1 2 3 4 5 6 7 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 8 Emergency Session 9 Wednesday, January 28, 2004 10 9:00 a.m. 11 Commissioners' Courtroom 12 Kerr County Courthouse 13 Kerrville, Texas 14 15 16 17 18 BURN BAN 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 DAVE NICHOLSON, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 On Wednesday, January 28, 2004, at 9:00 a.m., an emergency 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in the 3 Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville, 4 Texas, and the following proceedings were had in open court: 5 P R O C E E D I N G S 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning. Let's come to 7 order. It's a bit after 9 o'clock, the posted time for a 8 special emergency Commissioners Court meeting for Wednesday, 9 January 28th at 9 a.m, the year 2004. The item on the 10 agenda is consider and discuss burn ban for Kerr County. I 11 believe you were the one that requested the meeting, 12 Commissioner Baldwin? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. Thank you 14 very much. I've had a couple of phone calls from some 15 members of my precinct that -- with concerns of the burn 16 ban, and so I have asked the fire chief of Upper Turtle 17 Creek, Mr. Tim Ahrens, if he would please come to the court 18 and just kind of give a report of the fire activity and 19 what's going on out in his area. Tim, if you'd just step up 20 here somewhere where we can hear you. Some of these guys 21 are wearing hearing aids and don't know when to go by 22 batteries and all that. So -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Some of them forgot 24 to bring them. 25 MR. AHRENS: Good morning. We've been real 1-28-04 3 1 busy up in Turtle Creek. Right now, the grass is extremely 2 dead, like it always is about this time of the year. And 3 even if we get some good rain, yeah, it gets nice and wet, 4 but as soon as the wind starts up, the sun comes out, the 5 grass is still dead and just gets real dry, so it's very 6 prone to getting caught on fire. Sunday, we had 20 acres up 7 in the top end of Upper Turtle Creek; it was started by a 8 controlled burn that the guy had lit when it was raining, 9 and the next day the wind came up, you know, just a dry 10 front came through and caught it. So, it was about 11 20 acres. Monday, we had about 50 acres up on Medina 12 Mountain. It was, again, started by a guy that lit a 13 controlled burn the previous day. Although, since he lit it 14 on Monday, it was really too windy to even burn then. 15 It blew across the -- you know, the real tall 16 grass is, you know, 2 and a half feet tall or so, and so it 17 -- if we get some good flames going, it dries it out and 18 just blows across. It went over into another ranch, and I'd 19 say it was probably split about 25 acres on each side. And, 20 on that fire, we had Center Point and Ingram, and Kerrville 21 came out and helped us as well, so we had, like, 22 guys out 22 there working for about four or five hours. Yesterday we 23 had a 5-acre one that was started by a guy doing a 24 controlled burn. Two of these were lit by people that have 25 pretty large ranches, and they've been doing burns for a 1-28-04 4 1 while, but they just weren't very careful in making sure 2 that the grass around the burn was either not there or it 3 was cut significantly lower. The guy yesterday was just a 4 landowner, small landowner, that it just got away from him. 5 I guess the concern is -- is not so much for 6 folks doing prescribed burns and such, 'cause normally they 7 have people come out. Like they burned, like, 100 or 8 125 acres up in Real Ranches here about three weeks ago, I 9 guess, and they had some professional guys come out doing 10 it. They had four-wheelers with little pumps and everything 11 else, and a lot of smoke, real impressive, but it didn't go 12 anywhere other than where it was supposed to. So, our 13 concern is -- is not really for those people, 'cause they 14 know what they're doing. It's for the folks that do burn, 15 and they think it's out and they go into town and come back, 16 and, oh my goodness, the whole place is burned up. So, just 17 some concerns we've got. We're not really, I don't think, 18 going to see any relief of this until probably starting 19 early spring when the grass starts to green up, and it'll be 20 a real nice time then, because everything will be starting 21 to green and we won't have the issue any more. So, I 22 thought I'd come and just let you know what our concerns 23 are. And -- I know a blanket burn ban is real tough to do 24 from y'all's perspective, and there is stuff that does need 25 to be burned out there. Somehow we've got to get the 1-28-04 5 1 message out to these folks to burn responsibly, and -- and 2 you know, how to do it. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You may want to say 4 that a little bit louder so the newspaper can pick up those 5 words. 6 MR. AHRENS: I don't know if I can go back 7 and start over again. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's the "burn 9 responsibly" part that's the key. 10 MR. AHRENS: I saw something this morning 11 that they were pushing for a county fire marshal. So -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tim, I guess you -- you 13 touched on it, and I'm trying to figure out how we do what 14 we need to do. I mean, obviously, you're aware of -- you're 15 saying that we need to do agricultural controlled burns, and 16 it seems to me that people are calling or saying, as an 17 excuse, they're doing a controlled burn, but it was not 18 possible to do a controlled burn under state law on Monday. 19 I mean, they may say they were doing a controlled burn, but 20 with 20 mile-an-hour winds, you can't do those. 21 MR. AHRENS: That's against the rules. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's against the rules. 23 The State has some pretty good rules, you know. But the 24 other side of it is, it really is a bottleneck when you have 25 -- when everyone that wants to do a true controlled burn and 1-28-04 6 1 they know what they're doing, to have to go through the 2 NRCS, because they get bottlenecks; they just don't have the 3 staff to check every person that wants to do a burn. 4 MR. AHRENS: Mm-hmm. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And then you -- and you 6 did mention, and I agree, that by, you know, March, April -- 7 you said spring, we'll have green grass and the problem goes 8 away. Well, the problem is, the controlled burns need to be 9 done basically by the -- by the first of March. I mean, 10 after that, they're -- you start doing damage because you 11 start burning the green grass. 12 MR. AHRENS: Right. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I -- I don't -- you 14 know, I think the key is -- is to try to educate people. 15 But, obviously, we're not doing a very good job on that, 16 because people are starting fires when they shouldn't. I'm 17 trying -- I don't know what else to do, what we should do. 18 We can go back to making them go through the NRCS, but 19 that's really a hardship on that agency, 'cause they don't 20 have the staff to do it, and it's a hardship on the 21 ranchers, because they -- you know, the NRCS wants to go 22 out, look at the site; they can get to one or two a day. 23 MR. AHRENS: Right. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, you know, I mean, 25 what I wish would happen is that somebody like the guy that 1-28-04 7 1 had 20 -- you know, the 50-acre fire, if that guy would file 2 a lawsuit against the guy that started it, and maybe get 3 some damage recovery, and maybe people will quit doing these 4 things. But I understand that's not a very friendly thing 5 to do to your neighbor, either. So -- 6 MR. AHRENS: Right. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So I don't know. You 8 know, I'm -- I'm rambling, I know. I don't know -- you 9 probably don't either -- what we should do. How do we 10 handle it? How do we allow responsible burning? 11 MR. AHRENS: You know, a lot of these people 12 don't call anybody. They just go out and do it. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. It's -- 14 MR. AHRENS: It would be nice if there was a 15 requirement to -- to have them actually, you know, call. 16 Whether they call the Sheriff, police department, whatever, 17 so at least we know where it's going to be. Like, for that 18 burn that the guy did that turned into the 50-acre, I saw 19 the smoke. I had no clue where it was, and nobody else did 20 either. But then the next day, it turned into the other 21 fire. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. That's a good 23 point. I don't know if we have the authority to do that; we 24 have -- you know, I mean, we could refer this to the County 25 Attorney, or maybe one of us knows -- to fine people that 1-28-04 8 1 don't call them in. Because I talked to Danny Morales last 2 night, and he -- actually, I talked to him three times. 3 First time, he was trying to find a fire where they saw the 4 smoke. 5 MR. AHRENS: Yeah. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But -- and it turned out 7 it was in Kendall County. They blamed it on me; they 8 thought it was me burning. His biggest complaint, if we can 9 just stress to the public to call it in. I mean, just -- 10 and say, "We are burning here." That helps the fire 11 department so much, 'cause then, one, if it does get out of 12 control, they know where it is. And if they get a call, 13 then they -- you know, they kind of know what's going on 14 ahead of time. And, you know, burning responsibly -- what 15 would probably be more important to me is calling in every 16 fire. Even if you're just lighting one brush pile, call in. 17 It's a -- it would help a lot, I think. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If they're going to 19 be irresponsible and start a fire when the winds are 20 whipping at 35 miles an hour, they're going to be 21 irresponsible and they're not going to call it in. It's 22 just not going to happen. I thought the Sheriff stood here 23 and told us on some prior occasion that, you know, it is -- 24 it is an offense after we've set a burn ban, and they have 25 the authority to issue a citation. I don't know what that 1-28-04 9 1 -- the class, kind of misdemeanor -- what is it, Judge, 2 Class C? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Be either C or possibly a B. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A C or a B, and there 5 should be some kind of a fine that goes with that. But, 6 once again, it's -- it's finding the person to take 7 responsibility. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would think the 9 property owner. 10 MR. AHRENS: That's also when the burn ban is 11 in effect. So, like, what we've had the last couple days, 12 that wouldn't even -- we couldn't touch those folks. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I talked to Center 14 Point fire people who answered that call with you folks, and 15 he said that thing could have been really bad. 16 MR. AHRENS: Yeah. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It was bad, but it 18 could have been a lot worse. Talked to Elm Pass fire chief 19 this morning, and he said, "My preference is to have it on." 20 MR. AHRENS: Mm-hmm. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Class C misdemeanor. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Class C. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I talked to Mountain 24 Home and Hunt, and they both said that exact same thing that 25 Mr. Ahrens said. They also said what Commissioner Letz 1-28-04 10 1 said, that it's important that people call them in when 2 they're going to have a burn. And one of the reasons it's 3 important is so they don't wind up answering false alarms; 4 somebody sees smoke and calls 9-1-1. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Who knows the law well 7 enough to -- seemed like to me, in the back of my mind, that 8 it is illegal to burn in certain amounts of wind anyway. I 9 mean, you know, there's a time frame; you can't burn 30 10 minutes after dark and those kinds of things, but something 11 to do with the wind, and I can't remember what that -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not sure the amount, 13 but there is -- I know if it's over 20 miles an hour, you 14 can't burn. T.C.E.Q. has statewide rules. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Statewide. That's 16 Class C misdemeanor, punishable by fine not to exceed $500. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think a few of those 18 would probably slow it down. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It would slow me down, 20 I can tell you that. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, you know, and I -- 22 you know, I think I -- Commissioner Baldwin called me and -- 23 about the meeting today, and I'm in favor of doing the 24 county-wide burn ban again. I'm inclined to suspend it for 25 my precinct for a short period of time, based on the weather 1-28-04 11 1 forecast I looked at today, and we have some clouds coming 2 in for -- you know, some drizzle tonight. 3 MR. AHRENS: Right. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tomorrow should be a -- 5 you know, a -- hopefully, should be a fairly safe time to 6 burn. But I don't have a real problem, if it starts getting 7 bad at all, to go back to the -- you know, you have to have 8 it approved by NRCS, either. That doesn't solve all the 9 problems; you can still have their fires get away, but it's 10 less likelihood. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: One of the problems 12 about putting a burn ban on today, and then it is supposed 13 to rain tomorrow. 14 MR. AHRENS: Right. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, we put it on today 16 and take it off tomorrow? You know, that's -- that's -- 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We put it on today 18 and suspend it by precinct, like we've done before, which I 19 would do if we put on it today; I'll suspend it for the 20 balance of this week, wait to see what happens. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: My fire chiefs are 23 telling me that the rain gives everybody a false sense of 24 security; that we get a good rain and then the wind comes 25 along, dries out the -- 1-28-04 12 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what's he's 2 telling us. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You can be up to 4 your ankles in mud and get an out-of-control fire. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But you have to -- I 6 mean, but those that want to burn, those conditions tend -- 7 I mean, it is potentially better than having dry ground and 8 dry grass. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's right. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: People have to look at 11 the fuel content, the amount of tons per acre estimate. I 12 mean, there's lots of things that go into burning. And, 13 unfortunately, most people don't understand that. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Common sense. It's 15 common sense. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And you can put it in 17 scientific terms, like tons per acre, or you can say, "If 18 the grass is high, be careful." 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't know about 20 all of the volunteer fire departments, but I think the Hunt 21 department will come out and -- with a truck and monitor 22 your fire for a fee. I think it's $200; it's not cheap. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. Well, I'll make a 24 motion -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait just a second. I 1-28-04 13 1 just wanted to make -- I just wanted to make a sideline note 2 here. Just -- it's related a little bit here to -- it is 3 related to fire departments. I wanted to let y'all know 4 that Mr. Ahrens and I -- and he's the fire chief of Upper 5 Turtle Creek, but that includes Kerrville South. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And part of Lower 7 Turtle Creek. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And part of Lower 9 Turtle Creek. 10 MR. AHRENS: Right. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And he and I have 12 begun talks of possibly creating a -- a fire district for 13 that area. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That would be very 15 good. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I know. I knew you 17 would like that. And -- and, of course, the long-term goal 18 would -- one of the long-term goals would be a new fire 19 station, new fire department in the Kerrville South area. 20 Of course, that's way down the road, but anyway, we -- we're 21 talking about that, and he's way ahead of me. I just called 22 him and mentioned it to him, and he already has numbers 23 running and everything else. So, Tim -- Tim is -- handles 24 that very, very, very well. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I thought -- 1-28-04 14 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm glad you brought 2 that up, because I think that's a point that really ought to 3 be considered and encouraged. I think it's -- it's probably 4 high time to do the same thing in at least my part of -- of 5 eastern Kerr County, and perhaps Jon and I can get together, 6 figure out a way to have an east Kerr -- east Kerr County 7 fire district that takes everything from Precinct 2 all the 8 way to the county line. Makes sense, and I think the sooner 9 we really move on that, the better we're going to be served 10 -- our people are going to be served. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, from a funding 12 standpoint, it really gives them -- they're able to do a lot 13 more because they have guaranteed funding. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Exactly. I think the 15 time is now to really get into those discussions. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, I agree with that. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: They also have a 18 mechanism for raising private donations. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Exactly. A better 21 mechanism. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, under -- you 23 know, under the -- where we are today, it -- I just -- it 24 would be almost impossible to go out into Kerrville South 25 right now and -- and get a piece of land, build a building, 1-28-04 15 1 put trucks and equipment in there, and getting people to run 2 it. That would just be really difficult to do. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But under a fire 5 district situation, or whatever we call them these days, it 6 -- there's a time frame to it, but at least -- I can see -- 7 I can see it's out there a little ways, but you can see 8 something like that actually developing, working. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You can get real 10 good help and guidance out of Austin in setting it up. On 11 the Mountain Home district, a fellow from Austin actually 12 came out, sat down with us and had his books and took us by 13 the hand and said -- it was very, very helpful, unlike most 14 things you get out of Austin. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: From the Office of Community 16 Rural Affairs, if I'm not mistaken. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's a function of 18 O.R.C.A. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Charlie Stone was his name, I 20 believe. Excellent, excellent job. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Great. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's an O.R.C.A. 23 function. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move we enact the 25 90-day county-wide burn ban. 1-28-04 16 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And this is the burn ban 3 that allows the NRCS plan and all that? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Got the order here for 5 the Judge to sign. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We can lift it by 7 precinct? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And also, even with the 10 burn ban, they can do it if it's approved by NRCS. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Any 12 further discussion on the motion? All in favor of the 13 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, on this, I don't 19 know if we -- I don't know if that agenda posting is broad 20 enough or not to pass an order requesting the County 21 Attorney to give us enforcement information on the burn ban. 22 I'd like to know what we can do. I mean, 'cause, you know, 23 if it is a -- or if we have to do something in addition to 24 be able to hand out a fine if they're not called in, what we 25 can actually -- what our authorities are. If we can even -- 1-28-04 17 1 without a burn ban in place, can we require people to call 2 it in? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: I think enforcement's an 4 integral part of the burn ban itself, so I think the agenda 5 item is broad enough to include it. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make -- 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think a memorandum 8 from the Judge to the County Attorney can do that. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd rather get a court 10 order. That way I know it will get done. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Maybe. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion that 13 we authorize the County Judge to send a memorandum to the 14 County Attorney requesting the enforcement authority that 15 Commissioners Court has regarding outdoor burning. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you want to get 17 specific? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How about a written 19 report to the Court? Would that suffice? A written 20 response to the Court. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Written report to the 22 Court concerning outdoor burning. And the reason I say 23 authority is I just don't know what it is. I don't know if 24 we can even do a fire code; just editorial, talking about 25 the fire code. I don't know if we have that authority. 1-28-04 18 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Including -- including 2 can we require people to notify -- personally, I'd rather 3 see them notify the fire department. I don't want the 4 Sheriff's Office sitting there taking 20 calls a day on 5 something like that. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: There won't be 7 anybody to answer the phone, though, at the -- at the 8 volunteer fire department. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, that's a good 10 point. That is a good point. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd like to amend 12 that motion just to include whether or not we have the 13 authority to establish a fire code -- county-wide fire code. 14 Just have him research that along with everything else. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I have to tell you, 16 I really -- really am frustrated about not knowing what our 17 enforcement authorities are on various things, environmental 18 things, 'cause it's really foolish not to be able to tell 19 people how we can handle -- handle problems. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. But that's not on 21 the agenda. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No, that's not on 23 the agenda. That was an aside. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You accept the 25 amendment and I'll second the motion. 1-28-04 19 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll accept your 2 amendment. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I second it. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Did you get that rambling 5 motion, Judge? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He's still writing. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It appears to me -- I 8 just glanced at this thing here, but what I'm reading, I 9 understand the question of fire code. What their 10 recommendation is here is for us to hire someone to do 11 exactly what we're doing. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's bottom line. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: To me, why spend money 14 to -- just to shift it over to somebody else? And -- 15 because it -- it would be the same thing; you can burn or, 16 you know, you can't burn. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm willing to 18 concede mine to you. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No thanks. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You know, and it's -- you 21 know, I think it's really important that we learn -- or, you 22 know, get a clear, concise idea what our authority is, 23 because this problem has increased probably 50-fold since 24 I've been a Commissioner. I mean, it didn't used to be this 25 big a problem, and it is becoming a huge problem. 1-28-04 20 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's easing up on the 2 septic tank issue. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's worse than septic. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Would you say we've 5 gone from the frying pan to the fire? Would that be 6 reasonable? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion, as amended, 8 and a second. Any further question or discussion? All in 9 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I got two quick 15 information items for the Court, since everybody's here, 16 Judge. Well, you were -- you stayed on last night at City 17 Council till the end? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, I stayed until they went 19 into executive. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Well, I got a 21 report back from the Airport Manager this morning early, in 22 which he said everything was -- the Council did what we did, 23 and there will be efforts to set up the meetings which we 24 are attending very soon to set the counter-proposal. So, 25 that's on track; hopefully we'll get it resolved. Secondly, 1-28-04 21 1 after Commissioner Baldwin made his comment about our 2 ability to take the workshop out of the courthouse, I 3 contacted TAC -- TAC's attorneys, and got a response back 4 from Mr. Bob Bass that it is, in fact, something that we can 5 do. We can remove this body to -- within the county to 6 conduct this workshop. The only caveat of caution that he 7 urged was that if, subsequently, we are dealing with any 8 issues before the court that might have arisen from that 9 workshop discussion, that we make reference to that so that 10 there is public knowledge that that's where the idea or the 11 thought or the initiative or whatever came from. I was 12 going to write you a memorandum, but this is an opportunity 13 to save the paper and the time. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let me see. There 15 were only the two of you there at the -- 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pardon? 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Only the two of you 18 were there at the City Council meeting? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, but we were 20 watching. We had a guard posted at the door just in case a 21 third member of the court came busting into City Council 22 last night. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Me and Buster were 24 out in the hall peeking around the corner. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 1-28-04 22 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have one other brief 2 comment, and this is just a -- I didn't do it the last 3 agenda. We are getting lax, in my opinion, about not having 4 backup. That makes it very difficult for me to make 5 decisions. So, even something like this, even -- I mean, 6 something to look at. To me, we really need to get back to 7 our own rules and have backup material on all agenda items, 8 even if it's just a one-page summary as to why it's there. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree. One other 10 quick caveat on the workshop. The posting -- obviously, 11 it's a posted meeting with time, place, and so forth and so 12 on, and they urge that the notice indicates that no action 13 will be taken. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further items? We'll 15 stand adjourned. 16 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 9:25 a.m.) 17 - - - - - - - - - - 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1-28-04 23 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 5 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 6 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 7 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 28th day of January, 8 2004. 9 10 11 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 12 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 13 Certified Shorthand Reporter 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1-28-04