1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Regular Session 10 Monday, May 12, 2003 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 DAVE NICHOLSON, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X May 12, 2003 2 PAGE 3 --- Commissioners' Comments 4 4 1.1 Presentation by Texas Arts & Crafts Educational 5 Foundation, Inc. 7 1.2 Discuss relaxing/forgiving fee for use of Youth 6 Exhibit Center to host pre-UIL Music Festival -- 1.3 Resolution to TexDOT for participation waiver for 7 Hermann Sons Bridge, authorize Judge to sign same 22 1.4 Minor correction to Vol. 7, Pg. 205, Revision of 8 Plat for Tracts 48 & 49A of Kerr Country Estates 31 1.5 Abandon, discontinue, vacate 545.16 feet at the 9 end of Dickey Road, set public hearing for same 38 1.6 Minor correction to Vol. 7, Pg 186, Revision of 10 Plat for Lots 17, 18, & 19, Y.O. Ranchlands 48 1.7 Approve amendments to U.S.D.A./N.R.C.S. Project 11 Agreements 69-744-3-550 & 69-74420-3-549, and authorize County Judge to sign 50 12 1.8 Road name changes for privately maintained roads 54 1.9 Authorize Sheriff's Department to apply for SCAAP 13 program 56 1.10 Authorize Sheriff's Office to trade four cars and 14 purchase used car for CID 73 1.11 Authorize Sheriff's Department to enter into an 15 interlocal agreement with LCRA 90 1.12 Consider appointing Brad Alford as Deputy 16 Constable for Precinct 2 94 1.13 Set date for Commissioners Court workshop to 17 review first-draft revisions to Kerr County Parks & Recreation Master Plan 101 18 19 4.1 Pay Bills 109 4.2 Budget Amendments 113 20 4.3 Late Bills 129 4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 133 21 22 5.5 Reports from Commissioners 134 23 --- Adjourned 159 24 25 3 1 On Monday, May 12, 2003, at 9:00 a.m., a regular meeting 2 of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in the 3 Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville, 4 Texas, and the following proceedings were had in open court: 5 P R O C E E D I N G S 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, ladies and 7 gentlemen. It's 9 a.m. on the 12th of May, Monday. I'll 8 call to order the meeting of the Commissioners Court. This 9 is the regular monthly meeting. I believe the honors today 10 go to Precinct 4 Commissioner. Is that correct? 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Probably is. 12 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. If there are any 14 citizens out here that wish to address the Court on any 15 matter that is not listed on the agenda, we want you to feel 16 free to come forward at this time and do so. If you want to 17 address us as it concerns a matter that's on the posted 18 agenda, we would ask that you fill out a participation 19 form -- I believe they should be on the table at the back of 20 the room -- and to complete that and get it up here. It's 21 not absolutely essential that you do that, but it helps us 22 in terms of planning, and it also helps us that we don't 23 miss you when we come to that item if you've filled out a 24 participation form. So, if you want to talk about an item 25 that is on the agenda, we would ask that you fill out that 5-12-03 4 1 participation form. If you have something you want to say 2 that's not on the agenda, feel free to come forward at this 3 time and tell us what's on your mind. We welcome it. I 4 don't see a great deal of enthusiasm out here; apparently 5 we're not ready to do that just yet. All right. We'll move 6 on to the next item as posted. Commissioner Nicholson, have 7 you got anything for us this morning? 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Week ago Saturday, 9 the Hunt Volunteer Fire Department hosted Congressman Lamar 10 Smith at a barbecue and reception, and the purpose of that 11 was to thank the congressman for all the help he gave the 12 fire department in getting grants and getting equipment from 13 the federal government, and they really have an impressive 14 fleet of trucks out there now. If y'all go out that way, 15 stop in and take a look at it. A lot of things going on 16 with the volunteer fire departments. I'm really encouraged 17 about that. I think we've got good fire protection now, but 18 with the things that are going to -- that are going on, it's 19 going to be even better in the future. That's it. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. I just -- 21 one comment. Some of us in this room was in attendance 22 yesterday, the birthday party for my good friend, Ross 23 Snodgrass; he was celebrating his 100th birthday today. But 24 the celebration was yesterday, and I was told there 25 yesterday that the night before, he had gone dancing and 5-12-03 5 1 danced with every lady in the room. So, Ross is -- I made 2 the comment, I said, "When I grow up, I want to be like 3 him." And I heard all over the room, "Me too. Me too. Me 4 too." So, anyway, one of our great citizens, Ross 5 Snodgrass, is 100 years old today, and we wish him well. 6 That's all. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a couple items 8 I want to report to the Court on, Judge, when we get down to 9 the tail end of the agenda, that I think that the Court 10 needs an update on. But to follow up on what you talked 11 about, Commissioner, in terms of volunteer fire departments, 12 with the help of R.C.& D., all of them, I think, have now 13 filed for some FEMA money and are awaiting various amounts 14 of various things, and are awaiting some word back. I think 15 R.C.& D. folks helped them get that done. That's another 16 good sign. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Later. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Only thing I'd like to 21 bring up is the Hermann Sons Bridge status report. It is 22 well under construction. Road and Bridge has been out 23 there, I guess, nonstop for about three weeks now, first 24 damming up the river, then undamming the river, putting 25 railroad cars across and building abutments. Quite a 5-12-03 6 1 structure. Both railroad cars are across the river again. 2 The abutment on the south side is there and the abutment on 3 the north side is -- is under construction right now. 4 Hopefully, sometime -- hopefully next week, I think, the 5 road will be open again from a temporary standpoint. 6 They've done a lot of work up and down there, I don't know, 7 the half a dozen times or so they've been working, and I 8 think special accolades, probably more than anyone else, 9 just because of what he's been doing with equipment, is 10 Dietert. He's been -- I wouldn't want to be where he's been 11 the past couple weeks. He's been perched in the middle of 12 the river on a temporary pile of rocks with a 50-ton crane, 13 moving things around, and not a whole lot of room one way or 14 the other to go. In fact, they had a picture of him -- I 15 think one of his guys, Joe, got him; they took a doctored-up 16 photo and showed the crane lying over in the water, showed 17 it to him, as if it had fallen off. But, anyway -- pretty 18 humorous photo. But a lot's been done out there, and 19 appreciate all the work Road and Bridge has done at Hermann 20 Sons. I know the residents out there are -- will be anxious 21 to get this bridge -- temporary bridge reopened. That's it. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. I want to remind 23 everybody that our next Commissioners Court meeting, which 24 is normally on the fourth Monday of the month, because it is 25 the Memorial Day holiday, will instead be on Tuesday; not 5-12-03 7 1 Monday, but Tuesday, the 28th, I believe it is. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 27th? 3 MS. HAMILTON: 27th. 4 MS. SOVIL: 27th. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Whatever the -- 6 whatever the Tuesday following Memorial Day is, that's when 7 we're going to be here. And we will, of course, post an 8 agenda for that, so it will be at the regular time, 9 a.m., 9 but I wanted to remind you of that. That's all I have, so 10 let's get down to business. First item is the consideration 11 and discussion of presentation from Texas Arts and Crafts 12 Educational Foundation, Incorporated. Commissioner Letz, I 13 think you put this on the agenda. And you have -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I put this on the agenda 15 just to give the Court an update as to where the Arts and 16 Crafts Foundation is in their project. They have some 17 construction I think they're anxious to get underway, and 18 under our agreement, they need to let us know and keep us 19 kind of aware of what's going on. So, I'll turn it over to 20 Bob Miller. 21 MR. MILLER: Good morning. My name is Bob 22 Miller, Executive Director of Texas Arts and Crafts 23 Educational Foundation. We have a 40-year lease agreement 24 with the County on the piece of property adjacent to Hill 25 Country Youth Exhibit Center, west, or depending how one 5-12-03 8 1 looks at the compass, towards the American Legion property. 2 There's two items in our contract which I'm -- I'm here -- 3 the reason I'm here for today. One of them is, in order to 4 alter the premises, we cannot alter the premises without 5 prior written consent of the landlord. You are the 6 landlord. We'd like to alter the premises. The second one 7 is construction of new improvements. "It is anticipated 8 that tenant will, at tenant's sole cost, construct new 9 improvements on the premises. Tenant agrees that it will 10 construct no new improvements until the tenant has presented 11 plans for said improvements to landlord, and landlord has 12 approved such construction. Landlord will not unreasonably 13 withhold approval." 14 The plans I'm going to show you today or talk 15 to you about today are really what we plan to do and need to 16 do in this fiscal year, 2003, and then also in 2004. In 17 2003, we need to construct a -- first thing to do is 18 construction of a maintenance yard, which includes fencing, 19 an 8-foot-high fence. We need to secure the perimeter of 20 the entire property. We'd like to construct a 30-by-60-foot 21 metal building for a storage building, move our two portable 22 storage buildings, which are 12-by-24 feet, to that storage 23 yard, and then we would, after the fair, install our -- what 24 is our front entrance now, our big cedar arbor whatnot, as a 25 potential back entrance to the park, since we have it and 5-12-03 9 1 it'll be ready to go. In 2004, we would like to start 2 construction of the actual facilities at the park, and I've 3 got some drawings for you this morning to -- to show you 4 those things, and it's probably easier to hand them to you 5 to discuss. And I know Commissioner Nicholson was not here 6 when we started this exercise, so let me kind of direct this 7 at him, 'cause this has not changed in overall concept very 8 much from what we started with. 9 This is where the youth -- Hill Country Youth 10 Exhibit Center is. This is where the current rodeo arena 11 is. This is where our maintenance yard would be, which 12 would be right next to the County Extension Agent's office. 13 And this is about 90 feet by about -- oh, I think 140 or 14 150 feet. We're staying off the fence line here and we're 15 staying away from the Extension Office building by about 16 25 feet. We would put a back entrance into the -- our 17 property at this point, which would be between the arena and 18 the maintenance yard at that point. We obtained an S.B.A. 19 loan after our flood at Schreiner University to build new 20 bathrooms, and we have a time frame that it's a pretty short 21 fuse from the S.B.A. We have to have this set of bathrooms 22 completed by November of this year. And this would be a 23 stand-alone bathroom facility at the far end of the 24 property. It presents some engineering problems for us, 25 since the sewerage runs this way and downstream to the pump 5-12-03 10 1 house over here, and we had Indians who lived in here, so we 2 have a hard time getting across it. Not quite sure how to 3 solve that problem at this point. 4 The large construction which we hope to start 5 in 2004 would be an office and art gallery and front 6 entrance on the Riverside Drive side of the property and a 7 covered pavilion, and those all have public restrooms 8 attached to them as part of the park facility. This has a 9 catering kitchen and covered pavilion and patio. This area 10 out here, which is the open green area, which is called 11 Exhibit Area A and B, will be terraced, and provide drainage 12 away from our tents. We do a tented fair every year, and -- 13 and what they have found is that if the ground's not 14 absolutely level, when it rains -- and it always rains in 15 May; it's the rainiest month of the year -- if the tents are 16 tilted at all, they collapse, and we have problems. Also, 17 where we are now, when it rains, the water runs through the 18 inside of the tents, washes away anything that the artists 19 have sitting on the ground. So, these are the kind of 20 things we'd like to avoid on those grounds. That's going to 21 require some pretty extensive landscaping and grading on 22 that piece of property, which we would hope to accomplish at 23 least the initial phase of that before the 2004 fair, which 24 we contemplate in our planning on holding on that property. 25 I have some detailed drawings of the other 5-12-03 11 1 facilities, and these are the plans for what we call the 2 pavilion, and this is really the public area that could be 3 used for almost anything, but it is an indoor/outdoor 4 facility. The pavilion is 4,766 square feet. It has 5 625 square feet of bathrooms attached, 1,020-square-foot 6 kitchen, and then another 1,935 square feet of porches 7 surrounding it. And this is a facility which we do not 8 contemplate being air-conditioned or heated. It would be an 9 outdoor event-type facility, suitable for receptions and 10 meetings and conferences of all kinds. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Bob, how many people 12 could you seat there for a dinner? 13 MR. MILLER: We're shooting, I think, for a 14 seated -- like, a seated dinner operation of somewhere in 15 the neighborhood of 500, I believe. They keep messing with 16 the square footage, the way they lay it out. The load for 17 the park, bathroom size and everything else, is for a 18 one-hour, 5,000-person load to be what we're designing 19 everything to fit into. The -- and almost everything in 20 there is -- is multipurpose. There's a stage at one end -- 21 a small stage at one end of the pavilion which would also 22 open onto the outside, and so you could do a presentation 23 or -- or some sort of thing on the outside. This sits 24 nestled back up into the trees at the drainage area that we 25 have going through there, so you could actually have seating 5-12-03 12 1 on the far side of the drainage area as well. These steps 2 also end up doubling as an outdoor meeting space, as does 3 the outdoor seating here on this -- this side of it. This 4 is a catering kitchen. Not a cooking kitchen, but a kitchen 5 which would just have solely heating and cooling facilities 6 in it, storage for tables and chairs, that sort of thing, 7 and then a bathroom facility. Some sort of focal point here 8 is anticipated at this point, some sort of a hard, outdoor 9 fireplace, but it's really to be a focal point for somebody 10 making a presentation or reception or something of that 11 nature. 12 Second facility is the office and art 13 gallery, and entrance into the -- into the park. This, as I 14 said, comes off of Riverside Drive. These are permanently 15 installed tickets booths. There is an entrance into the 16 office and art gallery area here with reception area, 17 receptionist workroom, office, private bathrooms, and then 18 we step into the art gallery. That actually opens onto a 19 patio also with public restrooms that open to the outside 20 onto the major park area. And, of course, storage areas, 21 which are super important for our -- what we do. We think 22 this facility gives the Arts and Crafts foundation an 23 opportunity to really expand our operations. Our nonprofit 24 charge is to promote Texas art and Texas artists, and this 25 gives us a really neat opportunity to do that on a 5-12-03 13 1 year-round basis, rather than at just a once-a-year fair. 2 We contemplate doing art exhibits that use our Texas artists 3 on an ongoing basis, which is going to be a super big 4 promotion for them, as well as for us and for Kerrville and 5 the County. 6 Today, I need ask you two things. Number 7 one, I need approval for my fencing and what I want to do in 8 my maintenance yard. The other item that's going to come 9 very quickly, which I'd like if we can today to get approval 10 on, is I'm -- I'm going to need a minimum of two water and 11 sewer taps, and I understand that you all, as -- as the 12 landlord there, need to be the ones to ask the City for that 13 under some prior agreement that you all have with the City, 14 and we will need those, I'm sure, at each end of that 15 property on the Riverside Drive side. So, sewer and water 16 both are on -- on Riverside Drive. Water is also available 17 on the Highway 27 side. There's a water line that runs 18 through the property -- runs across the property 19 approximately right here to a fire hydrant on Riverside 20 Drive at this point. That line provides water to the County 21 Extension Agent's office here. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is it -- that's a city 23 line? 24 MR. MILLER: Yeah, the meter -- well, there's 25 a meter here, and there's a meter here. I'm not sure where 5-12-03 14 1 the City loses title and where that becomes the county line. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. The fencing, at 3 the moment, is just that temporary fencing that we 4 discussed? Or is it going to be -- have you changed it? 5 MR. MILLER: The maintenance yard will be 6 permanent, hopefully. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 8 MR. MILLER: The fencing is barbed wire 9 fencing. The Riverside Drive side is really not even 10 replacing it. It is just cleaning it up and trying to get 11 it straight. The rest of it will be a 5-strand barbed wire 12 fence. Most of that will be temporary. They may leave some 13 of it long-term, but for right now, we need to secure the 14 property no matter what. The architect, of course, has 15 wonderful plans for beautiful fences and walls and stuff. 16 We'll have to wait and see what our budget does. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Bob, why don't you 19 let the audience see these drawings -- 20 MR. MILLER: Sure. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- that you presented 22 to the Court? And you might remind the Court who did the 23 architectural work for you. 24 MR. MILLER: Okay, you're right. I apologize 25 for that. The -- these plans were developed really in 5-12-03 15 1 partnership with the University of Texas School of 2 Architecture and Artisans Group, Peter Lewis being the lead 3 architect. We had what they call a design sherette. We all 4 went, "What is that?" We finally figured out what a design 5 sherette was, where we had members of the community come in, 6 talk about what their needs were at a facility like this. 7 We had folks like the Mariott X.O. folks come in, talk about 8 what's needed in a catering kitchen for a facility and what 9 sort of meeting space size fit what we were trying to build 10 here. We had a gentleman who is the gallery manager for the 11 University of Texas Art Galleries come in and discuss 12 exactly what is required in -- in an art gallery. And then 13 turned the students loose, and they came up with the basic 14 designs, and there was essentially a design competition. 15 There were two teams; they presented their ideas. They were 16 critiqued, they went back and shined them up, they came 17 back. We melded the two amended plans into one plan, and 18 then this is really the outcome of that exercise. It was a 19 really neat project, and they had some wonderful ideas, and 20 we all sat back going, "Gee, I wish I'd thought about that," 21 you know. It was -- it was really nice. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I make a motion to 23 approve the perimeter fencing and the location of the 24 maintenance yard and construction of the facilities and 25 maintenance yard. 5-12-03 16 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 2 MR. MILLER: What is the procedure to go 3 forward on the utility connections? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: A second order. We need 5 a second motion, I think. 6 MR. MILLER: Is that -- 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made by Commissioner 8 Letz, seconded by Commissioner Williams, that the Court 9 approve the perimeter fencing and the location and 10 construction and location -- and placement, I guess it is, 11 of buildings in the maintenance area. Is that correctly 12 stated? Any further discussion? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just a comment, that -- 14 to the public. When we were looking at the placement, we 15 didn't really talk about that. The main building will be 16 probably on the Highway 27 side of the -- behind the Ag 17 Extension Office. That's correct? 18 MR. MILLER: Well, there is -- there is some 19 placement problems involved there. The water line that goes 20 from the line that cuts across the property into the back of 21 that building and the telephone line essentially bisects 22 that property and creates a -- I'm not sure how we're going 23 to get around it. We may have to change the size of the 24 building. The water line and utility and the telephone 25 line -- that's an optic line -- goes right straight here. 5-12-03 17 1 The water line goes out, the optic line comes and curves 2 this way, which keeps us from -- if I put the big, metal 3 building over here, I'm in the way of the telephone line. 4 If I put it -- we originally wanted the maintenance building 5 right dead-center, run a gate here and run people in and 6 out. If I put it -- I can't put it here, because I'm over 7 both of the lines. If I put it here, I'm in conflict with 8 the telephone line. What I wanted to do was move it on this 9 side. As Mr. Letz said, when we looked at it, we -- if we 10 do that, we block the two windows from the County Extension 11 Agent's office building. The truth of the matter is, that's 12 a maintenance yard. They may get a worse view of what we 13 stack in front of that than they may with the building. I 14 mean, I don't -- I've got a problem with just where to fit 15 it at this point. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: You're about 25 feet off of 17 the building, right? 18 MR. MILLER: Yes, sir. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Your perimeter fencing on the 20 maintenance yard area itself will be about 25 feet off of -- 21 MR. MILLER: Yes, sir. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: -- off of the Ag Extension 23 building? 24 MR. MILLER: At least 20. It's either 23 or 25 25 feet. 5-12-03 18 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Do I understand that 2 this order that we're getting ready to vote on and the next 3 one, neither of these will result in any cost to the County? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct. 5 MR. MILLER: Correct. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Nothing will be any cost 7 to the County. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You all probably 9 know the answer to this, but I understand that foundation is 10 a not-for-profit corporation. 11 MR. MILLER: That is true. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What's your source 13 of revenue? 14 MR. MILLER: For what? Operations? We 15 operate the fair, and that is our major source of revenue. 16 At this time, in order to build this facility, we will go 17 out to foundations in the state of Texas who support the 18 arts and support building programs for the arts. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thank you. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further discussion? All 21 in favor of the motion presented, signify by raising your 22 right hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 5-12-03 19 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. I guess we 2 now have the sewer and water taps to consider? Is that 3 something that needs to be done at this point, Mr. Miller? 4 MR. MILLER: I think that we -- well, it 5 doesn't have to be done at this point. I think the sooner 6 it is done, it makes it easier for the architects to go 7 through with the planning, get the engineering firms in 8 place. The exact placement of it is not something that I 9 think we could detail today where it is, although I think 10 there's -- showing you where we're going to put the building 11 is -- kind of dictates that they both be at the opposite 12 ends of the property along Riverside Drive. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't know that we 14 can't approve the application of two sewer and water taps 15 for the facility. I mean, I -- whenever they need to do 16 them, they can do them, get it out of the way. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that these would 19 still qualify -- in my mind, anyway -- under the prior court 20 order and agreement we have with the City of Kerrville for 21 no charge for these taps. And those go with the -- that 22 overall property, being the Little League side and the Flat 23 Rock Park and this property were all approved by City 24 Council. And I don't believe that there was a -- a limit in 25 their court -- in their -- 5-12-03 20 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you this. 2 Is there a previous court order appointing you to negotiate 3 those issues? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I move that we 6 -- this Court appoint Jon Letz to deal with the City to -- 7 to deal with these issues. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Sewer and water taps? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Does that mean applying 12 for two as well? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Whatever you need to 14 do, Jon. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll second that. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded by 17 Commissioner Baldwin and Nicholson, respectively, that -- 18 that the Court designate Commissioner Jonathan Letz as the 19 Court's agent for negotiating and authorizing the -- the 20 placement of water and sewer tap for taps on the Arts and 21 Crafts Fair lease property, and negotiate with the City in 22 all particulars in that regard. Is that fairly stated? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's exactly right. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Any further 25 discussion on that? All in favor, signify by raising your 5-12-03 21 1 right hand. 2 (Commissioners Baldwin, Williams, and Nicholson voted in favor of the motion.) 3 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How did you vote? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I abstained. 9 MR. MILLER: By that vote, I take it that 10 means that from here on out, my discussions are with Mr. 11 Letz. Thank you. Thank you, gentlemen. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Miller. We 13 appreciate -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you, Bob. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: -- your report. The next item 16 is consideration of relaxing the fee or forgiving the fee 17 for using the Youth Exhibit Center in conjunction with other 18 facilities to host a pre-UIL music festival for the Hill 19 Country High School music program. And I believe 20 Ms. Elliott -- Ms. Sovil? 21 MS. SOVIL: Ms. Elliott called this morning 22 and is unable to come, and will put this back on the agenda 23 on the 27th. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. So, we're going to 25 pass that particular item, and we'll move on to the next 5-12-03 22 1 item. Next item is the consideration of a resolution to the 2 Texas Department of Transportation for -- of a participation 3 waiver for Hermann Sons Bridge and approval for the County 4 Judge to sign the same. Mr. Odom? 5 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. Good morning. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, sir. 7 MR. ODOM: I'm here to present to the Court a 8 resolution to the Department of Transportation for Hermann 9 Sons Bridge. It is part of the program for their off-site 10 bridge program, and they contacted us and said that if we 11 would make a resolution and commitment over the next three 12 years to participate in another type of structure, whether 13 it's a bridge or a low-water crossing or a major drainage 14 structure, and with the funds that would be equal to that on 15 the Hermann Sons, we would not have to physically come up 16 with $110,485. So, essentially, it -- my -- I'll read this 17 on the first page here. It says, whereas the usual fund 18 participation ratio for projects on such program is 19 80 percent federal, 10 percent state, and 10 percent local 20 government; and whereas the Texas Administrative Code 21 provides that under specified conditions, 10 percent local 22 government match fund participation requirement may be 23 waived with agreement by the local government to perform or 24 cause to be performed an equivalent dollar amount of 25 structural improvement work on other deficient bridges or 5-12-03 23 1 deficient mainlane, cross-drainage structures within its 2 jurisdiction, such a project for structural improvement work 3 being referred to as "equivalent-match project." 4 And that's what we're trying to do, is an 5 equivalent match project for $110,485. I've looked at that. 6 It also goes back -- on the second page here, it gives us 7 that certain conformities that we have, and out of that -- 8 there's six conformities, and 4 and 5 -- all of them apply 9 to us, but 4 and 5 say the work on the proposed 10 equivalent-match project has not begun and will not begin 11 until the local match fund participation waiver approval 12 process has been completed, and the local government will be 13 allowed three years after the contract award of the 14 participation-waived project to complete the structural 15 improvement. So, we have three budget years to do that. 16 And in June -- the following page. You can 17 see, on June the 30th of 2001, I had Hearn Engineering take 18 a look at some low-water crossings. We had talked 19 previously, budgets ago, about low water crossings and 20 bridges and off-site bridges, and there's some plans for the 21 Highway Department, over the next four to ten years, for 22 off-site bridges in various parts of the county. And what I 23 was looking at was structures that I know that we have 24 growth. We have vacant land sitting there in Commissioner 25 Baldwin's area on Town Creek, and I had Hearn take a look at 5-12-03 24 1 different things. Upper Turtle Creek has always been a 2 problem that floods, to get people in and out, to get 3 children in and out of the Ingram schools. I think part of 4 that, now, that the children sort of go to K.I.S.D., I 5 believe, now, but they worked out an agreement. That's a 6 long-term type thing I wanted to look at, as well as looking 7 at Town Creek by the Old Harper Road; that is also 8 inundated. We have a subdivision in there that's landlocked 9 when it floods until the water recedes down. So, I asked 10 Hearn to look at that, and on the following page here, it 11 says Town Creek Number 1, which is up by Old Harper Road. 12 It said that it was probable the length at this site is 13 shorter, and therefore the cost would be lower. Bridge may 14 be feasible for either of these locations. That's Site 1 15 and 2. 16 The other site is by Morris Boulevard or 17 Morris Avenue, I believe it is, if you're familiar with 18 that, right at the city limits line. And that is an odd 19 angle in there, and it's dangerous; it's narrow. And I note 20 -- noted in the past that there was some interest -- about 21 500 acres, I think, in there that was available, and was 22 talking about a mobile home park at one time, and I think 23 they came to the Court and that was discussed. But I know 24 that that -- that Holdsworth project is a feasible project 25 over the next couple of years, and that's going in, and I 5-12-03 25 1 see that area coming up. I think that the Town Creek would 2 be part of this -- should be a part of something over the 3 next three years that I look at. And if I have to spend 4 $110,500, I believe it would -- I could spend that in there. 5 I think we would do good for the people in that area. I'm 6 not particularly -- I don't think I can get them out of the 7 flood zone, but it's something to look at to widen it, make 8 it safer, bring some elevations up to get across there 9 quicker than the wait for the water, where it's at now. 10 So, I ask the Court to authorize the Judge to 11 sign this waiver that we would -- waiver of local match fund 12 participation for Town Creek. I don't know the wording; I'm 13 not that good at wording, but that's what I'm asking the 14 Judge to -- and this Court to consider, that authorization 15 to sign that for Town Creek project, Site 1 and 2, which I 16 would look at over the next -- this budget year, start to 17 put something together, start to have some numbers and look 18 at hydrology and -- and maybe we do something like the 19 bridges at Hermann Sons. We could put something in -- and 20 some of them may be culverts, but that would come over time. 21 And any of the money we spend on any of this would go toward 22 the $110,500, where we would not have to spend any funds, 23 and not -- Commissioner Letz may be more familiar with it, 24 but -- or elaborate on that a little bit, but I think it's a 25 good project. We could get some other things in the county 5-12-03 26 1 done without having to participate down there. And I think 2 it's something we ought to do. Better use of our money. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's a good idea. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do, too. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Odom, did I -- did I 6 understand you correctly, right there at the last, that we 7 can identify the Town Creek projects now as 8 participation-waived projects, but if you decide that you 9 want to do that amount of work or some portion of it on some 10 other project, that there would be flexibility to come back 11 and amend this process at any time during that three-year 12 period, as long as it otherwise qualifies? 13 MR. ODOM: I believe so. I believe it does 14 allow me that opportunity. We would have to go back to the 15 State to identify that, and as long as we are committed and 16 the Court is committed by a resolution and I start working 17 on that, I think it's all in good faith. Should we decide 18 -- I mean, there has to be flexibility in the thing. And 19 talking to Mike Coward, we would have to go get approval 20 from District 15 or Austin, but I don't think there would be 21 any problems about that. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, that's even more 23 flexibility than I had anticipated that this would allow, so 24 that's that much better. 25 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. And out of these two 5-12-03 27 1 sites, we certainly at that point would cover the $110,000. 2 It's logical, it's a viable project, and we would be in 3 there, and it gives me three years to -- to plug numbers in 4 there and complete a project. We may not be all at once, 5 but maybe one section of it, and then we'll look at the 6 other. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't think I've 8 ever seen a participation-waived project before. Seems like 9 we -- we've done four or five off-system projects in the 10 county; Indian Creek, one down in your neck of the woods. I 11 can't remember who -- oh, the High Water Bridge. Some time 12 before God comes back to get us, we're going to have that 13 thing. But that's out of the same system, but I've never 14 seen them actually waive our 10 percent, which is a good 15 thing. But I -- I thought I heard you say somewhere in here 16 that we do -- we are required to participate in some way, 17 kind of an in-kind participation. 18 MR. ODOM: Well, it would be in-kind or 19 $110,500 worth of work, whether it's detection, whether it's 20 materials. And then I would imagine we would keep the data, 21 just like we do with FEMA; that we would just use that -- 22 those hourly rates and our equipment rate hours. I mean, 23 our hourly rates are set, and I think we can show in good 24 faith that we spent $110,000. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think one of the -- and 5-12-03 28 1 I believe, to answer the first part of your question, I 2 believe it's a new program -- 3 MR. ODOM: It is. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- talking with Mike 5 Coward. But what this does, it enables us to basically get 6 a lot of in-kind credit if we do the work on that project at 7 Town Creek ourselves. 8 MR. ODOM: Ourselves. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So we get much more of a 10 bang for our buck, and it's a -- it's something basically 11 that -- where TexDOT is encouraging us to do something 12 rather than -- 'cause, I mean, obviously, that project's 13 going to be -- well, not obviously; hopefully the Hermann 14 Sons project will go forward. 15 MR. ODOM: Hopefully it will go forward. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And this is a way for 17 TexDOT to make us do another project in addition to that 18 one, I guess is their logic. But it's -- I think it's a new 19 program. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do I understand 21 correctly, Leonard, we have three -- three years in which to 22 meet this commitment for $120,000 -- $110,000? 23 MR. ODOM: Yes. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Of in-kind work? 25 MR. ODOM: That's the way the program -- 5-12-03 29 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And if you identify 2 certain projects now, and you later want to change your 3 priorities or do something different, that too is 4 permissible? 5 MR. ODOM: I believe so. I can't give you 6 100 percent that that's correct. I'm going from memory, 7 that I talked to Mike and I feel that we could. I asked 8 that question, but it's -- so much has happened in the last 9 30 days that I sort of forgot, but I believe that is 10 correct. But we would have -- it would not come from this 11 resident engineer here; it would have to come from District 12 15, at least from that source down there, if we decide to 13 identify something. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, if the Court 15 adopts this today, and it looks like it probably will 16 happen, we are, in effect, memorializing those sites that 17 you've identified? 18 MR. ODOM: That's right. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's correct? 20 MR. ODOM: That's correct. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's also 22 important -- this is nothing -- this is not new budget 23 dollars. I mean, we're committed to spend this $110,000 24 either way. 25 MR. ODOM: Whether it's -- yeah. 5-12-03 30 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I'll make a motion 2 to pass a resolution to the Texas Department of 3 Transportation for participation waiver for Hermann Sons 4 Bridge, and the location for the work obligation from the 5 County are two locations on Town Creek. 6 MR. ODOM: Good. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And the Judge sign. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And authorize the County 9 Judge to sign same. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion's been made and 12 seconded to pass a resolution in accordance with motion made 13 by Commissioner Letz, seconded by Commissioner Baldwin. Any 14 further discussion? All in favor, signify by raising your 15 right hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. 20 MR. ODOM: Thank you. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good work, Len -- 22 pardon? 23 MR. ODOM: Thank you. This is the original, 24 Judge. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Hmm? 5-12-03 31 1 MR. ODOM: That's the original. I need that 2 signed. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, I'll get to it. Next 4 item will be consideration of the minor correction to Volume 5 7, Page 205, Revision of Plat for Tracts 48 and 49A of Kerr 6 Country Estates. 7 MR. JOHNSTON: Morning. This plat, we have 8 recently approved the revision you just mentioned, Kerrville 9 Country Estates. They had a typographical error on the line 10 chart; Line L-8 should have a correction to it. I think 11 it's a correction. We used to have a method in our rules to 12 do an amended plat. I think, during revisions, that section 13 was removed. Doesn't seem like -- like it would be 14 worthwhile to have to refile the plat just for making one 15 little correction. My thinking was, with the court order, 16 the surveyor could probably go over and make a physical 17 correction on the recorded plat in the Clerk's office, 18 and -- without removing it or anything, just making a 19 correction right there. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree, and this is how 21 we've handled these in the past. We eliminated the amended 22 plat because there's no authority in the local government to 23 do amended plats. And typographical errors should just be 24 corrected by court order. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me -- how did -- 5-12-03 32 1 how did that line get in there? Just -- we just forgot to 2 erase it? 3 MR. VOELKEL: That's a good question, 4 Commissioner Baldwin. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My real question, 6 who's going to pay to do this? 7 MR. VOELKEL: You know who's paying for this 8 one. And that's an AutoCAD drawing, so that should not 9 happen in an AutoCAD drawing. I don't know how that came 10 out that way. I don't know how to answer that. It should 11 have been caught, though. That error should have been 12 caught before it was filed, and it was not. My fault. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. I've got 14 another question that's related to this issue. It's a 15 little bit -- little bit different, you know. This is the 16 one where Mr. Evans had to jump through all the City/County 17 hoops and some state funding hoops, et cetera, and just 18 totally -- total insanity. I understand he still has some 19 problems; that whatever we did last meeting is not what the 20 State wanted for him, et cetera. Could this line be a part 21 of that? 22 MR. VOELKEL: I'm assuming it is. I'm not 23 aware of any other problem. I think that they just wanted 24 that corrected before they proceed with his transaction with 25 the Texas Veterans Land Board. 5-12-03 33 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Before anybody changes 2 their mind, let me make a motion to do whatever we're 3 supposed to do. What do we do here? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Authorize a correction of 5 plat. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Wait a minute. We -- 7 MS. PIEPER: Judge, I do not feel comfortable 8 with somebody coming in and altering an original document in 9 my office. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll, we're going to give you 11 the court order authority, maybe, to do that. I understand 12 your concern, but there'll be some specifics here as to what 13 is done, if the Court approves it. And you indicated 14 there's some precedent for that, Commissioner Letz? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We've made -- I don't 16 remember which one, but we have made -- had a correction on 17 a plat previously, in the past couple years. I don't know 18 how it was handled. I don't know if it would -- whether we 19 changed it or how that was done. I know we've done a 20 correction for a typographical error. 21 MR. JOHNSTON: This probably -- error was 22 drafted, so only the person whose name seals on the drawing 23 is one who makes the correction. 24 MS. PIEPER: I've already had copies of those 25 plats go out. 5-12-03 34 1 JUDGE TINLEY: I apologize, Commissioner 2 Baldwin. I should have allowed you to finish your motion, 3 and I didn't. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That was so long ago. 5 Well, I actually wasn't making a motion, but I would think, 6 Mrs. Clerk, that -- I understand exactly what you're saying, 7 but I think that it makes it okay if there's a court order. 8 You disagree with that? 9 MS. PIEPER: I disagree with that. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How do we do these 11 things? 12 MS. PIEPER: File an amended plat. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And get -- what kind 14 of process is that? I tell you what I want to do. I want 15 to -- I want to move forward with our original motion that I 16 think you were making. Did you make a motion? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You asked me for wording 18 of a motion that you were going to make. I'm glad to make a 19 motion. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Would you second it? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll second your -- no, 22 I'll make a motion that we authorize the engineer who sealed 23 the plat to make a minor correction to the typographical 24 error for the revision of plat for Tracts 48 and 49A, Kerr 25 County -- Kerr Country Estates. 5-12-03 35 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I second that motion. 2 And I want to say to the Clerk, if there is a -- if there is 3 a -- if this is a problem, then let's bring it back and 4 correct the problem. I just don't -- I just don't think 5 that there's really a problem with it. That's a second. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded by 7 Commissioners Letz and Baldwin, respectively, that the 8 engineer who originally sealed the recorded plat in Volume 9 7, Page 205, being revision of plat for Tracts 48 and 49A of 10 Kerr Country Estates, be allowed to personally correct the 11 typographical error on line chart L-8, to read 12 "N.48°52'01"W." Any further discussion? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, I think maybe 14 to -- I mean, could that corrected plat then be refiled? 15 Could you not just refile that same plat so that it's clear 16 to anyone that there's a change, that there's -- 17 MS. PIEPER: I can do that. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that would solve 19 that problem of, you know, avoiding expense, but at the same 20 time getting every one on notice and your records correct 21 that there's -- it's a different plat. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Will that satisfy 23 your concern? 24 MS. PIEPER: That will work. We can do it 25 that way. 5-12-03 36 1 JUDGE TINLEY: You want to include that in 2 your motion? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that's her -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I really think you're probably 5 right. If she -- if she requires that it be refiled, I 6 think that's exactly right. Any further discussion on this 7 item? All in favor -- 8 MR. JOHNSTON: Instead of the term 9 "engineer," you might want to put "engineer or surveyor." 10 But I think this is a surveyor that stamped this one. 11 Correct? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He's an engineer, though. 13 MR. VOELKEL: No, I'm not. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, you're not? 15 MR. VOELKEL: No, I'm not. 16 MR. ODOM: Don is, but he's not. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: In lieu of the term "engineer" 18 who filed the plat, it will be the "surveyor" who filed the 19 plat. Is that correct, gentlemen? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Who sealed the plat? 21 Signed the plat? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Sealed and signed it. All 23 right. 24 MS. PIEPER: Normally there's a filing fee 25 due, too, with the refiles. Are they going to be waived by 5-12-03 37 1 the Court? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Somehow I knew it was going to 3 come down to a question of money. Lee, do you feel that -- 4 do you feel like somebody's got a grip on you back there? 5 MR. VOELKEL: I'll go with whatever you guys 6 decide is best. That's fine. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: What's the filing fee to 8 refile? 9 MS. PIEPER: Do you know right off? 10 MS. HAMILTON: I don't know for sure. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's big, Lee. 12 MS. PIEPER: It's big. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: As long as it doesn't 14 cost the guy more money. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Well -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If it costs Lee, Lee 18 is the highest vote-getter in Kerr County, and so that means 19 he has more money than the rest of us. 20 MR. VOELKEL: Correct. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And so if it costs him 22 something, I couldn't care less. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sock it to him. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sock it to him. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Fine. 5-12-03 38 1 JUDGE TINLEY: There's no -- no waiver in the 2 motion as presented. Any further discussion? All in favor 3 of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Next item, 8 consider abandoning, discontinuing, and vacating 545.16 feet 9 at the end of Dickey Road, setting public hearing for the 10 same. 11 MR. JOHNSTON: I'll kick this off. I think 12 there's several other people here that probably want to talk 13 to it. The subdivision involved here, I think, is called -- 14 in one of these documents -- I won't even hazard a guess how 15 you pronounce it. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Isensee Estates -- or Acres. 17 MR. JOHNSTON: Yeah, that's it. It was 18 abandoned as a subdivision; however, the road that goes into 19 the previous subdivision is deeded to Kerr County for a long 20 period of time; since back in the early 60's, I think, maybe 21 earlier than that. And the present owner -- are you the 22 owner or the owner's representative? 23 MR. EVANS: Part owner. 24 MR. JOHNSTON: Part owner? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's Mr. Evans. 5-12-03 39 1 MR. JOHNSTON: Would like to abandon that 2 road. My thinking is that perhaps if they outlined a 3 boundary at the -- at the front part of the road as a 4 turn-around, a cul-de-sac, it would abandon any 5 consideration of that, since the road kind of dead-ends into 6 their property. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They would not be 8 required to do a road. They would just provide the 9 right-of-way for a road. 10 MR. JOHNSTON: If we had the right-of-way. I 11 think we'll give you the option later if we ever wanted to 12 do it. What was your thinking on that? 13 MR. ODOM: Say again? 14 MR. JOHNSTON: Do we want them to build a 15 cul-de-sac or just provide the right-of-way for it? 16 MR. ODOM: Rather them build it than us build 17 it. 18 MR. JOHNSTON: Better them than us build it. 19 (Discussion off the record.) 20 MR. ODOM: Let me -- excuse me. When I 21 looked at this last week -- and it's one of those -- I think 22 it's 40 foot. Am I correct, Truby? 23 MS. HARDIN: Yes. 24 MR. ODOM: 40 foot, and it just goes back 25 there and ends at a house close to Johnson Creek back there. 5-12-03 40 1 And I would normally just say, well, that's the way it ends; 2 we put a gate right there. But the problem is -- is the 3 houses and the driveways there, I would suppose, and the -- 4 the indication to us was that it's just going to be a 5 single-family residence. I assume that's right? 6 MR. EVANS: That's right. 7 MR. ODOM: And the only thing is, if someone 8 comes down, they start turning around in somebody's 9 driveway, and then we get complaints. At that point, what 10 do you do? And then the taxpayers are at liberty to find a 11 solution. And I don't think that's the case as it is now; 12 there's a lot of room in there, and they can turn around or 13 go to the back. It's just nothing going on. And I would 14 feel more secure than to have a citizen complaining to the 15 Commissioner or to us down here that someone's turning 16 around in their driveway; say a big truck does. We need 17 something down there at that very end, I believe even at 40 18 foot, maybe, to go outside in that property and create a 19 radius or three-quarters of a radius in there to -- to turn. 20 I don't know whether it's necessary to -- to build it or 21 not. I don't think it's the taxpayers' responsibility to 22 build the cul-de-sac, if it's necessary, other than maybe 23 having the land deeded. That's, I guess, ultimately a 24 decision of the Court. But it just dead-ends. I just would 25 like to avoid any problems or any contentions in -- you 5-12-03 41 1 know, that may occur after we do this. But I just see 2 people having to back up and go in somebody's driveway and 3 private property and turn around. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Do we know if the 5 property owner intends to gate the abandoned road? 6 MR. ODOM: He said that he was going to gate 7 it. I guess the -- am I correct? 8 MR. EVANS: Yes, that's correct. 9 MR. ODOM: You know, and it would work right 10 now if we -- I don't know how do you that in a cul-de-sac. 11 I'd kick that around, how you aesthetically make it work 12 where it's there and it looks fine there. The problem -- 13 only problem is, if somebody backs up, they're using another 14 person's driveway, and those houses are pretty close. One's 15 not, but one is right there, and I would assume they would 16 back in, try to turn around there. And we have to put 17 ourselves in that position. What if you lived there? Right 18 now, it's just open field. My suggestion is a cul-de-sac 19 down there. Now, whether it's built -- I'm just -- if 20 there's enough room to turn around, that's super. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Only problem -- I've 22 never been out there, but from an aesthetic standpoint, I 23 mean, the fences could go to, like, a "V" and have a 24 cul-de-sac inside it. 25 MR. ODOM: Sure, offset it there. 5-12-03 42 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, you know, have a 2 cul-de-sac still by the fencing, and aesthetically make it 3 look nice. 4 MR. ODOM: I mean, it could be done. I mean, 5 it's not too much out of the way, and the radius right there 6 is a solution to -- to eliminate some problems in the 7 future. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, then, you're 9 suggesting that the cul-de-sac is a quid pro quo for 10 abandoning the road? 11 MR. ODOM: That's right, sir. Right now it 12 functions for me. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can you go a step 14 further? When you're asking them for a cul-de-sac, can you 15 get a -- one that fits our regulations, a full-blown 16 cul-de-sac? 17 MR. ODOM: I believe so. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: In case there is a 19 development there, -- 20 MR. ODOM: If there is a development. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- we're set up for 22 it. 23 MR. ODOM: I believe it's only 6 acres, so it 24 just sort of runs -- I think 5 is the minimum number on a 25 central water system, but if there was a central water 5-12-03 43 1 system, which I don't know about, you know, it could be 2 divided up into six different -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where would the gate 4 be placed that we're talking about? 5 MR. ODOM: I don't know. I -- it could 6 either be -- it depends where they wish to continue that. 7 It could be right there on that road, and offset -- 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let's find out from 9 the gentleman in the back. Where would that be? 10 MR. EVANS: Just at the start of the 11 property, off of Dickey Road where the property starts on 12 the right and left. 13 MR. ODOM: Right-hand land, he's talking 14 about. 15 MR. JOHNSTON: Could you come up and show us 16 on the plat? 17 MR. ODOM: You're saying up here? 18 MR. EVANS: Right here. 19 MR. ODOM: Right here? 20 MR. EVANS: Then I thought if a cul-de-sac 21 was needed, we could take something right around that way. 22 MR. ODOM: How are you going to get through 23 there, Doug? That's a fence right there. 24 MR. JOHNSTON: Has to be a 100-foot diameter. 25 MR. EVANS: Yeah. The only -- same problem 5-12-03 44 1 as you have there. All's you got to do -- I mean, the only 2 thing you can do is back up into that -- that little jog 3 that we'd give there. 4 MR. ODOM: That little jog is probably 8 foot 5 -- 8 foot offset from what I saw on those plans, and then 6 you've got that fence running along that man's house. 7 MR. EVANS: Right. 8 MR. ODOM: That driveway right there. That's 9 what concerns me, is having -- 10 MR. JOHNSTON: We're thinking about something 11 larger than that. Something that would actually, you know, 12 make the 100-foot diameter rule. 13 MR. EVANS: Well, I mean, look at the problem 14 we have down here. If anybody gets off that road at the 15 end, they're trespassing. Then you got to call the 16 Sheriff's Department. I mean, they're right there at the 17 houses. They all get down there and go, "Hey, look at the 18 creek." If they get out of their car and go to the creek, 19 they're trespassing. 20 MR. JOHNSTON: Of course, if you do this, you 21 could fence it off here, put your gate in here. 22 MR. ODOM: So have the radius -- have the 23 radius out here? 24 MR. JOHNSTON: You know, just have enough 25 property there for a turn-around. 5-12-03 45 1 MR. EVANS: Yeah. I think -- 2 MR. JOHNSTON: Doesn't have to be like that. 3 MR. EVANS: -- the aesthetics of that -- 4 MR. ODOM: The aesthetics is tough, but how 5 much -- where -- where are you giving 100 -- 750 square feet 6 versus what we give you in here -- what, 500 or a tenth of a 7 mile? You're asking for 40 foot there? 8 MR. EVANS: Well, all's I'm saying is the -- 9 then the County quits the maintaining of that road. 10 MR. ODOM: Well, the County might want to 11 come right back here, Doug, and stop it right there. If 12 this is all one, I question why we go back on driveways in 13 the first place. The Commissioner and I have discussed some 14 of this before. I don't know why we're always going -- they 15 have done, and we've continued to do that. Maybe it's 16 better we end it right there. 17 MR. EVANS: That's what I'm saying. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I hate to interrupt 19 this tri-part discussion, but someone want to show me where 20 the gate's going to be on this map? 21 MR. JOHNSTON: That's -- he's proposing to 22 put the gate right across there. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would have guessed 24 that. 25 MR. JOHNSTON: And we're saying we would 5-12-03 46 1 rather have a radius there for a turn-around. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you very much. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The purpose of this 4 agenda item is to set a public hearing, right? 5 MR. JOHNSTON: Yes, it is. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I think that's the real meat 7 of it. 8 MR. ODOM: And I think people within 200 feet 9 of that -- that mark has to -- you know, to come in for a 10 public hearing, whether you end it right there or not. I'm 11 just saying that I think if you have a cul-de-sac, you'll 12 eliminate some of the problems. If you don't, then I think 13 that you're going to have people, if they come down -- and I 14 don't think you have that much traffic; that I see a 15 potential problem of backing up into somebody else's private 16 driveway and turning around, particularly big trucks. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: As I see where we are, we'll 18 set the matter for public hearing today. In the meantime, 19 if y'all have some issues you want to work out to present to 20 the Court later after the public hearing on some various 21 alternatives or design schematics, we can take those up 22 after the public hearing, but we've got to have this public 23 hearing on abandoning all or any part of that roadway. 24 MR. ODOM: That's right. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: That's currently owned by Kerr 5-12-03 47 1 County. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes, sir, that's my 3 point. We can go ahead and set the public hearing, and we 4 can work on these issues between now and then, see if we 5 can't come to a resolution that will satisfy everybody. 6 But, Ms. Sovil, when's the first time -- 7 MS. SOVIL: 6/23. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: 6/23? I move that 9 we set a public hearing on June 23rd for the purposes of 10 discussing, taking action on abandoning, discontinuing, 11 vacating 545.16 feet at the end of Dickey Road. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: 10 a.m. as indicated? 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes, sir. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Any further 16 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 17 your right hand. 18 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. The matter 22 is set for public hearing June 23rd of this year at 10 a.m., 23 here in this courtroom. 24 MR. EVANS: Thank you. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Next item, consider a minor 5-12-03 48 1 correction to Volume 7, Page 186, Revision of Plat for 17, 2 18, and 19 of Y.O. Ranchlands. I think this is another 3 verse of the minor correction -- 4 MR. JOHNSTON: Exactly right. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: -- situation, is it not? 6 MR. JOHNSTON: Exactly right. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 8 MR. JOHNSTON: The terminology in the -- the 9 note right above the title on the plat refers to the 10 property -- the roads being maintained by Y.O. Ranchland 11 Owners' Association, and that is not correct; it should be 12 adjacent landowners. So, there again, we were wanting to 13 have that, you know, lined out and, you know, revised 14 verbiage written in. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To me, it's the same 16 situation. Correct it when you file it. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Is this a typo, or 18 is it a change in responsibility? 19 MR. JOHNSTON: I think it was just a 20 misunderstanding when they put it in the Y.O. Ranchlands -- 21 normally the homeowners' association maintains the roads, 22 but in this case they only maintain one road, and all the 23 other roads off of that are maintained by the landowners. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Ms. Pieper, is this 25 the same issue? Or you got any additional concerns about 5-12-03 49 1 this one? 2 MS. PIEPER: Same issue. Refile with the 3 deeds. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: How's the resolution 5 worded? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we -- I'll make a 7 motion to approve the surveyor, in this case, or -- 8 MR. JOHNSTON: It would be a surveyor, 9 Charles Domingues. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Approve allowing the 11 surveyor, Charles Domingues, to make a minor correction to 12 the recorded plat of Y.O. Ranchlands, I guess, Revision of 13 Plat for Lots 17, 18, and 19 of Y.O. Ranchlands. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion's been made and 16 seconded by Commissioners Letz and Nicholson, respectively, 17 that the Court authorize the surveyor who filed the original 18 plat in Volume 7, Page 186, Revision of Plat for 17, 18, 19 19 of Y.O. Ranchlands, personally make correction of said plat 20 so that it specifics that the future maintenance/repair of 21 the roads will be by the adjacent landowners rather than the 22 Y.O. Ranchland homeowners' association, as presently 23 indicated, and, too, that plat then be refiled with the 24 Clerk of this court. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Question. Are we 5-12-03 50 1 given to understand that -- that if there's a refiling fee, 2 that Mr. Domingues pays this time? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Who pays it doesn't make 4 any difference. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Somebody other than 6 us? 7 MS. PIEPER: Whoever brings it in. Whoever 8 brings it in, which would be Mr. Domingues. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further discussion? All 10 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Next item 15 is consideration of the approval of the Amendment Number 1 16 to two different agreements on Project Agreement projects 17 between Kerr County Commissioners Court and U.S.D.A. Natural 18 Resources Conservation Service, and authorize Judge to sign 19 those amendments. Mr. Odom? 20 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. I was -- Truby handed 21 this to me. I can see where it's confusing. If you will 22 take -- the top page is the amended part for $80,000, I 23 believe. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 88. 25 MR. ODOM: Well, I don't -- I don't know what 5-12-03 51 1 your -- mine shows that the top page is in -- there's two 2 amendments. Number 1 is for $80,000. It said, "It is 3 agreed that following-described work is to be performed at 4 an estimated cost of $80,000." On the second page, that 5 item amount is for $88,000. The estimated cost for the work 6 improvements is $75,000. So, I'm assuming what happened is 7 that we had the project down on River Road where we were 8 talking about gabions, and we have been trying to work with 9 people to get something done, and I finally decided that 10 time is -- we've been wasting a lot of time; that we're 11 going to do it with concrete. So, they asked us to sign 12 both of these. I know it seems crazy, and I don't know why 13 it should be the -- the amended part for $80,000, but I'm 14 asking the Court to go ahead and sign both, and the gabions 15 were a little bit more expensive, so they were just saying 16 go ahead and -- and modify this to $80,000, I believe. So 17 that -- that's where I think this is coming from. And why 18 they just didn't toss one out, I don't know. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, we will be 20 approving two different versions? 21 MR. ODOM: Two different versions of it. 22 And, for whatever reason, I -- for -- 23 MS. HARDIN: There's two different 24 agreements. 25 MR. ODOM: Oh, there's two different 5-12-03 52 1 agreements? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: One is -- is no cost increase. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Two different 4 numbers. 5 MR. ODOM: Okay. Well -- oh, there it is, 6 2-04 and 2-05. I'm sorry, I wasn't prepared when I came in. 7 I have to apologize to the Court. It's two separate ones. 8 This must be for the modified part on the swings, and the 9 other is the other work that we've done. That's what -- 10 that's what it has to be for, then. In other words, there 11 was 80-some-odd thousand, I think, for -- for the river -- 12 for that swing area for -- 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: C.P. River Road. 14 MR. ODOM: Right, where those kids -- just 15 down from the swings there, where it cut 20 foot deep. And 16 then the other is where -- the other project that we have. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Basically, you have already 18 performed the work, or have it underway? 19 MR. ODOM: Have it underway. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: So this would merely put us in 21 compliance with the U.S.D.A., for example, which you're 22 doing anyway. 23 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir, that's all. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I would move 25 that we approve Amendment Number 1 for Agreement 5-12-03 53 1 69-7442-3-549 and Agreement 69-7442-3-550 for the projects 2 between Kerr County Commissioners Court and the U.S.D.A. 3 N.R.C.S. and authorize County Judge to sign same. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 6 the Court to approve the two amendments and authorize County 7 Judge to sign the same. Is there any further discussion? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have a question. Just 9 a -- making sure it's not another typo. On Agreement 10 69-7442-3-550, the location says along Center Point Swing 11 between Comfort and Kerrville. Should that probably not be 12 Center Point and Kerrville? 13 MR. ODOM: It should be between Center 14 Point -- 15 MS. HARDIN: No, it's in Center Point, 16 between Comfort and Kerrville. That's correct. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Between Comfort and 18 Kerrville? 19 MR. ODOM: Well, it is. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, it is between 21 Comfort and Kerrville, but there's no road that connects -- 22 MS. HARDIN: I just printed it; I didn't type 23 it. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The road starts in Center 25 Point, though. 5-12-03 54 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's also between 2 Miami and L.A. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Between San Antonio and 4 Junction. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or 7 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 8 your right hand. 9 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Next item 13 is consider the road name changes for privately maintained 14 roads in various locations in Kerr County, in accordance 15 with 911 guidelines. Ms. Hardin. 16 MS. HARDIN: We have eight privately 17 maintained road names. Some of them are changes, and some 18 are unnamed roads. There is one typo I would like for the 19 clerk to make note of, and it's on the 1155 to MacDonald. 20 It should be M-a-c, capital D. Mr. Williams, is there a 21 space in between the -- 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's all one word. 23 MS. HARDIN: No space, okay. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just cap the D. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's not -- just a 5-12-03 55 1 question. Is that MacDonald Loop? 2 MS. HARDIN: No. It's -- it's at the end of 3 Fall Creek Road and it's a private road to Granger 4 MacDonald's place. 911 says it meets their guidelines. 5 It's in the same precinct, but it's a different geo region. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 7 MS. HARDIN: I would not suggest that it be 8 named that, but it does meet the guidelines. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: As long as the geo 10 regions are different, that's the important thing. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I move that we 12 approve the road name changes for privately maintained 13 roads, as outlined in the documents provided by Road and 14 Bridge. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion's been made and 17 seconded by Commissioners Nicholson and Baldwin, 18 respectively, that the Court approve the name changes for 19 the privately maintained roads in various locations in Kerr 20 County, as presented by Road and Bridge staff, and it being 21 in accordance with 911 guidelines. Any further discussion 22 or questions? All in favor of the motion, signify by 23 raising your right hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5-12-03 56 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Thank you 3 very much. Next item is consideration and discussion to 4 authorize the Sheriff's Office to apply for SCAAP program. 5 Is that the correct pronunciation of that? 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's as close as I can 7 get. We'll find out a little bit more in just a few 8 minutes. First off, to start out, there's three people I 9 need to introduce that will -- are actually going to present 10 this to you. First is Sylvia Foraker. As y'all may know -- 11 and if you don't, it's a good time to -- she is our 12 Assistant Jail Administrator out at the jail. Pedro Garcia 13 is the Jail Administrator that we stole back from 14 Fredericksburg. Pedro does have experience in the SCAAP 15 program. He -- they used it over in Fredericksburg. I 16 think you can see that in some of the backup to this. And 17 the next man is Scott Thompson. He is the representative of 18 Vertex, who is the one that kind of acts as administrators, 19 I guess, helping us get the -- the filing of the fees and 20 everything. And I will mainly turn this over to him and 21 Pedro to present to answer any of the questions, and let you 22 understand how it works. 23 MR. GARCIA: Good morning. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Morning. 25 MR. GARCIA: Well, I've been talking to Scott 5-12-03 57 1 for the last three or four years at different functions at 2 the jail, at the jail conferences and that on this. And 3 since the first time we talked, we've always thought it was 4 a good idea, since it meant that it was going to make the 5 County money, and it wouldn't necessarily take up too much 6 time for the -- for the employees of the County to get this. 7 It does involve giving them a percentage of -- of what is 8 totally made by the County or what is given to the County, 9 but I believe as long as we get a plus, it's always a good 10 thing. So, we've been talking to the Sheriff about this, 11 and -- and when I went over to Gillespie, they already had 12 that in place and I had a chance to work with it and work 13 with them on it. 14 We did -- when I was there, I believe it was 15 a little over $17,000 the county got, and it took me about 16 five hours of my work, and most of that was trying to figure 17 out who was going to -- who was responsible for doing it, 18 and trying and trying to get with the -- with the Sheriff 19 and them over there, see who he wanted to do it. And -- but 20 it didn't take too much of my time, and I believe the 21 Treasurer's office and Auditor's office over there also did 22 some information -- or had to provide some information. And 23 it's -- like I said, Vertex pretty much takes care of -- of 24 the major portion of the work on it. 25 Now, this program is -- it's money given to 5-12-03 58 1 the counties by the Bureau of Justice Assistance, and SCAAP 2 stands for State Criminal Alien Assistance Program, which is 3 money given to the counties for housing alien -- illegal 4 aliens. And they don't just have to be from Mexico, but 5 they can be from Canada or any other country. But there's 6 certain guidelines that they go by, and they just get a 7 listing of our information. We put it on a disk and we send 8 it over to them, and they pretty much go through it and pick 9 out what they need and give that information to the Bureau. 10 And they -- they have their way of calculating all that, and 11 they send it back. I'll go ahead and let Scott take over, 12 unless y'all have some questions for me on that. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Only question I have 14 for you is, did you learn your lesson? You came back to 15 Kerr County. You here to stay? 16 MR. GARCIA: I sure am, yes. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right, good. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Garcia? 19 MR. GARCIA: Uh-huh? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: You say you had the 21 opportunity to look at this on a firsthand basis and to 22 actually utilize it. Is Gillespie County overall pleased 23 with this program? 24 MR. GARCIA: Gillespie County was ecstatic at 25 the amount of -- the way they did this. And, in Gillespie 5-12-03 59 1 County -- I enjoyed working there while I was there. 2 (Laughter.) But the way it works is, we housed in another 3 county, including Kerr County for a while. I believe we 4 went over to Comanche County for a while. Well, the way 5 they were looking at it the first year they did it, I 6 believe the information they gave Vertex was just on the 7 inmates they had in-county, which totals no more than 15. 8 The Sheriff told me to keep it under 10. So, most of our 9 inmates were -- were sent to Comanche County, which was 10 anywhere from 20 to 30 inmates. Well, the first year that 11 this was done over there, like I said, they just calculated 12 inmates they had in-county, so they don't -- I believe it 13 was at $5,000 or something is what they got back, which is 14 still -- considering the amount of work that -- that has to 15 go into -- to giving them this information, that's still all 16 right. 17 But when it came back the next year we did 18 it, and I -- I cleared it up with -- with them, and we're 19 paying for the inmates to go over there, so why wouldn't we 20 get paid for those as well? And I went ahead and sent the 21 information for them as well, and it came up to a little 22 over -- like I said, a little over $17,000. And I believe 23 y'all have a listing of the different amounts that they've 24 got. Like I said, it was 17,5 or something like that for 25 the second year. So, yeah, I was pleased, and so were they. 5-12-03 60 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: One of the big 2 differences that Scott will talk about in this, 3 Commissioners, is that, you know, we -- we bill I.N.S. for 4 housing illegal aliens here, but the big difference is we 5 cannot bill I.N.S. as long as they have a criminal charge 6 here, because we're responsible for them with that criminal 7 charge. Once that criminal charge is taken care of, any 8 time they spend in jail after that charge is taken care of, 9 then we can bill -- or, you know, then we bill I.N.S. for 10 that amount of charge. So, normally it ends up being one 11 day or something like that, where we miss out on -- say 12 they're here on a capital murder or whatever, and they're 13 sitting here for an entire year. We don't get to bill 14 I.N.S. right now for that entire year. We only bill them 15 for after the sentence, as long as it takes us to get them 16 out. This program is what does all the billing for the 17 whole time we're housing them; it allows us to do that. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: So, even though we've got them 19 under a state charge, in our custody, if they, in fact, 20 qualify as an illegal alien under this program, their -- 21 their housing and board cost will be covered by this 22 program? 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Correct. 24 MR. GARCIA: That's correct. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The other thing is -- 5-12-03 61 1 and we'll let Scott get up and explain it all. David 2 Motley, who couldn't be here today -- I think he's at a 3 convention -- did call me yesterday afternoon. He has 4 reviewed this contract, and he said there were a couple 5 little minor tweakings that he looked at, but it wasn't 6 anything of substance, and he had no problem with approving 7 the contract. He'd just get a waiver on these minor things. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Question. If these folks were 9 not presenting this to us today, would you be filing these 10 same claims through people in your department with the 11 Department of Justice, or -- 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, we never have. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: -- or whomever? 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We never have. We don't 15 have the computer system and the capability to assure that 16 they are all illegal aliens and things like that. They have 17 to go through all the different guidelines. I don't have 18 the manpower; there's no way I could ever have the manpower 19 to be able to do that type of research. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: So, you're telling me that if 21 we go with this program, it's not going to cost you any more 22 manpower, at least of any significant consequence, that you 23 don't already have in place, and secondly, any money that we 24 derive from it is money we wouldn't be getting anyway? 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's correct. I'll 5-12-03 62 1 let Scott explain it. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 3 MR. THOMPSON: Morning, Judge, Commissioners. 4 I'm Scott Thompson with Vertex out of Dallas. And, as we've 5 been explaining, this is the -- and it was -- SCAAP is the 6 right acronym pronunciation for the State Criminal Alien 7 Assistance Program. We're presently working with 86 Texas 8 counties this year to file in this program. This is an 9 annual program, and it's a pool of money that is distributed 10 among the successful applicants. Each year, the number of 11 applicants keeps growing. It -- as the Sheriff is 12 explaining, these are state charges that you're doing 13 pretrial detention, and you're not receiving any funding for 14 them. It's not based on -- on the room and board. The feds 15 changed it three years ago. They have a formula where they 16 collect the jail personnel salaries for corrections 17 officers, and also this year, they have the transportation 18 officers' salaries. And they come up with a -- with a 19 formula there and apply it and come up to a daily cost. 20 We collect the inmate data from the jail 21 administration, and this is based on illegals that have been 22 in your jail on a felony or two misdemeanors and a minimum 23 of four days in jail; those qualify. We accumulate those 24 and we come up with a year's worth of that, and maybe 500 25 inmate days or 1,000 inmate days or something, and then 5-12-03 63 1 whatever the payroll cost for your county, that figure is 2 applied and submitted to the feds. They, likewise, use a 3 weighting factor, because, as you can well imagine, this is 4 a national program. Salaries in Los Angeles County or New 5 York state or whatever are different than they are in Texas. 6 I get down around the border, some of my South Texas 7 counties like Maverick and Zapata and so on, they're 8 different than Dallas or Tarrant or big cities. But that's 9 taken into consideration; the feds apply a formula to it. 10 Then they announce the awards. The awards are made. The 11 money is drawn down electronically by the County Treasurer 12 or Auditor. Money comes directly to the County, comes into 13 your account, and usually I get a call from the Auditor or 14 Treasurer saying, "Scott, we got our money. Send me a 15 bill." I bill you for 22 percent of the -- of the awarded 16 amount, and you retain 78 percent. So, it's a 78 percent 17 found money factor, anyway. 18 We have also taken over for a number of 19 counties in the past -- probably got a half a dozen; Denton, 20 Hays, Brazos, Webb County, where they were doing the program 21 themselves and we took over for them and increased their 22 award amount by three to five times or more. So, the fee 23 kind of becomes transparent if you can improve the payout 24 that much. But, in a nutshell, that's the way the program 25 works. I'm open to any questions or discussion, whatever 5-12-03 64 1 you had in mind. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a question. 3 MR. THOMPSON: Yes, sir? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understood the 5 Sheriff to say that the reimbursement doesn't begin until 6 after a charge is eliminated, or that you can't claim 7 reimbursement if they have a charge against them, some kind 8 of a charge? 9 MR. THOMPSON: Well, they have to be charged 10 or convicted of a state crime. In fact, this year 11 they're -- they're applying it if they have prior 12 convictions, then charges only will count. Okay. If I -- 13 if I robbed the 7-Eleven, mugged somebody and shot somebody 14 or whatever, and I'm being held in your jail to go to trial, 15 I could be there for weeks, say, before -- before I actually 16 get to trial. At that time, maybe I've got a real good 17 lawyer and I get off with 30 or 60 days in jail, and they 18 give me time off -- allowance for the time I've spent in 19 jail. Maybe I'm there a couple of weeks. At that time, 20 when I'm discharged and released, the I.N.S. would be 21 notified, or the border patrol, and they would pick me up 22 and I'm out of here. The time that I sat in your jail, 23 you're not getting paid by I.N.S. or border patrol or U.S. 24 Marshals or whoever, so that's -- that's the money we're 25 applying for. 5-12-03 65 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Regardless of the 2 disposition of the charge? 3 MR. THOMPSON: If the individual -- this year 4 they just changed the statement. Last year it was "charges 5 and/or convictions." This year they changed it to 6 "convictions." We went back and questioned that, and they 7 came back and said, "Well, it's convictions and any prior 8 convictions." That establishes them as a criminal alien. 9 So that you could have pending charges that you don't even 10 have a determination on yet, but if they have a prior 11 conviction on a felony or two misdemeanors, those charges, 12 even though they're unresolved, the time that they're in 13 jail, if it falls within the accounting period, they apply. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand the 16 contract to read as a three-year agreement? 17 MR. THOMPSON: Yes, it's a three-year 18 agreement. There's a minimum of two years in the program, 19 and the County does have the option to give 30-day notice at 20 the end of a fiscal year if you want to just cancel out, if 21 you decide it's not worth doing. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 22 -- 23 MR. THOMPSON: We haven't had that happen 24 yet. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 22 percent. 22 5-12-03 66 1 percent? 2 MR. THOMPSON: Yes, sir. I had Denton 3 County -- they were filing on their own and getting $95,000. 4 We took over for them a couple of years ago. We've gotten 5 them 235 and 270, and Weldon Lucas and his people up there 6 said, you know, we don't mind paying you 22 percent if you 7 can up our claim and we don't have to do the work. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So the claim goes 9 through your agency; is that correct? 10 MR. THOMPSON: Well, no. We prepare the data 11 and the claims, and we'll come back to your Jail 12 Administrator; probably will be Pedro. And it's actually an 13 online application that's done from the County. We're not 14 permitted to submit the claim on the County's behalf. It's 15 authorized by the C.E.O. of the jurisdiction, being your 16 County Judge, to file for this program, and they actually 17 want a County employee to submit the electronic application, 18 and likewise to do the download of the funds to your 19 account. You'll set up an ACH electronic funds transfer to 20 your bank account. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Makes sense. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: But all of that work is 23 brought to the Jail Administrator from your people, or this 24 is done by your -- by your organization; you bring it to 25 them? 5-12-03 67 1 MR. THOMPSON: Yes, sir. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: They put it online; the money 3 comes back to Kerr County? 4 MR. THOMPSON: For instance, they could go 5 online today and -- and call an 800 number in my office, and 6 I'd have somebody walk them through to do the registration, 7 which has to be done this year before the 23rd of this 8 month. We have -- they've had extensions; because of the 9 change in the criteria, they've extended the deadline for 10 the final drop-dead date, if you will, of uploading data to 11 June 20th, so we've got almost another month to upload the 12 data. So, what we will do is collect the information from 13 them, get with your Auditor, Treasurer, get the payroll 14 figures. We'll work up some numbers. If we have some 15 questions or corrections, we'll come back and get those, and 16 then we'll provide -- usually it's a data diskette, and 17 we'll send that and say, "Okay, here's your instructions," 18 and you get on the help line here and we can walk you 19 through it. You put the disk in and you upload it, print 20 off these pages saying it's confirmed and your application 21 number and all that, and then you wait. Takes about four to 22 six weeks for -- I.N.S. runs the verification on everybody, 23 making sure that they are, in fact, illegals. And the feds 24 do their part to divvy up the money, and then they announce 25 awards. 5-12-03 68 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have two questions, 2 just kind of -- just information I'd like to know. 3 MR. THOMPSON: Sure. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: One, do the federal 5 people then bill the country of Mexico, or whatever country 6 they're from? 7 MR. THOMPSON: No, sir. This -- this is a 8 bill that was set up back in '96, I believe, and it's funded 9 by the Senate and the House each year in Appropriations 10 Committee. It's about $565 million a year for the last two 11 years. This year there is some budget cuts, and they cut it 12 to $250 million. Senator Feinstein has a bill going around 13 right now, and we're working with the Sheriff's Association, 14 of which we're working with 26 state sheriff's associations 15 to assist them in lobbying and writing letters to 16 congressmen and so on to say, you know, every county has its 17 problem, and we need more funding in this program, because 18 it's federal responsibility for the illegals. It's not a 19 local -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with that. It 21 should be their own country. But how -- my next question, 22 how many illegals are in our jail facilities in the state of 23 Texas? About -- about a rough number. 24 MR. THOMPSON: I really have no way to know. 25 Too many. 5-12-03 69 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Too many. 2 MR. THOMPSON: Yes, sir. Well, like I say, I 3 mean, there is -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You saved me from 5 saying it. 6 MR. THOMPSON: Last year, there were 81 7 counties in the state that received money from this program. 8 72 of them I'm doing, or Vertex is. Harris County does 9 their own. El Paso does their own. We used to do Dallas 10 County. At the point that we were getting them $2.2 million 11 a year, they said, you know, "For this percentage we're 12 paying you, we can hire a couple of full-time people and do 13 it ourselves." Yeah, we understand. But they still asked 14 us to help them fine-tune it for the next two years. So -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rusty, what -- how many 16 do we have in Kerr County on an annual basis? 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: On a daily basis? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Annual, monthly, 19 whatever. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I couldn't tell you 21 right off. We'd have to go back and see what their criteria 22 on a state illegal alien -- you know, what actually fits in 23 there. Now, on just the ones every week, we're having 24 border patrol come pick up, okay, illegal aliens. A lot of 25 them are in there one or two days, which wouldn't qualify 5-12-03 70 1 for this, and a lot of them are ones that got a misdemeanor 2 DWI or criminal trespass or something like that, ending up 3 with 60 days, 30 days in jail, and we release them. But 4 it's weekly, they're here picking up illegal aliens. You 5 take Fredericksburg, who has half the population we have, 6 and their rebate last year was $17,000. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How much? 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: 17. 9 MR. THOMPSON: $17,000. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Net to them? 11 MR. THOMPSON: Well, that was their award 12 amount. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Their award amount. 14 MR. THOMPSON: That's 22 percent less. Yeah, 15 we -- the figures that you have -- if have you the sheet of 16 the awards, those are the awards that were announced by the 17 Bureau, and those -- that's what the draw down was for, and 18 that's subject to my invoice. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And this thing about 20 Denton County that they do, and Gillespie County that they 21 do, what will make it a little bit easier on us is that they 22 also both have the same software company, Software Group, 23 Incorporated, that does all the jail information and that 24 that we download, we have to gather to give to them, so 25 they're already working with that same computer program that 5-12-03 71 1 we have to be able to gather that information. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, the -- I think 3 Rusty and I had been through this before five or six months 4 ago, and I liked it then; I like it now. My only question 5 is -- is authorizing a contract that the County Attorney 6 hasn't been with you; I'm uncomfortable with that. But what 7 do you think, as a C.E.O.? What do you think of this 8 contract? Have you had the opportunity to -- 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I just reviewed it very 10 cursorily. Certainly, if you're inclined to make a motion, 11 you could make -- make my ability to sign it conditioned 12 upon the County Attorney's approval of it, subject to any 13 changes he may insist upon or may end up negotiating. 14 But -- but I think your point is well-made. That's really 15 his responsibility, and we need to utilize his -- his office 16 and his resources to see that we're doing things properly. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Approve it in a memo 18 form to you, in writing? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Either that, or on the face of 20 the contract. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Commissioner, one thing 22 I will say is we got this contract to David last week, and 23 he actually has a copy of it with him. I didn't know if I 24 got that clear. He has reviewed it. He called me yesterday 25 and advised that he didn't have a problem. He said there 5-12-03 72 1 was little tweakings, but it didn't amount to anything. He 2 didn't have a problem with the contract and wanted me to 3 relay that to y'all, because he couldn't be here today. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand that, but 5 I'd like to hear his voice on the record and -- 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. The only concern 7 we have is, as he stated, the deadline's the 23rd of this 8 month to get registered, and we have to have a contract to 9 get registered and get this year's funding. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, I will make that 11 motion contingent upon the County Attorney responding in 12 writing. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Indicating his approval on the 14 face of the contract, for example? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded by 19 Commissioners Baldwin and Letz, respectively, that the -- 20 that the Court authorize the Sheriff's Office to apply for 21 the SCAAP program and authorize County Judge to sign the 22 contract upon the County Attorney approving the contract and 23 indicating his approval on the face of the contract. Any 24 further discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 25 raising your right hand. 5-12-03 73 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Thank you 5 very much. I appreciate it. 6 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Going to run through 8 or take a break? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, let's -- what's your 10 pleasure, gentlemen? It's about break time. I need to be 11 concerned about this young lady here. She needs a little 12 break time. Why don't we take about 10 to 15 minutes, and 13 come on back? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ten or 15? 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Come back at 10:40. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that a motion, Commissioner 17 Nicholson? We'll stand in Recess until 10:40. 18 (Recess taken from 10:31 a.m. to 10:40 a.m.) 19 - - - - - - - - - - 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's come back to 21 order, if you would, please. We will reconvene this meeting 22 of the regular Commissioners Court on Monday, May 12th. 23 Next item on the agenda is consider and discuss authorizing 24 the Sheriff's Office to trade four cars and to purchase a 25 used car for C.I.D. 5-12-03 74 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What this is, is we have 2 three of the yellow cars, the pieces of junk that we downed 3 after we got our last six new ones in, and they are just 4 parked somewhere with major mechanical problems. They're 5 not going anywhere; they can't be used any more. And I have 6 one current C.I.D. vehicle, being the old Ram Charger that 7 y'all have seen around, that kind of brownish Ram Charger. 8 It's been in the department almost 10 years, and it doesn't 9 even have an air-conditioner that's anywhere near functional 10 any more, and won't be; the vehicle itself is not worth 11 putting an air-conditioner back in it to get through the 12 summer. So, I'm asking permission to trade those. Ken 13 Stoepel Ford is the only one that's given us a bid on them, 14 and they're so valuable, all four of them will bring us 15 $4,000. The other thing -- which, for $4,000, I'm not going 16 to get a very good trade-in. Now, we did have a vehicle 17 several months ago that was totaled in a wreck, another 18 yellow one. That check that the Auditor's office got for 19 that insurance on that vehicle was $8,000 something. I 20 would like to take both the trade-in and some of that $8,000 21 to be able to acquire a C.I.D. vehicle to replace the Ram 22 Charger with, and get through it that way. 23 We haven't, in any of our budget constraints, 24 or budget negotiations -- since I've been Sheriff, we've 25 never purchased -- actually out and out purchased new 5-12-03 75 1 vehicles or vehicles for C.I.D. We even have one yellow 2 patrol car that's now a C.I.D. vehicle. And then the other 3 thing we did, we had a seizure that was just being completed 4 when I took office of a valuable vehicle, and we traded that 5 one and I think some old cars that we had in that first 6 year, and were able to get two Ford Tauruses for that 7 amount. One of those went into Warrants and one of those 8 went into C.I.D. So, the only different vehicles C.I.D. has 9 had in three years has been one program car -- program used 10 Ford Taurus, and our C.I.D. vehicles are getting pretty 11 severe. I'd say there's one of them that we're still going 12 to have to keep for another year or two until we can figure 13 another way to -- as we get the new patrol cars moving. 14 Another one of the older ones is that maroon 15 Chevy Caprice that we had. To give you an idea of what the 16 C.I.D. vehicles are like, that vehicle was D.P.S. Sergeant 17 Charlie Seal's sergeant's car when he was stationed here, 18 and when it got traded one year back in because of mileage, 19 Kerr County purchased it, and when I was chief investigator 20 with the Sheriff's Office in '95 -- '94-'95, I drove that 21 vehicle. And our C.I.D. guys are still driving that 22 vehicle, and it's not going to make it another year either, 23 because it had 100,000 miles on it when we got it in about 24 '95. These are some we're just trying to find other ways, 25 'cause I did make a deal that any of our new cars we 5-12-03 76 1 purchased are going on patrol, so we've been trying to get 2 those old 100,000-plus, 200,000-plus vehicles off patrol. 3 This is one way of being able to replenish those in C.I.D. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Rusty, when we 5 started talking several years ago when we began our leasing 6 program -- 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- or the rotation 9 program, we had talked about, at some point in our lifetime, 10 that we -- you'd have a full staff of vehicles and we could 11 start -- start moving some of those the older vehicles over 12 to other departments, such as the constables' offices and 13 all that. It looks like we're never going to get there. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, we're getting there, 15 okay? We aren't there yet, all right? We still -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: At what point do you 17 think that that would be -- 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We still have eight of 19 those old yellow cars with 100,000-plus miles on them. By 20 the time we get -- you know, every year when we've been 21 getting six, okay, we rotate out six of those oldest cars. 22 Those were kept so long that the mileage on those is even 23 too -- too high to pass them down. You can see that by what 24 we're being offered even in just a trade-in. Once we get 25 through that stage, which is going to take probably another 5-12-03 77 1 two years, then we will start rotating out the first of the 2 white cars that we got the first year I took office. Those 3 will have between 100,000 and 120,000 miles on them by then, 4 but they aren't in near the shape that those yellow ones 5 were. We've changed maintenance programs, everything else 6 like that, so at those -- at that point, when you can start 7 rotating out those, those would be the ones that I would 8 come back to y'all and say, "Let's don't trade them in; 9 let's assign them to another department." 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I -- I think we 11 had talked about this a couple of weeks ago. I told them 12 that I had sent you a -- a memo asking you for some 13 information and your thoughts and your intentions and all 14 those things as we kind of -- you know, we were approaching 15 our budget and we kind of want to know those things, you 16 know, at some -- here it is. Here's the note. We still 17 want those questions answered, please. We need that in 18 order to -- I mean, I think that we're in the long-term plan 19 mode just like you are, and we need to -- we need to know, 20 you know, what our -- what the big picture is, because we 21 did make somewhat of a commitment to -- not necessarily just 22 to the constables, but to -- if I remember, constables 23 was -- the word "constables" was used more than others, but 24 it was other agencies inside the county system. But we need 25 to -- we need to sit down and start figuring that out so we 5-12-03 78 1 can see, you know. We want to see an end date of when -- 2 when you're going to be fully staffed with vehicles, when 3 your staff has new vehicles and all that kind of -- you 4 know, all that's done, so we can see what our plan is. You 5 know, what -- at what point are we going to -- are we going 6 to continue to lease six cars every year, or are we going to 7 -- at some point, are we going to cut it down to four? You 8 know, I just think this Commissioners Court would like to -- 9 and I'm kind of putting words in their mouths right now, but 10 I think that they'd agree with me that, you know, for a 11 long-term planning situation, you know, we -- we need to 12 take a look at that. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I agree. And to answer 14 that, in a nutshell, it's going to be two years before we 15 can start possibly thinking about supplying those cars to 16 the constables. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But as far as today is 18 concerned, I mean, just -- I don't know. I'll let these 19 here guys -- 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: These cars that we're 21 getting -- I'm trying to get rid of today are not suitable 22 for anybody to drive any more. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Seemed like I saw that 5-12-03 79 1 Ram Charger when I was a little kid, maybe. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think you probably 3 did. But these are not for that -- in your deal, two years 4 before we can start rotating them out. And I hope -- I'm 5 looking at the mileage on our very first set of six; we're 6 watching that to see where it's going to be. I -- I hope at 7 that point, once we hit that maintenance mode or just 8 rotating them, that maybe we can drop that down to four cars 9 a year. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well -- let me just 11 say one more thing, Bill. So, maybe over -- I would hope 12 that you and the Judge are going to sit down soon and talk 13 budgets and all that very soon, I think. Maybe you could 14 possibly visit with him about all of those things, and then 15 he can relate to us during the -- the budget process. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The Judge and I have 17 already had a phone conversation, 'cause I was wanting to 18 find out how his budget process works, and I think we've 19 both agreed that we're going to have a very long, 20 productive, sit-down on working out the budget, and all this 21 has to come up during that -- that process. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, it does. Yes, it 23 does. And that's the reason I'm kind of hammering it, 24 because it really and truly has to happen. We need to -- we 25 need to really work on this and know what exactly what we're 5-12-03 80 1 going to do and just kind of -- I go back to Norman 2 Schwarzkoff. When he sets up his wars, you know he's going 3 to go in on a certain day, he's going to do this, and he 4 leaves on a certain date. That's kind of what I -- I'd like 5 to see us do. You know, I'd like to see us have that plan 6 of knowing our entry date and our exit date on these kind of 7 things, so we can get to it. Would you agree to that, 8 Judge? Could you visit with him and relay that information 9 back to us? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm going to be talking with 11 -- and I've told most of the elected officials and 12 department heads that -- that once I put out the preliminary 13 budget request information, which I'm in the process of 14 compiling now, that once they get a chance to get their 15 information rolling, I'm going to be putting mine together 16 independently. Then it's my intention to meet with each and 17 every elected official and department head and, one-on-one, 18 go through their entire budget. And, obviously, the items 19 that you've mentioned in this memo are going to be items 20 that are going to be very pertinent to that process. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I would think so. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They will be, especially 23 this year. I'm very proud of the fact -- and it's something 24 that the Judge and I have talked about, and I know he's got 25 me working on a lot of it, is this is our longevity year for 5-12-03 81 1 the employees. And I am proud of the fact that, overall, 2 between deputies and jail staff, I have 60 employees in line 3 for longevity raises. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a miracle. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's fabulous. Okay. 6 But that is going to be something that I -- the Judge and I 7 will have to talk about, 'cause that is going to be a very 8 large impact on the salary budget. So, we'll be visiting 9 about all that. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rusty -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oops. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Go ahead. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I can see -- go ahead, 14 Bill. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, no. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You go first. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Rusty, I think when 18 you're talking to the Judge about all this, you might want 19 to throw in another little tidbit of information, and that 20 would have to do with, of the 24 cars that you have obtained 21 through the leasing program, which is, you know, four times 22 six, that gives you 24 pretty good automobiles. How many of 23 those are on the road at any given time? And -- and the 24 reason I ask that is because that goes to justification for 25 additional vehicles. If you've got 12 on the road and 12 in 5-12-03 82 1 the parking lot, I'm wondering why we'd need additional 2 vehicles, so I'd like to have you confirm that with the 3 Judge and talk to him about it. And, secondly, my 4 recollection is the same as Commissioner Baldwin's in terms 5 of the leasing program. When we had established that four 6 years ago, we did so with a clear intent that we would be 7 rotating out of your fleet those vehicles that had excessive 8 mileage on them and that were dangerous, and not -- not up 9 to the utilization that you need, and -- but they would be 10 good enough for constables, perhaps, to utilize in the 11 pursuit of their responsibilities. So, now I'm hearing you 12 say we're two more years away from that, and I'm curious as 13 to why. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Because the fleet we had 15 before we started this lease program was, in essence, of no 16 use when we started the lease program. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's why we started 18 the lease program. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's why we started 20 it. We were running cars with even 200,000, 300,000, and 21 400,000 miles on them. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand. That's 23 why we started the program. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: So it's taken us four 25 years -- instead of trying to replace that entire fleet in 5-12-03 83 1 one year, it's taken us these four years, at six a year, to 2 even get back up to the point where we have reliable cars. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But if we authorize 4 six more this year -- if; that's a big "if" -- there would 5 be six more. There would be six of the first ones out of 6 the -- out of the rotation. As a matter of fact, you got 7 six out of the rotation already, 'cause it's a four-year 8 program, and six of them were probably purchased for a 9 dollar apiece. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What -- what it does, we 11 also still have -- okay, that's patrol. I've already said 12 the new cars would always go on patrol, and I stayed behind 13 that, and they do. We have our Warrants division, which 14 averages 93,000 miles a year, okay? And that's just the 15 transport officer. Then you have two other warrant 16 officers. You have the jail that has to use a car. They're 17 all using yellow ones now. All right? If you have a lot of 18 those other -- we have a yellow one in C.I.D., you know, 19 where we've rotated around to use them in different parts of 20 our department to get them off the road, because they are 21 in -- in such bad shape and they are not cars that you want 22 to keep. So, we still have to replace -- C.I.D. and patrol 23 are not the only two parts that use vehicles. We still have 24 four in Warrants, you have a jail vehicle and civil vehicle. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's all part of 5-12-03 84 1 what we'd like to hear you document for us. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No problem. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In writing. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No problem. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So we can understand 6 it. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Sure. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You may have stretched 9 it a little bit there. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Careful, Buster. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How about remember? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes, sir. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My question goes back to 15 your proposal right here. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sort of -- nothing 18 against Ken Stoepel Ford, but whenever I trade in anything, 19 I get about half what I can get elsewhere if I take it to 20 any major dealership. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We called -- and we 22 probably burned ourselves the first year we did this, 23 because that -- the ones we got rid of that year had to be 24 loaded and towed out of the parking lot. So, when we called 25 and asked people to come in and -- and look at these cars so 5-12-03 85 1 that we can get ideas and bids on them, I think Ken Stoepel 2 is the only one that showed up this year to do it. We did 3 include several of the other ones. Now, I don't call 4 dealers in San Antonio on that, because most of the time 5 what they're doing with these is scrapping them anyhow. 6 They're not -- shipping them to Mexico and letting them be 7 used for taxis or something is about what they do. But we 8 don't have that many that even want to consider taking these 9 vehicles. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And out of these four, 11 how many of them run? 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: May be able to get them 13 all started. The Ram Charger is still in use right now. 14 There's no air-conditioner. Maintenance, there's some -- I 15 think a main seal leak on it and a few other things. A 16 couple of the -- the other three, one of them may start. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I guess I probably 18 don't have a big problem if they're in that bad of shape, 19 but I concur with what those two Commissioners have said, 20 and it's going to be -- you know, in my mind, I thought we 21 were going to be rotating cars out to constables this year, 22 so I'm just bringing this up for budget information. That 23 was in my mind-set as to happen. So -- 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The problem is -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- just have to enter the 5-12-03 86 1 equation somehow during the budget process. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I agree, and I hope that 3 we can rotate them out to constables as soon as possible, 4 but with what I see and where we are right now and the shape 5 of the vehicles, especially those old ones, these old ones 6 were so old when we all started this that it has taken us 7 four years to get rid of these. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I hear you keep saying 9 that, but I was a Commissioner before you were Sheriff, and 10 we were buying four and six cars a year. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Two. The last year that 12 they were bought, there was two. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maybe two the last year, 14 but I think six my first year and four the year after that. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think there was four. 16 And your first year was how long ago? Okay. My -- the 17 problem is, these that -- the first set of six that we have 18 already have right at 70,000 on them now. The first set of 19 six white ones. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not -- you know. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It just took us a while 22 to replenish this -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I know we needed new 24 cars. That's why we entered into the leasing program. But 25 it's just -- I mean, the -- and the idea is that your 5-12-03 87 1 officers need the safe vehicles, 'cause they have the 2 highest chance of being in any kind of a high-speed 3 situation, whereas that is a greatly reduced probability 4 with the constables. They're more just patrolling, and -- I 5 think, you know, to be visible, and warrants, things of that 6 nature. So, their cars do not need to be as good a 7 condition as the department's patrol vehicles. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And we're all in 9 agreement, Commissioner, on getting them down to the 10 constables. I think they should have it. It would help us 11 if a constable wasn't having to use his own personal vehicle 12 a lot of times, whether it's transporting somebody they 13 arrest or actually getting out and patrolling. I have no 14 problem, but these vehicles we're getting rid of aren't even 15 useful for a constable's office. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, I move we 18 authorize the Sheriff to trade four cars and purchase used 19 car for C.I.D. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that 22 the Sheriff be authorized to trade four existing older 23 vehicles and purchase a used vehicle for his Criminal 24 Investigations. Any further discussion? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. I assume that 5-12-03 88 1 you're going to use the -- the claims money on that other 2 vehicle to go with this $4,000? It does? 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I would hope it does, 4 okay. Or at least a portion of that or something on that 5 claim, 'cause I do need that money, and a $4,000 car is not 6 going to get me much. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Motion should embody 8 that. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That is true. The 10 motion should embody that, if that's the case. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: And if it's not going to be 12 all of it, it should designate what portion of it, probably. 13 It was your motion, I believe, wasn't it, Commissioner 14 Baldwin? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did you say eight? 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It was $8,000 something, 17 is -- 18 MR. TOMLINSON: Slightly over $8,000. I 19 don't remember. I'm not for sure. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: $8,000. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just add the words, 22 "up to $8,000"? I'm not sure where this 8,000 bucks is, 23 where it came from. 24 MR. TOMLINSON: It came from the insurance 25 proceeds from a car. 5-12-03 89 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, yeah. 2 MR. TOMLINSON: Car that was totaled. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I could have sworn 4 we'd already spent that once, but -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, my recommendation 6 would be to spend as much of it -- I mean, all of it, 7 because the more we spend, the better car we get, and that 8 helps us for -- I mean, I say spend all the proceeds towards 9 it. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't have any 11 problem with that. I just think it ought to be embodied in 12 the motion. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you want to include -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Include. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: -- the 8,000-plus dollars that 17 was received from the insurance proceeds that was previously 18 transmitted to Kerr County? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Any part of that? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: That being the case, any 23 further discussion or questions? All in favor of the 24 motion, as amended, signify by saying "aye." 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5-12-03 90 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Next item 4 is consideration of authorizing Sheriff's Office to enter 5 into an interlocal agreement with L.C.R.A. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: In part of our new radio 7 system, the interoperability to be able the talk to all the 8 other agencies was all part of that. We have two agencies 9 in this area, being Gillespie County Sheriff's Office and 10 Kendall County Sheriff's Office; I guess Comfort or 11 Fredericksburg P.D. also use that L.C.R.A. 900 Megahertz 12 system as their primary radio system. We did not opt and 13 definitely did not want to go to the L.C.R.A. system in this 14 county; it wouldn't work with what we need. But what we do 15 have in our console at the Sheriff's Office in our new radio 16 system, there is one L.C.R.A. radio that allows our guys on 17 the street to be able to be patched, interlinked through our 18 console, and talk directly to the Gillespie County cars or 19 Kendall County cars through that one radio. That was all 20 installed by Dailey Wells as part of our contract on our new 21 system. But we still have to have an agreement with 22 L.C.R.A. to be able to use that radio, 'cause you're 23 actually talking to their radio. The agreement is we're not 24 paying for any equipment, and if you look through that, 25 you'll see where it's all "N/A" and zeros on the equipment. 5-12-03 91 1 The only thing we're paying for is the one radio in our 2 console, which is a monthly fee of $19.95 or $19.99 a month 3 that we have to have to be able to use that system. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: $19.95? 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: A month. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Times 24? One $19.95? 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's just one $19.95, 8 period. It's only one radio that we have of theirs. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a monthly fee? 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: $19.95. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a good deal in 12 order to be able to communicate with those, and we knew this 13 was coming. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes, this was just part 15 of what we had figured in the contract. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded by 19 Commissioners Williams and Nicholson, respectively, that the 20 Court -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask a question. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: -- approve the interlocal 23 agreement with L.C.R.A. for the one radio to be able to 24 communicate with outside agencies, and to pay the $20 25 approximate monthly cost for same, and that the County Judge 5-12-03 92 1 be authorized to execute that interlocal agreement. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sounds good to me. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any further discussion? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're -- yeah. Let's 5 see. We're authorizing the actual payment of it too, of 6 course, or you would. Does that come out of Rusty's salary 7 or the Auditor's salary? 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'll find a line item to 9 put it in, Buster. It will come out of our Radio 10 Maintenance. It will end up having to come out of our Radio 11 Maintenance in that part of it. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or 13 discussion? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do we need to get the 15 contract approved by the County Attorney? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why not? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Good plan. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Contingent upon -- 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Subject to the 20 approval of the County Attorney. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Sheriff, will you 22 settle an argument between me and the County Judge? Will a 23 hundred cases of beer fit in one pickup truck? 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes, real well. It's 25 locked up out on our place right now. Of course, I don't 5-12-03 93 1 know how much they got to drink before we seized it all. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Who won the bet? 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Judge did. I 5 thought it would take at least two pickups. Bill looks 6 perplexed. Sheriff made an arrest last night on the people 7 that stole that hundred cases of beer. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Anybody we know and 9 love? 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Not in my precinct. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It was one of your 12 summer starting early -- it was a beer party that we 13 responded to, and we ended up issuing 16 minor-in-possession 14 citations and one arrest, seized the pickup full of all the 15 beer that had allegedly been stolen from Carson 16 Distributing, so they're still working on it to prove that. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can you use that pickup? 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We're looking at that. 19 It is a -- I just don't know what's owed on it. You 20 probably wouldn't want me to pay it off, so we'll have to 21 see first. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: If you auction the 23 beer off, let me know. I want to bid on it. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further discussion? All 25 in favor of the motion, as amended, signify by raising your 5-12-03 94 1 right hand. 2 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 4 (No response.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Do you want me to take 7 the forms back until I can get David to look at those? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I sure do. I sure do. The 9 next item, consider and take appropriate action on 10 appointing Brad Alford as Deputy Constable for Precinct 2. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, Constable 12 Ayala put this in, and I knew it was going to be placed in. 13 I -- in fact, I helped him draft it. He's tied up in J.P. 14 Court 2 all day today, and asked me if I'd present it. 15 And -- and Brad is here to assist us in discussions that 16 take place. My understanding, as detailed in the backup 17 material, is that this would provide some additional 18 courthouse security. There is no cost to the County in 19 terms of -- for services rendered in the event the 20 courthouse security is -- additional courthouse security is 21 needed, and there's no salary involved. There would be a 22 couple items regarding TCLEOSE physical and psychological 23 examinations; some fees for that are involved, and nobody's 24 yet told me where those dollars are coming from. But, other 25 than that, those would be the only costs to the County. And 5-12-03 95 1 what else would you like to add, Brad? 2 MR. ALFORD: That's basically it. This was 3 brought to my attention just to assist in courthouse 4 security in case something comes up. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Emergency, as needed? 6 MR. ALFORD: It's strictly as needed. Very, 7 very low profile. I have no intentions of really letting 8 anybody know about it, as far as becoming a uniformed 9 officer, badge-packing type deal. It's just going to be 10 something that, if the Sheriff deems necessary during a 11 situation, or his deputy's out of commission, I'll be able 12 to assist. There's times when they're tied up in court. 13 There's, from time to time, some civil papers that may free 14 up one of the Sheriff's guys. I think, Sheriff, you have 15 somebody come by two or three times a day anyway, but it's 16 just, you know, different odds and ends that would help the 17 County out with me being here already. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Does anybody have an 19 answer to where the fees are coming from? I think the 20 bonding, we'd have to take care of. 21 MR. ALFORD: I have heard some issues on it, 22 and I really don't know if I'm the one to bring that up or 23 not. Again, Constable Ayala and, I think, the Judge have 24 talked a little bit. I've talked a little bit to 25 Commissioner Baldwin and the Auditor. To answer your 5-12-03 96 1 question, no, sir, I don't, but I know there has been 2 discussion about it, and I don't know what anybody has 3 decided, if anything. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We'll start with the 5 Judge and see if he knows the answer, and we'll work our way 6 down here. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Judge doesn't know the answer. 8 I had a discussion with Mr. Alford, as he's indicated. The 9 way it was presented to me was that, you know, his primary 10 function, of course, is collections, but -- but that his 11 being a commissioned peace officer on the premises, if we 12 had an incident arise in the courthouse and the Sheriff's 13 courthouse security people were -- did not happen to be 14 present at the time or happened to be tied up on something 15 and there had to be some absolute, right-this-red-hot-minute 16 immediate action taken, I think the County -- from a 17 liability standpoint, it's better if you have a commissioned 18 peace officer attending to that matter. But it's -- it's an 19 absolute last-gap emergency kind of situation, not -- not a 20 routine courthouse security. That, of course, is the 21 Sheriff's function, and he's responsible for that and 22 provides for it. Is -- is that not the understanding that I 23 gained? 24 MR. ALFORD: Very much so. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Sheriff, you had 5-12-03 97 1 something that -- 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. The only thing -- 3 and Brad and I are friends; I have no problem with whatever 4 the Court decides to do on this. I just don't want it out 5 as a courthouse security, you know, personnel, period, 6 because that is under -- under my responsibility. And, of 7 course, him being a deputy constable would not be under my 8 responsibility. Now, I would hope that any commissioned 9 peace officer that's in this building -- and I don't think 10 there's a one around this part of the state, even if he's 11 from somewhere else, that if we did need him, wouldn't jump 12 in and help, but they do need to be a commissioned peace 13 officer. There is a part of the local code which I had 14 pointed out to you which could have an effect on this, and I 15 think y'all may have that as your backup also. Commissioner 16 Williams supplied it, where it does state in there that the 17 deputy constable must qualify in the manner provided for 18 deputy sheriffs, but the constable is responsible for -- 19 let's see. This is not -- let me get to it. I -- okay. It 20 says elected constable who desires to appoint a deputy must 21 apply in writing to the Commissioners Court of the county 22 and show that it is necessary to appoint a deputy in order 23 to properly handle the business of the constable's office 24 that originates in the constable's precinct. And we're not 25 in Precinct 2 in this courthouse. 5-12-03 98 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, that's a very 2 good point. So, you know, I think we're arguing that -- 3 we're not arguing, but we've got a counterpoint here that 4 wasn't brought out in the original issue. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And, personally, I have 6 no problem. I always -- you know, the more help in law 7 enforcement -- there's a lot more bad guys than there are 8 law enforcement, so the more help we get, the happier I am. 9 But some of that, y'all might want to look at. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, Judge, as far as 11 the -- as far as those fees for those medical examinations 12 and psychological examinations are concerned, that's where 13 we are, is where's that money going to come from? I think 14 it's Mr. Ayala's responsibility to figure that out and come 15 before this Court and present his claim, just like -- that's 16 what everybody else does in the county system. If they want 17 to -- if there's to be money moved around, they need to 18 figure out how to do it. We shouldn't be in here trying to 19 figure out how to run his office. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree with that. I 21 would invite him back for that purpose. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree with that. The 23 other question I have -- and it goes a little bit to kind of 24 what the Judge mentioned, that, you know, if something 25 happens, you're better off having a licensed peace officer. 5-12-03 99 1 That triggered a thought to me, is that if we don't allow 2 any training for that officer and something does happen, you 3 know, I can almost see us being in a worse situation, you 4 know, kind of having a -- I mean, he's a licensed police 5 officer, but at the same time, we're not giving him any 6 funds really for doing it, or we're not training him. And I 7 can see a flip of that liability if something were to 8 happen -- and I don't think it's going to happen, but just a 9 thought that I had regarding liability when the Judge 10 mentioned it. But I think the more important issues are, as 11 Rusty's mentioned before, this isn't Precinct 2, and also, 12 of course, the budget concerns. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: On the training, of 15 course, y'all will remember last year I agreed, as part of 16 the training budget, to have the constables join us out at 17 Thunder Ranch for firearms training. I know my department's 18 minimum qualifications, even for firearms training, has gone 19 up drastically in a few years, and I've even lost an officer 20 recently because of the -- our requirements. But we do not 21 pay out of our training budget for any of the constables' 22 deputies to go out there, and that is a large expense, even 23 for that type of -- you know, if you want that type and 24 caliber of firearms training. 25 MR. ALFORD: That's not required by TCLEOSE. 5-12-03 100 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. What is required is 2 a very minimum, but I don't know what is required, and that 3 could be a question later on. Well, if your Sheriff's 4 Department does more, then we can do -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rusty, up to this point, 6 we haven't required -- we've got other deputy constables 7 that didn't have that. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You still do. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And still do. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm not opposed to 11 it, but I'd like to maybe -- Judge, for you to give us a 12 little insight as to whether or not Section 86.011 of the 13 Local Government Code, Subparagraph (a), by reason of the 14 way it's written and what has been expressed here today as 15 to where the responsibility would be, would these -- do 16 these things match? Are we hand-in-glove? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: In response to that, 18 Commissioner, the -- the general narrative attached to the 19 agenda item where it talks about additional courthouse 20 security, I think that's a misstatement, number one. When I 21 saw that, that's -- that's exactly what struck me. But 22 the -- the language in the Local Government Code requires 23 the constable seeking the appointment of the deputy in order 24 to properly handle the business of the constable's office 25 that originates in that precinct, and that we must make a 5-12-03 101 1 determination, in making that appointment, that that 2 constable needs a deputy to handle the business in the 3 precinct. The only thing I can suggest at this point will 4 be to possibly -- we've already got an issue of where's -- 5 if we make this appointment, where these funds are going to 6 come from. Possibly have the Precinct 2 constable appear at 7 our next meeting or some subsequent meeting, if he so 8 desires, to give us the indication of how his desire to 9 appoint this deputy falls under this particular statutory 10 provision, as well as the monetary aspects of it. That 11 would seem to be kind of where we are. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would agree, and 13 I'll ask Constable Ayala to put it back on the agenda next 14 time. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Any member of the Court wish 16 to make any motion in connection with this action? All 17 right, we'll pass on to the next item, then, discuss and 18 take appropriate action on setting a date for Commissioners 19 Court workshop meeting for the purpose of reviewing 20 first-round revisions to Kerr County Parks and Recreation 21 Master Plan, that plan having been originally adopted in 22 1996. Commissioner Williams. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm not sure 24 everybody on the bench has seen this. You've got a copy of 25 it, Commissioner? 5-12-03 102 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Is that this book? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is the original. 3 This is the 1996 version. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No, I haven't seen 5 it. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I know Commissioner 7 Letz has seen it, because that's where I got this. This was 8 adopted by the Court in 1996, but I would venture to suggest 9 that probably most of the work that led up to this document 10 probably took place in 1995. And the Court, in either of 11 those years, authorized the hiring of a consultant to do 12 this work, and I think Ms. Sovil reminded me that it cost 13 about $25,000 for the Court to get the consulting work done. 14 You heard Mr. Miller this morning talk about their plans for 15 the Texas State Arts and Crafts Fair to build a facility on 16 our property, and they intend to go after grants and so 17 forth, and they have identified certain grants that are 18 important to their particular project. There is that 19 prerequisite, however; it falls back on us. They can't go 20 after a T.P.W. grant and probably an L.C.R.A. grant if we do 21 not have a current Parks and Recreation Master Plan in 22 place. 23 So, again, I'm bringing Jonathan into the 24 loop, because he and I have talked about this in the past, 25 and I agreed to take the project under my wing and see if we 5-12-03 103 1 could get this done. And we have gotten it done to this 2 point at no cost to the County. So, what's in front of you 3 is -- is a reworking of the old '96 plan, bringing all the 4 charts and graphs and information up to date from sources of 5 U.S. Census Bureau, the Texas Almanac, and everything else 6 we could get our hands on. And the work that was performed 7 that you see before you, most of that grunt work, if you 8 will, was done by the Convention and Visitors Bureau, and a 9 big thank to you Sudie Burditt for that purpose. Now, there 10 are some things that -- in there that are -- a couple things 11 we need to point out. There's some things in there that are 12 not complete. And in the -- in the inventory of park 13 facilities, Commissioner Nicholson, I don't have a lot of 14 information about Ingram Lake Park Dam, Lake Park, or 15 whatever it's officially known as, in terms of its size and 16 amenities, and so if you would be so good as to provide that 17 information back to me, we can incorporate it in a little 18 more completely than it is. And if there are any other 19 parks out there that we don't know about, they need to be 20 included, too. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'll try to do that, 22 Commissioner. We were out there the other day trying to 23 figure out whether or not we had a park out there, so -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- it may not be 5-12-03 104 1 easy. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Once you make that 3 decision it would be easy if we don't have a park, we'll 4 take it out of the inventory, so let me know. The other 5 thing is, in the last survey -- the consultants performed or 6 did a small community survey, and I know we had a parks 7 board or special committee that did that, and I know they 8 worked on it. And I think there was something like 200 9 surveys that they -- that they took a look at and combined 10 the resources. So, what I'm passing out to you -- I'll give 11 you some, Judge; don't want you to feel slighted. We'll 12 give you some -- is a new survey. This, too, was updated 13 from the previous one. It was prepared by Sudie's office, 14 and distribution of that has begun. It has begun in 15 businesses in town, and various people have gotten copies of 16 it through the C.V.B. in Precinct 2. I've had it 17 distributed in Center Point extensively, and it's in the 18 school system right now for those young people to take a 19 look at it, give us some evaluation along with some other 20 people. 21 So, I would ask you to take these and get as 22 many of them as you can. You don't have to do the whole 23 stack, but as many as you can get done, and if you want to 24 do them all yourself, you can do that too. And what I need 25 -- what I need really is the Court to set a date for a 5-12-03 105 1 workshop. So, after you've had a chance to digest this, we 2 need to have a workshop, talk about all the good and the bad 3 and the ugly, make additions, make subtractions and so 4 forth. I'd like to get that done as quickly as possible so 5 that our goal of having it ready for the Court to approve in 6 the last meeting of this month, or no later than the first 7 meeting in June, can be accomplished. This has to be in 8 place before anybody can go out and seek grants for County 9 property. So, I -- what I'd like to do, Judge, is set a 10 workshop, and if it's possible to do so before this week is 11 out, that would be good. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Before this week is out? Is 13 that what I heard? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If possible. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're going to have a 17 workshop this week? Is that what you're saying? What are 18 you saying? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: That's what I heard. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I couldn't hear you. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I had my back to you. 22 If we could have a workshop sometime before this week is 23 out. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 72-hour notice 25 thing and all that? 5-12-03 106 1 MS. SOVIL: Friday. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Friday morning? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Friday. And this 4 whole thing -- help me just a little bit. The whole thing 5 hinges on Arts and Crafts Fair? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, it also 7 hinges -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There's no other 9 entity out there? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. Us, too. If we 11 wanted to do something, go out there for grant money, we'd 12 have to -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. Of 14 course, we have that. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, but the old plan 16 expired -- it expired in '01, so we have to have another 17 one. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think Commissioner 19 Baldwin is aware of it, but that old plan was developed out 20 of the grant from L.C.R.A., who paid for that $25,000 for 21 that grant. And the purpose of L.C.R. -- the reason 22 L.C.R.A. did that was so they would then fund $180,000 for 23 the Flat Rock improvements that were done. And I think -- I 24 mean, it makes sense to, you know, update that and not spend 25 any additional money on it. And it's just -- I mean, the 5-12-03 107 1 magic thing is that the Parks and Wildlife and some other 2 foundations, you have to have a master county park plan, 3 and, you know, I commend Commissioner Williams for figuring 4 out a way to get one done at no cost to us. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, everybody check 6 their calendar. I think we can whip this workshop in an 7 hour or less, probably. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's an important day. 9 That's the first day of the Texas A & M/University of Texas 10 baseball series. (Laughter.) 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What time does the 12 first game start? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not till 6:30. But, I 14 mean, I have to -- may have to get there early. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Preparations. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Seriously, gentlemen, I -- I 17 have a commitment in Austin in the very early afternoon; 18 let's just say I have to -- needless to say, I have to get 19 there in connection with my -- my stepson, on the staffing 20 there. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If that's not good 22 for you, Judge, how about next Monday? That makes it kind 23 of short for me to get it all pulled back together. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Next Monday is a better 25 day from my standpoint. 5-12-03 108 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Monday morning will work. We 2 don't have a Commissioners Court meeting. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: All right. I would 4 move that we set a public -- workshop, not public hearing -- 5 a workshop for the purpose of reviewing and input into this 6 first draft revisions of Kerr County Parks and Recreation 7 Management Plan for the 19th at 9 a.m. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that 10 we have a workshop on the draft of Parks and Recreation 11 Master Plan, as presented, and that's for the purposes of 12 presenting additional input, changes, corrections, et 13 cetera. Any further discussion? All in favor, signify by 14 raising your right hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Monday, 19 9 a.m. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. That brings us down to 22 -- I'm not aware of anything that we need to go into closed 23 or executive session about. Do any of you gentlemen have 24 anything there? Okay. This brings us down to the Auditor, 25 payment of the bills. You have them all in front of you 5-12-03 109 1 there, Commissioner Baldwin. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: Any questions? 4 AUDIENCE: Next Monday, here? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Next Monday, 9 a.m., 6 right here. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have a question, but 8 I'll ask Maintenance about it. 9 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He's not here. Move we 11 pay the bills. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion's been made and 14 seconded by Commissioners Letz and Baldwin, respectively, 15 that we authorize the payment of the bills as presented by 16 the Auditor. Is there any discussion or questions? 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Looking at Page 8 of 18 Youth Exhibition Center, $5,000 for installing new bay 19 lights in Ag Barn. I don't even know what my question is. 20 Is it -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mine would be, what 22 the hell's a bay light? Or what is a bay? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My question was the same. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think my question 25 is, is this part of our rehabilitation starting with the 5-12-03 110 1 funds that we've got available? Or is it routine? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Commissioner, can you 3 pass those -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure, be happy to, or 5 I'll pull it for you. What's the number? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: 149938. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 149938. Where's the 8 numbers, Tommy? 149938? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 10 (Discussion off the record.) 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't think the 12 answer's there. And I don't have any objection to it. You 13 know, lighting is not all that good out there. My -- my 14 issue is, is this part of our strategy, or how does it fit 15 or -- 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, if it is, we 17 should have been told about it. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Which would imply we 19 have a strategy. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, that's an 21 assumption you could make. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It may be confidential 23 information here. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: You need to get an Aggie in 25 here to help you? 5-12-03 111 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right, yeah. 2 Nothing to it. Do you want to finger it out? 3 MR. TOMLINSON: I talked to him this morning. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Benno's Electric. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: $5,000. 6 MR. TOMLINSON: Just exactly what it says. 7 The -- on the -- 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Lot of enlightenment 9 there. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, what is a bay? 11 Is it like in a fire station, a place where you'd park -- 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I bet you it's over there on 13 that east end, where you've got all those doors coming into 14 that lean-to area on the far side of that -- east side of 15 the arena, and I'd almost bet you that it's lighting that 16 was installed over there. You got a lot of bay doors over 17 there. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Bay doors. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Bay doors. Bay light goes 20 with bay doors. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: New -- new bay lights. 22 Now, is this our first time we'd ever have bay lights over 23 there in that area? Or we're replacing them? 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We're not going to 25 figure it out. 5-12-03 112 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think we've pursued 2 this -- 3 MR. TOMLINSON: I talked to him this morning, 4 because I've been working on budget, and as of April, there 5 wasn't anything out of there -- out of the Major Repairs. 6 And I called and asked him if there were any more 7 expenditures to be made. So, I -- we estimate what the 8 annual expenditures are going to be, and that's what I -- 9 that's when I talked to him about the $5,000, and -- but I 10 didn't -- I didn't get any definite answer about what -- 11 what that was. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We -- 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, you know, the 14 impression out there in the community is that over the last 15 few years, we've budgeted money to keep the Ag Barn up and 16 didn't spend it, and there's just a whole lot of money there 17 somewhere. And Ms. Sovil looked all that up the other day, 18 and there's -- there's not a whole lot of money there 19 somewhere; maybe $15,000 or $18,000 underspent over the last 20 few years. So, that's why I called upon it. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: I know we spent almost 17 22 last year out of -- out of that line item. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. That's -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Because you don't get 25 major repairs for $17,000, so that's the misnomer. 5-12-03 113 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I move we approve 3 the -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Already did that. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Oh, we did? Oh, 6 that's right. We're -- 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion's been made and 8 seconded. And, any further discussion on a motion and 9 second to pay the bills? All in favor of the motion, 10 signify by raising your right hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Budget 15 amendments. 16 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. Number -- Budget 17 Amendment 1 is a request from the County Judge to transfer 18 $250 from the Telephone line item to Conferences. It's 19 for -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to 24 approve Budget Amendment Request Number 1. Any discussion? 25 All in favor, signify by raising your right hand. 5-12-03 114 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Budget 5 Amendment Request Number 2. 6 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 2 is a request from 7 Judge O'Dell to transfer $500 from Part-Time Salary line 8 item to Conferences, and I have a -- have a late bill I need 9 a hand check for payable to her -- her clerk, Betty Sevey, 10 for $190.71. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is the -- the budgeted 12 number is $1,000 for conferences, and that's for the Judge 13 and her -- 14 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- help? 16 MR. TOMLINSON: I think -- I think that -- 17 that all J.P.'s have a -- have a conference coming up before 18 the end of the year. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So -- 20 MR. TOMLINSON: So that's why she's asking 21 for the additional money. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Asking for additional 23 money, I see. Well, we have to get a handle on this. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I have the same 25 concern, is that all of a sudden, when you transfer money, 5-12-03 115 1 it's one item, but -- or area, but we try not to transfer 2 in. But in situations where duly elected officials -- they, 3 a lot of times, need certain training that -- you know, the 4 first year, and I'm thinking it's probably what that is, but 5 I don't want to get a precedent started that we're going to 6 start spending, you know, different amounts on training in 7 the conferences. So moved. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that 10 Budget Amendment Request Number 2 be approved. Any further 11 discussion or questions? All in favor, signify by raising 12 your right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll visit with J.P. 3 18 about this. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Budget Amendment Request 20 Number 3. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. This -- this request 22 is for the County Court at Law. We had transferred 23 $1,947.50 from Court-Appointed Attorneys in the 198th Court 24 to County Court at Law, and $2,476.88 from Court-Appointed 25 Attorneys to Court-Appointed Services for the 198th District 5-12-03 116 1 Court. I have two bills attached that I need hand checks 2 for. They're both to the same payee. It's Hanna Security & 3 Investigation. One is for $1,220.10, and the other is for 4 $533.78. The reason they're separate is they're for 5 separate cases. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that 9 Budget Amendment Request Number 3 be approved, and authorize 10 hand checks to Hanna Security & Investigation, and in the 11 sum of $1,220.10 and $533.78. Any discussion? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, I have a question. 13 Tommy, do you know the reason why the County Court at Law 14 has -- is, I guess, spending so much on court-appointed 15 attorneys this year versus other years? I mean, I don't 16 recall them running out of money generally. 17 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah, we went through that -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Last time? 19 MR. TOMLINSON: -- last time. There were 20 the -- it's -- Judge Dubose has been scheduled in that court 21 for Child Protective Services cases, and we estimate that 22 there's $9,000 to $10,000 that's related to those cases that 23 he didn't budget for. I've talked -- I visited with the 24 198th Court about using their Court-Appointed Attorneys fees 25 or line item until we get to the point that we have to 5-12-03 117 1 quit -- I mean, until we get that court through the year, 2 and that's fine. So, that's -- that's why I'm moving the 3 funds from -- from another court. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But why -- I guess I 5 understand the reason, but I don't understand why we are 6 spending so much more still. I mean, I know where it's 7 going to and what the reason is, but I don't understand why 8 we misbudgeted so far. 9 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, I think -- I think the 10 County Court at Law has had some -- some court-appointed 11 service bills, like investigators, and some cases that -- 12 that he didn't plan for. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. It's just 14 something that I think, during the budget process, we need 15 to really take a hard look at that. I don't know whether 16 they feel they need to appoint somebody -- 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If -- can I comment on 18 that? Even our Sheriff's Office monthly report, remember 19 last year when they changed the court-appointed attorneys? 20 You've only got 48 hours or 72 hours now to offer all these 21 guys, you know, whether or not they need attorneys. And 22 before, they used to do that at their first court hearing, 23 especially the County Court at Law. But under that unfunded 24 mandate-type deal the State came out with, we have to offer 25 them court-appointed attorneys or see if they're going to 5-12-03 118 1 need one before they ever go to court; it's right after they 2 get to jail. The J.P.'s have to go through a lot of new 3 forms that even we had to develop and pay for, okay, at the 4 Sheriff's Office that I'm paying for three new sets of forms 5 for magistration. This April's report was -- as far as 6 arrests, was 303 arrests during the month of April going 7 into the jail, and what that's doing is overburdening that 8 Court-Appointed Attorney budget because they're all getting 9 appointed attorneys before they even get offered a plea 10 bargain from the County Attorney. So, you're going to 11 triple what it's going to cost us in court-appointed 12 attorney fees over the next several years. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that's something 14 that we need to just track for the -- you know, a year from 15 now, really get with our elected officials, because I think 16 many of us feared this was going to happen, but we were 17 assured that it wasn't going to increase our budget, and try 18 to get that changed. I mean, I don't know if we'll have any 19 success. 20 MR. TOMLINSON: We've already increased the 21 budget by -- by the amount that -- that we received from the 22 State on Senate Bill 7. That -- those funds come quarterly, 23 and I don't remember the exact amount, but it's around 24 $6,000 a quarter. And once those funds come in for -- for 25 this quarter, then we can increase the budget -- or his 5-12-03 119 1 budget again for -- for that amount. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: So, maybe -- maybe the -- 4 maybe that money will -- will, you know, get him through -- 5 through the year. I also notice that -- that the 6 Court-Appointed Attorneys line item in the Juvenile budget 7 is doubtful that it will make the year. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Even with -- even with the 10 State money that comes in under Senate Bill 7 to kind of 11 prop us up for these additional requirements, the 12 requirement that you appoint those lawyers early, that alone 13 is creating a tremendous amount of time generated by these 14 court-appointed attorneys that you got to pay them for. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I understand that, but 16 I'm -- yeah. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: They've -- the prisoner -- the 18 accused has the right. Once that attorney is appointed, 19 then the attorney has an obligation to forthwith confer with 20 his client. And, of course, whose nickel is that on? You 21 got it. So, it's -- even with that additional State money, 22 it's not going to be enough to stretch by a long shot. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just think the more we 24 track it, maybe we can -- 'cause it's -- the whole -- how 25 they told it, anyway, was it was going to save money because 5-12-03 120 1 everything gets -- 2 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, this -- this will be 3 our first full year through that process, so -- but, you 4 know, so by the end of this fiscal year, maybe we ought to 5 have a better handle on -- on what that -- that legislation 6 really did to us. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. And then track 8 next year, and then we can try to -- 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: How are the fee 10 rates set? Who sets the rate? 11 MR. TOMLINSON: We had -- we had this issue 12 of the judges of the county submitted a plan to -- to the 13 Office of Court Administration. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Correct. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: And in that plan, it states 16 what the hourly rate will be. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Submit that plan to 18 who? 19 MR. TOMLINSON: The Office of Court 20 Administration. It's a State agency. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: You got to submit a plan to 22 even be eligible to get any of that money. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: Right. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Indigent Defense Plan. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, once that's 5-12-03 121 1 done, then every attorney that participates in this program 2 gets the same hourly rate? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: That's correct. 4 MS. SOVIL: No. County Court gets less, and 5 Juvenile court gets less. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Than your district and 7 federal. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: But the rate is specified in 9 the Indigent Defense Plan. 10 MS. SOVIL: At $50 and $75. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Upstairs is $70 or $75. 12 MS. SOVIL: $75. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: $75, okay. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If it's a capital 15 murder, it's a whole lot different again, I think, in that 16 plan. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Did we have a motion on 18 this one? 19 MS. SOVIL: We have a motion. No vote. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further discussion? All 21 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Budget 5-12-03 122 1 Amendment Request Number 4. 2 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 4 is for the District 3 Clerk, and we're requesting a transfer of $190.53 from 4 Capital Outlay in Nondepartmental to Capital Outlay in -- in 5 the District Clerk's budget for -- it's for replacement of a 6 1995 computer. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I move we approve. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further discussion? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Has this computer been 13 purchased and it's in service? 14 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes, it is. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So we're purchasing 16 things without having money on hand to purchase them, huh? 17 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, she had everything -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just joking. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: It was in the budget. I 20 mean, it's in the 409 budget for replacements. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But we do that. We 22 buy things in this county without having money in the budget 23 to buy it. We do that. Here's one. That's all I'm saying. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further discussion or 25 questions? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 5-12-03 123 1 your right hand. 2 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 4 (No response.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Now we have the 7 money. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now we have the money 9 to buy it. 10 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. Number 5 is a request 11 from the County Clerk to transfer $141.34 from Operating 12 Equipment to Notices and Replats. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good lord. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to 17 approve Budget Amendment Request Number 5. Any discussion 18 or questions? All in favor of the motion, signify by 19 raising your right hand. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Budget 24 Amendment Request Number 6. 25 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 6 is from Judge 5-12-03 124 1 Elliott to transfer $82 from Books, Publications, and Dues 2 to Part-Time Salary. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion's been made and 6 seconded that Budget Amendment Request Number 6 be approved. 7 Any further discussion or questions? All in favor of the 8 motion signify by raising your right hand. 9 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. 13 MR. TOMLINSON: Still have one more. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Pardon? 15 MR. TOMLINSON: Still have one more, about 16 the Road and Bridge check for the -- 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh. 18 MS. SOVIL: $10,000. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: -- $10,000. I have a -- a 20 request from Road and Bridge to transfer $10,500 out of 21 Worker's Comp into Contract Fees. I have a -- a late bill 22 with a -- need a hand check for $500 to Salem Pipe and 23 Steel, and it's for the balance of the $10,500 expenditure 24 for railroad flat car for Hermann Sons Crossing. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No question about the 5-12-03 125 1 expenditure. It's where the funds come from to pay for the 2 expenditure. Coming out of Workmen's Comp? 3 MR. TOMLINSON: That's their request. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's their request. 5 Where was the check -- where did it come out of when we 6 wrote the check? Or has it been coded yet? 7 MR. TOMLINSON: It's been coded. We wrote 8 the -- we wrote the check on Tuesday. 9 MS. SOVIL: Last week. 10 MR. TOMLINSON: Was it last week? Okay. 11 Last -- the end of last week. I'd have to research that 12 one, 'cause -- cause I don't remember where -- I don't 13 remember what line item we charged. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Contract Services? Or 15 are they supposed to take it out of reserves? 16 MR. TOMLINSON: We did charge -- we did 17 charge Contract Fees. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Contract Fees. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: Ten -- 15-611 -- no, we 20 didn't. 611-664, that's what we charged. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd rather, you know -- 22 MR. TOMLINSON: That's what's on the check. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- it came out of the 24 Contract Fees. 25 MS. SOVIL: 664? 5-12-03 126 1 MR. TOMLINSON: 664 is what it's charged to. 2 MS. SOVIL: No such thing. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The whole $10,000? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: $10,000. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, the whole $10,500, 6 whatever it was, the full amount. 7 MR. TOMLINSON: I know it came -- that's the 8 RTS line item. 9 MS. SOVIL: Who? 10 MR. TOMLINSON: It was RTS line item. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's RTS? 12 MR. TOMLINSON: It's for RCS, I mean. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, RCS? 14 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah, expenditure for RCS. 15 MS. SOVIL: Oh, that's that grant. 16 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: That's a $40,000 item? 18 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. That's where it came 19 from. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That was the -- that's 21 floods? 22 MR. TOMLINSON: But that was for the flood. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, to me, that's the 24 appropriate spot for it to come out of. I mean, and if 25 there's additional -- and there may be additional -- 5-12-03 127 1 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, that's my opinion too, 2 Commissioner, but we have differences of opinion with Road 3 and Bridge. That's why it came out of here originally, 4 'cause I thought that's where it -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Leave it where it is 6 until Road and Bridge explains why they want to make the 7 change. I mean, if it's flood-related, it should come out 8 of the flood line item. If they want to -- if there's 9 additional funds that they need in that flood line item, and 10 they want to transfer it out of Worker's Comp, to me, it -- 11 that's a separate issue. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, that's -- those 13 expenditures in that line item we've already made, anyway. 14 County's already paid those. So, the -- their argument was 15 that we haven't -- that they have not requested 16 reimbursement from RCS yet. But I -- and another argument 17 was that they wanted to keep those expenditures separate, 18 but I don't see that that's a problem. I mean, I think 19 that -- that the $10,000 logically comes from that line 20 item. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. Okay. Leave it 22 the way it is. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you have a motion? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not making a motion. 25 MR. TOMLINSON: We need to deal with the 5-12-03 128 1 $500, because there was -- they thought that it was going at 2 $10,000. In reality, it was $10,500, so we need to -- we 3 need to write a hand check for $500, and determine where 4 that's to come from also. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion to 6 authorize a hand check in the amount of $500 to Salem -- 7 MR. TOMLINSON: It's an RCS expenditure. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Pipe and Steel. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Pipe and Steel. 10 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah, right. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The funds to come out of 12 the same account as the $10,000. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that 15 the sum of $500 be paid to Salem Pipe and Steel for the 16 railroad flat car, and the money to be charged against the 17 RCS account, which is the same account that the $10,000 18 payment for the flat car came out of. Any further 19 discussions? All in favor, signify by raising your right 20 hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You'll let them know? 5-12-03 129 1 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay, sure will. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: You got another one there? 3 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, I guess you'd classify 4 this as a late bill, but under Order 27747 -- court order, 5 the Court agreed to pay City of Ingram $17,500 for repairs 6 on the Indian Creek Dam structure. However, we -- we failed 7 to budget that in -- in Flood Control budget, and that's -- 8 that's where the money was to be budgeted. So, we -- I 9 guess we have maybe two options. One is to increase that 10 budget now, or actually wait till October. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: To refresh the Court's 12 recollection, this action was taken, I believe, in September 13 of last year, the infamous Indian Creek bridge. The Court 14 directed that this year's budget contain $17,500 in Flood 15 Control for the purpose of paying that amount to the City of 16 Ingram. And, needless to say, we haven't got there. We 17 have executed and delivered a quitclaim deed to the City of 18 Ingram, and they had the audacity to ask the impertinent 19 question of, "Where's the money?" 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I knew this was going 21 to happen. One of my favorite things. Well, I'm -- when 22 this whole thing started, I was against it, and I'm still 23 against it. I think it's dumb for us to give away property 24 and then give them a handful of money to fix it with. That 25 doesn't compute, to me. However, we need to take care of 5-12-03 130 1 it. Now, are we talking about Fund 10? 2 MR. TOMLINSON: No, we're talking about the 3 Flood Control. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Flood Control. Fund 5 50? 6 MR. TOMLINSON: 22. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 22, thank you. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How much is in there? 9 MR. TOMLINSON: There's over a hundred 10 thousand in there. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do we declare an 12 emergency? We don't declare an emergency on -- 13 MS. SOVIL: Yes. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do we need to? 15 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what I'm in 17 favor of doing, is -- is going into that fund and coughing 18 up the 17,5 and get it over with. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Bite the bullet and be done, 20 huh? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: If you make that 23 motion, I'll second it. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move that we declare 25 an emergency and go into Fund 22 for the $17,500 to pay 5-12-03 131 1 something -- to give to the City of Ingram for the Indian 2 Creek Bridge project, or -- 3 MR. TOMLINSON: For repairs, is what it's 4 for. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: For repairs. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: As per the existing court 7 order? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir, whatever 9 that number was. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'll second. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion's been made and 12 seconded to pay the sum of $17,500, charge it to Fund 22, 13 payable to City of Ingram, that an emergency be declared in 14 order to authorize the same. Any further discussion? 15 MS. SOVIL: Authorize a hand check. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, it's probably a little 17 overdue. Last September. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: And that -- and authorize a 20 hand check to the City of Ingram for $17,500, Buster? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All in favor of the motion, 25 signify by raising your right hand. 5-12-03 132 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 (Discussion off the record.) 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I was just going to 6 comment, I don't see why we have to do a hand check. They 7 can wait a couple of weeks until the check -- 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Could wait till 9 September. That's a whole year. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Where does that bring 11 us to? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: To a close. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: No, no, no, we're not there 14 yet. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Fried chicken. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: No, we're not there yet. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, should we tell 18 Constable Ayala what we did with his item? 'Cause he's 19 sitting back there thinking he's going to be heard, and 20 we've already passed over him. 21 MR. AYALA: I'm late. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Huh? 23 MR. AYALA: I'm late. I'm sorry; I 24 apologize. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's already -- 5-12-03 133 1 we've already run the train past your station. Coming back 2 in two weeks; put it back on. 3 MR. AYALA: Okay. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. That took care of the 5 late bills. Monthly reports. I have before me monthly 6 reports from the County Clerk, from the Sheriff, Justice of 7 the Peace Precinct 3, and Justice of the Peace Precinct 4. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move acceptance. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: As presented? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And approval as 11 presented. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion's been made and 14 seconded that monthly reports as presented by the County 15 Clerk, Sheriff, Justice of the Peace Precinct 3, and Justice 16 of the Peace Precinct 4 be approved as presented. Any 17 further discussion? All in favor, signify by raising your 18 right hand. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Okay. 23 Now, at the tail end of the -- we have information matters, 24 reports from Commissioners. Do you have anything, 25 Commissioner Nicholson? 5-12-03 134 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No, sir. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir, I do not at 3 this time. Thank you. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: The floor is yours, 5 Commissioner Williams. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have two items. 7 I'll try to make them short, because I know Buster's hungry. 8 The good news is that we have been awarded another $250,000 9 Community Development grant to continue the sewer project on 10 Ranchero Road; specifically, for households on Ranchero 11 Road, which would begin at Highway 16 and work its way down 12 toward the Nimitz School. This one is for funding in the 13 program year 2004, so that boosts our total for that sewer 14 project to a million dollars. We still have one left in the 15 conduit, and the Grantworks folks tell me that we should be 16 hearing about that -- that one within the next month or so. 17 The second item has to do with Rural Transportation. And no 18 sooner had the ink dried on the letter you sent to AACOG 19 putting me on that Rural Transportation Advisory Committee 20 than I got involved in meetings between AACOG and Dietert 21 Senior Center with respect to the Dietert folks' concerns 22 that they were losing money on rural transportation, 23 particularly in Kerr County. And, as you know, Dietert 24 serves essentially the seniors; that's where it all started, 25 serving the seniors. But they -- they get funding from two 5-12-03 135 1 separate sources; seniors' money, which is allocated for 2 transporting seniors, and from the 5311, I believe it is, 3 the transportation, which in general is for anybody in Kerr 4 County who needs transportation, and they are obligated to 5 serve those needs. 6 This all came about in terms of Dietert 7 taking a look at its funding sources and what it believes 8 it's spending on the programs, and they are asserting that 9 over the last three years, they've lost about $180,000. 10 This came about as a result of discussions about who's going 11 to take occupancy of the new intermodal transportation 12 facility on Schreiner Avenue. And I have to -- I have to 13 agree with Dietert that the contract that was being 14 forwarded to them for signature -- if it originated with 15 TexDOT, comes through AACOG. I would -- if I were on that 16 board, I wouldn't authorize signature of it either. So, 17 there are a lot of concerns about that. Bottom line is that 18 Dietert, after having put up $150,000, I think -- I believe 19 it was 120 -- either $120,000 or $150,000 as their part of 20 the match for the 800-some-odd thousand dollar TexDOT grant 21 to build that facility, believes that it can no longer 22 sustain a rural transportation because of the -- the 23 bleeding of its funds, which they honestly believe are 24 supposed to be used for seniors' activities and so forth, 25 and not transportation. 5-12-03 136 1 So, the transportation subcommittee met with 2 TexDOT, AACOG, and I was present in that meeting. After 3 having sent a letter to AACOG indicating they would not sign 4 that contract, and effectively they would not take occupancy 5 of that building, move its -- move their transportation unit 6 over there, because it was unclear as to who's going to pick 7 up the tab for maintenance and utilities and so forth, and 8 it's really -- it really is a bowl of spaghetti. Bottom 9 line is, more than likely Dietert will get out of the 10 transportation business in Kerr County. And a phone call I 11 had from -- on Friday from Kendall County Commissioner John 12 Kight, who is the chair of the Transportation Advisory 13 Committee, there seems to be some thought that -- that AACOG 14 will restructure the transportation -- rural transportation 15 program and put Kerr, Kendall, Gillespie, and maybe a couple 16 other counties together and take over that rural 17 transportation responsibility, and will more than likely 18 operate it out of that facility on Schreiner Street. So, I 19 just want the Court to know. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: AACOG would take it 21 over? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. That's not the 23 first time, as you know, that AACOG has taken over programs. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not always a bad 25 thing. 5-12-03 137 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, I just wanted to 2 bring you up to date. Dietert more than likely will go 3 through the end of its contract year, which will be 4 September, and would not seek to renew its contract. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll be darned. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's all I got. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just briefly, O.S.S.F., 9 last -- last week, Dave? Last week, Dave and I met with the 10 representatives from U.G.R.A.'s Board. They do the 11 committee meeting, set up and look at where we're going with 12 this. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't see any 14 bruises on either one of you. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It was a -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You okay? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- you know, a good 18 meeting, I'd say. We got a lot of issues on the table. And 19 I think just the -- you know, I don't want to go too far, 20 'cause I think nothing was decided. I think the -- the -- 21 directionally, there's some food for thought for everyone. 22 Just going to come back to -- to this table. I didn't 23 understand the actual rules, but I think it's pretty 24 clear -- and Dave can disagree if I don't state these things 25 correctly -- real estate transfers are about dead in Kerr 5-12-03 138 1 County. I think there is discussion -- and I don't want to 2 put any more than discussion -- about two other things 3 possibly. One is the possibility of some sort of a -- a way 4 to get to a long-term -- all septic systems licensed in the 5 county. You know, it's very broad. 6 And then also there was some discussion 7 related to the elimination of the 10-acre acreage exemption 8 in Kerr County, now that we -- or in state law right now, or 9 the state rules. That's kind of what we're talking about. 10 I think there's an agreement as to -- to -- from all four of 11 us that we want to keep -- you know, we want something that 12 is workable that both U.G.R.A. Board and the Court agreed is 13 a good set of rules for the county. And I think that 14 there's a, you know, desire, obviously, to protect -- the 15 goal being to protect the water resources of Kerr County, 16 both ground and surface. And I think we're going in that 17 direction. I think there's -- we also looked at some other 18 options of just basically adopting state law or state rules 19 as they are, which, incidentally, most of the counties 20 around us are not doing. But adopt state rules just as they 21 are, and really beef up the enforcement side of it, which 22 would probably cost the County and/or U.G.R.A. money. 23 And also there was some discussion on the 24 cost side about trying to figure out a way to provide 25 financial assistance to the lower economic people that have 5-12-03 139 1 septic problems. That the big problem that they have is not 2 that they don't want to fix their bad, failing systems; it's 3 that they can't afford to fix them. And we're trying to 4 figure up some sort of a funding mechanism, and maybe that 5 along with a long-range licensing or something like that may 6 be a way to offer a three-year period of -- some kind of a 7 period, anyway, to -- you know, to upgrade the systems. 8 Because it was -- I think I tend to agree; I think we all 9 agree that no one wants a failing system in their back yard. 10 I mean, they're there primarily because they can't afford to 11 do anything else. So, that's kind of what we discussed. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Did you indicate that most of 13 the surrounding counties do not follow the basic state law 14 on those systems? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think I know one 16 county, and there is -- we're told, I'm sure it's accurate, 17 that Kimble County is the only county around us that has a 18 real estate transfer rule. And the other counties have all 19 eliminated the acreage exemption, surrounding us. Isn't 20 that -- wasn't that what we were told? 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't recall. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I thought that was it, 23 but I know Kimball County has a real estate transfer law. 24 Theirs is -- I don't know if they enforce it or not, but 25 theirs is pretty much if you transfer, you upgrade to a 5-12-03 140 1 licensed system, period. Now, I don't know what Stuart 2 said, but all the other -- I believe all the other 3 surrounding counties no longer have that acreage exemption. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think we do plan 5 to and we need to find out a lot more about what similarly 6 situated counties are doing with O.S.S.F. So, I -- I want 7 to make those contacts and get as much information as we 8 can. We may have the -- the best way, or somebody else may 9 have a better way that we haven't thought of. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just a footnote to 11 the two Commissioners' reports. The Court asked me to put 12 together some numbers in terms of costs, and I'm about 13 two-thirds through that project, and I forgot the deadline, 14 but I'll have it done. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think, you know, 16 what -- the main reason for bringing -- even bringing it up, 17 because we see -- we don't even have a direction, I don't 18 think, of where that committee's going to, but everything is 19 on the table. I think we're, you know, looking at what is 20 truly the best way, you know, for Kerr County. I think this 21 is probably the first time that this was really done from 22 the standpoint of sitting back and looking at the rules. 23 And, I mean, not even looking at the details; kind of 24 looking more big picture as to what can be done, everything 25 from the existing rules and enforcement, changing 5-12-03 141 1 enforcement strategies to modifying maybe some areas, maybe 2 going to a licensed -- more of a licensed system, long-term. 3 There's lots of things that are interesting. I mean, by 4 some numbers we got recently, it doesn't appear that there 5 are that many unlicensed systems in the county; maybe 6 15 percent. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: One key learning for 8 me was the -- those failing systems that go to the 9 enforcement stage, there's been something like maybe 18 in 10 the last two years. The answer to the question of why 11 enforcement was required, the answer was because they can't 12 afford to fix their systems. Not 'cause they're challenging 13 the rules, challenging the law or anything like that. Their 14 system's broke and they don't have any money to fix it. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And it's based on an 16 average $3,000 to $5,000 to fix a system. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I know of several 18 situations at least that way. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And there are -- you 20 know, and there's no -- I mean, it's a small number, but it 21 is a health hazard where they are -- where they do exist. I 22 mean -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And you're not talking 24 about just a conventional system? They could be the 25 aerobic -- 5-12-03 142 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All the above? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It depends. Whatever, 4 you know, Stuart is saying is the system that they need in 5 that location. And -- but what they -- some of these people 6 really have -- they're in bad shape. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, my aerobic 8 system is about to break me. I am not joking one bit. That 9 damn thing is expensive. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, that's -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Little box, I've spent 12 300 bucks this week. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The people -- the ones we 14 were looking at are -- 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How long will that 16 last you? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How long will it last 18 me? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Till it breaks again. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Next week something 21 else will break. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I thought you were 23 talking about -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, but the -- the ones 25 that are waiting for -- or pending down basically in the 5-12-03 143 1 judicial side right now, whether we should go through 2 enforcement or not, they're basically cesspools. You can't 3 call that -- there's no system there. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They need some help. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, and they cannot 6 afford -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How do you go about 8 doing that? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's -- you know, and 10 that's a big question. But it's a -- you know, if you 11 really -- you know, if the County and U.G.R.A. both 12 committed to fixing the problem, that's part of the problem. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: More than anything else. 15 So -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Government handout, 17 huh? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just got a quarter of 19 a million. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maybe government -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Assistance. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- assistance. But, 23 anyway -- but interesting, the -- I don't think any of us at 24 the meeting felt we should give them the system. It was 25 that -- maybe some kind of a cost share. 5-12-03 144 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't even know if they 3 can even afford that, based on some of them. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's hard to solve. 5 It won't do them any good to put them in jail. That will -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Situation will still 8 be there. You can't -- I don't think we can condemn your 9 house. There's just no easy solution. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Was there any mention made, 11 something similar to a paving or curb lien, where they put 12 you on a payout plan; in the meantime, they got a -- got a 13 lien on your property? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We talked a little bit 15 about some mechanism of the County funding it; they pay us 16 back over time. That was discussed, or some way -- maybe 17 some mechanism where we could guarantee a loan, you know. I 18 don't know -- you know, I don't know what -- how you do it. 19 But bottom line is -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: We already did that on our 21 health deal. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. Well, I mean, the 23 reality is, it's probably going to take tax dollars to get 24 some of these systems fixed. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 5-12-03 145 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And, you know, how you do 2 that is -- it's a real problem. I have a real problem with, 3 you know, using tax dollars for that purpose, but I really 4 don't know what else you do. You can't take their property 5 and put them the jail. It costs us more money. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, that's counter- 7 productive. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The ultimate 9 solution is to get everybody on sewer, and I think about 10 rural electrification. If you lived out in the country, you 11 couldn't afford to run electric out there. If the 12 government -- federal government actually hadn't stepped in, 13 we probably wouldn't have electricity out there today. So, 14 someday, somebody's going to have to bite the bullet and get 15 rid of septic as a way of disposing of the waste. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: So, that's all you got? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Only thing I've got is my 19 illustrious HIPAA committee that was appointed has gone 20 around -- I probably need to get them gathered up. We've 21 been presented with some contracts or agreements concerning 22 HIPAA and the sharing of information and handling of 23 information, so probably looking at maybe 11 o'clock in the 24 morning, or as an alternative to that, it could be, like, 25 10 o'clock on Wednesday morning. 5-12-03 146 1 MS. SOVIL: Are you going to invite 2 Mr. Rothwell? He's part of the committee. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, yeah. He's on the 4 committee. He's -- 5 MS. SOVIL: He's from San Antonio, so I would 6 say Wednesday morning rather than tomorrow. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Would you see if you can kind 8 of get that nailed down? 9 MS. SOVIL: Wednesday at 10:00? 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: When do you think 11 elected officials can expect your letter of guidance and 12 that coming out about the budget? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I understand I just got 14 my -- a portion of my longevity information last Friday. I 15 still don't have all of that. That, obviously, is a major 16 plug into it that both the elected officials and department 17 heads and myself need to know. There may be some questions 18 about whether or not people are included that shouldn't be 19 or are not included that should be. It's already been 20 indicated that there may have been at least one that was 21 missed last year, and they got somebody that's been going on 22 here for better than half the year that's not getting paid 23 what they may be entitled to be paid, and going to have to 24 figure out how to handle that. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You also, as -- well, 5-12-03 147 1 no, Buster was appointed, and I know y'all appointed 2 different Commissioners different departments for liaisons. 3 Do you want me getting with Buster prior to getting with you 4 and also working on our budget part? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not on the budget 6 issues. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I think you'd have a hard time 8 finding Buster with a search warrant on that issue, wouldn't 9 you? 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I got a room out there 11 he can stay in as long as I need him. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've always wondered 13 about those ankle things. But, no, for budget, that's his 14 job under the constitution. We have an employee that's not 15 getting paid what we promised to pay him? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That's my understanding. I've 17 not taken a look at the specific dates, but I was advised of 18 that last year; there was someone that was due a longevity, 19 and for this -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The boss failed to get 21 that done? Or we failed to get that done? 22 MS. SOVIL: Both. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Both? But the boss 24 failed to come and tell us to get it done? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All that is out of the 5-12-03 148 1 personnel and payroll, and that's -- that's where I'm trying 2 to get my information, 'cause I think that's the -- that's 3 the bottom line info that we need to work from. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir, an automatic 5 thing. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That really ticks me 8 off. I don't like that. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, I personally -- I 10 think the way the Judge is doing it this year, where the 11 department head actually has to also figure the longevities 12 and the salaries and come up with that dollar amount, where 13 years before we didn't have anything to do with that; that 14 was all done separate, I think that will help us and the 15 department heads make sure they don't have anything -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, are you going 17 to -- are you planning to have any kind of a -- I guess an 18 early meeting, either with the Commissioners, to kind of -- 19 seems to me that it would be helpful to you and to the 20 Commissioners if we had kind of a -- in this early part of 21 the process, a meeting with you to kind of go over where we 22 stand. 'Cause we're going to be the ones that have to vote 23 on it down the road, and if you're going -- if you think 24 that, you know, we need an increases in Road and Bridge and 25 I think we need an increase in Rusty's area, we're going to 5-12-03 149 1 end up with a freight train head-to-head. Whereas, you 2 know, some preliminary -- just discussions in general, 3 nothing detailed, to me would be helpful. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I think my obligation is 5 to throw the first budget on the table, the first overall 6 budget. And then, you know, what -- what y'all do about 7 jumping up and down on it or carving it up or whatever, you 8 know, that's your choosing. But my plan was to put together 9 a tentative budget and work one-on-one with the elected 10 officials and department heads on each of their respective 11 portions. And then, based upon that -- or, you know, I 12 may -- I may decide that, you know, they've taken a hard 13 right turn and they ought to take a left. But I'm going to 14 lay in front of you what -- where my budget is. And, rather 15 than have two different runs at the same thing, I'm trying 16 to cut out one of those. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, okay. So, can you 18 explain, then, your process beyond that? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. Once I -- once I put 20 it all together, what I think is the -- is the good 21 beginning point from the entire budget, then I'm going to 22 throw it on the table, and -- and you guys can just do 23 whatever. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, but, I mean, were 25 you planning to have, you know, budget workshops to go over 5-12-03 150 1 it with each department? Or -- or kind of -- I mean, how 2 are you -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm going to be working with 4 them one-on-one. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess it puts -- in my 6 opinion, it puts me at a severe disadvantage if I'm not 7 going to have the opportunity -- you're saying that we 8 should do it one-on-one, talk to each elected official. I 9 don't see -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: That's what I'll do. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I know that's what you're 12 going to do, but it puts me at a disadvantage for me to get 13 -- try to do anything. You're going to give me a budget, 14 and I don't -- I only go through it, don't look at it, so 15 it's going to take us a lot of scheduling time for me to 16 say, okay, I've got a question here on this item in Rusty's 17 budget on line -- or in the J.P. budget. And it's easier to 18 me if we have them come through so we can ask questions. I 19 don't know how the rest of the Commissioners feel. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I would like to have 21 some face time with all elected officials, department heads. 22 I'd like to have some time. And maybe this is 'cause I'm a 23 freshman and I don't know how the process works. I'd like 24 to have some time with you guys to talk about philosophy or 25 strategy, what -- what's the appropriate role that the 5-12-03 151 1 County pay for things, providing services. Not hours, but 2 at least a few minutes of discussion about those kind of 3 things. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that's a good 5 point. What Jonathan's saying, too, Judge, in the 6 one-on-one session that you have with the Sheriff or 7 District Clerk or whomever, it will produce -- it will 8 produce a decision on your part to make up your initial 9 budget based on what they say or what they presented to you, 10 but it doesn't give us any benefit of their arguments as to 11 why they wanted something and you may have denied it in your 12 original budget. We don't know the details of that, unless 13 you're prepared to tell us all the details. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me make a motion. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: What they will initially be -- 16 be requesting will be on a -- will be on a separate 17 document. They'll make their own. I'll make my own. But 18 all of that information as to what their initial request was 19 and what -- what I initially plugged in for them, that 20 information will be available. All that information will be 21 available. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the key. I 23 think -- I really think the Judge is probably right, that, 24 you know, he can do anything he wants to in there, as long 25 as we get to see the original request numbers, and -- and 5-12-03 152 1 that -- and then we -- we can whack on it all we want after 2 that. He simply presents it. We can see what he's done 3 with it, compared to the original request. That's all -- 4 that's all I ask for, is the original request. He can do 5 anything he wants to with it. And then we have the right 6 and authority to go back and do anything we want to. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You understand that I 8 don't disagree with that; I think that's fine. My only 9 point was that we don't have the benefit of the arguments 10 that may have been presented by the department head. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. We can 12 rehash that argument, though, if we want. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: And I think you'll spend less 14 time rehashing those few arguments than if you did this face 15 time with every one of them that I'm going to be doing. And 16 that's what I'm trying to do, is save some time. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I want to hear Rusty 18 come in here and say, "Here's how much money I need and 19 why," so that I'll have some -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm not sure you do 21 want to hear that. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let me pick on 23 somebody else. So I'll have some confidence that it's a 24 legitimate need and that I can enforce it or not. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- I mean, you 5-12-03 153 1 know, we'll have to see how -- I mean, I'm certainly open to 2 whatever process -- whatever the Judge, you know, has. But 3 when it gets into long-range planning -- and we talked about 4 cars today. That was a plan that was presented during the 5 budget process when Rusty was first elected. If that 6 conversation doesn't take place before the full Court, how's 7 the Court going to know what the plan is? I mean, and you 8 can't tell that by looking at numbers, necessarily. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's true. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, some of this -- 11 and we've got into long-range planning for virtually every 12 department on salaries and -- I mean, not on salaries; on 13 personnel and equipment and computer purchases and some of 14 that stuff. And I -- I hate to see us -- or, you know -- 15 well, and I guess the other option is we can just call 16 workshops. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You know, which I -- I 19 agree with Dave; I'd like to have them here, because I think 20 you -- it is beneficial to -- even though it's boring and 21 not a whole lot seems to be accomplished, I think it is very 22 beneficial to meet with each department head, elected 23 official. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I would schedule 25 them 30 minutes apart or 15, whatever, and let them come 5-12-03 154 1 through here and tell us what they want us to hear. It's 2 the opportunity for them to educate us about why they need 3 what they do. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: As part of the 5 learning curve, you -- we find out the nuances of their 6 department. That's the only way you find them out. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Or you're trying to 8 whittle down on it. We may say you need more money, you 9 ought to be doing this. Not likely, but -- 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: On that, Judge, you're 11 going to get with each department head before you make your 12 budget, though, correct? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Before I make any final 14 overall budget, yes. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. That you're going 16 to submit to the Court. Then the only thing I would -- 17 because there will be differences. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure, there's going to be. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You'll give the 20 department heads the opportunity, then, after he makes his 21 budget -- you'll have his and you'll have a copy of ours -- 22 give us the opportunity, 30 minutes or whatever, to come in 23 and explain the areas that we couldn't agree upon? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: To where we can explain 5-12-03 155 1 it to the whole Court. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: I think, overall, we'll end up 3 saving time, rather than each and every elected official and 4 department head coming in and going through each line item 5 all the way to the end. I dare say that probably -- I don't 6 know; this is just a -- a way -- probably 80 percent or more 7 is going to be resolved in one-on-one between myself and 8 that particular elected official or department head. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But then they -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: And the base information is 11 going to be there laid in front of you guys so that you can 12 see what they requested up front, initially. You'll see 13 what was initially plugged in, and you'll see what I'm 14 suggesting or recommending as -- as the figure that's 15 presently in the budget -- or the proposed budget. And 16 then, if there are two or three or whatever number of those 17 items you want to -- you want to talk to the elected 18 official about, whatnot, give workshops or whatever, yeah, 19 that's fine. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think I -- I like the 21 process better, and I think it will be more productive use 22 of our time, but I'll be surprised if we save 80 percent of 23 the time. I'd probably say 50 percent of the time. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: No, no, I'm talking about 25 80 percent of the items on the budget. 5-12-03 156 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: We're probably going to end up 3 having resolved by the time it comes time to -- instead of 4 hassling about it. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Most of them you don't -- 6 most of them are pretty -- 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Even if you and I come 8 to an agreement and you submit the budget, they will still 9 have the opportunity to -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, yeah. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- question that 12 agreement. If you want to cut it more, give me more. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Absolutely. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Back to Commissioner 15 Nicholson's concern -- 16 MS. SOVIL: Well, the biggest complaint that 17 I've ever heard from any of the officials is that they come 18 before you in a workshop situation, and they never see 19 whether they got it or not until -- until the budget's on 20 file, and it's too late to argue about it at that point. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Commissioner Nicholson 23 is -- well, partially what he's talking about is the -- is 24 that, you know, of all the thousands of times we vote a 25 year, this is -- the budget is the one that counts. That's 5-12-03 157 1 the big one. And I'm going to -- I guarantee you, I'm going 2 to know what I'm voting on before I vote on it. And if 3 that's -- if that's having -- have Rusty Hierholzer in here 4 five days a week for two weeks, that's what it's going to 5 be, until we can figure out exactly what it's all about. 6 So, I'm with you. I'm with you. We'll have -- we'll have 7 all the face time we want. More than we want. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know how to 10 answer that question. Thea -- I think, somehow, you know, 11 if the -- when the District Clerk comes in and we all agree 12 on something, you have to let her know this is what we 13 agreed on, because when we adopt the budget, she will come 14 in here and say that -- that she didn't know that. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, yeah, and she will, 16 and I know that argument. But the reality is, they've got 17 to take the responsibility to go to the minutes and look at 18 it, 'cause they're all posted meetings when those were made, 19 and they can go to the County Clerk's office and find those 20 changes that were made along the way. And it's -- I don't 21 -- you get to a point that I don't think we can rerun the 22 budget every time we change a number. I mean -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: See how the new 24 scheme of things even changes that. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 5-12-03 158 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think it can, because 2 what I'd like -- and I agree with what Thea was saying about 3 the other elected officials. When I walk out of here after 4 a workshop, after Pat presents his, I present mine, we all 5 come together and look at it, at that point, when I walk out 6 of here, I'd like to know what it is, you know, I'm going to 7 have that's filed, what it is I'm not going to have, to 8 where it's finished and not just -- we all talk about, well, 9 we'll look at this, we'll look at this. And then I never 10 know what it is until after my budget's been -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You can't know that until 12 after July. See, we get to a time -- we won't know -- we 13 don't know the final numbers coming in from the taxes until 14 July 30th. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And if we start the 17 process after July 30th, we'll never be done. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, we've got to start 19 now. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, I mean, it's -- a lot 21 of it's taken by advisement, and guessing -- based on some, 22 you know, guess. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Historical figures, 24 projections. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Projections from the 5-12-03 159 1 present budget. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But can we at least get 3 time in there after our meeting and such that we do come 4 through? If -- when y'all get those final numbers, if it's 5 going to change the department head's budget, can the 6 department head have the opportunity to come back in here 7 and talk to y'all about that before the change? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure. Just -- 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Could you at least let 10 us know what they're going to be? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Could we let these 12 employees go have lunch with their families and keep me from 13 starving to death? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I think we hit on that item of 15 significant priority. One of your most favorite things. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, this is one of 17 my significant priorities, one of my favorite things. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: I appreciate the input. Do we 19 have any more reports from any source? Any elected official 20 have any report they want to render? With nothing else to 21 come before us, I declare us adjourned. 22 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 12:31 p.m.) 23 - - - - - - - - - - 24 25 5-12-03 160 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 5 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 6 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 7 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 20th day of May, 2003. 8 9 10 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 11 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 12 Certified Shorthand Reporter 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 5-12-03