1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Special Session 10 Monday, March 24, 2003 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 DAVE NICHOLSON, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X March 24, 2003 2 PAGE --- Commissioners Comments 4 3 1.1 Pay Bills 7 4 1.2 Budget Amendments 8 1.3 Late Bills -- 5 1.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 14 6 2.1 KEDF Semi-Annual Report 14 2.2 Approval of revised Airport Lease Agreement with 7 Kerrville Aviation and authorize County Judge to sign same 24 8 2.3 Approval of the Kerr County Emergency Management Hazard Analysis 46 9 2.4 Audit report of financial data for fiscal year ending September 30, 2002, by Pressler, Thompson 10 & Company 48 2.5 Request for waiver of immediate inspection of 11 septic system at 302 Ranchero Road 56 2.6 Discuss Kerr County Sheriff's Department 12 applying for department credit card 65 2.7 Discuss final plat signature block requirement 13 of condominium plat of Stablewood Springs Ranch 72 2.8 Final revision of plat for Lots 43 and 44-A of 14 Cypress Springs Estates, Phase I 87 2.9 Preliminary revision of Plat of Tracts 15 & 16, 15 Y.O. Ranchlands 89 2.10 Variance to Kerr County Subdivision Rules and 16 Regulations for placing a water line in Cypress Springs, Phase II 91 17 2.11 Discuss accepting H.M.G.P. Grant for Kerr County to purchase 3 homes in 100-year floodplain 98 18 2.12 Adopt flood recovery maps to be used to determine flood elevations on Cherry Creek, Cypress Creek, 19 and Verde Creek 112 2.13 Discuss hiring consultants and design/build team 20 to assist with helping develop renovation and construction plans for the Hill Country Youth 21 Exhibit Center 116 2.14 Approve resolution adopting waiver request for 22 local match fund participation for federal off-system bridge program project 128 23 --- Adjourned 131 24 25 3 1 On Monday, March 24, 2003, at 9:00 a.m., a special meeting 2 of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in the 3 Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville, 4 Texas, and the following proceedings were had in open court: 5 P R O C E E D I N G S 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, ladies and 7 gentlemen. It's 9 a.m. local time. I'll call the meeting 8 of the special Commissioners Court scheduled for Monday, 9 March 24th, 2003, to order. I believe this morning we have 10 Commissioner Baldwin to open the meeting. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do, sir. I want to 12 make a comment before we pray, though; is that in my years 13 on this world, I've had the opportunity to meet some 14 outstanding, great and wonderful people. I have met 15 President Reagan and dined with governors and senators and 16 congressmen, and just met some, really, people of integrity. 17 But I have a special guest today that's going to do the 18 opening prayer, and he is the finest man that I've ever met 19 in my life, and he's my hero, and he's my son, Jesse 20 Baldwin. 21 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, Jesse. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hey, back to school. 25 Straight to school. (Laughter.) 3-24-03 4 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Jesse. At this 2 time, any person who would like to address this Court on 3 matters which are not listed on today's agenda are welcome 4 to come forward and do so. I would remind any of you that 5 want to speak on matters that are listed on the agenda to 6 please fill out a participation form. It's not mandatory 7 and absolutely required, but it helps me to keep up with -- 8 in terms of trying to allocate time and moving around from 9 item to item, and also so that I won't miss you when we get 10 to that particular item. So, I would ask that you do that. 11 But right now, if there's anybody here that wants to speak 12 on any item, anything that's on their mind that they want to 13 bring to the attention of this Court that's not listed on 14 the agenda, we'd ask that you come forward at this time. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Had your chance. All right. 17 That being the case, there being no one wanting to step 18 forward, we'll now move to Commissioners' comments, and 19 Commissioner 1, Mr. Baldwin. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I really don't have 21 anything, other than the young man that just left here, we 22 found out a couple of days ago that he's the number one 300 23 hurdler from Corpus to El Paso in 4-A. We don't know what's 24 going on in east Texas. Of course, neither do they. 25 (Laughter.) We don't know. We don't have any times of the 3-24-03 5 1 Dallas and east Texas area, but the west Texas and South 2 Texas area, he's the number one guy. So, we'll have to wait 3 and see. We're getting down close to district, and it's 4 going to be fun. I'm a little bit nervous. He's not, but 5 I'm a little bit nervous. That's all. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Commissioner 7 Williams? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I just returned from 9 Fort Worth, which they say is where the west begins, or as 10 the guy from McLennan said, where the east peters out, 11 whatever. An interesting place to be and visit for a West 12 Texas Judges and Commissioners meeting, but it's always good 13 to be home. And we'll talk about the other at another time. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Commissioner Letz? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No comments this morning. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm glad to be back 17 in the hill country and away from Fort Worth. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: That's all you've got this 19 morning? I've got a few items I'd like to mention. First 20 off, I would ask that all of us, irrespective of our views 21 of the political advisability of the current world 22 situation, would keep in our thoughts and our prayers all 23 the members on the -- of the armed forces of this country 24 and of the other countries who are involved in the current 25 effort. And as to those in this country, especially those 3-24-03 6 1 that have been deployed to hostile environments, to keep 2 them and their families and their loved ones in your 3 thoughts and prayers and wish them a safe return and a 4 prompt peace to the current difficulties. Secondly, I'd 5 like to, in that vein, thank the Christian Women's Job 6 Corps. Some of you, as you came here today, may have 7 noticed yellow ribbons around the various trees around the 8 courthouse, and that was -- that was the idea of the 9 participants in the Christian Women's Job Corps. Ms. Patty 10 Crick called me late last week and said that her ladies had 11 come up with this, and it's something that they wanted to 12 do, and I was very pleased that she called and -- and gave 13 me this indication, and they wanted to do that, and so we 14 have them to thank for that. And so keep them in your 15 thoughts, too, along with their motivation for doing so. 16 We've also got the opening this week of the 17 Kathleen C. Cailloux theater. It's opening on the 27th, 18 this Thursday evening. That's formerly the old Municipal 19 Auditorium -- I say "the old"; it wasn't that old, but it's 20 been reconfigured and they're having their grand opening of 21 that facility with the San Antonio Symphony. The good -- 22 that's the good news. The bad news is, I understand that 23 there are no tickets. I -- I attempted to make contact with 24 them last week, was unsuccessful, and when I checked this 25 morning, I was told, "Come again another time." So, that's 3-24-03 7 1 the bad news. But those of you that were able to get 2 tickets, I urge you to go. Apparently, it's going to be a 3 full house. And, lastly, I would like to mention to you 4 that the -- the scholarship spectacular that's taking place 5 this Saturday night out at the Y.O. beginning at 6:30, 6 that's being put on by the friends and faculty of Ingram Tom 7 Moore High School, and that's a fund raiser that they hold 8 every year to -- to raise scholarship funds for Ingram Tom 9 Moore graduates, and it's a worthy effort, and I -- I bring 10 it to you for your consideration. Again, let's keep our 11 armed forces members in our thoughts and prayers. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Amen. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: With that, we'll move on to 14 the approval agenda. First item is pay the bills. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move we pay the 16 bills. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded by 19 Commissioners Baldwin and Williams, respectively, that we 20 pay the bills as presented by the County Auditor. Any 21 discussion? All in favor, signify by raising your right 22 hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 3-24-03 8 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. We'll next 2 move to the budget amendments. Budget Amendment Number 1. 3 Mr. Auditor? 4 MR. TOMLINSON: This is a request from 5 Constable, Precinct 3, to transfer $33.60 from Vehicle 6 Repairs and Maintenance to Miscellaneous, and it's for 7 upgrade on his radio, to change the frequency to the 8 Sheriff's Office frequency. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to 12 approve Budget Amendment Request Number 1 by Commissioners 13 Letz and Nicholson, respectively. Any discussion? All in 14 favor, signify by raising your right hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Budget 19 Amendment Request Number 2. 20 MR. TOMLINSON: This is a request from Road 21 and Bridge to transfer $2,000 from Crew Salaries to 22 Part-Time Salaries. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded by 3-24-03 9 1 Commissioners Williams and Letz, respectively, that we 2 approve Budget Amendment Request Number 2. Any further 3 discussion? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Franklin, on that budget 5 amendment, is there a reason -- is there a specific reason 6 we used the part-time up so quick this year? Or do you 7 know? 8 MR. JOHNSTON: I don't think we had -- we had 9 much in part-time to start with. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: $4,055. 11 MR. JOHNSTON: I think we have a retirement 12 coming up, and I think he's wanting to hire a part-time to 13 finish out the year. I think that's the plan. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further discussion? If 15 not, all in favor, signify by raising your right hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Budget 20 Amendment Request Number 3. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 3 is a request from 22 the Sheriff's Department to transfer $133.46 from Operating 23 Expenses to Radio Repairs. That's also for reprogramming of 24 radios. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 3-24-03 10 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded by 3 Commissioners Letz and Nicholson, respectively, to approve 4 Budget Amendment Request Number 3. Any further discussion? 5 All in favor, signify by raising your right hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Budget 10 Amendment Request Number 4. 11 MR. TOMLINSON: This request is from the 12 County Treasurer to transfer $20 from Office Supplies to 13 Books, Publications, and Dues. It's for a $20 invoice from 14 the County Treasurers Association of Texas. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So moved. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded by 18 Commissioners Nicholson and Letz, respectively, to approve 19 Budget Amendment Request Number 4. Any further discussion? 20 All in favor, signify by raising your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Budget 25 Amendment Request Number 5. 3-24-03 11 1 MR. TOMLINSON: Amendment 5 actually 2 increases the budget. This $6,354 is the first 3 installment -- quarterly installment for our receipt of 4 Indigent Defense reimbursement. We will -- we will receive 5 three more payments of that amount. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I understand what you're 7 doing. It's coming in as an income item, and then it's 8 going over into the Court-Appointed Attorney item and just 9 increasing that category by that same amount? 10 MR. TOMLINSON: This is for -- particular one 11 is for Court-Appointed Attorney line item in the County 12 Court at Law. They are out of money in that line item 13 already, and so we're -- with this, we're increasing that 14 line item and the total budget by that amount. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: But we're getting offsetting 16 state funds in? 17 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: On Senate Bill 7? 19 MR. TOMLINSON: That's right. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: For that purpose? 21 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: And that was the express 23 purpose of those funds? 24 MR. TOMLINSON: That's correct. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 3-24-03 12 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded by 4 Commissioners Williams and Letz, respectively, to approve 5 Budget Amendment Request Number 5. Any further discussion? 6 All in favor, signify by raising your right hand. 7 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 9 (No response.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Budget 11 Amendment Request Number 6. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 6 is for the 216th 13 District Court. This request is to transfer $59.98 from 14 Equipment Maintenance, $100 from Miscellaneous, totaling 15 $159.98, to Operating Equipment, and it's to replace a 16 printer. It's a laser printer. The total price is $655.95. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tommy, it says "fax 18 machine" on here. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, it's both. It's a 20 combination. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded by 24 Commissioners Baldwin and Letz, respectively, to approve 25 Budget Amendment Request Number 6. Any further discussion? 3-24-03 13 1 All in favor, signify by raising your right hand. 2 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 4 (No response.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Budget 6 Amendment Request Number 7. 7 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 7 is a request from 8 J.P. 4 to transfer $27.50 from Miscellaneous to Bond line 9 item. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So moved. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded by 13 Commissioners Nicholson and Letz, respectively, to approve 14 Budget Amendment Request Number 7. Any further discussion? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question. Tommy, do you 16 know what bond that's for? It seems like an odd time -- 17 MR. TOMLINSON: Apparently, it's for his 18 clerk. It didn't give a name, but his was paid -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 20 MR. TOMLINSON: -- in January. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further discussion? All 22 in favor, signify by raising your right hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 3-24-03 14 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Do we have 2 any late bills, Mr. Auditor? 3 MR. TOMLINSON: No, we don't. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Monthly reports. I 5 have here before me monthly reports submitted by Justice of 6 the Peace, Precinct 2, and the District Clerk. Do I hear a 7 motion that these reports be approved as submitted? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded by 11 Commissioners Letz and Nicholson, respectively, that the 12 monthly reports of Justice of the Peace, Precinct 2, and 13 District Clerk be approved as submitted. Any discussion? 14 All in favor, signify by raising your right hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Okay. We can 19 now move on to the consideration agenda. First item on the 20 agenda is the Kerrville Economic Development Foundation 21 semiannual report. Mr. Waller. 22 MR. WALLER: Morning, Judge, Commissioners. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: The current president and 24 chairman of the KEDF. 25 MR. WALLER: That's correct. I appreciate 3-24-03 15 1 y'all's time. I've got a summary report -- semiannual 2 report I'll give you at the end of my summary, and it's 3 going to -- this will be more of a synopsis. Sherry 4 Cunningham is -- couldn't be here this morning and asked me 5 to step in for her and just kind of go over these items that 6 we've done up to this point on a semiannual basis for this 7 fiscal year. The Kerr Economic Development Foundation, one 8 of the things we do, we deal -- we have an industry 9 relations team. That industry relations team is currently 10 in progress of -- of going out and talking to 44 different 11 companies that are here and in our market area. They will 12 prepare a report to identify issues and needs, and then KEDF 13 will basically develop a plan of action to address each of 14 these. They've come up with a list of major taxpayers, 15 approximately the top ten, and then also the top ten major 16 employers, and it shows the changes from -- from the last 17 fiscal year. 18 We also have a wage and salary survey in 19 progress. We mailed out 172 survey forms. We received back 20 44. We have reminder calls in process, and will review the 21 results of those surveys, and it just gives us a little 22 better feel of what the employment market is here in this 23 area. Statistics, the economic development packets, are 24 distributed monthly. We have a web site as well where these 25 updates can be found, with any revisions. The -- the 3-24-03 16 1 S.B.D.C., which is Small Business Development Corporation, 2 that's in conjunction -- comes out of U.T.S.A. in San 3 Antonio. We have available counseling sessions for people 4 that are in business, people looking to go in business. 5 They help them with feasibility studies and putting together 6 financial plans and so forth, so that seems to be -- 7 apparently, that's a relationship that's historic and is 8 ongoing. 9 Retention and expansion. That's where the 10 Foundation spends most of its time, retention/expansion of 11 businesses. We're currently looking for someone to do -- 12 and there's a need for someone to do sales and marketing, 13 really, in that area. We need -- we do this really to build 14 the tax base, which helps everybody, to create better paying 15 jobs and to take advantage of opportunities that are before 16 us. Toyota is a good example of an opportunity that might 17 be there for some tangent-related businesses to what they 18 do. We're looking at that, and there are several meetings 19 set up already in the San Antonio area to take a look at 20 those. But we got to take care of what we do have, and we 21 do that under retention and expansion. We talk with 22 businesses in town and -- and help them expand. There are a 23 lot of legislative issues that are critical to our area 24 currently, a lot of things that are undergoing some scrutiny 25 as the State faces a fiscal challenge. Medicaid, health 3-24-03 17 1 care changes, state funding need to be addressed. We really 2 need to -- need to and are in the process on a continual 3 basis, of -- of helping to lobby against funding cuts, major 4 changes, and -- and hospital closures. We talk about the 5 V.A. specifically; I think we've got that covered pretty 6 well. 7 Just to bring to your attention, State 8 Representative Harvey Hilderbran is going to be at the 9 Business Before Hours breakfast this coming Friday, the 10 28th, at 6:45 at the Inn of the Hills. Should be a 11 newsletter going out this week with all the details. The 12 following week, in the same regard, lobbying with our 13 representatives, Senator Troy Fraser, who's the State 14 Senator that represents this area now, he'll be speaking at 15 the -- at a luncheon on April the 4th. We currently -- we 16 invite y'all specifically to attend. In regard to the V.A. 17 Hospital, retired General Schellhase is serving in a task 18 force that's reevaluating and continually evaluating that 19 situation. Basically, they took about 32 bids from V.A. 20 Hospitals around the state to put in an extended living 21 facility in or around those areas. We were basically told 22 through San Antonio that, you know, this was no big deal; 23 that it was a done deal. Well, of course, it wasn't a done 24 deal. I think one went to south Texas, one went to El Paso. 25 The prior time they had this out, we were in the top four, 3-24-03 18 1 and didn't make the cut. General Schellhase is -- has a 2 strong relationship with Princippi, who's the Cabinet 3 representative for veterans affairs, as well as the San 4 Antonio district office. He does a great job of keeping 5 them informed, and he probably heads up one of the strongest 6 lobbying forces for this area. They're one of our top ten 7 employers, so he continues to work in that regard. 8 Mooney Airplane Company. We want to thank 9 the Court for their willingness to consider the application 10 of the Texas Capital Fund on behalf of Mooney. We feel the 11 timing is right. I've had an opportunity over the last 12 month to sit in on three meetings with Nelson Happy, the new 13 C.E.O. out there, and he has a financial consultant, kind of 14 their interim chief financial officer, Jeffrey Sorres. 15 Mooney, as everybody knows, went through a bankruptcy 16 situation. They were purchased by a company called A.A.S.I. 17 out of California. All the operations now are in Kerrville; 18 there are no more California operations at all. The company 19 has investors that were deep-pocket investors from A.A.S.I. 20 Venture, and they had put in 35 to 50 million dollars, and 21 they are continuing to invest in, quote, the new Mooney, 22 Mooney Airplane Company. 23 After visiting with them -- I think we had 24 several here. I think Judge Tinley was there; Commissioner 25 Williams sat in on a couple of those meetings. I feel 3-24-03 19 1 fairly comfortable that they've got their line up and 2 running now. They have three sales people that are out in 3 different parts of the country, and they're gearing up their 4 sales. Their goal is really to be a company that produces 5 about 100 aircraft a year. They're going to stay with the 6 successful Mooney; it's still kind of considered the Rolls 7 Royce of the private passenger plane business. Nelson 8 Happy's background is, he was an attorney by training, but 9 he's been involved in several turn-around companies, and 10 they seem to be addressing the focal points that -- that I, 11 as a banker, would certainly be looking at, so I think we 12 can feel comfortable. They've got about 160 people on board 13 out there now. I don't think they're going to gear up any 14 more to a 600 or so level. They found out a lot of those 15 things they were doing were really not profitable-type 16 segmented operations of the company, so they're going to try 17 to continue to do what they do best. I think their goal 18 their first year, this year, is to do about 60-plus 19 airplanes out there. 20 The Alamo Workforce Development Board, 21 Sherry's involved in that, stays up on their board 22 operations. They're dealing with funding cuts, applications 23 for funds for incumbent workers. They deal with child care. 24 They deal with employer and job seeker services. There are 25 three basic points to economic development: Retention, 3-24-03 20 1 expansion, and attraction. And retention and expansion is 2 where this board is -- has focused heretofore, but I think 3 we're going to -- we're making plans and doing things now to 4 get a little more active in attracting maybe the kinds of 5 businesses that would be -- that would fit in well with the 6 -- the demographics here in Kerr County. Legislation to 7 enable certain incentives has to be put in place before we 8 can go out and really go towards the attraction side. Mindy 9 Wendele and Ron Patterson are working on that now through 10 the City, putting together really a matrix of -- of the 11 things that are available, maybe through the State, from an 12 incentive standpoint. And -- and the other side of that 13 matrix is really what has to be done legislatively before we 14 can pursue any of those. I kind of head up a committee, and 15 I guess I'd call it the local coalition, as opposed to the 16 Iraqi coalition that we have now, really trying to bring 17 together the County and City, the school district, Economic 18 Development Foundation towards common purposes and 19 standards. And I think we've been able to make some strong 20 progress in that regard. 21 We're putting together a web site now. When 22 people -- when businesses around the country are looking for 23 a place to go to either expand their business or to start a 24 new business, most of them now are going to the internet. 25 If you don't meet certain criteria, you're pretty well cut 3-24-03 21 1 off the list. So what we're trying to do, without being 2 over-committal on -- on our web site, is to put the things 3 that we do and the flexibility that we have to maybe 4 customize something for a company looking into this area. 5 We reevaluate this on a continuing basis. As Judge Tinley 6 said, I'm the chairman now of the Kerr Economic Development 7 Foundation. Cordell White resigned as chairman of KEDF. He 8 had a business opportunity to take over a brokerage area in 9 Los Colinas, and took that; he has a lot of family up in 10 that area. A couple of other changes. Jim Miller of the 11 Kerrville Telephone Company and Mike Lowe have been recently 12 appointed to the Executive Committee of KEDF, and Bill 13 Taylor with KPUB has agreed to accept the vice chairman 14 position, with the addendum that he not be pushed up to 15 chairman at the first opportunity. But we appreciate him 16 doing that. 17 I guess, in summary, that's really all we've 18 got. We're moving forward, we think on a positive base, and 19 we have the -- putting -- trying to put the tools in place 20 to maximize the effort of what KEDF does. I'll entertain 21 any questions you might have. And, again, Sherry Cunningham 22 is -- I may have to defer to her for any answers. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mine are pretty 24 simple, Mr. Waller. Thank you very much for being here. 25 Thank you for your service to our community. Where did you 3-24-03 22 1 come from? You and I haven't met. 2 MR. WALLER: Well, I've been here; I run 3 Broadway Bank here, and I've been here -- be two years -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Two years? 5 MR. WALLER: -- May the 1st. I came from 6 Austin. Been in the banking business probably 25-plus 7 years. I've started a couple of banks. I've been a 8 stockbroker. So -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, two years. 10 You're an old-timer. 11 MR. WALLER: That's right. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Around here. New 13 group comes in every night. In your opening remarks, you 14 said something about that the KEDF was out visiting with 44 15 different companies? 16 MR. WALLER: Mm-hmm. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, what is -- I'm 18 not sure if I follow. What 44 different companies? To do 19 what? 20 MR. WALLER: Well, they're going out and 21 talking with 44 different companies that -- and I can't tell 22 you the process where they put together the selected 23 companies, but it should be a broad representation of the 24 businesses here in Kerrville. They want to get a feel as to 25 how things are going. What are the things they need? Are 3-24-03 23 1 they having trouble -- 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 3 MR. WALLER: -- getting employees? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. All right. 5 MR. WALLER: Et cetera. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you have -- do you 7 have a particular number of how many companies we have 8 visited with from outside to try to talk them into moving to 9 Kerrville? Do we do that? 10 MR. WALLER: Well, historically, all those 11 requests have gone through the Chamber of Commerce or the -- 12 their cohort, the business and convention area. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Visitors' Bureau. 14 MR. WALLER: But we really have not been 15 proactive in going out and soliciting companies. I think 16 we're just now getting kind of a grasp on really what would 17 fit in here. Because you have to deal with the -- it's kind 18 of the chicken or the egg theory. You know, if you go out 19 and bring companies in, you got to have housing, you have to 20 have staffing. And I know that Lowe's and Home Depot have 21 had to -- at least the numbers I've heard about, at least 22 half of their people are not local, that they've had to 23 bring in. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just think the 25 public would be interested in knowing at some point, you 3-24-03 24 1 know, are we out visiting with companies, getting them to 2 move in? And I say this every year, so -- 3 MR. WALLER: Well, we are doing that, but it 4 really comes from them coming to us. They like Kerrville; 5 they may like the demographics here, the proximity to San 6 Antonio, different things. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. That's 8 all. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Bob. I 10 know what you're doing. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Appreciate you coming 12 this morning. Good presentation. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Waller, we thank you for 14 being here, and my pleasure to serve with you. 15 MR. WALLER: Thank you. Appreciate your 16 time. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: The Court will next move to 18 Item 2.2, consider and discuss approval of the revised 19 Airport Lease Agreement with Kerrville Aviation, Inc., and 20 authorize signature of County Judge on the same. 21 Mr. Knippel? 22 MR. KNIPPEL: Morning, Commissioners and 23 Judge. We'll take another run at the Court this morning. 24 Hopefully, we've had an opportunity to provide you a little 25 bit better information, so this go around we're not -- 3-24-03 25 1 you're not being confronted cold with some of the issues 2 surrounding this lease document. Since the last time we 3 met, it's my understanding Joe Kennedy, the proprietor of 4 Kerrville Aviation, and the -- the prospective lessee here, 5 has met with a few of you. I know that I've met with one or 6 two of you also to discuss some of the points of the lease, 7 and we have gone back and made some changes to that 8 document. I think one thing that came out of the 9 discussions was -- and that I failed to mention in the -- in 10 the first go-round on this lease, is it's kind of an overall 11 philosophy of the airport, in that insofar as the airport is 12 not really viewed as a profit center. It's not something 13 that is there to generate revenue and build a large fund 14 balance for the -- for the County and the City. 15 So, what is it there for? I think that the 16 airport is -- is an asset to the community in that it 17 provides some services, and -- and a facility that is looked 18 for by potential businesses. As Mr. Waller was saying, 19 several industries or companies or anybody else that's going 20 to come to this area have a few things on their checklist 21 that they're going to look for, and I believe that the 22 airport is one of those things that some of the larger 23 players will look for, so they can get their corporate jets 24 in and out of here, for instance. I think there's other 25 services that are provided for existing tenants and proposed 3-24-03 26 1 that -- that -- by the F.B.O., that it's important that 2 those services be provided at the airport if we're going to 3 make a go of the airport at all. We need to be able to 4 service large jets, need to have a place to put large jets, 5 need to have fueling facilities for them, so forth. 6 Another -- and also, what Mr. Waller 7 mentioned earlier was Mooney, Mooney Aircraft. That's just 8 another example of a large industry that's an 9 aviation-related industry that's on the airport property. 10 That -- that also serves as a draw to others who may look to 11 our airport. It's a recognized name, and it calls attention 12 to the airport as well. So, there is an overall benefit of 13 having airports and having a fully functional and 14 full-service airport available to Kerr County. I think that 15 is the -- that's more of a qualitative benefit than a 16 specific quantitative dollar amount, revenue-generating 17 facility that we're looking for. And then -- and then one 18 last thing on that note is that if you have a profit center, 19 and you -- and you begin to generate income, that can become 20 problematic in that we've accepted a lot of federal money 21 over the years, and once you start using that federal money 22 to generate profits for -- for the sponsoring government, 23 then that can backfire on you. 24 So, we can't really -- the idea with the 25 airport is to operate it on a -- on a narrow margin where 3-24-03 27 1 you're just in the black enough every year, it pays for 2 itself, it's an asset to the community, but that it doesn't 3 grow in fund balance extraordinarily. The changes that 4 were made to the lease from the last time we came, 5 specifically -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Paul, I have a question. 7 MR. KNIPPEL: Yes, sir? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You know, I understand 9 what you're saying about not trying to make a, quote, 10 profit, but at the same time, based on the matching funds 11 that are required for most of federal grants, we need to 12 make money out there somewhere. Otherwise, it's going to be 13 paid for by the general fund of the City and County. So, 14 building up a reserve should be, I would think, very much in 15 line with the purpose of the airport. 16 MR. KNIPPEL: Yes, insofar as that reserve is 17 used to go back into the development of the airport. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. The other part 19 is, you know, I understand -- you know, I mean, again, I 20 understand what you just said, but at the same time, how do 21 you mesh not making money out there with putting private 22 sector businesses out there and encouraging that kind of 23 development out there, which, as I understand, is part of 24 the Airport Master Plan? I mean, the purpose is for us to 25 generate -- you know, to do development out there in the use 3-24-03 28 1 of the facilities revenue, I thought. I mean -- 2 MR. KNIPPEL: It -- to get us to a point 3 where we -- it pays for itself. I don't mean to be -- to 4 mischaracterize; the purpose of the airport is not trying to 5 make money. It does need to make enough money to keep -- to 6 pay for itself. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, even if -- for 8 example, I'm just going to pick on them because I know 9 they're out there; B.A. Products, who has their 10 manufacturing facility out there on the airport property. I 11 mean, hopefully we're trying to make money on that facility. 12 I mean, that's why we're leasing it. 13 MR. KNIPPEL: That's correct. And there's a 14 fair market value assigned to that facility as well. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 16 MR. KNIPPEL: And -- and that is designed 17 to -- to make -- to make money. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. That's just -- I 19 wanted to make sure we were on the same page. 20 MR. KNIPPEL: Yes, sir. I just have a couple 21 more points, and then I'll -- I'll be quiet. The lease, 22 specifically, we went back and asked Kerrville Aviation 23 to -- to generate -- to show earlier rental on the blue 24 hangar specifically so that we could -- instead of having a 25 full 10-year gap we weren't drawing any income on that blue 3-24-03 29 1 hangar, we went back and now we have a lease where we are 2 drawing income during that 10-year period. Also, there's an 3 agreement to have the self-service depot constructed within 4 six months, as opposed to being tied to the timeline of 5 the -- of the new hangar improvements that are also 6 guaranteed by this lease. So, that self-service depot is -- 7 is an important feature, not just for our local-based 8 aircraft, but those who, for instance, may be traveling from 9 Houston out to El Paso, and they can stop here without 10 having to get hung up in San Antonio or -- or Austin at 11 the -- with the air traffic there. They can fly in here, 12 refuel, and be on their way. So, that's an important thing 13 that we'll have rather rapidly. 14 And then there was another issue that had 15 come up at one point about the -- having the Lot 3, which is 16 where the F.B.O. proper is, being -- that lease for that 17 property being conterminous, or ending at the same date with 18 this -- the Lots 9 and 10. That was a valid reason, so that 19 you don't have the F.B.O. owner with staggering ending dates 20 for their lease. We went back and looked at -- we feel like 21 the way that we have it now is actually conterminous. 22 The -- the F.B.O. proper lease for Lot 3 has two 10-year 23 options on it, which once those are both fully exercised, 24 that would end the lease in 2033, which is when this 25 proposed lease for Lots 9 and 10 ends as well, so we feel 3-24-03 30 1 like that goal has been achieved. 2 With all that, we are here to request 3 approval by the Court and authorization of the Judge to 4 execute the lease documents as they are included in your 5 packet now. That could be also subject to some motion, and 6 vote could be subject to any revisions that may come out of 7 this discussion as well. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Paul, direct our 9 attention, if you will, to the contractual reference for the 10 obligation on the part of the lessor to build a new hangar 11 on Lot 9. 12 MR. KNIPPEL: Yes, sir. In sections -- 13 essentially, there's two and a half years to have that 14 improvement on Lot 9 complete. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Final? 16 MR. KNIPPEL: In Section 5.01, application 17 for a building permit must be made within 90 days. In 5.02, 18 the construction on the hangar must commence -- construction 19 on the improvements, which is the hangar on Lot 9, must 20 commence within 180 days. And then in 5.09, which is 21 failure to construct improvements, that Part D there says 22 that everything's got to be done within the second 23 anniversary of the commencement of construction. So, you 24 run all that out and it's a two-and-a-half-year window. 25 But, yes. 3-24-03 31 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have a couple of 3 questions. You talked about we're a go on some rent earlier 4 on the blue building? 5 MR. KNIPPEL: Yes, sir. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What -- the last time 7 you were here, where did we stand on that? There -- there 8 was no rent due until what year? 9 MR. KNIPPEL: Until 2015. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 2015. So, now we're 11 changing that to what? 12 MR. KNIPPEL: To 2011. That -- and beginning 13 rent at that point of $500 a month, and then graduating that 14 upward to -- to 2015. That's shown in the -- in the -- in 15 the column labeled "Blue Hangar Rental." That does leave a 16 time period from 2003 through 2009 when there's no rent 17 collected on that building. That's part of the give of the 18 lease, and part of the economics for -- for Kerrville 19 Aviation. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You said 2011? 21 MR. KNIPPEL: Yes, sir. That's -- yes. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The lessee, in his 23 letter, is requesting to do it in 2010, but -- 24 MR. KNIPPEL: I didn't show any full revenue 25 until 2011 on this -- 3-24-03 32 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 2 MR. KNIPPEL: -- model. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right, fine. Tell 4 me about the -- the fuel -- the flowage fee. Who does that? 5 Obviously, we do not. Who -- who regulates that? 6 MR. KNIPPEL: I may have to get Mr. Kennedy's 7 help on that one. The -- there is a surcharge placed on 8 every gallon of fuel that's sold out there. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right. 10 MR. KNIPPEL: And it is up to the F.B.O. to 11 monitor their flow rate and pay a check back to the airport 12 fund. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Does -- does 14 Mr. Kennedy himself actually set the rate? 15 MR. KNIPPEL: No, the rate is set here. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: In this room? 17 MR. KNIPPEL: By action of the Council and 18 the Court. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. So, just remind 20 me again what that rate is. We're at somewhere around five 21 -- a nickel? 22 MR. KNIPPEL: Yes, sir. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And Fredericksburg is 24 at nine? 25 MR. KNIPPEL: I don't know what 3-24-03 33 1 Fredericksburg is. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just wanted to kind 3 of -- I can't read this thing. I'm sorry, I can't see it. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Starts at 5, goes up 5 to 8. Is that correct? 6 MR. KNIPPEL: Yes. Yeah. The -- that's 7 another mechanism of this lease, is that, heretofore, the 8 fuel rate was set based on what it is at five other airports 9 specifically. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 11 MR. KNIPPEL: And I think it had a cap in 12 there; I'm not sure. It had a percentage cap in there. The 13 new lease now removes that cap. It removes reference to any 14 specific airports. It basically opens up our ability to 15 raise that. I built into the model an incremental upward 16 adjustment, but I think other places run eight, nine cents 17 on a gallon. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask it this 19 way. I'm going to vote on this agreement today. 20 MR. KNIPPEL: Yes, sir. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is the flowage fee 22 moving one way or the other in this agreement? 23 MR. KENNEDY: Paul? 24 (Discussion off the record.) 25 MR. KNIPPEL: It's not moving right now, not 3-24-03 34 1 by virtue of this document. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 3 MR. KNIPPEL: What it does do is -- is put a 4 requirement that the fee be reviewed every six months. That 5 was something that the Airport Board recommended be included 6 in here, so there'll be a review every six months. Now, we 7 can -- that doesn't necessarily mean that there'll be an 8 adjustment every six months. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right. 10 MR. KNIPPEL: But it will -- it will stay in 11 front of us. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Does the Airport Board 13 review that, or does it come into this room? 14 MR. KNIPPEL: I think the Court and the 15 Council would need to take the final action, but there would 16 be a recommendation by the Airport Board. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right. I think 18 we're on the same page. That's good. All right, thank you. 19 MR. KNIPPEL: Yes, sir. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Paul -- do you have any 21 questions? Going back to the construction of the new 22 hangar, I was looking through here trying to find the 23 reference for it, and I think I found it, and it's under the 24 addendum, Item 4. It says, "Lessee shall continue to use 25 the hangar facilities on leased premises and shall have the 3-24-03 35 1 right to construct a new additional hangar on leased 2 premises..." Is that the only reference to it? I mean, 3 it's just -- I've talked to Mr. Kennedy. I know what the 4 plan is, but that seems like a -- a very minimal reference 5 to a -- a huge part of the lease. I mean, I think I'd like 6 to see some specifications as to the size, the nature, the 7 intent on -- I mean, the intent of what that hangar is 8 supposed to be, other than just say he's going to build an 9 additional hangar. That could be a one-plane hangar. 10 MR. KNIPPEL: Yes, sir. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's not the intent. I 12 know it's not Mr. Kennedy's intent, but I think it should be 13 clarified. 14 MR. KNIPPEL: Okay. I think there's -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maybe there's somewhere 16 in here that I haven't found more specifically. 17 MR. KNIPPEL: I can't think of where that 18 would be, off the top of my head. But I don't think 19 Mr. Kennedy -- I'm going to speak for him right now -- would 20 have a problem with this, putting minimal dimensional 21 requirements in there. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's, in my mind, a big 23 part of the lease package, is that hangar and the reason for 24 doing it at this time and the way we're doing it. And the 25 other item on this -- the spreadsheet that's attached -- my 3-24-03 36 1 eyes are similar to Commissioner Baldwin's; I can't read the 2 writing on it. What is the -- I guess the total to the 3 City/County over the term of the lease? 4 MR. KNIPPEL: I apologize for that size. I 5 turned in one on 11-by-17; it's a little bit easier to read, 6 but I think it was reduced for ease of reproduction. The 7 total to the City/County would be in the second column to 8 the end on the right-hand side down at the bottom, and it 9 shows $1.4 million. And that's based on a number of 10 assumptions that are built in here. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. That's, as I 12 recall, $100,000, $150,000 more than the one that was 13 presented previously? Wasn't that 1.3? 14 MR. KNIPPEL: Roughly, yes, sir, about 15 $100,000 more. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And on the -- I guess, 17 going back to the fuel flowage thing, I was trying to find 18 the reference to the hangar and wasn't -- maybe you answered 19 this. On that fee, I guess the -- my thinking is that we 20 need the City/County or whoever sets this -- I'm still not 21 real clear how that is set, but that needs to be set below 22 the other airports. I mean, we don't want to go to the max 23 everyone else is charging. The intent has been all along 24 for us to price things out there to get volume of traffic, 25 increase the fuel flowage fee, so we want to make sure that 3-24-03 37 1 that's kept at -- like, if New Braunfels, Fredericksburg's 2 at eight, I think we should be, like, seven and a half 3 cents. I mean, it's not -- and I'm making that reference 4 because of what I hear about the T-hangars, you know, that 5 we're higher -- we're not renting them because they're too 6 expensive still. And I think it's a different issue, but I 7 think it's something we need to look at whenever we have our 8 joint meeting. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Be competitive in the 10 marketplace. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Be competitive in the 12 marketplace with everything we're doing. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with 14 everything the Commissioner just said, except it should be 15 County/City, not City/County. (Laughter.) 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I was being nice today. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Nicholson? Do 18 you have any questions or comments? 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Not at this time. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Knippel, I -- the base 21 F.B.O. lease on -- I believe it's Lot 3 where the current 22 headquarters of operation is, on Katz Aviation -- Kerrville 23 Aviation, excuse me; I probably go back too far. But I note 24 that there's not a copy of that lease agreement in these 25 materials, and I'm sure we've got one somewhere, but I'm not 3-24-03 38 1 sure where it is. My -- my first knowledge of those two 2 10-year option periods on that lease was in these materials 3 in the -- in the explanatory portions of what you provided 4 to us. I would very much like to review those, as well as 5 possibly get with our County Attorney on that also. 6 MR. KNIPPEL: Yes, sir. I can provide that 7 to you, certainly. I think from the time the request came 8 in to get on this agenda, we didn't have a lot of days to 9 get another meeting. We need to discuss that. The -- I 10 don't -- I'll get those to you for sure, but the language 11 does read such that it says that the lessee will have the 12 right to request an extension if he does so in writing ahead 13 of time. Then -- then the airport and the lessee will enter 14 into negotiation, and it says that the subject of that 15 negotiation will be the rate and the time -- or the rate and 16 maybe something else, but the language is that it's there 17 for the taking, in my opinion. But -- 18 JUDGE TINLEY: I'd sure like to review it. 19 MR. KNIPPEL: Yes, sir. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: So that I'd have a grasp of 21 the total scheme of things. I think it would be helpful. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, are you 23 suggesting that we hold up approving this today? Is that 24 what you're -- or are you talking about something separate 25 than this? 3-24-03 39 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I -- I think it would be 2 helpful to look at those particular options in the scheme of 3 things to have a better grasp on the entire proposal, 4 because that -- I think it all fits in one package. And it 5 needs to be in a -- more than one package in order that it 6 can be competitive in the marketplace when it's open to the 7 general public. That's my thought. And I'd like to look at 8 that existing lease agreement on the existing F.B.O. 9 operation. We had some discussions, as I'm sure Mr. Knippel 10 remembers, based upon the -- based upon the knowledge that 11 the F.B.O. lease term ended in 2013, and there was not any 12 suggestion about two option periods of 10 years each beyond 13 that during the course of those discussions. So, our 14 discussions were in large measure predicated on the aspect 15 that the base Kerrville Aviation lease was going to end in 16 2013, and we had some thoughts and ideas in that regard as a 17 result of that. Now we've got a different premise, is my 18 whole point. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I see. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: And I'd like to see exactly 21 what the terms of those options are and try and fit them 22 into the entire scheme of things. That's my -- that's my 23 point. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. And I agree 25 with that. I think that's very wise. However, I want to -- 3-24-03 40 1 just let me say this. I think that Mr. Kennedy is somewhat 2 under the gun as far as, you know, getting his -- getting 3 his operation going, you know, dealing with his funding and 4 dealing with his commitments and those kinds of things out 5 there. And he is here, as well as his attorney, and I was 6 wondering, you know, if we're going to hold this up -- whole 7 thing up, can we try to do that right now? To get your 8 questions answered right now? Or are we going to put this 9 thing off for another month? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: I -- you know, it's your 11 pleasure. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can we do it subject 13 to -- 14 JUDGE TINLEY: The chair will entertain a 15 motion, but I just think it would be prudent to see exactly 16 what the terms of those -- of those options are before we 17 proceed forward. I would point out that the blue hangar 18 lease that fits in this equation, the current lease on it 19 doesn't expire until 2005. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Correct. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: So we're not under a time 22 frame problem there. Now, I don't know what Mr. Kennedy's 23 current negotiations are with -- with his financing sources 24 or his contractors regarding the construction of this new 25 building. As you see, he's got 180 days in order, I 3-24-03 41 1 believe, to apply for a building permit. Is that correct, 2 Paul? 3 MR. KNIPPEL: He's got 90 days. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Ninety days to just apply for 5 the building permit, and then his construction commences -- 6 MR. KNIPPEL: Six months after that. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 8 MR. KNIPPEL: Or after. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: So, from a time frame 10 standpoint, I don't know. He might feel like he's under the 11 gun and there may be some things I don't know about it, but 12 my perception of the -- of the entire scheme of things is, 13 he's not that much under the gun that we couldn't -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll let him -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: -- spend another two to three 16 weeks to review it. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're probably 18 correct, and I probably spoke out of turn trying to speak 19 for someone else, but I was just trying to move this thing 20 along a little bit. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It might be helpful 22 in that connection to hear from Mr. Kennedy what his plans 23 are and what, if any, other considerations he's dealing 24 with. 25 MR. KENNEDY: Would you like me to come up? 3-24-03 42 1 Excuse me. The time frame is really dictated by the people 2 that are wanting these -- these airplanes in the hangar. In 3 fact, I've got one aircraft that's going to be here in a few 4 weeks; I had to negotiate a temporary deal with L.D. 5 Brinkman Corporation to let us house an aircraft in one of 6 his hangars -- in his hangar, because we're not able to have 7 the hangar ready by then. The time frame that you're 8 referring to in the leases are simply there to put some 9 restraints on me so that I don't drag it out. My intention 10 is to move forward the minute I get these leases signed. I 11 have every intention of doing so, and I need to get it done; 12 I have to get it done quickly. But I did verify -- 13 doublecheck the language in the lease, and the options are 14 there. I don't think Paul was really aware that they were 15 there at the time that you guys had your meeting, but I did 16 get with David and verified that they are there. I think 17 Ilse's also looked at those options. I've always been aware 18 of them, but I don't think that everybody else was really -- 19 like I said, Paul got kind of thrown into this at the last 20 minute, since we lost our airport manager. But, other than 21 that, that's really all I have. I think he pretty well 22 covered it. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, Joe. 24 That's the least I've ever heard him say. This is great. 25 MR. KENNEDY: Been a long morning already. 3-24-03 43 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that, you know, 2 my preference would be -- I certainly don't want to hold up 3 Mr. Kennedy, and if we can do some kind of a -- if it would 4 help him in any way, some sort of a motion of intent or 5 subject to a few details, but it still needs to go to the 6 County Attorney before we can get a final signature on it. 7 And if the City can -- you know, the one thing that I really 8 had in there regarding the, you know, specifications of the 9 new hangar, get those included, then we can get it to the 10 County Attorney. I don't have a problem with making a 11 motion and finalizing that subject to that being done, and 12 not -- and not authorizing the County Judge to sign it until 13 those changes are included. And if they're not, if he has 14 any questions, he can just put it on our next agenda; we can 15 deal with it then. If it does come through, he's satisfied 16 that those -- the concern that I had is included, and that 17 his concerns about the other leases are satisfied, and the 18 County Attorney has it, I don't have any problem with 19 dealing with this today. I think it's -- I appreciate Paul 20 coming back. And, you know, I understand the situation a 21 lot better now, and I -- I think that scrutiny that we've 22 gone through the last couple weeks has improved the terms to 23 the City and the County -- or the County and the City. I'm 24 ready to move forward. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Supposing we try to 3-24-03 44 1 frame a motion, Judge, that we approve it subject to the 2 favorable review of the County Attorney and the County 3 Judge, and if there are any problems that are evidenced as a 4 result, you will deal with them at a subsequent meeting. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I gather that was a motion? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It is now. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Does that motion include 9 Commissioner Letz' concerns about a -- a delineation of the 10 type of improvements to be constructed? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It does if it's 12 necessary. Yes, it does. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. And your second, 14 likewise? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion's been made and 17 seconded by Commissioners Williams and Baldwin, 18 respectively, that -- that the Court approve the revised 19 airport lease agreement with Kerrville Aviation, 20 Incorporated, and authorize County Judge to sign same, 21 contingent upon the lease document including a delineation 22 of the particulars and the specifics and specifications of 23 improvements of the new hangar to be constructed, and 24 further contingent upon the approval -- favorable approval 25 of the County Attorney and the County Judge of -- of the 3-24-03 45 1 lease agreement in question, and also a review of the 2 existing lease agreement on Lot 3, I believe it is, where 3 the current Kerrville Aviation fixed-base operation is 4 located. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And authorize the 6 County Judge to sign same if everything is okay. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: And authorize the County Judge 8 to sign same if everything meets those conditions. 9 Otherwise, the matter could be brought back before the Court 10 at the next meeting. Does that fairly state the motion? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Any further 13 discussion? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can you repeat -- no. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Being no further discussion, 16 all in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 17 hand. 18 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Gentlemen, 22 thank you for being here. 23 MR. KNIPPEL: Thanks. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Boy, you're getting 25 good at this stuff. Getting good. Just always put County 3-24-03 46 1 first. 2 MR. KNIPPEL: Next time we'll bring this to 3 you ahead of time so we don't have to go through this in 4 open session. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Paul. I appreciate 6 it. 7 MR. KNIPPEL: Thank you. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: The next item is consider and 9 discuss approval of the Kerr County Emergency Management 10 Hazard Analysis. Mr. Spenrath, are you present here? Yes, 11 there are you are. Come forward, please, sir. Our fire 12 marshal. 13 MR. SPENRATH: Good morning, gentlemen. This 14 document's been drawn up at the request of the Texas 15 Emergency Management Commission. Ingram could have done 16 one, Kerr County could have done one, and City of Kerrville 17 could have done one. We spoke with all of the people 18 involved, and we decided that we couldn't get it all put 19 into one document. And we discussed this with the emergency 20 management people, and they were in agreement with it. The 21 tool is designed to help us in case there is a disaster, and 22 any of the three entities I've listed, that you would be 23 able to apply for and possibly get up to 20 to 30 percent 24 additional funding in a disaster situation. This isn't 25 something that's required to be done; it's something that 3-24-03 47 1 we've chosen to do. And before you this morning is the 2 document, and it's not an adoption-type document. It's 3 strictly for -- to be read and approved by yourselves, and 4 authorize the Judge to sign same, so that it is written into 5 the minutes of the County Commissioners, and it's an 6 approval. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Spenrath, you indicate 8 that -- that this is not something that's required under 9 state or federal law; however, if we want to be eligible for 10 certain grant-type funding for disaster-type situations, we 11 are either not eligible or less eligible, are we not, for 12 those funds if we don't have this document in place? 13 MR. SPENRATH: Correct, sir. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I commend you on the 16 document. It's a good document. 17 MR. SPENRATH: Thank you. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I was going to say the 19 same thing. It was a great summary of Kerr County, all 20 different aspects of it. I move approval. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion's been made and 23 seconded by Commissioners Letz and Williams that we 24 approve -- the Court approve the Kerr County Emergency 25 Management Hazard Analysis and authorize the signature of 3-24-03 48 1 the County Judge, if necessary. Any further discussion? 2 All in favor, signify by raising your right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. 7 MR. SPENRATH: And this is the signature 8 sheet, Judge. When everybody's signature is on it, we'll 9 provide you with a copy of that for your reference. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Next item, 2.4, 11 consider and discuss audit report of financial data for 12 fiscal year ending September 30th, 2002, performed by 13 Pressler, Thompson and Company. Mr. Sundberg, how are you 14 this morning? 15 MR. SUNDBERG: Doing just fine, so far. I'd 16 like to start on Page 2 of the audit report. Page 2 is not 17 necessarily the second page in there, but it is our 18 auditor's report, and we'd just like to hit on a couple 19 paragraphs. The third paragraph down, which reads, "In our 20 opinion, the general purpose financial statements referred 21 to above present fairly, in all material respects, the 22 financial position of Kerr County as of September 30, 2002, 23 and the results of its operations and cash flows," et 24 cetera, in essence being a clean opinion, as they refer to 25 it. The other thing, the last paragraph on that page is new 3-24-03 49 1 this year; was not there last year. That is a result of the 2 federal funds that you expended during this last year. 3 The Office of Management and Budget requires 4 that once a nonprofit or governmental entity expends in 5 excess of $300,000, they're required to have what they term 6 a single audit, which means we have to do additional testing 7 on those expenditures, the contracts, grants, et cetera, to 8 make sure you're in compliance. And, from our perspective, 9 that's what that paragraph alludes to. And those reports 10 are back farther in the report; we'll touch on those in just 11 a minute. On Pages 4 and 5 is the combined balance sheet of 12 all the governmental fund types. I'm not going to go over 13 all of them, just a couple. The first one, the first column 14 on Page 4, which is the General Operating Fund, indicating 15 you have total assets of $4,693,000, total liabilities of 16 $1,044,000, resulting in an undesignated fund balance of 17 $3,649,000 for your General Operating Fund. 18 The first column on the next page, which is 19 Proprietary Fund, or the Juvenile Detention Facility, has 20 total assets of $2,802,000, total liabilities of $1,977,000, 21 the majority of which is the mortgage on the facility out 22 there, giving them a Retained Earnings fund balance of 23 $824,852. On Page 6 and 7 is the combined statement of 24 revenues and expenditures of the governmental funds. I'll 25 just -- and we can go over any of these that you want to. 3-24-03 50 1 I'm just touching on a few of them here. The General Fund 2 on Page 6, total revenues are $10,176,000, total 3 expenditures of $9,762,000, giving you excess revenues over 4 expenditures for the year of $414,506. There were some 5 transfers in and out of the General Fund to other 6 governmental-type funds. This resulted here again in the 7 fund balance being $3,649,000. 8 Starting on Page 8 is the budget comparison 9 with actual activity for the year. As you can see there in 10 the General Fund, we had total budgeted revenues of 11 $10,008,677, actual revenues of $10,176,594, or you received 12 $167,917 more than was originally budgeted. Total 13 expenditures, $10,052,915 budgeted. Actual, $9,764,617, or 14 $288,000 less than budgeted, resulting in $400,000-plus 15 excess revenues over expenditures for the year. I'd like to 16 skip over to Page 15, which is the salient revenues and 17 expenses for the Juvenile Detention Facility. They had 18 total revenues of $1,714,000 for the year, total operating 19 expenses of $1,531,000, or a net operating revenue of 20 $182,000. They had some nonoperating income and expenses; 21 income of -- $5,000 of interest income, and $166,000 of 22 interest expended on the mortgage on the facility out there, 23 resulting in a net profit for the year of $21,605. 24 On Page 19 starts the notes to the financial 25 statements. I'm not going to go through all those, just a 3-24-03 51 1 couple. I'd like to highlight on Page 26 and 27, Note D on 2 Page 26, which is a note detailing the long-term debt, bonds 3 and capital leases outstanding as of the end of the year; 4 shows the additions during the year, the retirements during 5 the year, and the debt service requirements for the next 6 five years on the long-term debt of Kerr County. Note E on 7 top of the next page details the outstanding debt of the 8 Juvenile Detention Facility, showing the principal payments 9 made during the year and the balance outstanding, and a note 10 indicating that after the end of the fiscal year, that 11 mortgage was paid off and the new one entered into and the 12 issuance of those -- of the revenue bonds. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can you go back to -- on 14 Page 26 under Note D? 15 MR. SUNDBERG: Sure. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I see the 1998 tax 17 anticipation note and the 1994 general obligation. 18 MR. SUNDBERG: Mm-hmm. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where's the -- the tax 20 anticipation note of last year? The 2001, I guess. The one 21 with the radio equipment. 22 MR. SUNDBERG: It's the last one there. The 23 900 -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Oh, okay, so this 25 is a general obligation bond. Okay. What's the difference 3-24-03 52 1 between a general obligation bond and tax anticipation note? 2 MR. TOMLINSON: There's statutory 3 differences. It has to do with a lot of -- some of it has 4 to do with the terms that are allowed by statute. Another 5 one might be that the purpose of -- of the debt could be 6 different between the tax note and a certificate of 7 obligation. I don't have those statutory revisions in front 8 of me, so I don't recall what those differences are, but 9 there are some. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In the case of the 11 Juvenile Center, aren't those intended to be revenue bonds? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: They're revenue bonds, yeah. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the capital lease 14 obligations? Those are for? 15 MR. SUNDBERG: Mostly for -- for road 16 maintenance and the Sheriff's vehicles. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To vehicles and 18 equipment? 19 MR. SUNDBERG: Right. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. 21 MR. SUNDBERG: From about Page 27 through 22 Page 80 is a lot of combining statements. They're all the 23 special revenue, debt service, and agency funds. Unless you 24 want to go through those, we'll skip over all those and go 25 back, starting on Page 82, which we get into the federal 3-24-03 53 1 area that I mentioned before. On Page 82 is the auto report 2 that we have to issue, reporting on compliance and internal 3 controls over your financial reporting in accordance with 4 government auditing standards. There's two sections, 5 Compliance and Internal Controls. We noted -- we do not 6 note any matters in either one that would involve reporting 7 in this issue. On the next page, on Page 83, is a new 8 report this year, here again regarding the federal funds 9 expended in accordance with O.M.B. Circular A-133, which is 10 the single audit requirement, here again reporting on the 11 compliance and internal controls over those -- those funds 12 and those programs, and we had no instances of noncompliance 13 or internal control issues in those -- in those areas that 14 are required to be reported here. 15 On Page 85 is a Schedule of Findings and 16 Questioned Costs. This is the area in which, if there were 17 items that we had noted regarding those federal programs, 18 that we would be reporting them on -- on this report. And, 19 as you can see in Items Number 2 and 3 below, the bottom of 20 that page, there were no findings that we noted. On Page 21 86, that, again, is a new statement this year, which is the 22 schedule of those expenditures on the federal programs, 23 listing each -- each program, each -- the total expenditures 24 in each program, and the -- the C.F.D.A. number in the 25 second column in there is a number that's assigned to each 3-24-03 54 1 one of those federal programs by the federal government. 2 That would tend to indicate what the requirements are if you 3 go to that number and so forth. Basically, that's it. You 4 have the management letter in front of you also for our 5 recommendations for this year. Is there any -- are there 6 any questions or anything you want me to go over that I 7 didn't? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Where are we with respect to 9 the new government accounting standard? 10 MR. SUNDBERG: The GASB-34 reporting 11 requirements, Tommy and I have had several conversations 12 regarding that, and he is -- he's in the process of making 13 some changes, and so that that reporting will be -- we'll be 14 able to do that reporting for this coming year. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Am I correct that it must be 16 in place October 1 this year? 17 MR. SUNDBERG: Technically, yes. October 1 18 of '01 -- excuse me, '02. Get my years right. That's 19 correct. 20 MR. TOMLINSON: That's correct. Actually, 21 it's part of the statement of September the 30th, '03. That 22 will be the first time that we issue a statement under 23 that -- under GASB-34. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: So, it's transitioned in this 25 particular fiscal year, and by the time we get to the end of 3-24-03 55 1 this fiscal year, we'll have our first statement under the 2 new standard; then we'll start the next fiscal year on that 3 standard? 4 MR. SUNDBERG: That's correct. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that where we are? 6 MR. TOMLINSON: That's correct. 7 MR. SUNDBERG: That's correct. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, thank you. Any other 9 questions for the gentlemen? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move we accept the -- 11 the audit report financial -- audit report of financial data 12 for fiscal year ending September 30, 2002, as presented by 13 Pressler Thompson. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded by 16 Commissioners Letz and Williams, respectively, that the 17 Court accept the financial report for the fiscal year ending 18 September 30, as presented -- prepared and presented by 19 Pressler, Thompson and Company, be approved. Any further 20 discussion? All in favor, signify by raising your right 21 hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Looks like 3-24-03 56 1 we're about at our mid-morning break point. Why don't we 2 recess until, oh, maybe a couple minutes after 10:30, and 3 we'll reconvene at that time. 4 (Recess taken from 10:21 a.m. to 10:35 a.m.) 5 - - - - - - - - - - 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let me call the meeting 7 back to order. We'll reconvene the meeting. It's a little 8 after 10:30. We'll now move to item 2.5, consider and 9 discuss request for waiver of immediate inspection of septic 10 system at 302 Ranchero Road. Commissioner Williams. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Judge. I 12 put this on the agenda at the request of real estate -- 13 realtor Beverly Buffington, on behalf of her client, and it 14 deals with a property on Ranchero Road, 302-A and -B. It's 15 not an unusual request. There is some precedent for this 16 Court having done that, but we did it on a commercial 17 property, as opposed to -- well, I guess this is commercial, 18 in a sense. And so I think what the Court needs to hear is 19 some discussion from either the prospective buyer, who is 20 Liz Price, and/or her representative, Ms. Buffington, as to 21 what's going to happen, and let the Court ask some 22 questions. 23 MS. BUFFINGTON: Good morning. I'm here to 24 represent Mr. Hunter, who is the owner. He's advanced in 25 years, and asked if I would be here in his stead. You will 3-24-03 57 1 notice on Page 4 of the earnest money contract that you have 2 in your packet, Paragraph 11 states that the buyer is aware 3 of the septic system and is aware of the proposed public 4 sewer that is anticipated to be in there somewhere between 5 12 and 24 months. Has agreed that at the time the 6 connection is allowed, will immediately connect. If there's 7 a failure of the system in the meantime, will upgrade or 8 replace. Any other questions? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, dealing with 10 failure, yes. That's mandatory. That has to be a part of 11 an agreement that would be executed between the buyer, 12 seller, and Kerr County, if the Court approves. And in 13 that, we have to deal with failure. If a failure occurs, we 14 want to know that that system's going to be taken care of 15 immediately. Secondly, I think the only other one that we 16 did gave the purchaser a rather large window of opportunity 17 after the sewer line was delivered to -- near -- on or about 18 his property, and having reflected on that large window of 19 opportunity, I think it probably, in this case, would be 20 appropriate to narrow that window, by -- by virtue of 21 commitment in writing to do -- to be attached to the sewer 22 within, say, 100 -- 90 to 120 days after his line is 23 certified having gone by, and the line is online with the 24 City. Not just that the line has gone past the property; it 25 has to be online -- the collection system has to be online 3-24-03 58 1 with the City of Kerrville. That's just my thought. Other 2 members of the Court may have other thoughts about that. I 3 think the window needs to come down measurably in terms like 4 this, because we'll have people strung out all over the 5 place if we do this. This is the second one, and it's quite 6 likely there will be others as -- as we get closer to -- 7 also, there are a lot of folks on Ranchero and the mobile 8 home park who, by reason of their economics, qualify for 9 hookup. I don't -- I'd like for you to address that. I 10 would venture to suggest that that would not be the case in 11 this particular property. 12 MS. BUFFINGTON: This buyer, to my knowledge, 13 would not be asking for assistance. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 15 MS. BUFFINGTON: Is that correct? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that should 17 be embodied in the agreement also. 18 MS. BUFFINGTON: And when you say "narrow the 19 window," are you saying narrow the window to 120 days, or 20 down from 120 days? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: To. Down from what 22 it was to a hundred -- 23 MS. BUFFINGTON: To 120. I think that's 24 reasonable. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Other members of the 3-24-03 59 1 Court may have more specific thoughts on it. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Anybody else got any comments? 3 Questions? 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I've got questions, 5 I think. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And Commissioner 8 Williams has probably got the answer to these. This Order 9 Number 27522 that was dealing with the same sort of thing, 10 more or less, for Rancho Oaks Mobile Home Park, that -- that 11 was put in here as an example or a precedent for this? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And they're very 14 close to the same thing. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That we're 17 essentially saying, since this service is coming up, we'll 18 grant you a waiver, and then you'll hook up when it happens. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And will hook up. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Would you reasonably 21 anticipate that we're going to continue to see these kinds 22 of requests? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Commissioner, I don't 24 know, but I would suspect there could be others. I didn't 25 -- I didn't have any advance warning that this was going to 3-24-03 60 1 come until Ms. Buffington called me, but it just stands to 2 reason there may be others that will come down. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And what -- I think 4 what I understand is that a nonintrusive inspection's being 5 done. There's no indication that this -- this septic system 6 is not functioning properly? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let's ask Mr. Barron 8 right now. I don't know the answer to that. 9 MR. BARRON: Could you repeat -- 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Have you looked at 11 the property? 12 MR. BARRON: No, sir, not this property. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let's talk to the 14 realtor. 15 MR. BUFFINGTON: We'll make a formal request 16 that Mr. Barron visit the site. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, good. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question. I have no 19 problem with doing the -- I believe it's a waiver, but 20 who's -- who are the parties to the agreement to make sure 21 this is done? Is this between the County and the purchaser, 22 or -- I mean, how are we -- how do we track these? If we 23 have -- you know, this will be the second one, you know, and 24 then we end up with -- they're all going to have potentially 25 different dates when these have to be hooked up. What's the 3-24-03 61 1 mechanism that you envision to track these? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a good 3 question, Commissioner, and I think -- I think we need to 4 establish that mechanism and identify what it is. I would 5 think that since U.G.R.A. is the partner in this, that once 6 a waiver is granted, the O.S.S.F. Designated Representative 7 would have a file card that says "Waiver granted," and the 8 period of time that this has to take place after the system 9 is online with the City of Kerrville, and to make certain 10 that that's done. Otherwise, if it's not done, the County 11 Attorney gets a telephone call. And can we depend on you to 12 set that up? 13 MR. BARRON: Yes. We'll have to wait till 14 the clock starts ticking when the sewer comes available, or 15 when everybody -- when it's hooked up through the City, and 16 then the time will start ticking, and we'll just check them 17 off as we go by. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: I think -- I think, in 19 response to your question, Commissioner Letz, you're 20 probably going to have three parties that are a party to 21 that agreement. One is the current property owner, who's 22 the seller, because under the current existing Section 10 23 rule, the obligation is on that party -- the compliance 24 aspect of Section 10 is on the seller, as that rule is 25 currently written. Secondly, the buyer, if the buyer's 3-24-03 62 1 going to assume that responsibility or take that off of the 2 seller's back and also assume the responsibility. And, 3 thirdly, it would be Kerr County, insofar as granting the 4 waiver or the variance, as the case may be, and specifying 5 terms upon which it's granted. That's -- that's what I see 6 as the parties to the agreement. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree, Judge, and I 8 would ask a couple questions. Who will represent the 9 purchaser and the seller to develop a contract that would be 10 presented for review by the County Attorney and the Court? 11 You have to -- somebody has to know. 12 MR. BUFFINGTON: We'll have to -- 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You'll have to make 14 that decision. 15 MR. BUFFINGTON: We would have to go to an 16 attorney to have something drawn up. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Has to be -- the 18 formalized agreement has to embody the seller, purchaser, 19 and Kerr County. And, secondly, Stuart, I think that it 20 might be appropriate, upon inspection of this premises, that 21 you report to the Court your findings, so that that if there 22 has to be a trigger earlier, that we know what that is. 23 MR. BARRON: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that 25 agreement's -- to me, it's a one-page -- I mean, I don't -- 3-24-03 63 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, it's -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's a simple -- just -- 3 we don't need a lengthy -- 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Doesn't have to be 5 like the airport agreement, 90 pages long. Doesn't have to 6 be. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think -- and, 8 Stuart, you need to set up some sort of a system so as soon 9 as it's eligible to be hooked up to the system, that you 10 send a letter to whoever is designated to say your clock's 11 starting to run now, so that they -- you know, they're 12 clearly aware of when that clock starts. 13 MR. BARRON: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What is the name of 15 the seller? 16 MR. BUFFINGTON: Felix Hunter. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I would move 18 that the Court approve the request as presented that would 19 enable Felix Hunter and Liz Price to enter into an agreement 20 with Kerr County for a waiver of -- of action on a septic 21 system at 302 Ranchero Road, with the clear understanding 22 that the quid pro quo for that waiver is hooking onto the 23 sewer system within 120 days of it becoming available, and 24 that the contract be presented for review to the County 25 Attorney, and that Mr. Barron, O.S.S.F. Designated 3-24-03 64 1 Representative, inspect the system as quickly as possible 2 and report back to the Court his findings. We're really not 3 doing a waiver of inspection; we're doing a waiver of 4 hookup -- or of improvement. That's -- you're asking for 5 inspection. 6 MR. BARRON: Yeah, that would be the 7 difference. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're waiving the 9 issuance of a license, technically, are we not? Let's think 10 about it here for a minute. 11 MR. BARRON: Maybe not so much the license, 12 but just the -- we're going to do an inspection. If I 13 understand what y'all are saying, we have to still go out 14 there and do the inspection, but if we find something wrong 15 with the system, but it's not causing a nuisance condition, 16 we're allowing it to remain operating until the time that it 17 can be hooked onto the City -- to the sewer. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it's a surface 20 inspection. We're not doing an intrusive inspection. 21 MR. BARRON: Yes. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's my motion, 23 Judge. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll second it. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded by 3-24-03 65 1 Commissioners Williams and Baldwin, respectively. Any 2 further discussion? All in favor, signify by raising your 3 right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Did you notice how 9 cleverly he didn't repeat that motion? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: You noticed that, did you? 11 MS. BUFFINGTON: May I ask one more question? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. 13 MS. BUFFINGTON: After that document is 14 presented and after our noninvasive inspection, this is to 15 be presented back to the County Attorney? Or -- 16 JUDGE TINLEY: County Attorney will -- one of 17 the requirements of the motion is that the County Attorney 18 approve it. Upon his approval, well, then I'll sign it. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Beverly, if you'll 20 bring it back to me, I'll send a cover note to the County 21 Attorney. 22 MS. BUFFINGTON: Thank you. Appreciate it. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Next item, 2.6, consider and 24 discuss approval for Kerr County Sheriff's Department to 25 apply for a department credit card. 3-24-03 66 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Before we get started, I 2 first want to say thank you, Judge, and to the Court and the 3 ladies group that put the yellow ribbons around. I think, 4 being a father of a military man, it does mean a lot to me 5 too. Secondly, to keep my own preservation, 'cause I do 6 enjoy being Sheriff, and my wife will kill me if she gets 7 too much more of our personal credit cards over $1,000 to 8 $2,000 charges on them, and having to wait and get that 9 money back, I'm trying to find a way that we can get a 10 blanket, or two, Sheriff's Department credit card. We are 11 having a real problem. This last week, when I deployed two 12 officers to California, of course, we had to make those on 13 credit card reservations, 'cause we don't have that type of 14 cash around. And then you also -- we ran into the problem 15 that once they got there, they had to rent a car, and you 16 cannot rent a car with a credit card unless the person 17 that's named on the credit card is actually renting that 18 car. And then you have financial, you know, differences 19 with employees that may or may not qualify for one of those 20 other types of credit cards that the Court went to before. 21 So, I don't know if there is a way that we 22 can apply and get permission to get a corporate-type card 23 that is just in the Sheriff's Office name, to where I can 24 keep it and issue it out in those type of circumstances, or 25 when we're having training and things like that, to where 3-24-03 67 1 these people can use it. I know my personal credit card got 2 several thousand dollars worth of expenses put on it this 3 last week. My chief deputy's personal credit card got 4 several hundred, if not close to $1,000 expenses put on his, 5 and it's just kind of hard to be able to operate when you 6 have one of those type circumstances. And then, of course, 7 our day-to-day stuff on training and trying to schedule and 8 reserve hotel rooms and that is really making it difficult 9 without a department credit card. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll give my annual 11 canned speech. County expenses should not be put on your 12 personal credit card, period. However, you come up with a 13 plan, and I'll vote for it. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, I need -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What's the plan? 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't know if we can 17 check with, like, American Express or one of those to where 18 they will do a corporate card in the Sheriff's Department 19 name itself. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I was going to ask 21 you, what's wrong with the American Express account -- 22 corporate account system that Kerr County already has set 23 up? 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Because my understanding 25 is, with that system, each individual has to apply for their 3-24-03 68 1 own, and I have a lot of people that cannot do that, and 2 they're the ones that have to go on these trips and -- and 3 make these trips and do the investigations and the different 4 schools and that, and they can't get them. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's ask them again 6 if we can get a corporate card without a specific name being 7 on there. Kerr County Sheriff's Department. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's try that again 10 with them. They are really, really flexible in all other 11 areas. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's just been a hard 13 problem getting -- 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I've not heard of 15 anybody that's had a problem with American Express cards, in 16 terms of using it, in terms of accounting for their use of 17 it, in terms of paying it in a timely manner. I've not 18 heard of any problems. Have you? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. It's just 20 they're -- not all County employees can get one. That's the 21 problem. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Let's ask. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Their personal financial 24 status has a lot to do with that. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: As opposed to a credit 3-24-03 69 1 card, could we look into doing a -- setting up a debit card? 2 And have it in -- you know, we could set up several. Seems 3 to me to be an easier way to do it. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Debiting what? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Set up a separate 6 account. You set up -- 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't know if I'd -- 8 and I -- don't get me wrong, Jonathan. I definitely trust 9 all my guys, but I don't know if I would personally like the 10 idea of a debit card, to where it's automatically debited. 11 I want -- because I do scrutinize my people's expenditures 12 on those cards. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it's the same thing, 14 though. As soon as you give them a county credit card, the 15 County's liable for that expenditure, same as with a debit 16 card. We got to pay that bill, and then if we have to 17 take -- either way, we have to pay it, and we have recourse, 18 maybe, against the employee, but I don't see any difference 19 between a county credit card and a county debit card. And 20 the debit card is something that I think we have a lot more 21 control over, 'cause if there's no money in the account, 22 then they don't get it. I think the local banks can 23 probably do that. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: As long as it can be 25 accepted and is the type that would be accepted, you know, 3-24-03 70 1 throughout the United States. 'Cause I never know where my 2 people are going to end up, and we have to be able to have 3 it. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Because the Visa's, I 5 mean, a lot of -- a lot of, you know, college students get 6 debit cards, and I would say they're used just like a credit 7 card. You don't know the difference, except that if there's 8 no money in the bank, it's denied. And that's something 9 that I think we have a lot more control over, and it gets us 10 out of the problem that we -- you know, with American 11 Express, and you're, you know, relying on the credit, you 12 know, of an individual, which some of them have a difficult 13 time qualifying for that, possibly. I don't -- it may just 14 be something to look at. I don't see that it would be that 15 hard to set up through Tommy's office an account that -- 16 that if you or he or a combination can have very strict 17 limits to how much money is in that account, so you don't 18 have to worry about -- you know, you certainly don't want to 19 give someone a debit card with a $10 million account. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Just give to it me, 21 please. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, you know, we could 23 put, you know, $2,500 in it or something like that. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You know, and whatever 25 will work, I'm open to anything that we can actually make 3-24-03 71 1 work. I'm just really having a hard time making it work the 2 way it is, because -- such as when the man was arrested in 3 California, he got arrested at 2 o'clock in the morning, and 4 I had people on a plane, you know, within just a few hours 5 going to California, and we had to make all those 6 reservations and that. So, of course, it's -- you know, 7 when my wife sees that I was supposedly here somewhere, and 8 yet my credit card was going to California, y'all may not 9 have to worry about a Sheriff. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I agree, Commissioner 11 Baldwin, we do not expect or want any County employee to 12 have to use their personal funds for doing County business. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Rusty, I think you 14 need to go out and find a plan, come back and let us approve 15 it, and let's go. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: As long as I have the 17 authority to look at that and find one, that's what I was 18 wanting. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: In the meantime, you 20 know, if you run short of cash, you know, the County 21 Surveyor is always lending money. (Laughter.) One of the 22 highest vote-getters in Kerr County. He's flush, man. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I will find one quickly, 24 because otherwise I'm probably going to be six foot under if 25 my wife keeps getting credit card bills. 3-24-03 72 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I can understand that, 2 too. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: I think the bottom line is, we 4 want to help you solve your problem. We just all got to 5 find out what the solution is. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And that's -- 7 JUDGE TINLEY: If you'll find a solution, 8 we'll sign on. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I appreciate that. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: I suspect the County Surveyor 11 will sign on, too. Keeps him from being a local bank. Next 12 item, 2.7, consider final plat signature block requirement 13 of condominium plat of Stablewood Springs Ranch. 14 Mr. Johnston. 15 MR. JOHNSTON: The plat attached is the one 16 submitted for the final plat for Stablewood Springs Ranch. 17 It doesn't name any -- any signature blocks, and it's 18 apparently a misunderstanding. I had assumed that we were 19 having it the same as we do, you know, on regular plats. 20 They understood it to mean that they were doing it as a 21 condominium plat without signatures, and I just wanted to 22 straighten it out before we come to the final plat, probably 23 next time. David Jackson probably has more information 24 about what -- what he thinks it should be. I just question 25 whether, you know, out of -- you know, as the -- as a court, 3-24-03 73 1 it's all the entities that have approved it. You know, 2 U.G.R.A., the O.S.S.F., 911 and all the other entities that 3 usually sign off on a plat. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, the -- this plat 5 does not have a signature block on it, and -- and because -- 6 they say it's because that is a condominium plat, not a 7 subdivision plat? 8 MR. JOHNSTON: Correct. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: A regular subdivision 10 plat. And so you want to know, does a condominium plat 11 require sign-off blocks? 12 MR. JOHNSTON: I thought we discussed -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're the expert. 14 MR. JOHNSTON: I thought we discussed it 15 meets the requirements of the Subdivision Rules, except for 16 a couple items that didn't apply to condominiums. Maybe I 17 misunderstood that. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I think the -- we 19 want to file -- and I don't know -- I'm thinking through it 20 as I'm -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can I make a comment 22 while you're thinking? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. Go ahead, make a 24 comment. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If I were the sole 3-24-03 74 1 decision maker in this thing, I would require a signature 2 block to make sure everybody's in the game; that we're 3 complying with all the rules and regulations across the 4 county, and I will stand by that until the Attorney General 5 comes and hauls me off. That's just the way -- way it 6 should be. Now, if there's -- and that's what I mean. If 7 there is a -- if the state law says condominiums are exempt 8 from that, you know, if I was still here by myself, I would 9 require it. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let me make sure I 11 understand what we're talking about here. I -- I assumed 12 we're talking about some procedural matter, but apparently 13 not. In Part 6 of our Subdivision Rules, there are some 14 eight or more certifications that are required. 15 MR. JOHNSTON: That's what we're talking 16 about. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's what we're 18 talking about, okay. And now we're -- is the question 19 because this is a so-called condominium, that certifications 20 are not required? Is that the reason? 21 MR. JOHNSTON: That's what the owner's 22 contending, yes. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No, they're 24 required. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the -- the -- I 3-24-03 75 1 think they should be required, and I think the -- you know, 2 the reason is -- and David Jackson can probably explain this 3 better. It's -- condominiums don't fit the -- I guess the 4 rules for a subdivision plat exactly. I mean, it's a 5 different animal. You know, I think -- you know, I think 6 I've said it before, that to me it still triggers platting, 7 so it needs to be signed off so we can get it filed. 8 Because I think it's a -- you know, I have a -- probably a 9 broader reading of our Subdivision Rules and state law, and 10 I think it still triggers the platting when you do a 11 subdivision. I think you need to do both. And my 12 recollection is that we agreed to -- to use this as the 13 plat, but I think that we do need the signature on it. But 14 I think just the same document, really, just with the, you 15 know, certifications so it can be filed in the county 16 records. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes. And it's more 18 than just the signature. It's -- we need to know that that 19 work's been done. We need to know that the hydrology 20 report's been done and that this alteration of this terrain 21 is not causing damage to its neighbors. And I -- I think 22 there is reason to -- to make sure that we get a good 23 hydrology report, for example, as well as the other seven or 24 eight things that are required. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me weigh in here, if I 3-24-03 76 1 might. I think the difficulty arises because, under the 2 condominium law in the state of Texas, there's a required 3 mandatory document there that must be filed, to which 4 reference is made when those properties -- condominium 5 properties are conveyed. Is that not correct, David? 6 MR. JACKSON: Yes. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: And that's a totally separate 8 statute. On the other hand, we've got a -- a subdivision -- 9 a set of subdivision rules that require the issue of roads, 10 drainage, water availability, addressing, street name, 11 various and sundry things of that nature, to be addressed 12 and signed off on by various entities in order that -- in 13 order that that plat receive final approval to go on record 14 as part of the plat records here in Kerr County. Now, the 15 document that's being proffered here, is this your 16 condominium document? 17 MR. JACKSON: Yes. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Were you intending to submit 19 another plat document with reference to roads, drainage, all 20 of these various and sundry other issues that the 21 Subdivision Rules require? Or are you wanting to do all of 22 it in one document, Mr. Jackson? 23 MR. JACKSON: My understanding of where we 24 were was that this particular map would be attached to the 25 condominium and would serve to create the legally identified 3-24-03 77 1 piece of property that's conveyed in the deed; that the 2 other issues of compliance, which I think we've done all of 3 that, would be as a matter of submitting each of those items 4 for the approval, first by Franklin and then by the Court. 5 We've given him the water availability. We've provided him 6 the changes in the map that we needed to provide. We 7 provided him with the drainage study. We provided him a 8 dedication document, all of which is copied to the County 9 Attorney since January or February, and so I think where we 10 are in our mind was that we're done. And it perhaps is a 11 procedural issue. You remember, we began our discussion 12 with the notion of whether or not condominiums are regulated 13 at all under the rules. We said that we will try to comply 14 as much as we can with the fundamental issues of a 15 subdivision, but it's always been my position, I didn't want 16 to record a subdivision plat, because these are not lots 17 under a subdivision plat. So, if I'm to -- if we put 18 signatures on it and if we record it as a plat, there will 19 be a confusion as to whether or not I'm conveying based upon 20 the plat or whether I'm conveying based upon the condominium 21 document, and I would prefer to be under the condominium 22 document. If you look at all the other condominiums, both 23 in the city and in the county, nobody's ever recorded a 24 subdivision plat for each individual unit. And there -- I 25 mean -- 3-24-03 78 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me -- 2 MR. JACKSON: -- there must be 20 of them. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Excuse me. I'm sorry. 4 MR. JACKSON: I was finished. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me pitch something out 6 here. And I -- I appreciate your concern, and what we've 7 got here is a much larger piece of property, and there's 8 going to be smaller pieces of improvements constructed on 9 smaller portions, excuse me, of this property that will be 10 conveyed pursuant to your condominium declaration. 11 MR. JACKSON: Mm-hmm. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: But the sense I'm getting from 13 the Court is, as to all these other issues, there's a desire 14 that the -- that the Subdivision Rules be complied with. 15 Would it be possible to handle it as a plat under the 16 Subdivision Rules, but put a disclaimer on there that this 17 is not a plat to be utilized in connection with conveyance 18 of the property for reference purposes -- for that purpose, 19 but rather to comply with the Subdivision Rules? And if you 20 want to enumerate them, that's fine, or just refer to a 21 section, and indicate that conveyances of the property will 22 be pursuant to the other document. 23 MR. JACKSON: Let me check. Charles, can we 24 do that? 25 MR. DOMINGUES: Oh, yes. 3-24-03 79 1 MR. JACKSON: I think we can do that. And I 2 think there is some confusion there. I'm worried about it, 3 Judge, but I'll go with that. I mean, it's not -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I can understand your concern. 5 MR. JACKSON: But the disclaimer -- 6 JUDGE TINLEY: You're not referring here, 7 you're referring here, but here's something else of record. 8 MR. JACKSON: If the Court otherwise approves 9 it and the disclaimer is all we need subject to getting that 10 done, we're ready to go. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, as I understand it, 12 we'll have a -- you're going to take this document, add 13 signature blocks, and put a disclaimer on there? 14 MR. JACKSON: I'll be happy to do that. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And bring it back for 16 approval. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And what does the 18 disclaimer say, again? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Basically, that because it is 20 a condominium regime, that the conveyance of the property 21 will be pursuant to that document, which will be -- is or 22 will be filed separately. This document is filed to comply 23 with those portions of the Subdivision Rules -- you may just 24 want to refer to a section or refer to roads, drainage, 25 whatever, and that conveyance of the condominium interest 3-24-03 80 1 will not be pursuant to this document. 2 MR. JACKSON: Well, and to pick up on that, 3 Judge, I think what I'd do is go ahead and record the 4 condominium document so I've got a volume and page or a file 5 number. Then I'll put it on the plat. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 7 MR. JACKSON: But that's great. I'm good to 8 go with that. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Actually refer to the 10 conveyance; it will be made in accordance with the 11 condominium declaration filed such-and such. Okay. 12 MR. JACKSON: Are we ready, then, to vote on 13 it? Do we really have to come back? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Better convince the 15 guy on the other end of the table. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: I think the issue now is, 17 where are we on the hydrology? I know we've got at least 18 two other people that have -- that have requested to be 19 heard on this issue, and I want to give them the 20 opportunity. I don't know where we are on the hydrology 21 issue. I know that one's outstanding. 22 MR. JOHNSTON: We have the report and we're 23 going over it, and by next meeting we should have it totally 24 digested and be able to recommend -- make a recommendation 25 on it. 3-24-03 81 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So, you've not made 2 your total review and -- 3 MR. JOHNSTON: That's why it wasn't on today. 4 I didn't have it totally finished by the time -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: We're only talking about the 6 signature block here. 7 MR. JOHNSTON: Right. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Is the issue before us today. 9 MR. JOHNSTON: Right. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On whether it needs to be 11 included, then, the answer is yes, with the disclaimer. 12 But, you know, the broader question -- you know, at some 13 point, I think we need to get it resolved -- is whether a 14 condominium falls under the jurisdiction of our Subdivision 15 Rules. And, as I read it, it does. I mean, it's -- it's 16 dividing the tract, you know. 17 MR. JACKSON: My position on that, 18 Commissioner, is that it could be, if you do your rules 19 correctly. And nobody else has ever complied. All the 20 other condominiums in this county haven't done it, because 21 it's not in there. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And -- you know, and I 23 agree, but I think it's something that, you know -- 24 MR. JACKSON: I'd urge you -- we're already 25 into this, so that's not -- we're not going to quarrel, but 3-24-03 82 1 if you wanted my observation, as somebody who does a lot of 2 real estate work in a lot of different areas, you need to 3 have a section that articulates how it is you come to 4 regulate the condominium in light of the condominium 5 statute. I think I fully concede, it's possible that you 6 can do that. It's just, it's not in there right now. 7 MR. JOHNSTON: Seems like in the condominium 8 statute itself, there's a section in there that says this is 9 a form of -- form of ownership; however, it doesn't exempt 10 it from a bunch of things. Subdivision rules are one of 11 them. 12 MR. JACKSON: Absolutely correct. So it 13 gives you the opportunity to draft a regulation that says, 14 if you're a condominium, here's how we want you to do it. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 16 MR. JACKSON: And we already know the other 17 people that have done this have said, well, it's not in 18 there, so I don't have to do it. And they haven't. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Were those within the 20 corporate limits of the city of Kerrville? 21 MR. JACKSON: Both. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, thank you. 23 MR. JACKSON: Sure. Well, only -- I'd add, I 24 respect your position. I understand the signature will 25 resolve that. These ladies are here to address it. If 3-24-03 83 1 there were a way in which you could approve it conditioned 2 upon whatever's outstanding, and apparently it's only the -- 3 your reviewing the plan -- I mean, I don't -- I'm going to 4 guess that the Court doesn't want to -- as long as Franklin 5 signs off on it, to come back and go through the details of 6 the plan. And I -- I'm just trying to get as much done as I 7 possibly can today. And with -- with all due respect, if we 8 could get as far as perhaps approving this subject to the 9 signatures, subject to the efforts -- we've got letter of 10 credit, we've already got that subject to sign off on the 11 drainage, then we'd be good to go. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The verbiage in the 13 agenda -- 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm having some problems with 15 the -- with the agenda item as stated, Mr. Jackson, in that 16 it addresses signature block requirement only. And I -- I 17 appreciate your concern and your frustration at this point, 18 and -- and I sympathize with you, but -- 19 MR. JACKSON: Okay. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: -- at this point, I don't know 21 that we need a -- a formal motion on this. I think Franklin 22 understands what -- 23 MR. JACKSON: All right. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: -- the Court is -- I don't 25 think there's any misunderstanding what the Court's position 3-24-03 84 1 is. 2 MR. JACKSON: Good. Well, I appreciate the 3 clarification. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Thank you very much for 5 your time. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I want to go 7 back to Commissioners Letz' comments. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: At some point, we have 10 to -- we have to get down to the bottom line of this thing 11 at some point in our lives. What is the vehicle or the tool 12 that do you that? Do you -- is the County Attorney to make 13 that decision? Or do you -- is Commissioner Letz going to 14 sit down, write a whole brand-new paragraph to incorporate 15 into the subdivision regs? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That's what I thought he'd do. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I like that idea. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And also, actually, 20 there's a couple of other areas we need to make some 21 changes; one in the area of commercial developments as well, 22 to clarify those a little bit more. And we'll probably do 23 that -- 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, are you going to 25 write in there, though, that the developer is required to 3-24-03 85 1 plat it, so it will be -- can you legally do that? That's 2 my -- really my question. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, as I read it, it 4 is -- and based on what David Jackson and whoever the other 5 person was that we just mentioned, you know, there is a 6 vehicle or way to get, you know, clearly, condominiums under 7 our subdivision rules. We just need to add some language to 8 do that. I think, you know, it's just a matter of adding, 9 really, a paragraph and proceed. I think we need -- I think 10 it needs to be clarified, both there and, like I said, and 11 also commercial developments. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Frost? I'm sorry. 13 Ms. Frost? Ms. Hart? 14 MS. FROST: Ms. Frost and Ms. Fox. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Fox, excuse me. I used both 16 of your names. In light of the limited -- what we're 17 addressing today, being relative to addressing the signature 18 block requirement, do either one of you wish to be heard on 19 this issue before we move on? 20 MS. FOX: Yes. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Please come 22 forward, Ms. Fox. 23 MS. FOX: Yes. My name is Catherine Fox. 24 Thank you for hearing me. I had a concern, and that's why I 25 was here today. I felt as though this might be a rush 3-24-03 86 1 job -- pardon my laymen's terms -- but to go ahead and push 2 this through, and I just wanted to be here today to make 3 sure that didn't happen. And, as I understand it, correct 4 me if I'm wrong, but I understand it to mean that you will 5 not be approving anything today, subject to blah, blah, 6 blah, as Mr. Jackson requested. Is that correct? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: The only action that we've 8 taken today is to give the County Engineer and the 9 developer's attorney guidance that it's the feeling of the 10 Court that the signature blocks with respect to the various 11 issues of 911, the County Engineer, and others, as required 12 by the Subdivision Rules, will be required on this 13 subdivision plat. But, beyond that, no action is being 14 taken on this plat. 15 MS. FOX: Okay, thank you. And then I also 16 wanted to express, as Mr. Jackson did and Commissioner 17 Baldwin, that the Court, for future reference, get more 18 specific with this, because I believe that you will be 19 seeing a lot more of this in the future as more and more 20 developers get legal representation to come in here and try 21 to use this approach to not plat. And that concerns me 22 greatly, because most of this type of particular development 23 will be uphill, because that's where the beautiful views 24 are, and those of us that live below need to be protected as 25 much as possible. Thank you very much. 3-24-03 87 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you very much, Ms. Fox. 2 Ms. Frost? Do you wish to be heard? 3 MS. FROST: Yes. I just want -- thank you. 4 I'm Mary Hart Frost; I live in Bumble Bee Hills. I just 5 want to thank you for limiting today the discussion to the 6 signature block requirement. That was the right thing to 7 do, and thank you very much for that. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Is there anybody 9 else that -- notwithstanding the fact that wasn't signed up 10 for this, or that would like to be heard? Okay. We'll move 11 on to Item 2.8, consider the final revision of plat, to plat 12 Lots 43 and 44A of Cypress Springs Estates, Phase I. 13 MR. JOHNSTON: Last meeting, I was called 14 away; I was a witness in a court cause, and Truby was here. 15 And I believe she said that this was on, but the mylar was 16 sent to the owner to be signed, and it was lost in the mail 17 somewhere, so they had to redo the mylar and have it signed. 18 So, this is the same one. It's just the signed document, 19 ready for the Judge's signature. 20 MS. SOVIL: We had the public hearing last 21 time. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Hmm? 23 MS. SOVIL: Public hearing last time. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Had a public hearing, but we 25 did not have a formal court action, because the mylar wasn't 3-24-03 88 1 here. 2 MS. SOVIL: That's correct. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So, the matter is now 4 before us formally for approval, or not, of the final 5 revision of plat. 6 MR. JOHNSTON: I think it's actually a lot 7 combination, so it's a simple one to approve. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Anybody got any questions? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can you roll it out so we 10 can -- 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: This is just a case 12 of turning two smaller ones into one big one. 13 MR. JOHNSTON: That's it. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: This one. The next 15 one is the same thing. I think, as a matter of policy, 16 we -- we don't object to that sort of thing, and we probably 17 encourage it. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that a motion? 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I make a motion to 20 approve it. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion was made and seconded 23 that the Court approve the final revision of plat for Lots 24 43 and 44A of Cypress Springs Estates, Phase I. Is there 25 any further discussion? All in favor, signify by raising 3-24-03 89 1 your right hand. 2 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 4 (No response.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Court will 6 next call for consideration the consider the preliminary 7 revision of plat of Tracts Number 15 and 16, Y.O. Ranchlands 8 in Precinct 4. 9 MR. JOHNSTON: This one is the other way 10 around; there's a tract of 124 acres that's being divided 11 into two lots. And the third lot involved, 16, it actually 12 moved the right of -- the actual boundary of that lot over a 13 few feet. 14 AUDIENCE: Five acres. 15 MR. JOHNSTON: Five acres. Just to gain 16 access easier from the -- from the road. That involves 17 three lots. This one will require a public hearing and a 18 notification, 'cause it is dividing. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: O.J., could you turn 20 that thermostat down or up or whatever so the A.C. goes off? 21 (Discussion off the record.) 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: This is on here 23 simply to approve the public hearing? 24 MR. JOHNSTON: Yeah, this is an approval of 25 preliminary plat and set a date for public hearing. 3-24-03 90 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I move that we 2 approve the preliminary plat and set a date. What do we 3 need, 30 days? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thirty days. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So it will be the 6 second Commissioners Court meeting in April. 7 MS. HAMILTON: April 28. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: April 28. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: At what time? 10:00? 10:15? 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: 10:00. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: 10 a.m.? Motion has been made 13 and seconded that the Court approve the preliminary plat of 14 Tracts 15 and 16 of the Y.O. Ranchlands, and set a public 15 hearing thereon for April the 28th at 10 a.m. 16 MR. JOHNSTON: This one requires notification 17 by mail, so they need to submit the list or whatever of the 18 surrounding owners of that portion of it to the clerk as 19 soon as -- 30 days, right? As soon as possible. 20 MS. PIEPER: As soon as possible. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further discussion? All 22 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 3-24-03 91 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. 2 (Discussion off the record.) 3 MR. JOHNSTON: That subdivision or a part of 4 that -- identifiable part of that subdivision. I don't know 5 if there's phases to that or sections, tracts. 6 AUDIENCE: There was phases, I think, wasn't 7 there? 8 MR. DOMINGUES: I think there's a couple 9 phases, but there's a -- there's, I think, eight other pages 10 to the subdivision plat. 11 MR. JOHNSTON: Smallest identifiable part of 12 the plat. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, are they 14 discussing Commissioners Court business? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm not sure what's going on 16 here. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Borrowing money from 18 each other? 19 MR. JOHNSTON: Trying to determine what 20 they're going to submit as names for notification. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll move on to 2.10, 22 consider a variance of Kerr County Subdivision Rules and 23 Regulations for placing a water line in Cypress Springs, 24 Phase II. 25 MR. JOHNSTON: On this one, the developer, 3-24-03 92 1 Dale Crenwelge, called me requesting a variance after the 2 ditch had actually been dug, and it was actually a part of 3 the roadbed instead of being in the 0 to 4 foot part of the 4 right-of-way, and that's away from the road. And I went out 5 and looked at it and took some pictures in there for you to 6 look at. The reason we have the rule, 0 to 4 feet to keep 7 it away from the roadbed, is that the very last picture in 8 your document shows an old road that has it in there, and 9 every time they have a -- have a water tap or a leak, they 10 have to dig up the road and put a patch. And the patch, 11 obviously, is not as good as the original pavement, and it 12 always causes maintenance problems, especially if there's a 13 big water leak. You know, big maintenance problem, so 14 that's why we discourage that. A lot of people ask that, 15 but we routinely try to get them not to do it. We usually 16 give variances for terrain. I looked at the area out there, 17 and it looks like they could have dug it on the side. Looks 18 like it's just easier to dig it down the middle of the road. 19 If it was a county road, I'd vigorously object. This is a 20 private road, but should be the same standards on it. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The water line ditch 22 is actually out in the road? You know, I can't necessarily 23 tell that by these photographs. Personally, I can't. 24 MR. JOHNSTON: It will be part of the road, 25 in the road. And just on that section, not the whole 3-24-03 93 1 subdivision. Just on that hill right there. The rest of 2 them are all off on the side. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: In the 4-foot area? 4 MR. JOHNSTON: Right. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I took a look at 6 this also, and I -- Franklin, you'll know -- I mean, I'm not 7 sure I got my facts right, but the water line was not 8 planned to be in the road bed. When they got to digging it, 9 they encountered some sort of problems there in getting 10 their equipment where they needed. Maybe the terrain was 11 too rugged off the side of it or something, and that seemed 12 to be -- seemed to be the -- the possible viable solution. 13 And the part of it that's in the roadway is only 100 feet or 14 something like that. It -- 15 MR. JOHNSTON: Well, it's not -- I'd say it's 16 closer to 100 yards, probably, or more up the hill. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Are you talking about in the 18 example at Japonica, or are you talking about -- 19 MR. JOHNSTON: No, actually talking about the 20 actual one, the Cypress Springs. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And I agree with 22 Franklin. If this was a -- a County-maintained road, we 23 sure wouldn't want this -- it lends itself to this kind of 24 damage over time. Considering that it's already there 25 and -- and it's a road that they're going to be maintaining, 3-24-03 94 1 at least for the current, I'm willing to go along with a 2 waiver on it. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, let me throw a 4 little wrinkle in it just for fun here, something to talk 5 about through lunch. Instead of coming -- once they saw 6 this problem happening, instead of coming to the Court or 7 coming to the County Engineer or whatever to get permission 8 to break the rules, they go ahead and break them and then 9 come along and ask us to say it's okay. 10 MR. ERLUND: It's not completed yet. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm looking at the 12 photographs here. 13 MR. JOHNSTON: The ditch. Water line's not 14 in and everything; it's just the ditch is done. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand that. 16 MR. JOHNSTON: Is that what you meant? 17 MR. ERLUND: Yeah, the water line is in 18 there, but it's not completed. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I hear what you're 20 saying, Commissioner, and as a general rule, I think that's 21 exactly right. You shouldn't -- you shouldn't learn that 22 you can break a rule and then come get it covered later. In 23 their defense, they did call. They did run into a problem; 24 they did call the County Engineer and -- and their County 25 Commissioner and talked about it. So, it's not like they 3-24-03 95 1 just went ahead and did it. It's, "Let's take a chance that 2 we can go in there and get a waiver." 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What was the problem 4 again? Just ran into -- 5 MR. ERLUND: Problem was terrain. And we 6 still have another -- we have to put the telephone line in 7 there besides that. That -- the individual cutting that 8 ditch cut that ditch without our knowledge; really went 9 ahead and cut it, and he told us he just couldn't go 10 where -- where you wanted or where we needed to go, so he 11 moved further in towards the road. And that's how that -- 12 when we went out there and saw that that's the way it was, 13 we called -- or Dale called Franklin. And, in turn, Dale 14 also called the County Commissioner, so we didn't just go 15 ahead and keep doing it. 16 (Discussion off the record.) 17 MR. ERLUND: That line is imbedded properly. 18 It's going to be compacted. It's got a pressure test on it. 19 It's actually the -- exceeds the depth requirement that you 20 require. So -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's a private road? 22 MR. ERLUND: Yes. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm asking the 24 Commissioner down here. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes, sir, private 3-24-03 96 1 road. I've been out and looked at it, and I can see where 2 it would have been more difficult to try to get -- keep it 3 from going under the road. And, again, that's not -- not 4 always going to be a good enough reason not to do that, but 5 in this case, I think it's probably at least morally one. 6 MR. JOHNSTON: The reason we try to hold the 7 line is -- is we get these requests all the time. People -- 8 it's obviously easier -- cheaper for the utility to put them 9 down in a road rather than going off in the -- on the edge 10 where they have to clear out trees and do things, but -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It appears that, 12 actually, it's kind of still over on the edge of the road. 13 I mean, it's not like it's right out in the middle of the 14 road, though. 15 MR. JOHNSTON: It's on the edge. Right where 16 people drive. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is it not possible to 18 move the road over? I mean, it's a 60-foot right-of-way. 19 There ought to be some leeway to move it off -- move the 20 road. I mean, I don't -- 21 MR. JOHNSTON: Might be possible. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: By the pictures, I don't, 23 you know, see that the terrain is -- I mean, I see it's a 24 hill. 25 MR. JOHNSTON: Looks like they could have 3-24-03 97 1 went on the other side of the road or done some options 2 that -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You know, if it's hard to 4 modify the road a little bit through that section to get it 5 -- I haven't -- I'm looking at the picture. 6 (Discussion off the record.) 7 MR. ERLUND: It's not actually under the 8 pavement. We measured that. It's very close; it's right on 9 the edge. It's -- it's right there. It's not in -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I'm going to do 11 what the Commissioner in that precinct asked me to do. His 12 confidence. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'll move that we 14 grant them a waiver on this road as requested. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll second it. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion's been made and 17 seconded by Commissioners Nicholson and Williams, 18 respectively, that the Court grant a variance to the Kerr 19 County Subdivision Rules and Regulations for placing the 20 water line in Cypress Springs, Phase II, as indicated in the 21 photographs. This is not going to be something that they 22 can just -- I assume it's not just anywhere? 23 MR. JOHNSTON: It's not a blanket -- it's 24 just for that one area. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Just the one area as 3-24-03 98 1 indicated? Okay. Is there any further discussion? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- well, the only 3 comment I would have is that -- even a little more emphasis 4 than that; that any future ones in the subdivision need to 5 be cleared ahead of time, I think. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: If any. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If any. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. All right. All in 9 favor, signify by raising your right hand. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. We'll now 14 move on to 2.11, consider and discuss accepting the H.M.G.P. 15 grant to purchase three homes in 100-year floodplain, with 16 the FEMA/Kerr County match to be 75/25. Mr. Barron. 17 MR. BARRON: I'm here today to update us on 18 our -- our application with the Department of Emergency 19 Management. After the July flood of last year, I came in 20 before the Court; you told us that we were eligible for some 21 moneys that FEMA would make available to buy homes that are 22 in the 100-year floodplain. I was then instructed to fill 23 out the application and send it in, and there is a letter 24 that we received back which I have in your packet there, 25 saying that we have been accepted -- or our application has 3-24-03 99 1 been accepted, and we have been -- or we're eligible to 2 receive this -- this grant. It is going to cost the county 3 anywhere from $25,000 to $50,000 that we will have to come 4 up with those moneys somehow. We can do in-kind services. 5 I have to talk to the -- talk to FEMA; they've said that 6 that is acceptable. So, we could possibly get somebody from 7 the Road and Bridge Department to tear down the houses, and 8 we can bill FEMA accordingly to -- against our 25 percent 9 match. We will have to appraise the values of the homes. I 10 talked to the Kerr County Appraisal District. They don't 11 have anybody that's licensed to appraise -- appraise the 12 homes prior to the flood. There's some licensing 13 differences that they have from appraisal district to a real 14 estate transaction license, according to Mr. Coates this 15 morning. So, we would have to have somebody go out and 16 assess the costs of each house, and that would be the value 17 of the house that we would pay against. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The lady sitting here 19 on the O.S.S.F. matter from Ranchero Road is a registered 20 appraiser, Ms. Price. 21 MR. BARRON: Okay. There are -- there's a 22 bunch of them in this county that we couldn't get -- 23 basically, what I'm wanting to know, is the Court wanting to 24 go ahead with purchasing these properties? These properties 25 will belong to Kerr County. We cannot sell them. We will 3-24-03 100 1 have to tear down the houses. We'll have to pump out the 2 septic systems, crunch and fill the tanks. We'll then also 3 have to keep up the lots for the remainder of -- as long as 4 we own them, which will be forever. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where -- where are they? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pretty much in my 7 precinct. Two of them are, for sure. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, I mean -- 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Start out at Elm Pass there, 10 right there on the right where it goes up Verde Creek. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Exactly where are they? 12 I mean, are they, like, landlocked, or they're on the road? 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: They're not 14 landlocked. 15 MR. BARRON: They're right there on this 16 100-year floodplain, right here. There's arrows going 17 towards them, Jon. I think this is what -- I don't think 18 that's the one right there. I think one of them's just a 19 slab, and I think it's that house and that house. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: As you go out Center Point and 21 you start on -- 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let me see that. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Going out Elm Pass? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Just before you -- just before 25 you get to the creek, there's a road that angles off to the 3-24-03 101 1 right. It's called Riverside Drive or something to that 2 effect, and it's down there. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: On the left. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Franklin, are these 6 the only three residences in Kerr County outside of the 7 municipal city limits that are similarly situated? These 8 are the only three that -- that were damaged beyond the 9 extent that they couldn't be rebuilt and had to be 10 abandoned? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're the only ones 12 that people filed on; I can answer that question. I know 13 there's some in my precinct, and the one that I'm thinking 14 of, a neighbor bought the property -- or, you know, adjacent 15 property owner bought the tract of land, and the guy just 16 moved away. 17 MR. BARRON: Yeah. These are the only ones 18 that people wanting to move away from the 100-year 19 floodplain -- they said that, "We are willing to take money 20 for our homes so we can get out of this 100-year 21 floodplain." Some of them said, "Even though we were 22 substantially damaged, we want to rebuild here," and we had 23 to allow them to do that. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Can we -- do I 25 understand that the amount of money that we'll get from FEMA 3-24-03 102 1 will pay the total costs of purchasing these three 2 residences? 3 MR. BARRON: No, sir, it's going to be a 75 4 -- we'll have to match 25 percent of their 75 percent. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You said we could do 6 it in-kind? 7 MR. BARRON: Yes, sir, we could. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Are we going to buy these 9 people out, if we got to pay them cash and we're doing 25 10 percent of it in-kind? 11 MR. BARRON: We have to report to FEMA 12 every -- everything that we do out there, we send it in and 13 they send us money. We don't get a lump sum; we get a 14 portion of it. And we'll get it all eventually, but we have 15 to bill them as we go. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So these property 17 owners, then, have to understand that the amount of cash 18 they're going to get is limited to what FEMA will give; is 19 that correct? 20 MR. BARRON: They'll get it all, but we have 21 to bill FEMA as we incur our expenses. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we need to design 23 it, because I've dealt with FEMA a lot over the years. 24 We'll put into the project cost the cost of the house and 25 cost of the cleanup. So, you know, the two -- there's more 3-24-03 103 1 than one component. We file $100,000; out of that $100,000, 2 $75,000 is the cost that we're paying the property owner. 3 The other part is the other obligations that we have. And 4 that's the part that we can do this in-kind. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, you're 6 answering the question just a little differently. Property 7 owner's limited to what FEMA puts out in cash. That's all 8 they're going to get. 9 MR. BARRON: Not necessarily. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How are they going to 12 get the rest? 13 MR. BARRON: If it doesn't cost us 25 percent 14 of our match, then we'll have to pay them cash for those. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They get paid the 16 appraised amount. 17 MR. BARRON: We can only -- we can only 18 charge FEMA against whatever it costs us to tear down the 19 property and have it assessed, along -- and if that doesn't 20 equal our 25 percent of the match, then we have to come up 21 with funds to -- to round it to 25. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Stuart, can we apply as 23 part of our match -- does the match have to be on these 24 properties? You know, right in that area there, it's very 25 trashy still from that flood, and a lot of debris. 3-24-03 104 1 MR. BARRON: I believe it's going to have to 2 be -- I'm not 100 percent, but I would think it would have 3 to be for each property. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My other question is, the 5 other state grant that we have, I mean, been kind of 6 stringing along, does that not pay our 25 percent? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't know. I'll 8 call Grantworks and ask them. 9 MR. BARRON: There is -- 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We did that, 'cause 11 that's, I believe, how the City's buying out their property. 12 We went along for two reasons; one, in case we had any, and 13 two, if the City ran out of money, so we could help them 14 with their 25 percent match. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll find out. 16 MR. BARRON: We can apply for that grant. 17 I've talked to the individual. The Road and Bridge has 18 their -- their application in already. He said that we can 19 tack on a little bit; it will take a little bit longer for 20 Franklin to get there. 21 MR. JOHNSTON: Yeah, I have two things on 22 that supplementary grant from -- I think it's called OCER, 23 OCRA, or something like that. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: ORCA. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okra. 3-24-03 105 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okra's good. 2 MR. BARRON: It's almost lunchtime. 3 MR. JOHNSTON: The -- he sent an e-mail back 4 a couple days ago, said it only applies to projects that we 5 haven't started yet. Well, we've nearly completed 6 everything, so I'm not very optimistic we'll get any -- much 7 of any reimbursement out of that. It's been nine months, 8 and we've been working on it the whole time. And now 9 they're saying they won't pay unless we haven't started the 10 cleanup and the project yet. So, it's a catch-22, if we 11 don't get paid for that. The other item I'd like to bring 12 up is, I think I heard the term "in-kind" and Road and 13 Bridge in the same sentence. We don't have an extra $50,000 14 laying around to, you know, do extra work. We're strapped 15 right now from all the other work we've been doing. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Of course, you can't 17 go out and work on that until you own it, anyway. You 18 couldn't go out on someone else's property. 19 MR. JOHNSTON: Absolutely not. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Until we own it. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- I mean, I 22 think -- 23 MR. JOHNSTON: But I bring that to your 24 attention, 'cause that may be -- if you want us to do that, 25 that may be a line item in next year's budget or something 3-24-03 106 1 to do that, but this year we don't have the money. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think the other 3 issue comes in as to whether Road and Bridge can go into 4 house demolition as part of their authority. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean -- 7 MR. JOHNSTON: That's another issue, yeah. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the other question I 9 have, Stuart, that I have on -- you said that we'll own this 10 property forever. Can we not sell that property and put 11 a -- a restriction that no construction can be done on it, 12 and sell it to the neighbors so they can at least use it for 13 grazing? 14 MR. BARRON: No. What they told me is that 15 the reason the County is purchasing these properties is 16 because it's a 100-year flood hazard, and the County has to 17 retain ownership. They don't want anything going in or 18 being in this area. They're all in a subdivision. The 19 biggest -- the concern that I have about these three lots is 20 they're not contiguous. There's a lot of houses in between 21 them, and so if you buy this house, you still have two or 22 three houses before you get to your next lot -- to your next 23 vacant lot. And, so, we're really not -- it will help, but 24 it won't -- it won't cure the whole problem in that area by 25 any stretch. 3-24-03 107 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is it reasonable to 2 assume that the floodplain is the same for the houses that 3 are still there, and just grandfathered in? Is that a 4 reasonable assumption? 5 MR. BARRON: To assume what? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Got a vacant lot here 7 on one; come down, got a house, house, vacant. Is the 8 floodplain the same for those two or three houses that 9 remain? 10 MR. BARRON: Yes, sir. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And if another flood 12 comes along, we got the same problem over again. 13 MR. BARRON: We will have -- probably have 14 the same problem over. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: The alternative to the 16 property owner at this point is, if we don't become the 17 owner of that property, they remain the owner. They're 18 under a mandate that they cannot rebuild any improvements 19 without erecting those improvements above a certain base 20 flood level, and they're stuck. 21 MR. BARRON: Yes, sir. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. But they were the ones 23 that put the improvements there, anyway. 24 MR. BARRON: They can rebuild on those lots. 25 Anybody can rebuild on their lot. They just have to elevate 3-24-03 108 1 their structure to be above the 100-year floodplain. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Do we know if any of 3 these three property owners had flood insurance and 4 collected on it? 5 MR. BARRON: FEMA doesn't share a lot of 6 information in our governmental -- they don't tell you 7 anything, basically, so no, we're not aware of it. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, my -- my 9 question is probably, I guess, to the Judge or the County 10 Attorney back there I just saw walk in; probably missed this 11 whole conversation. But, I mean, how does this benefit the 12 taxpayers of Kerr County? I mean, what -- if Mr. and 13 Mrs. Smith can't build on the thing, we can't either. I 14 mean, what is the benefit to the taxpayers of the county by 15 us purchasing something that cannot be used? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, it can be used. 17 That's up to -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And we're going to own 19 forever and is not contiguous. I don't get it, personally. 20 But I guess what we're doing is just helping three families 21 out by expending taxpayers' funds to do that. I mean, let's 22 be real about it. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, in reality, 24 that's probably pretty accurate, but I think the intent is 25 that we're getting property and construction out of the 3-24-03 109 1 floodway, which helps all residents in the county. That's 2 the big benefit. But, as Stuart says, consider that there's 3 other homes. If we were able to buy the whole strip through 4 there, I think that's -- we truly would be helping. But I 5 think, because we're only buying three lots that are not 6 contiguous, you summed it up pretty accurately, that we're 7 helping three families get out of a bad situation, and 8 likely not substantially helping the flood situation in the 9 floodway. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Stuart, was one of 11 these properties at the corner of -- right at Verde Creek at 12 480 right there? 13 MR. BARRON: Yes, sir. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a rental 15 property. 16 MR. BARRON: Yes, sir, it is. They said that 17 property can -- will be eligible. It will not be as high on 18 the priority list as the other properties, but it will be 19 eligible for the buyout program also. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just don't 21 understand owning something that you can't use. I mean, I 22 don't get it. 23 MR. BARRON: There will be a cost associated 24 with it. Maybe -- Franklin, I think y'all own two other 25 lots outside the city limits y'all have to maintain? 3-24-03 110 1 MR. JOHNSTON: It's my understanding, from 2 way back, we own two lots in the city for some reason. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: City of Kerrville? 4 (Mr. Johnston nodded.) 5 MR. BARRON: And y'all can't do anything with 6 those lots either, 'cause they're the same type of lots, in 7 the 100-year floodplain. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We maintain them. 9 They're over there past -- 10 MR. BARRON: They got them back for taxes, 11 and then -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's the deadline 13 for the Court making a decision? 14 MR. BARRON: They have not given me a 15 deadline. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 2012. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think first thing we 18 need to find out is if O.R.C.A. will help pay for the 19 County's part, because, clearly -- I mean, that makes it a 20 little bit more palatable. I'm pretty close to Commissioner 21 Baldwin; it's hard to expend funds, and whether it's in-kind 22 or cash, it's still expending funds. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And the amount that 24 Road and Bridge or somebody estimates it would cost to do 25 that -- 3-24-03 111 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 2 MR. BARRON: I have talked to O.R.C.A. They 3 say that we are eligible to put in for -- to tie it onto 4 that grant, but it will hold Road and Bridge's grant up 5 to -- while we're doing that. 6 MR. JOHNSTON: Wait till we're all finished 7 and then say, "Oh." 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, since it's in 9 my precinct, I suggest we take another look at it, gather 10 some more information, find out about the O.R.C.A. piece, 11 in-kind, see if we can identify the costs associated with 12 cleanup and any other pieces of information that would be 13 helpful, and come back another day. Can we do that? 14 MR. BARRON: Okay. Would you like for me to 15 get the cost of the cleanup? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think so. 17 MR. BARRON: Try to find somebody that could 18 give us an appraised value of those houses? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 20 MR. BARRON: Okay. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. I gather that some of 22 these numbers that you're using -- that you were putting in 23 here, massaging the Appraisal District numbers, I guess, 24 trying to bring it to market plus the cleanup? Is that what 25 you were attempting to do, Stuart? 3-24-03 112 1 MR. BARRON: Yes, sir. And the -- they 2 instructed me to do that when I made out the application, 3 'cause you can always take less money than what you've 4 applied for, but you can very rarely get more than what 5 you've applied for. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I remember that conversation. 7 I appreciate it. Thank you. Let's move on to the next 8 item, 2.12, consider and discuss adopting the flood recovery 9 maps to be used to determine flood elevations on Cherry 10 Creek, Cypress Creek, and Verde Creek. This is a related 11 item, at least in part, because of those structures on Verde 12 Creek. But this deals also with some others in that same 13 area, I believe, don't they, Stuart? 14 MR. BARRON: Yes, sir. There's -- that was 15 on Verde Creek. We also have Cherry Creek and Cypress 16 Creek. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 18 MR. BARRON: I don't know if anybody's had an 19 opportunity to look at the maps there, but what these maps 20 are going to do -- they will not take the place of FEMA's 21 maps. These maps are the ones I have to use at this point 22 to determine flood elevation heights. If a person wants to 23 build a house, say at that last property that we were at, 24 I'd have to use a graph and scale off how many square miles 25 of drainage they have, and use a scale that says roughly how 3-24-03 113 1 many feet above the -- the stream bed flood waters will be. 2 As we can all kind of walk out on a creek in our mind and 3 say, okay, well, this creek has a -- has a bluff on one side 4 and has an opening hill on the other, or you can walk out on 5 some where they're just flat on both sides, that graph is 6 not very accurate, but it is the best information that we 7 have, until now that we have these maps. These are the 8 flood recovery maps. 9 After the -- after the 100-year flood event 10 of last year, they called me. I believe it was the -- I 11 want to say it was FEMA. There's another division of FEMA; 12 they called me and asked me, do we have any 100-year flood 13 events I thought that we needed new maps for? I said yeah, 14 if we can get free maps, we're going to apply for 15 whatever -- wherever we can get them, and they sent me the 16 application. I only applied for three areas. That was all 17 they had on one sheet; I figured that was all they would let 18 us apply for. And I went to the west side of the county -- 19 or, excuse me, the east side of the county and just picked 20 out those streams that were over there, because that was the 21 closest to the 100-year flood event that we had. The west 22 side of the county did not experience as much rainfall as 23 what they did in Center Point and Comfort and areas. And so 24 what they did is went out and shot the debris line up and 25 down the streams, and they've given me flood elevation 3-24-03 114 1 heights, and that's what these maps are for. They will not 2 replace FEMA's flood maps, but they will tell me how high to 3 let people -- or what elevation to make people build at. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let me see if I 5 understand, Stuart. If we have another big flood like 6 that -- not if. When we have another big flood, then these 7 maps will be used to determine whether or not people will be 8 allowed to rebuild and where they'll be allowed to rebuild? 9 MR. BARRON: No, sir. If we have an 10 individual that comes in to my office, regardless of a 11 flood, and they say, "I want to build on Verde Creek right 12 here. How high is the flood waters going to be?" These 13 maps don't tell me. They just have a gray area on them. 14 These maps tell me it's going to be, you know, 1,500 feet 15 above sea level. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 17 MR. BARRON: Then I can put that on their 18 application. Say you have -- 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, if you build a 20 new house, you can tell them you got to raise it up to "X" 21 level? 22 MR. BARRON: It's got to be at this elevation 23 here. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, it's not a 25 matter of whether or not those maps are -- those maps will 3-24-03 115 1 be more accurate than what you've got now? 2 MR. BARRON: Yes, sir, extremely more 3 accurate. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: For those that were at 5 the -- or attended the workshop on FEMA in Fort Worth, you 6 may recall there was a question from a gentleman in San 7 Angelo complaining about not getting maps. These are the 8 maps that he was -- that he wanted, and they're extremely 9 expensive. I mean, I just happen to know, on Cherry Creek, 10 the detail on -- it probably took those guys two weeks on 11 Cherry Creek alone to survey. And, anyway, that's what 12 these are, kind of relating back to what they were talking 13 about there. And I think it's -- you know, it's -- we were 14 fortunate that FEMA paid to get these maps done, because if 15 we were to ever get it done, we could never afford it. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Our role in all of 17 this, if I understand, we're -- Commissioners Court has 18 floodplain administration responsibility, and we have 19 delegated that to our Designated Representative. That's -- 20 MR. BARRON: Yeah. You wouldn't use that 21 title in this particular -- I'm the floodplain administrator 22 also. If would be the -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No D.R.'s here. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We're doing this 25 under the authority of the E.P.A.? 3-24-03 116 1 JUDGE TINLEY: FEMA, yeah. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move we adopt the flood 3 recovery maps on Cherry Creek, Cypress Creek, and Verde 4 Creek, as submitted. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: As per the 6 recommendation of the floodplain administrator? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll second that. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion's been made and 10 seconded by Commissioners Letz and Baldwin, respectively, 11 that we adopt the flood recovery maps as presented by and 12 recommended by the floodplain administrator showing flood 13 elevations on Cherry Creek, Cypress Creek, and Verde Creek. 14 Any further discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify 15 by raising your right hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Next item, 20 consider and discuss hiring consultants in design/build team 21 to assist with helping develop renovation and construction 22 plans for the Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center and 23 authorizing County Judge to sign same. Commissioner Letz. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, as we're moving 25 along at our -- at our not-so-rapid pace -- 3-24-03 117 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Snail's pace. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Snail's pace on the Ag 3 Barn, again, we have in the packets a summary from DRG which 4 reflects their and Huser/Adler's fees, based on what we 5 discussed last time. I think now where the Court needs to 6 go is to have a workshop to make sure that -- you know, 7 exactly where the Court is on the facilities out there, 8 which we have not done since the bond election failed. And 9 after that, if we can reach a consensus, then I think we 10 need to go to the County Attorney to see if we can still 11 proceed under the design-to-build, or whether we want to 12 proceed under design-to-build format and make a decision at 13 that point. So, really, I mean, I think we received the 14 motion we needed, but I don't see that we take any, really, 15 action at this point, other than set a workshop for the 16 Court to figure out if we can agree on a plan out there. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Jon, what -- would you 18 mind including in your workshop -- and I agree with 19 everything you said so far. Just include the County 20 Attorney in that workshop. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sure. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: To kind of guide us, 23 so we can really come out of there and -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Makes sense. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Because I think 3-24-03 118 1 there's -- I mean, you know, there's two questions I think 2 we need to answer, which is, one, can we agree? And two, 3 can we continue under the design-build thing? And, you 4 know, Mr. Gondeck has said that he thinks we can, but he's 5 not our attorney, and we need to hear that from our attorney 6 and look at the overall scope of the project after we -- if 7 we can reach some kind of consensus. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: So, you're proposing that we 9 take no formal action on 2.13 at this time, other than 10 schedule a workshop to see where we are, if there's a 11 consensus to be reached about basically what -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where we're going. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. What direction the 14 Court wants to go out there at that facility, and determine 15 the legalities on that from the County Attorney. Anybody 16 wish to offer a motion? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: At this point, Jon, 18 when did you see a workshop, possibly? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think sooner rather 20 than later. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Absolutely. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't -- you know, late 23 this week, early next week. Next week starts getting a 24 little bit -- I have two days that I know of -- one day next 25 week I will not be around, but -- I will not be here 3-24-03 119 1 Tuesday. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Thursdays are a bad day for 3 me. Monday afternoon I have -- I have juvenile hearings. 4 Tuesday morning's mental health. Thursday's morning and 5 afternoon, I have hearings. So, Wednesdays and Fridays are 6 generally my better days. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wednesday's good. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How about next Monday? 9 Monday or Wednesday. Monday's usually good for the morning. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Works for me. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or Wednesday. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wednesday the 26th? 13 That's the day after tomorrow here in Kerrville. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't think we -- 15 MS. SOVIL: We can't. Doesn't give me 72 16 hours. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, fine. We've 18 talked about breaking the law here several times this 19 morning. You don't think I'm above doing that, do you? 20 Monday -- we can't do it on Monday? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Monday, the 1st? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Monday, the 31st. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Morning? We can do it Monday 24 morning. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 9 a.m. 3-24-03 120 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that for people 2 who may want to be here? For people to present information 3 from San Antonio, for example? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Don? 5 MR. BONNER: Sir? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: You or David, as far as you 7 know, would be available for Monday morning at around 9:00? 8 MR. BONNER: I'll be. I don't know what -- 9 whether he's going to be able to. I can be here. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, you -- you've gotten 11 immersed in a lot of these things. You know generally 12 what -- what we're thinking about and so forth. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you have a copy of 14 the -- I guess the RFQ and the -- do you have a copy of that 15 design-to-build stuff? I mean, the reason -- 16 MR. BONNER: I don't have a copy of it. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't either. The box 18 has got lost at one point. 19 MR. ADLER: I've got all that. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you have all that? If 21 we can get a copy to get feedback from the County Attorney, 22 it would be helpful if he had the documents. I'm sure he'd 23 like time to review them prior to Monday. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He has to review the 25 statute -- 3-24-03 121 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- also. 3 MR. BONNER: What statute are we talking 4 about? The bid -- 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The statute that 6 permits the Court to do design-build and what's involved in 7 that. 8 MR. ADLER: In the RFQ, there were a list of 9 all the statutes, and I downloaded and printed them. 10 There's a whole bunch, as you can imagine, but I have that 11 -- at least a document that indicates those. I should think 12 you could look them up on the internet, as required. And 13 you -- you have contracts which have everything in it except 14 that document, but I could send that document to you, fax it 15 to you, whatever you need. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably be easier to fax 17 it, get in touch with the County Attorney's office. 18 MR. ADLER: Okay. 19 (Discussion off the record.) 20 MR. ADLER: You don't want the -- the RFQ for 21 your meeting? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I want the RFQ, but I 23 don't -- I want the RFQ, but I don't want the -- 24 MR. ADLER: Oh, the -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- all the legal 3-24-03 122 1 references. 2 MR. ADLER: All right. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: No, he's got those available. 4 MR. ADLER: Okay. I'll just give you the 5 RFQ, because it has them listed very clearly. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think -- Jon, I 9 appreciate you saying all that. I think we're heading in 10 the right direction, and I really believe that if we -- if 11 we can sit down at a table, the five of us men sit down at a 12 table, and if we have time to spend, that we're -- we can 13 come to some kind of conclusion. I really and truly do. We 14 -- I think we need to come prepared to lay out what -- what 15 we think is the right thing for the county and go from 16 there. And I just really believe if we spend a little 17 time -- five good men here, and I think if we spend a little 18 time, that we can come to a conclusion of what is the best 19 thing for this county to do out there, and then we can move 20 forward with these other guys. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On location here or out 22 there? Or in the Ag Extension office? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You can't have a 24 Commissioners Court meeting outside this room. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's a workshop. 3-24-03 123 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's true. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He's saying here. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It would be good. You 4 know, I think, personally, I'd like to see us get the old 5 Commissioners Court table we used to sit at down here so we 6 can, you know, be down there and be able to swing at each 7 other and that kind of thing, and -- and a little closer 8 together. So we can pass papers and -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My other -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- jokes. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Reach out and touch somebody 12 around the neck? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: By the throat. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My other comment, just 16 more for the people that are maybe coming in from out of 17 town, or maybe may not be coming in, is there -- I mean, I 18 don't see a whole lot of -- of input being requested from 19 other people, other than us just sitting around figuring 20 out -- I think we know the facility. So, I mean, anyone's 21 welcome to attend and listen, but I don't know that we're 22 going to need any -- other than County Attorney's office, 23 any -- 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- additional information 3-24-03 124 1 at this time. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. I looked 3 at -- at least I thought I heard you saying that your 4 workshop is being put together so that we can decide what we 5 want to do. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, that's it. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So I don't -- we've 8 had plenty of input, in my opinion. I'm ready to do that. 9 I'm excited about that. Monday at 9 o'clock. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything further on 2.13? 11 We'll move -- thank you, gentlemen. I appreciate you being 12 here. 13 MR. ADLER: You bet. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move forward to Item 15 2.14, consider and discuss approving resolution adopting -- 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We didn't vote to do 17 that, to have it. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The workshop? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Point of order. Commissioner 21 2 suggested maybe we need to vote on it. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move we set a workshop 23 to discuss the Ag Barn at 9 o'clock Monday morning, 24 March 31st. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 3-24-03 125 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion's been made and 2 seconded -- 3 MS. SOVIL: Hill Country Youth Exhibit 4 Center. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: -- that we have a workshop at 6 9 a.m. Monday, the 31st of March, here at the Commissioners 7 Courtroom, workshop to be for the purpose of discussing the 8 Court's desires with respect to the Hill Country Youth 9 Exhibit Center. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ms. -- our administrator 11 was trying to tell me something, and while I didn't 12 understand what she was saying, I think she was saying 13 that's not an agenda item, but I think we can call a 14 workshop. I don't think it is appropriate to vote on it, so 15 I'm going to withdraw my motion. However, I think that the 16 County Judge or we can call a workshop without having a 17 vote, where the vote is on a very specific agenda item. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: You're withdrawing your 19 motion? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm withdrawing my 21 motion. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion's been withdrawn. 23 Okay. Anybody desire to offer anything further on 2.13? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just a second. Let me 25 look at it. 2.13? That would be like 13, wouldn't it? I 3-24-03 126 1 think I probably would take an opposite view of what you 2 just said. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It could be done. I 4 could -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I mean, I can't see us 6 having a workshop without an order, and I can't see having 7 an order without an agenda item. Well, laws are made to be 8 broken. I think we ought to have a workshop, and so on -- 9 on what authority do we post this thing and all that? I 10 mean, you got to have -- to me, you got to have a court 11 order to do that. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, okay. I mean, I 13 think, you know -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Don't you think? And 15 we pass court orders all the time -- we're going to have to 16 hire trucks to haul all the court orders out of there 17 sometime that are never on the agenda. We just blow and go. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I guess. It 19 doesn't make any difference to me either way, if we have an 20 order or not. I can say that we could broadly read this and 21 say that, in an effort to get to the point of hiring a 22 consulting team or deciding whether we hire a consulting 23 team, we need a workshop. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think it's a fine 3-24-03 127 1 interpretation. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. I make a 3 motion we have a workshop next Monday. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion's been made and 6 seconded by Commissioners Letz and Baldwin, respectively, 7 that we have a workshop on Monday, the 31st of March, at 8 9 a.m. -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Will the rest of you 10 guys show up? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: -- to consider alternatives on 12 the Hill Country Youth Exhibit facility, and the question of 13 whether or not to proceed on the -- under the current 14 design-build proposal that's before us. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's correct. And I 16 might add that this is a required element under that agenda 17 item to help them with their construction plans. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. We'll adopt that 19 into the motion. Any further discussion? All those in 20 favor, signify by saying "aye." Raise your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: See? Caught you. All 23 opposed, signify by raising your right hand. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. We'll go down 3-24-03 128 1 to 2.14, consider and discuss approving resolution adopting 2 waiver of request for local match fund participation for 3 federal off-system bridge program project. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I can sum this up real 5 quick. Under the construction project under the 6 off-bridge -- off -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: System. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Off-system bridge 9 program, we're required to put a matching in that. We can 10 do in-kind services for our match, and this is what this is 11 doing. This is saying that we're going to pay our 12 25 percent in-kind, and it will be work on the road and the 13 work we've already done out there, work we'll be doing out 14 there, things of that nature, as I understand it. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: The -- the resolution requires 16 that we identify the projects, the participation -- they're 17 called equivalent match projects; that we identify the 18 projects in here. Is Road and Bridge in a position to 19 identify those in this resolution and request? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have talked with 21 Leonard about it in general; I've not talked about it on 22 specific projects. 23 MR. JOHNSTON: The actual bridge contract, 24 they only build the approach for a few hundred feet, and 25 then we have to build the road on out to tie in. Is that 3-24-03 129 1 the part you're talking about? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, what I'm looking at, 3 there's nothing identified on here as the -- as the 4 equivalent match project or projects. Would the road 5 portion that's not covered by federal off-road project -- 6 would that amount to approximately $110,000? 7 MR. JOHNSTON: Well, I don't know. I don't 8 think we put numbers to it yet. I don't think we even have 9 the survey yet, do we? We actually have that -- the 10 drawings. We can start putting, you know, dimensions on it, 11 getting estimates on it, but I don't think anyone has that 12 available yet. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, I would recommend 14 that we pull this until next meeting. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: So we can identify those 16 projects. I think we've got to identify them in here. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: The way I read it. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think bring it back 20 next time. I don't think there's anything that urgent on 21 this one. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Seems like that, in 23 the past, we have used the road leading to the actual bridge 24 as that -- I mean, you can use that as part of the in-kind 25 program. 3-24-03 130 1 MR. JOHNSTON: And the right-of-way. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And right-of-way. A lot 3 of other costs get rolled into it. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Bottom line is, they've 5 estimated our -- our portion of the cost to be at $110,000, 6 and so we need to identify equivalent match projects that 7 are at least equal to that, or they're going to ask for us 8 to haul out our checkbook. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Does Road and Bridge have 11 a copy of this letter from Mike Howard? Do you know? 12 MR. JOHNSTON: Leonard's been doing most of 13 that. I'm not aware of it; I haven't seen it. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thea, if you could 15 forward a copy out to Leonard? And I think -- and Mike 16 Howard with the highway department is -- you know, I think 17 he will clearly assist Leonard in identifying the projects 18 and what qualifies, what doesn't qualify. And then we can 19 bring it back. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. No action on 2.14. I'm 21 not aware of any matters that need to be taken up in 22 Executive Session, and no one else does either. Do we have 23 any reports under Roman numeral V to be received? Being 24 none, I assume we've got nothing further to consider, and 25 I'll declare the meeting adjourned. 3-24-03 131 1 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 12:07 p.m.) 2 - - - - - - - - - - 3 4 STATE OF TEXAS | 5 COUNTY OF KERR | 6 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 7 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 8 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 9 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 10 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 28th day of March, 11 2003. 12 13 14 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 15 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 16 Certified Shorthand Reporter 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3-24-03