1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Regular Session 10 Monday, January 12, 2004 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 DAVE NICHOLSON, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X January 12, 2004 2 PAGE --- Visitors' Input 4 3 --- Commissioners Comments 15 4 1.3 Authorize Kerr County Environmental Health Dept. to file grant application with AACOG for funding 5 to expand existing Solid Waste program 21 6 1.4 Request the County Attorney to take action in cases where rainwater runoff causes adverse 7 impact to private or public property 29 8 1.6 PUBLIC HEARING for alternate plat process of Lots 83 and 84, Northwest Hills, Precinct 1 71 9 1.8 Open annual bids for Road and Bridge materials/ 10 equipment, and consider awarding same 71 11 1.1 Consider granting authority for Sheriff's Office to dispose of four cars 78 12 1.12 Report by Kerr 9-1-1 80 13 1.13 Report by Kerr County Constables 94 14 1.2 Approve agreement between Kerr County and 15 Appris, Inc., to provide crime victim notification services to the citizens/residents of Kerr County 110 16 1.5 Review update and current report from third-party 17 administrator on efforts to obtain reimbursement of health care funds 118 18 1.7 Consider approval of alternate plat process of 19 Lots 83 and 84, Northwest Hills, Precinct 1 149 20 1.9 Concept plan for proposed Hermosa Subdivision 151 21 1.10 Set public hearing concerning name changes, regulatory sign, and roads to be abandoned, 22 discontinued and vacated 156 23 1.11 Consider private road name changes in accordance with 911 guidelines 158 24 1.14 Registration/reservations for West Texas County 25 Judges & Commissioners annual conference 158 3 1 I N D E X (Continued) January 12, 2004 2 PAGE 1.15 Consider giving Commissioner Baldwin authority to 3 prepare proposal to host the West Texas County Judges & Commissioners conference 164 4 1.16 Resolution to host the 2006 West Texas Judges and 5 Commissioners Association annual conference 165 6 1.17 Request from Kerr County Republican party to use District Courtroom for Republican Convention 168 7 1.18 Approve contract between Kerr County and Alamo 8 Regional Transit 169 9 1.19 Set a date, establish procedure, and select facilitator for strategic planning session 175 10 1.20 Adopt Kerr County Indigent Health Care policy 187 11 12 4.1 Pay Bills 188 4.2 Budget Amendments 195 13 4.3 Late Bills --- 4.4 Read and Approve Minutes 197 14 4.5 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 198 15 5.2 Reports from Elected Officials/Department Heads 201 16 5.1 Reports from Commissioners/Liaison Committee Assignments 217 17 5.3 Reports from Boards, Commissions, Committees 226 18 --- Adjourned 233 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 4 1 On Monday, January 12, 2004, at 9:00 a.m., a regular 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in the 3 Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville, 4 Texas, and the following proceedings were had in open court: 5 P R O C E E D I N G S 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, ladies and 7 gentlemen. It's just a bit after 9:00. Let me call to 8 order the meeting -- regular Commissioners Court meeting 9 scheduled for this date, Monday, January 12th, at 9 a.m. 10 Precinct 2 Commissioner Williams, I believe have you the 11 honors this morning. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Judge. 13 Will you please rise and join me in a recitation of the 14 Lord's Prayer, and remain standing for the pledge of 15 allegiance. 16 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you very much. Please 18 be seated. It's good to see so many people here today. At 19 this point in the meeting, any member of the public who is 20 with us today that has anything they want to bring to our 21 attention or to talk to us about concerning a matter that is 22 not listed on the agenda is privileged to come forward at 23 this time. If you want to speak on a matter that is listed 24 on the agenda, we would ask that you wait until that agenda 25 item is called, and at that time, we'll be privileged to 1-12-03 5 1 hear you at that time. However, if there's any member of 2 the public that -- that wishes to be heard on any matter 3 that's not listed on the agenda, they can come forward at 4 this time. Is there anyone that wishes to be heard on a 5 matter that's not listed on the agenda? Yes, ma'am? Please 6 come forward, if you might. And if you'd give your name and 7 address, we would appreciate it. 8 MS. JENTSCH: Yes. My name is Beth Jentsch, 9 311 Wood Trail, Kerrville. I don't -- is Solid Waste listed 10 on the -- 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No. 12 MS. JENTSCH: No. Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's listed on the 14 agenda. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: As a grant item only, I 16 believe, but the general issue of solid waste or control is 17 not listed. 18 MS. JENTSCH: Okay. The Commissioner has 19 been very kind and we have called him, several of the 20 people. I don't represent a housing area, just some 21 concerned citizens. And I'm quite nervous, 'cause I'm not a 22 speaker, so this is very difficult for me. But we live in 23 an area out in the west at the first cutoff from -- coming 24 from the west, and I've lived there since '90. And there's 25 some things that are going on out there that have just 1-12-03 6 1 become just impossible to take. The -- the first thing 2 would be as you come off onto Goat Creek, you go down this 3 lovely, bucolic drive, and the first thing the people will 4 see if they're coming from -- in a motor home to go to the 5 K.O.A. is, on the left-hand side, there's a junkyard, and it 6 has no fence, and it has all manner of horrible junk in 7 there. Then, if you're to turn to the left -- turn left -- 8 you know, his name is Wilson, and he's told us -- different 9 people have said something to him, and he said that we could 10 go somewhere, and that we could do nothing to him because 11 he's grandfathered, and that we might as well just forget 12 it, 'cause the County will do nothing to him. 13 If you were to go left on Hollimon, there 14 used to be a very nice little country home there, and it's 15 still there, but a trucking firm has moved there, and they 16 change oil, diesel and batteries. And there's a creek 17 that's, oh, several hundred yards -- Goat Creek -- from it. 18 And I don't -- there's no pavement, and I'm afraid that 19 that -- the runoff is going to get into that creek. Then, 20 if you were to go up the hill, there up on Wood Trail, there 21 is a man there that has decided to put just junk in his 22 yard, just all manner of junk. And one of our neighbors 23 went there, and he told her that if he -- anybody came in 24 his yard, that he would shoot them. So, I personally -- I 25 don't have a lot of nerve in that respect, and I -- I'm 1-12-03 7 1 just -- I'm at my wit's end as to what to do with this type 2 of thing. 3 If you go to the very end of the street and 4 turn around, there's a home that has a ravine in the back, 5 and they're putting tires and they're throwing water heaters 6 and batteries down in this ravine. And then, if you go all 7 the way around, there's a residence on Roland -- and you can 8 see this from the highway; he's actually having trucks come 9 in and haul away the dirt, and you can see this scar from 10 the highway. And my husband's a civil engineer, and he said 11 that what's going to happen with the rains, that that's just 12 going to come down, and poor Mr. Valentine here lives next 13 door to him, and he's going to get flooded. So, I know this 14 is an awful lot to bring at once, but there's some -- 15 it's -- our Commissioner said that we have a rather 16 schizophrenic neighborhood in that we have the nice homes, 17 and then the -- the ones -- there's only about six people 18 that -- five or six that are -- that are causing all this 19 grief for everyone else, and I just hope that perhaps 20 something could be done about it. Thank you so much. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. You did a 23 very good job. 24 MS. JENTSCH: Thanks. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there anyone else that -- 1-12-03 8 1 yes, sir? Please come forward, if you would, please, and 2 give your name and address. 3 MR. BROWN: Good morning. My name is Jim 4 Brown. I'm at 409 Wood Trail; I'm in the same subdivision 5 she is in. Hi, Buster. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Morning. 7 MR. BROWN: We -- just let me make it as 8 brief as I can. The -- the neighborhood members are 9 concerned about these areas that Beth has pointed out, and 10 there are various spots all through here that these solid 11 waste accumulations are taking place, and have for some 12 time. And, naturally, they are -- the homes are not kept 13 up, and the -- just the overall look of their places 14 detracts from the neighborhood. And we're very concerned 15 about that, and apparently nothing's being done or -- or has 16 been done that can alleviate that problem, correct it, or 17 make an emphasis on these people to make a correction 18 themselves. And we are seeking help from you, as a body or 19 a member there, to help us get something done, get something 20 enforced. And these -- there's a group of people here this 21 morning that represent that neighborhood, and they all have 22 the same basic concerns. Thank you very much. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. Is there 24 anyone else that wishes to be heard on a matter that is not 25 on the agenda? Yes, sir? If you would please come forward 1-12-03 9 1 and give your name and address. 2 MR. WELLS: Yes, sir. My name is Mike Wells. 3 I live at 140 Ranger Trail, and I just want to echo what Jim 4 said here just a moment ago. The primary problem that we -- 5 we've got out there in regards to trash and just out-and-out 6 household garbage is coming from the last two houses on 7 Ranger Trail. I live at 140, and they're directly across 8 the street from me. You could ride out there, see for 9 yourself. I could talk on it all day, but you could look at 10 it yourself and see what the problem is. I've been there 11 for right at three years, and I've picked up garbage every 12 other day almost for the entire three years that my wife and 13 I have been there. I've picked up more beer cans, beer 14 bottles, and dirty diapers and baby food receptacles since 15 I've been there than I have when I raised my own kids, and 16 I'm tired of picking up garbage and having it strewn all 17 over my property. And it stinks, it's nasty, it's offensive 18 to have to pick up, and I've picked up cans full at a time. 19 I'm not talking about just a -- you know, a piece of paper 20 blowing in the yard or something like that, but I'm talking 21 about actual cans full of trash. Pure, nasty, household 22 garbage and everything you can imagine. 23 And the same thing out on Wood Trail. I get 24 out there with my little tractor and my cart and garbage 25 can, go up and down there, just like Jim does, picking up 1-12-03 10 1 trash, trying to keep the place looking nice. There's been 2 times when I have been ashamed to have my family come up 3 from Houston to visit me, with all the garbage that's up and 4 down Wood Trail. And I have a back entrance that comes into 5 my property that's not on Ranger Trail; you come in off of 6 Wood Trail. And I have them come in in the back there at 7 times because I don't want them to come down Ranger Trail 8 because it's so filthy down there. And you -- as I said, 9 you can look at it and see for yourselves what -- what would 10 need to be done. And these people could care less. And I 11 haven't said anything to them yet, but it's all I can do to 12 contain myself. But I've about run my gauntlet on it, and I 13 would appreciate anything anybody could do to help us out. 14 Thank y'all. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. Is there 16 anyone else? Yes, sir? Please feel free to come forward 17 and give us your name and address, if you would, please. 18 MR. DAHM: George Dahm, 217 Mustang Trail. I 19 have a specific piece of solid waste -- I say a piece; it's 20 water pipe, PVC water pipe, about 20 or 30 feet long. Two 21 years ago, about when the County repaved Wood Trail, there 22 was some damage done to the water pipes alongside the road, 23 and I have heard rumors of agreements between the water 24 company and Roads and Bridges. I cannot say what agreements 25 they did have, but they tore up this -- they took out this 1-12-03 11 1 one length of pipe that's defective, replaced it, and the 2 old pipe has laid alongside the road there for better than 3 two years. Now, I don't know whether it's Roads and Bridges 4 that are responsible for it or the water company. I 5 understood that there was an agreement that the Roads and 6 Bridges would install the new pipe where it had been damaged 7 by the construction if the water company supplied the new 8 pipe to be installed. And they did -- the County did 9 install a new pipe. But, whose responsibility it is to get 10 rid of the old, I don't know, but it's one of the two. 11 Thank you. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. Is there 13 anyone else that wishes to be heard on a matter that is not 14 on the agenda? We'd be happy for you to come forward. Just 15 an observation -- excuse me. Yes, sir? Please come 16 forward; give us your name and address. 17 MR. VALENTINE: I don't know if I should 18 speak now or wait till Section 1.4 comes up because of my -- 19 what I have to say. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We're going to talk 21 about the caliche pit on the agenda. 22 MR. VALENTINE: So, you want me to wait? 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 24 MR. VALENTINE: Okay. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anyone else that -- 1-12-03 12 1 that wishes to come forward and talk about a matter that's 2 not listed on the agenda? As an observation, gentlemen, I 3 note that our Environmental Health Department head is here, 4 and I suspect he's been paying close attention to the 5 comments that were just made. It sounds as though we may 6 have us an enforcement issue, and -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, sir? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll wait till you're 10 finished. I think -- you know, we came -- all the concerns 11 we just heard are not on the agenda, except for the one 12 about the caliche pit we're going to hear, so we really 13 can't answer them. It's not that we're not wanting to right 14 now; it's not on the agenda. But I think one of the -- 15 couple of things come to mind. There's one -- well, you 16 know, if it's some solid waste issue, we do have authority 17 to work on it. Most, unfortunately, we don't. Because of 18 the law, we just don't have the authority. But I think what 19 would be really helpful is if we could schedule, maybe at 20 our next meeting, maybe a workshop to kind of give -- get 21 with the County Attorney and kind of go over for the 22 Court -- we haven't done this in a while, I don't believe, 23 and the public to let everyone know what our authority is 24 and what their recourses are in situations that come up. If 25 the Court doesn't have the authority, what are your 1-12-03 13 1 alternatives? And I think that would be a real helpful, 2 probably, discussion. And then we can, you know, post and 3 do it in the afternoon so it's more of a timed item. It 4 might be helpful to a lot of people in the community, 5 because these are issues that have come up as long as I've 6 been a Commissioner, sporadically, and they're frustrating. 7 They're frustrating to us as Commissioners, and they're 8 certainly frustrating to residents in the county. And I 9 think, with the Environmental Health Department expanding 10 under the County's control, there are certain things that we 11 certainly would like to be able to do, but certain things we 12 just can't do. And I think it helps everyone if everyone 13 understands what our authority is and what your authorities 14 are. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just a follow-up to 16 what Commissioner Letz is saying, Judge. Mr. North, our 17 Solid Waste enforcement officer, had a document which he has 18 presented to the newspapers outlining solid waste 19 requirements, options, the law, what can be done, what 20 cannot be done and so forth, and that was published -- oh, I 21 don't know, maybe a year or so ago. It needs to be 22 published again, and if the newspapers don't have that 23 document readily at their command, I'm sure the 24 Environmental Health Department could get that document from 25 Mr. North, and it would be good public information to print 1-12-03 14 1 it again, which is -- is following up on what Commissioner 2 Letz is saying. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Plus -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Good point, Commissioner. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Plus pointing out the 6 difference between what the state law says and what the 7 subdivision covenants say. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, there is a 9 distinction. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There is a 11 distinction. And, you know, the state law we can deal with. 12 Subdivision covenants, they have to deal with on their own 13 through the J.P. courts. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Commissioner, just 15 for your information, Sergeant North and I have been out 16 there and looked at some of these things, and -- we've 17 looked at all of them, and the County Engineer and I have 18 been out there and looked at some other issues, and 19 Sergeant North is taking action now. I think he's -- I've 20 been out of town for a few days; I think he has delivered 21 letters to some of these offenders, and outlining for them 22 what they have to do before further -- further legal action. 23 So, something's going on on it, but more is needed. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just as a follow-up, 25 again -- and it gets down to the same suggestion we had on 1-12-03 15 1 O.S.S.F. enforcement. At some point, our efforts break 2 down, and I think we need to address that. Same thing 3 applies here as it did O.S.S.F. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think this -- it 5 goes hand-in-hand. We were tentatively going to schedule, 6 sometime in January or February, a workshop with O.S.S.F. 7 education issues, and I think we really can probably put 8 these two issues -- items together, as to how to get the 9 public informed as to what -- how to proceed. When -- you 10 know, when there's either an O.S.S.F. issue or solid waste 11 issue, you know what to do and who to contact and how to try 12 to get it rectified. 13 MS. JENTSCH: Is the article you were 14 speaking of -- is that the one where "public nuisance" was 15 mentioned? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It very well may have 17 been. It covered a whole raft of information about solid 18 waste and what the issues are all about and how to address 19 it. Let's get it republished again. If that doesn't 20 address some of your needs, we'll get something else. 21 MS. JENTSCH: Very fine. I appreciate it. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there anyone else that 23 wishes to be heard about a matter that's not listed on the 24 agenda? Okay. We'll move on to the next item on the 25 agenda, Commissioners' Comments. Commissioner Williams, do 1-12-03 16 1 you have anything for us this morning? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not really, Judge. 3 What I -- what we're going to talk about in a little bit is 4 our grant application for Solid Waste, but I think what's 5 taking place this morning in the open session is 6 confirmation of our need to pursue this matter to every 7 extent we possibly can. So, I'll reserve my other comments 8 at that time. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Letz? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think all the comments 11 -- items I have are probably better suited for the 12 Commissioners' comments on the liaison-type positions. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Tail end? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tail end. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Commissioner 16 Nicholson? 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Same thing; I'll 18 talk at the end of the meeting. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: How about you, Commissioner 20 Baldwin? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do have one comment. 22 We had a -- went to a dinner Saturday night for -- the 23 appreciation dinner for the ag people, and I'll just touch 24 on it; I know you probably were going to comment as well. 25 But, once again, the -- the agricultural young people and 1-12-03 17 1 folks of our community are just the salt of the earth. You 2 know, they're the -- they're the people that -- that do well 3 in life. And I'm not saying other people don't, but those 4 are the kind of folks that you can count on as good 5 neighbors, to do the things that -- that some of us don't 6 like to do, and they are hardworking people. And being at 7 that dinner just -- it just reminded me of how solid 8 neighbors these folks are. Don't know -- don't know -- did 9 any of you get a count of how many people were there? 10 Couple of hundred? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, easily that, 12 yeah. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Couple of hundred, 200 14 or 300 folks. And -- and I understand the numbers were 15 down. But, anyway, appreciation dinner for 4-H and FFA 16 people, and it was very nice, and I'm thankful that I got to 17 go. That's all. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, if I may go back, 19 one of my comments I would like to -- mainly because we have 20 a large group here today; you know, it's more for the 21 public. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll let you slide in out of 23 order. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Slide in out of order? I 25 had -- went to a breakfast at Schreiner University one day 1-12-03 18 1 last week, and many of you, if you live in the city of 2 Kerrville and get cable, will probably see a new advertising 3 campaign by Schreiner University that some people made 4 different comments -- some like it, some hate it. Some 5 people are disgusted by it. But I want to, you know, 6 just -- I want to bring up a couple of key points about 7 their campaign. And I think it's a great campaign; I think 8 they're doing the right thing. They've done a lot of 9 studies at Schreiner, and they realize they have got to get 10 their enrollment up to 1,100, 1,200, somewhere in that 11 range. They've done a bunch of surveys, basically focus 12 groups, and it is not a well-known university, and they're 13 trying to correct that. The Board of Trustees has gone on 14 this endeavor, and those -- the commercials you see, while 15 they're -- you know, to me they're somewhat entertaining; 16 there interesting, unusual. They're targeted at 16- to 17 17-year-olds; they're not targeted at anyone in this room 18 today. And they're trying to get high school students that 19 are going to -- thinking of going to college to at least 20 understand -- you know, know the name Schreiner University, 21 add it to their list of potential schools. Those 22 commercials are being played in Kerrville and primarily in 23 San Antonio. 24 The initial response has been Schreiner has 25 had a doubling of application requests in the first nine 1-12-03 19 1 days of that advertising campaign, and a lot of web site 2 interest, a lot of other information. So, you know, while 3 they're -- you kind of look at them -- what are those 4 commercials? What do they have to do with Schreiner 5 University? Is that the image Schreiner University wants? 6 That's not the intent. They're trying to get 16- to 7 17-year-old kids interested in going to college, and 8 specifically Schreiner. And I think, if you look at it from 9 that point of view, the commercials make a little bit more 10 sense. If you have any other questions, Schreiner is very 11 happy to talk to anyone about it, because it is an unusual 12 campaign; it's kind of an ice breaking-type campaign -- 13 advertising campaign from any university in the nation. And 14 Dr. Summerlin over there will be glad to discuss, I think, 15 with anyone in the public. But it's a -- their publicity -- 16 the reason I was at a breakfast is they tried to get every 17 community leader there and to get the word out that, hey, 18 you know, there's a reason for this campaign. And if you 19 haven't seen them, they're quite entertaining. You should 20 look for them. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Clever. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. I, too, had the 23 privilege of going to that dinner this past Saturday 24 evening, and by way of reminder to you folks, there is stock 25 show activity going on in this county from now until the end 1-12-03 20 1 of next week. They've got various schools having shows; 2 West Kerr, Center Point, Comfort, Hunt, Ingram, the 3 K.I.S.D., and all of those then come forward and will be 4 consolidated in the big district show, which runs the latter 5 part of next week, and we invite y'all to come out and 6 observe and watch what these young people do. Like 7 Commissioner Baldwin says, it's always a joy to watch these 8 young people put out their efforts on these animals, and to 9 learn the life skills that they learn in that process. 10 It's -- it's really a joy. I realize that not everyone in 11 the county is interested in agricultural pursuits or have 12 that as part of their economic base, but I -- I can tell you 13 that I do not recall a single child that appears in my 14 juvenile court -- that has appeared in my juvenile court, as 15 having been involved with 4-H or FFA or these ag programs. 16 So, my point is that it's a very worthwhile pursuit. It's 17 not limited to agriculture. 4-H teaches a lot of other life 18 skills and leadership skills, and I -- I'm really impressed 19 by the work that they do, and I encourage you to support 20 them and would hope that -- hope that you would, and that 21 our young people continue to take advantage of it. Thank 22 you. 23 We'll move into a timed item on the agenda; 24 we're running a little bit late for it. That is Item 1 -- 25 Item 3 on the consideration agenda, which was set for 1-12-03 21 1 9:15 -- I apologize; we're running a little late -- that 2 being consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 3 authorize Kerr County Environmental Health Department to 4 file a grant application with AACOG for funding under the 5 Fiscal Year 2004 Regional Solid Waste Grants Program to 6 expand our existing Solid Waste Program to include household 7 hazardous waste, collection, recycling, reuse, and/or proper 8 disposal. Commissioner Williams. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Judge. I 10 guess it's fairly appropriate that we take up this topic 11 this morning, after hearing from the folks out in west Kerr 12 about some of their solid waste problems. And, whether they 13 want to acknowledge it or not, they're not unique to their 14 area of the county. We have -- this problem pops up from 15 time to time in various areas of the county, and it's always 16 disheartening to see how our beautiful landscape can be 17 despoiled by people who either have no self-respect or 18 respect for their neighbors. Having said that, we have in 19 front of the Court today an opportunity to file an 20 application for some solid -- solid waste grant money which 21 is available through AACOG this year. I've asked our 22 Environmental Health Department head, Miguel Arreola, to 23 work up this application and to figure out how we could 24 become involved to a larger extent in the solid -- hazardous 25 solid waste cleanup program. And this particular grant that 1-12-03 22 1 we would seek to acquire deals with household hazardous 2 waste, but it's broader than the title itself may -- may 3 suggest. 4 Now, I'm going to ask Miguel to do some 5 talking about the stat -- the nature of the application and 6 what it entails and what we would propose. On Friday of 7 last week, was it, or Thursday, he ran into what we think is 8 a snag -- what they thought was a snag, and he's going to 9 tell us about it. I don't think it's a snag, except that 10 we're probably not going to make the 10 o'clock deadline 11 today. But it will give me the opportunity to argue it 12 forthwith face-to-face during the County Judges' -- Rural 13 Judges' meeting and the Board of Directors, because I 14 believe the information -- my interpretation is that the 15 information that was given to Miguel about repeat grant 16 applications is incorrect, so we're going to proceed. 17 Miguel, would you like to tell the Court a little bit about 18 this application, what's in it, and what we hope to 19 accomplish? 20 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, sir. Good morning. 21 Basically, we applied to implement a household hazardous 22 waste program, and that is to go through the county and 23 collect old hazardous waste that we believe is polluting 24 ground and water. The -- we presented that application for 25 grant last Thursday, and it was good; they liked everything. 1-12-03 23 1 The only holdup we had was on salaries for whoever will run 2 this program throughout the year. And, basically, that's 3 it, everything that's holding us right now. We have bids 4 from different recyclers and companies that will pick up the 5 waste and will provide us with the containers and everything 6 that we need to -- to go through it. So, it's a very good 7 plan. I think it is needed in the county. It's important 8 to get it going. You might have a copy of the whole 9 application in there, and it's not -- you know, it takes 10 some -- some money to get it going, but it's -- it's 11 possible. I don't know if you have questions on the 12 specifics on that application there. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think we want to 14 get a little bit into the specifics of what we would intend 15 to do, and that's -- that's -- for the benefit of the public 16 and the Court, it's outlined in the objective, and that's to 17 measure the amount of waste disposal collected and the 18 noticeable reduction of hazardous waste on private property, 19 roadways, and landscapes, in addition to cleaner rivers, 20 streams, and tributaries. Geographic area affected that we 21 would propose is West Kerr County, Ingram, Kerrville South, 22 Center Point, and surrounding, and we are proposing to 23 expand the pickup of specific hazardous waste to be 24 collected and disposed, motor oils, batteries, and paints in 25 areas set up in these various areas of the county. Then, 1-12-03 24 1 contract with hazardous waste disposal folks to come and 2 pick up that stuff and/or bring what we can in to the 3 recycling center as an adjunct to what they do in the City 4 of Kerrville, because that's a joint project of the City of 5 Kerrville and Kerr County. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Commissioner? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: While you're on that 9 point, I saw a -- I don't know; I don't think it was 10 intentional, of course. I think you should add east Kerr 11 County. You say Center Point -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Absolutely. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Part of east Kerr County 14 has a pretty dense population outside of Comfort, and this 15 is an issue that's very important to that community, timely 16 for it. It's the Westwood area, but there's some -- I 17 think, you know, they may be able to use the collection 18 point at Center Point, but I think it should be targeted as 19 a specific point. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's fine. Not a 21 problem with that; you're absolutely right. 22 MR. ARREOLA: We outlined some areas in the 23 county that we know are highly populated, and that's what 24 we're going to target. We want to go all over the county, 25 but specifically those areas. 1-12-03 25 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 2 MR. ARREOLA: That we know have problems, and 3 there's a lot of people in there. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We would -- we would 5 propose that in this grant, if we obtain the money, we would 6 be placing approved collection bins at four or maybe even 7 half a dozen key locations throughout the county, and 8 collect the waste and transport it -- transport it to 9 disposal sites and dispose of waste on an as-needed basis. 10 An inspector, who would be an employee of Kerr County, 11 hopefully paid for by the grant, would be responsible for 12 scheduling collections with the various pickup companies, 13 and so forth and so on. Do a public awareness campaign, 14 including hazardous waste collection broadcasts, 15 radio/newspaper brochure medias, and advertising of it, 16 inspections, collection bins, roadways, landscapes, just a 17 whole raft of things that we think we could do with this. 18 Now, the problem that Miguel encountered was there's 19 somebody up at AACOG that said to him that the fact that 20 Kerr County had been the recipient of a grant previously 21 which got our Solid Waste program underway, I believe. 22 Right, Commissioner? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's correct. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Could not be a repeat 25 successor to -- for grant moneys for personnel purposes. I 1-12-03 26 1 disagree with that. I don't read that in any of the 2 guidelines, and I intend to argue it forthwith when I get up 3 there. So, what I'd like for the Court to do this morning, 4 if it is of a mind to do so, would be to approve the grant 5 application. If we, in fact, have missed the deadline and I 6 can't overcome the 10 o'clock today, through my own 7 arguments and forceful presentation, we'll make the next 8 one, which is in May. But we intend to get it; I intend to 9 argue down somebody's point that we cannot achieve or -- or 10 receive funding on a repeat basis. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. If that was a 12 motion. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll make that as a 14 motion. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll second that. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 17 approval of the agenda item to make the grant application. 18 Any questions or comments? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If my memory serves 20 me, the first time we got this particular grant, we got a 21 pickup, a computer, and some salary. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's correct. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And those -- and I've 24 always understood all of those things would be renewed year 25 after year. 1-12-03 27 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They can be renewed 2 on a second-year basis, and I think ours was. There's no 3 guarantee of second-year funding. That was the case, 4 although we received it. That would be the case here. 5 There is no guarantee to second-year funding, but the 6 likelihood is pretty good. What somebody's telling Miguel 7 is that, because we received money for personnel on a 8 different program several years ago, we're not eligible to 9 receive money for personnel again, and I believe that's 10 wrong, and we're going to go after it. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm with you. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Possibly, this is a question 13 for Mr. Arreola. When it was indicated to you that we were 14 not eligible for -- for a grant which would include salary 15 assistance, did -- did they direct your attention to any 16 particular language in the -- in the grant guidelines or 17 anything of that nature? 18 MR. ARREOLA: No, sir. I met with the 19 manager of this department, and she was familiar with the 20 names and the people involved back then. I think it was 21 about four years ago. And she said, well, this person was 22 paid two years, and that's all we can do. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, Judge, there 24 are some -- there are some guidelines, but they do not deal 25 with that point. And what it says is, Personnel funding is 1-12-03 28 1 limited to no more than two years; however, second-year 2 funding is not guaranteed. It goes on to say, Grant funds 3 cannot supplant -- this is where somebody's getting 4 confused -- grant funds cannot supplant existing salaries 5 and be, over time, treated as the same salary. We're not 6 trying to supplant anything; we're trying to add to, and 7 we're going to argue that point. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Commissioner, in your 10 motion, did that include approving the resolution that was 11 in the backup? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir, it did. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And authorize the County 14 Judge to sign same? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir, it does. 16 And we would amend that to "east Kerr County" designation, 17 as opposed to just Center Point. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: -- amendment satisfactory with 21 your second? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or 24 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 25 your right hand. 1-12-03 29 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Miguel, we'll talk 6 after court. 7 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, sir. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll now move on to the next 9 timed item, which was timed for 9:30; we're catching up a 10 little bit here. Item 4, consider and discuss a request for 11 the County Attorney to take action to enjoin violations or 12 threatened violations of law restricting development of 13 property where rainwater runoff rates cause adverse impact 14 to private property or public right-of-way, and recover 15 damages for the County to undertake any construction or 16 other activity -- activity necessary to bring about such 17 compliance. Commissioner Nicholson. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: This item is on the 19 agenda for -- basically, for two reasons; one, a specific 20 reason, and another a little more general than that. And 21 the specific reason is that I'd like to ask the County 22 Attorney to take action to -- to remedy three specific 23 instances where development of property is threatening 24 adjacent property and county roads with -- with rainwater 25 runoff. One place is at the end of Should Bee Road in 1-12-03 30 1 Bumblebee Subdivision. It's the last lot or lots on the 2 right between Should Bee Road and Bumblebee Creek. Someone 3 has begun the development of a building pad there that, as I 4 sat on Should Bee Road in my four-wheel drive pickup truck, 5 the pad is taller than my truck. It's in the floodplain, 6 and the first time we get a significant rain there, it's 7 going to have an adverse impact on adjoining properties and 8 on Bumblebee Creek, on the county road, and on Highway 39. 9 I don't -- I'm not a licensed engineer, and I don't need to 10 be one to know -- know that you can't create that kind of 11 pad in the floodplain. 12 The second one is at the end of Cardinal Hill 13 Road on the right. Cardinal Hill Road runs adjacent to 14 Stablewood Subdivision that's been the subject of -- of 15 rainwater runoff concerns in this court on numerous times in 16 the past. This -- this new development is upstream from 17 that. And, without trespassing, I can't tell how much 18 development is going on, but a lot of dirt's being moved, 19 and it's -- they have not gotten the proper permits to do 20 that kind of development. The third one is at 134 Roland 21 Trail Road in Wood Trails Subdivision. What's happening 22 there is that someone is mining caliche -- I guess that's 23 the proper term. They're taking down a -- a ridge. I've 24 personally observed dump trucks in there and equipment being 25 operated, and they've -- over the past month or so, they've 1-12-03 31 1 removed a significant amount of dirt. Again, without being 2 a licensed engineer, I don't need to be to -- to tell that 3 the first time we have a heavy rain there, at least two 4 local residents and two county roads are going to be 5 adversely impacted because of that unauthorized development. 6 So, I'd like to -- I'd like to make a motion 7 that we ask the County Engineer -- the County Attorney, I'm 8 sorry, to take enforcement on these three specific cases. 9 And I think that on the more general case of, again, clarity 10 about how we enforce floodplain rules and development rules, 11 I think that'll be handled in the workshop that Commissioner 12 Letz proposed. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can you tell me 14 exactly -- I'm willing to second your motion if you'll tell 15 me what your motion is. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The motion is to ask 17 the County Attorney to take action to enjoin violations or 18 threatened violations of laws restricting development of 19 property where rainwater runoff rates cause adverse impact 20 to private property or public right-of-way, and to recover 21 damages for the County to undertake any construction or 22 other activity necessary to bring about compliance, and 23 that, specifically, he look at the -- the unauthorized 24 development on Should Bee Road, at the end of Cardinal Hill 25 Road, and at 134 Roland Trail Road. 1-12-03 32 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think I'd be willing 2 to second a motion that asks -- would ask the County 3 Attorney if we can do these things. I'm not -- I just -- 4 seems to me that we'd be doing some things here we don't 5 have the authority to do. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Commissioner, I have -- I 7 mean, it's a very specific motion. I can't go along with it 8 because I know that we have a -- from a prior -- I have a 9 letter that I -- I knew I remembered, so I went back and 10 researched it. We can't do it; it's against the law for us 11 to do part of that motion. We have a County Attorney 12 opinion that says that we cannot use Road and Bridge 13 Department equipment or funds to repair something not caused 14 by Road and Bridge Department. And what you're saying is 15 that you want us to use Road and Bridge equipment 16 potentially to fix a situation that Road and Bridge had 17 nothing to do with creating, you know, and unless the County 18 Attorney is going to change his opinion, you know, I don't 19 see how we can -- I can't support that. That portion of it, 20 I mean. The rest of it, I think there's things that we can 21 do, but we have to look at -- we have to refer it to the 22 County Attorney, in my opinion, and get a legal opinion 23 before we can do anything. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just a question, 25 Commissioner. Would one of these that you describe -- I 1-12-03 33 1 don't know which -- you said there's a lot of dirt moving 2 going on on a piece of property, which, undoubtedly, if a 3 big rain came along, would create some problems for property 4 owners adjacent. Has anybody inquired as to what that 5 property owner is doing in moving all that dirt? 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I haven't inquired. 7 I don't know who the property owner is, but it's clear to me 8 that he's selling caliche. It's a large commercial 9 operation. But the real issue is whether or not he has the 10 proper permit to move that -- to alter that property. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: He's in violation of 13 E.P.A. rules, in my opinion. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But -- he well may be, 15 but he's -- I don't see -- you know, from my own research in 16 the past, a similar situation down in the Comfort area, the 17 County has no authority over that. E.P.A. may. They may be 18 doing some violations there, and it should be referred to 19 E.P.A. But we can't take action against somebody who's 20 selling dirt, for example, which is basically what the 21 person is doing. That's a -- you know there's some drainage 22 issues and some civil liability issues, and there's all 23 kinds of things that that person may be guilty of, but from 24 my understanding, they're not breaking any county law. And, 25 you know, certainly, that's for the County Attorney to 1-12-03 34 1 determine, not me. But that's just the -- you know, from 2 the letters that we've received, from prior opinions, and 3 also talking with T.C.E.Q., there's -- they're the first 4 person that probably -- if they are making a violation, 5 T.C.E.Q. -- very likely there is a violation there by state 6 law. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Commissioner, what 8 happens here, for example -- a hypothetical case -- if 9 somebody comes in and -- and asks this Court to give 10 permission to create -- develop a new subdivision and 11 disturb the terrain and move dirt, and then they get their 12 engineering work, and our County Engineer endorses it and we 13 approve it, and then after it's approved, they can do 14 whatever they want to without -- without any consequences? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're not talking about 16 a subdivision, though. In the situation you're talking 17 about, they aren't subdivision issues. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: This is a 19 subdivision, 134 Roland Trail. 20 AUDIENCE: Sure is. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If it's in a subdivision, 22 it's a civil issue. It's not -- I mean, we didn't tell them 23 they could do that. It's a -- it's a private property 24 rights issue, and it's also a -- you know, the subdivision 25 -- if it's within a subdivision, look to your rules. I 1-12-03 35 1 mean, the County doesn't have any authority there, I don't 2 think. I mean, based on what the -- I'm just going off of 3 -- and I'll be glad to make copies for everyone -- a 4 September 30, 1992 opinion from David Motley which pretty 5 much addressed that. And that's my -- you know, I -- I'm 6 not saying I don't want to do something. I'm just saying I 7 don't think we legally can do something. And I'm, you know, 8 pretty leery of doing something that we don't have authority 9 under the law behind us. If there's E.P.A. concerns, E.P.A. 10 needs to be brought in. If it's T.C.E.Q. concerns or 11 floodplain -- you know, the first issue, you talked about 12 floodplain there. We have -- you know, I would be very much 13 in favor of referring that to the Floodplain Manager and the 14 County Attorney for resolution of that one. 15 But when you're digging caliche, dirt, or 16 whatever, there are E.P.A. and state law, you know, concerns 17 there. But I don't -- I'm not aware of any county laws, and 18 that's my concern. And the other -- and, you know, a step 19 further, this gets into a -- really not exactly what you're 20 talking about here, but it may be with the one on Cardinal 21 Hill. If he's -- if he's creating a subdivision, then we 22 have authority there, and I would agree that we need to, you 23 know, possibly take action. But if he says he's clearing 24 land and putting in roads for personal use, then I don't 25 think we have any authority. 1-12-03 36 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner, would -- what 2 I'm hearing here is, we've got a question mark about what 3 authority, if any, the County does have with respect to 4 these three situations. And would your motion be better 5 stated by asking the County Attorney to investigate these 6 three situations and determine what enforcement authority, 7 if any, we have -- the County has with respect to them, and 8 then the next step being, once we see what authority we 9 have, to authorize him to go forward? Would that seem to be 10 a -- 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let me ask the 12 County Attorney; he's here. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Mr. Motley? 15 MR. MOTLEY: Yes, sir? 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We're debating a 17 motion that essentially asks the County Attorney to take 18 action to enjoin three landowners from -- from altering 19 their land in a way that -- that harms their neighbors 20 through rainwater runoff. Do you have an opinion as to 21 whether or not you have the authority to enjoin those 22 landowners from make -- from making the modifications that 23 they're making? 24 MR. MOTLEY: I believe we do have the 25 authority. I think the landowners who are benefit -- or who 1-12-03 37 1 are affected by it also have the authority under the Water 2 Code. Basic law in Texas, you cannot use your land in a 3 way -- or cannot modify your land in a way to run more water 4 off onto your neighbor. And, without doing specific 5 research on it, I would think that -- I'm going to say 6 T.N.R.C.C -- it's T.C.E.Q. now -- would have authority. 7 And, typically, when they have authority to act, the County 8 has authority to act on its own. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You're familiar with 10 one of them, I know. It's a piece of property at the end of 11 Cardinal Hill Road. 12 MR. MOTLEY: Yes, sir. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think you've been 14 out there and looked. 15 MR. MOTLEY: Yes, sir, I've -- I've visited 16 that site. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: David? 18 MR. MOTLEY: Yes, sir? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: In September of '92, you 20 wrote an opinion -- it's right here if you want to look at 21 it, refresh your memory -- which said that the County had -- 22 part of the of the motion he made was to use Road and Bridge 23 Department to fix these problems. And that -- and your 24 opinion there stated that it is against the law for the 25 County to use county equipment and funds to fix a problem on 1-12-03 38 1 private property, essentially. 2 MR. MOTLEY: Well, I think -- excuse me -- 3 the key to a lot of that, to the use of county resources, 4 depends on who is primarily benefitting. The County can use 5 county resources if -- if it benefits the county population 6 as a whole, and the fact that a private landowner or private 7 party would benefit to some degree by that improvement or 8 that change doesn't prevent the County from acting, but it 9 depends so much on the facts of each case. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The facts in that 11 situation was a drainage issue in the subdivision across 12 from The Woods, where there was a -- some floods came in. 13 That was one. There was a later one; same issue came up, I 14 think, after the '97 floods, about the County going in and 15 doing drainage work in that subdivision where homes were 16 being flooded. 17 MR. MOTLEY: This one, as I recall, though, 18 had something to do specifically with -- these were, if I'm 19 not mistaken -- was it a private road? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, county roads. 21 MR. MOTLEY: A private subdivision, if I'm 22 not mistaken. Something about this, it seems to me -- and I 23 don't recall it that well from '92, but in this, I think the 24 opinion was it was illegal to expend the county road funds 25 for the purpose of improving the drainage problem, which was 1-12-03 39 1 unrelated to the Road and Bridge work. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 3 MR. MOTLEY: So, again, I think the 4 underlying theory that I expressed a moment ago is how much 5 does the use of the county resources benefit the county in 6 general, and citizens of the county in general? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're saying that if a 8 person clears cedar on some -- on a piece of property, and 9 that causes bare earth to be there, that the County has the 10 authority to take Road and Bridge bulldozers and put in 11 levies or other things to retain silt? 12 MR. MOTLEY: I don't -- I don't know that you 13 could expand what I've said that far. I think a lot of 14 this -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's not an expansion; 16 that's exactly what you said. 17 MR. MOTLEY: Well, no. I'm saying that I 18 think a lot of this is fact-dependent. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is what? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Facts. 21 MR. MOTLEY: I think a lot of it depends on 22 the facts of the case, the very -- the facts of any 23 particular case. And this one was a specific fact situation 24 where it seemed to me if -- again, I'm -- I'm having a hard 25 time recalling back then, you know, 12 years ago or 11 years 1-12-03 40 1 ago, but it seems to me that in this, there was -- it was 2 clear that this was a benefit more to this subdivision than 3 it was to the county. Now, on this business about -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Wait, wait, wait. 5 MR. MOTLEY: -- somebody clears their land -- 6 go ahead. I'm sorry. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Well, you just 8 said the benefit to the county. In the situations that are 9 outlined here, we're talking about benefit -- 10 MR. MOTLEY: I mean, we're trying to figure 11 out how this is different than what we talked about in '97 12 after the flooding in -- Quail Run? Is that the name of 13 that subdivision? It's in Bill's precinct. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: One difference. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, wait a minute. If 16 there was drainage issues done by a developer in a 17 subdivision, or individual in a subdivision, and that caused 18 problems in other parts of the subdivision. And this is the 19 same situation. There's drainage or things are being done 20 in the subdivision affecting other people in the 21 subdivision. How are they different? They're both the 22 same. 23 MR. MOTLEY: Well, I -- again, without having 24 the -- you know, without having specifically researched the 25 facts of the case, I think it's something completely 1-12-03 41 1 different if you are removing nuisance growth, such as cedar 2 and juniper and such as that, to maintain your land, and 3 another thing entirely where you're rerouting water and 4 putting -- you know, doing things like that. That's a 5 completely separate thing. If you're -- if you're changing 6 the character of the land and you're -- you know, just 7 clearing is one thing. Building a subdivision, it seems to 8 me, is entirely different. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're talking about lots 10 of -- 11 MR. MOTLEY: Routine maintenance may not be 12 subject to the same sort of control by the County -- by the 13 State as it would be if you're completely changing the 14 character of the land. Again, I -- you know, I would really 15 have to specifically look at the facts of it, but -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think I'd like to -- I 17 think we need a new opinion from you. What you're saying is 18 totally contrary to what you have in your hands, and that 19 is -- and I'm saying that because there are other 20 subdivisions and things that we have brought to you that I 21 will bring back to you, then, because there are -- what 22 you're saying now is not what you said in '97, and not what 23 your memo from '92 says. Which is fine, if it's a -- maybe 24 the law's changed; I don't know. But I -- you know, either 25 way, I still would be in favor of what the Judge mentioned 1-12-03 42 1 here, as to referring it to the County Attorney to see what 2 authority we have, 'cause I'm not comfortable in making a 3 motion telling him to enjoin someone until he has looked at 4 it. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd like to take it 6 one step further -- excuse me, Commissioner. In 7 anticipation of the County Attorney investigating our 8 authority, which I think is appropriate, I'd like to 9 instruct the County Engineer to go take a look at it and 10 review it and report to the County Attorney and the Court 11 exactly what he has found. 12 MR. MOTLEY: I'd be happy to go view the site 13 with him, the engineer. We can go -- I frequently go make 14 visits, and I'll be happy to go with Frank. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd like to take it 16 one more step further. Why would y'all want to go on 17 somebody's private property? 18 MR. MOTLEY: Depends on where you're talking 19 about. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm talking about 21 somebody's private property, is where I'm talking about. 22 That can -- 23 MR. MOTLEY: We're not going to trespass on 24 somebody's property. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I appreciate 1-12-03 43 1 that. I really don't want a county employee -- now, you're 2 an elected official, but I don't want a county employee just 3 driving on somebody's property. 4 MR. MOTLEY: I've been with Franklin to 5 probably a dozen sites to look at things, and not one time 6 have we ever trespassed on -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm talking about 8 looking at somebody's caliche pit on their private property. 9 That is their private business. 10 MR. MOTLEY: Right. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now -- 12 MR. MOTLEY: And when we go out there, we're 13 not going to walk out and commit a -- you know, and trespass 14 on somebody's land. We're not going to do that. We would 15 get permission from somebody to look at their property, or 16 look at it from an adjoining tract where we had legal 17 authority to be. We've not trespassed on anybody's land. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: I think one of the other 19 things maybe we've lost sight of here is, in the beginning, 20 part of what I heard from Commissioner Nicholson was his 21 concern -- not -- the private property issue was incidental. 22 We've got county roads in these areas, county right-of-way. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Exactly right. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: And if there's adverse impact 25 from changing of the topography of the land and creating 1-12-03 44 1 additional runoff and that sort of thing -- we heard one 2 report here just a few months ago out in this same area 3 where a county road was being severely undermined. 4 AUDIENCE: That's right. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: And I think that's our focus 6 here, is how is this -- how is this activity going to affect 7 our county roads and right-of-ways, and responsibility we 8 have to the public to maintain those roads in a safe and 9 adequate condition. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't disagree with 12 that, but I believe it's similar -- recently we had one on 13 the Guadalupe River where there was a little dam, and people 14 put wood up against the road, and we couldn't even get 15 authority to remove the wood. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's right. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You know. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: They removed it. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think my -- I think 20 my question would be, do we try to address it up front, 21 while someone is developing their property, to say you may 22 or may not -- you're fixing to damage your neighbor's 23 property or county property. You may or may not do -- or do 24 you wait until something actually happens and then file some 25 kind of suit? 1-12-03 45 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let me get back to 2 what I was trying to accomplish today. First, I had -- I 3 did not envision that we would use Road and Bridge resources 4 to remediate any of these three. I envisioned that the 5 County Attorney would get an injunction to stop them from 6 doing what they're doing, and then take whatever steps he 7 needs to to remediate it. For example, on Should Bee Road, 8 I would like to see the Court order them to remove all that 9 material he's put in there. If we have a 5-inch flood 10 tomorrow -- a 5-inch rain, county roads are going to be 11 damaged because of that pad. If they have a 5-inch rain 12 tomorrow, county roads are going to be damaged because of 13 that caliche pit. You don't have to trespass. You can 14 stand on a county road and look up at that caliche pit and 15 know what's going to happen after a 5-inch rain. I can -- I 16 never considered using Road and Bridge manpower or equipment 17 to remediate that. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's what I thought you 19 said. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, I'm quoting 21 some language out of the book, "...and to recover damages 22 for the County to undertake any construction or other 23 activity necessary to bring about compliance." 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're talking about us 25 hiring somebody, not -- Road and Bridge isn't involved. The 1-12-03 46 1 County Attorney's hiring contractors. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Or -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Or if it's necessary that the 4 County take some remedial activity to its roads or 5 right-of-way, and as a result, that's the legal 6 responsibility of someone else, and they've breached that 7 duty, to recover against them for the work done on our road 8 or our right-of-way. Is that what you're referring to, 9 Commissioner? 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes, sir. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, let me make sure I 12 understand here. So, you're now saying that if -- if the 13 10-inch rain comes and does some damage to the county road, 14 then we can do some things? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He's saying -- first he's 16 saying because it may -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Isn't that what you 18 just said, Judge? I mean, I can see that. I can see that 19 if there's some damage done to the county road, then we can 20 sic the County Attorney on him. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But that's after the 22 fact. He's talking about enjoining the action before it 23 happens. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: I think there may be an issue 25 of either of a violation or a threatened violation, which 1-12-03 47 1 he's got both of those covered. But I need -- I think we 2 need to maybe, within those confines, see what our authority 3 -- I think our authority's probably pretty clear as it 4 pertains to our roadways or our right-of-ways. That's not a 5 question. 6 MR. MOTLEY: Can I address that a little bit? 7 I think what Commissioner Baldwin is asking about, I think 8 any sort of an anticipatory remedy that we would seek by way 9 of injunction or temporary restraining order, any time that 10 you're going to seek that sort of relief, I think your 11 success in getting the relief you seek is going to be 12 dependent on how much likelihood you can show that you're 13 going to suffer some damage. If you just go up there and 14 say, "I think it's going to happen," you're not likely to 15 prevail, it seems to me. You may even have to post a bond 16 in order to compensate the people if you're wrong. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What I'm saying is 18 that these three owners are currently in violation of 19 T.C.E.Q. regulations. One of them happens to be in the 20 floodplain, and it's clear to me that we have the authority 21 to require them to get a permit to -- to build that pad in 22 the floodplain. The other two, I don't think they are; I 23 don't know. But they're still in violation of T.C.E.Q. 24 regulations. 25 MR. MOTLEY: I'm more than willing to go out 1-12-03 48 1 and take a look at these areas with Mr. Johnston; I'll be 2 happy to do that, and report to y'all directly or through 3 Franklin or however y'all would like it done. Because, I 4 mean -- you know, this sounds like such a lawyer response, 5 but so many of the things that we look at and do are so 6 dependent upon the facts of that given situation, and to 7 make a general statement is just not very productive, it 8 seems to me. But I will be happy to look at this situation 9 and see what's causing the -- the excessive runoff, and look 10 at the probability. I think that's an engineering function, 11 and our engineer can help us with that. And we'll have to 12 see. We may -- we have in the past consulted hydrologists 13 to see what -- you know, what the likelihood is of damage to 14 a certain type of structure, and we have every right to 15 protect our roads. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess my question is, 17 you know, still, I'm -- I still think it's a good idea to 18 refer all three of these to the County Attorney for an 19 opinion, but I'm not comfortable with basically voting to 20 tell the County Attorney to proceed with an injunction when 21 we could be hit; if he's -- you know, if we're not on good 22 legal ground, we could get sued by those individuals for 23 going after it for an injunction, for damages. I'm not 24 willing to do that until I have, first, a legal opinion that 25 says that we have the authority to go after them. That's 1-12-03 49 1 why I'm -- you know, don't like that injunction language in 2 there right now. I think we need to get the -- I mean, the 3 facts need to be looked at. And before I -- you know, I 4 have not looked into these situations, 'cause they're not in 5 my precinct, but you already mentioned hydrology studies. 6 Well, our County Engineer is not a -- not, you know, 7 licensed in hydrology. That's why we have in the 8 Subdivision Rules that they have to be done by a licensed 9 engineer familiar with that type of work. So, if we're 10 going to have to start basing -- you know, challenging 11 things like rain runoff and all that, I suspect we're going 12 to have to expend funds to hire a hydrologist to prove that 13 there's a potential damage. And -- and before we get to 14 that phase, I want this to come back to the court, because 15 we're talking about expending a substantial amount of money 16 there. And it might be the right thing to do, but I think 17 we need to first get a -- I think we need to go in order. 18 We need to get a County Attorney opinion as to what rights 19 we do have, and then we need to figure out what we need 20 to -- hopefully the County Attorney at that time will tell 21 you what we need to do to proceed. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: If you put yourself 23 in the shoes of a resident of Bumble Bee Hills, for example, 24 it's real clear that someone's building a 10-foot-tall pad 25 in there and it's in the floodplain, and that owner doesn't 1-12-03 50 1 have the necessary permits to do that. And we're telling 2 those owners, We can't help you. Get your money together, 3 go get an attorney, and see if he can help you? And -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's not what I'm 5 saying. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- no damages have 7 been done? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's not what I'm -- 9 you're talking about a floodplain issue there. We do have 10 -- I mean, these are -- a floodplain and a caliche pit are 11 very different. One, we have authority. One -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. If 13 Franklin doesn't address the floodplain issue, we need to 14 have a little visit with him. 15 MR. JOHNSTON: That dirt was placed there in 16 1999, and they received a permit to add the dirt only to the 17 lot. It actually covers three lots in there, and they have 18 a permit to cover that assigned by Charles Wiedenfeld. But 19 it does not cover any additional development. I think now 20 they're coming back and they want an additional permit to 21 build on top of that pile of dirt, and that's -- we wrote a 22 letter -- 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: They're building on 24 top of that right now. 25 MR. JOHNSTON: We wrote a letter saying that 1-12-03 51 1 they had to do a -- you know, an engineering study. We 2 haven't heard back from them. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And, I mean, if that's 4 the case, if they're proceeding, that, to me, is -- I don't 5 have a problem with pursuing that one. But that's separate 6 from the caliche pit, in my mind. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They're in violation, 8 if that's the case. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. And, in this 10 case, I have no problem with them pursuing what you're 11 saying on that instance. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion before the 14 Court. My best information is that we don't have a second. 15 Is that correct, gentlemen? 16 MS. SOVIL: Right. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Is there a second to 18 the motion? 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion will die for lack of a 21 second. Is there another motion to be offered in this 22 matter? It would appear -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion to -- 24 on the issue of the floodplain, to direct the County 25 Attorney and the County Engineer to pursue any legal 1-12-03 52 1 remedies we have to make sure that the individual involved 2 follows the law. 3 MS. FOX: Judge Tinley? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll second that. 5 MS. FOX: Excuse me, sir. May I -- I signed 6 up to speak to that. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I understand. We'll get to 8 you. We have a motion and second on that. Ms. Fox? 9 MS. FOX: Yes, sir. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you wish to come forward 11 and be heard? 12 MS. FOX: Yes. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Please do. 14 MS. FOX: Thank you. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: We've got another gentleman -- 16 we've got a gentleman back there, two or three here yet to 17 go. 18 MS. FOX: Thank you. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: I wasn't going to forget you. 20 MS. FOX: Thank you, sir. With respect -- I 21 don't think that's working. But, with respect to what 22 Commissioner Nicholson just said -- I wasn't sure what he 23 was going to say today when I read the item number, so I 24 wasn't truly sure how to prepare. But, upon listening to 25 all of this, I want to preface what -- I want to thank 1-12-03 53 1 Commissioner Nicholson for bringing this up, but I would 2 have to say -- and I can't believe I'm finding myself saying 3 this -- that I have to agree with Commissioner Letz, that 4 combining these three is much too confusing. However -- and 5 I know nothing about two of these particular instances, but 6 with one, I know very much. And I also have, under the 7 Public Information Act, the entire packet that -- from 8 beginning to end on this particular case from U.G.R.A. I 9 have -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which case is that? 11 MS. FOX: This is the -- the particular 12 instance in Bumble Bee Hills Subdivision, which also affects 13 me, and I am not in Bumble Bee Hills Subdivision. It also 14 affects all of the people of the state of Texas that travel 15 on Highway 39 to and from Hunt, and it also affects the 16 county. Now, in this particular instance, to make a long 17 story short, I have documentation right here that that 18 particular individual on Lots 42 through 44 in Bumble Bee 19 Hills Subdivision in Kerr County is, at this moment, in 20 violation of the Kerr County Floodplain Damage Prevention 21 Order Number 26463, and any amendments that have been made 22 to it. He has, according to a document on October 21st, 23 1999, been told in writing, "This permit does not authorize 24 construction of structure upon fill. Further development of 25 this -- of these properties require submittal of the 1-12-03 54 1 appropriate planning materials." He has -- and then I have 2 another document that says, "If placement of a residence is 3 planned, an additional application for permit will be 4 required." That document is also dated October 26th, 1999. 5 The gentleman did go in to U.G.R.A. on September -- in 6 September of 2003 and start the process for another approval 7 of an application. He has never been granted that approval, 8 neither by U.G.R.A. or by the County, now that it has taken 9 over these responsibilities, and he has already started to 10 build upon that berm. 11 And, therefore, as I read this Flood Damage 12 Prevention Order, under Section E, Violations and Penalties, 13 any person -- blah, blah, blah -- who shall place any fill 14 material is in violation of the detailed statement or 15 drawings submitted and approved hereunder, and shall be 16 guilty of contempt of the Commissioners Court of Kerr 17 County. The Floodplain Administrator is authorized to file 18 with the County Clerk a motion suggesting contempt for 19 failure to comply with these regulations. I have more 20 documentation that I would very much like to submit, if the 21 County Attorney decides to proceed with this, concerning 22 this particular case. Far too thick a pile to get into 23 right now. But, as this is going to affect not only private 24 property, state property, and county property, but lives as 25 well, for any poor, unsuspecting person that might purchase 1-12-03 55 1 this home, if it were ever allowed to be built, and many 2 other sections of your particular floodplain order, as -- 3 one in particular; there is no way in the world that anyone, 4 not even a helicopter, because of all the trees and power 5 lines that are nearby, would ever be able to rescue anyone 6 in that home during the mother flood, because it's going to 7 be completely surrounded by water like an island. And that 8 berm was placed there in a very questionable manner. 9 U.G.R.A. has even conceded that to me, through Mr. Etter, in 10 a private meeting. 11 And I would like to propose in the future -- 12 and I want the County Attorney to also look into this, and 13 then I'll be through for today. Let me find it real quick. 14 Sorry I'm not better prepared. There's a section in here 15 where you can request a revocation of permit. It's Section 16 8H of the Flood Damage Prevention Order. And I would like 17 to submit documentation and proof to the Floodplain 18 Administrator and the County Attorney that possibly the 19 original berm -- have its permit revoked as well, and to 20 have that fill removed once and for all to protect everyone 21 involved. Not just property, but the lives of real, true 22 human beings who are like you and I. Thank you. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Ms. Fox. I assume, 24 if the Floodplain Rules give any ordinary citizen that 25 authority, you're certainly privileged to do that. And the 1-12-03 56 1 Floodplain Administrator is Mr. Franklin Johnston, and, of 2 course, you're acquainted with our County Attorney, and feel 3 free to take any action that you deem that you have the 4 ability to do. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, I believe the 6 motion that's on the table right now does exactly what 7 Ms. Fox is asking. 8 MS. FOX: Yes. I mean, I thought that was 9 your responsibility, and that's why I just read the motion. 10 It's the County's responsibility to take the action. Then, 11 if I'm not happy, I can proceed further civilly. Is that 12 not correct? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: I was referring to the 14 revocation aspect. 15 MS. FOX: Okay, excuse me. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: I had not heard revocation of 17 the existing permit mentioned previously, until you just 18 mentioned it. That's what I was referring to. 19 MS. FOX: Thank you for the clarification. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ms. Fox -- wait, Judge. 21 One thing I want to comment on there. I don't believe the 22 -- I think you -- I mean, I'm not saying you should do this, 23 but I believe you have the ability to pursue it civilly at 24 the same time as bringing it to -- I mean, the Court can 25 handle it from our standpoint, but that doesn't prevent you 1-12-03 57 1 from -- you know, from doing whatever you feel you need to 2 do as well from a civil standpoint. 3 MS. FOX: Okay. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think the County 5 Attorney could include it in his work as well -- his 6 findings as well, revocation of the permit, recommend it. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: What I was meaning to suggest 8 was, if not prohibited, Ms. Fox would have the authority to 9 request -- it says an affected citizen and taxpayer, the 10 County Attorney, and the Floodplain Administrator to pursue 11 that action on behalf of her and all other citizens of this 12 county. Not that she would be required to do it privately 13 and at her own expense; I was not meaning to suggest that at 14 all, but rather, that she could -- if it was not prohibited 15 in the Floodplain Rules, that she could request the County 16 Attorney and Floodplain Administrator to do that. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One final comment on 18 that. I mean, and this is just 'cause there is a large 19 group in the audience. I view floodplain as very different 20 than these other items that were brought under this item. 21 We have a -- there's a lot of consequences, and I think we 22 have a very, you know, I guess, important obligation to the 23 public to make sure that Floodplain Order is followed. And 24 that is something that we do have direct control over, and I 25 think that it's imperative that we -- you know, if there's a 1-12-03 58 1 violation anywhere in the county, I hope that -- and the 2 citizen brings it to our knowledge so -- so we can pursue 3 it, because that's something that we take very seriously, 4 'cause it has, as Ms. Fox said, far-reaching impact to every 5 insurance policy, basically, written in this county. And -- 6 and that -- that certainly affects everybody. So, you know, 7 floodplain, to me, is very, very different than these other 8 two items. That's why I made that motion. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, sir? You had signed up 10 to speak, I believe. Is that correct, sir? 11 MR. VALENTINE: Yes, sir. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Please feel free to come 13 forward and give us your name and address, please. 14 MR. VALENTINE: My name is Mervel Valentine. 15 I live at 140 Roland Trail; I've lived there since 1989. 16 And with Mr. Letz' comment just then, before I address that, 17 in this 1.4 here, it says "threatened violations of law 18 restricting development," it says here. In my case, what 19 I'm here to complain about is a destruction of property. 20 "Where rain runoff rates cause adverse impact to private 21 property." I live in a floodplain. It's documented fact. 22 And my next-door neighbor, which Mr. Nicholson has addressed 23 already, has turned his property into a caliche pit, which I 24 have pictures here to document what I'm saying. In fact -- 25 well, when, in the past, we have had some real decent rains, 1-12-03 59 1 the water -- there's a creek behind me, and you can see it 2 in this picture here; it's dry unless it rains heavy. But 3 when it rains heavy, this water backs up to my back door, 4 probably in the neighborhood of maybe 10 feet, because 5 there's so much runoff it can't run off fast enough. Okay. 6 So, with that being said, this material that my neighbor has 7 decided to sell -- and he's told me he sells this material, 8 but he wouldn't ever tell me how much -- for how much. 9 Disregards my well-being, my property value or anything 10 else, and continues to destroy his property, which I have 11 pictures here to prove it. And, besides, a neighbor of mine 12 back there earlier said about beer cans, trash, and 13 everything else. I've got a picture of his beer garden and 14 trash pit in his yard. 15 So, I'm here to address this issue about him 16 removing this caliche, and in the event of a heavy rain, it 17 will come down and it will flood my home. So, some -- 18 something's got to stop somewhere. Somebody's got to get 19 behind the wheel of the bus and drive this thing so that 20 people -- residents of Kerr County are not in jeopardy by 21 people who disregard the law. Like one neighbor said that, 22 "If you come on my property, I'll shoot you." That's 23 nonsense. We citizens need to be protected from people that 24 don't follow the law. And if we can't get people to address 25 this issue and help us follow the law, where do we go then? 1-12-03 60 1 Vigilante? No, no, no, we don't want to do that. So, we 2 need the law to protect the law-abiding citizen and get 3 after these violators, regardless of the votes or anything 4 else. This is important to the homeowners and property 5 owners of all Kerr County, and every -- throughout the state 6 of Texas. 7 AUDIENCE: Amen. 8 MR. VALENTINE: Thank you. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. We appreciate 10 you being here today. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just -- if I may make a 12 comment about that, is that I agree totally, and that's why 13 I've asked that it go to the County Attorney. Because, if 14 the law says that we have the authority, we can pursue it, 15 but I'm not going to just because we think we have the 16 authority, or if we may have the authority. I think we need 17 to base our acts on the law, and if we legally have the 18 right to do it, I'm in favor of doing it. But this is -- 19 you know, this is different than what I have been told by 20 our County Attorney previously, as I stated it showed in 21 this letter. He's saying now, "Well, we may have 22 authority." Well, if that's the case, I've asked him -- or 23 hopefully we'll get to the point of asking him for a new 24 opinion as to what authority we do have in this area, and if 25 we do, we will certainly pursue it. 1-12-03 61 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, ma'am? 2 MS. JENTSCH: Yes. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Come forward, if you would, 4 please. I realize you've been forward once before, but -- 5 MS. JENTSCH: This is rather nerve-wracking 6 for me, again. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: You did great the last time. 8 Just tell us what's on your mind. 9 MS. JENTSCH: I'd just like to -- you said 10 that you would go next door or you could look at it from the 11 neighbor's -- you can see it from the highway. The scar is 12 so large that it's actually ugly; it looks -- you know how 13 they blow up to make the road through -- the highway? It's 14 beginning to resemble that. And this poor man lives daily, 15 and this man is bringing trucks in and he pays them to take 16 it off, the caliche pits, from a neighborhood. I just -- 17 please, please, try and help us. You're our last chance. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Please come forward, if you 19 would, sir. Give us your name and address. 20 MR. BROWN: Jim Brown, 409 Wood Trail. 21 Especially Commissioner Baldwin and this gentleman. 22 Commissioner, when we say "caliche pit," it obviously has a 23 broad definition. This is a mountain he's taking down, and 24 it's 3 to 5 foot deep, and Mr. Valentine lives below down on 25 Wood -- on Roland Trail. He's digging this -- the mountain 1-12-03 62 1 out. It's not a pit -- or there's a pit down below it, but 2 he's talking off the whole mountain. You can see it from 3 Interstate 10, which is a mile or two away. It's a horrible 4 scar in the -- and if you need to go out there and take a 5 look, and that would -- that would solve a lot of this, if 6 you could go and just see the area. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think the 8 question -- now, I don't disagree with you in any way. I 9 don't know how big it is. I want to come look at it, but I 10 think the question is -- is not whether we want to do 11 something about it, but my question is, what authority do we 12 have? That's -- what does the law say? 13 MR. BROWN: I don't -- I'm not arguing with 14 you. We're just appealing to you. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure. 16 MR. BROWN: And we're not after -- 17 particularly trying to isolate any of these people and get 18 them in -- in trouble or anything like that. We're just -- 19 we're -- there's 15 or 20 of us here from Wood Trail that 20 are concerned citizens about our property. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure. 22 MR. BROWN: And our subdivision. And 23 we're -- we are -- you know, where is -- where is the help 24 from the County about the people that are in the county? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Well, I know. 1-12-03 63 1 MR. BROWN: Taxpayers are out there that are 2 trying to do a good job, that are obeying -- Mr. Valentine 3 alluded to -- that are obeying the law, and we are being 4 infringed upon by people who couldn't care less. And that's 5 all we're asking, is -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're talking about 7 the trash issue? Yes, there is laws to address that. We 8 can address the trash issues. 9 MR. BROWN: Okay, that's fine. But we -- 10 we're also concerned for our neighbor. If it affects him, 11 it affects the whole neighborhood. And he -- if you -- if 12 you'll just look at that situation -- we appreciate 13 Mr. Nicholson; he's been out there. He has the benefit of 14 seeing what that looks like. And that's why he's passionate 15 about it, and we are too. Thank you very much. I 16 appreciate the extra time. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: You bet. Thank you, Mr. 18 Brown. Anyone else that -- I have some other individuals 19 who have signed participation forms. Ms. Fearon? Did you 20 wish to speak, or has this pretty much been fleshed out? 21 MS. FEARON: I'm here to support everything 22 that the rest of the people in my subdivision said. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All right, thank you. You're 24 out in Wood Trail? 25 MS. FEARON: They said it much better than I 1-12-03 64 1 could. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: And you're in Wood Trail 3 Subdivision? 4 MS. FEARON: I'm in Wood Trails Subdivision. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Linda Brown? 6 MS. BROWN: Yes, I'm also here to support 7 them. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. You're in Wood 9 Trails also, and -- and you want to echo their comments? 10 MS. BROWN: I certainly do. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. And Ms. Craigen. 12 Yes, ma'am? 13 MS. CRAIGEN: I'm from Wood Trails too, and 14 I'm here to support the rest of the additions. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: If any of you individuals 16 would like to come forward and offer comments of your own, I 17 want you to feel free to do so. If -- if it's a matter of 18 just general support, as you've expressed, that's fine too, 19 but I want you to feel free to come forward and offer your 20 own comments if you desire. Is there anyone else that wants 21 to be heard on this particular issue that Commissioner 22 Nicholson has raised? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: It's not an issue; it's 25 actually more than one issue. But even though you may not 1-12-03 65 1 have filled out a participation form, I want you to have the 2 privilege of coming forward and being heard, if you desire. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, we have a motion 4 on the table, and I'm going to call the question on that 5 motion, because we're way -- we're talking about a different 6 subdivision than the motion's about. And, I mean, I have -- 7 I'd love to go back and talk to the people in Wood Trails, 8 but I have a motion related to Bumble Bee Hills; I think we 9 need to deal with that before we go on to other -- 'cause 10 there's two other items that I have no problem with 11 continuing to discuss, but I'd like to try to dispense with 12 one, so I'll call the question. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree, and it's a 14 floodplain issue. We'll talk about the other in a second. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 16 comments on the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify 17 by raising your right hand. 18 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Is 22 there any further motions to be offered in connection with 23 this particular agenda item? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I think maybe 25 the sense of all this -- excuse me for jumping in, 1-12-03 66 1 Commissioner. We've talked about what we think we'd like to 2 know, which is more about what the law says, and have some 3 realtime assessment of the problem and a report back from 4 the County Attorney and the County Engineer as to exactly 5 what is out there and what is the law -- what does the law 6 say we can or cannot do. With that having been said, I 7 would offer a motion that the Court instruct the County 8 Attorney and the County Engineer to investigate all aspects 9 of this with respect to the law and the full circumstances 10 and report back to the Court at its next meeting as to what 11 our remedies may or may not be. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're referring to the 13 specific items? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The other two items 15 that we have not dealt with this morning. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I second the motion. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Any 18 further question or discussion? 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Discussion. I hope 20 it works out that in the next Commissioners Court meeting, 21 we'll have the information we need to make the correct 22 decision. It seems to me that time is on the side of the 23 violators in these kind of instances, and both of these -- 24 these developments in question have been going on for a 25 long, long time, so I'd like to bring it to some kind of 1-12-03 67 1 conclusion this month. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 3 comment? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 4 your right hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, I have one other 10 comment. This is, I guess, more related to the people from 11 Wood Trail Subdivision, and I -- from -- I thought that I 12 heard that the caliche pit is in that subdivision. And if 13 it is in the subdivision, you might look to your association 14 rules, 'cause those have a lot more authority usually than 15 the County does. And if they are not -- don't address this 16 issue right now, such as running -- in a lot of them, you 17 can't run businesses in them and can't do various 18 operations. Most of those have a mechanism that, through a 19 majority vote, you can change those rules, and that is 20 another option to look at. And if it sounds like, based 21 upon the number of people that seem to be here from Wood 22 Trails, that may be something that, if everyone was willing 23 to, you know, get together, that may be a way to basically 24 get that -- those people that are not, you know, living in 25 a -- not taking care of their property -- probably that's 1-12-03 68 1 the best way to phrase it -- you know, there's a way to do 2 it, because they can be -- you know, most of the subdivision 3 rules can be modified. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: We have another timed item -- 5 two more timed items, actually, set for 10:00. We're 6 running a bit behind on those. I will call the -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, excuse me. You 8 have a gentleman that's wanting to talk. I don't believe I 9 was finished talking on that item. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, my apologies, 11 Commissioner. I -- do you have another motion you wish to 12 offer in connection with this? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, but I believe I want 14 to hear from the public. There's a gentleman who was 15 raising his hand to talk on that; I would like to hear from 16 the public before we move on. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: I didn't see the gentleman 18 raise his hand. My apologies, sir. Yes, sir? Please come 19 forward. 20 MR. VALENTINE: In response to what you just 21 said about the homeowners restrictions, covenants, 22 they're virtually useless at Wood Trail Subdivision, what 23 I'm trying to say. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 25 MR. VALENTINE: That's why we're here. We 1-12-03 69 1 didn't want to waste your time on Wood Trail Subdivision 2 problems, but we had no recourse, so that's why we come to 3 County Commissioners to seek your help, because our 4 restrictions are -- for lack of a better word, sterile. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Worthless? 6 MR. VALENTINE: Worthless. And so that's why 7 we're here. Thank you, sirs. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you have anything else you 9 wish to offer, Commissioner Letz? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My only question would be 11 to make sure that the County Engineer and the County 12 Attorney understand the charge that -- understand the motion 13 from Commissioner Williams to come back and give us a 14 definite answer at our next meeting as to what the legal 15 authority is of this Court to pursue those two matters. 16 MR. MOTLEY: And you said the one on Should 17 Bee Road? That was in question, right? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The one on Should Bee 19 Road, as I understand it, and the one on Cardinal Hill Road. 20 Are those two correct? And have an answer for us by the 21 next Commissioners Court meeting. 22 MR. MOTLEY: So, these are two -- the two 23 items that you're talking about? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. And then there's 25 another one to pursue, the one on -- the floodplain issue. 1-12-03 70 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's separate. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Floodplain's a separate 3 issue. 4 MR. MOTLEY: Need a motion to do the 5 floodplain; is that what you're saying to me? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There were two 7 motions. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One motion is to pursue 9 the floodplain violation, and that's immediate, for you to 10 -- and that is, if there is a violation -- 11 MR. MOTLEY: I understand. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- do whatever is 13 necessary to stop the violation. And the other one is to 14 review the situation on Cardinal Hill -- I'm just -- I 15 misspoke. It's Cardinal Hill and Roland Trail, those two, 16 and come back at our next court with what authority the 17 County has to remedy those situations. 18 MR. MOTLEY: That'll be fine. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, thank you. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else, Commissioner? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Nope, that's it. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. We have two timed 23 items set for 10 o'clock. At this time, we will recess the 24 Commissioners Court meeting and convene and open a public 25 hearing for the alternate plat process of Lot 83 and 84 in 1-12-03 71 1 Northwest Hills, located in Precinct 1. 2 (The regular Commissioners Court meeting was closed at 10:27 a.m., and a public hearing 3 was held in open court, as follows:) 4 P U B L I C H E A R I N G 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there any member of the 6 public that wishes to be heard in connection with the 7 alternate plat process of Lot 83 and 84 in Northwest Hills 8 located in Precinct 1 of Kerr County? Any member that 9 wishes to be heard? 10 (No response.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Hearing none, I will close the 12 public hearing for the alternate plat process of Lot 83 and 13 84, Northwest Hills. 14 (The public hearing was concluded at 10:28 a.m., and the regular Commissioners Court 15 meeting was reopened.) 16 - - - - - - - - - - 17 JUDGE TINLEY: And I will reconvene the 18 Commissioners Court meeting, and now move to Item 8, which 19 is the opening of annual bids for equipment by-the-hour for 20 paving aggregate, asphalt emulsions, corrugated metal pipe, 21 black base, Type AA, cold mix, Type CC, and road base 22 material, and consider awarding those bids. Road and 23 Bridge? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You jumped one. 1-12-03 72 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- don't we need to 2 take action on 1.7? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: We can come back to that. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Want me to assist? If I 5 don't cut my finger off. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Better yet, don't cut mine 7 off. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We can't take a 9 recess for a band-aid. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Let's see if we can get 11 these in some order. Maybe they are in order. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Need to get a hog 13 board to put up here between you two? 14 (Discussion off the record.) 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Once again, it appears 16 there's a lot of interest in doing business with the county. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Because we pay our 18 bills on time. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We pay our bills, period. 20 MR. ODOM: Let's hope that's good for us. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you for your patience. 22 For the record, we have had presented for us this morning 23 sealed bids as follows: Base material from Wheatcraft, 24 Incorporated. Base material from Lucky 3 Materials. Paving 25 aggregates from Drymala Sand & Gravel. 1-12-03 73 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: None of the base 2 material's coming out of this subdivision we just got 3 through talking about, is it? (Laughter.) 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would be a fine 5 kettle of fish. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Be sure and get the 7 address of the -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Paving aggregate, asphalt 9 emulsion oil, corrugated metal pipe, road base material, 10 black base Type AA, and cold mix Type CC -- well, 11 correction, we don't have bids for all of that. Let me -- 12 base material from Martin Marietta Materials. 13 MR. ODOM: Judge? Do you not have to call 14 out that number? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know if he 16 does or not. We always have, but -- 17 MR. ODOM: Always have; that's what I'm 18 saying. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: I'll be happy to. 20 MR. JOHNSTON: I think that's how we 21 advertise it; it will be opened and read aloud. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go back to the 24 beginning, then, and I'll just start over. First one, base 25 material from Wheatcraft, Inc.: Grade 1, 1 3/4-inch down, 1-12-03 74 1 5.50 a ton. Grade 1, 3/4-inch down is 6.50 a ton. 2 The base material bid from Lucky 3 Materials: 3 f.o.b. supplier's plant, Grade 1, 4.20 a ton. I believe 4 that's 20 -- looks like it's been written over; appears to 5 be 4.20. Grade 2 is 4.20 a ton also. f.o.b. Kerr County, 6 Comfort at Wilson Creek/Westwood, Grade 1, 7.20 a ton; Grade 7 2, 7.20 a ton. 8 Paving aggregates bid from Drymala Sand & 9 Gravel: Trap rock, Type A, Grade 4, 6.90 a ton. Trap rock, 10 Type A, Grade 5, $6 a ton. 11 Bid for base materials from Martin Marietta 12 Materials: f.o.b. supplier's plant, Grade 1, $10 a ton; 13 Grade 2, $9 a ton. f.o.b. Kerr County, Grade 1, 8.84 a ton; 14 Grade 2, 8.59 a ton. 15 Corrugated metal pipe bid from Contech 16 Construction Products, Inc.: 15-inch arch, 7.20 a linear 17 foot; 18-inch arch, 8.50 a linear foot; 24-inch arch, 8 -- 18 or 11.20 a linear foot; 30-inch arch, 13.90 a linear foot. 19 15-inch arch coupling band, $9 each; 18-inch coupling band, 20 arched, 10.60 each; 24-inch coupling band, arched, $14 each; 21 30-inch coupling band, 17.35 each. 22 Equipment with operator by-the-hour from 23 MPB, Inc.: Cat D-6M, $75 an hour; a Cat 613B, 75 an hour; a 24 Cat 12G grader, 75 an hour; 930 loader Cat, IT-28, looks 25 like, $65 an hour; a Tampo roller, $55 an hour; an Ingram 1-12-03 75 1 roller, $55 an hour; an International water truck, $50 an 2 hour. 3 Equipment with operator by-the-hour submitted 4 by Edmond Jenschke: D-6M Cat dozer, 105 an hour; 613C Cat 5 scraper, 100 an hour; 12G Cat grader, 76 an hour; a 936 Cat 6 loader, 85 an hour; 563 Cat roller, 75 an hour; an Ingram 7 roller, $60 an hour; water truck, $50 an hour; asphalt 8 distributor, Etnyre, $130 per hour; an Etnyre chip spreader, 9 130 an hour. 10 Base material from Reeh Quarry, L.P.: f.o.b. 11 supplier's plant, Grade 1, 4.10 a ton; Grade 2, 3.95 a ton. 12 f.o.b. Kerr County, 6.75 a ton on Grade 1, and 6.60 on Grade 13 2. 14 Equipment by-the-hour with operator from 15 Schwarz Construction: JD-650G with HD ripper dozer, $70 an 16 hour. An International 412B scraper, $80 an hour. A Cat 17 14E grader, $70 an hour. A Cat 928G loader, $75 an hour. 18 Ingram 8-ton roller, $55 an hour, and a Hyster 10-ton 19 roller, 55 an hour. F-600, 200-gallon (sic) water truck, 20 $55 per hour. 21 Equipment by-the-hour with operator bid from 22 Rocky Hawkins Construction: 613 Cat scraper, $90 per hour. 23 A Cat D-6 dozer, $85 an hour. A 12F Cat motor grader, $75 24 an hour. A 910 Cat loader, $70 an hour. A Vibr.Compac. 25 roller, $65 an hour. A sheepfoot -- looks like X1B 1-12-03 76 1 compacting roller, $65 an hour. 2,500-gallon water truck, 2 $65 an hour. 3 Corrugated metal pipe bid from Walter's 4 Building and Supply: 15-inch arch, 4.85 a linear foot; 5 18-inch arch, 5.82 a linear foot; 24-inch arch, 7.74 a 6 linear foot; 30-inch arch, 9.70 a linear foot. 15-inch 7 coupling band, $7 each; 18-inch coupling band, $8 each; the 8 24-inch coupling band, 11.60 each; and 30-inch coupling 9 band, 14.50 each. 10 Equipment by-the-hour with operator bid from 11 Leo R. (Bobby) Jenschke, Jr. Construction Company: A D7R 12 dozer, 125 an hour. A 621B 20-cubic-yard scraper, 120 an 13 hour. A 140G grader, $85 an hour. A 963C track loader, 125 14 an hour. A 2,000-gallon water truck, $65 an hour. 15 Bid for asphalt -- or for emulsion oil, 16 excuse me, from Gulf States Asphalt Company, LP, Type CRS-2, 17 80 cents a gallon. Type HFRS-2, 80 cents a gallon also. 18 Corrugated metal pipe bid from Wilson 19 Culverts, Incorporated: 15-inch arch, 4.66 a linear foot; 20 18-inch arch, 5.58 a linear foot; 24-inch arch, 7.43 a 21 linear foot; 30-inch arch, 9.30 a linear foot. 15-inch 22 coupling band, 6.99 each; 18-inch coupling band, 8.37 each; 23 24-inch coupling band, 11.14 each; 30-inch coupling band, 24 13.95 each. 25 Bid for emulsion oils from Ergon Asphalt and 1-12-03 77 1 Emulsions: Type CRS-2, .7363 -- 73.63 cents per gallon, 2 delivered. HFRS-2 type, 73.63 cents a gallon, delivered. 3 And AEP-type, 96.51 cents a gallon, delivered. 4 Bid for emulsion oils from Koch, K-o-c-h, 5 Materials Company: Type CRS-2, 90.93 cents a gallon. Type 6 HFRS-2, 86.23 cents a gallon. Type AEP, 106.23 cents per 7 gallon. 8 Bid for paving aggregates from Martin 9 Marietta Materials: Type PB crushed limestone or natural 10 limestone rock asphalt, Grade 4, 24.53 a ton. Base material 11 bid from Martin Marietta Materials, f.o.b. supplier's plant 12 -- correction, strike that. No bid on that. The other bid 13 was for cold mix and cold-laid -- asphalt, I presume. 14 Specifies Item 330, cold mix-cold laid limestone rock 15 asphalt, which is stated to conform to the Texas Highway 16 Department standard specifications, Item 330. The bid of 17 Martin Marietta Materials for this material is, f.o.b. Kerr 18 County, black base, Type AA, 25.53 a ton; cold mix, Type CC, 19 25.53 a ton. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that it? Judge, I 21 have a motion, and after I make that, I would suggest that 22 we let our court reporter rest her hands a few minutes, if 23 we can. But my motion is -- is that we accept these bids 24 and refer them to Leonard Odom for review, and ask him to 25 bring it back on January 26, 2004, for approval. 1-12-03 78 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Any 3 question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify 4 by raising your right hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. At this 9 point, we'll take our mid-morning recess -- a bit late, 10 albeit -- and we'll convene back here at approximately 5 11 after 11:00. 12 (Recess taken from 10:49 a.m. to 11:05 a.m.) 13 - - - - - - - - - - 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's come back to 15 order if we could, please, and we'll resume our 16 Commissioners Court meeting, having gone into recess about 17 15 minutes ago. It's now about 5 minutes after 11:00. 18 Maybe we can get back on track here. Next item, consider 19 and discuss granting authority for the Sheriff's Office to 20 dispose of four cars, those being a '93 Chevrolet, a '95 21 Chevrolet, a '96 Ford, and a '97 Ford. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: These are just the four 23 old cars that we downed after we replaced them with the new 24 cars this year. At this point, I don't even know what 25 they're worth. They've got extremely high mileage on them. 1-12-03 79 1 We have taken the radios out of them, things like that. 2 That's what we've given to the constables for their cars and 3 their radios. And I'm just asking permission to have the 4 authority to go ahead and get rid of them, and then to work 5 with Tommy Tomlinson on what we want to do; whether we want 6 to trade them in, whether we want to take sealed bids on 7 them. I just don't know what they're worth doing, but we 8 would like to have the authority to get rid of them instead 9 of -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is this something that 11 we declare surplus property? 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move we do that. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to 16 declare them surplus, and order them -- authorize the 17 Sheriff to dispose of them. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Correct. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd like to know the 20 route of disposal before we -- hold on a second. I want to 21 know how we're going to dispose of them, whether they're 22 going to be traded in on another vehicle, and if so, what 23 vehicle, what the cost is, and whether they're going to be 24 sold. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, that's what I 1-12-03 80 1 don't know. I don't have a problem coming back to the Court 2 with whatever we can come up with. These cars probably will 3 not bring anything at all, hardly, on a trade-in. Like I 4 said, a lot of times it's not worth that. I don't know. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I know they're not 6 gems in the rough. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't know if we can 8 find a trade-in, you know, that we could trade these in for 9 without having to spend more money also to go along with the 10 trade-in. If that were the best option, of course, I'd come 11 back to the Court before we even considered anything like 12 that, but we would like to have authority to start doing 13 something with these cars. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or 16 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 17 your right hand. 18 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. It was 22 brought to my attention that I missed two more timed items. 23 Let me get back to them. Item 12, review and discuss report 24 by the by Kerr 9-1-1. Commissioner Baldwin, I believe you 25 asked that this item be placed on the agenda. 1-12-03 81 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I did, and I've asked 2 Mr. Amerine, the Executive Director of 9-1-1 to come over 3 and kind of give us an update, and as he's coming to the 4 podium, I'd -- I -- hopefully what he's going to say here is 5 to encourage -- one thing is to encourage the Commissioners 6 Court to ask our constituents to participate in this program 7 so we can wrap it up. Mr. Amerine? 8 MR. AMERINE: Thank you. I'm Bill Amerine, 9 Executive Director for Kerr 9-1-1. Judge Tinley, 10 Commissioners, thank you for having me here today. I wish I 11 could come here -- just a little commentary, first 30 12 seconds of commentary -- with a big grin on my face saying 13 that this last year's efforts resulted in 90, 95 percent 14 response and that this addressing thing is now just a bad 15 dream that's passed, but that's not the reality. I do 16 think, though, I have measured success to report, and I will 17 get into that. And then I'll just make a comment for the 18 press on how I'd like to see the remaining citizens come 19 forward and get them in our system, make sure that we can 20 find them in cases of emergencies. At the end of the year, 21 we managed to get about 5,853 responses from over 14,500 22 mailings. That's about a third of the people that we sent 23 notices to responded. 24 Fortunately, however, the information that we 25 gathered through that process and through our own research 1-12-03 82 1 allowed to us update over 8,900 records in our emergency 2 database, our public safety answering database over at the 3 Kerrville Police Department. To put that into context, at 4 the beginning of this year, we had over 49,000 phone numbers 5 in that 9-1-1 database; only 32,000 had addresses. There 6 were nearly 17,000 that, when people dialed 9-1-1, all we 7 got is a phone number; we didn't get a name or an address. 8 At the end of this effort -- initial effort, it's called, 9 since it's not over -- we've been able to update an 10 additional 9,000, so now we're at 41,000. We still have 11 8,000 phone numbers that we need to identify the owner of 12 those phone numbers and where they live, and if they don't 13 have a physical address, assign one so that they can also 14 benefit from the location information that will save their 15 lives and their property. 16 We are currently in the process of updating 17 the Post Office with this information. They provide, in a 18 cross-reference list -- they're called galley lists or 19 galley sheets -- 24 different mail routes with over 10,000 20 addresses. We have about 50 percent of those to the Post 21 Office, and their process is to take those, update their 22 databases, send out what they call a joint notification 23 letter, which looks like this. And this joint notification 24 letter will be the first time citizens have approval to 25 start using these mailing addresses. There's been a lot of 1-12-03 83 1 confusion, as I was telling Commissioner Baldwin last week, 2 about the mailings we did earlier this year, which were the 3 postcards, as well as the -- I'm missing something here. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm trying to get the 5 air conditioning turned off. 6 MR. AMERINE: I thought somebody was telling 7 me to shut up. (Laughter.) We've heard it before; we don't 8 want to hear it again. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Bill, I know that 10 one. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm the guilty one that was 12 making the motion, but I was -- I was referring to the back 13 of the room, and cut it off. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, constable. 15 MR. AMERINE: I don't want to keep blabbing 16 on if I'm being told to wrap it up. But, these letters will 17 be the first time folks will have explicit permission to 18 start using their new 9-1-1 addresses for their mailing. 19 Unfortunately, we had a lot of -- and I'd rather have this 20 situation than people who don't care. We had a lot of 21 enthusiastic citizens that changed their mailing addresses 22 before receiving these letters, and it's causing them some 23 mail delivery problems, and 9-1-1 does apologize for any 24 confusion our notices caused in that respect. We hope to 25 have those remaining cross-referenced lists to the Post 1-12-03 84 1 Office by the end of this week. Cindy Guerrero out of San 2 Antonio -- their process takes two to three weeks to get 3 notices updated and the letters mailed out. The first 4 letters were mailed out last week, or in the process of 5 being mailed out to Ingram, Hunt, and some of the west 6 county areas. Center Point, Kerrville, and Comfort, 7 Mountain Home, those should be being mailed out within the 8 next two weeks, so we should have most of the folks who have 9 new physical addresses that receive mail at the residence, 10 we should have letters in their hands within three weeks. 11 One of the other things that we've promised 12 to do at 9-1-1 is provide cross-reference lists of the old 13 road names versus the new road names, and we've decided to 14 go first-class on First Responder map books, so we're 15 contracting with a local mapping book firm to produce some 16 colored maps, good cross-references for all of our public 17 safety officials, volunteer fire departments, Kerrville 18 Police Department, all the First Responders. Those are 19 going to take about three months to produce, so we've 20 provided cross-reference lists that show the old road name, 21 the new road name, and clip maps to the public safety 22 officials so that they'll have something to go on now at the 23 beginning of this year. Some of the other things -- new 24 partnerships that we've developed to this process, Paula 25 Rector came to me and said, "I have no idea how to mail out 1-12-03 85 1 my voters registration cards, since you're changing 2 everybody's address. Can you help me out?" And we provided 3 her with a C.D. that shows all the new addresses and the old 4 addresses so that they can appropriately send out those 5 notices, and voting will occur as it should when we come 6 around to election time later on this year. 7 As I -- as I can see it, the only unresolved 8 issue that we have is getting those remaining 8,000 people 9 to respond. I spoke this morning at the breakfast, Rotary 10 Club, and one of the things -- I'm kind of changing my 11 propaganda spiel now. Instead of saying this is in 12 everybody's best interest to respond and this is going to 13 save lives, I'm starting to look for -- developing advocates 14 for this process that understand what 9-1-1 is, understand 15 how it can save your life, and when you hear somebody 16 badmouth what we're trying to accomplish, I want to you step 17 on their toes, look them eye-to-eye and try to educate them 18 that this will save lives. There are still people that 19 believe out there that they don't need us. They don't need 20 no stinking 9-1-1; if they are sick, they'll drive 21 themselves to the hospital. If they're ill, they'll call in 22 and they'll explain to somebody where they live. That's 23 just not reality, and it's dangerous. 24 The reality is that more than 20 percent of 25 our calls are hang-ups, and that people are either unable to 1-12-03 86 1 or prevented from identifying who they are or where they 2 live. And if we don't have good, accurate, complete 3 information in our 9-1-1 database, properties will -- will 4 be destroyed and people will lose their lives or be injured. 5 So, I can't say it any more dramatic than that. I know 6 that's kind of melodramatic, but that's my business, and I 7 get passionate about it. So, all the Commissioners -- and I 8 might add, the Commissioners, in this process in 2003, and 9 the Judges have been outstanding in their support of the 10 9-1-1 office and what we're trying to accomplish, and I 11 can't thank y'all enough. Any questions? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Bill, you made the 13 comment, 8,000 people. Is it 8,000 people or 8,000 phone 14 numbers? 15 MR. AMERINE: 8,000 phone numbers. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, those people may -- 17 or, you know, we have no idea whether there's a second 18 number or computer line or -- 19 MR. AMERINE: No. What it averages out, just 20 in -- just to give you a raw number, is generally, there's 21 1.25 phone numbers per person in the county. I mean, that's 22 the way it works out -- per household, I'm sorry, not per 23 person. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, that's a 25 worst-case -- I mean, 8,000 is -- 1-12-03 87 1 MR. AMERINE: It's probably something less 2 than that. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Whatever the number, 4 Bill, what's Plan B? If you don't get the responses this 5 time that you need? 6 MR. AMERINE: Well, we're -- as I mentioned 7 to Commissioner Baldwin, we're going to reach out and touch 8 these people. We're going to call them and say, "By the 9 way, we're sorry you didn't respond to our initial mailing. 10 We have nothing in the database as far as an address for 11 you. Here's what we have forecasted your address will be 12 during this process. We'd like to you buy a sign or put up 13 your own sign," and what phone numbers -- I mean, it's the 14 same verbal deal that we do right now when people call in, 15 but we're -- instead of waiting, we're going to call these 16 8,000 phone numbers and say, "Who are you? Where do you 17 live? And what can we do to help get your address in the 18 database?" 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Assuming they still 20 meet with resistance, do you assign the number at this point 21 and say, "This is your address"? 22 MR. AMERINE: Well, we do that -- we've done 23 that even with the people who have called in and said, 24 "Well, I don't care what you're going to do. I'm not going 25 to do this." You know, it's that civil disobedience, "I'm 1-12-03 88 1 not going to acknowledge that this is my new address." We 2 still put them in the database that -- we explain to them 3 that if they don't sign their property appropriately, then 4 there will be a disparity between what will show on the 5 9-1-1 screen and what's at their residence. Hopefully, that 6 motivates people to respond appropriately. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Bill, there's a -- 8 MR. AMERINE: There's a second answer to 9 Commissioner Williams' question. The other thing we're 10 doing is, the Post Office has yet created another mailbox 11 pamphlet, and as we fill out these cross-reference lists, 12 the galley sheets, we're putting "not found" on many of 13 those addresses; we don't find that these people have ever 14 called us and responded. So, along with these letters that 15 they're putting in the postbox saying, "Congratulations, the 16 process is complete. Here is your new address." For all 17 those mailbox drops in the county where people have not come 18 forward, they're saying, "Do you exist? Do you use this 19 mailbox? If so, call 9-1-1." So -- well, "Call 792-5911, 20 and please provide information, 'cause we don't have you in 21 the database." And that way, we'll pick up people also 22 through their mail drops. Yes, sir? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's -- you made the 24 comment about -- you know, you really didn't say -- well, 25 anyway, the key there is signage. Is there anything that -- 1-12-03 89 1 where either the 9-1-1 or the County or someone has 2 authority over -- I mean, if the County has adopted signage 3 guidelines and those recommended by 9-1-1, when someone 4 doesn't follow those guidelines, what the recourse is? I 5 mean, is it something the County needs to deal with? And 6 one that came to mind, I noticed this morning on the drive 7 in, there's a red private road sign on Highway 27 that I 8 think just popped up over the weekend. And -- and -- but 9 there are other issues, and several I know of in my 10 precinct, of people that, for whatever reason, they're 11 trying -- decide to put up a different name than the 12 official name. Most of them are private roads. What do we 13 do? 14 MR. AMERINE: Well, what drives the -- the 15 guidelines that drive my operation, the Health and Safety 16 Code, don't have anything specific to addressing, so it 17 certainly wouldn't come from the Health and Safety Code, 18 772. I do know that the City of Kerrville, City of Ingram 19 have ordinances about proper 9-1-1 signs, and that there is 20 a small fine if we respond to a 9-1-1 call and they don't 21 have the appropriate signage up. And, by the way, just 22 clarification for the public and for the media, you don't 23 have to buy our sign. You just have to have the appropriate 24 number signed on your property. You can make your own sign, 25 do whatever you want. A lot of people chisel in the stone, 1-12-03 90 1 whatever. So, I do know the City of Ingram and the City of 2 Kerrville have ordinances and fines associated with not 3 having a proper 9-1-1 sign. I don't know about the county. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: After the County Attorney 5 gets through with all the other requests we've asked him to 6 do, maybe we can ask for a request on this at a future date. 7 Thank you. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Sheriff? 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The one comment I'd like 10 to make, 'cause I even got in a conversation with our guys 11 this morning about it, is the blue number signs that they 12 can get at 9-1-1 is proving to be very important to us. Our 13 guys are using them constantly, and I know the citizens can 14 go down and buy those things. Commissioner 1 was the first 15 one to get one. That's already being commented on a lot, 16 and I would encourage citizens to use that, because now that 17 it's that design, that's what officers are looking for when 18 they're looking for an address, is that color, that design, 19 and it's a nominal fee that 9-1-1 -- 20 MR. AMERINE: $5. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But it's going to be a 22 fabulous -- you know, tremendous help for us to get to these 23 emergency locations, 'cause it's hard to find half of these. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: As soon as you get one 25 person in a rural area to do it, the neighborhood tends to 1-12-03 91 1 do it right away. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We've got large areas on 3 roads that are started, but I would strongly encourage, if 4 they want a quick response, to get those, 'cause it's -- 5 every day we're having places we can't find, and it's 'cause 6 it's not posted. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, Rusty, I think 8 one of the reasons that we're slow on the signage and slow 9 on the response thing is exactly what Bill was saying, is 10 that I don't think people have gotten their minds completely 11 wrapped around what we're doing yet, and what we're doing is 12 trying to save people's lives so that you can respond and 13 our ambulance people and our fire people can respond to a 14 particular point. That's all it's about. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's not about trying to 16 just change people's addresses. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right, exactly. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But out in the county -- 19 city of Kerrville's not bad, but we really have a hard time 20 finding places, and I would encourage it in any way I could 21 possibly do for people to get the signs and do it. It helps 22 us all. 23 MR. AMERINE: I think the County has done 24 their part in this. You know, we went through this process 25 throughout last year, and even into this year, of getting a 1-12-03 92 1 lot of private, non-county maintained roads signed. 'Cause, 2 as we said in early project discussions, without those 3 street signs, the addresses are almost meaningless, because 4 you can't really find those streets. It goes all the way 5 down to the residence; without those residence signs, those 6 numbers, how do the -- how does the Sheriff's Department or 7 First Responders know where the property is? You've got to 8 have that property signed. By the way, the sign process has 9 been, again, a measured success. I don't want to say it's 10 been a total success. We've sold about 1,000 signs out of 11 the 5,000 people that have responded to us. We continue -- 12 we'll continue to sell those signs until people no longer 13 need them, so that's an ongoing process. 14 Now, the only thing that's left undone, other 15 than to address Commissioner Williams' question, how are we 16 going to respond to these remaining numbers and get them in 17 the system, there have been some things that we have decided 18 to put off till this year, and one of them are the mobile 19 home parks. We were able to address -- or confirm 20 addressing for about five out of 42 established mobile home 21 parks. That's the number-one priority for 2004, is to get 22 out to those parks and survey them and get them into our 23 9-1-1 system. For the most part, most of them -- I want to 24 clarify something, 'cause I don't want people to 25 misunderstand. If you have a phone number and you dial 1-12-03 93 1 9-1-1 in Kerr County, your phone call will be answered by 2 consolidated dispatch. Someone will dispatch to your 3 location. What we want to provide for those mobile home 4 parks is a unique address for every lot that a trailer sits 5 in. Most of the trailer parks or mobile home parks now have 6 an address for the entire park, rather than having an 7 individual address, just like a home would in an urban-style 8 addressing. So, that's our goal this year, is to get that 9 done, is to get the rest of those mobile home parks 10 completed. Any other questions? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One question. The -- is 12 there a plan, or have you worked with the phone companies 13 regarding the new phone books? I think new phone books are 14 going to come out in May; I believe they're working on them 15 right now. Are the new addresses going to be reflected in 16 the new phone books, or a year down the road? 17 MR. AMERINE: No, the new addresses won't be 18 in the -- any of the Hill Country or Kerrville, for one 19 simple reason. There's three addresses the phone companies 20 deal with; billing address, physical address, and directory 21 address. And our only charter -- the only thing that 22 they're required by law to do is update the 9-1-1 address, 23 so it feeds into our database. If individuals want to 24 update their directory address, they're going to have to do 25 that themselves. 1-12-03 94 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do that themselves? 2 MR. AMERINE: Right. A lot of people -- it's 3 just like un -- unposted phone numbers. A lot of folks 4 don't want their address posted; they want their number, but 5 not their address, so we don't have the phone companies 6 arbitrarily update every physical address in the directory. 7 That would be against -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They've got the 9 information to do it if they -- 10 MR. AMERINE: Right. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- choose to do it? 12 Okay, thank you. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else for Mr. Amerine? 14 We appreciate you being here today, Mr. Amerine. 15 MR. AMERINE: Thank you. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, Bill. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: The next item was also a timed 18 item. We're a bit tardy, by not quite an hour yet. Item 19 13, review and discuss report by the Kerr County Constables. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, Judge. The 21 reason I did put a time on it is so these guys could come in 22 and be on time, and then get back to work if they wanted to. 23 I just thought it was time that the -- you know, recently 24 the public made an investment in vehicles, and -- and 25 because of that, there's always a lot of questions -- 1-12-03 95 1 inquiries about what our constables are doing. So, I 2 thought that we would just -- off the top of my head, I put 3 together a small list of questions and sent to them, and in 4 a questionnaire form, and asked them to come to fill out -- 5 answer those questions and come back to us so that we could 6 have some dialogue. Now, I've -- I would like to do that 7 some this morning with them over -- over the numbers that 8 they brought back in, but I also wanted to say that I would 9 -- I would like for us to see a monthly reporting from the 10 constables, and that this would be the front door -- or 11 actually, the front porch of that. And maybe we can put our 12 heads together, and you guys have some -- some comments or 13 suggestions of a -- better questions or more information to 14 actually put together a -- for a monthly report form. So -- 15 but, anyway, as of today, I'd like to go through -- I think 16 everyone has -- does everybody have a report from each 17 constable? 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I do. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do. And do you want 20 them -- I don't see that it's really necessary that we ask 21 them to come up individually and have a question and answer. 22 They've provided the information. But, I mean, if you have 23 questions, they are in the room. And -- yes, sir? Go 24 ahead. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I have a question. 1-12-03 96 1 Do all four of these reports cover the same period of time? 2 I think not. Commissioner -- I mean Constable Number 4 3 can't be here today because he's in a school, so he 4 provided -- provided a report, and he says it covers the 5 first three months of this fiscal year. So, my question is, 6 do the other three reports cover the first three months of 7 this fiscal year? One of them appears to cover last year. 8 I'm not sure. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, to be honest 10 with you, I can't answer that either, 'cause I didn't get 11 them till this morning either, and -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't know if 13 they're uniform. I think they're kind of different, but I 14 do have a suggestion that we -- that would help for the 15 future. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We require our J.P.'s 18 to file a monthly report on their activity, and they all do, 19 to the best of my knowledge, and we receive them. There's 20 really no reason -- excuse me -- why the constables couldn't 21 do the same thing. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. I think 23 the -- probably the J.P.'s may be required by law to do 24 that. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 1-12-03 97 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't think the 2 constables are. But, because of the public's investment 3 into it now, I think that it would just be -- you know, the 4 accountability, the accountability factor is -- is a good 5 thing. Now -- 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Mr. Garza -- excuse 7 me. Can I ask a question? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Mr. Garza, does your 10 report cover 2003? Or does it cover -- what? 11 MR. GARZA: It covers from January 1st of 12 2003 to December 31st of this year. And I'd like to have 13 the opportunity -- I welcome the opportunity to come before 14 the Court to explain my figures. I'm very excited about it. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sure. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Come forward, please, 17 Constable Garza. 18 MR. GARZA: Good morning. I'm Angel Garza, 19 constable, and I welcome this opportunity to come before 20 you, the honorable court, to explain my expenditures and how 21 I've been performing my duties since the recent acquisition 22 of my patrol unit and my radio. I can start any moment. 23 Would you like me to start? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Go ahead. 25 MR. GARZA: Okay. At the bottom there, I 1-12-03 98 1 have a list of when I got the vehicle in October, 25 miles. 2 And I have increments of the mileage at, like, close to the 3 end of the month. And on the number of warrants served and 4 service fees collected, you have a report there that I also 5 gave you. Another page there, that explains the amount of 6 moneys. The 4,000 -- I'm sorry, $4,515, the warrant fees 7 and fines collected by me over the last year. See, that 8 page is one of the pages that gives you an assessment of 9 that number of civil citations served and fees collected, 10 208, $10,755. At the bottom there, Commissioners, I have 11 the -- how I broke it down; 95 civil citations at $45 came 12 out to a figure of $4,275. A hundred civil citations from 13 district court subpoenas at $60, $6,120. Okay. The writs 14 served -- writs of execution, writs of sequestration, writs 15 of possession -- at $200 a piece, I served five for the 16 year. And down here at the bottom here, you know, traffic 17 tickets issued, and the warning tickets issued. 18 Since taking office -- or getting the patrol 19 car in October, I did not -- look at the bottom there. I 20 did not receive the radar unit until the -- it was about the 21 10th of November. And from November until December 31st, or 22 a day or so after, that I've issued 80 citations for traffic 23 enforcement. I've collected -- if you see on your second 24 page there, I have the figures broken down there. Page -- 25 disposition between 11/10 of '04 is $5,019. That is actual 1-12-03 99 1 moneys paid back to the County. These are fines collected. 2 That's what I've collected there. Next page I have there is 3 other fees collected. The -- it's called -- the fee is 4 called, I think, Defensive Driving. That's $1,805. The 5 total amount there is $6,824. Warning tickets, I issued 20 6 warning tickets in that period. Basically, it's over a 7 hundred citations that I've issued since taking the -- the 8 patrol car and the radar unit. Which, I might add, is -- 9 when I got the radar unit, I installed it myself; I saved 10 the County about $150 by installing it myself, 'cause I'm 11 very frugal with the money of the County, 'cause it's also 12 my money as a taxpayer. 13 Number of assistance to law enforcement 14 agencies, numerous. But I'd like to -- if you have a 15 moment, I've -- I'll be very brief on two that I can give 16 you an example of. I got a copy -- I assisted in Precinct 2 17 back in December, the P.D., the task force, D.P.S. narcotics 18 had an aggravated -- a warrant for aggravated robbery 19 suspect on Madrona, and I assisted them in -- in carrying 20 out that warrant. They asked me to transport and book the 21 suspect into jail, and I did, assisting other agencies. A 22 couple of weeks later, in December, in Precinct 1, over at 23 Los Cedros subdivision, there was a call out -- P.D. had a 24 vehicle they had stopped and the suspect fled, so there was 25 a call out for other agencies to assist P.D. Sheriff's 1-12-03 100 1 deputies, D.P.S. went to the scene. I also responded, and I 2 was asked by Sergeant Harry Fleming to stay with the vehicle 3 and the location. And subsequently, after that, I made 4 contact with the subject, chased him down after numerous 5 fences and back yards, and captured the suspect and held him 6 for P.D. officers. So, I'm very active in my community. 7 I've always been active, but now, with this patrol unit and 8 my radio, I do a better job. And I just want to have any 9 comments, or anything you'd like to ask me, I'm -- I'm here 10 to -- at your service. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Very good. I wish 12 we'd have had that on film. 13 MR. GARZA: Well, they do -- they probably 14 do. P.D. does have it on film, where I have him on the 15 ground with my gun drawn, everything else, yeah. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Kerr County COPS. 17 MR. GARZA: Constable -- constables. I'm 18 just out here, you know. I've always been active, you know, 19 as far as assistance. You know, any time I could help out, 20 I'm there. You know, I'm not there to interfere in their 21 duties, but I'm there to help them when needed. I did that 22 when I had my little white car, but now -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Does your patrol car 24 run good? Everything's working fine? 25 MR. GARZA: Yes, sir. 1-12-03 101 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are you happy with it 2 and -- 3 MR. GARZA: Very much so, sir. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: People see you out in 5 the community? 6 MR. GARZA: Yes, sir. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And -- 8 MR. GARZA: That's another thing; I'm very 9 visible now in my community. I -- I talk to Commissioner 10 Letz on occasions, you know. 11 MR. MOTLEY: I saw him the other night on the 12 interstate. I mean, he made me slow down, so, I mean -- 13 (Laughter.) You know, I saw him there and I thought it was 14 Rusty, and then I said, no, that's somebody else out there, 15 and I figured out what precinct it was. That's Angel. So, 16 I saw him out there the other night. 17 MR. GARZA: But those are my duties with the 18 patrol car. I'm trying to do more drug interdiction. I had 19 to have drug interdiction training I received through 20 D.P.S., and also through the Council of Governments. I've 21 also -- I also have a basic certification in basic SWAT 22 training. So, I'm out there -- I try and get all the 23 education and training I can, because I want to do the best 24 job I can, and with -- thanks to you and the Commissioners, 25 I'm able to do that more now. 1-12-03 102 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One of the things I'd 2 like to say is that, you know, the way that -- I do talk to 3 Angel quite a bit, and as an example, there's an area where 4 high school kids in Comfort tend to congregate and probably 5 drink beer. Rusty's aware of it, but Rusty has -- he has a 6 larger area; he can't really patrol this a lot. And, you 7 know, he saw a vehicle leave there at a high speed over this 8 past weekend. I think that he can be a -- basically, I look 9 at the constable as a way to -- for the Sheriff to be more 10 effective, 'cause he can spend time, really, out on -- you 11 know, in other areas and where we know there's a little bit 12 of crime, constables can really concentrate right there and 13 really be a big deterrent. And that's what we're -- 14 hopefully, I think, what we're going to achieve, certainly 15 in my precinct, is the deterrence aspect of it. And I think 16 that it allows the Sheriff, then, to concentrate on, you 17 know, other areas in law enforcement. So, I think that -- 18 you know, ideally, hopefully they go where they're working 19 closely together; it's not one against the other or any kind 20 of competition, hopefully. It's just assistance, and I 21 think constables are in a position to assist the other law 22 enforcements, you know, in the different areas. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have another 24 suggestion, Commissioner, if you don't mind. Angel's report 25 is good, but I think he -- he tried to summarize it for an 1-12-03 103 1 entire year, and the other constables may not have 2 understood that that's what was intended. And I don't know 3 whether it was or not. My suggestion would be, rather than 4 to burden the constables with monthly reports, they do 5 quarterly reports for three-quarters, and then an annual 6 summary of all their activities once a year to coincide with 7 our fiscal year, so that we have an idea of what's going on. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Might be. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: In that area, I mean, to 11 me, if they're going to keep track of it, it's no harder to 12 do it monthly than to do it quarterly. But I -- I think I 13 like the -- I like the basic information that Commissioner 14 Baldwin put together. But let's turn it back to the 15 constables; tell them to generate a report that -- you know, 16 come up with their own information. This is a guide. This 17 is kind of what, you know, provides most of what they're 18 doing. There may be something that we're leaving out, but I 19 think a -- you know, I assume -- I think it does need to 20 be -- I mean, from my standpoint, I'd like to see a standard 21 record. That's why I'd like to give it back to the 22 constables and tell them to come up with a report that they 23 agree with that basically answers these questions. Whether 24 you want to modify it doesn't make any difference. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think it's an 1-12-03 104 1 excellent idea. 2 MR. GARZA: If I may -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you a 4 question before you get off. Do you have any problem doing 5 a monthly or quarterly -- 6 MR. GARZA: No, sir. No, sir, I'd welcome 7 it, sir. It's -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good. 9 MR. GARZA: I welcome it. I want to give you 10 a lot of what I've done. And I'd like to clarify, on the 11 traffic tickets, over 100 citations, that's only in 45 days. 12 So, if you look from November 15 to December 31st, that's 45 13 days that I wrote over 100 citations. And, like I said, I 14 brought in over six -- almost $7,000. I want to work for 15 you. I'll work for the citizens. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I know that citation 17 business on the interstate's working. I got a call from a 18 constituent saying, "Does the constable have the right to 19 get out on the interstate and give tickets?" Yes, sir, he 20 does. 21 MR. GARZA: So, that part of the report -- 22 you know, it was for the full year, but as far as the 23 tickets and all that, traffic citations, that's all been 24 just in the last three months. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think you also have to 1-12-03 105 1 look at -- I mean, it's -- you know, certain precincts have 2 a lot of the interstate, and certain don't; you have to look 3 at each precinct. I mean, I think that the -- in my 4 precinct, which is Angel's, there's I-10 and Highway 27; 5 there's two roads, and D.P.S. obviously work those roads. 6 Sheriff's Department's actively on these roads, too. It's a 7 lot easier, in my opinion, for Angel to be working the 8 interstate than Constable Terrill, who's got I don't know 9 how many miles of -- of roads out in west Kerr County. So, 10 I -- you know, tickets are -- are nice and a good judge, I 11 guess, in a way, but that's not the only judge. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. 13 MR. GARZA: Visibility. Try to be visible; 14 that's what I'm trying to do. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I appreciate that effort 16 to get a report, 'cause I think it's a -- provides good 17 information to the public. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Any more questions for 19 Constable Garza? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think we ought to 22 establish the frequency, though, because if we don't 23 establish frequency, then one's going to do it monthly, 24 one's going to do its semi-annually, one's not going to do 25 it. I don't know. 1-12-03 106 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We will, thank you. I 2 just wondered if there's any one of the other constables 3 that wanted to come forward like Angel did and give a 4 report. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Either of you gentlemen have 6 anything additional to offer, over and above what Constable 7 Garza's offered? 8 MR. PICKENS: My report's from January the 9 1st, 2003, till December 31st. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 11 MR. AYALA: Mine as well. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, both the -- 13 MR. PICKENS: For the whole year. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: One and two are -- are '03 15 entirely, okay. Thank you. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How's your cars? 17 That's what's behind this whole thing, is a report to the 18 public on your -- on the vehicle that they have bought for 19 you. Your car doing okay? 20 MR. AYALA: Doing great. It really helps us. 21 Yeah, I've had several comments, "How many of you guys are 22 there out there?" (Laughter.) 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's good. 24 MR. AYALA: You know, visibility is just 25 150 percent better. 1-12-03 107 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Fantastic. Bobby? 2 MR. PICKENS: Other than just a little 3 problem with the battery, it's up and running now. I asked 4 one of these guys to take me over to pick it up. I got a 5 call the other night at 11 o'clock. They said, "I thought 6 you constables cut off at 5 o'clock." I said, "No, we work 7 whenever we want to." So -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's good. 9 MR. PICKENS: -- we're out and about. And, 10 like Angel said, I appreciate the -- your giving us the 11 vehicles, and look forward to working for you this year. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That sounds like it's 13 working, and I'll be back with you. Thank you guys very, 14 very much. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you very much. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You want to do a motion 17 as to the frequency, or do you want to -- how do you want to 18 handle that, Commissioner? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We sure can. I agree 20 with you that I'd like to -- I'd like to see the constables 21 get together and work up your own little form of how you may 22 want to compare it to the -- you know, the J.P.'s. I've 23 been looking at that for a couple weeks. Way too busy, way 24 too much stuff. But if you could shorten it down and use 25 some -- something near what we've done here today. And it 1-12-03 108 1 doesn't have to be exact, of course, but the things that you 2 think that are important to the taxpayers of the county. 3 Yes, Angel? 4 MR. GARZA: I think your form, for me, would 5 be great. I could do this on a monthly basis with the form 6 you gave me. I think that's very good information. I think 7 I would like to follow your form. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's fine. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Convince your colleagues. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: You guys discuss it and come 11 up with something that is uniform amongst you. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, we're going to 13 get to that right this very moment. I'm going to make a 14 motion that we request the constables to do a monthly 15 reporting to the Commissioners Court, and not have to 16 actually make an appearance in here, but to turn in a 17 written report. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you want to make -- 19 when do our reports come? Don't we get them -- aren't we 20 supposed to get them at our first meeting, or both? All 21 through the month? 22 MS. NEMEC: It just -- it depends when they 23 turn them in to us. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Would you accept a 25 little addition to that? 1-12-03 109 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: With an annual 3 summary. One annual summary report. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think that would be 5 good. We need to remind them of that when that's through. 6 And what would be the annual -- 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Come at budget time, 8 so we know what their activity was and what the -- what the 9 dollars are and so forth, and annual summary to coincide 10 with the end of our fiscal year. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Be a part of the 12 budget process, I guess. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To me, I mean, if they 14 are doing a monthly report, why don't they just do a 15 year-to-date every month? That way, it's -- they don't have 16 to go back and calculate it all. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's fine. If they 18 can structure their report that way, that's fine. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: I think that might be helpful 20 for the budget process, too, because we're going to be -- 21 we're going to be involved in the budgeting process several 22 months before the end of the fiscal year, and you can kind 23 of track things if you got a year-to-date. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A YTD is good. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 1-12-03 110 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Any 2 further question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, 3 signify by raising your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Now we'll come back to Item 2, 10 to the Sheriff. Consider and discuss approval of an 11 agreement between Kerr County and -- is that Apprise? 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah, Appris. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Appris, Inc., to provide 14 criminal victim notification services to the citizens and 15 residents of Kerr County. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'd like to start this 17 off with -- by showing a real short clip. This is a program 18 sponsored by the Attorney General's office and approved 19 through the Legislature. It's a grant-type program, but 20 everything is totally funded even in advance of what we'll 21 ask for, which will net Kerr County about $40,000. But the 22 whole -- go ahead and start it, Michael. The whole program 23 is real quick, justifies it, and I'll explain it. 24 (Videotape started.) 25 "A crime has been committed. You are the victim 1-12-03 111 1 of that crime. Maybe you're feeling like have you no control 2 over your life. Someone took it away. You don't feel safe 3 any more. I know how you feel. That's how I felt when it 4 happened to me. But there's a program that can help. It's 5 called VINE. VINE stands for Victim Information and 6 Notification Every day, a free and anonymous telephone service 7 that provides crime victims with two important resources, 8 information and notification. VINE provides information about 9 the offender, information that will help safeguard you and 10 your family, and information that will help as your case 11 progresses. 12 You can call VINE using a toll-free number 13 anytime, 24 hours a day, and VINE will quickly provide you 14 with the most accurate information available about your 15 offender. But even more important, VINE automatically calls 16 and notifies registered victims when an offender has a custody 17 change; for instance, when he or she is released from county 18 jail or state prison. In some cases, you may also be notified 19 of upcoming court and case events. Registration for court 20 notification may require special information or procedures, so 21 check with your victim advocate for more information, and be 22 sure to check your brochure to learn exactly how VINE works 23 for you. VINE is a powerful tool created to help you help 24 yourself, and it's easy to use. First, you need to be 25 registered with VINE in order to receive automated 1-12-03 112 1 notification over the telephone. In some communities, crime 2 victims are automatically" -- 3 (Videotape stopped.) 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I won't play the whole 5 thing for time's sake, but that's the general idea. What it 6 is, it was approved by the 77th Legislature. The money was 7 sent to the office of the Attorney General to get all of 8 Texas signed onto it. Currently, there's 40 states that use 9 it, and two provinces in Canada that use it, and it is just 10 like it says; it's an immediate way for a victim of a crime, 11 especially family violence, to know if that offender is 12 getting out of jail, if he's escaped from jail, when his 13 court date is, if there's a status change, or even if it's 14 somebody that's more serious that went to the penitentiary, 15 they can register and get onto that and find out when his 16 release date's going to be, 'cause we get calls all the 17 time. It's a program totally designed to assist and help 18 victims of crime. 19 I think it's a very worthwhile program, and 20 the thing is, it is fully funded by the office of the 21 Attorney General. The counties have no out-of-pocket costs, 22 no maintenance or user fees. They pay for everything, get 23 it all hooked up, the Legislature does. It ties in with our 24 Software Group computer system, to where that information is 25 automatically taken out of that. It's already being done 1-12-03 113 1 with Software Group; they designed a program to do it. 2 Denton County and a lot of those other ones use it. I think 3 there's 90 counties in Texas right now out of 254 that are 4 signed on to it, and I think it would be very advantageous 5 for us to get signed on to this program, especially since 6 there are no costs at all to us. And it -- it will save our 7 manpower, because the Code of Criminal Procedure states now 8 that any time we release a guy on a family violence-type 9 situation, we're supposed to attempt to notify the victim. 10 Now, there's no consequences if we don't, but we do have 11 jail staff that try and call a number or try and make sure 12 the victim knows that that guy's getting out of jail, and 13 this will save on all that. It does it automatically. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Rusty, do you have any 15 idea about how many victims we have in Kerr County that -- 16 that this affects, or that would participate in this 17 particular program? 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think there's a large 19 number, most -- any of the person crimes they could do. You 20 have -- I know our department probably ends up arresting 21 anywhere from five to ten offenders for family violence a 22 week, okay? So, you're talking -- look at all the other 23 agencies and those offenders, and then the jail has to try 24 and notify these people, plus court dates, kids' -- the 25 advocacy groups have to try and help these people get things 1-12-03 114 1 and all that, protective orders. And I think it's just a 2 fabulous program to get them notified. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What would be the 4 dollar amount of this agreement? 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right at $40,000 to get 6 it totally tied in. That's Software Group's interface part 7 and the computer and everything else with the vendor that 8 was approved by the Attorney General's office. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: If we sign on to this 10 agreement, will that commit us to any obligation for funding 11 in subsequent years out of Kerr County pockets? 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: None. None at all. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is it renewable 14 through the state? 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah, it's renewable 16 every year automatically. Now, the way it's going, as long 17 as the Legislature doesn't cut off the Attorney General's, 18 you know, funding for it. But this has been a demand for 19 20-some-odd years on making sure that victims get notified, 20 and that's why the state added into the Code of Criminal 21 Procedure that we try to notify them. They could see that 22 wasn't working that well with a lot of agencies, so I think 23 that's why the Legislature is funding this through the 24 Attorney General's office. And I don't see that funding 25 ever going away. 1-12-03 115 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The actual agreement is 2 for the software to allow this to happen? Is that what 3 we're -- 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They furnish -- it's a 5 vendor. It's a private vendor. Appris is a private vendor 6 that does it, that the Attorney General's office has 7 approved doing it, okay? They furnish the computer. They 8 help with the interface, between them and Software Group, 9 and then they keep the system maintained and take the 10 registration of the people that are calling to register for 11 it. They don't call us, they call that 1-800 number and -- 12 the victims do, and register to get the updates, and it 13 automatically calls their home anytime there's a change in 14 that offender's status. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, Software -- I guess 16 I'm -- certainly, I'm in favor of it. I'm just trying to 17 figure out how this thing works. So, the grant assists Kerr 18 County residents to get involved, or the grant gets the 19 information from the Sheriff's Department into the system? 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Grant also assists Kerr 21 County residents to get involved, okay? Which is through 22 our office, a lot of that, because they're more interested 23 in the offender here locally. Now, if we've had one that's 24 been sent to the penitentiary, it allows them to get 25 involved by getting registered. They can call that 1-800 1-12-03 116 1 number, get registered; they can get the updates anytime. 2 But Kerr County has to be involved in it. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: When a member of the 4 public calls the 800 number, what do they have to do? They 5 have to give a name? 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They can give a name, or 7 they'll have a pin number assigned to them, okay, and a 8 case-type deal where they can access those records and track 9 what's happening to that guy. And we get calls a lot of 10 times, you know, even from somebody from out of state that 11 moved here. I know one particular individual that was 12 kidnapped and sexually assaulted and moved here, and came to 13 me then -- it happened in California -- asking me to -- "Can 14 you find out when this guy's going to get out of the 15 penitentiary in California? 'Cause I'm concerned he'll come 16 here and sexually assault me again." This helps those type 17 of people. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm a little 19 confused, Sheriff. Does this call originate from this 20 agency to the victim, or does the victim have to call the 21 800 number to get the information? 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Both. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Both? 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Both. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 1-12-03 117 1 JUDGE TINLEY: The victim -- 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The victim can't -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: -- is registered with the 4 agency, and then, when there's a change in status of the -- 5 of the offender, the victim is automatically notified under 6 this system? 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Correct. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And then the victim can 10 also call that 800 number seven days a week, 24 hours a day, 11 just to check on that. One of the examples they give 12 farther in this training deal was a lady that had a very 13 violent marriage, got divorced, got total custody of her 14 kids, but she was extremely concerned that the ex-husband 15 would show back up at school anytime. He ended up in the 16 penitentiary, but he would get out, show back up at school, 17 kidnap the kids from school while she went to work. And the 18 example they gave in here is, every single morning, before 19 she put the kids on the school bus, she called the 800 20 number to make sure his custody status in the prison system 21 hadn't changed, and it gave her that ease of mind every 22 morning when she sent her kids off to school knowing he -- 23 yes, he's still in the penitentiary that morning. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think it's an 1-12-03 118 1 excellent program. It doesn't cost the County anything, and 2 it helps our victims drastically. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion that 4 we approve the agreement between Kerr County and Appris, 5 Inc., to provide the crime service -- crime victim 6 notification services. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 9 approval of the agenda item. Any question or discussion? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Authorize the County 11 Judge to sign same? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Any question or discussion? 14 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 15 hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Next item 20 on the agenda is consider and discuss and review update and 21 current report from our health broker and third-party 22 administrator on their efforts to obtain reimbursement of 23 health care funds which were authorized to be expended by 24 Kerr County Commissioners Court. Mr. Rothwell. 25 MR. ROTHWELL: I'm Ray Rothwell with Employee 1-12-03 119 1 Benefit Administrators, and I've been invited here by the 2 Judge to give you an update report, and also offered the 3 opportunity to discuss some of the points that were made at 4 the previous meeting by the Judge after the consultant made 5 his recommendation and prior to the vote, and I have some 6 specific comments I'd like to make on that. First off, I'll 7 give you an update report. I was here in June, and 8 according to the minutes of the Commissioners Court meeting 9 in June, I gave you an update report. That has not changed. 10 Would anyone like to question me on that, or would anyone 11 like any additional comments from me? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ray, what has not 13 changed? The amount of moneys? 14 MR. ROTHWELL: The amount of money received 15 back has not changed. The opinion of the reinsurance 16 carrier has not changed, and the opinion of my staff has not 17 changed. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can you go over all those 19 again, and the dollar amounts? 20 MR. ROTHWELL: Sure, I'll be happy to. We 21 had an advance of about $400,000 for a specific reason, and 22 I would like to discuss that reason in more detail when I 23 get to the second part of my -- of my comments. We had -- 24 we asked for an advance -- or we didn't ask for an advance, 25 that's wrong. There was an advance given by the previous 1-12-03 120 1 Court. And, again, I'll discuss those details a little more 2 thoroughly in a few minutes. There was an advance given, 3 and the advance was to pay some claims to keep them -- to 4 get them paid by the end of December, where we would have an 5 opportunity to get some of those funds back from the 6 reinsurance carrier if -- if that were appropriate. Working 7 with the information we had at the time, we felt like we 8 would get the majority of the money back, if not all. 9 After we got the final -- all the detailed 10 reports in, going into our second entire appeal with the 11 reinsurance carrier, when we had all the details from -- 12 from the hospital in question, we -- I was -- in my 13 reviewing them, I had pretty much determined that we were 14 not going to get the majority of our money back at that 15 point. And the reason was, when we asked for the advance 16 for some claims that we could pay if the County wanted to 17 pursue it that route and have a chance to get some of the 18 money back, we felt like, based on the preliminary review, 19 and our reinsurance carrier, based on their preliminary 20 review, felt like we would get funds avail -- back to us or 21 paid through the 8th or maybe even 9th of September. We 22 were dealing with a -- with an August 28 to September 12, I 23 believe, issue. After we got the final results going 24 into -- with all of the details from the hospital, for our 25 -- for our appeal, and support from the hospital and their 1-12-03 121 1 records, there was a device -- and I reported it in my June 2 meeting -- that that person was hooked up to on September 5, 3 not September 8 or 9, as we had been led to believe in the 4 preliminary reports. That device is the one that, by 5 medical terminology, medical protocol, and medical opinion, 6 from that point forward, it's -- it's aimed strictly as a 7 procedure that did happen, that we were -- that we were 8 paying for, that we had a -- had a cap limit on in the 9 current plan at that time. 10 So, we paid out moneys through what we 11 thought were reimbursable time frames, being September 8 or 12 9. I think we had the hospital bill even split down to 13 mid-date on the 9th, to where we could file for -- for 14 moneys at that point. When we got the records back and it 15 showed that machine was in use from the 5th on, then that 16 pretty much negated our ability to get any of the funds 17 after that. We, in fact, got around $200,000 -- 206 or 207 18 thousand back from those moneys that were paid. And the 19 reinsurance company pretty much closed their file on it, and 20 by mutual agreement within our company, as your third-party 21 administrator, we felt the same way. So, that's kind of a 22 short synopsis. There's approximately $200,000 outstanding. 23 Now, I will comment on one other -- one other 24 thing that we have done since then. As your third-party 25 administrator, we maintain your bank account on a monthly 1-12-03 122 1 basis. The Treasurer's office sends the full amount of 2 money to us, and we maintain the bank account, and that bank 3 account is -- is essentially a trust fund -- or not 4 essentially; it's not technically a trust fund, but it's a 5 fund that's employee benefit dollars. It's comingled with 6 employee contributions and County money, and it can't be 7 used for anything except employee benefits. We had 8 accumulated a rather large reserve in that account during 9 this year, and I approached the Judge and I said, you know, 10 there is one way we can get some of your money back in -- 11 your money back into that reserve account that these dollars 12 were taken out of. We discussed it. He agreed, said I 13 should do that, and we moved $170,000 from one reserve back 14 into another reserve, leaving around $38,000 of that 15 $400,000 not replaced. Granted, that 170 was not 16 reinsurance money; it was some County money -- some County 17 employees' moneys that could only be used for employee 18 benefits. 19 So, that's the status of it. I'm glad the 20 County Attorney's here. I'm sure -- I'm -- I'm looking 21 forward to him hearing my next comments, because I think 22 there's been some erroneous information spread around the 23 county, and I'm here to try to clarify as much as of that as 24 I can. Does anyone have -- yes, sir? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Before you go into 1-12-03 123 1 your second phase of your comments -- 2 MR. ROTHWELL: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- I'm not sure I 4 totally understand how much was recovered from the $400,000 5 advanced. Just give me the dollar amount. 6 MR. ROTHWELL: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How much has been 8 recovered? 9 MR. ROTHWELL: From the $400,000, 10 approximately -- right at $200,000 was recovered from the 11 reinsurance carrier. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: $200,000? 13 MR. ROTHWELL: Yeah. And leaving the 14 $200,000. We, in turn, moved back to the County out of -- 15 out of a bank account that's owned by the County about 16 $170,000 to put -- be put back in that, I believe, Indigent 17 Reserve that it was taken -- that the 400 was originally 18 taken out of. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But the 170 -- 170 20 was not -- 21 MR. ROTHWELL: It was not. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- recovery of the 23 advance? 24 MR. ROTHWELL: That's true. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It was moneys in our 1-12-03 124 1 reserve account which were -- could be returned safely? 2 MR. ROTHWELL: That's true. And we didn't 3 deplete that account. We left enough money in that account 4 that -- where we felt like we could operate the rest of the 5 year and go into the new contract year, should we be the 6 successful bidders. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, let me take that a 9 step further. If the reserve fund was not -- the $170,000 10 was not given back to the County, what would have happened 11 to that money? 12 MR. ROTHWELL: It would have stayed in that 13 account, and as we've done in previous years, we've -- we 14 have lowered monthly funding by some of those dollars by the 15 County and/or the employees contributing for the health 16 insurance. It's -- Commissioner, it's a fund that can only 17 be used for employee benefits. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, I guess, if we didn't 19 spend the $400,000, we still would have got back the 170? 20 MR. ROTHWELL: Oh, yes, absolutely. It had 21 -- and I explained that to the Judge. It had no part of the 22 four -- it had no part -- not related to the 400, except as 23 a way to get some of that money back into that reserve 24 account -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 1-12-03 125 1 MR. ROTHWELL: -- for indigent care that it 2 had -- that it had originally been taken out of. That was 3 the only reason for it. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm going to ask the 5 same question, I think, that Commissioner Williams asked, -- 6 MR. ROTHWELL: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- maybe a little 8 bit different. The question is, how much did Kerr County 9 pay in claims that we had no legal or contractual obligation 10 to pay? 11 MR. ROTHWELL: Virtually none. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Would you explain? 13 MR. ROTHWELL: Yeah. The -- the dollars that 14 we paid that were in question were for the -- the stay and 15 well-being of that County employee from the -- from the 3rd 16 of September to the 8th of September, so there's a five-day 17 window in there that we paid claims for items that we felt 18 initially would be paid under nonspecific procedure 19 benefits. Okay. The specific procedure had a $250,000 cap 20 limit on it in that plan document. Incidentally, I have 21 taken that 250,000 -- as of this year, we have removed that 22 $250,000 benefit as a part of being awarded this new 23 contract. We did that in conjunction -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Benefit or ceiling? 25 Which? 1-12-03 126 1 MR. ROTHWELL: We've removed the ceiling of 2 that benefit. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 4 MR. ROTHWELL: It's now part of the 5 million-dollar lifetime plan. But -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ray? 7 MR. ROTHWELL: But, Commissioner Nicholson, 8 we -- we -- we paid benefits during a period of time that 9 related -- that related to -- to other types of medical 10 conditions other than this specific provision. The 11 unfortunate part of it is, from the insurance industry -- 12 and that machine that was used on the 5th, from there 13 forward is technically considered all related -- technically 14 considered related to that specific procedure. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm sure you're 16 right, but if we were obligated to pay all those claims that 17 we did pay, why was it necessary to come to Commissioners 18 Court and ask for $400,000? 19 MR. ROTHWELL: We needed them paid before 20 December 31st to get them included in the contract that we 21 were in during that period of time. That contract, like the 22 contract that this Court approved recently, is a 12/12 23 contract, meaning that claims incurred during that 12-month 24 period and paid during that 12-month period. So, we needed 25 the claims paid by December 31st, and we were doing this in 1-12-03 127 1 mid -- late December, if you'll recall. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ray, let me ask, I guess, 3 a -- 4 MR. ROTHWELL: Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To make sure I understand 6 this. Or don't understand it, one or the other. 7 MR. ROTHWELL: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So I'm clear. If an 9 employee -- you know, say another employee gets sick with 10 the same medical scenario. 11 MR. ROTHWELL: Mm-hmm. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can -- is the County 13 obligated to pay for all those medical bills or not? 14 MR. ROTHWELL: No. Well, let me rephrase 15 that. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well -- 17 MR. ROTHWELL: If the situation was a mirror 18 image of this situation, there -- there are some -- there 19 were some expenses related to this particular operation -- 20 this particular procedure, operation, that were not -- the 21 County was not liable to pay. And, in effect, really and 22 truly, didn't pay over that cap of $250,000. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well -- so, if an 24 employee has a procedure that causes the $250,000 -- if they 25 have a $300,000 procedure, -- 1-12-03 128 1 MR. ROTHWELL: Uh-huh. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- that employee has to 3 come up with that $50,000 out of their own pocket? Or was 4 the County obligated to cover -- 5 MR. ROTHWELL: Or leave it unpaid. Yes, the 6 County's liability for that procedure during that period of 7 time and up until December 31st of this year had a $250,000 8 cap on it, period. Anything above that's not payable. Now, 9 when I -- when I approached your Treasurer, I said, 10 "Barbara, we've got a little deal here that y'all really 11 need to talk about. I'll be happy to give you the 12 information on it. I won't make the decision on it, but 13 I'll be happy to discuss it and give you some of my opinions 14 for it." And -- and if there were conditions -- if this 15 thing were to happen again right now, I would take the same 16 position I had at that time, based on the data that I had 17 available on -- on or about the middle of December. When I 18 approached the County, Barbara was nice enough to get the 19 County Auditor involved, the then-County Treasurer, and one 20 of the insurance agents for a meeting. And -- 21 MS. NEMEC: County Judge. The then-County 22 Judge. 23 MR. ROTHWELL: And the then-County Judge, I'm 24 sorry. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Let me, I mean, 1-12-03 129 1 take it a step further. And in this situation, the 2 individual is now deceased. 3 MR. ROTHWELL: Yes. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Which changes something. 5 If that situation -- if an employee in that situation -- the 6 guy was not deceased, -- 7 MR. ROTHWELL: Mm-hmm. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- you're telling me that 9 the County's insurance would not cover -- without the County 10 doing what we did, the County's insurance would not have 11 paid for his medical bill? 12 MR. ROTHWELL: Commissioner, the bill was 13 almost a million dollars. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I understand that. 15 MR. ROTHWELL: And we -- we ended up paying 16 the 250 plus another couple of hundred thousand dollars -- 17 you know, five -- half a million dollars, around about, plus 18 or minus a little bit. There was about $400,000 left on the 19 table unpaid. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. I guess what I'm 21 going back to, I'm trying to understand more from the -- for 22 the employees, what our insurance is buying them. And it's 23 not -- I mean, if they have a -- a situation where they have 24 a million-dollar bill, we're saying at that time -- now 25 you've raised it up to -- the cap's a million dollars. Even 1-12-03 130 1 so, say I have a $1.2 million procedure. We're saying we're 2 only going to cover a portion of it; you're going to be on 3 your own after that, sorry. I guess I didn't look at our 4 insurance as doing that. I thought that our insurance 5 covered their major medical expenses, and what I'm hearing 6 is that it doesn't. And, you know, I think that it's a -- 7 it opens the door to a different issue for the Court to look 8 at, as to whether we should. Whether it comes out of our 9 reserve funds or wherever, to me, we should be obligated to 10 pay the health benefits of our employees, and which is what 11 we did. And that's -- I guess I'm -- we've gone down a road 12 which is kind of alarming to me, that our health insurance 13 is -- you know, has the cap that it does, because I don't 14 think our employees feel that. I think our employees think 15 that if they get sick, we're going to pay their -- I mean, 16 our coverage covers their illness. And you're telling me 17 that if it's a big illness, sorry, we don't. 18 MR. ROTHWELL: We've -- we have been the 19 administrators of this County's plan for six years, going 20 into the seventh year, and I appreciate y'all's doing that. 21 We inherited, basically, the insurance plan that was in 22 place at the time of this incident. As of last December 23 31st, the insurance plan, with the exception of making three 24 plans out of one, has not changed in any shape, form, or 25 fashion during that six-year period. It has been brought to 1-12-03 131 1 the attention of various people within the county, and the 2 Treasurer has talked about it to the Commissioners, about 3 moving some of the benefits and changing some of the 4 benefits around a little bit. That cap related to those 5 procedures was in place seven years ago, and it was in place 6 until December 31st this year. All the bidders that were 7 bidding on your plan recently were bidding on that same 8 exact plan structure, per the instructions from your -- 9 y'all and from your Treasurer. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess -- I guess my -- 11 where my confusion comes is, I thought that the -- I mean, I 12 understood the cap; knew we did that, and I thought that was 13 a calculated risk that the -- that we took up here that 14 we're not going to get over that. But we -- I thought we 15 were still obligated to pay them. 16 MR. ROTHWELL: Six years ago, the incidence 17 of those procedures was much less frequently than they are 18 today, and they were much less costly, even though they were 19 kind of front-end deals. So, at that point, the cost of 20 these things -- you know, you can get that -- that 21 particular organ fixed -- transplanted for $300,000, or in 22 this case, $700,000, depending on the other medical 23 condition of that -- of that person. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 25 MR. ROTHWELL: It was a broad bill. 1-12-03 132 1 Commissioner Nicholson, I'm not sure I've answered your 2 question. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't know. I 4 think I'm hearing something different today than I've heard 5 in the past. I'm going to try again. 6 MR. ROTHWELL: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: If this Court had 8 not authorized that $400,000, the insured or the insured's 9 estate would have owed something over $200,000. That either 10 would have been paid by the estate or would have gone 11 unpaid? 12 MR. ROTHWELL: The way it ended up working 13 out after the final review by the reinsurance carrier and my 14 office, yes, that's true. We -- we felt, when we did this, 15 very strongly, and our reinsurance carrier endorsed that 16 opinion, until we all found out the real day that this one 17 particular machine was connected. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, it is -- 19 MR. ROTHWELL: From that point forward, the 20 dollars we paid technically were not payable under the 21 contract in place by the County. Now, there is a -- there 22 is one solution to that; we can go back to Methodist 23 Hospital and ask for overpayment recovery, which puts it 24 back on that employee's estate again. But while that is a 25 solution, it's one that's not used very often. 1-12-03 133 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, it is true that 2 we did -- the County did take taxpayer money, spend more 3 than $200,000 that we didn't have an obligation to spend? 4 MR. ROTHWELL: And that was clear from the 5 very first time I met in Barbara's office. That was a very 6 clear point of mine, and that's been -- been ignored to this 7 point. There was no liability issues -- I mean, it was 8 clear that -- I made it clear that the County had no legal 9 obligation or benefit obligation to pay those claims. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But there's -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me ask about this meeting, 12 if I might. You said a minute ago there was -- 13 MR. ROTHWELL: Okay, then let me flip over 14 into my second part, if we're through with this first part. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: You said when this thing first 16 arose, before it was presented to the Court, you indicated 17 there was a meeting, and that was the County Treasurer, the 18 County Auditor, and the then-County Judge, and you indicated 19 an insurance agent. I assume you mean -- 20 MR. ROTHWELL: Curtis Finley. Bryan was out 21 of town. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So, Mr. Finley, on 23 behalf of Bryan Finley and Associates Insurance. 24 MR. ROTHWELL: That's right. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: That was the meeting before 1-12-03 134 1 the matter was presented to the Court, and that's the 2 meeting you're referring to now where you made it clear? 3 MR. ROTHWELL: And at the county court -- at 4 the court -- at the presentation in December, when the Judge 5 presented it to the Commissioners and the Commissioners 6 voted, it was again reemphasized that the County had no 7 legal liability in doing that, okay? Let me -- let me back 8 up now. That's why, Judge, I take offense to the comments 9 you made after the -- after the consultant and prior to the 10 vote. You said you have a -- you have an obligation to make 11 these comments. It was interesting to me that they were all 12 written out in advance. "In the motion before this 13 Court..." so you went on and on about that, and then you 14 said "those entities," talking about two entities, Ray 15 Rothwell and Finley and Associates. That's -- I mean, 16 everyone in the room knew the two entities. I knew quite 17 well, because I was uncomfortable with your comments because 18 they were all wrong, erroneous, like I told you after the 19 meeting. I take offense to the part that -- where you say, 20 "it was subsequently accepted and admitted that Kerr County 21 had no legal liability or responsibility..." You went on to 22 say, "these entities failed to advise the previous Court 23 that it had no such responsibility." 24 You went on to say that, "...to disclose to 25 the previous Court that Kerr County had no legal 1-12-03 135 1 liability..." Again, "legal liability," you're talking 2 about. You're going to appeal to the Court; you've put this 3 on the agenda three times this last year. I knew it was on 4 the agenda once; I was here in June to make an update 5 report. You -- where you said three times, again, you were 6 referenced in the minutes, "Kerr County had no legal 7 liability." And then you go on down and you say, because of 8 all this stuff, you don't think you have any confidence in 9 either of these two entities handling the Kerr County 10 program any more. 11 At the meeting in December -- and I believe 12 that Barbara stands ready to speak to the issue. We have a 13 letter from the previous Judge relating to the issues you -- 14 and I'm not sure if Tommy's in the room or not, but he can 15 be called in and he will stress the point. I -- I gave no 16 representation at this meeting -- I agreed to attend. I 17 felt like there was some dollars we needed to get paid. I 18 agreed to attend, explain the position. I didn't explain it 19 as a human -- human -- humanitarian issue. I didn't explain 20 it as a legal issue. I explained it as an issue of timing 21 and days and dollars. If we wanted them paid with any 22 attempt of getting the money back, we had to pay them before 23 midnight, 12/31. I had to write the check on the last 24 working day of December that year. In my opinion, with 25 the -- with the information I had available to me at that 1-12-03 136 1 time, I felt like we would end up paying somewhere in the 2 neighborhood of $370,000 to $380,000 nonspecific procedure 3 benefits, and that we would get the majority of that money 4 back. That's the information I had. That's the way -- and 5 it was a timing issue. While this happened in -- in 6 October, we got the bills in mid-November from the hospital. 7 Didn't have the surgeons' bills till after January 1. So, I 8 was dealing with the best information I had available. 9 I made it clear in our meeting, and to this 10 Court, that there was no legal liability. It was not a 11 humanitarian effort. It was a deal strictly to get the 12 dollars available paid and get -- and have an opportunity to 13 get the money back. Judge, I too am a Kerr County employee 14 -- taxpayer, as are both of the members and the employees 15 of -- of Finley and Associates, and I take real offense when 16 you aim directly at someone with erroneous remarks. And I 17 respectfully ask you for a public apology to the Finleys and 18 to me; that the records from this court include that, and 19 that those records be provided to the other three or four 20 insurance companies that were in place at that time. If 21 anyone has any comments or anything they'd like to add to 22 that, please do. I'm here. I'm tough-skinned, and if the 23 guy here wants to talk to me, I'm willing to talk to him 24 too. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me ask some questions, if 1-12-03 137 1 I might, Mr. Rothwell. 2 MR. ROTHWELL: All right. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Of the $400,000 that was 4 placed at your disposal, that money was actually transferred 5 from Kerr County over to the benefits account or the claims 6 account and made available to you, was it not? 7 MR. ROTHWELL: That's right. The money -- 8 our money -- it is one account. It's a claims account that 9 we maintain in a bank account. It's replenished every month 10 by 100 percent of the -- of the funding numbers due based on 11 the -- the number of months and the bill for that month. 12 And the money came to us in the form of a check. The 13 $400,000 from Kerr County was placed in that same account, 14 and checks -- and claims -- checks were written out of that; 15 two, I think. I think a total of two checks against the 16 $400,000. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: And to whom were these things 18 written? 19 MR. ROTHWELL: Methodist Hospital. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Both of them to Methodist? 21 MR. ROTHWELL: Both of them. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: And would that have been in 23 the amount of approximately $258,000? 24 MR. ROTHWELL: No. Part of that money was 25 written earlier. That 258 -- part of that was written 1-12-03 138 1 earlier to cover the transplant benefit. It was collected 2 subsequent -- they could have all been written about the 3 same time, actually, yeah. Time-wise, within a few days of 4 each other. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. My point is, 6 approximately $142,000 of the 400 never was actually paid 7 out of Kerr County's reserve account. 8 MR. ROTHWELL: No, it was returned back 9 intact. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: In approximately April of '03. 11 MR. ROTHWELL: About April -- well, a little 12 before that, probably, but somewhere around that date. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: So, there was a total of 14 $258,000, round figures -- 15 MR. ROTHWELL: Yes. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: -- that was paid out of the 17 $400,000 from that reserve account. 18 MR. ROTHWELL: That's right. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: To -- you're saying to 20 Methodist Hospital, as the health care provider. 21 MR. ROTHWELL: That's right. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Other than the benefit 23 that the -- that the employee or -- or his family or his 24 estate may have received, and the health care providers that 25 that was paid to, that you've indicated, was there anybody 1-12-03 139 1 else that got any benefit from those funds? 2 MR. ROTHWELL: No. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. With regard to the 4 meeting that was held that -- that you've mentioned, that 5 was prior to the matter being presented to the court? 6 MR. ROTHWELL: Yes, it was. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. And was it that same 8 day or an earlier date? 9 MR. ROTHWELL: No, it was a week -- it was a 10 week or so earlier. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 12 MR. ROTHWELL: And from that meeting, the 13 Judge was to prepare a position paper that I believe was 14 given to the Court. I'm assuming it was. That's what he 15 said. And -- 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What who said? 17 MR. ROTHWELL: The Judge said. The -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Former Judge. 19 MR. ROTHWELL: -- former Judge. And it was 20 presented; it was discussed. Again, I have those notes 21 here, and copies of the minutes. It was discussed. I was 22 questioned. I answered. It was eventually -- after a long 23 dissertation between where the money was coming from, 24 primarily between y'all as a court to -- to the Auditor on 25 where the money was coming from and how it was going to get 1-12-03 140 1 back in there, and it was approved 5-0. 2 MS. NEMEC: May I add something to that? At 3 that time that that $400,000 was approved, Mr. Rothwell also 4 gave the Court the option -- because it was during the month 5 of December, and it still needed to go before review to see 6 if it went towards the transplant benefit and all that, 7 there were a lot of "ifs" and we were dealing with a time 8 deadline, he also at that time gave the Court the option 9 of -- in case they didn't want to expend the $400,000, that 10 they buy a 15/12 contract, just in case that we were liable. 11 So, all that was mentioned at the time, but the Court chose 12 to -- they -- Mr. Rothwell said that a 15/12 would be 13 approximately $270,000, and the Court felt like, out of the 14 $400,000, we could get more reimbursed than what it would 15 take to pay for the 15/12 contract, and that was the reason 16 that they went behind expending those funds. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Rothwell, the -- 18 generally, the benefit of obtaining an extension of coverage 19 which would have included the first three months of the 20 calendar year '03, that would be -- 21 MR. ROTHWELL: Let me correct you. It would 22 have -- it would not include those months; it would give you 23 those months to pay bills that were incurred in the first 12 24 months. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: But, generally, that's -- 1-12-03 141 1 that's -- that's thought of as being able to handle the 2 claims that were incurred in the last three months of the 3 previous year, would it not? 4 MR. ROTHWELL: Yes, generally. Let me -- let 5 me touch on that. This -- this -- the history of Kerr 6 County and -- and the experience of working with Employee 7 Benefit Administrators -- and Barbara will attest to the 8 funding requests she got on the last working day of December 9 this year. We paid, to get into last year's contract, every 10 claim that we had in-house on Kerr County employees. We 11 ended the last working day of December with zero claims of 12 Kerr County's unpaid in our shop. When you do that, you -- 13 you critically cut that time short. You know, buying a 14 12/15 contract costs something upward of $200,000 at this 15 point. I think we had a proposal that was $270,000. We 16 paid this last year, as an example, $111,000 after January 1 17 for claims that were incurred prior to that. By getting 18 that big -- big payment in on the -- right at the last, by 19 getting all the claims out of the shop, we eliminated 20 390-some thousand dollars of claims during that week that 21 would have waited to go into the new contract, which kept 22 them in that old contract. 23 We paid $111,000 last year. When we entered 24 into this year's, the contract we just finished, we paid 25 $118,000 after the year end for claims incurred prior to. 1-12-03 142 1 The prior -- the year before that, I do not recall the 2 numbers, but it was something less than $80,000, making it a 3 financial advantage for the County to stay with a 12/12 4 contract. And we've always got more than enough reserve, 5 between my reserve and Barbara's reserve, to pay any run-out 6 claims and go with -- and keep up with the current claims. 7 So, it's a financial advantage to buy a 12/12 contract. 8 Now, about 20 percent of my clients, I recommend buying a 9 15/12 or a 12/15, depending -- and you got to look at 10 that -- depending on what the conditions are. But I know 11 the pre-cert reports; I know if anybody's certified into the 12 hospital and what for during the last 30 or 45 days. I know 13 about it if we've got anything large working. You know, 14 there's reasons -- there's -- there's reasons not to buy it. 15 But your -- your statement is absolutely correct. That's 16 what it's intended to do, and occasionally it's necessary to 17 do that. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd just like to make a 19 general comment, because, I mean, this happened, what, three 20 years ago? You know, and -- and I thought about it a lot 21 since it's been brought up. If I had to make that vote 22 again, would I do it again or not? And I really don't know. 23 Probably I would, and the reason is this. This 24 Commissioners Court is charged with providing health 25 benefits to County employees, and I -- you know, I think 1-12-03 143 1 that's pretty serious. You know, and that's kind of where I 2 went on that comment a few minutes ago. We choose, for 3 financial reasons primarily, to have the policy and the 4 coverage that we currently have. Just because -- and this 5 is me personally speaking. Just because we have that policy 6 doesn't mean that we don't have above and beyond that 7 responsibility to our employees. And, you know, we're 8 dealing in taxpayers' money. We're also dealing with 9 employees' lives, and that's a fine -- you have to kind of 10 look at them and make decisions. 11 Mr. Rothwell said he didn't make a 12 humanitarian decision, or present that. Well, I recall 13 thinking about it. You know, I think it could have been 14 done better; we could have been given, maybe, more 15 information. The timing wasn't great. But the bottom line 16 was, I think, you know, my vote at the time, best I can 17 remember, was trying to provide health benefits to an 18 employee of the County, and I feel that is the 19 responsibility of this Commissioners Court. And we chose to 20 have a cap on our policy. When we did the policy, I may not 21 have understood it as well as I probably do today, but I 22 still think that we have an obligation to provide health 23 insurance to our employees, period. And I think that, you 24 know, we take a risk on -- with any policy we do, and I 25 think that that needs to be brought into the mix, because 1-12-03 144 1 there's been allegations made of -- basically, implications 2 made that we did things that weren't appropriate and weren't 3 proper with taxpayers' money, and I disagree with that. You 4 know, I think what was done was done with the -- you know, 5 maybe more with our hearts. But our hearts were -- you 6 know, that's our employees, and I feel an obligation to help 7 our employees. 8 Now, this one didn't turn out very well. 9 And, like I said, I think there's things that could have 10 been done different and better. I think that, through this 11 experience, I've learned more questions, probably, to ask. 12 But I don't -- you know, that's just -- that's the way I 13 feel about it. I don't think, you know, from my 14 recollection, that there was ever -- there was an intent to 15 do something where we weren't going to get our money. I may 16 have, you know, hinged more on hoping to get a refund than 17 we were -- than was meant. I wasn't privy to some of the 18 earlier conversations, exactly how much of this money would 19 maybe get -- what the risk was, but I think it's important 20 to remember that the -- the vote of the Court was to help an 21 employee, and I think that we have an obligation to help our 22 employees with health matters. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd like to add a 24 comment to that, too. I don't disagree with anything you 25 said, Commissioner, but I'd like to add one other comment. 1-12-03 145 1 All -- if not -- if not all, most of the decisions we 2 attempt to make up here are based on best available 3 information at the time we make the decision. I don't 4 recall ever making decisions, I think, in terms of real 5 speculation. We were provided with what the third-party 6 administrator believed to be the best available information 7 upon which to make a decision, and it was his strong belief 8 that, given the information he had, we could recover the 9 majority of these dollars. Am I correct in what I've just 10 said? 11 MR. ROTHWELL: Yes, sir. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. I'd vote again 13 the same way, bottom line. 14 MR. ROTHWELL: I would also recommend the 15 same way again, bottom line. 16 MS. NEMEC: That is one advantage we have, 17 and that is why the Court chose to be partially 18 self-insured, so that you all could make the decisions that 19 you wanted within your plan. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I might ask 21 Mr. Rothwell one other question, though. 22 MR. ROTHWELL: Sir? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Given all of this and 24 the fact that, after the fact, you learned some details 25 subsequent that you didn't know when you came to us late in 1-12-03 146 1 December, what have we learned from that? That's kind of my 2 question. 3 MR. ROTHWELL: Well, you know, probably a 4 mirror image of this case, it could transpire exactly like 5 this one happened. And -- and Commissioner Letz hit on it; 6 it's a timing deal. We're caught in that 12/12 contract 7 that -- do we want to roll the days that we'll -- that we 8 won't pay the benefit and we'll carry it over into the next 9 year, or roll the days that that many dollars won't bother 10 us next year? There's a variety of issues that -- most of 11 which we discussed. Occasionally, and -- and only one other 12 time, and it's been since then, that we've run into this in 13 our company, a timing issue that related to questionable 14 benefits. Would we go forward with that? That client being 15 a commercial account -- a commercial client, said yes, go 16 forward with it. I think we have to operate in our business 17 on the best information we have available to us. Sometimes 18 timing gets into it. If this had happened back in June or 19 May, we wouldn't be here; it would not be an issue. But, 20 because of the timing, it's an issue, and it's an issue 21 that's been blown well out of proportion. I believe the 22 Judge has been -- this has been explained to him by the 23 Treasurer and by the Auditor on more than one occasion, 24 and -- and for some reason, he doesn't want to listen to it. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My final comment is, on 1-12-03 147 1 this, that going back to that particular decision, I'm not 2 going to say right, wrong, or indifferent. I think I made a 3 comment on that. But the Court has, over time, chosen the 4 policy and the coverage, and we've gone with 12/12 coverage 5 'cause it saves us money. If you look over the time that 6 I've been a Commissioner now, seven years, and you figure 7 that that 15/12 coverage would have cost $200,000 additional 8 a year, which is conservative, versus the money we expended 9 here, we're still over a million dollars ahead of taxpayers' 10 money. And I think that's another thing that's part of the 11 reason. We -- when I make a vote on health insurance, I'm 12 trying to -- I'm weighing two things, giving the best 13 coverage to our employees and getting the best bang for the 14 buck with the dollars. That's what I think I've done. 15 MR. ROTHWELL: And that's what E.B.A. has 16 done for you during the years also. So, is this issue going 17 to continue, or is it a dead issue, or where is it going? 18 That's my question. I'm interested in where is it going? 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's a live issue 20 with me. 21 MR. ROTHWELL: It's a live issue? Okay. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. I think we 23 spent 200-some -- over $200,000 that we should not have 24 spent. I don't know of any other employer -- or employee 25 who would come to an employer, after knowing what the plan 1-12-03 148 1 is, paying his -- in his premiums, the employer paying some 2 premiums, coming back to that employer and saying, "I 3 exceeded my limits. I want you to pay that amount of 4 money." 5 MR. ROTHWELL: Commissioner, I don't think 6 you have a full understanding of it at this point. I'd be 7 happy to meet with you privately and go into more depth and 8 discuss it with you if you're interested in that. But I 9 would also say you don't know very many employers that have 10 stop loss kind of insurance and work with those daily 11 decisions through their Human Resources Departments, so your 12 exposure may be a little bit limited. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions, comments 14 for Mr. Rothwell? Thank you for being here, Mr. Rothwell. 15 We appreciate it. 16 MR. ROTHWELL: Do I get your apology, or -- 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Pardon? 18 MR. ROTHWELL: Do I get your apology, or are 19 you going to stand on your erroneous statements? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: If you get my apology, I will 21 give it to you, yes, sir. If you get it. 22 MR. ROTHWELL: If I get it? Well, I'll look 23 forward to your answer. That'll let me make my next 24 decision. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I would suggest that you 1-12-03 149 1 not hold your breath, please, sir. 2 MR. ROTHWELL: Okay. Then I might as well 3 start working on my decision, hadn't I? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll stand in recess until a 5 quarter till -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait. Let's -- we 7 left one out a while ago. That -- we did a public hearing 8 on it. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Plat process? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir, Number 7. 11 And we can approve it, and they can get to work. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 14 MR. JOHNSTON: He's got two. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't care what he 16 has. This one's in Precinct 1; that's all I'm interested 17 in. We did the public hearing on it. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's a motion and a 19 second. 20 MS. ALFORD: Who did the second? 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Me. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: To approve -- 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll just shut up. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me call Item 7, consider 1-12-03 150 1 approval of alternate plat process of Lot 83 and 84, 2 Northwest Hills, Precinct 1. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There was a motion and 5 second. I do have a question, though. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Do I have a motion and second 7 to approve the agenda item before it was called? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Any -- any 10 questions or discussion? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question. What's the 12 change? 13 MR. JOHNSTON: It's a minor change to the lot 14 line between those two lots. Lee could probably explain it 15 better than I could, but you may recall the preliminary 16 plat, he had kind of a little box in there, and this one he 17 got by -- just by altering the angle, I believe. And -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that what caused all 19 the calls to be different, when you changed -- 20 MR. VOELKEL: That's correct. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. That's -- I just 22 couldn't figure out why all your calls were different. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or 24 comments? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 25 your right hand. 1-12-03 151 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. I suppose 5 you want to go -- to do Hermosa? Is that what you're 6 talking about? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, I'm through. I'm 8 happy. 9 MR. VOELKEL: Judge, on that issue, the owner 10 of that property is here. He may have something out of town 11 this afternoon that might keep him from being here. I can 12 certainly be here, but if you wanted his benefit, he's here 13 now. How about that? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I'm just -- if we're -- 15 if it's going to take a while, I'd like to go ahead and 16 recess. If it's not, we'll go ahead and blow through it. 17 Let me go ahead and call Item 9, consider concept plan for 18 proposed subdivision Hermosa in Precinct 4. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: This is a concept 20 plan. The owner of the property is -- is correctly 21 following the rules and bringing a concept plan before he 22 goes any further. Commissioner Letz, if I understand 23 correctly, we're not making any decisions about approving 24 the -- the final plat plan; we're just accepting the concept 25 plan? 1-12-03 152 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct. It needs no 2 action. 3 MR. JOHNSTON: This is a time, I think, to 4 iron out any questions that the developer might have or we 5 might have, to try to get them worked out before he does the 6 preliminary plan. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The only comment that I 8 saw was -- question, is the -- I noticed somewhere a little 9 fine print -- oh, that the Lange Ravine Road, I presume, 10 which is the access road to the subdivision, that has a 11 30-foot easement. However, I'm presuming that the road that 12 goes into the development will have the standard 60 foot? 13 MR. VOELKEL: Correct. Correct. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the zone -- the part 15 referred to as "Zone X" is -- that's in the floodplain. 16 MR. JOHNSTON: That's a 500-year floodplain, 17 so it doesn't really have to show on the plat, but we just 18 showed it for -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 20 MR. VOELKEL: That will not show up on the 21 preliminary or on the final plat, the floodplain, because 22 it's not -- like Frank said, that's 500-year. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Size of road, size of 24 lots. 25 MR. JOHNSTON: These are all 15-acre lots, 1-12-03 153 1 and a hydrology study's not required for lots that take 2 15 acres or more, so they're exempt from doing that. Is the 3 road a private or public road? We didn't -- 4 MR. VOELKEL: Private road. Be a private 5 road. County will not maintain the road. 6 MR. JOHNSTON: Unpaved or paved? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It will be paved. 8 MR. VOELKEL: Paved. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Based on the number of 10 lots. 11 MR. JOHNSTON: I think eight's the limit, 12 isn't it? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 14 MR. JOHNSTON: There's more. There's 11. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Eleven lots. 16 MR. VOELKEL: I had a question, if I could, 17 of the Court. Cause 'I heard, maybe, from Mr. Letz, 18 presently there's no certification -- neither the owner or 19 anybody has to sign off that that plat has been done 20 properly except for Frank Johnston, I think. Is that 21 something that's going to change? Will you have -- you 22 know, will this one be subject to the owner or engineer 23 signing the plat that it's all been built to Kerr County 24 standards? Or is that still going to be on his signature? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There is -- on this -- in 1-12-03 154 1 our current rules, there's not a requirement for a drainage 2 study because of the lot size, and that's the only -- I 3 mean, I would say that they're going to be -- and the road 4 portion will be grandfathered under our current rules. 5 MR. JOHNSTON: Our current rules, as far as 6 roads are concerned, on 6.03.E.1, it says when submitted, a 7 final plat will be accompanied by the following site 8 improvement data, prepared by a registered professional 9 engineer. Under Roads, it says three copies of drawings, 10 construction details, and test reports on all materials, 11 verification of installed materials. So, that's already in 12 our rules. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's already in our 14 rules. I mean, I don't really see -- I mean, I don't think 15 there's any, really, change in this part. It's the drainage 16 area that we're really looking at some pretty significant 17 changes. There may be, if there was a drainage study -- and 18 as we continue adjusting our rules, we're looking at 19 possibly going to a 25-year frequency on drainage, which 20 would be a -- a whole lot stricter, because we seem to have 21 100-year floods on a very regular basis in Kerr County. 22 So -- and, you know, it might be a little bit of -- you 23 know, which would be a big change in that area. But, you 24 know, I would -- I mean, I don't think there would be any 25 difference under the -- really, under the new rules or old 1-12-03 155 1 rules, but I think it would qualify under the old rules or 2 current rules. 3 MR. JOHNSTON: Really old rules do call for 4 drawings; there needs to be engineered drawings on the roads 5 that allow for the roadside drainage also. That's the major 6 area, is up that ravine. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Commissioner Letz, 8 we're not being asked to approve anything here today, I 9 think. We're being asked to accept the concept plan? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's accepting. I don't 11 -- I'm not even sure we always even make a motion to that 12 effect. I think on some -- most of them, we have not. I 13 think it's just more of a -- it's just for us to be aware 14 and for us to -- if there's a real problem, to let the 15 developer know, hey, this -- you're way off base. And, to 16 me, this is a -- looks like it meets -- is well above our 17 minimum standards. 18 MR. JOHNSTON: Mm-hmm. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thank you, 20 Mr. Vlasek, for bringing us the concept plan. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Now are y'all through, 22 for now? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm hungry, I know that. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We could do one 25 more -- no. Do one more? 1-12-03 156 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. We'll stand in 2 recess until quarter till 2:00. 3 (Recess taken from 12:40 p.m. to 1:45 p.m.) 4 - - - - - - - - - - 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me call the meeting back 6 to order of the Commissioners Court scheduled for this date, 7 Monday, January 12, 2004. We originally commenced at 8 approximately 9 a.m. We were in recess until quarter till 9 2:00 in the afternoon, and it's approximately that time, so 10 next item on the agenda, Number 10, consider setting a 11 public hearing concerning name changes, regulatory sign, and 12 roads to be abandoned and discontinued and vacated. Yes, 13 ma'am? 14 MS. HARDIN: We have two road name changes: 15 Roane Road to Wilson Creek; Sidney Baker North, from the 16 city limits to the Gillespie County line, to Fredericksburg 17 Road North. One regulatory sign, which is a stop sign at 18 Hermann Sons and Lindner Branch that we would like to 19 remove. I guess we have to revoke the court order that put 20 that in place? Do you know? And -- 21 (Discussion off the record.) 22 MS. HARDIN: And then abandon, discontinue, 23 and vacate from county maintenance two roads that are in 24 Guadalupe Ranch Estates, one being Run Drive West, the other 25 Gulch Ranch Road West. When we signed the county-maintained 1-12-03 157 1 roads, we sent someone out to put a sign up on what was 2 Turkey Run and change it to Run. That road had been gated 3 off for nobody knows how long. And the Gulch Ranch Road, 4 the homeowners that are on both sides would like to gate 5 that off. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's in the same 7 subdivision, Gulch? 8 MS. HARDIN: Yes. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the 23rd is the first 10 date that -- best we can tell, that meets the requirements 11 of the law? 12 MS. HARDIN: That's correct. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move we set the public 14 hearing for the items as presented. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 16 MS. SOVIL: February 23rd? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: February 23rd at 18 10:30 a.m. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to 21 set public hearing on requested agenda items for 22 February 23rd at 10:30 a.m. Any question or discussion? 23 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 24 hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 1-12-03 158 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Next item, 4 Number 11, consider private road name changes in accordance 5 with 9-1-1 guidelines. 6 MS. HARDIN: We have four private roads, all 7 in Nicholson's Precinct 4. Three of them are in the Y.O. 8 Ranchlands, and the other is a private driveway that runs 9 between Goat Creek and Wren Road. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I move we approve 11 the requested private road name changes in accordance with 12 9-1-1 guidelines. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 15 approval of the private road name changes in accordance with 16 9-1-1 guidelines, in accordance with the agenda item as 17 presented. Any question or discussion? All in favor of the 18 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Next item, 23 Number 14, consider registration/reservations for West Texas 24 County Judges and Commissioners Association annual 25 conference in Midland, Texas. Commissioner Baldwin. 1-12-03 159 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, sir. I 2 just wanted to bring this up because when we go to these 3 conventions, it's best, as we've all -- we all know, that we 4 get -- get into the host hotel if we possibly can. It may 5 be too late even now to do that. I feel like it -- probably 6 it is. But, regardless, I think we need to get registered 7 for it and get a place to stay out there as well. And I've 8 asked Mrs. Sovil if she would be kind enough to make those 9 reservations and take care of all this for us, so we need to 10 -- I need -- we need to know who's going and who's not 11 going. 12 (All Commissioners raised their hands.) 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which is the host 14 hotel? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The Midland Holiday 16 Inn. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Isn't that the same dates as 18 the juvenile conference that I have? 19 MS. SOVIL: No, sir. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: When is that? 21 MS. SOVIL: Your juvenile conference is in 22 February. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, okay. I was looking -- 24 February 17 to 19, the item up above the one you circled. 25 Okay. 1-12-03 160 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The dates of this 2 are -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: March 23 through 26. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Mr. Baldwin, I'd 5 like to spend my time in beautiful, downtown Midland. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: As I, sir. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: As I. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: So -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, there's five of 10 us. Would you take care of that, please, Thea? 11 MS. SOVIL: Yes, sir. Are we taking wives or 12 are we getting five rooms? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Single size, no 14 smoking. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Same with me. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Same. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Same. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't care about smoking. 19 Smoking's okay with me. If I take my wife, I want it to be 20 a smoking room. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I am not taking my 22 wife. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm taking Buster's 24 wife; she wants no smoking. (Laughter.) 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No smoking, please. 1-12-03 161 1 JUDGE TINLEY: You've already claimed that. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We definitely want no 3 smoking, then. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I -- I'm just 5 thinking, I don't think there's a good alternative to that 6 Midland hotel. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We've got to go to 8 Odessa. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I really don't know; 11 it's been so long. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It hasn't changed. If 13 you haven't been in a long time, it hasn't changed. But -- 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Pulled down those 300 FHA 15 houses, and that's about all they've done. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There's a couple 17 things out there by the airport. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's some other 19 hotels, but they're just not in the proximity of this hotel. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's probably true. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is -- is this Holiday 22 Inn -- is that the same thing as the old Scarborough Hotel? 23 Remember the old Scarborough downtown? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It used to be the old 25 Hilton. Used to be the old Midland Hilton. 1-12-03 162 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That ought to be fun. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thea, would you find 3 us a place to sleep, please? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: May already have one lined up 5 for you. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Embassy Suites by the 7 airport will work. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If we can't get this, let 9 me know. I can try to -- I have good friends out there; I 10 can call and find out what's the next best in this area. 11 MS. SOVIL: I need somebody's credit card. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: How much room they got? 13 Jonathan has good friends out there; use their credit. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Buster has a county card. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, I don't. Not any 16 more. 17 MS. SOVIL: He gave his county card up. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, that's done. Is 19 that done? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: She's waiting for who's 21 going to put it on their credit card. Bill waved, said he 22 would. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's okay with me. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any further action we 25 need on that item? 1-12-03 163 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I just wanted to 2 bring up -- if you remember, last time we talked about this, 3 we talked about the County owning a new vehicle that we 4 could ride out there in. You know, if there's -- I can see 5 four of us getting in that thing, or maybe even five, but I 6 don't see six or seven. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or eight. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think I want to go 9 on my own, Buster. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And you're going to go 11 on your own. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd go, but you don't 13 have room for my golf clubs, so I can't. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Correct, so we're 15 going to go on our own. On the way back, I'm making a 16 detour and going to Fort Worth to a track meet. So -- 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Took care of that 18 idea, didn't it? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll take a county car, 20 then. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're welcome to. 22 All right. That's all, sir. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Juvenile Probation has this -- 24 it's about a '98 model Ford Taurus we'll be happy to let you 25 check out. 1-12-03 164 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I was thinking of a Yukon 2 that I've recently seen in the -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: I see. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I saw it driving out 5 of here at lunchtime. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Is that it on that 7 item, gentlemen? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move to Item 15, discuss 10 and consider giving Commissioner, Precinct 1, authority to 11 prepare a proposal to host the West Texas County Judges and 12 Commissioners conference. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You see we have a memo 14 here from Judge Allred of Oldham County. He will be the 15 president in 2005. And, along with that, he has sent us 16 some information that they want to be a part of the -- the 17 package, and he's really interested in coming and bringing 18 the convention to Kerrville. I've been visiting with him 19 now for a couple of years on it. And so, if you would allow 20 me -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Excuse me. Thank you. 23 Second. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Wait a minute. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to 1-12-03 165 1 give Commissioner, Precinct 1, authority to prepare a 2 proposal to host the West Texas County Judges and 3 Commissioners conference. That is for what year? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 2005. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: For two -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 2006, I'm sorry. 7 2006. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: 2006. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or 11 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 12 your right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is probably a 18 companion item to that one. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Consider and discuss adopting 21 resolution to host the 2006 West Texas Judges and 22 Commissioners Association annual conference. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Wait a minute. Okay, 25 I'll second it. That's why I was holding my hand up. The 1-12-03 166 1 date's wrong on the resolve. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I saw that, mm-hmm. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 12th day of January? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, '06. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: The paragraph before that. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: '06, you're exactly 7 right. I appreciate that; I hadn't seen that. I wanted to 8 point out in the -- one, two, three -- third "Whereas," they 9 estimate the economic impact about $650,000 in our community 10 if we can bring this convention here, and I think that's a 11 pretty good little chunk of change that the city makes off 12 of it. And -- 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And we think we can 14 do this without any cost to the taxpayers? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir, we think we 16 can. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Commissioner, will it 18 be your idea to ask C.V.B. to help you -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- with preparation 21 of the proposal? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir, absolutely. 23 No question. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: You didn't think he was going 25 to do all that work himself, did you? 1-12-03 167 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, I just wanted to 2 confirm it. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, absolutely. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maybe we should show one 5 of the Schreiner University commercials to get their 6 attention. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There you go. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It would, wouldn't it? 9 Especially the one with the snuff on the mouth. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think an adaptation 12 of that would be neat. I'm sorry, Judge. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I so move that we 14 approve this resolution. Or -- 15 MS. ALFORD: He already did. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I already did. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion and second. Any 18 further question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, 19 signify by raising your right hand. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Y'all are kind of 24 breezing through mine, which I like, but I may want to stop 25 in the middle of the resolution and talk about caliche or 1-12-03 168 1 something like that. So, slow down just a little. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Next item, consider and 3 discuss and take appropriate action on a request from Kerr 4 County Republican Party to use the large district 5 courtroom -- I assume that to be Number 1? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: March 27, 2004, from 8 a.m. 8 till 6 p.m. for purposes of conducting Kerr County 9 Republican Convention. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would be the 11 Kerr County Biannual Republican Convention, Judge, and I 12 meant to put that in here. And, you know, typically we do 13 that every two years, so I would move that we give 14 permission for that to be done. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. I just wonder 16 why you have -- have to have 10 hours. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, they have 18 preparations for refreshments to begin with, and some 19 subcommittee meetings. They probably won't use all that 20 time, but they'd like to be safe. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: One thing I would pass on is, 22 those courtrooms have signs clearly posted, "No smoking, 23 food, or drinks in the courtroom." 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Certainly, having them outside 1-12-03 169 1 is not a problem. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They've had 3 refreshments in the past out there and in the lobby area. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I think the Maintenance people 5 are -- have had a concern about that from past incidents. 6 But -- 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or 9 comments? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 10 your right hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Next item 15 is consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to approve 16 contract between Kerr County and Alamo Regional Transit to 17 provide transportation services to the citizens of Kerr 18 County, including the indigent and elderly. According to 19 the agenda item, that contract has been prepared by the 20 County Attorney's office, and, of course, as we all know, 21 funding is provided for in the budget. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is, as you know 23 it, Judge, the agreement -- proposed agreement that was 24 drawn up by the County Attorney, having satisfied himself 25 that we have the authority to do that. So, I would move the 1-12-03 170 1 adoption of the contract. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I second it, but I 3 have a couple of questions. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Any 5 questions or discussion? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How many -- how many 7 vehicles do they have over there? I'm going to tell you, we 8 had the discussion about all this a couple months ago, and 9 I've gotten a phone call saying it's neat that we do all of 10 this, but they're working us drivers to death, and -- and we 11 have six or eight vehicles parked in the barn that are not 12 used. And -- you know, do we -- 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They're actively 14 looking for drivers. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that the problem, 16 that there's no drivers? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They're looking for 18 drivers. And -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are you looking for 20 something to do on your days off here? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I was thinking about 22 it. You want to join me? I'll drive in the morning; you 23 drive in the afternoon. That way I can play golf in the 24 afternoon. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sounds good. All 1-12-03 171 1 right. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They are looking for 3 drivers. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The number of 6 vehicles, Buster, I'm not sure, but I think they've added 7 some. They had acquired some of those that Dietert had. 8 They brought the trolleys back over from Fredericksburg; 9 they're based here now, and I am seeing some of the larger 10 buses, the 15- or 18-passenger buses, I'm seeing those on 11 the roads. I don't know the count, but I'll get the count 12 if you want. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I drove by there and 14 looked up in that barn; there were six -- six vehicles just 15 parked there doing nothing. And, so, in the full contract 16 here, I just -- clear up something for me. It talks about 17 transportation and indigent residents and paupers and all 18 those things all throughout here. You get down to the fifth 19 "Whereas," it -- at the bottom on Page 1, the "County has 20 determined that a program to provide general transportation 21 services to county residents for purposes including 22 recreational purposes by subsidizing a transportation 23 program administered by ART, with the cooperation of Alamo 24 Area Council of Governments, to promote local economic 25 development and to stimulate, encourage, and develop 1-12-03 172 1 business location and commercial activity..." Help me 2 understand how we provide transportation to poor folks -- 3 what economic development and developing business and all 4 that -- 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It could be tied in 6 to Workforce Development; if people needed a job or -- I 7 mean, a lift to a job and return, that could be provided. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's economic 9 development? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. It does tie 11 into Workforce Development. And so, you know, if I'm one of 12 those souls who lost his automobile -- or his 13 transportation, and I had an opportunity to work at Mooney 14 or Diversified, I needed a ride back and forth, I could 15 qualify for that ride. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, that's fine. 17 I'm certainly not going to argue with it. My mind has to 18 really stretch out there to grab ahold of economic 19 development in all of that, but that -- that's okay. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner, how about 21 somebody that needs a ride to town so they can spend their 22 -- spend their money? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That works, too. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: At the local businesses. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I still don't see that 1-12-03 173 1 as economic development, developing economics. But -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Increase business. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Whatever. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would agree it's a 5 stretch, but -- 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's the County 7 Attorney's language. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, that's fine. But I 9 have a question also, if you -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That was the only one 11 I had, was just that language there. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My question is, was there 13 a reason it was so vague as to what they're doing? And the 14 only thing that I see as to what we're getting is on Page 2, 15 Item 2a, and it says all we're getting is general 16 transportation services to those in need. I mean, you 17 know -- and maybe that's intentional, but it's like we're 18 not -- there's not a whole lot of accountability that 19 they're going to do -- do something for us in the contract. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I don't mean to 21 be flippant, but how else would you say it? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I guess, you know, 23 if they're going to have buses up here and provide eight 24 hours a day of transportation -- I mean, you know, something 25 more than they're going to provide general services. I 1-12-03 174 1 mean, it doesn't seem very explicit to me. And maybe -- 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think -- and, in 3 reality, I think it has to be kind of loose, because you 4 never know how many buses or pieces of transportation 5 equipment you're going to have in use on any given day, 6 'cause you don't know how many calls you're going to get for 7 that transportation. And keep in mind these are not set 8 routes. They're run on a schedule; they are as called for. 9 And that's -- that's kind of a -- a nebulous 10 and imponderable -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess, you know, and 12 I -- granted, most of this is coming from federal funds. I 13 mean, we're putting in 7,000-something. I guess there's 14 some report that we can look at to see how much is being 15 used down the road or -- 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It just seems very vague 18 to me, and maybe it needs to be that way. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There is a report, 20 Commissioner, and I'll be happy to provide the Court with it 21 henceforth. It comes out monthly; I get them at the Board 22 of Directors meeting showing the number of trips, number of 23 miles and so forth. Rather detailed. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Because, like, the -- 25 when we do this at our next budget, I'd like to understand 1-12-03 175 1 what we're getting for our money, more than I currently 2 understand. And the -- it just seems vague to me, but I 3 figured it was intentional. Okay. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: My evolving concept 5 about what a local government should do is probably changing 6 a little bit, but I still really have a hard time about 7 being in the transportation business and providing other 8 social services. We'll -- maybe we'll get some time to talk 9 about that before now and next budget. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or 11 comments? Discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify 12 by raising your right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Next item, 17 consider and discuss setting a date and establishing 18 procedure and selecting facilitator and/or other persons to 19 participate in strategic planning session or workshop. I 20 melded together some material from Commissioner Nicholson 21 and some meager information that I put together on this. I 22 had made contact, at the Court's suggestion and direction 23 here a couple of months ago, with folks over at L.C.R.A., 24 and we had a conflict on the proposed date, which would have 25 been the 21st of this month, and looks like that's going to 1-12-03 176 1 be off anyway. But when I last talked to the individual at 2 L.C.R.A., I told him that we were going to be reconsidering 3 the matter this meeting, and in the event it became 4 necessary for me to get back with him, I would. But I guess 5 we need to at least light on a list of who's our first 6 choice facilitator, and if that one's not available on the 7 date, who's our second, and come on down the list, as well 8 as determining when and where and what the format's going to 9 be, and -- and also what other resource persons that we may 10 want to have there. I'm not sure what the Court's desires 11 are, but -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, what are your -- 13 from your -- I know you've talked to L.C.R.A. and, I think, 14 TAC. I mean, have you -- what are they -- I mean, I know 15 they couldn't make it the 21st. What was their schedule 16 like, and have you talked to anybody else? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: The information -- no. The -- 18 my understanding of the direction from the Court was to 19 contact L.C.R.A., and then, when it became apparent that we 20 had a problem with this date, I -- I first worked through 21 Mr. Pená, who, of course, all of you know. And then I had 22 -- I was contacted by one of his superiors over there, and 23 Roland had told me that they project these meetings out 24 several months out. And so, basically, that message was 25 trying to give them, if they're going to facilitate, as much 1-12-03 177 1 lead time as possible. It may well be that -- that their 2 guy's not going to be available. If we want to look at 3 alternate dates, certainly, I'll be happy to go back to him 4 with those dates. But then Commissioner Williams came to me 5 with another individual, a gentleman by the name of Chris 6 Avery, who apparently is in management motivation, I'll call 7 it, for lack of a better term. He's a consultant and 8 professional in that field. And, subsequent to my 9 contacting L.C.R.A., Commissioner Williams came back to me 10 with -- he had made contact with Avery, and Avery said he'd 11 do it gratis. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He did say he'd do it 13 pro bono. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'd go with that. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And one of my 16 constituents. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He is. Yeah, he 18 lives in Comfort. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, he works out of Comfort, 20 as I recall, yeah. Yeah. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Very nice man. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you know him? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, I know him quite 24 well. Domino player. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Good domino player. Well, he 1-12-03 178 1 can't be all bad, then, can he, Buster? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm all in favor of 3 it. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it would be -- I 5 mean, I didn't -- actually, I didn't know he did this. I 6 talked to him at length not long ago about some other 7 matters. He lives in Falling Waters Subdivision. Very nice 8 wife; he's a very nice man. He has a personality, I think, 9 that would lend itself to this type of work. I didn't know 10 this is what he did. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: That's his profession. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He's a -- you know, kind 13 of a high-energy, articulate -- 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't know him, but 15 I've read his material and I've spoken with him twice, and 16 he seems like a guy who would make this process move along. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah, he -- there's 18 a lot of people that do this. I'll bet there are 50 in Kerr 19 County who can do this -- do this well, and he can, 'cause I 20 -- just from what you've told me about his background there. 21 I don't know the man, but if he can do it, I'd get him. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, especially for 23 free. 'Cause I think he's -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- he's doing it as a -- 1-12-03 179 1 for the county as a public service. He does a lot of public 2 service work. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If the Court's 4 amenable to using him, would it be acceptable for me to call 5 him up and ask him to give me maybe two or three dates in 6 the month of February which he could do it? And then we can 7 select a date. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or invite him to our next 9 court meeting so we can -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or we can do that. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- all meet him. Just 12 so -- I mean, I think -- I'm glad to -- or you can give him 13 a call, 'cause you already talked to him. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll call him back 15 this afternoon. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And proceed with that. 17 And then I -- from the -- from the format standpoint, I'd 18 leave it totally up to him. I think, obviously, we want to 19 do strategic planning for, you know, everything from, I 20 guess, budget to airport to, you know, whatever. And I 21 think we can probably go over that in court with him, and 22 give him an idea as to the -- the format, but let him choose 23 the format that's he's comfortable using. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, when I mentioned format, 25 I didn't necessarily mean to dictate to him, whoever that 1-12-03 180 1 facilitator may have been. What I was talking about, are we 2 going to do it in a -- in kind of a free-wheeling 3 workshop-type setting, or are we going to have it in a 4 formal kind of meeting? Either way, we're going to post, 5 but insofar as taking any formal action is more what I had 6 in mind. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it would be 8 preferable to do it at a -- for lack of a better word -- 9 remote location, where -- I mean, we're out of our -- the 10 courthouse. And if we can do that, I think we can, where 11 it's more relaxed, and I think Buster mentioned a facility 12 that may be available. I don't know if it is. There's some 13 others. The -- 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Storey Building. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The Storey Building in 16 Center Point. They may or may not donate that, I don't 17 know. But there's other places. There's, you know, 18 small -- up in the western part of the county, I would 19 imagine some of those B & B's/hotels/camps very well may -- 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'll donate a place. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Casa Bonita, big house there. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Doesn't make any 23 difference. You know, whatever's available, doesn't make 24 any difference. But I think it would be better to do it at 25 a location different than the courthouse. 1-12-03 181 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let me see if we're 3 all on the same page on what we want to do, what the product 4 is. At the end of the day, we would have a -- a list of a 5 few things that we won't get around to -- that are critical, 6 that are important, that we need to work on, that we won't 7 get around to unless we have a meeting like this, do some 8 prioritization, and establish some organization to it. So, 9 at the end of the day, we're going to have a -- a list of 10 three or four or eight or ten things we think we ought to be 11 working on. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think -- the 13 answer, to me, is yes, sort of. I mean, I see it as a -- a 14 brainstorming-type setting, where we can kind of freely talk 15 about, you know, what our views are of everything from the 16 Ag Barn to the airport to the library, and based on that, 17 somehow come out with a -- you know, some priorities for the 18 county. But I don't want it to be exclusive. I mean, the 19 fact that it's not on the list doesn't mean that -- 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You know, I won't -- the 22 fact that Hermann Sons Bridge is not listed doesn't mean 23 we're going to stop Hermann Sons Bridge. So, it's -- I 24 think it's kind of -- I look at it as a brainstorming thing 25 for us to get some new ideas, some new ways to possibly do 1-12-03 182 1 things in county government. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We're real close. 3 That's what I want to do, too. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I just want to be 5 certain -- I'm following up on that -- that just because it 6 may not end up on the list -- 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Doesn't mean -- 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- the final five, 9 doesn't mean we're preempted, any of us, from bringing an 10 issue that may have developed to the point that you can 11 bring it to the Court at a later date. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Sure. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Even if it's not even 14 mentioned there. Oh, no. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Exactly. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Nobody's going to be cut off 17 from anything. It's just a matter of trying to determine 18 some general -- general priority items, is what I think it's 19 all about. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think the other 21 point that -- you know, that probably needs to be said is 22 that, I mean, we've done similar things to this one other 23 time since I've been a Commissioner, and, you know, while 24 it's frustrating that, because we have a rotating door of 25 who sits on this court, this is good for about a year, and 1-12-03 183 1 it's not true long-range planning, because we can't commit 2 future courts. We can't talk about future budgets, 3 really -- or we can talk about them, but we can't really set 4 a whole lot. So, it's a good exercise, I think; kind of 5 gets us focused on some things. But, you know, it's limited 6 in how -- 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let's work on a two 8 and a half-year plan. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, we're going to 10 leave it. I'm going to call Mr. Avery and request three or 11 four dates from him, invite him to court so the Court can 12 meet him, and we'll set a date and so forth. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: And I would suggest that if 14 anybody has any thoughts or ideas about other persons in the 15 way of resource persons that -- that you may want at this 16 gathering, that you may start circulating that information. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's to be a one-day 18 session, all-day session, I would think. Almost has to be. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would think one day, 20 all day. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: From other re -- go 23 ahead. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: She had a question she was 25 wanting to raise. 1-12-03 184 1 MS. SOVIL: Observation. That you need to 2 post it, perhaps, as a workshop. That way, you don't have 3 to take minutes and you wouldn't have to take a clerk along 4 if you just had a workshop. If -- if you're going to a 5 remote location, you have to remember, if it's a posted 6 meeting, you got staff that is going to have to trail along. 7 If you post it as a workshop, you would not necessarily have 8 to have minutes, and -- and -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. I think -- I 10 really think, yeah, it's better if it is a workshop setting 11 without minutes, and I think it's a -- the -- the intent is 12 for us to be able to freely talk about things and, you 13 know -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. The only reason 15 you'd want it to be a regular, full-blown meeting is to make 16 decisions, and we're not anywhere -- wouldn't be anywhere 17 near that, anyway. So -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If we were to end up, 19 for example, in the Storey Building, would it not be 20 appropriate for us to try to find an underwriter for lunch? 21 Where we don't -- 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think that would be 23 appropriate. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, yeah. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You don't know anybody 1-12-03 185 1 that owns a whole bunch of orange-colored grocery stores 2 around, do you? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, I do. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Isn't that amazing? 5 We're talking about hauling along, like, maybe a County 6 Engineer, like a County Auditor, if he's available, people 7 like that, that can feed us information and be a part of the 8 decision-making process? Is that what you're talking about? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or other outside 10 resource people. You know, if I had somebody that's got 11 expertise on sewers or water, we may want those folks too at 12 some point. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that -- you know, 14 I almost hesitate to say it, but possibly the City Manager 15 of Kerrville. Because, I mean, we do have a lot of 16 relations with them on a lot of issues, and I don't know how 17 you focus -- I think we should possibly have maybe a 18 session -- this is up to Chris Avery, but without anybody, 19 and then maybe bring some other people in, possibly as part 20 of it. But I think -- I think, really, I wouldn't heavily 21 rely on what they think. We can kind of talk about this 22 on -- 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: There's -- I think 24 there's something to be said for -- if nobody shows up but 25 the five of us, that's okay. 1-12-03 186 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't see that 3 we're going to be making any progress on solving -- on 4 problem solving. We're just going to come up with what we 5 want to spend our energy and resources on for the next few 6 months. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Identify and prioritize. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah, the Ag Barn's 9 going to be on there; at least two or three of us are 10 interested in doing some work on the Ag Barn. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That may be the way 12 to do it. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't think we're 14 going to float any ideas about what the solutions are in any 15 detail. We're just going to say we need to work on this, 16 and these are the two or three -- the information we need. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the way I was 18 seeing it, too. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That probably better, 20 without anybody but us five, then. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the way I saw 22 it. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We through thrashing 24 this one out? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 1-12-03 187 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. We'll move on to 2 the next item, then, consider and discuss adoption of Kerr 3 County Indigent Health Care Policy, which would require 4 persons seeking indigent health care status to register for 5 work with Texas Workforce Commission, unless the proposed 6 recipient is exempt from the registration under the Indigent 7 Health Care Program guidelines. I put this on there as a 8 result of a discussion I had with Ms. Judy Bledsoe, who's 9 our Indigent Health Care Administrator. And if -- if we 10 choose, we can -- we can require people who are not 11 otherwise exempt under the guidelines -- and they're listed 12 there; over 60, having a disability rating, have at least a 13 claim pending on appeal, I think is what it's called, and 14 some other exemptions. In order to maintain their status 15 under our Indigent Health Care program, they've at least got 16 to be registered with the Texas Workforce Commission, which 17 apparently they are not now. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: And so I -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's good. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I think that's a no-brainer. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree. So moved. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. Welfare to 24 work. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 1-12-03 188 1 the approval of the agenda item. Any further question or 2 discussion? All in favor, signify by raising your right 3 hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. At this 8 time, do we have anything to go into executive session 9 about? It doesn't look like we've got any of the right 10 folks to do that, anyway. Hearing none, we'll move on to 11 the approval agenda. Payment of the bills. You showed up 12 on a timely basis, Mr. Auditor. 13 MR. TOMLINSON: I try my best. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He's good. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: I got inside information. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: I see. One of those buzzers 17 like they have in the upstairs courtrooms? 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I move we pay the 19 bills. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. I've got some 21 questions, though. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 23 payment of the bills. Questions or discussion? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not a question. I 25 just want to point something out that I think is a -- is 1-12-03 189 1 wrong, and that's on -- that's on Page 2, down at the 2 bottom, 198th District Court. Mr. Crider, the third and 3 fourth item down. This guy has -- I went out and watched 4 part of his trial. This guy has three attorneys, 5 court-appointed attorneys that you and I pay for, and they 6 don't do that for everybody. Any kind of indigent person 7 doesn't come in, doesn't get three professional attorneys to 8 represent them, but this guy did. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Who was the third one, Buster, 10 besides Clay Steadman and -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Pickell. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: -- and Steve Pickell? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, there was three 14 of them sitting there, and I can't -- I'm sorry, I cannot 15 remember -- 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- remember who the 18 third one was. I -- I think it was part of Clay's group. 19 MS. SOVIL: Amos? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, may have been. 21 But I'm not -- certainly not asking to hold anything out. 22 That -- that's wrong. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that -- is that 24 decision made by the Judge? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think so, mm-hmm. 1-12-03 190 1 And then we'll go to Page 7, about halfway down, you have 2 Department of Public Safety, and then you have D.P.S. 3 License and Weights. Department of Public -- and these are 4 pagers that are leased. D.P.S. -- how many pagers do we 5 have with the regular D.P.S., the regular highway patrol? 6 Do you know? 7 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't know how many we 8 have. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That bill's $126. And 10 then this one person has a pager for $233. And a pager is 11 not like a cell phone, is it? I mean, the -- I mean, 12 there's just a flat fee you pay. Why is it so different? 13 MR. TOMLINSON: I think he holds his for -- 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What? 15 MR. TOMLINSON: I think he holds his bills. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, I see. 17 MR. TOMLINSON: One time. We pay them all at 18 one time. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you reckon that's 20 what it is? 21 MR. TOMLINSON: I think that's what it is. 22 Pretty sure it is. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Let's see, I've 24 got a couple more, so don't go to sleep on me. On Page 16, 25 Permanent Improvements, refrigerator. Just help me 1-12-03 191 1 understand. I'm not saying it's the wrong thing to do. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I knew you were 3 going to find that one. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: A refrigerator is not 5 a permanent improvement at my house. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If you put one in 7 recently, for the price of them, they should be. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree, and I have. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It would have been if 10 you were going from an icebox to a refrigerator. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm still in the 12 icebox stage. So, Tommy what do you think? 13 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, I'd have to -- I'd have 14 to research that one to understand -- to know exactly 15 what -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm sure there's a 17 good answer. I just would like to have it. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where was it? What 19 department? 20 MR. TOMLINSON: Are the bills in here? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 157949. 22 (Discussion off the record.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: There's the man that got the 24 refrigerator. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you the 1-12-03 192 1 refrigerator man? 2 MR. ARREOLA: Hmm-mm. 3 (Discussion off the record.) 4 MR. TOMLINSON: I remember that the -- that 5 all the build-out that was for -- for their office was to 6 come out of that line item. The bill -- I can't see where 7 the bill says where -- where it went. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Miguel, did y'all get a -- a 9 new little refrigerator down in your shop? 10 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, we did. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, that's where it is. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: That's what it is, yeah. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 14 MR. TOMLINSON: And that's -- that's -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I think you got a microwave, 16 too, down there. 17 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, sir. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: Moved moneys from -- from the 20 General Fund. It was $10,000, gross amount, to pay for 21 all -- for everything that we did down there. That was part 22 of it. We had -- really had no place else to pay for this 23 other than that $10,000. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: I think there was -- they came 25 in under, and so the -- these items, I think they -- they 1-12-03 193 1 ended up taking out of the excess that they had. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't have any 3 problem with it; I was just wondering where -- where it was 4 coming from. Very next page, Number 17, the first -- 5 Kerrville Daily Times, classified display notice, and Union 6 Church, $1,090. What might that be? 7 MS. SOVIL: What's the fund number? 8 MR. TOMLINSON: What fund number? I'm lost. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It is -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: 450. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- 660. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: Oh, okay. That -- that is 13 the Historical Commission's money. That's not County money. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: County-sponsored, and 15 the historical people come under County-sponsored. 16 MR. TOMLINSON: We are the fiscal agent 17 for -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The Friends? 19 MR. TOMLINSON: -- for the Friends. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The Friends, that's 21 what I thought. They ran a big ad about the church, didn't 22 they? 23 MR. TOMLINSON: Right. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So that's their money 25 just coming through you? 1-12-03 194 1 MR. TOMLINSON: All their expenditures come 2 through us. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And the same with the 4 calendars? 5 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what I 8 thought. I had it marked, too. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Calendars was my next 10 question. That's good. Very good, thank you. So, we're 11 just kind of a pass-through on that? 12 MR. TOMLINSON: We're just their agent. I 13 mean, as far as paying them. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's all the 15 questions I had. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Took care of mine. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: On the Constable, Precinct 2, 18 it's shown as Vehicle Repairs, 2003 Crown Vic, to JDS Paint 19 and Body. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What page are you on, 21 Judge? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Page 6, excuse me. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I can answer that. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: $392. Is that putting all the 25 decals and that stuff on? I thought -- 1-12-03 195 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir. He had some 2 actual damage. Someone, I think, at a football game keyed 3 the rear and the front of his car. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, okay. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what that was. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay. Any further 7 questions or discussion? All in favor of the motion to pay 8 the bills, signify by raising your right hand. 9 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Budget 13 amendments. Budget Amendment Request Number 1. 14 MR. TOMLINSON: This budget amendment is 15 to -- for the Sheriff's Office to transfer $1,285 from 16 Capital Outlay to Lease Payments for the lease payment on 17 his new vehicle. And, along with that, I need an authorized 18 to -- authorization to write a hand check for $10,722.54 to 19 Ford Motor Credit. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is this because the cars 21 cost more than we thought? 22 MR. TOMLINSON: Apparently. We budgeted 23 what -- what he anticipated for payments. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 1-12-03 196 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded -- is 2 that his Capital Outlay, or is that somebody else's Capital 3 Outlay? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: His. 5 MR. TOMLINSON: It's his. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Motion made and 7 seconded to approve Budget Amendment Request Number 1, 8 authorize hand check to Ford Motor Credit Corporation for 9 $10,722.54. All in favor, signify by raising your right 10 hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Budget 15 Amendment Request Number 2. 16 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 2 is for the District 17 Clerk. Her request is to transfer $430.21 from Lease Copier 18 line item to Bonds and Insurance. This is for the renewal 19 on her surety bond. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move to approve. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to 24 approve Budget Amendment Request Number 2. Any question or 25 discussion? 1-12-03 197 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just an oversight in 2 the budget? 3 MR. TOMLINSON: The premium went up. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, I see. 5 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good lord, that much? 7 MR. TOMLINSON: From last year, yes. So -- 8 so did the County Clerk's. We just don't have it yet. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or 10 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 11 your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Do we have 16 any late bills? 17 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I have before me the 19 transcript of Commissioners Court Special Session on 20 Thursday, December 4; Kerr County Commissioners Court 21 Regular Session, Monday, December 8; Kerr County 22 Commissioners Court Emergency Session, Wednesday, December 23 10; Kerr County Commissioners Court Special Session, Monday, 24 December 15; Kerr County Commissioners Court Special 25 Session, Monday, December 22, all in the calendar year 2003. 1-12-03 198 1 Do I hear a motion that those be approved as presented? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. He moved 4 and I seconded. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Motion made and 6 seconded to approve as presented. Any further question or 7 discussion? All in favor of the motion signify by raising 8 your right hand. 9 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. 13 (Discussion off the record.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I also have before me monthly 15 reports of the Sheriff's Department, Justice of the Peace 16 Precinct 4, County Clerk, Justice of the Peace Precinct 2, 17 and District Clerk, and the Youth Exhibit Center monthly 18 report, and the Environmental Health Department, Kerr County 19 O.S.S.F. monthly report for December '03. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move we accept them. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to 23 accept the monthly reports as presented. Any further 24 questions or discussion? 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I've got a question. 1-12-03 199 1 Miguel, please. The revenues for Fiscal Year '04 to-date 2 are about double -- 3 MR. ARREOLA: They are. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- on O.S.S.F. 5 licenses. Is that an anomaly, or is this -- are there more? 6 MR. ARREOLA: It is, yes. That's why I'm 7 here. I want to talk to you about that. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 9 MR. ARREOLA: Can I keep going already? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Before you get into 11 yours -- Josephina, are you here to find out about the use 12 of the courtroom for the convention? 13 AUDIENCE: Beg pardon? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I was just asking if 15 you were here to find out about the use of the courtroom for 16 the Republican Convention. Or are you just visiting? 17 AUDIENCE: I just was listening in. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Welcome. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Good to have you. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good to see you. 21 MR. ARREOLA: Okay. Got five reports. 22 MS. SOVIL: Sir, do you want to take this up 23 under reports from department heads, instead of monthly 24 reports? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, why don't we do that? 1-12-03 200 1 That would be a more appropriate -- I appreciate you 2 bringing that to my attention. Just stand fast; we'll be 3 right there, okay? Let me call, under the information 4 agenda, reports from elected officials or department heads. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Did you get those 6 accepted? 7 MS. SOVIL: You didn't vote on your monthly 8 reports. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I didn't? 10 MS. ALFORD: No. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me backtrack here. We 12 have a motion and second to approve the monthly reports as 13 presented. Any further question or discussion? All in 14 favor, signify by -- 15 MS. SOVIL: Who made the motion? 16 MS. ALFORD: Letz. 17 MS. SOVIL: Who seconded? 18 MS. ALFORD: Baldwin. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All in favor, signify by 20 raising your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Now, let 25 me call, on the information agenda, reports from elected 1-12-03 201 1 officials and department heads. First one we have is from 2 our Environmental Health Department Director. 3 MR. ARREOLA: Okay. We had a very decent 4 month in December. It was -- like Commissioner Nicholson 5 said, the fund -- the income shows almost double from the 6 prior month, and we compared that to last year's December. 7 That's basically what you have on the graphic in there. 8 That's last year, same month, and we're still a lot busier 9 than what we were last year. So, that's good for the 10 department; it runs more income. There's a lot more work. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Is that attributed 12 to more construction going on? 13 MR. ARREOLA: It is more construction, yes, 14 sir. It's the transfer still; we're doing some transfers, 15 but we're -- not as many. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. Where -- am I 17 correct that we are no longer in the business of real estate 18 transfer inspections? 19 MR. ARREOLA: That's my next point here. We 20 did receive the approval from T.C.E.Q. last Thursday or 21 Friday -- Friday. They were stamped, signed, dated the 22 22nd, but we didn't receive it until Friday, so I'm taking 23 my effective day as of Friday. Is that good? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's good. 25 MR. ARREOLA: Okay. And as of Friday, we had 1-12-03 202 1 two inspections that day, and we canceled and returned the 2 checks. We didn't do it Friday. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Good. 4 MR. ARREOLA: And we're not doing them any 5 more. For that effect, I do have a draft new application 6 that is not going to reflect anything on the transfer. I 7 have it also in your package there. It's not going to have 8 anything with transfers. Now -- yes, sir? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question. The Court 10 order -- and I don't remember; I'm asking. 11 MR. ARREOLA: I have it here. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The court order when 13 we cancelled, went with the new rules, was there an 14 effective date given there? 15 MR. ARREOLA: No. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Was there any date? 17 MR. ARREOLA: It didn't have an effective 18 date. I think it was mentioned that the day we received it 19 back from T.C.E.Q., that would be the effective date, but 20 it's not in writing. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It was a meeting 23 date. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: And I gather, from what I've 25 seen and what Mr. Arreola is telling us, that the date that 1-12-03 203 1 it was approved by T.C.E.Q. on December 22nd of last year, 2 that's the effective date of the new rules in Kerr County. 3 MR. ARREOLA: In Kerr County, we didn't know 4 of that approval, and we did some transfers during that 5 period of time until last Friday. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I would -- I 7 guess -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The date we received 9 it at the courthouse. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think it makes 11 that much difference one way or the other. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Seems like if you 13 did the inspection, it's okay to charge for it. If the 14 application was in, but the inspection wasn't done, give 15 them their money back. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Common sense, sure. 18 MR. ARREOLA: So, that's what we did. So, 19 here's -- there's the new application for us, O.S.S.F. It 20 doesn't show anything with the transfer, but there's some 21 question -- some people want to have a transfer document, so 22 we drafted a document or an application to do that for 23 people who insist to have that type of document, and we're 24 thinking about bringing a fee for those. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is this -- what's that 1-12-03 204 1 look like? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which one are we 3 talking about? 4 MR. ARREOLA: Okay. It's going to be -- let 5 me get it to you. It's right next to your application. It 6 says Application for Kerr County Registration of On-Site 7 Sewage Facility Transfer, just one page. One page. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: First page, okay. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. License 10 transfer? 11 MR. ARREOLA: License transfer, yes, sir. 12 And that is for somebody who wants to have that document. 13 According to the rules, we don't have to do anything. That 14 transfers automatically. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, we'd be 16 providing them a service. If they've got some concern 17 about -- 18 MR. ARREOLA: Exactly right. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Do we incur any 20 liability doing that? I recall one of my constituents out 21 in west Kerr County was -- had his inspected, and then it 22 passed, and then it didn't work, and he was looking for 23 somebody to sue. Let me restate my question. I think it 24 would be a good and beneficial thing to do this. I'm just 25 raising the issue, do we -- do we incur any liability by 1-12-03 205 1 doing it? 2 MR. ARREOLA: The way we're presenting 3 this -- and I also -- I don't know if I have it with me; 4 I'll look for it. I have some forms from the past during a 5 certain period of time, that the County was not doing those, 6 those transfers. We used a form that it says there's no 7 liability; this is just a paper transfer. This is just to 8 reflect the new owner name. So, we're planning to use 9 something like that if the Court agrees with it. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think I would be in 11 favor of a paper transfer, but I don't want to be inspecting 12 anything. 13 MR. ARREOLA: No, we're not going to be 14 inspecting anything at all. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So we're not going 16 to be on the ground -- 17 MR. ARREOLA: No. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- trying to tell 19 them whether or not their O.S.S.F. works? 20 MR. ARREOLA: Not going to do an inspection; 21 just going to tell them you used to have the -- this is your 22 system now. It's in somebody else's name. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm fine with that. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Your documents go to -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Change of ownership. 1-12-03 206 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 2 MR. ARREOLA: And they don't have to do that. 3 I mean, according to the rules, we don't have to. This is 4 optional, if they want to have it. But we want to charge 5 $50 to do that service. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That seems high. 7 MR. ARREOLA: Seems high? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How much? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: $50 seems high, to me. I 10 think we encourage -- I mean, $10. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the figure that came to 12 my mind. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm saying -- 14 MR. ARREOLA: That will not reflect the work 15 that we need to do. That's my problem. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All we're doing is 17 changing address. 18 MR. ARREOLA: Well, we have to take all the 19 information and review it and make sure it makes -- it 20 matches with what they're saying, and then provide a 21 document for us to say that this matches the property that 22 you're buying. We have to do some research, and we have to 23 be sure that we're doing the right thing. So it's -- it's 24 time-consuming. And that will be the only way. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why would we do it? 1-12-03 207 1 Tell me again why we want to do it if it's not required. 2 MR. ARREOLA: That is if -- like, I had some 3 people right in the office a few minutes ago; they wanted 4 something from us saying it was this person, now it's this 5 person's name. That's all they need, but something from us. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They want a 7 supporting document if, as, and when they decide to sell 8 their property, right? 9 MR. ARREOLA: Mm-hmm. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well -- well, and, 11 Commissioner, if it's aerobic, we want to know who to mail 12 one of those ugly letters to. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: $50 -- I mean, I didn't 15 understand how much work is involved. That seems high to 16 me, and I think we would want to have -- price this -- I 17 think we are better off as a county knowing the owners of 18 all the septic systems, so we want to price it as cheap as 19 possible to get people to do this. Basically, that's all 20 we're doing, as I understand, we're basically updating our 21 records. 22 MR. ARREOLA: Yeah. Well, that be pretty 23 good to have, like you said, but it will not reflect the 24 amount of work we're doing. If you want to pay for that, 25 then -- 1-12-03 208 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How about 25? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 25? I'll go with 25. 3 MR. ARREOLA: Well, $50, it will pay for its 4 own. But if -- you know, if we want to subsidize one, that 5 be fine. You tell us. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Wait a minute. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How long does it take 8 you, all this hard work you're talking about? How long does 9 it take you to do that? 10 MR. ARREOLA: Well, say, just to research, 11 about an hour. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: $25 for an hour is 13 fair -- pretty fair number, isn't it? 14 MR. ARREOLA: It's more what they get for the 15 hour. 16 MS. SOVIL: What are you researching? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Files. Files. 18 MS. SOVIL: What kind of files? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Their files. 20 MS. SOVIL: It's always been in the person's 21 name. My septic tank is -- is at 104 Joshua. Doesn't 22 matter who owns it, the septic tank's at 104 Joshua. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Unless you had a leak, 24 and one of your neighbors -- 25 MR. ARREOLA: We have to verify the legal 1-12-03 209 1 description of the property, make sure it stays the same. 2 Sometimes they subdivide the property. Sometimes it's just 3 not two lots in there, and just be careful not to give them 4 a document that doesn't show what really is there. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think we've talked 6 about a goal on this -- this operation and some of them 7 similar to that, of being self-sustaining; that revenues 8 equal costs. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's kind of where 10 I'm coming from. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If it costs $50 -- it 12 just seems high to me, but if that's what it costs, we can 13 do it. But I think the other side of it is, we want 14 accurate -- 15 MR. ARREOLA: You know, this is always -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- data. 17 MR. ARREOLA: This is optional; they don't 18 have to do it if they don't want to. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Would we all agree 20 that 35 is a nice compromise? 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Sure. At quarter of 22 3:00, I'll agree to anything. 23 MR. ARREOLA: Yeah. I don't know if we need 24 to put an agenda item for this. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: We would to set that fee. 1-12-03 210 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To set the fees, we'll 2 have to have an agenda item. 3 MR. ARREOLA: Okay. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Think about it. If it 5 takes $50, recommend that, but let's try to get it as low as 6 we can. I mean -- 7 MR. ARREOLA: Okay. Now, a little -- coming 8 back a little bit to that graphic, I would like to point to 9 you the -- the difference with the applications, as that's 10 not exactly shown in the report, the difference from last 11 year to this year, and that is all new applications. That's 12 all new systems, so that's new work coming to the county. 13 That's growing. It's a lot of construction going on. So, 14 we are -- we are having a lot. You can also see in the 15 number of inspections we had to do compared to the last 16 year, so we -- we are being pretty easy on the other side. 17 We didn't have that much time to do paperwork; that's why 18 licenses doesn't show as high. But we -- we are now making 19 up for last month. It's been pretty consistent, pretty busy 20 since November. Since last -- last half of November, it was 21 starting to be pretty busy. So, it continues. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Good. 23 MR. ARREOLA: And it's not stopping. Going 24 pretty hard. Let's see what else I have. I did call -- or 25 Tish called the T.C.E.Q. We got in a letter that we didn't 1-12-03 211 1 receive for the approval, and they asked us why are we doing 2 inspections on the U.G.R.A. jurisdiction. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why we what? 4 MR. ARREOLA: Are we doing inspections on the 5 U.G.R.A. jurisdiction. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: The 1,500 feet? 7 MR. ARREOLA: Exactly right. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 'Cause that's Kerr 9 County jurisdiction also. 10 MR. ARREOLA: Well, I did check their 11 authorized agents in the county. They don't have us. They 12 still have us as the U.G.R.A., and the U.G.R.A. having their 13 own. I don't know if we need to contact them, call them or 14 clarify this. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My understanding from 16 talking with Ken Graber was that the reason for the delay in 17 getting our order approved was waiting on U.G.R.A. to give 18 up their authorized agent status. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: That's that was my 20 understanding also. And they just did that about 21 mid-December, as I recall, early to mid-December. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I suspect the records 23 haven't been modified to reflect the -- 24 MR. ARREOLA: The day this was modified was 25 December 19th, and I printed today. This did show it, so I 1-12-03 212 1 don't know if we should wait just one more month. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You just might mention -- 3 or send this to -- fax this to Ken Graber and say, "Update 4 your records." 5 MR. ARREOLA: Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's new? 7 MR. ARREOLA: Okay. And that's what I have. 8 Just for your information, tomorrow I have a meeting with 9 Scott Loveland at U.G.R.A. for the public education program 10 that we have. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Good. 12 MR. ARREOLA: Going to be starting with that. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Good. You might roll 14 Solid Waste into the same education program. 15 MR. ARREOLA: The same? Get them together? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Get them together. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Question. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Get U.G.R.A. to pay for 19 it. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One quickie question. 21 On your third bar graph here, your income -- 22 MR. ARREOLA: Yeah? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- it says KYTD. 24 What is "K"? 25 MR. ARREOLA: Thousands. Thousands. 1-12-03 213 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thousands of dollars? 2 MR. ARREOLA: Uh-huh. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Wow. Okay. 4 MR. ARREOLA: Is that correct? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I thought it was kiero. 7 Just teasing. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Miguel, how's it 9 going? 10 MR. ARREOLA: It's going pretty good. We 11 haven't had any complaints that I know about, unless you 12 know someone that I don't. We've been very busy, but we've 13 been able to assist everybody. We haven't hold anybody up 14 or miss any inspections. We are booked. We are booked all 15 week, and part of next week. So, you know, if someone call 16 in for inspection today, and they have no room until next 17 week, you might hear about that, but we are very busy. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: You're all settled in 19 downstairs? Got everything you need to work with? 20 MR. ARREOLA: We got all the equipment. We 21 still need to move some stuff around. We haven't had time 22 to move it, but we got what we needed to work. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Ever get your parking 24 spots? 25 MR. ARREOLA: My what? 1-12-03 214 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Parking spaces. 2 MR. ARREOLA: Yeah, we did have -- we got 3 them. We got them for the vehicles, so everything is 4 working okay. I'm still working on -- I need some new tires 5 for one of the jeeps and things like that, but -- and 6 they're going pretty good. Pretty good. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, good. 8 MS. SOVIL: Do we need to look at the 9 interlocal agreements with the City of Kerrville and the 10 City of Ingram for O.S.S.F. stuff? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't know. Do we? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, they're 13 interlocals between the cities -- the two cities and 14 U.G.R.A. They need to be amended and corrected to reflect 15 interlocals between those two cities and Kerr County. 16 MR. ARREOLA: City of Ingram has their own 17 program, so we don't -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Then that one goes 19 away. 20 MR. ARREOLA: Yeah, but we still -- we used 21 to have the City of Kerrville and U.G.R.A. You know, we 22 need to revise that and get with the County Attorney. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably ought to 24 formally cancel the one with the City of Ingram. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't think we had 1-12-03 215 1 one with the City of Ingram, did we? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: U.G.R.A. did at one 3 time, and then they determined to do their own program, as 4 Miguel said. 5 MR. ARREOLA: Yeah. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And I guess the 7 contract just stayed in the file or whatever. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. Their -- 9 their Designated Agent is Wes Aiken. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Aiken. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 12 MR. ARREOLA: Do you want me to contact the 13 City of Kerrville, or do you guys want to do that? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. I'd say yes. 15 MR. ARREOLA: Okay. And that is a no-charge 16 contract? I haven't gone to the attorney's office or -- how 17 do we do it? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess I would -- I 19 wouldn't go that far yet. I'd just find out -- let's just 20 get -- you know, I don't even -- didn't even know you were 21 doing this in Kerrville. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why don't we 23 research, see what happened in the past? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: See what we've been doing 25 in the past. I mean, I don't think it's a no-charge 1-12-03 216 1 contract, in my opinion. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't, either. I 3 think there was a fee. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, I think that -- I 5 mean, probably just talk to the City Manager and say, you 6 know, this was -- we had this before. City had it with -- 7 interlocal with the U.G.R.A., and do they want to continue? 8 And if the answer is no, then we don't have to worry about 9 it. If the answer is yes, we need to have a new contract. 10 MR. ARREOLA: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The finance guy at 12 U.G.R.A. could tell you the answer to that, going back in 13 history for two or three, four years or whatever. 14 MR. ARREOLA: Mm-hmm. 15 (Discussion off the record.) 16 MR. ARREOLA: Okay. Any other questions for 17 me? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: That's all you got for us, 19 Miguel? 20 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, sir. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. We appreciate 22 it very much. 23 MR. ARREOLA: Thank you. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you going to be 25 in your office the rest of the afternoon? 1-12-03 217 1 MR. ARREOLA: I got two inspections. Do you 2 need me? I got two inspections, which -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's your extension 4 number? 5 MR. ARREOLA: Gosh, I don't know. 6 MS. SOVIL: I just know the number, 896-9020. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I may want to put a 8 message out to you after I've talked to you. 9 MR. ARREOLA: I'll get you the number. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Miguel. 12 MR. ARREOLA: You're welcome. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Do we have any other elected 14 officials that wish to give us reports? Obviously not. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Except me. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Reports from Commissioners, 17 and/or liaison committee assignments. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I have a sort of 19 report that -- that Commissioner Williams may want to join 20 me on. I put a copy in your -- each of your in-box of the 21 minutes of the last Joint Airport Advisory Board meeting. 22 This is probably a -- as good a way as any to keep the rest 23 of you updated as to what is going on in there. And one of 24 the issues there in that meeting is that Commissioner 25 Williams asked Dr. Davis, Chairman of the Board, and David 1-12-03 218 1 Pearce, Airport Manager, to attend the Commissioners Court 2 work session to brief the Commissioners on the Capital 3 Improvement Projects that were approved by the Board. I -- 4 I would like to see that happen. I'd like for everybody on 5 this Commissioners Court to see what -- what the plan is. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We'll probably come 7 near getting David here -- Pearce here, because of 8 availability, than we will Dr. Davis, whose schedule's 9 pretty full. But, yeah. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I recall that some 11 time ago -- some months ago, we asked our members of that 12 group to visit with us, and that hasn't happened, so -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One of them came to our 14 last meeting. I think it's more appropriate for the Airport 15 Manager to do the presentation. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Granger came. 17 Granger MacDonald came. Getting with Dr. Davis is -- he's 18 not going to be able to take away from his practice to come 19 sit in Commissioners Court for two hours. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The other thing I 21 wanted to say about the airport, I suppose everybody got a 22 copy of this letter from Nelson Happy to Stephen Fine and 23 the Kerr County Commissioners Court proposing a -- a 24 contract. I think the right thing to do is get that on the 25 next agenda. Or is there a better way to deal with it? 1-12-03 219 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I thought the contract 2 was being worked from the City's side. That's the way it's 3 been up to this -- to this moment. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All this time. And I 6 got that, and I -- I didn't pay much attention to it because 7 of -- looked like, to me, an information sheet, as opposed 8 to some kind of legal document. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think that point's 10 been one of my frustrations, is that I think that the City 11 and the County need to meet, determine what those terms are 12 going to be, and then set something forward and negotiate. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that's the 14 whole point. You know, I think that's the whole point. And 15 Nelson Happy's letter brings it, again, clearly into focus 16 that we have to settle the issue of who's on first and who's 17 on second and how's it going to happen. 'Cause, you know, 18 the Commissioner's right, we need to have our -- the person 19 who's responsible needs to be the front person in terms of 20 contract proposals and County proposals and responses and 21 this and that. And that letter is nothing more than a 22 rehash of what he has had on his desk, giving back to us as 23 his idea, with some exceptions. So, I think, again, we've 24 got to get the thing resolved. I know you've met with a 25 couple City Councilmen. I, too, have met with them -- one 1-12-03 220 1 of them; he was in court this morning. And he wanted to 2 make the point that while your proposal to the Court, 3 just -- whenever it was I did it. Last meeting in December? 4 I don't remember when it was. Said it probably wouldn't fly 5 in light of my interpretation of the Transportation Code. I 6 said, "My proposal to Commissioners Court did precisely what 7 it was intended to do, and that's to get people off of their 8 rear end down here on the other end of the street to get 9 something moving." And so it had -- I hope it had the 10 desired effect. And then I asked him in return, would you 11 please find out from the Assistant City Attorney when 12 Commissioners can expect the document she promised that -- 13 that gives us the basis of these discussions. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: While we're on the 15 airport, I mean, I did have a meeting with Councilmen Brown 16 and Smith, and I did that shortly after it was in the San 17 Antonio and Kerrville paper that the City spends $276,000 18 more than the County does. And I sent a memo to Ron 19 Patterson the day after those articles came out asking him 20 to gave me documentation to support that -- those numbers, 21 because that was not what people said at our joint meeting, 22 and this is the first I'd ever heard those -- such numbers. 23 He -- I've been told now three times, those numbers are in 24 the process of being created. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Created? 1-12-03 221 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I use that word very 2 intentionally. In the -- I was told, as of this morning, it 3 will be sometime next week, which is, interestingly, four 4 weeks after they came up with this number. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which I, too, 6 mentioned it to City Councilman Brown when he and I had 7 lunch together, and he said essentially what you said, 8 although he expected those numbers would be revised and 9 available this week. My response to Zeke McCormick and 10 anybody else who asked the question about those numbers is, 11 they're bogus. That's absolutely bogus numbers. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, anyway, so that 13 is -- is working is the -- I think some of the City Council 14 people are aware of our frustrations, and I think that's the 15 -- you know, the -- at least they're aware. I was hoping to 16 meet with Ron Patterson this afternoon, but the length of 17 this meeting's going to preclude that from happening. But, 18 you know, I think we need to move forward on it. I'm trying 19 to say that we're -- you know, I'm not going to let this 20 thing die. We need to get it resolved. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Neither will I. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: One of the interesting 23 things in that document you have in your hand there, though, 24 that Mooney wants to -- they want to cut out some of their 25 rental space; they don't want to rent it any more, but they 1-12-03 222 1 would like to keep their equipment inside the building, if 2 they could. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm not thinking 4 about the merits of the proposal, but it is a proposal, and 5 as co-owners, we should have some role in responding to the 6 proposal. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, okay. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We have not 9 delegated Ron Patterson to represent our -- our ownership 10 interest. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's one of the 12 bones of contention. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's put on it the 14 agenda and respond to it. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I suspect that if 17 it's not up for discussion at Wednesday's meeting, there 18 ought to be some way to broach the topic. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Wednesday's airport 20 meeting? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I think that 23 brings up -- we've been talking about this for almost a year 24 now, because of this leasing situation, and we're back to 25 the same situation that if -- you know, if the Airport Board 1-12-03 223 1 is not going to negotiate that lease, we need to go after 2 competitive bidding, I guess. I don't know how you do it. 3 Renew -- a renewal first. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We don't have to do 5 it. That was our own County Attorney that told you you 6 don't have to do it. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If the Board does it. If 8 we do it, we do, as I recall. But, anyway -- 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What's going to 10 happen next on this whole issue of -- of the City and the 11 County's relationship on managing the airport? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: As I understand it, we're 13 waiting on the City Manager to give us a draft proposal. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what I was 15 referring to a moment ago. Ilse Bailey told us in that memo 16 she sent here that I provided to the Court last time out, 17 she would have a document ready as a basis for discussion by 18 mid-January. Well, it's coming up pretty close to 19 mid-January. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it needs to be on 21 our next agenda to have the City Manager come up, present 22 that proposal. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll be happy to put 24 it on. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You know -- 1-12-03 224 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Put this one on, 2 too. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm looking to one of you 4 two -- I mean, you two being one of the two Commissioners on 5 the liaisons. Okay. 6 (Discussion off the record.) 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have another topic, if 8 I might. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Are you through, Commissioner 10 Nicholson? 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes, sir. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just an update on Hermann 13 Sons. I just wanted to keep everyone a little bit aware 14 of -- on that. My recollection is that the Court kind of 15 gave me -- told me to get the right-of-way done. I met 16 with -- the issue came up on title insurance, and I might -- 17 the County Attorney talked about this a little bit. He was 18 a little bit -- you know, didn't have a strong 19 recommendation one way or the other, whether we had title 20 insurance on these new acquisitions. He chose -- County 21 Attorney chose to use Fidelity Abstract, so I met with Jimmy 22 Peschel on it, and I -- I pretty much made the decision and 23 then told the County Attorney, I think we need to have title 24 insurance on this. For -- even though, customarily, we do 25 not on right-of-way acquisitions, but since we're putting a 1-12-03 225 1 $1.3 million bridge on these right-of-way acquisitions, that 2 it was a little bit different. And also, TexDOT does 3 require title insurance on all their right-of-ways, and 4 since this is a TexDOT-funded project, I just went ahead and 5 followed -- you know, it is -- be about $1,500, I understand 6 it, additional cost. But I -- I didn't want to be the 7 Commissioner that raised my hand to build a $1.3 million 8 bridge on property that had issues. So -- 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Title to. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Didn't have title to. 11 So, that is progressing. We do have verbal agreement 12 basically with everybody. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All of the -- all of the 14 persons from whom we need right-of-way, you think we've got 15 it nailed down? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have -- Mr. Roarick, 17 we have not, but we -- he's kind of said he didn't like the 18 price. He's a -- he bought the property of Mr. Steen. But 19 the -- the tract we've had a lot of difficulty with, 20 Mr. Tijerina, has agreed to accept our original offer. And 21 we're -- that's our priority, to get that one locked up 22 first. And we will -- we're working with the County 23 Attorney. We should hopefully have those deeds and the 24 money within two weeks, prepared. That's it. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: How about you, Commissioner 1-12-03 226 1 Williams? What do you got? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just want to -- one 3 quickie here. In terms -- nothing under 5.1, 'cause we just 4 talked about that, with the -- except one caveat. At the 5 Wednesday meeting, discussion of the governance has been 6 placed on the agenda by Dr. Davis. So, there would be -- I 7 would think, in terms of how they operate now, it's probably 8 nothing more than to elicit expressions from the various 9 board members about how they feel about the issue. I know 10 that our board members that we've appointed are going to 11 feel like we need to get this thing straightened out. 12 I was -- switching to 5.3, on reports, on 13 joint projects, one of my discussions with Councilman Brown 14 had to do with the library, and I provided Councilman Brown 15 a copy of my -- as I did you, a copy of my memorandum to 16 County Attorney Motley regarding the things I think that 17 need to be addressed in the renewal of the agreement, and so 18 he's aware, and he'll do whatever homework he wants to do on 19 his end with respect to that. There's nothing particularly 20 earth-shattering in there, just things that need to be 21 addressed. But, we did get off on -- he and I got off on 22 the topic of long-range planning, again, having to do with 23 the library facility. I think anybody that uses the library 24 or knows about the cost of operations of the library and its 25 utilization knows that that very fine facility that was 1-12-03 227 1 given to us by Butt-Holdsworth folks way back when is 2 overutilized. And, to complicate that, how you -- how you 3 go about improving that facility, then you get involved with 4 the Friends of the Library, who -- which is a very 5 aggressive, energetic organization that has -- has a deep 6 and abiding interest in the library and raises a lot of 7 money over the years for the library. And they were -- they 8 believe they were principally involved in getting the 9 funding to purchase that piece of -- that facility between 10 the library and the historical building. 11 All of which is to say, the City's about to 12 vacate that; that building is probably going to get torn 13 down. There will be -- probably be a push to figure out how 14 to utilize the grounds in the future for expansion of 15 library facilities. That said, I saw your utilization step 16 that said Councilman Brown and I are going to see if we can 17 facilitate some discussions with the Friends and the Chair 18 of the Library Board, with a view toward getting some 19 planning sessions underway that will take a look at where 20 the Butt-Holdsworth Library is to go in the future. Not -- 21 not physically relocated, but how the facility can be 22 brought up to its utilization, its requirement for 23 utilization. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Bill, on that, is -- 25 either you or Commissioner Baldwin, please correct me if I'm 1-12-03 228 1 wrong. I recall at a joint meeting several years ago, this 2 came up about the utilization of that property, and it was 3 clearly pointed out that that additional property is City 4 property and the County has nothing to do with that. It is 5 not going to pay a penny for anything on that property. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's true. I'm not 7 suggesting that. I'm not suggesting that. But the 8 utilization of the property, what's going to happen with it, 9 is obviously going to be a topic of big discussion coming 10 up, either between the Friends and the Library Advisory 11 Board and so forth. And is the library going to expand? If 12 so, how and where? How is that facility or that ground 13 going to be used in the meantime? And if you have to look 14 at it, a realistic view over the long haul, whatever happens 15 down the line, whether we participate in capital 16 expenditures for expansion/improvement of the library or 17 not, is going to affect our commitment for funding on an 18 annualized basis. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But what I'm saying is, 20 if -- and I remember it because I talked about paving; you 21 know, how they're going to keep track of paving their part 22 of the parking lot versus our part. And the Mayor's comment 23 was, this will be funded under a different fund. So, that 24 property is not part of the library. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not right now, it's 1-12-03 229 1 not. It's titled to the City. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. But there's no -- 3 I mean, to my mind, it's going to be a big step for me to 4 start doing much stuff on that piece of property, because -- 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't see us going 6 there, Commissioner. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or doing anything. 9 But -- 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I'm just saying, 11 you're meeting with the City and the Friends. That property 12 is not the Butt-Holdsworth Library. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not now. Neither the 14 historical building -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not ever, in my mind. I 16 mean, that's a different -- that's a City facility, and if 17 they can do it -- the City can do what they want, but it has 18 no impact on Butt-Holdsworth Library. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: As you and I know 20 Butt-Holdsworth Library today. I think you have to realize, 21 as you and I know Butt-Holdsworth Library today. But we may 22 know Butt-Holdsworth Library and its operations on a 23 day-to-day basis differently in the future. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What I'm saying is, they 25 can't do that without coming to us and doing that. They 1-12-03 230 1 can't arbitrarily expand the library into a bunch of City 2 property and expect to us pay half of it. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I think that -- 4 I think all that has to evolve. I don't disagree with you. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. I just want to 6 make sure that they're aware that that property has nothing 7 to do with the Butt-Holdsworth Library at this point, and it 8 will not have anything to do with that property until this 9 Commissioners Court says it does. Not when the City's -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Clearly acknowledged, 11 that's true. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just want to make -- I 13 mean, I'm not -- 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Your point's 15 well-taken. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Because I brought it up. 17 And I'm not being argumentative with the City on this point, 18 but that we've talked about it and they said, "No. No, this 19 has nothing to do with the library." It's -- I said, "Okay, 20 fine." 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: At this point, it 22 doesn't, that's right. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, where does the 24 Airport Board meet? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: City Hall. 1-12-03 231 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: On Wednesday? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: City Hall at 4:30. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Incidentally, on -- a 4 quick thing back on the airport. They said that, because of 5 the -- of this being a created number, 376,000, it made 6 sense to me -- I mean, I know that the -- or I shouldn't 7 say -- I don't know it. I imagine that the City is using 8 all kinds of numbers to create that number as big as it can 9 be. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What was it, legal 11 fees? And what -- 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Administrative. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Administrative. 14 That's something else. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Street department. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There's Street 17 Department, engineering fees, engineer -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Engineering and legal. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Engineering and legal. 20 That's all it was originally. But, anyway -- but I think 21 that the -- just from the standpoint -- I tried to come up 22 with how many times we've had to deal with the airport in 23 the last 12 months. It's been on our agenda 12 times, and 24 considering we don't have the paid staff that they're 25 lumping all their numbers into, I've kind of taken it upon 1-12-03 232 1 myself to come up with a -- a ballpark number as to how much 2 money we contribute to the -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I reminded the City 4 Councilmen that -- that we don't have paid staff to do all 5 these things for us. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But we say that; however, 7 that doesn't mean that there's not taxpayer's money, being 8 part -- a portion of our salaries and Thea's salary and the 9 County Clerk and the County Auditor, that are spent in time 10 administering that airport. And, conservatively, based on 11 numbers I come up with, it's about $50,000. And I think 12 that -- 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Great argument for us 14 when we sit down to hash out what that number really is. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think we need to 16 remember that. And, you know, because they are -- they 17 cannot include their staff time and not include our time. 18 That's just my point. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That'll be fun. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that all you got, 21 Commissioner Williams? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Isn't that enough, 23 Judge? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: If you got more, we'll listen. 25 Commissioner Baldwin? 1-12-03 233 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir. No, sir, 2 9-1-1 is the only thing on my mind, and we took care of that 3 in the agenda item. Thank you. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Any other -- any 5 other report in connection with joint projects or 6 operations? No Road and Bridge, no Maintenance. Unless 7 some of you gentlemen got something that's on here that I 8 missed, I don't see anything else before us. We'll stand 9 adjourned. 10 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 3:11 p.m.) 11 - - - - - - - - - - 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1-12-03 234 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 5 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 6 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 7 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 21st day of January, 8 2004. 9 10 11 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 12 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 13 Certified Shorthand Reporter 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1-12-03