1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Budget Workshop 10 Tuesday, August 24, 2004 11 1:30 p.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 DAVE NICHOLSON, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X August 24, 2004 2 PAGE 3 Budget Workshop 4 County Holidays 3 5 District Clerk 9 6 Maintenance 26 7 Courthouse & Related Buildings 27 Jail 37 8 Parks 37 Youth Exhibit Center 38 9 Juvenile Probation 51 10 Adult Probation 59 11 Health & Emergency Services 62 12 Collections 68 13 Environmental Health 76 14 Animal Control 101 15 Agricultural Extension Service 112 16 County Court at Law 124 17 County-sponsored 126 18 City/County operations 133 19 Commissioners Court 145 20 County Judge 155 21 Elected Officials' compensation 157 22 Adjourned 220 23 24 25 8-24-04 wk 3 1 On Tuesday, August 24, 2004, at 1:30 p.m., a budget 2 workshop of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me call to order the 8 Commissioners Court workshop scheduled for this date and 9 time, Tuesday, August the 24th, at 1:30 p.m. The agenda 10 calls for the workshop to be in connection with the Fiscal 11 Year '04-'05 budget. The first individual up on the 12 schedule is the District Clerk. I don't see Ms. Uecker 13 here. We just saved ourselves 20 minutes, it looks like. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I know she's 15 coming, 'cause she said, "I'll see you in a minute" about 16 two minutes ago. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, while we're 18 waiting, can we talk about holidays? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We'll talk about 20 holidays. The ones we got or the ones we didn't get? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, just look at these 22 dates. My question I had was, are the -- the date -- like, 23 are we just lucky that all the holidays fall on Monday this 24 year coming up? Like, July 4th, it says, is a Monday after 25 -- for instance, is July 4th a Monday? 8-24-04 wk 4 1 MS. NEMEC: Yes. I prepared that, yes, and I 2 went by the federal holidays. Those are -- federal holidays 3 is when the banks are closed, and I know this past year, we 4 were working when the banks were closed, and it wasn't very 5 convenient for us. And then one time the banks were open, 6 and we weren't working or whatever. But, anyway, I followed 7 the -- last year I kind of did a Tivy -- or a K.I.S.D. 8 holiday, compared that with the federal holidays, and that's 9 how we came up with our holidays. This year, I just 10 strictly did federal holidays. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, I mean, by looking 12 at this, we don't have any problems this year. I mean, it 13 works out that almost all the holidays are on -- I mean -- 14 MS. NEMEC: Yes. I went strictly by their -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Federal holidays are both 16 December 24th and 27th? 17 MS. NEMEC: Okay, no. Federal holidays, for 18 Christmas -- see, the way I understand it, they can't have 19 four consecutive holidays, and that includes weekends. So, 20 for their -- for their Christmas holiday, their holiday is 21 Monday, December the 26th. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: 26th? 23 MS. NEMEC: I mean the 27th, I'm sorry. They 24 have the 26th, but theirs is wrong. I changed it to the 25 27th. 8-24-04 wk 5 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 2 MS. NEMEC: And what I did was I checked how 3 many holidays we had last year, and that is the same number 4 of holidays. I think there may be one more that was 5 recommended this year. So, that's why I included the 24th. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One more recommended this 7 year being the controversial New Year's holiday? 8 MS. NEMEC: No, being -- well, no, New Year's 9 Eve holiday is also a federal holiday. They are celebrating 10 that holiday on New Year's Eve. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 12 MS. NEMEC: The -- the one that I included 13 this year that we haven't had in several years was Martin 14 Luther King Day. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 16 MS. NEMEC: For years, I get calls on why 17 this holiday is not a holiday. My explanation to them is, 18 some years ago, the Court took that holiday away. Not this 19 Court; several courts back. So, I am proposing that we put 20 that holiday back into our holiday schedule. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Is that one more 22 holiday than we've had in the past? 23 MS. NEMEC: Actually, what I think it amounts 24 to be is half a day more, because last -- this past year, we 25 did two and a half days for Christmas. And so this year 8-24-04 wk 6 1 we're only doing two days, so actually, with that Martin 2 Luther King Day, it's half of a holiday, half a day more. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But isn't that really -- 4 isn't this going to yield two and a half days for Christmas 5 too? Because you're going to have -- the 24th is a holiday. 6 We'll do our annual Christmas luncheon on the 23rd, so the 7 holiday begins, basically, noon the 23rd, in reality. 8 MS. NEMEC: That's probably what will happen, 9 but that's not what I'm proposing. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's the rationale 11 for the 27th? 12 MS. NEMEC: It's a federal holiday. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It is a federal? 14 MS. NEMEC: Yes, sir. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we're -- the 16 reality is, whatever we put down at Christmas, we're going 17 to end up with half a day more. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, yeah. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Which is fine. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Would that also be the same 21 for New Year's? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not this year. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: New Year's is 8-24-04 wk 7 1 December 31st -- that would be giving them New Year's Day, 2 which is a Friday. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the calendar -- this 4 year lends itself -- it's a lot easier to work with, it 5 appears, based on the dates. The 31st is a Friday. 6 MS. NEMEC: Right. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It works out. The 8 problem comes when the 31st is a Thursday. 9 MS. NEMEC: Right. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: One complaint we got 11 last year with -- as I recall, was that the K.I.S.D. 12 schedule's a little different than ours, so sometimes our 13 people were working when their children were out of school, 14 or vice-versa. Is this different than K.I.S.D.? Or -- 15 MS. NEMEC: It's different, because K.I.S.D. 16 does not observe some of these holidays. I don't believe 17 that -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They don't observe 19 Veterans Day, I don't believe. 20 MS. NEMEC: Veterans Day or Columbus Day. So 21 I think we probably have, actually, more holidays than they 22 do. And then the thing about it is, too, that K.I.S.D., 23 while they're called holidays -- or no-school days, some of 24 those aren't actually holidays. They're teacher in-service 25 days or for whatever reason, and there's no reason for us to 8-24-04 wk 8 1 have those holidays. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 3 MS. UECKER: Plus they hold some of those 4 back for bad weather days. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Did you count the total 6 days on the schedule versus the total days on last year? 7 MS. NEMEC: Yes, I -- this is 12 here. Last 8 year was 11 and a half. So if we do the 23rd as a half a 9 day, then you're talking a whole -- full day. This would be 10 12 and a half versus, last year, 11 and a half. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, this is -- 12 MS. NEMEC: It's the same, and then we're 13 adding that -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're adding one full day 15 this year? 16 MS. NEMEC: Right. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On the schedule. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Is that it for the 19 holidays? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Have we ever talked 21 about, instead of -- for example, I don't know who -- no, 22 it's not quite, Judge. I'm sorry. You added back in M.L.K. 23 Day, right? 24 MS. NEMEC: Right. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Have we ever talked 8-24-04 wk 9 1 about a floating holiday instead of something like that; 2 i.e., employee's birthday? Let them take that as a floating 3 holiday, and not a rigid holiday? Have we ever discussed 4 that? 5 MS. NEMEC: I don't -- 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The merits of that? 7 MS. NEMEC: I think, away from the court, I 8 might have had a discussion with some officials, but no, not 9 officially here in court. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm not hearing 11 anybody ante up, so it's not resonating, apparently. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It didn't give me 14 goosebumps when you said that. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That right. That's 16 'cause you've got a long-sleeved shirt on. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't want to delay 19 the proceedings. It was just a thought that crossed my 20 mind. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Uecker is rapidly running 22 out of time; she's only got about 11 minutes left. Why 23 don't we get on to hers? 24 MS. UECKER: Where do you want me to start? 25 Or do you want to start? I don't know how you're doing 8-24-04 wk 10 1 this. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I brought Subdivision 3 Rules, not the budget. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Page 23 is where I see us, 5 where we are, gentlemen. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Page 23. Right to 7 it, just like a homing pigeon. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So far, Ms. Uecker, 9 everybody that's come in here has had good ideas for cutting 10 costs and increasing revenues, so we're ready to hear yours. 11 MS. UECKER: I've been doing that for 37 12 years. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's why I was -- 14 that's why I couldn't wait to hear from you. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm just looking at 16 the bottom line. You went up $2,000 over last year, so I -- 17 I don't understand how you can be so extravagant. 18 MS. UECKER: I know. Isn't it something? I 19 really don't have anything that dramatic to talk about in my 20 budget this year. Because of our limited funding, I'm 21 trying to -- excuse me, frog in my throat -- trying to hold 22 it down where I can. I did have some comments about -- or 23 some questions about some changes that the Judge made, or 24 somebody made on the last printout. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I did. 8-24-04 wk 11 1 MS. UECKER: Is that you? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 3 MS. UECKER: Okay. On 310, Office Supplies. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 5 MS. UECKER: You put -- changed that to 6 8,000. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 8 MS. UECKER: Right now, there's somewhere 9 between $1,500 and $2,000 left, which I think we'll be okay 10 with that. Let's see. Machine Repair, that I had increased 11 -- asked for an increase, because what you had added to, 12 because we have reduced some of the contracts, and the 13 repair on the machines is costing more. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I think I gave it to you, too, 15 didn't I? 16 MS. UECKER: Yeah, you've got it in there. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 18 MS. UECKER: I just didn't know if you wanted 19 me to explain all those, although they were pretty 20 explanatory in my handout. WordMerge, you've probably heard 21 from the other elected officials on that one. The Software 22 Group, that was to be divided between myself -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: That's 562, Computer Software? 24 MS. UECKER: Yeah. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: 3,700? 8-24-04 wk 12 1 MS. UECKER: Right. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, that's one program cut 3 -- what, five ways? Something? Four ways? 4 MS. UECKER: Actually -- yeah, District 5 Clerk, County Clerk, J.P.'s 1, 2, and 3, and the Sheriff's 6 Office. So, that's actually -- 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Six. 8 MS. UECKER: Six ways. Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Should be 3,700 each? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 11 MS. UECKER: Right. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 13 MS. UECKER: Software Maintenance, 563. And 14 what I had in there, and you did too, was the $13,776. 15 About a month ago, I found out that one of the other 16 offices -- I think the County Clerk -- had been okaying a 17 couple of -- or one maintenance bill for me, so I had to go 18 in and do a budget amendment. So, that line item should 19 probably -- should be increased to $15,242, rather than the 20 13. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Say again? 15? 22 MS. UECKER: 15,242. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: And that -- that's your 24 current fixed cost on that particular item? 25 MS. UECKER: Right. 8-24-04 wk 13 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 2 MS. UECKER: And what that was -- let me see. 3 That was the -- that was the new program on -- I don't 4 remember. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: About $1,500 worth. 6 MS. UECKER: Yeah. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 8 MS. UECKER: I can find out what it was, but 9 it was the latest program on imaging. That's what it was, 10 on the imaging. Other than that, Operating Equipment or 11 Capital Outlay, wherever you want to put it, $2,100 I need, 12 at least, and I just asked for one new computer and two 13 printers. I've got one -- one printer dead, and another 14 one -- and these are not that expensive and not worth -- it 15 costs more to repair them than it does to replace them. I 16 had amended my budget request for Law Library computers -- 17 well, we're not on Law Library yet. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Are you through with this one? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: At this point, one 20 quickie. On your Lease Copier expense, is that a new copy 21 machine where the fee's going to go up, or do they bill per 22 copy cost on the lease, or what? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: I didn't cut that one. 24 MS. UECKER: The original budget was $4,000; 25 that's what I asked for. 8-24-04 wk 14 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Okay. 2 MS. UECKER: I think -- oh, I know why I 3 added that. The 3,570 is based on the exact amount, up to a 4 certain amount of copies. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which, apparently, 6 you're exceeding this year. 7 MS. UECKER: Right, because of a couple of 8 large cases that we've tried. We have to make copies for 9 the judges and the juries. And I know that we have a couple 10 of -- well, one for sure that's coming up this next year 11 where the same thing will probably happen, where we'll 12 exceed the minimum amount of copies that we can make at that 13 cost per month. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: With your usage up 15 already this year, are you sure four is enough? 16 MS. UECKER: Well, I don't know. I wondered 17 about the same thing. Maybe not. That's $500 -- a little 18 bit less than a $500 increase. I would say let's try it and 19 see. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 21 MS. UECKER: The only other thing, I talked 22 to -- Jannett's not in here, is she? As some of you 23 probably know -- or the Judge knows, Jannett and I have been 24 visiting with Del Holzer from Landata about putting our 25 records out on -- on the internet. And I think the Court 8-24-04 wk 15 1 has already approved Jannett to do that. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: She's doing that in this 3 budget year. 4 MS. UECKER: Right. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: She's acquiring the license in 6 this budget year. 7 MS. UECKER: Well, at the time we thought 8 that I could piggy-back in on that and not have to pay that 9 other $15,000, the initial setup fee. But I talked to Del 10 this morning, and -- and that can't happen. He gave us the 11 wrong information. We would have -- for me, we would have 12 to pay the $15,000 setup fee. The other problem is, it 13 doesn't -- you can't put documents out on the internet that 14 have not been scanned into the program. Everything I have 15 is on microfilm. But -- so, to be able to sell that 16 document on the internet, those all have to be scanned. Of 17 course, I started scanning January the 1st, so there are 18 some documents out there to be put over the internet, but 19 it's not enough right now to justify what the costs would be 20 to get it there. And I told Mr. Holzer that, and I said -- 21 well, he said it would be pretty easy to image all of your 22 documents, because you do have them all on microfilm. We 23 wouldn't have to pull hard documents. We could just take 24 the tapes and -- and make the digital images from that. 25 So he gave me a figure of the $15,000 plus, 8-24-04 wk 16 1 based on 532 rolls of film, at about -- at an average of 2 2,000 shots per roll, would cost us, in addition to the 3 $15,000, $53,200 to get those digitized, put out on the 4 internet. Of course, for -- and right now, I can't see that 5 that would -- could be justified for me, because there is a 6 different type of customer out there asking for County Clerk 7 records. I know the County Clerks are making -- you know, 8 they're bringing in big money on this, and I think it's 9 great. But it's a different type of record, and they're -- 10 they're having -- they're getting the requests for documents 11 from all over the country, even Alaska. But it's land 12 records, birth records, marriage records, death records. 13 That's where they're getting the money. 14 Being court records, we have a different type 15 situation altogether. Most of our records come from the 16 individuals that are getting the records, either for Social 17 Security purposes or marriages or whatever. The other ones 18 come from -- the requests come from attorneys or security 19 people or abstract companies. And I'm not sure -- you know, 20 there really hasn't been a test market out there on this for 21 district clerks, so we don't know what the yields would be. 22 And although I'd like to do it, in all honesty, I don't know 23 that we could justify it right now, especially since -- 24 although I'm now collecting a $5 fee for records management 25 that goes just for district clerk's purposes. There's three 8-24-04 wk 17 1 funds there now. And, in this short time, I have not 2 collected enough to even think about this, I don't think. 3 Now, in talking to Mr. Holzer, though, he did say that 4 they -- they could work with us, in that the $15,000 would 5 have to be paid up front, but the $53,000 would come from -- 6 could be paid as that fee comes in and as that fund 7 increases every year, based on what the amount would be. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can you explain how this 9 system works? 10 MS. UECKER: How -- how this works is, 11 Landata is the company, and there's several companies out 12 there doing it. I think this is probably one of the more 13 reputable ones. What they do is, they maintain a website -- 14 and that's the other good thing -- where Jannett and 15 myself -- it would be a wonderful website that would 16 maintain all of the information that we would want to put on 17 there. That's kind of a given. Then there are -- then you 18 can go in and access all of the records that you can 19 digitize that have been scanned into that system. You can 20 order them like you order anything else online. You click 21 on it, give them your credit card number. Now, where the 22 County makes the money is, of that fee, if they sell $10 23 worth of copies, Landata gets $4 of it; Kerr County gets $6 24 of it. We get $6 for doing nothing except having our 25 records available. Now, like I was saying, for county 8-24-04 wk 18 1 clerks, their fee, that's going to be paid for pretty quick 2 because of the high volume of records that are going to be 3 requested. After two years is up, they can -- we can 4 negotiate with them to increase our percentage to higher 5 than 60 percent if the volume for them is there. 6 The other perk -- the other pro would be it 7 is an excellent way for clerks to have automatic backup 8 disaster control, you know. Of course, I don't have that 9 problem, I don't think, because I've got all of my records 10 on microfilm, and the originals are in a safe place in 11 Austin, Texas, certified by the State Library. But I know 12 there's a lot of -- you know, a lot of clerks that don't, 13 and I'm one of the very few that has everything that way. 14 But it would be real easy for reestablishing all of your 15 records if they're lost. Damage control, website 16 maintenance, disaster backup. I don't know. At this point, 17 this year, I'm not sure that it would be totally justified 18 for me. I don't think that the requests are going to be out 19 there for district clerks. And I would hate to be the test 20 county, unless they want to, you know, give us a heck of a 21 break on being the test county to see what district clerks 22 bring in. For county clerks, it's working wonderful because 23 of the type of work that they have. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: If and when it's 25 fully implemented, will it result in a need for fewer 8-24-04 wk 19 1 clerical personnel? 2 MS. UECKER: Possibility, but it would be 3 for -- that's for copies only. We don't do that many copy 4 requests generally. I could understand where that might be 5 the case in -- where the high volume is, but that -- I mean, 6 it would be minimal, if it was. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would think -- I mean, 8 I agree with you; I don't think you would have near the 9 volume potential as the County Clerk does. But it seems to 10 me it would be a -- in either office, it could be a pretty 11 big personnel savings, because the -- both staffs are very 12 accommodating to help people find the stuff. 13 MS. UECKER: Mm-hmm. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And if people can find it 15 online, I think it would free them up from being 16 interrupted. 17 MS. UECKER: That's a good point, because the 18 website actually helps them find it. In other words, they 19 don't have to call the clerk and say, "Would you look up a 20 deed from such-and-such to such-and-such?" Ten minutes 21 later, he comes online and says, "Oh, okay, I found it. 22 Okay, I want a copy of it." The web site actually helps the 23 person -- the user locate the record. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Linda, if you know, 25 is this software limited to just county clerk, for example, 8-24-04 wk 20 1 and/or district clerk? Or can it be any county office that 2 might have -- 3 MS. UECKER: Any county office. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- document or copy 5 demand? 6 MS. UECKER: Any county office where there 7 are -- where there is a public need for record searches or 8 copies or whatever. It's not just limited to county and 9 district clerks, although that is the highest. The county 10 clerks mostly are the ones that are using it. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I bet you that it 12 would take years to educate the public that they could go 13 online and get it, anyway. I mean, most people are going to 14 still come to your office physically and -- and ask for a 15 hard copy right there. 16 MS. UECKER: Well, Del -- we used Brazoria 17 County, specifically the County Clerk's office. Of course, 18 they're three or four times as big as we are, and they 19 thought they were going to have the same issue there. But 20 because there was -- because -- and the local people still 21 do, but those that are out of state, they know that many, 22 many counties are now putting their records out there on the 23 web. Bexar County has theirs on the web. Travis County, 24 all of the large counties have all of their records out on 25 the web, you know, and they start looking, and they pull it 8-24-04 wk 21 1 up and -- "Oh, look, there's Kerr County. Oh, there's 2 divorce records." The only problem I have with putting 3 criminal cases out there on the web site is because -- and 4 I'm not sure that the liability would be with me, but I 5 might put a record out there on the web, State vs. Jane Doe, 6 and Buster comes along and buys a copy. Subsequently, 7 there's an order for expunction signed by the Judge. I've 8 expunged everything in my files on it, but Buster's still 9 got a copy of it. That's one concern that I have about 10 doing criminal records out there. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Have you asked them 12 how to deal with that? Have they not made a provision for 13 that? 14 MS. UECKER: You can't. There's no way you 15 can, unless they chase him down and yank his copy out of his 16 little hand. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, it's for sale. 18 Believe me, my copy's for sale. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: You mentioned something about 20 your Law Library account that -- 21 MS. UECKER: Yes. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: -- you want to talk about with 23 us? 24 MS. UECKER: I had given you, Judge, an 25 amended request for some new computers. Those computers 8-24-04 wk 22 1 that are in there are -- 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What page? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: 80. 4 MS. UECKER: -- are part of the old 5 computers, the very first ones that were built out of pieces 6 from some computer company that we were using up here off -- 7 across from the high school. And -- and I was wanting -- 8 none of those were working recently. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, now, looking in your Law 10 Library account, I don't -- I don't see that. Unless 11 they're -- 12 MS. UECKER: Well, I gave it to you 13 afterwards. I gave it to you a couple of weeks later, after 14 I got frustrated with the fact that the computers were not 15 working in the Law Library; had not been working for two 16 years, although I requested to have them repaired. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What was your request 18 now, the amount? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: I apologize. For some reason, 20 I didn't get it in here. 21 MS. UECKER: The request was for two new 22 computers for $2,400. However, Commissioner, all four 23 computers are working right now. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, do you want to 25 come back next week and tell us, or do you want to deal with 8-24-04 wk 23 1 it now? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: That's kind of like the two 3 weeks after you turned in your budget, huh? 4 MS. UECKER: Exactly. Exactly. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: I think you know the answer to 6 the question that's before us now. 7 MS. UECKER: I don't know how long they're 8 going to be working. I would really like to see us at least 9 replace one of them. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If you put it in and 11 they continue to work, you don't have to spend it. 12 MS. UECKER: No, I don't. I had requested 13 $2,400 for two new computers. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And this is a separate 15 fund from the General Fund? 16 MS. UECKER: Right. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, it comes out of a 18 dedicated -- 19 MS. UECKER: Can't be used for anything else. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Every case that's filed, 21 there's a certain amount that goes in there. Is it $35 22 still? 23 MS. UECKER: $35 a case. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Really? 25 MR. TOMLINSON: We have more money in there 8-24-04 wk 24 1 than we can spend. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Pardon? 3 MR. TOMLINSON: We have more money in there 4 than we can spend. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Whoa. 6 MR. TOMLINSON: Law Library. 7 MS. UECKER: Let's put it in. If I don't 8 need them, then -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What if I told you my 10 library in here needs a new computer? 11 MS. UECKER: So far, I think the system of 12 everybody bringing me their bills for their Law Library -- I 13 mean their books and stuff is working out. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I think it's catching on, and 15 it's -- 16 MS. UECKER: Yeah, catching on. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: More of them are going to 18 do it, because they don't have any money in their own 19 budget. 20 MS. UECKER: That was the whole idea. You 21 didn't put any money in their budgets last year. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Some of them did. 23 MS. UECKER: They did? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But they're not going 25 to this year; they're going to come see you. 8-24-04 wk 25 1 MS. UECKER: They'll come see me. 2 MR. TOMLINSON: There's $105,000 in that 3 fund. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Boy, my Law Library 5 computer is out, too. 6 (Discussion off the record.) 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, you get two new 8 ones. Then, if the ones you have are still working, they 9 can go somewhere else. Judge needs a computer. 10 MS. UECKER: I can talk to you about that 11 later if you want me to, but that could actually be a 12 possibility. As long as you put Westlaw under something. I 13 don't see that that -- 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Probably the main reason I'd 15 want it is to do research. 16 MS. UECKER: Then you could probably buy one 17 out of the Law Library fund. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or the Sheriff always 19 needs stuff. 20 MS. UECKER: Mm-hmm, yeah. The Sheriff and I 21 recently got a new program through Westlaw that's being paid 22 for by the Law Library. So -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 24 MS. UECKER: What else? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: $2,400, Capital Outlay? 8-24-04 wk 26 1 MS. UECKER: Yes. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: You get that? Okay. Thank 3 you, ma'am. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Linda. 5 MS. UECKER: Thank you. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: If Mr. Holekamp's unkind to 7 you in the next week or so, you'll understand it's 'cause 8 you took up 10 minutes of his time. 9 MS. UECKER: Mr. Holekamp and I got it all 10 worked out. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: I see. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're looking very 13 bright today. 14 MS. UECKER: Thank you. 15 MR. HOLEKAMP: We've got it worked out. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: He didn't realize you were 17 going to show up 10 minutes late, though. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You'll get the list 19 later, Glenn. 20 MR. HOLEKAMP: Well, I'm down to what, five 21 minutes left? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What page are you on? 23 MR. HOLEKAMP: 40? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 40? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 40. 8-24-04 wk 27 1 MR. HOLEKAMP: Courthouse and Related. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Have you got any 3 money in the budget for WD-40 for this squeaky chair? 4 MR. HOLEKAMP: No, we use a Teflon; we don't 5 use WD-40. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Think somebody can 7 swatch chairs with me? 8 MR. HOLEKAMP: I'm glad you mentioned it. I 9 guess we need to sit in them and turn every once in a while 10 and see if they need it. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Did you use Teflon tape 12 on them? 13 MR. HOLEKAMP: We use Teflon spray. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, spray? 15 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yeah, 'cause WD-40 usually 16 will rust. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Are you on the Courthouse and 18 Related Buildings, Page 40? 19 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. I just -- if y'all 20 want to just kind of run down it, I have no problems with 21 the Judge's recommended changes. As I had indicated to him, 22 I'm not sure about the supplies. We reduced it from 24,000 23 to 21,000. There's a lot of unknowns with chemicals and 24 paper supplies. We're seeing some increases now in some of 25 those areas due to transportation costs. Manufacturers -- 8-24-04 wk 28 1 they've been able to hold our lines pretty well, but where 2 we used to have all of our shipping being paid for by the -- 3 the supplier, they're passing shipping along to us now, and 4 I think it is a transportation issue. But I -- as I told 5 him, I will work with whatever we need to. Under Major 6 Repairs and Capital Outlay, those are the other ones that 7 there were some changes on. The Judge -- and he may be able 8 to explain this better than me. I have Major Repairs in -- 9 there's a possibility we'll be able to do some closing in of 10 that basement area down here with -- if I get the right kind 11 of community service people; that I buy the material and 12 we'll be able to do some of that, whether it be the floor, 13 the ceiling or whatever, this coming year, and not do too 14 many walls. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that in the Major 16 Repairs right now? 17 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, or Capital Outlay. We 18 put 7,500 in each. And the reason was, is capital -- 19 Capital Outlay would probably be for the hard supplies, and 20 then the Major Repairs would be -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: We're anticipating an 22 air-conditioner, I think. 23 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yeah, an air-conditioner, the 24 one over in -- 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Judge Brown's. 8-24-04 wk 29 1 MR. HOLEKAMP: -- Judge Brown's courtroom. 2 That one's about 20 -- 24 years old, but it's been holding 3 up, and we're not going to change it until we need to. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, if at all 5 possible, we should, in that hallway down there, get signs 6 that aren't hanging from coat hangars -- from the wires. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We ought to put a 8 suspended ceiling. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Put a suspended ceiling 10 and proper signage. 11 MR. HOLEKAMP: Mm-hmm. I really would like 12 to, and I think the money in this would adequately provide 13 for that. Because using either trustees or community 14 service, either one, to do some -- the labor part of it, 15 we've been very successful at doing that. It just is 16 timing. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What about that large -- 18 well, it's two large spaces down there, one area that we 19 have our meetings or courthouse luncheons and things. 20 MR. HOLEKAMP: Mm-hmm. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Any plans for that space? 22 MR. HOLEKAMP: Well, in the long-range, what 23 the plans that were approved when they did that 24 construction, that is a restroom area. The plumbing is 25 there to just put in the bathrooms. And I will tell you, at 8-24-04 wk 30 1 some point, and it's not that far off, by the numbers of 2 people that you serve on that floor, you're going to be 3 required to have certain numbers of bathrooms, and we're 4 going to get there. See, right now, we have the one -- two 5 sets -- two bathrooms in that hallway between the County 6 Attorney and J.P. 3, but that was there already before we 7 had Juvenile, Treasurer, and Environmental Health. So, I 8 really think we are going to -- in the not-so-distant 9 future, we're going to have to consider putting in a set of 10 bathrooms there. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the cost of a set 12 of bathrooms? 13 MR. HOLEKAMP: Well, fixtures -- I'd have 14 to -- no, I can't just do it off the top of my head. I 15 would imagine about $60 a square foot. And that would be -- 16 those two would be -- that's with ceiling, walls, and 17 everything. I'm talking about closing it in. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: $10,000 for restrooms? 19 MR. HOLEKAMP: I think we could do it for 20 that. But that is one thing that's going to have to be done 21 at some point in time. And I don't know -- A.D.A. really 22 has a lot of those numbers, that you have "X" number of 23 people, and then it triggers more bathrooms. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The other area that may 25 need some work done there is that -- I guess it's 8-24-04 wk 31 1 technically called the courtroom. 2 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, it does. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Between J.P. 3 and the 4 County Attorney. That, to me, is wasted space. And I think 5 that the County Attorney is probably in need of room, and 6 has been for some time. I'd probably authorize that this 7 year, which I don't think it costs that much to frame out an 8 office in there. 9 MR. HOLEKAMP: No, it wouldn't. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Put an office in there, 11 and then do restrooms the next year. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I thought we had 13 talked about -- or authorized or talked about giving the 14 County Attorney more space last year. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We talked about it. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We did. That number 17 is figured in here, isn't it? Expanding the County 18 Attorney's office out into that old courtroom? 19 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yeah. Material-wise, yes, but 20 I don't -- I'm not figuring any labor in any of these 21 numbers. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, that's fine. 23 MR. HOLEKAMP: Because I like to do it 24 in-house. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's good. But that 8-24-04 wk 32 1 is your thinking with these numbers here? 2 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: As long as -- yeah, okay. 5 I want to make sure that we get basically that hallway fixed 6 up and the County Attorney done this year. 7 MR. HOLEKAMP: The restroom thing probably is 8 not in here. That would not be in here. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And then next year, do 10 the final step down there, finish it out, which would be the 11 restrooms, would be my plan. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Glenn, I have a 13 question. 14 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I guess it comes 16 under your repairs and maintenance. It probably doesn't 17 fall under Major Repair. I see that that number's been 18 increased. 19 MR. HOLEKAMP: Mm-hmm. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Have you plugged in 21 taking care of some of these old courthouse windows and 22 doors that need replacement or repair? 23 MR. HOLEKAMP: Well, we have -- we're doing 24 that with some -- how would I say that? There are 25 professional painters and renovation people that are on 8-24-04 wk 33 1 community service, and one of the problems I've had is -- 2 now, the windows, we -- we recaulked these windows this last 3 year and repainted them all the way around the old 4 courthouse. We reglazed them. That was done with community 5 service people. I intend to do some stuff with some of 6 these doors. I have some people scheduled; they just 7 haven't done it yet. And once they're assigned, it's real 8 hard to -- to hold their feet to the fire to give them an 9 exact timeline that they perform it. We -- we do the best 10 that we can by getting these people to agree to do it, and 11 kind of check out their credentials, so to speak. But then 12 the way probation and community service works is, if they 13 meet the obligation of eight hours a week, or eight hours 14 every two weeks, we can't really make them work more than 15 that to fulfill their obligation. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand that. I 17 guess what I'm getting at is, why would it take six years to 18 replace that door that's about to fall apart coming in the 19 back end of the courthouse? 20 MR. HOLEKAMP: You know, that was 21 interesting. Two local woodworking people came over, 22 measured it, priced it, and then were not able to -- to make 23 it. They said I'd have to go to San Antonio, and I dropped 24 the ball after that. I was trying to do business locally. 25 But -- 8-24-04 wk 34 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The bottom line is, 2 it is going to be included in this year's budget? 3 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes. It can be, yes, sir. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good. 5 MR. HOLEKAMP: All right. On the -- just 6 briefly, on salaries, they've stayed pretty much the same. 7 There were some changes in part-time that I requested. I 8 would also like to make it clear that there's a possibility 9 some of that'll be contracted, and not part-time. Right at 10 this moment, this is where it's at, but if I can contract 11 for a better deal for Kerr County, I'll do that. That -- 12 that doesn't -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It probably ought to be a 14 separate line item if we go that route. 15 MR. HOLEKAMP: Well, I -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 'Cause it's treated 17 differently from -- 18 MR. HOLEKAMP: Okay, I got -- Jon, down here, 19 it is on this line, 553. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 21 MR. HOLEKAMP: But I have -- and what I'm 22 trying to say is, is on 108, Part-Time, I had a person that 23 has left that's part-time, and if I can make it work, some 24 of that money's going to have to go down to here, is what 25 I -- 8-24-04 wk 35 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Budget amendment. It's 2 in here? 3 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes. I just can't make that 4 decision right -- with these budget things right now, 5 because I don't know what I'm going to do. All right? 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Are any of the 7 maintenance personnel in this budget -- are they working on 8 the Ag Barn? 9 MR. HOLEKAMP: No, sir. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that all on this 11 particular -- 12 MR. HOLEKAMP: Budget? No. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: -- item? Okay. We -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait. Did you say no? 15 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir, I said no. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You said, "Is that 17 all?" And he said no. 18 MR. HOLEKAMP: No. I answered his question. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Try yours 20 again, 'cause I have a question or two. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Are we through with the 22 Courthouse and Related Buildings portion of your budget? 23 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. I have a couple 25 of items I wanted to bring up on -- I don't think they're 8-24-04 wk 36 1 major repairs; it's just issues that need to be taken care 2 of. The back door was one. And I would -- I would really 3 appreciate if you'd consider some kind of pressure wash on 4 the building. If you look at these -- like, the upstairs 5 corners and the front door -- right above the front door, I 6 mean, it's almost black mold, or black something that's 7 grown on there, and I would just assume that you can 8 pressure wash that stuff off. Maybe not. 9 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yeah, we can. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: May have to get -- get 11 all the prisoners over here with toothbrushes. I don't know 12 how you do that. But the -- if you -- if you stop and look 13 at this building, there are -- there's black all around the 14 old building. And the flagpole -- that flagpole needs to be 15 painted. I don't know how you do that either. This guy's 16 not going to do it. But does that flagpole break down? 17 MR. HOLEKAMP: No, sir. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're going to climb 19 it and paint it? 20 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yeah, someone will. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mike's big lift will 22 get you there. Going to rent out a big crane. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just needs to be done 24 to kind of dress things up around here. 25 MR. HOLEKAMP: Okay. 8-24-04 wk 37 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything further on that 2 particular budget? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: None from me, Judge. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 5 MR. HOLEKAMP: Jail Maintenance, 511? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 7 MR. HOLEKAMP: The only change in that one 8 there -- substantial change was an increase in Jail Repairs 9 by 10 percent -- I mean, by $10,000. The reason is, the 10 jail is going to be, next year, ten years old, and we're 11 starting to see some areas that is -- is costing a little 12 bit more. We're having to go back to the factory for some 13 stuff, and those costs are going to go up, okay? That's all 14 I have on that. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Any questions on Jail 16 Maintenance? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ag Barn is -- 18 MR. HOLEKAMP: Next one would be Parks 19 Maintenance; that's 513. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 21 MR. HOLEKAMP: There's really no changes 22 there at all. Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What page is that? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: 44. 25 MR. HOLEKAMP: That would be 44. 8-24-04 wk 38 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I thought I had a 2 question. 3 MR. HOLEKAMP: On mine? Okay. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No. Where did I see 5 a large amount of money for Flat Rock Lake Park? 6 MR. HOLEKAMP: For what? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In Parks. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: It's in the -- 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In the Parks, itself. 10 It's not Parks Maintenance. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's later. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay, later. 13 MR. HOLEKAMP: Okay. Then 666, which is 14 Youth Exhibit Center. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What page? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 68. 17 MR. HOLEKAMP: All right. There were -- the 18 Judge made a few changes here. Nothing that I can't live 19 with. We -- salaries are down approximately 8,000 -- 20 $8,000, $9,000 from last year at that facility. We get down 21 to -- the only one that I have in mind that's concerning me 22 a little bit, and I mentioned it to the Judge, is Vehicle 23 Maintenance. All these vehicles -- these trucks, our 24 maintenance trucks that they use out there, are getting 25 older, and, you know, that's one of those things you just 8-24-04 wk 39 1 don't know from one year to the other what it's going to 2 cost you to get them -- keep them running. So, I'd -- like 3 I said, I'll live with whatever we get. It's just one of 4 those things that is -- I hope it's going to work out. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: One item on there also on 6 Capital Outlay. 7 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yeah, that's on this second 8 page. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Before you get to 10 that, Commissioner Williams promised a new speaker system. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I got my request 12 right here. Sound system. Is that under 569? 13 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, it is under 570. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, $60,000 sound 15 system. Wow. 16 MR. HOLEKAMP: No -- 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're going to 18 resonate all over the county. 19 MR. HOLEKAMP: No, the -- in the Capital 20 Outlay, I -- what I'm thinking is -- is that the sound 21 system repair is approximately 7,300-some-odd -- wasn't it? 22 73? That's the repair. The replacement was considerably 23 higher. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the replacement 25 cost? 8-24-04 wk 40 1 MR. HOLEKAMP: 33,998 was replacement. And 2 the repair, which he said would really -- really do what 3 we're trying to do right now, 7,448. The remainder of that 4 money, that 60,000, is -- and I don't know how y'all want to 5 do this. We got to do something about that roof. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What's the 7 consequences of not doing anything? 8 MR. HOLEKAMP: Well, I'm going to probably 9 have to take ceiling tile out of there and just expose the 10 top, because during events when it rains, the ceiling tiles 11 are falling on people sitting in the -- watching events, and 12 that's really not a -- it's not real conducive to, you know, 13 a dance or -- it's not real pleasurable. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Glenn, you're talking 15 about a roof -- 16 MR. HOLEKAMP: No, I -- no, I'm just -- I'm 17 talking about repairing the roof. I'm not talking about 18 replacing -- I'm not -- I have not got -- we went to that 19 trouble -- or not that trouble. Two years ago, we went to 20 extensive pricing of replacement and all of this, and that 21 was over -- it was, like, 96,000, 100,000, something like 22 that for that roof. And, you know, we've -- whatever we do, 23 we're going to have to try to keep the water out of there 24 some way or another. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I can tell you 8-24-04 wk 41 1 right now, I think it's foolish to try to repair a flat 2 roof. That's throwing money down a hole. We need to put a 3 roof-roof on that building. That's foolish, in my opinion. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A vaulted roof would 5 be a pretty sizable expense. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't see you have 7 any choice. You're going to be doing the same thing again 8 next year. 9 MR. HOLEKAMP: Well, I put -- I put those two 10 items, you know, here, 60,000 and -- in here, and y'all can 11 kind of do -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So you'd have 53,000 13 left over to do -- to repair the roof? 14 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yeah, approximately. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Repair a flat roof. 16 MR. HOLEKAMP: And I'm -- you know, I don't 17 know what it's going to -- what they're going to get into 18 once they peel that other -- that fabric off. I don't know. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Don't tell anybody I 20 had anything to do with it. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question on the sound 22 system. The repair of the current system, is it a -- and 23 I'm not familiar. Is that a totally portable system that's 24 out there now? And the $7,400 system is a totally portable 25 system when it's completed? 8-24-04 wk 42 1 MR. HOLEKAMP: It'll be totally portable if 2 you pull the speakers out, yes, sir. And the wiring that 3 goes in with those speakers that they're going to -- see, 4 what happened, a lot of that stuff is real old, and they 5 bought speakers that didn't fit those kind of P.A.'s. Well, 6 what happens is the P.A.'s are -- when you start 7 broadcasting, try to go loud, they're throwing -- the 8 speakers are throwing too much current back, and it's 9 kicking the breakers. So, what happened is they're 10 wrong-sized, a lot of it. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Speakers are drawing 12 more off the amp than the amp can supply? 13 MR. HOLEKAMP: That is correct. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that what is 15 causing the -- 16 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- cut-outs all the 18 time? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: When there's three people 20 near each other, none of them can talk. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That happens over in 22 the arena more than it happens in the pig barn. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Only one person is 24 talking in the pig barn. In the arena, where there's three 25 sets of microphones -- 8-24-04 wk 43 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- it's just total 3 shutdown a lot of the time. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The problems we -- I 5 understand. We talked about that. What we encountered in 6 the hog barn last year, and year before and the year before, 7 had to do with just flat cut-outs. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And that's because 10 those speakers are -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- require more 13 amperage than those amps can provide, and just bottom out. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess I'm kind of at 15 the same on the speaker system or sound system as where 16 Buster is with the roof; that I want -- if we're spending 17 $7,400, this thing better work everywhere. I mean, or we 18 need to get a new system. I mean, it's -- 33,000 is a whole 19 lot more than 7,400, but if 7,400 doesn't truly fix it, I'm 20 not in favor of spending it. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Does it fix the arena 22 problem that the Commissioner is talking about? 23 MR. HOLEKAMP: According to Sound 24 Distributors, the professionals, yes, it will. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. As long as they -- 8-24-04 wk 44 1 MR. HOLEKAMP: And I did ask him when I was 2 talking to him, I said, you know, if -- if, for some reason, 3 we make some changes, can we take those speakers and use 4 them later? Absolutely. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Are those weatherproof 6 speakers? What if they get wet? 7 MR. HOLEKAMP: What do you mean? Raining on 8 them? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Or leaking on them. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are they bell 11 speakers that you hang or that you got to imbed in that 12 suspended ceiling? 13 MR. HOLEKAMP: I think they're hung bell 14 speakers. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They're already hung 16 bells? 17 MR. HOLEKAMP: I think so. I haven't studied 18 all of this. I've just -- everything is in this package. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Glenn, can you tell 21 me, give me a ballpark -- maybe the County Auditor can -- of 22 how much income you've taken in on renting the facility out? 23 MR. HOLEKAMP: I don't have it with me. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just a ballpark. 25 MR. TOMLINSON: It was actual -- last year 8-24-04 wk 45 1 was 25,000. We're at 25,000 currently. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 25? 3 MR. TOMLINSON: 25. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How much of that -- 5 that's a gross number? 6 MR. TOMLINSON: That's net. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Net? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a net number? 9 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's after what we 11 give to the livestock show? Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Year-to-date is 25 13 this year? Is that what he said? 14 MR. HOLEKAMP: Mm-hmm. We should go above 15 last year. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 17 MR. HOLEKAMP: Based on those figures. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: If we look at that 19 operation as being two pieces of business; one's the youth 20 livestock show, and that's -- I view that as an obligation 21 that the County has, the reason the Ag Barn exists, and then 22 the rest of it is a convenience to organizations in the 23 county, some of them profits and some are not-for-profits, I 24 wonder if it makes any difference if we -- if we lose 25 customers. For example, on the roof issue, it might suggest 8-24-04 wk 46 1 that taking the tiles out so that they don't fall on people 2 and letting the roof leak would be a solution. I don't 3 think that, for the livestock show, it makes any difference 4 if you're under a leaky roof. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the problem, as I see 6 it, is that the stock show is good and we need to take care 7 of the stock show, but we also have -- 4-H uses that 8 facility, and that's a county function, and a lot of kids 9 participate in 4-H. So, I mean, it's not just a -- and you 10 may -- I mean, your analogy may be okay; let them leak on 11 the 4-H kids, but it's -- there's -- you can't just -- I 12 mean, going in the direction of shutting down the facility 13 except for the stock show doesn't work unless we do 14 something else somewhere to make room for 4-H and other 15 county functions. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It was at the stock 17 show, I reminded everybody last year, that the ceiling 18 collapsed on top of the bidders. 19 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: And there was an incident of 21 that sort; a lady got hammered by one of the ceiling tiles, 22 I recall. 23 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. We change them -- 24 we change them out as we notice them getting wet, as fast as 25 we can, but -- 8-24-04 wk 47 1 JUDGE TINLEY: If they don't get too wet, 2 they don't get heavy enough to fall. 3 MR. HOLEKAMP: That is correct. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: When they get heavy, 5 they fall. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're really having 8 this conversation? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sounds like it's time 10 for a new building, Commissioner. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: With the -- taking those 12 acoustic tiles out, is there a way to address -- I mean, 13 what's up there is really ugly. Could it be made to look 14 like a lot of new construction that has -- 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's ugly. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's a good 17 question. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 'Cause there's a lot -- 19 you can -- more and more, new construction is -- let all 20 this stuff be exposed. A good example is Tivy High School. 21 Every -- all the vents and everything up there is exposed, 22 and it looks okay. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pretty hard to make a 24 party barn out of it now. Once you take that ceiling down, 25 it will not be a party barn at all. 8-24-04 wk 48 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I'm not saying take 2 it down and leave it. I'm saying take it down and do 3 something else to it; get rid of the tiles, which I think 4 are a problem in that type of facility anyway. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: You want your name on that, 6 Commissioner Baldwin? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir. We need a 8 new roof. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: A lot of new 10 construction looks that way. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mm-hmm. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Convention Center in 13 San Antonio looks that way. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Increases the heat and 15 air-conditioning. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, that's true. If 17 you don't design it properly, it does increase utilities. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, about this 19 time every year we try to put some lipstick on this pig, and 20 then we come back in next year; it's just as ugly as it was 21 the year before. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pig needs a new barn. 23 Been saying that for a long time. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't disagree with 25 that, Commissioner. 8-24-04 wk 49 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So does the goat, the 2 sheep, and the cow, and some people too. 3 MR. HOLEKAMP: Well -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Going back to the roof 5 one more time, I mean, Commissioner Baldwin's pretty 6 convinced that we can't repair a flat roof. I don't know. 7 I mean, is there -- if we fix it or patch it, is there a 8 guarantee that goes along with it? 9 MR. HOLEKAMP: Not unless we go really 10 extensive, peeling everything off. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Glenn, as a 12 Maintenance Supervisor, would you recommend a flat roof? 13 MR. HOLEKAMP: Oh, no, sir. No, sir. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely not. 15 MR. HOLEKAMP: But when you're talking -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: In the long haul, 17 you're in the maintenance mode all the time. 18 MR. HOLEKAMP: No, sir, and I know what 19 you're asking me. But you're asking whether Kerr County 20 should spend 60,000 or 50,000 to patch -- to keep the water 21 from coming in, or spend a quarter of a million to put a 22 roof over that thing. I don't think, as a maintenance 23 person, I should make that recommendation. I'm -- because 24 that is a large amount of money. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 8-24-04 wk 50 1 MR. HOLEKAMP: And I understand you -- what 2 you're looking at is a long-term fix. By putting a roof 3 over that thing that would -- if I had the money, I would 4 say yes, it probably would be a smart thing to do. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can you get a cost on a 7 new vaulted -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do this. 9 (Indicating.) 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- a new roof like this 11 in the next week? I mean -- 12 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- a budget-type number. 14 Not necessarily a bid number, just a -- 15 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. Yeah. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just on the front part of 17 the Exhibit Hall. 18 MR. HOLEKAMP: Exhibit Hall, yeah. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And then, while 20 you're out there, get the cost for the walls that go with 21 the new roof. 22 MR. HOLEKAMP: I'm sorry, I didn't hear you. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I said then, while 24 you're out there, get some costs for the four walls that go 25 with the new roof. 8-24-04 wk 51 1 MR. HOLEKAMP: Okay. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: And the heat and A/C to more 3 efficiently heat and cool. 4 MR. HOLEKAMP: Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just deal with the roof. 6 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yeah, because if the roof goes 7 away, those air-conditioners are going to have to go away. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, why don't we just 9 make it open-air? Everybody can enjoy the sky. 10 MR. HOLEKAMP: See, there's several issues 11 here that it's going to -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Look at repair -- I mean, 13 get an idea what the cost of a -- to truly repair the 14 Exhibit Hall. 15 MR. HOLEKAMP: Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: New roof. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Holekamp. 18 MR. HOLEKAMP: Thank you. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: We're running about 20 minutes 20 behind here. Next item is Juvenile Probation. It's going 21 to get us to Page 53. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Hello, Kevin. 23 MR. STANTON: Morning, sir -- afternoon. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: This budget was approved by 25 the Juvenile Board, I believe. 8-24-04 wk 52 1 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir, it was. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What page are we on, 3 Judge? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: 53. 5 MR. STANTON: August 12th of '04. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. We're in favor of 8 it. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, we're in favor 10 of it. Let's move on. That's an old county budget cheer, 11 guys. 12 MR. STANTON: Somebody ask me a question. I 13 get to come up here every time. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that a new tie? 15 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir, it is. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Nice to see you. 17 MR. STANTON: Thank you. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We have a clear 19 understanding of the Juvenile Board. Clear understanding. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can you explain -- here's 21 a question. Explain why Alternate Housing is going up about 22 45,000. 23 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir, I can. We're -- 24 we're actually detaining and having to place more kids. 25 This last budget year, we actually -- it's something that 8-24-04 wk 53 1 we've tried to do every year, but this last budget year, 2 just so the County Commissioners will know this, the 3 Juvenile Probation Department was able to secure an extra 4 $85,936 from the State of Texas to use for residential 5 placement of kids outside of Kerr County, on top of what's 6 budgeted in the county budget, along with the other state 7 budgets that we use for alternate housing. And because of 8 increased detention rates -- or not increased detention 9 rates. Because of the -- the amount of kids that we're 10 having to place and the amount of kids we're having to put 11 in detention for longer periods of time, our costs of 12 alternate housing has gone up. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How much did we get from 14 the State? 15 MR. STANTON: Last year, above and beyond our 16 normal budget that we require from the State, we got an 17 additional $85,936. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Under -- 19 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm sorry, go ahead. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Isn't the figure this 21 year for Alternate Housing a substantial increase from the 22 year before that? Didn't we go up, like, 50,000 last year 23 also? 24 MR. STANTON: I believe it went up a little 25 over 20,000. 8-24-04 wk 54 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 20,000. 2 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir, it went up a little 3 over 20,000 last year. This year, we're -- we're right on 4 the edge of looking at what we -- we were last year, and it 5 just -- we just seem to -- our referral rates have gone up 6 as far as the kids. The number of kids that we have to deal 7 with each year has increased by about -- from last year to 8 this year, we're going to be at about -- about a 5 to 9 7 percent increase as far as the number of kids we're having 10 to deal with. And, for some reason, we're having to detain 11 more of those kids; we're getting a lot more severe criminal 12 offenses that we're having to detain kids for a longer 13 period of time, to make determinations of whether or not we 14 feel and the Judge feels -- or the County Judge -- or the 15 Juvenile Judge feels that, at that point, whether or not 16 that child can be successfully released back into the 17 community based on his needs and based on the needs of the 18 community. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How much -- that's you, 20 right? I mean -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: That's me. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Is the -- as I 23 recall, last year your feeling was that -- I guess you were 24 more pro-incarceration, and were more -- or I guess it was a 25 different -- I guess you weren't -- I know we increased your 8-24-04 wk 55 1 budget. You had some reason that you wanted to, I guess, be 2 harsher, possibly to try to get them to deter repeat 3 offenses and things of that nature. Or did I dream that? 4 'Cause you're looking at me like I'm -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Like it's the first time I've 6 heard it? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, 'cause it doesn't sound 9 familiar. I -- the alternate housing that we had, '02-'03 10 actual was shown here at a hundred -- almost $169,000. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So it came down? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. I don't know that I 13 have a -- a hardline stance or a not so hardline stance. It 14 depends solely on -- on the particular case. We've had a 15 rash of cases where there were a number of serious 16 felony-type offenses, and I've just got to take what comes. 17 You don't have much control over it. I do know that the 18 numbers are generally up. And if you saw the total numbers 19 that he deals with, it would scare you to death, because 20 when it comes to a lot of the medical and diagnostic, 21 there's a lot of state funds that come in, a lot of the 22 placement funds that come in. He's got, what, three -- 23 three or four different sources of funds outside of the Kerr 24 County budget now, I believe. 25 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir. We have our state 8-24-04 wk 56 1 Community Corrections budget. We have our state -- State 2 Aid budget. We also have our Title IV-E money that we 3 receive, and we also have Level 5 funding that we receive 4 and small-county diversionary funding we receive. 5 Small-county diversionary funding and the Level 5 funding, 6 the kids have to meet a certain criteria to -- to be able to 7 access those funds, and that was the 89,000 that I was 8 talking about last year. Those -- that was the money that 9 we got from the small-county diversionary, Level 5 funding. 10 Those are diversionary funds to keep kids from going to the 11 Texas Youth Commission. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are those dedicated 13 funds, or can they be used for just general purposes? 14 MR. STANTON: No, sir, they have to be used 15 for residential placements, alternate -- some type of 16 alternative from T.Y.C. Our -- our Title IV-E funding, 17 which is something new we just started this past year, 18 that -- right now, we've got $37,000 in that account. That 19 money we can use for non-secure residential treatment. 20 We're also using it to do -- we're using that money to do a 21 lot of our preventive -- preventive programs, along with our 22 parenting education programs, our Transitional Living 23 Program, and different things like that. We use that money 24 to pay for our Probation Assisting Education teachers, that 25 we -- now we've had to employ three Probation Assisting 8-24-04 wk 57 1 Education teachers because of the number of kids that we're 2 dealing with. Tonight, if you stick around after 5 o'clock 3 and come downstairs, hopefully you'll see about 20 to 25 4 kids down there in tutorial services this afternoon. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: The point I was trying to 6 make, Commissioner, was that there's a lot of numbers that 7 go into what he does that you don't see there, and there's 8 some pretty significant numbers. So -- but it -- it 9 fluctuates, and you just got to take what comes. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Judge, what I think 11 gives rise to the question, for the last year and a half, 12 these costs have been a whole lot more than they were the 13 previous four years, and is it just coincidental that 14 there's a different judge that's ordering this alternate 15 housing, or is it attributed to increases in the number of 16 children we have to take care of? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: I think he could give you a 18 better answer to that than I could, 'cause he's been there 19 through both. 20 MR. STANTON: I believe -- I don't think it 21 has anything particularly to do with the Judge. I believe 22 that it's more of the severe offenses that we're having to 23 deal with. And the -- the one thing that I've noticed this 24 past year is that we're -- we're dealing with a lot of kids 25 that have multiple, multiple referrals. I mean, we're 8-24-04 wk 58 1 dealing with kids that have been referred to our department 2 on the verge of six to ten times for felony offenses, and 3 we're having to get to the point where it started. If you 4 -- if you want to get to county judges, it started with the 5 original -- Judge Henneke when they first got referred, and 6 now we're having to deal with them for the fifth or sixth 7 time, and it just happens to be that Judge Tinley's the 8 judge at this point. And, at this point, we're having to 9 look for different solutions for these kids. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Kevin, there's just 12 one line I'm just curious about, 553, Contract Services. 13 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You had it at 10,000, 15 and the Judge is cutting it to 2,500. Is there a reason, 16 and what's that all about? 17 MR. STANTON: From my understanding -- and 18 Tommy might be able to help me with this one. From my 19 understanding, that money was money that was originally in 20 the county budget. Not in my county budget, but in the 21 county budget that was contracted to give to Big Brothers 22 and Big Sisters. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Got you. 24 MR. STANTON: So -- and so they've moved it 25 back out of my budget and put it back in the County's. 8-24-04 wk 59 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? I like your 2 tie. 3 MR. STANTON: Thank you, sir. Thank you. 4 Thank y'all very much. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thanks, Kevin. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Adult Probation. That one's 8 pretty straightforward. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that 216th only? 10 MR. HOLLIMON: Yes, sir. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, that's the only one that 12 is administered through here. Page 55. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 65? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: 55. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 55. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Pretty clean. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Here, again, Howard has 18 a whole lot of things in addition to what you see here that 19 goes through his office. If they saw all the numbers, it 20 would probably scare them to death, wouldn't it, Howard? 21 MR. HOLLIMON: Yes, sir. My total budget's 22 $1.6 million. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How much? 24 MR. HOLLIMON: $1.6 million. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Whew, that would 8-24-04 wk 60 1 scare me to death. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: You got any questions for him 3 on the 52,000? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, I like the 5 52,000. 6 MR. HOLLIMON: Yeah. Actually, the -- the 7 budget, gentlemen, for me to spend is $42,640. There's 8 10,000 in there that's actually something that Tommy 9 Tomlinson will have to explain to you. It's a bookkeeping 10 thing, but that is money that I pay the County. That's 11 money that we have a contract for a drug offender program, 12 and it's here in the budget, but that's money that I pay 13 Kerr County, that $10,000. So, what I'm asking for is 14 $42,640, which is up a total of $300 from last year, for 15 which I apologize. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: The equipment -- I think I cut 17 your equipment, didn't I? Looks like it. 18 MR. HOLLIMON: Pardon me, sir? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Looks like I cut your 20 equipment request. 21 MR. HOLLIMON: Well, the year-to-date 22 expenditures is zero, and next year at this time it will 23 still be zero. I put in $500 because I'm required by the 24 State to seek financial aid from the County in buying 25 furniture, this type of thing, and I always finagle around, 8-24-04 wk 61 1 find some other way to do it. So, I put $500 in there, and 2 I have no intention of spending it. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: I wasn't going to let you, 4 apparently, at least not but half of it. 5 MR. HOLLIMON: Right. But -- 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Any questions? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: None I wish to ask. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. 10 MR. TOMLINSON: That $10,000, there's an 11 offsetting revenue. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, it's a wash. 13 MR. TOMLINSON: We -- the County actually has 14 a contract with -- with the instructors on this D.O.E. 15 program, and basically, the program is paid for by the 16 students. 17 MR. HOLLIMON: Well, actually, I pay the 18 County, and then the students have to pay to attend the 19 program, and that's actually a profit for Kerr County. 20 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. 21 MR. HOLLIMON: So, you break even on 22 furnishing the program and make a few hundred dollars 23 profit. I don't know what the profit is. 24 MR. TOMLINSON: It's not a large amount. 25 MR. HOLLIMON: It would be a couple thousand 8-24-04 wk 62 1 dollars, I would imagine. But, at any rate, it costs you 2 nothing to provide the program, because I reimburse the 3 County, and then you get to keep the tuition fee from the 4 students that take it. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sounds good to me. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Howard. I 7 appreciate you being here. 8 MR. HOLLIMON: Thank you very much. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's see if we can't go ahead 10 and get the Health and Emergency Services and Collections 11 out of the way quickly, and then we'll take a little break. 12 The Health and Emergency services -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 60. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that where you are, 60? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's going in the 18 right direction. Looks like we left some things out. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Now, there's a -- okay. The 20 First Responder budget that you see there, there's a 21 separate breakdown on that. I don't know where y'all -- I 22 don't think y'all probably all got that. There's -- it 23 appears to me that it's less than half of what it's been 24 previously. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's that number. 8-24-04 wk 63 1 Don't we have to add the coordinator back in? 501? Don't 2 we have to -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Who's the 4 coordinator? That falls under Ray Holloway, right? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, it's -- I don't 6 remember the guy's name. 7 MS. MITCHELL: Maloney. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. He was here yesterday. 9 MR. TOMLINSON: Eric Maloney. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Eric Maloney. Yes, we 11 pay -- this is half of his salary. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So we should have 96 -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I don't know. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: City hasn't told us, 15 right, Bill? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: City hasn't told us. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's the same as the 18 EMS contract, because the City hasn't told us either. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't know -- you 20 answered the question I was about to ask. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, just for the Court's 22 edification, when that question came up here about three 23 weeks ago, mas or menos, I did write a follow-up letter to 24 my earlier request for information relative to joint 25 City/County projects, and asked that they furnish us with 8-24-04 wk 64 1 that financial information data as soon as possible. As of 2 yet, I've not received a response. I don't guess anything 3 came in today, did it? 4 MS. MITCHELL: No. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do we have -- probably 6 ask Kathy -- contracts on these issues with the City? 7 MS. MITCHELL: Mm-hmm. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I suppose -- I mean, 9 maybe we'd get their attention if we send them a breach of 10 contract. I mean, I don't know how you get their -- how we 11 can get their attention, and we need these numbers and 12 they're not giving them to us, and we've asked them in 13 writing twice. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: May want to operate in the 15 driver's seat there. Rather than send them a breach of 16 contract notice, just don't send them any money. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, the problem there 18 is, you -- then we're hurting the -- the county citizens 19 potentially by -- I mean -- 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, until they get 21 another number, just plug in the old number. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, that's what I 23 would recommend. 'Cause the -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And then -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Your First Responder 8-24-04 wk 65 1 Coordinator is really and truly out there gathering up a -- 2 I was surprised that they had a First Responder at the Y.O. 3 Ranch, and that's exciting to me that there's someone in 4 there. But they're increasing those numbers across the 5 county and training them at nighttime for the first time and 6 getting them certified, and we're beginning to see really 7 how important the First Responder program is. It is huge. 8 It is very important, saving people's lives. So, I -- I 9 would hate to play with this too much. I would -- I'd plug 10 in exactly what's here, though. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 9675 for Coordinator. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And then EMS contract? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What does the EMS -- 15 19,000, what does that buy us? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: I think what that buys us is 17 our portion of the subsidy of -- of the difference between 18 the revenues and the costs to run the system. I don't know 19 that, but I just strongly suspect that to be true. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maybe some kind of 21 an administrative oversight charge. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, you've got the medical 23 director, but I'm thinking that's over in another -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, that's -- 25 JUDGE TINLEY: -- budget. 8-24-04 wk 66 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, isn't this -- 2 the health officer's salary, isn't that the medical 3 director? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't think so. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You don't? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I think that deals with the -- 7 the food inspection and things of that nature. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, maybe. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Whoa. Whoa. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I would think -- 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where does the health 12 director inspect -- do food inspections in the county? 13 MR. TOMLINSON: We don't pay him. We don't 14 pay for that. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: You don't think we pay him for 16 that? 17 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, the health 19 officer's salary is probably the medical director over at 20 the hospital? That's part of his salary for -- or our part 21 for him in this First Responder program? 22 MR. TOMLINSON: This doesn't have anything -- 23 this salary doesn't have anything to do with EMS. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Who gets it? Do we know? 25 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't -- I don't know who 8-24-04 wk 67 1 it is. I don't recall. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maybe if we delete it, 3 we'll find out who didn't get paid. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Delete that one. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What say ye, 6 Sheriff? 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I was just -- we 8 subsidize EMS? The County does? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the way it 10 looks. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 19,000 this year. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yet they bill us for 27 13 and 800 every time they go to the jail, too? Both? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They work on city 15 residents? 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, some of them are. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Wouldn't matter. The 19 jail's the one that pays -- the County's the one that pays 20 those ambulance costs. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I know. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We need to go pull 23 that contract up. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, that's what we need to 25 do. 8-24-04 wk 68 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Take a peek at it. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I've got it on my 3 desk if you want to look at it now. You want to -- 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Say it again? 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I have the contract 6 on my desk. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm kind of curious 8 as to what we're buying. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why don't we flag this 10 whole section and bring it back? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: When we get more 13 information where this is going. The City's obviously not 14 going to give us a budget. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Alford? Are you ready to 16 go on yours? 17 MR. ALFORD: Yes, sir. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What page are you on? 19 MR. ALFORD: First page. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What page are you in 21 my book? 22 MR. ALFORD: I give up. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: 15. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You give up? You're 25 not in my book, then. Good-bye. 8-24-04 wk 69 1 MR. ALFORD: Sounds cheap enough to me. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Looks like it did last 3 year. 4 MR. ALFORD: It was at first. It was pretty 5 much the same as it was until we -- 6 JUDGE TINLEY: There's some increased costs 7 in there due to when they discontinued the D.P.S. warrants 8 program, and some of those collections are now being -- from 9 J.P.'s are going over to the Collections Department. It 10 increased some of his admin. costs. I think he was -- 11 MR. ALFORD: I think I originally had, like, 12 a $300 increase. Now we've jumped up to $3,000. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Postage, telephone, and -- 14 MR. ALFORD: You have postage, office 15 supplies, search programs, and telephones. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Searches is the other one I 17 was looking at, yeah. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That we've actually 19 done some budget amendments on recently. 20 MR. ALFORD: Already, yes. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Because of the 22 program. 23 MR. ALFORD: And we'll have to -- I'm asking 24 for -- 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is there a 8-24-04 wk 70 1 correlation between credit history report, and nothing -- 2 zeroed out, and search programs, you know, in there for 3 2,200? 4 MR. ALFORD: Yes, sir. I probably ran three 5 or four credit records a year, and thousands of search 6 programs. So, this line item was already here, so I 7 thought, just for housekeeping purposes, put it where it 8 really goes -- majority of it goes. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just wanted to ask 10 you about the program itself. Are all four J.P.'s 11 participating now? 12 MR. ALFORD: No, sir. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are there three 14 participating now? 15 MR. ALFORD: Yes, sir. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And are you being able 17 to collect some of the moneys? 18 MR. ALFORD: We think so. The J.P.'s do not 19 have the tracking abilities that we have here at the 20 courthouse. It's mainly by word of mouth. "Are you getting 21 money?" "Yes, we are." "Is there any money coming in?" 22 "Yes." "Are you receiving the phone calls?" "Yes." But as 23 far as putting the dollar amount, there's just no way. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Which J.P. is not 25 participating? 8-24-04 wk 71 1 MR. ALFORD: Yours. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Why? 3 MR. ALFORD: Don't know, sir. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's the 5 year-to-date collections number? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: How's it compare against last 7 year, year-to-date? 8 MR. ALFORD: Gee, how did I know you were 9 going to ask that? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just did. 11 MR. ALFORD: Right now -- right now, as of 12 the '02-'03, which they're still paying on, we collected 13 $717,024. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's '02-'03? 15 MR. ALFORD: Yes, sir. Okay. As far as this 16 year, in County Court at Law, collected 232,000. Last year, 17 same date was 259,000, so we're about $30,000 down. We're 18 actually a few percentage points ahead, because we're 19 dealing with a whole lot less money, so you're getting a 20 bigger piece of a smaller pie. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How much do we still have 22 outstanding more than five years old? 23 MR. ALFORD: I don't have -- haven't run it. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are we still -- 25 MR. ALFORD: Well, I mean, what I can tell 8-24-04 wk 72 1 you is, like, for '01-'02 years, we should probably be 2 pretty much through with those in County Court at Law. What 3 we haven't collected is probably on warrants. Now, we 4 have -- we're looking for them. We're at a 90 5 percent collection rate on those. Now, then, when you open 6 up your District Court, that's a whole new can of worms. 7 Our collection rate in District Court right now is only 8 28 percent, where County Court at Law, we're around -- well, 9 90 percent, 96 percent, and 75 percent, just depending on 10 which year you play with. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, County Court at Law, 12 since we've created the department, we're basically -- after 13 a three or four-year period, we're getting up to 90 -- 14 MR. ALFORD: Yes, sir. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- or higher? 16 MR. ALFORD: Yes, sir. Probably as high as 17 we're going to get. I hate to say that. That's why, on 18 there, I had made one just for me. Now, I have a bunch of 19 these wrote down as still paying. DWI's, for example, they 20 can get as long as two years, whereas we shoot for 10 21 months, but that doesn't mean horseshit sometimes. There's 22 exceptions to the rule. So, I'm hoping -- like, the 23 96 percent, it's probably bottomed out. The 90 percent, I 24 foresee it going up. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can anything be done by 8-24-04 wk 73 1 your department to increase the collections in district 2 courts? 3 MR. ALFORD: No, sir, I don't believe so. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Without legislative action. 5 MR. ALFORD: Yes, sir. I believe Ms. Uecker 6 has been checking on it. I know she tried last year, year 7 before last. I believe she's working on it again with some 8 other district clerks. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Anybody else got anything for 10 Mr. Alford? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd like to go back 12 to -- one of the J.P's, J.P. 4, I mean, just doesn't like 13 the program? He doesn't like -- he's mad at D.P.S. or 14 doesn't like you or doesn't like me, or what -- what kind of 15 reason? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All the above. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All the above. Why 18 would someone -- a department not participate? I don't -- I 19 don't get it. 20 MR. ALFORD: I'm unsure of that. We 21 originally -- when we started this, when we talked that day 22 in Commissioners Court, we contacted all the J.P.'s 23 requesting warrant information, and we got it from three of 24 them. We finally gave up and got with the Sheriff's 25 Department and got their active J.P. 4 warrants out of their 8-24-04 wk 74 1 system, and we sent letters to those, which we kind of 2 contacted some people we shouldn't have. We had felons 3 contacting us wanting to know, you know, why are y'all 4 looking for us? Well, you know, they give us a number; we 5 find out it was felony cases, and we're like, "Oops." You 6 don't really like to talk to those people on the phone. We 7 kind of went overboard with them. I've asked since then. 8 Last answer I was given was that they will submit them to us 9 the same time they submit them to Omni. And we still 10 haven't seen anything, so I don't know if they haven't 11 submitted to Omni yet or -- I don't know. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How much does Omni 13 charge? 14 MR. ALFORD: We'll, I've researched that at 15 the Judge's discretion, and I believe they charge $6 plus 16 some other $30 deals, but nothing is due until the warrant 17 has been collected, is my understanding. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: No up-front costs? 19 MR. ALFORD: No up-front costs. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: That's your understanding? 21 MR. ALFORD: I have a copy of this; I'll let 22 you read it and see if we're on the same page, 'cause -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I thought the -- our idea 24 was to give them to you for 30 days before we gave them to 25 Omni. 8-24-04 wk 75 1 MR. ALFORD: Well, it was. That was our 2 original deal, and that's what -- what we're doing right 3 now, Commissioner Letz, is the J.P.'s -- the same time -- 4 and, Sheriff, I don't know if you were aware of this or not, 5 but the J.P.'s are issuing warrants; they're immediately 6 giving them to the Sheriff's Office, and they're immediately 7 giving them to us and the constables, so you have three 8 different entities trying to locate the same person at the 9 exact same time, and we felt like that was a waste of tax 10 dollars. Why should we all three be looking for the same 11 guy? So, what we're doing is, to kind of get in this 30-day 12 bracket, we're taking these warrants and putting them on the 13 shelf and waiting 30 days, 45 days, and then we're checking 14 on them, 'cause I just don't see why we should all be 15 looking for the same guy at the same time. Historically, 16 law enforcement uses the state database to come up with 17 information, driver's license, and we don't. We use private 18 industry to do it. 19 I talked to one of the constables. Whenever 20 the Sheriff's Officer gets warrants, they go run a driver's 21 license check on this guy, and I believe this is where 22 they're mailing the letters, unless they have a newer 23 address. The constable comes in right behind him; he mails 24 a letter either to that same address or new address on the 25 driver's license. So, basically, you have the Sheriff's 8-24-04 wk 76 1 Office and constable's office using the exact same address. 2 That doesn't do us any good, so we like to come in six 3 months -- 30 days later and run our programs, come up with a 4 totally different address. Then we're shipping out letters, 5 right? Kind of, sort of. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else for Mr. Alford? 7 Thank you, Mr. Alford. Why don't we -- why don't we stand 8 in recess for about 10 or 15 minutes. 9 (Recess taken from 3:12 p.m. to 3:25 p.m.) 10 - - - - - - - - - - 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay let's come back to order. 12 We'll resume our workshop on Fiscal Year '04-'05 budget 13 matters. The next one is Environmental Health. Page 61. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Afternoon, Miguel. 15 MR. ARREOLA: Hello. Good afternoon. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I thought we did this 17 yesterday. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Not this. There were a number 19 of places that I annualized some costs and came up with a 20 different figure than Mr. Arreola, so he might have some 21 dispute with some of the things I did relative to what he 22 requested. 23 MR. ARREOLA: Well, I'd like to talk about 24 postage. In our monthly reports, County Judge is right, we 25 didn't show the actual cost, the actual cost of postage, and 8-24-04 wk 77 1 that probably is partly my fault. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Actual cost of what, 3 Miguel? 4 MR. ARREOLA: Postage. Basically, stamps. 5 We're using -- we do a lot of mailing through the Clerk's 6 office, but we do also a lot of postage -- of postage 7 stamps, and a lot of it was bought with petty cash. Later, 8 I was told not to do that, and we fixed the problem already. 9 We sent memos to the Treasurer's department and the 10 Auditor's department, and it's been fixed, but some of that 11 cost didn't show on our monthly reports. The real cost that 12 we should have in there, it's an average of 75.52 per month. 13 And I have some handouts here for you. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Comes out to just over 900. 15 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, sir. So, I'd like to 16 request $1,000, is what I thought it was sufficient for a 17 year. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Your actual costs are running 19 about $76 a month. That comes up to over $900 for a year. 20 MR. ARREOLA: Uh-huh. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: So -- 22 MR. ARREOLA: I'd like to round it out, if 23 possible. If not, that number will be fine too. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: If we need to put a little 25 float on so we don't have a budget amendment, I don't have a 8-24-04 wk 78 1 problem with that. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, $1,000? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Then I think the next one is 6 uniforms and boots, you got a question about? 7 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, sir. The next one is 8 uniforms. I have some figures here that what -- what we 9 need to use or what we been paying. We getting billed an 10 average of 20 -- let's see, I got the number here -- $25 per 11 week right now, and we have only one -- one full set of 12 uniforms. And, myself, I'm just getting shirts. For next 13 year, I would like to have a full set also, so that cost 14 will be two full sets, with all the charges that the uniform 15 company give us, about $916. We're planning on having one 16 more employee in that department, if we go that way, and I 17 would like to provide shirts for that for about six 18 months -- or nine months, excuse me. Nine months for that. 19 I calculated the cost, about $171. The company does a 20 surcharge of 390 per year, so we got about $1,500, more or 21 less, in uniforms. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maybe we ought to talk 23 about the employee first, then. 24 MR. ARREOLA: Yes. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: That would seem appropriate. 8-24-04 wk 79 1 MR. ARREOLA: So, that will be the number 2 included in that wish list. If it's not, then we can reduce 3 the number. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. What's the plan 5 with the -- the Solid Waste portion in your department? 6 MR. ARREOLA: Okay. I have numbers of 7 activity we have. It's been busy; we have been doing a lot 8 of cleanup. We have done some big cases, but we need more 9 assistance. Mr. North's working real well. He's doing a 10 real good job two days a week. I believe the County needs 11 more time devoted to -- to cleanup. We have a real good 12 response from the citizens. I have very good complimentary 13 phone calls, letters. They're happy, but they need more. 14 They're calling and, you know, now there's here, now there's 15 over there, so we need to go and look at them. O.S.S.F., 16 it's -- it's fine, but if we devote more time for this, 17 O.S.S.F. might get hurt a little bit. That's why I'm 18 looking to get a part-time person to make the other three 19 days of Solid Waste. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why not get one full-time 21 person? 22 MR. ARREOLA: That be fine, too. Either way, 23 as long as we have five days a week person to work in Solid 24 Waste. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, if the decision 8-24-04 wk 80 1 of the Court is that we need that extra half person, I'd 2 rather have a full-time person than two part-time people. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I'd hate to see 4 us take a man off who's doing the job, and his health is 5 okay. There was some question about his health. 6 MR. ARREOLA: Yes. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I saw him today, and 8 he's out there on the job. As a matter of fact, he had two 9 messages on my voice mail when we took our break. I'd like 10 to see us add three more days. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just think -- I think 12 it's more efficient -- I mean, I understand you're 13 terminating a part-time employee, but I just think it's -- 14 you know, and we could offer him the full-time position. We 15 all know he won't take it. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He can't. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. But I just think 18 that it's -- we have to look at what is more efficient from 19 the County standpoint. I think it's more efficient to have 20 one person on the job rather than two part-time people. I 21 just think it's -- it makes more sense. 22 MR. ARREOLA: We're not paying any benefits 23 for this two-day employee; it's just basically salary. The 24 other person might get benefits; I'm not sure. If we get 25 the right person, they might get benefits. This person's 8-24-04 wk 81 1 not getting any benefits. It's just costing us a set amount 2 of salary. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the other person's 4 going to -- going to have to get benefits, 'cause it will be 5 24 hours. 6 MR. ARREOLA: Well, it will be 24 hours. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Unless it's a two-day 8 position. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm a two-day'er. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Two twos make -- you 12 know, make not a bad operation, and you're not going to have 13 the overrun. 14 MR. ARREOLA: Two part-times. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Don't have a lot of rollup 16 costs. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Miguel, we don't 18 provide any services for Ingram, do we? 19 MR. ARREOLA: For who? 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Ingram. The city of 21 Ingram. 22 MR. ARREOLA: No, sir, we don't. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Solid Waste or 24 O.S.S.F.? 25 MR. ARREOLA: No, sir, not yet. 8-24-04 wk 82 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is -- on the 2 personnel side, Miguel -- 3 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, sir? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- Inspector's 5 Salary, which is 8,640. That is Mr. North; is that correct? 6 MR. ARREOLA: That's what he's making right 7 now, yes, sir. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. And you're 9 asking now for something -- it looks like 14,000 more. What 10 is that? 11 MR. ARREOLA: That's based on a three days a 12 week work. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a three-day 14 position for Solid Waste? 15 MR. ARREOLA: Correct. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Frankly, I'd 17 like to see two pairs of two, and not have the overrun. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Inspectors? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Miguel, is there any 21 revenue associated with Solid Waste? 22 MR. ARREOLA: Not yet, sir. The plans are to 23 get some. We're getting to the point that we are actually 24 issuing citations; we're going to court. We're going to 25 have a big court next month that might bring some revenue. 8-24-04 wk 83 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I wouldn't -- I 2 would like for you to -- and Animal Control and the Sheriff 3 and constables, everybody else, to take a look at the -- at 4 the fee schedules that we have, that Commissioners Court has 5 authority to set, and see if we need to adjust those upward 6 to move closer toward a user-pays concept. 7 MR. ARREOLA: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And not just you 9 three. Other departments that collect fees, if there's -- 10 we have the flexibility to adjust those upward. And if they 11 haven't done that in a few years, inflation has taken it 12 over. We ought to be taking a look at it. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, the recommendation is 14 to hire another part-time person for two days a week? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's my 16 recommendation. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: I think that was your thought 18 too, wasn't it? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir, it is. But 20 I would like to know what the difference in the cost would 21 be for two people that are under 19 hours, as opposed to a 22 40-hour full-time employee with benefits. We would be 23 better off with the two part-timers, would we not? 24 Financially? 25 MS. NEMEC: Yes. 8-24-04 wk 84 1 MR. TOMLINSON: Depends on what you pay. I 2 mean, he's a law -- he's a certified law enforcement, so 3 you'd have to have -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Doesn't have to be. The 5 one we currently have is, but doesn't have to be. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, the original 7 grant said that we had to -- was geared toward -- 8 MR. ARREOLA: We're not on a grant no more. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I understand, 10 but originally it was geared toward law enforcement, but 11 that's out the window. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: With two part-time, 13 you wouldn't need another vehicle? 14 MR. ARREOLA: No, sir, we won't. We -- even 15 if we get a three-day person, we're okay with vehicles. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You can't give a 17 three-day, 'cause that's a full-time person. I mean, from a 18 benefits -- 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, you could do it 20 on the basis of six hours. Anything less than eight, you 21 could stretch it over three days. 22 MR. ARREOLA: Yeah. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Your key is what -- 24 MR. ARREOLA: The hours are the same. Yeah, 25 the hours are the same. 8-24-04 wk 85 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Under 19 hours a week? 2 MS. NEMEC: It's actually -- I believe what 3 the retirement book says is 960 hours annually -- or 900 4 hours annually. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: 960? 6 MS. NEMEC: It's either 960 or 900; I'd have 7 to doublecheck on that. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: 960 is 18 and a half. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 18 and a half hours a 10 week. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, under 19. 12 MS. NEMEC: So, yeah, that's probably where 13 we get that from. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, you could 15 schedule three six-hour days for a new person. 16 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, we can. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Get the job done. 18 MS. NEMEC: If they happen to go over the 19 19 hours or the 960 in a year, as long as -- as you did not 20 schedule it that way, you didn't budget that way, and 21 something happens within the year that they had to work a 22 week more or whatever, then we're okay. But you can't set 23 your budget on if they're going to work over that amount. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You have enough 25 support personnel to handle the inside work for -- 8-24-04 wk 86 1 MR. ARREOLA: I think so. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the hourly rate 4 that Mr. North is getting? 5 MR. ARREOLA: I have it right here. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is Eddie's salary in 7 here? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's this 8,649. 9 That's it. 10 MR. ARREOLA: He is about -- about $10 an 11 hour, is basically what it is, if I have the right figure 12 here. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm, pretty close. 14 MR. ARREOLA: About $10, 10.30, something 15 like that. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's 9,370 a year. 17 You've got 8,640 now, on an 18-hour basis. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Should be 16. 19 MR. ARREOLA: It's 16-hour. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm sorry, 16. Okay. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: 10.80 based upon 800 hours, 50 22 weeks a year. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it could be -- if you 24 go with 18 hours for three days for six hours a day, it'll 25 be a little bit more than Eddie. 8-24-04 wk 87 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. We're doing hourly 2 rate, which is somewhere around 10.50. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, what's that number 4 need to be, then? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why did you use 16 6 hours? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Two eight-hour days. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I thought -- 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Three six-hour days gives 11 you 18 hours. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's 180 times 50 13 weeks? 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Does it make any 15 difference if he works 18 hours? Does it make any 16 difference? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He can work two nine-hour 18 days. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right, doesn't make 20 any difference. $9,000. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: A raise still, according to 22 what we -- the existing one's being paid somewhere around 23 10.50. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, so it would be -- 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 9,000 on top of the 8-24-04 wk 88 1 8,640. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Additional 9,000? 3 17,640? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Add -- plus nine in 5 here. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Then the clerk 7 position doesn't go up, correct? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what he said; 9 her position stayed the same, 36. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Unless there's a mandatory -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: There's going to be some 13 one-year increases there, aren't there? 14 MS. NEMEC: That should be included already 15 in the salary figures. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, that's a good 17 figure we got. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 56,621? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 56,691? Oh, 21, I'm 20 sorry. Wait a minute; he asked for 70 -- okay, I got it. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, that's what I'm having a 22 problem with. 70 -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's coming down. 24 While the Judge is looking, Miguel, tell me about Line 435, 25 Public Education. 8-24-04 wk 89 1 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, sir. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You plugged in about 3 6,400 bucks last year and spent zero. 4 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, sir. Haven't -- we're 5 about to start this program probably three weeks from now. 6 I kind of let it run a little bit to be able to do it at the 7 end of the year and run it with the next budget also, one 8 shot all together. What we plan on doing, it's an 9 informational video. I've already spoken with a local 10 person who does that -- that type of business to provide it 11 all around the county; put some -- part of that video in the 12 local TV, and also putting some information on brochures. 13 That's about to start in about three weeks, and whatever we 14 have in there, we're going to make copies of that video 15 and -- and use it also on the newspaper, but basically it's 16 going to be -- the main thing is going to be the video. 17 What we want to do in there is explain to the community what 18 we do, why we are here, and what the purpose of us doing 19 this regular maintenance on their septic system. We're 20 going to attach also -- solid waste is going to be -- the 21 whole department's included in there. It's going to be a 22 live, recorded video, so it's going to be a good-quality 23 product, and we plan on using what we have there to do that. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Will that just be 25 limited to O.S.S.F., or also include solid waste? 8-24-04 wk 90 1 MR. ARREOLA: No, we're going to put solid 2 waste in there too. Household materials, illegal burning, 3 all that's going to be included. Informational. Just 4 informational for the county. So, that's going to be used, 5 and I haven't contacted U.G.R.A. yet to see if next year 6 they're going to give us also -- going to match the funds. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They matched it on this 8 year's? 9 MR. ARREOLA: They did. If they do next 10 year, then we're going to have a pretty good number. If 11 they don't, I'd like to have at least our part. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Nemec, for some reason, my 14 position schedule only has Mr. North on the Environmental 15 Health. I don't know whether I ended up with a blank page 16 or what the deal was. 17 MS. NEMEC: Okay. No, I updated it since you 18 got that one, and I gave it to the Auditor, so the figures 19 are included in his budget. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Have we taken out -- 21 MS. NEMEC: Here's a -- 22 JUDGE TINLEY: -- the additional part-time 23 individual of -- that 70,000 figure that was requested? So 24 that we're just dealing with the -- the two clerical people 25 that are there right now, plus any longevities that are due 8-24-04 wk 91 1 to them? 2 MS. NEMEC: Let me show you. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 4 MS. NEMEC: I don't keep track of their 5 part-time or anybody's part-time. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, that's what I'm wanting, 7 is to pull that out. 8 MS. NEMEC: This is what's in there, unless 9 -- Tommy was given that information, and he changed it, but 10 that's what I gave you. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: He's got all these three 12 people on board now? Sure looks like it, doesn't it? Okay. 13 MR. ARREOLA: Three people under the 105 14 should stay the same. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Is this additional? 16 MS. NEMEC: That's with the longevity. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Is this an additional copy? 18 MS. NEMEC: Oh, yes, you can have that one. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, thank you. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, the 70,000 is a good 21 number? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: 70,712. It includes the 23 longevities. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's for the three. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, yeah. 8-24-04 wk 92 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 70,712? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is a good number? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, it's right here. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: For both -- all new 6 employees are there. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Well, where 8 was the part-time rollup before? 9 MR. ARREOLA: It was on the 103. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Huh? 11 MR. ARREOLA: On 103, Inspector Salaries, 12 basically. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I see. It was in the 14 20,000 number that was requested. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, I see. Okay. 16 MR. ARREOLA: The top part. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. Now it's 18 17,640. Got you. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Started midyear. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now can we go back to 22 uniforms and boots? Spurs that jingle, jangle, jingle? 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Commissioner Letz, 24 is that -- on the manager's salary, is that the salary we 25 originally set this at? We set a salary; then we took some 8-24-04 wk 93 1 out for training. Does this restore that to what we 2 originally said? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I was hoping you 4 remembered that. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that what you 6 remember? 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't remember. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, I'm glad you 9 asked, 'cause I had it on my list to ask. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we did do that, 11 as I recall. We -- I'm not sure if Miguel was around when 12 we had those discussions, but I think that's correct. We 13 had a higher salary for you, and then put it in training, 14 which is 27 -- didn't we have $2,700 for you to get some 15 management training? 16 MR. ARREOLA: Something like -- no, it was 17 2,000. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 2,000? I think we took 19 that back. So, it would be right to put -- that 2,000 20 should go back into the manager's salary this year. And 21 that's an increase, but it's not -- I mean -- 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why don't we ask the 23 Judge where that 31,710 came from. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: You'll have to ask the -- ask 25 the Treasurer where that came from, because I didn't plug 8-24-04 wk 94 1 any numbers in. I'm looking at it right here, and it shows 2 some -- on the position schedule that the Treasurer just 3 gave me, that includes a November '04 one-year longevity, 4 which is going to be a -- a step. But, off the top of my 5 head, it looks to me like -- 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Wow, you're making 7 over a million dollars. Congratulations on the big raise. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Should be 714. So, I think 9 what happened is that the 2,000 got added back, and then the 10 700 got added back too. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: So I think the 31,710 restores 14 the 2,000, and gives you the step increase. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That's what it appears to me, 17 'cause the step increase would be about $715. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 19 MS. NEMEC: What I did with his salary -- and 20 I don't know if I did it right. What I did was I took his 21 last year's annual salary and figured 2 and a half percent 22 for his step longevity increase, and then took that amount 23 and only divided it by 11 months, because he only had -- in 24 October, he's still not here a year. He completes his year 25 in November. So, from -- for the first -- for October, the 8-24-04 wk 95 1 month of October, he's still going to be making the salary 2 that he's making now, and then from November on through 3 September, he's getting 2 and a half percent more. But that 4 could have been an adjusted salary, since he started in 5 November. I don't -- I don't know. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I think we should have 7 taken his -- his salary, restored the $2,000 that was taken 8 for training, and then computed the step there. Which would 9 be -- I get 31,333. 10 MS. NEMEC: And then 2 and a half percent on 11 top of that. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: No, that includes the 2 and a 13 half, but that's 2 and a half for the whole year. 14 MS. NEMEC: Oh, okay. Then I have to 15 adjust -- 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That's -- that's 2 and a half 17 for the whole year, so it's going to be, you know, 31,250 or 18 something. It's -- what I'm getting are just rough 19 calculations. If we restore the management dollars and then 20 give him his longevity -- and, of course, this is without 21 any COLA or anything. It's just the mandatory longevity. 22 MS. NEMEC: Okay. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: But we may want to take a look 24 at that. I'm going to put a circle around it and a question 25 mark so that can be properly calculated. 8-24-04 wk 96 1 MS. NEMEC: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Now we're back to boots, 3 Buster. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right. 5 MR. ARREOLA: You have more questions on the 6 uniforms? Basically, what I'm asking is 1,800, is what I 7 have on it, and 1,600 is what the recommended was. And my 8 figure came to -- what did I do with it? 1,500. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 1,500? 10 MR. ARREOLA: 1,500. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Uniforms and boots? 12 MR. ARREOLA: Uh-huh. Yes, sir. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that where we are? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 1,500, okay. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 16 MR. ARREOLA: Okay. The next one that we -- 17 that I would like to talk about is telephone. I got my 18 monthly charges right here. And we're doing -- it's also on 19 the form I gave you. I'll get that real quick. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Based on the figures he's 21 submitted, $130 a month, it rolls up to 1,560 a year. 22 MR. ARREOLA: Mm-hmm. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 1,560? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: I gave him what he asked for. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you asking for -- 8-24-04 wk 97 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Looks like he just asked for 2 too little. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I guess. 4 MR. ARREOLA: You got the figure there? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 1,426 is what -- 6 MR. ARREOLA: Should be 16 -- 1,600. Do you 7 have that? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. Calculates out to 9 about 1,600. 10 MR. ARREOLA: I found it. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We got it. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: 1,600 in 420, Telephone. 13 MR. ARREOLA: Yes. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 15 MR. ARREOLA: And the last one I have, 16 Capital Outlay, I was recommended to do 2,800. That's for a 17 computer and a program that we need, ArcView program 18 software. And I just checked with Shaun this morning, and 19 that price was good for this month only, so seems like we're 20 going to be buying it next month or after that, and it's 21 about $200 more, so I need about 3,000 instead of 28. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Which line item is 24 that? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 570, Capital -- second 8-24-04 wk 98 1 page. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, you want 3,000 3 instead of 2,800? 4 MR. ARREOLA: 3,000 instead of 2,800. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What's -- 6 JUDGE TINLEY: So, that's an increase in that 7 Capital Outlay item. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What's the story on 9 on-site council fees? 10 MR. ARREOLA: On-site -- oh, that's the fee 11 that we collect that we're supposed to turn back to the 12 State, and I think the Auditor made a special line for that. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's a mandatory 14 fee -- 15 MR. ARREOLA: Correct. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- of T.C.E.Q. or 17 something? 18 MR. ARREOLA: We have to collect for them. 19 (Whispered discussion off the record.) 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Miguel, did you -- 21 let's see. When you reported to us yesterday -- 22 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, sir? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- did you give us 24 the anticipated -- your revenue figure for the year? 25 MR. ARREOLA: No, not yesterday. I included 8-24-04 wk 99 1 it in my budget presentation, and I should have it somewhere 2 here. We calculate anywhere around $100,000 to be our 3 revenue. About $100,000 is what we -- we think it's going 4 to be next year on O.S.S.F. only. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Estimating 100,000? 6 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, sir. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, if we -- just 9 trying to put it in context, 100,000 revenue plus 64,000 10 that we would have been paying to U.G.R.A., shows that 11 compared to a budget that'll be somewhere around 195,000 or 12 so, I guess, we show that we need -- if we were going to 13 follow the user-pay concept, that we need to raise fees to 14 produce $30,000 in additional revenue. 15 MR. ARREOLA: Additional revenue. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's an 17 observation; that's not a mandate or expectation. It's just 18 something -- I think we ought to think about it. We need 19 to. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, that's why I 21 kind of wanted to bring that topic up. It ought to be a 22 self-sustaining department. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything further for 24 Mr. Arreola? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. 8-24-04 wk 100 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that all you got for us, 2 Miguel? 3 MR. ARREOLA: Well, I don't think my salary 4 got real clear to me, but I don't know if we need to talk 5 about that later or -- I'm not sure exactly how you 6 calculated that. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, what I did was add -- 8 and I just did a quick -- I was adding back the 2,000 that 9 was taken; I assume that's the figure -- different figure 10 that was taken for training purposes off of salary last 11 year. Add that back, and then on top of that, add the 12 appropriate longevity increase, in accordance with our 13 policy, whatever that turns out to be. That's what I expect 14 it to be. And then, if there's a COLA given to the 15 employees on top of that -- 16 MR. ARREOLA: I might be wrong, but I think 17 my salary right now is what we have on that sheet -- she 18 left already -- that she provided. And I think that should 19 be -- whatever you got, it should be added to that. But I 20 might be wrong. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We'll check that. 22 MR. ARREOLA: Yeah. Well, we'll need to talk 23 about it later. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Looks like the next one 8-24-04 wk 101 1 we've got is Animal Control. 2 MR. ARREOLA: Thank you. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Allen. Thank you, sir. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Page 63. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Boy, you're good. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, that's what I 7 do. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Looking ahead. 9 Looking ahead. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm going to be surprised if 11 this man has any beefs. 12 MR. ALLEN: Beefs? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 14 MR. ALLEN: Well, actually, we're doing -- 15 we're operating pretty good with what we got, but there's a 16 few things I'd like to have. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, maybe you should have 18 requested it, 'cause I think I gave you virtually everything 19 you requested. 20 MR. ALLEN: Well, under what I submitted, 21 there was a Capital Outlay item for a new computer, but 22 we've talked that over -- we can talk that over, and we can 23 probably make it another year with what we've got. All we 24 do is store information on it. With the new registration, 25 it's filling up, but I think we still got a ways to go 8-24-04 wk 102 1 before we have to have that. And then there was an item as 2 far as a -- under Operating Equipment, for a high-pressure 3 sprayer for help with cleaning the -- the kennels. We get a 4 lot of buildup on the walls from the oil from the dogs, and 5 you got to scrub, and it takes time to get all that off. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How much -- 7 JUDGE TINLEY: That's a $500 item. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's $500. That's in 9 here? 10 MR. ALLEN: Yeah, and we were talking about 11 that, 'cause I can get an electric-powered one instead of a 12 gas-powered, 'cause we're -- we'd be inside the building. 13 You don't want to run a gas-powered inside the building, and 14 that's really what we -- where we need cleaning done. I 15 guess you could run it outside, but you'd have to get some 16 extension hoses and all that. And -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, the electric ones 18 aren't very strong, are they? 19 MR. ALLEN: Yeah. Yeah, they -- Ken Hausman 20 makes a pretty nice -- it's not real heavy. We could tote 21 it around pretty easy. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: What kind of pressure? Does 23 it develop consistent pressure? 24 MR. ALLEN: It'll take the skin off your 25 fingers. 8-24-04 wk 103 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I bought one 200 2 p.s.i. here a few months ago, and first thing I learned is 3 you don't use it to -- to knock the grass off your bare 4 feet, 'cause it -- 5 MR. ALLEN: It will -- 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- it blows a hole 7 in the top of your foot. 8 MR. ALLEN: Yeah, they're pretty powerful. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Only do that but one 10 time. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It still hurts. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are we anticipating 13 any increase in the cost of services extended to the city of 14 Kerrville? 15 MR. ALLEN: I turned in the budget. I know I 16 gave y'all a copy of the City budget, which it did increase 17 somewhat. It was -- $76,344 is what we submitted to them 18 this year, and that was with the proposed raise. You know, 19 'cause we have to have it in by July 2nd, and we really 20 didn't know what was going on. But, I haven't heard any 21 grumbles back from them yet either, so -- 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's good. We 23 haven't heard anything at all. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: That contract expires at the 25 end of this coming budget year, September 30, '05. I 8-24-04 wk 104 1 believe we looked at it, and that's when it expired. 2 MR. ALLEN: Right. So, we need to probably 3 start renegotiating as soon as we finish up this year; find 4 out what our numbers are looking like or get something 5 rolling on that. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Marc, help us 7 remember to give proper notice next year that we want to -- 8 we may require 60 or 90 days notice. 9 MR. ALLEN: Right. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We don't want to be 11 late on that. 12 MR. ALLEN: I believe we do have to -- there 13 is a grace period there, but I'm not -- I'm not sure exactly 14 when it is. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, they're -- they pay 17 76 -- plus or minus, 76,000 of the 205,000 total. 18 MR. ALLEN: Right. What it comes out to is 19 40 percent of what it costs to house the animals from the 20 city, and then 40 percent of the actual animal control, 21 where we're going out to the city and picking up the 22 animals. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How much does Ingram pay? 24 MR. ALLEN: Ingram pays $250 a month, and 25 they're not allowed to bring us more than 11 dogs a month. 8-24-04 wk 105 1 But lately, they haven't been bringing us more than two or 2 three a month, so we're doing pretty good with Ingram. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Kind of interesting. 4 They have a -- you know more about this than I do. They 5 have an Animal Control vehicle. 6 MR. ALLEN: Right. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And they do some 8 animal control work. I don't -- can't be very much. 9 MR. ALLEN: All our contract was for was just 10 to house what animals they pick up, and they weren't allowed 11 to bring in more than 11. Now, if me and my crew went in 12 there, we could clean house and bring in probably 250, 300 13 real fast. But -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, they bring in -- 15 3,000 a year that we get from Ingram? 16 MR. ALLEN: Right. And we house maybe 40 or 17 50 animals a year at the most. I mean, that's not very 18 much. They don't bring us a whole lot. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Have they brought in 20 any feral chickens? 21 MR. ALLEN: Not lately. I'd probably get in 22 trouble for shooting them, but... One item I would like 23 to -- for the Court to consider is, under Animal Control 24 Officer, I have one officer that's been there for eight 25 years, and -- actually, I have two officers; one's at a -- 8-24-04 wk 106 1 let's see. I've got one that he's at a 15-2, and then this 2 one officer that's been there for eight years is a 15-3, and 3 she's letting me know how important it is that -- I mean, I 4 bring in a green officer right under her; she's got six 5 years more experience than he does, and she's not getting 6 paid a whole lot more than he is. And she is a very good 7 officer. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So what are you 9 asking for? 10 MR. ALLEN: I don't know if it would be right 11 to -- to try to reclassify her job as -- as to a senior 12 animal control officer. I'm fixing to lose this one 13 officer; he's going off to be a police officer, so I'm going 14 to bring in somebody else, and they'll come in as a 15-1. 15 But, you know, still, even just two grades above, if I can 16 get maybe an extra two or three steps on them, I can 17 probably make her happy. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You know, there's a -- 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you agree with 20 that? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- huge possibility 22 that your words will land in the newspaper, and she's going 23 to read them. 24 MR. ALLEN: That's okay. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay? 8-24-04 wk 107 1 MR. ALLEN: I've been working with her nine 2 years. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What a blast for his 4 employees. 5 MR. ALLEN: I got to fight for her. I think 6 she's worth the money. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: "Keep the little lady 8 happy." 9 MR. ALLEN: Well, she -- I think she's worthy 10 of it. I've got a whole stack of "atta-boys." Of course, 11 it only takes one "whoa, boy" to kill all those. She's a 12 good officer. She -- I've taught her how to think right. 13 I've got her trained. (Laughter.) 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What helped her is, she 15 don't follow one thing you do, Marc. 16 MR. ALLEN: Well, actually, that's the whole 17 idea, is just to get them to follow rules. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't think you 19 want that last quote in the paper. 20 MR. ALLEN: Well, I've got her trained. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What could you do 22 different? How could things be -- how could you operate 23 differently and not replace the officer that's going to 24 leave? 25 MR. ALLEN: Our service would suffer greatly. 8-24-04 wk 108 1 I know that e-mail I got from the Court about the other 2 counties we were compared to, we called all those counties 3 and all those cities, and they don't do half the service we 4 do. They either do Animal Control in the city and not the 5 county, or they don't have a registration program. There 6 was one city I think was real comparable to us. They 7 brought in the same amount of animals, but they only adopted 8 two a month. I don't know if our city's going to go for 9 that, honestly. I mean -- 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. That's -- 11 MR. ALLEN: And, actually, we're just -- we 12 provide a really good service, and it's like more -- more 13 people are catching on to what we do, and they're -- we're 14 working for them. We're out there. We're on the street, 15 were burning the gas, we're picking up the animals. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Barbara, the issue 17 we're dealing with is -- has got to do with an animal 18 control officer who's been there eight years or so and got a 19 lot of experience -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Commissioner, she's 21 not hearing you. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Ms. Treasurer? 23 MS. NEMEC: I'm sorry. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We're dealing with 25 an issue here of an animal control officer who's been in 8-24-04 wk 109 1 service in the same place for about eight years, and makes 2 only a little bit more than an inexperienced animal control 3 officer. Is there any process or precedent for 4 reclassifying that job upward to a senior animal control 5 officer or something like that? 6 MS. NEMEC: That could be done. They would 7 have to have a separate job description than what's in place 8 now. And if you do that, then you -- you can reclassify 9 that job description. And I think she's a 15 -- 10 MR. ALLEN: She's a 15-3. 11 MS. NEMEC: Maybe put that -- the only thing 12 is, because she is -- because she's been in that position 13 longer, if they're doing the same identical job, then you 14 don't reclassify the job description. She should have been 15 moved up through the merit process. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Marc, does she 17 perform any coordinating or supervising or administrative 18 functions that -- that a rookie officer wouldn't perform? 19 MR. ALLEN: Well, I know the rookie officer 20 doesn't like to take direction from her. But -- 21 (Laughter.) 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Just digging this 23 hole deeper and deeper. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It seems to -- the 25 simplest thing is to maybe give a two-step increase. 8-24-04 wk 110 1 MR. ALLEN: To me, that would be the simplest 2 step. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rewrite the job 4 description if you hire a new person, you know. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 6 MR. ALLEN: She does make decisions when I'm 7 gone, which isn't all that often. But recently -- I just 8 took eight days off, and she did a wonderful job; I came 9 back and there wasn't hardly any problems. So -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Things were better off than 11 when you left, huh? 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think that's 13 justification for a two-step increase. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: She's been around a long 15 time. 16 MS. NEMEC: Yeah. And I had discussed this 17 with Marc, and I told him I'd back him up on whatever, 18 'cause it does seem like that's not quite the way it should 19 be. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Two steps? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Plug that one in. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Two steps? 23 MR. ALLEN: That's all the gripes I have. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Sell those tags. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How much do you -- 8-24-04 wk 111 1 MR. ALLEN: We're doing it. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How much from 3 registrations? 4 MR. ALLEN: How much? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Revenue. 6 MR. ALLEN: Oh, that we brought in to-date? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, what are you 8 estimating for next year? 9 MR. ALLEN: I'm going to go out on a limb 10 here. I'm going to -- because we didn't start selling tags 11 until January 1st. So, really -- I mean, we didn't bring in 12 much revenue from October till January 1st. I'm going to go 13 out on a limb and say I can beat the 15,000 mark. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 15,000? 15 MR. ALLEN: Yeah. 'Cause my goal was to 16 go -- to beat the 10,000 mark and have 2,500 tags sold, and 17 I'm almost at 2,500. I already beat the 10,000 mark. So -- 18 and it's going to just get better; it can't get -- can't 19 decline. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, it looks like 21 that department's running real well. 22 MR. ALLEN: Well, that's something that I did 23 that's actually working. Doesn't make everybody happy, but 24 it's working. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 8-24-04 wk 112 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's good. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 3 MR. ALLEN: Okay. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. 5 MR. ALLEN: Thank you. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Walston. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Page 66. 8 (Discussion off the record.) 9 MR. WALSTON: How are y'all today? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good, Roy. 11 MR. WALSTON: And I hate to tell you that I 12 got off without the copy that you sent me that had your 13 recommendations on it. So -- 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Uh-huh. 15 MR. WALSTON: -- I'm winging it the best I 16 can. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't have your figures; 18 we'll use ours. How's that? 19 MR. WALSTON: I looked over it. It's close 20 enough. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I think probably the big item 22 that we need to talk to the Extension people about is there 23 was a requested Capital Outlay for a vehicle and all the 24 insurance and maintenance and fuel and everything that goes 25 with that, and it rolls up to about $30,000, if memory 8-24-04 wk 113 1 serves me correctly. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that the 28,5 that's 3 in the budget? 4 MR. WALSTON: 28,5, yeah. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How -- how -- on a 7 monthly basis, how would that compare to reimbursing you and 8 Laurinda, primarily? 9 MR. WALSTON: We don't -- actually, 10 Laurinda's the only one that gets reimbursed. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Laurinda's the only one 12 that does? 13 MR. WALSTON: Yeah, that's the M.C.S. 14 position. And, myself, the travel is all tied into our 15 salary. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You don't make much money 17 if you figure all your mileage. 18 MR. WALSTON: It's got pretty expensive here 19 the last couple months. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Who would primarily use 21 the vehicle? 22 MR. WALSTON: It's -- what we would do is, it 23 would be a county vehicle that -- between the three of us. 24 I mean, really, it would be for the two agents and, you 25 know, we would have to set up a prioritization where the 8-24-04 wk 114 1 agent or somebody that's going out of town or youth -- you 2 know, we'd have to set up a prioritization as to what it's 3 being used for, how we allocate it out. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Would -- how much is 5 Laurinda's travel? Do you have any -- a month? 6 MR. WALSTON: It's 2,500 a year, is what her 7 total yearly travel is, I believe. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: We've got a reimbursed travel 9 of 2,500, that's correct. 10 MR. WALSTON: That's it, yeah. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: And stock show travel of 2,500 13 also. 14 MR. WALSTON: Yeah. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I see it. 16 MR. WALSTON: Stock show's my travel, and 17 reimbursed is her travel. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yours is stock show? 19 MR. WALSTON: I do get reimbursed for stock 20 show travel. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, how would those 22 numbers fit in with the acquisition of an Extension Office 23 vehicle? 24 MR. WALSTON: The -- with the vehicle, we've 25 got -- we've got 26,000 for the actual vehicle. We allowed 8-24-04 wk 115 1 about $1,500 a year for the fuel, and 500 for maintenance 2 and 500 for inspection and insurance. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I guess my question, 4 Roy, is would these travel allowances remain, even if a 5 vehicle is acquired? 6 MR. WALSTON: That's -- that's the way I've 7 got it set up right now. With that fuel allotment and 8 those -- those additions, that other $2,500 or $2,000 -- 9 $2,500, that would be enough to where we could leave the 10 travel as-is. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: I didn't understand it, 12 either. 13 MR. WALSTON: Okay. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I think his question was, if 15 we do the 28,5, which includes a $1,500 fuel, insurance, et 16 cetera, do the two 2,500 travel items -- 17 MR. WALSTON: They stay the same. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Reimbursed, and they don't 19 evaporate? 20 MR. WALSTON: No. They would -- they would 21 be -- the 2,500 for travel reimbursement would go towards my 22 stock show, which I don't use any mileage on that; that's 23 strictly motels, restaurants. And then Laurinda's will be 24 the same way. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, I see. 8-24-04 wk 116 1 MR. WALSTON: Or we wouldn't be using 2 mileage. We're using -- actually using out-of-pocket 3 expenses. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. But right now, Ms. Boyd 5 takes some mileage reimbursement out of her Reimbursed 6 Travel? 7 MR. WALSTON: Yeah. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 9 MR. WALSTON: And that's why she runs out in 10 about June. And so that would basically provide us a -- 11 where we wouldn't have to use that. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What kind of vehicle? 13 MR. WALSTON: Suburban. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: A Suburban? 15 MR. WALSTON: We felt like that's something 16 that we can all use, and it can be something that can help 17 to haul -- haul people. And it'll be a three-quarter ton 18 Suburban, is what we got lined up. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the -- this is -- I 20 guess it's a -- y'all haul kids quite a bit? 21 MR. WALSTON: A good bit. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 23 MR. WALSTON: And we have to allow parents, 24 which -- you know, parents are part of the program, and we 25 want them to -- but sometimes it gets to be pretty tight 8-24-04 wk 117 1 trying to find enough room to get everybody in. And, like I 2 say, it's not -- it's not going to be used -- you know, the 3 other agents are still going to be using their own vehicles 4 in addition, so it's not, you know, 100 percent. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Who are the other 6 agents? 7 MR. WALSTON: F.C.S. and -- with all three 8 positions, we'll be using our other -- other vehicles in 9 addition to this one at some time or another, so we can't 10 all rely 100 percent on this vehicle. So, that's why, you 11 know, we still need some travel. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think I'd rather 13 increase the travel line items some and not do a vehicle, 14 personally. And I think that the travel -- and we've talked 15 about this for other people that use vehicles quite a bit. 16 That's -- that, to me, is a better way to go, because I just 17 see we're not getting rid of a whole lot of personal usage, 18 and I just think that I'd rather try to go that route. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: You're not solving the whole 20 problem by acquiring a vehicle. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: You're solving a piece of the 23 problem. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Might even create a 25 problem in terms of who's going to use it and when. 8-24-04 wk 118 1 MR. WALSTON: That's -- that's right. 2 That's -- I've -- I've got kind of -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If you had to 4 estimate, just on your own, how much out-of-pocket are you 5 at right now on official business travel? 6 MR. WALSTON: Depends on how much you 7 allocate on mileage. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, take the 9 standard rate; we get 35 cents a mile. 10 MR. WALSTON: Okay. I usually average 11 probably 1,200 miles a month just on mileage. So -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 400, 450. About 400 a 13 month. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's $5,000 worth 15 of travel out of your pocket. 5,000 bucks hasn't been 16 reimbursed? 17 MR. WALSTON: No, 5,000's not -- that's what 18 my total estimated is. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, 25 from that; 20 you're out 25. 21 MR. WALSTON: Yeah. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Approximately. I 23 agree, I'd like to take care of that. I don't want to see 24 you out of your pocket. I think I see us creating another 25 problem with a vehicle; allocation of its use. 8-24-04 wk 119 1 MR. WALSTON: And that's -- you know, I -- 2 with one vehicle, there is, and that's just something we'd 3 have to deal with, set up, and manage. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But instead of just 5 calling it "stock show travel," to me, I mean, it would be 6 better to reterm that "extension agent travel." 7 MR. WALSTON: I use it more than just -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Agent Travel. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Agent Travel, or maybe 10 even combine yours and Laurinda's into one. 11 MR. WALSTON: I'd rather keep it separate. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Keep it separate. She'll 13 use all your money. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you think she's 15 out-of-pocket about the same amount as you? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, if she runs out in 17 June -- 18 MR. WALSTON: Yeah. I mean -- 19 JUDGE TINLEY: -- that's about -- that's 20 about three-fourths. 21 MR. WALSTON: Yeah. And we're trying to 22 reduce some of her travel down. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Hers should be about -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 35. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: -- 33, 35. And you're trying 8-24-04 wk 120 1 to reduce it? 2 MR. WALSTON: We're trying to, you know, cut 3 back on as much of it as we can for stock shows. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How about 4,000 for agent 5 and 3,500 for reimbursed travel? That's not all the way 6 there, but it helps. 7 MR. WALSTON: That would help. I mean -- 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Take yours -- 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, if you're going to pare 10 him back, I think you need to pare hers back to at least 11 3,000. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 3,000, 4,000. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Four and three would probably 14 be more on parity, wouldn't it, Roy? I mean, you're -- 15 you're still absorbing a little; she'd still be absorbing a 16 little. 17 MR. WALSTON: Yeah. Yeah, that would be -- 18 that would be good. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: According to the way I 20 calculated it, she wouldn't be absorbing any out of hers. 21 Four and three -- 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't see it that 23 way. I mean -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: I mean, what you're saying -- 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't want to see 8-24-04 wk 121 1 one not absorbing it and the other -- I want to make them 2 whole, both of them. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, if you -- if you want to 5 make them both whole, if you're using accurate numbers 6 there, it's going to come out to about 5,000. About -- 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 3,500. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: -- 3,350. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, 45 and 33. 10 That work? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: So, we're going to do 45 and 12 33. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And delete the 28,5. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And delete the 28,5. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 16 MR. WALSTON: You can leave that in there. 17 (Laughter.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: That's just going to be Agent 19 Travel? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 21 MR. WALSTON: Did you say 44 and 33? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: 45 and 33. 23 MR. WALSTON: 45 and 33. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are extension agents' 25 salaries supplemented by A & M? 8-24-04 wk 122 1 MR. WALSTON: Yes, sir. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Just wanted to 3 be sure. 4 MR. WALSTON: Yes, sir. We couldn't do it 5 for that. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the reason I 7 asked. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else, Roy? 9 MR. WALSTON: The only thing that I didn't 10 get to put in the -- in the requested request, and this is 11 left up strictly to y'all, but our postage -- we've been cut 12 the past year -- two years ago, we got cut. This year our 13 postage -- we rely heavily on our postage getting the word 14 out to our clientele, and hopefully we can come up with a 15 little more money from the State. I mean, the State's the 16 one that cut our postage from their portion, and if y'all 17 can come up with $200 in postage, I know this year we 18 were -- we've been struggling since probably 1st of July in 19 having to try to move things around to make up that postage. 20 So, we're trying to utilize technology and e-mail and some 21 things like that to try to cut that cost as much as 22 possible, but if -- if y'all could help us out there -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Basically, your request 24 doesn't take into account what the State cut you on that 25 end? 8-24-04 wk 123 1 MR. WALSTON: Well, we're trying to make that 2 up. That's what we're -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, postage -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: So you want to go to 750 on 5 that? 6 MR. WALSTON: If y'all can. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. All right, sir. 8 Anything else, Roy? 9 MR. WALSTON: That's got it. I appreciate 10 it. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: We appreciate you coming in. 12 MR. WALSTON: Thank y'all. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. County Court? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: That's what I'm looking for. 15 You got it? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Page 12. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're awful quiet down 19 there. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: He knows these page 21 numbers. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I'm the page 23 finder. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The page guru. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, number guru. 8-24-04 wk 124 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge Brown. I see 2 him out there. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Judge Brown, do you want to 4 address these items, or do you want to let somebody that 5 knows what these figures represent? 6 JUDGE BROWN: You put me on the spot. I 7 think you're better off talking with the chief here. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I see. Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And you couldn't have 10 gotten away with that statement. Could not have gotten away 11 with that statement. 12 MS. HOLMES: We -- we don't have any problems 13 with any of the recommendations. The only thing that we 14 would -- we're requesting that's different is that The 15 Software Group is going to be making some changes in some of 16 our programs, and we're going to all be required to undergo 17 some training, and so we're asking for some additional 18 funding for our -- for my training on that software program. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that conferences? 20 Or -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You don't have training. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: No, I've got a note here, and 23 I -- we need to include a training -- Employee Training line 24 item. 25 MS. HOLMES: Mm-hmm, right. 8-24-04 wk 125 1 JUDGE TINLEY: In that budget. 2 MS. HOLMES: Yes. I talked to Jannett about 3 it, and she said that, you know, I would be welcome to join 4 whenever her office trains. I talked with Software Group, 5 and they said as many terminals as we can set up, they can 6 accommodate that many people. The more terminals, the 7 better. So -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 9 MS. HOLMES: -- they'll just let me sit in on 10 theirs. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: It's already in there. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: In there, 2,000. 14 MS. HOLMES: Okay. That's all we have. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I didn't realize I'd gotten 16 that to you. I picked that up off my sheet. Didn't you -- 17 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes, I did. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, good. 19 MS. HOLMES: And, you know, as far as our 20 court appointments, we go from year to year, you know. It's 21 hard to outguess it. We do the best we can. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Take a shot and hope 23 it's right. 24 MS. HOLMES: Right. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Thank you, ma'am. 8-24-04 wk 126 1 MS. HOLMES: Thank you. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Bye, Judge Brown. 3 JUDGE BROWN: Nice being with you. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Appreciate your input. 5 JUDGE BROWN: Sure enjoyed our little 6 get-together here. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Mr. Baldwin? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm not doing it. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Where do we go? 10 County-sponsored. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Make fun of me and see 12 where you end up. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Look up your own 14 pages. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 65. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. Looks 18 good. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Go to the next one -- 20 wait, I got a change. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Why don't we take it in order? 22 Commissioner Baldwin, do you have any thoughts on 23 County-sponsored? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Stand by. 25 MR. TOMLINSON: The Item 425 -- 8-24-04 wk 127 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 445? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: 25. I didn't have that 3 figure. 4 MR. TOMLINSON: 25. That -- that number is 5 the -- is the benefits for the two people on the task force, 6 so I'll have to calculate that. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 8 MR. TOMLINSON: And it'll be approximately 9 the same amount as it was last year. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Getting us back up to 11 the total -- last year's total? 12 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 14 MR. TOMLINSON: That's -- that's the amount 15 that we -- that the Court agrees on when they come in to ask 16 for the match. That's Kerr County's match, or part of the 17 match for the grant. That's for the grant. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. And the KCAD budget, 19 that number's already been determined. I just didn't have 20 it, so it's not plugged in here, but it's already been 21 determined. 22 MR. TOMLINSON: I didn't have it when the -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Their budget has been 24 approved. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 8-24-04 wk 128 1 MR. TOMLINSON: What is that? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, it's been 3 submitted. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, we -- Paula Rector 5 will have it. She'll have it. She's chairman. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 7 MR. TOMLINSON: I think, when I got your 8 copy, it wasn't -- maybe you didn't have it. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: No, it doesn't, because I 10 didn't have that information available. But the number is a 11 known number at this time. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: As Commissioner Letz said, I 14 think the best place to check on that will be with -- with 15 the Tax Assessor, because she's on the -- she's on the board 16 over there. But we've already -- they submitted their 17 budget, and it's been approved by the school district, and 18 that was the end of that. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's all I had. 20 (Laughter.) 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm cool. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 447, Water Development 23 can go to zero. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Wow. 8-24-04 wk 129 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Bring out the champagne. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We only do that every 3 three years. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You guys have done 5 your work, and you're -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, we'll come back in 7 probably three years. We're just very tight-fisted with 8 that money. We don't need it every year. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: What a guy. What a guy. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask a question. 11 Dietert Claim. Isn't that the Meals on Wheels program that 12 we help with? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the congregate 14 meals and meals that they take out. And -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good program. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Excellent program. 17 All of those services are good programs. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Four? 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: After one more year 20 of experience and wisdom, I continue to believe that county 21 government shouldn't be in the business of taking taxpayer 22 money away from taxpayers and giving it to social services. 23 And if -- if I choose to make contributions to those 24 services, I can deduct that from my federal income tax. And 25 my other point is that when I look at the number of agencies 8-24-04 wk 130 1 that are funded by -- by the United Way, there's three or 2 four, five times as many funded by them than are on here. 3 So the issue of funding services that shouldn't be funded by 4 taxpayer dollars, we put ourself in the position of picking 5 and choosing which of those social services will get funded, 6 so I would, again, suggest that we eliminate the money that 7 goes to Child Advocacy, Dietert Claim, K'Star, Crisis 8 Council, K-A-S-A, and that's -- that will reduce our 9 spending by $33,000, and give citizens the opportunity to 10 support those organizations if they choose to. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, the only comment 12 I have is, number one, it's C-A-S-A, not K-A-S-A. But the 13 way I understand it -- and this -- this is kind of what 14 cleared it up for me. I used to be where you are. And our 15 contribution is to help them match funds so they can go 16 after grants, and that's all it is. It's kind of a start-up 17 for them, or they -- they use our contribution to match 18 the -- for grants. So, that makes it a little more 19 palatable. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And I -- I'd add on 21 to what you're saying. And a lot of them perform services 22 for us. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And in the case of 25 Dietert, which the Commissioner brought up a while ago, 8-24-04 wk 131 1 these dollars for congregate meals and so forth help them 2 draw down their federal dollars; becomes their match for 3 federal funding, and there's a considerable amount of money 4 that comes in here as a result of that match. Considerable. 5 MR. TOMLINSON: I'd like to add something to 6 that. I know the -- part of these organizations the courts 7 use, because they -- in a judgment, sometimes they will -- 8 they will refer the person to these agencies. So we are, as 9 a county, using their services. As far as -- as the Dietert 10 Claim amount, there's a provision in the Constitution -- 11 state Constitution that provides that a county can -- can 12 use funds for that purpose. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: I can speak to the -- the 14 court's utilization. I know that CASA does home studies, 15 investigations in connection with -- in connection with some 16 juvenile cases that I do. They do them in connection with 17 -- they have cases referred from Judge Brown's court and the 18 District Courts upstairs in connection with family law 19 cases. CASA -- excuse me, K'Star, I don't know about the 20 other courts, but I know from a juvenile standpoint, we on 21 occasion use them for temporary placement for children, and 22 they don't charge us 83 bucks a day. So I can -- I can 23 answer as to those. The Crisis Council, I know they get 24 involved in some of the domestic violence programs. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, there's a couple 8-24-04 wk 132 1 of those organizations which I would say strong support for, 2 and I can give a couple examples. K'Star is the first one. 3 When we take calls with runaways or kids having problems at 4 home or whatever, we can put them right then, immediately, 5 in K'Star to give them a place to go, and it does not cost 6 our agency anything. And an example of -- I'll also say 7 this. When we run across a child that's a runaway -- and 8 one -- I can give you a good example; he ran away from Rhode 9 Island. We located him here. You know, you have to put him 10 somewhere. He doesn't fit into the criminal justice system. 11 You can't put him in juvenile detention; there's no crime as 12 far as Rhode Island. We can't -- and years ago we used to 13 have to have an officer in a little room with him, sit for 14 12, 15, 18 hours, whatever it took for the authorities to 15 get here from Rhode Island to pick him up. And now we can 16 place those kids over at K'Star, and that is a -- a large 17 savings to us. Crisis Council is excellent. We will 18 transport battered women and women having problems to the 19 Crisis Council to give them a place to stay, let them help 20 with counseling services. True, they do get some grant 21 money from AACOG and different areas. I sit on the CJAC 22 board, which we do -- Kids Advocacy Place is where we do 23 most of our forensic interviews of -- of child victims as 24 young as two years old for sexual assaults, and they provide 25 a room to do those interviews. They provide the equipment 8-24-04 wk 133 1 to have those professionally recorded, along with the tapes 2 that we use them for. That's the ones I can vouch for. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Some -- some -- 4 probably all of these provide some valuable services to the 5 community. My quarrel is with using taxpayer dollars to 6 fund them. And -- and two other points. One, I could make 7 the same argument for a lot of other agencies we don't fund, 8 Big Brothers/Big Sisters, Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, Hill 9 Country Youth Ranch, 3-H Youth Ranch, a lot of other groups 10 that provide valuable services. Buster's point about the 11 matching funds is a valid point. It's a reality that you 12 can't do anything about. It's -- it's another form of 13 unfunded mandate, where we're -- county and local 14 governments are blackmailed into putting this money up or 15 these agencies can't get funds available to them from the 16 feds and the state. I don't like it, but it's a reality, 17 and I guess you just have to learn to live with realities. 18 That's all I'm going to say about that. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. City/County operations. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Did we make you mad? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yep. Make fun of me, 22 buddy, you hurt my feelings. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: City/County. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Probably not in 25 here. 8-24-04 wk 134 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's no numbers on 2 them. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They should be all 4 blanks. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: 59. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: You have lost your spot. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I guess so. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Where's the data? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The data is in the 10 hands of the City Manager. Commissioner Letz and I probably 11 will get a little handle on the Item 450, the airport 12 operation, tomorrow. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me tell you how I came up 14 with that number, the 141. As y'all recall, we were 15 recently furnished some figures on allocations and so forth. 16 I used those figures as -- 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: -- whatever those rollup costs 19 were, and then took our half of it. That's how I got that. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's going to be 21 pretty close, Judge. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably pretty good. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The T-hangars can 24 come out. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That can be deleted. 8-24-04 wk 135 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That line can go 2 away, 465. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Recycle facility should not 4 cost us anything. We own it. They are leasing it from us. 5 They, last year, asked us to pay part of the cost for some 6 improvements to be made, when the lease clearly said that 7 any improvements they desire to make, they could make at 8 their sole cost. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And we left it that 10 way. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Absolutely. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: A deal's a deal. So, we're -- 14 the only one that I see that we've got to contend with is 15 the -- is the airport. And -- 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Library. Where is 17 it? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: That's on a separate one. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, Judge, what -- 20 why don't we plug in your 141,022, and send it over there to 21 them? Instead of us sitting around waiting on them to send 22 something, let's send something to them. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, under the new 24 board, which is going to meet for the first time Thursday -- 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Tomorrow. 8-24-04 wk 136 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tomorrow? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Tomorrow. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tomorrow, the board's 4 supposed to have a budget number, so we should -- we should 5 get a number there pretty quick from the Airport Board. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, this is just -- 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's pretty close. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can put 141 in there 9 and then adjust it, but it's better than leaving it zero. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's pretty good. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Page 82. See, 13 Buster? You could be replaced. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I guess. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Leave it the same? 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: This is another 17 operation that -- that I don't have much confidence pays 18 much attention to costs. I think they cost too much. I 19 don't know how to get at that, other than to try to put them 20 on a diet. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll tell you what, 22 Commissioner. I will gladly surrender my spot on that 23 Library Board to you. You can go after them. I've met -- 24 I'm not being cranky about this, seriously, 'cause I have 25 tried, you know, for four years running to get more 8-24-04 wk 137 1 detailed -- get behind the numbers, what I'm trying to say. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes, you have. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And -- 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And they stonewall 5 you. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- it ain't coming. 7 So, you know, I'd be happy to let you get over there and you 8 dig, too. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Next thing you'll 10 want to take Animal Control away from me. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: As soon as you make chief 12 dogcatcher, somebody gets in line for your job, huh? 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I am serious. I -- 14 I think they cost too much, and I don't have any data -- 15 intelligence to back that up. I just -- I see that they 16 tend to be big spenders on some things. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Big budget compared to a 18 lot of other -- I mean, if you look at the library versus 19 the airport, this is almost triple. It's hard to understand 20 why the library costs three times more than operating the 21 airport does. It's double -- low double, but either way... 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: In this information 23 age, the library's a -- I know it's heresy to say it, but -- 24 I love libraries. When I was young, I spent a lot of time 25 in libraries. Now I can get anything I want off the 8-24-04 wk 138 1 internet. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Actually, 3 Commissioner, it's actually four times the airport. This is 4 close to 400,000. That's one-half of the budget. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's an $800,000 7 budget, and the airport's two, or two and change, so yeah. 8 And I've talked to the Judge about it. Getting behind those 9 numbers has been just -- I think I could get into Fort Knox 10 easier. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, Commissioner Nicholson 12 has always been shown great respect by the City. Maybe we 13 ought to see if he would -- 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: -- want to take this task on. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move that we -- this 17 is really not a motion here. I move that we put the 387 in 18 there, and that's going to be a cap for three years. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I like the idea. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Think about that. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, you can't -- 22 how are you going to cap it for three years? Certainly 23 could be a cap for this year. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You could -- 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: To do that. 8-24-04 wk 139 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, maybe we put it at 2 350, and say, "You didn't give us a number; that's all 3 you're getting this year." 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's what I've got 5 here on my note. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't think it's 350 that 7 you got, though, is it? 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I said cut it 9 58,000, 15 percent. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And tell them we didn't 11 -- our budget's done, you know. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's it. Send it to 13 them. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I gave the Judge what 15 I had, and what I had was -- I guess was this number, but it 16 did not take into account year-ending fund balances, 17 whatever they might be. And they have operated this past 18 year, as they have in prior years, without a full complement 19 of employees, so there are fund balances. It doesn't 20 take -- the numbers that I gave the Judge didn't take into 21 account fees and fines, and we're supposed to get our 22 proportionate share of that as well, or credit to our -- to 23 our contribution that way as well. So -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think 350 sounds about 25 right. And -- 8-24-04 wk 140 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, I've written 350 2 in mine. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Sounds good to me. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And we can send this 5 over; say, "Okay, our budget's done." 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sorry. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I like it. Jon, you 8 are brilliant. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just want to go home. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: That's what we're going with? 12 350 is what -- 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 350. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: See where it takes 16 us. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the reason I mention 18 that is, 85 percent or a 15 percent decrease would be 19 329,103, if you want to have a scientific number rather than 20 a shot in the dark. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the 15 percent is 22 still a shot in the dark. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure it is. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let's take a 25 seat-of-the-pants number, 350, and see where it takes us. 8-24-04 wk 141 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: 15 percent, among 2 statisticians, is known as a just notable -- noticeable 3 difference. If you change -- you have to get to 15 percent 4 before you notice a difference in many things. So, that's 5 more than a shot in the dark. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I think we ought to go with 7 the 329,103. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Doesn't make any 9 difference. Let's put 329 -- can we round up to 330, 10 though? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're not going to 12 get any more flak for 329 than we'll get for 350. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Another thing is, if 14 we use odd numbers, it sounds like you know what you're 15 doing. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That's exactly right. Next 17 thing they'll be wanting to buy a copy of her transcript. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 329 what? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: 103. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, I like the 103. 21 Why don't we add 50 cents onto that, too? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Auditor says we deal in whole 23 dollars only. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: God, this is good 8-24-04 wk 142 1 stuff. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We got any more of 3 these? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're getting giddy, 5 is what's happening. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What else? 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Only ones I see. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How about fire? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Fire. Fire in the 11 well. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Fire in a crowded theater. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Fire is a couple pages 14 before that. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I saw it a while ago. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're going to get off 17 schedule? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: 72. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Page 72, Fire Protection. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: At least we're waiting 22 for KARFA to come back and tell us if -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I think the suggestion 24 was that we create a line item in there of 15,000 for -- 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 13,000. 8-24-04 wk 143 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the anticipation was 2 that it would -- it would go to 150 this year. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: That's what I understood 5 Mr. Feller to say. Isn't that what you understood, Dave? 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think we ought to 7 put it in for now, and they need to provide us with a little 8 more detail about how it's going to be used and how it's 9 going to be spent, and I'll try to get them together on 10 that. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd also like each fire 12 department to individually sign off that this is what they 13 really want. Because, I mean, I don't -- this is in lieu, 14 in my mind, of giving all of them an annual increase. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You want them all to 16 sign off on this? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That they -- that this is 18 what they want their money spent on this year, is on this 19 tower. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, that makes 21 sense. Because we're -- they could have had a raise 22 otherwise. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: U.S. Forest Service grant 25 match, new line item, 15,000? 8-24-04 wk 144 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Commissioner Letz, 2 I -- the ones in the western part of the county, I'm pretty 3 sure -- I think would sign off on that. Do you have a feel 4 for the ones in the eastern and southern part? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I haven't talked to them 6 recently, but I -- 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I haven't talked to 8 Center Point or Elm Pass. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I can. I mean, I can 10 talk to them pretty easily. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understood the KARFA 12 president to say that they would. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, he thought they 14 would. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah, I know they've 16 talked about it, but I -- I wasn't in attendance. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not sure if it was 18 put to them in light of, Do you -- would you like this? 19 Yes. Would you like this instead of more money? Well, then 20 it may be -- 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: May be a different 22 answer. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: May not be yes. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I misunderstood him, 25 then. I thought they said yes to that question. 8-24-04 wk 145 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think he said he 2 thought they would. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, okay. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything else on 5 City/County? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We whipped through 7 that bugger real quick, didn't we? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Page 2. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Must be Commissioners 10 Court. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Page what? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Two. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Two. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Help me understand the 15 secretary salary numbers. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Because the estimated 17 actual, I'm guessing -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Had Thea. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- had Thea in there, and 20 she was at a higher grade. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, I thought the 22 original -- the current budget was Thea at the higher level. 23 Would that be correct? The current budget, when we plugged 24 that number in, the 29,402? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Correct. 8-24-04 wk 146 1 JUDGE TINLEY: The position schedule shows 2 her going to one-year longevity in April, which would -- I 3 guess for adding that portion of a year for the balance of 4 it, 27,639, according to position schedule. That sound 5 right? 6 MS. MITCHELL: I'm sorry? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. 8 MS. NEMEC: Yes. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes is the answer. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Say it again, now. 12 The annual -- 13 JUDGE TINLEY: The one-year longevity comes 14 into play April '05, so from that point on, she'd be going 15 to a 19-4. And, taking that into account, the Treasurer's 16 calculated that the total for next fiscal year would be 17 27,639. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 19 MS. MITCHELL: Okay, I'm confused. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 21 MS. MITCHELL: Because how did you come up -- 22 how did you come up with that amount? 23 MS. NEMEC: What I did was I took the salary 24 for 19-3 from October 1 through April 15th payroll, and 25 that's what you'll be getting paid from -- for the October 8-24-04 wk 147 1 -- from October 1 through April 15th. And then, for the end 2 of April, because the policy said it becomes effective the 3 following -- following the pay period of your anniversary 4 date, so therefore, the end of April through the end of 5 September, you'll be paid at a 19-4. 6 MS. MITCHELL: Okay. 7 MS. NEMEC: That's why, when you see the 8 salary amount under the salary column, for those that have 9 two step and grades, you can't tie that back into the 10 position schedule, 'cause I've had to go and -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 12 MS. NEMEC: -- figure it one way, and then 13 figure it the other for the remaining. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. It's a portion of a 15 year they're at one, and another portion of a year they're 16 at another step, so yeah, I understand that. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, if there are 18 those among us who might want to make some improvement to 19 this salary, how do we do that? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Probably just like we did 21 that -- that animal control officer, because of having 22 pretty good command of her job duties and job performance. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Which I would like to 25 see us all do this. 8-24-04 wk 148 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's why you have 2 this form. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd like to see each 4 one of us sit down with her and do this before we start 5 plugging in any kind of new numbers. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree with 7 Commissioner Baldwin. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, that's a come-back item. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are bonds -- is 355 12 sufficient for two Commissioners? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: I think so. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's your question? 15 MR. TOMLINSON: I think they were, like, $170 16 per person for a four-year bond. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Bonds, okay. Well, I 18 mean, I just can't remember what they are. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you going to deal 20 with this one? I've got it highlighted here. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What is it? Line 108? 22 Is that part-time? No, it wouldn't be, Judge, would it? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: That's -- that's in the event 24 she goes on vacation; we need somebody to fill in. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, that's that. 8-24-04 wk 149 1 That's good. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: You remember how we did that 3 last year, don't you? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: You took it on Monday, I took 6 on it Tuesday, Bill took it on Wednesday. Something like 7 that, wasn't it? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I think that's essentially 10 what we did, wasn't it? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, last year. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's county mileage? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: County mileage? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Out-of-county. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Out-of-county 17 mileage. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: That should read "out-of." 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Out of. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: County travel, that 22 35. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are you sure it's 35? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, it was 35. 25 What is it now? 8-24-04 wk 150 1 MS. MITCHELL: It's gone up to 36.5. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what I'm 3 getting from my association. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 36.5. Need to plug 5 it in. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I wish I was getting 7 that to drive back and forth to work. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I want to go back up 9 to 108, if we can, for a moment. Have we talked about 10 adding -- 'cause we talked about adding a part-time clerk on 11 a regular basis to assist in this office to take care of 12 the -- some of the extra responsibilities that are due to 13 the County Judge by these -- his other responsibilities. Do 14 you recall that discussion, Judge? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I remember Commissioner 16 Baldwin mentioning -- 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: -- some sort of a part-time 19 administrative assistant or something. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, a clerk. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I was thinking of 22 bringing it up under the County Judge's budget. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh. Oh, okay, fine. 24 That's fine. That's probably better yet. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just the way I was 8-24-04 wk 151 1 thinking. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I was hoping y'all had 3 forgotten all about that conversation. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think we need to 5 talk about it and see where we are in it, that's all. The 6 Judge is -- 7 JUDGE TINLEY: That's called, "Let him get 8 his hopes up, and then knock the props out from under him," 9 I think is what that's called. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The Judge is the one 11 that's going to have to do the talking. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We talked about Line 13 Item 500, Commissioner Letz, you and I, about putting a -- 14 changing that from county map to surveyor, and putting some 15 dollars there. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What does that mean? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: County survey. It's just 19 survey work that Commissioners Court comes across that needs 20 to be -- it's kind of related to Road and Bridge, but it's 21 for some of this -- like the stuff on Lane Valley right now. 22 Every year, we have things of -- someone comes and wants to 23 deed land back to the County; we need to do that survey 24 work. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I thought it might 8-24-04 wk 152 1 be something different. And I'm probably getting us off 2 subject a little bit. We don't pay the County Surveyor? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We don't pay him? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We don't pay him as a 6 regular -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He gets paid -- he bills 8 us hourly when he does work for the County. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Why does a person 10 take -- run for and accept that job? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, because he's 12 the official surveyor by -- of record. And, for example, 13 here just this week, his services were used by our outside 14 engineer on the sewer project for easements. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So it does bring him 16 some business? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, yeah. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Brings him business. He 19 bills us his rate, and we -- but we could hire another 20 surveyor under Professional Services and do the same work 21 for whatever -- the same line item. We don't have to use 22 the County Surveyor. We just tend to, because that way -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- we're using the County 25 Surveyor. 8-24-04 wk 153 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: My real question is, 2 are we taking advantage of him or not treating him fairly? 3 And I don't -- I'm not suggesting we are. I just didn't 4 know the answer to it. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We haven't treated 6 him poorly. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. Moving on -- 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We just haven't 9 treated him -- 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm saying it is somebody 11 that we can call and ask a question, and he probably doesn't 12 charge us. He doesn't bill us all the time. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I like his work a 14 lot. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, what's the -- how 16 much money? County Survey? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 500. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What we talked about 19 was 5,000. Is 5,000 too much? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, not too much. He's 21 not that cheap. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't think it's 23 too much, either. I just did two easements -- contracted 24 with an engineer for two easements; it was 3,000. It's not 25 too cheap. 8-24-04 wk 154 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Where are we paying 2 for this now? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It comes out of -- either 4 we make Leonard find it somewhere, or we use Contingency. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, it's not really 6 a new cost; it's just getting it classified and identified. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, it is if we 8 want to do some things, right? It's -- aside from Road and 9 Bridge. And the one I'm just maybe making reference to is 10 paid for by the grant money, so -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But there's instances 12 also of some of the survey questions, where it may not be 13 technically Road and Bridge, and it's dedicated funds you 14 have to use for certain purposes. 5,000 is fine. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Change that from 16 County Map to County Surveyor? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, County Survey. 18 And -- surveyor, that's fine. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Survey? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't care. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: County survey work. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: County survey work. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We don't have any 24 computers? Are you not purchasing a computer as a capital 25 outlay item? Oh, you're a County Judge. 8-24-04 wk 155 1 JUDGE TINLEY: I think so. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What happens if one 3 of ours does blow during the year? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Comes out of that -- that 5 Contingency item in Nondepartmental. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Mine's been 7 thinking about it -- about blowing. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mine's older than yours. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: How do you tell? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You just try to work 11 on it; it gets slower and slower. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Page 1? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. No, no, no, no. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Nada, nada, nada, nada, nada. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, are you not 16 buying a computer in Capital Outlay? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: I took it out of there. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You didn't flunk the 19 course, did you? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: No, no, no, no. That was 21 before the District Clerk said that I might be in position 22 to pull one out of -- out of her jury -- her jury -- not 23 jury, but -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Law Library fund. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: -- Law Library. Because 8-24-04 wk 156 1 probably all that I'd use it for to any degree would be 2 research. That's all. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, do you want to talk 4 about your part-time thing? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I guess first question is, 7 where are we going to put somebody? 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Before that, what 9 would the person do? Give us some examples of how that -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Same thing that person right 11 over there is doing right now. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Tell us what you 13 would funnel off that the Judge funnels on you. 14 MS. MITCHELL: Actually, I think that we 15 could do without a part-time person. I think that it'll -- 16 it would work fine just with me. I mean, everything's been 17 working fine. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: She can handle it. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That takes care of 20 that. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I keep trying to find things 22 to keep her busy. She occasionally gets a little slack, so 23 I have to come up with something. (Laughter.) I tell her 24 that frequently. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 8-24-04 wk 157 1 JUDGE TINLEY: No, so far it's -- it's been 2 doing okay. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I know why they're coming 4 in. Elected officials' compensation is the last thing on 5 the list. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Is that why you're still 7 here too? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: We're just about on schedule 9 again. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You guys -- aren't 11 you three guys back there supposed to be catching bad men or 12 something -- bad guys? 13 (Discussion off the record.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. You need to take a 15 little break, Kathy? Yeah, okay, we're going to take about 16 a 10-minute break here. Then we'll come back and wind up. 17 (Recess taken from 5:47 p.m. to 5:58 p.m.) 18 - - - - - - - - - - 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We are back in session 20 now, budget workshop. We're down to elected officials' 21 compensation. I'm not sure how everybody wants to run with 22 this, but -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I -- I'll get 24 the ball rolling, if you want me to. Or do you just want to 25 go down -- start with the County Judge and start zeroing out 8-24-04 wk 158 1 until we get down to -- to mine? (Laughter.) 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's one line. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's one line. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: First let's go over what 5 we did last year. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Do you remember 7 how we did -- oh, what we did last year? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Because -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What we've done the 12 last two years is what I'd like to hear. 13 MS. NEMEC: Would you like me to -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're probably the only 15 one that knows. 16 MS. NEMEC: Okay. I gave each of you a copy 17 of this the other day, and I can explain exactly how to read 18 this. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 20 MS. NEMEC: On this, if you'll start with the 21 page that has 2000/2001 on it, -- 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 23 MS. NEMEC: -- make that your first page. 24 Right there, that was the salary that everybody was in the 25 2000/2001 budget. For instance, I'm just going to use the 8-24-04 wk 159 1 County Judge as an example and go on down the line, and 2 that's how everybody's will be figured. 2001/2000 -- 3 2000/2001, the salary was 32,528. $600 in travel for that 4 year. The cost-of-living came out to 813, which was a 2 and 5 a half percent cost-of-living. There was an increase in 6 2001/2002 budget for all elected officials, and those 7 numbers that you see down that column is the increase that 8 each elected official got for that budget year. You go down 9 to the next column which says Salary, 2001/2002. What I did 10 there was I included the increase plus the cost-of-living, 11 plus that was the year that we combined the -- that we 12 combined the travel into the salary, so that's where you see 13 that. Then we started doing the budget for 2002/2003. That 14 year, there weren't any elected officials that got 15 increases. We did get a 2 and a half percent 16 cost-of-living, which is reflected on that sheet. And so 17 the total, last column is what the salary was for 2002/2003 18 budget year. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 20 MS. NEMEC: You go to the next page, you 21 start off with the 2002/2003 budget salary. Then we added a 22 cost -- a 2 and a half percent cost-of-living. And why that 23 salary's on that -- on the Judge's, that's wrong. I should 24 have just put -- that's what the total came out to with the 25 cost-of-living, not what the cost-of-living was. I have 8-24-04 wk 160 1 less adjustments on there, because we did make some 2 adjustments to some proposed salaries at -- during that 3 budget year. And then the next column is proposed increases 4 for -- or were the increases for 2003/2004, which I believe 5 every elected official received an increase except for the 6 Judge and the Commissioners. And then, of course, County 7 Court at Law, because his salary is a certain percentage of 8 what the District Judges' salary is. So, the last column is 9 what everybody's salary is now. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, last year all the 11 elected officials, excluding Commissioners Court, got a 12 $1,000 increase. Correct so far? 13 MS. NEMEC: Some got a little bit more. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I know. 15 MS. NEMEC: But, basically. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Basically 1,000. 17 MS. NEMEC: Right. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And the Sheriff got a 19 $4,703 increase. 20 MS. NEMEC: That's correct. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. What was the 22 deal with the Constable 4? 23 MS. NEMEC: Constable 4, we were wanting -- 24 we were wanting to bring him up to what the other constables 25 were making. 8-24-04 wk 161 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 2 MS. NEMEC: We did that during that year. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Excellent. Excellent. 4 MS. NEMEC: So, basically, 2001/2002 budget 5 year was the year -- the last time that every elected 6 official received an adjustment. And then 2002/2003, there 7 wasn't any adjustments. Last year, everyone received one, 8 excluding Commissioners Court. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: '01/'02. '01/'02 is 10 the last time it was across-the-board for elected officials? 11 MS. NEMEC: Right. That's correct. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One thing -- I think that 14 there are -- and I think Paula Rector was the one that 15 brought this up first, but there are some elected officials 16 that use their -- well, no elected officials get a 17 reimbursement for travel inside the county, but a number of 18 elected officials use their vehicles, and there used to be a 19 separate travel line item; it was combined in the salary. I 20 think those that do drive a fair amount probably should get 21 some sort of adjustment from the gasoline standpoint. And 22 I'm talking maybe $300, something like that, not a huge 23 amount. But I think that there is an adjustment there, 24 because those people are -- are having to spend more. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You're speaking of 8-24-04 wk 162 1 adjustment in base salary? Not reinstatement of -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, we rolled 4 $1,200 in -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- for us, 600 for 7 others. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think that there's 9 just -- I think there's just, you know, a -- the cost of 10 travel has gone up, as reflected by the state mileage rate. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No question about it. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think those that use 13 personal vehicles should get adjustments, and maybe come up 14 with one number that fits all, or maybe you figure out two 15 categories based on, you know, drive a lot, drive a little. 16 But I just think this should be -- it's something that 17 should be adjusted, because I think our -- my view has been 18 people shouldn't go backwards. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I -- I think your 20 thinking is good, and I would support doing that, so long as 21 we rolled it into base salary, but I don't think we ought to 22 go back to trying to reinstate the travel allowance. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, I don't want to have 24 a travel allowance again. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Part of our base, for 8-24-04 wk 163 1 example, was this $1,200. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That was a long time ago. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, was established 4 long ago. So you're really saying, in effect, increase that 5 particular segment of the salary? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Whatever. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I know -- Sheriff? 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Not mine on travel. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I know. But while we 11 have elected officials here, if anyone wants to make a 12 compelling argument why they want a salary increase, now is 13 probably a good time. Or later. I mean -- 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You're speaking of 15 an increase in addition to the COLA? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, you've heard 19 from the Sheriff and you've heard from me on the reasons 20 to -- to get parity -- equity between us and the City on law 21 enforcement salaries, which would -- which would require a 22 substantial increase for the Sheriff, on the order of 23 $28,000. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The whole thing that 25 you had put together, I think, was something like 236,000 8-24-04 wk 164 1 bucks, something like that. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's probably 3 about right, I think. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My view -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Does that include the rollup? 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My view is that I'm not 9 that concerned about parity. I am concerned about number 10 two people in any department making more than the head of 11 that department. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Elected official. And 14 I'm not -- and the Sheriff very well may be in that 15 situation again. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I will be in that 17 situation by a little over $3,000 if everything that we 18 proposed had gone through. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Effective October? 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Effective October 1. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: New budget year? 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. I was in that 23 position the first two years. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think that should 25 be corrected. I just don't think that, you know, it is 8-24-04 wk 165 1 right for Rusty or Barbara or anyone to have their chief 2 deputy make more than they do. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, and I handed you 4 this 'cause I do -- and I haven't tried to ask -- y'all have 5 adjusted my salary a couple times, like last year, to keep 6 that from occurring year-to-year, but really, I think that 7 the position of the Sheriff is drastically underfunded when 8 you compare to what other department heads and what other 9 officials make in this county, and that's the ones I have to 10 be concerned with. I don't -- you know, if you really want 11 the keep qualified people running for that position and in 12 that position, and with the responsibility that the Sheriff 13 has -- I know the Judge mentioned one; Howard Hollimon stood 14 up here. There's so many other things that go into his 15 stuff, and Howard said he runs 1.5 million -- 16 JUDGE TINLEY: 1.6, I think he said. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: $1.6 million budget. 18 The Sheriff, regardless of who it is right now, is going to 19 be running a 6.1 to 6.5 million dollar budget, and I think 20 that's a very large part of the County's budget, and a very 21 large responsibility on the person that's in that position 22 to control that budget and take care of it. The Sheriff is 23 also the one on the lawsuits and everything else that come 24 down, and I think you need to be able to get good, qualified 25 people. When you have the type of parity in this county 8-24-04 wk 166 1 alone, I -- I truly think it's not fair to the position. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that the -- 3 there's an argument that can be made for many elected 4 positions in that area. I think that there -- you know, and 5 it's just the nature, to me, of County government or elected 6 government. I mean, I -- I think that if you take Barbara 7 or any of these people that run these departments that 8 handle a lot of money and financials, they're equivalent to 9 vice presidents or vice presidents of banks. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The salaries -- as you 11 can tell, the salaries I gave you is not private world. I 12 wouldn't even try to compare law enforcement/government to 13 the private world. I don't think any of that would ever 14 work for any of us, but I do think it needs to be -- to be 15 looked at in the government world. And the thing is true -- 16 there's an old history along with sheriff's departments that 17 sheriffs just never made much; Sheriff's Department never 18 made much. But I think this county has got a Sheriff's 19 Department that's extremely professional, extremely 20 dedicated group of people. We're cutting down turnover, and 21 if you don't take care of -- of that department and keep it 22 up to where it -- my salary, unfortunately -- or the 23 sheriff's salary doesn't raise and get up there a little bit 24 better, it's kind of like you're holding down the whole 25 department. Nobody else can. You look at just police 8-24-04 wk 167 1 department lieutenants on there or anything else, and I 2 think it needs a -- a drastic jump to take care of this -- 3 of the problem in this county along with sheriffs. When you 4 look at just those basic responsibilities, you know, the 5 Juvenile Detention person running the jail over there -- 6 running the Juvenile Detention Center, you know, $15,000 7 above what the Sheriff makes, I think -- 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's not a 9 budget -- or a salary that we can set, Rusty. That's out of 10 our control. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It is out of four of 12 y'all's control. It's -- I know the Judge sits on the 13 Juvenile Board along with the District Judges. I understand 14 that, and I don't want to confuse that. But there are -- 15 you know, your -- your Road and Bridge Administrator, that's 16 10,000 -- 9,000-something dollar difference, and that is a 17 budget y'all control. There's just a lot of things in there 18 that I think this county needs to -- to -- and I know last 19 year, y'all did try and take care of a lot of the officers, 20 and took about half of what was recommended last year in the 21 Sheriff's Department. I'd like to see the second half done. 22 But on elected officials, I'll leave this with you and just 23 ask that -- that Commissioner Nicholson's request be 24 considered. I wouldn't quite go that high, but I wouldn't 25 go much lower than that, either. I would -- I think about 8-24-04 wk 168 1 25 of that would be more accurate. I'm not saying get us 2 totally equal, but I think it does need to be taken 3 seriously. And about 10, 15 years ago, that was offered to 4 the Sheriff in this county; a one-time jump then of 15,000 5 was turned down because it was an election year. It's a 6 hard time for sheriffs to look at it, doesn't go across 7 well. But each year it's just gotten worse and worse, and I 8 think it seriously needs to be looked at. I'd appreciate 9 y'all's consideration on that. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How much -- how much 11 does the -- is the Sheriff's salary right now? 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That on there, Buster. 13 MS. NEMEC: $51,735. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: $51,735. And the 15 chief deputy? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 49,705. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 49? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: 705. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's before a COLA 21 for the ensuing year would be applied? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Correct. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, of course, COLA would, 25 at least in theory, apply to all elected officials too. 8-24-04 wk 169 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Then we also asked for 4 the $1,500 across the board for the officers. Well, that 5 really got out of whack, just to let you -- during that Nash 6 study. That did not take in elected officials; that took in 7 all the employees, and under that study it upped that chief 8 deputy salary so much, and elected officials didn't change 9 that year. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, it looks like 11 he's $2,000 below you. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: With 1,500 and a 13 3 percent cost-of-living, it would put him at -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What 1,500? 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's asked for. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I'm not dealing 17 with that. I'm dealing with where we are today. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's why I said that 19 when I presented that, Buster. I said if it went through. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't have -- 21 we're not operating on the same foundation here, I think. 22 What is wrong with a goal of creating equity, comparability 23 between the two law enforcement agencies in the county? Is 24 there any rationale for us paying so much less than the 25 City? Can they afford more, or they deserve more, or their 8-24-04 wk 170 1 performance is better? Or -- 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I'll give you my 3 theory on the thing, is -- is the way that -- the difference 4 between the way we fund things and the way the City funds 5 things. The City, for years, has used E.I.C. money, 6 Economic Development money, for things that should be in 7 their regular budget; i.e., the street right out here, 8 Jefferson Street. They did all those improvements, major 9 expense, out of E.I.C. money, so that frees up their regular 10 budget, and they can use their regular budget money. In -- 11 in my mind, that's how they do that. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Bought fire engines 13 and fire stations, too. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And frees up a lot of 15 money over there. We don't have that ability. Number one, 16 we don't break the law like that, but we don't have that 17 ability. We don't have the E.I.C. money to do those things. 18 I mean, that's the way I see it. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that's part of 20 it. I think the other part of it is that county government, 21 by law, has to have a lot more than city government does. 22 They have a staff over there. We have to have, you know, a 23 District Clerk and -- I mean, all the courts come under us, 24 jail. You know, there's a lot that comes under us that they 25 don't have to deal with. They don't have to fund a jail. 8-24-04 wk 171 1 We have to -- 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Tax Assessor. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tax Assessor. We have to 4 fund a jail. They don't fund anything there, and that's -- 5 that's half of the Sheriff's Department, basically, or close 6 to it. So I think there's a lot of difference. And you 7 start looking at employees, start looking at salaries, start 8 looking at taxes, and many feel like it's -- the county tax 9 rate's too high already. And to get in parity, you're going 10 to have to almost say, okay, we're going to pay the 11 Sheriff's Department like the police department, and then we 12 have to add the jail in on top of it. And then you just 13 can't -- the ends don't meet. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Is this -- does this 15 tend to counterbalance those arguments -- they sound 16 legitimate to me. It's good -- good arguments, that to pay 17 for their police department, they can tax 24,000 or so 18 population to pay for a police department. We can tax 19 45,000. Doesn't that argue that we ought to be able to 20 afford to pay our police department as well as they pay 21 theirs? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, if our rate was 23 the same as theirs, we'd have money coming out our ears. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the city rate? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Tax rate's twice -- 8-24-04 wk 172 1 twice ours -- more than twice ours. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is it really? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, yeah. Much 4 higher than our tax rate. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I never paid any 6 attention. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I thought somewhere 8 around 80 cents, isn't it, Barbara? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I thought 54 cents. It's 10 a bunch more than ours, anyway. Look at the -- 11 MS. NEMEC: Little higher than that. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Considerably more. 13 If you want to take ours up a quarter... (Laughter.) I 14 don't think anybody wants to do that. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But I think that we 16 have moved -- in the last few years, moved that way, and I 17 know it's way too slow for you and way too slow for Rusty, 18 and it's way too slow for me, but we have kind of moved in 19 that -- in that direction of -- and I don't -- I don't ever 20 see county government being in parity with city government 21 anywhere. But you can certainly keep chipping away at it, 22 keep trying. But we're dealing today with elected 23 officials' compensation, not Clay Barton. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you have some 25 recommendations? 8-24-04 wk 173 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just wanted to, you 2 know, make sure that the Sheriff is making more than his 3 chief deputy, and he is. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, the last time 5 elected officials got an increase was -- according to the 6 Treasurer, was, what, '01 -- '01-'02? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Last time all of them 8 did. A bunch of them did last year. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Last time everybody 10 got one across the board. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Last year they got -- 12 everybody got $1,000 generally, except for the Constable 4 13 and the Sheriff. And this Court did not take it. So, first 14 off, I think that we -- it's our turn. I think that this 15 Court should get a raise. And it would be the $1,000 just 16 like we gave everybody last year. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, at the least. 18 I also think other elected officials deserve a raise. I 19 don't think we can be -- I think it's -- it's not fair to be 20 selective in how you pass them out. We're singling out the 21 Sheriff because of special considerations that we're doing 22 something for the Sheriff, but we're going to pass up 23 so-and-so and so-and-so and so-and-so, and I think that's -- 24 selective increases is not -- is not good policy. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, what do you think? 8-24-04 wk 174 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, let me go to the issue 2 of J.P.'s, if I might. If you'll recall, last year I 3 initiated a program whereby the J.P.'s that did mental 4 health cases -- we created a separate funding vehicle for 5 them, and we did it by imposing a matter of costs on the 6 cases that they heard. And there were special orders 7 entered in each and every case appointing them as masters, 8 and assessing a cost for that. It's my belief that those 9 J.P.'s who hear those cases should receive those funds over 10 and above their regular salary, number one, because they're 11 not obligated to hear them under the law. They're hearing 12 them because they're taking a load off somebody else. And 13 it was done in such a manner that if the -- if the 14 percentages still hold, and I think they're fairly -- fairly 15 true, 80 percent of those costs are being paid by the other 16 counties. And that was the reason it was done that way, 17 because you could recover those costs, rather than Kerr 18 County paying those costs directly, 100 cents on the dollar. 19 So, the J.P.'s that are hearing those cases I think should 20 be entitled to receive those special master's fees. And I 21 think, under the law, they -- they may actually be entitled 22 to them without offset, so that would be one recommendation 23 that I would make. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Don't they do that? The 25 way the schedule -- J.P. 1 -- all the J.P.'s salaries are 33 8-24-04 wk 175 1 now; one's a little bit different. And the mental health 2 hearings are added on top of the salary for three of them. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: But those aren't -- those 4 aren't the fees that are assessed for the compensation of 5 those J.P.'s. 6 MR. TOMLINSON: You need to look at the 7 budget to see what -- 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Those aren't the -- those 10 aren't the fees that are assessed. 11 MR. TOMLINSON: The amount you see on the 12 position schedule is the total of both. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But on this -- this thing 15 that Barbara gave us, it has a salary that the County funds, 16 and then a mental health, and J.P.'s 2, 3, and 4 make $2,050 17 more than J.P. 1, who doesn't do the hearings. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: The special master fees that 19 are assessed in those cases are approximately two and a half 20 times that amount. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, the -- the amount 22 budgeted -- or the amount should go up for that 2,000. It's 23 not the -- the system isn't wrong; the amount's wrong. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: That's my feeling. That's my 25 feeling. They shouldn't suffer any offset because of their 8-24-04 wk 176 1 hearing those cases. And they -- and they're not getting 2 paid those special master's fees that are being ordered to 3 be paid to them. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're being paid half 5 of it, basically. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, less than half, I think. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I mean, I -- 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is there a difference 9 in the special master's fee you're talking about and this 10 mental hearing line item? Is that a different -- two 11 different things? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: No, it's the same thing, 13 except previously Kerr County was paying 100 cents on the 14 dollar of that $6,000. I changed the system and appointed 15 in each case a special master to hear these cases, and 16 assessed a $25 fee. That's going to generate, instead of 17 $6,000 for them, this last year probably somewhere around 18 $16,000, but only 20 percent of that was paid by Kerr 19 County. So, instead of Kerr County paying $6,150, which it 20 shows here, Kerr County was paying 20 percent of the 21 $16,000, which is $3,200. But the bottom line was, the 22 J.P.'s who were holding those hearings were not receiving 23 the $25 per case special master's fee that the Court was 24 ordering that they be paid. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why not? 8-24-04 wk 177 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, because -- because their 2 salary was reduced by anything excess that that would 3 generate over and above the $2,000. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't -- their salary 5 wasn't reduced. 6 MR. TOMLINSON: It was. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, it was. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, I remember it 9 was. And they raised hell with us about it. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: And I think they should have. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, this isn't done 13 right. This form must not be -- 14 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, if you'll -- do you 15 have your budget with you? Look on Page 25. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Page what? 17 MR. TOMLINSON: 25. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 45? 19 MR. TOMLINSON: 25. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: 25. That's J.P. 1. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: That's J.P. 1. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Better go to 2. 24 MR. TOMLINSON: So, that 33,856 is what -- is 25 what was budgeted last year and this year. If you look on 8-24-04 wk 178 1 the -- on Page 27, you'll see that -- that the budget for 2 that J.P. is $2,050 less than what 1 gets. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The handout doesn't have 4 the right numbers on it. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: The bottom line is, I think we 6 ought to fund the J.P.'s -- give them their regular salary, 7 pay them all the same amount. The ones that are hearing 8 mental health cases, they're not obligated to hear those 9 cases. Pay them the fee that they earn under the order of 10 special appointment, special master fee. And the bottom 11 line result is, it's going to cost Kerr County less money, 12 rather than the old system where Kerr County was paying 13 $6,000 of Kerr County funds, $2,000 to each J.P., and I can 14 pay those J.P.'s five times that before it costs Kerr County 15 $6,000, because we're only paying 20 percent of it. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, are these fees 17 actually being paid in to Kerr County from the other 18 counties? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Absolutely. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't have any 21 problem with that. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. They're charged -- 23 that's why I changed the system to appoint a special master, 24 impose a fee, because it's then charged as costs to the 25 county that pays that bill of cost, so they're paying for 8-24-04 wk 179 1 it. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Now, I don't 3 have any problem so far. Does that include you? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: No. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: In no way? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: No. Not that particular item, 7 no. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, that's right. 9 But -- but it -- but that's exactly the same thing that we 10 had talked about. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: That's exactly the same thing 12 that happened to me on the judicial supplement that you've 13 been collecting from all of these counties. It's the same 14 principle. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let's straighten out 17 the J.P.'s. Then we'll straighten yours out. If -- what 18 should then -- Tommy, what should a J.P.'s base salary be, 19 the line item in this budget? 33,856? 20 MR. TOMLINSON: That's right. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what it ought 22 to be. And then what the Judge is talking about comes in 23 over and above that. Then that's what I want to see happen. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let me make sure I'm 25 clear. Am I hearing that the J.P. who does not hear these 8-24-04 wk 180 1 mental health cases, his total compensation is the same as 2 the ones who do? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay, good. I'm 5 glad I misunderstood that. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: No, it wouldn't be. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But -- but his base 8 would be the same. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Base would be the same. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Base of all four of 11 them should be the same. But the three that are hearing the 12 cases are currently getting a couple thousand more? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: That's exactly right. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And he had the 15 opportunity, but he opted not to do it. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. What -- what 17 exactly is your proposal? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question -- 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We're going to raise 20 the base by some amount, 30 percent or something like that? 21 Are we going to raise the supplement? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: No, the supplement will take 23 care of itself. Because whatever that generates, whatever's 24 charged in the way of master's fees, that's what they get. 25 Now, I suspect that those three J.P.'s may want to take that 8-24-04 wk 181 1 as a pool and say, you know, this month I may hear more 2 cases than you, so to make it compatible for -- for the 3 Treasurer's purpose, say why don't we just cut that pie 4 three ways? And if I hear more cases, hey, so be it. If 5 you hear more cases, so be it. I suspect that's what 6 they're going to want to do. That's kind of how the system 7 has evolved. But the point is, they're not getting paid for 8 what's ordered to be paid for them. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But then that amount 10 isn't subject to retirement or anything else, I wouldn't 11 think, because they're being paid a -- I mean, maybe I'm 12 wrong, but it's not a salary then. They're getting paid a 13 fee that they're charging. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's just like the 15 state supplement that goes to the Judge. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Supplement. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's a supplement, 19 just like his line item supplement. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Be the same thing, I would 21 think. For -- I don't know. The Auditor knows more about 22 that. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: All the state supplements get 24 benefits applied to them. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If we apply benefits, we 8-24-04 wk 182 1 have to pay. 2 MR. TOMLINSON: Mm-hmm. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, see, I don't think 4 that's right. I don't think, just because they're choosing 5 to do these hearings that they're getting paid this fee, 6 we're adding to their retirement and -- I mean, there's 7 probably FICA and everything on something that is nothing to 8 do -- nothing to do with us. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, can you set a 10 certain amount of that fee that goes to them, and then the 11 rest of the amount of that fee goes to cover the increase in 12 FICA and all that the County would have to pay? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's fair to me. 14 Otherwise, we're sub -- we're beyond subsidizing. I mean, 15 we're subsidizing them doing extra work. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That generates 16,000. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's their choice, 18 nothing to do with them being a J.P. doing that work. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Now, I don't know about the 20 mechanics of it. If it's ordered to be paid so that it can 21 be charged as costs, I'm not sure lawfully what you can 22 withhold, is the problem. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Tommy, can you 24 address that? 25 MR. TOMLINSON: No, I don't know. 8-24-04 wk 183 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I think that 2 the -- 3 MR. TOMLINSON: I mean, I know that -- that 4 when there's a state supplement, when the Legislature allows 5 a state supplement, that's been true with -- we pay a state 6 supplement right now to juvenile probation officers, but the 7 County -- the County pays the benefits for that. And the 8 same way with -- with the County Attorney's supplement. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 10 MR. TOMLINSON: He gets a flat amount of 11 $33,900. We -- the County pays the -- the benefits, and 12 it's part of the law, evidently. I don't know how that -- 13 how that relates to what we're talking about. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: This isn't a state thing, 15 obviously, but I don't know what the rules are on rollups on 16 it. But, in order that it can be charged as costs and 17 collected as costs so that these funds are being paid 18 80 percent by other counties instead of 100 percent by Kerr 19 County, I've got to enter an order appointing them as a 20 special master, and ordering that a specific fee be paid to 21 them, and that's what I've been doing since last October. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I really don't see the 23 difference between this and any other fee that we assess. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the biggest difference 25 is, they're not obligated to do it. I can appoint an 8-24-04 wk 184 1 outside lawyer, far as that goes, to act as a special 2 master. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, three of them. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I can solve that problem, I 5 guess. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Three of them 7 obviously want to do it. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm just saying that the 9 fact that we're charging a fee of $25, I don't -- doesn't, 10 to me, mean they have to get $25 back. If we set the amount 11 they're going to get back at 2,000 and they choose to do it, 12 well, they can do it. If they don't choose to do it, well, 13 they don't do it. I don't see -- it's like saying, well, 14 all the fees collected by the County Clerk should go back to 15 the County Clerk. Or -- you know, and I don't see the 16 relationship between the fees that's collected by a service, 17 and then have to go to that elected official. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: If you want to pay 100 cents 19 on the dollar, you can control it, I think. That's what you 20 had been doing with the $6,000. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. What -- I mean, I 22 applaud you for coming -- figuring out a way to get other 23 counties to help pay this fee, and us paying a part of it 24 back or -- you know, and I'm not saying we shouldn't pay 25 more than 2,000, but I don't know that you have to pay 100 8-24-04 wk 185 1 percent. I mean, if you show that the -- for you to do what 2 you're doing, making them special masters, that 100 percent 3 of that fee has to be reimbursed to the employee -- or to 4 the elected official, and then the County has to add all the 5 retirement and FICA and everything on top of it -- 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't know -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- then we can do it. 8 But that's not -- 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't order the county -- I 10 don't order the county to pay anything except the special 11 master's fee that's assessed in each case. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But, Judge, wouldn't 13 that special master's fee -- and this is just -- I'm not the 14 attorney; you are. Wouldn't it -- it's billed by Kerr 15 County to those other counties to reimburse Kerr County the 16 costs of having that special master go out and do those 17 hearings. Wouldn't part of that cost be the FICA, 18 retirement, all the rest of that? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Not what the order says. It's 20 not what the order says. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. I don't know how 22 you -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: The order says they're 24 appointed as a special master to hear this particular case, 25 and they shall receive a fee of $25 for hearing this case, 8-24-04 wk 186 1 period. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that's what 3 they ought to get, 25 bucks. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Does that 25 bucks 5 go into our treasury, or is it going direct to those judges? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: It first is paid into Kerr 7 County's treasury, because it's charged as costs, and then 8 it's paid by the -- by the county that pays the bill of 9 cost. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I got the same 11 question Jonathan has. What's -- there's nothing that 12 compels us to spend all that money, give all that money back 13 to the three judges. We can give them 2,000 back or 2,500 14 back. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't think you can, when 16 the order says that the special master shall be paid this 17 amount. I think you're in violation of that order. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But then we can bill them 19 for using the telephone, using office space of the county 20 then, and deduct it by that amount. I mean, it's -- you're 21 getting into, you know, an accounting mess, I think, if you 22 start doing what you're talking about. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where I come apart on 24 the issue is not -- is not giving them the fee, but set -- 25 for the masters fee, I don't think we need to do the rollups 8-24-04 wk 187 1 on that. They earn 25 bucks, and give them the 25 bucks. 2 There's no reason -- no compelling reason to do a pension 3 rollup or a FICA rollup or anything else on that. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But if they're -- 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's -- that's a 6 supplemental fee. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If they're using anything 8 that's owned by the County to help generate that $25, that's 9 not right. That's like for me to use my office here to run 10 my ranch out of. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What are they using, 12 Jon? They're going out to the hospital to do it. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They have office space. 14 They're using telephones; they're using something. It's 15 against the law for them to use it for personal use. And 16 that's what this is. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Judge, are there real 18 strict guidelines on how you word that order? Can the order 19 be worded that that fee is used to reimburse Kerr County the 20 cost of appointing those masters? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: It's a discretionary order on 22 my part. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's what I'm saying. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: I know what the solution is. 25 I'll just start getting me a pool of lawyers and appointing 8-24-04 wk 188 1 them, and that'll solve the problem. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And then -- okay. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I just felt, you know, these 5 J.P.'s who have been doing this work, I just think they 6 ought to get compensated to the extent we can by the other 7 counties. And -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But you're saying -- 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Heretofore, we've been paying 10 100 cents on the dollar for these J.P.'s to do the same 11 thing that they've been getting paid. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But you're asking us to 13 pay 14 percent above the $25. The taxpayers of the county 14 are picking up that difference right now. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I didn't ask you to do that. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't think we need 17 to do that. I think give them that $25 fee and -- and let 18 it go at that. Because if the alternative is that the Judge 19 appoints a special master as an attorney, that's what he's 20 going to get, a $25 fee, period. If you're going to do it 21 for an outsider, do it for an insider. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Can't we just send 23 the $25 to Judge Ragsdale, just like we would send it to 24 some outside attorney? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure. 8-24-04 wk 189 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Not launder it 2 through the County? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't know about 4 that. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, no, it's all collected 6 in one bill of cost. It's -- it's charged as a separate 7 cost on the bill of cost that goes to the county that pays 8 the costs, that has all these other things with it. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That -- if it's done, 10 then it shouldn't even be listed in our salary schedule. It 11 shouldn't be part of their salary at all. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: That's fine. If you want to 13 take it out of there, I -- 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But put those dollars 15 -- you've got to have income coming in if you're going to 16 pay out something. So, if you're going to pay out a 17 supplement through the County, you got to have it coming in 18 someplace. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: I think so. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There's no question 21 about that. So, if this is not the appropriate place to put 22 it, then put it someplace else, and adjust their salary the 23 way it ought to be, up to 33,856, at -- before we do any 24 COLA's, and treat it as a supplement. And I agree with you, 25 we should not do rollups on it. I agree with that. 8-24-04 wk 190 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And they can't use 2 anything in the courthouse, and it's got to be clear to 3 them -- I don't know what they use, but they can't use 4 pencils, paper, computers. They can't use anything. 5 MS. NEMEC: It would have to definitely go 6 through contract labor, then. It would not be able to go 7 through payroll. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Whatever. Wherever 9 it's appropriate. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Then they get whatever 11 they -- and they get their monthly amount that month, and 12 that's it. And -- you know, or we do it the way we're doing 13 it now, and it goes into the general fund and they get a 14 good part of it. The rest of it goes to the County to pick 15 up the rollup that was in there right now. And the use of 16 the, you know, taxpayers' computers and office space and 17 everything else -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, if there's any 19 residue from this fund, as the Judge says there probably is, 20 then that does take care of -- of picking up the telephone 21 or using a pencil or whatever it is. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But if we just want to 23 pay the full amount out, then there isn't any residue. The 24 way we're set up right now, there's a residue, and maybe it 25 needs to be adjusted. We're paying out 6,000 -- a little 8-24-04 wk 191 1 over 6,000, and there's 16,000 that was collected this year, 2 so if you pay them out 4,000, then the residue kind of goes 3 in there. They get a standard amount. I'm not -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I think the problem comes in 5 if I appoint a special master, if it's going to be charged 6 as costs and I designate what that fee is payable to that 7 special master, I -- I think that determines where it goes. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Then it goes to them, and 9 they can't use any of the courthouse equipment. They have 10 to use outside office, can't be billed here or anything 11 else, because they can't -- you cannot use taxpayer funds 12 for private business, and this is private; it's nothing to 13 do with them being a J.P. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't think it's private 15 business. But -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It is. You said you can 17 do it to a private attorney. It's the same if you do it to 18 a private attorney. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a great 20 question, though. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Private attorney is going to 22 have to come in here and get copies of all these records 23 from the clerk. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the clerk will charge 25 them for them. 8-24-04 wk 192 1 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't think this clerk can. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, they're either 3 treated as an employee or treated as an outside contractor. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They're not a private 5 enterprise; they're doing state business. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But a private attorney 7 can do the same work. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And that private 9 attorney is doing state business. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It has nothing to with 11 them being J.P.'s, though. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's state business. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I might get a traffic 14 ticket doing state business, but I have to pay it. 15 (Laughter.) 16 MR. GARZA: I won't give you one. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And your tax dollars 18 are buying the administrative costs behind the ticket. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're not paying me 20 anything. I have no problem with them getting paid justly 21 for their work, but I just think it has to be clear-cut. I 22 don't think that the other -- the taxpayers as a whole 23 should subsidize them, and I see that happens if they're 24 getting rollup. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't know that they get 8-24-04 wk 193 1 rollup, and I'm not asking that they get rollup. I -- all 2 I'm wanting you to do is do what the court order says. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If it's in their 4 paycheck, they're getting rollup, and it's retirement and 5 everything else into it. 6 MS. NEMEC: I would think if we're going to 7 do what the court order says, then they need to keep track 8 of how many cases they hear, how many of these come in for 9 their particular ones, and turn it in to the accounts 10 payable and get reimbursed. It's a wash. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 25 times "X" number 13 of cases. 14 MS. NEMEC: That's right. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have no problem 16 with that. 17 MS. NEMEC: Keep track of it. They turn it 18 in as accounts payable, and that way they can get 19 100 percent of what -- 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: $25. 21 MS. NEMEC: -- they're supposed to be 22 getting. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: That's the only way we can do 24 a 1099 on them. 25 MS. NEMEC: They would get a 1099. They'd be 8-24-04 wk 194 1 responsible for their taxes if it goes over $600. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's fine. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Sounds like a simple enough 4 solution to me. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I like it. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's fine. 7 MS. NEMEC: So we're going to take the 2,000 8 out? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And we're going to 11 adjust their base salary to the original 33,856. 12 MS. NEMEC: Okay. 13 (Discussion off the record.) 14 MS. NEMEC: Of course, they'll be upset 15 because, you know, you start thinking about building up your 16 retirement fund, and this is going to affect their 17 retirement. But -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're also going to 19 have to do recordkeeping. Any other thoughts, Judge? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let's deal with the 21 Judge's supplement. Let's kick him around a little bit 22 here. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Y'all don't want me to show up 24 and put my feet up around here, suck in any cool air, huh? 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, that judge's 8-24-04 wk 195 1 supplement, we could just probably give that to any attorney 2 up and down the street. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: You could. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Create a special pool 5 of attorneys and divvy that up right there. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: There's a saying, the pen is 7 mightier than the sword. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Add all those numbers up, 9 Judge. How much money do you make? You've never added them 10 up. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: I think it's less than -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The Sheriff. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: -- all these people the 14 Sheriff's told us about. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: About 10,000 more than 16 the Sheriff, at least. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: I see. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: More than that, 19 probably. 20 MR. GARZA: 20,000 more than the constables. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Constables? What are 22 they sitting back there for? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, no. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, give me a break. 25 It's time to go home, Judge. 8-24-04 wk 196 1 (Discussion off the record.) 2 MR. TOMLINSON: Judge, I -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, sir? 4 MR. TOMLINSON: Do the J.P.'s -- do they do 5 anything at the State Hospital that's not, like, a medical 6 hearing or -- 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I do all the medical -- med 8 petitions and the commitments. 9 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Are you talking about that? 11 MR. TOMLINSON: I know at one time, they -- 12 they did, and that's -- that's how this $6,000 was started. 13 It wasn't -- it wasn't from doing the hearing that they had 14 -- actually, it got started as a -- as a reimbursement for 15 their expenses to go from their office to -- to the State 16 Hospital. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: My recollection is that's how 18 it started. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. And I -- so that's my 20 -- the reason for my question. If they do anything out 21 there that's not ordered by the Court. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: The only thing that they might 23 do is maybe on an emergency, very seldom. Occasionally. 24 But insofar as actually holding hearings, no. Those are -- 25 those are what -- notice of hearings and the appointment of 8-24-04 wk 197 1 special master. 2 MR. TOMLINSON: This -- this started when we 3 had -- when the County had a County Judge that was not an 4 attorney, and -- and they had -- they were requested to do a 5 lot of hearings out there. And there was a lot of expense 6 incurred in -- especially when -- when J.P. 2 was in Center 7 Point, they were having to make trip after trip from Center 8 Point to Kerrville to the hospital to do hearings. They 9 weren't -- and that's -- I just wanted to make that clear as 10 to why this $6,000 was there to start with. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's give all elected 12 officials a $1,000 increase and go home. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: What do you want to do with 14 that $4,000 supplement? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which one? Yours? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He ain't going to let us 18 go home. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, we're on the 20 County Judge now? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We never got off him. 22 Does the same principle apply? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Absolutely. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What we've been 25 arguing about with the J.P.'s? 8-24-04 wk 198 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Same thing -- same thing 2 occurred in connection with that that occurred with the 3 J.P.'s last year. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do we sign an order 5 as a -- as a special deal that provides dollars for you? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Don't have to. The state 7 statute says it. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's it say? Refresh 9 my memory. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: That's on the supplemental -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: For -- I mean, what -- 12 what are you getting paid in the supplement for doing? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: For holdings hearings away 14 from the courthouse. It's being collected by the County in 15 each case on hearings that are held that I hold. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How much is collected 17 per case? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: $10. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: $10? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: On all cases? Or 22 just those from out of county? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: No, on all cases. All cases. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Handle it the same way, I 25 guess. 8-24-04 wk 199 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's good for the 2 goose is good for the gander. Or the geese. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do it the same way. Turn 4 in a report -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, 1099. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I got no problem with 7 it. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, we delete that? 9 MS. NEMEC: Are we deleting the four now? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Deleting the whole line. 11 MR. TOMLINSON: Deleting all of 104? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Hmm? 13 MR. TOMLINSON: We're deleting all of 104 in 14 the County Court budget? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which line are we 16 talking about? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, we got to have a way to 18 pay it out. I mean, what's it going to be paid out of? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 106 in the County 20 Judge's -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- I think 22 somewhere on all of them, we need to keep track of it so the 23 public is aware where this -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- this money goes out. 8-24-04 wk 200 1 But I think they just get whatever -- how many other things 2 he gets. He does get $10 a hearing. Turn in a bill -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Change 108 to 106, 4 add it in. Same thing. 5 MS. NEMEC: So, when I do this schedule for 6 elected officials, you know how we're supposed to list last 7 year's salary and then this year's salary. Am I just going 8 to leave off this $25 reimbursement and the $10 9 reimbursement? That's going to go through A.P. I'm not 10 going to show it on here at all; is that correct? It's not 11 a salary. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: No. 13 MS. NEMEC: Okay. I mean, we're not treating 14 it as a salary. We're treating it as a reimbursement of a 15 fee, right? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think you're right. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Supplemental fee. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: But the four goes back and is 19 added to the five. 20 MS. NEMEC: Into 106; is that correct? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Four goes back and is 22 added to the five? What's that mean? As I see it, your 23 salary goes down $5,716. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: What? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, you -- that whole 8-24-04 wk 201 1 line, right, is going off? That's going to be coming -- 2 you're going to get paid that whole line -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: No, no. The 4,000 was taken 4 off the 9,000; that is now 5,700. So, that needs to go up 5 to 9,716. The 4,000 needs to come off. 6 MS. NEMEC: And we're going to put the 9,716 7 together through Accounts Payable. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: 'Cause that was deducted last 9 year. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Your salary's going to go 11 up, and then you're going to get a -- a fee on top of it? 12 MS. NEMEC: He was getting paid 5,716 13 already, and then the 4,000 was -- 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Carved out of the nine. 15 MS. NEMEC: Right. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It was nine, and it 17 was reduced by the four. So, what will your supplement be? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, with your proposed 19 supplement, your last column is going to say 40,665? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Right. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Then the first state 22 supplement is 10,000. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Right. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The County Judge other 25 supplement's going to be nine thousand -- 8-24-04 wk 202 1 JUDGE TINLEY: 716. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- 716. Then your 3 Juvenile Board's 11 -- 1,200. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: That's it. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And we delete that last 6 judicial supplement? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm, that's correct. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And then you're going to 9 get a 1099 for whatever your -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- other things are. So, 12 you're getting an off-the-table raise. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm getting paid for what the 14 law says I ought to get paid for. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just different ways of 16 phrasing the same thing. And your 1,000 for all elected 17 officials, Buster. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Only thing I would 20 probably say, I think that the -- just to keep it -- try to 21 keep some parity in it, those that drive a lot, maybe add 22 200 more. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Who are those people? 24 The County Clerk? The County Tax Assessor/Collector? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: J.P.'s. How much do 8-24-04 wk 203 1 J.P.'s drive? 2 AUDIENCE: A lot. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the J.P.'s drive 4 a lot. 5 MS. NEMEC: That's -- all the money goes 6 here, so I have to go to the bank. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I drive a lot, I can 8 tell you that. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Nobody drives more 10 than I do. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's true. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's very much -- it's 13 everybody except the judges and anyone that has a car. 14 (Laughter.) 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think you ought to 16 take -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean a -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How many oats can we 19 buy for our horse? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- County car. A County 21 vehicle. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That damn German. I'm 23 telling you, man, if you own a car, you can't get paid. 24 MS. NEMEC: Unless it's -- 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You can get some 8-24-04 wk 204 1 travel money, but you can't get paid. I think that'll be 2 three -- used to be 12. Maybe we ought to make it 15. And 3 that's barely an offset to the cost of fuel. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: But when you were saying 5 "judges," are you including County Court at Law? District? 6 Or are you including me? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I was not including you. 8 Actually, in that, I was including the County Court at Law 9 and the District Judges. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: The District Judges receive 11 state funds, so that will take care of that. And, of 12 course, Spencer's right here. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Why are we giving 15 elected officials a raise in addition to COLA? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you saying yes, 17 or -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He said "why." 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Why. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why? Why not? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that 22 Commissioners didn't get one, and I think that you get to a 23 point of -- you know, everyone should be treated the same. 24 I think every -- virtually every study I've seen is that 25 elected officials in this county are median or below in 8-24-04 wk 205 1 almost every position. Elected officials as a whole are not 2 paid -- I've always been somewhat indifferent to pay raises 3 for elected officials, but I certainly don't oppose them, 4 'cause I think they're -- they all do a lot of work. 5 MS. NEMEC: I think in the past, the reason 6 that we have given a COLA to elected officials and then 7 raised their salary, one was because we discussed it; that 8 cost-of-living increase goes across the board. Every 9 elected official, just like an employee, has cost-of-living 10 increases. So -- and then the salary is just an adjustment 11 to try to keep getting the elected officials up to where 12 they should be. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And there's nothing in 14 the law says that you have to take it. 15 MS. NEMEC: Right. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If you'd like to turn 17 it back, you can sure give it back. 18 MS. NEMEC: Absolutely. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Cost-of-living is to 20 continue to give you the same buying power with your 21 dollars, as we all know, this year as you had last year. 22 That's what that's all about. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. And I -- I buy 24 bread at H.E.B. just like the janitor does. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Got you. 8-24-04 wk 206 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think there -- I mean, 2 and it's not in any way -- not uniform, the disparity in 3 elected officials' salaries in this county versus others, 4 but when you go in and try to adjust one and not the others, 5 I think you end up with more problems than trying to do a 6 little bit of adjustment across the board. 7 MS. NEMEC: That was also the reason the 8 Court at one time had gone to a -- just a flat $1,000 or 9 whatever, rather than a percentage on cost-of-living and 10 then a percentage on an increase for what you make, because 11 then you're really getting everybody off, because they're 12 getting more, those who get paid more. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I believe, and I 14 think I'm right, that since I've been a Commissioner, that 15 $1,200 is the only -- or whatever it was, that -- 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There was an increase 17 in '01-'02. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: '01-'02 was a large 19 increase. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The 20 -- $3,200 increase 21 is the only increase since I've been here in eight years. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Other than COLA. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Other than COLA. And a 24 COLA, I don't think, is a pay raise. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't either. 8-24-04 wk 207 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: As small as ours have 2 been, it's been, you know, a pay reduction almost. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: COLA is exactly what 4 it is; it's a cost-of-living adjustment. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This Commissioners 6 Court -- and the reason the Commissioners have gotten far 7 fewer raises than any elected officials is because we take 8 the heat for doing it. We chose not to take the heat a lot 9 of times, and I think it's just -- it's not right. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you saying $1,000 11 all up and down? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me see if I understand. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We could do more. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Seems to me like we've got 15 three different elements that we're dealing with. One is 16 the disparity that we talked about a little bit ago of last 17 year when all the elected officials got an increase, and I 18 think Judge Brown -- of course, that's tied to a different 19 standard. This Court did not. So, we got -- the second 20 element is the -- the travel, the moving around requirement 21 and the cost of doing that. And then the third is the 22 across-the-board that you were talking about, and I'm not 23 sure I understand which one, or more than one, or all three 24 that we're talking about here. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I don't know how 8-24-04 wk 208 1 you do the -- the travel issue. Almost every elected 2 official does travel. I mean -- I mean, not us, but all 3 these ladies go to the bank; they go somewhere doing 4 something on county business. And I -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, you travel in your 6 private car and go out and meet with constituents and go out 7 and look at road situations and all that sort of stuff. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I do a whole bunch of 9 mine, but I think the ones that don't, or shouldn't be -- if 10 that's a -- that item is a consideration. Any of them that 11 have -- constables, they have vehicles. The Sheriff has a 12 vehicle. They shouldn't get any kind of a travel allowance 13 adjustment, because they're -- they have a gasoline and a 14 maintenance line item in their budget. So, everybody -- 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Didn't we take care 16 of it last year? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Except those who have 18 cars -- I mean those that have county vehicles. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Barbara, who all had 20 -- who all had the 1,200 that got rolled in, like -- I guess 21 I can see it right now. Can you look back on this sheet? 22 She prepared this back in the '00-'01 -- 23 MS. NEMEC: Right. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You can see where 25 they were that got rolled in. Is that correct? 8-24-04 wk 209 1 MS. NEMEC: That's correct. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: All of those. Some 3 had six, some had seven. 4 MS. NEMEC: Right. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Some had 12. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Some had 18. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, it's the Tax 9 Assessor, Treasurer, County Attorney, J.P.'s, District 10 Clerk, County Clerk, Commissioners, and County Judge. And 11 the constables did, but constables were given a county -- 12 MS. NEMEC: I think it's hard for you to 13 determine -- you know, like Ms. Rector was saying that she 14 does more traveling. I don't really know how you can 15 determine that she does more than anybody else. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think do a flat rate 17 for all. 18 MS. NEMEC: If we're going to increase our 19 salaries because of the travel, then it should be equal 20 across the board. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Exactly. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree for all -- for 23 those -- if that's a component, a separate component, I 24 think it should be. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree. 8-24-04 wk 210 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I would say all those 2 should get $200 for the travel for using personal 3 vehicles -- or $200 or $300. I don't think it's a huge 4 amount. And then I just think, you know, if you want to say 5 every elected official gets a $1,000 increase, then everyone 6 gets $1,000. So, those that use their personal vehicles 7 would get $1,200 or $1,300. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In addition to the 9 COLA. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm cool with that. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Does that make sense? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm fine with that. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Commissioner Baldwin 15 looks perplexed. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: He's studying. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ciphering. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ciphering. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ciphering. 20 MR. TOMLINSON: Am I not hearing a COLA for 21 elected officials? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: COLA for everybody. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. That -- I didn't 24 include that in the numbers that I just did. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: When you rerun this. 8-24-04 wk 211 1 MR. TOMLINSON: I was thinking that it was 2 just -- the COLA was for employees only, so I can adjust 3 that. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We've done it up and 5 down last year and every year, top to bottom. 6 MR. TOMLINSON: That wasn't what I heard at 7 the last meeting. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what the 9 intent was. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me try this one. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is brand-new in 14 here. Give the Commissioners Court the 1,000 that we missed 15 out on last year and start there, and then put the rest of 16 the program in place. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: The rest of the program being? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Being the COLA and 19 $1,000 for all the elected officials. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that's too much 21 for the Commissioners. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That would be a $2,000 23 increase a year for each one of us. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Does that include him? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Except for the Judge. 8-24-04 wk 212 1 JUDGE TINLEY: What? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You just gave him 3 four. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I said, does it include 5 you? No, I'm just wondering. I'm not being derogatory. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: You need to fill out new 7 forms, sorry. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I can't explain that 9 kind of increase to the taxpayers that pay my salary. I 10 can't -- I can't say we voted to give ourselves a pretty 11 good pay increase. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I think 1,000 13 is okay -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I could -- 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- to catch up. We 16 lost it. We didn't do it; we missed that opportunity. So I 17 can go with what we talked about, the original one plus COLA 18 and adjusting what used to be travel. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Travel. $300 in the 20 travel? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Three is -- 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the number I 23 heard -- last number I heard. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I said 300. That's -- I 25 just tossed out a number. 8-24-04 wk 213 1 MS. NEMEC: So, when I redo this schedule, 2 I'm going to take last year's salary, add 2 and a half or 3 3 percent cost-of-living, add 1,000, plus the 200? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 300. 5 MS. NEMEC: 300 for -- 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Travel adjustment of 7 three. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you add the raise and then 9 put the COLA on top? Or do you -- 10 MS. NEMEC: No, it's a cost-of-living on what 11 you're making now, then COLA, then the increase. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that's -- I 13 think that's defensible. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, that's fine. 15 MS. NEMEC: I'll provide y'all with a new 16 spreadsheet so that y'all can see it and make sure that 17 it's -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we're about done 19 today. I think Friday is our next meeting. I think that 20 Friday we need to look at the Nicholson plan for the 21 Sheriff's Department, and see what that does. And I still 22 think that if -- if we do make an increase there and someone 23 gets above the Sheriff, the Sheriff needs to get above that 24 person, but I'm not in favor of giving the Sheriff -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, for the sake of 8-24-04 wk 214 1 time, why don't we ask them to run those numbers and have 2 them ready for Friday? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So that we can -- we 5 can see that we're going to have to raise taxes 18 to 6 25 percent to pay for it. So we'll know. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's fine. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think we need to 9 know. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And -- and have -- 11 have all that ready Friday. And we know how much income we 12 have? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: You got -- I put the latest 15 thing in your -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got it in my box, 17 yes, sir. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the latest? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the latest I got. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We're just in time 22 to get over to City Hall for -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you going to go 24 hear the U.D.C. discussion tonight? 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No, I'm going to go 8-24-04 wk 215 1 home and eat pizza and drink beer. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This evaluation, if 3 you get it back, Buster -- 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: They're not -- 5 second page. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Not applicable? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second page is not -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's an exit interview. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I looked at that and 10 I thought Kathy had already quit. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You got two of them. 12 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 13 MS. NEMEC: I believe Tommy is going to do 14 the overall numbers, and I'm going to update -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 16 MS. NEMEC: -- the schedule. Is that 17 correct, Tommy? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Just so you guys will be on 19 notice, before we get through here, I've got the Treasurer 20 working up some numbers on our reporter here, and I'm going 21 to have some ideas on that, and I may even ask the Auditor 22 to plug them in before it comes back to you. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 24 MS. NEMEC: 'Cause I can pretty much tell 25 you, the only increase that's been given is the 8-24-04 wk 216 1 cost-of-living. There hasn't been any merits, so y'all 2 might want to do the same that y'all were talking about. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What are you 4 plugging in for jailers? Deputies? 5 MS. NEMEC: I don't think we've been given 6 direction on that. 7 MR. TOMLINSON: There's nothing in there -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What was your proposal? 9 The Nicholson plan. I like the way that sounds. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 11 MR. TOMLINSON: As far as the jailers and the 12 Sheriff's Office employees, they're -- on the numbers we 13 have today, there is nothing in there -- there's no change 14 from last year, except for the -- the longevity. 15 MS. NEMEC: And COLA. 16 MR. TOMLINSON: COLA's not in there. 17 MS. NEMEC: Oh, COLA's not in there for 18 deputies? 19 MR. TOMLINSON: 'Cause I didn't -- 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Mine was 3,000 for 21 deputies, all -- all certified police -- whatever you call 22 them, and 1,500 for correction officers. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: 3,000, deputies? 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And 28,000 for the 25 Sheriff. 8-24-04 wk 217 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Better get you a new 2 chair. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We need to plug 4 something in so we can see the impact. Sheriff has got a 5 little bit different formula than I do, but we ought to plug 6 either my formula in or the Sheriff's formula in. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: My formula was 1,500 for 8 deputies and 2,000 for jailers, and then 3,000 for clerical 9 and secretaries. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Actually, that's the 11 numbers I would like to see. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's the ones that -- 13 you know, and then a cost-of-living. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what he wants. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Plug Rusty's numbers 16 in, please. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I mean, isn't that 18 what he -- I mean, that's what he's saying he desires. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's what I'm saying. 20 It will put the deputies a little over 1,000 less than what 21 the Kerrville Police Department is, but Kerrville Police 22 Department doesn't have vehicles, and I think that 23 actually -- 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Rusty? Rusty? Rusty, 25 just give them the numbers. 8-24-04 wk 218 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, I'm trying to 2 justify -- clerical would be all secretaries and clerks. 3 MS. NEMEC: And you're wanting 3,000 for each 4 one of them? 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Across-the-board, and 6 the cost-of-living. And if that's -- if the Court doesn't 7 decide on that, I agree with what Buster -- the 12 -- the 12 8 step has to go. Those people that are all 12's, whether in 9 my department or anybody else -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with that 11 point. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- is ridiculous. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let's plug in what 14 Rusty's scheme is, and we can negotiate away from it. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: What I'd like to have -- I 16 mean, I only have one day to do this, so I -- 17 JUDGE TINLEY: You're going to be busy. 18 MR. TOMLINSON: 'Cause I'm going to be gone 19 Thursday. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This retirement thing 21 has already kicked in, hasn't it? 22 MR. TOMLINSON: So I need -- I just need a 23 number, and not have to deal with -- 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You got those, 25 Rusty? 8-24-04 wk 219 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes, we'll give them to 2 you. I have a number, total of each one. 3 MS. NEMEC: Add 3,000 to clerical, too? I 4 don't -- I don't see how that can -- I don't see the reason 5 behind that. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's what we'll 7 talk about Friday. 8 MS. NEMEC: I know -- well, for every other 9 department, I don't see the reason for the clerical being 10 moved up that much -- 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't either. 12 MS. NEMEC: -- in one department, unless it's 13 a reclassification of a job description. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it came from -- 15 and I -- I kind of -- I think I agree with you, but I think 16 it's more of a county move to get away from the 12 positions 17 and move it -- you know, but it kind of pumps everything up, 18 I know. But, at the same time -- 19 MS. NEMEC: So you're talking about 20 reclassifying, not just -- 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, the way we 22 propose, just to make it simple on proposing, was the 3,000 23 across the board. Now, some of it may be better suited in a 24 reclassification, especially the 12's and some of the 14's, 25 whether that be county-wide or whatever. You know, it's -- 8-24-04 wk 220 1 it's just that -- and I feel, as a whole, the -- all 2 clerical secretaries and clerks in the county just have 3 really not been looked at strongly for a long time. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Is that it, gentlemen? 5 Anything further? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My last comment, I would 7 just -- I would not do the clerical, and let's do a clerical 8 discussion on Friday. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, we're going to 10 -- we're going to plug in -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, we will stand adjourned. 12 (Budget workshop adjourned at 6:12 p.m.) - - - - - - - - - - 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 8-24-04 wk 221 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 5 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 6 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 7 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 7th day of January, 8 2005. 9 10 11 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 12 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 13 Certified Shorthand Reporter 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 8-24-04 wk