the evaluations. A bit of a reminder; last 13 January, I believe it was, we adopted a form and a policy of 14 evaluating the non-elected department heads and other 15 personnel appointed by the Commissioners Court on an annual 16 basis. I have sent out to each of the Commissioners those 17 evaluation forms, and ask you to have them back to me by the 18 end of this month. The question now becomes, after we 19 receive those back, how we're going to utilize them 20 effectively. And this is not a decision for me; this is a 21 decision for us, so I throw it open for discussion at this 22 time. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- I mean, the 24 way -- best way, probably, to do it is to just compile all 25 of the results on one sheet, and I'm indifferent whether we 97 1 average them or -- or let each individual -- you know, with 2 a name or not a name, but anyway, give that to the 3 employees, and then if they choose to want to meet with us, 4 they meet with the entire court. If they -- if they just 5 throw it away or read it or whatever they want to do with 6 it, that's fine, but I think we should, you know, provide 7 that to them, and then it's up to them if they want to come 8 to the court. But I don't think they should meet -- if they 9 want to meet with just one Commissioner or the Judge 10 one-on-one, that's fine, but if they want anything official, 11 it needs to be before the full court. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That could be in 13 executive session or open session, at their choice. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's fine. I don't have a 16 problem with that. The -- the next step -- or another step 17 is, what if there's any employment action that we 18 collectively, or one of us individually, feels needs to be 19 made as a result of evaluations? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It comes to the court as 21 an executive -- I mean -- 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: But, I mean, who initiates 23 that? Does any Commissioner or myself put on the agenda to 24 consider and discuss whatever? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. I think any 98 1 Commissioner can do it, or Judge can do it. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Sure. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm a little bit 5 different from Jon's theory on how to deal with it. I like 6 that -- I really hadn't thought about that, but I've always 7 been of the mind that -- that each individual would come 8 in -- if we don't have each individual come in, we miss an 9 opportunity to encourage people. And I think, you know, 10 it's -- an evaluation is a tool, not only to demerit, but to 11 encourage, and I kind of like that. You know, it's really 12 the only opportunity that we can sit here and say, "You're 13 doing an exemplary job. We salute you, and keep up the good 14 work, and don't ask for any more money" kind of thing. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You talking about 16 appearance before the court in a personal executive session? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: If they want. I mean, 19 it could be in an open session. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think Buster's saying just 21 to schedule everybody in. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what I'm 23 saying, is to schedule everyone. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: And, you know, we can -- the 25 individual in question has the ability to make it open 99 1 session if they desire. I believe they start out in 2 executive session. 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: And the individual in 5 question has the ability to request that it be in closed 6 session. But I think what Commissioner Baldwin suggests, 7 instead of putting it in the -- that the employee can 8 request -- 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: They don't have to do 10 it. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Just go ahead and schedule 12 them, and provide the feedback to the employee at that time. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't have a problem 14 with doing it either way. The reason I thought -- I mean, 15 my recommended way was that I think it's intimidating to a 16 lot of the employees to have to meet, I mean, five-on-one. 17 And, you know, it's a difficult -- and I think it's awkward 18 for a lot of them. And I think -- you know, I just don't 19 see any reason to require them. I wouldn't mind maybe 20 scheduling a day, you know, and have a time set up for each 21 one, but requiring them to come sit before us, I just -- to 22 me, it's a little bit -- can be overbearing. 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Well, how about doing 24 it -- if they don't want to do it then, they just don't have 25 to. They just let us know that they're not going to be at 100 1 their scheduled time. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would tend to agree 3 with Jonathan in terms of just a review, but if there is 4 some action required as a result of the review, that's a 5 whole different issue. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree. 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: The Judge's question, 8 though -- I think it was a good one -- is that that would 9 have to be initiated by somebody on the Court. It always 10 would have to be initiated by somebody on the Court. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think it would be a 12 good idea, probably, to set it up on one afternoon or one 13 morning, whatever, one time, and have it set up for everyone 14 to come at one time. So, kind of like a -- a time definite, 15 you know, a schedule, so it doesn't linger on through 16 February. We're going to do it on, say, January 15th, and 17 set up a time and, you know, encourage them to come, 'cause 18 I think it's good, but I just -- you know, if they don't 19 want to come, I don't think we should require them. Doesn't 20 make that much difference. I don't have a strong feeling 21 one way or another if it's required or their option, but I 22 think it should be a -- an afternoon, or we, you know, have 23 a time to do it. 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It would be -- I want 25 to make sure I got this right. It would be in executive 101 1 session for us, a closed meeting, but the employee would 2 have the option of requesting that it be in an open meeting. 3 I think that's what it means. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yeah, that's my understanding 5 of the requirement. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One exception to what 7 you said, Jon, was whether or not an employee opts to appear 8 before whomever -- we haven't decided that yet -- for the 9 review portion, right? If we know in advance that the -- 10 that the results of the review very well could lend itself 11 to some other type of action, that employee ought to be 12 required to come, because you don't want to say anything 13 about him later -- say, "Oh, yeah, you didn't show up 14 such-and-such day, but tomorrow we're going to have a court 15 session, personnel executive, and the axe is coming down. 16 So that's -- I mean, there has to be some basis for them 17 knowing full well what it's all about. That's my only 18 point. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's a good point. And 20 with that, maybe we'd better require them all. You'd hate 21 to say -- kind of like if you get, "You must appear," you 22 know you're in trouble. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think that we're getting to 24 where -- you know, that -- well, what I'm hearing is the 25 Court would like to schedule an afternoon where all the 102 1 evaluated employees have a defined time to come and 2 participate in their review. I think it is a participatory 3 thing, like Commissioner Baldwin points out. You want -- 4 it's not us looking down; it's trying to engage in how we 5 can improve the whole operation. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- reminder; I 7 think we should probably meet at the table, as opposed to up 8 here. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes. How about a 11 spotlight? 12 (Laughter.) 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And one chair? 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: With us totally in the 15 dark. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, then, I guess the 17 part we haven't discussed is how to compile the data. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And what's sent to the 20 employee -- given to the employee. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, I -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Who's going to do it? 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think the employee has a 25 right to have a copy of the evaluation. 103 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Of each? 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Of each. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Each evaluation. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: What I would suggest is that 5 we have -- just have to make a packet for each employee. 6 "Here are your five evaluations, here's your time, and your 7 review will be conducted at a certain day." And, we 8 probably ought to set those up, really, in a workshop, so 9 it's just a review. Any action that has to be taken then 10 would have to be placed on an agenda. Or would you rather 11 have it set up so that -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's in a workshop? 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Just the review. So, we have 14 two things. We want to review their evaluations, and the 15 second issue is, we want to -- that came up about what if 16 there's any action that needs to be taken. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Give me an example of 18 what kind of action might be taken. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Let's just say we have an 20 employee, and the employee has been picked up for a serious 21 violation of the law. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And we need to 23 terminate them. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: We need to terminate them, 25 exactly. Do we want the ability to take the personnel 104 1 action at the same time we do the review? Or do we want to 2 separate the review from the personnel action? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, you're saying the 4 executive -- the workshop's in executive session? 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Workshops will be in 6 executive session unless the employee wants it to be in open 7 session, which they have the right to do. And then, if, as 8 a result of the reviews and/or the evaluations, there's an 9 action that has to be taken, a termination, a suspension, do 10 we want to have the ability to do that at that time? Or do 11 we want to separate those in time so that we have to put it 12 on the agenda for court -- 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think you ought to 14 separate them, and I'll tell you why. Because it's more due 15 process that way. If the review is for employee 16 performance, it has nothing directly to do with a felony 17 pickup or something. But you want -- you would have the -- 18 you have the ability at any time to address a personnel 19 action in executive session on our agenda, and I think that 20 would be the proper time to put any personnel actions on, 21 would be in a formal executive session, with the employee, 22 of course, having the right to -- to demand an open session. 23 But I think this review is separate from that. In my mind 24 it is, anyway, because the other aspect of it could happen 25 any time, not just as a part of this review. It could 105 1 happen any time. If somebody committed a felony and we had 2 to terminate them, and -- I mean, not committed, but was 3 judged guilty. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree with that. 5 We ought to separate them. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me give you an 7 example of what I had been through before. Not picking on 8 Franklin; I'm just using his position as an example. We 9 went through that one time with the unit road system head, 10 and the law requires you -- I mean, there's public 11 hearings -- 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All kind of little 14 things. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Due process. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, that you have 17 to -- that they require you to do. And, so, I don't -- 18 that's the only one I know about. 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's the reason I 20 think it would be better to have -- any personnel action 21 should be separately addressed. We would get legal 22 assistance and all that. This review is just -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- to talk about 25 employee performance, and mostly in the positive side, 106 1 obviously. But -- and areas that could be improved and so 2 on. So, I just think we ought to separate the two and not 3 try to do it as part of the workshop if there is an employee 4 action that comes out of this. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Do we think we need a 8 court order to that effect? I don't necessarily think we 9 do. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I think we do, 11 so there's no doubt in anybody's mind what we talked about 12 and what we -- what the game plan is. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll let you frame 15 the motion. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Is that a motion? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. I'll move what 18 you frame, if I like what I hear. 19 (Laughter.) 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Do we have a tentative 21 second? 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right, we have a 23 tentative second. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 25 Williams, second by Commissioner Griffin, that the Court 107 1 adopt the procedure that the evaluations of the non-elected 2 department heads or other individuals appointed or employed 3 directly by the Commissioners Court will be conducted in a 4 workshop in the month of January, following receipt of all 5 the evaluations, and that the employee will be provided, 6 prior to the evaluation -- prior to the review, with a copy 7 of each evaluation, and that any personnel action that's 8 required as a result of the evaluations will be -- will not 9 be taken at that workshop, but will be scheduled for a 10 separate Commissioners Court meeting. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sounds good. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Is that close enough? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Close enough. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: I want everybody to be 15 comfortable with this. Okay. All in favor, raise your 16 right hand. 17 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Opposed, same sign. 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. The next 21 item for consideration is consider and discuss retention of 22 outside counsel to complete the lease negotiation for the 23 radio tower leases in conjunction with the Sheriff's 24 Department radio project, and utilize the excess funds in 25 the County Attorney's Assistant Salaries line item to pay 108 1 for such outside counsel. Sheriff, you and I are on the 2 hook for this. I'm going to defer to you. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: My copy says you are. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: It says down there, name of 5 person addressing the Court, Judge and Sheriff. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Mine just says, 7 parentheses, Judge. All this is, is on the tower leases, 8 the L.C.R.A. leases and the Five Star Cellular tower leases, 9 we're still trying to get those done. Dailey Wells has said 10 that they're ready. They need to apply for all the 11 licenses, the F.C.C. licenses, to be able to get us licensed 12 for each tower. Problem is, we don't have any signed 13 contracts yet with those -- with L.C.R.A. and with Five 14 Star. I have discussed this with the County Judge and David 15 Motley on numerous occasions. David has a lot of irons in 16 the fire that are slowing him up, I think, drastically. 17 He's short one person in the County Attorney's office, one 18 assistant attorney. He seems to be having problems hiring 19 one. But this really needs to get moving now, because it is 20 a very important project to get going. And, on the Five 21 Star one, there's going to most likely be some things we 22 have to do as the County, and -- maintenance division, on 23 constructing the fence and on the road, but it's just 24 something -- I hate to let it just sit, and that's where 25 we've been. I'd like to see those contracts signed as soon 109 1 as possible so that we can get this on down the road. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Rusty, if I remember, 3 there are some things with the tower people, the tower -- 4 the folks that are to erect the towers, themselves, that has 5 to be done in January. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: In our little 8 timetable, there was something that had to be done in 9 January, and that all hinges on -- they can't come out -- 10 they can't leave the office until we get this done. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Everything hinges on 12 these leases being signed -- these contracts being signed. 13 I don't remember what the -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But the first step, 15 there was a January date. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't remember 17 exactly. I'd have to go look back -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm telling you there 19 is. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- at a timetable of 21 what we were doing. But, you know, everything -- they can't 22 start doing any work until we get the F.C.C. licenses. You 23 know, we can't start building the fence or doing the roads 24 until -- to get all that stuff ready and organized until we 25 get these contracts signed, 'cause we don't know what the 110 1 final details on the contracts are going to be. They can't 2 start bringing up any equipment; nothing can be done until 3 these contracts are done. And it's been since the day 4 the -- the project was awarded to Dailey Wells that we've, 5 you know, been sitting on this. I'd like, in some ways -- 6 and I know David's looked at it some. I know he was advised 7 of the court meeting today so that he could be here. And I 8 know he is short-handed; I'm not trying to downplay David. 9 It's just that this is a time-sensitive deal. This is a -- 10 a very, very important project, to get our radio system up 11 and going correctly. We originally were hoping to have it 12 online totally by February -- end of February or March. 13 And, you know, we sat here two months, I think, and haven't 14 even gotten the leases done, so I think we're running 15 behind. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, it's a fair 17 assumption the whole project has slipped by 60, 90, or 120 18 days; is that correct? 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Slipped by every day we 20 don't get those leases signed. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I'm not opposed 22 to getting outside counsel at all. I -- but I think it 23 needs to be paid out of the Professional Services; that's 24 what the line is for. Just my only -- my only hangup. And 25 I'm not so hung up on that that I won't eat lunch with you 111 1 guys. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, we've got to get it 3 going. We've had the draft of the L.C.R.A. lease for -- 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: See, there's actually 5 four contracts. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- 30 days or 60 days. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: One for each tower. The 8 contract with Dailey Wells has already been signed on what 9 they have to do and getting the equipment. It's just that 10 the individuals -- the four lease contracts -- I know 11 L.C.R.A. had sent two rough drafts up to the Judge that the 12 Judge has looked at, I've looked at, Motley looked at. I 13 don't know what Motley's opinion actually was, other than I 14 think he sent them back saying he doesn't see anything wrong 15 with them. But the Five Star contracts had to be drawn up. 16 I heard that there is a rough draft of them, but I haven't 17 seen anything. Nothing's come across. I don't have any 18 feedback from the County Attorney. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, would you use 20 Mr. Pollard? Or -- 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: I have spoken to Tom, and Tom 22 -- Mr. Pollard has said that he would make himself 23 available. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Great. Fantastic. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The question is, from 112 1 what line item do we pay for it? I'm kind of like 2 Commissioner Baldwin; I'm not opposed to it at all. I want 3 to get it moving immediately. The question is, who pays? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, Professional 5 Services -- that's what that line is there for, in my 6 opinion. 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What I've always used 9 it for. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Do I hear a motion? 11 That sounds pretty good to me. We want to get it moving. 12 Let's see. I'll make the motion that we -- that we engage 13 an outside counsel to complete the lease negotiations with 14 the -- on the tower leases in conjunction with the Sheriff's 15 Department radio project, and the funds be taken out of 16 Professional Services. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 19 Griffin, second by Commissioner Baldwin, that the Court 20 authorize retention of outside counsel to complete the lease 21 negotiations for radio tower leases in conjunction with the 22 Sheriff's Department radio project, and to take the money 23 for such services from the Professional Services line item 24 in the Commissioners Court budget. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Question. 113 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Has the basic 3 contract with Wells be reviewed? Or are we starting from 4 that? 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, the contract with 6 Wells -- Dailey Wells has been signed. It's in place. It's 7 just these tower leases. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, it's all the 9 subsequent agreements, then, that have to be looked at. 10 Okay, thank you. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other questions or 12 comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Okay. At 17 this time, we'll stand in recess until 1:30. 18 (Discussion off the record.) 19 (Recess from 11:25 a.m. to 1:30 p.m.) 20 - - - - - - - - - - 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's 1:30 in the afternoon on 22 Monday, December 10, Year 2001. We'll call to order this 23 regular session of the Kerr County Commissioners Court. The 24 item for discussion at this time is to consider and discuss 25 County notification procedures to road name changes and 911. 114 1 Commissioner Letz, this is your tar baby. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I like that term. I put 3 this on the agenda mainly because at our last meeting, we, I 4 think by consensus -- I don't recall us ever voting -- 5 changed our procedures basically by having Road and Bridge 6 quit putting up road signs for a while. We discussed that; 7 we never voted on it. Anyway, I was talking to Truby right 8 after the meeting, and it dawned on me that we never voted 9 on that, but we kind of decided to do it, but no one was -- 10 I just happened to think to tell Truby at the time. So, 11 anyway, I thought it would be good to put it on the agenda 12 to kind of work -- to make sure this really is more of a -- 13 well, it is entirely a County discussion today from the 14 standpoint of what the County's doing on notification and 15 how we're, you know, working. Paula Rector had some 16 concerns about road name changes and how she got into the 17 mix. 18 In the backup, there's a list of everyone 19 that Jannett notifies and when she does that, and it just 20 seems to me that we need to make sure that -- that we have 21 this procedure down pat and we're not -- don't have any more 22 confusion, as we've had in certain areas of the -- 23 Commissioner 1's area. And I'd like to introduce two people 24 that came in from the post office in Comfort that I invited, 25 just to have a representative. Ray Acevedo is the 115 1 Postmaster in Comfort, and Anthony Bohnert, longtime friend, 2 in delivery. Anyway, so that's kind of where we are. 3 There's some backup in the -- that I provided, two things. 4 One is the Road and Bridge procedures, what Truby is 5 currently doing, and along with the -- you know, when 6 she's -- or when Road and Bridge is currently going out and 7 putting up signs. And then the second item is the 8 distribution list that Jannett uses to -- as soon as we have 9 a court order approved. And, mainly, I just want to make 10 sure that we're all on the same page, and that was the 11 intent on this. From our last meeting, it sounds like, at a 12 minimum, the 45-day period is on hold for the time being; 13 that we're not putting up any more road signs until 14 everything is worked out between all name changes and the 15 Post Office. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's sort of where 17 we were headed last time. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And if that -- you know, 20 and I think that probably necessitates changing something -- 21 some of this stuff. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And just kind of, you 24 know, open it up for any comments. Dave's here, I know, 25 from 911, and I know -- Paula, I don't know what you -- you 116 1 know, what you need and when you need it, but, you know, we 2 just need to make sure that, from a voting standpoint, that 3 is all taken care of. I think a lot of it from the current 4 mailouts is taken care of. The Post Office will recognize 5 name changes, you know, for a 12-month period, and you're 6 going to use the current old mailing addresses for everybody 7 you currently have on file, and they should all be 8 delivered. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That was going to be 10 my first question. That still is the rule, is it not? 11 MR. ACEVEDO: Right. There's -- you work 12 through the Post Office. The way I've received it at other 13 offices I've worked at is, we receive a notification from 14 the County showing the old address, the new address, and 15 what we've done -- or what I did is help the -- the 911 16 people in making sure that the names matched up with the 17 properties and stuff, because a lot of times the property 18 owner isn't exactly the person that's staying there at 19 the -- at that location. Now, a question I would have is -- 20 is, we're guided by the San Antonio district office, and 21 they pretty much tell us how it's going to work or what -- 22 when things are going to go ahead and come out, as far as 23 the names and when we're supposed to implement and stuff 24 like that. Now, has there been -- I guess what I'm asking 25 is, has Cindy -- Cindy Guerrero, the one that works in the 117 1 district office, has she -- is she part of the whole 2 coordination and stuff? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes. Yes. 4 MR. ACEVEDO: She is, okay. So, really, I 5 would be working through her, or I would be calling her to 6 find out exactly what is going to happen, stuff like that, 7 in the changeover. You know, so I just assume that y'all 8 work through her and tell her that we're going to do this at 9 this time, and we're going to be sending out the changes and 10 stuff. Or is that not the way it works? 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Well, I think that's 12 the way it started to work after we talked about it last 13 time, or at least that's the way it was working in our 14 minds. And that confirms what you found out, Buster, 15 that -- that we need to get that information into San 16 Antonio, into Cindy Guerrero's hands, and that, really, the 17 trigger should be when we notify her of the date of 18 implementation, then she will notify the Post Office. 19 MR. ACEVEDO: And that's the way it's always 20 worked in the past. I just wanted to confirm that, if 21 that's what's happening, or if that's -- I spoke with Bob 22 Hanson earlier, and pretty much just to see if he was going 23 to be here or not, and he said he was not going to make it, 24 but that -- that, as far as he was concerned, that he -- or 25 really both of us, we have to go through the procedures set 118 1 up by our district office. And if there's anything 2 different from that, well, then we can't go -- 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Sure. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: In the past, I don't know 5 -- you know, I rely on T. or Jannett, whoever -- who has 6 been notifying the Post Office up to now? 7 (Mr. Sandlin raised his hand.) 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 911 has. And from -- and 9 we're changing that to be a joint letter coming out by the 10 County? Or -- I mean, and I'm asking the question. 11 MR. BALLARD: May I offer a suggestion? To 12 keep it clean, I think perhaps we should offer it to the 13 County, with recommendations, and then when the County feels 14 they have enough for the massive change, then turn it over 15 to Carol Guerrero so that she can notify the Post Office. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: In other words, we 17 would aggregate the approved changes. 18 MR. BALLARD: Yes. 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Until we feel that 20 there is enough to -- it fills the right postal blocks and 21 all that sort of thing. When we have that ready to go, we 22 would send that to San Antonio. She, in turn, would send it 23 to the appropriate Post Office. Is that what we're saying? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, that's what -- 25 I'm going to ask a question about that. 119 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Rhetorical question. 2 MR. BALLARD: Still in the dialogue, but it's 3 a hard starter. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What is the protocol 5 for notifying the Post Office? You're talking about 6 notification of the Post Office. What does that mean? Do 7 we go directly to San Antonio, or do we go through the 8 Postmaster -- local Postmaster? 9 MR. ACEVEDO: What I'm going to do as soon as 10 I get back to the office, I'm going to go ahead and speak 11 with Cindy Guerrero and let her tell me where she's at 12 with -- with this -- with this project here, and have her go 13 ahead and start working on implementing the -- the 14 changeover, because she really has to be involved. What she 15 does -- and I believe what they do -- we have our edit books 16 that have the address, the rural route number and the 17 person's name and whatever else is on your edit book, as far 18 as the prefixes and stuff like that on the -- where they're 19 going to be converted. You know, that you might need in 20 order to do the -- the crossover with your person's data 21 that you're going to have, and the new street number which 22 you're going to need to send out. But, when I receive the 23 stuff, that's on there. So, she's going to have to help 24 you -- or send you this information. We can't release the 25 edit books, but she can, and she'll send you the 120 1 information. 2 From there, you would have at least a lot 3 more data that you can use to start cross-putting everything 4 and get that on the way. When that is done, then you would 5 work with Cindy to go ahead and say, look, this is the cross 6 book, send it to -- send to it Cindy, and then Cindy sends 7 us this information and we scheme out everything with the 8 new numbers, new streets and everything, and we get our edit 9 books to reflect all the changes. That goes in, and then 10 everything's done. When a letter comes in with the new 11 address, when it's already schemed with the correct number 12 and everything, we can go ahead and get the mail delivered. 13 That's the way I've seen it work in the past. 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Mm-hmm. 15 MR. ACEVEDO: I'm not an expert, though. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: T.? 17 MR. SANDLIN: Where I left it a while ago, 18 when we had the -- the check and edits, the galley routes, 19 whatever, for the west end, as we go through there and 20 determine who's at this postal route, then we fill that in. 21 Earlier, a couple years ago, when we were starting to do 22 this, Ms. Guerrero did deliver that to -- she was going to 23 deliver the check -- what we call the check and edit sheets 24 to us, you know, your confidential format. We fill it in, 25 and then she asked us to give it to the local Postmaster so 121 1 they could look at it and then get it to her. She has now 2 said that they think it works better if I fill those out and 3 give them directly to her, and that was -- 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's essentially the 5 same thing you said. 6 MR. SANDLIN: That was a recent -- that's a 7 recent development. It's not a big change; it just changes 8 who I send it to. 9 MR. BALLARD: The question is, should we go 10 through the County or deal directly with Cindy? 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: We've already approved -- 12 we've already approved the name change. 13 MR. BALLARD: Yeah. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: The question is, at what 15 time -- I guess the question is, do we send to it Cindy? If 16 we send it to Cindy, that means that you all have to hold 17 the information and give it to us when you have a rural -- a 18 route done. Because my understanding is that Ms. Guerrero 19 wants to work on completed routes. She doesn't want to work 20 on census blocks or subdivisions; she wants to work on 21 completed -- 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: At least a route. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: At least a route, yes. 24 MR. BALLARD: A route at a time. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: So you can hold it and give 122 1 it to us and we can send it to her, or when you have a route 2 done, you can send it to her. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, that gets me 4 back to my question. If you -- who's going to know what the 5 route is if not the Postmaster? We don't know what a route 6 is. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: They get -- that comes in the 8 edit information. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That comes in the 10 edit. 11 MR. ACEVEDO: That's going to be this one out 12 of Comfort. If someone were to -- say the County were to 13 ask me for any kind of information, as far as to help y'all, 14 I would do it. But, really, I would say it should go 15 through the district, because she's -- that's why we have a 16 coordinator -- 911 coordinator out of the district office, 17 so we won't have to be doing 911 work besides what we're 18 doing. So, I would say Cindy is the person to go through. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: T.? 20 MR. SANDLIN: On the east end of the county, 21 say Comfort, and on the west end, Mountain Home and Hunt, 22 the routes are 39 and 41; they're fairly simple. As we get 23 closer here to town, to Kerrville, the routes -- we can't 24 see the route from that check and edit sheet. I mean, these 25 guys can look at it and know what it is, but it doesn't mean 123 1 anything necessarily to me. Like the Ingram Postmaster, for 2 his, where some of them criss-cross, like -- it starts out 3 of Ingram, gets almost to the high school there at Ingram, 4 and then that's a different route. That comes out of a 5 different area. Then it picks up down at Licker Road, so 6 sometimes it's not a straight flow down the roadway. On the 7 far west end and east end, it's different, and I just want 8 to clarify that. 9 The other thing we run into is the postal 10 route sometimes, especially if they're working -- and we 11 think we got it solved. Out by Mo Ranch, one of those 12 subdivisions, there's, like, 14 -- I think there's 14 13 mailboxes out front, but there's 60-something properties in 14 there, and a lot of those people get their mail either in 15 Kerrville or at the Hunt Post Office. And just following 16 along the routes in question, just working that route, and 17 I'm saying strictly follow the routing process, we skip -- 18 you see where we can have the possibility of skipping those 19 folks. I mean, we're not intentionally skipping them, but 20 we try to take -- and I talked this over with Cindy. Let's 21 say we go into Guadalupe Ranch Estates subdivision. That 22 may only be 8 or 10 rural address, but we've got that block 23 done, and then we will feed that to her. What Cindy says 24 was they don't want to start the actual delivery or the 25 conversion until each one of those routes, as they have 124 1 defined them, approaches 90 percent completion. But she 2 said if we need to, we can send it in a chunk, as long as we 3 send in -- fill in that form and send it to -- send it to 4 her. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Good. If we send in 6 the forms, I wonder if she could hold them, because she 7 knows what a block is, you know. And I'm wondering if we 8 could just ask her to hold them until she's ready to spring 9 on them. 10 MR. SANDLIN: That's what I'm saying. She 11 can look at it. When she sees whatever the demarcation 12 point is -- 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Then she -- 14 MR. SANDLIN: -- she can notify us back and 15 say, "We're fixing to send the letters out," and then I 16 would -- T. Sandlin's suggestion -- I would say that would 17 be the time. Because, intermixed with all that, we're 18 having to do a separate database for the phone company, 19 which may or may not, depending on the number of phones, 20 number of occupants, necessarily match that. So, we would 21 hold the phone database, what I would suggest, have that 22 prepared for the Post Office, and when the Post Office says, 23 "Okay, we're ready to implement Route 77," and we know by 24 that time where that is, then at that point I would suggest 25 that the letters go out and any road sign changes go up. 125 1 Then we would dump the data to the telephone company, so it 2 all happens at the same time. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Does Cindy -- or will she 4 -- does she notify you, T., or does she notify the 5 Postmasters? I mean, who -- I mean, it seems that -- I 6 mean, I think it's a good idea to send it to her and almost 7 let her hold them until she gets enough to do. I mean, I 8 don't -- I don't know that it's reasonable to wait until you 9 get a finished postal route, because I don't know that you'd 10 ever get finished. As soon as you finish, a new subdivision 11 may come in. But, whenever she gets a bunch of her -- to 12 me, it's reasonable for her to update what's done, anyway. 13 MR. SANDLIN: As I understand, she will have 14 that ready, and then she will notify the Postmaster of that 15 proper area. And then -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: At that notification, the 17 County needs to be notified. We need to know when Cindy has 18 done what she needs to do so then we can trigger all the 19 other notifications. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: The road signs, everything 21 else. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Road signs. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: One of the trigger points -- 24 the trigger point should be where the Post Office signs off 25 on the new 911 address. 126 1 MR. BALLARD: Since they're unique to 2 anything we usually work with, they should be the trigger. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: And the question becomes, how 4 do we find out about when she signs off? Do we find out 5 about it when she sends you the list? 6 MR. ACEVEDO: When she sends out the 7 letter -- see, we receive just a bulk number of letters to 8 notify our customers that the 911 number has changed from 9 this -- or from the old address to the new address, and we 10 deliver those to the customer. They have one year to change 11 their -- their address, and your mail will be delivered with 12 both addresses during that one year. That's it. So, when 13 they send us that letter, they -- the cover letter has 14 the -- the notification that is going to go to 15 implementation at this date, and the "cc's" on the bottom 16 usually have all the -- the County and any one else that's 17 involved that -- on the 911 changeover. So, I would say 18 that she would notify you when that happens automatically. 19 She should, I would think. I'm pretty sure I've seen it. 20 MR. BALLARD: If she does it now, she will, 21 because she's a very cooperative person. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, but up -- up to 23 now, maybe she's notifying the County, but I don't know 24 where it's going in the county, because we're not getting 25 it. Of course, I haven't had any changes in my precinct 127 1 yet. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I don't think she has 3 been doing that; I don't think that was the procedure, was 4 for her to notify the County. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think she was 7 notifying the Postmasters when she got the right kind of 8 information, when she had -- had her edit and data -- check 9 and data -- check and edit sheets. When she had those 10 right, she was notifying the Post Offices that were 11 concerned, but she wasn't notifying us, necessarily, because 12 we never had asked to be notified. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which brings into 14 question the 45 days. It says 45 days after approval -- I 15 assume that's our own approval -- Road and Bridge installs 16 signs. How do we know 45 days is enough time for her to do 17 her job? 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We're talking about 19 doing away with that. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That doesn't work any 21 more. 22 MR. BALLARD: That was a good idea at the 23 time. 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We thought that 25 everybody would be protected within 45 days and signed off 128 1 until then, but that -- that part of the procedure, we would 2 say, no longer applies. We would wait until she notifies us 3 and the Postmasters, and that would trigger the letters that 4 would go out to the property owner, or to the resident. 5 MR. SANDLIN: Now, in that process, would it 6 be that we take our package, this area we completed, we -- 7 we get it to y'all, and we hold onto the phone -- the part 8 that affects the phone company. We would get it to y'all 9 and to the Court, whomever is designated, and also, as we 10 get those parts put in, we send it to Cindy, and then Cindy 11 could say, "Okay, we're ready to convert Route 66. We're 12 going to send the letters out." Notify y'all. We could 13 have the package to y'all with that information in it, to 14 where y'all could send a joint letter out over, say, the 15 Judge's and the Postmaster's -- appropriate Postmaster's 16 signature. Is that -- 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: That would be a good way to 18 do it, because that -- I mean, that's the way it's done in 19 Gillespie County, as evidenced by the letter that 20 Commissioner Baldwin brought in last time we talked about 21 this. If we work out a system where a joint letter goes 22 out, I think that would -- I mean, that gets us all in the 23 loop. 24 MR. BALLARD: With all due respect, Judge, 25 if -- if Cindy is going to notify all the customers -- 129 1 postal customers that the address is changed, and then we're 2 going to follow up with a common letter, couldn't we find a 3 way to just -- 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, see, I don't know -- 5 MR. BALLARD: -- have one notification? 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: I'm talking about one letter. 7 One common letter is what I'm talking about, which is what I 8 think is done over in Gillespie County. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, what I mean -- but 10 you can sign the letter that Cindy sends out. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Sure. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We just create a form 13 letter. Is that -- I mean, is that possible that we work on 14 getting a letter like Gillespie -- 15 MR. ACEVEDO: I would really like to talk to 16 Cindy. I spoke with her one time, I think, when you had 17 that meeting where they were putting the bridge in in 18 Comfort out there. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 20 MR. ACEVEDO: And I went and called her to 21 let her know that -- that the conversion was going to be 22 coming at some time in the near future. And you had someone 23 that was working on that very hard to get it done. And I 24 would like her to get a little bit more involved with the -- 25 with Kerr County and in getting the -- everything worked out 130 1 and stuff. I assume that she never did -- or she never -- 2 has she ever directly been involved with this changeover? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: She talked with 4 Commissioner Baldwin. That's the only-- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've had a phone 6 conversation with her. 7 MR. ACEVEDO: A phone conversation. 8 MR. BALLARD: T. Sandlin has talked to 9 Cindy -- talks to Cindy on a regular basis. That's where we 10 get our -- the check and edit sheets from. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think we've got the 12 gleanings of a solution here, but I'd like to suggest that a 13 member of the Court actually have a physical sit-down with 14 Ms. Guerrero, and make it very clear -- get very clear as to 15 when, you know, exactly what's going to happen. I think 16 everybody's willing to cooperate and everybody's got the 17 best interests of those citizens and the consumer in mind, 18 and -- but we've got a little -- you talk to her and then 19 you talk to me and I talk to her and she talks to you, and 20 she talks to him and he talks to her. And I think, from my 21 point of view -- from the Court's point of view, it would be 22 the best solution if we could have one individual go make a 23 pilgrimage to San Antonio and sit down and say -- 24 MR. BALLARD: Write it down. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Write it down. Get it all 131 1 written down and then bring it back, and we could all 2 understand it, and then all the citizens will understand it. 3 I mean, I think -- I think everybody is -- everybody has a 4 good idea of how the system will work, but I'd sure like to 5 have it put together where everybody has an opportunity at 6 one time to look at a piece of paper and say, "Yeah, that's 7 how it works." 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I agree with 9 you; that needs to be done, but I've been thinking a little 10 bit backwards of that. Maybe invite her up here, which she 11 said she would be happy to do, and sit down with all of us. 12 Paula, 911, and -- 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: If she's willing to come up 14 here, I mean, that's a marvelous solution. You know, we 15 could have -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Be easier for her to 17 come up here, and let's sit down with everybody. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, I'd suggest -- I'd 19 rather not have everybody. I'd suggest we have one or two 20 members of the Court, Paula -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what I mean. 22 Someone from each entity. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- T., a member of the 911 24 Board, any of the local Postmasters who feel they need to be 25 involved. And -- 132 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Invite them all, yeah. 2 MR. ACEVEDO: Cindy's very cooperative. She 3 would be more than happy to come down here and work with us 4 here, and she's a focal point anyway on this whole thing. 5 She would have all the answers and get it all done, and get 6 it all done at one time. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think that's a very good 8 idea. 9 MR. SANDLIN: She's had experience with other 10 counties, how they've had to work their stuff out, too. 11 Would you like me to contact her and see if I can arrive at 12 a common date? Sometime in -- I don't want this to go on 13 forever. Sometime in January? 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think sometime in December. 15 MR. SANDLIN: Okay, I'll try. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tomorrow? 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Who on the Court wants to be 18 involved? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Commissioner Baldwin 20 does. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Commissioner Baldwin? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mr. Baldwin does. 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I'll be glad to. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Commissioner Griffin. 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: You know, the point 133 1 is, is that we can -- with Cindy here, then we can sort of 2 work it backwards. You know, here's what the Post Office 3 does to trigger things, and in a postal sense, and then we 4 can sort of work it back, just as we've talked through 5 generally here, and see where the process really starts, and 6 then who's the best person to do that. So, I think we could 7 work that out. 8 MR. SANDLIN: I have another question related 9 to this. We're not stopping our address -- I mean, we're 10 not stopping gathering the information and putting the 11 numbers on the squares and all that, but I have stopped 12 sending out any of our red, white, and blue notices. 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. 14 MR. SANDLIN: We typically don't do that 15 between -- right during holiday season anyway, 'cause that's 16 too traumatic. But, instructions from the Court would be to 17 hold off on -- not sending more out till we get the 18 coordination issue? I mean, we're not going to stop doing 19 our work; we're just not going to mail out any more notices 20 any more. Is that acceptable? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We have a question 22 from the side of the bench over here. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Far right has a question. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's exactly right. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not too long ago, 134 1 Commissioner Baldwin and I met with a member of your staff 2 regarding the format of the information that is provided to 3 the Postal Service for change -- old, new, and made some 4 suggestions as to how that format might be changed to cause 5 a better understanding of the data. Has that been done? 6 MR. SANDLIN: The word I got from -- that 7 was -- that particular form was done just for Kerrville Post 8 Office. I even brought some in here. Post Office wants us 9 to work strictly off the check and edit sheets, as they 10 provide them. 11 MR. BALLARD: We've been doing that. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: But the issue that was here 13 was that the information we were providing the Post Office 14 was not in a format that they needed in order to -- to 15 recognize the changes. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's why the 17 Commissioner and I went out there. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: The question was, are we 19 giving it to them in the format they want now? 20 MR. SANDLIN: We have been giving it to them 21 in both formats. We were giving it in the check and edit, 22 and he also asked for a letter per address showing like they 23 did it; we went the extra yard and did that for them. They 24 said no, just stick with the check and edit sheets. We said 25 okay, we'll do that. 135 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 2 MR. ACEVEDO: By going through the district 3 and working with the -- with Cindy, that would just totally 4 take the local thing out of the -- I don't even -- you know, 5 as far as working with the local Postmaster, really, it 6 should be working with the district office where everything 7 is -- they tell us what we need to do. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. She's the 9 decision maker. She sits down at the computer and makes the 10 changes. I mean, I never have understood why we're going 11 through an intermediary. And she requested -- you know, 12 send this stuff straight to me, and that's the way you do 13 it. 14 MR. ACEVEDO: Only time you get involved 15 with -- as far as the local is when Cindy calls us. She's 16 doing the mapping, and she's -- but we have to have our 17 A.M.S. maps and stuff, address maps, and we tell her more or 18 less, you know, where it's located, as far as on the map, 19 and then they redo all the maps and stuff with the new 20 streets names and everything. They put the street names on 21 there. But, really, other than that, everything just comes 22 from the district telling us when they have -- when the 23 implementation date and everything is, and the local -- as 24 far as working with the County, I don't -- I don't see it, 25 unless they call us to help them with something, we're not 136 1 involved. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Sounds like that's the 3 way -- we're going to the right point in their chain of 4 command. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, under our current 6 procedures, we're going to stop at (f), which is "County 7 Clerk to notify list of people of name change," and (i), "45 8 days after approval Road and Bridge installs signs." We're 9 stopping both of those things, 'cause no more notifications 10 are going out to anybody. And looking at the list, those 11 are the only two -- 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think we need to change -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And our procedures -- 14 our internal procedures, we're going to stop sending out 15 specific notices. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 17 MR. BALLARD: Period. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But that's y'all's. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, I think under 1, we 20 need to change (b) and -- and second (c) as well. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, yeah. Under -- 22 yeah. Both -- yeah, (b) and (c) under 1, Private Roads, and 23 (h) and (i) under County Maintained -- (f) and (i). 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My other -- my other 137 1 question is -- I haven't been able to get this question 2 answered in four years. On private roads, when we do the 3 address changes, if you get -- if there's an address on a 4 private road once we get all the name changes, get rid of 5 the rural route names -- or rural -- instead of saying Route 6 1, Box 71, okay, say -- do we put -- do the private -- does 7 the Post Office recognize private road names? 8 MR. ACEVEDO: Well, I'm not -- you're asking 9 me, right? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well -- 11 MR. BOHNERT: We recognize them, but they're 12 not -- as a delivery matter, yes, there's occasions where 13 we'll have a side road that comes in on our delivery route. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And there's a box on 15 the -- 16 MR. BOHNERT: The box is actually put out on 17 the delivery route, but we do not deliver down private road 18 lanes. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But you recognize -- 20 MR. BOHNERT: It's recognized as an address, 21 correct. 22 MR. SANDLIN: On the mailbox, it would say 23 1133 Purple Cow Road. Even though Purple Cow is a private 24 road, that's what would show on the address, the face of the 25 address box. 138 1 MR. BOHNERT: Right. 2 MR. ACEVEDO: All in the line of travel 3 anyway, so whatever name is -- is determined to be the 4 street name, whether it's private or it's county road, it's 5 going to be delivered as soon as we scheme it and get it on 6 there. So -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Is that the answer you 9 were looking for? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, I was looking for 11 one; I just wanted an answer. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. 13 MR. BOHNERT: It's recognized. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Jonathan, do you think we 15 need a motion to dispense with those four items? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, I think that -- 17 I'll make a motion that, until further notice, we instruct 18 the County Clerk to stop notifying people of road name 19 changes, both for public and private roads, and we instruct 20 Road and Bridge to stop installing road signs on both public 21 and private roads until further notice. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Until we get the new 23 procedure -- or the more streamlined procedure down here. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll second that 25 motion. 139 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: T. wants to say 2 something. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Just a second. Motion by 4 Commissioner Letz, second by Commissioner Baldwin, that 5 until further notice, the Court instructs the County Clerk 6 to cease notifying people of private or public road name 7 changes, and that the Road and Bridge Department cease 8 installing signs of new road names. Okay. T.? 9 MR. SANDLIN: And would we also receive 10 direction from the Court to not send out any address 11 notifications until we get that point cleared up? 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes. 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: As part of that, I 14 think we should. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, but I don't know why 16 we have -- we're telling you to do that, anyway. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: As part of the guidelines. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is this in the 19 guidelines, that you notify them? 20 MR. SANDLIN: Yes. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 22 MR. SANDLIN: As you appointed us as your -- 23 MR. BALLARD: We're your agent. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Is that an amendment to the 25 motion? 140 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anthony, you had a question 3 or a comment? 4 MR. BOHNERT: I had a question. Although 5 we're just on the eastern portion of the county, and -- but 6 with the phenomenal growth in the county, we continue to 7 have new streets and stuff come online. What percentage of 8 the change has taken place? I mean, do we have 90 percent 9 done? Do we have -- 10 MR. SANDLIN: You're talking about in the 11 eastern part of the county? 12 MR. BOHNERT: Yes. 13 MR. SANDLIN: I can't give you an exact 14 percentage on that, because we're working from west to east. 15 We just redid -- 16 MR. BOHNERT: Bear Creek? 17 MR. SANDLIN: Out off of -- the subdivision 18 off that -- actually getting off 187. Is that -- Falling 19 Waters. We had to completely go through and redo that, and 20 I think y'all got the notification on that. And we're -- as 21 we're coming around, we're skipping over the northern part 22 of 78028, and in the next few weeks we'll be in that area, 23 which is County Precinct 3, coming down, like, Cypress Creek 24 and heading out towards Center Point and Comfort. 25 MR. ACEVEDO: When you did the changeover 141 1 in -- what you said -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Falling Waters. 3 MR. ACEVEDO: -- Falling Waters, did you work 4 with the people in -- in Kendall, too? Because they had 5 their own numbers, right? 6 MR. SANDLIN: What we did was, they initially 7 numbered that, and we extended the numbering off them so 8 there wasn't any breaks, and apparently there's some that 9 got jumbled out there. 10 MR. ACEVEDO: There was some overlapping on 11 the numbering between what Kendall was saying and what Kerr 12 was saying. 13 MR. SANDLIN: I think we got that all -- I 14 think we got that all lined up. 15 MR. BOHNERT: Okay. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Does anyone have any 17 questions or comments regarding the motion that's before the 18 Court? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Anything 23 else under this agenda item? Jonathan? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My only comment is, 25 everybody -- everybody needs to keep on going. We're just 142 1 not notifying. 2 MR. SANDLIN: We'll keep on doing our work. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other questions or 4 comments? 5 MR. BALLARD: Who do we send it to? Did we 6 resolve that? Our product. Who do you want us to send it 7 to? 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think they're going to work 9 that out with Cindy. 10 MR. BALLARD: Okay. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Ms. Guerrero. Anything else? 12 MR. BALLARD: Cindy at one time wanted us to 13 go through the Post Office to her. Now it seems -- 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Now she doesn't. 15 MR. BALLARD: Now it seems better to go 16 directly to her. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: When we have this sit-down 18 day after tomorrow, we'll get all this worked out. 19 MR. BALLARD: What time, Judge? 7 a.m.? 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: I'm there. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why so late? 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anything else? If not, we 23 are adjourned. Thank you all. 24 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 2:05 p.m.) 25 - - - - - - - - - - 143 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 5 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 6 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 7 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 14th day of December, 8 2001. 9 10 11 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 12 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 13 Certified Shorthand Reporter 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25