1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Special Session 10 Monday, December 22, 2003 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 DAVE NICHOLSON, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X December 22, 2003 2 PAGE --- Commissioners' Comments 4 3 1.1 Presentation by Bob Miller, Executive Director of Texas Arts and Crafts Educational Foundation 7 4 1.2 Joint Resolution authorizing execution of grant agreement for airport repairs/improvements 20 5 1.3 Establishing Airport Board as autonomous body 23 1.4 Report from Rabies and Animal Control Department 28 6 1.5 Re-elect commissioners to the Kerr County Emergency Service District No. 2 Board of Commissioners 37 7 1.13 Discuss funding of items used in employees' work areas to decrease strain placed on their bodies 39 8 1.8 Resolution authorizing designated signatories for the Texas Community Development Program contract 48 9 1.9 Privately maintained road name changes 49 1.6 PUBLIC HEARING for Alternate Plat Revisions for 10 Lots 122 and 123 of The Horizon 53 1.7 Alternate plat revisions for Lots 122 and 123 of 11 The Horizon, consider refunding OSSF fees 53 1.12 Resolution to approve a grant application to the 12 Office of the Governor, Criminal Justice Division, for Juvenile Behavioral Transition Program 55 13 1.14 Request to use courthouse for various early voting and election days in 2004 57 14 1.15 Request to allow the Credit Union to hold their annual meeting at the County Extension facility at 15 the non-profit rate 59 1.16 Appoint Kerr County Sheriff Rusty Hierholzer to 16 AACOG Criminal Justice Advisory Committee 60 1.10 PUBLIC HEARING for road name changes, regulatory 17 signs, roads to be added to or removed from county maintenance 62 18 1.11 Consider road name changes, regulatory signs, and roads to be added or removed for county maintenance 62 19 1.17 Burn Ban 66 1.18 Approval of Amended Contract with TxDOT for 20 construction of Hermann Sons Bridge project 76 1.19 Approval to pay 2004 Dues to AACOG 78 21 4.1 Pay Bills 85 22 4.2 Budget Amendments 94 4.3 Late Bills -- 23 4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 96 5.1 Reports from Commissioners 98 24 1.20 Acceptance, rejection, or other appropriate 25 action on Employee Health Insurance Bids 112 --- Adjourned 163 3 1 On Monday, December 22, 2003, at 9:00 a.m., a special 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in the 3 Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville, 4 Texas, and the following proceedings were had in open court: 5 P R O C E E D I N G S 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let me call to order 7 the special Commissioners Court meeting scheduled and posted 8 for this date, Monday, December the 22nd, 2003, at 9 a.m. 9 It appears to be that time now, and at this point, I'll call 10 on Precinct 1 Commissioner Buster Baldwin. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. If you'd 12 stand and join me in a word of prayer, and then when we 13 finish, we'll do the pledge of allegiance. 14 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you very much. At this 17 time, if there's anyone here that wishes to address the 18 Court on any matter that is not on the agenda, you're 19 privileged to come forward at this time. If you want to 20 talk to the Court about a matter that is on the agenda, we 21 would ask that you fill out a participation form. They can 22 be found at the back of the room. It's not absolutely 23 required, but it helps us in planning, and it also helps me 24 in not forgetting that you had wanted to -- to talk to us 25 about an item that is on the agenda. But if there's anyone 12-22-03 4 1 that wants to talk to us about an item that is not listed on 2 the agenda, well, please feel privileged to come forward at 3 this time and let us know what's on your mind. No one's 4 making a move to the front, so I gather there is no one that 5 wishes to address us on something that's not on the agenda. 6 Mr. Baldwin, do you have anything for us this morning? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do have a couple 8 items. Happy first day of winter today. And secondly, 9 don't forget the Christmas -- the courthouse Christmas party 10 the 24th, I think that's Wednesday, at -- we'll start eating 11 at 11 a.m. in the basement of the courthouse. And I 12 understand that the meat purchase and all that's happened, 13 and -- 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That transaction is 15 taking place this day. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: God, I wish we were 17 out there. And the -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: At the butcher shop 19 or at the property? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Doesn't matter. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just somewhere. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Be a part of it. And 23 then I saw -- I got a peek at a list of the things that the 24 -- the courthouse family is participating in, and looks like 25 it's going to be a big feed, tons of beans and salads, and 12-22-03 5 1 it's going to be fun. Going to be fun. So, that's all, 2 Judge. Thank you. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Williams? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It will be a good 5 time. I don't have anything other than that, but I just -- 6 just for those who want to know, every year Commissioners 7 put together a -- this little Christmas get-together, and 8 somebody always prepares the meat dish, and in the past it's 9 happened out in the western part of Kerr County. This time 10 I have encouraged a former Commissioner, Butch Lackey, to do 11 his famous barbecuing, and he will be doing that as soon as 12 I get the briskets over to him later this afternoon. Should 13 be a fun time for all. And I just want to take this 14 opportunity to express my thanks and appreciation to all the 15 people in Kerr County, and particularly in Precinct 2, for 16 their wonderful cooperation and -- and for the privilege and 17 honor of serving them this year, and wish everybody a 18 blessed Christmas and a happy new year. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner 3? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ditto, the comments that 21 were previously said. And the only thing -- I want to jump 22 ahead to next week. I don't want us to get ahead of 23 ourselves, but I've had several discussions with employees 24 and elected officials regarding working on January 2nd. And 25 it's not an agenda item; it's not an official holiday, and 12-22-03 6 1 I've told them -- though many of them feel, or some of them, 2 that it's an unproductive day, and I tend to agree, I told 3 them that, in my opinion -- and I told them I'd bring it up 4 today, but in my opinion, it's up to the elected official. 5 If they choose to close their office, so be it. That's the 6 only comment I have. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Nicholson? 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Jennifer -- Jennifer 9 Dawn Herron was a former resident of west Kerr County. She 10 was an abused and abandoned child who was sent by the State 11 of Texas to the Hill Country Youth Ranch, and she attended 12 Ingram Tom Moore High School, and last Saturday, she 13 graduated from Baylor. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wow. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: With honors. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wow. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And we think 18 probably more than a hundred people in Kerr County helped 19 finance that education. So, it was a good day for west Kerr 20 County and for Jennifer Herron. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Golly, great story. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else, Commissioner? 24 Speaking of young people making good choices, I don't know 25 how many of you took note of the letter in the weekend 12-22-03 7 1 newspaper locally that a young teenage girl had been 2 involved in a number of fundraising activities through the 3 year, and rather than utilizing the funds -- which she was 4 not writing the letter; her father wrote it. Rather than 5 utilizing those funds for her own benefit, she chose to 6 utilize them to provide for those that she found in need 7 and -- and for whom she had a caring thought. I know that 8 young lady, and they're not people of means, but I think her 9 actions speak to the heart, and I would hope that others, 10 young and old alike, would take inspiration from that 11 attitude and be more mindful of their fellow man during the 12 Christmas season. Thank you. Anything else, gentlemen, 13 before we get into the agenda? First item on the agenda, 14 Mr. Bob Miller, Executive Director of Texas Arts and Crafts 15 Educational Foundation, wanted to make a presentation on the 16 scope of work and start date for infrastructure and other 17 improvements on the River Star Park site on County-leased 18 property. This item was placed on the agenda at the request 19 of Commissioner Williams. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Judge. I 21 did that at the request of Mr. Miller, who tells me that 22 they're about ready to start work on the infrastructure, and 23 knowing that they need to come before the Court and tell us 24 what they're going to do, we invited him to do so. Bob? 25 MR. MILLER: Morning. Morning, Judge Tinley 12-22-03 8 1 and Commissioners. The Arts and Crafts Foundation is 2 getting ready to go forward with what we call Phase I, our 3 infrastructure stage, of building the River Star Arts and 4 Events Park. And, according to our contract with you, we're 5 supposed to come to you and present our plans before we 6 start construction in order to get your approval and let you 7 know what we're going to do. I have some drawings this 8 morning; they're hot off the press from the architect. 9 They're not terribly different from what we looked at 10 before. Going to be hard to see, 'cause they're small 11 ink-line drawings, but Phase 1 initially is to grade the 12 site and prepare the drainage so that when we do events on 13 the -- on the grounds, they're not going to be subject to 14 the flooding as they have been in the last 33 years that 15 we've operated on our current site, which is -- was not 16 professionally graded. We just really kind of used it to 17 the best of our ability. 18 These are -- these rectangles are potential 19 tent sites and pads, and they're being lined up both east 20 and west for the benefit of the artists who don't like the 21 sun burning into their eyes during a show. It also works 22 real well on this property, because that's also the drainage 23 flow on the property, so the drainage will be pulled off 24 those tents and driven down between these -- we've got a -- 25 the bottom of that drainage ditch runs right through here. 12-22-03 9 1 And then we will install an underground culvert underneath 2 this interior road to move that drainage on through there to 3 the culvert there, you know. The water just builds up 4 behind it and flows over that road during the flood, so that 5 will -- that will keep that water moving on through there. 6 The biggest change in the grading will be this corner over 7 here will be raised probably 6 to 7 feet, and if you see, 8 we've been dumping dirt out there on the site at this point, 9 mainly for that. And they're going to try to get this up 10 and level it this way, and then grade it towards them. 11 We've got a site we have to protect that is 12 -- let me see; I can barely see it -- roughly like this. 13 That is the Texas historical site. We've applied to the 14 Texas Historical Commission for permission to overlay that 15 site with 6 to 12 inches of dirt, which would then allow us 16 to put small tents, tables and chairs and that sort of thing 17 on top of those grounds so we don't have to dig into it. 18 We're restricted from -- before we put the dirt in, of -- of 19 not penetrating the surface more than 6 to 8 inches. So, 20 that will give us 12, 15, 18 inches that we can kind of use 21 and insure that we're not disturbing that historical site. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Bob, you're talking 23 about the Indian mounds? 24 MR. MILLER: Yes, sir. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And at one point -- 12-22-03 10 1 and I'm not fussing at you. At one point, we had talked 2 about the possibility of putting a -- a little fence around 3 that and using part of it as an exhibit, even. Is that 4 not -- 5 MR. MILLER: Well, I imagine during the fair, 6 that we -- we normally do early Texas crafts and whatnot; 7 that we will do something -- some sort of Indian 8 demonstration there on that site and -- and let people know 9 that it is, you know, a protected site. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just thought that 11 was such a neat idea -- 12 MR. MILLER: I do too. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- that you had. 14 MR. MILLER: And it kind of tells a little 15 bit about the history of that property, which is nice. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, absolutely. 17 MR. MILLER: This -- these two tents here 18 will probably really not even be there. We're going to have 19 to shift them off. See, I talked to the tent people, and 20 thinking that we could use barrels of water to secure the 21 tents, as they do in some places, and they don't like to do 22 that at all. So, there's a -- the wind load on a tent is 23 unbelievable when a 350-pound, 55-gallon drum of water is 24 not enough to hold those tents in place, so we'll have to do 25 something else. Small exhibit or open air tents are -- are, 12-22-03 11 1 you know, very acceptable there, and would work real well. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Bob, before you get too 3 far, go back to the Indian Mound exhibit. Since the part 4 that they are -- they want us to protect is over here, and 5 the part that you can see that has been, you know, dug 6 through many times is kind of up to the, I guess, north, is 7 there a way that we could use take the old part that's been, 8 according to the Historical Commission, destroyed, but to me 9 looks a lot more like an Indian mound than the open grass 10 field that they want us to protect -- I mean, you know, that 11 way you can protect -- put the dirt over this area and -- 12 but we can put the exhibit up there where the old -- where 13 the -- you know, the digging has gone on. 14 MR. MILLER: It would possibly be easier to 15 do an exhibit on the old site, actually. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 17 MR. MILLER: Because it's in the trees and 18 everything else. They're proposing walking trails to run 19 along the edge of that hillside and then back around this -- 20 there's a little group of trees up here and throughout the 21 area, and this will be a nice thing to have along the site 22 of those walking trails. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Put a little pipe rail 24 fence around it and kind of reclaim it the way it is. But 25 it's a -- 12-22-03 12 1 MR. MILLER: Right. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, it's -- I was 3 somewhat shocked they want you to protect the area that I 4 don't see -- well, I'm not -- 5 MR. MILLER: You can't tell the Indians were 6 there, right. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The part where I can see 8 where Indians have been, they don't want protected, but 9 that's their choice. 10 MR. MILLER: In addition, after the grading 11 of the site is done, we'll install underground utilities to 12 these tent sites on this side, in order to then have on top 13 of the ground electricity to distribute to the exhibitors, 14 which will be a plug, plus we don't have to dig it up every 15 year, trench, lay electrical lines, and then put them back 16 down. We -- we're buying a modular bathroom building that 17 is A.D.A. approved that will be temporarily placed here. 18 It's in the plans; it's to be placed back here, but we need 19 one up here until we get some buildings built, so this will 20 -- they'll place it on a semipermanent basis right here 21 opposite -- 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Will that suffice for 23 the traffic of the fair this year? 24 MR. MILLER: Not for the entire traffic, but 25 for more than a third, a third and a half. 12-22-03 13 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Then you'll have 2 other modular -- 3 MR. MILLER: Yeah, you need to have bathroom 4 facilities supplied around the property so someone doesn't 5 have to walk from one far end to there. That -- the only 6 physical, on top of the ground facilities you're going to be 7 able to see when we get through are this building, and we're 8 going to move our two portable buildings in that we have at 9 Schreiner right now, and there's a place for them along the 10 side toward there on Highway 27. And we would try, if we 11 have any budget left, to build a storage shed for equipment 12 and whatnot inside of the yard. But -- and then this 13 ground, after it's graded and leveled, utilities in, then 14 we'll sod it, we'll have an underground irrigation system in 15 place in order to water it, and what we are looking for is a 16 -- a nice grass field that we'd like to maintain for use for 17 both our events and other events at that property. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Your electric 19 utilities will be underground? 20 MR. MILLER: Yes. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's part of this 22 additional phase? 23 MR. MILLER: Yes. We'll have one sewer tap 24 that will feed that modular bathroom building that will be 25 down in that lower corner -- lower right-hand corner of the 12-22-03 14 1 map. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where are you going 3 to be hooking on the city sewer? Is it going to be anywhere 4 in the close proximity of -- where? 5 MR. MILLER: Well, we were thinking of 6 putting it in somewhere between the back road on Riverside 7 and the corner, I think, site. You all are looking for 8 somewhere in here, though. You're on that -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think so, yeah. 11 MR. MILLER: The other side of this -- one of 12 our big problems is that drainage ditch; almost anything you 13 do, you have to figure out how you're going to get across 14 it. I mean, at some point we will need another tap, and I'd 15 asked you all for permission to put two taps in there 16 before. The other one will have to come up here on this 17 property line, and I can't go across the Indian place; I 18 need an easement from the next property owner in order to do 19 that. Nothing's easy. It all looks easy from a distance, 20 but it is all sorts of complications. Anyway, that's where 21 we are. We're planning on holding the fair there in May. 22 We're planning on having utilities in place and grass up and 23 roads and walking trails in place in May, and we're tickled 24 to death. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are the -- are the roads 12-22-03 15 1 made of crushed granite? 2 MR. MILLER: Crushed granite. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Crushed granite. I guess 4 the trails will be the same? 5 MR. MILLER: Yes. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: When do you 7 anticipate starting? 8 MR. MILLER: Well, kind of, in a way, we've 9 been dumping dirt there. We've been getting the donation of 10 dirt from Mike Lowe's construction company, 'cause we need a 11 lot of dirt in there to level that up and then put on that 12 -- that back side. So, we've been trying to acquire dirt 13 wherever we could. We started -- but they'll be starting 14 probably the first week in January, second week in January. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Fantastic. 16 MR. MILLER: We think it will be a great 17 project. We think it will be a nice addition to the Hill 18 Country Youth Exhibit Center, too. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My final comment on 20 the -- I think you -- it looks like you're doing it, but no 21 one knows the -- when you get over to the Youth Exhibit side 22 of that, how that property's going to look long-term, so I 23 guess, in your planning, you're planning on -- you're not 24 kind of cornering yourself in any way? 25 MR. MILLER: Well, the entrance that we will 12-22-03 16 1 use is our temporary -- everything's temporary, based upon 2 future funds, but we will -- we're setting our entrance up 3 right here, next to the yard coming in right here. And that 4 would be -- in the final analysis, when the -- the front 5 entrance is built here, according to the architects, this 6 would be a back entrance to the property. If people were 7 parking in the Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center, or you had 8 an event that was on both properties at once -- which, when 9 we talked to the Convention and Visitors Bureau, is a strong 10 possibility. That's the way they would like to promote it 11 for a lot of things, have both an outside and inside 12 component. She thinks it's -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If the rodeo arena stays 14 or leaves that current location, it won't affect the use of 15 the property from your standpoint? I mean, one way or the 16 other? 17 MR. MILLER: Not in the short term. We'd 18 love to have that. There's an office/art gallery that is 19 scheduled to be built right here. Now, if that became 20 available, of course, we'd like to move it back. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I wasn't talking about 22 giving you more land. 23 MR. MILLER: Less? Shame on you. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You kind of got into that 25 one. I think I'll be quiet at this point. 12-22-03 17 1 MR. MILLER: Well, there was talk at one time 2 about that going and whether we could use that. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, it still 4 lingers in the minds of some. 5 MR. MILLER: What makes sense to us, maybe 6 not to everybody else in the world, is we're not allowed any 7 more road cuts by TexDOT into this property. The one road 8 cut is up here coming into the property. What would really 9 be nice and complement both properties is if you moved this 10 road right on through and had an exit out the other side in 11 a straight line, and it would help you all as well as us. 12 It would help move people around for parking and everything 13 else. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess what I'm saying 15 is, try to keep the eastern side of y'all's location as 16 flexible as possible, until we know what we're doing with 17 the other piece of that property. 18 MR. MILLER: You bet. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And we just don't know 20 what's going to happen there, but something is going to 21 happen there, I think. 22 MR. MILLER: And the only thing that's going 23 to be there is that building, which is going to be set up to 24 be moved in the future anyway. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, so that works. 12-22-03 18 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Bob, you've been 2 showing that road coming out right there, looks like on 3 Main. That's going to be your -- ultimately going to be 4 where -- 5 MR. MILLER: Main entrance, yes. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Will that be an 7 entrance this year for people who -- overflow parking that 8 may take place at Flat Rock Lake Park? 9 MR. MILLER: Either there or here. This 10 would actually be a closer entrance right now to come up out 11 of the park and go -- a lot of it's going to depend on where 12 the shuttles -- the shuttles will end up dropping people off 13 from Flat Rock Lake Park or to the polo field or whatever. 14 We have rented the Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center, you 15 know, at your regular fees during the fair, and I think we'd 16 like to continue to do that in the future. To -- we're 17 going to -- we're planning on doing an R.V. show on the 18 property this year at the same time the fair's going on, and 19 we would like to see our event kind of grow and expand to be 20 greater than just the Arts and Crafts show itself. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Final comment, I'd just 23 like to thank you for all your work on it, A. And also, 24 just -- you know, I again point out to the public, and this 25 event's been brought along this whole time. This is, to me, 12-22-03 19 1 a great example of government working with quasi-private 2 business to do something that's going to benefit all the 3 taxpayers of the county. I mean, I think this is -- your 4 organization is nonprofit, but still it's a joint effort by 5 a governmental entity and a nonprofit organization, and 6 somewhat similar to what the City did with the Cailloux 7 Center, and this is the type of thing that I hope we can 8 have more and more of in Kerr County, 'cause it benefits 9 everybody. 10 MR. MILLER: Thank you. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Bob. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Miller, were you seeking 13 authorization from this Court today to proceed with the 14 infrastructure plans that you had? 15 MR. MILLER: Yes, sir. I didn't realize -- I 16 don't know how formal that process needs to be. This is 17 really our first time in -- in trying to comply with that 18 paragraph in the contract, so if that's required, yes. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll be happy to 20 offer up the motion, Judge, if that's appropriate. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Probably would be. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would move that the 23 Court grant Mr. Miller the formality of an approval so he 24 can proceed with his plans for the River Star Park. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 12-22-03 20 1 JUDGE TINLEY: I assume you're talking about 2 the -- the Phase I development plan, as that is itemized, 3 the 11 items that are on here? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: As presented to the 5 Court. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 7 approval. Any further questions or discussion of Mr. Miller 8 or otherwise? All in favor of the motion, signify by 9 raising your right hand. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Thank you 14 very much. 15 MR. MILLER: Thank you very much, gentlemen. 16 Appreciate you. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Appreciate you being here 18 today. The next item on the agenda is consideration and 19 discussion for the approval of a joint resolution 20 authorizing execution of grant agreement for airport repairs 21 and improvement at the Kerrville/Kerr County Municipal 22 Airport. 23 MR. PEARCE: Good morning, Judge and 24 Commissioners. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, sir. 12-22-03 21 1 MR. PEARCE: What you have before you today 2 is what is commonly referred to as a R.A.M.P. program grant; 3 that is, a routine airport maintenance improvement. It is a 4 state grant which is fifty-fifty in support. It was voted 5 in the airport budget for this year, so the funding is 6 available for it. What TexDOT has agreed or has supported 7 and proposed in the funding is the clearing of the area in 8 the front of Runway 30, which is for the future of a runway 9 extension when it takes place, but more importantly, for a 10 precision approach. We have obstacles that are penetrating 11 the precision approach. That will be for both GPS and an 12 ILS when we get it. Also, continuation of our fencing 13 project, which we were working under -- excuse me, under the 14 grant program last year of R.A.M.P. And then herbicide 15 which we can purchase, and instead of our nickel, it's a 16 fifty-fifty split. The total cost is $60,000. The money's 17 in the budget for $30,000 from local match and then $30,000 18 from the State. They propose, if this is signed by both 19 yourselves and the City, that it'll go to the State in 20 January, and then we should have approval to move ahead at 21 the end of January. Any questions? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: The obstacles that you're 23 speaking of, they're on the -- the east end where the new 24 road is being cut in? 25 MR. PEARCE: Yes, sir, in between the east 12-22-03 22 1 end, where the new road is being cut in, and the runway and 2 that area in there. And there's a -- a penetration, if you 3 can envision almost an axle-type area that goes into the 4 runway. There's certain provisions for heighth hazards and 5 stuff when you have a precision approach. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's all set out in 7 the Master Plan, if I'm not mistaken, isn't it? 8 MR. PEARCE: Yes, sir, it sure is. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: David, in addition to 10 the removal of the obstacles that you note on Runway 1230, 11 you also mention a continuation of security and wildlife 12 fencing and herbicide. 13 MR. PEARCE: Yes. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I thought we already 15 had funds available for that fencing. 16 MR. PEARCE: Not to complete the entire 17 fencing. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 'Cause this will 19 add -- 20 MR. PEARCE: We envision that entire fencing 21 project, by the time the entire airport is closed off with 22 electric gates and everything, will probably run in the 23 neighborhood, from start to finish, of about $500,000. We 24 have -- $330,000 have already been allocated to that last 25 year. We spent $32,000 for part of the fencing, and as we 12-22-03 23 1 get grant money, we do not want -- we do not propose to do 2 that at our nickel, but as we get grant money, we continue 3 to push and add on to it as we go all the way around the 4 airport. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, thank you. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll note that the County 7 Attorney has approved as to form, and with that said, I'll 8 make a motion to approve the resolution as presented. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second -- I'm sorry, 10 Bill, go ahead. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, go ahead. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion is made and seconded to 13 approve the resolution as presented. Any further questions 14 or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 15 raising your right hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Next item 20 on the agenda is consider and discuss and take appropriate 21 action establishing the Kerr County Airport Board as an 22 autonomous body acting on behalf of Kerr County, with 23 authority to operate, maintain, improve, equip, regulate, 24 protect, and police the Kerrville/Kerr County Airport, as 25 provided in appropriate sections of Chapter 22 of the Texas 12-22-03 24 1 Transportation Code, as specifically enumerated, and such 2 other provisions as stated, and authorize the County Judge 3 to communicate the actions to the Mayor and City Council of 4 the City of Kerrville for concurrence and appropriate 5 action. Commissioner Williams? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Judge. I 7 placed this on the agenda as a follow-up to our action two 8 weeks ago in which we rescinded our previous court order 9 which set up that governing body as advisory-only. On 10 Thursday afternoon of this past week, I and the County 11 Attorney received a memorandum which I'm passing out to the 12 Court this morning from the City -- Assistant City Attorney, 13 Ilse Bailey, in which she requests that we delay 14 consideration of that -- of this item for a few weeks, and 15 she cites her reason why under Chapter 22 of the code. But, 16 more importantly than her citation of that is her 17 representation that the City is in the process -- her office 18 is in the process of preparing what would be the basis of a 19 joint resolution for our consideration, and she cites the 20 need for any action to be taken as being a joint undertaking 21 of both the City and the County. Based on her 22 representation that that document will be forthcoming early 23 in January, which would become the basis of any future 24 discussions that the County and the City would have over the 25 governance issue, I would propose that we pull this 12-22-03 25 1 particular item today from consideration, and I would 2 reserve our rights -- or my right to come back with it at a 3 later date. But I -- I believe that Ms. Bailey is working 4 on this document, has said so to me, has said so in her 5 memorandum, and I think it would be appropriate to wait for 6 that document before we move forward. Mr. County Attorney, 7 since this document that Ms. Bailey sent was addressed to 8 both you and me, do you have any other comments you wish to 9 offer on this? 10 MR. MOTLEY: No, I don't. I think you've 11 expressed it properly. I think we should see something 12 fairly shortly on this from the City, so I think that's 13 fine. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, I will pull it 15 and I will come back with it at a later date, with hopefully 16 a joint resolution. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can we still have a 18 little conversation? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, absolutely. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What exactly -- you 21 just handed us this, so I haven't had the opportunity to 22 read it. What are -- what are the exactly the governance 23 issues? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Making an autonomous 25 board that does its own thing without coming back and forth 12-22-03 26 1 to the County and the City. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What about -- what 3 about -- let's pretend that we do that, that we do the 4 things that we -- your agenda item today sets out. The 5 members of that board -- will we start completely over and 6 appoint new members, or reappoint people? Or are we just 7 going to leave the machine that's in place moving, or how do 8 you see that? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I see that as 10 an item that we probably need to talk out. My sense of it 11 is the County has two very good representatives on there 12 now. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm not questioning 14 that. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And whether or not 16 the Court wants to proceed with them or start again is a 17 question we have to resolve. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, it's -- it's not 19 a personality thing I'm looking for here. I'm looking for 20 what is -- what does the law say? Do we start afresh and 21 reappoint? Or are we just kind of -- nod our heads and go 22 on with what's going on? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: My -- the County 24 Attorney can jump in on this if he pleases, but my reading 25 of Chapter 22 leaves that open for us to make that decision. 12-22-03 27 1 It says we set the -- we set the tone and terms of the 2 board, the number, the appointments and so forth. So -- so, 3 my reading of it is we could do whatever. We could reaffirm 4 the current appointments or we could go back to the drawing 5 board if we wished to do so. It's our decision. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the -- my take on 8 that is, I mean, the -- the current board isn't -- is 9 supposed to be autonomous right now. I mean, you know, what 10 was done had no effect, or shouldn't have had any effect, 11 even though obviously it did, the way it was run. But -- 12 so, I mean, I think -- you know, but I think Commissioner 13 Baldwin's concern is -- well, I think we need to relook at, 14 you know, appointees to make sure, 'cause it is a 15 different -- autonomous board is a different function and a 16 different commitment of the people, and make sure they want 17 to do it on their side. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure is. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 'Cause it is very 20 different than just being advisory. But I'm just -- I thank 21 you and anyone else who's been involved to get this off high 22 center. That was my intent at our last meeting, when I 23 brought it forward. We've been talking about it for close 24 to a year, and we're going to resolve it, and that makes me 25 very happy. 12-22-03 28 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the whole 2 purpose, to get it off high center. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: I think how the board is 4 structured, how the appointments are made, when they're 5 made, by whom they're made, that would all be the subject of 6 whatever that joint agreement or resolution would be. You 7 can be as specific or general as you want to be. It's just 8 a matter of whatever the two -- the two local government 9 entities come up with. I think that's going to be it. 10 Anybody else got anything in connection with this particular 11 item? If not, we'll move on to the next item on the agenda, 12 consideration and discussion of a report from the Rabies and 13 Animal Control Department. Commissioner Nicholson, you 14 asked that this item be placed on the agenda. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes, I did, and for 16 reasons that I think it's good that this Court hear what's 17 going on at the Rabies and Animal Control. They're 18 typically a pretty quiet operation. They operate 19 effectively and efficiently, and I think it's appropriate 20 that we give Marc Allen the opportunity to tell us what's 21 going on out there and what our plans are for it. So, Marc? 22 MR. ALLEN: We try to have no problems out 23 there. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just don't kill any cats. 25 MR. ALLEN: I'm going to start with numbers 12-22-03 29 1 from last year, October 1st, 2002, to September 30th, 2003. 2 Animals brought in from the city of Kerrville, that was 821 3 dogs and cats. Bites from the city of Kerrville, we had 44 4 animal bites. Animals from Kerr County, there were 775. 5 Bites from Kerr County, there was 35. Animals brought in 6 from city of Ingram, 117. Bites from city of Ingram, there 7 was 4. Animals brought in by citizens, there was 1,595. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: How many? 9 MR. ALLEN: 1,595. So, that's a total of 10 3,391 animals that came through the shelter. We adopted out 11 232. 430 were reclaimed, and we euthanized 2,176. We ran 12 3,696 calls. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How many? 14 MR. ALLEN: 3,696. 1,796 were domestic 15 animals, dogs and cats. 396 were dead animal calls. 516 16 were wild animal calls; that's raccoons, deer, possums. We 17 did 105 injured animal calls, 35 livestock calls, 44 law 18 enforcement assists, and other calls, which are just 19 checking on the welfare; there was 390 of those -- or 414. 20 There was 390 "unable to locate," so that's when we go out 21 and we're looking and we just don't find it. So -- 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Marc? The -- the 23 300 -- the 3,000-plus calls that you made, can you break 24 that down City/County? 25 MR. ALLEN: Not this year, but we will be 12-22-03 30 1 able to do it next year. We've got it already started; we 2 started October 1st. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 4 MR. ALLEN: So, when we get ready to 5 negotiate our new contract with the City, we'll be able to 6 say exactly how many dogs came from the city, how many came 7 from the county, and how many calls we ran in the city, you 8 know, vice-versa. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just thought today 10 would be a perfect time to start that negotiation. 11 MR. ALLEN: Well, I mean, we've got it in the 12 works. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 14 MR. ALLEN: It takes a lot of -- just a lot 15 of looking and going through paperwork to separate them. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Marc, what was the number 17 of total adopted animals? 18 MR. ALLEN: Last year, 232. And that -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Does that include those 20 sent to the Humane Society and Freeman-Fritts and the 21 other -- 22 MR. ALLEN: Yes. Yeah, we count that as an 23 adoption, because they're really no-kill shelters. You got 24 the S.P.C.A. in Fredericksburg; they do a wonderful job. I 25 think they do more than any of us in the whole area. And 12-22-03 31 1 then H.S.K and Freeman-Fritz isn't doing a whole lot, but 2 they do some. So -- but that's all counted. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Marc, talk a little 4 bit about the steps you take to place a desirable animal. 5 MR. ALLEN: Well, if it's a good animal, we 6 have breed rescues. If it's a pure-bred or looks like a 7 pure-bred -- it doesn't have to be a pure-bred, but it can 8 look like one. If the animal's in good health, we call them 9 breed rescues. We take them to any of the animal shelters, 10 or Kinky Friedman has a rescue ranch. We go way out of our 11 way to get rid of the ones that are adoptable. I mean, we 12 can only hold them so long at the shelter. I mean, every 13 now and then we'll have one that we just -- we want to keep. 14 We don't want to give it to somebody else; we want to be the 15 ones to say that we adopted it. So -- 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, if it's an 17 adoptable animal, you waive that 48-hour rule? 18 MR. ALLEN: Oh, yeah. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You keep it until 20 you're able to place them? 21 MR. ALLEN: The only time we even do that is 22 when we're just way overbooked, and we're getting rid of the 23 animals that aren't as adoptable. I mean, we don't adopt 24 out Pit Bulls. I mean, people don't like to hear that, but 25 we're not going to adopt out Pit Bulls; they're very 12-22-03 32 1 aggressive. There's been numerous attacks in the news 2 lately, people getting killed. You know, and that's a 3 liability to us. If we adopt it out and we know it's a Pit 4 Bull, you know, and it kills somebody down the road, we knew 5 it, so we would just -- we're not going to do it. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: As a -- if somebody has a 7 pet that they want, will you try to keep your eye out for 8 that, if people -- 9 MR. ALLEN: We have a wish list. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Wish list-type thing. 11 It's a great service, which I was a benefit -- I guess a 12 benefactor of that service. 13 MR. ALLEN: Yeah, we saved you one. So we 14 try really hard to adopt them. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's a -- 16 MR. ALLEN: And we have a really good working 17 relationship with H.S.K. -- you know, all the adoption 18 shelters, and even some in San Antonio. They'll give us a 19 call now and then, so -- or we call them. So, it works out 20 really good. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's a great 22 service to the community, something that's necessary, 23 obviously, to get rid of a lot of feral animals. But I 24 think the -- my experience with your staff has been 25 phenomenal, that y'all go above and beyond helping any way 12-22-03 33 1 you can to -- to everybody. 2 MR. ALLEN: Well, that's not our priority, 3 either. Our priority is still out on the street, making 4 sure the streets are free of stray animals, you know. And 5 we still do a really good job of adopting. So -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I tell you, Jon, one 7 of the most painful moments of my life was to drive up out 8 there and see my little girl being held in jail. And she's 9 just -- she's only two years old, and she's locked up. God, 10 it hurt me. 11 MR. ALLEN: She's a really sweet dog, and 12 she's real easy to catch too. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I know. She'll 14 get in the truck with you. 15 MR. ALLEN: Just open the door and she'll 16 jump right in. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: I appreciate the extra effort 18 that you've gone to this year to try and get these extra 19 numbers. I realize it's -- it's an extra burden on you and 20 your staff to put these numbers together, but I -- I think, 21 as Commissioner Baldwin was mentioning, I think it's going 22 to become relevant and material to try to renegotiate this 23 contract with the City, because we need to know which of 24 those services are being utilized and for whose benefit 25 they're being utilized. 12-22-03 34 1 MR. ALLEN: Right. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: And I think that will be very 3 helpful. I appreciate you. 4 MR. ALLEN: We'll be able to get down to the 5 exact numbers for them now, what's going on in the city, 6 what's going on in the county. So -- 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: One process I think 8 that may be misunderstood by people in the community is what 9 happens if your -- if your pet gets picked up? If Marc 10 picks up my terrier, that terrier's not going to be 11 destroyed in 48 hours or any other time, because it's 12 registered, has a tag on it. I'm going to get a phone call, 13 or that terrier is going to get a free ride home. So, if 14 everybody will register their -- their animals and put a tag 15 on them, there's -- there's no likelihood that that pet's 16 ever going to be destroyed by -- by our facility. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a really good 18 point. And I think some of the complaints the Court has had 19 in the past have to deal with that, which, you know, pet 20 owners come in and they're all emotional about the fact that 21 we took a pet and perhaps even that pet got destroyed 22 ultimately, after 48 hours or whatever, but the basic 23 reality of it is, it was their fault to begin with, 'cause 24 the dog or cat wasn't registered appropriately to start 25 with. 12-22-03 35 1 MR. ALLEN: It had no identification. It's 2 still -- about 90 percent of the animals that come in there, 3 there's no identification on them, no tags. You know, half 4 of them don't have collars. But my registration tags will 5 be in -- maybe even today. I called Friday, and we're just 6 about ready. I got my envelopes all printed up; I can hand 7 them out now. I'm -- I mean, we're ready to blow and go by 8 -- by January 1st, I'm hoping. So I can hand them out; I've 9 got them. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll take mine right now. 11 MR. ALLEN: So -- and we're just about 12 ready -- I want to say one thing. Two weeks ago, I won a 13 really big case in Precinct 2, where the judge -- he put out 14 more than $4,000 in fines, so I was real happy. In 12 15 years, I've never got $4,000 in fines, so -- but it was all 16 deferred as long as they got rid of the dogs. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let's hear it for 18 J.P. 2. 19 MR. ALLEN: Yeah, it was great. And our -- 20 our problem we had out on West Creek Road, I believe this 21 lady has gotten rid of most of her dogs. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's good, 'cause 23 my phone hasn't been ringing -- 24 MR. ALLEN: Mine hasn't either. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- quite as much 12-22-03 36 1 lately. 2 MR. ALLEN: Sometimes when we put the 3 pressure on, it works. Sometimes it doesn't. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thank you, Marc. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you very much. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait just one second; 7 I want to say one more thing. You know, the -- the age-old 8 war over euthanization, et cetera, and -- and the size of 9 our facility and 48 hours and all that, that debate, and -- 10 and there's some public that feels like that we need a 11 larger facility, and we've just recently gotten an ugly 12 letter from somebody -- I can't remember who it was -- 13 wanting us to -- what's wrong with us, that we don't go out 14 there and build a larger facility? And I agree; I think we 15 probably need a larger facility. However, I also believe 16 that the way you do that is what Commissioner Letz was just 17 talking about a few moments ago, the partnership between the 18 private sector and the government. So, if you have any 19 friends or neighbors out in Riverhill, Bill, that feels like 20 we need a larger facility -- 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just tell me the 22 amount and we'll just -- you know, your wish will be my 23 command. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or you could do it on 25 your own. We'd be happy to have your money as well. 12-22-03 37 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure. Thank you. 2 I'll put it in your back yard. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thanks, Marc. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Allen. We 5 appreciate it. Next item is consider, discuss, and re-elect 6 Commissioners to the Kerr County Emergency Service District 7 Number 2 Board of Commissioners, to be effective January 1, 8 2004, and set their appointment terms in accordance with the 9 following: Bruce Oehler and Wes Patton for one-year terms, 10 F.C. "Corky" Henson, John Gibbens and Cleo Meadow for 11 two-year terms. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: A month ago, we 13 appointed these five people as the Board of Commissioners 14 for this new emergency services district, and as required by 15 law, on January 1 we need to reappoint them and -- and 16 describe their terms of service. They've held the first 17 meeting, and they made this recommendation on terms of 18 service. And I -- I move that -- that we reelect 19 Commissioners to Kerr County Emergency Service District 20 Number 2 Board of Commissioners, effective January 1, 2004, 21 and set the appointment terms as follows: Bruce Oehler, one 22 year; Wes Patton, one year; F.C. Henson, two years; John 23 Gibbens, two years; and Cleo Meadow, two years. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 12-22-03 38 1 approval of the agenda item. Any question or discussion? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, we -- we're not 3 adopting this particular document right here? We're going 4 to scratch through the second "Wesley Patton"? 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes, sir. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And John Gibbens is 7 the name that goes in there? 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I expected you'd 9 probably point that out. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, it was Wes 11 Patton and Wesley Patton. I thought maybe it was a 12 father-son team, which I know it's not, but -- 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or 16 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 17 your right hand. 18 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Let's move 22 on to Item 8, consideration of a resolution authorizing 23 designated signators for the Texas Community Development 24 Program contract. Well, I don't see Ms. Hardin. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Everybody's looking 12-22-03 39 1 at everybody and nobody's moving. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you have anything on 3 this -- on this particular item, Mr. Johnston? 4 MR. JOHNSTON: No, sir. Truby said she was 5 going to be here, and she didn't give me her backup. Maybe 6 I need to call her. 7 MS. SOVIL: Sir, isn't that the remainder of 8 the money on FEMA moneys? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, mm-hmm. 10 MS. SOVIL: It's a cleanup for the FEMA 11 moneys. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why don't we skip it and 14 come back? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Let's move on to -- do 16 we have an Auditor with us? No, we don't. Let's move on to 17 Item 13, if we might. Consider, discuss, and approve 18 funding the following items for the ability to organize 19 individual employees' work area and decrease strain placed 20 on their bodies. And the items listed are seven chairs, 21 five adjustable keyboard holders, eight wireless keyboards 22 with wireless mouse, -- or should that be mice? -- one mouse 23 palm rest, four gel pad wrist supporters, one typewriter, 24 two printers, one desk. County Clerk. 25 MS. PIEPER: Gentlemen, after the safety film 12-22-03 40 1 that all the County employees were required to watch -- I 2 didn't watch it; my son had a doctor's appointment that day. 3 However, my employees hit me with a list of things that they 4 feel they need. Considering it's not in my budget, the only 5 thing I can do is come to y'all. This is the items that 6 they feel that they need that is going to keep the strain 7 placed on their bodies. They said according to that -- the 8 film, that the -- their workstation could -- should conform 9 to them, and not them conform to their workstation. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How about the 11 workload? Same? 12 MS. PIEPER: Workload increases continuously; 13 there's no way around that. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Pieper, have you -- with 15 respect to these various items, have you taken a look at 16 each one of these requests and found them to be essentially 17 appropriate? 18 MS. PIEPER: Yes, I have. Each -- each one 19 of them -- each of the employees that have voiced this to me 20 has stated good reasons. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't -- I mean, I 22 don't have a problem at all with pursuing this, but it has 23 to be within the confines of the budget. And, I mean, some 24 of these items, if you had money in your Office Supplies or 25 some of those kind of generic-type categories, I won't have 12-22-03 41 1 any problem purchasing them if you think they're necessary. 2 And I'm talking about the wrist supporters and the mouse 3 palm rests and the -- 4 MS. PIEPER: I do -- I do not have the money 5 in the budget. This was not a budgeted item. So, just to 6 figure out if it was approved, how much it would cost, I 7 have researched between Office Max and Office Depot, and the 8 second page of this shows the -- the amounts. So, the total 9 that I feel that would purchase all of this is $1,897. You 10 know, that's not getting the most expensive thing; that's 11 just getting the items that -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What I'm saying is that I 13 think it needs to be handled in next year's budget, the 14 larger items. But I think some of these items, under Office 15 Supplies -- you know, I would think there's probably $100 or 16 so that you can at least start on some of these items, or 17 $200 that we can find out of your Office Supplies budget, 18 because I think that we need to -- and I appreciate your 19 employees and you bringing it forward, but I think it has to 20 be handled within the budget. I don't think we have the 21 funds available in contingency funds this year to purchase 22 chairs, printers, typewriters, things of that nature. And I 23 think that your department is probably one of about half a 24 dozen that have the -- you know, the same issues. And I 25 think they're legitimate issues; I think we need to fund it, 12-22-03 42 1 but we need to do it during the budget process. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: I would make -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That was it. But 4 anything that you can -- you know, or are able to get during 5 the year out of your current office supply budget or 6 computer supply budget, you know, please do it. But if you 7 don't, you know, I think it all has to wait until the 8 budget. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I would make the observation 10 that the amount being requested by the clerk, number one, is 11 approximately 10 percent of the incentive that I believe we 12 will receive for participating in the safety program, the 13 cash incentive that we will receive. Secondly, I think it's 14 fairly important that we address this issue from a time 15 standpoint. Now, that may be a relative question, but you 16 take these particular items that she's requesting for her 17 entire office at this time, and one routine procedure for 18 carpal tunnel, and you've chewed this up, plus a whole bunch 19 more. And that's where we're trying to go, to make these 20 employees, number one, more productive, more efficient, and 21 do so in the safest way possible, and without putting any of 22 their health at risk. And so I -- I think it's fairly 23 important that we address that. And where we find the money 24 may be another issue, but if we can't do it right now, I 25 don't want you to be discouraged, nor do I want anybody else 12-22-03 43 1 to be discouraged, 'cause I think safety is very, very 2 important. And I -- 3 MS. PIEPER: I do want to point out -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: -- I think if we exercise it 5 correctly, it'll pay off in the long run, and it will pay 6 dividends to us. 7 MS. PIEPER: One of the -- one of my concerns 8 is, I do have a deputy that her only request is a new chair; 9 that the chair she has has arms on it. She cannot fit 10 underneath the desk very well. And she said that during the 11 course when she has to sit too long, she said -- because she 12 can't sit comfortably, she said that one of her legs is 13 starting to go to sleep, so that kind of concerns me. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with 15 everything that's been said here. Of course, you know, that 16 was -- she had that same chair during the budget process; 17 should have dealt with it then, but we -- we need to deal 18 with these things. And I understand what you're saying, the 19 safety awards and all, but I -- you know, where do you -- I 20 think the -- where you do find the money is the issue. I 21 don't have any question that the safety issue -- I don't 22 think that that's the issue. I think the issue is where you 23 find the money. You have a suggestion? Or do you -- do we 24 need to put it on the agenda next time with a clear cut area 25 to get that money? 12-22-03 44 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- well, the 2 Judge mentioned the 10 percent savings would pay for it. 3 Were you referring to the 10 percent discount would pay for 4 this? Or pay for the entire County's? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: No, no. What I'm referring to 6 is the safety incentive program that we're currently 7 enrolled in, and I have made every effort to be sure that we 8 comply with every step that is required to be taken and 9 every hoop jumped through. At the end of -- at the end of 10 that road, we are due to receive a cash award of 17,5, 11 $18,000. As I recall, it's something in excess of 17, but 12 less than $18,000, and that's cash money. That does -- that 13 does not include any discount we may get on our workman's 14 compensation insurance coverage, any savings we may have 15 under our -- our stop loss amount that we have in our 16 employee health plan, or any of those others. This -- this 17 is cash money over and above, on top. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: When that will money 19 come? This budget year or next budget year? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Presumably, it will come at 21 the end of this budget year, because we just -- we just went 22 into that program. I believe in January, we voted to go 23 into the program, if I'm not mistaken. Isn't that about 24 right, Sheriff? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I mean, and the 12-22-03 45 1 reason I'm trying to say -- I mean, if the funds are going 2 to come in this budget year, even though it's later in the 3 year, I don't have a problem with using those funds. But if 4 they're coming in next budget year, it's a different 5 problem, the way we do our budget. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I wish I could make the 7 assurance they would come in this budget year, but I'm not 8 in a position to do that. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If there's a way that we 10 could use those funds to get these items, and other items 11 for all other, you know, departments, I think it's a sound 12 thing to do. But I'm like Commissioner Baldwin. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that's the 14 key; all the other departments as well, not just singling 15 out the Clerk's office and taking -- accommodating the 16 Clerk's office only. We need to find out what all we need 17 to do system-wide. If we're going to do it, do it, and if 18 we recover those dollars at the end of the line, that's 19 great. I -- I have a question, though, about -- in terms of 20 the selection of equipment, Jannett. My experience in 21 purchasing office equipment is, if you buy a $50 chair, you 22 get a $50 chair; you'll be buying another $50 chair again 23 next year. If we're going to do these things, why don't we 24 find a type of equipment that will last us significantly 25 longer than -- than an Office Max $50 chair? 12-22-03 46 1 MS. PIEPER: Well, these just happen to be on 2 sale for $50. But the ones that wanted chairs, I, you know, 3 showed them this picture, and -- you know, and it had 4 something to do with the back support that they're 5 requiring. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand the 7 intent. My point is the quality. And I question, if we're 8 going to do this, why not buy the kind of equipment that 9 will last us significantly longer than this quality would 10 last us? And if we're going to do it, why not put it 11 together for the entire system at the same time? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, my preference 13 would be to not -- to table this for today, see if we can 14 find out when the additional revenue will be coming in as a 15 -- from a refund, and also get input from all the other 16 departments. And if we -- if that money is coming this 17 year, I'll be totally in favor of spending every penny of it 18 on safety-related items and upgrades, but that's just -- 19 it's an unknown right now. I think -- but I do think it 20 needs to be done county-wide, not, you know, one department 21 and not the other. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Good observations, I believe. 23 You think it would be possible for you to coordinate with 24 other departments, Ms. Pieper, and see what their needs 25 might be? And maybe we can get -- get it through Christmas, 12-22-03 47 1 a wish list put together. 2 MS. PIEPER: Sure, no problem. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Sheriff? 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If I may suggest, isn't 5 there a member from each department that was appointed to 6 the safety committee? I know one of my members are that 7 review a lot of that stuff. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't know that there was 9 one out of each of the administrative departments here in 10 the courthouse. We wanted a representative on the safety 11 committee from each of the major departments that -- that 12 had significant safety risks; Road and Bridge, Sheriff's -- 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. I know when my 14 department viewed the videos, which we all had to view, and 15 I viewed them myself, there are a lot of upgrades that 16 technically should -- or -- or must be made for the 17 employees. And what I would suggest is kind of along the 18 lines of what Jonathan said; if we can buy some of the 19 things out of our operational supply budget right now, do 20 that, but let that committee that was appointed put together 21 a list and let that committee come back to this Court with a 22 list of what it's going to take to get the entire county in 23 compliance, and prepare for that with the next budget or the 24 incentive payback or whatever, to do -- 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Essentially, work through the 12-22-03 48 1 safety committee process? 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right, because I've got 3 a large number of employees that this does affect, 4 especially dispatchers. Greatly. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think this is 6 certainly a -- I mean, an effort that -- whether we can do 7 it during the year or we have to wait till next budget year, 8 either way, it's something that's a plus, because I think 9 dividends to the employees and to the taxpayers long-term is 10 clearly going to be there. I mean, anything we do to help 11 their safety and reduce medical costs is certainly a plus to 12 everybody. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree. 14 MS. PIEPER: Thank you. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you very much. Let's go 16 back to Item Number 8, if we might; consideration of a 17 resolution authorizing the designated signators for the 18 Texas Community Development Program Contract Number 718257, 19 and signing of the same. 20 MS. HARDIN: I apologize for not being here 21 when you called my number before. Y'all are working fast 22 this morning. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Truby, pull that mic 24 down a little bit. 25 MS. PIEPER: It's not working, sir. 12-22-03 49 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's not working? 2 Okay, put it back up. 3 (Discussion off the record.) 4 MS. HARDIN: This is a contract from O.R.C.A. 5 for -- I think it's $84,000 for the 25 percent of what FEMA 6 and NRCS did not pay for during the flood. They're asking 7 that we have this resolution showing who has the right to do 8 signatures, as when we turn it in. We're suggesting that 9 the Judge, and we will need one from the County Auditor as 10 well for all the financial documents. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 14 approval of the agenda item. Any questions or discussion? 15 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 16 hand. 17 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Next Item, 21 Number 9, consideration of privately maintained road name 22 changes in accordance with 911 guidelines. 23 MS. HARDIN: My copy doesn't have the list on 24 the front. Does y'all's? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. 12-22-03 50 1 MS. HARDIN: These are all privately named 2 roads, most of them in Precinct 4. Do you want me to just 3 go through them individually, since I don't have the list? 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I've got some 5 questions; let me look through it a little bit. The change 6 from Addox to Crazy Horse, is that change going to annoy 7 anyone that lives on that road? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Anyone else. Annoy 9 anyone else. 10 MS. HARDIN: I don't know. This was 11 presented to me by 9-1-1 as the completed -- I see where you 12 see family disagreement on it. It was named -- it was 13 already changed once. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't have any 15 other questions. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have one, and 17 it's -- I think that we're dealing with different 18 geo-regions, which makes it -- let's see -- makes it cool. 19 But I thought it was kind of interesting, the old Aime Frank 20 Real's Lake House Road -- everybody, I guess, is familiar 21 with Colinas, and then there's one -- 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Los Colinas. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Los Colinas. 24 MS. HARDIN: Los Colinas. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That, to me, is 12-22-03 51 1 getting a little bit too close for comfort. And it's 2 actually in the same area of the county almost, if you look 3 at the big picture. I'm not throwing up road blocks here, 4 but I just -- you know, we've got to be careful of this 5 stuff. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: That one caught my eye also, 7 Commissioner. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That was the only 9 question I had. 10 MS. HARDIN: It follows the guidelines. 11 Would you like to suggest that they don't name one of them? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, I didn't suggest 13 anything like that. 14 MS. HARDIN: I think both of them are private 15 driveways. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm sure they are. I 17 know they are. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it's just -- it's a 19 confusing point. I mean, when you're in an emergency, 20 saying Los Colinas versus Colinas -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. You just put 22 yourself in Rusty's car, you know, at 3 o'clock in the 23 morning, or an ambulance. Did they say Colinas or Los 24 Colinas? Or did they forget to say "Los"? You know, and 25 you're kind of heading out the same Medina Highway to do 12-22-03 52 1 these things. I know it's not -- I'm not going to ask 2 anybody to change anything. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Are the people on both 4 of those aware of the other one's name? Maybe they 5 voluntarily want to change it themselves to keep the 6 confusion down. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know. 9-1-1 8 signed off on it. 9 MS. HARDIN: I can tell you that one of them 10 just didn't like his address, and so he changed -- he named 11 his driveway for an address, but that's all I know. And I'd 12 like to point out -- I'll send the clerk the list so that 13 she doesn't have to go through all those. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move approval. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 17 approval of the agenda item. Any questions or comments? 18 Suggestions? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 19 your right hand. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. We'll now 24 recess the Commissioners Court meeting and I will open a 25 public hearing scheduled for 10 a.m. this date for the 12-22-03 53 1 alternate plat revision for Lots 122 and 123 of The Horizon 2 Subdivision. 3 (The regular Commissioners Court meeting was closed at 10:02 a.m., and a public hearing 4 was held in open court, as follows:) 5 P U B L I C H E A R I N G 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there any member of the 7 public who wishes to be heard concerning if alternate plat 8 revision for Lots 122 and 123 of The Horizon Subdivision? I 9 say again, is there any member of the public that wishes to 10 be heard at this public hearing concerning the alternate 11 plat revisions for Lots 122 and 123 of The Horizon 12 Subdivision? Being no expression of interest, I will close 13 the public hearing. 14 (The public hearing was concluded at 10:03 a.m., and the regular Commissioners Court 15 meeting was reopened.) 16 - - - - - - - - - - 17 JUDGE TINLEY: We will reconvene the 18 Commissioners Court meeting, and Item Number 7, 19 consideration and discussion of the alternate plat revisions 20 for Lots 122 and 123 of The Horizon, and consider fees being 21 refunded from O.S.S.F. for the same. 22 MR. JOHNSTON: Good morning. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Morning, Mr. Johnston. 24 MR. JOHNSTON: As far as the plats, I 25 recommend approval of the plat. I have one comment about 12-22-03 54 1 the fees, specifically about the combining lots. If you 2 have two lots, and each one is authorized to have their own 3 O.S.S.F. system on each lot, and if you combine them, they 4 can still only have one, so I don't think O.S.S.F. has any 5 reason to do any inspections or analysis of that situation. 6 Should just be automatic. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I've talked with Franklin 8 about this, and I'm -- I'm really quite amazed that no one 9 has caught this before, but I think two caught it in the 10 same week, two different developers. And, frankly, I just 11 never thought about it, but I think -- I mean, their 12 analysis is totally correct. I mean, if you can -- there's 13 no reason for O.S.S.F. even to sign off on a revised plat 14 that is going in this -- you know -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Consolidation. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That is consolidating. 17 I'm guessing the reason it wasn't done is that it makes our 18 rules longer and longer every time we try to single out a 19 certain situation, and we try to keep it as generic as 20 possible. So, we just need to put this in our rules. And, 21 you know, I have no problem with waiving that fee. I think 22 we should continue to waive it. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Were any fees paid? 25 MR. JOHNSTON: There were on this one. 12-22-03 55 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They paid. 2 MR. JOHNSTON: They paid the fee on this one. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I tried to slip them by 4 and let them -- tell them to wait for a while and it would 5 be solved, but they wanted a refund, so I support them. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move that we approve 7 alternate plat revision for lots 122 and 123 of Horizon, and 8 refund the fees for O.S.S.F. for same. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 11 approval of the agenda item. Any further questions or 12 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 13 your right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. 18 MS. PIEPER: Excuse me, Judge. Who seconded 19 that? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I did. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Williams. 22 MS. PIEPER: Thank you. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move on to Item 12, 24 discuss and consider resolution to approve a grant 25 application to the Office of the Governor, Criminal Justice 12-22-03 56 1 Division, for a Juvenile Behavior Transition Program in the 2 amount of $35,850. Mr. Tomlinson. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: This -- this application 4 actually is the renewal of a -- of a grant that we currently 5 have. It's for -- it's specifically for a program that's 6 outside of the normal scope of our -- of the daily 7 operations of -- of the facility. It does not supplant 8 any -- any funds that have already been budgeted for -- for 9 the day-to-day operations of the facility. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is this administered 11 through AACOG? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 13 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't believe -- no, I 14 don't. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I was just curious. 16 I'd move approval. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll second that. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 19 approval of the agenda item. Any further questions or 20 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 21 your right hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. 12-22-03 57 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think you when you 2 deal with these kind of things, these deals, you deal 3 straight with the Governor's Office. They -- I'm sure COG 4 would like to tap into that, but it'll never happen. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I just didn't know. 6 They do so many of them, it's hard to keep up with them. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 8 (Discussion off the record.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Next item, consider and 10 discuss a request to use the courthouse for holding early 11 voting on February 23, 2004, through March 5, 2004, and 12 primary elections March 9, 2004, for the Republican and 13 Democratic Precinct 312, 314, and 320 conventions starting 14 at 7 p.m., and early voting for the runoff April 5, 2004, 15 through April 9th, 2004, and April 13, 2004, for the runoff 16 Election Day voting, and October 18, 2004, through 17 October 29th, 2004, for early voting for the General 18 Election, and again on November the 2nd, 2004, for the 19 Election Day voting. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 23 approval of the agenda item. Any further questions or 24 discussion? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question. On the 12-22-03 58 1 precinct conventions, are there -- 2 MS. PIEPER: Yes, sir? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- are there any 4 arrangements -- or do any arrangements need to be made for 5 opening the courthouse that evening? Or -- 6 MS. PIEPER: No, sir, I'll be here at 6 a.m. 7 Those precinct conventions don't start until 7 p.m., but I 8 probably won't be out of here until at least midnight. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Lucky you. All right, 10 thank you. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Only observation I would have 12 is that the county conventions weren't included in that 13 lengthy agenda item, but I guess that will be something for 14 separate consideration? 15 MS. PIEPER: The county chairs will probably 16 come to y'all for the county convention. I feel that they 17 need to do that. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any further questions 19 or discussion on the agenda item or the motion? All in 20 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. 25 MS. PIEPER: Thank you. 12-22-03 59 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Next item is consideration and 2 discussion of a request to allow the Credit Union to hold 3 their annual meeting at the County Extension facility at the 4 nonprofit rate. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll make a motion for 6 approval. I mean, if you guys have the guts to do it, I 7 move for approval. Let's do it. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 10 approval of the agenda item. Any questions or discussion? 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: My inclination is 12 that we should be charging more and we should be looking at 13 every source of revenue we can find for use of the Ag Barn. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or 15 comments? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 16 your right hand. 17 (Commissioners Baldwin, Williams, and Letz voted in favor of the motion.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 19 (Commissioner Nicholson voted against the 20 motion.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That was a gutsy 23 move. 24 (Discussion off the record.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Next item is consider, 12-22-03 60 1 discuss, and take appropriate action on the appointment of 2 Kerr County Sheriff Rusty Hierholzer to the AACOG Criminal 3 Justice Advisory Committee to fill the unexpired term of 4 Chuck Dickerson, former Kerrville Chief of Police, that 5 expires September 30, 2005, and also the appointment of 6 Kerrville Police Department Acting Chief Lieutenant Rob 7 McCutcheon as alternate to serve in the absence of Sheriff 8 Hierholzer. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Judge. It 10 came to my attention at the last AACOG Board meeting and 11 subsequent committee discussions that that vacancy existed 12 based on Chuck Dickerson's resignation, and I contacted the 13 Sheriff, asked him if he would be so good as to volunteer 14 his services to fill that void, and he concurred that he 15 would do that. I also called Lieutenant Rob McCutcheon and 16 asked if he would serve as the alternate for Sheriff 17 Hierholzer, which is necessary, and he too concurred that he 18 would be happy to do so. So, I would offer a motion for the 19 appointment of Sheriff Hierholzer and Lieutenant Rob 20 McCutcheon as our -- as our Advisory Committee person and 21 our alternate to serve on the AACOG Criminal Justice 22 Advisory Committee. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 25 the approval of the agenda item. Any question or 12-22-03 61 1 discussion? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One other -- just 3 comment. You will have to notify the AACOG people of the 4 appointment of Sheriff Hierholzer. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: I presume that can be done by 6 letter? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, very good. Any further 9 questions or discussion on the motion or the agenda item? 10 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 11 hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. We're 16 going to take our -- our recess a bit early this morning. 17 We will reconvene at 10:30. 18 (Recess taken from 10:12 a.m. to 10:30 a.m.) 19 - - - - - - - - - - 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me reconvene the 21 Commissioners Court meeting called for this date, and having 22 reconvened, I will now recess that Commissioners Court 23 meeting, and convene and open a public hearing for road name 24 changes, regulatory signs, and roads to be added to the 25 County maintenance schedule and roads to be abandoned, 12-22-03 62 1 discontinued, and vacated from Kerr County maintenance. 2 (The regular Commissioners Court meeting was closed at 10:30 a.m., and a public hearing 3 was held in open court, as follows:) 4 P U B L I C H E A R I N G 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there any member of the 6 public who is present here today who wishes to be heard in 7 connection with this public hearing for those road name 8 changes, regulatory signs, roads to be added to county 9 maintenance, and roads to be abandoned, discontinued, and 10 vacated from county maintenance? Anyone -- any member of 11 the public wishing to be heard in connection with this 12 public hearing? 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: That being the case, and not 15 hearing anybody, I will close the public hearing. 16 (The public hearing was concluded at 10:31 a.m., and the regular Commissioners Court 17 meeting was reopened.) 18 - - - - - - - - - - 19 JUDGE TINLEY: And I will reconvene the 20 Commissioners Court meeting, and go to Item 11, 21 consideration of road name changes in accordance with 9-1-1 22 guidelines, regulatory signs, and roads to be added or 23 removed from county maintenance. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, I have -- 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Letz? 12-22-03 63 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- several comments. 2 Easiest one first, is going to Abandon, Discontinue, and 3 Vacate Kerr County Maintenance, we need to delete Louise 4 Ehler Road at this time. We need to do -- there's some more 5 legal work that needs to be done before I'm ready to proceed 6 with that one, so Louise Ehler East is not to be abandoned 7 today. Also, the -- under the Current Name section, portion 8 of Wilson Creek from Schladoer to Roane, delete that. I've 9 heard from numerous residents of that area, and the 10 preference is to go to Wilson Creek and delete Roane, 11 opposite of what we have in the public hearing, so we will 12 have a new hearing for that in January. And the other 13 one -- does anybody else have any comment? 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I do. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm thinking on my last 16 comment. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The change from 18 Country -- Country Lane, there's a typographical error 19 there. Those two roads should be Sleepy Hollow Circle and 20 Sleepy Mountain. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not Sleepy Mountain 22 Hollow? 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: "Hollow" comes out. 25 Does the geo designation stay? 12-22-03 64 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes, should be 2 Sleepy Mountain North and Sleepy Hollow Circle North. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: So, "Hollow" and "Lane" come 4 out of Sleepy Mountain, then; is that what you're telling 5 me? 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Mm-hmm. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any other comments? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll just make a note, 9 that the portion of Wilson Creek from Highway 27 to 10 Schladoer, we are going to go ahead and change that to 11 Schladoer as listed. 12 MS. HARDIN: Any other questions? Do we need 13 to read these out loud for -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably would be good, 15 considering there's been some changes, to make sure we have 16 them correct in the record. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Do I hear a motion that we 18 approve the road name changes, regulatory signs, and roads 19 to be added or removed from Kerr County maintenance as 20 follows: Road name changes, Taylor Road East to be changed 21 to Airpark Road East, portion of Wilson Creek from Highway 22 27 to Schladoer to be changed to Schladoer Road North, 23 Joelle Ranch Road West to be changed to Pigeon Roost West, 24 Country Lane North to be changed to Sleepy Hollow Circle 25 North and Sleepy Mountain North, Mountain Home Loop to be 12-22-03 65 1 changed to Creekside Trail West -- 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Creekside? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Creekridge, excuse me. Thank 4 you, Commissioner. To be changed to Creekridge Trail West. 5 Avenue C Street East to be changed to 4th Street East. 6 Regulatory signs as follows: On Beaver Road West, 30 miles 7 an hour; Tatsch Road Northwest, which is Lower Reservation 8 Road Northwest, sign of 45 miles an hour. Keagan South sign 9 to be No Dumping. Abandon, discontinue, and vacate from 10 Kerr County maintenance Stubblefield Road East, Joelle Ranch 11 Road West. Add to Kerr County maintenance 411 feet of 12 Treiber Lane West. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Are we going to have two 16 Sleepy Mountains now, except one of them's going -- 17 MS. HARDIN: Yes. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We got Sleepy 19 Mountain and Sleepy Hollow. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There's one out in 21 Kerrville South. Only difference is going to be -- 22 MS. HARDIN: I think the one in Kerrville 23 South has already been changed. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Did it get changed, or 25 is it still Sleepy Mountain? 12-22-03 66 1 MS. HARDIN: The one off Spicer? 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, it's not -- it's out 3 in Buster's area, kind of. 4 MS. HARDIN: I'll check and see, but I think 5 it's already been -- 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I believe there's a 7 Sleepy Mountain out there now. You're going to add another 8 Sleepy Mountain on the opposite end? 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: All I can tell you, 10 Sheriff, is that these are the traditional names of the 11 roads. That's what they've been named, and 9-1-1 did not 12 report any conflict with any names. 13 MS. HARDIN: These are all Country Lane; they 14 were changed once, and we're just putting them back to what 15 they were originally. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or 17 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 18 your right hand. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Next item 23 is Number 17, consider and discuss the burn ban. 24 Commissioner Letz? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, I put this on the 12-22-03 67 1 agenda. I didn't know the article was going to be -- I 2 think it was the weekend paper that had the article about 3 prescribed burning, but I put this on because we're at that 4 time of year. Prescribed burning is very important to a lot 5 of ranchers. We get in -- sort of after the first of the 6 year, we get into a season of agricultural burns, primarily 7 around here, coastal fields. And in previous years -- I 8 think two years ago, we exempted those burns under certain 9 conditions, and I'd like to see us do that again. I talked 10 with a representative of the NRCS office, and they seem to 11 concur. They -- in fact, the day I called was an ideal day 12 for prescribed burning, and they said they had several calls 13 and wanted to know if they could burn. They were told no. 14 So, I think that it's something that we need to look at. 15 The way we did it before, the way I would 16 like to see it done again, is that if -- if a rancher has a 17 prescribed burn plan on file and approved by the NRCS 18 office, that they would be able to burn based on the terms 19 of that burn plan. For those that aren't real familiar with 20 it, there's a number of conditions you set up, everything 21 from temperature, humidity, wind direction. All these are 22 estimated; you get them from the weather service. And 23 there's a chance that they're wrong, but it's the best 24 information that's available at the time. You have to make 25 certain calls to fire departments, Sheriff's Department, 12-22-03 68 1 things of that nature, and you have to have certain 2 equipment that's outlined in the plan on the premises at the 3 time of the burn. And if you do those things, basically, 4 you're free to burn when those conditions are met. So, I'd 5 just like to see us do that. 6 I talked with the -- we're talking with the 7 NRCS office, and based on their -- you know, a lot of their 8 personnel will be not in the office for a while, so I -- I'd 9 probably like to make this effective sometime in early 10 January, if the Court doesn't have any objections. And I 11 believe the -- just the exemptions that we've -- what item 12 is this? 17? The exemptions we did before, I'd like to go 13 with the same form we did it in. I think it was an attached 14 order restricting outdoor burning attached. I don't know if 15 we make this part of the burn ban, or if we replace the burn 16 ban with this new language. I'm not sure what the 17 appropriate way to do it is, but basically, we are exempting 18 firefighting training, public utility -- mining operations 19 really isn't applicable to us. Harvesting ag crops, which 20 includes burning coastal fields, and then prescribed burn 21 plans approved by the Department of Agriculture, which is 22 the NRCS office. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Isn't this the same 24 burn ban order that we approved? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes. 12-22-03 69 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, it's -- 2 MS. SOVIL: This is the one we approved in 3 '01. You need to reapprove it and get this one in force. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What did we do two, 5 three weeks ago? 6 MS. SOVIL: You just passed a court order. 7 You didn't sign an official order. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We didn't -- yeah. This 9 will outline more definitively, and it's not an absolute 10 burn ban under these conditions. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You know, one thing, I 12 have always thought that the harvesting of agricultural 13 crops would be included in the prescribed burn. I don't 14 know why they're two separate things here. Because I've 15 been wrong all the time? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Isn't that the same 18 thing? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Someone more 20 knowledgeable than I is coming forward. I think part of it 21 is that the agricultural crops is like -- really relates to 22 sugar cane. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Which isn't an issue for 25 us. I just want to substitute coastal fields there. 12-22-03 70 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If you were -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Not a significant crop here, 3 Commissioner. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Are you Mr. Blair? 6 MR. BLAIR: Yes, sir, Keith Blair. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 8 MR. BLAIR: If you look at the way FSEC -- 9 and sometimes I forget what that actually means, but the way 10 they describe agricultural burns is really related to 11 burning away stubble, burning sugar cane, things like that, 12 so I'm not even sure that coastal fields would -- I would 13 personally put that in prescribed burnings. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Me too. 15 MR. BLAIR: As a similar issue like that. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Either way. 17 MR. BLAIR: So, anyway -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 19 MR. BLAIR: I don't know. I'm glad to see 20 that -- that that's maybe what you're going to do. All I 21 was going to say is, you know, it is dry. But it's a -- 22 it's a different dry than what I've seen in the past seven 23 or eight years, because our -- the live moisture in the 24 cedar is still high. Literally, the burns that we've 25 actually gotten done in Kerr County have done very little 12-22-03 71 1 good on cedar. However, our down, dead, woody fuels are 2 extremely dry. And the only caution I have is -- is we've 3 spent up to four days after we've burned mopping up those 4 areas, and you have to do that with the winds we're having, 5 which are -- I've been in this area for about seven years, 6 and I haven't seen it blow like this, and it's been very 7 strange. So, my only caution to that is -- and that's part 8 of prescribed burning; that's what we train people on how to 9 do that, is that you don't just walk away. You have to 10 stick with it. I mean, the days -- the Tuesdays -- it seems 11 like every Tuesday the wind is blowing. Guess where we are. 12 We're on burns that we did two and three days before that, 13 'cause you have to do that. But hopefully that's -- you 14 know, that's part of the prescribed burning, and they know 15 that. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Does a prescribed 17 burn make it mandatory that the appropriate volunteer fire 18 department or other fire department is notified prior to the 19 burn beginning? 20 MR. BLAIR: Not necessarily. Now, 21 historically, when we get prescribed burns, we have to 22 contact every single volunteer fire department and -- 23 whether it's city or whatever it was. But, for the most 24 part now, by contacting the Sheriff's Office, that 25 information gets dispatched to all those fire departments, 12-22-03 72 1 and it makes it much easier, I think, for everybody. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, the bottom line 3 is, they're notified. 4 MR. BLAIR: Sure, yes. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Supposed to be 6 notified. 7 MR. BLAIR: Yes. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One thing I might add on 9 that, because of, I mean, the nature of any county, there 10 are portions of Kerr County that are very close to Kendall 11 County, portions that are very close to Kimble County. And, 12 you -- you know, I'd encourage anyone that does a prescribed 13 burn to call the neighboring county sheriff, not just Kerr 14 County Sheriff's Department, because frequently, you know, 15 from a distance it's hard to tell where that fire is, and 16 you could cause a lot of problems if you don't let the 17 neighboring county sheriffs know as well. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: The Local Government Code 19 seems to, by its very language, exempt from the operation of 20 a burn ban statute prescribed burns which are conducted by 21 prescribed burn managers certified under the appropriate 22 section of the Natural Resources Code, and meets the 23 standards of -- of -- and the burn meets the standards under 24 the Natural Resources Code. But it certainly wouldn't hurt 25 to bolster that, even though it is an exemption in the 12-22-03 73 1 statute. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think my -- 3 MR. BLAIR: Can I -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Go ahead. 5 MR. BLAIR: I'm very familiar with that law; 6 I'm one of the instructors for that course. There are no 7 certified burn managers in the state of Texas. There is an 8 insurance requirement that you have to have, and the only 9 entity that we can get the insurance from at this point is 10 Lloyds of London, and it's incredibly expensive. So, there 11 are no certified burn managers, and there may not be for a 12 while. We're still working on that. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 14 MR. BLAIR: It's been a very difficult road. 15 We've only got two more years, and our sunset will get that 16 law. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, in any event, I 18 think it's public education information. I'm -- you know, 19 even if it is part of the regular burn ban, I'd like to get 20 it out there because -- so the public is aware that just 21 because someone's burning, they're not violating the burn 22 ban if they're doing it under certain conditions, certain 23 reasons. And I just -- it is, I think -- you know, from 24 talking with the, you know, Soil Conservation office, 25 that -- or NRCS office, they're very aware as well, and 12-22-03 74 1 they're going to be very strict on the burn plans this year. 2 And I think if people go through, get them filed, go through 3 the paperwork, follow the burn plans, I think it will, you 4 know, make it as safe as possible with conditions we have 5 this year. And I think -- you know, but it's a risk, but 6 any time you burn is a risk. And it's -- but the risk is 7 probably, in my opinion, worth it. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If I might comment, 9 Jonathan, the one other thing that I didn't see mentioned in 10 the Government Code, if y'all adopt that same type 11 ordinance, but it was adopted in the 2001 policy, was the 12 outdoor barbecue pits and the burn barrels. Y'all had 13 adopted that as an exemption. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's in here. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's in there. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Is it in the new one? 17 And you were talking about making it effective January. I 18 don't know if you want to make a burn ban effective now, 19 'cause the one that's technically in effect right now is no 20 good; we cannot enforce it. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Where is that? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This says charcoal 23 grills. I assume -- 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But currently, from the 25 one that was voted on two weeks ago, the court order, it was 12-22-03 75 1 a 2-0 vote, and I don't believe it could be enforced on a 2 2-0 vote. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There was only three 4 commissioners -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There was only three 6 of us here. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It was a majority that 8 day. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The 2-0? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: We had a quorum, and there was 11 a majority of that quorum that -- that was present that 12 voted in favor. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: 'Cause the vote itself 14 said 2-0-0, so I -- that one wasn't even enforceable under 15 that for us. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Because -- it is, 'cause 17 that was a majority of the court at that day. 18 MS. SOVIL: You could adopt this order and 19 just replace two weeks ago. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, that's what I 21 would do. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. All right, I'll 23 try to make -- I'll make a motion that we put into effect a 24 burn ban for Kerr County and adopt, as part of that burn 25 ban, a separate order restricting outdoor burning, with the 12-22-03 76 1 exemptions as set forth therein. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to 4 enact a burn ban with the exemptions as set forth in the 5 proffered resolution. Any further questions or discussion? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Obviously, the burn 7 ban really chokes up Number 4 down there. I mean -- 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: A lot of smoke in 9 here. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Really emotional about 11 this thing. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Sorry. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Be careful we don't 14 put our barbecue out of commission before the Christmas 15 party. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, that's true. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: If there's no questions or 18 discussion, all in favor of the motion, signify by raising 19 your right hand. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. The next 24 item on the agenda is consideration and discussion of 25 approval of the amended contract to TexDOT for construction 12-22-03 77 1 of the Hermann Sons Bridge project. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I put this on the agenda. 3 It's a -- I had a hard time finding what the different -- 4 what the amendment covered versus what the other one 5 covered, but needless to say, it's just some slight changes 6 in the contract with TexDOT for the new construction of the 7 bridge. Costs are basically the same; they went up 8 slightly, but the total project cost is estimated to be 9 $1,222,850. Our portion of that is -- is we're responsible 10 for $110,500. And by the amendment and by our previous 11 court action, that dollar amount, we can do in-kind on 12 another project, and that project that's identified is Town 13 Creek Bridge -- Bridges. Town Creek Bridges. And in 14 talking with -- as another update on that, we finally have a 15 verbal commitment from all the individuals with the 16 right-of-way acquisition for the construction of the new 17 bridge, and the County Attorney's office is working with 18 myself to get signatures and payments made and deeds and all 19 that such done. And based on talking with TexDOT, they are 20 almost complete with their engineering, and their plan is to 21 let that contract on that new bridge in June of 2004. So, 22 we're under a pretty -- you know, for the type of project, a 23 pretty short time fuse. We certainly don't want anything 24 the County does to delay it, so I would move approval of the 25 amended contract with TexDOT for the construction of Hermann 12-22-03 78 1 Sons Bridge project. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to 4 approve the agenda item. Any further questions or 5 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 6 your right hand. 7 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 9 (No response.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Next item 11 is consideration and discussion of approval to pay the 2004 12 dues to Alamo Area Council of Governments in the amount of 13 $2,619.18, it appears. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I move to approve. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 17 the approval of the agenda item. Any further question or 18 discussion? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I do have a 20 question. On the dues invoice, the first piece of paper in 21 there, I think it talks about the things that -- that we get 22 for our $2,600, and one of those, it says training 23 workshops. Does that include law enforcement? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think some of them 25 -- there may be some that are as a result of the dues, but 12-22-03 79 1 there are also some -- there's a fee structure for a lot of 2 law enforcement as well. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And I'm -- I'm going 4 somewhere with that, you're exactly right. The -- I don't 5 know what the -- I can't remember how much they charge us to 6 put on the workshops over at Rusty's place to -- to see that 7 his law enforcement people are certified, but they -- this 8 particular COG -- and we are in their cachement area, no 9 question of it -- charges us $2,600 just to be a member, and 10 then turns around and charges us again to use their 11 services, whereas we have been getting those exact same 12 services from another COG for free. That has -- they drive 13 down from the San Angelo area and see that Rusty's people 14 are certified peace officers and do all kinds of training 15 and do not charge us one penny. And I understand that AACOG 16 now has figured that out, and has stepped back in and taken 17 back over, and -- to start charging us again, and I -- I 18 don't know all the details of that. That's what I'm looking 19 for. Is that true? Is all that -- what I just said true? 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, there's a lot of 21 area -- local area law enforcement agencies that are having 22 problems with AACOG because of their charging. We have used 23 another COG. I guess, technically, we probably shouldn't, 24 but I -- we can get the same training, and in fact, it's 25 normally our own instructors doing the training, because we 12-22-03 80 1 do have a number of certified instructors, and we just send 2 in the paperwork. Well, AACOG's charging us per officer to 3 go through the training, where the other COG is not charging 4 us anything, and their guys are certified and all the rest, 5 and the training is identical. I think we're having that 6 problem, Gillespie County's had that problem, Kendall 7 County's had that problem. I've had a couple meetings with 8 the new person with AACOG that is over their law enforcement 9 stuff. We still haven't come to an agreement. And I -- I 10 agree with you, Commissioner. We shouldn't be getting 11 charged this amount of money if we're going to provide the 12 instructors and the students and the facility, the place to 13 do the training, and all we're doing is reporting it to 14 TCLEOSE. It's -- it's very frustrating that they want us to 15 start -- or not start; they've been charging us for a number 16 of years. And that's why most of law enforcement people 17 around have quit using AACOG. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a good reason 19 for you to be on the Law Enforcement Advisory Committee, so 20 you can work from the inside and change it. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, that's one of the 22 only reasons I agreed to do that, because the stack of 23 paperwork they sent me already in my name was about that 24 high, after I agreed to do that. But I think it is -- there 25 are some inequities there. I know Fredericksburg's 12-22-03 81 1 reporting theirs straight through a college, Kendall 2 County's reporting theirs through a college, and we're 3 reporting ours through -- through another COG, just to keep 4 from having to pay those enormous fees. We're all on 5 training budgets, and I couldn't afford to get my guys even 6 basically trained on what AACOG wants to charge us. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If it's an issue that 8 needs to come before that Board of Directors, Sheriff, then 9 I suggest you and I work to get there. Because I hear what 10 you're saying, I hear what the Commissioner is saying, but 11 I've never heard it out of the Gillespie County Judge; I've 12 never heard it out of the Bandera County Judge or the new 13 Kendall County Judge. So, if there's a problem, we need to 14 deal with it. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Probably the reason 16 you're not hearing it from any of the judges is the heads of 17 law enforcement agencies are pretty well handling it 18 themselves. You know, Gillespie County can just report it 19 through -- what is it? -- Austin Community College that's 20 over there. And it's no -- it's not a hard deal to just 21 say, okay, we'll just report our training through y'all. 22 Y'all report it to TCLEOSE, and it don't cost, okay? And it 23 is -- it's pretty well -- Kendall County, I understand it, 24 is just going through SAC, San Antonio College, and we use 25 Comfort. 12-22-03 82 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a point 2 well-taken. Appreciate you bringing it up here. I think we 3 need to talk to AACOG, because I think it's totally unfair 4 that services they're supposed to be providing -- I never 5 even knew we paid them dues. I think that's wrong to pay 6 them that, and then pay them to have our own instructor to 7 teach our own courses. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I happen to know the 9 Criminal Justice directors at the COG in San Angelo, and 10 when they come into town, they, you know, contact -- 11 telephone call or say hello or something, and they're here 12 all the time. They drive from San Angelo, hand-deliver all 13 those things that he needs for training. They drive, and 14 they don't charge us a penny. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's interesting. 16 Their jurisdiction even -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Very interesting. 18 It's -- you know, and they're not gaining anything from this 19 deal at all. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Their jurisdiction's 21 what, as far as Kimble -- 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: County, probably. 23 Yeah, and our own COG not only charges an annual fee that we 24 get training workshops for, but then we pay extra for -- 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's -- let's find 12-22-03 83 1 out about that. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The problem we also had 3 is, I suggested to them, this being kind of a central area 4 for these rural counties, that we could very easily have 5 this as a training site for a whole lot of the law 6 enforcement stuff and get people from Fredericksburg and 7 Boerne and Bandera and all those; it's a lot closer area. 8 And they finally agreed that that would be fine; they 9 wouldn't charge our people for going through that, but they 10 would charge all the other counties that we invited, so 11 you're not going to get them to attend. Why should they? 12 And it's not fair. So, yes, there's a lot of things I'll 13 discuss with AACOG. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: F.Y.I., the dues 17 structure hasn't changed; it's the same as it has been for 18 the last two or three years. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or 20 comments on the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify 21 by raising your right hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. The next 12-22-03 84 1 item on the agenda is a timed item at 1:30, so we'll 2 necessarily have to defer action on that until that time. 3 Which brings us to the -- do we have any items that we might 4 have a need to go into executive or closed session about, 5 Mr. County Attorney? 6 MR. MOTLEY: Not that I'm aware of, Your 7 Honor. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Any member of the 9 Court have any items that they feel it's necessary that we 10 go into Executive Session about? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not that I'm aware of, 12 Your Honor, oh Great One. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There is -- Your Honor, 14 there is one that I have that I hadn't -- I meant to ask 15 Mr. Motley about. I don't know if you want to just discuss 16 it for information in executive session at this time, or 17 wait till next time. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, it's your call. If it 19 falls under one of those items, why -- 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It definitely falls in 21 one of those items, and I think the Court needs to be aware 22 of it. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Well -- 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Take about five seconds. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Would it be appropriate 12-22-03 85 1 for us to do -- to go do the bills first, and have the 2 amendments? That way the Auditor can be done, so people 3 aren't coming in and out so much. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I would agree with 5 that. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good idea. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Then he can do the 8 report. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Section IV of the 10 agenda, payment of the bills. Mr. Auditor? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have a comment and 12 two or three questions. On Commissioners Court -- and I 13 requested this during the budget process, but somehow we 14 didn't feel like that it was that important, but I -- I 15 still think it's an important thing to do. The 16 Commissioners Court Conference line, I still would like to 17 see each one of us broke out individually; divide the money 18 up four ways, and somehow put it under each individual 19 Commissioner, as opposed to lumping it all under everybody, 20 so I -- I can keep -- keep -- personally keep an eye on how 21 much I spend and see where I'm at in my spending, et cetera. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: You're suggesting a 23 sub-account? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Under those expenses? 12-22-03 86 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Those appropriate expense line 3 items? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 5 MR. TOMLINSON: We can keep it up outside the 6 system, if that's acceptable. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Page 2, 434, 8 the jury. I know this is really a stupid question, but I -- 9 I can't -- I don't know the answer to my question, so I'm 10 asking you. Are we paying someone to translate language in 11 order for someone to serve on a jury? 12 MR. TOMLINSON: No, this is for -- not for 13 the jury, but this is probably to facilitate the court in 14 general. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: To understand the 16 proceedings. 17 MR. TOMLINSON: Interpreting for the person 18 that's -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You know, that -- huh? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Technically, to 21 facilitate so they understand the proceedings, is what I've 22 always been given to believe. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: Right. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So -- 25 MR. TOMLINSON: It's for the purpose of the 12-22-03 87 1 jury understanding, too. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We don't have a jury 4 member that we're having to translate to so they can 5 serve -- 6 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- Kerr County public? 8 MR. TOMLINSON: If you have -- if you have a 9 witness that -- that speaks in a different language, then 10 there has to be an interpreter for the jury. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Page 4. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not done with that. 13 Does -- it doesn't make sense to me why that would come out 14 of the jury fund, then. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't know why it 17 didn't come out of the court costs. I mean, it's a cost of 18 the trial to have a translator, not a cost of the jury. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, if it's -- if it's for 20 an indigent defendant, then that -- we pay for it. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not -- I'm sure we 22 pay for it. I'm questioning the funding coming out of -- I 23 don't see why it comes out of the jury fund. To me, it 24 should come out of the -- 25 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, it's not -- it's just 12-22-03 88 1 an account; it's not a fund. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I mean -- okay. It 3 doesn't make sense that it comes out of the jury account. 4 Seems to me it should come out of the 216th or 198th Court. 5 I don't see why it's -- I don't see why it's charged back to 6 the juries. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Because you have 8 jurors that -- no, no, I'm not going to go there. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Don't go there. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Anyway, it's -- it's a 11 legitimate amount. Just a matter of where it comes from, 12 but it's fine. 13 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't have any heartburn 14 about eliminating either one of them. I mean, I can 15 consolidate a lot of things if you want me to. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Really? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just -- just move on. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Page 4, under the 19 County Attorney. Three-quarters of the way down, Kerr 20 County Collections for $150, reimbursement for machine 21 repairs. I just can't make all those things fit in my mind. 22 County Attorney, Kerr County Collections, machine repair. 23 Those things don't fit for me. 24 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, apparently, the County 25 Attorney paid for some repairs out of his Hot Check fund, 12-22-03 89 1 and we're reimbursing that fund for that. It's a County 2 expense. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, this -- your Hot 4 Check fund doesn't have anything to do with Mr. Alford and 5 his crowd down there, does it? 6 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, thank you. Page 8 7, three-quarters of the way down, D.P.S. License and 9 Weights, reimbursement for a tool chest. Can you explain 10 that one? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: To keep the handcuffs 12 in. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It may be. Is 14 10-581-330, is that -- 15 MR. TOMLINSON: That is Operating Expense 16 line item. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Operating Expense, 18 okay. By it landing here, that means that you think it's 19 okay? 20 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, we did budget for 21 some -- for some expenses for him. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Commissioner Baldwin 24 had a slow weekend, had a lot of time on his hands. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I did at halftime from 12-22-03 90 1 the Cowboys. That's it. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: That's all you have? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's all I have. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you have any? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, sir, not -- 6 nothing. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Any of y'all? 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes, sir. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Under -- back to 11 Page 1, Commissioners Court. What -- what's the nature of 12 the Caldwell case? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: That is -- that was a case 14 that was a class action lawsuit that challenged the 15 collection of a certain court cost by county courts at law, 16 and we were one of multiple defendants in the case. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thank you. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: And paid a pro rata share to a 19 law firm that handled it statewide. 20 MR. TOMLINSON: We did prevail, by the way. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We did? Good. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: We kept the money. Any other 23 questions? Let's go to Page 12. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Want to approve these? 25 Oh, I'm sorry. Page 12? 12-22-03 91 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not yet. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: We've got separate West Law 3 charges, not the one to the County Attorney, but the other 4 one, generally. I assume that's on the equipment up in 5 the -- up in the Law Library? Page 12. 6 MR. TOMLINSON: I'm -- which one are you 7 talking about? The first -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: No, the second West Law -- the 9 first West Law charges. $1,068.80. 10 MR. TOMLINSON: I'm not sure what that is. I 11 have to look at the bill. 12 (Discussion off the record.) 13 MR. TOMLINSON: Part of it's monthly charges, 14 $80 is, and then there's a -- the monthly charge for the 15 West Law Texas Practice Guide. And -- 16 JUDGE TINLEY: How much is that? 17 MR. TOMLINSON: It's $124. And then there's 18 one for -- let's see. There's a usage charge for the West 19 Law Pro-Plus, says all Texas. That -- yeah, that's a 20 monthly charge also of $684.80. And then monthly charge for 21 West Law Analytical Library, Texas Edition, for $180. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Maybe that's something I need 23 to talk to the Law Librarian about. The reason I made 24 inquiry, Mr. Tomlinson, is because it's my understanding 25 that persons who use the West Law service, as lawyers know 12-22-03 92 1 that service, is that it is a subscription service, and 2 there are account numbers. And if I wanted to utilize that 3 service in our Law Library, I can't just turn it on and let 4 the meter run on the County's nickel, but if I want to 5 utilize it, I've got to plug in my subscription or account 6 number so that it can be charged to me. That's my 7 understanding of how that operates. The County Attorney 8 maybe could enlighten me there. They've got a separate West 9 Law account that they utilize on a daily basis. I'm -- 10 MR. MOTLEY: We use a separate account. I 11 haven't made -- I have -- I can find out the information for 12 you about how to use the equipment upstairs, but we don't 13 use it. I can tell -- tell you what Tommy was talking 14 about, the -- the Texas Practice Guide, the -- whatever, the 15 West Texas Pro Series or whatever, those are just the basic 16 Texas research for Texas cases and the federal courts that 17 support our state and U.S. Supreme Court, Texas-based law 18 school -- what am I trying to say here? Law review-type 19 articles and journals and things like that about Texas. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: You don't think that includes 21 some subscription charges -- 22 MR. MOTLEY: I don't think -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: -- to West Law specifically? 24 MR. MOTLEY: I tell you, I know I can find 25 out for the Court. I may be able to find out and report 12-22-03 93 1 back this afternoon, if the Court would like me to. I -- I 2 don't use that service upstairs and never have had an 3 occasion -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I knew you had a separate 5 account that you utilized for your day-to-day operation. 6 MR. MOTLEY: You bet. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: For research questions. Page 8 17. Tell me about that. That's -- there's only one item 9 there. 10 MR. TOMLINSON: Page 17? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: My Page 17 has six items on 13 it. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. County-sponsored 15 Activity, payable to Ann Bethel, $300.51, reimbursement for 16 microwave plumbing supplies. 17 MR. TOMLINSON: County-sponsored? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Union Church, Judge. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: That's Union Church? Okay. 20 Okay, I just didn't recognize the name. That's all I have. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to 24 approve the bills. Any further questions or discussion? 25 All in favor, signify by raising your right hand. 12-22-03 94 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. We have 5 some budget amendments, I believe, do we not, Mr. Auditor? 6 MR. TOMLINSON: I have two. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Budget Amendment Request 8 Number 1. 9 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. One is a request from 10 Justice of the Peace, Precinct 1, transfer of $197.54 into 11 Operating Equipment, transferring $97.54 from Office 12 Supplies and $100 from Machine Repairs. This is to replace 13 a -- a printer -- laser printer for their office. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to 17 approve Budget Amendment Request Number 1. Any questions or 18 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 19 your right hand. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Budget 24 Amendment Request Number 2. 25 MR. TOMLINSON: I made a change on this one. 12-22-03 95 1 Actually, it's from the Treasurer, but on the first line, 2 where it says Computer Supplies, that's supposed to be 3 Computer Software. Account number's right, but it -- the 4 request is to transfer $204.95 from Office Supplies to 5 Computer Software. It's for the purchase of a piece of 6 software to -- that facilitates the reporting of state fees 7 to the Office of the Comptroller. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's great. I move 9 for approval. But I just -- why don't we know these things 10 during the budget process? I just don't understand why we 11 don't know that. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, this -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That we report to the 14 state. I don't get it. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, the Legislature changed 16 the -- a lot of the state fines and fees that weren't 17 effective until September 1, and some of them are actually 18 effective January 1. And besides the addition of some fees, 19 there were -- there were new fees that were enacted at the 20 same time. This -- this came available, and knowing the 21 complexity of reporting fees to the state, I think it's 22 money well spent. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for approval. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 12-22-03 96 1 approval of Budget Amendment Request Number 2. Any question 2 or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 3 raising your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Do we have 8 any late bills? 9 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: I have here before me reports 11 submitted by Justice of the Peace, Precinct 2, Justice of 12 the Peace, Precinct 1, District Clerk, and Environmental 13 Health Department. Do I hear a motion to approve these 14 reports as submitted? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 18 the approval of the named reports as submitted. Any 19 question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify 20 by raising your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Okay, I 25 guess that gets us back to the executive session. The 12-22-03 97 1 Sheriff indicated that it was a matter that he had an 2 interest in. Obviously, I assume it's a litigation matter? 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Could be. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We'll need the County 5 Attorney and his assistant and the members of the Court and 6 the reporter. We'd ask that all others absent the room, 7 please. 8 (Discussion off the record.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We will go out of open 10 session for the Commissioners Court meeting, and we will go 11 into executive or closed session at 11:16. 12 (The open session was closed at 11:16 a.m., and an Executive Session was held, the 13 transcript of which is contained in a separate document.) 14 - - - - - - - - - - 15 JUDGE TINLEY: We will now reconvene in -- in 16 open session in Commissioners Court meeting. Does anyone 17 have any action to be offered in connection with matters 18 discussed in Executive Session? That being the case, it 19 would appear that since our remaining agenda item is a timed 20 item, that we're going to start at 1:30. We can go into 21 recess until that time. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd like to go back to 23 the Commissioners' comments. I failed to tell y'all about 24 one thing that I'd like to tell you about. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We're going to give -- 12-22-03 98 1 there's going to be an opportunity for that later. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How much later? No, I 3 want a time frame. 1:30? Or -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Probably about 2:30, 2:15. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why don't we do it now? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why don't we do it 7 right now? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which brings up a 9 point, Your Honor. Structuring the agenda. Why don't we 10 put these items in front of executive, and let executive be 11 the tail end? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I suppose we could. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just a request. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: There's nothing that says we 15 have to follow the agenda in the order that it's in, either. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's true. 17 Sometimes we don't do that. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: That's exactly right. That's 19 exactly right. Do you have some comments you wish to make, 20 Commissioner? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Glad you brought that 22 up. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: I see. Well, we'll just 24 permit you to do that. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you so very 12-22-03 99 1 much. You remember in March, we have the West Texas County 2 Judges and Commissioners Association meeting in Midland, 3 Texas, and it's our -- 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Fort Worth. It's 5 going to be in Midland. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, it's going -- 7 this next March we're going to Midland so we can be as smart 8 as the other Commissioners around the state and -- and get 9 our required hours that the State requires us to get. And 10 we show -- I really thought our packet would have been here 11 by now, our bid package, the things that we need to put 12 together, which includes a resolution from Commissioners 13 Court that we would like to have that meeting held in 14 Kerrville in 2005, and all the other things, the financing 15 and all that, what it would take. It'll be here just any 16 day, but I just want to remind y'all that March is coming 17 up. Now, this is what I want to suggest to us. I found 18 recently -- kind of just stumbled up on it -- a new vehicle 19 owned by Kerr County that is -- that we could all fit in, 20 and together, and save a lot of travel money. Not -- the 21 four Commissioners; I don't think there's room for the Judge 22 in there. That's just part of the gig. But I -- I'd like 23 for us to think about that, of borrowing that new vehicle 24 from Road and Bridge and getting in it and driving to 25 Midland and back. 12-22-03 100 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Wouldn't we have to 2 take the court stenographer with us? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, Open Meetings 4 Act. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait a minute. What 6 do -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: To Midland? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're at the convention 10 together. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, we don't. No, 12 we've already established that. If it was -- this was three 13 weeks ago, it -- I would have never brought this up. But 14 the -- 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I thought you were 16 going to be talking about using the Sheriff's big 17 Expedition. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a thought. 19 That's a little bit bigger; the Judge could go then. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No way. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So I just wanted to 22 think about that. If -- if -- you know, and some guys 23 travel with family members and that kind of thing; I 24 understand that. And if everybody's doing that, that's 25 fine. But I don't, and Commissioner Letz doesn't 12-22-03 101 1 necessarily, either, so we could all just jump in and 2 save -- do one travel deal, some gas and that's it. That's 3 all. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's about it. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: I see. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You know about the new 7 vehicle? Does anybody want to bite on that? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I saw it. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I wasn't going to 10 bite on that, but do you want to tell us? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I don't know 12 much about it. It's a good-looking -- what is it, a 13 Chevrolet -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's a Chevrolet Tahoe, 15 Road and Bridge. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is it bigger than the 17 Sheriff's Expedition? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. No. It has 19 rubber mats, so it's suitable for Commissioners. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm just curious 21 about this togetherness. Are we going to bunk together, 22 too, after we get there, or what? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I can answer that. 12-22-03 102 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, are we doing the 2 other -- our other reports now? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: We can. It seems like that's 4 where we've gone. Do you have any other comments you wish 5 to make -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not at this time. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: -- Commissioner Baldwin? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not at this time. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: What about with respect to 10 your liaison or committee assignments? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not at this time. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I reserve the right to 14 do that before dark, though. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: How about you, Commissioner 16 Williams? Do you have anything you wish to report to us? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just one second, 18 Judge. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, the -- I do have 21 one item. I have exchanged an e-mail with the County 22 Attorney with respect to some thoughts that I will impart to 23 him for the restructuring of the library contract prior to 24 sending it over to the City for its review and comment, 25 period. That's it. 12-22-03 103 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Letz? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have a couple comments, 3 but first I have a question to either Commissioner Nicholson 4 or Williams. I believe there was an Airport Board meeting 5 since our last Commissioners Court meeting. Did -- how 6 did -- I was just curious as to how it went and what, kind 7 of, the pulse of the Board was after -- 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The Board itself 9 and -- and/or the Airport Manager didn't get into the 10 policies and decisions that we're talking about. They're 11 sitting back waiting to find out what's going to happen. I 12 had the Board Chair, after the meeting, ask me to bring him 13 up to date on -- on things, because all he knew what was he 14 read in the newspapers. So, I brought him up to date. I'm 15 certain our actions today will be reported, but in terms -- 16 there was no discussion. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Under 9-1-1, I 18 think it was last week, Commissioner Baldwin and I met with 19 Bill Amerine, 9-1-1 Director, and everything is somewhat on 20 schedule. They're -- the mailouts are -- the post office 21 coordination and new addressing is on schedule for January. 22 It may possibly be February, but that's going to be a call 23 by the Post Office; he's turning over all updated files to 24 them, as I understand it, and the Post Office is going to 25 send out the letters as they see fit, based on the routes. 12-22-03 104 1 There were something -- I think they were -- basically, it 2 was going to all happen at once, but there was a thought 3 that it may happen in the west part of the county before the 4 east part of the county, then the opposite way. So, they're 5 not real sure, but that's in the Post Office's hands. 6 There was a -- I guess an earlier goal to 7 have 100 percent of the county basically done by the end of 8 the year. They have moved that date internally at 9-1-1 to 9 the 1st of June. There is a -- there's more clean-up than, 10 I think, they anticipated. They're going to go through with 11 the mailout, the conversion at the Post Office is going to 12 take place, but it's not going to be quite to the level that 13 they had hoped earlier in the year, and it's mainly just 14 because there's a lot of people that have not contacted -- 15 responded to our cards that we sent out, contacted based on 16 press information. And there's, if memory serves me, around 17 35,000 people that they have not heard from, owners of 18 tracts they have not heard from, and they're a little bit up 19 in the air as to what to do with some of these, but they're 20 going to proceed. And -- you know, and they think and I 21 think that those are some duplications. And there's some 22 landowner-tenant situations that, in reality, the likelihood 23 is that -- you know, they didn't give a percentage, but 24 possibly 75, 80, maybe 90 percent of the actual people -- 25 residents of Kerr County will get their new addresses, and 12-22-03 105 1 it will all work smoothly. But there are some loose ends 2 that will take about six months to tie up. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In terms of what 4 you're talking about, I had an interesting phone call from a 5 little lady in Guadalupe Heights area, very concerned about 6 the fact that the Postal Service could not, would not, or 7 probably never would get her address straight. And she 8 cited some previous examples of how her mail is still 9 catching up with her from whatever -- a long period of time. 10 All of which is to wonder if -- in terms of the 9-1-1 and 11 public information, public education, if we can get some 12 reiteration into print of the Postal Service's intent, how 13 they handle it, and maybe kind of put this -- I only had the 14 one phone call, but, you know, it is a concern. And people 15 say, you know, if I get my address changed, I'll never get 16 my mail again, and if we can deal with that, perhaps that'll 17 be helpful. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that's a good 19 point. I think that in January, I think Bill has another 20 media -- as I recall, another media blitz right before the 21 Post Office -- or, you know, about the time he lets the Post 22 Office know. There's areas that are going to be difficult 23 based on the -- you know, just a -- the addressing and the 24 Post Office situation and route, the way they're configured 25 and all that, certain hot spots in the county that are going 12-22-03 106 1 to be more problematic than other areas of the county. And 2 it's just a -- they're going to have to work through those, 3 but it's about to be turned over to the Post Office. Now, 4 he -- as I understand it, the letter coming out from the 5 Post Office, Bill was successful in making -- if there's a 6 problem with that letter that comes from the Post Office, 7 the first call goes back to the Post Office, and they are 8 expected to -- to solve it. I mean, to look at it, not just 9 immediately forward it to 9-1-1. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Goes to the respective 11 Postmaster? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, to the Postmaster. 13 Going to go to the Postmasters, you know. It's -- I'm sure 14 there's going to be a lot of people confused, but people 15 remember also that your address is -- you'll have two 16 addresses that are -- mail will be delivered to for a year. 17 I know that in my precinct -- and it's due to the Postmaster 18 in that area being very accommodating, is he's currently 19 delivering to the current address -- I mean, the new 9-1-1 20 addresses, even though they're not supposed to be doing that 21 right now. So, if they know -- if they can find the person, 22 their view is, let's get the mail to them. And, I think 23 that's it. The Ag Barn's getting ready for a stock show, I 24 believe, coming up. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Nicholson? 12-22-03 107 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You've heard the 2 Animal Control report, so I won't elaborate on that. Just 3 following along with Commissioner Williams, after our last 4 meeting, I got to thinking about whether or not we had been 5 negligent in not reporting to you about Airport Board 6 activities, and thinking back on the four or five meetings 7 I've attended, I would describe them as status reports. 8 They're not decision-making meetings. It's usually a Power 9 Point presentation that talks about how much fuel we've sold 10 and how many T.A. hangars are ready. It's very good, but 11 it's not something I think that this Court would have a 12 whole lot of interest in. They do not talk about policy, 13 organization, and -- and the things that are on the mind of 14 the City Council and Commissioners Court. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Therein lies part of the 16 problem. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which I hope will get 18 solved in the new year. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? 20 (Commissioner Nicholson shook his head.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Williams spoke of 22 a telephone conversation. I also received a telephone call 23 from the current agent for the County's law enforcement 24 liability coverage last Friday, Mr. Jack Furman. Mr. Furman 25 was registering what I took to be a complaint. I invited 12-22-03 108 1 him to put his complaint or concerns in writing and forward 2 them to the Court here, and alternatively, I left a message 3 for him that invited him to appear before the Court today to 4 register those concerns. And I haven't seen him here today, 5 so apparently he's not availing himself to do either, so I 6 will pass along to the members of this Court what his 7 concerns were. In that telephone call of last Friday, 8 Mr. Furman stated that he was presently working on the 9 renewal coverage of our law enforcement liability insurance, 10 for which he is currently the agent of record, and in 11 working on that, he had just discovered that an RFP, a 12 Request for Proposals, had been issued earlier in the year 13 by the Court for that coverage, as well as other coverages 14 that the County had a need for, and that, pursuant to that 15 request, he discovered that the Court had procured that 16 coverage from another provider who had responded to the 17 request for the proposals. And I confirmed to Mr. Furman 18 that that, in fact, had occurred. 19 Mr. Furman stated that he did not receive 20 notice of the Request for Proposals, was not aware of it, 21 and further, in his opinion, that doing business that way 22 was not a good way for the County to do business, and that 23 doing business that way was not the way to save the County 24 money. I responded to him by advising him that the entire 25 world had notice of the Request for Proposals by virtue of 12-22-03 109 1 them being advertised as the law requires, and that the 2 Court had authorized the RFP in that manner, and that the 3 Court had not directed that any potential provider be given 4 any actual or specific notice, and that if he had a problem 5 with his lack of notice in that regard, it, I felt, was a 6 matter that he should bring to the Court's attention. And 7 if he was unwilling to do so, to not be calling me up and 8 chewing my butt out. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Was that a blunt 10 comment, Judge, or what? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, it was -- I was a little 12 bit more graphic than that, Commissioner, but what I've said 13 is probably printable. And let me address Mr. Furman's 14 concerns that that wasn't a good way to do business or that 15 that wasn't a way to save the County money. Number one, 16 Mr. Furman is currently the agent of record at this time for 17 our law enforcement liability coverage, coverage for which 18 we paid this year a premium of over $108,000. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 108. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: And it's my considered opinion 21 that he ought to know what's going on with our law 22 enforcement liability coverage this year for that reason 23 alone. I'd further point out to the Court that this call 24 was last Friday, which was just prior to the last meeting of 25 the year on this Monday, today, for coverage that expired at 12-22-03 110 1 midnight on the 31st of this month. That was a time when 2 the agenda had been finalized, it had been posted, and at 3 the time I talked with him, it would have been impossible, 4 even with an amendment, to post it for hearing for our 5 meeting this morning. Absent an emergency meeting of this 6 Court on that particular issue, this Court would have been 7 unable lawfully to take any action with respect to that 8 coverage today. 9 Now, that was not, however, the first time 10 that we've had this same difficulty on emergency meetings. 11 Most of you, I'm sure, can remember that last year, on the 12 23rd, after the meeting had already been posted, there was 13 no mention of the insurance coverage, and the Court was 14 apprized shortly before the annual Christmas party for the 15 employees that the issue of the law enforcement liability 16 coverage, which expired at midnight on the 31st, 17 approximately a week later, needed to be addressed. The 18 Court found it necessary to call an emergency meeting to be 19 held at 1 o'clock on that day, technically after a holiday 20 had begun, if I'm not mistaken, but to address that. Some 21 of you may remember the year before, when that same kind of 22 thing occurred on the 31st of December, and it was necessary 23 that there be an emergency meeting posted to consider that 24 single issue. If that's the right way to do business, I 25 don't want any part of it. 12-22-03 111 1 Now, with respect to the issue of not a way 2 to save the County money, some numbers. The law enforcement 3 coverage insurance that was written for us in the calendar 4 year 2002 by Mr. Furman's agency, the premium paid on that 5 occasion represented an increase of 36 percent over the 6 previous year. The law enforcement coverage which we 7 procured from Mr. Furman's agency in the calendar year 8 '03 -- that's this year -- we paid a premium which had 9 increased by 67 percent over the previous year. The law 10 enforcement coverage that we put in place for next year 11 under the RFP which we submitted, and which was responded to 12 by persons interested, the premium for this coming year is 13 down 12 percent from the previous year. Those are the 14 facts, gentlemen, and if what we've done is not the way to 15 save the County money, you tell me a better way. Anybody 16 else have anything further? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My only comment is to the 18 press. He said it, not me. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't think there's any 20 mistake about that. Next item, reports from elected 21 officials or department heads. Hearing none, reports from 22 boards, commissions or committees. Do we have anything from 23 the City/County joint projects? It was not included in the 24 packet; didn't see any. I don't have a Road and Bridge. 25 Maintenance, you got a report for us? It's not required; 12-22-03 112 1 just thought you may have one. 2 MR. HOLEKAMP: We're still here. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Glad to know that. Vacation 4 was fine? 5 MR. HOLEKAMP: Wonderful, thank you. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Good. That's all I have, 7 gentlemen, except for the timed item at 1:30. We'll stand 8 in recess until 1:30. 9 (Recess taken from 11:50 a.m. to 1:30 p.m.) 10 - - - - - - - - - - 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me reconvene and call to 12 order the special Commissioners Court meeting scheduled for 13 this date, Monday, December the 22nd, 2003, originally 14 called to order at 9 a.m. We went into recess shortly 15 before lunch, and it's now 1:30, and we have a timed item 16 for 1:30; that is, consideration and discussion of 17 acceptance, rejection, or other appropriate action on the 18 employee health insurance bids. We have with us today 19 Mr. Don Gray, who's a consultant from Austin, Texas, hired 20 by the Court last week to give us some assistance and 21 guidance and evaluation of the various proposals that were 22 submitted, as well as to receive revisions, changes, final 23 and best offers, as the case may be, from the various 24 offerors whose bids have been filed on a timely basis. So, 25 at this time, would I call upon Mr. Gray. 12-22-03 113 1 MR. GRAY: Got some spreadsheets to pass out. 2 I think that's five for the Commissioners Court. And are 3 you with the clerk's office? 4 MS. PIEPER: Thank you. 5 MR. GRAY: I would like to give the next 6 round, really, to some of the county officials, and then on 7 to the proposers. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Don, there's a press 9 lady back there in the corner, too. 10 MR. GRAY: Can I get you some after the 11 meeting if we need to? I've only got six -- let's see. 12 What -- 13 (Discussion off the record.) 14 MR. GRAY: Have I left anybody out? I do 15 have one more for the press. Oh, well, first, let me say 16 it's a pleasure being here. I always enjoy coming to 17 beautiful Kerr County, seeing good people. I want to 18 acknowledge my appreciation to all the proposers here. Each 19 one of them was very responsive to all my questions. 20 They're all very knowledgeable individuals about this 21 subject, and I couldn't have done the work I did without 22 their help. As you know, Judge and Commissioners, the -- 23 the proposals have changed since the last you saw them, and 24 I just want to ask anybody, I guess, are there any further 25 changes before we talk about these? Last chance. I'll take 12-22-03 114 1 that as a no. Now, you received more proposals than I 2 evaluated. I evaluated -- I focused my time solely on four 3 proposals. There were some proposals the Treasurer's office 4 told me that had been rejected for various reasons; I don't 5 even know why. Didn't even look at them. But proposals 6 that I've evaluated in terms of the medical insurance would 7 be from TAC, Greentree, Mutual of Omaha, and E.B.A. E.B.A. 8 is your incumbent, as you probably well know. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What did you just 10 say? 11 MR. GRAY: I said E.B.A. is the incumbent 12 administrator of the program. Now, three of those four had 13 life insurance quotes. Greentree Administrators, for 14 example, their quote was 26 cents per thousand, or in other 15 words, $2.60 cents a month for $10,000 of life insurance. 16 E.B.A.'s quote was at 34 cents a thousand, or $3.40 a month. 17 And TAC was at 22 and a half cents per month. There is some 18 variation in those numbers that I just read out. They're 19 not shown on your spreadsheets, but the variation's so minor 20 that, to me, the only -- I think the only way you can do 21 this is to buy the life insurance from whoever you end up 22 working with on the medical plan. We can also tell you that 23 after you make a decision today on the placement of the 24 services or coverage, there's still further work to be done. 25 Not by me, but perhaps the Treasurer, with the -- working 12-22-03 115 1 together elbow-to-elbow, the Treasurer and the Auditor's 2 office, and the Court may want to be involved. 3 But -- but after the stop loss carrier is 4 selected, for example, they'll -- you'll need to decide -- 5 you need to set the rates that are going to be charged for 6 calendar year '04, and setting those rates depends on how 7 much of the reserve funds, for example, you have on hand 8 that you might want to use to -- and how much, if any, of 9 those reserve funds you might want to use to support the 10 rates. And, you know, some clients I work with, they want 11 to make sure that the premium -- the rates that are charged 12 each month produce enough premium to equal the total annual 13 maximum liability for worst-case scenario. Other clients 14 say, no, let's back it off a little bit and be less 15 conservative and take a chance, because you may know -- you 16 may have enough money in reserves that you can afford to 17 take that chance. Now, setting the rates is something that 18 will be -- need to be done by January 1, if not sooner. Of 19 course, the first step in doing that is selecting who you're 20 doing business with. That's why I'm here today. 21 P.P.O. networks, let me also make an 22 introductory comment about those. When you evaluate P.P.O. 23 proposals -- and you can look at the price they charge; 24 that's certainly one important item. You can look at the 25 doctors and hospitals that participate in those networks. 12-22-03 116 1 You wouldn't want to do business with a network that didn't 2 have the doctors and hospitals that your people want to use. 3 But a third item that's much more difficult -- I think it's 4 the most important item, but it is tough to quantify -- is 5 what kind of discounts are these P.P.O.'s bringing to Kerr 6 County? Because if a discount -- you're doing business with 7 a business that charges, you know, $50 for a procedure, and 8 another one does it for $25, you want to give strong 9 consideration to that network. Well, we -- I have no 10 information for you on how they -- I mean, that's just -- 11 information wasn't provided. It's tough to get to begin 12 with, even if it -- even if the County included it in the 13 RFP, but that is really the engine that drives the networks, 14 is what kind of pricing discounts are they bringing to the 15 table. If you end up going with a network that covers all 16 hospitals and all doctors, you're probably not getting the 17 discounts that you could get from a network that's more 18 selective. 19 Okay. With that said, let me turn to the 20 spreadsheets. I'll tell you now that, in my mind, I have a 21 firm -- a recommendation for you to consider as to how -- 22 where you should place this coverage and who you should be 23 doing business with. I'll save that for the end. But if 24 you do change carriers -- or I say "carriers." If you do 25 change administrators, in other words, get away from E.B.A., 12-22-03 117 1 I want to keep -- want you to keep in mind that there's a 2 cost to you of leaving E.B.A., which is $12 per claim, for 3 the next -- that's to handle the runout, so we expect that 4 to run about three months. Now, before I jump down into the 5 depths of all the insurance lingo on here, I want to give 6 you the opportunity to tell me if you'd like -- if I can 7 help you by defining any of the terms, 'cause this is -- can 8 be a complicated subject, but I'm going to be using terms 9 like 12-12, 12-15. I'll be using terms like $40,000 10 specific retention, $50,000 specific retention, aggregate 11 retentions. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: As you get to each one of 13 those, Mr. Gray, it might be helpful to everyone here if you 14 were to give a brief explanation. 15 MR. GRAY: Very good. On this spreadsheet, 16 like I mentioned, there's a line on the left-hand margin, 17 fourth item from the top, called Coverage Basis, and it says 18 12-12. In most cases, there's one item that says -- in the 19 TAC column, it says 12-15. Let me tell you, you received 20 many other types of proposals that we'll talk about in a 21 little bit, but I wanted you to know that I focused on 22 these. This is the type of coverage you now have. 23 Everybody quoted one of these, so I thought it was a fair 24 basis of comparison, but in a minute we'll talk about 25 options that other proposers presented. Let me just 12-22-03 118 1 describe that term "12-12" now. This -- what we're talking 2 about here is the purchase of a stop loss insurance policy. 3 This is a policy that comes into play should expenses under 4 this medical plan get outside of what is expected. 5 The plan you have now -- the policy you have 6 now has a $40,000 deductible per person. If my claims in a 7 12-month period equal $35,000, for example, then the stop 8 loss policy is of no benefit to the County. But if my 9 claims were to go to $200,000, the County's cap -- 10 responsibility is only for that first $40,000. So, in that 11 case, it would be a tremendous benefit to the County to buy 12 this stop loss insurance. This specific deductible -- this 13 stop loss has two parts. One is the specific, one is the 14 aggregate. I've just described the specific. When we say 15 12-12, what I'm talking about is medical expense -- this 16 policy covers medical expenses that are incurred -- in other 17 words, trips to the doctor and trips to the hospital that 18 happened -- in your case, it's real simple -- in calendar 19 year 2004. So, if someone goes in the hospital today, that 20 claim isn't going to be on the policy we're talking about 21 buying, because the policy we're talking about buying, at 22 least these listed here, are for medical services rendered 23 during 2004. So, that's one hurdle you have to get over to 24 have a claim under the policy, is it has to be rendered in 25 2004. 12-22-03 119 1 The second hurdle is that, on a 12-12, the 2 second 12 stands -- first is -- stands for 12 months. 3 Second 12 stands for also 12 months, and so that means the 4 two combined is, it has to be services rendered in 2004 and 5 paid by the T.P.A. in 2004. So, looking ahead to the 6 future, looking ahead to next year, you can realize that if 7 someone goes in the hospital in December and they're in 8 there awhile, and with Christmas and everything, it may be a 9 few weeks before -- in other words, it may be past January 1 10 for that hospital bill to be delivered to the patient, and 11 for it to be paid by the T.P.A. So, that type of a hospital 12 bill would not be covered by the policy we're talking about. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't see the 14 principle behind that. What -- what insurance principle is 15 this based on, that you don't pay claims after the -- 16 MR. GRAY: The principle is simple as this, 17 and that is from the insurance company's perspective, they 18 want to be able to set a date and know what their liability 19 is so they can produce financial records, with no 20 contingencies out there. For example, they don't want to 21 cover a claim coming in three years later and have to go 22 back and adjust financial statements or profit statements. 23 So, by putting these dates on here, it's convenient for the 24 insurers, is one thing, and they know exactly when their 25 time period is up and no more claims are coming in. 12-22-03 120 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's to prevent an 2 insurer from delaying the payment of the claim beyond the 3 12-month period? 4 MR. GRAY: Well actually, in this case, 5 you're dealing with your T.P.A., who is separate from the 6 stop loss company, although often closely related. The 7 T.P.A. handles the claims. And I have -- I'm aware of 8 situations where an employer thought that the T.P.A. was 9 acting -- was dragging his feet in getting the claim because 10 of a close relationship they might have had with the 11 insurer. So, therefore, it is incumbent upon the insurance 12 company employer, particularly around Thanksgiving time, to 13 start monitoring claims, finding out what can we do here at 14 Kerr County to get that claim through in time? Or if it 15 works out to your advantage the other way, you may want to 16 delay, but it can work both ways. But you shouldn't just 17 sit back in the dark and -- you know, you should be actively 18 involved in that process. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It seems that, you know, 20 basically, if you get sick, certainly in the last week of 21 the year, you're not going to be covered, or the -- the stop 22 loss carrier isn't going to -- 23 MR. GRAY: Right. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- pick up that portion, 25 so the County's stuck with the total cost. Say, it's a -- a 12-22-03 121 1 transplant takes place on the 29th. 2 MR. GRAY: Right. Now, that's a risk you 3 run. It's a risk you've been running for six or seven 4 years. I think it may have caught you this past year, if I 5 understand all the facts. But there's one solution to it, 6 which is better than just hurrying up the T.P.A. to pay the 7 claims, and that is you can buy additional insurance. So, 8 when we talk about 12-15, we're talking about claims, 9 medical services rendered in the 12 months, 2004, but then 10 paid in 15 months starting January 1. So, that gives you 11 that buffer that you're recognizing the need for, 12 Commissioner. Obviously, there's a cost to that buffer. 13 Kerr County's elected not to buy it in the past. Now, I 14 have no idea -- I assume it's worked well for you and has 15 allowed you to establish some reserves, but I didn't have 16 the data to do that type of evaluation. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Don? 18 MR. GRAY: Yes? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There is kind of an 20 offshoot question here. I see what your function and your 21 role today is with this process, but if you were a -- if you 22 were on retainer to a county, would one of your functions be 23 to -- 24 MR. GRAY: Yes, sir. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- monitor those kind 12-22-03 122 1 of things and, Thanksgiving, start looking at all the -- 2 MR. GRAY: Right. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see what you're -- 4 that's all. Thank you. 5 MR. GRAY: Aggregate stop loss insurance. 6 Remember, we just talked about specific stop loss, which in 7 your case is the first $40,000 you're on the hook for. 8 Above that, up to a million, you're insured. Aggregate is 9 the other type of coverage under there policy you buy, and 10 what it says is that, you know, Kerr County can afford to 11 pay a $40,000 claim. You may not like it, but you're 12 setting aside the premiums to do it. But if you get more 13 than you expected at $40,000 a pop, Katie bar the door, 14 'cause those $40,000's accumulate throughout the year. And 15 so you buy what's known as aggregate stop loss insurance 16 also, and that puts a dollar cap on your responsibility for 17 those $40,000 retentions, and it's around one -- one million 18 dollars. Actually, it is 1.4, the expiring policy, but 19 you're going to get some better terms in your new policy. 20 But that puts a cap, so that that gives you then the 21 benefit, from a budgetary standpoint, to set rates that will 22 produce enough premium. You charge every month, you know, a 23 certain number of people. By the end of the year, you've 24 collected enough premiums to pay that worst-case scenario, 25 should it happen. And if the worst case didn't happen, then 12-22-03 123 1 you've got money you can set aside for the future of the 2 plan when you need funds. But, as I mentioned earlier, some 3 clients prefer to set the rates so that you're only at 90 4 percent of the worst-case scenario, thinking that we don't 5 need that extra 10 percent 'cause we're not going to have 6 the worst case, or if we do, we've got other funds we can 7 fall back on. So, that's the aggregate insurance. 8 Another thing I want to comment on is, we've 9 talked about you pay the first $40,000 per claim. Well, you 10 can select what that figure is, that $40,000. It can be 11 $50,000 it can be $100,000 or anywhere in between. The more 12 -- obviously, the more risk you take -- all we're talking 13 about here is deductible. It's nothing technical -- 14 complicated. The higher that deductible goes, the higher 15 that $40,000 retention goes, the less you pay for your stop 16 loss insurance, but the bigger risk you expose yourself to. 17 And so I would classify -- from the outside looking in at 18 Kerr County's plan, you've run a very conservative plan. 19 I've seen many insurers your size with $60,000 retention, 20 some with $75,000. They save money on their stop loss 21 insurance, but they take a risk with it. So, it would be 22 interesting to see, looking back in time, you know, how much 23 that has saved you or cost you. 24 Okay. Well, with that said, let me get down 25 to point out some aspects here of this coverage. Now, this 12-22-03 124 1 package you're looking at starts off, the first three pages, 2 just being the stop loss insurance and administrative 3 expenses. There's really nothing addressed on these first 4 three pages about the coverage that the employees get. All 5 these expenses on the first three pages are things that deal 6 with the County Commissioners Court and your budget, and not 7 the benefits page so much. Below that, we have a 8 spreadsheet -- starts off the fourth page of your package. 9 It's titled High Benefit Plan Levels. For example, right 10 now, Kerr County has Plans A, B, and C. Well, Plan A, I 11 consider to be a high plan, B the mid, and C, the low plan. 12 Your RFP asked people to quote the plan you have, or as 13 close to it as they could, so several of the -- of the 14 proposers quoted identical benefits to what you have now, 15 and some just quoted close. So, we'll look at benefits this 16 afternoon in a minute. 17 Let me go back to the first page, and then 18 we'll delve into the funding options. The first -- the 19 second column on the left, which is titled "Expiring" is 20 just information about your current plan -- your current 21 policy, rather, and I just put it on here for benchmark 22 purposes, so you know where you are today. All the columns 23 to the right, we're talking about where you're going to be 24 in 2004. If you look at the funding methods, which is the 25 second item down on the first column, left-hand column, 12-22-03 125 1 virtually all these are self-funded plans, with the 2 exception of the last one on the right by the Texas 3 Association of Counties, which is a fully insured quote. 4 And the fifth column from the left, TAC has also quoted a 5 self-funded quote, so we have to keep in mind as we talk 6 about TAC, there's really two proposals on the table. 7 You've got the name of the insurer; you know, you're now 8 with, Clarendon. E.B.A.'s quoting Fidelity Security. 9 Greentree's working with Mutual of Omaha, TAC with Blue 10 Cross. Mutual of Omaha's giving you a direct quote with 11 Mutual of Omaha as a stop loss carrier, and then TAC's 12 fully-insured plan uses Blue Cross. 13 Those are all fine companies, suitable A.M. 14 Best ratings, with the exception of Blue Cross. That is not 15 rated by A.M. Best, because it's not technically an 16 insurance company, although it writes more medical insurance 17 probably than anybody in the state. On a coverage basis, 18 this is where you see the numbers we've talked about a while 19 ago, 12-12, 12-12. Notice the TAC self-funded plan is on a 20 12-15 basis, so they're giving you more coverage in that 15. 21 That's going to be reflected in the pricing, you would 22 think. Only reasonable. And then, on their fully insured 23 plan, last column on the right, that would be a 12-24, 24 meaning it's covering benefits -- expenses incurred during 25 2004, and paid either in 2004 or 2005. Next line down, 12-22-03 126 1 coverage basis for optional quotes, I just wanted to point 2 out that Greentree, for example, quoted an 8-8 plan, an 11-8 3 plan, a 12-15 plan. TAC quoted a 9-12 plan. And, for 4 example, I think Bill Norwood with TAC told me that the 5 purpose for that is that you were considering changing your 6 -- your effective date, your anniversary date to 10/1, so a 7 9-12 would be the type of policy you'd buy in that case -- 8 9-9 or 9-12. 9 Another -- the next item, going down the 10 list, is Covered Benefits. There is very important, because 11 we've got two lines that say Covered Benefits in the 12 left-hand column, one for the specific coverage and one for 13 the aggregate. What this means is, like, on your expiring 14 policy, we talked about a $40,000 deductible, in essence, 15 for the specific coverage. This medical term means that 16 only medical expenses go towards satisfying that $40,000. 17 Prescription drug expenses don't go towards satisfying it. 18 Moving one line down on your aggregate coverage, the one 19 that puts the dollar cap annually on all your retentions 20 combined, keeps from breaking your budget, on the aggregate 21 coverage you can submit currently medical and prescription 22 drugs to reach that $1.4 million aggregate limit. Now, with 23 E.B.A. this year, their stop loss carrier has agreed to 24 allow you to put medical and Rx toward the satisfaction of 25 the specific claims, and same for the aggregate. 12-22-03 127 1 Greentree's not that way. Greentree's written it like you 2 now have it, with medical only on specific. Same with TAC, 3 but Mutual of Omaha allows those prescription drugs to also 4 be considered for the specific. 5 Next line down deals with your specific 6 retention. Again, these examples I'm showing here are all 7 at $40,000. But, as shown on the following line, there are 8 some options at $50,000 retentions, some at 60, some at 75, 9 some at 100. But with the time frame you have before you, 10 it would be my recommendation that you buy a 40 now, and 11 then consider changing it; spend the time and effort looking 12 at how much it would save versus what you think the risk 13 would be of increasing that, and leave it at 40 if it 14 doesn't work out right, but if it shows that you should be 15 buying $60,000 retention, then you could change that later, 16 meaning like in January, February, March. 17 Okay. Lasering, that's a term I haven't 18 described yet. We've talked about, and repeatedly -- you're 19 probably tired of hearing me talk about this $40,000 20 retention. It applies to everybody, each individual. 21 However, if you've had a person with -- develop a serious 22 illness, and it's getting close to renewal time, and that 23 insurance -- that underwriter who's developing your renewal 24 pricing is looking at your case, and he knows that you've 25 got Joe Blow over here working for you who's covered, and 12-22-03 128 1 we've already spent, you know, $25,000 on this plan, and we 2 know he's got a condition that's going to continue on into 3 the next year. We -- case management reports tell us he -- 4 it could be a $100,000 expense in 2004. Well, company's 5 going to say, "Time out. While we're happy to give you a 6 $40,000 retention on everybody else, on this one person that 7 we know of who's going to produce, we feel very confident, a 8 large claim next year, we want to increase that $40,000 to 9 $80,000 or $100,000." And so it forces you into taking on 10 more risk than you originally wanted to, because they can 11 add -- they can laser somebody at each annual anniversary. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: More than one person? 13 MR. GRAY: More than one person. Now, in 14 your case, there is one person, only one, that is a concern 15 to several of the underwriters, and so some of these 16 underwriters have said, on that one person, we want to have 17 a $75,000 retention. Everybody else at $40,000, but the 18 County's going to take an extra $35,000 of responsibility. 19 So, if you feel like the underwriters do, there's a good 20 chance of that claim reaching over -- exceeding $40,000, 21 then we've got to count that additional $35,000 or $25,000, 22 whatever it ends up being on those actual bills. But for 23 now, I'd say $35,000 is what they're guessing it might cost 24 you above the 40. You've got to add that $35,000 of cost 25 factor when you look at these proposals. 12-22-03 129 1 Now, E.B.A. is not lasering. That's who 2 you're with now on this. Although there's a change in stop 3 loss insurers, the E.B.A. stop loss quote will not laser. 4 TAC's stop loss quote will not laser. But Greentree wants 5 to increase that $40,000 to $75,000, and so does Mutual of 6 Omaha. There's a question mark there in bold print in the 7 Greentree line that's kind of a reminder to myself; that's 8 an item that had not yet been pinned down. And on the way 9 driving here today, I had the opportunity to speak to 10 Mr. Lindsey in the back, and learned that the Greentree 11 $75,000 retention, you'll pay the $75,000 -- for example, 12 those expenses that you pay do not count toward satisfying 13 your aggregate insurance, which is going to be $1 million 14 plus. So, it's a -- 15 MR. LINDSEY: Don, I think I misunderstand 16 what you were asking. That would require the same as the 17 other. 18 MR. GRAY: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which -- repeat the 20 answer, please. 21 MR. LINDSEY: I said I mis -- I talked to Don 22 on the phone there morning. I misunderstood what he was 23 saying partly, and that's -- you're not going to have a 24 double count there, is what I'm saying. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let me see if I 12-22-03 130 1 understand. Is the answer that Mutual of Omaha and 2 Greentree are the same on lasering? 3 MR. GRAY: No, sir. According to what he's 4 saying -- 5 MR. LINDSEY: On this piece of paper it 6 isn't, but in reality, it is. 7 MR. GRAY: Oh, you're right. Thank you. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Now I am confused. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, if we pick -- 10 MR. GRAY: You're right, Commissioner. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: If we pick lasering, 12 it's only going to apply to one employee? 13 MR. GRAY: That's correct, and apply the same 14 way on those two proposals. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 16 MR. GRAY: Wait a minute, I've confused 17 myself, Commissioner. Mutual of Omaha, the second -- second 18 column from the right, I've written that that $75,000 19 retention does not count toward the aggregate catchment 20 point. And your -- on your quote, you say it does. 21 MR. LINDSEY: I did there morning, but 22 actually, I think there's not an additional -- you pay 23 $35,000 over the spec and it doesn't go extra 35 to the 24 aggregate. Outside the aggregate, so it's more than the 25 other one is. That's the way Mutual of Omaha writes their 12-22-03 131 1 contract. 2 MS. NEMEC: They're the same. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Same? 4 MR. GRAY: Okay, they are the same. Let's 5 move down to guarantees. E.B.A. is where I'm seeing a 6 three-year freeze on various fees, the T.P.A. fees. That 7 would include your claim administrative fees, your COBRA 8 fees, utilization and review and network fees. Greentree 9 has done the same. TAC is just a one-year guarantee. 10 Mutual of Omaha is a one-year guarantee, but they have given 11 us their pricing for their claim administrative services in 12 year two, and in year two, on an annual basis, you'd pay 13 about $15,000 more due to rate increases on their 14 administrative services. Now, below this we have various 15 numerical rates. There's a stop -- the cost of the specific 16 stop loss rate; that's the premium you pay to the stop loss 17 insurer. For example, right now, your expiring policy, 18 you're paying $57.40 a month per employee. Then you've got 19 a rate for the very same coverage that applies to the 20 employee independent category of $124.21. You've got 21 aggregate stop loss rates, claim administration rates, 22 utilization management rates, COBRA rates, network rates. 23 That's the amount paid for the -- to be part of the network. 24 And that produces a monthly fixed cost, and on the next 25 page -- top of the next page, we have the annual fixed 12-22-03 132 1 costs. And so, on the current year, your annual fixed cost 2 based on the enrollment today would be about $293,000, and 3 that's 2003 year. All the rest of the figures here are for 4 2004. E.B.A. is at $275,000. Greentree, 267. TAC is at 5 341, and Mutual of Omaha at 279. 6 Again, back up a minute. E.B.A.'s frozen for 7 2004, 2005, 2006. Greentree and TAC, the next two over, are 8 one-year guarantees. And Mutual of Omaha is a one-year 9 guarantee, but we know what next year's would be; 2005, that 10 would be a $15,000 increase in the rates that they have 11 already given us, so that's how much you pay them for their 12 services, stop loss and T.P.A. claims service. Then the 13 remainder of this page deals with how they come up with that 14 magic number that -- on the aggregate stop loss that limits 15 your liability for claims in a year to a certain dollar 16 amount. The way they calculate that, instead of being nice 17 and simple, they could just tell you, "We're going to cap 18 the County's claims at $1.2 million, period." But they 19 realize that, you know, your employment numbers may go up, 20 your employment numbers may go down, and so, to make it a 21 little more complicated, they charge a rate per head, per 22 month, and that's what's these rates are. And when you do 23 all the math on multiplying these rates times the number of 24 people in each rate category, you come up with monthly 25 maximum claims and annual maximum claims. The policy that 12-22-03 133 1 expires at the end of this year has an annual maximum 2 attachment point of $1.4 million, so if your claims were to 3 ever exceed 1.4 in 2003, that's when you stop paying claims 4 and let your stop loss policy take over on the aggregate 5 coverage. 6 Now, I've been told that you've never gotten 7 anywhere close to filing a claim on your aggregate coverage. 8 You're buying this aggregate coverage, and it's wise to buy 9 it, because who knows what might happen next year? But the 10 aggregate is set at a point that's high enough to where the 11 underwriters don't think there going to have to pay an 12 aggregate claim. Pretty unusual to hear of an aggregate 13 claim, and I've been told you've never gotten anywhere near 14 it, which is good, but at least you've got that aggregate 15 there if you had that bad year. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How much -- are you going 17 to get to a point where you tell us how much that aggregate 18 claim coverage costs? 19 MR. GRAY: In terms of a monthly rate? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, in terms of, is it 21 a smart decision for us to continue to carry it? 22 MR. GRAY: Extremely smart. I don't think 23 there's an agent in here -- they may disagree with who I'm 24 going to recommend, but they wouldn't recommend you buy 25 aggregate (sic). 12-22-03 134 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Recommend you not buy 2 it? Is that what you're saying? 3 MR. GRAY: Correct. They want you to buy it. 4 I want you to buy it. The taxpayers of this county want you 5 to buy it. 6 MR. MALEK: You're required by law to, 7 Commissioner, anyway. 8 MR. GRAY: Commissioners Court has been doing 9 a good job every year of buying it. There are some 10 exceptions to that. 11 MR. MALEK: Right. 12 MR. GRAY: Let's see here. Now, E.B.A. is 13 telling us with a figure -- there giving us a figure of 14 1.17 million. That means that once the County's claims got 15 to that level at 40,000 a pop, no more claims out of the 16 County's budget. Greentree is considerably less, at 17 1.16 million -- I mean 1.1 million. TAC's higher than 18 E.B.A. at 1.226, and Mutual of Omaha is the lowest of all at 19 1.043 million. So, Mutual of Omaha is giving you a comfort 20 level of only 1.04 million. If claims exceed that amount -- 21 let's say you stay with -- you went with E.B.A., and claims 22 exceeded 1.04 million. You're going to wish you'd gone with 23 Mutual of Omaha, because you're still paying claims with 24 E.B.A. up to 1.17. That same comment applies to Greentree 25 and TAC. Now, while that sounds great, that you've got a -- 12-22-03 135 1 that Mutual of Omaha gives you the lowest cap on your 2 liability, keep in mind that if you don't reach that cap, 3 then the difference between those quotes are immaterial. 4 But if you had a bad year, you'd reach the Mutual of Omaha 5 cap first. But if the history of the plan continues next 6 year like it has in the past, you won't get anywhere near 7 the $1 million. And so, what -- you know, as long as these 8 figures are at least a million, anything above it is really 9 kind of immaterial, if you have claims in the future that 10 are similar to the past. If you don't, then the lowest 11 annual aggregate attachment point is going to be the best. 12 Okay, let's put two things together. At the 13 top of the page we have annual fixed costs. We've just 14 talked about the annual maximum claims; that's in bold in 15 the left column. Add those together and you end up with a 16 third item that's bolded in the left-hand column, annual 17 administration and maximum claims. Again, there is the 18 worst-case scenario. E.B.A., 1.45. Greentree, 1.38. TAC, 19 1.56. Mutual of Omaha, the lowest at 1.32. So, these 20 figures just emphasize what I was telling you, in that the 21 large part of those figures on that line comes from the low 22 attachment points we looked at, so we don't know whether 23 you're going to hit that attachment point. We do know 24 you're going to pay the annual fixed costs, so those -- the 25 annual fixed costs are certainly important, 'cause you are 12-22-03 136 1 going to pay those. The annual maximum claims is just 2 protection that you might need. Let me also mention that 3 Blue Cross, on the self-funded plan, has a feature called 4 the terminal stop loss runout liability, and they have a 5 feature in their contract which would require you to pay an 6 additional 191,000 when you leave them to pay the runout. 7 And they're not trying to be mean by doing that; they're 8 just helping you set aside -- you know, so it doesn't come 9 as a shock to you. 10 MR. NORWOOD: Don, can I mention, to the 11 extent that's not used, you only spend what you use. 12 MR. GRAY: Okay, that's true. You pay up to 13 that amount. Then the enrollment figures that all my 14 calculations are based on are provided below. Moving on to 15 the next page, there's a note on the next page that mentions 16 retirees; I don't want to leave them out of this equation. 17 Even though on the spreadsheet I use the term "employee 18 only" and "employee and spouse," I'm including the retirees 19 in those figures. Also want to point out that since TAC is 20 quoting -- back up. TAC is quoting -- well, if you stay 21 with E.B.A., you can continue your Plan A, B, C. If you go 22 with Greentree, you can continue your Plans A, B, C. If you 23 go with Mutual of Omaha, they've quoted some plans that are 24 somewhat similar to A, B, and C, but at least it's three 25 different levels, a high, medium, and a low. But if you go 12-22-03 137 1 with TAC, what you have is offering all employees and 2 retirees the -- their 300 plan and 1100 plan, and I'll just 3 call it A and a B, or 1 and 2. Or throw that out the window 4 and offer, again, two other plans, which would be the 300 5 plan and the 1200 plan, which is like an A and a C somewhat. 6 So, with TAC, you would not have three plans. You'd have 7 your choice between a Plan A and a Plan B, basically, and a 8 Plan A and a Plan C. But you wouldn't offer the whole thing 9 to employees, just A/B or the A/C option. So, in these 10 numbers, I'm assuming, for example, that all these people 11 who are on the current Plan C would go to the Plan B. Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: On that one, I have 13 a little trouble with the assumptions here, the "based on" 14 assumptions. 15 MR. GRAY: Yes, sir. Let's go back. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Looks like the first 17 case, which is the high plan, the totals are somewhere 18 around 200, and the mid-plan, the totals are only 50 or so. 19 What am I looking at? 20 MR. GRAY: Well, to my knowledge, these 21 figures are correct. It reflects your participation. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: This is actual 23 current participation? 24 MR. GRAY: Yes, sir. What we're saying here 25 is, yes, the vast majority of your employees are on the A 12-22-03 138 1 plan. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And the vast 3 majority are on employee-only. 4 MR. GRAY: Right. That's another -- 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What do you make of 6 that? 7 MR. GRAY: It's tough paying the dependent 8 premiums, or there fortunate to have their spouse employed 9 elsewhere. So, without knowing your group, I couldn't say 10 one or the other. But, you know, I would think there's some 11 proposers in this room that would question you having three 12 plans. There's a cost -- although you never see it labeled 13 as such, it's going to cost you more to operate three plans, 14 typically by antiselection, than it would if you had only 15 two plans. And so, when you get down to participation 16 that's as low as it is in Plan C, that tells me you need to 17 think about eliminating that type and going back to two 18 plans. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Gray, on optional quotes 20 for the coverage basis, it appears that there are -- number 21 one, you've got TAC quoting on a 12-15, which covers that 22 last three months of each calendar year, essentially; is 23 that not correct? 24 MR. GRAY: That's correct. They didn't offer 25 a 12-12, so that was the closest thing they had to it. 12-22-03 139 1 JUDGE TINLEY: You've got optional quotes 2 under Greentree and Mutual of Omaha with a 12-15 also. 3 MR. GRAY: Correct. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: What about the pricing on 5 those? 6 MR. GRAY: Oh, you know, Judge, there was a 7 quote from E.B.A.; I should have typed in a 12-15 also. 8 It's not typed there. There should be a 12-15 in that 9 column. The differences you see in price here and in ag 10 attachment points are carried forward, almost the same 11 percentages, to their 12-15 quotes. So, in other words, you 12 could decide on the basis of their 12-12 quote today, and 13 end up meeting with them and buying a 12-15. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: For the same money? 15 MR. GRAY: Not for the same money, but I'm 16 saying the less cost -- the least costly proposer, you'd see 17 that on the 12-15 quote as well. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: This shows we 20 have -- currently have 265 people enrolled, which includes, 21 I think, a handful of retirees; is that right? How many 22 total -- how many people are not participating in the 23 insurance at all, if it's 265 bodies, our total current 24 employee -- employee count plus retirees? 25 MS. NEMEC: I believe Don said he included 12-22-03 140 1 the retirees in there. 2 MR. GRAY: But I don't know if there's other 3 employees who are not on the plan. 4 MS. NEMEC: There's probably two or three, 5 and part-timers. 6 MR. GRAY: Any other questions before we move 7 into the benefits? So, the remainder of the pages ahead 8 you're looking at deal with comparison of the high benefit 9 plans and the mid-level benefit plans, but did not -- I did 10 not include, 'cause I didn't think you wanted me to spend my 11 time on it, doing the Plan C, 'cause it only has 11 people, 12 the low-level plans. Now, we've got -- going back to the 13 first page of this high benefit level plans, I just want to 14 go through there with you and point out some items that 15 caught my attention and may be of interest to you in terms 16 of differences among the quotes. Again, we've got the 17 current plan. Now, in is case, Plan A is the benchmark 18 shown here. You've got two columns under Plan A, one for 19 network coverage, the other for non-network coverage. And 20 that follows across the page for each of the different 21 proposers. Here with TAC, we just have one plan. Now, it's 22 their plan 300. We have, again, the network and non-network 23 column, but these benefits are available regardless of 24 whether you want to take their self-funded option or their 25 fully insured option. 12-22-03 141 1 Now, on the first page here, let me discuss 2 the network. It's my understanding you're happy with the 3 network you presently have, which is Hill Country Alliance 4 local -- on the local level, supported by Texas True Choice 5 outside the local area. With Greentree, they're offering 6 Hill Country Alliance locally, and those question marks I've 7 now got the answer to; there using U.S.A. as their 8 out-of-area non-local network. TAC is using the Blue Cross 9 network, and Mutual of Omaha is using Texas True Choice, 10 both locally and non-locally. Often I'll do, when I'm 11 writing an RFP, a doctor-by-doctor questionnaire. You know, 12 are these doctors included in your proposals? Are these 13 hospitals included? I've not done that, because I just -- 14 as far as putting it on paper, I've looked through, saw that 15 many -- these networks apply to many of the doctors, if not 16 -- vast majority of them here locally, including, of course, 17 the hospital and San Antonio hospitals. So, I really can't 18 find fault with any of the networks in terms of 19 participants. And, as mentioned earlier, I know nothing of 20 what type of discounts these networks are giving to you. 21 I've asked people about that -- the proposers, and, you 22 know, I hear that theirs are the best, but I can't quantify 23 that. 24 Okay. Going down the page, you know, we've 25 got deductibles that apply for individual. Notice the TAC 12-22-03 142 1 proposals offer the lowest deductibles. Let me stop on that 2 point right there. When you're buying a fully insured plan, 3 having a low deductible, for example, or high benefit might 4 be perceived to be a great thing. But when the County -- 5 you gentlemen here -- are in charge of managing this plan 6 and paying for it, you have to wear two hats. One is as 7 your -- you, the individual employed County Judge receiving 8 medical benefits, and the other half is your budgetary 9 position of, the higher the benefits, the more you're paying 10 out. So, when I say that TAC is offering the lowest 11 deductible, some -- there's a part of me that says that's 12 great, and there's a fiscal part of me that says, "Wait a 13 minute, I don't think we, Kerr County, for example, wants to 14 go that route." You've got a family deductible, which is 15 typically three times the individual; pretty standard 16 across-the-board here. 17 Some of the proposers -- well, actually, all 18 of them except Mutual of Omaha offer the three-month 19 deductible carry-over, so if you get into the last quarter 20 of the year, you haven't satisfied your deductible, they 21 give you a little grace period in that you can use the 22 fourth quarter expenses to be charged against the next 23 year's deductible. Just makes it easier. Again, that's a 24 cost to you. It's a nice benefit to the employees. So, you 25 decide personally how -- if it's a positive or a negative 12-22-03 143 1 feature. You've got some co-insurance maximums shown across 2 here that vary, primarily because some include deductibles 3 and some don't, and so I would really encourage you to turn 4 the page and just get down to the top of the next page, 5 where we talk about total out-of-pocket, which includes 6 deductibles. Everybody's looked at on the same scale here. 7 You're currently at $2,400 out-of-pocket per person, and 8 48 -- that's in-network, and $4,800 out-of deductible for 9 individuals. E.B.A.'s quoting the very same thing. 10 Greentree is quoting the same thing; that's why it's blank 11 there. TAC has lower figures; 17, 15, 4,000. And then 12 Mutual of Omaha is matching everybody else. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Don, explain that to 14 me one more time, the total out-of-pocket. I understand 15 that includes the deductible, and what else? 16 MR. GRAY: It would -- most -- many of the 17 benefits, particularly if you go in a hospital, are going to 18 start out being paid at 90 percent of your own Plan A, 19 Commissioner. You're paying 10 percent out of your pocket. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 21 MR. GRAY: As your 10 percents add up and 22 then you add your deductible to those 10 percents, once 23 those dollars out of your pocket reach that $2,400, you're 24 at the 100 percent level for the rest of that year. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 12-22-03 144 1 MR. GRAY: Then, on lifetime maximums, TAC is 2 offering $2 million. Everybody else is at $1 million 3 benefits. That's another one of those deals where it's -- 4 $2 million is great, unless you're the one paying the 5 $2 million. And, of course, you'd have stop loss insurance 6 pay for most of that. Prescription drugs, we start off on 7 the bottom of this page with generic drugs, both retail and 8 mail-order. You're at a $5 co-pay now on retail, $10 co-pay 9 on generics, but you're getting three months for your 10 mail-order, so if I was on your plan, I'd definitely be 11 using that mail-order option instead of paying $5 a month 12 for generic retail on my maintenance medications. If it's 13 the same as -- the only -- I guess Mutual of Omaha and TAC 14 are different -- really, just Mutual of Omaha, with $10 on 15 the generic retail, $20 on generic mail-order. 16 On the next page, we continue with 17 prescriptions. You got TAC's that are different than the 18 renewal, and you've got some of the Mutual of Omaha, but not 19 all are higher than the renewal. You'll note that the $40 20 co-pay on Mutual of Omaha and 70. Then we move into other 21 benefits, if there are no prescription drug questions. The 22 bottom of this page deals with transplants, because you've 23 got the -- at present, you have a $250,000 lifetime maximum 24 on transplants. Then you've got 90 percent coverage, for 25 example, unless you're in the 100 percent area, which you 12-22-03 145 1 would get to quickly. You have a $10,000 sublimit at 2 present for transportation and lodging. You have a benefit 3 of $10,000 for organ procurement, the cost of obtaining the 4 organ to be transplanted. 5 MR. ROTHWELL: Don, since we last talked, 6 we've taken that $250,000 currently and put it into -- as 7 any other benefit, which would be up to a million dollars. 8 We had a problem with that last year, so we've changed that 9 transplant benefit, going forward to a million dollar plan. 10 MR. GRAY: Okay. That would be an exception 11 to what I asked earlier. 12 MR. ROTHWELL: Yes, it would. You did ask 13 the question, and I found out afterwards. 14 MR. GRAY: Okay. So I'll just let the Court 15 handle that however they want. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where does the million 17 dollars plug in here? 18 MR. GRAY: He was mentioning -- well, for 19 example, with Mutual of Omaha -- no, there not a good 20 example, 'cause they go above a million. No, back up. 21 Mutual of Omaha is a $1 million lifetime maximum, but you 22 could spend all that $1 million, for example, on a 23 transplant. They would cover that transplant up to a 24 million. At present in the Kerr County plan -- and the 25 E.B.A. renewal -- original renewal, that benefit, 'cause, 12-22-03 146 1 you know, your RFP said give us the benefits we have now, 2 and that's what they've done, and that benefit is a 3 transplant limit of $250,000 per lifetime. Once you get to 4 that figure in your current plan, no more transplants for 5 you. Now I've just learned that was up to a million? 6 MR. ROTHWELL: A million lifetime max. 7 MR. GRAY: Except it's for a lifetime. 8 MR. ROTHWELL: Yes. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So the transplant 10 lifetime max changes the 250 to a million? I'm going to 11 scratch through 250 and write a million? 12 MR. GRAY: Actually, don't scratch through 13 250, 'cause I'm describing your current plan, but if you 14 want to make a note of what Mr. Rothwell said, it's over 15 where it says same as expiring benefits, in the gray column. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 17 MR. GRAY: That would be no longer true; it's 18 not the same as expiring. It's now $1 million instead of 19 $250,000. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Both gray columns. 22 MR. GRAY: Yes, sir. And -- yes, sir. And 23 then, on organ procurement, let me point out that Mutual of 24 Omaha is at $50,000, and E.B.A. is up to $10,000, and so is 25 Greentree. And apparently on TAC, those are blank, because 12-22-03 147 1 I didn't address those topics with them. I assume there 2 covering them as any other expense; is that right? At the 3 bottom of the page, we get into the last timeline on the 4 bottom, emergency rooms. That continues on to the next 5 page. Not a lot of difference between quotes. I won't even 6 pause here. In the middle of that page, we have your 7 co-payments. This is the item that's near and dear to your 8 insurers. How much do I have to pay when I go to the 9 doctor? At present, if you go to an in-network doctor in 10 the local area, you're paying $10. If you go to a network 11 doctor in Fredericksburg or San Antonio, you're paying $20 12 per visit. And then you can see that, where it's blank, the 13 columns -- vertical columns, that's the same as expiring. 14 TAC has a $20 co-pay for local providers. Mutual of Omaha 15 is going to have a $10 co-pay for nonlocal providers. 16 Now, in preferred labs, you're now with 17 C.P.L., and there -- it's my understanding -- I've been told 18 there giving you some great pricing, and then, as far as the 19 employee's concerned, it's 100 percent coverage for 20 in-network at C.P.L. lab; they'll have their lab work done 21 there, Clinical Pathology Labs. Note that TAC would also 22 have that 100 percent, and Mutual of Omaha has 100 percent. 23 Of course, Greentree would too, because they're blank. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Don, can we go back up a 25 little bit to where it says "Physician, inpatient"? 12-22-03 148 1 MR. GRAY: Yes, sir. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: "Physician, surgery." 3 Are those if you're using a -- going to an out-of-system 4 provider? You pay -- they pay 90 percent of the cost? 5 MR. GRAY: Well, 90 percent would be in 6 service -- in-system. The 70 percent would be the 7 out-of-system. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 9 MR. GRAY: On the next page, you mention home 10 health care, because that's becoming, you know, more and 11 more common these days in an effort to keep medical expenses 12 down, is to get someone out of the hospital, have them 13 recover at home and have a -- pay a nurse to go visit with 14 that person at home instead of staying in the hospital 15 occupying a bed. At present, you have a $10,000 maximum per 16 lifetime in your benefit plan. E.B.A. and Greentree are, 17 you know, quoting that since there quoting the exact 18 benefits you now have. TAC changes that $10,000 to where it 19 only applies per year. And then Mutual of Omaha is not a 20 dollar limit of $10,000, but it's 100 visits per year, which 21 is going to be around $10,000, the cost of those visits. 22 But, again, they -- neither one of those have the 23 per-lifetime limitation that you now have on your current 24 plan. Skilled nursing, under your current plan -- again, 25 this is another transition-type service out -- from out of 12-22-03 149 1 the hospital to the skilled nursing center. Here, the 2 coverage is seven days in your current plan, which is 3 something we think you'd want to consider changing, to 4 provide someone more coverage. Get them out of the 5 hospital, get them into that skilled nursing center, and 6 have them stay there maybe 14 days or something. 7 Now, I have nothing else marked as being 8 material differences to discuss with you. I'm not saying 9 there aren't any. I'll pause a moment, let you look at the 10 next few pages, see if you have any questions. But those 11 were just some of the items that caught my eye as I was 12 looking for differences. And so, to sum it up, TAC -- you 13 know, if I'm an employee and I don't -- I'm getting free 14 insurance on the employee, I'd want to go with the TAC plan, 15 'cause I'm not paying the premium. Great benefits. If I'm 16 on that side of the wall, I don't know that the County would 17 want to purchase such a rich benefit plan at this point. 18 But your benefit plan you have is -- is good, but we've 19 talked about some areas where it could provide more 20 coverage. The point is, there's a cost in doing that, 21 providing those richer benefits. 22 Now -- well, I said -- let me tell you who I 23 would vote for based on what I know of this -- of these 24 proposals. I'll just come out and be blunt, and then talk 25 about some reasons why, but it would be my recommendation 12-22-03 150 1 that you stay with E.B.A. as your T.P.A., and accept their 2 proposal for stop loss, utilization review, COBRA, network. 3 In the contract that you -- if you do approve that 4 recommendation, you would want to make sure that in your 5 T.P.A. contract, you'd want it to say that it's a three-year 6 contract, those rates for the various components, that their 7 services are guaranteed for three years. You'd probably 8 want to put in there that you'd want the flexibility to back 9 out in an annual anniversary date should you so choose, but 10 I would think they're willing to do the three-year 11 commitment on their end. 12 Now, why, out of all these proposals, am I 13 taking that approach? One is the lasering situation on that 14 one individual. We're talking about the potential for 15 another $35,000 in expense on the Greentree and Mutual of 16 Omaha quotes. You don't have that potential on the TAC and 17 E.B.A. quotes. There's also the transition situation. I 18 know that insurers are -- or people in this business have 19 gotten much better in recent years in issuing I.D. cards, 20 enrolling people, getting prescription drug cards out, but 21 this is the worst time of the year to imagine doing it in 22 the next week. And you knew that before you talked to me, 23 so I'm not telling you anything you didn't know. I'm sure 24 the gentlemen who -- the proposers who I've not recommended 25 may have some thoughts on how they could get all this done 12-22-03 151 1 by January 1, but I've not seen one come close to getting it 2 done in that time frame. It's my understanding -- but this 3 is just from one or two sources, so -- that E.B.A. has done 4 you a good job; you're relatively satisfied with the service 5 in terms of claims services, so that's factored into my 6 recommendation. 7 And the last thing is, I just don't see a lot 8 to be gained by moving right now. One thing to be gained -- 9 you know, just a matter of how much weight you want to put 10 on this -- is the fact that with Mutual of Omaha, you've got 11 that lower attachment point, and if you had a bad year next 12 year, that would be nice. But if the next year is similar 13 to the past years, to me, the importance of that loses a lot 14 of its shine. And I think the fact that you can -- you're 15 assured of what your fixed costs are with E.B.A. and know 16 that they're the best price out there -- let me doublecheck 17 what I just said to make sure -- yeah, 'cause Greentree is 18 actually the best price out there, but Greentree has that 19 lasering issue. So, of the ones without the lasering issue, 20 E.B.A. is the lowest price in terms of fixed costs. And so 21 those are the bases for my recommendation. Now, I'll be 22 happy to take any questions or -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you have an alternate -- a 24 close alternate that comes to mind? 25 MR. GRAY: I'm not prepared to give one, but 12-22-03 152 1 let me just talk off the cuff here. To give you a close 2 alternate, I'd want your feedback on some things. How 3 important is that lasering? 'Cause, to me -- to me, that's 4 very important. And if lasering is important to you, you 5 don't want to have lasering, that gives you the only other 6 option as being TAC. And I think there's such a difference 7 between the E.B.A. and TAC that I wouldn't want to call it a 8 second option. Now, if lasering is not an issue, then 9 that's going to -- should change things, because that would 10 allow E.B.A. to laser that individual, which, of course, is 11 going to reduce their costs even further. So, we'd need 12 more information from them before we could -- 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, reduced to the 14 lowest common denominator, the lasering equals $35,000, does 15 it not? 16 MR. GRAY: Right, the potential. Now, if we 17 were looking at the lasering quotes, looking at just 18 Greentree and Mutual of Omaha, I'd recommend Mutual of 19 Omaha. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why is that? 21 MR. GRAY: Excuse me. Again, I'm thinking 22 off-the-cuff. I'm glad you asked me that. Let me look at 23 some numbers here. Okay. Boy, that's a -- it's close. I 24 wouldn't want to say anything without -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're the same? There 12-22-03 153 1 about a toss-up? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I feel uncomfortable 3 asking you for a second choice, to be honest with you. Not 4 prepared to do that, 'cause I would hope that you would want 5 to sit down and really analyze the specs. 6 MR. GRAY: I would, right. The 7 recommendation I've given you is the one that I put forward. 8 But my role here is to serve you, so, you know, I'll be 9 happy to work with you on any of the proposers. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: But the bases for your 11 recommendation of E.B.A. are, number one, the lasering 12 issue; number two, the transition schedule; thirdly, that 13 based upon Employee Benefit Administrators has gone a good 14 job, and other than that, you just don't see a lot to be 15 gained by moving; is that what I understand? 16 MR. GRAY: There was one -- the three-year 17 guarantee, I should have added that to the list as a fifth 18 item. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, as I understand it, 20 looking at it, if I'm looking at this properly, the cost is 21 also a factor. I mean, if you don't count -- if you take 22 into account the lasering, they're probably the lowest price 23 as well, other than on the fixed costs. 24 MR. GRAY: Certainly on the fixed cost, 25 right. 12-22-03 154 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're slightly higher 2 on the fixed costs, but with the lasering situation -- okay. 3 MR. ROTHWELL: Commissioner, I might add that 4 we've had this plan for six years and have never changed the 5 fixed costs during that time period, and it's exactly today 6 like it has been then. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mr. Gray, do I 8 understand correctly that the E.B.A. quote does include a 9 12-15? 10 MR. GRAY: No, sir. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It did not? 12 MR. GRAY: They offered a 12-15, and those 13 numbers are not shown here. They presented one in the past, 14 and previous courts have not purchased it. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. So, this is 16 the 12-12? 17 MR. GRAY: There is the 12-12. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 19 MR. GRAY: But the numbers have been issued 20 for 12-15. They're not on your spreadsheets, but in other 21 words, it wouldn't take, like -- I'm not telling you you 22 have to wait a week to see them. You can see them this 23 afternoon. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you know or did you 12-22-03 155 1 have the -- well I'll just ask the question. Do you know 2 what the aggregate claim amount is for the last couple of 3 years? 4 MR. GRAY: No, I don't. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You don't have that 6 information? 7 MR. GRAY: No, not firsthand knowledge. I've 8 just been told that you've never gotten anywhere close to 9 it. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Barbara, do you know? 11 MS. NEMEC: No, we just -- never been there. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And you would 13 recommend dropping the low end, just go with the high and 14 mid-plan? 15 MR. GRAY: No, sir. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No? 17 MR. GRAY: Not at this point. I think -- due 18 to the date, I think you need to move forward with your A, 19 B, and C, but I -- just kind of food for thought. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Consider it for the 21 future? 22 MR. GRAY: Yes, sir. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, thank you. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And you can do that, 25 and I quote, "January, February, March"? You said that 12-22-03 156 1 earlier. 2 MR. GRAY: Right. And another food for -- I 3 think the Judge was given credit for this, is that the 4 concept of changing anniversary dates to a different day, 5 that's something else that can be worked out after this 6 decision is made. So -- 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I want to say 8 thank you. You certainly have provided us with a -- a 9 better ability to analyze what's in front of us, and I 10 appreciate your efforts, personally. 11 MR. GRAY: Thank you. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Actually, I want to say 13 it's one of the clearest insurance proposals or discussions 14 I think I've ever had. I think I understand some of it, 15 anyway. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait till we get his 17 bill, though. (Laughter.) 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We'll understand that 19 too. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Easy to understand. We 21 may not like it. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It truly is -- 23 MR. GRAY: Well, the invoice is even easier 24 to understand. It's got one number on it. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What do you want, 12-22-03 157 1 great leader? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If there's nothing else, 3 I'll make a motion. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Anybody have any more 5 questions for Mr. Gray? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, I think he's 7 answered all my mine. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. We appreciate 9 your assistance. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We do have at least 11 one retiree in the room. I wondered, do you have any 12 questions, ma'am? 13 MS. MEEKER: No, I like the proposal. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I have a question 15 about the retiree situation. It's been suggested that -- 16 that something changing is detrimental to the current and 17 future retirees. We're not changing the coverage or the 18 cost for the current or future retirees, are we? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't see it. 20 MS. NEMEC: That depends with who you go 21 with. That depends with what plan you go with. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: But, again, 23 nothing's -- we're not contemplating any change. It's -- 24 their options are the same today as they were, or in the 25 same mixture as they are today. 12-22-03 158 1 MR. GRAY: Correct. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: If you're a current 3 or future retiree. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm confused with 5 Barbara's comments. Under the plans that Mr. Gray reviewed, 6 there's no difference between the retiree coverage and 7 employee coverage. 8 MR. GRAY: Well, there's -- TAC offers you an 9 option that's not presented there where you could do a 10 carve-out, a coordination. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But trying to make apples 12 to apples, you left that out? 13 MR. GRAY: Right. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't feel good 16 about having to be in this situation where it's the 22nd of 17 December, and -- and we've got a huge cost item here to deal 18 with, and not have adequate time to look at options. I 19 don't feel good about not having the opportunity to make a 20 change in the expiration date. I don't feel good about not 21 having an opportunity to rethink the employee premiums, what 22 part of the costs employees pay. I don't -- I wish we had 23 time to reconsider the three levels. There's probably -- 24 probably some other things I don't feel good about, but 25 those are three things that are annoying me the most here, 12-22-03 159 1 three days before Christmas and the expiration of our 2 policy. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree. But I don't 4 know that there's a lot we can do about that today, 5 unfortunately. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not right now. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You can make a motion. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll -- I'll make a 9 motion that we accept the recommendation of our consultant, 10 Mr. Don Gray, to award the insurance to E.B.A. -- 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- as presented. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll second it. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion's been made and 15 seconded to award the coverage to E.B.A. under the proposal 16 as outlined by Mr. Gray. Any questions or discussion? 17 Well, I have a few comments I'd like to make. I think I 18 have an obligation to make these comments. In the motion 19 before the Court, if it's approved, we would place the trust 20 of Kerr County and its employees with respect to their 21 health insurance program in the hands of two entities. 22 Those entities are the same entities which were selected by 23 a previous court to administrator the County's health 24 insurance program. They were paid by Kerr County and its 25 taxpayers to act as the County's representatives and protect 12-22-03 160 1 the interests of Kerr County and its citizens and taxpayers, 2 yet it was those same entities that permitted the previous 3 court to put $400,000 of taxpayer funds at risk under that 4 then-existing program. And while it was subsequently 5 acknowledged and admitted that Kerr County had no legal 6 liability or responsibility to advance or otherwise put that 7 $400,000 at risk, representatives of those entities failed 8 to advise the previous court that it had no such 9 responsibility. 10 That sum of $400,000 represented just under 11 40 percent of the entire health insurance budget of the 12 County. It is my opinion that those entities and their 13 representatives, as the County's paid agents and 14 representatives in the operation of its health insurance 15 program at that time, had a duty -- a fiduciary duty, as it 16 were, to disclose to the previous court that Kerr County had 17 no legal liability or obligation to advance or otherwise 18 place that $400,000 at risk. It is my opinion that those 19 entities and their representatives failed in that duty, 20 which I will appeal to the Court and the taxpayers of this 21 county, where are we on the $400,000 currently? 22 Notwithstanding some rather specific 23 assurances that a return of all or nearly all of the 24 $400,000 would be obtained, and further notwithstanding that 25 I have placed that particular matter on the agenda of this 12-22-03 161 1 court at least three times this year to obtain some 2 resolution, as of right now, the taxpayers and citizens of 3 Kerr County are out about $200,000. $200,000 which, in my 4 opinion, Kerr County had no legal liability to expend. I 5 also have a fiduciary duty to the citizens and taxpayers of 6 this county, as do the other members of this Court. Because 7 of these facts and circumstances, I do not believe that I 8 have the requisite trust and confidence in the entities in 9 which the interests of Kerr County will be placed in 10 connection with its employees' health insurance program by 11 the passage of this motion. Because of that fiduciary duty 12 to the Court and to the citizens and taxpayers, I cannot 13 support the motion. Any other questions or -- questions? 14 Comments? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is there a legal 16 basis for Kerr County to recover the money, Judge? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I guess time will tell, 18 Commissioner. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What steps has the 20 Court taken to find that out? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: If the Commissioner will 22 recall, this matter was placed several months ago before the 23 Court, and the matter is in the hands of the County Attorney 24 being investigated at this time. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, we're 12-22-03 162 1 anticipating his report back that will tell us whether or 2 not there is a legal basis to recover those dollars; is that 3 correct? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I assume so. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Only comment I'd like to 6 make on that -- and I think that it's unknown if litigation 7 may pursue. But also, I just think, for the record, it 8 needs to be pointed out that we were advised by our counsel 9 that this should not be made public at this time, as the 10 Judge has done. We were asked to keep this quiet while we 11 pursued trying to receive this money, and pending or 12 possible litigation. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's correct. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm not asserting a claim; I'm 15 just stating facts, gentlemen. Any other questions or 16 comments? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 17 your right hand. 18 (Commissioners Baldwin, Williams, and Letz voted in favor of the motion.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed? 20 (Commissioner Nicholson voted against the 21 motion.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Any other 23 business? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would like to thank -- 25 JUDGE TINLEY: We stand adjourned. 12-22-03 163 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd like to thank all of 2 the companies that submitted proposals. I appreciate the 3 effort, and I hope you continue to submit proposals as we go 4 out for proposals. 5 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 2:55 p.m.) 6 - - - - - - - - - - 7 8 9 STATE OF TEXAS | 10 COUNTY OF KERR | 11 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 12 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 13 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 14 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 15 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 31st day of December, 16 2003. 17 18 19 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 20 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 21 Certified Shorthand Reporter 22 23 24 25 12-22-03