1 2 3 4 5 6 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 7 Special Session 8 Monday, January 24, 2005 9 9:00 a.m. 10 Recessed and Reconvened 11 Tuesday, January 24, 2005 12 3:45 p.m. 13 Commissioners' Courtroom 14 Kerr County Courthouse 15 Kerrville, Texas 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 DAVE NICHOLSON, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X January 24, 2005 2 PAGE 3 --- Visitors' Input 4 --- Commissioners' Comments 8 4 1.1 Consider banking agreements with First National 5 Bank Omaha for partnership with Kerr County and Mutual of Omaha and sign same 13, 142 6 1.2 Presentation by Guy Overby, President of Kerr Economic Development Foundation (KEDF) 14 7 1.3 Concept Plan for developing Center Point School property 25 8 1.4 Preliminary Revision of Plat for Holcomb Ranch, set public hearing, and list in publication that 9 Hacienda Trail will be abandoned, vacated, and discontinued 48 10 1.5 Set public hearings for revision of plat for: 1. Rio Retiro, Lots 10 & 9 50 11 2. Live Springs Ranch, Lot 4 54, 192 1.6 Revision of Plat for Kerr Vista IV, Lots 29-35 54 12 1.7 Open & consider bids for used excavator(s) 59 1.8 Consider requiring annual written personnel 13 evaluations on all who work for or report to Commissioners' Court 61 14 1.9 Resolution in support of Knipling-Bushland effort to cause U.S.D.A. to do feasibility study for funds 15 to construct replacement laboratory in Kerr County 66 1.10 Request by Hill Country Chili Classic for use of 16 Flat Rock Lake Park the weekend preceding Easter 69 1.11 Consider implementation of the Burn Ban 74 17 1.12 Consider renegotiation of the interlocal agreement between Kerr County and the City of Kerrville for 18 animal control services 94 1.13 Approval of resolution in support for funding the 19 Texas Tech University (TTU) Hill Country Educational Network and the TTU Center at Junction 101 20 1.14 Consider status of Legion and Granada Tower contracts with LCRA 102 21 1.15 Consider beginning new County Court at Law Court Coordinator at Grade 19, Step 3, based on prior 22 training and experience 110 1.16 Request authorization for an audit of the 23 Hot Check accounts 112 1.17 Request starting salary deviation from recommended 24 position step-grade chart 117 1.18 Approval of new hire at 12-3 and approval of 25 promotion from clerk position to senior clerk 119 3 1 I N D E X (Continued) January 24, 2005 2 PAGE 3 1.19 Consider suspending water availability requirements of Subdivision Rules & Regulations 123 4 1.20 Consider reduction of registration fees for Rabies Drive 127 5 1.21 Authorization to pursue interlocal agreements for placement of Kerr County MHMR patients in 6 facilities outside of Kerr County 128 1.22 Consider execution of Engagement and Waiver of 7 Conflicts letter with County's bond counsel in connection with issuance of Certificates of 8 Obligation by Kerr County to purchase Juvenile Detention Facility 143 9 1.23 Consider approval of Consent and Release Agreement with respect to Kerr County Juvenile Detention 10 Facility and outstanding bonds on same, authorize County Judge to sign agreement 152 11 1.24 Order authorizing the Issuance, Sale and Delivery of "Kerr County, Texas Certificates of Obligation, 12 Series 2005", securing the payment thereof by authorizing levy of an annual ad valorem tax, and 13 approving and authorizing execution of all instruments and procedures related thereto --- 14 1.25 Consider authorizing County Judge to execute any and all necessary documents on behalf of Kerr 15 County to complete the purchase of Juvenile Detention Facility and issuance and sale of 16 Certificates of Obligation, delivery of funds to existing bondholders, and obtaining any necessary 17 or required releases --- 1.26 Consider and take action to appoint Supervisor of 18 Kerr County Rabies and Animal Control Department 160 19 4.1 Pay Bills 166 4.2 Budget Amendments 173 20 4.3 Late Bills --- 4.4 Read and Approve Minutes --- 21 4.5 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports --- 22 5.1 Reports from Commissioners/Liaison Committee Assignments 178 23 5.2 Reports from Elected Officials/Department Heads 179 24 --- Recessed and reconvened on Jan. 25, 2005 197 --- Recessed 199 25 4 1 On Monday, January 24, 2005, at 9:00 a.m., a special 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in the 3 Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville, 4 Texas, and the following proceedings were had in open court: 5 P R O C E E D I N G S 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me call to order the 7 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court scheduled for 8 this time and indicate, Monday, January 24th, 2005, at 9 9 a.m. It's that time now. Commissioner 2, I think today 10 it is your day. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I believe so. If 12 you'll please rise and join me in the prayer, and stay 13 standing for the pledge of allegiance. 14 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. At this point in 16 the meeting, if there's any member of the public that wishes 17 to be heard with respect to anything that is not a listed 18 agenda item, they're privileged to come forward at this 19 time. If you wish to be heard on a matter that is a listed 20 agenda item, we'd ask that you fill out a participation 21 form; they're at the back of the room. It's not essential, 22 but it helps me not -- not miss you when we get to that 23 particular item, so that's why we ask you to do it. But for 24 items that are not listed on the agenda, we'd welcome any 25 member -- any member of the public that wishes to step 1-24-05 5 1 forward and be heard at this time. Yes, sir? 2 MR. POPE: Judge Tinley, my name is Scott 3 Pope. I'm here today representing Taxpayers' Watch for Kerr 4 County. I want to thank the Commissioners for allowing me 5 the time to give a brief presentation. My subject today is 6 the proliferation of unregulated surface mining in Kerr 7 County, the damage these mines are causing to the 8 environment, and the local policy of granting these 9 commercial operations agricultural tax exemptions. These 10 unregulated mines are environmental disasters, and they are 11 rapidly turning our pristine Hill Country into a pockmarked 12 wasteland. This presentation is intended only to illuminate 13 the problem. To fully understand the depth of the problem 14 requires a presentation well beyond the time considerations 15 of today's agenda. I'm available to give an extended 16 presentation at a later date at the convenience of any 17 Commissioner or interested party. There is a monetary 18 aspect, as -- as these unregulated surface mines have a duty 19 to report to the Appraisal District when lands are taken out 20 of agricultural use. The duty lies with the exempt party. 21 The remedies are -- are four-fold: rollback 22 of taxes, interest, penalties, and there's a criminal aspect 23 to it. So, what I'd like do is to show some aerial photos 24 of these mines and discuss -- I'm a geologist. I want to 25 discuss that there's four classes of mines that are 1-24-05 6 1 proliferating. We have an environment here in Kerr County 2 that draws these renegade miners from all over Texas here 3 because of our public policy. I have an article from 4 Express News recently where Mr. Coates was interviewed. The 5 gist of the article is they say we're turning a blind aye to 6 this mining. We're not policing it, and we're just going to 7 let it rip here in Kerr County. So, with that, I want to 8 show you very quickly some photos. First photo I'm going to 9 show you is a type of mining that's commonly called outcrop 10 mining. I call it strip mining. It, in my mind, is the 11 most sinister kind of mining, where rock is scraped from the 12 surface with a bulldozer. This is a huge mine. A large 13 part of it has a full agricultural tax exemption. This 14 photo is 10 years old, so we've had considerable growth of 15 this mine in the last 10 years. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can you identify the 17 location of these mines? 18 MR. POPE: Absolutely. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where is that? 20 MR. POPE: North of Interstate 10. I have a 21 GIS file that identifies the -- the tax information, the 22 location, the ownership. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just general. Just 24 general. 25 MR. POPE: North of I-10, northeast of 1-24-05 7 1 Kerrville. Second class of mine is kind of a conventional 2 rock quarry. You may -- you've driven past this one a 3 thousand times. You can see the roadside parks on 4 Interstate 10. This mine's about 200 feet off of the 5 freeway, but it's cleverly concealed from public view. This 6 mine has had an agricultural tax exemption for at least the 7 last 10 years, and it's grown. It's proliferated at a huge 8 rate. If you drive Cedar Creek Road between Comfort and 9 Kerrville and look to your right, you'll just see a series 10 of strip mines. Pretty much all of them have ag exemptions. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Cedar Creek or 12 Cypress Creek? 13 MR. POPE: Cypress Creek, excuse me. Cypress 14 Creek. This is a quarry type of mine. Unlike outcrop 15 mining, quarries can be reclaimed. Sunken Gardens in San 16 Antonio is a -- is a rock quarry. San Antonio Zoo is a rock 17 quarry. Fiesta Texas is a rock quarry. On the other hand, 18 I've never seen an outcrop mine reclaimed. Generally, 19 outcrop mines are -- are run by people that don't have an 20 eye to reclamation of land. They're generally interested in 21 getting the cash as quick as they can. So, if you look at 22 an aerial photo of Kerr County, there's a tremendous amount 23 of these mines. They're everywhere. And, again, because of 24 our public policy, they're growing at a rapid rate. This is 25 a third kind of mine. This is a pit mine. There's the 1-24-05 8 1 Guadalupe River here, 173. There's two kinds of mines here; 2 there is a pit mine, and then you see they've gotten a 3 bulldozer in down by the river and cut the bank out for 4 gravel. That's a cut bank mine. Unregulated in the state 5 of Texas. And this mine benefits from an agricultural tax 6 exemption. I'm here to tell you -- to render an opinion, 7 that when you strip the rock and the topsoil and the trees 8 and vegetation off -- off the ground, there is absolutely 9 zero agricultural value to it. While Mr. Coates maintains 10 that we can't police that, we maintain that you can. It's 11 easy to police. The first step is to go after these guys 12 for back taxes, penalties, and interest. That's all I have 13 to say. Thank you very much. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. We appreciate 15 you being here today. Thank you. Commissioner Williams, 16 what do you have for us this morning? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, thank you, 18 Judge. Not a great deal, except stock show's behind us, and 19 apparently it was a good one. I don't know what the final 20 results were of the sale in terms of dollars and cents, but 21 I do know that a lot of my good folks from Center Point went 22 off with honors out of the swine barn. Commissioner 23 Nicholson and I were in the swine barn for a couple days, 24 and -- and we survived it. I saw a lot of little piggies 25 for two days, but that's okay. But you may note that last 1-24-05 9 1 year we made a -- a major pronouncement that that sound 2 system in the Ag Barn would be fixed, or it would be over my 3 dead body. Well, sort of my semi-dead body -- is Glenn in 4 the audience? Semi-dead body. This year it was somewhat 5 better in the hog barn, but my understanding was it wasn't 6 all that good in the arena. I'm sure Commissioner Letz 7 would probably attest to that also. But, on balance, it was 8 a good show, as always. It's always a treat -- special 9 treat to me to see those young people who have stayed with 10 their animals from early on, birth or whenever they acquired 11 them, raised them, groomed them, know everything about them, 12 and they're there to show them, and they do such a 13 magnificent job. It's just a real treat to watch that take 14 place. 15 Second thing was, this morning the County 16 Auditor mentioned to me just before we came on the dais that 17 he has a -- about a half a dozen applicants for the 18 Information Technology position, and it probably behooves us 19 to figure out a time and place to begin some interviews. 20 That's just kind of a general comment to the Court, 'cause 21 we need to get that process going. I asked if he knew 22 whether or not the -- the current occupant of that position 23 would stay beyond January 31st, and he said he didn't 24 believe he would. So, that's all I have, Judge. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Commissioner Letz? 1-24-05 10 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My only comment, it was a 2 very successful stock show, from what I can tell. Due to my 3 not feeling too well Saturday afternoon, I didn't make it to 4 the sale. Although I think I bought something, I've been 5 told since by one of my good friends. But overall, I think 6 it was a big success. And, actually, I wasn't going to 7 mention the sound system; I was just going to stay on a 8 positive note, but since you did, it's a speaker problem. 9 The interference problem has been cured in the large arena, 10 but the -- I think -- my guess would be maybe that they did 11 the sound test with an empty barn, as opposed to a barn with 12 several thousand people in it, and it's a lot different. 13 And I know I had quite a few complaints about not being able 14 to hear, and the clarity as well, but I think we'll 15 hopefully go through that this coming year and get that 16 fixed. Other than that, I really don't have anything. We 17 have a long agenda; let's get ready to go. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner 4? 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Just quickly about 20 the -- the youth livestock show. It was really a pleasure 21 for me to see that -- see those children and see what 22 they're doing, and learning -- building character and 23 learning responsibilities and things like that. Out in my 24 neck of the woods, there aren't any children, so I'm mostly 25 dealing with old people. The other thing I notice is what 1-24-05 11 1 you don't see out there. You don't see the tattoos, body 2 piercing, purple hair. I think that might be the cream of 3 the crop when it comes to Kerr County children. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Commissioner 1? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. You might see 6 purple hair out there, but you don't see it long. Don't 7 last very long. No, sir, I just wanted to remind you all of 8 the -- the meeting tonight, the Aqua Texas informal public 9 meeting at Tivy at 7 o'clock dealing with the application to 10 change water rates, and very important meeting. I think 11 that we're blessed that the State folks and the Aqua Texas 12 people are coming to Kerrville and give us an opportunity to 13 speak. So, the day has just begun. It'll be a long day, 14 and hopefully a good evening with them. That's all I have. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Back on the stock 16 show, I think -- I'm not sure how many of y'all managed to 17 make it out there; I hope all of you had an opportunity. 18 But one -- one thing that struck me was the number of people 19 that we had out there, and I'm not just talking about during 20 the district show. There -- we had a huge crowd out there 21 for the county show on Thursday, an even larger crowd for 22 the district show on Friday. And, of course, there was a 23 good crowd out there Saturday for the remaining portion of 24 it and the sale. I -- I was very, very impressed by the 25 number of people that have an interest in those activities 1-24-05 12 1 and that show up and support the children that participate 2 in those events. And, as Commissioner Nicholson said, 3 that -- that may be the cream of the crop of the Kerr County 4 and the hill country children. I can say that, as juvenile 5 judge in this county, if there are children who are actively 6 involved in those -- 4-H and programs like they have going 7 on out there, I'm not aware of any of those children having 8 appeared before me as juvenile judge, and I think that's a 9 good sign and is an indication that those are good programs 10 that -- that mold children into good adults. So, I think 11 it's an excellent facility to let them mature and learn what 12 they need to learn about life in order that they can move 13 forward. I was really impressed with the crowds, though. 14 Let's get on with -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, if I might make 16 one other comment, that while I wasn't at the sale, I'd like 17 to thank all of the buyers. And I -- the report that I 18 heard was that we had a number of people that have kind of 19 stepped up that have not been around before. Some new 20 people have come into the community and are spending a lot 21 of money out there, and I think they should all be 22 commended, all those. I mean, there's certain individuals 23 like Mr. Jim Raymond has spent a lot for many, many years, 24 and others in the canyon, but there are some new names, and 25 it's really neat to see that happening, that there's the new 1-24-05 13 1 people coming in, new businesses coming in that have an 2 interest in spending money out there to help the youth as 3 well. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: We -- we did have -- we had 5 the strong support of the folks that have been out there for 6 years, and we had some -- some new people that were really 7 stepping up, and we were happy to have them. Let's get on 8 with the agenda. The first item on the agenda is to 9 consider and discuss banking agreements with First National 10 Bank of Omaha for participation with Kerr County and Mutual 11 of Omaha organization, and authorize the signing of same. 12 Ms. Nemec? Is she here this morning? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. The County 14 Attorney's going to handle this one, according to 15 Ms. Nemec's -- 16 JUDGE TINLEY: According to Ms. Nemec? 17 MR. EMERSON: Well, I guess I'm making a 18 presentation for Ms. Nemec. She forwarded the copy of the 19 contract to me on January 10th. My only question is, not 20 being sure of the relationship between the bank and the 21 insurance company in the county, I'm not sure where we fit 22 into the contract. Other than that, it looks like standard 23 boilerplate terms for a bank. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: To your knowledge, 25 have we had a similar agreement in place with some other 1-24-05 14 1 bank when another underwriter covered our insurance? 2 MR. EMERSON: Not that I've seen since I've 3 been down in the office, no, sir. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't recall ever 5 doing this before, but I'm not saying that we haven't. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: My understanding of the 7 arrangement has been that the Treasurer's office would 8 periodically make deposits into a predesignated account for 9 the third-party administrator to handle the claims, and 10 while I -- I don't know specifically that this is for that 11 purpose, in that regard, I strongly suspect that that's what 12 the arrangement is, but it may be well that -- maybe we're 13 going to need to hear from Ms. Nemec, and possibly we can 14 postpone action on this item and come back to it later on 15 today if she's available. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second -- I agree. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Emerson. 18 The next item on the agenda is a presentation from Mr. Guy 19 Overby, who's president of Kerr Economic Development 20 Foundation. Good to have you here this morning, Mr. Overby. 21 MR. OVERBY: Thank you, Judge Tinley and 22 Commissioners. Thank you for the opportunity to be here 23 this morning and to give you a kind of a first-quarter 24 report. Kerr Economic Development Foundation starts its 25 fiscal year every October 1st and concludes September 30th 1-24-05 15 1 of each year. So, we thank you for the opportunity to come 2 here, and KEDF would like to, every quarter now throughout 3 their -- '05 as we can go through, would like to come to 4 Commissioners Court and kind of give you an update and 5 presentation of what's going on with KEDF as far as our 6 community. 7 A lot of things have been going on. Of 8 course, I've -- the last year, '03-'04, was a big year as 9 far as change for KEDF, going from a -- starting off 10 separating, as you know, from the Chamber of Commerce, going 11 into a part-time position in '03-'04. We had several things 12 that we were active in last year. We'll talk about '04-'05 13 year in just a second, but what I've given to you today is 14 just kind of given you some updates. I wanted to give you, 15 of course, minutes of our last Executive Board meeting that 16 was held in January, and also a budget comparison report of 17 what's happening with our organization as far as KEDF is 18 concerned. Again, we would like to thank the County for 19 your support in helping KEDF, and we thank you for your 20 support for the '05 year that's coming up. We're really 21 trying to make your money that you help in our organization 22 be money that's well spent, and I can assure you that with 23 our organization, for economic development efforts in our 24 county, that we're going to definitely take and use that to 25 -- to make that money work as best we can. 1-24-05 16 1 KEDF this year has divided up into six 2 working committees that I'm really pleased to make an 3 announcement to you about. One of the -- several of these 4 committees -- I'm just going to read them off. Of course, 5 the Business and Traction Committee. KEDF, of course, 6 has -- one challenging thing, as an Executive Director of 7 the organization, we have 40 board members on there, so it's 8 a big group to work with, but we have a lot of committees 9 that we've worked on. We've organized them and they're 10 working committees this year, which I'm really pleased to 11 say. One of those is the Business and Traction Committee. 12 One that I want to also address to the county -- to the 13 Commissioners Court is the Business and Incentive Committee. 14 Last April, this Court here had asked the Kerr Economic 15 Development Foundation to look at and study business 16 incentives in Kerr County. And, you know, this is something 17 that -- and, again, in the past, that we've really have 18 never looked at. And -- and to study about how, if we're 19 going to be attracting or trying to help businesses in our 20 community, in our county and our city to expand, how we are 21 going to do that. 22 I am pleased to say that all of our 23 committees, and especially the Business Incentive Committee, 24 has been very active in looking at and taking the charge of 25 what this Court has asked very seriously, and we are 1-24-05 17 1 studying and looking at how best our county can look at 2 attraction of companies or businesses to our area, and also 3 helping businesses expand in our area. We do have a 4 committee meeting with this organization tomorrow with 5 Shannon Cantrell from the governor's office. Some of the 6 speakers that we've had already come in have been with -- 7 talking about 4B sales tax; Bob Beardon with 4B Sales Tax 8 out of Austin and several other speakers have come in to -- 9 again, we are looking at the incentives. I hope that later, 10 sometime this summer -- I think we're targeting somewhere 11 around late summer, somewhere in that area -- we'll be able 12 to come back and have that report given to you. Roland Pená 13 is heading up that Incentive Committee. I know that 14 Commissioner Williams sits on this committee, but we've got 15 several folks on there, and we'll be able to come back to 16 the Commissioners Court and give a report to you on our 17 findings and what strategies that we're wanting to go from 18 there. 19 Other committees that -- just basically that 20 we want to kind of go over, we have a Business Retention/ 21 Expansion Committee that's set up and working again. 22 Obviously, businesses in Kerr County and Kerrville, we want 23 to obviously see them continue to prosper and to grow, and 24 those are areas that we are wanting to make sure that's what 25 we're focusing on too, so we're not just going out there 1-24-05 18 1 trying to get anybody to come into our area. Obviously, the 2 companies that are here and businesses that are here are a 3 primary concern for us also. Other committees that we have 4 are Marketing and Public Relations and, of course, our 5 Nominating Committee. As far as bringing in new directors 6 on an annual basis, we have them rotating off KEDF and 7 coming on again. Our first year we really did not have any 8 working committees. Again, the first year was a year of 9 just trying to reorganize and those things. I think we had 10 a very successful year. Some of the things, of course, I 11 just kind of want to highlight. 12 Of course, KEDF was very much in support of, 13 last -- 03-'04 year, the V.A. Hospital, and again trying to 14 work with General Schellhase and the support for our -- our 15 veterans here. One thing that we did as far as 16 communication is get up our first web site. Our web site 17 was set up for Kerr Economic Development Foundation in the 18 '03/'04 year, and continuing to monitor those type of things 19 that we do. In the '04-'05 year, our first quarter has been 20 very busy. One thing that KEDF is taking the lead on is 21 also with TexDOT projects that will be happening in the 22 community, keeping businesses notified of what's happening 23 in our area, not only in Kerrville, but Ingram area also. 24 As they have projects that are planned out there on Highway 25 39, we want to continue to help businesses as those projects 1-24-05 19 1 come down, how they can look on our web site, how they can 2 gather information on how that construction's going to go, 3 when the projects are coming on, how they can plan and how 4 they need to market and -- and do their different type of 5 strategies they're going to do, as far as during those 6 projects as they come up in the next few years. 7 One thing I would also say -- and I want to 8 thank Judge Tinley. This past October -- of course, with 9 the Kerrville State Hospital, we all know that the V.A. 10 Hospital and State Hospital, all the time, when cuts and 11 things start looking around, they always like to look in the 12 hill country area. We had a very good, strong 13 representation go to the San Antonio meeting of the H.H.S.C. 14 group that's looking at closures of facilities. We had a 15 good, strong presentation go down and show our support for 16 the Kerrville State Hospital. Judge Tinley was one of the 17 speakers of several people that spoke down there that day in 18 support of Kerrville State Hospital. Here -- in fact, as 19 I'm even speaking today, there is a group that is here today 20 looking at -- they have to make visits of the Kerrville 21 State Hospital as far as that being done. I'm pleased to 22 say that -- that we don't expect any type of closure in 23 Kerrville, Texas of any State Hospital facility, in fact, at 24 all. We're encouraging expansion, and to help this hospital 25 here to grow, and -- and hope there there's not going to be 1-24-05 20 1 any state school or hospital closures in the state of Texas. 2 I think the percentages have shown that they are completely 3 maxed out in many areas, and so we're hoping that the State 4 will look at trying to improve those type of things. 5 We mentioned the committees. Other things 6 that -- that KEDF has been strongly supporting, one thing 7 that we just recently did is -- and, again, this is an 8 ongoing project that's going on. I think everybody's aware 9 of the Hill Country Shooting Complex here in Kerrville and 10 the visit from the U.S.A. Shooting and Olympic Site 11 Committee. Kerrville is one of the sites that is being 12 strongly considered for this coming to Kerrville, Texas. 13 One thing that we did in helping in the presentation of that 14 project here was putting a DVD presentation together that 15 was jointly used to help in all economic partners. It's 16 from the Chamber of Commerce, from the C.V.B., and making a 17 strong effort in trying to attract a possibility of this 18 type of business to our community, and -- and tournaments 19 that it would bring here, which would bring in a lot of 20 dollars into our county, into our city. I'm pleased to tell 21 you that this is an ongoing process. But all of our 22 preliminary visits with them have been very positive, and 23 we're continuing to move forward. 24 One other thing that we've -- KEDF has been 25 trying to do in the past year is to increase our 1-24-05 21 1 relationships, how we're connected in with our state 2 officials, in developing relationships as far as over in the 3 governor's office and letting them know about Kerr County, 4 and I'm pleased to say that our relationship over there is 5 building; is very positive. And so, as we continue to do 6 that, they know about -- they know about Kerrville already, 7 but we -- what we're doing as far as in our community. So, 8 we're continuing to work on those relationships that -- one 9 thing that we hosted in the fourth quarter was a fourth 10 quarter meeting where we had all of our politicians, 11 directors, representatives were here at the Knipling- 12 Bushland Insect Lab here. We all know that that facility 13 has been here since 1951. They have a lot of government 14 regulations where they cannot go out and ask for funds to 15 build a new laboratory. They have certain things that they 16 can't do. But we know that one thing that they are -- the 17 facility out there is wanting to look at expansion and 18 trying to relocate somewhere, so KEDF took the lead as far 19 as attracting and bringing in our -- our elected officials 20 and representatives to let them know about the needs here 21 and to see about the possibility of relocating them 22 somewhere else in Kerr County. Congressman Bonilla has 23 already said it's not moving from Kerrville. So, we're -- 24 we're trying to help them in that situation to move. 25 One of the things I gave you a copy of also, 1-24-05 22 1 and something that I saw that -- that I'm glad that the 2 Commissioners Court is looking at is a resolution to pass -- 3 hopefully that you'll pass that in support of a new U.S.D.A. 4 facility in Kerrville, Texas. They currently have 14 5 scientists out there who deal with so many important things 6 as far as our agricultural business is concerned. They 7 would like to expand that to 20, and so if you will -- we 8 appreciate your consideration of that resolution. KEDF 9 unanimously passed Resolution 2005-1 in support of a new 10 facility in Kerr -- in Kerr County. We will hand-deliver 11 these resolutions to Congressman Bonilla next week; we're 12 having lunch with him, and so this is something that we'll 13 be doing as far as we'll be taking the lead on. 14 And, just briefly -- I know you have a lot on 15 your agenda -- we have several prospects that are looking at 16 our area right now, at Kerr County for several things as far 17 as location and development here. We're continuing to lead 18 in those type of things, as far as those concerns. Also, 19 KEDF -- the last time that we had a new -- a strategic plan 20 in Kerrville for -- with KEDF at that time was in 1991. We 21 are in the process right now of -- since last quarter of 22 last year, we have been developing a new strategic plan. We 23 are in the process of going through the draft of it right 24 now. I would hope that by the next time I come back and 25 give a report to the Commissioners Court, I'll have a copy 1-24-05 23 1 of the new strategic plan in front of you as far as the 2 direction KEDF is trying the help in our community. And at 3 that, I'll stop, and if you have any questions, I'll be glad 4 to answer those for you. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Any questions for Mr. Overby? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just one quick one. 7 Guy, I want to thank you, first of all, for coming. 8 Appreciate that. 9 MR. OVERBY: Yes, sir. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Recently, the Airport 11 Board met and set some policy with respect to the 12 development of the airport property for both aviation and 13 nonaviation uses. Are those policy directions now such that 14 you'll be able to assist in the marketing of those 15 properties? 16 MR. OVERBY: Yes, sir. I was very excited -- 17 and, first of all, I want to, you know, again just say that 18 the Airport Board meeting workshop that was done last week 19 was -- was very, very positive, and the decisions that came 20 out of looking at the land -- we took a tour of that 21 facility, looking at the different properties, as you said, 22 Commissioner Williams, out there, and looking at land that 23 will help out there, that we can use, and knowing what -- 24 what land that we could use out there as far as some 25 nonaviation development, and also for aviation development, 1-24-05 24 1 and to encourage that airport out there. So I think, yes, 2 sir, that -- to answer your question, I think that will help 3 tremendously as far as how they'll be trying to help that 4 area out there with the airport. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Anybody else? 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Just one question -- 7 well, one statement first. I'm really excited about the 8 strategies and activities I see here. I think that you've 9 got a good chance of producing new taxpayers and new jobs 10 for -- 11 MR. OVERBY: Yes, sir. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- Kerr County. 13 Does the KEDF have an opinion on the economic impact of the 14 Uniform Development Code? 15 MR. OVERBY: No comment at this time. You 16 know -- you know, that's one thing that's great about living 17 in America, is that we all have different opinions. And 18 when you have 40 different folks, everybody has different 19 opinions, but we -- we are in the best interests of what's 20 going to happen in our community. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You fielded that one 22 nicely, Guy. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Politician. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Those opinions were expressed 25 rather vigorously and rather freely at the last occasion 1-24-05 25 1 too, weren't they? 2 MR. OVERBY: That's correct. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you for being here, Mr. 4 Overby. 5 MR. OVERBY: Thank you, Judge. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move on to the next item 7 on the agenda, consider a concept plan for developing the 8 Center Point school property. Mr. Odom? Ms. Ray? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let me start it, 10 Judge, if you will, please. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Surely. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: About a month or six 13 weeks -- just before Christmas, I guess about mid-December, 14 just before the Christmas break, Ms. Ray, representing the 15 Center Point Independent School District, contacted me with 16 respect to a plan that they had in mind to assist them in a 17 couple ways. First of all, you may -- may or may not be 18 aware that C.P.I.S.D. has purchased a large tract of land 19 off of Stoneleigh Road, and -- it's on both Stoneleigh and 20 Highway 27, looking ahead to the future for expanded and new 21 facilities. I think that's a bold move. It's a -- it's a 22 great move on the part of the school district, looking 23 forward to take care of the young people. And one of the 24 things that I think is important is that, when we get down 25 the road in terms of a sewer project for Center Point and 1-24-05 26 1 the eastern part of Kerr County, that will take in -- the 2 lines are proposed to go down Stoneleigh Road and that area, 3 which would be of assistance to the school district. 4 Having said all of that, and this property -- 5 there was a certain area of this property that lent itself 6 to one other consideration, and that was that the school 7 district thought about developing -- developing a small part 8 of their 100-plus-acre tract of land for the purpose of 9 doing two things; providing rental properties for school 10 district teachers, I guess, and/or employees, 11 affordable-type housing, and secondly, to offer educational 12 opportunities for the tradespeople -- trades kids, so that 13 they could be engaged in the development of their skills as 14 they progress through high school. With that in mind, we 15 have to talk about how this might come about. It was our 16 purpose at that point to make certain that we could be of 17 assistance to Center Point Independent School District and 18 help them get this program underway, because it does benefit 19 the young people and does benefit the area as a whole. 20 With that in mind, they did develop a -- a 21 site plan. We reviewed it a little bit, made some 22 suggestions. One of the Commissioners and I talked about 23 the necessity for platting, the complete platting process, 24 and I conveyed back some thoughts as to some of the issues 25 that they had to address, gave all of that to Road and 1-24-05 27 1 Bridge, and we're here today to find out how far down the 2 road we have progressed or how far yet we must progress 3 before we have something that these folks can act upon. 4 Having said all that, Mr. Odom, we'll let you proceed from 5 there. 6 MR. ODOM: Thank you. Discussing this with 7 Commissioner Williams and Mrs. Ray, what we looked at was 8 they came in with an assumption that they would not have to 9 plat this. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Given to them by me. 11 MR. ODOM: That's -- that's true. And, 12 basically, we took a look at this to see if this would fall 13 under that exemption. We feel that -- that it does not; 14 that they would need to plat this. We were concerned about 15 drainage. One of the concerns was the highway. I believe 16 that they went to Les Harvey to look at it, and I believe 17 that -- I don't know if Les is here -- okay, then I'll turn 18 that over to Les there to talk, and the school. But 19 basically, we feel that this should be a platting process. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why? 21 MR. ODOM: Basically, because it's in 22 violation of 232.001(a)(3). 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which says? 24 MR. ODOM: Laying out a street, a road, and 25 that delineates any exemptions that you would have. 1-24-05 28 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Let me go back, just to 2 make sure the Court's all on the sage page. Under the state 3 law, there's an exemption for governmental entities of any 4 type are exempt from platting, unless they are putting in 5 roads. If they're putting in a road or right-of-way, that 6 exemption does not -- 7 MR. ODOM: Does not stand. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- does not stand. 9 There's, like -- there's whatever, A through -- 10 MR. ODOM: 3. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- H. I mean, A through 12 H exemptions, and one of them is this, and there's many 13 others. So if they, you know, put in the -- if they are 14 changing a road to access these that are going to be public, 15 that would trigger the platting. The other point is, you 16 know -- and it's a gray area in a lot of ways as to what -- 17 what they're doing with the road and what the long-range 18 plan is. I think there probably is a way for them to plat 19 -- I mean to not plat it, if they're going to -- if the 20 school district intends to own all the property and the 21 road. However, if ever they do go -- do go to sell it, 22 that's going to trigger a platting at that point. They're 23 going to have to go back -- 24 MR. ODOM: Back. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- and redo everything. 1-24-05 29 1 So, I mean, for the -- the cost involved, I would highly 2 recommend they plat it now to get everything built to County 3 specifications, get the school district a whole lot more 4 flexibility, and doesn't cost very -- I mean, that much. 5 The survey work is the -- and drainage are the larger parts. 6 You're going to have to do that anyway. I mean, the fees 7 are pretty small. So I think it depends -- and I've never 8 been clear; I talked to Commissioner Williams about it and 9 to Len Odom about it as to how they're going to handle -- 10 how the school district's planning to handle the access. If 11 they're going to just maintain the road themselves, it would 12 be a school district -- like a parking lot, basically. It 13 would not be platted. But if they're going to give some 14 sort of access or make that like a road open to the public, 15 it would be -- require plating. It just -- I don't think -- 16 I've never heard the answer to that question, but the safe 17 route would be to plat it, in my mind. And that would 18 also mean the roads are built to -- you know they're being 19 built to certain standards. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that issue 21 will be dealt with this morning satisfactorily, 22 Commissioner. There was some thought originally that there 23 would be a driveway type of road or country lane type of 24 road coming off Stoneleigh. The school district has engaged 25 the services of a professional engineer for the purpose of 1-24-05 30 1 determining what is the best way to deal with that, given 2 that everybody believes that six or seven cuts off of 3 Highway 27 would not be an acceptable approach to the Texas 4 Highway Department. So, let's find out where this takes us. 5 I think there might be another solution. 6 MR. ODOM: See, and may I also say that when 7 you look at the master plan, what was proposed to us in our 8 conversation, that in their letter it says, "The district 9 also has the option to sell the house for additional revenue 10 for the district." So that is -- this is one thing that, 11 when you start to lay this road out, basically when you're 12 looking at the overall concept, that it should be platted. 13 That is the safest and easiest way to go about it. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that point 15 was made to the administration, that some -- some future 16 board might at some time determine that they didn't want to 17 be in the rental business, and determine that they wanted to 18 disengage and perhaps sell these things, and it would be 19 better to stay in the metes and bounds and so forth and so 20 on. So, I think we've gotten past -- there's also another 21 issue on the agenda today; I'm not exactly sure how it fits 22 in. I want to reference it. I think it's one of the later 23 agenda items. You had proposed abandoning the 5-acre 24 minimum requirement for water availability. That's not on 25 the agenda? 1-24-05 31 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The agenda item is to -- 2 to suspend enforcement of the water availability 3 requirements, nothing to do with acreage. And the -- and 4 it's a Headwaters -- Headwaters doesn't have -- 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So it doesn't have 6 any applicability to the platting process here? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Just wanted to 9 find out, see where this takes us. 10 MR. ODOM: Let me turn the time over to Les 11 Harvey. When we had this discussion to look at options as 12 far as right-of-way, he was to coordinate with the Highway 13 Department to see what they would be in agreement to, to 14 help up front instead of coming off Stoneleigh, which is 15 only 30 foot wide. So, I think there is another option for 16 the school board to look at that, to come up off 27. So, 17 I'll turn the time over to Les Harvey. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Len, before you -- you 19 said something that triggered in my mind. Real quick, there 20 are some things that -- there's some legislation in place 21 that would affect some of these things in part, especially 22 that -- and I don't know if it would -- 23 MR. ODOM: Senate Bill 141. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, about the -- about 25 the requirement that counties -- well, legislatively, to 1-24-05 32 1 give counties the authority to require developers to upgrade 2 existing roads. And, anyway -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What bill? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's not Wentworth; it's 5 Deuell, isn't it? Anyway, there's -- 6 MR. ODOM: There's two bills, 141 and 142. 7 One's water codes, and one has to do with -- with that 8 option. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, anyway, it'll be 10 interesting to track that, because -- from both the school 11 standpoint and our standpoint, as to what that may mean to 12 Stoneleigh, as to having to upgrade that road. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Let's move on. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: As we deal with this 15 issue, I'm going to be partially guided by a belief that one 16 taxing entity ought to treat another taxing entity pretty 17 well, so if it's something in the gray area, we ought to err 18 on the side of giving them the benefit of the doubt so that 19 we don't drive up taxpayer costs. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree with that. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Also, with -- and me 22 wading through this, I want to -- when we get through 23 talking about roads and bridges and gullys and cuts and all 24 that, I want to -- I'd like to hear from Ms. Ray as to more 25 of what the involvement of the students are. That's what I 1-24-05 33 1 want to know about, and I think that that is the important 2 part. If we -- if we can kind of see what, really, the 3 concept plan is here, I couldn't care less if you're 4 building a bridge or a boat ramp to the thing. But, 5 anyway -- so when he gets through, I'd like to hear from 6 Ms. Ray, if we could, please. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Absolutely. 8 MR. HARVEY: My name is Les Harvey. I'm with 9 Harvey Engineering here in Kerrville. I was asked to review 10 possible access options for these lots, and in meeting with 11 Mike Coward with the local office of TexDOT, what he is 12 comfortable -- I proposed to him, and he's comfortable with 13 it, is that these lots that front on Highway 27, there would 14 be two access points. One would be at the common lot line 15 between the two easternmost lots. I don't recall them being 16 numbered, but -- 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They're not numbered, 18 but one is 1.42 acres and one is 1.94 acres on the eastern 19 side. 20 MR. HARVEY: And then the other access point 21 would be at the common lot line between the two most western 22 points -- I mean the two most western lots. And what we 23 would essentially do is build a frontage road on school 24 district property that connects the two access points, with 25 a right-of-way width yet to be determined. I know the 1-24-05 34 1 County's rules are 60 feet. We might propose a 40-foot 2 right-of-way, because we're able to use the existing 3 drainage ditch within Texas -- TexDOT right-of-way as the 4 southernmost parallel bar ditch to this frontage road, so a 5 full 60 foot right-of-way may not be necessary. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would eliminate 7 any drainage issues that you might see? Stormwater take-off 8 issues, using the bar ditch? 9 MR. HARVEY: Well, no, sir -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Be adequate to take 11 care of it? 12 MR. HARVEY: Yes, sir. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why would you not want to 14 go with the -- well, I guess -- I mean, if the school 15 district never has any plans to sell any of this, I mean, it 16 doesn't really make any difference; I don't think it 17 requires platting. But why would you not go with a 60-foot 18 right-of-way now, just to give the flexibility in the 19 future? I mean, I can -- 20 MR. HARVEY: Well, I -- I do not agree that 21 the school district never has any plans to sell any of this. 22 That option should be left open to the school district. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, but what I'm 24 saying is, if they sell one of these lots, that's going to 25 trigger platting, and they're not going to be able to give 1-24-05 35 1 the County the access -- I mean, have access. 2 MR. HARVEY: I don't think anybody is -- 3 is -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So what I'm saying, why 5 not do a 60-foot right-of-way to start with? That way, all 6 the options are open, whether it's platted or not. 7 MR. HARVEY: That's fine. I don't -- I don't 8 have a problem with it. I'm just saying the discussion has 9 come up that, when we're able to use the existing parallel 10 drainage to this access road that's in TexDOT right-of-way, 11 60 feet may be unnecessary, simply from the width needed to 12 construct a standard road and parallel bar ditches. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You talk about the -- 14 the two cuts which are connected to an access driveway. Is 15 that what you called it? 16 MR. HARVEY: Yes, sir. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Would it be necessary 18 for the future -- I'm really kind of directing this, I 19 think, to Commissioner Letz or Mr. Odom. In the future, 20 should the Board of Education determine that it did not want 21 to continue renting and they wanted to dispose of the 22 property individually, would -- would there -- would 23 easements or right-of-way easements, access easements be 24 required to get to that access driveway? I guess I'm 25 looking forward to what would happen in the future. 1-24-05 36 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, if they were to 2 sell, they're going to have to deed access to the people 3 that buy the lots. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And when they do that, 6 that's going to trigger platting. And that -- and the 7 minimum right-of-way allowed by the County rules is 60 foot. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For the -- so the 9 better option at this point would be just to plat it showing 10 the access road. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You don't need to plat 12 it. They can just do the 60-foot right-of-way, and then I'm 13 just saying that it makes a lot more sense to build -- to 14 think of the County rules and do everything with the mind 15 that you're going to plat it at some point. Whether you 16 plat it now or -- I think it's -- 17 MR. HARVEY: I think we're all in agreement 18 here that the best long-term option for the school district, 19 leaving all their options open, is to plat it and to 20 dedicate some width to be determined for this access road. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 22 MR. HARVEY: Dedicate -- on the plat, 23 dedicate it to themselves. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 25 MR. HARVEY: And it can be a private road, 1-24-05 37 1 privately maintained. It gives the option to the school 2 district, if they choose to sell off one of these tracts, 3 they can sell it, and people have access to this marginal 4 access right-of-way that the school district has granted to 5 themselves. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 7 MR. HARVEY: That won't be sold. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree. I think 9 that's -- that's an ideal way. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, sounds like a 11 workable solution. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And these are, I presume, 13 going to have central water and sewer? Or are they going to 14 be on septic? 15 MR. HARVEY: I would assume that it's all 16 going to have to be septic. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I believe Ms. Ray can 18 go over those issues. 19 MR. HARVEY: That's something I really hadn't 20 been asked to dive into. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That was not in the 22 scope of your engagement, right? 23 MR. HARVEY: Thank you. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I see Mr. Wiedenfeld 1-24-05 38 1 there; he'll probably have some answers about that, too. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ms. Ray, would you 3 please address the young people before you address the 4 septic tanks? 5 MS. RAY: I sure will. Thank you so much for 6 the opportunity today, for your time in considering our 7 plans. With this, the kids is what initially drove this 8 project. What can we do to enhance our vocational programs 9 and expose our children to more opportunities when they 10 graduate from high school to go straight into the work 11 force, if that's their desire? They have -- we have about 12 10 students that are actively involved with this project. 13 They have been able to design the house plan, the first 14 house that we plan to build this year, through using 15 computerized design programs. They have had the opportunity 16 to work with a woman who changes her mind every other day 17 about how many windows and plugs and double sinks in the 18 master bath, so they're getting a real-life opportunity so 19 that when they do go out and choose this as a profession, 20 they're going to be well experienced. They have also worked 21 with Bandera Electric in getting our meters out to the 22 property. 23 They have -- they're really itchy right now 24 to get started. We're working on some slab issues, to get 25 the cost low enough where we can begin that process, and our 1-24-05 39 1 goal is to have this house completed by the end of May. You 2 know, some of these boys are seniors, so they're really 3 counting on that, because I told them they don't graduate 4 unless this house is finished. So, they're -- they're 5 really wanting to get going on this, and they will be 6 involved with working with the subcontractors. They will 7 have the opportunity to do some of the -- the stuff 8 themselves, like the framing, the -- working with the 9 plumber, the electrician. So, it's a wonderful project, and 10 we're excited that we've been able to do so much for the 11 first time. And if everything goes according to plan, each 12 year we will build a house on these design lots and improve 13 our process and what we're teaching the children -- 14 students. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think the life 16 application part of it is just hard to beat. The only 17 drawback is that you don't have them in here today -- 18 MS. RAY: I know. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- to beat on us a 20 little bit. 21 MS. RAY: I had thought about that, and 22 decided they really need to probably not miss school. But 23 we will report back to them. They have been kept up-to-date 24 on this entire process as far as the different engineers 25 that we've had to bring in, the roadblocks that have come up 1-24-05 40 1 that we've had to work through. It's not only been a 2 learning process for them, but for us also, and I predict in 3 the future it's going to be much smoother. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Now, tell us about the water 5 and wastewater. 6 MS. RAY: I have Charlie Wiedenfeld here who 7 has been assisting us with that, and he will be happy to 8 answer whatever questions and explain to you what we have in 9 mind right now. 10 MR. WIEDENFELD: Well, the septic systems are 11 proposed for the plots to serve the wastewater. This is a 12 clay soil, so we'll have just a little larger soil 13 absorption-type system out there. I think we're going to 14 try to stay away from anything that's aerobic -- surface 15 application. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Each individual lot 17 would have its own septic? 18 MR. WIEDENFELD: Each individual lot would 19 have its own septic at this time. The water system -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Charlie, I'm sorry, 21 can you go back three sentences and say that again? You're 22 going to stay away from aerobic? Is that what you said? 23 MR. WIEDENFELD: Yes, I did. Surface 24 application. Not aerobic, but surface application, because 25 of the -- 1-24-05 41 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did you get that down, 2 Kathy? All right. All right. 3 MR. WIEDENFELD: That's -- yes. I think for 4 the -- for the high bill the school would incur, I think 5 that's something that should not be -- it's not my 6 recommendation. There is a well on the existing -- there 7 was an old irrigation well that was on one tract that's out 8 there, and they plan to use that well to serve these units 9 that will be out there. It'll be considered a private 10 shared well at this time. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would be done 12 through the installation of sufficient holding tanks and 13 pressure tanks that provide water to each of the -- 14 MR. WIEDENFELD: Yes, sir. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- lots as they move 16 down the line? 17 MR. WIEDENFELD: Right. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the test well? 19 Didn't I read here somewhere that this was -- it's a test 20 well? Headwaters? 21 MR. WIEDENFELD: Yes, it has been used for 22 water level monitoring for -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 24 MR. WIEDENFELD: -- ten-plus years that I 25 know of. 1-24-05 42 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It was the old 2 Mosty -- part of the Mosty property. That was the nursery 3 property, right? 4 MR. WIEDENFELD: Yes, sir. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Wasn't it out there 6 for irrigation purposes to begin with? 7 MR. WIEDENFELD: It was used for irrigation 8 purposes, but I don't think it's been used in 15, 20 years, 9 probably. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably under a central 11 water system, so it will be the same, basically? 12 MR. WIEDENFELD: Legally, I think we call it 13 a shared private well. It's a private well; falls under the 14 requirements that -- for a public water system, as you know, 15 it requires 15 customers. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, public system. 17 Yeah, public. 18 MR. WIEDENFELD: Or already serve 25 19 customers. Yes, you could have five houses with five people 20 in it, and they could push it close to the interpretation, 21 but I believe in this case, we're -- we're going to go in 22 and it will be many years down the read. And their 23 long-term plans are, with the school on the rest of the 24 property, that they do a central system -- water system, an 25 approved central water system at that time. This is just an 1-24-05 43 1 interim-type approach to get things going at this time. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Super. I sure do like 4 it. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm not sure -- 6 Mr. Odom, how would you like to proceed on this? Are we 7 dealing with concept, or what are we doing here this 8 morning? 9 MR. ODOM: I would like to see some 10 engineering done to look at that hydrology coming across 11 there for the access and all. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're going to 13 require a hydrology study? 14 MR. ODOM: Well, drainage study. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For what purpose? 16 MR. ODOM: Purpose for platting. There has 17 to be a drainage study done for platting. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that the -- 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't think so. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would recommend that we 21 go as easy as possible on those type of requirements, 22 because I really don't think it's that much of a need, and I 23 don't think they have to plat it. 24 MR. ODOM: Well, if they don't -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 1-24-05 44 1 MR. ODOM: Well, what I'm saying is, the 2 discussion we had was basically looking at a marginal road. 3 That's optional, whether it's 60 foot or whether it's 40 4 foot, and I believe that you would probably need to do some 5 hydrology to look at -- to see if you could do a marginal 6 road at 40-foot easement. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Didn't we just hear 8 that from Mr. Harvey? 9 MR. ODOM: Pardon me? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Did we not just hear 11 from Mr. Harvey that that had been satisfied? 12 MR. ODOM: I don't believe that it's been 13 satisfied. It was asked to look at it for access. I don't 14 think you've done any studies on that. 15 MR. HARVEY: There hasn't been any hydraulics 16 done at all. 17 MR. ODOM: At all. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is there a necessity 19 for a hydrology study, in your opinion? 20 MR. HARVEY: In my opinion, no, sir, there's 21 not. There's not that much area that drains to this point. 22 And -- but it can certainly be done. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That is all I wanted 24 to hear. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, to me, the -- if 1-24-05 45 1 it's going to be platted, the road should be 60 foot. It 2 should be a minimum county road, whatever the standards are 3 for two -- six lots. Which is -- I can't remember if 4 that's, you know, paved or not paved, but it should meet our 5 minimum requirements, whatever that is. Beyond that, you 6 know, I -- I think we have -- probably want Mr. Harvey to 7 put in writing what he just said; that he doesn't think a 8 hydrology study is needed. 9 MR. ODOM: I think so, if they're going to 10 start building homes in there. I -- to make sure. 11 Remember, you have that -- that old rail line coming down 12 through there. I'm not worried about the water on the north 13 side -- or the east side of that. It's what you're 14 channeling down through -- through those lots, Lots 5 and 6 15 right there. So, that's up to the Court. But, I mean, if 16 you do minimum, you definitely want to be sure that your -- 17 that your hydrology is not going to flood somebody. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I think we have 19 reasonable satisfaction that that's not going to be the 20 case. I think what we have before us is a concept plan 21 being advanced by the Board of Education for purposes of -- 22 for purposes as outlined, and I'd like to -- I'd like to 23 address it in this fashion; that the Court approve the 24 concept plan as presented by the Center Point Independent 25 School District, and -- and embody in that concept plan a 1-24-05 46 1 60-foot easement for an access driveway, as determined by -- 2 as outlined by Mr. Harvey, engineer, with access points to 3 that access driveway coming between lots -- left-to-right, 4 Lots 1 and 2, between -- on the property line of 1 and 2, 5 and 5 and 6, and let it go at that. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'll second. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: That was a motion, 8 Commissioner? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We have a second. All 11 right. Any discussion on the motion? All in favor -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I -- I'm sorry. I think 13 the -- the drainage issue has to be addressed, either waived 14 by the Court, or a letter and then waived, or something to 15 that effect, because it is part of our Subdivision Rules. 16 If it's going to be platted, we can't "sort of" plat it; 17 it's either plat it or not plat it. And I think that, you 18 know, the -- I'm not sure what the cutoff is, Len, as to how 19 many lots you have to have before you have to do a drainage 20 study, or if it's total acreage. I'm blank this morning. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you suggesting we 22 address that in this motion? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, not really. I think 24 it can be at the preliminary plat standpoint, done at that 25 point. They'll be doing some -- you know, contours and 1-24-05 47 1 things of that nature will be done anyway, so -- 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And we may see other 4 things at that time. I mean, you leave government in this 5 long enough, we'll screw it up for you. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. I think the motion 7 is fine the way it is, but I think we can't just, you know, 8 look the other way. We have to follow our Subdivision 9 Rules. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. I think the 11 Board of Education is amenable with that. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or 13 discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion, 14 signify by raising your right hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's 19 move quickly to -- 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just -- Judge, I just 21 want to thank Mrs. Ray and the members of her administration 22 for being here today, and Mr. Harvey and Charlie. Thank you 23 very much. 24 MS. RAY: Thank y'all. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Appreciate your help this 1-24-05 48 1 morning. Let's move to Item 4, consider preliminary 2 revision of plat for the Holcomb Ranch, set a public 3 hearing, and list in publication that Hacienda Trail will be 4 abandoned, vacated, and discontinued. Essentially, what 5 you're asking for is a -- a public hearing to be set on 6 that? 7 MR. ODOM: On -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: With the -- with the 9 admonition that the publication of notice include mention 10 that the road will be abandoned? 11 MR. ODOM: That is -- you're talking about 12 Holcomb? You're talking about 1.4? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Number 4. 14 MR. ODOM: Okay. Yes, sir, that's what we're 15 doing. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. When are you asking the 17 public hearing be set for? 18 MR. ODOM: Hold on, sir. I don't have my 19 notes here on that. Let me see what I've got. Just a 20 second. What we're doing with -- this is the preliminary 21 revision of plat for Holcomb, and listed publication -- 22 well, I'm going to say -- what did I have on the other one? 23 I'm sorry. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What is the required 25 amount of time? 1-24-05 49 1 MR. ODOM: 30 days. And I believe that the 2 next -- I think what I had on Retiro was February the 28th, 3 and if we could put that at 10:20. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: February 28th, '05, at 5 10:20 a.m.? 6 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I move that we 8 schedule a public hearing to abandon, vacate, and 9 discontinue Hacienda Trail, and that that hearing be held on 10 February 28th at 10:20 a.m. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Would that also include the 12 preliminary revision of the plat for Holcomb Ranch? 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes, sir. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 17 approval of the agenda item, set a public hearing for 18 February 28th, '05, at 10:20 a.m. Any question or 19 discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion, 20 signify by raising your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I just want to 1-24-05 50 1 make one little quickie point here. Leonard, in the future, 2 when you're styling these agenda items, while it's pretty 3 easy on this one to determine it's in Precinct 4, 'cause it 4 talks about old Ingram Lake and so forth, can we put in 5 here, like we used to do, what precinct these things are in? 6 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir, we sure can. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Appreciate that. 8 Thank you. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Next, Item 5 is set public 10 hearings on (1) revision of plats on Rio Retiro, Lot 10 and 11 9, and Number (2), Live Springs Ranch, Lot Number 4. 12 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. We would like to do 13 that for February 28th, Rio Retiro at 10 a.m. and Live 14 Springs at 10:10 a.m. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I want to make a 16 motion that we schedule that public hearing for revision of 17 Lots 9 and 10 of Rio Retiro -- you said 10:40? 18 MR. ODOM: I'm sorry, sir? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 10:00. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: 10 a.m. on 21 February 28th, and then I'll have a comment. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Prior to that public 24 hearing, the owner needs to work out with our Environmental 25 Health Department whether -- whether or not Lot 10 meets the 1-24-05 51 1 basic requirements to have a septic system there. Lot 9 -- 2 according to my notes, Lot 9 does; Lot 10 may or may not 3 meet the requirements for a septic system. 4 MR. ODOM: Lee, do you require -- recall that 5 in our discussion out there? Did it -- on Lot 10, did that 6 meet -- 7 MR. VOELKEL: I'm not sure I'm understanding 8 what the Commissioner is asking. We're combining all of Lot 9 9 and the remainder of Lot 10. They've been rolled into one 10 lot to eliminate that lot line, is what I was under the 11 impression we were doing. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let me read you my 13 note; maybe that will help clarify it. Lot 9 meets the 14 basic requirements for Chapter 285, but Lot 10 does not. 15 Lot -- there is an understanding that Lot 10 is 16 grandfathered, but according to our rules, Lot 10 is also 17 being modified; therefore, must meet the minimum state 18 standards for lot size and setbacks. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're combining lots? I 20 mean, I don't know what we're -- 21 MR. ODOM: That's what we're doing. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If we're making -- 23 combining lots, even though we're revising it, if 9 -- 10 is 24 being eliminated. What's the revision going to be? 25 MR. ODOM: Do you have a plat? I didn't 1-24-05 52 1 bring a plat. 2 MR. VOELKEL: Part of Lot 10 has been sold in 3 the past without the benefit of a replat, and that's been 4 20-some-odd years. There is an existing townhouse. There's 5 a water system and a sewer system that serves those 6 townhouses on the -- on that part of Lot 10. The remainder 7 of Lot 10 is now -- which is about half, is being added to 8 Lot 9 to make a larger lot for the purpose -- for the 9 purpose of a residence that has been built on Lot 9. It was 10 my understanding that the septic system was put near the lot 11 line between the existing Lot 9 and 10, so it would 12 eliminate that setback problem, which is 150 feet, from my 13 understanding. We're removing that lot line between Lot 9 14 and 10 and making it a larger lot. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think my point is 16 that we need to make sure Miguel Arreola has signed off on 17 this. 18 MR. VOELKEL: Correct. Now, he's in the 19 review process. He has been -- application has been made 20 with the Environmental Health Department for that. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: This -- this 22 so-called subdivision does have a 20-year history of making 23 revisions without -- without going through proper processes. 24 And you can sure tell it, too. 25 MR. VOELKEL: Probably the first time a 1-24-05 53 1 replat has been presented. A lot of things have gone on out 2 there in the past. 3 MR. ODOM: And when we come here in the 4 public hearing, we'll be setting up a final plat anyway for 5 that, and we will address that at that time. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. The motion is -- motion 7 and second is to set a public hearing on the revision of 8 plat for Rio Retiro, Lots 9 and 10, for 10 a.m. on 9 February 28, '05. Any further question or discussion? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, it says Lots 11 10, 9, and 2. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, (2) is the second item 13 of that -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Agenda. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: -- agenda item. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Dealing with Live Springs 18 Ranch. Right now -- 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: -- the motion is for Rio 21 Retiro. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm sorry. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 24 discussion on that motion? All in favor of the motion, 25 signify by raising your right hand. 1-24-05 54 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Now we 5 have remaining the request that a public hearing be set at 6 10:10 a.m. on February 28th, '05, on Live Springs Ranch, 7 Lot 4. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where is that? 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't have any 10 information on it. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where is Live Springs 12 Ranch? We -- the information we have here to make decisions 13 is very minimal. We have not a clue where this is. Where 14 is the subdivision? 15 MR. ODOM: Live Springs? I'll be honest with 16 you. Off the top of my head, I don't know. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We can't do this. 18 This is nuts. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let's just pass on 20 this one. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It should be a 23 separate agenda item anyhow. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll move on to Item 6, 25 consider revision of plat for Kerr Vista, Section IV, Lots 1-24-05 55 1 29 through 35. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where is this? 3 MR. ODOM: Kerr Vista is in Precinct 4. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Way, way out there by Midway. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, this is part of 6 the old Weatherby ranch, I think. 7 MR. ODOM: It's off Tatsch -- the old Tatsch 8 right there, Reservation, Weatherby. 9 (Discussion off the record.) 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is this final? 11 MR. ODOM: Yes, this is for a final. 12 Preliminary was done August the 9th, 2004. The public 13 hearing was advertised and held September the 13th, 2004, 14 and I've been working with Domingues, and all the 15 requirements of platting have been completed. Therefore, I 16 recommend the Court approve the final revision of -- of the 17 plat located in Precinct 4. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with you. 19 MR. ODOM: This has been dragging out. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's his. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'll move to approve 22 the revision of plat for Kerr Vista IV, Lots 29 through 35. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 1-24-05 56 1 approval of the agenda item. Any question or discussion? 2 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 3 hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. The 8 next item -- we're almost on schedule -- is a timed item for 9 10 o'clock. 10 MR. ODOM: May I ask the Court something 11 before we do this? I'm sorry, I'm not -- this cedar has got 12 me down. I've been sick for several days. I did not -- I 13 thought all this had been turned in to y'all, but on Live 14 Springs, I don't have anything here other than a revision of 15 the plat. And all I'm asking for is a public hearing, and 16 which at that time I will submit to the Court any final plat 17 that I have. So, all I'm requesting on this Live Springs is 18 a public hearing set for February the 28th at 10:10, so I -- 19 at this point, I don't have a whole lot. I will have that, 20 or the final won't be -- we'll go to the public hearing and 21 then I'll have probably an agenda item thereafter for the 22 final. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How are we going to 24 advertise a public hearing if we can't identify where it is? 25 MR. ODOM: Well, I'm sorry, I just don't 1-24-05 57 1 recall where it's at. I'm sorry. I would imagine it's 2 probably in Precinct 4, but I don't recall where it's at. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you familiar with 4 it, Commissioner? 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Name rings a bell, 6 but I can't put a place. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I probably know -- I 8 mean, if we think it's probably in 4, it's up to, in my 9 mind, Commissioner of Precinct 4, but I think it's helpful 10 for us to know, because otherwise, I mean -- 11 MR. ODOM: I don't disagree, and I apologize 12 to the Court. I thought I was assured all was turned in, 13 and the platting for it. So I -- we tried to get all this 14 together last -- last week and the week before, so I thought 15 it was all together. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Frankly, in this 17 instance, that one should be a separate agenda item. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think there's been -- 20 that may be partly my fault. I visited with Truby on this. 21 She's asked before, and I said I don't know why they can't 22 be combined. I actually think that the -- I'm not convinced 23 that these even need to come to the Court. If there's an 24 application for a revision, to me, that triggers the notice 25 requirement. And I think they can probably just go -- you 1-24-05 58 1 know, could proceed with a public hearing without us even 2 knowing about it. 3 MR. ODOM: Without knowing about it. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's better for 5 it to be on the agenda so we are aware of it, but it's a -- 6 I think they could try to save time, to probably combine 7 them. That's probably -- I've told her I don't think it's a 8 problem with combining them in one agenda item. 9 MR. ODOM: Would the Court like me to do 10 separate agenda items? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, not necessarily. 12 It doesn't matter if there's 10 or 20 of them on there, but 13 there will be separate court orders. I won't vote for a 14 blanket list of -- my god. No, I won't do that. But it 15 doesn't matter -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're talking about 17 setting a separate hearing for each one. 18 MR. ODOM: Separate. One's at 10:00 and 19 one's at 10:10. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, again, the 21 details are missing. Are we talking about a plot of ground 22 we're making two lots of out one? Are we making four out of 23 six? Are we making ten out of four? What are we doing? 24 MR. ODOM: Well, right now, until I have a 25 public hearing, you'll have that information for a final 1-24-05 59 1 plat. I don't have all of it in front of me right now. 2 It's not necessary. We're trying to get a public hearing 3 set up. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we ought to have 5 more information than we have. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We need more 7 information than what we have, 'cause we're actually voting 8 on something here that is going to move a project down the 9 road, and we need to know. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If it's on the agenda, we 11 need more information, though I personally don't think it 12 needs to be on the agenda. But I think -- and the reason I 13 think Truby and I -- we discussed it, that it's on the 14 agenda is to coordinate, so everyone's aware of when public 15 hearings are. Otherwise, there may be some confusion 16 between us setting hearings on other dates, and different 17 calendar. So -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's fine. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- anyway, I think we -- 20 if it's on the agenda, we need to have information. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Does the Court wish to offer 22 anything further with respect to the Live Springs Ranch item 23 on Item Number 5? Let's move on to Item 7. As I said, it's 24 a timed item for 10 o'clock. It's after that time now. 25 That item is to open and consider bids for a used excavator. 1-24-05 60 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, we have one bid. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: One bid from Excel Machinery 3 Limited. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One bid. Numerous bids 5 in the one bid package, it appears, but it's from one 6 company. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay. The various 8 items of equipment being offered by Excel Machinery Limited, 9 one is a -- first one is a Gradall, G3-WD, $18,000. The 10 last two serial numbers are 68. Next one is a Gradall 11 G3-WD, last two serial numbers are 76, for $19,600. Next 12 item is another Gradall G3-WD, last two serial numbers are 13 40, for $26,000. Next one is also a Gradall G3-WD, last 14 two, 40, and a Gradall G3-WD, last two, 68, for a combined 15 total of 43,5. Next bid is for Gradall G3-WD, last two, 40; 16 Gradall G3-WD, last two, 76, for 43,500. The next bid is 17 for a Gradall G3-WD, last two, 68, and a Gradall G3-WD, last 18 two, 76, for a combined total of $35,000. And we have the 19 spec sheets attached. It doesn't appear that those are 20 broken down by serial number, but rather by model number. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, I move we accept 22 all bids and refer them to Road and Bridge -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- for recommendation. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that 1-24-05 61 1 bids be accepted and referred to Road and Bridge for 2 evaluation and recommendation. Any further question or 3 discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion, 4 signify by raising your right hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. The 9 next item on the agenda is to consider, discuss, and take 10 appropriate action on requiring an annual written personnel 11 evaluation on all who work for or report to the 12 Commissioners Court. Commissioner Williams? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I put that on, Judge, 14 because in the past we have required annual evaluations of 15 employees who report directly to Commissioners Court, and we 16 haven't done that in a while. I think we probably should do 17 it. I don't have any process for when we should do it, but 18 I think it's important that it's done. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: In the past, we have done 20 them -- each Commissioner and County Judge have done them 21 and turned them in, and met with the employees, talked with 22 the employees. Is that the same format, I mean, in the 23 aggregate, or we're trying to -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have no change in 25 the format. I don't have plans for that. I just want to 1-24-05 62 1 bring it up for discussion to see where the Court would like 2 to go with it. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: It occurs to me that probably 4 the most important thing is a proper evaluation form, one 5 which is comprehensive and objective and specific. I don't 6 know what format we may be looking at. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think we have one 8 in the file, do we not, Ms. Mitchell? 9 MS. MITCHELL: The Treasurer's office has 10 one, yes. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We've used one in the 12 past. It was pretty comprehensive. We just haven't done it 13 in a couple years. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's good to do 15 it, but you always get into the problems that the -- 16 fortunate or unfortunate -- people that report directly to 17 us, however they want to look at it, have five bosses. And 18 that's been where the -- the difficult part has always come 19 in. You know, I may say one thing, Buster may say the 20 opposite, and the employee doesn't know what to do, or 21 doesn't know if they're doing a good job or bad job. So, 22 you know, I think they're useful; you can find out where 23 there's a problem between any one of us and an employee. 24 But if there -- if -- that's all it does. It doesn't do 25 much beyond that. And that's probably useful in and of 1-24-05 63 1 itself. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, and we -- I 3 think -- again, and I've said this several times, I think 4 that we should follow -- use the format that we have in the 5 Treasurer's office and individually evaluate the employee, 6 but I think that then we need to come together collectively 7 to have the inter -- have an interview with the employee and 8 express the numbers that we have evaluated to that employee 9 from -- from the five of us. Otherwise, it's a waste of 10 time. And that needs to be done before the budget process, 11 or possibly during the budget process, 'cause if there's any 12 salary increases, then that would be a part of the criteria 13 to use to increase salaries, et cetera. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's fine with me. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Commissioner 4? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me -- let me throw 17 something out as a possible option. That the initial review 18 -- the initial rating, as it were, be done by whoever has 19 the liaison relationship with that particular department or 20 function, because presumably that particular member of the 21 Court's going to have better knowledge about what that 22 individual is doing. Then bringing that to the Court, and 23 the Court acting as a reviewing body, so to speak. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's an interesting 25 point, Judge, and I bring one -- bring one illustration to 1-24-05 64 1 the forefront. Facilities Use and Maintenance, for example. 2 I believe you're the liaison for the Court for basically 3 courthouse and grounds; is that correct? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I think that's correct, yeah. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Commissioner Letz and 6 I are liaisons to the Court for the Hill Country Youth 7 Exhibit Center, both of which are under the umbrella of 8 Facilities Use and Maintenance, so help sort that one out 9 for me, just to get your thoughts on it. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think maintenance is a 11 unique -- it's different than everybody else. It's -- I 12 mean, it's one that almost has to be done by everybody on 13 the Court, whereas I think Animal Control is the other 14 spectrum; that I think Commissioner Nicholson probably has a 15 better feel for how that facility is operating than I do 16 anyway. So, I think you have to look at -- you have to kind 17 of maybe look at it department by department. You know, on 18 the maintenance side, I think you also need to bring input 19 in from, you know, the Sheriff, Road and Bridge, Ms. Harris, 20 I mean, everyone that uses that. So I think you have to 21 kind of look at each position a little bit differently. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I like -- kind 23 of like Commissioner Baldwin's idea that we set a timetable 24 for having the reviews completed, and then we review them 25 among ourselves, and with -- your thought was to -- with the 1-24-05 65 1 employee in question; is that correct? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And have that done 4 before the budgetary process begins. And I kind of like 5 those thoughts as well. So, I would move that we begin the 6 process using the form that's available to us through the 7 Treasurer's personnel office, and that the process be 8 completed by the end of June of 2005, with any -- any 9 review -- subsequent reviews that are required also to have 10 been conducted by that time. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Any 13 question or discussion on the motion? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question. Do you 15 envision, as -- and Animal Control is an example. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I like that thought, 17 yes. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And we can -- I guess in 19 the initial rating, when we hand out the questionnaires, we 20 can kind of outline -- or put a proposal maybe back on the 21 agenda as to how we handle each department, 'cause I think 22 you have to look at each one individually as to how we 23 handle it, 'cause they're very different. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: By "initial rating," you're 25 talking about evaluation? 1-24-05 66 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that's good, 2 Commissioner. One other thought occurs to me. We get the 3 form, perhaps, and get the Judge to spec out some basic 4 guidelines and bring it back to the Court one more time, but 5 get the process going today. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 7 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 8 your right hand. 9 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. The 13 next item on the agenda is to consider, discuss, and take 14 appropriate action on a resolution in support of a 15 Knipling-Bushland effort to cause the United States 16 Department of Agriculture to do a feasibility study for 17 funds to construct a replacement laboratory facility here in 18 Kerr County. Commissioner Williams? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Members of the Court, 20 I put this on after Judge Tinley and I both attended a KEDF 21 meeting at the Knipling-Bushland facility located on -- just 22 north of town on Highway 16. I suggest that probably a lot 23 of folks in Kerr County have never been out there to see 24 just exactly what that site does do, and it's really 25 tremendously interesting. This was the same -- that was the 1-24-05 67 1 resolution that was referred to by Mr. Overby earlier today, 2 and what it seeks to do is to cause the United States 3 Department of Agriculture to initiate the feasibility study 4 necessary to get the ball rolling in that regard for funding 5 for a new facility. They are in desperate need of a new 6 facility. Those Quonset huts have been out there since 7 before World War I. I believe they've been out there a 8 long, long time, and it's just amazing what takes place. 9 So, all this does is to help us get the -- help KEDF get the 10 ball rolling for the good folks out at the lab with respect 11 to a feasibility study which will be conducted by -- I 12 assume by the U.S.D.A. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 15 approval of the resolution. Any further question or 16 discussion? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: A comment, Judge. 18 They talk about in here -- we talk about lime disease, and 19 they talk about cattle fever, ticks and all kind of things 20 like that, but in my mind, the -- the reason that this place 21 is so famous is they were so instrumental in eradicating 22 screw worms. Which -- you know, we can talk about screw 23 worms. I'd rather do it over lunch, but -- 'cause 24 Commissioner Letz and I have done that, talked about screw 25 worms over lunch, and how you dig those things out of the 1-24-05 68 1 brains of cows, and very -- very interesting and 2 educational. I just can't believe they don't talk about 3 that. You know, I notice he didn't talk about it this 4 morning. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I noticed that. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And not in here. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They still breed the 8 flies out there, however. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, they still have 10 the flies. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They're breeding 12 those buggers. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's something to see. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It is. I mean, I agree 15 with what Commissioner Baldwin said, but also with the 16 resolution. That is a phenomenal facility, and it's amazing 17 what they do in those old Quonset huts. I've been out 18 there; a friend of mine works out there doing some research. 19 I go out there occasionally. You go into these rusted old 20 Quonset huts, and there's a real lab inside, and it's like 21 going into a hospital lab. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: High tech. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: High tech. It's quite 24 amazing, the stuff that's out there. But it is truly a 25 tremendous asset to the community. Unsung heroes, so to 1-24-05 69 1 speak, of our area, 'cause not a lot of people know about 2 them. But they do a lot of good work, and certainly 3 anything we can do to help that facility stay here and 4 expand, I'm in favor of. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 6 discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion, 7 signify by raising your right hand. 8 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 10 (No response.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 12 Moving on to Item 10, consider, discuss, and take 13 appropriate action on approving request of the Hill Country 14 Chili Classic for the use of Flat Rock Lake Park the weekend 15 preceding Easter, which would be March 18 through 20, 2005. 16 Commissioner William? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I put this on 18 at the request of one of the sponsors, Mr. Ferris, who's in 19 the room. Mr. Ferris, come on up to the podium and tell us 20 what the plans are and so forth and so on. 21 MR. FERRIS: Thank you. Richard Ferris. We 22 are requesting the Hill Country Chili Classic -- by the way, 23 this will be our 25th year to be held at Flat Rock Park. We 24 are specifically requesting the use of the park from the 25 24th, which is a Thursday, through the 27th. I don't have 1-24-05 70 1 the calendar; I believe the 27th is Sunday. We'll be picked 2 up by then for this use. Additionally, to coordinate with 3 the personnel of the livestock -- junior livestock building 4 for the use of 25 tables and 100 chairs. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You want use of the 6 park what days, Richard? 7 MR. FERRIS: Thursday through Sunday. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That will be the 18th 9 through 20th -- March 18 through 20; is that correct? 10 MR. FERRIS: No, 24th through the 27th. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm sorry. 12 MR. FERRIS: Easter weekend. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 24 through 27, okay. 14 In addition to the use of the park, you need some tables and 15 chairs; is that correct? 16 MR. FERRIS: Yes, sir, 25 -- 25 tables and 17 100 chairs. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In the past, we were 19 told that the proceeds of this were used for the benefit of 20 some nonprofit, not-for-profit -- 21 MR. FERRIS: Beneficiary this year is the 22 Hill Country Crisis Council. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Hill Country Crisis 24 Council? 25 MR. FERRIS: They're the beneficiary. We are 1-24-05 71 1 CASI, which is the Chili Appreciation Society. We're also 2 going in conjunction with International Barbecue Cookers' 3 Association events, and we're adding a new event this year 4 to help Kerr County in general. We're having a venison 5 cook-off. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Really? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Venison. 8 MR. FERRIS: We're going to add venison this 9 year. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Wow. I would move we 11 grant authority for the Hill Country Chili Classic to use 12 Flat Rock Lake Park for the weekend preceding Easter, which 13 would be March 24th through 27th, and authorize the use 14 of -- how many tables and chairs? 15 MR. FERRIS: 25 tables and 100 chairs. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 25 tables and 100 17 chairs. 18 MR. FERRIS: Which we will pick up and 19 deliver back to them. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And return back in 21 good condition. 22 MR. FERRIS: Correct. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Any 25 question or discussion? 1-24-05 72 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Question. One, is 2 this a request for exclusive use? And then the second is, 3 is there an entry fee charged? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There is no entry fee 5 charged, is there? 6 MR. FERRIS: To the people? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 8 MR. FERRIS: I'm sorry. To enter in the 9 cook-off or to come in? 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: If I come through 11 the gate on that day, am I charged? 12 MR. FERRIS: No. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Is it a request for 14 exclusive use, or will -- 15 MR. FERRIS: No. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay, that's good. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They do take over 18 most of the park, though. 19 MR. FERRIS: We are requesting your fees be 20 waived, and that the park be allowed to be open for camping. 21 MS. MITCHELL: Commissioner, I believe that 22 is the weekend of Easter. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It is. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We -- well, change it 25 to 24 to 27. We take out "preceding Easter weekend." 1-24-05 73 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 2 discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion, 3 signify by raising your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Why 8 don't we take our mid-morning recess? 9 MR. FERRIS: I would request one thing, Your 10 Honor, since you all are here in front of us; that you come 11 out and help us judge chili and barbecue. We need some 12 good, qualified judges. And it would also be very nice if 13 the county were to field a team to cook, themselves. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: When is the judging? 15 Is that on Easter Sunday? 16 MR. FERRIS: Saturday. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The day before Easter. 18 MR. FERRIS: Everything finishes up Saturday 19 evening. It's just some of the -- some of the people don't 20 leave till Easter day, but it's completed Saturday. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I want to come out and 22 eat. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You want us to put 24 together a cooking team? 25 MR. FERRIS: Sure. 1-24-05 74 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Wow. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Bill, get out while 3 you can. 4 (Discussion off the record.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll stand in recess until 6 quarter till 11:00. 7 (Recess taken from 10:30 a.m. to 10:44 a.m.) 8 - - - - - - - - - - 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order 10 for our Commissioners Court meeting. We were in recess. 11 It's now approximately 10:44. Let's move on to Item Number 12 11, consider and discuss implementation of the burn ban. 13 Commissioner Letz? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I put this on the agenda. 15 I'm handing out some information -- additional information 16 right now. This time of year -- I know Precinct 4 put a 17 burn ban in last week, and I started -- after I talked with 18 him, I thought about this whole process, and I know the 19 process we had last year did not work very well. And 20 that's -- by communication with NRCS, we put up -- pretty 21 much put the whole prescribed burning thing on them, and I 22 don't think they particularly liked the process. And we 23 didn't -- it was just getting a lot of confusion. I guess, 24 first thing, I handed out the new indexes that we're 25 supposed to look at. The Keech-Byrum one is a current one, 1-24-05 75 1 and it shows that most of the county is in, you know, very 2 wet conditions still. Parts of the far west, there are a 3 few little dots in there that are getting into the mid to 4 mid-dry range, but not very much. The other index attached 5 is the Palmer Drought Index. Unfortunately, they haven't 6 updated their web site since November, so it's not of much 7 use. Anyway, but those are the two indices we look at, just 8 as a reference that we tend to look at. 9 What I am proposing, first of all, I'm 10 proposing we put the burn ban -- 90-day burn ban back in 11 effect for the county. That gives each Commissioner 12 discretion to lift it in their precinct as they see fit. I 13 am still very concerned about prescribed burning and 14 allowing ranchers that do prescribed burns to continue. And 15 I think -- I think it's a very important part of agriculture 16 in this area to do that. The problem we have is how you do 17 that. The State, in 2001, passed a new law that certified 18 people to do prescribed burns, and that certification 19 exempts them automatically from any burn ban. So, you know, 20 if they're -- anyone who's certified, they can burn, you 21 know, whenever they want, regardless of what we do as a 22 Commissioners Court. The problem I see with that law is I 23 don't know of anybody -- probably one person -- actually, I 24 think he lives in Medina County -- that I know of is 25 certified around here. It's been kind of a law that was 1-24-05 76 1 passed, and not a whole lot done to certify people that I'm 2 aware of. Keith Blair, I think, is certified. He's the 3 only one I know locally; he owns Red Buffalo Ranch 4 Management. But I know people like Joe Franklin at the NRCS 5 office and people at Parks and Wildlife, to my knowledge, 6 are not certified now, and they're certainly qualified 7 individuals. And there's others in the county. 8 So, I visited with Rex a little bit to see if 9 we could come up with a new way of -- of allowing prescribed 10 burns, and that would be for this Court to set up a 11 committee that would approve individuals and/or ranches, or 12 a combination thereof, to do prescribed burns when a burn 13 ban is in effect. Rex says he thinks we have the authority 14 to do that. I'll let Rex speak for himself; he may have 15 some other comments. But, typical attorney that starts 16 thinking about liability, and he kind of wanted to narrow 17 the scope of what I wanted to do originally a little bit, 18 which I don't really have a real problem with. But what I 19 would recommend is that we -- in the backup, there's a 20 County Commissioner, a representative from USDA/NRCS office, 21 County Extension Agent, Texas Forest Service, probably a 22 member of the volunteer fire departments, and then a citizen 23 knowledgeable in prescribed burning. And if Keith Blair 24 would do it, I would recommend him for that slot. I think 25 we'd have the committee put together -- most of these people 1-24-05 77 1 are aware of my proposal, and they think would it probably 2 work. The committee would put together the criteria that 3 would allow people to do prescribed burns, and it would 4 pretty much be -- you know, we'd authorize that committee to 5 authorize people to do it, and those people have to follow 6 the law, do burn plans and things of that nature. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Jon, tell us once 8 again what -- there's two things I think that we -- 9 everybody needs to know. One is, what is a prescribed burn? 10 And is it -- by law, do you have to have a certified person 11 there to -- to have a prescribed burn? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The answer to the second 13 part is no, you do not need a certified person present. 14 During a burn ban, they are -- as I said earlier, they are 15 exempted from burn ban under state law to do a prescribed 16 burn. Prescribed burn is a burn -- and I'm going to 17 paraphrase a little bit. I might not be exactly right, but 18 basically it is a burn -- an intentional burn to improve 19 rangeland, to get rid of a bunch of dry litter on the 20 ground. You get rid of small cedar trees in our area, which 21 is the primary reason we do it, but it is -- and it is done 22 under a -- to do a prescribed burn, you really have to file 23 a burn plan. The burn plan is very specific as to -- 24 there's a lot of information. You have to fill out a form, 25 basically. The NRCS has a burn plan form. 1-24-05 78 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that who you file 2 it with, is the Soil Conservation -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You don't -- there's no 4 requirement to file the burn plan with anybody, and I don't 5 think we want to get in the business of requiring people to 6 file with the committee or with us. I think they need to be 7 required to do it. And if their fire gets out of control, 8 they need to be able to say, "We had it." And I think that 9 -- I mean, I really don't think it's that much of a problem. 10 The people that are knowledgeable enough to get past the 11 committee I don't think are going to be a problem, and it's 12 pretty simple. I mean, you can probably -- or anybody -- 13 myself and Joe Franklin alone, we can sit down with someone 14 in five minutes and tell if they're knowledgeable enough to 15 do an approved burn in Kerr County. There's some things 16 that you -- equipment that you need to have. You need to 17 know certain weather conditions, and those are the basic 18 criteria. And I think that it's a -- I think it would 19 probably work fairly well. 20 The reason I want to give the committee the 21 flexibility to kind of develop the criteria, I'd like to 22 hear input from the others. I have not talked to anyone but 23 Joe Franklin at great length. I've talked to Roy Walston a 24 little bit, got input from some of the others that do -- 25 that are very knowledgeable in this area, and I suspect we 1-24-05 79 1 may have -- I'd be very surprised if 20 -- if the whole 2 county was under a burn ban, that 20 people wanted to do 3 prescribed burns. It's just not that big a number. Most 4 people are scared to do them, which is good; they shouldn't 5 do them. They're -- you have to be somewhat -- very 6 knowledgeable in prescribed burning to be able to do them 7 and pull them off successfully. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Commissioner, would 9 the purpose of the committee that you're proposing be solely 10 for the purpose of -- of advice and consent on prescribed 11 burns? Or would it also be to gather information and advise 12 the Court in terms of suspending the burn ban, vital 13 information that's helpful to us? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we probably could 15 -- it could serve in that function as well as to -- you 16 know, giving feedback. The feedback I got from Joe Franklin 17 is he doesn't want a burn ban, 'cause he has a whole lot of 18 prescribed burns that's he's currently working on, and the 19 conditions are great this year for it. I mean, they're also 20 dangerous this year. If you do it on the wrong day, we 21 could have a big problem. But the -- the weather conditions 22 and the humidity are such, and the temperature, that it's an 23 excellent burning year. You have to know what you're doing. 24 So, I think it could be that. The idea of the committee 25 is -- the sole purpose, in my mind, is to approve people to 1-24-05 80 1 burn, or individuals -- whether it's a specific burn or 2 individuals, during a burn ban. Now, I don't intend on -- 3 you know, I intend to vote for the county-wide burn ban 4 today, but I also will suspend it in my precinct today. 5 It's -- we're just too wet. It's just -- I mean, I don't 6 think that it's warranted. But in Dave's area, there are 7 some areas on the map that are beginning to show some signs 8 of -- of dryness. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Couple comments, 10 Commissioner. I like the direction you're proposing. I'd 11 like to have some knowledge of the committee or group to be 12 able to authorize or -- or coordinate with or whatever, 13 prescribed burn plans. I also like the flexibility of each 14 Commissioner having the ability to either impose or lift a 15 burn ban, as we've done -- anyhow, the flexibility we've all 16 had over the past year. I've seen some interpretations of 17 state law that suggest that -- that a prescribed burn cannot 18 be done during a period when the Commissioners Court has a 19 proposed burn ban, but that's not correct. Prescribed burns 20 can be done during -- during a burn ban. The one other 21 thing I'd like to say is, I don't have a lot of confidence 22 in the indexes. I know it's kind of stupid to be 23 questioning the experts, but I can see that there are 24 conditions where the ground is very wet, but the grass is 25 very dry, and the wind's up. And, in fact, somebody pointed 1-24-05 81 1 out that wet ground and dry grass may be more dangerous than 2 dry ground, because if you get your vehicles out there and 3 get them stuck, then you can't fight fire. So, I think you 4 have to use some judgment, not just adhere to the two 5 indices. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One of the things I would 7 like to point out, in previous years, we've had the question 8 of whether we had the authority to put a burn ban -- or to 9 stop prescribed burns, period, and the answer is yes. Rex 10 looked at that, and we can. The County does have the 11 authority to say no prescribed burns unless you're 12 certified. Certified burn manager, I think they call it. 13 Then we have no -- they can do it. But we also have the 14 authority to -- you know, we can create a -- a committee and 15 allow prescribed burns under, you know, the scenario I've 16 basically outlined. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In the makeup of your 18 committee, Jon, you talk about volunteer fire department. 19 Would that be just an individual from a random fire 20 department, or would that be perhaps the KARFA head, someone 21 who could gather the information from all of the volunteer 22 fire departments and make some representation on behalf of 23 all of them? How do you see that? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I didn't put that much 25 thought into the KARFA aspect of it. It could be either 1-24-05 82 1 way. One of the things is to find someone who has the time 2 and is willing to serve. And that's why, you know, on the 3 -- I pretty much have individuals for a lot of these slots 4 that I have in mind, but I tried to make it as broad as 5 possible. I just think it is important to get feedback from 6 volunteer fire departments, because they're the ones that -- 7 you know, if the fire gets out of control, certainly they're 8 involved. And a lot of times in some counties, I'm sure -- 9 I think probably some of them in Kerr County, they go out to 10 prescribed burns and -- and get paid a fee to come out there 11 and help, and it's a good training exercise for them. So, I 12 think they need to be part of the process and be more 13 knowledgeable about that than other committee members would 14 be. The individual -- I'll go down the list. The 15 Commissioner, it would be myself. And just -- mainly, I say 16 myself because I'm knowledgeable in burning, and we do a lot 17 of burning in our own property. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm not. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The NRCS would be Joe 20 Franklin. County Extension Agent, Roy Walston. I have not 21 talked to Texas Forest Service, but I'm sure they -- I 22 suspect they would have someone that'd be willing to do it. 23 And the volunteer fire departments, I'm open for suggestions 24 there. And the citizen, if he'll do it, would be Keith 25 Blair, because he probably is certified, I suspect. He's 1-24-05 83 1 just -- he's been in court before. He owns a company that 2 does it professionally, prescribed burns. And -- but I have 3 not contacted him to see if he'd be willing to serve. If he 4 wouldn't, we could probably find somebody else. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If he's not 6 available, perhaps Chris Childs would be from Shonto Ranch. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Chris would be good also. 8 And I would -- you know, I think the committee could get 9 together quickly. I think the committee -- my 10 recommendation would be that the committee select one of the 11 many burn plans that are out there, and so that -- this is 12 one of Rex's suggestions; that we say this is the form you 13 have to file. You know, and I know that the NRCS has one; I 14 bet TCEQ has one, 'cause they're the ones that do the 15 certification. So I think that way, you say we want this 16 one filed. But I really don't see the purpose in having 17 them all filed with us, you know. I mean, I think you just 18 tell the people if they're going to do the burn, they have 19 to have these forms filled out. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is there any penalty 21 associated with, for example, doing a burn if you haven't 22 filed an appropriate plan, or would there be any penalty 23 associated with this, I mean, if a prescribed burn got out 24 of control and they haven't filed a plan? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, yes. I think the 1-24-05 84 1 answer is yes, if you're a certified -- one of the -- part 2 of that, and there are people that are professional that 3 they really envision. You have to have a million-dollar -- 4 isn't it, Rex? -- million-dollar liability policy to be 5 certified. The -- the courts have held traditionally -- I 6 think that this may have changed a little bit, or may be in 7 the process of changing. If you do a burn that's 8 authorized, which this would be, or a prescribed burn in a 9 period when you do not have a burn ban in place, that -- and 10 you follow certain procedures, you are exempt from liability 11 if it gets out of control. If you don't do a burn plan and 12 you don't do anything, you just go out there and say I want 13 to burn off this pasture today, throw a match out there, and 14 that fire gets away, you are going to be held liable. It's 15 more as a liability issue when you get to court, and it 16 protects the person doing the fire more than anything else. 17 But if you do burn, if you do a prescribed burn under normal 18 conditions, have a burn plan, I think the courts have pretty 19 much held that you're -- you know, you're not going to be 20 liable for damage if it gets out of control. I can see we 21 put Commissioner 1 to sleep. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. No, I -- I just 23 remember the 427 million meetings and workshops I've been to 24 as a Commissioner that the -- this particular issue kind 25 of -- I'm trying to think of the state property out past 1-24-05 85 1 Hunt. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Experimental 3 station. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The experimental 5 station. They put on a burn occasionally out there, and 6 they've had -- they've invited the public to it. I've been 7 out there several times, and it's one of the most 8 interesting things. They -- they get down to the barometric 9 pressure and lots of issues involved in it, and to get the 10 best burn where they can almost control what they burn and 11 how hot the fire's going to be and the whole thing. It's 12 just -- it's really interesting stuff. So, I wasn't asleep. 13 I was just -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just thinking. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Quite a long time 16 ago, maybe 10 or 15 years, I went to the workshop on fire. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Uh-huh. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And I learned a lot, 19 how good fire is. But one thing I remember is the 20 instructor started off the lecture with, "Smokey the Bear is 21 a liar." He went on to prove burning is good and you need 22 to burn. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And then, also, I 25 can tell you that they burned a prescribed burn last Friday 1-24-05 86 1 at the experimental station and two other places. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Part of the -- if you do 3 a prescribed burn according to the -- the law, the way 4 you're supposed to do them, whether there's a burn ban or 5 not, notification of proper authorities is part of that burn 6 plan. The other thing that I haven't mentioned -- this 7 really goes toward our administrative assistant. In the 8 past, we've had a fairly lengthy message that goes on the 9 recording as to, you know, if you're in this precinct, this 10 and this, all these different things. I think the easiest 11 way to handle it is just to say if you, you know, are 12 interested in doing a prescribed burn, call Kathy, and then 13 she can get us in touch with the committee. I think it's 14 going to be easier that way. I don't think there's that 15 many calls that come in. 16 MS. MITCHELL: Yes, I get a lot of calls. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, we still -- we need 18 someone for them to call. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He's talking about 20 prescribed burns. 21 MS. MITCHELL: Yes, I get a lot of calls on 22 those also. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But on the -- you know, 24 and the prescribed -- for example, burning a brush pile can 25 never be a prescribed burn. That's just not -- you know, in 1-24-05 87 1 a burn ban, a brush pile's not going to be burned. That's 2 just the way it is. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What amazes me on the 4 burn ban issue is that I don't see much smoke around -- I 5 drive around the county and I kind of look for those kind of 6 things, and I hardly ever see any smoke coming up. Letz, I 7 think his ranch filled that part of the county a couple 8 weeks ago. But you can rest assured, if we was to put the 9 burn ban on today, our phone -- I mean, people have to burn 10 today. I don't know if they wait for us to put the burn ban 11 on or what so they can burn. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They anticipate we're 13 going to put it on. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But it absolutely 15 happens. They anticipate, and it happens. The phone will 16 be ringing off the wall tonight. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What do we know 18 about -- what do we know about conditions, other than the 19 index that you provided us, I mean, current information from 20 our volunteer fire departments, current conditions? What do 21 we know today? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we know that if 23 -- you know, if you're on an undergrazed pasture, with the 24 rain we've had this year, there's a huge amount of very dry 25 fuel on the ground. You know, we know that there -- and, 1-24-05 88 1 you know, with a dry norther when it blows in, that's a 2 dangerous situation. There's enough ground moisture that 3 the humidity -- most of the days, without the northers 4 coming in, the humidities are about 50 to 60 percent, ideal 5 for burning, 'cause we have a lot of moisture in the air, 6 which helps a whole lot with suppression during the burn, 7 there's no question. There was a -- a guy was building a 8 fence just on the east side of Lane Valley in eastern Kerr 9 County, and a spark hit the grass on a day that -- a week 10 ago Saturday, and that fire -- it burned, almost took two 11 structures down. It took the Comfort Fire Department and 12 the Center Point Fire Department to get it under control, 13 and it was about 200 feet from getting into a cedar break, 14 where it would have burned until the wind switched. But 15 that was -- that's a -- you know, that was the wrong spark 16 at the wrong time, and had nothing to do with prescribed 17 burning or -- carelessness, I guess, from a spark from a 18 welder building a fence. 19 But, you know, the conditions are such that a 20 fire on the wrong day is very, very dangerous this year. 21 And that's the reason I think a burn ban is, you know, 22 certainly warranted in parts; certainly in the -- from what 23 I hear and see, out in western Kerr County probably more 24 than any other area. Because the -- you know, you can't -- 25 you cannot do prescribed burns and -- a weekend prescribed 1-24-05 89 1 burn; you can't say, "Okay, Saturday I'm going to go burn." 2 You have to really look at the weather conditions, and you 3 burn when you can burn, when the conditions are right. I 4 know that Joe Franklin was going burn just past the Kerr 5 Wildlife Management area last week; he was planning on it, 6 but the winds never shifted to come out of the southwest, 7 which is what he wanted. We ended up with southeast wind 8 most of the week, and he called offer the fires. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Our expired burn ban 10 was what, a 90-day? And it has expired, and we had a court 11 order, I think, that enabled Commissioners to suspend the 12 burn ban in their individual precincts for a two-week 13 period? Or was that -- was that just an arbitrary figure? 14 And what would we be proposing? Again, the same two weeks? 15 A one-week? Or what would we be proposing? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think you can do any 17 amount of time, but you have to be specific in your order -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would agree. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- when it goes on and 20 off. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would agree. 22 MR. EMERSON: 90 days max. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: This proposed 24 committee, it occurs to me that that's absolutely the right 25 people to write the process and the procedures and rules. I 1-24-05 90 1 think it's too big a committee to act on any individual 2 request; that you probably ought to narrow that down to a 3 couple of three people. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would suspect, you 5 know, with the committee -- for example, I don't think the 6 committee -- or I should vote to approve myself. I don't 7 think Joe Franklin should vote to approve himself, or other 8 people. So, I think that -- you know, one, if you're going 9 to be participating in the burn, you should be excluded from 10 the vote. And I would say probably if you can get three -- 11 three people together -- 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Something like that, 13 yeah. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- that's enough to 15 approve somebody, because it's -- these are time-sensitive. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: First I'll make a motion 18 that we implement the 90-day burn ban in the same format as 19 the previous order, which allowed the Commissioners to lift 20 it at their discretion. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Any 23 question or discussion on that motion? All in favor of the 24 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 1-24-05 91 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion that 5 Commissioners Court establish a committee, as outlined in 6 our attachment -- well, I'll just read the names. A 7 representative from the Kerr County Commissioners Court, 8 USDA/NRCS office, County Extension Agent, Texas Forest 9 Service, volunteer fire departments, and a citizen 10 knowledgeable in prescribed burns. Those individuals -- it 11 would be to approve a committee and authorize those 12 individuals to develop criteria for prescribed burns during 13 a period when a burn ban is in place, and approving such 14 burns. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Any 17 question or discussion on that motion? All in favor of the 18 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion carries. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Aside from the names that 24 I went -- the individuals named that I went through earlier, 25 I would ask the Court to give me discretion to ask other 1-24-05 92 1 people to serve on the committee, such as the volunteer fire 2 representative, and I'd welcome any input from other members 3 of the Court. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why don't we take it 5 one step further and officially appoint you on that 6 committee, and then with instructions to figure out who the 7 others are going to be. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's fine, too. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's just bless him. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I second that 11 motion. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second 13 to appoint Commissioner Letz to constitute the committee. 14 Any question or discussion? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Does that include the 16 blessing? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, you get the 18 blessing with that. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Part of the second, wasn't it? 20 Any question or discussion on that? All in favor of the 21 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Now, 1-24-05 93 1 let's move to Item 12, consider and discuss -- 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If I may real quick, 3 Judge, does that mean you have a 90-day burn ban now in 4 effect for all precincts? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Until I suspend it as 7 soon as I leave this meeting, for my precinct. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rusty, while you're 11 here -- I've seen you put your head around there. I do 12 think -- it has come to -- I've been calling both your 13 office and dispatch at K.P.D. just to make sure the word 14 gets out, 'cause K.P.D. is the one that works with the 15 volunteer fire departments. Do you recommend that that 16 continue, calling both numbers? 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. Yes, I think our 18 dispatch definitely needs it. We've -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Both get a lot of calls, 20 but since there -- since the K.P.D. dispatch is toning out 21 for volunteer fire departments -- 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Been responding to a lot 23 of fire calls in the last week. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You have been? 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 1-24-05 94 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Any particular area 2 of the county, or all areas? 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: East. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pardon? 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: East. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mine? 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yours and his. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's his ranch. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Somebody's burning a 10 whole lot of something down there, and half of them are 11 getting out of control. I don't know what your humidity 12 reports say, but after 10 o'clock, it changes and the fires 13 get away. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Are we in a position to 15 move on? Let's go to Item 12, consider and discuss 16 renegotiation of the interlocal agreement between Kerr 17 County and the City of Kerrville for Animal Control 18 services. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We have an 20 interlocal agreement between City of Kerrville and Kerr 21 County provided for the provision of animal control 22 services. The contract was commenced October 1, 1998, and 23 it will end on September 30, 2005. And -- but it would 24 automatically renew unless one party gives notice of intent 25 to -- to renegotiate. So, a lot of things have changed in 1-24-05 95 1 five years, and I think it's appropriate to -- that we take 2 a look at that contract in connection with the people from 3 City of Kerrville and come up with a new contract proposal. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Actually, Commissioner, I 5 think there are actually two different contracts; there's 6 one for the animal control services, and there's another one 7 for the facility operation. And they're -- they basically 8 have the same terms ending September 30, '05, if I'm not 9 mistaken, with automatic annual renewal unless there's 10 90-day advance notice of intention not to renew. 11 MR. ALLEN: That's correct. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And they also have 13 provisions for increasing the remuneration; is that correct? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the renegotiation would 15 throw that open if you give notice of intent not to renew at 16 least 90 days prior to the -- to September 30. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 18 MR. ALLEN: Both contracts require the City 19 to pay 40 percent of the shelter budget, and then 40 percent 20 of the animal control service. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: That's under the current 22 contract. 23 MR. ALLEN: That's correct. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. That, of course, 25 would be open for total negotiation if -- 1-24-05 96 1 MR. ALLEN: They both end September 30th, 2 2005, but they're automatically renewed unless either party 3 terminates, and just continues like it is. But it would 4 probably benefit the County and the City to renegotiate and 5 try to make it into one contract. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. So, my motion 7 is going to be that we approve the renegotiation of the 8 contract, the interlocal agreement between Kerr County and 9 the City of Kerrville for animal control services and for 10 operation of the Animal Control facility, and that we 11 authorize the County Judge to notify the City of Kerrville 12 of our intentions to cancel and renegotiate the contract. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And what -- I agree 14 with you. I'll second. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But I have -- 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. 18 Questions or discussion? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What happens after 20 that? When we notify the City and say, "Hey, we want to 21 negotiate here." Do you and the Judge trot over there, or 22 do they trot -- it doesn't matter where. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What I'd like to see 24 happen, Commissioner, is that they -- the City appoint 25 someone or ones who have the authority to make a 1-24-05 97 1 recommendation to City Council, and that the County likewise 2 promote -- appoint some person or persons who has that same 3 authority, so that we don't get bogged down -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I agree. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- with multiple 6 levels of approval, and that the two sides come to agreement 7 on a good contract that they agree that they will recommend 8 to the two governing bodies. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I like it. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I like that process, but 11 I think it needs to be expanded. I mean, Animal Control -- 12 it seems like we're doing it piecemeal. I know this one's 13 up. Obviously, the fire -- the emergency service contract's 14 up, because the City's putting us on notice. This one. 15 Airport, we just took care of that one, so it's taken care 16 of. What others do we have? Recycling. I mean, I think 17 we -- it's probably good to look at all those contracts. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Library. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Library. And I don't 20 know if maybe the -- I don't know the best process to 21 follow. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think Kathy is 23 compiling those contracts now. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think one of the first 25 steps would be, you know, to figure out all the ones that we 1-24-05 98 1 have, then notify the City about all of them and see -- you 2 know, probably get the County Attorney and City Attorney 3 communicating, 'cause they're going to have to be the ones 4 that approve the form, both of them. Before they really get 5 involved, I would think we need to know what the contract 6 needs to be modified to or what the new contract should look 7 like. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I kind of like that 9 approach. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The process we used on 11 the airport worked very well, and it's probably going to 12 take -- you know, on that one, a City Councilman, City 13 Manager, and a representative of this Court all met, ironed 14 out the agreement, and then got it to the legal authorities, 15 and I think multiple of that same process would work very 16 well. Like, Animal Control would be Commissioner Nicholson 17 and whoever the City wants to appoint. So I think, you 18 know, I'd like to see the letter from the Judge ask them to 19 appoint a City Councilman for each of the contracts. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: I think the only thing we can 21 address now under the -- under the agenda item is the Animal 22 Control. Certainly, I could do that, but -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, okay. I agree, 24 'cause that's the way it was posted. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: But the concept certainly 1-24-05 99 1 is -- makes every bit of good sense. You know, we got to 2 have a way to go forward. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let me ask a 4 question. Is there an imperative for doing the Animal 5 Control today? 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Commissioner, one of 7 the few things I've learned in the last two years is that 8 it's a very short time between January and October 1. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, I understand. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: If you don't start 11 early, you don't get it done. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand that. 13 I'm not trying to impede; I'm just wondering whether or not, 14 by coming back at the next meeting, we can incorporate all 15 of them as per Commissioner Letz' suggestion. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It makes no 17 difference. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No difference. We're 19 still going to have to appoint somebody for this one. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: All right. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You might just mention in 22 your letter that the process we used on the airport seemed 23 to work, so we ought to use that as the model process for 24 this year. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 1-24-05 100 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It did work. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I want to see if 3 Commissioner 4 comes back from over there bruised up before 4 we get too far into this thing, before you start sending me 5 somewhere. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I want to see how he 7 does the Animal Control before he tackles the library. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what I'm 9 saying. See what kind of bruises he comes back with. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'll never miss 11 another County Commissioners' meeting. I drug myself in 12 here off my deathbed this morning. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: In self-defense? Do I have a 14 motion? 15 MS. PIEPER: Yes, sir. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Do we have a second? 17 MS. PIEPER: Yes, sir. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second. 19 Any further question or discussion? All in favor of that 20 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: That notion does carry. The 25 next item on the agenda is to consider, discuss, and seek 1-24-05 101 1 approval of resolution in support for the funding for the 2 Texas Tech University Hill Country Educational Network and 3 the Texas Tech University Center at Junction. I put this on 4 here at the request of the publisher of our local newspaper, 5 Mr. -- one of the local newspapers, Mr. Greg Shrader, who 6 asked that this item be placed on the agenda. I think 7 the resolution is self-explanatory. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I move for 9 approval. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 13 approval of the resolution. Any further question or 14 discussion? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The question I have is, 16 why doesn't it include the one in Fredericksburg with 17 Junction? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It does. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The resolution does? I 20 know -- I mean, the earlier part, it did. I don't see 21 Fredericksburg mentioned on the actual resolution. All I 22 see is Junction. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, on the -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Number 1 on the -- 25 JUDGE TINLEY: -- "Be it Resolved," it refers 1-24-05 102 1 to Texas Tech University of the Hill Country. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Parentheses, Fredericksburg 4 and Highland Lakes, and -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: -- Texas Tech University at 7 Junction. Any further questions or discussion? 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'd just say that 9 opportunities for local people to get higher education close 10 by are critically important, in my mind; that we shouldn't 11 have to -- our children shouldn't have to be going off to 12 Lubbock or College Station if -- if there's a local option. 13 So, I -- I sincerely support these kind of efforts. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Me too. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 16 discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion, 17 signify by raising your right hand. 18 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. The 22 next item on the agenda is to consider and discuss the 23 status of the Legion and Granada tower contracts with 24 L.C.R.A. This matter was brought to my attention by the 25 L.C.R.A. people. Apparently, in 2002, there were agreements 1-24-05 103 1 entered into with the L.C.R.A. with respect to these two 2 towers, which have been utilized by Kerr County. The 3 Sheriff might have some more specific information about it, 4 but the agreements initially provided, according to the 5 motion given to me by L.C.R.A., that for the first two 6 years, there would be no cost or fees required to utilize 7 those two towers. Thereafter, the L.C.R.A. would give 8 notice to Kerr County advance six months notice that those 9 fees would commence to accrue. Fortunately, they went 10 asleep at the switch, did not give that notice, but they 11 woke up here a month or so ago and say they now want to do 12 it, and they've given us that notice. 13 Realizing that -- that we did not budget for 14 it during this year, they're wanting to start the fees 15 beginning in the last quarter of this budget year, July 1. 16 Realizing that we did not budget for it, what they have 17 consented to do is to not make the fees which would 18 otherwise be due for the months of July, August, and 19 September not due until after October 1, which would allow 20 us to take that into account in our next budget year. Now, 21 on the accrual basis, how the Auditor handles that I suppose 22 is up to him, but for budgeting purposes, it certainly is 23 going to benefit us, because we can fund a year and a 24 quarter in the following budget year under that agreement. 25 Strangely enough, I was only able to find a copy of one 1-24-05 104 1 those agreements. The Sheriff happened to have it. I don't 2 know where -- where the other one happened to end up. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I noticed, in 4 looking through these agreements, in a couple locations it 5 talks about the fee to be determined, or to be negotiated. 6 When was it determined, and how much is it? I'm looking at 7 the Sheriff; maybe he knows. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You can look at me. I 9 can't tell you exactly. I know, in visiting with L.C.R.A. 10 when this came up, there were two contracts. I think the 11 main contract mentions both tower sites, and what it 12 actually amounts to at this point is, starting in July, we 13 will be paying approximately $1,600 a month for tower lease 14 for two towers. Not each; total. That's about what it's 15 going to be for -- considering our budget. And then that 16 will go up each year, and their percentage raise. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I guess my question 18 is, are these arbitrary figures set down by L.C.R.A.? Are 19 they negotiated figures between the two parties? 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: These are actually -- in 21 dealing with -- having a couple of meetings, these are 22 actually a little bit low on what their normal standard fees 23 are. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Do we have any 25 alternatives? 1-24-05 105 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Not unless Kerr County 2 wants to build towers. Our radio system takes -- and if you 3 -- I don't think you were on the Court -- takes in four 4 tower sites, 'cause it's the simulcast system. Two of those 5 sites are owned by -- or actually leased through Kerrville 6 Telephone Company, and one's by -- owned by -- the land's 7 owned by Mosty, and the other one, land's owned by Parker, 8 and we already have been paying fees on those. One of them, 9 we got out of the land use fees by putting up the fence and 10 the building on that, if y'all will remember the one out 11 west. The other one out east, we do pay a small fee on 12 that -- monthly fee. That's paid three times a year or 13 something like that. And these two, back when it was done, 14 the Granada tower site, which is the main one out off Upper 15 Turtle Creek, for years and years the County had that site 16 at no fee; never did have to pay a fee for it. And then, 17 when all this new equipment and new building had to go in, 18 they wanted that renegotiated, and gave the first two years 19 free 'cause it wasn't in the budget or anything for them to 20 start charging. The other site is the Legion tower site, 21 which is off Cypress Creek Road. That's a very large tower. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which one is that? 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Legion is the one off 24 Cypress Creek Road, the very large tower by Red Rose Ranch. 25 And, unfortunately, it's -- tower sites and lease space on 1-24-05 106 1 tower sites is not cheap. We have buildings at each of 2 those towers. We have computer equipment, we have repeater 3 equipment, we have security alarms, everything else. That 4 all had to go in, and we had to get -- work through 5 negotiations with them back when the radio system was 6 installed for the use of the tower site, without having to 7 go out and build our own and take in the liability. There 8 were some other sites, like one at Mountain Home on the Hall 9 ranch that was looked at, but due to the requirements the 10 F.C.C. would have had and everything else, it was not 11 feasible at that time to go to that tower site. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Are these towers 13 that have other users besides us -- 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Oh, yes, every one of 15 them -- 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- hanging stuff on 17 it? 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- has space on them 19 except one of the bigger users. 'Cause we also have a 20 building at each one of those housing equipment, okay? So 21 we had to also do that. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, Judge, we need an 23 approval to do what? We're not going to pay anything to -- 24 we're deferring payment this year, correct? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 1-24-05 107 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So what do we need to 2 approve now that wouldn't be in next year's budget? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm not sure we have to do 4 anything, except that in the event we cannot find that -- 5 there's three different agreements. There's the general 6 conditions of the license agreement, and there's -- then 7 there is a specific agreement with regard to the Legion 8 tower, and a specific agreement with regard to the Granada 9 tower. The other thing is that the -- the charge that's 10 being imposed, of course, needs to be brought to the Court's 11 attention. The Granada is $1,030 a month. The Legion is 12 $600 a month. And the -- we're being given notice that 13 those will be imposed beginning July 1, 2005, but will not 14 be payable until October 2005. I suppose that there are 15 copies of these agreements somewhere, but if we can't find 16 those agreements, we probably ought to authorize the 17 re-execution, as it were, of those agreements so that we 18 know exactly where we're at. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Back when they were 20 done, I think they were probably filed -- the originals -- 21 in with the Clerk's office somewhere. I haven't -- I have a 22 copy of the master agreement which lists both tower sites 23 and all the equipment and everything on them, and I have a 24 copy of the -- it specifically mentions the Granada tower 25 site. Now, the way you read that, you could read it two 1-24-05 108 1 different ways, and it gives one and two on it, which would 2 have been when that was done, that it really was intended to 3 take care of both those sites, 'cause they're both owned by 4 L.C.R.A. But I agree with the Judge that -- especially 5 since, like Commissioner Williams said, a lot of those 6 agreements had in there, instead of dollar amounts, it was 7 "to be determined." And now that it is determined, I think 8 that's -- it would be wise to have agreements rewritten and 9 agreed to and that and signed and put on file at the clerk's 10 office. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, at this point, we're 12 just on notice of it, and it will be addressed in our 13 budget. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I think that -- 15 I think that we should go ahead and have something to let 16 L.C.R.A. know what -- what we are agreeing to do, so -- for 17 their own records, and so there will be an agreement. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We could accept their 19 offer to defer payments. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Accept their offer to 21 defer payments and start in budget '05-'06. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Was that a motion? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: For a monthly consideration of 24 $1,030 for Granada tower and $600 for the Legion tower. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Correct. 1-24-05 109 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just tower space? Or 3 rack space also for the -- 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes, everything at each 5 tower site. We have generators, we have UPS, we have 6 buildings, we have everything. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: That was a motion by 8 Commissioner Baldwin? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Second by Commissioner 11 Letz. Any question or discussion on that motion? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think that's Legion 13 and Granada Springs. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's actually just 15 called Granada. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is it? Okay. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: 'Cause it's not in 18 Granada Springs; it's up off by Doyle, that area up there, 19 right up on the very top of that mountain. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Don't get mad, Rusty. 21 Just trying to clarify. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's Granada. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 24 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 25 your right hand. 1-24-05 110 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. I now 5 find that we had an 11 o'clock item we just got to. My 6 apologies. Consider and discuss beginning the new County 7 Court at Law court coordinator at a Grade 19, Step 3, based 8 on prior training and experience. Judge Brown? 9 JUDGE BROWN: Yes, sir. Well, it's all 10 written down there. Barbara's going down to the County 11 Attorney's office and work down there, and so I've talked to 12 Kathy Gaulden about coming up -- coming down to work for me 13 from the District Clerk's Office. She's got three years 14 experience. She was in the system already. She -- she 15 works with the family probate -- I mean the family law stuff 16 up there, the domestic -- you know, the divorces and stuff, 17 so she'd be a -- it would be very difficult to hire somebody 18 that isn't familiar with all the -- what goes on here in the 19 courthouse. It would take me six months to even get them 20 oriented to what's going on in there. So, I think her 21 responsibilities, she -- whoever -- whoever I would hire 22 would start at a 19-1 anyway. That's what the job 23 description calls for. With her three years experience and 24 her knowledge of the family law matters and what goes on 25 around here, and she knows all the people around here, I 1-24-05 111 1 think it's going to be -- it would be -- I think -- you 2 know, I think she should start at a 19-3. I believe that 3 would be fair to her. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is this the same as 5 the -- as the position of the previous holder of the job? 6 Was she also a 19-3? 7 JUDGE BROWN: I think she's higher than that. 8 Barbara's a lot higher than that. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what I wanted 10 to know, thank you. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To be clear, I think 19-2 12 is acceptable because, I mean, of the longevity issue by 13 itself. I don't have a real problem with 19-3. I'd 14 probably prefer 19-2. That way it's more room for 15 advancement. But -- 16 JUDGE BROWN: Well, 19-3, there's plenty of 17 room. There's lots more categories, if you look at those. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If you look at it, 19 three years experience -- I mean, that is not so much, is 20 it? I mean -- 21 JUDGE BROWN: It's not -- it's experience in 22 what we do. See, I get a third of all the family law cases. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And this person has -- 24 I know she's been in the District Clerk's Office. 25 JUDGE BROWN: Yeah, she works up there and 1-24-05 112 1 she handles the -- whenever they have jury trials and stuff, 2 she's over there handling the juries. We have -- as a 3 matter of fact, we picked two juries; picked one this 4 morning, and we pick another this afternoon. So, she knows 5 that end of the business, how you pick juries and stuff and 6 all the paperwork that goes with that. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We certainly have done 8 it before. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 12 approval of the agenda item. Any question or discussion? 13 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 14 hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. 19 JUDGE BROWN: Thank you very much. 20 Appreciate it. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Judge Brown. 22 Appreciate your being patient with our delay here. Next 23 item is Number 16, requesting authorization for an audit of 24 the Hot Check account. Good morning, sir. 25 MR. EMERSON: Good morning. County 1-24-05 113 1 Attorney's office is requesting a formal forensic audit of 2 the Hot Check Fund account. As this Court knows, that's a 3 fund account that's generated by the fees that were 4 statutorily designated. It's been in existence since the 5 early 1990's. I can't find anybody that has any knowledge 6 that that fund has ever been audited, nor can I find any 7 annual reports relating to that fund at this point, although 8 we have no reason to believe anything improper has taken 9 place; I want to make that very clear. I think it's 10 important to establish a base for me to be able to go forth 11 and account to the taxpayers for those funds from this point 12 forward with the annual reports. 13 I've taken the liberty of having Gary 14 Davidson come out and take a look at the documents and the 15 paperwork that we have and give me an estimate on what he 16 thinks it will take to do an audit. After reviewing that, 17 he said it was basically impractical to go back farther than 18 three years. He's recommending we go back to the beginning 19 of 2002 and proceed from that point. To do a detailed audit 20 from there will run an estimated $3,000 to $4,000, with 21 $4,000 being the absolute tops. We do not anticipate going 22 beyond that. Thus far, I think it's important for the Court 23 to note that, thus far in 2005, that I have signed 24 authorizations accounting for and transferring accrued 25 interest of $5,800.25 from that fund to the County's general 1-24-05 114 1 revenue fund, where it was displaced funds that were never 2 transferred over. Furthermore, on my line item budget 3 itself for the month of January, the administrative 4 secretary position that'll be discussed in the next line 5 item has been sitting vacant, and even allowing for a slight 6 amount of overtime that was accumulated from the transition, 7 we should have about $2,100 available in that line item. 8 And, as such, we'd respectfully ask the Court to authorize 9 $4,000 maximum for a forensic audit. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm wondering -- we're 11 in the process right now -- our outside auditors are doing 12 the courthouse auditing even as we speak, and seems like to 13 me a couple of weeks ago we asked the Auditor, I think, to 14 visit with them about -- about the Juvenile Detention 15 Facility and possibly broadening their scope of -- instead 16 of doing their basic audit of the county and the juvenile 17 facility, to broaden it a little bit further. I wonder if 18 we couldn't include this operation and ask them to do that 19 as well. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What would be your 21 thoughts on that? 22 MR. EMERSON: My initial thought would be 23 that I'm somewhat in a conundrum, for lack of a better word. 24 We've already authorized a sub-account of the County's 25 treasury to be set up to run from this point forward, but I 1-24-05 115 1 have an unknown amount of money sitting out here in the 2 ozone layer. I need to be able to account for that as 3 quickly as possible and move it over and run from that point 4 forward. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with you. 6 MR. EMERSON: Mr. Davidson has basically said 7 that he thinks he can generate a complete audit in two to 8 four weeks. I'm not sure if the auditors that are currently 9 auditing the county can kick something out that fast. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They probably can't. 11 And you said you've turned over, what, $5,000 to the general 12 fund already? 13 MR. EMERSON: $5,800.25 so far, and I would 14 anticipate there being some more that will roll over. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the -- I mean, 16 the way to proceed probably is the recommendation of the 17 County Attorney; let him hire whoever he chooses. Doesn't 18 make that much difference, but in subsequent or all future 19 years, it should be included in the county-wide audit. And 20 I think that's a -- and it should be whoever has that 21 contract for that year, I think, if it hasn't been included 22 in it previously. So, kind of do a catch-up year, and then 23 it would go into the regular system. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, in future years, I think 25 it automatically would be, because it's coming into the 1-24-05 116 1 general fund, so it will automatically be picked up there. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, I -- so the 3 motion -- a motion would be to authorize the County Attorney 4 to conduct -- have an audit conducted by an independent 5 Auditor that -- of his choosing, the funds for that to be 6 taken from the dollar amount that he's already turned over 7 to the general fund? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we have to 9 declare an emergency to use those funds, because those funds 10 are in our general fund already. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's true. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But you said you had 13 2,100 in some other -- 14 MR. EMERSON: I should have approximately 15 2,100 in the -- I guess -- I'm not sure what line item it 16 is, but it's the personnel budget. Salary budget. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why don't you go ahead 18 and proceed with the audit, and we'll take as much money as 19 we can out of that, and the balance of it, we'll declare an 20 emergency at that time to pay the balance out of -- you 21 know, and not to exceed $4,000. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: See, that's the way I 23 would word it, is not to exceed a certain amount. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I accept that. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And if you were making 1-24-05 117 1 a motion, that's what you would say? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's exactly what I 3 would say. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If I were seconding 5 it, I would be in agreement with you. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Having accepted it 7 the way it was reframed, you may now feel free to second it. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I second the motion. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion was maids and seconded. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Work together. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Any question or discussion? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is tough work. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All in favor of the motion, 14 signify by raising your right hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Next 19 item is the requested starting salary deviation from 20 recommended position schedule, step and grade and chart. 21 Mr. Emerson? 22 MR. EMERSON: Thank you, Your Honor. Barbara 23 Holmes, who was Judge Brown's court administrator, has 24 applied for, and with his permission, I would like to move 25 her down to the County Attorney's office. She's currently 1-24-05 118 1 at a 19-7 step/grade. Helena Hannah that was in that 2 positions, who, as this Court's aware, retired last year, 3 was also at a 19-7, so it will not have any budget impact on 4 my budget. Barbara has been with the County since 1993 in 5 one capacity or another, and has been with the Judge since 6 1996. Her knowledge of the legal system and specifically 7 County Court at Law, which is the primary court of practice 8 for the County Attorney's office, will be invaluable. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, what you're saying 10 is if she moves into a new position, she -- the rules say 11 that she will start at a 19-1? 12 MR. EMERSON: That's correct. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And you want her to 14 just go in at a 19-7? 15 MR. EMERSON: That's correct. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for approval. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 19 approval of the agenda item, lateral transfer at 19-7. Any 20 further question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, 21 signify by raising your right hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. 1-24-05 119 1 MR. EMERSON: Thank y'all. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. Let's move to 3 Item 18, approval of a new hire at 12-3 and approval of 4 promotion from clerk position, Vehicle Registration 5 Department, to Senior Clerk in Tax Department, 13-5. 6 Ms. Rector? 7 MS. RECTOR: Okay. I have quite a sheet. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I gather these are two 9 separate items here? 10 MS. RECTOR: Two separate items, two separate 11 employees. I have a new hire. Her and her husband had a 12 car dealership here in Kerr County for over 20 years, so 13 she's very experienced in car titles, which are very hard to 14 find. And because of her experience, I would like to bring 15 her in at a higher level than entry level, bring her in at a 16 12-3. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: The employee departing that 18 department was at what? 19 MS. RECTOR: Pardon me? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: The employee that she would be 21 filling the slot, what was -- 22 MS. RECTOR: Is a 12-4. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So -- 24 MS. RECTOR: And, you know, that's this next 25 item. I'm moving that person to my Tax Department. 1-24-05 120 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move approval of the 2 first part, starting an employee at a 12-3. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 6 approval of the new hire at Grade 12, Step 3. Any further 7 question or discussion? All in favor, signify by raising 8 your right hand. 9 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Let's take 13 up the second one. 14 MS. RECTOR: Okay. I have moved one of my 15 employees that has been in that vehicle department for five 16 years over to my tax department. She is also my -- become 17 my backup in my Ingram office when I need another clerk out 18 there, if my clerk there is ill or on vacation. She's been 19 with me for five years. She's doing an excellent job in the 20 Tax Department, and I want to promote her to a senior clerk 21 position. She's currently a 12-4. I want to take her to a 22 13-5. And because I've had a many-year employee retire at 23 the end of October that was at a much higher salary, and 24 I've had some positions that have remained open for several 25 months, that I do have the additional funds in my budget. 1-24-05 121 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What is the salary of a 2 12-4 versus a 13-5? 3 MS. RECTOR: Let's see. 12-4 is $20,417 4 annual. 13-5 is $21,987. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's a 13-5 -- 13-4? 6 MS. RECTOR: 13-4? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or 13-3, I'm sorry. 8 MS. RECTOR: $20,928. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Seems that moving in at a 10 13-5 is pretty high. 11 MS. RECTOR: Well, that's -- the 12 position that's open is a senior clerk position. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But that's a 13. 14 MS. RECTOR: Right. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I have no 16 problem; if it's a 13, it's a 13. 17 MS. RECTOR: That position is a 13. The 18 senior clerk position is a 13. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd be more inclined to 20 start at a 13-3. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How many years 22 experience does -- 23 MS. RECTOR: Five years. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- did this 25 individual have with you? 1-24-05 122 1 MS. RECTOR: Five years. She's one of the 2 best employees that I have. Exceptional employee, fast 3 learner, and since I've also moved her as my backup to my 4 Ingram office, I feel that she is well deserving of the 5 additional salary. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do we hear a 13-4? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is this a bid? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just seems that going 9 up -- it's hard to -- I can see going from a -- into a new 10 position at a higher experience level than you're currently 11 at, and I look at the experience. 12 MS. RECTOR: Well, she's also cross-trained, 13 so that's an added plus there, because I can move her back 14 into motor vehicles when I need her there. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The senior clerk 16 position calls for a 13. Does it call for a 13-1 or a 13-5? 17 MS. RECTOR: It calls for 13-1 for beginning 18 salary with no experience. But she has worked in my Tax 19 Department off and on -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, if we put her in 21 at a 13-1 she'd still be the senior clerk. She'd have that 22 designation. 23 MS. RECTOR: If you put her in as a 13-1, 24 then she's taking a cut in pay. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, that wouldn't be 1-24-05 123 1 very smart. 2 MS. RECTOR: That doesn't make sense to me. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That wouldn't be very 4 smart of her, I guarantee. 5 MS. RECTOR: I'd want to stay where I was if 6 I were her. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion to 8 start the senior clerk at a 13-4. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to 11 authorize the senior clerk position in the Tax Office at 12 13-4. Any question or discussion? All in favor of the 13 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Thank 18 you, Ms. Rector. Item 19, consider and discuss suspending 19 Water Availability Requirements of the Kerr County 20 Subdivision Rules and Regulations. Commissioner Letz. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's come to my 22 attention, after visiting with Len Odom and reviewing our 23 rules, and also talking with Gordon Morgan, that the current 24 way our Water Availability Requirements are written don't 25 work, because Headwaters doesn't have the means to do what 1-24-05 124 1 we tell them to do on Water Availability Requirements. 2 Plus, there's a question as to whether there's a real need 3 for what we ask, which basically is a well has to be drilled 4 for a subdivision over 75 acres in size. What I recommend 5 is that we currently suspend them. Headwaters won't sign 6 the plat, because they can't do what they are -- you know, 7 what we're asking them to do. From a staffing standpoint, 8 basically. And I've been in contact with the president of 9 Headwaters, and he's in the audience, Gordon Morgan, and 10 we're really looking at whether water availability 11 requirements are needed at all. And the reason for that 12 is -- and that's really -- and I've told Gordon that they 13 should get together with Headwaters' board and ask -- I 14 mean, for them really to look at it, and that I would 15 recommend whatever they recommend, really. 'Cause the whole 16 purpose of this rule was to get data on wells, hence the 17 aquifers, to Headwaters so they could do a better job of 18 evaluating the aquifers in the county. So, basically, I 19 just think we ought to suspend it at this time, and then 20 after they look at it, and while we're doing our final 21 rewrite of our Subdivision Rules, we'll either include it or 22 not include it at that time. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What would that make 24 our minimum lot size be? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Doesn't change anything. 1-24-05 125 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Still be 5? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Only thing it means is 3 that developers will not have to drill a test well or get 4 any of that evaluation. That's what we're suspending. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second that motion. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, me too. It 8 was -- in the beginning, it was set up to assist the 9 Headwaters Underground Water District, and they -- if their 10 desire is not to have it, I mean, why be cumbersome? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's -- bottom line is 12 that, over time, Headwaters rules have passed up our rules, 13 the water availability requirement, and they are already 14 getting the data. The data that we were trying to get to 15 them, they're getting on any well drilled. Now, there may 16 be a benefit for us to come in with some -- some additional 17 requirements that would be beneficial, and Headwaters can 18 look at that, whether that's worthwhile from their 19 standpoint. And then, if they want us to put some 20 requirement in there, it will be up to us to see if we think 21 it's a reasonable requirement or not. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Question. Since we're dealing 23 with some of our rules, is there any requirement for any 24 public notice, or -- because we're reducing or relooking. 25 Public notice is not required? 1-24-05 126 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll defer to the County 2 Attorney on that one. 3 MR. EMERSON: Off the top of my head, I don't 4 know the answer to that, Judge. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't know that there's 6 actually a legal requirement that we do a public hearing on 7 our rules. We do it as a matter of public policy, to -- 8 from an information standpoint, and to make sure that we get 9 input from the community. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: I can understand if we were 11 increasing -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: -- the rules or -- or making 14 them further restrictive, but because we're -- we're 15 eliminating or suspending one, doesn't seem to make sense. 16 We wouldn't need to do it. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It will have no effect on 18 lot size or anything. It's -- the only thing it means is 19 that going out and drilling wells and doing certain tests on 20 that well will not be required. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: See, bottom line is 22 Dr. Morgan is one of those old geezers that just knows 23 what's down there. He doesn't have to drill a well to find 24 out what's down there; he just knows. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why did he just hire 1-24-05 127 1 his high-priced consultant to tell him what's down there? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I didn't -- oh, I 3 didn't realize you were in the room, Gordon. (Laughter.) 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Furthermore, that old 5 geezer won't sign the plats any more. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. He never would. 7 MS. PIEPER: There's a motion and second. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Did you make a motion? Any 9 further question or discussion on the motion? All in favor 10 of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We'll 15 move to Item 20, consider and discuss the reduction of the 16 registration fees during the Rabies Drive. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hi, Janie. 18 MS. ROMAN: Hello. The Animal Control 19 Department is requesting that the Court reduce the animal 20 registration fees from $5 and $10 to $1 during the annual 21 Rabies Drive. It will be held February 5th, which is a 22 Saturday, and then it will restart on that following Monday 23 and will run through the 19th in the local vets' offices. 24 Now, on February 5th, it will be held at four different 25 locations in the county from 1:00 to 3 p.m. 1-24-05 128 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 4 approval of the agenda item. Any questions or discussion? 5 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 6 hand. 7 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 9 (No response.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Thank 11 you, Ms. Roman. 12 MS. ROMAN: Thank you. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Next item is authorization to 14 pursue interlocal agreements for the placement of Kerr 15 County M.H.M.R. patients in facilities outside of Kerr 16 County. Mr. Emerson? 17 MR. EMERSON: Thank you, Judge. The position 18 we're in, gentlemen, is that the State of Texas has 19 determined that the Kerr County mental health facility will 20 no longer take civil commitments. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Say that again? 22 MR. EMERSON: The State of Texas has 23 determined that the Kerr County mental health patients will 24 no longer go to the local facility; they will be shipped to 25 Bexar County, Travis County, or El Paso. It's an 1-24-05 129 1 interesting situation, because my understanding with local 2 personnel is that they've been taking the overflow from 3 Bexar County and Travis County, so I'm not sure where our 4 patients will go. But the problem we have is that the 5 County Attorney's office statutorily is responsible for 6 representing the citizens of our county in those courts. 7 What that means is that we can either work an interlocal 8 with Bexar County, Travis County, and El Paso, or somebody 9 from my office is going to be on the road three days a week 10 traveling to all those other counties for a 10-minute 11 hearing. It's not realistic. It's not financially feasible 12 for a county to do that. Thus far, we have not been 13 contacted by any of those counties, but I would anticipate 14 hearing from them very shortly, and when they do, I need the 15 authority of the Court to be able to try to negotiate an 16 interlocal agreement to present to this Court. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, all these years 18 we've been taking their patients -- their overflow patients 19 in here because they're full somewhere, and now we want to 20 send ours to them. I don't know how y'all do the math, 21 but -- I mean, I'm behind you 100 percent, but that's goofy 22 math. 23 MR. EMERSON: Yes, sir. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Why are we having to 25 do this? 1-24-05 130 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'd love to address 2 that. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Please do. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Kerrville State Hospital 5 has been ordered by the State of Texas to take just forensic 6 patients. That's your criminally committed patients that 7 have not been found competent to stand trial. There are no 8 other patients going to be out at Kerrville State Hospital. 9 They have took in about 20 last week; they're going to be up 10 to about 178. And which means my officers and Kerrville 11 Police Department officers, anybody that has to be committed 12 from this county, we may have to drive to El Paso to take 13 them to a State Hospital to get them in. We took two this 14 -- this last weekend to San Antonio, but my understanding 15 also is those were the last two slots San Antonio had. And 16 last week we tried to get one there and they were full, so 17 all of them are full. But I think the cost to the County 18 and police department of us having to transport these people 19 to other counties is going to be horrendous, 'cause this is 20 a constant occurrence, and people that need mental health 21 hearings, you know, we're going to have to be hauling them 22 all over the state of Texas to who knows where. And then I 23 personally have a very serious concern as to whether this 24 State Hospital is -- has the security to turn into a Vernon 25 State Hospital, which is a maximum-security, criminally 1-24-05 131 1 insane, or criminally -- people. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: This is a decision 3 made in Austin? 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's a decision made in 5 Austin that is going to affect this county tremendously and 6 be a financial burden on this county, and I think a very 7 high security risk to the citizens of this county. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We begin to see that 9 Austin is a hostile foreign government. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is there any appeal 11 from this -- 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No appeal. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Any appeal from this 14 decision? 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: This is done, far as I 16 know. There's no appeal. And as far as I also know, I saw 17 a memo that was put out by the State Hospital this morning 18 that said this will be indefinite as far as time. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Parker, do you care to 20 weigh in on this? 21 MS. PARKER: Yes, sir, I do. Well, it's as 22 bad as it sounds, but it can get better. And that's one of 23 the things that we're going to be working on. What will 24 occur -- or the justification for this, right, wrong, or 25 indifferent -- I'm the messenger. I didn't create the plan, 1-24-05 132 1 but Mr. Kenny Dudley, who is the director of state mental 2 health facilities. What brought this on -- and I believe, 3 Judge, you and I had a short discussion on this -- is the 4 NorthSTAR area in Dallas has what they call a capitated rate 5 where they are able to send people to a state hospital for 6 psychiatric admissions, non-forensic, non-criminally 7 committed, at a much more rapid rate than any of the other 8 mental health authorities or community mental health and 9 mental retardation centers. They have made Terrell full for 10 about a year now. Terrell also houses forensics, just as 11 K.S.H. does, so none of those beds turn over that are in the 12 forensic category. 13 So, what Mr. Dudley did was to transfer all 14 the forensics to Kerrville State Hospital and to Big Spring 15 State Hospital, and that would allow more acute -- acute 16 admissions to come into Terrell, to San Antonio, and to 17 Austin State Hospital. I'd like to give you a little 18 history. And Commissioner Baldwin's been around a little 19 while and he knows some of this, but there are several of us 20 who, on many occasions, have gone to Austin to fight for 21 keeping Kerrville State Hospital open. Those of you who 22 were involved know that that was a real probability. There 23 are three state hospitals within a 100-mile radius in 24 central Texas. It's always been an issue that Kerrville may 25 or may not stay open. The only way that Kerrville was able 1-24-05 133 1 to stay open was to bring forensic admissions into the 2 hospital, and that is what Representative Hilderbran worked 3 very, very hard to do, see that they were brought in. 4 As inpatient populations shrink, even though 5 we -- with the demand, when you're the sheriff and you're 6 the police department, and we're the mental health 7 authority, nothing feels shrinking to us. But it does, 8 because community resources grow. State hospitals are more 9 and more on the chopping block. There was a study. There 10 is a group out there today at Kerrville State Hospital 11 that's still looking at the closure of Kerrville State 12 Hospital. With the possibility of it being forensic, the 13 hospital stays open. Economically, that's a good thing for 14 the community. But if -- if it's the sheriff, the police 15 department, the county and hill country, it's not a good 16 thing, because we can't send our admissions to Kerrville 17 State Hospital right now. 18 What we're going to do is look at some 19 alternatives that will perhaps address your admissions to 20 hospitals. I have a meeting with Mr. Dudley and Joe 21 Vesowate, Mr. Dudley's boss, today to talk about the 22 possibility of doing that. They're going to be over here at 23 the hospital for the closure group that's here looking at it 24 again. They're doing a second round in Kerrville and San 25 Antonio and Wichita Falls are the group that they're looking 1-24-05 134 1 -- they're looking at today. So, all of this is to say that 2 while it looks bad right now, I expect it to ease up in, 3 say, the next 20 days. But it does mean that the Kerrville 4 admissions from the Kerr County Mental Health Clinic will be 5 admitted to San Antonio State Hospital, and so that is a -- 6 that would require that you have an interlocal agreement, 7 just as many counties did for you for a -- with you for a 8 number of years to do their commitments. I would suggest -- 9 it would be my recommendation, knowing the fees, that you 10 try to negotiate down the fee of admissions there. But I'm 11 only the messenger; I'm giving you the information. That's 12 the most we know. I'll be glad to answer any questions. 13 Keep in mind, I'm -- I only know what I've -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Linda, do you see -- 15 this whole thing looks to me like -- like the prison system 16 10 years ago when we started filling up, and the great State 17 of Texas had to balance that budget, so they couldn't build 18 as many as they needed. So, is there -- I don't know if 19 this is a fair question to you or not, but there's a 20 possibility of our -- our mental health facilities filling 21 up -- filling up, and then we're going to start releasing 22 patients a little earlier than we should, and they're going 23 to be in our streets and in our emergency rooms and in 24 our -- huh? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Jails. 1-24-05 135 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Jails. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Be in our county jails. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: County jails that we 4 need to expand. We'll get to that later. But all of our -- 5 our system, and -- my god, do you see that? Am I -- 6 MS. PARKER: No, sir, you -- you are seeing 7 that correctly. There have to be provisions made. The 8 reason -- it's very, very difficult for someone to be made 9 competent to stand trial, which most of you know. And so 10 the people that are in Kerrville State Hospital now, the 11 percentage that would ever be released, it's not very big. 12 So, if you have the forensics pouring in over here holding 13 hospital beds, and you're having acute admissions coming in 14 here, and they keep growing in the forensic number, you're 15 squeezing down the acute admissions. So, it is -- it is an 16 issue that the State has to grapple with. What I would 17 recommend to you is that you look at all of that jail 18 diversion legislation that will be coming out this session, 19 make sure that that is the way you want people to be 20 handled. The -- the way that -- maybe "handled" isn't the 21 right word, but the dispensation of those individuals. Make 22 sure that they're going into the right system. There are a 23 huge number of people that do not belong in the criminal 24 justice system that really should be in the mental health 25 system, but when they commit crimes, there are laws in state 1-24-05 136 1 hospitals that say, oh, no, they can't come here, and they 2 can't live in the community, and they go to the county jail. 3 So, there are some issues that that does rightfully need to 4 be addressed. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And to actually make 6 it worse than what we're seeing right now, there are a lot 7 of people in Rusty's place that needs to be in the mental 8 health -- 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, to give you an 10 idea -- and the diversion she's talking about, I sent -- my 11 Jail Administrator and Chief Deputy went to Maryland for 12 some studies in trying to figure a way. They are trying to 13 help, but right now what's really hurting everything is that 14 out of, like, this last year, the 3,440 people we booked 15 inside the Kerr County Jail, M.H.M.R. had already dealt with 16 over 1,200 of those people. So, we had a third of our 17 population that have history with M.H.M.R., okay? Now, my 18 last comment I'll say -- and I don't blame the local state 19 hospital. I just have some problems with the -- what 20 Austin's doing to us without building up the security issues 21 out there first. Because I can remember when they took down 22 all the barbed wire around the fences out there, okay? I 23 know last month we arrested one that ended up walking out or 24 climbing over the fence or whatever, and was wanted for 25 murder out of Austin. 1-24-05 137 1 But my other problem that maybe the Judge or 2 the Commissioners can help me with is, the way it is right 3 now, we, as law enforcement -- if they're committed over 4 there as a criminal and needing mental help, if they were in 5 my jail, the public would have their name. Just like we 6 have -- or public's had the name of the people that -- the 7 one that's accused of killing the two people down at 8 Comfort, okay? We know it. It's public record. But 9 because they're over there, the way it is currently, law 10 enforcement has no right to have the names or what these 11 people are over there charged with until after they walk 12 off. And I think that's a travesty. And trying to protect 13 the citizens of this county, it's not getting to know who 14 these people are. 15 MS. PARKER: And I think what the Sheriff is 16 saying and what I'm saying is that the population is 17 growing. The issues surrounding them are certainly growing, 18 and it behooves us all to stay informed and have input in 19 the Legislature about what the laws are that govern these 20 individuals and what our right as a public is to know some 21 of these things. We have applied -- we are applying, and 22 the proposal will be coming in -- or going in on 23 February 15th for a Jail Diversion proposal that perhaps 24 will ease some things. We're applying for that through the 25 Texas Department of Criminal Justice. So, I know these are 1-24-05 138 1 not answers. I know it probably doesn't make you feel any 2 better, but I want you to be aware that we are -- our Board 3 of Trustees at Hill Country are aware. They've given me 4 their blessing to try to do some things to ease the burden, 5 because it's our job to represent you. You appoint our 6 board, and it's our job to represent you in the local 7 community to meet your needs -- your mental health needs. 8 So, we're going to work to try to come up 9 with a better solution. And today, if you feel as if I'm 10 behind the 8-ball, I want you to know that this all happened 11 -- we were in Austin in a meeting, and Mr. Dudley walked up 12 to me and said yesterday, "I shut down psychiatric 13 admissions to Kerrville State Hospital." So, I mean, it's 14 harder to solve the problem once they close the doors and 15 you have to build it. If they had -- they wanted to do this 16 in September. They had planned on doing this in September. 17 Had it happened that way, we would have had some time. We 18 don't have any time now. We're making up time. So, thank 19 you for your indulgence. I appreciate it. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just a quick question. I 21 take it that forensic patients are, generally speaking, more 22 dangerous than acute patients? 23 MS. PARKER: Well, criminal patients have 24 been -- have been tried for a criminal -- or have been 25 charged with a crime, and they have been deemed incompetent 1-24-05 139 1 to stand trial. Anybody else that we're screening and 2 putting in the hospital don't have criminal issues. They've 3 not had any hearing. They've not had any kind of -- they 4 may have had scrapes with the justice system, but not 5 regarding this psychiatric issue, so no. Many people have 6 psychiatric problems with absolutely no criminal involvement 7 at all, so yes. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, it's a more dangerous 9 population that will be at the Kerrville State Hospital? 10 MS. PARKER: Yes, sir. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Linda, if I heard you 12 correctly, you sort of alluded to there might be some light 13 at the end of the tunnel? 14 MS. PARKER: Yes, sir. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Could you expound on 16 that just a little bit? 17 MS. PARKER: Well, we -- we're -- we are -- 18 Hill Country is going to submit a proposal to the 19 department -- State Department of Health Services, and to 20 ask for some local options so that counties do not have to 21 transport a long ways away. I know this is a burden on 22 Kerrville, but think about El Dorado that we cover. And 23 Kerrville has been full for so many months that some of the 24 county judges, when I call them, as Judge Tinley will tell 25 you, because when I got back and we were dealing with this 1-24-05 140 1 mess on Friday afternoon -- which is a fun time, since the 2 majority of our commitments happen -- or emergencies, crises 3 happen on the weekend or at night. They rarely ever happen 4 from 8:00 to 5:00. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: True. 6 MS. PARKER: And I called the Judge to tell 7 him. I had called many other judges who said, "So, what's 8 so different? We haven't been able to get in Kerrville for 9 months." So, I do anticipate that San Antonio State 10 Hospital will ease up, but I -- what I will do, 11 Commissioner, is once that proposal is submitted, I will be 12 delighted to -- to present it to the Court, and would ask 13 your support in going to our Legislature, because it is a 14 rather novel idea of how we can have this taken care of 15 locally. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll be interested in looking 18 at it. 19 MS. PARKER: Thank you. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Linda. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Back to the agenda item, 23 I'll make a motion to authorize the County Attorney to 24 pursue interlocal agreements for placement of Kerr County 25 M.H.M.R. patients in facilities outside Kerr County. 1-24-05 141 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 3 approval of the agenda item. Any question -- any further 4 question or discussion? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll just make a 6 comment. We have some empty beds out at the Juvenile 7 Detention Facility. (Laughter.) 8 MS. PARKER: I'm ready to take them. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Don't have employees to 10 take them more than anybody else. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or 12 comments? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 13 your right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Why don't we break for lunch 18 and reconvene at 1:30. 19 (Recess taken from 12:05 p.m. to 1:30 p.m.) 20 - - - - - - - - - - 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me call back to order the 22 meeting of the Commissioners Court scheduled for this time 23 and date. We were in recess for lunch until 1:30. It's 24 that time now. The next few items that we have -- number 25 one, we have an item to go back to, and I think we're 1-24-05 142 1 attempting to get the County Treasurer here with respect to 2 the first item of business, and then the other items of 3 business, we're going to need the assistance of Mr. Tom 4 Spurgeon, who's the County's bond counsel and counsel in 5 connection with the Juvenile Detention Facility matters. I 6 believe the administrative assistant went to try and secure 7 Ms. Nemec; is that correct? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: She wasn't here this 10 morning; she was sick. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: She's ill? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: She was this morning. 13 I went down there and tried to find her. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, in the alternative, we 15 can go ahead and go to the approval agenda -- no, we don't 16 need to. All right. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I 18 understand Ms. Nemec's input's valuable, but can't the 19 County Auditor shed a little light on that bank account 20 business and what -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Possibly so. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- what we've been 23 doing in the past with respect to how we fund this plan? 24 Talking about insurance now. 25 MR. TOMLINSON: Are we talking about the -- 1-24-05 143 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Banking agreements with the 2 bank there in Omaha in connection with the insurance 3 program. Have you got any knowledge about that? 4 MR. TOMLINSON: I haven't talked to her about 5 it. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I went down 8 there this morning to ask what this -- what it was, and she 9 was not there. And then one of her people called me a few 10 minutes later in my office and said that she's ill, she 11 wasn't going to be here; that the County Attorney was going 12 to handle it for her. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: We heard from him, I think, 14 didn't we? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We tried that. That 16 didn't work. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's take up Item 22 18 on the agenda, and that's consider and discuss the execution 19 of an Engagement and Waiver of Conflicts letter with the 20 County bond counsel in connection with the issuance of 21 certificates of obligation by Kerr County to purchase the 22 juvenile facility. Mr. Spurgeon, this is a rather usual, 23 normal, routine matter. We've got it this morning, and I 24 included it with the -- to be distributed amongst the 25 Commissioners. 1-24-05 144 1 MR. SPURGEON: Judge, let me sort of preface 2 my remarks on this real quick. We don't have to remind the 3 Court about the entire matter going on with the Hill Country 4 Juvenile Facility, lease revenue bond issue and those 5 things. There are -- as you well know, there are statements 6 being made by primarily the bondholders in trying to hold 7 certain people responsible for the losses that they might 8 incur in connection with the lease revenue bond issue. We, 9 at this point, don't believe that we are, you know, a party 10 that they are attempting to want to sue us on point, nor do 11 we believe we have any liability in terms of -- of any of 12 that. But with any sort of litigation, those things can get 13 fairly broad at some point and all that. As you know, I 14 mean, as we -- if we are able to complete the certificate of 15 obligation financing, which is another matter that's on your 16 agenda today -- I know I'll be giving some updates on 17 that -- the County's released, and all the County entities 18 and all the County officials are all released and those type 19 of things. So, the possibility of the bondholders of coming 20 against the County would be gone. I mean, there's no way 21 they would ever come against the County. 22 There are other parties to the transaction 23 that might end up being involved in a lawsuit with the 24 bondholders, and if that happens, and if we happen to be one 25 of those parties, there may be some matters where we we're 1-24-05 145 1 going to be required to provide information and testimony 2 and those type of things or evidence, et cetera. And so 3 what we're doing in this waiver of conflicts letter is 4 essentially to allow you -- to formally inform you that we 5 -- there may be a situation at some point where we're going 6 to be compelled to testify. To the extent that they're 7 attorney/client privilege matters, that we would -- should 8 be able to, you know, not have to testify on those type of 9 things. But the fact that we are involved in another 10 transaction with you, in the C.O. issue, some attorneys that 11 are actually sort of looking at things for us suggest that 12 we seek a waiver of conflict letter from -- from the County. 13 More -- again, more of a matter of information, as opposed 14 to anything else. This is clearly not asking for release on 15 our part from the County. We certainly have no ability to 16 be bringing anything against the County. That's not what 17 this is doing by any means. It's simply to let you know 18 that we might have a situation where there's a conflict. 19 Again, I think the County's totally released from the 20 bondholders' perspective, and so I just don't perceive that 21 there would ever really be a true conflict, but it's 22 something that we were advised from lawyers that we're 23 working with, we probably ought to get a waiver of conflict 24 letter. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you 1-24-05 146 1 something. The County -- and, as the Judge said, everybody 2 on our side of the fence is -- is released. You know, we 3 agreed to that at this table. Does everybody else agree to 4 that as well? 5 MR. SPURGEON: When you say "everybody," the 6 only other party that is agreeing to that are the 7 bondholders. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Is there anyone 9 else that needs to agree to that -- 10 MR. SPURGEON: Is there anyone else that 11 needs to agree to that? The -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- i.e., the New York 13 folks? 14 MR. SPURGEON: Well, the bank -- actually, 15 the trustee. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Trustee. 17 MR. SPURGEON: There's a couple things, and 18 that's -- we're kind of getting into another agenda item 19 now, but if you don't mind, I'm just going to go ahead and 20 do some of that. It's all related to the financing, to the 21 consent and release agreement, which is another item on your 22 agenda. Let me step back for a second. I mean, what -- 23 MR. EMERSON: Can I raise one question real 24 quick? If this has anything to do with potential 25 litigation, it might be better served in executive session. 1-24-05 147 1 MR. SPURGEON: I mean, I don't -- I don't 2 disagree with that, so long as the Commissioners are okay 3 with that. I mean, some of these things are -- I mean, 4 that's certainly fine. I don't have a problem with going 5 into executive session, myself. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If that's what he's 7 recommending, that's what we ought to do. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, but this we can 9 probably deal with before. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. This does not, I don't 11 think. 12 MR. SPURGEON: No, this is probably not an 13 executive session item in terms of waiver of conflicts. And 14 if you -- 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Pretty standard agreement by 17 which a lawyer is advising the client that there's not in 18 existence now a potential conflict -- 19 MR. SPURGEON: Right. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: -- but things could develop 21 down the road that there might be a conflict, and you -- 22 we'd want -- 23 MR. SPURGEON: We're just trying to tell you 24 that those things might exist. We enter into waiver of 25 conflict letters, for example, sometimes when we're serving 1-24-05 148 1 as bond counsel and underwriter's counsel. Doesn't happen 2 very often, but in certain transactions we're requested to 3 kind of serve on both sides, so we're serving two different 4 masters, if you will, and we provide a letter to each party 5 saying we've been asked to serve over here, we've been asked 6 to serve over here. You know, there could be -- there could 7 be a situation where there are certain matters that might be 8 a conflict, and you'll have to seek separate representation 9 in that case. This is slightly different from that, but in 10 many respects, it's similar. We're just trying to inform 11 the Court that that conflict exists. You certainly have the 12 right to seek another counsel to do the bond counsel's work 13 on the C.O. issue if -- if you're uncomfortable with that, 14 and we can -- we fully understand that. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What is required of 16 us? What action is required of us? 17 MR. SPURGEON: The only thing would be to 18 authorize the County Judge to execute the letter on behalf 19 of the County. It would just really acknowledge the fact 20 that the County has received the letter and agrees to the -- 21 I wouldn't say agrees to the terms, 'cause there really 22 aren't any terms. It's really that you've just acknowledged 23 and consented. You've acknowledged the information in the 24 letter; you've consented to our involvement in connection 25 with the C.O. issue. 1-24-05 149 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Has the County Attorney 2 looked at the letter? 3 MR. EMERSON: I haven't seen the letter, but 4 if it's a standard -- I'm assuming it's standard language. 5 MR. SPURGEON: Yes. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you have a copy with 7 you? 8 MR. SPURGEON: Yeah. I mean, it's as 9 standard, I guess, as they come, and it recites the 10 provisions in the Code of Professional Responsibility in 11 terms of conflicts and those type of things. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have no problem with 13 proceeding, but I'd rather wait until the County Attorney 14 has a few minutes, so we can maybe come back. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Either that, or subject to the 16 approval. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, or subject to the 18 approval. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I've got one 20 question on it. I can see where the bondholders have been 21 injured. 22 MR. SPURGEON: Mm-hmm. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And I suppose I can 24 make a case that the County has; we're spending some money 25 that we would not have otherwise if this hadn't failed. Did 1-24-05 150 1 any of these other parties -- have any of the other parties 2 been injured? 3 MR. SPURGEON: No one else has been injured 4 yet, but there are some parties that the bondholders are 5 attempting to hold responsible. And -- and, for an example, 6 one of the parties has said -- it's the underwriter, 7 frankly, has said that if we get sued, I wouldn't be too 8 surprised if we turned around and tried to sue everybody 9 else. And, you know, we've been kind of through this with 10 them and with you and others, that we think their -- their 11 chances of prevailing are just slim. I mean, almost 12 nonexistent, frankly. Your primary -- if there's anybody 13 that had any sort of -- of claim for loss, I mean, directly 14 between the County or the County entities, then that losing 15 party or the party suffering loss is the bondholders. The 16 attempts to subrogate and that would -- and I think your 17 responsibility is far, you know, diminished in this case. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You made a comment that 19 the bondholders are going to indemnify us or release the 20 County, but if the bondholders go after First Security, can 21 First Security then come back after the County? I guess 22 they could; it's under -- 23 MR. SPURGEON: Well, to the extent that 24 Southwest -- or First Southwest -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: First Southwest, I'm 1-24-05 151 1 sorry. 2 MR. SPURGEON: Right, being the underwriter. 3 There's -- I mean, some of the -- of the words that they 4 have used is that they would want to come back against 5 others. I mean, they used an example that, you know, "They 6 only sold the car; they didn't build the car" kind of thing. 7 And yet there -- there are some other reasons that we -- 8 we've talked about before where we think First Southwest -- 9 I mean, their direct involvement in terms of responsibility 10 is -- is -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 12 MR. SPURGEON: Well, it has -- there probably 13 are some errors claims the bondholders have against them. 14 We haven't actually seen some of the written information 15 that has been alleged to be out there and those types of 16 things. But, from our standpoint as representing the 17 County, representing the issuer and those things, we believe 18 that the -- that the disclosure specified to the bondholders 19 is very clear. You had the absolute right to 20 nonappropriation. We don't feel that there's -- that any 21 reasonable court would ever hold the County or the Juvenile 22 Board responsible because of the -- we feel that you are 23 clearly within your rights, as we've told you all along. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. I'll move approval 25 of the waiver of conflict as presented, subject to the -- 1-24-05 152 1 and authorize the County Judge to sign same, subject to the 2 County Attorney's approval. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 5 approval and execution by the County Judge, subject to the 6 approval of the County Attorney. Any question or comment? 7 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 8 hand. 9 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. That 11 motion does carry. The next item on the agenda is consider 12 and discuss approval of consent and release agreement with 13 respect to Kerr County Juvenile Detention Facility and 14 outstanding bonds on same, and authorize County Judge to 15 sign the agreement. This was the agreement that 16 Mr. Spurgeon referred to between the County and the 17 bondholders, and the trustee for the bondholders. And the 18 latest draft that I saw has not been either approved or 19 rejected by the counsel for the bondholders acting on the 20 bondholders' behalf. Is that correct, Mr. Spurgeon? 21 MR. SPURGEON: That's right. There is 22 several points to that, Judge, and I'll leave it up to you 23 if you want to go into executive session. There are some -- 24 there are some points to that. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: When we get into specifics, 1-24-05 153 1 because of the potential for litigation there, I think it 2 might be well if -- if we did talk about any of the 3 specifics in executive session. But just as to where we are 4 on this thing -- 5 MR. SPURGEON: But your statement's correct, 6 Judge. There are -- there are several points that -- that 7 are still being negotiated with the bondholders' attorney 8 and with trustee's counsel on the matter of the -- so it is 9 not in a form that can be presented to this Court today for 10 final approval. But, I mean, there's been a lot of progress 11 made, but there are still some -- some points that are going 12 to have some give and take before we get those two parties 13 to agree to it. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Did you get any indication 15 that you might hear something back maybe as early as this 16 afternoon concerning the remaining points that are not 17 resolved? 18 MR. SPURGEON: Well, we're hoping to. I 19 spoke with counsel for the bondholders, Herb Bristow, late 20 yesterday afternoon, and his schedule was to speak with 21 trustee's counsel this morning, which is one issue that's 22 involved in this matter, following up with a call to the 23 bondholders, because there are some things that the 24 bondholders are going to have to agree to or those things in 25 terms of making some concessions. I've not heard from him 1-24-05 154 1 yet, so I don't know exactly what that means, but I know 2 that it's being pursued very vigorously by both parties. I 3 mean, ultimately, we'd like to have all of this wrapped up 4 and in bed and the C.O.'s issued by February 14th, which we 5 think we can still do. 6 And, Judge, I had a conversation with the 7 A.G.'s office this morning regarding timing on that, and in 8 terms of being able to recess the meeting coming on 9 Wednesday till next week. And I guess, for information for 10 the County Attorney and all, the issue -- and the Court, the 11 issue that's involved in the timing of the issuance of 12 C.O.'s relates to the fact that you -- that, under state 13 law, Commissioners are only allowed to levy a tax during a 14 regularly scheduled meeting. Now, this is a regularly 15 scheduled meeting, even though it's actually a special term 16 of the court. Doesn't have to be a regular term, just has 17 to be a regularly scheduled meeting, so that's what this is. 18 Now, the statute also says that you can take a special term 19 and you may continue that meeting until the business is 20 concluded. And that's -- that's really all the statute 21 says. That's slightly contrary to what it says about 22 regular terms, where the statute says you can continue a 23 regular term for one week. 24 So, there -- there are some distinctions 25 under the law, and we were -- what we wanted to explore with 1-24-05 155 1 the Attorney General's office was, we were planning to sell 2 the C.O.'s on Wednesday, but we have to have the consent 3 agreement signed by all bondholders before we even post the 4 official statement. That's not going to happen in time to 5 be able to do a C.O. sale this Wednesday. It's just 6 physically not happening. It just won't happen. But we do 7 think that the consent agreement will be formalized or 8 finalized hopefully within the next couple days, which will 9 give Bob Henderson time to get the P.O.S. posted and go for 10 sale next week. My call to the A.G. today was to see 11 whether or not she would allow us to -- or to rely on that 12 part of the statute that says you can continue a special 13 meeting until the business is concluded. She didn't tell us 14 yes or no, frankly. I mean, because she's never seen it 15 before, she was -- but she was, frankly, and I kind of 16 expect her to be a little bit conservative. She was not 17 comfortable with the idea one way or the other. 18 But what we can do -- well, let me step back 19 for a second. If we don't -- if we didn't do it this 20 Wednesday, and if we didn't get them to agree to this 21 continuation till next week, our concern was we'd have to 22 wait till February the 14th, which is your next regularly 23 scheduled meeting of the court, which happens to be your 24 regular term in February. What we can do, and what we've 25 done on other occasions, is that we have approved C.O.'s on 1-24-05 156 1 sort of a -- in a two-step process. We award the sale of 2 the C.O.'s and you approve all the final terms of the C.O.'s 3 at one meeting, and then at the next meeting, which will be 4 a regular meeting of the court, you would actually approve 5 the levy of the tax. So, we think we can -- in fact, we 6 know we can. If the underwriters are fine with this, if the 7 Court's fine with this, we could proceed with the sale next 8 week, award the sale of the C.O.'s to Southwest Securities 9 at the interest rate that they would determine through a 10 negotiated sale, and we essentially do everything that you 11 do in your C.O. order, except for levying the tax. We'd 12 come back on February 14th and levy the tax and literally 13 close that day. We would have everything through the 14 Attorney General's office at that point, and -- subject only 15 to them receiving a final order that would be approving the 16 tax. So, we do think there's still a way to close by 17 February the 14th. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There are -- I'm 19 sorry. Go ahead, Judge. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Following that timetable, the 21 remaining bonds would be -- the outstanding bonds would not 22 be in existence on February the 15th, then. 23 MR. SPURGEON: That's correct. That's right. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Which is the next due date. 25 MR. SPURGEON: Right. That's the principal 1-24-05 157 1 and interest payment date on these bonds, right. Or on 2 those bonds. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There are, however, 4 some details that are missing in all this. For example, 5 what is the interest rate on the certificates of obligation? 6 And, secondly, when does the first -- when does the first 7 debt service payment come due? I have not heard those 8 details. 9 MR. SPURGEON: No. And, in fact, we won't 10 know the final details on the interest rate until Bob has 11 actually come with the -- sort of the proposed final form, 12 if you will. I mean, in other words, they would go to the 13 market next week, underwriters would actually price the 14 bonds. Underwriters and the F.A. would agree, at least 15 verbally, to the final terms, which includes the final 16 interest rates, but all that's subject to the Court's 17 approval next week. So, next week those final terms would 18 be set. They would be -- they would be done. The only 19 thing that would not be done yet is actually approving the 20 levy of the tax, which would have to wait till February the 21 14th. So you will have all those final terms, Commissioner, 22 at the time you come to approve the C.O.'s. Your first 23 interest payment date, I think, is February 15th of 2006. I 24 believe it's set up as a long coupon like that. I don't 25 remember if he has an August 15th payment. 1-24-05 158 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's important to 2 this whole consideration, because it ties in -- when is that 3 first increment due? 4 MR. SPURGEON: I -- I don't have the draft of 5 the O.S. with me. I believe he set up a long coupon on that 6 because you've not levied a tax already for those C.O.'s, so 7 I believe it would be a -- stand by. First interest payment 8 is February 15th of 2006. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 10 MR. SPURGEON: So you should be able to levy 11 for that tax and pay that -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That sounds 13 reasonable. 14 MR. SPURGEON: -- a year from now. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: On the preliminary, I'm trying 16 to -- 17 MR. SPURGEON: Judge, it may be on the first 18 page. A lot of times it's in that very first -- like, the 19 second or third paragraph on the cover page. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: It just shows a principal 21 amount, '06. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where are you looking 23 at? 24 MR. SPURGEON: If you go to the cover page, 25 Judge, the first two or three paragraphs probably have 1-24-05 159 1 something about payment of interest. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Payment February 15, August 15 3 -- okay, commencing February 15, 2006. 4 MR. SPURGEON: Right. That's what I thought 5 he did. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that a document we 7 have, this consent and release agreement? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: No. No, I don't think -- 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you have something 10 we don't have? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: That's on the -- the 12 preliminary official statement for the full certificates. 13 I'm not sure whether you've got it in your package there or 14 not. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't see it. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: It's on the agenda for 17 Wednesday. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. It's on for 19 Wednesday? All right. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, mm-hmm. Yeah, it does 21 say -- the preliminary does say February 15, '06. 22 MR. SPURGEON: And that makes sense, because 23 you've not levied a tax to -- to cover that interest payment 24 for August 15th. So, I mean, it would make sense to have 25 that long coupon. 1-24-05 160 1 JUDGE TINLEY: The Court, I suspect, would -- 2 would want to be aware of what the difficulties there are 3 with the consent and release agreement, I assume. Am I 4 correct? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. That being the case, 7 because of those being potential litigation items, I think 8 we'd need to cover those in executive session, be that now 9 or -- I don't think we can go forward on any of these other 10 items until -- until we have the rest of this one ironed 11 out. That being the case, we will recess the open session 12 at 1:54 and go into closed or executive session momentarily. 13 (The open session was closed at 1:54 p.m., and an Executive Session was held, the 14 transcript of which is contained in a separate document.) 15 - - - - - - - - - - 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We'll reconvene in open 17 or public session. It's 3:02, it looks like. Does anyone 18 have anything to offer with respect to Item 26, consider and 19 take action to appoint a supervisor, Kerr County Rabies and 20 Animal Control Department? 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I move that we offer 22 the position of Rabies and Animal Control supervisor to 23 Janie Roman on an interim basis, interim period of time 24 being 90 days, and to make a decision about making it 25 permanent on or about that time; that the interim salary be 1-24-05 161 1 $27,500 a year, and that we'll reconsider the salary at the 2 end of the interim period of time. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 5 appointment of Janie Roman as interim supervisor of the Kerr 6 County Rabies and Animal Control department, such interim 7 period to be for 90 days, at a salary of $27,500 per year, 8 with salary to be revisited when the permanence or not of 9 the appointment is revisited. Any question or discussion? 10 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 11 hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, sir? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I was going to ask a 19 question. We had deferred some items that are -- were 20 attendant to the Juvenile Detention Facility. We deferred 21 Item 24 and, I think, 25. My question is, are we under -- 22 based on what we heard from Mr. Spurgeon today, are we under 23 a deadline for getting these things done? Do we have to do 24 this on Wednesday, like we had originally planned? Or if 25 we're not under the same guidelines of timeframe of getting 1-24-05 162 1 these things accomplished, could we revisit that Wednesday 2 meeting and move -- and not have it, and move it to Thursday 3 and include a personnel item matter that really needs to be 4 dealt with on the same agenda? We can repost for Thursday, 5 as opposed to Wednesday. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Aren't we going to 7 probably -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: The one for this Wednesday is 9 posted for this Wednesday, so we're going to need to take 10 that -- 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: -- that matter up then. Then, 13 if there's any further recessing of that meeting -- which, 14 depending upon circumstances, there may be further recess. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: If there's additional matters 17 to be taken up on the C.O.'s, with respect to that, there 18 will be an additional posting, probably for the following 19 week. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Which would be knocking on the 22 door to February 1st, actually. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, that's really 24 why I'm bringing the topic up. We have a need to be engaged 25 in -- in going through resumes and perhaps setting up 1-24-05 163 1 interviews for the Information Technology position, and the 2 sooner we get that done, the better. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Now, what we -- what we could 4 do is post -- post for Thursday or Friday a special meeting 5 for that -- for that item alone. That is -- that would 6 certainly be another option. But I think the way we're 7 posted now on the detention facility C.O.'s, we're obliged 8 to -- 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: -- convene that meeting on 11 Wednesday. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's fine. That's 13 the reason I put the question to you that way. That's fine. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's probably a 16 good idea to look at those resumes for the Information 17 Technology. I think we probably don't have time to get 18 somebody on board before Shaun's gone anyway at this point, 19 but we still need to get someone on board way before our 20 next regular meeting. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Some solution. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Maybe we could ask 23 the Auditor to prepare a packet of resumes for each of us to 24 take a look at, and then we can determine when we're going 25 to get together. 1-24-05 164 1 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't have -- they're in 2 the Treasurer's office. I can get them to do it. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 4 MR. TOMLINSON: Make copies of them. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd recommend we do it -- 7 well, we can do it this week. I'd say either -- Thursday is 8 a difficult day for me in the afternoon. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I've got Friday. Friday, I'm 10 open all day. Thursday, I've got probate in the morning, 11 but I think late morning -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think Friday's okay 13 for me. How about you, Buster? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I'm open Friday. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Dave is, if he's still 16 alive. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If he dies, I get his 20 watch. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's a deal. 22 (Laughter.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: We can do it around 11:00 24 Thursday morning. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Looks like 1-24-05 165 1 Commissioner 3 has -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 11:00? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Didn't you say afternoon was 5 bad for you? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, but -- 11:00 is 7 not the afternoon. 11:00, I think, works. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: On Thursday? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm busy Friday from 10 1 o'clock on. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: We can't get it posted for 12 this Thursday, though. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, not till 3:00. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How about Friday? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What time? 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Morning. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Morning. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Morning. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 9:00? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 8:00? 6:15? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 9:00 works. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 8:34. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: 9:00. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 9:02. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: 9:00? 1-24-05 166 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 9:00. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Friday. That means Sam 3 will be with me. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Bring Sam; he's okay. 5 I like Sam. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, Friday with Sam. 7 That's all right, he likes coming here. He can crawl around 8 back here. 9 MS. MCELHANNON: We'll take care of him. 10 (Discussion off the record.) 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did you read that? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I've got it to read. 13 I'm going to take it home. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's get into the 15 approval agenda. I think that's where we are, aren't we? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Payment of the bills. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move to pay the 20 bills. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to 23 pay the bills. Any questions or discussion? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got a question. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, what's your question? 1-24-05 167 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Page 17, Juvenile 2 Detention. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Number 171709, Caddy 5 Shack Golf Carts, $850 for a golf cart. Can someone explain 6 that to me? 7 MS. HARRIS: It would be paid from donations. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How many times that we 9 are -- we just had a knock-down, drag-out struggle with our 10 lawyer trying to figure out how to keep our heads above 11 water, and we're paying 850 bucks for a golf cart? 12 MS. HARRIS: It's being paid out of -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did you get clubs out 14 of it? 15 MS. HARRIS: And the caddy comes along with 16 it, too. It's being paid from donation money. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. So -- 18 JUDGE TINLEY: That needs to come out of 19 here, then, doesn't it? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 76-572-499 is donation 21 money? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So that comes off the 23 list? 24 MR. TOMLINSON: We had donations from -- 25 actually, it was some community service people that made a 1-24-05 168 1 donation in lieu of community service, and for this purpose. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So it isn't -- you 3 got the money. It's not coming out of the County general 4 fund? 5 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah, we have the funds. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. No clubs? 7 MS. HARRIS: No clubs. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, the donation came 9 in and then it went right back out? 10 MR. TOMLINSON: Correct. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What is Fund 499? 12 MR. TOMLINSON: That's miscellaneous. 13 Miscellaneous line item. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Miscellaneous? 15 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ten-four. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You have to admit, 19 that was a good question. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: It was a good question. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I got one, just not 22 quite as expensive as yours. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: I see. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Page 9. Why would we 25 owe Back 40 Supply a $1 finance charge? My gosh. 1-24-05 169 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is a tough one. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a toughy. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't know. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tommy, how could you? 5 I thought we've had these talks. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What is that? And 7 then also, the bottom one there, coffee pots. Walmart 8 Community for coffee pots for the -- 9 JUDGE TINLEY: What page are you on? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- Youth Exhibition 11 Center. I'm on Page 9. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Bill, you hit the 13 tough ones, I'm telling you. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I hit the big guys. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, is your question as 16 to why we're buying coffee pots out there? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's one of them. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are we buying them for 19 us? For the stock show? Who are we buying them for? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And it's plural, 22 "pots." 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pots. And why are we 24 buying them? Other departments don't take them out of 25 County funds. 1-24-05 170 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's right. You're 2 right. Dang. Could we lump that in with that $1 deal and 3 get Rusty to do an investigation? 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Someday it will run 5 into real money. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't want to do it 7 that way, 'cause Rusty will want another deputy. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Sounds good to me. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a good 10 question. We don't buy coffee any more. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We don't buy coffee. 12 Never seen pots, but we don't buy coffee pots. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: I bought a bunch of coffee 14 pots, put them downstairs. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: I can find out. But I'm sure 16 that if Mr. Holekamp was here, he could tell us -- give us a 17 good answer. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I suspect someone can 19 give us a good answer. It may not comport with others we've 20 had, but I bet we can get a good answer. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I've got a question on Page 1, 22 under Nondepartmental. We're paying $1,649 for 65 cartons 23 of copy paper; that's $25.37 per. And the Sheriff, over on 24 Page 6, is paying $528.60 for 40 cartons, which is $13.20 25 per. I want to know how he's getting it so cheap, and why 1-24-05 171 1 we're not getting all of it at his price. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He owns his own paper 3 mill. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Trade secrets. I can't 5 say. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Huh? 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Trade secrets. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I mean, if we're talking about 9 8 1/2 by 11 copy paper in both instances, you know, we -- we 10 need to be buying it at the lowest price. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where do you buy 12 yours? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: It may be that the number 14 of -- number of cartons is not correct on -- 15 MR. TOMLINSON: It could be that -- well, I 16 don't know if that's a direct payment. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't believe it is. 18 I think all of our -- 19 MR. TOMLINSON: We're buying it in bulk, and 20 it probably is some paper that we already had that was a 21 cheaper price that we charged his department for. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The County here buys all 23 the paper, and then we get it from here and Tommy charges 24 us. 25 MR. TOMLINSON: We do interdepartmental 1-24-05 172 1 journal entries, and we -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: I can't imagine that the cost 3 of paper went up almost 100 percent. 4 MR. TOMLINSON: Could be a different quality 5 paper, too. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Could be. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tommy answered the 8 question. We centralize our paper purchases. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I know it comes in downstairs 10 and then it gets charged out. 11 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: But if we're going to charge 13 it out, we need to charge it out at a higher number instead 14 of the lower number. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Oh, no, huh-uh. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We have a motion and 17 second to pay the bills, excluding the golf cart? Is that 18 correct? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It has to be paid, 20 right? Already got the money. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: We have the money for it. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Including the golf 23 cart, all right. Any further questions or discussion? All 24 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 1-24-05 173 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Any 4 budget amendments? 5 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, I have one. That's for 6 the payroll for the juvenile facility. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 8 MR. TOMLINSON: We need -- I visited with 9 Becky this morning, and payroll -- her estimate is around 10 54,000. We have checks in today for 25, and so when I pay 11 today's bills, less the 25,000, plus the payroll, we need 12 $45,000 for -- for the 31st. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 45,000? 14 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes, sir. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what you need? 16 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move we declare an 18 emergency and fund the estimated cost up to $45,000, as 19 presented by the Auditor. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded up to 22 $45,000 after declaration of emergency for Juvenile 23 Detention. Any question or discussion? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question. Where are we 25 on finalizing the budget for that department? And -- so we 1-24-05 174 1 can do this in one fell swoop, put it in the budget? 2 MS. HARRIS: I was given the 2003/2004 grade 3 and step matrix when I constructed the budget sometime 4 before, and when I constructed this last budget that I had 5 -- the very last copy that I gave you, that's just the two 6 columns. I have since been given the 2004-2005 matrix, so 7 I'm in the process of going back and trying to plug in all 8 the employees in the 2004-2005 matrix. And I need the 9 Court's guidance on how you want me to handle this. There 10 is one group of personnel, my control people, that there is 11 no grade, because the 2003/2004 matrix has grade groups 7, 12 8, 9, 10, and 11. I've been informed that those no longer 13 exist in the County matrix; that it starts at 12. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I thought 14. 16 MS. HARRIS: Starts at 12. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I thought we dropped 18 the 12. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think you have 12. 20 You're going to work on that in the next budget year to get 21 the 12's up. 22 MS. HARRIS: Still have 12. My control 23 people were previously in the Grade 7. Well -- yeah. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What are control people? 25 MS. HARRIS: Handling my control room. 1-24-05 175 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh. 2 MS. HARRIS: They push a button and open a 3 door. They handle the control room and they watch the 4 monitors and they answer the phone in the control room. 5 And, therefore, what I'm getting at is, I need to create a 6 Grade 11 just for them. Just one more. Because they -- 7 they do not get paid what the J.D.O.'s get paid, and the 8 J.D.O.'s get paid 12 -- Grade 12, Step 1. And they don't 9 receive that much of a salary. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is there any reason 11 why you couldn't -- you couldn't create that line, based 12 on -- 13 MS. HARRIS: I can create that line. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And present that with 15 all the others at the same time? 16 MS. HARRIS: I called Barbara, and Barbara 17 told me how to create that line, what I needed to do 18 mathematically to create that line. So, I'll create that 19 line and then plug the control people in there, and then 20 plug everybody else in the best that I can and try to fit 21 them -- everybody else into the existing matrix without 22 having to create anything else. As soon as I do that, then 23 it's done. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 25 MS. HARRIS: In fact, if you want to put it 1-24-05 176 1 on the agenda for the next regular Commissioners Court 2 meeting, I'll have it. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What is your salary 4 going to do? 5 MS. HARRIS: I'm sorry? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What is your -- how 7 far down is your salary coming? 8 MS. HARRIS: You don't have a pay group for 9 my salary. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We'll create one. 11 MS. HARRIS: I'll create one. No, I'm 12 kidding. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I want to see it on next 14 year's -- not next year's, our next meeting, so we can kind 15 of set a budget and then authorize the funds into all those 16 line items at one time. Hopefully, it will get us through 17 the year. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're setting the 19 budget for, say, February 1st through September 31st -- 20 September 30th? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 22 MS. HARRIS: I'm sorry? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We'd be setting 24 whatever you determine, you know, your expenses would be; 25 that, for example, from February 1st, budget through the end 1-24-05 177 1 of the current -- 2 MS. HARRIS: Fiscal year, September 30th. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 4 MS. HARRIS: Right. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Then do it all over 6 again. 7 MS. HARRIS: So, instead of a nine-month 8 budget, I'd be creating approximately an eight-month budget, 9 correct? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And then we'd know 11 exactly what our funding's going to be for the remainder of 12 the year. 13 MS. HARRIS: I can do that. I can do that. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any further budget 15 amendments? Any late bills? 16 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 17 MS. PIEPER: You have a motion and a second 18 to declare an emergency to pay -- 19 JUDGE TINLEY: We haven't voted on that? 20 MS. MCELHANNON: No. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Motion and second to -- 22 has been made. Any further question or discussion on the 23 motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your 24 right hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 1-24-05 178 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. No 4 late bills. I have no transcripts or reports. Do we have 5 any reports from any of the Commissioners? 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: One. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We all got a 9 report -- I think all of you did, the Kerr County Emergency 10 Service District Number 2 annual report, as required by the 11 Texas Health and Safety Code. They have enumerated some of 12 their accomplishments, and they pointed out the audit done 13 for the period Fiscal Year 2004 by the Kerr County Auditor, 14 and received favorable results. They presented a budget 15 summary showing that they took in $18,025, turned $11,000 16 over to the Mountain Home Volunteer Fire Department, paid 17 about $1,700 in expenses, and have reserves of $5,325. I 18 think they did a terrific job of getting that running out 19 there. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other reports? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, Commissioner 23 Letz and I participated in -- all day last Tuesday in a -- 24 in a day-long -- almost a day-long workshop with regard to 25 the airport and the policies of that board regarding 1-24-05 179 1 development of land and operation and other matters that are 2 pertinent to that. And I can't speak for Commissioner Letz, 3 but I thought the day was productive and very good. We had 4 only one board member absent; everybody else was there. 5 Only one absent was the mayor, and he may have had some 6 conflicts. But I thought it was a day well spent. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Do you have 8 anything you want to add to that? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It was a good meeting, 10 and, you know, we got the City in line on the airport. Now 11 Buster and I are going to work on ETJ. Very excited. 12 Buster? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm excited. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And then, when you 15 get that one lined up, then we'll all together work on EMS. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any other reports? 17 MS. HARRIS: Go ahead. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You go ahead. 19 MS. HARRIS: Nah, 'cause I'm going to end it 20 on a good note. Go ahead. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: She knows you. What do you 22 want, and when do you want it? 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't. I need your 24 help from the Court. I need some guidance. As y'all saw in 25 our figures and daily population with the jail and 1-24-05 180 1 everything going up -- and Buster mentioned it even earlier 2 about expanding. I really would like for that to be a very 3 last alternative. I think there is another alternative to 4 taking care of the jail overcrowding, but I need this 5 Court's help in pushing District Judges to have more court 6 days in this county for criminal dockets. I think we could 7 cut our inmate population down drastically if we had more 8 than one court day a month, or more than four jury trials a 9 year. You know, they say they don't have the funds for 10 visiting judges or assistant D.A.'s or -- or whatever, but 11 we have two very good courtrooms that sit empty most of the 12 time, and then on their one court day a month, I will end up 13 bringing over anywhere from 40 to 50 felons at one time, and 14 maybe two of them will get heard, and all the rest of them 15 get reset for the next month, and it's just a vicious cycle. 16 And it is nothing any more to have inmates in jail over 300 17 days or over a year, just waiting for a court date. 18 And I -- in looking at it, trying to analyze 19 it, I visited with the judges some. Supposedly, we'll have 20 a meeting to help move that along. But the reality is, you 21 know, defense attorneys, the longer they let their client 22 sit out there, the more likelihood witnesses have moved 23 away, different things have happened, the better outcome for 24 the defense attorneys who are getting paid, court-appointed 25 by the County. And we need to find some way of speeding 1-24-05 181 1 these court cases up. I don't mean just letting inmates out 2 of jail. They shouldn't -- they ought to have their case 3 heard. They don't have the backlog getting them in T.D.C. 4 or anywhere else; they need to be getting the cases done. 5 We're spending, you know, 100, 200 days of feeding this 6 person, and then they turn them loose on probation. And the 7 expenses of the County in medical costs, you know, run an 8 average of about $6,000 a month, and prescription 9 medication. A dollar a meal for every meal, and y'all saw 10 those figures that I gave you, just day-to-day costs on 11 keeping that many inmates in there. That's dead time, and I 12 don't think we should have it. And I'm at the point where, 13 if we want to keep from having to enlarge that jail, we need 14 to be able to come to some kind of way of speeding up the 15 court system, getting these people moved through court. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there a -- and I don't 17 know the answer to this. Could the -- or how would an 18 additional judge be brought in? Do the District Judges just 19 bring in somebody? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, but under the current 22 system -- the new system, the County gets to pay for them. 23 Before, it came out of state funds. It now comes out of 24 County funds. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, I mean, it wouldn't 1-24-05 182 1 take -- you know, well, it appears right now that we're 2 losing -- it's costing us a whole bunch by not having a -- 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Probably cheaper to pay 4 one judge to dispose of a bunch of these cases. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Is that the 6 bottleneck? 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: This is the biggest 8 bottleneck, yes. And I think you'll see -- Judge Tinley may 9 be able to put more input on this -- that, sooner or later, 10 Kerr County's going to have to have its own district court 11 instead of sharing with all these other counties. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a legislative 13 issue. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If we had our own 15 district, that's a legislative issue that has to be done. 16 The problem you have if you try and do it now, one of our 17 two district judges would have to move or give up their 18 judgeship, because they both live in Kerr County, and one of 19 those courts would go away. But there's got to be a 20 solution to this that -- and I've seen it for years. But in 21 looking at it, that's our biggest bottleneck, is getting 22 these people through the court system. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Only time I can recall 24 paying a visiting judge was three or four years ago, we had 25 that knothead from College Station came down here and tried 1-24-05 183 1 to tell everybody what to do. We ended up picking up a 2 motel tab or something for him, but we were all glad to get 3 him out of town. But I don't -- we've never -- I mean, 4 Charlie Sherrill has served here for almost 30 years and 5 never charged a penny. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But part of that was 7 paid, as Judge Tinley said -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, yeah. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- by the State, and 10 then the last Legislature cut a lot of the judges' funding 11 to be able to pay special judges. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Like Jon was saying, 13 though, it may be cheaper for us to hire a district judge -- 14 pay a district judge than it would $3 million building you a 15 new jail. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's the point I'm at, 17 and I agree with you. And I think you -- it's a systemic 18 deal. Now, I talked to one of the D.A.'s about it, and I 19 kind of have to admire what he's been able to do, but he's 20 been in office 20 years, and he's added two personnel to his 21 office in 20 years. Well, you know, you look at just law 22 enforcement alone throughout the county. We've created 23 Ingram Marshal's Office in 20 years. Between the City, us, 24 D.P.S., narcs, the task force, we've added over 100 law 25 enforcement officers in this county alone in 20 years. And 1-24-05 184 1 your main felony prosecutor has only added two people to his 2 staff, and they're overloaded and things aren't getting all 3 the way through, and it's taking a lot longer. Last Grand 4 Jury alone, to -- last week was 30 felony cases presented to 5 the one Grand Jury. That's 30 new ones. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm not real sure 7 that if we asked the two judges, "Are you the problem? Do 8 you have too much case load? Can't get to it?" That they 9 would agree. They might say, "Well, yeah, I got too much 10 cases, but the prosecutors do these things, and this happens 11 and that happens." And -- 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And you're going to have 13 that. And, in fact, they're in other counties, too. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It may be a systemic 15 problem rather than just too many cases for each judge. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would be in favor of 17 looking, I mean, at criminal cases. On civil cases, I don't 18 mind if they have to wait, but -- 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Criminal cases have the 20 priority anyway. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But have a District Judge 22 for that. But the other part of it -- the equation is that 23 these court-appointed attorneys, every time there's a 24 continuance, we're paying them a bunch. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's right. 1-24-05 185 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, you just look at 2 our court-appointed attorneys each two weeks; it's 3 unbelievable how much we spend on these guys. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What we complain about 5 all the time is the court-appointed attorneys. Some of them 6 do real well, but the majority of them will never see their 7 client except on that court day when we bring him over here. 8 And if it gets passed, they don't come out to the jail to 9 see them; they don't take phone calls from them, and it's 10 not unusual -- and there's a large majority of those inmates 11 that would plead guilty today if they could get to court to 12 do it, and they can't do it. And we're feeding them, paying 13 medical. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Bottleneck on the 15 judges, bottleneck on the prosecuting side. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: It could be some of both. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think it is an equal 18 amount, some of both. One of the -- 'cause they share the 19 counties. You've got them in different counties, and they 20 only have one day here or four trial days here a year, and 21 it is a big bottleneck. There's just got to be a solution 22 to it. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: I know -- I know since the 24 system was changed, that the State no longer pays the 25 visiting judges, I know our judges have been reluctant to -- 1-24-05 186 1 to appoint visiting judges to sit because of that. If -- if 2 it were to be suggested to the judges that there's some 3 other considerations -- your considerations about keeping 4 them in jail and so forth, if the prosecutors could be made 5 available, and if the County were willing to pay for the 6 visiting judges, would they have any difficulty being a part 7 of that arrangement? 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, and this is the 9 part -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: That would be a good start. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It does backlog some -- 12 and I really admire what Rex has done. I got a letter from 13 him late last week saying, from now on, if they arrest -- 14 any law enforcement agency arrests a defendant, they have 15 15 days to get a case report to Rex's office for prosecution, 16 because that is another problem. You'll have a law 17 enforcement agency arrest somebody, especially drug charges, 18 put them in jail. That person can't make bond. They take 19 their time on getting the reports done. Then they send the 20 drugs off to the lab. It's two months after that before 21 they come, and by the time the guy even gets indicted, he's 22 been in jail three months, and we pay for it. There's got 23 to be a way of speeding up all this and working jointly with 24 the -- with all the law enforcement agencies, the 25 prosecutors, and everybody. And it's just causing a backlog 1-24-05 187 1 that, to me, is totally a waste of all of our funds on 2 having these guys sit in jail. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But even if -- back to 4 our District Judges. Even when either one or both are in -- 5 in Kerr County, does that process work real well? I mean, 6 do you haul all these guys over here, 25 or 30 bad people 7 over here to appear, and they appear before the Judge, and 8 they -- is that process -- 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: County Court does fair. 10 District Court is terrible, because they'll only hear one or 11 two motions out of 40 that we will bring over. So, the 12 other 38 go back over. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hiring another judge 14 may not help anything. 15 MR. EMERSON: If could I add to that, the 16 problem is you need more court days. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Need what? 18 MR. EMERSON: You need more court days. You 19 have -- you come over for arraignments and pretrials, and 20 just counting the number of cases that the 198th has -- the 21 216th alone, the docket may be eight pages long. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Easy. 23 MR. EMERSON: And by the time you arraign 24 everybody and then you get into your pretrials, where you're 25 supposed to have discussion of your contested motions, it 1-24-05 188 1 doesn't take very much contested motions to take up the 2 whole balance of the day, and then you just have to continue 3 them. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is it the same way in 5 these other counties? 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why us? 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Boerne and Gillespie, 9 according to Bruce, is getting pretty busy, okay? Kerr 10 County's always been a lot busier than the rest of the 11 counties. You look at 198th; you're talking real small 12 counties, Brady, Menard, all through that area. But our 13 docket is just so much larger. You can see that in what we 14 have in population of the county jail. It's just so much 15 larger. But I think the leaders, the elected officials -- 16 y'all, me, the judges -- we have got to sit down and come to 17 some solution. Because, you know, the longer an inmate sits 18 in jail, number one, the more medical, the more, you know, 19 meals, everything else, plus the more lawsuits get filed, 20 because they're just sitting there thinking up something to 21 do, and that's what they're going to do. And I don't think 22 -- you know, I've had one judge tell me, well, let's just 23 turn them loose on bond. Well, that's not the answer. 24 That's not what's going to protect the public. They need to 25 have their case heard and go on down the road. And it's a 1-24-05 189 1 very large waste of money. I have the largest budget out of 2 the County departments, and it's an extremely large waste of 3 money, in my opinion, on what we do in that jail. 4 MR. EMERSON: If I can add on to that, too, 5 to give you more insight into what happens in jail, as a 6 defense attorney, you get appointed to somebody, say, within 7 a couple days of the time they go to jail. If you go out 8 there and you talk to them, you're set for court a month 9 later. Between the time you talk to them and you get to 10 court, there are over 35 criminal "lawyers" that are all 11 locked up in the same jail cells with them that are experts. 12 They have changed their mind, and they do something 13 completely different, and instead of walking away 30 days 14 later, it's nine months later and a trial. And you're -- 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And you're only having 16 actually four to maybe six criminal jury trials a year. You 17 can't do it. Can't keep going, unless we all want to build 18 lots of jails. And I don't want a bigger jail, personally. 19 But -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, as you know, 21 none of us here -- most of us here are scared of the 22 District Judges. We don't talk back to them. And I'm not 23 sure how to handle it. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't know. I had one 25 tell my staff the other day to bring all 40 inmates over 1-24-05 190 1 here at one time when the holding cell up there, by Jail 2 Commission, is only entitled to hold 17. And I had to go up 3 and tell that Judge that will never happen again. The staff 4 did it before I knew about it, but I said it won't happen 5 again. I can't violate state jail standards just to have 6 them all over here at one time. 'Cause a lot of the 7 attorneys needed to be in another county, so then they're 8 going to run those through real quick, so they want them all 9 here at one time. And it -- you know, just to pass their 10 cases. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I personally want to 12 thank you, Rusty, for bringing us this problem today at 13 3:30. That's really neat. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You're more than 15 welcome. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Now for the good news. 17 MS. HARRIS: The good news. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Becky Harris. 19 MS. HARRIS: Real quick. It won't take long. 20 I attended the Juvenile Chiefs' probation conference in 21 Austin, their annual summit conference in Austin last week. 22 And on one note, Vicki Spriggs, the Executive Director of 23 the Texas Juvenile Probation Commission, made the opening 24 remarks on Wednesday morning. She announced that it's in a 25 shell bill before the Legislature -- and she explained what 1-24-05 191 1 that was; that if it's in a shell bill, that it's a done 2 deal whenever it comes up for vote in the appropriations 3 committee. That T.J.P.C. is going to get back their 4 5 percent that the legislation cut from their budget in the 5 last session. They're going to get that back, which that's 6 good news for probation departments, which is good news for 7 facilities, because that money will funnel down through us 8 for placement purposes. So that's a good thing. The next 9 good thing is that while we were there, we picked up new 10 contracts with Gray, Moore, Hood, Eastland, Hale, and the 11 county that Tulia is in. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Swisher. 13 MS. HARRIS: Swisher. And she also -- she 14 also takes care of another county, so we picked up six 15 brand-new counties on contract. And we have existing 16 contracts with Midland, Montgomery, Brown, and Lampasas as 17 we speak. We now have a -- Dawson County, which is 18 Lampasas. No, that's Lamesa, sorry. Lampasas is going to 19 be sending us kids. Brown and Midland. The Assistant Chief 20 from Midland approached me and she asked me -- she said, 21 "Are y'all okay? Are y'all staying open?" I said, "Yeah, 22 we're fine." She said, "Good. I've got some kids I need to 23 be sending you." I said, "Fine, bring them on." Bexar 24 County, I spoke with the Chief Juvenile Probation Officer 25 for Bexar County, had a really good conversation with him. 1-24-05 192 1 We talked about a lot of issues that he had previously. 2 Those issues were resolved. And he said, "Call me this week 3 and set up a meeting." Because, see, they discontinued the 4 contract with us, and we're going to get it back. We're 5 getting our contract back from Bexar County. We're going to 6 set up a meeting with him and two of his placement officers, 7 and so we will have Bexar County back on board and start 8 getting kids from there. So -- 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That is good news. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Exciting. 11 MS. HARRIS: So -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good. Thank you. 13 MS. HARRIS: -- just wanted to let you know. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You bet. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Super. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything else? 17 MS. HARDIN: May I ask the Court something, 18 please? This morning, y'all passed on an item to set public 19 hearing dates because we had no backup material. In the 20 past, we have not had backup material, but I have it now. 21 Would it be possible to go back and revisit that item and 22 set public hearing date? 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You got -- 24 MS. PIEPER: That was Item 1.5. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I've thrown away 1-24-05 193 1 1.5. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Backup information. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: 1.5. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All we're asking for 5 is where the thing is, and I think -- isn't that the one 6 where you're combining lots, Live Springs Ranch? You're 7 combining some lots? 8 MS. HARDIN: Yes. Live -- okay, there was a 9 meeting, and Mr. Odom and Mr. Nicholson were at it, but they 10 didn't remember that this morning. But -- still, but 11 it's -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Didn't remember. We 13 didn't -- sitting down here, I did not have enough 14 information, did not know where the thing was, didn't know 15 you're combining lots. He's been in a coma for a month and 16 a half. 17 MS. HARDIN: He and Len have the same 18 problem, the cedar -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I want the 20 information. I got to have the information to make the 21 decision. 22 MS. HARDIN: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Please. 24 MS. HARDIN: Henderson Branch. It's Live 25 Springs Ranch just before you get into the Lazy Hills Guest 1-24-05 194 1 Ranch. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: From now on, when we 3 get our document in here, tell us it's in Precinct 4. 4 And -- 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or 3, 2, or 1. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, 1, 2, 3, or 4. 7 Either one. 8 MS. HARDIN: Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And -- and a note of 10 some sort in there to remind me that we're combining lots. 11 I mean, we're sitting here -- 12 MS. HARDIN: Well, it was not -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- dumber than hell. 14 MS. HARDIN: It was to set a public hearing 15 for an alternate plat process, which means one trip to the 16 court. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Commissioner, would 18 you cut us some slack here and let us set a public hearing 19 if we promise to get backup before -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm just saying next 21 time -- 22 MS. HARDIN: I promise in the future I will 23 do that, and I will appear -- and I will appear in court if 24 there's a question on it. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, I'll second your 1-24-05 195 1 motion. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: To set a -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We'll go back to Item 4 Number 5, which was -- the last portion of it was passed on 5 this morning. Does any member of the Court have anything to 6 offer with respect to the request for public hearing on Live 7 Springs Ranch, Lot 4? 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I move to set a 9 public hearing on Live Springs Ranch, Lot Number 4, for 10 10:15 a.m. on February 28th, '05. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 10:15 or 10:10? 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: 10:10. 13 MS. HARDIN: And the Rio Vista -- Rio Retiro? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Already done. 15 MS. HARDIN: That one you did? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to 18 set a public hearing at 10:10 a.m. on February -- on 19 February 28th of '05 for Live Springs Ranch, Lot 4. Any 20 question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify 21 by raising your right hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. 1-24-05 196 1 MS. HARDIN: Thank you very much, gentlemen. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Do we have anything further 3 with respect to any of the remaining items on the 4 information agenda? Any other reports to be rendered? All 5 right. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Report? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Pardon? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm getting hand signals 9 from down there, but he's waving them off -- he's waved me 10 off. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you have anything further, 12 Commissioner Baldwin? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir, I do not. 14 Thank you. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Out of an abundance of 16 caution, we're going to stand in recess until 3:45 tomorrow 17 afternoon. We will reconvene then, and at that time, in all 18 probability, if we don't have anything resolved, we will 19 again recess and reconvene for Wednesday afternoon at 20 4 p.m., the meeting that's already posted. And then, of 21 course, we need to post our special meeting for Friday 22 morning -- at 9:00? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 9:00. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: 9 a.m. for the consideration 25 and review and appropriate action on applicants for the 1-24-05 197 1 Information Technology Specialist position. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, do you need a 3 quorum here for those -- that 3:45 meeting tomorrow? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: No. No. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's good. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll probably be in 8 the vicinity. So will Commissioner Baldwin, more than 9 likely. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: So, we will stand in recess 12 until 3:45 tomorrow afternoon. 13 (Commissioners Court recessed at 3:41 p.m.) 14 - - - - - - - - - - 15 (Commissioners Court reconvened on Tuesday, January 25, 2005, at 3:45 p.m. Judge Tinley 16 and Commissioner Williams were present.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me reconvene the regular 18 Commissioners Court meeting that was posted and scheduled 19 January 24, 2005. The meeting was recessed at approximately 20 this same time on the 24th until today at this hour, 21 3:45 p.m., in order to consider at least two matters that 22 were on that agenda, one of which was annotated on the 23 agenda to be heard tomorrow afternoon at 4 p.m., Wednesday, 24 January 26th of 2005. In addition, an unfinished item was 25 Number 23 on the agenda the 24th of January, which dealt 1-24-05 198 1 with the consideration and discussion of approval of consent 2 and release agreement with respect to the Kerr County 3 Juvenile Detention Facility, and outstanding bonds on the 4 same, and authorize the County Judge to sign the agreement. 5 For the record, let me note that present today are 6 Commissioner Williams, Precinct 2, and myself. Not present 7 are Commissioner Precinct 1, Buster Baldwin; Commissioner, 8 Precinct 3, Jonathan Letz; and Commissioner, Precinct 4, 9 Dave Nicholson. Having said that, all I can report today is 10 that there's still been no resolution of the consent and 11 release agreement. It's still being worked on by counsel, 12 and we're therefore unable to take any action on it today, 13 even if there were a quorum. And that, together with the 14 annotation on the agenda that the Item 24 matter authorizing 15 the issuance, sale, and delivery of Kerr County, Texas 16 Certificates of Obligation, Series 2005, and related matters 17 having been scheduled for Wednesday, January 26th, 2005, at 18 4 p.m., that in lack of a quorum, we're unable to conduct 19 business. Therefore, we will stand in recess until 4 p.m. 20 on January the 26th, 2005. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Recess? Or are we 22 adjourning? 'Cause that's reposted, Judge. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: We're actually in recess, 24 because it is a continuation of the -- the Monday regular 25 agenda. And even though we did post it, having prior 199 1 knowledge, we posted it just to give double -- double 2 assurance of notice to the public, but it'll actually be a 3 recess and reconvening of the Monday, January 24th meeting. 4 So, we'll stand in recess until 4 p.m. on the 26th day of 5 January, 2005. 6 (Commissioners Court recessed at 3:48 p.m.) 7 - - - - - - - - - - 8 9 10 11 STATE OF TEXAS | 12 COUNTY OF KERR | 13 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 14 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 15 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 16 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 17 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 31st day of January, 18 2005. 19 20 21 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 22 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 23 Certified Shorthand Reporter 24 25