1 2 3 4 5 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 6 Special Session 7 Tuesday, July 30, 2002 8 6:00 p.m. 9 Commissioners' Courtroom 10 Kerr County Courthouse 11 Kerrville, Texas 12 13 14 15 PUBLIC HEARING 16 2003-04 Texas Community Development Program and Colonia Fund applications for 17 continuation of Kerrville South Sewer Project 18 Disaster Relief and Home Disaster Assistance programs 19 20 21 22 PRESENT: H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 23 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 24 LARRY GRIFFIN, Commissioner Pct. 4 25 ABSENT: FREDERICK L. HENNEKE, Kerr County Judge 2 1 On Tuesday, July 30, 2002, at 6:00 p.m., a special 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We'll call to order 8 this special Commissioners Court meeting, Tuesday, July 30, 9 2002, pursuant to the Texas Open Meetings Act. The purpose 10 of this meeting is to conduct a public hearing regarding 11 Kerr County's participation in the 2003-04 Texas Community 12 Development Program and Colonia Fund applications for the 13 continuation of the Kerrville South Sewer Collection 14 Project, and the second item of open -- for the public 15 hearing is the Disaster Relief and Home Disaster Assistance 16 programs. With us tonight is Mr. Eric Hartzell -- a little 17 tardy, but otherwise okay -- of Grantworks, the folks who 18 would propose to conduct this public hearing and assist Kerr 19 County in filing these applications. So, without further 20 ado, Mr. Hartzell, tell us what the program's all about. 21 MR. HARTZELL: Thank you, Commissioner 22 Williams, Court. Sorry I'm late. We were in Boerne. We 23 got a big turnout for the same kind of event we're doing 24 tonight, so we got stuck there a little longer than we 25 wanted. I apologize for being late. As the Commissioner 7-30-02 3 1 mentioned, this is the public hearing for the Texas 2 Community Development Program, which is a federal grant 3 program that comes to the state of Texas for distribution to 4 rural communities and counties throughout the -- throughout 5 the state. I'm going to hand out an information sheet right 6 now. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 8 MR. HARTZELL: You're welcome. This sheet 9 describes the Community Development Program and the various 10 funding categories and activities that are eligible for the 11 program, and -- oops. I have a few here for the audience as 12 well. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We can have extra 14 copies made for the crowd. 15 MR. HARTZELL: Yeah, it's nice to be here at 16 a relatively uncrowded meeting. We have actually a few 17 extras here. I can leave one for distribution to the Judge 18 and whoever else would like one from the public. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Please do. 20 MR. HARTZELL: The Texas Community 21 Development Program is divided in several funding 22 categories. The County is familiar with some of them from 23 previous applications. The first is -- and the largest 24 category is the Community Development Fund, which is used 25 primarily for water and sewer improvements, including the 7-30-02 4 1 County's project in Kerrville South. The deadline for this 2 program is coming up in September, the end of September, and 3 it's a competitive grant process that pits the County 4 against other applicants throughout the San Antonio area. 5 The second program that the -- that the Community 6 Development Program funds is the Colonia Program. The 7 County's also used funds from the Colonia Program also for 8 water and sewer facilities; in this case, sewer facilities 9 in Kerrville South. The County received a 10 half-million-dollar grant in 2000 -- 2001. 11 Let's see. There's a housing fund which you 12 can -- which applicants can apply for in lieu of the water 13 and sewer grants, which can be used to rehabilitate or 14 reconstruct homes in the unincorporated areas of the county. 15 It's also due on September 26th. Another one of interest 16 tonight is the Disaster Relief Fund. It's a $350,000 grant 17 fund that is eligible -- available to counties that have 18 been declared disaster areas. The grant money can be used 19 to provide the twenty -- or a portion of the 25 percent 20 assistance on FEMA public assistance. It also can be used 21 in limited circumstances for buy-out programs if any -- if 22 any funds remain, but the maximum the County can receive is 23 $350,000 per disaster. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What does "buy-out 25 programs" mean? 7-30-02 5 1 MR. HARTZELL: The buy-out program -- FEMA 2 buy-out program. I think the City of Kerrville may be 3 looking at a buy-out program where homes are bought in the 4 floodways and the people are moved out and the land is 5 dedicated for nondevelopable -- nondevelopment uses like 6 parks and open space. Let's see. Flipping over the page, 7 past uses of the funds, we already went over most of that. 8 It's -- the funds have been used mainly for sewer service in 9 Kerrville South. 10 The next program that we want to discuss is a 11 separate program; it's not part of the Community Development 12 Program. It's called the Home Program. It's also a federal 13 block grant that comes from H.U.D. to the state of Texas and 14 is distributed, again, out to the local -- localities. The 15 Home -- Home funds are only used for housing, mainly for 16 down payment assistance and owner-occupied housing 17 rehabilitation. Because the program's relatively new -- 18 it's been around for a little less than a decade -- they've 19 realized that during a disaster in Texas, housing tends to 20 get a big wallop as well as the roads. Mainly, we're 21 dealing with floods, and a lot of housing was having to be 22 -- being affected. Previously, the Community Development 23 Program was expected to pick up both the roads and bridges 24 and the public infrastructure and the housing, and there was 25 never enough money to go around, so H.U.D. has set up a 7-30-02 6 1 Disaster Assistance fund. What this fund will do is it will 2 make up to half a million dollars of grant money available 3 to an eligible entity, which Kerr County would be an 4 eligible entity, to rebuild or rehab houses that were 5 destroyed or damaged in the flood. 6 Now, this program is viewed by the State as a 7 program of last resort. What that means is that we're 8 talking about people who are very low-income, typically 9 elderly and/or disabled, who have no recourse. Their 10 insurance isn't going to pay or hasn't paid enough. FEMA 11 won't pay or hasn't paid enough, and they're living in a -- 12 in a damaged structure, or they -- they own a damaged 13 structure they can't return to unless assistance is given to 14 them. The requirements of this program would include 15 raising the structure, if it's rebuilt or rehabbed, above 16 the flood elevation. It also would require that the person 17 live in the unit for five years. They can't turn around and 18 sell a renovated house immediately, unless there are 19 circumstances beyond their control, such as death or moving 20 into a nursing home, for instance. 21 Other than that, this program has been used 22 by -- for instance, Medina County got a grant this past year 23 to do about ten houses, I believe, that were affected by 24 some hail and wind damage in the county. And, because this 25 program is sort of a last resort program, the money doesn't 7-30-02 7 1 flow very fast on it. That's the excuse, anyway. The 2 reality is, the program just moves slowly. Applications 3 will not be accepted anytime in the next few months. It 4 will probably be October or November before the State will 5 open up for applications, and then money will be coming 6 probably in the early spring. So, again, these are people 7 who have no recourse. They've exhausted their -- their 8 opportunities and their -- and it's sort of after FEMA's 9 come, after the insurance has come, what we have left. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What is the process 11 for establishing Kerr County's eligibility? Just having 12 been declared part of a disaster area? 13 MR. HARTZELL: Yes. Kerr County, by being 14 declared a disaster area, either at the government -- at the 15 state level or the federal, and in this case the federal, 16 becomes eligible for this assistance. The individual homes 17 that are -- to be eligible for assistance, they must have 18 been included on FEMA's list. They need to call -- the 19 homeowner will need to call FEMA and report their individual 20 damage just like -- like they would normally after a 21 disaster. I know that Kerr County's had several hundred, I 22 believe, homes reported to FEMA. They wouldn't need to 23 have -- beyond the -- the master FEMA list, they don't have 24 to have either been denied or received aid from FEMA. That 25 doesn't matter. They could have been declined or they could 7-30-02 8 1 have been -- or they could have actually gotten a small 2 amount of aid. That doesn't affect their eligibility. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What determines the 4 amount of -- of assistance Kerr County might be eligible 5 for? You say up to half a million? What -- 6 MR. HARTZELL: Right. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How is that figured 8 out? 9 MR. HARTZELL: Okay. That would be figured 10 out by a list of the number of homes that were affected in 11 the county, and usually the Red Cross can provide us with a 12 good number of people who are still not assisted. And 13 that's typically what the counties have done. Medina County 14 got a Red Cross list and went through, figured they had 40 15 houses; that was more than enough to use up the half million 16 dollars. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Does the County's -- 18 if the County is accepted in the program and declared 19 eligible, is that money to be used only in the 20 unincorporated areas of the county, or in the city as well? 21 MR. HARTZELL: Okay. These funds, unlike the 22 Community Development Funds, the house -- the Home funds may 23 be used within the incorporated areas of the county. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 25 MR. HARTZELL: In fact, in Medina County, 7-30-02 9 1 their program is being used mainly in the city of Hondo. 2 The City applied for a half million on its own in Hondo, and 3 the County also applied for a half million, and almost all 4 of the million is being used in the city limits. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's more than 6 likely here in Kerr County, right? The City is also 7 thinking about -- 8 MR. HARTZELL: My understanding is the City 9 is thinking about it. I have not spoken with anybody at the 10 City, but I think in the paper they had written that the 11 City was looking at options. And -- are there any 12 questions? 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: What does it take to 14 apply for that one, the last one? 15 MR. HARTZELL: The housing program? 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. 17 MR. HARTZELL: The main requirement will be 18 -- well, first of all, once the State releases the 19 application, which, again, will probably be October or so -- 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So they will release 21 an application and then we will respond thereto? 22 MR. HARTZELL: That's right. We'll be able 23 to fill out the application material. We'll check the list 24 of -- a count of how many people we think may be eligible. 25 There will be some application preparation; it's a fairly 7-30-02 10 1 extensive application process, and then all that material -- 2 the Court will pass a res -- will need to be asked to pass a 3 resolution to apply for the assistance, and at that point it 4 will be submitted to the State for their review. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Thanks. I was just 6 wondering what triggered it, really. It's the State. 7 MR. HARTZELL: It's the State getting their 8 stuff together, that's right. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There are two members 10 of the public who have asked to be a part of this and speak. 11 Austin Wayne Donaghe of 128 C Street, Kerrville. 12 MR. DONAGHE: Yes. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Please identify 14 yourself for the record. 15 MR. DONAGHE: Wayne Donaghe, 128 C Street, 16 Kerrville. I live at basically where all the water ended up 17 before it hit the river, or a big part of it. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Quinlan Creek area? 19 MR. DONAGHE: That, and the drainage from the 20 new drainage project we had, where it ended -- where it 21 backed up, where it ended up straight down C Street to my 22 place. I'm at the very end. And I'm kind of at the end of 23 my rope. I've gone through FEMA, I've gone through S.B.A., 24 and I've gone through the I.F.G. program. It's not going to 25 touch what -- the damage I have. Basically, it started out 7-30-02 11 1 as a $300 fix. I'm in the city limits. Laws have changed; 2 now I'm required to connect to the city sewer, where in the 3 past I couldn't. I could, but the City was required to buy 4 the lift station. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: City was required to 6 what? 7 MR. DONAGHE: The City was required to supply 8 the lift station. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There's no lift 10 station in your area? 11 MR. DONAGHE: No. I'm the only one at the 12 end of a line, only one from the city main to my house. 13 And, long story short, it's under pressure, which makes my 14 lift station bigger. And then the whole range just 15 snowballed from there. A $300 fix is now -- I'm now at 16 $24,000. City's giving me no break whatsoever. In fact, it 17 feels like they're jumping up and down with glee to -- to 18 bother me. And I just -- I'm just wanting to know what help 19 is available for me now, before I'm forced out of my house. 20 Since the flood, I spent roughly a week in my house. The 21 rest have been in a motel room, simply because my sewer -- 22 it just takes time to get a lift station put in. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 24 MR. DONAGHE: And -- I don't know. I'm just 25 here to ask for help, and if anybody knows of help for me. 7-30-02 12 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is your -- the problem is 2 the sewer? Is the house, itself, livable? 3 MR. DONAGHE: Yes, it is. It's -- I have 4 minimal damage. I would say, roughly, the whole house, 5 $10,000 to repair it. It wasn't that much. It was -- it 6 was from the -- the drain hit my house, split both ways, 7 went around the back, uncovered my septic tank, put a hole 8 about the size of my fist in it. And I went to -- I went to 9 repair it, so I went to the City to get my permit and do all 10 of that, which I did, and I was told while applying to do 11 this that I would stop what I was doing; I could not 12 proceed. I would have to hook on. Okay. And then it came 13 under -- that it was a pressure line and so forth, and so 14 forth. And now, basically, I have to -- I didn't have 15 enough electricity in my house to run this lift station, so 16 I'm having to re -- put new electricity to my house, a new 17 service. And that -- and this entails I have to repair my 18 house, because the old system is 30 -- 30 fuses. And if 19 they put the new main in, it's 20 breakers -- 20-amp 20 breakers. Anytime I turn anything on, it blows them. So, I 21 mean, it just is snowballed -- snowballing, and I'm just 22 here to request help and see what can be done. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, I guess if -- 24 MR. DONAGHE: And I have asked the City to 25 give me leniency, you know. "Okay, I'll hook on the sewer; 7-30-02 13 1 give me time." And I was told no. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Based on what's 3 happening to you personally, and your family, I guess you're 4 speaking in favor of the County attempting to get involved 5 in this program? 6 MR. DONAGHE: Yeah, in any program. 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Well, and I think -- 8 but you're -- you're looking for something shorter-term 9 than -- 10 MR. DONAGHE: And it doesn't have to be. I 11 mean, I'm livable. I'm -- I'm not -- I guess I'd be what 12 they'd call from the low to middle income. And Red Cross 13 and Salvation Army's been a big help. And, you know, I'm 14 following the process, doing what I can, but I'm just at a 15 point where I'm out of options. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are you -- 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Go ahead. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're between 19 Commissioner Williams' and my precinct. I know you're in 20 one of ours. 21 MR. DONAGHE: I believe I'm in 2. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're in 2. 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Has -- who did you 24 talk to in the City? 25 MR. DONAGHE: The inspectors. There was -- 7-30-02 14 1 there's -- the chief building inspector. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Brian. 3 MR. DONAGHE: Brian. He's been -- I think 4 he's been on my side. He's helpful, but his hands are more 5 or less tied, because the inspectors have -- 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I would think the 7 Council would grant a variance to put the septic system back 8 into -- 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would think so. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- operation, until 11 such time as -- 12 MR. DONAGHE: Basically, all it was was 13 the -- to have it sucked out, because it filled up with 14 water from the -- it knocked a hole in it. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Sure. That's a 16 variance to their building -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think if Commissioner 18 Williams would probably visit with the City, he might be 19 able to find out what the problem is. 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Got to be a variance. 21 MR. DONAGHE: What you're talking about 22 sounds like something I'm going to need in the future, 23 regardless of what does come available. You know, I do have 24 further damage to the property. And I'm not in a 25 floodplain. Never -- never was. And it's just -- I guess 7-30-02 15 1 that's basically it. And I'll speak to you later. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll be happy to -- 3 and I'll be happy to speak on your behalf with the City 4 people, including appearing before the Council, if that's 5 necessary, but I want to direct a question to Eric. 6 MR. HARTZELL: Sure. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This gentleman and 8 his family would be eligible for this if the County was a 9 participant? 10 MR. HARTZELL: They would be eligible, based 11 -- if their incomes were -- were low to moderate, yeah. We 12 have to verify the income, but that would be the main 13 criteria. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 15 MR. HARTZELL: You've reported your damage to 16 FEMA? 17 MR. DONAGHE: Yes. 18 MR. HARTZELL: Okay. 19 MR. DONAGHE: I went through FEMA, I.F.G., 20 and S.B.A. Went through all of them. 21 MR. HARTZELL: Okay. 22 MR. DONAGHE: I'm in limbo-land right now, 23 now that I've appealed FEMA, and no one can help me at the 24 moment, 'cause I'm in a bad place. 25 MR. HARTZELL: I'm not real clear about the 7-30-02 16 1 lift station. Is this, like, an individual lift station? 2 Like a -- they call them a grinder pump lift station. 3 MR. DONAGHE: It has a pump and a grinder 4 because of the pressure from the line that goes to my house. 5 MR. HARTZELL: Right. 6 MR. DONAGHE: It required a grinder also to 7 boost the pressure. 8 MR. HARTZELL: Okay. Okay. I will have to 9 check on the eligibility of putting in an improvement like 10 that -- a $24,000 improvement like that for a -- for the 11 Home Program. I'm not sure if that's eligible. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Check on that, will 13 you? 14 MR. HARTZELL: The house damage itself would 15 be eligible. The addition of the new sewer infrastructure, 16 I don't know whether that would be eligible. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We have to find the 18 house and its infrastructure -- 19 MR. DONAGHE: Define "house." 20 MR. HARTZELL: Typically, they'll replace the 21 house, but they won't upgrade the infrastructure. 22 MR. DONAGHE: And that's my whole problem, 23 you know, with all these agencies. I'm not upgrading. I 24 have no choice. It's illegal for me at this point to deal 25 with my septic. It's against the law. They'll cut off all 7-30-02 17 1 my services if I -- I've asked the question, what if I 2 illegally fixed it for now, you know, and I was told I would 3 be -- all utilities would be cut off and I would be 4 unsanitary and be forced out. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It saddens my heart 6 that you have to ask that stupid question. They should be 7 over there knocking on your door trying to find a way to 8 help you. 9 MR. DONAGHE: Well, and what really bothers 10 me is, in the past, it was -- it was okay as long as the 11 City was going to have to pay for that lift station. "Your 12 septic's all right," you know. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you have -- do you 14 have a family? 15 MR. DONAGHE: Yes. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you have children? 17 MR. DONAGHE: My children are grown and gone 18 now; it's just me and my wife. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you occupying 20 your home now? 21 MR. DONAGHE: On and off. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: On and off? 23 MR. DONAGHE: I'm not supposed to be in it, 24 because I'm not legally -- 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand. 7-30-02 18 1 MR. DONAGHE: But I do. You know, I go in it 2 and out it, and I haven't been sleeping in it the last two 3 nights. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is just a temporary 5 possibility, but is it possible to get a -- a tank that 6 would then be pumped? 7 MR. DONAGHE: I'm hooked up. I am hooked up; 8 it's running. But, because of time constraints, the City 9 couldn't get out to inspect the plumber in time. And I live 10 right next to a nursing home, and he would not go off and 11 leave it uncovered, so he covered it. It's running. I 12 mean, it's running; it's above and beyond any requirements 13 they're going to have, but now they're telling me I have to 14 dig it up so they can put their hand all the way around it 15 and look. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: "They" meaning -- 17 MR. DONAGHE: I took pictures -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- the city 19 inspector? 20 MR. DONAGHE: And I took pictures of 21 everything. I took pictures, literally, and that was not -- 22 that wasn't good enough, so I'm dealing with that. I'm -- 23 the guy is going to come back; he went somewhere to put in 24 another lift station. I don't know exactly what his -- 25 where he is, but -- 7-30-02 19 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What about the 2 nursing home next to you? What are they doing? Are they -- 3 were they affected in any way? 4 MR. DONAGHE: They were flooded, yes. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But their -- their 6 sewage removal wasn't affected? 7 MR. DONAGHE: No, they're already hooked -- 8 they've been on the city main for many years. I had my 9 house inspected; I was building on it, and I had my 10 foundation inspected, and they saw the sewer at the time. 11 This was four years ago or so. And they -- he said, "Oh, 12 septic's got to go." And he was at my house the next 13 morning and said, "Oh, you're going to have to have a lift 14 station. We're not going to put that in, so just keep your 15 septic running." 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're not -- your 17 home is not positioned in that area where they would be 18 thinking about purchasing the property to clear out the 19 floodway, is it? 20 MR. DONAGHE: No, sir. I am -- no, I'm not 21 in the flood -- I'm not in the Guadalupe 100-year 22 floodplain. I'm not in it. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. You and I will 24 talk after we conclude. We have one other person who wants 25 to speak, Don Woods. Don? 7-30-02 20 1 MR. WOODS: Gentlemen, I'm Don Woods. I live 2 in Ingram, but I have property at 720 Lytle Street. That 3 property took four and a half feet of water through it, and 4 the people who were my residents there, Jesse and Pilar 5 Lara, were forced out. They lost all of their goods, and 6 they've had to relocate to a new location. I was 7 yellow-tagged -- or orange-tagged and not to further do 8 anything to the property except avoid the mosquitoes and 9 keep it clean. I've got it tagged out with "Do Not Enter" 10 signs to keep people from getting into it, because it is 11 dangerous, I would imagine, for children to play in it. I'm 12 retired. I relocated here in 1999 after retirement from my 13 job. My wife and I spent 20 years putting our program 14 together so that I could retire and we would have a small 15 income to support us off of our friendly Social Security and 16 what-have-you. This is part of that. 17 And that house originally was not in the 18 100-year floodplain, according to the map that was drawn and 19 shown in the newspaper, and also the one that the City had 20 in their presentation, but yet it took four and a half feet 21 of water. I'm told that if there is permission given to 22 rebuild or rework the house, that I'll have to meet the new 23 building requirements, and that would mean that the -- the 24 floor of the house would have to be one foot above the 25 anticipated floor plan -- floodplain as it exists on the 7-30-02 21 1 map. This will require a topographical survey by me, 2 expenses by me to prove that the land -- that the property 3 is -- is satisfactory to build on. If it isn't, then I have 4 to raise the house up to meet that requirement, which means 5 I have to jack a complete house up in the air. These are 6 all financial requirements that, in honesty, I'm not 7 prepared to spend that kind of money on. 8 And our plan had been to provide some 9 lower-income rental property for people who couldn't afford 10 to buy their own house, or to -- to, you know, join that 11 group of people, and we had been doing that satisfactorily. 12 The people that lived there were -- were there for -- I'm 13 trying to remember, but I think it was 12 years, and quite 14 happy in their -- in their environment. And we had had 15 floods in the past. I mean, that river -- that Quinlan 16 Creek had come up before, but it never got anywhere close to 17 this mess. And my constitutional statement to the boys at 18 the -- at the City was, there's no damage breaking up north. 19 There was none -- the little pond up there that broke, that 20 didn't mean anything. What the real, ultimate problem was 21 is the downstream condition of the -- of the creek bed was 22 cluttered with undergrowth. It was backed up. 23 And it's like taking a 5-gallon funnel that 24 can eliminate 5 gallons of water in a minute, and that's how 25 big the hole is at the bottom. And then throw in two hands 7-30-02 22 1 full of dirt and see if you can get it through the hole. If 2 you still put in that same 5 gallons, that 5 gallons is 3 going to go somewhere else. And it did, and it was very 4 obvious to see, by backtracking the flood, that everything 5 went beautifully through the golf course and everything; if 6 it couldn't get through, it went right on around it. It 7 didn't hurt the dam; it just went on its merry way until it 8 got right down to our area, and that's when it backed up, 9 and it couldn't do anything but back up. And that's why you 10 see the debris line shaped the way that it is in the 11 newspaper; beautiful plan -- beautiful presentation of where 12 the debris line is. 13 So, my whole -- I was here to find out what 14 is available. I'm like this gentleman here. I went down 15 and talked to the people. They say, well, if you're 16 financially able to be able to rebuild this, S.B.A. can't 17 help you. If you have "X" amount of money, if you have "X" 18 amount -- I'm classed as a business, because I was renting 19 this house to some people, so I'm a business. If you have 20 "X" amount of money, then you should be able to take care of 21 it yourself, is basically what I'm told. I say, "Well, 22 that's fine. If it's going to cost me $30,000 to rebuild a 23 $30,000 house, I'll give you three guesses, and the first 24 two don't count." I'm not going to do that, okay? I mean, 25 I'll turn it into a parking lot before I do that. 7-30-02 23 1 So, my whole problem is, is there a 2 possibility -- through the County and the City, is there 3 some way -- and with this gentleman from the government 4 being able to give us a hand, is there some way to channel 5 some money to try to eliminate this problem? I'll be more 6 than glad to -- to do whichever they say. If it's going to 7 be kiss it good-bye, I'll be more than happy to do it. I 8 guess that's my whole point. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 10 MR. WOODS: I know that this could help the 11 county, and I got city problems -- you know, city 12 organizational issues. But to have to raise that house up a 13 foot, I just don't think I got that much -- 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A question to 15 Mr. Hartzell of Grantworks, a question regarding a property 16 owner who rents his property. Where are we on that issue? 17 MR. HARTZELL: The Home Program typically 18 only will use funds to renovate or replace a home that's 19 owner-occupied; however, with Disaster Relief, they do make 20 exceptions if the family that's living there is -- is 21 low-income. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 23 MR. HARTZELL: So, there is a chance of 24 getting rental properties rehabbed. The County would make 25 this decision when it applies. You'll -- when you apply, 7-30-02 24 1 there's certain things you can check off that you'll allow 2 or not allow in your -- in your program. And when you 3 apply, you can check off saying that we would allow renters 4 who are low-income to also receive assistance. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where are the renters 6 of your property now? 7 MR. WOODS: They've had to move. I mean, 8 there's no way I could regenerate the place in time for them 9 to reoccupy it, and they were living as a family; it broke 10 the family up. They had to live at several different 11 families to take them in out of the rain and all. 12 MR. HARTZELL: They're in temporary housing? 13 MR. WOODS: Well, you know, they've gone 14 someplace else. I've lost track of them. I think they 15 probably found a new -- new residence, and so I'm not really 16 sure of exactly where they are. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I guess the question 18 would be, if the County were to be engaged in this program 19 and -- and expressed a willingness to assist people in 20 categories such as you, would that property continue to be 21 available for low- and moderate-income rent? 22 MR. WOODS: That was the plan. That's the 23 area that it's -- that, you know, surrounds it; that's the 24 type of people that live there. That's their level of 25 income. And we didn't have them gouged. We weren't -- 7-30-02 25 1 weren't charging mountains of rent. We intend to keep it 2 that way as long as it's financially stable enough that we 3 can -- can do it. And my other thing I'm looking for is 4 some help downstream. I think that the County and the 5 City -- and somebody needs to -- and I don't know who this 6 is. I -- see, I'm not that stupid, but somebody needs to 7 take the authority to say, City, you've got a rule that says 8 if you got weeds growing up on your property, if you don't 9 cut them -- and we give you a tag that says you better cut 10 them. If you don't, we're going to come cut them, and we're 11 going to bill you for it, and we're going to put it on your 12 property as a lien. And if you sell that house, we're going 13 to collect our lien off of the sale of that house 14 eventually. I mean, they've got a leverage to make you 15 financially get in there and cut your grass. Well, I don't 16 see anything different between the grass growing up in the 17 front yard and trees growing up in the creek bed behind. To 18 me, it's the same thing. And if people -- they give me the 19 argument -- they say, well, that's all private property back 20 there. We'd have to go in and get permission from 21 everybody's property all the way downstream. I say no, you 22 don't. You got a law; enforce it. These -- they're 23 supposed to keep it clean. Do it. They didn't. That's 24 what they get paid for. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think, on that 7-30-02 26 1 issue -- 2 MR. WOODS: Mr. Patterson has been very 3 helpful. I have to admit that he and his people have 4 been -- been extremely helpful, contrary to what this 5 gentleman had. But they've been, at least verbally so far, 6 very helpful. Anyhow, that's my -- that's my plan. I thank 7 you for your time. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, if we reduce it 9 to the bottom line, you too would be in favor of the County 10 participating in this program? 11 MR. WOODS: Yes, sir, I think to help all the 12 people, and not just me. Poor Mr. -- god, I can't remember 13 his name. My gentleman next to me. The poor man, he was -- 14 and his kids were on the front page of the paper. He got 15 wiped out. He took 6 feet of water right through the 16 bedroom; nearly washed him out the window. I mean, it was 17 horrible, and the old man spent hundreds and hundreds of 18 hours in there bricking his house -- rocking his house and 19 fixing this and doing that. It was his home. He's 85 years 20 old. What does he do next? You know, it' hard to imagine. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Commissioners? 22 Anybody have anything to say? Buster? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Jonathan? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't want to get 7-30-02 27 1 into it, other than I got beat up twice today about the City 2 cleaning out the creeks. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is your third 4 time. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You weren't beating up 6 on me, were you? 7 MR. WOODS: No. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, just two. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Jonathan? 10 MR. WOODS: Friendly reminder. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that we probably 12 need to proceed down the path to apply to get the Disaster 13 Assistance funding, because, I mean, if two people came, 14 there are probably, you know, ten times that number in the 15 community that would like or need the assistance. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think so. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And weren't able to make 18 it to the meeting tonight. 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Sure. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, I think the purpose 21 was to see -- 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Only thing I'm a 23 little concerned about that I would add to that is that this 24 is a relatively long process, and it sounds like there are 25 some shorter-term problems, and perhaps we might be able to 7-30-02 28 1 have some luck in dealing with the City, if we talk to them. 2 I mean, I think if the same situation were to come before 3 this Court, that we would grant some variances on septic 4 systems and those kinds of things, put it back in operation 5 pending whatever happens after Home grants and all of that 6 are made later on. Then we can talk about some of these 7 other things. But -- 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would think so. 9 Eric, do you have anything else you need or want to add? 10 MR. HARTZELL: All set. Here are your copies 11 for -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It would be my plan 13 to have an agenda item on the Court's agenda for the 22nd 14 for Commissioners and the Judge to consider regarding our 15 applying as a prerequisite for that. This was the public 16 hearing, correct? 17 MR. HARTZELL: Yeah, this will be to apply 18 for the 25 percent FEMA match on your public assistance. As 19 we mentioned, the Home -- the Home -- the housing money 20 won't be around for a couple more months, but through the -- 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: On the 12th, you're 22 talking about, right? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: 12th. You said 22nd. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm sorry, the 12th. 7-30-02 29 1 All right. 2 MR. HARTZELL: The 25 percent on your FEMA 3 disaster assistance. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Eric, on the disaster 5 assistance, a couple of months down the road, what will the 6 timetable be once that application is made available? 7 MR. HARTZELL: Okay. On the housing -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah -- yes. 9 MR. HARTZELL: -- program? Okay. What we've 10 seen with Medina County, as an example, this -- this is run 11 by a different agency than the -- than the grants you're 12 used to getting here at the county. It's run by the 13 Department of Housing and Community Affairs, and so things 14 move a little slower at that agency. Probably, we would be 15 looking at getting a grant approved around Christmas. 16 Turning it in October, getting it approved maybe a month 17 later, and then actual money being available to assist 18 people in the spring. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, the earliest that 20 we'll really help these -- 21 MR. HARTZELL: It's going to be a while, 22 yeah. It will be six months. 23 MR. WOODS: So, I just keep the grass cut and 24 get rid of the mosquitoes. I have to do that. I mean, 25 that's -- that's intelligent, as well as mandatory. 7-30-02 30 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We shouldn't delay 2 our application process, though, should we? 3 MR. HARTZELL: Okay. No. Again, the Home 4 Program will be pushed back a little ways because of the 5 housing agency, but the assistance for your infrastructure 6 damage, we can proceed with that at your next court meeting. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The public assistance? 8 MR. HARTZELL: That's correct. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Anyone else wish to 10 speak? 11 MR. WOODS: That's infrastructure -- 12 MR. HARTZELL: County roads and bridges, 13 exactly. 14 MR. WOODS: It has nothing to do with 15 housing? 16 MR. HARTZELL: That's right. 17 MR. DONAGHE: Are you aware of any government 18 programs that are going to be applied for now? 19 MR. HARTZELL: For housing? 20 MR. DONAGHE: Yeah. Is there any kind of -- 21 MR. HARTZELL: Other than FEMA assistance 22 that you have -- 23 MR. DONAGHE: Other than that. 24 MR. HARTZELL: That is the program that is 25 available. I'm not aware of anything else right now. 7-30-02 31 1 MR. DONAGHE: Okay. 2 MR. HARTZELL: Sorry. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Any other questions 4 or anyone wish to speak in this public hearing? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, a question. Eric 6 may or may not know the answer to this, but I know other 7 people have asked. Once FEMA makes a decision, it's 8 basically impossible to appeal it; I've heard that. And, I 9 mean, anybody -- and there seems to be not a -- I don't 10 know, instances where two people applied for basically the 11 exact same situations; one gets approved and the other is 12 not, and the person who's not cannot get their application 13 re -- relooked at, basically. Is there any way that you 14 know of, or a way to -- how do you proceed through the -- 15 MR. HARTZELL: Individual assistance? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you have any idea? 17 MR. HARTZELL: To be honest, I'm not an 18 expert on that portion of it, on the individual assistance 19 for FEMA. I would -- I would be surprised if there isn't 20 some sort of appeal process, but I don't know what it is. 21 Usually with this kind of program, there'd be some way of 22 appealing by a certain date, maybe within a certain amount 23 of time, but I don't -- I don't know. There should be a -- 24 there's a center here in town that's been set up, and they 25 should be able to let everybody know about the appeal 7-30-02 32 1 process. They should be able to do that. 2 MR. WOODS: They had me, and they've been 3 very helpful. But -- and it went fast. 4 MR. DONAGHE: The appeal went fast, but it's 5 been sitting on some so-and-so's desk for three weeks. This 6 Friday will be the third week. I know that it's on the 7 man's desk to make the decision -- or a person; I don't know 8 who it is. It's been on that desk for -- as of this Friday 9 will be three weeks. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: On a FEMA person or a 11 City person? 12 MR. DONAGHE: FEMA. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A FEMA person. 14 MR. DONAGHE: And once -- and you better 15 watch who you say to go ahead and start that, because once 16 they do, you're out of the loop for any help. You're just 17 in limbo. Red Cross, Salvation Army, you're in limbo. 18 You're stuck. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Anyone else wish to 20 speak in the public hearing regarding this matter? If not, 21 this Commissioners Court meeting is adjourned. 22 (Public Hearing adjourned at 6:44 p.m.) 23 - - - - - - - - - - 24 25 7-30-02 33 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 5 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 6 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 7 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 6th day of August, 8 2002. 9 10 11 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 12 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 13 Certified Shorthand Reporter 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 7-30-02