1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Regular Session 10 Monday, March 8, 2004 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 DAVE NICHOLSON, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X March 8, 2004 2 PAGE --- Visitors' Comments 3 3 --- Commissioners' Comments 12 4 1.1 Alternate plat for Wolf Creek Ranch, Pct. 1 20 1.2 Preliminary Plat of Hermosa Subdivision, Pct. 4 21 5 1.3 Preliminary Plat of Big Sky Ranch, Pct. 4 23 1.4 Authorize Texas Arts and Craft Foundation to use 6 electricity, pay for the electric costs associated with outside rodeo arena meter at HCYEC 25 7 1.5 Request County Attorney to provide Commissioners Court with opinion as to permitted organization of 8 Kerr County Unit Road System 35 1.6 PUBLIC HEARING to authorize freezing of ad valorem 9 property tax values for elderly/disabled 38 1.7 Discuss professional service proposals received 10 for TCDP projects, consider resolution designating professional service providers for TCDP Projects 73 11 1.8 Discuss Burn Ban Status 83 1.9 Discuss whether County Attorney or Commissioners 12 Court has authority over the pending health insurance claim as a civil matter 87 13 1.10 Discuss whether County Attorney represents the Commissioners and County Judge in civil & criminal 14 matters related to health insurance claim 98 1.11 Revisions to job description for Coordinator of 15 Administrative Services for the County Judge and Commissioners' Court 103 16 1.12 Advertisement/solicitation for applicants for the position of Commissioners Court Coordinator/ 17 Administrative Assistant 119 1.l3 Resolution requesting TexDOT to declare portions 18 of old SH-39 as surplus, remove them from the state highway system 122 19 1.14 Proclamation for National Day of Prayer 125 20 4.1 Pay Bills 126 4.2 Budget Amendments 126 21 4.3 Late Bills --- 4.4 Read and Approve Minutes 127 22 4.5 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 128 23 5.1 Reports from Commissioners/Liaison Assignments 129 24 --- Adjourned 134 25 3 1 On Monday, March 8, 2004, at 9:00 a.m., a regular meeting 2 of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in the 3 Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville, 4 Texas, and the following proceedings were had in open court: 5 P R O C E E D I N G S 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, ladies and 7 gentlemen. Let me call to order the regular Commissioners 8 Court meeting scheduled for this date at 9 a.m. It's a 9 minute or so past that now. Commissioner Baldwin? You may 10 open. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. Thank you. 12 Stand and have a word of prayer with me, please, and then 13 we'll do the pledge of allegiance. 14 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Got locked down there, did 16 you? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, it happens to 18 the best of us. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, sir. At this point in 20 the meeting, any citizen who desires to express themselves 21 on a matter which is not listed on the agenda is privileged 22 to come forward and to tell us what's on their mind. 23 Anybody that -- that is here today that wants to talk to 24 us -- talk at us, actually. We can't respond because it's 25 not an agenda item, but anybody who has anything to say to 3-8-04 4 1 us about an item that is not on the agenda, feel free to 2 come forward at this time, give your name and address to the 3 reporter, and tell us what's on your mind. 4 MS. MANN: I don't know if mine's on the 5 agenda. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Come on forward and identify 7 yourself, if would you, please, ma'am. 8 MS. MANN: My name is Debbie Mann, and I 9 don't know if mine's on the agenda or not. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: What is your area of interest, 11 ma'am? 12 MS. MANN: The road -- the new road name, 13 Floyd Road. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's not on the agenda. 15 Now's the appropriate time. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Ms. Mann, I did get 17 your message, and if that issue comes up, I'll be in touch 18 with you. 19 MS. MANN: Okay. Are you Mr. Nicholson? My 20 husband, Michael, talked to you last night. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything you want to say? 23 MS. MANN: Yes. Okay, I have everything I 24 want to say written down so -- I'm not a strong speaker, and 25 I just want to -- I feel passionate about this issue, so I 3-8-04 5 1 want you to bear with me. We are here -- 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The P.A. system's not 3 on. 4 (Discussion off the record.) 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Now it's on. 6 MS. MANN: Okay. We are here because we 7 disagree with our new road being named Floyd Road. The 8 three landowners involved are Donnie Vanhoozer, Doris 9 Herring, and my husband Michael and I. My name is Debbie 10 Mann. I'm the daughter of Johnny Vanhoozer. I've lived on 11 Vanhoozer Ranch since I was 10, and in the past 23 years, 12 there have only been a few years that I have not lived on 13 Vanhoozer Ranch. Michael and I are now building a house on 14 our property, which the soon-to-be-named road runs to. I 15 called my aunt, Doris Herring -- excuse me -- to talk to her 16 about naming the road, since we were building, so we could 17 get an address for our mailbox and 9-1-1 purposes. She 18 agreed the road should be named, because she wouldn't want 19 her address to be Shalako Drive either. Michael and I came 20 up with a very long list of names, and each one I asked her 21 about, she replied, "I don't care for that one." The two 22 she was pretty set on were -- were Stone Mountain and Rocky 23 Hill, which were two that she had come up with. These names 24 had nothing to do with our original conversation of naming 25 it after my grandpa and my dad. 3-8-04 6 1 I have thought for months, since October of 2 2003, about names, and we wrote all kinds of names down. 3 Michael took our list to the 9-1-1 office, where Ellen 4 helped us and told us which ones we could and could not use. 5 The first one we tried was Vanhoozer Hollow, which we later 6 found out we couldn't use. So, after thinking a long time 7 and knowing that I wanted my Grandpa Vanhoozer and my dad, 8 Johnny Vanhoozer, to be a part of the name because the 9 property came from both of them to all of us, my grandpa and 10 my dad have always been called "Grandpa," and it's my 11 understanding that John Herring's grandchildren call him 12 "Grandpa" as well. Two of the landowners agreed that they 13 liked the name "Grandpa's Hollow." We decided Grandpa's 14 Hollow was the best name it could be. Again, Michael took 15 the name to the 9-1-1 office and submitted it, because Ellen 16 at the 9-1-1 office told him that as long as two of the 17 landowners agreed, we could use that name. This was a 18 simple majority-rules issue. Michael and my dad and I agree 19 that we like the name, but Doris said it sounded too 20 country. 21 There are two more points I would like to 22 make. The property was -- we are talking about with the 23 road running through it was originally given to my father, 24 Johnny, from my mother -- from his mother and father during 25 a very difficult time in his life. I believe he was taken 3-8-04 7 1 advantage of and taken -- and talked into trading this 2 property to Doris for property in another part of the ranch. 3 I feel John and Doris knew they were getting the best deal, 4 because this property line is on a road -- a county road 5 which makes it much easier to be subdivided. The land 6 Johnny traded for is in the middle of the ranch and has 7 limited access. And, finally, I would like to point out 8 that Doris has named three other roads on the ranch, and 9 none of them have anything to do with my grandparents. But 10 now that we would like to have a say in the name of the 11 road, that we are the only ones going to be living on it and 12 we are the only ones having to write the name -- write the 13 address every day, Doris believes that she should be the 14 only one to name it. We don't believe this is right. We 15 are in agreement with one other landowner, and we would like 16 the road to be named "Grandpa's Hollow." Thank you for 17 hearing me. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Ms. Mann. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there anyone else that 21 wishes to be heard? Yes, sir? If you'll come forward, give 22 your name and address. 23 MR. POPE: Yes. My name is Scott Pope; I 24 live at 415 Jackson. I thank you guys for giving me the 25 opportunity to speak today. The topic I'd like to talk 3-8-04 8 1 about is citizen participation in government, and from my 2 perspective, it's very difficult for the citizens of Kerr 3 County to make informed decisions at the voting booth 4 because of a lack of information. If one reads the San 5 Antonio newspaper and one reads the Daily Times, quite often 6 the stories are not the same. In order to be -- to 7 participate in government, we need to be informed about the 8 issues. And I know that Kerr County has a web site, 9 kerrcounty.org. It's a good web site, but it's not updated. 10 We have a -- a link for minutes of the Commissioners Court, 11 which is never -- never updated. The file doesn't exist. 12 There are no links giving any background on Commissioners. 13 There's no information about agendas. There's no 14 information regarding the times of the meetings. And what 15 I've found is that sitting down with a Commissioner is very 16 informative, but the message is not getting out to the 17 citizens, and so it's very, very difficult to participate in 18 government, because we just don't have the information. 19 It's difficult to take off work and go to the -- go to the 20 meetings, especially in a time when controversy is swirling. 21 We don't know what to do when we go to the voting booth. 22 The information's just not there. And I know we have an 23 office of Information Technology in Kerr County. We've got 24 such a great web site, and uploading information is such a 25 simple and easy endeavor that I would -- I would like to 3-8-04 9 1 request that we pay a little more attention to the web site 2 in order to get the citizens of Kerr County involved in 3 government. That's all I have to say. I want to thank you 4 guys for doing a great job. Appreciate it. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Pope. We 6 appreciate your being here with us this morning. Would 7 anyone else like to speak? Yes, sir? Come forward, please. 8 Give your name and address to the reporter. 9 MR. ELLER: Morning, Judge, Commissioners. 10 My name's Charlie Eller. I live in Greenwood Forest, Kerr 11 County. I don't believe that I'm in conflict with Item 1.9 12 and 1.10; I'm not going to talk on that side of the issue at 13 all. Over the past year, there's been a great deal of 14 controversy over the action of a previous Commissioners 15 Court, and a lot of debate on the reason for those actions 16 and whether they were proper. Some of the members of the 17 current Court believe those actions were wrong, while others 18 believe they are so correct they would do it again today. 19 My concern is not whether those actions were proper or good 20 or well-meant. My concern increasingly is whether or not 21 they're legal or illegal. I offer an opinion of the 22 Attorney General of the State of Texas regarding an almost 23 identical action by another Commissioners Court, two 24 articles from the Constitution of the State of Texas, and I 25 would like to add my opinion as a resident/taxpayer of Kerr 3-8-04 10 1 County. 2 Opinion H-51, the Attorney General of the 3 State of Texas says, in part: "The Commissioners Court is a 4 court of limited jurisdiction and has only such powers as 5 are conferred on it by the Constitution and the statutes of 6 the state." Section 52 of Article 3 of the Texas 7 Constitution provides in part: "Except as otherwise 8 provided by this section, the Legislature shall have no 9 power to authorize any county... to lend its credit or to 10 grant public money or thing of value in aid of, or to any 11 individual, association, or corporation whatsoever, or to 12 become a stockholder in such corporation, association, or 13 company." Section 53 of Article 3 of the Texas Constitution 14 provides in part: "The Legislature shall have no power to 15 grant or to authorize any county to grant any extra 16 compensation, fee, or allowance to a public officer, agent, 17 servant, or contractor." 18 I believe -- this is my opinion. These -- 19 this is the law; this is my opinion. I believe Opinion H-51 20 clearly indicates it's unlawful for the Kerr County 21 Commissioners Court to make -- to pay medical benefits over 22 and above the amount of self-insurance and stop loss medical 23 insurance coverage in the contract provided by the County. 24 I believe Opinion H-51 clearly states it's unlawful for the 25 Commissioners Court to grant a thing of value to any 3-8-04 11 1 individual, association, or corporation whatsoever. I 2 further believe the use of a public building is a thing of 3 value, as is the payment of utility bills, provision of 4 janitorial and other services. I believe that a reduced or 5 waived rent or fee to any individual, association, or 6 corporation is a thing of value, and is therefore an 7 unlawful act. I believe that Opinion H-51 applies to any 8 and all individuals and associations, including tax-exempt, 9 nonprofit, and charitable associations, organizations, 10 congregations, groups and so forth, and that any grants, 11 gifts, donation, free use, or other things of value are 12 unlawful. I believe the Commissioners Court has 13 acknowledged that these things are things of value when it 14 charges some groups or individuals and not others, and when 15 they offer reduced charges to some and not to others. I 16 further believe that any charge less than the cost of 17 providing that facility is a thing of value, and is 18 prohibited under the opinion of the Constitution of the 19 State of Texas. Thank you. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. We appreciate 21 you being with us today. Is there anyone else who wishes to 22 come before the Court to talk to us or speak on any matter 23 that is not a listed agenda item for today's business? 24 Anyone else? Yes, sir? 25 AUDIENCE: I just need to get this to Thea. 3-8-04 12 1 (Discussion off the record.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there anyone else who 3 wishes to be heard? Seeing no indication of that, we'll 4 move on to the next portion of the agenda. Commissioner 1? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. I just want 6 to report that I have a red nose, and it doesn't mean that I 7 started drinking again, but it's track season. I went to 8 two track meets on Saturday, one university in San Antonio 9 and one Antler relays in Kerrville. And what I really 10 wanted to say, I don't know if it's the brand-new eight-lane 11 track that the Antler Stadium has, or if it's the new track 12 coaches or what it is, but that is one of the best track 13 meets I have seen in Kerrville in 15 years, maybe. There 14 was some very large 5A schools that were -- Seguin is known 15 for track all over the state, Smithson Valley, McNeil around 16 Austin is just, you know, state powers year after year -- 17 were all here, and it was a fantastic track meet. So, saw a 18 couple of meet records broken, and it's just -- it was 19 really neat, and it's a good thing. It's a good thing for 20 our local youth to be doing on a -- on a good weekend. 21 That's all. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Last week, there was a 23 delegation locally that went to Washington, D.C. for the -- 24 in connection with the Veterans Administration facility and 25 the proposed action that -- that the federal government is 3-8-04 13 1 suggesting they might take with regard to that facility. I 2 was unable to go because of a previous commitment and a 3 probate judge's conference; however, I did prevail on 4 Commissioner Williams to go as a representative of county 5 government, and he's been kind enough to give us a report 6 this morning. Commissioner Williams? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Judge. 8 The day began about 5:15 at General Schellhase's front 9 porch, where we kind of gathered -- and, Walter, I see 10 you're here, and anything I omit, I'd be pleased if you 11 would fill in the gaps. Or, in the alternative, you can 12 start and I'll fill in the gaps; I don't care. 13 MR. SCHELLHASE: Go ahead. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Nonetheless, General 15 Schellhase had put together a group of Kerr County folks and 16 Hill Country folks for the purpose of going to Washington, 17 D.C. and lobbying with our Congressman, soon to be elected 18 and take over this district, Bonilla, and Senator Cornyn and 19 Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison, and the V.A. in particular. 20 The purpose was to try to make certain that our elected 21 representatives and the V.A. people in particular understood 22 the reason and the need not to take the 20 acute care beds 23 and the five ICU beds out of this facility, closing them 24 down and moving that -- that level of service to Audie 25 Murphy in San Antonio. 3-8-04 14 1 So, we gathered together, and in our group 2 was General Schellhase, who's the president of the Hill 3 Country Veterans Council; State Representative Harvey 4 Hilderbran; Mr. Joe Strange of the Veterans of Foreign Wars; 5 Mr. Bob Weinberg, who is a former prisoner of war in World 6 War II; Mr. Alan Hill, president of the V.B.A.; yours truly 7 representing Kerr County Commissioners Court; Mayor Stephen 8 Fine, the City of Kerrville; Ron Patterson, the City 9 Manager, City of Kerrville; Brian Bondy, president of the 10 Kerrville Area Chamber of Commerce; and Bob Waller, who is 11 the president of the Kerr Economic Development Foundation. 12 A pretty representative group of folk from all walks of life 13 and interests, all of whom want to make certain that our 14 elected officials understood that taking the beds from this 15 V.A. facility and incorporating them into Audie Murphy was 16 the wrong thing to do. 17 So, we met first with Representative Bonilla 18 and his staff, and had an opportunity to sit and chat with 19 him for about 15 or 20 minutes, and he assured us that he 20 is, in fact, on board on this issue and is very supportive 21 of our position not to remove these beds, and listened very 22 carefully when we said that was only half of our purpose. 23 The other half was to convince all involved of the need to 24 add 20 more beds, and the reasons are very simple. First of 25 all, we have veterans who expect the level of care to be 3-8-04 15 1 here, and to -- to disenfranchise them by moving these beds 2 to Audie Murphy is the wrong thing to do. Secondly, in 3 order to do that, they -- the government has to spend 4 anywhere between 10 to 12 million dollars upgrading Audie 5 Murphy and building the facilities necessary to accommodate 6 these 20 beds. Thirdly, we already have veterans laying on 7 gurneys in the hallways at Audie Murphy. We already have 8 Audie Murphy patients in beds here in Kerrville, and it just 9 absolutely makes no sense to -- to do what it is that's 10 being proposed by the C.A.R.E.S. Commission. So, we 11 convinced Representative Bonilla that that was our position, 12 and he advised us that he was not opposed to our position 13 and was, in fact, fighting for it. 14 The day before we got there, there was a 15 members meeting. By that, I mean members of Congress who 16 met with the Veterans Administration officials, particularly 17 Secretary Princippi, and their point of view was put 18 forward, and we are given to believe that Mr. Princippi said 19 to all of the members who were in attendance, and 20 particularly our two senators were in attendance and -- and 21 Representative Bonilla was in attendance. He had indicated 22 to them that he was not of a mind at this point to remove 23 these beds, as per the recommendation of the C.A.R.E.S. 24 Committee -- Commission. He didn't say what his mind might 25 be six months from now or a year from now, and that really 3-8-04 16 1 sort of emphasized our need to be there to convince him that 2 it was -- if it's wrong today, it's wrong tomorrow. And if 3 the need is here to continue these beds and/or add beds 4 today, the need is even more -- is greater six months or a 5 year from now. 6 Anyhow, we took comfort in knowing that his 7 position had -- was publicly stated to members of our 8 congressional delegation, that he was not predisposed to 9 accept that commission's recommendation. But, nonetheless, 10 we kept up our lobbying events, and from Congressman 11 Bonilla's office, we went to Senator Cornyn's office. We 12 missed Senator Cornyn because he was tied up for the most 13 part of the day in budget hearings for the federal budget, 14 and that takes in a lot of senators and a lot of other folks 15 for a lot of hours each day. We missed him, but we did talk 16 with his staff, and they too indicated that he's on board 17 with this issue and is fighting for it just as hard as he 18 possibly can. We met with an undersecretary of the Veterans 19 Administration, Dr. -- Walter? -- Dr. Murphy? 20 MR. SCHELLHASE: Murphy. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Dr. Murphy, who is 22 the one who speaks highly -- or often to members of Congress 23 on the medical issues of the Veterans Administration. And 24 we outlined our position on that, same as we had to the 25 other congressional folk. And, while she made no commitment 3-8-04 17 1 on behalf of Secretary Princippi, she listened very 2 carefully, asked questions, and certainly did respond on 3 those issues -- medical issues that we brought to her 4 attention. From there, we went to see Kay Bailey 5 Hutchison -- Senator Hutchison, and there was absolutely no 6 question where she stands on this issue. She's fighting 7 hard for the veterans in our area, to -- to make the V.A. 8 understand our position in this matter, as well as she's 9 fighting hard for the folks in the central Texas area with 10 respect to the Waco V.A. situation. All in all, it was a 11 long day, and while we weren't out in the sunshine getting 12 any sun on the end of our nose, we were going back and forth 13 underneath the capitol on that tram going from one senator's 14 office to another senator's office to the congressman's 15 office to the V.A.'s office, and by the end of the day, when 16 we returned to Baltimore-Washington International Airport to 17 return to Kerrville, we all, to a person, knew we had been 18 in Washington and we'd been lobbying all day long. 19 On balance, I believe that our effort was 20 good. I believe that it is this type of effort that gets 21 the attention of your elected officials in Washington. It 22 would have been one thing for General Schellhase to cancel 23 our trip because he had learned the day before of Secretary 24 Princippi's comments, and so, you know, he could have acted 25 on the strength of that and said, "No, I think I'll just 3-8-04 18 1 cancel the trip," and that would have been the wrong thing 2 to do. It was valuable for us to be there en masse and to 3 see each and every one of these individuals, and we did 4 that. And if we have to go back, we'll go back. General, 5 do you have something you'd like to add to the report? 6 MR. SCHELLHASE: I'd like to add, on 7 Undersecretary Frances Murphy, she has testified before 8 Congress on several occasions, and her pitch is always 9 accessibility, availability, and affordability for medical 10 health care for veterans. So, her three A's we were able to 11 put back to her. Friday morning she called me and read me 12 the minutes of her message that she understood from us to 13 confirm -- she's telling the secretary what we asked for. 14 She had them right down to the penny what we wanted, and 15 she's delivering that to Secretary Princippi today. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good. That's our 17 day, Judge. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you very much. 19 Commissioner, I appreciate your efforts, and I'm glad you 20 were able to represent Kerr County. Thank you. I 21 appreciate it. Anything else? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, sir. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner 3? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd just like to thank 25 everyone that went to -- made that trip to Washington. That 3-8-04 19 1 was a very long day, and I know exhausting, and I think 2 y'all did a lot of good. Appreciate it from all the 3 citizens of Kerr County. But onto a little bit lighter 4 note, Commissioner 1 talked about track, which means I've 5 got to talk about baseball. And I want to take the 6 opportunity today to recognize three former Tivy graduates 7 that all played baseball this weekend at various Division I 8 universities. In fact, they all played together at Tivy. 9 Kevin Whelan started in California at UCLA. One of his 10 uncles is in the room. I see Lee Voelkel -- excuse me, I 11 was thinking of Kyle's -- Kevin is Charlie Whelan's son. 12 But Kevin hit a home run, drove in three runs total during 13 the day, had a great day catching for Texas A & M playing 14 U.C.L.A. A & M won, I think, 8 to 3. 15 Then we go on to -- Lee's nephew is a 16 University of Texas Longhorn, which I'm very happy to 17 announce to everyone. Voelkels' longstanding tradition is 18 Texas A & M. I don't think Kyle -- Kyle pitched Friday's 19 game, I believe. I didn't go, but Kyle's had an outstanding 20 year relief-pitching for Texas. And the third is -- I have 21 to toot my own nephew's horn. He has fought his way into 22 the starting lineup, starting right fielder; has done an 23 outstanding job. Currently he's batting about .320, does 24 not have a strikeout this year, does not have an error this 25 year. So, that's three young men -- 3-8-04 20 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where is he? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He's at University of 3 Texas as well. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I might add that his 6 brother and father both played at A & M, though I went to 7 University of Texas, so I'm quite glad he's at Austin as 8 well. But it is -- it's a tribute to the Texas -- I mean, 9 to the program here, from Little League on up through the 10 high school program. That's really the -- where they 11 learned a lot. And they are all three fine young men that 12 have done very well in representing this community. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I pass. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: You got anything? 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I pass. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: My only comment today is that, 17 as I'm sure most of you are aware from what you read in the 18 print media and see in the radio media and the television 19 media, tomorrow is election day. If you haven't voted, be 20 sure and vote. Be sure and vote. You get to make the call, 21 and your participation is important. That being said, let's 22 move right on with the agenda. First item on the agenda, 23 consideration of alternate plat for Wolf Creek Ranch in 24 Precinct 1. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I still say 3-8-04 21 1 that this is in Precinct 2. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Three. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I mean 3. Excuse me, 4 Bill. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's in Precinct 6 3 as well. 7 MR. JOHNSTON: Precinct 3, yes. According to 8 the map, this -- this is a one-lot subdivision, which is 9 carved out of a larger -- some multiple-hundred-acre tract. 10 It has highway frontage. It's over 5 acres and has a well. 11 I think that's an existing well; you see it on there with 12 the sanitary setback. There's the floodplain shown, and I'd 13 just recommend approval. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It looks straightforward. 15 Everything seems to be in order, and I'll move approval. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 18 approval of the alternate plat for Wolf Creek Ranch in 19 Precinct 3. Any further questions or discussion? All in 20 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Next 25 item is consideration of preliminary plat of -- plat of 3-8-04 22 1 Hermosa Subdivision in Precinct 4. 2 MR. JOHNSTON: This is a multiple lot 3 subdivision. I think it has 11 lots. They're all 15 acres 4 or more. So the drainage study is not required on that size 5 of lot. It will entail building a road up into the 6 subdivision, which would be what we call our country lane 7 road, paved country lane. We had a meeting last week with 8 the developer and his engineer and the surveyor, and he has 9 an engineer on board that's going to basically lay out this 10 road for the contractor and then sign a letter of 11 certification at the end. I think that's the Court's 12 requirement, and he's on board for that. Recommend approval 13 of the preliminary plat. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think this is also 15 a pretty straightforward subdivision, and I'd move that we 16 approve it. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 19 approval of the preliminary plat of Hermosa Subdivision in 20 Precinct 4. Any further question or discussion? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Only question I have -- 22 and it's hard to tell exactly -- the grade on going up that 23 initial hill off of Lange Ravine. That's the only thing -- 24 I just note that you just checked that when they -- the 25 engineer states that it meets our requirements. 3-8-04 23 1 MR. JOHNSTON: The overall on that from the 2 bottom to the top, if you just do a linear line, it's less 3 than 12 percent. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 5 MR. JOHNSTON: There's sections, though, that 6 might be more than 12 percent. They wanted -- they asked 7 for a variance, you know. I told them wait, to let the 8 engineer look at it and see if there's a possibility of 9 getting it within specs. Otherwise, they may be requiring a 10 variance for that one small section, but it would be no more 11 than 15 percent. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or 14 discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion, 15 signify by raising your right hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Next 20 item on the agenda, Number 3, consideration of preliminary 21 plat, Big Sky Ranch in Precinct 4. 22 MR. JOHNSTON: Big Sky Ranch is a 5-acre lot 23 or more subdivision. It's going to have construction of 24 roads into the subdivision, with the number of lots. 25 They're -- they will be local roads according to Kerr County 3-8-04 24 1 Subdivision Rules. It's the size lot that requires a 2 hydrology study. They've already done a preliminary study. 3 You see the detention pond locations on several lots, on 4 Lots 17, 18, and 36, 38, and they will do a more detailed 5 study on these -- these four lots when the final detention 6 pond boundaries are known, just to make certain of all the 7 setbacks and well and septic locations, but it doesn't 8 appear to be a problem. We talked about last time, 9 they're -- the current rules require two test wells, and we 10 went over that with the owners, and they decided that they 11 would rather go ahead and put in the two test wells rather 12 than one dedicated well for sampling. That would be their 13 option to put them on two separate lots, and then sell them 14 with the lots later on after they get their testing done. 15 And you may want to ask them questions; they're here. I 16 believe that's everything. Recommend approval of the 17 preliminary plat. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The developers, 19 Ms. Krause and Mr. Lehmann, took us on a tour -- me and 20 Mr. Johnston on a tour of the property last week, and one 21 other piece of information I can give to you is that it's 22 located about as far from the courthouse as you can get and 23 still be in Kerr County. (Laughter.) It also is a very 24 straightforward subdivision, and we don't see any 25 extraordinary issue with it, so I move to approve. 3-8-04 25 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 3 approval of the preliminary plat of Big Sky Ranch in 4 Precinct 4. Any further questions or discussion on the 5 motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your 6 right hand. 7 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. The 9 motion does carry. The next item up on the agenda is 10 consideration and discussion of authorizing the Texas Arts 11 and Crafts Foundation to use electricity and pay for the 12 electric costs associated with the outside rodeo arena meter 13 at the Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center. Mr. Letz? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. I put this on the 15 agenda, or did -- well, put it on the agenda and referred to 16 it at our last meeting, that I was going to do this. The 17 situation is that the Arts and Crafts Foundation is waiting 18 on KPUB to get power there. They have come to the County 19 and said that, if they were willing to pick up 100 percent 20 of the cost of that meter in the interim, would we allow 21 them to use power? And that's why it's on the agenda to 22 authorize them to do that. And it will cost the County 23 nothing. In fact, we may even make a little bit on the side 24 if we have any outdoor events going on during that period. 25 And Mr. Miller's here. Do you have anything else? Any 3-8-04 26 1 other comments? 2 MR. MILLER: Morning, County Judge and 3 Commissioners. This is really just a request for temporary 4 power in order to provide power to -- for the portable 5 building people to build the restroom building and the 6 office building which are located in the bottom right-hand 7 corner of the larger piece of paper that you have there, and 8 also provide you with floor plans of those two buildings. I 9 know we have discussed the bathroom building before, but we 10 didn't have the details, and then the office building is 11 also a portable building built by the same people who build 12 the classroom buildings here in town, Metco Corporation. I 13 tried to circulate an e-mail late last week about utilities 14 in general. Did all Commissioners get a copy of that? It's 15 a long, drawn-out, two-page e-mail. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 17 MR. MILLER: Okay. The temporary power is 18 one question. I've asked -- been asked to have the County 19 send a letter requesting -- I would like to have a waiver of 20 the cost of the fees for establishing utilities on that site 21 for both electricity, water, and sewer. Each one of these 22 we have a potential problem with. We don't have three-phase 23 power available on-site. We need it for our underground 24 utilities for our exhibitors. It's going cost a little over 25 $6,000 to bring those three -- the three-phase power to the 3-8-04 27 1 site and move one telephone pole at the entrance to provide 2 some access -- a little bit cleaner access into the site. 3 The City -- KPUB has asked that they have something on their 4 record for their meeting on the 15th of this month. Sue 5 Burditt with the Convention/Visitors Bureau already sent a 6 letter to them explaining what they thought the potential of 7 the site was. I believe the issue -- I don't mean to put 8 words in their mouth, but I believe KPUB's issue is, if 9 we're going to make the investment to bring the utilities 10 over there, are there going to be enough events and 11 activities on that site to justify that? So, this is just 12 really an opportunity for us to explain to them the use of 13 that park as not just a park for the Arts and Crafts Fair, 14 but as an outdoor event park for the County and the City. I 15 would request that either the Judge or Commissioners or 16 somebody from your side write that letter to -- to KPUB to 17 help move that forward. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with 19 Mr. Miller. I -- I showed it myself to a county judge from 20 the Panhandle last week as a possible site for a function 21 year after next, so I see it as a -- almost a year-round 22 facility being used all the time. 23 MR. MILLER: That is the plan at this point. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, and I like it. 25 Let's work on this motion here to approve this thing. 3-8-04 28 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, this -- I'll make a 2 motion that we authorize Texas Arts and Crafts Foundation to 3 have electricity and pay the costs associated with the 4 outside rodeo arena meter as long as needed by the Arts and 5 Crafts Foundation. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second -- third. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 9 approval of the agenda item, so long as that electricity 10 through that meter is needed by the Arts and Crafts 11 Foundation. Any further questions or discussion on the 12 motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your 13 right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. The 16 motion does carry. As I'm sure you might have gathered by 17 now, Mr. Miller, we have an agenda problem. 18 MR. MILLER: Yep. I almost decided to get up 19 and speak beforehand; I didn't know if that would be a 20 problem or not. Can we discuss it with no action so that we 21 all know -- 22 JUDGE TINLEY: We certainly can't take any 23 action, I can assure you of that. 24 MR. MILLER: Sure. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: But we'd certainly be willing 3-8-04 29 1 to listen to things associated with your electrical 2 concerns. I think it's sufficiently broad enough for us to 3 at least listen to you. 4 MR. MILLER: So we cannot discuss anything on 5 the other utilities at this point? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: No, I think the agenda item is 7 broad enough at least for us to listen to you about your 8 other concerns. 9 MR. MILLER: Let's go to the water issue. 10 Just -- each one of these items ends up being a different 11 animal of sorts. There's a water line that goes across that 12 property that parallels the rodeo arena side and in our 13 yard, and feeds a fire hydrant out at that Riverside Drive 14 entrance to the piece of property. It has a tap in it at 15 this point that goes to the County Extension Agent's office 16 building. I went over to the City, paid my fee -- that 17 $2,000 fee to get a water tap. We need a water tap for the 18 bathroom building, the office building, and then for an 19 irrigation. Got a call from Dane Tune a couple hours later 20 saying that they don't make taps to folks who are outside 21 the city limits of Kerrville, and we are in the county 22 there. And our initial discussions over the lease that we 23 took from y'all, I think there was a general feeling there 24 was some sort an of agreement somewhere as to available 25 sewer taps and water taps that would be available to us. 3-8-04 30 1 Everybody's looking for those. Nobody's -- they found one, 2 I think. Dane Tune called me back Friday real late, said 3 they found some documentation that there was a sewer tap 4 agreement available. Nobody has been able to find the water 5 tap agreement available, so now we need to go before City 6 Council and request that they allow us to tap into that 7 water line, and Dane says this is not something that they 8 are inclined to do normally. The other option is for us to 9 drill a well, which I'd just as soon not do, or find another 10 water line out there to tap into that's already, you know, 11 available to the Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center. But 12 then I don't know how we'd account for water if we do that. 13 So -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I've talked to Assistant 15 City Manager Dane Tune on this, and pointed him in the 16 direction -- he couldn't find any of the agreements 17 originally. He did find the agreement that I recalled, 18 which was a sewer agreement, though I have not looked at it. 19 And I cannot imagine that water was not mentioned at that -- 20 I think it certainly was implied, because the reason for 21 that agreement was -- it was twofold; is when the Little 22 League, which is also County property, tied onto the sewer 23 line, and also at the same time we wanted to accommodate the 24 restrooms that we knew would be built in Flat Rock Park at 25 some point, and you can't have a restroom without water. 3-8-04 31 1 So, I mean, it falls to me that -- I mean, clearly, the 2 intent was for the City to provide utilities on the County 3 property right there. Dane doesn't disagree with that. He 4 said that he thinks the sewer agreement may not be specific 5 enough or general enough to -- whichever way you look at it, 6 to allow for the Arts and Crafts Foundation to use it, but 7 he did not see a problem. And he's requested that the 8 County submit a letter to the City requesting specifically 9 the sewer tap for the Arts and Crafts and the water tap for 10 Arts and Crafts, and thought that it would be approved. And 11 that's kind of where it was. It's not -- I did not put it 12 on the agenda, 'cause Dane -- I did not talk to Dane till, I 13 guess, last Thursday for the first time, so it was a timing 14 issue. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I too followed 16 up. I knew that you'd talked to Dane Tune, and while I had 17 Ron Patterson's ear and the mayor's ear while in Washington, 18 D.C., I followed up on it also, and Mr. Patterson indicated 19 he would research it very carefully and would respond. So, 20 they do know, and they know that this was, in our mind, a 21 quid pro quo for -- for these -- at least one more 22 opportunity, I believe, right? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One or two. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One or two more taps. 25 So, I guess it's going to require a little follow-up on the 3-8-04 32 1 part of the Court to get that done. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess we need to -- and 3 I don't know that we can -- we cannot authorize it at this 4 point. I don't know what the timing is with you, but I 5 think what we need is a letter from -- from the Court to the 6 City requesting it; then they can get it on their agenda. 7 They're going to have the same time lag as we are from, you 8 know, a timing standpoint. I don't know -- you know, my 9 view is that the Court and the City have pretty much already 10 crossed this bridge, and we have agreements that kind of 11 dance around it, though they may not be quite as specific as 12 they want at this particular time. So, I don't -- I think 13 we can probably do a letter, and then if we need to, bring 14 it back to the Court to be approved at a subsequent meeting. 15 MR. MILLER: I know Item 3 is the sewer. 16 Nothing is easy out there. I guess originally we had 17 planned to make a sewer tap -- tap into the sewer line on 18 Riverside Drive. There is a sewer line on the other side of 19 the rodeo arena that services the Ag Extension Agent's 20 office. Our contractor, J.M. Lowe, has gone out there with 21 Whelan Plumbing to look at that and see whether we could 22 avoid a -- a sewer tap in the middle of the road, tearing 23 the road up, by tying into that line right at the property 24 line almost on Riverside Drive. And, according to Whelan 25 Plumbing, it is -- the load we would add to that would -- 3-8-04 33 1 that line would easily service. And I've talked to Glenn 2 about it; I thought we'd bring it before you guys and let 3 you know what we would like to do. We'd like permission to 4 tap into that line also as part of this process, and save 5 some road tearing up and some expense, too. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You might recall that 7 we -- you met with Commissioner Letz and I out there on that 8 area several months ago, I guess, trying to determine 9 where -- where your tap would be, as opposed to where a 10 future tap for our purposes for a restroom at Flat Rock Lake 11 Park would be. Are we still yards apart in terms of where 12 that comes in? 13 MR. MILLER: No. We are in timing. The tap 14 we're looking at at this point is at the rodeo arena side of 15 the property, which would service the modular bathroom 16 building. The future plans would be that when we build a 17 permanent building there, that modular bathroom building 18 would move to the other end of the property, which would be 19 very close to where you all are doing your tap for the -- 20 for the bathroom that's in the park. On your map, that 21 would be -- see where the restrooms -- excuse me. See where 22 artist parking is and the bus stop on the left-hand side? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 25 MR. MILLER: The -- we would move the 3-8-04 34 1 bathroom that's at the rodeo arena over to right behind 2 where the food and the demo squares are, right up alongside 3 the fence line, which would give us bathrooms then at both 4 ends of the park. That's one of the reasons it's being 5 built as a modular building, so we can pick it up and move 6 it. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where are you putting 8 in the infrastructure to accommodate all three sets of 9 restrooms that you show here? 10 MR. MILLER: We're putting in electricity to 11 handle all three sets. We're not putting in sewer and water 12 to handle all three sets at this time. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Once you've got it to 14 the site, you'll do what's necessary at a later date? 15 MR. MILLER: Well, we've -- our problem with 16 the bathrooms site at the -- on the artist parking side 17 right now is we've got to get a right-of-way from our 18 neighbors out there, 'cause that's the Indian -- that's the 19 historical site there; I can't dig down there, so I've got 20 to go outside that boundary in order to do that. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Commissioner Williams, do 22 you want to draft a letter to the City? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And then we can bring it 25 back to the Court. I think this is clearly within the -- I 3-8-04 35 1 mean, we use City water and sewer out there in the Ag Barn. 2 We do it in the Extension Office; we do it with the Little 3 League field, and we have an agreement to do it in the 4 future Flat Rock Park. I really don't know how this is any 5 different. But if they want us to write one more letter 6 and -- you know, I think, clearly, it's appropriate, and 7 bring it back to the Court for approval. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll pull together a 9 draft; I'll run it by you and see if you like what it says. 10 MR. MILLER: Only problem I have is one of 11 timing. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I understand. 13 MR. MILLER: Less than 90 days before we have 14 a fair. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We can't do it 16 yesterday, but we can sure work on it tomorrow. 17 MR. MILLER: Believe me, I know that. I 18 appreciate y'all's help in anything. Thank you, sir. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. The next item 21 on the agenda is consideration and discussion of setting a 22 workshop to consider Road and Bridge organization and 23 request the County Attorney to provide the Commissioners 24 Court with an opinion as to the permitted organization of 25 the Kerr County Unit Road System. 3-8-04 36 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, I put this on the 2 agenda based on our last year's budget workshops, and also 3 with the strategic planning that we held in January. And 4 one of the items was to look at the organization of Road and 5 Bridge, and it seems to me the first stumbling point that we 6 had last budget, and I suspect we'll have again, is to 7 legal -- what legally we can do. And so my reason really 8 was to put this on the agenda to request an opinion from the 9 County Attorney as to what we can do. There are some -- I 10 guess I've heard different things from different -- or 11 different opinions as to how that structure is because of -- 12 if you can't find an engineer, and overall setup and makeup 13 of basically the Road Administrator position and the County 14 Engineer position, and how those -- what our requirements 15 are under the legislation that set up the Kerr County Unit 16 Road System. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: What options legally we have 18 to operate that department. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct. And so I'd like 20 to -- that's the reason for putting it on. And then, once 21 we get that opinion, I think we need to have a workshop and 22 proceed. But this is, to me, clearly the first step, so I'd 23 make a motion that we authorize the County Judge to write a 24 letter to the County Attorney requesting an opinion as to 25 the permitted organization of the Kerr County Unit Road 3-8-04 37 1 System, specifically as it relates to the County Engineer 2 and the Road Administrator. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I second. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Any 5 further questions or discussion upon the motion? 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I will just say, I 7 think it -- I agree, it's a necessary first step. We, all 8 five of us, need to be of one mind on what we can do before 9 we work on what we should do. 10 MS. SOVIL: Do you want to set a time frame 11 on that? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think the -- and 13 I -- I said set a workshop on here, but I think it may be 14 premature a little bit for time frame, though I think we 15 need to do in late April, early May. Probably late April 16 would be the -- my preference, but I think we could set that 17 workshop at either the next -- one of the next two 18 Commissioners Court meetings, depending on, you know, 19 conversations with the -- from the County -- feedback from 20 the County Attorney. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any further question or 22 discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion, 23 signify by raising your right hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 3-8-04 38 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Close enough. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a public hearing set 5 for 10 a.m. this morning, and it appears that we've got 6 significant participation. And the court coordinator was 7 kind enough to prepare a notice to put on the door when it 8 appeared that we were going to have that type of 9 participation, that it's appropriate for us to hold that 10 where we've got more room for all you people to sit. We 11 want everybody that wants to appear to be there and to 12 listen and speak to have that opportunity, so we'll be going 13 upstairs to District Courtroom Number 1, which, as you get 14 off the elevator, if you'll immediately turn to the right 15 and as you go down a short ways, you'll see the double door 16 entrance to Courtroom Number 1 there on your left after 17 going a short ways down. So, at this time, we will stand in 18 recess, subject to calling the public hearing on the issue 19 as stated on the agenda. Give everybody an opportunity to 20 get on up there. 21 (Recess taken from 9:53 a.m. to 10 a.m.) 22 - - - - - - - - - - 23 (The regular Commissioners Court meeting was closed at 10 a.m., and a public hearing was 24 held in open court, as follows:) 25 P U B L I C H E A R I N G 3-8-04 39 1 JUDGE TINLEY: I will now open the public 2 hearing which was posted for 10 a.m. this date, the public 3 hearing being for the consideration of the Commissioners 4 Court to authorize the freezing of ad valorem property tax 5 values on the residential property owners who are elderly or 6 disabled beginning in 2004. By way of initial remarks, I 7 realize we have a number of people here today. We want to 8 give each and every one of you an opportunity to be heard. 9 We would ask that you -- to the degree that you're able to 10 condense your remarks, that you do so, so that everybody has 11 that opportunity. I do not have a list of sign-ups, with a 12 couple of exceptions. I will go ahead; the ones that I do 13 have, I will call first. But the thing I would ask you to 14 do is to be mindful of your fellow citizens, and if your 15 comments are highly repetitive, you might want to consider 16 condensing them, or in some cases, maybe omitting them by 17 referring to another speaker or the previous speaker, 18 whatever, so that we can try and conserve time, but still 19 give everybody an opportunity to be heard. So, having 20 called the public hearing, the first one that I have is 21 Mr. Maury Evans, and if Mr. Evans will come forward, and he 22 may give his address to the reporter, and we'll look forward 23 to hearing from you. 24 MR. EVANS: I want to apologize that I didn't 25 make enough copies for this; apparently, a lot more people 3-8-04 40 1 here than I anticipated. And so I apologize again that I'm 2 going to read it very quickly, because I hate to have people 3 read stuff to me when I've got it in front of me, but I know 4 a lot of you don't have it, so I'm just going to read this 5 thing very quickly and run through it. There's two pages. 6 The first page is my particular opinions, and the second 7 page is the certified value for 2003 for the Kerr Central 8 Appraisal District. And if you look at your first page, 9 I'll start reading that. 10 Many disabled and elderly persons, because of 11 low incomes, do need some financial relief through an ad 12 valorem tax freeze. Many do not. While I would personally 13 benefit, I am opposed to an across-the-board freeze for the 14 following reasons. Either a freeze would shift property 15 taxes to the remaining taxpayers or result in severe cuts in 16 services such as law enforcement. And many others, as a 17 matter of fact. Two. Many of the remaining taxpayers are 18 wage earners who are trying to raise a family, and many work 19 for low wages. Even if they are not homeowners, they -- 20 they pay property taxes indirectly through added rent paid 21 to the landlord. They cannot afford to have either their 22 taxes or their rents raised. Three. Already much of our 23 property value is not being taxed. According to the 2003 24 certified values for the Kerr Central Appraisal District for 25 Kerr County, the net taxable value is $2,423,538,916, while 3-8-04 41 1 the certified total market value is $3,290,358,209. That's 2 only about 73.7 percent of the market value is being taxed. 3 Of that 73.7 percent, the taxes are further 4 shifted because of such things as freezes on school taxes 5 and homestead exemptions. Since Kerr County has one of the 6 highest average ages in the state, an across-the-board 7 freeze would apply to a very large number of homeowner -- 8 home-owning taxpayers. Incidentally, back in the 1980's -- 9 in the '80 census, Kerr County had the second highest 10 average age in the state, exceeded only by Llano County. 11 Four. Many like myself do not really need this freeze. We 12 already get a freeze on our school taxes and a discount on 13 things such as food -- I'm sorry -- such as -- I'm reading 14 from a different one. Oh. Many like myself do not really 15 need this freeze. We already get discounts on things such 16 as income taxes, like extra exemptions if you're over 65, on 17 food, entertainment, travel, park entrance fees -- and in 18 some cases, you don't have to pay entrance fees at all if 19 you're born in September of 1930, before then -- and bank 20 accounts, as well as freeze on our school taxes. 21 Five, our low-wage earners need help and not 22 more pain. Six, we should stop trying to shift our fair 23 share of the tax burden to others. And I might point out 24 that the State is continually putting unfunded mandates down 25 on the counties that increases our taxes, or at least the 3-8-04 42 1 services we have to provide. The federal government is 2 shifting taxes down to the school districts because of the 3 so-called No Child Left Behind Act, in which they mandated 4 things to do, but didn't fund them. And back in the Bush 5 administration in Texas, when he was governor, they put 6 homestead exemption on school taxes, and which they were 7 going to pay for the loss through state taxes, which they 8 have not lived up to their bargain. And so, basically, 9 what's happening is everybody's trying to shift some taxes 10 from themselves to somebody else, and I don't think we can 11 do it forever. Thank you. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. In order to 13 try and do this in somewhat of an orderly fashion, what I'm 14 going to do is call upon the first row on this side, my 15 right, and then we'll go back and then we'll work our way 16 back to the front after we get to the back. Is there anyone 17 here on the first row that wishes to be heard on this issue? 18 MS. GAMBLE: The only issue I would like to 19 bring up -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: You need to come forward, 21 please, ma'am, and give your name and address, and then let 22 us -- 23 MS. GAMBLE: No, I don't want to do that. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Pardon? 25 MS. GAMBLE: I don't want to do that. 3-8-04 43 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Is -- you, sir? 2 Do you wish to be heard? Anyone in the second row? How 3 about the next row? Yes, sir? Please come forward and give 4 your name and address, and whatever you have to say. 5 MR. BLANKENSHIP: Yes, sir. I'm Don 6 Blankenship, and I agree with everything that gentleman 7 said; however, there's an element that he overlooked. I 8 read in the paper all the time about an impact study. I 9 want to tell you what the impact will be, and I hope save 10 the taxpayers some money. Forty-some years ago, I left 11 Texas to raise my kids in Arizona because it was better. A 12 little old dirt-street village out there I incorporated has 13 become the wealthiest per capita town in the United States. 14 It's a city now. It did it because of retirees. The 15 element that's lacking in his statement was this. In 16 essence, it's better to have 10 people paying $1,000 a year 17 for taxes than it is to have one person paying $10,000, and 18 that's what we have now. 19 And these turnkey villages such as Comanche 20 Trace and The Summit and others, it costs us very little. 21 In fact, Comanche Trace was putting up their own street 22 signs. Now, what has happened out there as a result of 23 these retirees coming in, they do not vie for jobs. They 24 create jobs. They support the arts. They support the 25 theaters. We have, in effect, 10 persons paying $1,000 a 3-8-04 44 1 year rather than one paying 10. These houses that are built 2 in Comanche Trace, I know them well. I've priced them. And 3 friends that would normally move back to Texas, as my wife 4 and I did, won't because they won't pay $10,000 and $12,000 5 a year for a house that's already inflated, inflated in 6 price because the infrastructure is included in the price of 7 the house. So, a $300,000 house -- Walmart kids don't buy 8 those -- it's $400,000 because of the infrastructure. That 9 continues on down the line for taxes. 10 Now, we headed up, my wife and I, for 10 11 years, an organization. Let me tell you some of the 12 benefits from having retirees come in. Aside from not vying 13 for jobs, they create jobs. They support the arts. They 14 support the theaters. And look around you here in town; 15 they're spending a lot more money. Abe Ribikov wrote a 16 book -- he was an economic adviser for John F. Kennedy -- 17 about money in motion; explains very plainly and simply what 18 it means to have more retirees moving in that are spending 19 money, supporting these things. We had mentors getting the 20 kids through school and their math; didn't cost us a dime. 21 We had those people teaching music to these kids. Juvenile 22 delinquency went down. If anyone's interested in greater 23 in-depth detail about these things, I'll be glad to provide 24 it. 25 We were and are so successful out there with 3-8-04 45 1 retirees, adding money, the jobs are better, the itinerant 2 workers that normally went to Salinas for onions and Idaho 3 for potatoes and over into California to pick lettuce, 4 they're stable citizens now, driving new pickups and living 5 in good homes; got their children in permanent, well-built 6 high schools. These are all a result of people like myself 7 and others that would come in. But they won't take $10,000 8 or $12,000 a year for taxes. I've talked to people -- the 9 realtors around here, and they're losing sales. So, to get 10 quality growth, it's almost 100 percent in the asset column. 11 The credit column, not the debit column. The people that 12 move in here, they aren't requiring services. They aren't 13 Medicaid people, which is welfare, as you all know. They're 14 on Medicare and they have supplemental insurance, 99 percent 15 plus assets to the villages. 16 We are and were so successful at that, after 17 we retired, moved back here, the U.S. Congress invited us to 18 bring our people before them and speak about the mentoring 19 programs they had. The supported the local services. 20 Another fact that you can count on, the lowest per capita 21 crime rate in the United States is in Sun City out there and 22 in that area. They do all of those things. They save over 23 $3 million a year by supporting the Sheriff and crime 24 prevention programs and other things like this; 100 percent 25 total asset to the community. I would urge this 3-8-04 46 1 Commissioners Court to consider these things. If you want 2 more detail, you can find it through other programs that 3 have been highlighted out there on 60 Minutes and Good 4 Morning America. The U.S. Congress have all studied the 5 programs and found them exemplary for senior citizens' 6 programs to develop. I say that with all sincerity. And, 7 as I said, I agreed with the man who spoke first, but one 8 element that's critical to growth -- positive growth is a 9 good thing, and to view growth as a negative is a negative 10 attitude. To see it as a positive thing, it's a successful 11 thing. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. 13 (Applause.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there anyone else on that 15 same row that the previous gentleman was sitting on that 16 wishes to be heard? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Maury, you're missing 18 your chance to do it again. 19 MR. EVANS: Once is enough. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Let's go to the 21 next row. How about someone on the next row? Yes, sir. If 22 you'll come forward and give your name and address, please? 23 MR. MILLER: Wilbert Miller from Greenwood 24 Forest, 205 Spanish Oak Lane. I would like the Commission 25 to consider a person -- in other words, this other gentleman 3-8-04 47 1 stated that a lot of us don't need it, but there are some 2 that do need it. So, to -- to keep them from getting it and 3 freezing the taxes, I think if they could -- some way, 4 they're going to have to -- you're going to have to go down 5 and sign up. They could bring their income tax, and if it's 6 below a certain amount -- this is what I think the -- I'd 7 like to see the committee consider, that they go down and 8 say, "Well, $15,000, then your taxes are frozen," as in 9 income tax. And that way, nobody would be -- and if they 10 don't have to file one, then they can always admit this. 11 And, so, this is my only suggestion. Thank you. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. Is there 13 anyone else from that same row that wishes to come forward 14 and be heard? Anyone else from that same row? Let's go to 15 the next row. Anyone from the following row? You folks, 16 I'm sure, are keeping up back there better than I can, 17 because I can't see back there too well now. But if there's 18 anyone else -- we're going to come back down this left-hand 19 side. Anyone else from that row? Okay. Let's go to the 20 next row. Yes, sir. Please come forward and give your name 21 and -- 22 MR. WRIGHT: I'm Ben Wright, 200 West Creek 23 Road. The problem we have as elderly citizens in this 24 county, many of us are on a fixed income. We're on Social 25 Security and an annuity. California's a typical example of 3-8-04 48 1 what can happen if we don't do something about it. They 2 passed laws like this, because a citizen can come in here 3 and turn 65 and retire. His taxes are reasonable; he pays 4 them. Ten years down the road, his taxes have tripled or 5 quadrupled, and his income has not changed, so consequently, 6 he can't pay his taxes and then you come to take his house. 7 This is the problem we've got if you don't do something 8 about it. Our county evaluations are growing very, very 9 fast. I agree with the man who spoke first, the retirees 10 don't use as much services. So, consequently, there are 11 arguments there as to whether or not they actually are using 12 the amount of taxes that they're paying. To end it up, to 13 me, the voters have already spoken. They've told you what 14 they want. Act on it, please. Thank you. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. 16 (Applause.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there anyone else from the 18 row where the gentleman just seated himself? Okay. Let's 19 go to the next row. Is there anyone from the row -- anyone 20 from that row who wishes to be heard? Okay. Next row? 21 Yes, sir? Please come forward and give your name and 22 address. 23 MR. ELLER: Thank you. My name's Charlie 24 Eller, 108 Wild Timber, Greenwood Forest. There's been a 25 lot of speculation on the impact on county revenues and the 3-8-04 49 1 increases for taxes on all other property owners. My 2 position is simple. The impact of this amendment happens to 3 be zero. The only way this freeze will have an adverse 4 impact on anyone is if the Commissioners Court plans to 5 increase spending, and then you would have to increase 6 spending over and above the new taxes on new construction. 7 It's time to implement this amendment. The voters have 8 already overwhelmingly, by about 87 percent-to-nothing, 9 approved it. I believe the voters knew full well what they 10 were voting for, and I believe you should listen to the 11 people who care enough to vote. They've spoken to you. I 12 urge the Court to look for ways to reduce spending instead 13 of looking for ways to increase taxes. Thank you. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. 15 (Applause.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Is there anyone 17 else on that same row that wishes to come forward and be 18 heard? Anyone else? Okay. Let's move back to the next 19 row. Anyone from that row who wishes to come forward and be 20 heard on this issue? Okay. Now we go back one more row. 21 Anyone else there? All right. We're to the back. Anyone 22 wishing to come forward? The administrative assistant is 23 polling you now as she comes back down the -- my left-hand 24 side. Yes, sir? Please come forward and give your name and 25 address. Thank you. 3-8-04 50 1 MR. COOK: G.L. Cook at 2 Cave Spring Drive 2 in Hunt. Been questioned about the portability of this tax 3 exemption, I believe, and I'd like to advise the people that 4 from what I've learned from getting a copy of the 5 resolutions, number 16, is -- and message -- e-mail from the 6 State Comptroller, this portability is not permanent. In 7 other words, if you have a $50,000 house and you're paying, 8 let's say, $500 a month on it -- or I mean $500 a year tax, 9 then you sell that property and buy a $500,000 house, you're 10 not going to continue to pay only $500. You're going to pay 11 a percentage. That's proportionate in the resolution, so 12 you're not frozen to that same tax rate, regardless of the 13 houses you buy. But my essential point I want to make is 14 that piece of property which may be exempt under this rule 15 is not in perpetuity. In my particular subdivision, it's 16 been my experience over the last 17 years that most people 17 that move there and buy new homes or build homes, they're in 18 the age bracket of 55 to 65, and recently retired. And it's 19 also been my observation, after 15 years, 16, 17 years, 20 those same people realize that those lots -- where I live, 21 most of them are 2 to 5 acres. Those lots and large houses 22 are just too much for them to take care of. They can't do 23 it any more. They don't want to. So they sell the houses 24 and move into town into an apartment and this sort of thing, 25 and pass that same piece of property on to someone younger 3-8-04 51 1 than 55, in most all cases, so that property tax is going to 2 continue to increase until that particular person becomes 3 eligible for this inception. Thank you. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. 5 MR. COOK: One other point I want to make. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, sir? 7 MR. COOK: Regarding the statement the first 8 gentleman made. He said if it is not increased -- or this 9 goes into effect, you're going to have to cut expenditures 10 in such areas as law enforcement. You know, I'm 80 years 11 old, and I've been listening to politics for 60 years, and 12 any time federal government on down to city government -- 13 that's always the argument you hear, "We're going to have to 14 cut police enforcement -- law, fire protection, and 15 education." That's always the three things that every 16 politician is going to say. You've said the same thing. 17 Look around; look at your budget. We've seen waste here in 18 Kerr County. Just take a look at it. You do not need to 19 cut law enforcement. And, by the way, that's the only 20 services I've been benefited by from the County, really, 21 outside of paying my taxes. And the Sheriff's been very 22 responsive. Never required any other services to speak of. 23 I have medical insurance, so I'm not a liability on the 24 County there, and I don't move into other areas. I thank 25 you. 3-8-04 52 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. 2 (Applause.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there anyone else on -- on 4 that row that the gentleman just spoke from? Okay, let's 5 start coming forward. Anyone else wishing to come forward 6 and be heard on this subject? Yes, sir? Thank you. Please 7 come forward and give your name and address. 8 MR. GIBSON: Hi. My name is Bill Gibson. I 9 live in Greenwood Forest. You need an address? I don't 10 know what it is now; 9-1-1 changed it on me. I think it's 11 110 Wild Timber Drive. I wanted to ask a question of the 12 Court. Does school taxes -- they're already frozen. Does 13 that have anything to do with the County at all? As 14 Mr. Evans mentioned in his letter here, and the Head Start 15 program that he was talking about, of cutting it down, I 16 thought school taxes had something -- was totally separate 17 from what you guys are doing with county taxes. Maybe I'm 18 mistaken, but I'm -- I'd like an answer on that, if 19 possible. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: The difficulty we have at a 21 public hearing, we can take comment, but we can't engage in 22 a debate with you. 23 MR. GIBSON: Okay. Well, it was my 24 understanding that school taxes were totally separate of 25 this, but I'm not sure. You know, I'd just like some 3-8-04 53 1 clarity on that. Otherwise, I have to say that I'm in 2 support of what Mr. Eller proposed, and that we do this 3 freeze. Because, as the gentleman so eloquently said from 4 Hunt, every time you sell a piece of property, the taxes go 5 in at the new level, and that's what they found in 6 California and other places that do have freezes. So, I'm 7 in support of it. Thank you. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. 9 (Applause.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Anyone else on that same row? 11 Okay, coming to the next row. Yes, ma'am? 12 MS. LINES: I'm Velma Lines. I live at 111 13 Wild Timber, Greenwood Forest. I'm real nervous. Buster, 14 we go to the same church, so I'm going to look right 15 straight at you. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. I'll sit up 17 here; I'll give you a good target. But don't throw 18 anything. 19 MS. LINES: Okay. And if you vote against 20 this, I'm going to put you our prayer list. (Laughter.) 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, ma'am. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Ought to do that 23 anyhow. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, please do 25 anyway. 3-8-04 54 1 MS. LINES: As I said, I'm a widow woman. My 2 husband retired from the Corps of Engineers, and he left me 3 a small annuity and Social Security. I have a little 4 investment which gives me about $2,000 a month to live on. 5 Now, you figure that up; I've got to pay nearly $900 school 6 taxes and your taxes. Every year I go to the tax department 7 and argue with them about my taxes. That's degrading to me 8 to have to do that. I need a break. And why does people 9 think that everybody retires in Kerrville is millionaires? 10 'Cause I'm sure not. I retired here because of the climate. 11 I had to move out of the Houston area. Isn't that 12 wonderful, to move out of a place like that to a place like 13 this? I have children also. My son's retired from the 14 Navy; he works on the naval base at -- he's a jet mechanic. 15 My daughter's worked for NASA for 37 years. They pay taxes 16 too. But let them go through some hard times like I did. 17 I'm not going to worry about what my kids is going to have 18 to pay. I'm worried about myself. I'm trying to hold on to 19 the home that my husband left me in, and I'd like to be able 20 to stay there, but if these taxes keep going up the way they 21 are, I'm going to have to sell. I can't stay there. I 22 thank you very much for listening. Thanks, Buster. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 24 (Applause.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you very much, ma'am. 3-8-04 55 1 Anyone else on that same row? 2 MS. RHODES: I'm Gladys Rhodes from 400 Mack 3 Hollimon Drive. My husband wasn't able to come; he was not 4 feeling too well. But I thoroughly agree with Mr. Eller in 5 regards to the freezing of the taxes here in Kerrville. We 6 moved here and we live on a very limited income. We manage 7 to stay out of welfare, but we do not agree with the idea of 8 every year since we have lived here, our taxes have gone up. 9 Fortunately, we were 65 when we moved here; our school taxes 10 were frozen. But every other tax district -- appraisal on 11 our home goes up, and it hasn't changed. In fact, it has 12 not had anything done to it since we've moved into it, but 13 we try to maintain it. But I do not see the need of 14 increasing every single year just to gain more money for 15 spending on waste, which I see all the time here in the 16 county. Things that -- in other words, not all of us play 17 golf, so we don't really need a golf course as such for us. 18 But money is spent on things like that, where it could be 19 spent on other things. Thank you. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. 21 (Applause.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there anyone else on that 23 same row that the lady -- where the lady was seated that 24 wishes to come forward? Anyone else? Why don't we come 25 forward a row, then. Next row? Anyone wishing to come 3-8-04 56 1 forward and speak? Okay. Next row coming this direction? 2 Yes, sir. Come forward please, sir. 3 MR. CASTILLO: Claudio Castillo, 807 Laura 4 Belle. I'm really floored. I'm surprised that everybody 5 seems to be opposed. I came in here to oppose, and I 6 thought I was going to be alone in opposing freezing ad 7 valorem taxes for 65 and for the handicapped. Now I'm 8 wondering -- it's -- my head's spinning here -- if I 9 shouldn't be on the other side. But a gentleman brought up 10 the idea that perhaps those people that are in the lower 11 income should be considered, but I'm opposed to freezing ad 12 valorem. I'm certainly not surprised that so many people 13 seem to be able to afford to pay their taxes after 65. I 14 feel like I'll be able to pay my taxes after I'm 65. I 15 don't see any problem with that. I hope you freeze your -- 16 your salaries, and I hope you freeze the County employees' 17 salaries if you do. So, that's where I stand. I'm -- I 18 guess I oppose freezing. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Thank you, sir. 20 Anyone else on that same row that wishes to come forward? 21 Yes, sir? 22 MR. COSS: I'm Donald Coss, 106 Spanish Oak 23 Lane. I also live in Greenwood Forest. I would support the 24 utilization of this opportunity to lessen the tax burden on 25 both the disabled and the senior citizen. In regards to 3-8-04 57 1 those people who feel that they're affluent enough to where 2 they can avoid taking advantage of that, they have the 3 opportunity not to apply for it. I think the concept of 4 bringing income tax statements in only adds another layer of 5 bureaucracy to something that we don't need to have. I 6 think it can be up to the individual to do that. I also 7 firmly believe that if you look at the burden on the county 8 government from those people that would be frozen, you will 9 find that it's considerably less than the average citizen 10 is, and therefore I support your adoption of this 11 resolution. Thank you. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. 13 (Applause.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I realize that some of you may 15 have come in late or may have had something triggering your 16 mind to cause you to want to come forward when you were 17 previously given the opportunity, but decided not to. I 18 don't want anybody to be excluded. Anybody that has 19 anything to say during this public hearing, I want them to 20 have that opportunity. So, if there is anybody, whether you 21 came in late or just passed last time, or had another 22 thought or idea come to you during the course of these 23 discussions, anyone else that wishes to come forward? 24 Please. Please. 25 MS. GAMBLE: Well, I guess I've got something 3-8-04 58 1 to say. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Come forward, 3 ma'am. 4 MS. GAMBLE: I'll just come on and say it. 5 My name is Jeanette Gamble. I live at 251 Burney Oaks. I 6 went through this freezing of the school taxes, and the 7 young children in the neighborhood came to me one time and 8 said, "You're old and you don't have to pay any school 9 taxes." Well, let me tell you, every year I have to go down 10 and I have to pay $1,000 -- excuse me, I lack $7 being 11 $1,000. I don't want our community to be divided over 12 another tax freeze. In the paper, Mr. Williams, you stated 13 someone's got to foot the bill. These kind of things are 14 bad. If you don't want to freeze the taxes, don't do it, 15 but don't blame the people after it's done. Do you 16 understand what I'm saying? Did you know that most people 17 think that we don't pay school taxes because we're elderly? 18 That's the truth. I've never seen it in the paper that we 19 -- you say it's frozen, so they think we don't pay anything. 20 That's not right. So, if you freeze this, I want to see how 21 much taxes I have to pay every year. Thank you. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. 23 (Applause.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Anyone else? Anyone else that 25 has not had an opportunity? We want you to have the 3-8-04 59 1 opportunity. Yes, sir? Yes, sir, please come forward. 2 MR. SMITH: My name is Gene Smith. I live on 3 Antelope Trail. The problem that you gentlemen and myself, 4 as a City Council -- if I get re-elected. This city is 5 unique and the county is unique, to the extent we don't have 6 as much industry here. We have a lot of retired people. We 7 have a lot of retired people here with a lot of money, so 8 it's not an easy question. As you can see, different people 9 have different viewpoints on this. And I think each of the 10 taxing entities are going to be exposed to this same thing. 11 But it's -- the state law is a general law that applies to 12 all of the counties and the cities in the state. And, 13 unfortunately, a general law doesn't address the uniqueness 14 of each piece of taxing entity, like the County and 15 Kerrville, the city. And it's -- it's real difficult, and 16 each of the taxing entities in this area are going to have 17 the same problem. And it's something that -- people don't 18 realize that government has no money; it's their money. So 19 if people want more goods and services, somebody's going to 20 have to pay taxes. And Texas doesn't have -- on taxes, 21 Texas doesn't have income tax, and so we have to get the 22 money somewhere, and I wish there was more flexibility in 23 the state law that you could -- you could manipulate it. 24 But, as I understand, we can't change the state law, so I 25 wish everybody would bear with each of the individual 3-8-04 60 1 government entities on this, because it's not an easy 2 problem to solve. Thank you. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hear, hear. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. 5 (Applause.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there anyone else that 7 wishes to come forward and be heard on this subject? Anyone 8 else? Stick your hand up so that we don't miss you. Yes, 9 sir. Come forward, please, sir. 10 MR. PECK: Thank you. I came in late. My 11 name is Jim Peck. I live at 218 Spanish Oak Lane in 12 Greenwood Forest. I moved here two years ago from Colorado. 13 I lived at the foot of the Colorado National Monument, 14 looked up at 2,000 feet of rock that rose above my home. 15 Beautiful place, paradise, but I left there partly because 16 expenses were so high, and I moved to Grand Junction. I 17 didn't buy a house in the city, because I -- I bid on a 18 house to buy it, and they turned me down, and when they did, 19 I found out how much my taxes would be, and I just almost 20 fainted. My taxes would have been over $6,000 a year, taxes 21 on -- you know, on that house up in Grand Junction, 22 Colorado. I lived in a house that was not quite twice as 23 big as the one I live in now, but much larger, and I paid 24 less taxes there than I pay here. 25 I live in the county; I don't have to pay 3-8-04 61 1 city taxes, but my county taxes and my school taxes are more 2 where I live now than they were up in Colorado. And I've 3 been retired for 12 years, and I hope to live a little 4 longer, and if I do, I'm afraid the day is going to come 5 when I'll have to leave Kerrville, because I'll not be able 6 to afford to live in this city. I think it's a beautiful 7 city. I love living here. I love the people. But if I 8 can't afford to live there, I have to go somewhere else. 9 And, you know, I guess all of us old folks someday are going 10 to have to move to Mexico and learn Spanish, because we 11 won't be able to afford to live in the United States. And 12 part of it's going to be because people think that even 13 though we're older and we're on a fixed income and nothing 14 is changing for us, that we ought to somehow or another be 15 able to find money to pay for new facilities that other 16 people want. 17 And I understand that, you know, we need 18 growth in our town and the town needs to have new amenities, 19 but the amenities really ought to be paid for by the people 20 who are going to use them. And -- and maybe it means having 21 fees that we charge people that are reasonable for the -- 22 for the services that they're receiving. If we just raise 23 taxes and we don't charge fees for services that people 24 receive and use, then we're making everybody pay as though 25 we were all using those facilities, but it isn't true. I 3-8-04 62 1 used to golf, but I don't golf any more, because I'm not 2 physically able to. And so today, I don't have to pay green 3 fees, but I'm paying for the golf course. Aren't I? No? 4 No? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. 6 MR. PECK: I'm not? No fee on the golf 7 course, okay. If you never built a golf course, I guess my 8 argument is erroneous. But the fact is that I think people 9 ought to pay for services. And if we pay for services, I 10 think -- for instance, I think we ought to charge people 11 more to drive their car. If it takes more to keep the roads 12 up, we shouldn't increase general taxes so that we can keep 13 roads up. If we need more money to collect garbage or 14 whatever, we ought to charge for that service, and not just 15 raise taxes on property so that we can pay for all the other 16 things that people want. I -- I've only lived here two 17 years. I like it a lot. But if -- if we don't put a limit 18 on what we charge people for living in our city, then we all 19 are going to wind up in Mexico someday. Thank you very 20 much. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. 22 (Applause.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there anyone else who has 24 not had the opportunity to come forward and be heard that 25 wishes to be heard? 3-8-04 63 1 MS. LINES: Can I have a follow-up? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: I suppose so. Do you want to 3 talk to Buster again? 4 MS. LINES: Yes. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: The rest of us are listening, 6 however. 7 MS. LINES: I went through a little deal on 8 -- back down to the tax office I go. Article come out in 9 the paper -- it's about four years after I lost my 10 husband -- and it said if your husband was a disabled 11 veteran, you get a cut on your taxes. Don't believe it. I 12 went down to the tax office and I said, "Why didn't y'all 13 tell me I could have this? Here's four years I could have 14 been getting this." "Yeah, you can get it. Get us a thing 15 from the Veterans." I did that, come back, go back down 16 there. I'm going to get a cut on that. I said, "Why didn't 17 y'all tell me -- put a thing in my taxes when you sent it to 18 me?" They said, "Well, we put it in the paper every year." 19 Everybody don't get that paper. And I don't read all that 20 tax stuff, so I had never seen it. So, down to the school 21 tax I go, and she tells me that bill hasn't passed, but when 22 it does, I'm going to have to go right back to the taxes -- 23 my taxes will be frozen on what it is right now, instead of 24 back when I froze them to begin with. She said, "You'll 25 lose money." So, that went out the window. The school 3-8-04 64 1 taxes are frozen, so I'm looking at all my school taxes back 2 to see just what they were, and I noticed it had raised 3 some. Back down to the school tax office I go, and I said, 4 "How come this is this way?" And she said, "Because we can 5 unfreeze your school taxes and raise them and then freeze 6 them back again." Now, how many people know that? 7 MS. GAMBLE: If you add something. 8 MS. LINES: I don't add nothing. I can't 9 afford to on $2,000 a month. Taxes is eating me up. They 10 told me at the tax office, "Well, you can let it go and not 11 pay your taxes. Clinton pays that bill. And not pay your 12 taxes, and when you sell your property, then we collect all 13 the taxes out of it." They didn't tell me how much interest 14 was going to be charged on that. You know, tax department 15 ain't going to get my house. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There you go. 17 MS. LINES: Thank you. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Yes, sir, 19 Mr. Evans? 20 MR. EVANS: I think there's some confusion 21 about what people are paying taxes and what entities and so 22 forth, and so I would urge people that if they look at the 23 second page of what I handed out, that's a summary for the 24 whole county, the Kerr County Appraisal District. And if 25 you go through that, on Page 10 -- 9 and 10, there's a 3-8-04 65 1 breakdown of the kinds of exemptions there are and so forth, 2 so there's more detail. So, if you need more information 3 about who's really paying the taxes and who's not, I'd urge 4 you to get -- go into that document from the Assessor's 5 office -- or the Kerr County Appraisal District is where 6 they have it. It's a big book about that thick. And, for 7 instance, on the disabled veterans in the county, there are 8 eight -- if I'm reading it right, there's 874 disabled vets, 9 and the taxes -- the exemptions on there, that's on the 10 value of 9 million 21 thousand some-odd dollars. So, there 11 are disabled veterans getting tax exemptions. There are 12 actually 340 disabled people that are not getting tax 13 exemptions because of the County, but getting disabled 14 exemptions from some other entity, so a lot of people are 15 getting some relief. And I'm not trying to say that people 16 who really need relief -- I agree with the gentleman from 17 out at Comanche Trace. You have to be careful and look at 18 the tax structure overall. But taxes are basically unfair; 19 there just isn't any other way of looking at it. And so you 20 just got to try to make them the least unfair as you can. 21 Thank you. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. Okay. Is 23 that all? Are we going to do a round two here? 24 MR. BLANKENSHIP: I have a 20-second 25 postscript. 3-8-04 66 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All right, sir. 2 MR. BLANKENSHIP: My name's Don Blankenship. 3 It's 250 Wharton Road; I forgot to give that already. 4 Postscript is this. If you broaden your tax base with 5 citizens that aren't a burden to the government, and that's 6 what we've done out there, then everybody's taxes can stay 7 low, senior as well as young people. And we have proved it 8 out there with the city of Surprise and the three Sun Citys 9 that surround it now. Everybody's taxes are relatively low 10 because of the tax base being so broad, and they don't 11 burden the system with kids in school and all the other 12 things that younger people burden the system with. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Is there anyone 14 who has not had the opportunity to speak that wishes to be 15 heard? That's who I want to give first -- yes, ma'am? 16 MS. RECTOR: I'm Paula Rector, County Tax 17 Assessor/Collector. This topic could be argued both ways, 18 and since I am under 65, I kind of look at it as most of the 19 people that are under 65 look at it. But just a few 20 statistics that we've been working with, trying to gather 21 the information to see what kind of impact this was going to 22 have at the county level. At this point, we have 5,951 23 accounts that are over-age and disabled. The total assessed 24 on these accounts is $626,849,047. That's the assessed on 25 these accounts, 5,951. That would mean the tax amount of 3-8-04 67 1 $2.1 million which would be frozen. We don't know what the 2 impact is going to be at this point; we won't know for a 3 couple of years. As people turn 65 and apply for their 4 over-age exemption, they qualify. People are living longer. 5 Surviving spouses 55 and older qualify when the over-65 6 person dies. 7 The over-65 people do have options that we do 8 not have. They have the option to make their taxes in 9 quarterly payments, which kind of spreads it out for them 10 over a period of time. They have a half payment option 11 which is -- all taxpayers have that option to pay their 12 taxes in two equal installments, the first paid in November, 13 the second half in June. Kind of spreads it out. Some of 14 us pay our taxes that way. They have their quarterly 15 payments. They also have the deferral, which only applied 16 to taxpayers over 65 that were delinquent. Now it applies 17 to -- anyone over 65 can file a deferral. They can make 18 payments on their taxes. $10 a month, whatever they bring 19 us, we accept. The interest is lower. It goes from 20 12 percent to 8 percent, so there's a lot of things that the 21 over-65 people have the advantage of, where those of us do 22 not. The tax burden, then -- yes, it will shift down to the 23 business property owners and to the homeowners that are 65 24 and younger. 25 Just some of the things that I wanted to 3-8-04 68 1 point out, we might take a look at a dollar-amount exemption 2 instead of a freeze. That would benefit everyone, and not 3 just the people over 65. If we did a $15,000 or $20,000 4 exemption, that would benefit everybody that pays taxes, and 5 not just for the people that are over 65. It's just 6 something to think about, something to look at when we're 7 trying to decide which way we want to go with this. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 9 (Applause.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Anyone else? 11 MR. GIBSON: Can I get another 10 seconds? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All right, sir. I've got my 13 watch here. Now, I'm going to hold you to it. 14 MR. GIBSON: All right. It's Bill Gibson 15 again. The certified total market value is 3 billion versus 16 the assessed value. You know, the total market value is 17 only as good as if you sell it all. I'll leave it there. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 19 MR. SKOOG: Hi, I'm Wally Skoog. I live at 20 201 Wedgewood. Been hearing a lot about your -- the moneys 21 being spent. A lot of us are rich, a lot of us aren't. And 22 I guess I keep thinking that when I was working -- in fact, 23 last year, I still contact some of the people there, and 24 they were complaining that they had a 3 percent increase -- 25 increase in their wages. This year I had someplace between 3-8-04 69 1 1 and 2 percent on a third of my value -- a third of my 2 income, so I'm figuring that I'm getting someplace about a 3 .5 percent increase per year. Now, cost-of-living doesn't 4 go up very much; only goes up 1 or 2 percent. But the 5 insurance costs on my Medicare went up a heck of a lot more 6 than that. And one gentleman said when you get 65 and you 7 can't afford your taxes any more, you move, and I think that 8 there's a lot of us out here -- it doesn't make any 9 difference how much we're getting. If we're in the $30,000 10 bracket or the $40,000 bracket, we still are just barely 11 getting anything at all. And most of the people that are 12 younger -- at least when I was younger, I was increasing 13 my -- I was doubling my wages every 10 years. I think a lot 14 of people do that. Maybe now it's 15. But as a senior, 15 I'll double my wages someplace around the time I hit 210. 16 (Laughter.) You know, so I think the elderly people do have 17 a problem. Thank you. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. 19 (Applause.) 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I knew it. I knew it. 21 I knew it. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You knew I'd say 23 something. I'm going to say something just real quick, and 24 it's -- it's kind of talking on both sides. Yeah, I know, 25 set your watches. You haven't heard that in a while. As a 3-8-04 70 1 citizen, you know, when I retire -- and I'm definitely 2 looking towards that, but the way my retirement is set up 3 through the County, and county retirement is probably like a 4 lot of people is, when I retire, I get about half of my 5 salary, and it's froze at that until the day I die. There 6 are -- it's not like some state employees that get 7 cost-of-living raises with it. When my wife retires -- 8 she's been a schoolteacher for 25 years -- she gets no 9 Social Security, so her retirement is set too. So, the set 10 income -- I'm looking at it the other way. I'm younger; I'm 11 not there yet, but yes, when I retire, for me to be able to 12 afford my home and that, they need to be frozen. And the 13 other point of view is, with law enforcement and being the 14 Sheriff, the concern I had is you cannot cut law 15 enforcement. From what I've seen, being an officer in this 16 county for 24 years, it's not going to do anything but grow. 17 The demands on law enforcement are getting more and more, 18 and it's going to cost more and more money. When I started 19 with the Sheriff's Department 24 years ago, it was a 10-man 20 department, and we had about five inmates in jail. Now it's 21 a 94-person department and we got about 160 inmates in jail. 22 There are other ways to cut those costs. One way I see that 23 I complained about largely, and intend to keep complaining 24 about, is the cost of housing inmates. We have two very 25 nice courtrooms up here, and we have 12 trial days a year, 3-8-04 71 1 so I have inmates sitting out there that we take care of 2 their medical, their dental, their housing, their food and 3 everything, and they're sitting out there over a year just 4 waiting to go to trial. We have two district courts in this 5 county, and I think if we all work together, there can be 6 other ways to cut the cost on all of us. But, personally, 7 yeah, I think the taxes should be froze for that age, 'cause 8 at that age, we've all worked all our life to get to that 9 point, to retire. That's the main thing we all look forward 10 to do. And it's wrong if we can get to that point and then 11 we cannot afford to retire. Thank you. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 13 (Applause.) 14 MS. WELLBORN: I'm Dorothy Wellborn, and I 15 came back -- my roots are here deep. I was raised on a 16 ranch out between here and Bandera, and I -- my taxes have 17 almost doubled. And when you go, they'll give you maybe a 18 little bit off, but not very much. And they talk like us 19 old folks don't pay anything. I've paid taxes ever since 20 I've been here, and if they're frozen, they're frozen for 21 that group, but there are new people moving in all the time. 22 And if you get enough of us old folks, you'll have a lot 23 more money, but if you keep cutting what we can -- where we 24 can't make our payments, you're going to lose a lot of us. 25 And I don't know why it's such a -- well, what shall I 3-8-04 72 1 say? -- such a major thing as it's old folks against young 2 folks. It's almost like they talk about the generation gap. 3 When I grew up, we didn't have a generation gap, and we 4 didn't have old folks versus young folks either. We're -- 5 we'll still be paying money. We just will know what we're 6 going to have to pay instead of having to worry about what 7 we'll pay next year. And I don't see why -- it's been voted 8 that -- that it would be cut, or it would be frozen, so 9 that's the way I stand on it. I don't see that we're so bad 10 being old. 11 (Applause.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Seeing no one else 13 rise or otherwise wave their arms wildly to get my 14 attention, I want to thank all of you who participated here 15 today. We appreciate your comments. I assure you, we've 16 heard them, and we appreciate your effort and taking the 17 time to come and be with us here today and to let us know 18 what's on your mind. At this time, I will close the public 19 hearing, and we will reconvene the Commissioners Court 20 meeting at 10 after the hour, 11:10, downstairs. Thank you 21 very much. 22 (The public hearing was concluded at 10:58 a.m., and the regular Commissioners Court 23 meeting was reopened.) - - - - - - - - - - 24 (Recess taken from 10:58 a.m. to 11:10 a.m.) 25 - - - - - - - - - - 3-8-04 73 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's reconvene the 2 Commissioners Court meeting posted for this date. It's 3 about 12 minutes after 11:00. I think the clocks upstairs 4 are somewhat different from the clocks down here. But, be 5 that as it may, next item on the agenda is Number 7, 6 discussion of professional service proposals received for 7 the Texas Community Development Program projects, and 8 consider resolution designating the professional service 9 providers for the T.C.D.P. projects. We have Mr. Dave 10 Tucker with Grantworks with us today, who's -- 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mr. Kaviani's here 12 today. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: -- been overseeing this 14 project, and Mr. Kaviani, our project engineer on previous 15 projects. Mr. Tucker? 16 MR. TUCKER: Judge Tinley, Commissioners, 17 good morning. Thanks for seeing me this morning. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Speak up, Dave, or 19 move the mic up. 20 MR. TUCKER: Is this better? Is it on? 21 Okay. In 2002, the County applied for and was awarded a 22 Community Development Grant from the Office of Rural 23 Community Affairs in the amount of $250,000 to construct a 24 sewer line along Ranchero Road up in Kerrville South, from 25 State Highway 16 to Contour Drive. The purpose of this 3-8-04 74 1 grant was to provide sewer service to 25 households in that 2 area. We applied during the 2003/2004 program cycle, and it 3 was awarded for the 2004 program year. The Office of Rural 4 Community Affairs is creating the contracts right now 5 between the localities that received those grants, including 6 Kerr County, and the agency, and they could be distributed 7 anytime between this month and, I'd say, about June. It's 8 just how long it takes them to create these contracts. The 9 reason I'm here today is Grantworks has submitted a proposal 10 to assist the County in administering this project when it 11 becomes active, and my company's pleased to submit that 12 proposal and would like the Court to consider a resolution 13 designating Grantworks as the grant administrator on this 14 project and Tetra Tech as the engineering firm on this 15 project after you consider the proposals that you've 16 received. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Where are we on the 18 advertisement on these administrative and professional 19 aspects of -- of these new projects? 20 MR. TUCKER: Yes. An ad was run in the 21 Kerrville Daily Times -- let me check the date. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Probably January 30. 23 MR. TUCKER: I believe so. Yes, that's 24 right, thank you. Friday, January 30th. We also mailed the 25 Request for Proposal package to five area consulting 3-8-04 75 1 engineers and five area grant consultants as well. The 2 proposals were due on February 20th. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Did they come to the 4 receipt of the County Clerk or what? 5 MR. TUCKER: Yeah, to the office right here, 6 I believe. 7 MS. SOVIL: Treasurer's office. 8 MR. TUCKER: Treasurer's office? 9 MS. NEMEC: I received a packet, and it was 10 given to the County Clerk's office. I received a packet and 11 I gave it to the County Clerk's office, where the proposals 12 always go to. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Only -- I mean, I 14 guess -- are Tetra Tech and Grantworks the only two 15 proposals we received? 16 MR. TUCKER: I believe so. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay? And if we -- 19 if they're the only ones we receive, we can avoid the 20 scoring process that's required by O.R.C.A.; is that 21 correct? 22 MR. TUCKER: Yes, sir, that's correct. If 23 you only received one proposal for each activity, then you 24 don't need to rank and score. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And Grantworks is the 3-8-04 76 1 administrative company involved; has been since the 2 beginning. 3 MR. TUCKER: Yes, sir. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Tetra Tech has done 5 the engineering on Phases 1, 2, and -- whatever. 6 MR. TUCKER: Mm-hmm. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Currently. 8 MR. TUCKER: That's correct. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And would continue 10 doing engineering for the balance of the system; is that 11 correct? 12 MR. TUCKER: Yes, sir. This is in regards to 13 Phase 4, which is the final phase of what could be 14 considered the larger Kerrville South sewer project. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I would move 16 the resolution that would authorize Grantworks to be awarded 17 the contract to provide T.C.D.P. project-related 18 administrative planning and management services, and that 19 Tetra Tech, Incorporated, should be awarded a contract for 20 T.C.D.P. project-related professional engineer services for 21 the -- for the grants that have been awarded to Kerr County 22 for the remainder of the project. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Those are the program years 24 '04 through '06? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. 3-8-04 77 1 JUDGE TINLEY: T.C.D.P. grant project. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. And 3 authorize County Judge to sign same. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I second that 5 motion, but I have a question. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Motion's been made 7 and seconded. Questions or discussion? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What -- tell me, 9 how -- how do we know that we've received only one bid per 10 function? We don't know that, do we? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, we do. 12 MS. SOVIL: That's all we have. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So they've all -- 14 everything that's going to be accepted has come? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The time has come and 16 gone. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Time has come and 18 gone. I didn't understand that part. 19 MR. TUCKER: Yes, sir. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Very good. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One of each has come 22 forth. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess I have a 24 question. And I -- you may not be able to answer the 25 question. I can see that the administration is somewhat 3-8-04 78 1 specialized, and it's not real surprising to me that 2 Grantworks was the only one that submitted a bid. On the 3 engineering side, is it customary to only have one 4 request -- I looked at the list, and those are pretty large, 5 aggressive -- 6 MR. TUCKER: Sure. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not, certainly, large. I 8 guess, regional engineering companies that are pretty 9 aggressive. Is there a reason they wouldn't -- I mean, is 10 this rate lower than normal or something? 11 MR. TUCKER: It's really not unusual. I'm 12 going through the RFP process for about 10 or 15 localities 13 this year alone, and typically we only get one proposal for 14 each. I mean, for one thing, I believe other engineering 15 firms are aware that Tetra Tech did create the preliminary 16 plans for this application, and one of the dominant scoring 17 factors is former experience with the county. I believe -- 18 although I don't have it in front of me, I believe that's 40 19 of the 100 points, is prior experience. And so -- and those 20 scoring criteria are listed on our RFP packet that each 21 engineer received. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There is something -- as 23 an example, as far as this -- rather than thumbing through 24 it, C.E.C. was one of the other companies you sent it to. 25 The County has done work with C.E.C. before. They certainly 3-8-04 79 1 have a good reputation. 2 MR. TUCKER: Yeah, that would have helped. I 3 can't explain why other firms have not -- have not submitted 4 proposals. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So that I -- anyway, it 6 just seemed odd to me that -- 'cause, I mean -- and we've 7 done business with H.D.R., C.E.C. We've done others. 8 MR. TUCKER: Sure. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You raise a good 10 point. I think the record ought to reflect to whom 11 invitations for RFP went. Tetra Tech of San Antonio, Garcia 12 & Wright of San Antonio, Klein Engineering of San Antonio, 13 Civil Engineering Consultants of San Antonio, HDR-Simpson 14 Engineering, all San Antonio. And in terms of consulting 15 services for administration, the packages -- RFP packages 16 were forwarded to Grantworks, Incorporated, David Waxman & 17 Associates, Langford Community Management, Lucas Consulting, 18 and Municipal Consulting Services. So there were, what, 19 five or six in each category. 20 MR. TUCKER: May I ask, did any engineering 21 firms submit a form saying, "Thank you for the opportunity, 22 but we're not submitting a proposal at this time"? 23 MS. SOVIL: Not to me. 24 MR. TUCKER: Okay. That's -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It just, you know -- 3-8-04 80 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It is unusual. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess they're -- 3 MR. TUCKER: Yeah, it seems unusual from this 4 point of view, but that is typically what happens with these 5 projects. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: In addition to the specific 8 invitations that were given to the entities mentioned by 9 Commissioner Williams, there was also the public notice -- 10 MR. TUCKER: Yes, sir. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: -- generated, which was notice 12 to the world -- 13 MR. TUCKER: Yes. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: -- that they could submit a 15 proposal. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And particularly any 17 local engineering groups that might have been interested. 18 MR. TUCKER: Right, advertised in the local 19 Kerrville paper. We did not advertise it in the San Antonio 20 paper, for various reasons. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Any more questions or 22 discussion concerning the motion? All in favor of the 23 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 3-8-04 81 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Next 3 item -- 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, before you go 5 on, could we just take just one second just to bring the 6 Court up to date on where we are at the tail end of Phases 1 7 and 2? 8 MR. TUCKER: Sure, be very glad to give 9 you -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Go ahead and give us 11 a quick summary, if you will, Dave. 12 MR. TUCKER: Phase 1 includes adding sewer 13 lines in The Woods Mobile Home Park. The lines have been 14 laid. All the sewer lines are in the streets, and they are 15 nearly done making individual house connections; that is, 16 laying the yard lines so that each house can be hooked up to 17 the system. I believe an agreement is in place between the 18 City of Kerrville and the Upper Guadalupe River Authority. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is it? 20 MR. TUCKER: On treatment. They're almost 21 ready to turn the valve, as it were, and have the sewage 22 start to flow, but they're trying to figure out, does the 23 construction need to be absolutely complete for the science 24 to be completed, or substantial completion or what? But we 25 are very close to having each individual house connection 3-8-04 82 1 made, and hopefully within a month or six weeks of sewage 2 actually flowing, which would be a nice step after two and a 3 half years of work. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think one of the 5 final steps the City had required was the smoke test -- 6 MR. TUCKER: Yes. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- of the lines, and 8 it met the City's requirements. 9 MR. TUCKER: Excellent. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Whatever. 11 MR. TUCKER: So we've been working, it seems, 12 for a little while, but we're close to Phase 1 being 13 complete. Phase 2 and 3 are lots of sewer lines on Loyal 14 Valley Road and also Frederick and George Muck Road, which 15 is just west of the Oak Grove Mobile Home Park that we've 16 hooked up. We hope to bid out both Phase 2, which is a 2002 17 contract year with O.R.C.A., and Phase 3 in one big bid for 18 economy of scale. So, I think the thinking was, if it's a 19 larger construction project, we may be able to get more 20 favorable bids and be able to do more work for that amount. 21 Myself and Kamran and U.G.R.A. have been working with the 22 County on acquiring easements for that property. We're 23 continuing -- the necessary easements to lay those lines. 24 We're continuing to work on getting those easements, and 25 hopefully we'll bid out Phase 2 and 3 together very soon. 3-8-04 83 1 Phase 4, the one that I was talking about with our 2 administration/engineering contracts, the state contract 3 hasn't even been executed for that yet, so that won't even 4 become a live contract until sometime between now and June. 5 So, we're a little bit behind schedule, but we're catching 6 up, and when we bid out Phase 2 and 3 together, I think 7 we'll be caught up. I think we'll be in excellent condition 8 to start Phase 4. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Dave. 10 MR. TUCKER: Any questions about that? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 12 MR. TUCKER: Okay. Thank y'all. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Appreciate it. 14 MR. TUCKER: Thank you. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll move to the next item on 16 the agenda, Number 8, consider and discuss burn ban status. 17 Commissioner Letz. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: As my memo in the backup 19 said, I believe the burn ban officially expires today, and I 20 put it on the agenda so we can either extend it or not 21 extend it. And the other part of the backup -- and I 22 thought it was done, but I didn't get a copy. And the 23 County Attorney's here. The request for information related 24 to burn ban, I thought that it was done, but -- and you 25 were -- and I thought you had said that Commissioner 3-8-04 84 1 Nicholson had a copy of it or something to that effect. 2 MR. MOTLEY: No, I was saying last time we 3 talked that I thought that was where it was to be directed. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm sorry. 5 MR. MOTLEY: I don't know -- the information 6 is done. I don't know that it's been printed or 7 disseminated. I'm not positive about that part, but I can 8 find out. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, it's something I 10 just want to keep it up on the burner so that we can address 11 it when you get that, because I think that's something -- 12 something that's apparent, and we need to get it addressed, 13 really, before the summer months come, when the danger of 14 burning gets far greater. My personal feeling is that we do 15 not need a burn ban right now, but I'm willing to have one, 16 and then we can suspend it. Makes no difference to me. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, wouldn't -- it 18 just makes more sense to me to have one in place and suspend 19 it if we -- if need be, than to need it and -- and us not be 20 here. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Make a motion. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree with that. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move that we extend 24 the burn ban. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that an automatic 3-8-04 85 1 90 days or what? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, automatic 90 3 days. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll second it. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: That's with the understanding, 6 as in the past, where each individual Commissioner has the 7 authority to lift or reimpose by notification to the Court's 8 administrative assistant, who will then disseminate that 9 information in accordance with however -- how it was 10 directed at the last meeting? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And prescribed burns 12 are permitted with a plan in place. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I wouldn't say it 15 exactly like that, but yes. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Motion made and 17 seconded to reinstitute the burn ban. Any further questions 18 or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 19 raising your right hand. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I want to 23 suspend it in Precinct 2 for two weeks, effective 24 immediately. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And 3. 3-8-04 86 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And 4. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I've already -- I said 3 yes, I'm extending mine. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did you get that nod? 5 That was a cool nod. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mainly for the press, I 7 think it's been suspended in all four precincts for two 8 weeks. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are you -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: To expire exactly when? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: At noon two weeks 13 from today. 14 MS. SOVIL: No, tomorrow. Noon tomorrow. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Noon tomorrow. 16 MS. SOVIL: Two weeks from -- which would be 17 the 23rd. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Noon tomorrow. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Noon on the 23rd. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The reason we said 21 noon was -- remember, we were talking about we're taking 22 back this notification about it, and it gives Ms. Sovil or 23 whomever an opportunity to get that information in and put 24 it out on the tape, so noon makes a better time frame than 25 7 a.m. 3-8-04 87 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And to do it the day 2 after we meet, as opposed to the day we meet. Okay. 3 MS. SOVIL: Noon on the 23rd, it goes back 4 into effect unless you extend it again. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct. Did we vote? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: No. All in favor of the 7 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 8 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 10 (No response.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I thought we voted. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We voted twice, and 14 it came out the same way both times. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're getting good at 16 it. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Letz made the 18 inquiry, and -- better to have two than none at all. Okay. 19 Next item on the agenda, consider and discuss with the 20 County Attorney whether Commissioners Court has authority 21 over the pending health insurance claim as a civil matter. 22 Commissioner Letz. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I put this back on the 24 agenda 'cause I was confused after the last meeting and 25 my -- the discussion we had with the County Attorney. You 3-8-04 88 1 know, and by looking at the Attorney General's opinions and 2 some information that was provided from the Attorney 3 General's office, you know, to me, this issue is a 4 Commissioners Court issue, not a County Attorney issue. And 5 the issue, I mean, really -- and I have prefaced this by 6 saying that this has nothing to do with what we're doing; 7 it's just a matter of -- from a county government 8 standpoint, as to who is in control of it, who has 9 authority, and I think that is important. And by my reading 10 of it, this is clearly a matter that is under the 11 jurisdiction of the Commissioners Court as a civil matter. 12 I put in the copies or excerpts of the Attorney General 13 Opinion C-256, Attorney General Opinion GA-153, and excerpts 14 of what's been referred to me as Brooks' Treatise, county 15 and special district law, which I presume is some sort of a 16 book that comes out that interprets state law. That -- the 17 pages I got that are attached came from the Attorney 18 General's office. So, I mean, that's just -- you know, I 19 put it on there because I think this is an important 20 long-term issue as to who has the responsibility for civil 21 matters in this county. That's why I put it on the agenda, 22 and I'll make a motion that -- to reaffirm that the pending 23 health insurance claim is a civil matter, is under the 24 authority of the Commissioners Court. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll second it. 3-8-04 89 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that 2 the pending health insurance claim is under the authority of 3 the Commissioners Court. Commissioner, you indicated that 4 this item had nothing to do with what we are doing, but had 5 long-term implications. I'm not sure I understand what you 6 mean by that. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I don't see that -- 8 or, you know, the Court -- as a civil matter, the Court has 9 a -- you know, uses the County Attorney, and we've asked him 10 to hire -- or authorized him to hire outside counsel, which 11 he's done -- I believe he's done; I'm not sure. And I'm not 12 changing any of that. But I think it's a -- the distinction 13 is -- is that this is, you know, our jurisdiction and 14 responsibility, not the statutory authority of the County 15 Attorney's office. And I think that's an important 16 distinction as to down the road. And it may or may not be 17 an important distinction. I don't know if it will affect 18 this particular issue, but I think that there is an issue 19 over -- say we got into some kind of a -- you know, other 20 civil dispute over a traffic accident in a Road and Bridge 21 vehicle or something like that, which is one that 22 specifically says is our jurisdiction, on damage done, you 23 know. And I think that this is a clear question of -- you 24 know, of kind of interpretation of state law as to who has 25 authority over civil matters, such as the health insurance 3-8-04 90 1 claim. And by the -- you know, I believe the Attorney 2 General's opinions that I submitted and the excerpt from 3 those provided me from the Attorney General's office, I 4 think it's clear. And I think the route is that if the 5 County Attorney -- and the reason I've phrased the motion is 6 that if the County Attorney thinks that I'm wrong, and if we 7 pass this, that the Court is wrong, the correct way to 8 resolve it is for the County Attorney to request an Attorney 9 General's opinion, and I would welcome him to do that if he 10 thinks that. But I think, from talking with the Attorney 11 General's office, this is how we proceed best, is if we pass 12 an order and say we think it's a responsibility of the 13 Commissioners Court. And then, if he disagrees with that 14 court order, then he's the one who can request an Attorney 15 General opinion. And that's, as I understand it, the 16 process from talking with the Attorney General's office. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: It's my understanding that -- 18 that the effect of the motion that you made would specify 19 what is the legality or not of -- of the substance of your 20 motion, that being civil matters generally. Is that what 21 I'm understanding? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think the 23 specific issue that we're talking about is a civil health 24 insurance matter, and I think that the -- you know, the next 25 step is pretty much broader than that. But, I mean, I don't 3-8-04 91 1 want to -- I don't see the point in coming up with some 2 scenario that's not a factual scenario, that we're dealing 3 with right now. It's like a what-if. I don't care about 4 the what-if, really, but I do care about a specific issue 5 that there seems to be a question as to who has the 6 jurisdiction over it, and by my reading of the opinions I 7 cited, I think that it's the Commissioners Court. 8 MR. MOTLEY: Can I ask you a question? What 9 do you mean by "jurisdiction"? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess who's 11 responsible. 12 MR. MOTLEY: The Commissioners Court, I 13 think, has always been responsible on the issue. Are you 14 talking about jurisdiction of who represents the County, 15 or -- or what? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It could be. I don't 17 think -- I mean, I'm not advocating -- I think that's a 18 different issue. I think if the Commissioners Court 19 decides -- if they don't want to use the County Attorney as 20 our civil representative on this, I think that would -- you 21 know, it's possible. I'm not advocating that. I don't see 22 any reason to do that. I'm just saying as to who has -- you 23 know, who is the party that is -- has jurisdiction, has 24 responsibility, has authority; I don't know what the proper 25 legal term would be. But by, you know, the opinions that I 3-8-04 92 1 read, civil issues of this nature seem to come under the 2 Commissioners Court responsibility. 3 MR. MOTLEY: Those two opinions -- those two 4 opinions you read said that -- that the Commissioners Court 5 could hire outside counsel on certain issues. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sure. 7 MR. MOTLEY: Is what they said. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And they also said that 9 the -- that there was -- the County Attorney is not 10 responsible for civil matters. And then you -- and, 11 certainly, they -- you know, we have the ability to make the 12 agreement with you or any county attorney in our 13 jurisdiction to represent us in civil matters, and that's 14 what we have done and are doing right now. But it -- yeah, 15 just leave it at that. I mean, you are the choice of this 16 Court to use on our civil matters, as long as you're willing 17 to do it, and at the moment, I think you are willing to do 18 it. But I think that it's -- clearly, it's as to whether -- 19 it's who has responsibility for it. That's all I think my 20 motion says. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let me have a shot 22 at the definition to make sure I understand what we're 23 doing. Whether we're plaintiff or defendant, your motion is 24 saying that we have the authority to decide how we're going 25 to be represented. We can go outside and hire an attorney 3-8-04 93 1 as an action of the Court, or we can ask the County Attorney 2 to represent us. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In civil matters. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: In civil matters, yes, 5 that is correct. And from the reading of the language, the 6 -- our civil attorney can charge us if we -- I mean, it's an 7 agreement. It's just like -- we would hire him like we 8 would hire outside counsel. He has not chosen to, and the 9 agreement is that the staffing -- well, we don't need to go 10 over all these issues. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Do you agree with 12 that definition, Mr. Motley? 13 MR. MOTLEY: Well, I'm -- I'm not real sure 14 that -- that I understand the impact of what is 15 contemplated. If that means we have to go on a case-by-case 16 basis and decide what the situation is -- or are we just 17 assuming kind of a status-quo unless something else comes up 18 or what? I'm not sure how that affects us. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the -- you know, 20 I guess the potential impact would be that if the Court 21 decides they do not like your handling on this particular 22 matter or on some other matter, we can say no, we're going 23 to switch to outside counsel. That's what the impact is. 24 It's our decision as to who handles it for us. And that's 25 all this says. 3-8-04 94 1 MR. MOTLEY: Let me also tell you there's a 2 substantial line of authority that says that the outside 3 counsel hired by the County does have to function through 4 the County Attorney. The County Attorney acts sort of as a 5 gatekeeper of information and regulates outside counsel. 6 There's a lot of cases to that effect that are still law, so 7 I'd just remind you of that. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a good thing. 9 I like that. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not -- I mean, I'm 11 not -- this is not intended to be an adversarial agenda 12 item. I mean, I'm just trying to, you know, clearly say who 13 has responsibility for this, because I think it got very 14 clouded in some of our previous meetings that were maybe not 15 as calm. That's all I'm saying. 16 MR. MOTLEY: I don't know if I answered 17 Commissioner Nicholson's question or not. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: You're stating as a legal 20 conclusion -- your motion states as a legal conclusion that 21 this Court generally, in all things dealing -- of a civil 22 nature, has authority over who handles those matters. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, by my -- I think 24 that's something that I'm trying to clarify. I think my 25 motion is more specific than that. And I think that -- and 3-8-04 95 1 the reason I was specific is that there -- from my reading, 2 there are a number of almost county-specific statutes, 3 evidently, where the County Attorney does have specific 4 civil authority. And I'm -- you know, I have not researched 5 all those, and I presume that the County Attorney would, you 6 know, let us know and provide us that documentation if this 7 county, you know, has something on the statute that says 8 health insurance matters are handled by the County Attorney. 9 I mean, I don't think that -- it doesn't make logical sense 10 that there is that, but this is clearly -- as an example, in 11 my reading, I believe it's Waller County, there is evidently 12 a statute that the County Attorney represents the Court on 13 civil matters, period. And, you know, so I think there are 14 times when they do, and the statutes have been modified 15 accordingly. I'm not aware of any under this county; that's 16 why I was specific in this instance, because there may be 17 some instances where the County Attorney, by statute, is 18 required to represent the Commissioners Court. I don't 19 know. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay, I'm going to 21 try one more time, just a little different twist, 22 Mr. Motley. In a civil matter, whether or not we're 23 plaintiff or defendant, can you think -- and we decided to 24 hire an outside attorney to represent us, can you think of 25 any instances where you would object to that? 3-8-04 96 1 MR. MOTLEY: I wouldn't want to preclude my 2 being able to object to it. Because the leading cases -- 3 I'm not talking about A.G. opinions. A.G. opinions are law 4 until there's a case on the matter, and the leading case on 5 it did not address whether or not the criminal District 6 Attorney of Galveston County objected to the arrangement of 7 outside counsel or not. He did not object. They said that 8 they did not know what the opinion of the Court would be had 9 this man, Mr. Waureno, objected, and that's the leading case 10 on it. So, an A.G. opinion has limited authority if there 11 is a case on the matter, and there are cases on the matter. 12 So I can not -- I don't want to preclude myself from 13 objecting, because there may be some things that I'm more 14 able to -- you know, more able to handle than outside 15 counsel, or there may be things that I can handle at a 16 greater cost savings than having outside counsel. So, my 17 fees are the same. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, if I understand 19 the sense of the motion correctly -- I'm sorry. Are you 20 finished, Dave? It seems to me to be summed up rather 21 succinctly in a quote from the Supreme Court's case in 1923, 22 in which it said, among other things, "We think there can be 23 no doubt that a commissioners court, under its authority to 24 control and manage the finances and business affairs of the 25 county, has power and authority to employ attorneys to 3-8-04 97 1 assist the regularly constituted officers of the county in 2 the prosecution of its claims and suits." Then, "It would 3 necessarily follow that it would be authorized to pay for 4 such services out of the county funds." That comes from 5 Adams vs. Seagler in a 1923 Supreme Court ruling. 6 MR. MOTLEY: I think there's some language 7 omitted from that. It depends on the -- whether or not 8 there's specific grant of authority for the County Attorney 9 to handle certain issues, number one, and number two, if 10 the -- well, I know it depends on whether the County 11 Attorney has a specific legal authority to handle that 12 issue. That's the primary concern, because there could be 13 plenty of times where outsourcing the legal services would 14 be usurping the County Attorney's specific authority. And I 15 don't think that's addressed in that case. I don't think 16 it's just blanket authority to do that. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I agree with what the 18 County Attorney is saying right now. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Then the motion would 20 constitute a judgment or opinion of the Court as to the 21 legal status of this Court relative to civil matters. 22 That's what I'm hearing. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The motion is to a 24 specific one related to the health insurance claim. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay, only as to that 3-8-04 98 1 one, but otherwise it constitutes a judgment or opinion of 2 the Court with respect to that particular civil matter. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any further questions 5 or discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion, 6 signify by raising your right hand. 7 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 9 (No response.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I just want to 12 comment -- make one more comment on it. I want to be clear 13 that -- that my vote in favor of this motion is limited to 14 whether or not we have the authority. It's not on 15 procedures, methods, or anything else. It's authority only. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: I think the Commissioner, when 18 he offered his motion, said it didn't have any -- had 19 nothing to do with what was actually being done in the case. 20 That was excluded; didn't want to change that. Is that -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's right. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just says who handles it. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Next item is Number 10, 25 consider and discuss if the County Attorney represents the 3-8-04 99 1 Commissioners and County Judge in civil and criminal matters 2 related to the health insurance claim. There's obviously a 3 different shade here, but maybe I missed it. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, this -- I put this 5 on the agenda because a question came up in my mind, reading 6 all the other information, about the civil matters. And the 7 question is -- that I have is that -- and this is in light 8 of, you know, a memo that was written by the County Attorney 9 and other comments that have been made about potential 10 unlawful acts or something along those lines. The -- what I 11 have read says if the County Attorney is obligated or 12 responsible, whatever, for I guess giving opinions and 13 advice to all elected officials, including Commissioners, 14 he's kind of our -- on the criminal side, he's there as our 15 attorney. 16 MR. MOTLEY: Written. Written responses. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. And my question 18 is, but it also says -- and I guess -- I presume -- well, I 19 don't know why they did this, but there are several 20 things -- amendments that have taken place in the 70's, as 21 recently as '99, that said, however, Commissioners and other 22 elected officials can hire outside counsel if they so 23 choose. And my question is, are you going to -- do you take 24 the position that you're going to represent -- if there's 25 something that was unlawfully done by a prior Court, and 3-8-04 100 1 some members of the Court that are currently here, are you 2 going to represent us, or do you want us to go out and 3 handle -- hire outside counsel? That's my question. It's 4 really not a -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Am I hearing that -- that you 6 have a concern that there may be some action brought against 7 you in which you personally are a party? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't have a concern, 9 'cause I don't think there is, but I have a memo and some 10 comments that have been made by the County Attorney and 11 others that they think that something was done unlawfully. 12 And I want to know if -- you know, if that developed, and we 13 did -- I will make a note also that this -- by court order 14 at our last meeting, we asked the County Attorney to forward 15 this to the District Attorney for a criminal investigation. 16 I do not know if that has or hasn't taken place, but if the 17 situation arises where, you know, someone thinks -- or the 18 County Attorney thinks or someone thinks that something was 19 done unlawfully, I want to know who's going to represent me. 20 And I think Commissioner Baldwin had a similar comment early 21 on. Is it the County Attorney? Or does the County Attorney 22 want this Court or members of the Court to hire outside 23 counsel? That's my question. And maybe you don't know the 24 answer. But, I mean, it's an issue that concerned me when I 25 was reading through the -- the opinions that I read. 3-8-04 101 1 MR. MOTLEY: Talking, again, about civil 2 representation or criminal? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is criminal that -- 4 MR. MOTLEY: Criminal representation. You 5 know, to be honest with you, that is so -- that is strictly 6 a case-by-case analysis. It would have to be. The County, 7 through the County Attorney's office or through expenditure 8 of county funds to outside counsel, can provide criminal 9 counsel -- criminal representation to county officers, 10 depending -- depending on what has been done. It depends on 11 if there's a conflict of interest, number one. If a person, 12 and like myself, would have a conflict of interest, I'd have 13 to look at that and see if there would need to be an outside 14 attorney. It depends on the mental intent with which the 15 act was done by the particular county officer. If somebody 16 intentionally did something, for example, outside their 17 duties -- you know, outside their duties, they did something 18 illegal that was clearly outside their duties, then the 19 County could not spend money to defend that person, if 20 something was done intentionally. So, I think you really 21 have to say that that is to be determined on a case-by-case 22 basis as far as criminal representation. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, your recommendation 24 is that -- that we do nothing -- or members of the Court do 25 nothing and just rely on you for representation at the 3-8-04 102 1 present time, as you would any elected official, and that 2 you will advise if you think we need to go a different 3 direction? 4 MR. MOTLEY: Well, I'm just not aware of any 5 criminal charges that have been brought. I mean, I -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I hope not. 7 MR. MOTLEY: -- I'm not aware of anything 8 like that. And that was never -- as I've explained to the 9 Court, I know, several times, my intention on asking for the 10 Court's authority to hire outside counsel was to explore 11 whether or not the third option should have been presented 12 to us by our third-party administrator, and then to, 13 secondarily, look into where the monies that we advanced to 14 the third-party administrator were spent, what portion of 15 them have been paid back, what bills were paid by the moneys 16 we gave, or what the likelihood, if any, is of recovering 17 further funds. That's what -- that's what this inquiry is 18 about. I mean, there are other issues that may arise at a 19 later time, but, I mean, this is what -- this is truly -- 20 I'm telling y'all the truth; this is what I'm looking into 21 at this point. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, I guess -- I mean, 23 so what your recommendation is, for the time being, you 24 represent us, and if I have a legal question about something 25 related to this, you're the person who's going to give me 3-8-04 103 1 advice? 2 MR. MOTLEY: You're talking about from a -- 3 from a criminal standpoint? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess, yes. Or civil. 5 Really, I don't know that it's a distinction here, if it's 6 -- you know, but anyway -- 7 MR. MOTLEY: Well, there's a distinction. 8 But, yeah, I would say you could certainly -- I would 9 welcome a question. If I'm unable for some reason to answer 10 it, I would give you a reason why not. I would be able to 11 tell you that there's a conflict or this or that or the 12 other. I hope I'll be able to tell you what -- I don't want 13 to leave you out there hanging out. I mean, that's not my 14 purpose at all. If something like that were to happen, I 15 would try to give you timely and sound advice. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. That's -- that 17 answers -- that was my question. Thank you. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything further on that 19 particular agenda item? Hearing none, we'll move forward. 20 Number 11, consider, discuss and take appropriate action on 21 revisions to the job description for the coordinator of the 22 administrative services for the County Judge and 23 Commissioners Court. Commissioner Williams? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Judge. I 25 put this on because I suspected that there might be another 3-8-04 104 1 agenda item, which you have placed right behind this one, 2 which was as to how we might proceed advertising and 3 soliciting for applicants for the position, which is 4 currently called, I believe, the court -- the court 5 administrator -- coordinator/administrator. So, what I did 6 was I took a look at the existing job description that was 7 fashioned by the Nash people back in the year 2000, and in 8 my mind it was ambiguous and not clear and not concise, and 9 so I took the liberty of drafting another which I have 10 entitled -- what did I entitle that, Buster? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Draft. Draft, draft, 12 draft, draft. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Draft, draft, draft. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Stuttering a little 15 bit. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I entitled that one 17 Kerr County Commissioners Court Coordinator of 18 Administrative Services. And in that one, I listed some 19 dozen or more items which, from my five-plus years 20 observation of that position, I seem to detail what is 21 expected of the position holding -- a person holding that 22 position. So, I put it before the Court; let the Court take 23 a look at it. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have two comments, 25 Bill. Number one, we better get the correct title -- her 3-8-04 105 1 correct -- his or her correct title, Bill. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think you're right. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And I think that is 4 Court Coordinator. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If that's what the 6 Court wants. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: For the -- well, I 8 mean, you know, for the pay scale and all of that, it's got 9 to fit in there somewhere. And so -- I mean, whatever -- 10 but I wanted to also add this burn ban information as well. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Put burn ban down. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: To update the 792-HEAT 13 number and notify police departments, and don't forget to 14 call Rusty. Whatever you do, don't forget to call him. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For today's 16 discussion, would "burn ban responsibility" suffice? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That would be 18 fantastic. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that it, Commissioner? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what I had. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The only other comment I 23 had, and this comes out of -- I believe it was Mr -- what's 24 the name, Pope? -- comments this morning. Ideally, it would 25 be very nice if this person could update the web site from 3-8-04 106 1 the Commissioners Court's web -- or portion of the web site. 2 And I -- and I think that most -- or not most; many people 3 that may be able to have that capability or learn that 4 capability, and I think it would be a way for us to get 5 information out to the public on a much more timely basis 6 than the current process. And I don't think it's all that 7 hard to do once you just learn how to do it, 'cause there's 8 lots of people that have web sites and get the information 9 up to it. But, anyway, I'd just like to add that as a -- 10 and I don't know if it's a -- a computer knowledge or a web 11 site knowledge. We want to put it in here in general terms, 12 but I think that would be something too that we would like 13 to see. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't disagree. 15 Let's ask Tommy what he thinks is involved in being a web 16 master upgrading the web site. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Updating or 18 upgrading? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I guess it's a 20 current update, yeah. Is that a lot of work? Not so much 21 work? Could be a little bit of work? No work at all? 22 MR. TOMLINSON: I think it could be very 23 time-consuming, depending on how detailed you -- you know, 24 you get your web site. I mean, for instance, you know, 25 the -- the updating of -- of the court orders or the -- or 3-8-04 107 1 the agenda on -- on the web site, if you -- if you try to 2 key in key words or if you -- if you have key words that are 3 highlighted within the body or within the -- within the 4 index that -- that relate to a subject within the body of 5 the -- of the minutes, then those kinds of things are fairly 6 tedious. And so, again, I think it just -- it really 7 depends on how detailed, you know, your web site -- you want 8 your web site to be. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Who does it now, 10 Tommy? 11 MR. TOMLINSON: Shaun is doing it now. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you believe he's 13 on top of it? Behind the curve, or -- 14 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't know. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, if we're given 16 to believe -- and I have no reason to doubt what the 17 gentleman told us this morning. He sort of indicated that 18 we're not up to date. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: That could be. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, my idea would be 21 that -- I think Tommy's correct, that the more detailed and 22 fancier you get, it can take a lot of time. But I think the 23 burn ban information could be updated pretty quickly on it. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think our agendas could 3-8-04 108 1 be posted with no searches, and I think our minutes may be 2 able to be put up on there, just as a -- a blanket document. 3 If someone wants to -- it may be tedious for them to go 4 through it, but at least it would be available for them to 5 go through it. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I was going to 7 balk on the minutes deal because of the time frame. 8 Sometimes she has several meetings to get out at the same 9 time, and it doesn't come out -- we don't get our -- our 10 minutes on the same schedule every time. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's true. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And once you commit to 13 putting the minutes on the web site and it doesn't pop up 14 there that very day, then we're going to get hung by 15 somebody. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You might have a point. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't think we can make a 18 commitment of when they're going to be there. She's got a 19 lot of responsibilities -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Put them up, then. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: -- doing her reporting duties. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm trying to avoid a 23 fight, but if y'all would rather fight, put it up there. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think as they 25 become available, it's a matter of just putting them on. 3-8-04 109 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Either way, I just 2 think -- and minutes are -- I don't know. They're -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Voluminous. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're long. They're 5 difficult to go through on a computer for me, unless I 6 really know exactly where I'm looking. But, you know, it is 7 information that, if the public would like to have it, I 8 don't see any reason why we shouldn't make them available 9 when they're available. I just think that, you know, some 10 web site work could be -- we could get that work away from 11 Shaun, who has a whole lot to do, and get it into the -- you 12 know -- 13 MR. TOMLINSON: That would be great. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- administrative 15 offices. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I've added two more 17 bullets, burn ban responsibilities and update web site as 18 required. And I wanted to make a note about number 7, 19 Judge, where it puts, "Schedules and prioritizes County 20 Judge juvenile and probate court dockets." I think a comma 21 there, "if requested" or "if required," because you may or 22 may not want that done. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: You may also want to add the 24 mental health docket. That's -- 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. And mental 3-8-04 110 1 health, okay. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: As requested. Right? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: As required. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: As required, okay. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Would you leave the 7 qualifications -- 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I didn't touch those. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I noticed the rest of 10 them, you leave them pretty much as they are. You just 11 changed the first portion. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. I did not 13 get into a rework of the qualifications. If you think it's 14 necessary, I can do that. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, I really don't. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the reason I 17 didn't do it. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Anybody else have any 19 comments? 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah, I do. I think 21 this is a better document than the other one, and I thank 22 Commissioner Williams for having done it. That's one 23 comment. Another comment, I'm not a big fan of job 24 descriptions. I've found that they tend to limit activity 25 and accomplishment rather than encourage it, but this is a 3-8-04 111 1 good one, if we have to have a job description. Third 2 comment is, I think probably going back a long time, 20 3 years or so, the issues about this job where there's been 4 difficulties seem to have more to do with not what is 5 assigned to the job, but how members of the Commissioners 6 Court work with that individual, so I want to pay a lot of 7 attention to that going forward as much as what the 8 responsibilities of the job are. And then just one other 9 thing I would like to add. Probably, Commissioner, on 10 Bullet Number 8, "Assist individual commissioners in 11 document preparation," et cetera, I'd like to add 12 "research." The current court coordinator has been very 13 helpful to me in finding information and -- and conducting 14 searches and things like that. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Researching 16 background or related information? 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'd just say 18 research. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Research, comma, document 20 preparation, et cetera. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's all. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Anybody else have anything on 25 that? Was there an intent to bring a new person on the 3-8-04 112 1 payroll to help me? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Help you? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm getting a bunch of blank 4 stares here. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Help you do what? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Help me prepare 7 correspondence, reports, studies, forms, and documents. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure. One, two, 9 three, four, five -- Bullet Number 5, prepares 10 correspondence, backup material, et cetera, for all members 11 of Commissioners Court. Would that do it? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: No, I don't think so. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't think so. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Put your pen to work, 16 then. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: We can pull the third item off 18 the bottom of Page 1. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pull the third item 20 off the bottom of Page 1. "Prepares correspondence, 21 reports, studies, forms and documents as directed by the 22 County Judge"? 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: My -- when I was 24 working off of the job description, the only note I made on 25 the current job description was the -- that it's not 3-8-04 113 1 prepares those things for the County Judge, but prepares 2 those things for members of the Court. I don't see that the 3 court coordinator has a different relationship to the County 4 Judge than -- than to any other member of the Court. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Are you going to add me -- 6 where you were going to assist the individual Commissioners, 7 are you going to allow me to come in there? 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah, change to 9 members of the Court. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- actually, I 11 think that the Judge is correct; we need to have a special 12 one for him, because he represents -- I mean, the court 13 coordinator -- the Commissioners Court is different than his 14 judicial responsibilities. And I think that it's -- that's 15 how I see it. I mean, I think there's -- he can request 16 something as he's sitting here today and in this position, 17 or he can request something when he's doing a probate 18 hearing and he's not on the Commissioners Court, when he's 19 obviously serving as Judge during probate hearings. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let me see if we can 21 facilitate a middle ground here. What if we took the item 22 the Judge is referring to, the Number 3 at the bottom -- the 23 third from the bottom, and substituted that in for -- one, 24 two, three, four -- fifth bullet, and added in addition to 25 the County Judge, "directed by the County Judge and members 3-8-04 114 1 of Commissioners Court." Would that suffice? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My preference would be to 3 put it -- I'd take that whole third from the bottom as a 4 separate bullet, even though they seem redundant. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're talking about 6 substituting it for Number 5, and just adding Judge and 7 Commissioners -- members of Commissioners Court? Your 8 point's well-taken. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, that -- that deals 10 primarily with the agenda and matters related to the agenda, 11 the first one. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I said substitute it, 13 Judge. Or if you want to add it, we can add it. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's easier just 15 to add that. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We'll add it. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To add a new bullet. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And then also 19 indicate, as Commissioner Nicholson said, not only by the 20 Judge, but by members of Commissioners Court. County Judge 21 and members of the Court -- and Commissioners. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Maybe I've missed what you 23 just said, Commissioner. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Take your last -- 25 third one, that one that you want included. 3-8-04 115 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And just add, "as 3 directed by the County Judge and Commissioners," and then 4 add it to the whole over here. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Well, if you're going 6 to do that, then why not go to that middle bullet, "Assists 7 individual commissioners," and add in there, "and County 8 Judge in research, document preparation," so forth? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Maybe that's the one 10 I had to begin with, thinking about that. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: But you've got some 12 correspondence and reports and forms that -- that I get 13 involved in that oftentimes you gentlemen don't get involved 14 in. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm sure. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: And I don't -- I don't have a 17 problem with encompassing it in both of those, but I just 18 don't want to be left out, which is where I was. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I don't want to 20 leave you out, Judge. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm not going to let you. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Any other ideas? 23 I'll revise it, put it back on for adoption. Let's go back 24 to the point that Commissioner Baldwin raised at the 25 beginning. The current title of the job is Court 3-8-04 116 1 Coordinator for Kerr County Commissioners Court; is that 2 correct? And I -- I made a suggestion that that be changed 3 to Coordinator of Administrative Services. Whatever your 4 pleasure is, that's what we'll do. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Titles are cheap; 6 they don't cost anything. Whichever one is -- is viewed as 7 the best title will be -- be what I'd like. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I understand 9 that there's a pay group of court coordinators in the county 10 system, and Thea being one of those people, and they're in a 11 certain pay group. And why would you want to change that? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I just -- let me ask 13 Barbara. I understand where you're coming from. If -- if 14 the job title of this position were amended to say "Kerr 15 County Commissioners Court Coordinator of Administrative 16 Services," and our intention was for it to fit in the pay 17 group of other court coordinators, would it? Could it? 18 Should it? 19 MS. NEMEC: It could. It's whatever you make 20 it. It's whatever you -- wherever you put that position, as 21 long as that's the only title and it has a certain step and 22 grade. And, I mean, as long -- if you have more than one 23 title that's the same, as long as the step and grades are 24 the same. So, you could -- you could put "Court 25 Coordinator/Administrative Assistant" and start them at the 3-8-04 117 1 step and grade that the court coordinators in other 2 departments are. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let me ask Ms. Sovil 4 two questions. Which of those two titles is more 5 descriptive, in your opinion? And, two, what's this job 6 called in other counties? 7 MS. SOVIL: Well, it's according to which 8 county you go to. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No standard 10 practice? 11 MS. SOVIL: Administrative Assistant is the 12 -- is the biggest. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: I generally refer to it as 14 Court Coordinator/Administrative Assistant. Kind of a dual 15 title, because I think that's more descriptive of all of the 16 hats that she wears. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I like that one. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But if you -- if we 20 start making bumper stickers, I mean, can you imagine how 21 big that thing's going to be? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Need a big car. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Have to get a truck -- 24 to drive a truck. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Put it across the 3-8-04 118 1 tailgate of your truck. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No difference to me. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I do have a comment. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Commissioner Williams 7 stated that we'll bring it back next time. In lieu of the 8 next agenda item, I don't think we have that luxury. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, tune it up. 10 We'll tune it up. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If you want to 13 approve it as amended, we'll do that. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would move to approve 15 it and ask you to make the modifications we talked about, 16 and then get it going. We can always change it later. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I second the motion. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second -- third. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 20 the approval of the -- of the job description of the Kerr 21 County Commissioners Court Coordinator/Administrative 22 Assistant -- is that what we settled on? -- as amended here 23 in open court. Any further questions or discussion? All in 24 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 3-8-04 119 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll go to the next agenda 4 item, consider and discuss advertisement and solicitation 5 for applicants for the position of Commissioners Court 6 Coordinator/Administrative Assistant. See how that worked 7 right in there, Buster? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You got it, Judge, 9 right there. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What are we moving? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: We need a closing date on 13 the -- on the applications that we're going to have to post 14 and advertise, I would think. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would say -- how about 16 the Friday before the next meeting? Is that enough time, 17 Barbara? 18 MS. NEMEC: The Friday before? What -- is 19 this going out in the paper or what? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, I think we need to. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, I think the local 22 paper, post it. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: And advertised in the local 24 paper. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would have been 3-8-04 120 1 my question. We are going to post it before we close within 2 the system? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, absolutely, yes. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would say the -- what's 6 our next court date? 7 MS. NEMEC: We're already getting some, so -- 8 so I think that would be plenty of time. 9 MS. SOVIL: 22nd is the next meeting. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, to the 20th? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: 19th. 12 MS. SOVIL: 19th is a Friday. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 19th. So, how about noon 14 on Friday, the 19th? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Pretty short. 16 MS. NEMEC: That would give them all this 17 week and next week. So we'd have this week to get it in the 18 paper, and then next week for them to be brought back. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That will work. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Spread the word, we're going 21 to buy an ad anyway, okay? All right. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That way we could have it 23 as an agenda item or a workshop item at our next meeting to 24 at least review them and figure how -- where we're going to 25 go from there. 3-8-04 121 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'd add that I would 2 value applicants that have some knowledge of how county 3 government works, so I would encourage anybody on the inside 4 of county government that would be thinking about putting 5 their name in the hat to do so. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I suspect there are 7 some out there who will do that. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Do I hear a motion to 9 that effect? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to 13 advertise and solicit applicants for the position of 14 Commissioners Court Coordinator-slash-Administrative 15 Assistant by public posting and public advertisement in the 16 local newspaper, with the closing date for applications of 17 noon, March the 19th, applications to be returned to -- 18 Commissioners Court? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's fine. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 21 discussion? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would say -- why 23 doesn't the -- whatever your title is -- distribute them to 24 each of us as they come in? That way we can be looking at 25 them. 3-8-04 122 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Good plan. 2 MS. SOVIL: You want it circulated or copied? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Copied. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 5 discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion, 6 signify by raising your right hand. 7 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 9 (No response.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Gentlemen, what's your 11 pleasure? Keep plowing forward? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Next item, consider and 15 discuss resolution requesting that Texas Department of 16 Transportation declare certain portions of unused 17 right-of-way on old State Highway 39 as surplus, and that 18 these portions be removed from the state highway system. 19 Now, the net effect of which is they'll come back on the 20 County ownership. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Judge, I've got 22 several questions on this, and I'm not sure there's anybody 23 here that can answer them, but I'll try. Maybe you can. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Don't bet on that. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Looking at the map, 3-8-04 123 1 I want to assume that this road runs behind that Little 2 League baseball field? Buster's nodding his head yes. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: My questions are 5 four. Is the road used for any purpose? Are there any 6 benefits to the County to make this transfer? Is there any 7 liability to the County to do that? And why is the transfer 8 needed? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We did a portion of 10 this same road. This road used -- the old -- the old 11 highway used to go out to, like, where 39 is and just cross 12 over, and then there's a little bridge that crosses the 13 river there. You know, when you're crossing the big bridge, 14 you can see the small bridge down there, and we did this 15 same thing on that I don't know how many years ago, but 16 before today. And this is just another part of that, a 17 get-it-off-the-book thing. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, you don't see 19 any -- anything to be concerned about? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, I don't. I don't 21 at all. The Little League has a -- has an entrance from the 22 other end, and the rest of this stuff, the Point Theatre and 23 that facility. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I move to accept the 25 resolution requesting the Texas Department of Transportation 3-8-04 124 1 to declare certain portions of unused right-of-way on old 2 State Highway 39 as surplus, that these portions be removed 3 from the state highway system, and authorize the County 4 Judge to sign same. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded in 7 favor of the agenda item. Any further questions or 8 comments? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The resolution 10 indicates not only the Judge, but Commissioners sign it, and 11 my question is, how many -- where'd we get those other two 12 Commissioners? They're showing lines for six commissioners. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Tomorrow's election 14 day. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh. We may have two 16 more, okay. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's not get carried 18 away here. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Do I understand the motion's 20 to be amended to include signature by all Commissioners? 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes, sir. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Any further 23 question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify 24 by raising your right hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 3-8-04 125 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Next item 4 on the agenda is consider and discuss proclamation for 5 National Day of Prayer on May 6, 2004, authorize County 6 Judge to sign the same. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded in 10 favor of the agenda item. Any further questions or 11 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 12 your right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. I will now 17 move to executive session items. I suspect we need to go 18 into executive session, at least momentarily. So, at this 19 time, it's 12:14, and we will go out of open session. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are we going to come 21 back into open session after the executive session? Are we 22 going to conduct some business of some sort? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, we have bills 24 and -- 25 MS. SOVIL: We haven't paid bills or reports 3-8-04 126 1 or anything. 2 (Discussion off the record.) 3 (The open session was closed at 12:14 p.m., and an Executive Session was held, the 4 transcript of which is contained in a separate document.) 5 - - - - - - - - - - 6 JUDGE TINLEY: It's 12:32. We will now 7 reconvene in open session. Is there any -- anything to be 8 offered in connection with what was discussed in executive 9 session? Hearing none, we'll move forward. Approval 10 agenda. First item up is the bills. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move we pay the 12 bills. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to 16 pay the bills. Any question or discussion? All in favor of 17 the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 18 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Next item, 22 budget amendments. Budget Amendment Request Number 1. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: Budget Amendment Number 1 is 24 a request from the District Clerk to transfer $2,000 from 25 Old Records Preservation account to Microfilm Expense. 3-8-04 127 1 We've set up a new account for that purpose in this Records 2 Management and Preservation fund. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 6 approval of Budget Amendment Request Number 1. Any further 7 question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify 8 by raising your right hand. 9 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Do we have 13 any late bills? 14 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I have before me the 16 transcripts and minutes from the regular session of the Kerr 17 County Commissioners Court of Monday, February 9th, 2004; 18 the transcript and minutes of the Kerr County Commissioners 19 Court Information Technology Workshop on Monday, February 9; 20 the Kerr County Commissioners Court Emergency Session on 21 Thursday, February 12, 2004; the Kerr County Commissioners 22 Court Special Session on Monday, February 23rd, 2004; and 23 the Kerr County Commissioners Court Workshop on Monday, 24 February the 23rd, 2004. Do I hear a motion to approve 25 these transcripts and minutes as presented? 3-8-04 128 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 4 approval. Any question or discussion? All in favor of the 5 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. I also 10 have before me reports from the Sheriff's Department, 11 Library Advisory Board, Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center 12 report, Precinct 4 Constable, Strategic Planning Report from 13 the Commissioner in Precinct 4, County Clerk report, Justice 14 of the Peace Precinct 3 report, and Constable Precinct 1 15 report, and Constable Precinct 3 report. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I passed out 2, 17 Judge, just a moment ago. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: And Constable Precinct 2 19 report. Do I hear a motion that these reports be approved 20 as presented? 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So moved. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 24 approval of the reports as presented. Any question or 25 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 3-8-04 129 1 your right hand. 2 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 4 (No response.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Next item, 6 do we have any reports from Commissioners generally or in 7 connection with a liaison committee assignment? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just a quick -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: None here, sir. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just a quickie, 11 Judge. The Regional Emergency Preparedness Advisory 12 Committee, through AACOG, approved grants, one to Kerr 13 County in the amount of $37,878.54, for emergency 14 preparedness, as well as to the City of Kerrville for 15 $39,023.10. And, as the Judge probably knows, another grant 16 to Kerr County for the Kerr County Juvenile Facility, 17 Juvenile Behavior Transition Program, in the amount of 18 $35,850. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This emergency 20 management, is that -- that's outside of this truck or 21 trailer? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In addition to the 23 truck, yeah. And bids, I think, have been let for those 24 trucks and trailers and so forth. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? 3-8-04 130 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, sir. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner 3? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't believe I have 4 anything today. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Four? 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: In your package is a 7 recap of what -- I tried to reassimilate the product of our 8 strategic planning meeting, and I did that for purposes of 9 trying to move it along, and to do that in a way that's 10 consistent with -- with the Open Meetings Act. It proposes, 11 oh, about a four-step process. It would be an annual cycle; 12 that every February, we spend a half a day or so revisiting 13 our previous established strategies and decide if they're 14 still appropriate, or if we need to add to or subtract from 15 them. Sometime along about now, that we -- that we firm up 16 the projects that we need to -- need to have to accomplish 17 the highest priorities, that we work it through the budget 18 process, and then late in the year, we assess our progress 19 and get ready for the next cycle. The work you see that's 20 titled "Draft 2004-05 Project List" is simply merging the 21 two documents. We had one document that said here's the -- 22 here's our priority projects, and we had another document 23 that said next step, so I simply took those two documents 24 and merged them, and I guessed at some potential 25 responsibilities to be the shepherd of those projects. 3-8-04 131 1 Like, the first priority item there was Item Number 15, 2 Airport and Governance, and I think it's kind of obvious 3 that -- at least to me, that Williams and Letz, as the 4 liaison to that group, would take that project on. Other 5 ones, I just sort of guessed at who either brought it up or 6 who was involved at it. What I suggest we do is to give 7 this some thought, and at our next regular Commissioners 8 Court meeting, agree to some assignments, or confirm that 9 these are the priorities we want to work on, or agree to 10 take some of them on, firm it up, get a plan for how we're 11 going to deal with some of these things. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think some of them -- 13 I'm just looking under Priority 1, the second item. It 14 might be helpful to put an A, B, C, D under it, just so we 15 can have Road and Bridge, Information Technology -- 'cause, 16 I mean, I see we may not do them all at one time; that we 17 can keep track of which ones we've done, which ones we 18 haven't. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which item were you 20 looking at? What page? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On Page 2 -- or Page 3, 22 under Priority 1. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second item says review 25 departments. That report, I think we should break out each 3-8-04 132 1 department that reports so we can check them off as we do 2 those. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Being as I'm -- it's a 4 fifty-fifty chance that I will be reelected; there's some 5 question on Letz. But I would be happy to work with someone 6 on that Item 4 there. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, one of them is 8 already on -- was on the agenda today. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're progressing. We're 11 using our strategic planning. But I think it's a good idea 12 to have responsibility so we can each of us know what we're, 13 you know, going to be doing. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. I think your 15 yard sign campaign is going to pull it off for you, both of 16 them. Both of your yard signs. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Both signs. I try not 18 to spend that much money, but I was pushed into it. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Anyway, I'd ask that we 20 mull this around at our next meeting and discuss it. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Put your name down 22 or somebody else's name down, or -- or say I've had buyer's 23 regret and I don't want to do that one; let's cancel that. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Put your name down. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I think part of -- part of it, 3-8-04 133 1 we got pressed for time towards the end, and I think one of 2 the suggestions was that if we could assign even a general 3 responsibility, that it would be helpful in trying to 4 maintain these things on track. And I think that's what -- 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I will put it on the 6 agenda for next meeting and nail down a few of them we want 7 to work on, who's going to be the lead or the point person 8 on them. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything else? I've 10 got a couple of items. I got something recently from 11 G.B.R.A. asking us to support G.B.R.A.'s grant request for 12 funding to T.C.E.Q. The other item is from Texas Department 13 of Agriculture, which I just recently received, which 14 celebrates March 14 through 20 as National Agriculture Week 15 in Texas. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a biggie. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, it is. But, obviously, 18 National Agriculture Week is going to be over by the time we 19 see -- see it on the agenda. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What -- what do they want 21 us to support? G.B.R.A., what do they want to us support at 22 T.C.E.Q.? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Some kind of grant. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. They're -- they have 25 requested a grant. They call it a public education effort, 3-8-04 134 1 clean water and whatnot. I'll let you be the judge of that. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I don't think 3 we have any business supporting anything. Those folks don't 4 belong here, and we don't want them here. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: They like things coming 6 downstream, but they don't send it up, do they? 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Probably just trying 8 to come up here and take over our river. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Cast longing glances 11 at it. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, it's there for whatever 13 consideration you want to give it. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think we just did. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, that's kind of my 16 feeling. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They didn't want us to do 18 something in-kind; that's enough for me. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything further? Being 20 nothing further, I will declare this meeting adjourned. 21 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 12:45 p.m.) 22 - - - - - - - - - - 23 24 25 3-8-04 135 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 5 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 6 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 7 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 12th day of March, 8 2004. 9 10 11 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 12 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 13 Certified Shorthand Reporter 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3-8-04