1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Regular Session 10 Monday, February 11, 2002 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 PRESENT: FREDERICK L. HENNEKE, Kerr County Judge 23 H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 24 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 ABSENT: LARRY GRIFFIN, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X February 11, 2002 2 PAGE --- Visitors' Input 3 3 --- Commissioners Comments 4 4 1.1 Pay Bills 7 1.2 Budget Amendments 7 5 1.3 Late Bills 10 1.4 Read and Approve Minutes 12 6 1.5 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 12 7 2.1 Consider waiving fees, multi-year lease with 8 Kerr County Fair Association 13 2.2 Consider waiving fees for Hill Country Arts & 9 Crafts Festival 26 2.3 Consider cancellation of Vista Ridge Estates 27 10 2.4 Consider allowing landowner to install additional cattle guard to Honey Creek Road, Precinct 4 33 11 2.5 Preliminary plat, Stablewood Springs Ranch 41 2.17 PUBLIC HEARING - application by W.E. Burgess for 12 revision of preliminary plat, Lots 18, 19, & 20 of Twin Springs Ranch, Precinct 2 75 13 2.12 EMS/First Responders quarterly report 85 2.6 Final plat, Holcomb Ranch 89 14 2.7 Set public hearing to abandon Moore Lake Road 89 2.8 Consider division of property without platting 15 off of Lehmann and Rim Rock, Precinct 1 93 2.9 Consider duplicate road names presented by 911 98 16 2.10 Consider name changes for privately maintained county roads in Precincts 3 and 1 100 17 2.11 Consider authorizing 911 to finalize duplicate names and submit to U.S. Postal Service 101 18 2.13 Consider authorizing Sheriff's Department to participate in 2002 U.S. Department of Justice 19 Bulletproof Vest Partnership Grant 101 2.14 Consider purchase of new high-band radio for 20 Animal Control Department 107 2.15 Consider providing electrical service to Flat 21 Rock Lake Park 109 2.16 Consider approving publication of official 2001 22 precinct map in local newspapers Feb. 27, 2002 130 --- Adjourned 133 23 24 25 3 1 On Monday, February 11, 2002, at 9:00 a.m., a regular 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Good morning, everyone. It's 8 9 o'clock in the morning on Monday, February 11th, year 9 2002. We'll call to order this regular meeting of the Kerr 10 County Commissioners Court. Commissioner Letz, I believe 11 you have the honors this morning. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. If everybody would 13 please stand for a moment of prayer? 14 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. At this time, any 16 citizen wishing to address the Court on an item not listed 17 on the regular agenda may come forward and do so. Is there 18 any citizen who would like to address the Court on an item 19 not listed on the regular agenda? Yes, sir? 20 MR. SMITH: My name's Eugene Smith. I've 21 been a resident of Kerrville and Kerr County for about four 22 years, and I intend to run for City Council. And I'm a 23 supporter of cooperation between the different governments. 24 I think y'all were doing a good job trying to cooperate with 25 joint plans. I'm a believer in regional planning, and I 4 1 just wanted to make that statement to you. Thank you very 2 much. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Is there anyone else who'd 6 like to address the Court on an item not listed on the 7 regular agenda? One more time, any citizen who would like 8 to address the Court on an item not listed on the regular 9 agenda may come forward and do so at this time. Seeing 10 none, we'll start with Commissioners' comments, and start 11 with Commissioner Letz. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have two comments this 13 morning. First of all, I'd just like to publicly thank all 14 of the candidates that are running for the various offices, 15 some of the members of the City Council right now, and 16 others that are challenging them and running for other 17 offices. I think everyone who's in the middle of that -- 18 those races right now, I understand it's not easy to run for 19 political office. You take a lot of shots from the public, 20 and I think you should all be congratulated for agreeing to 21 do it. It's not easy. And the other comment I have is, 22 Tivy baseball season's here. Scrimmage tomorrow. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Very good. Commissioner 24 Baldwin? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir, thank you. 5 1 I'd like to offer our congratulations from the Commissioners 2 Court to the Tivy Antler basketball team that secured the 3 District Championship this last week. They are -- they're 4 really, really fun basketball to watch. If you enjoy a good 5 brand of basketball, it's right here at Tivy. A couple more 6 games and they're again into the playoffs, if I remember 7 correctly. Judge, I want to do something a little bit 8 different this morning. I wanted to urge the Commissioners 9 Court to -- let's get a report in here on two items. One, 10 on our radio system, the tower, et cetera. I think there 11 was some -- there were some timelines set up early in the 12 program, and I think we are stepping over those lines. 13 We're getting out on the edge of getting in trouble, and I 14 just think the public needs to be made aware of that issue, 15 as well as the Youth Exhibit Center and the Lion's Camp 16 partnership program that we had talked about previously. I 17 think that needs to come back to our table, and let's have a 18 look at it. And, last but not least, I want to offer 19 congratulations to our good friend, Commissioner Griffin. I 20 have a press release here; I don't know where it came from, 21 but Commissioner Griffin has been named County Chairman for 22 the Governor -- by Governor Rick Perry. So, what a -- what 23 an honor is it for one of our members of this Court to be 24 appointed to such a neat program. So, our congratulations 25 to Larry Griffin. That's all. 6 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. Commissioner 2 Williams? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You stole any 4 thunder. I was going to announce that -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I can take it all 6 back. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- Commissioner 8 Griffin being announced as Kerr County Chair, and I wore my 9 maroon jacket in honor of the occasion. 10 (Laughter.) 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Boy, you did, didn't 12 you? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's it. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sorry, Bill. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: On behalf of Commissioner 17 Griffin, he is -- is obviously not here today. His wife is 18 having some exploratory knee surgery in Houston this 19 morning, and he has gone down to Houston, obviously, to take 20 care of that with her, and our best wishes and prayers go 21 with Larry and Sandy as they go through what is a painful 22 procedure, from what I understand. I'd also remind everyone 23 that our next meeting on February 25th is our first evening 24 meeting. It will be at 6:30 in the evening here in the 25 Commissioners Court courtroom, and we urge each of you to 7 1 attend and participate in your local government. Without 2 any further ado, let's get on to the business at hand and 3 pay some bills. Does anyone have any questions or comments 4 regarding the bills as presented by the Auditor? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move we pay the bills. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd like to second 7 that motion. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner Letz, 9 second by Commissioner Baldwin, that the Court authorize 10 payment of the bills as presented and recommended by the 11 County Auditor. Any further questions or comments? If not, 12 all in favor, raise your right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. We have a 17 couple of budget amendments. Budget Amendment Number 1 is 18 for Rabies and Animal Control. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. This amendment is 20 required in order to pay a -- an automobile premium for the 21 2002 GMC pickup, so I'm requesting a transfer of $120 from 22 Capital Outlay to the Insurance line item. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 8 1 Williams, second by Commissioner Baldwin, that the Court 2 approve Budget Amendment Request Number 1 for Rabies and 3 Animal Control. Any questions or comments? If not, all in 4 favor, raise your right hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Budget 9 Amendment Request Number 2 is for the Nondepartment -- 10 Nondepartmental. 11 MR. TOMLINSON: This -- this request is 12 related to a bill that's from our -- our attorneys 13 representing us in a -- in a civil action concerning the 14 Sheriff's Office, prior years, and it's for legal fees and 15 it's -- this transfer is for $351.70 from Contingency line 16 item to Professional Services. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Is this their final bill, or 18 will there be other bills? 19 MR. TOMLINSON: I believe it is. There was 20 one prior to this for $3,425. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is this a suit against 23 Kerr County, or is the Sheriff named? 24 MR. TOMLINSON: The Sheriff's named. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, thank you. 9 1 MR. TOMLINSON: Not the current Sheriff. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The previous Sheriff. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: Previous Sheriff. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I move the budget 5 amendment. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 8 Williams, second by Commissioner Letz, that the Court 9 approve Budget Amendment Request Number 2 for 10 Nondepartmental Professional Services. Any further 11 questions or comments? If not, all in favor, raise your 12 right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Budget 17 Amendment Request Number 3 is also for Nondepartmental. 18 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. This request is to 19 transfer $5,000 from Nondepartmental Contingency to 20 Professional Services in the Commissioners Court budget. 21 This -- this is to pay a bill to Continental Casualty. This 22 represents the deductible in a suit concerning claimant Mark 23 Seider. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: This is a jail suit? 25 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 10 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The same suit? 2 MR. TOMLINSON: No, it's a different one. 3 Different one. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner Letz, 7 second by Commissioner Williams, that the Court approve 8 Budget Amendment Request Number 3 for Nondepartmental 9 Professional Services. Any further questions or comments? 10 If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Do you have 15 any late bills? 16 MR. TOMLINSON: Two. First one is to U.S. 17 Postal Service. It's for $500, for the Tax Collector. It's 18 for her annual Business Reply Mail permit. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner Letz, 22 second by Commissioner Baldwin, that the Court approve the 23 late bill, and I presume a hand check? 24 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: In the amount of? 11 1 MR. TOMLINSON: $500. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: $500, payable to U.S. Postal 3 Service for Tax Collector's postal needs. 4 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other questions or 6 comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 7 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number two? 9 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. This one -- this one 10 is also for the U.S. Postal Service. It's for $125. It's 11 also for the Tax Collector's Presort Fee permit for presort 12 mail. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner Letz, 16 second by Commissioner Baldwin, that the Court approve a 17 late bill and hand check in the amount of $125 payable to 18 United States Postal Service for the Tax Collector's Presort 19 Fee. Any further questions or comments? If not, all in 20 favor, raise your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Is that it? 23 MR. TOMLINSON: That's it. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. At this time, I 25 would entertain a motion to waive reading and approve the 12 1 minutes of the January 14th, January 28th, and January 31st 2 meetings of the Kerr County Commissioners Court. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 6 Williams, second by Commissioner Baldwin, that the Court 7 waive reading and approve the minutes of the January 14, 8 January 28, and January 31 meetings of the Kerr County 9 Commissioners Court. Any questions or comments? If not, 10 all in favor, raise your right hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Next, I'd 13 accept a motion to approve and accept the monthly reports as 14 presented. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 18 Baldwin, second by Commissioner Letz, that the Court approve 19 and accept the monthly reports as presented. Any further 20 questions or comments? If not, all in favor, raise your 21 right hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. That takes 13 1 care of the consent agenda, and we'll next move into the 2 consideration agenda. The first item, Item Number 1, 3 consider and discuss waiver of fees and multi-year lease for 4 use of Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center by Kerr County Fair 5 Association. Sandra, are you here? 6 MS. YARBROUGH: Yes, sir. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Good morning. How are you? 8 MS. YARBROUGH: Fine. So, where do I start? 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Jump right in. We have your 10 letter in the packet, so we understand what the -- 11 MS. YARBROUGH: Okay. The Kerr County Fair 12 Association requests the waiver of fees. We feel that we 13 bring a lot of revenue back to Kerr County. All the 14 proceeds are given back to scholarships in Kerr County. Our 15 vendors, our petting zoo, our carnival operator all collect 16 and pay the sales tax as a result of holding the fair out at 17 the fairgrounds. We have done some in-kind type 18 contributions back to improving the grounds, and we're 19 always available to do some sweat equity to help keep the 20 grounds up, and we would like to be considered to waive 21 fees. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sweat equity? 23 MS. YARBROUGH: Yeah, work. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've heard of it. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I would offer 14 1 a motion that the Kerr County Commissioners Court waive the 2 fees for the Kerr County Fair Association and enter into a 3 multi-year lease for the use of the Hill Country Youth 4 Exhibit Center. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can we split those apart? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pardon? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can we split those into 8 two motions? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Waive fees? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Waiver of fees. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll second that. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 14 Williams, second by Commissioner Baldwin, that the Court 15 waive fees for the use of the Hill Country Youth Exhibit 16 Center by the Kerr County Fair. Any further -- any 17 questions or comments? If not, all in favor, raise your 18 right hand. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carried. Now we'll 23 turn to the issue of a multi-year lease. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm going to defer to 25 Commissioner Letz. He apparently has something on his mind 15 1 about a multi-year -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just -- I don't -- I'm 3 not opposed to it. I just think that we need to, you know, 4 look at the big picture before we enter into anything. And, 5 I mean, I think for this one year, let's go ahead and get 6 this year behind us. There's a possibility of -- Arts and 7 Crafts Fair has, you know, sent some feelers out towards 8 this. We're looking at a renovation project. I just think 9 we need to hold off on tying up anything out there until we 10 figure out our -- basically, what we're going to do out 11 there from an improvement standpoint, or nonimprovement 12 standpoint, 'cause I think that will be -- have an impact on 13 the fair and what they do. So, you know, I'm not opposed to 14 it. I just wanted to -- I think we need to hold off on it. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Plus we need -- 16 probably need to have a lease lying before us to approve. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why don't we amend 18 that second part of what was the first motion, and make a 19 second motion to enter into a lease for this year's Kerr 20 County Fair? I don't disagree with what the Commissioner is 21 saying. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Sandra, I think, you know, 23 Commissioner Letz makes a good point. There's no one here 24 who will ever object to the use of -- 25 MS. YARBROUGH: Right. 16 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- the facility by the Kerr 2 County Fair. That's a given. But at this point, since 3 we're in discussions about renovation, improvement, we need 4 to be cautious about tying ourselves into something. I 5 think the better part of valor is -- 6 MS. YARBROUGH: Okay. We're talking about 7 the fees right now? 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, we -- we've already 9 waived the fees for this year. Now we're going to have a 10 motion to enter into a lease agreement for the coming year. 11 MS. YARBROUGH: Okay. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: What we're reluctant to do is 13 do a multi-year lease, because we don't know exactly where 14 we're going to be after this coming year. 15 MS. YARBROUGH: Right. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: So we want to hold off on 17 that and take a look at that after our firm -- our plans 18 firm up with regard to what we're going to do out at the 19 Youth Exhibit Center. 20 MS. YARBROUGH: Okay. So the carnival 21 operator I'm dealing with, I need to tell him that it's 22 going to be a year-to-year, or what? Because they -- they 23 schedule years out, and we have finally got a reputable 24 carnival that said that they can come, you know, if we can 25 get a date -- a reoccurring date set. And it's been -- I've 17 1 been working -- going on my fifth year finally to get to 2 this point, to get someone that is a reputable carnival 3 that -- you know, that the public responds to. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Your dates 5 essentially don't change from year to year, do they? 6 MS. YARBROUGH: No, sir. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They're basically in 8 the same block of time? 9 MS. YARBROUGH: Right. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Year to year? 11 MS. YARBROUGH: We're looking at going to the 12 fourth weekend of October rather than the second. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think the concern 14 probably is -- is that if -- if renovations and/or anything 15 else takes place on a large scale, there is some concern 16 about it interfering -- 17 MS. YARBROUGH: Right. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- the construction 19 and renovations interfering with your project. It's not 20 that your project won't go on. You may have to make some 21 adjustments somehow. 22 MS. YARBROUGH: Well, I understand that, yes. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's hard to enter into a 24 lease until we know what we're doing. That's my issue with 25 it. So, I mean, I don't have -- I mean, I think, you know, 18 1 the Court probably will continue to waive the fees out 2 there, and certainly want you to use the facility. It's 3 just that it's hard to do -- well, one, I think what 4 Commissioner Baldwin says, we need a lease to look at. 5 MS. YARBROUGH: Right. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I don't have a 7 problem on, you know, starting down the path to create a 8 lease agreement that we can both agree with. 9 MS. YARBROUGH: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it's just -- I think 11 it's premature at this point to approve a lease. For one, 12 we don't have a lease, and two, we don't know exactly what 13 the makeup of that facility is going to be. 14 MS. YARBROUGH: Right. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: What do we do, though, with 16 Sandra's concern about this carnival? I mean, you know, is 17 the Court willing to express the intent of the Court that 18 the fourth weekend in October would be -- the fair would be 19 given first opportunity to -- to schedule that time? Or -- 20 'cause I understand what she's talking about. She's trying 21 to get someone to commit to come here, and the question is 22 will they commit to come for one year, or do they need to 23 have a long -- a longer commitment out of the Fair 24 Association? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Would it be 19 1 appropriate if we approved a -- a lease for this year, to be 2 accompanied by a letter from the County Judge indicating the 3 Court's willingness to enter into a longer-term lease 4 arrangement once we know the scope of renovations and so 5 forth that might take place, and it is our intention to 6 renew something along that line? Would that work? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't have a problem 8 with that. I think we still need to figure out, one, who's 9 going to draft the lease, 'cause we need to have a formal 10 agreement somewhere, whether it's going to be the fair or 11 the County Attorney or outside counsel somewhere. I mean, 12 so we need that, I mean, and based on the experience with 13 the Stock Show Association, these -- it takes a while. I 14 mean, there's lots of issues that have to be addressed in 15 the lease, so, I mean, it could take, you know, several 16 months just to get a lease agreement finally approved for 17 form and, you know, all the -- even for one year. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sandra, when do you 19 have to notify your carnival operator? 20 MS. YARBROUGH: We already -- he's tied in 21 for 2003, and he understands that we're coming here today. 22 And he -- he has the fourth weekend of October available, 23 because he's made his circuit and he's coming back this 24 direction. And we would like to go ahead and, you know, 25 firm it up with him. He understands where we're standing 20 1 right now, too. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What does he need? I 3 mean, what does he -- 4 MS. YARBROUGH: Well, when we sign the 5 agreement, we just sign for "X" number of years out, and he 6 needs to know, because he has contracts 10 years out with 7 other places too, and we can't be just changing back and 8 forth. That's where we've gotten in trouble in past years, 9 is not, you know, keeping same dates. And this year, we're 10 with a -- in a five-year period, with the third carnival 11 company because of this. Now, we've just been lucky to pick 12 them up, 'cause they didn't have any other place to go, but 13 most of them want a 5- to 10-year out somewhere. This 14 company is a very good company, and he understands where 15 we're coming from, so at this point he's holding things for 16 us. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Have you checked with the 18 scheduling out there? Is that weekend that you want to use 19 totally free? 20 MS. YARBROUGH: That's the weekend we want to 21 use out there. I've already talked to them. And -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They have nothing else 23 scheduled in future years? 24 MS. YARBROUGH: Not at this point. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not at this point. I 21 1 don't have a problem with, you know, committing to that date 2 for future use out there. And I still think we need to get 3 a lease before us and negotiate the terms. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Perhaps what we could do is 5 to reserve the fourth weekend in October for use by the Kerr 6 County Fair Association, subject to negotiations of a proper 7 lease. Does that satisfy -- 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If it satisfies 9 Sandra's needs, that's fine with me. 10 MS. YARBROUGH: The main thing is, we need to 11 be assured of the date, you know, to go to them and say, you 12 know, "Yes, we have it," and to get worked into their 13 schedule. Because more and more, carnivals are scaling 14 down, and they're just not available. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: From our standpoint, I 16 think -- I mean, we want these dates set too, so we can 17 schedule other uses out there. That's why I asked to make 18 sure that date is available for, you know, future years. 19 MS. YARBROUGH: I had talked to Janie about 20 it through 2007, kind of till today's satisfied. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why couldn't it be 22 something like a 5-year lease with first year firm, and the 23 other options to renew the same dates, a lease like that? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- I mean, I 25 don't have any problem with us entering into an intent, but 22 1 we still need a lease. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, I mean, we can commit 4 to the date, but we still need to have a lease, come back 5 and -- 6 MS. YARBROUGH: And who -- where do we start 7 with that? Do we do that? Is that something we do out at 8 the office? Where do we go from here? 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: I'd like to see the County 10 Attorney's office do it, but -- 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, can I offer a 12 suggestion? Since you know what some of the unusual 13 conditions are or circumstances are putting on a fair, more 14 so than we know what they are, would it be inappropriate for 15 you to provide a draft for to us take a look at and the 16 County Attorney take a look at, which should have all those 17 various items in it that are unique to the fair, as opposed 18 to the stock show or some other event? Would that -- 19 MS. YARBROUGH: We can get the information 20 together. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- get us started? 22 MS. YARBROUGH: We can supply him the 23 information and let him put it together. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That would probably be 25 helpful. 23 1 MS. YARBROUGH: So it's in the correct 2 format. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, what's the motion? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let me try again. I 6 move that Kerr County enter into a 5-year lease with the 7 Kerr County Fair Association, first year firm, and an option 8 for renewal of the dates in the remaining four years, and 9 that the Kerr County Fair Association provide us with the 10 details have to be contained -- unique details that must be 11 contained in the lease agreement for review by the County 12 Attorney. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: And I'm sure your suggestion 14 is that the lease be for the fourth weekend in October? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. Didn't I say 16 that? 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: No, you didn't say that. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second -- that's fine. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 21 Williams, second by Commissioner Letz, that the Court 22 authorize a 5-year lease with the Hill Country -- with the 23 Kerr County Fair Association for the fourth weekend in 24 October, with the first year of such 5-year lease being 25 firm, and the remaining years subject to confirmation by the 24 1 Court, with the Fair Association to provide the specifics of 2 the lease to the County Attorney's office for preparation of 3 the document before approved by the Court. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Exactly what I said, 5 Judge. 6 (Laughter.) 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other questions or 8 comments? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I would prefer us 10 running this by the County Attorney and do it properly and 11 have a document drawn up to bring in here next meeting, and 12 to vote on -- this is -- to me, is kind of off out there 13 somewhere. But, if -- Judge Henneke, if you feel like that 14 this is a legal way to go, I'll go along with it. I just 15 think it could be a lot cleaner. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, the motion would always 17 be cleaner if we had the actual document, but the motion 18 authorizes us to enter into a lease; it doesn't commit us to 19 enter into a lease until we see the actual document. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We could wait till 21 next meeting, though. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, we could -- if we had 23 any expectation of having a document for next meeting, we 24 might do that. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Well, you have 25 1 a good point there. I'll back off on that one. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think Sandra needs to have 3 the date locked in so she can go ahead with her 4 negotiations. So -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But you have a 6 carnival telling us how to conduct business here all of a 7 sudden. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Could we lock into a date 9 to commit to a lease? 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any further questions or 11 comments? All in favor, raise your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. 16 MS. YARBROUGH: Thank you. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you, Sandra. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is on the -- just 19 another comment on the overall topic. I don't want to -- 20 I'm not trying to be difficult on this, but on waiving fees, 21 I think we also need to ask the County Attorney to make sure 22 that there's no problem from a legal standpoint of us 23 waiving fees for an association. I think it can come 24 under -- I think we have the authority to develop other 25 areas, but I think we need that from the County Attorney, so 26 1 we would request that opinion. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. Next item is Item 3 Number 2, consider and discuss a waiver of fees for the use 4 of the Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center by the Texas Arts 5 and Crafts Festival. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is one I put on the 7 agenda at the request of Mr. Miller, the present chairman, 8 and I told him he did not need to come, in my opinion, 9 'cause I could represent what he's requesting. And what it 10 is, it's the waiver of the fees for the tables and chairs. 11 The facility -- the fair is still going to be at Schreiner 12 University; it's not changing that at all. We're not 13 waiving any fees for that location. It's just that in the 14 past, they've always rented the tables and chairs from us at 15 no cost, and it was -- he asked that we put it on the agenda 16 to waive the fees again. Under our current guidelines, they 17 would get a 75 percent reduction as a nonprofit in the 18 county, so I just put it on the agenda for that discussion, 19 that we waive the full fees. And, you know, I think that if 20 we did waive the fees -- I'm in favor of waiving the fees. 21 I think they, like the fair, do a great deal for the 22 economic development and benefit to the county. But I do 23 think, though, that if any tables and chairs are damaged or 24 lost, that they're responsible for those costs, and we have 25 an agreement with them to that effect. But I think I'll 27 1 make a motion that we waive the fees; however, they will be 2 responsible for any damage and loss of tables and chairs. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner Letz, 5 second by Commissioner Baldwin, that the Court waive the 6 fees for use of the Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center tables 7 and chairs by the Texas Arts and Crafts Festival, with the 8 understanding that the Arts and Crafts Festival will be 9 responsible for any loss or damage to such tables and 10 chairs. Any other questions or comments? If not, all in 11 favor, raise your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Item Number 14 3, consider the cancellation of Vista Ridge Estates, 15 Precinct 2, in accordance with Section 6.05 or 6.06 of the 16 Kerr County Subdivision Rules. Commissioner Williams. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mr. Johnston? 18 MR. JOHNSTON: Mr. Crawford over in Pass 19 Creek Ranch owns this entire subdivision, and he wishes to 20 abandon it as a subdivision. There's no -- no houses or 21 anything built in the subdivision. There is a road built 22 into it. I'm not sure if it would come under undeveloped or 23 developed, but in either case, it would require a 24 notification in the newspaper. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which leads me to ask 28 1 a question, Franklin. I notice that the -- that the 2 documents that we have in the backup calls for notice of 3 public hearing, cancellation of Vista Ridge, et cetera et 4 cetera, and it advises the public that if they wish to 5 protest, they may appear here March 11, 2002. This being 6 February 11, anybody out there who wants to do that may not 7 know about it. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Say that again? 9 MR. JOHNSTON: They don't know about it? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are we talking about 11 two different months here? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. Yeah, the 13 date -- if this is on for today, the public hearing notice 14 says March 11th, if I'm reading correctly. 15 MR. JOHNSTON: Yeah. We're setting the 16 public hearing date of March 11th. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. So -- all 18 right, so we're not going to do it -- we're only setting the 19 hearing date? 20 MR. JOHNSTON: Right, we're approving -- 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good enough. 22 MR. JOHNSTON: -- the newspaper article. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. I move that we 24 set a public hearing -- 25 MR. JOHNSTON: And it will appear three times 29 1 in the paper. Question: Being as the owner is willing to 2 pay for this ad, can we authorize him to pay that, or is -- 3 does that have to come out of County funds? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think he can donate the 5 money to the general -- I mean, into our General Fund. I 6 don't know that he can earmark -- in my unlegal opinion on 7 that. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: We'd have to ask the County 9 Clerk's office, but if -- if he's willing to put up the 10 money for it, I don't think we'll -- 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Wouldn't object. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yeah, we wouldn't object. I 13 don't think we can require him to, under previous precedent, 14 but I think if he wants to, we'll certainly accept his 15 generous donation. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure. I can't imagine 17 us going out hiring a lawyer fighting him over that. 18 MR. JOHNSTON: Kind of a follow-up question 19 to that. Normally, when notices were published in the past 20 by Road and Bridge as a public sale, we've taken it out of 21 our budget, but I notice -- I think the Clerk takes them out 22 of the Commissioners Court budget. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We like our budget. 24 MR. JOHNSTON: Are we doing something wrong? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, you're doing it 30 1 exactly right. However, I do have a question here, because 2 this is -- well, what I guess is what got me confused, we're 3 talking about a public hearing and notice of public hearing 4 to set the public hearing for March 11, but the agenda item 5 says "consider cancellation." It doesn't say "consider 6 setting a public hearing." Are we all right, Judge? 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think we're all right, 8 because cancellation would require a public hearing. So -- 9 MR. JOHNSTON: Public hearing is for the 10 purpose of cancelling the subdivision plat. May not be 11 worded correctly. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 6.05 and 6.06 is what's 13 stated, that those provisions require a hearing, so I think 14 we're covered. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I move that we set a 16 public hearing for the cancellation of Vista Ridge Estates 17 according to the Subdivision Rules of Kerr County, and set 18 the date for March 11 at 10 a.m. in the Kerr County 19 Courthouse. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll second that 21 motion, with a question. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 23 Williams, second by Commissioner Baldwin, that the Court set 24 a public hearing concerning cancellation of Vista Ridge 25 Estates in Kerr County, Texas, for March 11, Year 2002, at 31 1 10 o'clock a.m. in the Commissioners Courtroom of the Kerr 2 County Courthouse. Commissioner Baldwin? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes. I guess my 4 question is directed to Commissioner Letz, and his -- 5 because of his knowledge of the Subdivision Regulations. He 6 wrote them. We're having a public hearing to allow the 7 public to come in and comment on a cancellation of a 8 subdivision where there are no other property owners? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Pretty stupid, huh? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, it is. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good question. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 6.06 there is out of 13 state law, "Cancellation of Subdivision if Land Remains 14 Undeveloped." The Commissioners Court may cancel, after 15 notice and a hearing, a subdivision for which the plat was 16 filed before September 1989. There's that provision there 17 also, which does not apply. This is a 1999 subdivision, I 18 believe. 6.05 is cancellation of subdivision. I mean, it's 19 under state law. We have no leeway under both provisions. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Who could possibly 21 come in here and argue the point? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I want -- 23 that's a good question. It really is. I'm wondering 24 whether or not, based on -- whether it can be waived, based 25 on the -- the letter which is in the backup material from 32 1 Mr. Crawford that he is the sole owner of all the property, 2 all the lots within the Vista Ridge Subdivision, as platted. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: State law requires notice and 4 public hearing. 5 MR. JOHNSTON: You probably can conjure up a 6 scenario where one subdivision -- to cancel one subdivision 7 will affect another, but I don't think that would apply in 8 this case, since it's a dead-end road that goes into it. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So -- and then one 10 other question. It says the road through the subdivision 11 has been abandoned, vacated -- we've already done that 12 particular road? 13 MR. JOHNSTON: Yeah. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, I'm through. I 15 seconded your motion, I think. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's real clear. I mean, 17 it's -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. The law is the 19 law. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any further questions or 22 comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 33 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: The public hearing is set. 2 The next item is Item Number 4, consider permitting a 3 landowner to install an additional cattle guard in Honey 4 Creek Road, Precinct 4. Franklin? 5 MR. JOHNSTON: All we have on this is that 6 little note that you -- you probably have in your backup, 7 that little sketch. I think we probably want to hear more 8 information on this from the people involved. They're here. 9 Would that be all right? 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Sure. Morning, Bill. How 11 are you doing? 12 MR. HENDERSON: How are you doing? 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Tell us what's going 14 on. 15 MR. HENDERSON: We want to put that cattle 16 guard in, move it back -- I don't have a drawing with me. I 17 gave mine to the Road and Bridge deal. 18 MS. HARDIN: They have a copy. 19 MR. JOHNSTON: They have a copy of it. 20 That's the one you sent. 21 MR. HENDERSON: There where the cattle guard 22 goes in there, Mr. Odom came out, I guess it was Thursday or 23 Friday, and looked at it. We're having trouble with our 24 stock and stuff getting over this cattle guard that's down 25 past there. 34 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any questions? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. This is a 3 brand-new cattle guard? This is not an existing cattle 4 guard; there's another cattle guard up here? 5 MR. HENDERSON: That way. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, down here. 7 MR. HENDERSON: Down at the end where that 8 other -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right here? Okay. 10 And Commissioner Griffin called me from Houston this morning 11 and said there was some -- he said something about an 12 oversized cattle guard that you all had requested. 13 MR. HENDERSON: Mm-hmm. It's 16-by-8 to keep 14 the stock from jumping. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 16-by-8. And how long 16 -- how big is a regular cattle guard? 17 MR. HENDERSON: The one that's down here is 18 maybe 5-by-12. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do we know -- a 20 16-by-8, what the load-bearing is on it? 21 MR. JOHNSTON: No. I -- I think -- you know, 22 I guess one question comes up, if the one down there doesn't 23 work, you know, why not repair that one or enlarge it at 24 that location rather than moving it up the road? I don't 25 know how that would help, but as far as keeping -- 35 1 MR. HENDERSON: Well, I think if we move it 2 up here, see, and get this up here, then our stock won't 3 come out. See, they come around this way, and they come 4 down in here and they jump. Having trouble with the cattle 5 jumping this way over it. We need it up here where it's 6 wider; they have more room. See, the hill is right here, 7 and they're kind of bottled in when they come up here. 8 MR. JOHNSTON: I wasn't out there to see the 9 tract. Yeah, I think -- I think, you know, as far as our 10 offices are concerned, we'd like to see the actual plans and 11 specs on what -- the cattle guard you're proposing -- 12 they're proposing to install, so we'd have a chance to 13 evaluate it. At this point, we really don't know enough, 14 how it's constructed or what. 15 MR. HENDERSON: We're going to get the cattle 16 guard over at Uvalco in Uvalde. I don't know if any of 17 you -- this is oil field cattle guards. They use them for 18 them tanker trucks and stuff to go over; they're sound. 19 MR. JOHNSTON: But if they have some drawings 20 or something that we can look at and evaluate and see 21 exactly how they're made, there's a lot of different ways 22 that they do it. We'd just like to check it. We like to 23 discourage cattle guards -- new cattle guards on county 24 roads. I think that's the Court's -- 25 MR. HENDERSON: Can we put a gate in? 36 1 MR. JOHNSTON: -- direction in the past, 2 but -- 3 MR. HENDERSON: A gate serves my purpose 4 better. 5 MR. JOHNSTON: Not on a public road, unless 6 you want to abandon the road. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask a question. 8 Summers Dream, can somebody enlighten me on what that might 9 be? Is that the camp -- is that the new camp, Summers 10 Dream? 11 (Mr. Henderson nodded.) 12 MS. HARDIN: Actually, it's Summer Dreams. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, Summer Dreams. 14 MR. JOHNSTON: Got the "S" in the wrong 15 place. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is this your drawing, 17 Henderson? 18 MR. HENDERSON: Not mine. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, looks to me like 20 they're wanting to put a cattle guard probably before the 21 main gate into Summer Dreams. 22 MR. HENDERSON: Right. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, therefore -- so, 24 therefore, it -- I think that would probably have some large 25 trucks, delivery trucks going in and out of that camp, so I 37 1 think the -- the load-bearing part of the cattle guard is 2 really, really, really important. 3 MR. HENDERSON: It's just past their 4 entrance. You're going the wrong way, Buster. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Here's the cattle 6 guard and here's a gate. 7 MR. HENDERSON: Their main entrance is over 8 there. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Their main entrance is 10 over there? 11 MR. HENDERSON: In that corner. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: In here somewhere? 13 MR. HENDERSON: Mm-hmm. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 15 MR. HENDERSON: I guess that's where it's 16 going to stay; is that right? Is that entrance going to 17 stay? 18 AUDIENCE: It's going to stay there, 19 depending on -- according to the drawing we had, there was a 20 high fence going in right through where our main entrance is 21 now. If that happens, we'll have to move our entrance 22 toward where that cattle guard he's talking about is. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean -- I'm getting 24 confused, but, I mean, I don't have a problem -- one, I 25 think the old cattle guard ought to come out, and two, the 38 1 new cattle guard needs to meet Road and Bridge's 2 specifications. If that's done, I have no problem with it. 3 MR. JOHNSTON: Their road -- I'm not sure how 4 wide that road is now, but 16 foot, that's kind of a minimum 5 subdivision width of a road. It's a paved road, I 6 understand, but I don't know how wide it is. But normally 7 cattle guards are, like, 2 foot wider than the pavement, I 8 think, on each side to give -- so they probably should be, 9 like, 20 foot wide instead of 16 foot wide. 10 MR. HENDERSON: Well, Mr. Odom told me I 11 didn't have to put in but a 14-foot. That was the specs on 12 that. I told him I wanted 16-foot, so if they did need to 13 get in there with -- to move a trailer house and stuff out 14 and move some in -- we had to pull all the posts up of the 15 cattle guards that are there to let them get through, and 16 this one's 2 foot wider than the widest one on the road. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a question, 18 really kind of, Jonathan, for you, in terms of if we -- if 19 the motion ends up being to remove the old cattle guard, 20 which I think is probably appropriate to do, at whose 21 expense the road repaired? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I mean, I would 23 think -- 24 MR. HENDERSON: We're offering to pay for all 25 of this, on this cattle guard. Y'all aren't going to have 39 1 to pay for it. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, that's the new 3 one. I understand that, but the -- Commissioner Letz 4 suggested that the old one be taken out, which, if I 5 understand cattle guards, leaves kind of a -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Hole. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- hole in the road. 8 Who fixes the hole in the road? 9 MR. HENDERSON: Well, I guess -- 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the -- 11 MR. HENDERSON: -- if y'all want to take it 12 out, y'all can. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's our road, isn't 14 it? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Our policy, I think, on 16 cattle guards -- correct me if I'm wrong, Franklin -- I 17 think we require the person who wants it to pay for the 18 cattle guard, and we install it. Is that correct? They pay 19 for installation too? Then I think that we would want y'all 20 to pay for the -- for the repairing it, as well. I mean, I 21 think it just -- that's the logical way. If you want to 22 move to a different location, then you'd pay for the repair 23 to the road right there. 24 MR. JOHNSTON: All the expenses. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I don't think -- 40 1 we're not talking about, I don't think, much to repair it. 2 MR. JOHNSTON: That's not a paved deal, that 3 part, is it? It turns into gravel down there? 4 MR. HENDERSON: No, it's paved. 5 MR. JOHNSTON: Paved all the way? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I just think 7 that we need to bring -- come back with a little more 8 information. The load-bearing part of it's what really 9 bothers me more than anything, because if you have trucks 10 going in there and if something bad would happen, we're -- 11 there's some liability on us too, so we want to do it right 12 the first time. So, you know, run him out of here and tell 13 him to come back with better information. But I remember -- 14 MR. JOHNSTON: They should be familiar with, 15 you know, what highway loading is on it, so they can come 16 back and give us some information. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- years ago there was 18 two gentlemen on this Court that thought that cattle guards 19 were human, and they couldn't figure -- they were so opposed 20 to hiring people to stand around and guard cattle. 21 (Laughter.) 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We've come a long way, 23 fellows. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Will you make it 25 clear that I was not one of those? 41 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, years ago. Years 2 ago. 3 MR. HENDERSON: So, you just need the specs 4 on the cattle guard, right? 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think what we need you to 6 do, Bill, is to get the -- get the specs to Franklin or 7 Leonard and let them look at it, and then bring it back to 8 us at the first opportunity. 9 MR. HENDERSON: Just take it to the Road and 10 Bridge -- 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Take the specs to Road and 12 Bridge and let them look at it. Then they'll put it back on 13 the agenda and then we'll take care of it, okay? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And make it clear who's 15 paying for road work -- clear who's paying for it. 16 MR. HENDERSON: Well, they put on here that 17 it would be our expense on that deal that -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. 19 MR. HENDERSON: Okay. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay? 21 MR. HENDERSON: Okay. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thanks. Appreciate it. Next 23 item is Item Number 5, consider the preliminary plat of 24 Stablewood Springs Ranch in Precinct 4. Franklin, do you 25 want to introduce this for us? 42 1 MR. JOHNSTON: This is a subdivision in -- 2 off of -- it enters off of Cardinal Road between Ingram and 3 Hunt. It's a little different than some subdivisions we 4 see, because the -- the land has a lot of common area. It's 5 not actually part of any lot. And the lots are small; we've 6 got 1 to 2 acres. But the -- if you take the total acreage 7 and divide it by the number of lots they have, it averages 8 six, so -- 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: And it's served by a -- it's 10 served by a community or public water system? 11 MR. JOHNSTON: Yeah, they're putting in 12 community water to serve all the lots. I think there was an 13 existing well on the site in that area in the middle. 14 There's another well in the first one you come in the 15 entrance, which has a small sanitary easement. I'm not sure 16 why it's less than the other one. Should be 150 foot, I 17 believe, instead of 75. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, did you ask the 19 same question about septic tanks? I just -- 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: No. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I wasn't listening. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: I have not asked about septic 23 tanks. I would presume there are going to be septic tanks. 24 MR. JOHNSTON: There'll be septic tanks. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And how -- what size 43 1 are the lots? 2 MR. JOHNSTON: If -- well, if you're looking 3 at the blue line, you don't see any lots. You have to look 4 at the other drawing; it shows the lots drawn in. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 1.5 acres? 6 MR. JOHNSTON: They're all between 1 and 7 2 acres. All the area that's not a lot is common area. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What -- how does this 9 tie into the water availability? 10 MR. JOHNSTON: Well, like we said, total land 11 out there divided by the lots is 6 acres, so it averages 12 over 5 acres. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 14 MR. JOHNSTON: I think they need to specify 15 no additional lots be inserted later on. Keep it, you know, 16 at that level. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You said it's going to 18 have community water? 19 MR. JOHNSTON: They're planning on putting in 20 a community water system. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How many connections? 22 Over 15, the way it looks. 23 MR. JOHNSTON: Yes. It will have to be 24 approved -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Be approved by T.N.R.C.C. 44 1 from the water standpoint. 2 MR. JOHNSTON: There is a concern about 3 drainage. We had a -- we have a study that may be in your 4 packet about sizing culverts, but we don't have an actual 5 study on -- there's a valley that comes down the entire side 6 of the subdivision, and there's a lake -- existing lake in 7 the -- right at the entrance where you drive in, drive over 8 the lake -- the dam part of the lake. But, during flood 9 events, you know, we need to have a study done on that, 10 which has not done been done to date, I think, to the extent 11 that we need in that area. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is this -- I mean, this 13 says preliminary plat. And -- 14 MR. JOHNSTON: Preliminary, yes. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It sounds like it should 16 be more of a concept plan that we're looking at right now. 17 I mean, it sounds like there are a number of things that 18 need to be done still, and it's difficult to do a 19 preliminary approval when you don't have the hydrology, you 20 don't have a lot of the other information. I mean, from a 21 concept plan, it looks good to me, but I'm not sure we're at 22 the point for a preliminary plat approval. Just my opinion. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: We have -- 24 MR. JOHNSTON: Charles might want to address 25 the Court and make a presentation on behalf of the owner. 45 1 MR. DOMINGUES: Charles Domingues. The 2 hydrology study will be done, but according to the 3 Subdivision Regulations, at the preliminary plat, the 4 hydrology study is not required at preliminary plat. That's 5 part of the construction of the streets, and in connection 6 with that and the drainage, the way that I read the 7 Subdivision Regulations, and it's not required at the 8 preliminary plat stage. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I wouldn't argue that 10 point. It's just -- you know, it seems like it's going 11 to -- I mean, if there's -- it seems early in the process to 12 me. If you need it for some reason, I mean, it looks like a 13 good plan to me. 14 MR. DOMINGUES: You know, if you read the 15 preliminary plat regulations, according to regulations, 16 everything is on the -- this platting. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 18 MR. JOHNSTON: As long as they're -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And everything will be 20 done within a year? 21 MR. DOMINGUES: Yes, sir. 22 MR. JOHNSTON: They're aware of the rule 23 where it says that the post-development runoff will be a 24 fraction of the pre-construction runoff, I think, on the 2-, 25 10-, and 100-year frequency, and reduce it by 50, 75, and 46 1 80 percent. That may require some kind of impoundment. I'm 2 not sure where that would -- I think the owner actually owns 3 some of the lots in Bumble Bee Hills, in that area. Is that 4 right? 5 MR. DOMINGUES: Yes, sir. 6 MR. JOHNSTON: That may be a required area 7 for some impoundment to make those requirements work. 8 MR. DOMINGUES: Well, right up in here, they 9 are kind of putting some -- some dam-type structures in here 10 to identify this area here, which there could be impounding 11 placed in this area here, and also there is a large draw 12 here that can't be used for anything, and a large 13 impoundment can easily be put into this draw here. 14 MR. JOHNSTON: I think that's what we need to 15 be included in our hydrology study. 16 MR. DOMINGUES: This draw that's right there, 17 it drains down -- it's a big draw there, and it's easy to 18 put anything there necessary to handle the problem. 19 MR. JOHNSTON: I just wanted to bring that to 20 -- you know, that's what we're expecting on the final 21 platting. And everything else, I think we've covered. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: What about the high water 23 access, Franklin? 24 MR. JOHNSTON: Yeah, that's another issue. A 25 lot of subdivisions with only one entrance across an actual 47 1 floodplain, during a flood event, they would be -- you know, 2 couldn't get out. They do have a little road shown up here 3 on the very top, kind of goes off to the side of the plat. 4 Not sure where that goes, or if there could be an easement 5 there somewhere, if they could get out on another exit. 6 And, no, we haven't talked about that. 7 MR. DOMINGUES: That adjacent property there 8 is Cypress Springs, which will probably have future 9 developments in it. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Adjacent to the east? 11 MR. DOMINGUES: Yes, sir, to the east up 12 here. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 14 MR. JOHNSTON: Okay. That's the -- I think 15 they have a preliminary plat approved on that back part of 16 that. 17 MR. DOMINGUES: They do. 18 MR. JOHNSTON: Part of it, I'm not sure what 19 phase. But I'm wondering if they can work out and 20 coordinate, you know, a way for high water access through 21 that -- as far as tying subdivisions, that's part of our 22 rules, to tie them in. And -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that's a good 24 point. I think that's a real good idea, to visit with the 25 developer and see if you can't have an access there to tie 48 1 the two developments together. 2 MR. JOHNSTON: For emergency exit and 3 ingress. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Either way, emergency or 5 other access. I mean, just -- I mean, we're -- 6 MR. JOHNSTON: We're working on both plats at 7 the same time here. It seems like they can work something 8 out to make them tie together. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think our policy has 10 been that we, one, try to have roads interconnect as much as 11 possible in the county to avoid other areas of problems. 12 Franklin, so you recommend preliminary plat approval, 13 subject to -- 14 MR. JOHNSTON: Subject to what we just 15 discussed, yes. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: We have a number of people 17 who want to talk. We have a number of individuals who have 18 signed up to address the Court on this issue. Before we do 19 that, do any members of the Court have any questions for 20 Franklin or Mr. Domingues? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I have a 22 question. I'm not sure who it's to, but I know on the 23 routing slips here, it just kind of struck me as a -- as a 24 large number, and I'm kind of concerned about this. 25 U.G.R.A., the fee amount paid is $440. What -- what's the 49 1 -- what do get for that $440? I'd be interested in knowing. 2 What did they get -- what did you give them for $440? 3 MR. BARRON: I'd have to follow up on it. I 4 think our routing is usually $75. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You know, the -- when 6 I saw the $440, I thought, whew, that was pretty high. It's 7 a large number. It may be something -- and then I'm 8 wondering, if they come back for the final plat, is there 9 another $440? I'm -- it just seems like kind of a large 10 number to be there this early in the ball game, when they -- 11 when they're really talking about concept here. Am I the 12 only one on earth that thinks that way? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How many are they 14 reviewing? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know. 16 MR. JOHNSTON: Did you work on the 17 floodplain? 18 MR. BARRON: We worked on the floodplain and 19 the O.S.S.F. I think they're $75 apiece. I'll look into it 20 and see where -- where the -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 22 MR. BARRON: -- additional money's going. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, thank you. 24 MR. JOHNSTON: I might make one comment about 25 the form of the -- of the plats. I know it's presented 50 1 as -- like an architectural drawing, and they have a little 2 note there that said they would -- you know, it says -- on a 3 subsequent letter, it said it would be okay for this 4 approval. They said they would sign and seal the final 5 plat. Really, we don't want an architect to sign the final 6 plat; we want a surveyor to sign off on the final plat. So, 7 they need to review the form, I think, of the final plat. 8 Should be -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I had that same 10 concern. This letter here from the architect to Judge 11 Henneke said once all necessary regulatory agencies have 12 reviewed, then we will do the final. I don't think that's 13 the way it works. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, I think, you know, as 15 far as that issue is concerned, we have to rely upon 16 Franklin and Leonard. 17 MR. JOHNSTON: Yeah, we'll work -- 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: They won't allow anything to 19 come before the Court until it's in the proper form,, with 20 everything signed off on the proper approval. 21 MR. JOHNSTON: It's just kind of a heads-up. 22 It's -- we probably won't accept it if it's not right. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just want to make sure 24 that the final sign-off is here. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Let's hear from some 51 1 of the members of the public on this issue. David Jackson? 2 Did you want to address us on this, sir? 3 MR. JACKSON: Good morning. I'm here 4 primarily to answer any questions you've got with respect to 5 the high water issue. We can certainly investigate that 6 alternative, but it's not likely, 'cause we don't have 7 control of that property. I mean, it's possible and so 8 forth. It's my understanding that the flood event and the 9 issues of which the entrance road would not be available 10 under a flood event would be the same as Highway 39. That 11 is to say, if you -- even if you got out, you couldn't go 12 down the highway, because it too would be flooded at the 13 very same time. Let's see. You -- it is septics. You can 14 use the common area for a drain field. You talked about the 15 hydrology; we understand we've got to work on that. And 16 there was one other question. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Water availability. 18 MR. JACKSON: Water availability is assured 19 through Bumble Bee -- I actually checked with the T.N.R.C.C. 20 before -- or as part of our preliminary evaluation of the 21 project from a legal point of view, and much, if not all, of 22 this area is in the Certificate of Convenience, a necessity 23 for Bumble Bee Hills' water system that Vlasek's company 24 operates. But we've got to go -- we understand we've got to 25 go through the drill of getting actually approved. But that 52 1 is -- that's, A, true from the State's point of view, and B, 2 we have an agreement that that, in fact, will happen. Other 3 than that, I'm here to answer any questions you have, and my 4 clients are here as well. Got any questions of me? 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anyone have any questions of 6 Mr. Jackson or the owners? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: David, you made a comment 8 that it's unlikely to be able to tie into Clear Springs -- 9 Cypress Springs. 10 MR. JACKSON: Right. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there a reason you 12 think it's unlikely? 13 MR. JACKSON: Sure. I don't think the 14 development has come that far, and so Cypress, if you're 15 looking at your plats off to the right, is over here 16 somewhere. And if you conditioned our plat on developing 17 that access, it might be years before they actually got to 18 the boundary. I wouldn't want to mislead anybody and say, 19 sure, we'll look at that, but I don't think -- even if those 20 discussions began tomorrow, I don't think anything would 21 happen for several years, just because of the topography and 22 all that. It's possible, but not probable, is what I wanted 23 to say. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, you know, what 25 could be done on both developments is that the -- in the 53 1 platting process, the roads could be showed to adjoin. 2 Whether they're built or not, who knows. 3 MR. JACKSON: That would be -- sure. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You wouldn't have 5 control -- 6 MR. JACKSON: Sure, that's easy to do. This 7 is a gated community, and so you'll have that issue as well, 8 but so is Cypress, so it's not an unthinkable thing. Sure. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other questions or 10 concerns? 11 MS. FOX: May I make a reply to what 12 Mr. Jackson just said? 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Just a moment, okay? 14 MR. JACKSON: I'll be available if you have 15 any questions. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay, thank you. Next person 17 who signed up to address the Court is Andrew Bachofen. 18 MR. BACHOFEN: Bachofen. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Bachofen, sorry. 20 MR. BACHOFEN: Good morning. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Good morning, sir. 22 MR. BACHOFEN: First of all, I'm Andrew 23 Bachofen; I'm one of the many property owners of the 24 property that sits right in here. It's a property called 25 Pleasure Hill. Pleasure Hill is the 20-plus acre tract that 54 1 adjoins the proposed development to the south, between it 2 and the Guadalupe River. My grandfather, great, 3 great-uncle, and Edwards cousins built many of the homes in 4 Pleasure Hills during the 1920's and the '30's. In the 5 mid-1900's, the property directly behind Pleasure Hill, 6 approximately 7 acres of the proposed Stablewood plat, was 7 stripped of most of its vegetation. This drastically 8 changed the water drainage through our properties, and 9 particularly the county road that served us is being eroded. 10 The plat over here does not show that county road. All 11 along the road, the sides are being washed away. The 12 drainage gully, which handles most of the runoff from the 13 Stablewood plat is widening and threatening to collapse the 14 county road near where the county road joins Highway 39. 15 This has already happened; it's not a matter of "maybe it 16 will be a problem." I am concerned because increased 17 uncontrolled runoff from any development that would take 18 place upslope from us, particularly from the 26 or 27 septic 19 systems that are planned, will have a catastrophic effect on 20 our property and the county road that serves us. Thank you. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you, sir. Catherine 22 Fox? 23 MS. FOX: Yes. Before I begin, I would like 24 to disagree with what Mr. Jackson just said about it was his 25 understanding during the flood event, that entrance and exit 55 1 would be the same as Highway 39, and you wouldn't be able to 2 go anywhere. An example might be that you could have an 3 extremely heavy rainfall with a large amount coming down 4 very rapidly on the north side of the proposed development, 5 near Mountain Home, and Bumble Bee Creek would be flooded 6 immensely. Those people, if there were an emergency, would 7 not be able to get out. However, the Guadalupe would not 8 have had a large amount of rain, say up past Hunt, and you 9 would still be able to cross the Bumble Bee Creek bridge on 10 Highway 39, and thus continue on to Ingram and Kerrville. 11 Thank you. 12 I am a native of Kerr County. I was raised 13 on a hill situated below and south of Sites 22 and 23 of the 14 proposed development. My family and I currently live on 15 this property near my parents. I have firsthand knowledge 16 of the proposed development, because my grandparents were 17 once caretakers for this proposed development property for 18 over 10 years. I have explored every inch of this proposed 19 development on numerous occasions. I'm opposed to the 20 development of Stablewood Springs Ranch for the following 21 reasons: Number one, during the course of my lifetime, over 22 40 years, our property has never experienced the flooding 23 from the north side that it has experienced since the 24 developer has cleared cedar and underbrush for home sites 25 and roads, et cetera. My father and I, with permission, 56 1 viewed this clearing. Where cedar had once been thick, 2 sites are now cleared and prepared. 3 Number two, due to the clearing directly 4 above us, we are now dealing with, A, soil erosion problems 5 on our property; B, undermining of our asphalt private 6 driveway, which connects to Highway 39; C, destruction of 7 landscaping projects; D, flooding in our two-car garage and 8 my husband's office in areas that have never in my lifetime 9 had problems. In addition, my father and I have spent over 10 four hours on two separate occasions wet-vacuuming water out 11 of our neighbor's summer home. 12 Number three, the proposed channeling of much 13 of the development's excess runoff into their lake, which 14 then flows into Bumble Bee Creek, will ultimately speed the 15 natural erosion of the creek's banks. The excessive 16 increase of water flowing down the creek will also 17 contribute to increased flood damage of the following, 18 especially when the Guadalupe and the Bumble Bee Creek are 19 cresting at the same time: A, the bridge structure proper; 20 B, Highway 39's roadbed for the southeast-bound lane, which 21 Bill Tucker has already looked at. I have informed TexDOT 22 of this in writing. They have come out and looked at it. 23 C, our rock pump house; D, our private drive entrance; and 24 E, our riverfront property, which is at the confluence of 25 the creek and the river. This is of grave concern to me, 57 1 because the above are either at or very close to the 2 confluence of Bumble Bee Creek and the Guadalupe. 3 Four, and finally, the lives and property of 4 numerous people -- please look at the handout that I've 5 given you -- are or may very well be directly affected by 6 this proposed development. The majority of these properties 7 existed pre-Stablewood Ranch plans. As we and numerous 8 neighbors are already experiencing flooding and/or erosion, 9 I have serious, valid concerns about what we would 10 experience with roads and homes in place on the proposed 11 development. I also challenge a water drainage plan that 12 uses Bumble Bee Creek, within the limits of how flooding 13 occurs now, to insure that said plan will not contribute 14 dramatically to the flooding of neighboring properties in 15 times of great flood events, like the floods of '32, '59, 16 and '78, or in times of extremely rapid rainfall amounts 17 when water runoff does not always flow where projected, as 18 was apparent in the October 2000 flood, which proved to be 19 very problematic for us and several neighbors. Ten inches 20 fell in less than five hours, the first rapid rainfall event 21 since the development's clearing. You will recall that Kerr 22 County, to that point, had been experiencing a major drought 23 pattern. I implore you, the Commissioners, to remember that 24 it is your duty to protect the welfare and safety of the 25 citizens of Kerr County, myself and my neighbors inclusive. 58 1 I urge you, the Commissioners, to examine the Stablewood 2 Springs Ranch proposal with intense scrutiny given to runoff 3 and drainage issues, and either deny or considerably 4 downsize this development. Thank you very much. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you, Ms. Fox. Anyone 6 have any questions? Okay. Next is George Vlasek. 7 MR. VLASEK: My name is George Vlasek. I've 8 lived in the area in question for 52 years. My parents 9 ranched that piece of property, so I know it like the back 10 of my hand. And, for starters, you know, they are dividing 11 up the total acreage to the number of house sites and 12 saying, you know, it averages such. Every side of that 13 place just falls right off into big hollers and hillsides 14 except the north side, and that water's got to go somewhere. 15 And I've watched the flow of this water on this creek for 16 years. I'm interested in it. I'm horticulturally trained. 17 I'm not degreed, but I know a lot about plants and water and 18 all of that, and I've watched this through the years. And, 19 right on our piece of property, bedrock outcrops there, and 20 in years past when we'd get good rains, water would seep out 21 there in this natural escape deal, depending on the rain, 22 for days, and then sometimes for weeks. 23 And we have a little ornamental bridge below 24 the house where some conglomerate rock juts out, and through 25 the years that has always seeped water to the point of a 59 1 delicate maidenhair fern and wood fern being able to 2 survive. And even during the '50's drought, as dry as it 3 was, it stayed damp enough there to maintain the vitality of 4 this fern. Well, as numerous people have acquired that 5 piece of property and started hacking on it, the first 6 thing -- there was a number of acres on a flat right behind 7 our house denuded, and we had a pretty damn good rain, and 8 the next thing you know, there was mud and rocks right up 9 next to my house. Too late in the year to plant any other 10 kind of grass. Children were small. I raked it off the 11 best I could and planted in oats and barley and every dadgum 12 thing that would grow during cold weather. 13 And, some other observations. You know, when 14 water -- water falls and there's enough trees in an area 15 that have left a sponge, so to speak, that naturally decays 16 and fills up with billions of particles from the cellulose 17 in the plant, the -- the trees break that rain, it falls on 18 all of this big sponge and has time to sit there a while to 19 percolate down. Water percolates down until it hits 20 something impervious, and then it finds its natural escape 21 routes, vis-a-vis just leaking off into the creek gradually, 22 seeping out, hitting bedrock and seeping out, getting in 23 springs and going down, and they usually wind up in the 24 river. And, you know, when I was a big old kid, after a 25 good rise, we could take a quarter and throw it in the river 60 1 and see it down there. And Commissioner Baldwin can attest 2 to that; he also knows that. He's lived there, and he's 3 Bumble Bee Creek oriented also. He could dive down there 4 and get that quarter with no problem. 5 The river's getting greener every year, no 6 matter what they do up there. They can blow it up in the 7 air and evaporate it or put it here and there. What's going 8 to happen to these nitrates from all of those septic tanks? 9 They're going to get in the river when it rains one way or 10 the other, and what that does is make the algae explode. 11 And the only contributing good factor to that may be on some 12 St. Patrick's Day, we won't have to stain it green; it will 13 be green. This time of the year, when it's cold, it's too 14 cold for algae to grow in the river. The rest of the time, 15 it's just getting worse all the time. And where all the -- 16 I have never had water in my shop until here recently, when 17 we've had these hard rains. I've had rocks as large as 18 softballs in front of the door, and water in it, and it's 19 running in places it has never run before, and I've watched 20 it for 52 years. 21 So, I think that this would be a bad thing 22 for not only us, but for Kerr County, to let people continue 23 to do this, cutting it down and burning it up. Ashes are 24 extremely fine, and anybody that's been around it a while, 25 they get in cracks and stuff, and they make water impervious 61 1 to percolation. It just can't go -- it's sort of like 2 cementing it up. What Kerr County really needs to do with 3 all of these tracts is make them grind it up and blow that 4 mulch on the ground. Most of us are all schooled, vis-a-vis 5 radio, about how important mulch is today, and when they do 6 that, they're getting rid of nature's mulch. The runoff is 7 going to be greater no matter what, and if they funnel it 8 somewhere, somebody's going to bear the brunt of it anyway. 9 Thank you. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you, sir. Mary Fox? 11 MS. FROST: Frost. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Frost, I'm sorry. 13 MS. FROST: Mary Hart Frost. You have a copy 14 of my statement, and you also have some pictures that I'm 15 submitting to you to review. My husband and I are owners of 16 a home on Lots 27 and 28 in the Bumble Bee Hills 17 subdivision. Let me show you where that is. It's right 18 here. We got a Release of Easement so that we could put a 19 house across that line. The other lots I'm going to talk 20 about are directly behind our house. They're the ones that 21 are Lots 49, 48, 47, 46, and 45. These lots share a common 22 boundary along Bumble Bee Creek with lots in the proposed 23 Stablewood Springs Ranch development. I also share 24 ownership of property with my cousins at Pleasure Hill, 25 which is a family development established in the 1920's. 62 1 Both of these properties abut the proposed Stablewood 2 Springs Ranch site, and have been and will be further 3 adversely affected by the proposed development. 4 Our Pleasure Hill property has already 5 suffered from runoff flooding in cabins located there 6 because of the bulldozer clearing and burning of all cedar 7 from the proposed development site. A home located on Lot 8 40 in the Bumble Bee Hills subdivision also suffered runoff 9 flooding damage in October 2000. Our property will suffer 10 significant additional runoff flooding damage during 11 construction of roads and home sites. The clearing already 12 done has damaged the natural drainage gully by the Pleasure 13 Hill road that, for years, has carried the rain runoff to 14 the Guadalupe River under Highway 39. This natural drainage 15 gully has been eroded by the increased rain runoff due to 16 the bare caliche left by the bulldozing and burning of all 17 the cedar. 18 Dirt from Stablewood Springs Ranch site has 19 been dumped on Lots 45, 46, 47, 48, and 49 of the Bumble Bee 20 Hills Subdivision, a subdivision of Kerr County, Texas, 21 according to the plat recorded in Volume 4, Page 187, Plat 22 Records of Kerr County, Texas, to construct a berm along 23 Bumble Bee Creek. These lots are owned by the developer of 24 Stablewood Springs ranch, Thomas Fatjo. These lots are 25 directly behind our property and home in Bumble Bee Hills. 63 1 The site development plan of these lots states that the 2 Flood Insurance Rate Map Community 480419, Panel Number 3 0150B, dated May 1st, 1979, indicates the creek area is 4 located in Flood Zone A, which is a 100-year flood hazard 5 area. The BFE is determined to be elevation equals 6 1,738 feet MSL or higher as the ground elevation rises to 7 the north. A berm along Bumble Bee Creek on these lots will 8 significantly affect the drainage in the floodplain and 9 cause severe erosion to our property, and erosion and 10 flooding to the property and homes of our neighbors along 11 Bumble Bee Creek. I have pictures of the Bumble Bee Creek 12 flood of October 2000 showing how the creek filled the 13 floodplain on Lots 45 through 49, and how near the flood 14 waters came to a house on Lot 35. This berm under 15 construction will significantly change the flow of water in 16 Bumble Bee Creek, and this home, the one on Lot 35 -- I say 17 "could" be underwater. It will be underwater in the next 18 flood. 19 In a letter to the Kerrville Daily Times on 20 July 4, 1995, Burt McAshan stated that in 1987, Bumble Bee 21 Creek rose 28 feet, and that in 1978 he saw rainfall of 27 22 inches in a 24-hour period. This could happen again. 23 Developing the Stablewood Springs Ranch site without 24 providing controlled runoff and flooding protection for the 25 surrounding home and property owners must not be approved by 64 1 this Commissioners Court. Do you have any questions for me? 2 And, by the, way I have talked to -- are you Stuart Barron? 3 MR. BARRON: Yes, ma'am. 4 MS. FROST: I have talked to Stuart Barron 5 about this berm that is already under construction on those 6 lots. He is requiring the developer to submit a permit, 7 because no permit was filed for before they started building 8 the berm, and he is requiring an engineering study. And 9 I'm -- I appreciate that very much. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anyone have any questions for 11 Ms. Frost? Thank you very much. 12 MS. FROST: Thank you. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Is there anyone else who 14 wishes to address the Court on this issue of preliminary 15 plat? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I'll just make 17 some general comments. I think -- appreciate the concern of 18 all of the citizens. Our Subdivision Rules, fortunately, 19 are some of the stricter probably of the state, and we 20 address, because of the topography, drainage issues probably 21 more so than almost any other county. And that is why we -- 22 I had the earlier comments that you all heard regarding the 23 drainage issues. And our Subdivision Rules will require 24 that very strict standards be met regarding runoff. With 25 that being said, I understand people's objection to 65 1 development, but the owners of this property also have the 2 right to develop their property, and it's certainly -- one 3 of y'all said something that we have the obligation to 4 protect the citizens of the county, which we do, but we also 5 have the obligation to protect citizens from the standpoint 6 of allowing them to develop their private property. So, you 7 know, I do not see -- I could not vote to deny this 8 development in any way, but I can assure the public that we 9 will do everything we can within our Subdivision Rules to 10 protect the other property owners in the area. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My only comment is 12 that I have had that attitude for a number of years, that as 13 long as a private property owner complies with state law and 14 local rules and regulations, there is no -- there is no way 15 I can stop it, anyway. But you're right, Mr. Vlasek, I did 16 grow up on that creek, and I -- my heart still is out there 17 in those hills and with my good neighbors like Mr. Vlasek 18 that I grew up around, and I can assure you that I will 19 assist our Engineer's office in any way I can to provide 20 intense scrutiny to runoff and drainage issues. I think 21 that this -- on this particular issue, the County should 22 require the developer to dot every I and cross every T 23 before it even comes back into this courtroom. But it 24 appears that they're meeting all state laws and rules and 25 regulations of the county, so I don't see any legal way that 66 1 I could deny it. I mean, I can be a horse's butt and vote 2 against it for fun, but it doesn't mean anything. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes, sir? 4 MR. BACHOFEN: Yes, sir. I understand what 5 you say, and I believe in private property rights also, and 6 the right to develop. However, this particular developer 7 twice now has commenced working on this property in such a 8 way that it impacted us without having any permits or any 9 right to do that, if -- if he was going to go by the -- by 10 the county and the state law. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: My only comment would 13 be in support of Commissioner Letz and Baldwin. We will 14 look very carefully at the hydrology issues, the runoff 15 issues, to make certain that there is not corollary damage 16 to other people's property. That's important. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are you saying to me 18 that -- that it is actually being developed without approval 19 of the government? Is that what you're saying? 20 MR. BACHOFEN: The first project -- first 21 project that cleared this and put roads in there was done 22 without any prior approval. They then came back and 23 attempted to get approval. It was turned down. All this 24 site development that has already taken place up here has 25 already taken place. 67 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't recall this 2 being here before. Has it? 3 MS. HARDIN: 1995. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: David? 5 MS. HARDIN: 1995 and again in '97, I 6 believe. 7 MR. BACHOFEN: It's been here before. 8 MR. JACKSON: It is true that my client has 9 been here before for another kind of development, and it was 10 abandoned because it probably could not comply with your 11 regulations. And, as you've already said, the -- the 12 difficulty with development is if you comply with the rules, 13 you should be allowed to do that. In terms of beginning 14 work before, anybody has the right to clear their property. 15 Anybody has the right to put a road, whether it be your own 16 house or whatever. What happens under your regulations is 17 that you must comply with the Subdivision Regulations at the 18 time when you begin to split the property up. That is, sell 19 it. And we've not made any sales. So, we -- we understand 20 perfectly well, as I know you know that I know that we can't 21 move forward with the development without your approval. 22 But, with respect to the criticisms of clearing and 23 drainage, A, it's already happened, B, it could have 24 happened without any permit whatsoever. I understand the 25 berm issue, and that's quite right. We are dealing with 68 1 that issue, and that's a fair criticism. So, I don't want 2 the Court to get the idea that we're any different than 3 anybody else who conceives of a development, but to clear 4 cedar to understand what your development is, is all that's 5 happened here. If there are drainage issues, you bet, I 6 think each of your comments is absolutely correct. We 7 understand we need to comply with each and every aspect of 8 the regulation and the state law. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question. Have the roads 10 been, you know, constructed, or just basically cleared? I 11 mean, because there is an issue, if the roads are being -- 12 we have the right to, and we'll test the roads to make sure 13 they're meeting our standards. 14 MR. JACKSON: Right, absolutely. We went to 15 Franklin and said, "We're going to begin our roads," so that 16 we could get some idea of what the development would look 17 like. In order to see how it works, you've got to get in 18 there, and I believe we've set up a mechanism by which you 19 can inspect. We understand that it has to comply, and 20 second, it has to be inspected. Thank you. 21 MS. FROST: I have another comment. This is 22 the road, Bumble Bee Drive, that comes into Bumble Bee Hills 23 and then goes across to the back property. The developer 24 has a gate across that county road, and the road that goes 25 off to the left, if you see what I'm talking about, that is 69 1 still a county road. We made an agreement -- the Bumble Bee 2 Hills Property Owners Association made an out-of-court 3 settlement with Mr. Fatjo in return for his not continuing 4 to try to put a road through a residential lot, which was 5 Lot 39, but we did not release these lots from our plat. 6 These are still under the deed restrictions of the Codes, 7 Covenants, and Restrictions of the Bumble Bee Hills Property 8 Owners Association. And this road which he is apparently 9 going to make part of Paddock is a county road called Mabee. 10 It is not -- it is not paved, but it is still a county road. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Do we -- Franklin, do we 12 recognize that as a county road? Do you know, Truby? Is -- 13 MS. HARDIN: It is a public access road, but 14 not county-maintained. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: So, it is not a county road, 16 per se, but it is public access. There's a question whether 17 there should be a gate or not. 18 MR. JACKSON: And all of that's true. I -- 19 those lots are not part of this plat. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Right. 21 MR. JACKSON: But all of what she has said is 22 correct. Those are all subject to those restrictions. 23 They're all sitting there just as they have for years, 24 although they are in the floodplain, as she points out. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes, sir? One more time. 70 1 MR. BACHOFEN: One of Mr. Franklin's 2 comments, I think, represents sort of the attitude of the 3 developer of this property, and that is it's all right for 4 me to go ahead and do something as long as I haven't yet 5 applied to the County Commissioners. The damage that he's 6 done to our properties was done prior to his application, so 7 therefore it was legal. However, it still has caused damage 8 to our properties. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I might address that. 10 I'm hearing a couple of issues -- that particular issue, 11 sir, you made, and the other one regarding complying with 12 the rules of Bumble Bee -- Bumble Bee Subdivision, that's a 13 civil matter. That's really beyond the scope of this Court. 14 And if -- if there's an issue on either of those, if he's 15 done something to damage the property, that's a civil matter 16 that you need to take up directly. And, likewise, if he's 17 not complying with some requirements in your subdivision, 18 that's another civil matter that we really have no 19 jurisdiction over, I don't believe. I want to -- 20 MS. FROST: Could I ask Truby something, just 21 for my clarification? What is the -- the situation, then, 22 with this Bumble Bee Road? Do you mean the county -- this 23 is all paved, and the gate is across a paved, county road? 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: It is not a county road. 25 It's not a county-maintained road. 71 1 MS. FROST: At all? 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: No. The Road and Bridge 3 Department is telling me that is not a county-maintained 4 road. We do not accept -- 5 MS. HARDIN: I was told this morning that it 6 went up to the gate. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: But the County -- 8 MS. FROST: All of our roads in the Bumble 9 Bee Hills Subdivision are county-maintained. 10 MS. HARDIN: I asked this morning. They said 11 that they maintained Bumble Bee Drive up to the gate. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: But not beyond the gate? 13 MS. HARDIN: Not beyond the gate. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is it a public road 15 beyond that gate? I don't care if -- 16 MS. HARDIN: It is a platted road. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is it a public road? 18 Doesn't need to be a gate across a public road. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's -- that's a different 20 issue. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There does not need to 22 be a gate across a public road. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Let's go back to the agenda 24 item, if we can wrap this one up. The issue before us is 25 the preliminary plat of Stablewood Springs Ranch in Precinct 72 1 4. What's the Court's pleasure? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion that 3 we approve preliminary plat, approval subject to the 4 comments made by Road and Bridge Department, and 5 specifically note that there are significant concerns about 6 the hydrology issues on this property, and those will need 7 to be resolved prior to final plat approval. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is -- I'll second 9 it, but this is a preliminary plat, correct? 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Correct. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And there is one more 12 round of this before anything is authorized, and that's 13 considered the final plat, where everything needs to be in 14 and done. Everything needs to be done before it reaches 15 approval at that point; is that correct? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That is correct. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. I'll second the 18 motion. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner Letz, 20 second by Commissioner Baldwin, that the Court approve the 21 preliminary plat of Stablewood Springs Ranch in Precinct 4, 22 subject to the comments by the Road and Bridge Department, 23 particularly of the emphasis upon the hydrology concerns and 24 study for that property. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, if I could make 73 1 one more comment, probably to Mr. Jackson. If there are 2 significant changes between the preliminary plat and the 3 final plat, I would suggest or recommend that you bring it 4 back prior to final plat approval, 'cause I don't see us 5 approving a final plat if there's significant changes to 6 what we're looking at right now. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. I agree. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One member of the 9 public still wishes to speak, Judge. 10 MS. FOX: One little thing. I thought you 11 said this was more of a -- of a concept plan. A preliminary 12 plat -- it doesn't have a seal on it anywhere, and I don't 13 know the law, but I was under the impression that this 14 really didn't qualify, per se, as a preliminary plat. Could 15 you please clarify that for someone who doesn't know the 16 law? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a good 18 question. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I'm relying on 20 the Road and Bridge Department for details, and if they're 21 recommending it based -- subject to their letter, I'm going 22 by that basis. 23 MR. JOHNSTON: The preliminary plat, we 24 changed it to make it less formal. I think in the old days 25 you had to actually survey the preliminary plat, and I think 74 1 now, in our current rules, the preliminary is less formal, 2 so changes could be made at this stage. But the final plat 3 will definitely -- definitely be sealed and surveyed. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the reason for that 5 change was to make sure that we got these to us earlier in 6 the process so we could have input, because we were -- prior 7 to our last Subdivision Rules change, it was just -- 8 subdivisions were kind of moving along and work was being 9 done before we ever knew about them, and we couldn't make a 10 lot of these recommendations and changes. So, we moved the 11 preliminary plat process forward so we would have more input 12 into the final plat approval. But -- and the -- I guess the 13 difference between the two makes for the final plat 14 approval -- a lot more work has to go into that. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion's been made and 16 seconded. Any further questions or comments? If not, all 17 in favor, raise your right hand. 18 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. The next 20 item we're going to take up, we need to take up very 21 quickly. We had a hearing posted for 10 o'clock. It's Item 22 Number 17, public hearing to consider the application filed 23 by W. E. Burgess for the revision of a preliminary plat of 24 Lots 18, 19, and 20 of Twin Springs Ranch in Precinct 2. 25 Franklin? Commissioner Williams? 75 1 (The regular Commissioners Court meeting was closed at 10:29 a.m., and a public hearing 2 was held in open court, as follows:) 3 P U B L I C H E A R I N G 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mr. Johnston? 5 MR. JOHNSTON: This is a public hearing only. 6 I don't think they're asking for any plat approval. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: This is a public hearing on 8 the application for revision of a preliminary plat of Lots 9 18, 19, and 20 of Twin Springs Ranch in Precinct 2. Is 10 there any individual who'd like to address the Court 11 regarding the issue of the preliminary plat of Lots 18, 19, 12 and 20 of Twin Springs Ranch in Precinct 2? Is there anyone 13 who -- once again, is there anyone who'd like to address the 14 Court regarding the issue of the preliminary plat of Lots 15 18, 19, and 20 of Twin Springs Ranch? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, there were two 17 gentlemen from the Twin Springs Ranch in the -- they may be 18 in the annex outside the door. Can we have somebody see if 19 they're out there? 'Cause I saw them both step into the 20 court earlier. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I saw Mr. Voelkel. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The gentleman I 23 recognized -- he just stuck his head around the corner. 24 MR. JONS: If you need me, I represent the 25 developer on Twin Springs Ranch, but I don't have anything 76 1 to say. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay, thank you, Mr. Jons. 3 Okay. This is -- this is the public hearing on the issue of 4 the revision of a preliminary plat of Lots 18, 19, and 20 of 5 Twin Springs Ranch in Precinct 2. Is there any member of 6 the court who'd like to address us on the issue of revision 7 of preliminary plat of Lots 18, 19, and 20 of Twin Springs 8 Ranch? Yes, sir, come forward and identify yourself, 9 please. 10 MR. LIDIAK: My name is Tim Lidiak. I'm an 11 owner of Lot Number 2 in that subdivision. I guess our -- 12 we had a meeting -- Mr. Williams was there -- with the 13 principals. And I guess our concern, as several members of 14 the homeowners of the subdivision are here, we were not 15 aware that this was going to be done. We've never been 16 consulted about the plan. There is additional road being 17 added to our subdivision, of which we will be responsible. 18 That adds cost to us. The way the plat was asked to be 19 changed, it increases the total road miles. I just have a 20 little exhibit. Can I give it -- 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes, sure. 22 MR. LIDIAK: -- present it to you guys? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 24 MR. LIDIAK: That's an assumption on my part, 25 is basically the travel distance from each lot to our front 77 1 gate. Assuming one vehicle per day, per lot, just to be 2 able to compare apples to apples. Shows the present 3 situation, where the total road mileage for the subdivision 4 will be 31 and a half, basically. With the way the new lots 5 would be added, and then the Lots 18, 19, and 20 would be 6 divided, changed, and the road access would be added to the 7 back of our subdivision instead of to the front where they 8 are now, it increases the total road mileage to 48 miles, 9 which is about a 54 percent increase in our road use. 10 Adding four lots to our subdivision adds four paying members 11 to our subdivision, which, out of -- we have an existing 21 12 right now, so that's about a 19 percent increase in our 13 moneys that we would receive. Then adding 3,050 feet of 14 road to our subdivision adds roughly 18 percent to our road 15 system, which basically covers what they would add, and 16 doesn't allow anything for this increased mileage on our 17 road. This is just the economic point of view that -- that 18 they're going to create a burden on the existing lot owners 19 as far as maintenance, substantially increasing our 20 maintenance that we'll be responsible for. 21 The other aspect is just that it's kind of -- 22 as we understand, this addition is being sort of open-ended 23 to us. We don't know how many more lots could be added. 24 Some of these lots could be subdivided into more lots. We 25 basically don't have any control over it; we haven't been 78 1 asked. No one's -- the developers of the subdivision, or 2 the man that's adding these lots has never approached the 3 homeowners, most of which -- or several of which, anyway, 4 live out of state, to talk about what's going on about this, 5 and basically we don't like it, and basically, you can see 6 that there is an added cost to us of which we won't be 7 covered. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. Anyone else who'd 9 like to address the Court during this public hearing? Yes, 10 sir, come forward, please. 11 MR. SUESS: My name is Gene Suess, and I 12 currently reside on Lot Number 6 in Twin Springs Ranch. I 13 also attended the meeting that Tim was at with the 14 principals of the new addition to the subdivision, and I 15 concur with his assessment. And I also object to this 16 thing, and particularly the way it's been handled. And I -- 17 as I understand it, the covenants and restrictions for Twin 18 Springs Ranch allow these people to add whatever property 19 that's contiguous to their property, whether they own it or 20 not. I also understand that the covenants and restrictions 21 states quite specifically that any changes to road 22 arrangements, locations or otherwise, have to be approved by 23 the owners. And the road that they're going to put from 24 this new addition attaches to the existing road that's in 25 Twin Springs Ranch. Therefore, I saw that it needs owner 79 1 approval by the current owners, and there has not been any 2 consultation with the owners. And I was told at this 3 meeting that that's not a change to the roads, but I'm 4 sorry, since the roads have a right-of-way, although it's 5 private, that road does cross Twin Springs Ranch 1 property 6 to get attached to the existing road. 7 And, furthermore, the developers of Twin 8 Springs Ranch, I find, have not lived up to their 9 responsibilities so far as required by the planning that you 10 folks approve, in the sense that I went to the Road and 11 Bridge Department to find out about road markers and signs, 12 and I was told that there's supposed to be a plan submitted 13 with a final approval, and they couldn't find a plan, and 14 basically told me there probably wasn't one. So, I'm a 15 little disappointed in the fact that there is no plan for 16 the roads and the markers, and nothing was done, but finally 17 they did put a road sign at the corner of Spur 100 and Twin 18 Springs Road. So, I'm a little disappointed in the people 19 that subdivide land and have the restrictions and covenants 20 and rules and regulations, and they don't seem to be able to 21 get them all done. And now we're going to go ahead and add 22 to the existing plat, and they don't seem to live up to 23 their old plat. That's my objections. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you, sir. Is there 25 anyone else who'd like to address the Court during this 80 1 public hearing? 2 MR. CANTER: Commissioners and Judge Henneke, 3 my name is Ron Canter. I'm -- my wife and I are owners of 4 Ranch Lot Number 13 in the Twin Springs development. I 5 object to the approval of the replat on consideration for 6 several reasons. One, there is no agreement between the 7 parties that the replatted lots and new lots from the 8 Creekwood land will be subject to the exact same deed 9 restrictions and covenants as the property owners in Twin 10 Springs Ranch. It is my understanding that Mr. Burgess' 11 legal counsel has stated they will be substantially the 12 same. That, to me, is legalese, and we should not have to 13 parse words. They will either be the same or they will not 14 be. And I think that if they're going to have access to our 15 roads and we're going to be paying for it, they need to be 16 the same restrictions and covenants that we currently have. 17 To my knowledge, there's no agreement for the 18 owners of the new lots to bear their fair proportion of the 19 increased cost to maintain the subdivision roads and the 20 upkeep of the common areas. This has already been covered 21 with Mr. Suess' comments, and also by Tim, but it does 22 appear that the current property owners will be the ones to 23 shoulder a higher proportion of the increased costs, and 24 this is just not fair to the current owners. And Mr. Suess 25 brought up a moment ago the existing covenants have not been 81 1 followed. They call for a vote of the property owners to 2 approve any road changes. It is my understanding that 3 Mr. Burgess' legal counsel believes this does not apply, 4 because in his opinion, the roads aren't being changed, and 5 I -- I, like Mr. Suess, disagree. If you tie 3,000 feet of 6 new road into the existing roads, that is a change to the 7 roads. If the new road is stopped short of our current road 8 by several feet, then there is no change to the existing 9 roads, but obviously this is not going to be the case. So, 10 I think the existing property owners have the right to 11 expect the developers to follow the rules that they wrote 12 into the covenants, and I request the Court require this 13 provision for a vote to be enforced before any decision is 14 rendered by the Court. 15 It is unfortunate that this new project has 16 been handled in the way it has. I believe a lot of acrimony 17 and hard feelings that now exist regarding this matter could 18 have been easily avoided. Instead of beginning this project 19 and then presenting it to the property owners as a fait 20 accompli, it would have been much better for the original 21 developer and their representatives to have been up front 22 about this matter. All it would have taken would have been 23 a letter before the new project began explaining what was 24 proposed, what benefits they saw to the existing 25 development, and information of how the maintenance costs 82 1 could be worked out and a few other items. All it would 2 have taken would have been some honest, up-front 3 communications, and I believe things could have been -- have 4 been resolved without acrimony. But sometimes the ring of 5 the cash register is much louder than the inner call for 6 good judgment and common courtesy. Unfortunately, I think 7 that is what happened in this situation. Thank you. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you, sir. Anyone else 9 who'd like to address the Court during this public hearing? 10 MR. LIDIAK: Judge, I had a letter from one 11 of the other property owners. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Is it from Mr. Lousma? I've 13 got it. 14 MR. LIDIAK: Oh, did you, from Mr. Lousma? 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yeah. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you have other 17 copies of it? 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Tim, do you have other 19 copies? 20 MR. LIDIAK: Just this one. That's fine. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes, sir? 22 MR. BOMAR: I'm James Bomar, and my wife and 23 I both own Lot 11 and 12 of the development. And we're 24 against it and want to protest it, based on what all of them 25 said here. 83 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you, sir. Anyone else 2 who'd like to address the Court during the public hearing? 3 One more time, is there anyone else who'd like to address 4 the Court during the public hearing on the issue of revision 5 of Lots 18, 19, and 20 of Twin Springs Ranch? 6 MR. JONS: Your Honor, let me say a couple 7 words. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: All right, Mr. Jons. 9 MR. JONS: This -- this matter -- my name is 10 Rit Jons; I'm an attorney in Kerrville, Texas. Been here 11 for quite a while. I represent the developer, Mr. Gene 12 Burgess. Most of the complaints -- all of the complaints 13 that you hear are similar to the complaints in the previous 14 issue that was before the Court, which relate basically to 15 matters which this Court does not have jurisdiction over. 16 First of all, let me tell you that my client -- Mr. Voelkel 17 is engineer and surveyor involved in this subdivision 18 plat -- will and intends to comply with the Subdivision 19 Regulations of the county of Kerr, and also, of course, 20 particular state law that relates to the subdivision 21 property. The -- also, I can assure the Court that it is 22 our intent that, as far as this -- the Court has no 23 jurisdiction over this, but the existing restrictions, as 24 provided for, will be complied with as they're set out in 25 the restrictions with respect to the annexation of 84 1 additional property. And that's all we're talking about. 2 The only other point I wanted to make, I 3 just -- I think the Court -- although, again, this is not 4 something that the Court has any jurisdiction over, the -- 5 the roads that are in Twin Springs Ranch -- that's the 6 existing subdivision that's right here right now -- in the 7 covenant of conditions -- covenants of conditions and 8 restrictions, a declaration that's filed with respect to 9 Twin Springs Ranch that relates to and defines roads, the 10 definition of those roads, if you read the restrictions, 11 relate to the roads that are set out on the plat for Twin 12 Springs Ranch. I can assure this Court that we're not 13 changing, modifying, or altering any roads that are 14 described on the plat. What we're doing are new roads, 15 which have to comply, and we will insure that they comply 16 with this Court's regulations with respect to subdivision 17 roads. If you have any questions; otherwise, I -- I don't 18 have anything. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. Anyone else who'd 20 like to address the Court during this public hearing on the 21 issue of the revision of Lots 18, 19, and 20 of Twin Springs 22 Ranch? If not, we will conclude the public hearing and 23 return to regular Commissioners Court. 24 (The public hearing was concluded at 10:45 a.m., and the regular Commissioners 25 Court meeting was reopened.) 85 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: At this time, we're going to 2 take a break, come back at 11 o'clock. When we come back, 3 first we'll hear from our EMS Coordinator, make a quarterly 4 report, and then we'll take up the regular agenda at that 5 time. 6 (Recess taken from 10:45 a.m. to 11:00 a.m.) 7 - - - - - - - - - - 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: We'll return the meeting to 9 order. Next item we'll take up will be, as we announced, 10 Item Number 12, the EMS/First Response quarterly report. 11 Commissioner Baldwin? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. As per the 13 request, the EMS Coordinator, Kyle Young -- his promise was 14 to come back and give us quarterly reports, and he's kind 15 enough to do that. And, Kyle, please come forward and give 16 us a -- give us a brief report. And, I guess -- as you 17 know, you see the president on TV talking about the new 18 moneys that he is wanting to provide to First Responders 19 throughout the nation. I think it's kind of neat. So, even 20 the most powerful man on earth recognizes the need for First 21 Responders. 22 MR. YOUNG: Right. Good morning. That's 23 interesting that you brought that up. I've got a letter in 24 my office from the President. Right after he took office, 25 he cut funding for the Fire Act, and after September 11th, 86 1 he's doubled and even tripled the money, so I think he's 2 realized where -- where things need to be. Our police, 3 fire, and EMS are the first on the scene for these things. 4 Your paid people are going to be there, of course, but in 5 Kerr County, you've got a bunch of volunteers that, I 6 guarantee you, if anything happens, they're going to be 7 there. It's your First Responders. We need more of them. 8 There's a couple of zones in the area that are real short of 9 First Responders. We're actively recruiting First 10 Responders. 11 When I came before you around budget time, we 12 had talked about a need for training. I would like for you 13 to keep that in your mind, maybe putting together an EMT 14 class for some of the people who are not certified at the 15 EMT level. A lot of the volunteer firefighters in the area 16 want to be a Kerr County First Responder, but they're not 17 certified to the EMT level. I think if we could have a 18 class, there's -- I've got numerous calls of people wanting 19 to have this class. So, if there's any way possible that 20 the County could -- could fund a class and sponsor a class, 21 we've got more than enough instructors in the city and in 22 the county that could put the class on, and then actually 23 teach these people how to be First Responders. 24 We have had meetings since I last talked to 25 you, individually and as a group. We've had some training 87 1 sessions. Training is one of our big priorities where we're 2 lacking. There's a lot of problems in trying to get, 3 logistically, people together all at one time to do 4 training, but we're trying our best to overcome those 5 problems, and -- and we're getting there. One way that 6 we've come up with better communications and better training 7 is, we have a -- a Kerr County First Responder list server 8 on the Internet, where I can send out one list to all the 9 First Responders. It's a lot better way to communicate, 10 where you send out one e-mail, everybody gets it. They can 11 subscribe to the list and learn more about what's going on 12 and keep everybody up to date, and it's worked really well. 13 They're really responding well to that. 14 At our last meeting, several of the First 15 Responders were interested in going and visiting other First 16 Responder organizations and seeing what they're doing, 17 seeing how they can better serve you, and that is probably 18 going to come up here within the next month. Several of us 19 are going to go around and look at some of the other First 20 Responder organizations to see what they're doing that we 21 could be doing better. And, that's the initiative that 22 these people have; they're wanting to do this on their own. 23 They're wanting to really try to do this. They're looking 24 into a lot of the grant funding and becoming a nonprofit 25 organization so that they can apply for funds as a group and 88 1 help with some of the equipment needs that we have. 2 The American Heart Association every year has 3 an AED placement program for First Responders, but it's a 4 matching grant, so you have to pay half and then they -- the 5 American Heart Association will pay half to fund AED's, and 6 that's maybe something that we'll approach you with at 7 budget time, too, if we want to do that. Especially in the 8 far end of the county, AED's would be very helpful in cases 9 of full arrest. These things are life-savers, and they're 10 very technologically advanced, you know, where people are 11 saving lives everywhere with them. I'm also in the process 12 of purchasing some of the equipment that you funded. We do 13 have a couple of First Responders that don't have gear at 14 this time, and we're going to try to get them up and going 15 and responding here within the next month or two. So, 16 that's about all I have. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Very good. Thank you 18 very much. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anyone else have any 20 questions for Kyle? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. Appreciate 22 it. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you very much. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: See you in three 25 months. 89 1 MR. YOUNG: Thank you. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Next item we'll take up is 3 Item Number 6, consider and discuss approval of the final 4 plat for Holcomb Ranch, Precinct 4. Franklin, is this 5 one -- 6 MR. JOHNSTON: I believe this was finally 7 approved and signed off by the City of Ingram, 'cause part 8 of it's in the ETJ. I think it's ready for approval. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What was that last 10 sentence? 11 MR. JOHNSTON: Ready for approval. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move that we approve 13 the final plat for Holcomb Ranch in Precinct 4. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 16 Baldwin, second by Commissioner Williams, that the Court 17 approve the final plat for Holcomb Ranch in Precinct 4. Any 18 questions or comments? If not, all in favor, raise your 19 right hand. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Next item is 24 to consider and discuss setting a public hearing to abandon, 25 discontinue, and vacate Moore Lake Road in Precinct 4. If 90 1 we look in the back packets, we have affidavits from both of 2 the owners of property that are affected by this road, and 3 they're requesting that we abandon, discontinue, and vacate 4 that county road. Franklin, do you have any concerns about 5 this one? 6 MR. JOHNSTON: I talked to David Jackson just 7 a minute ago about somewhere along the -- when we finally do 8 it, we need to add a legal description of the part that 9 we're abandoning to make sure we don't -- we give away what 10 we intend to. And they're planning on doing that, having it 11 surveyed, and the different parts -- give them back to each 12 owner. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Then you're satisfied 14 that we can proceed with that? It's not a "subject to" 15 motion? Or is it a "subject to" motion? 16 MR. JOHNSTON: I don't think that has to be 17 in a public hearing. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, I didn't mean as 19 a public hearing. I mean subject to the -- you receiving 20 the -- 21 MR. JOHNSTON: Right. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- legal description. 23 MR. JOHNSTON: Yeah. David, do you have 24 anything to say? 25 MR. JACKSON: That's absolutely right. We're 91 1 going to get a survey. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The way I understand 4 it -- 5 MR. JACKSON: That particular road comes off 6 of Felix Fisher Road and runs down to the creek. 7 MR. JOHNSTON: Dead-ends in the creek, right. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And we repaired that 9 four or five, ten years ago or something. 10 MR. JOHNSTON: Got a big gully in it. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's all we're 12 talking about, is that little stretch right there. And the 13 Eastlands had access to Camp Mystic, and a couple of other 14 people. 15 MR. JACKSON: Right. Just one of the -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We really want that 17 out of our system, I can tell you. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Make a motion, and 19 I'll second it. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move that we -- oh, 21 no, we're going to set a public hearing here. 22 MR. JACKSON: Right. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What date? 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: March 11th at 10:30. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move that we set a 92 1 public hearing for March 11th at 10:30 to abandon, 2 discontinue, and vacate Moore Lake Road in Precinct 4, Kerr 3 County, Texas. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 6 Baldwin, second by Commissioner Williams, that the Court set 7 a public hearing regarding the abandonment, discontinuance, 8 and vacation of Moore Lake Road in Kerr County, Texas, 9 Precinct 4, said public hearing to be March 11th, Year 2002, 10 at 10:30 a.m. in the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County 11 Courthouse. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question. And I probably 13 should know. Do we need 30 days or two weeks for this one? 14 MR. JACKSON: I think it's 20 days. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Twenty days? 16 MR. JACKSON: That's my -- I mean, the 17 statute says you got to post it for 20 days, I think. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 'Cause, I mean, I 19 just want to make sure we're not 30 days, because we're 20 short a month. 21 MR. JACKSON: I think it works. I did that 22 the other day, and I think you got 20 in there. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other questions? If not, 25 all in favor, raise your right hand. 93 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Next item is 3 Item Number 8, consider the revision of property without 4 platting off of Lehmann and Rim Rock in Precinct 1. 5 Commissioner Baldwin. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes. Mr. Johnston? 7 (Discussion off the record.) 8 MR. JOHNSTON: We were approached to have 9 that road on this little map that you have in your packet, 10 that little dark line there, named -- for 911 to name that 11 road. And it has a lot of lots facing -- facing the road, 12 but that area is not in a subdivision. It's just out there, 13 kind of between the city and between Kerrville South 14 subdivision, kind of a no-man's-land. I guess our question 15 is, can we name that road if it's not properly subdivided? 16 That's what, really, we brought it to the Court for. And, 17 if so, you know, do they need to file a subdivision? It's 18 in the city ETJ also. Does it need to be dealt with by the 19 City? Or -- we're kind of questioning what the procedure 20 might be here in this. Lots are very small. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's my opinion that, 22 being as it's in the ETJ, and these are -- this is not a 23 platted subdivision, and there's -- you can go through here 24 and see some of the values in there, and there's some pretty 25 nice places there. My opinion is that we need to get the 94 1 County Engineer to notify the City, as far as -- you know, 2 get their recommendations on the platting procedures, and 3 notify -- as well the County Attorney. I'd want -- I'd want 4 our County Attorney or a legal adviser, whoever that might 5 be this week, to tell us what is -- what really is the 6 procedure on naming the road. I mean, can we name a road 7 that -- I mean, is it a private road? Is it a public road? 8 Does it run into a subdivision? Does it run into a 9 non-subdivision? I just think that there's some legal 10 things that need to be cleared up before -- before we go too 11 far with it, in my opinion. 12 MR. JOHNSTON: One lot's kind of interesting. 13 The white part of this little map is in the city limits, and 14 the darker part is in the county. The lots right at the 15 boundary line, Blevins and Parker, I think one actually sold 16 the other one part of his lot, which is in the city, to a 17 county lot. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm confused, which is 19 not uncommon around here. I'm hearing two issues. I mean, 20 one issue is a 911 naming a road issue. 21 MR. JOHNSTON: Right. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the other one is what 23 do we do about an unplatted subdivision. Is that my 24 understanding? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, we're hoping 95 1 that this unplatted subdivision -- some of the answers to 2 that will come along with this -- with the road question. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, from a 911 4 standpoint, I don't see what difference it makes, I mean, a 5 named or unnamed road. I don't understand -- it's like, I 6 don't see -- it's like, if it's a private road, or -- I just 7 don't understand the issue there. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, go with me in 9 your mind here. We're not to 911; we're dealing with the 10 County Engineer's office. Should we name that road or not? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But if I want to name -- 12 under 911 guidelines, if Leroy Pressler wants to name his 13 driveway going into his house, with several homes or 14 structures off of it, he can do it, and we don't have any -- 15 I mean, unless we designate it. But I don't see how -- I 16 mean, if someone's living -- I wouldn't know why -- I can't 17 figure out why we wouldn't want every road where people live 18 to be named from an EMS standpoint. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, you know, I see 20 what the question is, clearly. You know, they -- they have 21 come and asked, you know, we need to name this road. Some 22 new purchasers have come in and said, we'd like -- we need 23 an address, so we'd like to name this road here. And then 24 Franklin, as the County Engineer, says -- you know, I'm sure 25 he agrees, as well as I do and you do, that they need to 96 1 name the road, but there may be something wrong here. Let's 2 check and find -- make sure everything is legal and in order 3 before we take any steps. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are we on 2.8 or 2.9? 5 (Laughter.) 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 2.8's talking about a 7 division of property without platting. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: 2.8. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean -- 10 MR. JOHNSTON: Yes. And there's also a road 11 there -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. I'm glad 13 I'm on the same page. 14 MR. JOHNSTON: There's also a road there 15 that's never been named. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think if it's an 17 unplatted subdivision, we need to do whatever we can legally 18 to make them plat it. That's an issue, but I -- and if 19 that's what the agenda item is, I really don't -- 20 MR. JOHNSTON: There are actually houses on 21 this road. I don't know what they've been doing all these 22 years. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think the road-naming is 24 not affected by the issue of platted or unplatted. I mean, 25 if it's a road that's not named, then -- and it meets the 97 1 definition of "road" within the 911 guidelines, then we have 2 the ability to -- 3 MR. JOHNSTON: Name it. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- to name it. If it's a 5 private road, we can do it without a hearing. If it's a 6 public road, we have to have a hearing. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Give it a name. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: On the issue of platting, you 9 know, there are lots of areas in the county that aren't 10 platted. I don't think we can go back and require somebody 11 to plat after the fact, unless they do some further 12 subdivision. Is that correct, Franklin? 13 MR. JOHNSTON: I don't know. This just kind 14 of came to our attention. We -- I don't guess we knew it 15 wasn't platted. We thought it was part of the Kerrville 16 South subdivision, but apparently it's not. I don't know if 17 we can go back and retroactively make them do anything or 18 not. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Depends on when they did 20 it, as well, as to what rules were in effect at the time. 21 You have to look at that. But on the road-naming issue, we 22 can't proceed on that today, because, one, it's not an 23 agenda item, and two, we have to go through the 911 process, 24 filling out the forms and all that stuff, to get a name to 25 it. But, you know, from a subdivision standpoint, look at 98 1 the rules when -- 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Franklin, I, as the 3 County Commissioner of Precinct Number 1, would like for you 4 to inquire with the County Attorney about the -- about the 5 subdivision, please. 6 MR. JOHNSTON: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. And then 8 y'all can name the road anything you want to; I don't care. 9 Couldn't care less. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Baldwin Drive. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not Baldwin. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Are we done with that 13 one? Okay. Let's go on to Item Number 9, consider and 14 discuss duplicate road names presented to Commissioners 15 Court by 911 on January 28, Year 2002. Okay, what progress 16 have we made? I guess -- 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: All mine's done. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: In Precinct 1, there 19 were four roads. There are two that we're still in the 20 process -- I got an answer back from one of them this 21 morning. We're just in that process of renaming it. There 22 was two -- the Canyon Road in Precinct 1, it was decided 23 that it's not a duplicate; there's not another Canyon Road 24 in that area. And Ranchero was mapped incorrectly, so two 25 we can scratch through, and two are still in work. 99 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: As far as Precinct 2 2 is concerned, Truby and I spoke this morning, and we're 3 clear. Camp -- Camp needs to be remapped. The camp map and 4 911 maps don't match, but that's being -- in work, I 5 believe. Right, Truby? 6 MS. HARDIN: Yes. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is in work. Ranchero 8 is incorrect, as you noted a moment ago. And Silver Canyon 9 has been addressed, so okay. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Regarding 3, there's a 11 little bit of an issue regarding the name of -- what's going 12 to happen with Cypress Creek Road, but I think I sent an 13 e-mail back to 911 and Road and Bridge which says -- I think 14 I was pretty clear. I mean, the name "Cypress Creek Loop" 15 stays. The name "Cypress Creek Road" stays. I don't see 16 that it's -- I couldn't see any confusion there. And I -- 17 in addition, 911 had requested we change Cypress Creek Loop 18 to Cypress Bend, I believe, and I talked to EMS or the fire 19 chief in Comfort, and they thought that would be a very big 20 mistake. He thinks those two road names should say Cypress 21 Creek Loop and Cypress Creek Road, Boulevard, whatever the 22 name should be. Lazy Valley will be addressed in the next 23 agenda item. Schladder is not a duplicate. I think that's 24 been addressed with 911 as -- that's one of the roads they 25 had that are still there. It was actually a driveway. 100 1 Silver Canyon is addressed in the next agenda item, and 2 Wilderness is a spelling error on 911's map. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. All right. Let's keep 4 working on them. Let's go, then, to Item Number 10, 5 consider and approve name changes for Kerr County roads, 6 privately maintained, in Precinct 3 and Precinct 1, in 7 accordance with the 911 guidelines. The roads that are 8 under consideration, the existing road name is North River 9 Park, changed to Riven Rock. South River Park and River 10 Park Spur changed to Comfort Valley. South River Park 11 changed to Fisherman Bend. Lazy Valley changed to Faitin 12 Road. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Faltin. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Faltin Road, thank you. 2934 15 changed to Baker Lane. Silver Canyon changed to -- Road 16 changed to Silver Canyon Loop. And Silver Canyon Road 17 changed to Pewter Lane. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And all of these in my 19 precinct are private roads, so we do not need any public 20 hearing or anything. Yours okay? I'll make a motion that 21 we approve the road name changes as submitted. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner Letz, 24 second by Commissioner Baldwin, that the Court approve the 25 name changes for Kerr County privately maintained roads in 101 1 Precinct 3 and Precinct 1 as submitted. Any questions or 2 comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Item Number 5 11, consider and discuss authorizing 911 to finalize 6 duplicate road names and submit the names to the U.S. Postal 7 Service. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd like to pull that 9 until the next meeting, when we -- there may be some in 10 Precinct 4 that I don't -- I mean, we need to get them all 11 done at one time, so put that on the agenda for the next 12 meeting, and hopefully by then we'll resolve the Cypress 13 Creek issue as well. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Will do. Next item is Item 15 Number 13, relating to Sheriff's Department. I thought we'd 16 skip over that till the end. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Ahem. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Oh. Glenn, you woke the 19 Sheriff up. Item Number 13, consider and discuss 20 authorizing Kerr County Sheriff's Department to participate 21 in the 2002 U.S. Department of Justice Bulletproof Vest 22 Partnership Grant program. Sheriff Hierholzer. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: This is the same grant 24 we did last year. Each year we can go out for a bulletproof 25 grant, matching funds. Last year we did approximately 102 1 one-half of the department, and we got bulletproof vests for 2 half. We're trying to get the other half this year. We're 3 replacing the old ones and getting everybody up to date on a 4 little bit better vest. Total price of the grant that we 5 want to go out for -- our total price of the vests is 6 $14,525. That's 28 vests for everybody else. Last year -- 7 we're doing a little bit more than half this year. Last 8 year we did half of the patrol. This year we're trying to 9 also get the warrant officers and the investigators and 10 other half of patrol, so it does add the numbers up a little 11 bit more. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Rusty, I think you've 13 told us before, but remind us again. What is the useful 14 life of a bulletproof protective vest? 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: About three years. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And I didn't ask for any 18 in last year's budget or the year before -- or this year or 19 last year's budget. We were able to get this. What we do, 20 I don't have the funds to match the County portion of that, 21 but if y'all will recall, last year we went out and -- and 22 the Court specifically authorized us accepting donations 23 from the public for this purpose, and at which time we got 24 enough public donations then to supplement the other half of 25 the grant. And that's, again, what I would hope to do this 103 1 year. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: So, today you're just asking 3 for us to approve the application? 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Just to approve the 5 application for us to go out for the grant, to send it off. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Just out of curiosity, do you 7 have a policy that vests are to be worn at all times by 8 officers on duty, or is it up to each individual officer? 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I do have a policy that 10 they are required to wear their vest anytime they're in 11 uniform. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: And that is a policy that you 13 enforce? 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Good. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I wanted to ask a 17 question, Rusty, but I'm still a little bit angry from the 18 last issue here. But if I were not angry, I would ask the 19 question something like this. Do you have the $7,272.50? 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. Do you have any 22 of that left in that fund that you collected from a few 23 years ago? 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, you're -- that 104 1 fund is zeroed out, and -- but you feel comfortable that the 2 public will come along and -- and give you $7,272.50? 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I feel -- yes, I do. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And if they don't, 5 that you're going to be back here asking us for it? Is that 6 what the plan is? 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I didn't do that last 8 year. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, I'm just asking 10 what your plan is. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We were able to find 12 some. What happened last year, and I wouldn't doubt it if 13 it doesn't happen this year, we applied for a certain amount 14 from the Department of Justice for the grant, and they cut 15 that in half, so it ended up -- we only went out for half as 16 much again for the public donations. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Again, I'm too angry 18 to ask that question, so I won't at this time. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Too angry? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess my only concern 21 is -- a little bit, is -- this is just more, I guess, a 22 request. I hope that when you go out for requesting the 23 funds from the community, that you're not -- that it's not 24 done in the light the that Commissioners Court wouldn't fund 25 bulletproof vests. 105 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, it wasn't last year. 2 We didn't -- we didn't say that last year. I would expect 3 the Court would fund portions of those vests if it were 4 needed, but I think we also have a good support for a 5 one-time expense like this every three years. I think I 6 also need to do my part in trying to acquire funds other 7 than just from the general budget. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Because when we go to 9 budgeting, I would cut some of your other expenditures to 10 get this done, you know, and so it's -- this is a high 11 priority to me, and I'm glad you're going to the community 12 to get the funding, but I think we would fund it if we 13 needed to, and -- 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: This is a -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- maybe lose it 16 somewhere else. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: This is probably one of 18 the highest priorities, as far as officer safety goes. We 19 do have current vests for every officer, okay? In fact, I 20 have some officers that would rather wear their own vests 21 that they purchase, because it's a little bit lighter 22 weight, or one of the more expensive ones that they've 23 gotten from somewhere. But I'm trying to get all the vests 24 the same so we up the protection. Last year -- we were at 25 Level 2 vests last year, and the grant will hopefully pay 106 1 for Level 3 vests, which offer a little bit more protection. 2 We do have some private funding already, or grant money, but 3 there are some stipulations on using grant money on top of 4 grant money, which is where you get into that also. But I 5 have no problem in -- in doing it this way. And, don't 6 think that the officers would go without vests. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 10 Williams, second by Commissioner Baldwin, that the Court 11 authorize the Kerr County Sheriff's Department to 12 participate in 2002 U.S. Department of Justice Bulletproof 13 Vest Partnership Grant program. Any other questions or 14 comments? 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: One last thing, 16 Jonathan. If I were to come to y'all and ask you for the 17 money first, and you provided it, then I could not apply for 18 the grant. We have to show a need for it, too. And I think 19 the government can help us provide that. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I knew you were looking 21 after us. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: All in favor, raise your 24 right hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 107 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Item Number 4 14, consider purchase of a new high-band radio for the 5 Animal Control Department to replace the existing one. 6 Mr. Allen. 7 MR. ALLEN: The old radio has burned up, and 8 Advantage has advised me that they can't get the parts for 9 antique radios. They've quoted me a price of $455, and I do 10 have the money in my Capital Outlay budget, from which I 11 saved $1,500 on buying the new truck. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: We're proud of you. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good man. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 17 second by Commissioner Baldwin, that the Court authorize the 18 purchase of a new high-band radio for the Animal Control 19 Department and amend the Capital budget for said department 20 to reflect the purchase of a new high-band radio. Before we 21 vote, I want to ask you, have you talked to Road and Bridge? 22 MR. ALLEN: Have I talked to them? 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes, because this radio is 24 actually part of their system. 25 MR. ALLEN: No, it's not. This is a totally 108 1 different radio. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Totally different, okay. 3 MR. ALLEN: It's a high-band. Theirs is 4 low-band, which we're on their system -- 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 6 MR. ALLEN: -- for our car-to-car. But this 7 is a police radio. See, we can talk to the Sheriff's 8 Department and the Police Department. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Because they'd 10 expressed to me a concern about making sure that this didn't 11 have -- 12 MR. ALLEN: No, it doesn't have -- doesn't 13 interfere with them at all. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Good. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think, since it's a 16 police radio and he saved so much money on his truck, he 17 could buy two or three of them and give them to us, too. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Doesn't he have a bad guy to 19 go chase somewhere? 20 (Laughter.) 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You mean a million 22 dollars won't go around? 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any further questions about 24 the Animal Control item? If not, all in favor, raise your 25 right hand. 109 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Thank you, 5 Marc. Item 15, consider and discuss electrical service to 6 Flat Rock Lake Park. This is a bring-back from the last 7 meeting, regarding the chili cook-off out there. Glenn? 8 Oh, Mr. Beuchler, you're here today. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This should be a Glenn 10 Holekamp deal, though, I think. He's trying to hide. 11 MR. HOLEKAMP: I wasn't hiding. Per the 12 request to Commissioners Court at the last meeting, you 13 indicated that you wanted some prices on electrical service 14 to Flat Rock Park. You have two different -- should be two 15 different memos or proposals in your packet. The first one 16 is from KPUB, which is service -- if you're familiar with 17 the area there, it runs parallel -- or it runs horizontal to 18 the -- from where the W.W. Fireworks stand is, is where 19 they're going to -- to catch the electrical there on 20 Highway -- on Memorial. And it will go to the property line 21 at the park, which is a -- up on the top up there by the 22 guardrail. At that point, there will be a transformer 23 placed. They -- they indicated that that would be the least 24 expensive route to go. And, from there, we would be 25 required to run our electrical to wherever we chose, which 110 1 was the second bid, which was the $2,319 Guadalupe Electric 2 gave, which would run apparently parallel to the Riverside 3 to the site of the proposed restrooms. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: From the KPUB 5 transformer? 6 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. That is service to 7 that proposed site of the restrooms, from the service that 8 KPUB proposed. So, there's approximately $5,000. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Then how do we get it 10 down to the park where Mr. Buechler needs it? 11 MR. HOLEKAMP: That could be done with 12 temporary service. It would have to be, anyway, because the 13 floodplain -- 'cause you're down in a -- this is all on the 14 top. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Glenn, in the letter 16 here from Guadalupe Electric, it says -- it gives the price, 17 and there will be a $300 discount if you can provide the 18 270-foot trenching and cover-up. 19 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are you planning on 21 doing the 270-foot trenching and covering up? 22 MR. HOLEKAMP: Well, no, I had not -- I had 23 not done any -- any estimates on trenching or anything, no, 24 sir. I just -- just gave you the proposals as submitted. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I understand 111 1 that. Well, I just -- I can't imagine us being in the 2 trenching business, to be honest with you. 3 MR. HOLEKAMP: No, sir, we're not. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Just wanted to 5 make sure. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: A couple of comments and 7 questions. One, when you talked to KPUB, I know there's 8 a -- you asked them, as I understand, the least expensive 9 way to get power over there, but if they were to set another 10 pole and move the transformer right to the restroom, I know 11 it would be another pole, but I think that additional pole 12 would be probably less than Guadalupe Electric's charging 13 for an underground service. 14 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. The problem is, is 15 that they would -- they're talking about two more dead men, 16 is what KPUB indicated that they would have to place, and it 17 still would be the service coming down from the pole, is 18 where your main expense is. It's not necessarily in the 19 underground line. Now, I could -- I could get them to price 20 it both ways. I mean, that's really -- when I talked to 21 Mr. Cowan, the engineer, he indicated to me that that would 22 probably be the best bet. That way the County could -- if 23 they do electrical, he could go either way at some point in 24 time, instead of being -- moving to the east, then you would 25 not be able to go to the west with your service. 112 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where is the power coming 2 from right now? 3 MR. HOLEKAMP: From Highway 27, which is -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, across the Ag 5 Barn property? Or -- 6 MR. HOLEKAMP: No, it's right on the edge of 7 the County property, between there and the Highlander -- the 8 old V.F.W. hall. It's right there along the County property 9 line. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Closer to Riverside 11 Drive than 27? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So the -- 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Question mark. 14 MR. HOLEKAMP: Well, it's -- it's on the 15 furthest west property line of Kerr County. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Closer to 27 or 17 closer to Riverside Drive? 18 MR. HOLEKAMP: It's -- well, it runs across 19 it. I mean, from 27 to Riverside, the line does. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 21 MR. HOLEKAMP: They're catching the 22 electricity on 27, there on Memorial. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 24 MR. HOLEKAMP: And taking it across. The 25 reason for that, instead of taking it from the other side, 113 1 is the amount of trees that would have to be removed, and 2 KPUB really said, you really don't want to get in a position 3 of having to take all your pretty trees out. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. If it's coming 5 off of our -- in the vicinity of our westernmost property 6 line -- 7 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- then where will it 9 come into the park? Or -- 10 MR. HOLEKAMP: There at Riverside, at the 11 very top. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Near the entrance to 13 Flat Rock Lake Park? 14 MR. HOLEKAMP: No. No, it's about halfway 15 down, about in the middle of Flat Rock, is where that will 16 run. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's closer -- it comes 18 in closer to where the boat ramp is. I mean -- 19 MR. HOLEKAMP: Well, it's about middle of 20 the -- well, the original park. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Between the restroom 22 and -- about midway between the restroom -- proposed 23 restroom location and the boat ramp. 24 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. Yes, sir, about 25 halfway. 114 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where is the proposed 2 restroom going to be positioned? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's -- 4 MR. HOLEKAMP: Well -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you know where the 6 rodeo arena is? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Outside rodeo arena, just 9 about across -- isn't it pretty close to that? 10 MR. HOLEKAMP: It's -- yeah, it's -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Little bit further to the 12 west. 13 MR. HOLEKAMP: It's across, and then it will 14 be to the west approximately 100 feet. There's a little 15 turn-in right there, looks like a little parking -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Parking area already made 17 right there. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 19 MR. HOLEKAMP: By a big live oak tree. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: On the south side of 21 Riverside Drive? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 23 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Nice little place to 25 pull off there and throw trash out of your car. 115 1 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yeah. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, okay, we get it 3 to that point, right? And the restroom will ultimately be 4 there at some point in time. 5 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What are you going to 7 do, then, to take it down to Mr. Beuchler, wherever he is? 8 Take it overhead, or take it -- 9 MR. HOLEKAMP: That is going to have -- 10 whatever they do is going to have to be temporary, because 11 that's floodplain down there. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what I'm 13 getting at. It's going to be temporary, going to -- if we 14 need another pole to string a line -- 15 MR. HOLEKAMP: No, no, no. Wait a minute. I 16 don't think -- this is my personal opinion, is I don't think 17 Kerr County really should be placing the poles down there, 18 because the water comes up in there all the time. I mean, 19 all the time. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: See, what -- 21 Mr. Beuchler is wanting to talk now. He's wanting to -- I 22 think he has a plan of some sort. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He has a pole. He 24 knows where to get a pole. 25 (Laughter.) 116 1 MR. BEUCHLER: It was my understanding that 2 y'all was going to bring the electricity to the -- to the 3 restroom site, and then it was our responsibility to go from 4 there down to where we're going to use it. I have a couple 5 of companies that will do that for me, a temporary site, a 6 temporary wiring. Also, Mr. Fritz with Mini-Mart, he also 7 indicated that he would donate poles and lights, if y'all 8 would like to have a couple of them down there in the park. 9 That would be used -- it's going to be disconnected when 10 it's not in use, but when somebody wants to use it, they're 11 mercury vapor lights. If you want to turn them on, you can 12 turn them on. If you don't, cut the power off. But he 13 suggested he would put the poles up and the lights free of 14 charge if it was -- if the Court approved it. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I know Junior 16 has some poles available. They're out there on his lot on 17 the corner of the Loop and 27. He's offered to give me some 18 for Center Point Park, and I know they're there. He wants 19 to get rid of them. 20 MR. BEUCHLER: But this is -- this is not -- 21 I was at a meeting the other night where he was at. I was 22 telling him about this, and he offered that. That's -- if 23 that doesn't go with y'all, we still have these people 24 that's going to take our temporary service from y'all's pole 25 down the hill to where we have our tent and our bandstand, 117 1 so that -- I mean, that's -- but that's just a temporary 2 deal. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The other issue is paying 4 for this. There is currently $19,075.84 left from the 5 L.C.R.A. grant, which is not -- I just had Mindy go run that 6 number for me, $19,075.84. If we took $5,000 out for the 7 electrical, I do not believe that will leave enough money 8 for the restrooms. You know, and I'm bringing it up 'cause 9 I don't know -- I don't think you can have a restroom 10 without electricity. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Shouldn't. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, I mean, I don't know 13 how we resolve that at some point. I would be interested to 14 see if -- you know, if KPUB could get it there -- add 15 another pole to cut out Guadalupe Electric. It doesn't make 16 any difference to me. To me, it would be no worse from the 17 County's standpoint to have the transformer right at the 18 restroom. There's a couple of guy wires you're going to 19 need there. I really don't know -- well, you know, their 20 engineers decide what they need. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How much do you think 22 that restroom's going to cost? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Looking at -- it was 24 going to be $10,000 or $15,000, but the other thing is I'm 25 looking at getting a block bid, as opposed to tilt wall, and 118 1 maybe if we can -- you know, there may be some ways that we 2 can get -- through trustees or something doing some work and 3 stuff like that, lower that cost some on the block work. I 4 don't know if you have a trustee that can do block work or 5 not, but it is an issue. And I'm not sure that -- not 6 saying we shouldn't do it, and I think it would qualify 7 under the L.C.R.A. grant either way. I mean, to spend the 8 money on electricity, you kind of need both of them over 9 there, but it is going to possibly leave a little bit of 10 shortfall on the restroom. And -- and there's no -- and I 11 don't know how much funding we have in the Parks line item. 12 There is a -- we could deplete that. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I've got $2,500 in 14 mine, and I probably will spend somewhere in the vicinity of 15 half of it. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is your park. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, you gave it to 18 me? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's in your precinct. I 20 just, for some reason -- 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I think you're 22 right about can we get the electric service there a little 23 less expensively. If we can, I think we should figure out a 24 way to do it. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And Commissioner 119 1 Baldwin's comments about the ditching, their ditching price 2 is very good. I mean, you know, I don't think you'll find 3 anyone to do that for $300, and -- you know, ditch, lay 4 conduit, and cover it up. So, I mean, that -- you know, I'm 5 not saying the Guadalupe Electric price is all that out of 6 line. I don't think -- their price seems pretty reasonable 7 to me. It's just if we can get the transformer closer, we 8 could cut some of their cost a little bit maybe, 'cause 9 theirs would be underground cable, 270 feet. That's a 10 pretty long run for underground cable, and it's pretty 11 heavy. It's a high copper line, and copper's a lot more 12 expensive than overhead. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have another 14 question; related, though. If we get it, with KPUB and 15 everybody else, to the point where the restroom facilities 16 are going to be positioned, right, and if we accept Junior 17 Fritz' offer for a pole to be planted somewhere in the 18 vicinity of where Karl's going to have the stage, that's 19 going to be overhead, and who's going to pay that cost to 20 bring that up overhead? How is that going to get from the 21 restroom position to the staging position? 22 MR. BEUCHLER: I'll have to get one of those 23 companies that had offered that other run to commit to that, 24 which I haven't yet, because I didn't know that that's the 25 way we was going to go. That -- this Junior thing come up 120 1 just the other night, and I had already talked to these two 2 electric companies that was going to do it temporarily. So, 3 we would have to go -- I guess, at this stage of the game, 4 being as I'm working on a time frame here, that -- that I 5 need to go ahead and go with the temporary guys that I've 6 already -- it's already been committed, and let this Junior 7 Fritz thing -- maybe next time, do it his way. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, 'cause I'd want 9 to look -- I'd want to know what kind of poles you're 10 talking about. Will the -- will water bring them down? 11 Will they just lay down? 12 MR. BEUCHLER: This is going to be a 13 temporary, you know, and we'd better go to that. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They're 15 telephone-type poles. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: What I'm hearing is that we'd 17 like Glenn to talk to KPUB again and see if -- follow 18 Jonathan's suggestion, and get the transformer closer to the 19 restroom site. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The other option is, is 21 there any way we can come off of the Ag Barn or rodeo 22 arena -- off our current power, and just run an overhead, 23 so-to-speak, private line off of one of our existing meters? 24 I mean, we're not talking -- from the restroom standpoint, I 25 think that we don't need much power for a restroom, just a 121 1 little. I don't know if we can get enough amperage for what 2 is needed for the chili cook-off, but -- and I just -- I 3 just don't know, really, where we have power over on the 4 other side of the road. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A lot would depend -- 6 to answer that question, a lot would depend on how much he's 7 going to use down there at the entertainment site. 8 MR. BEUCHLER: We wouldn't need but a 30-amp 9 breaker, or not even 30-amp. Probably 20 amps. Just -- 10 it's just for P.A. system and a microphone and lights, just 11 some lights at the tent. That's it. It's not very much. 12 No R.V. hookups, no nothing. Just -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: When's your -- when is 14 this? 15 MR. BEUCHLER: March 30th. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, it's March 30th? 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Jonathan, as far as your 18 restroom stuff goes, as long as they have somebody that can 19 design the buildings themselves, I'm sure we could have some 20 trustees and other inmate help that could actually build 21 that type of cinder-block restrooms, if that's what you're 22 talking about. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll get with you on 24 that, Rusty, 'cause that would be a big help, probably cut 25 the costs quite a bit. 122 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Your $19,000 left in 2 your grant money, it seems to me that the priority would be 3 the restrooms, and then bring electricity to it. So, if 4 there -- that's my opinion. I would be hesitant about 5 spending it on electricity and then trying to figure out how 6 to build the restrooms. I'd go ahead and build the 7 restrooms and then try to figure out how to get the 8 electricity, is the way I would do it. I think it would be 9 kind of neat to -- or interesting to find out if you can 10 come off of the rodeo arena, come off the Ag Barn with some 11 electricity across there. 12 MR. BEUCHLER: Too far. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It just is a 14 temporary, one-week deal. 15 MR. BEUCHLER: That's too far down the road. 16 That's a quarter of a mile. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're talking about 19 the outdoor arena, aren't you? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The outdoor arena is 22 positioned pretty well straight in line with the proposed 23 restroom site, I believe. 24 MR. HOLEKAMP: Well, this will be -- 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're not talking 123 1 about the big arena, Karl. We're talking about the outdoor 2 arena. 3 MR. HOLEKAMP: Whatever we do -- excuse me, I 4 didn't mean to overrun. One of the things is -- that we'll 5 have to do is, one of the heighth requirements that we have 6 to go over the top of River Road -- Riverside, I should say, 7 there's going to be some poles that are going to have to be 8 set. Some trees are going to have to be cut to make it 9 through that. 10 MR. BEUCHLER: Lots of trees through there. 11 MR. HOLEKAMP: That was the concerns that 12 KPUB had when I asked them about running from the old arena. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think we need to look at 14 this as a permanent thing, not a temporary fix for 15 Mr. Beuchler's situation, although that's driving us to get 16 it done. Because, you know -- 17 MR. BEUCHLER: The power coming to the 18 restrooms of y'all's will be permanent. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: The public restrooms down in 20 the park are going to have to have lights. You cannot have 21 public restrooms in the dark; too many things that you don't 22 want to contemplate. So, this is -- this really relates to 23 the restrooms, so I think we want to do it permanently and 24 do it once. The other thing is, we need to be conscious of 25 Karl's timetable so we can try to accommodate him the best 124 1 we can. I don't know how long it will take him to do 2 whatever we're talking about doing. 3 MR. HOLEKAMP: If we do not have to involve 4 KPUB in this -- in this change, it can be done probably a 5 lot faster. But, there again, there's some serious tree 6 trimming that's going to have to be done, and poles that 7 have to be set and that sort of thing, so -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One of the poles -- I 9 mean, if we did some sort of a temporary fix, which -- and I 10 know it's certainly not the long-term solution, but we're 11 going to have to set -- I think Guadalupe has a 16-foot pole 12 in here. That's our meter pole. 13 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yeah. That's -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: With -- you know, so we 15 need a pole there, so it wouldn't be wasted. We might need 16 to get a little bit taller one to start with. I don't know 17 how much more power there is. I know we have power for 18 lights there, so -- but the electric cost may be more to try 19 to patch it -- patch into that than to, you know, do what 20 we're doing. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's the total 22 again, Jon, that you've got? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: $19,000. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: $19,000. This 25 project, as outlined, is just a tad under $5,000? 125 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. I'm not saying we 2 would run out of money. I'm just saying it's going to be 3 real close. And I -- you know, and I kind of look at it as 4 the chicken and the egg. You can't have restrooms without 5 lights, either. I mean, you could do it physically, but 6 from a security and a liability standpoint, we don't want to 7 do it at all. And I also -- I was thinking, just to sort 8 of -- before I forget something else, if Junior Fritz wants 9 to donate some mercury vapor lights, those would be great on 10 the meter pole right next to the restrooms. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Absolutely. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Light up that whole area. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And his offer does 14 include mercury vapor lights? 15 MR. BEUCHLER: That's what he told me. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what he told 17 you. Along with the pole. 18 MR. BEUCHLER: But, you know, that wasn't -- 19 that wasn't up there by the restrooms, but that don't mean I 20 can't talk to him to see if I can't get him to do that. 21 This was down there where we was going to have our tent. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think you ought to 23 talk to them about putting some mercury vapor lights on that 24 pole near the restrooms. 25 MR. BEUCHLER: Why couldn't we even furnish 126 1 the pole? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The meter? 3 MR. BEUCHLER: The meter. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That would save a fair 5 amount of money off Guadalupe's. But if we put a light pole 6 there, and then we do talk to him in the future about 7 another pole in the park -- I think, as Commissioner Baldwin 8 said, we need to find out where these poles are going before 9 we just arbitrarily put poles up, but that one would be a -- 10 you know, if Junior's willing to donate a pole up near the 11 restroom with a light on it, if we use that for a meter pole 12 also, we could save on that expense. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Where do you want to go? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now what? Still got 15 to make a decision. What's the question? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My preference would be, 17 if the timing would allow for this, is to talk to KPUB and 18 see if they put the transformer closer, how much more that's 19 going to cost. 'Cause that offset of the underground 20 line -- I mean, it may be cheaper for us to bring the power 21 to the restroom, which I think is really better to have the 22 transformer right at the restroom, because if we have to do 23 anything on the road out there, you know, we -- it's just 24 right there. Plus, that's a -- ditching on that slope, and 25 it's a narrow -- I mean, where the cable's going to have to 127 1 go underground down on that slope, kind of the guardrail, 2 which you just have to get -- it's just lots of issues 3 there. So, I'd rather get the power to the restroom. So 4 I'd like to see that come back, and then also, we can visit 5 with Mr. Fritz and see if he's willing to donate a meter 6 pole. We can put a light on it at the restroom, and bring 7 it back on our next agenda and decide at that point -- and 8 hopefully by then, we can get a better idea of cost of the 9 restrooms for the materials. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, we're saying to 11 this man here, though, you will have electricity to the 12 restrooms, and then you provide it from that point on. Is 13 that -- we are going to get you electricity to the restrooms 14 area? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, I think we need to 16 do that anyway, so might as well do it now. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree with that. 18 And I think, however, in coming back, because time is of the 19 essence here, once we determine what Karl's needs are, I 20 think we need to have a commitment from KPUB and Guadalupe 21 Electric that, immediately upon Court approval, they'll 22 start work, boom. Give them a start date. 23 MR. HOLEKAMP: KPUB won't do that. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why not? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Because -- 128 1 MR. HOLEKAMP: Because theirs is scheduled. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think you could 3 work the schedule between now and then so that they can give 4 you a commitment to start as soon as they get the final 5 approval. 6 MR. BEUCHLER: I might be able to help with 7 that a little bit. I know somebody there that might help us 8 get that done. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We do too. I think 10 we're talking about the same fellow, probably. I'm just 11 saying try it, Glenn. 12 MR. HOLEKAMP: Okay. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Or set a budget amount 14 you can spend on getting it there; go ahead and approve it. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Say that again? 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Set a budget amount that 17 Glenn can go ahead and -- that Glenn can get to go ahead and 18 put it there. That may work better with KPUB. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We could go -- you know, 20 it's kind of hard when you don't know the amount for -- 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It could be a "not to 22 exceed" amount based on number of -- combined numbers of 23 today. Hopefully, we can bring it in less. 24 MR. HOLEKAMP: I'd use it less. Give me 25 less. 129 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Give him $4,000 -- 2 MR. HOLEKAMP: Give me four-two, four-three; 3 I can get it. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Do I hear a motion? 6 MR. HOLEKAMP: That way I can go ahead. 7 'Cause I guarantee, KPUB -- that was one of the things they 8 indicated to me very, very plainly, is don't -- don't come 9 in here and say, "I need it tomorrow." They were very, very 10 plain about that, 'cause of the way the construction crews 11 work. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 13 MR. HOLEKAMP: So -- but, I mean, I'll do 14 whatever y'all -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion to 16 authorize expenditure of up to $4,000 to get electricity to 17 the proposed location for restroom facilities -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- at Flat Rock Park. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner Letz, 21 second by Commissioner Baldwin, that the Court approve the 22 expenditure not to exceed $4,000 to provide electrical 23 service to Flat Rock Lake Park. Any other questions or 24 comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 130 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you, Karl. 2 MR. HOLEKAMP: Thank y'all. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Next item, consider and 4 discuss approving the publication of the new official 2001 5 precinct map in newspapers on February 27, Year 2002, et 6 cetera, et cetera. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Won't take but 8 a minute of your time. That's it. It's big, and I've 9 spoken with both newspapers about the publication of the 10 map. Both have agreed to do so. However -- and here's 11 where the little problem comes in -- it is so big that if 12 you reduce it down to fit, as we originally thought, this 13 way on one side of the page, you might as well not do it, 14 because you're making it so small people can't understand. 15 Both newspaper publishers have agreed to give us what would 16 be the equivalent of four pages of newsprint, and we will 17 split the map, take it down to 90 percent. We'll split the 18 map, and half of it from here on will be on one side, with 19 the appropriate legends and legend box here. The other half 20 will be on the other side, with appropriate legend boxes in 21 this area right here. Okay. 'Cause it's got to come down 22 to here. And if both do it, that's zero cost to 23 Commissioners Court and Kerr County, and it will be 24 published on the 27th day of February, in plenty of time for 25 people to orient themselves for the voting on March 12. We 131 1 don't need to do it prior to early voting, 'cause early 2 voting county-wide is at Zion Lutheran Church and will be 3 advertised as such. So, with that explanation, I would ask 4 the Court to approve the publication of the new 2001 5 precinct map in the local newspapers on February 27th, as 6 prepared by KCAD. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll second that 8 motion. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 10 Williams, second by Commissioner Baldwin, that the Court 11 authorize publication of the new 2001 Kerr County precinct 12 map in the local newspapers on February 27, Year 2002. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Commissioner, you had 14 the newspaper laying out here. Was -- did you have two 15 pages -- I mean, they're kind of goofy about all this column 16 talk and that all that, but did you have two pages laid out 17 here? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, I had -- no, 19 actually four. In the vernacular of newspapers, it's called 20 a double-truck. You're going to get two pages here and two 21 pages here. You're going to get four pages. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What is that that I'm 23 looking at right there? Is it two pages? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Two pages. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, twice this, then. 132 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're going to 2 actually use four pages, a map on both sides. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That is fantastic. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In both newspapers on 5 the same day. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That is fantastic, 7 great. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other questions or 9 comments? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just one other 11 comment. This legend box will go away, and we'll rework the 12 legends with the -- with the directional reference that I 13 asked you to provide, and half will be here and the other 14 part will be right here. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: When do you need our 16 directional reference? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I just got 18 Commissioner Letz', so I need them A.S.A.P. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 20 (Discussion off the record.) 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm going to give you 22 mine before -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I need them both. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. I'll give you 25 mine right now. 133 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other questions or 2 comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: One remaining bit of 7 business. Names and addresses of the members of the salary 8 commission, if you could turn those in to me. My nominee is 9 going to be Lindsay Duff. Commissioner Griffin gave me his; 10 it's going to be Charles F. Browning from out in Hunt. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I got mine right 12 here. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mine is Mr. Bill 14 Tennant of Connally Drive. That will be Northwest Hills. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mine is Mr. Granger 16 MacDonald, Fall Creek Road. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mine has not accepted, so 18 I'll give it to you later. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: What I'd like to do is send 20 out a letter this week offering to expedite the first 21 meeting with Tommy, and just turn it over to them. Okay. 22 Anything else? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that's it. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: We're adjourned. 25 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 12:03 p.m.) - - - - - - - - - - 134 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 5 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 6 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 7 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 15th day of February, 8 2002. 9 10 11 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 12 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 13 Certified Shorthand Reporter 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25