1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Budget Workshop 10 Tuesday, August 19, 2003 11 10:30 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 DAVE NICHOLSON, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X August 19, 2003 2 PAGE Budget Workshops: 3 County Clerk 3 4 Tax Assessor/Collector 21 5 District Clerk 30 6 Treasurer 58 7 Constable 1 82 8 Constable 2 112 Constable 3 117 9 Constable 4 123 10 J.P. 4 130 J.P. 3 140 11 J.P. 2 143 J.P. 1 147 12 DPS/DPS Weights 163 13 District Courts 166 14 Library 180 15 Information Technology 188 16 17 Adjourned 200 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 On Tuesday, August 19, 2003, at 10:30 a.m., a budget 2 workshop meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was 3 held in the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's call to order the 8 budget workshop scheduled for today, Tuesday, August 19th, 9 at 10:30 a.m. It's a couple of minutes after that hour now. 10 The next item up for consideration is the budget of the 11 County Clerk, and I find that on -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Page 5. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Page 5, correct. Ms. Pieper, 14 good morning. 15 MS. PIEPER: Good morning. I have made some 16 cuts in this, and then the Judge made some cuts in it, and I 17 will try to work within those cuts. Can you not hear me? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If you pull it a 19 little closer, I can. 20 MS. PIEPER: Okay. Do you -- is there any 21 particular line item that you have questions on, or do we 22 want to go down the list, or how do you want to work it? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably down the list. 24 MS. PIEPER: Okay. Of course, the -- all the 25 salaries, on the deputy's salary, I have one employee that 8-19-03 wk 4 1 had resigned, and trying to work within the budget, knowing 2 the County's budget, I am not replacing that deputy. And 3 it's going to put more work on other deputies, so -- but 4 within the last couple of weeks, it's working out okay. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that recommended for 6 next year as well? Or just through this -- 7 MS. PIEPER: No, for next year. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me interject, if I might, 10 and -- and, as Ms. Pieper indicated, that there's going to 11 be a change in her position schedule for this coming year in 12 connection with her budget, and I suspect there may be some 13 other officials that have modifications or changes in their 14 position schedules because of -- of action that they take in 15 connection with their office. And each of these officials, 16 when their budget is -- is considered and -- and if there's 17 a different position schedule that's going to be utilized, 18 it needs to be furnished to the County Treasurer. Probably 19 the best thing to do would be for each elected official or 20 department head to present their position schedule for the 21 coming year to the County Treasurer so that we'll have that 22 complete when we adopt the entire budget, because that's the 23 Court's -- 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let me see if I 25 understand, Ms. Pieper. The current budget was for 246,000. 8-19-03 wk 5 1 You requested 258, and the 258 includes one less position? 2 MS. PIEPER: No, sir, that was prior to -- to 3 her -- 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 5 MS. PIEPER: -- resigning. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I applaud your 7 efforts to -- to improve productivity. Thank you. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, that would mean 9 the recommended 236,620 is -- 10 MS. PIEPER: Is accurate, yes. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- I guess I want to 12 follow up a little bit on Dave's comment. Is there -- you 13 know, because of this change, you're increasing the 14 responsibility, and hence the position of, you know, a 15 number of your people? 16 MS. PIEPER: Yes. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Dividing up the workload, 18 and then basically -- 19 MS. PIEPER: And then I'm taking some of the 20 workload as well. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How many deputies did you 22 have? 23 MS. PIEPER: 13. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 13. And you're going to 25 12? 8-19-03 wk 6 1 MS. PIEPER: Mm-hmm, with one part-time. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm down to Notices, 3 if anybody's ready to go there. I got a quick question. It 4 appears that you have doubled the amount for notices, and 5 I'm assuming that's for the platting procedures and replats 6 and -- and what else? 7 MS. PIEPER: That's it. Just for the 8 subdivisions. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 10 MS. PIEPER: Revisions on them that we have 11 to send out certified letters and notices to the newspaper. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. And I think -- 13 that's my comment; I think that's very wise, what you've 14 done. Because even though we talk about building slowing 15 down in Kerr County, I don't see it anywhere. That there 16 just continues to -- wherever I look, there's something 17 going on, so I think it's wise that we gear up for it. 18 Otherwise, again, I applaud -- this is a good-looking -- 19 good-looking budget. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I was very pleased with the 22 cooperation that Ms. Pieper gave me in working with me on 23 the preparation of the recommendations that we jointly came 24 up with. We -- there was considerable discussion, and this 25 was, likewise, done with a number of the other elected 8-19-03 wk 7 1 officials and department heads, and I'm really, really 2 pleased with the cooperation and the assistance that I got, 3 especially in view of the fact that this was my first rodeo, 4 as it were, and I found it a much easier and pleasant 5 process, and I thank her and applaud her for it. 6 MS. PIEPER: You're welcome. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just a quick question 8 on Software Maintenance, Jannett. You've reduced it 9 significantly, and I guess that's because you anticipate 10 fewer problems? Or you've got new software and -- or 11 whatever? 12 MS. PIEPER: That is for the -- The Software 13 Group out of Plano. And, by going on their figures that 14 they provided me that they were going to charge me, and the 15 way their -- they have refigured -- they used to charge me 16 per image station, and now they just charge us a flat fee, 17 and it doesn't matter how many. Therefore, the rates 18 actually went down. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good. Thank you. 20 Looks good. 21 MS. PIEPER: And have I no wish list on this 22 particular budget. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, we going to do the 24 -- the elections budget also? 25 MS. PIEPER: Excuse me? 8-19-03 wk 8 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The elections budget. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, that's her budget also. 3 If we're ready to move on to that. 4 MS. PIEPER: The only question I have is on 5 my Books, Publications, and Dues. It was decreased from 6 $600 to $450, but it's my understanding that we will be 7 taking some of our new books, after the laws change and they 8 get rewritten, out of the Law Library? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I think we always -- when we 10 have the session laws and the new pocket parts, of course, 11 those are taken out of the Law Library. 12 MS. PIEPER: Okay. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: At least one set. Now, I 14 don't know -- there are certain -- probably some specialized 15 volumes that you try and maintain in your office, for 16 obvious reasons, and certainly you need to be able to 17 acquire those. And if -- if your knowledge of what those 18 are -- if the amount allocated there is not going to be 19 enough to acquire those, why, we probably need to -- it 20 would be helpful if we knew about that. 21 MS. PIEPER: I'm not real sure the price of 22 them. A lot of my publications and books and stuff I've 23 been getting off-line, and searching online, so there's not 24 going to be a whole lot of books I need, so I think this may 25 cover it, but I'm not for sure. 8-19-03 wk 9 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Well, we'll do the best 2 we can. If there's something that you need in order to 3 discharge the duties of your office that's not covered here, 4 why, we'll work and try to find out a way to get it. 5 MS. PIEPER: Okay. Do we want to go to the 6 Election budget? Which is on Page 4, I believe. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Jannett, how long have 8 you had the machines that we're using right now? 9 MS. PIEPER: About seven years. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And they're -- I mean, 11 they're still in good shape? 12 MS. PIEPER: Well, we're still using them. 13 I'll use them until we can no longer use them. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm just trying to -- 15 from a long-term standpoint, are we looking at a couple more 16 years of life? 17 MS. PIEPER: Yes. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Five or more years, maybe 19 a couple more years, so we can probably get through, 20 obviously, the primary and the next general election? 21 MS. PIEPER: Yes. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And then -- 23 MS. PIEPER: I get them maintained once a 24 year, and then they -- if there's a problem, you know, 25 something broke, needs to be fixed, then they will note it 8-19-03 wk 10 1 at this point and fix them. But I get them serviced before 2 each big election. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 4 MS. PIEPER: But a lot of it depends on the 5 humidity and -- and all that as to how the machines are 6 going to run, and only God can control that. So -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Have you started looking 8 at where you may want to go in the future? 9 MS. PIEPER: I know by 2006, I have to have 10 D.R.E. machines, and one in each polling location. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: By what year? 12 MS. PIEPER: 2006. So, I'm working on that. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What type of machines? 14 MS. PIEPER: There called D.R.E. It's just a 15 machine that's A.D.A.-compliant, that a blind person or 16 handicapped person or whatever can use. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just something that we 18 just need to -- it's going to be a pretty big-ticket item, I 19 suspect. 20 MS. PIEPER: It will be, but Kerr County can 21 apply for a $52,000 grant that would help us. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mm-hmm. 23 MS. PIEPER: And that may get 12 or 13 24 machines. Of course, we have 21 precincts, so -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just something to be 8-19-03 wk 11 1 thinking of during this year when we start doing 2 long-range -- some long-range planning on that. 3 MS. PIEPER: I think the only line item here 4 that has increased is my 457, on my signs, because I need to 5 buy some new "vote here" signs. That is a requirement by 6 law that we have them. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is the ballot expense -- 8 I mean, I see it as basically the same as last year. 9 MS. PIEPER: Yes. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that enough, with the 11 primary and general election? 12 MS. PIEPER: I believe it will be, but we've 13 always got our Election Expense that we can pull from if we 14 need to. And that will also -- before March, I have to get 15 42 new ballot boxes. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 17 MS. PIEPER: And then that is also going to 18 be included for the emergency service districts, should we 19 have an election on that. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. And this is an 21 area that I feel pretty strongly, we need to make sure we 22 adequately fund this, 'cause this is the basic -- that's why 23 we're all here. Looks good. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Anybody else have any 25 questions about the Elections budget? Let's go to Records 8-19-03 wk 12 1 Management, which is on Page 7, I believe. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Looks good. 3 MS. PIEPER: On this one, the changes would 4 be the office supplies, which it was decreased to $1,200 5 from $1,500, and Machine Repair; that was decreased from 6 $500 to $300. That's the only changes on that budget. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Anybody got any questions on 8 the Records Management? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Looks good. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No. 12 MS. PIEPER: Okay. On my Records Management 13 that we only use that fee for records management -- 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. 15 MS. PIEPER: On that one, I have requested 16 one file cabinet with a lock for my juvenile cases, and it's 17 by law, we have to have the locks on them, and they have to 18 stay locked when we're not using them. And then two 19 computers, one for my birth terminal and one for my Records 20 Department. And then I need to get some -- replace some 21 plat envelopes. Some of them are just so old and distorted 22 that our plats are falling out of them. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Were those the items that we 24 discussed, Ms. Pieper, that aggregate approximately $4,560? 25 MS. PIEPER: Yes. 8-19-03 wk 13 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. If the Commissioners 2 will turn to Page 94, that's the separate Records Management 3 account that Ms. Pieper referred to. As she indicated, that 4 particular account is only -- can only be utilized for given 5 purposes, and I believe the items which she mentioned fall 6 under that, do they not, Ms. Pieper? 7 MS. PIEPER: Yes, this does. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which -- what is 9 that, Judge? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: That's -- look on Page 94. 11 It's 28-635. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, looking on here, 13 I don't see what she's talking about here, either. Where -- 14 where are these? 15 MS. PIEPER: For every document that is 16 filed, there's a $5 charge on it. That money is put into a 17 separate line item and can only be used for records 18 management. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right, mm-hmm. 20 MS. PIEPER: And that's what I would like to 21 take. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It comes out of here 23 into here? 24 MS. PIEPER: Right. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. What's the 8-19-03 wk 14 1 problem? Have you ever -- have we thought any more about 2 indexing? 3 MS. PIEPER: Indexing? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 5 MS. PIEPER: I'm indexing everything. I 6 don't understand your question. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Cross-referencing? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. We have an 9 indexing problem. If -- if you go into your computers and 10 start looking for a particular issue, many times you find 11 it, many times you don't, because it's indexed, in my 12 opinion, in a funny way. 13 MS. PIEPER: Depends on -- a lot on who's 14 indexing it and their way of thinking also. We try to index 15 multiple different ways. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand that. 17 And I -- I guess that's good, but isn't there -- surely 18 there's got to be a program out there that has strict 19 guidelines of a way that you would index a -- that you could 20 get specific. 21 MS. PIEPER: No. We have 254 counties, and I 22 guarantee you, there's 254 ways that they're done. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, we have almost 24 that many down at your class, but it's incredible. Okay, 25 just wondering. I know we had that conversation before. 8-19-03 wk 15 1 MS. PIEPER: We do have a two-page sheet of 2 what we call "codes," and if -- we try to fit them in one of 3 those without trying to make the index too long. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Well, I've been 5 fairly successful, but at times it -- you really get bogged 6 down trying to find a simple piece of information. It's 7 just difficult sometimes. Anyway, okay. Whatever. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Jannett, I missed the 9 first part of the discussion. What was the reason for not 10 expending any more than you did out of current budget of 11 $44,000, of the Records Management? If I'm looking at that 12 correctly. 13 MS. PIEPER: What do you mean, for not 14 expending more? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, there's $44,800 16 budgeted, and you've reduced that down to $4,500 for next 17 year. 18 MS. PIEPER: What page are you on? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm on Page 94. 20 MS. PIEPER: That is a fund that's just 21 sitting there. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 23 MS. PIEPER: So we don't -- we -- whenever I 24 need something for records management, we pull from that. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 8-19-03 wk 16 1 MS. PIEPER: And so that sits there. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That takes care of 3 it, thank you. 4 MS. PIEPER: I'd like to bring up another 5 proposed fee that we can do to utilize more money. There's 6 new legislation that's designed to preserve archival 7 records, and which, of course, I have tons of them. And by 8 doing this, it would have an additional $5 charge on the 9 documents filed, and this would only be for an eight-year 10 period. But I would like to utilize that as well, to start 11 doing that, but in order to do that, we'll have to have 12 Commissioners Court approval, do a public hearing, and then 13 I have to post the -- the fees in the office. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: How much additional 15 revenue do you think would it bring you? 16 MS. PIEPER: Just a very quick -- rough 17 figures, it can be -- this fee can be set up to $5, so if we 18 do the whole $5, based on some of last year's figures, it 19 would be $62,780. But I have old records from the 1800's 20 and early 1900's that I cannot scan, I cannot film; I have 21 to literally keep the paper. And some of the books are so 22 old and have turned so brown, and if you touch the pages, 23 they will crumble, and I need to send those off and get 24 those deacidified and preserved, and that's what this money 25 would go for. 8-19-03 wk 17 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, you're going to 2 ask the Court at a future date to approve that? 3 MS. PIEPER: It has to be approved in this 4 budget, and then I would start collecting that fee as of 5 September 1. And then, once that kind of generates a little 6 bit, then we can start using it for that. And then, once I 7 get all the records done, this fee would be deleted by law 8 as of 2008, I believe is the -- yes, September 1, 2008, it 9 will expire. But then, because of my other records 10 management, then I can maintain my records with that fund. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Jannett, where is it 12 generated from? Filing a paper? Explain that a little bit. 13 MS. PIEPER: Filing documents, deeds, 14 mortgages. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Filing documents. And 16 how much -- if I go in and file a deed today, how much do 17 you charge me? 18 MS. PIEPER: Right now, it's $9 for the first 19 page, $2 for each additional page. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And -- and then 21 there'd be a flat $5 on top of that $9? 22 MS. PIEPER: Yes. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or whatever the total 24 might be? 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's a pure user 8-19-03 wk 18 1 fee. 2 MS. PIEPER: Yes. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I like that. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I like user fees too, 5 but I am a little bit hesitant -- you know, I'm not sure if 6 that's too much or not, but it just seems like that -- 7 that's a pretty good hit on a small item like that. 8 MS. PIEPER: If we don't utilize this, then 9 it will take much longer to get the records preserved. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, I understand. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, it is important 12 that you preserve those old records. 13 MS. PIEPER: Yes. I have some books now that 14 they're extremely bad, and we have them put back, and 15 hopefully the general public doesn't see them. We're 16 literally, basically, hiding the books so that they can't 17 open a page, because they will fall apart. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, how do we do that? 19 How do we -- it wouldn't be a separate agenda item. It 20 just -- we nod our heads today and build that $5 fee into 21 the budget, and then when we approve the budget, we approve 22 that $5 fee? Or -- 23 MS. PIEPER: We have to have a public hearing 24 first. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, there's a public 8-19-03 wk 19 1 hearing? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: I would think that, probably, 3 the -- the more complete way to approach it would be to have 4 it as a separate agenda item and post it right along with 5 the public hearing on the budget as a separate item. Just 6 run them in tandem, as it were, so that we clearly are 7 identifying this as being a fee that's being considered in 8 connection with the coming year's budget. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with you 100 10 percent. And you could -- you could do the -- the public 11 hearing right along with the budget public hearing as well. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I think you'd have to do a 13 separate public hearing, but -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. I mean 15 side-by-side. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: -- you'd clearly be disclosing 17 that it's to be utilized in connection with this coming 18 year's budget, and as a part of it. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, is it a 20 possibility that there might be other fee adjustments and -- 21 not necessarily Jannett's, but perhaps for the District 22 Clerk or -- or other places where we would have to do the 23 same thing? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: There is an additional -- one 25 you were speaking of was an archival fee. There's another 8-19-03 wk 20 1 records management or records preservation fee that -- that 2 would allow the District Clerk to obtain a $5 fee for 3 herself on cases filed, an additional $5 fee to preserve for 4 her own benefit in her records management. 5 MS. PIEPER: That could be. This -- this 6 Senate Bill 1731, it doesn't state District Clerks, so I'm 7 not for sure if that -- you know, if she's got a different 8 one. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, there's another bill, 10 and I brought it to the attention of the District Clerk 11 yesterday, I believe it was, for consideration. Whether or 12 not that one requires a public hearing or not, I don't 13 recall, but I brought that to her attention yesterday, and I 14 suspect we may hear about that when we talk to her later on 15 today, I guess. I believe -- is she on the agenda for later 16 on? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: She is. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: I suspect that we'll talk to 20 her about that then. 21 MS. PIEPER: Is there any more questions? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: The Auditor has a question. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: Not a question, but just a 24 comment, that the -- the records management fee that you all 25 just discussed actually is available to any -- any office in 8-19-03 wk 21 1 the county. That's -- that fee is a -- is a county records 2 management fee, and so any office in the county that has -- 3 has a need for records management can use that fund. 4 MS. PIEPER: That's good, because everybody 5 will need to maintain their records. 6 MR. TOMLINSON: And there is -- there is 7 surplus in that -- in that fund. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm just amazed that 9 the State doesn't get a little cut out of the deal. They 10 missed that one. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Ms. Pieper. 12 MS. PIEPER: You're welcome. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: The next item that we have is 14 the Tax Assessor/Collector. And I believe we're on Page 38, 15 if I'm not mistaken. Good morning. 16 MS. RECTOR: Good morning. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: How are you, Ms. Rector? 18 MS. RECTOR: I'm good. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Are there any particular 20 things about your proposed budget that you've got any strong 21 feelings about one way or the other? 22 MS. RECTOR: I think just in those areas that 23 I saw some slight cuts, those I can live with. I tried to 24 be as exact as I could, and I know some of the line items 25 kind of stand out at everybody this year because of the mass 8-19-03 wk 22 1 mailout of the voter cards and because of the 9-1-1 2 situation that I'm going to have to do some double mailing 3 on, but I have no choice on those. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I appreciate Ms. Rector. When 5 we went over her budget, she was very careful to point out 6 these extraordinary items and to justify where she was 7 asking for those increases, and she had her math done and 8 she had it done very meticulously, and as fast as I work my 9 pencil, I couldn't keep up with her. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: She is a Tivy 11 graduate. 12 MS. RECTOR: That's right. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: But I appreciate her 14 cooperation, and -- 15 MS. RECTOR: Thank you. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: -- and giving me the benefit 17 of the knowledge and information that I needed in order to 18 try and make what I thought were appropriate recommendations 19 in her particular case. Anybody got any questions of 20 Ms. Rector? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I do have a question. 22 And, really, I don't know -- I forgot to ask Jannett the 23 same thing as to Conference line item. The -- you can get 24 the hours that you're required to with what you've budgeted 25 and meet all requirements? 8-19-03 wk 23 1 MS. RECTOR: Hopefully. Hopefully. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. And I'm looking at 3 it. It appears -- and I have no problem with doing this, 4 but that we are setting different conference items for 5 position based on actual need, as opposed to the flat, you 6 know, $900, $1,000 a person. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you have a problem 8 doing that? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, I think that's the 10 right way to do it. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, yeah, absolutely. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we each -- 13 different elected officials and department heads have 14 different obligations and different requirements, and some 15 of them definitely need to be there, so I don't -- and 16 different things. 17 MS. RECTOR: One of the things that the 18 legislators did to me this year, among the many, are Chapter 19 19 funds -- which funded one of our conferences during the 20 summer, and it funded it 100 percent. They are going to be 21 taking all 254 counties' Chapter 19 funds away from them for 22 a year in hopes to purchase a new statewide system, so that 23 conference will no longer be funded by Chapter 19 for this 24 upcoming year. But -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a good thing. 8-19-03 wk 24 1 Isn't that a good thing? 2 MS. RECTOR: That they're taking our Chapter 3 19? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That they're building 5 a new system. 6 MS. RECTOR: Well, yes. But in part of that 7 legislation, we wanted some -- some clarification that that 8 would come back to us the following year and not be 9 something that went away forever. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 11 MS. RECTOR: So, we were not happy until they 12 put that in there. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you think that's truly 14 going to be temporary? 15 MS. RECTOR: That's yet to be seen. I guess 16 we'll know in a year. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. You have that concern, 18 though, I'm sure. 19 MS. RECTOR: Of course, yes. Because we do 20 use those funds for other things than just this particular 21 conference. For equipment -- we can buy computers, printers 22 that enhance our Voter Registration department. It cannot 23 be used for anything else. It can't be -- you can't buy 24 furniture, desks, that type of thing; that's a County 25 responsibility. But anything that would enhance voter 8-19-03 wk 25 1 registration, we use those funds for. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Looks good. Clean and -- 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Is the amount 4 budgeted for deputies' salaries, is that based on the same 5 number of deputies for this budget as the budget -- 6 MS. RECTOR: Yes, nothing has changed in the 7 salary schedule that I submitted. It looks like that's the 8 exact figure, less the COLA. So -- 9 JUDGE TINLEY: It includes all the longevity 10 and -- 11 MS. RECTOR: Yes. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: -- educational increases 13 that -- 14 MS. RECTOR: And some of the adjustments. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: -- we made a commitment for 16 back, what, four years ago now? 17 MS. RECTOR: Yes. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Looks good. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: A question, but it's 22 probably more really to Tommy, as opposed to Paula. Why is 23 Software Maintenance down across the community, so many 24 departments? 25 MR. TOMLINSON: I think she has -- in the Tax 8-19-03 wk 26 1 Office, there was an extra payment for some -- for some 2 reason. Just -- 3 MS. RECTOR: I think it was last budget year, 4 Tommy, they missed one of the quarterly payments. And 5 they -- 6 MR. TOMLINSON: I think for actual this year, 7 we've made five payments -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 9 MR. TOMLINSON: -- for some reason. And I -- 10 so, I mean, they're -- according to their information, they 11 did not change. 12 MS. RECTOR: Mine did not change this year; 13 it remained the same. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: More a payment issue, 15 when payments are made, as opposed to change. Thank you. 16 MS. RECTOR: Anything else? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions? 18 Observations? Comments? Thank you, Ms. Rector. We 19 appreciate your cooperation. 20 MS. RECTOR: Thank you. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: While you're here, this 22 is -- you mentioned 9-1-1. 23 MS. RECTOR: Go ahead, Jonathan. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This isn't a budget 25 issue, really. It's more as to how -- are you just going to 8-19-03 wk 27 1 just -- how are you going to do the -- or work with the 2 9-1-1? How is that going to affect your office and how 3 you're going to handle it? 4 MS. RECTOR: That's going to affect my office 5 tremendously, because everything we do is mailings, whether 6 it's tax statements, voter registration cards, vehicle 7 registration. The problem that I have, and why that part of 8 my budget was so much higher, was because of the time frame 9 that the Post Office put on 9-1-1 -- it was not actually 10 9-1-1 -- when they were going to implement the new 9-1-1 11 addresses. Voter registration cards, by law, have to be 12 mailed in December. I was hoping that 9-1-1 and the Post 13 Office could coordinate it enough to where I could scoot 14 myself into January and still get my mailing done without 15 the State coming back to me and saying, "You're not 16 complying; you're not in December like you should be." But 17 they moved it to February. Well, we've got a March primary. 18 We have a cutoff date. We've got the confirmation cards 19 that have to go out. So, there was just not enough time in 20 that. And -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So you have to do 22 basically a double mailing? 23 MS. RECTOR: And that would be 24 out-of-the-county -- I mean out-of-the-city people -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 8-19-03 wk 28 1 MS. RECTOR: -- we'd be mailing to. And then 2 on the tax statement end of it, next year, hopefully, we'll 3 get all the new 9-1-1 addresses in place, working with the 4 Post Office, and get the taxpayers' addresses all changed, 5 as well as vehicle registration. And it's going to be a 6 mess for a couple years until we get it all in line. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And this is, I guess, 8 related, because you sit on the Appraisal Board as well. 9 How connected, through the computer and -- you know, are the 10 different databases in your office and Appraisal District? 11 I'm thinking as we're talking about -- septic comes up a 12 lot, as to being able to track where things are using 13 existing databases as opposed to trying to reinvent the 14 wheel. 15 MS. RECTOR: Well, we run off the same type 16 of system that they do, and I have a tie into their 17 mainframe in my office. So, as they update, then the 18 supplemental corrections come to me, and it's just loaded 19 onto our system and makes all the necessary corrections. 20 Sometimes they're not as frequent as would I like, but in 21 the future, we're hoping to go to a one-unit system where 22 the Appraisal District and the Tax Office both share one 23 system and share all their data back and forth, where we 24 would not have to be doing things by tape and getting onto 25 their computer and looking and trying to figure out what an 8-19-03 wk 29 1 appraiser had done and the notes in there, trying to make 2 out their notes. And that's kind of where we're looking to 3 in the next few years, is to move off of our current system 4 onto a more shared system with the Appraisal District. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: As you all do that in 6 your office, 'cause your office probably has -- I mean, from 7 a records and data standpoint, working with a lot of our 8 county residents, the more we can get, you know, one 9 computer system that everyone can talk to, the better, even 10 if it takes some expenditure. If we can get 9-1-1 to be 11 able to talk to your office, be able to talk to the 12 Appraisal District, to be able to talk to other government 13 entities, I see a huge plus to the public. 14 MS. RECTOR: Well, I think with the new 15 system that I'm looking at -- it's a Windows-based -- most 16 things will be done via internet, so it would -- there'd be 17 a lot more access from outside entities to get to the 18 information that's allowed by law for them to view. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm glad to hear that's 20 the direction that y'all are going. 21 MS. RECTOR: Well, the school district, 22 K.I.S.D., is already moving over to this system; they're 23 going to be training this next week, and I'm going to be 24 sitting in on the training. I've already looked at the 25 package, both the appraisal district package and the 8-19-03 wk 30 1 collection package, and Software Group is moving to 2 Windows-based, but it's going to be a big expense to the 3 County for me to move over to that. And I think if we 4 coordinate it just right, we're not going to be spending -- 5 I think we'll be spending less money in moving to an 6 entirely different system than to try to move to the 7 Windows-based environment that Software's coming up with. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, good. Thanks for 9 the update. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 11 MS. RECTOR: Anything else? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 13 MS. RECTOR: Mm-hmm. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Moving right along, we have 15 the District Clerk. 16 MS. UECKER: Good morning. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: I believe you can find her 18 budget on Page 23. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 23. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: 23, correct. 21 MS. UECKER: I don't know what your procedure 22 is. Do you want me to go over everything? Or -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tell me about your 24 deputy clerks' salary. What's going on with all that? 25 MS. UECKER: Okay. What happened, as all of 8-19-03 wk 31 1 you know, Simona Garza retired, and at some point after 2 that, she had made a decision that she thought she might 3 want to come back, and I came back and the Court approved 4 her rehire. But after thinking about it more, I kind of -- 5 I think I convinced her that that would not be of great 6 benefit to her. So -- but she is going to remain part-time. 7 So, when Judge Tinley asked me not to fill that position, I 8 said I could -- I would agree to do that; try it for a year 9 and let's see, based on the fact that Simona was going to 10 work part-time for me for at least the next year. So, I've 11 talked to her, and she said as far as she knows, you know, 12 unless something happens, she wants to continue to work 13 part-time. Therefore, I agreed, based on that, that I would 14 not fill that open position, at the request of the Judge. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How many would -- is -- 16 with what your deputy numbers are now, you're going from 13 17 positions? Or how many positions do you have right now? 18 MS. UECKER: I've got seven. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Seven to six, or eight to 20 seven? 21 MS. UECKER: Eight to seven. Plus a 22 part-time now. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You see some 24 additional part-time as a result of that, though, not 25 filling that position? 8-19-03 wk 32 1 MS. UECKER: Yes, absolutely. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: As part of that process, 3 are you going to be increasing responsibility to some of the 4 others and they'll be moving up? 5 MS. UECKER: Yes, I have to. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Good. 7 MS. UECKER: As a matter of fact, I'm 8 seriously considering going to a 10-hour day, 4-day workweek 9 to accommodate some of that. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How neat. 11 MS. UECKER: Well, you know, there's a lot 12 you can get done in two hours a day when the office is 13 closed or you don't have to answer the phone. So, it'll be, 14 you know, kind of a test program for a month or so, to see 15 how it works, and as soon as I get the legislative changes 16 done, I'm going to try to implement that and see how that 17 works. The staff has agreed that they'd love to try it. 18 They want to do it. So -- 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's a technique 20 that's been used for quite a long time in industry, and 21 there are lots of advantages to it, to the employee and to 22 the employer. 23 MS. UECKER: Absolutely. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Productivity. 25 MS. UECKER: If you can come in at 7:00, 8-19-03 wk 33 1 leave at 6:00, and have a day a week off, the biggest 2 problem's going to be determining who gets which day. 3 That's where the cat fight's going to be for me. So -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Your office can stay open 5 still five days a week; you just have a rotating staff? 6 MS. UECKER: Yes, still be open 8:00 to 5:00 7 for the public, five days a week. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see, okay. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Good. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Typically, it 11 reduces overtime, if you have overtime. From the employee's 12 point of view, it reduces commuting time; they're only on 13 the road four days a week instead of five. It's a win-win, 14 usually. 15 MS. UECKER: Yeah, it is. I'm going to try 16 it. I've been talking about it for a couple of years now, 17 but I think I'm to the point where I'm going to do it. And 18 this open position kind of forced my hand on it, so I think 19 it's going to work well. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Good. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Here again, I want to thank 22 Ms. Uecker for being very forthright and forthcoming with 23 the information about her office and cooperating with me in 24 my trying to work up a set of recommendations for her 25 budget, and I -- I think the end result is -- as you 8-19-03 wk 34 1 gentlemen can see, is -- is a benefit for all concerned. 2 And I appreciate her cooperation and her working with me, 3 helping me better understand the function of her office. 4 There's one other item that we discussed that probably has 5 some degree of importance that I suspect she's probably in a 6 position to want to talk to us about today, and that has to 7 do with her records and maybe doing some additional things 8 on the one hand and eliminating some others on the other 9 hand. And, for the Court's consideration, that would be in 10 the area of Capital Outlay. And, as I have told the Court 11 and told Ms. Uecker at the time that we were discussing her 12 budget, that any Capital Outlay items, with the exception of 13 Road and Bridge, were going to be matters that would be 14 presented to the Court on a case-by-case basis. Tell us -- 15 tell us what you've got cooking there, Ms. Uecker. 16 MS. UECKER: I thought I had sent everyone 17 that, and I hope I didn't leave that upstairs. My luck, I 18 probably did. But, basically, what has happened is, my 19 camera that we do all of our microfilming on is -- you know, 20 those are -- to replace, are, like, anywhere between $15,000 21 and $20,000, plus the maintenance, which is terrible. And 22 I'm at the point now where I need to replace that, so we're 23 looking at another $20,000. So, by -- if we image and pay 24 that one-time license fee, which is $16,000, not $20,000 -- 25 I went back and checked my notes -- which includes the 8-19-03 wk 35 1 license and the training and the hardware, the way I 2 understand it -- is that right? 3 (Mr. Tomlinson nodded.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: That's all included in the 16? 5 MS. UECKER: That's all included in the 6 $16,000. So, here it is. Current expense is, the way -- if 7 I have to buy a new camera and continue doing what I'm 8 doing, the current expenses would come to $35,462, which 9 includes 100 percent of that -- the salary going toward the 10 microfilm. It includes a new camera, which, with my 11 experience, they've had about a seven-year life span. 12 Maintenance and supplies, about $3,000 a year. Unexposed 13 film, $200. And the processing, which includes the diazo 14 duplicate and the original for storage, about $1,260. Now, 15 there's two other options that we can take here. Option 1 16 would be to reduce the salary to about 90 percent by 17 preparing our documents -- and we've decided that this isn't 18 actually maybe the way to go -- by preparing our documents, 19 the originals, after that case is final, after the judgment 20 is final, 30 days after it's signed, sending it by UPS to 21 Precision Micrographics in Austin. They film it, make the 22 duplicate, and have the original documents and our duplicate 23 for use in the office back within no more than four days. 24 It's all done, so at that point we just have to index it, 25 and that saves the actual microfilm. That would cost about 8-19-03 wk 36 1 $4,500 a year to do that, based on previous numbers of 2 microfilm. No camera needed. That would reduce the $35,000 3 to $29,000, almost $30,000. 4 Then we've come up with Option 3, and this is 5 what Judge Tinley and I discussed; that if we opt into the 6 imaging system, which the figure's going to be less here; 7 $16,000 divided by, say, 10 years for maybe the life of a 8 scanner would be $2,000. Actually be less, because that 9 would only be a one-time license fee. Then the TSG 10 maintenance on that imaging system is $800. Isn't that what 11 you told me on your imaging? Okay. Of course, at this 12 point, we could cut that salary to between 50 and 60 13 percent -- probably 60, because we're not doing as much of 14 the microfilming, which brings that down to $16,000. She 15 could be out doing other things, which she's doing now 16 anyway, which she's kind of behind on -- on the image -- I 17 mean the microfilming. 18 The unprocessed film, you know, the things I 19 would need to consider -- I mean, what I want to continue 20 doing is still microfilming by sending those documents to 21 Precision Micrographics, but they don't have to be 22 addressed. We'd use them for backup only. Microfilm is 23 still the only real, true, permanent record. State Library 24 considers imaging a permanent record, but it's really not, 25 because they have to be rewritten every 10 years. So, for 8-19-03 wk 37 1 the sake of the County records, I would still continue to 2 microfilm, but what I mean by "addressing," they wouldn't 3 have to be indexed in the general viewing index. They 4 wouldn't have to have -- you know, the outside of the 5 microfilm would just say records from January 1 to this 6 date. And the reason for that is, you know, if we have a 7 fire, all the images are gone, something happens to the 8 backup tapes, we do have this little tape back here that has 9 all of the images on it. I mean -- yeah, the microfilm 10 images. None of it would be addressed, but in that 11 emergency, we'd still have the option of going through there 12 and finding all the cases and readdressing them, and maybe 13 even reimaging. 'Cause you can do that from a 35-millimeter 14 film; you can transfer it to magnetic tape, and from there 15 back to images. So, considering that option, that brings 16 the $35,000 that we're doing now down to $24,000. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: The additional thing that I 18 think is attractive about going to the imaging, in my mind, 19 is the labor savings that you have in handling all these 20 documents when you're doing your own microfilming, or even 21 if you're outsourcing the actual filming, dealing with the 22 indexing and so forth, because the documents you would work 23 from are -- are readily available, and you wouldn't have all 24 this additional labor in primarily the indexing -- 25 MS. UECKER: Yes. 8-19-03 wk 38 1 JUDGE TINLEY: -- of the microfilm product 2 when you get that back, as they're doing now. Number one, 3 it would be -- it would be available to the public more 4 quickly, because it would actually be available when it's 5 actually filed. 6 MS. UECKER: Mm-hmm. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: It would be into the system. 8 And, secondly, over the long haul, you're going to save some 9 -- some labor costs that are going to get involved in what 10 she's doing now, that she would otherwise have. 11 MS. UECKER: And one of the more attractive 12 options, to me, here is that an image created from -- from 13 the scanning is a much better copy, although, you know, 14 microfilm is pretty good. And when you pull up the case on 15 the computer, rather than going into the index to find the 16 cartridge number and the frame number, and then going and 17 pulling the cartridge, putting it in a machine, you just -- 18 as you're -- while you're in that case, you go to images and 19 decide what you want and pull it up; there it is. If you 20 want to make a copy of it, you print it. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think this is -- I 22 mean, this was in your long-range plan two years ago. 23 MS. UECKER: Yes. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is nothing new, and 25 I think it's something that -- the direction that the Court 8-19-03 wk 39 1 was aware that pretty much all departments are going -- 2 MS. UECKER: Yes. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- in this direction. 4 And we needed to do it piecemeal a little bit. 5 MS. UECKER: True, but we hadn't actually put 6 a -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, you have the 8 numbers. 9 MS. UECKER: -- cost comparison to it until 10 now. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: In your summary, you lost 12 me a little bit as you were going through. 13 MS. UECKER: I'm sorry. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- I visited with you 15 once about outsourcing most of it to Austin. So, you're 16 looking at doing kind of a combination of getting -- doing 17 it internally, and then sending it up there for the 18 microfilming portion? 19 MS. UECKER: Yeah, just that backup film, 20 rather than doing it ourselves. What that -- what that does 21 is that eliminates the need for a camera completely. Right 22 now, I've got three reader-printers. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 24 MS. UECKER: I can probably eliminate two of 25 those right now. 8-19-03 wk 40 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. So we don't start 2 replacing them. The licensing -- is that licensed by the 3 County or by -- 4 MS. UECKER: I think it's by office. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: By office? 6 MS. PIEPER: I think so. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They get you coming and 8 going. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Linda, that would 11 require a capital expenditure of what, now? 12 MS. UECKER: The imaging system, which is the 13 $16,000 for one. Now, the way I understand it -- and the 14 Auditor knows more about this, but if I were to require or 15 ask for two scanners, would that require another license? 16 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 17 MS. UECKER: Okay. So -- you know, and I 18 think I -- I talked to the Judge and mentioned to him that 19 we are seeing some increase in filings; vexatious filings, 20 in my opinion, before tort reform takes effect. So, I mean, 21 the larger counties are just bombarded with, you know, these 22 people suing Jesus Christ and George Washington, and we 23 haven't seen quite that yet, but there are some cases that 24 are -- would not be able to be filed under tort reform. The 25 other -- okay, what other questions did you have? 8-19-03 wk 41 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you have a total 2 Capital Outlay figure required for that? 3 MS. UECKER: I'm sorry, for the imaging? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 5 MS. UECKER: Yes. I think I had actually 6 sent it to you at one time, but I can -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, it's the same -- 8 sounds like the one in your proposal is a little bit 9 different than that, unless I was -- that's not the one I'm 10 maybe thinking of. 11 MS. UECKER: Yes, mm-hmm. This was done 12 after my original budget figures were turned in. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, okay. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me, if I might, before -- 15 before I forget it, if you'll go to Page 2 of her budget, 16 something got on the wrong line. 17 MS. UECKER: Oh, yeah. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: When the budget was being 19 prepared. Line 569, that should be -- in the last two 20 columns, it should read $600 and $600, as I -- 21 MS. UECKER: Yes. That's for the two PC 22 printers. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, those are two small 24 printers. Those are less than $1,000 expenditures. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 8-19-03 wk 42 1 JUDGE TINLEY: The $2,600 was originally 2 picked up in the -- out of the Capital Outlay item that she 3 was requesting in her budget for another big printer, and 4 that's -- if any explanation is needed how that figure got 5 in there, that's how it got there. But -- 6 MS. UECKER: Yeah. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What is it? 26 is 8 out and what's in? Six? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I think she still wants 10 the 26, if I'm not -- plus the -- 11 MS. UECKER: 600. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, plus -- you know, we're 13 talking about the imaging system too, part and parcel of 14 Capital Outlay, but the $2,600 would be under her requested 15 Capital Outlay, in addition to any request for imaging 16 equipment or the system on that. 17 MS. UECKER: And the $2,600, that is for a 18 PaySmart printer, one like the Auditor has in their office. 19 And the reason for that is, anytime we're printing these 20 indexes, you know, as often as need be, we have to do it -- 21 send it to the Tax Office. The way their documents are 22 lined up is not like ours, so we have to get it relined up. 23 And we have to watch it, because sometimes it goes off-line, 24 which -- I mean, they're kind enough to do it for us, but if 25 I start a job at, say, 5 o'clock because they're using it 8-19-03 wk 43 1 for something else, it may be way off-line by the next 2 morning, 'cause it takes several hours. 'Cause one printing 3 is usually a half a box of paper for the indexes, for -- we 4 print separate indexes for criminal, civil, tax, and family. 5 And they have to be done periodically; actually, oftener 6 than what I'm doing now, but it's so inconvenient that -- 7 and, you know, I -- I appreciate Paula's office letting us 8 do that down there, but it does need to be watched so it 9 doesn't go off-line. And this way, we could print it, you 10 know, while we continue to do our work, 'cause there's 11 somebody sitting right next to it. And -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is the -- both on this 13 printer, if we approve that, and also on the imaging system, 14 would the printer be compatible, so that if Paula had an 15 emergency and hers went down, she could use yours? 16 MS. UECKER: Yes, mm-hmm. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And imaging, the same 18 thing? 19 MS. UECKER: Be systems printers. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But with the imaging 21 also, if there was a problem with yours, you could use 22 Jannett's short-term? 23 MS. UECKER: Yeah. I can send -- I can send 24 the job down to Jannett's printer right now. As a matter of 25 fact, sometimes that happens and something ends up printing 8-19-03 wk 44 1 on your printer. You go, "I didn't do that." Of course, 2 it's usually, you know -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just -- we need to make 4 sure that everything is, you know -- 5 MS. PIEPER: We get stuff from the jail every 6 morning. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 8 MS. UECKER: 'Cause they select the wrong 9 printer or enter the wrong PTR number or whatever. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Specifically, on the Capital 12 Outlay, you're requesting the $2,600 for the big printer? 13 MS. UECKER: Yeah, the PaySmart printer. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. And what are you 15 requesting total for the imaging system? I assume you're 16 requesting it? 17 MS. UECKER: Yes. Be the $16,000. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So, you're going to try 19 it with one scanner? 20 MS. UECKER: I'm going to try it. I'd like 21 to try it with one scanner. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 23 MS. UECKER: Hopefully, with reducing her 24 time to, you know, the 60 percent, she can use the other 60 25 (sic) for doing the scanning. What we would need to -- I 8-19-03 wk 45 1 don't think we'd have to do anything. I think I've already 2 made that adjustment on the maintenance contracts, because 3 I've already -- last year I eliminated two of the 4 maintenance contracts on the printers -- the 5 reader-printers. 'Cause they don't -- you know, they don't 6 need attention that often, and it was cheaper to just have 7 them come and fix it, and then pay for whatever expense that 8 was. But this year, if we eliminate the maintenance 9 contract on the camera, that would cover -- we'd come up 10 about the same as far as the maintenance on the imaging 11 system. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The funds for the imaging 13 system, can they come from Records Management, or are they 14 coming from -- 15 MS. UECKER: They can, yes. There's two 16 Records Management funds for the county right now. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mm-hmm. 18 MS. UECKER: One of them is the fee that the 19 County Clerk collects to be used for records management only 20 in her office, and that's been probably, what, 10 years, 21 Jannett? 22 MS. PIEPER: A while. 23 MS. UECKER: A while. Then the other fee 24 that I collect for records preservation -- do you collect 25 that one too, or not? I don't think so. But another 8-19-03 wk 46 1 records preservation -- records preservation fee that I 2 collect is for use by the whole county, including the 3 Commissioners Court, the Sheriff, whoever. I talked to the 4 Auditor last week, and he tells me that there is $37,000 in 5 that right now. $5,000 of that was approved by this Court 6 last year for me to -- on the real, real old 1800's 7 documents that we're having acid-washed and put in mylar 8 sleeves. I think I brought one and showed it to you. That 9 will be spent before the end of the year. He's coming to 10 get them either this week or next week, and they go to New 11 Jersey, actually. And maybe Mr. Williams could take them up 12 there for us. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a possibility. 14 MS. UECKER: Okay. Well -- 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We'll talk. 16 MS. UECKER: And I would request another 17 $5,000 next year. And I told the Judge, I think in about 18 three more years, I'll have all of those documents encased 19 where they can be preserved forever, including an 1863 -- 20 1860 original Sam Houston signature, so -- which I -- right 21 now, I've got in a picture frame. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, if I understand 23 you correctly, the $16,000 comes out of Records Management? 24 MS. UECKER: That would be up to this Court. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 8-19-03 wk 47 1 MS. UECKER: You know, if it's there. Now, I 2 don't know if the Sheriff or some of the other offices are 3 requesting any of that money or not, but certainly some of 4 it could. Now, the good news is -- is that fund will be 5 increased -- will be actually doubled, because, effective 6 January the 1st, because of Senate Bill 325, all fees' 7 effectiveness goes to January the 1st rather than September 8 the 30th, so that fee will be doubled as far as the District 9 Clerk's fees are concerned. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How much is built -- does 11 it build a year? How much goes into that, about? Just 12 roughly, Tommy. Do you know? 13 MR. TOMLINSON: $8,000 to $10,000 a year, if 14 I recall. 15 MS. UECKER: Because right now, I'm just 16 collecting $5 a case. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, it feels -- I'd be in 18 favor of taking the full $16,000 out of that Records 19 Management. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would too. 21 MS. UECKER: And what about the other $5,000? 22 For the -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: To continue to do 24 what you're doing? 25 MS. UECKER: Yes. 8-19-03 wk 48 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would think so too. 2 MS. UECKER: So that would be, just for me, a 3 total of $21,000 out of the fund. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How much are you taking, 5 Jannett? 6 MS. PIEPER: Almost $5,000. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: $5,000? 8 MS. PIEPER: But, no, mine's out of a 9 different Records Management. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: That's out of a different -- 11 MS. UECKER: She has her own. However, she 12 still can use the other one; that's for all county 13 officials. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that's -- I 15 wouldn't have a problem doing both of those. I'd leave 16 basically about $16,000 left in that fund. It will build up 17 again pretty quick. 18 MS. UECKER: There's even -- you know, 19 Jannett would -- would do it, you know, if it was -- I think 20 she would. But she could even say, on her fund, it's okay 21 for the Treasurer to use it if she has plenty, and I know 22 there's some county clerks that have done that. But as long 23 as we have enough money in the one for the general county, 24 that won't be necessary. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: You've got one fee that's 8-19-03 wk 49 1 going to be -- that's going to be doubling, is it not? As a 2 result of -- 3 MS. UECKER: Records Preservation fee, I 4 think, is the only one doubling. But we will be charging $5 5 extra on -- as a filing fee; it goes from $45 to $50, plus 6 there's a sliding scale if there's more than -- what is it, 7 50 defendants? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: More than 10 plaintiffs, 11 to 9 20 -- 10 MS. UECKER: Yeah. And that was basically 11 written -- that's House Bill 3167, I believe. That was 12 written for class action suits, breast implants, you know, 13 those type of -- asbestos cases, where in some counties 14 those go up to 5,000 parties with one filing fee. So -- 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Does your adjustment 16 of fees require a public hearing like Jannett's does? 17 MS. UECKER: No. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: The doubling of the Records 19 Management doesn't need it. You just get to keep $5 of it 20 in your bailiwick; isn't that correct? 21 MS. UECKER: Right. I will come back to the 22 Court prior to September -- January the 1st. We do have 23 to -- the Court did have to order -- yeah, sign an order 24 establishing the Records Preservation Fund. Now, the thing 25 for -- I think we need to go back and increase that to the 8-19-03 wk 50 1 full $10, because you don't have to charge the $10. You 2 can. Right now, it's $5. So, we'll come back sometime 3 prior to January 1 and request the -- that the full $10 be 4 established. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: What -- what would it hurt for 6 us to do it at the same time that we're doing the one on 7 Jannett, and be that much ahead of the game, but effective 8 as of January 1, when it really takes effect? 9 MS. UECKER: That's fine. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 11 MS. UECKER: Her and I can get together, 12 and -- 13 JUDGE TINLEY: We ought to go ahead and put 14 that on the agenda, just like the other one, and get that 15 out of the way. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Save on notice fees, too. 17 MS. PIEPER: Right. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't think there's got to 19 be a public notice. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: She doesn't require a 21 public hearing. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: But we've got to approve the 24 imposition of that -- 25 MS. UECKER: Her and I will get together and 8-19-03 wk 51 1 do it at the same time. That's fine. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: What we need to do is be sure 3 that we've got an agenda item to cover that, so that I think 4 on the one for the County Clerk, we're going to need to do 5 that -- probably a good idea to put it on next Monday's 6 agenda. 7 MS. SOVIL: That archival fee, you were 8 talking about? 9 MS. PIEPER: I don't know if that date -- if 10 the Senate Bill changes the date of it. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Setting a public 12 hearing? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm, yeah. Because of the 14 public hearing. We're going to have to set that as part of 15 the budget, and we're probably going to be doing that 16 Monday, anyway. 17 (Discussion off the record.) 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So I make sure I have my 19 notes correct, under your Capital Outlay, we have $2,600 20 coming out of the General Fund, $16,000 for imaging out of 21 the Records Management Fund, and $5,000 for old records 22 management out of the records fund? 23 MS. UECKER: Right, and $600 out of Operating 24 Equipment. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 8-19-03 wk 52 1 MS. UECKER: 600 -- 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Remains. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: $600 remains under 4 Operating Equipment, okay. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: And, based upon the totals 6 that I've got, that's a $1,500 increase in available funds 7 from what was in the -- in the recommended budget as total. 8 Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a good plan. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What other -- I know, 11 Jannett, you're pretty much with the imaging. Paula, do you 12 need to go down that imaging road as well? Or is your -- 13 are you -- 14 MS. RECTOR: We're already scanning. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're already doing the 16 same thing? Okay. So, the -- 17 MS. UECKER: Are you using TSG, or -- 18 MS. RECTOR: Mm-hmm. 19 MS. UECKER: You are? 20 MS. RECTOR: Yeah. 21 MS. UECKER: Okay. 22 MS. SOVIL: Only one left is Rusty. Remember 23 all his records? 24 MS. UECKER: The Sheriff and I came last 25 year, remember, and requested it. As a matter of fact, I 8-19-03 wk 53 1 think I've requested it two years in a row, and it's been 2 rejected. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Third time's the 4 charm. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's because we gave 6 you so much other stuff. 7 MS. UECKER: Yeah, that's it. (Laughter.) 8 That's why I'm having to shuffle money from every little 9 corner I can. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We appreciate it. 11 MS. UECKER: Yes, sir. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything -- any other 13 questions? Comments? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got a question of 15 the Auditor, I think. Tommy, on Line Item 428, that 16 Reimburse Travel, just remind me what that is. If my memory 17 serves me, is that -- she possibly may send an employee to 18 do some banking or something like that, and then they can be 19 reimbursed? 20 MR. TOMLINSON: That's correct. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I noticed in 22 Mrs. Rector's budget, she doesn't have that line. Is there 23 a reason for that? Or -- 24 MS. RECTOR: What is that? 25 MR. TOMLINSON: The one that -- that is in 8-19-03 wk 54 1 the District Clerk's budget. It originally started when one 2 of the District Judges was doing pretrials out at the Law 3 Enforcement Center, and -- 4 MS. UECKER: Well, it's always been there. 5 And I think the reason -- the reason for it always being 6 there is because of the court registry accounts we have in 7 other -- I've got one in Marble Falls, I have two in 8 Fredericksburg, I've got three in San Antonio, one in 9 Rocksprings. And that -- you know, that just requires 10 usually a trip -- a trip to open it and then a trip to close 11 it. Maybe 18 years in between, you know. That, or maybe 10 12 days. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You don't use that as 14 an employee of yours who runs downs to the bank to make the 15 deposit, the monies that you've taken in? 16 MS. UECKER: No. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You don't use it that 18 way? That's what I thought it was. Why don't I just shut 19 up? That may be a wise thing. 20 MS. UECKER: I ain't saying nothing. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions of 22 Ms. Uecker? 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Comment. I 24 appreciate Ms. Uecker's work to improve productivity. Good 25 management. I think you got some -- on the right track; got 8-19-03 wk 55 1 some good ideas. 2 MS. UECKER: Well, the 10-hour workday plan, 3 I've got it on paper. I just haven't, you know, got it 4 implemented yet. Of course, then the other thing I'm 5 thinking, okay, why don't I start slow and make it a -- you 6 know, a 9-hour work day and see how that works out? But I 7 may go for the whole thing. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just jump into it and 9 go for it. Columbus took a chance. Why not we? 10 MS. UECKER: And one of my favorite sayings 11 is, you'll never -- what is it? "You can't discover new 12 land if you don't leave the shore." 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Christopher Columbus. 14 I heard him say it. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Your Conference item is 16 sufficient to get what you need and anyone else in your 17 office? 18 MS. UECKER: I think so. It's still less, 19 but we went over that penny by penny, plus the employee 20 training is $1,000, and then mine is $2,000. I think that 21 will be all right, 'cause I'm eliminating the A & M 22 conference for lack of education. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. 24 MS. UECKER: And -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What a bother. 8-19-03 wk 56 1 MS. UECKER: And I'm on the Board of 2 Directors of the new Texas District Court Alliance, which is 3 a very, very intense day-and-a-half conference. Four of us 4 actually started it from funds that we had left over from 5 some legislative association, and we offered 10 and a half 6 hours of education in a day and a half. So, I mean -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good for you. 8 MS. UECKER: We work through lunch. They 9 bring lunch in, set it in front of us, and we just keep 10 going -- keep eating. If you want a break, you have to go 11 to the bathroom, you just go. If you want a Coke, they're 12 in the back; you just get up and go, bring it back, and we 13 keep working. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But not three days of 15 hotel rooms and all. 16 MS. UECKER: Oh, good lord, no, sir. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Golf tournaments and 18 dominoes. 19 MS. UECKER: Two days of motivational 20 speakers and -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that a boring -- 22 MS. UECKER: No door prizes. There's no 23 vendors, no -- we just go and we work. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I love it, absolutely 25 love it. 8-19-03 wk 57 1 MS. UECKER: Okay, what else? And you're -- 2 you're not talking about salaries or anything this morning? 3 Okay, that's all. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: You also -- I don't know 5 whether you were in here earlier, about position schedules 6 for the coming year that conform to your budget. You need 7 to be sure that you give the Treasurer that position 8 schedule so that -- so that we've -- because that's adopted 9 as part of the budget. 10 MS. UECKER: Okay. But I don't do that until 11 after the budget is adopted? 12 MS. PIEPER: Do it before. 13 MS. UECKER: Before? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Go ahead and give her as much 15 heads up as you can. 16 MS. UECKER: Actually, I think I already 17 have, but I'll get with her office again and make sure. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, thank you very much. We 19 appreciate your -- 20 MS. UECKER: Thank you. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: -- your being here and your 22 cooperation. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thanks. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: We don't have another one 25 scheduled until 1:30, when I believe we have the Treasurer 8-19-03 wk 58 1 scheduled to be with us. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that correct? So, we will 4 stand in recess until 1:30. 5 (Recess taken from 11:46 a.m. to 1:30 p.m.) 6 - - - - - - - - - - 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let me call the meeting 8 back to order of this workshop -- budget workshop that was 9 posted. We adjourned before lunch, and set to reconvene at 10 1:30. It's now a couple minutes after 1:30. Looks like the 11 next item up is the Treasurer. I find -- I find that one on 12 Page 36. Is that correct? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct in my book. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Nemec? 15 MS. NEMEC: Good morning. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: How are you this afternoon? 17 MS. NEMEC: Doing good. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: What particular items of your 19 proposed budget would be care to discuss? 20 MS. NEMEC: Well, I -- I'm pleased with the 21 recommended figures that I received from you. The only 22 thing that I need to discuss with you is the overtime. I 23 did have $953 this year in overtime that was paid, and 24 that's due to just meeting deadlines and working over 40 25 hours a week. The way the policy reads is we accumulate 8-19-03 wk 59 1 overtime as comp time, and if the employee can't take it off 2 within three months, then that has to be paid to them. So, 3 that's just to have there in case that happens again. Other 4 than that, I can work with the figures that I was presented 5 with. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Conferences. We went 7 from $1,000 to $2,000. 8 MS. NEMEC: Right. I had requested -- I 9 believe I had requested around $2,000 last year. As it 10 stands right now, I am 10 hours short in receiving my CEU 11 credits, and so I'm going to have to wait and take that 12 money out of next year's budget to complete this year's 13 credits. And so I have a feeling that it's going to put me 14 again short, but it was -- I wasn't aware last year that we 15 were supposed to come back. I think everybody requested a 16 certain amount and it was cut back, and some elected 17 officials were informed to come back and that money would be 18 given back to them, and I was not aware of it, along with 19 another elected official. So, that's why our conference 20 money was low this year. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Ms. Nemec, besides 22 yourself, you have one full-time and one part-time? 23 MS. NEMEC: Yes, sir. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Looks good to me. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions? 8-19-03 wk 60 1 Comments? Concerns from anybody on the Court? 2 MS. NEMEC: Okay? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Short and sweet. 4 MS. NEMEC: If I may, I'd like to discuss a 5 couple of other things that aren't related directly to my 6 budget, which is the retirement. The retirement is going to 7 go up from 7.92 to 7.97 percent. We do have the option 8 of -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What were those numbers 10 again? Excuse me. 11 MS. NEMEC: I'm sorry. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What were those numbers 13 again? 14 MS. NEMEC: 7.92 is our current contribution 15 right now. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 97. 17 MS. NEMEC: I'm sorry, 7.9 -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 2. 19 MS. NEMEC: -- 2, and it's going to be going 20 up to 7.97. We do have the option of getting a supplemental 21 death benefit for our employees for an additional 22 .26 percent added to that 7.97, so that's not a decision you 23 need to make right now, but we need to have this into the 24 retirement system by the end of December. So, if we are 25 going to go with that, it needs to be calculated into 8-19-03 wk 61 1 everyone's retirement figure. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: When is the effective date of 3 that retirement increase? 4 MS. NEMEC: January 1st, 2004. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So -- 6 MS. NEMEC: So, it would just be nine months. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: So, the figures, as calculated 8 into all of these various budgets for retirement, are based 9 on 7.92? 10 MS. NEMEC: You know, I don't really remember 11 what everybody -- what figure everyone used. We just -- we 12 received this not too long ago, so I don't know if, during 13 the budget process, if everyone was using the 7.92 or the 14 7.97. I'd have to go back and look at everybody's payroll 15 figures to -- do you know? 16 MS. PIEPER: Judge, mine was based on 7.92. 17 MR. TOMLINSON: 7.92. 18 MS. NEMEC: 7.92. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: 92? Okay. 20 MS. NEMEC: All that's going to change, 21 anyway. I've been updating the payroll schedule; I was 22 hoping to have it ready for you all today, with the current 23 policy in place, and then the new -- or the proposed policy. 24 And I -- I have it on my computer, but it started printing 25 garbage right before I got here. I tried to get ahold of 8-19-03 wk 62 1 Shaun, but I couldn't get ahold of him, so I was hoping 2 tomorrow at 2 o'clock, for the general discussion, if I 3 could print -- present the position schedule as the policy 4 is now, and then the proposed policy with the different 5 figures. Another thing I had -- do y'all have any more 6 questions on the retirement figures? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What is the amount of 8 supplemental death benefit? 9 MS. NEMEC: The amount? The percentage 10 amount that we would have to contribute, or the amount -- 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, what does the 12 extra .26 provide? 13 MS. NEMEC: It provides -- at the time of an 14 employee's death, it provides their beneficiary the annual 15 income of that employee, a lump-sum annual premium. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: For what period of time? 17 MS. NEMEC: For the period of time -- if they 18 decease, whatever time they decease, whatever that annual -- 19 that annual salary is for that employee. It will pay their 20 beneficiary a lump sum. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For the remainder of 22 that particular calendar year? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: No, just -- just a one-time 24 payment equal to the salary. 25 MS. NEMEC: Right. 8-19-03 wk 63 1 JUDGE TINLEY: One year's salary is the 2 benefit. 3 MS. NEMEC: Right. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That might be worth 6 it. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Did you say it would 8 provide a one-year -- one year's salary benefit? 9 MS. NEMEC: Yes, sir. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or -- or what remains 11 from the time the person died? Which? 12 MS. NEMEC: No, it will provide them the 13 annual. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One-year annualized 15 salary benefit? 16 MS. NEMEC: Right. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 18 MS. NEMEC: Another thing employees have been 19 asking for for a while is direct deposits. For -- instead 20 of receiving a paycheck on the 15th and the end of the 21 month, there's several employees who have requested if we 22 could go on direct deposit for payroll. I have talked to 23 Security State Bank and talked to our Software Group, and 24 approximately, to get everything set up with the software, 25 it will be approximately $3,000 to do that. From there, I 8-19-03 wk 64 1 -- I can't tell you how much it would be for any additional, 2 but it would save on checks and envelopes and things like 3 that. So, that's something that y'all might want to think 4 about, to provide that benefit to our employees. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's a software cost? 6 Or is it -- 7 MS. NEMEC: Software cost is about $2,500, 8 and Security State Bank is around $300. Those are just -- 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The charge? 10 MS. NEMEC: Yes. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Tell me a little bit about 12 that, if you would. Would that only be applicable to -- to 13 those that, for example, are banking there with -- with this 14 particular bank? 15 MS. NEMEC: No. What would happen is, every 16 employee would have to fill out a form stating which bank 17 they bank with, and our bank depository would forward their 18 funds to their bank, whatever bank they direct them to. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't know the 20 economics on that, but I do know that some organizations or 21 entities require direct deposit; they don't have a choice. 22 So, it must be some economics to it, but I don't understand 23 it. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Most of your government 25 retirement benefits, they require that you do direct 8-19-03 wk 65 1 deposit, if I'm not mistaken. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It could eliminate 3 the cost of preparing checks if everybody did it. 4 MS. NEMEC: And I just put an order in for 5 checks, but I'm going to call them and tell them to hold off 6 till the Court makes a decision on that. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Have you had a lot of 8 employees inquire about it? 9 MS. NEMEC: Yes, they've been inquiring about 10 it for a few years already. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If we went to it 100 12 percent, is there a -- do you know what the savings would be 13 for that when we cut out payroll checks altogether, or are 14 they the same check number? 15 MS. NEMEC: No, we wouldn't -- we wouldn't 16 need payroll checks any more. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you know what the 18 savings would be if we required or made it mandatory for 19 direct deposit? 20 MS. NEMEC: I really don't. You know, my 21 estimate's going to be around $1,000. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, you're getting 23 ready to order checks. How many would you order, and how 24 long would that last? What would it cost? 25 MS. NEMEC: The checks that I would -- I 8-19-03 wk 66 1 think my costs for the checks that I'm ordering right now is 2 around $580 or so, and that will probably last seven months. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Are they payroll checks only, 5 or other -- other checks? 6 MS. NEMEC: No, just payroll checks, along 7 with payroll envelopes and -- 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Sounds like that 9 unless you can cut staff, there's not a real big savings on 10 it. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: What about that issue? 12 MS. NEMEC: I'm sorry, what was that you 13 said? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Eliminating some of your labor 15 costs in your office. Would it reduce the labor cost in 16 your office? 17 MS. NEMEC: I don't see why it would. The 18 only -- the only thing that it would reduce is stuffing the 19 paychecks in the envelopes as far as staff time is 20 concerned. That's the only reduction there. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Looks like it's a 22 savings of about $1,000, and we have $1,000 in the overtime. 23 Does that make up the overtime? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- if you do it, the 25 Software fee that's $2,500, about, is that a one-time 8-19-03 wk 67 1 charge? 2 MS. NEMEC: Yes. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This would pay for 4 itself, I mean, worst case, over three years, two to three 5 years. 6 MS. NEMEC: Mm-hmm. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: How long is your depository 8 contract good for? 9 MS. NEMEC: I think we have it for another 10 two years. Is that correct, Tommy? Or 2005? 11 MR. TOMLINSON: I think it's two years, two 12 more years. 13 MS. NEMEC: Two or more years. It's probably 14 2005. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: If there were a different 16 depository selected at the end of this current contract, 17 we'd be looking at another setup cost? 18 MS. NEMEC: Probably -- well, it -- I'm sure 19 that they would add that to our contract figures. That part 20 of it is not very expensive. The bank is only charging us 21 $300. It's the Software Group that the cost really comes in 22 with. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 24 MS. NEMEC: Not surprising at all. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: When you're through 8-19-03 wk 68 1 with that one, I'd like to talk a little bit about group 2 insurance. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What? 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Group insurance. Is 5 this a good time? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: There's the insurance manager 7 right there. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. Ms. Nemec, 9 help me see if I understand our group insurance. If an 10 employee opts for employee-only coverage, employee coverage 11 only for the employee, then that's at no cost to the 12 employee? 13 MS. NEMEC: Correct. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: County pays the 15 entire amount. If, on the other hand, the employee opts to 16 cover his dependents, and there's various levels of that, 17 how much does the County pay of that portion, of the 18 coverage? 19 MS. NEMEC: It only pays for the employee 20 portion. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: When I see a cost in 22 here, it's for employee-only enrollment? 23 MS. NEMEC: That's correct. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, just, for 25 example, your department, are there two of you enrolled, and 8-19-03 wk 69 1 the cost is about $11,000 a year? 2 MS. NEMEC: Yes, sir. Our -- they're -- we 3 only pay for employees who work 40 hours. Part-time 4 employees are not covered by the county insurance. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What's the reason 6 for the steep increase in insurance coverage costs? 7 MS. NEMEC: Well, last year, what we had in 8 the budget was just an estimated figure. When we -- when we 9 did our budget, we didn't have our renewal rates, so these 10 rates that you're receiving now are to make up for that 11 shortage, plus an increase for this year's rates. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Does the -- the 13 $200,000 that were lost on one claim, does that have 14 anything to do with the steep increase? 15 MS. NEMEC: I'm sorry. Does the $200,000 16 what? 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That was lost on one 18 claim, the -- the infamous claim where the Court approved 19 the $400,000 sort of advance payment, and then only got 20 $200,000 of that back, that $200,000 that was lost, has that 21 got anything to do with the steep increase? 22 MS. NEMEC: Well, we haven't received firm 23 renewal rates yet, but any time you go into your 24 reinsurance, I'm sure that that affects our rates. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thank you. 8-19-03 wk 70 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Barbara, on that, is 2 there -- are there any pools that Kerr County could join? 3 Even though it may not have a -- help us on the rates right 4 now, down the road it would be by getting into a larger 5 pool? 6 MS. NEMEC: There are. There are some 7 options that we could look at. I know TAC has a pool, and 8 then our third-party administrators have also discussed 9 having pools with the City and the school districts here in 10 Kerr County or surrounding counties. It's just a matter of 11 everybody's renewing their insurances at the same time, and 12 other people wanting to take on our risk or us wanting to 13 take on their risk of claims. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It just seems to me, with 15 the -- the risk exposure, and I guess the claims we've had 16 since I've been a Commissioner, it seems that they've been 17 high. I've been told numerous times they -- our rate 18 increases are due to, you know, the occurrences that we've 19 had. And based on that, it seems that it would be far 20 beneficial to the County to get into a larger pool so we can 21 spread that risk a little bit more. 22 MS. NEMEC: It can, and then it can hurt us 23 too. You just -- that's something you just never know. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, generally -- 25 MS. NEMEC: They may be having the same 8-19-03 wk 71 1 experiences that we are, or worse or better. You just never 2 know. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just -- I mean, I've 4 talked to several insurance people about that, and almost 5 without exception, they say the larger the pool, the better. 6 MS. NEMEC: Of course, when we do that, 7 they're going to want to know what our experience has been, 8 and after they find out, they may not want us to go on with 9 them. So -- 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. That's what I'm 11 saying; there may be a short-term -- you know, may not help, 12 but long-term, I think it would be very beneficial to the 13 County to get into a larger pool, because it doesn't seem, 14 in the last six years I've been looking at it, that our 15 current County pool is working real well. Doesn't mean to 16 say -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, they may not let 18 us in, though. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well -- 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Didn't we recently 21 approve an RFP for insurance purposes? 22 MS. NEMEC: Yes. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's the status of 24 that? 25 MS. NEMEC: I haven't received any requests. 8-19-03 wk 72 1 JUDGE TINLEY: The RFP that was approved was 2 for everything besides health care benefits. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We didn't have health 4 care? Okay. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, there was one -- there 6 was one on the table. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's right. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: That same day, but it wasn't 9 approved for the health care benefits. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I recall. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: It was not. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Anyway, I think we're 13 getting a little bit beyond your budget anyway, but I think 14 it's something that, you know, I'll probably get with you 15 one-on-one, see if we can figure out how to do an agenda 16 item, see if we can get people to come in and talk with us 17 about risk pools. 18 MS. NEMEC: Okay. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me follow up, if I might, 20 on some questions that Commissioner Nicholson had. We have 21 three levels of -- of coverage that our employees can select 22 from presently, do we not? 23 MS. NEMEC: Correct. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: 1-2-3, A-B-C, whatever. 25 MS. NEMEC: A-B-C. 8-19-03 wk 73 1 JUDGE TINLEY: The -- the first one is the 2 lowest deductible, and then the second one is a little bit 3 higher deductible, and then the third one is a still higher 4 deductible. 5 MS. NEMEC: Right. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Am I correct in that? 7 MS. NEMEC: That's correct. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: And the allowance that is made 9 to an employee is based upon the cost of coverage for the 10 lowest deductible, and that amount is how much per employee 11 per month? 12 MS. NEMEC: Oh, I don't have that figure with 13 me. I want to say it's 400-something. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: The figure that sticks in my 15 mind is $475 plus change. 16 MS. NEMEC: Could be. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Does that sound about right? 18 (Ms. Nemec nodded.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Then the -- the employee is 20 allowed, if he or she selects a -- a lesser -- a lesser 21 coverage; i.e., a higher deductible under Plan B or C, the 22 cost for that coverage is therefore less, and is not the 23 employee allowed to use that difference to apply on spouse 24 or dependent coverage? 25 MS. NEMEC: They can either apply that on 8-19-03 wk 74 1 spouse or dependent coverage, or they can take out 2 additional insurance that is offered through our AFLAC 3 program. So -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 5 MS. NEMEC: However they want to use that. 6 But they are allowed to use the difference for other 7 insurance coverages. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: So, if they select the lowest 9 deductible, there's no money available, at least from a 10 county participation standpoint, for the benefit of spouses 11 or dependents, but if they select one of the other two 12 deductible programs, why, the amount is -- there is some 13 amount available -- 14 MS. NEMEC: That's correct. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: -- of county participation for 16 that, because of the difference? 17 MS. NEMEC: Correct. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. How did we arrive at 19 the figure that we are given for this coming year for health 20 insurance costs per employee? 21 MS. NEMEC: I think Tommy got that figure. 22 Did you provide them with that insurance figure? 23 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 24 (Discussion off the record.) 25 MS. NEMEC: If -- if it came from my office, 8-19-03 wk 75 1 then we -- then the figure that we gave was just what it's 2 costing the County now. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, that's 5,484 per 4 employee, isn't it? 5 MS. NEMEC: Yes, I believe so. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I believe that's what's 7 allocated. I calculate a monthly cost of 457. 8 MS. NEMEC: Okay. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Appears not to be adequate, if 10 my recollection of the numbers are correct. It's about $20 11 a month short. 12 MS. NEMEC: I think that would be right, the 13 457, 458. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 15 MS. NEMEC: So, then there is -- then, in 16 that figure, if that's the figure everyone is using, then 17 there isn't an estimated increase for this year's rates. 18 That is the -- that is the amount that we are currently 19 paying. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: So we may -- we may have a 21 real surprise awaiting us? 22 MS. NEMEC: Mm-hmm. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I question that. 24 Just, for example, looking at your budget, Ms. Nemec, it 25 went up from $9,048 this year to $10,968 next year, so there 8-19-03 wk 76 1 has to be some sort of a forecast of increased costs in 2 there. 3 MS. NEMEC: Well, the reason is because last 4 year, we did not have the figure -- the correct premium 5 figure. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We underestimated 7 last year? 8 MS. NEMEC: Right. Right. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's right. 10 That's been explained to me before. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I don't like the fact 12 that we may have a good surprise -- not a good surprise, but 13 a big surprise awaiting us. 14 MS. NEMEC: Usually we can count on at least 15 25 percent increase, if not more. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Did it not go from -- my 17 recollection was from just under $400, about $398 and 18 change, to about $475 and change? I -- please check those 19 figures for me. 20 MS. NEMEC: I will. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Would you? Because if -- if 22 we don't even have enough plugged into this coming year's 23 budget to handle what we're actually allocating per employee 24 for this year's budget, that really causes me some concern. 25 MS. NEMEC: I'll be prepared to give you 8-19-03 wk 77 1 those figures tomorrow during the general discussion. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Per month -- 4 currently, per month for an employee is? 5 MS. NEMEC: I believe it's 458. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 458? It would 7 appear, if I understood the Commissioner correctly, taking 8 the group insurance number from Ms. Nemec's full-time 9 employees, that we're adding coverage in right now using the 10 475 -- or 458, I mean. 11 MS. NEMEC: What is 458 times 12? That -- 12 MR. TOMLINSON: 5,484. 13 MS. NEMEC: 5,484? 14 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Say it again. 16 MS. NEMEC: 5,484 times two -- plus two. 17 MR. TOMLINSON: Times two, yeah. 18 MS. NEMEC: And then add that twice, and that 19 should come out to the 10,968, I believe. That's what it 20 is, then. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there a reason that, 23 if employees opted for a higher deductible under the option, 24 you know, to apply for another level of the policy or get 25 more insurance, why they can't get -- what was the reason we 8-19-03 wk 78 1 didn't allow them to get a -- basically, an increase in pay 2 using that increased deductible, increase in take-home pay? 3 MS. NEMEC: Well, that would throw off the 4 whole position schedule, for one. And then they -- I'm -- I 5 mean, that's just taxed income. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. I mean, but we 7 could do that. I mean, if we allowed employees to pick, for 8 their own personal coverage, the amount that they wanted to 9 have a higher deductible for employees, they could increase 10 their pay? 11 MS. NEMEC: I would think so. Or if they 12 didn't want to enroll on our insurance at all, and they 13 wanted the $400-something per month added to their pay, I 14 guess they could do that. I think that would be strictly a 15 Court decision there. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you have any sense of what 17 the employee reception would be if that option were given to 18 them? 19 MS. NEMEC: They'd probably all go for it. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I look at it as -- I 21 mean, not as much increased pay as to -- I think if people 22 are paying more of their own -- or paying part of their own 23 medical coverage, office visits, some it out of their own 24 pocket, they will spend less. 25 MS. NEMEC: I think that question came up 8-19-03 wk 79 1 before, and our insurance representative talked the Court 2 out of it, because then your experience is going to be based 3 on fewer employees. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Higher-risk 5 employees will stay, but not low-risk? 6 MR. TOMLINSON: Exactly. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not saying we ought 8 to let employees opt out of the program, but I'm saying if 9 you go with a -- you know, give the employees an opportunity 10 to have a higher deductible -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Which they have. They have 12 that option now. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But they can't get that 14 money back. They can't get cash back. They end up with 15 additional insurance coverage, or not -- 16 MS. NEMEC: They can put that difference into 17 a -- a reimbursement account, and any -- their 20 percent or 18 their deductible during the year, then they're able to use 19 that money to pay for -- for that or for their 20 prescriptions. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think what's 22 becoming clear to me -- two things. One, this is one of the 23 biggest costs we deal with, and two, we don't know enough 24 about it. We need -- we need some help. We need somebody 25 to tell us, these are your options; here's where I see your 8-19-03 wk 80 1 holes are in your program. We need some -- we need more 2 advice than we've got sitting right here at this table. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would think we need 4 advice. We also need to look at some options, including 5 preferred provider-type options. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think I agree with 7 Dave. And, you know, look at all the options. I think this 8 is a huge part of our budget, and we -- we've had very poor 9 control over it in recent years. Not -- just due mainly 10 because of the occurrences we've had, which we've just had 11 some big-ticket items that have come through our insurance. 12 And I think we really need to take a hard look at that, 13 because it has a huge impact on our budget and what we can 14 do in other areas of our budget, because this is one that we 15 need to obviously stay with. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: You're effectively looking at 17 close to one and a half million dollars that's expended on 18 this one item. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mm-hmm. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: And it bears paying a lot of 21 attention to. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can talk about this a 23 little bit more during the discussion on it. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions for 8-19-03 wk 81 1 Ms. Nemec? Thank you. 2 MS. NEMEC: And I'll have those position 3 schedules tomorrow for you also. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: And -- and the various elected 5 officials and department heads are turning those in to you 6 now so that you can be working on the ones that have already 7 been presented? 8 MS. NEMEC: I haven't received anything from 9 anyone. I'm just going by what I have now. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: I'll keep encouraging. 11 MS. NEMEC: Thank you. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you very much, 13 Ms. Nemec. 14 MS. NEMEC: Thank you. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We have -- the next 16 item on the agenda is Constables, Precincts 1 through 4. 17 Those budgets can be found on Pages 45 through 48. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, before you get 19 started, may I say something? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Certainly. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I wanted to address 22 the constables and alert them to something that we're doing. 23 Monday is Commissioners Court meeting, and I have put -- as 24 an agenda item, I've put on there to ask each constable to 25 come in and -- that we can review the -- the 270-day law 8-19-03 wk 82 1 that we're all -- that we all live under; that you're 2 required to get so many school hours and tests, and the law 3 says you shall provide the Commissioners Court with your 4 permanent peace officer card or what -- certificate or 5 whatever it might be. And I know you guys are not up for 6 another month or so, but it's -- it's just a reminder. We 7 want to remind you of it to make sure you're getting it 8 going, and I want to do it in an official way on Monday. 9 Just heads up, okay? Thank you. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Constable Pickens? 11 MR. PICKENS: Good afternoon, Judge. Good 12 afternoon, Commissioners Court. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: What items are we looking at 14 in your budget that -- that you'd like to discuss with us? 15 MR. PICKENS: With the Court's permission, 16 I'd like to ask that we skip over the line items at this 17 time and discuss the Capital Outlay, and then we'll come 18 back to the line items for further discussion, if approval 19 with the Court. I'd like to ask the Court to discuss, 20 consider, and possibly agree on purchasing or leasing a 21 marked patrol unit for the constable's office. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A what? 23 MR. PICKENS: Marked patrol unit. A police 24 car. And I have several reasons for this request, if it 25 please the Court to listen to them. As constable for 8-19-03 wk 83 1 Precinct 1, I serve civil and criminal papers along with 2 local and out-of-county warrants for the J.P. -- for the 3 precinct and for the county. There's a major liability 4 factor involved on my personal part when conducting the 5 duties of the County and for the County while in a private 6 vehicle. With a marked patrol unit there, the liability 7 factor is a low minimum. The safety factor involved for 8 having a marked patrol unit is for my safety, as well as for 9 the County. God forbid, if I were to get hurt or injured or 10 killed in the line of duty, who's responsible then? Who is 11 liable? 12 By having a marked patrol unit, the need for 13 health and safety is for myself and for the County, due to 14 the fact that we have to arrest people and transport them to 15 the county jail. I do not feel comfortable, and therefore 16 will not transport a prisoner in my personal vehicle due to 17 the fact that the prisoner would have total access to my 18 duty weapon or to my duty shotgun, along with the fact that 19 the prisoner could and would try to kick at me, whereas with 20 a marked patrol unit, the prisoner could be secured safely 21 for his safety in the back seat with a screened cage 22 dividing between the two of us. 23 By having a marked patrol unit, it would make 24 us more visible to the public, whereas it would also serve 25 as a deterrent to crime. With a marked patrol unit, there 8-19-03 wk 84 1 would at least be three to four more patrol units on the 2 road, additional peace officers that are already being paid 3 to do the job. By having a marked patrol unit, we would not 4 have to rely on other agencies and not tie them up to 5 transport our prisoners to the county jail, whereas we could 6 do that ourselves. By having a marked patrol unit would 7 allow us to work traffic, write citations in school zones, 8 county roads, make DWI arrests, assist other units in a safe 9 manner: Police Department, Sheriff's Office, D.P.S., game 10 wardens. By having a marked patrol unit -- there is a need, 11 because of -- voters want us to have them, 'cause they would 12 make them feel more secure by seeing additional units 13 patrolling the subdivisions, county roads, along with the 14 city streets. 15 By having a marked patrol unit, we can and 16 will help serve the outstanding warrants at the J.P. levels, 17 the County Court at Law warrants, along with the city 18 warrants, which we can request a warrant fee for serving the 19 warrants, which would be revenue for the County General 20 Fund. By having a marked patrol unit, we can get on a gas 21 plan which is offered to the County at a lot cheaper rate. 22 And, as of this current date, I have collected approximately 23 $4,249 in warrants and fines for the county by using my 24 private vehicle and making telephone calls out of my office. 25 And, as constable of Precinct 1, I'm not asking for anything 8-19-03 wk 85 1 that's unreasonable, because the surrounding counties all 2 around us are well equipped with marked patrol units for 3 their constables. That's my reasons for that request. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How much are they? 5 MR. PICKENS: I've gotten some bids. There's 6 one for each one, then I've labeled mine. The one that I 7 contacted, which is out of Dallas, it's called Texoma Ford, 8 and I talked to the gentleman that's in charge, Donnie 9 Norman, and he -- at this time, he has 2003 models still 10 sitting on the lot. That total turnkey price would be a 11 little over $22,000, with all the equipment listed on here, 12 whereas if we were to buy 2004's, we're probably looking at 13 $2,000 more. Be a savings of $2,000 if we could go with the 14 2003's. They're still sitting on the lot, never been used. 15 And also, would cost -- Constable Ayala wants to give you 16 some bids as well. 17 MR. AYALA: That's the -- the company where 18 the Sheriff gets his cars. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Philpott? 20 MR. AYALA: Beg pardon? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: The Philpott estimates, you're 22 speaking of? 23 MR. AYALA: Yes. They're quite a bit higher. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there a difference in 25 equipment? 8-19-03 wk 86 1 MR. AYALA: I don't think so. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, okay. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Did anybody check out 4 the Houston/Galveston area COG Purchasing Department? 5 Purchasing -- 6 MR. AYALA: No, sir. We did talk to D.P.S. 7 on purchasing used vehicles that they turn loose. They -- 8 they have an inventory that comes and goes. The average 9 price of their used vehicles is about -- around $7,500. 10 They're completely stripped of all the equipment, and around 11 80,000 miles and up; you know, they're pretty used up. But 12 we did not check with Houston. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the 14 Houston/Galveston area COG. They have a purchasing -- big 15 purchasing deal down there. 16 MR. AYALA: More than happy to do that. 17 MR. PICKENS: As we speak, we also have -- 18 Jennings Anderson Ford is faxing over some bids to us here 19 locally on some. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: New vehicles? 21 MR. PICKENS: Yes, sir. Should be getting 22 here -- if they're not already, they should be here shortly. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, the way I see it 24 is, you know, we had been talking a couple years about, you 25 know, the purchase of these new Sheriff's cars, and maybe 8-19-03 wk 87 1 somehow him drop off some of the excess to the constables. 2 We actually had that agreement. But we -- and we went over 3 that last Friday with the Sheriff, and there's still a 4 little bit of blood here on the floor from all that, and 5 that program is not going to work. 6 MR. PICKENS: Yes, sir. 7 MR. AYALA: Right. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's not going to 9 work. And just preliminarily looking at all the numbers 10 that we have in this budget and the amount of money that 11 we're going have come in, I'd personally don't see how we're 12 going to afford brand-new cars. But I'm not saying no at 13 this moment. I just haven't -- we haven't looked -- haven't 14 tallied everything up yet. 15 MR. PICKENS: I understand. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But it seems to me 17 that there -- there are some -- you know, we had talked 18 about D.P.S. cars, and somebody mentioned two or three other 19 avenues of getting cars that are used that are not so 20 expensive, that, you know, would be easier on us, and those 21 kinds of -- I just wanted to let you -- my opinion is that 22 you guys need to go out there and get those numbers. That's 23 not -- I don't -- I don't see the five of us loading up in a 24 Suburban and going, finding you a car. You need to come up 25 with those numbers and bring them back to us, if there is 8-19-03 wk 88 1 such a thing. I don't think that there's going to be enough 2 money to buy new cars for everybody. That's about it. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I tend to agree with 4 Commissioner 1. I mean, I'm in favor, and said so before, 5 of getting cars for the constables. With this year's 6 budget, it was even bad before we just heard the health 7 insurance information that y'all just heard. I think, you 8 know, what I see -- and if we can afford this, is to go with 9 used vehicles, whether D.P.S. or somewhere else. And then, 10 you know, try to get into some program down the road when we 11 have some ability to basically have some cars. And 80,000 12 is not that much; I mean, many of the Sheriff's cars have 13 150,000 on them. It's not ideal, but I think it gets us at 14 least going down the road towards cars. 15 And I would also -- because this does have a 16 pretty big impact on y'all, specifically, two years ago, we 17 -- "we" being the Commissioners Court -- removed the travel 18 line item from basically all elected officials and put it -- 19 folded it into the salary in the constable position. That's 20 $1,800. And I think that, you know, my feeling is that we 21 need to undo that and list travel as a separate line item, 22 because I think it's being forgotten that we did that 23 already. But I think that that -- if we provide cars, that 24 travel -- that item, in my mind, would come out of y'all's 25 budgets. 8-19-03 wk 89 1 MR. AYALA: That would be fine with me. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just wanted to make it 3 clear that -- I don't want people saying, "Oh, you lowered 4 our salaries." That's not -- you know, we're moving this 5 travel item back out. At least I hope we do that. I don't 6 know; we haven't voted on it. But I, you know, have talked 7 with Constable Garza at length about this, and he knows my 8 feelings. You know, I'm willing to do anything we can to 9 get cars for you. I'm like Commissioner Baldwin; I don't 10 see we have the money in this year's budget to buy new cars. 11 The Sheriff says he does haven't cars to roll out. The last 12 option I see that we can possibly do is used cars. And the 13 D.P.S. is probably the -- I mean, the best option that I've 14 heard so far. Maybe there's some better options; maybe some 15 of the large cities may have roll-out cars sooner, something 16 along that. I would like to get back -- you mentioned that 17 the price is about $7,500 for a stripped vehicle. I think 18 the idea is to -- what equipment y'all would need, if any? 19 We need a total price per car. And I -- you know -- 20 MR. AYALA: Commissioner, on top of that, 21 you're going to have to repaint it, and there's other costs 22 associated with that. $7,500, that's just buying a stripped 23 back-and-white. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. And that's what 25 I'm saying; we need to know what that -- what that -- you 8-19-03 wk 90 1 know, a real number is. I would strongly hope that the 2 constables all decide on one color. I don't know the -- I 3 think they need to be. I don't think we need to have four 4 different colors. 5 MR. PICKENS: No, we had talked about them. 6 We just had that if it was agreed on with the Commissioners 7 Court, that -- and if it was granted, that we would have 8 the -- the cars the same color, same design, and be uniform. 9 Just basically, the fact is, like, right now, if we go out 10 serving papers, we have purchased out of our own pocket 11 coming up with the shirts that just, you know, some people 12 can identify, 'cause, I mean, there's some times we have to 13 go to -- be out there till 9:00, 10 o'clock at night. 14 That's the only time we can find these people. You drive up 15 in a personal driveway in an unmarked unit, I mean, 16 they're -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I understand that. 18 I'm -- you know, I've been convinced -- beaten down over the 19 last four or five years that y'all need cars, so I'm -- I'm 20 there. We just need to figure out a reasonable cost that I 21 can support and the County can afford. 22 MR. PICKENS: I understand. And on that same 23 aspect is, if we were to get the -- the units from D.P.S., 24 you're really not guaranteed what kind of car -- which one 25 you're going to get. I mean, you really have to look at 8-19-03 wk 91 1 them and be up there the day that they're going to auction 2 them off. But the same aspect, you're looking at the 3 equipment that you're going to have to purchase, whether it 4 be light bar -- or not a light bar, the radar unit. There 5 is a Senate bill that's come out now that it's going to be 6 mandatory that all patrol units in the state of Texas are 7 going to have to be equipped with a video camera. If not, 8 then we're going to have to fill out forms every month on 9 the racial profiling if we make traffic stops. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They do that already. 11 MR. PICKENS: I don't. I don't make any 12 traffic stops in my truck. But I'm just saying that that 13 is -- Senate bill is making it mandatory. And that's just 14 -- I saw that coming from years ago. And everything -- and 15 I understand what you're saying, and, you know, if we can't 16 go that route, maybe we can get on a program situation with 17 one of the dealerships. I mean, we were all in agreement on 18 that, that probably you're looking at maybe $15,000 total if 19 we go on a program car situation. 20 MR. AYALA: But that is not a police -- a 21 police car; it's just a regular passenger car. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I mean, I would -- 23 we have basically tomorrow and Friday. I would just 24 encourage y'all to come back with a number; I mean, the bare 25 bones y'all can live with, and see if we can go along with 8-19-03 wk 92 1 it. I mean, there's -- we are in a very tight year, and 2 it's something that I would like to be able to do, but at 3 the same time, there's not a whole lot of money available. 4 And the things we have been able to fund on the Capital 5 Outlay so far this year are coming out of designated funds; 6 it's not coming out of the General Fund. They're funds that 7 are built up for a certain purpose, such as record 8 management, and we can spend money -- you know, there's 9 nothing else we can use that money for. But this has to 10 come out of the General Fund, and that's a very tight fund 11 this year. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Constable, you indicated 13 that -- something about the D.P.S. auction. Is that how 14 they actually dispose of those vehicles? At an open 15 auction? Where governmental units can actually submit bids 16 right there on the spot? 17 MR. AYALA: No, sir, they price them. They 18 -- they take a unit off the street, strip it, and D.P.S. 19 puts a price on it. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. They put -- they fill 21 out a schedule and -- 22 MR. AYALA: Right. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: -- they'll identify the unit 24 and put a specific price on it based upon condition, miles, 25 et cetera? 8-19-03 wk 93 1 MR. AYALA: Exactly. Exactly. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 3 MR. AYALA: These cars -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: You're not in a wide-open 5 auction? 6 MR. AYALA: The cars are relatively new, one 7 or two years old, but they've been on the street 16 hours a 8 day, seven days a week, so they get the miles put on them 9 really quick. And the reason they're getting rid of them is 10 because they're starting to have problems with them. So, to 11 me, that's not an option, to buy a car with high miles that 12 you're going to start having a lot of maintenance problems 13 with. 14 MR. PICKENS: From my past experience where I 15 came from, we did that, and we wound up paying in the long 16 run. The sheriff I used to work for down south -- and you 17 know him, Mr. Baldwin -- he made that decision one time, and 18 that was it. We never went that route again. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, my position on 20 this has been abundantly clear now for some time. I think 21 it's time that we honored the intent of what we said we 22 would do a few years back, and provide automobiles for 23 constables. How we do that, of course, is another question. 24 I think Commissioner Letz touched on the fact that 25 capital -- our capital expenditure budget this year is 8-19-03 wk 94 1 particularly tight, and while I know the Sheriff's 2 Department has asked for four vehicles, they have not yet 3 been funded. So, I think that's some things we need to 4 think about, whether or not they're funded. Whether we buy 5 four, whether we buy more than four, whether we buy four for 6 the Sheriff or whether we buy four for the constables, which 7 brings up another point. I've heard mixed stories about who 8 and how many. I know that my constable and, I understand, 9 you, and I understand -- I believe the constable for 10 Precinct 3 all would like to have vehicles, but I'm not too 11 certain that I know what the constable for Precinct 4 wants. 12 I've heard from the Commissioner, but what is your -- what 13 do you know? Are we talking three vehicles or are we 14 talking four vehicles? Are we talking two? What are we 15 talking about? 16 MR. PICKENS: What I know right now, we're 17 talking three, because I know that constable for Precinct 4 18 has got one. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He's back in the 20 back; he just raised his hand. 21 MR. TERRILL: Precinct 4 constable, we've 22 acquired our vehicles over the time -- we've been in office 23 a lot longer than the other three constables, so over the 24 time, we've acquired it, and already have all the equipment 25 we need right now. 8-19-03 wk 95 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, we're basically 2 talking three; is that correct? 3 MR. PICKENS: Yes, sir, three vehicles. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, we'll have to 5 talk it out, see how we get there. I think the admonition 6 that the Commissioner gave about finding some alternative 7 type vehicles is not a bad admonition, and I think we need 8 to think in terms of crawling before you walk before you 9 run. Right now, you're not even crawling. 10 MR. PICKENS: That's understandable. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Question for Constable 12 Number 4. How did you purchase your vehicle? 13 MR. TERRILL: From my personal funds, sir. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Out of your pocket? 15 MR. TERRILL: When we -- when I became a 16 constable originally, about 13 years ago, the salary was 17 flat out -- you had travel allowance and you -- you used 18 that travel allowance over a period of time on whatever -- 19 to furnish whatever transportation you need. And then, 20 later on, when I became an elected constable and my salary 21 was up there, I went ahead and purchased a -- a car, and 22 that's my travel money. Of course, I know they consolidated 23 all the travel money and everything at one time, into one -- 24 and in one bucket as salary, and we just take it all out of 25 there. That's where mine came from. 8-19-03 wk 96 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. Thank you very 2 much. Now, at the very least, until we get to figure out 3 what to do, what about -- what about getting some decals for 4 your doors that say, "I am a cop"? I mean, that seems like, 5 to me, that was a major part of this; that people don't 6 recognize you as a police officer. If you had a -- I'm just 7 asking a question now. 8 MR. PICKENS: I understand. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Don't look at me like 10 that. 11 MR. PICKENS: I'm not. I'm not. 12 MR. AYALA: There's still a liability issue, 13 because that's our personal vehicle. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, the bottom line 15 is, if we don't buy you brand-new cars, you're not going to 16 play? Is that -- that's what it sounds like to me. 17 MR. AYALA: No. 18 MR. PICKENS: No. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You don't want to get 20 the D.P.S. cars. You don't want to look at any other used 21 cars 'cause they're all broke down. And the Sheriff's not 22 going to give us any, so it sounds like to me the only thing 23 you're going to settle for is brand-new cars. 24 MR. AYALA: I'll drive whatever you give me, 25 Buster. 8-19-03 wk 97 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's better. 2 JUDGE ELLIOTT: I've got a Suburban for sale; 3 carry a lot of people. (Laughter.) 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mount a machine gun on 5 top. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How about -- there is one 7 thing that Constable 4 made me think about. Is it possible 8 for the County to, in lieu of buying the car, pay for a 9 portion of a car? Giving them a car allowance that has to 10 be used for purchase of a car? And let them also, you know, 11 pay for part of it if they want the new -- if they want to 12 get with the new -- County pay half and let the constable 13 pay half out of their -- I don't know if that's even a legal 14 option. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't either, Commissioner. 16 MR. AYALA: I'd like to make one -- one 17 notation. There's a deputy constable in Kerr County that 18 works two days a week, and he's furnished a vehicle, a 19 radio, cell phone. Ed North. He's the Code Enforcement 20 Officer. You know, he works for the County and he's 21 furnished all these -- 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He's furnished a 23 vehicle? 24 MR. AYALA: He's furnished a County pickup. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's news to me. 8-19-03 wk 98 1 That's that old County pickup? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Environmental Health. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. All right. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He's mostly funded 6 through the AACOG, the Environmental Department. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He doesn't serve 8 constable duties. He -- I mean, he has that from his peace 9 officer standpoint, but he's Environmental Health. 10 MR. AYALA: He's a deputy constable. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But his first job is 12 Environmental Health. 13 MR. AYALA: He's part-time, two days a week. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I can't hear this 15 conversation. You need to speak up. 16 MR. PICKENS: Speak up. 17 MR. AYALA: I said that we have a deputy 18 constable in Precinct 2 that works part-time that is 19 furnished a County pickup, cell phone, radio -- I'm not sure 20 what-all -- gas card, to do his job. And I just wanted to 21 make notation of that. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But he's not -- I mean, 23 he carries that -- he's an Environmental Health. All of 24 that comes through a different department. He's not paid as 25 a constable. He has his constable -- or he was appointed 8-19-03 wk 99 1 deputy constable, and if you don't want him appointed as 2 deputy constable under you, we can appoint him somewhere 3 else. He's got the ability to have basically -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He was funded, I 5 think, totally through grants for a number of years, and 6 just in the last two years or so, I think, is when he's come 7 on board as a full -- the grants run out and he came on as a 8 full-time -- not full-time, but a part-time County -- County 9 employee. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think we got those 11 grants for about three years. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Any other items y'all 13 want to talk about in your budgets? 14 MR. PICKENS: Under the Local Government 15 Code, it's regulation for certain use of privately-owned 16 vehicles. This is from the A.G.'s office. A commissioners 17 court of a county may adopt rules prohibiting or regulating 18 the use of a privately-owned motor vehicle for the 19 performance of county business or law enforcement duties by 20 sheriff or constable or deputy sheriff or constable. This 21 section does not authorize commissioners court to adopt 22 rules relating to the private use of a privately-owned motor 23 vehicle. I also have an opinion on that from the A.G.'s 24 office, if the Commissioners Court would like to get a copy 25 and give it to the County Attorney to look it over. 8-19-03 wk 100 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's your point? 3 MR. PICKENS: I'm just saying, as far as on 4 the -- that a government unit is -- in the state is liable 5 for property damage if something were to happen to us while 6 using a private vehicle for county business. I understand 7 what you're saying, Commissioner. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's for me, too. If 9 I'm out doing, you know, what -- looking at a road and I 10 have a wreck in my truck, County's liable for what I do 11 there too. I mean, I think every County employee's liable 12 for their -- when they're performing county business, 13 whether it's -- a J.P. is going out on an inquest or 14 something, or I'm going to check a road, or anybody else. I 15 mean, we're all liable -- or the County's liable for all of 16 us in our personal vehicles performing jobs in Kerr County. 17 MR. PICKENS: I understand. I mean, I'm not 18 saying I'm not going to do my job any more. I'm still going 19 to go beyond the call of duty and do my job. I just think 20 if -- if the funds could be found, if we could purchase 21 three vehicles for all three of us, that we can enhance our 22 duties a lot more and provide a lot more revenue for the 23 County. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we agree. 25 Anything else in the budget? 8-19-03 wk 101 1 MR. PICKENS: Other than my line items. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Which line items do you have a 3 concern about? 4 MR. PICKENS: On the fuel, I'd requested 5 $1,000. I see the recommended for $750. I know that it 6 averages -- my fuel averages about $110 a month, to -- my 7 performance as serving the papers. I'd like to ask -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On this, really, I mean, 9 I think it's almost all of them, or three of them. How do 10 you reconcile the fact that -- you know, and we let it 11 happen, so it's our fault too -- that we have allowed fuel 12 to come back into the budget, when we've -- there's also 13 $1,800 a year travel allowance for fuel and the use of a 14 vehicle? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: One constable, there is no 16 fuel charge. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I know, in 4. But the 18 other three, there are. And I guess it's -- you know, I'm 19 saying we, being the Court, in the past couple of years has 20 gotten back into this, and this is why I want to split 21 travel allowances back out again, because we're paying for 22 fuel, vehicle insurance, vehicle repair. And, at the same 23 time, there's $1,800 in your salary for those purposes. And 24 I'm just -- you know, you think that's right? 25 MR. AYALA: I do. 8-19-03 wk 102 1 MR. PICKENS: I do. 2 MR. AYALA: I put 15,000 miles on my pickup 3 last year. I bought my own tires, my own oil changes. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So did I. 5 MR. AYALA: Did you put 15,000 miles on 6 County business? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, easily. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I didn't. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You don't live out in the 10 sticks. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I ride with somebody 12 else. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where I live, every time 14 I come to Kerrville is 50 miles. 15 (Discussion off the record -- several people speaking at the same time.) 16 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm just really -- I 18 bring it up more as trying to be consistent with all the 19 constables. I firmly believe that constables should be 20 treated the same, and that -- it just seems that we've kind 21 of gone full-circle, and we're doing travel allowances, and 22 we already have a travel allowance in our salaries. The 23 only -- and the Commissioners budget, for the first time 24 this year, we are putting Commissioners out-of-county travel 25 as a separate line item, which is -- I don't know how much 8-19-03 wk 103 1 it's going to be there. It's pretty much for Commissioners 2 to go to AACOG meetings in San Antonio. You know -- Tommy, 3 do you have a comment? 4 MR. TOMLINSON: If I can give you a little 5 history on why we -- why the travel allowance was added to 6 the salary, under our -- our I.R.S. regulations, that is a 7 salary. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mm-hmm. 9 MR. TOMLINSON: And so -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Tommy, I can't hear 11 you. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: I said the travel allowance, 13 under I.R.S. regulations, is a salary, and so that's the 14 reason that it goes to -- because the way we were handling 15 the travel allowance is that we were not requiring any log 16 of -- of mileage. In other words, for a travel allowance 17 not to be a salary, you -- the user has -- has to be able to 18 log the use of his vehicle, and then, as an individual, when 19 he files his tax return, these two match where he doesn't 20 have any -- any revenue. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 22 MR. TOMLINSON: So, his expenses for the use 23 of his vehicle have to equal the amount he receives. So, 24 that -- that's essentially why we did it, just because we -- 25 we had to pay -- we had to do withholding, FICA; everything 8-19-03 wk 104 1 we do with the salary had to be done with the travel. So, 2 it just made it a lot cleaner for the -- for the payroll 3 people to do it as one item, so that's why it's there. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I understand why we did 5 it, and I was one of the big proponents to doing it that 6 way, 'cause, to me, it -- you know, it's income, basically, 7 how you use it. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: But, by the same token, Tommy, 9 the individual can also claim a deduction on his or her 10 personal tax return for -- for business mileage, travel in 11 that employee's private vehicle. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: That's correct. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: By keeping a log of those same 14 miles and filling out a -- I don't know, Form 4528 or 15 whatever it is, and attaching it to their return and 16 claiming that as a deduction. 17 MR. TOMLINSON: That's correct. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: So, it's just -- 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Six of one, half a 20 dozen of the other. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Exactly. So, they're not 22 prohibited from doing that; they can still claim that 23 mileage. 24 MR. TOMLINSON: Right. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They claim it, and then 8-19-03 wk 105 1 us pay for it too. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Going full-circle, I 3 think what Commissioner Letz said is that two years ago, we 4 rolled that $1,200 into salary because it was considered by 5 the I.R.S. as compensation, and since then, the items that 6 that $1,200 was intended to pay for have crept back into the 7 budgets and expenses. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I think that point is 9 well-made, with, I believe, the exception of Constable 4. I 10 don't believe there's any of them in Constable 4, is there? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. But on that area of 12 Constable 4, there's a special arrangement in that Constable 13 4 chooses to have a deputy, and he pays for that deputy's 14 salary. I mean, it's a choice. As I understand it -- 15 Constable 4's back there hiding -- that, you know, he has 16 decided not to take some of his so he could have the deputy. 17 I mean, I don't know if it was while you were constable or a 18 predecessor, but, you know, it's kind of an understanding 19 that we have for him to be able to fund the deputy, we don't 20 fund anything else. So -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, now -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or not much. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: The current constable's salary 24 is deducted from constable -- the deputy constable's salary 25 is deducted from Constable 4's salary under the current 8-19-03 wk 106 1 arrangement. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: So I'm not sure that's 4 entirely correct. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I stand corrected. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: But you've got -- you've got 7 some of the things that should have been included in the 8 $1,800 travel allowance that are now in various budgets, 9 whether it be vehicle repairs and maintenance, whether it be 10 insurance, whether it be fuel, whether it be equipment 11 repair. All of those things, I think the point you're 12 making, were a part of that $1,800. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mm-hmm. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, the bottom line 15 is, all four constables' budgets on the bottom are within 16 $600 of each other, top to bottom. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: At the appropriate 18 time, I want to talk some more about Precinct 4 and having a 19 constable and a deputy constable. Is this the right time to 20 do that? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sure, I think so. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You ought to wait till 23 Number 4 gets up here. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I mean, I would think. 8-19-03 wk 107 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Does Number 4 want to get up 2 here? 3 MR. TERRILL: At any time, sir. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are we through with 5 Number 1? Are we through with Number 1? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I kind of looked at them 7 all as -- I mean, their bottom lines are pretty much the 8 same, kind of. 9 JUDGE RAGSDALE: While you're making a 10 transition between these two speakers, one thing that you 11 might think about is that, in allowing for compensation in 12 the -- in the vehicle line, is that when you put it into 13 salary, then you kind of lose the ability to -- for 14 instance, when we started getting $1,200 a year, gasoline 15 prices were at a dollar and a quarter. Now gasoline prices 16 are $1.50, and there's been no adjustment to -- to do this, 17 so you're cutting into -- basically, we're paying back the 18 County for the privilege of using our vehicle in our work. 19 And that may not be a fair compensation for what they're 20 providing. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's a good point. 22 JUDGE RAGSDALE: And perhaps the thing could 23 -- some of the -- the bite out of using their personal 24 vehicle in their work for an increased production is -- is 25 to compensate them a little bit more for their vehicle. 8-19-03 wk 108 1 But, certainly, to keep in mind that the cost of operating, 2 the cost of acquiring the vehicles, the cost of maintaining 3 them, and the -- and the cost of feeding them have all gone 4 up a lot since y'all have visited this issue the last time. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's true. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not to mention the 7 cost of insuring the vehicle, because if he claims it is a 8 work vehicle, his insurance rates are likely to be higher. 9 JUDGE RAGSDALE: Well, you get a rider for 10 your policy that might would include that. But, still, 11 they're not necessarily -- I don't know that they're being 12 compensated correctly. I don't know if they -- I think they 13 feel like they are not. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That argument goes, I 15 mean, to all -- everyone that used to have a travel 16 allowance line item, pretty much every elected official. 17 JUDGE RAGSDALE: Yeah. I mean, it hasn't 18 been touched in -- in, I know of -- I don't think it's been 19 touched in 10 years, and the prices have gone up a lot. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's a good point. I 21 just think it's a -- I brought it up because I think this 22 is -- it's something we need to address and figure out 23 what's the best way to do it county-wide, and I just brought 24 it up -- you know, brought it up at our first discussion and 25 thought this was a good time with the constables here as 8-19-03 wk 109 1 well, because they certainly are affected. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Any more questions for 3 constable, Precinct 1? 4 MR. PICKENS: One other thing, Judge. You 5 asked last -- not the past Commissioners Court, but the one 6 before that, I had come in and asked for a transfer of funds 7 for a portable radio. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Radio. 9 MR. PICKENS: And it was advised to me to 10 come back during the workshop and we could discuss that. At 11 this time, I would like to ask the Court to consider still 12 transferring $578 from the salary line item to Miscellaneous 13 so could I purchase this radio. Again, for the liability 14 factor, my safety factor when executing the duties as a 15 constable. Right now I have a portable on, but it's on loan 16 from the 9-1-1 Director. Unfortunately, it was involved in 17 a big fight here about two weeks ago. Trying to call out, I 18 found out later from the Sheriff that Channel 2 in this 19 radio, I can receive them, but they can't hear me. So -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: That was the wrong time to 21 find that out, wasn't it? 22 MR. PICKENS: Yes, sir, big-time. It was, 23 like, 30 against 4. And I -- when the Sheriff got back into 24 his office, I talked to him about it and showed him the 25 radio. And I can transmit on the old channel, but there's 8-19-03 wk 110 1 still not that guarantee that they can hear me as well. And 2 the radio I'm requesting, the portable, is the same type of 3 portable that his officers carry while on the street. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What -- can you go over 5 that change that you wanted again? 6 MR. PICKENS: From Salary line item that was 7 not used, that was vacant during the election time, and 8 transfer it over to Miscellaneous. And I gave y'all a copy 9 of that bid from Advantage. This radio here, I would have 10 to take it down to San Antone. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How much is that? 12 MR. PICKENS: $578. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Constable Pickens, 14 is this a need that's common among all four of the 15 constables? Are we going to have four requests for this 16 radio? 17 MR. GARZA: I'm going to ask for a radio, a 18 portable. 19 MR. PICKENS: Angel Garza also has one on 20 loan from 9-1-1, because his radio is outdated. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you need one? 22 MR. AYALA: The Mounted Peace Officers bought 23 me one. They felt sorry for me, bought me one, so I'm good 24 on a portable. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: And I think Constable 4's got 8-19-03 wk 111 1 his radio, Don't you? 2 MR. TERRILL: Yes, sir. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where'd you get yours? 4 Where'd you get yours? 5 MR. TERRILL: I purchased it, sir. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Out of his pocket. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Out of his pocket. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, you know, 9 that -- okay. 10 MR. PICKENS: But I'm doing what y'all had 11 asked, come back and discuss it at the workshop. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, we have two 13 options. We can put it in the budget and you can get it in 14 October, or we can -- it has to -- it has to be an agenda 15 item in Commissioners Court meeting -- Commissioners Court 16 meeting. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: I think he already tried 18 the -- 19 MR. PICKENS: I already tried it. Y'all told 20 me to come back -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, we can put it in 22 the budget. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't have a problem 24 putting it in, the two that need it. I think it's 25 something -- 8-19-03 wk 112 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what I would 2 prefer. Just budget the thing and make it clear. 3 MR. PICKENS: That's fine. But -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But you're not going 5 to get it until October. 6 MR. PICKENS: I understand. But I appreciate 7 it, and thank you. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, we add $600 to both 9 Constable 1 and Constable 3 under Miscellaneous? 10 MR. GARZA: Yes, sir. 11 MR. PICKENS: That's agreed. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Is that all we got -- 13 MR. PICKENS: That's all I have. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: -- on 1? Okay. Precinct 2 15 constable. 16 MR. AYALA: I guess we're done talking about 17 the cars, so I'll just go over the line items. I made a 18 mistake when I requested just $37 for stamps, for postage. 19 I'd like to double or triple that. I mean, because the last 20 six or seven months, I've had real good success in sending 21 out demand letters on uncollected traffic fines and 22 warrants, and I need that increased just for that purpose. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Constable 1 has $100. 24 MR. AYALA: That would probably work. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 8-19-03 wk 113 1 MR. AYALA: Also, fuel and oil, I requested 2 $1,000 and it was reduced to $750, and I'd like to stick 3 with $1,000. Gasoline has gone up. I think it's going to 4 continue to go up, and that's why I requested almost double 5 what I asked for last year. Line Item 331, Fuel and Oil. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: All three constables 8 are asking for the same amount of money? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. And I put them, all 10 three, in at $750. And the reason I did, when you 11 annualize -- when you annualize your expenditures of -- of 12 1, 2, and 3, you'll find that they're within that tolerance. 13 Now, it was indicated to me by one constable -- I believe it 14 may have been Constable Ayala -- that sometimes annualizing 15 with his, I believe -- 16 MR. AYALA: I just take it -- 17 JUDGE TINLEY: -- fuel, and on his cell 18 phone, as I recall, he kind of lumps at the end and that's 19 where the big hit occurs. So, it may not be totally fair to 20 do a straight annualization. But, is -- is my recollection 21 essentially correct, constable? 22 MR. AYALA: I take it, like, $40, $50 a month 23 out of my fuel line item every month, and then my -- my 24 phone, I wait till the end of the year, because I -- it just 25 depends on how much long distance I use. Then I'll bring in 8-19-03 wk 114 1 six or seven months of cell phone invoices and get 2 reimbursed for partial use of my cell phone. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So, it's -- it's a 4 phone that primarily runs -- 5 MR. AYALA: Right. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay. Any other items, 7 Constable Ayala? 8 MR. AYALA: I think that's it. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On -- I'm going back and 10 forth between the three, so I apologize. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Both 1 and 2 are asking 13 for -- well, they asked for $700 for phone, and you're 14 budgeted $600. Constable 3 asked for $125 and -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: We approved at that. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. And 4 asked for 17 $400. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What line item are 19 you on, Commissioner? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: 420. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 420? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 420 across the board. I 23 just think it's -- to me, phone is something that should be 24 pretty standard. I don't know how the Court wants to -- 25 MR. AYALA: There was discussion Friday on 8-19-03 wk 115 1 putting out a bid for -- I'm not sure whether it's the 2 Sheriff's Office or the County in general, but if we do 3 that, I'd like for y'all to include the constables in that 4 bid process, and add three or four phones in that process. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 'Cause, I mean, based on 6 my cell phone bills, I mean, it doesn't appear y'all -- 7 well, any of y'all are using it too much, but I don't see 8 how Constable 3 -- he's not up right now. His is -- that's 9 a very small part of whatever he's spending if he has a cell 10 phone, I'm sure. It just seems that we ought to try to 11 equalize them as much as we can, some of these items, unless 12 there's a certain need that certain individuals have beyond 13 those. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Similarly, another 15 inequity, perhaps, is -- if that's the right term -- is some 16 have vehicle insurance and equipment -- vehicle repair or 17 vehicle equipment, and some don't. 18 MR. GARZA: I think I addressed that 19 question, Commissioner, when I took office. We were given 20 so much money to put within our line items, and you pick and 21 choose where you wanted to put it. That's where I decided 22 to put that money, 'cause I had that question. That's the 23 way it's been done for me. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Kind of like a 25 Chinese menu; two from Column A -- 8-19-03 wk 116 1 MR. GARZA: I guess if you want to call it 2 that way. Some other constables might have had it in some 3 other training mode or something, but that's where I chose 4 to put my money. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Is that your 6 recollection? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, that's accurate. 8 MR. GARZA: Exactly. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay, thanks. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess, if you -- just a 11 general question. Do all the constables -- I mean, do you 12 think -- I mean, from my standpoint, it's easier if they're 13 similar or the same for items. If there's a reason that 14 doesn't make sense, I'll certainly listen to that, but my 15 preference would be really to try to let y'all come up with 16 -- the budgets aren't that far different; it's just that, 17 you know, one wants to pay on telephone, one wants to be on 18 insurance. And if we can figure out a standard -- if we 19 can, to me, it would be helpful. I don't know if it's 20 feasible or not. 21 MR. AYALA: Well, I think last year's budget, 22 you know, to run our office was around $1,200, you know, for 23 a year. And that goes anywhere from fuel and oil to stamps 24 to office supplies to whatever, and people just want to put 25 that in different areas to use it the best as they can. 8-19-03 wk 117 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I am kind of curious 3 as to the difference in telephone usage between what you're 4 anticipating, constable, and what constable, Precinct 3 5 anticipates. 6 MR. AYALA: He doesn't have a cell phone. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He doesn't? 8 MR. GARZA: I do, but it's my personal phone, 9 and I have been using, like, the -- some of this money that 10 the -- this $1,800 we talked about that's in our -- you 11 know, in our salary, I basically buy that and use it out of 12 there. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions for 15 constable, Precinct 2? Thank you, Constable Ayala. 16 Constable, Precinct 3. 17 MR. GARZA: Good afternoon, gentlemen. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: We've already covered the 19 radio issue, haven't we? 20 MR. GARZA: I graciously thank all the 21 Commissioners and you, Judge. I appreciate that. I -- I 22 was basically going to say that that was my main item that I 23 wanted to speak about. In the four years I've been in 24 office, I have never asked for any capital outlay, and that 25 was the one item I think I really need for safety factor. 8-19-03 wk 118 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 2 MR. GARZA: Only other thing I can see, I'd 3 like to see if I could have maybe another $50 on office 4 supplies. When I took office, I basically used up most of 5 the supplies from the previous constable, and so I've kind 6 of been going here and there, and this is the first year I'm 7 out of envelopes, paper, and what-have-you. And I just 8 feel, if it's possible, I could just get a little bit more 9 in supplies -- office supplies. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Like, go to $100? 11 MR. GARZA: I'd appreciate it if we could, 12 you know. Because what I'll do, then, if I don't use it up, 13 then what I would do is I'm going to maybe transfer it over 14 into postage, and that way I can, you know, do what 15 Constable Ayala does and Constable Pickens, send out 16 letters -- demand letters. Usually I get a lot of good 17 return on people bringing back court fines. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 19 MR. GARZA: And that was mainly my deal, is 20 I -- I've always worked with what the Court gives me. I'm 21 very grateful for what the Court has done for me, and I'm in 22 agreement with Commissioner Letz as far as maybe the bottom 23 line on our line items. If we could kind of go as far as, 24 if our salary's $29,000, you have, say, $1,500 to operate 25 your budget. Everybody gets -- or everybody have the same 8-19-03 wk 119 1 amount of money, you know, to move around in your line 2 items. Or that's a possibility. Or -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I see it a 4 little bit differently. You wanted to put some extra money 5 in your office supplies. 6 MR. GARZA: Yes, sir. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So later on you can 8 transfer it over -- the excess over to the postage. 9 MR. GARZA: Possibly. Well, I'm just 10 saying -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand. Wait. 12 Wait a minute. I'm not trying -- I'm not chunking rocks. 13 Yet. But your postage is $37. 14 MR. GARZA: One roll of stamps. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Everybody else is 16 $100. Why plan on doing budget transfers? Why don't we 17 change his to $100 also? I don't have the change, I'm 18 sorry. Did I -- 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I thought we -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We did Number 2's. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Changed 2. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We did 2. I just 23 marked it on 3 thinking he was going to ask the same thing. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: In my opinion, we need 25 to add some in his postage now so he doesn't have to plan on 8-19-03 wk 120 1 making budget amendments. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: And that will give him the 4 additional $50 that he wants anyway. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There you go. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He's got to buy 7 envelopes to put the stamps on, so we might talk about that 8 too. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, postage is $100, and 10 what's office supplies? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: $100 is what I've 12 written down. 13 MR. GARZA: Or back to $50 would make it. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Not arguing about that. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Fine. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, his office 17 supplies is -- has been zero. 18 MR. GARZA: Yes, sir. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ever since he got 20 here. 21 MR. GARZA: Exactly. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that all you got for us 24 today, Constable 3? 25 MR. GARZA: Basically, it -- you know, like I 8-19-03 wk 121 1 said, just do a bit -- give a little bit more attention on 2 the $1,800. I -- like I said, I've been using that to buy 3 equipment for myself for the performance of my duties, like 4 uniforms or shirts and things like that, so I'll be 5 distinct, as far as when I go to somebody's house or 6 something. First thing, they look at you as you get out of 7 your car, "Well, who is that? Why is he wearing a gun?" 8 That kind of thing. So I have been trying to wear a 9 distinctive uniform. That's how I get it -- the money out 10 of my own budget, which comes out of that travel-type 11 allowance money that we -- you've been talking about. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: You didn't go get yourself 13 into a brouhaha with a radio that can't reach anybody, did 14 you? 15 MR. GARZA: No, sir. No, sir. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That's good. 17 MR. GARZA: No, sir. 18 MR. PICKENS: I didn't ask for that to 19 happen. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: I know you didn't ask for it, 21 constable. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. 23 MR. GARZA: And, again, I just thank the 24 Court for the giving me this opportunity, and thank you for 25 looking into the vehicles for us. I appreciate that, and 8-19-03 wk 122 1 thank you very much for the radio. I really do need that. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you, Angel. 3 MR. GARZA: Thank you, sir. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: One other thing here. 5 Precinct 2, fuel and oil has got the $750, and Precinct 3 6 says gasoline. I'm assuming fuel and gasoline are the same. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He can't put any on oil. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: $750. And then he has 9 a line 454 -- 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- that nobody else 12 has. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, there's an equipment 14 repair item on 2. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 456, same. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: And there's a 454, vehicle 17 repair/maintenance. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On 1. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: On 1. But then you also have 20 an insurance line on 3. So, it -- I think Commissioner Letz 21 thought that we need to just try and reach some consensus on 22 some sort of uniform guidelines to utilize here would be 23 helpful, but right now, we are where we are and we need to 24 go forward. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd like -- go ahead. 8-19-03 wk 123 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just think that that 2 would be -- I agree 100 percent, and I think that would be a 3 good exercise to go through on Friday, clean these things 4 up. You know, as an example, this equipment repair. Back 5 in other people's budgets, that equipment repair would be 6 for maybe not a computer, but a printer, you know, that kind 7 of equipment, not a cop car. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- you know, I 9 like Constable 3's idea of, you know, giving a set amount, 10 letting them move it around some, but I think we need to set 11 the categories they can move it around within. You know, 12 give them a set $1,500 a year, whatever we decide, and let 13 them have the, you know, flexibility to move it where they 14 want within their -- based on their needs -- individual 15 needs. But, anyway -- 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Constable 4. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Before Constable 18 Terrill explains his budget, I'd like to say a couple 19 things. Some of the questions I've asked the constables, it 20 may have appeared that I was being critical of the 21 constables' costs or the compensation. I'm not. I'm 22 sympathetic that you -- all four of you are cost-effective. 23 I believe you need vehicles. I don't -- I'm not critical at 24 all of the cost of our constables' function. Now, before 25 constable Terrill gets into it, I want to resurrect an old 8-19-03 wk 124 1 conversation that I think some of you have had. I know 2 Commissioner Baldwin has. Precinct 4 is largely a rural 3 precinct. Little bit of Kerrville in it, but not much. And 4 it's, I think, about 600 square miles, somewhere between 55 5 and 60 percent of the total county area. So, when you're a 6 constable out there, it's a -- it's a long ways to work. 7 It's a long ways from Coronado area to Highway 41 or 8 Mountain Home or -- or Y.O. Ranch. And at one time we had 9 two constables out there, as you know, and those -- those 10 were consolidated into one constable and a deputy. I don't 11 see Constable Terrill's job is any smaller; in fact, I think 12 it's larger than -- at least as large as the others, even 13 with the fact that he's got a deputy. I know that deputy is 14 at work. He does a lot, supports law enforcement. He's the 15 first guy on the scene very -- very often, because he lives 16 out there on 41. I see both of them all over the county. 17 And what I'm proposing is that we pay the -- the constable 18 the same salary as the others, and pay the deputy constable 19 the $4,800 on top of that. So -- 20 MR. TERRILL: Thank you, Commissioner. Your 21 Honor, Commissioners, I've got -- I pretty much got what we 22 want down here on this, and I put it down in kind of three 23 druthers, and I'd like to have the best druther first. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: For the -- for the Court's 25 clarification on this, the current situation is that the 8-19-03 wk 125 1 deputy constable receives $2,400 a year. That cost is 2 deducted from Constable Terrill's' salary, so the total cost 3 for manpower is -- is the same. Constable Terrill asks 4 that -- that he -- he wanted his deputy to remain on the 5 job, and I think he's absolutely essential out there, and 6 if -- if we paid him five, ten times what he's making, I 7 still think we got a bargain for what he does out there. 8 But Constable Terrill wanted us to increase his salary to 9 $4,800, and give him two options; one, he continue to bear 10 half of it out of his, as it is right now, or his preferred 11 option of, course, is to get that entire amount picked up by 12 the County. And -- and I put it in on the recommended on 13 the conservative side, saddling him with half of that cost, 14 as he's presently doing. But, certainly, if the Court wants 15 to consider picking up that entire $4,800, why, that's the 16 Court's decision. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask a question. 18 How long has Mr. Hall been a constable -- or a deputy 19 constable? 20 MR. TERRILL: Since 1976, sir. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Help me with the math. 22 MR. HALL: 27. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: 27 years. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 27 years. 25 MR. TERRILL: Yes, sir. Prior to that, we 8-19-03 wk 126 1 had some other law enforcement out there; I believe a game 2 warden and such as that, but he's currently listed through 3 TCLEOSE as becoming a certified Texas peace officer in 1976. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I know he's 5 certainly been the law west of Goat Creek. He's known as 6 that. 7 MR. TERRILL: He was honored two years ago 8 for -- for 50 years law enforcement experience. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Actually, you get two 10 for the price of one; his wife is very active as well. 11 MR. TERRILL: Thank you, sir. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: She's the one, 13 actually. 14 MR. TERRILL: I might add that both my deputy 15 and I have furnished all of our own equipment. We both own 16 our own vehicles. He has radio communications and cell 17 phone within his vehicle, all emergency equipment, as do I 18 in mine, and I've got police radios and separate-number cell 19 phones in my private car and the one I use in the constable 20 car. And I have a backup radio in case one breaks down. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If he was to arrest 22 someone out there for one reason or another, would he call 23 you to transport or -- 24 MR. TERRILL: He could call myself or the 25 Sheriff's Department or D.P.S. or the game wardens, 'cause 8-19-03 wk 127 1 he -- 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What does he do, 3 though? I mean -- 4 MR. TERRILL: If he has a game violation out 5 there, that's normally what he would wind up in an arrest 6 type position -- situation, and he'll detain the person 7 until the game warden arrives. And the game warden takes 8 the case over from there. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 10 MR. TERRILL: He's a super, you know, first 11 response person. And I've got a few things that -- to 12 mention about things he's done in this fiscal year, 'cause 13 he's answered 567 calls out there, and that includes 16 14 responses to Air Life and help set up landing pads and 15 direct traffic and all that. He's responded to six major 16 accidents out there, responded to a number of thefts, 17 trespassing calls, fire calls, et cetera, and he's always -- 18 he's seven days a week, 24 hours a day, and knows that 19 country like no one else. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, my choice is 21 choice number 1. And it's one of those things that we just 22 kind of have to pencil in and make sure we have enough money 23 to do. But that would be my vote if I were a voting person 24 right now. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I couldn't find any reason to 8-19-03 wk 128 1 disagree with you, Commissioner. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't have any 3 problem with number one. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's all right. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other items that you have 6 down here, Constable Terrill? 7 MR. TERRILL: I can't think of any. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: You don't have much else 9 there. 10 MR. TERRILL: That's it. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Refresh my memory, 13 constable. Who is your assistant, your deputy? 14 MR. TERRILL: I beg pardon? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What is your deputy's 16 name? 17 MR. TERRILL: T.D. Hall. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. I'd forgotten. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I've had occasion, 20 since I came out to Kerr County in 1982, to call on a law 21 enforcement officer twice, and both times it was T.D. Hall. 22 I called him at home one time; it was 2 a.m. It was a 23 spotlighting -- illegal spotlighting, and I guess he must 24 have been constable then, because he didn't call any more 25 help. He put the handcuffs on them, took them to jail. 8-19-03 wk 129 1 MR. TERRILL: That's T.D. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: As you know, he has a 3 son that recently retired from T.A.B.C. that now works for 4 the Kerr County Sheriff's Department, and his son that's a 5 D.P.S. I guess will be in here soon, maybe. But, good law 6 enforcement family. 7 MR. TERRILL: Absolutely. Halls -- the 8 "Halls of Justice," I believe they call them. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The Halls of Justice. 10 Oh, my gosh. There's headlines -- that's headline talk. 11 MR. TERRILL: I appreciate your -- 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Constable Terrill. 13 MR. TERRILL: Thank you. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Appreciate it. 15 MR. TERRILL: Your Honor and Commissioners, 16 appreciate it. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Probably -- why don't 18 we -- I think the court reporter ought to be getting a 19 little warm by this time. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Warmed up. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, no -- 22 JUDGE RAGSDALE: Judge? If you guys recess, 23 then I won't be able to address the Court. We were supposed 24 to be here at 2:30 for our part in this, and I really have 25 to get. 8-19-03 wk 130 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's recess. 2 JUDGE RAGSDALE: Whatever. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's fine with me. 4 She has to have a rest. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not us. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You can go if you want 7 to, but she heeds to have a rest. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, we're going to take a 9 10-minute recess. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: See you, Bill. 11 (Recess taken from 3 p.m. to 3:15 p.m.) 12 - - - - - - - - - - 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's come back to 14 order, if we could, please. We will resume the workshop 15 agenda -- budget workshop agenda for this date. It's about 16 3:15. We took a 10-, 15-minute recess. The next item up is 17 J.P.'s. J.P. 4 indicated that he's got a time commitment 18 that he's under. 19 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Your Honor, J.P. 1 would 20 yield to the distinguished judge from Precinct 4. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Precinct -- no one on the 22 Court has any objection to hearing Number 4 first? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We might just go in 25 reverse order. 8-19-03 wk 131 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think that would 2 be -- that would be make it comfortable. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Just do a countdown; 4, 3, 2, 4 1. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There you go. 6 JUDGE RAGSDALE: Gentlemen, if you have -- 7 the only items that I'm going to speak to -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: We're on Page 31. Let us get 9 on the right page with you, Judge Ragsdale. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Let me know 11 when you're ready. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Is everybody on the 13 right page now? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Been there. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, I apologize. I was late 16 getting there. Judge Ragsdale? 17 JUDGE RAGSDALE: Okay. Item Number 105 -- 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes? 19 JUDGE RAGSDALE: Okay. I have requested a 20 salary increase. Part of this increase is the -- the step 21 increase that was requested -- or suggested by Dr. Nash in 22 his study, but there is a difference. Also, I've asked for 23 a little bit more for the clerk, to bring him at the same 24 level that the other clerks are being paid, $24,152. Do you 25 have a question on that? I would like -- 8-19-03 wk 132 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're not all paid the 2 same? 3 JUDGE RAGSDALE: Well, let me put -- this 4 raises him up to, say, comparable, if not -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, it's comparable to 6 2, but above 1 and 3. But, anyway -- 7 JUDGE RAGSDALE: Okay. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: But the -- for the Court's 9 benefit, the recommended figure does include the longevity 10 increase that -- that -- 11 JUDGE RAGSDALE: From the Nash thing. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. The Nash, I -- I guess, 13 but it's based upon that schedule. And that's included in 14 there. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- 16 JUDGE TINLEY: What you're seeking is an 17 additional step plus a COLA? 18 JUDGE RAGSDALE: Yes. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Well, the Court's going 20 to make a decision whether or not to grant a COLA. 21 JUDGE RAGSDALE: Regardless -- 22 JUDGE TINLEY: In entirety. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So I understand, 24 longevity increase, that's good. The other additional step 25 increase, for some reason, it was not picked up during the 8-19-03 wk 133 1 Nash study? Or the job description has changed that 2 requires it to be at a higher level? 3 JUDGE RAGSDALE: There is a dynamic increase 4 in business. He is -- he is working extremely hard to try 5 and keep up, and I'm helping him. But, I mean, he is -- he 6 is very worthy of the compensation. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess, you know, what 8 I'm -- where I'm trying to go is that we did the Nash study, 9 and I think we're still trying to follow it. If we need to 10 adjust the job description of that individual, that's one 11 thing. And that's really the only way that I see, up to 12 this point, I mean, that we can do an increase, is if the -- 13 what the job is, is beyond what the job description he's 14 currently being paid at specifies. And, you know, as to why 15 there's a discrepancy in the clerks' salaries -- 16 JUDGE RAGSDALE: Well, there are -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- I'm not sure. 18 JUDGE RAGSDALE: Pardon me for interrupting. 19 There are some other issues, too, quite frankly. He is 20 eligible for Medicaid, his family. The salary that the -- 21 the County is paying makes him eligible for Medicaid. 22 Children on WIC and Medicaid. That's -- that's 23 embarrassing. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That -- 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's not unique to 8-19-03 wk 134 1 this particular individual. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm just -- 3 JUDGE RAGSDALE: Pardon me? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That is not unique 5 for this particular county -- individual. We have others in 6 the county whose compensation also places them in those 7 categories. 8 JUDGE RAGSDALE: That's embarrassing also. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We understand. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think we agree. I 11 think what we're saying is we need to be consistent. We 12 can't just go in and pick out one person, you know, and 13 raise their salary. 14 JUDGE RAGSDALE: I can't address other 15 people's -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 17 JUDGE RAGSDALE: -- budget issues. All I can 18 do is address the one that I'm responsible for. And -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's possible that 21 this job was underclassified, Jon. I don't know what the 22 other three precinct clerks do. 23 JUDGE RAGSDALE: They do a lot. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm intimately 25 familiar with what this young man does, and he's more like 8-19-03 wk 135 1 an office manager than he is a -- 2 JUDGE RAGSDALE: And they all -- perhaps they 3 should all be addressed, but I cannot do but one. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That may be the 5 issue. We may need to look at that classification. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: For all of them. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Just give them the 8 proper recognition. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: May be a broader question than 10 just this one -- this one particular individual. 11 JUDGE RAGSDALE: And that's -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that's 13 probably the case. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Possibly all four -- 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- offices are all 17 alike. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which I would like a 19 classification for the clerk in Precinct 2. 20 JUDGE RAGSDALE: Exactly. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let's look at the 22 classification. 23 JUDGE RAGSDALE: And if you do one, I'm 24 hoping that you would go ahead and -- and help each one of 25 them get a salary that is in line with the work that they 8-19-03 wk 136 1 do, each one of them. I'm very familiar with -- with each 2 one of them, and there are none of them that should back up 3 for their paycheck at all. But, like I said, I can only 4 address one at a time, and that's mine. Now, also -- sorry? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: What other items did you have? 6 JUDGE RAGSDALE: Number 310. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 8 JUDGE RAGSDALE: I asked for $2,095. I'm 9 going to have to ask you for -- just make it $2,600, and 10 I'll tell you why. I made an error in a purchase. I 11 purchased what I thought was -- was the neatest thing that 12 happened since pinto beans; it was a wonderful printer. I 13 got $800 in -- in rebates, which took a $1,200 machine down 14 to about $400. Well, I found out why. You've got to feed 15 this monster, and it is not inexpensive whatsoever. 16 Cartridges are about $60 to $80, but you also have to 17 replace certain drums when you replace the cartridges, which 18 make a feeding session about $300 to $350. They're 19 computer-chipped so that, at a certain amount of copies, 20 they die. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: What number of copies is that? 22 JUDGE RAGSDALE: I -- it's something like 23 6,500. It's a large amount of copies, but it just dies. 24 When that computer chip breaks, that's the end of the drum, 25 and when you replace the drum, you have to replace these 8-19-03 wk 137 1 other rollers, and it's about $300. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's a laser printer? 3 JUDGE RAGSDALE: Yes, sir. Now, the good 4 news is this. The reason I'm asking you for the money -- 5 and I'm not necessarily sure I'd have to spend it. Because, 6 as you know, the technology fund has been approved by the -- 7 J.P. technology fund fee has been approved by the Texas 8 Legislature. There was a lawsuit pending in Travis County, 9 whether or not that -- that was equal protection and all 10 this trash. They -- they made it -- they made it known that 11 they were holding back on deciding this case or allowing it 12 to go on the docket pending the outcome of the Legislature. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge? 14 JUDGE RAGSDALE: Legislature said okay, so 15 they anticipate that the lawsuit will go by the wayside. 16 Once the Commissioners Court authorizes us or instructs us 17 to take and to be able to spend that money, then I won't -- 18 I will anticipate that I'll be able to feed this machine off 19 that technology fund and not office supplies. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I placed it on 21 the agenda, what you're asking about. 22 JUDGE RAGSDALE: For Monday, yes, sir. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Next Monday. 24 JUDGE RAGSDALE: So, if that goes through, 25 then I may not have to spend some of these funds that I'm 8-19-03 wk 138 1 budgeting. But, by the same token, I don't know -- you 2 can't say what you're going to do. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You would -- I suspect if 4 it's like most fees, though, you still have to budget for 5 it. It's just that there will be a designated fund where 6 that money will come out of. 7 JUDGE RAGSDALE: We're not -- I think that is 8 an issue that you're going to have to discuss Monday also. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 10 JUDGE RAGSDALE: As to what would be the 11 process. Because all four J.P.'s are putting into this one 12 pool. What would be the process of disbursement of it? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 14 JUDGE RAGSDALE: So, I anticipate we'll 15 actually be able to use that money, and not the general 16 budget money. Okay? So, I just wanted to let you know 17 that. I don't think there are any other issues that I have, 18 unless you have questions concerning what's been requested. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Any member of the Court have 20 any questions for Judge Ragsdale, or any comments or -- yes? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I needed to know what 22 we're putting in the 310. $2,600, was it? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: That's what he's asking. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And seemed to me 25 that's what -- about what J.P. 3 has, $2,600. 8-19-03 wk 139 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that the same as saying you 2 don't have a problem, then, with looking kindly on his 3 request? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, that's not saying 5 that at all. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I see. 7 JUDGE RAGSDALE: Can I ask the Court -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: What is it saying? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's saying that I've 10 written down $2,600. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 12 JUDGE RAGSDALE: Has the Court addressed our 13 office rent issue? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Office rent? 15 JUDGE RAGSDALE: Has anybody asked him if 16 he's going to go up? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: You're the only one that has 18 an office rent issue that I'm aware of, and -- 19 JUDGE RAGSDALE: Paula Rector. That is a 20 courthouse annex. It's not -- I mean, you all have put that 21 in my budget with the utilities, but -- 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Didn't -- do we not 23 have a contract with the guy? Yes, is the answer. And is 24 that a one-year contract or a two-year contract, or three? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: We don't know. 8-19-03 wk 140 1 MS. SOVIL: I think it automatically renews. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Huh? 3 MS. SOVIL: It automatically renews unless he 4 notifies us. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, that's right. 6 JUDGE RAGSDALE: Okay. Well, that answered 7 my question. Anything else, gentlemen? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't have anything further. 9 JUDGE RAGSDALE: Thank you. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: I appreciate you being here. 11 Sorry to detain you and delay you. 12 JUDGE RAGSDALE: Thank you. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Why don't we then go back to 14 3? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll go in reverse order 17 here. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The last shall be 19 first, the first shall be last. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Judge O'Dell. 22 (Discussion off the record.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Sorry? 24 JUDGE O'DELL: I said mine was going to be 25 short, and Judge Elliott said I was short -- so was I. 8-19-03 wk 141 1 JUDGE TINLEY: You didn't take that too 2 kindly? 3 JUDGE O'DELL: No. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Maybe we'll cut him 5 short. 6 JUDGE O'DELL: Yeah, off at the knees. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. 8 JUDGE O'DELL: Is it -- to my understanding 9 on the clerk's salary that y'all are going to look at that? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 11 JUDGE O'DELL: For everybody? Okay. Well, 12 then, guess what? I'm fine. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Any member of the Court got 14 any questions for Judge O'Dell? Anything they want to 15 address to her? 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Is your $2,600 in 17 310 based on the same logic as Judge Ragsdale's? 18 JUDGE O'DELL: No, sir. No, sir. You -- 19 you're asking me why I have $2,600? I use that. I used it 20 last year for envelopes, paper, et cetera, et cetera. And 21 I've -- I've used it up. I requested it, and there it is. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, according to my -- 23 JUDGE O'DELL: I could use it. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: -- calculations, through July, 25 she used more than -- than the amount she's requesting for 8-19-03 wk 142 1 the year. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Because of the layout of 3 the precinct -- 4 JUDGE O'DELL: I got a lot of the interstate. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- 3 and 4, by far, do 6 more of this, just because of the interstate. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thank you. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I do have a question. 9 I notice, in both your budget and Precinct 1, that the 10 software maintenance costs are considerably different than 11 the other two. Is there a reason? 12 JUDGE O'DELL: Well, it was to my 13 understanding that it was going up 5 percent. 14 JUDGE ELLIOTT: He's talking about the 15 general issue. That's because we're on the software user 16 group, and they're not. That's all. 17 JUDGE O'DELL: Okay. 18 JUDGE ELLIOTT: We're on the same system 19 through Tommy that interacts with the rest of the 20 courthouse. 21 JUDGE O'DELL: Yeah. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And the other J.P.'s 23 are on another system? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: 2 and 4 are on a different -- 25 JUDGE O'DELL: On Apollo. 8-19-03 wk 143 1 JUDGE TINLEY: -- system. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would explain 3 it. 4 JUDGE O'DELL: I'm sorry. Thank you. 5 JUDGE WRIGHT: Temporarily, I hope. 6 JUDGE O'DELL: Yeah, that was the best thing 7 I ever did. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 9 JUDGE O'DELL: Okay, thank you. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Appreciate it. 11 JUDGE O'DELL: Thanks. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's go to Precinct 2, 13 Judge Wright. Thank you for being here. 14 JUDGE WRIGHT: I won't take up much of your 15 time either. In the last week and a half -- I didn't 16 discuss this with you when I came in for my session, but 17 Lin's with been out with her husband, who's critical, and 18 for the last -- 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Sorry to hear that. 20 Commissioner Williams kind of bought me up to date on it. 21 Terribly sorry to hear it. 22 JUDGE WRIGHT: Not good. Anyway, I've been 23 working on -- on my own, and I'm finding out exactly how 24 much they do. And I think my Commissioner's wife found out; 25 she came out and helped me for a while. But I'm asking that 8-19-03 wk 144 1 my part-time salary be increased to $1,000. Quite frankly, 2 I need some help this week. I'm on call, and right now my 3 office is locked up. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You have -- I mean, is 5 this a request because of the -- what's going on right now? 6 I mean, do we need to do -- 7 JUDGE WRIGHT: We've always managed to work 8 it to where, if I was on call, she didn't take any time off, 9 and usually we can handle it, because what she has to do can 10 sit there for two or three days if she takes vacation. But 11 this time, with the long session, there's a lot of her 12 things that I don't even know how to do. And right now, 13 we're kind of -- she's going to come up at night and start 14 doing some work as soon as she gets him out of ICU to help 15 me get caught up. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My question is more, do 17 we need to do a budget amendment for this year's budget? 18 Or -- 19 JUDGE WRIGHT: We -- yes. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're going to 21 engineer one for -- 22 JUDGE WRIGHT: We took all of my scraps and 23 put it into two days employment. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Bottom of several 25 barrels. 8-19-03 wk 145 1 JUDGE WRIGHT: I have someone coming in for 2 two days to help me out. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, that's my question. 4 JUDGE WRIGHT: Any questions? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else, Judge Wright? 6 JUDGE WRIGHT: No. This only -- I'm 7 concerned about the salary also, but I'm assuming that will 8 be addressed. And -- 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I just want to be 10 sure, based on what I asked Justice 3, that the software 11 maintenance charge -- you've asked for $3,500 more than you 12 had last year. Is that going to get you on the system that 13 you need and want to be on? 14 JUDGE WRIGHT: If you'll look at it, I've got 15 some capital outlay in this budget to get me onto Software 16 Group. I can't -- 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't see it. 18 That's the reason I asked. 19 JUDGE WRIGHT: I love what I'm on, but I can 20 not get any tech support at all. They won't even return a 21 call. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: What Judge Wright is referring 23 to is, under 562, I believe that's the 14,8 to get you over 24 onto -- 25 JUDGE WRIGHT: Software Group. 8-19-03 wk 146 1 JUDGE TINLEY: To convert to you Software 2 Group. 3 JUDGE WRIGHT: That's precisely why I didn't 4 ask for it last year. They wanted $18,000 to put me over, 5 and I thought that that was ridiculous. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I see it. I just -- 7 I was looking on the wrong line. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: As I told Lin of your office, 9 I would attempt to make the call to this -- it's not Apollo. 10 Whatever the -- 11 JUDGE WRIGHT: And they never did return your 12 call. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: You've probably been listening 14 in on my phone conversations, 'cause that's exactly -- 15 JUDGE WRIGHT: Well, I could have told you 16 they wouldn't. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: That's what's Lin told me 18 also, and they did not respond to me. And -- 19 JUDGE WRIGHT: Being tacky, I'll preface that 20 with -- the last time I called, I got a receptionist. I 21 said, "Do you do other departments of the county other than 22 J.P.'s? Do you do the District Clerk? Treasurer?" "Oh, we 23 sure do." I said, "Okay. Well, you ask them to give me a 24 call." And I didn't even get a response out of that. I was 25 hoping it would set it up for you, but no response. 8-19-03 wk 147 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Judge Wright. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. That brings us now to 4 J.P. 1, Judge Elliott. 5 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Before I get started, 6 Commissioner Baldwin had mentioned that there was some blood 7 on the floor from last Friday. I want to know whose it was 8 before I get started on this budget. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Rusty's. 10 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Okay. Of course, the first 11 item would, of course, be the salary adjustment that has 12 been mentioned. A couple years ago, there was a -- a study 13 done by the Commissioners Court on, like, salary adjustments 14 for our elected officials, so that second half that was 15 projected or suggested that they would cover the next year 16 was put into the official's salary with a 2.5 percent -- I 17 understand where you're at on the 2.5 percent. So, as -- 18 Judge Tinley, as you and I talked in my office when we 19 reviewed the budget initially, that survey that was done by 20 the Commissioners Court at the time stated that the Justice 21 of the Peace, in order to be up to the average, needed about 22 a $1,284 adjustment. There was six -- half of that, $642, 23 was given, with the other half to be anticipated in the next 24 year. And that's been a couple years ago and never was 25 given, so that's why that number's in there. 8-19-03 wk 148 1 The secretary's salary is, again, another 2 issue that the Court was made aware of several months ago, 3 and I would hope it would have the numbers and be ready to 4 address the issue on the annual merit increase of our 5 employees. An annual anniversary date is an anniversary 6 date. It's not 10 months later; it's not eight months 7 later. An anniversary date is one year from the time they 8 started, and it's my position that those employees should 9 get their anniversary date on the month that they turn one 10 year with the County, and so that's why that number was put 11 in there. And I understand you're going to address that 12 issue at another time, but certainly, we've addressed that a 13 few months ago, and I would have hoped that y'all would have 14 been ready to make the right decision to insure that our 15 employees were given an anniversary date/longevity increase 16 when it's due. 17 Part-time salary. This is on Line Item 108. 18 That was requested at $1,400, but when I got my budget back, 19 it was only $700, and I really don't know where that number 20 came from. Who put $700? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I put the number in there, and 22 that is the same number that was given to all J.P.'s -- 23 recommended for all the J.P.'s. Their part-time salary is 24 basically -- 25 JUDGE ELLIOTT: How did you get that number? 8-19-03 wk 149 1 JUDGE TINLEY: -- to cover for vacation time 2 taken by your clerk. 3 JUDGE ELLIOTT: I mean, did you have any 4 calculations you used for that, Judge? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Insofar as calculating off of 6 minimum wage or something like that? 7 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Did you just say -- why 8 wasn't it $500? Why not $800? Where'd you get $700? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I can certainly make it $500. 10 But I didn't make any particular wage or hour calculation. 11 Most of the -- most of the J.P.'s had asked for $700, $750, 12 as I recall, and so I settled on that number for each of the 13 respective offices. 14 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Okay. Well, I did do my 15 calculations, and if you have two weeks vacation, a week of 16 training, it comes out to $1,400. That's a very easy 17 calculation to make, 120 hours times $12 an hour for 18 temporary help, and it comes out to $1,400. So, if the -- 19 if the court coordinator cannot be in the office and we 20 don't have enough part-time available for us in the budget, 21 then, obviously, the office would have to be temporarily 22 closed for that period of time. That's the reason that we 23 requested -- I requested $1,400. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Judge, what you're 25 asking for is significantly higher than the combined 8-19-03 wk 150 1 requests of the other J.P.'s. What's the -- is there 2 something different about your office? 3 JUDGE ELLIOTT: I don't know. I don't know 4 how they calculated their numbers. I just know what my 5 numbers are. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Is -- is your current 7 coordinator entitled to two weeks vacation? 8 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Yes, sir. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 10 JUDGE ELLIOTT: So -- so, I respectfully 11 request that the Court adjust that $700 to an amount that 12 would replace her while she is on vacation and/or in 13 training. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is a little bit of 15 a -- to me, a county-wide policy issue. Up to now, we have 16 not done that. I mean, we, you know, put some part-time 17 salary in, but we do not -- basically, like, in the District 18 Clerk's Office or our office here, we don't calculate the 19 amount of vacation time allowed and then multiply that by 20 $12 an hour and come up with a part-time figure, assuming 21 they're all -- that we're going to fill all the spots. I 22 mean, our office is closed occasionally. And, the other 23 elected officials, you know, I presume they just don't have 24 certain functions, or they -- 25 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Well, if they have a large 8-19-03 wk 151 1 staff, they can certainly overlap. When you only have one 2 person running the office, then it's either -- we're either 3 temporarily closed, or -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But -- okay, the 5 Treasurer. I mean, you know, there are comparable offices. 6 They just -- I'm not saying it's good or bad. I'm saying 7 that's not the -- that's kind of a policy issue as to how we 8 want to handle that. I think it needs to be consistent. If 9 we're going to start allowing for calculating part-time on 10 that basis, it has a pretty big impact on the budget. Just 11 a comment. 12 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Any other comments on that 13 line item? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. I'm just 15 curious as to why your requirements are different from the 16 other three. 17 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Well, the same reason that, 18 for example, office supplies, Commissioner, for your Justice 19 of the Peace is $2,000-something and mine's only $1,751. I 20 mean, we -- different precincts require different things to 21 happen. We perform -- for example, perform more civil cases 22 than the other three J.P.'s. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't get the 24 analogy between envelopes and paper and people. 25 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Well, somebody's got to be 8-19-03 wk 152 1 there to take care of it. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But my question is, 3 why is it more for your precinct than it would be for the 4 other three? That's my question. 5 JUDGE ELLIOTT: I don't have a clue why the 6 other three don't calculate theirs the same way I do mine. 7 I just know that I'm -- my Court coordinator is going to be 8 out three weeks. And while she's out three weeks, I've got 9 to replace her, and that's where that number comes from. As 10 Judge Ragsdale said, I don't get into the details of the 11 other Justice of the Peace. I can certainly tell you what 12 Precinct 1 needs to do. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I see. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other items? 15 JUDGE ELLIOTT: The conferences, we had 16 requested 15 and that got reduced to $1,000. I don't 17 understand where that number came from. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Essentially, the same answer 19 that I gave you with respect to part-time. That's a uniform 20 figure that was plugged in, I believe, into all four 21 budgets. 22 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Well, it certainly wasn't -- 23 what's the difference in the -- the Justice of the Peace 24 conference of $1,000 versus a Commissioner's with $1,125? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Depends on what your 8-19-03 wk 153 1 requirements are. I mean, my view has been, and we've made 2 a comment -- you may not have been in here, 'cause you've 3 not been at all the workshops, but whatever the hour 4 requirements required to get your hours is what we should 5 fund. Commissioners Court felt that we can barely get it 6 done, probably, with $1,125. Some of them required $2,000; 7 some of them, you know, $1,500. It varies, and it's 8 whatever -- you know, the J.P.'s, I mean, they all should be 9 the same, I think, because y'all require the same amount of 10 education, I think. 11 JUDGE ELLIOTT: We also send our court 12 coordinators to training school, and that's -- we take that 13 out of the conference budget. Maybe that's where it's 14 misleading, that you're thinking $1,000 is just for the 15 elected official, when in actuality it's -- it's for our 16 court coordinator as well. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that number is -- 18 you know, I think all the J.P.'s have the same requirement 19 here, and they all should be the same, and we need to fund 20 whatever that amount is. And, you know, I have to look to 21 y'all to tell me what the amount is. 22 JUDGE ELLIOTT: As far as the -- the amount 23 required, you know, there is no requirement for a Justice of 24 the Peace to go to a death inquest training seminar, but 25 certainly we spent $500 to send a Justice of the Peace to a 8-19-03 wk 154 1 death inquest seminar, and it helped them evaluate better 2 when to order an autopsy or not, and it saved the County 3 $2,000 on one autopsy. More than paid for itself. So, 4 conferences can be very beneficial. Education of your 5 elected officials should be a priority, and that's why I 6 feel that that number needs to be raised to $1,500. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you a 8 question. Are court coordinators for J.P.'s -- are they 9 required by law to be certified? 10 JUDGE ELLIOTT: They're not required by law, 11 but they -- the Justice Court Training Center certainly has 12 about as many training programs for the court coordinators 13 as they do for judges, because most of the time, that 14 frontline person, the court coordinator, is making the 15 decisions on the phone that -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure, I understand 17 that. 18 JUDGE ELLIOTT: -- jeopardize the office if 19 not made properly. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other items? 21 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Well, you know, it's -- what 22 we recommend is what we had -- what we've been currently 23 operating on this budget year, and your recommendations, 24 Judge, decrease our budget 6 percent, and I just don't know 25 that we're going to have 6 percent to play with. The other 8-19-03 wk 155 1 issue is, Justices of the Peace, as you guys may be aware, 2 have to go out to the State Hospital two times a week for 3 hearings. And there -- you know, we have some type of 4 supplement pay. I did notice in the court -- court line 5 item, 426, for judicial supplement, there was a new line 6 item of $4,000. Is that $4,000 for the Justice of the 7 Peace? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Are you speaking of the County 9 Court budget? 10 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Yes, sir. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: You know, I'm glad you asked 12 that question, Judge Elliott, because there have been a 13 number of questions that have been raised about that from 14 the other day. And, as a matter of fact, I've had one or 15 more elected officials that have made inquiry of me whether 16 or not that was an item which was a transfer from another 17 line item of funds, or whether it was, in fact, a new line 18 item, and these at least two elected officials that made 19 inquiry of me both indicated that they had received an 20 inquiry soliciting them to inquire about that particular 21 question. Now, whether or not the -- 22 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Whose inquiry, and inquire 23 what? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Whether or not that -- that 25 elected official that was making the inquiry, who apparently 8-19-03 wk 156 1 wanted to be nameless -- and I don't know, it could have 2 been any -- any one of the elected officials; they were only 3 identified as an elected official. I don't know whether the 4 reason for making the inquiry was because the person that -- 5 that was really urging the other elected officials to 6 inquire of me didn't have the ability to ascertain from 7 looking at the budget whether or not it was a transfer or 8 new money, as it were. 9 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Right. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Or whether they didn't have 11 the courtesy to come ask me directly. 12 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Mm-hmm. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Or both. But it very well 14 could have been. But the clear answer to your question is, 15 that is a brand-new item. It is not a transfer. It is not 16 transfer funds. Now, that particular item was put in the 17 budget in order that this Commissioners Court would be aware 18 of what the obligations and commitments of the County are. 19 In preparing the budget for Kerr County, or any other 20 entity, for that matter, it is my feeling that you have a 21 number of items that have got to be into the equation in 22 order to properly budget. One is, you need to know what all 23 of the obligations and the commitments are for the entity 24 for which a budget is being prepared. And, two, for those 25 that you're not certain about, they're probable, but in all 8-19-03 wk 157 1 reasonable probability, you can anticipate you need to 2 include those so that you can provide for them, and those 3 items need to be clearly identified and disclosed. And once 4 you have those, then you need to identify your available 5 revenues or resources available. With that in-hand, you're 6 then in a position to make a -- a proper schedule of 7 disposition of those items. Now, it would seem to me that, 8 in the event you don't have all of the knowledge you need to 9 have about what the obligations and commitments are, that 10 you're really not in a position to prepare an adequate 11 budget. Wouldn't you agree? Now, therefore, it's essential 12 that you know what all of those are. 13 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Okay. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Now, the fact that you fail to 15 recognize the existence of an obligation and you don't 16 identify it, you don't disclose it, that doesn't make that 17 obligation go away or otherwise be diminished in any manner. 18 It would be somewhat like going out and signing a contract 19 to buy a car, and then later on into the contract, deciding 20 that, you know, "I could spend this money better for other 21 purposes," so you're going to ignore that you have that 22 obligation; you're going to commit these funds that you 23 would have otherwise utilized for that purpose, and proceed 24 to expend them for another purpose. Well, you're going to 25 get out around pretty soon, and that obligation is still 8-19-03 wk 158 1 going to exist and is not going to be diminished. As a 2 matter of fact, it might get you in some sort of difficulty. 3 I think it was incumbent upon me, as the 4 budget officer, to recognize the obligations and commitments 5 of this county to all of its employees and officials, and to 6 disclose those when I prepared this budget. Certainly, had 7 I not disclosed the longevity increases, the educational 8 increases, or mentioned up front that -- that the elected 9 officials' salaries, as it were, were something that was 10 before the Court, I don't think I would have been properly 11 looking after the interests of this county. Now, by the 12 same token, had I omitted that item, inasmuch as it is an 13 obligation and commitment, would it have been discharging my 14 duty as budget officer? The answer is clearly no. Now -- 15 now, let's get to the real issue. The real issue is, does 16 the fact that I have disclosed that, brought it to the 17 forefront, placed it before this Court as an obligation of 18 this County, does that now make it my issue? No, it 19 doesn't. That obligation was incurred back in 1999, at the 20 same time that the salary and longevity increases were 21 incurred, and it carries the same weight and obligation as 22 those salary increases. So, merely because you don't like 23 the message is no reason to shoot the messenger. 24 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Your Honor -- 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Merely because someone decides 8-19-03 wk 159 1 to disclose the existence of a preexisting problem, don't 2 use that as a -- as a way to blame the problem on the one 3 that disclosed it. 4 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Your Honor, I didn't say I 5 had a problem with anything, nor do I blame anybody for 6 anything. I asked a simple question. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Well -- 8 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Is that judicial supplement 9 to -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: You got your answer. 11 JUDGE ELLIOTT: No, I didn't. What's the -- 12 what is that judicial supplement for? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: That judicial supplement is 14 for -- that this Court put into place for hearing cases away 15 from the courthouse is for the judge hearing temporary 16 commitment hearings and other hearings of like kind. 17 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Who would receive that 18 compensation, Judge? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: The county judge who hears the 20 cases. 21 JUDGE ELLIOTT: So, what you've recommended 22 to the Court is a budget that includes a $4,000 supplemental 23 increase in your income. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: I have recommended to this 25 Court that they be aware of a commitment that this County 8-19-03 wk 160 1 has that's been in existence since 1999. These -- these 2 items are paid by court costs that are collected in mental 3 health cases. 4 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Surely, they've been 5 collected -- 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Some of which come from other 7 counties and which are charged to other counties. 8 JUDGE ELLIOTT: And they've been coming in; 9 they've been going into the general revenue fund. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: That's correct. That's 11 correct. 12 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Now, you also -- you do 13 receive a supplement for hearings already. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: No, sir, I don't. 15 JUDGE ELLIOTT: You don't? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: No, sir, I don't. 17 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Well, state supplement, I 18 guess, is for your other duties. You know, the issue with 19 the $4,000 is, that is a $4,000 supplemental increase that 20 you've recommended for your income, for your salary. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I have placed it before this 22 Court for consideration. 23 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Why didn't you place before 24 the Court consideration to give our employees a 2.5 percent 25 increase? 8-19-03 wk 161 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Because -- 2 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Why is it okay for one and 3 not the other? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I placed before the Court the 5 commitment that this County made to its employees in 1999, 6 just as I've placed before the Court the commitment that it 7 made in 1999 with respect to the issue that you inquired 8 about. 9 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Well, I just -- I find it 10 ironic -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Now, if you have any other 12 issues about your budget, let's talk about them. 13 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Well, I -- 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Otherwise -- 15 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Because -- because J.P.'s do 16 perform judicial duties at the State Hospital, when I saw 17 that that State Hospital had a judicial supplement of 18 $4,000, that certainly got my attention. But I can see that 19 you feel that you -- that you really put this in the budget, 20 which means you recommend it, that you would get a $4,000 21 supplemental increase in your salary, when you have held 22 everybody else and cut everyone else's budget, mine 23 6 percent, and not give a cost-of-living adjustment to 24 employees, but yet we can take care of the County Judge and 25 increase his salary $4,000. 8-19-03 wk 162 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Judge Elliott, I have honored 2 the same commitments of this county to the employees as I 3 have done in this case. Any other questions about your 4 budget? 5 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Is there any judicial 6 supplements offered -- increase offered for any of the 7 J.P.'s performing judicial hearings at the State Hospital? 8 That was the original question. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Is this in your budget? 10 JUDGE ELLIOTT: They're not in our budgets? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: There's none in your budget, 12 no, sir. 13 JUDGE ELLIOTT: There's none in any of the 14 budgets. Okay, that's what I need to know. Thank you. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait a minute. Wait a 16 minute. Wait a minute. I've got a question. 17 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're going to be the 19 only J.P. that hangs in with this particular computer 20 program? 21 JUDGE ELLIOTT: I'm sorry? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All three other J.P.'s 23 now have moved to the -- 24 JUDGE ELLIOTT: No, Commissioner. I'm in the 25 courthouse; I've been on the software ever since I came in 8-19-03 wk 163 1 the office. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, so you're the only 3 one that's always been there. Now the -- the other three 4 are moving over to you? 5 JUDGE ELLIOTT: That's right. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, forgive me. 7 JUDGE ELLIOTT: That was under -- when I 8 first came into office, I evaluated all the different 9 programs. I talked with Tommy about the current program. 10 We decided that was the best program to stay with. The 11 other J.P.'s have now jumped on board. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. Thank 13 you. 14 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Thank you. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions? Okay. 16 We're down to -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Done. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: No, we had -- no. No, we had 19 a couple -- couple ideas go in here. D.P.S. Weights and 20 Measures. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That brings us to -- 22 MS. SOVIL: We scheduled the District Courts. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Huh? 24 MS. SOVIL: We also scheduled the District 25 Courts. 8-19-03 wk 164 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, right after that. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which number? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Page 58, looks like. Anybody 4 here from D.P.S.? 5 (No response.) 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What time are they 7 scheduled? 3:30? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: They were actually scheduled 9 at 3:00. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't recall seeing anybody 12 here from D.P.S. this afternoon. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you, Rusty? 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, I haven't seen 16 anybody around here. I can look outside real quick, but I 17 haven't seen anyone. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I was going to 20 recommend -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: 57 and 58. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I was wondering about 23 57, yeah. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We -- well, we had 8-19-03 wk 165 1 this little visit last year about them actually being in the 2 courtroom during budget time, so obviously they choose not 3 to -- I don't have any problem adopting your recommended. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any questions about 5 License and Weights? 58. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: None. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait just a second. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm good on both 9 pages, 57 and 58. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I guess not. God, 11 everybody's sad in here. What's the deal? 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Is it -- just a 13 question for my education. Is supplementing the salary of 14 the secretary -- D.P.S. secretary, is that a common practice 15 in counties? Or is it peculiar to Kerr County? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, it is. And I 17 don't know that we supplement. Seems like we pay -- we 18 actually pay her salary. She's a County employee over 19 there. Because -- because -- I mean, I'm not going to make 20 their case for them, but they -- I see it pretty clear that 21 they go out and -- and write all these tickets and do all 22 this traffic stuff, and it's income for the county, and 23 instead of them -- the officer himself going in and doing 24 his work, doing the secretarial work, we have a secretary 25 over there that does it for them. They can stay out there 8-19-03 wk 166 1 on the road and make money. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Makes sense to me. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Pretty clear to me. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What percent -- you may 5 not know this. What percent of the traffic fines -- does 6 the County get all of it? 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. I'm -- I want to 8 say -- and I'm not sure, Commissioner, but I think it's 9 under 50 percent, but I could check and let you know during 10 the -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can ask one of the 12 J.P.'s. I mean, I understand the logic of getting them out 13 on the road, but at the same time, I mean, they don't -- we 14 do all the paperwork. We do all the processing. We do 15 everything already, and we're -- then we're paying the 16 secretary over there. But I'm not objecting to it, just 17 pointing out the true story. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Been there before, 19 haven't we? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Nothing else on D.P.S.? 21 I had inserted District Court, which is 17, I believe -- 22 yes. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Page 17? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, mm-hmm. The only item 25 there that -- that was brought to my attention by either 8-19-03 wk 167 1 Judge Ables or the -- his court coordinator has to do with 2 the first item that you see up there at the top, 101, 3 Elected Official Salary. When I initially saw that on the 4 print, I thought it was an anomaly, because I thought, well, 5 we don't pay the District Judge's salary, and I thought it 6 was just a misprint. I went right on by it, didn't pay any 7 attention to it, because it was not on the print that I had 8 seen earlier that I had worked up my -- my initial 9 preliminary figures with that I turned in to the Auditor. 10 Later on, I was given to understand that the Auditor's 11 office had been contacted without my knowledge with regard 12 to the item that you see there. The explanation for that is 13 that the District Judges have a salary cap relative to 14 the -- to the appellate judges, and the difference between 15 that salary cap and what they're actually earning, they are 16 permitted to receive by virtue of supplements which are 17 received from the counties in which they serve. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Does this number take 19 them to the cap? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, that number takes him to 21 the cap. What it does, it permits $90 a month to be paid by 22 each of four counties that he's -- that Judge Ables serves 23 in, and each of them, I assume, is being requested to pay 24 $1,080. So, that -- that's how that number was arrived at. 25 The difference between his cap and what he's presently 8-19-03 wk 168 1 receiving is permissible supplement. It's our share of it, 2 one-fourth share. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why doesn't it also 4 appear on the 198th? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Because it wasn't requested, 6 is the only answer I can give you. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good answer. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why, on the 198th, does 9 it not show the elected official salary, or am I just not 10 seeing it? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: It does not appear there. It 12 was not -- that same -- that same request was not made. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, the -- oh, I 14 guess because there was no request. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, exactly. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So that you leave it off 17 totally. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I'm -- you know, 20 I guess my feeling is that we should hear all the reports. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, can you tell me 22 what his salary is now? Or is that none of my business or 23 what? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: It is your business, but I 25 can't tell you. 8-19-03 wk 169 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I mean -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: 'Cause I don't know. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are you and I fighting 4 about something? Why can't you tell me? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Because I don't know. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We've been friends a 7 long time. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Simple answer is, I don't 9 know. 10 MS. SOVIL: Auditor may know. 11 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't know either. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: $103,000? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What did Tommy say? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He doesn't know. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: It's something in excess of a 16 hundred, isn't it? 17 MR. TOMLINSON: I think it's in excess of, 18 but I'm not sure how much. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Roughly 103, it seems. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: I know our County Court at 22 Law Judge's salary's based on that. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, 80 percent. 24 MS. SOVIL: No, $1,000 less. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. 8-19-03 wk 170 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's more than 2 80 percent. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, one -- if we 4 granted this request here and bump him up to his cap, then 5 County Court at Law automatically bumps up? Tommy? 6 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't know if -- if that 7 statute includes supplements of the District Judge or not. 8 But I guess Senate Bill 66 is the -- or HB 66 law. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 10 MR. TOMLINSON: So I don't know if -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is the D.A. tied to it 12 as well? 13 MR. TOMLINSON: No, the District Attorney's 14 not tied to it, but the County Court at Law Judge in this 15 county is. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 17 MS. SOVIL: D.A. is tied to it, too. They 18 make the same salaries as the District Judge. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah, we don't sup -- 20 MS. SOVIL: We don't supplement it, but it is 21 tied to it. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't know. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My only question on this 24 overall budget -- and I should -- to get off the topic, my 25 preference would be to leave it blank. For -- under 8-19-03 wk 171 1 Court-Appointed Attorneys, or maybe more appropriate, 2 Special Trials, it appears that we're going to have a 3 capital murder trial this year, and I don't think that I see 4 funds allocated for that. 5 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't want them to be 6 there. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We may not want them to 8 be here, but I'm afraid he's going to be here. 9 MR. TOMLINSON: I have to report court -- 10 court-appointed activities to a task force on indigent 11 defense, and the report is designed so that -- that I'd 12 like -- I'd like to separate the costs by -- by the way the 13 report's designed. So then I'll have to massage numbers 14 throughout the -- the budget to come up with that number 15 that I send to the task force. And the reason we send it is 16 to get reimbursed from the task force. That's the reason we 17 do this. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. Well, is -- 19 MR. TOMLINSON: That's why -- that's why we 20 did away with funding that line item. So -- so all the 21 court appointments are in the same account. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, it's included in the 23 Court-Appointed Attorney line item? 24 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes, it is. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you think $100,000 is 8-19-03 wk 172 1 going to cover that trial? 2 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't have -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I think that 4 we're going to have a huge expense for this trial. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: A little status update 6 on that, if I may. There was one psychiatric hearing 7 already done -- or evaluation. There will be several more 8 done in regards to that. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I can't hear you, 10 Rusty. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There was one 12 psychiatric evaluation just completed the other day. There 13 will be probably several more done before it's all over 14 with. If there is a competency finding -- there is one 15 court-appointed attorney to that defendant right now. There 16 will definitely be another court-appointed attorney to that 17 defendant, and there will most likely be an investigator 18 appointed to that -- to the court-appointed attorneys, and 19 it will be -- unfortunately, for all of us, if there's 20 competency, it's probably going to be one of the most 21 expensive trials this County's seen. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm looking at -- 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Court fees are going to 24 be horrendous. The first court-appointed attorney is not 25 even from Kerrville; he's from out of town, so every time 8-19-03 wk 173 1 he's involved, he's traveling. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I was looking at the -- 3 trying to figure out a budget number. I know it's going to 4 be hard to pick, but estimated actual for this year is 5 $100,000. We're budgeting the same next year, so I would 6 think we'd almost have to budget $100,000 plus; you know, 7 50, 75, 100 thousand for that one trial. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Wouldn't some of 9 those things that the Sheriff's pointing out come under 10 Court-Appointed Services, the line above? 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There's going to be some 12 psychiatric stuff in that, yes, sir. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And Special 14 Investigator? 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I guess that could, 16 probably. Now, the big difference is -- is in regular -- 17 and, Judge Tinley, correct me if I'm wrong. And under all 18 that House Bill and the Fair Defense stuff, this county 19 adopted some rules that normal court appointments on the 20 attorneys gets up to $75 an hour, okay, and it's decided by 21 the judge. That's on your normal court appointment defense. 22 On a capital case, that figure almost doubles per hour for 23 those attorneys. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: There's a different schedule. 25 Exactly what the numbers are, Sheriff, I don't know, but 8-19-03 wk 174 1 there is, under the defense plan that we have filed with -- 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The State somewhere. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't know whether it's 4 Office of Court Administration, Texas Department of Criminal 5 Justice, or one of those. We're required to annually 6 initially file a defense plan, both for adult and juvenile 7 cases, and then annually we have to update that plan. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: You guys didn't know I got 10 into all that wonderful stuff, did you? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. I'm so 12 impressed. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Bottom line, to me, is 14 that the categories that are likely to be affected by that 15 one-time trial, I think, all need to be adjusted up above 16 whatever is recommended, if they're not included in here 17 already. Because, I mean -- 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I agree. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- we're going to have 20 it -- the trial's due to start in January. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We're going to have 22 our head in the sand if we don't deal with it. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's going to be 24 expensive. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Will we be eligible 8-19-03 wk 175 1 for any recovery of -- of those funds under the current 2 statute? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: I -- I don't think so, except 4 as what may be available under Senate Bill 7 reimbursements, 5 and I don't think they finalized those figures yet, have 6 they, Tommy? 7 MR. TOMLINSON: Pardon? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Senate Bill 7 reimbursements 9 -- grants. Do we have any of those numbers yet? 10 MR. TOMLINSON: I think -- I think that it's 11 around $27,000, $28,000 per county. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tommy, could we put a 14 hundred thousand in the Special Trials line item, and then 15 transfer it to the County Court as we need during the year 16 to cover the trial? I mean, a hundred thousand -- I'm just 17 throwing that out. I have no idea what the cost of the 18 trial is going to be, 'cause it's going to affect everything 19 from -- 20 MR. TOMLINSON: It kind of depends on -- I 21 notice the -- you know, this year, the 198th Court didn't 22 use very much of their Court-Appointed Attorney line item. 23 I mean, relative to the -- you know, past years. So, some 24 of it depends on how the cases are assigned as to how much 25 money they're going to use. 8-19-03 wk 176 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 2 MR. TOMLINSON: I think you kind of have to 3 look at this line item as both courts combined. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I agree. I'm just 5 -- I mean, if you look at our -- the past couple of years, 6 though, we've been running $150,000 or so, I believe -- 87 7 and 52, $130,000 year-to-date for those. 8 MR. TOMLINSON: Look at the other -- look at 9 the other court. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's $52,000 -- 52 for 11 198th and 87 for 216th, and that was just year-to-date, 12 July 31st. So, we're approaching $150,000 in an average 13 year, and I think this is a -- that one trial is going to 14 definitely require money from somewhere. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Only thing I can tell you 16 gentlemen is, when I went over this budget request with the 17 court coordinator -- and Judge Ables was not available that 18 day, but Ms. Henderson was there and Judge Prohl was there, 19 and I went over both of these requests with them jointly. 20 Their request numbers are -- they're there. And -- but I 21 have -- I have the same concern you do, because it's -- I 22 think Murphy's law is going to -- going to really whack us 23 on that one. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, if I may say, the 25 one trial I think is definitely going to cost all of us. 8-19-03 wk 177 1 And the other thing that has to be kept in the back of our 2 minds, which I don't know, and none of us know, is we still 3 have another capital murder defendant on the loose that 4 could be arrested any day. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Have a what? 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Another capital murder 7 defendant on the loose that could be arrested at any time. 8 This county's going to face that. Now, if he gets 9 arrested -- if he's still in Mexico, gets arrested over 10 there, they're going to prosecute him; we're free. If he 11 gets arrested on this side of the border, that trial will 12 come up, another capital murder. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That we can't budget for; 14 that's just an unknown. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right, but that could 16 happen. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, I mean, it's pretty 18 clear that the one trial will take place this spring -- or 19 winter. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Commissioner, would 21 we help the situation if we improve that 401, 22 Court-Appointed Services, and take up those two potentials 23 that the Sheriff referenced a while ago, improve it there? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the easiest thing 25 is to put it in Special Trials and then dole it out where 8-19-03 wk 178 1 you need it during the year. And that way, it's kind of -- 2 that way, if -- we could even put Special Trials -- you 3 know, put "Capital Murder," so we know what it's for. And I 4 just think that, you know, it's wise for us to budget 5 enough, you know, and put another $50,000 in there. That 6 will -- you know, hopefully, we're a little bit -- you know, 7 we'll absorb a lot of it through court-appointed attorneys 8 that are currently budgeted, but we do have some extra 9 funds, 'cause you're going to be -- I mean, clearly, the 10 psychiatric part of it, the court-appointed services, $7,000 11 isn't going to be enough. Probably need $7,000 for each 12 evaluation, and, unfortunately, we're going to have to pay 13 for it. I just think this is one that we ought to -- 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I agree with you. I 15 think we need to do that. Who can give us the best advice 16 about how much we should put there? 17 MR. TOMLINSON: District Attorney can. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Your D.A. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Bruce. Tommy, can you 20 get with Bruce and get what -- what that trial may cost? 21 Just -- I mean, if it's enough in here, I'm happy. We'll -- 22 if the Judge thinks there's enough there -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't. All I can tell you 24 is that -- 25 MR. TOMLINSON: I mean, he would come in here 8-19-03 wk 179 1 having an idea, the Judge would, because he's -- he knows 2 who he's going to have to call in. And, I mean -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it would be 4 interesting if we could keep track of this one trial, too, 5 just from a future budget standpoint, as to what a capital 6 murder trial -- that's why I kind of like the idea of 7 putting it in a separate category; then do, you know, budget 8 amendments, put it where it needs to go, so we can kind of 9 track the one capital murder. Which, in my mind -- which 10 maybe doesn't work with your line -- or the way you have to 11 report things. But, to me -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, Tommy's going to 13 go talk to the D.A., and then we're going to revisit this 14 issue on Friday? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. Sounds good to 16 me. 17 MR. TOMLINSON: I'm not going to promise you 18 I can find the D.A. and talk to him. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well -- 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: He may have court here 21 tomorrow. 22 MR. TOMLINSON: I'm not going to be here 23 Thursday. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Thursday he'll have 25 court here. I can ask him, just for asking, if you want me 8-19-03 wk 180 1 to. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, someone get that 3 information. I mean, I can try, but y'all have a better 4 chance of tracking him down, probably, than me. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Is that all on the 6 District Court? There was one other item that was indicated 7 that we had omitted from the schedule -- actually, there 8 were two. One was Information Technology. The other one 9 was Library, which I believe Commissioner Williams had -- 10 had suggested. Is there any desire by the Court to take 11 those up now? Or -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, they were just 13 left -- they were left off the list on County-Sponsored 14 Activities, Judge. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And I forgot what 17 page that is. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Library is going to be -- it's 19 80. Page 80. 20 (Discussion off the record.) 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I went through that one. 22 Well, well, well, it's the same number as it was last year, 23 so they haven't increased it. Court just needs to give a 24 nod one way or the other. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's just such a 8-19-03 wk 181 1 large number. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It is a large number. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's kind of 4 reflective, to me, of the -- the internet usage going up. I 5 made a comment in here to one of you the other day; I did 6 some research on a subject, and within 30 minutes on the 7 internet, I had more answers and more information than I 8 could probably get in half a day trying to pick up books and 9 look through them. I do see where the library says that 10 their usage is actually up, but I wonder if that's usage for 11 traditional purposes, or if it's the things like coming in 12 and having your income tax forms filled out for you, things 13 like that, which is, you know, a good -- good public 14 service, but I'm not sure it's something the county 15 government should -- excuse me -- necessarily be funding. I 16 don't -- you all have dealt with this issue before. You 17 know it's a big number. Is there any way that it can be -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The problem, 19 Commissioner, is that we don't get that kind of a breakdown. 20 Your concerns are duly noted, and I've addressed this with 21 the Judge, that we don't get an opportunity to see exactly 22 what goes into the librarian's line item budget, you know, 23 per line item, or to adjust a particular one. You 24 referenced -- I wouldn't have a clue as to how he breaks 25 down the internet usage, or if he even keeps those kind of 8-19-03 wk 182 1 statistics. I really don't know. He does his business with 2 the assistant financial person in the City, and this is the 3 number, and that's the way they've been doing it. I guess 4 the only thing fortunate about this year is it hasn't 5 changed from last year or the year before. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Commissioner, are 7 you the liaison to the library? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 10 MS. SOVIL: Did they take out the money that 11 we funded for air-conditioners? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, that's out. It 13 was the elevators. 14 MS. SOVIL: Well -- 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In either case -- 16 MS. SOVIL: It has increased, then, right? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pardon? 18 MS. SOVIL: It did increase, then, that 19 amount of money. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. 21 MS. SOVIL: Budget didn't increase by that? 22 Those dollars were set aside for this purpose, and never 23 were included in the M and O budget. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Correct. He's 25 correct. 8-19-03 wk 183 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, it didn't inflate 2 the budget by that number. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: I believe that was the actual 4 question that was asked by you. Halfway through the 5 questioning, he responded by saying no, he didn't charge us 6 twice for the same thing. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He knew it was 8 coming. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's exactly right. 10 How about -- how about something like -- let's see, what -- 11 this year would be the third year with the same number? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It would appear that 13 way. '02 -- '01 and '02 was 397, and it's carried over, 14 yeah. '02-'03, second year. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What if we -- I mean, 16 it would be difficult, this late in the game, to decrease 17 it. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, it would. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just don't see how 20 we could do that. But I could see how we could possibly 21 freeze that number. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, that's not a 23 bad suggestion. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me just finish my 25 sentence. 8-19-03 wk 184 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sorry. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Freeze. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Freeze that number for 4 a period of time. Now, you've -- you already have -- let's 5 say five years. And you already have two; this would be the 6 third year. Two more years, and we're not -- City, we're 7 not paying you any more than this right here. I mean, 8 that's a -- that's an option. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: For whatever it's worth, 10 Commissioner, the City was put on notice back in -- April? 11 MS. SOVIL: May. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: May. The contract provides 13 that if -- essentially, we should jointly fund, in equal 14 fashion, the library operations, and if anybody wanted to 15 renegotiate the contract or there was something else they 16 didn't like, they -- they could give notice by a given date. 17 We gave notice to the City that we weren't particularly 18 happy with the contract; we wanted to negotiate it. And I 19 don't even remember hearing that word used when we had our 20 joint -- our joint session. It's as though they never got 21 the letter. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Maybe they didn't. But I -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What -- 8-19-03 wk 185 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- I think they did 2 acknowledge it, Judge, because we referenced the -- the 3 ideas that we've talked about before. There were two things 4 that distinctly disturbed me, and I hope other members of 5 the Court as well. One of them was how we appoint members 6 to that board, and secondly was this situation which we're 7 given a number and we're expected to swallow it without 8 knowing what's in it. And I like your idea to freeze it 9 until -- or at least until they acknowledge the fact that we 10 should be brought into the loop on the budgetary process, 11 when the budget is being developed, and not just given a 12 piece of scrap paper that says, by the way, here's the 13 number. 14 MS. SOVIL: They refused to give us numbers 15 until after they had worked it, 'cause I called and asked 16 for the breakdown. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm sorry? 18 MS. SOVIL: The City refused to give me a 19 breakdown of it until they had worked the numbers, and then 20 they would tell us what they would give us. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand. And 22 that, of course, is not what the contract says. 23 MS. SOVIL: Right. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I'm -- I'm 25 interested in the letter. First I've heard of a letter, I 8-19-03 wk 186 1 think. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Me, too. I think -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think -- I mean, 4 I'm kind of a little concerned about a letter going out 5 saying we're not going to follow a court order when the 6 Court didn't vote on it, I don't think. 7 MS. SOVIL: Yes, they did. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The Court voted on 9 sending a letter out, and we're going to -- 10 MS. SOVIL: Renegotiate the contract. It was 11 on the agenda. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm glad we did. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't mind doing it, 14 but I don't remember doing that. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm glad we did it; 16 good thing to do. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't remember -- 18 it was discussed if we had -- if any of us were involved in 19 liaisons to agencies where there was a contract involved and 20 we had any problems with that contract, to tell the Judge 21 what they were, and I did that. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Right. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: As liaison, they 24 haven't satisfied you that their costs are reasonable and 25 justified? 8-19-03 wk 187 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Except to say it's 2 the same as it was last year. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah, that's the 4 good news. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, that's the good 6 news. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd like a copy of the 8 letter that was sent out when I get blindsided on the street 9 about it, you know, 'cause I don't know which one went out. 10 But I think the bigger picture is what Commissioner 11 Nicholson brought up as to where this type of library is -- 12 what its role is in the future. Not in the next -- five 13 years freeze is fine, but I kind of share -- I think that 14 libraries are becoming -- 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: An anachronism. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, they're used -- 17 clearly, we want people to keep on reading, and books need 18 to be available, and that's good. But, you know, with the 19 internet and a lot of other things -- you know, maybe we 20 need to keep it the way it is. Maybe we can change it; I 21 don't know. But I think we need to look at it. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I think you're 23 right. But I think we have -- in Kerr County, particularly, 24 based on the type of library situation we have, we're faced 25 with -- we're going to be faced with the discussion about 8-19-03 wk 188 1 what to do with that facility and how to improve or enlarge 2 it, and what, if any, effect that's going to have on Kerr 3 County. I know that the City owns the building, so if they 4 want to put another story on it, I guess they can figure out 5 a way to fund it. But if and when they do that, that 6 increases the cost that Kerr County's going to be affected 7 somewhere down the line. So, I think you're right, we've 8 got to figure out what's going to happen in the future. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can build an Ag Barn 10 for that amount. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: As a matter of fact, they're 12 talking about -- there was a balcony area or -- 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: -- or another area that 15 they're talking about improving to enlarge the library. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In the back, 17 overlooking the river. It's an open balcony. That's the 18 way it was originally built on the second floor, and on the 19 first floor, it is an overhang. And they're talking about 20 encasing that second floor balcony to give some more 21 bookshelf space. I have no idea what the cost would be. In 22 the meantime, it is what the City told us it is, which, as 23 the Commissioner said, good news is it's not any worse than 24 it was last year. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Information Technology. 8-19-03 wk 189 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What page is that? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Page 8. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: This is the function 4 that we've got something in progress that might result in 5 outsourcing it? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. I did not recommend 7 any -- any expenditures for that item as a department, but 8 rather, on the following page, Page 9, Line Item 110, I 9 believe I recoded that to be Information System Maintenance 10 Contract Services, or something to that effect. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm sorry, Judge, 12 what line on what page? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: 110 on Page 9. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where are you? What -- 15 what's the heading on that page? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Nondepartmental. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, you plugged in 18 the number that -- that somebody might bid $45,000 to do 19 that? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: That's what I did. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's as good a 22 guess as any. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the RFP that we put out 24 asked them to bid on it on the basis of an hourly rate. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- 8-19-03 wk 190 1 JUDGE TINLEY: How many of those have been 2 picked up, Tommy? Zero? 3 (Mr. Tomlinson nodded.) 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Hmm, back to the 5 drawing board. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Well -- 7 MR. TOMLINSON: We only have one picked up 8 for anything. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do we have one out there 10 for utility -- I mean, like, plumbing and electrical and all 11 that stuff? 12 MR. TOMLINSON: We have one picked up. I put 13 the -- the calculator to this $45,000, and based on -- on 14 what we've paid vendors currently, you know, average price 15 per hour for what we pay a vendor now for computer problems 16 is mainly just from $60 up to $75 an hour. If you -- if a 17 bid comes in in that range, that -- the $45,000 equates to 18 12 hours a week. I -- am I right, Judge? I think -- 19 JUDGE TINLEY: 14 and a half at $60. 20 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. I'm basing any 21 contract on the last contract we had with vendors. And 22 three years ago, we had a contract with a local vendor where 23 they -- they've built some computers for us, and at the same 24 time, they -- they guaranteed an hourly rate to maintain 25 those computers. And their bid at that point was $65, and 8-19-03 wk 191 1 that's what we paid them. So, I just have doubts that we 2 can do it for 14 hours. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- 4 MR. TOMLINSON: From the time -- and based on 5 the experience I had with it when I -- when I did it, I know 6 it was more than 14 hours a week. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the -- you know, 8 we clearly need to change the way we're doing it, or did it 9 this past year. I like the idea of contracting, but that 10 may not be feasible. But I think from talking with Tommy 11 and comments and reports I've seen from Shaun, the biggest 12 problem is internet abuse by employees, and that takes -- 13 and I'm not sure if that has caused the current system to be 14 ineffective, or if the system would be ineffective even 15 without that problem. So -- I mean, so I'm a little bit 16 uncertain as to really which way I think we need to go, but 17 I do know -- I mean, I think we have pinpointed a huge 18 problem in the county; that's internet abuse. And I don't 19 know that -- I mean, enough about computers as to how to 20 stop that. We've talked about, you know, let -- well, it's 21 the department head's responsibility to solve that. Well, 22 conceptually, I agree. But, you know, they didn't do it the 23 first year, and I don't know, you know, what's going to make 24 me think they're going to do it this year. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, there's one 8-19-03 wk 192 1 office that's cleaned up their act. 2 MR. TOMLINSON: Actually, there are two. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just know about one. 4 MR. TOMLINSON: That I know of. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which one's that? 6 MR. TOMLINSON: I know of one office that 7 made the change; our calls have gone down considerably. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, if we can do it 9 voluntarily, that's the best of all, because it's a -- you 10 know, I mean, they're running their offices the way they 11 should. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Every organization's 13 had to deal with this, and -- and it's like any other 14 misconduct. You have a policy that says you can't do that, 15 and say what the consequences are going to be, and reinforce 16 them. I expect every organization of any size has had to 17 terminate employment of people that can't -- can't abide by 18 the policy. It gets worse than what we've seen. A lot of 19 organizations have to deal with downloading the pornography 20 and the worst kind -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We've had that. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's my understanding 24 that the County Clerk and the District Clerk both have just 25 cut off the internet access to the employees. 8-19-03 wk 193 1 JUDGE TINLEY: As a matter of directive to 2 the employees of that department? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Correct. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But not by taking it 5 off each individual computer? 6 MR. TOMLINSON: They haven't taken it off. 7 That's just their mandate, that doesn't happen. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You can rest assured 9 up here, if they're told not to do it, they're not going to 10 do it. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's right. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Would you? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just -- I think that -- 15 I mean, that one issue may solve a lot of the problem. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think it will, Jon. 17 I think it will. It'll -- 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It will help. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: According to his 20 records, that was his big problem. And not only the 21 problems to our system, but the problem of him getting from 22 Point A to Point B and being late to other offices and, you 23 know, everybody was yelling that, "He's not getting here. 24 He's not coming over here," 'cause he was putting out these 25 fires. And I think those fires have been eliminated. So, 8-19-03 wk 194 1 in my mind, I think the system's going to work better. I 2 mean, that's what it appears to me, anyway. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I think if we 4 cut it out or limit it or have only designated computers 5 that have it on it or whatever, we would cut out a lot of 6 those calls that he -- that he documented. And I agree, I 7 think that's part and parcel, a major part of the problem. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If we're not going 9 to -- 10 MR. TOMLINSON: Just like today, we had -- we 11 had a problem with -- with our virus server. It caused 12 some, I think, 9 or 10 individual computers in the system to 13 indicate that they had insufficient hard drive space. Well, 14 it came about through -- through the network. Well, 15 between -- Brad's been helping him today to try to fix it 16 today. Well, you know, we had 10 or 12 hours of -- man 17 hours in that problem, just -- just that problem, just 18 today, I mean. And so, I mean, that -- and, you know, if 19 you only fund -- if you only fund 14 hours, what are you 20 going to do if -- you know, the rest of the week? That's my 21 concern about -- about the amount of money. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the -- I mean, 23 the reason it came about was because of numerous complaints 24 throughout the county of the system we have in place right 25 now. And, you know, that I think is what -- let's look at 8-19-03 wk 195 1 another system, which was outsourcing it. And -- but if 2 we're not getting any interest in the outsourcing, even 3 picking up the RFQ, I think we need to look at this real 4 carefully. And we may not have that option. People don't 5 want to work for us, 'cause -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Which brings me to the 7 question, why did he request $600 in conference? 8 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, there -- about every 9 three years, The Software Group has a -- has a three-day 10 user's seminar where they invite all their -- all their 11 users to Plano. They go over, you know, new products, 12 maintenance of the systems, those kinds of things. I just 13 thought it would be, you know, valuable for someone in the 14 system to go to that. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. As much money 16 as we've spent with them, they need to send a jet down here 17 to get that person, though. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: My personal feeling 19 is, I think if we go -- even if we had RFQ responses or RFP 20 responses, whichever, I think we're going to find that we're 21 not helping ourselves in terms of what our annual 22 expenditure is, so I'd rather see us clean up our act here 23 and keep our staff together to do this stuff. I think we'll 24 be better served throughout our entire county system by 25 doing it ourselves. My question, however, to Tommy is, if 8-19-03 wk 196 1 we were to consider keeping the Information Technology 2 together the way it is today, that's a pretty sizable 3 increase that you've recommended. 4 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, at the time when I -- 5 when we did this budget, I wrote a memo on -- attached it to 6 that, that the increase was for discussion purposes. And -- 7 and at the time, we were discussing whether or not we wanted 8 to outsource or not, and -- and there was -- there was a 9 question whether or not we had a problem with the system or 10 if we needed additional man hours. So -- so, I added 11 $14,000, I believe -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 24. 13 MR. TOMLINSON: -- to the budget to either -- 14 to either hire outside people to -- to take up the slack, or 15 hire a part-time person. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Tommy, my 17 recollection of that discussion was it was focused more on 18 whether or not we had the right person. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, my -- I did a lot of 20 research on this, and I've -- you know, I visited with a lot 21 of -- you know, several other counties. I've questioned 22 counties like -- you know, one was Bastrop County. They're 23 the same size we are, and they have -- they have two -- 24 three full-time people in their I.T. department. Now, they 25 -- I talked to counties that have, you know, twice the 8-19-03 wk 197 1 budget we do, and -- and, you know, I talked -- you know, I 2 asked questions about, you know, whether they outsource or 3 not, what they paid their -- you know, their personnel, what 4 their lead personnel was paid. A lot of questions about, 5 you know, what -- how other counties were handling this 6 problem, and basically found out that -- that, you know, I 7 thought we were short in man hours. I mean, I know that in 8 Bandera, for instance -- I mean, I'm well aware of what goes 9 on down there. They have one person also, and they have 10 half as many users as we do. So, I mean, we have, like, 180 11 PCs, and not including all the peripheral equipment that 12 goes along with it. We probably have that many printers. 13 And so, I mean, it's almost physically impossible to -- for 14 one person to maintain 180 computers. And, I mean, I know 15 that the person in Bandera, one person, is trying to keep up 16 with 120 users. We have -- you know, we have 260 employees. 17 And that person works, you know, four and five overtime 18 hours a week. And so I know that one person can't keep up 19 with their county on a -- on a regular, you know, 40-hour 20 week. And I can -- you know, I can remember the -- the 21 hours that I spent when -- when I didn't have help, and we 22 were actually -- you know, we were hiring outside people. 23 At the time I did the budget, I just felt like that -- you 24 know, that we needed more man hours. Now, if we can clean 25 up our act as far as, you know, internet use and those kinds 8-19-03 wk 198 1 of problems 'cause of that, then maybe we can get by with 2 one person. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: As a follow-up to Commissioner 4 Nicholson's question, based upon his recollection of do we 5 have the right person, do you know where our Information 6 Specialist is or was today? 7 MR. TOMLINSON: He's right here. He was in 8 my office. We had a long conversation about the problem 9 with the system. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Of this particular virus 11 problem that we've got going on? 12 MR. TOMLINSON: Mm-hmm. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, he's here. I 15 talked with him. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else on Information 17 Technology? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that -- I mean, 19 really more of a -- well, I don't know. Not today. But I 20 will tomorrow. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: You will what tomorrow? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Have more to say about 23 it. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Should that, in a 25 future Commissioners Court meeting, be the subject of an 8-19-03 wk 199 1 executive session? Since we seem to be getting -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Bordering over on personnel. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Talking about 4 performance. 5 MS. SOVIL: Not your employee. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Hmm? 7 MS. SOVIL: Not your employee. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We talk about a personnel 9 matter in executive session. 10 MS. SOVIL: Huh? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Still talk about a 12 personnel matter in executive session. 13 MS. SOVIL: Not without advising the employee 14 so that he has an opportunity to take it into open session 15 if he so chooses. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, but that's not what 17 you said. You said he's not our employee. I mean -- 18 MS. SOVIL: Right. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But we can talk about any 20 employee. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just whose employee is 22 he? 23 MS. SOVIL: Tommy. 24 MR. TOMLINSON: Mine. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, don't yell; I 8-19-03 wk 200 1 just asked. Well, there's some tension in here. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 'Cause we don't like 3 working past 4 o'clock. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I know. Neither do I. 5 Let's go. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else, gentlemen? 7 We'll stand adjourned until in the morning, at 10 a.m. in 8 the morning. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Early. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ten? 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Glad you said that. 12 (Discussion off the record.) 13 (Budget Workshops concluded at 4:43 p.m.) 14 - - - - - - - - - - 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 8-19-03 wk 201 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 5 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 6 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 7 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 9th day of January, 8 2004. 9 10 11 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 12 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 13 Certified Shorthand Reporter 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 8-19-03 wk