1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Special Session 10 Monday, October 27, 2003 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 DAVE NICHOLSON, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X October 27, 2003 2 PAGE --- Visitors' Input...................................... 3 3 --- Commissioners' Comments.............................. 5 1.1 Review and approve 2003-2004 Kerr County Market 4 Days usage license, authorize County Judge to sign... 7 1.2 Special Holiday Market Day for December 20, 2003.... 16 5 1.3 Consider sending notice of termination of contract for inmate telephone system......................... 16 6 1.4 Contract for inmate telephone system................ -- 1.5 Scheduling and policy for Christmas Lighting........ 18 7 1.9 PUBLIC HEARING - Revision of plat, Lot 1, Village West Industrial Park, Pct. #4............... 51 8 1.10 Final revision of above plat........................ 52 1.6 Adopt Travel Voucher Form to clarify pay policy..... 54 9 1.7 Renewal of telephone contract for Road and Bridge... 55 1.8 Amend Court Order No. 28347 to change Lot 27, 10 Riverpark Estates to Lot 37, Riverpark Estates...... 58 1.11 Discuss administration of Kerr County Floodplain 11 program, establish appropriate procedures........... 59 1.12 Status of Environmental Health Department new office 12 space, possible location of temporary space....... 79,148 1.13 Transition schedule for transfer of OSSF Program 13 from UGRA to Environmental Health Department...... 82,154 1.14 Approve fee schedule for OSSF Program............... 94 14 1.15 Discuss process for hiring Environmental Health Department Personnel.............................. 97,155 15 1.16 Approve policy concerning authority of the Manager/ Field Representative of Kerr County Environmental 16 Health Department, redress of grievance process, and organizational relationship of Manager & staff 17 with Commissioners Court......................... 102,157 1.17 Approve order adopting Kerr County rules for OSSF, 18 authorize County Judge to submit proposed rules to T.C.E.Q. for approval & set public hearing......... 112 19 1.18 Discuss County appointments to Library Advisory Board.............................................. 118 20 1.19 Approve Merit Pay Policy to guide administration of the County's merit pay program.................. 125 21 1.20 Authorize American Legion Post 208 to utilize courthouse grounds/facilities for annual Veterans 22 Day ceremony....................................... 141 1.21 Approval of new lease with Mooney Airplane Company --- 23 1.22 Vote on behalf of Kerr County for Board of Directors of Kerr Central Appraisal District....... 146 24 1.23 Approve contracts between Kerr County and VFD's, authorize County Judge to sign..................... 147 25 4.1 Pay bills.......................................... 160 --- Adjourned.......................................... 178 3 1 On Monday, October 27, 2003, at 9 a.m., a special meeting 2 of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in the 3 Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville, 4 Texas, and the following proceedings were had in open court: 5 P R O C E E D I N G S 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning. I'd like to 7 call to order and welcome you to the special Commissioners 8 Court meeting scheduled for this date, Monday, October the 9 27th, 9 a.m. local time, meeting having been posted for this 10 time. Commissioner 1? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I believe it's -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is it my turn? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, it is. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If y'all would rise 16 and join me in a word of prayer, please? 17 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you very much. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you very much. At this 20 time, if there is any member of the public who wishes to be 21 heard to address the Court on any matter that is not listed 22 on the agenda, you're privileged to come forward at this 23 time. If you are here to be heard on any items which are on 24 the agenda, we would ask that you fill out a public 25 participation form. I have several of them up here already. 10-27-00 4 1 We ask that you do this so that we can hopefully not miss 2 you when that item comes up, and -- and secondly, so that we 3 can try and see where our time frame is. So, if you have -- 4 wish to be heard on any matter that is on the agenda, please 5 fill out one of these participation forms there at the back 6 of the room. But, with respect to items not listed on the 7 agenda, any member of the public that wishes to come forward 8 at this time, please feel privileged to do so. 9 MR. MURPHY: I'm Jim Murphy. I live at 203 10 Riverhill Boulevard in Kerrville. I was just talking 11 briefly to the Sheriff. Yesterday, I stopped at Neu-Mart 12 out at -- on 16, and it's in the -- I think it's in the 13 county at the New-Mart, the first one out there. Anyhow, 14 they have three of those eight-liners in there, and kids 15 were in there playing. I just thought maybe you might want 16 to know that. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: One comment I'll make on 19 that -- we'll check into that, but the way that law is 20 written, if they're not exchanged for money or they just 21 give prizes and that, that don't have a monetary value, 22 there's not anything illegal with them going, last A.G.'s 23 opinion. 24 MR. MURPHY: There's a sign there that says 25 18 years and under not allowed to play. 10-27-00 5 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We'll definitely check 2 that and see. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there anyone else who 4 wishes to be heard on a matter that is not on the agenda? 5 Seeing no one else to rise, we'll go to Commissioners' 6 comments. Commissioner Baldwin? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sir, I have no 8 comments today, at this time, this moment. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: At this moment? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But please leave it 11 open. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Commissioner 13 Williams? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, it's good to be 15 back. My wife and I got to drive through a portion of 16 America, about 4,000 miles worth, and that's a long time to 17 be driving, or behind -- be behind the wheel of an 18 automobile. In reading the minutes after I got back, I 19 noticed where you gentlemen have been extraordinarily busy 20 in my absence. I commend you for all that action; hope you 21 didn't get too tired carrying all those bricks. But it's 22 good to be back. Friday night, I had a chance to do a 23 little reality check in terms of our daily life. And 24 sometimes we forget what life is all about when we get on 25 the fast track and take care of our business and our 10-27-00 6 1 obligations, but Lew and I went over to Center Point for 2 Homecoming, and it really is super to participate and see 3 small town at its best rallying around its school and its 4 football team and its homecoming. That's really refreshing. 5 It gives you the opportunity to get your feet back on the 6 ground and know where you are and what you're doing and who 7 you're doing it for. That's it, Judge. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Could I ask you a 9 question? What was the score? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The score at halftime 11 was 69 to nothing. The score in the first seven seconds -- 12 14 seconds of the game was 14 to nothing. And Coach Kaiser 13 took -- took pity on the poor undermanned Leakey team and 14 put his -- the rest of his team in -- or scrubs in; second, 15 third, fourth, and fifth teamers or whatever he had, and 16 they only managed to score two more times for a total of 83. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that the way you 18 treat your neighbors? 83 to nothing? (Laughter.) 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, he had pity on 20 them second half. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Commissioner. 22 Commissioner Letz? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Since we're talking about 24 football, commendations also go to Comfort; I think the 25 score was 70-something to nothing. And Kerrville's was -- 10-27-00 7 1 48 to nothing? 48 to nothing. So, anyway, the area teams, 2 at least from here to the east, did very well. I can't -- 3 I'm not sure what Ingram did; I haven't seen the papers. No 4 other comments. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Nicholson? 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I attended the Young 7 Life Banquet and Fundraiser last night at Camp La Junta, and 8 I hope they raised a lot of money, but the point is that 9 it's very refreshing to see that we have so many good 10 teenagers, and so many teenagers that have good parents. 11 So, I'm -- I'm encouraged about our youth. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that all? Thank you, sir. 13 We'll move right into the agenda. The first item on the 14 agenda is to review and approve the 2003-'04 Kerr County 15 Market Days and Kerr County Farmer's Market usage license 16 agreement, and authorize the Judge to sign the same. 17 Ms. Anderson. 18 MS. ANDERSON: Judge, Commissioners, good 19 morning. Thank you again for giving me a chance to come 20 before you this morning, take a few minutes of your time. I 21 believe you have the information that I handed out. I'll 22 try not to repeat too many of those points, but I would like 23 to highlight a few items and then respond to any questions 24 that you might have. I'll start with a thank you. We thank 25 Kerr County for their continuing support. We thank each of 10-27-00 8 1 you who stop by to give us your advice and counsel; we value 2 that tremendously. Special thanks to your grounds people; 3 they have done an absolutely terrific job. Every time we 4 come here for the market, the grounds are just perfect. 5 Thank you for the new parking lot. We like it a whole lot; 6 we're mighty proud of it. And the biggest thank you of all 7 is to our community. People of this area continue to 8 support the market, both as vendors and customers, and it's 9 just a tremendous experience to be there, to meet folks, get 10 to visit with them, and just see a whole cross-section of 11 our community that comes out there on Market Day Saturdays, 12 and I consider it a tremendous privilege to be there and 13 have a part of it. 14 A few highlights from this past year. One of 15 the things that we tried, of course, was the new farmer's 16 market. It was not exactly a booming success, but we did 17 take a go at it, and we're committed to come back next year, 18 with your permission, and make another try at it, and hope 19 for a better growing season and more produce, as well as 20 more customers. Last year we ran the market for about 21 $3,000, came up $6 ahead at the end of the year. We were 22 very pleased with that, since it was totally out of 23 donations. Our budget for this year is approximately 24 $6,000, and the -- the increase there has gone entirely for 25 publicity, for some rental canopies to assist people who 10-27-00 9 1 just come occasionally and don't want to go out and spend 2 money to buy a canopy, and for printing supplies to do our 3 publicity. We now buy ads from all of our local newspapers, 4 including our new West Kerr Current. We're in our visitors' 5 guides. We're also listed on the Texas Highways magazine 6 web site as a place to go and something to do in south Texas 7 in the Hill Country, and we're very proud of that. 8 A big event that we'll have to close out this 9 year -- last year we did a Christmas basket drawing to make 10 up the last little bit of money to pay off all the bills at 11 the end of the year. That's where we got the $6 that we had 12 left over. This year we're going to do the Christmas basket 13 drawing made up entirely of donations from our vendors in 14 the market. They give us some of their product; we put them 15 in the baskets. We let people make donations in return for 16 an opportunity to win one of those baskets, and all proceeds 17 this year will go to Dietert Senior Center. They have been 18 most gracious to us and invited our vendors to use their 19 parking lot. They've been a constant assistance to us, and 20 so we'd like to say a "thank you" to them, and so the 21 proceeds this year of the Christmas basket give-away will 22 all go to Dietert Senior Center. Next year -- or this 23 year's request is a Christmas market -- special market off 24 the regular cycle. This has been requested by our vendors. 25 There's kind of a big gap between our last scheduled market 10-27-00 10 1 on December 13th and Christmas Day, so several of our 2 vendors have approached us and asked if it would be possible 3 to add one extra market. This would be on December 20th. 4 It would be a separate market -- a special market, so we're 5 here to ask for your permission to go forward with the 6 planning for that. 7 And the next item, I believe, is to ask for 8 permission to continue Kerr County Market Days for 2004. A 9 few minor changes for next year. Based on what we've 10 learned to-date, we would not have any markets in August 11 next year. It's hot, and it's real hot out on the parking 12 lot. It's hot for our vendors; it's hot for our customers. 13 Attendance was down, vendor participation was down a little 14 bit, so we're suggesting that next year there not be a 15 market in August. We're also suggesting that we continue 16 the market -- the farmer's market on the first, third, and 17 fifth Saturdays as long as there's produce available to 18 bring to market, and that the last market of 2004 also be a 19 special Christmas market. I believe that one next year 20 would fall on December 18th. And that is all written into 21 the request for approval for 2004. 22 As I said I'd try to be brief, one final 23 point I do want to highlight. It's something that has been 24 part of our intent from the very beginning, and something 25 that we're going to continue to work toward harder than 10-27-00 11 1 ever, with your approval, for the coming year, and that is 2 that we are the marketplace for quality goods in the Hill 3 Country when it comes to arts and crafts, originally-crafted 4 products. We do anticipate that next year's market will 5 begin to introduce a bit of a jury process for who is 6 admitted to the market. We have many, many applications. 7 We think it's time to begin to look at that type process and 8 to, through that process, control the types of items that 9 come into the market so that we don't have all furniture or 10 all jewelry or all fabric crafts; that we use that as a 11 means to increase both the quality and the variety of items 12 that we bring to our customers. We enjoy the market 13 tremendously. It is a great opportunity to be a part of 14 this community. We hope that our efforts meet with your 15 approval, and that we can continue to bring a quality event 16 here to our home in Kerr County. Happy to answer any 17 questions. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Any questions for Ms. Anderson 19 by any member of the Court? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Only question I had 21 was why the August drop-off, but I -- you explained that. 22 It is hot. Pretty simple. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ms. Anderson, a question 24 I have -- I don't know if you know the number or not. Do 25 you have any idea of what the average sales are of your 10-27-00 12 1 vendors at Market Days? 2 MS. ANDERSON: Commissioner, one of the -- to 3 me, the wonderful things about the market is that every 4 Saturday is different. We've had a Saturday where we had a 5 huge crowd here and most of our vendors sold very little. 6 We've had -- two weeks ago, we got rained out. We -- we all 7 looked like drowned rats by the time we got out of here that 8 day, and some people had a fabulous day. For individual 9 vendors, the sales go from very little on a given Saturday 10 to perhaps in the low four figures, so it is just -- it's -- 11 it's all over the board. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's -- I mean, if 13 they're low four figures, I mean, $1,000, $2,000, somewhere 14 in that range? 15 MS. ANDERSON: Right. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Pretty substantial just 17 for an individual vendor. 18 MS. ANDERSON: And some of those, you know, 19 when you have -- a vendor has a day like that, it generally 20 means that they have sold one large item, like a large, 21 hand-crafted, king-size bed, or a large, king-size, handmade 22 quilt, and those kinds of purchases push those numbers. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you maintain 24 attendance estimates for public participation estimates? 25 MS. ANDERSON: No, sir, we don't. We keep 10-27-00 13 1 track of our vendor participation, but I'm probably worse at 2 guessing crowd size than I am on predicting the future of a 3 market. So, we've guessed anywhere from 1,000 per Saturday 4 to 2,000, but that's just -- 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Seat-of-the-pants 6 guess. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: What -- where do you see the 8 various participants from out of town coming from, and 9 what's the source of their information that brings them 10 here? 11 MS. ANDERSON: I -- I would love to be able 12 to do a survey so I had a real, solid answer for that, but 13 we try to talk to as many people as we can throughout the 14 day. Of course, a lot of our customers are from right here 15 in this immediate area. We're getting a lot of people out 16 of San Antonio now, because we are listed in the weekend 17 guide in the San Antonio Express News. But I've talked to 18 people from Vancouver, from Atlanta, from Newport, all over 19 the entire country. Two weeks ago, we had some visitors 20 here from Bristol, England; I visited with them a little 21 bit. It's -- our reputation is beginning to grow, and we're 22 beginning to become a little better known outside of this 23 area, and hopefully all these folks go home and they tell 24 their friends, so they -- they're going to come and visit 25 next time they're in this part of the state of Texas. We do 10-27-00 14 1 know that more of our vendors are coming from farther away. 2 That means that they come here and they spend the night. 3 They drive down on Friday; they spend the night at one of 4 our local hotel/motels or at one of the R.V. parks, so they 5 buy meals, they buy gas, they buy supplies. They book a 6 room at the Holiday Inn Express. So we feel like that's 7 a -- kind of a ripple that comes from the particular 8 markets. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions for 10 Ms. Anderson? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I have a 12 motion. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Very good. Let's hear it. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move that we approve 15 the 2003-2004 Kerr County Market Days and Kerr County 16 Farmer's Market usage license -- which I appreciate, by the 17 way, having an agreement with us -- and authorize County 18 Judge to sign the same, as well as the 2003 and 2004 19 Christmas Market Day. Was there -- that was the only thing 20 that I remember seeing in there. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to 23 approve the agenda item. Any further questions or 24 discussion? 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let me just say that 10-27-00 15 1 I appreciate Mrs. -- Ms. Anderson's remarks about the 2 condition of the -- of the courthouse square. And, in fact, 3 I was thinking about this. You very seldom get comments 4 about those sort of things unless there's something wrong, 5 and the other day I was thinking about what a good job 6 Mr. Holekamp and his people do about keeping the inside of 7 the courthouse clean and neat. This is a pretty impressive 8 performance on their part, and I appreciate it. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with that. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think there's -- 11 it's appropriate to thank Ms. Anderson also for the way that 12 their group cleans up behind the Market Days; I've noticed 13 it, and I'm sure other Commissioners have noticed it, and we 14 do appreciate that. 15 MS. ANDERSON: Thank you. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: By way of explanation, the -- 17 the grounds crew that -- that comes down generally every 18 Thursday morning early and starts to ready the grounds for 19 the coming Market Days weekend is a group that I call "Bobby 20 and his merry men." That's Deputy Bobby Johnson and some 21 inmates from -- from the jail facility, and they do a very, 22 very good, bang-up job. That's who's responsible for it on 23 the outside. Of course, Ms. Anderson and her bunch leave 24 nothing behind. Everything they bring with them, they take, 25 and if they see any loose trash, they go ahead and clean 10-27-00 16 1 that up too, and we appreciate that. Any further question 2 or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 3 raising your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Thank you 8 very much, Ms. Anderson. 9 MS. ANDERSON: Thank you. Appreciate it. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: The next item is -- is 11 included; that's the consideration and discussion of the 12 special holiday market for the third Saturday of December. 13 That's included in the contract, so we need not consider 14 that further. Next item, consider and discuss sending 15 notice of termination of a contract for inmate telephone 16 system to Advanced Tel-Com Systems Corporation, doing 17 business as Kerrville Telephone Business Systems. The 18 Sheriff, I believe, is here on that item. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: At this time, both of 20 these -- I believe they're the next two items on there. I 21 don't want any action taken right now. The phone company 22 has decided they'd like to have a meeting with us at 23 3 o'clock this afternoon, but they're -- and because of 24 Paragraph 15 in the current contract, a lot of this may need 25 to be discussed in executive session and not -- not in open 10-27-00 17 1 court, but there are some, what I consider, very serious 2 problems and things not working correctly as they should, 3 and a lot of that on our current contract. So, I will be 4 bringing it back next time for determination and see what we 5 can do. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: A comment on -- you know, 7 it baffles me as to why a contract that is so lucrative to 8 vendors is so difficult for vendors to do. And not just 9 Kerrville Business Telephone. Our -- a prior company we had 10 a contract with, we had problems with them. I mean, these 11 people are making an absolute fortune off these contracts 12 and the rates they charge, and they can't do it. It just 13 amazes me. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: The only other comment that I 15 would make on this and the other agenda item was, there 16 appears to be no mutuality of remedies to both sides. There 17 appears to be remedies for one -- one party of the contract, 18 but not similar or the same remedies to another party to the 19 contract, and that always disturbs me when I don't see 20 mutuality. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I agree totally. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: But the Sheriff makes a point. 23 Under the one paragraph of the existing agreement, we have 24 an obligation to maintain confidentiality under certain 25 circumstances, and I'm not sure we're outside those 10-27-00 18 1 circumstances just yet. So, it's my understanding you're 2 asking that this, as well as the next item, be passed? 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Just be passed at this 4 time till the next court meeting. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Very good. We'll pass on Item 6 3, and Item 4 which was on the agenda will also be passed. 7 Next item on the agenda is the consideration and discussion 8 of scheduling and policy for the Christmas lighting. 9 Commissioner Baldwin. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, sir. Thank 11 you very much. I had received several phone calls -- 12 complaining phone calls about the Christmas decorations 13 going up too early on the courthouse lawn, and I think a 14 couple other Commissioners have received some as well. And 15 when -- I take that serious. When -- when I receive 16 complaints and they look to me as the one in charge -- and, 17 of course, the buck does stop here -- then I take that very 18 serious, and I feel like that something needs -- at least 19 needs to be addressed and something needs to be done about 20 it. And, by putting this on the agenda for discussion and 21 possible adoption of some thoughts, I'm certainly not taking 22 an adversarial position against Christmas or Christmas 23 lights or those that put them up. I just simply think that 24 we need to have some kind of plan in place. It's just good 25 business to do it that way. I wish we could get to a point 10-27-00 19 1 like we just discussed with the folks that just left here, 2 the Market Days people; you know, there's a five-page 3 agreement that we have adopted with them. And we may get to 4 that point with the Christmas lights; I don't know. Depends 5 on how far we get in this conversation. 6 But, in your -- in your packet, I have 7 included four thoughts that, in my opinion, needs to be 8 adopted and moved forward on, and certainly open for 9 discussion. One of -- the first one is Christmas lights 10 need to be put up no sooner than two weeks before 11 Thanksgiving, and that's for several reasons. I think 12 Thanksgiving or shortly after Thanksgiving is when we have 13 the Christmas tree lighting. Judge Ables and his beautiful 14 wife sing out in front of the courthouse, and Santa Claus 15 appears and all. And two weeks prior to that, seems to me 16 that is ample time to put up Christmas decorations. And, 17 you know, seems like to me we're kind of taking our focus 18 away from Thanksgiving now by doing the Christmas lights. 19 That's just my opinion. So, that's one, and so that's a 20 put-up date. And number two would be the tear-down date -- 21 that would be number three on your list. Require lights and 22 decorations to be down no later than the second weekend in 23 January. I don't think that we've ever had that problem, 24 but it would be kind of nice to have it in writing that we 25 all agree to that. 10-27-00 20 1 The third item is authorize the Maintenance 2 Supervisor to inspect and require removal of any inoperable, 3 malfunctioning, or unsafe decorations. In other words, give 4 permission to Mr. Holekamp from this Court to go out and 5 inspect all the decorations and to make sure that they're 6 operable and they're safe. If they're unsafe, he has the 7 authority then to deal with the issue as he sees fit. 8 Number four is for the decorating people to get 9 authorization from the Maintenance Department supervisor 10 before beginning any new construction, and what triggered 11 that thought are the new electrical lines, the ditch-digging 12 and the electrical lines that were buried out there two 13 weeks ago or so. Now, I understand that that has been in 14 the plan for a couple of years. Seems like year before 15 last, the committee came in and -- and gave us a plan of 16 what they were going to do, and that was probably in there, 17 but that was year before last. 18 I just see it as -- even though it was in the 19 plan, when you -- when you start a project like that, 20 particularly in digging ditches around this old courthouse, 21 where there is lines and pipes and things everywhere on the 22 square, it would just be wise for those men to go to our -- 23 our Maintenance Supervisor and say, "Hey, Glenn, we're going 24 to dig these ditches from here to here," just to be on the 25 safe side of -- and in case Glenn knows that there's 10-27-00 21 1 something else there that you need to be careful about or et 2 cetera, so forth. So, I just think it would be wise for 3 them to go to the Maintenance Supervisor and say, "This is 4 what we're going to do." Those are the four items that I 5 wanted to present to the Court today, and we can adopt them 6 and go on or we can discuss them, change them, add to, take 7 away, whatever you want to do. And if there's no comments, 8 I'm going to make a motion that we adopt this. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I have 10 comments, and there are several people -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're joking. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There are several 13 people -- people in the audience, I'm certain, have comments 14 also. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think the volunteer 17 group has worked very diligently and hard since the 18 inception to try and improve this whole process and to add 19 to the Christmas splendor of -- seasonal splendor of the 20 courthouse and its grounds. I was a tad surprised, as 21 probably a lot of people were, to see Santa Claus or the 22 giant snowman waving at me in the middle of October, and 23 that probably caught a lot of other people's attention. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where'd you see that, 25 Bill? 10-27-00 22 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He's out there. He's 2 waving at me. He waves at you, too, when you come in. He's 3 right out there. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Big snowman; he 6 hasn't melted yet. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Haven't seen him. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Anyhow, with regard 9 to your four points, I understand your concern, and I think 10 there's some things that probably need to be addressed, and 11 perhaps can be talked out and help in the future planning. 12 Putting up the Christmas lights no sooner than two weeks 13 before Thanksgiving, in my view, is a tad unrealistic. It 14 takes at least that long just to do the courthouse annex and 15 the courthouse in terms of stringing the verticals. That's 16 the most difficult part, and it takes at least that much 17 time, depending on how much community service and other 18 volunteer help is available. And two weeks before 19 Thanksgiving leaves no margin for inclement weather delays. 20 None whatsoever. If you start two weeks before Thanksgiving 21 and you've got a cold front come through here, and rain, and 22 you can't get up or you can't do the work, and therefore 23 you're not going to finish on time. 24 I think it's probably realistic that, in the 25 schedule of putting things up, that the courthouse verticals 10-27-00 23 1 and annex -- courthouse and annex verticals go up first, and 2 that could start as early as whatever, because it doesn't 3 disturb anything or anybody. And the folks are up there 4 working and they're on the ground, and the grounds 5 themselves are not encumbered by Santa Claus, reindeer, 6 snowmen and other things. So, that might be a consideration 7 that the Christmas tree folks could take a look at it. But 8 there is a whole lot of manpower that goes into this, not 9 only on the building and the annex, but in wrapping the 10 trees and decorating the lampposts and so forth, and I think 11 two weeks prior to Thanksgiving is not a realistic approach. 12 Now, also, we don't -- we turn these things on now before 13 Thanksgiving. And the reason we do that is because there is 14 now a Christmas light parade -- a darkness parade where all 15 the floats are lighted, and that is scheduled earlier, 16 because to do so later is in conflict with the big parade in 17 Comfort, and a lot of these folks go -- have their floats 18 and so forth in both places. They can't compete with the 19 Comfort one, so they moved it up. So, we're actually doing 20 it -- I think last year it was turned on before -- a week 21 before Thanksgiving weekend, and so forth and so on, and the 22 bank schedules its Christmas Santa Claus arrival, all that 23 stuff, at the same time. 24 In terms of authorizing the Maintenance 25 supervisor to inspect and remove -- and require removal of 10-27-00 24 1 any inoperable or malfunctioning items, I think that's 2 realistic. That's happened in the past. We had a 3 situation -- I think the Christmas lighting folks had a 4 situation once in which there was a short in a -- in one of 5 the decorations, and it was repaired and taken care of. And 6 certainly they, as well as we, don't want anybody to be 7 injured because of the Christmas decorations, so they take 8 extraordinary care in making certain that happens. I think 9 they try very diligently to get the lights down as 10 immediately after January 1st as possible. I'm not certain 11 whether we've had them down by the second weekend or not, 12 but there are others in the audience that can respond to 13 that. And, in terms of authorization from the Maintenance 14 Department supervisor before beginning any new construction, 15 I think that's realistic; it should happen. If it hasn't 16 happened or didn't happen, if it wasn't an oversight, it 17 should be -- it should be addressed. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: That's all you have? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Couple comments. I 20 really agree with both Commissioner Baldwin and Commissioner 21 Williams on this, for the large part. I think that it would 22 -- the best thing is probably to get a written agreement 23 similar to the license agreement we have for the fair, 24 because that way it's clear to everyone. I think that 25 the -- and I was one of the Commissioners that received two 10-27-00 25 1 amazingly, you know, hostile calls, I'll have to say, about 2 the decorations being up. But what I think -- you know, I 3 didn't really go into detail as to what they objected to, 4 but I think it was the large -- the snowman and the things 5 that -- you know, that looked Christmassy. I mean, you 6 know, it's all Christmassy, but the -- the yard pieces. And 7 that's, I think, the -- you know, I would -- I think two 8 weeks prior to Thanksgiving is a good time for those type 9 pieces, but I also have no problem with the -- the lights 10 that come down off the building, things that are in the 11 trees and other things being done in -- you know, based on a 12 schedule to get it done in a timely manner. 13 I don't know how long it takes, so I think 14 that's why we need an agreement so we can get feedback from 15 the lighting group to tell us what they need. But we need a 16 schedule as to what goes up when, because I think there is 17 some -- or a number of people in the community that object 18 to having it look as Christmassy as it does this early in 19 the year. So, I think there's a lot of things that can be 20 done, maybe rearranging some schedules and getting it, I 21 guess, clarified. I think the other items about 22 construction and Maintenance Supervisor's authority, I think 23 those go without saying, in my mind, but they should be 24 probably in agreement. And I think the other benefit to 25 having an agreement is, as members of the Court change and 10-27-00 26 1 things change, you know, the whole process -- everyone's 2 brought along at the same time so that everyone is aware of 3 what's going on and happy with it. Because y'all do a 4 tremendous amount of work in the community. I totally 5 support what y'all, as a group, do, but I think it's -- the 6 more coordination we can have, the better it is. So, I 7 think we need an agreement, but I think that -- you know, I 8 share some of Commissioner Williams' sentiments about time, 9 and some of Commissioner Baldwin's. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Nicholson, do you 11 have any thoughts or observations? 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't think I can 13 add any more to the discussion. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I might make one observation. 15 We heard just a moment ago about some very favorable 16 comments concerning the upkeep of the grounds. At this 17 stage of the year, grass is still growing, grounds are 18 looking nice, and it creates a problem in trying to keep the 19 grounds up. Some of the yard items, I believe that you had 20 mentioned, are out there. It makes it more difficult for 21 those people doing the grounds work to do that early on. 22 Now, after, of course, the first freeze, why, that tends to 23 change things a little bit, but that's certainly another 24 consideration that we need to keep in mind. Might cause 25 some damage to those items, doing that work. I don't know 10-27-00 27 1 about electrical cords, things of that nature, some other 2 considerations, but we need to kind of factor that in the 3 equation also. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One item that I did 5 forget to mention -- and I've talked to Glenn about it, and 6 I really don't know who's responsible to make sure it 7 happens, but several years ago -- and I think, actually, 8 General Schellhase had a lot to do with it, or may have done 9 a lot of it -- we had a plan where everything that's on the 10 courthouse square, everything that -- every tree, every 11 outlet is on that, a thorough plan so we knew where all of 12 the items were. And, with the new ditching that was done 13 with electrical lines, which was needed, we just need to 14 make sure that -- you know, to footnote where these things 15 are located so that, in the future, when we do something 16 elsewhere somewhere, plant a tree -- 'cause I think there 17 will be probably some trees planted on that outside area -- 18 that we know exactly where things are and we have a pretty 19 good base map, or we had one a year or so ago. We did it as 20 part of the overall courthouse renovation. We just need to 21 make sure that map gets updated. I don't know -- that's 22 probably, really, more a function of our Maintenance 23 Department, but it needs to be coordinated; you know, 24 ditching and things. I think any kind of permanent 25 improvement needs to be on that plan. And I mentioned that 10-27-00 28 1 to Glenn and he's aware of that, but we just need to figure 2 out how to make -- that needs to happen whenever we do 3 anything. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: We also had some members of 5 the public that wanted to address the Court concerning these 6 matters. Mr. Ray Lehman. 7 Honorable Judge, Commissioners, thank you for 8 this opportunity to address the courthouse lighting. 9 Commissioner Williams, thank you for your intelligent reply 10 to Commissioner Baldwin. Now, evidently, you people don't 11 know much about the lighting program, listening to you -- to 12 Commissioner Letz and Baldwin. You're aware that we have 13 the lines underground? We buried them. All right, I'll get 14 to that. But this program started on November 24th, 1994. 15 Couple guys, Jim Murphy, myself. No money, no volunteers, 16 no program. We were going to light the courthouse lawn. 17 Word got out, and the Women's Division of the Chamber of 18 Commerce came up with $1,000. By the end of that year, with 19 no committee, we had raised $43,246. There's a lot of 20 people that want this program. And we had support from the 21 City, City Hall; they bought lights from us. City Hall 22 Auditorium, Library, Harper came over and bought lights from 23 us. 24 And get this; the City of Fredericksburg 25 called us, a city official, "We need your help." The people 10-27-00 29 1 in Fredericksburg were calling their officials, saying, "Why 2 can't we do what Kerrville has done?" How about that? 3 "Could you sell us some lights so we can do a tree, and then 4 maybe come over and help us get ours started?" Which we 5 did. We bought a lot -- a couple hundred lights, gave them 6 to Fredericksburg. They wanted to pay us. Well, we can't 7 accept that. You know why, don't you? I'm sure you people 8 do. Because we had a warehouse fire here one time, and our 9 lights burned up. You remember that? We didn't ask for 10 help, but Fredericksburg -- our friends in Fredericksburg 11 came over and gave us lights. Now, can we take money from 12 them? No. We gave them the lights. Then they wanted help. 13 We made a trip and met with the Fredericksburg Parks 14 Department, and told them about our ditching. They liked 15 that. That's been done a long time ago, not recent, and now 16 our wires are now buried from pole to pole, tree to tree 17 underground. You may see some extension cords around the 18 displays, but they are protected; we have no wires running 19 across the ground. 20 When we started, I went to Johnson City; they 21 helped us. Went to Round Rock and over to Taylor, Texas. 22 Now, Taylor had one of the most attractive displays, but you 23 could not walk around the courthouse because they had 24 extension cords all over the place. They had the walks 25 marked off. You don't see that in Kerrville. So, Kerrville 10-27-00 30 1 is probably the best around here, and they are copying us 2 and getting our help. But we did help Fredericksburg. When 3 we got started, we turned on the lights and every tree was 4 covered with lights. We'll never do that again, 'cause we 5 had trucks all over that lawn and the -- and the ditches 6 that we dug, we really tore up the place. We knew we 7 wouldn't have to do it again, and the Commissioners Court 8 assured us we'd never do it again. We made a mess out of 9 that thing. And when this first load of lights came in, we 10 didn't have volunteers. There were two of us. 11 (Outside noise.) 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Those are the lights 13 going up, right, Ray? 14 Appreciate that. They're giving us a head 15 start. 16 MR. SCHELLHASE: Actually, they're coming 17 down. They ought to be up. 18 But we need volunteers. The truckload of the 19 lights came in, 340 cases, 700,000 lights. Who's going to 20 unload this truck? Buster -- Bud Barber and myself, four of 21 us got our wives, and we got our wives to unload that 22 18-wheeler over here and then carry them into Red Cross. 23 This is the background of the lighting committee. This has 24 all been done, and we had volunteers. Now, we still got a 25 lot of volunteers. The City is working with us. And you 10-27-00 31 1 mentioned two weeks. This thing could be done in two days, 2 providing the weather's good, providing we have volunteers. 3 We're not guaranteed either. You said October. We've 4 started in September. I have the work schedule. No one 5 complained then. I'm surprised you would bring to the 6 Commissioners Court a couple phone calls. Do they complain 7 about the churches? Walmart? Schreiner's? Of course they 8 don't. But they complain to us. 9 Okay, the report came in; you presented it to 10 us. I resent those phone calls. But I've never had a 11 complaint from anyone who has helped us hang lights or 12 donated money. So, we had the volunteers. Not enough. We 13 average 30 per weekend, and roughly a six-hour day; we get 14 here at 7:00. Some come 8:00 to 5:00, but say six hours a 15 day, 130, 180. That's a total of 740, 750 hours -- man 16 hours, 700 man hours. Do that in two days? You can't do 17 it. We need October. I was out here last Saturday; you cut 18 us off, but the weekend before that we were on the lawn 19 hanging lights. A car drove by, a lady with some kids; they 20 were so excited. "We heard you were down here putting up 21 the lights." The people in this town like to see it and 22 bringing their kids around to look. We aren't even hooked 23 up yet; they're coming to look at them. So, you see, this 24 is accepted by the city, by the people. We need this. And 25 we need more volunteers and we need your help. 10-27-00 32 1 As for the merchants, the Court should be 2 commended for Market Days. Good job. There's a little 3 friction there, maybe, 'cause we have to work around them. 4 But -- and I don't think we'll lose any. But, supposing 5 someone did get upset with us out there working. Suppose 6 they left. What's a couple hundred dollars lost revenue 7 when you compare it to our $18 million budget? So, think 8 about these things. We need help, not criticism. With 9 that, I'll turn it over to our chairman and hardest worker, 10 Walter Schellhase. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mr. Lehmann, before 12 you -- you said several things that -- that were 13 adversarial, as far as I'm concerned, but I'm not going to 14 address them. 15 Please do. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just -- the one thing 17 that I want to touch on with you is that -- that the Market 18 Days people are out there and you have to work around them? 19 They have to work around you. They're the ones with the 20 agreement. 21 Thank you. I'm glad you brought that up. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 23 Working around each other. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: That's exactly right. 25 They're making money. We're spending our 10-27-00 33 1 money to do this. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right. 3 Can't they bend a little bit? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right. I just 5 wanted to address that one issue. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have a comment also. 7 You know, I -- I am taken aback by your comments towards me. 8 I have been nothing but supportive of this program since it 9 began, and I believe I have voted every time to support 10 everything y'all have wanted to do. I have authorized 11 expenditure of County funds through our Maintenance 12 Department to assist you, and then you come up here and 13 criticize me for not being supportive and not thanking you 14 enough because of your -- you know, because you're 15 volunteering? I don't think -- I'll be quiet right here, 16 because you really touched a nerve, and I can not imagine 17 that you've come to this Court and criticized our actions 18 just by trying to make an agreement with your association. 19 I think you need to rethink, you know, what you're saying. 20 And I hope we don't do anything negative, because I think 21 being criticized, to me, is -- you hit some nerves, Ray. 22 All right. I'm glad I did, but I meant -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, you're glad you 24 did? And you also say that we shouldn't listen to the 25 citizens of this county that complain? I just disagree with 10-27-00 34 1 you. I listen to every constituent that I have, and I 2 expect everyone on this Court should do the same thing, and 3 for to you say that we shouldn't is appalling. 4 Thank you. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Lehman. 6 Thank you. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: We had one other speaker 8 signed up for this agenda item. Mr. Jim Murphy. 9 MR. MURPHY: That's all right, I'll do it 10 later, because all I wanted to say, if it's okay right now, 11 is that those ladies were the most cooperative that you 12 could find, as far as we're concerned. And that statement 13 that we were uncooperative or couldn't get together -- get 14 along together, that's not true. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Nobody said that. 16 MR. MURPHY: I'll speak later. The Market 17 Day ladies is who I'm talking about. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, did you want to -- do 19 you want to speak now? 20 MR. MURPHY: I want Walter to speak first, 21 please. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Schellhase? 23 MR. SCHELLHASE: Walter Schellhase, 529 Water 24 Street, president of the Kerrville Christmas Lighting 25 Corporation. The displays were set up Saturday a week ago, 10-27-00 35 1 because we had planned on stringing lights in the two main 2 buildings and we were told that we could not enter the 3 buildings because of flooring work being done, which really 4 wouldn't have affected us any whatsoever, but because we 5 were told that, we did not enter the building and chose to 6 start setting up displays. For the eight years that I've 7 been involved in this program, we've always started five 8 Saturdays before Thanksgiving, and it's not changed. We 9 were here five Saturdays ago last year and started setting 10 up, hanging lights on this building, and setting up 11 displays. It always takes us at least four days to get 12 everything out of the warehouse onto the buildings and set 13 up in the yard, and giving us one day to punch everything 14 out and make sure it's safe and hooked up and working. This 15 year, lights go on the 22nd of November. That's a week 16 before Thanksgiving. That's been the same for the eight 17 years that I've been involved in it. If the Court wants to 18 change that, there's no problem whatsoever. Just give us 19 the guidance and we'll try work within it. 20 Two Saturdays before Thanksgiving? Forget 21 it. There is no way it can be done. Now, Glenn is pulling 22 lights down off the roof right now, which are stored on the 23 roof because we hang them from the roof. Now, the fact that 24 no one from the lighting committee is involved in what Glenn 25 is doing today, all the lights are being brought down off of 10-27-00 36 1 the roof and will be strung from the ground, I guess, which 2 means all the plugs will be opposite and they won't work; 3 we'll wind up probably having to change them all. As for 4 the scheduling, the 18th was the first work day scheduled, 5 and it was scheduled in April of this year. It is included 6 on our agenda, of which Glenn is a member of, and 7 Commissioner Williams is aware of and receives the agenda. 8 We have a work schedule that is printed in the mailer that 9 we send out to the community that lists all of those work 10 days, and they also show them, which went to everyone in the 11 community and in west Kerr County. So, everyone sitting on 12 the Commissioners Court received a mailer in their telephone 13 bill listing all of those work days. If those were a 14 problem, it would have been nice had the lighting committee 15 known about it early enough, and we could have adjusted and 16 changed. 17 As for your phone calls, I've received 11 18 phone calls of people saying, "Great, the lights are going 19 on. Do you need any help? What day can I be made available 20 to assist?" So, for every one you've received, I'll 21 probably receive more offering to help, because they seen 22 the lights go up. Saturday a week ago, we had three 23 community service people that were assigned to us by the 24 court. How did they know that we needed people on the 18th 25 of October to start hanging lights? Someone must have 10-27-00 37 1 informed them. So, we had those people volunteering, and we 2 had to make use of them or turn them away. We had people 3 scheduled for the 25th, last Saturday. I believe Jim Murphy 4 came down here and sent them all back home, said we've been 5 denied use of the courthouse grounds for this day. Because 6 of the information I received, I canceled the work day for 7 the 25th and November the 1st, leaving us the 8th and the 8 15th. If anybody on this Court or in our committee thinks 9 that we can get those lights up on the 8th and the 15th, 10 they're kidding themselves. It won't be done unless we have 11 County help, like is working here today, of which we 12 don't -- weren't aware of. I wasn't aware that anyone was 13 doing any light work today. 14 Our work days are on Saturday, when we have 15 the community service people available. So, right now 16 you're in violation of the four items that Buster listed on 17 the proposed policy, because you're working prior to the two 18 Saturdays before Thanksgiving. Now, we need November the 19 1st back again. We need to have those volunteers down here. 20 We need to do all the work. Glenn can tell you right now, 21 there's no way to hang these two buildings on two Saturdays, 22 just those two alone. We've never done it in the past. 23 We're not going to do it in the future unless something 24 drastically happens and we have a lot more people. Now, if 25 we have the same people in jail that we had last year and we 10-27-00 38 1 get those people back, which I don't think we can do, 2 because we don't get a deputy because of the budget, so -- 3 our deputy has been cut, so therefore the jail people are 4 not available. And I think one of them had 24 months and 5 one of them had 18, so we have two educated guys out there 6 that we could have back if we had a deputy. 7 So, to have a policy, we have no problem. If 8 we sign an agreement, we have no policy -- no problem, and 9 we'll do them both, but they have to be realistic and you 10 have to understand what's involved. Now, for the 11 underground lighting, we presented to this Court in April 12 last year a proposal to do underground lighting to replace 13 all the light stub-ups that we have throughout the courtyard 14 -- grounds on the court, and put recessed boxes in the 15 ground so all the wiring would be underground and we would 16 have no outlets sticking up out of the ground. The Court 17 approved that plan, and you have copies of it, because we 18 made small copies and put it in your package. That first 19 run that's being made out there is part of that plan. We've 20 been discussing it since April, and it's been discussed at 21 every meeting we've had, which Glenn is invited to -- or is 22 a member of the group. And if there's a problem with it, it 23 should have been surfaced and someone should have told us 24 about it. Thank you. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: General, I have a 10-27-00 39 1 question. I mean, I'm not critical of the plan -- I mean, 2 of the lighting. I just think we need to get it on our 3 drawing, the electrical stuff. 4 MR. SCHELLHASE: It's on the drawing, yes. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean make sure that 6 Glenn has it in our permanent drawing of everything. I know 7 it's on the drawing y'all submitted. And I have no quarrel 8 at all with anything you said. I think I totally agree. 9 And -- you know, but at this -- you know, I think that we 10 need to have a schedule and an agreement, is all I've ever 11 said. I don't think we ought to have the yard pieces up at 12 the very beginning; I think put them up at the end. If it's 13 not possible to do it that way, you know, I'm willing to 14 listen to that. And I'm just -- you know, I just don't like 15 being criticized when we have County personnel helping you 16 do a project. 17 MR. SCHELLHASE: Only reason we have County 18 personnel helping right now is because this issue has been 19 put behind schedule. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The County helps you 21 every year. 22 MR. SCHELLHASE: They've never done this -- 23 never done what they're doing right now. We do it on 24 Saturdays with community service. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The County assists with 10-27-00 40 1 this program. 2 MR. SCHELLHASE: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If you don't think we do, 4 maybe I'm confused, but I believe the Maintenance 5 Department -- 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, the County does 7 assist, Commissioner, and there are occasions when County 8 personnel are used on Saturdays, and the corporation 9 compensates those themselves at time-and-a-half for their 10 efforts. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think it's the same 14 type of arrangement we have with Market Days. Our County 15 Maintenance staff helps and assists, and we authorize them 16 to. And, you know, I'm -- 17 MR. SCHELLHASE: But they've never worked 18 during the week. This has never been done before, what 19 you're doing right now, of which the lighting committee has 20 no knowledge of what's going on whatsoever. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Nor do I. I didn't 22 schedule it. I think -- I'm really -- I don't understand 23 what the controversy is. All we want -- all Commissioner 24 Baldwin presented was a schedule and an agreement, and you 25 agreed with that. 10-27-00 41 1 MR. SCHELLHASE: I say I have no problem with 2 it. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. So let's move 4 forward. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Murphy? 6 MR. MURPHY: I think the Sheriff wanted to 7 say something. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Go ahead. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: You signed up to speak, 10 Mr. Murphy. You're privileged to speak at this time. 11 MR. MURPHY: Jim Murphy, 203 Riverhill 12 Boulevard, Kerrville. It's not really a controversy. This 13 is not a controversy at all. You may think it's a 14 controversy. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It wasn't until I was 16 accused of doing stuff by Ray Lehman. 17 MR. MURPHY: That's between you and Ray 18 Lehman; that's not between the committee and you, or any of 19 these Commissioners here. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's good to hear. 21 MR. MURPHY: First thing is, to answer that 22 last discussion you had there, we paid County employees in 23 the past to come out here on Saturday. I don't know how 24 many or how much, but Glenn would know that more so than I 25 do. But I know how the -- all I want to say is this, very 10-27-00 42 1 shortly. Ray and I have been in this for eight years. 2 We've both been volunteers here around Kerrville for the 3 last 20 years -- 22 years or more. We just don't feel like 4 that -- we don't feel like that y'all came -- should have 5 come to us -- or we do feel like y'all should have come to 6 us and told us, discussed this with the committee before you 7 start shutting off Saturdays for us. We need those 8 Saturdays, whether you agree with me or not. We need all of 9 them. We've needed them from the word go, and we've needed 10 them and we'll need them next year if we're still allowed to 11 do this. So, all I'll say is, is I appreciate what you've 12 done in the past, and I'd like to see you give us back that 13 next Saturday. Thank you. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't -- you know, I 15 think the -- I can't speak for Commissioner Baldwin; 16 whenever I try, I usually get myself in trouble, but only 17 time we can discuss things is in court, as I think y'all are 18 aware, so we can't, you know, just -- we have to do it in 19 this forum. We don't have it -- by law, we don't have any 20 other choice. It's not always the best way to discuss any 21 topic, or some topics, but that's why it's on the agenda, is 22 because we can't just meet and huddle and discuss things. 23 MR. MURPHY: I believe two of you can meet 24 together, and two-on-two and two-on-two. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's against the law. 10-27-00 43 1 MR. MURPHY: What's against the law? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Sheriff? You have a comment? 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The only comment I have, 4 because I'll be honest; my kids grew up the last 10 years or 5 whatever watching these lights, and I think it's one of the 6 best things that the county has, getting the courthouse 7 well-lit. We get lots of comments about it. I know there's 8 a deal this year using inmates, and the only problem I had 9 with using inmates was on the weekend, because then I have 10 to pay overtime for an officer to come down here on the 11 weekend. But I don't mind at all; I think we have inmates 12 out there this morning helping get the lights strung, 13 that -- using inmates during the week and not on holidays, I 14 have no problem using inmates. Otherwise, it has to kind of 15 be community service, 'cause there is a big separation 16 there; they're not inmates that have to have a guard around 17 there. But, personally, November 1st sounds like a good day 18 to start, and if they'll let us help them during the week 19 with inmates, I have no problem, and maybe with five or six 20 inmates, we can get things done a lot quicker for y'all. 21 But I think it's a fabulous program. I don't see any kind 22 of controversy over it. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Sheriff. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I just have a wrap-up 25 comment, Judge, if you don't mind. 10-27-00 44 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm going to wrap it 2 up. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I'm not going 4 to wrap it up; I'll make a comment. I think it -- would it 5 be appropriate if -- if we did find a way to reduce to 6 writing a few topics that -- that memorialized our 7 understanding between the Court and the Christmas Lighting 8 Corporation as to what's expected and what they're going to 9 do? Some understanding of how it's going to take place and 10 so forth. And if I could be of assistance in helping to 11 develop that, I'll certainly lend myself to that task. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. I -- first 13 of all, bringing this to the table has really opened the 14 doors to what needs to be done and what shouldn't be done, 15 even though there's some feathers ruffled, and that's fine. 16 I never meant to address what's going on out there this 17 year. I wouldn't ask anybody to take the -- the decorations 18 that are out there now, I wouldn't ask them to take them 19 off. But I was speaking toward next year and future years. 20 So, in the meantime, I will get with the County Attorney and 21 we will draw up some kind of agreement. And I think that's 22 basically -- I've heard each one of you say that that's a 23 good idea, and I know it's a good idea from this table. 24 Just happen to know these guys, and we'll put together some 25 kind of agreement for next year and future years. Simple as 10-27-00 45 1 that. And I think it's been -- I think this discussion's 2 been very, very healthy. And, Ray, Commissioner Letz and I 3 understand what's going on here, okay? 4 MR. MURPHY: May I say one last thing? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I thought I was going 6 to get to close it out. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There is one other 8 point, one other topic. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm going to be the 10 last to speak on this thing. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm going to give you 12 that opportunity. Would you like to restore November 1 as a 13 work day for them? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know anything 15 about it. What's so funny? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't know that we've 17 ever taken any work days away. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know what 19 you're talking about. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't either. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Murphy, did you have one 22 last comment? 23 MR. MURPHY: One last thing is, we need those 24 two weeks in October. No matter what you want to come up 25 with on November the 1st, we need those two things, unless 10-27-00 46 1 you're going to guarantee us you're going to give us help 2 between November the 1st and the -- whatever the date is 3 that the lights need to be on by. We have to have a preview 4 of the lighting during the week prior to the 22nd. As an 5 example, this year -- usually we do on it a Thursday night. 6 So -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. I mean, when we 8 get the agreement together, that's something we need to 9 figure these things out as to what your timeline is exactly 10 and how it fits with the County's, and I don't think it will 11 be a problem. 12 MR. MURPHY: Thank you. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Holekamp, we've heard a 14 lot of discussion about your involvement or noninvolvement. 15 I think we need to hear your thoughts on this, 'cause you're 16 right in the middle of it. 17 MR. HOLEKAMP: Glenn Holekamp. Well, there's 18 several things that, this year, has been different. Last 19 year the schedule was October 19th, the bulbs were replaced 20 in a lot of the strings. The 27th, the lights and displays 21 were put up. That was in October. And November 2nd and 22 3rd, the lights were put on the courthouse and the annex on 23 those two days. Community service, which was supervised by 24 an employee of the 216th Probation Department, has 25 supervised in the last two or three years of putting the 10-27-00 47 1 lights on the courthouse, and -- annex and courthouse, and 2 last year it was done on November 2nd and 3rd. And then on 3 the 9th and 10th, we were here, finished up, and stood up 4 the tree and the fountain. 5 So, yes, there's a possibility that we have 6 started early in the past, but I don't think the displays 7 were put out on the courthouse yard early. One of the 8 problems this year with community service is -- is county 9 fair -- Kerr County Fair was one week later this year than 10 it was in years past, and in the past they have used the 11 community service crew for picking up trash and different 12 items at the county fairgrounds. So, that was this last 13 weekend; that's why there was no way we could use community 14 service. We only had one supervisor. Now, if the Justice 15 of the Peace, which I believe is the community service 16 workers that y'all said that were here, if they assign some 17 here, we don't normally control their scheduling or their 18 sign-outs or anything. That's their thing. But the adult 19 probationers who are supervised by -- by the community 20 service supervisor, they're scheduled, like, two to three 21 months in advance. This coming weekend, the reason why they 22 cannot be here is they are going to be at the Y.M.C.A. camp, 23 which has been scheduled for approximately three months. If 24 we -- I work closely with Dan Edwards, who is the supervisor 25 of that program for probation, and he's a very accommodating 10-27-00 48 1 fellow, but he needs to know in advance what days. They 2 work Saturdays and Sundays, so there's no reason why the -- 3 the supervisor, with his crew of anywhere from 12 to 15 4 community service workers, cannot put up lights on this 5 building in two days. 6 Now, the electrical plugging in, to make sure 7 everything is plugged in properly on these roofs, will 8 probably have to be done during the week, because normally 9 they don't have any electrical-type people on those crews, 10 and -- and the Sheriff said that they would be available to 11 use his people. I don't see a problem, because that -- it 12 takes time to do that properly, plus to be safe. I don't 13 have a problem with, this weekend, having someone here to 14 unlock it, the courthouse. The weekend that they were 15 talking about, we replaced all of the stairs in the 16 courthouse, those -- those rubber steps, and it would have 17 affected people walking on those steps that day; the glue 18 was wet. So -- and what -- what y'all saw today is inmates 19 were taking the light strings down, because they need to be 20 tested. Last year, they put up the lights; there were a 21 bunch of them out, and then it is impossible to change bulbs 22 halfway up the building. So, what I'm encouraging, if the 23 volunteers wish, they can plug them in their -- their area 24 downstairs and test these lights to see which ones need to 25 be replaced, which bulbs, which fixtures. That needs to be 10-27-00 49 1 done before -- and it -- we'll take them back up on the roof 2 to string them; that's not an issue. So, I -- you know, I 3 really think we're all looking at the same thing. And I 4 have not -- I had some health issues this year. That's the 5 reason I didn't make a lot of the meetings, and I apologize 6 to them, but I have not received any of the paperwork, the 7 schedules. None whatsoever. So, any questions of me? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Appreciate it. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Holekamp. I -- 10 MR. HOLEKAMP: But I have them scheduled -- I 11 apologize, I didn't make this clear. I have them scheduled 12 here at the courthouse on the community service the 8th, the 13 9th, and the 16th. That will -- and then the 20 -- let's 14 see. And the 22nd is the day of the lighting; is that 15 correct? 16 MR. MURPHY: Yes. 17 MR. HOLEKAMP: So it's three full days, and 18 that's even considering a rain-out. We should be able to 19 get the lights up and get them tested during the week, if -- 20 right now, I'm in the middle of a construction project, as 21 this Court well knows, that I really don't have a surplus of 22 people, but we will make it work, I promise you. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Holekamp. I 24 think that points out a larger -- this whole discussion 25 points out a larger issue relative to a policy concerning 10-27-00 50 1 the use of courthouse facilities and courthouse grounds, a 2 matter that has been before the Court recently. And, with 3 respect to this particular issue, it appears to be the 4 thinking, on the one hand, that if a schedule is published, 5 it becomes the obligation of the Court to -- to countermand 6 it. Or, on the other hand -- maybe there's a feeling on the 7 other hand that there needs to be a schedule presented for 8 approval in advance of the proposed schedule being 9 formalized. So, it appears to me where we are is that, with 10 respect to this particular issue, that there's going to be 11 an effort made to try and reduce to writing an agreement 12 specifically concerning the courthouse lighting issue, and 13 the various checks and balances and the scheduling and -- 14 and matters in relation to it. Is that your understanding, 15 Commissioner Baldwin? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's 100 percent 17 correct, Judge. Thank you. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: If we have no motion to be 19 offered on this item, we'll move on. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a timed item at 22 10 a.m., and that being a public hearing. So, at this time, 23 the Court will recess from the special Commissioners Court 24 meeting, and at this time I will convene a public hearing 25 for the revision of a plat on Lot 1, Village West Industrial 10-27-00 51 1 Park. 2 (The regular Commissioners Court meeting was closed at 10:07 a.m., and a public hearing 3 was held in open court, as follows:) 4 P U B L I C H E A R I N G 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Nicholson? You 6 placed this on the agenda. Who did you want to present this 7 matter? 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Mr. Johnston. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. If there is any 10 member of the public that has any question or wishes to be 11 heard in connection with the public hearing for the revision 12 of the plat of Lot 1, Village West Industrial Park, located 13 in Precinct 4 of Kerr County, they'll -- they may come 14 forward at this time and offer their thoughts or ideas. Is 15 there any member of the public? Yes, sir? Please come 16 forward and state your name and your address so that the 17 court reporter may take it down, and then you're privileged 18 to speak, sir. 19 MR. DIETZEL: My name is Victor Dietzel, and 20 I own Lot 4 in the said subdivision here that we're talking 21 about. My only concern about this is, will there be any 22 effect -- any changes on the plat concerning my lot? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: The only answer I can give 24 you, Mr. Dietzel, is that, apparently, since the -- the 25 revision of the plat only applies to Lot 1, without your 10-27-00 52 1 joinder, I don't see how it can. 2 MR. DIETZEL: Well, I didn't either, but you 3 sent me a letter. I showed up to make sure. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: That's a legal requirement, 5 that you be notified if you're within a certain distance. 6 MR. JOHNSTON: You're lot -- which one? 7 MR. DIETZEL: 4. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Can you find Lot 4 9 on here? 10 MR. DIETZEL: What you've got here -- no, it 11 is not adjacent to it. 12 MR. JOHNSTON: There's no change. 13 MR. DIETZEL: Okay. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there any other member of 15 the public that wishes to be heard in connection with this 16 item? There being none, I will close the public hearing, 17 and I will reconvene the special Commissioners Court meeting 18 scheduled for this date. 19 (The public hearing was concluded at 10:09 a.m., and the regular Commissioners Court 20 meeting was reopened.) 21 - - - - - - - - - - 22 JUDGE TINLEY: And we will move to Item 10, 23 which is consideration of the final revision of a plat for 24 Lot 1, Village West Industrial Park i Precinct 4. 25 Mr. Johnston? 10-27-00 53 1 MR. JOHNSTON: I think we're ready to -- I 2 think all of the signatures have been placed on the mylar 3 except myself and the Judge. I think it's ready to be 4 finalized. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's -- Frank? 6 There's a community water system on this? 7 MR. JOHNSTON: There is, yes. 8 MR. VOELKEL: I'll make one comment, too, 9 just -- I know you guys are already aware of this. This was 10 an extraterritorial property plat, so we have already been 11 to the City of Kerrville on October the 9th; they had a 12 public hearing and approved the plat. So, the City of 13 Kerrville is behind this. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I move that we 15 approve the final revision of plat for Lot 1, Village West 16 Industrial Park, and proceed forward. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that 19 the Court approve the final revision of a plat for Lot 1, 20 Village West Industrial Park in Precinct 4. Any questions 21 or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 22 raising your right hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 10-27-00 54 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. The next 2 item on the agenda is a consideration and discussion of 3 adoption of a travel voucher form to clarify the pay policy 4 for out-of-county travel. Commissioner Baldwin? I believe 5 you asked that this be placed -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This has come back 7 from previous meetings, and it's simply adopting the travel 8 voucher for our new program. And I move that we adopt the 9 travel voucher form for the pay policy for out-of-town -- 10 out-of-county travel. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion is made and seconded 13 that the Court adopt the travel voucher form to clarify pay 14 policy for out-of-county travel. Any further questions or 15 discussion? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I'd like to 17 make a comment that, although this is important, this is not 18 the important part of the whole machine, in my opinion. I 19 still think that to have it down in writing, the steps and 20 the process which County employees would go through in order 21 to make this travel voucher work, needs to be done, and I 22 will be back at a later time with that. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 24 discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion, 25 signify by raising your right hand. 10-27-00 55 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Next item 5 on this agenda is consideration of the renewal of telephone 6 contract for Road and Bridge, and approve the County Judge 7 to sign the contract. Mr. Johnston? 8 MR. JOHNSTON: We have a new contract, I 9 think, before you, which is about half of what the current 10 contract is. We presently pay $151 a month for the 11 equipment, and it will be reduced to $80 a month. And it's 12 a five-year contract, and at the end of that time, we own 13 the equipment. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Same system? 15 MR. JOHNSTON: Same system. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what you want 18 to do? 19 (Mr. Johnston nodded.) 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that 22 the Court approve the renewal of a telephone contract for 23 Road and Bridge and authorize County Judge to sign the same. 24 Any further question or discussion? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. In light of the -- 10-27-00 56 1 I believe this is with the same entity as the jail system, 2 the Kerrville Telephone Business Systems. And, in light of 3 that, and in light of that contract and some of the terms 4 that -- I may not be real happy with this at this point. I 5 just want to make sure this is reviewed by the County 6 Attorney prior to approval. 7 MR. JOHNSTON: We agree with that. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I want to make sure the 9 County has an out if they don't perform. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with that. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No problem. I would 12 revise the motion to approve it upon -- upon concurrence of 13 the County Attorney. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And the second. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or 16 discussion? 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I like what's 18 happened here, I think, as long as the County Attorney likes 19 it. And there are probably other opportunities to make 20 similar savings in the way we do business, and I encourage 21 all of our department heads and elected officials to find 22 them and -- and bring them to our attention. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or 24 comments on the motion? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One more comment. 10-27-00 57 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that is just that 3 the -- the term -- I believe it's three years? 4 MR. JOHNSTON: The term is five years. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Five years on the new 6 contract? And I'm wondering -- this is just a thought. I'm 7 not going to vote against it because of this, but I'm 8 wondering if five years isn't too long a term in the 9 telecommunication industry. I think one of the reasons it's 10 likely that the price is going down in this one is because 11 of the -- the industry has come down, not the fact that the 12 County did a great job in negotiating here. I think it's 13 just that things change, and five years in technology is a 14 very long time for a contract, and, I -- you know, I would 15 -- you know, if it's possible to get a shorter term, or -- 16 you know, because of that technology issue, I wonder if five 17 years isn't too long. Just a comment. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Was the original 19 lease? Five years? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I believe so. 21 MR. JOHNSTON: I believe it was. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The term of that lease 23 isn't up yet. It's been -- you know, I don't believe. 24 MR. JOHNSTON: I don't know what the date of 25 transfer -- it's probably on here. 10-27-00 58 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just think that it's -- 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If you shorten the 3 lease, the dollar figure might change. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 5 MR. JOHNSTON: Yeah, I think it goes up a 6 little bit if we shorten the lease. I think there's an 7 option there, or they did talk to us about that. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just think that, you 9 know, the -- the term becomes an issue in technology. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: I think that's a good point. 12 The advancements in the industry and the highly competitive 13 aspects of the industry, I think that's certainly a 14 consideration. I assume that Road and Bridge people looked 15 at some of those aspects when they were reviewing this thing 16 before they brought it to Court. But any further questions 17 or comments concerning the motion? If not, all in favor of 18 the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Next item 23 is the consideration and discussion of amending Court Order 24 Number 28347, change Lot 27, Riverpark Estates, to Lot 37, 25 Riverpark Estates. Was that just a misnomer that we -- 10-27-00 59 1 MR. JOHNSTON: This was only a typo in the 2 court order. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move we correct the 5 Court Order 28347, change Lot 27 to Lot 37, Riverpark 6 Estates. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 9 approval of the agenda item. Any further questions or 10 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 11 your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. The next 16 item on the agenda is Item 11, consideration and discussion 17 of the administration of the Kerr County Floodplain Program, 18 and establishing appropriate procedures in connection with 19 the same. Commissioner Letz? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I put this on the agenda 21 based on our discussion at our last meeting, that we voted 22 to move Floodplain into the Road and Bridge -- or Floodplain 23 administration to the Road and Bridge Department. And -- 24 but we really had not talked about it in great depth. And 25 part of that motion was because of the time crunch we're 10-27-00 60 1 under, based on the contract with U.G.R.A. being canceled. 2 And I really referred this and talked to Frank a little bit 3 about it, asked him to do some research to make sure that 4 Road and Bridge thinks it's a good fit out there. And also 5 to do little bit of research as to what we need to do, both 6 budget-wise and just what -- procedure-wise to get that 7 department up and -- or that administration of that program 8 up and running so we don't have any lapses. And, Frank, I 9 don't know if you've had time to do a whole lot of research 10 on it, but appreciate hearing what you do have. 11 MR. JOHNSTON: I think the duties of the 12 Floodplain Administrator are pretty obvious; they're spelled 13 out in the County Flood Prevention Order, so that's -- we 14 know what the duties are. The transition is what we were 15 looking at. I think it will work fine with Road and Bridge 16 Department. It's just a question of, you know, jumping into 17 this cold, the transfer one day to the next. I think it's 18 all about November sometime. But, you know, we need to have 19 a little -- hit the road running, not just dump it on us 20 and, you know, try to make it work. I think the first step 21 would be to -- for myself doing that position, would be to 22 become certified in it. There's a training course to 23 certify, and I'll get into that later. I guess we need to 24 understand exactly what U.G.R.A.'s going to turn back over 25 to us. I talked with Stuart last week. They have lots of 10-27-00 61 1 maps and documents and computer software, and -- and 2 information on -- on flooding. I don't know if they're 3 going to transfer all that over to us, or we have to go out 4 and repurchase all that. We need to understand what that -- 5 what we're getting, 'cause I think that would be an 6 important database we have to have. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think all the maps are 8 coming over. Any of the -- any -- I mean, really, it's not 9 that big -- talking with Stuart, it's just basically a table 10 full of maps, and I think those we get. As Frank mentioned, 11 they have some software that they utilize, I guess, on 12 topography or CAD. 13 MR. JOHNSTON: I think a lot of it's from 14 KCAD. Stuart was showing me how it's operated. I think 15 probably we can get some -- that information from them, and 16 they could probably show us how to use it. That's something 17 we don't currently do, so we would have to come up to speed 18 on that. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If there are any licenses 20 required or some information we can use, I think refer that 21 to Shaun. If you can just work with Shaun, figure out 22 exactly what we need, software/hardware-wise, to be able to 23 do the job, and bring it back at our next court, or maybe 24 even have it at this Court if you have -- if Shaun's had 25 time to look at it, and maybe we'll take action on most of 10-27-00 62 1 these items today. 2 MR. JOHNSTON: As far as training, I don't 3 know what Stuart's -- you know, what his plans are, what 4 he's going to be doing, but I thought maybe if the County 5 could contract with him for a short period of time to do a 6 little O.J.T. for a week or something to kind of go over all 7 this stuff, make sure we understand the scope of all of it. 8 It may entail an additional clerk to keep -- I know it's one 9 of the duties to keep all the records current, keep them all 10 open to the public. May need someone to keep up with the -- 11 you know, the records. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: This would probably 13 be a good place to talk about the level of activity on 14 floodplain administration. On the August report, the 15 year-to-date number of floodplain determinations made was 16 17. I think it was the same for -- same for July -- yeah. 17 So, we could project that there's somewhere on the order of 18 20 floodplain determinations made a year. The -- the 19 proposed need for an extra clerical person and the proposed 20 amount of time that the County Engineer would spend on this 21 one, I can't rationalize with -- with the few -- with the 22 small amount of activity on floodplain administration. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the -- I mean, 24 and I don't know. And I -- I see Stuart in the audience. 25 MR. JOHNSTON: Stuart needs to address that. 10-27-00 63 1 I think he said he worked 10 hours a week or something on 2 that, not including clerical stuff, just what he does. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- Stuart, you 4 weren't even really asked to be here on this point, but are 5 you comfortable answering some of this? You keep track of 6 our determinations, but are there other things you do 7 outside of the determinations? 8 MR. BARRON: Yes, sir. I'm -- the 10 hours 9 that I talked to Franklin about was not just determinations. 10 That's hours on the phone, just talking to people. The 11 determinations are usually after three or four contacts with 12 the individual, trying to determine where their -- where 13 they live, if they do live in the floodplain, and where 14 they're going to build on the piece of property. So, 15 usually that takes two or three visits with them before 16 they'll come in, sit across the desk from me, and we pull it 17 up on the computer. So, there's a lot more time than what 18 the paperwork will reflect as to what you're spending there. 19 You're not getting credit for much -- for much actual work, 20 but you're dealing with the people on a pretty regular 21 basis. As far as keeping track of the -- of the files, the 22 paperwork starts when you do the determination, and so 23 there's not a lot of paperwork to do. It's a lot of 24 reviewing and things like that, taking applications, process 25 the fees. There's -- Tish and Judy do that for me. 10-27-00 64 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: In the -- when there is a 2 flood event like we had -- two years ago, right? Two years 3 ago in July. 4 MR. BARRON: Yes. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How much -- what happens 6 then? What do you do? What are, I guess, the obligations 7 of the Floodplain Administrator after a flood? 8 MR. BARRON: It's going to depend on the type 9 of flood that you have. Like, that one was actually 10 declared a disaster, and so there was a lot of time that was 11 -- that it took to go out and research everything and find 12 out where the homes were. I talked to Franklin. Road and 13 Bridge -- I did contact them to find out where the majority 14 of the flooding in the county occurred, went out and found 15 the houses that had been flooded, tagged them, told them 16 they could not rebuild their houses till they come in and 17 talk to me and see how much damage they've had in the house, 18 scheduled a time to go out and look at them and see if it 19 was substantially damaged or just partially damaged. And if 20 it's substantially damaged, they cannot rebuild in the same 21 location without elevating it or flood-proofing their house 22 some way. If it's less than substantially damaged, they can 23 go ahead and build back right where they're at. And, so, 24 there is a lot of time, depending on the kind of flood that 25 you have. And if we have a 100-year flood here in Kerr 10-27-00 65 1 County, it -- you'll probably need three or four more 2 people's help. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Stuart, your floodplain 4 determinations, counting the preliminary telephone 5 conversations and then the visit across the table and 6 working on the apps and so forth, on an average case, what 7 would be the total time that you would spend in making such 8 a determination in the average case, counting all these 9 preliminary contacts and so forth? 10 MR. BARRON: Usually, when they come in the 11 office, I tell them to give themselves about 45 minutes to 12 an hour. It gives them a little time to fill out the 13 application while I'm doing my research, finding out the 14 elevation. Then it's going to depend on the individual, how 15 -- how many times they feel like they need to contact me and 16 ask me questions. So, at the most, two hours, probably, I 17 would say. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. From start to finish, 19 including the initial telephone contact and -- 20 MR. BARRON: I think so, yes. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: -- informal, two to three 22 hours, would you think? 23 MR. BARRON: There's a lot of them that come 24 in that -- that end up never getting a determination; just 25 are they within a floodplain or not? They're just not sure. 10-27-00 66 1 All I do, I look on a computer and say, "No, this particular 2 lot does not have a floodplain on it." 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 4 MR. BARRON: That doesn't cost them anything, 5 and they don't have to come into the office for that. 6 Depending on what the setup on my computer is, that may take 7 15 minutes. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 9 MR. BARRON: If I've got to start my 10 computer, it may take a little longer, but -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: In terms of ratio, how many -- 12 how many of the contacts that you make result in actual 13 determination, formal determination, versus just preliminary 14 checks and you do a quick check and say, no, that's not in, 15 or yeah, that definitely is in, and you're going to have to 16 raise it up 60 feet to build or whatever? 17 MR. BARRON: Probably about a third of them 18 get an actual determination, a clear -- 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. And those run 15 to 30 20 minutes, generally? 21 MR. BARRON: To determine -- yeah, the ones 22 that -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: The informal ones. 24 MR. BARRON: Yes, sir. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 10-27-00 67 1 MR. BARRON: Usually that can be done over 2 the phone. They just need to know if they're in or out. If 3 any part of it's in the floodplain, I make them come into 4 the office to show me where they're going to build on their 5 lot. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a question of 8 Stuart while he's still standing, Judge. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: While we're on this 11 particular topic, in terms of the amount of time, how much 12 support time is involved -- administrative support time is 13 involved, on an average? Case average? 14 MR. BARRON: I would spay Tish probably 15 spends about 15 minutes with the individual while I'm in 16 there doing the determination. She reviews the application 17 that they fill out, makes sure they have all their 18 information, and accepts their fees. That sound right? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No follow-up after 20 the meeting? No document follow-up? 21 MR. BARRON: It depends -- that's just for 22 the determination. We haven't got to the permit part yet. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, okay. Not the 24 good part. 25 MR. BARRON: Just kind of letting y'all know. 10-27-00 68 1 And, if y'all like, we can discuss that also. This is just 2 to see where their house is, and then we determine -- 3 through the determination process, I tell them how many feet 4 above the stream bed or what the elevation's going to be of 5 the 100-year flood. They go out there, they hire a 6 surveyor -- would y'all like me to talk in the microphone? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably better. 8 MR. BARRON: Then they'll go out and do a 9 survey, determine actually how high that house is, and 10 subtract the difference from my elevation -- my 11 determination to where their house site is going to be. 12 That will determine if they need a floodplain permit. If 13 they're going to build below my number, they need a permit. 14 That's when -- that's when a lot of the paperwork -- that's 15 when the serious paperwork begins. The determinations are 16 fairly easy. I try to talk the individual into building 17 above that. If they build above that number, then they're 18 out of the 100-year floodplain. If they say no -- we have 19 one out of Hunt right now that wants to build below the 20 floodplain, and there's not a lot they can do. If they want 21 to build below the floodplain, it's really difficult. If 22 they -- if they want -- then there's -- inside the 23 floodplain, there's two delineations; you have "floodway" 24 and "flood fringe." If you want to build in the flood 25 fringe, it's easier than building in the floodway. Flood 10-27-00 69 1 fringe is the -- if you're standing on a bridge looking at a 2 flooded river, the stuff out in the middle that's really 3 coursing by at a high rate of speed, that's the floodway. 4 The water at your feet on both sides is called the flood 5 fringe, where it's kind of just ponding; it's not really 6 flowing. You can build in that ponding area, but they don't 7 want you to build out there where the water's going to be 8 flowing. So, after we do the determination, we determine, 9 are they going to be in the floodway or the flood fringe? 10 If they're going to be in the floodway, have to get an 11 engineer to do a hydraulic -- hydrological analysis to tell 12 them that whatever they're going to do in the floodway will 13 not affect the properties upstream or downstream or their 14 house -- their house will withstand a 100-year flood. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All of these permits that 16 you're speaking about, or this permit process, that is in 17 addition to the -- the determinations that we talked about a 18 little bit ago? 19 MR. BARRON: If the determine -- if an 20 engineer's going to be required to do the hydraulic and 21 hydrologic study, I tell them there's no sense in y'all 22 paying me to do a determination, because it's going to be 23 different than what he gets. His numbers are going to be 24 the best information available, and that's what we use. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: What -- what percentage of -- 10-27-00 70 1 of the determination cases that you handle, what portion of 2 them result in the landowner seeking a permit to build 3 within the -- within the floodplain? 4 MR. BARRON: I believe Commissioner Nicholson 5 has the numbers there of the permits that were -- is that on 6 that same page? 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I've got three 8 items. Determination activity for 11 months was 17. 9 Residential permit, 3. Commercial permit, 3. 10 MR. BARRON: So, it's not very many. I mean, 11 usually we can -- after a little bit of talking to the 12 individual, you can somewhat persuade them to build out of 13 the floodplain. Sometimes you can't. Sometimes -- the one 14 in Hunt, we can't persuade him. Their property is fully 15 enclosed and in the floodplain -- the floodway, and so it's 16 -- and they need to elevate about 15 feet, so it's going to 17 be quite interesting to see what happens with that. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think one of the things 19 I'm -- you know, I'm not sure how much the Court is looking 20 at these maps. The maps are not detailed at all. The maps 21 that were -- that we have to -- or the administrator uses 22 are, I mean, not much more than a highway map with a little 23 shaded area around them. And, so, when it comes down to 24 trying to delineate where a potential building site is on 25 the scale, it takes -- I can imagine it would take quite a 10-27-00 71 1 bit of time. 'Cause, I mean, I think that while the, you 2 know, determination -- the numbers may not be that many, 3 but, you know, you have to be -- we have to be very precise. 4 Our administrator has to be very precise. The consequences 5 for us not doing the job properly are severe to the County, 6 or to the county insurance program, FEMA. So, it's 7 really -- it's -- it's important. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It needs to be done 9 well. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Franklin, I'm glad 12 to see that you put all this good thought into this, and 13 it's very helpful. Let me get over to budget and fees. You 14 say in there fees should be credited to the budget and 15 modified periodically to make this program revenue-neutral 16 to Kerr County. 17 MR. JOHNSTON: I'm not sure that -- based on 18 the numbers, I'm not sure that that's possible. But -- 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: But the thought was 20 the fees should pay for the cost of the program. 21 MR. JOHNSTON: Some of it, anyway, I would 22 think. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The people using it. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Generally, I endorse 25 that concept; fees ought to pay for what we do for people. 10-27-00 72 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So do I. 2 MR. JOHNSTON: I'm not sure what the budget 3 is just for the floodplain. I don't know if you have it 4 broken down or what. 5 MR. BARRON: We just -- this first -- last 6 year was going to be the first year we had a floodplain line 7 item. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It really hasn't been 9 broken out in the past. On the training, it looks like 10 there's nothing available. 11 MR. JOHNSTON: I had occasion to call around; 12 I got on the internet and found some of these people that 13 sponsor these programs. These are the FEMA program that -- 14 I think it's the one Stuart took. Four and a half days, 15 take a test, and try not to go to Emmitsburg, Maryland -- 16 that's where the headquarters is -- to do that. They offer 17 one in Arlington on December 1st. I called them, and 18 they're booked up, and they have a bunch of people, you 19 know, stand-bys. There's one at L.C.R.A. in the spring. He 20 said they don't have a date for sure; it's going to be late 21 spring. There's one in October in Oklahoma -- Norman, 22 Oklahoma. That's January the 12th, so that's probably the 23 nearest -- nearest date. It's the same course. I called 24 them up this morning. They do have openings, so it's the 25 same course. FEMA sponsors it, puts it on. And I think 10-27-00 73 1 there's no fee for the course; just have to pay for travel 2 and getting there, staying a week. No matter where you go, 3 it's probably going to be about the same. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What is this meeting 5 in Kerrville? 6 MR. JOHNSTON: That's a little conference 7 coming up in Kerrville on the -- it's not the course. It's 8 just a little conference. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I believe -- 10 MR. JOHNSTON: Conference -- Floodplain 11 Management Association Conference. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I believe it's -- some 13 part of that is tailored for elected officials. It's not a 14 detailed course. It's more of a first -- 15 MR. JOHNSTON: One-day course. He said -- 16 probably for elected officials. He said it might be 17 interesting to go to it. He sent me the information on it 18 also. Can't beat the location. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Week from Thursday. 20 MR. JOHNSTON: Yeah. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And it's geared 22 toward people like us. I'm enrolled. Some of you might 23 want -- 24 MR. JOHNSTON: You can get your CEU's. If 25 you're already licensed, it helps you, you know, get those. 10-27-00 74 1 So, I thought maybe I'd go to that. There's also one on 2 training on the computer software that they use for the 3 mapping, ArcView, in Austin for one day coming up here in 4 December. So -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, based on this 6 and, you know, this Court's going to change direction as to 7 where we put this administration, I'd ask you to come back 8 at our next meeting with a budget, with some dollars. And 9 I'd encourage you, probably, to sign up for the school. You 10 can always cancel. First available school you can get into. 11 And, in the meantime, I guess what we do in the interim, I'm 12 not sure. I guess it depends somewhat on staffing of the 13 O.S.S.F. program. And I don't know if there's anybody else 14 in Kerr County, you know, other than Stuart, that's, you 15 know, I guess, quote, certified. So, I don't know -- you 16 know, I really don't have a good recommendation as to what 17 we do until Franklin's certified. I would like to know, you 18 know, is there, I guess, any jeopardy to the County, or 19 what's the status if we don't have a certified person -- 20 administrator managing the program? I would think -- I 21 mean, as few certification opportunities as they're giving, 22 I can't imagine that they can be, you know, too tough on not 23 having a certified person -- administrator for a short 24 period of time. 25 MR. JOHNSTON: Do you know what? That -- I 10-27-00 75 1 know some things on the internet, they're trying to 2 encourage people to -- all of them to be certified, which 3 must mean some of them aren't, and they're trying to tie it 4 to the -- to the use of that National Flood Insurance 5 Program; you must have a certified director. But probably 6 the break-in period, might be possible not to have it. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Stuart, do you have any 8 knowledge about that, whether there's a probationary or 9 training period that's permitted without certification, as 10 long as the affirmative steps are being taken to obtain 11 certification? 12 MR. BARRON: Right now, I don't believe you 13 have to be certified. I -- I'd have to call FEMA to -- to 14 really get their feel for that, but as far as I know, today, 15 you do not have to be a certified Floodplain Administrator 16 to do it. It gives you a lot more credibility, and you 17 actually know what you're doing. 18 MR. JOHNSTON: Might be an advantage. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It helps if you know 20 what you're doing. 21 MR. BARRON: Yes, sir. I can't imagine 22 trying to do it without -- without going to that training. 23 And after even after that training, it's going to take a 24 little while. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I'm just -- you know, 10-27-00 76 1 I don't think it hurts anything -- not hurt anything, but 2 changes, I think, the direction we need to go. And that we 3 can work on a budget for our next meeting and get with Shaun 4 on the exact hardware/software we're going to need, or 5 you're going to need. And, you know, just count on a week 6 from today, it's your program. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: And I would ask also that when 8 you come back, you give us as much detailed information 9 about these training opportunities, you know, when -- 10 MR. JOHNSTON: I think there's something 11 attached there which gives a breakdown of what all it is, on 12 some of the attachments in there. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, in the interim, 15 I'd encourage -- you know, Stuart's clearly our 16 administrator for the rest of this week, so if you can get 17 with Stuart -- 18 MR. JOHNSTON: Maybe I can borrow him for a 19 day or two. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: A crash course on 21 floodplain administration. 22 MR. JOHNSTON: But he just had a baby. 23 MR. BARRON: I've been out for a week, and 24 I've got a lot -- I've got some training I've got to do 25 tomorrow and the next day. So, I'll do what I can to help 10-27-00 77 1 you, but I will not be available much of the time. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, congratulations, 3 Stuart. I wasn't aware -- 4 MR. BARRON: Thank you. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything further on this 6 agenda item? Any motion to be offered, or further comments? 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: One -- one 8 additional carry-on comment. When you're working with the 9 budget, Franklin, consider how we can use the existing 10 clerical work force out there at Road and Bridge, in lieu of 11 adding -- having to add staff to do this clerical work for 12 us. I'm just -- with only 25 or so cases, whatever you want 13 to call them, a year out there -- 14 MR. JOHNSTON: Well, see, I didn't know 15 exactly how much -- what the volume was on this, but you 16 hate to keep adding workload to their -- they already have a 17 -- keep adding things to their workload. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't mind keeping 19 adding to it. (Laughter.) 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Another thing -- well, 21 two things. I think, with the -- and just for Shaun also, I 22 know you put down a laptop. This seems to me like a program 23 that, if we input data in the field, or -- you know, if you 24 can input it, we can reduce the clerical need, hopefully. 25 But if we can set up -- 10-27-00 78 1 MR. JOHNSTON: That's true. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- some of the software 3 to, you know, not have to have you write it down or input it 4 and then have it re-inputted, might be of benefit. And the 5 other thing, we -- I'm sure you noticed we carefully avoided 6 talking about salary items for you, and I just want to share 7 with the Court what I -- you know, what I previously told 8 Franklin on this item. This is, clearly, in my mind, 9 something beyond what we've asked the County Engineer to do 10 in the past, and I -- but I said that I -- I think that we 11 need to probably, about the first of the year, have a 12 meeting with the County Engineer and go over this. I think 13 Subdivision Rules are going to have some changes that are 14 going to change his responsibilities and workload a little 15 bit at that time; go over that. And, based on some of the 16 conversations that we had during the budget process about 17 the County Engineer, I think we need to address all those 18 right after the first of the year, when we have a little bit 19 of a handle on it, and I think his salary compensation and 20 hours and expectations will be clearly defined at that time. 21 So, I just ask that the -- knowing that that's coming, 22 figure out -- you know, we can figure out maybe an hourly 23 rate for the floodplain up until that point, and then we can 24 handle it on a -- on a little bit larger scale after the 25 first of the year. 10-27-00 79 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Is that it for this 2 agenda item? Thank you, Mr. Johnston. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thanks for your work 4 on that. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thanks, Franklin. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: At this time, we're a little 7 bit beyond our normal mid-morning break point. I'll go 8 ahead and we'll recess and we'll come back, oh, about 9 11 o'clock. 10 (Discussion off the record.) 11 (Recess taken from 10:41 a.m. to 11:00 a.m.) 12 - - - - - - - - - - 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's reconvene the 14 meeting -- special Commissioners Court meeting scheduled for 15 this date. We've had our mid-morning break. We'll now move 16 to Item Number 12, consideration and discussion of the 17 status of Environmental Health Department, their new office 18 space and possible location of temporary office space. 19 Commissioner Letz? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I put this on the agenda 21 just so we can kind of get an update on timing, because of 22 some of the other agenda items, and get an idea as to, 23 realistically, if Mr. Holekamp feels that space will be 24 ready. Well, if he can give us -- if he can give us a date 25 as to when it will be ready, and based on that, we may need 10-27-00 80 1 a temporary -- may not need a temporary location. 2 MR. HOLEKAMP: No, it's not ready. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, you will need a temporary 4 location. 5 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, you will need a temporary 6 place. A couple comments relative to that is that -- as 7 y'all are well aware, is that there's several of the trades 8 that go into place down here that have to be scheduled. I 9 mean, the businesses in town; i.e., the electrical, even 10 though we have a contract with them, and air-conditioning 11 and several of those, it has to be scheduled -- and 12 telephone company. And Shaun is here too, and there's 13 several issues with putting conduit in the walls for 14 computer cables and electrical. So -- so, this is -- the 15 electricians are at it today putting the boxes in so we can 16 go ahead and finish the sheetrock. Then we're going to do 17 taping and floating hopefully in the next day or two. But 18 the floor, we cannot do anything until we're through with 19 all of those other items. So, if you're looking for a date 20 that we can move in there, it would be -- it would really be 21 stretching with giving you a firm date. I would like to 22 think the 15th of November is a -- I could do it. But, 23 there again, if one thing doesn't fall into place, it could 24 mess up that -- that schedule. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What -- that being said, 10-27-00 81 1 that, in my mind, means we need a temporary location. 2 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What needs to be done to 4 the office spaces downstairs just to make them so they can 5 be occupied? 6 MR. HOLEKAMP: They're ready, sir. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: In this building? 8 MR. HOLEKAMP: Other than telephone. I mean, 9 that would have to be -- telephone company would have to 10 send people over here to -- to assign numbers and put it 11 into those jacks that are -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would I think that -- I 13 think that's what we need to do. We need to get those 14 office spaces in this building set up so that we can operate 15 out of there, and also be a space to move files and 16 everything else. 17 MR. HOLEKAMP: When I said immediately, 18 Commissioner, I meant, like, a day to two days to -- to move 19 some stuff around. But -- but, there again, we would really 20 need to -- the telephone and that sort of thing, I -- I 21 really don't have any control over -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 23 MR. HOLEKAMP: -- when those people can be 24 here. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the -- how did I 10-27-00 82 1 style the -- 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask a question 3 while he's looking. Not all those offices down there -- are 4 you talking about the suites below us? The suites? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The suites. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Below us? They're not 7 all computerized, either. But they -- they are? All of 8 them are? No, they are not. 9 MR. BRANHAM: They're not all computerized, 10 but that would be a very short amount of time to make them 11 ready. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a piece of 13 cake; just pull some wire over there. 14 MR. BRANHAM: Yeah. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Commissioner Letz, 17 is this the right time to talk about a hiatus of two or 18 three days on transaction of business? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I was -- I was thinking 20 the same thing as to -- we almost need to call a couple of 21 items up at once, I think, to talk about them. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me go ahead and call 23 Number 13 so that we can kind of run these together, since 24 they seem to be in tandem. Consideration and discussion of 25 the transition schedule for the transfer of the O.S.S.F. 10-27-00 83 1 program from U.G.R.A. to the Kerr County Environmental 2 Health Department. Does that help you? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. And this was -- you 4 know, if everyone is clear, we're all on the same page, 5 U.G.R.A. will no longer handle the O.S.S.F. program 6 effective 5 o'clock this Friday, based on our schedule, and 7 we'll get to some of the hiring and things that are coming 8 up. We are not going to be totally up and running by a week 9 from today on that Monday, though I think it can be shortly 10 after that. My recommendation is going to be that we close 11 the O.S.S.F. office everywhere for Monday and Tuesday of 12 next week, and reopen it next -- I mean, Wednesday, the 5th 13 of November, downstairs in the temporary location. I think, 14 by that time, that gives us time to do a move on Monday and 15 Tuesday of all the files, the office equipment, other things 16 that we're bringing over from U.G.R.A. It gives Maintenance 17 time to put desks and things in the temporary offices 18 downstairs, and then it also allows the Court -- that's 19 really more under another agenda item, but time to call a 20 special meeting on Monday and Tuesday of next week for 21 hiring personnel. And I think, that way -- I mean, I think 22 it's reasonable for the public to understand that we'll 23 close it off, 'cause I think it's better, in my mind, to 24 keep it closed just for two days while we're going through 25 transition, rather than trying to limp through it and do a 10-27-00 84 1 poor job. And we do, obviously, need some time to get this 2 move to take place, so that would be my recommendation on 3 that part of it. So, your question -- Commissioner 4 Nicholson and I have talked about -- a little bit about this 5 and came up with this as a plan that we think is workable, 6 and then with the idea of being up and running on 7 November 5th. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Our objective is 9 to -- is to operate an O.S.S.F. administration that provides 10 a good experience, a good service for everybody that comes 11 in contact with it, and I view that this may -- this may 12 inconvenience some people, being out of business for a 13 couple days, but I view it as an investment toward creating 14 our capability to provide that good experience in the 15 future. 16 MR. JORDAN: There's people going to be 17 trying to close their property out. There's new houses; 18 there's going to be open ditches. There's going to be a 19 bunch of stuff. You can't leave them sitting two days, 20 and -- 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Would you identify 22 yourself, sir? 23 MR. JORDAN: Huh? 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Would you identify 25 yourself? 10-27-00 85 1 MR. JORDAN: I'm Bennett Jordan. We got open 2 ditches. I install septic tanks, and we got close-outs 3 on -- which is interest rates and all that stuff. Means a 4 whole lot to a lot of people. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: There's things going 6 on next Monday and Tuesday? 7 MR. JORDAN: I imagine it's all over Kerr 8 County, not just me. Could be somebody else. Might be 10 9 of us. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Stuart, could you 11 comment on how much it would inconvenience people if we shut 12 down for Monday and Tuesday? 13 MR. BARRON: Kind of a rock in a hard spot. 14 There's three of our installers here in the room. I believe 15 it would -- depending on if there's house closings and 16 things of that nature already scheduled for Monday, it would 17 inconvenience those people. It depends on how -- how much 18 up and running it is going to be on Wednesday. I mean, if 19 it -- if they hit the ground running and get a lot of things 20 done. If it's going to be a few more days of determining 21 everything is down there, getting the computers up and 22 going, getting the phone numbers out to everybody -- we've 23 had a lot of contact at our office, "What are the new phone 24 numbers going to be? How do we get hold of y'all? Where 25 are y'all going to be at?" We don't know what to tell 10-27-00 86 1 anybody. So, it is -- there is going to be a larger 2 transfer time than -- than the two days that it will be shut 3 down. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a question. 5 If the Court adopts the O.S.S.F. order that's on the agenda 6 today, that order eliminates real estate inspections. 7 Does -- is that order effective today? And, if so, why 8 would anybody be inconvenienced in terms of a house closing? 9 MR. BARRON: It is not in effect until the 10 executive -- executive from T.N. -- T.C.E.Q. pass on the 11 document. Executive Director, excuse me. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That could be done by 13 this week -- well, yeah, potentially. But I think we ought 14 to have a public hearing on that, personally. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think you do, too. 16 I have a question of Glenn, though. Where is Glenn? How 17 many more work days do you need to finish the new quarters? 18 MR. HOLEKAMP: 12 to 14, minimum. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 12 to 14, five of 20 which are this week? 21 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So -- 23 MR. HOLEKAMP: I need these next two weeks. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, another week 25 beyond this week would get you very, very close? 10-27-00 87 1 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir, if everything falls 2 into place. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And if we're talking 4 about the possibility of -- of not reopening -- or 5 deliberately closing down for three days, that leaves two 6 additional, which prompts me to ask, why not shut the 7 program down for a week? Let them finish the new quarters 8 and not have to move the program twice. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that's too much 10 of an inconvenience for the public for a week. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Of course, the ideal 12 situation is to get U.G.R.A. to keep it for one more week or 13 10 days. And I -- I have -- I've scratched my head on this. 14 I cannot see why that -- that wouldn't work. I just don't 15 understand it, unless it has something to do with Christmas 16 decorations, and then I'm perfectly clear. (Laughter.) 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Only thing I can say is 18 that they've given employees a two-week notice, and that two 19 weeks is up, as I understand it, this Friday, so there's no 20 employees at U.G.R.A. as of Friday. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I understand. 22 That's what I'm talking about. Keep that running for -- I 23 mean, I don't think it's going to break them. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Barron, if -- if there are 25 closings scheduled for Monday or Tuesday of next week, is it 10-27-00 88 1 not normal for whatever clearances or activities that -- 2 that the O.S.S.F. administrator needs to take, that they 3 already be taken by the end of this week, such that 4 everything's in place for closings for Monday and Tuesday of 5 next week? 6 MR. BARRON: No, sir, not -- not necessarily. 7 We've -- we're just about -- our schedule's just about full 8 for this week already. It's very rare that that happens, 9 but being that this transition is going to take place in the 10 very near future, everybody's trying to get as much done as 11 they can, and we are -- Thursday and Friday of this week, we 12 are going to be going through files over there. The staff 13 is unaware if they're going to be hired to come over here; 14 we're going to try to get it in order for whoever will be 15 here at the County, so we can pick up wherever we left off. 16 One option that y'all may consider is, if y'all do hire 17 somebody, is contract with U.G.R.A. just for office space 18 for a week or two. That will save two transition periods 19 for the County. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The other option may be 21 just kind of similar to what Commissioner Baldwin is saying, 22 is to -- this is really more up to the current staff -- 23 personnel, is if, you know, there's a way that the County 24 can hire them on a contract basis for a couple of days, 25 maybe a week, and see if they would be willing to, you know, 10-27-00 89 1 not be employees; just contract individuals with the County. 2 MR. JORDAN: Make it for two weeks. Make it 3 for two weeks, and then you have everything ready. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 5 MR. JORDAN: Make it for two weeks, and 6 that's one pay period for the employees. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I'm saying, that's 8 not -- we don't -- the ball's out of our court if we do 9 that. I don't have a problem with doing that, but I have no 10 idea -- I've not talked with any of the current staff, 11 whether they'd be willing to do that. They may or may not; 12 I don't know, but that would be an option to have on a 13 contract until, you know, the positions are filled, or even 14 after the position's filled. It could be a longer period, 15 and that's just an option that we can look at. But I think 16 it has -- that's something that is more of a -- up to the 17 individuals involved, whether they would be willing to do 18 that or not. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, it looks like we got two 20 issues. One is space, which, of course, is not up to the 21 individual; that's up to the entity. Secondly, with regard 22 to the personnel, those are individual issues, and 23 certainly, on a temporary basis, you know, whatever -- 24 whatever is necessary under a transition schedule that we 25 come up with, but that seems like the more logical thing to 10-27-00 90 1 do to prevent two moves, and also to kind of keep the bases 2 covered during the transition period. And, hopefully by 3 that time, we can get T.C.E.Q. approval on -- on the order 4 that we sent forward. That would be nice to have, too, at 5 that point in time, I think. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. I mean -- 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I want to ask a 8 couple detail questions on the -- the shutting down for a 9 day or two, whether -- whether to do it now or later, or 10 whether or not we do it. If somebody's closing on a real 11 estate transaction on Monday, isn't all the paperwork for 12 that done by the end of this week and the administrator has 13 no more role in that closing? 14 MR. BARRON: Depends on when we're notified. 15 So, I -- 16 MR. JORDAN: If I haven't finished the job 17 till Monday afternoon -- or I'll say Saturday; I mean, I 18 finished it Saturday for inspection for Monday, okay? It's 19 got to be inspected before you can cover it up or whatever 20 you're doing, okay? And then they can come out and inspect 21 it and -- and send them a deal like the title company, that 22 it's all been taken care of, and they will send the license 23 to them, fax it to them or something like that. You can 24 close it out that Monday afternoon. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: If you -- if you 10-27-00 91 1 finish up a job on late Friday afternoon and you're waiting 2 for an inspection -- 3 MR. JORDAN: It will be Monday. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: If we were closed 5 Monday or Tuesday, you'd be sitting there idle for two days? 6 MR. JORDAN: Yes, sir. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I think Stuart just mentioned 8 that. 9 MR. JORDAN: If I had an open ditch, it's 10 only rained three inches, there I am sitting with an open 11 ditch out there. Got all my life investment in that open 12 ditch and everything, waiting for inspection, and y'all 13 close down, and then there I am. I'm flooded out, washed 14 out, whatever. And just not me; it's a bunch. Y'all are 15 saying -- 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't want that to 17 happen. 18 MR. JORDAN: I'll cover it up, but -- that's 19 the only thing that a white person can do, just cover it up, 20 and y'all wrestle over it then. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I knew if he'd be 22 there long enough, he'd step in it. 23 MR. JORDAN: Wouldn't -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: I think what he said a little 25 bit ago was that -- that you can't -- schedule is full for 10-27-00 92 1 the balance of this week. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: So, if somebody makes a noise 4 about wanting anything for the rest of this week, they're -- 5 you say, "You're going to have to deal with the new guys." 6 Is that what you tell them? 7 MR. BARRON: Yes, sir, that's -- that's 8 accurate. We took the last inspection this morning. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I guess -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: So, hope you don't have 11 anything else going this week, Bennett. You're in big 12 trouble. 13 MR. JORDAN: Well, we did it when David 14 Leidke was in charge. When he went on vacation, we just had 15 to stop, too. That's how come David Leidke's not here. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I -- we have two options. 17 MR. JORDAN: Y'all put yourself in this jam. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't believe it was 19 all us. 20 MR. JORDAN: We got to keep on working. 21 Heck, I got tractor payments and house payments just like 22 everybody else. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's two options, and 24 they don't preclude each other. We can shut down for two 25 days, or we can -- or we could visit with the current staff 10-27-00 93 1 and see if they're willing to work on a contract basis for a 2 week or two weeks or some amount of time. I don't know the 3 best format to do that. I don't think it's appropriate to 4 ask them -- I know they're all here, but we're not -- I 5 don't think it's appropriate to ask them in open session. 6 So, we could either visit one-on-one with them, or Dave or I 7 or -- you know -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why don't our 9 committee members approach them, just like we're doing 10 everything else? Why are you beating around that bush, Jon? 11 Just do it. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's -- we better 13 have a Plan B in case they say no. 14 (Discussion off the record.) 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This may be the first 16 time I'd ever agree with Bennett Jordan, but I think he's 17 onto something. And don't let it out that I did; I have to 18 live here, but I think he's onto something there. To give 19 plenty of time to get everything done and up and running. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that's ideal. We 21 can try that. And I don't mean -- I think that -- you know, 22 I hope U.G.R.A. will be agreeable. I think -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What would Plan B be, 24 in the event that they don't? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- 10-27-00 94 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If certain elements 2 of Plan A fall through the cracks. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that we will pass 4 this agenda item; we'll be back here at 1:30 today, and I 5 think, between now and then, we'll have an opportunity to 6 visit, at least briefly, with the personnel that are 7 currently employed by U.G.R.A. and with Mr. Etter. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Does anybody have a motion 9 that they wish to offer in connection with Agenda Items 12 10 or 13 at this time? The consensus I hear is that we will 11 pass on this for the present time, and we'll come back to 12 it -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Later. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: -- at a later time, within the 15 time permitted that we have lawfully to consider it. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And before we leave 17 that -- and I would, you know, appreciate it if the four 18 individuals -- four that work at U.G.R.A. currently, if you 19 can avail yourself right after -- around noon for a few 20 minutes, I'd appreciate it, just to ask a couple of 21 questions so we can kind of resolve this this afternoon. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: The next item on the agenda is 23 consideration and discussion of approval of a fee schedule 24 for O.S.S.F. program. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just asked Thea to 10-27-00 95 1 basically get the current schedule and put it in here so 2 that we have a fee schedule adopted by the Court when we get 3 it over here. I'm not necessarily -- I have not spent a 4 great deal of time looking at it. I really don't think we 5 should make any changes at this time. I think we may want 6 to make some changes down the road, but I think we should 7 have the benefit of the staff, once they're in the new 8 positions, to do that. But I would make a motion at this 9 time that we adopt the fee schedule as presented. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to 12 adopt the O.S.S.F. fee schedule as presented. Any questions 13 or discussion on this item? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. You said 15 that we can take another look at it down the road. Down the 16 road, like, a month? Or -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: As soon as we get a 18 manager in that department. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. So, as soon as 20 we can come back and revisit some of these things. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just wanted to be able 22 to have some things in place so this wouldn't fall through 23 the cracks. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Very good. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I appreciate that. 10-27-00 96 1 We have to have a fee schedule in place, and the obvious 2 thing is to continue the existing fee schedule. But, just 3 as with floodplain, and some comments from my colleague in 4 Precinct 4, this program, in my opinion, should stand on its 5 own two feet. It should not be subsidized by the taxpayers, 6 48 -- 48 or 50 percent of whom live inside the city limits 7 and pay for their sewer directly, over and above their tax 8 load. I believe this program should stand on its own two 9 feet, and fee schedule should be adjusted to make it do 10 that. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I agree with 12 Commissioner Williams in principle. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or 14 discussion about the motion? All in favor of the motion, 15 signify by -- 16 MR. BARRON: Can I make a comment on that 17 last statement, please, sir? To Commissioner Williams' 18 statement? I just -- I have a comment. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 20 MR. BARRON: My comment is, if -- if the 21 program is going to stand on its own two feet, the 10-acre 22 exemption will have to be expanded (sic). There's a lot of 23 properties out in Kerr County that -- that are larger than 24 10 acres, and for this program to work properly, stand on 25 its own, it will have to do away with that. 10-27-00 97 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Any further 2 question or comment on the motion? All in favor of the 3 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Next item 8 is consideration and discussion of the process for hiring 9 the personnel for the Environmental Health Department of 10 Kerr County. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I put this on the agenda 12 along with Commissioner Nicholson, as these other items, so 13 we can get a definite procedure in place and timeline for 14 hiring new personnel. We are receiving applications through 15 this Friday. 5 o'clock Friday is the cutoff date. My 16 recommendation would be that we have a special Commissioners 17 Court meeting next Monday, and at that meeting we will -- 18 can do one of two things. We can -- I think Commissioner 19 Nicholson and myself will be glad to go through resumes, 20 pick out three, four, whatever the Court desires, for each 21 position, recommend those. Or we can just meet as a group 22 and go over all of them and pick three or four and, you 23 know, interview based on that. Just kind of two ways to get 24 basically to a group that we want to interview. I'd 25 recommend those interviews be held on Tuesday, and the 10-27-00 98 1 decision made Tuesday -- on Tuesday as well for all three 2 positions. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't have any 4 problem with that. I don't want to review all of those 5 applications. I'd like to see maybe three. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We were -- and we have -- 7 there's two, I guess, approaches we can do. We can hire all 8 three kind of independent of the Court, or we can hire the 9 -- the manager first, and have the manager at least present, 10 and give a little bit of time to go over the applications 11 and, you know, give us some input. Obviously, that person 12 would be on very short notice, but would be able to have 13 some input in the process. Just a thought as to how we want 14 to do that. I do think that if we do -- one of the pluses 15 to Commissioner Nicholson and myself recommending three or 16 four individuals for each position is that we can notify 17 those that are being recommended and ask them to make 18 themselves available on Tuesday for interviews. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd like for you to 20 consider that, in the event there's some reason why you 21 can't put the manager in place first, that you consider 22 putting the administrative support in place, so that you 23 have some continuity in terms of client interface. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, I will make a motion 25 that Commissioner Nicholson and myself will recommend three 10-27-00 99 1 candidates for each of the three new positions. That will 2 be done at a special meeting on Monday, and we will have 3 interviews set up for those recommended candidates on 4 Tuesday, and the meeting will be at 9 o'clock both days. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Commissioners Court is 6 going to interview? Or you two guys are going to interview? 7 Commissioners Court's going to interview three from each 8 one? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Three from each one, the 10 full court. I really am not comfortable with Commissioner 11 -- I think the full court needs to make that decision. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with you 100 13 percent. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I guess you should 15 know that I have arranged to interview with two of the 16 current staff, because they're likely candidates, and so 17 this will be in addition to this process. And -- and you 18 might want to do something similar. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. I mean, the 20 resumes are available with our court administrator, and 21 anyone -- any of the Court certainly is welcome to go 22 through them and contact any of the individuals if they have 23 any questions, and pass that information on to us if you so 24 choose. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You said two or 10-27-00 100 1 three? 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So far, I've 3 arranged to meet -- I've got appointments to meet with two 4 of the -- two of the four. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Two of the four? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Current. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Of the current staff. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion. Do I hear a 9 second? 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that 12 the committee, consisting of Commissioners Letz and 13 Nicholson, go through the resumes and conduct interviews as 14 may be necessary or appropriate, in their judgment, and 15 recommend to the Court next Monday morning, at 9 a.m., three 16 candidates for each of the three different jobs, and the 17 Court at that time will be in a position to discuss or 18 confer, otherwise interview those candidates, with the 19 selection to be made the following day at -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, I said 9 o'clock, 21 but I really don't know why we just can't really post it for 22 Monday. If we need to extend it over till Tuesday, we 23 extend it. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that satisfactory? 10-27-00 101 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If we can handle it all 4 Monday, we can handle it Monday. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Any further 6 question or discussion on the motion? 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Judge, will either 8 one or both of those processes be held in executive session? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: In all probability, the 10 personnel portions of it, the selection/interviewing portion 11 of it will probably be in executive session, I would 12 imagine. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Ms. Nemec? 14 MS. NEMEC: Just -- I'd just like to make a 15 comment. It's not directly to the motion, but it is on this 16 agenda item. We were kind of pressed for time when we had 17 to put this in the paper and -- and post the job on the web 18 site and everything. And I know, too often, y'all are -- 19 people come to you with complaints about employees and 20 stuff, and when it's something good that happens, y'all 21 hardly ever hear about it. But, really, this would never 22 have gotten done if Shaun wouldn't have jumped in and helped 23 me with it, because my computer crashed that day. And, I 24 mean, he had a lot of other things going on, and I know it's 25 hard for him with all these elected officials and department 10-27-00 102 1 heads coming to him, for him to prioritize, but he got right 2 down to my office and helped me get it done. So, this is 3 all falling into place 'cause he was there for me, so I just 4 wanted y'all to know that. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Appreciate that. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thanks. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or 9 comments on the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify 10 by raising your right hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. The next 15 item is consideration, approval of the policy concerning the 16 authority of the Manager/Field Representative of the 17 Environmental Health Department, a redress of grievance 18 process, and the organizational relationship of the Manager 19 and his or her staff with the Commissioners Court. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: This -- you see in 21 your book there, I have drafted a proposed policy for the 22 Environmental Health Department in an attempt to address 23 some issues that I think every member of the Court has 24 expressed some concern about, that being the -- the issue of 25 the autonomy of the Manager to -- to administer the O.S.S.F. 10-27-00 103 1 program without undue interference from individual members 2 of the Commissioners Court, while assuring that citizens who 3 are using the program have an appropriate route of appeal. 4 So, I put together a policy that attempts to deal with those 5 two issues. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I appreciate your efforts, 7 Commissioner. In the last paragraph, I would make two minor 8 wording recommendations. In the second line, "authorized to 9 engage in activities to...", I would interline "discuss or" 10 so that it reads "discuss or mediate." And then, following 11 on, "grievances outside the grievance process outlined above 12 or otherwise" -- interline, "engage or" interfere in the 13 administration of O.S.S.F. or solid waste. I think it's a 14 little broader, gives a little bit more meat to the policy. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Would you give us 16 those again, please, sir? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Second line would read, 18 "engage in activities to discuss or mediate grievances." 19 And then, in the last line, "otherwise engage or interfere 20 in the administration." 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Judge, let me see if 22 I can understand what the reality of that -- the impact it 23 would have. If -- if Bennett Jordan comes to me and says, 24 "I've got a problem with the way that's being administered," 25 that does not suggest that I can't discuss that with him to 10-27-00 104 1 understand the -- the issues involved before -- before 2 bringing that to Commissioners Court for resolution of 3 grievance? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: If you're talking about the 5 overall policy of the program? No. No. If you're talking 6 about an individual grievance -- 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Mm-hmm. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: -- or the -- the ministerial 9 act of the administration of the program, that, of course, 10 would be off the table. But if you're talking about overall 11 policy for Commissioners Court to change policy, for 12 example, in a given matter -- 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No, I'm talking 14 about a specific grievance. If -- if Mr. Jordan says to me, 15 "Your inspections aren't being done timely, and that's 16 costing me money," this -- these words seem to -- seem to 17 indicate that I can't discuss that with him for 18 understanding; that I have to say, "Okay, we're going to 19 have to take this to Commissioners Court." 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I look at it -- 21 I understand what you're saying. I look at it like the unit 22 road system; i.e., Road and Bridge. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I do too. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I would never -- I 25 mean, I can't imagine a time that I would have a private 10-27-00 105 1 conversation with someone about a Road and Bridge issue 2 without -- without the County Engineer being there, because 3 that is his job. The -- the people put him there. And, I 4 mean, I'm not going to get involved in it. I know I threw a 5 curve at you there. But -- 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm doing it wrong, 7 then, 'cause if anybody -- somebody contacts me and says, 8 "I've got potholes here; I need some help on them," I'm 9 going to say, "Let's go look at your potholes, and then I'll 10 get you in touch with" -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not me. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- "Road and 13 Bridge." 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not me. Call the 15 County Engineer. The people voted him in -- or not voted 16 him in, but voted the system -- the unit road system in, 17 which eliminates the County Commissioner from the -- the 18 inter-workings of that. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think I'm kind of 20 maybe in between the two. I mean, I think that -- I find it 21 very difficult just to say you can't discuss it at all, 22 because how do you know -- I mean, if I get a call, it will 23 be a -- you know three, four minutes into a conversation 24 till I know what they're even talking about, and I'm 25 discussing it. So, I really -- you know, you can't discuss 10-27-00 106 1 it at all? I think that's a little bit strong. I think 2 that -- you know, I think you have to -- the intent is clear 3 here. Individual Commissioners are not to get involved 4 with -- with -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- individual O.S.S.F., 7 the administration of the rules and regulations. And I 8 think that you just have to rely on the Commissioners having 9 enough integrity to -- once it gets to the point that they 10 understand there is a complaint, then say, "Okay, I 11 understand it. We can get it on the agenda." 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Wouldn't that be -- 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which prompts me to 14 offer another suggestion here. I'm not in disagreement, but 15 I think adding the word "discuss" limits our ability to even 16 communicate with our constituencies about items that they 17 may have on their mind. I would like to suggest that the -- 18 that the paragraph be amended to read, "individual members 19 of the Court are not authorized to" -- and take out the 20 words "engage in activities." Are not authorized to 21 mediate. That's the whole crux of it. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: There you go. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It is exactly the 24 crux of it. If somebody says, "Well, you know, I want a 25 decision out of you," you're not going to get one out of me. 10-27-00 107 1 I'll put on it the agenda; you bring it to court. But I do 2 want to engage in a discussion, because they initiated it, 3 and I'm hard-pressed to say no, I can't talk to you about 4 it. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And, Commissioner, 6 you need to know enough about the issue that you can 7 intelligently put on it the agenda. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's exactly right. 9 So, I'd like to -- I'd like to suggest we remove the words 10 "engage in activities to." 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you 12 something right quick. Y'all are scaring me just a little 13 bit. If -- if Bennett Jordan -- first of all, if Bennett 14 calls me, I'm hanging up. (Laughter.) 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If he calls me, what 16 do I do? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's up to you. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: This is going to be 19 known as the Bennett Jordan policy. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's right. It's 21 the Jordan policy. If Bennett Jordan calls me, and -- and 22 then I -- after four hours of the nonsense that he always 23 does, and once you realize that there is a complaint, I'm 24 saying call the administrator. You have to talk to the 25 administrator. I don't say I'm going to put it on the 10-27-00 108 1 Commissioners Court agenda. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And, Commissioner, 3 suppose that person says, "Yes, I've already talked to the 4 administrator, and we have a disagreement here. And I'm 5 asking for your help in getting the Commissioners Court" -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm not going to take 7 his word for it. I'm going to visit with my employee -- 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- to find out where 10 all that is. And if -- if that is the case, yes, then we go 11 on. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And you're going to 13 want to know enough about that citizen's issues that you can 14 intelligently discuss it with -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, that's fine. 16 That's fine. I understand what you're saying, and you're 17 absolutely correct. I'm not going to do that. Do not bring 18 a septic tank to Precinct 1. Go to the administrator. If 19 you can't work it out, come to Commissioners Court. Don't 20 bring that stuff to me. Simple, period. Cut-and-dried. 21 Been there and done that, and it's the most unpleasant thing 22 I've ever done. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree with you. 24 You and I have had this conversation before. But Paragraph 25 2 says if we get to the point that this Court has to 10-27-00 109 1 adjudicate the issue, you have to put it on the agenda. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's correct. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what it says. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's fine. If our 5 administrator says, "Commissioner Baldwin, we've had this 6 thing," and Bennett calls up and says, "We've had this 7 thing," you know, I'll be happy to put on it the agenda. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that's a good 9 point. I think that the -- as to who puts it on the agenda, 10 I don't think the Commissioners should put it on the agenda. 11 I think the administrator should put it -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do too. I agree 100 13 percent. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that they -- 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That'll be fine with 16 me. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that the -- the 18 individual who has a grievance, you know -- I mean, the 19 administrator can't say no. If we want to get it on the 20 agenda, it gets on the agenda. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: The aggrieved person can 22 request the administrator have it placed on the agenda. 23 It's a right. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The administrator doesn't 25 have the option of saying no. But I don't -- I don't really 10-27-00 110 1 think it needs to come to the Commissioner; I think it 2 really needs to come through that department. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, then, you can 4 make another change. That would be in that sentence, "The 5 appeal is initiated by the aggrieved person notifying the 6 appropriate" -- notifying the appropriate County 7 Commissioner of the basis of a grievance, and then the -- 8 the program administrator should place it on the agenda. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it should say the 10 appeal "initiated by the aggrieved person notifying" -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: The administrator. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- "the administrator of 13 the basis for the grievance." 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's fine. But, 15 somehow or other, you got to know about it. You need to 16 know about it, or you're going to get blindsided up here. 17 You need to know about it. Somebody has to tell you about 18 it. 19 MR. PEARSON: Administrator would. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Administrator hopefully 21 would tell you. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Hope so. 23 MR. PEARSON: That would be part of the 24 process. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let us hope. 10-27-00 111 1 JUDGE TINLEY: And you have -- and you 2 eliminate, in the next to the last sentence, "shall notify 3 Manager of the Environmental Health Department." 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Shall notify the aggrieved 6 person, that the aggrieved person -- that the grievance is 7 scheduled to be heard. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All I'm saying is that 9 the -- the Commissioner should handle as less of this 10 process as possible. That's all I'm trying to say. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree, until we're in 12 here as a Court. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Until we're in here as 14 a whole. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Any objections to 16 the title? (Laughter.) 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, title looks good. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The color of the ink, 19 now. We -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Dave, is it possible to 21 get this -- these changes made by this afternoon so we can 22 vote on it today? 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Sure. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are we through with 10-27-00 112 1 that? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Until -- it's going to 3 come back, I think. We'll be back at 1:30. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything further on 5 this one? All right, we'll pass that one for possible later 6 action. Next item, consider and discuss and approve an 7 order adopting rules of Kerr County, Texas for On-Site 8 Sewage Facilities and authorize the County Judge to submit 9 the proposed rules to the Texas Commission on Environmental 10 Quality for approval, and setting a public hearing on the 11 same if necessary. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think what you see 13 before you -- Commissioner Nicholson did more of the work on 14 that, the drafting of it, but I think it is the model 15 language for a state order. There's no Section 10 -- well, 16 there's a Section 10, but it doesn't have anything special. 17 I mean, it refers to duties and powers, just the model 18 order. Now, I'm in favor of approving this and submitting 19 it to T.C.E.Q. You know, I don't -- I think for approval, 20 but I also think we need a public hearing on it, because I 21 think -- because we are making a change, and I think the 22 public has a right to give us their input. And I will also 23 say that the state law does not require that public hearing. 24 As I understand it, we can submit them when we're adopting 25 state rules, and that's it, but I prefer the former, of 10-27-00 113 1 having a public hearing. My only question really goes as to 2 the order of those events. I know that if you're -- 3 generally, if you're going to have the public hearing, you 4 know, you have to submit the rules, get them to approve it, 5 and then do the public hearing and then resubmit them again, 6 which seems kind of bizarre to me to do it that way. But if 7 we're doing the state rules, I don't know why we can't -- 8 'cause we don't have to have the public hearing -- why we 9 can't have the public hearing before we submit them. Makes 10 a lot -- you know, because there is a chance that there may 11 be a change made based on what we hear in the public 12 hearing. I don't know about -- 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Didn't we have this 14 discussion about a month ago, when some attorney -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, that -- 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- constituent 17 advised us we couldn't proceed the way we were trying to 18 proceed? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But we weren't using 20 state rules. It's different when you -- as I understand it, 21 if you're adopting state rules, you don't have to have a 22 public hearing; you just adopt them. But I think we need to 23 give the public a chance to voice their opinion on the 24 rules. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree with that. 10-27-00 114 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I think we need 2 to -- I think we need to adopt them and send them to Austin. 3 I'm not -- I'm not convinced that they're going to go 4 through this little process within a few days, like y'all 5 indicated earlier. This could take a while. I've seen it 6 take a good while. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: What's the time frame on the 9 public hearing, assuming one is necessary? Would that be 10 10 to 14 -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I believe it's 72 hours. 12 MS. SOVIL: Has to be published. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Has to be published. 14 But, I mean, it's -- I mean, it's a -- I believe it's 72 15 hours, from what I -- 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's -- what's the 17 County Attorney say? Where is he? 18 MR. MOTLEY: I haven't reviewed it. I mean, 19 I don't know. 20 MR. BARRON: It's 72 hours. Has to be 21 published. 22 MR. JORDAN: That's what I was trying to tell 23 you. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Jordan. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 72 hours, but you have to 10-27-00 115 1 get it published and notice, so I think we're looking at 2 about a week, at a minimum. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Can we hold a public 4 hearing at the same time we hold our emergency meeting -- or 5 special meeting next week? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Next Monday? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that clouds the 8 issue a little bit. I think we're really trying to do two 9 very different topics; be better to do them at different 10 times, I mean, during the day. Have one at -- do our 11 meeting at 9:00, and then maybe at 3 o'clock in the 12 afternoon, do the public hearing. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, you can -- you 14 can read the -- read the law, and you can read into it that 15 you need to first go to T.C.E.Q., or you can read into it 16 that, no, you don't have to do that, hold a public hearing. 17 What I do know is that -- is that other entities have held 18 their public hearings, sent the rules to T.C.E.Q., and 19 they're approved, so I think we're -- we're safe in going 20 that route. I also think we're safe in that the T.C.E.Q. 21 says the -- if you adopt the model state order, then we're 22 going to approve it, so I don't think there's any -- there 23 may be bureaucratic delays, but I don't think there's going 24 to be any questions about -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 10-27-00 116 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- about our 2 regulations. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think it's a 4 little -- my personal feeling is, it's a little presumptuous 5 of us to -- and also I think would it come across to the 6 public as kind of a waste of time if we approved it, sent it 7 to Austin to be approved, and then have a public hearing 8 after the fact. I mean, I -- that seems kind of odd to do 9 it that way, to me. That's why I say I'd rather have a 10 public hearing and then send it in. I don't think it's that 11 much of a delay. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, you would be 13 suggesting that whatever action taken today is a tentative 14 approval of the order which sets up a public hearing prior 15 to sending them to the State? Is that what you're saying? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Today we should 18 approve or disapprove the order and schedule a public 19 hearing. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mm-hmm. That public 21 hearing can be within -- 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Next Monday? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It can be Monday. I 24 think it needs to be a separate -- you know, a little bit 25 separated from the other. 10-27-00 117 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Separately timed. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And after the public 3 hearing, is there a final vote taken by this Court as to the 4 adoption of these rules? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, and then sent to 6 Austin. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't expect that 8 we're going to hear a lot new about people's opinions on the 9 rules. I feel like I've attended about 15 public hearings 10 over the -- over the last two years, either at the U.G.R.A. 11 or in connection with our State Representative hearings, and 12 we've even had the same discussions in our -- in our 13 meetings, so I don't expect any surprises. So, I'm -- 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I won't surprise you, 15 but I will reprise it. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Some people support 17 change and others don't. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. I'll make a 19 motion that we set a public hearing -- let me change that. 20 I'll make a motion that we approve the order adopting rules 21 for Kerr County for On-Site Septic -- On-Site Sewage 22 Facilities as presented, and set a public hearing on same 23 for Monday, November 3rd, at 1 o'clock. 24 MS. SOVIL: What time? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Did you say "approve" 10-27-00 118 1 or "adopt"? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 1 o'clock. We have to 3 approve it for the public hearing. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. I wanted to 5 make sure you didn't say adopt. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think I said "approved" 7 for public hearing. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I second. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that 10 the Court approve the On-Site Sewage Facilities proposed 11 order, and set a public hearing on the same for 1 p.m. next 12 Monday, which will be the 3rd -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 3rd. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: -- of November, at 1 p.m. Any 15 further question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, 16 signify by raising your right hand. 17 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Next item 21 is Item 18, consideration and discussion and appropriate 22 action on appointments to the Library Advisory Board, and 23 the methodology in connection with those. Commissioner 24 Williams? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I had a telephone 10-27-00 119 1 message from the City this morning, a little bit of alarm in 2 their voice as to why this was on the agenda. It's on the 3 agenda for a couple very good reasons. First of all, as my 4 memorandum says to the Court, at the request of Judge 5 Tinley, I reviewed that contract earlier this year, and I 6 found some items in there -- some areas in that contract 7 that really need to be addressed. One of them is the manner 8 in which appointments to the Library Board are -- are 9 handled. The caller also sent over this morning -- also 10 sent over a copy of the contract, which I thought, well, 11 perhaps this is something new. It's the same contract, and 12 it was approved back in 1991, as I understand, by Judge 13 Stacy, and nothing has been changed because we haven't 14 negotiated with the City to make changes. Am I correct, 15 Judge? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Far as I know. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, I'm correct. 18 And so Item 4 talks about membership on the Library Advisory 19 Board, and it talks about "whenever possible" -- those two 20 words automatically get my attention, because it's not 21 whenever possible -- "there shall be a minimum of four 22 members who reside outside of Kerrville in Kerr County for 23 appointment." It should guarantee that there are no fewer 24 than that, so I think we need to change these things. We 25 need to get back and talk with the City about how to make 10-27-00 120 1 this better. But what really gets my attention is the 2 manner in which it's handled. The City, through the Library 3 Board Director, looks at its -- its stack of applications, 4 or lets it be known that there may be some positions open, 5 and they take applications to fill the positions on the 6 Library Advisory Board, including ours. And the fax that 7 came over is in your packet, and it says, "The City Council 8 approved the appointments listed below to the Library 9 Board." Albert Edward Shults to replace Elizabeth Hughes. 10 Mary K. Mosty Hayes to replace Gerald Witt. That's Precinct 11 2 in Kerr County. And John David Lipscomb to replace 12 Margaret Brown. And Mr. Lipscomb sat through most of our 13 discussion this morning on other matters. I just really 14 believe the Court needs to address the issue of how these 15 appointments are made to joint boards in which we have a 16 financial obligation and responsibility, and this is as good 17 a time as any to do that. I don't have a problem with Mary 18 K. Mosty Hayes' appointment, and I would move for 19 appointment at the proper time. I don't know the other 20 gentleman. And I don't know that there's any reason why 21 John David Lipscomb, who's a City appointment, should even 22 be considered for discussion on Commissioners court. That 23 logic should almost be in the reverse. There shouldn't be a 24 lot of discussion over there about our appointments, but 25 they shouldn't make them for us, and that's the whole crux 10-27-00 121 1 of it. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Couldn't agree with 3 you more. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: How many of those appointments 5 -- what are the total number of that board, Commissioner? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I believe it's nine. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Nine? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I believe so. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: So, whenever possible, we 10 should at least be in the minority? Is that -- 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Whenever -- 12 JUDGE TINLEY: -- is that what I'm -- is that 13 what I'm reading? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Unless, of course, 15 there is -- circumstances prevail where a County appointment 16 may have moved up to the chair or something like that, 17 similar to what the Airport Board is. But, yeah, the answer 18 to your question is yes; four, and they get five. So, if 19 we're comfortable with that, okay. If we want to change 20 that, I don't know how you're going to divide one, but we 21 just need to know about these things in advance. We need to 22 advance the names of appointments to the City, and they can 23 concur if they wish. The process ought to start here. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: As to County appointments? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For County 10-27-00 122 1 appointments. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I share Commissioner 3 Williams' concerns, and tied to that is a concern that one 4 of the largest budget items we vote on is our share of the 5 cost of the library. I think it's $397,000 this year. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just a tad under 7 $400,000. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And it occurs to me 9 we don't have much input, we don't have any control, and we 10 have very little opportunity for input, and I'd like to see 11 that changed. I don't know if you can change it through 12 having the board members who represent the interests of the 13 County more closely, or if we can change it in the budget 14 process itself. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I think the 16 contract is available for renegotiation right now. We let 17 the City know in our joint meeting that we were not happy 18 with that and we wanted to address some of these items. 19 That's one of the two items particularly that needs to be 20 addressed, because they are not following through with 21 what -- even the spirit of the existing contract, and that 22 is to have the representative of this Court in on those 23 basic discussions. That's never happened, so we need to 24 address it. I think it would be appropriate for the Judge 25 to let them know we wish to renegotiate the contract. In 10-27-00 123 1 the meantime, I think we can approve some County 2 appointments. Does anybody know Albert Shults? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good man. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, super. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He has been in this 9 courtroom several times. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I just don't know 11 him, so I have no thought. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good guy. And Mrs. -- 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mary K. Mosty Hayes. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mrs. Hayes is a sister 15 of the former Library Director. So -- 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Keeping the Mosty 18 family involved in the library. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would move, 20 Judge -- we could continue to discuss it, but I would move 21 that the appointment of Mary K. Mosty Hayes for a term to 22 expire October 1, 2006, and Albert E. Shults for a term to 23 expire October 1, 2005, be approved by Commissioners Court, 24 and that the Judge initiate correspondence to -- to the 25 Mayor or the City Manager that we wish to rework the 10-27-00 124 1 contents of this existing agreement. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. For 4 the record, Commissioner Williams and I, over our joint 5 signatures, served notice on the City, in accordance with 6 Paragraph 9 of the existing contract, that we wished to 7 renegotiate that contract, and we've -- I've not heard a 8 specific response to that notice. And I assume Commissioner 9 Williams hasn't either? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I haven't either. 11 But your letter can certainly prompt them, push them a bit. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Maybe it needs to go 13 certified. Any further question or discussion on the 14 motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your 15 right hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Certified letter? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We'll give you the 21 $3.65; you can carry it down there. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're too funny, 23 Bill. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Next item on the agenda is 25 consideration and discussion and approval of a merit pay 10-27-00 125 1 raise policy to guide administration of County's merit pay 2 program. Commissioner Nicholson? 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Back in our budget 4 hearings, when we decided to establish a budget for merit 5 pay increases, the Court asked me to prepare a policy/ 6 procedure for administration of that budget, and 7 specifically directed that procedure should include not 8 granting any merit pay increases until April 1, 2004, so we 9 would have time to consider a policy and procedure and 10 implement it in an effective way. So, this is the first 11 step on that. This is a draft merit pay policy for Kerr 12 County for the consideration of this Court. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Was that a motion? 14 Or were you just introducing it? 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Oh, I thought surely 16 there'd be some discussion. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's why I asked. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: You move adoption? 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I move adoption of 20 this merit pay policy. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I'll second it, 22 get the discussion underway. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to 24 adopt the merit pay policy as presented. Questions or 25 discussion? All in favor of the motion -- 10-27-00 126 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Whoa, whoa. I wanted 2 to know if the personnel officer of the County was cool with 3 this. 4 MS. NEMEC: I have not seen it. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, there's a 6 little stumbling block. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Maybe yes, maybe no. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not really. I think 9 it would be wise to let her see it. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. I think that, 11 Barbara, you ought to have a chance to look at it before we 12 do it. 13 MS. NEMEC: I would like to. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You have two and a 15 half minutes. Not really. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: At this juncture, it's the 17 noon hour, and we'll stand in recess and reconvene at 1:30. 18 (Discussion off the record.) 19 (Recess taken from 11:59 a.m. to 1:30 p.m.) 20 - - - - - - - - - - 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, I will call the meeting 22 back to order of the Commissioners Court scheduled for this 23 date. We recessed at lunchtime. It's now just a few 24 minutes after 1:30. We were on Item 19, and we had a motion 25 and second on the table for the approval of the merit pay 10-27-00 127 1 policy as -- as presented. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'd like to make a 3 couple of comments on the policy as proposed. I think there 4 are two key things to it, and one of them is the definition 5 of meritorious job performance. It says that meritorious 6 job performance is accomplishment above and beyond the 7 normal job expectations, which improves work productivity by 8 reducing costs or increasing revenues. Meritorious job 9 performance is measurable, and has a positive impact on 10 budgets. So, kind of turning that around, what meritorious 11 job performance is not is simply doing -- performing the -- 12 the duties on your job description. And then it goes on to 13 say that if the performance is not measurable, then it's not 14 meritorious job performance. Then that's reinforced again 15 under procedures, under Nomination, including a description 16 of the employee's specific accomplishments that are beyond 17 the normal job expectations, and an accounting of the 18 financial impact the accomplishments have on productivity 19 and budgets. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Question. Can you 21 apply that to meritorious job performance on the part of a 22 law enforcement officer? Does the criteria hold? 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think if a 24 patrolman or deputy proposed and brought about procedures or 25 processes or methods that were an improvement and resulted 10-27-00 128 1 in the Sheriff's Department being able to accomplish its 2 mission better, that that would be an example of meritorious 3 job performance. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What about 5 performance on duty which was meritorious, extraordinary, 6 above that which was in the line of duty, as opposed to the 7 administrative side? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: May have a hard time 9 doing an accounting of financial impact. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: You're speaking of something 11 more in the nature of some sort of heroic action, Carnegie 12 Foundation nomination or something of that -- 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. I guess what I 14 want to make certain is that -- that we don't -- by reason 15 of this language, or the narrow window, we don't foreclose 16 meritorious consideration for law enforcement officers. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think your point's 18 a good one. As this is written, it would be easier for a 19 Sheriff's Department clerical or administrative person to 20 get an award than it would for an officer. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In the line of duty. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We probably need to 23 fix this loophole. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. I don't have a 25 suggestion how to do that, though. So -- 10-27-00 129 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- I guess a 2 similar comment, or same line anyway, is that it seems that 3 there are certain positions in the county that lend 4 themselves a lot -- that can qualify for a merit over other 5 positions a lot easier. I mean, I guess there's ways anyone 6 could, but in certain -- like, if you are in a situation 7 where you deal with emergency-type settings -- and I'm 8 thinking of Road and Bridge to start with -- like, you know, 9 because of floods and ice storms and things like that, they 10 have an opportunity to really go out and go the extra mile, 11 where someone who's, you know, doing license plate renewals 12 doesn't have as much of an opportunity to, because -- 13 because, I mean, they're -- you know, they -- it's just not 14 much opportunity there, the way I see it. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm just wondering how 17 you -- you know, how you balance that so that you don't, you 18 know, tilt the scales on this -- on the merit increases 19 toward certain departments that are more able to, you know, 20 have glamorous type, I guess, examples of above and beyond 21 the work. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think we probably 23 need to address the heroic activity, like Road and Bridge 24 and officers. I'm guessing, though, that it might be easy 25 for somebody that is in the license department over there 10-27-00 130 1 to -- to conceive of ways to do that work more efficiently. 2 They might observe that there are different cycles in there, 3 and some employees are not as occupied at certain times of 4 the month as others, and rearrange the work or do those 5 sorts of things to improve productivity. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I might -- 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's possible. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My other comment is that 9 the -- I'm willing to go along with something to see how it 10 works, though I'm not 100 percent, you know, convinced it's 11 a great idea. But, you know, I'm willing to give it a good 12 shot. I'm a little concerned about the timing. If we have 13 this meritorious thing set up in the fall -- or February 1, 14 nominations are due in, what about people that do something 15 that needs recognition, you know, in May? Or do they have 16 to wait until the following February, so that -- is it an 17 annual cycle that goes February to February? Is that what 18 we're looking at? Or do we do it again during the budget 19 process for the people that do it after the February 1 20 deadline? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't want to 22 presume to answer for Dave, but I think in our budget 23 discussions, we thought about it being annual. So, if the 24 activity came after we did the review, then that individual 25 would have to wait till the next review. I think that's how 10-27-00 131 1 I remember it. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We got to this by 3 some sort of a compromise, I think. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Exactly. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think I envisioned 6 that somebody -- some supervisor writes it up and brings it 7 to us and we act on it, but there were some concerns about 8 the budgeting process, and that's how we landed on the 9 April 1 date, I think. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just think it needs to 11 be clear in here what the period is so that people that, you 12 know, do something short, let's say -- 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, you could set 14 it up on the basis of a time period. I'm only using an 15 example of a 10-month time frame in which -- which 16 employees' activities could be considered. The department 17 head writes them up; in the 11th month, the Commissioners 18 approve them; in the 12th month, the cycle starts all over 19 again, something like that. And I didn't fix any months to 20 it, 'cause I hadn't thought it out. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: A principle of merit 22 pay is -- I'm not sure we can adhere to this -- is that the 23 motivational value and the reinforcement value of it is 24 stronger when you acknowledge and reward the performance 25 close to the performance. You know, ideally, a supervisor 10-27-00 132 1 would have a bag of money, and if somebody does something 2 right, they say, "Here's some money." But that's -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Be careful. There 4 are some supervisors who might like that idea. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I'm -- from what 6 you just said, it came to mind -- I probably shouldn't even 7 bring it up -- is maybe we should do it quarterly. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Quarterly. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, yeah. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So it's an ongoing 12 process throughout the year. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It still needs to be 14 written in here. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, whatever we do 16 needs to be clearly written so we have something to fall 17 back on for guidance. But these are some thoughts on -- and 18 I appreciate you taking a stab at coming up with a policy, 19 and it's not easy to write something like that. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Once a quarter might 21 be appropriate. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Why don't we table 23 it, and I'll write some different language that deals with 24 the, quote, heroic -- that's not exactly the proper term for 25 it. The extraordinary, one-time, out-of-the-ordinary thing. 10-27-00 133 1 And deal with the timing thing, and see if something like a 2 quarterly -- three or four times a year award period might 3 be appropriate. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Did the personnel 5 officer have any thoughts? 6 MS. NEMEC: I did. May I address them at 7 this time? Under Definitions, for employee, it says it's 8 excluding elected officials and department heads. I was 9 under the impression, when we were talking about this, that 10 this was going to include department heads. This last time 11 that elected officials received a -- a raise, the department 12 heads did not, and I think there was some discussion that 13 they're more of an employee-type position than -- than 14 elected officials, and they would be treated as that in the 15 merit policy. That's one of my questions I have. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good question. 17 MS. NEMEC: When are they going to be 18 evaluated for raises? We bring up elected officials at a 19 certain time, and then now we're bringing up employees. 20 Where are the department heads falling in all this? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Frankly, I think the 22 only exclusion would be elected officials. 23 MS. NEMEC: I would think so too. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good idea. 10-27-00 134 1 MS. NEMEC: My other question is under 2 Procedures, under Nomination, it says nominations are 3 confidential. I really feel that the nominations should be 4 put in their personnel file; therefore, they would be open 5 records and they would be open to the public. Or if anyone 6 came and requested to see the nominations that were turned 7 in for merit increases, I would think that those would be 8 open, not confidential. Anytime you're going to disburse 9 money to someone, if the public wants to see the background 10 as to why, I think we need to be able to show that to them. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would agree. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand your 13 point, Barbara, but I also understand the point that the 14 Commissioner was trying to make here, that up to a certain 15 point, they should be confidential. If a department head is 16 going to recognize an employee for meritorious activity, 17 then he's going to write that up. At that point, and up 18 through and including Commissioners Court's action on it, 19 which would probably be in executive session, would be 20 confidential. Once it goes into the personnel file and you 21 take action on it -- the Court takes action on it, 22 absolutely, I think you're correct. But I think that's kind 23 of a case of both. 24 MS. NEMEC: Okay. I just -- 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: My intent was that 10-27-00 135 1 denied nominations would be confidential. 'Cause -- 2 MS. NEMEC: Well, if an employee comes to me, 3 or any -- if anybody comes to me and wants to know -- to see 4 a file, why the increase was denied, I can't keep that from 5 them. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't -- I mean, I 7 think -- 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Dealing with other 9 agencies, what I've seen is that that's -- that situation 10 would be covered in executive session, and the nominations 11 that were denied would be sealed and not available to the 12 general public. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's a -- I think we 14 have to really refer to the County Attorney, 'cause I think 15 it's an issue as to whether -- what -- you know, some 16 records can be confidential, some can't. It's just whatever 17 the law requires. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, she's saying 19 that once -- once it goes in -- it needs to go into the 20 personnel file, and once it goes in there, then it's 21 wide-open. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, but do the 23 nominations go in, or the -- or the approval of the 24 nominations go in? That's, I think -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm with the 10-27-00 136 1 Commissioner on that. 2 MS. NEMEC: You know, just something to 3 consider and look into. Also, under Notification, 4 "Commissioners Court will notify supervisors of approved 5 nominations." If you could insert there, just to make sure 6 that we get word of it, supervisors and the Personnel 7 Department or County Treasurer, whichever you want to put. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes. 9 MS. NEMEC: And, under Communication, again, 10 there it says, "Merit Pay Awards. Name of awardees and the 11 basis of the award will be announced." I think there needs 12 to be something in there that says that those that were not 13 awarded an increase, that you will also name those and 14 explain to the elected official or department head who 15 presented those nominations as to why they were not awarded. 16 And that's all I have. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's where the war 18 begins. It's the beginning of the war. 19 MS. NEMEC: I mean, if -- you know, and I'm 20 speaking for myself, and I'm sure I speak for everybody else 21 when I say if -- if I present a nomination to you all, 22 and -- and my employee does not -- is not granted a merit 23 increase, I want to know why, and I'm sure everybody else is 24 going to want to know that. So, I think there has to be 25 something in here related to that. 10-27-00 137 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I agree, the 2 supervisor needs to know. Just the whole workforce doesn't 3 need to know. What you -- what you get into there is what's 4 sometimes referred to as malicious implementation, that 5 those who may not like the policy will -- will administer it 6 in a way that makes it look bad. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: You had offered a motion 8 previously. Are you withdrawing that motion? 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'll withdraw that 10 motion. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: And you had seconded that. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll withdraw it. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Satisfactory with you? Any 14 further discussion on this item? 15 MR. MOTLEY: I have just a point. It seems 16 to me like that somebody is denied -- if some person that's 17 nominated for a raise under this program is denied the 18 raise, it could almost be assumed that somebody else who was 19 nominated from that department or other department was more 20 meritorious or more deserving of the merit raise. I don't 21 know if you'd -- I don't know if you have to go back and 22 say, "Well, this one didn't get it because this one did," or 23 something like that. I mean, you're going to choose the 24 one -- or the people that are most deserving. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're only going to 10-27-00 138 1 choose those that the supervisor or department head 2 nominates, or the elected official nominates. 3 MR. MOTLEY: No. No, for the pool of people 4 to consider from, but the ones who get it would seem to be 5 the ones who are determined to be the most meritorious as 6 presented. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 8 MR. MOTLEY: And the ones who don't get it 9 would be, maybe, "Close, but no cigar," so to speak. I 10 don't know. I'm just -- I'm not sure you have to go through 11 every one of the files and say, "You didn't get it because 12 Buster did," or -- or whatever. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, that goes back 14 to what Commissioner Nicholson was saying; that if you 15 handle these in executive session, the declinations are 16 sealed, and that's the end of it. 17 MR. MOTLEY: The open records -- I haven't 18 looked specifically at this issue, but I have done some 19 looking at personnel files, and personnel files are, 20 generally speaking, open records. And the documents -- 21 documents are what we're talking about for open records, and 22 not anything short of a document, but a document would 23 normally -- especially pertaining to pay, would be an open 24 record, unless it covers a sensitive item such as Social 25 Security number, home phone, home address, information 10-27-00 139 1 relating to or identifying the person has a family. Those 2 items are generally, you know, excepted from disclosure. 3 But I haven't looked specifically at this. I'm saying, 4 generally speaking, I'm not sure of an exception that would 5 prohibit those documents from being examined before the 6 final decision is made and a copy of the recommendation or 7 the unsuccessful recommendation is put in their file. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Until the Court acts 9 on it, there is no document in the personnel file. It's 10 merely -- 11 MR. MOTLEY: Not in the personnel file? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- merely the Court 13 recommending -- 14 MR. MOTLEY: There would be documents 15 generated by the department head. That would probably be 16 the property of the Commissioners Court, so I think they may 17 be subject to Open Records. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, we've got -- 19 we need the answer to that. 20 MR. MOTLEY: As I say, I haven't specifically 21 looked for other exceptions, but I'm -- I'm speaking in 22 generalities now. And I think Barbara had said it well by 23 saying it's just something that needs further study, which 24 we'll be happy to do. 25 MS. SOVIL: You also need to consider that in 10-27-00 140 1 personnel -- in executive session, under personnel, the 2 employee that's being discussed has a right to either be in 3 there or have it discussed in open session. You can't 4 summarily discuss an employee without the employee knowing 5 about it, without having an opportunity to pull it out. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Would you check on 7 that too, David? 8 MR. MOTLEY: Right. And one other thing 9 along those lines. Every employee has a special granted 10 right for access to their own personnel files, through 11 themselves and through an attorney. They can look at their 12 own files. So -- 13 MS. SOVIL: They also have access to that 14 portion of the executive session records that discusses 15 them. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, the only other 17 thought I had was -- my mind goes to the administrative 18 assistant that works for this Commissioners Court, that 19 works for five redneck men. We need to have a category here 20 for hazardous pay. Would you consider that? 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah, we can put 22 that in. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Just for Thea. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Very good. 10-27-00 141 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything further in 2 connection with that item? We'll move on to Item 20, 3 consider and discuss authorizing American Legion Post 208 to 4 utilize the courthouse grounds and facilities for annual 5 Veteran's Day ceremony, and prior to and subsequent to the 6 ceremony, for setup and take-down of appropriate equipment. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to 10 approve the agenda item. Any further question or 11 discussion? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have a question, 13 Judge. In the letter to you from Mr. Arrendell -- 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Right. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- the last paragraph 16 there, is -- it says that restrooms on the Sidney Baker side 17 of the courthouse be open and available. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: We had a hand go up right back 19 here. There's the man. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sorry. 21 MR. HOLEKAMP: What's the date? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: The 10th. Monday, the 10th. 23 MR. HOLEKAMP: Monday, the 10th? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 11 a.m. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have a -- was -- we 10-27-00 142 1 have a second, don't we? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, I seconded. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question I have is going 5 back to an e-mail I got regarding the date of the holiday 6 from -- I think it Linda Uecker. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, it was. We all 8 got it. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that we're -- we're 10 observing the holiday, I mean, on Monday, which I thought 11 was generally done now, and then there -- but her e-mail 12 says that most other entities were observing it on the 11th, 13 the actual day. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is one -- I saw 15 Linda out at the Ag Barn out there Friday night -- or 16 Thursday night in the judging, and we talked about this, 17 'cause she wanted to know whether or not we got her e-mail. 18 This is one of the -- one of the holidays that is the 19 exception to the Monday governmental "make everything nice 20 on Monday" holiday rule, because it's supposed to be the 21 11th day -- the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month, 22 no matter when it falls. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. But the reason I 24 brought it up, it's referred to here as Monday being a 25 national holiday, which my question is, is Monday a national 10-27-00 143 1 holiday? It's a County holiday, but not a national holiday. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not a national 3 holiday. 4 MS. NEMEC: The reason we did that is 5 because -- because K.I.S.D. is observing it on Monday, and 6 so we decided we -- there was discussion on that, that we 7 would go with the holiday that the school was observing. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's right. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's true. 10 MS. NEMEC: And I called Judge Tinley to 11 doublecheck on that, 'cause there was some question after 12 the holiday schedule had been put out, and that's the 13 reason. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: The one that was adopted by 15 the Court. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, it was. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: We had, I think, two different 18 holiday schedules that we were looking at at the time that 19 it was approved, right at the tail end of the budget 20 process, as I recall. The one that was selected included 21 this particular holiday for Monday, the 10th. 22 MS. NEMEC: And on that comparison, I had 23 that it was a federal holiday on the 11th, but yet K.I.S.D. 24 had it on the 10th, so it was just a decision that needed to 25 be made, and that was the decision that was made. 10-27-00 144 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, we are talking 2 about -- Glenn, is the Maintenance Department possibly 3 paying overtime to someone for two hours? Is that what 4 we're talking about? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Glenn? 6 MR. HOLEKAMP: No, I'll come in and it won't 7 cost you anything. 8 MS. NEMEC: Just remember that when you're 9 doing the merit evaluation. (Laughter.) 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It has an impact on 11 the budget, too. 12 MR. HOLEKAMP: What are the times? I don't 13 have any of that. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: 11 a.m. on the 10th. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 11 a.m. I wish -- you 16 know, and I voted on the holiday schedule, and I wish I'd -- 17 not frequently, but occasionally I wish I would think things 18 through more. I really think this is a holiday that should 19 be held on the actual day, not on Monday. And I don't -- 20 you know. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: At the time that Ms. Uecker 22 brought it to my attention about the hiatus with other 23 governmental entities, as I recall, it was last Thursday. 24 And, of course, our agenda had already been posted. And, 25 you know, I told her if there were going to be any change, 10-27-00 145 1 the change needed to be made by the Court, since it's been 2 adopted by the Court, and there wasn't going to be another 3 meeting till after this particular holiday. And, as a 4 matter of fact, that it would be on the 11th that we would 5 hold the meeting. So, I assumed that was pretty much the 6 end of it, since there wasn't time to really address it. 7 Any further question or discussion? All in favor of the -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Without taking the 9 holiday, we'll be meeting on the holiday. We meet on the 10 11th, is our next Commissioners Court? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, we will be meeting on 12 Tuesday, the 11th. We surely will. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Make a note to get 14 that right next year. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. All in favor of the 16 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 17 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Someone's 21 upset about it out there, I would assume. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: May have been some 23 Christmas decorations. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, falling down. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Bundle of lights 10-27-00 146 1 coming down on your head. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Next item on the agenda, Item 3 21. I've been asked to pass that item, since there's 4 nothing to consider at this time. Next item is 22, consider 5 and discuss voting on behalf of the -- of Kerr County for 6 the Board of Directors for the Kerr Central Appraisal 7 District. The information in your book indicates who's been 8 nominated for the Board of Directors, and it's -- I believe 9 we've also got the number of votes allocated to each. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move we vote 907 votes 11 for Paula Rector. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that 14 Kerr County cast all of its votes for the Board of Directors 15 for the KCAD District Board, all of its votes being 907, for 16 Paula Rector. Any further question or discussion? All in 17 favor of the motion -- 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I've got some 19 discussion. The way this works, this means that the City of 20 Ingram and Divide ISD, maybe others, don't have a chance of 21 getting their nominations -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They don't have any 23 chance. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's all. That's 25 my only question. 10-27-00 147 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 2 comment? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 3 your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Next item, 8 consider and discuss approving contract between Kerr County 9 and the following volunteer fire departments and authorize 10 County Judge to sign the same? Tierra Linda V.F.D., Turtle 11 Creek V.F.D., Elm Pass V.F.D., and Divide V.F.D. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 15 the approval of the contracts and authorize County Judge to 16 sign the same. Any question or discussion? All in favor of 17 the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 18 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Are you 22 ready to go back to the other items now, or do you want to 23 go on with the bills and so forth? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why don't we clean up 25 that other item? 10-27-00 148 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Hmm? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why don't we clean up 3 this outstanding item? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: We've got several of them. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me first go back to -- do 7 we have anything further on -- on Item 12, the location? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Thought we would. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I visited with Mr. Etter, 11 and told -- asked him -- well, I guess two parts of it. The 12 other one was really more related to Item 13. But I asked 13 that, if the current employees at U.G.R.A. were willing to 14 serve -- to work for the County on a contract basis for from 15 a couple of days to a week or so, could those -- well, small 16 steps. Could that current staff continue to use the 17 U.G.R.A. office space? And the answer was yes. The -- and 18 I limited it just really for a couple of days, until we made 19 the decision on hiring, because the difference -- the 20 question -- and it wasn't no, that we can't after that, but 21 if we choose not to hire some or all or whatever of the 22 current staff, I think the feeling that I had was that they 23 were not real comfortable at having new people moving into 24 that office space for a short period of time. So, there was 25 kind of -- it was -- you know, it's fine for probably two or 10-27-00 149 1 three days for the current staff to continue to use that 2 space, assuming we can work out a contract arrangement with 3 the current staff. And I've not heard back from all of the 4 current staff on that point. I have heard back from Stuart. 5 Stuart said that he would be willing to do it, but noting 6 that because of his new child, that the time would be a 7 little bit structured. And I just -- I passed on to the 8 current staff that -- as to the amount we would pay would be 9 whatever their gross salary is, put it down to a per-day -- 10 per-day or a per-hour basis, without any deductions; that 11 there would be no benefits of any type associated with that, 12 just purely be a contract basis. But, like I say, I've only 13 heard back from Stuart definitely. He would be willing to 14 do that. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: If we were to deem it 16 appropriate to do it for more than a few days, but continue 17 to use those same individuals on a contract temporary basis, 18 say, for a period of maybe up to two weeks, since there 19 would be no change of -- of personnel who would be on their 20 premises, did you inquire of Mr. Etter whether -- did the 21 important thing seem to be who it was, rather than the 22 length of time? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it was a 24 combination of him thinking through -- I mean, very quickly 25 giving me an answer and thinking through the ramifications 10-27-00 150 1 of what all this means. And that's -- and what it all means 2 is going to have some basis as to who we hire. So, the 3 answer is yes, that had some bearing on it. They're trying 4 to accommodate -- they understand the situation, but they 5 don't want to get -- make a situation -- get into an awkward 6 situation themselves, either. So, he asked that we come 7 back and revisit with him after we make our hiring 8 decisions. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And, Judge, I think 10 probably helpful information to that question is, both Janet 11 Robinson and Greg Etter have told us repeatedly that they're 12 not going to do -- do something to let this drop between the 13 cracks; they're going to work with us, cooperate with us to 14 make sure the transition is successful. So, be my guess 15 that if we needed more than a few days, that they'd be 16 amenable to that, so long as it wasn't new people. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. That's kind of, I 18 think, the feeling that I have. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It would seem to 20 me -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: So long as -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not new people. When you 23 bring new people in, it changes the mix from their 24 standpoint. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, the first order 10-27-00 151 1 of business would be for us to have personal service 2 contracts for the -- with people holding those existing 3 positions, under whatever terms? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If they choose to -- 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- accept the, I guess -- 7 sort of the quasi-offer that I made. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On behalf of you. So, I 10 think -- I mean, I think the answer is that we're having to 11 put this on the agenda again for next week, but for the time 12 being, Monday-Tuesday, I think we will have -- certainly 13 have some staff, Stuart being one. Stuart's agreed to using 14 that current office space. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Don't we have to take 16 some kind of an action that would authorize the Court's 17 subcommittee to finalize personal service agreements with 18 certain of those personnel for this period of time? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think so, but I think 20 it's under Agenda Item 1.13. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, wherever it is. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think -- so I 23 think, on the -- on 1.12, I'll just make a motion that the 24 O.S.S.F. subcommittee, being Commissioner Nicholson and 25 myself, work out arrangements to continue to use the office 10-27-00 152 1 space at U.G.R.A. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Until? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: For the first part of the 4 week of November 3rd. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't want you to be limited 6 to that. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, okay. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Open-ended as possible. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Well -- 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Up to two weeks. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: For up to two weeks. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Because I -- Glenn's response 13 a while ago is, if everything falls into place. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: You know. And Murphy's Law 16 commonly prevails in construction projects, as I'm sure 17 you're aware of as well as anybody. I think I'd like to 18 give us as much latitude as possible, because of whatever 19 may strike us in all respects, be it with regard to -- to 20 space, with regard to those personal service contracts, 21 having them negotiated on an hourly or daily basis, with us 22 having the ability to -- you know, not limit us to the 23 number of days, necessarily. Now, maybe you want to cap it 24 at not more than 15 days or something like that, but just to 25 give us as much latitude as possible, because we've got a 10-27-00 153 1 construction project with all that goes into it. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, I'll just make a 3 motion to work out an arrangement with U.G.R.A. to use their 4 office space for up to November 15th. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that 7 the committee be authorized to attempt to work out an 8 arrangement with the U.G.R.A. to utilize their office space 9 for O.S.S.F. activities and/or floodplain, I assume you're 10 talking about also? No? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: No. O.S.S.F., not proceeding 13 beyond November 15th. Any further question or discussion? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Only question I have, 15 does this qualify as above-and-beyond service that 16 Commissioner Nicholson and I are doing? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. Get the County 18 Judge to write you up. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm working on it right now. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I thought so. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 22 comments? Discussion? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That may come under 24 hazardous pay, if I can get that put in there. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 10-27-00 154 1 JUDGE TINLEY: We got to get the policy in 2 place first. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I know. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All in favor of the motion, 5 signify by raising your right hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. The next 10 item that we got is 13, going back to consideration and 11 discussion of the transition schedule for the transfer of 12 the O.S.S.F. program from U.G.R.A. to Kerr County. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I can't remember why 14 this is a carry-over item. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, it's kind of 16 transition items, but I'm not sure we can act on them the 17 way we need to act on them to do that item. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, based on what we just 19 did. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You can act on it on 21 1.15 -- by revisiting 1.15. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What is it we want 23 to do? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think we need to 25 do a couple things. We need to authorize -- I guess it's 10-27-00 155 1 going to be Commissioner Nicholson and myself, to work out a 2 contract arrangement -- 3 MS. SOVIL: Be a transition schedule. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- if possible. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You can tie that 6 thought, personal service contracts for a period not to 7 exceed, into 1.15 and tack it onto what you've already done, 8 which was setting up the procedure for evaluations. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Make a motion. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: I think that's right. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll move it. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me go ahead and call 15 13 again. We'll reconsider consideration and discussion of 14 process for hiring Environmental Health Department 15 personnel, in addition to the other items on the table. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Motion? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I would move 18 that the Court authorize the subcommittee for Environmental 19 Health purposes to negotiate and enter into personal service 20 contracts with employees who currently hold such jobs for a 21 period of time not to exceed two weeks, and that the 22 previously approved hiring process likewise be included -- 23 reiterated, whatever. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Do I hear a second? 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 10-27-00 156 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Any questions or comments? 2 All in -- all in favor of the motion, signify by raising 3 your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have one other item on 9 this that we need to address. After a visit with Ken Graber 10 a few minutes ago, we need to appoint a D.R. to be able to 11 -- we -- we are the authorized agent, but we are appointing 12 a -- I'm not -- in my mind, it's not a different D.R., but 13 if we go with Stuart, we have to -- you know, we need to 14 appoint a D.R. during this interim period. So -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's probably true, 16 yeah. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, we can do that and 18 notify them, and that keeps everyone in full compliance, and 19 no one in the county can complain that we're doing something 20 without the right authority, because we're -- we have 21 someone who's qualified as a D.R. So, I think we need to 22 make -- I'll make a motion that, in the personal service 23 contract with Mr. Barron, assuming we can negotiate such 24 contract, it will also include remaining as the Designated 25 Representative for Kerr County. 10-27-00 157 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that, 3 in the personal service contract to be negotiated with 4 Mr. Stuart Barron, if any, that he be designated as the 5 Designated Representative of Kerr County for O.S.S.F. 6 purposes. Any further questions or discussion? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The other comment is, 8 we're also -- in case there's a problem with that, we're in 9 the process of getting a list of other designated 10 representatives in Kerr County, because we have to have one, 11 and T.C.E.Q. will help; they're working with us on that. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or 13 comments? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 14 your right hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. We've now 19 got to Item 16 we're going to revisit, the policy as 20 redrafted concerning the authority of the Manager/Field 21 Representative of Kerr County Environmental Health 22 Department, redress of grievance progress, organizational 23 relationship of the Manager and his or her staff with 24 Commissioners Court. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For you to look at. 10-27-00 158 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You've got in front 2 of you a redrafted policy, and Commissioner Williams has 3 made another suggested change, which seems appropriate to 4 me. Would you read that, Jonathan? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Manager of the 6 Environmental Health Department shall advise the 7 Commissioner in whose precinct dispute arises and shall 8 schedule the grievance to be heard in a regular or special 9 meeting of the Commissioners Court. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree with that. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Can I have it back? 13 I move that we approve the new policy as -- as written, and 14 as with the change proposed by Commissioner Williams. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that 17 the -- that the policy, as redrafted and presented, be 18 approved. Any further question or discussion? If not, all 19 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: A question just popped 25 in my mind. When he notifies the respective Commissioner, 10-27-00 159 1 that doesn't necessarily mean that it has to be done in 2 writing; just by phone call would be fine. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just tell us so 4 you're not blindsided with something. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If he wants to put it 7 in writing to protect himself, that's better. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We'll go back and 9 revisit Item 17, consider and discuss, approve an order 10 adopting rules of Kerr County, Texas for On-Site Sewage 11 Facilities and authorize the County Judge to submit the 12 proposed rules to the Texas Commission on Environmental 13 Quality for approval, and setting public hearing on the same 14 if necessary. 15 MS. SOVIL: Y'all did that, Judge. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We took care of that. 17 MS. SOVIL: Commissioner Letz -- it's set for 18 a public hearing at 1 o'clock on Monday. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: I apologize. I thought there 20 were some things hanging loose on that, about the chicken 21 and the egg aspects of it. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- well, there 23 are, but we're just proceeding. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All right, good enough. Okay. 25 I don't know where you gentlemen are, but I'm over to 10-27-00 160 1 Executive Session. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm with you. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Anybody got anything to do in 4 Executive Session? All right. We'll blow by that, and 5 let's go to the approval agenda. Time to pay the bills, 6 gentlemen. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's see. Don't 8 anybody move. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I move we pay the 10 bills. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that 13 we pay the bills. I have one question. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: As I. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Page 8. Constable Precinct 1, 16 Constable Precinct 3. We authorized both of them to get 17 radios in the last budget. The number given was $600. We 18 got the same kind of radio. Precinct 1 indicates it's got a 19 microphone with it. Precinct 3 does not indicate it has a 20 microphone. Is that the difference? 21 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't know. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If it doesn't, how's 23 he going to speak? Who's going to hear him? 24 MR. TOMLINSON: I imagine -- I don't know. I 25 can just look at the bill. 10-27-00 161 1 JUDGE TINLEY: If not, how come Precinct 3 2 constable can buy the same radio for $578 that cost $639.50 3 in Precinct 1? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a good 5 question. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Precinct 1's a 7 high-dollar area. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Of course, we're 9 better. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: High-maintenance, 11 Precinct 1. 12 (Discussion off the record.) 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: She seems to think 14 that it has something to do with the clip-on -- 15 MS. LAVENDER: The clip-on microphone that 16 attaches. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I didn't think I was 18 going to have to break out the bills. My personal stash. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: 5496 and 5501. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm sure both of these 21 items have been purchased, and probably are here and we own 22 them. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How much did we 25 authorize them to spend? 10-27-00 162 1 JUDGE TINLEY: $600. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And one constable 3 spent $640 and went over the amount that this Commissioners 4 Court authorized? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: In your precinct, as I recall. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand that. I 7 was trying to avoid that kind of conversation. 8 MR. TOMLINSON: One does have a lapel mic, 9 and the other one doesn't. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: The other one doesn't. That 11 is the difference. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: Because the base price is 13 $578. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's what my constable 15 spent. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's don't go there. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: $578. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't think that we 19 should spend over $600. Not $639.50. $600. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm right. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we need to 23 start -- we said we were going to start holding them to it, 24 follow the budget. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. 10-27-00 163 1 Absolutely. I will not vote for $639.50. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: There's a motion on the table 3 to pay the bills. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'll withdraw it. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can we just amend it 7 to exclude that particular one, or cap it at $600? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just pay the $600. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Somebody else needs to 11 come up with $39.50. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: I'm not going to come up with 13 $39.50. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I know. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. But the 16 elected -- 17 MR. TOMLINSON: It will be one of those cold 18 days if I do. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: You think it was chilly this 20 morning? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, but that elected 22 official that has spent more than we authorized him to spend 23 can come up with it. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or you could combine 25 the expenditure of both of them and average them, and he 10-27-00 164 1 only has to spend $17.50 more. Whichever. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, $600 -- let's 3 put -- let's change that to $600 so we can pay the bill. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the motion's been 5 withdrawn. Do you want to move to pay the bills, with the 6 exception of that item? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not until I get my 8 question answered. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, I'm sorry. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Page 15. 11 MR. TOMLINSON: What's the final on this? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're going to get to 14 it in just a minute. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: Oh. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's our new 17 motto: "Don't try this at home. We're experts." 18 (Laughter.) 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do we still have this 20 service at Ingram Dam? Is this around-the-year service now? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Port-a-pottys. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think they're 23 supposed to be continued till the end of September. 24 MR. TOMLINSON: What page are you on? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 15. 10-27-00 165 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Think it's supposed 2 to have been discontinued the end of September. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is probably the 4 final bill right here. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Check it next time. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're going to watch 7 it next time, those port-a-pottys out at Ingram Dam. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Don't go driving out 9 there looking at my port-a-pottys. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You ought to check 11 and see he's not using them. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I move that we 13 amend these bills, 10-551-499, to read $600 even. And, with 14 that, I move to pay the bills. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that 17 -- to pay the bills, with the exception of the amount to be 18 charged to Account Number 10-551-499 be reduced to $600 from 19 $639.50. Is that correct? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir, it is. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Any questions or discussion? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. My question -- 23 I don't recall ever doing this before. What happens, 24 Barbara? 25 MS. NEMEC: We're going to have to void -- 10-27-00 166 1 MR. TOMLINSON: Void a check. 2 MS. NEMEC: -- a check and reissue for the 3 amount that you approved. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. But that's it, 5 and you don't mind doing that, do you? 6 MS. NEMEC: Well, I don't like it, but I'll 7 do it. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I didn't ask you if 9 you liked it. You don't mind? 10 MS. NEMEC: I don't mind. I don't like it, 11 but I don't mind. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're exited about 13 it, aren't you? 14 MS. NEMEC: I'll be happy to do it. I don't 15 have anything to do this afternoon. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: A new experience. Happy to 17 participate. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It is a new 19 experience. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 21 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 22 your right hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 10-27-00 167 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Do we have 2 any budget amendments? Any late bills? 3 MR. TOMLINSON: I have three. One's to Lone 4 Star Products, Inc., for $20. It's a registration fee for 5 Leonard Odom for a workshop. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the only one? 7 MR. TOMLINSON: No. Another one is to Ford 8 Motor Credit. It's for $35,997.02. It's for the initial 9 payment on the -- the '04 patrol cars. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: That's four of them? 11 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. And, finally, one to me 12 for $264.42 for lodging at a conference I just went to. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: May have a hard time getting 14 that one included. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: I thought I got a good deal, 16 $78 a day. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: For food? 18 MR. TOMLINSON: No, this is just lodging. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did you fill out one 20 of your little forms? 21 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where is that form? 23 MR. TOMLINSON: You've already approved it. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 25 MS. SOVIL: We approved one today. 10-27-00 168 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move we pay the late 2 bills. 3 (Discussion off the record.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Are we talking about hand 5 checks too? 6 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Including hand 9 checks. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait just a second. 11 What are you saying? 12 MS. SOVIL: He doesn't know about the new 13 form you approved today. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. Tommy, you 15 probably have a thrashing coming. Did you use the new form? 16 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're okay, 'cause 18 we just approved it today. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He's not here; give us 20 the money back. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion to authorize 22 payment of the late bills and issuance of hand checks. Do I 23 hear a second? 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and a second. 10-27-00 169 1 Any question or discussion? All in favor of the motion to 2 authorize the late payment of Lone Star Rentals, $20; Ford 3 Motor Credit Corporation, $35,997.02; and Tommy Tomlinson, 4 $264.42, and issuance of hand checks accordingly, signify by 5 raising your right hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, before you 11 move -- before the Auditor leaves, would somebody please 12 explain to me, so I can explain it to my Justice of the 13 Peace, the action of the Court at the last meeting, Court 14 Order Number 28365, in which the Court deleted the -- or 15 transferred, I'm not sure which, $3,334 in the Justice of 16 the Peace's in Precincts 2, 3, and 4, and put it into Mental 17 Health? Could somebody just enlighten me as to what that's 18 all about so that I can enlighten an irate judge? 19 MR. TOMLINSON: I visited with the Judge 20 today. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 22 MR. TOMLINSON: I think we're okay. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're okay? 24 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't need to stir 10-27-00 170 1 the pot? 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'd still like to 3 hear it, for another irate judge. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I figured you got it 5 too. 6 MR. TOMLINSON: The Treasurer and I visited 7 about this after lunch, and that's where I was when one of 8 my employees was trying to find me. But I think the -- what 9 the Court did was amend the budget according to the court 10 order that was passed in the budget workshop; namely, 11 that -- that $6,000 be added to the Mental Health line item 12 in the County Court budget. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Six? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Added 10. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah, $16,000. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Six what? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Added 10 to the existing 6. 18 MR. TOMLINSON: Added $10,000 to the existing 19 $6,000. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: With the understanding 22 that -- that the total salary for each Justice remained the 23 same. In other words, we did an amendment to remove $3,333 24 from the salary line item in the Justice of the Peace 25 budget, and moved it to the Mental Health line item in the 10-27-00 171 1 County Court budget. That reflects what actually happened 2 in the budget workshop. The issue was with -- you know, 3 after that fact was that, prior to today, the judges were 4 paid on a quarterly basis on the -- based on the month that 5 they served at the State Hospital. What happened was that, 6 for two months, the reduction in -- in the monthly salary, 7 of their regular salary that came out of their budget was 8 reduced almost $250 a month, so that was a significant 9 reduction in their cash flow on a monthly basis. And, like 10 all of us in here, we have monthly obligations that -- you 11 know, that we have to meet, and it put them in a hardship by 12 causing, you know, almost 12 percent of their income to come 13 every four months. So, the Treasurer and I decided that 14 maybe it would be better if we paid those justices the same 15 each paycheck, rather than pay the mental health hearings on 16 a quarterly basis. That would -- that would even out 17 their -- their monthly revenue. I don't -- we didn't see 18 any reason, you know, not to do it otherwise. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Bottom line -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Problem's solved. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: Bottom line, the problem is 22 solved. I mean, the bottom line is that they won't see a 23 difference in the amount of their check. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Their annual compensation 25 is unchanged. 10-27-00 172 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Their annual income is 2 unchanged. And apparently what happened was, I was not 3 aware of -- of the -- of the cash flow, how that was 4 affected. I assumed it had been leveled out, because it was 5 ordered not to be increased, but not to be decreased, so I 6 assumed it was level. Apparently, the Treasurer had been 7 paying the mental health for years, unbeknownst to me, but 8 had only been paying it to the particular J.P. during the 9 months in which they heard these cases, rather than 10 spreading it out over the whole year. And when their salary 11 was reduced and their Mental Health portion was increased by 12 a corresponding amount, they had four real fat months and 13 eight kind of lean months. So, what they've done is they've 14 leveled this thing out, since the policy is not any more, 15 but not any less, so that their cash flow is now level. Is 16 that correct? 17 MR. TOMLINSON: That's correct. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: That's what they were seeking. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, if I call my J.P. 20 today, I'm not going to get an earful, right? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You might. 22 MR. TOMLINSON: Can't guarantee that. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Tommy, one more 24 time. 25 MR. TOMLINSON: Not because of that. 10-27-00 173 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: These three J.P.'s 2 that participate in these mental health hearings, they did 3 get a paycheck or two or three that was less than it would 4 have been had we evened it out over the year? 5 MR. TOMLINSON: One of them did. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: One of them did? 7 MR. TOMLINSON: The Justice of the Peace 4 8 was paid this month for the mental health hearings. The 9 other two were not. So, we will adjust two J.P.'s the same, 10 and J.P. 4 slightly different to -- to offset the amount 11 that he's already been paid. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Now, this J.P. 4, 13 he's a large man. I'm going to explain this to him. 14 MR. TOMLINSON: We'll make him happy. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Are we going to be 16 taking some money back out of -- 17 MR. TOMLINSON: No. No, we will not do that. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: He's the one that -- that was 19 getting fat this month. He's the one that was getting more. 20 MR. TOMLINSON: Right, that's correct, 21 actually was. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, now that 23 you've explained it, though, their -- the grievance has more 24 legitimacy, in my mind, than it did from what I understood 25 before. We -- we altered the way we were paying them, and 10-27-00 174 1 we didn't give them advance notice of that. 2 MR. TOMLINSON: No. We've always paid them 3 quarterly for -- for mental health. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 5 MS. NEMEC: They didn't give us notice to do 6 it different -- 7 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 8 MS. NEMEC: -- is what the problem is. So, 9 we kept doing it just the way it's always been done. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: And I didn't know how it was 11 paid. I assumed it was just level throughout the year, but 12 it obviously wasn't. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't want to 14 belabor this -- 15 MS. NEMEC: 'Cause what happens is, if a J.P. 16 is scheduled for a certain month and -- and, for whatever 17 reason, that J.P. can't make it for that month, then they 18 rotate, and then sometimes you end up not working your full 19 months that you're scheduled to. And, if that happens, 20 that's another issue we're going to have to deal with at 21 that time. But we just thought we'll cross that when we get 22 to it, if that happens. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: But, in the instant 24 case, as far as J.P. 4 is concerned, he had been getting 25 paid every four months for this, and his check so far in 10-27-00 175 1 this calendar year reflected that old way, but now we're 2 going to change it to a new level paycheck? 3 MR. TOMLINSON: Right, that's correct. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: That was the problem I had 6 called you about late last week, when I got an earful from 7 the same judges that you two guys got an earful from. So -- 8 but we solved the problem. It was strictly a cash flow 9 problem. 10 MR. TOMLINSON: That's all it was. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: All it was. And when you 12 level out the payment, that solves the cash flow problem. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Minutes -- I don't have 15 any minutes. Monthly reports. I have before me monthly 16 reports from the District Clerk, Justice of the Peace 17 Precinct 1, Justice of the Peace Precinct 2. Do I hear a 18 motion that these reports be approved as presented? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that 22 monthly reports as presented of the District Clerk, J.P. 1, 23 and J.P. 2 be approved. Any question or discussion? All in 24 favor of the notion, signify by raising your right hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10-27-00 176 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I sat in there 5 last week and read minutes till I was cross-eyed. Why is it 6 we don't have minutes? 7 MS. SOVIL: 'Cause they're the first of the 8 month. 9 MS. ALFORD: Only the first of the month. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, we do it -- okay. 11 I see what you're saying. So, we'll have a -- a pile of 12 them at the first of the month. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 14 MS. SOVIL: But we leave that on there in 15 case we missed the minutes for some reason. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Very good. Very good. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else you need 18 edification about today? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir. I'm still -- 20 still a little dinged over the Christmas decorations. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you have a report on those 22 that you'd like to render at this time? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And J.P. salaries. 24 No, it's going to take me a couple days to get over it. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Would it help if we 10-27-00 177 1 put a mustache on the snowman out there, make him look like 2 you? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're going to build a 4 sign to put on that snowman, circle with a slash through it. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Any reports from any of the 6 Commissioners? From the elected officials or department 7 heads? Boards? Commissions? Committees? Wait a minute, 8 the Auditor? 9 MR. TOMLINSON: Just a comment. On -- I know 10 you're getting ready to -- to do a contract with -- a 11 personal service contract with individuals for -- for the 12 transition, and one thing I want you to keep in mind is -- 13 is the collection process. I don't know if -- if we want to 14 have a contractor collecting funds for Kerr County. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Had to bring that up. 16 Good point, thank you. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, there's a 18 bonding problem, right? 19 MR. TOMLINSON: We have a bonding problem. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Talking about a 21 personnel agency? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He means contracting 23 people to take -- like, that collect the fees, and we 24 contract with U.G.R.A. staff. All of a sudden, they're 25 individuals who aren't bonded, because the agency's bonded, 10-27-00 178 1 not the individuals, probably. 2 MR. TOMLINSON: Right, yeah. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Maybe the County 4 Attorney can work that out for us. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Might be able to get a 6 deal with -- let U.G.R.A. collect the fees for us, 'cause 7 they're bonded. Thank you. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: This doesn't get 9 easier, does it? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other reports to come 11 before the Court? Any further business to come before the 12 Court? If not, I'll declare the meeting adjourned. We now 13 have a workshop. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can we take five 15 minutes? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, why don't we take five 17 minutes? 18 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 2:35 p.m.) 19 - - - - - - - - - - 20 21 22 23 24 25 10-27-00 179 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 5 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 6 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 7 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 4th day of November, 8 2003. 9 10 11 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 12 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 13 Certified Shorthand Reporter 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 10-27-00