1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Special Session 10 Monday, September 27, 2004 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 DAVE NICHOLSON, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X September 27, 2004 2 PAGE --- Visitors' Input 4 3 --- Commissioners' Comments 13 4 1.2 Report from Bob Henderson, Kerr County Financial Advisor, regarding Juvenile Detention Facility 18 5 1.5 Review Employee Health Benefits procedures and process for coming year with consultant 85 6 1.9 PUBLIC HEARING on proposed salary, expenses, and other allowances of elected county or precinct 7 officers for FY 2004-2005 89 1.11 PUBLIC HEARING on Revision of Plat for Tracts 28A 8 & 28B of Y.O. Ranchlands 90 1.13 PUBLIC HEARING for road name changes, regulatory 9 signs and road abandonment 91 1.16 PUBLIC HEARING on proposed FY 2004-2005 Kerr 10 County Budget 92 1.18 Resolution thanking Colonel Walter B. Harris for 11 his service to Kerr County 9-1-1 Network 92 1.19 Appoint Ron Vick as County representative to 12 Board of Governors of Kerr County 9-1-1 Network 98 1.20 Discuss agreements/protocols needed to authorize 13 Kimble County/Junction to assume responsibility as primary responder for 9-1-1 emergency calls 14 made from Y.O. Ranchlands Subdivision 101 1.1 Approval of Kerr County Community plan 117 15 1.3 Approve replacement of Judges and/or Alternate Judges for the 2004 General Election 119 16 1.4 Approve the cost for copy of the 2004-05 Budget 120 1.6 Discuss setting Sheriff's and Constables' Fees 17 as required under LGC Section 118.131 122 1.7 Adoption of Resolution proclaiming October as 18 Czech Heritage Month in Kerr County 134 1.8 Adoption of Resolution proclaiming September as 19 Emergency Preparedness Month in Kerr County 136 1.10 Set salary, expenses, and other allowances of 20 elected county or precinct officers for FY 04-05 137 1.12 Revision of Plat for Tracts 28A & 28B of Y.O. 21 Ranchlands 137 1.14 Consider road name changes, regulatory signs, and 22 road abandonment 138 1.15 Consider budget line item transfer of $2,500 to 23 Victims' Rights Coordinator account 140 1.17 Adoption of proposed FY 04-05 Kerr County Budget 141 24 1.21 Set public hearing for Revision of Plat for Tracts 29 and 35 of Kerr Vista Ranch Section Four 163 25 3 1 I N D E X (Continued) September 27, 2004 2 PAGE 1.22 Consider advertising for bids on Road & Bridge 3 capital outlays not available on Government Purchasing programs 165 4 1.23 Set public hearing concerning regulatory signs, school zone, and road acceptance 166 5 1.24 Consider releasing Letter of Credit #2004-02 issued for Hermosa Subdivision 171 6 1.25 Set public hearing for Revision of Plat for Lots 21 & 22 into Lot 21A, The Reserve of Falling 7 Water, and Revision of Plat for Lots 6, 7E & 7W into Lot 6R, The Reserve of Falling Water 172 8 1.26 Consider and discuss process to select individual to fill unexpired term of Justice of the Peace 3 176 9 1.27 Consider appointment or designation of person(s) to act as temporary Pct. 3 Justice of the Peace 179 10 1.28 Approval of grant application for Help America Vote Act funds, adoption of appropriate and/or 11 necessary resolution in connection therewith 180 1.29 Adoption of Resolution declaring September 2004 12 as Destination Dignity Month 186 1.30 Set public hearing on September 30, 2004, at 13 5 p.m., in Kerr County Courthouse to review the performance and obtain comments on TCDP Program 14 Year Contract 721075, Kerrville South Wastewater Project, Phase I 187 15 1.31 Consider consolidating voting location for Pct. 320 and 312 at Zion Lutheran Church for the 16 November 2, 2004 General Election --- 1.32 Consider retaining Community Resource Group, Inc., 17 of Austin to conduct mail survey of Center Point area to determine 2003 Adjusted Median Household 18 Income for inclusion with grant application 188 1.33 Approve changing the voting location for Precinct 19 320 190 20 4.1 Pay Bills 192 4.2 Budget Amendments 194 21 4.3 Late Bills 204 4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 205 22 5.1 Reports from Commissioners/Liaison Committee 23 Assignments 206 24 --- Adjourned 212 25 4 1 On Monday, September 27, 2004, at 9:00 a.m., a special 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in the 3 Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville, 4 Texas, and the following proceedings were had in open court: 5 P R O C E E D I N G S 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning. Let me call to 7 order the meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court 8 scheduled for this date and time, Monday, September the 9 27th, 2004, at 9 a.m. Commissioner 4, I believe you have 10 the honors this morning. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Would you join me in 12 prayer and the pledge, please? 13 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. At this time, if 15 there's any member of the public that wishes to be heard on 16 a matter that is not an agenda item, feel privileged to come 17 forward at this time. If you have a desire to be heard on a 18 matter that is a listed agenda item, we would ask that you 19 fill out a participation form -- they're located at the back 20 of the room -- so that we'll have the benefit of having that 21 information up here, and won't miss you when it comes time 22 for that item. But at this time, if there's any member of 23 the public that wishes to come forward and be heard on any 24 matter that is not listed as an agenda item -- first off, we 25 have Ms. Dot Larimer, who has indicated a desire to be heard 9-27-04 5 1 on an item not a current agenda item. Ms. Larimer? 2 MS. LARIMER: Want me to come up first? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, you may come forward. 4 Thank you very much. As you come forward, if you'll give 5 your name and address so that the reporter can have the 6 benefit of taking that information down? Thank you. 7 MS. LARIMER: My name is Dorothy Larimer. 8 Most people call me Dot, and I am the Kerr County Democratic 9 Party Chair. I don't have a lot of prepared remarks, 10 because I didn't know exactly what might happen here today, 11 but considering what was in the transcript of what occurred 12 at the last Commissioners Court meeting, I thought it 13 appropriate that I at least be present to address anything 14 that might be brought up, and to defend our position in 15 regard to the comments that were made that I read on the 16 transcript. I am aware that one man's facts might be 17 another man's mud to sling, and I also recognize that two 18 persons can witness a single event and see that event quite 19 differently. I had a number of observations on the morning 20 in question, September 11th. First of all, one of those 21 observations was, I wondered why so few people were in 22 attendance at a 9/11 event. I had not seen it published. I 23 thought, you know, I'm a pretty busy person; maybe I just 24 missed it in the paper, but obviously I was not the only 25 person who had missed it. 9-27-04 6 1 Usually, at an event of this sort, where the 2 band -- the high school band is present, at least there is a 3 parent who comes with the band person, and at least a friend 4 will come with someone in the band, and there was -- the 5 huge band was there, but I didn't see a crowd. I could have 6 been mistaken. I felt a little embarrassed for the people 7 who were actually presenting and participating in that to 8 have so few people from the community show up. I remarked 9 to one of the people who was with me at the time, "If the 10 press is covering this event, they'll get a shot showing 11 those few people lined up on the sidewalk so they can show a 12 picture of as many people as they can get in the shot, and 13 then they'll put that front and center on Page 1 above the 14 fold." And, sure enough, there it was on Monday morning, 15 the same shot that I said -- predicted would be there. 16 There were a lot of people walking around the market during 17 the ceremony. Some of the people there sat through the 18 national anthem, but I really had no way of knowing whether 19 those folks were democrats or republicans. Several people 20 who were walking around had their dogs with them. I was not 21 one of those, and no one who came with me was one of those 22 either. 23 The thing that I'm more concerned about is 24 closing down of political activity on the public square. 25 Sometimes I tell my friends -- they ask me what I'm doing 9-27-04 7 1 these days, and sometimes I say I'm wearing a purple dress 2 and a red hat, and I'm dragging my stick along the public 3 railings. There are a number of democrats who live here in 4 Kerr County, and I do the best I can to get those people out 5 to vote, and that's exactly what I'm trying to do during 6 this election time. I'm not trying to break anybody's 7 rules. I'm not trying to run off the Market Association, 8 although I wonder if there are others who are trying to run 9 off that group. I am hopeful that whatever conflict that 10 occurred is resolved, but I hope it would not be at the 11 expense of either the Market Days group or either political 12 party. If we cannot campaign during campaign time, and we 13 can't bring any kind of campaign information onto the 14 courthouse square, then I guess you can't bring bumper 15 stickers on; you can't have a car that has a bumper sticker 16 on it. There are a number of things that would have to be 17 eliminated if we couldn't politic on the courthouse square. 18 I probably have a lot of other thoughts that I don't need to 19 address at this moment, and probably there are other people 20 who could say it better than I did, but I do hope that you 21 will reconsider your position as far as allowing politicking 22 on the courthouse square. Thank you, and thank you for all 23 that you do for the people of Kerr County. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Ms. Larimer. 25 Christine MacMillan. I might note that Ms. MacMillan is 9-27-04 8 1 here with some students from Our Lady of the Hills. 2 MS. MACMILLAN: Yes, sir. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Catholic school located here 4 in Kerrville. And we appreciate you being here. Thank you. 5 MS. MACMILLAN: Thank you, sir. My name is 6 Christine MacMillan, and I also come to address the issue 7 that happened in your last meeting. I am also with the 8 class of 2005 from O.L.H., and we've just completed our 9 study of the First Amendment and the right of free speech 10 and freedom of expression in our government class, and we 11 believe that the comments made by the Commissioners about 12 the September 11th, 2004 Market Days events relating to the 13 motor home booth might be viewed as a challenge of the First 14 Amendment rights. After reviewing a copy of the contract 15 between the County and the Market Days Association, we find 16 no reference to the prohibition of political activities at 17 Market Days. We understand that the Republican Women of 18 Kerr County were at Market Days events previously, as well 19 as other partisan activities, including the soliciting of 20 signatures in support of the Kerrville Veterans 21 Administration Hospital and -- and the campaign against the 22 Upper Guadalupe River Association have also taken place at 23 previous Market Days. 24 We believe there is no basis for canceling 25 Market Days. We urge you to readdress this issue, and the 9-27-04 9 1 issue -- and in a positive manner, and revise the contract 2 if needed, but please do not punish those who enjoy the 3 Market Days and the vendors who abide by the contract rules. 4 I would also like to mention that my father is the Sheriff 5 of Bandera County, and he told me this weekend that Bandera 6 Commissioners Court has made a rule to stop political 7 campaigning on their courthouse. So, thank you for your 8 time. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Ms. MacMillan. 10 MS. MACMILLAN: May I give you a letter that 11 we wrote? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Surely. Surely. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thank you. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: We appreciate you being here 15 with us today. Mr. Ron Hatchett. 16 MR. HATCHETT: Yes. Thank you, Your Honor. 17 I won't be long here, because it would be redundant, but I 18 am here to speak on the issue of free speech. My name's Ron 19 Hatchett. I'm a former Air Force officer, 20 years. I'm 20 also a former member of the Reagan administration, where I 21 worked for Secretary Carlucci and Secretary of Defense 22 Weinberger before that. So, I'm no bleeding-heart liberal, 23 but I have to say that I was upset by what I read in the 24 newspapers about the discussion that went on here concerning 25 the events of 9/11 here on the courthouse square. I 9-27-04 10 1 happened to be here for that day, and I thought the 2 veterans -- the ceremony for 9/11, even though it was small, 3 was very well done, and a very good commemoration of the 4 events of that day. I didn't see anything -- I saw the 5 mobile home; I saw the sign, but I didn't see anything 6 offensive. I didn't see anything that would have warranted 7 the words about, "Very offensive. Very offensive. I can't 8 tell you how angry I was over it. There were veterans 9 walking around." Well, I'm a veteran of Vietnam too, and I 10 wasn't offended by what I saw there. 11 And especially what bothered me was the -- 12 the degree of anger that was evinced in these words that 13 were in the transcript. And when I read in the paper that 14 the other -- the other political party had had similar 15 exhibitions and similar activities at Market Day and there 16 was no outrage, this is what prompted me to come up and -- 17 and talk today. That, plus the idea that, well, since they 18 allowed this mobile home in, maybe we ought to cancel Market 19 Day. I thought that was really beyond the pale of what 20 would have been a reasonable response to this. As was just 21 said by my predecessor speaking here, I think that that 22 would punish a lot of people in this county. I know very 23 many people, including myself -- that day I was able to buy 24 a little footstool for my grandson that had a police car on 25 it. His father's a police officer, and you don't see those 9-27-04 11 1 things at Schreiner's Department Store and places like that. 2 So, I think that what we have here with 3 Market Day is a good thing, and the idea of saying we're 4 going to close it down because there was an exhibition of a 5 political discussion here I think is very premature. And 6 what I would urge the Commissioners simply is this; if it is 7 in the interests of the people of Kerr County that we not 8 have political activities on the courthouse square, then it 9 should apply equally to both parties or to all parties; in 10 fact, all political organizations. And we should make that 11 a policy, and it should be a public policy that everyone 12 should know. And I don't think the people at Market Day and 13 the people who enjoy Market Day should be the ones that pay 14 the penalty for views that are -- are disparate here in the 15 community. So, I just urge the Commissioners to do some 16 more reflecting upon this, and to make a decision that will 17 be a decision that will be equitable in the way it treats 18 all political points of view in this county, and that will 19 not penalize unjustly the Market Day people. I would ask 20 one other thing. Do you plan to meet with the Market Day 21 people to discuss this? Do you plan to have a further 22 discussion where you will establish a -- a policy, perhaps? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, we're not in a -- we're 24 not in a position to respond, since this is not an agenda 25 item, to go into a discussion of those issues. 9-27-04 12 1 MR. HATCHETT: Okay. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Only thing I would mention is 3 that the contract is annually renewable, so, obviously, at 4 -- at the time that contract comes under consideration, 5 there will be whatever discussions are appropriate at the 6 time. 7 MR. HATCHETT: All right. Thank you. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Hatchett. We 9 appreciate you being here. Is there any other member of the 10 public that wishes to be heard on a matter that's not listed 11 on the agenda? 12 MR. MOCK: My name's Tom Mock. I'm the Kerr 13 County Republican Chair. I'm here just mainly to get a 14 clarification on what we were told at the onset of the 15 Judge's term, that politics on the grounds itself would now 16 be curbed. I was also erroneously informed that this would 17 be an agenda item. I apologize; I should have checked into 18 it. But, somewhere along the line, I would like to have an 19 absolute clarification. I have nothing to do with the -- 20 the peddlers or the peddlers market. Just for my own 21 edification, and for that of the party. Thank you much, 22 gentlemen. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Mock. Is there 24 any other member of the public that wishes to be heard on 25 this or any other item? For informational purposes, there 9-27-04 13 1 is an official policy concerning the use of the courthouse 2 facilities and grounds. It's part of the official 3 Commissioners Court records; it's available from the County 4 Clerk. You're free to examine it or obtain a copy of it 5 there. Being no other member of the public wishing to be 6 heard on items not listed on the agenda, Commissioner 4, 7 what have you got for us this morning? 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, first, I'm 9 going to have to confess that I was ignorant of any policy 10 that prohibited political activity at the people's 11 courthouse, and I'm guilty of engaging in political 12 conversations and campaigning here. I can't think of a more 13 appropriate place than the people's courthouse to do that. 14 Moving on to more mundane things, I want to report that 15 TexDOT has been working out in Precinct 4 and getting a 16 couple of important things accomplished for us. One, they 17 have cut back the dangerous intersection there at Rachel 18 Lane and Highway 27, and significantly improved the safety 19 there, and I -- I am very grateful for them pushing that 20 project ahead. They did it on sort of an ad hoc basis 21 without any budgeted funding for it. And, second, 22 they're in short order going to be able to install warning 23 lights at the Hunt Fire Department. That'll be 24 remote-controlled. Some of you know that that's on a -- on 25 a curve, a blind curve, and that's a pretty dangerous 9-27-04 14 1 situation. So, that's going to be a benefit to the people 2 in Hunt and Hunt Fire Department. That's all I have. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: One? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Nothing, other than 5 the -- the contract with Market Days, I think, is -- comes 6 up December the 13th, if my memory serves me, and we'll 7 probably address all those issues at that time. The -- as 8 far as the policy is concerned, it's recently adopted, and I 9 think it was a 4-0 vote, even though Number 4 has decided 10 this morning that he's not in favor of it. It's in place 11 and, you know, if it's -- if it's a bad policy, we need to 12 go revisit the thing. And, you know, I somewhat agree that 13 some things should be done here at the courthouse, but, 14 however, that policy is in place, and if we need to revisit, 15 it, we will. Tivy fight never dies. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner 2? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think enough's been 18 said about that issue, so we'll -- we'll let that drift 19 until December, and it will get picked up at that time. I 20 think everybody recalls the tragic death of a Center Point 21 person on the July 4th weekend at the Government Crossing 22 bridge. It was an accident that almost claimed three lives, 23 but did, in fact, claim one. Subsequent to that, we did a 24 little research about what takes place at that Government 25 Crossing, how frequently there have been accidents, and 9-27-04 15 1 there have been a number of them. And, in looking into it, 2 I find there have been a large number. And, as a matter of 3 fact, within the two-week period before and -- and leading 4 up to the tragic incident on July 4th weekend, I think there 5 was something like eight persons who were involved in 6 accidents at the Government Crossing bridge, which is in 7 Center Point, for those of you who don't -- do not know. 8 And, of course, one -- resulted in at least one death. All 9 of which is to say that I'm going to try to figure out a way 10 to talk to the Texas Department of Public Safety -- Texas 11 Department of Transportation people with respect to maybe 12 putting that crossing into their long-range plan. I believe 13 that's an off-system bridge, and I think the long-range plan 14 should include some reworking of that bridge to raise it, 15 similar to what they're going to do at Hermann Sons, because 16 that bridge has been destroyed, and similar to what they did 17 at G Street. So, maybe the end result over time would be 18 that we would lessen the opportunity for tragic accidents to 19 occur. Other than that, the Hill Country Junior District 20 Livestock show fundraiser was last Saturday night, and a fun 21 time was had by all. It was a good one. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the only comment 23 I have this morning is going back to a brief comment on the 24 Market Days, and I guess -- there seems to be a big 25 misconception of the concern the Court had. One, there is a 9-27-04 16 1 policy, and we can certainly, as Commissioner 1 said, 2 readdress that at any time. And -- but the reason for the 3 policy which prohibits activities on the courthouse square 4 and in the courthouse is more a -- a budget concern. It has 5 nothing to do with free speech. It's more that there's a 6 cost to the County, to the taxpayers, if we have rallies and 7 things on the courthouse square, signs are left and things 8 of that nature. So, it's really a budgetary consideration 9 that I'm -- when I voted on that, but that can always be 10 looked at. The issue with Market Days isn't -- is more an 11 issue as to what the purpose of Market Days was, what our 12 discussions have been with the Market Days folks, and that 13 license agreement that they're -- they basically have use of 14 that courthouse during those specified dates. So, there's 15 some legal issues as to what -- you know, as to the 16 licensing part of it and what they do. There's also 17 concerns as to what the intent of Market Days is. If we 18 need -- if we need to have a Market Days open -- I mean, for 19 political events, that's different than selling fresh 20 produce. It can do both, but that's not the intent of what 21 the Court had originally, so I think Commissioner Baldwin's 22 idea that we discuss that when the lease comes up -- or 23 license comes up for renewal in December is appropriate. 24 But I don't think there's any intent by anyone on this Court 25 to -- certainly by myself -- for any free speech 9-27-04 17 1 limitations. It's more about what the purpose of Market 2 Days is. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: That all? Thank you. Back to 4 the Youth Exhibit facility, a good time was had by all, as 5 Commissioner Williams said. A better time was had by some, 6 particularly Commissioner Williams, but I'll -- I'll let him 7 tell you that story. On the down side of that function, 8 there was considerable consternation of the -- of the 9 climate control out there at that event. The A/C did not 10 seem to be working too well. I did hear one citizen 11 comment, "Well, at least it's not raining," or we'd be 12 receiving leaks from the holes in the roof on the inside. 13 So I guess, you know, with every bit of salt there's a 14 little bit of sugar. But I think it merely calls to 15 attention the -- the need for us to go forward and do 16 something to put that facility in a more usable situation, 17 and one that we can comfortably and -- and -- use, and with 18 some degree of safety, and not be worrying about whether or 19 not the roof's going to leak. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, about how many 21 people did we have out there? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Probably about 400, 23 probably. 24 AUDIENCE: Four or five hundred. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, there was quite a number 9-27-04 18 1 of folks. They -- I think they sell 330 tickets, and those 2 are for -- that admits two people. And then, of course, you 3 had a number -- number of other folks there, so it could 4 easily have been 400 to 500. But it was a good event, 5 and -- and would have been a bit more enjoyable if the 6 climate would have been a little bit better. But hopefully 7 we'll get there. We need to move right into the agenda. We 8 have a number of timed items that we're already running 9 behind. The first item on the agenda concerns a report from 10 the financial adviser -- Kerr County financial adviser 11 regarding the Juvenile Detention Facility. But, before -- 12 before we get there, I note that we have some -- some 13 participation forms that have been filed with us concerning 14 this matter. The first one filed was Mr. Kaighin Watts, 15 having an interest in that facility. If -- if you'll give 16 us whatever comments you desire, Mr. Watts? 17 MR. WATTS: One more document I need to get 18 up here. My name's Kaighin Watts; I'm from San Antonio. 19 I'm here representing myself. The purpose of it is, I've 20 been in the business of selling municipal bonds for 32 years 21 here in Texas, and I sold some of the Hill Country Juvenile 22 Facility Corporation bonds. In 1997, Commissioners Court 23 made a commitment, through the Kerr County Juvenile Board, 24 which consists of two District Judges and the County Judge, 25 to buy the facility. In doing so, you took on a mortgage of 9-27-04 19 1 $2.9 million that had a debt service of $336,000 a year. 2 Well, in 2002, that Juvenile Board decided to expand the 3 facility. In order to do that, they created a public 4 facilities corporation. And I quote from your audited 5 financial statements, "Due to the restrictions of the State 6 Constitution relating to the issuance of municipal debt, the 7 Kerr County Juvenile Board created the public facilities 8 corporation to finance the acquisition of the Juvenile 9 Detention Center. This was accomplished by assuming the 10 existing mortgage on the property. The above service 11 provided by the public facilities corporation is solely for 12 the benefit of Kerr County and the Kerr County Juvenile 13 Board." 14 The only activity that the Hill Country 15 Juvenile Facility Corporation has was to accomplish the 16 purchase of the outstanding mortgage, and they did that by 17 issuing 5.14 million -- $5,140,000 in bonds. At the time 18 that this was done, the debt on that first mortgage was paid 19 down to $1,914,000. In addition to that, they wanted to 20 expand the facility to house 75 residents, so $2,600,000 of 21 the bond proceeds were used to do that. Now, how did you 22 get that done? Well, you got that done by, number one, 23 giving a first lien mortgage to the trustee that represents 24 the bondholders. The other thing you did was you entered 25 into an annual lease agreement with the corporation to make 9-27-04 20 1 annual debt service payments in the tune of roughly 2 $412,000, and those debt service payments were to be done by 3 annual appropriations in the budget process as long as the 4 bonds were outstanding. That's what this document says in 5 the first two or three pages. And the balance of the 6 document goes into all the legalese of why nobody is 7 responsible for anything; Kerr County, the financial 8 adviser, the underwriter, even the trustee for the 9 bondholders. 10 Now, what happens if you -- by the way, the 11 bonds got an A-1 rating by Standard and Poor's. Now, what 12 happens if you don't appropriate this annual debt service? 13 And so far, from my review, it appears to me that the County 14 has not had to put up any money at all to run this facility. 15 If you don't appropriate the money, then I think immediately 16 what's going to happen, in my opinion -- and this is just my 17 opinion -- Standard and Poor's is going to rate the bonds 18 that are outstanding, going to rate them to junk. But, more 19 important than that, what happens is that I -- and 20 Mr. Henderson will be able to correct me on this if I'm 21 wrong. In any future bond sale that the County attempts to 22 sell, there will be an item in there, a paragraph called 23 "material events," and it'll fully explain why the County 24 willingly walked away from an obligation. Now, what that's 25 going to cost the County down the road, who knows? 9-27-04 21 1 There are people in this state, investors 2 that buy tax-exempt bonds, that will not buy credits where 3 counties, school districts, cities defaulted in the '30's 4 'cause of the depression, and those were cases where people 5 could not pay. They didn't have the resources to pay. As 6 soon as they had the resources to pay, they paid those 7 debts. I can't think of a single case in the 32 years I've 8 been in this business in this state where you have had a 9 county that has a low tax rate, very little in debt, a large 10 population, a large land area, that has willingly walked 11 away from a debt. Just never happens. The whole system 12 is -- the whole system is built on good faith. Our whole 13 financial system is. It's kind of like when you cosign a 14 loan for your son; if they can't pay, you're going to pick 15 it up. 16 Now, this deal is about, what, 22 months old. 17 And, yeah, there's some hard times, but I think there's some 18 solutions to the problem. Those solutions I don't believe 19 will cost the taxpayers to suffer through a higher tax rate 20 at this time, but what it will cost is future opportunity 21 costs. Right now, the way Kerr County's debt is structured 22 is that, by 2012, you're out of any bonded indebtedness. As 23 a matter of fact, in 2006, your bonded indebtedness starts 24 going down dramatically. So, what it costs you if you can't 25 get this deal worked out is future opportunity costs. Now, 9-27-04 22 1 if you appropriate the money, then that gives you an 2 opportunity to work through -- to work through the problems 3 with the Juvenile Detention Facility. But fact of the 4 matter is, the Commissioners Court authorized the Juvenile 5 Board to do all this. I don't see how -- how you really get 6 around -- even though, yeah, in the prospectus, you can look 7 through there and say you do not have to appropriate. Yeah, 8 that's in there. But the intent of that is not to have you 9 guys willingly walk away from that debt. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You through? 11 MR. WATTS: I'm -- just about. I'm looking 12 to see if I've overlooked anything. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 14 MR. WATTS: Pretty well covered it. Thank 15 you, gentlemen, for listening to me. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you for being here 17 today, sir. Mr. Bill Stacy. 18 MR. STACY: Gentlemen, I'm Bill Stacy. I was 19 County Judge when all this started, and all I can say is, I 20 told you so. When we were asked to kiss those bonds, the 21 problem started. It all came back to having confidence in 22 Recor, and Recor was the problem. Now, I can tell you why 23 that didn't work, 'cause I saw it and knew it wasn't going 24 to work, but I was outvoted. But, you know, I come up with 25 what will be the solution. This gentleman spoke very 9-27-04 23 1 eloquently, and we have to protect the tax and the County 2 integrity of future bond issues. At one time in my life I 3 was a bond salesman, so I know what he's talking about. 4 However, my suggestion to the Court -- this should not have 5 been a separate corporation. That facility should be part 6 of the assets as well as the liabilities of the County. Do 7 that. 8 Secondly, you're going to have to change the 9 people on that board. With all due respect, lawyers are not 10 businessmen, and there are three lawyers on that board. 11 There's only one lawyer on there that has the real 12 responsibility, and that's the County Judge, and he hears 13 the probation of the -- of the kids. I have been in those 14 shoes; I know what he's talking about. The County 15 Commissioners should put two hard-nosed businessmen instead 16 of those other two District Judges on there. I had to work 17 with those District Judges, and I think it would be -- the 18 County would be better off if there were two businessmen 19 instead of those two judges. Why those judges got on there, 20 I don't know, but they shouldn't be there. It's a business 21 decision. The County Judge should be a more -- more of a 22 businessman, 'cause he has to deal with the money. And even 23 if you have that, and you have -- and I know a name of -- 24 several names of some good businessmen, and you know them 25 too, that should be on that board to help out, because those 9-27-04 24 1 salaries were out of line. The expenses were out of line. 2 I had a member of my family who worked out there, so I do 3 have some insight as to what was going on. 4 Now, I know that I'm considered a dinosaur in 5 this community, 'cause I've been around. I've been with 6 this lady when the democrats controlled this county and they 7 made the decisions of Commissioners Court. But we didn't, 8 in those days, incidentally, have any -- any political 9 campaigning on the courthouse. We did use it for federal 10 employees, like Senator Benson came here and Senator Graham 11 came here. So, gentlemen, that's what you can do to solve 12 this problem. And I hope that you take my advice, 'cause 13 I've been there; I walked in those moccasins, and that's how 14 you solve the problem so that the County credit is good down 15 the road. Thank you. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. 17 Mr. Henderson? 18 MR. HENDERSON: Thank you, Judge and members 19 of the Court. For the record, my name's Robert Henderson. 20 I'm the manager of R.B.C. Dain Rauscher. We have the honor 21 of being the financial adviser to Kerr County, and as 22 Mr. Watts pointed out, we were also the financial adviser to 23 the Hill Country Facilities Development Corporation when the 24 financing was done in 2002. The agenda calls for me to make 25 a report on the juvenile facility. I'm not sure exactly 9-27-04 25 1 what form the Commissioners Court expect that report to 2 take. It has been my understanding that I was to address 3 the Court on the issue of what would be the impact or the 4 consequences of the Court choosing to not appropriate for 5 the debt, and alternatively, to choose to appropriate for 6 the debt. Based on some newspaper articles that have come 7 out, it seemed that there may also be some legal questions 8 involved in addition to the finance questions relating to 9 the bond rating of the county, and therefore, I took it upon 10 myself to ask Mr. Spurgeon of the bond counsel firm, McCall 11 Parkhurst, and Horton, bond counsel to the Hill Country 12 Facilities Development Corporation, to also be here in order 13 that me might address any legal questions. 14 At the request of the County Judge, I did 15 write a letter -- I guess it's been about 10 days ago -- to 16 the Commissioners Court addressing the potential 17 consequences of a nonappropriation on this lease by the 18 rating agency, Standard and Poor's, which had rated the 19 bonds back in 2002 when they were issued. I have had -- 20 gosh, at least three lengthy conversations with Alex Frazier 21 of Standard and Poor's Dallas office, who is the regional 22 manager for this several-state area, as well as the 23 individual who actually rated the bonds. They have made it 24 very clear that it -- despite the language in the official 25 statement, they do consider this to be a moral obligation of 9-27-04 26 1 Kerr County, and that if the County fails to appropriate for 2 this debt, that they would take action against the County's 3 tax-secured bond rating, which is currently A. The Hill 4 Country Facilities Development Corporation bonds were rated 5 A-minus, based largely on the fact those were lease revenue 6 bonds, annual appropriation lease revenue bonds. The 7 County's current underlying tax-secured bond rating is A. 8 Mr. Frazier has indicated that he would expect that rating 9 to fall to the minimum investment-grade rating of triple-B. 10 He also cited a couple of examples that he thought were 11 similar in circumstances and nature to this; a county out in 12 Florida, as well as a county in Washington state. 13 The question has since come up, what would 14 happen if the County did appropriate for this lease? And I 15 think that that is -- is really a twofold question. I think 16 that the appropriation for the lease payments themselves, as 17 was pointed out earlier, which would be about $412,000 per 18 year, would have about a 1.7 cent tax rate impact to Kerr 19 County. And I think that the Commissioners Court could 20 choose to appropriate for the lease and -- or -- and/or 21 issue Certificates of Obligation or some other tax-secured 22 debt in order to -- to acquire the facility and have even a 23 lower tax rate impact, and that they could do that without 24 having a negative impact on the County's bond ratings. 25 However, another aspect of appropriating could be to not 9-27-04 27 1 only appropriate for this debt, but also -- also to 2 appropriate to support the -- the negative cash flow 3 operations of the Juvenile Detention Facility. As you know, 4 the Juvenile Detention Facility Board -- or the Juvenile 5 Board has adopted an operating budget that projects a 6 $173,000 operating deficit. 7 It is clear, based on the conversations that 8 I've had with Mr. Tomlinson, the County Auditor, and 9 conversations I've had with operators of other juvenile 10 detention facilities across the state, many of which are in 11 similar financial condition to this one because of the 12 events surrounding changes in categorizations of ratings by 13 the State, as well as some actions by a nonprofit 14 corporation, that even that budget of -- of negative 15 operating result of $173,000 is most likely optimistic, and 16 that there will probably be substantially larger losses than 17 that. If the County were to adopt the posture that it was 18 going to not only appropriate for the debt, but to also 19 appropriate or support the operations of the Juvenile 20 Detention Facility, that would create a -- a new and 21 uncertain and unexpected strain on the General Fund budget, 22 and in visiting with representatives of Standard and Poor's, 23 could likely also result in a downgrading of the County's 24 bond ratings. It would not fall from an A to -- to the 25 triple-B rating that Standard and Poor's are currently 9-27-04 28 1 suggesting. 2 And I want to use that term carefully, as 3 Mr. Frazier used the term carefully. The rating committee 4 has not met at Standard and Poor's to decide how it's going 5 to handle this issue or the issue of several other entities 6 in like circumstances, but rather than from A to a triple-B, 7 possibly see the tax-secured rating fall from an A to maybe 8 an A-minus or a triple-B-plus, all of which would be the 9 result of determination of the rating committee of Standard 10 and Poor's. So, I -- that's what I was asked to discuss. 11 If there's any other aspect of this -- of this issue anyone 12 would like me to address, I'll be happy to. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a question, 14 Mr. Henderson. 15 MR. HENDERSON: Yes, sir? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Gets back to one of 17 your earlier comments -- I have a couple questions. 18 MR. HENDERSON: Yes, sir. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Gets back to one of 20 your earlier comments, and one of the comments that the 21 gentleman who spoke before with respect to the obligation of 22 the County. As I read the official statement, early on in 23 the statement, it warns bond owners by citing that the 24 purchase of the bonds involves a degree of risk, and -- and 25 provides language for the bond purchasers to "caveat 9-27-04 29 1 emptor." Buyer beware, so to speak. 2 MR. HENDERSON: Yes, sir. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But it goes on to say 4 in that particular paragraph that the bonds do not 5 constitute an obligation, either special, general, or moral, 6 of the County, the State of Texas, or any other political 7 subdivision or agency thereof. How does that square with 8 your comments? 9 MR. HENDERSON: Well, I think that it squares 10 with my comments in -- in the fact that the Commissioners 11 Court does have the legal right to decide whether to 12 appropriate or not to appropriate, and it clearly puts the 13 bondholders on notice that the Commissioners Court has 14 reserved that legal right. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second part of the 16 question would be, under bond owner risks, it talks about 17 under the operating agreement, the Juvenile Board has 18 undertaken to operate the project to be financed with the 19 proceeds of the bonds, and has assumed the County's 20 obligation to make the lease payments. How does that square 21 with your comments? 22 MR. HENDERSON: Well, you know, I've got 23 Mr. Spurgeon here from the law firm, and I think he'd 24 probably be better suited to address the legal questions. 25 But -- but, again, Commissioner, I think that it -- it 9-27-04 30 1 references the County's reservation -- the right to not 2 appropriate, and put the bondholders on notice that -- that 3 the revenues to be derived for the payment of this debt and 4 the operating expenses of the facility are subject to annual 5 appropriation. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Before we hear from 7 Mr. Spurgeon, while you still have the podium -- 8 MR. HENDERSON: Yes, sir? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- I want to ask 10 about, if the County were to appropriate and, in effect, 11 guarantee the -- the '04 -- I guess it's the '04 payment. 12 Or is it the '05 payment? 13 MR. HENDERSON: It would be the -- well, the 14 payments that would fall in the year '04-'05, which would be 15 the February 15th, '05 and August 15th, '05 payments. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: '04-'05, okay. 17 MR. HENDERSON: Budget year, yes, sir. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And, in addition to 19 that -- if we were to appropriate, in addition to that, the 20 trustee still holds, am I correct, a significant amount of 21 money which would be equivalent to a bond debt reduction and 22 interest payment? Is that correct? 23 MR. HENDERSON: Yes, sir. The bondholders -- 24 the trustee holds one year's annual debt service in reserve. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, the reality is, 9-27-04 31 1 if Kerr County did not appropriate the dollars right now, 2 the trustee holds sufficient to make the next interest and 3 principal payment? 4 MR. HENDERSON: The next two principal and 5 interest payments. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 7 MR. HENDERSON: I should say the next 8 principal and interest payment, and then the following 9 interest payment. The next two semiannual payments would be 10 made. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which suggests to me 12 that there would be a possibility during that time frame -- 13 this is what I want to you respond to. 14 MR. HENDERSON: Yes, sir. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That some debt could 16 be restructured. My question then gets down to whether or 17 not it is -- would be appropriate for the facilities 18 corporation, who is the owner of the facility, not Kerr 19 County, as such, if they were to try to restructure the debt 20 and use low floaters, and cap those low floaters, cap that 21 rate by purchasing whatever it is you do to cap a rate, is 22 that a possibility? 23 MR. HENDERSON: It is a possibility, yes, 24 sir. Well, let me think about that for a second. It -- is 25 it possible the Hill Country Juvenile Detention Facility 9-27-04 32 1 could do it? I think, given the -- the current 2 circumstances, which is that the primary security of the 3 Hill Country Juvenile Detention Facilities Corporation has 4 been this annual appropriation lease from the County, if the 5 County were to not appropriate, I think that would put 6 notice to the bondholders that source of revenues is no 7 longer available. And, therefore, I think the corporation 8 would find it difficult to do any sort of restructuring. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, let me come at 10 it from a different angle, then. 11 MR. HENDERSON: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What if the County 13 were to work it out with the facilities corporation to take 14 over the ownership of the facility, and given -- and 15 appropriate the funds, and in the period of time that would 16 be required from appropriation to the time of actually 17 making the payment. Could we restructure that debt so as 18 not to have to use the $412,000 of taxpayer money that was 19 being appropriated? And unexpectedly, I might add. 20 MR. HENDERSON: Well, I guess a better way 21 for me to answer that, Commissioner, would be that -- that 22 we are not experts in the operations of juvenile detention 23 facilities. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Neither am I. 25 MR. HENDERSON: And what I think you would -- 9-27-04 33 1 you are suggesting, to suggest there would be a way to 2 restructure this where there would be no taxpayer support 3 from Kerr County would be to suggest that the operations of 4 that facility could be effectively turned around from a 5 budgeted loss of $173,000 to a gain of something in the 6 neighborhood of $350,000, $400,000, whatever the debt 7 service would be after a restructuring, and we are not in a 8 position to opine as to whether or not the -- the financial 9 operating results of that facility could be turned around to 10 that degree. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's not exactly 12 the thrust of my question. 13 MR. HENDERSON: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The thrust of my 15 question was, if we were to appropriate those dollars in our 16 budget -- 17 MR. HENDERSON: Mm-hmm. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- prior to actually 19 spending those dollars. 20 MR. HENDERSON: Mm-hmm. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which is the '04-'05 22 payments of debt service and interest. 23 MR. HENDERSON: Yes, sir. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you believe it 25 would be possible to restructure the debt in that period of 9-27-04 34 1 time so as to bring the debt service payment down to 2 something more acceptable and more realistic, so that 3 perhaps we could meet those debt service payments if the 4 facility comes back? That's the thrust of my question. 5 MR. HENDERSON: I want to make sure that I'm 6 clear. Make the debt service payments if the facility comes 7 back out of the operations of the facility, or out of 8 taxpayer funds? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, if we were to 10 take over the corporation, I guess that would be academic. 11 MR. HENDERSON: Well, let me try and answer 12 it this way, 'cause I -- I'll have to admit, I'm not a 13 hundred percent clear on the question. I think that the -- 14 the -- Kerr County certainly has the -- the financial 15 capacity and the financing latitude to adopt any number of 16 financing techniques in taking over this facility. It could 17 issue tax-secured debt, and that debt could be issued on a 18 floating rate basis or some other mode, and the County would 19 have the financial ability to do that. I don't believe 20 that, without County support, the -- the financial condition 21 of the corporation itself would -- would be such that we 22 could entice buyers to buy and restructure a debt program. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Unless we 24 appropriated money up front. 25 MR. HENDERSON: Well, I think that the 9-27-04 35 1 problem that we're going to have is that, if we 2 appropriate -- if we adopt a strategy or a financing 3 technique that continues to require annual appropriations, 4 it would be my expectation that we're going to have a very 5 difficult time getting anyone to buy that. I think -- I 6 think that for this to -- to get restructured effectively, I 7 think we would have to convert from an annual appropriation 8 type financing vehicle to a continuing ad valorem property 9 tax pledge type vehicle. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 11 MR. HENDERSON: And let me expound on that to 12 say, it's not just because of the circumstances here at Kerr 13 County. There are a number of facilities all across the 14 state that, for the same reasons that you're having this 15 occur here in Kerr County, these other facilities across the 16 state are having that. So, there are -- there are a number 17 of bondholders of debt related to these other facilities 18 that are facing the potential of -- of a loss of a portion 19 of their investment. So, the whole market for lease revenue 20 bonds secured by the operations of juvenile detention 21 facilities has virtually gone away. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I didn't think Kerr 23 County was in this boat by itself. 24 MR. HENDERSON: It is not in this boat by 25 itself. 9-27-04 36 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Henderson, are you 3 familiar with other counties that have been in similar 4 situations, where the facilities corporation which issued 5 bonds secured by lease revenue bonds from the County that 6 went into default, as it were, or failed to make annual 7 appropriation or otherwise pay the operating costs, in which 8 there was subsequent action taken by -- by the bond rating 9 agency or agencies, and there were subsequent debt issues 10 from that county, and the effect on those debt issues? 11 MR. HENDERSON: Yes, sir. As a matter of 12 fact, I -- my firm underwrote such a debt for a county in 13 those set of circumstances. I'm referring specifically to 14 Hays County, which operates a juvenile detention facility up 15 in San Marcos, and last year they found themselves in a 16 situation with the juvenile detention facility corporation 17 that was there that the operating revenues were insufficient 18 to meet debt service. The Commissioners Court there chose 19 to not appropriate. In that instance, it was rather a 20 curious set of circumstances, in that that particular bond 21 transaction had two different rating agencies involved, 22 Standard and Poor's, which is the rating agency involved 23 with the Hill Country Facilities Corporation, and Moody's. 24 And when the Commissioners Court chose in Hays County to not 25 appropriate, Standard and Poor's did lower Hays County's 9-27-04 37 1 bond rating down to the minimum investment grade rating 2 immediately. Moody's did not lower their bond rating. And 3 the difference being that Moody's interpretation of the 4 documents were to understand that Hays County did not -- not 5 only -- not only did not have a continuing ad valorem 6 property tax pledge behind that debt, but did not also have 7 a moral obligation behind that debt. So, in recognizing 8 that, Moody's did not lower the bond rating of Hays County. 9 Standard and Poor's did. 10 Now, in this particular case, Standard and 11 Poor's is the only entity that rated these bonds, and 12 they're threatening to do that; that is, to lower the bond 13 rating down to low investment grade rating. Subsequent -- 14 subsequent to that event, citizens in Hays County voted some 15 $30 million in general obligation tax bonds, and the County 16 undertook this last spring to issue $15 million of those 17 voted bonds. And in visiting with the rating agencies and 18 insurance companies about that tax-secured transaction, Hays 19 County was able to secure municipal bond insurance -- excuse 20 me -- taking their rating to a full triple-A, and the -- and 21 the bonds were marketable in the private capital markets. I 22 will say that the -- the insurance premium, because of the 23 confusion surrounding the circumstances of the juvenile 24 facility corporation over there, was higher than normal. As 25 opposed to paying something in the neighborhood of $75,000 9-27-04 38 1 to $80,000 for that municipal bond insurance policy, it's my 2 understanding the Commissioners Court ended up paying 3 something over $100,000, about $25,000 or $30,000, or, in 4 other words, about 35 percent more for that insurance 5 premium than -- than likely would have been the case had it 6 not been for the difficulties of the corporation. However, 7 once the insurance premium was paid and a triple-A bond 8 insurance was put in place, the interest rate penalty by the 9 County on that -- on that $15 million in tax-secured debt 10 was -- was non-quantifiable. There was none. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: So there was no adverse effect 12 on their -- on their costs, other than the increased bond 13 insurance? 14 MR. HENDERSON: There was to adverse -- there 15 was no adverse effect on the interest rates. I think there 16 was an adverse effect on the insurance premium they had to 17 get them to a triple-A bond rating. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mr. Henderson, how 19 many years have you done business with Kerr County? 20 MR. HENDERSON: Oh, gosh. I'm not sure if -- 21 if Judge Stacy was -- was on the Court, or was I -- was I 22 there before you, Judge Stacy? 23 MR. STACY: We put you there. 24 MR. HENDERSON: Okay. So I would say that 25 I've been in San Antonio and working in Kerr County with the 9-27-04 39 1 City -- see, actually, I think earlier than that, even. I 2 had been calling on the counties since the mid-1980's. I 3 think early '90's is when we first actually did a bond 4 transaction, but I had been working with the County prior to 5 that. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You worked for this 7 County about 17 years ago when I was on this Commissioners 8 Court. 9 MR. HENDERSON: That would be correct. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I remember you well, 11 and you've done a good job. Actually, I'm not going to -- 12 I'm going to look at you as I talk, but I'm really talking 13 to the public of Kerr County, 'cause I want them to 14 understand that in the beginning, when this corporation was 15 set up and the leadership here approached this Commissioners 16 Court, we were assured that there was no liability to the 17 Commissioners Court or the taxpayers of this county on 18 several occasions. And I can go back and dig the minutes up 19 to -- to prove that point. So, all these years I've been 20 thinking, you know, that corporation's out there; they're 21 running that thing. That's their business. The taxpayers 22 don't have a hand in this at all. Now, there's -- come this 23 morning, there's been a couple little jabs here that, "You 24 Commissioners Court, if you don't pick this thing up, you're 25 going to..." dah, dah, dah, dah. Well, as the Democratic 9-27-04 40 1 party came in this morning, that -- that's a bit offensive 2 to me. 3 My point is, I recently read in the -- in the 4 newspaper about a County official saying that the sinking 5 ship set sail about September 2003. That's a year ago. And 6 this Commissioners Court, in the eleventh hour, is hearing 7 about it, that that is -- there's problems, and suddenly at 8 the tail end of our budget process this year, I mean, look; 9 this courtroom is full of people. Full of probably -- 10 there's probably a lawyer or two in here -- it wouldn't 11 surprise me -- screaming that we've got to do something. 12 Well, it's not this Commissioners Court. I just wanted the 13 public to understand, it's not this Commissioners Court 14 that's brought this problem to this stage. You know, the -- 15 the folks that have been managing it and running that 16 facility out there, they need to be accountable, not this 17 Commissioners Court. And thank you. 18 MR. HENDERSON: Well, I just stood here, but 19 I'll say you're welcome anyway. Since you -- you've brought 20 up history, let me kind of recap, if I might, a little bit 21 of the history here. I have been working with the 22 Commissioners Court since the mid or early 1980's, when this 23 transaction was originally done, which, as the County's 24 financial adviser, I didn't even know it was being done, and 25 nor did Mr. Spurgeon from -- from the law firm that's 9-27-04 41 1 represented the County for many years as bond counsel. An 2 outfit called Recor, as Judge Stacy recounted a moment ago, 3 came in and -- and made certain representations as to the 4 way that system would work. I did not even hear about it 5 until the original transaction was already completely done. 6 That -- I think that was done in '94, was it not, Judge? 7 MR. STACY: Somewhere along that -- 8 MR. HENDERSON: Somewhere in 1994. Then in 9 1997, after Recor ran into some difficulties, the 10 Commissioners Court then facilitated a -- the creation of a 11 corporation to take the ownership over from Recor, who was 12 acting as trustee. Now, in those -- both of those instances 13 -- and neither my firm nor Mr. Spurgeon's firm was involved 14 in that, but in both of those situations, the Recor 15 financing as well as the financing that was done in 1997 had 16 exactly the same structure that was in place in 2002, when 17 we were asked to come in and assist the County in raising 18 additional funds, and that was to say there was no 19 continuing ad valorem obligation of the County. All that 20 was involved was a lease from the County to the Juvenile 21 Facility Corporation. So, when we did the restructuring in 22 2002, the structure was in no way changed. It was exactly 23 the same legal structure that had been in place when Recor 24 did the transaction originally in '94, and then when it was 25 converted again in 1997. All that was done was to create a 9-27-04 42 1 new corporation in order to effect the technicality of a 2 transfer of ownership from one to the other, but the -- the 3 financing structure behind it remained the same. A 4 continuing ad valorem -- I'm sorry, a continuing -- that's 5 not even -- "continuing" is not even correct. An annual 6 appropriation lease revenue bond structure. So, the same 7 structure was used in all of those -- those instances. 8 Now, with respect to -- to your comments, 9 Commissioner, about the operators of that facility being 10 held accountable, that certainly makes sense and is logical 11 and rational. What I would say is that, as I've explained 12 to -- to Alex Frazier, that what differentiates this 13 situation from the Spokane County, Washington example that 14 Mr. Frazier cited was that this is not a situation where 15 we've got individual management problems at this facility; 16 that there's -- there's not been gross mismanagement. 17 There's not been gross negligence that I'm, at least, aware 18 of. There's not been any fraud or embezzlement or anything 19 like that. That what's happened here has been the effect of 20 two things, that I'm aware of; the -- the changing of the 21 sentencing patterns of judges handling juvenile detention 22 cases as a result of some actions by a nonprofit corporation 23 who -- which portends to -- to champion the legal, civil, 24 and mental rights of -- of detainees, and also a -- a 25 recategorization of juvenile detained -- detainees from the 9-27-04 43 1 State, which had the practical effect of lowering the 2 reimbursement some 20 percent. Those two facts have 3 negatively impacted the operations of a dozen facilities 4 across the state, not simply Kerr County. 5 And my point to -- to Mr. Frazier is, you've 6 got a situation here where this is not a single county 7 reacting to local circumstances, choosing to nonappropriate 8 for an essential governmental function. This is a situation 9 where -- you know, arguably, at least -- events completely 10 beyond the County's control and impacting the market on a 11 statewide basis has impacted negatively the operations of a 12 dozen facilities, of which Kerr County happens to be only 13 one. So, while I would, you know, not disagree with you 14 that we need to look to the operators of the facility for -- 15 for what's -- what's occurring, I think, in all fairness, we 16 have to recognize that there are some things that were 17 happening that were outside of the control of the local 18 operators of the facility at the same time. 19 And then, finally, I would remark -- I did 20 read the newspaper article where a county official was cited 21 this as being a sinking ship. I wasn't in Austin when that 22 comment was made, and I can't attest to the accuracy of the 23 -- of the timing set out in the newspaper article. I would 24 say that it's my understanding that the impact of these two 25 events we just spoke of really came to bear not starting in 9-27-04 44 1 September -- I think September was probably the reference to 2 the current fiscal year -- but rather sometime in April. 3 March-April is when you really saw your -- your occupancy 4 levels start to decline and your revenues really start to 5 decline. So, I think that -- that while I'm sympathetic 6 with you, as well as myself, 'cause, to be perfectly honest 7 with you, Mr. Spurgeon and I didn't know about this problem 8 until very nearly the middle of August, I think the -- the 9 problem really has not been clear to -- to the managers of 10 the facility dating way back in September, but I think began 11 to become clear in March and April of this year. So, much 12 shorter time frame. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mr. Henderson, I have 15 a -- 16 MR. HENDERSON: You can't ever ask me a short 17 question, Buster. You know that. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- a couple of questions. 19 I guess -- and I can understand clearly that we have no 20 legal obligation to make this payment. What are the ratings 21 of the bonds for the juvenile facility? 22 MR. HENDERSON: The bond -- the juvenile 23 facility bonds are currently rated A-minus. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: A-minus? 25 MR. HENDERSON: Yes, sir. 9-27-04 45 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Would they have -- I 2 mean, it seems like a high rating for something that's 3 extremely high-risk. 4 MR. HENDERSON: Yes, sir. And I think the 5 Standard and Poor's, at this juncture, would agree with you. 6 And I don't say that tongue-in-cheek; please don't 7 misunderstand me. I think that -- I think that Standard and 8 Poor's is realizing after the fact that -- that they 9 probably did not consider as strongly as they should have 10 the bondholder risks that were enunciated, and -- and the 11 risk of nonappropriation, and -- and the clearly stated 12 position that these are neither direct obligations nor moral 13 obligations of the County. So, again, I don't say it 14 tongue-in-cheek. I think -- in hindsight, I think if the 15 Standard and Poor's had to do it over again, I think they 16 would take a different view of the security behind this 17 debt. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you think when they 19 gave that A-minus rating, that part of the reason was -- did 20 they look at the County's overall rating, or did they look 21 at these independently? 22 MR. HENDERSON: No, they did look at the 23 County's overall rating, and I think that rating report of 24 Standard and Poor's indicates that; that they felt like 25 that, because Kerr County was the -- the entity that was 9-27-04 46 1 executing this lease, and because of the strong financials 2 of Kerr County and their expectation that if there was any 3 difficulty, Kerr County would continue to appropriate 4 anyway, I think was behind their logic in offering that 5 rating. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: With that being said, 7 then, how can you also say that we have no moral obligation, 8 then? If the rating is based, by Standard and Poor's, on 9 Kerr County's, you know, stature and structure and -- and 10 financial situation, that -- how can you not say that 11 they're related? 12 MR. HENDERSON: Well, I -- I don't suggest 13 that they're not related. What I suggest is that -- again, 14 we're getting into legal aspects of this -- is that the 15 documents clearly stated that there was not going to be a 16 direct obligation of Kerr County, and that it would not be a 17 moral obligation of Kerr County, and that this -- the 18 bondholders were assuming the risk of nonappropriation. 19 Now, that -- that Standard and Poor's, in their business 20 judgment -- I hesitate to use the term "knowledge," but -- 21 but they did not -- that they did not give that structural 22 -- those structural facts as much weight, in hindsight, as 23 maybe they should have, is -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- if Kerr County was 25 to appropriate the funds for this year, does that bring any 9-27-04 47 1 obligation for doing anything in the '05-'06 year? Or is it 2 just like a one-time obligation, and it wouldn't mean 3 anything if we decided not to appropriate in the future 4 year? 5 MR. HENDERSON: Again, I think you're asking 6 for a legal opinion. I'll give you a layperson's opinion, 7 which is annual appropriation means annual appropriation. 8 And, therefore, I -- my laypersons's interpretation would be 9 that if you choose to appropriate this year, you still have 10 the right next budget year not to appropriate then. There 11 is one point I'd like to make on that issue, but I'll be 12 happy to answer any questions you might have before I do 13 that. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I guess my -- my 15 question is -- I go back to something Commissioner 1 said, 16 is that, you know, I'm really frustrated with the Juvenile 17 Board in this situation, the fact that they came to the 18 Commissioners Court as late as they did. The fact that they 19 didn't -- that you all didn't know till mid-August is, to 20 me, equally bad. And any -- I guess, you know, I look at 21 this in very simplistic terms. I'm not a bond person. I'm 22 not, you know, in banking, in finance, necessarily, all 23 that. I look at this as, necessarily, such as an individual 24 going bankrupt. Okay, if I was an individual going -- and I 25 was going to have to go bankrupt, I'd go to every creditor I 9-27-04 48 1 had and try to work something out. I don't think that's 2 happened. I haven't heard of it happening. No one -- 3 everyone seems to be kept in the dark until the eleventh 4 hour on this whole situation. So, I guess my question is, 5 is it customary or is it possible, even, for the Juvenile 6 Board to go to the holders of the bonds and say, "We're in 7 trouble; we need help"? 8 MR. HENDERSON: Well, I'm glad that you asked 9 that question, because that's exactly the point that I 10 wanted to get to. Before I can get to that, though, may I 11 address the issue about bankruptcy and so forth? You know, 12 I don't know what to say about that, other than continue to 13 repeat what we've repeated, which is when the bonds were 14 sold, the bondholders were clearly put on notice they were 15 subject to annual appropriation; that there was risk there, 16 and the County was disavowing any direct or moral obligation 17 with respect to that. So, it -- you know, one could argue 18 that the bondholders, who did get above-market yields for 19 this type of debt -- I mean, because of the risk involved, 20 they got paid a little higher interest rate than they would 21 have gotten paid had this been a tax-secured transaction 22 where their risk would have been lesser, so there should 23 have been an understanding of the business transaction. 24 That -- that may or may not be the case, based on some 25 conversations I've had, but -- but that should have been the 9-27-04 49 1 case. 2 But, to answer your question, is there a way 3 to go to the bondholders and negotiate this, I think that 4 there is. And -- and there are some important reasons why 5 we should do that, financial reasons why we should do that. 6 The Hill Country Facilities Development Corporation's bonds 7 has what we call a 10-year call feature in it, which means 8 that the bonds cannot be paid off in advance of their stated 9 maturity for a period of 10 years from -- from the date of 10 the issue of the bonds, although that's not exactly the -- 11 the thing. I think the first call date would be 12 February 15th, 2013. Now, what can happen is that, if this 13 Commissioners Court were to try to work out -- say you go to 14 another bank and work out a refinance. The financial costs 15 of doing that is directly impacted by technicalities such as 16 that call feature. 17 Another aspect of potentially working the 18 project out or working this thing out to everybody's benefit 19 is to convert the use of that facility to something other 20 than a juvenile detention facility, such as an adult 21 detention facility. But then you've got the problem of, do 22 you have the consent of the bondholders to convert the use 23 of the facility? Do you have the consent of the bondholders 24 to waive the call feature on the bonds? Which would allow 25 you to -- to refinance it without an extra penalty. And, in 9-27-04 50 1 this case, we calculated the negative arbitrage in an escrow 2 account to be about $400,000 if we couldn't get that -- that 3 call feature waived. 4 So, one positive aspect -- and I'm not 5 encouraging the Commissioners Court one way or the other; 6 I'm just trying to answer facts. But one positive aspect of 7 a nonappropriation is that what will -- what will happen is, 8 that will trigger a series of events whereby the 9 Commissioners Court gives formal notification to the trustee 10 of a nonappropriation, and that triggers the trustee to come 11 in and start acting on behalf of the bondholders. That's 12 their role as a trustee, to kind of speak with one voice on 13 behalf of the bondholders. As a practical matter, what the 14 trustee would do is create some sort of bondholders' 15 committee made up of, you know, a majority of the owners of 16 that debt. Once that happens, then you are in a position to 17 start talking to the bondholders, to say, "Is there a way to 18 resolve this situation?" Can we get bondholders' consent to 19 convert the use of this facility from what it is now to 20 something -- other facility, some other use? Can we get 21 permission to waive the call feature? 22 And I suspect that, at this juncture, that 23 the bondholders would be excited to say, yes, give us 100 24 percent of our money right away, and we'll waive the call 25 feature. That would make the potential sale of the facility 9-27-04 51 1 to a third-party much more effective. It would make the 2 ability of the County to issue a tax-secured debt to acquire 3 the facility much more effective. So, there are some 4 solutions to the problem, including a process by which this 5 Commissioners Court can still decide, as I think 6 Commissioner Williams was suggesting, six months down the 7 road or nine months down the road, that there is a way to 8 salvage, you know, this situation. But for at least a 9 couple of those options to work, or to work as -- as 10 efficiently as they could work, it would be easier if we had 11 a trustee speaking on behalf of all of the bondholders in 12 that process. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If there's a trustee -- 14 if we do not appropriate, what happens October 1? 15 MR. HENDERSON: Mr. Spurgeon? 16 MR. SPURGEON: Okay. Commissioner, the 17 documents say that if you don't appropriate, literally, the 18 facility is transferred over to the trustee's control. Now, 19 the trustee is going to most likely talk with the Juvenile 20 Board to continue to operate that at some point, but the 21 documents are going to say if you fail to appropriate, 22 really the only solution for bondholders at that point is to 23 sell the facility. There's a mortgage on the facility, and 24 so they would -- as Bob was mentioning earlier, that they 25 would most likely create the bondholder committee to talk 9-27-04 52 1 about -- to talk to the bondholders. What's the best 2 solution for the -- in order to gain as much value back to 3 the bondholders as they possibly can? If there is a way 4 where the -- the facility could be sold to somebody at some 5 cents on the dollar, good. All that becomes kind of part of 6 the mix, part of the negotiation process involving the 7 bondholders. But, literally, the documents will say that as 8 of October 1st, the facility is transferred over to the 9 trustee. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, at that point, it's 11 out of the Juvenile Board's control. Well, technically, 12 unless the trustee chooses -- 13 MR. SPURGEON: I guess two things could 14 happen. Literally, the doors could be shut on that day. I 15 don't think the trustee would do that. I think the trustee 16 would probably ask the Juvenile Board to continue its 17 operations for some period of time. I don't think you'd 18 literally see the doors shutting that day. I can't -- I 19 can't tell you that for sure, but I -- so I think they'd 20 either totally shut the door, or they would ask the Juvenile 21 Board to continue operating for some period of time. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why wouldn't the -- it be 23 better to try and negotiate before the trustee takes 24 control? I mean, I don't understand why you wouldn't go to 25 the bondholders before this happens. 9-27-04 53 1 MR. SPURGEON: Well, I think you have to do 2 two things -- or one thing. If you're going to attempt to 3 work out something with the bondholders without the trustee 4 taking over control, you're going to need to appropriate for 5 the lease payments. If you appropriate for the lease 6 payments for this coming year, it -- it stops any sort of 7 formal action of the trustee. That doesn't mean that you 8 may not still engage in discussions with the bondholders to 9 work out a problem, 'cause kind of going back to your 10 original question, or one of your questions earlier, if we 11 appropriate this year, do we have to appropriate next year? 12 The answer to that is no. So, I mean, you -- because it is 13 an annual appropriation-type situation, so your answer this 14 year doesn't mean that you're going to do the same thing 15 next year. It would give yourself some time to begin to -- 16 without having to formally nonappropriate, formally going 17 into default, would give you some time to look at the 18 overall operations of the facility, what you want to do with 19 the facility. 20 You may consider purchasing the facility, 21 as -- as Bob had mentioned earlier, as a -- as another 22 alternative. I mean, there are a number of things that you 23 could do. I don't think that failure to nonappropriate 24 would prevent you from talking with the bondholders, because 25 they -- they know there's a problem. Bondholders are very 9-27-04 54 1 aware that there is a financial problem going on right now 2 that may or may not get fixed through normal operations very 3 quickly. So, if -- there may be a situation where they 4 would step in and say we'd be glad to talk to you, to see 5 what we can all do to try to work this thing out without 6 having bonds going in default, without having the County's 7 debt rating reduced, those kinds of things. So, I mean, I 8 think that's a possibility. But to avoid the trustee coming 9 in, you'd have to appropriate. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can you appropriate for 11 one payment, not two? Or -- aren't there two payments a 12 year? 13 MR. SPURGEON: You would -- the documents say 14 you have to appropriate for the entire fiscal year. Your 15 large payment's coming up in February. You have about a 16 total of $412,000, I think, would be roughly due in this 17 next fiscal year. Most of that, 300-some-odd -- maybe a 18 little less than that; maybe around $300,000 is due on 19 February 15th. Then there's simply an interest payment 20 that's due on August 15th. But, in answer to your question, 21 no, you really could not do just a partial appropriation. 22 MR. HENDERSON: One thing that -- that the 23 County Commissioners could potentially do along the lines of 24 what you're discussing is -- is go ahead and nonappropriate 25 for the lease payment, but make some commitment to the 9-27-04 55 1 trustee that you would continue to fund at least the 2 operations of the facility for some -- some period of time. 3 Now, there's two points to be considered in that. One is, 4 as Commissioner Williams pointed out, there is a reserve 5 fund that will make the 2/15/05 payment and the 8/15/05 6 payment. And, should the 2/15/05 payment be paid from that 7 reserve fund and that reserve fund drawn down, the 8 Commissioners Court could pick up later and, under the 9 documents, simply replenish that reserve fund. I think it 10 would make sense that the facility -- to work out a solution 11 for the facility would make more sense if the facility 12 remained open. And one way to get both the bondholders 13 speaking with one voice through the trustee, and assure that 14 the -- that the facility remained open, and we therefore 15 have the best opportunity to -- to work out a -- a mutually 16 satisfactory arrangement, for lack of better terminology, 17 would be to suggest that the Commissioners Court would 18 continue to at least fund the negative operations of the 19 facility for some defined period of time. Just as an 20 option. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: See, to me, that's the 22 worst of both. We're getting hit on the bond rating, and 23 we're spending money on top of it. I mean, if we're going 24 to -- I mean, I guess -- you know, and I've heard several 25 people saying -- I've heard in the past, "Everything's 9-27-04 56 1 running fine out there and everything's going good. It's 2 all the State's fault and it's the nonprofit's fault." I 3 don't know that to be true. I mean, I would really -- you 4 know, I'm real uncomfortable making decisions -- we don't 5 have time, really, at this point to look into it. You know, 6 I feel a strong obligation for the bondholders. They bought 7 those bonds, in my opinion, thinking that -- you know, 8 granted, there's risk, but at the same time, there was a -- 9 Kerr County was kind of standing behind them. But the other 10 side is, I can't -- I don't want to appropriate funds that 11 are just being thrown away, and waste taxpayer dollars. So, 12 this is really -- it's a tough call, to me. And I really -- 13 you know, I'm trying to think it out. Is there any way that 14 we cannot ding our -- our financial rating, and try to work 15 something out with the bondholders? And I -- and I'm -- my 16 preference would be for the County to -- Commissioners Court 17 not to have to be involved with this, 'cause it's not our 18 problem, but it's kind of landed on our lap. And I will say 19 one thing; that if we do start funding things out there, the 20 Juvenile Board's going to have input from the Court. The 21 Juvenile Board makeup has got to change. I don't know who 22 changes that, if they have to change it or we change it. 23 MR. HENDERSON: My understanding is the 24 makeup of that board is set out by law. 25 MR. SPURGEON: Really, state statute. You'd 9-27-04 57 1 have to go to the Legislature. Almost all juvenile boards 2 throughout the state are created by individual state 3 statute, and the statute itself tells -- tells the makeup of 4 the board. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But -- not the Juvenile 6 Board makeup, but the -- does the Juvenile Board have to be 7 the -- operate that facility? 8 MR. SPURGEON: It does. Under state law, the 9 Juvenile Board does have to, and it's composed of sitting 10 District Judges and the County Judge. Yes, sir. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, potentially real 12 high-risk bonds. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Question. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Commissioner Letz 15 helped me when he framed the issue in terms of what do we 16 do; we compare it to a personal bankruptcy. That -- that 17 helped me, helped clarify some of the options for me. 18 Another way to frame it is, look at it in terms of what you 19 would do if this was an operation that was in the private 20 sector. What you wouldn't do when you look to an operation 21 that had no hope of the revenues ever exceeding costs, you 22 wouldn't go to your stockholders and say, "We want to stay 23 in this business forever." Now, if that's an accurate 24 assessment, why would we in government go to our taxpayers 25 and say, "We have no hope of the revenues ever meeting the 9-27-04 58 1 costs for this facility, but we want you to fund it 2 forever"? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Spurgeon, if the Court 4 appropriates for debt service, what is the obligation of the 5 Court, if any, to -- to be responsible for funding any 6 shortfall in operational costs? 7 MR. SPURGEON: Judge, I don't think there's 8 any obligation under the documents. The documents are 9 couched in terms of making lease payments, and those lease 10 payments are tied to the payment of debt service. I don't 11 think you have an obligation to be funding a shortfall in 12 operations. Now, that can become problematic, of course, in 13 terms of the ability to run the facility, but I don't think 14 you have an obligation under the documents. Or let me -- in 15 order to appropriate -- to appropriate -- we've talked 16 before about whether you have an obligation or not to 17 appropriate, and I think you are clear that you don't have 18 the obligation to appropriate. But if -- in order to avoid 19 a nonappropriation situation, I think the general obligation 20 would be to fund the lease payments, which are for the debt 21 service. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: With regard to the official 23 statement or prospectus which was issued to the prospective 24 purchaser of these bonds, I believe it's been indicated the 25 nonappropriation was clearly disclosed as one of the risks 9-27-04 59 1 for the bonds? 2 MR. SPURGEON: Yes, sir, it was. There's a 3 number of places on the cover page, and there's a 4 bondholder's risk section. There's a number of places where 5 it's -- it is listed as being a nonappropriation on the part 6 of the Juvenile Board first, which is -- which operates the 7 facility under an operating agreement with the County. I 8 mean, so, number one, there's a nonappropriation risk in 9 terms of the Juvenile Board actually doing so, and then 10 there's a -- a further statement regarding the County's -- 11 no obligation to appropriate. And it's in there a number of 12 times throughout. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Was there another risk 14 mentioned under the potential risk to the purchasers of 15 those bonds of the sources of revenue for the Juvenile 16 Board? 17 MR. SPURGEON: There is a section, Judge, 18 that does talk about the potential shortfalls that could 19 happen, and actually mentions two things that have happened. 20 It said something about that there is no assurance that 21 you're going to retain the same amount of juveniles. And I 22 can read part of it to you, Judge, but the other -- it talks 23 about shortfall in state revenues, that there is no 24 assurance the State may continue to fund in the manner in 25 which they've been funding. So -- I mean, and these are two 9-27-04 60 1 of the main things that have occurred in this situation, and 2 those are both disclosed here in the official statement, 3 yes, sir. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Somewhat prophetic. 5 MR. SPURGEON: Somewhat. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 7 MR. SPURGEON: But they were very -- 8 potential risks. I mean, you had a facility out there that 9 -- a good deal of your juveniles were non-Kerr County 10 residents, and you have -- you have no control as to how 11 those sentencing patterns would continue and those kind of 12 things. And some facts have occurred -- or circumstances 13 have occurred after the issuance of the bonds that have 14 caused a real snowball effect in terms of less juveniles 15 being there. And others can speak to that far better than I 16 can, but those are the facts as I understand them. And the 17 same thing with the State, with all of its budgetary 18 problems during the last legislative session. They've put 19 some pressure on, and have reduced the per diems on certain 20 classes of juvenile detainees, is my understanding also. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: As well as regulatory 22 requirements increasing the operational costs. 23 MR. SPURGEON: Someone else could speak to 24 that better than I, Judge. I've heard that as a -- as also 25 a further pressure on the operating side of the equation. 9-27-04 61 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I guess Commissioner 3 Letz and I were kind of on the same page with respect to 4 trying to find a solution, and I want to go back to it 5 again -- or comment to you, Tom, and to Bob. We'll see 6 where we go. 7 MR. SPURGEON: That's fine. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If we were to 9 appropriate the dollars, $412,000, we do so knowing that 10 this will be paid down. That will take care of the interest 11 and the payment in '04-'05. That's a correct assumption? 12 MR. SPURGEON: That's correct. That's right. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Then, can we 14 engage the trustee -- with the assurance that the next 15 payment is going to be paid and that the trustee doesn't 16 have to use his funds in trust to do so, can we then engage 17 the -- a representative of the bondholders to restructure 18 the debt? Is that the appropriate time, and can that be 19 done at that time? 20 MR. SPURGEON: Commissioner, I -- I guess the 21 question -- the word "can" is fairly important in there. I 22 don't think you have the legal authority to -- to engage the 23 bondholders. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We being the 25 Commissioners Court, or the facility corp.? 9-27-04 62 1 MR. SPURGEON: Actually, you being the 2 Commissioners Court. You being the lessee under the lease 3 agreement. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What about the 5 facility corp.? 6 MR. SPURGEON: Same thing. I think we're 7 still dealing with -- what I'm getting to is, there's -- 8 first of all, there's no assurance that the bondholders 9 would agree to any sort of a restructure. I mean, under the 10 circumstances, I think that they'd probably be fairly 11 willing to listen. So, I mean, because there's not been a 12 formal default, the documents don't require the trustee to 13 be stepping in and those things. I do think, though, under 14 the circumstances, that you would have a situation where the 15 bondholders would be fairly willing to come in and talk to 16 the Juvenile Board, talk to the County, try to resolve a 17 problem that's going to be a long-term problem -- 18 potentially could be a long-term problem. Who knows how 19 these revenues may come back? None of us can predict that. 20 But -- but I would think that they would be willing to step 21 in and work with you, and in -- in possible solutions to it. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. That's a 23 maybe. That's a maybe. That's not a given. 24 MR. SPURGEON: Yes, sir. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. And the only 9-27-04 63 1 way it becomes a given is that the trustee would engage us 2 in discussions if we fail to appropriate. 3 MR. SPURGEON: That's correct. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 5 MR. SPURGEON: That's correct. Now, I might 6 also -- 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If we fail to 8 appropriate, that gets his attention really quick. 9 MR. SPURGEON: Absolutely. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Then he's willing to 11 sit down and talk about restructuring. Absent that, it's 12 just kind of a maybe if we haven't gotten his attention, 13 whoever he is. 14 MR. HENDERSON: I hate to practice law 15 without a lawyer -- without a license. You know, I think it 16 -- it gets -- not only gets us his attention, to use your 17 vernacular, Commissioner, but it gives him the legal 18 authority now. The problem, as I see it, is that until 19 there's a nonappropriation, there's nothing in the documents 20 that triggers the trustee's legal authority to -- to start 21 acting on behalf of anybody. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me make one more inquiry, 24 if I might. Let's assume for the moment there's a failure 25 to appropriate, and let us further suppose that during the 9-27-04 64 1 course of the coming year, a solution is found to the 2 satisfaction of all parties in interest. What effect, if 3 any, does that have on any adverse or downgrading of the -- 4 of the County's bond rating or other credit standing? 5 MR. SPURGEON: I'm going to pass it back to 6 Bob. 7 MR. HENDERSON: Well, based on the 8 conversations I've had with the regional manager of Standard 9 and Poor's, if there's a failure to appropriate, Standard 10 and Poor's is going to take relatively immediate action on 11 the -- on the bond rate in question. Obviously, we would be 12 there arguing, you know, the Commissioners Court decided 13 this whole thing, and continuing to express, as directed -- 14 if it's directed by the Commissioners Court, you know, a 15 continuing desire to try to resolve this -- these matters. 16 But the short answer is, they're talking about immediate 17 action should there be a nonappropriation. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How does that 19 translate, Bob, into basis points? More basis points we'd 20 have to pay on bonds -- future bonds? 21 MR. HENDERSON: Well, again, you know, if -- 22 it's not going to affect you at all unless you try to issue 23 new debt, and then if you do issue new debt, it's going to 24 be a function of what is the security behind that debt. I 25 think there are some examples out in the marketplace that if 9-27-04 65 1 the Commissioners Court comes back and tries to issue 2 tax-secured debt, which is a very different animal than what 3 we're talking about here, there's a precedent that that 4 would suggest that, albeit at higher municipal bond 5 insurance premiums, you could probably continue to access 6 the capital markets at -- at market levels. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: My -- my question went a step 8 further than what the immediate action would be by the bond 9 rating agencies. If the situation were subsequently 10 resolved during the coming year by whatever means, some sort 11 of resolution, would any -- would any downgrading or loss in 12 credit standing be restored? 13 MR. HENDERSON: I think that it would. And I 14 say that based on, again, experiences that S & P's had with 15 other counties in similar situations. When those issues 16 have been resolved, the bond credit ratings have been 17 resolved. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have a question I 19 should know the answer to. The first question is, the 20 County owns the -- the property out there? What does the 21 County -- we're the lessee of what? What's the -- 22 MR. SPURGEON: Actually, the lessor. The 23 actual owner of the property is the Hill Country Juvenile 24 Facility Corporation. That was the issuer of the bonds. I 25 don't know if the County actually owns the land. 9-27-04 66 1 MR. WATTS: It's included. 2 MR. SPURGEON: That's actually part of the 3 Juvenile Facility Corporation; they're the owner of the 4 property. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, the County has no 6 involvement in any way? 7 MR. SPURGEON: That's my understanding, 8 that's correct. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, you said the County 10 being the lessee. Did you mean the Juvenile -- 11 MR. SPURGEON: No. Actually, the County is 12 lessee under the documents. The Juvenile Board is the 13 operator under an operating agreement between the County and 14 the -- and the Juvenile Board. The reason it was set up 15 that way, Commissioner, is that from the -- the juvenile 16 board laws are very -- they're -- archaic is a good word. 17 There's not much financing ability under the juvenile board 18 laws, and in order to do this transaction tax-exempt, the 19 County was involved as the lessee. And there -- and the 20 Public Facility Corporation Act clearly permitted this type 21 of a structure, which was -- as Bob mentioned earlier, was 22 kind of used back in '97 to redo the Recor situation. But 23 that -- the involvement was the Juvenile Board is operating 24 it on behalf of the County, if you will, pursuant to an 25 operating agreement, and that's the agreement that I think 9-27-04 67 1 Commissioner Williams had said something about. Juvenile 2 Board is responsible for all payments, et cetera. But in 3 order to, you know, completely close the -- close the loop, 4 if you will, and to be able to do a financing, the County 5 would continue to be the lessee, but again, subject to 6 appropriation. So -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got a couple 8 questions to Bob. Clearly, we all understand that if we do 9 not appropriate, that it'll affect our debt rating in a 10 negative way. And I think I heard you say earlier that if 11 we do appropriate, there's a possibility of it affecting our 12 debt rating in a negative way. Did I not hear that? 13 MR. HENDERSON: Yes, you did hear that, 14 Commissioner. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Would you explain that 16 one more time? 17 MR. HENDERSON: Well, I think that -- you 18 know, based on my conversations with Standard and Poor's, 19 they recognize that, again, a number of facilities across 20 the state are incurring significant operating losses with 21 respect to the operations of juvenile detention facilities. 22 And I think that if the Commissioners Court were to take on 23 not only the debt obligation here through an appropriation 24 of the lease payments, but were also to take on the 25 obligations of funding the operations of the juvenile 9-27-04 68 1 facility, that would represent, from the view of the rating 2 agencies, a significant additional budget burden to Kerr 3 County. And -- and given the uncertainty of what -- exactly 4 what that burden is, given that we can't predict, you know, 5 changes in the legislative position on reimbursements, on -- 6 on liability limitations and other things, that that would 7 have a negative impact on the County's bond rating. So, to 8 be clear, I do not think that appropriating simply for the 9 debt service would have a negative impact on the County's 10 bond rating, but I think -- but I think that appropriating 11 for the debt service and assuming obligation -- obligation 12 of funding the juvenile facility, given the uncertainty 13 involved, could potentially have a negative funding 14 operation. And I think, based on my conversations with 15 Standard and Poor's -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Particularly when 17 we're asked to come up with 400-something thousand dollars 18 three days before the budget adoption. That -- I mean, the 19 time frame is a little strange. But thank you very much. 20 Judge, you know what I'd like to hear? I'd like to hear -- 21 what if -- what if we did appropriate this money, or if God 22 dropped this big bundle of money out of the sky today. I'd 23 like to hear from Mrs. Harris of what the real plan is, or 24 what -- what she views this thing of getting that system 25 going, to get it back on its own feet without the 9-27-04 69 1 continuation of taxpayer's money. Would it be appropriate 2 to hear from Mrs. Harris today? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I don't know why it 4 wouldn't. But, at this point, I think we need to give our 5 court reporter a little break here. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That'd be fine. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: She's been -- she's been 8 pretty heavily engaged here. Why don't we take a recess 9 until five or ten till, and we'll come back and resume 10 discussion of this issue. 11 (Recess taken from 10:40 a.m. to 10:55 a.m.) 12 - - - - - - - - - - 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's come back to 14 order. We went in recess approximately 15 minutes ago, and 15 we're still on the second item on the agenda. For 16 informational purposes, Commissioner Nicholson and I have 17 a -- have a commitment during the lunch hour, actually 18 beginning prior to that, and so it's my intention to call a 19 recess at 11:30, to come back at approximately 1:00 this 20 afternoon and resume wherever we are at that time. 21 Commissioner Williams indicated he had one more quick 22 question for Mr. Henderson or Mr. Spurgeon. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Either one. Either 24 one or both. Just -- Bob, just for some clarification here, 25 there seems to be some thought running around in the room 9-27-04 70 1 that the intent of my question about either appropriating or 2 not appropriating was to, in effect, tell the bondholders to 3 go whistle in the dark and their money was gone away. 4 That's not my intent at all. 5 MR. HENDERSON: I didn't take it that way, 6 sir. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: My intent would be to 8 use the window of opportunity in restructuring, if that's an 9 available option, so as to be able to make the current 10 bondholders whole. Eliminate the call penalty, make them 11 whole, and start again on lower-interest bonds, if at all 12 possible. That's -- that was the intent of my question. 13 MR. HENDERSON: Yes, sir. And -- and I think 14 that that, you know, can be done. Now, the question is, is 15 how do we best go about doing that? One way is to 16 nonappropriate, get the trustee to determine whether or not 17 to come in and start speaking with one voice on behalf of 18 all the bondholders. The other way is to -- is to go ahead 19 and appropriate, wherein, as a lay person, it's my 20 understanding that the trustee would not have the legal 21 authority to act on behalf of the bondholders, and what we 22 would be left to do is to request a -- which we actually 23 have already requested, just haven't gotten it yet -- a list 24 of all the bondholders, and go about trying to create a 25 bondholder committee without using a trustee, and -- and try 9-27-04 71 1 to achieve those things. But -- but certainly, you know, I 2 understand that it was your intent to -- to proceed in a way 3 that continues to leave the door open for solutions to be 4 found. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, thank you. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Henderson. 7 Ms. Harris is with us today, Ms. Becky Harris. She's the 8 director and administrator of the Kerr County Juvenile 9 Detention Facility, and I believe Commissioner Baldwin 10 wanted a -- a synopsis of what her intentions were with 11 regard to the operation of that facility, and -- and how she 12 intends to proceed for its best financial interests. 13 MS. HARRIS: No pressure. When I was hired 14 by the Juvenile Board in June, I was given a challenge to 15 turn the facility around. There were several issues at the 16 facility when I took over as the administrator. When I took 17 the facility over as the administrator in June, I did 18 implement a -- a number of changes. I turned the entire 19 mind-set and philosophy of that facility around 180 degrees, 20 because the times are no longer purely correctional for the 21 kids. Those times are no longer viable, because you have 22 different entities across the state that believe in more 23 rehabilitative issues to be blended in with corrections. 24 Having said that, my expertise is the blending of treatment 25 rehabilitation, if you will, with the correctional modality. 9-27-04 72 1 That's my expertise. That's what I did in San Angelo. That 2 was my -- that's my intentions to complete that here. My 3 staff at the facility are -- I will put them up against any 4 staff in the state. They're extremely good in what they do. 5 They're like on automatic pilot; I can give a directive, and 6 they go handle it. And that's the kind of atmosphere that I 7 build, and that's the atmosphere that I'm building at this 8 facility. Yes? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you a 10 question real quick. 11 MS. HARRIS: Sure. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Didn't you bring some 13 staff folks from your former position in San Angelo? 14 MS. HARRIS: Yes, I did. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How many of those? 16 MS. HARRIS: Six. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Six? 18 MS. HARRIS: I brought six people from San 19 Angelo that applied for positions that were open. They went 20 through the interview process. And, naturally, I knew their 21 expertise. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They moved here? 23 MS. HARRIS: They moved here. They moved 24 their families here, yes. They certainly did. They have 25 been -- those six individuals have been instrumental in -- 9-27-04 73 1 in helping with the changes in the philosophy of the 2 facility. The Kerr County employees that remained at the 3 facility after I got there have just been more than 4 cooperative. They have been open to the change. They have 5 embraced it, and they have seen the difference in the way 6 that we handle the kids and the way that we treat the kids, 7 and just the entire philosophy is different. And I don't 8 want this to sound how it's probably going to sound, and I'm 9 going to try to make it where it's not sounding 10 braggadocious. I do know people across the state, and they 11 do know the type of facilities that I run and know the type 12 of program that I have. And since I've been here, we have 13 brought on some counties that have not placed kids at the 14 facility for quite some time, or at all, and we now have 15 those counties on board. And that's an extremely positive 16 thing. 17 I get phone calls from chief probation 18 officers wanting to know how the meeting went on September 19 the 17th with T J.P.C. Board of Directors. What was the 20 outcome of that? Very interested in that. They're wanting 21 to know how things are going at the facility. And I'm in 22 constant contact with a lot of the chief probation officers 23 and placement officers across the state, and they're very 24 positive about sending juveniles to us. Now, granted, 25 we're -- we are at the end of the fiscal year for the large 9-27-04 74 1 majority of the counties in the state, and so counties are 2 hesitant about sending kids starting somewhere around July, 3 August, September. They're hanging onto their money, if 4 they've got any money left. Most of the counties don't have 5 any money left for placement, so they're waiting for their 6 next fiscal year. So, come October 1, then we'll start 7 seeing an influx of kids and our population will increase. 8 That's the normal pattern. It happens for every facility in 9 the state. So, come October 1 -- we're already starting to 10 see some kids come in for the month of September, more 11 than -- more than usual, because some counties' fiscal year 12 starts September 1. 13 Not only have I changed the mind-set and the 14 philosophy of the facility -- and that's an ongoing process, 15 but we're 90 percent there, which is remarkable in the 90 16 days that I've been there. And that is a credit to the 17 staff, not anything I did. That's a credit to the staff 18 wanting changes to happen, and being on board for those 19 changes. Adding the substance abuse treatment program is 20 going to be a big shot in the arm. Just this week, I -- 21 last week I finished -- we had our walk-through monitoring 22 visit for the physical plant; there were zero deficiencies. 23 That is a credit to the existing staff out there, the Kerr 24 County staff. I turned in the application. Policies and 25 procedures, I edited the policy and procedures in order to 9-27-04 75 1 incorporate TCADA's standards, so forth and so on. They 2 sent a letter back to me, and there were a few of the 3 policies and procedures that they wanted tweaked a little 4 bit more. I did that, got that sent off, got it overnighted 5 to them. So, our substance abuse license -- I can almost 6 hold it in my hand. It's there. It's just almost there. 7 Once that's in place, then I will be able to 8 bring in a more specialized treatment program, and which 9 will allow counties to send us kids that have a substance 10 abuse diagnosis on their psychologicals, and there is a huge 11 need for that across the state. Yes, there's some other 12 facilities out there that offer the same thing. Yes, and 13 those facilities are also in financial problems. And I hate 14 to make this sound like I'm a buzzard sitting on a fence, 15 but that's exactly what I am. I'm the biggest, blackest 16 buzzard sitting on the fence waiting for other facilities to 17 close, and then I'll take their population. In the 18 meantime, we're going to be bringing in kids on our own 19 volition and our own reputation, which is extremely 20 well-known across the state, and it's a good reputation. 21 Before I ever got here -- and I think I shared this with you 22 before. Before I ever got here, Kerr County was -- was the 23 foremost facility in the state for substance abuse treatment 24 a few years ago. Number one. There was a waiting list out 25 there for counties to send kids. That facility was full. 9-27-04 76 1 And I'm not going to promise you pie in the 2 sky. I'm not going to promise you that I'm going to pull a 3 rabbit out of a hat. I'm not going to promise anything. 4 The one thing I will promise is that I will work my hardest, 5 and so will the staff, to get the population up, maintain 6 the impeccable reputation that the facility has, keep 7 employees working. And the one thing that gets lost when 8 you're talking about money and budgets and bonds and 9 appropriation and nonappropriation, the one thing that gets 10 lost is the benefit to the kids, and that's what we're in 11 the business for. That's what I'm in the business for, is 12 to make a difference in the kids. And that's what we do, 13 and that's our job. And we produce a different product, if 14 you will, if you want to look at it on the business side. 15 So, my intentions are -- and the answer in response to 16 Commissioner Baldwin, my intentions are to continue to turn 17 this facility around. My intentions are to get more kids 18 in. My intention is to make a difference in those kids' 19 lives, build our reputation, and have a waiting list. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Harris? 21 MS. HARRIS: Yes, sir? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: In the course of this past 23 year, were additional regulatory requirements placed on 24 juvenile detention facilities, particularly this one? 25 MS. HARRIS: Yes, sir. 9-27-04 77 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Which caused your operational 2 expenses to increase? 3 MS. HARRIS: Yes, sir. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: If so, how much? 5 MS. HARRIS: Yes, sir. It had to do with the 6 staffing issues. T.J.P.C. staffing requirements in the past 7 was one -- one juvenile detention officer to 12 kids, and 8 now it's 1-to-8 during the waking hours, and 1-to-12 at 9 night. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: What -- 11 MS. HARRIS: Second issue -- 12 JUDGE TINLEY: What effect has that had on -- 13 MS. HARRIS: It's practically doubled. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: -- your operational 15 employee -- 16 MS. HARRIS: It's practically doubled our 17 employees' salaries, yes. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions for 19 Ms. Harris? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just a general one. And 21 maybe -- I don't know -- is Tommy -- is he back there? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, he's here. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't know if it's 24 better for you or Tommy, maybe the Judge. What -- I guess 25 we've heard so much doom and gloom about the long-term 9-27-04 78 1 prospects financially. What are the prospects of -- based 2 on the current reimbursement coming from the State and 3 current expenses out there, what are the prospects of the 4 facility standing on its own in the next couple of years? I 5 mean, assuming we get up to, I don't know, 80, 90 percent 6 occupancy or whatever, you know, is reasonable for a 7 top-notch facility. 8 MR. TOMLINSON: The fact that she has 9 mentioned about the staffing, the -- the salary costs at the 10 facility today are approximately $900,000 a year. When -- 11 when the change was made in the staffing from 1-to-12 to 12 1-to-8, that's a -- that's a 50 percent increase. And if 13 you consider a $900,000 budget, that's a severe loss in -- 14 increase in operating costs. At today's levels, I mean, we 15 not only have an issue with -- with funding from -- from the 16 State; we also have a competitive issue. There -- 17 throughout the state, there's a range of -- of per diems 18 that are being charged by -- by facilities around the state 19 that are -- that range from $40 a day to $110 a day. The -- 20 the issue is, in the -- from a competitive standpoint, is 21 that the -- the places that are -- that are charging these 22 low rates are -- are facilities that were built by state 23 funds. In 1995, the State of Texas issued $37.5 million in 24 bonds, and I understand that they -- that when those -- with 25 those dollars, they built 19 facilities around the state. 9-27-04 79 1 And, in fact, I read that in -- in -- when -- at the last 2 board meeting of T.J.P.C.; it was in their -- in the minutes 3 of their meeting. And also in the minutes of their own 4 meeting, it referenced the State of Texas subsidizing those 5 facilities approximately $22 a day per child. So, ever 6 since 1995, when those facilities were built, the State of 7 Texas has subsidized the facilities that were built with 8 state moneys. Well -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's hard to compete 10 with that. 11 MR. TOMLINSON: -- you can't compete with 12 that. So -- so we have -- you know, it's been a conscious 13 decision to maintain our -- our rates at a -- at an average, 14 I would say, to be able to compete with -- with those 15 people. So, until -- you know, until that changes or the 16 Legislature, you know, makes the decision that they're going 17 to fund the services that they're requiring, to where, you 18 know, County-run facilities or even privately-run facilities 19 can -- can break even, then -- then I don't see that -- that 20 we can absolutely break even, even if we're full. I mean, 21 at the current -- at the current levels. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: When you say "break even," are 23 you including or not including the debt service on the bond? 24 MR. TOMLINSON: I'm not including the debt 25 service. That does not include debt service. There -- 9-27-04 80 1 there's a facility in east Texas that charges $40 a day. 2 You know, I talked to a County Auditor in -- in a county 3 adjacent to that county that they -- that planned to close 4 their -- part of their facility October 1st. So, you know, 5 there's -- there's a lot of issues from a financial 6 standpoint other than just not having kids. I mean, it's 7 difficult to compete out there. And I look at this as a -- 8 as one of those unfunded mandates by the State of Texas. I 9 mean, the cost of -- of rehabilitating juvenile offenders is 10 now on our back, and -- and not the state. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tommy, how is -- how do 12 we handle the funds -- or the detainees out there that come 13 from Kerr County? Do we actually transfer the dollars to 14 the facility? 15 MR. TOMLINSON: We -- the contract between 16 the facility and Kerr County is the same as any other 17 contract. It's -- I would call it an arm's-length 18 transaction as to where, you know, Kerr County pays exactly 19 the same as -- as any other county. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Ms. Harris, just one 21 quick question. 22 MS. HARRIS: Yes, sir? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Two parts. Will the 24 reimbursement rate from the State be the same for substance 25 abuse and alcohol detainees as any other type of detainee? 9-27-04 81 1 MS. HARRIS: Yes. It -- it won't make any 2 difference. The state -- T.J.P.C. doesn't care if you offer 3 a substance abuse treatment program or not. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 5 MS. HARRIS: It's going to be the same. 6 We're going to have to charge the same per diem for a 7 substance abuse resident as we are for a non-substance abuse 8 resident. We're going to have to charge the same per diem 9 for competitive -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. The second 11 part of my question has to do with your most optimistic 12 projections. 13 MS. HARRIS: Yes. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Once you get the 15 license in-hand -- 16 MS. HARRIS: Yes. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- what type of 18 census increase do you see as result of that? 19 MS. HARRIS: For the post-adjudication side, 20 of course, we have 42 available beds, because I found out -- 21 remember me telling you about the dorm that we couldn't use 22 any more? Well, when I was up there on Friday, the 17th, in 23 talking with T.J.P.C. standards experts, we can use six of 24 those beds, so that puts the total number of beds available 25 for post-adjudication to 42, rather than 36. So, with 42 9-27-04 82 1 beds, I predict that I'll have all my substance abuse 2 licensed beds full, which I licensed for 18 beds. That will 3 be just the substance abuse kids. That's not going to be 4 counting all the other kids that we will get. So, 18 -- 5 42 -- I'm going to predict that we'll be right at in the 6 mid-30's, quickly. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, thank you. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you very much. We 9 appreciate that. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I have one 11 more -- one more issue that I'd like to bring up. Talking 12 about -- we've talked about all of our problems, and 13 Ms. Harris came along and talked about possible solutions. 14 There is one option that I'd like to get on the table while 15 Mr. Henderson and Mr. Spurgeon are here, and I -- I've asked 16 Sheriff Hierholzer to make a short presentation of a -- of a 17 short -- I mean, he's short, you know. I call on him 'cause 18 he's small. And to -- an option that I would like for him 19 to just throw out at us so we can chew on it, and to see 20 that possibly there is other avenues. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: He's holding up four; 22 you're holding up two. Well, it doesn't look good, from 23 what I've seen. But the only thing that I would say, if 24 this County were to actually go out and purchase that 25 facility and decide that it should be run -- I went out 9-27-04 83 1 there last week and visited with Ms. Harris some. I think 2 the County has to have a place to house juveniles. There's 3 no ands, ifs, or buts about that; it would cost us way too 4 much to transport them. But the only thing that I would 5 look at seriously doing is turning part of that facility -- 6 those are two separate buildings out there, which would meet 7 jail standards. Turning part of it -- one of those 8 buildings into an outside work program trustee for adults, 9 like the outside program we have now with the 10 black-and-white striped inmates. I think that's very 11 beneficial. It would allow to it expand, 'cause it would 12 allow me a greater number of outside trustees to be able to 13 house due to classification, due to how you have to keep 14 them separate inside an adult jail. 15 The other thing that I would do is leave one 16 of the other facilities to house juveniles. But we differ 17 one thing on juvenile housing, and this is mainly because 18 I'm with Kerr County. I don't believe that we should be 19 bringing juveniles -- the little gang-bangers from Dallas, 20 Houston, Fort Worth, everywhere else, and bringing them here 21 to this community to house them, and put them in with our 22 kids and make our kids better gang-bangers. I just totally 23 disagree with that. I think if we want to do it like your 24 -- you run an adult facility, and housing our own juveniles 25 that are problems here, house them here and contract with 9-27-04 84 1 our immediate surrounding counties, like we do in the adult 2 facility, just to house those here. On our preadjudication 3 ones, where it's ones we've -- we pick up, the County 4 already contracts to house most adjudication ones, I think, 5 or different places for substance abuse. But I think right 6 now, my personal opinion, I think we're bringing in kids 7 from other counties and, you know, we're being asked as 8 taxpayers to help fund that, and I don't believe in that. 9 Kerr County needs to take care of their own and deal with 10 them, and not worry about the other counties. But that's 11 the way I would see that facility being able to work. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Sheriff. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, just as a wrap-up 14 comment, I think -- are you done with this, I presume? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Thought I was. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Later on the agenda 17 today, we have a budget item which this will be resolved 18 once and for all, and, you know, I don't know that everyone 19 is going to stay around for that. My feeling is that I can 20 not justify voting to appropriate the funds. Which I'm sure 21 will, you know, get out to the bondholders pretty quick. 22 But I hope the people that are here would express a -- you 23 know, a desire from the -- my standpoint, and the 24 Commissioners Court, to work with them in -- the bondholders 25 in some way to solve the problem, whether it's issuing all 9-27-04 85 1 new debt under some different whole new thing, something 2 Rusty was talking about, or -- I don't know. I think that 3 -- I think that probably most of us up here, if not all, 4 don't like the situation we're in at all. It's a very 5 difficult decision. I would have to look at the taxpayers 6 and our responsibility to them first, not the bondholders 7 first. And -- but that doesn't mean that I'm not interested 8 in seriously trying to work out some way to make them whole, 9 and hopefully we can do that. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. We've got another 11 timed item that we're way overdue on. Mr. Gary Looney, with 12 Catto and Catto, our employee health benefits consultant 13 that -- that the Court voted to retain for assistance in our 14 health benefits program, has been very patient, and we're 15 going to push it over to him. He says five minutes. 16 MR. LOONEY: Five? Is that okay? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Hey, what a guy. Good to have 18 you with us here today, Mr. Looney. 19 MR. LOONEY: Thank you. My name is Gary 20 Looney. Judge Tinley -- thank you, Commissioners. I got to 21 tell you gentlemen that I -- every time I come to a 22 Commissioners Court meeting, I get that much more respect 23 for what you all have to do. And when I start listening to 24 Mr. Henderson talk, I kind of go into a zone, and, 25 unfortunately, sometimes when he hears me talk, he goes into 9-27-04 86 1 a different zone, because we both speak two different 2 languages. I did hear him say "insurance." I did hear that 3 twice, which kind of woke me up. So, what I wanted to do is 4 give you kind of -- one, just let you see who I am, what I 5 do, and tell you briefly about the calendar of events, and I 6 have a couple of suggestions and recommendations. 7 First of all, I've been in the insurance 8 business for the last 37 years. I was sold into indenture 9 by my father when I was very young, and have been doing it 10 ever since. The licensing that I hold, I'm a registered 11 employee benefits consultant, life and health insurance 12 counselor, and all those other things. What I intend to 13 do -- what we want to do is to -- the goal that we have is 14 to find the very best product for your employees at the very 15 best price for the people who elected you all. I want to 16 take care of the taxpayers, take care of the money, and also 17 want to take care of the employees of the county. Through 18 the end of September, we are requesting information from 19 your current carrier that will allow us to put on the 20 street -- put out into the general public a Request for 21 Proposal. That Request for Proposal takes on a little bit 22 different nature than it has in the past, because we had law 23 changes take place in June of 2002 and December of 2003 that 24 have given us a huge opportunity for plan design, different 25 product designs that we never had before, things that we can 9-27-04 87 1 do for benefits and employees that really open a window of 2 opportunity for a lot of plan design issues. 3 We will put that Request for Proposal out the 4 first week in October -- or the end of the first week in 5 October. We expect responses back by the beginning of the 6 first week of November. Then I will make presentations to 7 you all within 10 to 14 days of receiving those bids. That 8 time frame -- that calendar of events is somewhat impacted 9 by the ability of your current provider to be certain that 10 we get the information through the end of September on a 11 timely basis. I've already been in touch with the 12 Treasurer, and will be submitting to her that very formal 13 request of information that we need from the current 14 carrier, and I suspect and hope that they will be helpful in 15 getting that information to us. During this bid process, I 16 know that there will be a lot of agents involved, and 17 hopefully, during the bid process, there will not be a lot 18 of politicking going on for the agent position. But one 19 thing that we do during the RFP process is we require an 20 insurance company to name a specific agent to the contract 21 that they're bidding, which means that there's not going to 22 be multiple agents named to multiple bids, which puts you 23 all in the position of having to select an agent. So, you 24 will not be put into the position of having to select an 25 agent; the bid process will eliminate that concern. 9-27-04 88 1 I do speak a different language. I speak 2 very quickly sometimes, and I use a lot of acronyms. And, 3 as a result of that, one of the things, because of the law 4 changes, I would like to very strongly recommend is that we 5 have a workshop sometime during the month of October where I 6 can come to you gentlemen and tell you what the law changes 7 are, give you a demonstration of the information that will 8 be provided to us prior to the bids actually being 9 completed, so that when the time comes for us to discuss in 10 court the changes and the -- and the opportunities that we 11 might have, that you'll have a better understanding of what 12 information I am going to tell the Court. I look forward 13 very much to working with you. Regardless of all those 14 things that they've said about the Commissioners Court in 15 Kerr County and appropriating funds, nonappropriating funds, 16 I don't believe all that. The one thing I can say, though, 17 is that when we're dealing with employees' dollars, the 18 Juvenile Detention Center's going to look very simple, 19 because that -- that appropriation is going to be a lot more 20 difficult. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you for that 22 good news. 23 MR. LOONEY: Anybody have any questions? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you very much, 25 Mr. Looney. 9-27-04 89 1 MR. LOONEY: I look forward to working with 2 you gentlemen. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: We appreciate your patience 4 today and the delay in getting you on at 9:30, as I promised 5 you. 6 MR. LOONEY: That's quite all right. Thank 7 you. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. We appreciate 9 that. It's almost 11:30, so we'll stand in recess until 10 1:00 this afternoon. 11 (Discussion off the record.) 12 (Recess taken from 11:27 a.m. to 1:03 p.m.) 13 - - - - - - - - - - 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to 15 order. We've been in recess for the lunch hour. Let's come 16 back to order and proceed with our timed items. The next 17 timed item on the agenda, which has long since been passed, 18 is a public hearing. Therefore, I will recess the 19 Commissioners Court meeting and open a public hearing on the 20 proposed salary expenses and other allowances of elected 21 county or precinct officers for the Fiscal Year 2004-2005. 22 (The regular Commissioners Court meeting was closed at 1:04 p.m., and a public hearing 23 was held in open court, as follows:) 24 P U B L I C H E A R I N G 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there any member of the 9-27-04 90 1 public present that wishes to be heard with respect to that 2 item? 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Seeing no one indicating a 5 desire to speak or coming forward, I will close the public 6 hearing on the proposed salary expenses and other allowances 7 of elected county or precinct officers for Fiscal Year 8 2004-2005. 9 (The public hearing was concluded at 1:05 p.m., and the regular Commissioners 10 Court meeting was reopened.) 11 - - - - - - - - - - 12 JUDGE TINLEY: The next item on the agenda is 13 a timed item. I'm not sure if we're ready to proceed. 14 Well, we probably can, yes. It's a public hearing. I will 15 open a public hearing under Item 11 for the revision of a 16 plat for Tracts 28A and 28B of the Y.O. Ranchlands. 17 (The regular Commissioners Court meeting was closed at 1:05 p.m., and a public hearing 18 was held in open court, as follows:) 19 P U B L I C H E A R I N G 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there any member of the 21 public that wishes to be heard with respect to the revision 22 of plat for Tracts 28A and 28B of Y.O. Ranchlands? 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Seeing no one giving an 25 indication of wanting to speak on that item or otherwise 9-27-04 91 1 coming forward to speak, I will close the public hearing for 2 the revision of the plat on Tracts 28A and 28B of the Y.O. 3 Ranchlands. 4 (The public hearing was concluded at 1:06 p.m., and the regular Commissioners Court 5 meeting was reopened.) 6 - - - - - - - - - - 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I will now open a public 8 hearing for road name changes, regulatory signs, and road 9 abandonment under Item 13 of the agenda. 10 (The regular Commissioners Court meeting was closed at 1:06 p.m., and a public hearing 11 was held in open court, as follows:) 12 P U B L I C H E A R I N G 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there any member of the 14 public that wishes to be heard with respect to the road name 15 changes, regulatory signs, and road abandonment? 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Seeing no one coming forward 18 or otherwise indicating a desire to speak on that item, I 19 will close the public hearing for the road name changes, 20 regulatory signs, and road abandonment. 21 (The public hearing was concluded at 1:07 p.m., and the regular Commissioners Court 22 meeting was reopened.) 23 - - - - - - - - - - 24 JUDGE TINLEY: The next timed item on the 25 agenda, I will open a public hearing at this time on the 9-27-04 92 1 proposed 2004-2005 Kerr County budget. 2 (The regular Commissioners Court meeting was closed at 1:07 p.m., and a public hearing 3 was held in open court, as follows:) 4 P U B L I C H E A R I N G 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there any member of the 6 public that wishes to be heard or otherwise inform the Court 7 in any manner about the proposed 2004-2005 Kerr County 8 budget? Any member of the public wishing to speak on the 9 proposed 2004-2005 Kerr County budget? 10 (No response.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Seeing no response from the 12 audience or the public generally, or no one coming forward, 13 I will close the public hearing on the proposed Fiscal Year 14 2004-2005 Kerr County budget. 15 (The public hearing was concluded at 1:08 p.m., and the regular Commissioners Court 16 meeting was reopened.) 17 - - - - - - - - - - 18 JUDGE TINLEY: The next item on the agenda 19 that is a timed item, that was scheduled for a specific 20 time, is an item at 10:45, being Number 18, and I will now 21 reconvene the Commissioners Court meeting, and I will call 22 Item 18 on the agenda, which is discuss and consider a 23 resolution thanking Colonel Walter B. Harris for his service 24 to the Kerr County 9-1-1 Network. Commissioner Baldwin. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. Thank you 9-27-04 93 1 very much. I'd like to read the resolution into the record, 2 please. 3 "Whereas, for 14 years, Kerr Emergency 9-1-1 4 has provided emergency notification services for the 5 citizens of Kerr County; and 6 "Whereas, oversight for policies and 7 direction of this vital service through the years has come 8 from a dedicated Board of Managers representing all 9 political subdivisions and emergency service providers in 10 Kerr County; and 11 "Whereas, Colonel Walter B. Harris, Jr., 12 Precinct 2, Kerr County, has provided the Board of Managers 13 his insight and experience in all aspects of their 14 deliberations during his years of service; now, therefore 15 "Be it resolved that the Kerr County 16 Commissioners Court does hereby extend its thanks and 17 appreciation to Colonel Walter B. Harris for his willingness 18 to serve the people of Kerr County and his dedication to the 19 betterment of Kerr Emergency 9-1-1. 20 "Adopted this 27th day of September, 2004." 21 Signed by the Commissioners Court of Kerr County. I move 22 for approval, Judge. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made -- 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: With one correction, 9-27-04 94 1 Judge, before we -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 3 approval of the resolution as indicated by Precinct 1 4 Commissioner. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There's one 6 correction. The word resolved on the "Be it Resolved," 7 there's a typographical error in it, if Kathy will correct 8 that. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Is there any 10 further questions or discussion with regard to this 11 particular agenda item and the motion? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Good job, Buster, in 13 writing that. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. I've had a 15 great teacher up at Tivy back many years ago that -- and 16 she's just sitting down over there, and -- appreciate her. 17 She's behind this. Actually, Bill Williams wrote it, and I 18 thank you, Bill. And if you have any problems with the 19 wording or spelling, be it on yours. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I made the mistake. 21 Pass it over to Kathy; we'll blame her, though. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I've got some 23 comments on it, and the comments will somehow also tie in 24 the next item on the agenda, but they're related 25 specifically to this one. It's appropriate, in my view, to 9-27-04 95 1 commend Colonel Harris for his work. He's -- he's one of 2 those board members that you just get once in a while. He's 3 a hard worker, spends a lot of time. He's spent a lot of 4 time working with the director and representing the board in 5 the community. He's been a strong advocate of fiscal 6 responsibility for 9-1-1, even taking some difficult 7 positions in the past, such as opposing budgets that include 8 extravagant increase -- extravagant increases in salary 9 costs. He's got the -- in my opinion, the vision that's 10 needed to move 9-1-1 toward a high-performing emergency 11 service system. And 9-1-1 is facing some difficult 12 challenges now and in the near future. There's some 13 uncertainty as to whether 9-1-1 can fund the needed 14 equipment upgrades that are -- that are rapidly approaching. 15 The reliability of emergency dispatch needs improving. 16 9-1-1 apparently, because of budget difficulties, has 17 threatened to eliminate funding to the volunteer fire 18 departments to provide critical paging service. This 19 decision may result in litigation. I don't know about that, 20 but I know that's an issue that's on the table. 21 So, for all of these reasons, and because of 22 his competence and his leadership and his vision, and 23 because of the challenges facing 9-1-1, I think it is -- it 24 would be unwise to take him off that board at this time. I 25 know that he's not just willing to, but wants to continue 9-27-04 96 1 his work on the board, and I think that we should continue 2 to use him as the County's representative. That's all. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions, 4 comments, statements to be made? I had the -- I had the 5 privilege of acting as counsel to the 9-1-1 Board of 6 Managers for many, many years prior to coming onto the 7 Court, and during a portion of that time, Colonel Harris was 8 acting as a member of that board. And, based on my personal 9 experience of observing his activities and -- and his 10 efforts, I thought he did an excellent job. He was always 11 prepared. He seemed to be able to see difficulties ahead 12 before they were really up on the radar screen good, always 13 approached his duties in a very, very professional manner, 14 and at -- at times, if he thought there was some issues that 15 needed to be addressed and corrections made, was quite 16 steadfast in his resolve to do that. So, I have nothing but 17 the greatest of admiration for Colonel Harris and -- and his 18 activities on that board, having personally observed them 19 for some pretty good period of time. So, I -- I know he was 20 a valuable asset to that board, and could continue to be so 21 if the Court decides to go forward on that basis. Maybe 22 we'll do better, but I know we could sure do a lot worse. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a comment, if I 24 might. The -- I was probably, more than any other 25 Commissioner, instrumental in the way of making some changes 9-27-04 97 1 in board members out there, and also getting Colonel Harris 2 and some of the -- our other County representatives put on 3 that board. And, at the time they were put on the board, 4 the Commissioners Court felt a -- there was a certain type 5 of individual with certain needs -- certain expectations 6 needed out there. And I think that the current board -- or 7 the members of that board have gone a long, long ways in 8 making 9-1-1 operations, you know, certainly on the road to 9 improvement and doing a very good job, you know, and 10 creating addressing projects that could not get done up till 11 now. 12 I also think that there is a -- one of the 13 reasons the old board started having problems is there were 14 -- there was no changes. There was no new blood, no new 15 ideas. And I think one of the things I learned from that is 16 that it is incumbent on the County -- on not just, you know, 17 renewing people in positions. You know, we're better off 18 bringing new people in occasionally. And I personally feel 19 that we've -- well, I don't know about future appointments 20 out there, but I think there's -- Colonel Harris did a great 21 job, but I also think that there are other people that can 22 serve on that board very well, and I think get some new 23 ideas. There are new challenges, and I think there are -- 24 you know, it's a good time to make a change. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything further on this 9-27-04 98 1 particular item? All in favor of the motion before the 2 Court, signify by raising your right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. The 7 next item on the agenda that is a timed item is Item Number 8 19, appoint Ron Vick as County representative to Board of 9 Governors of Kerr County 9-1-1 Network for two-year term. 10 Commissioner Baldwin again. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, sir. Yes. 12 In light of Commissioner Letz' comments about new visions 13 and new directions and -- and strength and courage and all 14 that, we have decided to nominate Mr. Vick to -- to that 15 two-year term out there. And Mr. Vick is -- I've known him 16 for a long time. He's a man of integrity, very intelligent. 17 Comes more from the business side of the fence than he does 18 the military side of the fence, so I think that he -- you 19 know, there's no doubt in my mind that he's going to be able 20 to look at the budget issues and those problems that Number 21 4 brought up that -- and be able to see what needs to be 22 done, and -- and will represent this Commissioners Court in 23 a fair and equitable way. So, I move that we appoint Ron 24 Vick as the County representative to the Board of Governors 25 of the Kerr County 9-1-1 Network for two years. 9-27-04 99 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 3 approval of the agenda item. Any question or discussion? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd like to -- like to 6 say that Mr. Vick is in the audience. Mr. Vick, would you 7 stand up so we can -- 8 MR. VICK: Certainly. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Football player for 10 Angelo State University. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I've known Ron a long 12 time, served on a number of boards with him. I think he 13 will do an outstanding job on that 9-1-1 Board of Governors. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 15 comment? 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm -- I'm going to 17 vote against that, and it doesn't have anything to do with 18 Mr. Ron Vick. It has to do with the -- with the items I 19 discussed a few minutes ago. I'm sure he's a very capable 20 and qualified citizen and will do a good job, as any 21 volunteer -- 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did you -- did you 23 just vote to -- the resolution -- 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: To commend. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- to the Colonel? 9-27-04 100 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And you're voting 3 against replacing -- tell me what reason that is. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I've already 5 explained that. I think the continuity of having Colonel 6 Harris on there is more important than new blood. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So you're voting 8 against -- 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm willing to 10 commend Colonel Lewis for his past two years -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Colonel Lewis? 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Colonel Harris' 13 performance, and I'm prepared to -- to appoint him to 14 another two-year term. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see what you're 16 saying. And it's -- one of those reasons is that KARFA is 17 thinking about suing 9-1-1? Is that -- 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: One of the reasons 19 is that there's -- 9-1-1 is facing some significant 20 challenges, and that's one of the challenges they may be 21 facing. I don't know a whole lot about that. And I think 22 the institutional memory that Colonel Harris possesses and 23 the continuity that it would provide is more important than 24 new blood. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Very good. Thank you. 9-27-04 101 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 2 comment? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 3 your right hand. 4 (Commissioners Baldwin, Williams, and Letz voted in favor of the motion.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Nay. 7 (Commissioner Nicholson voted against the 8 motion.) 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would like to make 10 a comment. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That Colonel Harris 13 has -- has indicated to me that he -- while he might be a 14 little upset about this change, he is perfectly willing to 15 continue to serve Kerr County on the Senior Advisory Board, 16 and will do so. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: The next item on the agenda 18 that is a timed item -- getting there pretty quick, aren't 19 we? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're working on it. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Item Number 20, consider and 22 discuss the agreements and/or protocols needed to authorize 23 Kimble County or Junction to assume responsibility as 24 primary responder for 9-1-1 emergency calls made from the 25 Y.O. Ranchlands Subdivision. 9-27-04 102 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't think our 2 County Attorney's present. Get him up here, if you will. 3 We've been dealing with this issue. We've wondered what it 4 takes to make an interlocal agreement between Kerr County 5 and Kimble County to -- to allow Kimble County to provide 6 EMS services to the Y.O. Ranchlands estates. We've asked 7 the County Attorney to report to us on that issue, and I 8 understand he was out of town last week, and I notice that 9 his assistant's not here with us either. I think now I 10 believe -- I now believe it's a moot point. What we've 11 found is that in 2003, the County Attorney sent an 12 interlocal agreement to Kimble County, Texas, asking them to 13 -- and the interlocal agreement was to provide emergency 14 medical services. And Kimble County officials signed that 15 agreement and returned it, and they've never received a -- a 16 copy of the final agreement signed by the County Judge. 17 And then, also, we have found that on -- in 18 April of this year, the City of Kerrville sent an 19 essentially identical agreement to Kimble County to provide 20 for EMS services, and on the 20th of April, 2004, Kimble 21 County officials signed that and returned it to Kerr County 22 for the signatures of the City Manager and others, and the 23 same thing transpired; they have not, again, received a -- a 24 copy of the final signed agreement. But the whole point of 25 this is, I think that we had questions about whether or not 9-27-04 103 1 we could make a -- an agreement with Kimble County to 2 provide these services, and I think those questions have 3 been answered by the fact that we -- that we have previously 4 delivered to them interlocal agreements for their signature. 5 Mr. Budow? 6 MR. BUDOW: I think we're down to that simple 7 fact. In -- in the 10 days or two weeks since we last 8 spoke, we've worked through the protocol with Kimble County 9 and the 9-1-1 people here such that, to your questions at 10 the time, the protocol will be that when a citizen from our 11 subdivision places a call to 9-1-1, given the interlocal 12 agreement approval by -- by the Court, that a telephone 13 call -- not a radio page, not a throw it out in the air and 14 see who catches a signal -- a telephone call will be made 15 directly to the Kimble Sheriff's Office, just like it is 16 today on our fire side, and then they will dispatch it the 17 same way that they currently do the EMS. You had also asked 18 about the response time, and they're committed to four 19 minutes by contract with -- between the VFD, if you will, or 20 the employees of the VFD and the -- and their response time 21 to the EMS center. So, we're continuing to be confident 22 that this is the right solution. We've worked out with the 23 Sheriff's Office that they will also call the helicopter 24 service, so all of that will be coming to us simultaneously. 25 The only thing that -- that we lack at this time is -- is 9-27-04 104 1 really the signature on the interlocal agreement from the 2 County, as -- as I understand it. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm not sure I 4 understand one aspect of this. Is the Kerr County EMS going 5 to -- Kerrville EMS going to continue to answer the call? 6 Where will the call come in to? 7 MR. BUDOW: The call will come to the 9-1-1 8 network. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Here? 10 MR. BUDOW: Yes, sir. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 12 MR. BUDOW: 'Cause that's the way the network 13 is set up. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. 15 MR. BUDOW: And then they will pick up the 16 telephone and call Kimble dispatch. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And not -- and they 18 will not call Kerrville EMS? 19 MR. BUDOW: They will not. But they need 20 your -- they need the interlocal agreement to be approved in 21 order to do that. Otherwise, they're under the obligation 22 then to -- to make that call. So, they need you to say, 23 check, and -- and move on so that they can implement that 24 program. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: As I -- 9-27-04 105 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We earlier had some 2 discussions about -- we were wanting some assurances that 3 the capability of that EMS group over there would be as 4 good, or at least adequate, if not as good as ours. And I 5 appreciate Rosa Lavender's research and excellent article in 6 the West Kerr Current on that. One of the things that 7 Ms. Lavender pointed out is that they have five ambulances 8 over there serving 4,500 people -- no, three ambulances 9 serving 4,500 people, and we have five ambulances serving 10 45,000 people. So, the ratio of ambulances to population is 11 much higher over there. And then she also in there had a 12 rundown of the capabilities of the EMT's, and it's pretty 13 impressive. So, if I lived out at Y.O. Ranchlands, I'd feel 14 like I was in pretty good -- pretty good shape. And they 15 can be there probably 30 minutes earlier or -- or faster 16 than someone coming out of Kerrville. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: As I recall -- go ahead. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Help me understand where we 19 are exactly. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That was my question. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: We've got two interlocal 22 agreements, one between the County -- Kerr County, and 23 Kimble County-slash-Junction. We have another one between 24 the City of Kerrville EMS provider by contract, and Kimble 25 County-slash-Junction, both of which have been approved by 9-27-04 106 1 Kimble County-slash-Junction, but neither of which have been 2 approved by the City of Kerrville or Kerr County. Is that 3 where we are? 4 MR. BUDOW: They were both proposed, provided 5 by the County Attorney of Kerrville -- excuse me, the County 6 Attorney of Kerr and the City Attorney of Kerrville. So, 7 they were provided to Kimble, drafted by, written by, 8 approved by the Kerr County and the Kerrville people. 9 Kimble then just merely signed them and returned them, but 10 never received an executed copy. So, they were -- they were 11 not drafted or provided by the legal experts from the -- 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Has Kerr County -- has this 13 Court, in fact, approved that agreement, and as a result, 14 our County Attorney drafted that? 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: In 2003, a -- a 16 contract between Kerr County and Kimble County was drafted 17 and sent to Kimble County for signature. They signed it, 18 sent it back in, and haven't heard any more about it. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Was that contract drafted at 20 the direction of the Court because the Court approved 21 such -- entering into such an agreement subject to the same 22 being drafted by the County Attorney? 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I can't find a copy 24 of that in the courthouse. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Wasn't that for fire 9-27-04 107 1 services? 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No, it's for 3 emergency medical services. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The '03 agreement? 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: (Nodded.) It's 6 probably a standard mutual aid agreement. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I guess. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, where we're at 9 is, I'm making a motion that we direct the County Attorney 10 to -- to draft an interlocal agreement between Kerr County 11 and Kimble County/Junction for the Kimble County/Junction 12 EMS services to provide EMS services to the Y.O. Ranchlands 13 Estates, and that we authorize the County Judge to sign 14 that. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I thought we have that -- 16 I thought you just said we had that contract. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, apparently we can't -- 18 Commissioner Nicholson has not been able to find where, in 19 fact -- even though the Court apparently directed the County 20 Attorney to do that, he can't find where the Court, in fact, 21 approved that. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But there's a signed 23 copy that exists. Is that what you said? 24 MR. BUDOW: In prior years. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, now I'm even more 9-27-04 108 1 confused. 2 MR. BUDOW: I have a -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: It was signed by Kerr County 4 earlier? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: By Kimble County. 6 MR. BUDOW: By Kimble County. Provided by 7 Kerr County, signed by Kimble, sent back, but never 8 countersigned, I think is the proper terminology. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I don't wish to unduly 10 complicate this, but, number one, I -- I think, as 11 Commissioner Nicholson is suggesting, we need to get the 12 Court's approval if that's the action that we're going to 13 take. But, secondly, I think, because of the existing EMS 14 contract that we have with the City of Kerrville, I think 15 our approval should be contingent upon the City, in fact, 16 consenting to this arrangement, as it were. I think that's 17 an integral part of it. Because, otherwise, we're bound by 18 other emergency medical services with the City of Kerrville 19 here in Kerr County. 20 MR. BUDOW: Exclusively? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, we excluded the 22 helicopter question, but I don't think we excluded the 23 other, is the problem that we have. 24 MR. BUDOW: What can I do to facilitate 25 getting an answer to that? 'Cause we -- 9-27-04 109 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's the same question I 2 had last week, or two weeks ago. The same question, is that 3 the -- if -- for me to vote for this, the City of Kerrville 4 has to agree to change -- to sign off on it. I don't care 5 if they amend the contract or what they do, but we're -- 6 because what will happen now is that they're, by contract, 7 still the primary responsibility. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Your -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can't change that 10 unless that contract is changed. 11 MR. BUDOW: Does this contract not call for 12 certain standards to be met, response time? 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What I would like is 14 for the County Attorney to tell me whether or not it's 15 correct. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I can't make the County 17 Attorney do something. I mean, I've said the same thing for 18 three weeks, three meetings in a row. 19 MR. BUDOW: If you were to vote on an 20 interlocal agreement and approve that, then the onus becomes 21 on the County Attorney to follow through. If they choose 22 not to take action on your motion or approval, then I can -- 23 I can address that. But I -- I can't -- I can't tell them 24 or go after them or pursue them if you're not willing to 25 take a position, and I haven't heard anything contrary to 9-27-04 110 1 approving it other than you can't get them to take action. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: "Them" being? 3 MR. BUDOW: The County Attorney. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can't ever make the 5 County Attorney -- we just don't have that authority. I 6 mean, we can't direct him to do something. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I can understand 8 Commissioner 4's frustration. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I apologize for 10 getting angry, Commissioner. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But the Judge is 12 right; we've got to get, almost simultaneously, or perhaps 13 just in advance of -- of the Kimble agreement, we've got to 14 get the City of Kerrville's consent not to be required to be 15 the principal response to west -- to far west Kerr. 'Cause, 16 by contract, they're obligated to be that. 17 MR. BUDOW: Are they not also obligated to 18 perform under certain standards, or to a certain standard, 19 meet a certain time commitment or -- or provide a certain 20 service within a specified period of time within that 21 contract? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There are some 23 response times for fire. I'm not sure for ambulance. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You have a point. But, I 25 mean, I think to -- to move forward today, which I know 9-27-04 111 1 would make you very happy, I mean, why don't we -- could we 2 not do a -- a motion for us to approve it, you know, in 3 concept, contingent on the City of Kerrville signing off on 4 it, either by amending the interlocal agreement we have 5 with -- the contract we have with them, and authorize you to 6 sign it? That way it doesn't have to come to us again. But 7 you still have to deal with the City of Kerrville and County 8 Attorney. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: That's my whole point. I've 10 got no problem with this Court considering this action, but 11 I don't want to be left hanging out and having it alleged 12 that we're in breach of our EMS contract with the City. And 13 as soon as the City will consent to this proposed agreement 14 that apparently their own attorney wrote and signed off on, 15 you know, that'll -- that'll make it go into effect 16 automatically if this Court approves it here today. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't have any 18 problem with that -- with that approach. Who wants to frame 19 the motion? 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm not sure I 21 understand it. How is that different than us just 22 unilaterally acting and waiting to see if they react to it? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 'Cause we have a 24 contract. Our action could cause us to have a breach of -- 25 of another agreement we already have if they don't agree. 9-27-04 112 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 2 MR. BUDOW: Versus them not meeting a 3 standard that's currently in the contract? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not sure what's in 5 the current contract. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What is the standard 7 you refer to? 8 MR. BUDOW: Well, I'm in the process of 9 trying to get my hands on that, but I thought all of you 10 would have had it and looked it at it by the fact that it's 11 coming up on the budget for review, right? You've been 12 given notice of cancellation. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, that's a year 14 out. That's a year out. 15 MR. BUDOW: So, you -- you'll look at it a 16 year from now when -- when it comes up. Then -- then I 17 guess my -- my concern is -- is that there's a standard 18 that's in that agreement. I can't imagine that they can 19 take three hours or whatever amount of time they want to 20 meet your service requirement. So, whatever it is -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm sure it's a 22 reasonable standard, though. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Mr. Budow, the 24 standard is, quote, "best effort". Beyond "X" miles -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: For example, if they have 9-27-04 113 1 three ambulances and all three ambulances are out on calls, 2 obviously -- well, then it goes to mutual aid agreement; 3 another county will respond. 4 MR. BUDOW: But there's no mutual aid 5 agreement. You haven't provided a backup. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we have a mutual 7 aid agreement with -- 8 MR. BUDOW: Well, but you didn't if it's 9 not -- because it's not signed. If you would have a mutual 10 aid agreement with Kimble, I -- I don't have to call 9-1-1. 11 I can call Kimble directly. The only thing that I'm trying 12 to simplify here is by making one 9-1-1 call and having that 13 call directed to Kimble. If I instruct my subdivision -- 14 our subdivision to call Kimble directly, then we can take 15 9-1-1 and Kerrville entirely out of the loop without any 16 additional responsibility on your part. That would be 17 another alternative, as opposed to just throwing one up and 18 saying, well, do it. But under a contingency -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I was under the 20 impression we had a mutual aid agreement. Let's ask the 21 Sheriff. Don't we have mutual aid agreements with all 22 surrounding counties? 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I believe we do with 24 fire. I'm not sure with -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: EMS doesn't? 9-27-04 114 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think a lot of the 2 fire -- I'm kind of wondering about 2003, if that wasn't 3 really meant for fire, 'cause that was around the time of 4 the Sheppard Rees stuff when they started trying to get into 5 that. 6 MR. BUDOW: These are copies of the Kerrville 7 agreement. I don't -- didn't bring copies of the -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 9 MR. BUDOW: -- Kerr County agreement, but 10 they're very specific, EMS. They're not about fire; they're 11 about EMS. And this is the one drafted by the Kerrville -- 12 City of Kerrville, and there's a similar one drafted by the 13 County of Kerr. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And I know at times out 15 there in the Y.O. Ranchlands, there have been actual times 16 in the past where Kerrville EMS has even asked for Kimble 17 County to respond also, and they get there quicker and that, 18 so there may be some that's operating under. I don't know, 19 but I'm -- 20 MR. BUDOW: This particular agreement was 21 provided by Kyle Young, the Kerrville EMS coordinator. Just 22 -- the fellow that was in here the last time, Eric Maloney, 23 he is temporarily filling in since Kyle left. But this was 24 provided by the Kerrville EMS team. I don't -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But anyway -- okay, I'll 9-27-04 115 1 make a stab at a motion. I'll move that we approve an 2 interlocal mutual aid agreement for emergency medical 3 services between Kerr County and Kimble County, and 4 contingent on approval of -- as to form from the County 5 Attorney, and approval as to -- and approval of the City of 6 Kerrville to a similar agreement, or -- to a similar 7 agreement, and authorize the County Judge to sign the same. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would be an 9 amendment to the Kerrville agreement. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't know how they 11 want to do it. It's something that would accomplish that in 12 the City of Kerrville's -- 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Either by amending the 14 existing EMS agreement that Kerr County has with the -- with 15 the City of Kerrville, or by -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: A mutual aid agreement. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: -- a similar mutual aid 18 agreement which, in essence, consents to this activity. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I second that. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Any 22 further question or discussion? 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What will be the 24 process coordinating this with the City of Kerrville? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Walk it over to Ron 9-27-04 116 1 Patterson. I mean, I'm serious; that's how I would get it 2 done. I think to get -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Hand him this and ask him if 4 he'll sign it. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Get it approved by their 7 counsel. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Get it form-approved by 9 the County Attorney. That should be done. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 11 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 12 your right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I thank you for your 18 patience, Mr. Budow. 19 MR. BUDOW: Thank you. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I apologize for my 21 impatience. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, I think that's all of 23 the timed items that we had, unless I missed something here. 24 Why don't we go back to the -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Item 1. 9-27-04 117 1 JUDGE TINLEY: -- beginning of the agenda, 2 yes. Yes. First item on the agenda is consideration and 3 approval of the Kerr County Community Plan. Mr. Kevin 4 Stanton. Mr. Stanton has been the chairman on the Community 5 Plan that's -- how many meetings have y'all had in the last 6 several months? 7 MR. STANTON: Three. We've had three 8 meetings and a lot of contact by e-mail. But we've been -- 9 we've got a committee of about 22 people that have met and 10 gone over the needs and concerns and -- and produced the 11 Community Plan for 2004-2005. It's been submitted to AACOG 12 for their review, and they've gotten back to us and said 13 that everything that needs to be there is there, and that I 14 just need to bring it before the Commissioners Court for 15 their final approval. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What's the status of 17 the task force? 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't believe he'd 19 have anything to do with that on that part of it. And we 20 haven't heard any more than what -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The way -- wait, I'm 22 fixing to vote on this document, and they are included in 23 it. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right, as -- as set 25 priorities. But as far as what the actual status and what 9-27-04 118 1 the -- 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are they still around? 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They're still here right 4 now. Their budget year doesn't start till June. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And they're going to 6 be here this following year that this plan covers? 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't know. Depends 8 on what the Legislature and State does come June at their 9 budget time. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I move for 11 approval, if that's what we're looking for, approval of the 12 Kerr County plan. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Community Plan. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Community Plan. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll second it. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 17 approval of the agenda item. Any further question or 18 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 19 your right hand. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Thank 24 you very much, Mr. Stanton. 25 MR. STANTON: Just so the -- the 9-27-04 119 1 Commissioners know, AACOG has already set up the grant 2 workshops for the grants that are eligible for -- to be 3 applied for, and if anybody would like to know when those 4 grant workshops are, I'd be happy to give that information 5 to them. And all the grants have to be turned in to AACOG 6 no later than November 19th at 4 o'clock. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Short fuse. 8 MR. STANTON: Thank you. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, sir. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Next item on the agenda is to 12 consider, discuss, and approve the replacement of judges 13 and/or alternate judges for the 2004 general election. 14 Ms. Pieper? 15 MS. PIEPER: Gentlemen, as you'll recall, 16 back in July y'all appointed the judges and the alternates, 17 and since that time we have had a couple that are going to 18 be out of town or, you know, something came up. Precinct 19 215, we need to replace the alternate judge, and the 20 Democratic Chair has submitted the name of Selma Gibson. 21 Precinct 314 alternate judge, Joseph Arredondo. Precinct 22 404 alternate judge, Jane Alley. Precinct 416 judge, we 23 want to change that to James O'Flaherty, and that was 24 submitted by the Republican Chair. And Precinct 320 25 alternate judge with Margaret Steele. 9-27-04 120 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, you want a motion 2 to approve these? So moved. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 5 approval of the replacement or alternate judges as indicated 6 by the Clerk in her presentation. Any further question or 7 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 8 your right hand. 9 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 13 MS. PIEPER: Thank you. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Next item on the agenda is 15 consider and approve costs for copy of the 2004-2005 budget. 16 Ms. Pieper? In years past, that cost has been set by the 17 Court at what? 18 MS. PIEPER: Yes. By law, I have to charge a 19 dollar a page unless I get a court order stating that it's 20 so much -- a certain price per book. In the past, we've 21 gone -- we -- it was $12 one year, and I think $25 one year, 22 $20 one year, so it's just -- there's not ever been a set 23 pattern. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: What is a reasonable cost of 25 copying the number of pages that are included in this year's 9-27-04 121 1 budget? 2 MS. PIEPER: I think $20 would be sufficient. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to 7 set the cost of copy of the '04-'05 budget at $20. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: How many pages is 9 it? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: A hundred and something. 11 MS. PIEPER: Yeah, I haven't counted it. 12 It's going to be pretty thick. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: As I understand the 14 Open Records Act, we can't charge a dollar a page. We can 15 charge something like -- 16 MS. PIEPER: I don't fall under that, though. 17 Not on -- not on something like this. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I can't give you a 19 request for -- Open Records request to see that, and copy of 20 the budget? 21 MS. PIEPER: Yeah, you can give it to me. 22 Then I'm going to send you back a reply that, under Local 23 Government Code 118, by law, I'm supposed to charge you a 24 dollar a page unless I get a court order from the 25 Commissioners. 9-27-04 122 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thank you. 2 MS. PIEPER: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 126 pages, 4 Commissioner. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 6 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 7 your right hand. 8 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 10 (No response.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. The 12 next item is consider and discuss setting the Sheriff and 13 Constable fees as required under Local Government Code 14 Section 118.131. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Don't everybody move 16 at once. Sheriff? 17 MS. UECKER: Judge Tinley -- go ahead. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Go ahead. 19 MS. UECKER: I'd like to make some comments 20 on this, if I could, please. And I -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: You and the Sheriff can fight 22 to see who goes first. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I ain't getting in front 24 of her. She'll whoop me. 25 MS. UECKER: He's probably going to need to 9-27-04 123 1 help me here, and I want to go down from the beginning. And 2 I've got a couple of questions of the Sheriff and a couple 3 of comments. First of all, I don't know what a summons is 4 that you charge $60 for. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A what? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What page are you on? 7 MS. UECKER: It's the proposed Sheriff and 8 Constables' fee. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The order? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There would be -- 11 MS. UECKER: Yeah, last year's order. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 13 MS. UECKER: I don't know what that summons 14 is. If that happens to be the summons in a criminal case 15 for summonsing a witness, that's a $5 fee; that's set by 16 statute. And let me go through and -- 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Go ahead. 18 MS. UECKER: Okay? Going down to writ of 19 garnishment, I can't see that we can justify charging $200 20 for that when the Sheriff's Department serves that or 21 constable serves that. No different than a citation, a 22 subpoena. They walk into the bank and they say, "Here's a 23 writ of garnishment. If you have any questions, call a 24 lawyer or call the Clerk." That's all they do. As opposed 25 to a writ of attachment or writ of execution, where there's 9-27-04 124 1 actually some real responsibility that the Sheriff has to 2 seize property, take possession of, and sell. So, I'd like 3 to see us reduce that writ of garnishment fee. And looking 4 through the -- the fees of the other counties, some have it 5 the same. Many of them don't; the larger counties don't. 6 And I do know that the smaller counties look at what other 7 counties do and say this is what we're going to do. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What would you 9 recommend? 10 MS. UECKER: I would recommend the same as a 11 subpoena or citation, $60. You have a problem with that? 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, my stand on this 13 whole deal is -- I even met with Jannett last week, had her 14 come out to the office looking at changing quite a few of 15 these fees, because there's a lot of these that really do 16 not pertain to the Sheriff's Office, but yet the Sheriff is 17 setting them. Records management fee has nothing to do with 18 my department, and why should I even set it? 19 MS. UECKER: That's the next thing I was 20 going to address in here. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But there are a lot of 22 other ones -- in fact, we came up with a fee scale that 23 would actually be a little bit better and a little bit more 24 concise, but I'm not ready at this time, and after looking 25 at it over the weekend, to actually go into that. I 9-27-04 125 1 compared the 2003 fee scales of all the other counties 2 around, looking at them, and a lot of them had fees in there 3 such as -- and I was thinking about going to a dollar a page 4 for -- for reports or all other copies. But if I look at 5 it, and then look under the Open Records Act, I'm only 6 allowed to charge 10 cents a page, so I don't know what 7 these other counties are doing. What I would recommend is 8 -- and I know Commissioner Nicholson brought this up a while 9 back during -- during budget hearings and that, but there's 10 some things that probably should be changed. But I would 11 recommend the Court this year adopt exactly what it had. 12 The confusion part that we had last year was on the state 13 Comptroller's office and the way they published our fees. 14 They had some confusion in there which caused us a little 15 bit of problem. But right now, I would say it needs to be 16 adopted just as they were last year until we can actually 17 get into it and see -- even getting in with the state 18 Sheriff's Association, see what a good average is all the 19 way across. Some things I think are higher. There's some 20 counties that charge more than us; there's some counties 21 that charge less. On the writ of garnishment this year, I 22 can't say that we've even had one. 23 MS. UECKER: You have. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But if they -- it could 25 also be a writ of garnishment to seize a -- a security 9-27-04 126 1 lockbox at a bank or anything else. 2 MS. UECKER: It's not a writ of garnishment. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You have to be careful 4 with your liabilities part in there. 5 MS. UECKER: That would be writ of 6 sequestration or writ of possession. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Hopefully -- 8 MS. UECKER: But if you get $200 for a writ 9 of garnishment, that only gives notice to the bank to freeze 10 amounts of money that are in someone's account. I'm -- 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are we not required 12 to have this fee schedule in place before -- before we adopt 13 our budget? 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You're required to adopt 15 the fee schedule. That's why I was saying, leave it as we 16 did last year. 17 MS. UECKER: I think it's January 1. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think it's October 19 1. 20 MS. UECKER: Is it October 1? Well, and I 21 don't have a problem with what he's saying with that, except 22 that now -- although these are Sheriff's fees, and you look 23 at the top and it says Sheriff's and Constable Fees, the 24 clerks are the ones that -- anything that originates in Kerr 25 County, we assess those fees and collect them. 9-27-04 127 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Mm-hmm. 2 MS. UECKER: But this is called Sheriff's 3 fees. Now, when you look down at the last paragraph, go 4 past the Brady Bill and the fingerprints, you'll see 5 "Executing/Processing Arrest Warrant" of $50. That's set by 6 the Code of Criminal Procedure 102. It's -- 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 8 MS. UECKER: -- $50. So why should the Court 9 have to set that? Records management fee, that's set by the 10 Government Code and, again, the Code of Criminal Procedure, 11 Commissioners Court. And that fee isn't even correct. In 12 -- on the civil side of it, Courthouse Security fee, in 13 criminal cases, it's $3 on misdemeanors, but it's $5 on 14 felonies, and it's also set by the statute, so I don't know 15 where that came from. The rest of it is okay. I mean, 16 injunctions -- but my question there is, why wouldn't they 17 be put up there in the list with the other writs and notices 18 to serve? I mean -- 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There's a lot that just 20 needs to have both clerks, County Clerk, District Clerk, the 21 constables and myself actually sit down. You're going to 22 have to look at Local Government Code, Code of Criminal 23 Procedure to get what we can change, and then the ones we 24 can't change. 25 MS. UECKER: I've already got that. 9-27-04 128 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They still need to be 2 posted, and they need to be adopted. Just like the warrant 3 fee; even though it states that's got to be a $50 fee, it 4 still has to be adopted and done. 5 MS. UECKER: I don't think so. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: My understanding is it 7 does. That's why I'm saying leave it like it is this year, 8 and let us all sit down and have meetings -- I didn't have a 9 chance to get with constables. I know last year we talked 10 about some of the forcible detainer fees, you know, for a 11 person to actually get somebody evicted out of their house 12 in J.P. court. That costs $200 right now, and it's a little 13 bit hard on people. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're not ready to go. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I can see that. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm not -- I'm not ready 17 to recommend -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So I'll move that we 19 adopt the same fee structure as last year, although I 20 disagree with some of it. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I do too, and I'm 22 wondering why we're having this discussion so late. 23 MS. UECKER: Well, I did not get the agenda 24 for this court until this morning, because I was out 25 Thursday and Friday. You know, had I -- I got it Wednesday. 9-27-04 129 1 I could have worked on it over the weekend, but I got it 2 this morning. So, you know, that -- and I didn't know that 3 this was going to be on the agenda this morning. So -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can we change it during 5 the year? Or do you have to -- is it a -- once a year only? 6 MS. UECKER: Once a year it has to be set. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: They publish a book, 8 and that goes to all the other counties, and they rely on 9 that when they're sending paperwork. 10 MS. UECKER: I think we're probably one of 11 the -- there may be one or two others that -- you know, a 12 lot of the surrounding counties look at us for what we're 13 going to publish. But I -- you know, we -- we have to send 14 this -- not only publish it, but this goes out to all the 15 other counties, and all of them are going, "Why do you have 16 Courthouse Security fee? The Commissioners Court doesn't 17 set that." I know. But, you know, it's in there. And I'd 18 really like to see it -- clean it up. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask a question. 20 We're back in here on Thursday. Could you all get a real, 21 live document for us to adopt by Thursday? Or the Sheriff? 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I have no problem 23 getting a meeting. It's more the research part on each one, 24 what we can legally adopt. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know if that 9-27-04 130 1 was a yes or no. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We can sure try. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: We're back in here on 4 Thursday, but that's not on the agenda for Thursday. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, but we can recess 6 this agenda item. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: For one day. We're here 8 tomorrow. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Three days. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Three days? Okay. But 11 we're here tomorrow, so -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're here tomorrow? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm going to need something to 14 show me about that 3-day business. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Two days? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Go one. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can do it tomorrow. 18 MS. UECKER: Well, this gives us till -- 19 well -- 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How long does the -- 21 MS. UECKER: What Jannett just showed me she 22 got from the Comptroller's office evidently says it has to 23 be, what, adopted by 15th of October? 24 MS. PIEPER: No. It says that, by law, these 25 fees must be set before October 1 and reported to the 9-27-04 131 1 Comptroller's no later than October 15th. 2 MS. UECKER: 15th. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think I'd kind of 4 like for us to have it right. If we're going to send it all 5 over the state, I'd sure hate to see us be the laughingstock 6 with the fee schedule. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Again. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's why I recommend 9 leaving it as we've had them for this year. Next year we'll 10 have time to look at them. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They'll only look bad for 12 one year. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We haven't changed them 14 in several years. They haven't been changed since I took 15 office. And they -- some need to go up; some may need to go 16 down. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What have you been doing? 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't know. I haven't 19 been working, I guess. 20 MS. UECKER: There's been some changes 21 recently. I don't know if -- it was probably about the time 22 you took office, on the execution fees. But any writ of 23 garnishment the Sheriff brings in, he doesn't even have to 24 look for the person. That bank is listed on there. He 25 says, "Here it is. Call the Clerk," you know. 9-27-04 132 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I know there's been 2 one fee that's always stuck in my mind, and I think we talk 3 about it every year, is that the constable -- when someone's 4 removing -- when a property owner's removing a tenant from 5 their property, the constable does that and charges a lot of 6 money for -- 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: $200 for that 8 eviction-type fee. And that's under the J.P. or the 9 constable fees. But if I start setting powers out of our 10 courts a little bit different, then it can really get 11 confusing. That's why I would recommend the constables, the 12 clerks and us all sit down so we have one set fee scale for 13 the county. Until we can do that, leave them as they are. 14 MS. UECKER: I see that in some of them -- 15 and I don't have last year's; I had 2002's -- that the 16 execution fees and the order of sale is -- is minimal. 17 However, the -- evidently, there must be a statute that 18 gives the Sheriff's Department commission up to a certain 19 amount of what is -- 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If you actually do the 21 sales, you can collect a percentage, depending on how much 22 the money is for the sale. 23 MS. UECKER: Yeah. So -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On these -- on the backup 25 that I had, it had Forcible Detainer circled; it says "no 9-27-04 133 1 longer used." So, if it's no longer used, we can at least 2 delete that. No reason to put one on the schedule that 3 doesn't exist any more. Also, there was a typo, and that 4 should be corrected. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I just won't guarantee 6 that all counties don't use forcible detainer. We serve a 7 lot of papers from other counties. That's where these fee 8 scales come from. Our county may not use it, but other 9 counties -- 10 MS. UECKER: I didn't see that listed on any 11 of these others. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We are not ready to 13 go. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Obviously. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: There's a motion before the 17 Court to adopt the -- the current fee schedule that was in 18 effect for this past year. That motion has been seconded. 19 Any further question or discussion -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: -- on the motion? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are we going to correct 23 the typo in the last court order? The one that we're 24 looking at? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What is it? 9-27-04 134 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, it says on my note 2 that under the "All Other Courts' Citations" should be $45, 3 not $60. 4 MS. PIEPER: But it was adopted at 60 last 5 year. Just a misprint in the book. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The book is wrong? 7 Our -- 8 MS. PIEPER: The court order was correct. 9 The book was wrong. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's a mistake the 11 Comptroller made. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 13 discussion on this motion? All in favor of that motion, 14 signify by raising your right hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let me 19 go on to the next highly controversial item, consider and 20 discuss adoption of a resolution proclaiming October as 21 Czech Heritage Month in Kerr County. All you Czechs please 22 step forward. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do we have any Czechs in 24 Kerr County? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm sure there's some 9-27-04 135 1 somewhere. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There's two. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You. You're close. 4 Judge, would you entertain a motion, or do we want to talk 5 about Czechs and -- 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let's have a long, 7 drawn-out discussion. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think 9 Czechs-slash-balances are a good thing to do. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that a motion? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move that we approve 12 the resolution adopting -- proclaiming October as Czech 13 Heritage Month in Kerr County. No? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't -- well, maybe -- 15 I just don't see the point of doing all of these 16 resolutions. They don't have any impact on the County, 17 really. All it does is clog up our paperwork. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Maybe we'll move it to the 19 consent agenda. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Maybe that's where 21 we're headed. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't want it on any 23 agenda. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll second it. 9-27-04 136 1 Let's move on. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: And second for adoption of the 3 resolution. Any further question or discussion? All in 4 favor, signify by raising your right hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. The 9 next item on the agenda is consider and discuss adoption of 10 resolution proclaiming September as Emergency Preparedness 11 Month in Kerr County. We're almost through with September, 12 but we'll get there. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Motion made and 16 seconded for the agenda item. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're okay. I don't 18 mind this one. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Any questions or discussion? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Selective 21 resolutions. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All in favor, signify by 23 raising your right hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 9-27-04 137 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. The 3 next item is Number 10, for those of you trying to keep up, 4 consider and discuss setting the salary, expenses, and other 5 allowances of elected County or precinct officers for Fiscal 6 Year 2004-2005. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move adoption of the 8 salary schedule as published and presented. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where are we -- second. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 11 adoption of the proposed salary, expenses, and other 12 allowances of elected County or precinct officers for Fiscal 13 Year 2004-2005, as published and presented. Any further 14 question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify 15 by raising your right hand. 16 (Commissioners Baldwin, Williams, and Letz voted in favor of the motion.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (Commissioner Nicholson voted against the 19 motion.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Next item 21 on the agenda, consider revision of a plat for Tracts 28A 22 and 28B of the Y.O. Ranchlands, Agenda Item Number 12. 23 MS. HARDIN: Mr. Johnston asked me to be here 24 this morning to present all his agenda items. If I missed 25 the public hearing, I'm sorry. 9-27-04 138 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's been so long 2 ago, we forgot we had a public hearing. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There were only 120 4 people who spoke against it. 5 MS. HARDIN: Okay. It's just removing a lot 6 line, and he has already signed the final plat -- mylar and 7 plat. I'll just leave this here. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move to approve. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 11 approval of the agenda item. Any further question or 12 discussion? All in favor of the motion signify by raising 13 your right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Next 18 item on the agenda is Number 14, consider road name changes, 19 regulatory signs, and road abandonment. 20 MS. HARDIN: The only road name change on 21 here is just a name clarification. The portion of Bee Caves 22 Road that the County maintains was accepted in 1995 under 23 the name of Bee Caves. However, the plat and 9-1-1 have it 24 called Upper Bee Caves Road, so we just needed to clarify 25 our state road list on that name. The regulatory signs are 9-27-04 139 1 a yield on Cedar Springs and stop sign on Acorn to stop at 2 Skyview, another on Fox Trail that also stops to Skyview, 3 and then to set a 45 mile-an-hour speed limit on Center 4 Point River Road. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move to approve. 6 MS. HARDIN: Wait, there's some more. We 7 also ask that you remove Lackey Road; it's been gated and is 8 no longer open to the public. And on the Tegner Creek one, 9 we publicized, but the homeowners did not get the 10 documentation back, so we would need to pull that one from 11 the list. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pulling the last 13 .70 miles? 14 MS. HARDIN: Right. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move to approve. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 18 approval of the agenda item, save and except the last item 19 on abandoning, discontinuing, and vacating, that being the 20 portion of Tegner Creek that's listed. Any further question 21 or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 22 raising your right hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 9-27-04 140 1 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. The 2 next item is Number 15, budget line item transfer in the 3 amount of $2,500 to Victim's Rights Coordinator account to 4 fund computer, printer, office supplies, and conference. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I suppose this item 6 assumes that we're going to fund the -- the Victim's Rights 7 Coordinator's job? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: That's in the proposed budget? 9 I would think so, yeah. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a transfer of 11 $2,500 off of the County Attorney's budget, if I'm reading 12 it correctly. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: The current year's budget to 14 fund those items. 15 MR. MOTLEY: To buy certain things that we'll 16 need next year, go ahead and buy them this year. We have a 17 surplus in the -- I had mentioned to the Court that I 18 thought that I could contribute funds toward -- you know, to 19 help -- I don't know, whatever -- match the court funds in 20 some fashion or some fraction toward the creation of this 21 office. And it's pretty self-explanatory. The amounts 22 would be -- it's for a laptop, telephone, general office 23 supplies, and for the costs of the Victim's Rights 24 Coordinator to attend required training regarding victims 25 issues and such as that in Austin. 9-27-04 141 1 JUDGE TINLEY: That registration would be 2 accomplished -- 3 MR. MOTLEY: It's free. It's free. This is 4 just travel and one night at a hotel. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 6 MR. MOTLEY: And the registration is free. 7 We went by the mileage guide to estimate, you know, the 8 room, meals, and mileage. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 12 approval of the agenda item. Any further question or 13 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 14 your right hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) ( 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Thank 19 you, Mr. Motley. 20 MR. MOTLEY: Yes, sir. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Next item is consider and 22 discuss adoption of the proposed Fiscal Year 2004-2005 Kerr 23 County budget. It's Item 17. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Question. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, sir? 9-27-04 142 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Does the budget that 2 we're about to act on contain the $412,000 payment, or does 3 it not? Auditor's shaking his head negatively. I move 4 adoption of the budget. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: We a motion for adoption of 6 the budget as -- as proposed and presented here today. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I have a 8 second, but I also have a question. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Any question or 10 discussion? Mr. Auditor? 11 MR. TOMLINSON: I have -- since last week, I 12 discovered one -- two omissions. One I didn't find myself, 13 but it was from Environmental Health, and there's an on-site 14 council service fee that we have to remit to the State. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What page are you on? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: 61. 17 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't have the page; I just 18 have the one page that he -- he gave me. It's Line Item 19 434. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: In order for us to make the 22 payment on that fee, we need a budget amount in that line 23 item for $3,500. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How much? 25 MR. TOMLINSON: $3,500. 9-27-04 143 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's not anything new. 2 That's been there for a number of years. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, it's not new, but we 4 don't have anything in there. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right, I understand 6 that, but this is not something that just popped up 7 recently. 8 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, we've paid the fee this 9 year, and -- as you can tell by the amount that we have 10 currently budgeted in '03-'04. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is a fee that 12 goes to the Texas Commission on Environmental Quality? 13 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. Another -- another item 14 is, the County Attorney just reminded me of the fact that -- 15 about -- when he said something about telephone in his -- 16 for this proposed person in his office. Our telephone 17 system is 100 percent full. The last extension that we had 18 available was for the Parole office downstairs in the 19 basement. I -- I have a proposal from -- from Kerrville 20 Telephone Company to upgrade our system, and it's -- I went 21 on a lease basis. In fact, they brought it back to me 22 Friday -- you know, sometime Friday, and the proposal is for 23 $400 a month to upgrade the system -- our telephone system 24 to where we can expand our system with new software to be 25 able to add at least -- I think there's 32 more extensions. 9-27-04 144 1 So, that's the issue that -- that I didn't think about 2 during the process, and so I -- I hurriedly asked for -- for 3 an estimate or a proposal from them, and received it Friday. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where would that go? 5 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, in Nondepartmental. I 6 mean, it's not an item that we could charge directly to -- 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Just -- I'm sorry. 8 MR. TOMLINSON: Go ahead. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: This is in addition to what 10 we're now paying? 11 MR. TOMLINSON: In addition to what we're now 12 paying. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: What are we now paying? 14 MR. TOMLINSON: I can't answer that one. 15 I -- the amount of that bill is -- is within all of the -- 16 all the service -- the rental agreements for -- for the 17 existing system. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you -- are we 19 talking about telephone? 20 MR. TOMLINSON: Hmm? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Telephone? This is 22 telephone expense? 23 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Item 420 in 25 Nondepartmental? That sound reasonable? 9-27-04 145 1 MR. TOMLINSON: That sounds reasonable to me. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: So, what we're talking about 3 doing is -- is doubling that? 4 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't know the answer to 5 what -- to what the existing system is. I just know that we 6 don't have room for expansion, and that's their -- that's 7 their estimate of the cost of -- of doing that for us. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do we need 32 more lines? 9 I mean, couldn't we get, like, eight more lines? Ten? You 10 know, something -- smaller number. I can't imagine we're 11 going to get 32 more -- 12 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, I mean, that's the max. 13 We -- I think that's the minimum of what we can do, from 14 what I am reading in the proposal. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: How much is this 16 costing? 17 MR. TOMLINSON: $4,800. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Additional $5,000 a year, more 19 than 50 percent over and above. I see a real easy solution, 20 to get our line back from the Parole people. That's a state 21 function. That -- 22 MR. TOMLINSON: I can -- I know of two phone 23 lines that we need today. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Does every employee 25 need a phone? I don't. I'll share one with you, Bill. 9-27-04 146 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Want to take messages 2 for me, or I take them for you? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm not playing in 4 this game. 5 MR. TOMLINSON: I mean, we can -- could talk 6 about it at a later time, with -- and take it from the 7 Contingency line item, and -- and out of the Commissioners 8 Court -- or Contingency line item. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: That may be the appropriate 10 solution. 11 MR. TOMLINSON: I just wanted to bring it to 12 your attention, that it is an issue. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It seems like that's an 14 awful lot just for the right to get more phone lines, which 15 is all that is. I mean -- 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is it the right to 18 get them, or is it an expansion card giving you 32 more 19 lines? 20 MR. TOMLINSON: It's actually hardware, 21 equipment. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, yeah. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. But I think there may 24 be another solution to this problem. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do too. 9-27-04 147 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is it -- I'll go a little 2 bit on what Dave said. Is it possible with the system now, 3 like, for David and I to have the same phone number? 4 MR. TOMLINSON: I can't answer that. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that way -- I mean, 6 or there could be one number for the Commissioners; one 7 phone number that we currently have, the 2215 number. 8 Then -- I mean, I don't need a dedicated line in my office. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let's not jump off 10 the deep end here. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: I'd consider giving up my line 12 if I could find anybody to take it. Didn't hear any offers. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's not election time 14 yet. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: That's all I have. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let me amend my 18 motion. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Wait, I have a question 20 still. You want to amend it first? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. I would move 22 adoption of the budget as -- with the amendment as presented 23 by the County Auditor for T.C.E.Q. fees. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question I have, Tommy, 25 without -- I did not have time to go through page-by-page 9-27-04 148 1 and find out why we're about $100,000 bigger budget than we 2 were about a week ago. Between these reports that I have -- 3 the one before this was $5,575,000 or so. The new one is 4 $5,480,000 in reserves. Do you know where that change came? 5 I don't really recall any court meetings between the last 6 two runs. 7 MR. TOMLINSON: We did -- there was some 8 errors in -- in the position schedules with Road and Bridge 9 and the Sheriff's Office. I -- I can't be real definitive 10 as to the exact amount that that caused, but that's a lot of 11 it. I can't think of anything -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: In the -- 13 MR. TOMLINSON: Commissioner, I'm somewhat 14 confused, too. I printed this thing, like, six times, and I 15 don't remember from one time to the next which one's which. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm looking at the 17 September 8th and the September 21st; those are the two that 18 I have. I guess I see -- looking at it, I see a change 19 there in the September 8th; there was a line item for 20 Juvenile Detention of 171,000, and that is not included in 21 the 921. But the 171,000, that was not the -- what was 22 that, operating? 23 MR. TOMLINSON: That was the cash balance. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh. 25 MR. TOMLINSON: That didn't have anything to 9-27-04 149 1 do -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's right. I'm sorry. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: I took -- I took that out 4 because of the issue of -- that we talked about today. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That would -- taking that 6 out would adjust that total number. Okay. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Actually, between -- between 8 your 8th and 15th, General Fund expenditures are down by 9 about 110 -- $106,000, looks like. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mm-hmm. It's -- that was 11 the Juvenile Detention. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any further question or 13 discussion on the motion? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. I'd like to 15 take us to Page 72, and I want you all to refresh my memory 16 how this thing worked. And this is the volunteer fire 17 departments and Forest Service grant match. How did we -- 18 how did we do this? I remember when Mr. Feller came in and 19 asked for a grant match for two towers in the county. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Two towers and repeaters, as I 21 recall, Commissioner. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's correct. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: The current or the last stated 24 cost for this year, which has since gone by, was 130. The 25 estimated cost in the future was an increase of 10 percent, 9-27-04 150 1 a little bit more, so we estimated 150. It was a 10 percent 2 match. That's how we got to the 15,000. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And in the -- in the 4 first conversation we had with him, we asked the question -- 5 or Commissioner Letz did, "Would you rather have your annual 6 funding or the two towers?" And somehow that -- you don't 7 recall that? Somehow -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I did. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- that dropped 10 through the cracks, and here we are funding both the Forest 11 grant match, as well as the annual funding. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I understood -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Help me get to that 14 point. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I understood it to be not 16 totally in lieu of annual funding, but in lieu of, say, 17 $1,000 to each department increase. Would you rather each 18 have $1,000, or put it down here in the pool for the grant 19 match? That's how I understood it. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That was my 21 understanding, too. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. So, it was 23 13 -- for each department, $13,000, current budget, and 24 $13,000 recommended in the '04-'05 budget, so that number 25 didn't change? Or we did -- or we decreased it? Or -- 9-27-04 151 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: As I understand it, there 2 was no change from last year's funding. The $15,000 was 3 there, and if all of the fire departments sign off on 4 wanting that grant instead of their funding, then we will, 5 you know, do it on the grant. If they don't all sign off -- 6 we really didn't decide what we were going to do if they 7 don't all sign off. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. And then Number 9 4 comes back in and says that they all signed off. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: They told me they 11 all signed off. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I know that all fire 13 departments were not at the last KARFA meeting. I think we 14 really need something in writing from each fire department, 15 what they want. I mean, just to make sure. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Because they're not 17 all on board here with this. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I -- we built this 20 thing, I think, because the way I heard it was that they had 21 all voted and approved the issue, but they -- they have not. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the grant match would 23 not be automatic, Commissioner. This Court would have to -- 24 the Court would have to actually make application for the 25 grant and approve the specific grant, as well as authorize 9-27-04 152 1 this money that's budgeted for that purpose, so it's not an 2 automatic. It would have to come here again. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand that. 4 Now, was there a time frame for them to get the grant issue 5 going? 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It opens up once a 7 year. They thought it would open up this fall, and I think 8 I recently heard it won't open up this fall; it'll be next 9 spring. So, there's some time to go before the -- the 10 window of opportunity opens. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that the -- just 13 to piggy-back that discussion a little bit, KARFA needs to 14 be, you know, told we need to get this in writing, and -- 15 and they need to do whatever they can to get it unanimous, 16 because it's going to cause a real problem if it's not 17 unanimous. I don't know how we're going to decide what 18 we're going to do then. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: If it was -- if 20 there was a vote and it was unanimous, it should be in their 21 minutes, so one -- one approach is to ask for a copy of 22 their minutes. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But if all the fire 24 departments weren't present -- 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 9-27-04 153 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- that may not -- I 2 think we really need to get each fire department -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Actually, they didn't 4 even vote on this issue at all. They did vote, but it was 5 on a separate issue with 9-1-1, totally separate. So, I 6 mean, they have not even addressed this. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I wasn't there. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd like to see it in 10 writing actually from each volunteer fire department. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, that can be a 12 requirement that the Court imposes as a condition of going 13 forward with making application for the grant and 14 authorizing the expenditure of these funds. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I would think that 17 would need to be done pretty soon. I mean, the spring is -- 18 springing. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And fall is falling. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: God. That's all I 21 have to say. I just -- 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Sheriff had something he 23 wanted to enlighten you about. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is good. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Not about that part of 9-27-04 154 1 it. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: About something else. 4 Just something I need to bring up before y'all actually take 5 a vote. My understanding is, on the Juvenile Detention 6 Facility, that if this Court doesn't act -- or doesn't at 7 least fund the operations part of it, or some part of it, 8 that facility is very likely going to have to lock their 9 doors October 1 or October 15th, and that would be 10 devastating to this county. Because of the operations; they 11 won't be able to operate. And that just needs to be -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where did you get 13 your information, Sheriff? 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: From our Auditor. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I might -- I just -- 16 I think there are budget implications there, and I really 17 think the Juvenile Board needs to schedule a meeting with 18 the Commissioners Court to go over what we're going to do, 19 if anything. I really think the full Juvenile Board needs 20 to be present, not just the Judge. I feel sorry for the 21 Judge; we beat up on him. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I just -- you know, we 23 talk about a lot of things, but that is one that would have 24 a serious impact on this county very quickly, if those doors 25 shut. 9-27-04 155 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mr. Tomlinson, is 2 that an automatic or is that a probable? 3 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't -- we don't have the 4 numbers for the population for September, but my 5 calculations are that by -- from the funds we have left over 6 from -- from the payroll for the 15th and the payroll we're 7 doing today, and the bills that are going to come due on 8 October the 1st, we might -- if we -- if the funds become 9 available for the revenues that we receive or earn in 10 September, we -- there's an outside chance that we can make 11 the payroll on October the 31st. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: For October 31st? 13 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. And that -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can make October 15th? 15 MR. TOMLINSON: I'm -- I feel relatively sure 16 that we can make the 15th, but I won't absolutely say that 17 we can make -- make the 31st, because if we operate through 18 the 31st, we will have another $25,000 to $30,000 in 19 operating costs that we -- that will come due in November, 20 that we've incurred, that we have to pay. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the -- I 22 certainly don't want to, you know, spend taxpayer dollars 23 trying to keep that facility afloat when there's no chance 24 of any kind of recovery out there, but I also don't think 25 it's appropriate for us just to -- I mean, to turn our heads 9-27-04 156 1 the other way, either. I think there are bondholders that 2 need to be talked to. I think the Juvenile Board needs to 3 have input. I think Ms. Harris needs to have input. And I 4 think that -- I mean, not to mention the fact that we have 5 Kerr County juveniles that need to go somewhere for part of 6 the time. Even if it's worst-case, I can almost see 7 shutting down part of the facility, just to keep enough for 8 the Kerr County kids to go in. But I think that -- I 9 don't -- I suspect that we're making it very difficult on 10 Ms. Harris to go out and get business when we're in the 11 paper that that thing is a day-to-day operation. So, I 12 think this Court needs to really seriously consider -- 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And the other problem -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- some amount of time 15 that we were going to, you know, fund the operation. And 16 that period is -- in my mind, is pretty short, until 17 everything's worked out. But also, I think -- I mean -- 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The other problem she's 19 facing is, I am even today receiving applications, one after 20 another, from her current staff members trying to find jobs. 21 MS. HARRIS: Thank you for telling me that. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Sorry. It's going to 23 create a very hard problem on that facility if some action 24 is not taken. And we need that facility. 25 MS. HARRIS: And I need to know if I need to 9-27-04 157 1 proceed with hiring that full-time Q.C.C. that's required by 2 the State for that substance abuse program. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But those things are 4 in the budget that the Juvenile Detention Board adopted, or 5 should have been in that budget. They're not in our budget. 6 MR. TOMLINSON: Never have been. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand. And 8 the only thing in terms of what's before this Court right 9 now is whether or not to underwrite the bond, that bond 10 appropriation. We can't be delving into a budget we've 11 never seen, heard of, or have any idea what's in it. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think you're right. 13 That -- I mean, I'm not saying we should modify our current 14 budget today. What I'm saying is that we may have to look 15 at -- but that doesn't mean that we pass this budget and 16 then turn our head the other way. I think we need to keep 17 on looking at it right away, and if we need to do a -- an 18 amendment to our budget as soon as we adopt it, we need to 19 consider that. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree with that. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: We've got to look at the 22 operational requirements and what we want to do on the -- on 23 a prospective basis. I don't think there's any question 24 about it. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, back to the 9-27-04 158 1 Sheriff's point of alarm. Where are we? 2 MR. TOMLINSON: I just explained that. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me see if I can answer 4 that, Commissioner. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Please do. Please, 6 Judge, help me out. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Under the terms of the lease 8 agreement, if the Court nonappropriates, it will be 9 necessary for notification to go to the trustee and 10 surrender, quote, control to the trustee. Now, the trustee 11 at that point has a decision to make as to whether or not 12 the trustee wants to, on behalf of the bondholders, close 13 the facility, which is one option, or to continue to allow 14 it to operate. I strongly believe that the trustee will 15 want to choose the latter course of action. The first 16 course of action will do nothing except devalue that 17 facility and the bondholders' position, whereas the latter 18 course of action will give an opportunity for the matter to 19 be hopefully resolved in a way that everyone can live with, 20 and we'll get some solution to this problem. But once a 21 nonappropriation occurs, the control will be relinquished to 22 the trustee. And if you think somebody from New York's 23 going to come down here and operate this facility, you got 24 another think coming, because they know -- they have done 25 their homework, and they know that Ms. Harris, more than 9-27-04 159 1 probably any other person in this state, is the best-suited 2 person to operate this facility that can be found under any 3 circumstances, the best of circumstances. We're fortunate 4 to have her here under the worst of circumstances. It's not 5 much consolation to her at this point, but there have 6 already been expressions of confidence in some of the 7 bondholders in her ability. But I can't tell you what the 8 trustee's going to do, but I'd be willing to -- to make book 9 on it, if somebody wants to -- wants to approach it on that 10 basis, and I'd give them some odds. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think I share your 12 opinion. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understood 14 Mr. Henderson to say that nonappropriation is what triggers 15 negotiations. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: It will also, because it gives 17 the trustee the legal authority to act on behalf of the 18 bondholders. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just don't see how 20 you can get down the road without that. I just don't see 21 it. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Otherwise, he has no authority 23 to legally act on behalf of these various bondholders. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: He just has no legal authority 9-27-04 160 1 under the trust agreement. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the way I 3 understood it. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Where do they get their 6 operational costs? It's separate than the appropriations. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The trustee will come to 8 us and probably ask us. We'll discuss it with the trustee, 9 I presume. 10 MR. TOMLINSON: Judge, I'd like to make one 11 comment. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Surely. 13 MR. TOMLINSON: In 1992 -- '93 -- I'm not 14 exact on the dates, but this Court, they were in the process 15 of deciding whether or not they wanted to fund operations on 16 the detention facility. In fact, in '92 or '93, we actually 17 got drawings from -- from an architect to -- to give us a 18 rough design of a facility to go over where the recycle 19 center is, and along about that time came Recor. And that's 20 -- you know, the Court and the Juvenile Board at that time 21 saw an opportunity to have a facility without -- with 22 minimum cost to the County. I don't think that that Court 23 at that time, or the board, either one, thought that -- that 24 that arrangement would last forever. I mean, I think they 25 thought that -- that sometime in the future, Kerr County -- 9-27-04 161 1 that facility would -- would belong to Kerr County. So, you 2 know, in '94 we built a 192-bed jail, and we had 70, 80, 90 3 prisoners. So, you know, the Court, you know, took it to 4 the voters and the voters said, "Okay, let's build it," and 5 I think it was an investment in the future. I think that 6 was their thought. And it's my opinion that -- that this 7 facility is an investment in the future for -- for Kerr 8 County and the rehabilitation of, you know, juvenile 9 offenders in this county. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tommy, what does Kerr 11 County spend at that facility each year? Just average for 12 the last couple years. 13 MR. TOMLINSON: Probably 100,000, 120,000 a 14 year. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you know, Kevin? 16 MR. STANTON: I'm sorry, sir? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you have any idea? 18 MR. STANTON: It's close between 100 and 125 19 thousand a year. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: That's Kerr County funds. 21 There's some additional funds that -- that are possibly 22 spent out of State moneys out here, aren't there? 23 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I don't 9-27-04 162 1 disagree, Mr. Tomlinson, with your comments about the 2 future, but I think one of those elements for making it 3 succeed in the future is to find a way to restructure the 4 debt. And if we can't restructure the debt, then it's -- 5 then it really doesn't look like it's promising for the 6 future, in my -- in my mind. So, I'm in favor of trying to 7 figure out a way to reserve it, restructure the debt and 8 move forward. And if the only way we can do the restructure 9 of the debt is to trigger the action of the trustee to sit 10 down and work out that -- try to work out that 11 restructuring, then I don't know that there's an alternative 12 course of action. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Alternative is that 15 we don't have to have a Juvenile Detention Center. 16 Obviously, many counties don't have them. We were banking 17 on that business to -- to make this one viable. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Any -- any other questions or 19 comments on the motion? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What's the motion? To 21 adopt the budget? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion is to adopt the 23 budget as presented, with the exception of the inclusion of 24 the sum of $3,500 under the Environmental Health budget for 25 on-site council fees to T.C.E.Q. 9-27-04 163 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You have a second and 2 everything? I seconded it. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. I'm ready. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All in favor of the motion, 6 signify by raising your right hand. 7 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 9 (No response.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Why 11 don't we take about a 15-minute recess here, and give 12 Ms. Kathy a break. 13 (Recess taken from 2:37 p.m. to 2:54 p.m.) 14 - - - - - - - - - - 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to 16 order. We were in recess for 15 minutes, and now back. 17 Let's go to Item 21, set a public hearing for the revision 18 of plat for Tracts 29 and 35 of Kerr Vista Ranch, Section 19 Four, located in Precinct 4. 20 MS. HARDIN: On September the 13th, we were 21 -- there was a notice published by the Clerk's office, and 22 we let it slip by and there was no public hearing set, so we 23 have to start over to set that public hearing for that plat. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: 30-day notice? 25 MS. HARDIN: Yes, sir. 9-27-04 164 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. What date do you 2 suggest? 3 MS. HARDIN: November the 8th. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: When did you say? 5 MS. HARDIN: November the 8th. I think I had 6 it at 10:00 -- I'm sorry. November the 8th. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: 10 a.m.? 8 MS. HARDIN: Kathy, do you have a time 9 preference? 10 MS. MITCHELL: No, that's fine. 11 MS. HARDIN: 10 o'clock? Okay. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: You're suggesting a public 13 hearing be set November the 8th of '04 at 10 a.m. for the 14 revision of plat for Tracts 29 and 35 of Kerr Vista Ranch, 15 Section Four? 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I move to set that 17 hearing. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: At 10 a.m., November 20 the 8th. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Any 22 question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify 23 by raising your right hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 9-27-04 165 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Next 3 item is consider advertising for bids on Road and Bridge 4 capital outlays that are not available on government 5 purchasing programs. 6 MS. HARDIN: We have two items, one being a 7 truck-mounted water distributor, a used one, and a 8 truck-mounted asphalt distributor, both being used. And so, 9 therefore, we could not get those on state purchasing. On 10 the chip spreader, we're having a little bit of difficulty 11 finding a chip spreader that falls within the budget, so we 12 may have to do a used one. And so, at this time, if we 13 can't get it on state purchasing, we would like permission 14 to go out for bid on that one, too. And you have two bid 15 packets for the -- the distributors in here. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Who moved? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: What motion did you second, 19 Commissioner? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just -- I'm looking 21 for one to pop up just any minute now. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: I see. Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't want him to 24 hang out there. I'll move it. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: That was the one you were 9-27-04 166 1 seconding, Commissioner? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's exactly the one 3 right there. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I see. Motion made and 5 seconded for approval of the agenda item. Any question or 6 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 7 your right hand. 8 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 10 (No response.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Next 12 item is consider setting a public hearing concerning 13 regulatory signs, school zones, and road acceptance. What's 14 the proposed date and time? 15 MS. HARDIN: November the 8th at 10:45. And 16 we would like to reset the school zones at Nimitz, put 17 no-parking signs on Center Point River Road, and accept 18 Business Park West. That was a road that was built to 19 County specifications that should have been accepted 20 sometime in the past year. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where is Business 22 Park Drive West? 23 MS. HARDIN: It's in the Cutoff Business Park 24 that was built on Goat Creek Cutoff by Mr. Jenschke, and it 25 was inspected and accepted -- I mean, but there was one -- 9-27-04 167 1 there's a bond that goes in for one year, and when that 2 expires, then the County is asked to take it over. And that 3 bond has expired. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is there a need for 5 us to do anything about the item that the Sheriff and you 6 have been talking about earlier, about the school awareness 7 sign on Stoneleigh Road in front of the stadium? 8 MS. HARDIN: No, sir. That is just simply a 9 warning sign. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, thank you. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Truby, explain 12 something to me here. On the reset school zone for Nimitz 13 Elementary, the third little item down, the Loyal 14 Valley/Valley View deal. 15 MS. HARDIN: Yes? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Kind of try to make me 17 understand what you're talking about, 200 feet south of 18 Ranchero Road. 19 MS. HARDIN: The school zone runs from 20 Ranchero Road from the first blinking light to the last 21 blinking light, and then every intersection coming off of 22 Ranchero for 200 feet. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 24 MS. HARDIN: So -- and we now have signs 25 posted that say "school zone," and -- I mean, it's 200 feet, 9-27-04 168 1 I believe. And then what we will do is just put an "End of 2 School Zone" sign at the 200 -- once you get off of Ranchero 3 Road for that -- at that intersection for 200 feet. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 5 MS. HARDIN: It's north and south and east 6 and west, depending on the intersection. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. The number, 8 480 feet, threw me a little bit. 9 MS. HARDIN: Four hundred -- okay. That's 10 the Valley View. When you go up beside the church and go up 11 the hill, the school zone is set for 480, but there's a 12 crosswalk there. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. So, it's a 14 little bit -- 15 MS. HARDIN: It's a little bit further. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- further. Little 17 bit further than the regular one. 18 MS. HARDIN: We'll install those "End of 19 School Zone" signs at the termination point of each 20 intersection. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, we're eliminating 22 that dead zone in the middle. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Are we eliminating that, 24 too? 25 MS. HARDIN: Yes. The school zone will -- 9-27-04 169 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: From blinking light to 2 blinking light. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. 4 MS. HARDIN: I can give you a copy of this, 5 if you like. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'll get it after it's 7 adopted. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Truby, the question I 9 have on the no-parking signs -- or, Bill, one of y'all, 10 where -- can you tell me where this is? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There's a new bar on 12 C.P. River Road -- reasonably new bar, and people are 13 parking all over the place. There's one particular house 14 that's impacted badly, 'cause it's across the street. And 15 C.P. River Road, as you know, is -- is narrow through there; 16 there's no extra room for people to park on the paved 17 surface of the easement. And the parking is just getting 18 out of hand, to the point that one night somebody almost 19 took his gas meter and lines out. So we really need just to 20 end it right in that area, right by that bar. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How far -- 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It would be on 23 Bowlin, and will be on -- well, west of Bowlin, on the north 24 side of the road for 666, on the south side of 345. That 25 kind of -- that kind of flares out. 9-27-04 170 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just leaving everything 2 east of Bowlin? People can park there? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: East of Bowlin, yeah. 4 MS. HARDIN: Yeah. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: East of Bowlin, you can 6 park. You can't park west. 7 MS. HARDIN: There's driveways and gates and 8 different things that -- 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It should be noted, 10 too, that, you know, the owner and operator of that bar has 11 -- I guess he's purchased a lot, or at least he's leased a 12 lot there and has fenced it, and it's open for parking for 13 patrons to his bar. But, you know, they roll up there in 14 trucks and hop out, and they don't care where they park. 15 You know, they're too lazy to go in the parking lot, and 16 they're creating problems for some of the residents. 17 MS. HARDIN: And the Sheriff's Department 18 can't give them a ticket because it's public right-of-way. 19 So, we will post no-parking signs at each end of that with 20 the arrow pointing towards the middle, and one in the 21 middle, so it's very clear as to where the no-parking zone 22 is. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Move we set a public 24 hearing to -- concerning regulatory signs, school zone, and 25 road acceptance for November 8th at 10:45. 9-27-04 171 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 3 approval of the agenda item as indicated. Any question or 4 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 5 your right hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Next 10 item is consider releasing Letter of Credit Number 2004-02 11 issued for Hermosa Subdivision. 12 MS. HARDIN: Mr. Frank Vlasek built the 13 subdivision off of Lange Ravine Road. He has completed the 14 road. The County Engineer has inspected it. We have an 15 engineer from -- an independent engineer who's written a 16 letter stating that the road meets specifications, and so we 17 will release his Letter of Credit saying that he has 18 completed all things that he was asked to do. Except we 19 want to -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Does the letter from the 21 independent engineer have the engineer's seal on it? 22 MS. HARDIN: Yes, sir. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: And it warrants that the 24 roads, as put into place, meet the County specifications? 25 MS. HARDIN: Yes, sir. 9-27-04 172 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move to approve. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 5 approval of the agenda item. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Mr. Vlasek couldn't 7 have had worse luck on this. He got that -- got that road 8 mostly in, and one of those 5- or 6-inch rains came along 9 one night and washed all -- almost all of the work out that 10 he had done. It's been an uphill battle for him. 11 MS. HARDIN: After such time, he insured it. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 13 comment? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 14 your right hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Next item, 19 set a public hearing for the revision of a plat for Lots 20 Number 21 and 22 into Lot 21A, The Reserve of Falling Water, 21 and revision of plat for Lots 6, 7E, and 7W into Lot 6R, The 22 Reserve of Falling Water, all located in Precinct 3. 23 MS. HARDIN: We're requesting that public 24 hearing for November the 8th at 10:15. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 9-27-04 173 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to 3 set a public hearing for November 8th, '04, at 10:15 a.m. 4 for the public hearing for the revision of plats as 5 indicated in the agenda item. Any further question or 6 comment? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 7 your right hand. 8 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 10 (No response.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 12 MS. HARDIN: Have I one question on -- for 13 future reference, if we have to set three public hearings, 14 as we did today, is it possible to put that on one agenda 15 item to set public hearings? Or do we have to do each one 16 of them individually? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't see anything 18 wrong with it. I mean, I think it would be fine. I don't 19 know what difference it makes. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Incorporate all of 21 them in one advertisement, too? 22 MS. HARDIN: No, they would still have 23 different advertisements. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think you could do them 25 at one time; just put different times. As long as you break 9-27-04 174 1 them out. They have to be three different public hearings, 2 I think. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: They would have to be three 4 different public hearings. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the notice could be 6 -- or the agenda item could be one item, I think. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think you could 8 incorporate it into one notice, too; just so you have three 9 different blocks, three different times, three different 10 items. 11 MS. HARDIN: I don't know if the Clerk can do 12 that or not. When you advertise for public hearing, each 13 one has to have a separate ad? 14 MS. PIEPER: I think it has to be separate. 15 MS. HARDIN: Some of them run for different 16 time periods. Like, if it's a public hearing for a 17 subdivision, it might be different than a public hearing for 18 closing a road, whatever. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I think from 20 the -- if we do it under one agenda item, we're still going 21 to have to have three motions. 22 MS. HARDIN: Three court orders. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Three court orders. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Doesn't change 25 anything. 9-27-04 175 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Doesn't change anything. 2 I'd leave it probably the way it is. 3 MS. HARDIN: Okay, thank you. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The costs of these 5 notices is troublesome. I don't know if there's a solution. 6 You've probably considered solutions, but one thought that 7 occurred to me is that -- is it possible we could run these 8 in the West Kerr Current? Would that satisfy the law? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Has to have 10 county-wide circulation. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: I think the language in the 12 statute is a newspaper of general circulation in the county. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Correct. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Is the statutory language. 15 That brings up another point, however. We had a contract 16 rate with -- with both the Kerrville Daily Times and the 17 Kerrville Mountain Sun, and I think the contract rate for 18 this year for the Mountain Sun was cheaper. And that 19 publication ceased to be published as a newspaper of general 20 circulation -- or I'm not sure exactly what -- what they 21 call it now. But I would like to ask the Clerk to go back 22 and make sure that any of the advertisements that ran in 23 excess of the minimum amount, as specified in the Daily 24 Times contract, that we're paying the Mountain Sun contract 25 rate, because I think we're entitled to that rate. 9-27-04 176 1 MS. PIEPER: They're giving us the -- both -- 2 the low rate on the Daily Times. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: They're giving us the Mountain 4 Sun rate? 5 MS. PIEPER: Yes. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I've got no quarrel 7 with it, then. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Best we can hope 9 for. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, surely. Okay. Next 11 item, consider and discuss the process to select the 12 individual to fill the unexpired term of Justice of the 13 Peace, Precinct 3. Commissioner Letz. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. I put this on the 15 agenda. Since last meeting, you recall that Kari O'Dell 16 resigned, J.P. 3. At that meeting, her effective date was 17 September 30th, but since then -- and I believe you've 18 probably all received a copy of her letter -- she wishes to 19 make that effective date October 21st, which will probably 20 make things a little bit better from a replacement 21 standpoint. I put together this handout, a brief outline of 22 the way I recommend that we fill this position. I think 23 that we would, you know, make a public announcement of the 24 vacancy today, which we are doing right now. Also announce 25 today that any qualified person that would like to be 9-27-04 177 1 considered should submit a letter or resume, any other 2 pertinent information to the Commissioners Court to my 3 attention, being as it is my precinct, by October 4, 2004, 4 at 5 p.m. I would then put this on the next agenda, will 5 provide the Court and all the -- you know, all the names, 6 and provide a full packet of the information with Kathy so 7 each of the Commissioners can look at the full packet if 8 they choose. I don't think we really need to make a whole 9 lot of copies of that as long as they're available for 10 everyone to look at. Then we will discuss the appointment 11 at the next meeting and make a selection at that time. Or, 12 if we so choose, at that next meeting we can narrow it down, 13 ask some of them to come in, and interview them at the later 14 meeting. But I think the first thing is to find out exactly 15 who is truly interested. We have -- well, I have received, 16 I guess, four -- I believe four or five -- I guess four 17 serious applicants. I've heard of some others that are 18 going to apply. I don't know if they will or not. But I 19 think, just so we can get the -- get it filled as quickly as 20 possible. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: All these dates hold, 22 even with the resignation being the same? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. And I think that -- 24 and I put the last thing on here, the appointment will 25 become effective November 1st, which I think we can meet 9-27-04 178 1 that without any problem. And we can have the first meeting 2 of October to look at it again, look at the applicants. If 3 we're ready to make a decision then, we can. If not, we can 4 postpone it till the second meeting of October. And if we 5 want to have anybody come in for interview, you know, or 6 whatever at that time, I, you know, will probably -- you 7 know, probably look the names, make some comments based on 8 talking with them. I think I've talked to most of them 9 already that are applying, that I'm aware of, and would 10 encourage the rest of the Court to do the same if they so 11 choose. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I move to approve 13 the process proposed by Commissioner Letz. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 16 approval of the process as proposed by Commissioner Letz for 17 the selection of the individual to fill the unexpired term 18 of J.P. Precinct 3. Any further question or discussion? 19 All in favor of that motion, signify by raising your right 20 hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Next item on the agenda is to 25 consider and discuss the appointment or designation of 9-27-04 179 1 person or persons to act as temporary Precinct 3 Justice of 2 the Peace pending selection of Precinct 3 Justice of the 3 Peace to serve until the next general election. By way of 4 background, the Treasurer called me last week after Judge 5 O'Dell indicated her desire to serve an additional period of 6 time, after she had initially indicated to the Court that 7 she wanted to serve through September 30th, and indicated 8 that because of the content of her initial resignation, and 9 a previous case in -- in which there was a resignation, and 10 some of the legal aspects of it, that she would be unable to 11 continue to pay -- to pay anybody for that position beyond 12 September 30th. And so this -- this will bridge the gap. 13 And if the process that we've just selected is going to be 14 effective November 1, why, we need to fill that gap. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's better to be lucky 16 than smart, because this was put on the agenda before we 17 knew what Ms. O'Dell was going to do, knowing that we had to 18 do this, so it worked out that way. I'll make a motion that 19 we appoint Kari O'Dell to fill the -- temporarily fill the 20 J.P. 3 position until October -- till November 1st. Till 21 November 1st. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 24 the appointment of Judge Kari O'Dell to act as temporary 25 J.P., Justice of the Peace, pending -- until November 1st, 9-27-04 180 1 pending selection of Precinct 3 J.P. Any further question 2 or discussion? 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Just one question 4 for clarification. She had indicated a new effective date 5 of her resignation of the 21st of October, so is she going 6 to extend her employment till the end of October? Or is it 7 just going to be vacant for that nine days? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 21st? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It will be vacant for 10 that nine days. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's good. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: We have it available so that 13 we've got no loss in continuity of that position. She may 14 decide to stay an additional nine days or 10 days, whatever. 15 Any further question or discussion? All in favor of the 16 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 17 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Next 21 item is consider and discuss approval of a grant application 22 for Help America Vote Act funds and adoption of the 23 appropriate and necessary resolution in connection 24 therewith. This is the voting machines that we had in the 25 budget that I think we've removed, if I'm not mistaken. 9-27-04 181 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We removed the 2 funding for that. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. These are the grant 4 funds that we have available. Under Education, $7,000. For 5 the equipment, we have $51,000 and that was the number that 6 was earlier furnished. And then, under the various 7 compliance components, we had almost $45,000; actually, 8 $44,847.11. Ms. Pieper, where -- where are you with respect 9 to this? 10 MS. PIEPER: I haven't studied it a whole 11 lot, but I do have a question. Back when they were first 12 talking about the grant funding, if you'll remember, in our 13 last budget, if we decreased that budget by any amount, that 14 was going to automatically knock us out of eligibility for 15 the grant. So now I'm wondering, if we don't fund our 16 portion of it, is that going to do the same thing? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why would it knock us 18 out of eligibility to apply? 19 MS. PIEPER: That's what we were told by 20 Secretary of State's office the last election school I went 21 to. So -- 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If there's a 23 condition of a match, the match would be predicated on the 24 approval of the grant. Then it becomes a condition of the 25 match, does it not? 9-27-04 182 1 MS. PIEPER: I don't know. I don't know how 2 all that works. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I think that -- 4 MR. TOMLINSON: Commissioner, I read the 5 letter from the Secretary of State. It appears to me that 6 it's a -- that it's a reimbursable grant, no match. You 7 have to spend it first and then apply for -- to get 8 reimbursed for what you spend. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. We have until 10 '06 to make that happen? 11 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't -- the letter I read 12 I don't think speaks to how long you have to get it done. 13 MS. PIEPER: I think if we wait till '06, 14 that's not going to give me enough time between January 1 15 and our first election to do all the training. And -- 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I thought we 17 discussed this in the budget meetings, where -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- the budget 20 process, by including it in the '05-'06 budget, it gives you 21 ample time. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's correct. 23 MS. PIEPER: I was talking with -- with Kim 24 Phillips in the Secretary of State, and she brought up the 25 question of is that going to be enough time for me on 9-27-04 183 1 training all the other election judges that I have to train? 2 For me, I don't see a problem with me and my office staff, 3 but I don't know about the actual judges that will work out 4 in the different various polling locations. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: When's the first 6 election after October 1, 2005? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Six. 8 MS. PIEPER: November. We'll have a general 9 election. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In '06. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: '06. 12 MS. PIEPER: We have an election every 13 November. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The first election 15 you'll really be concerned with would be the general 16 election of '06; is that correct? November '06? 17 MS. PIEPER: No, it will be the primary of 18 that March. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, March. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, we might budget 21 some funds to be effective October 1, 2005. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: That's correct. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Then we'd have -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Six months. 25 MS. PIEPER: Yeah, that should work, then. 9-27-04 184 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what we talked 2 about in budget. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's right. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, do we need to do 6 this -- we're just doing the resolution now, correct? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't see anything that 9 says -- I mean, I don't know why we can't do a resolution. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't either. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It doesn't say we have -- 12 says we don't -- doesn't say we have to spend the money. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, it's a reimbursement 14 anyway. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: We fund -- we spend the money 17 and then apply for reimbursement. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But we're not obligated 19 to do that. We're not obligated to spend anything. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: No. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If we do, then we can get 22 reimbursed. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It looks like it's 24 just certifying that we went through the proper process 25 today. 9-27-04 185 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Kind of a weird 3 resolution. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Mm-hmm. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That first sentence, Kerr 6 County Commissioners Court has agreed that the expenditure 7 of the funds in accordance with any agreement... I'm not 8 sure I like that. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: The format that we were 10 following is -- let me correct that. The format that 11 Ms. Mitchell was following was under Section 13 of the -- of 12 the regulatory provisions that -- that are under the 13 agreement. And we've slightly modified that to include the 14 enumeration that the Auditor, that is the financial officer 15 responsible for the grant funds, indicates. I see one minor 16 typo in there that we can get corrected in the second line 17 of County Auditor being mentioned, "accurately account for 18 grant funds awarded to Kerr County." But, other than that, 19 I think the resolution complies with the requirements of the 20 grant fund agreement. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It is unusual, and I 22 think it's more of a certification than resolution. I'll 23 move to approve. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 9-27-04 186 1 approval of the resolution. Any question or discussion? 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I've got a question 3 that's got to do with our ongoing efforts to try to 4 understand this thing. I've been reading about the D.R.E. 5 machines, an alternative to D.R.E. machines being adaptation 6 of the scanner in some way. Do we scan our ballots? 7 MS. PIEPER: We have what is called a ballot 8 scanner, yes. We have two of them. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That answers the 10 question. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 12 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 13 your right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Next 18 item on the agenda, Number 29, is consider and discuss the 19 adoption of a resolution to declare September 2004 as 20 Destination Dignity Month. That was provided by the mental 21 health folks. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think this is an 23 annual affair. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: I believe it is. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And I move for 9-27-04 187 1 approval. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 4 approval of the agenda item. Any further question or 5 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 6 your right hand. 7 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 9 (No response.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Next 11 item is consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 12 set a public hearing on September 30th, 2004, at 5 p.m. in 13 the Kerr County Courthouse to review the performance and 14 obtain comments on the Texas Community Development Program 15 Year Contract 721075, Kerrville South Wastewater Project, 16 Phase I. Commissioner Williams. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, this is a 18 requirement of T.C.D.P. as you close out a particular phase 19 or a particular contract. I will be in attendance; the rest 20 of the Court does not need to be here. And I will be in 21 attendance at that public hearing to take any comment and 22 record them as such. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move to approve. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and sectioned for 9-27-04 188 1 approval of the agenda item. Any further question or 2 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 3 your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Kathy will post it 9 this afternoon. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Next item, consider and 11 discuss consolidating the voting location for Precinct 320 12 and 312 at Zion Lutheran Church for the November 2, 2004 13 general election. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, we're going to 15 pass on this. It's going to be addressed in the addendum. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's right? 18 MS. PIEPER: That's correct. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Next item is consider, 20 discuss, and take appropriate action to retain Community 21 Resource Group, Incorporated, of Austin, Texas, to conduct a 22 mail survey of the Center Point area to determine the 2003 23 adjusted median household income, to tabulate those 24 responses for inclusion with Kerr County grant application 25 for the Texas Water Development Board funding, the 9-27-04 189 1 expenditure not to exceed $1,000, to come from Commissioners 2 Court Professional Services. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, this is the 4 last element that we need prior to finalizing the 5 application for submission to the Texas Water Development 6 Board. The census data that's available to us from the 2000 7 census is just not sufficient to get the job done, 'cause we 8 tried to establish a correct median for the area to be 9 served. So, this is a group out of Austin, as the backup 10 material shows you, that does these type of things. So, 11 it's a nonprofit group. They will conduct a survey in 12 confidence and tabulate the results, give us the information 13 we need for inclusion in the grant. Move approval of the 14 item. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 17 approval of the agenda item. Any question or discussion? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question. We don't have 19 to make these colonias, do we? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pardon? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We don't have to do the 22 colonias again? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. No, it's already 24 gone. No. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just wanted to make sure. 9-27-04 190 1 Last time we did one of these, we ended up getting a 2 firestorm. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, no, we're 1,000 4 miles from that. For the moment. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No, we're only 6 150 miles from it. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 8 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 9 your right hand. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Excuse me, Judge. 15 And authorize the County Judge to sign that agreement. 16 Would that be inclusive -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- with the Court's 19 approval? Thank you. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: The addendum, Item 33, 21 consider, discuss, and approve changing the voting location 22 for Precinct 320. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This one, I think, is -- 24 320, as you recall, has been a problem precinct to find a 25 place to vote in. We've been using Red Rose Ranch, which is 9-27-04 191 1 not a good location, but it's the only one we had. We've 2 had some recent, I guess, complaints, however you'd put it, 3 from some of the judges for that election. We have relooked 4 at the maps very closely, and we now believe that the -- 5 MS. PIEPER: Calvary Temple. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's it called? The 7 big gym on Calvary Temple -- Fellowship Hall. Fellowship 8 Hall is in 3. The church, though -- the church is not. 9 MS. PIEPER: The church is too. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's questionable. Well, 11 the church is too? 12 MS. PIEPER: Yes, the church is behind the 13 yellow line. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. The parking lot 15 isn't, but the church is. Okay. So, we can use Calvary 16 Temple. It's a much better location for Precinct 320, and 17 I'll move that we change the voting location for Precinct 18 320 to Fellowship Hall at Calvary Temple Church. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 21 approval of the agenda item, to locate that Precinct 320 22 voting location to Calvary Temple Church Fellowship Hall. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You'll get 24 complaints about this one, too. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not as much as the other 9-27-04 192 1 one. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I can't imagine 3 getting complaints on this one. This is perfect. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's a good location. It 5 was actually what we -- the intent originally was. The maps 6 were weird. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No good deed goes 8 unpunished. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Much better than Red 10 Rose Ranch. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wherever that is. 12 That's out in Hunt somewhere, isn't it? No wonder they were 13 complaining. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's a rifle range. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 16 discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion, 17 signify by raising your right hand. 18 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Why 22 don't we move on to the approval agenda. First item is to 23 pay the bills. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have one question, 25 Judge. 9-27-04 193 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Under Commissioners 3 Court, a Kerrville Daily Times classified ad for employee? 4 What was that? 5 MS. LAVENDER: Road and Bridge. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I couldn't tell you. 7 MS. LAVENDER: It's a Road and Bridge. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Road and Bridge? Road 9 and Bridge. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why wouldn't it be 11 under Road and Bridge? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Nondepartmental comes to 13 Commissioners Court. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. All of them are 15 coming through us. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or out of our budget. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That explains it. 19 Move we pay the bills. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 22 payment of the bills as presented. Any further question or 23 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 24 your right hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 9-27-04 194 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 4 Budget amendments. Budget Amendment Request Number 1. 5 MR. TOMLINSON: I have a question about the 6 budget amendment on -- for Item 15. Did I miss any action 7 on -- it was about this Victim's Rights Coordinator. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It was approved. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It was approved. 10 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. I just didn't catch 11 that, so I just wanted to make sure. Okay. Number 1 is for 12 Juvenile Probation. This amendment actually is a request to 13 increase the budget and to transfer funds from -- I mean, to 14 increase the budget out of surplus funds, Fund 10, in the 15 amount of $18,708 for housing for Juvenile Probation. Along 16 with that, I have late bills I need hand checks for. One is 17 to Kerr County Juvenile Facility for $7,304. One's to Gulf 18 Coast Trades Center for $2,480. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: $2,480? 20 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. One is to Hays County 21 for $1,869. One to -- well, actually, I have two to Ever 22 Change, which is a facility in Hondo, $4,960. And the other 23 one is for -- to the same, Ever Change, for $5,270. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is for 25 housing -- 9-27-04 195 1 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- Kerr County 3 juveniles? 4 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Help me out here. 7 Why can't they be housed in our own detention facility? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me answer that, if I 9 might. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Please do. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: These -- these children are 12 placed in special programs. Gulf Coast, for example, is a 13 trade school. The other facilities -- Ever Change, for 14 example -- are boot camps. We do not operate a boot camp. 15 Hays County -- is that also a boot camp? I bet it is. 16 MR. TOMLINSON: Probably is. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: It's either that or some other 18 specialized treatment. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that the one that's 20 closing? 21 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maybe we should start a 24 boot camp. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Maybe we should. 9-27-04 196 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All we need is a tent for 2 that. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Got a big park down 4 there by the river. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: You gentlemen are -- are 6 working on my plans for increased capacity out at the Kerr 7 County Law Enforcement Center. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Do I get to put them in 9 pink underwear too, like they do in Arizona? No problem. 10 Get ready for the lawsuit. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Write that down, 12 p-i-n-k. 13 MS. LAVENDER: Pink underwear. 14 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. It is -- if "B.C." 15 stands for boot camp, that's what it is. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Boot camp, yeah. 17 That's the only programs that I'm aware that we send them to 18 over in Hays County. If they're just regular programs, 19 well, we'll place them here, of course, if we have the 20 programs in place. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Except for these -- 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Except the trade school and 23 boot camp, yeah. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: This is a related 25 issue the Sheriff and I were talking about at the break 9-27-04 197 1 time. One of the facets of -- of our having youth ranches 2 here -- we've got three or four or five of them -- is that 3 kids come in here from all over Texas, mostly San Antonio 4 and places close by, but they're not our kids. And while 5 they're here, they get in trouble, and the Sheriff picks 6 them up, and they're adjudicated here. And sometimes they 7 get sent off to Lubbock or Amarillo because of their special 8 needs, and we pay $2,800 a month for a kid out of San 9 Antonio. That's not a -- I'm not making that story up. I 10 just so happened to be involved in it in each step of the 11 way. It's a fact of life. We're not going to -- I'm not 12 proposing we ask the 3-H and the Hill Country to move away, 13 but it does cost us taxpayer dollars to deal with the 14 juvenile problems. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not to mention what 16 public schools -- 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes, sir. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- deal with them. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And we -- and the 20 State helps pay for that. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, right. So, 22 we're being asked here to declare an emergency, go into the 23 reserve funds, and increase the budget by $18,708. Who 24 wants to make that motion? Step right up. I'll do it. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Has to be done. I'll 9-27-04 198 1 second it. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 3 approval of Budget Amendment Request Number 1, declaring an 4 emergency and authorizing payment of late bills and hand 5 checks as indicated by the Auditor to the entities in the 6 amounts specified. 7 MR. TOMLINSON: And that won't be the last 8 one. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Pardon? 10 MR. TOMLINSON: That won't be the last one. 11 That doesn't include September. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It might be, though. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One final question. 14 Fund Number 10 is? 15 MR. TOMLINSON: The General Fund. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The General Fund. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: The funds come from surplus 18 reserves in General Fund Number 10. Any further question or 19 discussion? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just a comment, that 21 this thing has gotten awfully expensive today. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just this one today, 24 it's gotten very expensive to the taxpayers of Kerr County. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 9-27-04 199 1 discussion? All in favor of that motion, signify by raising 2 your right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 7 Budget Amendment Request Number 2. 8 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 2 is from 9 Environmental Health. Their request is to transfer $620 10 from Overtime to the On-Site Council Fees line item. 11 (Commissioner Letz left the courtroom.) 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Move for approval. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 15 approval of Budget Amendment Request Number 2. Any question 16 or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 17 raising your right hand. 18 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 22 Budget Amendment Request Number 3. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 3 is for Road and 24 Bridge. Their request is to transfer $957.16 from their 25 Contingency line item to Fuel Oils. 9-27-04 200 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 4 approval of Budget Amendment Request Number 3. I'm 5 surprised, with rising costs in that particular kind of 6 commodity, they made it this long on what they budgeted. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 9 comment? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 10 your right hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Budget 15 Amendment Request 4. 16 MR. TOMLINSON: Four is from Constable 2, to 17 transfer $26.99 from Equipment Repairs to Fuel and Oil. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 21 approval of Budget Amendment Request 4. Any question or 22 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 23 your right hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 9-27-04 201 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Budget 3 Amendment Request Number 5. 4 (Commissioner Letz returned to courtroom.) 5 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 5 is from the Sheriff. 6 The request is to transfer $2,980.78 from Nurse's Salary 7 line item, $36.48 to Operating Supplies, $2,944.30 to 8 Utilities. This is for the jail. The Sheriff's Office 9 request is to transfer $7,334.75 from Group Insurance to Gas 10 and Oil. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 14 approval. Any question or discussion? All in favor of the 15 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Do we have 20 any late bills, except those indicated? 21 MR. TOMLINSON: I have another amendment. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, okay. Budget Amendment 23 Request Number 6. 24 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 6 is from the 25 Treasurer. Her request is to transfer $1,650 from the Group 9-27-04 202 1 Insurance line item to Part-Time Salaries. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: What's -- what's the balance 3 in her insurance? Obviously, it's $1,650 or more, isn't it? 4 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 6 MR. TOMLINSON: It's that much at least. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I -- see if you can 9 get a second before I talk. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'll second. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have a question, while 12 Commissioner 1's thinking. My question is, is there a 13 reason -- there's a need for part-time help down there? I 14 mean, part-time is something we kind of budget for. This is 15 a pretty big amount. 16 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't have the answer to 17 that. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, if there's -- if 19 someone's sick or someone's going to leave, that's one 20 thing, but I don't know what -- how we'd need a part-time 21 person right now. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, it'd be nice if 23 we had an explanation. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: I can't give you one. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I withdraw my motion. 9-27-04 203 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We have a built-in 2 budget item, as Commissioner Letz or somebody said, that 3 indicates that that's a job and a quarter or something like 4 that. It also surprises me that we need another $1,650. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I withdraw the 6 motion. If we can get an explanation, we'll put it on a 7 subsequent agenda. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are any of the -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you withdraw your 11 second? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I didn't make it. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's two employees and 14 the elected official, correct? 15 MR. TOMLINSON: There's a part-time and a 16 full-time. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: One employee, 18 elected official, and one -- 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Part-time. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- part-time. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Permanent part-time 22 same position, all the time. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: I might could get an answer 24 before you adjourn. If you -- 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Going to have to be pretty 9-27-04 204 1 quick. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You can do it by 3 tomorrow. We meet tomorrow. We can handle something like 4 this if we recess. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, we can go ahead and 6 recess. Yeah, that would be okay. 7 (Discussion off the record.) 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Some of us may be here. 9 I'm not sure if I will. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: You withdrawing your motion, 11 then? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, waiting for 13 some explanation. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Other than the late 15 bill as presented, do we have any late bills? 16 MR. TOMLINSON: I have another one. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 18 MR. TOMLINSON: To the Juvenile Facility, 19 which is included in -- along with the -- it's in the fund 20 requirement report. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: We have approved a late bill 22 and hand check to Kerr County Juvenile Facility for $7,304. 23 Is it the same one? 24 MR. TOMLINSON: No, it's a different one. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 9-27-04 205 1 MR. TOMLINSON: But it's included in the -- 2 it's included in the fund requirement report that you 3 previously approved, but I want to be able to write a hand 4 check for it. It's for $5,146, for post-adjudication 5 placements for August. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. $5,146? 7 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: And at the Kerr County 9 Juvenile Detention Facility. Okay. 10 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: The Treasurer has proposed a 12 late bill and hand check in the amount of $5,146 to Kerr 13 County Juvenile Detention Facility for post-adjudication 14 costs for August. Do I hear a motion for approval? 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So moved. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 18 approval. Any question or discussion? All in favor of the 19 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We 24 don't have any transcripts today. I have before me monthly 25 reports for Justice of the Peace, Precinct number 1, Justice 9-27-04 206 1 of the Peace, Precinct Number 2, and Constable, Precinct 2 Number 3. Do I hear a motion to approve these reports as 3 presented? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 7 approval of the enumerated reports as presented. Any 8 question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify 9 by raising your right hand. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion also carries. 14 Okay. Do we have any reports from the Commissioners in 15 connection with their liaison, EMS, 9-1-1, airport, anything 16 along those lines? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that the Court is 18 aware of where we are on the airport. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think so too. 20 Nothing has changed dramatically, not since we talked about 21 that. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Other than it's kind of 24 going this way. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: It's on a glide. 9-27-04 207 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On a glide. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other reports from elected 3 officials or department heads? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, do you -- you 5 know, do you think it's -- we're due a report from our 6 attorney on our insurance issue? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Should be getting about -- 8 about that time. Do you want to go ahead and schedule one 9 for -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Next meeting. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think that would be 13 wise. It should be time for something. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: After we get through the 15 budget and so forth? Okay. Okay, we'll make arrangements 16 to get him up here. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. Any other 18 reports from anybody? Does any member of the Court have any 19 need to go into executive or closed session for anything? 20 Hearing none, we'll stand in recess until tomorrow at 21 10 a.m. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: When do we meet? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: No, 10:30. Excuse me, it's 24 10:30 -- no, it's posted for 10:00. It is 10:00, because I 25 added the budget, if necessary. I backed that up to 9-27-04 208 1 10 o'clock, because we had the -- the tax rate on the agenda 2 for 10:30, so I backed it up to 10:00 on the posting. The 3 budget is at 10:00; the tax rate at 10:30. Since -- since 4 we actually -- I suppose we could recess until actually 5 10:30, since we don't have to address the budget -- I 6 mean -- yeah, the budget issue. So, we'll stand in recess 7 until 10:30. 8 MR. TOMLINSON: September the 28th, 9 10:30 a.m. 10 (Discussion off the record.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: That meeting was posted for 12 Thursday. I guess the question now is, how do we handle the 13 one remaining budget amendment that's outstanding from the 14 Treasurer's office? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Recess till 12:55. I 16 mean, it can't take long to do this, if she has an answer 17 today -- or 12:45. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We'll still be here 19 at 1:00? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: How about the court 22 reporter? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, we need her here for 24 that. The -- the TexDOT meeting starts at 1:00. 25 MS. MITCHELL: Mm-hmm. 9-27-04 209 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Goes from 1:00 to 4:00. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Will the court reporter 3 be here for the TexDOT meeting? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: She's not going to take that, 5 no. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think that we 7 should have the court reporter have to come back for a 8 five-minute -- 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Shouldn't tie up six 10 people for this thing. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. But we got one budget 12 amendment. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What happens if we 14 don't approve it? It goes another two weeks? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. That's what I 16 said originally; bring it back at the next court meeting. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Either that or approve 18 it right this moment. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Either that or what? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Either that or approve 21 it right now. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's okay, if we 23 have an explanation. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We're going to wind 25 up paying it either way. We can approve it now and get her 9-27-04 210 1 explanation later. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's true. That's 3 true. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Make the motion. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I move to approve. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 8 approval of Budget Amendment Request Number 6 from the 9 Treasurer for part-time help. Any question or discussion? 10 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 11 hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: We stand adjourned. 16 (Recess taken from 3:50 p.m. to 3:57 p.m.) 17 - - - - - - - - - - 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me -- let's go back on the 19 record. Actually, what I meant to do was recess rather than 20 adjourn. I was hoping we'd find out the circumstances 21 behind this -- this Budget Amendment Number 6 that was 22 proposed by the County Treasurer. So, having done so in 23 error, I will rescind my declaration of adjournment, but 24 rather recess, and I will now bring us back to order. Do we 25 have any knowledge about the circumstances of -- of this 9-27-04 211 1 part-time help request? 2 MR. TOMLINSON: Judge, I -- the information I 3 have is not direct from the Treasurer. My recommendation 4 would be to have her personally explain the purpose for 5 the -- for the amendment. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Before we take any 7 action? 8 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah, before we take any 9 action. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with that. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Seems reasonable. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion that 13 we rescind the prior court order, and make a motion that we 14 take no action on this at this time. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to 18 rescind the prior court order approving the Budget Amendment 19 Number 6. Any further question or discussion? All in favor 20 of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Do we 25 have any further business to come before the Court today, or 9-27-04 212 1 any anticipation that we'll need to have further business to 2 come before the Court within the next 24 hours? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Give us a few minutes. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: In that event, why don't we 5 just recess, then? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: And we'll have it available to 8 us in the event there is other business to come up. So, 9 we'll stand in recess. It's 4 o'clock. 10 (Commissioners Court recessed at 4 p.m.) 11 - - - - - - - - - - 12 13 STATE OF TEXAS | 14 COUNTY OF KERR | 15 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 16 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 17 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 18 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 19 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 4th day of October, 20 2004. 21 22 23 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 24 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 25 Certified Shorthand Reporter 9-27-04