1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Budget Workshop 10 Monday, August 16, 2004 11 8:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 DAVE NICHOLSON, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 On Monday, August 16, 2004, at 8:00 a.m., a budget 2 workshop meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was 3 held in the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let me call to order 8 the workshop of the Kerr County Commissioners Court 9 scheduled for this date and time, Monday, August 16, 2004, 10 at 8 a.m. The item on the agenda this morning is review and 11 discuss the Fiscal Year 2004-2005 budget. I've provided the 12 members of the Court some amount of materials. I apologize 13 for the Court not having all of the draft information it 14 needs, but at this point we don't have the personnel costs. 15 Far as I know, the Auditor -- have you received those, 16 Mr. Tomlinson? 17 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: The personnel costs from 19 the -- from the personnel schedule that I requested has not 20 yet come into play, so we need the balance of that 21 information to add to what I furnished to the Auditor before 22 he can put out the initial draft of -- of the beginning 23 cost. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, where does that 25 information come from? The Treasurer's office? 8-16-04wk 3 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Treasurer's office. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why do we not have it? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I -- I suspect you'll 4 need to ask the Treasurer. I requested several weeks ago 5 that she begin working on that, 'cause we were going to need 6 the position schedule that incorporates the -- the personnel 7 costs as mandated by the policy that the Court passed, as 8 I'm sure you recall, dealing with longevity increases and 9 increases because of education. In doing my budget 10 discussions with the various elected officials and 11 department heads, I have indicated that -- to those persons 12 that -- that the draft which I will submit to the Court will 13 not include anything other than those personnel costs, 14 because if there are extraordinary matters, such as merit 15 raises, additional employees, reworking job descriptions to 16 increase salary costs, COLA's, all of those major personnel 17 decisions, that -- that those will be a matter for the 18 entire Court to make the decision on, as -- as will it be 19 for the capital outlay items. It's basically the same 20 admonishment that I gave them in -- in the past year; that 21 those items, I think, are a matter that the Court needs to 22 make the decision on. Now, I have furnished you a schedule 23 of the various capital outlay items that have been requested 24 by the various departments and elected officials so that 25 you've got those before you of what they are, the costs 8-16-04wk 4 1 involved, so that we can begin to be looking at those. But 2 insofar as having an actual bottom-line number, without the 3 position schedule and the costs that are related to that, 4 you don't have that before you. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We do not, Judge, and 6 I really wish we did. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: As do I. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think that -- I 9 think that we should notify the Treasurer's office and -- 10 and tell them we want those numbers this week, and give them 11 a date, a target for them to get that out. I would say 12 tomorrow, but y'all are much nicer than I am. But I think 13 at least this week. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not nice at all 15 today. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're not, are you? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm in a quite irritable 18 mood this morning, and I really don't see any point to 19 meeting today. Without those numbers, and without the 20 entire budget to look at, this is pointless. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How can we make a 23 decision on any department if we don't have the full 24 picture? I'm not yelling at the Judge. You know, he's -- 25 I'll yell at him, and he can yell down there if he wants. 8-16-04wk 5 1 But, I mean, I need everything -- as late as we are, I don't 2 want to go through these -- I'm not going to go through Road 3 and Bridge twice. You know, as late as we are in the budget 4 process, we need these numbers, and I'd just as soon recess 5 till tomorrow. I really don't see any point in going 6 through any of this stuff today. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I fully understand what you're 8 saying, Commissioner. I -- I had hoped to have those. Of 9 course, they need to go to the Auditor so that he can plug 10 them in with the draft numbers which I gave him week before 11 last, I guess it was. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, they're -- I put those 13 in the system. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, you've got my numbers 15 plugged in, but until you get the position schedule numbers, 16 you can't run it out. 17 MR. TOMLINSON: Right. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: So, that's where we are. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Before we jump off 20 the deep end, can we have our administrative assistant 21 contact the Treasurer's office to see if those are available 22 and can be brought up? 23 (Ms. Mitchell left the courtroom.) 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Do we know what the 25 inflation factor is that we're going to use, or COLA, in 8-16-04wk 6 1 determining -- 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I know what I read 3 yesterday in one of the metropolitan dailies. It's running 4 about 2.8 nationwide, fueled by fuel costs, essentially. 5 About 2.4 to 2.8. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm also 7 disappointed that we don't have some good numbers to work 8 with. I wish -- I hope there's something productive we can 9 do. I'm getting -- as I was last year, I'm getting a little 10 nervous about the deadline looming, and lots of unanswered 11 questions. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree. But, at the 13 same time, until we get a full budget, how can we start 14 cutting or making a decision on what we can and can't do, 15 when we don't know the final numbers? I mean, we just can't 16 do it. I mean, how can I make a decision on a lot of this 17 stuff? 18 (Ms. Mitchell returned to the courtroom.) 19 MS. MITCHELL: Cindy or Barbara, neither one 20 are here. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: County Treasurer 22 moved to a different county 300 miles away. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not Atascosa. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They were reduced in 25 salary, I believe. 8-16-04wk 7 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, you guys want to watch a 2 little movie? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not particularly. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: You're just grumpy all the way 5 around this morning, huh? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No popcorn? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just don't -- I mean -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You cannot make a 9 decision without the information. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I need -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We can sit here and 12 visit if y'all want to. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- need time to go 14 through it. I mean, you can't just receive it and expect to 15 go over, you know, 100 pages of documents and make an 16 intelligent decision on it. So, you know -- 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Are there budget 18 features that are not -- that don't have payroll-related 19 numbers in them that we can work on? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, there are a number of 21 them. But those are going to be, I would think, very 22 dependent upon total budgetary impact, such as 23 County-sponsored, joint City/County projects, things of that 24 nature, and I think those probably, to as much a degree, and 25 maybe a larger degree, are more dependent upon the overall 8-16-04wk 8 1 budget impact. That's my sense of it. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's a good point. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Have we received the 5 City's requests? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I've not received any formal 7 request from the City, no. I have -- I have plugged in some 8 numbers based upon some input that you gentlemen have given 9 me, and some other input that I have put in there based upon 10 the gleaning of some information relative, for example, to 11 the airport, the operational costs out there. The -- I did 12 some research in some of the documentation provided to me 13 over the past couple of months on the operations out there, 14 so I was able to do that. But insofar as receiving specific 15 requests from the City on those items, we haven't. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Have we requested them to 17 give us anything? I mean, last -- last thing I heard from 18 the City was that they canceled our joint meeting. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: I had written a letter to them 20 at about the same time -- I think our letters probably 21 crossed -- asking about their position on some of those 22 matters, and asked that they provide us with the information 23 as soon as possible in advance, so that we might be able to 24 consider those. That's the general tenor of my letter. I 25 don't know; it's been a while since I sent it, but I believe 8-16-04wk 9 1 that's -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I -- on that topic, 3 I'd recommend that another letter go to the City today, and 4 probably hand-delivered to them, requesting all of it 5 immediately. I mean, just -- you know, again, how can -- I 6 mean, that impacts, you know, the total -- three, four, 7 $500,000 in our budget? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Close to half a 9 million. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Over half a million 11 dollars, and -- 12 JUDGE TINLEY: More than that. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, probably $700,000. 14 I think that we need to get those numbers as well. And I 15 think we should also -- one thing that -- well, hard for us 16 to do it without the whole picture, but animal -- Animal 17 Control? Animal Control, we need to get those numbers to 18 the City as well. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Far as I know, those numbers 20 have been furnished to the City. Mr. Allen, the manager out 21 there, worked up some numbers a pretty good while back. And 22 I think you saw them, didn't you, Commissioner Nicholson? 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think he provided 24 the City -- his counterpart in the City. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Need to check on that to make 8-16-04wk 10 1 sure that he has. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How about the jail 3 numbers? Per-diem rates, are they going to change? 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm not anticipating any 5 change, no, sir. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I guess I'm back to my earlier 7 question. Since we've got the theater set up, do you want 8 to watch the movie? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll watch a movie. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure. Who's it star? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's purpose of the 12 movie? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: The Sheriff said he had a 14 little presentation for us, and I thought as long as we were 15 here and as long as he was set up, we can go ahead and put 16 that behind us. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Goes along more the 18 lines of personnel matters, Jonathan, what we do out there. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sure. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The one request that I 21 would like to make, if I may, of the Court, is the Judge and 22 I did sit down and go over the figures I had submitted as 23 far as budgetary stuff. Personnel and that can't be 24 answered, but some of the other issues and other budget line 25 items, especially since I do -- did do four budgets this 8-16-04wk 11 1 year, three budgets on those different line items, I haven't 2 seen any kind of numbers yet on what's going to be 3 recommended to the Court, to where we know if we're going to 4 have, you know, to try and adjust some things or where I 5 have to come from with the Court. And I'd like to see some 6 of those numbers that were worked up prior to -- you 7 understand? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Not sure that I do, but are 9 you talking about just the -- the non-personnel and capital 10 outlay items that are in your budget? 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, the capital outlay 12 I understand, you know, has to be a last-minute deal too, 13 but when you get into things such as, you know, 14 investigation expense, postage, office supplies, all those 15 different types of line items that don't deal with personnel 16 so much, I know I had my lines filled out on what I felt the 17 department needed this coming year, and I know you and I 18 went back over them and looked at them, but I don't know 19 where your figures are going to be on that. I gave you 20 mine, but I didn't get any of yours, to where, when we come 21 to court over a lot of those issues, that may be a moot 22 point; that we don't have to prepare and go through a lot of 23 this other stuff. It may be agreed upon by the whole Court. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: You -- I suspect a lot of them 25 are, Sheriff. I don't think there was a lot of 8-16-04wk 12 1 modifications. I'm just thinking off the top of my head, 2 but that, of course, is the whole purpose of my meeting 3 one-on-one with the elected officials and department heads, 4 to try and figure out if there are -- if there are any major 5 variances from what the historical uses and expenditures 6 have been, try and find out what justifications there are. 7 If some of them are down, where they're down, and if that 8 was an anomaly or whether they're going to remain down. So, 9 that's the whole purpose of my meeting. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And I agree, and we had 11 a very good meeting. The problem is, coming out of that 12 meeting, I have no idea where you stood. Okay? And that -- 13 that was -- you knew exactly where I stood -- 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- as a department head, 16 but I had no idea, you know, where you were going to be. 17 And I know last year I felt the same way when it came to 18 court. I think there was about a $200,000 difference, which 19 caused me some serious problems on things that we couldn't 20 go to, and I was just hoping this year maybe we could kind 21 of come to an agreement out of our meeting where we both 22 knew where we stood on those. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: I mean, the numbers I've 24 submitted to the Auditor that are non-personnel, non-capital 25 outlay-related, of course, those numbers are available, and 8-16-04wk 13 1 I've got them here. I furnished them to the other members 2 of the Court. Be happy to furnish them to you. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: Sheriff, I have them in the 4 system. I mean, if you want a copy of your budget, I'll 5 print you one. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Of the proposed next 7 year's? 8 MR. TOMLINSON: The reason I didn't print 9 them was because -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, the draft numbers that I 11 turned in to him. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's what I would love 13 to have. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: Reason I didn't print them 16 was just because, what the Judge said, I don't have any 17 salary numbers, so I didn't print them for this meeting. 18 But if you want one for your -- for your department, I can 19 do that. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes, thank you. That 21 would help me to know -- 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- when we come to 24 hearings, what I need to prepare for. I guess we'll pull 25 this out a little bit. This is about a 10-minute video. I 8-16-04wk 14 1 know Buster and I had talked some in the past about what 2 does our department do exactly. I know some people look at 3 the U.C.R. reports for Texas or something, see that in the 4 U.C.R. crime reporting, it shows us with a total of 438 5 crimes. Well, what this is, is seven offenses that the 6 State of Texas picks on U.C.R. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are you getting into 8 my stuff now? Stay out of that. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I got your stuff right 10 here, Buster. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll get to mine. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. But what that is, 13 is -- and, actually, there's more than that. We'll get to 14 that later. But, in Buster's asking, you know, what exactly 15 do we do, I wanted to show some of the things that we do. 16 Couple of y'all have seen one thing that's going on now that 17 I'm not at liberty to talk about during open meeting. But 18 some of the other things that we do do, I felt you ought to 19 see and at least hear what these officers go through, 20 whether they be jail staff members, and the number of people 21 it takes to actually operate that and handle these type of 22 situations, or whether it be a patrol deputy on the street 23 making a traffic stop. So, the videotape is about 10 24 minutes. Just shows two different instances we've dealt 25 with in the jail. And the audio tape is one minute and 11 8-16-04wk 15 1 seconds, and it just shows how bad things can go for just a 2 patrol officer assisting another agency on a traffic stop. 3 Just thought you ought to see these. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rusty, before I forget, 5 several times we've discussed in court -- I know you've been 6 here about the communications system. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How we have holes, I 9 guess we hear about, in west Kerr county. Are you happy -- 10 I mean, is the system performing the way it was sold to us? 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes, it is. We have 12 excellent coverage. We have little things going wrong, but 13 it's a computerized system, but there is a maintenance 14 contract. They respond to it immediately and get any of the 15 little problems that we have fixed. It's a four tower 16 repeater-type system, simulcast, which is very detailed, but 17 our coverage for law enforcement throughout the county is 18 better than it's ever been, okay? We do get pretty well 19 what they said, about 95 percent coverage with hand-held 20 radios and about 98 percent coverage with the car radios. 21 Now, you can get out west and get into low areas where 22 you're not going to get reception no matter what you do. I 23 think a lot of the question is, the fire departments and -- 24 and places like that, they operate off a different system. 25 What we have offered them is -- we have two 8-16-04wk 16 1 channels, is the easiest way to -- to say it; two 2 frequencies. One we use for our primary radio frequency, 3 which is our Channel 1, which is all our day-to-day stuff. 4 Everything goes across. The second one that, if the Court 5 will remember, we had set up back when we did that system, 6 is an emergency channel. And what that is designed for is, 7 say there is a major fire somewhere or major incident going 8 on, and we have given the other agencies permission to go 9 over to that channel to operate in that instance. We don't 10 want all their just day-to-day talk on there, 'cause it 11 comes across and it would interfere with stuff. But even if 12 we have a pursuit going or something like that, we change 13 over to that channel, so you get a good, clear channel, and 14 it gives you the same reception. So, that's what we've 15 offered to the fire departments and -- and all the different 16 agencies to be able to use in emergency situations where 17 they need better coverage. But the Sheriff's Office radio 18 system now is better than it's ever been in 25 years that 19 I've seen. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Rusty, you and I 21 talked about this Friday, I think it was -- Thursday or 22 Friday, and last night the KARFA president called me and I 23 related our conversation to him, saying that this Channel 2 24 would solve their concerns. And his response is that their 25 concerns are where the holes are in your system. I don't 8-16-04wk 17 1 know where it is in the eastern part of the county, but in 2 the western part of the county it's the North Fork and the 3 South Fork. Their using Channel 2 won't -- won't get them 4 the ability to communicate that they need. What they need 5 is another tower in the western part of the county and the 6 eastern part. And repeaters on those new towers that put 7 the repeater -- another repeater -- another channel on 8 current towers won't -- won't fill in the gaps for them. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, one thing that I 10 would suggest they do is come out and look at our coverage 11 maps and actually see. Because I think -- 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We need a meeting 13 between your office and KARFA. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: When we did that -- and 15 that study was done. There's areas out there on those 16 things that can't -- you're never going to get coverage 17 unless you got a repeater sitting on top of them, which does 18 make it very difficult. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'll get with you in 20 the next day or -- today or tomorrow, and we'll try to set 21 up a meeting with -- with those who are making the request. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Good. I have no problem 23 with that. 24 (Deputy began the videotape.) 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, while he's 8-16-04wk 18 1 doing that, I am -- with all my diplomacy, I went and called 2 the Treasurer's office and requested that we get things up 3 here, and she appeared empty-handed and kind of walked out. 4 So, I'm -- I can't -- I don't know what to tell you. 5 (Videotape playing.) 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There is some language 7 in this video that you -- I ask your forgiveness for, but 8 it's real -- well, you can see, this is a riot that was 9 going on in an 18-man cellblock where they totally covered 10 all the windows with paper, tied the door shut, and we had 11 to go in and remove 18 inmates out of a cellblock. They 12 flooded part of the cell at one time and were making all 13 kinds of different demands. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You don't mistake 15 those guys for a boy scout troop, do you? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't think so. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: This is just one 18 cellblock. We had about 10 different ones. You can see 19 where they tied that electric gate to -- with a sheet to 20 where you couldn't open it. 21 (Videotape continues.) 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: All this was over -- 23 they wouldn't clean their cell, so we took their TV away for 24 24 hours. That's what started this. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Who's that? 8-16-04wk 19 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's Kerrville, Kerr 2 County, and Fredericksburg S.O.U. Unit. This is about 3 11 o'clock at night. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Was this filmed on 5 one of your surveillance cameras? 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: This was filmed on a 7 hand-held video camera. We film any of our instances. We 8 have to document them. They're supposed to have had some 9 homemade weapons in there and anything else that, if 10 somebody went in, they were going to try and use. 11 (Videotape continues.) 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Some of these are Aryan 13 Brotherhood members; some of them are Mexican Mafia members. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Who's -- 15 (Videotape continues.) 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that you, Rusty? 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't like getting 18 woke up. 19 (Discussion off the record.) 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Eighteen very dangerous 21 inmates, we're not going to put up with anything out of 22 them. You can't; you'd get somebody hurt. We had everybody 23 working that night except for one officer in there helping 24 with that. We had one patrolman on duty for the whole 25 1,100 square miles. Everybody else was having to deal with 8-16-04wk 20 1 these guys. 2 (Videotape continues.) 3 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Rosa said you have to 5 take Dramamine to watch this. Uh-oh. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mean dude. Is that 7 Seard? 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Four-inch steel depth on 9 the wall, and he's chopping through the cell wall. 10 (Videotape continues.) 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Had to back away half 12 the jail and move it to another area before we could go in 13 and deal with him. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He's in a cell by 15 himself, huh? 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You can see he cut 17 himself; that's blood on the glass that you're looking 18 through there where he's cut himself with the steel. 19 (Videotape continues.) 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We probably need to 21 shoot him with the Taser, 50,000 watts. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Huh? 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's 50,000 watts, 24 tasing him. 25 (Videotape continues.) 8-16-04wk 21 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's a .37-millimeter 2 round of those pellets -- gas; it actually comes out and 3 hits you. Next one's a .37-millimeter round of C.S. gas. 4 (Videotape continues.) 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's off the fire 6 alarm. Okay, turn that off. 7 (Videotape stopped.) 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that still him? 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's him after we got 10 him out. What I'm showing you on that is, that took -- each 11 time you could see the other officers there. It took the 12 patrolmen, took all the jail staff, took S.O.U. units, 13 anybody we can get ahold of to come in and help take care of 14 those situations when you're dealing with that number of 15 inmates. Even if it's one like this event, we had to 16 evacuate half that jail, move them all around to other 17 areas, have guards on those people, because at that time 18 you're losing your classification; you're putting gang 19 members of one kind together with gang members of another 20 kind that probably shouldn't be, so you've got people 21 actually having to guard all those people. Okay, that was 22 that one. 23 You want to play this one? This is the -- 24 this is a one-minute patrolman situation where he's just 25 assisting K.P.D. with a traffic stop. Now, you have to 8-16-04wk 22 1 listen close, because he does get excited. 2 (Audio tape started.) 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Listen how calm the 4 dispatcher stays. These are professional people. 5 (Audio tape continues.) 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What that is, is -- as 7 you can tell, is our officer's just in the area. Kerrville 8 P.D.'s going to make a traffic stop. He's there close; he's 9 going to assist Kerrville P.D. with the traffic stop. As 10 soon as he got on the radio to tell the dispatcher he's 11 going to be out with P.D. at the traffic stop, you get shots 12 fired, and at the end of that, as you well know, one man 13 died; two police cars shot up pretty bad. The shots that 14 were fired at our officer went over the top of him and hit a 15 bystander's car driving down the road. These are the type 16 of situations that your law enforcement people handle, 17 whether they're jail or whether it's Kerrville P.D. or us. 18 But I think we have -- as you can tell, the dispatcher on 19 duty there stayed very calm, getting the help out there 20 that's needed. And the reason I show this is rumors during 21 this budget process -- and not from the Judge, not from 22 anybody in particular -- is that manpower may be a big 23 issue; that they think some departments are overloaded with 24 manpower and have too many and things like that. And what 25 I'm trying to show is, if anything, in law enforcement, we 8-16-04wk 23 1 need more manpower and we need better wages for these 2 officers. 3 That officer -- I know we choose our jobs; we 4 choose our professions. Court chooses our salaries. That 5 officer is literally getting shot at, and officers die all 6 the time across here, and he's doing that for about $30,000 7 a year. And he's not backing down; he's screaming for help. 8 He's going to stand there till the fight's over. The 9 jailers have their duties, as you saw with that. I would 10 ask that, during the budget process, you look at law 11 enforcement closely. Look at our manpower and look at what 12 we have to deal with, and our gateway to San Antonio, the 13 interstate and everything else that our officers have to 14 deal with be taken into consideration. Especially when you 15 figure that the most I have on duty on patrol at a time 16 right now is four to five. And I have a rule they can't go 17 below four; we call people in if it goes below four. To 18 keep that four people on patrol for 1,100 square miles, and 19 they can be 50 miles apart from each other, is already too 20 few. That's the show. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Any questions for the Sheriff 22 in connection with his presentation? Thank you, Sheriff. 23 We appreciate that. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Thank you. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I have just been handed, 8-16-04wk 24 1 moments ago, a 2004-2005 position schedule. This obviously 2 will need to be plugged into the budget draft by the 3 Auditor. What I'm going to do at this point is ask that our 4 Administrative Assistant make several copies of this, one 5 for each member of the Court, one for herself, for myself, 6 and we'll get this to the Auditor so that he can get it 7 plugged in. And what's the -- what's the turn-around time 8 on having these numbers plugged in? Best estimate, 9 Mr. Tomlinson? 10 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, we can do it today for 11 sure. Depending on how many fires there are. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Pardon? 13 MR. TOMLINSON: Depending on how many fires 14 there are during the day. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I see. Brush fires. Brush 16 fires. 17 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. 18 MS. NEMEC: Which, by the way, I did have 19 this morning. Why that is late, I had to go to Office -- to 20 Walmart and get more ribbon, printer ribbon; I ran out. And 21 my employee did not deserve to be hung up on this morning by 22 a commissioner that called her, and I don't appreciate that 23 at all. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I didn't hang up on 25 her. 8-16-04wk 25 1 MS. NEMEC: Yes, you did, Buster. She told 2 me. I don't think she would lie. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't give a damn 4 what she told you; I didn't hang up. 5 MS. NEMEC: Well, she deserves an apology. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, go apologize to 7 her. I didn't hang up on her. 8 MS. NEMEC: I knew you wouldn't. You're not 9 man enough to do it. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I got to go. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there anything else that we 12 can -- that we can do prior to having this information put 13 together that we're going to need in order to be able to 14 give consideration? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I really don't think so. 16 'Cause to me, we, you know, need to get the full budget, 17 have time to go through it, digest it, and then go over it. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: We've got a workshop set for 19 Friday, but time's wasting, is all I can tell you. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If Tommy can get this 21 run -- get the numbers run today, why can't we come back in 22 in the morning? Tell me why. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mainly 'cause I don't 24 think I'll probably have time to get back up here, 25 necessarily, to -- well, I will be up here this evening. 8-16-04wk 26 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Y'all let me know. 2 (Commissioner Baldwin left the courtroom.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: I've got mental health docket 4 in the morning, but hopefully that won't last all that -- 5 won't last all morning. Kathy's not here, so I'm not sure 6 what my calendar is for tomorrow afternoon. You -- are you 7 pretty well committed for tomorrow, Commissioner Letz? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. I mean, I can be 9 here. Only day I cannot be here is Thursday; I have a 10 Region J meeting all day. But it's just a matter of -- I 11 really would like a little bit of time to go through the 12 whole book, and it takes a little bit of time. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure, to digest. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Kind of see where it is. 15 So I think, you know, if Tommy has them ready today, you 16 know, I can pick it up late today. We can meet, I guess, 17 tomorrow morning or afternoon. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let's get started. 19 We could at least get started. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Will they be ready this 21 afternoon, you think, Tommy? Or are we talking about 22 tomorrow, have it ready? 23 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, I can't absolutely say 24 it will be ready this afternoon, but we'll -- we'll see. 25 I'll let you know. I'll give you -- leave you a message or 8-16-04wk 27 1 something. I'd rather -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: We can recess for a day, but 3 we can't recess for beyond that, I don't think. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why don't we -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Recess till 8:00 in the 6 morning, and then we can, if need be, recess again. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 8:30 would be my 8 preference for tomorrow. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Recess till 8:30. If 10 it's not ready this evening, roll it from that point. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Go from there to tomorrow 12 afternoon. 13 MR. TOMLINSON: What about tomorrow 14 afternoon? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, if we're -- 16 JUDGE TINLEY: The problem is, we need to -- 17 we need to reconvene before 9:00 in the morning. 18 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: And then, at that time, if -- 20 if we see the need to recess till later on in the day, we 21 can do so. So, it appears that the best course of action 22 right now is to recess until 8:30 in the morning and see 23 where we are at that point, and then we go forward from 24 there. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How about posting an 8-16-04wk 28 1 emergency meeting for Wednesday? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm in San Antonio. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're in San Antonio all 4 day? Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: San Antonio and 6 Austin both. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. We'll -- tomorrow 8 morning. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: So, we'll stand in recess 10 until 8:30 tomorrow morning, Tuesday, August the 17th, 2004. 11 Thank you. 12 (Budget workshop recessed at 8:48 a.m.) 13 - - - - - - - - - - 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 8-16-04wk 29 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 5 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 6 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 7 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 16th day of August, 8 2004. 9 10 11 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 12 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 13 Certified Shorthand Reporter 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 8-16-04wk