1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Special Session 10 Monday, November 22, 2004 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 DAVE NICHOLSON, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X November 22, 2004 2 PAGE --- Commissioners' Comments 3 3 1.1 Approval of Resolution in support of Kerr County 4 being part of the Hill Country Trail Region 6 1.2 Consider plan design for employee health benefits 5 program, determine which proposals may be acceptable for further negotiations 11 6 1.3 Blanket court order to pay election workers for their services for future elections 20 7 1.4 Request Court approval to rehire employee at a salary higher than entry level 22 8 1.5 Discuss Reverse 911 emergency communications system 24 1.6 Final Plat of Eagle Ridge Subdivision, Pct. 4 41 9 1.7 Preliminary Plat of Big Sky Ranch, Pct. 4 44 1.8 Consider variances for revision of plat for Lots 10 6 & 7 and part of Lots 4 & 5 of Hartshorn Country; abandon unimproved county easement, set public 11 hearing 53 1.9 Consider awarding bids for Exhibit Center roof and 12 HVAC 55 1.10 Approve lease of four new Sheriff's patrol units, 13 authorize County Judge to sign same, and approve first year's lease payments as budgeted 71 14 1.11 Consider salary supplement for Family and Consumer Science Agent position at Extension Office 73 15 1.12 Approve form contracts with County-sponsored entities, authorize County Judge to sign same 78 16 1.13 Approve form contracts with volunteer fire departmetns, authorize County Judge to sign same 80 17 1.14 Discuss financial status and projections at Juvenile Detention Facility, consider any budget 18 amendments 82 1.15 Consider extension of Temporary Lease & Operating 19 Agreement at Juvenile Detention Facility 82 1.16 Consider and discuss status of acquisition of 20 Juvenile Detention Facility (Executive Session) 82 21 3.1 Action taken on Executive Session matters 109 22 4.1 Pay Bills 112 4.2 Budget Amendments 129 23 4.3 Late Bills 131 4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 132 24 --- Adjourned 134 25 3 1 On Monday, November 22, 2004, at 9:00 a.m., a special 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in the 3 Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville, 4 Texas, and the following proceedings were had in open court: 5 P R O C E E D I N G S 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, ladies and 7 gentlemen. Let me call to order the meeting of the Kerr 8 County Commissioners Court scheduled for this date and time, 9 Monday, November the 22nd, at 9 a.m. It's that time now. 10 Commissioner 3, I believe it's your honors this morning. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Please stand and join me 12 in a moment of prayer. 13 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. At this time, if 15 there's any member of the audience or the public that wishes 16 to address the Court on any item or matter that is not a 17 listed agenda item, you're free to come forward at this 18 time. If it's your desire to address the Court on a listed 19 agenda item, we would ask that you wait until that time to 20 do so, and we'd further ask that you fill out a 21 participation form. There are forms at the back of the room 22 that you can fill out. It's not absolutely necessary, but 23 it helps me to keep track of you and make sure that I don't 24 overlook you, so that we would ask that you do that. Is 25 there any member of the public that wishes to talk or speak 11-22-04 4 1 to the Court about any matter that's not listed on the 2 agenda? If so, feel free to come forward at this time. 3 Seeing no one coming forward, I guess not. Commissioner 3, 4 what do you have for us this morning? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Two things. I would like 6 the remind everybody that this weekend is Christmas in 7 Comfort. For those that have never attended, it's quite a 8 unique celebration. It's a night parade, all-day 9 festivities, lots of shops open, vendors. And I don't know 10 how many entries they have, but usually -- in the parade. 11 Usually they have, oh, about 150 or so entries. I think it 12 starts at 7 o'clock usually. We encourage everyone to come 13 down to watch that. And I think the other comment goes a 14 little bit to the weather. I don't know how much rain the 15 western part of the county had, but the eastern part of the 16 county, as Road and Bridge is quite aware, has had another 17 pretty severe flood; washed out a lot of the crossings in 18 Lane Valley, Hermann Sons, Cypress Creek area. Appreciate 19 all their work. And it seems these things always happen at 20 night and on weekends, and we appreciate that crew going out 21 and helping the public during those events. That's it. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner 4? 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We're pretty 24 saturated in west Kerr County. We can't take too much more 25 rain and the river is up a little bit, but there's not any 11-22-04 5 1 flooding been going on. That's all. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner 1? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. The -- we 4 had -- had a Christmas tree lighting at the courthouse last 5 Saturday, and I'm sure the Judge is going to speak to that, 6 but it was a lot of fun. The parade and all was a -- it was 7 fun, and I heard numbers this morning of about 250 people -- 8 or 2,500 -- 2,500 people maybe here at the courthouse at 9 that function, so it was a lot of fun. And I see that high 10 school football in our part of the country is over for the 11 year, and it's kind of a good thing. Now we have to put up 12 with basketball for about a month before we get into the 13 real man's sport of track. So, I just wanted to get you 14 guys ready. Track is on its way, and we'll be talking about 15 that. Thank you. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Commissioner. 17 Commissioner 2? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think kudos go to 19 the Christmas Lighting Corp. for their work. It's a 20 really -- the grounds looked good. I know the public enjoys 21 it, and my thanks and appreciation to them for what they do. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that it? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: As Commissioner Baldwin and 25 Williams said, we had our lighted Christmas parade this last 11-22-04 6 1 Saturday, and it culminated in turning on of the courthouse 2 Christmas lights to signal the beginning of the local 3 holiday season. I want to thank the Christmas Lighting 4 Corporation for all their hard work. I particularly also 5 want to thank our maintenance staff for all of their extra 6 work and hours that they put in, and the hard work they add 7 to this project. Some of you out there that are maybe not 8 in your twilight years that want to participate with those 9 folks, they're issuing a call for new and younger blood, and 10 I would encourage you to join them. It was quite enjoyable 11 to see the number of people that came out for the parade and 12 the -- and the ceremonies here on the courthouse lawn in 13 spite of the weather. As most of you will recall, it was 14 pretty mucky, and -- but I was tickled to death to see that 15 many of our citizens from all walks of life. I think the 16 children drug some of their parents down here because of 17 Santa Claus being here, and that's good. Whatever it takes. 18 But I was just tickled to death to see our citizens using 19 the courthouse and public facilities, and I think everybody 20 had a good time, and I thank all of those who participated 21 in it. Let's get on with the agenda, if we might. First 22 item on the agenda is consider and discuss the approval of a 23 resolution in support of Kerr County being part of the Hill 24 Country Trail Region. Ms. Burditt? 25 MS. BURDITT: Good morning. For the record, 11-22-04 7 1 my name is Sudie Burditt, and address is 2108 Sidney Baker. 2 Today I'm here representing the Texas Historic Commission 3 instead of the Kerrville Convention and Visitors Bureau. 4 I'm chairman of the Heritage Trails Program for the Texas 5 Historic Commission, and I am in need of a resolution in 6 support of reactivating -- and I have some things to pass 7 out to you. This is the original trail map from 1967. And, 8 as you can tell, they're antiques, and I want them back, 9 gentlemen. Governor John Connally, in 1967, established -- 10 asked the Texas Historic Commission to establish trails 11 throughout the state of Texas for the visitors who were 12 coming to Texas for the world's fair, which we know as 13 Hemisfair in San Antonio. The program was done with those 14 maps. The signs that were put up by TexDOT remain today, 15 the Texas Hill Country Trail signs. We -- we lost funding 16 for the maps in early 1980 -- or in the early 1980's, and so 17 the program, as far as the maps, have been dormant during 18 this time. Texas Monthly, in the late '80's, did a program 19 funded by GMC that was an attempt -- they did it one time 20 only, and so we have been without the maps to go with the 21 TexDOT signs all these years. 22 In 1997, the Texas Historic Commission funded 23 -- started funding one a year to reactivate the 10 trails 24 and redo colored maps that would do somewhat the same thing 25 as the early 1967 maps. We are starting the process, and it 11-22-04 8 1 is now time for the Hill Country Trail to do our 2 application. It is due in Austin by 4 p.m. on May 6th. 3 Texas Historic Commission will consider our application in 4 their July Commission meeting. We must have the support of 5 all 19 counties in order to do this project. The Historic 6 Commission has $150,000 to fund the program and to print the 7 maps, and what we need to do on our individual parts is 8 effort. One of the things that's going to happen is all of 9 our historic attractions and cultural attractions must be 10 reinventoried, and so I have a meeting November the 30th 11 that we have put out for the Historical Commission and Hill 12 Country Preservation Society and all of those interested in 13 those type projects to be present at the Union Church at 14 3 p.m. on November the 30th, and I would like in my 15 possession at that time a resolution from the Kerr County 16 Commissioners Court in support of the program. Questions? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question. I have -- I 18 certainly don't object to the current boundary of the map, 19 but is there any way to change the boundary or add areas to 20 it? 21 MS. BURDITT: No. They're -- the Historic 22 Commission is not going to consider -- well, what happens 23 is -- and the biggest one that I've seen in this whole deal 24 is Fort Martin Scott is not on the Forts Trail. I think 25 maybe the Forts Trail is the one going around. Fort Martin 11-22-04 9 1 Scott, because in 1967, it was a -- a pile of rubble. And 2 the Historic Commission is not addressing changing any of 3 the boundaries or the trail. Now, what's happening is, we 4 are able to -- because of internet, the web site will have 5 -- the new attractions will be on the maps, and each county 6 will probably end up with -- we're going to -- we're 7 shooting for 15 to 20 for Kerr County. And what will 8 happen, though, is all the additional ones will be on the 9 web sites. And that's how -- that's how they're expanding 10 the trails. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do the locations in the 12 county need to be on the map, or just in the county? I 13 mean, do they have to be on the roads that are designated, 14 or just somewhere in the county? 15 MS. BURDITT: No, they have to be in the 16 county. They do not have to be in -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is Comfort not on 18 there? Is that what this is all about? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Bandera Pass isn't on 20 there. I mean, it's just -- you know, there's two roads -- 21 a couple roads that are -- 22 MS. BURDITT: Well, Bandera Pass is one of 23 our 15 on the inventory we've started. You know, we'll 24 fine-tune that on -- on the 30th when we're all -- when 25 we're all together. But it's obviously one of the majors, 11-22-04 10 1 as far as our inventory would be. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where's the funding 4 for maps going to come from? 5 MS. BURDITT: Historic Commission. That's 6 why they're only -- that's why they're only doing one a year 7 from '97, is because of the budgeting amounts to do them. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Statewide 9 distribution? 10 MS. BURDITT: Statewide distribution, 500,000 11 printed the first time. And they will -- they are not 12 budgeting to reprint them, but they are setting up a 13 system -- by doing trails and by doing regional committees, 14 they're setting up a system so that in '08 or '09, at 15 whatever point we have to, the second printing will have to 16 come from the regions. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Basic distribution 18 goes through agencies like your Convention and Visitors 19 Bureau? 20 MS. BURDITT: And the TexDOT information 21 centers for the regions. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval of the 23 resolution. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 11-22-04 11 1 approval of the resolution. Any question or discussion? 2 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 3 hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 8 MS. BURDITT: Thank you, gentlemen. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. Appreciate 10 you being here today. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Sudie. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: The next item on the agenda is 13 a timed item at 9:15, and it appears to be very close to 14 that time now. Consider and discuss plan design for 15 employee health benefits program and determination of 16 proposals which may potentially be acceptable for further 17 negotiations between the proposers and the employee health 18 benefits consultant. Mr. Gary Looney, our health benefits 19 consultant, is here with us today. 20 MR. LOONEY: Judge. Morning, Commissioners. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Morning. 22 MR. LOONEY: What I'd like to do today is 23 accomplish two things. One, I think that you have some 24 information that was provided to you in your packets that 25 gives a specimen contract of a health reimbursement 11-22-04 12 1 arrangement. There's also samples of a simplified plan 2 design on several pages that's just identified, "Benefit 3 Schedule." That is not the recommended benefit schedule; 4 that is a working model. That is not what is being 5 recommended for the employees at this time. What we're 6 looking at for the next presentation is a comparison between 7 the benefit plan as to where you are today and the optional 8 benefit plan that we're requesting to be proposed from the 9 different providers that I have identified as the last four 10 best and final offer individual companies we'd like to get 11 information from. So, the next step is to take the current 12 plan design, compare that with the bidders that we're going 13 to offer the best and final offer to, and then also the 14 alternate plan design, which is actually a blending of your 15 Plan A and B with a health reimbursement arrangement, and 16 then retention of another option that will be a lesser 17 benefit at a lower cost option. The best and final offer 18 will be offered to the four organizations or the four 19 identified people in my letter. And if -- what I need today 20 is your approval to move forward with that. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This -- that we're 22 looking at does not represent a proposed new plan? 23 MR. LOONEY: No, sir. No, that is -- that's 24 a specimen. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think you've 11-22-04 13 1 answered my question in your comments, but I was looking for 2 some comparison against the existing plan, and I don't see 3 that here. 4 MR. LOONEY: Comparisons between the 5 existing -- 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I was looking for 7 comparison to what we have before us to our existing plan, 8 but that's coming later? 9 MR. LOONEY: That's coming later, yes, sir. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 11 MR. LOONEY: That's -- that specimen that you 12 see is a working document that we use for comparison 13 purposes. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is it a complete 15 working document? 16 MR. LOONEY: That's the specimen -- the 17 benefit plan specimen. Those are just the specifications of 18 benefits themselves. It's not the entire document, no. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 'Cause one of 20 the things I did not see, Gary, was -- 21 MR. LOONEY: The H.R.A. arrangement is not 22 associated with that. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And I didn't see 24 prescription drugs in there, either. 25 MR. LOONEY: The prescription drugs are -- 11-22-04 14 1 you know, there should -- if they're not in there, they 2 should have been. It's a page that's missing. But that's 3 just what we're using from the working document at this 4 point. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, what you really need 6 today is just authorization to talk to the four companies to 7 see if they can offer what we -- 8 MR. LOONEY: To see if they'll be able to 9 perform the services that we're requesting under the health 10 reimbursement arrangement. They already have bid on the 11 basis for the basic contracts. Now we're trying to take it 12 to the next step. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, now I am 15 confused a little bit by your answer. Is what we're looking 16 at what we're proposing? 17 MR. LOONEY: No, sir, it's not. What that -- 18 I'm not really sure how you got that document, as a matter 19 of fact, because that's a working -- that's a working 20 document. That's from my -- 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I picked up my book 22 and it was in my book. 23 MR. LOONEY: Well, that was -- that's from 24 my -- that's actually from my files. So, you know, I'm -- 25 when I saw it this morning, I figured y'all were going to be 11-22-04 15 1 confused by that. I apologize for that. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I know our 3 administrative assistant is good. I didn't know she was 4 that good, that she could get into your file. 5 MR. LOONEY: I thought she got into my files 6 when I looked at it this morning, and I was worried -- I was 7 a little worried about that, because -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I like this document; it 9 helps explain it. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It does. 11 MR. LOONEY: It's a benefit -- it's a benefit 12 structure that I use to work from to develop the 13 comparisons, is what I use it for. And that's actually my 14 working document. So, I -- 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 16 MR. LOONEY: I apologize for the confusion. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Looney, if I understand 18 what you're seeking today, it's authority from the Court to 19 proceed to final negotiations between the four listed 20 proposers who you believe potentially could be accepted, any 21 one of which could be accepted -- 22 MR. LOONEY: That's correct. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: -- by the Court for their 24 plan, so that you might obtain from them their final and 25 best offer with respect to basically our current plan, as 11-22-04 16 1 slightly modified as you'd indicated, and secondarily, with 2 options for the H.R.A. that you're -- you are proposing to 3 go with, analyzing whether or not those proposers are 4 capable of, in fact, performing under those documents? 5 MR. LOONEY: That's correct, sir. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I make a motion that we 8 authorize our risk management consultant, Gary Looney, to 9 proceed with negotiations with Employee Benefit 10 Administrators, Inc.; Mutual of Omaha; Group and Pension 11 Administrators, Inc.; and Benefit Planners, and in an effort 12 to continue work towards our insurance -- county health 13 insurance. That's it. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 16 the authorization for the consultant to continue to 17 negotiate with the four named proposers. Any further 18 question or discussion on the motion? Yes, sir? 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Just for 20 clarification, when we had the workshop, we -- among other 21 things, we learned something about the H.R.A., health 22 reimbursement, and the H.S.A., health savings account. 23 These are still on the table as options? 24 MR. LOONEY: Yes, those are still on the 25 table as options. 11-22-04 17 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Coincidentally, I 2 picked up an out-of-state newspaper a day or two ago, and it 3 was talking about the that state's rolling out a new health 4 savings account, which is -- 5 MR. LOONEY: Is that Tennessee? 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No, Arkansas. Of 7 25,000 eligible employees, 45 signed up. And it went on to 8 the school district; it was a bigger flop than that. So, 9 I'm -- I would be pretty reluctant to consider that. 10 MR. LOONEY: The State of Texas offered to 11 the teacher retirement system this year -- prior to this 12 year, they had planned on offering a health savings account 13 to all teachers, and in August they pulled that option from 14 the offering. So, H.S.A. -- H.R.A. is the primary; H.S.A. 15 is secondary. The only other thing, Judge, is timing. Do 16 you have a court meeting scheduled before December the 2nd 17 next month? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, but we could. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: No, our meetings -- our 20 regularly scheduled meetings are the second and fourth 21 Mondays. But I understand the urgency and the need to get 22 this matter resolved, and -- 23 MR. LOONEY: I'd like for you to consider a 24 special court session, possibly later in the week. Not the 25 2nd, but later in the week, to go over and make a 11-22-04 18 1 recommendation. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The 2nd is a Thursday. 3 MR. LOONEY: Thursday? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thursday, December 2nd? 6 MR. LOONEY: December 2nd, yes, sir. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I have probate in the morning, 8 but I could probably be available probably by 11:00. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How long do you 10 anticipate? 11 MR. LOONEY: It will probably take anywhere 12 from an hour and a half to probably, at the most, two hours. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 1:00? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm not sure what I have in 15 the way of juvenile hearings scheduled. I normally have 16 juvenile hearings scheduled on Thursday starting at 1:30. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How about Wednesday? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Wednesday. I can work on 19 Wednesday. 20 MR. LOONEY: Later afternoon on Wednesday? 21 3:00? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 3:00. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: 3:00 on Wednesday is fine. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's December 1? 11-22-04 19 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes. 2 MR. LOONEY: December 1st. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What time? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 3 o'clock. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 3 o'clock. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Gary, whatever you do, 7 don't link us with the state of Arkansas. 8 MR. LOONEY: No. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Whatever they do, go 10 the other way. 11 MR. LOONEY: Either them or Tennessee, either 12 one. Tennessee just closed down their state-operated 13 program, reverted back to public. Thank you very much. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll post a notice, then, for 15 3 o'clock on Wednesday, December the 1st, to consider 16 adoption of employee health benefits plan. 17 MR. LOONEY: Thank you, sir. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Thank you very 19 much, sir. Appreciate you being here this morning. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We haven't voted, have 21 we? Did we vote? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: No, we didn't. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We need to vote. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. We have a motion 25 and a second? 11-22-04 20 1 MS. PIEPER: Yes, sir. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 3 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 4 your right hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Next 9 item on the agenda is to consider, discuss, and approve a 10 blanket court order to pay the election workers for their 11 services when submitted by the County Clerk to the Auditor 12 for all future elections. I think the Clerk wanted this 13 item on so that there wouldn't be a delay in her being able 14 to pay the people that work the election, and they could get 15 paid rather promptly. 16 MS. PIEPER: That's correct. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How much delay is 18 there now? 19 MS. PIEPER: Well, usually we -- usually 20 there's at least a two-week delay. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pardon? 22 MS. PIEPER: Usually there's a two-week 23 delay, because we have to wait until the next Commissioners 24 Court. Unless I put it on the agenda during the time 25 that -- of the canvassing. But this way, the -- the 11-22-04 21 1 Assistant Auditor said if we do it this way, then the minute 2 I hand her the timesheets, then she starts figuring it and 3 can get them paid. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is just a policy 5 change. We can do this, I think, probably for future years, 6 'cause there's no more elections this year, so this is for 7 -- I have no problem with it. I mean, it's -- they're 8 budgeted funds. As long as they're budgeted funds and 9 there's money in the account, they're working, I don't see 10 any reason -- never have seen a reason for them to come to 11 us for approval. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There are budgeted 13 funds for the election, but the actual bill exceeded the 14 budgeted funds. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, if they don't have 16 the money -- 17 MS. PIEPER: Not on the election judges. I 18 had plenty of money for the election judges and clerks. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. I thought I 20 read it the other way. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move approval of a 22 court order to authorize paying election workers for their 23 services when those bills are submitted by the County Clerk 24 to the County Auditor for all elections. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 11-22-04 22 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 2 approval of the agenda item. Any question or discussion? 3 All in favor of that motion, signify by raising your right 4 hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Thank 9 you, Ms. Pieper. 10 MS. PIEPER: Thank you. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Next item on the agenda is 12 request for the Court to approve the rehire of a previously 13 employed employee at a salary higher than entry level. 14 Ms. Uecker? 15 MS. UECKER: Yes, sir. I recently lost an 16 employee because she was moving to -- back home to south 17 Texas, and so I had the opening, and that was at a 13. The 18 employee that left was at a 13-6. I've had several 19 applicants for that position, one of them being a former 20 employee that worked for me about 20 years, and -- well, 21 actually, before I became District Clerk, and who's by far 22 the more qualified, and I would like to have her fill that 23 position, but rather than at the 13-1 entry, at the 13-6. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree. Second. 11-22-04 23 1 JUDGE TINLEY: That was a motion? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That was a motion, I 3 guess. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 5 approval of the agenda item. Rehire at 13-6; is that 6 correct? 7 MS. UECKER: Yeah. I'd like for it to be 8 more, but, you know, that's -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are you telling me 10 that Simona was here before you? 11 MS. UECKER: No. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, god, nobody -- 13 MS. UECKER: No, nobody's been here before 14 me. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're talking Noah's 16 Ark stuff. 17 MS. UECKER: I learned to walk in this 18 courthouse. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And those funds are 20 budgeted because the employee that left was at a 13-6? 21 MS. UECKER: Right, mm-hmm. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Any question or discussion on 23 the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 24 your right hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11-22-04 24 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 MS. UECKER: Thank you. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Thank you, 5 Ms. Uecker. The next item on the agenda is Reverse 9-1-1. 6 That's interesting. Commissioner Williams, you want to 7 bring this one to us? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, I will. Several 9 months ago, I guess, really following the early spring 10 flood, I had a constituent call me and refer me to an 11 article in Express News about a Reverse 9-1-1 situation, or 12 a system that was in play in Comal County, I believe, and 13 wanted to know what, if anything, we could do about a like 14 situation here to provide warning for folks who live up and 15 down the river and the creeks in flooding situations. So, I 16 called our friend, Mr. Amerine, asked him what he knew about 17 it; he said he'd heard about it, but he would take a look 18 into it. And, so, with that introduction, I'd like for him 19 to tell us all about it, because it does seem to me that it 20 offers some potential, particularly in a county like ours 21 where flooding events are frequent. Thank you for coming, 22 Bill. 23 MR. AMERINE: Thank you, Commissioners, Judge 24 Tinley. Thank you for having me here today to talk about 25 this emergency communications system. And I'm going to stop 11-22-04 25 1 referring to it as Reverse 9-1-1, because that's actually a 2 registered product name, and I don't want them calling me 3 and asking me how interested I am in buying it at this point 4 in time. But I think Reverse 9-1-1, the reason why that's 5 caught on is because that's -- essentially, the concept 6 behind this is that you have some form of an emergency that 7 you want to notify a large segment of your population. You 8 use largely the same databases that we use for the typical 9 9-1-1 system; phone list, phone numbers, locations. This is 10 something that's already been nationally used by multiple 11 jurisdictions. There's a hoard of companies out there 12 providing services, and I'm going to talk a little bit about 13 the difference between those types of services, and the -- 14 the capability versus cost, and then talk about what the 15 Court might want Kerr 9-1-1 to do going forward, as far as 16 perhaps providing full-blown business cases, cost analysis, 17 and maybe implementation plans for a future date. 18 Essentially, an emergency communication 19 Reverse 9-1-1 system is -- is the ability to call a segment 20 of your population with a prerecorded message and let them 21 know that they're in some form of public safety hazard. 22 Could be a chemical spill, a derailment of a train, like 23 we've seen several in San Antonio with toxic chemicals. It 24 could be the Guadalupe going over its banks. Could be an 25 escaped convict, which we just recently had here in Kerr 11-22-04 26 1 County. It can be any number of things. It could be used 2 for letting folks know that there's a lost child. I mean, 3 the limit of -- there is no limit on the sort of things that 4 a jurisdiction could use this notification system for. 5 There's two basic types of systems. There is 6 a service that you can pay for; provide your databases -- 7 your phone databases, and essentially they manage all the 8 infrastructure, the hardware, the premise equipment, if you 9 will, the phone lines, to be able to provide these messages 10 when you need them. There's a standard package with a 11 certain number of timed calls that you get for an annual 12 fee. If you exceed that, there's a cost for exceeding that 13 fee. There's also a premise-based -- or an equipment-based 14 system that you could actually buy the hardware, the phone 15 lines, and you could manage all that yourself. There's 16 typically -- just like with our 9-1-1 system that we manage 17 today, there's upgrade costs every few years. There's 18 maintenance costs, and there's also the month-to-month phone 19 line costs that you have to have to be able to provide that 20 service. It's not complex technology. It's not difficult 21 to manage. 22 There are -- from the funding perspective, 23 there are FEMA and other grant funds available to get you 24 started in this. What we really need to do next is have me 25 come back to the Court and provide you full business cases 11-22-04 27 1 on a cost-versus-capability by vendor, and talk about what 2 the Court would like 9-1-1 to do -- Kerr 9-1-1 to do going 3 forward as far as implementing a system like this. And, 4 with that brief introduction of what it is, I'll answer any 5 questions you might have. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: First question, is this 7 -- I mean, is this something that 9-1-1 will undertake? 8 MR. AMERINE: I think that's something for 9 discussion. It's not mandated by law. It is a public 10 service. It could be managed by any number of groups, by a 11 collective of the law enforcement agencies in Kerr County. 12 It could be by P.D. or by the Sheriff's Office. It could be 13 us. It's not mandated by law, but, certainly, we could do 14 that. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the cost -- 16 MR. AMERINE: Cost can be substantial if you 17 buy your own equipment. It can be fairly affordable if you 18 don't, but it's based upon capability. If you're only going 19 to make a few thousand calls a year, 30-second to 1-minute 20 calls per year, which will be based on the events that occur 21 here in Kerr County that require a call, then it can be 22 quite affordable. If we were going to use it for 23 everything, it can be -- can become quite expensive. I 24 mean, if you looked at the packet I provided you, you saw 25 costs that could be as little as $5,000 a year, all the way 11-22-04 28 1 up to 50, 60, 70 thousand dollars a year. Just depends on 2 the system and the capability you buy. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, I mean, the cost -- 4 who would pay? The 9-1-1 budget, or -- 5 MR. AMERINE: Certainly could be considered. 6 I'm not -- I'm not here today to say that's out of the 7 question, but -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, okay, it's on the 9 table for anyone. 10 MR. AMERINE: Yeah. I think understanding 11 full cost versus capability is the first step before 12 worrying about who's going to pay for it. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Bill, I can 15 understand where you would get the information to 16 disseminate if it was a law enforcement matter. That would 17 originate from the Sheriff's Department or the Police 18 Department or Texas Department of Public Safety or something 19 like that. How would you gather the information for 20 dissemination if it were a flooding event? 21 MR. AMERINE: Well, I think TexDOT's 22 currently -- I mean, there's all sorts of things that are 23 going on right now to help the residents of Kerr County as 24 far as early flood warning. There was a demonstration -- I 25 didn't attend it, but I was over there at TexDOT for just 11-22-04 29 1 part of the demonstration of some early warning devices. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I got some 3 information to share with the Court here on that. 4 MR. AMERINE: Right. In all the instances 5 that I have actually called and spoken to folks, it seems to 6 be that this -- the process to get a Reverse 9-1-1 or an 7 emergency notification system has been a collective effort 8 by the various jurisdictions within a certain area. Hasn't 9 been a -- "Well, the Sheriff decided to do this," or "9-1-1 10 has decided to do this." It's been a collective effort, 11 because it's not just a single-user system. It wouldn't be 12 just for P.D.'s use or just for the Sheriff's use, or 13 TexDOT, or the Forest Service. We have wildfire problems 14 here, you know. Perhaps -- you know, there's any number -- 15 the possibilities are unlimited on who might want to use 16 this, so I can't see how a single entity or jurisdiction 17 could possibly manage it and have control over it. Would 18 you really want -- and I don't mean this as any kind of 19 disparaging remark, but do you really want Kerrville Police 20 Department deciding that something the County wants to 21 notify citizens of doesn't meet the threshold for doing 22 that? So, I think all sorts of things to get from A to B 23 here have to happen, as far as setting up, what it's going 24 to cost, how it's going to be paid for, who's going to own 25 and operate it, what are the arguments for making a 11-22-04 30 1 notification. All those things have to be worked out in 2 advance. I don't think any of those are insurmountable. 3 I'm not talking years; we're talking months to work those 4 issues out. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: To the extent that 6 you're knowledgeable, how did Comal County set up its 7 system? 8 MR. AMERINE: My understanding -- and I 9 didn't see specifically Comal as much as I did some of the 10 other agencies, but many of the agencies have sat down and 11 gone through this process that I just defined; finding out 12 what the cost will be based upon vendor, getting the 13 interested parties together to talk about co-ownership of 14 responsibilities and costs, and then actually requesting the 15 funding. And, in many cases, grant funds, like I say, have 16 been used. There's a real direct tie to interoperability, 17 which is a big keyword for FEMA funds, and there's a 18 Homeland Security factor involved with a Reverse 9-1-1 kind 19 of capability that makes it a shoe-in for grant money. But, 20 again, on Comal County, I have not asked them how they did 21 their funding. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Amerine, following up a 23 bit on Commissioner Williams, in an event that requires 24 notification because of a geographical aspect, I assume this 25 is GIS-driven? You can merely carve out a segment and 11-22-04 31 1 everything -- everybody within that -- 2 MR. AMERINE: Right. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: -- those coordinates can be 4 notified? 5 MR. AMERINE: It's actually -- most systems 6 allow you to do any number of things. One of them is -- can 7 be list-driven, where you have a list of people that you 8 always want to notify in a certain event. And it can be 9 GIS-driven, where -- and it's really quite simple. We 10 already have the databases at 9-1-1 that will feed into a 11 Reverse 9-1-1 system, where someone does nothing more -- and 12 it may be a service agency that we provide the data to. We 13 might say from this point on the Guadalupe to this point, 14 anybody within a 3-mile limit on either side of that road 15 needs to be notified. They draw a circle around that area. 16 It generates the call list. They record the message to go 17 out, and then they execute the message and it goes out, 18 typically around 1,000 calls per hour. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Following up on 20 Commissioner Williams' concerns, it would be important to be 21 real clear about who has the authority to put something 22 on -- what message goes on something like that. I'm 23 thinking about the chlorine leak down at San Antonio. You 24 had three or four different agencies there, and one of them 25 might have been saying there isn't any problem, and the 11-22-04 32 1 other one saying there's a problem and people need to leave 2 their houses, and the third one saying no, people ought to 3 stay in their houses. It would be -- there's a lot of 4 potential to do something badly wrong on whatever the 5 message is in a situation like that. Floods are probably a 6 lot more clear, or criminals roaming around the county. But 7 there are some situations where we could put bad advice out. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm sure that's 9 probably true. It goes to the point Mr. Amerine was making 10 about someone else making the call as to what's important 11 and what's not. My original thought had to do basically 12 with flooding. 13 MR. AMERINE: Right. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Flooding information. 15 Does TexDOT currently monitor the rise in the river? 16 U.G.R.A. used to do that. 17 MR. AMERINE: I do not -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They gave it up. 19 MR. AMERINE: I do not know the answer to 20 that. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I believe they monitor 22 certain roads. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, but not when 24 the river's cresting and where. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I have -- on that 11-22-04 33 1 issue, though, I have talked to Greg Etter about that, and 2 they are looking at putting some models together, probably 3 with FEMA's help, so they can say rain -- like, a rain event 4 on Johnson Creek, what's that going to do, you know, 5 downstream, and how long it takes for that water to get down 6 to just one of the low water crossings. So, there will be 7 some notification when to -- the problem is, of course, it 8 depends on where the events are exactly and, you know, how 9 many -- how much it rains downstream. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I remember when 11 U.G.R.A. bought the early warning system and put them up. 12 They never did work, number one, and were probably purchased 13 with some taxpayers' money, but I understand that they -- 14 now that they realize it couldn't work, they gave them to 15 another agency that's not even in our county. A taxpayers' 16 purchase there. But if you talk to the -- well, you talk to 17 the fire department people in the City of Kerrville, they'll 18 tell you that they still would prefer to rely on the old -- 19 the olden way of the guy standing out on 1340 on a bridge 20 and telling -- calling and telling them on the phone, 21 "There's a 3-foot rise coming." That you can count on that, 22 and there's no question of it. And those old-timers out 23 there can tell you when it's going to hit Kerrville and the 24 whole thing. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I've got a good 11-22-04 34 1 system now; T.D. Hall calls me. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Actually, there's -- the 4 system you're talking about the taxpayers paid for is up and 5 working. There are more monitors. You can go on the web 6 site for U.G.R.A. and you can get the exact level of the 7 river in, I believe, six different spots from Hunt to 8 Comfort, of the river. 'Cause it tells you how many feet it 9 is and how many cubic feet per second are flowing, and it's 10 from -- it's about a minute old -- no, it's every 20 minutes 11 it's updated, I think. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that part of the 13 system they originally installed? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I believe so. I believe 15 those monitors that went down to -- I mean, the stuff that 16 went down to G.B.R.A. somehow got back to U.S.G.S. I think 17 it's that original -- I don't know. I don't know if it's 18 the same monitors, but it was part of that deal when it went 19 to G.B.R.A., as I understand it. And it's -- you can look 20 exactly -- the problem is, when I look at the data, I don't 21 know what it means. I don't know what it means when they're 22 telling me that the river is at 6 feet in Hunt. Well, I 23 don't know how -- you know, how high that is without going 24 out there with a measuring stick to tell me. I need some 25 better information so I know what that translates to through 11-22-04 35 1 the flow of the river. If you look at -- like, for example, 2 they have one at Heeson Dam, they have a monitor. It will 3 tell you it's 2 feet. Well, 2 feet at the dam, 'cause the 4 river's so wide, will be 28 feet in Comfort. So, it's hard 5 to -- 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good point. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But there's -- a lot of 8 that information is available now. You just -- someone 9 needs to translate it so it's more user-friendly. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And then this gets to 11 the dissemination of it. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct. 13 MR. AMERINE: Just kind of a -- a side note, 14 if you will. This isn't the first time this question has 15 been brought to Kerr 9-1-1. The Texas Department of Health 16 came to me to -- for databases, and then asked what methods 17 we would have for disseminating a public health issue where 18 they needed to get certain segments of our population in for 19 vaccines. A logical conclusion is you'd use something like 20 a Reverse 9-1-1 or an emergency notification system to 21 identify certain segments of the population to get the word 22 out as far as where they come to get vaccinated. So, it is 23 an ongoing, and becoming more prominently requested service. 24 I think the question is figuring how to get there. And it's 25 on my agenda, and I guess I'm asking the Court -- I think 11-22-04 36 1 Rusty wants to say something here -- but ask the Court 2 whether they'd like to have Kerr 9-1-1 continue to pursue 3 this to some fruition. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me make an inquiry, if I 5 might, first. Sometime back, the Sheriff brought us a 6 proposal for having several lines -- multiple phone lines 7 available for a mass notification situation. How does that 8 -- how does that relate, Sheriff? 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's pretty well the 10 same thing. His deal would be a lot better. I've looked at 11 this for a number of years, because there's been too many 12 instances when we really needed to be able to notify a 13 certain group of the public. Jonathan and them can remember 14 a murder that occurred down there, and we get all these 15 calls, or we've had missing children on the weekend when I 16 can't get notification to all the surrounding areas. It's 17 one of the best programs I've ever seen, and doing it 18 through 9-1-1 would make the best sense in the world, 19 whether it's -- you know, the City budgets part of it, we 20 budget part of it or whatever. Because they've got the 21 database already, instead of trying to get people to sign up 22 and register, and you only get so many with a lot of the 23 plans I had looked at. Plus, the plans I had looked at ran 24 anywhere from $50,000 to $100,000 trying to get that done, 25 and doing it as a county-wide deal through their 11-22-04 37 1 organization and the emergency agencies putting in for it 2 would be best. 3 You could also adopt and have to adopt the 4 policies, kind of like the Amber Alert does, to where 5 there's certain criteria that has to be met before you can 6 put out that deal. But I'm kind of like Buster, too, on the 7 flooding situation. You know, the best predictors and the 8 best notification you're ever going to get of the flooding 9 is the officers or the volunteer fire departments that are 10 out there watching it coming up, 'cause they can tell -- or 11 T.D. Hall; I've used him for 20 years on letting us know 12 what the river's going to do, because he's so -- so great 13 out west. So, that's why you get it, and then if you've got 14 the protocol that you put that in and have a certain person 15 that's able to issue that and get it out to the people, that 16 it's a fabulous system. There's a lot of agencies across 17 the state and across all the states that are using it, and 18 it really needs to be looked into. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I, for one, 20 would like to see Mr. Amerine pursue it, come back with 21 something a little more definitive, but I wanted you to 22 bring it to us today. I'm not sure how the rest of the 23 Court feels about it. I do appreciate you taking the time 24 to do what you've done. I want to add one other thing to 25 this discussion. It's nothing that we're going to do or 11-22-04 38 1 need to spend money on, but at a recent meeting at TexDOT -- 2 the Judge and I were there -- Mike Coward provided us with 3 this information. This is a new safety flood gauge that has 4 flashing lights and the transmission of signals and so forth 5 and so on. Believe it or not, I believe it's manufactured 6 in Boerne, and TexDOT's going to try three or four of them 7 here in Kerr County. It's new. It's a better alert system, 8 a warning system at the -- at the crossings. I'm not sure 9 which crossings they're going to arm with these new devices, 10 but they're going to do it and give it a test run here in 11 Kerr County. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: It occurs to me that we 13 basically have two areas of interest, and that is, one, a 14 little bit more specific information as it might relate to 15 Kerr County, its population, its -- the type of risks that 16 might be incurred or the type of notifications that might be 17 needed, number one. And, number two, what type of funding 18 -- outside funding is available out there in the way -- be 19 it FEMA, Homeland Security, or -- or other funds that might 20 be available to defray that cost. That's what I'd like to 21 see Mr. Amerine develop and get back with us. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do we need to 23 formalize that with a motion, Judge? Or just informally 24 indicate -- 25 MR. AMERINE: I have it on my list of things 11-22-04 39 1 to do, and I'll -- 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 3 MR. AMERINE: -- I'll try to get more 4 definitive cases available for the Court and come back and 5 speak to you. If I could just make one final comment, I 6 know you'd like to move on in your agenda. Just about every 7 other jurisdiction that has this system has -- and perhaps 8 because a lot of citizens see these kind of notifications as 9 nuisance calls, it's essentially the same technology that 10 telemarketers use to contact folks with A.V.R.'s, automated 11 voice units, to try to sell you something. And despite the 12 fact that the messages that we might want to send out are in 13 the best interests of the people receiving calls, many of 14 the jurisdictions, if they have an "S" for subscription to 15 the program, have given citizens or companies the ability to 16 opt out of the program. That's something that we might want 17 to consider as we get down to more finite detail about what 18 these systems offer. So, anyway, just a final thought. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Seems to me that this 20 is really a County budget issue that we'll be talking about 21 -- well, I'm pretty sure it is. Probably won't be talking 22 about it until May or June, anyway, so I don't see that we 23 need to rush. Be happy to sit down and talk with you every 24 day, but I don't see County funding coming. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We won't need to do 11-22-04 40 1 it every day. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, good. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the other 4 thing -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm relieved. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: At some point fairly 7 early in the process, City of Kerrville needs to be brought 8 into it. 9 MR. AMERINE: I agree. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Because, I mean, it 11 doesn't make sense to do it -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Everybody. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- outside. It's got to 14 be county-wide. 15 MR. AMERINE: And there may be state funds 16 from D.P.S., because an awful lot of your hazardous spills 17 are going to be on I-10 coming through the county, so I 18 think all the jurisdictions need to be part of this process. 19 Here on Homeland Security, for this state, most agencies 20 like Kerrville P.D. have already received most of their 21 equipment. And I think this next round of funding that's 22 going to come, you know, ought to -- it's going to be a 23 little bit less, but it's going to be more geared towards 24 this type of program for the County to start doing for 25 notification, and you'll see some money available through 11-22-04 41 1 that quite a bit. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Bill. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: We thank you for bringing that 4 to us, Mr. Amerine. 5 MR. AMERINE: You're welcome. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Looking forward to your 7 further work on that. If there's nothing further on that 8 particular agenda item, we'll move forward. Next item is to 9 consider the final plat of Eagle Ridge Subdivision located 10 in Precinct 4. Good morning, Mr. Odom. 11 MR. ODOM: Good morning, Judge. Can I just 12 inject something here on this last conversation? I think if 13 you contact the D.P.S., Texas Department of Public Safety, 14 they're in charge or the coordinator for emergency 15 management, and I think the gentleman's name is Scott 16 McCord. And, also, the hazard mitigation grants I believe 17 is the Texas Water Commission, and so if you contact Scott 18 up there in Austin or the Water Board, maybe there's some 19 grant money for mitigation to do some of this that you're 20 talking about. Okay. What we're here for is the final plat 21 of Eagle Ridge Subdivision, and I think you have it before 22 you. Open for any discussions, but my recommendation is 23 that we accept this final plat. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I move to approve -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 11-22-04 42 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- the plat of Eagle 2 Ridge Subdivision in Precinct 4. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 4 approval of the agenda item. Any question or discussion? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just -- question. On the 6 floodplain portion, this delineates Zone A and Zone X. 7 MR. ODOM: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is Zone A the floodway 9 and Zone X the 100-year floodplain? Or -- 10 MR. ODOM: Zone A is an unnamed area. It's 11 not the floodway. Floodway is undefined in there. Zone X 12 is an area that floods maybe sheet flow for a foot or 13 something, but it's not anything that we can impose that's 14 where they can build at. But Zone A is -- is undefined as 15 far as the floodplain. And he's got this -- he's already 16 determined the B.F.E. out there, base flood elevation, plus 17 1 foot. And that's right up underneath each numbered area 18 where they had to build a fence forward to in that zone. 19 They could do it in Zone A, but I think they'd rather be in 20 Zone X as far as insurance is concerned. But they would be 21 coming to me on that. 22 MR. VOELKEL: Commissioner, Zone A is the 23 100-year floodplain; Zone X is the 500-year. And what 24 Mr. Odom says about it's undefined in Zone A, the map does 25 not give you any elevations. That's basically what we've 11-22-04 43 1 had to go out and find for this subdivision. 2 MR. ODOM: Thank you. That was an easy way 3 to say that. That makes exactly -- 4 MR. VOELKEL: You said it. 5 MR. ODOM: I'm sorry, I'm going back to being 6 a lawyer now. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One just said it the 8 Aggie way. 9 MR. ODOM: Zone A is 100 years, undefined, 10 and had to be determined. So, we -- my calculations, he 11 went out to determine that. Zone X is a 500-year frequency; 12 it happens about two-tenths of a percent. You got a 1 13 percent chance for a 100-year frequency. So -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The B.F.E., those are the 15 numbers in the box under -- 16 MR. ODOM: That's correct. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Like 1891 MSL? 18 MR. ODOM: Right. 19 MR. VOELKEL: That's correct. 20 MR. ODOM: That's correct, plus 1 foot. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 22 MR. ODOM: Am I correct on that? 23 MR. VOELKEL: Right. 24 MR. ODOM: Did I answer your question 25 logically? 11-22-04 44 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, I just wanted to 2 make sure there was a reasonable amount of property in each 3 lot to build on, and there is. 4 MR. ODOM: See this dotted line up there? 5 So, there's enough there that they can build. You know, 6 they could build in the -- in the Zone A, but they would 7 have to go through a letter of amendment for a revision for 8 fill and stuff like that. So, it could be done, but that's 9 up to the individual and what -- how much insurance they 10 wish to pay. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Did we vote? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 13 discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion, 14 signify by raising your right hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Thank you. 19 Let's move to next item, consider the preliminary plat of 20 Big Sky Ranch in Precinct 4. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What is the 22 right-of-way on that main road going through there? 23 MR. ODOM: Excuse me just a second. Let me 24 put this back here. The right-of-way is 60-foot. However, 25 in this preliminary plat, the previous County Engineer -- 11-22-04 45 1 what they originally came in with were about, I think, 50 2 lots. They've changed this back to 15-acre lots; they had 3 5-acre lots. That right-of-way is 60 foot, but there are 4 some -- some variances I'll bring to the Court. This thing 5 has already been built. Mr. Johnston had approved it about 6 a -- it was about a year ago, I think, and he approved the 7 subgrade and the sealcoat. I caught this, and we went out 8 and the Commissioner and I have looked at it. It was not 9 acceptable. It was to be a local road. They have it as a 10 country lane as the way this was coming down. So, they've 11 changed the preliminary to a country lane, which is a 12 16-foot pavement, to be County-maintained. 13 The lots were changed back to 15-acre lots or 14 greater, and I've got a situation out there that's been 15 approved by Franklin that I've got two cul-de-sacs that are 16 smaller than what they're supposed to be, but they're -- you 17 can turn the radius on them. I had my haul truck go out 18 there to try it. I had the individual's haul truck; my haul 19 truck was a little bit too short for it, 'cause it's longer, 20 but we feel like it's acceptable. The biggest thing that 21 would be going in there is a garbage truck. The sealcoat 22 was not with the correct rock. Wasn't TexDOT, but it was 23 pea gravel, and Franklin had allowed them to do that before 24 on another subdivision off Lange Ravine, and so those are 25 the two variances. Other than that, it was built to specs. 11-22-04 46 1 They've changed this up to be 15-acre lots, and I think -- 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You drill what, 3 three test holes to look at? 4 MR. ODOM: Yes. And I had the -- I had their 5 P.S.I. come out from San Antonio, dig the three test holes. 6 I picked the sites. It passed. It met the base material, 7 which was a Type A, Grade 3 caliche, and it's acceptable. 8 Sealcoat's good. The rise is a little bit short, but other 9 than that, this subdivision is -- meets all the subdivision 10 specifications. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I can tell you, by you 12 doing the test on the subgrade, I -- I feel a lot better 13 about it. 14 MR. ODOM: I -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm glad you did that. 16 Thank you for doing that. 17 MR. ODOM: Well, they had the test on the 18 subgrade, but I had the test on the base done. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I meant the base. 20 MR. ODOM: Yes. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Leonard, the -- I mean, 22 Franklin doesn't have the authority to give a waiver on the 23 cul-de-sac size. I can see it on the rock and that, and 24 that's -- I guess I have a bit of a problem giving a waiver 25 on that. I'm sorry if they built it. I mean, the rules are 11-22-04 47 1 the rules, and I don't -- I don't recall giving a waiver on 2 that. I wouldn't know why we would give a waiver. 3 MR. ODOM: I don't either. I went through 4 and read everything that I could get, and he accepted -- he 5 made two inspections out there. They had sub -- sub-base 6 tests done. The way I see what happened, it was the radius 7 itself was cut out, but the radius should have been not in 8 the depth of that. It should have been the road -- you 9 know, the diameter of the subgrade itself. But the total 10 cut was where it was at, and Frank should have caught that, 11 but he didn't. And he allowed -- passed the sub -- you 12 know, it passed. Allowed them to put base down, and they 13 went forward with it. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Leonard, would you 15 explain the field note or the plat note at the bottom that 16 says "2.12 acres within a 50-foot-wide strip along the 17 occupied right-of-way of Lower Reservation Road to be deeded 18 to Kerr County." What does that mean, and why is it a 19 50-foot-wide right-of-way when you said earlier that it's 20 supposed to be 60? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where are you reading? 22 MR. ODOM: Where are you at? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right on the bottom, 24 looking from the left to right, the second field note. 25 "2.12 acres within a 50-foot-wide strip..." 11-22-04 48 1 JUDGE TINLEY: It appears that's half of the 2 roadway. The line goes down the middle of that Lower 3 Reservation Road, it appears. 4 MR. ODOM: Well, Reservation's about 50 foot. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 6 MR. ODOM: 2.12 in a 50-foot-wide strip. 7 That is the right-of-way for Tatsch -- what we used to call 8 Tatsch. It's called Lower Reservation now, so that's the 9 existing out there, and that was probably to the center of 10 that road. His half was into the road. And those are 11 normally deeded or easements -- prescriptive easements, and 12 they were to the center of Tatsch Road, so that would come 13 out with the 2.12 acres. All that is Tatsch Road. They 14 just have -- now that we platted, they have to deed that 15 over to us. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- I mean, I 17 don't have a problem with that. I think that -- and it's 18 too late to catch that at this point, but in the future -- 19 we should have required, I think, them to give us additional 20 -- get up to 60-foot on Tatsch Road as well, just so we can 21 start getting the width on some of these roads. But, you 22 know, that's not that big a deal. But I am a little bit 23 hung up on this cul-de-sac. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm with you. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. I mean, they -- 11-22-04 49 1 you know, they didn't ask for a waiver. They weren't 2 granted a waiver. And that cul-de-sac needs to be to our 3 minimums; otherwise, we have no leg to stand on when any 4 other developer says we don't want to do it. That's 5 basically what they did. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I share your 7 concern, Commissioner, but I'm also concerned that the 8 County represented to this developer that that was 9 acceptable. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, they didn't. In our 11 rules, unless they have a waiver from the Court, there is no 12 representation. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Does every developer 14 know that? Should they be able to rely on what the County 15 Engineer tells them? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think it's the 17 obligation of the County Engineer to go out there and 18 measure the dam -- or the cul-de-sac. I think, you know, on 19 the road and the materials used, there -- I think there is a 20 responsibility, but that the -- you know, for the County -- 21 for us to say the County Engineer needs to go out there, or, 22 you know, Leonard needs to go out there and check that 23 right-of-way all along to make sure that it's -- and the 24 road width is, you know, the minimum or the specifications 25 that they're supposed to be building it to is unreasonable. 11-22-04 50 1 You know, if there's -- the material was varied a little 2 bit; they used, I think, a different type of rock. But I 3 disagree on the cul-de-sac, and I think that's an issue we 4 get into on -- you know, you said a garbage truck is the 5 biggest. Well, we also have fire trucks. And, you know, I 6 don't think the County probably -- or volunteer fire 7 departments don't have any trucks that can be a real 8 problem, but I see the precedent as to why have the rule? 9 Why don't we just say you can make the cul-de-sac any size 10 you want? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: We are dealing with a 12 preliminary plat, are we not? 13 MR. ODOM: Yes, this is a preliminary. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: This is the first plat that 15 was submitted, and -- 16 MR. ODOM: They submitted one once before, 17 but they've changed it. They had 5 acres and probably 18 30-some-odd lots out there. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And everything's 20 already built. 21 MR. ODOM: Well, let's put it -- when I came 22 on board, that's what I saw out there. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Commissioner, would 24 it -- what's the right protocol here? Should we approve the 25 preliminary plat with the requirement that the cul-de-sacs 11-22-04 51 1 be brought into compliance with our rules, or shall we not 2 approve it and wait for it? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we can approve 4 it, but the final plat approval will not be granted until 5 they get the cul-de-sacs to our specifications. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I move that we 7 approve the preliminary plat of Big Sky Ranch in Precinct 4, 8 with the requirement that the developer bring the 9 cul-de-sacs into our subdivision rules compliance by the 10 time he brings back the final plat. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. And if I might 13 make a -- 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- a brief -- I guess an 16 amendment to that? And to -- to, I guess, approve the 17 variance in material used in the -- 18 MR. ODOM: On the sealcoat. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On the sealcoat. 20 MR. ODOM: That's fine. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just one quick 22 question. Leonard, are there any unaddressed stormwater 23 issues? 24 MR. ODOM: No. At 15 acres or more, you 25 don't have to have a drainage study. You don't have to -- 11-22-04 52 1 that's in Zone X up there, so we have no authority -- 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 3 MR. ODOM: -- by law to do anything. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We hear about the 5 Great Divide in Texas. This thing is right on top. 6 MR. ODOM: Right on top. It's really 7 better -- this plat here is a whole lot better at 15 acres 8 than it was at 5. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 10 comments? We have a motion and a second to approve the 11 preliminary plat of Big Sky Ranch in Precinct 4, subject to 12 the cul-de-sacs being brought in conformity with the 13 Subdivision Rules prior to final platting being approved, 14 and further subject to a variance being obtained on the 15 material used in the sealcoating. Any further question or 16 comments? All in favor of that motion, signify by raising 17 your right hand. 18 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is it break time? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move to the next item on 24 the agenda, -- 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There's your answer. 11-22-04 53 1 JUDGE TINLEY: -- to consider variances for 2 revision of the plat for all of Lots 6 and 7 and parts of 3 Lots 4 and 5 of Hartshorn Country, Volume 1, Page 68, and 4 the abandonment of unimproved county easement, and set a 5 public hearing on the same. 6 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. This is a plat -- I 7 believe in September, this was brought to you before. 8 Mr. Cowart came before the Court and was talking about 9 changing four lots. This subdivision is over 50 years old, 10 and changing four lots to two. And, so, what you have 11 before you is a preliminary plat. I'm asking the Court if 12 we will need -- this word probably is not the best one. I 13 don't know what else to use, other than "variances" for 14 this, but one would be for the size of Lot 2. Am I right on 15 that? Also, a variance for the lot frontage, that 50-foot 16 easement. There was a county easement going up this. It 17 was 50 foot wide. It was never built, so we need a variance 18 for this lot size at 2.54 acres. This is where the home -- 19 the old homestead, the Hartshorn homestead is at. I believe 20 last time that there was a problem with this line; you can 21 see this dotted line. This was moved away. That was one of 22 the comments in the minutes. They moved this line back up. 23 And that we want to abandon this 50-foot unimproved road 24 easement, go back to Lot 1. That way it's not county -- not 25 on records for the county. And to set a public hearing for 11-22-04 54 1 December the 28th, 2004, at 10 o'clock, or the time set by 2 the Court. I think this cleans things up. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One of those that's 4 making a bad old situation better? 5 MR. ODOM: Better. That's what it's doing. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a participation form 7 that was filled out by Mr. Cowart. Do you wish to offer 8 anything, Mr. Cowart? 9 MR. COWART: No, sir. No, I was here a few 10 weeks ago. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I move for 13 approval, and that includes setting a public hearing for 14 December 28th at 10 a.m. I just said that December 28th to 15 let everybody know that we are here working. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 18 approval of the agenda item and setting a public hearing. 19 Is there any further question or comment or discussion? All 20 in favor of that motion, signify by raising your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 25 (Commissioner Baldwin left the courtroom.) 11-22-04 55 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why don't we take a 2 break, Judge? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: I think Commissioner Baldwin 4 has indicated it's time for us to take a short break, so 5 we'll stand in recess for 10 to 15 minutes. 6 (Recess taken from 10:05 a.m. to 10:20 a.m.) 7 - - - - - - - - - - 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's come back to order. We 9 recessed a few minutes after 10:00. We'll now take up the 10 next item on the agenda, which was a timed item for 11 10 o'clock. Consider and discuss awarding bids for the Hill 12 Country Youth Exhibit Center roof and HVAC. Mr. Holekamp. 13 MR. HOLEKAMP: Good morning. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Bids were previously opened 15 and referred to you. What do you have for us this morning? 16 MR. HOLEKAMP: Okay. I have selected the two 17 bids who met the requirements and the parameters set up, and 18 the -- the preconstruction and also the conditions. The 19 roofing bid proposal submitted by Feller Construction -- 20 Fabrication, I should say, of Hunt, Texas, with a bid of 21 $108,431, is the one I have selected as being the best bid. 22 One bid that came in was a little less, but did not include 23 the air-conditioner curbs, which are required on that type 24 of a facility. The air conditioning, Hardin Air and Cooling 25 of Kerrville, with a bid of 41,425, was not only the low 11-22-04 56 1 bidder, but also the best bidder based on the -- the 2 conditions that we had set out for that building. So, those 3 are my two recommendations. We had several really good 4 bids, and I want to go on the record to say I appreciate the 5 bidders that did participate. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If we approve this 7 today, Glenn, when -- when is the starting date and when is 8 exit date? 9 MR. HOLEKAMP: Commissioner, I -- I had a 10 feeling you may ask that, and I -- I chose not to get with 11 them until this is approved to set up the time and dates and 12 that sort of thing. Timing is going to be very important 13 due to stock show in January. Weather conditions really 14 become a factor here in December and January. Some of it 15 may not be too conducive to -- to doing that roof work. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, we're not going 17 to get in the middle of the -- 18 MR. HOLEKAMP: No, sir. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- the program and 20 have a stock show. 21 MR. HOLEKAMP: No, sir, I would not do that. 22 Either we can do it before, or we'll not start it until 23 after. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. I sure wish we 25 could do it before and have it done. 11-22-04 57 1 MR. HOLEKAMP: I would have to make some 2 calls to make sure of that. I don't know the availability, 3 as far as the contractor, how long it takes him to crank up 4 and get going. I don't think the project takes that long. 5 It just a matter of weather, how the weather will cooperate 6 with us. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Glenn, I apologize for 8 getting here a few minutes late. The 108,000 -- 9 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's that note say 11 before that? 12 MR. HOLEKAMP: That's air conditioning curbs. 13 They set the curbs for the air-conditioners. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it doesn't include 15 the -- the air conditioning is not included? 16 MR. HOLEKAMP: No, just curbs. They're set 17 up. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And this was the -- 19 Feller Fabrication was the low bid? 20 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's Alfred Feller. 22 MR. HOLEKAMP: And then Hardin had the air 23 conditioning and heating, which those units would eliminate 24 the -- the need for gas heating on that roof of that -- or 25 in the exhibit hall. 11-22-04 58 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What was the -- the 2 amount we budgeted for those two projects? 3 MR. HOLEKAMP: If I'm not mistaken, it was 4 $150,000, so it's going to be real close. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Those amounts are within that, 6 though? 7 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Barely. 9 MR. HOLEKAMP: Barely. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for approval. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 13 the approval of the agenda item and award to the two bidders 14 as recommended by the Maintenance Director, that being 15 Feller Fabrication for the roofing system with curb, and the 16 HVAC to Hardin Heating and Cooling. Any question or 17 discussion? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Comment. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have some 20 comments -- go ahead. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Comment I have is just 22 going to what Glenn was talking about when I came back in 23 the room, related to the timing. It would be great to have 24 it done by the stock show. I don't see any possible way. I 25 mean, you're talking about the holidays coming in here, and 11-22-04 59 1 I would imagine it's at least going to take several weeks of 2 construction. And the stock show folks start working out 3 there almost full-time about the first of January. You 4 know, I think it's unfortunate we can't get it done. That 5 was our goal. But, you know, I don't want to be at -- it's 6 got to be clear that we're either done before and at least a 7 week ahead of time, or we don't start it. 8 MR. HOLEKAMP: That was my comments. I think 9 that would be very -- be very important that we handle it 10 that way. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'd like to lean on 12 them to -- or ask them to do it, you know, and have it done 13 a week before we start. If they tell us they can't do that, 14 well, they can't do it, but it sure would be good to have an 15 improvement out there when we have our junior stock show. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It would curb the 17 whining -- I mean concerns. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sorry. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, the absence of 21 any questions I might have asked would probably be a tipoff 22 that I am totally and unalterably opposed to this 23 expenditure of money. That building needs to go the way of 24 the dodo bird, and to put $150,000 into that building to 25 recover a pigpen that needs to be taken out, to me, is a 11-22-04 60 1 waste of taxpayers' money, and I'm going to oppose it. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're only covering the 3 front portion, correct? 4 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, they have pigs 6 in that, too. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: During the show. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Commissioner, -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Getting a little 10 rough. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- you'd know this 12 and I wouldn't, but haven't -- over the past several years, 13 maybe going back further than that, we've budgeted money to 14 -- to make capital improvements out there, and then this 15 money went unspent. If we didn't -- my question is, if we 16 didn't do this now, wouldn't we just be continuing that past 17 practice? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, we'd probably use 19 about one-fourth of it and bulldoze it down, and take the 20 rest of it and start our process for building a new one. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't think I'm 22 going to persuade him, do you? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think the -- 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think I would -- you 11-22-04 61 1 know, my feeling is that this means that building is going 2 to -- hopefully the pens behind it are going to go, but this 3 building's going to stay and be part of that long-term 4 facility out there. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's another good 6 reason why I'm opposed to it. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it's a commitment, in 8 my mind, for the Court to keep it there. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It is a commitment. 10 I'm not going to make that commitment for that building. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 12 comment upon the motion? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just wanted to point 14 out to Number 2 here that he's outnumbered here this 15 morning. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just -- 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand. But as 18 you have done so often, I can speak. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, I have one more 20 question. How -- okay. As I understand, the roof is going 21 to be a slight pitched roof going to the west. 22 MR. HOLEKAMP: Correct, sir. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. How are they going 24 to -- what is the plan where they tie into the -- I don't 25 know what you even call that. 11-22-04 62 1 MR. HOLEKAMP: The existing indoor arena? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, that mess of offices 3 and stuff in between the two buildings. That's -- 4 MR. HOLEKAMP: Oh, no, it'll be covered 5 there. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, where does it 7 start? Is it starting on the existing arena and going all 8 the way over that covered area? 9 MR. HOLEKAMP: It's going to start at the 10 existing indoor arena roof where it comes down. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 12 MR. HOLEKAMP: It comes down right at the 13 offices. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right on top of the 15 offices. 16 MR. HOLEKAMP: This roof will come to there 17 and be sealed up against that roof. The water from the 18 existing -- existing indoor arena will be taken to the south 19 towards the wash rack area, and then the remaining water 20 will be taken to the west. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How far -- 22 MR. HOLEKAMP: But that will be sealed. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess my -- my concern 24 is that the -- well, I think that building is salvageable. 25 That office area between the two is not, long-term. So -- 11-22-04 63 1 MR. HOLEKAMP: Well, I'm hoping with a roof 2 on it, it will be salvageable. See, this is where our 3 problem has been with the water -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 5 MR. HOLEKAMP: -- issue there. Too much 6 water coming off the indoor arena roof, complicating on top 7 of the flat roof, just gives us way too much water. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll go back. I do not 9 see those offices in that center area being part of a 10 long-term fix out there. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, I don't either. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I'm looking at this 13 roof on the current -- well, what's termed the exhibit hall. 14 So, on their structure, it can't be supported over those 15 offices, in my opinion. See what I'm saying? I don't -- I 16 want those offices out of there. 17 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yeah, but the -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're making a case 19 to go back to the drawing board, Commissioner. 20 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yeah, because the engineering 21 is -- is using the structure of the indoor -- the exhibit 22 center as a support -- part of the support. And it goes all 23 the way to their part of the offices. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I don't mind it 25 going to the exhibit hall, but, I mean, there's no -- I 11-22-04 64 1 don't believe there's any structural thing holding up those 2 offices. It's kind of bridged between two walls, kind of 3 stuck between. 4 MR. HOLEKAMP: You're talking about the 5 upstairs only. No, the other is all -- that's all part of 6 the -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, okay. 8 MR. HOLEKAMP: -- the exhibit center. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The upstairs part. The 10 upstairs. 11 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yeah, but that -- really, 12 we'll be bypassing that. That's really not an issue. But 13 we have to use the existing exhibit center framework, which 14 goes all the way to the indoor arena. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I thought there was a gap 16 between -- I thought there was one building, then the other 17 building. 18 MR. HOLEKAMP: No, just the roof is over it. 19 But, I mean, when these fellows bid it, they were using the 20 exhibit center as the foundation structure. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 22 MR. HOLEKAMP: And that's part of it. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I guess -- 24 MR. HOLEKAMP: Where the offices are. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, aren't the 11-22-04 65 1 offices and the restrooms and the concession area all in 2 that same general part of that building? 3 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I -- I was under the 5 impression that you have the exhibit hall, and then we have 6 the new arena, and then we kind of put lean-to roofs over 7 that center area over time that have -- but that the exhibit 8 hall -- is it an L-shaped building? It's not a square or 9 rectangle? 10 MR. HOLEKAMP: It's pretty much a rectangle. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Then it's got to be an L, 12 because those hog racks -- I mean -- 13 MR. HOLEKAMP: Oh, I know what -- yeah, but 14 that -- that's not going to affect the roof structure. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: As long as the roof is -- 16 MR. HOLEKAMP: Because the indoor arena is -- 17 is one size. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 19 MR. HOLEKAMP: So we're going to it. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 21 MR. HOLEKAMP: That is the -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just going to bridge over 23 that area. As long as you bridge over it, I don't have a 24 problem. We can tear out everything underneath it. 25 MR. HOLEKAMP: That's correct. 11-22-04 66 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. And my other 2 question is, is there a warranty on this? 3 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, the general metal 4 warranties that we get with -- I didn't bring all that with 5 me, but -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, anyway, there's a 7 warranty on the connecting to the arena, and that we're not 8 going to have leaking anywhere over the offices? 9 MR. HOLEKAMP: I believe Mr. Feller made it 10 very clear to me that he would make sure it's warrantied. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And we can make sure it's 12 in the contract. 13 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yeah. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 15 MR. HOLEKAMP: No, I don't see -- none of 16 them, you know, gave me a, you know, 5-year, 10-year, 17 20-year or whatever. I mean, it's partly because that was 18 not part of the bidding requirements. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just want to make sure 20 that where they make the connections to the arena -- 21 MR. HOLEKAMP: I agree. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- that that labor and 23 that -- that's not easy to do that. 24 MR. HOLEKAMP: That is correct. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't want to go back 11-22-04 67 1 and patch it three or four times in the future at our cost. 2 So, it's at their cost if it has to be patched. 3 MR. HOLEKAMP: See, there's going to be a lot 4 of flashing done on those, because, like I said, maybe 5 before you came in, is some of that water is going to be -- 6 off of the main roof is going to be taken to -- to the south 7 instead of taken to the -- to the west. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, and it's going to 9 go to -- 10 MR. HOLEKAMP: It will have to be done with 11 flashing and drainage panels. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is it being taken past 13 the hog racks to the back of the building, or emptied into 14 where the hog racks -- 15 MR. HOLEKAMP: Well, there are floor drains 16 in there, so it will probably go into one of those big 17 ground drains in that wash rack area. Those are all already 18 used for dumping the water off of those roofs. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This roof's going to 20 cant east to west; is that correct? 21 MR. HOLEKAMP: I'm sorry? East to west? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Going to cant east to 23 west. 24 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where's that water 11-22-04 68 1 going to go in relationship to the River Star Arts Park? 2 MR. HOLEKAMP: Oh, it will be on this side of 3 the road. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where's it going to 5 go? How are you going to take it off? 6 MR. HOLEKAMP: It's going to go to the back 7 of the barn to the ditch, and then go to Flat Rock Lake. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: When you're saying how's 9 it going to get there, right now the area floods, the whole 10 east side. 11 MR. HOLEKAMP: We're going to have to do some 12 landscaping to get it back there. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But that whole area 14 back there by the barbecue pits and the water tower and all 15 that, that gets inundated with water now. 16 MR. HOLEKAMP: A lot of that's from the 17 parking area. That's not from the roof. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How are you going to 19 get the water off the roof to where it needs to go, which is 20 the Guadalupe River? 21 MR. HOLEKAMP: Drains. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I think -- I 23 don't know if Commissioner Williams is on this line of 24 thought. My line of thought is, we're getting ready to 25 spend $150,000. This thing better not leak, and it better 11-22-04 69 1 drain off that property. That's -- that's what I'm saying. 2 And -- and I'm -- you know, we need to make sure that 3 somehow, whether it's in this proposal or we have a plan, 4 because we are dumping a huge amount of water onto that road 5 now. 6 MR. HOLEKAMP: Well -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On the road that goes 8 alongside the west side of the building. 9 MR. HOLEKAMP: You're correct. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We need to either make a 11 swell, get that water all out of there. 12 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And we need to figure out 14 what that's going to cost, 'cause that's not in these 15 numbers. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Commissioner, I won't 17 make any promises that if it doesn't work that way, I won't 18 come back and say, "I told you so." 19 MR. HOLEKAMP: The only thing I will tell you 20 is, we still got the same amount of roof. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, but it's flat 22 now. You're canting it; you're going to make sure it goes 23 off. It's coming down -- it's coming down at a greater 24 velocity. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It comes down onto the 11-22-04 70 1 taxpaying public now. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Some of it. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We want to -- let's 4 vote, Judge. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 6 comment? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 7 your right hand. 8 (Commissioners Baldwin and Nicholson voted in favor of the motion.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 10 (Commissioners Williams and Letz voted 11 against the motion.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Chair votes in the 13 affirmative. Motion carries. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait, wait, wait. Did 15 the County Judge vote? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He just did, real 17 quick. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: It was two-two. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did you get that down? 20 I want copies for all my friends. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He did it so quickly, 22 you could hardly see his hand go up and down. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a comment. My 24 vote against that was because I don't think we're ready to 25 start. I think we need to get this drainage item worked 11-22-04 71 1 out. I'm in favor of putting the roof on, but I think we're 2 pushing it. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm proud of you, 4 Judge. 5 MR. HOLEKAMP: Would it please the Court if I 6 tried to get the drainage issue resolved prior to commencing 7 on this project? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm not sure you're going to 9 know what the drainage issues are until you're further 10 along, to tell you the truth. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we are -- 12 we're -- we can figure out the amount of water coming off 13 that roof, and it's going to end up there. We require 14 drainage studies everywhere else for the public and for 15 developers. It's the same thing. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You got a court order. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Go for it. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Next item on the agenda, 19 consider and discuss approval of lease of four new Sheriff's 20 Office patrol units, and authorize the County Judge to sign 21 same, and approval of first year lease payment as budgeted. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: This is just -- 23 actually, a supplement to the lease that was done July 14th, 24 2000. This is just adding the new -- four new cars to it, 25 and we'll need a hand check or whatever for the amount of 11-22-04 72 1 $35,983.11. It's already in the budget for these items. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I faxed all this over to 4 Motley for him to look at. I just went down to his office 5 to see if he was there, and he's not in yet. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 9 approval of the agenda item. Any further question or 10 discussion? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Does anyone know what 12 the number is in the budget? The amount that is in the 13 budget to make this purchase? 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There is actually 15 44,000-something in our Capital Outlay for this. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I remember now. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The rest of that is for 18 the second payment later on in the year for the pickup. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 21 comments? All in favor of the agenda item? 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Next item 11-22-04 73 1 on the agenda is consider and discuss a salary supplement 2 for the Family and Consumer Science Agent position at the 3 Kerr County Extension Office. I don't see Mr. Walston here 4 today with us. Was he planning on being here? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not sure. I think we 6 can handle it without him being present. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I talked to him about it 9 and told him I'd put it on the agenda. I think his memo is 10 self-explanatory. It's just a matter of, you know, in 11 trying to get the best person to fill that position, he 12 feels that with the salary freeze that's going through the 13 Extension Office, that if the Court could provide a salary 14 supplement, it would enable them to, you know, sort of 15 attract a better candidate. This person works a lot with 16 the -- primarily with the youth -- or I won't say primarily; 17 about equal, probably, with the youth organizations, 4-H, as 18 well as other areas in the community. I guess when I was 19 talking to Roy about this, I was thinking in the back of my 20 mind about the juvenile detention facility, and we spend so 21 much time and money and effort on the troubled youth in the 22 community, that it -- for a very small amount of money, we 23 could do something that's positive to the positive youth in 24 the community. The amount that Roy and I talked about was 25 somewhere in the $3,000 to $4,000 range as a supplement this 11-22-04 74 1 year. We have that in our budget as a result of 2 Ms. Chapman's position not being filled for a while. It 3 would be a -- have a budget impact next year, but this year 4 it would be within the budget. And I'll make a motion to 5 offer a salary supplement of $3,000 for the Family and 6 Consumer Science Agent at the Extension Office. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll second it. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 9 approval of the agenda item. Up to three -- 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: $3,000. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: In the sum of $3,000. Any 12 further question or discussion? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That -- 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Go ahead, Buster. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That money is in the 16 budget due to an employee leaving earlier? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, Ms. Chapman's. We 18 budgeted to fill this as of October 1, and it probably will 19 not be filled until the end of December, so it's -- two 20 months of salary's not going to be paid. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And it's her position 22 that we're filling? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, that -- for that 24 position, yes. And I -- I think the -- my feeling is that 25 there's a condition with this; that this person that is 11-22-04 75 1 attracted has to have a background and a focus on youth. 2 That's my reason for pushing this, is to help that side of 3 that program, 4-H. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I don't know -- 5 okay, that's fine. I don't think that she did that that 6 much. Seemed like she helped with -- she handled older 7 folks' checkbooks and -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: She didn't, but that 9 position can. And work with -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. I agree with 11 what you're saying, if we can do that. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that's what I say; I 13 think it's conditioned upon the -- them improving the youth 14 side of that. And this supplement is not guaranteed if they 15 don't do that, if they bring a person in that doesn't do 16 that. And I think that's -- I would not be in favor of 17 increasing -- or keeping that supplement next year. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Two questions. What 19 is that salary that's currently available for that position? 20 And, secondly, is that totally funded by us, or is it 21 partially funded by Extension? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's partially 23 funded by Extension, and I'm not sure what the total salary 24 is, but the -- and I think Roy Walston's memo set out that 25 due to the salary freezes through the A & M system, it's 11-22-04 76 1 harder and harder to get people to take moves. And I think, 2 more and more, to get a real attractive candidate in this 3 county, they're supplementing these salaries. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Does this go through 5 Cheryl Mapston, or does Roy handle it? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: It will go through the 7 District Director. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: But, as I'm sure you recall, 10 the District Director has been pretty considerate of 11 allowing us to have a lot of input in her decision. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: The individual that -- that's 14 under consideration is an experienced Extension Agent, and 15 one that has had a lot of experience in 4-H and youth-type 16 projects, and that's a lot of the reason that they're 17 wanting to create an attraction to get that agent to come on 18 board here, as opposed to the current post. Any further 19 question or discussion on the motion? 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think it's 21 well-known that I don't have a lot of value for the work 22 product of this job. I don't -- doesn't have anything to do 23 with the individual performing it. It's just that I don't 24 think taxpayers ought to be spending their money on the kind 25 of things that this job produces, so I won't be voting for 11-22-04 77 1 it. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 4-H? You don't think we 3 should spend money on 4-H? 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's a lot of money 5 for a few children. But I -- I'm focusing mostly on the 6 work product I've seen, like the benefits of drinking red 7 wine and how to set a colorful dinner table. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: If I might make an 9 observation, and I've done it on numerous occasions 10 previously, as the primary juvenile judge in this county, I 11 don't recall having before me a single child subject to my 12 court's jurisdiction that's been actively involved in the 13 4-H program. I think the benefit to be derived from this 14 expenditure is considerably in excess of what's going to be 15 spent because of that, if for no other reason. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree with that. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or 18 comments? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 19 your right hand. 20 (Commissioners Baldwin, Williams, and Letz voted in favor of the motion.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 22 (Commissioner Nicholson voted against the 23 motion.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Commissioner, they 11-22-04 78 1 don't just exclusively talk about red wine, do they? I 2 mean -- 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, white wine's 4 not as good for you as red wine. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But they do talk about 6 white wine? I mean, I wouldn't want the County to be 7 involved in something where we're just kind of color-blind 8 about some things. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The article I read 10 was about red wine. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We need to take a look 12 at that over there. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I prefer the 14 chardonnay myself. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: The next agenda item is 16 consider and discuss approving the form contracts between 17 Kerr County and the County-sponsored entities, and authorize 18 the County Judge to sign same as they are returned by the 19 entities. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's see. We have 21 Dietert Claim, and we have what else? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Mitchell has all of the 23 original contracts. The one that you've got in your agenda 24 book is a sample. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 11-22-04 79 1 JUDGE TINLEY: For one of the agencies. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is just a 3 sample? The Dietert is just a sample? 4 MS. MITCHELL: Well, that's the correct one, 5 but, I mean, I only put one in there. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All these have been 7 approved by the County Attorney? 8 MS. MITCHELL: Yes, they have. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for approval of 10 the Alamo Regional Transit contract, K'Star contract, 11 Dietert Claim contract, Kid's Advocacy Place contract, Kerr 12 County Soil and Water Conservation District contract, Hill 13 Country Crisis Council contract, Hill Country 14 Court-Appointed Special Advocates, better known as CASA, and 15 Kerr Economic Development Foundation contract. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 18 approval of the contracts and authorize the Judge to sign 19 the same as they are returned. Any question or comment or 20 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 21 your right hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Item 11-22-04 80 1 13 is consider and discuss approving the form contract 2 between Kerr County and the volunteer fire departments 3 servicing Kerr County, and authorize County Judge to sign 4 the same. 5 MS. MITCHELL: Judge, on the volunteer fire 6 department contracts, David Motley e-mailed me and said that 7 he was looking at those and he didn't see any major changes, 8 but I have not heard back as of yet. He thought they were 9 okay, but he hasn't e-mailed me back on that, and he's not 10 in his office; I already tried calling. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Is this the same 13 contract that we signed with them last year? I think it is. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Should be. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is the amount the 16 same? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's see. 18 MS. MITCHELL: The amounts in there are from 19 the budget book that y'all budgeted. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Didn't we -- I probably 21 shouldn't be bringing this up. I think it was contentious 22 several years back. Don't we have an audit provision in all 23 these contracts as to the use of County funds? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Say it again? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Audit. 11-22-04 81 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Don't we have an audit 2 provision as to use of taxpayers' funds by these 3 departments? 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think Tommy -- is 5 Tommy here? I think Tommy said to us that they bring in 6 paid receipts. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 8 MR. TOMLINSON: It will be on the receipts. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: That's how they get around 10 that. In lieu of audit, he has to approve the prior 11 expenditure before he reimburses. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: I had a problem with part 13 of -- half of their funds. Most of the fire departments get 14 private money, and in the process of auditing, one had to 15 deal with the other, so some of the fire departments had a 16 problem with us auditing funds that they received from 17 another source. So, I think this is a way to circumvent 18 that problem. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move that we approve 20 the Kerr County volunteer fire department contracts. That 21 would include Castle Lake Volunteer Fire Department for 22 $1,000; Comfort, $13,000; Elm Pass, $13,000; Ingram, 23 $13,000; Tierra Linda, $1,000; Center Point, $13,000; 24 Divide, $13,000; Hunt -- zero? $13,000. That was a joke. 25 Mountain Home, $13,000; Turtle Creek, $13,000. 11-22-04 82 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oops, Junction, 3 $1,000. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 6 approval of the volunteer fire department contracts as 7 enumerated by Commissioner Baldwin. I assume that 8 authorizes me to sign them? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any further question or 11 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 12 your right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We're 17 now to the portion of the agenda -- we have three different 18 agenda items concerning the Juvenile Detention Facility. 19 While we reserve the right to go into executive session to 20 consider items that are permissible in executive session, I 21 think what I'll do in order to facilitate this thing is call 22 all three of those items, and we'll be open for the public 23 portion of it. Item 14 is to consider and discuss the 24 financial status and projections at the Juvenile Detention 25 Facility, and consider any budget amendments. Second is to 11-22-04 83 1 consider and discuss extension of temporary lease and 2 operating agreements at the Juvenile Detention Facility, and 3 lastly, to consider and discuss the status of the 4 acquisition of the Juvenile Detention Facility. I would 5 note that we've had two participation forms filed, and the 6 first that we had filed was Mr. B.A. Donelson, representing 7 First State Bank in Stratford, Texas. Mr. Donelson? Feel 8 free to come forward. 9 MR. DONELSON: If it's all right with you, if 10 I could follow after Mr. Malone? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Surely, that'll be 12 satisfactory. The other participation form that we have had 13 is Mr. Mike Malone with Vinson and Elkins, in his capacity 14 as legal counsel for the Bank of New York. Mr. Malone? 15 MR. MALONE: Thank you. Thank you, Judge. I 16 am Mike Malone. I'm with Vinson and Elkins. I'm a lawyer. 17 I'm here as counsel to the Bank of New York. As I think you 18 know, the Bank of New York is the trustee for the bonds, the 19 proceeds of which were used to construct the juvenile -- 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mr. Malone, will you 21 pull the microphone a little closer to you so we can hear 22 you? 23 MR. MALONE: Is that better? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Hope so. 25 MR. MALONE: All right. The trustee learned 11-22-04 84 1 of the financial circumstances of the detention center in 2 September, and we've been in continuous communication with 3 the bondholders since that time. The trustee and the 4 bondholders were very pleased to learn in October of your 5 plan to develop a means of refinancing the facility pursuant 6 to which the bondholders would be taken out substantially at 7 par. And, by contrast, as you can imagine, we were -- we 8 were very disappointed to learn in November of circumstances 9 which called that plan to refinance into question. I think 10 it's fair to say that the bondholders were shocked at that 11 development. And, at their request, we put together a 12 conference call of all the holders which we conducted last 13 Tuesday, and at that meeting we were requested to start some 14 sort of an investigation as to how these bonds came to be in 15 the situation that they're in. I'm not at liberty at this 16 point to identify the holders to you, but I think you know 17 some of them. Some of them are here in the meeting with us 18 today. 19 But I want to make it clear that the Bank of 20 New York is not a bondholder in this financing. The Bank of 21 New York serves in an administrative capacity as the 22 corporate trustee. These bonds are held almost entirely by 23 community banks, all of which are located -- all but one of 24 which I believe are located here in Texas. These -- these 25 bankers are following developments here very closely, 11-22-04 85 1 because, among other things, they've got obligations within 2 their banks to report to the various committees and to their 3 Board of Directors, and, for that matter, to state 4 regulators as to the quality of the investments and problems 5 that have occurred with respect to this financing. So, as I 6 say, the trustee's been asked to institute an investigation 7 to try to figure out what's going on here. 8 I then questioned myself, well, how do I get 9 that done? I've been working with a couple of folks in our 10 Austin office that have experience in FOIA requests, Freedom 11 of Information Act requests, and they're in the process of 12 drafting those requests so that we can begin to gather 13 information to get into a position to answer the 14 bondholders' questions. As I see this process starting, I 15 -- I have to express some degree of trepidation. You hope 16 that what you do as a lawyer brings value to a transaction. 17 This is the sort of work which, you know, may or may not 18 benefit the holders ultimately. It's something that we've 19 got to do, but it -- but it may -- may likely require some 20 significant amount of time, and therefore expense, and we 21 assume not just our time and expense, but -- but your time 22 and your staff as we try to parse through the history of 23 this thing and get into a position to answer questions. So, 24 while we're not lazy persons, we abhor waste. I can tell, 25 based on the tenor of the conversation this morning, that 11-22-04 86 1 you're sensitive to that too, and so we want to see if 2 there's a way that we can avoid that if at all possible. 3 So, I'm here to make three points. One is, I 4 want to put a face on the bondholders to make sure you 5 understand that the people that are affected by this are -- 6 are local community bankers here in the state of Texas. 7 Rightly or wrongly, these bankers looked at this investment 8 as one that would be backed by Kerr County. They were very 9 surprised to learn that Kerr County has elected to issue the 10 notice of nonappropriation. And they've got a 11 responsibility to their banks and to the state to understand 12 how the wheels came off, and therefore, we're compelled to 13 be involved in this investigation if we can't figure out a 14 way to -- to resolve these issues. So, we're very hopeful 15 that the County will either decide to appropriate the funds 16 necessary to keep this financing on track, and make the 17 lease payments, or go forward with the plan that you 18 discussed in September to issue the Certificates of 19 Obligation to refinance this thing, and take the bondholders 20 out at par. If -- if you can't get to that point, as I say, 21 we've got no choice but to go forward with our investigation 22 and get into a position to answer these questions. 23 And I'll tell you that some of the questions 24 that surfaced at the bondholder meeting are a concern that 25 Kerr County-initiated inmates are being placed in facilities 11-22-04 87 1 outside the county. You know, the assumption from the 2 bondholder perspective is you've got inmates that are going 3 to need to be in a facility; that they go into the facility 4 in Kerr County to help provide funding to justify keeping 5 these bonds in place. They also want us to look into the 6 cost of the facility. We're looking at -- the newer 7 facility came in at something like $100,000 per bed, and our 8 understanding is that similar facilities can and have been 9 constructed for less money than that. So, they want us to 10 be in a position to explain, you know, how those funds were 11 invested, how the contracts were awarded, that -- that sort 12 of thing. 13 And then the third area that we know we'll 14 have on our radar screen is to look at operations during the 15 time that these bonds have been in place, and be in a 16 position to explain how the facilities have been run and how 17 they've been supervised. There will be other questions I 18 know that will -- that will arise as we get through this 19 process, but that's what we're looking at as of today. 20 Again, this is not work that we're anxious to get into, but 21 the bondholders want you to be aware of the position that 22 they will be placed in if we can't get these -- these bonds 23 back on track one way or the other, and on behalf of the 24 bondholders, we -- we urge you to do that. Thank you for 25 your time. If you've got any questions of me, I'd be happy 11-22-04 88 1 to stay here and visit, or I'll sit down. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have a question -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I do too. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- if I might. I mean, 5 at our last meeting -- I know you weren't present, and -- 6 but I know some of the bondholders were. I was under the 7 impression that we were likely going to receive some sort of 8 a -- you know, an offer from the bondholders. I mean, 9 clearly, this facility doesn't work going forward, and it 10 seems like we're going the opposite direction. 11 MR. MALONE: We discussed that potential at 12 our meeting last Tuesday, and, you know, we don't have any 13 basis to formulate an offer. You know, the bondholders know 14 nothing more than what was in the offering materials when 15 they made the investment. If -- if there is to be an offer 16 made, it seems to us that the County is in possession of 17 institutional knowledge with respect to this facility, and 18 in a better position to gauge what the -- what debt service 19 could be supported by operations, both now and as you hope 20 to operate it going forward. So, I think the bondholders 21 would certainly be amenable to, you know, hearing a proposal 22 from the County, but any number that they would propose 23 would just be something that would come out of the air. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, thank you. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Any investigation 11-22-04 89 1 that might be undertaken -- is one being authorized and 2 initiated by Bank of New York? Is that correct? 3 MR. MALONE: Bank of New York, on direction 4 of the bondholders, would -- would pursue remedies. And, at 5 this stage, the remedy that we've been asked to undertake is 6 just to investigate the facts and be in a position to enable 7 the bondholders to report to their committees and to their 8 boards. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And that would be an 10 investigation of Kerr County Juvenile Detention Facilities 11 Corporation, or Kerr County? 12 MR. MALONE: Well, I guess it would be -- it 13 could conceivably be all three, including the Juvenile Board 14 that's been responsible for supervising and operating the 15 facility. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And it would be 17 conducted at whose expense? 18 MR. MALONE: Well, I suppose that remains to 19 be seen. Ultimately, the fees and expenses of the trustee 20 are secured by the trust estate, you know, which is the 21 facility itself. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Malone, have you or any of 24 the bondholders, to your knowledge, made any requests for 25 information to this date? 11-22-04 90 1 MR. MALONE: No, sir. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: I assume that was public -- 3 under the Public Information Act, we're talking about? 4 MR. MALONE: There has been no formal request 5 made under the Freedom of Information Act. We're in the 6 process of drafting those as we speak. We have made 7 informal investigations, had discussion -- you and I have 8 been on the telephone on one occasion. I visited with -- 9 with the bond counsel, spoken to the financial adviser, and 10 also spoken with the woman that is, I guess, the Executive 11 Director of the facility. So, we're gathering notes, but no 12 FOIA request has been issued to-date. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. With respect to the 14 informal request, be they verbally, e-mail, or any other, 15 other than a formal request under the -- under the Public 16 Information Act, has there been an instance with respect to 17 either you or any of the bondholders that requested 18 information informally that was not provided to you? 19 MR. MALONE: I can't say that there has been, 20 no. There's been good cooperation to-date. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. From a timeline 22 standpoint, do you have an estimate of -- of what this is 23 going to take in terms of time? 24 MR. MALONE: The investigations? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. 11-22-04 91 1 MR. MALONE: I really don't. As I say, 2 there's a couple of folks in our Austin office that work in 3 this area. I've got minimal experience with respect to it, 4 and so I wouldn't be in a position to -- to guess, but I -- 5 I would expect that if we don't get some requests out this 6 week, they'd certainly be out the next week. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, I just asked our 8 administrative assistant to try to find the County Attorney. 9 I'm a little uncomfortable, until I visit with him a little 10 bit, of really going much further at the moment, because I 11 think there's some other issues. I just have -- I have some 12 questions. I mean, 'cause it sounds more like a visit with 13 the County Attorney. So, anyway, I just put that on the 14 table before we go much further. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I'd like to 16 have a visit with the County Attorney, and I would like to 17 visit with the County Attorney-elect also. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the concern I have -- 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Because we are 20 changing County Attorneys, Mr. Malone, first of the year. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a concern from a time 22 frame standpoint. We currently have that facility in 23 operation, and if -- if that facility ceases operation 24 because of a noncontinuation of the lease and operating 25 agreements or any other reason, I see it as having a 11-22-04 92 1 material effect upon the value of the facility, and the -- 2 the assets that are under the trust -- trust agreements and 3 the financing documents. My concern is -- and, you know, 4 it's not a concern necessarily from our end, but do you and 5 your bondholders have the luxury to -- to utilize this time 6 for that purpose? I realize you may say, well, you know, we 7 can't afford not to, but -- 8 MR. MALONE: Well, it's not a process that 9 would be conducted in a vacuum. We could continue to 10 communicate with the County about alternatives that are 11 available to preserve the asset as a going concern. I think 12 your point may be that it would have more value as a going 13 concern than as an empty facility, and while I have no 14 expertise on that, I certainly wouldn't disagree with it. 15 So, you know, my point is that we're not going to launch 16 this investigation and then refuse to communicate. We'll -- 17 we'll hear any reasonable offer and carry that to the 18 bondholders, see if there's a way to get this thing 19 resolved. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, it seems that one 21 of the items on the agenda also is the -- I guess the 22 extension of the operating agreement. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And, you know, I think my 25 view, and I think the majority of the Court's view, has been 11-22-04 93 1 that we try to keep it open as long as we can to try to work 2 something out. But there's a limit to that, because, I 3 mean, the County is -- is spending taxpayer's money just 4 putting -- I won't say throwing it away, but, you know, 5 we're spending money out there on a daily basis. And, in my 6 mind, we were, at this meeting, going to make a decision 7 whether we were going to try to resolve it by the end of 8 December or -- and, really, an extension into January wasn't 9 even a consideration at our last meeting. And I guess I -- 10 Mr. Malone's opinion -- I mean, it seems like they're almost 11 asking us to shut it down, and then go through all the data 12 and see if it can ever be reopened. 13 MR. MALONE: I don't think we're here to ask 14 you to shut it down. I think if -- if the decision is that 15 you're not going to fund the shortfall through tax dollars, 16 then before we took -- took the facility, by agreement or 17 foreclosure, we would want it empty. We're not in a 18 position to operate a juvenile detention facility. We just 19 don't have the gears to do it, so -- but, in the meantime, 20 and in recognition of the fact that the facility may have 21 more value as an operating entity, we're here to encourage 22 you to appropriate the funds to keep the facility open. I 23 think the thing that surprises the bondholders and other 24 observers in this process -- and we understand that, you 25 know, the State has shackled you with an unfunded mandate in 11-22-04 94 1 terms of the cost of operating the facility. We're also 2 aware that funding available through the State has been 3 reduced, and it's a bad situation. But the thing that 4 surprises, I think, the holders is that you wouldn't decide 5 to go ahead and appropriate the funds to keep the facility 6 in place in order to preserve the value -- or to preserve 7 your ratings for other bond issues going forward. In other 8 words, if you look at what's required to -- to be applied in 9 terms of tax dollars versus what it's going to cost the next 10 time you need to go to the markets for another bond issue -- 11 you know, the markets have a long memory on these things, 12 and it appears to us, you know, that this is -- this would 13 be money well spent in order to avoid very significant 14 increases in the cost of credit in the future. Other 15 counties have been in this same situation, I just learned 16 this morning, and made, you know, the tough decision to go 17 ahead and refinance their bonds to preserve their credit 18 rating. Because it may cost "X" now, but if you don't spend 19 that, it's going to cost X-squared in the future. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just -- it goes the 21 other direction as well. Other counties have -- I mean, 22 there's an argument both ways, I guess. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Are you familiar with the Hays 24 County situation with respect to their juvenile detention 25 facility, Mr. Malone? 11-22-04 95 1 MR. MALONE: I learned secondhand this 2 morning that Hays County has decided to issue Certificates 3 of Obligation and refinance those bonds. Now, as I say, 4 that is secondhand information. I just pass it along for 5 what it's worth. But that was an example cited to me of 6 another similar situation. Unfunded mandate from the State, 7 cash crunch. You know, what's the course of least 8 resistance? Where do we incur the least damage over the 9 long run? I think they decided they want to refinance those 10 bonds, preserve their rating. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Did your -- did your 12 investigation of that situation reveal that there was 13 nonappropriation in Hays County? 14 MR. MALONE: No, sir, I have not made an 15 investigation. What I'm reporting to you is what I heard in 16 the hall as we were waiting for our opportunity to speak 17 with you. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We could probably get 19 a confirmation of that from our financial adviser. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, the County 21 Attorney is not to be found, but I'm -- to me, I really want 22 to talk to him. So -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The Auditor has his 24 hand up. 25 MR. TOMLINSON: I just have a request. If -- 11-22-04 96 1 if we do have -- if there is a formal request under the Open 2 Records Act, there's a 10-day limitation on -- under 3 statutory limitation, for -- to be able to retrieve that 4 information. I foresee that -- that that might be a problem 5 with -- with the time limit. So, if possible, if the 6 requester can -- could waive that 10-day request, it will be 7 helpful. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- maybe there's 9 legal reasons why they want to do it formally. I don't know 10 why we wouldn't let them -- you know, I mean, within 11 reason -- have all the information that they request. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: That was the point of my 13 question to Mr. Malone. I -- as to whether or not there 14 have been previous informal requests, and -- and that hadn't 15 been responded to in a proper and timely manner. I 16 certainly -- if it's public information, I want you to have 17 everything that you're entitled to. And if you'll -- as 18 long as it's an intelligible request that we can determine 19 what you're asking, we'll do our best, on a timely basis, to 20 gather it up and get it to you. That's always been my 21 position with regard to public information. You don't have 22 to make a formal request. It doesn't even have to be in 23 writing, just as long as we are aware of what you -- what 24 you're asking, and number two, that it's, in fact, public 25 information. 11-22-04 97 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's kind of my view. 2 I mean, I don't -- I'm certainly not trying to keep anything 3 from you. I want you to have as much as you can, because 4 the sooner we can get you, you know, information you need, 5 the sooner we can hopefully get this resolved. 6 MR. MALONE: Well, I'm not trying to burden 7 this process with unnecessary structure or expense, for that 8 matter. I will discuss with the holders at our next meeting 9 the -- what I understand to be the proposal that we get this 10 investigation done on a less formal basis, and see if that 11 meets their approval. As I say, I just -- I started down 12 this process just not knowing how to conduct an 13 investigation of a deal like this, and then talking to my 14 partners, and the FOIA requests are the -- the method that's 15 available to us, and I think a typical approach. So, we -- 16 we've got that process started, and I just wanted you to 17 have that as one of the factors to consider as you decide 18 how best to move forward. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mr. Malone, let me 20 ask you a question. I think I understood you to suggest 21 that the bondholders would like to see the operation 22 continue during this period of time. Is that what I'm -- 23 did I hear that correctly? 24 MR. MALONE: I think that's fair. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Does that mean, in 11-22-04 98 1 your mind, the County continuing to underwrite the 2 day-to-day operational expenses? Or does that entail, in 3 your mind, an appropriation of a bond payment? 4 MR. MALONE: We have in -- in place a 5 moratorium agreement, I guess an extension of the initial 6 moratorium agreement that we signed, that runs through the 7 end of December. And under that agreement, the County 8 has -- has agreed to step in and keep the lease in place and 9 continue to fund it while we try to get our legs under us 10 and decide how best to address this problem. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That expires 12 December 31st, with 30 days cancellation notice on the part 13 of the County; is that correct? 14 MR. MALONE: That's correct, right. You 15 know, I don't know the view of the holders as to the effect 16 of that moratorium, but my assumption would be that as long 17 as there's some progress being made toward a decision that 18 might lead you to the same place that we understand Hays 19 County came out, that, yes, we'd want to keep the process -- 20 we'd want to keep the facility open. We'd want the County 21 to continue to operate. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think it's 23 important -- in my mind, it's important, because it's one 24 thing for us to agree to continue the operation, but I would 25 not want it in any -- if we went along with that, I would 11-22-04 99 1 not want it implied that by doing so, we have agreed to 2 appropriation for bond and debt service that we had 3 heretofore declined to make. 4 MR. MALONE: Well, I think that's a factor 5 that can be taken into account as we write whatever 6 agreement is written. I certainly understand your position. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I guess my question at this 8 point is -- and, certainly, I'm -- Mr. Donelson, I want you 9 to have the opportunity to be heard, if we have no more 10 questions for Mr. Malone. And then I guess my question then 11 is, do we have anything additional to discuss with regard to 12 these three items in an open session format? Or whether or 13 not we should finish up the rest of the agenda, then go on 14 to executive, or vice versa. Any -- any further questions 15 for Mr. Malone? Thank you, Mr. Malone. 16 MR. MALONE: Thank you. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: We appreciate you being 18 available to us. Mr. Donelson? 19 MR. DONELSON: Yes, sir. Gentlemen, I thank 20 you again for allowing me to visit with you. I am a 21 bondholder, so I have probably a different view than some of 22 the -- even Mr. Malone. When we left here about a month 23 ago, we thought we were going to do something. It sounded 24 great for all of us, and -- and I went home, and then heard 25 later that things had changed. Let me speak to the time 11-22-04 100 1 issue just a minute. One of our problems has been getting 2 to find out who the bondholders are. It's incredibly hard, 3 under the laws today, to find out who the bondholders were, 4 so we were just -- I think we had 90 percent of the bonds 5 represented in that meeting last Tuesday. And -- and, of 6 course, that's the first time we had an opportunity to have 7 somewhat of a consensus. Now, based on that, we formed our 8 opinions, and I think, as Mr. Malone said, there was -- we 9 didn't have anything that we felt like we should offer to 10 the Commissioners, because, there again, y'all have more 11 information. Not that you haven't been willing to provide 12 it, but we just have not had an opportunity to ask for it or 13 know what to ask for. 14 So, we're at a point now where we think the 15 players are pretty much in place for the -- from the 16 bondholder standpoint. We'll be able to make a decision on 17 wherever we go, whether it's investigation or if y'all shot 18 us a deal or whatever. I think we now have the ability to 19 make decisions that we haven't had beforehand. I will also 20 say that time is all our enemies, you know, from the 21 standpoint of Ms. Harris, who can't operate the facility the 22 way she would like to because of the uncertainty, and I 23 think that's understandable by all of us. It's -- time's 24 our enemy from the standpoint that we now have a trustee, 25 and we're spending some money. And I do know, Mr. Williams, 11-22-04 101 1 who's going to pay that, and that won't be the County; 2 that's going to be me. And, so, we think it's important to 3 decide something quickly for everybody, for Kerr County. I 4 will say this, and I'm probably stepping out of line by 5 saying it, but I've been a little bit surprised at not 6 hearing more from the position of the Juvenile Board. You 7 know, I -- seems to me like they ought to have a place in 8 this arena too, whether they're supporting you to go forward 9 or not. And -- and I don't live in Kerr County, so they 10 can't do anything to me. But it just -- it would be nice to 11 have the whole consensus of everybody, that being the 12 Juvenile Board, the County, and the bondholders, to get us 13 through that. And that basically is my -- are my comments. 14 We bought this bond in good faith. We understood that it -- 15 while we saw that it's not a direct obligation of the 16 County, it appeared to us that the lease was, and it's been 17 very surprising to us in a couple of years that this thing 18 has deteriorated so fast. And I don't -- you know, that's 19 -- that's probably part of what we're interested in from the 20 standpoint of the investigation. Okay? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Anybody have any questions for 22 Mr. Donelson? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have a couple of 24 comments, though. I wish I could hug you. 25 MR. DONELSON: Is there any press here? 11-22-04 102 1 (Laughter.) 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Does that mean you 3 want to do it or not? Let's give them time to get cameras. 4 But you're absolutely right. We -- we would like to know 5 what the position of the Juvenile Board is as well. I've 6 called on them many times to explain to the taxpayers of 7 Kerr County what has happened -- what has happened with this 8 thing. We have voted -- we have spent, to-date, a little 9 over $200,000 of taxpayers' money to keep this thing open, 10 and I see here that we have some bills to pay today of 11 almost $16,000 more. And if -- if the board would come 12 along and explain to the taxpayers -- not to you, not to me, 13 but the taxpayers -- of what happened to this thing. And 14 all -- all we hear from them is that the State changed their 15 funding, and -- and some mean old agency has come in and 16 done something; I don't know what it is, but it's not a -- 17 it's not a management problem at all. But when I see that 18 the former director out there, that her last paycheck was 19 $11,390 for work she's done, it seems -- that's a management 20 problem. There is no possible way. And I'm not addressing 21 you. I'm kind of addressing these other guys. But -- 22 MR. DONELSON: Well -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- there is more 24 problems with this thing than a '47 Plymouth, I can tell you 25 that. And we have -- we've waded -- waded through all of 11-22-04 103 1 these problems and kept spending taxpayers' money, and I'll 2 be damned, here we are today and we still don't have a 3 solution. And so we're -- we're going to be asked to 4 continue spending taxpayers' money. I, for one -- it's a 5 bad investment. I mean, I was elected by the people, not to 6 get along with you, not to get along with the New York bank 7 or some lawyer from Dallas, Texas. They didn't elect me to 8 get along with the County Judge. They elected me as -- in a 9 representative government, to represent them in their 10 finances and their business -- daily business, and I see 11 this as a major, major bad investment for them. So, far as 12 I'm concerned, we can rock along through December 31, and 13 we'll see you guys some other time. 14 MR. DONELSON: I think you can probably count 15 on that. I mean, seriously, and it's a serious problem. I 16 know for every one of you it is. I don't know -- I can't 17 evaluate what it is to your community. I just know the 18 obligation that -- we put up a lot of money based on a lot 19 of people's opinions, and we'd hoped to get it back. Thank 20 you. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It certainly wasn't 22 this Commissioners Court's opinions, though, that made you 23 make that purchase. 24 MR. DONELSON: I'll let y'all -- no, I 25 understand. I'm a grown boy. 11-22-04 104 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Donelson. In 2 response to Commissioner Baldwin, I'm the chairman of the 3 Juvenile Board, and I have told this Court previously, and 4 I'll tell them again today, that the Juvenile Board has no 5 independent source of revenue other than what is generated 6 from that facility, so we're not in a position to direct 7 which direction this thing goes. 8 MR. DONELSON: May I comment to that? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: With regard to the information 10 that -- that is in-hand by this Court, I don't know where 11 Mr. Baldwin got that information about the former director's 12 paycheck. I made inquiry of -- of the Auditor here, oh, a 13 couple of weeks ago, I guess, as to what inquiries, if any, 14 members of the Court have made to him about the operational 15 aspects of the finances of the juvenile facility. His 16 response to me was that when there was -- it became a 17 certain amount of public information about allegations of 18 wrongdoing out there last year, that Commissioner Williams 19 made one inquiry as to whether or not the Auditor felt the 20 census was going to be affected. Other than that, as of a 21 couple weeks ago, those were the only -- that was the only 22 inquiry made. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, I -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: That information is available, 25 has been available to any member of the public. Certainly, 11-22-04 105 1 there's not specific information available as to the 2 individual residents because of confidentiality reasons, but 3 the operational aspects, the budgets, the operating 4 statements, the expenditures being made, that's available to 5 any member of the public. It's available to any member of 6 this Court, any elected official or department head in this 7 county, and all they need to do is ask for it. Just like 8 the suggestion made to Mr. Malone a little bit -- excuse me, 9 a little bit ago, if there's something he wants, if he'll 10 just let us know what it is, we'll do our best to get it to 11 you. I've heard the allegation that the -- that the 12 Juvenile Board hasn't been forthcoming with information, and 13 if you haven't got any information, all I can say is, it's 14 your own damn fault. It's there. If you want something, 15 ask for it. You'll get it. But -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's not true. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: But I'm not going to sit here 18 and be beat up on because I didn't trip somebody in the 19 middle of the street and hand them a wheelbarrow full of 20 information. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, your -- your 22 statements are incorrect. One, I've talked to the Auditor 23 about the facility and the financial situation. Whether he 24 -- you phrased the question or he didn't remember it, I 25 don't know. Two, you came to this Court after the problem 11-22-04 106 1 was developed out there. I -- and this Court has been very 2 irritated with the Juvenile Board, that we were not given 3 any warning until basically, like, two weeks before the 4 recommendation of the Juvenile Board was nonappropriation of 5 funds. If that's being forthcoming with this Court, that's 6 something new to me. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, that's -- you 8 need to correct the statement, too, Judge -- I made more 9 than one query of the Auditor, because people on the street 10 would ask me, "What's the deal with the juvenile detention 11 center?" But that's academic; that's neither here nor 12 there. I think it's -- it's highly unusual that any of us 13 would be able to read in a bond trading publication that, 14 over the course of two years, 800,000-plus dollars in 15 reserves were dissipated. That wasn't general information 16 made public to the taxpaying public in Kerr County, but it 17 was made public to those who deal in bonds on a routine 18 basis. That's very interesting. And if it triggers some 19 queries, then God love them; go get it. Let's find out why. 20 Because I think what Commissioner Baldwin said earlier, 21 Judge -- and not necessarily a reflection on you, but there 22 were some systemic management problems. There were exterior 23 forces that probably complicated the exterior -- the 24 systemic management problem. And the confluence of all that 25 is on this desk today, and it has been for the last two 11-22-04 107 1 months, and it ain't going away. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, there's no question but 3 what there were a lot of different factors that came to 4 bear, and I think when Judge Ables appeared before the 5 Juvenile Probation Commission in Austin in September, he 6 called it the -- all of these factors coming together 7 constituted a perfect storm which brought us to where we 8 are. But we are where we are. The information is public. 9 You gentlemen and anyone else is welcome to it, to the 10 extent it's public information. We'll maintain the 11 confidentiality that we're required to under the Family Code 12 for juveniles, but other than that, anything's public. 13 Anybody -- 14 MR. DONELSON: Judge, can I clarify my 15 comment just a minute? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, sir. 17 MR. DONELSON: What I was saying about the 18 county -- or the juvenile facility is, I just hope they 19 would be supportive of going forward, is what my deal is, 20 and that they would be in there and -- I mean, they 21 apparently believe in that, and I hope that group would join 22 us all in trying to keep this alive. But that's what it is. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, Mr. Motley is in 24 the courtroom now, and, you know, if the Court doesn't have 25 any objection, I'd like -- really like to go in executive 11-22-04 108 1 session and visit with him a few minutes. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anyone else have 3 anything to offer right now with respect to the open session 4 forum? At this point -- 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The Auditor has 6 something. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Tommy? 8 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, are we going to have 9 another meeting this month, the corporation? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm not sure yet. We've got 11 one scheduled for December 1. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, there's an item in 13 there -- an item about a budget amendment. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: I would have more -- I'd have 16 a more definitive answer about a budget amendment at a later 17 date if -- if the Court amended it. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm not sure what, if any, 19 action we're going to need to take on that item. It's there 20 in case any action was needed. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: But I -- but today, I don't 22 have a -- a definitive amount, and so if it's possible that 23 the Court would have another -- another meeting before -- 24 before the next payroll, then I could do that. Or we can -- 25 I can make an estimate today, if that's what you want me to 11-22-04 109 1 do. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we're going to be 3 -- I mean, my thought is that it's 11:30 now. We go in 4 executive session, then break for lunch, and come back at 5 1:00 or 1:15 and continue, probably in open session. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: That's my sense of it also. 7 Any -- anything else that needs to be in open session at 8 this time? If not, we will go into recess on the open 9 session, and go into executive or closed session. 10 (Discussion off the record.) 11 (The open session was closed at 11:34 a.m., and an Executive Session was held, the 12 transcript of which is contained in a separate document.) 13 - - - - - - - - - - 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's come back to 15 order in open session. It is now 2:40 in the afternoon, and 16 we're back in open session. Does any member of the Court 17 have anything to offer with respect to any of the agenda 18 items that were under discussion previously, or as discussed 19 in closed session? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No good options here. 21 Okay, I'll make a motion that we offer the bondholders 22 1.75 -- $1,750,000, conditioned that we -- the County is 23 able to issue new investment-grade debt in that amount, and 24 that the County receives a full release to all parties 25 involved on any further action. 11-22-04 110 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There may be some 2 other conditions. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And probably some other 4 conditions that our bond counsel -- 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Any other conditions 6 we talked about, Judge? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Comprehensive release between 8 all parties, agreement of all bondholders, other reasonable 9 requirements as may be required by -- reasonably required by 10 County's attorneys. And did you want to put a response fuse 11 on that? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, time. We need 13 a time for response. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Time of response is that 16 there is no motion to extend the -- what's the other thing? 17 -- the moratorium agreement. So, basically, it's until next 18 Monday; it's on the table. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Any 21 discussion? I assume the motion included the matters which 22 I delineated also? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: As did your second? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Beg pardon? 11-22-04 111 1 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion included the 2 matters I delineated? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. All right. Any -- any 5 question or discussion? All in favor of that motion, 6 signify by raising your right hand. 7 (Commissioners Williams and Letz voted in favor of the motion.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 9 (Commissioners Baldwin and Nicholson voted 10 against the motion.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: I will vote in favor of the 12 motion. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's two in one day. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Two votes in one day. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Do we have any other business 17 to consider with the remaining agenda items? Any other -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's it. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's it. I think we're 20 done. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's move on to 22 Section 4 of the agenda, if we could, please. Is the 23 Auditor here? Great, okay. 24 (Discussion off the record.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Tom. Appreciate 11-22-04 112 1 it. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What are we doing? 3 Paying the bills? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: That's where we are. First 5 item. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I move we pay the 7 bills. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second, with some 9 questions. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 11 payment of the bills, with questions. Commissioner Baldwin? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. My question 13 is on Page 16. That would be the Juvenile Detention bills. 14 I've gone through here, and the end of last week I had 15 gotten one kind of ugly phone call and one very nice phone 16 call that we -- from some folks, and they want to know where 17 their money is. One is over six months old. And I -- I 18 think that, in our approval of picking up the tab for the 19 juvenile facility, to the tune of a little over $200,000, 20 I'm thinking that we have voted to pay everything we've been 21 asked to pay. Now -- now we're having bill collectors -- 22 they called me. I think everybody in here got a message, 23 but I -- I called them back and talked to them, and I'm just 24 kind of wondering, why aren't we paying our bills? I don't 25 know how old -- how old the dentist bill is. It's over 11-22-04 113 1 $2,000, though. But this one OB/GYN -- did I say that 2 right? 3 MS. HARRIS: Yes, you did. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is over six months 5 old. It's a little over $500. And why -- why haven't we 6 paid them, and why aren't they in here? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why weren't they in 8 there before? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why haven't we paid 10 these bills? Now we're having this ugly thing -- or I'm 11 having this ugly thing with this juvenile detention 12 facility -- 13 MR. TOMLINSON: Solved that problem. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- and now -- and now 15 bill collectors are calling the Commissioners. I don't get 16 it. 17 MR. TOMLINSON: I solved the problem today. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pardon? 19 MR. TOMLINSON: I solved the problem today. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is it -- 21 MR. TOMLINSON: The bills are still not -- 22 the bill that you're talking about is not in this group of 23 bills. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 25 MR. TOMLINSON: But it is in our system. 11-22-04 114 1 We -- we date-stamped the bill that you're talking about on 2 November the 17th. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 4 MR. TOMLINSON: That's when we got it. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where was it for the five 6 and a half months before we got it? 7 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, the -- the issue of 8 medical bills is -- from a mechanical or a procedural 9 standpoint, is very cumbersome, because we -- we have paper 10 trails both directions between us -- between my office, the 11 facility, and provider on a constant basis. And the reason 12 is that when -- when a -- when a detainee goes to a 13 physician or the hospital, the facility okays that -- that 14 treatment with the county the child is from. Once the 15 service is provided, the facility gets the bill. All right. 16 We hold the county responsible -- I mean the sending county 17 responsible for the invoice. So, what's happened in the 18 past is -- is that we -- we have not paid the bill, knowing 19 that the child's family has insurance. What's happened in 20 the past also is that we -- we paid the bill immediately 21 upon receipt. Once the bill gets to the sending county, the 22 county either pays us or pays the -- the hospital directly 23 or the provider directly, or -- or the child's insurance 24 provider pays the vendor directly. Then we have this paper 25 trail of checks coming back to us because we've overpaid 11-22-04 115 1 them. So, it -- I've had many visits with Sid Peterson 2 Hospital and with other vendors on this very issue. It's a 3 frustrating thing, and -- and gradually we're -- we're 4 trying to work this out. Prior to -- prior to the Court 5 deciding to make -- to subsidize the operations, if I were 6 to get a bill in the office, I would have written a check 7 for it that day. We didn't get the bill until after -- this 8 last one that you're talking about, until the 17th of 9 November. Well, it was prior to the cutoff for today's 10 bills, so we won't pay it until the second week in December. 11 And those are the kind of issues that we -- that we're 12 dealing with. And, I mean, I've apologized to vendors. 13 I've -- I've been trying to be very diplomatic with all of 14 them to try to get them to understand this is the situation. 15 I mean -- I mean, there wasn't any reason for them to call 16 you. I mean, I -- I handled the bill today with -- with the 17 person at the doctor's office. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did you pay the bill? 19 MR. TOMLINSON: What? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did you pay the bill? 21 MR. TOMLINSON: Not personally, no. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I didn't ask you if 23 you personally did. See, Tommy's still mad at me from 24 lunch; he jumped all over me. 25 MR. TOMLINSON: But I told them that -- 11-22-04 116 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is the bill paid? Are 2 they going to call me back? 3 MR. TOMLINSON: No. They're -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What about the other 5 one? 6 MR. TOMLINSON: I haven't seen it yet. I 7 don't know what bill you're talking about. I don't -- I 8 have not seen a bill from a dentist for $2,000. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, you know, the -- 10 we laugh all the way through this thing, but it is not 11 funny. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: I know. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It is not funny when I 14 get a call from a bill collector on the Juvenile Detention 15 Facility. There's not a damn thing funny about that at all. 16 It just drives me up a wall. I mean, I apologized, and I 17 assured them that they would get paid and all. 18 MR. TOMLINSON: I've heard more of those 19 conversations probably than you have, because I talk to them 20 all the time. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. You've been 22 responsible for the juvenile facility all this time, too. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: And I paid them. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm a County 25 Commissioner that didn't have anything to do with it until 11-22-04 117 1 September 1. That's what I'm talking about. 2 MR. TOMLINSON: And we've paid them when we 3 receive them. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, these people 5 need to be paid, and I don't think that these men sitting at 6 this table need to be getting phone calls from -- 7 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, I don't either. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- from providers in 9 our own community. I mean, that's -- this is not a good 10 thing. But other than that, I'm happy. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, wait. While we're 12 on that -- how do we handle -- I'm looking at the Sheriff. 13 How do we handle -- the same situation has to happen at the 14 jail. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's handled a little 16 bit differently in the jail. Our computer system -- first 17 we determine -- we have had meetings with Sid Peterson and 18 the providers, so we determine if it's an incident that 19 occurred inside the jail, you know. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can we turn that 21 thing down so it doesn't hum? 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If it's a longstanding 23 illness -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's worse. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There you go. 11-22-04 118 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That got it. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. Now, just 3 talk a little louder. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. If it's a 5 longstanding illness, an illness that occurred before, we 6 have a form we fill out when the person goes to the hospital 7 or to the doctor saying that they're responsible for it and 8 not the County, and we've got a pretty good agreement with 9 them that they do that. If it's something that occurred in 10 the -- in the jail that we're responsible for, then that 11 form says that we're responsible for it, and they send us a 12 bill. At the same time, our nursing staff keeps them all 13 signed up for indigent care, if they qualify for it, so we 14 keep that going. If it's an out-of-county -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, go ahead. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If it's an out-of-county 17 inmate, we make the decision. Because they're being housed 18 in our -- in our facility, so we make the decision on 19 whether or not they go to the hospital, and whether or not 20 we're responsible for it or whether the inmate is. If we're 21 responsible for it, at the end of month, when we send out 22 our out-of-county housing bill, which is all kept in track 23 by the computer system, then it also sends out another bill 24 that's medical that we mail to those counties to get 25 reimbursed for all the medical expenses that we paid on 11-22-04 119 1 their inmates that month. So, as soon as we get -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So we prepay? 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We prepay it, then we 4 get reimbursed. Tommy does that and gets it reimbursed from 5 those counties, and we don't have any problem doing it that 6 way that I have ever been made aware of. 7 MR. TOMLINSON: There's quite a lag time in 8 the time -- in the chain, though. I mean, from the time we 9 get the bill and we get our money back, I mean, it's -- it's 10 60 to 90 days. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Particularly with 12 people like Harris County, that takes a long time to get 13 through their system. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The housing contract we 15 have with those other counties stipulates in it that they 16 will reimburse us for any medical bills incurred -- for any 17 medical bills incurred by their inmates. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can we -- 19 MR. TOMLINSON: What happened -- a lot of 20 times the problem I have also with other counties is that 21 if -- if we pay the bill and we send it to Gillespie County, 22 they may decide not to pay it until they get reimbursed from 23 the family. So, you know, we're sitting here paying their 24 bill, waiting for them to reimburse us, and then finally, 25 when it does happen, it probably goes -- probably going to 11-22-04 120 1 go directly to the hospital, and then the hospital has to 2 turn around and write us a check. So, I mean, it's -- it is 3 a problem. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, it's -- I 5 understand the problem side of it, but I also -- you know, 6 people -- or businesses in this community that do business 7 with the County, whether it's the juvenile detention 8 facility, the jail, or any other department, should get paid 9 promptly. And if we -- you know, it's just kind of the cost 10 of doing business, way I look at it. If we're going to 11 house out-of-county people in either one of those 12 facilities, I think we have an obligation to make sure our 13 local vendors are at least paid promptly. You know, how 14 that is best handled, I don't know. I'll leave that to you 15 all. But I would think -- I don't like -- I forgot which 16 one of y'all just said this, but if we have a -- whether 17 it's a juvenile or an adult inmate, and they -- the county 18 we're housing the inmate from doesn't reimburse us until 19 they get reimbursed, that isn't good. 20 MR. TOMLINSON: No, it's not. That happens. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We need to have in our 22 contract with them, we send them the bill; they pay it back 23 to us if we prepaid it. I would probably rather us prepay 24 it. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, when we send the 11-22-04 121 1 other counties their bills, I hope that's not happening with 2 any of our adult ones. I don't know, 'cause when we send 3 them out the bill every month, they get a copy of the actual 4 medical bill and everything else. It's just that we paid 5 it, and they pay the money to Kerr County. 6 MR. TOMLINSON: As -- just today I visited 7 with -- with the business office at Peterson Hospital, and 8 they're in agreement that they're willing to -- to send 9 their billings directly to the county that the child came 10 from, just to save some -- some time in the process of 11 shipping a bill around from place to place over a -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a related 13 question. Is there an appropriate paper trail for payroll 14 and related expenses with the appropriate approvals in place 15 for the Juvenile Detention Center? 16 MR. TOMLINSON: The payroll is -- is -- the 17 mechanics of the payroll is exactly like employees of the 18 County. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Like what? 20 MR. TOMLINSON: We treat them -- we treat 21 that payroll the same as the County, employees of the 22 County. They get the same benefits. The -- the payroll 23 cutoff's the same time. Far as the payroll system's 24 concerned, you wouldn't know if they were a regular County 25 employee or detention -- detention facility employee. 11-22-04 122 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In your mind, what 2 constitutes an extraordinary payroll-related expense? 3 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't follow that one. 4 What do you mean, an extraordinary payroll expense? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Something other than 6 routine payroll. Accrued vacation. 7 MR. TOMLINSON: Oh, that's standard. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Accruals. 9 MR. TOMLINSON: We do that. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How do we do that? 11 MR. TOMLINSON: If someone leaves from the 12 County Clerk's office, and they have -- they've earned 13 vacation or comp time or holiday pay that they have -- 14 that's on the books, we pay that employee those -- that time 15 when they leave. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Under what 17 circumstances do we pay holiday pay? 18 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, if they've worked a 19 holiday, and -- and it's -- and that's part of the time that 20 they've earned that -- that hasn't been paid to them. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Like Rusty's office, 22 as an example; he -- he'd be the only one. He'd be the only 23 one that would work on a holiday, wouldn't he? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't know. I'm 25 just asking. 11-22-04 123 1 MR. TOMLINSON: That's -- that's a problem 2 system-wide, in that we have -- when somebody leaves, we -- 3 we have earned time that -- that we pay them for when they 4 leave. That's -- that's in -- 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Personnel Policy. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think the deal is, in 7 the personnel, there are limits on that time. I think you 8 can only carry 180 hours -- 9 MR. TOMLINSON: Right, there is a limit. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- vacation, and there's 11 limits on how much you can actually carry to be paid for. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, what is the paper 13 trail for a request for the payment of accruals, whatever 14 they are? 15 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, it would be either 16 their time card or a letter from the department head or the 17 elected official, whoever's in charge of -- of the 18 department. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Back to the -- are you 20 done? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Back to the OB/GYN bill 23 in-hand, why can't that be paid as a late bill and approved 24 right now? 25 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't have it. I don't 11-22-04 124 1 know what -- it's in the works. It's already been -- I 2 explained that to them today. I talked with the people 3 there, and that's fine with them, to be paid next time. I 4 don't have it, so I don't -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm ready to vote. I 6 can't wait to vote. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I got a couple questions. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Dadgumit. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me get my yellow pad here. 10 Page 1, Commissioners Court. Deductible, B.I. claim. See 11 what I'm talking about? 12 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah, I know what you're 13 talking about. I don't know what case that is. I'd have to 14 look it up. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: It says Lozano on the print I 16 have. 17 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't know what coverage it 18 is. I don't know if it's general liability or -- 19 JUDGE TINLEY: It's a B.I. claim; almost have 20 to be. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, it could be -- well, 22 yeah, it would be. Or it could be -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Could be comp. 24 MR. TOMLINSON: No, couldn't be auto there, 25 so it is general liability. We have a $10,000 deductible, 11-22-04 125 1 so it would be -- it would be probably as a -- as an 2 attorney's bill. I'll have to look it up and see. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that an employee? 4 MR. TOMLINSON: Hmm? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is it a bodily injury 6 claim for an employee? 7 MR. TOMLINSON: It wouldn't -- I don't think 8 so, no. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: No, it's some third-party 11 claimant, apparently. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: If it was an employee, it 13 would be worker's comp. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll put one in next 15 month and see. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: I was going to say -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Three grand. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Maybe we want to take a look 19 here, while Commissioner Baldwin is looking for that 20 particular -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, do you want to 22 look it up? 23 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: 9075. Let's go to Page 8, 25 Sheriff. Guardian Security. That is just a piece of our 11-22-04 126 1 upgrade? 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The 10,000-something, 3 yes. That's the interview. That's -- we're still -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the interview, okay. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's the interview 6 room. That came out of Criminal Investigations. That was 7 budgeted. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: This is not part of the 9 general security -- 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The 39. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: -- remedy that we're going 12 into this year with that? 40,000, mas or menos? 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think we had 39,000 14 budgeted. I have not had them do that yet, because even 15 though I have gotten estimates and proposals, per se, from 16 three other companies, there's a question of whether I still 17 need to go out for actual bids, since it is an expenditure 18 of over $25,000, and the County Attorney, Mr. Motley, is 19 looking into that to see if we need to bid it, or if all 20 those other proposals that we had gotten before budget time 21 would suffice for the bid. But that's the interview room. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay. That's all the 23 questions I've got, gentlemen. 24 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. It is -- this is a 25 settlement that the attorneys representing Texas Association 11-22-04 127 1 of Counties entered into with Norma Lozano for an accident 2 on -- it's July the 27th, '04. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Slip and fall? Or do we know? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, how does 5 something like this get to Texas Association of Counties? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, it would have to be 7 turned in as a third-party liability claim. Then we refer 8 it to them. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Who does? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Well -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You do? 12 MR. TOMLINSON: We do. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: That's another thing I can't 14 figure out. It's listed under us, Commissioners Court. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, that -- it's -- it's 16 for professional services, I believe. Yeah. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So, the deductible just 18 related to the attorney's fees that got charged against us 19 in connection with that claim? 20 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, the letter from -- from 21 TAC indicates that -- that they -- that this is a 22 settlement, and in addition to medical expenses that we 23 already paid for in the amount of $985.06. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: If we've got a $10,000 25 deductible, then it's clearly within our deductible. 11-22-04 128 1 MR. TOMLINSON: Right. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: I guess I'm curious more 3 about -- if it's -- if it's being charged to Professional 4 Fees, I can understand why it got placed under Commissioners 5 Court. 6 MR. TOMLINSON: That's why it's been charged. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. That's the only reason, 8 is because it relates to professional fees? 9 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But Commissioner Baldwin 12 had a good fundamental question. Just for education, how do 13 these claims -- I mean, who -- if someone falls, how do they 14 file a claim? 15 MR. TOMLINSON: Generally, when we have a 16 slip and fall or any kind of accident, the security officer, 17 Chuck, will investigate, write it up, give it to us. We -- 18 we fax a letter, and plus the report from him, to -- to 19 Texas Association of Counties. They -- they send the letter 20 and report to their adjusting agency. If -- if there's a 21 need for further investigation, they assign someone to do 22 it. If not, then they -- they will deal with the injured 23 directly, pay their medical bills. Or -- and if there's a 24 litigation, then they assign an attorney to the case and 25 handle the case on their own from there on. 11-22-04 129 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So -- okay, you answered 2 my question. I mean, locally, it's Chuck who primarily gets 3 it to you, and then it gets filed. 4 MR. TOMLINSON: Right. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything further on the bills? 6 Do we have a motion and second? 7 MS. PIEPER: Yes. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 9 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 10 your right hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Do we have any budget 15 amendments? Hearing silence -- 16 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't have one, but there 17 -- there was the one associated with Item -- I think it's 18 14. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's Item 14? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Budget amendments. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But what was -- oh, 22 juvenile detention? That one. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: I understood you to say that 24 you didn't have an amendment figure for us. 25 MR. TOMLINSON: There's -- we have 11-22-04 130 1 approximately $80,000 in receivables. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How much? 3 MR. TOMLINSON: $80,000 in receivables. We 4 have 20 -- there's $20,600, approximately, in cash today. 5 Less the 15 that we've approved, that gives us five. I 6 don't have any way of knowing how much we're going to 7 collect between now and the payroll, which will be the 30th. 8 The last time the payroll was fifty -- almost $59,000. We 9 don't have any more bills between now and the next court 10 meeting, so I think I'm -- to be safe, I would -- I would 11 estimate 60. $60,000. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the -- if we go to 13 60, what's the total amount that we have authorized or 14 transferred into that juvenile detention facility? 15 MR. TOMLINSON: That would be one -- it would 16 be 130 plus -- be 260. $260,000. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 260 total? 18 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 200 now. 20 MR. TOMLINSON: 260. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 260. 22 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. We transferred 130 -- 23 seems like October. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, but that -- receivables 25 were -- that was -- that was a dollar-for-dollar swap, 11-22-04 131 1 wasn't it? Wasn't it? 2 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, yes. But that's -- I 3 mean, to answer his question, that's how much we -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But we probably still 6 have some of that -- I'm guessing that some of that is still 7 owed to us? 8 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. Yes, it is. Yes. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion that 10 we declare an emergency and transfer $60,000 into the 11 Juvenile Detention Facility budget to cover payroll expenses 12 on November 30th. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to 15 declare an emergency and transfer $60,000 to Juvenile 16 Detention Facility for payroll coverage. Any questions or 17 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 18 your right hand. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other budget amendments? 23 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Do we have 25 any late bills? 11-22-04 132 1 MR. TOMLINSON: I have one. I think you've 2 already approved it, but it's for the Ford Motor Credit for 3 the down payment on those -- 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, we did. 5 MR. TOMLINSON: -- Sheriff's vehicles. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: $35,000, roughly. 7 MR. TOMLINSON: $35,983. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, we approved it. 9 MR. TOMLINSON: All right. I don't see any 10 transcripts here. What about monthly reports? 11 MS. PIEPER: Yes, sir, we have those. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Pardon? 13 MS. PIEPER: We have those. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I've been furnished 15 with monthly reports for Justice of the Peace, Precinct 3; 16 Justice of the Peace, Precinct 1; and Road and Bridge. Do I 17 hear a motion that these reports be approved as submitted? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 21 approval of the designated monthly reports as submitted. 22 Any question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, 23 signify by raising your right hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 11-22-04 133 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Do you 3 have any reports you wish to give us with respect to your 4 liaison assignments? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir, but I 6 appreciate you asking. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Williams? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Nothing today. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Letz? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't believe I have 11 any. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Nicholson? 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I asked the Animal 14 Control officer to put a report in your in-baskets about 15 activities this year, and the reason I did that was because 16 of the front-page articles in the San Antonio newspaper, and 17 wondering if that might create some hysteria about -- about 18 euthanizing animals, and the reports -- the numbers are 19 good. So, I just wanted you to have that in case you had 20 questions about it. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Appreciate it. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You could speak 23 intelligently. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Take more than that 25 report. 11-22-04 134 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: If I get any calls, 2 I'll refer them to you, Buster. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Intelligently and without 4 outrage. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, no outrage. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: No outrage. Any -- any 7 further reports by anyone on the Court, or elected officials 8 or department heads? Any further business, gentlemen, that 9 is covered by the agenda? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see we have a new 11 Daily Times reporter with us today. What are you doing on 12 this side of the river? 13 MR. MACCROSSAN: Temporary. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: He got promoted. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're moving up in 16 the world. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a demotion. 18 MR. MACCROSSAN: That's what you call it? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He hobnobs with those 20 City guys; he may think this is a demotion. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Being no further business, 22 we'll stand adjourned. 23 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 3:10 p.m.) 24 - - - - - - - - - - 25 11-22-04 135 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 5 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 6 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 7 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 29th day of November, 8 2004. 9 10 11 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 12 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 13 Certified Shorthand Reporter 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 11-22-04