1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Special Session 10 Monday, June 28, 2004 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 DAVE NICHOLSON, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X June 28, 2004 2 PAGE --- Visitors' Input 3 3 --- Commissioners' Comments 5 4 1.1 Final Plat Revision for Lots 14 & 15 of The Horizon, Section One, Pct. 1 14 5 1.2 Final Plat Revision for Lots 32 & 33 of The 6 Horizon, Section One, Pct. 1 14 7 1.3 Concept Plan for Lot 118 of Kerrville South II, Pct.1 15 8 1.5 Set Public Hearing for Revision of Plat for 9 Lots 7 & 8, Block 9, Saddlewood Estates 18, 71 10 1.6 Consider authorizing Road & Bridge to temporarily close Ehlers Road at the north 11 side of the Guadalupe River 19 12 1.4 Consider and discuss a plan to establish a BB gun target range on HCYEC grounds 22 13 1.9 Consider Final for Alternate Plat of Lot 13, 14 Riverside Park, Precinct 4 30 15 1.10 Discuss establishing policies governing the use of the courthouse building and grounds 31 16 1.7 Public Hearing for Revision of Plat for Tracts 17 12 & 13 of Hidden Valley Ranch 1, Vol. 4, Page 33 45 18 1.8 Revision of Plat for Tracts 12 & 13 of Hidden Valley Ranch 1, Vol. 4, Page 33, Pct. 1 46 19 1.11 Consider approving Commissioner, Pct. 1 to 20 develop a plan for utilization of the fountain in front of the courthouse 49 21 4.1 Pay Bills 52 22 4.2 Budget Amendments 55 4.3 Late Bills 58 23 4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 60 24 5.1 Reports from Commissioners/Liaison Committee Assignments 60 25 --- Adjourned 72 3 1 On Monday, June 18, 2004, at 9:00 a.m., a special meeting 2 of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in the 3 Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville, 4 Texas, and the following proceedings were had in open court: 5 P R O C E E D I N G S 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning. Let me call to 7 order the special Commissioners Court meeting posted for 8 this time and date, Monday, June 28, 2004, at 9 a.m. 9 Commissioner Letz? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 11 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: At this time, if there is any 13 member of the public that wishes to address the Court about 14 any matter that is not on the agenda, this is the time for 15 that to occur. If you wish to talk to the Court about a 16 matter that is on the agenda, we would ask that you please 17 wait until that agenda item is called, and while we prefer 18 that you fill out a participation form, it's not absolutely 19 required. If you'll somehow get my attention, why, we'll -- 20 we'll recognize you so that you have an opportunity to be 21 heard on whatever item -- whatever item you wish to be heard 22 on. But, at this time, if there's any member of the 23 audience or the public that wishes to come forward and talk 24 to us about anything that's not on the agenda, why, please 25 feel free to come forward at this time. Yes, sir? Give 6-28-04 4 1 your name to the reporter, please. 2 MR. ELLER: Commissioners, I'm Charlie Eller, 3 108 Wild Timber, Kerrville. I've just read the draft 4 proposal of the Kerrville Unified Development Code, and in 5 my opinion, it is the most blatantly unconstitutional taking 6 of private property with no compelling public interest being 7 shown in it, and no compensation being offered. I think 8 it's totally dangerous in that, as I read it, there's a 9 great possibility of you applying for a building permit and 10 rewiring your house, and finding out you've got to redo the 11 whole front of your property and your driveway so you can 12 turn around and drive out into the street. It's full of 13 stuff like that. After watching the City Planning and 14 Zoning Board in action, I'm convinced that any interlocal 15 agreement -- which they refer to in the U.D.C., and I don't 16 believe exists -- would be the start of an effort to expand 17 city control over the rest of the county, and I urge the 18 Court to resist all efforts to extend the power of the City 19 of Kerrville beyond those delegated by state statute. Thank 20 you. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Eller. I 22 appreciate you being here with us this morning. Is there 23 any other member of the public that wishes to be heard about 24 any matter that is not listed on the agenda? If you wish 25 to, why, please come forward at this time. Being no other 6-28-04 5 1 indication of anyone else, why, we'll move on with the 2 business as listed on the agenda. Commissioner Letz, have 3 you got anything for us this morning? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, a couple comments. 5 And it must be a great day, because Mr. Eller and I are 6 having the same topic that we're going to start out talking 7 about, U.D.C. I just wanted to remind the -- everyone that 8 there are several more dates to get your opinion before the 9 Planning and Zoning Commission and the City. Based on the 10 schedule that I have, on July 1st, this Thursday, there's 11 another meeting before the Planning and Zoning Commission, 12 and then on July 13th and 27th are scheduled the first and 13 second readings of the U.D.C. before the City Council, so 14 there are some opportunities to get your opinions voiced if 15 you so choose. 16 MR. ELLER: I may be wrong, but I understand 17 the deadline to get on that agenda was Wednesday. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Wednesday? 19 MR. ELLER: They are cycling everything like 20 that. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're right. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think a group of people 23 showing up will have some impact, in any event. And just in 24 regard more specifically to the Court, I had a visit with 25 the City Manager at some length the other day, and -- and 6-28-04 6 1 because some letters have gone back and forth between the 2 City and County. I told him that our view of the resolution 3 was that we just wanted a format -- you know, open dialogue 4 in areas that are very important to the County, being 5 subdivisions in the ETJ and airport. And I said there was 6 no intent for us to get into city business, and we just -- 7 but we are very adamant that in those two areas, that we are 8 brought along and -- and agree and work with them, not told 9 by them what to do. And I think they understand. And I was 10 going to put this item on the agenda today related to that, 11 but based on that conversation, they have not had time -- or 12 a meeting to respond to our resolution at the last meeting 13 to appoint a committee. Their City Council meeting is 14 tomorrow night, so I'll see if they do it or not at that 15 time. I have no idea. There is an airport committee 16 meeting, which is working very well with the City, and Bill 17 and I will be at that tomorrow morning. 18 And the other item I have is -- I probably 19 shouldn't bring it up, because it's not a very happy 20 subject -- baseball. University of Texas got -- just -- 21 only word for them is -- in the finals, is choked. They 22 absolutely did terrible. You cannot win games at that level 23 when have you three errors, which they had three errors in 24 both of those games. The only shining light that I can see 25 in that is that my nephew, Ryan, did exceptionally well in 6-28-04 7 1 both games. He was about the only player on the team that 2 played a good game. But he had a good game, and there were 3 some other good catches, individuals. But Ryan had a good 4 series, which is good, but it doesn't make the loss any 5 better. That's it. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Nicholson? 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Got two things, 8 Judge. On the zoning issues, the people who I represent in 9 the western part of the county, or the vast majority of 10 them, probably 90 percent or more, believe in limited 11 government. They don't want government unnecessarily 12 interfering in their lives, except in the most basic ways, 13 to provide health and safety and services like that. So, I 14 have no interest in or intent -- I have no intent to support 15 any extension of the City of Kerrville zoning rules out into 16 the county. Second thing -- and Judge Tinley saw it. We 17 have our first red light in Hunt, and it's there at the Hunt 18 Crossing, the bridge, where a flood three weeks ago did some 19 pretty substantial damage to the bridge. And I really did 20 -- was impressed and appreciated the fact that TexDOT went 21 out, got on that right away. Just within about two days, 22 they let a contract, and the -- to repair the bridge, and 23 then with a 15-day estimate of how long it would take. Now, 24 we had high water again while they were working on it; there 25 was water over the bridge again, and so they -- I think they 6-28-04 8 1 probably lost a couple days there at least. But TexDOT's 2 doing a good job, and we'll be back in service again pretty 3 soon; we won't have a red light in Hunt. That's all. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Baldwin? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, Judge. I 7 appreciate the update from my hometown about the red light. 8 It is temporary. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes, sir. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, good. I just 11 wanted to give an update -- and I'm sure that the remaining 12 two members of the Court will have comments about this as 13 well, the Aqua Texas rate increase issue. I understand that 14 we now have -- Kathy informed me this morning we now have 15 approximately 704 signatures, 300 shy. And 63 of those have 16 already been mailed -- the letters have been mailed. Judge, 17 you mailed the letters this last week? I know that there -- 18 my neighborhood is -- over the weekend and end of last week, 19 I handed out letters door-to-door, and I -- this morning, in 20 the kitchen in the back of the courthouse, I saw a petition 21 laying there with 15 or 20 signatures on it laying right 22 there. So, I feel confident that we're going to reach our 23 goal, but still we need to -- we need to stay out there 24 and -- in my opinion, we need to get way over 1,000 just in 25 case. So, anyway, I think that's coming -- coming around 6-28-04 9 1 just fine. Also, Item 2, in the courtroom today is some 2 observers from the League of Women Voters. I see three back 3 there, and we -- we welcome you. And we -- it's exciting to 4 have people that take an interest in our -- in your 5 Commissioners Court. So, that's all for now. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Williams? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I appreciate 8 Mr. Eller's comments about the U.D.C. and what that's all 9 about. Suffice to it say there is a great amount of outrage 10 building in the -- in the community over certain aspects of 11 that. Whether or not they're resolved to everybody's 12 satisfaction remains to be seen. But I know Commissioner 13 Letz and Commissioner Baldwin will work hard to get ours 14 resolved, and we do have some issues that need to be 15 resolved. On the Aqua Texas thing, I introduced the -- our 16 resolution at the Rural Judges and at the Alamo Area Council 17 of Governments Board of Directors meeting. Both bodies 18 unanimously approved our resolution regarding the support 19 for Aqua Texas public hearing, and will forward those 20 resolutions on to the appropriate people. 21 Speaking from a perspective of an old 22 sports -- college sports fan whose team seldom wins, so I 23 can say this, I think, with impunity, I noticed that the 24 University of Texas team, after it lost its -- lost its 25 College World Series, didn't show up to get its second-place 6-28-04 10 1 trophy, and I think that's kind of a -- not a good show of 2 sportsmanship, although I know they worked hard all season 3 long. But they shouldn't let that get in the way of the 4 fact that they earned the -- they earned it, and they owed 5 it to the fans and everybody to show up and get their 6 trophy. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think they ran out 8 of gas, Bill. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, they ran out of 10 gas? Well, they were in the locker room. That's it, Judge. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Did you want to respond to 12 that? Equal time? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. I was going to 14 respond to something else that I -- I don't believe it's on 15 the agenda, but I heard some conversation regarding the Aqua 16 Texas, and I don't know if you all received the memo from 17 David Motley related to that. It was on my computer early 18 this morning. And the -- and this is just from a public 19 information standpoint. His conclusion is that -- well, 20 I'll read it. His summary, "In short, Kerr County lacks the 21 authority to contribute to the pending water rate hike 22 challenge of great interest to the citizens. Statutes and 23 cases mentioned to herein are attached documents." 24 Basically, we have no authority to spend any County funds on 25 this matter, so I just wanted to state that for the public 6-28-04 11 1 standpoint. He researched the statute very closely, and 2 while we can certainly help coordinate, we cannot spend 3 County funds on that matter. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Commissioner. With 5 regard to the Unified Development Code, as was indicated 6 earlier, the -- the last public hearing before the Planning 7 and Zoning Commission is this Thursday at 4:30, and the 8 deadline -- or the published deadline for getting on that 9 agenda was noon last Wednesday. I might also point out 10 that, with respect to the two meetings before the Council, 11 the Planning Director for the City of Kerrville has stated 12 publicly on a number of occasions that -- that he did not 13 believe that the Council was going to address any items or 14 allow anyone to address them with respect to any items which 15 had not been presented to the Planning and Zoning 16 Commission. The long and the short of his statement is, if 17 you didn't show up before the P & Z to press your case or 18 your concerns, that -- at least it was the Planning 19 Director's conclusion that you weren't going to even be able 20 to talk to the City Council about it. Maybe that's true; 21 maybe it's not. I don't know. That's certainly up to the 22 Council. I encourage everybody to attend that meeting, and 23 to attend the Council meetings that are set for July. I 24 think it's something that concerns all of us, whether we 25 live in the city or the county, because I see it as 6-28-04 12 1 something that materially affects the cost of doing business 2 within the city, and it very well could result in higher 3 costs for goods and services because of the additional 4 requirements that may be imposed by this Unified Development 5 Code. So, notwithstanding the fact that we don't live in 6 the county -- in the city, and we're maybe even outside the 7 ETJ, I still see it as a matter of serious concern to all of 8 us. 9 I would also like to express my thanks to all 10 those who took an interest to participate in the benefit 11 this past weekend that was out at the Youth Exhibit Center, 12 the benefit for the family of -- the Knapp family, the 13 trooper that lost his life in the line of duty here a short 14 while back. I was out there for a short period of time, and 15 there were a number of people there. I understand it was 16 well-attended, and the event came off very, very good, and I 17 want to thank everybody who participated, whether they may 18 have been out there on Saturday, or whether they may have 19 placed something in one of the silent auction or the live 20 auction items. But I think it's a good testament to our 21 support of this family that lost this nice young man. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, questions on the 23 public hearing issue with the P & Z. And you may not know 24 the answer. Is it -- I didn't know that you could prevent 25 people from speaking at a public hearing. I thought the 6-28-04 13 1 purpose of a public hearing was to get people to speak. And 2 putting a deadline of over a week in advance seems -- I've 3 never heard of that. Is that customary, to your knowledge? 4 Or do you have any idea? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: That's a very good point, 6 Commissioner. If -- if I were to attempt to impose that 7 requirement here, I would hope that -- that the public would 8 become outraged at it. But we'll -- I guess we conduct our 9 business in our way, and they can proceed in whatever way 10 they deem appropriate. But, no, I'm not aware of public 11 hearing practices. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: My understanding of 13 it is that you may show up, and you can probably speak, but 14 if you haven't presented your item for them -- their 15 consideration earlier, they're not going to -- they're just 16 going to listen. They're not going to -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, as long as they 18 give the public an opportunity to speak, that would be my 19 concern. If they're trying to stifle input, I would just be 20 surprised. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, if it's just 22 going to go in this ear and out the other, it's of little 23 value. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's move on with the 25 business at hand. The first item on the agenda is consider 6-28-04 14 1 a final plat revision for Lots 14 and 15 of The Horizon in 2 Section One of The Horizon located in Precinct 1. 3 MR. JOHNSTON: This is a -- good morning. 4 This is a combination of two lots. Had a public hearing a 5 couple times ago, and it's combining Lots 14 and 15 into 6 14-A, making it a 10-acre lot. I recommend approval. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I move that we 8 approve the final plat revision for Lots 14 and 15 of The 9 Horizon, Section One. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 12 approval of the agenda item. Any question or discussion? 13 All in favor of the motion signify by raising your right 14 hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Next 19 item on the agenda is consider final plat revision for Lots 20 32 and 33 of The Horizon, Section One. 21 MR. JOHNSTON: This is very similar. Lots 32 22 and 33 are combined into Lot 33-A, which totals 11.08 acres. 23 Had a public hearing already, and I'd recommend approval on 24 this one. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I recommend -- 6-28-04 15 1 I move that we approve the final plat revision of Lots 32 2 and 33 of The Horizon, Section One. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 5 approval of the agenda item. Any question or discussion? 6 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 7 hand. 8 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 10 (No response.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Next 12 item is consider concept plan for Lot 118 of Kerville South 13 II, located in Precinct 1. 14 MR. JOHNSTON: Lot 118 contains 6.21 acres. 15 It's located in a platted subdivision, and the owner, who's 16 here today -- if you have questions, he can talk to you 17 about it, Mike Tuck -- would like to divide that into five 18 lots. The way I see it, the way -- the way it's laid out 19 right now, it's already kind of divided into two lots. The 20 Madrona Drive cuts through the corner of Lot 118 and creates 21 a small -- actually, when you take the roadway out, it's 22 just slightly less than an acre, leaving the balance on the 23 other side, which he wants to divide into four lots. It's 24 served by a public water system. There are two items -- 25 that's why he wanted to bring a concept plan to the Court -- 6-28-04 16 1 that didn't fully meet the Subdivision Rules. One lot, like 2 I said earlier, is slightly less than an acre; it's .906 of 3 an acre. That could be argued, though, that that part could 4 be grandfathered, because the road -- ever since the road 5 was built, it's been divided like that and less than an 6 acre. In fact, it probably wasn't originally, but when he 7 took the road right-of-way -- he's dedicating the 8 right-of-way, one and a quarter acres, that made it less 9 than -- if you cut to the center line of the road, it would 10 be an acre plus. That's the issue on that one. And the 11 other issue is that one lot has 142 feet instead of 200 feet 12 of frontage. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It shows that when the 14 road went through there, he gave up almost an acre and a 15 third into the road to dedicate to the County, the roadway 16 there, the right-of-way. Over an acre of land. And the -- 17 the frontage issue, in my mind -- I may think a little 18 differently than you other guys, and I know that would be 19 surprising, but the 200 feet, in my mind, relates to things 20 like site distance and safety. The reason that you would -- 21 and I know it solved the flag lot issue, but the only reason 22 that I see that we would have 200 feet frontage is because 23 of site distance, which would be a safety issue. So, I -- 24 and in this particular area, there is not a site issue 25 problem, so I -- I don't have any problem granting a 6-28-04 17 1 variance from that -- from that particular issue. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Commissioner, is 3 this property served by a central sewer system? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir -- oh, sewer 5 system? 6 MR. JOHNSTON: Not sewer system. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, not with a sewer 8 system. Water, yes. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Separate? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes. They got septic 11 tanks. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't have any problem 13 with this. This is a -- a variance is required on the -- 14 from a water standpoint, but that's something that we've 15 done, and we're going to change it if we ever get around to 16 doing our Subdivision Rules. It currently says to go to 17 1 acre on a public system, you have to be -- use surface 18 water, but there's no mechanism for that currently in the 19 county. There was, I think, a hope that we would go that 20 direction, but it doesn't work. We have gotten away from 21 that provision in the past. On the site distance issue or 22 the frontage, I believe Commissioner Baldwin's correct, that 23 that is a -- it's a site issue more than anything else, and 24 we, on numerous occasions, give a variance to that, as long 25 as, you know, it is a -- meets, I guess, a safety test. And 6-28-04 18 1 on the one lot that's a little bit less than an acre, that 2 doesn't -- that's -- I think we can give a variance for that 3 as well. So really, I guess, technically, there are three 4 variances that would be required to do this. My only 5 question -- I don't have any problem with any of them. My 6 only, I guess, comment would be that the septic -- when you 7 go to lots this small, the septic issue can become an issue 8 and can become expensive to put systems in that meet the 9 requirements of the law. But that's up to the developer; 10 that's not our decision. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 12 MR. JOHNSTON: No action required. This is 13 just a concept plan, so we'll -- he'll formally ask for a 14 variance, I guess, with the preliminary plat revision. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything further on this item, 16 gentlemen? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Item 5, if we 19 might. Set a public hearing for revision of plat for Lots 7 20 and 8 in Block 9, Saddlewood Estates, Section Three, located 21 in Precinct 1. 22 MR. JOHNSTON: Yeah. These are lots in 23 Saddlewood Estates, and they'll be wanting to combine them, 24 like we previously did in The Horizon. I'd suggest a date 25 for the public hearing be August 8th at 10 a.m. 6-28-04 19 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And I agree. Is 2 Mr. Domingues -- 3 MR. JOHNSTON: He's not here. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I thought I saw him. 5 MR. JOHNSTON: He was here earlier, but he 6 had to leave. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move we set the 8 public hearing date as August 8, 2004, at 10 a.m. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 11 setting a public hearing for the revision of plat of Lots 7 12 and 8 in Block 9, Saddlewood Estates, Section Three, for 13 August the 8th, 2004, at 10 a.m. Any question or 14 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 15 your right hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Next 20 Item, Number 6, consider and discuss authorizing Road and 21 Bridge to temporarily close Ehlers Road at the north side of 22 the Guadalupe River. Commissioner Letz. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I put this on the agenda 24 for a couple reasons, and I put some backup where I tried to 25 give a little bit of history. This is a -- a very low-water 6-28-04 20 1 crossing, like Hermann Sons Road and Lane Valley. It 2 serves -- well, two property owners use the road to access 3 their property. The bridge has been underwater for the 4 better part of the last two months, if not longer than that, 5 so there's a -- a public safety issue that -- to close that 6 from a temporary standpoint. There's another issue, that 7 one of the property owners bought the property about a year 8 ago; they have documentation that that is actually a private 9 road, not a county road. I think they're wrong on that, but 10 I think that it's a -- and the reason I think it's wrong is 11 that -- I think, originally, they were probably correct; it 12 was a private, but the County has expended funds on that 13 bridge for I know at least 20 years, based on talking to 14 prior Commissioners and Road and Bridge Department. And I 15 think, because of that length of time, and the fact that 16 we've spent funds -- public funds on that bridge, I think 17 that is a public -- a County-owned bridge. 18 TexDOT shows it as a -- it's under the 19 Off-System Bridge Program. They have it on their list to 20 replace it at some point as a Priority 2 replacement, which 21 means it's important, but not scheduled. The -- one of the 22 property owners -- or, I guess, two property owners 23 together, they've put a gate up on the north side of the 24 river to prevent you from crossing the bridge. They had a 25 lock on it. I instructed Road and Bridge to cut the lock 6-28-04 21 1 off till we resolved it, but I did tell the property owner 2 that I have no problem with temporarily authorizing closing 3 the gate, and I really don't have a problem putting the lock 4 on it until the river goes down, give us a little bit of 5 time to sort out if it's a private bridge, and more 6 importantly, from a safety standpoint, to make sure there's 7 no access across the bridge until the river goes down some. 8 And it -- and I would say, with these recent rains, all of 9 July it will be underwater. Very low-water bridge. So, 10 I'll make a motion that we authorize the gate being closed 11 across Ehlers Road on the north side of the river, and if 12 the owner so chooses to put a lock on that gate for a 13 temporary -- on a temporary basis, I would say this would 14 expire -- we'll revisit this the first of August. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 18 approval of the agenda item. Is there any further questions 19 or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 20 raising your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We 25 have a timed item now at 9:30. Consider, discuss a plan to 6-28-04 22 1 establish BB gun target range on Hill Country Youth Exhibit 2 Center grounds. Commissioner Williams? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Last week, our friend 4 Arthur Nagle came to visit me with his idea regarding a BB 5 gun target range, and I indicated to him I would place it on 6 the agenda and give him an opportunity to come explain his 7 idea to all of our -- all members of the Court. Even though 8 the newspaper reported it as my idea, it is Arthur's idea. 9 Come talk to us, Arthur, please. 10 MR. NAGLE: I would like to, for the 11 record -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, let's get his 13 microphone up in his mouth, make sure he's turned on. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's on. 15 MR. NAGLE: Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Speak up, Arthur. 17 MR. NAGLE: All right. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There you go. 19 MR. NAGLE: Okay. For the record, my name is 20 Arthur Nagle. I'm a resident of Kerrville, Texas; also of 21 Kerr County, Texas. And I want to thank Commissioner 22 Williams for the publicity in this morning's paper about 23 establishing a BB rifle target range for public usage. He 24 referred to an organization. To this point, I am that 25 organization. But as soon as we have a place to put the BB 6-28-04 23 1 rifle range, we will have an organization that not only you, 2 but the entire area will be proud of. What we are 3 proposing, gentlemen, is a sports facility available to the 4 entire family. We're proposing a BB gun rifle range; no 5 pellet guns, no .22's, just BB guns. You have before you 6 the configuration of the range. We would like to place the 7 range on the area of the Youth Center east of town, so we 8 can make it available to the youth of the town arriving by 9 bicycle and walking and so forth. 10 The organization that will construct this 11 range will have a number of officers. One of them will be a 12 team facilitator. We propose to have adult teams using the 13 BB gun range. We propose to have youth, both as teams and 14 as individuals, use the range. It will be in operation only 15 during the daytime; be no electricity, no nighttime 16 shooting. We're going to ask you gentlemen if the range can 17 be built on the youth property out there so that the 18 Sheriff's deputies, as they patrol, can also pass around and 19 see if everything is okay and continues to be okay at the 20 range. One of the officers in the organization will be a 21 team facilitator. This person will get many more persons to 22 work with them in developing teams of BB rifle shooters in 23 the local businesses, churches, clubs, schools, for the sake 24 of friendly and real wholesome competition. One day, we may 25 see teams of four Baptist against four Presbyterians. My 6-28-04 24 1 goodness. 2 Mr. Mitchell, the sports director of the 3 daytime, has counseled with me, and would like to see this 4 happen. He would like to see youth from our various high 5 schools in this area. We can almost have competition only 6 within our high schools. When we -- if you approve of 7 having the range, gentlemen, at opening time I will try to 8 have Ms. Crenwelge from Fredericksburg High School, a very 9 fine young lady that's about 17 years of age, who has medals 10 in going for BB gun competition in other cities of Texas and 11 in other states in the southern area of the United States. 12 I would like to have our youth be qualified, have a place 13 where they could practice in order that they might 14 participate also in state competitions, in district 15 competitions. In the act of shooting -- in the act of 16 shooting, they will learn sportsmanship, they will learn 17 marksmanship, they will learn appreciation and safeguarding 18 and the protection of public property. They will be able to 19 encourage their fellow youth to come down to the range and 20 shoot, instead of shooting at birds on power lines or 21 shooting at ducks on the river or shooting at someone's pets 22 that they decide they don't like. 23 Every time the range is used, there will have 24 to be posted notices that there must be an adult present who 25 will be known as the Range Boss. The Range Boss will be 6-28-04 25 1 responsible for telling shooters, whether they be adults or 2 whether they be youths, "Down weapons." When that occurs, 3 every shooter puts their weapon down on the shooting 4 platform, and people go and retrieve their paper targets and 5 work on them, check on them, return to the shooting stand, 6 and no one touches a weapon until the Range Boss says, 7 "Weapons up." We want this to teach safety, teach 8 responsibility, make it possible for mama and daddy to go 9 with the youth at the same time and practice on the range, 10 because we hope mama and daddy will someday be a member on a 11 team for their church or their club or their business. And 12 we'll see if sellers of Ken Stoepel Ford can beat the 13 sellers of Cadillacs up the street, and put that in the 14 paper. Mr. Mitchell will be very supportive of us. Mr. Roy 15 Walston has been working with me. We will have 4-H members 16 using the target range that would be constructed. 17 I'm here to ask you the following: One, that 18 one of you or all of you help in selecting the site of the 19 range on the Youth Center. I picked out a spot that I 20 believe is appropriate, but it's your property, and you 21 should agree or tell me no, we'll do it some other place. 22 Second, I think the range will cost about $4,000 or $5,000, 23 because of the amount of hay for the backstop of BB's and 24 the shooting platforms. I'm asking the County to pay 25 $3,000. I personally will pay all the balance above $3,000 6-28-04 26 1 in getting this established. I believe this will bring 2 families and youth together in a sport that both families 3 and youth can participate in. I believe that, in time, we 4 can have people come to Kerrville for competition shooting 5 for the benefit of Kerr County and Kerrville, and I would 6 like to see our youth be given the opportunity to go to 7 other cities and other states in time and receive medals for 8 their marksmanship. That's my offer to you gentlemen. 9 Everybody -- everybody will be shooting on -- on a standard 10 BB gun range target. All a person needs is an inexpensive 11 BB gun and a packet of BB's and a target. You can put 10 12 holes in this target with 10 BB's, and you will have 13 expended 5 cents, 3 cents on the BB's and 2 cents on this 14 piece of paper. Very inexpensive, and it will give 15 everybody an equal chance to not sit in the bleachers and 16 watch their kids, but actually stand and shoot from the 17 shooting stands along with their children. Thank you, 18 gentlemen, for your time. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mr. Nagle, I think 20 it's a great idea. I have -- I still have two Red Ryders at 21 my house. 22 MR. NAGLE: Oh. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I use one, but the 24 other one still has a little leather strap on it. There's 25 two things I'd like to see happen. I mean, I like the idea. 6-28-04 27 1 Two things. I'd like to see the organization in place. 2 Seems like, to me, the -- to approve something without the 3 organization being in place is kind of the cart pulling the 4 horse. It's just my opinion. But I would think that you 5 could get with Mr. Holekamp back there; that's his job, and 6 then I'm sure Mr. Williams is wanting to get involved in the 7 thing, being as it's his precinct, to find a place -- a good 8 location on the property, and then bring it back to 9 Commissioners Court. That's -- that's what I'd like to see 10 happen. 11 MR. NAGLE: To fill in the Court with respect 12 to the organization, I made the point that I'm the whole 13 organization at this moment, but as soon as we have a place 14 to have a range, and as soon as -- yes, sir? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Arthur, you mentioned 16 having spoken with Roy Walston of the Extension Service. 17 And -- and touching on the subject that Commissioner Baldwin 18 referenced as being the organization that oversees this, I'm 19 wondering whether or not this particular effort couldn't 20 fall under 4-H, 'cause they do already have a range program. 21 MR. NAGLE: Yes. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And they have people 23 in place, and they have activities and so forth. Could this 24 not -- 25 MR. NAGLE: Very -- 6-28-04 28 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- fall under them 2 and be another adjunct to what they currently do? 3 MR. NAGLE: Very definitely, Commissioner. 4 The organization that we propose is a president, vice 5 president, secretary, treasurer, a team solicitor, and a 6 reporter. It could be that every person on this 7 organization officer area will be from and involved in the 8 4-H activities. He is very much -- he was not able -- in 9 the packet that I provided you, I gave you some petitions 10 where people signed asking for this. I received those 11 petitions from Gibson's store, where BB rifles are also 12 sold. Walmart has a set of BB rifles also, but they do not 13 have a -- a policy -- their policy prohibits having 14 petitions or the distribution of papers to customers on 15 their premises. And Mr. -- and Roy was out, I believe, in 16 San Angelo at a sheep/goat contest, judging, and therefore 17 did not get -- people did not come to his office, 'cause 18 they knew he was out of town. But he -- he would like to 19 get -- and I support wholeheartedly that we can have just 20 nothing but 4-H families as the officers, and there'll be 21 times when the range will be exclusively, you might say, for 22 4-H boys and girls. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If the other members 24 of the Court don't have any objection, Arthur, I'm going to 25 suggest that you and I and Mr. Holekamp set up a meeting 6-28-04 29 1 with Roy Walston and Laurinda Boyd and talk about whether or 2 not this could fall under their purview as an adjunct to 3 their range program, and see where that takes us. But why 4 don't I try to set that meeting up? We'll try to do that 5 after the 4th of July. 6 MR. NAGLE: Yes. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There will be enough 8 fireworks going on without that. And then we'll get 9 together and we'll chat out there and see how it fits. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that's a good 11 approach. I think it's a -- trying to fit it under a 12 current organization is certainly a lot easier than creating 13 a new organization. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's my thought. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That would be better. 16 And the only other comment that I would have related to the 17 funding, I'm not sure whether 4-H funding is -- I would be a 18 little bit reluctant, I think, to spend tax dollars on a 19 range. However, we do have community service; we do have 20 trustees that do work for us, and I would be, you know, more 21 than happy to authorize the labor side of it, and the labor 22 is probably 50 percent, if not more, of the cost. And then 23 we can get, through donations, hopefully, not just all from 24 Mr. Nagle, the materials that we require. But I think I'd 25 just probably get donations for that as well. 6-28-04 30 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll get back to you. 2 MR. NAGLE: Thank you, sir. Thank you very 3 much. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: We appreciate you being here, 5 Mr. Nagle. Good to see you. The next item to take up will 6 be Item 8, revision of plat for Tracts 12 and 13 of Hidden 7 Valley Ranch. 8 MS. ALFORD: You have the public hearing 9 first. 1.7 is with 1.8, correct? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Correct. Let me withdraw 11 that. I apologize. Let's go to Item 9, consider final for 12 alternate plat of Lot 13, Riverside Park, Precinct 4. 13 MR. JOHNSTON: This was a plat revision 14 consisting of dividing a lot into a 5.28-acre tract and a 15 14.16-acre tract. It's already had a public hearing. I 16 recommend approval. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move approval for 18 alternate plat of Lot 13, Riverside Park, Precinct 4. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 21 approval of the agenda item. Any question or discussion? 22 All in favor of the motion, please signify by raising your 23 right hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6-28-04 31 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We'll 3 move on to Item 10, consider and discuss establishing 4 policies governing the use of the courthouse building and 5 grounds. I placed this item on the agenda. As part of our 6 strategic planning earlier this year, that was one item that 7 the members of the Court thought was appropriate to be part 8 of that overall strategic planning, and for that reason, I 9 put it on the agenda and prepared the draft. I have one 10 item to add that was omitted at the time I prepared the 11 draft on the courthouse building. There's a third exception 12 that has been taking place here for some time, and that's 13 mock trial and other legal education programs. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, let me ask you 15 a question. What about -- what about the elected officials? 16 Some of us serve on nonprofit boards and committees, and 17 having that type of meeting in the courthouse? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: To the extent that it relates, 19 either directly or indirectly, to County business, I can 20 certainly see why it would be appropriate. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, just -- just as 22 an example, Leadership Kerr County. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's a good one. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: They come around, but they 25 don't necessarily meet here. But they come around. 6-28-04 32 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, but I'm just using 2 that as an example. If I -- hmm, don't use me. David 3 Motley is the only other elected official in the room. If 4 Motley was a member or the chairman of Leadership Kerr 5 County, and he wanted to have one of their monthly meetings 6 in the courthouse, would that be -- would the Leadership 7 Kerr County be excluded as a nonprofit organization? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Using of the -- the building 9 itself? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: There's a possibility it might 12 fall under a -- some sort of legal education program, but I 13 would suspect not. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I guess that's 15 the only place that -- I mean, I like your document, but 16 that may be the only place that I could -- you and I will 17 differ on the issue, is that. I kind of think those kind of 18 things should happen if an elected official so chooses. I'm 19 not talking about the Second Baptist Church of Houston. I'm 20 talking about Leadership Kerr County; I'm talking about 21 Crisis Council -- Hill Country Crisis Council and those 22 kinds of things. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Crisis Council, I think, if 24 I'm not mistaken, is one of our -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It is. 6-28-04 33 1 JUDGE TINLEY: -- County-sponsored 2 activities, and relates to assistance in some of our court 3 programs. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: I think that one would be -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right, let me 7 remove the specifics, then, and just use the -- use the 8 term, "nonprofit." A nonprofit organization. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I think then you've got the 10 Second Baptist Church of Houston. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have another 13 illustration, following up on yours. What about League of 14 Women Voters? What if they wanted to conduct a forum in the 15 big courtroom? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Legal education. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They would qualify? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I noted, under Item 20 2 -- Judge, I have a sort of a suggestion. When you talk 21 about "meetings or hearings conducted by other governmental 22 entities (example; public hearings conducted by Texas Parks 23 and Wildlife)," there are other examples that may not 24 necessarily be governmental entities conducting them, but 25 they are -- they are or would be required by one or others 6-28-04 34 1 of -- of our several governmental codes. For example, 2 public hearings conducted by Grantworks on some of the 3 things they have worked with the County on with respect to 4 the sewer project and other things they're working with us. 5 Now, they're not a governmental agency; they're working with 6 and for us, but the hearings are required by -- by whatever 7 governmental codes that govern the giving of those moneys or 8 that type of entity. So, I'm wondering, I think, whether 9 the intent would be better served if we talked about 10 meetings or hearings as required by the various government 11 codes. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I think you've got essentially 13 the same situation -- I have no problem with that. In your 14 Grantworks example, they're actually conducting the public 15 hearing on behalf of Kerr County, pursuant to the directive 16 of the -- of the codes. But certainly, substituting "by 17 other governmental entities" to "conducting pursuant to 18 requirements of statutes or codes," I have no problem with 19 that. None whatsoever. That -- that's government business. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I really hate -- I mean, 21 I don't think it's a big issue, but I -- I don't see how 22 this Court can allow mock trial and other legal education, 23 and then not allow everybody else. What if it's debate team 24 that wants to use it? What if, you know, anybody -- I don't 25 see how you can, all of a sudden, just say only if you're 6-28-04 35 1 going to do legal things can you use it. I think any -- 2 either it's all nonprofit or it's no nonprofit. And if we 3 -- I think mock trial cannot get an exception. You either 4 have to -- and I think mock trial should use it, personally. 5 And I think debate team should use it. I think that other 6 -- you know, other school-type things -- I guess that could 7 come under governmental entities, you know. But I think -- 8 and I think the mock trial could probably use it as 9 governmental entity, the school U.I.L. So, I think that if 10 you -- if you start -- if you're going to have a policy, you 11 can't make exceptions. It's either got to be, you know, for 12 everyone, you know, or you open it up to everyone. I mean, 13 you can't just say legal education, to me, 'cause I don't 14 see how that -- you know, 4-H, that's County; I guess you 15 could do it, but there's other things I'm sure that can -- 16 if I sat around long enough -- sewer education. I mean, you 17 know, it's -- 18 JUDGE TINLEY: My response to that would be, 19 draw a line through the mock trial and legal programs. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, and I -- you know, 21 I hate to see mock trial not be allowed to use it, but I 22 don't see how -- I can't vote to let -- allow them and 23 nobody else. You know, I think governmental entities can be 24 very broadly construed. That would -- in my mind, I think I 25 could justify that to be any school activity as a part of 6-28-04 36 1 the governmental entity. I was going through water hearings 2 and other things, but those can come under water -- under 3 governmental entities as well, so I think you could probably 4 allow mock trial under governmental entities, but delete it 5 as an explicit exception. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I have no problem with that. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You don't have any 8 problem with what? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Drawing a line through mock 10 trial. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I -- 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Legal education. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I do. We've had 14 mock trials in this building for -- and kids have been in 15 the national finals because of the -- they get to use the 16 actual -- these courtrooms. And I -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I said mock trial can use 18 it under governmental entities. They don't need to be -- I 19 don't think there's any change. I think -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, you're going to 21 tell the District Judges that you are recommending that mock 22 trial -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: No, I'm not doing that. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You don't recommend 25 that? 6-28-04 37 1 JUDGE TINLEY: No. What I'm saying is, in 2 the last paragraph, if -- if they don't feel like it's 3 adequately covered, they can come seek specific permission. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, but I'm saying they 5 are covered. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. It's -- it's 7 not an exception; it's covered under the general rule. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I see it as covered under 9 the exception under meetings and hearings conducted by other 10 governmental entities. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's a meeting of the 13 school. It's a U.I.L. function. And if it's a sanctioned 14 school event, to me, that's a governmental entity. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let me -- I've 16 thought of about four examples. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Good interpretation. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I've thought of 19 about four examples where I've used the courthouse 20 facilities. I want to make sure that -- that they're 21 covered. I would use it to meet with O.S.S.F. contractors. 22 If we use it and continue to use it for the emergency 23 service district meetings, for volunteer fire department 24 issues, meeting with representatives from -- from 25 subdivisions about subdivision issues, all of these kind of 6-28-04 38 1 things would continue to be an official government use, and 2 in performance of a Commissioner's job? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure. They're either 4 government entities, or it's in furtherance of county 5 business, relates to county business. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think -- I agree; I 7 think every item that you mentioned. But I think, to make 8 it clear about the U.I.L. issue, you could add "meetings or 9 hearings conducted by other governmental entities, including 10 school." 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I think he's 12 going to refine that Number 2 to kick in what -- the 13 requirements that might come out of government codes, which 14 would cover that as well. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think, you know, 16 sanctioned school activities is a governmental entity, to 17 me. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What if you had -- I 19 mean, I'm going to have a town hall meeting with my 20 constituents. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's under -- 22 JUDGE TINLEY: County business. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're going to talk 24 about Second Baptist Church of Houston. No, I'm just 25 joking. Let me ask you this, now. What is -- when the 6-28-04 39 1 Sheriff's going to drive by at nighttime and see lights on 2 in the courthouse, and he's going to get his binoculars out 3 and try to decide whether it's a County -- County government 4 meeting or not, are we going to handcuff everybody and -- or 5 what's going to happen here? How are you going to -- I 6 mean, how is all this -- just trust? We're going to trust 7 the people that work in the courthouse? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Right now we don't have a 9 policy, apparently. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Let's -- we're 11 going to adopt a policy today, and then how are we going to 12 follow up to know that these people are not having some kind 13 of church meeting in here? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mr. Holekamp's going 15 to do that. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Glenn's going to sit 17 up here in the middle of the night, check everybody's I.D., 18 and -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Way I look at it, you've 20 got to have a key to the courthouse to have a meeting here 21 after hours. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, elected 23 officials do. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, and they do. And 25 I -- and I think that you can -- this is broad enough that 6-28-04 40 1 there are very few things that I think you couldn't meet on, 2 and that's why I don't have a problem with it. I think that 3 if you're meeting with a group of your constituents, you 4 know, I don't see how you can hardly -- you know, do much. 5 I mean, I think there's -- see, I think the intent is, you 6 know, to prevent me from opening up for the Kerrville Little 7 League to have a meeting here. That's what we're trying to 8 stop. If I want to meet with my constituents about a flood, 9 or if Paula Rector wants to meet with some people about 10 something, you know, almost everything we do with the public 11 is governmentally related, and I think this is a broad 12 enough policy that it is -- prevents some usage -- uses that 13 I think we're concerned about. But it allows every elected 14 official to use it, you know, almost whenever they want to. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree. I'm on 16 board. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Judge, I'm not 18 opposed to it. I'm certainly in support of your document 19 here. I just wanted to make sure that we all are on the 20 same -- same horse here and the same leg, that's all. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm not inflexible. I just -- 22 just want to get somewhere to start. Then, if we need to do 23 some refinement later on, why, we can do that. What I've 24 done, under Number 2, "Meetings or hearings conducted by 25 other governmental entities as may be required by state 6-28-04 41 1 statutes or codes." 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's fine. Good. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: We may want to say, you know, 4 "may be required under state law," and that -- that gets it 5 a whole lot broader. If you are -- you've got, for example, 6 regulations, T.C.E.Q. That's not state statutes or code, 7 but they may be promulgated by that. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Whatever gives us the 9 broadest -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: "May be required under state 11 or federal law." 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There you go. That's 13 fine. Whatever gives the broadest latitude. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: To conduct business 16 that affects the County. That's fine. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did I hear you move 18 for adoption? Go on, make a motion. Do it. Go for it. 19 Come on, Judge, do it. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What did you have to 21 eat for breakfast this morning? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Nothing. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: It's not what he had to eat. 24 He may have had something else he ingested there. 25 Mr. Holekamp, you had a comment? 6-28-04 42 1 MR. HOLEKAMP: I understand what y'all are 2 trying to get to, but what is -- who's going to be 3 responsible for unlocking, locking, and if it's not locked 4 up and they call me in the middle of the night to come down 5 here, is somebody going to schedule this building for these 6 meetings? Or is this just like -- if -- if Commissioner 7 Baldwin decides he's going to have a meeting, he calls his 8 friends over, we're going to have a meeting. We don't know. 9 Something has to happen for us to know when people are 10 supposed to be in here. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let me respond to that, 12 if I might. 13 MR. HOLEKAMP: Okay. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Under the procedure, when any 15 portion of the building is to be used under any of these 16 exceptions, the use shall be accomplished with prior 17 permission and coordinated with the Facilities Director and 18 courthouse Commissioners Court liaison, with the right to 19 make imposed reasonable conditions and requirements 20 concerning security, cleanup -- 21 MR. HOLEKAMP: Okay. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: -- and so forth. 23 MR. HOLEKAMP: All right. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: In that regard -- 25 MR. HOLEKAMP: As far as permission is 6-28-04 43 1 concerned, I don't need to give permission. If -- if it's 2 pretty much plain on what y'all are going to do, an elected 3 official wishes to use the building -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: How about prior knowledge 5 and -- 6 MR. HOLEKAMP: Prior knowledge is necessary, 7 but not -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 9 MR. HOLEKAMP: -- permission, I don't think, 10 is going to be a requirement. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Who is the 12 facilities liaison? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's the Judge. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Right now, it's me. Those are 15 selected annually. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Just like the Animal Control 18 or EMS or the others. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I move to approve. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 22 approval. Let me -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Read back? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me tell you what I've 25 changed here under Number 2 of the exceptions. "Meetings or 6-28-04 44 1 hearings conducted by other governmental entities or as may 2 be required under state or federal law." And then, in the 3 next paragraph, "When any portion of the courthouse building 4 is to be used under the exceptions noted above, such use 5 shall be accomplished with prior knowledge and 6 coordination..." 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's part of my 8 motion. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any -- any other 10 question or discussion? All in favor of the motion as 11 stated, signify by raising your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm excited. We've been 17 working on these courthouse rules for, I think, six years. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Finally got it. 19 Simple is better. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: I will now recess the 21 Commissioners Court meeting, and I will convene a public 22 hearing for -- in connection with the revision of a plat for 23 Tracts 12 and 13 of Hidden Valley Ranch 1 in Volume 4, Page 24 33. 25 / 6-28-04 45 1 (The regular Commissioners Court meeting was closed at 10:06 a.m., and a public hearing 2 was held in open court, as follows:) 3 P U B L I C H E A R I N G 4 JUDGE TINLEY: This is a timed item for 5 10 o'clock. It's a few minutes after now. Is there any 6 member of the public that wishes to be heard in connection 7 with the proposed revision of plat for Tracts 12 and 13 of 8 Hidden Valley Ranch 1? Is there any member of the public 9 that wishes to be heard on this item? 10 MR. BRANDENBURG: Yes, sir. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, sir. Please come 12 forward. Give your name to the reporter, and let us know 13 what's on your mind. 14 MR. BRANDENBURG: My name is Gary 15 Brandenberg, and I am the land surveyor that is actually 16 preparing that plat. I may not have been understanding your 17 question correctly. I'm here to represent that revision of 18 plat, but if -- I believe you said you're going to have to 19 recess and reconvene and then hear it? Is that correct? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: That's generally the way the 21 procedure works, yes, sir. 22 MR. BRANDENBURG: Okay. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: We're required by law to -- 24 when we go into a public hearing mode, we've got to recess 25 the meeting that's underway, go into a public hearing mode. 6-28-04 46 1 Then, once that's completed, we close the public hearing and 2 go back in our meeting. 3 MR. BRANDENBURG: Oh, okay. I apologize for 4 my misunderstanding. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Not a problem. It is a little 6 convoluted, but we get there. 7 MR. BRANDENBURG: Okay. Thank you, sir. 8 (Discussion off the record.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there any -- any other 10 member of the public that wishes to be heard with regard to 11 the proposed revision of the plat for Tracts 12 and 13 of 12 Hidden Valley Ranch 1? If not, I will close the public 13 hearing, and I will reconvene the Commissioners Court 14 hearing scheduled for this date. 15 (The public hearing was concluded at 10:08 a.m., and the regular Commissioners Court 16 meeting was reopened.) 17 - - - - - - - - - - 18 JUDGE TINLEY: And we will move on to Item 8, 19 to consider the revision of plat for Tracts 12 and 13 of 20 Hidden Valley Ranch 1. 21 MR. JOHNSTON: This plat consisted of moving 22 a lot line between 12 and 13 by about 50 feet, little over 23 50 feet. I have no problem with the plat. The only caveat 24 is, Gary Brandenburg showed me his mylar. All the signature 25 blocks are not signed, so we can either, A, approve it 6-28-04 47 1 contingent to getting the signatures, or B, do it another 2 meeting. Court's pleasure. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why aren't they 4 signed, Gary? 5 MR. BRANDENBURG: Basically, ignorance on my 6 part. I -- this would be the first time I've done a plat in 7 this format or forum. Previous plats I've done, we have 8 received approval and then gathered up the signatures and -- 9 and took them over to be recorded at the County Clerk's 10 office. And -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, the reason we do 12 it this way is so that we will know that everything is done 13 before we do a final vote and court order and, you know, the 14 whole official deal, that everybody's signed off on it and 15 everything is cool. We might be able to pull it off here. 16 Let's see what happens. 17 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Y'all having your 19 private meeting over there? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: We were looking at the wrong 21 plat. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are the signatures in 24 place for this? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, on this plat they 6-28-04 48 1 are, but -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: This is the wrong plat. 3 MR. JOHNSTON: Those -- that's 1 and 2 that 4 we did earlier this morning. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not a problem. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, what you're asking 7 us -- you're asking the Judge to sign off -- to go ahead and 8 sign it? See -- 9 MR. JOHNSTON: No, I'm not. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- I don't see how 11 that works. 12 MR. JOHNSTON: I'm not asking that. We can 13 either -- you can either -- it's your choice. You can 14 approve it contingently; let him go get his signatures, 15 bring them to me, and then I'll bring it to the Court for 16 the Judge's signature. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So you're not going to 18 sign it until everybody else is signed off on it, right? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: If that's a motion to -- 21 MR. JOHNSTON: Or postpone it. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: -- approve it with my signing 23 it contingent upon all signatories signing it -- 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll go along with 25 that. 6-28-04 49 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that a motion? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll also -- let's 3 get this straight. It's in Precinct 1, not Precinct 2, as 4 the public hearing court order indicated. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for approval. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Move for approval of 8 that, contingent upon the signatures of all the -- what do 9 we call them? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Other signatories. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Other signatories. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I second it. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: And that I be authorized to 14 sign it once all those others have signed it? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Motion made and 17 seconded for approval of the agenda item as stated. Any 18 further question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, 19 signify by raising your right hand. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. The 24 next item on the agenda is consider and discuss approving 25 Commissioner Precinct 1 to develop a plan for the 6-28-04 50 1 utilization of the fountain in front of the courthouse. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's about it. I 3 don't need a court order. If I can just -- you know, I -- 4 the thing is sitting out there, nonfunctional for how many 5 years, Glenn? 6 MR. HOLEKAMP: Three and a half. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Three and a half 8 years. It's just sitting there doing nothing, and it needs 9 to do something, and so -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I was going to ask 11 you a question. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are we going to make 14 a fountain out of it, or tear that bugger down? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I don't know. I 16 think I'd like to see a putting green there. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, I love that. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just bought his 19 vote, didn't I? I don't know what's going to happen. 20 That's why -- you know, if you guys just kind of give me 21 permission to go and look and see, I'll come back with two 22 or three plans and some ideas. Of course, I think step one 23 is for us to go and -- for me to go and talk to the family 24 that donated it to make sure that -- that it's okay. And 25 I'm sure that they would agree, because it's sitting there 6-28-04 51 1 nonfunctioning, so we can do something better than -- better 2 than what we have today. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I move that we allow 4 Commissioner Baldwin to develop a plan for utilization. 5 That means using it, right? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's correct. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Of the fountain in 8 front of the courthouse. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I may have to hire 10 some lawyers and architects and things like that. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll second that motion. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 13 approval of the agenda item. Any further questions or 14 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 15 your right hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank y'all so much. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I've got a new idea, too. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Do we need to add you to the 23 organization committee? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He is already there. 6-28-04 52 1 Just -- I didn't put his name there, 'cause I wanted all the 2 glory and fame out of this thing. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: I see. Do we have anything to 4 go into executive session about, Mr. Motley? 5 MR. MOTLEY: That's been a time for periodic 6 updates, I guess. If you want a periodic update, I can give 7 you updates on matters. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: What we may do is come back to 9 that, possibly. What's the consensus of the Court on that? 10 Do you want to come back to anything that we may have for 11 executive session so we can go ahead and get the public 12 business done first? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We can pay our bills 14 and all those things first, yeah. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's get on down to 16 the approval agenda, if we might, please. First item is 17 payment of the bills. Mr. Auditor? 18 MR. TOMLINSON: Good morning. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move we pay our 20 bills. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 23 the payment of the bills. I have a couple of questions, if 24 I might, Mr. Auditor. On Page 7 -- 25 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. 6-28-04 53 1 JUDGE TINLEY: -- on-site council fee under 2 Environmental Health. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good question. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I've got the same 5 question, Judge. And I was hoping maybe Miguel would be 6 here, or maybe somebody else could answer it. 7 MR. TOMLINSON: I can't answer that. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Looks like it's a quarterly 9 requirement, by the dates that are noted there. But -- 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think it's 11 something that's required by regulation. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I suspect -- 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: But we need to know 14 the answer to that, so we'll -- let's get to that in the 15 budget process. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Next item that I have 17 is on Page 8. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, excuse me. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm sorry. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are we going to pay 21 that bill today? Or what -- are y'all saying hold it out or 22 what? 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We have been paying 24 it, and that's all I can tell you. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 6-28-04 54 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I asked the question 2 once, and I think the answer I got was it's part of the 3 T.C.E.Q. regulations for the O.S.S.F. administrator to pay a 4 research fee. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think that's true. 6 I think you're right. Okay. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: The other question I have is 8 on Page 8, Youth Exhibit Center, the very first one. 9 Installing new ice machine-slash-labor. Does that include 10 the cost of the machine too? 11 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, okay. 13 MR. HOLEKAMP: That was out of the current 14 fund. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. But that amount is not 16 just labor; it also includes the cost of the machine? 17 MR. HOLEKAMP: What was the amount? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: $2,920. 19 MR. HOLEKAMP: It's all of it. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, thank you. That's all 21 the questions I have. Anybody else have any questions? 22 MR. TOMLINSON: That's from the hotel tax 23 money. 24 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yeah. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, mm-hmm. But if it was 6-28-04 55 1 just labor, I -- I don't care where it came from. It was a 2 little high. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, yeah, it would be. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 5 MR. TOMLINSON: No doubt about that. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and second to 7 pay the bills. Any further questions or discussion? All in 8 favor, signify by raising your right hand. 9 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Next 13 we have budget amendments. Budget Amendment Number 1. 14 MR. TOMLINSON: This is a request from Glenn 15 Holekamp to transfer $2,500 from Trash line item to Building 16 and Grounds Maintenance. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What is -- what is it? 18 MR. HOLEKAMP: We're running out of money in 19 the -- the Grounds Maintenance. We're running a little -- 20 since we changed contracts on our trash pickup this year, 21 we're saving quite a bit of money from last year's budget. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's general 23 maintenance we're talking about? Light bulbs and -- 24 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 6-28-04 56 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 3 approval of Budget Amendment Request Number 1. Any further 4 question or discussion? All in favor, signify by raising 5 your right hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 10 Budget Amendment Request Number 2. 11 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 2 is for the Jail and 12 the Sheriff's Department. For the jail, the Sheriff's 13 requesting to transfer $349.37 from Group Insurance to 14 Operating Equipment. For the Sheriff's Office, his request 15 is to transfer $1,092.14 from Group Insurance for the 16 Sheriff's Office, $724.64 in Operating Expenses and $367.50 17 for Vehicle Repair and Maintenance. I do have a late bill 18 to go along with this for $2,200; it's payable to Powerware, 19 and it's for the replacement of a battery system for the 20 console in the jail. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: And who was the payee again? 22 MR. TOMLINSON: Powerware. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Powerware? 24 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for approval. 6-28-04 57 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 3 approval of Budget Amendment Request Number 2, and also 4 seeking a hand check and late bill, approval of a hand check 5 and hand check -- late bill and hand check in the amount of 6 $2,200 to Powerware. 7 MR. TOMLINSON: That's right. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any further question or 9 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 10 your right hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Any 15 late bills? Excuse me. 16 MR. TOMLINSON: I have another amendment. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Excuse me, we got Budget 18 Amendment Request Number 3. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: Right. This is for the 198th 20 District Court. We have a request to transfer $64 from 21 Special Trials to Books, Publications, and Dues. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 25 budget -- approval of Budget Amendment Request Number 3. 6-28-04 58 1 Any question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, 2 signify by raising your right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Now, 7 do we have any late bills? 8 MR. TOMLINSON: I do have one. It's a 9 reimbursement to Paula Rector, the Tax Collector, for 10 $346.31. That's to reimburse her personally for the 11 purchase of -- of a software package by the name of Quick 12 Books Pro. It's for her bookkeeping system for -- for her 13 office. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: How much? 15 MR. TOMLINSON: $346.31. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just for my own 17 edification, did she go through our guru? Help me with 18 the -- 19 MR. TOMLINSON: No, this -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Information Specialist. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Information 22 Specialist. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: This is off-the-shelf 24 software that you can buy at Walmart or -- or Hastings. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I thought -- 6-28-04 59 1 MR. TOMLINSON: It's not a -- it's not -- the 2 software does not go on our -- on our system. It's a 3 PC-driven in-house bookkeeping system, tracks her -- her 4 checks and bank accounts. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How does that comport 6 with our new Information Technology rules and policy we put 7 in place? 8 MR. TOMLINSON: It's a replacement. She 9 already had it, and she's been using this -- this software 10 for four or five years. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's budgeted, correct? 12 MR. TOMLINSON: No, it's -- something 13 happened to the -- to the software. I mean, it's just an 14 update for -- for the license for 2004. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's already in 16 place? 17 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's stand-alone; it 19 doesn't interact with any other systems. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: I have it on my own computer. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 6-28-04 60 1 approval of a late bill and authorize hand check in the 2 amount of $326.31 (sic) to Paula Rector. Any further 3 question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify 4 by raising your right hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. I 9 have before me some monthly reports from Justice of the 10 Peace, Precinct 1 and Justice of the Peace, Precinct 2. Do 11 I hear a motion that these reports be approved as submitted? 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So moved. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 15 approval of the reports as submitted. Any further question 16 or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 17 raising your right hand. 18 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: We are up to the informational 22 aspects of the agenda. Do you have anything to pass along 23 to us, Commissioner Letz, that you've not done so 24 previously? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Only thing would be 6-28-04 61 1 really the airport meeting scheduled for tomorrow, where we 2 hope to resolve some of the outstanding issues in governance 3 of the airport. My only other question is, the format for 4 our workshop on Wednesday. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just what your thoughts 7 were. How -- I mean, just general discussion? Or -- just 8 so I'm prepared properly for it. That's my -- 9 JUDGE TINLEY: My understanding was that we 10 were going to talk about general philosophies and -- and 11 approaches and major category items, and then also take a 12 look at some capital outlay items that may have been 13 requested by the various elected officials or department 14 heads, outside of the normal budgeting categories. That was 15 my understanding of what we were going to do the initial 16 section on. I've asked Ms. Mitchell to try and get -- 17 prepare a summary of those particular items. She may not 18 have seen it yet, but it is on a tape that I did this 19 weekend, to go through and pull out those capital outlay 20 items so that we can have that as a summary to look at. 21 That was my understanding. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's good. That's 23 exactly -- I was just curious on the format, mainly, and the 24 capital outlay items; make sure that somebody other than 25 myself was compiling those. Do we have any idea on any 6-28-04 62 1 report from either the Tax Assessor or Appraisal District as 2 to where we are on dollars? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: I wish I could tell you that 4 we knew what that was, but I can't. I don't even know that 5 we've got a preliminary estimate of what our revenues are 6 going to be. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I know the time for filing a 9 protest in a lot of cases is -- doesn't even run until 10 sometime into next month, approximately the middle of the 11 month. Some protest deadlines have expired. I believe it 12 was last week that they expired, a goodly number of them. 13 But I wish I had it, but I don't. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right, that's all. 15 That's enough information. I was just curious as to where 16 we were going on Monday -- or on Wednesday, and that 17 answered that. And my other -- my final comment is to the 18 other Commissioners, if they have the same problem, for lack 19 of a better word. Much of my precinct falls under Kendall 20 County Appraisal District and Kerr County -- Kerr Central 21 Appraisal District, and I've received calls from my 22 constituents; they're confused about how the appraisal 23 districts work together, and I didn't know if it's a 24 county-wide concern as to how the appraisal district works. 25 I thought maybe we'd ask Fourth to come down here and 6-28-04 63 1 explain it to the whole Court. If it's something that's 2 unique to my precinct, I'll go out to his office and try to 3 figure out how it's handled. It was just a matter -- if the 4 whole Court would like to have some kind of presentation as 5 to how he works with other counties, you know, we could do 6 it as a whole. If not, I'll do it individually. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think it would be 8 great to know that, personally. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Maybe even a little 10 broader than that. I'm pretty ignorant about how the 11 appraisal process works. I wouldn't mind hearing from -- a 12 few minutes about -- just Appraisal District 101. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd like to hear him. 15 I've had no calls about that, Commissioner, but I'd like the 16 Court to hear what he has to say. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: For the public or 18 everyone else's information, everyone who lives in the 19 Comfort School District received a notice saying that -- 20 basically, that Kerr County has nothing to do with their 21 taxes and their values; that it's all handled by Kendall 22 County, which is -- I've never received this letter before, 23 and I don't know -- it kind of surprised me. But I've 24 been -- I've had quite a few complaints about what's -- 25 "We're Kerr County taxpayers. Why is Kendall County doing 6-28-04 64 1 our values?" And I, frankly, have that same issue -- same 2 question. So -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: One of the reasons that some 4 of these protest deadlines have been extended, according to 5 my understanding, is because of this overlap. Now, with 6 regard to your specific question, that does present a very 7 interesting scenario. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The verbiage of the 9 letter is that the -- the controlling appraisal district is 10 Kendall County. And I guess -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: For properties in Kerr County 12 which fall within the Comfort School District. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Anyway, I thought, well, 14 I'll visit with Fourth and see if we can -- I know it's a 15 busy time of year for him, but see if we can schedule an 16 afternoon, maybe at our next meeting or the one after that 17 in the afternoon, to kind of go over the appraisal process 18 and how this works with other appraisal districts. And I'm 19 sure that there may be some other areas of -- you know, in 20 not as much Comfort School District, but some other school 21 districts that do -- 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In conjunction with 23 the budget meetings? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. That was 25 probably -- just schedule it, talk to him. It's an 6-28-04 65 1 interesting question. I don't know as much as I'd like to 2 know about it. Okay. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you have anything for us, 4 Commissioner Nicholson? 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Just following up on 6 Commissioner Letz' questions about the Wednesday meeting, I 7 was going to make sure that we're okay with what I plan to 8 do. I want -- I'd like to have 10 or 15 minutes to talk 9 about some of my expectations for the next budget, talk 10 about cost control, things like that. And I -- I've done 11 some work to -- to better define how Kerr County stacks up 12 compared to similarly situated counties, counties of similar 13 size and costs and programs, and so I want some time to talk 14 about that, and it may provide us some guidance or direction 15 on how we're going about budgeting. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Good. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: I think that would definitely 18 fall within the -- the overall general concept that we're 19 talking about for the initial session. Anything else? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In addition to the 22 airport task force meeting that Commissioner Letz referred 23 to, which takes place tomorrow morning, I have a meeting 24 with a representative of Texas Water Development Board 25 coming in tomorrow afternoon to talk about how, perhaps, we 6-28-04 66 1 can find some money for our preliminary planning and 2 engineering for a sewer collection system in the area of 3 Center Point, so we'll see where that takes us. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, if you'd permit 5 me, I have -- there's something I've been forgetting for the 6 last two meetings to bring up, and since we are early today, 7 I'll take a little extra liberty with time. Water planning. 8 Last Thursday, we had a -- our regional water planning 9 meeting for Region J, and two things came out of that. One 10 is that we've reshuffled, quite a bit, our membership around 11 a little bit, adding -- we created, I think, four new spots 12 to give certain entities like Headwaters specific 13 representation, and Edwards County Water District and some 14 others. Anyway, the bottom line is, we have a -- the best 15 group that actively is involved in -- region-wise that we've 16 ever had, and which is a real good thing for the regional 17 water planning. Everyone is very much involved in the whole 18 process, which is -- that's one good thing. 19 The second thing is, part of Region J's 20 budget is to help to study -- one is a spring flow study of 21 the Upper Guadalupe River and headwaters, basically all in 22 Precinct 4; Johnson Creek, North Fork and South Fork, and 23 what those springs -- and how they interact with the Edwards 24 Plateau water, the wells out on the plateau. That study is 25 underway, and I think we're probably going to, you know, try 6-28-04 67 1 to get maybe Greg Etter or someone -- maybe John Ashworth to 2 go over that at some point. It's pretty interesting what 3 things -- it's not all new information, but probably the 4 first time ever that it's been studied as a whole, and 5 really trying to figure out where exactly the headwaters 6 comes from as to where in the formation. I mean, they know 7 it comes out of the Edwards Trinity, but where -- as just 8 datum, and what layers it's coming out of, and then try -- 9 trying to take it back to the well logs up on the Edwards 10 Plateau to make sure that if wells -- additional wells start 11 to get drilled out on the plateau, because there is a huge 12 amount of water out there, what the impact to the river is, 13 or likely would be. So, it's a real interesting study 14 that's being funded by -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Who's doing the study? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Region J, John Ashworth. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ashworth is? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And it's pretty limited. 19 We don't have a whole lot of funds; we may have to ask for 20 more. This is probably the first step, but that was one 21 neat thing going on. The other one is -- 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait just a second, 23 now. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did you hear him throw 6-28-04 68 1 those words in there in the middle? You're going to be 2 asking for more -- or funding? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: From the State. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Okay. I 5 just -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Through the Water 7 Development Board. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Those are magical 9 words to my ears. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Through the Water 11 Development Board. The other special study that we had in 12 Region J is monitor wells, and specific to Kerr County or 13 our area. We have supplied Headwaters with monitor 14 equipment for two wells. They're very much involved, and so 15 that cost will be borne by the State, as opposed to being 16 done by the local taxpayers directly. And there's one more 17 monitor well in Bandera County that's also -- these are 18 pretty sophisticated instruments that really do a great job. 19 And part of that -- one of the monitor wells was the one 20 that was just drilled jointly with Headwaters and Region J 21 out at fish -- the fishery, Parks and Wildlife fishery out 22 in Mountain Home. And the interesting thing on that well is 23 they -- they found a much larger section of the Trinity than 24 had been mapped there previously, and they also found a huge 25 section of the Lower Trinity that was not even expected to 6-28-04 69 1 be there. So, it really -- it is the deepest well drilled 2 in western Kerr County, in that part of Kerr County. Mo 3 Ranch has some other deep wells. 4 But it was real interesting. It just shows 5 how little we know and how every little bit of -- really, of 6 science going in -- and some of these deeper well tests that 7 are being funded through Headwaters, Region J, and others, 8 so they were getting a lot more information, and we're 9 learning a whole lot more about the Trinity. I think the 10 overall reserves and where we are in the Trinity, we still 11 know we don't know much, but we know a whole lot more than 12 we did five years ago. And the reservoir studies and the 13 pumping ability of the -- I guess the long-term ability of 14 the Trinity to provide water, we're learning there's a lot 15 of recharge. So, I think that we're gaining a lot of 16 information, and I think we will be having a workshop -- I 17 believe it's July 22nd in Kerrville, and that'll be going 18 over -- trying to figure out a new way to recalculate the 19 reserve and the sustainability of the Middle and Lower 20 Trinity in Kerr County. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, if somebody came 22 along and said -- and we've heard this a lot -- that we're 23 going to be out of water by 2050 or something like that, 24 that may not be -- that may not be a fact. We -- we really 25 don't know how much water is down there yet, do we? 6-28-04 70 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We really do not know. 2 We do know that there is more -- the first plan was done 3 five years ago, four years ago, whatever it was. We do know 4 that the extent of the Lower Trinity is substantially larger 5 now than we did under that first plan. There's a deep well 6 in eastern Kerr County that showed a lot more Lower Trinity 7 than was expected, and there's a deep well now in western 8 Kerr County that shows a lot more. So -- but the -- you 9 know, one thing that is going to be a big difference, we had 10 some very large reserve estimates in the Lower Trinity in 11 the Region J plan. There were billions of gallons. We're 12 going to refine that a lot more as to more -- as to what is 13 usable water, or try to. That's going to be part of the 14 meeting on the 22nd. And, at the Region J workshop, John 15 Ashworth will be at it. It will be primarily for the people 16 of Bandera and Kerr County, because our water issues are 17 very similar -- water needs. So, anyway, we're making 18 progress in Region J, and I bring it up to the Court because 19 it's -- the Court does help fund the administrative costs of 20 that, you know, project. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Nothing else. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Do we have any elected 23 officials here that have any reports for the Court? Any 24 other reports to be received in accordance with the 25 information agenda portion? We'll then go back to the 6-28-04 71 1 executive session portion. In order that we might conduct 2 that business, we would ask that, except for members of the 3 Court, the reporter, and the County Attorney, that all 4 others please vacate. 5 (Discussion off the record.) 6 (The open session was closed at 10:37 a.m., and an Executive Session was held, the 7 transcript of which is contained in a separate document.) 8 - - - - - - - - - - 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We are -- we will come 10 back into open session at 10:56 -- excuse me, 10:54, and let 11 me recall the fifth item on our agenda, that being to set a 12 public hearing for revision of a plat for Lots 7 and 8 in 13 Block 9 of Saddlewood Estates, Section 3. We had previously 14 taken action on that to set that public hearing for August 15 the 8th, 2004, at 10 a.m. I've been advised that that date 16 is actually a Sunday, so we maybe need to -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: August 9. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: -- amend that. We want to 19 amend that order, then, to be August the 9th, 2004, at 20 10 a.m.? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Correct. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: And do you so move, 23 Commissioner Baldwin? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, I do. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 6-28-04 72 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to 2 amend that previous court order to provide that the public 3 hearing for revision of plat for Lots 7 and 8, Block 9, 4 Saddlewood Estates, Section 3, be held on August the 9th, 5 2004, at 10 a.m. Any further question or discussion? All 6 in favor of that motion, signify by raising your right hand. 7 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 9 Anything further, gentlemen? Hearing nothing further, I 10 will declare us adjourned. 11 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 10:57 a.m.) 12 - - - - - - - - - - 13 14 STATE OF TEXAS | 15 COUNTY OF KERR | 16 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 17 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 18 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 19 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 20 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 30th day of June, 2004. 21 22 23 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 24 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 25 Certified Shorthand Reporter 6-28-04