1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Regular Session 10 Tuesday, November 11, 2003 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 DAVE NICHOLSON, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X November 11, 2003 2 PAGE --- Visitors' Input 3 3 --- Commissioners Comments 4 4 1.1 Approve renewal of contract with Attorney General for participation of Texas Child Support Disburse- 5 ment Unit (TxCSDU) as amended 7, 9 1.2 Set public hearing for Revision of Plat for Lots 6 122 & 123 of The Horizon, Section One 8 1.3 Road name changes, regulatory signs, and roads to 7 be added or removed for County maintenance, set public hearing date for same 14 8 1.4 Revision of court orders to reflect road name changes to be voided 19 9 1.5 Privately-maintained road name changes 23 1.6 Budget for Floodplain Administration 28 10 1.7 Administration of county Floodplain Program and establish appropriate procedures 28 11 1.8 Changes to and approval of Environmental Health Department budget 46 12 1.9 Discuss transition of OSSF & Floodplain from UGRA to Environmental Health Department/County Engineer 71 13 1.10 Merit pay policies and procedures 73 1.11 Permission to use courthouse & courthouse grounds 14 on Nov. 22, 2003, for Christmas Lighting Ceremony 83 1.12 Approve contracts with Mountain Home VFD and 15 Center Point VFD, authorize Judge to sign same 86 1.13 Approve form contracts with County-sponsored 16 agencies, authorize Judge to sign same 87 1.14 Select member of Commissioners Court to serve on 17 Alamo Resource and Development Council 91 18 4.1 Pay Bills 94 4.2 Budget Amendments 99 19 4.3 Late Bills 99 4.4 Read and Approve Minutes 107 20 4.5 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 109 21 --- Adjourned 113 22 23 24 25 3 1 On Tuesday, November 11, 2003, at 9:00 a.m., a regular 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in the 3 Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville, 4 Texas, and the following proceedings were had in open court: 5 P R O C E E D I N G S 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I'll call to order the 7 meeting of the regular Commissioners Court posted for this 8 date, Tuesday, November 11th. It's now a bit after 9 a.m. 9 I believe this morning the honors belong to Commissioner 10 Letz. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Please join me in prayer, 12 please. 13 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. At this time, if 15 there's anyone who wishes to address the Court on any matter 16 that is not on the agenda, please feel free to do so. If 17 you wish to speak on a matter that is listed on the agenda, 18 we would ask that you fill out -- I believe it's called a 19 Participation Form; it's at the back of the room. And fill 20 that out and -- and send it up here so that when we get to 21 that item, we'll be able to remember to call on you. We'd 22 ask that you do that. But if there's anyone who wishes to 23 speak on a matter that is not on the agenda, please feel 24 free to come forward at this time. Sheriff? 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Just to let the Court be 11-11-03 4 1 aware, the Judge did come out to the office and was part of 2 our yearly jail inspection the Jail Standards did on 3 November the 4th, and the jail did pass their inspection 4 with no noted deficiencies at all after about seven hours. 5 And I thank the Judge for coming out and being with them and 6 getting us through that part of the year again. That's all 7 I wanted the Court to be aware of. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Sheriff. Is there 9 anyone else that wishes to address the Court on a matter 10 that is not listed on the agenda? If not, we'll move on to 11 the next segment, Commissioners' Comments. Commissioner 3? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, I don't believe I 13 have anything to add, other than that, you know, we're, 14 again, thankful for all of our veterans; sort of a special 15 time for us to give a little bit of remembrance towards 16 them, and thank you for our troops that are abroad. Other 17 than that, that's all. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner 4? 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'll pass. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: One? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ditto, Commissioner 22 Letz. That's it. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Two? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Nothing. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. As the Sheriff 11-11-03 5 1 indicated, I was present out there when a good portion of 2 the jail inspection was conducted last week. The inspector 3 for the Texas Commission on Jail Standards could not have 4 been more complimentary about the Kerr County Detention 5 Facility. Over and over again, he mentioned what a good 6 experience it was for him to come to a facility that was 7 operated as professionally and so totally in compliance with 8 all the applicable regulations, and his job would be much 9 easier if, in fact, others even remotely approached that. 10 So, I want to commend the Sheriff and his staff for the fine 11 work that they do out there. And -- and, apparently, this 12 inspection has been going this way for a number of years; 13 this is not the first time. And this is one of those things 14 that they could probably drop in nearly any day of the week 15 or month and find the same conditions. It's not one of 16 those deals where you spend two or three weeks or a month or 17 two getting ready for an inspection. Those people can drop 18 in on you at any time, and occasionally they do. And, based 19 upon the comments that I heard from the inspection people, 20 they find the same thing in our facility, and I appreciate 21 the Sheriff and his staff's efforts. 22 A couple other comments, if I might. Our -- 23 our Family and Consumer Affairs Specialist, I believe is the 24 right terminology, with our Extension Department, Ms. Amy 25 Chapman, has recently completed a phase of her wellness 11-11-03 6 1 program dealing with Type 2 diabetes. That was her focus of 2 the program, and apparently it's -- it's gotten very rave 3 reviews, both from the participants, and now from her 4 superiors, and I want to commend her for her activities in 5 that wellness program. That program has the potential of 6 being a very, very valuable tool to both courthouse 7 employees and citizens of Kerr County in helping them 8 discover a health problem they may not know that they have. 9 And, number two, helping in large measure to decrease health 10 insurance costs, both from the standpoint of experience 11 ratings and -- and premiums that are paid for health 12 insurance coverage, and secondly, for costs that Kerr County 13 has to pay under its Indigent Health Care program. So, it 14 has the potential to be a -- a valuable resource, and I want 15 to commend Ms. Chapman for all her efforts. 16 Lastly, I know the members of the Court are 17 aware, but I wanted to recognize some people who are going 18 above and beyond, and those are jail inmates that are 19 helping finish out the area downstairs for our Environmental 20 Health Department. They're doing a bang-up job down there, 21 and it really, really looks nice, and they're working hard 22 and they're taking a lot of pride in their work. And I want 23 to commend Bobby Johnson and -- and his guys for the work 24 that they're doing down there, 'cause it really does look 25 nice, and so I wish to thank them for that. 11-11-03 7 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, on that note also, 2 it's a tremendous savings to the taxpayers. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. 4 It's -- some of these -- some of these folks are real 5 professional craftsmen, and -- and they're not working 6 unwillingly. They're there -- they're working hard at what 7 they're doing; they're taking pride in their work, and 8 they're doing a very good job. And the cost to the 9 taxpayers for their labor, of course, is -- is practically 10 nil. So, I -- I think it's a -- I think it's a wonderful 11 program they got going there. And that's all I have. Let's 12 move on to the agenda. The first item is approval of 13 renewal of Original Contract Agreement Number 04-0266 14 between Kerr County and the Office of the Attorney General 15 for continued participation in support of Texas Child 16 Support Disbursement Unit, and amended to include provisions 17 for Kerr County providing customer service and payment 18 thereof by the Office of the Attorney General for the 19 Federal Office of Child Support Enforcement under Title 20 IV-D. Everybody understand that? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, yeah. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Ms. Uecker had asked 23 that this item be placed on the agenda. I don't see her 24 here. Anyone have any heads-up about what the status of 25 this item is? 11-11-03 8 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't, but I have a 2 question about it. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: All right, sir. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I did real well 5 through most of it, and understand that we do this annually, 6 but when it got to the part about being amended to include 7 provisions, I'm not clear about that, what that means, 8 and -- and we don't have any -- I mean, the thing's not in 9 here for us to look at to see what's amended and what's not 10 amended, so I would -- what's amended? What's the 11 amendment? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Good question. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Let's pass it until 14 Ms. Uecker -- 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why don't we defer 16 it? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: If she shows up later today, 18 we may come back to it. If no one has anything to offer, 19 we'll move on to Item 2, set a public hearing for the 20 Revision of Plat for Lots 122 and 123 of The Horizon, 21 Section One. Mr. Johnston. 22 MR. JOHNSTON: This is combining two lots, 23 122 and 123, into a large lot. Doesn't require notification 24 by mail; just requires a newspaper notification and a public 25 hearing. And I guess the date would be the date before 11-11-03 9 1 Christmas, so that's the 22nd? Second meeting in December 2 would be the full 30 days. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move we set a public 4 hearing for Revision of Plat for Lots 122 and 123 of The 5 Horizon, Section One, on December 22nd at 10 a.m. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second -- third. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that 9 public hearing be set for December 22nd of this year at 10 10 a.m. for Revision of Plat for Lots 122 and 123 of The 11 Horizon, Section One, Kerr County. Any further discussion 12 or questions? All in favor of the motion, signify by 13 raising your right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. We will go 18 back to Item 1 now. I'm not going to reread the item. 19 MS. UECKER: Okay, that's fine. Good 20 morning. Basically, what this is, this is just the renewal 21 of the contract that's been in place since 1997 on the state 22 disbursement unit. And the -- I had it amended this time to 23 allow the contract to include customer service payments. 24 Since we already provide the customer service, this way 25 we'll get paid for it. Every time we have an inquiry about 11-11-03 10 1 a child support case or a Title IV-D case, we'll get -- the 2 County will receive -- let's see, it's 66 percent of 3 whatever 75 cents is, every time there's an inquiry. Which 4 doesn't sound like a whole lot, and it's probably not, but, 5 you know, it does add up. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 50 cents. 7 MS. UECKER: Right. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What is an inquiry? 9 MS. UECKER: If someone calls up and says, 10 you know, "Where's my child support check?" Any -- any 11 question regarding anything about that Title IV-D case. You 12 know, "How do I do this?" You know, "What number do I need 13 to call to get ahold of the Attorney General's office?" 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What do you tell them? 15 "Get your 50 cents up here and I'll answer it"? Or -- 16 MS. UECKER: No. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- how does that work? 18 MS. UECKER: The feds -- the feds will pay 19 that. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, I see. 21 MS. UECKER: On our Stratus, which is the 22 State Disbursement Unit program, the computer program that's 23 hooked directly to that S.D.U. in San Antonio, when we pull 24 up anything on that screen, we have access to that screen, 25 and if we do any -- any kind of an inquiry on that case, 11-11-03 11 1 there is a little flag that comes up. When you pull up the 2 case, after this is signed, it says, you know, "Did you 3 perform customer service?" And we'll check it, and when it 4 goes back there, it kind of logs -- and every county gets a 5 statement once a month for us to verify customer service on 6 all of these cases, and then the State sends us a check. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What is that check -- 8 what fund does that check go to? 9 MS. UECKER: General Fund. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pardon? 11 MS. UECKER: General Fund. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there a conflict between 13 your acting as a child support collections disbursement 14 agent and the relatively new provision -- I think it came 15 into effect September 1 -- that provides that in all court 16 judgments, it should be directed to the A.G. child support 17 disbursement? 18 MS. UECKER: No. No, and all new case -- all 19 new payments will go to the S.D.U. See, the local registrar 20 is no longer a local registrar. All -- after 1997, all new 21 cases filed become Title IV-D cases. And it's -- you know, 22 we opposed it for many, many years, but this came down from 23 President Clinton's Federal Reform Act, and it's not going 24 -- see, we're no longer the registry. So, every order -- 25 like, in that bill, it has to say that every payment goes to 11-11-03 12 1 the S.D.U. The S.D.U. disburses that money, all cases 2 except pre-1994 cases. So, as long as we have 1994 cases 3 and before, we'll still actually receive and disburse money. 4 Now, we are receiving some child support cases in post-1994, 5 only because the S.D.U. is rerouting those payments on a one 6 -- a case-by-case basis. Except those after September 1 of 7 2003. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Hope you understand all 9 that. 10 MS. UECKER: So, eventually we'll be out of 11 the child support business, but that's going to be, you 12 know, 16 years down the road. See, what -- what happens, 13 every time a case is filed, the S.D.U. wants to know that 14 information, so as soon as a case is filed, we have to put 15 it into Stratus, which I have one computer that's furnished 16 by the Attorney General's office that -- of course, all the 17 computers, you can log onto Stratus, but we had to modify 18 them to be able to do that. But they want to know all of 19 the case information. They want to know dates, they want to 20 know names, birth -- dates of birth, how many children, 21 Social Security number, they want to know everything about 22 every case. And this goes into one huge child support deal 23 in the sky somewhere. But we get -- we get reimbursed for 24 that information also. In other words, they're paying us -- 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that where the 50 11-11-03 13 1 cents comes from? 2 MS. UECKER: -- for the information. No, we 3 get more on those. Well, it comes from the federal 4 government, actually. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's our money coming 6 back to us. 7 MS. UECKER: Right, it's our money. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Need a motion? I have 9 a motion, Judge. 10 MS. UECKER: That's exactly right. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for approval of 12 the renewal of Original Contract Agreement Number 04-0266 13 between Kerr County and the Office of the Attorney General, 14 and that includes the amendment. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 17 approval of the agenda item. Any further question or 18 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 19 your right hand. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. 24 MS. UECKER: If you'll return those contracts 25 to me after you get them signed, Judge, I'll make sure that 11-11-03 14 1 they get to the proper party. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Ms. Uecker. Next 3 item is consider road name changes in accordance with 911 4 guidelines, regulatory signs, and roads to be added or 5 removed for county maintenance, and set public hearing date 6 for the same. 7 MS. HARDIN: You have a list before you of 8 the road name changes. I hope these will be the last ones 9 for the year. We would like to set the public hearing date 10 for the 22nd of December so we can get it in before the end 11 of the year deadline. We have Taylor Road in Precinct 3 to 12 Airpark. We have a portion of Wilson Creek Road to be added 13 to Schladoer Road. One portion of Wilson Creek from -- from 14 Schladoer Road to be called Roane Road; therefore, that will 15 eliminate the Wilson Creek road name altogether. We have 16 Joelle Ranch Road to be Pigeon Roost, Country Lane to go 17 back to Sleepy Hollow and Sleepy Mountain Hollow. We have 18 Mountain Home Loop to go to Creekridge Trail. We have a 19 portion of Avenue C in Center Point to go to 4th Street. 20 Then we have three regulatory signs. We have 30 21 mile-an-hour on Beaver, a 45 miles-per-hour on Tatsch, soon 22 to be Lower Reservation Road, and a "No Dumping" sign on 23 Keagan South. We have two roads that the landowners have 24 suggested that we discontinue maintenance on. One is 25 Stubblefield Road in Center Point, and the other one, which 11-11-03 15 1 we do not have all the documentation for yet, is Joelle 2 Ranch Road. I hope to have that before the public hearing. 3 And then we need to add to Kerr County maintenance just the 4 name alone of Treiber Lane in Precinct 4. 411 foot of that 5 road was previously another road name, so we need to add the 6 Treiber Road name to the county -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But we've always 8 maintained that 411 feet? 9 MS. HARDIN: Correct. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Truby, there's another 11 one that -- I don't know if you're aware of it or not; 12 the -- for abandonment, Louise Oehler is working, and we're 13 waiting on the County Attorney to look at some law in there. 14 I don't know if we can do it this time or the next time. 15 There's no real rush. 16 MS. HARDIN: Do you think -- we could add it 17 to the advertisement and the public hearing on the 22nd. Do 18 you think they'll have the information by then? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All we need to do is 20 verify that there's access in some of the prior deeds to the 21 land by the schoolhouse -- community center. Yeah, I think 22 we can add it. I don't think it's a -- if it can't be, it 23 can always be pulled. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's the name of 25 it? 11-11-03 16 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Louise Oehler. We 2 already received -- I've received notice; I can give you a 3 copy of it, of -- all the property owners have signed off 4 already. 5 MS. HARDIN: And the advertisement I have for 6 10 o'clock, but we can change that date if we need to -- I 7 mean time if we need to. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Truby, this Joelle 9 Ranch Road, is this off 1340 there near Japonica Cemetery? 10 MS. HARDIN: Yes, the first road out of Hunt. 11 They -- someone removed the street sign, but they want the 12 name changed. They have posted it as a private driveway, 13 which means we don't go down it. So we asked them, "Do you 14 want it to be maintained, or do you want it to be private?" 15 And they're in discussions on which way they want it to go. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move the name changes 17 as presented, and authorize a public hearing -- or schedule 18 a public hearing for December 22nd at 10 a.m. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You can't. I just set 20 one at 10:00. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 10:30 a.m. 22 MS. HARDIN: 10:30? Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Does that motion include 24 the regulatory signs, abandonment -- 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, it does, all 11-11-03 17 1 abandonment and removals, and the additions to maintenance. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the addition of one 3 more road for abandonment, Louise Oehler. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, ma'am -- yes, 5 sir. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 8 approval of the agenda item, with the addition of Louise 9 Oehler Road to be considered as a part of it, and set a 10 public hearing on the matter for 10:30 a.m. on December 22nd 11 of this year. Any further question or discussion? 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. I've got a 13 question for anybody on the court that can answer it, or 14 Truby. What sort of factors -- considerations go into 15 making a decision to abandon a County-maintained road? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Basically, the way I've 17 done it, I think, with the one that I've just added, that 18 all of the property owners request it be done. I mean, I 19 don't think -- generally, they just need to understand that 20 if they do it, it's not coming back the other way. It's not 21 coming back ever, unless they bring it up to the County 22 standards. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Your particular one, 24 Joelle Road, I understand there's one property owner all the 25 way around it. 11-11-03 18 1 MS. HARDIN: No, he sold off portions of 2 that. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Might be two. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, I didn't -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But just a matter -- they 7 just have to understand that. I mean, they can limit 8 access, but then they also take over maintenance of it. And 9 they also have to -- like, on some of them, like on mine, 10 some of them are public -- I mean, some of them, they -- you 11 know, whether or not they're County-maintained or not really 12 doesn't make a whole lot of difference. They're still open 13 to the public. 14 MS. HARDIN: The Commissioners Court can also 15 request that it be taken from maintenance. And in the case 16 of a private -- if there's a sign that states it's a private 17 driveway, so the public is -- or if it's blocked off or 18 something, the State will not go down that road and count it 19 into our road maintenance if it has a "No Trespassing" or a 20 "Private Driveway" sign on it. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, if we vote to -- 22 MS. HARDIN: It can be a recommendation from 23 the Court or the Road and Bridge Department. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: If we vote to 25 abandon that, they could choose to put a gate up, for 11-11-03 19 1 example. 2 MS. HARDIN: Correct. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That answered my 4 question. 5 MS. HARDIN: In most cases, that's what they 6 do. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the reason why 8 they do it. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And, basically, that's 10 what they've done with this -- with this sign -- 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm ready to vote. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- in my opinion. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or 14 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 15 your right hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Next item 20 on the agenda is to consider revision of court orders to 21 reflect road name changes to be voided. 22 MS. HARDIN: You have a list before you. 23 These are road name changes that were done by court order 24 for the 911 purposes. For -- for some reason or another, 25 they have decided that they don't want the name or it was 11-11-03 20 1 done in error, and we just need to go back and correct those 2 court order numbers which you have listed before you. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Truby, Wyatt and 4 Dean? 5 MS. HARDIN: Mm-hmm? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That appears in the 7 next agenda item as well, correct? 8 MS. HARDIN: That's correct, but we have to 9 take it off the court order where we changed it previously. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, fine. Thank 11 you. 12 MS. HARDIN: I mean, or correct that court 13 order. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions on this 16 item? 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Just for the benefit 18 of people in the audience, this does include the -- the 19 change of Country Lane back to Sleepy Hollow and Sleepy 20 Mountain Lane North. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Do I hear a motion? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 25 approval of the agenda item as presented. Any further 11-11-03 21 1 question or discussion? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question. On the Wyatt 3 and Dean, is that way out Elm Pass? Is it that area? 4 Where's Dean Road -- or where's Wyatt? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Dean Road branches 6 off of what is -- what is and will become Wyatt Ranch Road. 7 Wyatt Ranch Road goes in off of Elm Pass way out there. 8 Correct, Truby? 9 MS. HARDIN: Correct. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It goes in, turns 11 around, goes all the way up to the Wyatt Ranch. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Dean comes in at the 14 junction inside. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And it was changed, 17 oh, several years ago -- three, four years ago, five years 18 ago. But this is -- what's her name? She's a Dean. I 19 forgot her married name. But it's not the way it should be, 20 because it goes off of the Wyatt Ranch Road down to only her 21 house and one other, and the other people don't want to call 22 it Dean Road. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. So, we're kind 24 of -- 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Been out there, found 11-11-03 22 1 that out. 2 MS. HARDIN: It was changed. Originally -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're going from Dean 4 back to Wyatt? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And the next one, 6 we're going to go to Wyatt Ranch. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I understand. I know 8 where -- I thought I knew where it was. I was right, but I 9 wanted to -- I know those people. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Is that ending a 11 duplication or adding another one with Wyatt Avenue? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You got Wyatt Avenue 13 in Center Point. That's why it's going to be called Wyatt 14 Ranch Road. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Already talked to 911 17 folks. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Thank you. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're welcome. 20 MS. HARDIN: Okay. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or 22 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 23 your right hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 11-11-03 23 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Next item 3 is to consider privately maintained road name changes in 4 accordance with 911 guidelines. 5 MS. HARDIN: You have a great number of those 6 before you. We were trying to do it all before the end of 7 the year. I have one to add to it, and that would be -- and 8 I've already given it to Jannett, but it was Road Number 9 4028 to Firefly Lane West. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Firefly Lane? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's right next to 12 Dragonfly, if y'all are wondering. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Firefly Lane West? 15 MS. HARDIN: Yes. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Firefly is all one 17 word? 18 MS. HARDIN: Yes, sir. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 20 MS. HARDIN: I tried to sort those by 21 Commissioner name. I hope they are. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Truby, the number 23 4016 -- 24 MS. HARDIN: Canon Canyon. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Canon Canyon. Was 11-11-03 24 1 there some change there? 2 MS. HARDIN: Yes, sir. That one is off of 3 Harper Road. It just had a number, and it went to Canon 4 Canyon. It's the same gentleman, just a different location. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. And so this 6 completes the name changes for the year, and once we approve 7 this, then 911 really moves forward, Colonel? With all the 8 programs? 9 MS. HARDIN: Does that mean my volunteer job 10 ends? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just one question. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Your volunteer job? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On the last one, where 15 Dean goes to East Wyatt, well, since we just vacated Dean, 16 Dean's no longer that name. Therefore, that road is now 17 Wyatt, so it should say Wyatt to East Wyatt Ranch, not Dean 18 to Wyatt Ranch. 19 MS. HARDIN: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just -- 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Five minutes ago, it 22 was correct. 23 MS. HARDIN: Could we just reverse those two 24 orders? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just think we need to 11-11-03 25 1 add Wyatt after Dean in parentheses or something, just so we 2 know which one we ended up with. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's correct. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If I can make one 5 comment, though, the only problem I have is when most people 6 are calling in an emergency situation, they're going to use 7 the main road name, and if we're ending duplications, and 8 now you're adding one more Wyatt to the Wyatt we already 9 have, whether it's east, west, south, or avenue or ranch, I 10 think we're going to start creating a confusion for us out 11 in the county, 'cause the -- the 911 call doesn't say that, 12 especially if somebody's in a hurry. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Wyatt Street is in 14 Center Point. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Is it Wyatt Street? 16 Wyatt Avenue? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Whichever. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But that's the whole 19 problem I have. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is Wyatt Ranch 21 Road. And to make it even easier for emergency responses, 22 the owners of the ranch, the Wyatt family, they're going to 23 put up signs inside that direct people to the two residences 24 that branch off of Wyatt Ranch Road, which is Mrs. Dean's 25 place and one other place. 11-11-03 26 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm just concerned that 2 we're giving the same names again, even though we're adding 3 suffixes on them or prefixes; it's still the same road 4 names, which is what caused us confusion all the time. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Rusty's absolutely 6 100 percent correct, but you have to take that up with the 7 911 people. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 'Cause it was cleared 9 out. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And it's a fine line 11 between accommodating -- coming up with names that meet the 12 guidelines and accommodating the people. And I think, you 13 know, for the near term, they would -- there wouldn't be 14 much of a problem, 'cause they'd call it Wyatt Ranch, 15 because, I mean, that's where it is. Long-term, if a 16 subdivision is developed out there, I think there is a 17 potential problem. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Might be. But I'll 19 move the name changes as presented, with the correction. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 22 approval of the name changes as presented in the agenda 23 item, with the parenthetical that what's listed as "Dean" is 24 really now Wyatt, I guess, as a result of the Court's vote 25 just moments ago. Any further question or discussion? 11-11-03 27 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: One -- one question. 2 I occasionally hear from the volunteer fire departments that 3 when we assign a name to a -- a road that either doesn't 4 have a name or has -- only has a number, if they don't get a 5 map, they just get this piece of paper that says Road 4022 6 is now North Campbell, they don't -- they don't know where 7 it is. So, my question is, do we give them the map, or do 8 they get that map from 911? 9 MS. HARDIN: 911 is -- 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We've got maps from 911 11 to associate back and make it work. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's -- on a few 13 occasions, that's dropped between the cracks a couple times. 14 MR. HARRIS: I think -- excuse me, sir. I 15 think if we ever get this thing straightened out, there will 16 be a new map come out, but they've got the maps now. All 17 they got to do is make the changes to them. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, yeah, I guess 19 that's right. If they know where to look. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or 21 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 22 your right hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 11-11-03 28 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Next item 2 is consider budget for Floodplain Administration. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, this really is -- 4 I think goes hand-in-hand with the next item as well. 5 They're, I think, the same topic, and I think they can be 6 handled as one. I really don't -- I mean, the 7 administration of it's related to the budget. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let me go ahead and call 9 the next item, then, consider and discuss administration of 10 the Kerr County Floodplain Program and establishing the 11 appropriate procedures. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess I'll get it 13 started, 'cause, I mean, I guess Dave and I have been kind 14 of -- this somehow followed along with O.S.S.F. Anyway, but 15 the -- at our last meeting, we asked Franklin to prepare a 16 budget and kind of think how it would work in Road and 17 Bridge Department, and he's done that. I think it's in the 18 packets. And I've talked with Franklin briefly about it. I 19 think the direction we need to go is that, you know, reduce 20 these numbers quite a bit and figure out how much it 21 actually takes. I really don't think we need any additional 22 staffing or anything at this time. I don't think we need 23 any additional computers at this time. I think we do need 24 to get up to speed on education, maps, things of that 25 nature, probably software. But I think, really, my 11-11-03 29 1 overall -- the slower we go right now -- let's figure out 2 what we need, so we don't buy stuff that we don't -- that we 3 find out we really didn't need. And I think there's also a 4 little bit of an issue as to what, if anything, is going to 5 still come from U.G.R.A. in the map area. That's just kind 6 of where it is. 7 I mean, I appreciate Franklin looking at it 8 and coming up with some numbers, but until we really have a 9 little bit of history running it and finding out exactly 10 what needs to be done, and Franklin -- there's some sort of 11 reporting and things of this nature. Until, really, I 12 understand what management of the Floodplain means and what 13 the County's obligations are, it's hard for me to go too 14 much further than this. Kind of, for the next month, two 15 months, just put enough in the budget to get by. Franklin 16 did mention there's some reporting going on and things of 17 that nature, and I frankly just don't -- I just don't know 18 enough about floodplain administration to make an informed 19 decision today on a lot of these items. But, Franklin, with 20 that said, do you have any comments you want to add? Or -- 21 MR. JOHNSTON: No. Basically, that's it. We 22 received what U.G.R.A. gave back to us, and it was about a 23 dozen boxes of files, and no furniture or anything. But we 24 put some information in there, just to get some file 25 cabinets and shelves to put all that stuff together. It's 11-11-03 30 1 all sitting in my office right now in cardboard boxes. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, on file 3 cabinets, I know kind of -- is Glenn in -- Glenn's not here 4 right now. The -- you have file cabinets, Ms. Uecker? 5 MS. UECKER: Sure do. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We need a bunch. We need 7 some for Miguel downstairs at O.S.S.F., and I actually -- I 8 had mentioned to Glenn that he might need -- I think he's 9 planning to make a run down to the surplus -- state surplus 10 stuff in San Antonio later this week, but -- 11 MS. UECKER: I told Mr. Holekamp that I had 12 file cabinets, and we could distribute some of them, but I 13 still have about two -- there's three, four, five -- how 14 many do you need? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: You might remind him. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Might remind him. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: If it's been a while since you 18 mentioned that to him, that you still have some excess 19 remaining. 20 MS. UECKER: How many do you think you're 21 going to need? 22 MR. JOHNSTON: Need to be legal width. 23 MS. UECKER: Two? 24 MR. JOHNSTON: Two. 25 MS. UECKER: Okay. Yeah, we can get those. 11-11-03 31 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And O.S.S.F. will need -- 2 I think they need four or five at O.S.S.F. 3 MR. JOHNSTON: Maybe get one, put all these 4 books in. I have some 3-ring binders also. We can put 5 those -- 6 MS. HARDIN: There's more information in 7 books and notebooks and stuff than there are files. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Anyway, if you get with 9 Glenn, whether we need bookshelves or whatever, the surplus 10 out of San Antonio is a good source for that, and certainly 11 the most economical. 12 (Discussion off the record.) 13 MS. UECKER: We'll see what we've got. 14 MR. JOHNSTON: Okay, sounds good. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To me, I guess one of the 16 questions -- I know you went to -- or didn't you go to a 17 seminar? 18 MR. JOHNSTON: Last week, there was a 19 two-and-a-half day thing over here in Kerrville, so -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I guess a little bit 21 as to, really, 1.7, as to procedures and how to set it up. 22 I mean, how do you envision it working, and what do we need 23 to do, if anything, with job descriptions? And then 24 compensation, in the short term, anyway? You know, you and 25 I visited a few minutes ago. My suggestion is that, rather 11-11-03 32 1 than add additional clerical staff, to try to, you know, 2 see -- I just don't think there's that much that's going to 3 take place right away. Add it to Barbara -- I'd say Truby, 4 but she'd hit me. Add to it Barbara, and for the short 5 term, and if it gets to the point that we need -- you know, 6 it's a lot of clerical work, I think we'll just have to hire 7 another clerical person. But, in the short term, I think we 8 need, you know, to try to fit it in with the current staff 9 out there. I think the compensation, from your standpoint, 10 you -- I really think we need to keep track of it on an 11 hourly basis for a couple of months and see what the volume 12 is, and just take whatever your current -- you know, break 13 it down to your hourly rate and just apply that same hourly 14 rate. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My questions would 16 be -- two questions. One, how many -- how many applications 17 do we have with that, regarding floodplain? There's not 18 that many. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Like, 17 last year or 20 something. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: A year. 17 a year. 22 And then my same questions that I had for O.S.S.F. the other 23 day. Is -- you know, this reporting thing, is it really 24 more difficult than filling in a blank and mashing a button? 25 I mean, like -- like a form letter? And you fill in a 11-11-03 33 1 blank-type thing and send it? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What could it be? 4 MR. JOHNSTON: We're kind of feeling our way 5 around. I know there's a new program -- there's a program 6 out there called Disaster Mitigation Act of 2002, and it 7 requires the County to do what they call a Hazard Mitigation 8 Plan; has to be approved by November of '04, and I don't 9 know what's been done. I haven't seen anything in their 10 files on what they've done on that. I don't know who does 11 it. I guess we do it. I guess we write it, but it's a 12 rather extensive program, I think, involving the public, 13 involving different agencies. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That very well -- 15 MR. JOHNSTON: Has to be approved by FEMA 16 before, you know, next year. That could take a lot of time. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would suspect that a 18 lot of that has been done by Chief Holloway. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's exactly what I 20 was going to say. That sounds like an Emergency 21 Management -- 22 MR. JOHNSTON: For the county? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, 'cause they did 24 the -- 25 MR. JOHNSTON: Well, may have. 11-11-03 34 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Emergency management. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: For the entire county. 3 MR. JOHNSTON: Hopefully. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, anyway, I think 5 there's -- you know, in the next couple months, I mean, 6 'cause I don't think there's a huge rush of these permit 7 applications come in. Just kind of keep track and feel your 8 way through. Find out about that report, talk to Chief 9 Holloway and see how it all works, and come up with a kind 10 of a flowchart procedure, whatever, of how it ideally should 11 work. And, in the meantime, I think we put in a -- you 12 know, we probably -- office supplies, you know, the maps. 13 If we don't -- are not getting those topo maps back, we need 14 to get maps or get -- you can get those maps online, but 15 then you need a printer to print the maps, which may be a -- 16 a better solution, to get a large printer for Road and 17 Bridge. I don't know what's, you know -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Does he have a 19 computer? Does your computer -- is it adequate to handle 20 these maps and all that kind of stuff? 21 MR. JOHNSTON: I think it is, yeah. I think 22 it is. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 'Cause there's a -- from 24 Truby, there's a topo site you go to, and you can click on 25 it and come up with any topo map. 11-11-03 35 1 MR. JOHNSTON: That might make a lot of 2 sense, because one thing I did find out in the meeting is 3 that all new FEMA maps are not coming out with these little 4 roadmap things that fold up any more; they're all digital 5 maps, which you'll have to download and print off yourself. 6 So, that big printer might be the way to go. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or I don't know that we 8 need a -- one of these huge -- I don't know much about 9 printers. Get with Shaun; that's probably the best thing. 10 Get with Shaun and find out what's available and what do we 11 need to meet the needs? 'Cause all that -- a lot of that 12 stuff is free online. I don't know if FEMA maps are going 13 to be, but I know all the topo maps are free. And, you 14 know, if it gets to the point that we are getting so many 15 applications and we need to buy maps, we can buy maps, but I 16 just don't think it's going to be that big of a volume right 17 now. I think the -- really, what we need as much as 18 anything in the next couple of months is procedures as to 19 how we handle disasters, 'cause we know we're going to have 20 them. You know, we get them on a pretty regular basis, 21 unfortunately, in this county. But we need to have a plan 22 in place as to who does what, and that needs to be 23 coordinated with Chief Holloway, and kind of some research 24 from -- 25 MR. JOHNSTON: Maybe we ought to have a 11-11-03 36 1 meeting with all these people and do disaster work, and 2 call, get together one time and talk about it, instead of 3 just meeting here and there. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. And I think -- 5 and find out also if you can maybe visit with some other 6 counties that administer. One that certainly comes to mind 7 is -- Guadalupe County deals with disasters probably on a 8 more frequent basis than we do because of the Guadalupe 9 River flowing through the county. So, I think there's 10 just -- research needs to be done, and I think we do need to 11 probably proceed with something in the budget, because -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We got training 13 coming up. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have training, we have 15 office supplies. We do have some things that we have to do, 16 but I don't think we need to spend much for the first couple 17 months until we have an idea, really, as to what we're up 18 against. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Maybe I don't understand, 20 maybe, some of the functions that go on out there at Road 21 and Bridge, and so I need to bring myself up to speed. Your 22 current functions, Mr. Johnston, are subdivision plats -- 23 reviewing subdivision plats? 24 MR. JOHNSTON: Mm-hmm. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: And -- 11-11-03 37 1 MR. JOHNSTON: Administration of Road and 2 Bridge. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Administration of Road and 4 Bridge? What all does that entail? 5 MR. JOHNSTON: Whatever comes up. No, it 6 entails -- I think the job description is spelled out in the 7 statute. There's a lot of items that we do out there that 8 has to do with Road and Bridge besides the platting. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. And then you do 10 inspections as required under the Subdivision Rules? 11 MR. JOHNSTON: Mm-hmm. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. And those are the three 13 main areas that -- 14 MR. JOHNSTON: Mm-hmm. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: -- where you function? And -- 16 MR. JOHNSTON: It's a limited number of 17 hours; it's not a full 40 hours. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: How many hours are those? 19 MR. JOHNSTON: Averages about 15 hours a 20 week. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: 15 hours a week? Okay. Are 22 those established hours? I mean, at set times or days? 23 Monday, Wednesday, and Thursday? Tuesday through Thursday? 24 Or -- 25 MR. JOHNSTON: I'm usually there -- I'm 11-11-03 38 1 usually there every morning, and then whatever else comes 2 up, you know, whatever else we need to do. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So, am I to understand 4 that you don't have specific office hours? 5 MR. JOHNSTON: No. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Well, if -- if we're 7 going to get a handle on this floodplain thing, I think we 8 need to keep track of the hours that -- that are actually 9 spent on it. Do you presently maintain a log or other 10 record of the hours that you spend now on reviewing 11 subdivision plats, Road and Bridge administration, 12 inspections? 13 MR. JOHNSTON: No, I don't keep a time sheet. 14 The courts in the past have not wanted me to. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, it would seem, if we're 16 going to separate those two out, we need to do that. It 17 would seem like the thing to do. How are we going to tell 18 the difference? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree. I think we need 20 a -- basically, floodplain, you know, needs to be kept on an 21 hourly basis. And, I mean, I just went through the budget 22 that Franklin submitted, and what I would recommend is put 23 $5,000 under salary line item, $1,000 in office supplies, 24 $200, books and publications, $500 for fuel, and $2,000 for 25 training, and that's it until we -- that should be enough to 11-11-03 39 1 get the training going. And the salary, you know, that 2 should be sufficient for, I think, probably the better part 3 of the year on an hourly basis. And if -- you know, if we 4 need more, we can always go back. I mean, let it go for a 5 couple months and come back sometime in January, say, you 6 know, after you've had some time to do a little bit of 7 additional training and get ideas as to the way other 8 counties are handling it. I think going to other counties 9 is probably, really, the best idea, because they've 10 obviously -- you know, every county has to do this, 11 especially if you have a river going through. Kendall 12 County clearly does the same function we do. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, there's also in 14 transition, if I'm not mistaken, in the subdivision plats, a 15 movement towards requiring the developers and their experts 16 to be responsible and accountable for the various 17 certifications and inspections. That's at least my 18 understanding of where the direction is that we're going. I 19 see that as maybe reducing the amount of time that 20 Mr. Johnston has to spend on -- on his subdivision plats and 21 inspections, and maybe even Road and Bridge administration. 22 I don't know, because we've got no records to indicate how 23 much time is being spent there. I think it would be helpful 24 if we were to know the various functions he performs and how 25 much time he spends on any -- each of those functions so 11-11-03 40 1 that we can see whether his duties are increasing, 2 decreasing, what he's spending on floodplain administration, 3 what he's spending on other functions. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't disagree with 5 that. I think that the -- I mean, I think it would be 6 helpful to have a breakdown of workload so we can look at 7 that. But I see the -- in talking with Franklin, the 8 changes I see in the Subdivision Rules aren't necessarily a 9 reduction of workload. I think one of the problems we have 10 is a lack of monitoring, and I think he and I -- Franklin 11 and I were talking about it. It may not be something he 12 needs to do; may be something we need a clerical person to 13 do, but we need to get a better tracking system as to, you 14 know, they notify us that we're -- that they're doing -- you 15 know, building roads these dates or pouring, you know, 16 sealcoat, whatever they're doing, putting base down. 17 Boy, this must be a good discussion; I'm 18 getting two pictures of me at once. But the -- I just think 19 that we need to relook at that whole subdivision function. 20 I think there's some things we need to improve, and maybe 21 realign them to workload. I don't see that it's a reduced 22 workload with the changes, just because we're having the 23 reporting done. I think we still need to keep copies of it 24 and kind of monitor the whole inspection side of it, 25 probably better than we have in the past, so that we have, 11-11-03 41 1 you know, some documentation to that effect. So I think 2 that, you know, there is some, I guess, madness to my going 3 with two months, because we have previously talked about in 4 January, after all the Subdivision Rules are done, to look 5 at that whole County Engineer function and how it needs to 6 fit in, and we can do this for two months -- budget for two 7 months. That would be the same time frame. We can look at 8 that overall job function in two months. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I think it would be helpful to 10 know exactly what -- what's being performed in all areas 11 during that period of time, to take a look at it so we get a 12 better overall angle. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't disagree at all. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Anybody else got anything? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Y'all actually agree 16 after all that? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Yeah. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We've got to get the 19 cost down some way. If I apply that -- the principle of 20 "user pays" to this -- I know you can't always charge users 21 enough to cover the cost, but if we applied that to this, an 22 application for a floodplain determination, the fee would be 23 more than $2,000. That's -- I don't think we can be 24 spending that kind of money to make floodplain 25 determinations. 11-11-03 42 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Under these numbers, 2 it's about a 67 percent return, by my calculations. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Only a small part of it. 4 The floodplain administration benefits every resident in the 5 county, and if we don't have -- if we don't do it properly, 6 the down side -- the risk -- the cost to the County is far 7 more than the $7,000 that we're looking at here to budget. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Doesn't it also tie 9 into our ability to get flood insurance? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Exactly. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If we don't have the 12 program, nobody in the county can get flood insurance. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's the fallacy 14 principle, that there's always downstream benefits to almost 15 everybody. 16 MR. JOHNSTON: Not only flood insurance, but 17 you don't get the -- after a flood, you don't get the 18 reimbursement from FEMA and all that. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Not eligible for 21 emergency -- 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We would not happen 23 to have money for maps and books and things of that nature? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I put in -- maps, I think 25 until we can find out if we can use the online, I'd rather 11-11-03 43 1 look at using the online maps initially. 2 MR. JOHNSTON: If we do those, we probably 3 need a way to print them off. Need a hard copy. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I don't know that -- 5 we can print out a small one, which, I mean, you just can't 6 get a big map. I don't know how big you need, but I think 7 right now, if we can just get by with this, and then visit 8 with Shaun and see what you need on the capital outlay side, 9 and if there's something that would be beneficial to Road 10 and Bridge as a whole, and to Floodplain, you know, we 11 can -- a printer may be needed out there. I have a hard 12 time spending a whole lot of money on Floodplain by itself 13 if it's not a benefit to Road and Bridge as well. But I 14 would think a larger printer may be beneficial. I don't 15 know. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Wasn't this function actually 17 performed by Road and Bridge in a prior life? 18 MR. JOHNSTON: It was performed by 19 . 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They were officed out 21 there. Maybe before that it was done, but, I mean -- 22 JUDGE TINLEY: I was thinking at some time 23 back yonder, it was actually under Road and Bridge, and was 24 handled by whoever was the Road Engineer or administrator at 25 the time. A number of years ago, it's my understanding. 11-11-03 44 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think one of the things 2 that worries me the most is that we -- we do it right from a 3 federal reporting standpoint, and that we administer it 4 properly, because it is a -- the risk is very, very high to 5 the County if we don't do it right. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I understand that. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that we need to 8 make sure that we -- you know, we have the certifications 9 required and we do the proper procedures. I don't disagree 10 at all; we ought to try to -- need to look at the floodplain 11 determination fees and get an idea, once we find out how 12 much time it actually takes to do one, what that fee should 13 be. I think that they should pay for that portion of the 14 administration. But -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: So, I guess where we're going 16 is, we're going to try to get an actual determination of the 17 actual allocation of time of functions that Mr. Johnston 18 performs, and across-the-board, so that we can see how they 19 all dovetail together? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And Commissioner 22 Letz has proposed a temporary budget -- quote, "temporary" 23 budget. Interim budget. 24 MR. JOHNSTON: The first couple months 25 probably won't be typical. They'll probably be more 11-11-03 45 1 training than actually doing anything, just to get up to 2 speed. But I'm glad to keep track of all of that. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just -- I mean, that's 4 arbitrary numbers that I wrote down. I just looked at 5 what -- I put $2,000 for training, and I looked at where, to 6 me, we had to start with some money. My eyes are bad; I 7 can't read that far away. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Give it to us. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's the number? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Numbers I had were $5,000 11 in Floodplain Administrator salary, $1,000 in office 12 supplies, $200 in books and publications, $500 in auto 13 expense, and $2,000 in training. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: And that's a motion for 15 interim budget? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: $9,700? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct. And I really 19 think that the -- probably the salary portion is a little 20 bit high. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I got 87. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I get 87. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 87. You're right, 24 $8,700. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 87. 11-11-03 46 1 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion. Do I have a 2 second? 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I second. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to 5 approve interim budget for Floodplain Administration; $5,000 6 for Floodplain Administrator, $1,000 for office supplies, 7 $200, books and publications, $500 for auto expense/fuel, 8 and $2,000 for training. Any further question or discussion 9 on this? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 10 your right hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Next item 15 that we have is consider and discuss changes and approval to 16 the Environmental Health Department budget. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Somewhere, I have a 18 proposed budget. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Did all of you get a 20 copy of this proposed budget? Yeah. This was put together 21 by the Environmental Health Department manager and Tommy. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is it loose? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, we just got it 24 this morning. It was in your box. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You sure it was in my 11-11-03 47 1 box? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. It was in my 3 box. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes, it was. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, go. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's one modification 7 that Mindy brought to me. Line Item 640-420, telephone, 8 shows $1,700. That should be $1,200. And there should be a 9 new line item for lab testing -- laboratory testing of $500. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I'm not sure what 12 that account number would be. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: The bottom line is the same. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Bottom line is the same. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, down -- the 16 salaries and payroll roll-up costs are fixed, so the -- 17 starting down at Item 309, postage, is -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Before you get all 19 the way down there, Commissioner, explain to me, please, why 20 we have -- oh, I see, yeah -- why we have an $8,640 21 inspector. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's our part-time 23 Solid Waste. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's Solid Waste, 25 okay. Thank you. 11-11-03 48 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And also, I believe the 2 manager's salary should be $31,000, not 33. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's right. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is 31? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: The -- 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Almost got a raise. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Conferences, does that need to 9 be increased by the $2,000 difference for the training? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I believe so. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Should be $4,950. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. And that is for 15 training specifically related to management. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Management, yes. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Management. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I thought $2,950 19 included that training. 20 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, it sure does. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Management training. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Thank you, Miguel. 24 MR. ARREOLA: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Stay up here, if you 11-11-03 49 1 will, please, Miguel. Trying to get a handle on these 2 costs, I looked at the Rabies and Animal Control budget, 3 simply because they're similar in some ways; about the same 4 size staffing, and they have vehicles, and they're out and 5 about doing things. And one -- one of the things that's 6 striking is that postage and office supplies are -- are 7 quite high in this budget compared to that -- to Rabies and 8 Animal Control. Miguel and I talked about that, and they 9 simply handle a lot of paper and do a lot of mailouts. And 10 they've got some -- some experience that suggests these 11 numbers are probably in line. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Probably have a good 13 deal of certified mail that goes out. 14 MR. ARREOLA: That's also right, yes, sir. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Probably has to do with a lot 16 of the maintenance contracts, I would imagine, a lot of that 17 mailout. 18 MR. ARREOLA: Yeah, we do a lot of mailing in 19 that area also. It's expensive. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The other large 21 number in there is public education, and if you look down 22 toward the bottom, you'll see that the U.G.R.A. is going to 23 co-sponsor that with us, so net cost to the County is $3,500 24 on it. Commissioner Letz, is that a -- is that a one -- is 25 that going to be an ongoing cost? Do we envision spending 11-11-03 50 1 that kind of money each year in the future? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it would be less 3 in the future, and I think U.G.R.A.'s discussion with them 4 is only for this current year. I think they probably would 5 be willing to continue, you know, something jointly if it 6 works well this year. If it doesn't, obviously, we want to 7 each go our own way. But it was a way to do everything, 8 from kind of explaining the -- you know, what rules we're 9 going to be operating under to who -- you know, how the 10 County's -- just overall education on what the rules 11 actually say. For example, I think that we need to educate 12 the public that a change in -- a change in use of a property 13 requires licensing of that system under state rules. And I 14 think that a lot of people don't understand that. I think 15 we need to educate the public on the 10-acre exemption, as 16 to who actually that applies to. It does not apply to many 17 -- many situations. So, I think there's things of that 18 nature. That's where I envisioned that money going, into 19 areas, you know, as kind of a proactive, positive way to 20 educate the public. And -- 'cause I think that you really 21 need to do that before you can really start the strong 22 enforcement, and I think that will follow, or needs to 23 follow right after the public education or during the public 24 education phase. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: At what point in this 11-11-03 51 1 transitory process will we begin to take a look at this 2 educational component? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: As soon as Miguel has it 4 put together. 5 MR. ARREOLA: Probably be by end of the year. 6 So, once we get everything set up here and ready to go, then 7 it'll be the next thing to do. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: If you get down to 9 the bottom line, it says additional funds needed for budget 10 amendment right at $27,000. Subtract the $2,000 -- 11 actually, a little more than that, because the salary was 12 overstated, and then the roll-up. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Roll-up's based on 33? 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. Then you're 15 down at something under $25,000. Then you see that there's 16 two capital items that are not recurring. One's $22,000; 17 the other one's $10,000. So, in fact, we do need an extra 18 $25,000 or so budget funds, and that's -- from here on out, 19 the program should be self-supporting. And, in fact, the 20 $77,000 fees that we anticipate collecting is probably just 21 a little bit understated; it may be more like $80,000. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What is the $64,000? 23 EMS contract? 24 MR. ARREOLA: That is to -- from what I 25 understand, what U.G.R.A. was going to get paid to do -- to 11-11-03 52 1 run the program. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: That was that -- 3 MR. ARREOLA: They misstated EMS. It's not 4 EMS; it should be U.G.R.A. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: That was the allocation in our 6 current '03/'04 budget for the contract amount to go to 7 U.G.R.A. for administration of O.S.S.F. program. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think that -- I 9 mean, I don't think it's self-supporting, but it's less than 10 it was going to cost us. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thanks for -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Less than our current 13 contract would have been. The question I have on the 14 Capital Outlay, what does that include? 15 MR. ARREOLA: I think that's the vehicles and 16 the construction of the offices. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, it's the vehicles 18 and the computers. I think it looks reasonable. It's as 19 good as we can, you know, get from our preliminary budget, 20 and knowing that we may have to adjust some of these 21 categories during the year, 'cause it's the first time we've 22 done this in quite a while. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, then, in addition 24 to the $64,000, which is already provided in our '03/'04 25 budget, we're going to allocate another approximately 11-11-03 53 1 $25,000; is that correct? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mm-hmm, correct. And I 3 would -- I don't think we have a -- a source, other than 4 going through reserves for that funding. I think -- at this 5 time in the budget, I don't think we can -- you know, we 6 don't have any line item that has that much money in it, or 7 several line items that can come up with that much. So, I 8 would -- clearly, this is an unanticipated event. I think 9 it qualifies as an emergency. I'll make a motion that we 10 approve the revised Environmental Health Department budget, 11 with the modifications noted today, and that the additional 12 $24,932 come from reserves. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to 15 approve the Environmental Health budget, as modified here 16 this morning, and to declare an emergency due to the nature 17 of the expenditures, and authorize the expenditure of 18 $24,932 towards that budget from reserves. Is that correct, 19 Commissioner Letz? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's correct. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Any further 22 question or discussion? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, my only 24 question is -- is to our attorney back there visiting with 25 the press. Does -- does this rise to an emergency? Simple 11-11-03 54 1 question. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He's looking. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Nobody wants to answer 4 it. Does it -- 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I guess there's 6 another question. Was it an unanticipated expenditure, 7 since we've been talking about this for six months? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It was unanticipated. It 9 was anticipated until October or September that U.G.R.A. was 10 going to administer this program this year, and we received 11 their letter in September, I guess, and we had 30 days 12 notice, which was unanticipated. Otherwise, we wouldn't 13 have put $64,000 in the budget for them to administer it. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm not trying to 15 throw a roadblock up in any way. I just don't want to go to 16 jail. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's all right, Buster. 19 I got space. It's a nice jail; it passed inspection. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree, it's a good 21 question. It needs to be answered, if it qualifies as an 22 emergency. I would think it would, considering some of the 23 other emergencies we've declared, but -- 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do too, compared to 25 some of the other things we've done. 11-11-03 55 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, there's the 2 County Attorney back there. Let's see what he says. 3 MR. MOTLEY: Does it qualify for the 4 expenditure of the funds? You talking about qualify as an 5 emergency, or are you talking about -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Does it qualify as an 7 emergency to go into reserves to get the funds? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Additional funds 9 necessary to fund a new department. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: A new department that was 11 not anticipated at the budget. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that an emergency? 13 MR. MOTLEY: I don't know that there's a, 14 quote, legal definition for an emergency. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, god. 16 MR. MOTLEY: Well, you asked me. I mean, 17 that's what I'm telling you. I don't know that there's a 18 legal definition for that. I think it's more of a layman's 19 understanding of the term "emergency." And I think 20 Commissioner Letz has said that -- and I think it was 21 probably -- I think from the time we got the written notice 22 from U.G.R.A. that they were not going to manage the 23 program, we only had one opportunity to put it on the agenda 24 at that point in time. I don't -- I hardly think somebody 25 could be expected to have a budget and everything all, you 11-11-03 56 1 know, constructed at that point in time, within -- you know, 2 I don't even know how many days we had to get it on the 3 agenda at that point. It was after the budget for the 4 fiscal year had been thoroughly hashed and rehashed and 5 adopted. And so I -- you know, "emergency" is sort of a 6 relative term, it seems to me. But, I mean, it was no way 7 to be anticipated. It seems to me there's no way, really, 8 to anticipate what U.G.R.A.'s final actions were going to 9 be. Maybe our -- our people -- our liaisons, I guess you'd 10 say, with U.G.R.A. might have had some inkling that was 11 coming, but it seemed to me that U.G.R.A. made a point of 12 saying that they gave us notice when they did in order to 13 give us plenty of time to act, and the time was short to act 14 at that point. So -- but, I mean, as far as what is an 15 emergency for dipping into reserve funds, I'm not aware of 16 any, you know, cases on it. I'll be happy to look at the 17 statute for that purpose and see if there's any similar 18 situations that you can compare it to. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a question. 20 Why couldn't we just as easily raise the anticipated 21 Environmental Health fees by $25,000, avoid a transfer of 22 funds at this point, and raise the fees accordingly? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we need to look 24 at our fees, but I think you get to a point of getting 25 unreasonable fees. 11-11-03 57 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't want to be 2 unreasonable, but I want this program to sustain itself. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it will. The 4 reason for the -- the $25,000 is basically the $32,000, 5 which goes for capital expenditures and building improvement 6 or annex finish-out. So, if you take that $32,000 out of 7 the budget, which is a one-time expenditure, the fees would, 8 you know, go a long ways to support the program. But fees 9 weren't supporting the program before we took over the 10 department. We were paying $64,000. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I know. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think we need to 13 try to go in that direction. But, you know, I don't -- I 14 think that's a long-term direction; I don't think you can do 15 it at one time. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well -- 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: As to the question 18 about whether or not it's a budget emergency, it occurs to 19 me that we've got a contractual obligation to administer the 20 O.S.S.F. program, and we're $25,000 short of being able to 21 meet that obligation, so that sounds like an emergency to 22 me. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, that's -- that 24 is a poor way to do that, though, is to put a program in 25 place and then come along, "Oh, yeah, we need money." I 11-11-03 58 1 don't function that way. But the Sheriff assures me that he 2 has space for me out there. I'm ready to vote. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: And I want you to be aware 4 that it's in top-notch shape out there. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, yeah. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm not sharing my 7 room with you out there. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely not. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: How are your carpentry 10 skills, Buster? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 12 discussion on the motion? Ms. Sovil? 13 MS. SOVIL: You might consider that y'all are 14 passing an annual budget, and you are already into the 15 second month of an annual budget. You've already had 16 $64,000 allocated to that line item. Why not just move the 17 $64,000; when you have expended all of that, then declare an 18 emergency and spend what you have to spend at the end of the 19 year? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And -- semicolon, and 21 raise the user fees accordingly to offset some of the 22 deficiency. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: That would certainly be one 24 option. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's an option, too. 11-11-03 59 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, it is an option. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 3 discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion, 4 signify by raising your right hand. 5 (Commissioner Nicholson voted in favor of the motion.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 7 (Commissioner Baldwin voted against the 8 motion.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion fails. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We need to discuss it 11 a little bit more, I think. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't see why we 14 have to do it today. We've got $64,000 already allocated. 15 There's going to be user fees coming in, so what's the sense 16 of emergency? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have to have money in 18 the budget so they can start getting paid. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You got $64,000 in 20 the budget. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, you know, we can 22 start for a while, but I think you need to start working on 23 a -- a budget -- I don't think it's fair to ask a department 24 to run with no guidance as to what is expected. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree with that, 11-11-03 60 1 but you've already got $64,000 in place. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, irregardless, 3 it's going to have to come out of reserves, whether we do it 4 today or next month. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If we need it. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think it's a good 8 point; I think Ms. Sovil's point is correct. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do too. I think 10 you're going to need it. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All we need is 12 eleven-twelfths of the numbers that we've just -- that my 13 motion included. And I would -- I think there's no reason 14 to budget that full amount. I think we should budget 15 eleven-twelfths of every line item, because one month is 16 fully gone out of the current budget. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why don't we take a 18 whack at it in December? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think we need 20 to -- 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or later this month? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We need to put something 23 in line items right now, because we need to operate; we 24 don't have money for office -- for anything. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's the $64,000? 11-11-03 61 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's not in a line item 2 where it can be even expended. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, let's move it. 4 MS. SOVIL: Well, approve the budget and then 5 approve the budget amendment to move the money. And then 6 you're approving a budget, and that gives them the authority 7 to spend. You're just moving not quite enough money to 8 carry you through the full year. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: We can move the $64,000 by 10 budget amendment from the contract. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We've already done that. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Has that been transferred? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's already been done 14 by Court Order 28357, but it's not put into any line items. 15 We need to put it in line items so that they can start 16 expending the money where they need it for office equipment, 17 forms, things of that nature. And I don't have any problem 18 if we can -- just to get started, to take the $64,000, 19 divide it up proportionately the way it was submitted here. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 21 MS. SOVIL: We don't have the money to 22 operate our budget that the Sheriff has until our tax money 23 comes in, so that shouldn't be any different than approving 24 -- just approve the budget. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But we've approved -- 11-11-03 62 1 MS. SOVIL: Just approve the budget. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, but we -- the 3 Sheriff's budget is based on the tax rate. 4 MS. SOVIL: Right. But we don't have the 5 full amount of money at the time we're approving it. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But they're still 7 budgeted. We have a deficit budget this year because of his 8 budget. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Oh, now, wait. 10 MS. SOVIL: I'm not touching that one. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: We're going to hear about 12 that. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, Sheriff, you 14 finally got yourself mixed up in O.S.S.F. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: How did that ever come 16 about? I know, I'll just make y'all trustees, and we'll 17 have -- we'll all get the work done. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't care how much 19 money we put in these line items. I just think we need to 20 put enough to get that department up and running, give 21 Miguel the money he needs to operate. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't disagree. 23 You got $64,000 plus an anticipated $77,000. Why couldn't 24 those dollars be allocated, see where it takes it? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can do that, take 64 11-11-03 63 1 and 77 and divide it proportionately. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I move that we take 3 the $64,000 that's already allocated for Environmental 4 Health, in addition to the anticipated fees of $77,000, and 5 apply them appropriately to the budget that's been submitted 6 for the Environmental Health Department. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: And the same ratios as the 8 numbers now appear? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I have a motion. Do I 11 hear a second? 12 (No response.) 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion -- 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion fails for lack of a 15 second. Do I hear a further motion? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I make a motion that we 17 approve a budget with the amounts listed for the -- but 18 reduce them to eleven-twelfths for the year, and the 19 moneys -- the additional funds would come from reserves. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: On the basis of a declared 22 emergency? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that 25 the budget be approved as amended, but reduced 11-11-03 64 1 proportionately by one-twelfth in each line item, and that 2 an emergency be declared, and the difference over and above 3 the $64,000 and anticipated revenues of $77,000 come from 4 reserves. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Question. What is 6 the amount that's going to come from reserves? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Take 185,250; 8 eleven-twelfths of that's going to be the budget. 9 MS. SOVIL: I'll go calculate it. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: On my table back there in the 11 back, in that big table, there's a big calculator, if you 12 would, please. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I come up with 14 $169,812.50; just say 812. 15 (Judge Tinley used calculator.) 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's total budget? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the amount coming from 18 reserves. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What is the amount? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 14,312 -- 313. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How much? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: $14,313. 23 (Discussion off the record.) 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And what was the 25 amount that we have budgeted to send over there? Sixty -- 11-11-03 65 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: $64,000. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 64. And you added 3 those two numbers together, and that's -- and that's the 4 budget; is that right? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Budget 64 plus 77 plus 6 3,500 plus 14,313. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see, okay. So, as 8 far as that court order is concerned that we're voting on 9 right now, we're talking about $14,313? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To come -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Coming out of 12 reserves? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I didn't know there's 15 that much money in the whole world. 16 MR. ARREOLA: Question. Were you going to 17 do -- $24,932 was the original number, and then do 18 eleven-twelfths of that? Did I understand that right? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, we just reduced 20 every line item proportionately. 21 MR. ARREOLA: Oh, okay. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And it came out with a -- 23 MR. ARREOLA: 'Cause we're going to need 24 $24,932. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But you've already 11-11-03 66 1 spent -- one month's gone. 2 MR. ARREOLA: So, we're going to do -- one 3 month's gone only of those 24,000? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: $14,313. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which line item are 6 you speaking to? 7 MR. ARREOLA: The last one, the additional 8 funds needed for budget. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, actually, we need to 10 take out the -- we need to take -- out of the $169,432, we 11 need to take out the capital outlay and the annex finish-out 12 too, so that figure's going to change. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I believe we have enough 14 in those line items right now to take it out. Judge, I 15 think the capital outlay expenditure is going to be less 16 than $22,000. I think the finish-out will be less than -- 17 like, $10,000. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: That can't be right; I missed 19 a digit there. 20 (Discussion off the record.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I took -- took capital outlay 22 out, took eleven-twelfths, then added the capital outlay 23 back in, and then subtracted the 77 and the 64. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We need a new motion. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What new number did 11-11-03 67 1 you come up with, Judge? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: $16,980. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Of reserves? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 16 -- 6 JUDGE TINLEY: 980. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And declare -- 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's the total 9 budget? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Total budget would then be 11 $157,980. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Let me amend my motion to 13 all budget categories except capital outlay and annex 14 finish-out will be reduced by eleven-twelfths. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: One-twelfth? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Reduced by one-twelfth, 17 correct. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Reduce to 19 eleven-twelfths? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Reduce to 21 eleven-twelfths, and that would give us a total budget of 22 $157,980, and $16,980 will come from reserves, the balance 23 of that budget. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I second that 25 amended motion. 11-11-03 68 1 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and a second. 2 Any further discussion or question? All in favor of the 3 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On which one -- what -- 9 we're under 1.8? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, that was under 1.8. How 11 long are you going to take on 1.9? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I only have one very 13 short item on 1.9. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 15 MR. MOTLEY: Judge Tinley? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes? 17 MR. MOTLEY: The statute here talks about -- 18 under the budgeting, requires that the -- if there's receipt 19 of revenue from a new source not anticipated before the 20 adoption of the budget and not included in the budget for 21 that year, that those funds may be -- the Court may adopt a 22 special budget for the limited purposes of spending that new 23 revenue for those purposes. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: That's exactly what we did. 25 MR. MOTLEY: And that seems to comport with 11-11-03 69 1 what the Court did. It was anticipated that that would be 2 an expenditure, and the expenditure's no longer necessary, 3 and instead, that will become a revenue to the County by 4 virtue of fees and such that would be received. And, in 5 addition, this idea of the emergency provision, grave public 6 necessity is a decision typically left up to the 7 Commissioners Court as a matter of determination of fact, 8 and I'm not sure -- this money that we're talking about 9 transferring from unencumbered funds, I mean, it's really 10 not raising -- it's not raising taxes or raising funds; 11 they're funds that were already, quote, in the budget. They 12 weren't -- there's a surplus line item or whatever, county 13 reserves, whatever you call it, so it was in the budget. 14 It's not -- in other words, I think the -- the key issue 15 that would trip the provision -- this emergency provision 16 would be to have to raise additional tax funds or have a new 17 levy or something like that. And I think none of that is 18 required by what the Court's done, so I don't -- I don't 19 see -- and the Court is able to transfer funds from line 20 item to line item as it sees fit, and it seems to me that 21 this is more in the nature of transferring funds from a -- 22 from these unencumbered funds over to this new expenditure. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Well, what we actually 24 did was we anticipated the $77,000 in revenue, which had not 25 been anticipated in the original budget, because at the time 11-11-03 70 1 of the preparation of budget, we did not anticipate that we 2 were going to be operating the program; therefore, receiving 3 those fees. In addition, we transferred over the $64,000 4 that we were going to pay in contract costs for the 5 administration of that program by a third-party into this, 6 and it still left us some almost $17,000 short. So, it was 7 for that that we declared the emergency, and the Court 8 apparently took the position that, in our view, at least, it 9 was an emergency. We declared an emergency and went to the 10 reserves for the $16,980, so I -- I think we've got all 11 three of them covered. 12 MR. MOTLEY: I believe that's fine. I just 13 want to read one other thing. It says the Commissioners 14 Court may transfer an existing budget surplus during the 15 fiscal year to a budget of a similar kind and fund. It may 16 not increase the total of the budget. So, I don't think the 17 total of the budget has been affected in one way or the 18 other. Am I mistaken on that? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think you are 20 mistaken on that. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, $17,000. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The reserve fund is 23 outside the budget. 24 MR. MOTLEY: Okay. All right. I just 25 thought it was something that was provided for as a 11-11-03 71 1 baseline; what was there last year, what was there this 2 year, that it was written up in the budget document. In any 3 event, I think the Court has gone outside, and I don't see 4 that the Court could have reasonably anticipated at the time 5 it was given notice that this obligation would be on the 6 County's shoulders, so -- 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 8 MR. MOTLEY: -- I don't think there's a 9 problem with that. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, Rusty, cancel my 11 room. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'll just cancel your 13 suit, Buster. A black and white one was reserved already. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: No more watering the soup. 15 Consider and discuss the transition of the O.S.S.F. and 16 Floodplain program from the U.G.R.A. to the Environmental 17 Department and the County Engineer respectively. Have we 18 not pretty well covered all these, or have we got a catch-up 19 item to do? 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I've got a couple. 21 The three employees that we hired from the U.G.R.A., we had 22 told them that their effective date of employment would be 23 November 3rd, and that they would be eligible for medical 24 insurance in 30 days. Turns out that -- I'm told that the 25 waiting period requires that they be on it for a full month, 11-11-03 72 1 so in this case, they would be required to wait 59 days 2 before eligibility for insurance. So, I have a motion to 3 cure that, by -- by changing the court order that made their 4 employment date November 3rd, to change it to November 1st. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second -- third. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to 8 change the employment date of the O.S.S.F. 9 Inspector-slash-Manager and the -- and the two clerical 10 personnel that were hired from November 3rd, 2003, to 11 November 1st, 2003. Any further question or discussion on 12 the motion? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That fixes the 14 insurance problem? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Three days? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's the calendar month, 18 so I've been told. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 20 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 21 your right hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything further under that 11-11-03 73 1 particular agenda item, gentlemen? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the only other 3 item is just a report item, and it's just from a -- the 4 Court's aware of kind of what I think Dave and I -- or I 5 told both Miguel and U.G.R.A. that any fees that are being 6 collected in the interim are going into the U.G.R.A. 7 account; they're going to reimburse us once the transition 8 is complete. It was easier to do it that way, rather than 9 go ahead and have people run back and forth from the 10 courthouse to U.G.R.A. office to, you know, handle that. 11 But that will -- you know, for both entities, it seemed like 12 the sensible way to do it. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Best practice solution. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. And, as I 15 understand it, the move will take place either this Friday 16 or this -- or a week from yesterday, Monday, depending on 17 how work progresses. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further items, information 19 or otherwise, to come under that agenda item? If not, I'll 20 declare us in recess until a quarter till 11:00. 21 (Recess taken from 10:29 a.m. to 10:45 a.m.) 22 - - - - - - - - - - 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Next item on the agenda -- we 24 will reconvene at this time. It's a bit after 10:45. Next 25 item on the agenda is consider and discuss adopting merit 11-11-03 74 1 pay policies and procedures. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: This is a rewritten, 3 altered merit pay policy based on the suggested changes that 4 were made in our last Commissioners Court meeting. And 5 those changes are, under Definitions, the definition of 6 meritorious job performance, the last sentence was added 7 to -- to include employees who -- whose performance exceeds 8 the normal job expectations and accomplish significant or 9 sacrificial results regardless of budgetary impact. 10 Earlier, we had said that nominations would be only for 11 those employees who the job performance resulted in cost 12 savings or revenue increases, and in our last meeting we 13 talked about examples, such as Sheriff's deputies that have 14 the opportunity to do that, but they do other sacrificial or 15 heroic performance that would deserve a nomination. The 16 second change is the Procedures, the nominations, and 17 increase effective dates to do that four times a year 18 instead of once a year. And the third change was in the top 19 of the second page, Notification, to make it clear that, in 20 addition to notifying supervisors, that the County Treasurer 21 needs to be informed of any approved nominations and the 22 amount of pay increases. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I like it better. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Uecker? You have -- I'm 25 shocked -- something to say? 11-11-03 75 1 MS. UECKER: That wasn't very nice. Although 2 I support a policy to grant merit increases, I think this 3 one may have its problems. Commissioners Court does not 4 have the authority to determine the recipient of a merit 5 increase. A.G. opinion DM-273 says "the Commissioners Court 6 shall exercise such powers and jurisdiction over all county 7 business as is conferred by this constitution and the laws 8 of this state. The court may exercise only those powers as 9 the constitution or the statutes expressly grant, and no 10 others." And there's also some case law in JM -- A.G. 11 Opinion JM-430, Tarrant County vs. Smith, SW 2d, 8537. "A 12 distinction must be drawn between authorizing general salary 13 increases and determining which individual shall receive 14 those increases. See also Opinion H-1113." Renfro vs. 15 Shropshire, which is a Travis County case, is on point where 16 it states that "The Commissioners Court has no legal right 17 to screen applicants or to veto appointments by a County 18 Clerk into positions at various steps." 19 Then there's several more recent opinions 20 that say that the Commissioners Court may, in effect, tell 21 the official what resources it will place at its disposal, 22 but may not micromanage the decisions as to the use of those 23 resources. And there's -- there's several others, and I 24 have copies of them. And I think the -- your plan is a 25 little bit unclear as -- I mean, I like the concept, and I 11-11-03 76 1 like the policy -- I mean, the construction of it, except 2 that it's unclear as to, okay, today we're going to do -- 3 we're going to have to decide who gets an increase. Okay. 4 Are we going to do four out of five? Could it be that all 5 of them could be granted? Or are we going to do 30 percent, 6 or -- or what? I don't think the policy is clear. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think you're missing 8 the point. I can assure you that if you come down here with 9 your whole department getting a merit increase, the answer 10 is no. 11 MS. UECKER: No, that's not my question. 12 What I'm saying is -- what my question is, if everybody in 13 -- if every elected official comes in with an appointment, 14 is it going to be the policy that they may all get it? Or 15 today we're going to do two out of four? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think they may all. I 17 think there's some budget constraints, but I think that -- I 18 mean, you're looking at -- there may be one or two a year, 19 the way I see it. I don't think -- I mean, this is a merit 20 -- this is a -- this is above and beyond. 21 MS. UECKER: Well, and I understand that. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But this is also one of 23 the reasons I wasn't in favor of it early on, but we did 24 vote for it. I think we need -- we'll give it a shot. 25 MS. UECKER: Well, I apologize that I wasn't 11-11-03 77 1 here the first time this came up; I was in a training class. 2 If I might offer up a suggestion, just an alternative, is I 3 think the statutes allow -- and the County Attorney can help 4 me here -- that a salary grievance committee may be composed 5 of each elected official, including the County Judge, one 6 appointee from the Commissioners Court, and -- and a 7 department head to make those decisions, rather than the 8 Commissioners Court. You know, and the reason this came 9 up -- and I know this has been an issue in some of the 10 larger counties, and there's been many, many A.G.'s opinions 11 written on -- on the subject. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I guess -- 13 MS. UECKER: I mean, I don't want us to do 14 something that's not legal. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't see, from the 16 things you read -- and I think it needs to be run by the 17 County Attorney -- that we can't do this. I mean, based 18 on -- if we can't give a merit increase, well, then we can't 19 give any merit increases ever. 20 MS. UECKER: It says generally you can't. 21 But the Court cannot determine -- determine which of those 22 employees will get a merit increase. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We vote on the budget. 24 MS. UECKER: Generally, yes, you do. You 25 vote -- but when it comes down to saying, "This merit 11-11-03 78 1 increase is granted and this one is not," based on 2 applications from elected officials, I don't think you can 3 do that. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How is that different 5 than if we do it during the budget process? You reorganize 6 your department and recommend a new salary level for certain 7 employees, and we approve it. 8 MS. UECKER: That doesn't -- that doesn't 9 have anything to do with merit increases. 'Cause you're 10 generally -- see, you're generally -- when you -- when we 11 come in there, you're saying, okay, this salary line item is 12 approved, generally. Of course, there -- there's going to 13 be a merit increase, but you have not specifically decided 14 that Jane Doe is going to get a merit increase. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or Joe Doe is not. 16 MS. UECKER: Right, exactly. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. Of course, 18 -- of course, the opinion that you cited was a Jim Mattox 19 opinion, which does not apply to Kerr County. (Laughter.) 20 MS. UECKER: And there are several newer 21 ones. And, you know, I just wanted to bring it up, 22 because -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 24 MS. UECKER: -- I think it does have its 25 problems. 11-11-03 79 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm not sure that the 2 committee is the right -- that particular committee is the 3 right place to put it, either. But the language that the 4 Commissioners put in here about -- about how it affects the 5 budget -- I've lost it now. 6 MS. UECKER: It says regardless of impact. 7 It's in the middle of the page, meritorious job performance 8 or sacrificial results regardless of budgetary impact. Is 9 that the one you're referring to? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. Stand by for a 11 second. 12 MS. UECKER: I mean, I guess the point I'm 13 trying to make is -- and, you know, I've been here a long 14 time. I've seen this happen. When we were doing job 15 studies, reevaluations and salary studies, we -- you know, I 16 fear that it's going to be whoever can fluff up their 17 application the most. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, you're not 19 giving us enough credit. 20 MS. UECKER: Well, no. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I can tell the 22 difference between routine, everyday, get-to-work-on-time 23 performance and meritorious performance. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I can too. But I 25 agree with you, I -- and I never have thought that that 11-11-03 80 1 should be the place for the Commissioners Court to make that 2 decision. I -- I see a major train wreck coming with the 3 whole thing. 4 MS. UECKER: Well, you know, I don't really 5 have that big a problem with it, 'cause I have confidence in 6 myself enough that I think I can, you know, make a decent 7 application for an employee who -- that deserves a merit 8 increase. I'm just concerned -- I just don't want us to do 9 what is not allowed by the statute. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Your comments said 11 basically -- I mean, I think your first question raised 12 is -- and what you said is we can't do this. So, if we 13 can't do it, the rest of it is a moot discussion, and why 14 are we talking about it? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: That's my thinking. If the 16 law is clear that the Commissioners Court does not have the 17 authority to grant a pay increase to a specific named 18 individual, to the exclusion of another specific named 19 individual, if that's the law -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's the law. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: -- I think we -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're done. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: -- shut it down and go on from 24 here. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, are we certain? 11-11-03 81 1 Are we certain about that? If that's the law, that's the 2 law, but I'd like to know the County Attorney's -- 3 MS. UECKER: And the County Attorney can do 4 some research on it, but -- and I do have -- you know, 5 you're welcome to my -- 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What I'd really like 7 to see is the County Attorney either confirm what the 8 District Clerk is telling us is so, or her interpretation of 9 A.G. opinions, and if that is true, is there another way to 10 do it that is legal? 11 MS. UECKER: Yeah, because I'm -- I'm very 12 supportive of a merit policy, which I've told you during the 13 budget process. I just don't want us to do something that's 14 going to get us in trouble. Because there's been -- there's 15 a lot of case law on it, and -- Dave, what do you think? 16 MR. MOTLEY: I don't have a clue. I haven't 17 looked into it. Nobody said a word to me about it before 18 the deal, and so I -- you know, I'd have to look it over. 19 I'd need to look at the case and look at the A.G. opinions. 20 That's not something that I have, you know, in the back of 21 my mind right now. I'm wondering if what Linda's saying is 22 distinguishable from a situation where the money is in a 23 reserve fund, and the Commissioners don't allocate the money 24 to that department head until such time as they receive the 25 application and approve it -- that individual for receiving 11-11-03 82 1 the funds, and then allocate the money at that time. It 2 wouldn't, at that point, be the Commissioners that are 3 giving the raise to anybody. It would be the department 4 head that's suggesting -- I mean, I don't know exactly if 5 that's what we're proposing, but it might be the idea that 6 the Commissioners aren't, per se, determining who gets it 7 and who doesn't. They're looking at who has made the best 8 case for their own employee, and saying that Linda or Rusty 9 or myself, whatever, has made the best case in that -- 10 during that quarter or that six-month period, whatever, and 11 then, at that point in time, then fund additional moneys to 12 that budget. I don't know if that's -- I'll be happy to 13 look at what Linda has. 14 MS. UECKER: And the only reason, you know, 15 it -- it came up to me is -- I might have never even thought 16 about it -- is I recently attended a seminar where part of 17 it was on this point, and it was human resources. 18 MR. MOTLEY: Maybe some of these other 19 counties that are doing this have some sort of a civil 20 service situation. 21 MS. UECKER: No, there is -- there is an 22 exception to counties over 335,000; commissioners courts in 23 those counties may do that under a separate statute. Which 24 means Harris County, Dallas County. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- I mean, let's 11-11-03 83 1 refer this policy here to the County Attorney and see if we 2 can do it, and then we can worry about adjusting it. 3 MS. UECKER: I'll give you -- 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let's move. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: It's in your lap, Mr. Motley. 6 Anything further on that particular agenda item? Next item, 7 consider and discuss permission to use courthouse and 8 courthouse grounds for the annual courthouse lighting 9 ceremony on the 22nd day of November of this year, starting 10 at 7 p.m., and permission to hire the Maintenance Supervisor 11 for the setup. That may be an inappropriate 12 characterization of hiring him. They have a way of -- of 13 providing him some assistance for his people that are 14 working as volunteers. So -- 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In addition -- Judge, 16 in addition to that which is in the agenda, on my e-mail I 17 just opened a while ago, a member of the -- a request came 18 from the Christmas Parade Committee to the Christmas 19 Lighting Board, wondering if they could store four golf 20 carts in the storeroom where the Christmas lighting 21 materials are stored from Thursday, November 20, through the 22 24th for use of the parade. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: 24th is on a Monday? Yeah. 24 Do you have room where they store the Christmas lighting 25 materials to store four golf carts? 11-11-03 84 1 MR. HOLEKAMP: I don't think they'll fit 2 through the door. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: They won't. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How about the space 5 adjacent to it? 6 MR. HOLEKAMP: The sallyport? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the sallyport, 8 okay. 9 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can't do that. I 11 don't know if they will or not. If they won't fit in the 12 door, it's academic. 13 MR. HOLEKAMP: They don't fit through that 14 36-inch door. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's academic. The 16 answer is no. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And, so, explain to me 18 about hiring the Maintenance Supervisor one more time. I 19 missed it. 20 MR. HOLEKAMP: Do you want me to explain 21 that? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, why don't you, Mr. 23 Holekamp? 24 MR. HOLEKAMP: Okay. That's -- in the past, 25 the last few years, Wells Fargo Bank puts on the -- they 11-11-03 85 1 actually fund the Christmas lighting here at the courthouse. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The program. 3 MR. HOLEKAMP: Program, yeah. Christmas 4 lighting program that starts at 7 o'clock in the evening. 5 They sing and have a program. I think Steve Brown comes and 6 does a talk, and several others, and what happens -- and if 7 my schedule tells me correctly, at 7:34 the lights come on, 8 and that requires me to have several of my people here to 9 flip those lights on simultaneously. And -- and in the 10 past -- well, I'll say four years ago, I guess it was, they 11 hired different people, kids -- young people, and I kind of 12 told them I really wasn't too keen on having different 13 people in these electrical rooms flipping on switches. So, 14 we took it upon ourselves -- well, Wells Fargo indicated to 15 us that they were willing to make a donation or pay the 16 people that flip on these lights, so -- and I chose not to 17 take money for myself. What I did is, I said, "If you wish 18 to make a donation to the Maintenance Department for a 19 Christmas party, that would be appreciated." So, the last 20 two years they've done that; they've given me a check, and 21 what I do is I -- we have our Christmas party, fund the food 22 and that sort of thing. So, that's really what that is -- 23 that pay is all about, because I have to bring my people 24 in -- or ask them. And I don't -- they're not being paid, 25 you know, hourly rates. It's basically volunteer basis that 11-11-03 86 1 they come in. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion's made and seconded for 6 approval of the agenda item. Any further question or 7 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 8 your right hand. 9 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Next item 13 is to consider and discuss approving contract between Kerr 14 County and the Mountain Home and Center Point Volunteer Fire 15 Departments, and authorizing County Judge to sign the same. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So moved. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 19 approval of the agenda item. Any further question or 20 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 21 your right hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Next item 11-11-03 87 1 is consideration and discussion of the approval of form 2 contracts between Kerr County and the County-sponsored 3 entities, and authorize the Judge to sign the same as they 4 are returned. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 8 approval the agenda item. Any question or discussion? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. What -- 10 tell me what the County-sponsored entities are. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: There are several of them. 12 Historical Commission -- 13 MS. SOVIL: No. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: No, not -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're out in that book. 16 While Thea's getting that, I have a comment. This really is 17 more for, probably, Mr. Motley. I believe the contracts, 18 under some of them -- I think all of them -- talks about all 19 the provisions, all this other stuff, and they go back -- 20 there's a notice part of it, and they -- I believe they say 21 all that stuff goes to the County Judge. I think that all 22 should go to the Commissioners Court. I don't think it's 23 something we need to change this year; it's not a big deal, 24 but I think that these -- I mean, the contracts are approved 25 by the Court, not by the Judge, and the Judge has certain 11-11-03 88 1 capacities. He's Judge and he sits on the Commissioners 2 Court. It's a Commissioners Court contract, not Judge 3 contract. So I just -- 4 MR. MOTLEY: Are you talking about the notice 5 of some default? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All that stuff that says, 7 you know, paperwork all gets forwarded to his office. 8 MR. MOTLEY: Well, and I hear what you're 9 saying. I mean, and I think the intent in putting the 10 County Judge down is that he be the -- you know, the 11 administrative representative of the Court to receive such 12 items on behalf of the Court. If we name the Court, we 13 would probably need to name some individual or some position 14 to receive those things, and that's, I guess, where that 15 came from. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. That doesn't -- 17 it's not that big a deal, just something that I noticed. 18 And the reason is because they're -- they're made by the 19 Court. 20 MR. MOTLEY: Okay. And I don't have any 21 problem with that. I guess -- I think the -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: For future contracts, 23 just something to file away. 24 MR. MOTLEY: Do what? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: For future contracts, 11-11-03 89 1 just something to file away in your -- 2 MR. MOTLEY: Okay. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Baldwin, the 4 contracts in question are CASA, Dietert Claim, Hill Country 5 Crisis Council, Kerr County Soil and Water Conservation 6 District, Kerr Economic Development Foundation, Kid's 7 Advocacy Place, and K'Star. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And there will be one 9 additional, which would be for the public transportation. 10 That's on Mr. Motley's desk for the drafting. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: More than one addition. 12 MR. MOTLEY: Two additional. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Region J is also -- 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Region J also. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Because U.G.R.A. is also 16 part of that, that's over at one of their -- for them to 17 look at it as well, 'cause they have some obligations on 18 that contract. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I guess my 20 question is -- is, what are we voting on? This stack? Or 21 are we including transportation and Region J? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That stack. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd like to third the 24 motion. That's -- translated, I'm ready to vote. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, as I read the agenda 11-11-03 90 1 item, form contracts and County-sponsored entities, this 2 would seem to apply to the other two that we don't yet have 3 in-hand. They're on the same format, though. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what I thought. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Budget's already been 6 approved. 7 MR. MOTLEY: They're all a little bit 8 different, actually. There's some -- some unique features 9 to each one. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Because of the nature of the 11 services provided, primarily? 12 MR. MOTLEY: Right. And -- well, I -- 13 Jonathan's -- some of these entities we're contracting with 14 are governmental entities, as opposed to a nonprofit 15 corporation, and so there's different, oh, insurance 16 requirements, different immunities, different things like 17 that stated in the contract. So, each one -- Jonathan's is 18 basically, I think, done, and he's going to run that by 19 U.G.R.A. And then Commissioner Williams, I just fairly 20 recently received that information. I think he was out of 21 town during the time most of those were being drawn up. So, 22 what I propose to the Court, I mean, I will have those other 23 two within the foreseeable future. If you just want to wait 24 on those two and just approve them when they come in, 25 because it does say something in the item about -- well, 11-11-03 91 1 authorize them to sign as they are returned. Well -- so, I 2 -- whatever y'all want to do on that. But I -- I'll have 3 those other two. I just don't have them yet. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Jannett, who made the motion? 5 MS. PIEPER: Commissioner Letz. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Commissioner Letz, your 7 motion applies to which contracts? The ones we have 8 in-hand? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Only? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's fine. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any further questions 15 or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 16 raising your right hand. 17 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Next item 21 is consider and discuss selection of a member of Kerr County 22 Commissioners Court to serve on Animal Resources and 23 Development Council. George Holekamp brought this to me, 24 and he's interested in this group, and there are a number of 25 appointments that are made to this group, only one of which 11-11-03 92 1 requires our particular attention, and that being one 2 designated as one county government official. When I asked 3 him if that could be any county government official; for 4 example, the County Clerk or the Tax Assessor or a constable 5 or whatever, he indicated that he didn't think so. His 6 understanding was a member of the Commissioners Court. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I have served 8 my time in the barrel. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Me too. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have served my time. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Guess what, Number 4? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll point to the 13 Judge and Commissioner. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't want 15 appointed. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Looks like you're it, 17 Judge. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Congratulations. 19 We're so proud of you, Pat. We appreciate your service to 20 our great community. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're going to love 22 it. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: God, thank you. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: I thought you only got those 25 kind of kudos when you failed to show. You, therefore, won 11-11-03 93 1 by default. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sometimes when you're 3 slow on the retort. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I see. Maybe I can get a 5 reclarification of that position. "Any county official" 6 would be -- would be -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: May want to turn that 8 one over to Motley. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In which case, we'll 10 send a constable. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Would you have a nomination in 12 that particular case, Mr. Baldwin? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, I would, as a 14 matter of fact. But what do you want to do right now? I 15 mean, I have a motion ready. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: I didn't hear it soon enough; 17 we're going to move on to the next item. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move that we 19 nominate the honorable, great and holy one, Pat Tinley, to 20 serve on the A.R. -- A.R.D.C. Council. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. 23 Any -- any question or discussion? I suppose it would be 24 fruitless for me to get into some sort of discussion. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It would. 11-11-03 94 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All in favor of the motion, 2 signify by raising your right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Show that as a 8 unanimous vote. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You'll love it, 10 Judge. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Great -- great amount of 12 confidence. Okay, next item. Do we have any items to move 13 into executive or closed session about? None that you're 14 aware of, Mr. Motley? 15 MR. MOTLEY: No, sir. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We're now down to 17 paying the bills. 18 MS. WILLIAMS: Morning. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning. 20 MS. WILLIAMS: As you can tell, I'm not 21 Mr. Tomlinson. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move we pay the 23 bills. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that 11-11-03 95 1 we pay the bills. Any questions or discussions on any 2 items? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I do have one 4 here. I just can't -- and I think I've asked this question 5 before, and I apologize; I can't remember what it was. On 6 the Commissioners Court bills, Hill Country Telephone. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's probably my 8 telephone. I don't know if it is or not. Might be my 9 telephone in Center Point. 10 MS. WILLIAMS: That is the phone in Center 11 Point. It's split between Commissioners Court and J.P. 2's 12 budget. They split the monthly expense on the phone that's 13 located at the office in Center Point. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. All right. And 15 then the one above that, the Kerrville Telephone Company? 16 MS. WILLIAMS: That is the -- I think that's 17 a portion -- a prorated portion of the bill for the outgoing 18 trunk lines for here at the courthouse. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So it's not -- there's 20 no long distance calls or anything on there? 21 MS. WILLIAMS: No, sir. I believe, on that 22 one, those are the outgoing trunk lines. The large bill, 23 Nona's still working on. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. All right, 25 thank you. 11-11-03 96 1 MS. WILLIAMS: You're welcome. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other question or 3 discussion? 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I just have an 5 observation. We -- we spend thousands of dollars a month 6 for lease copiers, printers, and copy paper, and I wonder if 7 that, you know, deserves taking a look at to find out if 8 there's a better or easier or cheaper way to do that. I 9 just throw that out to think about at some other time. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: A copy room? 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't know. I 12 don't know if that's a good idea or not. It's a lot of 13 money. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I know exactly the reason 15 that K.I.S.D. -- they have, obviously, a totally different 16 situation with teachers, but they have a large copy room, 17 which is a separate facility. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I remember seeing 19 those in the old days. There'd be a line of people standing 20 in front of the door, and -- 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Counter-productive. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, that's the problem. 23 You get into productivity issues with people walking back 24 and forth to copy. 25 MS. WILLIAMS: And we have -- in the past, we 11-11-03 97 1 had purchased copiers. What we ran into there is, the 2 upkeep on them was pretty expensive. With the lease copiers 3 that we have now, the service is provided; most of the 4 supplies are provided, with the exception of paper. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which prompts me to 6 ask, just for information, was a copier included in the 7 Environmental Health Department's capital -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I believe so. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 'Cause they're going 10 to need it. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have a general 12 question. This is kind of just -- I don't know if the rest 13 of the Court listened to the news or heard the same story I 14 did yesterday, but there was a pretty significant change 15 regarding phone service. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, saw it in the 17 paper. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think that's 19 something that, really, we need to be very careful not to 20 enter any long-term contracts on phones right now, because, 21 as I understand it, the fact that K.T.C. is here doesn't 22 mean a whole lot; that we can switch or -- you know, or will 23 be able to, I presume, do business as well. Cell phones and 24 land lines are about to become totally intermixed, and we 25 can switch numbers back and forth wherever we get the best 11-11-03 98 1 rates, and keep the same numbers. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think -- I don't 4 know how that all sorts out, but I think it's something -- 5 with the amount we spend on phones, both cell and land 6 lines, that may be something that we really are very 7 cautious about going into long-term contracts on for a 8 while. And I know -- I think we just did one. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The article I read 10 indicates that a company the size of K.T.C. has got about 11 six months to get ready for it. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The other big guys 14 have got to do it pretty quick. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Two weeks. Smaller 16 communities have six months, but still, it's a -- it could 17 be an area for potential savings, and I suspect some larger 18 players may enter the Kerrville market or the small markets, 19 just because of the availability. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: I believe you've taken this -- 21 the ruling was November 24th? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's for large 23 communities that are, I believe -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The big boys. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- the top hundred 11-11-03 99 1 thousand market, which I doubt we're in that. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The Bells and so 4 forth. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or 6 discussion? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: In -- in this group of 8 bills, is Mr. Barron's bill -- is this a late bill, or is 9 this included? 10 MS. WILLIAMS: That is not in the fund 11 requirements. That is a late bill. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Late bill. Any further 13 question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify 14 by raising your right hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Next we 19 have budget amendments. 20 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. We have two of 21 them. The first one is for J.P., Precinct 3. It has also a 22 late bill attached. We had to get them a new computer 23 system, and we were short a little bit of money, being able 24 to pay the freight charges, so what she wanted to do is move 25 the needed money out of Miscellaneous up to Operating 11-11-03 100 1 Equipment to take care of that expense, and to also get us 2 the authorization to issue a hand check to pay this bill. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: To whom? 4 MS. WILLIAMS: Dell Marketing. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Dell? Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to 9 approve Budget Request Number 1 and authorize hand check to 10 Dell Marketing in the total amount? 11 MS. WILLIAMS: Total check is $1,786. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: 1,700 -- there's enough money 13 otherwise? 14 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: This is just -- okay. 16 MS. WILLIAMS: Right. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Authorize a hand check to Dell 18 Marketing for $1,786. Any further question or discussion? 19 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 20 hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Budget Amendment Request 25 Number 2. 11-11-03 101 1 MS. WILLIAMS: Okay. Budget Amendment Number 2 2 is for the Jury Fund. We have a bill from Hart Intercivic 3 in the amount of $1,536.60 for -- I believe it's jury 4 summons cards. Basically, we don't have enough money in the 5 line item to pay for it, so we are wanting to move -- or 6 actually, the County Auditor is wanting to move $1,000 out 7 of Court Reporter Expenses up to the Operating Supply line 8 item in the Jury Fund, and to get the authorization to issue 9 a hand check to pay this bill, because the bill is dated 10 early October. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: And the hand check is in what 12 amount? 13 MS. WILLIAMS: $1,536.60. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: To whom? 15 MS. WILLIAMS: To Hart Intercivic. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to 20 approve Budget Amendment Request Number 2 and authorize hand 21 check in the amount of $1,536.60 to Hart Intercivic. Any 22 further question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, 23 signify by raising your right hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 11-11-03 102 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. 3 MS. WILLIAMS: I believe this one was already 4 covered. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Now we have a -- 6 MS. WILLIAMS: Late bill for Stuart Barron. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: -- late bill, mm-hmm. 8 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. This is to cover 9 the hours that he worked Monday and Tuesday of last week. I 10 touched base with Mr. Letz on it earlier. We've set it up 11 to be paid out of Line Item 10-640-101 in the Environmental 12 Health budget, and it would be for the amount of $151.40. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to 16 approve a late bill and authorize hand check to Stuart 17 Barron in the amount of $151.40. Any further questions or 18 discussion? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is this paid in full, 20 total? Just -- 21 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir, I believe so. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions? All in 23 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 11-11-03 103 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. I have -- 3 excuse me. 4 MS. WILLIAMS: I'm sorry, Judge, I have one 5 other that I just got from Miguel. He has someone who needs 6 to attend a training facility on December the 2nd. They 7 need the registration 20 days in advance, and I'm asking if 8 we can go ahead and get approval for a hand check as a late 9 bill today. The amount due is $400, and it is for Patricia 10 Hulett to attend an On-Site Sewage Facilities training. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move to approve. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to 14 approve a late bill -- or expenditure in the amount of $400, 15 and to authorize hand check in the amount of $400 to 16 Patricia Hulett. 17 MS. WILLIAMS: Okay -- 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Any question or discussion? 19 MS. WILLIAMS: I'm sorry. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. Let's just 21 peek at that right quick, and just for fun, to make sure 22 that I'm on the right page. Where is that in our budget? 23 MS. WILLIAMS: It would be covered under 24 Conferences in the budget amendment that was presented 25 earlier. I think it was 1.8 on the agenda for the 11-11-03 104 1 Environmental Health Department. There should be, like, 2 $2,900 or whatever amount y'all had worked up a while ago 3 under that Conference line item. That would cover 4 conferences and training. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And we have how much 6 in the Conference line? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: $2,950 -- Mr. Tomlinson 8 requested $2,950. I'm not sure what -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have eleven-twelfths 10 of $2,950. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Correct. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 2,500 bucks. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: $2,500. And how much? 14 $400? 15 MS. WILLIAMS: Registration is $400. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: This will help her 17 get her ticket to be an inspector. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure. Fantastic. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: We have $2,704. Any further 20 questions or discussion? All in favor of the motion, 21 signify by raising your right hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. 11-11-03 105 1 MS. WILLIAMS: I have one question. We do 2 not have the information yet on her lodging for this period 3 of time. With the travel voucher that was adopted by the 4 Court, there is an area on there that has lodging, where you 5 can fill in the amount. Does that mean that if they go 6 ahead and get the reservations, get a confirmation, that we 7 can do a hand check for them to take with them to pay for 8 their lodging in advance? Or does it have to come back 9 before the Court before we can do a hand check or a check? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think you should 11 do it if it's within the budget, if we have money in the 12 budget. 13 MS. WILLIAMS: I know we can do a check for 14 the travel and the meals. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, we had approved 16 per diem in advance. 17 MS. WILLIAMS: Right. What about the 18 lodging? Because if we can't do a hand check, like, along 19 the same lines of travel and meals, I need to request that 20 y'all allow us to do a hand check for her to take with her. 21 Because I don't -- I don't know whether we'd have enough 22 time -- we could probably present it at the next 23 Commissioners Court meeting. 24 MR. ARREOLA: When -- 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That becomes 11-11-03 106 1 reimbursable, and they're out their money up front. 2 MR. ARREOLA: Right. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Up front, we have no 4 problem with it. 5 MS. WILLIAMS: If there's not a problem, we 6 can probably get it on the fund requirements report for the 7 next meeting, which is the 24th. She won't be leaving until 8 around the 1st or 2nd, so that won't be a problem. I just 9 wanted to touch base. I wasn't real clear how that worked 10 on the travel voucher. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: This doesn't mean we 12 would be approving in every Commissioners Court meeting 13 advance payments for lodging? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I hope not. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I hope not. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I think it should 17 be -- if it's on the travel voucher, it should be -- 18 MS. WILLIAMS: Treated the same way as we do 19 the mileage and the meals? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 21 MS. WILLIAMS: No problem. We'll take care 22 of it, then. Okay. There was one thing I did want to 23 mention earlier on the budget amendment for the 24 Environmental Health Department. The one line item in there 25 that says Inspector for the $8,640, that is Eddie North's 11-11-03 107 1 salary, and he is here for the whole year, so I didn't know 2 if y'all had adjusted that by one-twelfth also. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, it shouldn't 4 be. 5 MS. WILLIAMS: It shouldn't, no, because we 6 will need that. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Of course, it's 8 already been spent. 9 MS. WILLIAMS: Right. But if we do the 10 budget amendment and say eleven-twelfths all the way down, 11 with the exception of Capital Outlay and the permanent 12 improvement, we would take one-twelfth of that $8,640. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we -- I this the 14 court order reduced it. We'll just have to add it back in 15 towards the end of the year, and I'm sure there will be some 16 other adjustments to that budget during the year. 17 MS. WILLIAMS: Okay, great. That's all I 18 have. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Good point. Thank you very 20 much. 21 MS. WILLIAMS: You're welcome. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I have before me the 23 transcripts of the Commissioners Court meetings, the regular 24 session on Tuesday, October 14th, the -- as continued on 25 Wednesday, October 15, and the special session for Monday, 11-11-03 108 1 October the 27th, as prepared by the reporter. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that 5 we approve the transcripts as prepared by the reporter for 6 Tuesday, October 14, Wednesday October 15, and Monday, 7 October 27. Any discussion or questions? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just wanted to say 9 thank you to Kathy. You know, she does this in such a 10 timely way, and, I mean, I really enjoy sitting in front of 11 my computer reading all that. But I wanted to thank her for 12 doing that. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Amen. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Most appropriate that you 15 would do so. Oftentimes, when we have things that are 16 carried over, we can go back and kind of bring ourselves up 17 to speed where we left them hanging in midair, and be in a 18 position to come back. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I, too, appreciate 20 it, because she's always willing to give us excerpts if we 21 need them and provide them in a timely fashion. I 22 appreciate that. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Any question or discussion? 24 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 25 hand. 11-11-03 109 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I also have before me monthly 5 reports from the Sheriff, the County Clerk, the Justice of 6 the Peace, Precinct 4, and Justice of the Peace, Precinct 3. 7 Do I hear a motion to approve these reports as presented? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to 11 approve the monthly reports as presented. Any further 12 question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify 13 by raising your right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Do we have 18 any other reports that we need to have rendered this 19 morning? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just a -- just one quick 21 report. Congratulations to the Judge for getting out -- 22 getting us out of here before noon today. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Kudos. 11-11-03 110 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Great leadership. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: That merely tells me that you 3 don't have the expectation to be out before noon any more, 4 so don't be expecting it. Anything further, gentlemen? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do want to bring up 6 one issue that will be an agenda item soon, but I wanted to 7 kind of prepare our minds. It's that I think in March is 8 our conference in west Texas, and we had talked about 9 previously possibly making a bid of getting that conference 10 to come to Kerrville, and so we -- we need to start thinking 11 in that way. One of the things that's required is a court 12 order from Commissioners Court saying, yes, we want the 13 conference here and that kind of thing. And there may be -- 14 there's -- the West Texas group is a little different from 15 the South Texas group, in that they -- they may require some 16 kind of financial numbers or something. I don't know what 17 all that's about, to be honest with you, but it's coming up 18 soon. We need to -- we need to have that discussion about 19 whether we want to have -- go out and make the bid for it to 20 come here or not. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Commissioner, did -- 22 did the Commissioner from Ector County ever send you the 23 information regarding the things that they kind of like to 24 see in a bid? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes. 11-11-03 111 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: All right. 'Cause 2 they sent them to me; if you didn't have it, I was going to 3 give it to you. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Remember, we have a 5 former cook on staff. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Former cook. Probably a 8 current cook, but former -- used to be employed as a cook. 9 Miguel owned a restaurant. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Fajitas for 11 everybody. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good thought, 13 Commissioner. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Buster, does -- I 15 mean Commissioner, does a bid imply that we -- we give them 16 some remuneration for bringing it here? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I can't remember. 18 There's something, like, you have to -- yes and no. All -- 19 all -- any time that you bring them in here, you have to 20 provide something; the host court has to provide some 21 things. And we've had the South Texas bunch into Kerrville 22 three times, and one of the -- you know, there's -- 23 during -- if you remember, during the conference itself, 24 there's a whole Court Night where Kerr County provides a 25 dinner and some entertainment or whatever. Now, this is 11-11-03 112 1 where I differ a little bit from the West Texas bunch. You 2 know, they require that we have the money on the table. 3 Well, in my opinion, it's none of their business. We'll 4 provide the thing; we'll put the dinner on and we'll provide 5 some entertainment and we'll put on a show for them and that 6 kind of thing, but it's really none of their business how we 7 do that. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Do we get local 9 businesses to -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- underwrite? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir, absolutely. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're not allowed to use 14 any tax funds. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't want the Court 16 to come up and say, "We have $10,000 of taxpayers' money on 17 the table to provide for this function." I don't want to do 18 that. I will not do that. But if -- you know, in the past, 19 Mr. Shelton, Mr. Duncan, Mr. Brinkman, those guys have 20 always been really good in that arena. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They have a little 22 more extensive list than I think we've been used to seeing 23 in the past. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Was that the end of 25 it, just that one sentence? 11-11-03 113 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That was a period 2 right there. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My lord. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: We may get out of here by 5 noon, then. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm gone. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything further, gentlemen? 8 We'll stand adjourned. 9 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 11:34 a.m.) 10 - - - - - - - - - - 11 12 STATE OF TEXAS | 13 COUNTY OF KERR | 14 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 15 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 16 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 17 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 18 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 14th day of November, 19 2003. 20 21 22 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 23 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 24 Certified Shorthand Reporter 25 11-11-03