1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Regular Session 10 Monday, June 9, 2003 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 DAVE NICHOLSON, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X June 9, 2003 2 PAGE --- Visitors' Input 4 3 --- Commissioners' Comments 15 4 1.1 Approval of R.A.M.P. grant from TexDOT for FY 2002/2003 airport improvements 21 5 1.2 Report from Third-Party Administrator on pending reimbursement for claim paid by Kerr County 23 6 1.3 Approve road name changes for privately main- tained roads in various locations in Kerr County 26 7 1.6 Consider order prohibiting fireworks in unincorporated areas of Kerr County 33 8 1.7 Consider following matters pertaining to Kerrville South Wastewater Project: 34 9 1. Flow Meter 35 2. Change Order # 3 39 10 3. Extend contract with Compton Construction 42 4. Waiver of liquidated damages due to delay 45 11 1.8 Consider implementing "Adopt a County Road" program to pick up trash on county roads 47 12 1.4 PUBLIC HEARING to consider road name changes for County-maintained roads and regulatory signs 57 13 1.5 Consider road name changes and regulatory signs as discussed in public hearing above 72 14 1.9 Consider establishing minimum salary for Kerr County employees 81 15 1.10 Consider asking for Request for Proposals for regular, recurring services 90 16 1.11 Consider asking for Request for Proposals for various types of insurance 96 17 1.12 Consider asking for Request for Proposals for computer, telephone & technical services 121 18 1.13 Consider adopting State Travel Allowance Guide for per diem allowances or reimbursement of 19 expenses for Kerr County employees 134 1.14 Approval to apply for Kerr County's portion of 20 unclaimed money received from electric co-ops 145 21 4.1 Pay Bills 147 4.2 Budget Amendments 151 22 4.3 Late Bills --- 4.4 Read and Approve Minutes 159 23 4.5 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 160 24 5.1 Reports from Commissioners 161 25 --- Adjourned 164 3 1 On Monday, June 9, 2003, at 9:00 a.m., a regular meeting 2 of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in the 3 Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville, 4 Texas, and the following proceedings were had in open court: 5 P R O C E E D I N G S 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, ladies and 7 gentlemen. I'll call to order the regular Commissioners 8 Court meeting scheduled for this date, Monday, June the 9th, 9 at 9 a.m., notice having been posted in accordance with the 10 applicable law of the state of Texas. And at this point I'd 11 call on Precinct 1 Commissioner, Buster Baldwin. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. If you'd 13 stand and have a word of prayer with me, please, and then 14 follow me in the pledge of allegiance. 15 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you very much. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: At this time, the Court will 18 hear from citizens who wish to be heard on any matter that 19 is not on the agenda. Matters that are not on the agenda. 20 If you desire to be heard on a matter that is on the agenda, 21 we would ask that you fill out a participation form so that 22 we won't miss you, but it's not absolutely necessary. If 23 you'll just let us know when we get to that item, we'll be 24 happy to hear you. But right now, we're in a position to 25 hear citizens that wish to be heard on matters that are not 6-9-03 4 1 on the agenda. Is there any member of the audience here 2 that wishes to be heard on a matter that is not on the 3 agenda? Sheriff? 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: This definitely is not 5 on the agenda. We got notified Friday about this. Judge 6 Tinley's aware of it, but I need to present it, or at least 7 advise the Court, and then possibly come back at a different 8 date to ratify it, because I have to be at AACOG Wednesday 9 morning to be able to accept it. What it is, as y'all will 10 remember, in the domestic preparedness stuff, each 11 jurisdiction had to do a domestic preparedness assessment on 12 what our county would need, or the different things that we 13 would like to have in case there were a terrorist attack 14 or -- or extreme emergency of any type. So, we had to fill 15 out -- James Graham, Chief Deputy, filled out about a 16 100-page domestic assessment deal. 17 And what Judge Tinley got Friday reads that, 18 Dear Judge Tinley, the Regional Emergency Preparedness 19 Advisory Committee took action today to finalize their 20 funding recommendations from the domestic preparedness 21 allocation made to AACOG region. These funds are to be used 22 for the purchase of equipment identified as part of the 23 domestic preparedness assessment completed by your 24 jurisdiction. The committee also took action to recommend 25 the purchase of five decontamination trailers and five 6-9-03 5 1 communications trailers and two Web EOC servers that will be 2 placed strategically throughout the region for the benefit 3 of the entire region. Your county has been identified as a 4 possible owner/host for a communications trailer. We must 5 inform you that if you accept the additional allocation of 6 $80,000 for the purchase of this equipment, that this 7 ownership carries with it the obligation to house, maintain, 8 and have trained personnel who will be in charge of this 9 equipment. Please advise -- be able to met with us on 10 June 11th at 9 a.m. in the conference room at AACOG to 11 accept it. 12 What -- what we have or what we were awarded 13 for basic funding for our department for -- for equipment 14 and that for the county was $78,211. For population 15 funding -- and I'll have to see what their specs are on that 16 yet -- is another -- an additional $22,596.90. And the 17 trailer, which would be a communications trailer housed 18 here, that was offered to the County, it says that the Alamo 19 Area Council of Governments received notification of 20 domestic preparedness funding awards in the amount of 21 $5,613,444 for the 32 jurisdictions that completed the 22 domestic preparedness assessment. One-half of these funds 23 were designated for allocation to meet regional emergency 24 preparedness needs in the AACOG region. On June 4th, 2003, 25 the Regional Emergency Preparedness Advisory Committee 6-9-03 6 1 designated specific funding to be allocated to cities and 2 counties who agree to accept the additional allocations for 3 the purpose of specific equipment for the benefit of the 4 entire AACOG region. Kerr County has been designated to 5 receive additional funding in an amount not to exceed 6 $80,000 for purchase of the communications trailer. 7 In consideration for the additional 8 allocation of $80,000, Kerr County agrees to, one, purchase 9 a trailer that meets the specifications set forth by the 10 Alamo Area Council of Governments Board of Directors through 11 its Regional Emergency Preparedness Advisory Committee. 12 Two, house, maintain, and make available this communications 13 trailer on a 24-hour, 7-day-a-week basis. Three, have 14 trained personnel who will be responsible for this 15 equipment. Four, have the required mutual aid agreements in 16 place and on record with AACOG no later than December 31st, 17 2003. Five, have basic emergency management plans and 18 Terrorist Annex V in place with TDPS/DEM no later than 19 December 31st, 2003. Six, insure completion of training to 20 weapons of mass destruction operations level within nine 21 months of receiving the grant award for First Responders 22 that will be actively supporting a weapons of mass 23 destruction event. This memorandum of understanding will 24 remain in effect for a period of five years upon the 25 signature of the parties. Executed this blank day of 2003. 6-9-03 7 1 And it would be signed by Judge Tinley. 2 What this will give us is a communications 3 trailer that will be housed out at the Sheriff's Office, the 4 building in the back where some of the records are. We've 5 already talked to the Maintenance Supervisor, Glenn 6 Holekamp. Those stored records can be moved out of there, 7 which would give us an enclosed area for a total 8 communications trailer to park it and to have it safely 9 stored. And it would also, I feel -- I haven't seen the 10 specifications, 'cause they don't come out, I think, until 11 the 21st, but each jurisdiction only has until the 11th to 12 respond to this. I feel that it would be a definite added 13 benefit to Kerr County to have a trailer like this. The 14 $78,000 and $22,000 we're already getting, but the trailer 15 itself, where total communication is county-wide and 16 region-wide, I think we would be foolish if we didn't accept 17 that. As far as maintaining it, we're already maintaining a 18 fleet of 43 vehicles. It's no different, especially if it's 19 stored inside, to maintain a trailer that's got a lot of 20 communications equipment in it. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What exactly -- can you 22 explain what a communications trailer is? I mean, 23 obviously, I know it's a communications trailer, but what's 24 in it? 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I haven't seen their 6-9-03 8 1 specifications, but what I would assume is going to be in it 2 is radios that would talk to any jurisdiction within the 3 region, telephone hookups, totally self-contained, 4 generator, the whole nine yards, to where you can actually 5 take it somewhere, hook it up and have communications, no 6 matter what else happens. We were selected to have it here. 7 I think Fredericksburg may have been selected to have one of 8 the decontamination trailers. And they're placing just the 9 different things in the areas where they think we're best 10 suited. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: If we opted not to 12 accept the trailer, I presume it will go somewhere else, 13 like Fredericksburg. So, how -- how is it of benefit to us 14 to be here instead of there? 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Because we are -- it 16 says owner/host. Since we are owner/host, if we had another 17 major disaster, like a fire event like we had a few years 18 ago, or a large manhunt, I feel it could also be used for 19 that, because we are the owners of it. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So we can use it for 21 our own purposes? 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I feel we could, because 23 we are the owner. I haven't seen their specifications yet, 24 though. I -- and if there were, you know, a weapons of mass 25 destruction event somewhere around here, it would also be, 6-9-03 9 1 you know, nice for us to be able to have a communications 2 trailer available immediately instead of having to wait for 3 another jurisdiction to get it over to us. But it just says 4 -- now, the Annex V that they talk about has already been 5 done. Fire departments already have a copy of it. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sheriff, did I 7 understand you correctly that the dollar grants are in 8 addition to the trailer? Or the trailer is in addition to 9 the dollar grants? 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The $78,000 is for our 11 department for equipment. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The $22,000 also comes 14 to our department. What it states on here -- and I have 15 to wait till I get to AACOG -- wait till the 21st, when they 16 put it out. It just says the $78,000 is basic funding. The 17 $22,000 is population funding, and so I'm not sure what they 18 mean, you know, in the different -- in what they say it can 19 be used for. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: If we accepted the 21 trailer, would there be any out-of-pocket expenses to us for 22 training or anything else that might be associated with 23 being the owner of it? 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: At this time, I don't 25 see that there would be any. Okay, without seeing the 6-9-03 10 1 specifications, I'm a little bit hesitant, but I don't see 2 there would be any. TEEX is the agency required to take 3 care of all the training and that. I don't know what that's 4 going to end up being. This is all new to everybody. But 5 the only out of county pocket is moving those records out of 6 that building so that we have a place to store it. We 7 already have about one-third of that building, and this 8 would move the rest of the records so that we can put that 9 trailer and the equipment to go along with it inside that 10 building. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rusty, you mentioned the 12 11th, is it, the day have you to accept it? 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: AACOG expects the 15 counties to be able to react within three days and accept 16 this? I think that's ridiculous. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I'm looking this way 19 to our representatives for AACOG over here. Y'all need to 20 go down there and tell them to get their act together. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: We received this 22 communication, most of it, Thursday. As I recall, Thursday. 23 Now, there was one page that was missing that we didn't get 24 until Friday. That was the last page of the addendum that 25 had the allocations. And it was on that page that it told 6-9-03 11 1 us -- it stopped at Karnes County on the first page of the 2 addendum. Second page, we didn't get. And it was only on 3 the page that we got Friday that we saw we were getting 76 4 or 78 plus the 22. And then there was $80,000 on the 5 trailer, so effectively, we knew about this completely on 6 Friday. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's what I'm saying. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Friday afternoon. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The only thing the 10 Board knew was that the notices would be forthcoming. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, I mean, I just think 12 it's unreasonable. These are all federal funds coming 13 through, and they clearly -- you know, I mean, who imposed 14 the -- the 11th deadline? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Who sent you the 16 letter, Rory Gonzales? 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Comes from AACOG by 18 Aurora Sanchez. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just think it's 20 ridiculous. Personal opinion. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: At this point, it's my 22 understanding that we made application for the grant itself 23 in connection with emergency management. Is that not 24 correct? 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. There was never 6-9-03 12 1 any actual application for the grant, okay? We had to do 2 the assessment, and we had to fill out the assessment. And 3 AACOG regional was given this $5 million-something from the 4 Department of Justice from Homeland Security and that to 5 divide up, depending on how the assessments all turned out. 6 If you'll remember, Aurora, I believe, was up here a few 7 months ago and talked about how important it was for the 8 jurisdictions to all do the assessments because it was 9 connected with any FEMA funds that the jurisdictions could 10 get later on during disasters and that, and so that's when 11 we stepped it up and worked on the assessment to get it 12 filled out. I think the City of Kerrville was awarded 13 $79,000 or something. City of Fredericksburg, about 14 $140,000, depending on the preparedness and that. But I 15 don't see this as anything but a win-win for the county 16 either way, to have that type of trailer housed here. 17 Having people trained to use communications equipment, we 18 already have that. Maintaining the trailer is no problem, 19 and keeping it available is no problem. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My concern is that we 21 haven't read the fine print. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Read everything I have 23 here. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, you yourself said 25 you don't know if -- if we can use it, I mean, for sure or 6-9-03 13 1 not, the trailer for our own personal, you know, internal 2 county things or not. That's why -- my gripe with AACOG is 3 that they're asking to us make a decision, or you -- 4 whoever's going down on the 11th, 'cause I'm not -- when you 5 don't know anything right now. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, the one thing it 7 does say here is owner-slash-host. You are both an owner 8 and a host. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Are we empowered to 10 act on this without it being on the agenda? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't see that we are. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Not empowered, but I've 13 got to be at -- this is what I asked the Judge and Thea, is 14 we have to let them know by the 11th, as far as if we want 15 to complain or accept or not. And I have to have the 16 Judge's signature on it. And so I think they advised the 17 only way we could actually do it on this short of notice was 18 to do it and ratify it at the next Commissioners Court 19 meeting. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's not -- I mean, 21 that's not legal. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's what I was told. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, you can advise 24 them of your acceptance, but when the paperwork comes out, 25 if the Court determines that they don't agree with your 6-9-03 14 1 acceptance, then that's a whole different ballgame, right? 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't know. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think it's kind 4 of arguing something that's kind of pointless. I think it's 5 probably good to accept all three of them, but it just 6 annoys me with the time schedule AACOG or whoever put on 7 this thing. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: That was the same reaction we 9 had Friday. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Pretty close. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So I trust that y'all 12 will pass that on to AACOG, the Board. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I have my copy; you're 14 more than welcome to look at it, but that's exactly what the 15 Judge received. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I believe that. I'm not 17 questioning anyone in the county. I'm questioning AACOG. 18 (Discussion off the record.) 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There was -- you know, 20 as far as a lot of the equipment that was filled out on the 21 assessments from all the jurisdictions were things like the 22 chemical suits, the protective clothing, the breathing 23 apparatuses, all that type of stuff, decontamination stuff 24 that each jurisdiction would have to have in case there were 25 something major happen. 6-9-03 15 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else, Sheriff? 2 (Sheriff Hierholzer shook his head.) 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got a question. 4 I want to follow up on -- I want to ask Number 4's question 5 a little bit differently. I know you haven't read the fine 6 print of what they require, et cetera. Do you foresee any 7 new employees, new cars, new trucks, new guns, badges, 8 anything to operate this trailer? 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: From your department? 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did you get that? 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Get it. I don't see 14 anything. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, thank you. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there anyone else who has 17 -- who desires to address the Court on any matter that is 18 not on the agenda? Any matter that is not on the agenda? 19 If not, we'll move on to the next item. Commissioner 20 Baldwin? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. Comments? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Were you going 24 to talk about Tivy baseball? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, you can talk about 6-9-03 16 1 that. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. I just wanted 3 to congratulate a couple of our young people in our 4 community, two Tivy baseball players. One of them was 5 named -- Will Bernhard, one of our -- he's probably a fifth 6 generation Kerr County boy -- was named to the All-State 7 team over the weekend, which is a great honor. As well as 8 another young man, Jake McCarter, who was drafted by the 9 professional baseball -- I can't remember; I think 10 Cincinnati. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Cincinnati. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Cincinnati, right 13 straight out of high school. And the way I understand it, 14 he's considering going on to college, and -- and not -- not 15 taking a possible lord's amount of money. But, anyway, 16 that's absolutely fantastic, and it's just -- just -- Jon 17 and I were talking about our baseball programs, and not just 18 Kerrville but in the Texas Hill Country. Watching the Texas 19 Longhorns play yesterday on TV, they had a kid from Smithson 20 Valley, a kid from New Braunfels, kid from Boerne, a kid 21 from Kerrville, you know, our little group right in here, 22 and it's really something. I don't know -- of course, I 23 think baseball's a communistic sport; it takes away from 24 track and field. So, anyway, that's really my only 25 comments. I wanted to congratulate those two young men. If 6-9-03 17 1 y'all run into them out in the community, pat them on the 2 back. Very, very well done. 3 MR. MOORE: Mr. Baldwin, may I say something 4 about what you just expressed, if I may? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: About being 6 communistic? 7 MR. MOORE: I'm Ed Moore -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Unless you're going to 9 argue with me. 10 MR. MOORE: You know I never argue. We 11 discuss. Really, that's what it is, discussion. I had the 12 honor, I used to umpire high school baseball. I came down 13 from California to Fort Worth; I did Dallas/Fort Worth. I 14 came here and I did the schools you mentioned, by the way. 15 I'm going to tell you something. The big city boys think 16 they're hot. You guys -- you guys, the people that raise 17 these children, have sat on these fields all over your area. 18 Some of the finest ball players I've ever umpired. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wow. 20 MR. MOORE: I mean that seriously. I did 21 several games for -- with Coach Rippey and his team over the 22 last three years. I will tell you, that team is well 23 managed. They have a proper attitude toward the game. They 24 understand where they fit in it. Coach Rippey has a -- 25 sometimes he gets a little lively. He's cool. Because 6-9-03 18 1 managers do that. But I'm going to tell you what, I was 2 really well impressed by what I saw down here. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you very much. 4 MR. MOORE: And I support what you said about 5 these fine kids. They really are, all over the area. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We have good kids, 7 good families. 8 MR. MOORE: Absolutely. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's why the 10 floodgates are open in Houston, and have been for many 11 years. 12 MR. MOORE: Well, the parents support them 13 real well, I'll tell you that. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Leonard, would you see 15 that his road gets fixed, please? (Laughter.) 16 MR. MOORE: Thank you, Buster. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything further? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir, thank you. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Williams? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I've been 21 out-of-pocket for about 10 days in the Sierra Mountains of 22 New Mexico, where there are big flashing signs all over the 23 area; burn bans, no fires. If you traipse through the 24 woods, as I did, following a little white golf ball, you see 25 a lot of trees that are still burned from the last major 6-9-03 19 1 forest fire they had up there. Anyhow, when I came back in 2 through the high plains of Texas, my brother -- my 3 brother-in-law's praising God for all the rain that fell on 4 his irrigated land to keep him from pulling more water out 5 of the aquifer, and I noticed all the way down from Farwell, 6 Texas, which is on the Texas/New Mexico border, all the way 7 down to almost Menard, water in the bar ditches standing, 8 which is a good sight to see. I'm not sure how much we got 9 here, whether it was one, two, three, four or more inches, 10 but whatever it is, it's a blessing. So, it was a good 11 trip. Good to be back. Town didn't burn down when I was 12 gone, and that's good. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything further? 14 (Commissioner Williams shook his head.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Commissioner Letz? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Couple of comments. 17 First, I'd like to thank Commissioner Baldwin for his 18 exhortations of baseball. Appreciate that. And also, I 19 might mention one additional comment; I believe this is 20 accurate. I think Jake McCarter is the first Tivy baseball 21 player ever to get drafted out of high school. There's 22 quite a few who've gone on to college, several that are in 23 the pros at various levels and things, but I believe he's 24 the first to come out and be drafted out of high school. 25 From talking -- my understanding is he is going to go to 6-9-03 20 1 college probably, and he'll go to Navarro Junior College. 2 He's going to work with Skip Johnson, who's an outstanding 3 pitching coach, which is why he's going there. Secondly, 4 I'd like to offer my condolences, from myself and the Court, 5 to the family of Arthur Flach in Comfort. Arthur is someone 6 I've known all my life; fine, fine person. I think you can 7 sum it up best by how he is known to the community. What 8 I've called him all my life is "Bruder," and bruder is 9 brother in German. I think he's a fine individual, passed 10 away. Offer condolences to his family. That's it. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Nicholson? 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We had a funeral in 13 Kerrville last week for Ms. Oma Bell Perry, who was 90 years 14 old when she died. She was a resident of Hillcrest at the 15 time she died, but as I think all of you know, she spent 75 16 of her 90 years on Big Springs Ranch over in Real County, 17 and she's been a terrific friend of the Hill Country Youth 18 Ranch. She's given them -- given us that 7,500-acre ranch, 19 and it's probably, arguably, the prettiest piece of property 20 in North America. And all of that ranch and those assets 21 will go to help children here in Kerr County and in Real 22 County. Funeral was more of a celebration. She was a 23 remarkable woman. That's all. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. We'll move right 25 into the consideration agenda. First item is the 6-9-03 21 1 consideration and approval of Routine Airport Maintenance 2 Program grant from TexDOT for Fiscal Year 2002 and '03 3 airport improvements. Mr. Pearce? 4 MR. PEARCE: Judge Tinley and Commissioners, 5 I'm Dave Pearce; I'm the Airport Manager for the Kerr 6 County/Kerrville Municipal Airport, Louise Schreiner Field. 7 What you have before you today is a grant which would be 8 $30,000 for routine airport maintenance. In that, we can 9 concrete an area which is termed as the old EEAA facility 10 and an entrance road there, drainage improvements that would 11 go also near that area, for the entrance road to go up to 12 that. We have an opportunity to purchase some herbicide, 13 and we also have an opportunity to purchase some of the 14 fencing in the long-range plan that would go completely 15 around the airport. This is an opportunity where we have 16 funds available. It is for this year. It is $30,000 that 17 we have already in our budget, $30,000 that we will get by 18 the State, and if we utilize it and spend it before 19 September, we can proceed with that. Many of these projects 20 are things that we have to do. For instance, the herbicide, 21 there was already plans to go out and purchase it. I had 22 kind of stopped it at that point, because there -- we can go 23 ahead and utilize a 50-50 match, so there's some 24 improvements that were already contemplated, but we can 25 utilize R.A.M.P. funds for that. So, I ask that you support 6-9-03 22 1 us on this. I do apologize to the Court; I did need to make 2 a couple of changes in the documents you have before you, 3 and I have those with me. The only changes were the budget 4 numbers that were in there on Section 3. I have those 5 documents here for you. I apologize for that, that I didn't 6 get those to you before today. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You mean the account 8 numbers? 9 MR. PEARCE: The account numbers. But that 10 will have to be the signature that's on this one for the 11 account numbers -- if I may? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Did you say that we 14 have $30,000 budgeted now? 15 MR. PEARCE: Yes, we do. We have those in 16 our budgets. I'm not asking for additional moneys. I'm 17 just asking so that we have the authority to execute the 18 documents and spend the moneys that are there. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: City Council will 20 take action on this in its meeting tomorrow? 21 MR. PEARCE: Yes, sir, tomorrow. And then I 22 have to have these to TexDOT by the -- I believe it's the 23 12th or the 14th of this month to be able to process that. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And the funds are 25 available for immediate -- 6-9-03 23 1 MR. PEARCE: Funds are available right now. 2 It's already been verified with the finance; we've already 3 reviewed it. We've got it there. We're ready to go. And 4 I'm the one that generated this. I apologize that it's a 5 little bit reactionary, but it was an opportunity to capture 6 some additional funds, and that's why I'm pushing for it. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would move 8 approval, Judge, of the joint resolution authorizing 9 execution of grant agreement pursuant to Texas Department of 10 Transportation's Routine Airport Maintenance Program for 11 airport repairs/improvements at Kerrville/Kerr County 12 Municipal Airport. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded by 15 Commissioner Williams and Baldwin, respectively, that the 16 Court approve a joint resolution. Any further discussion or 17 questions? If not, all in favor of the motion, signify by 18 raising your right hand. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Next item 23 that we have is to discuss and consider the review and 24 report from Third-Party Administrator and insurance 25 representative on pending reimbursement for claim paid by 6-9-03 24 1 Kerr County on behalf of an employee. I don't see 2 Mr. Rothwell here today. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or Mr. Finley. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Nor Mr. Finley. Actually, I 5 don't see Mr. Finley because I'd only requested Mr. Rothwell 6 to be present, by letter dated May 14, I believe -- yes. 7 Indicating in that letter, when I asked him for certain 8 documents or copies of the same, that I was going to ask for 9 an update at our June 9th meeting. I'm somewhat surprised 10 that he isn't here. If the Court would recall -- 11 Commissioner Baldwin is smiling. Maybe he's not surprised. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are you really 13 surprised? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, I am. Yes, I am. The 15 only thing I can report to the Court is that after -- I know 16 he got the letter, because I saw him in the hall of the 17 courthouse here a week or so ago, and he indicated that he 18 had received it and that he was putting together the 19 information that I requested. And he also told me at that 20 time that he had -- he believed that -- that there was some 21 more money -- approximately $30,000, as I recall -- that he 22 felt like would be received, and that he had just paid or 23 was in the process of getting paid to the Auditor something 24 just under 30 -- approximately $27,000, as I recall. And 25 that he had a couple of thoughts about -- a couple of 6-9-03 25 1 approaches. So, yes, I am surprised that he's not here, 2 especially after indicating to him that we want to be 3 updated at this meeting. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, the day is 5 early. Maybe he'll walk in. I trust that he's -- that he 6 would meet your needs. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: With a check in his 8 hand. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: With a check in his 10 hand. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I wasn't expecting a 12 check in his hand. But, Mr. Tomlinson, have you talked with 13 Mr. Rothwell of late concerning the -- the elusive $258,000? 14 MR. TOMLINSON: I have not. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I see. Well -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, Judge, let me 17 suggest maybe -- maybe Thea could phone someone. He offices 18 in San Antonio, doesn't he? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: That's my understanding. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Maybe Mr. Finley would 21 know where he is; remind him that he needs to be here. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I would have thought a 23 letter would have been adequate. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, that's fine with 25 me. 6-9-03 26 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Especially since he 2 acknowledged he received it. I suspect probably what's 3 going to be necessary to do is put this matter on the agenda 4 for next trip, and issue an appropriate notice that I feel 5 will secure his presence. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Very good. I agree 7 with you. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Next item on the agenda is 9 consider approving road name changes for privately 10 maintained roads in various locations in Kerr County in 11 accordance with 911 guidelines. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Morning, Truby. 13 MS. HARDIN: Good morning. We have -- on 14 your cover sheet, we have eight roads listed. In your 15 backup, there's a ninth one that somehow didn't get on the 16 printout, which I would like to add that one to it, if 17 possible. It is -- let's see. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Which is the ninth 19 one, Truby? 20 MS. HARDIN: Neuhaus. Shady Creek Road to 21 Neuhaus. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What precinct? 23 MS. HARDIN: Four. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Comanche Caves. 25 MS. HARDIN: Should be the last two pages of 6-9-03 27 1 the backup. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There are none in my 3 precinct. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I got one. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I just have one 6 question on Neuhaus Road. Do we know if anybody lives on 7 that road besides J.V. Neuhaus, III? 8 MS. HARDIN: No, sir, I don't. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I can tell you. No. 10 MS. HARDIN: We received approval from 911, 11 so I'm assuming that all of it's been done. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Mostly it's Precinct 13 4, and I'm okay with all of it. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second the motion. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I didn't hear the motion. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I move that we 17 approve the road changes as -- as indicated in this 18 document. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Motion's been made 20 and seconded by Commissioners Nicholson and Williams, 21 respectively, that we approve the road name changes for 22 privately maintained roads in various locations in Kerr 23 County in accordance with 911 guidelines, as presented by 24 Road and Bridge. Any further discussion or questions? 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Just for the people 6-9-03 28 1 in the audience sake, the road names -- new road names are 2 Lago Vista, Cane, Mesquite, Cactus, Terry, Shermans Mill, 3 Graves, Roaring Rock, and Neuhaus. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or 5 discussion? If not, all in favor of this motion, signify by 6 raising your right hand. 7 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 9 (No response.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Next item 11 on the agenda -- 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Judge? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge? 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: May I make -- I finally 15 got ahold of Mr. McFarland that we had tried to do Friday in 16 reference to this deal on the trailer. I just talked to 17 him. I did get a little bit more information, which is, 18 number one, yes, the trailer could be used for anything you 19 have in your -- your county, whether it's even working a 20 festival or anything else; it's just part of it. Trailer 21 would be equipped with at least 10 radios and some plug-in 22 connections to where it can go anywhere and be operated 23 anywhere. They see doing interlocal agreements, like if 24 Bexar County needed it, there would be an interlocal 25 agreement between Bexar County to where we wouldn't even 6-9-03 29 1 have to supply personnel for it. They would take it, use it 2 for their event, and be responsible for maintaining it while 3 they have it and replace anything in it. He said what he 4 would recommend, because TEEX is the one that put that short 5 deadline on them, TEEX has to know by the 13th, so they have 6 to know by the 11th. He would recommend, on the letter of 7 understanding, that the Judge sign it if we're interested 8 and write on the bottom, "To be ratified by Commissioners 9 Court on such-and-such date," being the next date -- the 10 next Commissioners Court. It just gives them an idea that, 11 yes, you are interested in it. But it would also supply 12 portable radios with it that would be programmed to the 13 federal channels, federal frequencies or any other ones that 14 you would need. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You said something that 16 caught my ear. You said if Bexar County was using it and 17 something was missing or whatever, they -- it would be 18 replaced. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That implies maintenance 21 and repairs. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Under theirs, if they 23 had -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, no, I'm talking about 25 when it's in our county. I'm going back to when it's in 6-9-03 30 1 Kerr County. I mean, all of -- everything, every equipment 2 has a life expectancy -- 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Sure. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- of three, five years 5 for that type of stuff, generally. Is there any kind of -- 6 is this a -- is there an obligation that Kerr County 7 maintains and repairs and updates those, or will it be 8 budgeted? 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There is an obligation 10 that Kerr County maintains the equipment. We have -- 'cause 11 we are the owners of it. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. And that 13 contemplates having a time period from -- as to how long we 14 have to maintain. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Memorandum is five 16 years. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Five years. So, if a 18 radio breaks in the five-year period, is it covered by 19 warranty or do we have to pay for it? 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Most of them are covered 21 by warranty for one to two years. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So the answer is that we 23 will probably have a budget -- 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Replacing a radio. If 25 we had to replace a radio. 6-9-03 31 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- impact there of some 2 sort. Okay. Don't count on my vote, necessarily, till I 3 read the fine print. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm just saying we have 5 to have an answer to them by the 11th. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. It's not yet 8 10 o'clock, so we'll move on to Item Number 1.6. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Excuse me. Were we 10 going to act on this today? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: We can't. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can't. You can make a 13 comment. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No. I thought I 15 heard the suggestion that we make a memorandum of 16 understanding, and part of that understanding would be that 17 it doesn't have final approval, but -- 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Subject to ratification at the 19 Commissioners Court meeting on the fourth Monday of this 20 month. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. So, if we 22 don't act, I think not acting means we're not going to take 23 the communication trailer. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Not necessarily. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, what's the 6-9-03 32 1 alternative? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: The alternative would be that 3 the memorandum of understanding would be executed subject to 4 ratification by this Court. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, are you going to 6 do that? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: On the fourth Monday of this 8 month. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Are you going to 10 make a memorandum of understanding? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: I haven't made a decision on 12 that yet. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we're probably 14 safe in accepting. You can always opt out of these things, 15 generally. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can say no, we don't 18 want the trailer, or give the trailer back the day we get 19 it. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: My point is, if we 21 do nothing and the Judge decides not to make a letter of 22 understanding -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: We're out. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- we're opted out. 25 So -- 6-9-03 33 1 JUDGE TINLEY: That would be correct. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: As long as 3 everybody's clear. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Item 1.6, consider and 5 discuss and take appropriate action adopting an order 6 prohibiting certain fireworks in unincorporated areas of 7 Kerr County, and/or to determine whether or not to designate 8 one or more safe areas where the use of restricted fireworks 9 is not prohibited, and the determination of those locations 10 if that option is selected. Commissioner Williams? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I put this on the 12 agenda, Judge, before I left for a week's vacation, because 13 there is a deadline for a county to act if it intends to ban 14 fireworks, aerial fireworks particularly, for the 4th of 15 July and so forth and so on. And when I placed it on the 16 agenda, we had not received any rain, so I don't know what 17 the sense of the Court is about putting it on. I don't want 18 to engage in a huge debate about whether or not this should 19 or should not be made, but if it's something that the Court 20 doesn't particularly want to do, it can be withdrawn. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm the same as last 22 year and the year before and the year before. No. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Refresh my memory. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not interested in 25 regulating people. 6-9-03 34 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I feel the same way. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let's just withdraw 3 it, then, if there's not any sense of the Court. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All right, 1.6 is withdrawn. 5 Let's move on to item 1.7. Consider, discuss, and take 6 appropriate action on a matter pertaining to Kerrville South 7 Wastewater Project; specifically, approve payment to City of 8 Kerrville for the installation of a flow meter as required 9 by sewage treatment contract between U.G.R.A. and City of 10 Kerrville. Approve Change Order Number 3 to increase the 11 contract with Compton Construction by $8,260, increasing the 12 total to 375,694 -- $375,694. Purpose, to connect 13 Ripplewood and Ranchero Roads. Extend the contract with 14 Compton Construction to September 30th of 2003, and reduce 15 retainage from 10 percent to 5 percent. And waiver of 16 liquidated damages due to delays beyond control of 17 contractor. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's four items 19 that need to be addressed, Judge, and so I put them on the 20 agenda, and I've invited Dave Tucker of Grantworks to come 21 down to visit with the Court and to discuss each of these 22 items with you so we have a better, more clear understanding 23 of what -- what's it's all about and where the project is. 24 I've also invited Mr. Compton to come into the Court to tell 25 us a little bit about the extension of the contract and his 6-9-03 35 1 request for a waiver of liquidated damages. So, with that 2 introduction, Dave Tucker, welcome to Kerrville again. 3 MR. TUCKER: Thank you. Judge, 4 Commissioners, good morning. The first item on here is 5 regarding the flow meter. As you may know, after this 6 project is installed, the Upper Guadalupe River Authority 7 will own the pipes, but the City of Kerrville will process 8 the wastewater. Installation of this flow meter will allow 9 the City of Kerrville to know the volume of wastewater 10 coming out of this portion so they can, in turn, bill 11 U.G.R.A., U.G.R.A. can in turn bill the residents for this 12 amount. I have a letter from Howard Jackson with City of 13 Kerrville with some price quotes on how much the flow meter 14 would cost. City of Kerrville will do the installation at 15 no charge, so the total cost will about be about $15,000. 16 And I have an e-mail from the Office of Rural Community 17 Affairs assuring that if we request that that's funding paid 18 for in grant funds, that draw-down request will be approved 19 and paid for. So, Mr. Jackson requested that Kerr County 20 give him some assurances that if the flow meter materials 21 were purchased and installed, that the County, in turn, 22 would request a grant reimbursement to pay for it. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I think it 24 might be appropriate if we took each of these four items 25 separately, as opposed to a blanket approval. 6-9-03 36 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Question. 2 MR. TUCKER: Yes, sir? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Is the cost of the flow 4 meter -- are there funds within the grant moneys to take 5 care of it? 6 MR. TUCKER: Yes, sir. We have -- 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Funds are available? 8 MR. TUCKER: Yes, sir, funds are available. 9 We had a favorable bid opening quite some time ago, and we 10 do have plenty of available funds to pay for this flow 11 meter. If the funds are not expended within the project 12 area specifically to benefit the residents that the project 13 were applied for, then they need to be deobligated and sent 14 back to the State. So, if we have an opportunity to spend 15 it within the project area for a necessary improvement, I 16 think it's a good idea. And it will also facilitate the 17 interlocal agreement between the City and U.G.R.A. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The City's going to 19 install that at no cost to the project? 20 MR. TUCKER: Yes, sir. May I point out that 21 there's no cost to the County for this at all, but yes, sir, 22 that's correct. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. I would move 24 approval of the payment to the City of Kerrville for 25 installation of -- for the purchase of and installation of 6-9-03 37 1 the flow meter as required by the treatment agreement and 2 authorize the County Judge to advise the City that we will 3 apply for the necessary expenditure of the grant funds. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Notion made and seconded by 6 Commissioners Williams and Baldwin, respectively, that the 7 Court approve payment to the City of Kerrville for the 8 installation of a flow meter, as required by the U.G.R.A./ 9 City of Kerrville sewage treatment contract. Any further 10 discussion or questions? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have a clarification. 12 Is part of that motion that the amount is not to exceed 13 $15,000 and that the City of Kerrville install it at no 14 cost? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let's make sure we 16 have an amount. Not to exceed -- is 15 an even number? An 17 exact amount, Dave? 18 MR. TUCKER: That was based on three quotes 19 for each individual item to be installed, which includes a 20 metering manhole with a transducer, terminal unit. There's 21 a couple other technical engineering construction things on 22 here, but based on those quotes, he did come out to exactly 23 $15,000. Remaining grant funds for this project total 24 $30,000, so there is not much danger of cost overrun beyond 25 available grant funds, but I think that's a pretty firm 6-9-03 38 1 number. And that does include no money charged by City of 2 Kerrville for installation. This $15,000 is strictly for 3 materials. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not to exceed? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I was -- you know, to me, 6 if there's something else that comes up, we need to make 7 sure we have some other funds available. I'd hate to have 8 inflation of the amount. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not to exceed -- we 10 can include a "not to exceed". That's fine with me. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: And the City of Kerrville's 12 doing the installation at no labor cost? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's my 14 understanding. 15 MR. TUCKER: Yes, sir, that's correct. If I 16 may, if other situations do come up which may put us in 17 danger of exceeding available grant funds, the State will 18 allow us to reduce the scope of the project to keep it 19 within budget. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Are those -- are those 21 clarifications and/or amendments acceptable to you, 22 Commissioner Baldwin? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Any further 25 discussion or questions? All in favor of the motion as 6-9-03 39 1 amended, signify by raising your right hand. 2 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 4 (No response.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. We'll move 6 on to Change Order Number 3. 7 MR. TUCKER: As y'all may know, this -- there 8 are four grant projects total to provide complete sewer 9 service to the entire Kerrville South area. Most of these 10 executions have been about the -- yes, sir? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not the entire 12 Kerrville South area. The entire project as originally 13 spec'd out. 14 MR. TUCKER: Yes. Yes, pardon me. So we are 15 discussing right here the first of four grant projects. I'm 16 happy to say that now all four have been recommended for 17 funding by O.R.C.A., so we're looking at us doing this till 18 about 2006, but all of those projects were applied for 19 independently. They have to be applied for as separate, 20 independent projects, not interdependent on whether one or 21 another gets funded. However, when it's all said and done, 22 we -- it would be best if they were all combined into one 23 large project. The nature of this change order is basically 24 to provide a connection line between the sewer services that 25 we're providing in the Oak Grove Mobile Home Park area to 6-9-03 40 1 the sewer services we'll be working to provide on the 2 Ranchero Road area. It's a connection between those two. 3 Mr. Compton and the engineer, Kamran Kaviani, prepared this 4 change order. It would cost this amount to connect these 5 two projects. It was always the intent of the application 6 to have at least projects kind of be married into one, and 7 this change order facilitates that. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: My question, Dave, is 9 since the -- the sewer line will not -- on Ranchero Road is 10 the last to be laid -- 11 MR. TUCKER: Yes. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- or the last part 13 of the project -- 14 MR. TUCKER: Mm-hmm. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- when would this 16 Ripplewood connection take place? 17 MR. TUCKER: I -- I'm not entirely sure. I 18 don't believe the connection would be made till the Ranchero 19 Road line, 'cause it hasn't been installed yet. I believe 20 it would just basically stub out to the Ranchero area. 21 Again, we had a favorable bid opening on this project. We 22 can't predict how favorable the bid opening will be in the 23 future, and since we have ample grant funds available, it 24 seemed logical to expend the grant funds on this project 25 while there is extra and can go ahead and make the 6-9-03 41 1 connection now. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, you would lay the 3 Ripplewood piece and stub it at Ranchero? 4 MR. TUCKER: Yes. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And then the 6 connection -- actually, the connection would take place at 7 the next phase, and stub the line at Ranchero Road; is that 8 correct? 9 MR. TUCKER: Yes, sir. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. I would move 11 approval of Change Order Number 3 to increase the contract 12 for Compton Construction by $8,260, and increasing total to 13 $375,695 for the purpose of connecting -- ultimately 14 connecting Ripplewood and Ranchero Road. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion's made and seconded by 17 Commissioners Williams and Baldwin, respectively, that 18 Change Order Number 3 to the Kerrville South Wastewater 19 Project contract be approved to increase that contract with 20 Compton Construction by $8,260, which would increase the 21 total cost of the project to $375,694, for the purpose of 22 hopefully connecting Ripplewood and Ranchero Road. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I hear -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Any discussion or questions? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I hear two numbers. 6-9-03 42 1 We're only talking about a dollar, but might as well get it 2 right. In one spot it says the total is $375,694. Another 3 spot, it has $375,695. Does anyone know? 4 MR. TUCKER: $375,695. I have a copy of the 5 change order. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 695? 7 MR. TUCKER: Yes. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not 694? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: With that correction -- thank 10 you, Commissioner -- any further discussion or questions? 11 All in favor of the motion as stated, signify by raising 12 your right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Now, the 17 extension of the contract with Compton Construction to 18 September 30th and reduction of retainage from 10 to 19 5 percent. 20 MR. TUCKER: Is Mr. Compton here? Ron, would 21 you mind coming up? 22 MR. COMPTON: Good morning, gentlemen. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Morning. 24 MR. COMPTON: As far as extending the 25 contract, we've run into some problems with the golf 6-9-03 43 1 tournament out there at Riverhills. We had it scheduled to 2 be completed by August 1st, and they ran a golf tournament 3 in on us on June 25th, so we can't start before then; we 4 start after then. And then I've got another one scheduled 5 for April -- August the 7th or 15th, so we're going to lay 6 part of the line and then close down, get out of their way, 7 let them do their golf tournament, and hopefully we'll be 8 finished real soon after that. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Isn't it amazing, a 10 country club would put a golf tournament before a sewer 11 line? (Laughter.) 12 MR. COMPTON: They're not interested in a 13 sewer line. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just -- I don't have 15 any problem with that, but I do have a problem with the 16 retainage that we're talking about. 17 MR. COMPTON: What happened is, there's a 18 10 percent retainage right now, and this thing -- of course, 19 it's gone on -- been over a year now, and I've got material 20 that we ordered and paid for, and I'd like to get maybe part 21 of that retainage to -- to carry on some of the -- for some 22 of the material that I've purchased and what-have-you. 23 MR. TUCKER: That is specifically related to 24 the delays in construction? 25 MR. COMPTON: Yeah, right. 6-9-03 44 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do people do that? I 2 really don't know from -- really don't know. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It happens. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, I really don't 5 know. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Make a motion; I'll 7 second it. We'll go on to the next one. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. I would move 9 extension of the contract for the sewer project for Compton 10 Construction to September 30, and reduce the retainage from 11 10 percent to 5 percent. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion's been made and 14 seconded by Commissioners Williams and Baldwin, 15 respectively, that we extend the contract with Compton 16 Construction to September 30, 2003, and reduce the retainage 17 from 10 percent to 5 percent. Any further questions or 18 discussion? 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Is the contract 20 between Kerr County and Compton Construction? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. 22 MR. TUCKER: Yes. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: How was it awarded? 24 What was the process that we used? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We went through a bid 6-9-03 45 1 process. 2 (Discussion off the record.) 3 MR. TUCKER: If I may -- 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm glad to see a 5 Kerr County contractor doing this job instead of somebody 6 else. 7 MR. COMPTON: I am too. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's all. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mr. Compton was the 10 low out of -- low out of four or five bidders. 11 MR. TUCKER: Advertised in the local paper, 12 and there was a bid opening, bid tabulation. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or 14 discussion? If not, all in favor of the motion, signify by 15 raising your right hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Next 20 question is the waiver of liquidated damages due to delays 21 beyond control of contractor. 22 MR. TUCKER: This really goes part and parcel 23 with Section 3. There have -- well, first of all, the 24 delays were in the last summer. Extensive flooding delayed 25 start of construction, if I remember. 6-9-03 46 1 MR. COMPTON: Right. We delayed the -- three 2 days after we signed the contract, of course, came the 3 flood, and Camp Meeting Creek turned into Camp Meeting Lake. 4 And we haven't been able -- weren't able to get back in 5 there till November. And in November, we went ahead and did 6 the bull work, the first two manholes and tie manhole, so 7 that part's done, and we shut it down to let the Riverhills 8 Country Club have it back for a while until they could start 9 again, which they wanted to start June the 15th. And when 10 they ran this tournament in on us on the 28th or 25th -- I 11 don't remember when -- we can't start it till after that, 12 then. So, we still need about 40 days to complete the 13 project, so we're just asking that liquidated damages be 14 waived till September the 30th. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I was going to 16 address that, Judge, the question that we put the -- put the 17 stop date at September 30 or October 1st; liquidated damages 18 would again begin on October 1st if he failed to meet the 19 completion date. That will coincide with the extension, so 20 I would move that the waiver of liquidated damages be waived 21 until October -- till September 30, due to delays beyond the 22 contractor's control. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion's been made and 25 seconded by Commissioner Williams and Baldwin, respectively, 6-9-03 47 1 that the liquidated damages in the contract due to delays 2 beyond the control of contractor be delayed through 3 September 30, 2003. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or 6 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 7 your right hand. 8 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 10 (No response.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you very much. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: We've got a few more minutes. 14 Let's move to 1.8, consider and discuss implementing "Adopt 15 a County Road" program to pick up trash on county roads. 16 Commissioner Letz. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I put this on the agenda 18 at the request of some constituents in the county that 19 thought it would be a good idea. I concur; I think it's a 20 good idea. And, after talking with Road and Bridge, I think 21 we're kind of doing this unofficially in areas anyway. But 22 what the program -- what I envision is, I think it's -- my 23 constituents envision something very similar to what TexDOT 24 does. Someone who wants to designate a portion of a county 25 road, up to -- has to be a 2-mile stretch minimum, the 6-9-03 48 1 County would put up a recognition sign, if they so choose. 2 We would supply trash bags, safety vests, and then pick up 3 the trash or allow a spot for them to deposit the trash. I 4 put it on the agenda to see if there was enough interest on 5 the Court to pursue it, and if there is, I will get with 6 probably Road and Bridge, 'cause they're the most -- you 7 know, get with them, lay definite guidelines and costs that 8 would go in the budget. There would be some cost; I don't 9 think it would be significant. It's really more just an 10 idea to see if it's -- what the feeling of the Court is. 11 MR. ODOM: You turned your head, 12 Commissioner, when you said something about money. What was 13 that? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I said I would get with 15 Road and Bridge Department and figure out what the cost is 16 so it could be included in the budget. 17 MR. ODOM: May I address the Court? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Come forward, Mr. Odom. Happy 19 to have you here. 20 MR. ODOM: Happy to be here. I would like to 21 pass to the Court a program that TexDOT has now -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's -- 23 MR. ODOM: -- which is what the Commissioner 24 is talking about. And I really haven't had a lot -- and I 25 haven't had a -- a chance to talk to Commissioner Letz yet 6-9-03 49 1 about it, but I would ask the Court to study this, because 2 it has to do with tort liabilities and responsibilities. It 3 has to do with trash pickup, paying for dumping, and it's 4 already going forward now. But I have to supply signs, I 5 have to supply vests, I have to supply the trash bags, which 6 we do now. But internally, Commissioner Williams is doing 7 that in Precinct 2, and it's worked very well. We have no 8 problems that way, but we're talking about $100 per sign, 9 probably. The blank itself for the sign is $25. It costs 10 us -- you're running $75 -- $72 for a street sign, so a 11 couple hundred dollars there. You can see the list of -- 12 you know, do we have to make a list of the roads? It gets 13 complicated, Commissioner, and my life's complicated as it 14 is. Being an Aggie, it's just natural. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree it's a cost to 16 it, but it's also a cost to the County -- or a benefit to 17 the County in dollars by having private citizens cleaning up 18 on our roads, as opposed to having County personnel, Road 19 and Bridge, or community service do it and have -- and the 20 oversight of community service. So, I mean, there's a cost 21 either way. It's just whether we try to get the community 22 involved in it or whether we continue to do -- you know, as 23 it is. As you said, it is being done right now. From a 24 tort liability standpoint, if they're doing it -- I mean, if 25 they're doing it, they're doing it, whether we have this 6-9-03 50 1 policy in place or not. I think the cost of the signs is an 2 issue, especially if they're stolen; I mean, we have to 3 replace them. But that's why I think you need some sort of 4 a two-year commitment. Most of the -- a portion of the 5 backup is already what I gave the Court, the TexDOT -- same 6 packet I got from them, you have here, pretty much handed 7 out. It's just an idea. I mean, I'm not going to -- you 8 know, it isn't a huge issue to me. I think it's a good 9 idea, and if our citizens want to help beautify the county, 10 I think they should be recognized. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do, too. I think -- 12 I think it's a great program, Commissioner. I would 13 certainly -- I'm going to balk at the 2-mile minimum, 14 though, because there are some areas that -- you know, you 15 may have a subdivision with half a mile total that you would 16 want to be a part of the program. So, maybe -- maybe we 17 ought to go back and just read the fine print and see -- see 18 if there's some other areas that we need to rewrite. But 19 I'm all for it. I mean, we do it. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a question, 21 Len. This handout you gave us has several sheets called 22 Highway Litter Pickup Dates, and it lists several -- many 23 organizations. Are these organizations already in place 24 doing this? 25 MR. ODOM: Those are on the list for the 6-9-03 51 1 Highway Department, yes, sir. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: State Highway. 3 MR. ODOM: State Highway, not for ours. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 5 MR. ODOM: Now, in your precinct, the J.P. 6 takes care of it. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 8 MR. ODOM: I asked the J.P.'s what their 9 opinion was and how it would interfere with their program 10 they have, and the J.P. in Precinct 2 takes care of it. We 11 asked in 4, and Judge Ragsdale says that he's somewhat leery 12 of doing it because of tort liabilities of asking someone to 13 go out on the roadway and if something should happen. I'm 14 not saying it's not a good program. I'm just asking you to 15 ponder this for a little bit and let us have a little bit of 16 time to see, because I -- I'm -- you know, I can tell you, 17 when I give the vest out, I'll never get the vest back, 18 and -- and they're not cheap. So, I've got signs to put 19 out. Do these people take the time to do the safety 20 programs? What are the tort liabilities in that aspect? Do 21 I have to inspect them? I'm just asking the Court to 22 consider the program. It is certainly a very viable 23 program, but it is functioning internally through the 24 J.P.'s. I don't know -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that true? Two of the 6-9-03 52 1 people who told me live on Elm Pass Road in Precinct 2 that 2 want this, so clearly their roads are dirty. I can look on 3 any road in my precinct -- 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I've probably got 5 three of the worst, Elm Pass and Stoneleigh and Center Point 6 River Road. One of the prettiest drives in Kerr County is 7 the one that's spoiled the most. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mm-hmm. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And I want the 10 community -- community service people out there when they're 11 available. But my question is, how -- who finds these 12 groups to do this? Do we have to do this? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. Purely volunteer. 14 MR. ODOM: It's volunteer. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: TexDOT's program -- I 16 mean, I talked to Corinna, the lady who manages it locally 17 in Kerr County for them, and she says it's very simple; very 18 little for them to do. You know, she keeps a spreadsheet; 19 she keeps track of them. I think theirs is a little bit 20 more structured than we need, personally, but, you know, 21 it's -- that's why I brought it before the Court, to see if 22 there's an interest in pursuing it. If there is, I'll 23 pursue it. If not, I won't. Doesn't make that much 24 difference, but I just think that it's a -- I mean, the tort 25 liability issue that J.P. Ragsdale had, I mean, well, 6-9-03 53 1 clearly, the State doesn't think it's that bad, and they're 2 talking about a lot worse situations. So -- and I think the 3 biggest concern that I have is the cost. And there is a 4 budget cost, and in tight budget times, that could be the 5 thing that kills it, to me, more than anything else. But 6 there is also a benefit to keeping our roads clean, and 7 we're currently -- there's a cost to doing that the way 8 we're doing it right now. 9 MR. ODOM: Maybe. But if we put the signs 10 out, do we have to have perpetual maintenance on that? Like 11 I say, it is expensive. It's even more expensive -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't have any 13 problem with the concept; I think the concept's good. If we 14 can get people -- organizations to step forward, that's 15 fine. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I tell you, after -- 17 after the newspaper writes the article on today's 18 conversation, they're going to be beating your door down, 19 offering you money. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're kidding. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, it's going to 22 happen. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I can hardly wait. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I know. I'm pretty 25 exited about it, too. 6-9-03 54 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I like the concept a 2 lot, and I think the State program does a lot of good. I 3 also notice that Highway 27, 39, 41, and 1340 are pretty 4 trashy today because of all of the summer guests. I've 5 actually worked on one of the cleanup crews one time, and I 6 came away from there angry with all the stuff we dug out of 7 the bushes. 8 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir, Lotto tickets and 9 everything else. I wish the State of Texas would do -- I 10 won't bash that. But I -- there's -- if you -- and I had 11 the Scouts -- I had a Scout group between the V.A. Hospital 12 and the dump, and we chose it specifically to keep the boys 13 busy, and it does make you mad, the trash you pick up. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Anyhow, I like the 15 concept. I've got the same concerns about costs that 16 everybody else does. If, somehow, we could overcome that 17 hurdle, then I -- I think it's a good thing to do. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, some of that 19 cost actually won't be there, because currently Road and 20 Bridge supplies bags and vests and so forth already. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think they're 22 going to be pounding down our doors to do this. I mean, I 23 think it's -- if we have -- TexDOT has -- I mean, on their 24 list they have maybe 20 for the -- in the county. 25 MR. ODOM: I just ask the Court to ponder it 6-9-03 55 1 before -- 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think you're right. 3 MR. ODOM: -- taking action. That's all I 4 have. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think you're exactly 6 right. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: "Citizens of Hunt, 8 Texas," I know that somebody's taken a piece of tape and put 9 it over the "S" so it's just "Citizen of Hunt, Texas." 10 Apparently only one member left in that group. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pointed at you? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Edward T. Moore? Do you 13 have anything to address the Court on with respect to this 14 Adopt-a-Highway program? 15 MR. MOORE: No, sir, I have nothing. Thank 16 you. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: You had filled out a 18 participation form, and -- 19 MR. MOORE: Maybe later, when you're through, 20 there may be something I'd like to discuss. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: My reason for calling upon 22 you, sir, it says, "Which agenda items do you wish to 23 address?" And your response was "Any." 24 MR. MOORE: Yes, sir. At the end of the 25 meeting, there may be something I'd like to address. 6-9-03 56 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. If I needed to 2 call on you as to each item on the agenda, I wanted to be 3 sure. 4 MR. MOORE: No, sir, not necessary. I 5 appreciate it. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 7 MR. MOORE: Thank you. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, my question is, 9 I'm -- you want me to come back with definite -- with 10 definite costs and definite guidelines? Is that it? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't know. I'm 12 prepared to act on it, myself. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think the rest of 14 the Court is. I don't need to have the definite -- I mean, 15 the actual guidelines? 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: If I have some idea 17 what the costs are, then I'm ready to act on it. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right, I'll bring it 19 back. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: If it's a couple 21 thousand dollars, it's one thing. If it's 20, it's another. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: No one wishes to offer a 23 motion at this time? At this time, the Court will recess 24 the Commissioners Court meeting, and will convene and open a 25 public hearing to consider road name changes for 6-9-03 57 1 county-maintained roads and regulatory signs in various 2 locations in Kerr County. That public hearing was 3 advertised and set for 10 a.m. this morning. I apologize, 4 it's a few minutes after. We had to finish up that one 5 item, and had we not done so, we would have started too 6 early. So, better late than early. 7 (The regular Commissioners Court meeting was closed at 10:08 a.m., and a public hearing 8 was held in open court, as follows:) 9 P U B L I C H E A R I N G 10 JUDGE TINLEY: I will now call for any public 11 comment on road name changes for county-maintained roads and 12 regulatory signs in various locations in Kerr County. 13 Mr. Kuyper? 14 MR. KUYPER: Yes, sir. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Did you wish to be heard on 16 this? 17 MR. KUYPER: Yes. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Please come forward, sir. 19 State your name for the reporter and tell us what's on your 20 mind. 21 MR. KUYPER: My name is Jim Kuyper and I live 22 off of Beech Road. And I don't play baseball and I'm not an 23 Aggie, so I don't have a snowball's chance in Del Rio being 24 heard, probably, but I do oppose the name change on Beech 25 Road. And I was just going to address -- I got a copy of 6-9-03 58 1 the petition and I just wanted to address the whereas's, and 2 evidently there was some confusion regarding the correct 3 name. And it might be the spelling of the name, but if you 4 say you live on Beech Road out near Mountain Home, I don't 5 think there's any confusion at all where that's at for most 6 people that live around here. And it's been asked to 7 change, and I'm sure that the confusion would come when we 8 say we now live on Byas Springs Road, which used to be Beech 9 Road out by Mountain Home. So, as far as that -- I just 10 don't think it's a -- there's that much confusion. There 11 was -- I know that there's another street named Beech 12 Street, which is 20 miles from Beech Road, in the city of 13 Kerrville, not out or near Mountain Home. I didn't see 14 much -- I don't see much confusion, or that there should be 15 much confusion between a city street and a street that's out 16 there. There are many duplications. 17 The other -- the next one is, it states on 18 here that there's road that parallels Byas Branch, and to 19 lump a couple together here, a major tract along the road is 20 named Byas Springs. And I wanted to make note that -- and I 21 believe the County records show that in September of 1963, 22 Walter Beach gave the County an easement to put that road 23 there for one dollar and other considerations. And we can 24 only presume what the other considerations were, but I guess 25 I would have to ask if there was a -- a Byas or a Mr. Byas, 6-9-03 59 1 if he was prepared to -- to give access to that springs for 2 a dollar and other considerations, since it's so historic. 3 I think -- I think that pretty much clear -- I mean, that's 4 my opinion. I think it should be left as-is. And the -- 5 one other point is that the petition didn't reach everybody, 6 and there are probably at least 10 other residents, and 7 maybe up to 20, that didn't either hear from them or knew 8 anything about it that may well be opposed. There was more 9 opposition than just a couple of people. So, thank you for 10 listening. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mr. Kuyper, may I ask 12 you a question? 13 MR. KUYPER: Yes, sir. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If it's -- if it's 15 left to be Beech Road, how do you spell Beech? How do 16 you -- 17 MR. KUYPER: Walter Beach's name was spelled 18 B-e-a-c-h, and on the surveys it is spelled B-e-a-c-h. I'm 19 not sure where the B-e-e-c-h came from. But, once again, if 20 -- if you're calling in and telling somebody that, you know, 21 you have a fire or whatever on Beech Road, if you fail to 22 mention Mountain Home, that -- I'm -- that would certainly 23 get them in the area, if you mention that. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wasn't the original -- 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Anybody else have any 6-9-03 60 1 questions for Mr. Kuyper? Thank you, sir. We appreciate 2 your input. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wasn't the original 4 name Byas Springs? Wasn't that the -- no? 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No, I hadn't heard 6 that. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. I may have 8 dreamed that last night or something. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's the reason for 10 the change -- proposed change? 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, there's two 12 reasons. One -- Mr. Amerine may want to speak to this also. 13 One, the road name is currently misspelled. That's a minor 14 thing; we can fix that. But there's also the conflict with 15 Beech Road/Beech Street in Kerrville, and it's the -- worst 16 case scenario is that somebody calls in, about to die, calls 17 911 on a cell phone and says, "I'm dying out here on Beech 18 Road," and pass out or whatever; can't get any more 19 information from them. So, you can't have two Beech Roads 20 in this -- in this 911 system, so you have to change the 21 name of this one to either correct the spelling, and either 22 the -- Kerrville or the County's got to change the name of 23 one of the two Beech Roads. Now, I haven't applied the 24 formula for -- when there's a conflict. I have not applied 25 the formula to it; which one is the oldest, which one's got 6-9-03 61 1 the most people on it and that sort of thing. But, for 2 sure, we can't let two Beech Road names stand. I have 3 received a petition on this to change it to Byas Springs, 4 and I think there was some 45 or so signatures on that. I 5 also know that there's some -- 6 MR. KUYPER: Could I make a comment? There 7 are 45 signatures, but they amount to a little over 20 8 actual gates, homesteads, residents. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Ownerships. 10 MR. KUYPER: Right. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I've also met with 12 one of the residents out there who opposes the name change, 13 and even though he's -- after a meeting with me and meeting 14 with some of the other neighbors, he still wishes that it 15 wouldn't change, he's willing to concede that there are 16 reasons to change it to Byas Springs Road. So, the bottom 17 line is, we have to make changes in one of these two Beech 18 Road names. There's a lot of sympathy and support for 19 changing Byas -- Beech out in Mountain Home to Byas Springs, 20 and that's what I'm going to support, the change to Byas 21 Springs Road. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Commissioner, they're -- 23 both of these are in the same geo region? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're not the same geo 6-9-03 62 1 region? 2 MR. KUYPER: Twenty miles apart. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: A geo region expands far 4 beyond 20 miles. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Wheeler -- I'm sorry. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I was going to say, 7 they're not in the same geo region. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Wheeler, you had filled 10 out a participation form for 1.5, which is one and the same 11 as 1.4. This is -- 12 MR. WHEELER: That will work. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: -- really your first 14 opportunity to have your say-so on this. Would you give 15 your name to the reporter? 16 MR. WHEELER: My name is Jerry Wheeler, and 17 I'm a resident on Beech Road. I'm also the Assistant Fire 18 Chief of the Volunteer Fire Department, Mountain Home. And 19 I want to thank the Court for considering the name change. 20 As a firefighter, I think that it's important that we have 21 every opportunity to get the proper people to the proper 22 places, and the confusion between Beech Road/Beech Street 23 has potential for disaster. I realize there is many streets 24 in this county that have similar names, but I don't want my 25 life or the lives of my neighbors being threatened by a 6-9-03 63 1 potential problem, and I again thank you for your 2 consideration. And, personally, I don't care if we call it 3 Byas Springs Ranch Road, Byas Road, just as long as it's 4 different than Beech and there's no duplicity. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Anybody have any questions for 6 Mr. Wheeler? Thank you, sir. Betty Syfan. You wish to be 7 heard, ma'am? Please come forward, give your name to the 8 reporter, and feel free to give us your remarks. 9 MS. SYFAN: Betty Syfan, Mountain Home. I'm 10 not sure what road I do live on. And adding to what the 11 others have said, also adding to them, we have had people 12 looking for individuals on whatever road that is, and they 13 say they're at one place, and they say, "You're not along 14 here," and it turns out they're on the wrong one. Should 15 there be a name change, it seems logical that it would go 16 back to the original, the historic name. Yes, there was a 17 Mr. Beach. There definitely was a Mr. Byas, and he is the 18 one who established that road. It was Byas Springs Ranch 19 Road. What is proposed at this time is just Byas Springs 20 Road. I could go on; a lot of it would be duplicating what 21 the others have said. But we do have a number of people -- 22 I didn't realize there were so many who lived along that 23 road. And talking with those who Mr. Kuyper had said 24 apparently had not been contacted, just talking with them 25 incidentally, they said, "No, we didn't know about a 6-9-03 64 1 petition, but yes, we definitely are for it." And what's 2 interesting, too, is that several of the people who are 3 historic as well as Mr. Byas in this area are definitely for 4 it, for returning it to Byas Springs Road. Thank you very 5 much. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Any questions for Mrs. Syfan? 7 Thank you very much, ma'am. We appreciate your input. 8 Mr. Amerine? 9 MR. AMERINE: I just want to add the 911 10 perspective this road-naming issue. Some of the arguments 11 for not changing duplicate road names is that disasters 12 haven't occurred to this point. That just doesn't carry any 13 weight. That's like driving with your lights off and your 14 eyes closed and hoping you don't hit anything. Duplicate 15 road names are a disaster waiting to happen. And I have to 16 reemphasize that changing this road name will surely, as the 17 gentleman from the fire department mentioned, alleviate any 18 concern about where a location might be. The geo region 19 issue really isn't germane at all, because if it's a land 20 line call, you will get the Mountain Home versus the other 21 location, and that will be fine. But I want to tell you, 22 out of the 15,000 phone calls we get at 911 each year, 23 40 percent are now coming from cell phones. We get no 24 location information whatsoever. If it's someone who's not 25 familiar with Kerr County, then they're just going to say, 6-9-03 65 1 "I think it's Beech Road," and that's going to be completely 2 confusing to anybody who tries to respond to that. So, just 3 to reemphasize, there is a public safety issue. I'd like to 4 see this road name changed. Thank you. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Any questions for Mr. Amerine 6 from any members of the Court? Thank you, sir. 7 MR. AMERINE: Thank you. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Do we have any other member of 9 the public that wishes to be heard on this issue? This is 10 your last chance. Come forward now. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And this public 12 hearing covers all of these roads? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And all of the 15 regulatory signs as well? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: It does indeed. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: The public hearing is for all 19 of the road name changes and all of the regulatory signs as 20 listed on the notice. Yes? 21 MR. KUYPER: Could I ask that Beech Road 22 would be held out, and give us an opportunity to see really 23 who the -- get the -- the name of the people that live on 24 Beech Road, all of those, and see where the residents really 25 stand instead of just a single, one-time canvassing? 6-9-03 66 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, if you're speaking with 2 respect to any formal action taken by the Court, that will 3 be done not in the public hearing, but rather in the regular 4 portion of the meeting. What we're trying to do now is to 5 make sure that everyone who wishes to be heard in a public 6 hearing format on any of those road name changes as listed, 7 or the regulatory signs as listed, has an opportunity to be 8 heard at this time. Yes, sir? Mr. Moore? 9 MR. MOORE: Mr. Baldwin, is this part -- 10 these regulatory signs, is this part of what I discussed 11 with you, sir? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, it is. 13 MR. MOORE: May I speak? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Please come forward, 15 Mr. Moore, and identify yourself for the reporter and give 16 us your comments. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That is the reason I 18 was doing this. It's your turn. 19 MR. MOORE: That's why I went, "What?" I'm 20 Edward Moore. I live in Upper Turtle Creek. I -- I do have 21 something to say about Beech Road. We're talking about 22 changing one. What's wrong with changing the other one? 23 You're talking about changing one Beech Road. Can you 24 change Beech Street? What's the impact on people? What's 25 the least or most impact on people? I don't know. 6-9-03 67 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's in the city. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We have guidelines 3 that we follow to decide where the redundancy -- decide 4 which one will have to give in. In case of the two Beech 5 Roads, it's not real clear which one would -- would be the 6 one selected to maintain its name. So -- 7 MR. MOORE: Maybe it could be considered? I 8 don't know. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We've had months to 10 consider. We've heard from a lot of people, and I think we 11 probably have all the information we need now to make a 12 decision. 13 MR. MOORE: Very good, thank you. I'd looked 14 at the paper before I went on vacation to California, and I 15 saw something about regulatory signs on Upper Turtle Creek. 16 That affected a swimming hole at Upper Turtle Creek where it 17 crosses Turtle Creek Road where there's a one-lane bridge. 18 And I always call Buster when I have a question and ask him, 19 what's the deal here? I was kind of surprised, 'cause I've 20 only lived out where I live now two years, but I lived 21 farther out three and a half years. I've watched a lot of 22 people enjoy that area, really -- they really enjoy it. And 23 so we discussed it, and stop signs has been placed there. 24 And I wasn't aware of that yet, 'cause I saw there was going 25 to be discussion about doing this. And Mr. Baldwin and I 6-9-03 68 1 discussed -- my question was, are they going to put no 2 parking signs on both sides? And I believe your reply was 3 yes. And then I said, well, that -- that ruins it. That 4 ruins it, 'cause people really enjoy that. 5 He stressed his concern, and I believe it -- 6 it's safety. And he's right, we need safety. If we're 7 going to do things, we need safety. So, in the 8 conversation, he tells me, well, these signs are there. I'm 9 going, like, we were going to have discussion, but the 10 work's been done? I don't know how this works. I'm a 11 little confused by this, 'cause it would be -- it would be 12 terrible if we decided that they don't belong there and we 13 have to go pay to pull them out again. So it's -- maybe 14 I'm -- maybe I'm putting the horse before the cart, or maybe 15 it got there, but my -- my whole thing changed whenever I 16 went over -- I told Buster, I'm going to go look at this, 17 'cause I'm concerned. I want safety, but those people -- 18 we've had people swimming there for years. In fact, my 19 grandkids swim there. 20 So, I go over, I look, and actually, Buster, 21 there's parking on one side only. Because there's -- here's 22 another thing that came in after I discussed it with you, 23 was, well, if they don't park there, where are they going to 24 park? They're going to go swimming. Now, do they take that 25 hazard and put it somewhere else, if you follow the drift of 6-9-03 69 1 how this works? 'Cause we -- it wouldn't be fair to close 2 it down, put no swimming. You know, we've got no fishing 3 from the bridge; I agree. So my question was -- and I 4 looked at it, was where would they would go? Well, when I 5 looked at it, there's still parking on the creekside, so 6 there's places to put the vehicles. Now, here again, my 7 main concern now is, do we really put things up and then 8 talk about it later? Because let's say in our conversation, 9 like we're here now today, and we come up with a very good 10 reason not to do a thing, which does happen. We'd have to 11 remove that. So, that's my comment on that part. 12 As relates -- relates to where I live out 13 there in Kerr County -- which, you know, I'm glad people can 14 still swim there, Buster. By the way, we don't hardly use 15 it. We discuss it. If we disagree, we agree to disagree. 16 I don't care, you know. If I told you before, I'll tell all 17 of you; all I ask for is reason to hear me; you don't have 18 to agree with me. Don't lose your temper. Don't get angry, 19 'cause I sure won't. You know, 'cause we -- we're here to 20 see things are done in what we think's the proper way. And 21 that was my comment about the signs. And, yes, they can 22 swim there. And -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Road and Bridge -- did 24 you understand his question, Leonard? We -- we went out and 25 put the signs up before we had this public hearing and 6-9-03 70 1 approved it. I mean, you want to take a stab at answering 2 it? Or you want to get Letz to answer it? 3 MR. ODOM: If the gentleman says it's done, 4 then I guess it is. I -- unless the work order came down by 5 some way and put in -- once we get a work order, we go out 6 and put it in, so I don't know. 7 MR. MOORE: Any idea who stimulates a work 8 order? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. No, and it's not 10 that big a deal. But try to answer Mr. Moore's question. 11 MS. HARDIN: There is a court order in place 12 that leaves it to the department's discretion as to whether 13 it's needed or not. Then, to be followed up -- for it to -- 14 for it to be legal, there needs to be a court order on such. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right. That's your 16 answer. 17 MR. MOORE: To be legal. 18 MR. ODOM: But to put it up for health, 19 safety, and welfare, we have that right to make a 20 determination if there's -- there's health, safety, and 21 welfare. If there's complaints of such, of people blocking 22 that, we will do that, sir, and then we will put this on the 23 agenda to address it, so when they give a ticket, that 24 ticket sticks. That's what this is for. 25 MR. MOORE: Okay. I appreciate that answer, 6-9-03 71 1 'cause, personally, it caused some confusion. Like I say, 2 I've got a -- a horse and cart here, and it doesn't seem the 3 right flow, but if that's the way we do it, that's the way 4 we do it, and I can understand it. By the way, I like what 5 they did, because it does -- it does make it safer out 6 there, Buster, you know, really. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's -- there's your 8 Sheriff right there if you want to pounce on him. 9 MR. MOORE: Well, Rusty -- I got no reason to 10 let him even know who I am. (Laughter.) Much less cause a 11 problem. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's true. I'll get 13 with you later, Rusty, and tell you about this guy. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't think I want to 15 know. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Where you can find him. 17 MR. MOORE: Gentlemen, I want to thank you 18 for a moment. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, Ed. Thank 20 you very much. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One quick question of 22 the Commissioner. Are we talking about changing it to Byas 23 Springs or Byas Springs Ranch Road? 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Byas Springs Road. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Not put the 6-9-03 72 1 "Ranch" in. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there any other member of 3 the public that wishes to be heard on this issue? Hearing 4 no response, I will close the public hearing and I will 5 reconvene the Commissioners Court meeting that we recessed 6 from. 7 (The public hearing was concluded at 10:29 a.m., and the regular Commissioners Court 8 meeting was reopened.) 9 - - - - - - - - - - 10 JUDGE TINLEY: And now, being reconvened, I 11 will call Item 1.5, consider road name changes for the 12 County-maintained roads in various locations in Kerr County 13 in accordance with 911 guidelines, and regulatory signs as 14 discussed in the public hearing. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I move that we 16 approve the road name changes for County-maintained roads in 17 various locations in Kerr County in accordance with 911 18 guidelines, and regulatory signs as discussed in this public 19 hearing and as enumerated on the attachment provided by Road 20 and Bridge. I want to -- I'll make that motion, but I'll 21 have some comments, if I can. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. About Byas 24 Springs Road versus Beech Road, to Mr. Kuyper and to others 25 who live on Beech Road and have some concerns or object to 6-9-03 73 1 the name change, I want you to know that I understand your 2 concerns, and I think they're legitimate and I think you're 3 sincere about it. What this comes down to is the fact that 4 we've got two Beech Roads, and they have to be -- 5 MR. KUYPER: One is Beech Street or Drive. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay, we've got a 7 Beech Road and a Beech Street. 8 MR. KUYPER: One is in Kerrville and one is 9 in west Kerr County. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Both of them are in 11 our 911 system, and we're going to make a name change. 12 We're going to change the name of one of those roads or 13 streets. What I have in -- on the current Beech or Beach 14 Road is a majority of the people who live there support 15 changing the name to Byas Springs Road. Other sincere 16 citizens who live there object to it, and I'm coming down on 17 the side of we have to make a change, and I'm going to go 18 with what the majority of the people on what now will be 19 Byas Springs Road choose to do. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think just -- for 21 the record, Commissioner, I don't think the Court has the 22 authority to do anything within the city. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So our options are 25 kind of limited. 6-9-03 74 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes, sir. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Our alternative would be to 3 wait on the City to change theirs. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: To ask them to 5 change theirs. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Snowball's chance in Del Rio, 7 I believe, is the chance that we would have for that. 8 MR. KUYPER: One other -- the road that I 9 actually live on that comes off of Beech Road is called 10 Waters Drive, which is -- there's also a Waters Street in 11 Kerrville, and so does that mean that -- are we changing all 12 of those duplications? Or -- 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Is your -- is yours a 14 county-maintained road, or is yours a private -- 15 MR. KUYPER: Waters is a private. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: You may want to consider 17 changing that road -- name of that road in accordance with 18 the 911 guidelines. Mr. Amerine can talk with you about 19 that, so that should you have a misfortune occur on your 20 road, you won't have the same potential result that we're 21 concerned about on Beech Road/Beech Street confusion. It's 22 a good point. I appreciate you mentioning that, and I'm 23 sure Mr. Amerine and his people will be glad to talk to you 24 about it. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Only comment I'll make is 6-9-03 75 1 that, you know, none of these changes or signs really are in 2 my precinct; they don't affect me, but I think I'm going to 3 have some come before the Court very soon, and one's going 4 to be probably more controversial than this one, being 5 Cypress Creek Road, Cypress Creek Loop, and Cypress Creek, 6 and something else; we're not sure what it is. But, you 7 know I just ask the public -- the County's trying to do or 8 is doing what is in the best interests of the public safety 9 of the county. It's not easy. It's going to be -- a lot of 10 people are going to be unhappy with the choices that this 11 Court has to make. And I think, you know, from the little I 12 know of the situation, Commissioner Nicholson did what I 13 would do, go out and get a lot of feedback. And you have to 14 make a call, and I'll support his recommendation, 'cause I 15 think he followed the process that, you know, is the best 16 that can be done in the situation, 'cause we can't keep 17 everybody happy, and we do need to make a change. 18 MR. KUYPER: I hate to be like a bad penny. 19 Couldn't we -- is it possible that we could look into the -- 20 maybe calling it West Beech Road or something? Which -- it 21 allows it to maintain that -- the integrity of that road 22 that many are familiar with, but changing it from -- I see 23 the lady shaking her head. 24 MS. HARDIN: Doesn't follow the guidelines. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Starting with "West." 6-9-03 76 1 MS. HARDIN: West -- no road starts with a 2 direction. 3 MR. KUYPER: I got you, okay. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd be curious to know 5 why you're so adamant about this. What -- 6 MR. KUYPER: I don't think I'm any more 7 adamant than them. It's just that I think Beech Road -- I 8 think there will be more confusion after that change, 9 because, mark these words, if you want somebody to get there 10 quick, you are going to mention the fact that it used to be 11 called Beech Road. If you said, "I live on Byas Springs 12 Road," well, that -- there's maps, there's addresses, 13 there's things that are there. So I think by changing it 14 totally from Beech to Byas, it just offers more confusion. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, you have -- you 16 have the Kerr County Sheriff sitting here, emergency service 17 fellow. You have almost the full 911 Board sitting back 18 there that haven't stood up to -- to agree with that, 19 though. I mean, is there something -- is there something -- 20 some reason that -- 21 MR. KUYPER: None whatsoever, other than 22 that. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right. 24 MR. KUYPER: I just think that it -- we can 25 maintain that as -- I think all of us know it as Beech Road. 6-9-03 77 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 2 MR. KUYPER: I think there's very few people 3 that think of that road as Byas Springs. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir, I agree with 5 you. 6 MR. KUYPER: And I also think that if 7 somebody turns over an easement to the county for one dollar 8 and other considerations, then you just -- a couple of years 9 later, then we go and change that name, and -- you know. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I think it 11 was -- even before that, it was Byas Road. See, even before 12 the -- 13 MR. KUYPER: I think -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- Beech. 15 MR. KUYPER: -- if you asked the Kerr County 16 residents if they know where Beech Road is or Byas Ranch 17 Road, more of them are going to know where Beech Road is. 18 And that's -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I had a -- when we 20 were doing the 911 changes, I had a lady and a husband 21 lawyer team, retired from Houston, and they attacked me one 22 evening, and I had to ask them the question, you know, why 23 is this thing bothering you so much? And their answer was, 24 "Because our friends from Houston cannot find my house." 25 Well, let me tell you, I really don't care if their friends 6-9-03 78 1 can find their house. I don't care if they get any mail 2 ever, but what I do care about is if they have a heart 3 attack, an ambulance and this man right here can find them. 4 That's all I care about. So, you know, these arguments over 5 the silly things are just -- you know, it's gotten 6 ridiculous to me. I'm sorry, I may be offending you and I 7 apologize for that, but it's just -- when we're talking -- 8 we're talking about people's lives here, and it's extremely 9 serious stuff to us. 10 MR. AMERINE: I'd like to address one of the 11 concerns this gentleman has about maps, and especially First 12 Responder maps that we provide to the Sheriff's Department, 13 Kerrville Fire Department, police department, and our 14 volunteer fire departments. All the information that we 15 gather through road changes or address changes go into these 16 public maps. We provide them also to the Chamber of 17 Commerce for Kerrville, as well as some private mapping 18 organizations, so that they can update maps, like the James 19 Kraft map that's available. So, obviously, right now, if 20 this becomes effective -- and I think a point of 21 clarification might be necessary. These signs don't go up 22 until the address changes become effective at the end of the 23 year, but prior to that time, all this public information 24 will be made available to all these photographers, and these 25 maps will be updated and it will not be, other than a minor 6-9-03 79 1 inconvenience, difficult for people to find these locations. 2 That's the whole point. I mean, I think we're missing the 3 point. If we were making it more difficult to find these 4 for our public safety officials, we wouldn't be doing it. 5 So, I just thought that clarification might help the Court. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you very much, sir. We 7 have a motion and second. Is there any further question or 8 discussion by the Court? If not, all in favor, signify by 9 raising your right hand. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. 14 MS. HARDIN: I do -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: We are now down to our normal 16 break time -- I'm sorry. 17 MS. HARDIN: I would like to make one comment 18 on the two that are in Bill's area that have a number on 19 them. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah? 21 MS. HARDIN: The two portions of old Highway 22 16, that -- those two roads have never had a proper name. I 23 would like to know if it was okay for us to go ahead and 24 install those signs on those two reads. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have no problem. 6-9-03 80 1 MS. HARDIN: Do you have a problem with that? 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I have no problem, as 3 long as we get notice. 4 MS. HARDIN: Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, now he makes a 6 comment. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: She asked a question. I 8 thought it was interesting to just sit and watch, Buster. 9 (Laughter.) I do strongly agree that all duplications need 10 to be ended. It does cause a serious problem for us. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thank you. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now we see. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: We're a bit past our normal 14 break time. We'll stand in recess until 10 minutes before 15 11:00. 16 (Recess taken from 10:39 a.m. to 10:50 a.m.) 17 - - - - - - - - - - 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We'll reconvene the 19 Commissioners Court meeting scheduled for this date, after 20 having been in recess for 10 to 15 minutes. It's a little 21 bit after 10 minutes before 11:00. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Wait, did Irene leave for 23 the day? 24 (Discussion off the record.) 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Before the press left, I 6-9-03 81 1 just wanted to make sure what I mean to do in my precinct 2 with the burn ban is next, which is continue the current 3 suspension until -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I'll recognize you at the 5 appropriate time. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Thank you, Judge. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Not at this time, okay? Okay. 8 Next item, 1.9, consider and discuss and take appropriate 9 action to establish a minimum salary for Kerr County 10 employees. Commissioner Nicholson. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I put this on the 12 agenda for the sole purpose of beginning a dialogue about 13 what appropriate compensation should be for the lower paid 14 employees. I don't -- I don't expect that we'll resolve or 15 come to a conclusion or consensus on this issue today, but 16 as we're gearing up the budget period, I'd like to talk 17 about it some more. The issue -- part of the issue is, 18 should we pay our lowest paid employees a decent wage? A -- 19 a living wage? I don't know what the correct term for it 20 is. It's something above the federal-mandated minimum 21 wages. And I gave you all some information here that -- I'm 22 sure you're aware of it already, but it gets it in a concise 23 form. We have employees who are eligible for public 24 assistance. And some examples of facts about public 25 assistance is that, considering a family of three and 6-9-03 82 1 they're earning $19,536 a year or less, they're eligible for 2 food stamps. That same family, if they're earning $20,304 a 3 year or less, they're eligible for Medicaid. A family of 4 three earning $30,520 a year or less is eligible for 5 C.H.I.P., which is the Child Health Insurance Program that 6 provides very low-cost medical insurance for -- for poor 7 people. 8 I got -- I got my facts a little bit wrong 9 here on the -- on the information I gave you about the Kerr 10 County employees. I did -- I was not aware that -- that the 11 employee count of 305 or so includes Juvenile Detention 12 Facility employees, so I've had to go back in and take those 13 employees out. I don't know very much about that, but 14 anyhow, approximately 50 of our 264 County employees, or 15 about 20 percent, are paid less than the salary level for 16 eligibility for food stamps and/or Medicaid. I don't feel 17 good about that at all. The second point I made there was 18 -- has to do with the number of employees that opt not to 19 purchase county health insurance, and it's approximately -- 20 approximately 251 of the 304 now. I'm back to the number 21 that includes the Juvenile Facility employees. 22 Approximately 251 of 304 employees opt not to have dependent 23 care. Now, that could be because they have no dependents, 24 or it could be because they have a spouse that has a good 25 insurance policy and they opt not to pay the premium for the 6-9-03 83 1 county policy, but assuredly, there's many employees who 2 have dependents who are not covered otherwise, and they opt 3 not to buy the dependent care insurance. 4 I think we're really dealing with two issues 5 here. We're dealing with the compensation level of our 6 lowest paid employees, and we're dealing with the -- with 7 our medical insurance premiums and our medical insurance 8 coverage. I don't have a real good, warm feeling about our 9 medical insurance, either. I don't -- I don't have any 10 facts to back up that -- that suspicion that it's too costly 11 or not adequate, but I think it's something we need to be 12 paying some attention to. I'm just suggesting that I think 13 it's not good public policy for a government entity to pay 14 people such a low salary that they would qualify for public 15 assistance. I wonder -- you know, one of the issues here in 16 Kerr County is our hourglass society. We've got a 17 substantial number of people that have a lot of resources, a 18 lot of wealth, and then we have hardly any middle class, and 19 we have a substantial number of people who are poor. And 20 the answer to that is better jobs and higher wages, and 21 perhaps government should be a leader in that effort and 22 pay -- pay better minimum salaries. 23 I also believe -- I've got some data, but not 24 complete data. I believe that we're probably the lowest 25 paying government entity in Kerr County. We pay a whole lot 6-9-03 84 1 less than U.G.R.A. We pay less than City of Kerrville and 2 other government agencies. Maybe some of them pay as little 3 as we do, but it's a concern I've got. I think it's got 4 something to do with -- with basic fundamental principles 5 about how government ought to act. That's the end of my 6 sermon. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll just make a brief 8 comment on that, that basically -- I mean, I totally support 9 what you're saying. And I think the Court, since I've been 10 on it, has gone through two, you know, pretty significant 11 revisions upward of salaries to try to catch up. And the 12 problem we encounter every time we go up, so does everybody 13 else go up; I don't know that we're really gaining 14 percentage-wise on the other entities, though do I know 15 that -- I think our employees are better off now than they 16 were several years ago because of some upgrades. It's a 17 real tough problem, and it's a budget -- it comes into the 18 budget issue. And I think we're going through this budget 19 year as having one of our real -- I mean, our first real, I 20 guess, look at what our last increase package does to the 21 budget because of some of the longevity and other increases 22 that we built into -- automatic increases in an effort to 23 try to increase them. So, you know, to me, this continues 24 to be a -- something we need to look at and try to improve 25 within our -- within the budget parameters that we're given, 6-9-03 85 1 or that we operate -- choose to operate under. 2 Second thing is that I totally agree about 3 the other political entities, that I would like to pay as 4 much as they do. But even more so than that, what really 5 gets me and has for a while, and we don't have a lot of 6 direct control over, is people that we -- they kind of have 7 a -- a working relationship with the County where we help 8 fund some of their operations; they pay more than we do. 9 And there are several entities where that takes place in 10 Kerr County, and U.G.R.A. you mentioned. Another one is 11 911. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Appraisal District. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Appraisal District is 14 another one. And, you know, we've always had, I guess, 15 difficulty reconciling that, but it certainly is a concern. 16 And I guess my -- my final comment is -- I don't mean this 17 to be at all a negative, but the numbers are -- I find are 18 interesting from -- that you -- you know, the food stamp and 19 Medicaid and all that. What that really shows me more than 20 anything else is how the federal government -- which those 21 are all federal numbers -- have pushed those levels up 22 substantially. Now, depending on, you know, circumstances, 23 of course, but $19,536 as poverty level, you know, I think 24 -- I think a lot -- I have a problem with that. I don't 25 think people are destitute at that number. Is that enough 6-9-03 86 1 money? No. Could I live on that amount? No. But to say 2 that that's absolutely poverty, I think, shows signs of what 3 has happened in Washington, of -- I don't want a political 4 battle, but one of the political parties has pushed this up 5 so they can broaden what they call people that are in 6 poverty, and I think it has not a whole lot to do with 7 reality. But, that aside, I think we still should do what 8 we can to get County employees on par with other 9 governmental entities in our county and in the area. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd like to commend 11 Commissioner Nicholson for doing this research and putting 12 it on the table. It's a point that we have to grapple with. 13 I mentioned to him this morning before court that I think it 14 was in 1995, when my wife and I still owned and operated the 15 Mountain Sun, that we did a feature story about this very 16 topic, and the reason was because it had been called to our 17 attention, as this Court has had it called many times since, 18 the turnover in the Sheriff's Department. And I know Rusty 19 constantly reminds us about the disparity between the deputy 20 in the City of Kerrville Police Department. I know the 21 Court's dealt with it a couple times and made an effort, but 22 it hasn't succeeded in overcoming it. I'm not sure how we 23 do it, but I think we should try. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have a good comment. 25 I know you find that hard to believe, but I do. I also 6-9-03 87 1 commend Number 4 for bringing it to the table. We've talked 2 about it numerous times through the years, and I agree with 3 it 100 percent. I think that our employees need to be taken 4 care of, first and foremost. This thing of us coming along 5 every year and -- and giving everybody a two-bumps raise and 6 -- and all those things, that's wonderful, but that doesn't 7 do anything, in my opinion. My opinion is -- is that we 8 need to somehow come in at the beginning, you know, starting 9 -- what is it, 12-1? Is that what everybody comes in, is a 10 12-1? That 12-1 needs to go to a 14-1. That's where -- 11 that's the only way you're going to do anything good for the 12 employees, is that they come in at the beginning, and then I 13 would assume that everything else bumps up as you go along. 14 And I don't know how that affects future budgets, and -- I'm 15 sure it's tremendous. But in order to really help 16 employees, you start them out bigger, I think. And, once 17 again, be happy to -- be happy to sit down with y'all and 18 take a look at it, see how we can do it. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Couple of 20 observations from my human resource management experience. 21 One of them is that turnover is very expensive. There's a 22 shutdown and start-up, loss of momentum costs and retraining 23 costs, a lot of hidden costs there that -- that's more 24 expensive than you realize, that I -- and than I realize. 25 And then the second point is -- well, just that one. That's 6-9-03 88 1 all for now. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Turnover. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: I think it's interesting to 4 note -- 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Excuse me, Judge. I 6 would like to make one other point. And this is not 7 directed at any of our departments or -- that report to 8 Commissioners Court, or the elected officials, but I would 9 much -- if I'm manager of a group of people, I would much 10 rather find ways to live within my salary budget by 11 having -- by using technology and training and other ways to 12 cut the total number of people, and pay the -- I'm not 13 talking about laying anybody off. I'm just saying reduce 14 the number of people that I need to run that department, and 15 doing that through attrition and paying those remaining 16 employees more. I could keep the same -- I found that to be 17 true very often, that by closely examining the way you do 18 work, you can get it down to fewer people, and then the -- 19 everybody gets a little bigger slice of the pie. That's 20 all. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: One observation that I would 22 make about the so-called poverty levels or Medicaid levels. 23 While our federal government talks about establishing 24 these -- these guideposts and then measuring state and local 25 government employees by it, especially in this time of -- of 6-9-03 89 1 uncertainty on the international scene, you would be 2 surprised at the number of the members of our armed forces 3 who are eligible and, in fact, rely upon public assistance. 4 And I'm talking about the Snuffy, the grunt down there in 5 the trenches. That's the guy, or the gal, as the case may 6 be, that's having to rely upon public assistance. Now, 7 granted, your active duty military personnel have some 8 benefits, but even taking those into account, there are a 9 number of them, a significant number of them, that are 10 eligible and rely upon public assistance. And I'm -- I'm a 11 little disturbed when the feds point the finger at us when 12 they haven't got their own house in order. 13 Now, that doesn't solve our problem here; I 14 understand that. But from a budgetary impact standpoint, on 15 the immediate horizon, obviously, if there's going to be a 16 significant increase in the pay levels, that leaves only one 17 or two solutions. The money's going to have to come from 18 somewhere else, be that from other areas of the budget or 19 from additional revenue sources, or you work within the 20 available personnel compensation levels and spread that 21 among fewer numbers. I mean, that's the mathematics of it, 22 and there's -- I don't think there's any other way you can 23 look at it. And I'm the guy that's got to do that budget, 24 so if -- if you folks have any real bright ideas about 25 either of those directions, why, I'd sure be willing to 6-9-03 90 1 listen. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You do it; we vote on it. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, I think we've 4 done what I set about to do. We got the issue on the table, 5 and I hear a consensus that says, yeah, we need to think 6 about this some more, and that's what I set about to do. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. I agree with 8 you, Commissioner, and thank you. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Any member of the Court have 10 anything further to offer on this item? If not, we'll move 11 on to the next item, consider and discuss approval to ask 12 for RFP's for regular recurring services, such as heating 13 and air-conditioning, electrical, plumbing. I put this on 14 the agenda because, like a lot of the outside goods and 15 services that we utilize, I think we have an obligation to 16 the taxpayers of this county to request maximum 17 participation in the offering of those goods and services to 18 this county on a competitive basis, and that's why it's 19 there. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mentioned to you 21 earlier today this was on the agenda, this exact item, 22 earlier this year, and I'm referring to the Maintenance 23 Director to find out where we are on going out for RFQ's. 24 MR. HOLEKAMP: County Attorney just walked 25 out. I gave him the forms that we had previously to -- to 6-9-03 91 1 cut them down a little bit shorter version, and I don't know 2 where we're at, quite frankly. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: I think a lot of the 4 difficulty is putting together the RFP itself, and I -- I 5 understand that can be a considerable effort, especially the 6 first time around. I think it's worth the extra effort to 7 do it right the first time so that you don't get beat and 8 bit up, and then the next time you got to reinvent the wheel 9 anyway. So, I would -- I would suggest that if the action 10 is authorized to go out for Request for Proposals, I would 11 work with the County Attorney and the various -- for 12 example, on the -- the recurring services on this item, with 13 the Maintenance Supervisor, and then with the other folks 14 who are directly affected by the other items. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we need to get 16 them done, and it's -- I mean, we've -- we either certainly 17 have a discussion, and probably have a court order earlier 18 this year to do it. So -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you think the 20 previous court order had these -- listed these three? 21 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, it did. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: As I told Commissioner Letz 24 earlier, I, frankly -- apparently I've got a faulty memory, 25 which at my age I think is probably excusable. But -- 6-9-03 92 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No comment. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: But -- I fully expect a 3 comment. But I, frankly, don't remember specifically RFP's 4 on these recurring items, but if it's there, why, it's there 5 and we don't need action on this item. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think action again is 7 good. 8 MR. HOLEKAMP: I think -- excuse me. I'm 9 sorry, Kathy. I believe what it was, it was referred to the 10 County Attorney on that action by Commissioners Court for 11 them to shorten the -- the specifications for the RFP's. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You know, I think we can 13 still -- I mean, it doesn't hurt to have, in this case, a 14 second one to make sure the importance of it, you know, to 15 everybody. But I will mention, if the Judge is going to be 16 -- going to get involved with this, which I think is great, 17 the problem we had last time, we had the County Attorney 18 prepare the last RFQ -- or RFP, I guess is what it is. I 19 guess -- we hope they qualify if they're submitting 20 proposals. That we tried to cover all the bases, and the 21 document got so confused we ran off all the bidders. So, 22 it's really -- it has got to be almost a one- to two-page 23 document. If you can do it and start thinking of all the 24 scenarios as to what happens to a Sunday call, what happens 25 to an after-hours -- you know, all the different things, and 6-9-03 93 1 if it's a plumber or if it's a plumber's helper. You know, 2 there's so many different things they're bidding on. Then 3 you get the materials. It became difficult to make it 4 simple. But that definitely was the problem last time, is 5 that it was too complicated; we didn't get enough response. 6 So, that was kind of the charge I think the Court gave the 7 County Attorney and Maintenance, on these three anyway, to 8 try to simplify the process, but yet make it worthwhile. 9 And I think the other thing, there -- of course, there are 10 some state law requirements to do business with the County, 11 and I believe that people have to meet certain minimum 12 requirements as well. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: They should have to meet those 14 requirements whether or not they're a successful bidder or 15 whether they're just contacted off of a list or by some 16 method other than -- than a bid process. Wouldn't you 17 agree? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. But I think you 19 also -- we just need to make sure -- maybe we are, but 20 workers comp and some of these other things that are 21 required, I believe by state law, we need to make sure that 22 that's clearly set forth in the bid package. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Those are -- those 24 are -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't know. 6-9-03 94 1 JUDGE TINLEY: -- mandatory requirements. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Bonding, things of that 3 nature. We just need to make sure that the minimum 4 requirements are real clearly set forth on there. I think 5 it also needs to be clearly set out that if you're not on 6 the list, you know, you're not going to get the work. I 7 mean, so we, I mean, try to really encourage people to get 8 multiple companies to do it, so we can hopefully accept all 9 of them and go with the company that's the cheapest. And -- 10 you know, do what Road and Bridge basically does; accept all 11 the bids so we have a -- you know, a group of people that we 12 can work with on a priority basis. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm still curious 14 about the previous court order. Do you have a copy of it? 15 MR. HOLEKAMP: I'll have to look for it, but 16 I thought there was. Nadene would probably be able to -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm kind of like the 18 Judge; I remember -- I remember dealing with this and doing 19 it, but I don't remember specifically what we did. Let's do 20 it again. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move that we, I guess, 22 approve the preparation of the Request for Proposals for 23 heating and air conditioning as one, electrical as one, and 24 plumbing as another, and to have those RFP's brought back to 25 the Court for approval. 6-9-03 95 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do they go through the 2 County Attorney? Is that what you're saying? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: At this point, I just 4 want them done. I'm authorizing -- I don't care where they 5 go. Just bring something back so we can start working on 6 them. And I would say that, because there is a budget 7 impact, we need to have these back by the end of June. I 8 don't think it's that big of a project. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: For you it's not, right? 11 Motion made and seconded by Commissioners Letz and Williams, 12 respectively, that the Court approve seeking Requests for 13 Proposal packages for heating and air-conditioning, 14 electrical, and plumbing, and that the -- that the same be 15 prepared by the end of June and -- and resubmitted to the 16 Court after that date for consideration. Any further 17 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 18 your right hand. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 MR. HOLEKAMP: I just have a quick question 23 on it. Could I make a comment? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure. 25 MR. HOLEKAMP: Is this by advertisement in 6-9-03 96 1 the newspaper? Or by sending packets to all of those in 2 the -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: All we want is the proposal at 4 this time. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just the document. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just want a document that 7 we can approve. 8 MR. HOLEKAMP: I thought you said you wanted 9 this all by -- 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We want the package for 11 us to look at. 12 MR. HOLEKAMP: Oh, you don't want it all by 13 the end of June? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Hopefully our first 15 meeting in July, we'll approve them and authorize them to be 16 sent out or advertised in whatever way, probably, is 17 recommended by you. 18 MR. HOLEKAMP: Okay. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Next item, consider and 20 discuss approval to ask for RFP's for insurance of various 21 types; health, physical loss and casualty, liability and law 22 enforcement liability, and workers comp. Same reasoning 23 applies to this item as it does to the recurring services or 24 any other. I think the -- we owe it to the taxpayers to 25 seek as many proposals on a competitive basis as -- as we 6-9-03 97 1 can get. I realize that, on the insurance, it's a little 2 different than calling a plumber. You know, with the 3 plumbing, you're concerned about his regular rate, his 4 overtime/holiday/weekend rate. And insurance, of course, 5 the law does allow you to do things a little bit 6 differently, because it's hard to find apples to compare 7 with apples. On the health policy, for example, two 8 different companies may be a little different; the 9 deductible may be a little different, surgical schedule of 10 benefits may be a little different, but you've just got to 11 do an evaluation of that. You can't directly compare one 12 entire policy against the other, because no two are exactly 13 alike, but it gives you the opportunity to have as many 14 proposals in front of you. I -- I would hope to avoid 15 something like occurred at the last meeting of 2002, in 16 which it was necessary that an emergency meeting of the 17 Court be called because it was discovered that law 18 enforcement liability coverage expired at midnight on the 19 31st of December, and no continuing coverage was in place. 20 And, in my opinion, you were literally held hostage at that 21 point. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, that happened 23 two years in a row. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't think that's fair to 25 the taxpayers. 6-9-03 98 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, I, for one, 3 totally agree with that. The only question I have is, this 4 really doesn't affect going out for RFP's. Do you envision 5 bringing in an insurance consultant at some point to help 6 explain these policies? Because this -- one of the problems 7 I've always had with insurance is I don't understand what 8 they're -- you know, what they give me on a personal level, 9 much less when they get into this type of a deal. 10 Commissioner Nicholson here, he -- I think he has more 11 experience from a private sector standpoint. Hopefully, 12 he'll be able to answer some of that. But, you know, if we 13 can find someone that we trust and they're reasonable in 14 price to advise us, I think it would be of benefit. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't know -- it's 16 probably impractical to do this off a population of 300 17 employees or so, but what -- what's typical in large 18 corporations is they'll lay out a policy to say, "This is 19 the coverage we're going to buy. What are you going to 20 charge for a..." Dictate the terms of the policy. We're 21 probably not going to have the resources and sophistication 22 to do that. We might try to find somebody in the community 23 that -- I don't know, maybe that's a retired insurance 24 executive, and get some help, advice on it. Let me go on to 25 say -- 6-9-03 99 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I thought we were 2 relying on Bryan Finley to advise us through this jungle. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: Can I make a comment? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: You have a comment? 5 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 7 MR. TOMLINSON: The only thing I would -- I 8 would like to see the Court do is, you know, when we do go 9 out for proposals, to wait until sometime after the budget 10 year. I mean, after the budget process is almost finished. 11 Because, I mean, I'm the one that has to gather all the 12 information to give to whoever writes the proposal, and my 13 experience with -- with bidding or insurance is that you -- 14 it's hard to get quotes until you're closer to the end of 15 your policy year. Our policy year expires December 31st. 16 And four years ago -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On that, do all of 18 them -- I know over the past six years, anyway, we've tried 19 to get all of the policies to expire on the same date. Are 20 they all at -- 21 MR. TOMLINSON: They're all -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- December 31st now? 23 MR. TOMLINSON: They're all the same date. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Before, they were all 25 scattered, as I recall. 6-9-03 100 1 MR. TOMLINSON: That's correct. And the 2 reason we picked December 31st was that most workers comp 3 coverages that -- that are on an annual basis for -- from 4 January 1 through December 31st, and we -- at that time, our 5 coverage was with TAC, and that's when their policy year 6 was. So, we were having a problem getting -- when we -- 7 when we did go out for bids, we were having a problem 8 getting bids, because a lot -- most companies like to bid on 9 the whole package, because there's some economies of scale 10 in -- in bidding the whole package. Because, like, some -- 11 some companies specialize in -- in areas, like in law 12 enforcement liability or workers comp. So, if you offer 13 them the coverage or the -- you know, the risk that they are 14 -- that they specialize in, then they might give -- they 15 will tend to give you a better price or better premium on -- 16 on that specific coverage if you -- if you offer them the 17 whole thing, rather than -- rather than bid, you know, 18 property by itself and workers comp by itself and -- and any 19 other coverage by itself. 20 So, I mean, I -- I stood here four years ago 21 and I -- and told the Court then that I -- I did not feel 22 qualified to, first of all, write any RFP for insurance, and 23 I definitely didn't feel like I was qualified to review -- 24 review those -- those proposals and make recommendations to 25 this Court. And I totally agree with what Commissioner Letz 6-9-03 101 1 said about -- about this issue, and that I know -- I know 2 enough about -- about insurance and the coverage for the 3 county to know that I don't know enough. And -- and so 4 that's why I don't -- I think that -- that it's -- that it's 5 advisable to have someone that does not benefit from -- from 6 the bidding process. In other words, someone that does not 7 have a financial benefit to gain from -- from bidding on our 8 coverage to be that person to -- to guide us in the right 9 directions. And that's exactly what we did four years ago. 10 We -- we had someone that -- that specializes in -- in that 11 process. And I know -- and the Judge alluded to the fact a 12 while ago that there -- you know, policies in different 13 companies are written different, and you always have that 14 outside chance that you're going to have -- have some gaps 15 in coverage, especially in liability. 16 And, I mean, we're talking about three 17 different types of liability for the county. One is general 18 liability. Another one is -- is law enforcement, and the 19 other one is public officials. And judging by what I 20 remember his conversation was with the Court, our 21 consultant, was that you have to be so careful in liability 22 coverage, in that -- in that you make sure that -- that each 23 policy is written where you don't have those gaps. And 24 that's why -- I mean, that's exactly the reason that -- that 25 I don't think that -- I know that I'm not qualified to 6-9-03 102 1 make -- to review those and make those recommendations. So, 2 I'm -- I'm just -- I just think that that's -- that's the 3 thing to do. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tommy? 5 MR. TOMLINSON: Go ahead. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Kind of a quick aside 7 question, and it's something that Commissioner Nicholson 8 brought up about us, that we have a relatively small pool 9 when we go out for insurance. Aren't there some sort of 10 pools that we could join? I know, like, school districts 11 have -- they consolidated multiple districts to get their 12 numbers up, to get the rates down, or at least more stable. 13 And I know there's legislation that I think this Court 14 envisioned -- anyway, supported -- that didn't get through 15 the Legislature, to be able to let us piggyback some of the 16 state insurance. But isn't there something we can do to 17 help stabilize our rates like that? 18 MR. TOMLINSON: Are you talking about health 19 insurance? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All insurance. It seems 21 like our -- 22 MR. TOMLINSON: Now, health insurance -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But health probably the 24 most. It varies the most from year to year. 25 MR. TOMLINSON: My experience is that it's 6-9-03 103 1 almost totally based on your experience. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mm-hmm. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: And our -- our experience is 4 not the best. And so that -- so, from past experience, I 5 mean, the sure way to make a difference in -- in cost is to 6 change coverage. And, I mean, the Court -- the Court has 7 not wanted to do that in the past. And I -- you know, I've 8 seen the same thing happen in Bandera, and I just -- and in 9 the bidding process that we've gone through in the past, I 10 just have not seen any significant change in -- in dollars, 11 unless you -- unless I make a significant change in the 12 coverage. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it just seems to me 14 that -- I mean, county government is, I think, pretty much 15 the same statewide. We have the -- because of the law 16 enforcement issue and because of the Road and Bridge issue, 17 there's two pretty dangerous professions there that are also 18 high stress, you know. Now, that's not to mention other 19 elected officials and employees too, but those two really 20 stand out in my mind as, one, running heavy equipment, which 21 is dangerous; the other, the stress level of being a law 22 enforcement person and what you're required to do isn't 23 healthy. So, it seems that if we can join a much larger 24 pool somewhere that doesn't have those types of -- that high 25 potential for those categories, it would help us. 6-9-03 104 1 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, we have -- we did have 2 an opportunity -- I forget what it was, but it's been three 3 or four years ago that we were at this juncture, and -- and 4 we -- we got the insurance people at TAC to come visit with 5 us, and it was on an informal basis. And, you know, we 6 offered them all of our experience information and -- and 7 what -- you know, there was a thought that we could be in 8 the TAC pool for health coverage as well as, you know, 9 property and casualty and liability, and they just flat 10 refused to take us. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But TAC is that pool 12 you're talking about. 13 MR. TOMLINSON: And, I mean, our experience 14 was so bad that -- that Blue Cross/Blue Shield would not 15 even talk to us about coverage. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Pretty bad when your 17 association that you're part owners in doesn't want you. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Why is our 19 experience so bad? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Going to be bad last 21 year. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Major, major. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Major health situation. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Nothing we're doing 25 wrong. We just got unlucky. 6-9-03 105 1 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah, and that's exactly 2 right. We just -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And we were doing pretty 4 good, but then last year was a pretty bad year. We had a 5 couple of good years and rates kind of went down. The last 6 year was horrible from the current standpoint. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Big-ticket 8 incidents? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Multiple big-tickets. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Like the one we were 11 talking about earlier this morning. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: The one that we tried to talk 13 about earlier this morning. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Tried to. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: But I -- the first comment 16 was -- 17 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll talk about it next time. 18 MR. TOMLINSON: -- about the RFP is that I 19 would like plenty of time, because I know that, you know, 20 it's a mammoth job. When you get through with all the 21 information that -- that you have to have for -- for a 22 bidder to make a reasonable stab at a bid, you have a stack 23 of paperwork that's -- that's like this. And so, I mean, 24 this is budget time, and -- and, you know, my office is -- 25 is part of that process. And so it's -- I mean, it could -- 6-9-03 106 1 it could put a real strain on us to get it together and do 2 budget at the same time. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, am I hearing 4 this is something we could get done before the December 31st 5 expiration date, but it would be a burden to try to get it 6 done by September 1st budget date? 7 MR. TOMLINSON: I mean, finalized by then, 8 yes. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Once again, I'm only 11 asking for the preparation of the document so that we can do 12 this. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: I think I have a philosophical 14 difference with the Auditor. I realize that there was a 15 great deal of effort that has apparently gone into having 16 the expiration of all of these policies as of December 31st. 17 I think all the policies should expire as of the end of the 18 budget year. Because, number one, for budgetary purposes, 19 you can better calculate if you know what your cost is going 20 to be for the next year, not what your cost is going to be 21 for one quarter of the next year, and then you're subject to 22 being eaten alive for the next nine months. And, secondly, 23 you have a problem of -- you're committing funds of this 24 county beyond the period of time that you can lawfully do 25 so. So, I think -- I think those policies should expire on 6-9-03 107 1 September the 30th so that you can -- 2 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't object -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: -- deal with those two 4 problems. 5 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't object to the date. 6 I'm just -- I was explaining why it was December 31st. 7 And at the time when we were going through the process, we 8 had expiration dates year-round. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: February, March. 10 MR. TOMLINSON: And we were -- we were 11 constantly, you know, doing proposals for insurance. And -- 12 and, I mean, seems like that's what we did every month. And 13 so there was -- there had to be some point in time that we 14 chose to -- for that to happen. And I -- so I don't have 15 any -- December 31st is not a magic date. It just happened. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Did I understand you correctly 17 that -- that if you don't have a policy period that ends on 18 December 31, that TAC won't -- 19 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: -- won't consider you in their 21 workers comp? 22 MR. TOMLINSON: No. No, I didn't say that. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh. 24 MR. TOMLINSON: It just so happened that that 25 was the end of their policy year at that time. 6-9-03 108 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, okay. Okay. 2 MR. TOMLINSON: And so we -- we moved 3 everything to -- to coincide with that, with that date, so 4 that we could bid everything together, rather than bidding 5 workers comp by itself and then going to some other date to 6 bid the rest of it. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I mean, couldn't -- 8 I mean, it makes sense, what the Judge is saying, where you 9 go to September 30th from a budget standpoint, because 10 that's been a real problem the past few years, because the 11 insurance has varied so much and we just didn't know. But 12 couldn't we go -- start the process now and have the first 13 policy for a nine-month period, and then kick them up to a 14 year? Or -- you know. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: You can buy short-term -- a 16 short-term policy, if you like. And it may be higher. I 17 mean, there -- there may be -- from what I'm remembering, 18 when we did this, we had to buy -- we had to extend our 19 policy period for three months, for instance, and that -- 20 and that short-term per month was higher than -- than it 21 would have been on an annual basis. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's the only way we 23 can get to an -- 24 MR. TOMLINSON: Right. We have -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- earlier expiration 6-9-03 109 1 date, 'cause you can't go on a year and nine months, because 2 we can't commit for two years. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: We'd have to -- we'd have 4 to -- on December 31st, we would have to buy -- we'd have to 5 purchase a nine-month policy. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: That's not your only option. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Another option would be that 9 if you get a -- a commitment for a policy year October 1 10 through September 30, you could commit that coverage and 11 short-term cancel. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, yeah, you could. But 13 then -- 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Cancel three months 15 and write a new 12. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That's right. 17 MR. TOMLINSON: You could do that, yeah, 18 that's true. I don't know -- you know, I would be -- I 19 would want to make sure what we got back. I mean, I'd want 20 to know that -- that we actually got a third of -- or fourth 21 of -- of your annual premium. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: You're committing funds into a 23 new budget year, which you don't lawfully have the authority 24 to do. And if -- if you don't appropriate funds for that 25 purpose, it doesn't happen. 6-9-03 110 1 MR. TOMLINSON: I'm thinking about the amount 2 we've already paid. I mean, we've already prepaid to 3 December 31st, and so I'm concerned about the money that -- 4 that we've already prepaid and we're not going to use for -- 5 for October through December. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm concerned that money's 7 been paid for next budget year in this budget year. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think there's an 9 out, Judge. I think you can always -- you have the 10 opportunity to cancel the remaining term. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So we probably are 13 not illegal, but it doesn't sound like a good budgeting 14 practice. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Right. That's part of my 16 concern. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And the premium -- 18 the premium that may have been prepaid can be reallocated 19 or -- refunded or reallocated to the first three months of 20 the new policy year. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: That's -- well, that's 22 possible. You know, if you -- if you get the -- we might -- 23 I don't know. I don't know what their policy is on refunds. 24 I mean, that's something I'd want to know about. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Sounds like what I'm 6-9-03 111 1 hearing in all this is it isn't easy to do; it's difficult 2 to do, but there could be some significant efficiencies in 3 getting from here to there. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I think we owe it to the 5 taxpayers. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think we need to 7 pursue it. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think Judge 9 Tinley's right. It keeps us from shooting in the dark for 10 nine months, which we've been doing. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, I'm -- I'll move 12 that we -- we ask for Request for Proposals for insurance in 13 these four categories be brought to Commissioners Court 14 first meeting in July for approval. That's too soon? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I have a question 16 as to -- but that's a motion, so we can -- we can get to it 17 through discussion if it's seconded. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll second it. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion's been made and 20 seconded that Request for Proposals for the four listed 21 categories of insurance be prepared and brought before the 22 Court on the first meeting in July. Questions or comments? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My question is -- really 24 goes to who's going to prepare the RFP? Because I don't 25 think there's anyone in the county qualified. We don't have 6-9-03 112 1 an insurance expert. And, I mean, I'm just kind of 2 speaking -- Tommy said he isn't qualified. I don't mean to 3 speak for the County Attorney, who's sitting right in front 4 of me, I mean, if he's qualified to do insurance RFP's or 5 not. I mean, it's a -- as we talked earlier, this is one of 6 the most important things, you know, we do with our 7 employees, and we need to make sure we have this right from 8 a coverage standpoint. So, I mean, my gut feeling is we 9 need a consultant to help us with that, which we don't have 10 budgeted, you know, but I think we need to do it. I'm not 11 saying we don't need to do this. I'm just saying we're 12 getting into an area that I become very uncomfortable in 13 making a vote because I'm not an expert on insurance. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Commissioner, don't 15 we already have a consultant in place who is compensated out 16 of a piece of the premiums? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Our current carrier? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, I'm talking about 19 Mr. Finley. 20 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No? What, he doesn't 23 get -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He's our agent. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- a commission on 6-9-03 113 1 the insurance policies that we -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He represents an 3 insurance company. He represents -- I mean, he gets -- 4 yeah, he's biased. I mean -- 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- he's going to benefit 7 on the policies. I don't mean he's biased. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He's going to benefit 9 no matter what the policy is? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To me, we need someone 11 who is not going to try to be our agent as well. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: As we -- as we talk of the 13 messiah, he comes through the back door. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There he is right 15 there. Right on time, man. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: We couldn't have cued you any 17 better, Victor. 18 MR. UVALLE: Can I help? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: We're talking about proposals 20 for insurance. 21 MR. UVALLE: All right. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Preparing RFP's for insurance 23 and how difficult it is, and how expert guidance is needed. 24 And -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And you walk in the door. 6-9-03 114 1 MR. UVALLE: I can help you with that. I can 2 definitely help you. I got some sample bid specs that you 3 could use -- that every company could use to quote y'all 4 coverages. I got them in the car. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Even before Victor walked in, 6 it was my intention to indicate that -- you know, we're 7 asking for an RFP to be put together, and what I was 8 anticipating would be that possibly myself, the County 9 Attorney, the Auditor, and maybe the Treasurer gather from 10 whatever resources or sources that we could find, including 11 Victor and his crew, and make a stab at putting something 12 together and bringing it back here. Now, the fact that we 13 bring it back here -- that's all we've done, is brought it 14 back here. You know, if the Court at that point decides 15 that it needs to be reviewed by some insurance guru or other 16 expert, that's up to the Court at that time, but I think we 17 need to get started. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't have a problem 19 getting started. I think that -- but if we're really trying 20 to get this done by our budget year, we need to -- and the 21 Court feels we need a guru, we need the guru on board at our 22 next meeting, or as soon as possible thereafter. I mean, 23 because if we're to wait until the middle July to even get 24 the package prepared, and then you get -- I mean, there's no 25 way we'll have it by the budget. That's just -- it won't 6-9-03 115 1 happen. Anyway, I don't think -- I don't think we can get 2 them back that quick, out and back. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Victor? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can we? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Did you have a comment about 6 the timing? 7 MR. UVALLE: Yes. I was going to say, we 8 hate to see y'all go out for bids, but I don't think you're 9 going to have a problem with us, because most of your 10 coverages are with us. You will get all the information. 11 We have loss -- loss runs; they don't take that long to get 12 it for you. That's one good thing we do provide. We got 13 claims information, how many vehicles you got. We got 14 property locations with addresses, construction types, all 15 that information for y'all. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: What about from other 17 third-party potential vendors? 18 MR. UVALLE: They'll use that same 19 information to rate their -- to price it. And I think we -- 20 except for the law enforcement, I think we have everything 21 else we can help y'all with. You know, so you'll get 22 everything pretty fast from us. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: What sort of -- and I realize 24 you can't commit some third-party vendor. Once they have 25 the information in-hand, what's the normal time frame for 6-9-03 116 1 them to be able to give a response to a proposal? 2 MR. UVALLE: Part -- a fast one would be 3 three weeks; at least three weeks for the -- to have it 4 already and then work it for three weeks. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 6 MR. UVALLE: To get it back to you. That 7 will give you something. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Victor. 9 Ms. Uecker? 10 MS. UECKER: Well, I just wanted to -- just 11 for your information, the bill that Jonathan was talking 12 about, the insurance bill, I think, was House Bill 834. I 13 think TAC is the one that put a big old rock on it, because 14 it would -- it affected their pool. It would affect that 15 pool. Sorry, Victor. 16 MR. UVALLE: No, I'm familiar with that bill. 17 MS. UECKER: They're the ones that stopped 18 it. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Are you speaking about the -- 20 Senator Fraser's -- 21 MS. UECKER: Yes. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Senate Bill 817. 23 MS. UECKER: 817. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: That popped in state employee 25 health coverage. 6-9-03 117 1 MS. UECKER: Exactly. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: One of the -- one of the 3 representatives on the legislative side at TAC that I talked 4 to told me personally that they were not taking an official 5 position on that bill or its companion, because -- 6 MS. UECKER: For good reason. Because -- 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Because that -- you know, 8 they -- it was a two-edged sword for them. They were in the 9 business on the one hand, and they had some county residents 10 that were in support of it on the other hand. So, he told 11 me -- I can't give you his name right now. I could probably 12 go look it up. 13 MS. UECKER: You mean at TAC? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Pardon? 15 MS. UECKER: At TAC? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. He's one of the 17 Legislative bunch at TAC. 18 MS. UECKER: Carey Boethel? No, it wouldn't 19 be. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: I -- I don't recall it off the 21 top of my head right now, but he me told me TAC did not take 22 an official position on that bill, for or against. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, the -- on the table, 24 we're going to have this back by July 14th? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: You can ask for it, yeah. 6-9-03 118 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, I'll ask. Not 2 ask -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You got a second, I 4 got a motion. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Motion and second. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is exciting. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Does any -- 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Only comment I'd like to 10 make, Judge, is I like your idea about having the year start 11 October to October. It -- 'cause it's almost -- well, it is 12 pretty well impossible to figure out budget, such as this 13 year. Even though our insurance didn't go up since last 14 January, when department heads are trying to figure their 15 budget, mine alone makes it look like it went up over 16 $200,000 this year, compared to what was in my budget for 17 it, and it really hasn't changed since January. So, I think 18 to where we can prepare our budget efficiently, we need it 19 October. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: For budgeting purposes, it 21 makes a tremendous difference, I think. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So -- go ahead. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Tommy, could you 24 tell me roughly what our total annual insurance bill is in 25 these four categories? 6-9-03 119 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Victor can. 2 MR. TOMLINSON: I mean, I -- 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think I'd have to 4 go to each department and add it up. I can't find a total. 5 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, are you including 6 workers comp? 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. Two kinds of 8 liability. 9 MR. TOMLINSON: It's probably -- I would say 10 it's $300,000. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: For -- that's 12 employee medical? 13 MR. TOMLINSON: Not including health 14 insurance. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Not including health? 17 MR. TOMLINSON: Not including health 18 insurance. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We're talking large 20 numbers. Big chunk of numbers. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: You're talking about over one 22 and a half million dollars. I can -- I can run those 23 numbers in my head right as we sit here. 1.2, 1.3 for 24 health. I saw 100 get slapped right on last December on law 25 enforcement. Then you got the physical loss and workers 6-9-03 120 1 comp -- the workers comp, how much is it, Victor? 2 MR. UVALLE: 178, estimated. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We're already way 4 beyond one and a half million. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Just -- just a 6 general statement, Judge. I like your approach on the 7 previous one and this one, and the next one we're going to 8 discuss about getting RFP's and try to get -- bring some 9 competition and some -- some efficiencies into these 10 numbers. So, even though it appears difficult on any of the 11 three of them, I'm supportive of them. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Nothing -- we've done the 13 same on both of the top two. We've done this in the past. 14 That's how we always do insurance. It's how -- it's just 15 how often we do insurance, and changing schedules. So, I 16 think it's -- you know, it's every -- probably every three 17 or four years, we go through the exercise. It needs to be 18 done every three or four years. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Right. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or 21 discussion? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is due back by 7/14; 23 that will not make it on the next agenda. Do you want to 24 move the date to 7/7 so it can be on our agenda? Is that my 25 motion? 6-9-03 121 1 MS. SOVIL: By July 14th? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's the meeting. It 3 has to be in here by the 7th; that's the agenda date. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'll change the 5 motion to be in here by the 7th. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, so it can get on the 7 agenda. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further discussion or 10 questions? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 11 your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Next item, 16 consider and discuss approval as ask for RFP's for following 17 services: Computer, telephone, and technical services. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Same date? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes. 22 MR. TOMLINSON: I have a question about the 23 telephone part. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did we get a second? 25 We can't ask questions unless -- okay. 6-9-03 122 1 MR. TOMLINSON: What -- are you talking about 2 equipment maintenance? Or -- or telephone? Is there -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Technical services mainly is 4 what I'm speaking of. 5 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, the County doesn't own 6 this telephone system, so there's really nothing to 7 maintain. I mean, we have -- we have a rental agreement 8 with Kerrville Telephone Company. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Setting up of the voice mail 10 circuits and all of that sort of stuff? 11 MR. TOMLINSON: Mm-hmm. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All that's done by the phone 13 company? 14 (Mr. Tomlinson nodded.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Good. That will make it that 16 much less, then. 17 MR. TOMLINSON: I mean, you have to have -- I 18 mean, there needs to be someone that -- that knows how to 19 run the system. I mean, operate the -- the telephones. But 20 as far as the technical maintenance of the system, that's 21 their responsibility. I mean, we -- if you have a, you 22 know, phone on your desk that -- that goes out, you just 23 call and they brings us another one. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: What if you need to reprogram 25 that phone? 6-9-03 123 1 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, you know, they will -- 2 they will -- there's certain things that they will 3 reprogram. I'm not -- I'm not real clear on what it is that 4 they will do, but there -- there is a computerized system, 5 and what has to do with re -- reprogramming the computer 6 part of it, they will do. I mean, as far as your individual 7 programming of your individual phone, then no, they won't do 8 that. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, would -- okay. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm just speaking about 11 whatever's not covered under existing lease-slash-purchase 12 and/or maintenance agreements that we've already got in 13 place and paid for. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think we need to -- 15 I think we can clarify what we're talking about here a 16 little bit more. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, on the computer, 19 what are we talking about, and what are we asking the RFP to 20 cover? Who we're going out for services on for computer? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: We currently have a -- a 22 service dealing with computer information technology and so 23 forth. 24 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, part -- part of the 25 system we -- we already have maintenance on. I mean, the -- 6-9-03 124 1 the courthouse-wide system is -- most of that equipment is 2 IBM equipment, and we -- when we purchased that -- that 3 equipment, we purchased -- we purchased a -- I think it was 4 five or six years maintenance on that -- on that equipment. 5 So, what -- if that equipment goes down, we -- you know, we 6 have to contact IBM for them to come in and deal with it, 7 and they will either -- they will either fix it on the spot, 8 or they'll bring something in to replace it. That's what it 9 was. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, I mean -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: That's fine. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: But that -- that part of it 13 does not need to be in the -- in the agreement. And I think 14 that's what Commissioner Letz was talking about. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I certainly don't want to hire 16 somebody to do something we've already paid for. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are we looking -- I'm 18 just trying to figure out what the motion is to do. I mean, 19 so far, computer, drew a line through that. Telephone, drew 20 a line through that. Technical services? Is that technical 21 support for the computers? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We tried. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're talking about 24 computer equipment or computer maintenance? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I didn't make the motion. 6-9-03 125 1 I'm trying to figure out what the motion is that we're about 2 to vote on. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand where 4 you're coming from. Now you got me confused. Are we 5 talking about maintenance or purchase of equipment? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: We're not talking about the 7 purchase of equipment. We're not talking about the 8 maintenance of equipment. And, insofar as it's already 9 covered by service contracts, we're talking about assistance 10 with information technology to County employees, 11 departments, elected officials, and elements of county 12 government. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We currently have a 14 person on the payroll, do we not? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, we do. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Whose job 17 description is to give us help with information technology, 18 so we're talking about at least that. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, technical -- you want 21 an RFP for technical support for technology-related issues. 22 Okay, that's one of them. And the other one that I didn't 23 solicit is audit. Is that listed -- is that included in 24 technical services? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Audit? 6-9-03 126 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We go through an annual 2 audit, and we haven't gone out for -- we talked about, when 3 we went through the last one, whether we need to go out 4 for -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: I apologize for omitting that, 6 Commissioner Letz. I probably should have included an item 7 on that. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Isn't that under 9 Professional Services? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, it would be. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which is not required 12 for an RFP. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, there's -- you can -- 14 you certainly can do a Request for Qualifications on 15 professional services. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: RFQ. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: But -- it very well could be 18 the subject of another RFQ. But I -- I apologize for 19 omitting it, Commissioner Letz. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, you just had when 21 we were going out, and I don't know that it's good, bad, or 22 indifferent. I think it's good to do this, but if we do 23 them all at once, it may be a little overwhelming. 24 MR. TOMLINSON: I'd like to make a comment on 25 that, if I could. This is GASB 34 year. 6-9-03 127 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What did you say? 2 MR. TOMLINSON: I said this is GASB 34 year. 3 I have already worked with our current people on that 4 process, and we -- we have an understanding about what they 5 are going to require. And this is the conversion year for 6 Kerr County. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So this is not a good 8 year to change? Is that what you're saying in your 9 recommendation? 10 MR. TOMLINSON: Right. I mean, I'm -- I'm 11 going to have to rely on them to -- to help me do this, 12 because they know our records. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I withdraw my 14 second. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't want to train anybody 16 else. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We'll withdraw it. 18 We're not going to talk about it any more. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: You're in luck, because 20 audit's not even in here. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: I know, but I don't want it 22 to be, either. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: My understanding is GASB's got 24 to be fully -- fully effective by the end of this current 25 budget year that we're in; is that not correct? 6-9-03 128 1 MR. TOMLINSON: That's right. But -- but we 2 have -- we have to restate the beginning balances for -- for 3 this year also, so what I'm having to do -- that's what I'm 4 doing right now, is going back to last year at the end of 5 '02 and restating all the -- all the balances that were on 6 our financial statement as of that date. I have to make 7 sure that, since they were the auditors for that period, 8 then they are -- they're the ones that have to agree on what 9 the new balances are. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Maybe I'm missing the point 11 here, but that's not on the agenda, so we'll -- 12 MR. TOMLINSON: I know. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: -- we'll not talk about it 14 further. Back to the agenda item where we are. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I withdraw my second, 16 Judge. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: You withdraw your second? 18 Okay. Who made the motion? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I did. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: You made the motion? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir, and I'm 22 withdrawing it. I don't want to have anything to do with it 23 ever again. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: I see. Okay. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: May I still make a 6-9-03 129 1 comment on the computer portion of that? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: You certainly may, because 3 that's -- 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think a lot of it -- 5 not to beat around the bush, I think what we, as department 6 heads -- and Linda or Jannett can correct me if I'm wrong -- 7 our problem is, we need the services, and that we need 8 somebody that will be there, help us fix our computers, our 9 desktop ones that break, help us get the best prices to -- 10 to replace them. I still have viruses this morning. And we 11 need a service or a person that will be there for the county 12 when we need them and get our computers working. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We have an employee 14 that does that. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'll reiterate my same 16 -- same comment, okay? We have a problem there. Whether 17 it's not enough pay whatever it is, I don't know what it is, 18 but nobody in the county that I know of, any department, is 19 getting the services that we need. We're buying our own 20 computers on our own; we're fixing them on our own. I have 21 a deputy that's computer-knowledgeable that tries to fix 22 them, because we can't get the services that we should be 23 getting. That's what I'd like to see, if I can. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thank you for 25 focusing on the issue, Sheriff. At home, with my computer 6-9-03 130 1 system at home, my business, there's a person in the county 2 that provides that kind of service, and I pick the telephone 3 up and usually get my computer fixed over the telephone. If 4 not, that person comes out, charges me a very reasonable 5 price. Usually doesn't charge me when I talk to him on the 6 phone. And in the courthouse, I can't get that kind of 7 service. That is an issue. It's -- it may be an issue of 8 cost, I don't know, but it's certainly an issue of quality. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Make a motion on that one 10 point, and I'll second it. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I make a motion that 12 we use a Request for Proposals for information processing 13 services. Just that. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion's been made and 16 seconded that we approve the preparation of a Request for 17 Proposals for information processing services. I assume 18 you're talking about for courthouse employees, departments, 19 so forth? 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Kerr County. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any further discussion 22 or comments or questions? 23 MS. UECKER: Judge, I think it's actually 24 probably going to take more than one person. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, yeah. It's a 6-9-03 131 1 company. Whether it's one person or -- that would be -- 2 that would -- that answer would be -- 3 MS. UECKER: I mean, I don't know, 'cause I 4 haven't had anything to compare that with. But -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it would be a 6 consideration in the RFP. You can't -- you're not going to 7 limit it to one or a hundred. It's whatever they can do. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's a vendor -- 9 JUDGE TINLEY: That's a vendor issue. 10 MS. UECKER: Vendor issue. Okay, that's 11 fine. 12 MS. PIEPER: Now that we've handed our 13 budgets in, can we amend our budgets to reflect our services 14 that we can be getting now? 15 MS. UECKER: What? 16 MS. PIEPER: Well, if we're going to be able 17 to call somebody to come fix our -- I mean, if I'm 18 understanding this correctly, we'll be able to call somebody 19 and they can come and fix our computer at a reasonable rate. 20 Is that what I'm understanding? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, but I think it's 22 probably premature to change it. I think it's up to the 23 Judge. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: What would -- if it were 25 outsourced, it would be a Commissioners Court item, as I see 6-9-03 132 1 it now, for the entire county. 2 MS. PIEPER: Okay. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: So it really wouldn't reflect 4 a change in your budget. 5 MS. PIEPER: Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yet. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I hear that it 8 would if they are cutting for this service. Is this in 9 their budget now? It is in their budget? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. We don't 12 know -- 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We do not account for 14 this service in our budget. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Indirectly, you are. You 16 just told me you have a deputy that's doing it. You have 17 manhours going into this service. That means you have money 18 going into it. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What we don't know is 20 what outsources would cost for us as to what we're paying 21 and level of service you're going to get for those dollars. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's right. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: That's part of the reason for 24 the RFP. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We may get RFP's and 6-9-03 133 1 we'll say, "This is excessive; we can't do that." Or 2 hopefully we'll get one that we say, "Yeah, that's better 3 service, and the cost is okay." 4 JUDGE TINLEY: And, you know, if the cost -- 5 no, I'm not going there. 6 MR. UVALLE: Judge, Commissioners, I would 7 like to offer the services from TAC, the County Information 8 Resource Agency, and they do a lot of this stuff for 9 counties, and maybe they can get their -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: For -- 11 MR. UVALLE: Not the technical assistance 12 service, but to help maybe put the proposal together, and 13 also maybe some things they can fix, maybe on-site and fix 14 some at this -- at that point. But if it happens again, 15 they're not on-site, but they could come make a visit and 16 make some corrections, and then -- then go back. But that 17 is one of the services TAC does for the technology area. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: I am aware of that, the 19 information services, and it's -- I appreciate you bringing 20 that to the Court's attention, Victor. Any further 21 questions or discussion? All in favor of the motion, 22 signify by raising your right hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 6-9-03 134 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Next item 2 on the agenda -- somebody used the term "bad penny." 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It just came back. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Consider and discuss adoption 5 of the State Travel Allowance Guide as published by the 6 Comptroller for per diem allowances, reimbursement of 7 expenses for Kerr County elected officials and employees out 8 of county on official business. This was on the agenda 9 earlier this year. It was tabled, I think, primarily to let 10 the various elected officials or department heads give it 11 some thought, with the thought being that it would come back 12 prior to the budget process so that we'd know a little bit 13 -- have a better handle on it by then. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Comments? 15 MS. PIEPER: What are y'all planning on 16 proposing? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: The -- the entire proposal or 18 possibility of proposal out there would be to adopt the 19 entire state plan, which would be mileage as per 20 Comptroller-published rates, or -- at their rate and at 21 their designated miles, the per diem for meal expenses, the 22 limitations on lodging that are currently in effect. I 23 think those are the -- the primary ones. Some of the 24 discussion I heard earlier zeroed in pretty much on leaving 25 the -- the lodging rates alone. Whatever the actual cost 6-9-03 135 1 was, reimbursement for that; i.e., take that outside of the 2 State employee's method of operation, but utilize the -- the 3 Comptroller's guide for per diems for meals, for mileage 4 rates and distances, is basically what I heard. 5 MS. UECKER: We're already using the 6 distance. But, you know, the figure -- the mileage, I don't 7 think -- I think the mileage that we're -- that the Court 8 approved is somewhat less, like a half a cent or something 9 like that, than what the State is. Meals, what was your 10 proposal on that? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: I think current guidelines 12 are -- $30? 13 MS. UECKER: $25. Is it $30? 14 MS. SOVIL: $25. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: It's $30 a day now. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The cover sheet here 17 says $30, and in the back in your backup, it says $25. 18 MS. UECKER: But on the State, I'm 19 wondering -- State employees have that, because most State 20 employees -- well, they're not all in Austin, but most of 21 the stuff that they have to go to is in Austin already 22 anyway, so they're probably still getting -- and I think 23 that was mostly done for the legislative people that have to 24 come in. But just by coincidence, I was looking here at the 25 registration form for the proposed legislative seminar. 6-9-03 136 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How much? 2 MS. UECKER: Well, the registration has gone 3 way up. It's $225. But the hotel -- the Hyatt, of course, 4 is full, and it was $133. The second choice is the Embassy, 5 which is $169. And the third choice, which is the Radisson, 6 is $105. So -- and I don't think you're going to find a 7 whole lot -- yeah, you're going to find some that are less, 8 but when you consider the type -- you know, the amount of 9 rooms that they have, you're not going to find that much 10 that -- and, for instance, our -- our association next year 11 is -- we're going to Del Lago. The rooms are going to be -- 12 which I probably won't -- I may not attend for that reason, 13 but the rooms are going to be, like, $160-something a night. 14 There are no other hotels. So, you know, I would be in 15 agreement to the mileage and the meals. I've always said -- 16 I've told Commissioners Courts for years, and Commissioner 17 Baldwin can verify that, that I thought we should go to the 18 per diem on meals. But I think, at this point, I would 19 prefer to just leave the hotel alone, or raise it, 'cause 20 what I understand, we're even going to -- $80? Is that what 21 the State's is? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: The current state is $80, yes. 23 And the consensus I heard up to this point is that, because 24 of the concerns you mentioned, that maybe that's a little 25 too tight for us. Maybe we ought to just leave it actual 6-9-03 137 1 reimbursable upon presentation of the -- 2 MS. UECKER: Or I wouldn't be opposed to 3 raising to it $100, but I think the $80 comes from the -- 4 the legislative people, and those people that are in Austin 5 that don't really have to go that far. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I think state 7 employees get a different rate than the rest of us anyway, 8 don't they? 9 MS. PIEPER: They're also tax-exempt as well, 10 and we're not. But I would agree with Linda; I don't mind 11 the meals and the mileage, but leave the hotels alone. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Tommy, how would that affect 13 -- would that simplify things for you? Especially on the 14 meals? 15 MR. TOMLINSON: Sure. Yeah, that would help. 16 MS. PIEPER: We bring back the receipts, 17 anyway. And I never eat $30 worth of food a day. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: You wouldn't have to do that. 19 You just -- if you wanted to draw -- you could draw your per 20 diem in advance, and that wouldn't be a problem. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If you don't want to eat 22 out -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: That -- this is updated. It's 24 $30. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I want to point out 6-9-03 138 1 this sheet in the back, though, and ask you a question about 2 this. It's -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What page? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I don't know. 1 5 of 5. It's 3.03, overnight travel within Texas. Are you 6 there? The (A) is meal expenses. And then the second 7 paragraph, it gives an example there. Tell me what that 8 means. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: If they're reimbursable. May 10 not exceed $25 -- which is now $30 -- unless the exception 11 discussed in (C) applies. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, actually, my 13 point is -- I'm not into the number deal at this time, but 14 my point is, that's a little bit confusing. Are we adopting 15 this verbiage? And have we -- I have not read the whole 16 thing; I just kind of glanced over it. And I'm -- what are 17 we getting into? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just -- there 19 essentially is no carryover. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I like the idea of 21 going to these numbers of -- of the per diem and the meals, 22 and I agree with them on the hotel thing. You can't get a 23 hotel room for $80 anywhere. But the mileage and the meals, 24 I agree with. But I don't know if I want to agree with 25 adopting this stuff, you know, actually making this part of 6-9-03 139 1 the County policy. I just -- I just don't know for sure. 2 I'm not willing to do that today. I'm not sure if it's the 3 county government -- 4 MS. SOVIL: You might want to consider 5 adopting a Kerr County travel rule that is reliable -- 6 relying upon what the State does for meals and -- and so 7 that you don't have to come in and change it every time, 8 just what the State does for meals and mileage. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Buster's talking about 10 all the details. 11 MS. SOVIL: Well, you can do your own. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, that's what he's 13 saying. Do we do what we have, or do we adopt the State 14 rules? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I mean, this thing -- 16 if you adopt this document right here, it talks about hotel 17 taxes, if you're exempt or not. We're not. Texas -- or 18 State employees are. 19 MR. MOTLEY: It says somewhere in here that 20 they're not exempt and that the State will reimburse them 21 for certain taxes. In there, I thought it said that. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know what it 23 says, but what -- my point is, if we adopt this document, 24 then we're adopting those things that don't -- do not apply 25 to us. 6-9-03 140 1 MS. UECKER: It doesn't seem necessary, when 2 it could be much simpler. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, absolutely. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, does -- does -- 6 all right, I'm going to Austin. I'm going to the thing -- 7 and I'm not paying those kind of moneys you're talking 8 about, by the way. 9 MS. UECKER: You're not paying the 10 registration? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, I'm not. I'm 12 tired of paying it. 13 MS. UECKER: You know what? I don't think I 14 am either; I'm just going to walk in. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: How do you like the 16 Y.M.C.A.? 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: When they transfer you 18 back down here, we'll have a place for you, Buster. 19 MR. MOTLEY: I want to mention one other 20 thing. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait a minute, I 22 didn't get my question. 23 MR. MOTLEY: I'm sorry, go ahead. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Next thing I know, I'm 25 in jail. So, the County's going to give me $30 a day. I'm 6-9-03 141 1 going to be up there for two days, so, Tommy, you're going 2 to hand me 60 bucks to eat on while I'm up there, and I'm 3 not going to bring him any -- any kind of receipt back to -- 4 to prove that -- I mean, I'm going to go to H.E.B. when I'm 5 up there, get me some sardines and crackers, sit in my motel 6 room -- my free hotel room and eat my sardines and crackers 7 and pocket the money. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's what per 9 diem's all about. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand. 11 MS. UECKER: And most counties have adopted 12 that. And while we're on that subject, I don't know if -- 13 how many of you are aware that the legislative people, 14 Representatives and the Senators -- Buster might know -- you 15 know, they -- their salary is, like, nothing. It's, like, 16 $7,000 a year. But they get $110 a day, whether they stay 17 at home, whether they stay with a friend, whether they stay 18 in a $6 hotel or what, and they don't eat at all. That's 19 how they make their money. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's true. That's 21 true. 22 MS. UECKER: And that's what that -- that 23 scale was based on. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: And the lobbyist turns in the 25 expense account, right? 6-9-03 142 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: I see. 3 MR. MOTLEY: I just want to -- I don't know 4 if Buster is finished there, but I did a lot of traveling 5 under these rules back when I was in the Attorney General's 6 office, and I always had to leave Austin; I'd go to all 7 these district Highway Department offices. There was one in 8 Dallas; I went straight up 35 and went straight over to it, 9 and put my -- you know, I'd write my mileage down and it 10 would be 224 miles, and you look at the state mileage guide 11 when you get back, and it's 212 or 185. And I used to call 12 and say, "Well, what's the deal?" They said, "Well, our 13 mileage is figured on taking any road, Farm-to-Market, 14 whatever we can do. That computer figures the shortest 15 route." 16 MS. UECKER: It's by crow, as the crow flies. 17 MR. MOTLEY: It is. And I'm just going to 18 tell you, it's not exactly what a person would drive. It 19 will give you some idea of about how far it is, but they're 20 usually about 90 percent, or about 10 percent shy on those. 21 That was just my experience on it. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I had the same 23 experience when I went to Forth Worth to our meeting. I 24 punched the odometer when I left home and checked it when I 25 got home and turned it in to Thea, and they cut me back 6-9-03 143 1 about 50 miles. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But I think that's fair. 3 Otherwise, you'll have employees take the long way around 4 and try and -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They'll use extra per 6 diem money for that. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah, I'm okay with 8 it. 9 MS. UECKER: Every time I go to the capitol 10 and come back, it's about -- I think it's, like, 26 miles 11 shy of what the -- and that's going straight from here to 12 the capitol. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm okay with 14 approving the per diem for meals and using the state 15 mileage, but is there -- do we need to study the rules more 16 before we finally act on it? Is that what I'm hearing? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Too many exceptions 19 and variables in these rules. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: You can just adopt your own, 21 as I see it, of the -- of the amount of the per diem, and 22 adopt the state mileage and the state rates on both of them. 23 But -- but not adopt any of the rules. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I make a motion that we 25 adopt the $30 per diem for meals, the state -- the state 6-9-03 144 1 mileage rate or state mileage guide. 2 MS. UECKER: And distance? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And distance guide. And 4 lodging will be done on a -- 5 MS. SOVIL: Actual. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- actual basis. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I second. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And those will be 9 adjusted as the State adjusts them on a biannual basis, I 10 believe. 11 MS. SOVIL: Effective October 1? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tied to the state rates. 13 And we are not changing travel policy in our -- 14 MS. SOVIL: Effective October 1? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, effective October 16 1. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion's been made and 18 seconded. Any further discussion or questions? All in 19 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. The next 24 item -- 25 MS. UECKER: What's the effective date on it? 6-9-03 145 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: October 1. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: October 1. 3 MS. SOVIL: Are they going to -- is everybody 4 going to use the form to turn in to the Auditor's office? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There was a pretty 6 good-looking form -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If Tommy's got a form he 8 wants us to use. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I imagine it's somebody else's 10 form. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did you hear what I 12 said? I think Tommy should create a form, or it can be the 13 state form, whatever he wants to use. He has to deal with 14 it. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Next item, consider and 16 discuss approval to apply for Kerr County's portion of 17 unclaimed money received from electric co-ops. That came in 18 last week, belatedly. The only requirement, as you can see, 19 is that we must apply for it in June or July, and we must 20 certify that the purpose of the funds would be in compliance 21 with provisions of Section 381.004 of the Local Government 22 Code. It's economic development money. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move we authorize 24 the County Judge to apply. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. My question 6-9-03 146 1 is, are we sure we're on the list? Are we just trying a 2 shot in here? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, if we don't apply, we 4 won't get on that list. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I understand. 6 Is some money owed us? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Don't know. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what we don't 9 know? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Don't know. Presumably, it's 11 out of the -- the capital credits fund from the elected 12 co-ops that accumulate, you know -- does anybody on the 13 Court belong to a co-op? Phone or whatever? You accumulate 14 capital credits. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: And those sometimes go 17 unclaimed, and they accede to the State. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we did this 19 several years ago. We got a little bit. 20 MS. SOVIL: $35, I think. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That will buy Rusty a 22 new car. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Not near as good as 24 that rare book that we've got. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the best deal 6-9-03 147 1 yet. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You checked it back 3 in yet? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further discussion? All 5 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Let's move 10 on down. Let's talk about the bills. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move we pay the 12 bills, Judge. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that 15 we pay the bills as presented. Any discussion? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir, I've got a 17 question. I thought I had two -- I do have two. On Page 3, 18 under the County Attorney -- without me looking up, is 19 Motley still in the room? 20 MS. PIEPER: Yes. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what I was 22 afraid of. 23 MS. UECKER: Thanks to his cigarette that he 24 left. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The next to the last 6-9-03 148 1 one, it's paid to Kerr County Collections for reimbursement 2 for conferences. Well, why is everybody looking at me like 3 I'm an idiot? Is this something normal? No. 4 MR. TOMLINSON: He paid for it out of his 5 collection money, and we're reimbursing that. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't get it. 7 MR. TOMLINSON: It was budgeted for -- to 8 come out of county funds. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He -- 10 MR. TOMLINSON: And he paid for it out of -- 11 out of his collection account. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He is paying our 13 Collections Department for -- 14 MR. TOMLINSON: No, no, no, no, no. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What does that say? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: He has a collection account 17 for hot checks collection. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is a different -- 19 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Different deal. Thank 21 you so much. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything further? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, absolutely. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Page 6, cell phone for 6-9-03 149 1 Travis Hall. Just $128 reimbursement for cell phone. Is 2 that -- is that on our list that we purchase for that 3 department? 4 MR. TOMLINSON: We -- it's -- we budgeted 5 for -- for telephone for that -- yeah, for that department. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So if we -- if we 7 budget for a telephone of a department, they use it wherever 8 they want? I want to look at the D.P.S. stuff this year. I 9 personally don't think that we need to -- the County should 10 be buying a cell phone, or bullets or guns or vests for a 11 State employee. And if we're going to do these things, I 12 think we're going to have to get real specific in what we 13 pay for and what we don't pay for. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's not a bad idea. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That was all. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I've got one 17 question, Tommy. On Page 8, reimbursing Turtle Creek 18 Volunteer Fire Department, Comfort Volunteer Fire 19 Department. Is it true that Comfort saved up all their 20 receipts for their costs and brought them in, and you paid 21 them their full $11,000, and then Turtle Creek came in with 22 $5,622 and you reimbursed them for that amount? 23 MR. TOMLINSON: Right, that's correct. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And then my question 25 is -- follow-on is, in your experience with Turtle Creek, 6-9-03 150 1 will they incur the full $11,000? 2 MR. TOMLINSON: Oh, yes. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, nobody comes in 4 short on that? 5 MR. TOMLINSON: No, they get their money. 6 You can count on that. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's it. That's 8 my question, thank you. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Back on -- just below the 10 D.P.S. cell phone, we've got an entry of over $10,000, 11 Airport Contract Expense. Tell me what that's in connection 12 with. 13 MR. TOMLINSON: I'm not sure what -- I'd have 14 to look that one up. But we -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Maybe we need to. 16 MR. TOMLINSON: They say it's a budget item. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a different 18 number than what we dealt with this morning, I can tell you. 19 I looked -- I did compare the numbers. 20 MR. TOMLINSON: We have a contract with the 21 City for -- to pay them a certain amount, but I don't 22 remember the amount. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the only thing, as I 24 recall, in the current budget has to do with -- with some 25 grant match moneys. 6-9-03 151 1 MR. TOMLINSON: We're paying them, let's see, 2 $123,500 for this year. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: As our piece of the 4 airport? 5 MR. TOMLINSON: And it's $10,291.67 per 6 month. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: What's the 123,000? Was 8 that -- was that our portion of -- of grant matching funds? 9 MR. TOMLINSON: That's what I'm remembering. 10 I'm not positive about that, but I -- I remember that that 11 was on the -- that was on the budget that we got from the 12 City. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: That's on that grant, our 14 portion of it; it's fifty-fifty. They get half, we get 15 half, okay. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll third the motion. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Any further 18 discussion or questions? All in favor of the motion, 19 signify by raising your right hand. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. We now have 24 budget amendments. Budget Amendment Number 1. 25 MR. TOMLINSON: This is for Courthouse 6-9-03 152 1 Maintenance. We have a bill for $800 to Southern Steel 2 Company. Our request is for an amendment of $50 to be 3 transferred from Miscellaneous to Conferences, Dues, and 4 Subscriptions. And we have -- I have a -- I need a hand 5 check for $800 to Southern Steel, and it's for a conference 6 for -- for Maintenance. It's a five-day seminar for -- I 7 think it's Harold Evans is the one that's going. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If I may explain, 9 probably what that is, Glenn normally sends somebody through 10 that Southern Steel lock school and that, where some of his 11 maintenance people are able to repair some of the locks out 12 at the jail. That may be what that is. But that's -- all 13 the locks are Southern Steel. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mississippi locks? 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't know. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move we approve. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that 19 Budget Amendment Request Number 1 be approved and a hand 20 check be authorized in the sum of $800 to Southern Steel. 21 Any further discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify 22 by raising your right hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 6-9-03 153 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, do you remember 3 that about the Southern locks? You remember what we went 4 through, the -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Budget Amendment Request 7 Number 2. 8 MR. TOMLINSON: This is for County Court. 9 It's a request to transfer $371.50 from Court-Appointed 10 Attorney line item to Statement of Facts. And I also have a 11 -- a late bill I need a hand check for to Kathy Banik. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to 15 approve Budget Amendment Request Number 2 and authorize hand 16 check to Kathy Banik for 37 -- or, excuse me, 471.50. Any 17 further discussion? All in favor, signify by raising your 18 right hand. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Budget 23 Amendment Request 3. 24 MR. TOMLINSON: This request is for the 198th 25 and 216th Courts, to transfer $1,078.58 from Court-Appointed 6-9-03 154 1 Attorney line item in 198th Court, $30 from Court-Appointed 2 Attorneys in the -- line item in the 216th Court, $692.50 3 was in transcripts for the 198th, $356.08 goes to 4 Court-Appointed Services for the 198th Court, $30 in Books, 5 Publications, and Dues for the 198th Court, and $30 for 6 Books, Publications, and Dues for the 216th Court. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second -- or first. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 9 MR. TOMLINSON: I do need a -- a hand check 10 for the $692.50 to Linton Tomlin for the transcript. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded, 12 Budget Amendment Request Number 3 be approved and hand check 13 authorized to Linton Tomlin for $692.50. Any further 14 discussion? All in favor, signify by raising your right 15 hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Budget 20 Amendment Request Number 4. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: This request is from the 22 County Clerk to transfer $11.91 from Deputy Salaries to 23 Overtime. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So moved. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 6-9-03 155 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that 2 Budget Amendment Request 4 be approved. Any further 3 discussion? All in favor, signify by raising your right 4 hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Budget 9 Amendment Request Number 5. 10 MR. TOMLINSON: This is for the County 11 Attorney to transfer $323.86 from Postage to Books, 12 Publications, and Dues. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that 16 Budget Amendment Request Number 5 be approved. Any further 17 discussion? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My question would be, 19 are they books or are they publications or are they dues? 20 MR. MOTLEY: They're both. They're books and 21 -- I think Westlaw, if I'm not mistaken, that ended up -- 22 that cleared that account out. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: It's Texas Criminal Practices 24 Guide. 25 MR. MOTLEY: So, Westlaw subscription. 6-9-03 156 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further discussion? All 2 in favor, signify by raising your right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Budget 7 Amendment Request Number 6. 8 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. This is for the 9 Sheriff's Office and the Jail. It's a transfer of $563 from 10 Deputies Salaries to Investigation Expenses for the 11 Sheriff's Office, and transferring $1,407.33 from Operating 12 Supplies to Capital Outlay for a camera in the jail. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Replacement camera? 14 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Our booking camera went 16 out. Mug shot camera. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that 20 Budget Amendment Request Number 6 be approved. Any further 21 discussion? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If I were going to ask 23 a question, which I'm not -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: I see. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But if I were going 6-9-03 157 1 to, I would say, Rusty, how do you -- how do you have so 2 much salary money there when we don't have enough people as 3 it is? But, thank God, I don't have to ask those kind of 4 questions, huh? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Appreciate you not 6 asking. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're welcome, Jon. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further discussion? 9 Thoughts of questions? All in favor -- 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Harder and harder to get 11 people to work for Kerr County, Buster. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All in favor of the motion, 13 signify by raising your right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Budget 18 amendment Request Number 7. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: We -- we've received a 20 quarterly payment for Senate Bill 7, indigent health -- I 21 mean indigent defense reimbursement, $6,354. This amendment 22 is to increase the revenue budget for -- for those funds for 23 other revenues for Senate Bill 7, and to correspondingly 24 increase the -- the Court-Appointed Attorney line item for 25 the County Court at Law. 6-9-03 158 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that 4 Budget Amendment Request Number 7 be approved. Any further 5 discussion? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got a question. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What -- why County 9 Court at Law? Is that the only -- is that specifically for 10 that? 11 MR. TOMLINSON: No, it's for any court, but 12 they're out of money. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a good reason. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Cavalry to the rescue. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just wondered if it 16 was designated for some type of court. 17 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or 20 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 21 your right hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Budget 6-9-03 159 1 Amendment Request Number 8. 2 MR. TOMLINSON: This is a request from the 3 District Clerk to transfer $619 from Office Supplies to 4 Maintenance Contracts. It's for a Pitney Bowes postage 5 machine. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So moved. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion's been made and 9 seconded. Any further questions or discussion? I'm sure 10 that Buster doesn't have a question, 'cause he doesn't ask 11 those questions. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, I don't. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: About why was $5,100 left in 14 the Office Supplies. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I would never ask that 16 with the District Clerk sitting in the room. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: I see. Okay. Any further 18 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 19 your right hand. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Do we have 24 any late bills? All right. I have before me a transcript 25 of the minutes of the regular Commissioners Court agenda on 6-9-03 160 1 Monday, May the 12th; of the special emergency Commissioners 2 Court agenda meeting Friday, May the 16th; the Commissioners 3 Court workshop of Monday, May the 19th; and the special 4 Commissioners Court meeting of Tuesday, May 27th. Do I hear 5 a motion that these be approved as presented? 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So moved. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that 9 the stated transcripts be approved as presented. Any 10 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 11 your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. I also 16 have before me monthly reports from the County Clerk, 17 Sheriff, J.P. 1, and J.P. 4. Do I hear a motion that these 18 reports be approved as presented? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that 22 the monthly reports of the County Clerk, Sheriff, J.P. 1, 23 and J.P. 4 be approved as presented. Any further questions 24 or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 25 raising your right hand. 6-9-03 161 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Okay. We're 5 now down to the information agenda. Reports from 6 Commissioners. Do you have any reports for us today? 7 Commissioner Baldwin? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. We are -- you 9 know, the 911 issue of mailing out the mass letters in 10 September is -- we're getting close to having -- finalizing 11 everything, getting everything in order and in line to do 12 that. Commissioner Letz and I have a meeting either -- he 13 didn't know about it -- have a meeting with them next week 14 sometime to, I think, fill in the last pothole or get over 15 the last hurdle or whatever -- however you want to say it, 16 to get that thing done. But that's -- that's about it. 17 That's about it. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Two items, Judge. 19 This afternoon, Dave Tucker of Grantworks and I will join a 20 representative of O.R.C.A., I believe -- of the State to 21 walk over the project and see the progress and so forth so 22 she can file a report back as to what's taking place. 23 Secondly, I think we talked about -- Sunday or Monday in the 24 board meeting? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I only do my burn ban 6-9-03 162 1 until Sunday at 7 p.m. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm going to take my 3 burn ban off, Judge, until Sunday at 7 p.m. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I will also. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you have anything further? 6 (Commissioner Williams shook his head.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Letz? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, one, burn ban is 9 off for Precinct 3 until Sunday, 7 p.m. And, second, this 10 is -- I haven't talked to Dave this morning, but if the 11 Court is agreeable, I'll probably call a workshop for next 12 Monday, either 9:00 or 10:00, makes no difference to me, to 13 give an update on where we are on O.S.S.F. This is a result 14 of the committee meetings that Dave and I have been having 15 with members of U.G.R.A. Board. And we don't have a final 16 product, but we're just at a point that I think we'd like to 17 probably hear from Commissioner Williams what he's found out 18 from the financial side of it, and also kind of make sure 19 that Precinct 3 and 4 are not way off base in what the 20 Court -- direction the Court wants to take on O.S.S.F. So, 21 kind of give us an update on that. Nothing final, it will 22 be just be more of a discussion as to where we are and 23 progress report. And, if possible, I think we'll also put 24 in that workshop an update of where we are on Subdivision 25 Rules update. Only reason I say that's a possible on that 6-9-03 163 1 one is because I'll be out of town Thursday and Friday. 2 Depends if we can get enough of that done. Certainly, we 3 can have a walk-through on Subdivision Rules. There aren't 4 any real substantive changes, but there are quite a few 5 changes. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, appreciate that. 7 Commissioner Nicholson? 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No, I don't have 9 anything else. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Burn ban? 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Off until 7 p.m. 12 Sunday. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Do you have 14 anything on your burn ban? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm following the 16 leader. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. You're off -- Precinct 18 1 is off until 7 p.m. this coming Sunday? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir, that is 20 correct. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. All right. Do we have 22 any elected officials or department heads out there that 23 want to share anything with us? Any boards, commissions, or 24 committee reports? I don't even see Road and Bridge still 25 here. Don't see Maintenance here. 6-9-03 164 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Lunch is right around the 2 corner. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, it appears that lunch is 4 right around the corner. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I'd like to 6 comment. I think Rusty needs to issue sun shades to all of 7 us when these employees come in here, and that glare -- look 8 at that glare off of his -- hi, Brown. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Being nothing else to come 10 before us, I'll declare the meeting adjourned. 11 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 12:40 p.m.) 12 - - - - - - - - - - 13 14 STATE OF TEXAS | 15 COUNTY OF KERR | 16 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 17 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 18 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 19 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 20 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 16th day of June, 2003. 21 22 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 23 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 24 Certified Shorthand Reporter 25 6-9-03