1 2 3 4 KERRVILLE CITY COUNCIL 5 and 6 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 7 City/County Joint Meeting 8 Wednesday, July 10, 2002 9 4:00 p.m. 10 City Council Chambers 11 800 Junction Highway 12 Kerrville, Texas 13 14 15 16 P R E S E N T 17 Kerrville City Council: 18 STEPHEN P. FINE, Mayor 19 DAVID WAMPLER, Mayor Pro Tem ANN G. SULLIVAN, Place 1 20 NANCY BANKS, Place 2 GENE SMITH, Place 4 21 RON PATTERSON, City Manager 22 Kerr County Commissioners Court: 23 FREDERICK L. HENNEKE, Kerr County Judge 24 H.A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 25 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 LARRY GRIFFIN, Commissioner Pct. 4 1 I N D E X July 10, 2002 2 PAGE 3 1. Call to Order 3 4 2. Discussion and appropriate action, if needed, of joint-budgeted items: 5 Fire Protection/Emergency Management 8 6 EMS 12 7 First Responder 18 8 Prisoner Support 27 9 Police Task Force 29 10 Airport 32 11 Community Recycling Center 44 12 Library 48 13 Animal Control 65 14 Tax Collection 66 15 16 3. Discussion and appropriate action, if needed, of other potential joint ventures: 17 Municipal Court 68 18 Plat Review 74 19 Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center 80 20 21 -- Adjourned 100 22 23 24 25 3 1 On Wednesday, July 10, 2002, at 4:00 p.m., a special joint 2 meeting of the Kerrville City Council and the Kerr County 3 Commissioners Court was held at City Council Chambers, 800 4 Junction Highway, Kerrville, Texas, and the following 5 proceedings were had: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 MAYOR FINE: I don't know where a gavel's 8 hidden; I'll just rap knuckles on the table. Sorry I'm 9 late. Appreciate y'all waiting on me before you got 10 started. I want to welcome everyone to the special meeting 11 of the Kerrville City Council and Kerr County Commissioners 12 on Wednesday, July 10th, 2002. I want to welcome the County 13 here. Appreciate y'all coming. This is something we 14 started last year. I think it was very beneficial in 15 opening some dialogue, get both of our budgets on track, 16 keep the line of communication open between our two 17 governments, and hope everyone dealt with the rain that we 18 got this afternoon -- a little bit of rain that we got this 19 afternoon. Fred? 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you, Mayor. And on 21 behalf of the Kerr County Commissioners Court, I want to 22 thank you for hosting this event. We'll formally call to 23 order this joint budget workshop with the City of Kerrville 24 City Council, and our thanks to you for hosting it. Our 25 thanks to you and your staff for preparing the workbooks. 7-10-02 JCC 4 1 And, again, I've told you many times, my thanks to you and 2 to all the members of the Council and the staff for all of 3 the cooperation and the help that we have enjoyed during the 4 recent flood event. I think the way that we all came 5 through this, not just the City and the County, but also the 6 volunteer fire departments, the volunteer agencies, and the 7 law enforcement agencies, show how governments can work 8 together for the good of everybody, and we're here to 9 continue that trend. So, thank you again for having us 10 today. 11 MAYOR FINE: Okay. The Rotary Club just gave 12 a very generous gift to the Salvation Army today to help 13 with their efforts, so I'm happy to see members of the 14 community coming out in full force; it's really nice to see 15 that. And I want to congratulate Weaks Martin -- I'll say 16 it one more time, even though he's probably getting more 17 press than anybody right now; he turned 100 years old 18 yesterday and he has 62 years of perfect attendance with 19 Rotary. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Wow. 21 MAYOR FINE: Sixty-two years. 22 MS. SULLIVAN: Talk about dedication. 23 MAYOR FINE: He's still a pretty spry guy. I 24 didn't talk to him too much, but it was really impressive, 25 62 years. But, anyway, I just wanted to give him accolades 7-10-02 JCC 5 1 one more time. That was a very impressive feat for anybody, 2 and to live to be 100, I mean, I think -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's impressive in 4 itself. 5 MAYOR FINE: That's impressive in itself. 6 Okay. I guess we'll jump right into it. 7 MR. PATTERSON: (Cell phone rang.) I 8 apologize. FEMA. I was getting to be good friends with 9 them. Well, first of all, I'll -- I'll apologize up front 10 that we're a little disjointed today. And we got the 11 packets out, but as you well know, you know, with the events 12 that have occurred over the last week, I'll be very frank 13 with you, we've had to throw a lot of this, in terms of the 14 presentation portion of it, together. The booklets and 15 everything are fine, and the data's good there, but our 16 presentation -- if we're a little rough, I apologize for 17 that today. But, again, we're -- we'll do our very best 18 today to get this pulled together. First of all, I'd just 19 like to say thank you again, second year in a row. I think 20 this is a great process, and one that, you know, I hope that 21 we continue for a long time. And I believe it has helped us 22 both be able to take a look at our joint operations. 23 So, with that said, what I've -- in the 24 booklet that we've provided for you -- or notebook; I 25 shouldn't say booklet -- we've given you again the data that 7-10-02 JCC 6 1 we use to develop the budgets. We have all the backup 2 information for each of those budgets behind there. We have 3 provided all of -- not only the summary pages and our fiscal 4 notes, but in addition to that, the actual budget documents 5 that generate the numbers that you see in the book. And I 6 need to get rid of -- excuse me just a minute. Forgot to 7 turn off my e-mail. There we go. 8 The first thing that we might want to look at 9 here, which we'll jump to here very quickly -- and this only 10 shows a portion of it, but obviously, in the very front, the 11 second tab in the notebook is Tab Number 2. And, just to 12 review that with you very quickly, is that what we have done 13 is, each program that we'll be discussing today, we have 14 broken those into the categories, from Emergency Management, 15 Fire Contract on the far left, all the way across to Animal 16 Control and Tax Collection on the far right. What we've 17 done is -- is, just as we did last year, we've provided what 18 the -- the Fiscal Year '02 current budget is for each of the 19 entities, Kerr County being at the top and Kerrville 20 followed underneath that. And then in the Totals section 21 down at the bottom, we've rolled both budgets together. We 22 thought that was a very good tool for you to be able to see 23 what the actual cost of each of these programs are. In some 24 cases, the County predominantly funds it; in others the City 25 predominantly funds. So, it's good to see what the total 7-10-02 JCC 7 1 cost is, I think. Because, again, they're all the -- 2 they're all the same taxpayers, so that's important 3 information. 4 Again, then, in FY '03, those are going to be 5 the proposed numbers that we'll be discussing today. And 6 any -- any changes, anything in the change category that you 7 see on that line item, either in the top or the bottom -- 8 excuse me, in the Kerr County section or the City of 9 Kerrville section, those are proposed change volumes or 10 amounts that would be added to the Fiscal Year '02 budget. 11 So, in other words, if you look in '02 and you see a number 12 there, and in -- and let's just use Fire Contract, for 13 instance. Under that, if you'll look down there under the 14 City, you'll see FY '02 is 2.3 million; FY '03 is 2.8, so 15 there's, like, a $500,000 difference there. That is the 16 change that we will be presenting and discussing today a 17 little bit. And, again, at the bottom, you will see what 18 the total change is for the entire program. 19 Are there any questions on the summary sheet 20 before we start actually getting into the actual programs? 21 Okay. Well, I think, then, we'll jump right in. And what 22 we'd like to do is start off with Fire Suppression and 23 Emergency Management. You'll note, in this section, that on 24 this particular program, that there -- there is not a -- 25 there is not any proposed changes to the County contract. 7-10-02 JCC 8 1 Last year it was adjusted, you'll recall, by $25,000, 2 bringing that total to the $100,000 that's reflected. 3 However, there are some changes in there with regard to 4 salaries for the fire department, et cetera, that are 5 contained in those numbers. And, with that said, I'm going 6 to let Raymond take over and talk about Fire Contract and 7 Emergency Management, and then we have Kyle here to discuss 8 with us about the Emergency Medical Director, and you may 9 cover that, and also the First Responder program. Raymond? 10 MR. HOLLOWAY: Well, as Ron mentioned 11 earlier, there is -- there's no changes in the fire contract 12 with the County. We felt like, last year, that we needed it 13 to be adjusted, and y'all agreed to that change, so there's 14 no changes in that. The change, then, in Emergency 15 Management Coordinator's position -- and if y'all would like 16 for me to briefly go over some of this, I'll be glad to. 17 MR. PATTERSON: You might talk about the call 18 level volumes. 19 MR. HOLLOWAY: Yeah. The City has been 20 averaging approximately 566 calls -- fire calls per year, 21 and 116 those have been into the county. That's an average. 22 The number of runs in the first nine months of this year, 23 we've made 551 calls; 92 of those are in the county. This 24 compares with 540 calls during the first nine months of last 25 year, with 104 in the county. So, we've made a few fewer 7-10-02 JCC 9 1 calls into the county in the first nine months of this year 2 than we did last year, but there again, that's based on the 3 average. We're pretty close to what the average is per -- 4 for -- actually, looks like we may be making more calls at 5 the end of the year for the whole year than we have been on 6 the average. So, we're not really requesting any change in 7 that contract this year. Are there any questions on any of 8 that part of it? 9 Now, Emergency Management Coordinator's 10 position. And I'm the coordinator for the city of 11 Kerrville, city of Ingram, and Kerr County. And, of course, 12 my responsibility is to coordinate, as I have been doing the 13 last several days. I've earned my money today -- this last 14 couple weeks. But we -- one of the requirements for being 15 Emergency Management Coordinator is that I have to keep the 16 plan updated, and I think most of y'all have seen the plan. 17 There's several annexes in it, and then we have to have 18 simulated disasters once a year, and that kind of has helped 19 us. When we open the E.O.C. up, and for the process we've 20 had to go through during this flooding situation, the -- the 21 State pays a certain percentage. I'm a 50 percent 22 coordinator, and so the -- what that means is that 50 23 percent of my time, I -- I spend toward some type of 24 emergency management operation during the year. And so 25 the -- our budget is $12,369, and the City -- actually, the 7-10-02 JCC 10 1 City pays $12,369, and then the County pays $3,720 of that 2 contract. That hasn't changed -- gee whiz, it's been a long 3 time since we've made any changes to that -- that part of 4 the contract, and some of that is based on my salary. I 5 also have an assistant coordinator, Mark Beavers; he's my 6 training officer. He spends about 20 percent of his time 7 doing these functions also. Are there any questions on the 8 Emergency Management Coordinator portion of that? 9 MAYOR FINE: Does the real emergency count as 10 your training for this year? 11 MR. HOLLOWAY: Well, what we can apply -- and 12 when we have an actual occurrence, we can apply for a 13 full-scale simulated disaster, and generally they give us 14 that. So, yeah, this will -- we'll apply for that, so we 15 won't -- probably won't have to have a training scenario 16 this year. Now, what we have to do at the hospitals, both 17 the V.A. and the -- and Sid Peterson, they have to have a 18 simulated disaster every year, so we kind of coordinate with 19 them, and what we end up doing is just bringing patients in 20 to them, and then they work in the emergency rooms to see 21 how they can handle that type of situation. So, we do that 22 every year, and that's usually how we do our simulated 23 disasters. But if we have an actual occurrence, you know, 24 like the brush fires we had out there a few years ago and 25 now this, and we coordinate and we can use that, but we 7-10-02 JCC 11 1 usually end up having to do another -- a smaller -- a 2 simulation with the hospital. 3 MR. PATTERSON: Primarily triage-type thing. 4 MR. HOLLOWAY: What we'll do is they'll get a 5 bunch of patients from Schreiner College or somewhere and 6 we'll fix them up to look like they've got broken bones; 7 it's really pretty cool. And our guys -- ambulance will 8 pick them up, take them to the emergency room. 9 MR. PATTERSON: That really wasn't exercised 10 a whole lot in this one, thank God. 11 MR. HOLLOWAY: Yes, thank goodness. We took 12 a few patients to the hospital, but I think there were, 13 like, nine people injured total, and three of them were -- 14 were firefighters who had minor injuries, cuts and twisted 15 legs and stuff like that, but nothing serious. Any other 16 questions on that part of it? 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Looks good. 18 MR. PATTERSON: Are there -- I would like to 19 ask, too -- I mean, are there any issues that you've seen 20 with this current operation that we can look at for the 21 future, too? 22 MR. HOLLOWAY: There will be a critique when 23 this is all over with, and we'll sit down and critique what 24 we could have done maybe better and what we did -- did do 25 good. But, you know, after it kind of calms down a couple 7-10-02 JCC 12 1 weeks, we'll probably try to do that. 2 MR. PATTERSON: All right, thank you. 3 MR. HOLLOWAY: The EMS program, last year we 4 raised -- well, actually, back up a minute. Last year we 5 talked about adding another crew to our transfer crew. We 6 have one crew -- we had one crew that runs 8:00 to 5:00, 7 five days a week, doing most of the transfers back and forth 8 to San Antonio. We -- after discussion with the hospital, 9 we felt like we were losing some of those transfers to the 10 private ambulance services, and so we felt like that if we 11 added another crew, then we could pick up those, and we 12 wouldn't be losing that revenue to private companies. So, 13 we applied for a grant last year, and hoping that -- that if 14 we got the grant -- it was to buy an ambulance and some 15 equipment, and then we would furnish the people. Well, we 16 were turned down on that grant. Twice, actually. And, 17 because of that, we had to raise the rates 10 percent last 18 year, and we're going to have to raise the rates 10 percent 19 again this year in order to try to keep up -- keep our heads 20 at least right below the water level. 21 And, so, the EMS operation, in case some of 22 y'all are not aware -- I think everybody is aware, that's a 23 user-pay system. No tax money at all goes into the 24 operation of the EMS. If we don't pick you up, it doesn't 25 cost you a penny for EMS. If we pick you up, then there's a 7-10-02 JCC 13 1 charge for that, and that's what makes our operation work. 2 If we don't get the revenue in, then we can't -- you know, 3 it's more difficult for us to make it meet. So, we were 4 supposed to raise the rates when we first took over EMS, 5 5 percent every year for the first five years. Well, we did 6 so well the first year that we only raised the rates one 7 time, and through that same period of time, there were 8 salary increases. We also added three additional people to 9 the budget, and we started realizing that, well, wait a 10 minute, the revenue's not coming in as fast as the money's 11 going out. So, that's the reason for the 10 percent 12 increase in the rates also again this year. And I guess 13 that's about all on EMS operation, unless y'all have some 14 questions. I think I've given y'all this -- this talk 15 before. 16 MR. PATTERSON: I was just going to add to 17 something you said, too. Remember, also, part of the goal 18 of -- of adding that crew -- the transfer crew this year 19 was, they're -- actually, the primary reason for adding them 20 was simply the fact that the actual -- and you have to break 21 it down; it's all in the same EMS budget, but you really 22 have two functions, EMS and transfers. Those are two 23 distinct functions. And what was happening was -- is the 24 transfer load was beginning to impact on EMS so much that 25 they were getting eaten up with time making these transfer 7-10-02 JCC 14 1 runs, taking them out of the county. And so the idea was to 2 add this other crew, get them on board so we can begin to 3 take some of that burden off the EMS crews, and that is 4 working. 5 MR. HOLLOWAY: Right. 6 MR. PATTERSON: It's not 100 percent, but 7 it's working, and so we want to continue to monitor that, 8 look at that, too. But that was another key ingredient why 9 this was done. Now, I know some people kind of thought, 10 well, you know, it's to generate more money. Well, you add 11 the other crew, yes, it generates more money to pay for the 12 crew you're adding, but the idea is to get the load off of 13 those EMS crews, because we wanted to keep them in here as 14 much as possible. 15 MR. HOLLOWAY: Yeah. The crew -- the EMS 16 crews that we're talking about, they work 24-hour shifts, so 17 if they take a -- a transfer to San Antonio, it's about a 18 three-and-a-half-hour turnaround. By the time you get the 19 patient on board, you go to San Antonio and get back and 20 clean the ambulance and restock, well, that's about three 21 hours. So, if they take a -- take someone to San Antonio, 22 say, at 8 o'clock in the evening, by the time they get 23 turned around and get back down here, well, you're looking 24 at midnight. Well, it's possible that they could make 25 another transfer at 2 or 3 o'clock in the morning. So, you 7-10-02 JCC 15 1 know, they're on the highway a lot of hours driving back and 2 forth, and it was real hard on those guys. So, by doing 3 this, we were able to follow more transfers during the 4 period that they worked. And our crews are working from 5 7:30 to -- well, 7:00 -- 7:30 to 7:00, we have a transfer 6 crew on the road, so we're able to relieve some of those 7 guys -- emergency guys a little bit, and that's helping. 8 It's taking a lot of burden off these guys; it's keeping 9 them from maybe getting a little burnout. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just an indirect comment. 11 I don't know if you know or not, but it looks like the 12 Hermann Sons temporary bridge washed out. 13 MR. HOLLOWAY: I kind of heard that. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, the -- we need to be 15 real careful on the retirement community out there. I know 16 when there was -- that last time it was washed out, 17 especially in Kendall County. We probably need to look at 18 making sure that that area is covered with the -- 19 MR. HOLLOWAY: We'll get with Kendall County 20 and see if they'll honor that same agreement we had the last 21 time. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Hopefully. 23 MR. PATTERSON: Is that -- the temporary 24 bridge is gone? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We think. We're not sure 7-10-02 JCC 16 1 where it went, but it's not -- 2 MR. HOLLOWAY: Still underwater, isn't it? 3 MR. PATTERSON: Not where it's supposed to 4 be? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You can see the railroad 6 cars aren't there. We're not sure where it went, but it's 7 not -- I mean, we're -- hopefully, it's just under a gravel 8 bar. May be in Canyon Lake with everything else from up 9 here. 10 MR. HOLLOWAY: Yeah. The area he's talking 11 about is in Kerr County; it's almost all the way to Comfort. 12 Well, in order to go to these people, you know, you have to 13 go into Comfort and go way back around. I don't know -- 14 what is it, 5 miles, 6 miles out of the way? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's about 20 minutes, 16 actually, but it's a dangerous road. 17 MR. HOLLOWAY: Real crooked road. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Real difficult road to -- 19 MR. HOLLOWAY: And last year, Kendall County 20 responded to that for us. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Primarily. 'Cause it's 22 something we just need to look at, figure out what we're 23 going to do. 24 MR. HOLLOWAY: We'll go over that tomorrow. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: A retirement community's 7-10-02 JCC 17 1 a high percentage of calls. 2 MR. PATTERSON: You bet. 3 MR. HOLLOWAY: Is there any other questions 4 on the EMS portion? The medical director, we're required -- 5 when you run an EMS operation, you're required by law to 6 have a medical director that is in charge -- well, actually, 7 we will run off of his license. So, we have a medical 8 director. And, actually, last year we reduced the amount 9 that -- that the County was paying, because we reduced the 10 salary for the medical director. As you can see, that -- 11 this is not going to change any this year; we'll keep it the 12 same. 13 MR. PATTERSON: I was just about to say -- 14 MR. HOLLOWAY: Right, it was both. I think 15 Ingram also pays a little bit, but a small amount. 16 MR. PATTERSON: How did we figure that 17 number? I'll be honest with you. Like I said, we didn't 18 have a chance to talk, so -- 19 MR. HOLLOWAY: I'll be honest with you, that 20 was finance. Did that when we first did the thing. And we 21 -- that hasn't been changed. 22 MR. TUNE: It was done in '94. That's been 23 so long ago that it was either pro rata share of runs or 24 mileage, and there was some -- 25 MR. HOLLOWAY: And run volume was a big part 7-10-02 JCC 18 1 of it. So, we didn't make that many runs into Ingram. 2 MR. PATTERSON: Has that changed now? 3 MR. HOLLOWAY: We're probably making a few 4 more, but not really too many. 5 MR. PATTERSON: That's something we probably 6 ought to look at. 7 MR. HOLLOWAY: Next year we'll look at that. 8 MR. PATTERSON: Everybody has to pay their 9 fair share. That helps all of us. 10 MR. HOLLOWAY: Right. 11 MR. PATTERSON: Okay. 12 MR. HOLLOWAY: In fact, we were fixing to 13 approach Center Point about paying a share, and then, of 14 course, they went unincorporated, so we don't do that any 15 more. Are there any questions on the medical director 16 portion of it? And the medical director, part of his 17 responsibility is, he has to give C.E. to our paramedics. 18 So he comes down to give C.E. classes to our paramedics, 19 and, of course, the paramedics have to have that C.E. to 20 keep their certification. First Responder program. I am 21 going to turn that over to Kyle, because he is in charge of 22 the First Responder program, and so, you're on board. 23 MR. YOUNG: The First Responder program part 24 of the funding there is a quarter of my salary to organize 25 the First Responders, take care of them, keep their 7-10-02 JCC 19 1 certifications up and train them on a fairly regular basis. 2 We have been doing quite a bit of training. Sometimes they 3 show up; sometimes they don't. So, summer camps are going. 4 A lot of our First Responders are our camp people, so 5 they're -- they haven't been showing up, but they're -- 6 they're assuring me that if we keep going, they will show 7 up. We've -- we've got some very good First Responders. 8 The ones that we do have are very dedicated; they're always 9 on the scene when we need them. 10 Some of the other things that we're looking 11 at, the changes this year, as we said last year, we need to 12 recruit more First Responders. We're fairly short on the 13 First Responders that we do have. A lot of them are -- are 14 firefighters doing this in their off-duty time. There are 15 -- are two zones in the city or in the county that -- that 16 have no First Responders at all, so we want to really try to 17 recruit in those areas. And, as I said last year, we need 18 to probably have an EMT class, and we figured $6,000 would 19 fund an EMT class for 10 people. I've had -- I've got at 20 least that many wanting -- that have called me wanting to 21 take the class. We asked last year for $1,500 for 22 equipment. That has helped us. We had First Responders 23 that were certified, that were wanting to respond that had 24 no equipment, and we've got that out to them and they're 25 responding now. We're also looking at $2,550 for some 7-10-02 JCC 20 1 communications equipment. What we're wanting to do there is 2 a pager-type of radio that is -- is out where, when they're 3 -- when the dispatch sets off their pager, it goes off on 4 their radio, but they still have the ability to talk to the 5 responding units coming in, which we feel is -- is a 6 responder safety issue, because if they're on scene and they 7 need to tell us something, then that helps us. We can get 8 on there, communicate with them, tell them what to do to the 9 patients if it's an advanced care issue. So, that's 10 something that is beginning to get critical. We have no 11 extra pagers for these new people once they come on. 12 So, that's basically the changes that -- that 13 we're asking for this time. The $1,500 in equipment, we try 14 to maintain the equipment that they do have now. A lot of 15 the responders bring their equipment up and we try to repair 16 them with this last money that -- that you allotted for us; 17 we bought a lot of repair equipment to try to repair the 18 equipment instead of having to replace it all the time, and 19 that has worked out really well. A lot of times on a -- 20 say, an O-2 regulator, it gets knocked over and bumped and a 21 gauge breaks. Well, we bought extra gauges instead of 22 buying extra regulators, so that we can just replace that 23 gauge instead of the whole regulator. So, hopefully, we'll 24 be able to keep this equipment in service a lot longer. Any 25 questions on the first one? 7-10-02 JCC 21 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where in the county 2 are you uncovered? 3 MR. YOUNG: Zone 2 -- no, 1, which is south 4 Kerr County out towards River Hills, that way, and then Zone 5 3, which is 16 North. I visited with Comfort Fire 6 Department a couple weeks ago. They're wanting to take the 7 far west end of the county and actually join our First 8 Responder group and respond into the county. They've agreed 9 to do that, and we've also looked at adding another zone up 10 along the interstate, because the zone that that's in, a lot 11 of the Hunt First Responders cover the interstate, and it's 12 hard for them to get around up there. So, we're recruiting 13 some new people along that area that can respond up on the 14 interstate; we're going to create a new zone with that for 15 those people. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Kyle, how many First 17 Responders did you have this time last year? 18 MR. YOUNG: This time last year, we had 15 or 19 16, I do believe. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How many do you have 21 now? 22 MR. YOUNG: We have 20 now. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And in that one-year 24 period, how many of those folks have you certified? 25 MR. YOUNG: I've signed off on six 7-10-02 JCC 22 1 recertifications. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How many would you 4 like to have? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Twenty. 6 MR. YOUNG: Twenty more. Twenty more. These 7 people -- our guys are always real happy to see them there. 8 They can get there and start lifesaving efforts before we 9 can. The brain dies in six to -- you know, four to six 10 minutes. And parts of the county, you know how long it 11 takes us to get there. If these people are out there and 12 they can start getting oxygen to the brain by CPR, by giving 13 oxygen, they can save lives, and they do every day. 14 MR. PATTERSON: You said you had 15 approximately -- I think you said 10 people interested in 16 that class? 17 MR. YOUNG: I've probably got more. 18 MR. PATTERSON: Are those people -- are there 19 names on that list, people who are in those areas? 20 MR. YOUNG: Yes. Yes, a lot of them are 21 volunteer firefighters in those areas that are -- that are 22 currently not medically certified that would love to do it, 23 and they're basically -- they're already in the 24 infrastructure to be able to respond to it. So, just 25 getting them trained and equipped to be on would be a great 7-10-02 JCC 23 1 thing. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Kyle, one issue that 3 keeps coming to me is, supposedly, there's some kind of a 4 program that -- that we could possibly reimburse or pay a 5 volunteer per run. I never have gotten my brain around 6 that, but do you ever intend to look at that as a part of 7 our program? Or -- 8 MR. YOUNG: None of the responders that I've 9 visited with are even interested in that. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good. We'll drop it 11 right there. 12 MR. YOUNG: Seriously, none of them -- I 13 mean, all these people, they want to do it and they're proud 14 to do it. They've never even asked for any type of 15 reimbursement. They've never thought about that. The only 16 thing they've brought up is the training. There is an 17 internet-based C.D. that is fairly cheap. Later on, we 18 might look at some of that. But, really, seriously, they've 19 never approached me with that. They seem to be real happy 20 to do it, as long as we take care of them with equipment and 21 the things that they need. 22 MAYOR FINE: There was a push a few years ago 23 to purchase some of the -- those AED's. 24 MR. YOUNG: Yes, sir. 25 MAYOR FINE: Did that ever happen? Did we 7-10-02 JCC 24 1 ever get my more of those? 2 MR. YOUNG: We've got a few out there. Some 3 of our First Responders have some. We just applied -- Texas 4 Department of Health is going to apply for a huge grant to 5 purchase AED's. We sent off a letter of commitment to them 6 that we justified placing AED's in all the patrol cars, with 7 all First Responders that -- that don't have AED's, and with 8 places inside the City and County buildings. 9 MAYOR FINE: I know -- 10 MR. HOLLOWAY: Seventy-two. 11 MR. YOUNG: Seventy-two, we applied for. So, 12 hopefully, we can make a dent. I'll be real optimistic. I 13 don't know that we'd get that many, but any will help. 14 MAYOR FINE: I know they placed several of 15 them around town there. One's at the golf course and a few 16 other places, and they've been used in -- 17 MR. YOUNG: Right. 18 MAYOR FINE: It definitely works. 19 MR. YOUNG: Any time you can defibrillate a 20 heart when it goes into ventricular fibrillation there -- 21 the earlier you can defibrillate the heart, the better the 22 chances of the patient recovering. 23 MAYOR FINE: What do those things cost? 24 Somebody -- 25 MR. YOUNG: Anywhere from $1,000 to $5,000. 7-10-02 JCC 25 1 MAYOR FINE: Somebody found a good price on 2 them; supposed to be pretty nice ones. 3 MR. YOUNG: You can get them used or 4 refurbished, or they go up to $5,000 or $6,000, depending on 5 what you want on them. 6 MAYOR FINE: Okay. 7 MR. PATTERSON: One-button kick-start. 8 MAYOR FINE: That's right. 9 MR. YOUNG: They're easy; you just push a 10 button and put pads on them, and -- 11 MAYOR FINE: Stand back and watch it work. 12 MR. YOUNG: Anything you can do, it tells you 13 what to do. 14 MAYOR FINE: Just don't hold their hand. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Maybe you could get some with 16 a crank. 17 MAYOR FINE: Don't give anybody any ideas. 18 MR. YOUNG: Okay, thank you. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you, Kyle. 20 MAYOR FINE: That's called fishing gear right 21 there. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's right. 23 MS. SULLIVAN: Could I ask a question? 24 There's something in -- in this whole chapter about a 25 certain team; it's a C.I.S.M. What is that? 7-10-02 JCC 26 1 MR. YOUNG: That's the Critical Incident 2 Stress Management team. 3 MS. SULLIVAN: Okay. 4 MR. YOUNG: It helps our firefighters and 5 First Responders deal with critical incidents that we 6 respond to. 7 MS. SULLIVAN: I remember that. 8 MR. PATTERSON: Yes. That's something that 9 we're looking at. It's proposed in our programs for this 10 next year. And it would be for firefighters, and I believe 11 it would also be for police officers as well. 12 MR. YOUNG: Yes. 13 MR. PATTERSON: So, all of our protective 14 services. 15 MS. SULLIVAN: Thank you. I didn't know what 16 it stood for. 17 MR. PATTERSON: I'll be honest with you. I 18 mean, you know, I'm a real believer in those programs. 19 These people see and deal with them a lot, and these 20 programs work. I mean, people will -- you know, they're 21 back to work, you know, fully functioning. And, you know, 22 otherwise they kind of stuff -- stuff it down inside. And, 23 you know, if you do that, it takes them out of commission 24 right then or six months later, and this is something to 25 really help them with that. It's just -- I think it's a 7-10-02 JCC 27 1 good thing. 2 MAYOR FINE: We're going to set one up for 3 City Council pretty quick. 4 (Laughter.) 5 MR. PATTERSON: Okay. The next area is 6 Prisoner Support. Chuck? 7 MR. DICKERSON: Where's the Sheriff when you 8 need him? Y'all have already listened to this one today; I 9 think he had his budget presentation. So, this basically is 10 the Sheriff advising us that the costs of the jail are going 11 up, and the amount that he is wanting to go up is from 30 to 12 37, which is quite an increase, but apparently he's taking 13 such good care of those prisoners that the costs for housing 14 them overnight and that has gone through the roof. We came 15 up with the 936 number because that's basically what we did 16 last year, so we anticipate putting those same people in 17 jail next year, the same number, and that's the increased 18 amount. 19 MAYOR FINE: When was the last increase? 20 MR. DICKERSON: The last increase? Oh, it's 21 been a long time. 22 MAYOR FINE: So maybe this has been a long 23 time in coming, too. 24 MR. DICKERSON: Right. 25 MR. PATTERSON: When I look back -- I look 7-10-02 JCC 28 1 through the five-year history back on all this stuff as we 2 go through it. I didn't see anything in that window. 3 MR. DICKERSON: Yeah, it's been a long time. 4 We've always -- in the past, have always tried to talk each 5 other out of those kind of increases and that so that we 6 don't -- we don't go and charge the County for executing 7 their warrants, and you don't charge us a whole lot for 8 these prisoners, and that's the kind of battle we've had 9 running for about 26 years that I know of. But this time 10 Rusty really does need some extra money to take care of 11 those people, so I'm not obliged to fight him on that. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That only applies to the 13 misdemeanors. 14 MR. DICKERSON: That's just, yeah, the Class 15 C misdemeanors there that are arrested for city offenses; 16 traffic fines, public intoxication, those type of things. 17 Those people that we arrest for DWI, the County gets all of 18 that money. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Gets all that 20 expense, too. 21 MR. DICKERSON: The County takes care of the 22 expense of those people. We do appreciate that. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably that's why the 24 second number is so much bigger than the first one. 25 MR. DICKERSON: That's right. 7-10-02 JCC 29 1 MR. PATTERSON: Like I said when we started, 2 there's some programs the County carries the lion's share; 3 there's some that the City carries. Just the way it works, 4 but it works out good. Anything else, Chuck? 5 MR. DICKERSON: No. 6 MR. PATTERSON: Let's see. Next one's yours, 7 too. 8 MR. DICKERSON: Okay. Task force. As you're 9 all aware, in January of -- of this year, we came before the 10 different bodies of government asking for permission to 11 apply for grant funds to continue the task force operation. 12 This task force has been in operation since 1987. Since 13 that time, we have -- Kerrville and Kerr County have been 14 the leading agency entities in this thing. We -- we pay the 15 lion's share of the costs, because we pretty much have the 16 most employees involved in it. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How many? How many 18 City guys are on the task force? 19 MR. DICKERSON: Okay. The City has three 20 people on the task force and the County has two people. 21 Fredericksburg -- City of Fredericksburg has two people, but 22 the County -- Gillespie County helps with some kind of 23 salary reimbursement to the City for one of those guys. And 24 the rest of the agencies supply one person. Although each 25 year here lately, the fed has cut the task force funding. 7-10-02 JCC 30 1 Last year it was 13 percent. This year, well, they figure 2 at least 13 or maybe 20 percent. So probably, if that 3 happens again, we're going to have to start cutting 4 personnel, because there's not a whole lot of equipment in 5 these -- in this grant, so we'll have to trim back on -- 6 trim back on the amount of people we have over there. But, 7 basically, this is a good program. It helps the majority of 8 the cases that are generated and benefits the City and the 9 County of Kerr. But the other agencies, like Bandera -- we 10 were just over there working just a few weeks ago, and they 11 would not have the resources at all to be trying to take 12 drugs off the street, and whereas the task force is able to 13 commit a group of guys to go over there and take care of 14 these problems that crop up over there. Down in Kendall 15 County and Boerne, they just don't have the resources. 16 MR. PATTERSON: Last year they looked at a 17 little over $1.2 million worth of seizures, and they've got 18 over a half million logged so far this year. And, if I 19 remember right, like, 120, 130 arrests, somewhere in that 20 neighborhood. 21 MR. DICKERSON: They keep busy. There's lots 22 of work out there. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Actually, we're real 24 fortunate. Our -- I was around when the program came in -- 25 it was the Governor's task force back then. 7-10-02 JCC 31 1 MR. DICKERSON: Right. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And their funding was 3 supposed to have gone down many years ago. 4 MR. DICKERSON: Right. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And we're just now 6 beginning to feel -- 7 MR. DICKERSON: If I can just -- for your 8 information, back in '87 when it first started, the City had 9 five employees. We had the commander and -- and half of the 10 investigators. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's right. 12 MR. DICKERSON: So, the City had a big chunk 13 in that thing, and I believe at that time, though, the 14 County also had two guys in there, so the County's been 15 consistent in their participation level, too. 16 MR. WAMPLER: Chuck, what's the 17 program income? 18 MR. DICKERSON: That's from drug seizures. I 19 mean, the money seized or property that's sold at auction. 20 What you're seeing there is, each year we're winding up 21 using more and more program income to try to keep from going 22 up too much on the different entities for our shares. If we 23 didn't have any program income, then, of course, that 24 $31,000 would have to come from us and these other agencies. 25 MR. PATTERSON: Have to spread out grant 7-10-02 JCC 32 1 match, in other words. 2 MR. DICKERSON: Right. Any other questions 3 on that? 4 MR. PATTERSON: Okay. Thank you, Chuck. The 5 next area is going to be the airport operations, and Megan 6 is here. I will tell you at this time there's an update 7 there, too. We -- we did find out, on the airport, that we 8 did have some damage to one of the buildings during this 9 event. We have reported that. We turned that in. It was 10 just -- it was not -- it was no aviation-related incidents. 11 This was on -- what's the name? 12 MS. CAFFALL: It's the V.A. Products 13 warehouse, and it wasn't -- wasn't extensive. 14 MR. PATTERSON: Yeah. And, again, there was 15 some, but we did get that reported. I just want to let you 16 know. 17 MS. CAFFALL: We had 27 inches of rain at the 18 airport from Saturday morning till Friday afternoon, so we 19 got more at the airport than we got in town. 20 MR. PATTERSON: And we also recently had an 21 incident -- it was Sunday a week ago. There was a -- a 22 Citation jet went off the end of the runway. It was trying 23 to come in, I believe, on the I.L.S. right in the middle of 24 a downpour. And, as you know, it's an older aircraft that 25 doesn't have thrust reversal, and so he was trying to rely a 7-10-02 JCC 33 1 hundred percent on his brakes, and just went right off the 2 end. Thank goodness, there was four souls on board and 3 nobody hurt, except -- other than, I think, probably that 4 pilot's wits. But they -- they did -- they were able to 5 recover the aircraft. The airplane actually just went off 6 the end and sunk in the mud, and they came in with a balloon 7 system where they went underneath it, lifted the plane up, 8 put wood underneath it, rolled it off. It appears the 9 airplane didn't even -- did not have substantial damage. I 10 don't know if it had gear damage or not, but didn't look 11 like it. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Pilot's ego suffered a 13 little bit of damage on that; that's about it. 14 MR. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. So, it was good -- 15 I mean, it turned out okay. But, again, other than that, 16 I'm going to let Megan brief you on the airport operations 17 and go from there. Why don't you come up? 18 MS. CAFFALL: Basically, we're doing okay 19 this year. Our revenues are not what we planned on, but our 20 revenues are doing all right. Our expenses are -- are 21 keeping in line. We have gotten the contract for 22 engineering services, which is a favorable contract. We've 23 been able to do some additional things -- excuse me -- so 24 we're looking forward to next year. I'm being very 25 conservative on our revenue projections. I feel very lucky 7-10-02 JCC 34 1 to have gotten through the last two years without having had 2 to come to you and say I'm out of money. I think that, 3 based on conservative revenue projections, the airport will 4 pay for itself next year. We're looking at the grant match 5 for our capital improvements next year. What the City and 6 County share will be above the operating expenses. Is there 7 anything I'm missing? 8 MR. PATTERSON: Well, in general, I mean, the 9 -- from the number -- looking at the numbers, it's very 10 clear that without the grant matches, the airport's 11 operating in the black, as far as operational costs. That's 12 clear. You can easily remove those numbers, and everything 13 balances. We continue programs here -- you'll recall in 14 FY '02, the current year, there was that obligation to those 15 grants, and then this was -- this is the second half of that 16 where we said, okay, we're going to do Phase I, and this is 17 basically Phase II of that same project schedule. So, this 18 grant match is really just to wrap up what we started in 19 this fiscal year. So, I mean, it -- again, there -- there 20 is no -- this is no new information from what was presented 21 last year, so there's no change to that. We just want to be 22 clear on that. But it's -- but, again, it is a substantial 23 dollar amount. The other thing, too, is -- is that, in 24 addition to these improvements, should you choose to fund 25 these, is that, you know, there's also the -- the sewer line 7-10-02 JCC 35 1 project is under way. That is -- and I won't stick my foot 2 in my mouth. Didn't we just put that out to bid? 3 MS. CAFFALL: We had the prebid conference 4 today. 5 MR. PATTERSON: That's right. So, prebid 6 conference today, so that should be wrapping up very 7 shortly, getting started on that. Obviously, weather 8 permitting. 9 MS. CAFFALL: It would be next week. It 10 begins next week. 11 MR. PATTERSON: So, that project will make a 12 huge improvement as well, which is not part of this grant 13 funding. And, Megan, could I ask you why the T-hangars 14 aren't moving as quick as maybe you would have liked them to 15 move? 16 MS. CAFFALL: Well, you know, that was both a 17 mystery and a disappointment to me that, unfortunately, we 18 opened their doors a month after September 11th, and it did 19 affect our general aviation recreational -- I had four -- 20 four of the people that they were promised to say either, 21 "My wife says..." or the airplane is the first thing that 22 goes. They are filling. We're holding our ground. I've 23 predicted revenues at 50 percent, just to be conservative, 24 because things could get worse, not better. 25 MS. SULLIVAN: Yes, right. 7-10-02 JCC 36 1 MS. CAFFALL: But we are at 75 percent 2 occupancy now, and they are filling with people from out of 3 town. We haven't had a whole lot of local participation in 4 them, because most of our planes here are housed and have 5 chosen to stay housed in larger hangars. It's just a 6 question of time and filling, and also the economy. 7 MR. PATTERSON: The other thing, too, for the 8 current year -- 9 MS. SULLIVAN: Yes. 10 MR. PATTERSON: -- correct me if I'm wrong, 11 but if I remember right, we projected revenue on that 12 facility at 60 or 65 percent occupancy. 13 MS. CAFFALL: 90 percent. 14 MR. PATTERSON: 90? 90 percent. 15 MS. CAFFALL: Last year we were looking for 16 money. I mean, we did not anticipate getting any money from 17 Mooney. Mooney has paid -- they're paying their lease this 18 year, but last year at budget time, we didn't know what was 19 going to happen. And we've also captured some other revenue 20 sources. We made a favorable lease to B.A. Products, which 21 is a nonaviation-related lease. Those people are a business 22 that's not related to aviation and the airport, so that 23 gives you a little bit of stability there. That's a 24 five-year lease. And they have a nice operation. Now, if 25 we look at -- when we get sewer into the facility, at 7-10-02 JCC 37 1 developing that side of the road and offering opportunities, 2 we may get some development in conjunction with the business 3 park across the way. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Megan, do all of our 5 leases out there have COLA triggers, automatic triggers, 6 cost-of-living adjustments? 7 MS. CAFFALL: Yes, sir. And those -- those 8 created more revenue this year as well. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't know whether 10 Larry hears this or not, but -- again, Larry and I both 11 serve on the Airport Board -- but I hear from time to time 12 from aircraft owners and pilots that our fuel charges are 13 not -- our fuel fees, rate per-gallon, is not competitive 14 with other airports. Do you believe that it is? 15 MS. CAFFALL: We have a full-service F.B.O. 16 They pump your gas, they pull your plane out. They give you 17 full-service. That costs you more than flying to 18 Fredericksburg or Castroville, or we have a number of 19 airports that are very close to us that are either 20 subsidized by their cities, sell fuel at cost or at just 21 pennies above cost, because they want to generate traffic at 22 their airport. Our F.B.O. has people that they pay to pump 23 fuel, and we sell four to five times as much jet fuel as we 24 do under low lead. We have a very vocal local general 25 aviation community, and they choose to go elsewhere just to 7-10-02 JCC 38 1 save money, and they save some money. Now, our F.B.O. fuel 2 sales this year, again, I've been conservative at projecting 3 revenues, but we are ahead of last year, and it's 4 predominantly jet fuel. So, it's just -- you can't sell 5 fuel that cheap if you're paying people to pump it. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It's -- I equate it -- 7 and on all the airports I fly to, I pay some attention to 8 the fuel prices, but we're very competitive for the kind of 9 service that we give. There's another aspect of it, too. 10 It's a little bit like some of the people I know who live in 11 Kerrville who say, "Gosh, I go to San Antonio to buy 12 gasoline because it's a nickel a gallon cheaper." 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what I'm 14 talking about. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It's a little bit of 16 that mentality. You've got -- you've got to have a real 17 good reason to go to San Antonio, something other than going 18 to buy gasoline, if you're going to -- 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You think so? 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- spend an hour and a 21 half each way on the road just to go buy a gallon of cheaper 22 gas. So, it's a little bit of that mentality. And some 23 people will do that, thinking that's very cost-effective. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The comparison that's 25 made to me most often is against Fredericksburg. 7-10-02 JCC 39 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Well, it's not a full 2 service F.B.O. 3 MS. CAFFALL: It's not full-service fuel. 4 You get out and you pump your own. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the question. 6 If I hear it again, I'll answer the question. 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: You can say you don't 8 get a red carpet to step on when you go to Fredericksburg. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In other words, they 10 don't wash your windshield. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Don't wash your 12 windshield. 13 MAYOR FINE: It's cheaper to go the 14 self-serve than it is a full-service line. 15 MS. SULLIVAN: Exactly, same thing. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Megan, you mentioned 17 briefly the zoning board out at the airport, the write-up. 18 Can you tell me how's that going to -- when is that going to 19 happen? What are they going to do? And kind of update what 20 that group is and who is going to be on it, how they get on 21 it. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Airport Board. 23 MS. CAFFALL: It is the -- our Airport 24 Advisory Board is also our Airport Zoning Board. The zoning 25 board has power to enact ordinances -- or zoning 7-10-02 JCC 40 1 legislation, and our zoning around the airport will be tied 2 to just every time we meet. It's whenever we get the master 3 plan completed and back from the consultant. It has been 4 through final review at the F.A.A., so we're in the process 5 of getting it back now, but that will generate noise 6 contours that are based on what kind of traffic we get now, 7 what they predict we'll get in 10 years, and we'll probably 8 use the 10-year noise pattern to select land use areas 9 where, if you're within the 60-decibel noise contour, you 10 probably don't want to build a house there. And so we can 11 have zoning ordinances that says you can't build a house 12 there unless you put soundproofing in it. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But what is the aerial 14 extent that the zoning can take place? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Airport property, 16 period. 17 MS. CAFFALL: Well, roughly -- I don't have 18 the -- they didn't give us this pretty noise contour map, 19 but it's not a whole lot bigger than these yellow areas on 20 either end. It follows those contours. It's not as 21 extensive -- it's not going to blanket the whole county on 22 either end. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, it's not like a -- 24 MS. CAFFALL: Uses are pretty close to 25 normal. 7-10-02 JCC 41 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, half a mile around 2 the airport or something like that? It's very specific 3 areas? 4 MS. CAFFALL: It's very specific around the 5 end of the runway. Just for an example, when the Catholic 6 high school looked at -- there was some controversy about 7 them locating their school there, because it was fairly 8 close to the airport. The noise contour would not have 9 prohibited that use at that area, and that's within a mile 10 of the end of the runway. So -- 11 MR. PATTERSON: Just to share something with 12 y'all, I went through -- I was part of a group that did a 13 land -- land use analysis and noise compatibility study on 14 an airport, and just to give you an example, I'll share this 15 with you; I'll pass this around. But this is -- basically, 16 what would be generated is noise contours like you see here. 17 And, generally speaking, on the approach and departure end 18 of the runway is where you're going to get most of the 19 noise, typically. It measures this in what they call LDN, 20 which is basically measurements over time. In other words, 21 it's not a single event, what they call an SEL. A single 22 event level is when a single -- you know, a single event 23 where an individual comes in and lands or takes off. It 24 typically will do this over a period of time, and then you 25 make your land use decisions. So, over time, what's the 7-10-02 JCC 42 1 average noise level in that area? And then they'll make a 2 decision about it. Okay. Well, is that a 65 contour or a 3 55 contour? Those kinds of things. And then, typically, 4 what happens is the F.A.A. has a -- has a chart, and a lot 5 -- most places use this information, and what it does is, it 6 gives you information like, for instance, residential, below 7 65 DNL. Well, that's okay. It says yes; that means 8 residential is good. And then 65 to 70; well, it says no, 9 but it has a comment down here, it's okay if you require 10 residential homes in that area to have noise abatement in 11 them. In other words, additional, you know, thickness on 12 the glass and, you know, additional insulation. But then 13 when it gets to 75 to over 85, it just says no. Doesn't 14 matter how much abatement you do; residential is not 15 appropriate. So, those are the kind of things that, between 16 the F.A.A. regulations and what's going to be produced here, 17 that board will be able to use that information to establish 18 the zoning with it. I'll share this with you. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 20 MR. PATTERSON: Take a look at that. 21 MS. CAFFALL: And there is an opportunity in 22 that process for public hearings and notification and all 23 that. It's something that, once we get that back from -- 24 from our consultant, I'll start the process of that. 25 MR. PATTERSON: But I will tell you that for 7-10-02 JCC 43 1 the future of development in that area, this is an important 2 issue, because once you have the master plan established and 3 you know what those, you know, impacts might be with regard 4 to the noise levels, you want to make sure you have the 5 appropriate zoning there so that you don't get conflicts in 6 the future. The idea is, you create that zoning district so 7 that when the development does occur, that it occurs 8 appropriately. It's either, A, you don't allow certain 9 uses, or B, that if do you allow that use, that it has 10 certain noise abatement associated with it. It will save a 11 lot of grief in the future. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, thank you. 13 MR. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you still 15 anticipate that the fund will be released in August for the 16 fencing project? 17 MS. CAFFALL: That's the latest I hear. This 18 money is set aside. I don't anticipate we won't get it. In 19 our memo there, I'm not hearing good things about getting an 20 entitlement next year. The security issues and everything 21 that's happened with airports in general in the last year 22 has kind of funneled that money elsewhere. 23 MR. PATTERSON: We have some food available 24 for y'all if you want to take a break to do that, or do you 25 want to press on? What would you like us to do? 7-10-02 JCC 44 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Do you want to press on or 2 eat? 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Press on. 4 MR. PATTERSON: Press on? Okay. All right. 5 Community Recycling Center. This area has been very active, 6 and Paul is here to kind of talk to some of this, to tell 7 you the -- I'm still very impressed by the volume that goes 8 through this center. I will tell you that there are a lot 9 of communities in the state of Texas that would kill to have 10 the kind of volume we get diverted out of our landfill, as 11 we're doing here. So, I'll let him talk a little bit about 12 that. Paul? 13 MR. KNIPPEL: Yeah. We do divert a lot out 14 of our landfill, and I think it may not even need to be 15 stated, the importance of the landfill, if you drove around 16 town in this disaster area this week and saw the mounds of 17 trash and the available -- we lost our landfill road, or 18 half of it, for a period of time; we were unable to use the 19 landfill -- the impact that that had on that area on the 20 health and sanitation. So, I don't even think it needs to 21 be said that the landfill's very important to the city of 22 Kerrville and -- and the county. And -- and, in preserving 23 the life span of that landfill, the Community Recycling 24 Center is very important in diverting that base. We had -- 25 we're getting about 300 some-odd cars a day consistently 7-10-02 JCC 45 1 from our hours of operation, Wednesday through Saturday. 2 We had three recycling -- or three special 3 events scheduled last year and this year, and I think we had 4 about six or seven 18-wheelers, the equivalent amount of 5 trash that would fill that, that was taken off just from 6 those three events alone, the -- the computer recycling 7 event, the household hazardous collection, and the paint 8 collection. This -- the number down here is very small 9 potatoes, as we didn't try to show the whole operations 10 expense of the recycling center. That's paid for through 11 the tipping fees collected at the landfill, which county 12 residents pay when they use, haulers pay when they use, city 13 residents pay when they use. But it kind of serves the 14 overall solid waste concept by having this recycling center 15 open and operational. I would like to point something out; 16 that the City, last year, created another position. We -- 17 Megan had a dual personality for the past few years of 18 running the landfill and the -- and the airport. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We've known that for 20 some time. 21 (Laughter.) 22 MR. KNIPPEL: And so, last year, we -- we 23 cleaned that up; we hired David Vasquez back there in the 24 back, who came from -- spent 14 years with Texas Instruments 25 in their environmental area. So, the landfill and the 7-10-02 JCC 46 1 recycling center are getting a lot more attention now. And, 2 you know, I'll use my opportunity here to promote -- we're 3 working toward getting composting operations where we can 4 distribute that to the public. We got a real demand for 5 that right now, particularly from TexDOT using that to 6 revegetate right-of-ways. 7 MR. PATTERSON: Tell them a little bit about 8 what that process is to be allowed to do that. 9 MR. KNIPPEL: Yes. We're using the -- the 10 combination of brush -- chipped up brush and -- and sludge 11 from our wastewater plant. It's been treated. It's gone 12 through some of the normal treatment cycle, and then it goes 13 through temperature and time treatment, which helps take any 14 other -- of the other things in it that might attract vermin 15 and so forth, and mice. But you combine that sludge with 16 the chipped up brush, and it creates something that's a 17 little bit better than just wood chips; it has tackiness to 18 it and will hold to these caliche slopes around here. So, 19 we're pretty -- I'm psyched up about it. I like it, because 20 we have a real problem every time we open a trench around 21 here to put a pipeline in. We -- we can't get anything to 22 grow on it. And TexDOT is very -- Bill Tucker is about half 23 an inch away from requiring it on everything in this 24 right-of-way, and -- which means our community would have to 25 go outside the city, outside of the county to go buy this 7-10-02 JCC 47 1 stuff and truck it in. But our landfill is real close to 2 getting T.N.R.C.C. approval to distribute it, so we're real 3 jazzed about that. Hopefully this year we'll see that come 4 online and make it available, not in small quantities, but 5 probably truckload-type quantities, to people in 6 contracting. 7 But, anyway, all of this kind of works 8 together. The Community Recycling Center is a -- is shared. 9 Whereas the landfill is City-owned, the recycling center is 10 shared with the County. The County owns the land and owns 11 the buildings that are out there, and the $4,500 that we're 12 requesting participation from the County is for repairs to 13 the facility, repairs to the buildings that are owned by the 14 County. Repairs and expansion. We -- you know, we got 300 15 cars that begin to stack up out into Schreiner Street. 16 We're ready to open up another lane. We are getting grant 17 money for a new baler. We've included in our annual fiscal 18 budget this year to put a new driveway in, go from two lanes 19 to three lanes. So, you know, we've -- 20 MR. PATTERSON: This request is a $3,000 21 reduction, both on the City and the County side, from last 22 year's. 23 MR. KNIPPEL: Yes, so we felt justified in 24 this number. 25 MR. PATTERSON: Any questions? 7-10-02 JCC 48 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you, Paul. 2 MR. PATTERSON: Thank you. Library 3 operations. Again, as you well know, we've been spending a 4 lot of time this last year doing a lot of fixing, especially 5 the A.D.A. issues, and a lot of that is well underway and 6 very close to being finished, and I know Antonio will touch 7 on that in just a minute. But, again, this year, we do -- 8 we do show a steady level with regard to the increase, and 9 so there is -- I should say there is none. We've projected 10 this year based on some of the grants that Antonio has been 11 able to obtain, and also some of the things that he's 12 looking at. I'll let him explain a little bit of that to 13 you. Antonio? 14 MR. MARTINEZ: Two hours ago, a giant crane 15 pulled up into the library driveway and downloaded the 16 roofing material. That's, you know, a very welcome 17 activity. 18 MR. BENHAM: Hallelujah. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Little bit late, 20 wasn't it? 21 MR. MARTINEZ: Yeah. The rains did -- we had 22 new water coming in in the same locations, known locations, 23 but a little heavier water coming into the building. So, we 24 were very concerned about the integrity of the roof -- 25 what's left of the integrity of the roof. But, at any rate, 7-10-02 JCC 49 1 two hours ago a giant crane -- giant semi pulled up, and 2 they were downloading the material to the roof as I left the 3 building. That's the last big piece of the renovation of 4 the main building. Front entryway is almost completed. 5 Automatic front doors are installed; a little fine-tuning 6 required there. Handrails for the entryways at the front. 7 The ramps are going up; they still require a little final 8 welding and polishing. Elevator requires an inspection 9 before the rest of the work can be completed, but probably 10 about 90 percent completed. All the work back at the 11 loading dock area, the ramp back there, is probably at about 12 90 percent. 13 So, like I said, the roof is the last cog in 14 the piece of the puzzle left to complete, and then we'll be 15 done with this big renovation project; "big" in terms of the 16 impact it had to traffic, not big in terms of final product. 17 It's definitely required to move forward in terms of being 18 able to do anything with that building to capture new space. 19 As you may recall, that was our big hangup in order to 20 proceed with anything that expanded public areas; we needed 21 to come into compliance, not only with A.D.A., but also 22 safety and zoning and inspection requirements. Any 23 questions on that part of it? 24 Like I said, renovation, that part of it, you 25 know, is jointly funded, City, County, and E.I.C. money. 7-10-02 JCC 50 1 We're about to complete that. We are about to complete the 2 history center. As you know, that requires no City or 3 County contribution. But, here again, upon the very verge 4 of completion, I had the final documents in my hands 5 requiring the last two payments to complete that project, 6 and on Friday of last week, went over to the building and 7 found that we had water damage in there in our brand-new 8 building. It's not huge, but it's disappointing to see, you 9 know, the very nice-looking, big reading room that we had 10 created has a hole in the ceiling and water came in. We've 11 had the insurance adjuster over there yesterday, walked 12 through it very carefully, and I have identified a couple of 13 solutions that, you know, are going to push through. 14 Basically, what we had was a downspout that 15 was only about an inch wide that controlled a lot of water 16 coming off the gutters and off the roof, and it filled up 17 with debris, backed up, flowed into the top floor and down 18 into the bottom floor. Again, that one is almost completed. 19 We were about to sign off on it, and we still hope to finish 20 it up, have it ready for opening the new -- new fiscal year, 21 October 1. There are furnishings to be installed. We've 22 been pulling wire into it, both telephone and data 23 communications, setting up for all the computers and other 24 specialized equipment in that building, and pretty much have 25 all that planned out as how it will proceed, and we'll try 7-10-02 JCC 51 1 to open October 1. Any questions on that part of it? 2 You'll recall that last year, we proposed the 3 new county delivery program. There were some obstacles to 4 getting that off the tracks. We, first of all, had some 5 serious illnesses in the City vehicle preparation 6 department. Our vehicle was not delivered until around the 7 end of May. We have been sending out notices to known 8 residents of those areas. We've talked with a lot of the 9 residents. The Library Advisory Board took a lot of our 10 notices out to the areas where they live, the people that 11 live out in county areas. As you may have seen in last 12 week's Mountain Sun, we had the article there describing the 13 service and asking people to call in and sign up for the 14 service. Unfortunately, we're having a very low response on 15 that so far. We've had a couple of queries. We've had a 16 couple of people pick up the notices, but we have so far 17 only a couple of people there saying they do want the 18 service. We'll continue to push it. We'll continue to 19 advertise it and try to make something happen with that. 20 Any questions on that? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you advertising 22 it through the schools? 23 MR. MARTINEZ: We're going to send out some 24 additional notices through the schools. We did send some 25 out with people we knew had children in those schools, but 7-10-02 JCC 52 1 we'll try to send out some more to the schools. 2 MR. PATTERSON: Based on when they open the 3 doors. 4 MR. MARTINEZ: Right. When they open for the 5 school year, right. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: You might try and see if you 7 could put a flyer in the Meals on Wheels program out in the 8 county, because those people also might be very -- 9 MR. MARTINEZ: Sure. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- prone to use the service. 11 MS. SULLIVAN: Yes, good idea. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: By definition, they can't get 13 out that well. I think this is something that's really 14 worthwhile, but it's going to take a while to develop a 15 constituency and a user base. 16 MR. MARTINEZ: Right. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: I'm thrilled we're underway 18 with it. 19 MR. PATTERSON: I think it will build. 20 MR. MARTINEZ: We're not giving up on it, but 21 the response has been rather disappointing so far. We do 22 have it posted on our web site, also. And perhaps we could 23 forward to it your web site also? 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Surely. 25 MR. MARTINEZ: Post it there. 7-10-02 JCC 53 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Absolutely. 2 MR. PATTERSON: Get a link. That would be 3 good. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you have the ability 5 to track the cost of that program separately? 6 MR. MARTINEZ: Mm-hmm, yes. We did come in 7 under budget on the cost of the vehicle. We were really 8 surprised at how low the price of the vehicle came out. So, 9 that was a savings. That's one -- one of the reasons we are 10 showing a fund balance carrying forward from this year. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Have you hired a 12 part-time individual yet? 13 MR. MARTINEZ: Not yet. I've got -- I'm in 14 conference with our Human Resources Department developing 15 the evaluation and the -- all the different things that go 16 into that position, but we're ready to go deliver, if it 17 comes down to that. I mean, we can -- 18 MR. PATTERSON: Current staff's handling it 19 right now. 20 MR. MARTINEZ: With current staff, we can go 21 ahead and deliver if we do get people that are solidly, you 22 know, desiring the service. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm just wondering 24 about the advertising, if it gave an anticipated start date 25 when the service is going to begin. 7-10-02 JCC 54 1 MR. MARTINEZ: What we did is we asked people 2 to go ahead and tell us they wanted the service, and then we 3 would contact them to establish when they wanted to start. 4 So, it's open to start whenever the individual desires. As 5 of this moment, we could, you know, go ahead and go deliver 6 to someone if they so desired. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A lot of times when 8 people see the service has begun, they see the van parked in 9 those locations, that triggers their desire to participate. 10 MR. MARTINEZ: Right. Well, like I said, 11 we've only had one response saying, "Yes, I do want service" 12 so far. Anything else on current or previous programs? 13 I'll go ahead to the proposed new programs. Little bit of 14 history on automated library system. The cost you see 15 there, $150,000, we have in-hand a very extensive study by 16 an automation consultant. The Friends of the Library funded 17 that, and there are quite a few formulas that are used to 18 figure out the size of a new system. One of them is that 19 for every user -- every concurrent user that you have on 20 this system, your cost is about $3,500. We're designing the 21 system to support approximately 43 concurrent users, which 22 would be more than twice the current number. Our present 23 system's limited to only so many concurrent users, and this 24 would more than double our ability to support concurrent 25 users or people tapping into that automated system in any 7-10-02 JCC 55 1 shape or form, including staff and public. 2 We did apply for a very large grant together 3 with Schreiner University. We did get approval on that 4 grant, and I'm counting on part of that money to pay part of 5 the hardware costs for this system. That would give us -- 6 the configuration we're going for is called a client server 7 architecture. And we can probably buy 70, 80 percent of the 8 client server stations required for that configuration using 9 some of that grant money. We have other donations, other 10 grant moneys that would basically pay for most -- probably 11 95 percent of the hardware costs of any automated system, 12 leaving only the software licensing and software maintenance 13 issues to cover. Due to the fund balance we are carrying, 14 this shows a net zero contribution from either City or 15 County. We can pay with existing money for the system. I 16 don't think -- 17 MR. PATTERSON: That includes the grant money 18 and the trade-in that -- 19 MR. MARTINEZ: Whatever trade-in ability we 20 have, right. Actually, it's a discount more than a 21 trade-in. You know, I call it trade-in, but, I mean, there 22 is a value to the existing system, and that value would 23 disappear shortly. 24 MR. PATTERSON: The current -- the current 25 system, as you well know, when you buy software systems, you 7-10-02 JCC 56 1 know, a company will support it for so many years and then 2 they stop the support. That's what's about to happen here. 3 And it will be -- I mean, if it breaks, we just don't have 4 anybody to service it. 5 MR. MARTINEZ: Currently, we're very popular 6 with automation vendors. I get at least one call a week, 7 sometimes two or three, and they're all wanting to offer us 8 deals that we wouldn't get if the system were already phased 9 out. That's the discount or the trade-in value that I see 10 in it. 11 MR. WAMPLER: What would be the ongoing 12 license costs of the software license? 13 MR. MARTINEZ: No higher than present. It 14 would be approximately what we're paying right now, in the 15 neighborhood of $27,000 a year, when you add up all the 16 different components. 17 MR. WAMPLER: Even for a double number of 18 stations? 19 MR. MARTINEZ: Right. These would be easier 20 to maintain. 21 (Discussion off the record.) 22 MR. PATTERSON: You have lower hardware 23 costs, and also you have more access to the software through 24 that system, versus where it used to be. In the older 25 system, you have basically a piece of software for each one. 7-10-02 JCC 57 1 That's not the case any more. 2 MR. MARTINEZ: A mainframe setup is a lot 3 more expensive. Any questions on that one? The other one 4 is, to us, a fairly small adjustment, recognizing the added 5 responsibilities that have developed for a position at the 6 library where we have a person running a major division of 7 the library, and currently that person was at 30 hours. 8 She's announced her retirement -- she's actually retired 9 now, and it would be next to impossible to find a 30-hour 10 librarian to run that complex an operation for the library, 11 and so we ask for an adjustment to make that a full-time 12 position to recognize the level of responsibility involved, 13 and to have that person come on board as a -- as a 14 full-timer, rather than a part-time person. 15 MR. PATTERSON: We also looked at -- whenever 16 we look at positions, we also -- we do an examination of, 17 you know, how much overtime hours are having to be worked to 18 cover, you know, what -- how many F.T.E.'s are you talking, 19 and with the volume that's going through the library and the 20 number of hours worked, total employee force, we felt like 21 this did justify itself. So, that's the reason. 22 MR. MARTINEZ: Very briefly, to touch on 23 volume, at work Saturday and Sunday, the combined gate count 24 for this past Saturday and Sunday was 850 people. And, you 25 know, the people did not stay away from the library during 7-10-02 JCC 58 1 the flooding. We had the same or higher numbers, actually, 2 during the flooding. So, we just continue to see huge 3 turnout and use of all services. Any other questions? 4 That's pretty much it for us. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Antonio, Joe appeared 6 before the Commissioners Court today on behalf of the 7 Friends of the Library and did a wonderful job. I had a 8 question for him, and I really didn't take it as far as I 9 wanted to, so I'd like to ask you. 10 MR. MARTINEZ: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We were talking about 12 your librarians being great and how educated they are. 13 MR. MARTINEZ: Right. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I really want to go a 15 step further. How many have Master's degrees? 16 MR. MARTINEZ: Let me think. Six or seven. 17 Let's see, let me do a head count. One, two, three, four -- 18 five have degrees, and one works in a position that would 19 normally require a degree. So, we have six people that 20 should be; one is not. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know of 22 another operation in town like that. That's fantastic. 23 MR. MARTINEZ: Quite frankly, where we're 24 hurting right now is lack of clerical help. You know, we're 25 doing pretty good at the librarian level, but since we do 7-10-02 JCC 59 1 have so many specialized areas, we do need those librarians, 2 but clerical help is where we're hurting. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 4 MR. MARTINEZ: Mm-hmm. 5 MAYOR FINE: Joe has something to add to 6 that. 7 MR. BENHAM: I thank you. Former mayor told 8 me earlier today that citizen input on a budget around here 9 is almost unheard of, so I hope you'll allow this citizen to 10 say something. I don't want to duplicate anything Antonio 11 said. I'm -- for the record, since she's copying this down, 12 I'm Joe Benham. I'm president of the Friends of the 13 Library. We are very supportive of Antonio. We think we're 14 extremely fortunate to have a man of his capability and 15 qualifications. We're very appreciative of his staff. We 16 do have two concerns that I would like to share with you and 17 urge you to take into consideration, both this year and in 18 years to come. One he's alluded to is the personnel area. 19 Folks, these people are working themselves to death over 20 there. There are lines morning, noon, and night in that 21 library of people waiting to check out books. There are 22 lines at the reference desk, and we had a big -- took a big 23 hit when Herb, our veteran reference librarian, left. And 24 last time I talked to Antonio about it, we were having some 25 trouble finding the capability of reference librarian that 7-10-02 JCC 60 1 we need. 2 As you probably know, there is a nationwide 3 shortage of librarians, and the law of supply and demand 4 applies in Kerrville just like it does anywhere else. We -- 5 we are very concerned. We know of people who had -- who had 6 not planned to leave as early as they are who are simply 7 burned out. Antonio has shared with us -- and I don't want 8 to be an alarmist, but Antonio has shared with us that if 9 the departures continue and if qualified replacements are 10 not found, we may be looking at curtailing the evening hours 11 of the library. This is a particular concern -- well, it's 12 a concern for everybody, but it's a particular concern for 13 people who live out in the county, 'cause they start down to 14 the center of town when they get off work at 5 o'clock, and 15 if the library's going to close at 6:00, that doesn't give 16 them much time to get their work done at the library. We're 17 also concerned, certainly, about the accessibility of the 18 library for students. Antonio's done a great job of 19 juggling personnel and hours and keeping the library open on 20 nights and Sundays. The library I worked with before I 21 moved up here was open one night a week and was not open on 22 Sundays, and there were a lot of unhappy patrons about that. 23 But Antonio's managed to do it up to now, but he can't keep 24 the library open, obviously, if he doesn't have the 25 personnel. 7-10-02 JCC 61 1 The other area is the automation system, 2 which he referred to. The Friends of the Library are 3 funding that study. We've allocated $9,000 for that; it 4 isn't costing the taxpayers of either the city or county a 5 penny. But, that -- the results of that survey, as he's 6 indicated, are certainly going to -- to show a need for a 7 very extensive upgrade of our automation system. Antonio's 8 indicated he thinks that grants and some other funds that we 9 get, some bequests and that sort of thing, may cover it, and 10 I hope he's right. But if they don't, we really urge you to 11 find the money, because the most recent figures I have, we 12 had 150,000 visits to that library last year. That's 13 considerably more than the population of Kerr County. We 14 circulated 200,000 units of books and periodicals and so 15 forth. There were 25,000 telephone requests. Those 16 reference lines are busy all the time, with people calling 17 up and asking for information over the phone, and a 1980's 18 vintage information system simply isn't going to meet the 19 needs for that -- that kind of traffic. So, if Antonio has 20 to come to you and say, "I've got to have more money, 21 because those grants weren't enough to pay for what we have 22 to have," I sincerely hope you'll be able -- and our board 23 and our membership certainly hope you'll be able to do that. 24 I'll take just one more minute of your time, 25 if you'll allow me, and point out that we, the Friends of 7-10-02 JCC 62 1 the Library, are putting our money where our mouth is. In 2 addition to the $9,000 that I mentioned, we -- excuse me -- 3 we routinely donate $20,000 a year to the library to cover 4 things like the large-print book purchases, which are a very 5 big item, given the demographics of this community. There 6 are a lot of us old people who don't see as well as they 7 once did. We fund the reading program, which is primarily 8 for children in the summer, the Discover lectures, and the 9 -- give Antonio some leeway in buying whatever he has to 10 have for the library that he can pay for out of what's left 11 of that $20,000. 12 Our biggest accomplishment, as you probably 13 know, in recent years, we raised $351,000 from -- primarily 14 from foundations, and we contributed $9,000 of our own money 15 over and above the $20,000 routine contribution to purchase 16 the building next door to the library for future expansion. 17 So, the community is -- we are doing everything we can to 18 support this library, but our funds aren't unlimited any 19 more than yours are. So, we simply ask that when Antonio 20 does come to you and says I've got to have more money to do 21 the things that will keep this library up to the 22 tremendously high standards that it has had, that you will 23 be able to support those requests. And we will continue to 24 do everything we can as a private organization to support 25 the library. I'm grateful for your time. If I can answer 7-10-02 JCC 63 1 any questions you may have about what we do or why we feel 2 the library is so terribly important to this community and 3 this county, I'll be happy to try to do it. Thank you very 4 much. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you, Joe. 6 MAYOR FINE: Thank you, Joe. 7 MR. PATTERSON: Thanks. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Before we move on, 9 Judge, I'd like to ask Ron what -- just sort of an 10 expression or two about Point Number 3 on the new program. 11 Joe gave us a pretty good segue into that. 12 MR. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. One of the things 13 that we are doing is -- as you well know, there was a study 14 done on the library that was interesting. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: To say the least. 16 MR. PATTERSON: To say the least. One of the 17 things that we're in the process of doing is dusting that 18 thing off, you know, and making sure -- first of all, there 19 -- some of the information, quite frankly, needs to be 20 updated. Some of it needs to be corrected, especially in 21 light of some of the revisions that have happened here 22 recently, A.D.A. and those kind of things. But even beyond 23 that, there's some things in there that need to be reworked. 24 One of the things that we want to do is take a hard look at 25 what would it take to add actual floor space? Not -- not -- 7-10-02 JCC 64 1 you know, we had to get over the A.D.A. hump and all that, 2 but we're talking about actually bookshelf space. What 3 would it take to be able to do that? And that's part of 4 what we would like to be able to do this year, is focus on 5 that and to do that. 6 One of the things that we would also have to 7 do in that process is to take a look at that whole area. 8 When I say "that area," I mean the library to the history 9 center and everything in between, and all the way back, how 10 that area might best be used. And that -- that ranges from, 11 you know, what -- a plan. The bottom line is to come up 12 with a master plan for that whole area, now that the 13 building is owned, you know, by the City and -- and it was 14 purchased by the -- you know, with the Friends' money and 15 others. I mean, bottom line is -- is that we need to figure 16 out what is the game plan for that and what kind of 17 expansions or what kind of changes need to occur to be able 18 to service the area. So, that's what we're talking about 19 with that item, sir. That's going to be a lot of work. 20 Does that answer the question, sir? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. Yes, 22 thank you very much. 23 MR. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. 24 MR. MARTINEZ: Could I add one more thing, 25 Ron? 7-10-02 JCC 65 1 MR. PATTERSON: Yes. 2 MR. MARTINEZ: In relation to that question, 3 I've just identified a state grant program; it just came -- 4 just came to my attention. I'm going to investigate that 5 for the possibility of paying for a facilities study. This 6 state program will fund historic community building 7 renovations for expansions or so forth. I think we have 8 that qualification. 9 MR. PATTERSON: Oh, yeah, possible. That 10 would be great. Any other questions on the library before 11 we move on? 12 Okay. Animal Control and Tax Collection. 13 Again, the Animal Control function is managed primarily by 14 the County, and it's something that they have some kind of 15 an agreement with the City. And, according to that 16 agreement, it is a pro rata basis based on percent of the 17 shelter operation costs. That is actually, then, funded 18 through the City through that -- that particular -- that 19 particular participation calculation. Say that three times 20 fast. 21 (Laughter.) 22 MR. PATTERSON: There is a request for an 23 increase there this year, and that is on the operations 24 side -- I apologize, I should have left this open here -- in 25 that area. There is a -- there is a change there of about 7-10-02 JCC 66 1 $4,200 additional charges. Overall, in the budget there, 2 you'll see -- if you look on that Section 2, it shows that 3 there is a -- a $27,000 reduction on the County side; 4 however, what that is, is that last year there was a capital 5 purchase made that was in that budget, and it's not there 6 this year. I believe it was a truck; is that right? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's right. 8 MR. PATTERSON: So that's the difference 9 there. That's what that change is there. There's no change 10 in terms of the operational perspective on -- on the County 11 side there. Again, we -- we've looked through that, and 12 this is the total budget, then, you know, when you put that 13 together for that operation. I don't know if there is any 14 other revenue sources there from other agencies, but the 15 bottom line is, that is the budget, and then this would be 16 the portion appropriated to the City with the Animal Shelter 17 operations. 18 On the tax collection, that is a very 19 straightforward calculation with regard to -- we use a 20 calculation; it's 1 percent of tax revenues collected. I 21 mean, it's very straightforward. And this number, there is 22 no change proposed to the percent in the calculation. 23 However, obviously, it's going to go up, both City and 24 County, with regard to -- you know, if the tax values go up, 25 we'll pay a little bit more, 'cause it's based on that 7-10-02 JCC 67 1 value. And I jumped through those really quick, but are 2 there any questions on either one of those? 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Not from us. 4 MR. PATTERSON: Okay. Potential new 5 programs, future considerations, those type things, I can 6 kind of touch on. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Ron? 8 MR. PATTERSON: Yes, sir? 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: The Mayor and I would like to 10 suggest that we go in -- I don't know if you plan to bring 11 the food in, or perhaps we'd go and get a plate and come 12 back and -- 13 MR. PATTERSON: Yes, sir, that's the way we 14 had it set up. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: And talk about potential new 16 programs as we eat. 17 MR. PATTERSON: Great. Sounds wonderful. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Why don't we take a break at 19 this time and go fill our plates and come back and take our 20 places, and we'll push through the new programs. 21 MR. PATTERSON: Sounds great. 22 (Discussion off the record.) 23 (Recess taken from 5:32 p.m. to 5:45 p.m.) 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Ron? 25 MAYOR FINE: Ready to crank it up? 7-10-02 JCC 68 1 MR. PATTERSON: Oh, okay. 2 MAYOR FINE: Are you going to eat? 3 MR. PATTERSON: After we get done. 4 MAYOR FINE: Okay. 5 MR. PATTERSON: I got one in there, 6 squirreled one away. 7 MAYOR FINE: All right. 8 (Discussion off the record.) 9 MR. PATTERSON: Last -- actually, this -- 10 actually, the first two there we actually started talking 11 about last year, and quite frankly, they kind of -- they 12 kind of fizzled on us. As far as the municipal court, we 13 picked that up and started looking at it, and let me kind of 14 explain what we're talking about here so everybody 15 understands, a refresher. There was the discussion about 16 the potential of the -- of possibly taking the -- the 17 municipal operation and somehow combining that into the 18 county court system. You know, and we kind of looked at it 19 from different ways, and, quite frankly, it -- it really 20 doesn't work as a partial thing. You know, it -- it's one 21 of those things that, if you don't jump in it with both 22 feet, it probably won't work. Do you know what I mean? 23 With -- with the departure of our City Attorney and -- and 24 other issues, quite frankly, it did not get analyzed very 25 well, to be very honest with you. This is one of the things 7-10-02 JCC 69 1 that -- that was put back on here to -- to talk about just 2 one more time to make sure that the interest was still 3 there. 4 I can tell you, from a staff perspective, the 5 interest is still there about looking at it, you know, and 6 taking a hard look at it. I know that we -- we currently 7 still have a -- where'd he go? Anyway -- he's gone. We 8 currently have an interim City Attorney, and we're in the 9 process of bringing someone on board full-time, and, you 10 know, we'll be doing that here shortly. But once that 11 happens, I would like to go ahead and take another run at 12 looking at this, and so I'll just open that up for 13 discussion. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: A great man once said, 15 "What problem would that fix?" And that is -- that is the 16 question that I would have from -- for the County's side. 17 If we was to take -- take that -- take that over and put it 18 in the County system, what problem would that fix for us? 19 Personally, I don't see any, but -- it's a question. 20 MR. PATTERSON: Sure. To be very frank with 21 you, I -- I think the big fix, in terms of being able to 22 handle the load, you know, we -- the City would benefit, 23 obviously, to be very frank with you, about the ability to 24 be able to have that operation in one location. But, in 25 addition to that, I think the other thing is -- is that with 7-10-02 JCC 70 1 regard to -- to citations, with regard to any type of court 2 action, with regard to whether -- again, whether it's a 3 prosecution of any kind of court case, whether, you know, it 4 would be a Class C misdemeanor or whatever, we'd have one 5 central location for all of our judicial system within the 6 county. And, you know, again, we know that, you know, 7 within the county, we probably -- along with the County, if 8 you put us together, we probably have the most case load. 9 And if you look at the rest of the county between Ingram and 10 Center Point, et cetera, it would be a place where we could 11 combine all of that effort. I mean, again, I -- the other 12 thing that I think it would also do is, in terms of -- with 13 the citizens, they would know there's just one place to go 14 to take care of all of that business. Whether you're paying 15 a citation or D.P.S., you know, writes you, or if it's -- 16 you know, Sheriff writes you or City writes you, you have 17 one place to go to get that service. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I have to admit, 19 these guys let me be the hall monitor of the courthouse on 20 occasion, and a lot of our traffic are people looking for 21 your municipal court. 22 MR. DICKERSON: 'Cause people go to the 23 courthouse looking for a court. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's really a -- it doesn't 25 solve a problem for the County, because we don't have a 7-10-02 JCC 71 1 problem with the City's municipal court operation, 2 obviously. It -- if it's able to be accomplished, it 3 benefits the citizens of Kerr County. And, indirectly, 4 it -- it aids some of our County employees, the J.P.'s in 5 particular, and their clerks. And right now our J.P.'s, on 6 their rotation, they magistrate all of the city cases. 7 Every -- every citizen that's arrested by a City of 8 Kerrville police person, and that's approximately half of 9 the arrests a year, gets magistrated by one of our four 10 J.P.'s. The municipal judge does not take a turn at 11 magistrating. He does not take a turn in the rotation 12 during inquests and things like that, does not get called 13 out in the middle of the night to magistrate. The J.P.'s 14 would expect to be compensated for additional work that they 15 take on. I think the J.P.'s have the time to take on the 16 additional work if they decide to. This is obviously 17 something they'd have to sign up to, but it would be an 18 opportunity for them to get -- to certainly get compensated 19 for services that are already provided. One thing that we 20 do well is courts. We have eight of them in Kerr County, 21 not counting the two municipal courts, so while it may not 22 solve directly a burning problem for the County, it 23 certainly is a benefit to the citizens of Kerr County 24 overall, and is also an avenue whereby some of our elected 25 officials can get compensated for services that they're 7-10-02 JCC 72 1 already providing right now. 2 MS. SULLIVAN: It also frees up some -- 3 MR. PATTERSON: And on the -- on the City 4 side, that it also takes us -- that complete court operation 5 out of the building where it is right now. 6 MS. SULLIVAN: Yes. 7 MR. PATTERSON: We're racking and stacking. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see that. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It seems to me that -- 10 and I share some of Commissioner Baldwin's concerns about, 11 you know, let's make sure we know what we're fixing before 12 we fix it. But -- but I think there's -- there's probably 13 some merit, enough merit to it, that -- that this is one of 14 those things that probably is an ideal issue to be addressed 15 by some kind of joint task force, because it obviously is 16 going to take legal minds on making sure we do it correctly 17 in the legal sense. It needs a little budgetary work on who 18 would pay who and how do you allocate costs and all that 19 kind of thing. 20 MR. PATTERSON: Yes, sir. 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And we probably can't 22 answer that here tonight, obviously, but it's something that 23 perhaps some kind of task force made up of those kinds of 24 people, budgetary and -- and administrative and legal, could 25 sit down and probably work out something pretty quick. At 7-10-02 JCC 73 1 least come up with some options and see what it would do to 2 costs for all the entities involved and so on, and come back 3 to this forum, perhaps, for further discussion. But I 4 just -- I think we need to know more about it. But it's 5 obviously got some very good points to it that have already 6 been touched on. 7 MR. PATTERSON: I believe if we could 8 commission that group -- and, again, we can do that off-line 9 from here, but get that going so that -- you know, we're 10 trying to do these meetings twice a year now, so that by 11 that next meeting, which is our off -- quote, unquote -- 12 budget meeting, that we could have those discussions, get 13 ready for it, so that when the budget rolls around, we could 14 step right -- you know, step right into it and be prepared 15 to do that. Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Be good to have a J.P. 17 sit on it. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yeah. 19 MAYOR FINE: The primary thing is if the 20 J.P.'s are willing to do it. That comes first. 21 (Discussion off the record.) 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: But I just think that 23 that's an ideal thing, for some kind of joint task force 24 type approach to come up with that. 25 MR. PATTERSON: We will work with you to try 7-10-02 JCC 74 1 and formulate who there should be and who should sit on it. 2 We'll jointly make that decision and get that put together. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay, that's good. 4 MR. PATTERSON: Okay. The other issue is -- 5 I was going to catch Dane -- nevermind. The other issue is 6 on the plat review. As you know, the Legislature this last 7 year passed some legislation that basically says that we've 8 got to have, you know, a single point of review, and -- when 9 we're talking about County and City, et cetera. The 10 interesting point of that, after reviewing it, is there is 11 no penalty provisions right now, so that's good news, 12 because otherwise we would be getting penalties. The -- the 13 thing of it is -- is that right now, we are -- as you well 14 -- you may be aware, last night the Council adopted the 15 Comprehensive Master Plan, so that portion of that is now 16 done. Right now, what we're doing as well is we're spinning 17 up the second phase of that project, which is rewriting our 18 zoning regulations and our zoning ordinance and our 19 subdivision regulations. That is going to be a key element, 20 where we need to make sure that those work in conjunction 21 with what the County has in making sure that all of our 22 regulations match up so that we can make this process happen 23 properly. 24 Talking with Tim Dolan, who is working with 25 our consultant who's helping us with that, what we would 7-10-02 JCC 75 1 like to be able to do is -- you know, County Engineer and 2 other individuals that we can work with and talk with about 3 those regulations and make sure that as we go through this 4 process of rewriting those, that we also have a relationship 5 with you to make sure that those -- those run together, so 6 that one's not going off course from the other. Yes, sir? 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, you all can have 8 separate zoning requirements in the ETJ than you do in the 9 city; they don't have to be the same. After our meeting in 10 January, Franklin Johnston, our engineer, and Tim sat down 11 and started going through the two sets of regulations, your 12 current ETJ regulations and our county regulations, and were 13 making good progress. And as the Master Plan ramped up, 14 rightfully, it was decided to suspend that effort until you 15 all redid your zoning regulations. Under the law, there are 16 four options. One, the County can do it all, which is not 17 acceptable to you all. Number two is the City can do it 18 all, which is not acceptable to us. We can divide it up 19 geographically, which makes no sense, or we can come up with 20 a -- a common set of zoning regulations that both bodies 21 agree on that are approved by the single, one-stop shop, 22 which is what we're in the process of -- of developing with 23 Ingram, and we're actually fairly far along with that. The 24 fourth option clearly is where we would like to go. 25 So, you know, as you all do your zoning 7-10-02 JCC 76 1 regulations, the ones that we're concerned with are the ETJ 2 ones. And, you know, as I expressed in January, our 3 principal concern there is roads, drainage, and the water 4 availability. Your street requirements are different than 5 ours. If -- if your street requirements are the 6 requirements in the ETJ, they include curbs and gutters, but 7 the County could end up having to maintain a road with curbs 8 and gutters, where we don't require that out in the county, 9 simply because the developer in the ETJ can put in the plat 10 that the road is to be County-maintained, and, if approved 11 that way, then we would have the responsibility for it. So 12 I don't think it's a complicated process, but it's a process 13 that is going to take a little -- little massaging. 14 MR. PATTERSON: Yeah, 'cause those issues 15 that you talked about are exactly the ones that I think Tim 16 and the engineer were talking about. Those are the first 17 ones that popped up, you know, trying to come into that 18 commonality of, you know, what is the standard going to be, 19 and, you know, establishing that. Like I said, that would 20 be -- that will be the part where we have to come up with 21 that, figure out which way it's going to -- going to go. 22 And, again, as you said, that process started, but kind of 23 took a step back. What I'm saying now is -- is that now 24 they need to step back into it, because that -- it's time 25 now that we're at this point, and this is the appropriate 7-10-02 JCC 77 1 time to get that going again. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: You never know, the 3 next Legislature may put some penalties on -- in that law. 4 Hope they don't make it retroactive. 5 MR. PATTERSON: Yeah, no kidding. I don't -- 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Can't put ex post 7 facto on us. 8 MR. PATTERSON: I'll write myself a note here 9 real quick. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the timetable on 11 the rewrite of the zoning ordinances and subdivision rules? 12 MR. PATTERSON: Well, I know the Planning 13 Department would like to have it done, you know, sometime by 14 Christmas. I'll be surprised if we get it done by then. I 15 think it's -- you know, I think we might be able to, but 16 with everything else that's going on, you know, I'm not 17 quite sure. But that was the time frame that they were 18 shooting for. 19 MAYOR FINE: The City Attorney, when he gets 20 here, that's probably going to be his first major task. 21 MS. SULLIVAN: Yes. 22 MAYOR FINE: And I'm not saying that slows it 23 down, but it was kind of inconvenient. We tried to talk 24 Kevin into staying for a few months and finishing it. 25 MS. SULLIVAN: Yes, we did. 7-10-02 JCC 78 1 MAYOR FINE: You know, that's -- that is one 2 of the delays right now also. 3 MS. SULLIVAN: Right. 4 MAYOR FINE: Mike would be great -- I mean, 5 Mike would be very capable of handling it, but I think, you 6 know, we're going to hold off, and when the City Attorney 7 walks in the door, that will be his -- his first major task, 8 I guess, if that's way to put it. 9 MR. PATTERSON: Yeah, Mike is working with 10 the consultants right now on getting the program set up and 11 the best way to do that and how the information's going to 12 flow, but the actual wordsmithing part of it has not started 13 yet. Right now, other than the -- the process, the other 14 piece that's being analyzed right now is going through the 15 detailed analysis of what's on the books today. You got to 16 figure out where you are so you can figure out where to go, 17 and that's what we're doing at this point in time, 'cause 18 there's not -- in addition to all of this, trying to 19 coordinate this, we've also got all the issues with regard 20 to making sure that all the holes we've got -- you know, we 21 plug all the holes and that it all matches up with the 22 comprehensive plan within the rewrite. So, that's a very, 23 very detailed process, and that's going to take a while. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ron kind of related to 25 that, but even more so, I know the comprehensive plan has a 7-10-02 JCC 79 1 lot of, I guess, recommendations of things to happen, such 2 as, you know, there's going to be transportation -- there's 3 a recommendation to form a committee of County and City and 4 TexDOT to look at master road plans, things of that nature. 5 How is the City planning to go through the master plan, find 6 all that stuff that involves the County, and come to the 7 County and see what we want to do? 8 MR. PATTERSON: Right. Well, there's two -- 9 two pieces to that. One is, the Council is looking at 10 developing an implementation committee who's going to review 11 and look at that and monitor it and see how we're 12 progressing. I will say that, you know, going ahead and 13 funding and getting this rewrite done is one big step toward 14 that. But also, in addition to that, as part of this 15 process where they're looking at the implementation 16 committee part of it, what the staff is going to be doing is 17 pulling out, you know, pieces of -- you know, here's 18 basically an action plan. You know, our -- we've got the 19 document now; here's what we've got to do. What makes 20 sense? First, second, third, fourth, that kind of thing, 21 and we'll be presenting that. 22 That will also entail identifying the 23 agencies that we need to coordinate with, because there's 24 also -- in that same document with the County, it also 25 speaks to, you know, the hospital with some issues. It also 7-10-02 JCC 80 1 talks about, like, with Dietert Claim and things like that. 2 So, we've got to pull all of that together. That won't take 3 us very long, but -- but, again, we -- we were being very 4 careful not to try and get the cart in front of the horse to 5 say, "Well, here's a document. Oh, by the way, we already 6 knew it was going to be so-and-so." But -- you know, but 7 we're -- that is being worked on, and we will be making 8 those contacts. It may be a little bit -- it won't be, 9 like, in a couple weeks, but within the next couple months. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 11 MR. PATTERSON: And the implementation 12 committee that the Council spoke about last night, that will 13 happen probably -- probably that will be formed prior even 14 to all of that coming together, 'cause that committee needs 15 to be a part of that. Does that make sense? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, thank you. 17 MR. PATTERSON: Okay. Okay. Exhibition 18 Center. I know that the County has been working on some new 19 and revised plans and some new ideas. I know that there was 20 a meeting -- was it a month ago now? I'm losing track of 21 time. May have been two months ago now. There was a 22 revised plan that was discussed about the issue of the Ag 23 Barn and an Exhibition Center, I think, or exhibit center, 24 kind of how that was formed -- or exhibit-slash-conference 25 center. And out of that meeting, I know there was some 7-10-02 JCC 81 1 discussion about potential of participation and those type 2 things, and the mayor had asked that we begin to take a look 3 at, you know, crunching numbers and those kinds of things 4 and looking at it. But I wanted -- I thought that -- and I 5 think y'all thought it was important to put this on here so 6 we can open this dialogue again, and that way I can get some 7 additional direction. So, with that, I'll open it back up. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, we've progressed since 9 that meeting, but we haven't come to any final decision. I 10 think the -- the schedule is to try to have another very 11 serious go at that on the 22nd. Jonathan, is that -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Hopefully the 22nd. But 13 as every day goes by, more meetings take place, that date 14 looks harder and harder to meet. But, anyway, I think we're 15 close, and I think the plan that I think Commissioner 16 Williams and I will be presenting to the Court is going to 17 be similar to what was presented last time. The idea is 18 that there's going to be a -- a remodel; basically take down 19 the old hog barn area, put a new -- a new barn there, 20 upgrade the other barn areas. And then, on that same 21 property, but not necessarily -- but not connected, would be 22 an exhibit hall area that's going to probably be about the 23 size of the current exhibit hall. The idea is that that 24 meets the County's needs, period. If the City -- and 25 hopefully the City will do this -- wants -- looks at this 7-10-02 JCC 82 1 and says, this is an opportunity for the -- to get a 2 convention -- small convention center-type building, exhibit 3 hall, whatever you want to call the building, the City could 4 participate and add on to what the County is going to, you 5 know, have, and get a facility that is much -- you know, 6 much -- I guess more uses available to the community. But I 7 think the plan that I see coming out of the Court, really, 8 right now is more a replacing and upgrading of what we have 9 there, and hopefully the City can then come in and, if they 10 so choose, and through E.I.C. or whatever other mechanisms 11 are -- E.I.C. is a separate entity, I understand -- you 12 know, build a facility that's, you know, 30,000 to 35,000, 13 40,000 square feet, something in that area. And that's kind 14 of where we are. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think the important 16 thing that I think we need to impart to the City Council is 17 that our discussions have taken us a long -- a long route to 18 get to this point, but the point is that we finally 19 concluded that it would be beneficial, we believe, to 20 separate agricultural/animal activities from people 21 activities. And the new, revised plan does that. We -- we 22 congregate or segregate those things that are related to 23 agriculture, Youth -- Hill Country Youth District Livestock 24 Show, goat sales, whatever, in facilities that they need to 25 do what they need to do, and give them plenty of room for 7-10-02 JCC 83 1 growth. And, at the same time, then we deal with community 2 needs, whatever they may be, in a separate facility on the 3 same grounds, but separated by a significant distance, so 4 that the two just don't meet. You know, we -- I think we've 5 overcome some of the objections that we've heard in the past 6 about the combination of activities under one roof. I 7 think, if our big master plan before had a drawback, it was 8 that it had everything almost under one roof. So, by 9 separating these things, I think we -- we have at least made 10 an attempt to overcome one of the obstacles that -- that 11 members of the City Council had registered in the past, and 12 quite justifiably. 13 And what it also does, in this plan -- and if 14 the City joins us, it would even be more effective -- it 15 provides a venue for events that almost double the size 16 that -- that -- which has a capability in the city of 17 Kerrville right now. The last of the venues that we all 18 know about that is rented out is the K.C. Hall. I think as 19 of July 1, they're not accepting any more contracts for 20 activities there, because that venue is closing down and 21 going into private enterprise. C.V.B., I know, has told 22 you, because they told us, that that really poses a 23 significant problem, and so if we're going to deal with 24 this, and hopefully we can figure out a way to deal with it 25 together, we should be thinking about how we can provide a 7-10-02 JCC 84 1 really Class-A facility for the people of Kerr County, the 2 people of the city of Kerrville, to do all the things from a 3 very small wedding reception to a -- a trade show of -- of 4 significant proportions. 5 When you consider that you can only seat 500 6 people in a banquet in this town right now in either of the 7 two main venues that you have -- hotels, essentially -- that 8 is a limiter, and it's a very limiting factor in terms of 9 what can be brought to this town. And there is significant 10 economic impact from things that are brought into this town. 11 So, I think we've taken a very measured and direct step in 12 the right direction in the revised plan that we're going to 13 try to finalize with our Court. We'd welcome your 14 participation. 15 MAYOR FINE: I think the City -- from my 16 perspective, anyway, it was more a feeling, what with the 17 new plan you guys came up with -- the other plan that was 18 mainly focused on ag just was not something that the City 19 participated in; it wasn't in the past. It's not that we're 20 not interested in it. It's just you guys had the Exhibition 21 Center. Y'all did the -- y'all did the ag; we did the golf, 22 you know. And -- and -- but when it came down to, like, 23 what Bill was saying, with the -- the Knights of Columbus 24 Hall changing hands and that facility no longer being 25 available -- being available, that was, I guess, the largest 7-10-02 JCC 85 1 facility of its size around, and it was very -- very 2 limiting. But -- and it makes sense to put something in 3 place where you've already got parking, you've already 4 got -- the land cost is there. I mean, parking lots aren't 5 cheap. You put them in once, but, you know, there's 6 maintenance, and it makes sense to have it near some other 7 type of facility. 8 We don't have room down there by the 9 Municipal Auditorium to put it in. Otherwise, I mean, that 10 would be a great spot. There's not enough parking down 11 there either, but it just made sense to do something along 12 that line out there. But it needed to be something, in my 13 personal opinion, that was separate from the ag -- I mean, 14 I've been to events out there in the Ag Barn, and, you know, 15 you end up chewing on dust as much as you do food. I'm not 16 cutting anybody down; I'm just being realistic. You know, 17 that's what it is. And, you know, if you're going to have a 18 facility that's going to be attractive to people, you can't 19 show, you know, chickens and hogs and goats in it one day 20 and expect people to come out there in a coat and tie the 21 next night; it just wouldn't work. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But just so you know -- I 23 know some of the press is here -- that the County's proposal 24 is still primarily ag. 25 MAYOR FINE: I -- 7-10-02 JCC 86 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just -- I know you know, 2 but just so everyone else is clear, it's an ag proposal with 3 a component that can be added onto by the City which is not 4 ag. 5 MAYOR FINE: But it would also increase your 6 ag value, too. Because -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sure. 8 MAYOR FINE: -- you could bring in bigger 9 events and -- you know, and the people who come to the ag 10 events probably get tired of chewing on the dust with their 11 barbecue, too. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The exhibit hall could 13 certainly be used for an ag-type function. It's not like 14 they're totally mutually exclusive. Just -- it's just that 15 they can be used -- separated. We're keeping the pigs away 16 from the diners or the exhibiters or whatever. 17 MAYOR FINE: That's preferable. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Assuming you don't have 19 pigs that are eating. 20 (Laughter.) 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm not going to make 22 any comments on that. Totally out of this conversation. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But we're going to -- you 24 know, right now, where we are, we're getting some of the 25 revised costs. And I need to get with you or give you kind 7-10-02 JCC 87 1 of the -- the metal frame construction -- give you the 2 parameters so you can see, at least, you know, where we are 3 on costs, 'cause it's basically going to be per square foot. 4 I mean, if you go from 15,000 foot to 25,000 foot, you just 5 basically add square footage cost to it. 6 MR. PATTERSON: What would be helpful to do 7 the economic impact statement, as well as the cost analysis, 8 it would be helpful to know a per-square-foot price, and 9 also what -- what amenities are proposed within that price. 10 You know, are you talking about a full-service kitchen? Are 11 you talking about a stage that has full lighting and sound 12 system? You know, that kind of information is important, 13 because whenever you've got a convention center, that 14 information is real important. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 16 MR. PATTERSON: It's also beneficial to know 17 what kind of business -- what kind of businesses and events 18 you can attract. So, that helps -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We'll give -- 20 MR. PATTERSON: -- in terms of the economic 21 impact analysis. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm in the process of 23 developing a list of what I think basically meets the needs 24 of the County right now, and then what would be -- then you 25 could look at that and figure out what needs to be added to 7-10-02 JCC 88 1 that to get what the -- you know, for the City to 2 participate, what else would have to be added to that; 3 whether it's square footage, whether it's a sound stage, 4 whether it's, you know, kitchen, whatever it is. I mean, 5 we'll give you the components, 'cause I see right now 6 basically duplicating the exhibit hall in a better facility, 7 the current exhibit hall. And I don't see a big, 8 full-service kitchen, and I don't see a stage. I see an 9 area that you can serve -- basically do the same thing you 10 do right now, but it being in a -- in a structure that could 11 be expanded, if the City chooses to participate, to add 12 things that the City needs or feels that should be in a 13 convention center. I think you can mesh the two. 14 They're -- basically, they're very similar uses; just add a 15 few components. 16 MR. PATTERSON: Just a point of clarification 17 for me, somebody, when I start crunching numbers. The 18 proposal would be -- is there would be a base -- base 19 structure of some sort proposed that the County would 20 participate in, and anything added -- 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, the County's going to 22 build basically what we have now, which is approximately 23 13,000 square feet, with some food preparation and service 24 capability. 25 MR. PATTERSON: Okay. And that's in -- but 7-10-02 JCC 89 1 that's in a separate building. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yeah, that's going to be in a 3 separate building. The question is, the C.V.B. told us that 4 they'd really like to have 40,000 square feet, okay, and a 5 full commercial kitchen, and maybe two or three meeting 6 rooms. Okay. What is your incremental cost above what the 7 County is going to build as the base to what is determined 8 by whomever is the optimum size and capability for Kerr 9 County for, let's say, the next 10 years? Because where 10 we're going to build it will probably permit you to expand 11 it in the future, if it's necessary. So, it's kind of -- we 12 have the base, because we're going to do that, because 13 that's what the County needs. And what's the add-on cost of 14 taking it to the next level? Which serves another whole 15 envelope of users. 16 MR. PATTERSON: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Basically, what I 18 think -- I mean, if you admitted the initial drawings that 19 had -- how many square feet was that? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The initial -- the 21 initial drawings showed on the exhibit hall about 27,000. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And in the first 24 phase -- and we recognize, from the discussions that we've 25 heard with Sudie and others, that that would be the minimum. 7-10-02 JCC 90 1 Then there was a Phase II that was proposed, which would 2 have been a concrete floor and a -- and a roof, but open air 3 to accommodate the expansion in the trade shows. That was 4 kind of a Phase II, so I guess what we're really saying -- 5 three of us are trying to say is that if we're going to 6 replace the exhibit hall that we have, which is somewhere 7 between 13,000 and 15,000 square feet, and assume that 8 responsibility, if -- we need to get it to 30, right? That 9 there is your incremental cost to give us a facility that 10 everybody can buy into, with all the amenities that are 11 necessary to go with it. That's kind of what I think I'm 12 hearing. 13 MAYOR FINE: But the facility you're planning 14 on would not be suitable for conventions or -- 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: It would have to be pretty 16 small. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It could be -- 18 MAYOR FINE: But it wouldn't have any food 19 preparation area? 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: It will have to have some 21 food preparation, because it's a stand-alone. 22 MAYOR FINE: 'Cause -- yeah, what we had 23 talked about was about putting more of a caterer's kitchen. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Whichever. Exactly. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: But, yeah, it will have to 7-10-02 JCC 91 1 have some food preparation, 'cause it's a stand-alone. 2 You'll have to have a place where people can bring their 3 stuff in, set up to serve or warm, you know, a -- 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And concession 5 facilities for when you're in a dinner mode, if you have an 6 activity that only requires concessions, you have to have 7 something -- 8 MAYOR FINE: Something that's going to be 9 climate-controlled. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. 12 MAYOR FINE: So it wouldn't be just 13 drop-down -- 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, 15 climate-controlled. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: If you're conceptually saying 17 the Hill Country Junior District Livestock Show dinner -- 18 MAYOR FINE: Mm-hmm. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- we're going to do a 20 facility that they can operate that in. 21 MAYOR FINE: Okay. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Conveniently. 23 MAYOR FINE: Okay. 24 MR. SMITH: How many square feet were in the 25 K.C. Hall? Does anybody know, just to give us an idea? 7-10-02 JCC 92 1 MAYOR FINE: Between 10,000 and 12,000. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: I would say about 12,000. 3 MAYOR FINE: Yeah. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: It was limited. 5 MR. SMITH: It's that small? So, you're 6 talking about something considerably larger. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes. 8 MAYOR FINE: But it didn't have the food 9 preparation area, per se. The barbecue pit was out back. 10 MS. SULLIVAN: Right. 11 MR. PATTERSON: A serving window. That was 12 about it. 13 MAYOR FINE: Yeah. Which study we've done to 14 date indicates that that type of facility needs to be at 15 least 27,000. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, the current -- what 17 we do, the space we're doing at the current exhibit hall at 18 the Ag Barn, that building -- that's that open area -- is 19 13,000 square feet, which is -- it's a pretty big room, but 20 that's -- you know, that's what it is. 21 MR. SMITH: Did I hear somebody say in your 22 exhibit hall you might put animals in there on certain 23 occasions? Did I hear you say that, or somebody say that? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. 25 MR. SMITH: So, this would be strictly a 7-10-02 JCC 93 1 human -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Human. 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Human display. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or you could have -- not 5 animals; maybe exhibits in there, but not animals. 6 Exhibits. 7 MS. SULLIVAN: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think what Jonathan 9 was alluding to is you could have an ag-based function going 10 on in the ag part, and over in the exhibit hall, you could 11 have a trade -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tractor show. 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Tractor shows or -- in 14 other words, it would be set up for convention-like space, 15 trade show kind of things. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Maybe we brushed over 17 too lightly what we're going to do -- what remains. What 18 would remain from the two facilities there now would be the 19 arena, but it is in serious need of rehabilitation. And 20 what would disappear is what we call the exhibit hall now 21 and the pens behind it. That goes out and is replaced with 22 a barn of about 45,000 square feet, something like that, 23 which is capable of handling just about any kind of an 24 animal enterprise or extravaganza that you could think 25 about. And once the arena is rehabilitated -- and it needs 7-10-02 JCC 94 1 it seriously; a lot of things need to be done to it -- then 2 the agriculture or animal activities are really contained 3 there, and they have plenty of room for growth in those two 4 facilities. And about the only thing that -- that you can 5 think of that might come over on the other side would be 6 something like the Hill Country District Junior Livestock 7 Show fundraising dinner, which attracts a huge crowd, and 8 other things of that nature. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: 'Cause right now, the -- the 10 Junior District Livestock Show dinner, which is their major 11 fundraiser, is limited to about 700 people. They sell 350 12 tickets, which, you know, two, three persons to a ticket. 13 They could probably sell 500 tickets, 700 tickets if they 14 had the space, but they don't have the space. So, one thing 15 we're going to try to do is to provide them with 16 additional -- 17 MAYOR FINE: A lot of functions could -- the 18 Mounted Peace Officers dinner. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: All of them. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Exactly. 21 MR. SMITH: Well, that facility at Schreiner 22 must not have more than 5,000 square feet, if that much. 23 MAYOR FINE: The drawback to that is you have 24 to do your catering through Mariott. That's the biggest 25 drawback to it, besides the size. But, I mean -- 7-10-02 JCC 95 1 MR. SMITH: It's very small, isn't it? Would 2 it be 5,000, maybe 6,000? 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: If you really cram in, you 4 can seat about 450 people in that ballroom for dinner, but 5 that doesn't leave any room for an auction -- 6 MAYOR FINE: No dance floor. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- or dance or anything like 8 that. Your silent auction has to be set outside around the 9 courtyard. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And you have to 11 compete with Schreiner for dates. 12 MR. SMITH: Yeah. You need some kind of 13 facility here, but with a name other than "Ag Barn." 14 (Laughter.) 15 MR. SMITH: I can't see people coming halfway 16 across the state to go to Kerrville to eat in an ag barn. 17 MAYOR FINE: You'd be surprised. Well -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We can have a contest 19 to rename it. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: And I think that this is an 21 issue that -- that the Court will probably take to the 22 voters, in the sense of a bond issue or approval of some 23 sort of financing. Exact timing is unknown. I think the 24 most likely dates, in my mind, are either next February or 25 next August. February may be a bit ambitious, although it 7-10-02 JCC 96 1 has certain advantages. 2 MR. SMITH: Well, you're talking about 3 spending money in February on this? 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: No. 5 MR. SMITH: Going to the voters? Okay. So, 6 we would be talking about probably 2004? 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: No, we're talking about -- 8 you know, if a bond election was successful, we would be 9 cranking up immediately, because that's right -- if we did 10 it in February, we would be cranking up immediately, 'cause 11 that's right after the Junior District Livestock Show, and 12 so we would want to accomplish as much as we can before they 13 need the space for the next show. 14 MR. SMITH: That would mean we'd have to have 15 it in this budget that's coming up, then, to spend money. 16 MAYOR FINE: Well, that's why we have to 17 crunch the numbers to see how much we're talking about, what 18 source we're looking at. Unfortunately, the flood just put 19 a little damper on our cash flow for this next year. We may 20 be buying roads and utility lines instead of -- but, you 21 know, we'll just have to wait and see what the numbers play 22 out to. I think that's kind of why we're sitting here. 23 MR. PATTERSON: Do you have any kind of a 24 timeline on when we would have that data available? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ten days, probably. 7-10-02 JCC 97 1 MR. PATTERSON: Okay. Okay. Yeah, I've got 2 an August 1 deadline to have a budget to them, so -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably before that. 4 It's not that hard to put together what's going in, just 5 going through the local -- we've got -- we've worked it so 6 many times, we have a lot of numbers. But we ought to go 7 out one more time to area builders and say, What do you 8 think it's going to cost to build this? Here's the list of 9 what we want. We want a barn that's 45,000 square feet, 10 14 feet high, you know, metal building. Barn's the other 11 part, the Ag Barn. 12 MR. SMITH: The barn's okay over there. 13 AUDIENCE: Convention hall. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Then the other convention 15 center for the -- 16 MR. PATTERSON: I need a -- I mean, like, if 17 I get that data and have questions about it, who's my 18 contact? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Me. 20 MAYOR FINE: She said a 27,000 square foot 21 facility would serve 1,000 people, right? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, seat 1,000 -- 24 seat 1,000 in the round. 25 MAYOR FINE: Right. 7-10-02 JCC 98 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And still leave you 2 room for a dance floor and auction space and things of that 3 nature with a catering kitchen. 4 MAYOR FINE: Right. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right, and all the -- 6 MAYOR FINE: Proper restroom facilities. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And some other 8 amenities, yeah. 9 MAYOR FINE: Yeah, those would be good 10 amenities to have. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Restrooms? 12 MS. SULLIVAN: Yeah, I think so. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, indeed. Plenty 14 of them. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We're going to have 16 that in the slimmed-down version, even. 17 MAYOR FINE: Okay. I think we -- 18 MR. PATTERSON: Okay. I think I got what I 19 need. Okay. 20 MR. SMITH: I shouldn't say too much about 21 animals. The biggest fundraiser in New Orleans was what was 22 called the "Zoo To-Do." You'd go out to the zoo in your 23 formal attire, ladies in their high heels and their long 24 dresses, and they'd raise over a million dollars in a 25 one-night deal at the zoo. Maybe the animals are 7-10-02 JCC 99 1 attractive. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anything else? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're not planning a 4 zoo for Flat Rock Lake. 5 AUDIENCE: Aquarium. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anything else anyone would 7 like to bring up along any future considerations? Any -- 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: What was the question 9 we had today in court? You said we -- oh, the last question 10 of the night. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: What was that question? 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: What was it? Five 13 senior moments all at once. There was something we talked 14 about in court this afternoon; we said, oh, we're going to 15 have a meeting at 4 o'clock with the City Council. We'll 16 just ask that question. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think it had to do with the 18 airport. 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: No. Jail? It was the 20 jail, maybe. Prisoners. We talked about that a long time 21 this morning. Kathy, help us. 22 (Discussion off the record.) 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, if we don't have 24 anything else other than senior moments, I'd suggest we 25 adjourn. Okay. Thank you all. 7-10-02 JCC 100 1 MR. PATTERSON: Thank y'all very much. 2 (Joint meeting adjourned at 6:25 p.m.) 3 - - - - - - - - - - 4 5 6 STATE OF TEXAS | 7 COUNTY OF KERR | 8 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 9 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 10 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 11 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 12 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 2nd day of August, 13 2002. 14 15 16 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 17 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 18 Certified Shorthand Reporter 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 7-10-02 JCC