1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Regular Session 10 Monday, June 14, 2004 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 DAVE NICHOLSON, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X June 14, 2004 2 PAGE --- Commissioners' Comments 5 3 1.1 Consider adopting proposed Hill Country Youth 4 Exhibit Center Reservation Guidelines 10 1.2 Request to transfer funds to pay for emergency 5 replacement of back windshield on marked patrol unit 29 6 1.3 Approve Resolution for Kerr Interfaith Disaster Response (KIDR) 32 7 1.4 Consider merit increase for Chief Deputy Treasurer 35 1.11 Set public hearing for plat revisions under the 8 alternate platting process in Kerr County Subdivision Rule 6.04.G 40 9 1.14 Consider awarding bid for backhoe loader and have Judge sign finance proposal and total machine 10 warranty for same 41 1.5 Open/receive bids for septic tank mitigation in 11 Phase I, Kerrville South Wastewater Project 45 1.17 Consider scheduling Commissioners' Court 2005 12 Budget Workshop 47 1.6 PUBLIC HEARING for Alternate Plat Process for 13 Lot 13 of Riverside Park 53 1.12 Consider changes to 03/04 Floodplain 14 Administrative Budget 54,128 1.15 Plan to address concerns regarding elements of 15 the City of Kerrville's Uniform Development Code that affect development in unincorporated areas of 16 Kerr County and the Kerrville/Kerr County Airport 61 1.7 Revisions to Intergovernmental Agreement relating 17 to Texas Community Development Program and Texas Colonia Construction Fund awards between Kerr 18 County and the Upper Guadalupe River Authority 72 1.8 Request to lower water level in Flat Rock Lake; 19 discuss concerns for public safety and recreational fishing at Flat Rock Lake due to storm debris and 20 sediment buildup in the lake 76 1.9 Consider allowing Constable to apply for & seek 21 grant funding from all sources to acquire mobile video/audio camera system 110 22 1.10 Budget amendment request to transfer funds from Vehicle Insurance to Vehicle Repair & Maintenance 119 23 1.18 Consider reports from insurance consultant on 2004 Stop Loss Health Insurance Policy proposed 24 by Employee Benefit Administrators, take appropriate action or response with respect to 25 such proposed policy 120 3 1 I N D E X (Continued) June 14, 2004 2 PAGE 1.13 Consider approving 10 ft. wide easement across 3 courthouse property from Main to Jefferson Street 125 1.16 Consider final draft of Kerr County Information/ 4 Technology Policies 130 5 4.1 Pay Bills 137 4.2 Budget Amendments 138 6 4.3 Late Bills 143 4.4 Read and Approve Minutes 149 7 4.5 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 149 8 5.1 Reports from Commissioners/Liaison Committee Assignments 150 9 --- Adjourned 158 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 4 1 On Monday, June 14, 2004, at 9 a.m., a regular meeting of 2 the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in the 3 Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville, 4 Texas, and the following proceedings were had in open court: 5 P R O C E E D I N G S 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning. Let me call to 7 order the Commissioners Court meeting scheduled for this 8 date, Monday, June the 14th, 2004, at 9 a.m. Before we get 9 started, I would like to mention to those present that we 10 lost an Assistant County Attorney this past week. Mr. Mike 11 Feary, Assistant County Attorney, died from complications 12 from an illness that he had incurred. So, we'd ask that you 13 keep his family and loved ones in your thoughts and prayers. 14 Commissioner 2, I believe it's your honors this morning. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: My turn? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, sir. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I can't speak 18 with any degree of authority on how other denominations -- 19 how the retired ministers from other denominations -- where 20 they go and what they do, but I can tell you that the hill 21 country -- in particular, Kerr County -- is a haven for 22 retired Lutheran ministers, and we have at Zion Lutheran 23 Church a great group of retired pastors who share with us 24 their -- their life-long careers of wisdom, preaching, and 25 teaching. I've invited one to be with us this morning. I'm 6-14-04 5 1 pleased to introduce to you pastor Jack Lehmann, who will 2 lead our invocation, if you'll please rise, and after that, 3 the pledge of allegiance. Pastor Jack? 4 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Pastor 6 Jack. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. At this time, if 8 there's any member of the public that wishes to be heard on 9 any matter that is not listed as an agenda item, they're 10 privileged to come forward at this time. We'd ask that you 11 give your name for the reporter. If you wish to be heard on 12 a matter that is a listed agenda item, we would prefer that 13 you fill out a participation form. It's at the back of the 14 room. If -- if you fail to do that, but still wish to be 15 heard, by some means or manner, please get my attention and 16 I'll recognize you and allow you to be heard, because this 17 is your business we're conducting. But, at this time, if 18 there's any member of the public that wishes to be heard on 19 a matter not listed on the agenda, feel privileged to come 20 forward at this time. Seeing no one to come forward, 21 Commissioner Williams, what have you got for us this 22 morning? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm going to pass, 24 Judge, until later. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Three? 6-14-04 6 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Actually, I have a couple 2 things this morning. There -- I've talked about both these 3 topics previously, but I think it is worthwhile to -- with 4 what's happened recently, to bring them up again. First, 5 baseball. Those who are baseball fans are aware that 6 it's -- the College World Series starts this week. And this 7 past weekend is the equivalent of the Sweet 16, and I think 8 Kerrville was unbelievably recognized nationally for having 9 three players that played in the super regionals. 10 University of Texas Wednesday, Ryan Russ, my nephew, who 11 went six-for-six in the series, had a walk and was hit by a 12 pitch; he was on base all eight times he came to the plate. 13 Remarkable accomplishment. And Kyle Yates came in to pitch 14 Friday night game, did a great job, did his job, and got all 15 the -- not all the batters faced out, but got all the -- did 16 not give up any runs. And then, at L.S.U., Texas A & M was 17 playing them, and on the Saturday game, Kevin Whelan came in 18 and absolutely shut them down. Pitched one and retired 19 three batters, two strike-outs, and did a great job. And I 20 think all three of those young men received a lot of 21 accolades nationally, 'cause they were nationally televised 22 games, all of them, and they really should be commended. 23 And I really encourage all of the area press to give these 24 young men some recognition for what they've done. And the 25 other individual I'd bring up a little bit -- sad or joyous, 6-14-04 7 1 either way, I'm not sure how you look at it. Very good 2 friend of our families, Michael Stebbins, is in the 3 military, and he is about to leave next Monday for his third 4 tour, going to Iraq, and after he's been twice previously, 5 and Afghanistan. So, I think our prayers need to go to the 6 Stebbins, to Michael Stebbins and his family. That's it. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Got two things, 8 Judge. First, I'd like to introduce to the Court my friend, 9 Eric Ellenwood. Would you raise your hand there? Eric's a 10 Tivy man; he's a senior at Tivy, and he has an interest in 11 government, so he's going to spend the day here with us 12 today and see what good government looks like. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You sure you got the 14 right room? 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Welcome. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Hope we don't scare 17 him away. 18 MR. ELLENWOOD: Mr. Nicholson is in the room, 19 so I'm confident that I'm in the right room. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second thing is, the 21 heavy rains last week caused some fairly significant damage 22 in the western part of the county. The Hunt Crossing bridge 23 is -- is in really bad shape. Some of the foundation washed 24 out. It's one lane there right now. In fact, the state 25 Highway Department has portable signal lights rigged up out 6-14-04 8 1 there, and the joke about that is they -- it finally 2 happened; we've got signal lights in Hunt, Texas. But, 3 anyhow, that's a problem. As you know, there's a lot of 4 traffic, contractors and Mo Ranch employees and all that 5 sort of thing early in the morning, and it was backed up 6 there for a long ways this morning. And with the -- 7 particularly unfortunate that's it's the tourist season; 8 that's causing some problems. There was quite a bit of 9 other damage. It was a strange flood. It rained only 10 3 inches at my house out there near Mo Ranch, and the river 11 rose only about a foot. It rained 10 inches over near Hunt, 12 and the river rose almost to -- to the 100-year floodplain 13 levels. Not as much damage as we've seen in the past, but a 14 lot of washouts and road damage. So -- so our Road and 15 Bridge Department, State Highway Department got a lot of 16 work to do. That's all I've got, Judge. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Commissioner 1? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. I'm going 19 to -- Commissioner Letz stole one of my issues. I wanted to 20 talk about his nephew and playing baseball. I tell you, 21 six-for-six is unheard of. You just don't see that 22 anywhere, at any level, and that kid really -- he's really 23 something else to see. So, Letz stole my issue; I only have 24 one more. The preacher up here talking about -- he declared 25 us the "salt of the earth," and I think that possibly we 6-14-04 9 1 should -- being as we are the salt of the earth, that we 2 should take on some names; like, Judge, you could be salty 3 old -- Salty Old Dog. (Laughter.) Or we could be salty 4 coots, something like that. That's -- that's all. I just 5 wanted to give you some food for thought. Maybe we can work 6 through something like that, just take on some -- I mean, 7 that was a man of God there. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Did you miss the 9 point? (Laughter.) 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, not at all. I 11 guarantee you, I didn't. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Commissioner. I 13 can assure you, it would be welcome to me at times to be 14 called something like that, since what I'm frequently called 15 is much worse. But I would like to remind everyone, and 16 please spread the word among your friends and neighbors, 17 especially if you're served by any of the former AquaSource 18 companies, of the town hall meeting this evening at 7 p.m. 19 out at the Youth Exhibit Center concerning the rate increase 20 application that has been filed by Aqua Texas concerning the 21 former AquaSource water systems here in Kerr County and 22 other places across Texas. But a number of our citizens are 23 particularly affected, so I would urge you to remember that, 24 plus let your friends and neighbors know. Secondly, in line 25 with what Commissioner Letz said, we should always be 6-14-04 10 1 mindful of the sacrifices and service that our young men and 2 women in our armed forces put forth for our benefit. For 3 our benefit. And to Michael and all of his comrades in 4 arms, I wish them godspeed. Let's get on to business. 5 First item on the agenda is consideration and discussion of 6 adopting the proposed Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center 7 reservation guidelines. Mr. Holekamp, good to see you this 8 morning. 9 MR. HOLEKAMP: It's good to be seen, thank 10 you. First of all, I just have a quick one. Flags, as I 11 was told, are to remain at half-staff through July the 5th, 12 so if there's any questions why the flag is still at half. 13 I'm going to try to make sure all the buildings are -- that 14 was the -- from the web site from the federal deal. Okay. 15 This particular item on the agenda was -- was brought by one 16 of our users of the facility, brought to our attention, 17 that -- and Commissioner Baldwin was in on the meeting when 18 we tried to come up with a way to make it fair for everybody 19 that wants to rent the facility to have a fair shot at 20 dates. We -- we tried to eliminate what you call rollover 21 date, so that -- okay, if -- other than the -- well, the 22 Hill Country District Junior Livestock Show, Kerr County 23 Fair, 4-H events, and the Texas Cooperative Extension; 24 they're exempt from all this. But what we're trying to do, 25 or what needs to be done -- and this is a start. This is 6-14-04 11 1 a -- this is what we came up with in our meeting that might 2 be the fairest way of doing it, is open it up on a day at 8 3 o'clock in the morning, and those people that are interested 4 for that year previous -- like, the first Saturday in June, 5 starting at 8 o'clock, what they're going to have at that 6 time is to be able to book the dates in 2006. It's actually 7 18 months from the time. So, what we're trying to do is -- 8 is to make it fair for everybody. And I'll be the first one 9 to admit, if this does not suit, you know, the Court as to 10 the intent, we need to revisit it or make some changes. I 11 feel like this would work. I think it's going to encourage 12 people to come in and reserve those dates if they really 13 want them. But if the Court -- you know, as I said, this is 14 just -- this is a recommendation. Whether it be adopted, 15 that -- that's strictly up to the Court itself. But -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Glenn, what's the policy 17 right now? How is it handled? 18 MR. HOLEKAMP: It's not. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There is none? It's 20 just -- 21 MR. HOLEKAMP: No, what we've been doing is 22 we send them letters in June -- like, in June, to -- to ask 23 them what dates to get their contracts in. Well, the one 24 that calls in first or comes in there first gets their date, 25 and then the one that has been using a date for, say, a 6-14-04 12 1 couple of three years, they can't -- they're not getting the 2 date that they want. So, we -- we felt like we're going to 3 have to come up with a day -- I'm going to use, for 4 example -- and I don't know this for a fact. I understand 5 the City of Kerrville -- and we're not trying to mirror 6 after the City, but -- am I boring? 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 8 MR. HOLEKAMP: When they put these banners, 9 you know, on the street, as I understand, every year they -- 10 there's a date that people got to come in to reserve that 11 space for that banner. So, it's kind of like you got to be 12 there or you may not get your banner up, because it'll 13 conflict with somebody else's. So, we were trying to come 14 up with a way to make it fair for everybody. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Does this mean that 16 if you want to reserve Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center, 17 you have one day only to do that? 18 MR. HOLEKAMP: No, no, no, no. That would be 19 the day -- I mean, you could do it after that if the dates 20 were available. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There are -- 23 MR. HOLEKAMP: That would be first -- this 24 would be for the first shot at all the dates, would be then. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: The -- the one date that 6-14-04 13 1 you're giving is the opening date, kind of like the Oklahoma 2 land rush. 3 MR. HOLEKAMP: Right. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: First come, first served. 5 MR. HOLEKAMP: That is correct. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Then, thereafter, it's subject 7 to availability? 8 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Now, this period that we're 10 talking about, Mr. Holekamp, is that June 1 of the current 11 year through the following May 31st of the -- of the next 12 year? Or are we going from July 1 through June 30, or 13 what's the period of time that this first Saturday in June 14 booking, for example, would cover? I assume it's a one-year 15 period? 16 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yeah, it's a one-year period. 17 It would be from -- 18 MS. McCLINTOCK: It would -- it would be 19 from -- for example, if we did it for the first weekend in 20 June this year, it would actually be for the dates for 2006. 21 MR. HOLEKAMP: But start in -- 22 MS. McCLINTOCK: It would start as of 23 January 1st, 2006, through December -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 25 MS. McCLINTOCK: -- 2006. 6-14-04 14 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We've already missed 3 the first Saturday; we're beyond that. 4 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yeah, because we're already 5 booked through 2005. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 7 MR. HOLEKAMP: So we're going to be dealing 8 with 2006. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 10 MR. HOLEKAMP: Next time. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess I don't 12 understand the need for a -- a date. Why couldn't we just 13 have a policy that shows 18 months -- or 18 months prior to 14 an event, it's eligible to be booked? 15 MR. HOLEKAMP: Well, here's the problem, 16 okay. I -- I've got somebody that comes in in June and 17 says, "I want these eight dates -- these eight weekends." 18 Then somebody comes along July 1st and says, "Man, I need 19 one of those weekends, because that fits in with my national 20 plan." My national -- dog agility; is that correct? 21 (Ms. Hanson nodded.) 22 MR. HOLEKAMP: She's kind of out of luck, 23 because those other eight dates have already been taken. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What happens, Glenn, 25 if, hypothetically, I've got an event that I've scheduled 6-14-04 15 1 for the last 10 years on a particular weekend, and I'm 2 trying to abide by this, but circumstances beyond my control 3 take me out of the picture and I'm not there to roll over my 4 date or to reestablish my date? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're out of the 6 picture. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm out of the 8 picture? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir, that's what 10 this is all about. You either be there or be square. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- I don't have a 12 problem with the date, but I don't see why -- I mean, I 13 think it's unreasonable to have to be in person. I mean -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, then you get -- 15 you start getting the phone calls. They have a bunch of 16 groups that have been using the same dates year after year 17 after year, and that is really unfair. To dog agility 18 people, as an example; it's unfair to them. So, we need to 19 start on the same -- same page with everybody. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, I mean, it seems -- 21 and maybe we don't get anyone from out of town. Maybe 22 everyone that rents there is a resident of the area, but I 23 don't see how -- I don't think it's reasonable if -- say, if 24 someone lives in Tennessee, to make them fly down here to 25 get a date. 6-14-04 16 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, I do, Jon. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Local representative. As -- 3 as could Commissioner Williams, if his group wanted to have 4 some -- some function there, they could have a local 5 representative appear at that time. 6 MR. HOLEKAMP: Well, Jon is right, and I 7 don't think that's the intent. Most of the national stuff 8 we're doing, we -- we know the weekends, so you're going to 9 have some conflict probably somewhere down the road, but 10 they're not really considered rollovers, as such. I think 11 Commissioner Williams has hit on a very interesting one, and 12 I think Buster and -- and we talked about it, but -- like 13 the rollover. Let's just use the game warden's thing. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wild game dinner. 15 MR. HOLEKAMP: Wild game dinner. They're -- 16 they're more than just local. They're a district-wide deal. 17 They -- they have game wardens come from all over the state 18 to participate in that thing. I don't know. Do we -- do we 19 derive a list of those that are eligible for rollovers? Do 20 we develop a list that -- other than the ones that are 21 listed here, the 4-H and -- and fair and -- those are all 22 set dates, and they're going to stay. But that's the reason 23 for this conversation -- this discussion. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If you developed a 25 list of people that are allowed to roll over, we're -- we're 6-14-04 17 1 wasting time here. Let's get on to the next agenda item, 2 'cause we're right back exactly where we are today. 3 MR. HOLEKAMP: I understand. I'm just using 4 that as an example. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I know you're not 6 proposing that, but -- 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm going to wonder 8 aloud if a process similar to the process we use for the 9 submission of sealed bids would not work. You set this 10 date, an arbitrary date, at which you would examine all 11 applications for future bookings, and on that date you have 12 them in writing in front of you, time-stamped as to when 13 they were received, and you record them. You can either 14 come in in person, or you can do it in writing, and they're 15 received and then booked accordingly. Would that not have 16 some possibility of -- a system similar to that? 17 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes. But -- well, what would 18 keep them from sending it in now for June 1st of 2005, you 19 know, date? Because they'd be post-stamped before 20 anybody's. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, when you 22 publish your rules, you're accepting them as of 23 such-and-such a date for the year 2006 or the year 2007. 24 Anything that doesn't fit that parameter is just -- round 25 file. 6-14-04 18 1 MR. HOLEKAMP: I see. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm just 3 brainstorming with you out loud. 4 MR. HOLEKAMP: I understand. I understand. 5 And that's the reason for this, is to get some input, 6 because I know there is numerous events that go on out there 7 of special interest to certain groups. Always has and 8 always will be. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I've got a couple 10 questions, mechanical questions. If you do this process, 11 whether it's in person or by mail, and you're going to grant 12 the reservations as of a certain date, say you got three 13 people that want the same date. How are you going to pick 14 between the three? 15 MR. HOLEKAMP: Good question. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The second question 17 is, I've had a little experience with how emotional people 18 can get when they're denied reservations. 19 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yeah. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: How are you going to 21 notify everybody that needs to know about this new process? 22 MR. HOLEKAMP: Oh, we know who -- those that 23 have been there previously, and there would be a mailout 30 24 days prior to this June date. They would be getting 25 notification. Yes, Jamie? 6-14-04 19 1 MS. McCLINTOCK: In answer to your first 2 question, basically, what it would be is they would -- you 3 know, people like Ms. Hanson herself -- you know, she says 4 if we do this, she's going to be there at 5:30 in the 5 morning waiting at my door, because that's how bad she wants 6 those dates. Now, if the person behind her wants that same 7 date, basically what I'll do is I will tell them, "I'm 8 sorry, I don't have that date, but I do have these dates," 9 and so they'll get next pick as to the dates that are 10 available. But when I have phone calls coming in for a 11 year, you know, "When are you going to open?" and I tell 12 them June, you know, there's no way to answer one phone call 13 from another as to who's first. So, that's -- that's kind 14 of where we're standing right now. And I don't know, you 15 know, how to correct that. I don't know how to make 16 everybody happy, you know, as to the first-come, 17 first-served basis. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree. Without 19 question, we shouldn't do it over the phone. My -- but I -- 20 I don't know the problem with accepting, like we do bids, at 21 10 o'clock in the morning on a certain date that you know 22 the Post Office is going to be open, or you have them in and 23 open them the following day, or something to that effect. 24 And I guess -- and I'm -- again, I'm wondering out loud as 25 to -- what are we trying to solve here? Are there people 6-14-04 20 1 coming in booking, like, 10 or 20 days in a year, and that's 2 the problem? Or is it people that want one date a year for 3 five years that are the problem? 4 MS. McCLINTOCK: Right. 5 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yeah. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Both? Both of those 7 problems? 8 MS. McCLINTOCK: The five -- the one date the 9 same year. 10 MR. HOLEKAMP: They want the same date -- 11 MS. McCLINTOCK: Every year. 12 MR. HOLEKAMP: -- every year. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess -- 14 MR. HOLEKAMP: We're not doing that, other 15 than the county fair that y'all have done, and -- you know, 16 so we've really eliminated the rollover thing, other than 17 stock show and 4-H and stuff, which -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How many dates are 19 booked -- how many people want to book five years out? Just 20 have the same date all the time? 21 MS. McCLINTOCK: About everybody. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: About everybody? 23 MS. McCLINTOCK: I mean, you know, all of our 24 events are the same events that we've had for several years, 25 and they want to be able to let people know a year -- or 6-14-04 21 1 their vendors know a year or two years in advance, you know, 2 that it's going to be this same weekend every year so that 3 they can plan for it; it's on their minds. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, just from the -- 5 my very limited knowledge of this type of booking, it's 6 important for them to book way out. And we're -- and are we 7 shooting ourselves in the foot by saying you can't book in 8 advance to get people -- "Then we can't come to Kerrville." 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that's a 10 point -- a valid point, because if you check any -- any city 11 that does major meetings -- and meeting planners book well 12 in advance; two, three, four, five years in advance. So, 13 you know, that's something that really needs not to be just 14 abandoned capriciously. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I agree with that; I 16 surely do. A couple other questions. Do you -- would this 17 policy apply to those organizations that pay for the use of 18 the facility as well as those who do not pay for it? 19 MR. HOLEKAMP: Oh, yeah. Those that don't 20 pay for it are the ones listed here, the Hill Country Junior 21 Livestock and the 4-H and Texas Cooperative Extension. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Do you require 23 deposits when you -- 24 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, uh-huh. Yes. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I would -- if 6-14-04 22 1 somebody wanted to lease it on a certain date for -- or 2 weekend for the next 10 years, I'd lease it. 3 MR. HOLEKAMP: One question. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So would I. 5 MR. HOLEKAMP: Hold it. The Extension 6 Department and 4-H do their plans a year in advance, so what 7 would happen is, if we booked the facility five, ten years 8 out, whatever, a 4-H event come along and we would have to 9 tell them, "It ain't going to work. We've got the building 10 booked." 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would be taking 12 a paying event and setting it aside for another alternate 13 date, a nonpaying event; is that correct? 14 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yeah, but I think 4-H and them 15 are -- is what the building is for. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: It's pretty obvious to me that 17 we've -- 18 MR. HOLEKAMP: The intent -- I mean, we have 19 to be really careful, because that is the reason for it. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: There's a number of issues on 22 the table here, and it's obvious to me it's going to warrant 23 further study and input. And we'd certainly encourage any 24 of the citizens or users of the facility to get with Mr. 25 Holekamp to give him their thoughts and ideas and druthers 6-14-04 23 1 and so forth, but I don't see us as being able to resolve 2 this question today, other than to say we've got more work 3 to do on it. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ms. Hanson, would you 5 like to say anything? 6 MS. HANSON: Well, I do have, you know, one 7 kind of comment. I guess, from my viewpoint, I was 8 beginning to feel like, since there were no rules 9 whatsoever, that I got kicked around a lot and didn't have 10 an opportunity such as this would provide. If I want to get 11 there at -- or if I want to spend the night in my car, 12 that's my choice. If I want a particular date for -- you 13 know, like, if we're doing it in 2005, it would actually be 14 the dates for 2007, because I already have a booking. I 15 don't have a contract, so I could still get bumped for one 16 of the county things. I don't get a contract till about six 17 months before the year starts. 2006 -- in 2005, I would get 18 the contracts for 2006, so I could still get bumped for a 19 4-H thing. And I'm supportive of that, but I would not like 20 to be bumped because of the wild game dinner, if they came 21 before the Court and asked you, such as -- I understand that 22 the homeowners did that. They came before the Court and 23 they got an extended booking. I didn't know I was supposed 24 to do that. If I want an extended booking, am I going to 25 have to come to the Court and get a special dispensation? I 6-14-04 24 1 see that as a nightmare. 2 And then, of course, I'm -- I'm calling Jamie 3 every day for three weeks; "When are you going to open? 4 When are you going to open? When are you going to open?" 5 Because I knew that I might not get there, 'cause there was 6 no specific date that I could show up and know that I could 7 try for my date. You know, my organization publishes a 8 four-year calendar, and so they think I'm having a certain 9 weekend for the next four years, 'cause that's mine. I 10 can't have a weekend that Austin's got or somebody else has 11 got, so, you know, there are all of these factors in it. 12 But I -- I felt like -- I brought this up to my 13 Commissioner, Mr. Baldwin, because I felt that, you know, it 14 was unfair. All of a sudden, I found out I lost my date, 15 you know, before I had a chance to even book it, because 16 somebody had come to you guys and you said okay, not knowing 17 that I wanted it. 18 And, you know, so it puts pressure on you. 19 It puts pressure on Jamie, as the reservation agent, that 20 people are calling her every day. Puts pressure on 21 Mr. Holekamp to -- as Jamie's boss. And, you know, I just 22 need a fair solution. If I knew what the rules were, I can 23 abide by it. If I want to get up at 5:30 in the morning, I 24 can be there, and then if I'm second in line and somebody 25 takes my date, then I hope I have a couple of alternatives 6-14-04 25 1 from Jamie's letter to get me ready. So, those were some of 2 the concerns I had. Did I pretty much cover it, Buster? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You did. You did very 4 well, and I agree with you. I see this document as really 5 the only fair way to do this thing, unless -- unless we have 6 favorite friends out there that we want to give -- give 7 long-term booking to. You know, if we -- if we're going to 8 do that kind of thing, count me out. But if we want to do 9 it fairly, this is a good way to do it right here. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't -- to me, it's 11 not -- it's not a fairness issue on this. What my 12 opposition to this -- my opposition is financial. I mean, 13 we have -- we are doing what we can to try to make that 14 facility pay for as much of itself as we can. And if 15 that -- and from what I've heard so far, and what I think is 16 that we have to allow advance bookings to do that. That's 17 how we attract events. And I think that the -- you know, we 18 need to find out a way, but I agree, very much so, that we 19 need to have a very clear policy as to how we do that. And 20 it goes back to what -- to follow up on what the Judge said, 21 I don't mind not dealing with this today, but I think we 22 need to put it on our next agenda as a workshop item, and I 23 think we've got to do it. I mean, we can talk about this 24 every day and just duck the tough decision we're going to 25 have to make. I think we just need to -- you know, if we 6-14-04 26 1 want to allow more people time to come at the next meeting, 2 do a 1:30 posting, and stay until we hammer it out. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: I think all the -- most of the 4 -- most of the major concerns and issues are probably on the 5 table now that may not have been there before. We want to 6 provide a way to provide for the economic stability of the 7 users so that the major events that are out there have some 8 degree of certainty of use, but, by the same token, have it 9 on a fair and equitable basis to all the other users. And 10 it's a tough balance to strike, but we'll get there. But we 11 need a policy. 12 MR. HOLEKAMP: To make it a little easier, 13 is -- is sometimes one facility -- we divide them into two 14 different facilities. Sometimes one is needed and the other 15 one isn't, so you can have two events going on the same day. 16 I mean, that happens quite frequently. So -- so, there 17 again, that has to be taken into consideration, too, what 18 portion of the facility is to be used. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And if we -- they're 20 going to be on our next agenda. If you could inform 21 representatives from, like, the Extension Office; get Roy 22 maybe at that meeting? 23 MR. HOLEKAMP: Mm-hmm. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maybe some 4-H, pretty 25 much every -- you know, some of the organizations that are 6-14-04 27 1 affected that do a lot of bookings there, potential people 2 to come to the next meeting as well, and get input. The 3 only one that I really don't see a whole lot is -- you know, 4 maybe we should have someone from the Stock Show Association 5 come, but we have -- their dates are, you know -- 6 MR. HOLEKAMP: They're locked in. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're locked for lots 8 of reasons. 9 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yeah. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So them, I don't think. 11 But, other than them, I think there's a -- we need to 12 discuss it. I do believe and agree with you that it's a -- 13 4-H and Extension Office needs to have, you know, use of 14 that facility a lot. But I begin to differ a little bit 15 when we have a paying customer versus a free use. I think 16 someone who pays should have priority over someone who 17 doesn't pay. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But with the caveat that 20 4-H is a little bit different category. 21 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yeah. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I don't think 23 they're -- 24 MR. HOLEKAMP: Well, that be would be y'all's 25 decision. I just said my recommendation is that -- 6-14-04 28 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'll put it this 2 way. If somebody came in here and said to us, "I want to 3 rent that for the second Saturday in February for the next 4 10 years; I'm going to pay you a lot of money, bring a lot 5 of money to town," I think we need to be able to make that 6 deal. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And -- and bypass the 8 agricultural youth of Kerr County? 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No, sir. They're -- 10 they're -- did I pick a bad example date? No, they -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, you're just 12 following on what these two guys just said, and they did say 13 that. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, I didn't. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, you did. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Hill Country Junior 17 District Livestock show, I believe, has priority over 18 everything. That's the reason the barn is there. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's what I just said, 21 that that event is -- is excluded, and the 4-H needs to be 22 accommodated. But they don't have priority over all dates. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, they do. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Sounds like a 1:30 25 next meeting item. 6-14-04 29 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure does. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, actually, I'm 3 going to disagree with Commissioner Letz on this one, too. 4 Why would we want to fill up the court and spend -- 5 courtroom and spend a whole afternoon talking about this 6 thing? Why don't a couple of us get together with some of 7 these people and try to work it out, bring it back as an 8 item like this, and -- instead of everybody being here all 9 day long? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's fine. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: That may be a good interim 12 solution, and then bring back some draft proposals or 13 alternates. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're not going to 15 have to hire lawyers or anything, are we? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I wouldn't think so. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not yet. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Holekamp. We 19 appreciate that. I apologize to Constable Pickens, for whom 20 the next item is on for 9:15. Item 2, request to transfer 21 funds from different line items to pay for the emergency 22 replacement of a back windshield on his marked patrol unit. 23 I assume it's your marked patrol unit? 24 MR. PICKENS: Yes, sir. Morning, Judge. 25 Morning, Commissioners. 6-14-04 30 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What are we doing on the 2 first item? Are we having a workshop, or is it going to 3 follow Commissioner Baldwin's recommendation, have a 4 proposal at the next meeting? Just so I know where we're 5 going. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm going to stay in 7 the mix, 'cause I think I have the answer to it. And -- 8 y'all can jump on if you want to. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. So we'll leave it 10 up to you to get it on the agenda to resolve. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just did today. 12 Okay, we'll take care of it. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: I assume we're talking about 14 your patrol unit; is that correct -- 15 MR. PICKENS: Yes, sir. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: -- Mr. Pickens? 17 MR. PICKENS: Morning, Judge. Morning, 18 Commissioners. As you can see in front of you, back on 19 May 27th of this year, about 8:20 p.m., I was out serving 20 some civil papers and patrolling my precinct, and I was on 21 my way to go get gas when we had a storm coming in about 22 that time, and my back glass in my patrol car just 23 shattered. At first I thought somebody had shot at me, but 24 after determination that that was not the case, I went ahead 25 and took my patrol unit back to my house, secured it, 6-14-04 31 1 covered it up with a tarp, and immediately the next day I 2 called Ford and told them about it. They said it would take 3 them five to seven days to get a windshield in. I called 4 two other glass companies, and they said they could have it 5 within half a day and get it installed. First one was 6 $1,074.12. I called Mindy, and she said our deductible was 7 $1,000 from the insurance company. And Ziegler Glass was 8 $548.11. Being the fact that it was a -- I constitute it as 9 an emergency need to get it replaced so as not to damage the 10 interior inside the patrol unit, I had it done. And then, 11 looking over my line items, I request a transfer of $450 out 12 of Vehicle Insurance, $47.13 out of Capital Outlay, and 13 $50.98 out of Group Insurance to cover this cost. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mr. Pickens, my 15 only -- I'm certainly in favor of fixing our brand-new car, 16 but my only question is -- is why did you go this route, as 17 opposed to like everybody else, as far as a budget 18 amendment? You wanted to give the report of what happened? 19 MR. PICKENS: Yes, sir. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. I move that we 21 approve this item. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 24 approval of the agenda item and the budget amendment, as 25 submitted. Any further question or discussion? All in 6-14-04 32 1 favor, signify by raising your right hand. 2 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 4 (No response.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Thank 6 you very much. 7 MR. PICKENS: Thank you, Judge. Thank you, 8 Commissioners. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I apologize for the delay. 10 Next item on the agenda we're running a bit behind also on, 11 approval of a resolution for the Kerr Interfaith Disaster 12 Response. Commissioner Baldwin? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir, second time. 14 My friend -- good friend Tom Jones is here to bring this 15 report and talk about this resolution. 16 MR. JONES: I promise not to take but just a 17 few minutes, since y'all are running way behind. I want to 18 thank y'all for the time to come and speak with you and your 19 audience. We mainly want to thank the residents of Kerr 20 County, too, for allowing us to be of assistance to them. 21 Kerr Interfaith was formed preceding the flood of 2001. We 22 were formed to try to go out and seek the unmet needs of the 23 folks of Kerr County so that we could be of assistance to 24 them, whether it be through advocacy work, helping 25 entitlement through FEMA or whatever organizations we needed 6-14-04 33 1 to, or through actually coming in and repairing their homes. 2 We went out; it took us almost a year, by the time we got 3 formed and were able to secure the funding, to repair homes. 4 That's a lot of our concern here, is now that it's been 5 three years, we have just finished and we're just fixing to 6 turn in our final report on -- on the repair of all these 7 homes. And, as Commissioner Nicholson said, we've already 8 had another flood since then; we could get hit with this 9 again today. But we were good stewards with our money, I 10 guess, is the best way to put it. We've got a lot of money 11 left from some of the grants. 12 And so, rather than us get hit with another 13 major disaster and then have to go through the same process 14 again, what we're wanting to do is -- is kind of -- kind of 15 transform Kerr Interfaith to where we're still here and 16 we're still organized, ready to go to work tomorrow if we 17 need to, in the event of another major catastrophic event. 18 But, at the same time, we're still here as a service 19 organization for the residents of Kerr County. So, what 20 we're -- we're proposing to do with Kerr Interfaith is to 21 kind of turn a little different direction, go out and still 22 be seeking to help with unmet needs in Kerr County, such as 23 someone that may not be able to -- that may be on Social 24 Security, has no money; roof may be falling in, things of 25 that area. And that's just one example; there's -- it could 6-14-04 34 1 cover a broad spectrum. But we're wanting to make sure that 2 we stay here as a service organization for these residents, 3 and the only way to do that is to get some of our grants 4 released, because they were designated specifically for that 5 flood. 6 And, so, we basically got dead money sitting 7 there, and the only way to do that is to go back to the 8 agencies that -- that gave us these grants with letters of 9 support, that they -- they support our area that we're going 10 into, that they support Kerr Interfaith as an organization, 11 to be here for us, and that they will unlock the funds so 12 that we can go forward and start helping some of the other 13 folks here. And, you know, of course, we hope we don't get 14 hit with another one like that, but you -- you don't know 15 when that's going to happen. It's been almost three years, 16 and it's -- you know, we've already had how many floods in 17 that time period? Even the small floods that you were 18 speaking of earlier, you -- you always have one or two 19 people that are hit with them. You know, you don't read 20 about them because they aren't as major as they were, but 21 three weeks ago, that flood we had, we had two different 22 residents that were affected tremendously with that, and 23 they do not have the income to fix their homes. I can't 24 help them right now, and that's what we want to try to do, 25 is resolve that to where we can. 6-14-04 35 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move that we approve 2 the resolution for Kerr Interfaith Disaster Response. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 5 approval of the agenda item. Any question or discussion? 6 All in favor of the motion, please signify by raising your 7 right hand. 8 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 10 (No response.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. 12 MR. JONES: Thank you very much. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Jones. We 14 appreciate you being here. Next item on the agenda is 15 consider and discuss merit increase for Chief Deputy 16 Treasurer. 17 MS. NEMEC: Good morning, gentlemen. I am 18 requesting a 2 and a half percent merit increase for my 19 chief deputy for the exceptional job that she has done with 20 our safety program. And the Personnel Policy says that in 21 order to grant a merit increase, that I must submit a job 22 evaluation on the employee, so I have that for each one of 23 you. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Want me to pass them 25 out? 6-14-04 36 1 MS. NEMEC: Please. And that goes to the 2 Judge. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The Judge gets 4 something we don't get? 5 MS. NEMEC: Something special, yeah. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This goes to the 7 Judge? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, the -- 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Top one goes to me? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 12 MS. NEMEC: I provided each one of you with a 13 letter also explaining all the duties that are involved in 14 the safety program, and everything that my chief deputy has 15 implemented, and if you'll look at these three folders up 16 here, this all has been done in a matter of -- how many 17 months? 18 MS. NIX: Since January. 19 MS. NEMEC: Since January. All this 20 documentation is needed now, and she has compiled all this 21 since January. So, again, she has saved the County 22 thousands of dollars in fines by documenting everything, and 23 then has also allowed the County to receive a reimbursement 24 of over $17,000 for the safety program working as well as 25 it's working. 6-14-04 37 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I move to approve. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 4 approval of the agenda item as presented by the Treasurer. 5 Any questions or discussion? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is in your 7 budget? 8 MS. NEMEC: No, sir, it's not. I don't know 9 if -- during the budget process, if there was some money put 10 aside for merit increases. I kind of remember something to 11 that effect, and I'm not sure where it was put. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tommy's hiding back 13 there. 14 MR. TOMLINSON: I can't -- I don't recall 15 where -- I think that's correct, but I don't know. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: $10,000 line. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I thought we laid in 18 $10,000, yeah. 19 MS. NEMEC: We'll find out where it is, and 20 I'll just have Mindy do a budget amendment, if that's all 21 right, for that amount. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: This is the kind of 23 exceptional performance that -- that provides a measurable 24 and direct impact on the County that I think should attract 25 merit increases. 6-14-04 38 1 MS. NEMEC: I regret only asking for 2 and a 2 half percent. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think my question I had 4 was that this increase is under the policy that we 5 implemented to allow for such increases, and when we came to 6 court. 7 MS. NEMEC: Yes, sir. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's under the 9 existing policy, which has not been amended, whatever that 10 is. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's right. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I believe that's correct. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Existing policy, as in 14 from last budget, or the prior-to-last budget? 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Earlier this year, 16 we discussed developing -- promulgating some guidelines 17 about how to get -- get authority to grant a merit increase, 18 and there was some -- some resistance from certain quarters 19 to those guidelines, and we did not follow through -- follow 20 up on it. So, this is under the existing policy. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's correct. And 22 the resistance had to do with the Court approving or 23 disapproving. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So we're still where 6-14-04 39 1 we were. And the dollars are set aside for this purpose. 2 MS. NEMEC: And I just went ahead and 3 followed what is in the policy now, as far as presenting it 4 with a job evaluation for approval. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: I might mention for the 6 benefit of the audience, there has been a considerable 7 emphasis placed on workplace safety in government, just 8 within the past -- well, less than a year. And I'm sure the 9 members of the Court recall, we got involved in a specific 10 safety incentive program, and was one of just a few counties 11 who received just under $18,000 for our safety program. It 12 actually came as a direct credit against our workers 13 compensation insurance premiums, but that incentive program 14 resulted in Kerr County saving almost $18,000. And, since 15 then, there have been a considerable amount of work done on 16 our safety programs, both for the administrative personnel, 17 and also for the Road and Bridge and also the law 18 enforcement personnel, and -- and Ms. Nix has been very, 19 very actively involved in those. In fact, I think Ms. Nemec 20 said she's -- she's been at the point of all that activity. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: This -- this -- the 22 real winners in this are the employees that aren't going to 23 be hurt because of it, and the taxpayers. 24 MS. NEMEC: Right. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Saving money. And 6-14-04 40 1 the County Judge and County Treasurer have also played an 2 important role in this. And, no, don't ask; you're not 3 eligible for a merit increase, but thank you anyhow. 4 MS. NEMEC: Thank you. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions on the 6 motion? All in favor of the motion as presented, signify by 7 raising your right hand. 8 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 10 (No response.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Thank 12 you. 13 MS. NEMEC: Thank you so much. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Ms. Nemec. Let's 15 go to Item 11, consider setting a public hearing for plat 16 revisions under the alternate platting process in Kerr 17 County Subdivision Rule 6.04, subdivision -- Subsection G. 18 Mr. Johnston? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll go ahead and take 20 this real quick, Judge. It's Falling Water Subdivision. I 21 thought we had finished this, you know, last year. Now 22 they're going the other direction, combining lots and making 23 them bigger. That's all right. I'll move approval. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 6-14-04 41 1 approval of the agenda item. Any further question or 2 discussion? 3 MR. JOHNSTON: I'd suggest a date for July 4 26th; that's 30 days. 10 a.m. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 10 a.m.? Thank you. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that included as part of 7 your motion, Commissioner? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, sir. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. All those in favor 10 of the motion to set a public hearing on this item for 11 July 26th at 10 a.m. this year, please indicate by raising 12 your right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's 17 go to Item 14, consideration of awarding bid for backhoe 18 loader, and have the Judge sign the finance proposal and 19 total machine warranty for same. Mr. Odom? 20 MR. ODOM: Yes, Your Honor. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I thought you'd disappeared on 22 us there for just a moment. 23 MR. ODOM: I'm short, but not quite that 24 short. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I see. 6-14-04 42 1 MR. ODOM: I have before me the -- I believe 2 that you have a copy of that; am I right, Judge? For 3 signature? And also, this is the contract. I will give it 4 to you. I'm sorry, I didn't have it at the time that we put 5 this agenda together. We were waiting for the contract; I 6 believe it's part of this. I'm not a lawyer, but this is 7 what they brought to us to be signed. Also, I think this 8 first part was an agreement that we would enter into doing 9 it, and that's the actual contract. So, what -- from the 10 bids that we had the other day, that we recommend that Holt 11 Machinery be awarded the backhoe contract. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 15 approval of the award to Holt Machinery, and enter into the 16 lease-purchase agreement in connection with that. Has this 17 been reviewed by the County Attorney? 18 MR. ODOM: I don't think it has. That's -- 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 20 MR. ODOM: I just received it Thursday, I 21 believe. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Part of my motion is that 23 this needs to be referred to the County Attorney for 24 approval. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: And subject to that approval. 6-14-04 43 1 MR. ODOM: I apologize. Like I say, we 2 didn't get it until Thursday. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And one other question, 5 Leonard. My memory tells -- or recalls that the bids varied 6 quite a bit on this one. 7 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What was the reason for 9 that? I mean, they were, like, huge variances. 10 MR. ODOM: Well, the dollar amount for the 11 lease was within $100, I think, monthly. But the difference 12 ended up with the maintenance agreement. There was $8,500 13 on two of them, and $275 from Cat. I don't have a good 14 explanation, other than that we've tried to analyze it, and, 15 of course, the people that bid $8,500 are not going to say 16 what -- other than that's what they think the maintenance 17 will be. Holt has had the experience over a period of time 18 that that's not the case. Some of it has to do with their 19 amortization of what the value of those pieces of equipment 20 would be at the end of five years; has something to do with 21 it. The maintenance in the past over five years was -- was 22 something that it was striking to me, that much money. I 23 don't -- we hadn't figured out what they were trying to do 24 with the numbers, other than they would just be completely 25 on a monthly lease basis. That money that we've got -- this 6-14-04 44 1 bid here is cheaper than what we had five years ago, which 2 is amazing. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It is amazing. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 5 MR. ODOM: And $275 over five years on the 6 maintenance is -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Worth it. 8 MR. ODOM: You know, certainly worth it, sir. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Of course, the Spurs 10 going out in early rounds may have something to do with it, 11 too. 12 MR. ODOM: Could be. Lakers are not doing 13 much better. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or 15 discussion? All in favor of the motion as amended, signify 16 by raising your right hand. 17 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. 21 MR. ODOM: All right, sir. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Give this to Mr. Motley. 23 MR. ODOM: Thank you. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. Okay, it is 25 now 10 o'clock, and we're back on the timed items. Number 6-14-04 45 1 5, open and receive bids for septic tank mitigation in Phase 2 I, Kerrville South Wastewater Project. Bids to be forwarded 3 to Kamran Kaviani, project engineer, for review, tabulation, 4 and recommendation for award. I have before me two bids -- 5 actually, three bids, it appears. I would note that the bid 6 submitted by Guadalupe Contractors -- because of the 7 courthouse being closed as a national day of mourning last 8 Friday, the last date for submission of bids, the bid of 9 Guadalupe Contractors was delivered to the Sheriff's Office 10 in a timely manner. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: As was the second one 12 there, too, Judge. 13 (Discussion off the record.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: The other bid we have is from 15 Clint G. Reeves -- one of the other bids. That was brought 16 in this morning at 8:45 and delivered to the County Clerk's 17 office because of the closure -- unknown, of course -- last 18 Friday. Unknown at the time that the bids were advertised, 19 so it will be accepted. The bid from Guadalupe Contractors 20 indicates cost for all labor and materials is $49,834. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Got some close ones 22 today. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: D.W. Contractors showed a bid 24 for all labor and materials, $49,402. And Clint Reeves -- 25 Clint G. Reeves, completion of job as advertised, $74,300. 6-14-04 46 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, I move we accept 2 all bids and refer them to Kamran Kaviani for review and 3 recommendation. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 6 acceptance of the bids and referral to the project engineer 7 for review and recommendation. Any further question or 8 discussion? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have a question, 10 Judge. Bill, in this letter from Mr. Tucker to you, it says 11 here the cost is entirely grant eligible, and $30,000 has 12 been set aside, and possibly eight more thousand that are 13 left over from other areas, so that would be a total of 38. 14 The lowest bid I see here is 49-something. What happens -- 15 what do you think happens? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I think it's up 17 to the contract -- project engineer to talk to the bidders 18 and see where this takes us. But, then, if we can't get 19 within that range, then we'll have to come back to the 20 drawing board and talk about it again. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Which means come to 22 the taxpayers? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, it has to be 24 figured out how to get it out of grants. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right. 6-14-04 47 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Somehow, Phase I or 2 Phase II, with one or the other. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just wanted to make 4 sure I was reading this -- 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You were reading it 6 correctly. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or 8 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 9 your right hand. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. The -- 14 let's take Item 17, consider and discuss and take 15 appropriate action on scheduling Commissioners Court 2005 16 budget workshop. I placed this item on the agenda. There 17 was a desire on the part of -- of Commissioners that they 18 get involved in the budget process a bit earlier than -- 19 than in the previous year, and my recollection was the 20 desire that -- to have at least the initial budget workshop 21 sometime in the latter part of June. And, so, I've got it 22 on, so let's figure out the date that you want to do it, 23 gentlemen. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How about -- since we 6-14-04 48 1 didn't do a workshop at the next meeting in the afternoon 2 earlier today, let's do -- let's have it at 1:30 at our next 3 meeting. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 28th, 1:30? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 28th at 1:30. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are we talking about 7 a single workshop, or are we talking about a series of 8 workshops? What are we talking about? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, my view would be 10 just a -- a preliminary, single workshop to kind of see what 11 all our thoughts are, more than anything else. Kind of a 12 little bit of brainstorming where we're going with the 13 budget and set up future workshops, discuss with the Judge 14 what his timetable looks like with presenting the budget, 15 and then just kind of discuss it. I don't think it's 16 necessarily a real long workshop, necessarily, but just kind 17 of an overview, and then hopefully by then, the Judge will 18 have some idea as to the direction it looks like we're 19 going. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: The only caveat I would have, 21 gentlemen, is if it's going to be a meeting of any length -- 22 and when I say "any length," I'm concerned about the 23 Commissioners Court meeting running over into the early 24 afternoon of Monday, and I've traditionally and normally do 25 have juvenile cases scheduled at 3:00, and I'm just worried 6-14-04 49 1 about the time frame there. Tuesday afternoon or any time 2 Wednesday would certainly be more preferable for my 3 schedule. I realize each of you gentlemen have your own 4 schedule. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm in agreement with 6 that, Judge, and you may not consider it -- the Kerr County 7 Republican Party has its annual golf tournament in the 8 afternoon on the 28th, also. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Got to do it on the 10 28th. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 28th, and we can 12 just -- if our agenda happens to run over, the meeting can 13 run over into Tuesday. I'm pretty serious about that. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Tuesday or Wednesday 15 is good for me. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It doesn't -- I would 17 rather have Wednesday than Tuesday. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Wednesday is generally a 19 pretty clear day for me. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Whatever. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Do it Wednesday at 9:00 or 22 10:00 in the morning? Or in the afternoon is fine. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How about 10:00? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Works. That would be 25 the 30th at 10:00? 6-14-04 50 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Is this just going to be 2 one for y'all first, before you start working with the 3 department heads? 'Cause I won't be in town during that 4 time. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We picked a good day. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We need to do the 7 Sheriff's Office on that day. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Perfect day. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We lucked out there. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You did get lucky. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you know what this 12 -- I mean, let's stop and think just for a second. Why 13 couldn't we -- I mean, we can do our little preliminary 14 thing of finding out how the Judge feels and how we all feel 15 about these wonderful things and all that. Why couldn't we 16 do a couple while we're here? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't know why we 18 couldn't. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't know why we couldn't, 20 either. I mean, at least if there are some extraordinary 21 or -- or particular items that need attention from a 22 particular elected official or department head, it might be 23 good to go ahead and get them rolling. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think so. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Only problem with 6-14-04 51 1 putting the Sheriff in first is when we deal with all his, 2 there may not be anything left for anybody else. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, that's true. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How about if we schedule 5 some big-ticket items that are on the horizon? I'm thinking 6 of the voting machines, something -- just to get some of 7 this information on some of these items, and I think give 8 the Sheriff -- and if he's going to have any large 9 expenditures, you know, early on so we can hit these big 10 topics, and we kind of have them on the table as we're going 11 through the full budgets. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Might be a good idea. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Capital outlay items? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Primarily -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Significant capital 17 outlay items. And we're not talking about a replacement 18 computer or something. I'm talking about, you know, a -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Helicopter for 20 Precinct 1. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, your helicopter, 22 things of that nature. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Helicopter -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Do we need a motion on that? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: On the helicopter? 6-14-04 52 1 Or on the -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: No, no, no. I don't want to 3 hear that motion. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move we have -- on 5 June 30th at 10 a.m., have a budget workshop. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for a 8 budget workshop at 10 a.m. on June the 30th of this year. 9 Do we want to ask for the preliminaries and the general 10 aspects as to the -- and particular attention paid to 11 capital outlay items from all elected officials and 12 department heads? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd like to hear 14 that. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That wouldn't be a bad 16 idea. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Capital outlay or 19 significant budget issues, you know. And -- except, I mean, 20 let's leave salaries out of it. But, you know, anything 21 that's going to be significant that a department has, I 22 think it will be good to get it brought to the forefront 23 early on. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 25 discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion, 6-14-04 53 1 signify by raising your right hand. 2 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 4 (No response.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And on that date, 7 then, we will lay out a firm schedule from that point on? 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Of meeting -- budget 10 meetings? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: That would certainly be an 12 option we have available to us. It is now about 12 minutes 13 after 10:00. I will recess the Commissioners Court meeting 14 for this date, and I will open a public hearing for the 15 alternate plat process for Lot 13 of Riverside Park. 16 (The regular Commissioners Court meeting was closed at 10:12 a.m., and a public hearing 17 was held in open court, as follows:) 18 P U B L I C H E A R I N G 19 JUDGE TINLEY: This item was posted for 20 10:10 a.m. this date. Do we have any member of the public 21 that wishes to be heard with respect to the alternate plat 22 process for Lot 13 of Riverside Park? Any member of the 23 public who wishes to be heard on this item? 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Seeing no one desiring to be 6-14-04 54 1 heard, I will close the public hearing for the alternate 2 plat process for Lot 13 of Riverside Park, and I will 3 reconvene the Commissioners Court meeting scheduled for this 4 date. 5 (The public hearing was concluded at 10:13 a.m., and the regular Commissioners Court 6 meeting was reopened.) 7 - - - - - - - - - - 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Item Number 12, 9 consider changes to the '03/'04 Floodplain Administrative 10 budget. 11 MR. JOHNSTON: The current budget, the 12 Floodplain, we developed in November '03, and the 13 salary-related items were listed at $10,388. Seven months 14 into the project, we've expended $12,429.86, and projecting 15 that for the end of the '03/'04 budget year based on that 16 seven-month average, which is all we have to go on, would be 17 an additional $6,886. So, we need an additional $8,928 to 18 finish the budget year out in those line items. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just, I guess, a comment 20 that I have. This is kind of -- almost goes into our last 21 item's discussion, is I think that this really necessitates 22 a need for us to look at the County Engineer's position in 23 next year's budget. I think that this is a function that 24 fits in that job description, and we are -- if you add that 25 to the salary, we're basically at a full-time -- what a 6-14-04 55 1 full-time County Engineer's salary should cost. Now, that 2 being said, I think, you know, we need to do what we need to 3 do to get money for this year's budget. We knew when we 4 went into it this year that we were in a little bit of an 5 unknown. We wanted to go this route to see exactly what the 6 cost and times, things of that nature, and obtain some more 7 information, which we've done. And my other comment, before 8 we get to a motion or anything, is the -- and this is to the 9 County Attorney. And I know he's been very busy on other 10 things, some from my precinct. He also has had some tragedy 11 at his office, but I think the time is now, that we also 12 need to look at what our options are from a legal 13 standpoint, and organization in the Road and Bridge 14 Department. And I think there's a request down there to 15 kind of give us some information. I'm not sure -- I'm not 16 sure if we got it back or not. David, maybe you need to 17 tell me something. It's on my desk. 18 MR. MOTLEY: You're talking about just -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Structure as to how the 20 County Engineer -- 21 MR. MOTLEY: I've done some research on that, 22 but really haven't put it down in words. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think if we could -- 24 maybe the goal is to kind of, if it works with you, to 25 have -- we need to address this during the budget process, 6-14-04 56 1 whether it's the first meeting in two weeks, or we can have 2 a subsequent workshop on it, but I think it's just -- I see 3 the direction going that we need to go with the County 4 Engineer in a different format than we're currently using. 5 And maybe the same individual, but just from the standpoint 6 of cost, as to basically -- it's basically what a full-time 7 person should be. That being said, I'll move approval of 8 the budget amendment as requested. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Before you do that, 10 let me just ask a question. We're being asked here to 11 budget for the rest of the year, really not knowing whether 12 we're going to -- it would actually use this much or not. 13 Would it not be wiser to continue like we're going, and 14 pay-as-you-go type of thing, and then look at that overall 15 number in the end? I mean, if -- if I were presenting this 16 thing and I asked -- and you approved it, I would make sure 17 that it was spent. Not really, but some people would. I 18 mean, I just don't know if that's a wise way to do it. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think you have a good 20 point, but I think -- I hate to use our time in every 21 meeting to do a budget amendment, but I think maybe doing 22 half the amount or a quarter of the amount or some amount to 23 go for a couple of months, and then maybe we can look at it, 24 may be appropriate. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd like to ask 6-14-04 57 1 Franklin, how'd you come up with this particular $8,900, 2 Franklin? What's the basis of that? 3 MR. JOHNSTON: Seven months is actual amounts 4 which we -- you know, time, just hourly amounts. And the 5 last four months is based on that average, so it's almost 6 guaranteed. It wouldn't be exactly that amount, but it 7 should be close to that amount. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move that we add $4,000 10 to the Floodplain Administration budget. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well -- I was just 12 going to ask a question. See if you can get a second first. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where would this money 14 come from? I can't remember what we -- what we dipped into. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I haven't -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Does anybody know? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I haven't done that -- he 18 left. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good time to do it, 20 too. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Dave, do you 22 remember? Did we stash some extra money when we reorganized 23 for floodplain someplace? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think we have 25 anything stashed for floodplain, and I don't know where it's 6-14-04 58 1 coming from. I mean, I think we need to talk to the County 2 Auditor. 3 (Discussion off the record.) 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I guess if we're 5 going to do four, and three months away, and it's based on 6 an average of what he's utilized over the last seven months, 7 why deal with the issue again? Let's just take care of it. 8 And if he doesn't spend it, he doesn't spend it. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's my thought 10 also, Commissioner. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Franklin, in the -- the 12 prior -- the seven months that we've gone through so far, 13 have you taken out all of the training costs out of that 14 budget? 15 MR. JOHNSTON: Not yet, no. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So they're included in 17 here? 18 MR. JOHNSTON: There's still surplus in 19 training and conferences. There's still some money left in 20 that part of the budget. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you need any 22 additional training? 23 MR. JOHNSTON: I have one more scheduled. 24 It's actually a free seminar in San Antonio, so the only 25 expense will be the driving back and forth. 6-14-04 59 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How much -- do you know 2 how much is left in your training budget? 3 MR. JOHNSTON: I don't have the budget with 4 me. I think there's a couple thousand dollars left. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That you used to have. 6 That just officially disappeared. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: May have just flew 8 away. 9 MR. JOHNSTON: May have gone. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: $10,000 -- a little over 11 $10,000 in Contingency, Nondepartmental. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We may end up taking 13 it out of Leonard's salary over there. 14 MR. ODOM: He will have a problem. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, Leonard's still 16 here. 17 MR. JOHNSTON: Sorry I don't have more 18 information, but this was just kind of a -- this is what it 19 is when we started in November; it was kind of a -- no, 20 really, budgeting involved in it. All the money expended 21 has just been on what was needed. You know, you have the 22 time sheets, so it's -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand you've 24 been documenting, and I appreciate that. I tell you what, I 25 am totally amazed, though, how much this thing costs. I am 6-14-04 60 1 totally amazed. I had no idea. 2 MR. JOHNSTON: We get people in, walk-ins 3 every day. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I didn't realize he 5 was doing that much work. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Doing it for 5,000 7 bucks. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I know. 9 MR. JOHNSTON: We do have a credit amount 10 against that amount of a couple thousand dollars of actual 11 fees that we've turned in, but that doesn't show up on the 12 budget. But -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can pass on it and 14 come back at the next meeting, let Franklin get with the 15 Auditor and see where they can find the money. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're likely to have 17 to be back at 1:30; we can take it up this afternoon. 18 There's a 1:30 timed item. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: That may be the best thing to 20 do, is to come back and pick that up. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: At 1:30? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: At some point. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd recommend we do that. 24 I withdraw my motion. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: You're withdrawing your 6-14-04 61 1 motion? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We'll come back to that 4 item, then. Let's go to Item Number 15, consider, discuss, 5 and take appropriate action on plan to address concerns 6 regarding elements of the City of Kerrville's Uniform 7 Development Code that affect development in unincorporated 8 areas of Kerr County and Kerrville/Kerr County Airport. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I -- Jon, I 10 gave you one. I'm just going to hand out two more. I put 11 this on the agenda because there is a lot of concern going 12 on around town, as you've read in the daily newspaper, about 13 the U.D.C., and much of that doesn't have anything to do 14 with Kerr County Commissioners Court or the County's ability 15 to regulate development in the Subdivision Rules and Water 16 Availability Rules, roads, et cetera, stormwater. But there 17 are certain sections of this that do have a direct meaning 18 and impact to Kerr County, and so I attempted to put 19 together sort of a summary of what those are. But I put in 20 the -- in the packet for you all of the U.D.C. sections that 21 have some bearing on Kerr County and its operations with 22 respect to development. I think most notable is -- are 23 those sections I've highlighted, and for whatever -- for 24 whatever reason, Section 1.4.2 establishes that City of 25 Kerrville "shall be the primary platting authority within 6-14-04 62 1 the ETJ, in accordance with the interlocal agreement with 2 Kerr County." Needless to say, that agreement doesn't 3 exist. 4 And, so, that just sort of crystallizes for 5 me the need for us to talk about how this proposed U.D.C. 6 affects Kerr County and our ability to regulate what we do 7 in the unincorporated areas of Kerr County. Sign 8 ordinances, for example. That which is being proposed would 9 apply to every business that operates in the unincorporated 10 areas of Kerr County within the City's ETJ. And there are 11 other things, and I recognize that we certainly still have 12 time to sit down and work out with the City who's doing the 13 plat review process and how that's going to take place, 14 because the Legislature, I believe, gave us an extension 15 till '06. Is that correct, Commissioner? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: April of '06. But 18 these other matters that are in here that I've highlighted 19 for the Court have other significance, and if this thing 20 gets put to rest, as it is headed to be doing -- to happen, 21 by City Council after the review process goes on with 22 Planning and Zoning, we may have gotten there after the 23 gate's shut. And, so, what I -- what I have proposed was 24 first a discussion among the Court, and now I just handed 25 you what would be the basis of a resolution which -- which 6-14-04 63 1 would enable us to get together with the City -- City 2 Manager and City Attorney, at the direction of the City 3 Council, with representatives from this Court to sit down 4 and work out these matters before it becomes nailed in place 5 by the city government. So, that's what we need to talk 6 about. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you a 8 question. What is the -- what does the state law say about 9 the authority in the ETJ? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, we regulate -- 11 we regulate, under Kerr County Subdivision Rules now, 12 everything outside of the city limits, and I think that's 13 always been -- been an issue, hasn't it, Commissioner? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There are conflicts 16 that apply in the ETJ, and I think this only makes them -- 17 illustrates them greater. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- I mean, my 19 frustration with this has been -- and I think Commissioner 20 Baldwin and I were appointed by the Court to represent the 21 Court on the committee here. Basically, what you're 22 referring to in your resolution is that the City of 23 Kerrville has refused to -- to meet with us until they come 24 up with something to meet on, and they can't -- they haven't 25 done that in over a year. I don't really know -- I mean, I 6-14-04 64 1 think I'm certainly in favor of the resolution. The City -- 2 I know, one-on-one, I have sat down with Ron Patterson and 3 gone over how I feel, and basic concepts that I think the -- 4 the rules for platting subdivisions should be handled in the 5 ETJ. I don't think we had any great philosophical 6 differences there. Little bit -- you know, but there are 7 some differences, clearly. But the -- the basic answer was, 8 they wanted to get the U.D.C. behind them so they know what 9 they were going to work with. Well, it's like the chicken 10 and the egg. I don't think we can wait for them to finish 11 the U.D.C. I think we need to come up with a plan before 12 they finish the U.D.C., because it needs to be incorporated 13 in it. And -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We've said that 15 numerous times. There are areas around the city limits of 16 Kerrville that they need to participate -- that they need to 17 have the authority in. There's no question of that, because 18 the growth is going there, and you can see it going out that 19 way and everything. But, on the other hand, there are areas 20 that is -- there is no growth, and probably will never be 21 any growth in our life and time, and we shouldn't be 22 applying city rules and regulations to those areas. It's 23 ridiculous, in my opinion. So, like -- and Jon and I 24 mentioned that several times. But in our meetings with the 25 City over the years, I try to ask this question every time 6-14-04 65 1 we're in there. Who has the authority in the ETJ, as far as 2 planning is concerned? And they always say, "We do." I'm 3 wondering if David, right off the top of his head, would 4 have a different answer. 5 MR. MOTLEY: I wouldn't give you an answer 6 right off the top of my head. I like to get a -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. But I think -- 8 I think that this is going to -- excuse me, Bill. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's okay. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just think that 11 that's going to be one of the keys, before we can get too 12 far down the road. If the state law establishes -- 13 established the City having control in the ETJ, I mean, 14 we're just going to have to work out a buddy-gentlemen type 15 agreement with them, if we can. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I don't think what 17 you said is the law, personally. I think that -- I don't 18 think that the -- I think there is joint authority in the 19 ETJ, but I do not believe the City has ultimate authority in 20 the ETJ. That's my belief. But -- 21 MR. MOTLEY: Y'all making reference at all to 22 that common subdivision improvement plan that was passed, 23 and then kind of -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 25 MR. MOTLEY: -- disarmed, and then tried to 6-14-04 66 1 pass it again? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, that's part of it. 3 I mean, and I think the -- I mean, I think that it's good 4 business for us to have one set of rules in the ETJ, but 5 even beyond being good business, it's going to be the law -- 6 or it is the law; we just have some time to enact it, which 7 is 2006. But I think we need to get it done as soon as we 8 can. You know, but I'm in favor of, you know, the 9 resolution, but the only thing I would possibly change would 10 be that the representatives of the Commissioners Court -- I 11 think we should designate who they are, 'cause we've already 12 done that. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's fine. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I don't know that we 15 should designate -- really tell the City who they should 16 appoint to the committee. They can appoint whoever they 17 want. If it's the County Attorney and the City Manager, so 18 be it, but if they want it to be the mayor and the City 19 Councilman, so be it, too. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's fine. I have 21 no objection to either of those thoughts, Commissioner. And 22 my only reason for doing it today was, I do -- there is a 23 sense of urgency in that if this process that's underway on 24 behalf of the City gets to the City Council and it is 25 enacted, then that's kind of like shutting the gate after 6-14-04 67 1 the horses get out, as far as we're concerned. We're not 2 going to get back in. So, I think we need the opportunity 3 to talk about it in advance, and I don't believe it is 4 appropriate for Commissioners Court to stand in line in 5 front of the P & Z waiting its turn to talk. That's the 6 whole purpose of it. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree. I appreciate 8 your resolution. I think we do need to get something on 9 record to the City that we object to parts of the U.D.C. 10 that affect Kerr County, and not being consulted. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You may want to offer 12 an amendment to strike the two suggestions for the city. 13 You know, I'm cool with that; that's okay. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Letz, you and 15 Commissioner Nicholson have been working with the City on 16 the airport issues; is that correct? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Commissioner Williams. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Jonathan and I. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Where'd I get the idea that 21 you had gotten involved? 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We changed a month 23 or so ago. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Commissioner Letz 6-14-04 68 1 replaced me. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Okay. You know, 3 the airport is a major component of that entire situation, 4 so the thought occurs to me that possibly our designated 5 representatives should be Commissioners Letz and Nick -- and 6 Williams on the totality of those ETJ issues, as well as the 7 airport. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: No? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, I'm on it. I'm 11 staying on it. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- I think that 13 it's important to have either Williams or myself as a 14 representative, 'cause we are -- because of the airport 15 issue, but I don't see any reason to make a change. I think 16 Commissioner Baldwin and I started running with it. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Y'all have been working 18 specifically on the ETJ? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, okay. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't have a 22 problem. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: I stand corrected. I was not 24 aware of that. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And, as I noted in 6-14-04 69 1 the backup material, Commissioner Letz and I both referenced 2 the airport overlay zone in one of our recent meetings, and 3 we received some answers, but I don't think we received any 4 definitive answers, and we certainly didn't have any 5 opportunity to examine what was put before us or offer any 6 counter suggestions. So, I think it's -- as far as the 7 airport overlay zone is concerned, we can deal with that -- 8 he and I can deal with that in our airport meetings, and 9 Commissioners Letz and Baldwin can continue as they were 10 appointed before. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, let's approve this 12 thing and move on. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He's making some 14 suggested changes. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is it in English or 16 German? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not sure. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Depends if I can read it 19 or not. Be no change in the first part of the resolution. 20 It would be the "Now, therefore, be it resolved that the 21 Commissioners Court of Kerr County formally requests that 22 the City Council of the City of Kerrville designate 23 representatives to meet with Kerr County Commissioners Letz 24 and Baldwin for the purpose of proposing solutions to those 25 portions of the U.D.C. which appear to violate existing law 6-14-04 70 1 and/or interfere with existing rights and obligations of 2 Kerr County." 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What's funny about it 4 is, we have already sent one letter over there basically 5 saying this exact same thing. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What you struck is on 7 Line 2 of it. You're striking, "delegates City Manager and 8 City Attorney," and just substituting "designate 9 representatives of the City Council to meet with...," taking 10 out "appropriate representatives" and substituting 11 "Commissioners Letz and Baldwin," right? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct. I'll so move. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And my -- we might see 14 if old David could get an afternoon off and go with us 15 sometime, too. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: County Attorney -- 17 County Engineer had his hand up. 18 MR. JOHNSTON: It's not directly related, but 19 kind of a related item. I think the last Legislature passed 20 a statute that said that all buildings, houses and 21 commercial, in the counties have to meet the 2003 22 International Building Code. I don't know who -- who 23 enforces that. That's kind of another issue. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You do, but we don't pay 25 you for it. 6-14-04 71 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What I think we're 2 seeing here is sort of the tip of the iceberg. I think I 3 can see that there's a fundamental difference in the 4 philosophy of government of Kerr County compared to the 5 city, and it seems to me like Kerr County government usually 6 endorses the principle of limited government, not getting 7 involved in regulation of law and things that are -- are 8 unnecessary. And it seems to me like the City of Kerrville 9 is about 180 degrees out of phase with that kind of 10 thinking. So, we need to deal with these specific issues, 11 but when it comes to joint operations and budgeting and 12 those sort of things, I think there are more deep-set, 13 philosophical issues that we're going to have to address. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Good point, Commissioner. 15 Excellent point. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Did you move it, 17 or -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I moved it already. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll second it. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 21 approval of the resolution as modified. Any further 22 questions or discussion? All in favor of the motion, 23 signify by raising your right hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6-14-04 72 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Kathy, I have it 4 marked. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: I think probably the best 6 thing to do, why don't we take a recess until about a 7 quarter of? 8 (Recess taken from 10:35 a.m. to 10:45 a.m.) 9 - - - - - - - - - - 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's come back to 11 order, if we could, please, and reconvene the Commissioners 12 Court meeting scheduled for this date. The next item was a 13 timed item at 10:30. I apologize again for getting at it a 14 little late. Item Number 7, consider and discuss and take 15 appropriate action on revisions to the Intergovernmental 16 Agreement relating to Texas Community Development Program 17 and Texas Colonia Construction Fund awards between Kerr 18 County and the Upper Guadalupe River Authority. 19 Commissioner Williams? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I put this on 21 'cause about a month ago, Greg Etter, U.G.R.A. General 22 Manager, met with me and called to my attention the fact 23 that the current -- the proposed interlocal only made 24 reference to one phase of the project, and not the 25 subsequent grants that Kerr County had received, and which 6-14-04 73 1 U.G.R.A.'s partnering with us on this particular project. 2 So, Greg -- Greg, if you will come to the podium and help me 3 through this? 4 MR. ETTER: Yes, sir. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Greg called to my 6 attention what I just said, and there may have been a couple 7 other modest revisions, but I'll ask him to come before you 8 this morning just to highlight where we are with this, and 9 we'd like to get it -- the revised in front of you. The 10 reason why the original document wasn't signed was because 11 it was sent over to U.G.R.A. at a time when there was 12 significant changes underway or taking place, and this just 13 kind of fell through the cracks. When Greg picked it up, he 14 noted the deficiencies in the one that we adopted, and took 15 steps to try to get that rectified and get everything that 16 we are trying to do together, inclusive in one document. 17 Greg, if you will, if you'd like to enlighten the Court a 18 little bit, I'd appreciate it. 19 MR. ETTER: Yes, sir. That's a pretty good 20 summary. I view this hopefully as generally a housekeeping 21 matter. As Commissioner Williams said, there was an 22 agreement proposed by the County in February of last year 23 that was then sent over to U.G.R.A. It only addressed 24 Phase 2, and, as y'all know, there are Phases 2, 3, and 4 25 upcoming on the Kerrville South project. I think we have a 6-14-04 74 1 good working relationship on a day-to-day basis. I think we 2 all know what the, quote, business deal is, but I think we 3 do need a piece of paper that covers all of those phases. I 4 took a look at the document that covered Phase 2, and it 5 had -- as Commissioner Williams noted, it had quite a number 6 of holes in it. For example, it didn't even state what 7 amount of money U.G.R.A. was obligated to contribute. You 8 know, it had a lot of typos, a lot of ambiguities, in my 9 view. And what I did is took the liberty, after speaking 10 with Commissioner Williams, to go ahead and get our counsel 11 to draft up a draft document that would reflect the business 12 understanding that I think we're all on the same page on, 13 and clean up some of the ambiguities and make certain that 14 it covered all of the phases that are outstanding with 15 respect to the Kerrville South Wastewater Project. So, I've 16 done that; that's the document that I shared with 17 Commissioner Williams, and it looks to me as though you're 18 looking through it, so I believe it must be in your board 19 materials. It has been presented to the U.G.R.A. Board, and 20 I have authority from them for it to be signed in 21 substantially the same form by the president or vice 22 president of U.G.R.A. So, that's -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I noted in the backup 24 material that I had not had the opportunity to get it to the 25 County Attorney for his review, but if the Court doesn't 6-14-04 75 1 have an objection, I'd like to get it approved subject to 2 his review so that we can move forward and memorialize 3 everything that we're trying to get done. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Yours was a motion, was it 6 not, Commissioner Williams? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir, that was a 8 motion. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Buster -- Mr. Baldwin 10 recognized it immediately. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We've got a good 13 working thing going over here. We understand each other. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 15 approval of the agreement, subject to the approval of the 16 County Attorney. Any further question or discussion? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And authorize the 18 County Judge to sign same. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: And authorize the County Judge 20 to sign the same. Any further question or discussion? 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: This cleaning up the 22 contract doesn't obligate us for any additional funding in 23 any way? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, it -- no. What 25 it does is memorialize that which we have received and 6-14-04 76 1 U.G.R.A.'s obligation to the project at large. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or 3 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 4 your right hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Thank 9 you very much, Mr. Etter. We appreciate you being here 10 today. 11 MR. ETTER: Thank you, Judge. Appreciate the 12 opportunity, and appreciate the opportunity to work with 13 y'all on Kerrville South. It's a good project, and we'll go 14 forward with the contract. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thanks, Greg. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: The next item on the agenda 18 was a timed item for 10:45. We're catching up very slowly 19 here. Consider and discuss and take appropriate action on 20 request to lower the water level in Flat Rock Lake. Also, 21 discuss concerns for public safety and recreational fishing 22 at Flat Rock Lake due to storm debris and sediment buildup 23 in the lake. This item, as I say, was -- Item 8 was set for 24 10:45. Commissioner, Precinct 2, Commissioner Williams. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is -- kind of a 6-14-04 77 1 strange series of events took place, Judge. First, we got a 2 memorandum from Road and Bridge Department regarding the 3 request that they knew nothing about for lowering the lake 4 level, and I think they'd looked that over. I guess 5 everybody got it. I certainly had it, and I looked at it; 6 didn't know much about it, and -- and didn't know exactly 7 how to proceed. Then, all of a sudden, one day I get a 8 visit from -- from a gentleman named Mike Bell, and Mike 9 came in to talk to me a little bit about the condition of 10 the lake with respect to the shallowness of it, how the 11 sediment and gravel and so forth have built up, and the -- 12 and the debris in the lake, and how the fishing has 13 deteriorated and so forth. And, while Mike and I had talked 14 about how to get this on the agenda for the Court to discuss 15 and become aware, another gentleman showed up, and his name 16 is James Smith, and he represents the contractor who's doing 17 work for the City over at the park site -- what was the 18 state park on the other side of Flat Rock Lake. 19 And, so, after talking to all these 20 gentlemen, I said, "Fine, we'll put this on the agenda." I 21 certainly want to hear the concerns Mike Bell has about the 22 lake in general. We're also here to talk about Mr. Smith's 23 contract with the City with respect to lowering the lake and 24 doing some -- some repair work over on their side adjacent 25 to the park. Needless to say, whatever work took place from 6-14-04 78 1 the date that Mr. Smith got here, which is after they had 2 started work, and today probably will have to be done over, 3 'cause the river took care of what the river takes care of, 4 like no one else can do. So, why don't we hear first from 5 Mike Bell, 'cause he came to me first. And, Mike, tell the 6 Court your concerns about the lake itself, and then we'll 7 deal with Mr. Smith's request for lowering the lake. 8 MR. BELL: Gentlemen -- 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Come forward to the podium, if 10 you would, please. Give your name and address to the 11 reporter. 12 MR. BELL: Thank you, Judge. Mike Bell. My 13 address is 1708 Broadway here in Kerrville. Main thing is, 14 gentlemen, is the lake is silting in, filling in. We -- I 15 say "we." In 1989, the State decided to lower that lake, 16 and did so, and they done it in the month of February, which 17 is -- for us fishermen, is right in the middle of the -- 18 beginning of the spawn. And they lowered it for a fairly 19 long time, and then -- I don't know whether they run out of 20 contract money or what, but they -- they brought the lake 21 back up in April, then decided to go ahead and finish the 22 fishing dock for the state park in May, and so they lowered 23 it again. That killed two spawns. While the lake was down, 24 I observed several people down there zinging the fish out of 25 the lake, and which is very much against the law. But, as 6-14-04 79 1 we all know, the wardens have their job cut out for them 2 here. They've got an awful large area and a very -- very 3 limited staff. 4 What I would really like to see is, find some 5 way of maybe getting the sand and gravel people or somebody 6 like that interested in cleaning that lake out, because 7 there's still a lot of gravel and stuff in there that could 8 be reused. But mainly, main thing is -- is clean the lake 9 out. Mainly, you'll have to drain it to do that. That's 10 where me and Mr. Smith may see eye-to-eye on that, on 11 draining the lake. Make some -- make some arrangements to 12 clean it out. One of the main things that's a real -- as 13 far as we're all concerned, is an eyesore, is when they 14 built the Third Creek walk bridge, those two tubes are still 15 out in the middle of Flat Rock. It's been almost two years 16 now, and this would allow the County to go out and retrieve 17 them, or whoever -- whoever has the contract to go out and 18 retrieve those two, and maybe put the walk bridge back in, 19 if y'all see fit to put that back in. 20 There was a time when you could go to that 21 lake, and -- and it may take you all day, but you could 22 catch pretty well a limit of fish. Which we hold Wednesday 23 night tournaments on that lake, not every Wednesday night, 24 but every third Wednesday. We have them at Flat Rock, 25 U.G.R.A., and Ingram, and we rotate those out so we don't 6-14-04 80 1 pound -- you know, pound severely one lake. We had 21 2 fishermen on that lake for three hours, which comes to about 3 63 hours. There were four fish caught, and only two of them 4 were weighers. And we've got some pretty good old boys in 5 our fishing group that -- they have won lots of tournaments 6 and stuff, and they're -- I mean, they're no rookie. But, 7 you know, it's very -- very bad as far as fishing conditions 8 go. It's dangerous for the recreational people. I pulled I 9 don't know how many off of rock piles and stuff like that, 10 that have been developed during the floods. And it took -- 11 I don't think it's -- as far as my research goes, I don't 12 think it's ever been cleaned out, so it would take that long 13 to get this bad again. And, so, if we cleaned it out, it 14 would be for the betterment of the county, the new city park 15 over there, and all the residents. And, basically, 16 that's -- that's what I have to say. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We could get the State 18 to come along and stock it with some great fish, and then 19 don't allow motors on it, huh? 20 MR. BELL: Doesn't matter to us. We -- we 21 don't care if you don't, as long -- see, we had that out 22 with the City for U.G.R.A. It is not feasible for me to 23 take my 200-horse motor off my boat in order to fish the 24 lake. If we could get it worded like the City has it worded 25 for U.G.R.A., that would be probably the way to go. And if 6-14-04 81 1 you want to, you know, knock out all combustible engines, 2 that -- that's fine with us. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Actually, I was just 4 kind of joking, see if could I get you riled up, but -- 5 MR. BELL: No, sir, but you're -- the main 6 reason -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think it's a 8 wonderful idea. 9 MR. BELL: The main reason you're not going 10 to get a rile out of me is because I went through the jet 11 skis this past weekend, and -- and you're not going to get 12 an argument out of me. It's -- that lake is for jet skiers 13 and pleasure boaters. If you don't know where to run, don't 14 run. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I agree. 16 MR. BELL: Because it is very dangerous. 17 We've got -- I really like to save the stumps for cover, but 18 there are stumps that are no -- no more than 4 inches below 19 the surface of the water. There is also huge rocks and rock 20 piles that are no more than 1 foot below the water. If a 21 jet skier running along there at 40 mile-an-hour falls off, 22 he's going to go a whole lot deeper than a foot. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mike generously 24 offered to take me for a ride on Flat Rock Lake to see all 25 this firsthand, and I'm going to do that. The flood kind of 6-14-04 82 1 postponed -- 2 MR. BELL: Flood kind of knocked us off of 3 that. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- our departure from 5 the boat ramp. But I'm glad to hear the Commissioner say 6 what he said a minute ago, because people on -- that live on 7 the Bandera Highway side have talked to me over and over 8 again -- 9 MR. BELL: Yes, sir. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- about how their 11 bulkheads and their property's eroding from wave action 12 created by power boats who don't have a lot of respect for 13 people's property, so that's something we need somehow to 14 deal with. 15 MR. BELL: Well, there's so many people out 16 there that don't have respect for other people on the water 17 either, so -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, that's very 19 true. 20 MR. BELL: And that lake is really -- I 21 think, myself, that that lake is too small to be running 22 20-foot outboards up and down that lake several times in a 23 row. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 25 MR. BELL: You just -- you get a -- you get 6-14-04 83 1 soil erosion, plus you don't make any friends doing that, 2 either. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I've got some 4 information I'm beginning to assemble on how -- how we might 5 be able to improve it. All it takes is money. 6 MR. BELL: Yes, sir. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right now, we don't 8 have that money. We'll have to figure out whether or not we 9 can find that money to do something about the lake in 10 general. I would like to suggest to the Court, though, that 11 perhaps we can engage our Road and Bridge Department to 12 figure out a way to get those tubes out of the water. They 13 have been there now two years-plus, going on three years. 14 MR. BELL: Yes, sir. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And they are an 16 eyesore. They are a safety risk, hazard, and they need to 17 be taken out of the water, and they're our property. So, 18 probably the sooner we get them out of the water, County 19 Engineer, the better. So, I'm just kind of running this by 20 you so you hear it, and maybe we can figure out a way to do 21 that. Thank you, Mike. Appreciate you coming. 22 MR. BELL: I'd like to -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Part of this issue 24 now -- 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I've got one 6-14-04 84 1 question for Mr. Bell. 2 MR. BELL: Yes, sir? 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Some of my neighbors 4 have inquired about draining Ingram Lake and cleaning it up. 5 It's been several years since we did that, and they -- they 6 suggested that January-February was a good time to do that. 7 MR. BELL: Well, see -- 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I didn't ask them 9 that, but I assume it's got to do with recreational use? 10 MR. BELL: Yes, sir. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: In your opinion, if 12 you're going to clean up a lake and drain it, when's the 13 best time of year to do it? 14 MR. BELL: Well, in Flat Rock's condition it 15 is right now, any time of year would be great, because what 16 we're going to do is start anew. It's going to take a lot 17 of phone calls to get, number one, Jesse James, our -- our 18 regional biologist, back up here to get another shocking 19 survey done, because that's what they go by; the amount of 20 fish to put in is by a shocking survey. Then you're going 21 to have to contact a lot of -- like, the people at Athens, 22 that hatchery at Athens, because we do not -- we no longer 23 have a hatchery; that's a research center out there. So, we 24 have a hatchery outside of Athens that services our area 25 and -- and points south. We got 53 brooder bass at one time 6-14-04 85 1 from the federal facility down at -- I think it's Uvalde, I 2 believe. And, of course, that was put in the newspapers, so 3 every -- everybody and his brother was out there trying to 4 catch them 50 little old fish. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Mike, what about in lakes 6 where there's a reasonable fish census? What's the best 7 time to -- 8 MR. BELL: Your best time actually would 9 probably be in the middle of the dead of summer, which is 10 going to really -- your people are really going to scream, 11 because that's -- we know it as a ski lake. The fishing 12 community knows it as a ski lake, and we only fish that lake 13 a certain amount of the time, and then we disperse from that 14 lake because of the skiers and stuff like that. We have had 15 tournaments where jet skiers have run up into other boats 16 because of lack of control. This kid just literally come 17 right up in one of the participant's boats. Luckily, it 18 wasn't running very fast and didn't tear up a lot of 19 equipment, but the guy that was fishing had his little girl 20 with him, and it knocked her down, and it was all we could 21 do to get that skier out of there alive, because daddy was 22 fixing to come unglued. So -- 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Mike, what's your 24 opinion of what kind of condition Lake Ingram is in? 25 MR. BELL: Ingram is in -- as far as fishing 6-14-04 86 1 goes, Ingram's not too bad. We just -- in fact, that was 2 the last place we went before the flood, and we had one 3 fisherman that -- that weighed in 7 pounds, and that was in 4 two fish. So -- and we had several -- we had, like, I think 5 12 or 13 fish weighed in, so, that's -- that's really -- our 6 top lake, of course, is U.G.R.A. We spent a lot of time 7 building those brush piles and stuff before the lake came 8 up, and -- and even the telephone company helped us with 9 that with cable to tie it off where it doesn't, you know, 10 disperse and go downstream. So -- 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mike. 12 MR. BELL: Thank you, sir. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We appreciate you 14 coming before the Court. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Appreciate it, Mr. Bell. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Then came Mr. Smith, 17 and Mr. Smith has a project going on behalf of the City of 18 Kerrville and its new park, and his request is to lower the 19 lake. So, I invited Mr. Smith to be here today, and he has 20 provided the basic plan, which is in your packet. And he 21 also provided me a copy of -- at my request, a copy of the 22 permit to dig in the river. I have to tell you gentlemen, I 23 misplaced it, but he did provide it for me, and Kathy made 24 me a copy of it, but I couldn't put my finger on it today. 25 Mr. Smith, why don't you come tell us about your project? 6-14-04 87 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Give your name for the 2 reporter. 3 MR. SMITH: Okay. James Smith. I'm from Del 4 Rio, Texas. I'm a superintendent for Sundown Construction, 5 which is doing -- we're reviving the lakeshore in the state 6 park, and what we're doing is, we got to dig down to flat 7 ground -- 8 MR. BELL: Bedrock? 9 MR. SMITH: Well, not really bedrock. It's 10 more of a sandstone-type rock. Anyway, we're going to set 11 in 1,500-pound rocks, square boulders, and we're just going 12 to put grass and trees, and we're going to try to restore 13 the bank that's washed away. 'Cause if you got maybe one or 14 two more floods, you're not going to have no trees in the 15 state park. I don't know if any of y'all have been out 16 there to look at it. Just -- the actual roots and stuff are 17 sticking out of the bank. You're fixing to lose everything 18 in the state park, trees-wise. We had one big flood just -- 19 what, last week? It come up 18 and a half feet. I had 20 excavated more than probably 8 foot in -- in the park there, 21 and I got over 9 foot of gravel filled back in, so I got 22 three weeks of work wiped out in one day. So, the lake is 23 really filling in. Where I'm working at, a foot and a half, 24 2 foot of water is all you got there. The rest of it's 25 gravel for quite a ways. 6-14-04 88 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And so you want to 2 lower the lake? 3 MR. SMITH: Yes, sir. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How are you going to 5 do that? 6 MR. SMITH: Well, we only got, like, a 7 30-inch outlet. It's going to take a long time for that, if 8 you even open up -- it's just got, like, a plug in it. If 9 you open that up, it's going to take probably a couple 10 months even to lower it down a couple feet. So, there's 11 baffles, pumps can be put on the dam to increase the flow of 12 water. I mean, you're not going to increase it like a 13 flood, because it has no outlet but a 30-inch pipe. It goes 14 through there, and the only way to do that is either baffle 15 it over with some 12-inch or bigger pipe, or set some pumps 16 out there and pump the water over the dam. Has anybody been 17 to the dam? I went there this morning. It's got some 18 pretty big cracks in that dam. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pardon me? 20 MR. SMITH: They've got some pretty big 21 cracks in that dam. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We'll talk about that 23 another day. 24 MR. SMITH: Yes, sir. But, I mean, what I'm 25 saying is -- I'm just requesting it so I can do my job. I 6-14-04 89 1 mean, it's a lot easier than trying to pump water around the 2 lake. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How -- who's going to pay 4 for -- 5 MR. SMITH: Well, it looks like I am -- my 6 contractor is, because we're trying to perform a job. I 7 mean, and I'll probably put the manpower in to lower the 8 lake. I just got to get permission from you to do it. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: You say you have a -- a permit 11 from the state of Texas? 12 MR. SMITH: Yes, sir. Yes, sir. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Does that include lowering the 14 level of that impoundment? 15 MR. SMITH: I really don't know that. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't think -- 17 MR. SMITH: Mine only shows just for digging 18 in the lake. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 20 MR. SMITH: I've talked to everybody, and the 21 way that they told me, even the State, y'all are the ones 22 that says if it's lowered or not, not them. They have 23 control of digging in the lake, Corps of Engineers. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I believe his permit 25 was to dig and remove sediment and stuff of that nature. 6-14-04 90 1 JUDGE TINLEY: What effect, if any, in your 2 opinion, would -- would discharging this amount of water 3 downstream have on downstream landowners or users? 4 MR. SMITH: You're really not going to 5 discharge that much water out of it. I mean, you're talking 6 about maybe a third of a flood of water going down through 7 there. I mean, maybe not even that much. What you're going 8 to get out of there, even with 12-inch pumps, are not even 9 going to match not even a quarter of what you get in a 10 flood. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: So, negligible or no effect to 12 downstream owners? 13 MR. SMITH: Only when you backfill, is where 14 you're going to -- you're going to lower the stream of your 15 water. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't know if you 17 know this or not. Are there any permitted water rights 18 users who pull out of Flat Rock, or do they pull it below 19 Flat Rock? 20 MR. SMITH: I think they pull it below Flat 21 Rock. I really don't know. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you know, Mike? 23 MR. BELL: Yes, sir, there's one person that 24 is allowed to pull out of that lake, and that's Mr. Meek -- 25 or used to -- Carl would pull out for irrigation across the 6-14-04 91 1 road over there. But since the rains have come, I don't 2 see -- his pump's not even down there any more. He had a 3 big diesel pump down there, and it's not even down there any 4 more. So -- 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I do have another 6 question about the drawing that you gave us, Mr. Smith. How 7 -- you're going to go all the way down to what you call 8 bedrock or whatever, something like that. 9 MR. SMITH: It's the floor of the lake. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How high are these 11 big blocks going to be, and how high up are they going to 12 be? Are they going to be above the surface of the water, 13 ultimately? 14 MR. SMITH: No, they're going to be 1 foot -- 15 1 foot above the ground, whatever the floor -- the ground of 16 the park is, so it might be 2 foot out of the water. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They may be 2 feet 18 out of the water? 19 MR. SMITH: It depends on where the -- where 20 the bank is. It's going to be at the same heighth as the 21 bank is. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are there going to be 23 appropriate warnings for boaters? 24 MR. SMITH: Yes, it will have a dock there. 25 I mean, the dock is going to be there, too; we're going to 6-14-04 92 1 re -- the dock's unusable right now. It's been unusable for 2 quite a while. 3 MR. BELL: Well, the -- the actual boating 4 dock is nonexistent, and where y'all are working there, the 5 only thing that is still existent is the launch ramp area. 6 I noticed y'all were cleaning that out, too, which that'll 7 definitely be a plus for people coming into the area for 8 weekend recreation. 9 MR. SMITH: I was told at one time you could 10 go right there at the boat dock and jump in, and you 11 couldn't touch the bottom, put your finger up. Now you can 12 walk out there and the water's that deep. 13 MR. BELL: That's true. 14 MR. SMITH: Five feet out. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How far out -- I mean, if 16 I understand it, you're basically digging down through all 17 the gravel and junk next to the shoreline, putting in big 18 rocks and -- basically, foundation. How deep is it going to 19 be next to the rocks when you leave? I mean, so you're 20 basically making, like, a channel, right? 21 MR. SMITH: Yeah. Well, it shows it in 22 the -- I have a better plan, if y'all want to view my actual 23 construction plan. What I sent y'all was -- just shows 24 what's going to be done there. That's what it's supposed to 25 look like. 6-14-04 93 1 JUDGE TINLEY: 9 feet. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: About 9 feet. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll, if you're going off of 4 9,6, base of 8,7, it's going to be about 9 feet. 5 MR. SMITH: If you open that a little bit 6 more, it will show you the river side. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Base of 8,7, and it would 10 indicate that this is -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right here, 9,3. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, okay. 13 (Discussion off the record.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: 9,6 at the top is what is 15 indicated, just over 9,5 -- yeah. Yeah. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And you're going to 17 put in these anchor buoy floats? 18 MR. SMITH: Them are already in there; that's 19 what got destroyed by the flood, them buoys out there. What 20 that is, it's going to be removed out there, 'cause that's 21 called a cabidian (sic) barrier, keeps the waves from coming 22 in, washing out all the material while we're working there. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How long do you 24 anticipate the lake level would have to be reduced? 25 MR. SMITH: I'm going to say probably about 6-14-04 94 1 -- time -- I'm going to say about two months at the most. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: When you put the 3 plug back in to fill the lake back up, does that mean 4 there's no water flowing downstream? 5 MR. SMITH: No, you have to keep a flow of 6 water by -- by the state law and federal law. You have to 7 have either pumps or something pumping water over that dam 8 as it fills back up. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I think the minimum is, what, 10 25 cubic feet per second? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess my -- my only 12 concern -- I mean, it seems like it's certainly worthwhile, 13 and we support doing it. And I know you don't have any 14 control -- or I guess you're on-site right now. The timing 15 is not ideal. Because, I mean, granted, we've had rains 16 recently. This is -- if you lower it two months, it's going 17 to put us in the middle of August, early September, which is 18 our -- probably not counting floods, our lowest flow level 19 in that river, so we're going to be at the -- likely at the 20 minimum flow, which is darn near dry in my part of the 21 county, for the late summer. And I don't know if there's 22 any -- anything we can do about that, but -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Bill, Mr. Hufstedler's 24 in the audience that was a manager for the state park, and 25 is now a manager for the city park. And how he got in the 6-14-04 95 1 building, got by security, I don't know, but nevertheless, 2 he's in here. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why don't we invite 4 him to talk? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think he may have 6 some information about this whole thing. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Smith. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Always have a hard 9 time getting him to talk. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Hufstedler? 11 MR. HUFSTEDLER: Yes. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He came carrying maps. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, no. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It was your idea, 15 now, remember. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Give your name, please. 17 MR. HUFSTEDLER: Tim Hufstedler. I'm the 18 Park Superintendent at Kerrville Schreiner Park. And -- 19 well, tell me kind of what questions you have. I mean, I do 20 have quite a bit of experience in working out there. 21 Previously, the one that they were talking about, the 22 project in '89 when we lowered the lake, at that point, the 23 lake was never fully drained. Even during that time, which 24 it was a particularly dry year, it never went dry by any 25 stretch of the imagination. The closer you get to the dam, 6-14-04 96 1 the deeper it is. And the place where, for instance, that 2 they were talking about where Meek used to have his intake, 3 that thing was never out of the water. It wasn't even close 4 to being out of the water during that particular project. 5 The -- the reason that we want to make sure that this one is 6 -- is done right is, like they're talking, the previous 7 project did not use material of a substantial size to 8 withstand flooding. They used upwards of 200-pound rocks, 9 which I tried to tell them were not sufficient, and he said 10 his hydrologist said that was fine. I said his hydrologist 11 has never been here when the Guadalupe floods. And now that 12 the minimum size is 1,500 pounds, now at least we've got a 13 chance of retaining. 14 This project will allow us, from the 15 low-water crossing almost 600 feet downstream, to regain 16 about 23 feet of lost shoreline and riverbank. When I came 17 here in March of '81, the riverbank was about 33 feet out 18 from where it is now, so this will -- this will get us about 19 two-thirds of it back, or roughly so. And the blocks that 20 he's talking about sticking up just above the water should 21 at least give us a chance to retain that. Right now, no one 22 can use the area. It's just so much flood debris and gravel 23 down there that, you know, there just -- there's no way to 24 launch a boat; there's no way to -- to swim or really 25 anything. And one of the reasons that U.S. Fish and 6-14-04 97 1 Wildlife Service insisted that it be done this time of year 2 was precisely what he was talking about. You want to avoid 3 the -- the issue of doing things in February, when the -- a 4 lot of the fish are doing their spawning, and so that was 5 controlled by U.S. Fish and Wildlife and the Army Corps of 6 Engineers, as far as issuing this permit to proceed. Other 7 questions? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question I have -- this 9 is probably a little bit bigger scope, but how would we go 10 about cleaning out that lake? I mean, to really do a major 11 cleanout of it, where do you -- I mean, I presume it would 12 be, you know, a -- hopefully a federal, state, with the City 13 and the County helping a little bit to get it done. But 14 where do you -- how do you get something like that started? 15 MR. HUFSTEDLER: Well, the time before we 16 only cleaned out along what was then the state park, and 17 just went in on the various boat ramps with caterpillars and 18 tracked vehicles, and they just started removing a lot of 19 debris. I would assume that the same process would -- would 20 be involved throughout its length. There is a tremendous 21 amount of -- of flood debris material in that thing. And, 22 as a couple of the other people told you, when it was a 23 state park, we used to have to go out there almost routinely 24 and help people get back into shore when they damaged their 25 motors, or in some cases almost destroyed the bottom of the 6-14-04 98 1 boat, hitting rock piles and submerged logs and things like 2 that. It's -- as far as the whole scope of the entire 3 project, I'm really not -- I don't have enough information 4 to tell you how we would go about that, other than it would 5 just have to be with -- with heavy equipment. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Commissioner, I have 7 some material that was forwarded to me; I've got it on my 8 desk. I haven't had a chance to look at it too seriously; 9 just got it last week, but there are at least a couple ways 10 I know about, and maybe more. There's dredging equipment 11 which you can rent, borrow, or whatever, at major expense. 12 I do recall after one flood, when U.G.R.A. was still in 13 control of the water treatment plant on what was then 14 U.G.R.A. Lake, they cleaned out around the -- the water 15 intake and behind the dam, and they did it to get rid of 16 silt and so forth. They did it with drag line. And that 17 was a time-consuming process, but it was done that way, so 18 there may be other ways. But I'm going to investigate a 19 little further and come back to court hopefully with some 20 ideas. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Hufstedler, in your many 23 years experience out there, has there been similar shoreline 24 erosion on the north side adjacent to the County's Flat Rock 25 Lake Park? 6-14-04 99 1 MR. HUFSTEDLER: It does not appear that the 2 erosion has been as severe, no, sir. There has been some. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 4 MR. HUFSTEDLER: I mean, we can tell -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: You've indicated on the south 6 side there, there's approximately a total of 33 feet, I 7 believe you mentioned? 8 MR. HUFSTEDLER: Yes, sir. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: What would you estimate on the 10 north side adjacent to Flat Rock Lake Park? 11 MR. HUFSTEDLER: Probably on the order of 6 12 to 8 feet. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. What about the deposit 14 of -- of debris and -- and materials from -- from upstream, 15 adjacent to the north side? 16 MR. HUFSTEDLER: The only place that I've 17 noticed a significant change is almost at the end of what we 18 refer to as the county park, down closer to the area of Fish 19 Island, where it's just -- I mean, it's just -- it's dry 20 ground now in areas that people used to take their boats out 21 behind it. So, the area down there has a tremendous amount 22 of debris. One of the things that really -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Between Fish Island and the 24 north side of -- 25 MR. HUFSTEDLER: Yes, sir. 6-14-04 100 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 2 MR. HUFSTEDLER: I mean, actually, I would 3 really kind of refer that question back to people like Mike 4 Bell, who are out there in boats all the time. We're not. 5 Or U.G.R.A., when they get on the lake and do water 6 sampling; I think they would be more knowledgeable about 7 that. The biggest change that we saw of -- of stream flow 8 occurred after the big bridge went up, and we knew that 9 there would be some changes. But people who have been 10 around here a long time tell me that that really changed the 11 flow of where the water came, and, of course, that low-water 12 crossing causes a lot of back up of debris. And this last 13 time, it was -- eye witnesses said that there were backups 14 of maybe 5 feet high before it broke over the top of that 15 low-water crossing. So, there are a lot of things that have 16 changed the character and the nature of the river flow. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have just one more, I 18 guess, comment. And I don't -- you know, I don't have any 19 problem with lowering the level, I don't think. However, I 20 think I may have a problem with pulling the plug, 'cause 21 then I can see -- to use that 30 inches, because I don't 22 know -- you know, if that hasn't been done in a long time, 23 I'd sure hate to get something in there that would create a 24 problem down the road. So, I would much rather use the pump 25 option, even though -- that's just the option I would 6-14-04 101 1 prefer. Pump over the top of the dam, as opposed to try to 2 pull that plug. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Isn't that what 4 you're proposing, Mr. Smith? 5 MR. SMITH: Yes. But I don't know whether I 6 can get a big enough pump in there to pump that much water. 7 You're talking about a big -- big -- 8 MR. BELL: The way we did it last time is we 9 took two 12-inch flex pipes, and then you put them in the 10 water, put a cap over them, pull them over the dam, and 11 that's how we drained it the last time down to the level of 12 where the door is on the plug. Because the plug at that 13 time was pretty well silted in and froze solid. You 14 couldn't even -- 15 MR. SMITH: Probably still is. 16 MR. BELL: And it probably is now because of 17 the floods we've had since then. But it took two 12-inch to 18 pull it down to the level where we could clean out the door, 19 and then we lifted the door and -- and left the 12-inches 20 running, and finally pulled it down far enough where the -- 21 the -- yeah, where the state guys could go in there and put 22 that dock in -- that fishing dock in. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Sounds to me like you're going 24 to have to open that gate or the plug, whichever you want to 25 call it, to really be able to effectively accomplish what 6-14-04 102 1 you're trying to accomplish. Is that correct, Mr. Smith? 2 MR. SMITH: No, he says that -- I wasn't here 3 when they drained it the first time. He was. 4 MR. BELL: No -- well, I don't know what the 5 elevation of the bottom of the lake would be between the dam 6 and the state park deal there. It may be that you could 7 use -- just use those two 12's to pull it down just low 8 enough where they could get in there and do their work. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I just -- my only 10 concern -- I mean, and I don't want to say you can't pull 11 the -- or raise the door, however it is -- I have no idea 12 what is even there. I just am worried about doing something 13 like that without knowing what we're getting into. So, to 14 me, I'd rather see us go with the pump route, and then, 15 once -- if it gets low enough we can see what's up there, 16 then maybe we -- you know. 17 MR. BELL: Well, see, you can shut those 18 tubes off at any time, too. 19 MR. SMITH: Right, mm-hmm. 20 MR. BELL: And that's a more efficient way of 21 doing it; you don't have to have people out there watching 22 it all the time, and -- and a motorized pump running all the 23 time. It's just gravity-fed. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just siphon it over the 25 top. 6-14-04 103 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think I agree with 2 Commissioner Letz, because if -- instead of messing around 3 with that gate or plug or whatever it is, there are other 4 liability issues, and if something goes wrong, who's going 5 to fix it? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. That's what I -- 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The last time -- I'm 8 told the last time Ingram Lake was drained, they did pull 9 the plug. And I'm wondering if Mr. Odom has any advice for 10 us on -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He does. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- on how that -- 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll bet he does. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He's got a smile on 15 his face. Look at that. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: I get the impression 17 Mr. Hufstedler's glad to get out of there. 18 MR. ODOM: I'll let him take my place up 19 here. When we pulled that last over at Ingram, it was a 20 butane -- um, tank. And my understanding -- I've been 21 talking to Doug, who was involved in it, and he is of the 22 opinion that it's probably another plug. But it used to be 23 a gate, but something happened -- and I listened and hear a 24 gate. A gate or a valve or something we found back behind; 25 it never was put in. Or -- or adapted in some way. So, we 6-14-04 104 1 think there's a plug. Can you deal with it? I don't know. 2 I did talk to Ray Lynch about a diver. We had to have 3 divers at Ingram, and he told me that he was just about out 4 of divers. He didn't know where he was going to get one; 5 there's not hardly any in Ingram. So, you need divers to go 6 out there and take a look at it. I'm not very good at 7 snorkeling; 250 pounds sinks real fast. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're certified, aren't 9 you? 10 MR. ODOM: That was a long time ago. Just 11 'cause I still carry the card doesn't mean I float any more. 12 That was in younger days. But those are the things you'd 13 have to look at, if we could even get to it. To -- or the 14 gentleman -- Mr. Smith get to it. I understand that 15 something out front there -- there's not bedrock; there is 16 just soil that is very deep around the dam. We couldn't dig 17 around the dam; we had to stay about 100, 150 foot back from 18 that dam at Ingram so we could keep the seal on it. And 19 that -- and then there needs to be a permit, is my 20 understanding, is what we had to have from T.N.R.C.C., which 21 is called something else now, and I think you need to do 22 that. Austin would have to come down, certainly, if that 23 plug is pulled, to look at the dam and inspect it. I -- 24 it's only been done one time, and that was Jerry Menafee, I 25 think. So, we don't have much data on it. I had more data 6-14-04 105 1 on Ingram because of Ray Lynch, as a kid, remembered all of 2 it before. But we would need some divers, and I would say 3 you'd look at it, see if we could grab hold of -- of a 4 ballast or the gate; I don't have the slightest idea. I've 5 been out there to look, but I couldn't -- I really don't 6 know. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd recommend that we 8 bypass that option and go with the syphoning option. Seems 9 a lot safer to me. And, you know, I think if we need the 10 permits or if you need to get the permits, you know -- 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I believe 12 they're in possession of permits. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's for construction. 14 I don't know if you need a permit to lower the level. Your 15 comments were that we had the authority? 16 MR. SMITH: Yes. That's -- 17 MR. ODOM: And, you know, we don't -- as far 18 as I know, I don't have any profiles to see. We had some 19 profiles we found on Ingram, and I could go from that point 20 to see if there was a hardpan that you could get on. My 21 understanding, out toward the deep part, there's not much of 22 hardpan at all. It's just -- it's siltation, and it's very 23 deep, and I don't know how you get in and out. It's a 24 question of just doing it. How do you get in and out? 25 Where do you take the material? I had a very easy job, 6-14-04 106 1 because it was across the street at Ingram there in that 2 hole. You know, I've been -- I don't know where I would 3 take this. And then it would tie up your trucking and your 4 -- it would be a big project. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think we -- I 6 mean, at some point, I think we need to address cleaning out 7 the lake, but right now, probably talk about lowering the 8 level so that Mr. Smith's company -- 9 MR. ODOM: I don't have an answer for the 10 gentleman. I would assume there's a propane bottle put up 11 there to plug that hole. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's something like 13 that, I remember. I have one more question for 14 Mr. Hufstedler. 15 MR. HUFSTEDLER: Yes, sir? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I know if you -- and 17 this is a state question. Oh my god, he's got a gun. This 18 is a state-type question. I know that if you change the 19 course of the water, you have to get permission and permits 20 and all those kinds of things. They don't like that. But 21 do we -- does the County have the authority to regulate the 22 level? 23 MR. HUFSTEDLER: Provided -- and this 24 information came from the successor of T.N.R.C.C., the Texas 25 Commission on Environmental Quality. We had the Water 6-14-04 107 1 Master come up, met in my office with Mr. Smith, and he said 2 as long as the County does not stop the flow of water -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 4 MR. HUFSTEDLER: -- then you're okay. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would move, Judge, 7 that we permit Mr. Smith's construction company to use the 8 siphon method and lower the level of Flat Rock Lake 9 sufficient to accommodate the job at Kerrville Schreiner 10 Park. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: So long as the flow of water 12 does not fall below state minimum? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can we have some 16 way -- can we have the County Engineer just kind of keep an 17 eye on the thing for -- for funsies? Keep us out of jail? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that's a good 19 idea. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll second your -- your 21 motion, but I agree -- to follow up on that a little bit, 22 I'd like to more than keep an eye. When this level gets 23 down, I would really encourage Road and Bridge to go out 24 there and do some cursory inspection so we -- if we start 25 developing a plan for doing some more long-term cleanouts. 6-14-04 108 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Smith? 2 MR. SMITH: Yes, I'd like to work with them. 3 I mean, I'd rather have them there with me while I'm doing 4 it. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, he's sitting 6 right there in front of you. 7 MR. ODOM: May I -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: You may. 9 MR. ODOM: To keep that flow going, I -- my 10 Aggie brain thinking here -- I'm thinking you're going to 11 have to keep that plug at a certain point. With that 12 siphon, you're going to stop, and then it's got to fill up. 13 How do you get flow out of that? Maybe you don't take as 14 many siphons, maybe keep some flow, but that flow's going to 15 be minimum. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a good point, 17 Leonard. 18 MR. ODOM: And so 30 inches seems to be that 19 flow level, I would assume. At least we would be meeting 20 something there. So, I don't -- I think Mr. Smith needs to 21 pull the plug, if I'm doing that. But if we're involved in 22 it, I don't want to -- I don't want to spend time in the 23 Sheriff's jail. I'd say that. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, you're saying that to 25 regulate flow in future, we need to figure out if we -- 6-14-04 109 1 MR. ODOM: At some point, you've got to stop. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The gate's going to be 3 the only way to let water -- 4 MR. ODOM: Right. Sometime, you've got to 5 stop it at some point, let it fill up, unless there's a 6 flood. He may have an opportunity in July and August not to 7 have to worry about that; I don't know. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or June. No, I think 9 your point's valid. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, why don't I amend 12 the motion, then, to enable the level of the lake to be 13 reduced, while protecting the flow. To take whatever steps 14 necessary to lower the lake while protecting the flow in 15 accordance with state regulations? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My second stands on the 17 amended motion. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any further question or 19 discussion on the motion as amended? All in favor of the 20 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Thank 25 you, gentlemen. We appreciate you being here and 6-14-04 110 1 participating. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll call you, Mike. 3 MR. BELL: Okay. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Williams can find 5 out where all that buildup is over on our side. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Stick a finger in 7 that dike, see where that... 8 JUDGE TINLEY: The next item is a timed item 9 for 11:15 this morning, Item 9, consider and discuss 10 allowing constable to apply for and seek grant funding from 11 all sources to acquire mobile video/audio camera system, 12 ability to apply for various grants. Constable Garza, thank 13 you. 14 MR. GARZA: Good morning, gentlemen. Thank 15 you for having me here. Reason for being here is, on the 16 block grant that I'm trying to seek for funding for video 17 cameras, I've had discussions over the phone, the Homeland 18 Security or Department of Justice personnel, with them, and 19 from what we've got -- the conversations, I don't meet the 20 criteria for -- our departments do not meet the -- the steps 21 needed to apply for that grant. And also, much of the funds 22 have basically already been used up, and they're basically 23 going to larger departments. I'm here today to ask if I can 24 be allowed to seek funding from the -- any type of -- of 25 organization that I could apply for. I've applied -- the 6-14-04 111 1 Department of Public Safety grants that I applied for that 2 the Judge signed, I got a response last week that -- of 3 course, that was over -- expired, but I went ahead and 4 applied for it, and they called me back and said that that 5 grant is no longer available, those funds. They referred me 6 to the governor's office. There is a -- I haven't had a 7 response yet, but some funds may be available through the 8 governor's office for this. I just feel that I -- I would 9 love to have the Court allow me to seek funding wherever 10 possible to apply, and let the chief executive officer of 11 the -- County Judge sign so I could proceed with some of 12 these applications. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Angel, the reason that I 14 -- I think I was the one that put that caveat on it the last 15 time. 16 MR. GARZA: Yes. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd really rather delay 18 any action on this until after our preliminary budget 19 workshop, because I think that there are going to be some 20 other items where the County's likely to go to local 21 foundations for some significant grants, and I think we need 22 to weigh your request against some of these others and kind 23 of have a game plan. There's some -- in talking -- I've 24 talked with Bill Amerine and the Sheriff a little bit. 25 There's some that actually would affect you, possibly, too. 6-14-04 112 1 I just think that we need to, you know, make sure that we 2 prioritize our requests county-wide before we go to some of 3 our local foundations that have been very generous to the 4 community, and certainly -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: If there's not state or 6 federal moneys that they can find, what you're talking about 7 is maybe trying to package that with some more -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: With our -- with our local 10 sources? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, sir. I mean, I have 12 no problem with pursuing it, but I just think I'd rather do 13 it at one time. I think during the budget process, we'll 14 identify these other needs. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Constable, let me ask you, is 16 my understanding correct that you still have an outstanding 17 inquiry to something under the governor's office, maybe 18 Homeland Security or something, that you've not gotten the 19 final response on yet? Is that still pending? 20 MR. GARZA: Well, what it is, Your Honor, is 21 that the Homeland Security, Department of Justice referred 22 me to a contact person within the governor's office, where 23 some of the funds were distributed to for -- you know, for 24 these type of programs for equipment. Of course, I have not 25 got a response back from the state, you know. I just feel 6-14-04 113 1 like, you know, I'm just being -- my hands are being tied in 2 a way, but I understand the process. But it -- I've -- the 3 Peterson Foundation grant, talking to the other constable in 4 Precinct 1, talked to a person within the organization, and 5 said there was a fifty-fifty chance that we could be granted 6 this -- $10,500, I think is what we asked for. And I just 7 feel like, you know -- I mean, I wish I could, you know, 8 just go ahead and get it done. But, you know, I know the 9 Court has a way of doing things, and I understand and I 10 respect that, you know. My only problem is, the video 11 cameras are a vital thing, also for the racial profiling and 12 just the safety. 13 If I can have a moment, I can give you an 14 example. Two weeks ago, I made a traffic stop here on 15 Memorial Boulevard, stopped a gentleman. Daytime, speeding, 16 55 in a 45, in a construction zone area. Pulled him over, 17 gentleman and his wife. Gentleman became very -- was very 18 upset that I had stopped him. Concealed handgun, carried a 19 license. And the whole thing -- I went, got the -- got the 20 information through the dispatch. Gentlemen, I let him sit 21 in the car. He got out of the car, came up to me and said, 22 "You need to hurry up and get this ticket written up," and 23 what-have-you. I said I'm -- "I'll be right with you, sir." 24 Went back in the car, got my -- logged all this information 25 over the -- over the Sheriff's dispatch, so I -- that was my 6-14-04 114 1 only way of documenting this situation, you know. Got back 2 to the car, you know, gave him the information, all that, 3 and he said he wasn't going to sign the ticket. I said, 4 "Sir, I'm going to place you under arrest if you don't sign 5 the ticket." He said, "Okay, I'll go ahead and sign it." 6 He took off. I logged it all with dispatch. 7 Okay, come Monday, he comes in and -- and 8 talks to an official, said that I kept him out there for 37 9 minutes, him and his wife. I didn't do that. If I'd had a 10 video camera, I -- you know, of course, everything got 11 resolved, but -- he paid the ticket and everything, but he 12 was -- it was -- the situation was he claims that I kept him 13 out there 37 minutes. I did not do that. But my only way 14 of doing that was through the Sheriff's dispatch, you know, 15 logging on what happened, you know. So, I just think it's 16 imperative, if I'm going to be out there doing my job that I 17 want to do for the citizens of traffic enforcement and, of 18 course, drug interdiction on Interstate 10, which I do 19 mainly at night. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Constable, I'm 21 looking at the budget amendment request from Constable 22 Precinct 1, and I note with interest in his budget amendment 23 he has a Capital Outlay item of -- his Capital Outlay line 24 is $7,200. Do you have a similar Capital Outlay line in 25 your budget? 6-14-04 115 1 MR. GARZA: Yes, sir, I do -- I did. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And what is the 3 status of your current Capital Outlay line? 4 MR. GARZA: Zero, sir. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Zero? 6 MR. GARZA: Yes, sir. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Was it $7,200? 8 MR. GARZA: Yes, sir, I believe it was. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Isn't that the lease payments 10 on the car? Isn't it -- 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that the lease 12 payments? 13 MR. GARZA: Well, part of that was. It was 14 about $6,200 or so. The rest was for equipment, such as the 15 grill guard and other equipment. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, that's fine. 17 Thank you. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Constable, we appreciate the 19 efforts you've made to try and secure this equipment. We 20 want to get you the equipment that you need. And, 21 personally, I feel like the video cameras for documentation 22 purposes and -- and manpower savings later on, court 23 testimony and so forth, but most importantly the safety 24 aspect, makes those an important piece of equipment. But 25 I -- I think you understand how we're trying to -- to 6-14-04 116 1 approach this. If we can get that through state or federal 2 funds, so much the better. If we're going to try and 3 approach local foundation or grant sources, we -- we don't 4 want to go to the well too often, and we want to try and 5 package that up. And it's for that reason that Commissioner 6 Letz would like to consider this as part of a bigger 7 picture. We want to try and get you where you want to go, 8 and hopefully the delay won't be too much, because I think 9 it is important. But I appreciate the efforts you've made. 10 Hopefully, the next thing we hear out of the governor's 11 office will be, "Congratulations," and, "The check's in the 12 mail." And, sure enough, it'll be through. 13 MR. GARZA: That would be great, yeah. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: But -- but I'm sure you 15 understand why we approach it the way we do. And we're 16 looking at -- at budgeting issues also in connection with 17 it. 18 MR. GARZA: I understand, Your Honor. I 19 understand. Just -- I was just -- you know, I'm out there, 20 you know, being proactive, you know, for the county, and 21 that's the reason why. We've just -- a lot of these grants 22 take a considerable amount of time, you know. And the 23 budget's coming up, so I -- my idea was just -- if we don't 24 get these grants before the budget, you know, and then I 25 don't put it in the -- request it in the budget, then, you 6-14-04 117 1 know, it's like, "Well, you didn't ask for it in the budget. 2 No, sorry." But I know it's not going to be today in that 3 case, but I understand how the Court wants to work on it, 4 and I welcome that; that we would be included as part of a 5 larger package for a grant if it's available, you know. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me make another suggestion 7 to you, if I might. And I realize you've already turned in 8 your initial budget request, but you may want to amend your 9 budget request to ask, as a contingency item, for a capital 10 outlay in the event funds aren't made available through 11 state, federal, or -- or other grant moneys; that you want 12 the Court to fund it. And I encourage you to do that. It 13 wouldn't be too difficult for you to amend your budget and 14 just submit it, and that certainly would be one way to 15 approach it. 16 MR. GARZA: In fact, we can get -- I'm with 17 you. If I can get somebody else to -- another agency or 18 something to get us the funds, I would -- I would go that 19 route, but, you know, I want -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Make sure it's in your 21 budget. Don't lose it because it's not in the budget. But 22 if it's in the budget, we can always not spend it if we get 23 funds elsewhere. 24 MR. GARZA: Right, exactly. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Hopefully, we can get it 6-14-04 118 1 prior to the budget. 2 MR. GARZA: That was my only thing. I wasn't 3 sure, you know, 'cause, like I say, a lot of these processes 4 take a long time, and, you know, some hoops you got to jump 5 through. And my -- our main thing is -- I'm a one-man 6 department, and they look at us -- "Well, you don't qualify; 7 you're just a one-man department." Another criteria is 8 violent crime rate. In this area, we're not -- this 9 isn't -- thank God, Kerr County's not in that. So -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. 12 MR. GARZA: Yes, sir. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Angel, I was looking 14 at your monthly report again this morning. 15 MR. GARZA: Yes, sir. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That is one of the 17 best reports that this Court receives from anybody. 18 Excellent, excellent report. Good information. I can't 19 wait till next month; he's going to be coming in with a 20 wheelbarrow carrying that thing, he adds so much to it every 21 month. I appreciate that very much. We can look at that 22 and see what's going on with you. 23 MR. GARZA: Thank you. Thank you, sir. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 25 MR. GARZA: And I appreciate and I welcome 6-14-04 119 1 that. I want to give all the information to the Court on 2 what I'm doing for the -- my part of my duties. I welcome 3 that. I thank you, sir. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Appreciate it. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 7 MR. GARZA: Thank you. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: That'll be all on that item. 9 Next Item, Number 10, was an 11:30 item. Trying to catch 10 up. Consider and discuss budget amendment request to 11 transfer funds from Vehicle Insurance to Vehicle Repair and 12 Maintenance. Constable Garza again. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 16 approval of the agenda item. Any further question or 17 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 18 your right hand. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 23 MR. GARZA: Can I say one more thing? I just 24 want to thank the Court for all their help that they've 25 given me and their support. I really thank the Court for 6-14-04 120 1 that, all the Commissioners. Thank you. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, constable. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Appreciate it. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Why don't -- why don't we go 5 to Item 16, consider and discuss and take appropriate action 6 on the final draft of Kerr County Information Technology 7 Policies? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, there's a young 9 lady out in the audience that's waving her hands. 10 MS. MITCHELL: Judge, Shaun and Tommy had 11 planned on being here for that in case there were any 12 questions. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: After lunch? 14 MS. MITCHELL: In case there were any 15 questions from the Court. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. And they're planning on 17 being here after lunch? 18 MS. MITCHELL: Yes, sir. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Why don't we set 20 aside for just a moment Item 16. We'll come back to that 21 after lunch. Let's go to Item 18, consider and discuss 22 report from insurance consultant on the 2004 stop loss 23 health insurance policy proposed by Employee Benefit 24 Administrators, take appropriate action or response with 25 respect to the proposed policy. I had this put on the 6-14-04 121 1 agenda before I left town last week, and I have been assured 2 by our insurance consultant, Don Gray, who the Court has 3 directed me to bounce these questions off of with respect to 4 whether or not the proposed policy that was tendered and 5 which was brought before the Court at a previous meeting -- 6 I don't recall if it was the last meeting or meeting just 7 prior to -- that some concerns that I had -- had about some 8 of the policy provisions. And I had originally been told by 9 Mr. Gray that he would have something to come in to answer 10 all of the questions which I propounded to him, but this 11 morning we got the e-mail that you belatedly got before you. 12 In essence, he's saying that some of the information, which 13 apparently was submitted in the final hours or days of the 14 negotiation process by E.B.A., some of that information was 15 not resubmitted to him. I don't know if Mr. Motley's had an 16 opportunity to see this e-mail that we got. 17 MR. MOTLEY: I don't know about the e-mail. 18 I've had some -- I've had some phone messages from him, and 19 I -- pardon me -- I contacted him back and said that I would 20 go through the, you know, pretty thick stack of stuff. I 21 have to see if I see anything that clearly identifies itself 22 as the supplemental material to that submission. I might 23 have some other supplemental information in other places, 24 but I think they're for different years. So, I -- I 25 supposedly have everything, and I'm going to have to go back 6-14-04 122 1 and look. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: If the Court will recall, the 3 difficulty in us being able to identify it on this end is, 4 when the matter was referred to Mr. Gray, each of the 5 prospective bidders or vendors were directed to -- to deal 6 directly with Mr. Gray with their final and best offer. And 7 then, from that, he prepared his spreadsheet and other 8 summaries that came back. So, I suspect we may have some 9 difficulty identifying exactly what information was 10 submitted in that time frame by E.B.A., but that's where we 11 are. I don't think we're in a position to do anything final 12 on it today, but I put it on the agenda and wanted to give 13 the Court a report on it. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, we're waiting on the 15 County Attorney to see if he can come up with the 16 information that Mr. Gray requests. And if he doesn't? 17 Or -- I mean, and if he doesn't, being that the County 18 Attorney doesn't have additional information? 19 MR. MOTLEY: I'm going to see what's in the 20 -- the stuff is in a box about this big. I don't know, four 21 or five proposals, and it's all mixed up. And I pulled the 22 binder of E.B.A. and just kind of flipped through there, 23 didn't see anything else, and I'm just going to have to go 24 through there, the individual pieces of paper that are just 25 stuck in there. I'll just have to go through them 6-14-04 123 1 carefully. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We'll just wait till our 3 next meeting. 4 MR. MOTLEY: Two weeks? Maybe I can let 5 y'all know. I ought to be able to find it, get it in the 6 mail to the guy. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. All right. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Hopefully, if we can -- if we 9 can identify this supplemental information that E.B.A. 10 submitted, get that to Mr. Gray, we can get the answers to 11 all these questions that I asked. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, at this point, 13 just one quick question. The spreadsheet that's attached to 14 the e-mail, is that from Mr. Gray? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: That was -- based upon my 16 quick review of that, that spreadsheet or portions of it 17 were what Mr. Gray presented his summary to this Court, and 18 upon which this Court made its award. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. This is the 20 original spreadsheet? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, that's my understanding. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Judge, I've got one 23 question about a statement here in the e-mail from Mr. Gray. 24 He says, "It's my recollection that E.B.A. and others were 25 allowed to submit updated quotes to the County following the 6-14-04 124 1 submission of their initial proposals." Is that acceptable 2 in the bid process? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. Once -- once we made the 4 threshold determination of which bids were likely or 5 susceptible of being accepted, under the Professional 6 Services portion, they could then engage, and did, in 7 fact -- all five of them, as I recall, engaged in 8 discussions with -- directly with Mr. Gray as to their final 9 and best offer. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thank you. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't think you can 12 do that buying a tractor -- 13 JUDGE TINLEY: No. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- and those kind of 15 things. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's what I was 17 after, Commissioner. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I still think that is 19 so weird. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It also causes problems, 21 as we can tell now. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Looks like the 23 remaining items would be more appropriate for our afternoon 24 session, so we'll stand in recess until 1:30. 25 (Recess taken from 11:55 a.m. to 1:30 p.m.) - - - - - - - - - - 6-14-04 125 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let me call back to 2 order the Commissioners Court meeting scheduled for this 3 date. We recessed shortly before noon. It is now 1:30. We 4 have a timed agenda item for 1:30, that being Item 13, 5 consider and discuss approving a 10-foot wide easement 6 across courthouse property from Main Street to Jefferson 7 street. Commissioner Baldwin? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mr. Burton? There you 9 are. 10 MR. BURTON: Good afternoon. We are -- have 11 been asked to relocate our fiber and our co-ax that is 12 running on the poles right here in front of the courthouse 13 and going across that feeds all Kerrville South. And KPUB 14 has already obtained an easement, and we would like to go 15 joint-trench with them. When they dig the trench, we're 16 going to place a 4-inch conduit and a 3-inch conduit in this 17 easement. The 4-inch will be for our fiber, and the 3-inch 18 conduit will be for our co-ax. And I think it has something 19 to do with KEDF and their beautification program, trying to 20 remove some of the poles that are in front of the 21 courthouse, as well as in front of Sid Peterson Hospital, 22 and so we're requesting an easement to be co-located with 23 KPUB. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: This would be only within the 25 area that's already covered by the KPUB easement, and your 6-14-04 126 1 use would be in common with them? 2 MR. BURTON: Correct. They'll be 3 approximately a foot lower than where our conduit's going to 4 be located, but we'll be sitting basically on top of them, 5 but in the same trench with them. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How deep are these going 7 to be? 8 MR. BURTON: According to the KPUB prints, 9 we're going to be at a minimum of 30 inches, so they're 10 probably going to be probably at 42 or even lower. We just 11 need a foot of separation from them to us. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move to approve. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Go ahead -- only 14 thing, I was just going to get stupid. We sure -- we 15 definitely need a set of the drawings in case the Christmas 16 lighting people come in and start digging ditches some 17 weekend. 18 MR. BURTON: Yeah. That fiber's got all of 19 Kerrville South on it, so we don't want it cut, either. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where I live. 21 MR. BURTON: Yeah. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And where the Judge 23 lives. 24 MR. BURTON: And I live. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They're big diggers, 6-14-04 127 1 Commissioner. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, 30 inches. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd just ask that it be 4 coordinated with our Maintenance Department. 5 MR. BURTON: Sure. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Which I'm sure that KPUB 7 will do anyway. 8 MR. BURTON: We'll be out with KPUB along 9 with our contractor whenever we start this project, but 10 we -- actually, when we make the cut over, we hope to have 11 it done in two nights, so there will be hopefully minimal 12 interruption with the cable service. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is below ground 14 for the block from Main Street to Jefferson Street? 15 MR. BURTON: Yes, sir. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Then what does it do, 17 comes up above ground? 18 MR. BURTON: It will in front of the 19 hospital. There's a -- where we have aerial equipment now, 20 there's going to be a pedestal located there. That's where 21 the fiber's going to end up splicing, at that location, but 22 it'll be across the street. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I second Commissioner 24 Nicholson's motion. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion by Commissioner 6-14-04 128 1 Nicholson, second by Commissioner Letz, for approval of the 2 agenda item. Any further questions or discussion? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Only comment, I think the 4 easement agreement needs to be form-approved by the County 5 Attorney, and then authorize the County Judge to sign same. 6 I presume there's an agreement somewhere. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Should be an easement, grant 8 of an easement. 9 MR. BURTON: Yes. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Does that need to be 12 part of the motion? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you accept that as part of 14 your motion? 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All right, as modified. Any 17 further questions or discussion on the motion? All in favor 18 of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. The 21 motion does carry. Thank you very much, Mr. Burton. We 22 appreciate you being here. 23 MR. BURTON: Thank you. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go back to Item 12, 25 consider changes to '03/'04 Floodplain Administrative 6-14-04 129 1 budget. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Find any money? 3 MR. TOMLINSON: There's -- I think there's 4 around $10,000 in Commissioners Court Contingency and 5 Department 409. We paid -- we paid for that service out of 6 the General Fund previous to this year. So, if -- you know, 7 if the Court will agree to that -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How much is in the 9 training -- Floodplain Training? A thousand -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: And seventy dollars, roughly. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You have -- and on the 12 training, you go to San Antonio one time? 13 MR. JOHNSTON: I think in July, I have a -- 14 it's a free course from TEEX, but I have to have the travel 15 expense to drive back and forth. That's all. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, take $900 out of 17 Training? That would leave you enough money there. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Leave $168. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, that would be -- 20 what about -- actually, auto expense and fuel comes out of a 21 different item, so we can take $1,000 out of Training and 22 $3,000 out of Nondepartmental Contingency. That would be 23 $4,000 for right now. Then we can come back in a couple 24 months and see where we are. I so move that. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 6-14-04 130 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to 2 fund $4,000 for the Floodplain Administration items as 3 presented by Floodplain Administrator, $1,000 to come from 4 Floodplain Administration Training account, and $3,000 will 5 come from the Nondepartmental Contingency account. Any 6 further question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, 7 signify by raising your right hand. 8 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 10 (No response.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Thank 12 you, Mr. Johnston. The next item is consider, discuss, and 13 take appropriate -- and take appropriate action on the final 14 draft of the Kerr County Information Technology Policies. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What number is that? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 16. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: 16, I'm sorry. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's all right. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: We've been bouncing around so 20 much, it's kind of hard to keep up with a moving target. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, before we 22 launch into that, I notice the City Planner and the City -- 23 and the Airport Manager are here. I'm just taking a wild 24 guess they're here because of the agenda item concerning the 25 U.D.C. That's already been dispatched; we've taken care of 6-14-04 131 1 that. It wasn't a timed item at 1:30. It's already been 2 taken care of. Unless you have something else on your mind? 3 MR. PEARCE: I just came over, Mr. Williams, 4 'cause I wasn't sure what it was. I had seen it on the 5 agenda, and I thought it was at 1:30. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, it was not. It's 7 already been taken care of, and there will be a resolution 8 that the Court adopted which will be delivered to City 9 Council. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why did he think 1:30? 11 Is there some -- 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, 1:30 is up above on a 13 previous item, and then those items are below, possibly 14 indicating that -- that all items after that were going to 15 be at 1:30. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what they were 17 here for. Anyhow, back to Number 16. This, as far as I 18 know, and as far as the administrative assistant for 19 Commissioners Court knows, is a revised draft that 20 incorporates all of the suggestions and changes that have 21 been given to us since the very beginning of the workshop 22 process. Am I correct, Kathy? 23 MS. MITCHELL: You're correct. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And it is now in 25 front of you for your consideration, and hopefully adoption, 6-14-04 132 1 and we'll get it out of the way. And I did take the liberty 2 of sharing with you an e-mail that you probably received 3 from -- a copy of which you probably received from the 4 District Clerk, and it says really all that needs to be 5 said. There are abuses that continue to happen, and 6 hopefully that this -- that this policy will give us some 7 ability to correct that. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Bill, there is one 9 line here that is just glowing. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's that? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Glaring, I think is 12 the word. Glaring. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What page? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That -- on your table 15 of contents, and I'm sure that it's in the body of the 16 thing, but our guru brought it up the very first time we 17 talked about that, and that's the word "hack." 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Hack? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, are you still 20 hung up on "hack"? 21 MR. BRANHAM: Actually, I was never hung up 22 on it. It was kind of an F.Y.I. I had to sit and listen to 23 a two-hour lecture 'cause I accidentally misused the word, 24 so it was kind of one of those things. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've been going 6-14-04 133 1 through months of turmoil, not being able to sleep over 2 this. 3 MR. BRANHAM: Just hoping to save somebody 4 else from that. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, "hack" is not 6 politically incorrect? 7 MR. BRANHAM: No, not to me. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hack's not a good word 9 here, according to him. 10 (Discussion off the record.) 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we've come a long 12 way. We have a much shorter, simpler, and I think 13 enforceable policy that works. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are you happy? That's 15 the important part. 16 MS. UECKER: Well, I haven't -- yeah, I think 17 so, unless something's been changed since I turned in my 18 notes. 19 MS. MITCHELL: No. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, we've 21 incorporated your thoughts all along the line. And I want 22 to take this opportunity to thank Linda and other elected 23 officials and department heads for their input. They have 24 helped us streamline it, and have made us take out the 25 redundancies and the ambiguities, and this is it. I would 6-14-04 134 1 move its adoption. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 4 approval of the Kerr County Information Technology Policies 5 as presented in final draft form. Any further questions or 6 discussion? 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. I think I 8 need to address J.P. 4's concerns about the policies. He 9 sent us -- he sent a document that outlines the concerns he 10 had, largely centered around the fact that he has a personal 11 computer in his J.P. office that he -- he pays the cost of 12 internet, not the County, and he uses it for personal 13 reasons, rather than go back and forth from office to home. 14 There's some other concerns he has there. I think what I am 15 going to suggest to him is that he write a letter to the 16 policy administrator -- I presume that's Shaun; is that 17 right? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And say this is how 20 I'm going to use my personal computer and programs that are 21 situated in my County-provided office. If Shaun's got a 22 problem with that, well, then, they can endeavor to try to 23 work that out. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that's a good 25 way to approach it, Commissioner. 6-14-04 135 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's -- I mean, I 2 think that that's a good way, but I think it's -- I would 3 presume, anyway, it's kind of mandated by law as to what 4 he's subject to and what he isn't. If it's his computer, I 5 don't know if he is -- technically, if that's his personal 6 computer, in which case none of this applies, or by the fact 7 it's in a County office, if it's County property, which it 8 does apply. I mean, I just don't know the answer to that. 9 I think maybe the County Attorney could -- I mean, I clearly 10 use my personal attorney -- computer at home for a lot of 11 County business, but I view it as my personal computer, and 12 I'm not subject to any of this. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I do most of my work 14 at home, so -- and I take the same position. Shaun's not 15 going to come into my home office and -- and work on my 16 programs. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm pretty certain he 18 isn't on mine. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think Bill 20 Ragsdale -- Judge Ragsdale is concerned -- 21 MS. UECKER: Could the policy say, you know, 22 a County-provided computer? Would that solve that or not? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't know if you need 24 to add it. I mean, I think it's -- to me, it's pretty 25 clear. If it's not the County's computer, it's not -- 6-14-04 136 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If it's his computer, 2 it's his computer. And that's the only place where we had 3 that issue brought up. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. That's all. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think it's a good 6 solution. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or -- 8 MR. TOMLINSON: Make him paint it red so 9 we'll know which one it is. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What, Tommy? 11 MR. TOMLINSON: I said make him paint it red 12 so we'll know which one it is. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, okay. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Judge Ragsdale's a 15 fairly large man. I don't think I'd just pop into his 16 office and start messing with his machinery. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further -- 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Has a temper 19 sometimes, too. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or 21 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 22 your right hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 6-14-04 137 1 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. That 2 brings us down to executive session items. Are there any 3 items to be discussed in executive session? Hearing -- 4 MS. UECKER: Are we going to get final 5 copies? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: -- no information, -- 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah -- yes. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: -- we'll forego that, and we 9 will come now to the approval agenda, paying of the bills. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Sorry, did we pass 11 on 1.18? Or -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 18? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that the E.B.A.? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We took that up 15 earlier. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: It was just a report. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: That was just a report. There 19 wasn't any -- 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: All right. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: -- formal action taken. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move along. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Payment of the bills. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move we pay the 25 bills. 6-14-04 138 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to 3 pay the bills. Any question or discussion? All in favor of 4 the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 9 Budget amendments. Budget Amendment Request Number 1. 10 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 1 is a request of the 11 J.P. 1 to transfer $224 from Lease Copier line item to 12 Office Supplies. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for approval. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 16 approval of Budget Amendment Request Number 1. Any question 17 or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 18 raising your right hand. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Budget 23 Amendment Request Number 2. 24 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 2 is for the County 25 Jail, from the Sheriff. 6-14-04 139 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good gosh, look at 2 this. This is terrible. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: First part is to transfer 4 $25,000 from Group Insurance line item in the jail to 5 Prisoner Medical. Second part is to transfer $49.96 from 6 Group Insurance to Vehicle Maintenance for the jail, and the 7 third is to transfer $1,530.47 from Group Insurance in the 8 Sheriff's Office to Vehicle Repairs and Maintenance for the 9 Sheriff's Office. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- 11 MR. TOMLINSON: The $25,000 is in 12 anticipation of -- of the remainder of the year. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That was my question. Is 14 that your best guess, what it's going to take? 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And that's all that is, 16 Jonathan, is a guess. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Sheriff, the -- the excess of 18 funds in the Group Insurance account, is that because of 19 some slots that weren't filled for periods of time that have 20 allowed that excess to accumulate? 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, that may be part 22 of it. I think another part of it is the insurance premiums 23 weren't quite as high as what the County and the Auditor 24 expected this year, overall. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Wonderful. 6-14-04 140 1 MR. TOMLINSON: We did budget too much -- too 2 much per person for sure. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, that means we're 4 going to have surplus like that in every department, 5 probably? 6 MR. TOMLINSON: Well -- 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: On that line item? 8 MR. TOMLINSON: In the large departments, 9 where there are numbers of people, we'll have a material 10 amount of surplus. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: How much per employee did we 12 overbudget? 13 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't remember. I just 14 finished projecting expenditures for -- for the remainder of 15 the year for every account in the ledger. I think I gave 16 you a copy of it. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, I got it. 18 MR. TOMLINSON: And it seemed like it was $50 19 to $70 per -- per individual, I think. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Per month? Or -- 21 MR. TOMLINSON: Per month. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Per month? 23 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: So, we could be -- 25 MR. TOMLINSON: And, too, I mean, this is 6-14-04 141 1 combined with the fact that -- that he did have some 2 turnover in the -- in the jail; that when -- you know, that 3 people aren't eligible immediately, so when you do have some 4 turnover, then you gain those months for those people. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: So, we're looking at roughly, 6 even those where we didn't have gaps in employment, $600 to 7 $800 per employee? 8 MR. TOMLINSON: Per year. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: That were over. It's good to 10 know. Thank you. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And just for an 12 explanation, the one on the vehicle maintenance and that for 13 both jail and Sheriff's Office, the problem I ran into 14 that -- and the Court didn't expect it and I didn't. At the 15 time when we adopted the budget in October, our deductible 16 on things like deer accidents and all that was $250. That's 17 what I projected. And then, when y'all changed insurance 18 companies to drop it, and it upped the deductible, but 19 dropped the premium for the County, it went from $250 to 20 $1,000. So now, every deer we hit, it's a minimum of $1,000 21 if it's done that kind of damage, so that's what sunk that 22 vehicle maintenance and that, is -- besides -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So it's our fault, is 24 what's he's saying. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, I'm just saying -- 6-14-04 142 1 the County probably came out a lot better overall. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Move for approval, 3 Judge. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 6 approval of Budget Amendment Request Number 2. Any question 7 or discussion? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All in favor of the motion, 10 signify by raising your right hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 15 Budget Amendment Request Number 3. 16 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. Number 3 is for the 17 216th and 198th District Court. The first part of that is 18 to transfer $1,286.14 from Special Trials to Court-Appointed 19 Services for the 216th Court, and $3,403.26 from Special 20 Trials to Court-Appointed Services for the 198th District 21 Court. I do have a late bill that's attached to this for an 22 expert witness for -- it's for the Feaselman case, for 23 $3,150. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: And who's that payable to? 25 MR. TOMLINSON: I was afraid you were going 6-14-04 143 1 to ask me that. Joseph M. Guileyardo. It's 2 G-u-i-l-e-y-a-r-d-o. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. That's the only hand 4 check? 5 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, I have a late bill by 6 itself. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rusty back there? 8 MR. TOMLINSON: Wait, there is another one; 9 it's covered up. Okay. It's to Texas Mental Health/Mental 10 Retardation, Kerrville State Hospital, for $972. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: That's a late bill? 12 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. And the other's a late 14 bill and hand check? 15 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 20 approval of Budget Amendment Request Number 3 and approval 21 of late bill and hand check to Joseph M. Guileyardo for 22 $3,150 and late bill to Texas M.H.M.R. for $973. Any 23 further question or discussion? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, I have a question. 25 The -- I see the funds are coming out of Special Trials, and 6-14-04 144 1 I believe there was a large amount in there due to the Seard 2 trial -- capital murder trial that's pending. Rusty, what's 3 your best guess going into the budget as to whether that 4 trial will ever take place? 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: According to the last 6 evaluation, it probably will take place, but I couldn't tell 7 you when. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It will take place at 9 some point? 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: At some point in time. 11 Now, this Feaselman case is also a capital murder case in 12 this county. It's -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You can't say when, 14 but you can say it won't be this year. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It won't -- I seriously 16 doubt that it would be anywhere between now and December or 17 January, from what we got. 18 MR. TOMLINSON: I talked to the District 19 Attorney about -- about this issue, and his -- his estimate 20 is that it won't be this fiscal year. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My question wasn't that 22 we were taking money out of it now; it was more to remember 23 that during the budget process, that -- I mean, I don't want 24 to budget money if he's never going -- trial's never going 25 to happen. But if it is going to happen, then we do need to 6-14-04 145 1 budget for it. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think it will happen. 3 We just transported him back last week to North Texas State 4 Hospital after being back down here for another evaluation 5 hearing, which he was evaluated and sent back. But I think 6 it will happen eventually. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, thank you. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 9 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 10 your right hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: Just as an information, the 16 reason that we didn't pay it out of Special Trials is that, 17 for reporting purposes for Senate Bill 7, which is the 18 Indigent Defense bill, we have to seg -- we have to separate 19 types of expenditures in the -- from court-appointed 20 attorneys to any other services. So, in order to make -- to 21 simplify that process, we're transferring -- we're actually 22 making the payment out of the line item that more defines 23 what the -- what the bill is for. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that's a good 25 idea. I think the purpose of budgeting under Special Trials 6-14-04 146 1 is really just so we keep that money set aside, and then put 2 it in the right funds as we need it. Makes sense. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Do we have any other 4 late bills? 5 MR. TOMLINSON: I have a late bill that we 6 need a hand check for. It's to Holiday Inn Express for 7 $1,776.67, and it's for the lodging for -- for the witnesses 8 and attorneys in relation to the Roy Crider case. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that a motion for approval? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I moved it. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: He moved it. He moved 15 approval. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Want to second it? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: I think I heard you. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, I thought I did. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I wanted to see if 21 Commissioner Nicholson wanted to second. I'll second it. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 23 approval of late bill and issuance of hand check in the 24 amount of $1,776.67 to Holiday Inn Express. Any further 25 questions or discussion? 6-14-04 147 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. What -- we 2 paid the hotel room for witnesses? And lawyers? 3 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes, attorneys for -- for the 4 defense. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: For the defense? 6 MR. TOMLINSON: I believe that's right. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that like an 8 indigent type thing? Or -- 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What the State makes 11 us do. Isn't that part of that legislation? 12 MR. TOMLINSON: This is a court-appointed 13 case. One is for Todd Burdick. I mean, he's not a -- he's 14 an investigator, but he's not an attorney. But -- 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: He's an investigator for 16 the D.A.'s office. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, it's for him? 18 MR. TOMLINSON: And a Sally Rowan. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's a witness. 20 MR. TOMLINSON: Steve Pickell, which is an 21 attorney, and then another one for Todd. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait. Where was this 23 trial? 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It was a change of venue 25 from here to Boerne. 6-14-04 148 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Boerne? All right. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Almost a week-long 3 trial. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What is this case? 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's over now at this 6 point. It was a multi-count sexual assault case. There was 7 one -- I think it was even tried here -- 8 MR. TOMLINSON: It was a hung jury. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- at first, and ended 10 up in a hung jury, and then they had to do a change of venue 11 because of the publicity and that when it ended up hung, and 12 changed to it Boerne. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything further? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I share your frustration, 15 Commissioner 1. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm embarrassed. This 17 is embarrassing. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or 19 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 20 your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that it for you, 25 Mr. Auditor? 6-14-04 149 1 MR. TOMLINSON: That's it. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's all, folks. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I have before me transcripts 5 of the Kerr County Commissioners Court regular session of 6 Monday, May 10, 2004; transcript of the Kerr County 7 Commissioners Court regular session -- excuse me, special 8 session, Monday, May 17th, 2004; and transcript of the Kerr 9 County Commissioners Court special session, Monday, May 24, 10 2004. Do I hear a motion that these be approved as 11 submitted? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 15 approval of transcripts as presented. Any question or 16 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 17 your right hand. 18 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. I also 22 have before me monthly reports from the Sheriff, County 23 Clerk, Justice of the Peace Precinct 4, Justice of the Peace 24 Precinct 3, County Clerk, and Constable Precinct 1. Do I 25 hear a motion to approve these reports as submitted? 6-14-04 150 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 4 approval of the named reports as submitted. Any questions 5 or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 6 raising your right hand. 7 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 9 (No response.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Do we 11 have any reports from Commissioners concerning their liaison 12 or otherwise? One? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, no, sir. Thank 14 you very much for asking, though. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Two? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The airport advisory 17 group, Commissioner Letz and I are having a tough time 18 getting this next meeting scheduled. Have they talked to 19 you about a potential meeting for -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 29th. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 29th, yeah. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 28th or 29th. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, 28th or 29th. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 29th. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Hopefully, we'll get 6-14-04 151 1 that meeting under our belts and move the matters along, 2 because we're now getting into numbers, or potential 3 numbers, and it's time to do that. Other things, I might 4 have -- I knew there was something I was going to talk about 5 this morning when I had my opportunity, and that is that 6 there is a -- what's called a First Generation College 7 Project, and grants are awarded by the Texas Workforce 8 Commission, Alamo Workforce Development, and partnership 9 agreements with A.C.C., U.T.S.A., Center Point High School, 10 Dilley, Natalia, and so forth and so on. The project will 11 provide over 400 school youth with a range of activities and 12 services to help acquaint and prepare them for college, and 13 with financial assistance to attend college after 14 graduation. The grants could be -- grants can range all the 15 way up to $2,500, and that's good news for the Center Point 16 Independent School District. 17 Let's see. Some other little AACOG-type news 18 here. Last transportation report indicated that there were 19 about 8,529 trips made by the A.R.T., logging in about 20 85,000 miles. Under-60 trips were about 2,600. 60-plus 21 trips were -- age trips are about 5,900. Kerr County's 22 employment -- unemployment rate, if you're interested, for 23 the month of April was 2.6 percent. The Sheriff got some 24 more money -- let's see if I can find where it is here. 25 Emergency Preparedness, got a little bit more money for his 6-14-04 152 1 trailer. And that's it, Judge. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that the one he's 3 going to Colorado in, that trailer? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It better not be the 5 one he's going to Colorado in. I think that's it, Judge. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, thank you. Commissioner 7 3? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the only comment 9 I have, I'd just encourage everyone to look at the 10 Environmental Health Department report closely. And I think 11 it's interesting that a lot of naysayers said that we 12 were -- when we got rid of real estate transfers, the 13 world's coming to an end; there's no more money coming in. 14 Our revenue side, we're pretty much flat with last year. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 38 or something? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: About 60,000 we've had in 17 gross revenue both years, 62 last year and 61 this year, 18 something like that. But, anyway, activity is up from last 19 year. But the program seems to be working without real 20 estate transfers. Good news. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that all you got? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's all I got. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Four? 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm thinking about 25 Animal Control and other things that we do jointly with the 6-14-04 153 1 City, and probably some the issues that need to be addressed 2 there are best addressed in the joint City/County meetings. 3 I don't know; that's maybe a false assumption. Anyhow, 4 we're going to schedule those meetings when we meet this 5 next time in our first workshop on the budget? Is -- how 6 does that happen? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: If recollection serves me 8 correctly -- and, of course, my tenure is rather short at 9 this point. I think it happened in July, did it not? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Last year it was late 11 July, but it has changed from time to time based on when the 12 information was available. But my -- I mean, I think that 13 at our workshop, that is the right time to set that meeting, 14 or figure out when we want to do it. But I also think that 15 very little is accomplished from changing or doing anything 16 at that meeting. So, if there's some issues that you have 17 for Animal Control or anything else, I would strongly 18 recommend you get with City staff so we can get -- you know, 19 ahead of time, because I just don't see -- I mean, they're 20 good review meetings, kind of keep everybody on the same 21 page, but I don't see much work really coming out of it. 22 It's more informative. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see it more as a -- 24 used to be, over here we would simply get their budget at 25 the final hour, and we either stopped the entire budget 6-14-04 154 1 process or we agreed with it and paid half of everything. 2 And so this is kind of the reason that thing is set up, so 3 we can get together and they can tell us what all they'd 4 like to do and want to do, and how much it's going to cost 5 and what they expect us to do. So, in that sense, it is 6 kind of beneficial. But I didn't mean to get off course 7 there, but I think that's a perfect time -- our next meeting 8 is a perfect time to set that up. And I think it's a good 9 idea to have those; I really do. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, yeah, they're good. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And you've heard me 12 say that before. My sense of last year's budget process -- 13 which, of course, was my first one, wasn't it? -- was that 14 we ran out of time. If there were important issues that 15 probably needed a little more attention, need to be dealt 16 with, we just -- we had to have a budget; we had to kind of 17 skim over some things. So, that's something we can talk 18 about on the 30th. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, just to bring up 20 another city thing that I -- it's amazing how fast a year 21 goes by. And I believe it was last July, at that meeting, 22 we had a lengthy discussion about the city fire contract, 23 and it was pretty contentious at times, and I think we had 24 hoped to really look at that and see if they had coverage 25 and see how it worked around Kerrville and some of my own -- 6-14-04 155 1 part of my precinct, part of Buster's, pretty much. And I 2 don't believe that was ever really done, so I think it's -- 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, I've been 4 talking with Commissioner Baldwin, and some of my 5 constituents and myself in Precinct 4 have got some issues 6 with the performance of dispatch. I think that that needs 7 to be improved, and I'm not too sure about how to go about 8 facilitating those improvements. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you think it would be 10 appropriate to make inquiry of the City about if they've -- 11 if they have any plans in place for a joint session, if they 12 have any preliminary numbers, that we'd appreciate having 13 the benefit of those numbers as soon as possible? Don't you 14 think that would be a good inquiry to make? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it would be a 16 good inquiry, and to have that information at our next 17 meeting so we can -- 18 JUDGE TINLEY: I'll see that that gets done. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I found the 20 other item I was looking for. It had to do with the 21 Homeland Security grants. Kerr County got an extra $54,879, 22 and don't you take it on vacation with you. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: There were actually two. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Going -- there's two. I 6-14-04 156 1 just got the sub-recipient agreements today in the mail. 2 I'll have to bring it over to get the Judge to sign. One is 3 54,000-something. The other one was 10,000-something. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That -- I think the 5 10 has to do with some more improvements to your trailer? 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, the 10,000 -- what 7 we actually proposed, and they approved, is that storage 8 building out there where we store -- we'll store that 9 trailer, the back side of that building is not fenced with a 10 security fence at all. And now that the City's fixing to 11 extend East Main or whatever it is all the way through and 12 tie into that cul-de-sac, it's going to put it right by the 13 back of that building, and I have no way of securing that 14 building. So, that 10 -- we'll see what kind of fence we 15 can get built the rest of the way around that building to 16 secure that a little bit better. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Did you have anything else, 18 Commissioner 4? 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No, sir. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I would like to 22 bring up one issue on one of my committees. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Surely. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Y'all can just choose 25 one; it doesn't matter. The fountain out here in the yard, 6-14-04 157 1 we want -- or I want to do something about that thing. It's 2 just sitting there doing nothing. It's empty. It's not -- 3 there's no water in it; it's not a fountain. It's a pile of 4 rocks. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's ugly. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And it's doing 7 nothing. I mean, it's nonfunctional, and I want to do 8 something about that, so I'm going to -- I'm going to have 9 it on the agenda next meeting with some thoughts. I know 10 you find that hard to believe, but I'm going to have some 11 thoughts, and maybe a little plan of some sort. So, y'all 12 be thinking about that. Personally, I'd like to fill it up 13 and make a little putting green up on the top. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Hey, I like that. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: See, Bill? There's 16 two of us. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Turn it over to the 18 Christmas lighting committee. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, they -- they 21 made a Christmas tree out of it in wintertime. You're 22 right, it's ugly -- or whoever said it; it's ugly. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I wouldn't ever say 24 anything like that, so it had to be Letz. But, anyway, just 25 be thinking about that. And I think that that -- isn't that 6-14-04 158 1 more your bailiwick? Being the courthouse square and all? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Being the courthouse 3 square? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Being in the 5 courthouse square and all. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: That's where you are, isn't 7 it, Commissioner? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's where I are. 9 But aren't you in charge of all that? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: I fail to find anything I'm 11 totally in charge of. Are you giving me authority? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, I'll take care of 13 it. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: While you're at it, 16 would you take care of that United Fund sign, get it down? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We can fix that. Is 18 Road and Bridge still in the building? That can be fixed in 19 a heartbeat. Well, I'm going home, if that's the way y'all 20 are going to treat me. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else, gentlemen? Any 22 other reports that we have? Hearing none, I will declare us 23 adjourned. 24 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 2:12 p.m.) 25 - - - - - - - - - - 6-14-04 159 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 5 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 6 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 7 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 18th day of June, 2004. 8 9 10 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 11 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 12 Certified Shorthand Reporter 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 6-14-04