1 2 3 4 5 6 7 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 8 Workshop 9 Monday, May 19, 2003 10 9:00 a.m. 11 Commissioners' Courtroom 12 Kerr County Courthouse 13 Kerrville, Texas 14 15 16 17 18 PARKS AND RECREATION MASTER PLAN 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 DAVE NICHOLSON, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 On Monday, May 19, 2003, at 9:00 a.m., a workshop of 2 the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in the 3 Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville, 4 Texas, and the following proceedings were had in open court: 5 P R O C E E D I N G S 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. It's a bit after 9:00 7 on May the 19th, Monday, workshop posted for this date. 8 I'll call to order the workshop called for the purpose of 9 reviewing first draft revisions to the Kerr County Parks and 10 Recreation Master Plan. I believe this balloon was launched 11 at the request of Commissioner Williams. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I sent that balloon 13 right up in the air, Judge, and this can be as long or as 14 short as we want to make it, I guess, like all the rest of 15 them. But the purpose is to attempt to refresh our Master 16 Plan and attempt to shape for adoption -- permanent 17 adoption, hopefully, listing some priorities and things that 18 we'd like to have. And that's really what I'd like this 19 morning from my colleagues here, is your -- your questions, 20 if you have them, your comments, additions or subtractions 21 from the plan so we can make it better and get it done. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me see if I understand 23 correctly. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Here comes my helper. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I see. Here comes the heavy 5-19-03 workshop 3 1 lifter, huh? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Here comes the heavy 3 lifter. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: It's my understanding that for 5 the purpose of obtaining various and sundry grants or other 6 types of recognition that -- that may be desired, that there 7 must be a current plan in place, good, bad, or otherwise, 8 but there must be an officially adopted current plan in 9 place; is that correct? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's my 11 understanding, Judge. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Beyond that, it goes -- 13 you have to have what you're looking for in the plan. Like, 14 if you're going out for a grant for a walking trail, if you 15 don't have walking trails mentioned, you're not getting a 16 walking trail. So, I mean, it is important that -- you 17 know, that it's -- we try to have some idea as to where -- 18 what we're looking at in the future and have that mentioned 19 in the plan. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And that's one of the 21 -- that's an excellent point, Jon, and it's one of the 22 reasons for this. And you will note that in the priorities, 23 we're listing a -- an arts park, which is being developed on 24 our property at -- at the exhibit center grounds, 25 fairgrounds, and that has to be listed as something we'd 5-19-03 workshop 4 1 like to see developed or those folks will be powerless to go 2 out and find any money -- grant money. So, that's in there 3 as well. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Arts and Crafts Fair? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- the two entities I 8 know require this are Texas Parks and Wildlife and L.C.R.A. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The two principal 10 grantors of parks money. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Commissioner Letz' 12 comment about needing to have the specific details in here, 13 we found out firsthand with Parks and Wildlife in Austin; 14 they just kind of tossed us out of the office. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: First time around? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, boy, it was tough. 17 Very, very tough. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's a difficult process. 19 I don't envy anybody working on that side of the grant 20 process. It can be difficult with them. But, anyway -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Bill, I have a 22 specific question. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: On Page 12. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 5-19-03 workshop 5 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And don't get the 2 thought that I'm witch-hunting or anything. I'm just 3 simply -- I mean, it's a real, live question. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: In the goals and 6 objectives, that first one, what is -- what are your -- in 7 your mind, what is a festive grounds facility? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Festival. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Festival grounds 10 facility. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's -- that's what 12 we're -- what's being developed up above at the arts park by 13 the Arts and Crafts. But you may recall, there's been 14 several discussions throughout the years about the need for 15 a festival grounds where various and sundry outdoor-type 16 activities can be conducted in a nice, good setting, 17 well-grounded setting that has amenities and facilities and 18 so forth. For lack of a better word, I used that word. If 19 somebody has a better way to define it, then let's do that. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's fine. I just 21 wanted to make sure that I understood what it was. And 22 then, in the next part of the objectives, the revised 23 five-year master plan, the parks survey that you have here, 24 I notice -- let's see, the first line in this -- on this 25 document, "Continue surveying the recreational needs of Kerr 5-19-03 workshop 6 1 County citizens and prioritize them." I'm assuming that 2 this is -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're going to do 4 that. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- that. As I was 6 looking at that, I noticed that there were all the parks, 7 not just County-owned property, but the -- the State Parks 8 and wildlife facility out past Hunt -- I can't -- what's the 9 name of that thing? 10 MS. BURDITT: Wildlife Management. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wildlife Management 12 Area, whatever it is. I noticed it was on there, and all 13 the City parks, and -- and how does that relate to -- or 14 what -- how does that relate to this plan? And, more 15 specific, how does it relate to Kerr County parks system? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, it really is -- 17 it is an assessment or an inventory, if you will, of all the 18 various parks available to the people of Kerr County, even 19 though they may not be owned by Kerr County. And so, when 20 Sudie and I were doing this, we looked at the one that was 21 done, what, five, six, seven years ago. It, too, had a -- a 22 major inventory and a map that identified all the various 23 parks, even though they're not Kerr County-owned parks. And 24 so we went through and we thought of everything, and if we 25 thought of something we thought was missing, we added it. I 5-19-03 workshop 7 1 think Kerr Wildlife was one of them we added. It's just an 2 inventory, basically. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just used Kerr 4 Wildlife as an example. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that correct, 6 Sudie? That's what we did? 7 MS. BURDITT: Yes. And total answering of 8 that question, the National Recreation and Park Association 9 has a document that's called Recreation, Park, and Open 10 Space Standards and Guidelines, and we've used it in here 11 twice or three times as a source for documentation of the 12 quantity and type of space needed for recreation. The 13 citizen does not care who owns the recreation area. They're 14 looking for the quantity of space they need to do their 15 activity. And we also list the Little League fields and the 16 soccer fields and so forth, and even though they have their 17 own associations, they are public open space or 18 parks/recreation space for the citizens of the county, 19 whether they live in Ingram, Center Point, Kerrville, or -- 20 or out in the unincorporated areas. So, it does -- it 21 doesn't matter when you're adding up the acres or the types 22 of playgrounds, swimming pools, whatever in the county. 23 It's the total asset available to the citizen that you're 24 looking for. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Regardless of 5-19-03 workshop 8 1 ownership. 2 MS. BURDITT: Regardless of ownership. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And how does -- let's 4 pretend I'm Billy Bob Stewart and I'm a horseshoer, and I 5 understand the Commissioners Court's adopting a Kerr County 6 Park Plan. And I come into the courthouse and I say, 7 "Commissioner Williams, I'd like to see your park plan." 8 And I see this list, and I want to know how that relates to 9 Kerr County's Park Plan. Maybe -- I see what you're saying. 10 I see these parks and properties are inside Kerr County, but 11 I'm -- I'm referring to the government entity of Kerr County 12 that we're responsible for. 13 MS. BURDITT: And you think Billy Bob is 14 looking at it from where his county tax dollars are going? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where is it? Is it in 16 there? I mean, how does it relate to the Commissioners 17 Court responsibility? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, if you're going 19 to use -- use this as a presentation to L.C.R.A. or Texas 20 Parks and Wildlife, it serves the purpose that they state 21 that they want it to, as to what's available in Kerr County, 22 regardless of -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. It's one of 24 those, okay. That explained it. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we could even go 5-19-03 workshop 9 1 a little further on that. As an example, I don't know if 2 it's on -- at one point it was in the Flat Rock plan. 3 The -- if you're going to put a -- like, a walking trail in 4 Flat Rock, it got more points if it was going to connect to 5 a walking trail in the city. We didn't get the money for 6 either one of them -- well, I guess the City got some of 7 theirs. But, I mean, it shows the fact that they want to 8 see how the County facilities interact with the other 9 facilities in the county. And, like -- and if you -- you 10 know, like, if there's, you know, Little League fields right 11 there, well, they're not going to be real inclined, I don't 12 think, to give a grant for some other organization to build 13 a bunch of little -- little youth baseball fields, you know, 14 across the road from it. I mean, so they don't really care, 15 you know, from an inventory standpoint as to who owns it. 16 We care because of what we operate; where our financial, you 17 know, leanings go. But have I some comments if you're done. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm through. For a 19 while. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On that same page -- 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Uh-huh? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- in the first section, 23 the third dot is, "Acquire park lands for the development of 24 new recreation facilities." And then, on the objectives, 25 the third and fourth are -- one is identify lands and one is 5-19-03 workshop 10 1 acquire properties. I'm a little uncomfortable of -- I 2 mean, I don't see -- if somebody wants to donate property, I 3 can see that we -- that's something for us to consider, but 4 I just don't see, in the near future, us acquiring any more 5 park land, other than through -- possibly through donation. 6 I don't mind leaving them in here, but I think, just from a 7 -- a goals standpoint, I would want us to move "Acquire park 8 lands" to lower on that list, because when people look at 9 things -- at least when I look at things, the higher it is 10 on the list, the higher priority I think it has. And I 11 think that's a low priority item. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: All right. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And so I would say that 14 on both those items, to move them towards the bottom, 15 because I just don't see that, with our current budget 16 situation, that we're going to be out actively -- 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I'm sure, in 18 terms of budget -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But you're not saying 20 completely remove it? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. I don't mind them 22 being there. If somebody wants to donate, I think it's 23 something we want to look at. And the other -- kind of, you 24 know, I guess related to that, one thing that has been 25 floating around since way before I've been a Commissioner is 5-19-03 workshop 11 1 Tivy Mountain, and that is the -- that is one thing that I 2 would encourage, you know, the County and the City to try to 3 figure out and do something with. I mean, it's a beautiful 4 piece of property. It is suitable for a park-type setting, 5 if anyone can figure out who owns it. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I was just going to 7 ask that question. Do we know who owns it? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We don't, and I have 9 never really gone into that at great length. And the 10 current group of City Council, from the mayor on down, I 11 don't think they have -- it was the prior mayor and the 12 prior council that, you know, batted it around, trying to 13 figure out who owned it at one point. But it would be, I 14 think worthwhile to pursue that, because that is a piece of 15 property that somebody, City or County, would be nice to 16 develop. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, how would you 18 frame that? Work with the City to acquire Tivy Mountain for 19 development into a park or something like that? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would just like to 21 determine who owns it. I can't see it's that hard to find 22 out who owns a piece of property. I mean -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, in all of our 24 infinite wisdom, seems like we could just declare it ours 25 and let's go on. Let somebody else figure it out from that 5-19-03 workshop 12 1 point. We own it. Prove that we don't. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think, you know, 3 it's a -- it's a shame to let a piece of property like that 4 in the middle of town just be, you know, a cedar break. 5 Because -- 6 MS. SOVIL: Doesn't the City have it blocked 7 off right now? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. Yeah, they -- I 9 mean, the City clearly doesn't let anyone use it, other than 10 the Tivy High School; the seniors march up it. That's the 11 only function that I'm aware of that it's used for, is the 12 senior march up the road. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Who put the fence up? 14 City? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, the City. They 16 think they own it. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What is the City 18 doing, fencing off our property? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a good 20 question. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Sounds like an adverse 22 possession issue to me. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think a good goal of 24 the park plan would be -- you know, I wouldn't mind putting 25 it point-blank, you know, to determine to do something with 5-19-03 workshop 13 1 Tivy Mountain. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. We'll develop 3 a sentence and stick it in there on Page 12. You want -- in 4 addition to moving down under the goals, "Acquire park 5 lands," you wanted something likewise moved in the second 6 paragraph on objectives? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. I think -- I think 8 the items -- 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The fourth dot? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Third and fourth. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Third and fourth, 12 okay. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Identify and acquire. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I really don't see the 15 difference between the third and fourth. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, there's 17 probably not a lot of difference, but I think we picked up 18 the format from the previous plan, which were goals and 19 objectives being two paragraphs. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And one of the reasons it 21 was probably like this in the last plan is because there 22 was -- just before or right during the acquisition of the 23 property just to the east of Flat Rock Park, which is the 24 bigger part, that was really the reason for this park plan, 25 was development of Flat Rock. 5-19-03 workshop 14 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Anything else, 2 Jon? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Dave? Got something? 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't have any -- 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What can you tell us 7 about that big park at the dam out there? 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: An interesting point 9 that I don't think has much to do with what we do is that a 10 group of citizens there in Hunt got together, formed some 11 sort of an organization, and bought that property at the 12 corner of 1340 and 39; 4, 5 acres. It's been for sale for 13 quite a while. And the reason they bought it is to take it 14 out of the possibility of development. They bought it to 15 keep Hunt like -- like it is now. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Didn't we just read 17 about that recently? 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: May have. I didn't, 19 but I've talked to two or three of them. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that going to 21 remain in private ownership? Or -- 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think so. Nobody 23 came around and said, "We want to give this to you. Do you 24 want it?" So, I -- 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 5-19-03 workshop 15 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Of course, I presume 2 there's a cost to us if we take it. If we should take it, 3 it comes off the tax rolls, and it's a pretty valuable piece 4 of property. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So we don't want to 6 list it in the inventory. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No. Just to 8 reinforce what Commissioner Letz said, if we were 9 prioritizing the things we were going to spend money on for 10 the next year or two, unfortunately, I think this would come 11 down close to the bottom. It's going to have to be a 12 no-cost or low-cost item on the budget, I would guess. 13 That's all right now. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. Everybody 15 comfortable with the inventory going in? See anything that 16 needs to go in or come out? It's a pull-out sheet. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have something I'm not 18 sure about on the inventory. For better or worse, and just 19 outside of Comfort, but in Kerr County, there are two -- I 20 don't know what you call them -- rodeo arenas that are 21 private, but they're heavily used. They're ones -- they're 22 almost right on both sides of Hermann Sons Road. And it's 23 for -- I guess it's termed as a Mexican-style rodeo. I 24 don't -- which I've never been to. I know there's big 25 bunches of people that go. I don't know whether it needs to 5-19-03 workshop 16 1 even be here or not. It's recreation, but it's private. 2 MS. BURDITT: We didn't put anything that's 3 private. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 6 MS. BURDITT: We do need input in that sheet 7 on our holes. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Say again? 9 MS. BURDITT: We need input. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 11 MS. BURDITT: We need to know the acres in 12 those blank spaces and what the facilities are. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Ingram City 14 Park and Ingram Lake Park, Dave. Middle way down the -- 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Acreage count. 17 MS. BURDITT: And I need anything that's 18 there. Is there swings? Slides? 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: How accurate do you 20 need in terms of acreage? 21 MS. BURDITT: Close. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A seat-of-the-pants 23 estimate. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Close seat of the 25 pants. 5-19-03 workshop 17 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's close, isn't 2 it? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think that's pretty 4 close. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'll ask the City 6 Council on Ingram City Park, and I'll get with Road and 7 Bridge and we'll estimate Ingram Lake Park. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On Kerrville Little 9 League, -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- they have water 12 fountains. They have irrigation. 13 MS. BURDITT: Hang on. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Hold on a second. 15 They do have water fountains. And they have what, 16 irrigation? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Irrigation. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And then also, probably 20 should add the Comfort Little League. 21 MS. BURDITT: Is it located in -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's in Kerr County on 23 Highway 27. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Comfort Little 25 League. 5-19-03 workshop 18 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And -- 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Cypress Park. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- Comfort Youth Baseball 4 Association. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Say that again? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Comfort Youth Baseball. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We'll put it up there 8 near Cypress Park, okay? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That work? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's probably -- 12 MS. BURDITT: Is it leased from the County? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's owned by them. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Just inside of King's Salvage, 15 isn't it? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right across from Hermann 17 Sons Road. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What would be the 20 acreage? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Three. Three acres, I'd 22 say. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Three acres. 24 MS. BURDITT: Drinking water? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. Wastewater, yes. 5-19-03 workshop 19 1 Lighting, yes. Water fountains, yes. Parking, yes. 2 Restrooms, yes. Sports facilities, yes. That would be it. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Concessions? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Concessions, yes. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: It's got spectator seating, 6 too. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Spectator seating and 8 concessions. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do they have lighting? 11 They don't have lighting there. I think lighting -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Lighting's out? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. They don't have 14 any lights. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Did you say 16 restrooms? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They have restrooms. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 19 MS. BURDITT: Good. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Take out the 21 lighting, okay. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where is Elm Creek Park? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Over at the corner of Lois and 24 Methodist Encampment. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I was thinking Comfort -- 5-19-03 workshop 20 1 Center Point area. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where is Knapp Park? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Over across the river, I 4 think. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where the old Knapp 6 Crossing was? Is there a park over there? 7 MS. BURDITT: Mm-hmm, and boat ramps. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Public-owned? 9 MS. BURDITT: City of Kerrville. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Actually, it's on this side. 11 MS. BURDITT: Right above Catfish King, right 12 above -- what do we call that restaurant? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Right across from Walmart 14 where you go down the ramp, put in a boat. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then Richards 16 Park? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, boy. 18 MS. BURDITT: Off of -- over close to the 19 Salvation Army Lodge. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Really? And then 21 River Star Park? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's going to be 23 the new -- 24 MS. BURDITT: That's what the Arts 25 Foundation -- Texas Arts and Crafts Foundation is calling 5-19-03 workshop 21 1 their -- 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. 3 MS. BURDITT: They'll have a great big huge 4 star. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, that's right, 6 yeah. And then Schultz Park, where is that? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Schultz Park? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that the one on Guadalupe 9 across from the back side of Take It Easy? 10 MS. BURDITT: No, that one's Guadalupe. This 11 one's off of Water Street and old West Main. It's over 12 there by -- 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Westland. 14 MS. BURDITT: Well, there is a Westland and 15 it's the next one over. It's in that older -- that older 16 neighborhood. So, just a little, bitty -- well, 17 neighborhood park. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Knapp Park has to be 19 on the water somewhere. The old parks plan showed it had 20 swimming available and a boat ramp. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, there used to be 22 a road across the river right there called Knapp Crossing. 23 We used to shoot doves. 24 MS. BURDITT: There's two of those right 25 there, Cypress Park and Knapp Park. And I actually took 5-19-03 workshop 22 1 swimming out. I think I did it on purpose there. That 2 would be a dangerous place to swim. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Riverside Nature Center? 4 Is that not a -- well, that's, I guess, not a park. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Nonprofit. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But is it -- I guess it's 7 mentioned somewhere else? I would think -- it seems to me 8 it's a recreation facility, to me, whether it's nonprofit or 9 not. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It is. 11 MS. BURDITT: Well, until we put Comfort 12 Youth Baseball in, all of these were either owned by the 13 City or the County or the State, or were leased from the 14 County, City, or State. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Riverside Nature 17 Center doesn't fall into that. 18 MS. BURDITT: Riverside Nature Center doesn't 19 fall into that. Comfort Youth Baseball doesn't fall into 20 that if they own it themselves. But I'm correct, am I not? 21 The Kerrville Little League leases from the County? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 23 MS. BURDITT: And Hill Country Youth Soccer 24 leases from -- 25 JUDGE TINLEY: City. 5-19-03 workshop 23 1 MS. BURDITT: -- the City? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. You don't have 3 Ingram Little League on here either, so they're private. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Should we add Comfort 5 or not? 6 MS. BURDITT: Well, we just need some 7 guidelines, 'cause if we add -- if we -- if we go out one 8 more step, then, yes, Riverside Nature Center comes in. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And Ingram does. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. And -- well, I 11 mean, it can -- I think you need to define, you know -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do we asterisk them, 13 put this in with an asterisk, Sudie, a footnote, 14 "Recreational" -- they are owned by recreational 15 associations or something like that? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Nonprofit. And you can pull 17 in Riverside, far as that goes. 18 MS. BURDITT: Well, we'll actually pull in a 19 whole bunch more. We can do a second sheet that pulls in 20 all of those that are -- that are owned by nonprofits. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, let's see what 22 that entails. We may want to do that, leave this one the 23 way it is; then just a note that government-affiliated -- 24 Dave, if you'd get the acreage on the Ingram Little League? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: That's Alexander -- 5-19-03 workshop 24 1 MS. BURDITT: I still need that Center Point 2 one, too. Center Point Historical Park. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I didn't know that. 4 I got to get that one. I've got an "X" by it. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: If we start 6 expanding that, the not-for-profit, we might pick up -- I'm 7 thinking we'd probably pick up Mo Ranch. It's a huge 8 recreation area owned by the Presbyterian church. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a point. 10 That's a point that might make us not want to do that. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's what I'm 12 saying. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, any of the camps -- 14 H.E.B. Camp. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Lion's Camp. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't know. We ought 17 to leave it government. 18 MS. BURDITT: If you got Center Point 19 Historical Park, that's not Kerr County. That's private. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, that's -- 21 that's right. That's a private association also. So we may 22 have to pull that. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Which one? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Center Point Historical 25 Park. 5-19-03 workshop 25 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the one in the 2 middle of town that they're developing; they acquired the 3 acreage. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: The old Legion building there 5 that they've renovated. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there a reason we 7 don't have the Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center on here? I 8 mean, it's not a park, but they use the grounds, obviously, 9 for -- as recreation, and clearly use it for a Kerr County 10 park -- I mean county fair. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Put it down that way. 12 Want to? 13 MS. BURDITT: Well, you didn't -- I had it on 14 here. You pulled it. We separated out the polo fields. 15 Polo fields are on here. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let's put it back in 17 here. I didn't know I took it out of there. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: And in lieu of the polo 19 fields, just put in the -- 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Cut the polo -- 21 MS. BURDITT: I have the polo fields and 22 River Star, which takes the acreage on both ends. And that 23 was why you were saying pull it, because the center part of 24 it -- 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why don't we just 5-19-03 workshop 26 1 expand the definition there; say Hill Country Youth Exhibit 2 Center and polo fields, and add the whole acreage on that 3 one line. All right? 4 MS. BURDITT: Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it would be 7 important to have -- may be beneficial to have it in the 8 master park plan if we decide to do anything out there, 9 improvement-wise. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, yeah. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So I think that's a -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This would take us up 13 to what? We have 65 acres, and we're leasing out 6 and a 14 half or 7? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Seven. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 7.7, okay. So, we'll 17 just change that 20 to whatever everything -- 65, less 7.7. 18 Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And going -- and 20 following up on what I just said, we need to go back under 21 the goals and mention something about the Hill Country Youth 22 Exhibit Center if we do choose to go with grants. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Not a bad idea at all. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Have it at least 25 mentioned in there as an upgrade of the Hill Country Youth 5-19-03 workshop 27 1 Exhibit Center. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Expand facilities and 4 capabilities of use of the Hill Country Youth Exhibit 5 Center. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, that or upgrade. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What page is that? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Anything. As long as 10 it's mentioned, it doesn't make a difference. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Which -- would you add 12 some verbiage about the -- let's see, what do we call it 13 this week? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Heliport? Escalator? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, the -- I can't 16 remember what we called it. What do you want to call it, 17 your building that you're going to have meetings in? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Events center. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Events center. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You've got to be 21 quick, mister. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're going to have 23 that verbiage in there somewhere? Along with -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's a different 25 item, if you add it. I mean, you wouldn't -- to me, the 5-19-03 workshop 28 1 exhibit center -- we don't -- we need to separate the two. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, that's fine. 3 MS. BURDITT: It doesn't meet L.C.R.A. or -- 4 or Parks and Wildlife. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: I was thinking more of a 6 general category of, "Expand and enhance facilities and 7 capabilities of the Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center 8 complex." 9 MS. BURDITT: For recreation. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I just think you leave 11 it open-ended. That way, you got your bases covered. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, we'll do it. 13 Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: This weekend -- one 15 of the weekends, I've seen the use of the Guadalupe River, 16 at least part of it, traveling from Ingram to Hunt, 10 miles 17 out 1340. Every crossing, we had no place to park, cars 18 everywhere, trucks in the river -- seven or eight trucks in 19 the river at one location, trash all over the place. I love 20 to see people using it, enjoying them, but it's -- we don't 21 have a way to provide services like that. Somehow or 22 another, there's a better way to do that. And I'm just 23 identifying a problem, I'm not proposing the solution. And 24 I just traveled part of it. I'm sure all over the county 25 it's the same thing. 5-19-03 workshop 29 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, yeah. There 2 were -- Louise Hays Park was full of people. Even Center 3 Point Park was full of people. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Mostly private 5 crossings, low water crossings, people somehow find a way to 6 trespass or get their vehicles in the river. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If the Legislature 8 ever finds its way back to work -- 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Bet that bill was 10 lost. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- that bill might 12 take new life. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'll bet it's one 14 that was lost at midnight last Thursday. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Richard, you 16 were here for some -- to tell us something? 17 MR. FERRIS: Well, pardon me. I was here 18 specifically for Flat Rock Park. I am a representative of 19 the Hill Country Chili Classic. We have held the event 20 now -- this being our second year, we know somewhere in the 21 plans that -- that had been mentioned of restrooms and 22 possible additional lighting, and I was coming to try to 23 hear what that might be, and then also find out if there was 24 some way that maybe we could help you with something. We -- 25 that we raise some funds. We've given the Turtle Creek 5-19-03 workshop 30 1 Volunteer Fire Department $2,000 this year from the 2 proceeds. We have a little wish list; again, get the 3 electricity expanded to a broader spectrum, restrooms, and 4 ideally a stage up on the hill where you did bring in the 5 power, where it hopefully should be out of the floodplain. 6 Maybe -- maybe we could go out and get funds and build that 7 to a -- to specifications or something. We're open. Fifty 8 years -- 50 years ago, the Kerrville Jaycees built Louise 9 Hays Park in a day in 1954. Maybe in 2004, we can do 10 something at Flat Rock Park. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: We appreciate your interest 12 and your desire. 13 MR. FERRIS: It's a great facility. And if 14 that bridge ever gets built or something to the other part 15 of it -- which, of course, that -- I'm sure that's way down 16 the road, but that's probably one of the prettiest parks in 17 the county that has been kind of ignored until three years 18 ago, two and a half years ago, when you went in and cleaned 19 it all up and made it something to really be proud of. It 20 was pretty trashy. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The bridge from one 22 section of Flat Rock to the other is not as far away as you 23 think, because this leads over -- Commissioner Letz and I 24 are going to go out there and look on Riverside Drive, see 25 if we can find a better way to get from the original section 5-19-03 workshop 31 1 to the new section. There's some interesting -- land swap 2 or something like that, or easement swap or whatever. So, 3 we've got to look into that. Improvements to Flat Rock Lake 4 Park are embodied in the goals and objectives, although it 5 doesn't say specifically. We still have some funds 6 available from the L.C.R.A. grant for the purpose of 7 building restrooms. I don't know if we have enough funds 8 available. We have some funds available. 9 MS. BURDITT: Could I read what we have in 10 here in relationship to Flat Rock? On Page 24, "In addition 11 to the evidence this data provided for establishing 12 priorities for the county, several additional factors were 13 considered." And the second bullet under that is, "Flat 14 Rock Lake Park needs amenities such as lighting, 15 playgrounds, picnic tables, trash cans, restrooms, playing 16 fields, cooking grills, swimming areas," and so forth. And 17 then, in the grid that we did on Page 25, Schedule for 18 Implementation of Master Plan Priorities -- now, again, this 19 is a draft -- 2004 to 2006, complete development of Flat 20 Rock Lake Park, main section. Park facilities will include, 21 number one, picnic area/restrooms, 20 scattered tables with 22 grills. Two, playgrounds. Three, swimming areas. Fishing 23 areas, playing -- four, playing fields. One additional boat 24 ramp, and hike and bike trails. Now you're discussing a 25 stage, and that's not on here, so that's -- 5-19-03 workshop 32 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're talking about 2 a stage coming out of the -- on the slope that goes up to 3 Riverside Drive? 4 MR. FERRIS: Yes. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that what you're 6 talking about? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: On the high side there. 8 MR. FERRIS: On the high side, maybe a third 9 of the way up the hill. We'd stand on that, and you're 10 above and you're playing towards the river. I mean, that -- 11 I don't know whether that would be a priority for other 12 events or not. It is for us, and anybody -- we have a 13 street dance that's really a street dance, and those 14 trailers are sitting there on the park on the hillside, and 15 they're pretty precarious. I'm afraid someone's going to 16 get hurt. But I don't know that that could be a -- would be 17 a top priority. I'm sure the lighting and restrooms would 18 be much more so, but -- so I said maybe we'd contribute to 19 that stage part of it if it doesn't fit in your plan. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I'm sure we 21 could add it. Even if -- if you folks are willing to assist 22 in future funding down the line, or provide the funding, 23 that's -- that would be entertained as well. That's welcome 24 news. 25 MR. FERRIS: I may be talking out of line 5-19-03 workshop 33 1 here. I'm one representative, but -- but if we want you to 2 do something, we should be able to give something back. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Although it may not 4 benefit the Chili Appreciation Society in terms of outdoor 5 stage, an outdoor stage is planned in the Star Park above, 6 by the Texas Arts and Crafts people. They plan an outdoor 7 stage up there. That may not benefit you, though. 8 MR. FERRIS: We're not talking about a huge 9 stage. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Put a question. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're really talking 12 almost more about -- sounds like, you know, a cut and make 13 it level and pour concrete slab. 14 MR. FERRIS: Either a cut or wood frame, pier 15 and beam, so that it would be level on the upper side and 16 just come out with a dropoff. So -- put the posts in there 17 and, like I say, make it of adequate construction. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Either cut and pour or 19 pier up front. Either way, I mean, you know, it's not a 20 major expense, I don't think. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't think so. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think on Page 25, Bill, 23 I would separate out picnic area from the restrooms. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Separate what, Jon? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On Item Number 1, you 5-19-03 workshop 34 1 have "Picnic Area/Restrooms." I think restrooms need to be 2 a separate item, and I think it's because of the funds we 3 have available from L.C.R.A. and the cost of those 4 restrooms. 5 MS. BURDITT: Make it number one. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Make it number one, 7 and -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I don't -- well, my 9 thought would almost be to go to L.C.R.A. I think you're 10 right; I don't think we can build the restrooms that are 11 needed with the money -- the $15,000, plus or minus, that's 12 left. But I know L.C.R.A. wants us to use the funds up for 13 their accounting purposes, and our accounting purposes. The 14 other thing that we didn't -- have not done under the grant 15 were picnic tables. It may be better to put in the concrete 16 picnic tables and get those done with the money we have 17 left, and then look -- and put off the restrooms altogether 18 for a while, or maybe you can do part of -- you know, get 19 the sewer line at least dug over to where we're going to put 20 the restrooms, and then whatever's left over, do the picnic 21 tables, you know. 'Cause I just -- L.C.R.A. would like to 22 get that cleaned up. I think I -- we need to do that. If 23 you have one priority here, I think restrooms first, or 24 picnic area first, either way. But I think L.C.R.A. is 25 probably very agreeable to letting us do what we need to do 5-19-03 workshop 35 1 to use those founds. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What we could do, 3 Sudie, is make priority one restrooms. Take -- and put 4 picnic areas-slash-playgrounds in the second position. Does 5 that work? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That works. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: But what -- or your point is 8 that we can probably, more quickly and economically, with 9 funds we have available, do the picnic tables? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do the picnic tables. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Get that done, get this 12 resolved satisfactorily, making sure the funds are used up, 13 they can be accounted for, and everybody moves on. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: My experience in 16 Center Point Park with picnic tables and slabs has been -- I 17 got -- I've been getting them from Drymala over there, and 18 he pours them and brings them over and sets them on the 19 concrete slab. The combination of the table and the slab -- 20 table and benches and slab has been running anywhere from 21 $1,000 to $1,200 per. So, we've got $15,000, so we could 22 probably put in 10 or 12 of them, or maybe more. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If he gets that big an 24 order, he might put the price down to $800. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm still trying to 5-19-03 workshop 36 1 convince him to do two more for $500 apiece right now. He 2 hasn't gotten back to me. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's a way -- and 4 the other thing we could do with those funds, there would be 5 enough to at least put the extension in underground from the 6 city, put the tap in, and put it over where the restrooms 7 are going, 'cause that's pretty much set, 'cause the utility 8 poles are there. Get that part of it done, and I think 9 L.C.R.A. would agree to fund that portion. And then -- 10 'cause that's probably, you know, $10,000 -- $5,000, $10,000 11 possibly to get that -- or $5,000 to get that sewer line 12 running and the tap put in. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, do sewer line and 14 five tables? Is that what you're saying? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Something like that. 16 Sewer line and as many tables as we can buy. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I like that idea a lot 18 better. Seems like we're moving. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Moving towards -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're getting more 21 done. Can you -- if my memory serves me, the -- the 22 L.C.R.A. moneys are earmarked, I mean, for specifically 23 restrooms. They will go back and change that? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The grant has both tables 25 and restrooms. I think the Court has also -- I think we put 5-19-03 workshop 37 1 restrooms as a higher priority, but if we don't have the 2 money to do the restrooms, you know, I think we can do it on 3 something. But I think we ought to work it out with 4 L.C.R.A., because doing the sewer lines, that's part of the 5 restrooms. I think that's probably not what they have in 6 mind, but I think they will be, you know, willing to work 7 with us. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In your mind, how far 9 away is that sewer line, the city sewer line, from where we 10 plan to put the restrooms? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maybe 50 feet, 75 feet, 12 something like that. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're going to have 14 to have talks with the City about the -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm in charge of getting 16 free taps for everything, forever. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Put this one on the 18 table with that one, right? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. But -- and that's 20 another good point; just go ahead, while I'm discussing it 21 with the City, let's get all these taps put in. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Memorialized forever. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In looking around 25 trying to find a restroom facility that made some sense, you 5-19-03 workshop 38 1 suggested a couple things I should do. I went to Bill 2 Tucker of TexDOT. He says, "You don't want our plans; 3 they're too expensive to do." I went to the City, and they 4 said -- I said, "Who's got the plan for the one over on 5 Thompson Drive that goes in Louise Hays Park?" He said, 6 "Well, Dennis Kneese." He said, "I think I can find it," 7 but he hasn't found it. Then they told me that Franklin 8 Johnston's the one that drew up that plan. So, you know, 9 hello. So, I don't know. I should get hold of Franklin, 10 see what he says. 11 MS. BURDITT: On Page 12, where we're talking 12 about our partners in different projects, can we add the 13 Kerrville Chili Classic as a partner in that document? 14 We're saying service, social, and civic groups, Texas State 15 Arts and Crafts Foundation, L.C.R.A., County and City, dah, 16 dah, dah. But if we've got a specific partner, like we 17 already had with Texas State Arts and Crafts Foundation, we 18 put them in here. Why not go ahead and put the Kerrville 19 Chili Classic? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Rather than name 21 them, why not just change the second -- instead of private 22 foundation, say private foundation and association grants. 23 MS. BURDITT: Well, we have service, social, 24 and civic groups down next to the last. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 5-19-03 workshop 39 1 MS. BURDITT: So, I mean, the Chili Classic 2 would -- would meet in there. But part of what they want to 3 see is community involvement, so if you can name them, it's 4 good. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You think your 6 organization would object to being named? 7 MR. FERRIS: We have a meeting first Tuesday 8 of next month, which is, what, two weeks? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Two weeks. 10 MR. FERRIS: From today. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd like to have a first 12 reading, second reading -- or a public hearing. We're not 13 doing first and second reading, but public hearing. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Public hearing. Thirty days? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would think. I mean -- 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. We'll make a 17 note. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Only thing I want to 19 say about that is -- 20 MR. FERRIS: Would I be able to get a couple 21 of copies of this thing, or at least a copy so I can take it 22 to them too, please? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Sorry, Buster. You had some 25 comments? 5-19-03 workshop 40 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. I just want us 2 to be careful in what we're doing here now. We have kind of 3 an unwritten policy of when people come to use the facility, 4 we take them one at a time, and I don't want to get too far 5 down this road to where we're making a commitment to -- to 6 any one organization over a long period. I just -- you 7 know, if we're going to do that, then let's agree that we're 8 going to do it that way. And, I mean, I just don't want 9 to -- it's just this commitment thing. You know, if -- if 10 the chili folks come along and -- and put a lot of their 11 money into upgrading our facilities, well, we're kind of -- 12 you know, we're making a commitment. We're partnershipping 13 there. And, you know, then they are going to think that 14 they can use the facility anytime, all the time, which they 15 -- they can, but we have to be careful with all that. 16 That's all. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good point. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm not knocking 19 anybody. I just think that we need to be careful, is all 20 I'm saying. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I think our long -- 22 long-term commitments are evidenced by written lease 23 agreements, and beyond that I think it needs to be clearly 24 understood that anything else is on a permissive use-by-use 25 basis. 5-19-03 workshop 41 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Where do you go for 2 permission? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maintenance, is how it 4 is, or the Court. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Facilities Use guys. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Facilities Use, and then 7 to us usually. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's not a 9 bureaucratic process? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. You got to go to 11 Maintenance, then us. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Go to Maintenance, to 13 the Commissioner, to -- then we run it by the Commissioners' 14 secretary, and that's where it usually falls apart. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Anything else? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not too bad. There's 17 only so many levels we can put. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Job well done, good 19 and faithful servants. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Is that it, gentlemen? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Unless there's 22 something else. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll stand adjourned, then. 24 Thank you. 25 (Workshop concluded at 9:46 a.m.) - - - - - - - - - - 5-19-03 workshop 42 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 5 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 6 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 7 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 21st day of May, 2003. 8 9 10 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 11 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 12 Certified Shorthand Reporter 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 5-19-03 workshop