1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Special Session 10 Monday, November 25, 2002 11 6:30 p.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: FREDERICK L. HENNEKE, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 LARRY GRIFFIN, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X November 25, 2002 2 PAGE --- Commissioners Comments 3 3 1.1 Pay Bills 8 1.2 Budget Amendments 9 4 1.3 Late Bills 16 1.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 18 5 2.1 Kerr County Historical Commission 2002 annual 6 report -- 2.2 Presentation by Bill Stacy regarding upgrade 7 of septic system at residence he is selling 19 2.3 911 Addressing Coordinator's report 23 8 2.4 Approval of proposed Kerr Emergency 911 Network budget for FY 2003 27 9 2.7 Final plat approval for Live Springs Ranch with variance from Kerr County Subdivision Rules 32 10 2.8 Discuss condominium project and how it applies to Kerr County Subdivision Rules 38 11 2.10 Approval of 2003 Kerr County Market Days agreement, authorize County Judge to sign 50 12 2.5 PUBLIC HEARING - cancellation of Pleasure Cliff Subdivision 52 13 2.6 Cancellation of Pleasure Cliff Subdivision 54 2.11 Take appropriate action on easement agreement 14 between Riverhill Country Club, Inc., and City of Kerrville 55 15 2.9 Award bid for lease of motor grader with scarifier, authorize County Attorney to review 16 sample contract, authorize County Judge to sign 60 2.12 Take appropriate action on setting date for a 17 Disaster Assistance Workshop as a prerequisite for applying for HOME Disaster Assistance funds 62 18 2.13 Discuss hiring Tom Pollard or other outside counsel to advise Commissioners Court on 19 whether it may engage outside counsel to pursue collection of existing and outstanding judgments 20 nisi 66 2.14 Schedule annual Christmas luncheon, designate 21 Commissioners Court Coordinator as person in charge of organizing event 84 22 --- Adjourned 92 23 24 25 3 1 On Monday, November 25, 2002, at 6:30 p.m., a special 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Good evening, everyone. It's 8 6:30 in the evening on Monday, November 25th, Year 2002. 9 We'll call to order this regular special session of the Kerr 10 County Commissioners Court. I believe Commissioner Williams 11 has the honors this evening. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Will you please rise 13 and join me in a moment of prayer and the pledge of 14 allegiance to the flag? 15 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you, Commissioner. At 17 this time, any citizen wishing to address the Court on an 18 item not listed on the regular agenda may come forward and 19 do so. Is there any citizen who would like to address the 20 Court on an item not listed on the regular agenda? Seeing 21 none, we'll turn to the Commissioners' comments, and start 22 with Commissioner Williams. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I've always been told 24 that in life, a major fire that destroys your house is 25 tantamount to a death in your family. That happened in Kerr 11-25-02 4 1 County in Center Point a little over a week ago, where the 2 home of Dora Townsend, beautiful two-story home full of 3 antiques, life-long treasures that she and her husband had 4 gathered up from around the world, burned to the ground. 5 Those things happen, and our volunteer fire departments work 6 very diligently to try to contain fires of this nature. 7 Sometimes they run up against situations that are just 8 absolutely not containable, no matter what they try to do. 9 I think that probably was the case this time in Center 10 Point, where Mrs. Townsend watched her home completely 11 become destroyed. And the valiant fire department was out 12 there doing its best, with limited resources. I don't mean 13 financial resources. I mean they had their equipment there, 14 they had their tanker there, and they had their hoses there, 15 and they fought diligently, but a fire of this magnitude was 16 just something that was probably not possible for them to 17 get on top of. Not only did it go quickly, it was metal 18 siding; they couldn't get the water in. The metal roof, the 19 water didn't come down. But the illness of Colonel Townsend 20 before his death had left some six or seven oxygen tanks in 21 that house, and when the fire got to the oxygen tanks, you 22 can imagine what happened in that home. 23 Anyhow, it -- this is to say thank to you our 24 fire department for doing a good job, but it also is to kind 25 of say to our colleagues, when we look at volunteer fire 11-25-02 5 1 departments' budgets in the ensuing year, it might not be a 2 bad idea if we work with them and talk them through their 3 equipment. I think there's not a single fire department out 4 there that probably couldn't use another tanker, or maybe we 5 have some kind of a tanker in reserve someplace that helps 6 these people do their job in situations like this. Anyhow, 7 just some food for thought. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you, Commissioner. 9 Anything else? Commissioner Letz? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I drive by Ms. Townsend's 11 house frequently, and it's very sad when you see it. I echo 12 your concerns and statements. But, on a different note, I 13 hate to get to football before Commissioner Baldwin gets to 14 it, but the Comfort Bobcats -- I won't talk about Tivy, but 15 the Comfort Bobcats are continuing with their run to the 16 playoffs; had another very successful outing last week. The 17 Kerrville Daily Times look at it as the -- the pass versus 18 the run, and it appears the run clearly prevailed. Comfort 19 doesn't pass, ever. But they still managed to run up, I 20 think, 700-some-odd yards in that game and win the game. 21 Couple very good runs. And my other comment, baseball is 22 right around the corner, and I want to offer my 23 congratulations to a young man in our community, currently 24 at Midland Junior College. His uncle's in the audience 25 right now in the back row. Kyle Yates signed a letter of 11-25-02 6 1 intent with University of Texas; will be playing in Austin 2 next year. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Along with your 4 nephew. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Along with my nephew. I 6 was very happy to hear about Kyle. Great kid, great family. 7 I know they're proud of him, even if he is going to 8 University of Texas. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And the physical 10 therapy Delly's got to go through to learn how to do this 11 (indicating). 12 AUDIENCE: Don't tell Delly, okay? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. They haven't 14 let Delly know yet. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Commissioner Griffin? 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I want to defer to 17 Commissioner Baldwin, because I know he may go along for a 18 while, and I do want to hear all about the Tivy football 19 team. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, the only thing I 21 wanted to say about it is, of course, we're the best. And 22 there's been some confusion about the next game, and I want 23 to clear that up. The next game is this Friday at 4 o'clock 24 in the Alamodome against Corpus Christi Calallen. That's 25 all I'm going to say. 11-25-02 7 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And smirk -- and then 2 smirk. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And grin real big. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Deservedly so. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Couple things that I'd like 6 to say. I'd also like to comment on the fire in 7 Ms. Townsend's home. It was a terrible loss of memories and 8 antiques. And y'all may not have known, but Colonel 9 Townsend made and painted his own lead soldiers and did the 10 research and had battalions and regiments and famous 11 battles, and all those were lost. But one of the real 12 tragic things about it that I took away after talking to 13 Mrs. Townsend this past week is the fact that the she was 14 standing there watching the firefighters fight the fire when 15 they ran out of water, because the tankers ran dry. And 16 there was no other source of water other than to take about 17 20 minutes and run to the river and refill. And by then, it 18 was too late, and so they had to use what few water 19 resources they had left at that time to make sure the fire 20 didn't spread to adjoining properties. And I think that 21 reminds us all of our obligations to people who provide for 22 the needs of the county to seriously consider the needs of 23 water and wastewater services in those areas of the county 24 where it's justified and justifiable, much like what we're 25 doing in Kerrville South. It's a terrible loss and we're 11-25-02 8 1 all glad that Dora and Angel and her son are all right, but 2 we need to keep in mind the needs of people as we move 3 through our priority list. 4 The other thing I want to do is give a huge 5 thanks to the Courthouse Lighting Committee: General 6 Schellhase, Jim Murphy, Ray Lehmann, Bill Williams, and all 7 those people I'm forgetting about, for the beautiful display 8 outside. It's really wonderful; keeps getting better year 9 after year after year. And, along those lines, we owe a 10 huge thanks to Glenn Holekamp and Mike Smart and the 11 Maintenance Department here at Kerr County for all of their 12 efforts in making sure that the electrical work and 13 everything was done all right -- all right and on time. 14 Additionally, we want to thank Sheriff Hierholzer and the 15 trustee program out at the jail, because many of the 16 prisoners who are eligible spent quite a bit of time 17 assisting with putting the lights up, setting up for the 18 lighting ceremony this past Saturday, and doing the yard 19 care and general maintenance in order to make the courthouse 20 look its best at the holidays, and I certainly think it 21 shows us as well, and it's something we should all -- all be 22 very proud of. 23 So, with that, let's go to work and pay some 24 bills. Mr. Auditor, do we have some bills to pay? Anyone 25 have any questions or comments regarding the bills as 11-25-02 9 1 presented? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have a comment. I 3 move we pay the bills. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I second that. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 6 Baldwin, second by Commissioner Williams, that the Court 7 authorize payment of the bills as presented and recommended 8 by the Auditor. Any questions or comments? If not, all in 9 favor, raise your right hand. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Budget 14 Amendment Request Number 1 is for the County Court at Law. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. This amendment is from 16 Judge Brown to transfer $1,520.75 from his Court-Appointed 17 Attorney line item to Court-Appointed Services. It's for a 18 transcript. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 22 Williams, second by Commissioner Griffin, that the Court 23 approve County Court at Law -- Budget Amendment Request 24 Number 1 relating to County Court at Law. Any questions or 25 comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 11-25-02 10 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Budget 5 Amendment Request Number 2 is for J.P. -- J.P. Precinct 1. 6 MR. TOMLINSON: This request is from the 7 Judge to transfer $400 from his Secretary's Salary line item 8 to Office Supplies. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And how does that 10 work, that -- that there is an extra $400 in Secretary's 11 line? 12 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, he starts a new 13 secretary at a grade less than the current one. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure. So moved. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I'll second. Then I 16 have a question. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 18 Baldwin, second by Commissioner Griffin, that the Court 19 approve Budget Amendment Request Number 1 for J.P. 1. 20 Question, Commissioner Griffin? 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I'm just curious how 22 you end up with a zero Office Supplies budget less than a 23 month into the -- into the budget. Have we had big 24 expenditures? In other words, have we spent 16 -- 25 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't have all those 11-25-02 11 1 records with me. I'd have to research that one, 2 Commissioner. 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I'm just curious. 4 I'll -- I've seconded the motion and I'll vote in favor of 5 the amendment, but it just seems strange that you're in 6 the -- we just started a new budget and it's got a zero 7 balance for office supplies. Maybe it was just a budgeting 8 error that we didn't put in -- well, no, we had $1,600 in 9 there, it says. Does anybody share my same curiosity? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. I'm just 11 scared to ask those kind of questions. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Maybe he bought for 13 the entire year. Let us hope he did. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: It could have to do with 15 having to obtain new stationary because of the change in 16 personnel. But that's a lot of money to spend in five 17 weeks. 18 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't have the backup on 19 it, so I don't know. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: As I recall, didn't we 21 take money out of this line item? I'm sure the money went 22 out of this for a budget amendment last time because of a -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That was constable. 24 We've done that in the constable. 25 MR. TOMLINSON: In the constable's. 11-25-02 12 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I thought we did it for 2 -- we did that for Vance, too, because his -- he's on an odd 3 cycle with his bonding, because he was appointed and then 4 elected. As I recall, it was something like that, the last 5 meeting. 6 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't know. 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: If we can get an 8 answer, I'd just like to -- I'm curious as to -- but I think 9 we can go ahead and approve it. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other questions or 11 comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 3 is 16 for the Tax Assessor. 17 MR. TOMLINSON: This amendment is -- is to 18 actually increase the budget. We have -- we have a refund 19 from some mortgage companies. We have had to do some 20 maintenance on our software package for the Tax Collector 21 for -- for their -- for the mortgage company's use. They're 22 reimbursing us for that -- for that maintenance or that 23 update, so my amendment is to increase the Software 24 Maintenance line item in the Tax Collector's budget, with a 25 corresponding increase in the revenues. 11-25-02 13 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: So we're going to increase 2 the revenues by -- by the $68,000 or by the $4,988? 3 MR. TOMLINSON: By the $4,988. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: We're going to increase the 5 revenues by $4,988, and simultaneously increase the Software 6 Maintenance budget for the Tax Collector -- 7 MR. TOMLINSON: $4,950. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner Letz, 11 second by Commissioner Griffin, that the Court increase the 12 budget by the amount of $4,988 from refunds, and 13 simultaneously increase the Software Maintenance budget for 14 Tax Assessor by the amount of $4,950. Questions or 15 comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Item Number 20 4 is for the Maintenance Department. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. We received the FEMA 22 funds for the repair out at the -- at the Ag -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Goat barn. 24 MR. TOMLINSON: At the Extension Office. 25 That's for -- I get mixed up on the Ag Barn and Extension 11-25-02 14 1 Office, but it's for the repairs on that. And, at budget 2 time we did not know, I remember, what that amount would be, 3 so this -- this amendment is to increase the Major Repairs 4 line item by $11,116.74 for maintenance. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 8 Baldwin, second by Commissioner Williams, that the Court 9 increase the major repairs budget in the Maintenance 10 Department by the amount of $11,116.74, with the funds to 11 come from FEMA reimbursement. Questions or comments? If 12 not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Item Number 17 5 is for Information Technology. 18 MR. TOMLINSON: This is to transfer $59.96 19 from Contingency, Nondepartmental, to Operating Equipment 20 in -- in the Information Technology budget to replace a 21 monitor. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner Letz, 25 second by Commissioner Griffin, that the Court approve 11-25-02 15 1 Budget Amendment Request Number 5 for Information 2 Technology. Any questions or comments? If not, all in 3 favor, raise your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Budget 8 Amendment Request Number 6 is for the Road and Bridge 9 Department. 10 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. We've also received 11 the FEMA funds for the administrative portion of the -- the 12 FEMA project. That totals $7,247.12. We're in -- this 13 budget amendment increases the revenues by that amount in 14 the Municipal Management System account line item for -- for 15 a corresponding amount. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 19 Williams, second by Commissioner Letz, that the Court 20 approve Budget Amendment Request Number 6 to increase the 21 Municipal Management System budget in the Road and Bridge 22 Unit System budget by the amount of $7,247.12, with such 23 funds to come from FEMA reimbursement. Any questions or 24 comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11-25-02 16 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Do we have 4 any late bills? 5 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes, we do. First one is to 6 Sandra Trolinger for $400.40, payment from J.P. 1's budget 7 for part-time contract services. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for approval. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 11 Baldwin, second by Commissioner Griffin, that the Court 12 approve a late bill and hand check in the amount of $440 13 payable to Sandra Trolinger for part-time contract services 14 for J.P. 1. Questions or comments? If not, all in favor, 15 raise your right hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Any others? 20 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. The next one is to 21 Browning-Ferris Industries for $629. It's for the payment 22 of -- of their standard service at the Little League field 23 at Comfort, and it's for the time period of the -- of the 24 abatement of -- of -- after the flood. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That large dumpster for 11-25-02 17 1 the flood. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So moved. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 5 Griffin, second by Commissioner Letz, that the Court 6 authorize a late bill and hand check in the amount of $629 7 payable to the order of Browning-Ferris Industries. 8 Questions or comments? If not, all in favor, raise your 9 right hand. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Any more? 14 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. The next one is to Ford 15 Motor Credit for $53,526.46, and it's the initial payment on 16 six 2003 Ford patrol vehicles. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 20 Williams, second by Commissioner Baldwin, that the Court 21 approve a late bill and hand check in the amount of 22 $53,526.46 payable to the order of Ford Motor Credit. Any 23 questions or comments? If not, all in favor, raise your 24 right hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11-25-02 18 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. 4 MR. TOMLINSON: The last one is to Barbara 5 Nemec in the amount of $296.06. It's for conference expense 6 reimbursement. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 11 Baldwin, second by Commissioner Letz, that the Court 12 authorize a late bill and hand check in the amount of 13 $296.06 payable to Barbara Nemec for conference expenses. 14 Any questions or comments? If not, all in favor, raise your 15 right hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Thank you, 20 Tommy. At this time, I would entertain a motion to approve 21 and accept the monthly reports as presented. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner Letz, 25 second by Commissioner Griffin, that the Court approve and 11-25-02 19 1 accept the monthly reports as presented. Any questions or 2 comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. All right 7 let's turn our attention to the consideration agenda. 8 (Discussion off the record.) 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: See if there's anyone 10 here. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Is there anyone here from the 12 Historical Commission? 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: If not, we'll pass over that 15 one and come back to it. Let's go to Item Number 2, 16 consider and discuss a presentation by Bill Stacy on the 17 upgrade of a septic system in a residence he's selling. 18 Commissioner Griffin. 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes. Is Judge Stacy 20 here? Yep, he's here. And he's got some words or other 21 information for us, I think. 22 MR. STACY: Gentlemen, thank you for letting 23 me appear to talk to you about a problem that we had with 24 our septic system. As a former public servant, I always 25 believed that you're to solve problems and not create 11-25-02 20 1 problems. And I ran right straight into a terrible problem, 2 and I think it should be brought to the attention of the 3 Court. When I was County Judge, we set up some rules for 4 the septic systems, and we had our own department that ran 5 that. I presume that we had very few problems. Some 6 problems did come to the Court, and we tried to work them 7 out with -- with our County employee. When I -- my wife is 8 in the real estate business; she works for Coldwell Banker, 9 and she wanted -- when we were going to sell our house and 10 downsize, she wanted a licensed septic system. In my little 11 subdivision out there, we've -- we have half a dozen 12 different state-authorized systems. I have a system that 13 was put in 23 years ago, and been working perfectly fine. 14 As a matter of fact, when the man pumped it out, he said it 15 was great looking. We've had no problems. However, I 16 didn't figure on the obstinace of U.G.R.A. And U.G.R.A. 17 wants to hide behind the rules that the Court has adopted, 18 and this is Chapter 285, and it is -- I guess the word would 19 be Byzantine. It is unreal, or what's in it. I was helped 20 in my quest for common sense by Larry Griffin, Calvin 21 Weinheimer, and Joe Armistead. Other than that, I did get a 22 little bit of help from Jim Brown, but if you look on your 23 correspondence there, Jim Brown wrote a very lengthy letter 24 to me, which I answered truthfully in -- in my letter that 25 answered his letter. He wrote back and said, Mr. Stacy, 11-25-02 21 1 don't bother sending any more, and just shut up and -- and 2 put in a system that we can approve. I was told that a 3 system that they will approve is a little dosing, which runs 4 about $6,000. I got a good price from Bennett Jordan, and 5 Bennett -- and I said, Well, Bennett, look, I have two tanks 6 below there. If you look in those pictures there, you see 7 where we had -- below our two tanks, where we could have put 8 in a gravity-flow system. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Bill, are you telling 10 us we have pictures of your septic tank here? 11 MR. STACY: Yeah, on this. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is exciting. 13 Thank you so much. 14 MR. STACY: It ought to excite you. Anyway, 15 I'm trying to get up to the point, Buster, is that what you 16 have -- the rules that they've dropped on me are not working 17 to the best interests of the community. And their employees 18 have no concept of what a leach line is. They don't realize 19 that a leach line allows water to evaporate up and not go 20 down. If you -- if you put a leach line in this floor, you 21 have changed the whole floor -- size of it, and you put a 22 leach line there and it's different. But these rules do not 23 call for it. So, gentlemen, my whole sad story, when I 24 asked you for -- for relief and didn't get it, I had to play 25 their game. And their game is an expensive game. It's an 11-25-02 22 1 uncompromising game, and there's no common sense. And I 2 would suggest to you that you revise these rules to where 3 they make common sense, and where they're not penalizing the 4 people. Because, before they ever came on my property, 5 Stuart -- this guy, Stuart Barron, told me the system I had 6 put in, and it had never been there. And from there, 7 everything went downhill. So, I'm asking you to revise 8 these rules as we did when -- when I was judge. We asked a 9 lot of people; we had a lot of input, as far as I'm 10 concerned. I don't know how much input came from the 11 general public for these rules, but it's costly, and I ask 12 you that -- don't cause any more grief to -- 'cause there is 13 a lot of grief out there on -- on these rules. So, that's 14 it, gentlemen. And if y'all have any questions -- I know 15 that you don't want to read all this, but, believe me, a lot 16 of thought went into this thing, and common sense was in 17 short supply. Any questions? 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Judge, I have just -- 19 just one, because you and I -- the numerous times we've 20 spoken on this, I've never asked the question. Was -- was 21 there a particular reason that you wanted to put a licensed 22 system in? Because the rules do not require that you do 23 that. The property could have been sold with the system 24 as-is. 25 MR. STACY: I understand that. My wife -- my 11-25-02 23 1 wife, as a realtor, insisted on a licensed system. And, you 2 know, I'm not going to argue with her. 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay, I got you. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's easier to argue 5 with us than it is to argue with her? 6 MR. STACY: It's a lot better. It's a lot 7 better, believe me. 8 (Laughter.) 9 MR. STACY: And I know that -- that this is 10 something that -- that has been discussed, but I've been 11 there. And I got my Ph.D. at Camp Mystic on septic systems 12 when I was 14 years old, and to have these people treat me 13 the way I was treated, I don't -- I don't appreciate it. 14 So, I hope that you can revise these rules to where you can 15 put some common sense into it. Thank you, gentlemen. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. I'd like to point 17 out to everyone that the rules that Judge Stacy's talking 18 about are the rules promulgated by the State of Texas and 19 are the minimum rules that the County has to adopt, unless 20 we justify to the T.C.E.Q. changes in these rules. 21 MR. STACY: Well, they can be changed. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: The rules of which Judge 23 Stacy are complaining are the rules that are set by the 24 Texas Committee on Environmental Quality. Next item is Item 25 Number 3, consider and discuss the 911 Addressing 11-25-02 24 1 Coordinator's report. And this is truly exciting, 2 Commissioner 1. It really is. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, it is exciting. 4 And Commissioner Griffin and I have met several times and 5 interviewed several people, and we wanted to bring our new 6 addressing coordinator to the court to introduce him to you 7 all and the general public, and ask -- as well, ask him kind 8 of to give us a little report of some sort about what he has 9 done so far. So, we'd like to introduce Jim Bullock. Jim, 10 would you stand up and come to the podium, please? 11 MR. BULLOCK: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is our new 911 13 Addressing Coordinator. 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Might I just add 15 that -- that Jim is still getting up to speed on all the 16 nuances of the addressing system, but he's done an excellent 17 job of coordinating with the right people -- Cindy Guerrero 18 in San Antonio and, of course, the members of the 911 19 Network Board -- and I think he's starting to really get a 20 good handle on all of this, and I think we'll see a big 21 improvement on the production, as far as getting addressing 22 done and people notified. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The log jams and the 24 pigs in the pipes and all those things are going to go away 25 soon. 11-25-02 25 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Take it away, Jim. 2 MR. BULLOCK: Just the past couple of weeks, 3 I feel like there has been a lot of progress made, and 4 particularly the communication aspect of different entities 5 that's involved. And the 911 system has been real helpful 6 in showing me the various things that they're doing. And -- 7 and they're doing a whole lot out there, but it's going to 8 still take some more work on everybody's part, but I think 9 they'll come along fast now. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Does anyone have any 11 questions? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Jim, have you been around 13 or looked into it long enough to know about how long it will 14 take you to, I guess, be familiar enough to give the Court a 15 report and kind of a timetable and schedule as to -- with 16 some dates and deadlines and things of that nature that we 17 can expect to get areas of the county completed? 18 MR. BULLOCK: I haven't reached that point 19 yet. We're getting there, but we haven't made it yet. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, sometime -- do you 21 think the first -- end of the first quarter, possibly? 22 MR. BULLOCK: The first quarter being when? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: January, February, March. 24 MR. BULLOCK: Oh. I'll probably have a 25 report by then, yeah. 11-25-02 26 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Have you run into any 2 insurmountable problems yet? 3 MR. BULLOCK: Not that I'm aware of, I don't 4 think there is. I think we're going to be taking care of 5 most of the problems that come up. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Do you anticipate shortly 7 being able to send out these letters we've heard about 8 telling people what their new addresses are, their new 911 9 addresses? 10 MR. BULLOCK: Just certain portions of the 11 county. I was talking to Cindy Guerrero today and 12 reaffirming that the San Antonio Post Office will be sending 13 out these letters to all people, to everybody that's been 14 affected by these changes. As the groups are researched and 15 addressed by 911, and then Cindy Guerrero gets that group 16 and approves it, and then all -- everybody involved would be 17 notified at that time from San Antonio, which is -- it's 18 going to be a great savings on the County's part as far as 19 postage. 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: They've agreed to send 21 that out to as many different entities as required, so we 22 don't -- we won't have to bear the expense for that postage, 23 which is a bunch. But the pig is at least in the pipe, so 24 we're about to get him through. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Does anyone else have any 11-25-02 27 1 questions or comments of Mr. Bullock? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, sir. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: We're glad you're with us. 4 We appreciate your help. Item Number 4, consider and 5 discuss approval of the proposed Kerr County Emergency 911 6 Network budget for Fiscal Year 2003. I believe we have a 7 copy of the proposed budget in the -- in our books. 8 Mr. Ballard, are you going to speak to the budget? Are you 9 here to answer questions or what? 10 MR. BALLARD: We're not going to make any 11 presentation, but we'll be glad to answer any questions you 12 have. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Are there any questions of 14 the representatives of the 911 Emergency Network Board 15 regarding the proposed budget? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm just glad to see 17 Mr. Ballard again. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Good to see you back. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thought we'd run him off. 20 MR. BALLARD: Thank you. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Budget looks fine. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mr. Ballard, we like 23 you. 24 MR. BALLARD: I don't know whether -- how to 25 take that one. 11-25-02 28 1 (Laughter.) 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: He's learned. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's good. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: The rent situation. Y'all 5 have had to budget a substantial increase in occupancy costs 6 because of taking the whole building. Do you anticipate 7 being able to lease any portion of that and reduce those 8 costs? 9 MR. BALLARD: We're going to make that effort 10 as soon as possible. That's something we intended when we 11 took over that building. Obviously, it should have been 12 rented by now, but I'm not going backwards; I want to go 13 forward. We will put it up for lease. We'll make an 14 aggressive effort to fill those -- those empty spaces and to 15 provide ourselves some revenue. And if you -- if you notice 16 there, we went conservative, as if we weren't going to fill 17 those spaces. Of course, we intend to, and within the next 18 few months. And we've got to screen our potential 19 candidates, because we don't have -- we don't want to have a 20 sawmill next door to us. But we think there's a lot of 21 potential for attracting certain businesses, and I don't 22 think that's going to be a big problem. And I do expect 23 some revenue to come in to make that $24,000 look a little 24 smaller. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Good. 11-25-02 29 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Dave, last year I -- 2 I questioned -- and I'm not going to go into detail as I did 3 last year. 4 MR. BALLARD: Please don't. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I really was in hopes 6 that maybe this year we'd have a little bit clearer 7 understanding of the revenue stream. We have a good 8 explanation of the expenses, and there is a note in the 9 back -- I'm reading it -- that talks about the projected 10 income from District, but it doesn't break it down. And I'm 11 not asking you to do that tonight. I would -- I am, 12 however, curious about the revenue stream, and I am 13 especially curious because we're saying that it is based on 14 the final receipts of Fiscal Year '02, without the benefit 15 of any growth in revenues. 16 MR. BALLARD: I will -- I will talk about 17 that a little bit, but I might point out, I don't have a lot 18 of detail. I received this package myself this morning for 19 the first time, so -- I've been away for a while. I retired 20 for a few weeks; now I'm back. But the revenue is made up 21 by the contributions with the hard phones and the wire lease 22 phones, and there's a certain amount of money that gets 23 contributed by both those areas. Last year, that amounted 24 to about $340,000. The Board chose to use that same figure 25 this year. We have figures going back to 1996 that shows 11-25-02 30 1 the growth pattern every year in this county for those 2 revenues. Realistically, the past three years, it has 3 increased approximately $30,000 a year. There may be a 4 little flattening out this year; I'm not sure, because I 5 haven't had time to dig those things out for you this year. 6 However, if we got two-thirds of that income, two-thirds of 7 that growth this year to add to this $340,000, our deficit 8 would be minimal. The deficit was deliberate. We're not 9 going in the hole. We have reserve funds to take care of 10 it. And part of the deficit is in the capital expenditure 11 thing to take care of our -- our old equipment and the PSAP, 12 which is sorely in need of upgrade. I think if you look at 13 it from top to down, from down to top, I think you can find 14 a relatively intelligent and realistic approach to the 15 budget. And we'll be happy to go into more detail outside 16 the meeting at any time you want. I'm sorry I don't have 17 all that detail in my -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: My curiosity is only 19 that this is one of the barometers by which we have an 20 opportunity to see what's taking place in terms of growth in 21 Kerr County, and I, for one, am curious. So, anytime you 22 can share that information with us -- 23 MR. BALLARD: I have that, except for this 24 year. I got the six-year numbers here, except for this 25 year. 11-25-02 31 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If you get a moment 2 where you can pull those six together in some kind of chart, 3 I'd appreciate it. 4 MR. BALLARD: Tell you what, we'll get that 5 done this week and we'll have it to you next week. If you 6 have any questions or if it looks wormy to you, come to us; 7 we'll straighten it out. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thanks, Dave. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Does anyone else have any 10 questions or comments? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move we adopt the 12 order. 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Move we approve the 14 budget. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll second it. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 17 Griffin, second by Commissioner Williams, that the Court 18 approve the proposed Kerr Emergency 911 Network budget for 19 Fiscal Year 2003. Any questions or comments? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I'd just like 21 to say that the -- our -- this Commissioners Court's two 22 appointees to the 911 Board is also here, and I have been 23 kind of hanging out over there and snooping around with them 24 a little bit -- or hanging out with them, and we couldn't 25 ask for any two better Board members that represents this 11-25-02 32 1 Court and all the citizens of Kerr County. Thank you -- 2 both of you gentlemen for your service. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you very much. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Also appreciate you 5 coming to the meeting tonight. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes, we like to see you. Any 7 other questions or comments, kudos? If not, all in favor, 8 raise your right hand. 9 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Opposed, same sign. 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Thank you, 13 gentlemen. 14 MR. BALLARD: Thank you. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Let's turn to Item Number 7, 16 we have some time before the public hearing at 7:30. Item 17 Number 7 is consider the final plat approval for Live 18 Springs Ranch in Precinct 4, with a variance from 7.06.4, 19 Culverts, of Kerr County Subdivision Rules. Franklin 20 Johnston. 21 MR. JOHNSTON: I met with the owner and his 22 engineer for hydrology, and Lee Voelkel and Larry; we all 23 met out there, and they have one -- one item that, according 24 to their hydrologist, doesn't meet our rules, and they would 25 like a variance to that particular item, which is a culvert 11-25-02 33 1 at the entry to the subdivision. They have one culvert, and 2 according to the computer printout, it needs three culverts, 3 so I think it's 18-inch diameter. If you want to get 4 more -- more into it, I guess Lee can come up. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: While he's coming up, 6 we ought to get that -- let me just say that this -- I am 7 loath to grant variances, as this Court is aware, but this 8 is a case where I think a variance is justified. One of the 9 problems we have -- well, not problem, it's just a fact -- 10 is that the county road that's there, that's in question, is 11 -- is not a crowned road; it's very flat. For eons, or 12 since that road was built, at least, water has come down off 13 that hill and sheeted across the -- the road. It -- it 14 actually will sheet across there at almost 90 degrees to 15 this culvert in question, so that I think -- and as the 16 hydrologist mentioned to us, you could probably put five 17 18-inch culverts in there, and you probably wouldn't get 18 much more water through it, because the drainage isn't -- is 19 90 degrees to it. So, technically, it's probably a 20 variance. I think it's really -- you could almost -- and 21 I'm not a hydrologist, but you could almost turn that around 22 and say that -- that the culverts almost ought to have to go 23 across the -- the county road, which we're not going to do. 24 I don't think there's any problem with it at all, and I just 25 wanted to say that before we get the real technical data. 11-25-02 34 1 MR. JOHNSTON: I think it's also determined 2 by the topography, rather than any design that you -- it 3 might divert some of the water about, what, 50 feet down the 4 road maybe, across the road. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. In fact, there 6 is a low-water crossing that's just down the road -- the 7 county road from this. That's where the water is heading 8 to. So, it's going across our road to that low water. 9 MR. JOHNSTON: That's indicated on the map. 10 There's a small floodplain designated; that's where the low 11 water is. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: To put three pipes in 13 there just doesn't make any sense. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me say this. I 15 loathe variances as well, but that's what they're for. This 16 is what they're for. 17 MR. JOHNSTON: How much do you need to know 18 about? 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I don't have -- do we 20 need a separate motion on the variance? 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: We have to approve it with 22 the variance when we get to that point. 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Does -- this subdivision, by 25 my reading of the rules, meets one of the exceptions to the 11-25-02 35 1 Water Availability Requirements, provided that they have a 2 restriction that no more than one well can be drilled per 3 lot. Have they presented you with such a restriction? 4 MR. JOHNSTON: Do we have that on the plat, 5 Lee? 6 MR. VOELKEL: Quite frankly, I thought that's 7 one of those we had on the plat, but we'd have to check 8 that. 9 MR. JOHNSTON: I don't remember. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: I didn't see it on the plat, 11 which is the reason I brought it up. 12 MR. JOHNSTON: Would that be the place for 13 it? 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: It either would have to be on 15 the plat or on a recorded restriction. 16 MR. JOHNSTON: Is that something they could 17 letter -- letter on the plat? 18 MR. VOELKEL: If we need to put that on 19 there, yes, sir, we can certainly do that. 20 (Discussion off the record.) 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't see it on the 22 plat. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think that's probably the 24 best place for it to be, is on the plat. 25 MR. JOHNSTON: Just define one well per 11-25-02 36 1 lot -- no more than one well per lot. There were two items 2 that you were going to accomplish before we got -- 3 MR. STAUBLE: All done. 4 MR. JOHNSTON: It's all done? I didn't have 5 a chance to go out there today, but siltation, and cleared 6 out that ditch. 7 MR. STAUBLE: Cleaned out, yeah. 8 MR. JOHNSTON: So that part's done that we 9 agreed to. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah, that was -- what 11 he's talking about there is that, as a part of considering 12 -- consideration of this variance, Mr. Stauble agreed to 13 actually clean out a ditch that's in the county 14 right-of-way. So, it provides some better drainage off the 15 entire hill, particularly on the lower side. 16 MR. JOHNSTON: They were using it for a 17 temporary drive for their material storage. They've kind of 18 filled it in, so they cleaned that back out. And if you 19 grant the variance, they'd probably rather put the variance 20 number on the plat somewhere so we have that all tied 21 together, but along with that note on the wells. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I'll make a motion 23 that, contingent upon getting the -- the letter on the plat, 24 and the variance that I'm going to make a part of this 25 motion, contingent upon that, we approve the final plat for 11-25-02 37 1 Live Springs Ranch with the variance on 7.06.4 of the Kerr 2 County Subdivision Rules. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 5 Griffin, second by Commissioner Letz, that the Court grant 6 final approval for Live Springs Ranch -- final plat approval 7 for Live Springs Ranch, Precinct 4, with variance from 8 7.06.4, Culverts, of Kerr County Subdivision Rules, subject 9 to a note on the plat restricting each lot to one well per 10 lot. Any questions or comments? If not, all in favor, 11 raise your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. So, I 16 presume the plat will have to be redone, and -- 17 MR. JOHNSTON: I think that's -- 18 MR. VOELKEL: We've already got all the 19 signatures on the plat. What we'll do is add that note to 20 it, and maybe under Frank's suggestion, put the court order 21 number with a court order granted on the plat also. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: That will be fine. Then you 23 can get it to Franklin. If he approves it, he'll get it to 24 me and I'll sign off on it. Okay. Do you want to take up 25 Item Number 8 or do a couple smaller ones? 11-25-02 38 1 (Discussion off the record.) 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Let's call up Item Number 8, 3 then, consider and discuss condominium project and how it 4 applies to Kerr County Subdivision Rules. Commissioner 5 Griffin. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes. This is -- this 7 item has to do with a subdivision, Stablewood Springs Ranch, 8 that has decided to go to a condominium type of ownership, 9 and the question is -- and the question for us is that the 10 owner's attorney -- the owner and his attorney, David 11 Jackson, who is here this evening, have asserted that 12 because the condominium ownership -- there is condominium 13 ownership to be had in this place, that they are not subject 14 to Kerr County Subdivision Rules regarding platting, in 15 particular. If you'll recall, that item -- that issue came 16 before the Court. The Court unanimously said we don't agree 17 with that position. That was communicated back to 18 Mr. Jackson, and he has sent another letter saying that he 19 thinks that it does apply, but he has also offered up some 20 other possibilities, and I think that's where we are right 21 now. We are at the point where we need to make a 22 determination on our view -- specifically, the Court's 23 view -- of where we stand on this, and proceed with the 24 issue. Now, David, have you got something you want to 25 outline? The -- by the way, we do have copies of some of 11-25-02 39 1 that. 2 MR. JACKSON: Some of what I've already sent 3 in, yeah. Yeah, the issue presented to you is whether or 4 not you have, in your present regulations, specific 5 regulations that apply to a condominium concept, considering 6 that there's a condominium law that tells a particular 7 developer what he has to do, specifics with respect to the 8 condominium map, and there are many other condominiums in 9 this county that have done that. Or, in the alternative, if 10 you want to regulate the condominium, I sort of suggested 11 some things in a letter to Frank that might tend to be -- to 12 fit into the categories that -- that is of concern to you. 13 So, I'm here this evening to get some guidance and some 14 direction. Your regulations don't really tell us what to do 15 if there's a condominium. Historically, most people have 16 said when you're a condominium, you're not under the 17 regulations, and they've developed their properties without 18 any compliance. And I understood your position -- I was not 19 here the other evening when that came before you, and I'm 20 sorry I wasn't -- that you wanted to assert your right to 21 regulate that. 22 I'm standing before you this evening, and in 23 conversations with Frank, saying but there isn't any 24 regulation that tells you what to do next. And I've asked, 25 and understandably, there's not anything there. For 11-25-02 40 1 example, you can't file a conventional plat, because the 2 condominium law says you can't do something to prohibit a 3 condominium. The Condominium Act specifies exactly -- in 4 fact, in a lot of detail, under the new uniform act that's 5 in place throughout the state, what you must do to file 6 that. So, I don't think we're talking about a plat, per se. 7 We will comply with the Condominium Act, is the first point 8 of my letter. But if you want us to do some other things, 9 like roads -- as a matter of fact, we've had the roads 10 inspected, because we were going down -- until we downsized 11 the project a bit. If you want assurance on the density, 12 that's certainly fine. If you want hydrology, you know, the 13 drainage, be happy to do that; we were doing it anyway. So, 14 I'm just before you to either say no, it's right -- right, 15 you're not regulated, or you are regulated, and we don't 16 have a specific regulation for you, but here's what we'd 17 like for you to do. And I'll be happy to answer any 18 questions, of course. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: David, I see this really as a 20 two-part process. Condominium Act relates to the ownership 21 and the disclosures that anyone who develops a project as a 22 condominium must make to the owners, and the rights and 23 obligations of the owners of the property. 24 MR. JACKSON: Mm-hmm. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: It has nothing to do with 11-25-02 41 1 platting, in the sense that if the project still qualifies 2 as a subdivision, under the definition of a subdivision, it 3 must come before the Court and be approved in a plat. I 4 really think by doing a -- a condominium project of the 5 nature that your client is suggesting, he's subjecting 6 himself to both the Condominium Act and the Subdivision 7 Rules. The way I read 82.006 of the Uniform Condominium 8 Act, specifically the second sentence, allows for that. The 9 second sentence states, "this chapter does not invalidate or 10 modify any provision of any zoning, subdivision, building 11 code, or other real property use law, ordinance, or 12 regulation." So, I think that when your condominium project 13 is such that it qualifies as a subdivision, that it must 14 meet the requirements of the subdivision laws, which 15 includes platting and all those things that go along with 16 it. 17 MR. JACKSON: Then my question would be, what 18 plat do I file? 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, I think you have to 20 file two. I think you have to file a -- a map under the 21 condominium declaration, which satisfies the Condominium 22 Act. 23 MR. JACKSON: Right. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: And you also have to file a 25 plat with the County Clerk's office, which satisfies the 11-25-02 42 1 Kerr County Subdivision Rules. 2 MR. JACKSON: And I guess I don't -- you mean 3 just a one-lot subdivision? Or the -- what you're doing in 4 a condominium is, you have an undivided joint ownership of 5 all the property, except the specifics. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: But the specifics are what 7 you're selling in undivided interest, so you're actually 8 selling definable pieces of property. You're not selling 9 the whole, because everybody has an undivided interest, but 10 you're selling a defined specific piece of property. 11 MR. JACKSON: But, here, let me be more 12 precise. Your regulations have specifics about showing a 13 lot, and that's inconsistent with what a condominium permits 14 you to do. That's all I'm asking. Do I just show a -- do I 15 file the condominium compliance and say, "This is my plat"? 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: If the condominium map you're 17 filing complies with all of the Subdivision Rules. I mean, 18 it could be one lot. Yes, it could be one lot, but if 19 you're -- you know, the definition of subdivision is if 20 you're dividing property for purpose of sale that includes 21 public roads and other amenities, then that's a subdivision. 22 MR. JACKSON: Okay. I'm -- I appreciate the 23 debate. I still don't know exactly what we do. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Maybe -- 25 MR. JACKSON: I guess we'll go back -- I've 11-25-02 43 1 called around to other jurisdictions, and nobody requires 2 both. And I just can't -- I've asked the surveyor, and they 3 can't come up with something for me, so that's why I'm 4 standing here. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's -- you know, that's my 6 interpretation, is that by choosing the condominium form of 7 ownership, which is a very legitimate form, and the Court in 8 no way is trying to discourage that, in a non-municipal 9 setting, which you put yourself in a situation where you 10 have to satisfy both masters, if you will. 11 MR. JACKSON: Okay. Well, if that's the 12 Court's vote, I mean, I'll -- we'll do what -- we're not 13 here to try to avoid something. We're just trying to 14 understand. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Right, I understand. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that the -- I 17 mean, it's probably some language in other developments, 18 'cause we knew that we couldn't ever plan for everything. 19 And, Subdivision Rules, I think you'd have to get a 20 variance, is the way to do it; have a single lot and maybe a 21 variance -- variance from certain language that requires 22 certain things that don't apply. I mean, that -- but, yeah, 23 I think you have to specify where the roads are. You need 24 all the drainage work done, culverts; all that will have to 25 be done according to our rules. 11-25-02 44 1 MR. JACKSON: And we're doing that. That's 2 not an issue. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. And then locating 4 of where the structures are. In lieu of putting lots, put 5 here are the buildings and here's the number of units, you 6 know. 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Now, will the owner -- 8 will the owners actually own just the structure and the 9 ground under it? Or -- 10 MR. JACKSON: Basically, yes. There's a -- 11 in the present format, they're a little different about 12 yards and areas around -- some larger than others, you know. 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Maybe it would just -- 14 it would show those -- spell out, you'd have one big area 15 and then you would have these individual things that would 16 be zoned. Here are the roads and there's the drainage, and 17 that's it. 18 MR. JACKSON: Let us take a shot at it again. 19 It's not an issue of avoidance, it's just a question of 20 understanding. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: David? 22 MR. MOTLEY: Are you thinking about if you 23 were to show, like, individual houses or something like 24 that? And have the lawns be limited-use common property, 25 and -- we could probably make something work. I like 11-25-02 45 1 Jonathan's recommendation about seeking a variance from 2 certain aspects of subdivision laws that really don't 3 plainly jibe with what it is they're trying to do under the 4 Condominium Act. The plat for condominium purposes and the 5 plat for subdivision purposes are two different animals. 6 So, as long as they have some sort of a -- you know, a 7 document that could be filed where people could identify 8 clearly what the property interests were and what they 9 are -- this isn't a multi-unit building at all? There's no 10 multi-unit -- 11 MR. JACKSON: No. 12 MR. MOTLEY: You may not -- what is it, the 13 plan that shows the vertical? So you may not have to file a 14 plan at all. 15 MR. JACKSON: You have to file a plan. 16 You've got to show the dimensions. It's very precise in the 17 Uniform Condominium Act as to each of those dimensions for 18 each site, structure, envelope, all different things. 19 MR. MOTLEY: I believe Judge Henneke raised a 20 good point in saying that the -- you know, that the -- we 21 are having a -- reducing the size of a lot and then 22 incorporating roads and other amenities, and so the 23 Subdivision Act, as it's constituted -- our local rules seem 24 to be broad enough to -- to reach the type of project that 25 Mr. Jackson's contemplating. But, by the same token, it 11-25-02 46 1 seems that he's here seeking guidance. It might well be 2 that there's some sort of a special -- I mean, we've already 3 had a variance earlier tonight. We've seen that there might 4 be some sort of a special way that this could be handled in 5 recognition of the fact that it is going to be condominiums, 6 as long as the roads -- he said there's no problem with the 7 roads and hydrology and all that. I think those are the 8 interests that the Court has, anyway; that there's, you 9 know, some means of septic or sewage disposal and roads, 10 water, utilities. And I think that, obviously, it's going 11 to be a nice subdivision, so I'm sure they could fix all 12 those issues. And it might be that there's just specific 13 subdivision rules that we can exempt them from or -- or give 14 a variance for. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: How's the wastewater going to 16 be treated? Are you going to have a package plant? 17 MR. JACKSON: Septics. The density's much 18 lower, so septics will work. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: But are the lots going to be 20 large enough -- 21 MR. JACKSON: The -- 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- for a septic on each 23 individual unit, or are you going to have agreements where 24 the drain fields are going to be on the common areas? 25 MR. JACKSON: Yes, the latter. 11-25-02 47 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Commingle. 2 MR. JACKSON: We'd already -- even in the 3 preliminary plat, we were in that mode, the preliminary plat 4 which you've already approved. We were already doing some 5 of that. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: You're going to have a 7 central water system? 8 MR. JACKSON: Yes. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Community water system? 10 MR. JACKSON: Yes. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: David, I would think that 12 you would probably -- or it may be a good idea, just to get 13 everyone clear as to -- you know, I'm certainly glad to work 14 things with Larry and Franklin, trying to figure out what 15 needs to be on there, try to come up with a plat. 16 MR. JACKSON: Right. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think it's better, 18 probably, to revise your preliminary plat. 19 MR. JACKSON: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Obviously, it's going to 21 be a very different animal than we first looked at, so I 22 think we can try to go through it together, what needs to be 23 on it, but just the areas -- just like David summed it up, 24 hydrology, utilities, things like that. We need to follow 25 our Subdivision Rules. It does qualify as a subdivision, 11-25-02 48 1 but just, you know, grant a variance for certain things that 2 clearly don't apply. 3 MR. JACKSON: Okay, I think that gives me 4 help. To revise the preliminary plat, cut it back to what 5 we're going to do, and as to those specific technical items 6 that are not technically in compliance, we'll just come back 7 to you, okay? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 9 MR. JACKSON: Is that the consensus? 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That we could handle 11 it under the current rule, and then perhaps in the next 12 rewrite, we might be able to address it. If you can look -- 13 if, in that process, we find there are things that the 14 condominium subdivision -- 15 MR. JACKSON: Right. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I don't want to mix 17 words here, but if there -- if there is something that's 18 common, that we know would not ever apply in a condominium 19 ownership situation, then we can probably write that into 20 the rules to clarify it, so we don't have to go through this 21 again next time. 22 MR. JACKSON: The greatest conflict's going 23 to come in the definition of a lot versus a unit under the 24 Condominium Act, and how that dovetails. Just different 25 terminology and different concepts. 11-25-02 49 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: If we can show that on 2 the preliminary and use the language out of the Condominium 3 Act, that may -- 4 MR. JACKSON: What we'll probably do is take 5 the preliminary plat, revise it, make it look just like 6 what's attached to the condominium declaration, which is 7 required by the Condominium Act. And I respect the fact 8 that you're suggesting that there's two, but the lawyer in 9 me would rather have them look almost the same so that there 10 isn't confusion, 'cause you're not going to sell off the 11 plat. Now, let's make that -- the ownership, when you go to 12 sign a deed, it's not the unit shown on the plat. Can't be. 13 It has to be the unit shown on the condominium declaration. 14 So, this plat is -- it's there, and it demonstrates, I 15 suppose, the Court's approval of the key issues of 16 regulation of the -- the subdivision, if you want to look at 17 it that way. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Quick question. Does 19 the condominium declaration show roads and all that on it? 20 MR. JACKSON: It can. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Doesn't have to. 22 MR. JACKSON: Doesn't have to. 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Doesn't have to, but 24 yours does -- this particular one does. 25 MR. JACKSON: Well, I think somebody said a 11-25-02 50 1 moment ago, you -- I think David probably said it. You are 2 trying to present something that somebody's going to 3 understand. You're not going to kind of try to hide the 4 ball. You're showing them as much as you can to explain 5 what it is. But I appreciate the guidance; you've helped me 6 a lot. I can take that, and we'll see if we can come up 7 with something. So -- 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. 9 MR. JACKSON: -- thanks. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Thank you. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Let's take up Item Number 10 13 before we do our public hearing, which is consider and 14 discuss approval of the 2003 Kerr County Market Days 15 agreement and authorize County Judge to sign same. 16 Mr. Motley? I believe this is yours, Item Number 10? 17 MR. MOTLEY: About the Riverhill easement? 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: No, this is about the Market 19 Days. 20 MR. MOTLEY: Okay, the Market Days. We have 21 sent -- I believe the members of the Court all have a copy 22 of the revised agreement for Year 2003. I've sent that to 23 Ms. Anderson. She has approved it. We've gone back and 24 forth with a couple of suggestions, and not a lot of 25 substantive change from the 2002 agreement. And if the 11-25-02 51 1 Court would like to ask any questions about it, I'll be 2 happy to answer to the best of my ability, or refer you to 3 Ms. Anderson. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Ms. Anderson, anything you'd 5 like to say to us this evening? Always glad to see you. 6 MS. ANDERSON: Thank you. Good to be here. 7 So, thank you to Mr. Motley for his help in pulling this all 8 together so very quickly for us. He got it to me, and we've 9 reviewed it and discussed it, and we're just fine and ready 10 to go. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anyone have any questions of 12 Mr. Motley or Ms. Anderson? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I move that we 14 approve the 2003 Kerr County Market Days agreement and 15 authorize you to sign the same document. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 18 Baldwin, second by Commissioner Letz, that the Court approve 19 the 2003 Kerr County Market Days usage license agreement and 20 authorize County Judge to sign same. Any questions or 21 comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Thank you. 11-25-02 52 1 MS. ANDERSON: Thank you. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: It is now 7:30. At this 3 time, the Commissioners Court will recess the special 4 session and open a public hearing on the cancellation of 5 Pleasure Cliff Subdivision, as recorded in the Kerr County 6 Subdivision Records at Volume 1, Page 11. 7 (The regular Commissioners Court meeting was closed at 7:30 p.m., and a public hearing 8 was held in open court, as follows:) 9 P U B L I C H E A R I N G 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: At this time, is there any 11 member of the public who would like to address the 12 Commissioners Court on the issue of cancellation of Pleasure 13 Cliff Subdivision plat, as recorded in Kerr County 14 Subdivision Records at Volume 1, page 11? 15 MR. SCHIWETZ: Yes, Judge. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Mr. Schiwetz, come forward. 17 MR. SCHIWETZ: Thank you. I'm in support of 18 this, the application/petition. My name is Ted Schiwetz, 19 and I represent the petitioners in the application to cancel 20 the plat. That's Vivian Marie Shannon, Julie Albright, and 21 Lauren Albright Rogers, who are all the owners of the 22 property in the subdivision, as well as all the property 23 that surrounds it. And, just a little bit of background, 24 these are also heirs of the individual who originally 25 acquired the property that was subdivided. He acquired it 11-25-02 53 1 back in 1934, and in 1935 he filed a plat, and the 2 subdivision just really didn't materialize. And he desired 3 to let the property -- or retain it in the family, and so, 4 over the course of years, nothing happened. The heirs who 5 now own the property, who are the petitioners, would like 6 for this to be essentially the entire -- part of the entire 7 tract of land that surrounds it, as well as what's in the 8 subdivision, and eventually sell it as a large tract and not 9 have to deal with any issues that may arise as far as title, 10 this being a recorded plat for a subdivision. So, we have 11 all the landowners of the subdivision, as well as 12 surrounding lands, and they're the individuals who are 13 making the application to vacate the plat. And, are there 14 any questions? I'll be glad to answer them. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: This is a public hearing, so 16 we're here to listen. Are there any other -- is there any 17 other member of the public who would like to address the 18 Court on the issue of cancellation of Pleasure Cliff 19 Subdivision, as recorded in Kerr County Subdivision Records 20 at Volume 1, Page 11? Seeing none, we'll close the public 21 hearing and reconvene this regular special session of the 22 Kerr County Commissioners Court. 23 (The public hearing was concluded at 7:32 p.m., and the regular Commissioners Court 24 meeting was reopened.) 25 - - - - - - - - - - 11-25-02 54 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: The next item for 2 consideration is Item Number 6, consider the cancellation of 3 Pleasure Cliff Subdivision as recorded in Kerr County 4 Subdivision Records at Volume 1, Page 11. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for approval. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 8 Baldwin, second by Commissioner Letz, that the Court approve 9 cancellation of the Pleasure Cliff Subdivision in Kerr 10 County, Texas, recorded in the Kerr County Subdivision 11 Records at Volume 1, Page 11. Any questions or comments? 12 If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. 17 MR. SCHIWETZ: Just kind of off the record. 18 I have drafted an order cancelling the subdivision. I 19 talked with the Clerk several times; I was trying to figure 20 out the format to use, and we've pulled up some old ones. 21 Anyway, I drafted this, if you would like to use it, or -- 22 you know, whatever format that you use is fine. I know we 23 need to have it recorded in the Real Property Records, and 24 so that's why I went on and drafted it this way. So, I'll 25 just leave it here, and if you'd like to -- 11-25-02 55 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Why don't you give it to the 2 County Attorney and let him take a look at it? He can 3 forward it on. At this time, I'm going to propose we take 4 about a 10-minute break. 5 MR. SCHIWETZ: Thank you. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Come back promptly at 7:45. 7 Thank you all. 8 (Recess taken from 7:34 p.m. to 7:45 p.m.) 9 - - - - - - - - - - 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Next item we're going to take 11 up is Item Number 11, consider and discuss and take 12 appropriate action on the easement agreement between 13 Riverhill Country Club and City of Kerrville, which Kerr 14 County is a party in interest due to the construction of 15 Rolling Green Sewer Bypass, part of the Kerrville South 16 Sewer Project. Commissioner Williams. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The Court will 18 remember, we had this on the agenda last week and withdrew 19 it because the County Attorney had a couple minor items to 20 get straightened out, and we also had to have some revised 21 construction dates placed into the agreement. And revisions 22 of those dates have now been given to us; we have the new 23 dates. I believe the County Attorney has taken care of 24 most, if not all, of his problems, but I'll let him say 25 that. And Mr. Jackson, who drafted the easement, is 11-25-02 56 1 present, and so what we'd like to do is make certain 2 everybody's understanding, all problems are taken care of, 3 and we can dispatch this thing hopefully this evening. 4 County Attorney? 5 MR. MOTLEY: I think the agreement's fine as 6 it is. There was one lingering issue, and that was that the 7 City's attorney had requested that the contractor or 8 subcontractors provide a year-long warranty for the 9 construction -- or for the constructed line, which I don't 10 have any problem with. And Commissioner Williams checked 11 through his various sources and confirmed through, I 12 believe, the engineer that there is already such a revision 13 made in the -- 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's embodied in the 15 construction agreement. 16 MR. MOTLEY: Okay. The only question I might 17 have about that would be, to me, it would seem as if that -- 18 and David may be able to speak to this, but it seemed to me 19 as if the County is technically paying for that improvement, 20 that the warranty would inure to the County's benefit, and 21 that if something were to happen where a warranty claim 22 needed to be made, the County would certainly not -- I would 23 think go ahead and make the claim and have it repaired under 24 that warranty. I think the City is looking more toward the 25 warranty also covering -- you know, extending to the City. 11-25-02 57 1 Commissioner Williams also mentioned that this project, 2 after completion, may be transferred, or some portion of it 3 be transferred over to U.G.R.A., and I would think, in that 4 case, that the warranty would follow the transfer of the -- 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would think so. 6 And I guess the City's concern is, obviously, a legitimate 7 concern, in that this has to do with the construction of a 8 bypass, and the bypass being around one of their lift 9 stations. So, obviously, they have a concern that the 10 construction is done in accordance with the specifications, 11 and I don't believe that a warranty of one year is 12 unreasonable, and it is embodied in the construction 13 agreement between the contractor and Kerr County. So, if 14 you're happy and there are no other questions -- 15 MR. MOTLEY: I think, on the part of the 16 City, what they're concerned about is that they're going to 17 be responsible for maintenance and operation of the line 18 once it's constructed, and if something comes up during the 19 third month after the thing's constructed, they're going to 20 say wait a minute, now. This should come under the County's 21 warranty rather than us handling this as a maintenance item. 22 I think that's what they were sort of looking at. And I 23 think that -- I don't think there's anything unreasonable 24 about that. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree with you. 11-25-02 58 1 MR. MOTLEY: At all. I think we ought to go 2 ahead and approve. But, again, the issue that I have, and I 3 did not specifically -- specifically discuss this with 4 Mr. Hayes, is that, you know, to me, it seems the warranty 5 is -- the warranty from the contractor and subcontractor is 6 to Kerr County, and I don't know how assignable that would 7 be, or what portion of it. And -- but I think, as written 8 and as amended now, that the agreement is fine. I would 9 think that the first thing we ought to do before we sign the 10 final would be to go ahead -- I don't think we've got 11 anything written in or typed in about the warranty. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. 13 MR. MOTLEY: So I think we ought to probably 14 go ahead and hand-write in a portion saying that there is a 15 one-year warranty from the contractor to Kerr County, and 16 Kerr County would use that warranty to handle any sort of 17 breakdowns or problems with the -- with the project during 18 the first year after its completion. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, what I'm hearing 20 from you, then, is that the Court is -- could go ahead and 21 approve the easement as drafted, with the date changes in 22 there, and with the inclusion of language coming from you 23 that deals with -- 24 MR. MOTLEY: I can do it right now. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- that deals with 11-25-02 59 1 the implied warranty transferring -- when we transfer the 2 system to U.G.R.A., et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. 3 MR. MOTLEY: I think so. I have not looked 4 at this original agreement that the engineer looked at and 5 the other gentleman you spoke to looked at, Mr. Tucker. I 6 haven't looked at that, so I don't really know what the 7 specific language is. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That could be the 9 form of a motion. 10 MR. MOTLEY: That's fine. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: With all those "et 12 cetera, et cetera" in there? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I'll second the 15 motion -- well, 'cause I was tracking what you said, and 16 that was a -- it was a motion. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Pretty close. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Motion by Commissioner 19 Williams, second by Commissioner Griffin, that the Court 20 approve the easement agreement between Riverhill Country 21 Club, Inc., and City of Kerrville, of which Kerr County is a 22 party at interest due to construction of the Rolling Green 23 Sewer Bypass, part of Kerrville South Sewer Project, subject 24 to insertion of a provision regarding warranty from 25 subcontractors running to Kerr County for a period of one 11-25-02 60 1 year, and authorize County Judge to sign the easement after 2 it's been amended and approved by the County Attorney. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's exactly what I 4 said. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: See? I was paying attention. 6 Any other questions or comments? If not, all in favor, 7 raise your right hand. 8 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 10 (No response.) 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Judge. 13 Got that done. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Item Number 9, consider 15 awarding bid for lease of motor grader with scarifier, 16 authorize County Attorney to review sample contract with 17 bid, authorize County Judge to sign the final contract for 18 motor grader. Franklin Johnston. 19 MR. JOHNSTON: I think you said it all. I 20 think the sample contract is in here. We need David to 21 review it. I think last year he made a couple changes. I 22 don't know if that's been taken care of in this one or not. 23 It's a standard Caterpillar Financial Services Corporation 24 contract. Did you get a chance to review that Caterpillar 25 Financial Services contract? 11-25-02 61 1 MR. MOTLEY: I believe I signed that one, if 2 I'm not mistaken. Same one we had last year. 3 MR. JOHNSTON: I think it's the same one we 4 had last year. 5 MR. MOTLEY: Is that the original agreement? 6 MR. JOHNSTON: No, it's a copy. 7 MR. MOTLEY: I looked at it, and I didn't 8 have any problem with it. I don't have any problem with 9 that one. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move we approve. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner Letz, 13 second by Commissioner Baldwin, that the Court approve 14 awarding the bid for the lease of a motor grader to Holt, 15 and authorize County Judge to sign the contract for same 16 once it's been approved by the County Attorney. Any 17 questions or comments? If not, all in favor, raise your 18 right hand. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. 23 MR. JOHNSTON: Do you have the final copy? 24 If not, we'll get it tomorrow; I'll get it to you. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Item Number 12, 11-25-02 62 1 consider and discuss and take appropriate action on setting 2 a date for Disaster Assistance Workshop, a prerequisite for 3 applying for H.O.M.E. Disaster Assistance funds, should the 4 County desire to apply for same. Commissioner Williams. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I put this on 6 there just really to determine whether or not we desire to 7 participate in the H.O.M.E. Disaster Assistance Program. If 8 so, then the requirement is to set a public hearing and move 9 forward. I don't know if the other Commissioners have had 10 any input about -- about these funds, which was designed to 11 help those who had inadequate insurance to make the needed 12 repairs on their homes after floods, and it is targeted to 13 households earning less than 80 percent of the yearly median 14 family income, which for us is about $27,000 for a family of 15 two. In all truth, I've had two telephone calls from the 16 period of the flood to-date regarding this, and one of them 17 was from a couple who owned property on Verde Creek. They 18 didn't live in it; I believe it was a rental piece of 19 property on Verde Creek. Pretty good number on it, but they 20 couldn't rebuild it if they wanted to, because it didn't 21 have enough property remaining to get beyond the -- the 22 floodplain determination. So, I really want to know, if we 23 -- if others want us to participate, we can do so, and we 24 can do so by setting a public hearing date and authorizing 25 Grantworks to move forward on an application. If not, we 11-25-02 63 1 can just dispatch with it. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The only ones -- there's 3 not any out in the rural areas of my precinct. I think the 4 reason we were pursuing it originally was possibly to help 5 the residents in the city of Kerrville in case the City got 6 over the limit that they were going to be able to apply for, 7 and I don't know where the City is on that. I think if the 8 City -- if there's any shortage on their side in needing 9 additional grant funds, I'd be in favor of doing it, but if 10 not -- 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's fine. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- not pursuing it. And 13 I have not -- I've talked with Ron Patterson several times 14 recently, but this was not one of those topics. What's the 15 timetable, Bill? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pardon? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The timetable for when we 18 have to do the hearing. Do you know? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm looking. If 20 you're interested in applying for H.O.M.E. funds to assist 21 those families affected by disaster -- prior to December 1. 22 So, we have to notify pretty quickly if we want to do it, 23 and set a date for a public hearing. We can do the 24 notification through Grantworks, tell them to make the 25 necessary application. 11-25-02 64 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: I'd suggest we go ahead and 2 do the notification. We don't have to make application, or 3 if we do make application, we don't have to accept the grant 4 if we choose not to, but I don't think there's any harm done 5 in keeping ourselves in a position to take advantage of it 6 if we want to. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with that. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree, too. I 9 think it's something we should go ahead and do. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It may be once the 11 public sees that we are trying to move forward with the 12 program, then someone may come forward. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's possible. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You know. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: If there were just a 16 few, it would certainly help. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But it does clearly 18 say here that the home must be occupied by the owner. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm, and out of 20 the floodplain. Two major criteria. Well, I would move 21 that the County approve the application for H.O.M.E. 22 Disaster Assistance and file necessary paperwork for that, 23 and set a date for public hearing. I'll set the date -- 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Do we have to give 30 days 25 notice? 11-25-02 65 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let's give 30 days 2 notice. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: First meeting in January? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's do it Christmas 5 day. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It would have to be 7 Christmas day right now. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: First meeting in 9 January would be all right. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: First meeting in January is 11 what? 12 MS. SOVIL: 13th. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: 13th? 14 MS. SOVIL: Yes. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Set a date for public 16 hearing January 13. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll second that 18 emotion. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 20 Williams, second by Commissioner Baldwin, that the Court 21 approve notifying interest in applying for H.O.M.E. Disaster 22 Assistance funds, and set a date for Disaster Assistance 23 Workshop of January 13th, Year 2003, at 10 o'clock a.m. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That will work. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: In the Commissioners' 11-25-02 66 1 Courtroom. Any questions or comments? If not, all in 2 favor, raise your right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Item Number 7 13, consider and discuss hiring Tom Pollard or other outside 8 counsel to advise Commissioners Court on whether 9 Commissioners Court may engage an outside counsel to pursue 10 collection of existing outstanding judgments nisi. 11 Commissioner Griffin. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: The Court will recall 13 that, some months ago, this item -- we discussed this item; 14 that there is some $160,000 that's out there in forfeited 15 bond moneys where the judgments have already been entered, 16 and that's done by -- and, David, help me here if I go too 17 far afield. That has to be done, by statute, by the County 18 Attorney, the entering of those judgments. 19 MR. MOTLEY: Well -- 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think it says that. 21 And correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it says the County 22 Attorney has to do that. 23 MR. MOTLEY: It is done by the County 24 Attorney, that's correct. 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. The second 11-25-02 67 1 part of this is, after the judgments have been entered, that 2 there's got to be further legal action taken to actually go 3 collect the money. And I was discussing this with Judge 4 Brown, and he said -- he said if there's -- this 160 grand 5 is sitting there, we might as well go get it for the County. 6 And I understand that -- that Mr. Motley has said that he 7 just doesn't have time or staff to go pursue that, and my 8 thought was -- is that maybe we can look at hiring outside 9 counsel just to go collect that money. And I don't think 10 there's a problem with the statute with that. And if there 11 is, well, say so, you know. 12 MR. MOTLEY: There is. There is. And -- and 13 let me say that I don't think $160,000 is an accurate 14 figure. And I don't recall ever actually saying that we 15 were not going to be able to do it or didn't want to do the 16 collection of the work. We have -- in fact, since we've 17 last brought the issue up, we've collected probably -- I 18 don't know, a dozen or more bonds, as well as got rid of 19 some that are just dead weight. So, we've been working on 20 them. Everything I read, and I have dozens of cases here, 21 and -- and dozens of Attorney General's opinions saying that 22 it is 100 percent a criminal law matter. It is the -- the 23 bond is taken in the name of the State of Texas as a 24 sovereign, and the sovereign in the lower courts in this 25 county is me. I'm their representative. And, so, it says, 11-25-02 68 1 from everything I have read, that it is 100 percent my 2 responsibility to -- to take care of this. And there is an 3 A.G. opinion out of -- I believe it's El Paso, and same 4 thing exactly is requested; that they wanted to hire -- the 5 Commissioners Court wanted to hire a private attorney to 6 collect on judgments -- and not judgment nisi, which is the 7 way this thing is posted, for judgment nisi, but -- and the 8 Court's -- and the Attorney General said that they're 9 without the authority to do that. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: I'd like -- can I see that? 11 MR. MOTLEY: I don't know if I have it with 12 me in this stack of stuff or not, but I do have it, and I 13 will provide it. 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. If that's -- 15 and, again, I'm just reading the statute cold, but it 16 appears that -- there's no question that the entering of the 17 judgment and all has to be done by the -- through the County 18 Attorney. It would just seem that if -- it and may be the 19 information I've got is wrong. What is the number that you 20 think there is out there? 21 MR. MOTLEY: Oh, I haven't stopped to figure 22 out the number. I just know that of the ones that we go 23 through, and we've, you know, made a run through with them, 24 most of them are really not -- they're not collectible for a 25 variety of reasons. A lot of these cases are traffic 11-25-02 69 1 tickets. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Time out. The judgment is 3 against the bond. The judgment's not against the 4 individual. Bond is collateralized. There is liquid, 5 realizable collateral under the control of the Sheriff that 6 covers each and every bond that's written in Kerr County, so 7 we're not talking about uncollectible judgments. The 8 judgments are absolutely rock-hard, collectible. And -- 9 and -- and the individuals who forfeited the bond are not 10 the subject of the collection suit. 11 MR. MOTLEY: Well, they both are. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: The suit goes against the 13 bond. 14 MR. MOTLEY: The bond -- it's the principal 15 and the surety have to be named in the collection. And -- 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Have to be named in the 17 collection or in the judgment nisi? 18 MR. MOTLEY: I think we're to go after both 19 of them, and in both -- in both proceedings, as well as 20 we're able to. It's not fair to only go after the surety 21 without going after the principal. So, the -- I think that 22 we need to go after both parties. I think we need to go 23 after the bonds in PR cases as well as surety bonds, or cash 24 bonds, any bond that's bad. We should have a fair policy 25 where we go after everybody equally. 11-25-02 70 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: But isn't it fair to say that 2 if the individual who -- who forfeited the bond can't be 3 found, you can still collect on the bond? Because it's 4 collateralized by the -- by the company that put up the 5 bond. 6 MR. MOTLEY: I hear what you're saying, and I 7 understand that. There are -- 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: So I don't understand. 9 MR. MOTLEY: There are limitations. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: You said you dismissed some 11 of these cases. Under what basis would you dismiss the 12 case? 13 MR. MOTLEY: These were judgment nisis. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Why would you dismiss a 15 judgment against -- 16 MR. MOTLEY: Some of the people are dead. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: But I don't -- but the bond 18 is still there. 19 MR. MOTLEY: Yeah, I hear you. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: The surety -- the collateral 21 is still there for the bond. 22 MR. MOTLEY: Right. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Why would you dismiss a 24 judgment against the bond if the person who forfeited the 25 bond was dead? The -- the judgment's against the bond. 11-25-02 71 1 MR. MOTLEY: There are statutory -- 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: The piece of paper that 3 guarantees that person's appearance. 4 MR. MOTLEY: There are statutory restrictions 5 against collecting on bonds in certain, specific cases. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Such as? 7 MR. MOTLEY: And -- well, there's -- if you 8 have a judgment nisi, I don't believe you can collect a 9 judgment nisi or bring it to final judgment if the person -- 10 if the underlying criminal case has been dismissed. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: But that's the final 12 judgment. 13 MR. MOTLEY: I just said -- judgment nisi is 14 what I was referring to. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: But you said you can't bring 16 it to final judgment, which means you can't take the 17 judgment nisi for -- if the person's dead. 18 MR. MOTLEY: Right. Well, no. No, if the 19 criminal case -- underlying criminal case is dismissed, is 20 what I was referring to. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, yeah, if it's 22 dismissed, then it wouldn't have forfeited bonds if it's 23 dismissed. 24 MR. MOTLEY: Well, they could have still 25 failed to show up for an earlier hearing, is what I'm 11-25-02 72 1 saying, and then later on the case is dismissed for some 2 other reason. I don't really know how to address this thing 3 any better than the way I said it before; is that the 4 Court -- as far as I'm concerned, if the Court wants to 5 spend money to go out and have some other attorney brief 6 this and does not have confidence in the opinions I've 7 expressed for the Court, that's your business. Spend the 8 money however y'all want to. I don't have anything to say 9 as far as that goes. I can say that the bonds -- the 10 judgment nisis and collection of the final bonds is my 11 business, and that's what I'm supposed to do. And I will 12 provide that A.G. opinion. I must have left it downstairs. 13 I thought I had it here, but I'll provide it for you; exact 14 same fact situation. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Judgment nisi where the -- 16 the Attorney General ruled that the Commissioners Court 17 could not hire an outside counsel? 18 MR. MOTLEY: That's right. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: To collect judgment nisis? 20 MR. MOTLEY: That's right. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: I'd like to see that. 22 MR. MOTLEY: Well, I'll give it to you. I'll 23 give it to you. If I can find it right away, I'll give it 24 to you right away. I mean, I've been going through all of 25 the -- I have a stack of these, and most of them state 11-25-02 73 1 specifically -- they hold on the issue that the bonds are 2 criminal matters, and case after case will say that these 3 are criminal matters and, as such, that they are -- a lot of 4 them say they're to be adjudicated finally in the Court of 5 Criminal Appeals, meaning they're criminal matters. They're 6 closely associated with the underlying criminal action. 7 And, so, even though they're ruled by the Rules of Civil 8 Procedure, that does not mean that they're -- several cases, 9 they are, indeed, criminal cases, intimately related with 10 the underlying criminal case, and cases where they will have 11 to -- it would -- the Rules of Civil Procedure apply 12 procedurally, but they are criminal cases finally 13 adjudicated in the Court of Criminal Appeals, to be handled 14 by the criminal prosecutor. So, I don't -- I don't know 15 what to tell you about it other than that. But, again, if 16 the Court wants to -- 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Well, from my 18 curiosity's sake, you know, I mean -- 19 MR. MOTLEY: I don't know if that helped you 20 or not. 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Well, yeah. I think, 22 obviously, that A.G. opinion would have a far-reaching 23 effect on what we talked about here, so we probably ought to 24 take a look at that. 25 MR. MOTLEY: I believe -- 11-25-02 74 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Is there any way that 2 we could accelerate the process? And maybe that's what we 3 need to think about. Can we accelerate the process of 4 collecting on forfeited bonds? That's all I'm -- 5 MR. MOTLEY: As I said, we have collected on 6 several. Some of them are subject to agreements in the 7 nature of a settlement of cases. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: An agreement that's been 9 approved by the judge of the court? 10 MR. MOTLEY: Say that again? 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: An agreement that's been 12 approved by the judge of the court in which the judgment 13 nisi was to be -- 14 MR. MOTLEY: That's not actually required by 15 the statute. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes, it is required by the 17 statute. 18 MR. MOTLEY: No, it's not. It says "may." 19 May be approved by. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, if it's not approved, 21 then it's not enforceable. 22 MR. MOTLEY: No, but it says -- no, that's 23 not correct. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yeah. 25 MR. MOTLEY: That's not correct. It says it 11-25-02 75 1 may be approved by the judge of the court. It is very 2 enforceable. We've collected many tens of thousands of 3 dollars on these agreements, so I can't see -- see how you 4 can say they're not enforceable. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Sir, come forward. Identify 6 yourself if you want to address us on this. 7 MR. DOSS: My name is Jason Doss. I'm from 8 Bandera, Texas, and I'll be starting up a bail bond business 9 here in town in the upcoming weeks. Well, first of all, I'd 10 like to point out, if the death certificate is presented to 11 the Court before they were supposed to show up for trial, 12 the bond cannot be taken by the County, but if the death 13 certificate is presented afterwards, then, yes, they still 14 owe for the bond. In regards to what rights the County has 15 to take the bond, when you start up your business, you have 16 to put, like, say, a $50,000 cash deposit in a C.D. account 17 with the County. If that person doesn't show up for trial, 18 yes, y'all have the right to take that money out of that 19 account just like that. So, there -- there -- so, are you 20 with me so far? 21 (Judge Henneke nodded.) 22 MR. DOSS: And what was the other one? In 23 regards to the right to appoint an attorney to go after it, 24 I would be -- I'm kind of curious why the County Attorney 25 doesn't have time to go after $160,000. To me, that's a lot 11-25-02 76 1 of money. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That was the number I 3 was given. 4 MR. DOSS: Well, it was the number I was 5 given today, too, by Buster Baldwin. And I would like to 6 know why the County Attorney doesn't have time for $160,000. 7 I think it would -- not only that. The last thing I'd like 8 to say is -- is that it was brought to my attention when I 9 first came here that -- I was saying that I'm not going to 10 have any forfeitures because I'm going to take the proper 11 precautions; I'm going to make sure that I get collateral, 12 I'm going to get criminal history, going to do everything 13 right, a stack of paperwork. And this person that I was 14 talking to told me, well, that's not going to work, because 15 if you start hassling these people about paperwork to 16 prevent forfeiture, they'll just call some of the bail 17 bondsmen in town that don't worry about that. Because these 18 bail bondsmen are under the impression that the County 19 Attorney is not going to make them pay up. So, I think that 20 it's important that the Commission here sets a precedent 21 that -- that if they don't show up, we will collect. I 22 guess that's all I got to say. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. Well, we also 24 have a request to speak from Jackie Davis. Ms. Davis? 25 MS. DAVIS: Yes, thank you. I'm Jackie Davis 11-25-02 77 1 with Davis Bonding Company. Gentlemen, I stand before you 2 tonight in an attempt to clarify what I consider to be 3 distortions and misconceptions pertaining to the debt and 4 the collection of the debt that is owed to Kerr County by 5 Davis Bonding Company arising from judgments nisi filed in 6 the Kerr County Court at Law. Quite a while back, I had a 7 meeting with the County Attorney's office. We looked at 8 that outstanding debt and made an agreement that Davis 9 Bonding would make monthly payments to the County. I have 10 lived up to that agreement. In no way has it been breached. 11 I had a conversation with David Motley on Wednesday, 12 November 6th. In that conversation, I initiated the subject 13 of debt owed by Davis Bonding to Kerr County. I told him 14 then that it was my plan to get everything clear and paid by 15 the end of December. I'd already hired a woman to do some 16 extra work for me. She will have a list of what the cases 17 are shown to be outstanding and unpaid in Kerr County. I 18 want her to compare our records with that of the County. 19 Once that is done, Mr. Motley and I have agreed to address 20 any discrepancies. When we are satisfied that our figures 21 match and correct -- and are correct, then we should be able 22 to negotiate a deal which will be satisfactory to the court 23 that has jurisdiction over that debt. 24 Last Friday, November 22nd, I requested a 25 meeting with the Sheriff to talk about several issues. I 11-25-02 78 1 learned that the collection of judgment nisis was on 2 tonight's agenda. I am aware that this is at least the 3 second time in the past few months it has come before you. 4 Obviously, there are some people that think an attorney from 5 the outside has to be hired in order for the money to be 6 collected, regardless of cost to this county and its 7 taxpayers. If you're hiring an attorney to come 8 specifically after Davis Bonding, I want to assure you that 9 it is and always has been my intention to meet all my 10 obligations in a timely manner. The implication that Davis 11 Bonding Company is not taking care of business is not true. 12 In order to quiet that rumor, I requested and got a meeting 13 with the Sheriff, County Court at Law Judge, and the County 14 Attorney. They were present, along with some others. At 15 the conclusion of that meeting, I thought that all parties 16 present agreed that my company was meeting its obligation, 17 but soon after that, things went from bad to worse, with all 18 sort of gossip and innuendoes in the courthouse and coffee 19 shops. 20 I've had a real hard time understanding why 21 it's necessary to be here in front of you and discuss my 22 business, but if that's what it takes, here I am, gentlemen. 23 This business and my good name are everything to me. I 24 worked for 10 years to run a good, ethical business, and I 25 plan on keeping it for a long time to come. I can't speak 11-25-02 79 1 for any other bonding company that owes money to Kerr 2 County, but I can tell each one of you this, as owner of 3 Davis Bonding Company. I kept my word. I lived up to my 4 agreement. I am not now and never have been trying to get 5 out of paying what is owed by me or this company. It is my 6 personal opinion that the majority of criticism and scrutiny 7 that has been thrown my way and my business is based on 8 personal prejudice and/or political agendas. My door is 9 open to any one of you that has any questions. I welcome 10 the opportunity to meet with any one of you. I want this 11 debt resolved as much and as quickly -- probably as much and 12 probably a lot more than anyone else. Thank you. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. 14 MR. MOTLEY: Something -- Mr. Doss had some 15 questions about why the County Attorney doesn't collect on 16 $160,000. Again, $160,000, I don't think, is an accurate 17 figure. I would say that, number one. Number two, 18 Ms. Bailey and I -- Ms. Peggy Bailey, working on behalf of 19 Jackie Davis, and I sat down to work on some of these cases 20 to try and work them out, which we picked one case at random 21 off the list to try and look at the case and find out what 22 had happened in the civil case and what had happened in the 23 underlying criminal case. We kept time of it; it took three 24 and a half hours to figure out one case out of the numerous 25 cases we had to work on. I don't know if the Court will 11-25-02 80 1 recall, but we did make a request for an additional 2 secretary this last budget session and were turned down. It 3 is a staffing problem in order to be able to do everything 4 right now. But everything has to be done right now. 5 Everything always has to be done pretty much first rattle 6 out of the box, and so if we were to do the bail bonds 7 first, then what gets pushed back? I don't know what we can 8 push back. 9 And I would like to also -- I believe 10 Mr. Doss mentioned he was from Bandera County. He may not 11 realize this, but there's not been one bail bond collected 12 in this county -- the history of this county but for the 13 bonds that we've collected in our office. We started the 14 effort to do it. We've collected every penny of every bond 15 that's ever been collected in this county; felony, 16 misdemeanor, every one of them. So, to come in now and 17 be -- why aren't y'all asking Ron Sutton and Bruce Curry why 18 they're not collecting on their bonds? Because they don't 19 go after these bonds. So, what I'm saying is that we've 20 been collecting the bonds, and we started the effort. We 21 tapered off and we had some personnel shortages, and we 22 picked it back up, tried to do the best we could. We work 23 on it as we have a chance. But it is a fact that it is very 24 time-intensive work, and it takes a lot of time, and we feel 25 like we have -- well, it does. It really does, Judge. I 11-25-02 81 1 know you think it doesn't, but it does. And we are going to 2 endeavor to get the bonds collected; we are working on it. 3 As I said, we've collected numerous bonds -- judgments since 4 the last time this issue was brought up. So, again, if 5 y'all want to go out and hire outside counsel, I don't have 6 any comments about that. That's y'all's business, and more 7 power to you. I'd like to see what the attorney says. I'd 8 be curious to find out what they say about whose 9 responsibility it is to do this. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Judge, I'd recommend 11 that we get -- look at this A.G. opinion, and perhaps 12 readdress this later. This is good information. This is 13 the first time I've heard any of this. And the only thing I 14 had heard was that the money was out there on the table; 15 let's figure out a way to go get it. And, so, that was -- 16 was my only -- is my only motive. 17 MR. MOTLEY: You heard the word "politics" 18 tonight, I think for the first time. 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I heard a different 20 side of it. But I think that A.G. opinion could be 21 critical, and I'd like to see that. 22 MR. MOTLEY: I'll get it for you. It's in -- 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: I'd like to see that, too. 24 Let me point out, for the record, that the number that's 25 being put out as far as outstanding amount of judgment nisis 11-25-02 82 1 was presented to the Court by the County Clerk, based upon 2 the records that her department keeps as the keeper of 3 records for the County Court at Law. It's not a number 4 pulled out of the air. It's not a number that has any 5 political agenda behind it, whatever that means. I'm amused 6 by the amount of people who, all of a sudden, have political 7 agendas. It's an amount of money that was presented to this 8 Court by the duly-elected County Clerk as the amount of 9 money that was outstanding and owing, actually as of 10 January 1st, 2001. 11 MR. MOTLEY: Are you comfortable that it's 12 accurate, the numbers? That they're correct? 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: I have a great deal of 14 confidence in the County Clerk's office. 15 MR. MOTLEY: Okay. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: The County Clerk. 17 MR. MOTLEY: That's fine. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: If she tells me that this is 19 the number that -- that she has come up with based on her 20 investigation of the records, then I have a high degree of 21 confidence in that number. 22 MR. MOTLEY: I have a great deal of 23 confidence in the County Clerk as well, but we've found 24 errors already. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: There easily could be. But I 11-25-02 83 1 think if there are errors, they're clerical errors based on 2 transcribing, and that's all there is. And I don't think 3 the Court can afford to leave substantial sums of money. If 4 they can collect it, fine. I'd like to request the County 5 Attorney provide us with a list of those judgments nisi that 6 have been collected in the last six months. Are you willing 7 to do that? 8 MR. MOTLEY: I'll think about it. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well -- 10 MR. MOTLEY: Judge, I really think this is 11 not the Court's business. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: I have the right to file an 13 open records request, too. So -- 14 MR. MOTLEY: That's fine, but I think this 15 is -- and these are all matters that are in litigation as 16 well, and I think that the Court is really overstepping its 17 bounds, for the second time now. I don't see why you feel 18 the need to bring this up in public when I've told you -- 19 and, again, it's -- the agenda item is not to request things 20 from me. The agenda item is whether or not y'all are going 21 to go out and hire another lawyer to tell you if what I told 22 you is correct or not. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's true. 24 MR. MOTLEY: That's fine. And I'd say if 25 that's what y'all want to do, I don't have any objection to 11-25-02 84 1 it. But I will tell you again that I believe that it is 100 2 percent my responsibility, and I think we're trying the best 3 we can to fulfill the responsibility. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Well, if you'll 5 provide Commissioner Griffin with that A.G. -- 6 MR. MOTLEY: I'll provide everyone -- 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Provide everybody. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: And bring it back. 9 MR. MOTLEY: I'll be happy to. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. If there's nothing 11 else to come before us -- 12 MR. MOTLEY: Executive Session matter for the 13 Court. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Do we have an Executive 15 Session? 16 MR. MOTLEY: Litigation. General litigation. 17 It's a very brief two-minute deal. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's -- all right, Number 19 14. 20 MR. MOTLEY: Very, very brief, Your Honor. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Item Number 14, 22 consider and discuss scheduling annual Christmas luncheon 23 for Monday December 23rd, and designating Commissioners 24 Court Coordinator as the person in charge of organizing 25 event. 11-25-02 85 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So moved. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I would 3 certainly second that if I knew that we're going to have our 4 luncheon on Monday, and the courthouse would be closed on 5 Tuesday and Wednesday. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, at this time, the 7 courthouse is not closed on Tuesday. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand that. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: We have not designated that 10 as a holiday. If we want to do that, we can do that at our 11 next meeting. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just -- you know, 13 and I've always -- for years and years, I've always argued 14 that, that having people -- having our party on Monday, and 15 then asking them to come back in -- or if you had the party 16 on Tuesday, to ask them to come back in, I just -- I feel 17 like that our employees and their families need one more day 18 of holiday for that travel. I mean, there's some -- take 19 Thea as an example. A good grandmother would want to drive 20 to Dallas, Texas, to see her little chillun's on Christmas, 21 and give them that -- that travel day. I just -- I never 22 have liked bringing them in here the day before Christmas. 23 But if we can't do it that way, then I want -- I think that 24 we need to have the luncheon on Tuesday, the 24th, early, 25 and then close down at noon so they can travel. That's 11-25-02 86 1 where I am. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Either way. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've always been 4 there. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: All I'm trying to do is get 6 something definitive as far as the luncheon. I have no 7 preconceived notion as to when it's going to be. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: 24th's fine. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So -- 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't have any strong 11 opinion either way. I mean, I've talked to a few dozen 12 employees, and they seem equally divided. Really, they 13 didn't know -- I didn't give them the option of giving 14 another holiday. I didn't know that that was on the table. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Little late. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Mrs. Uecker? 17 MS. UECKER: How come -- how come you were 18 trying to have the luncheon on the 23rd? 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: 'Cause that's the day of our 20 last meeting, our last Commissioners Court meeting. 21 MS. UECKER: Okay. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Which is the way we did it 23 last year and the year before that. 24 MS. UECKER: What would that have to do with 25 a Christmas luncheon? 11-25-02 87 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, we just -- you know, 2 it's convenient for Commissioners, basically. 3 MS. UECKER: Oh. See, now we get to the 4 bottom of it. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 24th works for me. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: If we want to do it on the 7 24th -- 8 MS. UECKER: Well -- 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- I'm going to be here 10 anyway. 11 MS. UECKER: Probably the District Clerk's 12 office will be closed on the 24th. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's fine. I mean, let's 14 make it clear that every elected official has the right to 15 close their office under their schedule. But if you close 16 the office on a day that's not a holiday, then the employees 17 need to take vacation. 18 MS. UECKER: No. Remember, Judge? I asked 19 you in the -- out in the hall when employees -- when offices 20 were closed during the ice. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's different. 22 MS. UECKER: I don't think so. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's an emergency. 24 MS. UECKER: No, not when employees live 25 almost next door to the courthouse, and that office is still 11-25-02 88 1 closed. I asked you specifically. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Then that's an emergency. 3 That's a weather situation, it's my opinion. 4 MS. UECKER: Well, in talking -- I talked 5 with the personnel -- I talked to the Treasurer this 6 afternoon, and she confirmed that those employees would not 7 be required to take a vacation day. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Which employees? 9 MS. UECKER: My employees. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: If you close the day before 11 Christmas? 12 MS. UECKER: Yes. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. I'm not going to argue 14 with her to see if they want to charge a day. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I mean, I 16 personally like the idea of closing on the 24th, but I have 17 a question as to what I just heard. Linda, are you saying 18 that if you -- whenever you decide to close, you can close 19 your office whenever you want, and those people get 20 automatic holidays without -- 21 MS. UECKER: That's what I understand. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So why do we have -- 23 MS. UECKER: Because -- and, Jonathan, that 24 came up -- that came up on the ice days. This office was -- 25 my office was almost the only one open, and that was because 11-25-02 89 1 we could get here, and we had customers that could get here. 2 And we got complaints from citizens wanting to know why 3 other offices were closed, like the Tax Office and the 4 County Clerk's office, knowing that there were employees 5 that could have come down there and opened the office and 6 done business. Judge Henneke was here; he did some work 7 here. And I talked to him about it out in the hall, because 8 that issue had come up before. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think you have to draw the 10 distinction between a weather-related situation where there 11 are some people who can't get here and the elected official 12 makes the decision that, for the safety of the employees, 13 they will not open the office, so people don't try to get 14 here, and in the situation where you're simply closing the 15 office for the convenience of the employees. I think 16 there's a quantum difference between the two as to whether 17 or not the employees have to take vacation. You know, you 18 obviously disagree, and that's fine. 19 MS. UECKER: Well, and I'm not saying that I 20 disagree. I'm just saying that the personnel officer 21 confirmed that, and I think we need to get that cleared up. 22 I -- you know, you weren't the judge at the time, but that 23 issue came up several years ago with Judge Denson. Same 24 problem. It was never cleared up, and I'd like to see it 25 cleared up. 11-25-02 90 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, I'll clear it 3 up. Are we going to have a Christmas party or not? Do we 4 want to? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, yes. Want to do 7 it on Monday or Tuesday? Tuesday or Wednesday? 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Tuesday. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tuesday. But if we do it 10 on Tuesday, District Clerk's office won't be here, 'cause 11 they're going to take the day off. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I'm sorry about 13 that. We can't meet everybody's needs. When do we have it 14 scheduled right now? 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: We don't. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Tuesday, the -- 17 whatever. 18 MS. SOVIL: 24th. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 24th. That's a 20 motion. 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second that. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 23 Baldwin, second by Commissioner Griffin, that the Christmas 24 luncheon be Tuesday, December 24th, from 11 o'clock in the 25 morning, mas or menos, and that we appoint the Commissioners 11-25-02 91 1 Court Coordinator to organize the event. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Correct. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any questions or comments? 4 If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes? 7 MS. SOVIL: I have a comment. We need to 8 decide on how much money we're each going to give, and we 9 need to put the money up front. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: We can do that after the 11 meeting, separately. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm going to donate a 13 $20 bill. I think we voted. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: We have an Executive Session. 15 MR. MOTLEY: Very briefly. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: All those not invited are 17 excused. 18 (Discussion off the record.) 19 (The open session was closed at 8:27 p.m., and an Executive Session was held, the 20 transcript of which is contained in a separate document.) 21 - - - - - - - - - - 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: It is 8:38, and Commissioners 23 Court will now return to open session. Are there any items 24 that need to be acted upon in open session? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sleep. 11-25-02 92 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: If not, we stand adjourned. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Amen. 3 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 8:38 p.m.) 4 - - - - - - - - - - 5 6 7 STATE OF TEXAS | 8 COUNTY OF KERR | 9 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 10 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 11 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 12 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 13 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 2nd day of December, 14 2002. 15 16 17 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 18 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 19 Certified Shorthand Reporter 20 21 22 23 24 25 11-25-02