1 2 3 4 5 6 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 7 Workshop 8 Monday, June 17, 2002 9 1:00 p.m. 10 Sheriff's Department Training Room 11 Kerr County Law Enforcement Center 12 400 Clearwater Paseo 13 Kerrville, Texas 14 15 16 Sheriff's Department Long-Range Plan 17 18 19 20 21 22 PRESENT: FREDERICK L. HENNEKE, Kerr County Judge 23 H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 24 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 ABSENT: LARRY GRIFFIN, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 On Monday, June 17, 2002, at 1:00 p.m., a workshop of the 2 Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in the Sheriff's 3 Department Training Room, Kerr County Law Enforcement Center, 4 400 Clearwater Paseo, Kerrville, Texas, and the following 5 proceedings were had in open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's 1 o'clock p.m. in the 8 afternoon of Monday, June 17th, Year 2002. We'll call to 9 order this workshop of the Kerr County Commissioners Court. 10 Let the record reflect that all Commissioners and County 11 Judge are present except for Commissioner Griffin, who is 12 out of the country at this time. First order of business is 13 going to be to recess the workshop for purposes of having a 14 tour of the facility led by Sheriff Hierholzer. Following 15 the tour, we'll come back and reconvene the Commissioners 16 Court workshop and discuss the Sheriff's Long-Range -- 17 Sheriff's Department Long-Range Plan. So, let's go on a 18 tour. 19 (Sheriff Hierholzer conducted the tour.) 20 - - - - - - - - - - 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's now 2:15 on Tuesday 22 afternoon, June 17th, and we will reconvene this workshop of 23 the Kerr County Commissioners Court, the topic being the 24 Kerr County Sheriff's Department Long-Range Plan. Having 25 completed the tour of the facility, Commissioners are now 6-17-02 WK 3 1 prepared to conduct a workshop with regard to the plan. 2 Sheriff, anything you want to say? 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Of course, personnel's 4 the biggest issue back there, and I think one of the major 5 areas in personnel is that control room. You can kind of 6 see that you got about three different phones that ring, 7 trying to monitor -- answer those. One of the those 8 phones -- I didn't explain -- is actually the call button 9 from inside the cellblock. Any inmate that pushes a button 10 inside their cellblock that needs something or whatever, it 11 rings on the phone in that control room, and the phones 12 answer, okay? We push that button to go in; it rings on 13 that same phone. Outside at the sallyport, an officer 14 driving up pushes that same button out there to get into the 15 sallyport. It rings on that same phone. Then you have 16 another phone that controls all the incoming phone calls for 17 it. All that's run through that control room. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So he can't differentiate 19 between an inmate versus -- 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Not until when he -- 21 after he answers the phone, it will say on there "Code 135," 22 and he can look at the list real quick in front of him and 23 see where 135 is; whether it's the sallyport, whether it's 24 this one here, or whether it's inside a cellblock. Okay? 25 But that's a constant ringing deal all the time. You got 6-17-02 WK 4 1 120 inmates today or whatever, so they're constantly doing 2 it. Regular phone calls, you got that going on all the 3 time. Trying to observe all the monitors for the cameras is 4 a constant deal, and then opening the doors for the -- for 5 the jailers and monitoring the hand-held radios that they're 6 all covering. Five people per shift right now, so you can 7 take one; he's stuck in there, he can't leave. You got 8 four. And if you end up with what we have now, booking 9 going on, you got two tied up with that, okay? So now you 10 got two on the floor to run any of the needs down or 11 anything else. If you got one getting ready to be released 12 or whatever, you've got them tied up there. If you got an 13 attorney visit coming in, you got a jailer tied up with the 14 attorney and the inmate on that visit, or if it's a regular 15 visitation day, you got a jailer tied up over there. If 16 it's a court day, like it will be shortly -- I think this 17 afternoon you got 30 other inmates you're trying to get out 18 and get ready for court -- you got jailers tied up there. 19 So that's where you really have a problem. 20 But one of the biggest things that -- that is 21 really kind of dangerous is only having one person in that 22 control room, 'cause it's just way too much for one person 23 to handle. But if you want to add one person in there, 24 you're talking five people, 24 hours a day, okay? That's 25 five additional personnel to cover that one extra person in 6-17-02 WK 5 1 that control room for one 24-hour person. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Rusty, what does the 3 State require as the ratio, jailer per inmates? Is it 4 one-to -- 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: 1-to-48. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Forty-eight. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. But what that is 8 supposed to be is 1-to-48 of direct supervision. That's 9 supposed to be your floor jailer walking around taking care 10 of the floor, okay? Looking in on the -- doing all the 11 welfare checks and initialing that constantly. They're done 12 every 15 minutes, and doing that. So, if you take that 13 1-to-48, you average that, that would be four people on the 14 floor with what we normally work right now constantly. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You don't count the 16 person that's in the -- 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You can't count the one 18 in the control room. You're not supposed to count your 19 booking people or your special events people, your 20 visitation people, rec yard people, church services, 21 attorney visits, or any of that kind of stuff. You're not 22 supposed to count -- it's supposed to be 1-to-48 of jailers 23 doing nothing but walking the floors. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's lay aside the 25 fact that we're probably shorthanded in that area, but do we 6-17-02 WK 6 1 fit that? 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: By what they mandate us 3 to do, yes. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes? 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I know that the Court 7 has always budgeted that amount for a full load. But -- 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Because the Jail 9 Commission won't come in and say how you have to -- to have 10 those people. They have in their deal that it should be 11 floor people. Should be. That's one of the "shoulds," and 12 not "must be." 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: When we were looking at the 14 control room, you said it really needed to be kind of 15 rewired so that you had better control of the television 16 monitoring, but I don't remember that being in -- 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. What our deal -- 18 and I've got part of it in this year's budget plans, is just 19 to add more monitors in there, and that's a budget process 20 where monitors cost us about 300 bucks apiece. And I've 21 asked that in Capital Outlay in this year's budget to add up 22 to 8 to 12 more monitors in that room so that we can 23 separate those cameras more, so if they push the button and 24 want to continue to watch just the sallyport -- say we got a 25 produce delivery or an inmate coming in -- they don't cut 6-17-02 WK 7 1 off from watching 8 to 12 other cameras, which is what 2 happens now. So, the switching part in the control room 3 isn't my concern. That doesn't cover it. We just need to 4 add more monitors and then figure out how to manage them, 5 something we can do. My main concern in there is just 6 personnel-wise, where you can put two people in there, 7 'cause it's way too hectic for one, especially on a court 8 morning or visitation days. There's no way they can control 9 everything; there's too much going on. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: If -- if the additional 11 positions were authorized, could you fill them? 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: And not have any trouble 14 finding people to -- 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. In fact, I hired 16 two. I got one opening as of today in the jail, and that's 17 it. And we're getting a lot better applications, in my 18 opinion. We're getting some qualified people now, some that 19 are already certified jailers. And we've started -- you saw 20 it in the courtroom. I've started a mandatory eight hours a 21 month training for every employee in the entire department, 22 whether deputy, jailers, clerks; it doesn't matter. That's 23 always been one of our biggest problems, is training them. 24 People don't do it consistently. Then they get frustrated 25 and we lose them. 6-17-02 WK 8 1 And then, you know, I got those -- we got one 2 of those telephone hearings tomorrow on an unemployment from 3 a jailer that quit to accept another job, which his 4 resignation referred to, but he filed for unemployment. And 5 his accusation in unemployment was having to work in too 6 dangerous of an atmosphere with not enough employees, not 7 enough jailers. And that's his accusation; it's too 8 dangerous. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Probably true, but if 10 we're complying with the state law -- 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's -- yeah. And 12 that's what I'm talking about. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But it's probably 14 true. I -- I'll agree with you on that. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: This jail is really not 16 designed bad. I mean, we can control any of the violent 17 stuff that goes on, but there does need to be more employees 18 in a serious manner -- you know, we need people that -- 19 that -- 'cause you can see how many are coming in for 20 booking this morning -- just today. That's a constant. You 21 never -- you never any more end up with a time that they're 22 not booking somebody or releasing somebody, and that 23 normally takes a couple people to do that, because you got 24 to get property, you got to get all the computer paperwork 25 done. So, that's two. I mean, we're running five people 6-17-02 WK 9 1 per shift, which meets the state requirements. You got one 2 in the control room, two doing booking; that's three. You 3 got two people taking care of 120 inmates, and that's it. 4 And that's hoping you don't have visitation or anything else 5 going. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is it more important to 7 get more floor jailers, or more -- 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: More jailers and control 9 room both, 'cause we don't keep one person in the control 10 room all the time. They swap out. It gets too -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They all do that? 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They're all trained to 13 do everything. That's one of the big -- one of our big 14 deals. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What did you just turn 16 to? 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: New jail. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What page? 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Page 7. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: You've also got in your 21 budget the money for the software to use the copier for 22 scanning, right? 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The -- the copier -- no, 24 we've got to buy the -- and Shaun and them were working on 25 that. The copier can be turned into a scanner to where we 6-17-02 WK 10 1 wouldn't have to ask for the $16,000 scanner, okay? But 2 it's the software part of that that would have to be added 3 into that. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: You've got $4,000 in the 5 budget, I think, for that software. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I've added all that in, 7 yeah, and asked -- but there's a couple of programs back 8 there, like what you saw -- there's one program; it's called 9 inmate tracking. I don't know if we could ever get it in 10 this year's budget or anything else, but the thing about it 11 is, a whole lot of our stuff is written documentation. You 12 saw the welfare checks that they've got to actually, you 13 know, initial and do all that kind of stuff with. Anytime 14 anybody goes out to the rec yard, there's a report written 15 on who all's gone out and what time they go out, what time 16 they come back in. Any movement inside the jail is -- is 17 written and documented, and that takes a lot of the time. 18 In the Software Group's inmate tracking program, it uses a 19 bar code where each inmate brought into the facility is 20 printed a wristband with a bar code on it. There are two 21 hand-held scanners that are cordless scanners, and what you 22 do is, like, if it's a welfare check, you tape the bar code 23 onto the cell, and you can walk by and just scan it, and it 24 automatically scans that inmate's name and the time and who 25 the officer was checking. 6-17-02 WK 11 1 If you've got rec yards, you're running a 2 bunch of them out at rec or a bunch of them to court, okay, 3 they walk by, you scan their wrist, and it automatically 4 puts it into the computer. The report's in there, who the 5 officer is doing it, so you cut down on 50 percent of your 6 paperwork. Your handwritten stuff is automatically logged 7 into that scanner. But that portion of Software Group's is 8 $19,500, just that. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are those bands -- are 10 they easily transferred from one person to another? 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. They're just like 12 those hospital ones, and you can get all different kinds in 13 that with the printer that it prints on. Kind of like those 14 you see at Fiesta, Texas, or anything like that. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't go to those 16 kinds of places. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You ought to try it. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Have you got any 19 out-of-county prisoners in here now? 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We did have, I think, 21 eight of Bandera's. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that the only ones 23 you're taking, from Bandera? 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Fredericksburg -- I 25 talked with Milton; we discussed it. Milton wants to house 6-17-02 WK 12 1 his over here. He's housing them in -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Llano? 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Comanche. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah, Comanche County. 6 And they are charging him $26 a day. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And we are charging? 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: $37. And so his County 9 Judge, even though it was closer here and he wouldn't have 10 to transport, the County Judge said no, 10 bucks a day per 11 inmate, let's just keep housing them in Comanche and just 12 transport them. So, we won't get Milton's back. Bandera's, 13 we'll probably keep for a long time. Only difference with 14 Bandera is they like to send their troublemakers. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Of course. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't blame them. If 17 I was housing out-of-county, I'd send them my troublemakers. 18 It just depends. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: I know that this is -- that 20 this report represents a lot of work, and I don't want to 21 insult anybody -- 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- by suggesting that it's 24 not real, but what's critical in here? 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Critical? 6-17-02 WK 13 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Both the Sheriff and the jail 2 side. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, the most critical 4 thing is -- if I had to honestly look at the entire 5 department, Sheriff's side and jail side, as to where we are 6 really in critical need is jail personnel. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: You've identified eight here. 8 Can you narrow it down any more than that? 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The main one, if I had 10 to -- and it would be hard, would be at least five for 11 the -- to cover at least one more position in the control 12 room 24 hours a day. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: So, it would be another three 14 people? 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's five people. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One position, 17 including vacations and holidays? 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Is five people to fill 19 one position 24 hours a day. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You want two of them 21 in there from 11:00 to 7:00? 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You have to. That's 23 when a whole lot of other work gets done, a lot of the 24 problems in the cell blocks get started. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Every day, or just 6-17-02 WK 14 1 weekends basically? 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Every day. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Every day. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It doesn't slow down any 5 more. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's -- it used to, 8 you could say we got -- had a fast time and a slow time, but 9 it doesn't any more. If you don't have officers arresting, 10 bringing them in constantly, you got inmates that are 11 claiming they're sick, or somebody has got to be going back 12 and forth to cells all night long, or you're trying to get 13 30 of them ready for court or 20 of them ready, and it just 14 -- there's no slow times any more in that jail. I wish 15 there was. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How many -- how 17 much -- how many of these people that are in this book 18 are -- are in this budget coming up? 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: All I've put in this 20 budget -- all I said in there is, under a wish list, is 21 recommendations of Long-Range Committee. And I haven't 22 figured out any costs of any of this. That's something I 23 thought we would -- my jail budget, the jail side of the 24 budget, at my request, from last year to this year, went up 25 $2,000 without adding any new computer software stuff or 6-17-02 WK 15 1 anything like that. I think if you added all the requests 2 that I would like to have in it -- would you go and ask 3 Nancy to give me a copy of our budget request? Other 4 requests that I've asked for, I think the total is $2,000 in 5 the jail. In addition -- 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: $36,000, and then the eight 7 personnel, which is about $200,000. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Personnel only on the 9 jail side, or on both sides? 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: The jail side only. And then 11 the Sheriff's side has the -- you know, the -- he's asking 12 -- he's asking to start implementing the Long-Range Plan as 13 part of his wish list. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let me ask a question 15 about that. May I? 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Sure. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Page 5 and Page 6, 18 where your committee cites the Texas standards recommends 19 staffing one patrol officer for each 1,000, okay, and then 20 the next page goes on to talk about the need for 64 21 personnel, currently at 41, or 64 percent of those needed. 22 My question is, does the ratio stated in here by your 23 committee of 1-to-1000, okay, does that take into account 24 that 20,000 are in the incorporated city limits and serviced 25 by K.P.D.? And on the next page, is the ratio of personnel 6-17-02 WK 16 1 based on the county population, 43,000-plus, and does it 2 exclude City of Kerrville's 20,000, which are -- which are 3 maintained by C.O.K.? 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I would have to say I 5 think it does, but I'd have to check with the committee. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The numbers don't 7 seem to suggest that. That's the reason I asked. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. Well, you got -- 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I guess you could say 10 the same thing with Ingram's, Ingram Marshal and that 11 population relationship. But I'm more concerned about the 12 ratio as it applies to the county. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I wouldn't say it with 14 Ingram, because a lot of times we cover all of Ingram for 15 Ingram. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: So I'd hate to say it. 18 But in Kerrville, that's a good question. I'd have to ask 19 one of the committee members on how they came to that ratio, 20 and if that's correct. Okay. One of the other factors that 21 I think you have to watch especially is -- is the square 22 miles. I think the patrol area, to keep somebody in all the 23 areas is really hard to do. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would be -- 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: My major concern this 6-17-02 WK 17 1 year, I'll -- my major concern this year, okay, is jail. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is what? 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Jail. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Jail, okay. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You know, the Court gave 6 us four new patrol positions last year, which helped greatly 7 out on the street, and we're utilizing that the best -- 8 yeah, if I had it -- ideally, I'd like to have four or eight 9 more patrol positions, but -- and also reality, and looking 10 at where our biggest priority should be and our biggest 11 concern should be right now, I think it's jail. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And rightly so, 13 because this is the first time these numbers have ever 14 gotten up this high and maintained this level. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ever. And so it's 17 just -- I mean, I understand that. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We're making it. Patrol 19 gets swamped, but the way we're running the shifts, there's 20 some overlap there. There's -- you know, we do have peak 21 times kind of out there on the street for calls, and slower 22 times for other ones. But in the jail, you don't have it 23 any more; it's just constant. Between all the agencies 24 around, there is no slow moments any more in that jail. And 25 when they're -- you know, we're having to work them 12-hour 6-17-02 WK 18 1 shifts now or else I can't cover it with enough people to 2 even make -- meet the jail standards. I'd love to go to a 3 10-hour shift, the same way as the patrol deputies have now, 4 but if I went to a 10-hour shift in the jail, I can't even 5 meet the 1-to-48 jail standards, because we don't have the 6 personnel to do that. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Would jail standards 8 let you go to a 10-hour day? 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Hours worked, it doesn't 10 matter. To me, a jailer shouldn't really work many more 11 than eight hours, but a lot of them would like 10 hours 12 because they get more days off, and 10 hours is not that 13 much more than eight, and they're -- it makes them happier. 14 The hours we work doesn't -- doesn't matter to jail 15 standards. It's the number of people have you on duty. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: There's no equipment needs 17 that goes with the additional jailers, to speak of? 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: With additional jailers? 19 No, 'cause uniforms normally we can get, and that's your 20 biggest equipment, okay, need for jailers themselves, is 21 uniforms. The hand-held radios that we have back there, the 22 task force just give me about 12 of them, of their old ones 23 that they didn't want, and I've just got to get those 24 reprogrammed and refurbished, but there's not really any 25 additional equipment. 6-17-02 WK 19 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's not like hiring a new 2 patrol deputy, where you've got to get a car, a shotgun and 3 pair of handcuffs and -- 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. We do give them 5 handcuffs in the jail and things like that, but those are 6 jail issued and they keep them back there while they're on 7 duty and carry them. Once they go off, they leave them in 8 the jail, so it's not like they have to have that. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Records management. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't know what to do. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On Page 8. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Eight? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You mentioned the 14 scanner. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Uh-huh. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What about -- what 17 happened to the scanner that you drug me down to look at 18 with Linda one day? 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's not with this 20 system, remember? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, but I -- 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I didn't get into the 23 total price of all that or anything. Each -- my only 24 concern is -- and he said maybe they can do it that way and 25 all. My only concern is, with the way Ableterm works, each 6-17-02 WK 20 1 inmate -- each person has their own separate deal. You pull 2 up that person, you pull up everything about him, okay? 3 The -- the scanner-type deal that Ableterm does, Software 4 Group does, puts it in there automatically. I think you've 5 got two of them over at the clerk's office? 6 (Ms. Pieper nodded.) 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think the scanner 8 itself, the machine, could be a lot better, and I think 9 our -- that copier we have would work better for that. But 10 I like the way it adds it into that file and you don't have 11 to create another one and have it on disk or something else 12 and go back and pull that up. Everything gets shared with 13 everybody throughout the department. So, if I had it in the 14 jail, then I got to have a copy of the disk back there, and 15 investigators got to run back there and get it to pull it up 16 if you do it that way. It needs to all be -- we're dealing 17 with the same system, but the only -- the other serious part 18 about that is, if we started scanning all those old records 19 in there, okay, what would it do to the County's system? 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: We'd just have to add memory. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, I don't know what 22 Tommy's deal is, I mean, 'cause there is a lot. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: We had to do that when you 24 went to the photograph system. We had to buy -- we bought, 25 what, $20,000 worth of additional memory last year, year 6-17-02 WK 21 1 before? 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Then it's just a man -- 3 man hours and time to gradually get all that done. It's 4 going to take years. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: If we bought the software to 6 put the copier online, will that put it automatically into 7 the right file? 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If it's Ableterm -- 9 yeah, with that software. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: With that software. Then, if 11 we did that, which is a $4,000 hit, you don't get -- you 12 stop falling behind. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I stop falling -- 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: 'Cause your new stuff, you 15 can just run through the copier and it goes in. And then, 16 as you get time, you theoretically could get someone to, you 17 know, work this cabinet, feed all this stuff in, set up a 18 file. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: In the computer. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You'd at least start 22 making a little bit of headway. Mainly, you just won't go 23 behind. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Mainly, you won't go -- 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Farther behind. 6-17-02 WK 22 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, those records, 2 I've always had a picture in mind of having a trustee -- 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Can't do that. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They can't go into 5 those records? What about -- I mean, does it have to be, 6 like, a full-time County employee? Is that the deal? Does 7 that have to be a bonded person? 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, I asked Terry 9 Julian with the Jail Commission, 'cause I really wanted to 10 start seeing what we could get as far as volunteers, retired 11 people, even, doing booking, you know, that sit back there 12 and all they're doing is computer stuff. And I thought we 13 could probably get that, so I asked Terry Julian, who is, 14 you know, Jack Crump's -- took Jack's position. And he said 15 the only problem, anybody I have -- any volunteers, other 16 than the church people and that, that I have in the jail 17 have to have gone through the psychological, drug screen, 18 physical, and the jailer's training, which is an 80-hour 19 state-mandated course. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good lord. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: So we have to do all 22 that for them either way, and if they're a volunteer, are 23 they going to last a week? 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: They're never going to get 25 through the training. 6-17-02 WK 23 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Eighty hours. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Eighty hours. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And then they have to 4 also take the state-mandated exam and pass it after that 80 5 hours. So, how can I use volunteers if you've got to put 6 them all through that? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: May I ask you a 8 question? Somewhere in the building here, I noticed, in 9 terms of record retention and so forth, you've got one of 10 those filing systems similar to what Jannett has, the big 11 rolling racks. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right, on the other 13 side. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Wouldn't you be 15 better served by having another one of those back there 16 where those file cabinets are? It would give you more 17 space; you could use the same space to do twice what you're 18 doing. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's probably right. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't know what the 21 cost of those is, but that's a lot of utility in one of 22 those things. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd rather see us get 24 all this stuff in the computer and throw that junk out. 25 MS. PIEPER: Then the room could be utilized 6-17-02 WK 24 1 for something more. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, some of it has 3 to be retained for a long period of time. 4 MS. PIEPER: Then the room could be utilized 5 for something else. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: How much of the old paper do 7 you have to have a physical copy of? 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, it depends on what 9 part of all those retention deals you look at, because it's 10 really hard to figure out. Now, the paper we have the most 11 of is inmate requests, 'cause every day they're sending out, 12 you know, reams of paper of what they want, and for 13 liability purposes, we have to keep that. That I can 14 destroy if we had it scanned in, okay? Fingerprint cards, 15 we have to pretty well keep a copy of fingerprint cards on 16 file no matter what. We're always going to have those with 17 every inmate. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What do you have to do to 20 get the copier so we can scan, or can it already? 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: About $4,000 worth of 22 Ableterm, Software Group's, is what Shaun told me. I'd have 23 to get back with him and see to the dime. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: The copier -- the copier has 25 the capability of scanning? 6-17-02 WK 25 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Scanning. In fact, it's 2 been turned -- 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's a question of -- 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- into a printer. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's a question of hooking it 6 into the Ableterm system. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's hooked in. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, I mean, make it -- 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But whether or not the 10 link to turning it into a scanner for Ableterm is the deal. 11 But we did away with one of our printers that was costing us 12 600-something bucks for print cartridges every month and a 13 half. Did away with that, redoing that copy deal. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How are you going to -- 15 who's going to do the scanning? 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's a good question. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How private are the 18 records? I mean, can we -- 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It is -- it's all 20 private stuff, not open records stuff. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So you couldn't have 22 trustees doing it? 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Nope. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You talking about 25 the -- all those file cabinets, all that stuff has to be 6-17-02 WK 26 1 scanned? 2 (Sheriff Hierholzer nodded.) 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Long task. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Mm-hmm. You're talking 5 years to do it. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why is the -- this is a 7 bigger budget thing, but I -- it seems to me that with all 8 the departments wanting to scan, it would make a lot more 9 sense to have one department scan -- I mean, just have one 10 person, all they do is scanning. That's an idea for the 11 Court more than -- 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, I don't know. 13 Remember that guy that we talked to with Linda Uecker, and 14 what was it, Victoria County? They were going to go down 15 there and take care of it, and that was a million dollar 16 project to take care of their backlog of records, to get 17 them scanned for that county. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It would be massive. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah, it's unbelievable. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I really think you're 21 better off going point-forward. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: And then, as you have time -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If you have time; if not, 24 just store it. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Store them somewhere. 6-17-02 WK 27 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Set up a storage room in the 2 back and seal it, and put all that stuff in there. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And then go all the way 4 to the ceiling and have something -- 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Solution to that might be you 6 go back there and you build a, I would say, 20-by-15 storage 7 shed; you put in some of those sliding shelves like Bill was 8 talking about, and just -- 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But, see, a lot of those 10 records we have to get to, okay? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Access them? 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If -- yes. Because what 13 happens is -- Candy Garcia, all right? He would have 14 already had a file back there also. All right? So we have 15 to add everything from this time into that file, plus we may 16 need that file to see what his priors are for classification 17 purposes and all that. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, I mean -- 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: How often do you have to do 20 that? I mean, if it's -- 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Every day. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Somebody back there 23 pulling a file every day? 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Very seldom do we have 25 any more an inmate come in here that hasn't been here 6-17-02 WK 28 1 before. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Still, if you get to where 3 you're not creating more back -- old files, you go forward, 4 after a period of time you won't have to go into old files. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right, you'll have it 6 already in there. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: You'll have it in the 8 computer. It might be the kind of thing where you set up a 9 system where the first time an old -- an old buddy comes in, 10 you pull his file and you scan it all in the machine. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Then you can do away with 13 that. So, you'd have to have somebody do that. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you have any idea 15 what that system of yours cost? 16 MS. PIEPER: That what? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Rolling file. 18 MS. PIEPER: That was bought when Pat Dye was 19 here, so I wasn't involved with that. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: This one was part of 21 this building, so I don't know. They're not cheap, those 22 rolling systems. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They're not cheap, and 24 you have to have a really good floor, because they are 25 extremely heavy. 6-17-02 WK 29 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's what I'm saying. You 2 go in the back and build a pad for it, 20-by-30, and you put 3 six or eight of them in there. If they roll, you can put 4 them real close, 'cause you can always move them to get to 5 something behind. Padlock it. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You could just about put 7 them right there where our file cabinets are. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: But we -- 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That was my thought. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- we create more space for 11 you if we take them out of that building. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Oh, yeah. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: See, that's what I'm saying, 14 is, you know, how much does it cost to buy a 20-by-30 metal 15 building and pour a slab? Yeah, it costs some, but -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You'd have to have 17 air-conditioning and -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It must be 19 climate-controlled. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's the problem up 21 here on the hill with the one we got, 'cause I don't -- 22 y'all have some old records there? 23 MS. PIEPER: No, all my records are in my 24 office. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Are they now? Linda's 6-17-02 WK 30 1 still got some old ones up there. That's what we're hoping 2 to get rid of, that Linda gets rid of all those old records 3 out of that building, and this room can be turned into the 4 warrants and civil and/or other offices, and that building 5 up there, that two-thirds of it that we don't have access 6 to, can be turned into a training room. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, I mean, I like the 8 Judge's comment. Anything you build is going to be a heck 9 of a lot cheaper for a foot than what this building cost. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Is that before the lawsuit or 12 after the lawsuit? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Before, after, during. 14 Because the -- I mean, you figure 20-by-40, 800 square feet; 15 800 times $60 -- or $50, another $40,000. You can get, I 16 mean, a pretty good size room for $40,000, metal, you know 17 and then add A/C to it. I mean, for $50,000, $60,000, you 18 can build a huge storage room for filing, and all your 19 evidence stuff could go out there, you know. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: I don't know about the 21 evidence stuff. There's a different security need there 22 other than retention, but you could figure out a lot -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You could make it a 24 pretty secure building, seal it. It's going to end up being 25 a whole lot cheaper than this building. 6-17-02 WK 31 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yeah. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And free you up with a 3 lot of -- 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And evidence, you just 5 don't know. Because, like, some of that back there is -- is 6 15 years old. You know, maybe a death penalty case 7 that's -- it's there. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That would be -- I think 9 I would be more comfortable, if I were you, having it in 10 a -- in a building that's in a little bit better shape than 11 having all those brown bags stuffed in bookcases. I mean -- 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah, I agree. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is there a retention 14 schedule for that kind of stuff? 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Evidence? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just until the case is 18 tee-totally over and any appeals are over, any possibility 19 of appeals are over. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How do you know when that 21 is, when that happens? 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You have to do the 23 research and find it. That's it. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do we do that? 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Mm-hmm. 6-17-02 WK 32 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, you do throw 2 things away every now and then? 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Oh, yeah. Yeah, we 4 clear it out constantly. We're always getting rid of 5 something. But that's a -- that's one of the deals where it 6 would be so much nicer -- of course, we pull up a lot of 7 what Jannett has or Linda has in the computer to help us 8 with that, to figure out, but a lot of the real old stuff, 9 you still have to go up there and actually pull the hard 10 case file and see what the disposition is or anything like 11 that out of that. So, you can get rid of some of that, and 12 you have to get the court order and get rid of it. But then 13 you'll have a lot of stuff that -- say it's something that 14 came out of a burglary. We went to a crime scene, we got 15 fingerprints lifted; we got, you know, tire tracks lifted; 16 we got all kinds of stuff lifted. That burglary is 10 years 17 on statute of limitations, and if we don't get it solved 18 right away, we got to hang on to all that evidence for 10 19 years, because if we can trace it back to them 10 years from 20 now, we can still file a case. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well -- 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Unsolved murder, you 23 keep it in there forever. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But you do have a -- you 25 have a real problem with storage space. 6-17-02 WK 33 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Evidence-wise, yes. 2 We're getting -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The rest of it, really, I 4 mean, there are ways to use the square footage that's 5 currently there to make -- you can buy new file cabinets 6 and, I mean, you really don't need that much square footage. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Evidence, we're running 8 closer and closer. Within the next few years. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You can convert that 10 whole file room to an evidence room if you had a place to 11 put the files. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Which file room? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where all your case files 14 are. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right over here? The 16 Sheriff's Office one? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, the one back there. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I wouldn't want to turn 19 that into an evidence room, 'cause you're inside the 20 security perimeter of the jail, and you're going to have 21 guns and weapons and drugs and everything else in the world. 22 I'd have more inmates trying to find ways of breaking into 23 that thing. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You can put a secure 25 door. You have the hallway going down there. You can put 6-17-02 WK 34 1 another -- I would think there would be ways to secure that 2 room. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'd almost rather 4 redesign where the three investigators' offices are, the 5 little, bitty ones, and redesign the other area and this 6 area into investigators' offices, and open those three to be 7 joined with this current one. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Looks like you have 9 enough square footage. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think square footage, 11 Sheriff's Office wise, we're not in bad shape. Now, we'll 12 end up having to add cells within the next five years or so, 13 I bet. I don't think you'll have much choice; we'll be 14 overcrowded. And, at that point, the way that's designed 15 back there, you may be able to add the prefab ones and set 16 them down out back and just hook them into the system. See, 17 we're talking out those three exit doors, 'cause all you 18 need is cell blocks. You don't need control room area. You 19 have that rear control back there. You don't need any of 20 that kind of stuff. You don't need visitation areas or 21 anything like that. You just need cells, and you can 22 probably redo that to make that work with a lot less expense 23 than adding on all the rest of that stuff. So, I think that 24 can get there. This area up here, I think a lot of 25 redesigning can be done, and better utilization. 6-17-02 WK 35 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If you had to get 2 additional cell blocks, could you convert some of the dorm 3 areas up here into more of the actual cells, the dorm areas 4 back further? 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. The only place you 6 could possibly use is where the file room is now, and I 7 don't know how that would work. They'd have to finish that 8 out. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean -- 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: 'Cause everything else 11 is by square footage. Each inmate has to be allowed so much 12 square feet. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, but what I'm saying 14 is, because it would seem to me that building is going to be 15 more secure than if you add on out there, 'cause you put the 16 less risky prisoners out in the back part, then convert some 17 of the dormitory areas into more -- 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Probably could. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- you know, higher 20 security stuff. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Probably could. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 'Cause that way, you're 23 in the -- seems to me it's more secure inside this building. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Seems like to me, 25 though -- I see what you're talking about, but it seems like 6-17-02 WK 36 1 to me that they build these things in, like, 24 to 48 2 segments, bed segments. And it's just kind of a little 3 pattern thing that -- if you added it on out there, you'd 4 want to add on 24 beds or 48 beds, and it's just kind of a 5 set deal. That way, you're not refiguring anything that's 6 present. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Might as well add on 48, 8 because your jail standards for security is based on blocks 9 of 48. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: So if you had one or 48, 12 you're going to have the same number of additional 13 personnel. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's correct. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Might as well maximize your 16 benefit; just slap 48 down at once. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But jail's the biggest 18 concern that I have this year. Now, some of these things we 19 had cut -- you know, the budget was hard to -- to cut much 20 out of on my request and add a new thing. We tried to 21 decrease -- I think we -- last year, we cut a lot of -- 22 everybody worked hard at it, to where we really got it 23 narrowed down to about what it took to exist. If you look 24 at it right now -- and I got to figuring this -- the 25 Sheriff's Office part over here, our budget last year was 6-17-02 WK 37 1 one point -- I'm sorry, the Sheriff's Office was 2 $2.1 million. All right? Out of that $2.1 million, $1.7 3 million is employees. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is what? 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Employees. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's the health 8 insurance, you know, FICA, retirement, salaries and 9 everything. So, this entire Sheriff's Department runs off 10 $400,000 a year. That's cars, that's equipment, that's 11 uniforms, that's all the rest of that. The jail current 12 budget was 1 million -- $1.5 million -- 1.58, and $1 million 13 of that is all employees right now, so that means inmate 14 food, inmate medical, equipment, utilities, everything is -- 15 I don't know what more we can cut. Those are the most 16 expensive. I've got about -- as far as your longevity 17 raises and things like that coming on, the Sheriff's Office 18 has -- 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 19 16, 17 -- he just got his master's -- 17 employees that are 20 going to either be in line for the one-year longevity step 21 increase this year or the educational step increase. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're talking about 23 next -- this upcoming budget? 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: This up and coming 25 budget. 6-17-02 WK 38 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How many did you have 2 in the present budget? 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That were -- I'd have to 4 go back and look. The one -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wasn't near the 6 number, though, was it? 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: About three, I think. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah, it wasn't like 9 that. Okay. And the jail -- this one has about six, I 10 think. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But that's good. 12 Turnover's been cut down; that's a positive thing. We're 13 cutting down on our turnover. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Which is going to save us 16 a bunch of money. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Last year we had a lot 18 more turnover. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What? 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Jail had a lot more 21 turnover. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's kind of the 23 nature of the beast, though, isn't it? 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It is. But, you know, 25 there is something in there, and I don't know what to do 6-17-02 WK 39 1 about it. I'd like to be able to sit here and say every bit 2 of it's salary, okay, but it's not. A lot of it -- I had 3 some turnover because we went more and more computerized. 4 Some people think if they touch a computer key, it's going 5 to zap them into foreign orbit or something. So, we had 6 some changeover there, and there's just that kind of stuff. 7 But -- but a portion of it is salary, especially when we 8 start teaching more and more jail standards and it states 9 very directly in the jail standards that, you know, 10 corrections officers should be equivalent -- paid equivalent 11 to other officers, and we're paying them $6,000 -- between 12 $5,000 and $6,000 less than deputies. That does hurt. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I worked in the jail 14 at one time -- or several times, for Sheriff -- Kerr County 15 Sheriff, and it's a spooky place. It's an unpleasant place 16 to be, and it can affect your -- 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Stress levels for jail 18 employees is ten times worse. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It really can affect 20 your psyche, I can tell you. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They've got to watch the 22 whole time they're there. There is no lax time. A deputy 23 can get out there and patrol a certain area and kind of 24 relax at times and get away and take a break, you might say. 25 Now, true, you got to worry about guns, but I can promise 6-17-02 WK 40 1 you, our jailers find more dope and more contraband off 2 inmates coming in than you can imagine; it's every week. 3 You know, knives and/or dope or something like that. But I 4 think, you know, sooner or later in jails -- you know, 5 they've got basic, intermediate, and advanced jailers, 6 corrections officers. It's Jail Commission, every -- 7 TCLEOSE; everybody's trying to make it more of a career 8 position, because turnover rate is high in every jail. And 9 they're going to have to look at salaries to get that more 10 equivalent to your deputies, and you can really help with a 11 lot of that. Trying to take care of the training so that 12 they can get those other certificates. I just got my 13 advanced certificate this year, and I've been in it a long 14 time. It takes a while to get that kind of training in the 15 jail. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, Rusty, you're not 17 really going to address records management in this budget, 18 this year? 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We got to do something. 20 If we can get through -- we can get part of the scanning 21 going -- if we can get, like, the $4,000 package and 22 software, yes, that will do it with that copy machine. 23 Then, yes, I've got it in there as a wish list. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's here as a wish list, 25 yeah. 6-17-02 WK 41 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would like to see -- 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But I need personnel. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Again, talking really to 4 the rest of the Court more than to you, is that I really 5 think we need to develop a county-wide records plan, more so 6 than we have. Because, I mean, I know Linda -- 7 MS. PIEPER: It won't work. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think it needs to 9 be able to be a system that is -- that can be used by 10 everybody and entered -- Linda wants one, every office wants 11 one, and I don't see how we can go with how many different 12 type systems. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I put it in under wish 14 list, Software Group package for records management 15 scanning, and I left it at $16,000. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: But it -- 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And if we can do it with 18 the $4,000, you know, this package, and use this copy 19 machine we have, it's great. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just want to make sure 21 if we -- we end up with something that's usable, whatever. 22 I don't want to do a little cheap fix now that -- 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's why I say it 24 needs to be Ableterm system, if we're going to stay with 25 Software Group. Which, for law enforcement purposes, I know 6-17-02 WK 42 1 it's an expensive system, but it's the best law enforcement 2 and jail system I've ever seen. There's a lot of other 3 packages we need. We need fleet management so that we can 4 control all our car stuff and keep all the records 5 documented in the computer system. I need inmate tracking, 6 okay? I need crime scene imaging, digital imaging to where 7 we can just plug in cameras, digital cameras into it, 8 instead of going through 20 rolls of film a week that we go 9 through now taking crime scene pictures and things like 10 that, and get to pay for the development. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would think that's the 12 kind of thing, if you're using that much additional cameras, 13 you've gotten to the point -- and high quality ones, you can 14 pay for a camera with what you're paying for the film. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah, I can. I've asked 16 for it. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: The budgets -- just for 18 y'all's information, the budgets are -- are in, and I've 19 told Thea to go ahead and put the books together, so you 20 ought to have your books by the end of the week. And I'm 21 going to be gone, but if you don't have them by the end of 22 the week, you might want to inquire as to what the status 23 is. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The inmate tracking is 25 $19,200. The -- say $4,000, $5,000 for all the scanning 6-17-02 WK 43 1 stuff, if you got that, okay. The other thing I had -- if 2 insurance goes the way -- insurance costs for the jail 3 complex goes the way it's gone the last two years, that's 4 going to increase close to $3,000. Postage, I didn't 5 increase but a couple hundred. Took $7,000 away from 6 software. I took it -- a couple hundred, is all I did. The 7 software maintenance, you can -- that's an increase of about 8 $2,500. Capital outlay, what I asked for last year was 9 $11,000. This year I've asked for $6,750, just to be able 10 to replace two computers, because I'm sure we're going to 11 have at least two go down during the year. And then I've 12 asked for the camera monitors and that to expand that in the 13 control room. And I've got -- one, two, three, four, five 14 -- six jail employees due one-year step increases. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And then the wish lists 17 was the inmate tracking, filing cabinet and records 18 management, additional personnel. Total wish list, without 19 personnel, if I were to get everything I wished for, which I 20 know I won't, is $36,000 in the jail. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Pretty reasonable, Rusty. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, the employees are 23 going to take a lot, and I didn't include any of that. You 24 know, I didn't include the cost-of-living, and I know all 25 that's going to go up. I need to concentrate on employees. 6-17-02 WK 44 1 We can make it with a lot of things; we've just got to have 2 employees. Sheriff's Office part went up more, but there is 3 -- I kept the six cars in there, six more. Some of the 4 Sheriff's Office liability insurance, if it goes up like it 5 did last year, I increased it $11,000, just on liability 6 insurance. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How many cars -- this is 8 just continuing, so we're going to have -- the first lease 9 is -- 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: First lease is over. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is over now, so we're 12 at -- and those are coming out, so we're just -- 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: For $6, we're buying those 14 cars, and the Sheriff intends to replace some of the older 15 C.I.D. and transport cars with those. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I still have -- I pulled 17 it -- I've got one with 182,000, one with 242,000 -- these 18 are miles on them. One with 159,000, 175,000, 156,000, 19 208,000, 178,000. So, we've still got some we got to get 20 rid of. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: These will be coming 22 out this -- with the new lease? 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: With the new lease, we 24 should be getting rid of the next six highest ones, 25 which -- one, two -- two of those that we'll be getting rid 6-17-02 WK 45 1 of have over 200,000 miles on them, and the other ones would 2 all have over 150,000 miles on them, 150,000 to 170,000. 3 So, we still have to get rid of those. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Didn't we have this 5 exact same conversation last year? 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Probably pretty close. 7 Pretty close. Although our first year of six that we got, 8 as of last month, the highest mileage of those that I -- 9 that I have is -- this was last month -- 48,500. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How much? 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: 48,500 in the last 12 month. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Shoot, Jonathan does more 14 than that in six months. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, you got one person 16 driving, working a 10-hour shift. They -- you know, I get 17 more and more calls; they don't have the time to just 18 actually drive around as much any more. They're bouncing 19 from call to call, so mileage has gone down there to take 20 care of everybody. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: If we can just keep them from 22 running into those deer, we'll be in better shape. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Maintenance costs, 24 have they -- 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Maintenance costs have 6-17-02 WK 46 1 decreased drastically on all those Fords. But, you know, 2 the deer -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- things come out of 5 the same budget. And this year, I've even increased the 6 budget for repair and maintenance, because a lot of our -- 7 our deductibles and all that come out from hitting those 8 deer, and we've had a bang-up year. And then those that 9 still have the -- the hundred-plus thousand miles on them 10 are getting more and more expensive to keep them going. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think this is the best part 12 of why we got this rolling lease. I think it's made a big 13 difference. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's been great. But 15 the other big increases, we cut -- we were able to cut some 16 out of there. I've added -- and actually, the cost of this 17 next six went down some, $53,995 Capital Outlay, which is 18 actually an increase of $5,200. And you have to look at 19 that, look at the budget, 'cause Tommy takes the first -- 20 the initial payment with the equipment and the lease out of 21 Capital Outlay and then transfers it to Lease Contracts, so 22 it goes up there, you know. I had to add into the Sheriff's 23 Office $9,000 for the radio tower leases, which we've never 24 had before. It's going over, 'cause you got that $250 a 25 month. 6-17-02 WK 47 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: I thought it was $3,000. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I added insurance costs 3 for the cars; that went up $1,000. Went up $1,000 on 4 training. And decreased the cost -- last year, it was -- 5 total cost, Capital Outlay, which includes the six vehicles 6 for $56,000, and all the equipment for them. This year it's 7 51, so we were able to cut it some. The personnel going up 8 and their packages, and overall costs of the Sheriff's 9 Office just in the regular budget -- and I know you like a 10 zero line budget, but I couldn't do it, 'cause I was afraid 11 of the liability insurance costs and the other utilities 12 costs still went up at that point. That was -- 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Right. Anything else on the 14 long-term plan and projection? I mean, it's a good roadmap. 15 I mean, it's a roadmap developed by people who spent a lot 16 of time digging into this project. I know, you know, my 17 appointee moved and wasn't as active as I would have hoped 18 he was, but I know all you guys' appointments really got in 19 here and did a good job. So -- 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think they did 21 excellent, and it opened a lot of eyes, I think, to manpower 22 needs, being the major one. You know, the Court had already 23 started taking care of radio needs, communication needs. 24 There will be -- and I think it's something we need to look 25 at in the next number of years as far as remodeling or 6-17-02 WK 48 1 additional additions to the facility, itself, taking care of 2 some problems there. But, the biggest overall deficiency 3 they saw is manpower. And, to start tackling that and 4 understanding everything, I think we're -- the jail would 5 have to be my major concern on manpower. Just to add one 6 employee here or there won't do it, when you look at the 7 addition, you know, of one employee 24 hours is five 8 employees. And the jail runs 24 hours, no matter what. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Rusty, what is the 10 status of the consolidated system? 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's on hold until at 12 least next year. Chuck and I want to look at some grant 13 stuff. It would cost the City close to $100,000, because at 14 the same time they'd want to go to the Software Group 15 package for dispatching, so all those records work for both 16 departments, and they would have to fund the -- the next two 17 consoles. We got two radio consoles coming in, what the 18 County's already bought, their computer upgrade, but if they 19 buy the same type of ones for the consolidated, they're 20 looking at a total cost of about $200,000. And I think that 21 grant's going to take care of a major portion, if not just 22 about all of that, but we decided to wait till next year to 23 look at that. 24 And I'm going to ask the Court this year -- I 25 already told Chuck -- the City pays $30 a day for inmate 6-17-02 WK 49 1 housing. They only get charged one day, and it's only on 2 Class C misdemeanors, okay? Anything above that, if they 3 arrest DWI, they don't get charged for it. The County 4 absorbs all that cost, 'cause it gets called in the county 5 courts only once; they get charged for the city offenses, 6 you know, P.I.'s, Class C's, so they get charged one day and 7 that's it. They're paying $30 a day, although the counties 8 that we house for, we went up last year to $37. And I'm 9 going to ask the Court to go up to $37 on the City, and I've 10 already told Chuck that and he's already planning it in his 11 budget. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I never realized that the 13 City didn't pay any of the prisoner costs, help -- 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Nope. I think they 15 ought to have to share the total cost, but that's -- that's 16 the way it works. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's something that I 18 don't think -- the community doesn't know. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: I need you to get me that 20 number so I can get to it Ron Patterson before our July 10th 21 joint meeting. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's been given to 23 Chuck. I had a note last week when I wasn't here. I sent 24 him a letter saying what I intend on asking for, so that 25 they have it for Ron to present in budget. 6-17-02 WK 50 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's a good argument. 2 Whenever they ask us to pay for their roads, say, "Fine, you 3 start paying for our jail." 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If that guy's -- and if 5 he's charged with public intoxication and, say, criminal 6 trespass or Class B, they don't pay it. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Comes back right in 8 the middle of county residents, too. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I know, but it's the same 10 argument they use on roads. They want us to pay for city 11 streets. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's not going to 13 happen. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's not going to 15 happen, but they're not going to pay for this, either. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But I really -- 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: They'll take the increase. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The increase, but they 19 don't handle the residents, people that are in the city; 20 they wouldn't pay the full daily rate. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: No. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Some of the computerized 23 advances we can use in the jail, such as the inmate tracking 24 system, along with the additional employees. Biggest thing 25 that can help our jail. 6-17-02 WK 51 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Any other questions? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: At what point -- at 3 what point are we going to put a dollar figure with all that 4 stuff? 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, I don't know a 6 salary level -- okay, if you add five people, I don't know 7 what you're talking about. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Jailers. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Their salary right now 10 is $19,858 starting salary for jailers. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: I figure $25,000 per employee 12 at that level, 'cause you figure 25 percent of their salary 13 goes to benefits, so you're looking at $125,000 for five 14 employees. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And then, if you did the 16 inmate tracking, which would drastically help employees, 17 because they don't have to hand-write all that; it's 18 automatically in the computer system, and save all the way 19 down, that's another $20,000. So, you're talking $145,000. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Then if you add the $4,000 -- 21 the software package for the -- 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: $150,000. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- scanner, scanning 24 capability, you're at $150,000. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, if you expect 6-17-02 WK 52 1 this Commissioner to consider these things and to cast a 2 vote on them, I'm going to have to have a dollar figure. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'll give you the dollar 4 figure on the inmate tracking, Buster, and I can give it to 5 you on the scanner. My problem is, until we know what kind 6 of salaries they're going to set and what -- I have to get 7 Barbara to give me a dollar figure on all the -- the related 8 costs with an employee. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: We'll have those dollar 10 figures by the time we get down to putting our budget to 11 bed. It's just a question of putting -- 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Even the budget, when it 13 comes out, we're told, as per Henneke, don't even worry 14 about filling out the employees, so I don't fill out 15 employees. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, another 17 question. At what point -- there's a recommendation that we 18 expand the jail facility. At what point do you see that 19 happening? 2003? 2004? 2005? 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The increases that we've 21 seen, if they continue -- I mean, we've seen a drastic 22 increase in the number of bookings and -- and adding the 23 population for a while. I would say that it's going to get 24 -- we can probably make it with where we are for a maximum 25 of maybe five years -- four to five years. But the planning 6-17-02 WK 53 1 stages to add -- I mean, that's where we are. We don't -- 2 we can't wait five years to start planning or start 3 building. We're going to be at our maximum levels in five 4 years. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think when you -- when you 6 get to where you have a consistent average of 160 inmates 7 per night -- and I'm talking over a -- 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We've passed it. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: No, you're at 118 right now, 10 so you're not at a consistent average. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Average for what our -- 12 what we should be housing is 192 beds; 80 percent of that is 13 153 inmates, is when we should be full. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: But that's what I'm saying, 15 is when you're averaging 153, 160 inmates over a consistent 16 period of time, and I'm talking at least three months, then 17 you better be hiring your architect or talking to these 18 modular people, figuring out what it's going to cost and how 19 you're going to finance. So, to me, that's the trigger. 20 You know, instead of four to five years, it's when are we 21 averaging 153, 160 inmates a night over a long enough period 22 to say that this is not a blip? You know, when we had to 23 put all of our out-of-county prisoners out back in December 24 'cause we got a hundred -- we had 202. That was a blip. 25 And now we're back down into the 118-130 range, so what I'm 6-17-02 WK 54 1 saying is when you're consistently hitting that 160 inmates 2 a night over a four- to six-month period, then you'd better 3 be hiring your architect or looking at modulars and making 4 plans on how you're going to finance it, 'cause you're going 5 to have to do that within 18 months. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'd say at the most, a 7 hundred -- when you consistently hit 150 without 8 out-of-county. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yeah, I'm talking about 10 without out-of-county. I'm talking about your own people. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Which, at 150, you're 12 getting so close; then it's going to take a year for 13 architects and all the rest of that. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's my understanding 15 that part of the reason for the increase of our local 16 prisoners is how the County Attorney's office is handling 17 themselves in the courtroom. Instead of slapping people on 18 the hand and wishing them well, they're actually putting 19 them in jail now. What if -- I mean, has anyone thought, or 20 have you thought about what if there's -- happens to be a 21 change in the County Attorney's attitude? Or a new 22 Assistant County Attorney comes along with a new, different 23 way of doing things, and -- 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, I hope -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you know what I'm 6-17-02 WK 55 1 saying? 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I hope that there isn't 3 a change, 'cause you can go through the last year's UCR, 4 Uniform Crime Reporting, as far as actual crime rates in 5 this county, and with the County Attorney's attitude that 6 they've had and they're giving these guys 180 days, six 7 months in jail, our actual crime rate has dropped 8 drastically, because we're keeping them in jail. So, I'm 9 going to constantly encourage them to do just what they're 10 doing. If we have to add, we have to add at a point, but 11 the crime rate dropping out in the county is fabulous. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But -- that's true. We 13 might get to the point that the population is starting to 14 taper off, because when they get out of jail, they're going 15 to say, "I don't want the live in this county; I'd rather go 16 somewhere else where I'm not going to end up in jail all the 17 time." 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I hope that is true. 19 The county population's growing. Everything else is 20 growing. You know, one thing that -- that the State was 21 telling us is that, like with a lot of your gangs, you -- 22 okay, that are constant ones that you'll have, is Bexar 23 County will start coming down on gang units or with their 24 gang units on the gangs so bad that a lot of those gangs are 25 now moving out to the rural areas, getting out of the city 6-17-02 WK 56 1 of San Antonio and Bexar County. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I would think 3 that we would -- I mean, this Commissioner would certainly 4 desire to have the bad guys off of our streets, as opposed 5 to the out-of-county -- housing out-of-county prisoners. 6 And we really want lower -- lower crime rates. I mean, you 7 know -- 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's the whole key to 9 everything. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what we want. 11 So, you know, whatever it takes to do that, to protect 12 citizens, that's what we have to do. Do I hear an amen? 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Amen. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Amen, brother. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Got to do what you 16 got to do. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Actually, I called 18 y'all here for a fundraiser for my new campaign. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Electronic equipment 20 going computerized and more personnel, that's all I can ask 21 for. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And you have dollar 23 figures on those things? 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yeah. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Personnel, we're not 6-17-02 WK 57 1 going to worry about. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Dollar figures are in the 3 budget, which you should get in the next couple days. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. They're there. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Cool, dude. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Anything else? Going 7 once? Going twice? Sold. We're adjourned. Thank you. 8 (Workshop concluded at 3:20 p.m.) 9 - - - - - - - - - - 10 STATE OF TEXAS | 11 COUNTY OF KERR | 12 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 13 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 14 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 15 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 16 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 21st day of June, 2002. 17 18 19 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 20 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 21 Certified Shorthand Reporter 22 23 24 25 6-17-02 WK