1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Regular Session 10 Tuesday, October 12, 2004 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 DAVE NICHOLSON, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X October 12, 2004 2 PAGE --- Commissioners' Comments 5 3 1.1 Consider allowing Hill Country Mounted Peace 4 Officers Association to have annual Wild Game Dinner at the HCYEC 1st Saturday in April each 5 year, commencing 2006 7 1.2 Consider advertising for sealed bid proposals at 6 HCYEC for Engineered Metal Roof Replacement and HVAC replacement 13 7 1.3 Consider TCDRS Plan Rate and changes for 2005 18 1.4 Consider engagement of Pressler Thompson & Co. 8 to perform audit for fiscal year ending September 30, 2004 19 9 1.5 Consider and discuss the maintenance of Indian Creek Road 22 10 1.8 Consider homeowners' petition to have Hunt Valley View Drive accepted for Kerr County Maintenance 33 11 1.9 Consider road name change for privately-maintained road not in accordance with 9-1-1- guidelines 38 12 1.10 Preliminary plat, Eagle Ridge Subdivision, Pct. 4 48 1.6 Opening of sealed bids for Annual HVAC, Electrical, 13 Plumbing, and Pest Control Services 55 1.7 Opening of sealed bids for used water distributor 14 and asphalt distributor 62 1.11 Approve road name changes for privately maintained 15 roads in accordance with 9-1-1 guidelines 63 1.15 Consider approving resolution or other action to 16 participate in Indigent Defense Grant Program, authorize County Judge to sign the same 64 17 1.13 Consider/discuss developing plans for Kerr County's 150th anniversary in April 2006 64 18 1.14 Consider "Policies for Courthouse Building and Grounds" to determine if revisions are needed 73 19 1.16 Consider approval of Fifteenth Amendment and Extension of City/County Fire Fighting Agreement, 20 authorize County Judge to sign the same 102 1.17 Consider appointment of Betty Burney to serve as 21 temporary Justice of the Peace 3 103 22 4.1 Pay Bills 110 4.2 Budget Amendments 114 23 4.3 Late Bills --- 4.4 Read and Approve Minutes 120 24 4.5 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 121 25 5.1 Reports from Commissioners/Liaison Committee Assignments --- 3 1 I N D E X October 12, 2004 2 PAGE 1.12 Consider prepayment of resident fees under 3 Residential Services Contract with Kerr County Juvenile Detention Facility for current or future 4 residents 122 5 3.1 Action taken on Executive Session matters 128 6 1.18 Report and update from County Attorney and Mr. Walraven on status of EBA lawsuit (Executive 7 Session) --- 1.19 Consider and discuss appointment of individual 8 to fill unexpired term of Justice of the Peace 3 129 1.20 Consideration and designation of County 9 representative for mediation in EBA Suit (Executive Session) --- 10 1.21 Consider approval of temporary extension of Lease and Operating Agreements on Juvenile 11 Detention Facility and funding of operations and/or other resolution of existing Detention 12 Facility situation 130 13 --- Adjourned 147 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 4 1 On Tuesday, October 12, 2004, at 9:00 a.m., a regular 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in the 3 Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville, 4 Texas, and the following proceedings were had in open court: 5 P R O C E E D I N G S 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me call to order the 7 meeting of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County scheduled 8 for this time and date, Tuesday, October the 12th, 2004, at 9 9 a.m. It's that time now. I'd ask for all of you to join 10 me in welcoming Mr. Bill Blackburn with Partners in 11 Ministry, who's here with us today to offer an opening 12 prayer. 13 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you very much. Please 15 be seated. At this time, we come to a portion of the agenda 16 where members of the public are invited to address the Court 17 on matters which are not listed on the agenda. If -- if you 18 wish to speak on a matter that is an agenda -- or a listed 19 agenda item, we would ask that you fill out a participation 20 form at the back of the room. It's not absolutely 21 essential. It does help me in -- in making an attempt to 22 not pass over you, because hopefully I won't miss you if I 23 have one of those participation forms. But if you wish to 24 speak on one of those items, please fill out a participation 25 form and -- and get it up here to the front to me; I'd 10-12-04 5 1 appreciate it. But with respect to any matter that is not a 2 listed agenda item, feel free, and you're welcome to come 3 forward at this time to address the Court as -- as respects 4 anything on your mind. Is there any member of the public 5 that wishes to address the Court on an item that's not 6 listed on the agenda? Seeing no one, we'll move on with our 7 agenda. Commissioner Baldwin, what do you have for us this 8 morning? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I just wanted to 10 announce today's my wife's birthday, and she told me this 11 morning she's 26, and that if any of you felt led -- and I 12 want to include the audience as well -- felt led to give her 13 a gift, you can make the check out to me. (Laughter.) 14 That's all. That's all. Just wanted to give you that 15 opportunity. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Williams? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a -- 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Your opportunity. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I'm not going 20 to seize on that opportunity. I had an opportunity, 21 however, last night to attend the first of two forums for 22 Headwaters candidates, and there were -- two of the three 23 candidates from Precinct 2 were present. Third was not. 24 The unopposed candidate from Precinct 4 was present, as was 25 the unopposed candidate for -- for the board position 10-12-04 6 1 at-large. It was interesting, and I hope that the citizens 2 take the opportunity to avail themselves of as much 3 information about these folks as they possibly can, and if 4 you need to hear some of their thoughts on the various 5 topics, I would urge you to attend the second forum, which 6 will be Thursday night at the Center Point Independent 7 School District Cafeteria at 7 p.m. All these candidates, I 8 believe, will be on display one more time, so you have an 9 opportunity to listen, ask questions, and form some 10 judgments, perhaps. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. Anything 12 else? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, sir. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Letz? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just have -- just one, 16 really, observation from this morning. I'm probably the 17 only one that drives in on Highway 27. Anyone that went by 18 the Ag Barn this morning, it's unbelievable. There are -- 19 it looks -- there are more cars than you get for a stock 20 show, and there's a line of people for flu shots all the way 21 around the building. They go around the side and all the 22 way back to the river side of the property. I've never seen 23 so many people. Anyway, quite amazing. So, Glenn, if you 24 didn't know that, you've got a big crowd out there. 25 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, I do know. I do know. 10-12-04 7 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So -- but quite 2 interesting. That's all I have. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner 4? 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: There's a beginning 5 of an effort to communicate about protecting the 6 environment; starts this week, Thursday, October 14. It's a 7 seminar, and it will be held at the Lecture Hall of the 8 Upper Guadalupe River Authority, and it's a joint effort by 9 the U.G.R.A. and the -- our Environmental Health Department 10 to begin a campaign of promoting good environmental 11 practices. So, it's -- Dr. Bruce Lesiker, a professor at 12 Texas A & M, will be making a presentation, and for people 13 who are interested in learning more about a how-to-protect 14 seminar, I hope you'll show up and learn some more about it. 15 That's all. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. I just want to 17 welcome some new faces that I see here today. We're 18 privileged and honored to have you, and we want to welcome 19 you back and invite your friends and your neighbors, and 20 we're tickled to death to have you, because this is your 21 business we're conducting, and you -- you need to be in on 22 it and you need to have your input on it. That's all I 23 have. Let's move on and start with our agenda. First item 24 on the agenda is consider and discuss allowing Hill Country 25 Mounted Peace Officer's Association to have their annual 10-12-04 8 1 Wild Game Dinner at the Hill Country Youth Exhibition Center 2 on the first Saturday in April of each year commencing in 3 2006. Mr. Holekamp? 4 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes. This is based on -- did 5 you see the letter in your backup that came from the Hill 6 Country -- Hill Country Mounted Peace Officer's Association? 7 It's -- as I think most of you on the Court know, these 8 gentlemen and ladies -- I think there's some members -- have 9 been a very integral part of our community, as in disasters, 10 support for law enforcement. They support all the youth 11 events. They -- they do crowd control on numerous events 12 that take place in the county. And I think, primarily, 13 their -- their thanks are what people give them, is thanks, 14 and then they have the wild game dinner every year at the 15 beginning of April. And this last year, or this -- this 16 past spring, we tried to come up with some -- some rules as 17 to booking events at the facility. There are several events 18 that are exempt from rollovers, if you wish to call them, 19 like the county fair. They roll over every year a certain 20 weekend. Same thing with stock show. They're fundraisers 21 and that sort of thing. And these people have, in the past, 22 had a -- the first Saturday in April, and they came to me 23 and had asked if there was a way that the Court could 24 authorize them having the first Saturday in April. And I 25 said, well, that was a court matter, and I would bring it 10-12-04 9 1 before y'all. So, that's what I'm here for. I -- I think 2 the -- what they do for our community is -- is 3 self-explanatory from the letter, and I -- I personally 4 endorse allowing them to have this. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you feel like that 6 if you allow the -- this particular group to roll over, 7 don't you need to allow everybody else that requires booking 8 out ahead of time, like the dog agility, the tick-pickers 9 association or whomever it might be? 10 MR. HOLEKAMP: Well, I think there -- there 11 needs to be a classification of those that do qualify. And 12 when I say that, those that are -- are youth-oriented, 13 scholarship-oriented, and community involvement of -- 14 supporting our youth events and our law enforcement 15 programs, and I -- I really believe they should be in a 16 category no different than any other youth event like stock 17 shows or that sort of thing. And, so, when you talk about 18 the private -- the private entity that is -- is putting on 19 events for financial gain, or kind of a semi-private, I 20 don't think they're in the same category. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, this is your 22 policy that you've created this morning? Or -- 23 MR. HOLEKAMP: No, sir. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, you're going to 25 have to have a policy or they're all going to be coming in 10-12-04 10 1 here every Monday, so we need to -- we need to deal with 2 that one way or the other. 3 MR. HOLEKAMP: We need a policy, yes, sir. 4 We do need a policy. I came in because, as I understood 5 it -- and the way I understood it is anything other than the 6 rules that we've been going under needs to come before 7 Commissioners Court. So, I chose to do it this way. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't see that 9 particular request in their letter. Their letter only 10 acknowledges that they hold a wild game dinner every year 11 around the first weekend in April, but it doesn't make a 12 request for it. It comes to my mind that there are two 13 issues here. First of all, this group, while their purposes 14 are -- are excellent, and I'm not questioning their 15 purposes, they don't pay rent on the facility, do they? 16 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, they have in the past. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What have they paid? 18 MR. HOLEKAMP: The regular nonprofit local 19 rate. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, the 21 not-for-profit local rate. 22 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. That would be 24 the same rate that you would charge, for example, the 25 Sunrise Lion's Club, who hosted also a wild game dinner. 10-12-04 11 1 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And whose proceeds go 3 to benefit the community. 4 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Is the Sunrise 6 -- Sunrise Lion's Club date protected? 7 MR. HOLEKAMP: I'm not -- I'm not sure. I 8 don't think so. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't think so 10 either. So, I -- I'm curious as to protecting a date. I 11 think we only have two protected dates there that roll over 12 from year to year. One is the stock show. Everybody 13 understands that, and that is protected. Far as I'm 14 concerned, that will always be protected. And, secondly, 15 the Kerr County Fair, which is protected dates in October, 16 and there's a real reason for that. They have to go so far 17 out in booking carnivals and other things that are attendant 18 to a fair, they need to know that their dates are solid. I 19 -- I just don't know that -- that we need to be protecting 20 everybody's dates, and I think Commissioner Baldwin makes a 21 very good point in that, if you start here, there's no 22 stopping point. You can clearly justify the stock show. We 23 can clearly justify the fair. They are categories unto 24 themselves. But if you start going beyond that, then who 25 knows where you're going to end up? 10-12-04 12 1 MR. HOLEKAMP: Well, last year the Court 2 approved protecting days for the Home and Garden Show also. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm not so sure, if 4 we brought it back again, I would favor that either. 5 MR. HOLEKAMP: I understand. I'm just making 6 that -- that that was brought before the Court also. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My comment is -- I mean, 8 I think we need a policy, but the other thing -- the 9 uncertainty of the facility, I don't think we can go much 10 beyond a year at a time on any bookings, other than what 11 we're already committed to do. And even those, hopefully 12 those people -- entities understand that there is some risk 13 of the continued use of that facility. I think the stock 14 show is protected and will be at some venue, but everybody 15 else, including the fair, better be aware that, you know, 16 something's got to be done at that facility, and the County 17 has discussed everything from shutting it down to everything 18 except the stock show, to building an expanded facility. 19 And I think that, under that broad scenario, the only thing 20 that's really protected is stock show. So -- and I don't 21 think we can do any more until we -- you know, for this 22 following year, I think we go ahead and set up a date; I 23 have no problem with that. But for every -- beyond that, I 24 think we need to get a direction for the facility before we 25 start working on a -- really, a long-term policy for use of 10-12-04 13 1 the facility. That's my view. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything further to be offered 3 in connection with this? Is there a motion to be offered by 4 any member of the Court? The sense I get is it depends on 5 which way the facility goes. And we need a policy of some 6 sort, and that, of course, may be in part determined by the 7 next item. If there's nothing further, we'll move on to the 8 next agenda item, consider and discuss advertising for 9 sealed bid proposals at the Hill Country Youth Exhibit 10 Center for an engineered metal roof replacement and HVAC 11 replacement. 12 MR. HOLEKAMP: I brought this back to the 13 Court. The last time I was in court, there was some 14 question as to a need for engineering prior to putting a 15 roof replacement on the building. And the bids that -- the 16 preliminary bids that I have, or proposals that I had 17 brought were -- were from contractors here in the community 18 that did not have an engineering plan. But they have -- and 19 I called them all, and they assured me that if I request, 20 they will have whatever is proposed approved or -- by an 21 engineer, or they would not place it there. So, what I've 22 done is just brought this back with different wording on 23 the -- as far as the roof replacement is concerned. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess my -- I think I'm 25 the main one that raised that question last time. I'm just 10-12-04 14 1 not familiar, and I don't see the County Attorney in the 2 audience, but I have no problem with this -- going in this 3 direction. I'm just not sure what the state law requires 4 related to this type of work. If we can just use -- if we 5 can use their in-house engineers, or if we have to hire an 6 independent engineer, I do not know. It seems that in some 7 projects, you have to have an independent architectural 8 engineering firm to proceed, but I'm not sure if that's only 9 for new construction or -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the 11 design-build concept for new construction, I believe. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: If we were building a new 13 building, of course, there are statutory requirements. This 14 is in the nature of a -- of a repair, and if I understand 15 how these metal roof systems work, they're -- they're 16 pre-engineered systems and they -- they come in that sort of 17 package. But I think the -- the dividing line here is that 18 we're doing a repair, as opposed to a new structure, which 19 falls under a different category, engineering-wise. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the -- I mean, you 21 mentioned pre-engineered on the roof. Well, I guess they 22 take into account how they're going to support the roof, 23 load-bearing aspects of it, even though it's not a, -- 24 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- I would say, metal 10-12-04 15 1 building. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: One of the local 4 contractors gave me a copy of a -- of specs on a job that 5 was done on the post office. It's so close to being the 6 same size and same issue sort of a thing that it appears 7 that it's not very difficult to prepare a package to get 8 bids on it. This is done by a licensed professional 9 engineer, and it's got the, I guess, typical standards for 10 doing such a replace -- roof replacement. That's what this 11 was, is a roof replacement. So, I would think we ought to 12 be able to put some specs together without having to employ 13 an engineer to do that. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I think that you've got some 15 general specs to go in the -- do you not? 16 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I move for 19 approval of this agenda item. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 22 approval of the agenda item. Any further question or 23 discussion? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. I'm not ready 25 yet, Judge. Any -- any advertising for sealed bids for this 10-12-04 16 1 project would have to take into consideration, I think -- 2 correct me if I'm wrong, Mr. Holekamp -- that the air 3 conditioning units that are there now are on that roof; is 4 that correct? 5 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They have to be 7 relocated, correct? They have to be removed and relocated? 8 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Over which you're 10 going to put a tin roof? 11 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And wherever those 13 A/C units are relocated, it's going to require not only 14 wiring, but a whole lot of plumbing that goes with that, the 15 air conditioning, and probably some new vent work; is that 16 correct? 17 MR. HOLEKAMP: That's correct. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that going to be 19 called for in these specifications? 20 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Well, okay. 22 MR. HOLEKAMP: Because they would not be able 23 to be placed back up on this particular type of roof that we 24 have been looking at. Yes, sir. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, we'll see what 10-12-04 17 1 the sealed bid brings. I can always vote against it at that 2 time. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question. The date is 4 October 27th or November 8th that the bids are due? I mean, 5 what's the -- on the first page, they're opened 10 a.m. 6 November 8th. 7 MR. HOLEKAMP: I had to back those up because 8 of the -- let's see. Just a second. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're having a 10 preconference meeting on the 27th? 11 MR. HOLEKAMP: I have a preconference. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So it's on the 8th, okay. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Preconference on the 27th of 14 October. 15 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Submission by 5 p.m. Friday, 17 the 5th, and opening -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On the 8th. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: -- Monday, the 8th. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 22 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 23 your right hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 10-12-04 18 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Thank 3 you, Mr. Holekamp. 4 MR. HOLEKAMP: Thank you. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: The next item on the agenda is 6 consider and discuss the Texas County and District 7 Retirement System plan rate and plan changes for 2005. 8 MS. NEMEC: This was included in the 9 2004-2005 budget. Those figures are already in there, so 10 this is just to sign the paperwork for that, which we 11 decided to do 50 percent of the C.P.I. for the retirees' 12 cost-of-living insurance. And so I would just need the 13 Judge to initial on the third page, on the first section 14 where it says, "CPI-based Annuity," and then the County 15 Clerk's stamp and signature on the last page. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 19 approval of the agenda item as submitted. Any question or 20 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 21 your right hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 10-12-04 19 1 MS. NEMEC: Thank you. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: The next item on the agenda is 3 to consider and discuss approval of engagement of Pressler 4 Thompson and Company to perform the audit for the fiscal 5 year ending September 30th, 2004. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Which has already 7 ended. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. Yeah, just -- just 9 did end. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: For the immediate past year. 12 This matter was submitted to me by the Auditor, and I placed 13 it on the agenda for the Court's consideration. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What is the cost of 15 the audit? I don't see it anywhere. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: 27 -- it's there on the next 17 to last page of the -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 27,5. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: -- engagement letter. Not to 20 exceed 27,5. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I see it. Move 22 approval. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 25 approval. Any further question or discussion? 10-12-04 20 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question. When is the 2 date that they usually have that complete? Or -- I guess my 3 real question on this is that the -- on the management 4 discussion, I want to make sure that the Court has enough 5 time to look at that, because the -- with the new rules, 6 that is a much more important part of the -- I just want to 7 make sure that -- I'm not sure if the Auditor or Judge -- 8 you know, when we get to that point, make sure that we all 9 get the opportunity to make comments in that management 10 discussion. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: True. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And we haven't in the 13 past, but last year -- the format has changed, and I think 14 it has become a more important part of the document. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Are you talking about because 16 of the new accounting -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: New accounting. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: -- procedures? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: New accounting 20 procedures. It's something that should be -- supposed to be 21 written by the Court, as I understand it. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good point. I have a 23 question, Judge. Does this audit include the audit of the 24 Juvenile Detention Center's books, as well as Kerr County's 25 books? 10-12-04 21 1 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't believe it does. The 2 Auditor, of course, could answer that more definitively, but 3 I feel that it probably does not. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Who would normally do 5 that, and how would that be handled? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: That I would refer to the 7 Auditor, who -- I saw one of the Auditor's representatives 8 here a bit ago, but I don't see her now. Hopefully we can 9 get an answer to that question shortly. If you like, we can 10 come back to it. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd like to have an 12 answer to that question. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll withdraw the 15 motion for now, temporarily. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 17 MS. MITCHELL: Mindy's on her way. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Maybe we can get this 19 disposed of without having to come back to it. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Could be. Okay. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I understand there's a 22 representative from the Auditor's office on the way. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Here she is. Ms. Williams? 25 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir? 10-12-04 22 1 JUDGE TINLEY: The question that's -- that's 2 come up is whether or not this audit that Pressler Thompson 3 does for the County includes the Juvenile Detention 4 Facility. 5 MS. WILLIAMS: I believe that it does. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 7 MS. WILLIAMS: But I'd have to go back and 8 look at last year's to be certain. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 10 MS. WILLIAMS: But I believe that it does. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Would you be kind 12 enough to check that for us? And if you'll come back to us 13 with a response, why, we'll come back to that item. 14 MS. WILLIAMS: Okay, will do. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that satisfactory, 16 Commissioner? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 18 MS. WILLIAMS: All right. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move on to Item Number 21 5, consider and discuss maintenance of Indian Creek Road. 22 Commissioner Nicholson asked that this be placed on the 23 budget -- on the agenda. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I quite frequently 25 get requests from my constituents to pave a road, and here's 10-12-04 23 1 a case where I've had a request to not pave a road. The 2 last portion of Indian Creek Road is unpaved. It's 3 expensive to maintain in an unpaved condition because every 4 time there's a -- a rain, we have to get out there with the 5 grader and push rocks back and forth. It's on our schedule 6 to -- to improve it and sealcoat it and do that now. I've 7 heard from -- well, the landowners on the unpaved portion, 8 most of them, probably somewhere around six or seven, are 9 not residents there. It's -- they own land there; they use 10 it for recreational purposes or whatever, but they don't 11 live there. There are two residences toward the end that 12 are full-time occupied. Some of the people who -- who do 13 not live there have asked that we not proceed to pave it, 14 and their concern is that that will attract more undesirable 15 traffic, litter, whatever. The people who live there, who 16 are residents there, do want the road paved, of course, 17 because it's not a very -- very good road. 18 We've taken the position -- I've taken the 19 position that we're -- we're not going to leave it like it 20 is. It's too -- it's too expensive to maintain, and it's on 21 our schedule as a Priority 3 improvement, so we're either 22 going to sealcoat it or we're going to listen to a request 23 from the landowners to abandon it. The people who live 24 there do not want it abandoned; they want it -- they want it 25 improved and sealcoated. The others prefer that we not do 10-12-04 24 1 that. So, Mr. Odom's here to answer questions about it. 2 I'm not -- I'm not going to propose any action on this, 3 except to say to Mr. Odom, go ahead with your plans to 4 improve and sealcoat that road. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If it were my 6 precinct, I think I would address it from a little bit 7 different point of view, in that if the majority of the 8 landowners didn't want it paved, I wouldn't pave it, but I 9 would certainly maintain it for future paving. I would 10 maintain it in a caliche form, because at some point there 11 would be possibly new ownership, and that particular road 12 someday is going to connect with Turtle Creek. Probably not 13 in your and my lifetime, but at some point it will, and to 14 -- you know, to have the base work prepared and ready to go 15 for paving it sometime. I would -- I just -- with the 16 majority of the landowners, that's what I would do. But -- 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How many property 18 owners are there on Indian Creek Road? 19 MR. ODOM: I believe there's seven or eight. 20 Truby, am I right in that number? 21 MS. HARDIN: That's right. Mr. Allen's here. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is Mr. Allen part of 23 this gig? 24 MR. ODOM: Yes, he is. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. 10-12-04 25 1 MR. ALLEN: I'm one of the two residents of 2 Kerr County that use that road every day. It's our only 3 access to -- to town. Indian Creek Road is 3 miles long, as 4 y'all know. The problem is, the first 2 miles are paved; 5 the last mile is unpaved. And if my information is correct, 6 Commissioner Nicholson, the folks that are against this 7 paving, none of them are residents of Kerr County. And 8 those of us that use it every day -- well, I shouldn't speak 9 for Mr. Walton. I spoke with him, and he said it didn't 10 make any difference to him. But it sure -- sure would -- 11 it's a safety issue, as far as I'm concerned, 'cause when 12 large rains come, y'all know what happens. I'd like to see 13 it paved. But those residents that are -- I think there's 14 only one -- of the five or so that complained about it, I 15 think only one of them live in Texas. Most of them are 16 absentee owners that, in my seven years living there, I've 17 -- I've seen one or two in seven years. So, they're not 18 using the road, Buster, like those of us that live there 19 every day. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't think it makes 21 any difference. I think the simple fact that they pay taxes 22 is the -- is the issue, to me. I don't care where they 23 live. 24 MR. ALLEN: Yeah, okay. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Odom? 10-12-04 26 1 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Nicholson 3 indicated that there's a fair amount of expense having to 4 maintain that road in its unsealcoated state. 5 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Relative to the cost of 7 sealcoating and future maintenance, what is the cost to 8 maintain it in its unsealcoated state? 9 MR. ODOM: Normally, we figure that it's 10 going to run -- by the time we get the proper equipment out 11 there, maintainers, rollers, water trucks, and the labor 12 involved, that you're running at $700 to $1,000 a day to do 13 that, and you figure that you're going to take a half a day 14 just moving equipment in, and another -- it's a day and a 15 half to two days to do something if it's minor. This 16 section of road is about seven-tenths of a mile, 17 three-quarters of a mile that's dirt. It's 30 foot wide, is 18 the easement. It's along a creek, where the creek 19 intermittently crosses it. That's all I have, so anything 20 in the future would have to be -- as Commissioner Baldwin 21 says, we would have to go to 60-foot right-of-way. Either 22 we'd have to condemn it, or if anybody develops that, it 23 might be. 24 In the past, there -- my understanding, there 25 was an easement somewhere, maybe back up to Upper Turtle 10-12-04 27 1 Creek. Commissioner Baldwin's more familiar, I think, from 2 years ago on that. But my problem is, as Mr. Allen says, 3 when it rains, we lose the base down in that bottom. So, 4 about three-tenths of a mile is down in that bottom, quarter 5 of a mile, and so we end up with the drainage the way it is. 6 It just washes out the road; we have to go back in and 7 rebase that, so you're certainly at $700 to $1,000. Depends 8 how hard the rain is. If you get an 11 and a half inch rain 9 in 45 minutes, you've got a -- got a problem. So, our 10 policy for 14 years has been that as we can get to -- we 11 have 3 percent of our roads not sealcoated. This 12 three-quarters of a mile is part of that 3 percent. 13 We're looking at this year of getting 14 several -- one in Commissioner Williams' and two, I think, 15 in Commissioner Letz' area -- small roads, trying to upgrade 16 those that we think we can do. It certainly behooves us, as 17 to the taxpayers and our maintenance schedule, to -- to 18 sealcoat it. It has proven very cost-effective to -- to do 19 this. We may only have -- maybe 95 percent of the road will 20 not give us a problem. After we sealcoat it, maybe 21 5 percent in that creek might. That's probably a 20 or 22 30 percent probability of that 5 percent that we're going to 23 have certain areas that's going to be there. We'll work on 24 it. We'll work it out over time. We'll find what Mother 25 Nature's doing, and we can stay within that scope, that 30 10-12-04 28 1 foot. We don't have much room. We're only talking about 2 the width of a chip spreader, 12 foot at the most, and try 3 to do -- widen some crossings right there to make it safer. 4 That's about all we can do. 30 foot's -- 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The answer is easy 6 for me. It's to go ahead, approve it and sealcoat it. The 7 residents get a better road and the County saves money, so I 8 can't -- I can't see doing anything differently. 9 MR. ODOM: May I also inject a little bit of 10 history too, very short and very quickly? That this road 11 doesn't always stay within the right-of-way. It comes 12 out -- I've had it surveyed, the points out there. We've 13 identified probably 95 percent of the points on the ground 14 that were surveyed for us, but that road stayed -- we have 15 it by adverse possession, so if anyone comes back in, I 16 don't intend to realign anything. Since the lawsuit 17 probably back in the '60's or '70's -- I don't know what 18 that history is; I didn't see it in my folder. But there 19 was a lawsuit from the district court that gave them that 20 right-of-way. We ended up with that maintenance. I intend 21 to stay within that road. Even if it's out, the state law 22 says it's mine after 10 years of maintenance. I've been 23 here 14. Buster's been here since the unitized system and 24 prior to that, so we have enough time to justify staying on 25 that road to make it work, do what I need to within that 30 10-12-04 29 1 foot of that roadway. So, it may come up in the future, 2 after I do something that, "My road's not right." Well -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I want to say 4 something, Leonard. I just recently wrote an article for 5 our statewide magazine and stated in there that Kerr County 6 has a little under 500 miles of county roads, and I can't 7 remember the number right now, but you only have how many 8 miles left before you're -- 9 MR. ODOM: 3 percent, so you're looking at 15 10 or less. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 15 or less miles -- 12 MR. ODOM: 12 to 15 miles. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- that are unpaved -- 14 MR. ODOM: That are unpaved. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- in this county. 16 And as I travel around, there's not another Commissioners 17 Court in this state that can say that. 18 MR. ODOM: I don't -- I don't think there's 19 many. If it is -- it may be. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I haven't found them. 21 MR. ODOM: Okay. I think it's real well. 22 When I started in April of '91, we had 120 miles of dirt 23 roads. We have methodically -- the Court had asked us to 24 methodically do not only preventive maintenance, but as well 25 as the Priority 3 roads where you turn a gravel road into a 10-12-04 30 1 sealcoated road and get it into your perpetual maintenance, 2 and that's what we're trying to do. We're not trying to 3 stir up anything, but the Commissioner wanted to bring it to 4 court. My recommendation is that we go forward, or 5 either -- if you tell me no, I say drop it. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're not going to 7 hear a no from me. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That was a good -- 9 good article, Commissioner. And the picture was taken 10 before you got your hair cut. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, yeah. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: And maybe before some other 13 things. 14 MR. ODOM: Well, it bodes well for the 15 Commissioners Court and the men there in Road and Bridge. I 16 take no credit there, other than the people that work for 17 me, they're good people. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's right. And 19 there's not -- I don't have any proposal. We'll just 20 proceed. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Any member of the Court have a 22 motion that they wish to offer? Any other observations, or 23 can we move on? Ms. Williams? You have some information on 24 the audit issue that we've got before us? 25 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. You were asking 10-12-04 31 1 about the Juvenile Detention Facility, whether it was 2 covered in the audit. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. 4 MS. WILLIAMS: It is. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 6 MS. WILLIAMS: It is covered. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 10 approval of Agenda Item Number 4, engagement of Pressler 11 Thompson Company to perform audit for the fiscal year ending 12 September 30, 2004. 13 MS. WILLIAMS: Thank you. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 15 discussion? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, let me just ask 17 a question right quick. This has kind of been in the back 18 of my mind. This would be a good time, I think, to clear 19 that up. If we get down the road with the Juvenile 20 Detention Facility and dealing with banks and New York and 21 all of those kinds of things, and we -- it really looks like 22 we might be able to restructure some debt or something like 23 that, won't -- won't they require an audit of some sort at 24 that time? Wouldn't you think that they would? And if I 25 were them, I would -- I would ask for an audit that's 10-12-04 32 1 outside -- outside, not necessarily from some company in the 2 City of Kerrville. But I'm talking about, if I were going 3 to hire one, I'd go to San Antonio or Austin to get one. Am 4 I kind of off-base thinking like that? Or -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Our -- our annual audit is 6 provided -- is required by law. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ours, I understand. I 8 understand that. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: We have that done. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm talking about the 11 Juvenile Detention Facility. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: We have that done, and that is 13 done as a matter of due course. Certainly, if -- if any 14 outside agency wants to -- such as a lender wants to do an 15 audit, I see no problem with this Court giving that 16 permission for that to occur, or facilitating that to occur. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So we may -- we could 18 possibly do two audits, then, is the point. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But -- but that audit 20 will be paid for by whoever wants the audit, I would think. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: At that point, that would be 22 my position for sure. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, this is our 24 official audit. Any other audits people want, they're 25 welcome to do it at their expense. 10-12-04 33 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. We're required by law 2 to -- to have an annual audit, and -- and we've done that. 3 And if they want something over and above that, they can 4 certainly propose it, and, you know, they need to be up for 5 consideration. But, like you mentioned, at this point it 6 would be on their nickel. Any other questions or 7 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 8 your right hand. 9 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's 13 move on to Item Number 8, if we might, consider homeowners' 14 petition to have Hunt Valley View Drive accepted for Kerr 15 County maintenance. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. We have a 17 petition from all of the landowners in Hunt Valley View 18 Ranch Subdivision for the County to assume responsibility 19 for that road, maintenance of it. I think the road was 20 built probably 1999? 21 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And at that time, 23 after completion, it was inspected, and there were some 13 24 deficiencies noted between the state of the road as 25 constructed and our standards. And Mr. Odom has reexamined 10-12-04 34 1 the road and finds that -- that probably two of those 2 deficiencies have been corrected, but 11 remain. So, my 3 proposal is that we deny the request for the County to 4 resume responsibility of maintenance of that road until such 5 time as those other 11 deficiencies are corrected. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm with you. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And that's a motion. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 10 denial of the request of the petition as presented by the 11 homeowners to have Hunt Valley View Drive accepted for Kerr 12 County maintenance. Any further question or discussion? 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Just for your 14 information, talking with Mr. Odom, these deficiencies don't 15 appear to be real serious. It's probably something that 16 they can take care of, and they'll probably be back in here 17 with another request. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And if they get it -- our 19 policy has been that when they get the road up to standards, 20 we will generally accept it. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 22 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Did you have any comments or 24 thoughts you wanted to offer on this, Mr. Odom? 25 MR. ODOM: No, sir. I -- you know, I'm not 10-12-04 35 1 that familiar with it. I've had to go back in the records, 2 and I think certain members here are more familiar with it. 3 But that is the policy. I would prefer to -- personally, 4 when you do a private subdivision, you know that -- I'm 5 going to tell you -- take off my hat, just as Mr. Odom, just 6 saying that, you know, private subdivision is private 7 subdivision. The variance is still there with 18-degree 8 slope. You're going to have drainage problems always in 9 there. That variance was given. However, if they fix the 10 things that I see there -- these are the same things that 11 were mentioned in 1999; still weren't done. If those are 12 done, I would assume that if the Court accepts it, that is 13 the Court's decision. We'll take it for maintenance. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Question. I have a 15 similar situation in Creekwood Estates, where from time to 16 time that surfaces, and those homeowners, some of them have 17 indicated an interest in taking over -- the County taking 18 over maintenance of the road. And I believe we have core 19 samples on file indicating, in this instance, that -- in the 20 Creekwood instance, that the road base was not built to 21 County standards. Do we have similar core samples on file 22 in this one that would indicate that the road was, in fact, 23 built to County standards, or -- or the upgrade can be very 24 simply accomplished? 25 MR. ODOM: Looking at the minutes, I went 10-12-04 36 1 through the minutes that those -- I haven't seen the test 2 results, per se. Mr. Voelkel was involved in that, I 3 believe, and I -- he could verify that a little bit more. 4 But what I saw in the minutes, reading the minutes of the 5 court, that that had been accepted; that the test results 6 were such that they were accepted. But I haven't seen it in 7 that folder. Franklin was involved in that. That was 1999, 8 and I wasn't involved in it. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: When it comes back, 10 would you address that when you -- 11 MR. ODOM: I will address that. I'm looking 12 for that now. But I -- in the minutes, it indicates that 13 that was accepted. There were variances from the road 14 realignment and from the steepness of that slope. I think 15 it was a 21-degree slope, and they hammered a little bit and 16 it went down to 18.07, if memory serves me right. And we 17 called for a 12 percent slope. So, there was problems at 18 the double pipe; there was problems with the soil 19 conditions. They were such that Hearn Engineering even made 20 the comment that the soil is so poor that it would have 21 problems in drainage. I do have something I'll pass the 22 Court. You have part of the pictures. I believe they're in 23 black and white, but I have some in color, and you can see 24 that that erosion problem from that steepness is a 25 consistent problem. So, I will have to do some more 10-12-04 37 1 research, unless Lee pulls from memory on any of that. 2 Tests were done, were they not? 3 MR. VOELKEL: That's correct. 4 MR. ODOM: And it was a Grade 3-type caliche, 5 and I would assume that the proctors and all were there. 6 But there's -- it's a very narrow road. Drainage is a 7 problem there. There's -- you can read that dossier, and I 8 gave the punch-out to Commissioner Nicholson. So, if that's 9 done, that's fine, but that's a decision of the Court. I 10 would prefer to -- prefer not to. That's my personal 11 opinion. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Mr. Odom, I faxed 13 that punch list to -- 14 MR. ODOM: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- the owners. 16 MR. ODOM: With all due respect to the 17 Commissioner, I'm not trying to be belligerent or anything 18 else, but I'm just looking at a maintenance standpoint. 19 And, until those are corrected, we certainly do not wish to 20 take it. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I think that conforms with 22 policy, too, does it not? 23 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir, it does. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything further on 25 this particular issue? 10-12-04 38 1 MS. PIEPER: You need to take a vote. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. That was the reason I 3 was looking at you. Any further question or discussion on 4 the -- on the motion? All in favor -- 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What was the motion 6 again? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion was to deny the -- 8 the homeowners' petition to have Hunt Valley View Drive 9 accepted for Kerr County maintenance. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, sir. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any further question or 12 discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion, 13 signify by raising your right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's 18 move on to the next one, Item Number 9, consider road name 19 changes for privately maintained road that is not in 20 accordance with 9-1-1 guidelines. Ms. Hardin? 21 MS. HARDIN: Good morning, gentlemen. 22 Mr. Jack Clarke had come in and asked that his road name be 23 changed -- be named Clarke Drive. However, there are two 24 Clark Roads in that geo-region, one being Clark Street in 25 Ingram; the other is Clark Ranch Road, which is a County- 10-12-04 39 1 maintained road. And I don't have a map with me; I thought 2 Mr. Amerine was going to be here, but they're all very near. 3 They're all off Junction Highway north of Ingram. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Our road-naming 5 guidelines disallow us to name another road Clark. We've 6 got a Clark Street in Ingram, and we've got a Clark Ranch 7 Road out off of 1340. Naming another west Kerr County road 8 Clarke Road -- and this is a private road, by the way -- 9 would -- could result in good deal of confusion when -- when 10 they're sending out emergency services. In order to name 11 this one Clarke Road, we would have to, in my opinion, 12 change one of the already established road names to 13 something different than Clark. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I guess my question is, do we 15 have a problem since we already got two, even though one of 16 them's in the city limits of Ingram, apparently? Do we not 17 already have a problem? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One's Clark Ranch, one's 19 Clark -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Street. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Street, yeah. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And I'd like to point 23 out as well, you have -- in Ingram, you have Clark Street, 24 C-l-a-r-k. Then have you Clark Ranch Road; it's near 1340 25 and 41, if my memory's right. 10-12-04 40 1 MR. CLARKE: Correct. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is way out there; 3 that's C-l-a-r-k. And then you have a street and a road -- 4 ranch road, and then Mr. Clarke has requested C-l-a-r-k-e 5 Drive. So, there -- there's some differences there, you 6 know. I mean, I'm stretching it as far as I can, but it's 7 pretty tough. So -- but I see 9-1-1's here now, and if 8 you're -- it's going to be your decision, I'm sure not going 9 to get into it. I just wanted to point those out, that 10 there is some differences in the three. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And before -- maybe 12 Mr. Amerine will have a comment. My recollection is that, 13 on occasion -- it could be Jack Clarke Road. I don't know. 14 I mean, it would meet the guidelines, but it makes it a 15 little bit different. We've done something a little bit 16 similar; actually, I think we approved one in my precinct 17 kind of like that. Then the person decided they didn't want 18 it after we explained the EMS concerns that we had, why we 19 were having concerns. But that's another option, could be 20 Jack Clarke Road. Except that -- 21 MS. HARDIN: I thought that name was offered, 22 was it not? 23 MR. AMERINE: That name was offered; first 24 name, last name. That removes the sound-alike that you get 25 when you have just Clark Road and Clarke Drive. 10-12-04 41 1 JUDGE TINLEY: So, Jack Clarke would be 2 acceptable? 3 MR. AMERINE: Yes, it would. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But not -- but maybe 5 not to him. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not to Mr. Clarke. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the next issue. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mr. Clarke's here. 9 MR. CLARKE: Yes. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Jack, they're offering 11 you Jack Clarke Road, or street or drive. 12 MR. CLARKE: May I say a few words? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Certainly. 14 MR. CLARKE: All right. This is all on 15 private property. These roads have been named since 1975. 16 I have talked and discussed it with each Commissioner now. 17 My Commissioner was the last one I got to discuss it with. 18 I've been down to the 9-1-1, working with a lady. I think 19 she was -- I thought she was the one in charge. I don't 20 know. This is not the lady. 21 MS. HARDIN: No, this gentleman is the 22 director. 23 MR. AMERINE: I'm not a lady. (Laughter.) 24 MR. CLARKE: But, anyway, we've got -- we had 25 it worked out with her, and I've got -- she told me I had to 10-12-04 42 1 change the numbers from 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 to 101, 102... 2 And I've got a plat drawn here of all of it, and it's all on 3 private property. And I'm not asking you to fix any roads 4 or anything. All we want to do is to keep the name as-is, 5 Clarke Drive, and that's the way it's been. And in the 6 ranch there, we've got South Clarke Drive, we've got North 7 Clarke Drive, and the main road is Clarke Drive, and it's 8 been that way since 1975. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Mr. Amerine, if -- 10 if Mr. Clarke dials 9-1-1 from his home, does the "Clarke 11 Drive" pop up on the screen? 12 MR. AMERINE: Not today. That -- not to take 13 anything away from what Mr. Clarke said about the name of 14 the road, it's never been registered with the County through 15 the formal process, so to us it was a private ranch road, 16 that's all. 17 MR. CLARKE: Never had anybody you could talk 18 to. 19 MR. AMERINE: I understand, sir. 20 MR. CLARKE: The first man you had with 21 9-1-1, he ought to have been run out before he ever started. 22 MR. AMERINE: Our objective, of course, is to 23 make sure that we reduce the number of duplicate road names, 24 especially within the same geo-region. We already have a 25 Clark. 10-12-04 43 1 MR. CLARKE: Not anything in that area. 2 MR. AMERINE: Within the same west 3 geo-region. 4 MR. CLARKE: It's in the same Commissioner -- 5 district, but it's -- one's in Ingram, one's way out on a 6 ranch road, and mine is between Ingram and Mountain Home. 7 And, like I say, it's all on private property. Not asking 8 for any upkeep or anything else. All we want is to keep the 9 name as-is. 10 MR. AMERINE: We currently have complaints, 11 not with the Clarke Road, but with other duplicate road 12 names that we have yet to resolve between roads that sound 13 the same. We currently have conflicts. We've currently had 14 the law enforcement/EMS state that they've been confused, 15 because the way the 9-1-1 system works, it displays the 16 name, a phone number, a physical address -- that's a house 17 number -- and a street. It does not -- does not reflect on 18 the screen the community, because the communities are not 19 really that well-defined. It's -- a phone exchange 20 community could be all over the place. We could have people 21 living very close to Ingram that are in a Kerrville 22 extension. So, the point being, I understand Mr. Clarke's 23 point. Our position is that we want to do as much as we can 24 at 9-1-1 to reduce duplicate road names. That the 25 differentiation in an emergency, when someone is calling and 10-12-04 44 1 saying, "I have an emergency at Clark Road or Clarke Drive" 2 will be lost on the dispatcher, and we -- we'll have 3 conflicts, I truly believe, in the future. 4 MR. CLARKE: Well, does "Clarke Drive" sound 5 like "Clark Street"? 6 MR. AMERINE: Yes, it does. 7 MR. CLARKE: It does? 8 MR. AMERINE: Yes, it does. 9 MR. CLARKE: Well, you go to any of the 10 cities, and you'll see names identically the same, only 11 maybe one will be a road, one will be a drive, one will be a 12 street. And I can't see where the difference is. 13 MR. AMERINE: I understand, sir. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mr. Clarke, "Jack Clarke" 15 wouldn't be acceptable to you? I mean, really, I think 16 that's probably -- that will, I think, solve the EMS 17 problems. 18 MR. CLARKE: I think that's just a -- a 19 matter of form. But, I mean, I guess I'm being just as 20 hard-headed as they are. (Laughter.) 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, Jack Clarke seems 22 like a compromise. It keeps the family name on the ranch 23 road, and I know it's private. And I understand the reason 24 why you'd want to use the -- you know, have the Clarke name 25 on it, you know. To me, if you can accept Jack Clarke, that 10-12-04 45 1 would be a way for to us move forward and, I think, meet our 2 guidelines. 3 MR. CLARKE: Okay. I'd be on J. Clarke, 4 then, Drive. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's got to be "Jack." 6 MR. CLARKE: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right? 8 MS. HARDIN: It can't be -- 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It will help with us, 10 Jack, when we go out there, 'cause if they go to the wrong 11 one, they're going to be 40 miles out of the way, and that 12 does cause a situation. 13 MR. CLARKE: Jack Clarke Road? 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Jack Clarke Road. 15 MR. CLARKE: I wanted "Drive." 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Jack Clarke Drive. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: I think we can solve that. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I heard that. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We got it. Jack Clarke 20 Drive. 21 MR. CLARKE: All right. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You are hard-headed. 23 MR. CLARKE: Not near as hard-headed as you 24 are, Buster. (Laughter.) 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: True. 10-12-04 46 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me check with the 2 reporter. Did you get that down, madam reporter? Thank 3 you. 4 MR. CLARKE: Do I need to get a form from 5 y'all or anything to get with 9-1-1 and get this all 6 straightened out? 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We're going to take 8 care of it right now, Mr. Clarke. 9 MR. CLARKE: Sir? 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We're going to take 11 care of it right now. I move that we approve the name "Jack 12 Clarke Road" for the road in question. 13 MR. CLARKE: Drive. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Drive. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 17 the road to be renamed Jack Clarke Drive. Any further 18 question or discussion? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd like to add, 20 that's C-l-a-r-k-e. 21 MR. CLARKE: Right. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All in favor, signify by 23 raising your right hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 10-12-04 47 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 3 MR. CLARKE: Thank you, gentlemen. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you, Mr. Clarke. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Jack. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 7 MR. CLARKE: Well, now, do I -- I was going 8 to say, do I need to get anything to take to 9-1-1 and get 9 all this -- 10 MR. AMERINE: I'm here. 11 MR. CLARKE: You got it? 12 MR. AMERINE: I got it already. 13 MR. CLARKE: Okay. I want to go by and get 14 my signs. Thank you. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait a minute. Wait. 18 Actually, does he install his signs? 19 MR. AMERINE: Well, there's two different 20 ways to do it. If he wants the road sign, he has the option 21 of going through Road and Bridge for a fee, but we've also 22 offered for private roads a standard 9-by-12 blue sign, 23 which we'll put a road sign on if they're willing to mount 24 it on their own post. 25 MR. CLARKE: Well, that's what they told me. 10-12-04 48 1 MR. AMERINE: Yes, sir. 2 MR. CLARKE: They'd put a sign out in front, 3 but then I would put all the rest of them up. 4 MR. AMERINE: Well, if you're going to do one 5 out front, that would be Road and Bridge through Truby 6 Hardin here. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You ought to let them 8 come out there and do that. 9 MR. AMERINE: They can do that. 10 MR. CLARKE: Whatever. 11 MR. AMERINE: We can do the house numbers, 12 but we won't be doing 1, 2, 3, 4. We'll still have to start 13 at 101. 14 MR. CLARKE: That's what I said, 100 through 15 107. 16 MR. AMERINE: Yes, sir. 17 MR. CLARKE: Okay. All right if I leave? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. Appreciate 19 you being here today. Let's see if we can quickly do Item 20 10, consider preliminary plat of Eagle Ridge Subdivision, 21 Precinct 4. 22 (Discussion off the record.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We got Eagle Ridge 24 Subdivision. 25 MR. VOELKEL: I'm here to answer any 10-12-04 49 1 questions if we have them. Mr. Odom's here to make a 2 presentation, I would assume. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- go ahead, Dave. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, this is -- 5 we've looked at the preliminary plat of it before, and we've 6 met with the -- the TexDOT engineer and the -- and the 7 developer. And TexDOT is requiring that, for eight of the 8 lots, that they share a driveway to reduce the number of 9 driveways entering on 1340, and in order to do that, the 10 final plat is going to need to show the length and depth of 11 the driveways. Portions -- as you know, portions of this 12 property are in the floodplain. We're going to need the 13 developer's engineer to ask for a waiver that a drainage 14 study is needed, but we think the drainage study is not 15 needed. When you stand on 1340, you can see where the 16 water's going to go; it's going to go to the Guadalupe 17 River. And the final plat needs to show 20-foot setbacks on 18 each lot. 19 MR. ODOM: Yes. 20 MR. VOELKEL: One other issue I was going to 21 mention, too, on the final plat that we'll come back with -- 22 of course, this plat shows the -- the floodplain line on it. 23 The final plat will actually have -- which is something that 24 the rules are asking for, asking for a B.F.E., or a base 25 flood elevation for each lot. That will show on the final 10-12-04 50 1 plat, and then we'll also have monumentation noted on the 2 final plat for a benchmark for people to use that develop 3 this property, to be able to tie into a benchmark for this 4 elevation. So, that will all be -- 5 MR. ODOM: All be there. 6 MR. VOELKEL: -- on the final plat. 7 MR. ODOM: And I have a note here. It says, 8 "All plats shall contain the following note." Aggie 9 engineering here. "Prior to construction on any lot, the 10 owner of said lot shall..." It's on Page 2 of our -- 11 there's a note that I need to add, I want them to do, and I 12 believe it has to do with -- dealing with either the Highway 13 Department, or -- 14 MR. VOELKEL: Septic systems. 15 MR. ODOM: Septic system, that's it. 16 MR. VOELKEL: It's the note on the final 17 plat, which, since the Environmental Health Department is 18 not signing the plat, it's a plat that goes -- a note that 19 goes on all plats that he does not sign. It's a standard 20 note. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Actually, the -- I've 22 received word from -- we need to start sending them back 23 down through there. We're going to have our new rules -- 24 we'll probably have it on our agenda next time that we -- 25 and I think this is in time; we can grandfather the 10-12-04 51 1 subdivision. He has -- state law requires him to sign 2 all plats -- 3 MR. VOELKEL: Well, just so you'll know, -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- under our Subdivision 5 Rules. 6 MR. VOELKEL: -- the Environmental Health 7 Department has been in the review process for the plat. We 8 submitted a fee for their review, and he got back with me on 9 some items we needed to address, and I addressed those 10 issues. So, they have been in the loop. It's just a matter 11 that they haven't been signing the plat. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Shouldn't be a problem on 13 this one. 14 MR. ODOM: Also, he had said that we had to 15 have the monument location and the minimum floor level the 16 B.F.E. was going to put on here, but I also want on there 17 the minimum -- the lowest floor level minimum on the -- on 18 that B.F.E. so the people will know, and I believe that is 2 19 foot that we have. That has been changed; it's 2 foot above 20 the B.F.E., so I want that on there so that people that buy 21 this lot down here will know. Of course, they're going to 22 be either outside of the 500-year frequency, or they can be 23 in the 500-year frequency. Zone A, definitely they would 24 have a problem, and we would come back on building on that. 25 But, if these notes are made as the Commissioner said, I 10-12-04 52 1 think we're in good shape. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: All the road cuts are 3 on State Highway 1340? 4 MR. ODOM: That's correct. And by -- and 5 there will be a design for each one. There'll be a detail 6 for what that slope will be to get on and off, because at 7 the topo, the land varies. And I've talked to Mike Boyd 8 over there at the State, and he has, I believe, met in the 9 preliminaries before I came aboard with everyone. So that 10 detail will be there for each lot so that it won't be a 11 surprise to the people. They'll know what they have to do 12 to -- to wrap. It will be a double wrap on some of these 13 lots. And so, I -- Lee is doing that now; he's establishing 14 the B.F.E. out there. And I take those topos right at the 15 property line. There'll be a double-wide driveway. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Lee, I have one question. 17 Was this area restudied by FEMA after some of the recent 18 years? 19 MR. VOELKEL: Yes, sir. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is it going to -- 21 MR. VOELKEL: But Waldemar is about where the 22 study ends, so this is beyond the detailed studied area. 23 MR. ODOM: He literally has to go out there 24 and scale it off, and he shot the grade. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I was just wondering, 10-12-04 53 1 'cause those areas that are -- because of the number of 2 significant floods we've had, FEMA has restudied a lot of 3 areas very specifically. I wondered if this is one. 4 MR. VOELKEL: Just beyond that point. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Addressing will be 7 addressing on -- as -- as it would be on 1340? There's not 8 going to be any attempt to establish another Eagle Ridge, is 9 there? Because we already have an Eagle Ridge Road in 10 Precinct 2. So, all addressing will be -- 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes, it will all be 12 1340. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- on 1340? 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes. 15 MR. VOELKEL: We're creating no roads. 16 MR. ODOM: No roads there. There's no roads. 17 MR. VOELKEL: Won't be any road names. 18 MR. ODOM: All access will be off of F.M. 19 1340. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. I'd move that 21 we approve the preliminary plat of Eagle Ridge Subdivision 22 with the requirements that were noted in the minutes. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 25 approval of the agenda item stated. Any further question? 10-12-04 54 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I do have a comment, 2 going back to a comment that Commissioner Nicholson made 3 with regard to the drainage study. Even though I don't 4 think much of a study would be needed, I don't think we 5 should waive that for the final. I think it's a bad 6 precedent. I think that an engineer -- you can get a very 7 quick, you know -- I mean, it's not going to cost much to 8 get an engineer to say drainage is not going to be an issue 9 here. 10 MR. ODOM: He just left, but I believe in 11 that meeting, from my understanding, that the owners were to 12 get their engineer to look at that and to give us a letter 13 of waiver on that, so we would have that in the file. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not really a waiver; it's 15 more a -- they're just saying that it's okay. 16 MR. ODOM: It's okay. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Meets engineering 18 requirements or something along that line. 19 MR. ODOM: Not changing anything. Will not 20 put any roads in, will not put any drainage structures out 21 there. Just driveways, and topos there. It just runs off. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just don't like the word 23 "waiver." 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Good point. 25 MR. ODOM: Probably a pretty good use of the 10-12-04 55 1 English language. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 3 discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion, 4 signify by raising your right hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We 9 have a timed item that we've run past, being Item Number 6, 10 that being the opening of sealed bid proposals for the 11 annual HVAC, electrical, plumbing, and pest control 12 services. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Leonard? 14 MR. ODOM: I'm sorry. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: The first proposal -- 16 MR. KING: My name is Kenneth King. Have we 17 talked about Indian Creek? My Commissioner told me to be 18 here at 10:00 or 10:30. Someone told me it had already been 19 discussed. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We handled that 21 item, and we've made a decision to go ahead and approve the 22 sealcoat on Indian Creek. 23 MR. KING: Without allowing the landowner to 24 talk or anything? That's a pretty tricky way to do that. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, I apologize 10-12-04 56 1 for giving you bad information on the timing. 2 MR. KING: Pretty sorry way to run things. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: The first proposal I have is 4 from Hardin Heating and Cooling. The outside of the 5 envelope is marked "HVAC proposal." The proposal lists 6 hourly rates depending upon the time frame. Scheduled 7 working hours -- do I need to read these each into the 8 record? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Regular working hours 8:00 to 11 5:00, $75 an hour. Overtime working hours, technician per 12 hour, $75. Weekend working hours, technician per hour, $75. 13 Holiday working hours, technician per hour, $75. Charge for 14 components, repair parts, and supplies, cost plus 15 45 percent. Warranties on materials and parts range from 16 one to five years, and labor is one year. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's just HVAC? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Just HVAC only. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, does that same 20 company have a bid for electrical and plumbing? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Don't know. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: As well? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll get there. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is each one of these 25 separate? I mean -- 10-12-04 57 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm dividing them into 2 HVAC, electrical and plumbing and pest control. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: The next bid that I have is 4 from Compton's of Kerrville, HVAC proposal. The amount 5 shown, technician charge per hour, regular working hours, is 6 $67. Helper charge, $33.50. Overtime working hours, 7 technician, $100.50 per hour; helper charge, $50.25. 8 Weekend working hours, technician, $100.50 per hour; helper 9 charge, $50.25 per hour. Holiday working hours, technician 10 charge, $134 per hour; helper charge per hour, $67. Charge 11 for components, repair parts, and supplies, just shows a 12 list. Warranties, materials, and parts, 90 days or per the 13 manufacturer. Labor, 90 days or per the manufacturer's 14 warranty. 15 Next bid that I have is HVAC from State Aire, 16 local company. The regular working hours, $65. Helper -- 17 that's per hour for technician. Helper charge, $37.50, with 18 a notation that additional response time to be as required. 19 Emergency is defined as one hour. Non-emergency is all 20 other, I suppose. Overtime working hours, $97.50 per hour 21 for the technician. Weekend, $97.50 per hour. Holiday, 22 $97.50 per hour. Charge for components, repair parts, and 23 supplies, actual cost plus 30 percent, with a notation of 24 equipment, 20 percent. Warranties, materials and parts, per 25 manufacturer, typically one year. Labor, 90 days per 10-12-04 58 1 service call. 2 The next one I have is from Air Tech, HVAC 3 bid. Regular working hours, technician charge per hour, 4 $64; helper charge, $30 per hour. Overtime, again, $64 an 5 hour; helper charge, $30 an hour. Weekend working hours, 6 technician, $64; helper charge, $30. Holiday working hours, 7 $64 an hour; helper charge, $30. Charge for components, 8 repair parts, and supplies, actual costs plus -- the blank 9 is left blank; plus "blank" percent. Warranties, per 10 manufacturer on parts. Labor, one year. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That was the last one on 12 HVAC, Judge. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have three on the 15 electrical. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, do you think 18 this part of the meeting is the reason we have the room full 19 of citizens today? I mean, this is pretty exciting stuff. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: It is. It was a timed item 21 also, Commissioner. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They drove far to come 23 in and be a part of this. This is good. Dedicated 24 citizens. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: On electrical, first one we 10-12-04 59 1 have is from -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Guadalupe, I believe. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: -- Guadalupe Electric. 4 Regular working hours, $75 per hour; helper charge, $15 an 5 hour. Overtime working hours, electrician, $112.50 per 6 hour; helper charge, $22.50. Weekend working hours, 7 electrician, $150 per hour; helper charge, $30 an hour. 8 Holiday working hours, electrician, $150 an hour; helper 9 charge, $30 an hour. Charge for components, repair parts, 10 and supplies, actual cost plus 80 percent. Warranties, 11 materials, and parts, one year. Labor, one year. Notation, 12 45-foot aerial truck, $125 an hour. 26-foot Genie Lift, $20 13 per hour. 14 Next one is from Butterworth Electric. 15 Regular hours, electrician, $50 an hour; helper charge, 16 $22.50. Overtime charge for electrician, $50 an hour; 17 helper charge, $22.50. Weekend, electrician per hour, $75; 18 helper charge per hour, $33.75. Holiday working, 19 electrician charge, $100 per hour; helper charge, $45 an 20 hour. Charge for components, repair parts, and supplies, 21 actual cost plus 35 percent. Warranties, materials and 22 parts, manufacturer's including one year. Labor, one year. 23 The next one that we have on electrical is 24 D.W. Electric. Regular working hours, $50 an hour, 25 electrician; helper charge, $20 an hour. Overtime, 10-12-04 60 1 technician -- electrician, $70 an hour; helper charge, $30 2 an hour. Weekend electrician, $65 an hour; helper, $30 an 3 hour. Holiday electrician charge, $65 an hour; helper, $30 4 an hour. Charge for components, repair parts, and supplies, 5 actual cost plus 20 percent. Warranties, materials, and 6 parts as per manufacturer's warranty, and labor, one year. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One plumbing. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: One plumbing bid from Whelan 9 Plumbing. There's some notations. I'll try and just hit 10 the high points. Regular working hours, plumber charge, 11 $62.50 an hour; helper, $31.25 an hour. Overtime plumber 12 charge, $93.75 an hour; helper charge, $46.88 an hour. 13 Weekend plumber, $93.75 an hour; helper, $46.88. Holiday 14 plumber charge, $125 an hour; helper charge, $62.50. 15 Charges for components, repair parts, and supplies, actual 16 cost plus 30 percent. Warranties, materials, and parts, 90 17 days on repairs. One year for new fixtures. Labor, same as 18 materials. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Pest control, we have 20 two. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: And we have two on pest 22 control, one from Starkey -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Starkey. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: -- Pest Control. These are 25 all monthly services. Courthouse, 100. Sheriff's 10-12-04 61 1 Department, 230 -- these are dollars. Extension Office, 2 $30. Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center, $60. Animal 3 Control, 30. J.P. 4 and Tax annex, $30, and Adult 4 Probation, 45. 5 And the second one is from Terminix. Here 6 again, monthly services as follows: Courthouse, $95. 7 Sheriff's Office, jail, and J.P. 2, $95. Extension Office, 8 $25. Adult and Juvenile Probation, $95. Hill Country Youth 9 Exhibit, $95. Animal Control, 45. And J.P. 4 and Tax annex 10 in Ingram, $25. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's it. I move we 12 accept all bids and refer them to the director of 13 Maintenance. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 16 acceptance of bids and referral to director of Maintenance 17 for evaluation. Any further question or discussion? All in 18 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Judge, I might 24 change my opinion about County Commissioners being overpaid. 25 I'm thinking about going to electrician school. 10-12-04 62 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Or plumber? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Plumber. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or helper. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. Basically, a 5 helper. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 85 bucks an hour? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Wrong business, huh? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Whew. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Now for the other exciting 10 timed item on today's -- this morning's agenda, open and 11 consider bids for used trucks, one being a water 12 distributor, and the other being an asphalt distributor. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have one for each one, 14 Judge. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is going to be 16 tough. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: The first one is for purchase 18 of the used truck with water distributor. It comes from 19 Cooper Equipment Company in San Antonio. The bid is gross 20 $27,500, allowing a trade-in value of $6,800 for an existing 21 water truck, for a net cost of $20,700. The bid for the 22 used truck with asphalt distributor also comes from Cooper 23 Equipment Company, San Antonio. The gross amount is 24 $49,500. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move we accept both bids 10-12-04 63 1 and refer them to Road and Bridge for recommendation. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 4 acceptance of bids and referral to Road and Bridge 5 Department for review and recommendation. Any further 6 question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify 7 by raising your right hand. 8 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 10 (No response.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Why 12 don't we go to Item 11, consider approving road name changes 13 for privately maintained roads in accordance with 9-1-1 14 guidelines. 15 MS. HARDIN: Good morning, gentlemen. These 16 all fit the guidelines, and I don't think there's any 17 controversy on any of them. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Move for approval. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 21 approval of the agenda item. Any further question or 22 discussion? All in favor, signify by raising your right 23 hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 10-12-04 64 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm going to pass on 12 for 3 right now because of some possible interplay with a later 4 agenda items. Going on to Item 15, consider and discuss 5 approving a resolution or other action to participate in the 6 Indigent Defense Grant Program, and authorize the Judge to 7 sign the same. This is an item that I put on, basically an 8 annual requirement. We get grant funds under the Indigent 9 Defense program, and they require that we provide an annual 10 resolution that says if we administer those funds 11 inappropriately, that we'll be responsible for paying back 12 any that we administer inappropriately. So -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval, and 14 authorize County Judge to sign the same. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 17 approval of the agenda item. Any further question or 18 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 19 your right hand. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Item 13, consider, 24 discuss, and take appropriate action to develop plan for 25 Kerr County's 150th anniversary in April 2006. 10-12-04 65 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, this -- I 2 placed this on the agenda after Commissioner Letz and I met 3 with General Schellhase, who is a member of the Kerr County 4 Historical Commission, with regard to how best -- if and how 5 best to commemorate and celebrate Kerr County's 150th 6 anniversary, which will take place in April of 2006. 7 General Schellhase has put together some of his thoughts -- 8 Walter, if you'd come to the podium, please? -- some of his 9 thoughts with respect to how this might take shape. What we 10 don't know is who-all's going to do it and where the funds 11 are going to come from. But, General Schellhase? 12 MR. SCHELLHASE: Well, at our last Historical 13 Commission report to the Court, we -- meeting update, we 14 asked y'all to put this on the calendar somewhere down the 15 line several months ago. It didn't happen, so we decided to 16 initiate some meetings with a couple Commissioners and say 17 this is something that's -- the time is slipping by. At 18 that time, we had 21 months to get this done; now we have 18 19 months to get this done. So, the Historical Commission 20 feels like that the Commission needs to take the initial 21 steps to get this kicked off, make a decision if they want 22 to do it and feel like it should be done, and how to go 23 about it. We've put together some guidelines based on the 24 100th celebration that was well-done in Kerr County, and we 25 feel like something comparable can be done also. The 10-12-04 66 1 guidelines that we've put together were based on the 100th 2 agenda that they had for the four or five days involved. 3 Our initial charter was issued in the last week in April in 4 1856 -- 1856, so we now have 150 years in 2006. So, we're 5 down to 18 months to get this done. 6 And in some counties -- Commissioner Williams 7 brought back a brochure for Karnes County, where they did it 8 for a whole year, participated in activities for one year. 9 One whole year. Last -- the 100th, that was done on the 10 exact dates of the charter for the county, and for a 11 four-day event. We're recommending again this year that we 12 do it for -- or 2006 for a four-day event, starting on 13 Wednesday and ending on Sunday. And we've laid out several 14 activities that could take place during that period of time, 15 and started on an itemized list of who would participate in 16 that. It's going to have to be a total community activity, 17 and the Commission needs to make a decision whether we want 18 to move forward with this, and -- and would like to remind 19 you that this is a -- a Commission -- a County celebration, 20 not a Kerr County Historical Commission celebration. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think this -- the 22 reason I think it's appropriate, probably, to put this on 23 the agenda now is -- and this is something that I've also 24 shared with General Schellhase -- I don't see the County 25 putting a lot of funds into this, but I think from a -- a 10-12-04 67 1 use of facilities, and possibly through some of the 2 Maintenance Department or some other areas, maybe jail 3 inmates, you know, different things to help where needed 4 could be appropriate. I think it is a worthwhile event. I 5 think if we can just settle on the dates, get the dates set, 6 and then, you know, either members of the Court, members of 7 the community try to figure out a steering committee and 8 move forward. I really don't see that the -- the Court has 9 a whole lot to do with the -- you know, other than bringing 10 attention to it, setting the dates when it's going to be, 11 and allowing courthouse facilities or court facilities -- 12 County facilities to be used with this. I think the key is 13 raising money, and I think that by the Court designating 14 this is when it's going to be, that'll help in that effort. 15 In our discussions, Commissioner Williams, 16 and with General Schellhase, I think it either needs to be 17 taken under the umbrella of some nonprofit, or a new 18 nonprofit created, you know, to have this take place. I 19 think these discussions are going on in both directions 20 right now, so they can raise some grant funds. So -- so, I 21 think that the -- you know, it's something that is 22 worthwhile. I think it was a big plus to Comfort recently 23 when they had their celebration, and I think it's something 24 worthy that this county should, you know, undertake. I 25 think that the Commissioners Court is a good spot to kind of 10-12-04 68 1 kick it off and set the dates, and then turn it back to the 2 community to fill in the blanks and raise the funds. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't -- I don't 4 disagree with what Commissioner Letz is saying, but I do 5 think, first of all, we have to establish that it is -- 6 excuse me -- it is Kerr County's obligation and 7 responsibility. It is the 150th, or sesquicentennial 8 celebration. That is a noteworthy achievement. We should 9 commemorate it to the best possible effort. How we do that 10 is another matter. So, I think today we can set the dates, 11 and I would move that at the right time. But I'm going back 12 and discussing how other counties have done this, and the 13 most notable one that I know about recently was Karnes 14 County, and I provided that information to General 15 Schellhase. They formed a separate corporation and they 16 raised all the moneys necessary to get the job done. And I 17 don't even think the County was involved in any seed money 18 in that particular event. But I think time is of the 19 essence, and I'm not sure that we're going to be able to 20 form a separate corporation and -- and engage the right 21 people to get involved in it, and -- and raise the necessary 22 amount of money and go through all that corporate finagling 23 and so forth and so on. 24 So, I think if we could find the right 25 not-for-profit group -- and the one that comes to mind 10-12-04 69 1 readily is the Arts and Crafts Educational Foundation -- 2 Texas State Official Arts and Crafts Educational Foundation, 3 who has the River Star Park on County grounds. And if those 4 folks would be willing to assume it as a -- as an event that 5 would be staged on their grounds, that would be a good spot 6 to do it. And I think we all need to put our best efforts 7 and minds together in determining who a steering committee 8 would be. I think the steering committee has to have 9 representation from the Historical Commission, because I 10 really believe that's a necessary element to the success of 11 it. But I think each of us, undoubtedly, could think of 12 some person who has enough community involvement and enough 13 willingness to assist in this -- in this matter to get the 14 thing kicked off and rolling. So, I guess that's where we 15 are today. What we want to do is set up the dates 16 officially. Is that correct, gentlemen -- General? 17 MR. SCHELLHASE: Right. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would move that we 19 set the date officially for the Kerr County sesquicentennial 20 celebration as April 23 through 27, 2006. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 23 the event to be set to occur April 23 through 27, 2006. Any 24 question or discussion on the motion? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- you know, I 10-12-04 70 1 guess a little bit more general comment before we vote on 2 that and move forward. I think that every -- everyone on 3 the Court should try to think of one or two individuals from 4 their precincts that can kind of -- that can go to the 5 steering committee. Whether -- whether the Court appoints a 6 steering committee or we kind of help get some names into 7 it, I think one of the things that is important is that you 8 get a good geographical spread. I think you need to have 9 representatives from the far east and the far west and north 10 and south, because there are different communities that can 11 bring something to the table here. So, I think that that is 12 something we can be involved with. And I -- have you talked 13 to Bob Miller, General? 14 MR. SCHELLHASE: Yes, Bob Miller's very 15 interested. And, in fact, I'm meeting again with him at 16 1 o'clock today to get some more details as to what might be 17 involved, and he's kind of interested to see what the Court 18 was going to do first. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think my view, you 20 know, is that if the Texas Arts and Crafts Foundation takes 21 this on, that it would be probably a -- they would be 22 compensated out of some of the funds. Basically, I think 23 you need to have an executive director, for lack of another 24 term; someone who's going to spearhead it and do a lot of 25 work to put on an event of this type. And if it's just done 10-12-04 71 1 on a purely volunteer basis, my gut feeling is it's not 2 going to happen, you know. But I think if you have someone 3 who's paid, and those funds to pay that individual come out 4 of grant proceeds or fundraising in the community, I think 5 we can come up with a very good event that the County can be 6 proud of. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't disagree with 8 that, but I think the most important element now is for us 9 to come up with or assist in the formation of a steering 10 committee, and that has to be people who are connected in 11 the community and have the best interests of the community 12 and want to see the celebration happen. Because fundraising 13 is a -- is a very, very important element of the whole 14 thing, and without that fundraising, it's not going to 15 happen. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree. Okay. 17 MR. SCHELLHASE: I might point out that 50 18 years ago, Kerr County already had a float which was being 19 used in parades around the state. The first one was the 20 Fourth of July. So, we're already -- 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Already had one in 22 the equivalent time frame. 23 MR. SCHELLHASE: Fifty years back, we're 24 already four months behind the curve. And we have 50 more 25 years to cover in that celebration. So -- 10-12-04 72 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 2 discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion, 3 signify by raising your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We'll need to talk 9 again. 10 MR. SCHELLHASE: Could we get the Court to 11 perhaps make a motion or a provision to proceed with a 12 steering committee so we can move forward with that? 13 Perhaps charge each Commissioner with providing two or three 14 names from their geographical region to start this ball 15 rolling? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think my preference, 17 General, would be if we can figure out who the executive 18 director's going to be, and get their input as to how they 19 want to proceed. And I think that the -- you know, I -- we 20 can put it back on the agenda, and at that time have the 21 appointees at the same time. I think we can accomplish it. 22 If the Court's going to make some appointments to a steering 23 committee, we can do that under one agenda item and -- you 24 know, and do that same thing. But I think it's -- really, 25 the first step needs to be to get an executive director, you 10-12-04 73 1 know, at least in place, and then see how they think they, 2 you know, will run the show. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Would it be safe to 4 suggest that both you and I would be willing to join the 5 General in discussions with the Arts and Crafts Fair 6 people -- Mr. Miller -- to see if they're willing to move 7 forward in that direction? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sure. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let's do that. 10 MR. SCHELLHASE: Thank you. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that all we have on this 12 item, gentlemen? Why don't we stand in recess for about 15 13 minutes? 14 (Recess taken from 10:36 a.m. to 10:55 a.m.) 15 - - - - - - - - - - 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's come back to order, the 17 Commissioners Court meeting. Let's go to Item 14, consider 18 and discuss the Policies of Courthouse Building and Grounds 19 to determine if revisions are needed. Commissioner 20 Nicholson, you asked that this be placed on the agenda. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Judge, I put it on 22 the agenda so that we might discuss the issues and come to 23 some -- hopefully come to some sort of consensus about what 24 rules we have for use of the courthouse facility and the 25 courthouse square. At the last two Commissioners Court 10-12-04 74 1 meetings, we've had some discussion about whether or not we 2 have a policy that prohibits political discourse in the 3 courthouse or on the courthouse square, and the debate arose 4 when we reported that some citizens had apparently 5 campaigned for Senator John Kerry on a Market Day Saturday. 6 At our last meeting, it was pointed out that I voted for a 7 policy that prohibited political activity on the courthouse 8 square. This troubled me, and I began to wonder if I had 9 voted for this policy before I voted against it. 10 (Laughter.) 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What did you decide? 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, what I've done 13 is I found the -- the policy that we approved, the 14 guidelines that govern the use of the courthouse building 15 and grounds, and I don't find any -- any prohibition on 16 campaigning or discussing politics or other political 17 discourse in those guidelines. And I also found where we -- 18 our minutes of our Commissioners Court meeting where we 19 discussed that, and I don't find anything in there about 20 barring political discourse on county facilities. It's my 21 opinion that -- that there is no more appropriate place than 22 the courthouse and the courthouse square to engage in 23 political discourse. It's the -- it's the people's 24 courthouse, and we've not -- in my view, we've not done 25 anything to abridge people's First Amendment rights, and I 10-12-04 75 1 would like to see them here engage in political activity. 2 There was also, I think, maybe some view that -- that we ban 3 political signs, including bumper stickers, from -- from the 4 courthouse square, and I don't even see how that would be 5 practical, let alone constitutional. I guess you could -- 6 if I've got a George Bush sticker on my car, I guess I could 7 park it across the street if bumper stickers are banned from 8 the courthouse. But, anyhow, I think we can't let this lie; 9 we have to come to some understanding, some consensus about 10 what are our rules for use of the courthouse square 11 facilities and whether or not political activity is -- is 12 restricted. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner, I -- of course, 14 I'm the one that brought the policy to the court that 15 subsequently was approved last June. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How many times? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: It was the third time I 18 brought it -- or third time since I've been on the Court 19 that it had been brought to the Court. Let me clear up one 20 thing. It's been indicated to me that -- that I am 21 responsible for a declaration or an edict that there shall 22 be no political meetings in the courthouse or on the 23 grounds. That's not correct. I did with respect to the 24 courthouse building itself, and it was a matter that was 25 brought to the Court and -- and officially adopted, that -- 10-12-04 76 1 that the courthouse be used for official government 2 business, with the stated exceptions in the policy, and the 3 political exception being the -- being the conventions that 4 are required under the Election Code by -- by the political 5 parties. And we've done that and will continue to do that. 6 That's an exception. I -- I certainly didn't -- didn't 7 propose anything with respect to the courthouse grounds. 8 The policy speaks for itself. 9 The -- the recent incidents that brought 10 attention to this matter both occurred during the Market Day 11 function, and at that point, that was a contract user, which 12 is permitted under the -- under the policy, and the -- the 13 Market Days people had control of the courthouse grounds 14 where supposedly this activity occurred. If the Court wants 15 to change the use of the facilities, the courthouse building 16 itself, to allow any sort of political meeting, that's 17 certainly the Court's prerogative. I would suggest that 18 we're going to get into issues, as was the concern 19 previously, that you're concerned about having people 20 available to make sure that the courthouse is secure, 21 that -- that there's cleanup that has to be done. 22 After-hours situations come into play. It was not meant to 23 attempt to restrict or otherwise prohibit political or other 24 free speech. Certainly, that's -- that's acceptable. You 25 can't control what people say. But the issue came about 10-12-04 77 1 because of the -- the other collateral issues; the staffing 2 issues, the personnel issues, the security issues, the 3 maintenance and cleanup issues. That's how that came to be. 4 With respect to the outside of the grounds, 5 the only -- the only opinions I've heard expressed are that 6 we certainly don't want our courthouse grounds looking like 7 Bandera County has in the past. They had a -- it was just 8 riddled with various campaign signs and materials. I think 9 Commissioner Williams had an opportunity to observe it. I 10 observed it, and it -- it looked worse than a landfill, very 11 frankly. But, you know, it's up to the Court. I wanted to 12 clear up the misconception, though, that I had -- that I had 13 issued an edict that there shall be no organized political 14 activity on the courthouse grounds. That's not even the 15 policy. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, you don't have the 17 authority to issue edicts, I don't think. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: That's right. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That shouldn't have been 20 an issue. But I think -- and I don't -- I'm not real sure 21 how the whole thing got to where we are today. I think it's 22 a good discussion. The issue originally was we contract 23 with the Market Days people to do a function on the 24 courthouse grounds a certain number of weekends or days a 25 year. And the purpose -- and that contract says -- you 10-12-04 78 1 know, while it specifically, I don't think, said they 2 couldn't have political vendors, I think the intent of the 3 Court always has been that that was to be a -- to sell 4 produce and local-made crafts, and I think the rub was that 5 it was a -- a use of Market Days which was not the intended 6 purpose of Market Days. It had nothing to do with free 7 speech. It was use of a contract that we have with the 8 entity, Market Days. And I think, as Commissioner Baldwin 9 and others have said, that issue can be addressed when we 10 renew that contract with that association. 11 From a free speech standpoint, and the 12 political -- there's nothing in our policy that prohibits 13 people talking politics on the courthouse grounds, having 14 bumper stickers or anything like that. There is, as I would 15 read our rules, a prohibition against doing a political 16 rally on the grounds. And the reason is just as you said, 17 maintenance. We have certain people, you know, nonprofit 18 civic organizations, school organizations, veterans groups 19 that are recurrent contract users, the ones that can have 20 organized events on the courthouse square. I really don't 21 have a problem with letting political parties do it too, but 22 I think the issue is more an accountability and maintenance 23 issue than anything else. And, you know, we can easily add 24 the -- you know, to me, I think it's a -- probably a good 25 spot to have political rallies. However, the political 10-12-04 79 1 parties are going to be responsible for the cleanup and the 2 maintenance and making sure that trash is picked up if we do 3 that, just like we do with every other civic organization 4 that uses it. And they actually may qualify under civic 5 organizations; depends on how you want to define "civic 6 organization." But I think that's the -- there's never been 7 any prohibition that I can see about people talking politics 8 on the courthouse square. That's ridiculous. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: How about something 10 more formal? For example, if I want to announce my 11 candidacy for governor, and call the press and tell them 12 that I'm going to be on the courthouse steps to make that 13 announcement, then that's acceptable political activity, 14 right? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's happened. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's happened 18 before. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I want to clarify, 21 you know, my comments. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: I didn't know he announced for 23 governor, though. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I may have to change 25 parties, but I've got it in mind. (Laughter.) 10-12-04 80 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Maybe that's a 2 portent of things to come, Judge. I want to clarify also my 3 comments with respect to signage. My comment was limited 4 solely to placing signs on stakes, driving them into the 5 ground, and leaving them there. And I likened that to what 6 I know to be the fact -- was the fact in Bandera, although I 7 think they've now rescinded that, and they do -- I believe 8 they, if I recollect correctly, are not allowing any in any 9 more. I think that's not acceptable. My -- my issue is an 10 even playing field. If a political party wishes to conduct 11 a rally, fine and dandy, just so that any political party 12 that's legitimate in Kerr County has an equal right and 13 equal opportunity to do so, and equal -- equal obligation to 14 clean up the grounds and make certain they left them in the 15 same condition that they found them, and that's my only 16 concern. 17 We've already accommodated Kerr County's 18 political parties having their -- their conventions here, 19 and precincts going to have their conventions here. That's 20 all quite legitimate and quite acceptable, as far as I'm 21 concerned. That's all part of the public discourse on -- on 22 the political issues, and I think that's quite acceptable. 23 So, I never once said anything about bumper stickers. If 24 you've got a bumper sticker on your car, I think it would be 25 ludicrous to think that you couldn't park here or that you 10-12-04 81 1 should take the bumper sticker off before you drove on the 2 grounds. That was never what I said, nor never my intent. 3 I think that would be a -- that would be just totally out of 4 the realm of -- of good judgment. So -- and I don't plan to 5 take mine off of my truck right now, either. So -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And another comment I 7 have -- and the issue doesn't go with the rallies being held 8 here; it's the procedure for doing so. And I think that's 9 real clear, and it says in our procedures, "Any group 10 desiring to use any portion of the courthouse grounds shall 11 make the request for such use in writing to the Courthouse 12 Facilities Director." All we want to know is who's going to 13 be accountable if something is damaged or trash isn't picked 14 up. That's a pretty simple process. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think Commissioner 16 Letz' comments earlier about the -- the flap, if in fact a 17 flap does exist, had to do with the Market Days. I think 18 there was a general feeling that whatever took place was not 19 within the context of our understanding of how they would 20 operate on the grounds. So, if somebody wants to stage a 21 rally after Market Days leaves that day, cleans up the 22 grounds, far as I'm concerned, go for it. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: We had a couple of 24 participations requested for this particular issue. 25 Mr. John Moorman. Yes, sir? You filed a participation 10-12-04 82 1 request? 2 MR. MOORMAN: Yes, sir. May I speak now? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Certainly, sir. 4 MR. MOORMAN: Okay. I'm John Moorman, and I 5 live over in Kerrville South. And I would like to start out 6 with a couple of compliments, first to Commissioner 7 Nicholson for again raising the issue and allowing for some 8 further clarification, because, hearing from several of you 9 gentlemen and in the community, there really has been a lot 10 of misinformation and confusion and concern. But it is a -- 11 a very important issue, so I think it's worth spending a few 12 more minutes on. I also appreciate the nonpartisan tone 13 that I've heard here today, because we know this is a very 14 contentious election year, and it's real easy for people's 15 emotions to get inflamed, and misinformation and that sort 16 of thing. 17 I'd like to address my brief comments to two 18 points, one having to do with the policy passed in June 19 having to do with the use of the courthouse building and 20 grounds, and then, secondly, to the contract of Market Days. 21 It's been helpful to hear the discussion. I understand now 22 that the courthouse grounds are open to a wide variety of 23 uses, as long as there is written request to the courthouse 24 administrator, who would then outline what responsibilities 25 the organization would need to -- and, you know, who would 10-12-04 83 1 be liable if there's damage and that sort of thing, and that 2 certainly sounds reasonable. The use of the courthouse 3 building, the inside, when it's not normally open, I also 4 think that's very reasonable that you would want to have 5 somebody here opening and closing the building, being 6 responsible for security, cleanup, that sort of thing. So, 7 now that that's clarified, I think that there may be several 8 groups interested in holding some rallies or some political 9 activity on the courthouse lawn, and now that we know what 10 the -- the rules are, why, I think it would be much simpler 11 to follow them. 12 As to the Market Days, which is how we got 13 into the whole thing, just a couple of facts. My 14 understanding is that the manager of the courthouse -- or 15 the Marketing Days stated that the Republicans had had a 16 booth there twice. The Republican -- the Democrats had a 17 booth there once. If you look at their web site, their web 18 site says one of their functions is for community groups to 19 meet and network, quote, unquote. To use Marketplace Days 20 as a place to get to know people and -- and network. And, 21 by precedent, apparently, passing out literature, you know, 22 kind of fitting in, having a booth, that sort of thing, has 23 apparently been a historically accepted practice. My 24 concern is that when the Democrats attempted to sign up for 25 a booth for the remainder of the Market Days between now and 10-12-04 84 1 the election, their check was returned to them and they were 2 told that they could not have a booth, even though there had 3 been a precedent set for that. And I think the issue that 4 that raises is one of, has there been a change in policy? 5 And, if so, where -- or why was there a change in policy? 6 The perception in the community is that the 7 Commissioners Court had put pressure -- under threat of not 8 renewing a contract, had put pressure on the Market Days to 9 exclude political -- Republican or Democrat -- booths until 10 the contract was renewed. So, that's the problem that I 11 have today. Is -- does the Court hold that their contract 12 with the Market Days would disallow either Republicans or 13 Democrats to have a booth during Market Days? And if you 14 could give me just an up or down, yes-or-no answer to that, 15 I would appreciate it. Because if you're saying that your 16 -- the contract -- your interpretation of that contract is 17 that they can't have -- allow political parties to have 18 booths, why, then we'll discuss that with you after the 19 election, and maybe during the next election when some of 20 you Commissioners are running. If your answer is that it is 21 allowed, well, then, I think we might like to go back to the 22 Market Days folks and perhaps ask for a booth. Thank you. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Dot Larimer? 24 MS. LARIMER: Thank you, sir. Good morning, 25 gentlemen. Gosh, I hate to even start after John's very -- 10-12-04 85 1 very good words there. But let me say, first of all, that 2 the agenda item as it was printed doesn't have a for or 3 against position. There's no motion indicated at this point 4 on the printed agenda that was provided to the public. I 5 do, however, favor freedom of speech on the courthouse 6 square. I've read the policy that you're addressing today. 7 As it is written, it seems to me to be sufficient. The way 8 it has been interpreted is what I see to be the problem. At 9 election time, it is customary for persons with particular 10 political persuasions to express their various opinions by 11 speaking outside the voting site, by wearing their hats, 12 their T-shirts, their buttons, et cetera, by putting bumper 13 stickers and banners on their cars, on their pickups, on 14 their vans, their SUV's, and yes, even their RV's. The law 15 requires the 100-foot distance marker for any of these to 16 occur. Beyond that marker, any other disallowance in public 17 areas, I would suggest, may be a violation of a citizen's 18 First Amendment rights. 19 I've heard it mentioned that the only reason 20 for the current policy is to keep costs down as they relate 21 to maintenance; that is, to litter. There has been a 22 similar problem in years past on Texas highways, and the 23 people who deal with those concerns have addressed those 24 concerns in a different way. They didn't close down the 25 highways to people who might litter the highways. Let me 10-12-04 86 1 say that we all know that democracy is messy, but it's the 2 best thing we've got. And I can't think of another thing 3 that might be even better. And I would encourage you to 4 make an interpretation that dealt with those issues that I 5 have suggested are important for voters and people who are 6 campaigning in a way similar to what the Highway Department 7 did. I think it was during Mark White's administration that 8 the campaign, "Don't Mess with Texas" began, and groups 9 began cleaning up the mess that was on the highway, and 10 they're doing a pretty good job. Perhaps those people who 11 come to the courthouse square could make sure that their 12 signs are removed. But during election time, I think it's 13 really important to allow people to have their signs and to 14 have them out where people can see them, even during early 15 voting. I know that there are some people who are going to 16 be opposed to that because of the negative comments that 17 have been made about Bandera. It may be messy, but that's 18 what democracy is all about. I thank you for your time. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Is there anyone 20 else that wishes to be heard on this particular agenda item? 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: One thing real quick, 22 Your Honor. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Sheriff? 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The -- I was just 25 looking at the policy that you have as far as the rallies. 10-12-04 87 1 Some of y'all will remember -- the only thing I'd like to 2 see -- it says they have to make written notice to the 3 Facilities Manager, being Glenn. If you do revise the 4 policy, the only preference I would have in there is that 5 there's a time frame. Because a lot of people that do the 6 rallies, whether it be political or whether it be like we 7 had several years ago, the KKK, when they did theirs, I need 8 time to be able to set up security issues around the 9 courthouse. And that would be my only thing that needs to 10 be set up, 'cause it does require a lot more manpower at 11 times when you're talking security issues that need to be 12 addressed. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sheriff, on that point, I 14 think we tried -- I think we intentionally left the policy 15 as broad as possible, and hopefully, if there's going to be 16 a -- you know, a group that is likely to attract a large 17 number of -- of participants, that the Maintenance Director 18 will contact your office. But -- and I think that's 19 something you need to work out with that -- that department. 20 Because if it's a group -- a rally that's going to likely 21 attract 10, 15, 20 people, there's no reason for you to be 22 involved. But if it's going to attract 2,000, yes, you need 23 to be involved. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Depending on what type 25 of group is coming, yeah. Yes, sometimes we are. 10-12-04 88 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Needs to be worked out. 2 Basically, it's the discretion of the Facilities Director. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'd like to see a 4 minimum -- give us at least time to be able to set up 5 off-duty personnel coming in. As far as the signs all 6 around, the only problem that would cause us if people put 7 signs all over is it's our department now, pretty well, 8 through the work program, that does all the yard maintenance 9 out there as far as mowing, and I don't want our guys to 10 have to get in the habit of pulling up and putting back 11 political signs all over the courthouse square during this 12 time of year. That would take a lot of time, and if they 13 don't get them back where that person wanted their 14 particular sign, or where it was before, it's just going to 15 cause a headache for us. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: My experience with 17 rallies -- political rallies where signs are involved is 18 that when the people come with the signs, that's one thing, 19 and that's absolutely fine. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If they want to hold 22 up two signs in two hands, or four signs in three hands, 23 doesn't make any difference to me. When the people go, the 24 signs go. And that's my only point, instead of driving 25 stakes in the ground and leaving them here and cluttering up 10-12-04 89 1 the courthouse lawn. I don't want my sign there, and I 2 don't want your sign there on the courthouse square in a 3 permanent type position. If you want to stage a rally and 4 bring 500 people, 500 signs, be my guest. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the only other 6 comment in response to Mr. Moorman's comment, it's not an 7 agenda item to discuss the contract with Market Days, is one 8 thing, so we really can't discuss that. But I have not -- 9 well, this Court and me personally, or as a commissioner, 10 have not visited with anyone from Market Days. So, I mean, 11 we have -- the Court has given Market Days people no 12 direction one way or the other on what they're doing. 13 They -- they can choose to do their contract the way they 14 see fit, and we'll, you know, react accordingly when we -- 15 or make changes accordingly in the new contract. I mean, I 16 can't say anything. I mean, all I can say is that, you 17 know, I don't -- well, I can tell you today, there's not an 18 agenda item that allows the Court to, you know, really 19 discuss that contract. Now, I think that the -- the point 20 you had that under the -- if they are basing their decision 21 on, you know, community involvement, that's a pretty good 22 argument, you know. I mean, I can see that argument, but 23 it's a -- you know, I don't see that we can give you a -- a 24 yes or no today, because it's not something we can discuss. 25 And, further, as I said, Market Days people have never come 10-12-04 90 1 to the Court as a whole. May have come to some of the 2 individual Commissioners; I don't know. I have not talked 3 to them. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Not me. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not me. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, you know -- 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you wish to be heard, 8 ma'am? 9 MS. OHLSON: Yes, please. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Come forward, please. Give 11 your name to the reporter. 12 MS. OHLSON: My name is Shirley Ohlson, 13 O-h-l-s-o-n. As -- as you talked about, you know, the 14 question about whether or not there was permission given, 15 you know, to them to do such and so, or what they thought, I 16 would request that the Court find out where the lady did get 17 the impression that certain people were not to be allowed -- 18 political groups were not to be allowed to come to Market 19 Days. I think it's very important for the Court to find 20 that out, because she invited us in first. She was very 21 glad to have us there, and then suddenly she says, "I'm 22 sorry, but you can't be there," and she returns our money. 23 So, I think it's very important for the Court to find this 24 out, to follow through on it, and to make it a part of 25 public record. I hope that's not an unreasonable request. 10-12-04 91 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ma'am, I don't -- I don't 2 want to get in a dialogue. I don't disagree with you at 3 all, but the Market Days people have not come to the Court. 4 MS. OHLSON: They returned our check. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But that's -- 6 MS. OHLSON: So something -- something gave 7 her the impression, and the only people that have that 8 ability are sitting right in front of me. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- I disagree. I 10 think the impression came possibly from the press. 11 MS. OHLSON: Well, I wish that you would find 12 out for me. Would you do that? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I can't -- how? 14 MS. OHLSON: All you have to do is just call 15 her and find out. One of you, anyway. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Ohlson? 17 MS. OHLSON: Yes? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Have you made inquiry of the 19 Market Days management? 20 MS. OHLSON: I know that the Market Days 21 management returned our check and said that it was not 22 feasible for her to have us there. Dot might wish to -- to 23 address that a little bit more. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the extent of your 25 information? 10-12-04 92 1 MS. OHLSON: That is my information. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I guess my question is, 3 did anybody inquire why this action was taken by the Market 4 Days people? 5 MS. LARIMER: I'm very sorry that I don't 6 have the letter with me that she sent to me, but I was left 7 with the impression that it was a matter of their contract 8 renewal was being held over their head, so to speak, and 9 that they were going to interpret the policy of -- in such a 10 way that it would not allow us to be there. Let's see if I 11 can recall -- one of the things I was told was that we 12 couldn't come in -- 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Was this in the letter? 14 MS. LARIMER: -- as a nonprofit -- no, this 15 part that I'm getting ready to tell you was not in the 16 letter. But the part I'm getting ready to tell you was 17 the -- the person I spoke with on the telephone, at the 18 Market Days telephone number that's listed on their 19 brochure. We were told we couldn't come in under a -- I'm 20 sorry, I'm having a hard time recalling all of these terms. 21 If I had the policy in front of me, I could refer to it 22 exactly. But she said we had to -- to show 501(c)(3) papers 23 in order to be a nonprofit. Well, I spoke with an attorney 24 about that, and the attorney said you don't have to be a 25 501(c)(3) in order to be a nonprofit. Now, that's why I 10-12-04 93 1 said that I think it's a matter of interpretation of the 2 policy that is the problem. And if, here today, each of you 3 could do something that would help to interpret the 4 policy -- what you're dealing with today is the policy. If 5 you could interpret the policy in such a way that the people 6 at Market Days would be absolutely clear that they could 7 allow both the Democratic party and the Republican party to 8 have a booth at Market Days without them being penalized or 9 dressed down when it comes time for them to renew their 10 contract, I think they would feel more comfortable about 11 that as well. I can't speak for them, and I'm sorry they're 12 not here to speak, but that's my interpretation of the 13 situation. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: If I understand you correctly, 15 ma'am, when you asked why you were not accepted, the 16 response was if you could present a 501(c)(3) certification, 17 that would be acceptable? 18 MS. LARIMER: I believe that was the way it 19 was put. I said, couldn't we enter under the -- 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Civic organization 21 is -- I think is what you -- 22 MS. LARIMER: Well, I looked at all of the 23 things that were listed there, and we are nonprofit and we 24 are civic organization. And they said -- they just said no, 25 they just -- they don't want to deal with it. They don't 10-12-04 94 1 want the hassle. And they -- I'm left with the 2 impression -- I can't speak for them, and don't think that 3 I'm trying to speak for them, but I'm left with the 4 impression that they just don't want to deal with the hassle 5 when it comes time for renewal. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I -- 7 JUDGE TINLEY: That was your impression. 8 MS. LARIMER: That was my impression. If I 9 had the letter that was sent to me, I would give you the 10 letter. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Certainly, that would be the 12 best indicator of what their response was. But -- 13 MS. LARIMER: But could you, here today, make 14 an interpretation so that they would understand that it 15 would be all right for us as a group to be there? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Unfortunately, the Market Days 17 contract, which is what we're talking about now, is nowhere 18 on the agenda. 19 MS. LARIMER: That's what I said. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: As a consequence, we're not in 21 a position to -- to discuss the Market Days contract. There 22 will be a time, obviously, when that -- when that will be 23 available to us. 24 MS. LARIMER: But, sir, the policy is what is 25 on the agenda, and if you could interpret the policy at this 10-12-04 95 1 point, as an agenda item, to say whether or not that -- we 2 would be allowed on the courthouse square. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: I disagree with you as to the 4 issue. 5 MS. LARIMER: Okay. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: The issue is, what does the 7 contract with Market Days people say? 8 MS. LARIMER: That's not what's on the 9 agenda. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: I understand. 11 MS. LARIMER: Okay. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: And the interpretation of that 13 contract is not on the agenda, and what the Market Days 14 people are operating under is the contract, so that's really 15 where the issue is contained. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Let me explain. In my 17 opinion, political events can take place on the courthouse 18 square under a civic organization, but it has nothing to do 19 with Market Days. They're two -- they're two separate -- I 20 mean, and I -- that's just the way I look at it. I mean, 21 and I don't have the Market Days contract; it's not on the 22 agenda. I haven't really looked at it, 'cause no one's 23 asked me to. I mean, the issue -- you know, there's a 24 contract issue with Market Days. That's one, and the other 25 issue is, can political functions use the courthouse square? 10-12-04 96 1 And on that latter one, yes, I think -- you know, 2 political -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- you know, parties can 5 hold rallies and do what they want, you know, if they just 6 request it through the Maintenance Director. But -- 7 MS. LARIMER: But not at Market Days? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, it has nothing to 9 do with Market Days. Market Days basically has a license to 10 be in charge of the courthouse square on those days, if that 11 makes sense. I still see a blank look. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: The control, as it were, of 13 the courthouse grounds on the dates and hours covered by the 14 Market Days contract is covered by that agreement. With 15 respect to other times, they're covered by the policy. And, 16 were any political group to seek permission at some time 17 other than the Market Days dates and hours, that would be a 18 matter of separate consideration. Since we, by contract, 19 have given the Market Days people the authority to have the 20 control of the grounds during that period of time, the Court 21 doesn't feel like we have the authority to give them a 22 contract and then come right in on top of them and pile 23 things on them, as it were, over and above that which the 24 contract calls for. 25 MS. LARIMER: So, if -- 10-12-04 97 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you see where I'm coming 2 from? 3 MS. LARIMER: I see where you're coming from. 4 So, if they should change their minds and accept my deposit 5 and check for a booth on the courthouse square at the next 6 Market Days, you would not have any objection to our being 7 there; is that correct? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: That is a matter that's under 9 the Market Days contract agreement, and the Market Days 10 people are in control for the grounds at that particular 11 time and on those dates. 12 MS. LARIMER: Exactly. But you would not 13 have any objection if they accepted our check and allowed us 14 on the courthouse square at that time? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: We have no right to object. 16 MS. LARIMER: Sounds good to me. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: They're administering that 18 contract. Now, when the contract comes up for renewal, it 19 may be a matter of discussion at that point in time as to 20 how the contract will be framed for future events, if any. 21 MS. LARIMER: And I see that's what their 22 concern is. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But let me also say on 24 that point that every year that we do this contract, or 25 every year -- this is going to be the third year, I think, 10-12-04 98 1 that we enter into this contract -- changes are made. And, 2 you know, this has come up -- it's a new thing that's come 3 up. I don't think -- I think people are -- I think they're 4 trying to read things into it that I don't -- personally 5 don't see, is the problem. I mean, I think the -- 6 MS. LARIMER: Who's they? "They" are trying 7 to read things into it? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You are trying to read 9 into it. I mean, I -- I mean, I think that there's a -- the 10 issue is that this was not the original intent of the 11 contract when they first brought it to us three years ago, 12 of having political items. Doesn't mean it can't be there, 13 but it's not the -- it's not what they told us originally 14 they wanted to do. If they want us -- you know, I don't 15 have a big problem one way or the other with it. I just 16 think the people need to live up to their contract with it, 17 and if they want to do this, they -- if they want to let, 18 you know, other vendors come in, make -- you know, that's 19 something that's open for discussion. I mean, I think -- I 20 don't know where they have gotten some of the perceptions, 21 other than the media, 'cause they haven't talked to me. 22 That's all I can say. I don't know if they talked to any 23 other Commissioners or not. I've not talked with anybody 24 associated with Market Days in months. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Nor have I. 10-12-04 99 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Neither have I. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, that's all I can say. 3 MS. LARIMER: Well, I've heard from three of 4 the Commissioners. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: I talk to people with Market 6 Days probably twice a month, 'cause that's when they're 7 here, 'cause I'm generally down here on Saturday -- every 8 Saturday, nearly. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are you wanting me to 10 respond? You're asking me if I communicated with -- with 11 the Market Days people? Is that your question? 12 MS. LARIMER: Well, I didn't ask a question. 13 These -- these others have volunteered the information that 14 they have not spoken with the people at Market Days. And -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have. 16 MS. LARIMER: -- I was just hoping -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have. Yes, ma'am, I 18 have. And I indicated to them that we would deal with the 19 contract December 9, I think is the time. And I have no 20 intentions of stopping the contract. I have all intentions 21 of renewing the contract. I like the program. I think this 22 entire issue has spun completely out of control. I simply 23 said -- and I have no problem with political parties. I've 24 seen senators, governors, all kinds of people here in this 25 courthouse and the courthouse lawn. I simply said that on 10-12-04 100 1 that particular day, when there was a -- the 9/11 program 2 was going on on the lawn, it offended a lot of people. And 3 I stand by that; it did offend a lot of people. And I would 4 fight to see that that offense was not -- does not occur 5 again. Simple as that. It didn't have anything to do with 6 freedom of speech, had nothing to do with who you are or 7 what party. I said that in the newspaper a couple of times, 8 actually. Had nothing to do with any of that. It's just 9 that particular day when there was a lot of veterans here, 10 and they were offended. 11 MS. LARIMER: Well, not all of them were 12 offended, and you heard from another one. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm not going to get 14 off into some silly argument with you at all. I'm telling 15 you what was said, and the thing has been spun out there by 16 good politicians. Y'all seem to be good politicians. 17 Republicans and Democrats have spun this thing out there. 18 That's -- there's nothing to this issue at all. Nothing to 19 it. 20 MS. LARIMER: Well, that's good to know. I 21 would like to know if -- if I could have a response from you 22 regarding the comments that I made with regard to signs, 23 shirts, T-shirts, hats, buttons, bumper stickers, banners on 24 various vehicles on the courthouse square during early 25 voting, and on election day. That will take place in the 10-12-04 101 1 courthouse. And, as I mentioned, we know there is a law 2 about the 100-foot distance marker. We're aware of that, 3 but beyond the distance marker, it is customary everywhere 4 in these United States for people to be able to campaign 5 beyond the distance marker, and how would you interpret that 6 and allowing us to campaign in that way? How would you 7 interpret the policy allowing us to campaign? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll start on this. I 9 think it's been said at least a dozen times here at this 10 table that there is nothing wrong with that. Maybe 15 11 times. I think -- personally, I think it's okay, as long as 12 you're outside the 100-foot marker, you don't break the 13 state law, that you do not put a sign -- do not hammer a 14 sign in the yard out there. Do not do that. That's what -- 15 MS. LARIMER: So, it's carry the sign, but 16 don't leave it? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think you can -- I 19 mean, I think that -- one, we couldn't change anything today 20 anyway, because it's not on the agenda. But -- you know, 21 and I think if you wanted clarification, or any party wants 22 clarification, or if Jannett -- you're really not involved. 23 If Glenn wants clarification, he can put it on our next 24 agenda as to whether we're going to allow political signs 25 the day of the election or not. We can, you know, discuss 10-12-04 102 1 it again. But as of right now, I mean, you can have bumper 2 stickers, buttons on your car; you can walk around, you can 3 -- you know, carrying signs. You can have -- what do we 4 call those things that you -- sandwich boards on. You can 5 do anything you want, as long as you meet state law. 6 Permanent signs being hammered in the courthouse, that's a 7 no for any organization. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let's see if I can 9 simplify it. If you drive up, Dot, in your car with a Kerry 10 sticker on it, or Bush sticker on it, whatever, and you're 11 wearing a T-shirt emblazoned with whatever it is, supporting 12 your candidate of choice, and you have buttons all over your 13 hat and you're carrying a sign and you stay 100 feet beyond 14 the limit, God love you. 15 MS. LARIMER: Thank you. Very good. I thank 16 you all for your attention to this matter and for your 17 consideration in every way. Thank you very much. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Does anybody have a motion to 19 offer on the agenda item? Hearing none, we'll move on. 20 Item 16, consider and discuss approval of the 15th Amendment 21 and extension of the City/County Fire Fighting Agreement, 22 and authorize County Judge to sign the same. This is a 23 renewal of our agreement with the City of Kerrville with 24 regard to firefighting services. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 10-12-04 103 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 3 approval of the agenda item. Any further question or 4 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 5 your right hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Next 10 item on the agenda is consider and discuss the appointment 11 of Betty Burney to serve as temporary Justice of the Peace, 12 Precinct 3. Commissioner Letz. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I put this on the agenda. 14 As you'll recall, at our last meeting we had appointed Kari 15 O'Dell to -- as a temporary J.P. until we filled that slot. 16 She has since served notice that she does not wish to serve 17 in that capacity, and I think we need to have someone 18 online. I talked to Judge Burney -- former Judge Burney, if 19 she'd be willing to fill in as needed. Her compensation 20 would come out of the salary line item. May have to be 21 transferred in the part-time, or however we do that. The 22 Treasurer handles that part, but it would be whatever the 23 hourly compensation rate is for a J.P. on a contract basis, 24 and ask her to -- if she would be willing to fill in until 25 we make a permanent appointment to fill that position. And 10-12-04 104 1 Judge Burney agreed. I think she's amply qualified; she's 2 done this before. And that's -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Two questions. Judge 4 Burney, do you need to be bonded? To serve on a three -- 5 three-week or two-week or -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably so. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Need to be bonded? 8 Yes? 9 MS. BURNEY: I suppose so. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And, you know, mother 11 said not to swear, but you have to be sworn and all that, 12 wouldn't you? So, we need to come up with the 150 or 13 whatever it is for a bond. 14 MS. BURNEY: I don't know how they charge on 15 a -- a short-time basis. If it's a full -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, okay. That was 17 my only concern. Certainly, Judge Burney's been a servant 18 to this community for -- well, I won't go into how many 19 years. 20 MS. BURNEY: Let's not go there. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, ma'am. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: I appreciate you mentioning 23 that, Judge Burney, 'cause I was about to ask, so I'm not 24 going to do that. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think I visited -- 10-12-04 105 1 and I don't see there's a whole lot of -- there is not, you 2 know, a lot of work, necessarily, that has to be done. A 3 lot of it can be put off, but there is a weekend coming up. 4 I know, from talking with the other J.P.'s, that -- that 5 J.P. 3 was on-call, and there may be a few things come in 6 that need to be dealt with. So, I don't think it'll be a 7 full-time slot for the rest of this month, plus or minus a 8 few days. So, I'll make a motion that we appoint Betty 9 Burney to serve as temporary J.P., Precinct 3. Funds to pay 10 the salary will come out of the salary line item for J.P. 3, 11 and it'll be at the hourly rate for J.P.'s, as determined by 12 the Treasurer. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is there a time 14 frame? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Until the appointment of 16 a permanent position. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 19 approval of the agenda item. Any question or discussion? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This bonding issue -- 21 I think the bonding issue really needs to be addressed. I 22 mean, 'cause I don't think that she can do any business 23 there without being bonded, and that's a -- that takes a 24 while to go through the insurance company and get all that 25 done, so somebody needs to jump on that pretty quick. 10-12-04 106 1 JUDGE TINLEY: She's previously been bonded, 2 so I think -- I think that's going to make that a -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hope so. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: -- much more doable thing from 5 a time frame standpoint. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: One question. And 7 everybody knows I've known Judge Burney forever, and would 8 love to have her back as a J.P. again. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Sheriff, I said we weren't 10 going to go into this time frame, because she warned me 11 about it. Now you've done it. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: My only concern is, can 13 a person living outside that precinct legally be appointed 14 as a fill-in J.P.? 'Cause that could affect things that she 15 has to do for our office. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Only thing I can remember 17 is, my recollection is that we did the same thing for Judge 18 Knox. Am I not right, Judge Burney? Didn't you fill in for 19 Judge Knox for a while? 20 MS. BURNEY: Yes. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. And you weren't a 22 J.P. at that point, either? I don't recall. 23 MS. BURNEY: I've always been a J.P. when I 24 filled in for anybody. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But -- you were a J.P., 10-12-04 107 1 but you weren't in office at that point. I think that was 2 after you had left office when you were -- 3 MS. BURNEY: Not that I recall. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I can't remember. She 5 was -- she was a J.P. at that point? 6 MS. NEMEC: I believe so. She was just 7 taking over the duties at the time. I've gotten questions 8 -- I've gotten calls, questions whether that could be done 9 or not too, so I don't know. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't know. I didn't 11 think of that one. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask this 13 question. Rusty, your -- your concern is the legal end of 14 it, of her -- her sentencing or -- 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, issuing arrest 16 warrants, death certificates, you know, autopsy -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And coming back later 18 with a problem, and she didn't have the authority to do that 19 and that kind of thing? 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Correct. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is it -- 22 MS. PIEPER: I think that's correct; I think 23 they're supposed to live in the precinct. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Commissioner Letz, I'm 25 talking to you. Is it -- is it your intentions that she do 10-12-04 108 1 all of those kinds of things? Or is she just going to set 2 bonds in the jail, or -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My intent would be 4 everything. And I hadn't -- and the reason is that -- one 5 of the reasons is on the weekend, you know, they're on call. 6 They pretty -- they obviously have to do pretty much all 7 those functions for that weekend period. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't know, on a 10 temporary basis. I just don't know the answer on temporary. 11 Obviously, on a full-time basis, it does, and I don't -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you think we could 13 get an answer from the County Attorney? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: County Attorney's -- 15 Assistant County Attorney is sitting right there. 16 MS. FISHER: I'd have to research it, but I 17 don't know the answer right now. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're going to be here 19 at 2:00. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why don't we pass on 21 that? Because, I mean, if we can't -- we certainly don't 22 want to do something that's going to not hold up in court or 23 cause a problem down the road. So, if we could check on 24 that and -- 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Come back at 1:30? 10-12-04 109 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- come back at 1:30 with 2 an answer -- probably a call to the Secretary of State can 3 probably clear it up real quick. 4 MS. FISHER: All right. I can do that. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So, the -- we're not 6 ready to take action on the motion that's been offered? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not at this time. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Because the other 9 items we have relate to other items to come in at 1:30 -- 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why can't we do 1.19? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Well -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What about 12? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: That's executive session. 14 We've already done 12, I think. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, we haven't. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I was thinking we 17 could go into executive session on Item 12, recess that 18 executive session, and at least get that item probably taken 19 care of before lunch. Or we can go to lunch now. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Well, what I was going 21 to do was go ahead and go down and handle our housekeeping 22 items and get those out of the way. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: And then that will put us back 25 here at about 1:30. So, we'll go down to the approval 10-12-04 110 1 agenda, and first item is payment of the bills. Anybody 2 have any questions? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I have one 4 simple question, I'm sure, but I -- I need an answer to it. 5 And it's under -- on Page 1, 401, Commissioners Court, that 6 middle -- the middle item, Texas Association of School 7 Boards. Have we -- have we joined with them? I mean, I may 8 have slept through that part of it. Did we join with them 9 in some sort of co-op purchasing? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: That's my understanding. 11 Madam Treasurer, do you have any info on that? 12 MS. NEMEC: I don't, I'm sorry. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: The Auditor's rep is here. Do 14 we purchase through the Texas Association of School Boards? 15 MS. WILLIAMS: Buy board? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Their co-op purchasing. 17 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir, we do. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: And we're required to pay an 19 annual fee of $200 in order to participate in that? 20 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir, we are. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That was my only 22 question. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a question on 24 Page 9 and 10, under 660, County-Sponsored Activity. Bill 25 Smallwood, $529 for sound system? 10-12-04 111 1 MS. WILLIAMS: That's part of the Historical 2 Commission expense for the Union Church. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. On the next 4 page -- 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Maybe you could 6 borrow it for the Ag Barn, Bill. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what I was 8 hoping. On the next page, we have sound system -- Sound 9 Distributors, Inc., and that is a -- there are costs 10 associated with, looks like, the purchase of an amplifier. 11 My question is, is that part of the renovation of the sound 12 system for the Ag Barn, or is that separate and distinctly 13 apart? 14 MS. WILLIAMS: I can't really answer that, 15 'cause I'm not sure. I don't think it's part of the 16 renovation, though. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, we'd set aside 18 in the budget something close to $8,000 for a new sound 19 system. 20 MS. WILLIAMS: Well, was that in last year's 21 budget? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Rehab -- pardon? 23 MS. WILLIAMS: Was that last year's budget? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, in the ensuing. 25 MS. WILLIAMS: This is an encumbrance. This 10-12-04 112 1 is coming out of last year's budget money. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: So it wouldn't relate to that. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So it wouldn't relate 4 to that. 5 MS. WILLIAMS: No, sir. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess your concern 7 is -- or maybe your concern is spending $800 on something 8 we're getting ready to redo? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. Or if this is 10 part of the rehab, not spending the $800 again. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a good 12 question. That last little sentence you had there, that was 13 a good one. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And $800 is not 15 sufficient to cure what's wrong with that system. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, it's not. It 17 needs more than an amplifier. So, I guess that's the little 18 extra -- 19 JUDGE TINLEY: That servicing work has 20 already been performed, has it not, Ms. Williams? 21 MS. WILLIAMS: I believe so. Ms. Nemec is 22 going to pull the invoice so we can look at it, and I might 23 be able to give you a little bit better answer. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Of course, amplifier 10-12-04 113 1 could mean a number of things. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, it's usually 3 the big amp with knobs on it; you hook the mics and stuff 4 into it, booming your voice, making your voice sound above 5 the crowd. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Electronic 7 voice raiser. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And the answer is? 9 MS. WILLIAMS: And the answer is... 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: For an amplifier. 11 MS. WILLIAMS: The answer is, I'm not real 12 sure. (Laughter.) I'll be honest with you, I'm not real 13 sure right now. I notice that there's an e-mail attached to 14 this. It says that they're working on the order. Could you 15 send Mr. Holekamp the invoice for the amplifier? It was an 16 add -- alternate they want to pay from this year's funds, 17 and the remainder when we complete the install next month. 18 So, this is evidently something that was -- 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's associated with 20 the rehab. Sounds like it's associated with the rehab. 21 MS. WILLIAMS: But it was started prior to 22 October 1st. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. All right, 24 that's fine. That's fine, thank you. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Glad to see that's 10-12-04 114 1 underway. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval -- move 3 approval of the proposed -- easy for you to say. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you approving? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion and second for payment 8 of the bills. Any further question or discussion? All in 9 favor, signify by raising your right hand. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Next 14 item is budget amendments. 15 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. We have two. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Budget Amendment Number 1, 17 County Law Library. 18 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. This is for 19 invoices that were prior to October 1st. We didn't get them 20 in in time to pay them in September, so we're encumbering 21 them back into last year's budget. The only problem is, we 22 don't have enough money in that particular line item, so we 23 have to do a budget amendment first and take it out of fund 24 surplus so that we can tie these back to last budget year. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Fund 18 surplus is? 10-12-04 115 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Library. 2 MS. WILLIAMS: It's Law Library, yes, sir. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 6 approval of Budget Amendment Request Number 1. Any question 7 or discussion? All in favor, signify by raising your right 8 hand. 9 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 13 Budget Amendment Request 2. 14 MS. WILLIAMS: This was evidently an 15 oversight. I'm not real sure, but we were requested to 16 reallocate $2,000 out of the County-Sponsored line item for 17 CASA. I believe they only requested $3,000. We budgeted 18 five. Big Brothers/Big Sisters did request funding. For 19 some reason, it didn't get put in there, so we're moving 20 $2,000 from CASA down to Big Brothers/Big Sisters. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I thought we 22 discontinued the funding to Big Brothers and Big Sisters. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We did last year. 24 Not the current, but last year we did. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We approved to put it 10-12-04 116 1 back in? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't recall a 3 discussion to put it back in. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No. I'm pretty sure 5 that Big Brothers/Big Sisters wasn't in there for funding. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It was taken out last 7 year, is your recollection? 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Year before last, I 9 think. 10 MS. WILLIAMS: I was under the impression 11 that year before last, they failed to even request funds. 12 That's why it wasn't funded. But this year they did request 13 funds. 14 MS. MITCHELL: Yes. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And we approved it? I 16 mean, a lot of people request things, but us approving them 17 is another -- is another issue. I just don't recall it, I'm 18 sorry. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We didn't discuss 20 inclusion. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It wasn't in our 22 budget. 23 MS. MITCHELL: Yes, it was. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It was? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Don't blink around the 10-12-04 117 1 budget. 2 MS. WILLIAMS: Don't breathe. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Take it back. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And CASA is 5 indicating they want -- they don't want the $5,000 that was 6 approved for them? 7 MS. WILLIAMS: Their letter only requested 8 $3,000. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Gets stranger and 10 stranger. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I want it to be noted 12 that at 9 minutes till 12:00 on the 12th day of October in 13 2004, an organization requested less funding. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We knew they requested 15 it. We don't know whether we approved it. 16 MS. MITCHELL: That I don't know. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: I think the assumption was 18 made that there was just an error made when there was an 19 over-allocation made to CASA. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's put it in the 21 proper place. I mean, let's don't give them more than they 22 really want, CASA. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They get three. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If they want three, 25 we'll give them three. 10-12-04 118 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Then there's two left 2 over to put somewhere else. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: In the general fund. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm there. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or you take the two and 7 split it up between Little League and -- and Y.M.C.A. and -- 8 I'll be quiet. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I'll just be 10 honest with you; I cannot remember us approving funds to go 11 into Big Brothers and -- do you? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't have any specific 13 recollection of anything with respect to Big Brothers/Big 14 Sisters. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I was under the 16 assumption that us funding Big Brothers was over two years 17 ago. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Commissioner, my 19 recollection is that there continues -- for the last two 20 years, there continues to be a line item in there with zero 21 dollars in it. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That more than two 24 years ago, we decided not to fund that any more. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's correct. 10-12-04 119 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That whole page, 2 basically, if there is not a pretty direct -- or maybe a 3 pretty indirect dollar line to a County function, we don't 4 fund under that County-Sponsored. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And that was sort of 6 the sense of the discussion when they were removed two times 7 ago -- or two years ago. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're not really a -- I 9 mean, the rest of them are utilized by some of the judicial 10 branch or law enforcement branch of the County, and Big 11 Brothers did not meet that. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Does it require a 13 motion to set -- set the fee for CASA at this time? I'll 14 move that CASA's -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think you just -- 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- budget actually be 17 changed from $5,000 to $3,000. That's per their request. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think we need -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What's in the budget 20 for CASA? 21 MS. WILLIAMS: Right now, five. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Shows five. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, it says five? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why don't we just fund 25 the request for three, and we leave $2,000 in the budget? 10-12-04 120 1 It will go back in the general fund. Or we can take it when 2 we have another budget amendment at some point. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Whatever. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Do I hear a motion with 5 respect to Budget Amendment Request Number 2? If not, we'll 6 move on. Any late bills? 7 MS. WILLIAMS: No, sir, that's it. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I have before me the 9 transcripts of the meetings as follows: Emergency Session, 10 Friday, September 3, 2004; Regular Session, Monday, 11 September 13, 2004; Special Meeting, Tuesday, September 21, 12 2004; Special Session, Monday September 27th, 2004; Special 13 Session, Thursday, September 30th, 2004; Emergency Session, 14 Thursday, September 30th, 2004. Do I hear a motion that 15 those -- 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Excuse me, Judge. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: -- transcripts be approved as 18 presented? 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move to approve as 20 presented. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 23 approval of the transcripts as presented. Any question or 24 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 25 your right hand. 10-12-04 121 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I've been presented with 5 monthly reports from the County Clerk, noted General and 6 Trust; Sheriff; Justice of the Peace, Precinct 3; Justice of 7 the Peace, Precinct 2; and District Clerk. Do I hear a 8 motion that those reports be approved as presented? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved -- second. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that 12 we -- for the approval of the indicated monthly reports as 13 presented. Any question or discussion? All in favor of the 14 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Do we 19 have any reports at this time from any of the Commissioners 20 or elected officials? Department heads? We will stand in 21 recess until 1:30 this afternoon. 22 (Recess taken from 11:56 a.m. to 1:30 p.m.) 23 - - - - - - - - - - 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let me call to order -- 25 back to order the Commissioners Court meeting scheduled for 10-12-04 122 1 this time and date. We were in recess till 1:30; it's just 2 a bit past that now. The remaining items that -- I have a 3 timed item for 1:30, which is an executive session item. 4 So, at this time, we will go into executive or closed 5 session. 6 (The open session was closed at 1:32 p.m., and an Executive Session was held, the 7 transcript of which is contained in a separate document.) 8 - - - - - - - - - - 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, we're back in open 10 session as of 3:47. Let's go back to Item 12, consider and 11 discuss prepayment of resident fees under residential 12 services contract of Kerr County Juvenile Detention Facility 13 for current or future Kerr County residents. My purpose in 14 putting that item on the agenda was to characterize payments 15 that the court -- that the County makes towards the 16 Detention Facility, that we characterize those payments as 17 prepayments for residential services provided to Kerr County 18 for Kerr County residents under our existing residential 19 services contract for either residents that are presently 20 there, or those that may be placed there and be housed there 21 up through the end of -- October 31st, and to the extent 22 there's any of -- any prepaid funds available thereafter, 23 if -- if the facility is kept open. My point being, if 24 we're going to be -- if we're going to be covering any 25 operational shortfalls, that it at least should be for costs 10-12-04 123 1 that we would have to pay anyway for our own residents. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How do we do that? 3 On the basis of your decision to send a juvenile to the 4 detention center for "X" number of days, and we pay for "X" 5 number of days up front, or how's that work? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, for example, the -- the 7 Auditor has furnished us with a -- with a projection of -- 8 of what the cash flow is going to be and the operational 9 expenses, and it shows an operational shortfall through the 10 end of -- the end of October. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Let us suppose the Court were 13 to authorize the payment of that amount -- up to that amount 14 as prepaid residential services. Our contract provides that 15 we pay a daily rate, and whatever rate that is would just 16 accrue against that amount. We would end up having to pay 17 that anyway for each day, as provided in the contract, that 18 the child's in the detention facility. I'm merely wanting 19 to -- to provide a method whereby we can characterize what 20 our funds are being expended for, and as long as they're 21 spent for what we're required to spend them for anyway. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess -- I'm not sure I 23 totally understand how the mechanism works, but I don't have 24 a problem with prepaying what we know we're going to spend 25 during the month of October. But, considering the 10-12-04 124 1 uncertainty after the end of October, I don't want to pay 2 any November. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: No, no. You can say a certain 4 amount, such as the operational deficiency that's listed 5 there on -- on the projection. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I mean -- 7 JUDGE TINLEY: $3,800, $4,000 that's prepaid. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's all we're 9 talking about now? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, you plug in the figure, 11 but you would specify a figure. It will not be open-ended. 12 And it would be specifically prepaid residential services to 13 be provided during the month of October of 2004, or if there 14 are excess funds beyond if they remain at that facility 15 after that point in time. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And the reason for 17 this is to put some money in their bank account right now? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Well -- 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: October's one-third 20 over. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Not necessarily. It would -- 22 rather than Kerr County paying those funds anyway, we are at 23 least paying them for something that we're obligated to pay. 24 And that's -- 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm getting there. 10-12-04 125 1 Why are we doing that? Because they have a cash flow 2 shortfall now, and they don't want to wait until they bill 3 us and we pay it? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: No. It's in order that the 5 funds that we obligate -- that are projected to be 6 deficient, that they go into our residential services. I 7 just want to limit our liability to the maximum possible. 8 Now, it may well be -- and the question comes to mind, 9 certainly, well, if there's -- if there's a deficiency on 10 the other end, aren't we really on the hook for it? I don't 11 know that for certain, but I know we're on the hook for our 12 residential services under the contract for our kids. 13 That's my only reason. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why is it we don't 15 just wait and pay it when it comes due? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: We could. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the way we do 18 it now, right? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We do it like anybody 21 else does. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There has to be a 24 reason that you're asking to do this. You know, Number 4 is 25 trying to ask that question. Now, I don't know the answer 10-12-04 126 1 yet. What is the reason for doing something like this? Why 2 don't we just wait and pay it like we've done for years? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm not sure if the cash 4 flow's going to be there through the end of the month. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Cash flow problem. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, if they need "X" 8 thousand dollars -- $5,000, and we know we're going to incur 9 that much expense in October, I don't mind paying it now, if 10 that's what we have to do. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm not sure exactly what the 12 amount will be. All I'm going off of is the estimate of -- 13 of the Auditor on -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Wouldn't we be better 15 served going off the estimate of how many Kerr County 16 juveniles are out there and what we're going to be paying on 17 a per-diem basis, and try to estimate that rather than try 18 to estimate the shortage? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: That's certainly another way 20 to approach it. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That seems to me to 22 make -- I mean -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Now, the thing we need to also 24 understand is, this would only relate to what we call 25 preadjudicated residents. It cannot be postadjudicated, 10-12-04 127 1 because the postadjudicated are basically handled through 2 State funds. I don't -- how many preadjudicated Kerr County 3 do we have now? 4 MR. STANTON: Seven, Your Honor. 5 MR. HARRIS: Seven. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Seven? 7 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How long will we have 9 seven? I mean, how long until they get -- become 10 postadjudicated? 11 MR. STANTON: I couldn't answer that for you, 12 sir. They're upstairs having court right now, and I 13 couldn't tell you how many the judge is going to detain and 14 how many he's going to release. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How many do we have on 16 the average day? I mean, is there such a thing? Do we 17 usually have about five to seven? 18 MR. STANTON: We have four to five a day, 19 yes, sir. Four or five a day on the preadjudicated phase, 20 so we could calculate it. We're on the order -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: $320 to $400 a day. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, instead of 23 going through all that, or -- well, so many unknowns, if the 24 Auditor's estimating a shortfall of $3,827, why don't we 25 just say okay, we'll meet the shortfall of $3,827, and be 10-12-04 128 1 done with it? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: That's another solution. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the amount to be 4 applied against our account over there. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. If there's 6 anything left, we get it back. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Make a motion. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I move it. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I second that 10 motion. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Any 12 further question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, 13 signify by raising your right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there a motion to be 18 offered in connection with any matters covered in executive 19 session? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: First, let me make a 23 comment on Item 17, which is the appointment of Betty 24 Burney, just as information. I see Ms. Burney in the 25 audience. It is, I guess, the opinion of the County 10-12-04 129 1 Attorney, through the Secretary of State's office, that 2 we -- there's no provision to appoint a temporary J.P., so 3 whoever we appoint will be the J.P., and therefore that item 4 will -- we won't take any action on that. We can't do it. 5 Item 19, I'll make a motion that we appoint Claudio Castillo 6 to fill the unexpired term for J.P., Precinct Number 3. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 9 appointment of Claudio Castillo for the unexpired term of 10 J.P., Precinct 3. Any question or discussion? All in favor 11 of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 16 MS. NEMEC: Could I have an effective date on 17 that, please? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: As soon as he's eligible. 19 MS. NEMEC: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't know how long to 21 get bond and all that. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything further to be offered 23 in connection with matters discussed in executive session? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Don't know where to go on 25 that one. 10-12-04 130 1 MS. PIEPER: Jonathan, how are you spelling 2 that first name? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Claudio is C-l-a-u-d-i-o. 4 And in -- in absence of any decision on -- relating to the 5 Juvenile Detention Facility, on the 31st of this month, the 6 trustee will take over ownership and possession, correct? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think we did talk 8 about asking Ms. Harris and the Sheriff to develop alternate 9 strategies and give them to us as quickly as possible. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mr. Spurgeon, about how 11 much time will it take the Bank of New York to react to a 12 decision of either no extension to the moratorium or an 13 extension to the moratorium? 14 MR. SPURGEON: If -- if there's -- if there's 15 a decision to essentially not extend the October 31st time 16 period, I think you would see that Bank of New York would 17 probably react pretty quickly to go through sort of a legal 18 process to seek a T.R.O. that would limit their liability in 19 terms of time that they would take possession of the 20 facility. And I think they would, at that point, start very 21 quickly the process of having the juveniles be moved and 22 those things so that the facility is completely closed by 23 October 31st. I think that would probably happen -- 24 wouldn't surprise me if you start seeing some things by the 25 end of the week, that they would start doing that. 10-12-04 131 1 They made one comment to me, they think it 2 will take a couple weeks to move all those juveniles. I 3 haven't -- I couldn't even begin to comment if that's 4 accurate or not, but that's their thinking, that they need 5 to have enough advance notice so that they can be in a 6 position to do what they feel needs to be done in order so 7 that once the lease agreement has terminated, there are no 8 juveniles at the facility at the time. If there's a 9 decision on the part of the -- of the Commissioners to 10 extend that time period somewhat, I think they would also 11 react very quickly in terms of putting together some sort of 12 a moratorium agreement or modification agreement, whatever 13 you want to call this, to have available for the 14 Commissioners Court to adopt within, you know, the next week 15 or so. I think if they -- but if they had an action by the 16 Court today that said we're willing to go forward in some 17 sort of a temporary basis, that would allow them -- I think 18 stop the T.R.O. proceedings, frankly, and to move into 19 drafting some sort of an agreement and have it ready for you 20 all to review and approve. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, in our 22 discussions, we did indicate sort of a desire for you to 23 explore beyond October 31st from -- with certain provisos 24 having to do with legal -- legal fees. 25 MR. SPURGEON: Right. 10-12-04 132 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And if they're 2 unwilling to do that, then they're unwilling to do it. 3 MR. SPURGEON: I think I'll probably get a 4 pretty quick answer out of -- well, and the attorney that's 5 working on this would have to, certainly, talk to the folks 6 at the Bank of New York, but I think if -- if you want me to 7 go back and -- and suggest another date to them, a 8 December 31st date or something to that effect, and -- and 9 cover the issue regarding legal fees and those type of 10 things, I think we'd have a -- an answer back from them 11 within the next couple days in terms of what they'd be 12 willing to -- would they be willing to accept it on those 13 terms. I think they'd respond very quickly. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess kind of what I'm 15 hearing, and based on discussions, is that my preference 16 would be no action today. Give Ms. Harris and the Sheriff 17 till the end of the week to come up with some -- some 18 numbers to really look at -- at the operational options for 19 that facility, either as an adult facility or juvenile 20 facility. Have a special meeting Monday, and let the Bank 21 of New York know definitively on Monday whether or not we're 22 going to extend a moratorium or not. Though I think, in 23 your communication, if they ask -- I think there's a very 24 high likelihood we will not. That's just kind of what I 25 am -- my personal feeling. I don't know; we didn't take a 10-12-04 133 1 vote on it, obviously, yet, but just kind of the -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I think, certainly, 3 Mr. Spurgeon could engage Bank of New York's counsel on the 4 other issue that was attached to the moratorium. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mm-hmm. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That is if we're 7 willing to extend till, say, December 31? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Trying to get the 10 -- talk to Bank of New York a little bit about that. We can 11 probably receive that by e-mail; you don't have to make a 12 trip up here, I mean. 13 MR. SPURGEON: Right. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Seems to me that that 15 may be the best route, because it gives -- it just gives 16 more time for everyone to dot their I's and cross their T's, 17 have a little more reality in where everybody is in the 18 game. And -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, just go ahead and 20 extend the date today? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I'd like to, but 22 we don't know -- yeah. Yeah, that would be fine with me. 23 Sure. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We don't know what 25 that's going to cost us. 10-12-04 134 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We don't know about 2 this attorney fee thing that I'm not willing to vote to pay 3 for. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: You can submit it conditioned 5 upon their agreement that that not be attached to it. But 6 it merely be attached -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's exactly -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Continue the operational, but 9 that's it. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can put a limit of 11 $50,000 on the operational -- 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't see that working. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- with them. 14 MR. SPURGEON: No, Judge, I don't either. 15 Actually, they'd have a tough time probably agreeing to 16 that, 'cause they -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You could limit the 18 attorney fees, though. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 20 MR. SPURGEON: Well, I think there's -- that 21 may be a separate issue in terms of, I mean -- 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Which I am zero on. 23 I'm hung on zero. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm good with that. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, do you want to instruct 10-12-04 135 1 Mr. Spurgeon to make -- make that proposal to the trustee? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: To extend to 3 December 31, and ask Mr. -- ask him to visit with the New 4 York folks and see if that's feasible on their end? 5 MR. SPURGEON: I'll be glad to do that. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then we can be 7 back in here on Monday to get that answer, and -- and -- or 8 are we making that decision right this moment? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, if it's a firm offer you 10 want him to extend -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Then -- 12 JUDGE TINLEY: -- you can -- you can vote to 13 -- you can make a motion and we can vote to go forward on 14 that basis, to extend a moratorium till December 31. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Question. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: If we go that route, 17 we're essentially agreeing that Kerr County is going to 18 underwrite the costs of the facility, to the tune -- for the 19 balance of the year, to the tune of about $50,000. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's kind of an 23 estimate we've been given. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Whatever the operational costs 25 are, that -- 10-12-04 136 1 MR. HENDERSON: I would suggest that you 2 reconfirm that estimate with Ms. Harris. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that's what 4 I'd like to do. I don't want her to rush to judgment on it, 5 so I'm not suggesting that -- both she and the Sheriff need 6 to do some number-crunching. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm not hung up on 8 the $50,000. I just -- I just want to remind myself again 9 that we are -- if we vote that way, we are voting to spend 10 unbudgeted funds that are precious. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm, very much so. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, ma'am? 13 MR. HARRIS: I need a little clarification 14 about what is this proposal that you want the Sheriff and I 15 to come up with? This is the first I've heard about it. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the -- the -- what you 17 project insofar as your census and the operational costs, 18 not just necessarily through the end of the year. Obviously 19 that portion, but then on an ongoing basis, what you feel 20 like you can do out there at that facility. Some real, hard 21 number-crunching. 22 MR. HARRIS: So, y'all's thinking is that one 23 building would be for the Sheriff and the other building 24 would be for us? Is that what your -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have no 10-12-04 137 1 preconceived -- we have no idea. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We have no idea. You 3 have to come back and tell us, you and the Sheriff. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: As to -- basically, 5 thinking out of the box as much as you can as to what will 6 make that facility pay for itself. That's -- you know, is 7 there any way that using it as a juvenile facility or an 8 adult facility, that that facility can cover operating 9 expenses and debt service? I mean, is there any way to do 10 it? If there's no way to do it, that's the answer; it can't 11 be done. If there is something that -- and, granted, 12 there's -- its not a guarantee. There's risk involved. I 13 mean, you're making assumptions about attendance and 14 everything else. 15 MR. HARRIS: Do you want me to press ahead 16 about getting that one full-time counselor that I'm required 17 to have with the substance abuse license? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 19 MS. HARRIS: Am I supposed to do that? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: This is a danged if you do, 21 danged if you don't deal. Her ability to go forward on that 22 substance abuse program requires her to have that in place. 23 Is there any way you can do that on a contract basis, or do 24 you know? 25 MR. HARRIS: It has to be full-time. The new 10-12-04 138 1 standards that went into effect September 1 says that 2 person's got to be full-time. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 4 MR. HARRIS: And, by the way, everything is 5 completed. Everything has been approved. I had to write a 6 request for a waiver for one of their standards regarding 7 strip searches. It's been approved on the low level; it's 8 gone up to the next level. I should hear something today or 9 tomorrow. But everything else -- the application, policy 10 and procedures, everything's been approved for the license. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And that would add a 12 maximum of how many detainees? How many would you expect if 13 you were full? 14 MS. HARRIS: I licensed for 18 beds, 12 boys 15 and 6 girls. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, Ms. Harris, what 17 I'm looking at is to make projections best you can. If we 18 assume -- you know, if we authorize that person, then how 19 many persons are -- you know, what's the additional increase 20 in expenses? What's the additional increase in revenue? 21 And just try to figure out the best realistic, you know, 22 guess, which is an educated guess on your part as to what 23 that facility's financial situation is. And I'd look at it 24 as the whole facility as a juvenile facility, half juvenile/ 25 half adult, and then -- which, of course, the Sheriff would 10-12-04 139 1 have to look at the adult side of it. Or 100 percent adult, 2 which the Sheriff would have to do that part. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think it's fair to 4 tell Ms. Harris why we're asking for that, and I think we've 5 not done that. We're trying to explore an option as to 6 whether or not it makes any sense for us to consider 7 acquiring the facility, Kerr County acquiring it and working 8 with our bond people in that -- in that connection. Now, in 9 order to do that, we need to know, you know, what is the 10 best assessment? Is it -- is it all juveniles? Is it 11 something that's hybrid? What could we expect and how would 12 it happen? I know it's a crunch project, but that -- the 13 whole thing's under the gun right now, so that's what we're 14 asking. 15 MR. HARRIS: Okay. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: And the proposal as to the 17 moratorium to try and give us a little bit more time than 18 what we've got to -- to really evaluate this situation and 19 really look at our options. 20 MR. HARRIS: And, too, and I need -- 'cause I 21 get referrals for long-term postadjudication kids. Do I 22 take them or do I not? 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We're struggling to 24 find a way to keep that facility open, and we don't have 25 very good options. 10-12-04 140 1 MS. HARRIS: And if I tell them no -- if I 2 ever tell a county, "Don't send me any kids because I'm not 3 sure what's going to happen," that will not be good. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure, I understand 6 that. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: This is a dilemma. 8 It's my best guess that the numbers won't justify the County 9 keeping that facility open. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd still like to 11 extend the moratorium through December 31. And this throws 12 a whole new light on it, but I don't know that that's 13 something that this Board of Directors right here should be 14 doing. We're just trying to, you know, keep the thing open, 15 and how Mrs. Harris deals with all those internal things, I 16 don't have any idea. But I don't think it's -- that kind of 17 thing is up to us. I think we need to take our step as 18 policymakers, and do all we can reasonably, which to me 19 would be December 31. And I -- I think -- I think if we 20 come back and we can't cut a deal of some sort with the New 21 York Bank, I can't imagine the doors staying open another 22 day. I just -- I can't see how it would happen. I don't 23 see how that would work, unless we do this again, and we 24 throw in taxpayers' -- I mean, if we start throwing mega 25 taxpayer money at this thing, then we're going to have to 10-12-04 141 1 sit down and really ask some tough questions and get some 2 tough answers for the taxpayers to understand this, or I 3 won't -- I won't participate in it from that point on. I'll 4 tell you that much. That's my motion. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that a motion? I 6 was just going to get ready to ask that. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: As close as I can come 8 right now. Extend the moratorium till December 31. Now, 9 how you put the language about the lawyers fees and -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: You just don't include that. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's fine. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: With Kerr County being 13 responsible for the operational costs incurred through that 14 period, and -- and that's it. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Tom, come back up. I 16 have a question. 17 MR. SPURGEON: Yes, sir? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If we were to -- if 19 we were to vote to extend the moratorium or whatever you 20 call it until December 31st, if the answers that we're 21 asking our good folks to come back and give us are really 22 dire, are we obligated to stay through December 31st? Or 23 can we do something less than that? 24 MR. SPURGEON: I think, actually, part of 25 it's going to depend on the wording of the agreement. I 10-12-04 142 1 mean, I think your -- the agreement that -- and it's 2 probably one of those negotiating points, to be honest with 3 you, Commissioner. I think when they -- the bank will come 4 back with an agreement to essentially say, "We're going to 5 extend this till December 31st," everything's going to stay 6 the same. But I think you can put a provision that gives 7 you the option to give them, let's say, a 30-day notice. 8 They're going to want some kind of a notice so that it 9 doesn't get thrown back in their lap with two days or 10 something like that. But, I mean, I think you might be able 11 to put something in the agreement saying, "We're willing to 12 commit to December 31st. If we find out beforehand that the 13 numbers just aren't going to work, we reserve the right to 14 -- to accelerate it, after giving you some reasonable 15 notice." 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I move to go along on 17 that basis. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Fifteen -- maybe 15 days 19 notice. Would that be enough? Or 20? 20 MR. SPURGEON: It's tough for me to negotiate 21 -- or to figure out what they might want. I think you could 22 certainly propose to them 15 days or something to that 23 effect. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Who actually writes 25 the agreement? 10-12-04 143 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, they'll submit one, 2 and -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Bank of New York. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 6 MR. SPURGEON: Right. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: And then we'll review it on 8 this end, proposing changes, modifications, additions. 9 MR. SPURGEON: And I'm assuming, from -- from 10 discussions I'm hearing, that in terms of the legal fees 11 issue, that's -- that's a -- that's a non-starter. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a deal breaker. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a deal 14 breaker. 15 MR. SPURGEON: Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would second the 17 Commissioner's motion. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: What was your motion, Buster? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Extend the moratorium 20 till December 31. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: With the cancellation 22 clause. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: With a -- with a right to 24 cancel prior without -- with reasonable notice, to be 25 negotiated. 10-12-04 144 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. That was your motion? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: You seconded? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 7 discussion? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have a question, and 9 it's real quick. What is the -- it appears to me that 10 something's going to come back. There's going to have to be 11 some agreements worked out, maybe some details worked out. 12 Would it not be wise to appoint -- the Court to appoint a 13 committee that has authority to make those decisions without 14 having to call emergency meetings? Because if they come 15 back with some kind of account, nobody wants to pay $1,000 16 of legal fees, that's going to mean a special meeting. Or 17 are we just going to have a special meeting? 18 MR. SPURGEON: What I might even suggest, 19 maybe your motion today is -- is to -- and maybe this is 20 going backwards, Commissioner Letz. Maybe I'm speaking too 21 soon, but maybe your motion is to authorize me and the Judge 22 or someone to talk with the Bank of New York, tell them what 23 the -- what the commitment of the Court has been, subject to 24 acceptable language in an agreement. I, frankly, think an 25 agreement will probably have to come back to the Court -- 10-12-04 145 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 2 MR. SPURGEON: -- for formal authorization, 3 but you're at least giving your permission for 4 representatives of the County to go to them, express the 5 intent of the Commissioners Court, asking them to submit an 6 agreement for your approval. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I like that. I like 8 that scenario. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: David, do you want in 11 on the action? Do you feel like -- 12 MR. MOTLEY: I don't have anything to add to 13 it; I can say that. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You don't feel like 15 that you need to be there, as the County Attorney? You feel 16 like that -- 17 MR. MOTLEY: You're talking about as far as 18 being involved in the discussions between the Commissioners 19 Court and this Bank of New York? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 21 MR. MOTLEY: Well, I'd be more than happy 22 to -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you think there's a 24 need, or do you think this attorney here is enough to -- 25 MR. SPURGEON: I certainly wouldn't mind him 10-12-04 146 1 taking a look at the agreement, or whatever process he'd 2 like to be involved in, absolutely. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 4 MR. MOTLEY: Yeah. Believe me, this is a 5 little bit outside the normal realm of, you know, what we do 6 over here, but I'll be happy to contribute any way I can. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, I'm ready to vote. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm very reluctantly 9 going to vote for it. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Call for -- 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Seems like buying an 12 option. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 14 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 15 your right hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. I 20 think that's everything we had on today's agenda, gentlemen. 21 Unless there's something -- 22 MR. SPURGEON: We're going to go. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Don't drive too fast. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Unless I missed 25 something, I think that covers everything for today. 10-12-04 147 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Far as I know. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, we will stand adjourned. 3 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 4:16 p.m.) 4 - - - - - - - - - - 5 6 7 STATE OF TEXAS | 8 COUNTY OF KERR | 9 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 10 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 11 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 12 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 13 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 18th day of October, 14 2004. 15 16 17 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 18 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 19 Certified Shorthand Reporter 20 21 22 23 24 25 10-12-04