1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Regular Session 10 Monday, March 14, 2005 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 DAVE NICHOLSON, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X March 14, 2005 2 PAGE --- Commissioners' Comments 4 3 1.1 Contract for attorney expenses in lieu of 4 full-time employee 6 1.2 Consider policy related to transfer of Kerr 5 County employees from one job position to another 9 1.4 Consider whether changing classifications of roads 6 in Big Sky Ranch Subdivision would require replat 23 1.3 Annual Report of the Kerr County Historical 7 Commission for 2003 and 2004 29 1.5 Consider Preliminary Plat for Audubon Place 40 8 1.8 Presentation of programs to be offered at the Kerr County Juvenile Detention Facility 42 9 1.6 Receive and Open Bids for Flat Rock Lake 67 1.7 Open Annual Bids for road base material, cold mix, 10 black base, trap rock aggregate, asphalt emulsion oil, corrugated metal pipe, & equipment by the hour 11 with operator 68 1.9 Consider adopting vehicle usage Log for the 12 Juvenile Detention Facility 76 1.10 Consider contracts between Kerr County Juvenile 13 Detention Facility and outside entities 79 1.11 Approve for signature contract for services with 14 Hill Country Council on Alcohol & Drug Abuse 85 1.12 Authorization to use vending machine proceeds to 15 support cost of field trips for residents with staff, resident clothing & hygiene products, and 16 other resident-related items 90 1.13 Consider hiring juvenile detention officer with 17 8 years experience at a grade/step of 12-4 rather than entrance level of 12-1 94 18 1.14 Consider approving Airport Code, which includes Rules & Regulations, Minimum Operating Standards 104 19 4.1 Pay Bills 121 20 4.2 Budget Amendments 123 4.3 Late Bills --- 21 4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 133 22 5.1 Reports from Commissioners/Liaison Committee Assignments 134 23 --- Adjourned 137 24 25 3 1 On Monday, March 14, 2005, at 9:00 a.m., a regular 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in the 3 Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville, 4 Texas, and the following proceedings were had in open court: 5 P R O C E E D I N G S 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me call to order the 7 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court scheduled for 8 this time and date, Monday, March the 14th, 2005, at 9 a.m. 9 Appears to be that time now. My good friend, Reverend Ted 10 Campbell, is here with us this morning. I've asked him to 11 be here to say a few words for us. 12 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thanks, Ted. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Reverend. 16 Appreciate you being here this morning. At this time, if 17 there's any member of the audience or the public that wishes 18 to be heard on a matter that is not listed on the agenda, 19 we'd ask that you come forward at this time. If you want to 20 be heard on a listed agenda item, we'd ask that you fill out 21 a participation form. It's not absolutely essential, but it 22 helps me to keep up with who wants to speak on what item so 23 that I won't miss you. But if there's anyone that wishes to 24 be heard on a -- on an item that's not listed on the agenda, 25 please come forward at this time. Seeing no one moving 3-14-05 4 1 towards the front, we'll move on. Commissioner Baldwin, 2 what do you have for us this morning? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Zero. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Williams? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just going to note 6 that -- Commissioner 4, it's only fitting, I guess, that the 7 first Big 12 title that our university won was a Title IX 8 women's team win. Congratulations to them. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: A lot of fun, too. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, sir. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. Commissioner 13 Letz? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have a few things this 15 morning. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On Saturday, I 18 participated with a needs assessment program put on by the 19 Comfort Area Foundation, which is part of the Hill Country 20 Foundation, and just kind of an overall needs assessment of 21 Comfort. One of the things that became apparent out of that 22 is the -- the rapid growth of Comfort into Kerr County, and 23 how that is going to have an ongoing -- more and more impact 24 on our government here. Rusty's very much aware of it, I 25 think, already, that the -- there's a number of, you know, 3-14-05 5 1 rodeo arenas and other things going on, and subdivisions in 2 Kerr County. Falling Water Subdivision is primarily in Kerr 3 County; The Reserve right next to it, which has a number of 4 very upper-end homes under construction in Kerr County, so 5 from a law enforcement standpoint, clearly, there's an 6 issue. EMS is an issue, infrastructure. There's probably 7 going to be a request -- I'm not sure how we're going to get 8 involved with it, really, but the Kendall County Water 9 District Number 1 is probably going to want to expand into 10 Kerr County, provide sewer and water service into Kerr 11 County, so I think that that's -- and they have, I believe, 12 the ability to do that. But there's just a lot going on in 13 that part of -- eastern part of the county. Which, you 14 know, we've always had a lot of residents in the eastern 15 part of the county, but all of a sudden, we're starting to 16 have more city-type residents, more urban issues. I think 17 that's going to become something we're going to have to work 18 with and -- you know, not necessarily this year, but 19 probably in the next five to ten years. A lot more of an 20 area where we have to spend money, bottom line. That's it. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Commissioner 22 Nicholson? 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Judge, over the past 24 few years, I occasionally have an opportunity to -- to see 25 our EMS in action, and that occurred again Sunday morning in 3-14-05 6 1 Hunt Methodist Church. There was a medical emergency; an 2 elderly woman had a stroke, and our First Responder was 3 there within just -- probably three or four minutes. The 4 Sheriff was there and the Kerrville EMS was there very 5 quickly. It's really good to see that -- that we can get -- 6 get that kind of service out there in the hinterlands pretty 7 quickly. That's all I've got. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. The -- I don't 9 know if any of you have been out by the Youth Exhibit 10 Center, commonly known as the Ag Barn. The new roof is 11 complete, I'm told. The new heat and A/C system for the 12 exhibit center is in place. The facade has been modified to 13 take into account that transition, and it really, really 14 looks nice. I urge you to go out and take a look. It 15 really looks good. Those are -- those are your tax dollars 16 that were spent out there, and I think a good job was done. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And we'll get a good test 18 probably tomorrow when the rains come. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or all this week. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's move into the 21 agenda. First item on the agenda is contract for attorney 22 expenses in lieu of full-time employee, and the County 23 Attorney asked that this item be placed on the agenda. 24 MR. EMERSON: Morning, gentlemen. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Morning. 3-14-05 7 1 MR. EMERSON: The presentation that I have 2 this morning is pursuant to the report that I submitted for 3 the monthly basis and what was presented to this Court 4 before as far as laying off an Assistant County Attorney. 5 What I would like is authorization from the Court to pursue 6 a contract for a part-time, by-the-hour attorney to cover -- 7 basically cover the state mental health docket, and that's 8 all that I would envision at this time. From talking to 9 John Rowlett out there, even if the facility gears back up 10 to full bed capacity, I do not anticipate more than $1,500 a 11 month maximum, and I would like authorization from this 12 Court to pursue a limited contract on an hourly basis with a 13 local attorney to cover that. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 17 approval for the County Attorney to pursue a contract on an 18 hourly basis for an attorney to handle the mental health 19 docket. Is that a correct statement of what you're asking 20 for? 21 MR. EMERSON: Yes, Your Honor. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any question or 23 discussion on that? 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm, of course, in 25 favor of doing this. It's a good plan, but I'm not sure 3-14-05 8 1 that the attorney requires our approval if he's got budgeted 2 funds. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He doesn't have budgeted 4 funds. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Oh, he'd have to 6 move them from full-time to -- okay. 7 MR. EMERSON: If I may comment, there's 8 actually a budget amendment that's been submitted -- that I 9 believe the Auditor submitted to shift funds from the salary 10 line to contract. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: It's part of our budget 12 amendments in our -- in our agenda today. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Only -- 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Only comment I have, I 16 mean, I don't -- the way the motion's worded, it's limited 17 to mental health. I would really -- you know, I'd just as 18 soon let it be "as needed." I mean, I can see some real 19 estate transaction come up that maybe he just needs to hire 20 on outside counsel. Rather than have to come to the court 21 every time if -- if something does come up, you know, give 22 the discretion to the County Attorney up to a dollar amount, 23 would be my preference. But -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that acceptable to 25 you? I'll amend the motion. 3-14-05 9 1 MR. EMERSON: Yes, sir. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: As needed, as opposed 3 to limiting it to mental health. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Second? Is that acceptable, 5 Commissioner Baldwin? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any further question or 8 discussion? All in favor of that motion, signify by raising 9 your right hand. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Thank 14 you. 15 MR. EMERSON: Thank you. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: The next item on the agenda is 17 to consider and discuss policy related to transfer of Kerr 18 County employees from one job position to another. 19 Commissioner Letz? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I put this on the agenda 21 after our discussion last week, and not having a complete 22 meeting of the minds between all elected officials as to 23 what our policy is or should be, I think we kind of set 24 it -- what it is at our last meeting, and I put I back on 25 the agenda, and I believe the Treasurer has looked at it and 3-14-05 10 1 kind of has some input as well. 2 MS. NEMEC: If you'll take one and pass it, 3 please? Thank you. I had talked to Kathy last week and 4 told her I would have a couple of options for you all to 5 look at, and so that you would all be able to choose from. 6 But after looking at everything and considering everything, 7 I kind of just felt that this one that I'm offering is the 8 fairest way to do it. So, this is what I'm recommending. 9 If you'll look at the second page, under Pay Scale, Section 10 C, what I am proposing -- and if anyone wants copies, I've 11 got an extra one here -- is to keep C, "When an employee 12 leaves a position, no new hire may be employed at a higher 13 classification than Step 1 of the group to which the 14 position belongs without prior approval of Commissioners 15 Court." Now, then it goes on to say -- and I'm proposing 16 that we delete this language and add the language that I 17 have on the front page. "Transfers, even if within the same 18 department, are new hires for purposes of this requirement. 19 The fact that there may be surplus funds in that salary line 20 item is not authorization to hire at a higher step than 21 authorized by this paragraph." I am proposing that we 22 delete that and insert -- the first sentence is the same 23 that we have on C, and the second sentence starts with, "An 24 employee..." 25 Are y'all there? Can y'all find that? "An 3-14-05 11 1 employee who transfers to another position within the county 2 shall keep all longevity increases earned. An employee who 3 transfers to another position within the county shall not be 4 allowed to transfer any prior merit increases they may have 5 earned in their current position." And that, to me, is 6 because when they earn a merit increase, they earn it for 7 that position that they're in. When you earn longevity, 8 you've earned it because you've been with the County so many 9 years and so on, and we have that in a policy already stated 10 as to how they earn that. However, when you transfer to 11 another position, I don't feel that you should transfer your 12 merits that you have earned in a current position into that 13 new position. So, what that would mean is that anyone that 14 wanted to transfer, then, would just have to go back and see 15 what -- how many positions -- or steps they've earned in 16 merit and how many were longevity, and they would just be 17 allowed to keep their longevity steps, not their merit. And 18 that's just open for discussion; see whatever y'all think 19 about it. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So that would mean 21 that an employee who may accept another position in another 22 department who may have earned merit increases over the term 23 of his or her employment for a period of time, if they were 24 to accept the new position, they, in effect, would be taking 25 a cut in pay. 3-14-05 12 1 MS. NEMEC: Now, if -- if it would mean a cut 2 in pay, then -- then no, I wouldn't think that that would -- 3 usually when they accept another position, they go from a 15 4 to a 19, so they wouldn't -- they're already going to be 5 higher than that. Now, in cases -- 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well -- 7 MS. NEMEC: -- where that would happen, then 8 we'd have to -- we'd have to look at that. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Looking at your 10 language, there are two elements involved in the transfer. 11 An employee -- assuming -- assuming that the person is 12 qualified. 13 MS. NEMEC: Mm-hmm. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The longevity that 15 that person had earned up to the point of the transfer and 16 any merits that person may have earned for meritorious 17 service to Kerr County, you're saying that the employee can 18 keep the longevity, but loses the merit. 19 MS. NEMEC: Well, I mean -- 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That means the 21 employee may take a cut in pay. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- but what the 23 Treasurer's policy would say is, in this situation, come 24 back to the Court to make a decision. I mean, that's -- I 25 mean, I personally, you know, agree with the policy as 3-14-05 13 1 presented. I think it is a fair -- it's -- I mean, I think 2 most people, when they take a transfer, are going to a 3 higher level. You know, it's a promotion to them or they're 4 doing something different; it's a choice they're making. 5 And, you know, it's like, why would a merit increase -- I 6 don't see why a merit increase would necessarily go with 7 that. You know, it doesn't make sense to me. I don't see 8 the logic behind it. Longevity makes real good sense to me, 9 because they're -- I mean, they're not starting over in the 10 county. They're still County employees. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The merit -- the merit 12 is related to the prior position. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not to the new 15 position. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. And the longevity 17 is any -- doesn't matter where you are in the county. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You could argue that 19 the merit -- the merit is related to the employee's 20 performance. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And to the old 22 position. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. In whatever 24 position, yeah. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think the -- 3-14-05 14 1 MS. NEMEC: If an employee -- for instance, 2 if it was my employee, and I had given my employee two step 3 merit increases for a job well done in -- in her position, 4 and then she transfers to another position, if -- if that 5 employee is not losing any money -- and, again that's -- 6 that's when they have to make the decision, do they want to 7 transfer or not? If that employee is not losing any money, 8 then she's earned merit in doing the duties of the County 9 Treasurer's payroll position, not a merit in the District 10 Clerk's Office, for example. It would be up to the District 11 Clerk if -- she would keep her longevity, but it would be up 12 to the District Clerk to give her the merits that she earns 13 in that position. And, you know, this is just something 14 that I came up with. I mean, you know, I think once we all 15 start discussing it, we can come up with something better if 16 -- if need be, but this is just where I thought we'd start. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Barbara, how -- on the 18 longevity side, we've had the policy that we have in place 19 that you get the longevity increases in three years? 20 MS. NEMEC: Mm-hmm. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Three years. 22 MS. NEMEC: For your first year, and then 23 every three years after that. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, I mean, how many -- 25 when we went -- when we started that policy, we went back 3-14-05 15 1 and people that had been here -- did we -- I can't remember. 2 MS. NEMEC: What we did -- what we did there 3 was, when we started the policy, any employee who had been 4 given an adjustment in their pay, that's when we started 5 that employee. Anyone who had been moved up or been 6 reclassified did not get the longevity, because they had 7 already -- we felt at that time that they had already been 8 put where they should be. The people that got longevity 9 were the ones that their pay was not changed at all -- was 10 not affected at all at that time, so they got the one-year. 11 And then after that is when it started, every first year 12 from that time, and I'd have to look up the date on that. 13 And then we went every three years and every one year, and 14 it's just been on like that. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But -- so there are no 16 employees that have more than a two-grade longevity increase 17 at this point? 18 MS. NEMEC: No. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Because we've only been 20 -- maybe three years at the most with the policy. 21 MS. NEMEC: Right. You know, coming up this 22 next budget year, I think employees are getting their 23 seven-year. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. But, you know, it 25 will -- this policy will work more for the future, really. 3-14-05 16 1 Just a note. I don't -- I mean, if we adopt this, we have 2 to undo what we did last meeting. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm glad you asked 4 that question. I'm getting ready to ask, how does that 5 apply to what we've done in the past? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it needs to be, I 7 think, retroactive to this year. I think you have to treat 8 the year the same. You can't -- you know, 'cause I know we 9 treated one of Paula Rector's employees one way, and we 10 treated one of Judge Ragsdale's employees a different way 11 last week -- at our last meeting, and I don't think that's 12 fair to do -- you know, do that. I think we need to be 13 consistent and just go back to the first of the year and 14 adjust them. I think the only one that is going to be a 15 possibly downward adjustment is the one we did with Judge 16 Ragsdale's employee at our last meeting, 'cause I believe we 17 left that person at a Grade 4, I believe. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm not going to 19 feel very good about -- 20 MS. NEMEC: That's going to -- 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- approving a 22 certain salary level for that job and then going back two 23 weeks later and say, "Deal's off." 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think it's fair 25 for us, though, to set a policy that we have Ms. Rector's 3-14-05 17 1 employee and didn't do it, and gave -- I mean, for the same 2 exact argument, and gave an increase that we're not giving 3 one of those employees. So I think you have -- it has to be 4 consistent. And, you know, that's what, you know, was 5 brought up at our last meeting when we made that decision. 6 MS. NEMEC: There have been several 7 employees, I believe, since January -- and maybe from 8 December, from this budget year -- that have been 9 transferred and have kept their longevity and their merit. 10 I only know of one, which was in Ms. Rector's office, that 11 was not given that. And I think if we just know that we 12 have a policy -- we have a policy moving forward. But to be 13 consistent with what we've started doing in October through 14 today -- or through the last court date, it would be fair to 15 move Ms. Rector's employee up that one step that wasn't 16 given to her, and then start fresh from here on. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That makes more sense 18 than trying to bring somebody down. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't have a problem 20 with that, as long as we're consistent. 21 MS. NEMEC: And, you know, we can try this, 22 and when -- when a situation comes up, we'll see where the 23 numbers fall and how it works with what Commissioner 24 Williams is saying. And I understand what he's saying. We 25 just have to work with it and see how it -- how it works. 3-14-05 18 1 And maybe this is a -- a test, and we can kind of work with 2 this till September, and might have to adjust it for the 3 next budget year, I don't know. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It may never be 5 applicable, but it could. 6 MS. NEMEC: Right. Exactly. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably will be. 8 MS. NEMEC: Yeah. Because, like, in these 9 cases, they've jumped from, like, 15's to 19's, and they're 10 not losing any money, but if someone jumps from a 12 to a 15 11 and they're at a 12-8 and they come back at a 15, and we 12 have to look and take all their merits that they've earned, 13 you know, that might -- that might happen, what you're 14 talking about. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 16 MS. NEMEC: I can see that happening. And 17 maybe I should add on here, as long as they don't lose -- as 18 long as there's not a reduction in their pay. This policy 19 applies as long as there's not a reduction in their pay. 20 Should a reduction in pay occur, then we'd have to bring it 21 to Commissioners Court for discussion at that time. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that's already 23 pretty much in the language; if the elected official or 24 department head wants to bring it to court, it's brought to 25 the Court. I'll make a motion that we adopt the new 3-14-05 19 1 personnel policy as presented, and all employees that have 2 had increases up to this date, this budget year, will 3 receive both a merit and longevity grade increase. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And that last 5 statement, you're just dealing with one employee? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think just one, but if 7 there's another one somewhere -- I don't know what we did 8 with Ms. Uecker. I know she had some transfers, and I can't 9 remember what we did exactly with those. Didn't you have 10 one, Linda? 11 MS. UECKER: One of mine went to the County 12 Attorney's office -- I mean to County Court at Law. 13 MS. NEMEC: I believe when I submitted for my 14 employee, I did not give her her merit increases that she 15 had; I brought her in at a lower step. So, if we're going 16 to go back, then I'd need to adjust hers also one step. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: When was that? 18 MS. NEMEC: Couple of months ago. In 19 January, 'cause I hired her January 1. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, there's two. 21 Second. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Any 23 further question or discussion? Ms. Uecker, did you have a 24 comment you wish to make? 25 MS. UECKER: Well, I'm just trying to 3-14-05 20 1 understand this. And based on what Commissioner Williams 2 said, a lot of -- a merit is based on performance, so -- and 3 because of performance, like in my employee's case, you 4 know, she was offered a position in another -- in another 5 spot. And, you know, when Judge Brown came in here and 6 said, okay, because of this person's performance, I want to 7 hire her at a -- whatever the step is -- 19, not as a 19-1, 8 but as a 19-3 and -4. And what I fear is that we're going 9 to still continue to make exceptions, which is not fair to 10 the rule. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Perform -- 12 MS. UECKER: In other words -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Performance rule. 14 MS. UECKER: Right. Because if you are going 15 to say, okay, if it -- if it reduces a salary, we're not 16 going to do it, well, that's not fair either. Now, I don't 17 want to see anybody's salary reduced, but if you're going to 18 set a rule, then it's a rule, regardless if the salary goes 19 up or down. 'Cause if you do that, then it's not fair to 20 that person who happened to go into a higher position, but 21 didn't get the same increase because the salary didn't go 22 down. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree with what Linda's 24 saying. I -- and I like the way it is, and I think that, 25 you know, I'd have to look at the situation whether I'd go 3-14-05 21 1 along with the -- giving the merit increase, 'cause there 2 could be a reason. I mean, the employee may just not like 3 working for Linda and may want to go work for somebody else 4 and be willing to take a pay cut to go do that. 5 MS. UECKER: Yeah, but based on this, if she 6 doesn't -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I know all your employees 8 love working for you. 9 MS. UECKER: Like -- well, whoever. It 10 doesn't matter. I mean, if one of my employees doesn't like 11 working for me and decides to go, you know, over here and 12 work for Rusty -- or, no, he's making more -- Paula. Work 13 for Paula. Then -- but because of that, she may -- she or 14 he may get a decrease, it's not fair because they made that 15 choice. 16 MS. NEMEC: So they should just lose their 17 merit completely? 18 MS. UECKER: They made the choice. 19 MS. NEMEC: That's true. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- 21 MS. NEMEC: That's where I was coming from on 22 this. It's up to them. They'll see what -- the new 23 position that they're applying for, they'll see by the -- by 24 this policy where it's going to put them, and it's their 25 choice. 3-14-05 22 1 MS. UECKER: But you said up there -- you 2 said up there we should not -- you know, we should come back 3 to the Court, and we shouldn't -- no employee should give up 4 any money. 5 MS. NEMEC: Well, based on what Commissioner 6 Williams' concern was. But -- but, really, what you're 7 saying is correct. They -- they know where they're at. 8 They know that the policy states that they keep their 9 longevity increases, so they see what the new position is 10 and what it pays, and if they're going to lose money, then 11 that's their choice to take it or not take it. 12 MS. UECKER: As long as we don't come in here 13 next month again and make an exception for Road and Bridge 14 or the Sheriff's Department. 15 MR. ODOM: Leave Road and Bridge out of this. 16 (Laughter.) 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Leonard's sitting over 18 there quiet. 19 MR. ODOM: I haven't said a thing. 20 MS. NEMEC: And I agree with Linda. You 21 know, this is -- if this is the policy, this is the policy. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think this policy is 23 fairer than it was before, and I think it's -- I like it. 24 That's my motion. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion and second. Any 3-14-05 23 1 further question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, 2 signify by raising your right hand. 3 (Commissioners Baldwin, Letz, and Nicholson voted in favor of the motion.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed? 5 (Commissioner Williams voted against the 6 motion.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Next item 8 on the agenda, we'll go to Item 4, consider whether changing 9 the classification of roads in Big Sky Ranch Subdivision in 10 Volume 7, Page 281 and 282, would require a replat, located 11 in Precinct 4. 12 MR. ODOM: Good morning. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, sir. 14 MR. ODOM: Good morning, Judge. What we 15 have, recently Big Sky Ranch Subdivision final plat was 16 recently approved for the roads to be county-maintained 17 after one year, and that is in Precinct 4 that we're talking 18 about off what they call Lower Reservation; used to be 19 Tatsch Road there. However, the developers have now -- are 20 now interested in making it a gated community, and want to 21 know if they will have to replat, or if they can just make 22 the appropriate notations on the final plat showing the 23 roads will be privately maintained. We'd certainly 24 encourage them to be privately maintained if they wish to do 25 that, but I felt like we needed to go to court. We've -- we 3-14-05 24 1 already have a final plat. What would be that direction? 2 Because I need to give that to them. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No road locations 4 changing? 5 MR. ODOM: Nothing's changed. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just the verbiage? 7 MR. ODOM: Just the verbiage is to be 8 privately maintained. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Have we -- we have 10 approved the final plat? 11 MR. ODOM: We have approved the final plat to 12 be county accepted for maintenance. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do we -- are we 15 required to do another public hearing? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think you almost have 17 to abandon the road. We've accepted them once, and they're 18 currently county roads. I think we'd have to do a public -- 19 abandon them, not do any other road. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I asked the County 21 Clerk's opinion on it, and it was her opinion that we just 22 need a court authorization to change the plat to reflect 23 that they're privately maintained roads. It's not the final 24 say on it, but that's the one opinion I did get. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I see the County Attorney 3-14-05 25 1 making some notes there. That might be an appropriate 2 source for an answer. 3 MR. ODOM: Now, the only thing, if you don't 4 put -- if it's missed when they go into it, someone could 5 buy it under the auspice that the original plat says it's 6 maintained. And I don't know; I don't have the answer right 7 now. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Plats are real bad places 9 to keep notes about roads. I think we need a public 10 hearing. And I don't think it's that big of a deal, I mean, 11 for the developer -- I mean, we can do it when we do our 12 quarterly, you know, public hearing. I don't think we need 13 to run a special one on this one, unless they wanted us to. 14 MR. ODOM: We'll be coming up to this. I 15 guess we could put it in for abandonment and then set a 16 public hearing, but would they go through the preliminary 17 plat again? Or just bring it back after public hearing for 18 a final plat? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The plat stays the way it 20 is, and we just have a court order to abandon the road for 21 county maintenance. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay, I'm going to 23 move that we set a public hearing for 10 a.m. on April 25th 24 to consider approving the change in classification of the 25 roads in Big Sky Ranch Subdivision from county maintained to 3-14-05 26 1 privately maintained. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to 4 set a public hearing. Any question or discussion? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I do have a question. 6 Leonard, when's your -- when was the quarterly public 7 hearing going to be held? 8 MR. ODOM: We're going to come to you with 9 that list this month, and then set that date probably for 10 April sometime, so the April 25th sounds like that might -- 11 I think our next meeting is -- 12 JUDGE TINLEY: 28th. 13 MR. ODOM: -- the 28th of this month, so it 14 will be 30 days from that time. So -- I don't know if that 15 25th -- I don't know how that falls. Is that -- would that 16 be acceptable if it's -- 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: 25th is more than 30 18 days from now. 19 MR. ODOM: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, my question is, is 21 the developer in a real hurry for this? And if not, if we 22 could wait and do it the first -- 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The developer's 24 here. 25 MS. KRAUSE: Yeah, we're here. 3-14-05 27 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It saves the County a 2 little bit of money if we don't have to do a separate public 3 hearing, if we can roll it into the standard quarterly 4 public hearing. 5 MR. ODOM: And we are -- that's where we'll 6 be coming with road changes, name signs, stuff like that. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that would be -- 8 that's acceptable? So it will be, like, the first meeting, 9 then, of May. 10 MS. KRAUSE: That's fine. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's fine? Save a 12 couple hundred dollars. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think you can -- 14 you can probably be assured, from what you're hearing here, 15 that it will be approved, but -- but it won't be formally 16 done until May. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And just a question. 18 Have any of the lots been sold? 19 MS. KRAUSE: No. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. If -- and the 21 reason is, if lots are sold, they need to get a written 22 notification of public hearing. But if there's none sold -- 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So we really don't 24 need a motion on this? We're just going to -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we need the 3-14-05 28 1 motion to include it with the standard -- 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'll change that 3 motion to include it with the quarterly hearing. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That will be on 5 May 9th? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the second Monday in 8 May. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, second Monday? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The first Monday. 11 MR. ODOM: First Monday in May. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: May 9th? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The first meeting in 14 May -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- is May 9th. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. That's the second 18 Monday. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's what we said. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So I change the 22 motion to hold a public hearing on May 9th at 10 a.m. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Who offered the second? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I seconded it, and I 25 offer that modification -- or accept that modification. 3-14-05 29 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any further question or 2 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 3 your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We 8 have a timed item at this time, at 9:30, being Item 3 on the 9 agenda, and that is an annual report of Kerr County 10 Historical Commission for the years '03 and '04. General 11 Walter Schellhase. Good morning, sir. 12 MR. SCHELLHASE: Morning, Judge, 13 Commissioners. I come to you this morning to present an 14 annual report for 2003 and 2004. And as I took over the 15 chairmanship this year, I found that these reports had not 16 been filed by the previous chairman, so therefore I 17 incorporated these two reports together, and I can assure 18 you that in December of this year, per our bylaws, I will 19 have the report for 2005 for you. So, this is an update for 20 the two-year period of time, along with the membership, the 21 leadership, and the activities. Our membership at this time 22 is 21, as presented in the report. And the officers for 23 this year are myself, chairman. First vice president was 24 not selected -- I mean first vice president, Haskell Fine. 25 Second vice president was not selected. Ray Haney is the 3-14-05 30 1 Treasurer, and Lew Williams is the secretary. In the 2 report, we've included the budget for the last two years as 3 presented by the Court and spent by the Commission, and the 4 proposed budget for 2005 is included. 5 Major activities during this period of time 6 are covered in the report. I'll just hit the highlights. 7 The markers, of course, remains a main activity for the 8 Commission. We now stand with 60 in the county. To support 9 that program, we publish a brochure annually or as needed. 10 The brochures, usually we print 5,000 a year. We present it 11 to the Visitor's Bureau and other places in town so that 12 people throughout the county and visitors will know where 13 all these markers are. As you can see from the report, we 14 have quite a few markers in the process. The process has 15 been taking somewhere in the neighborhood of two years to 16 get a marker, from the time that someone submits the 17 application to the Commission, we process the application, 18 get the items printed, get the approval from the State, get 19 the money from the person that's buying the marker -- 20 because they are rather expensive now; they cost about 21 $1,500 -- and then by the time the State awards that 22 program, we're in about a two-year period of time. 23 One of the main activities during the past 24 year, of course, has been the Union Church building. We 25 have spent some money on that building to do the things that 3-14-05 31 1 have not been included in the original contract, such as a 2 sound system has been installed. We had a problem on the 3 north side of the building with water on the main door. We 4 built a canopy over the side for the handicapped ramp. 5 Those funds that we did not have were raised by the Friends, 6 so that's been finished. We still have a little bit to do 7 on the sound system, but we'll be finished shortly. 8 Collection -- collector's plates were done for the Union 9 Church building, and those have been selling rather slow. 10 We still have about 60 of them to sell, but that was a 11 fundraising project, and that'll be ongoing. 12 Two main projects that were worked on the 13 past two years and will continue into 2005 are the GPS 14 locations for the markers and for the county cemeteries. 15 That was a state program that was initiated several years 16 back. We're now in the process of finishing that up, and we 17 will finish that in 2005. The majority of that work has 18 been done by John and Rosa Lavender in their spare time. 19 They've been seeking out all of these markers and cemeteries 20 and giving us the GPS location. Several years back, we did 21 prepare a map of all the cemeteries within the county, so 22 those locations will be put on that map and then submitted 23 to the State to meet our part of that requirement. The 24 calendar project has been one that's been ongoing for 25 several years. It was a fundraising project initially. We 3-14-05 32 1 found that the calendars have become more and more difficult 2 to sell, so in 2005 there will not be a historical calendar. 3 The competition has been too severe. The newspaper gives 4 them away; the bank gives them away, so it's been rather 5 difficult to carry that program on. 6 Oral history. Big part of the Commission's 7 work. Very, very time-consuming, and not enough people to 8 do it, and not enough money to hire people. But this 9 program is one that the -- the Commissioners ought to have 10 great interest in. During the past two years during the 11 period of this process -- report, we've lost somewhere in 12 the neighborhood of 30 people that were on our list that we 13 hoped to get interviews from, oral history, and record that 14 document. Which they have passed on, so that history's been 15 lost. That program includes the fact that we do an 16 interview with the individual, video and audio. We then 17 have to transcribe that onto a written document, and this is 18 all by state procedures. We then present that back to the 19 individual to proof it and make sure that we have prepared 20 what they said -- they thought they said. We also collect 21 all the photographs that they may have in their collection. 22 We take those photographs and transform them into C.D.'s. 23 The audio is then also put on the C.D., and those C.D.'s and 24 the written documents are put in a ring binder, of which we 25 now have 37 totally complete. We have 10 in the process of 3-14-05 33 1 being done. I think by the time we finish what we now have 2 on the books, interviews done, we'll have about 50 in our 3 collection. 4 The question is, what do we do with all 5 these? And that was addressed two years ago when I made the 6 presentation to you people -- or the Commissioners at that 7 time, that how do -- how do we deal with these now that we 8 have them? We now have them in the building in the back of 9 the history library, the little two-story building which the 10 City -- or the Library Board has allowed us to use. That 11 building is not air-conditioned or heated. It had a severe 12 water damage about a year ago. All the sheetrock has been 13 removed off of those walls that were damaged downstairs, and 14 therefore we do not have the room to do the interviews -- 15 interviews that we were doing and record video tapes. We 16 have a proposal that we would like the Commissioners to 17 consider. It's the use of the second floor of the history 18 building itself. This has not been finished; however, it is 19 air-conditioned and heated, so it would be a -- a good place 20 for us to display these documents, make them available to 21 the public. In addition to that, as y'all know, we still 22 occupy the building in the basement of the courthouse. That 23 building is grossly inadequate. It's more kind of like a 24 morgue, so we say, which we do have all these documents and 25 artifacts buried. It would be an opportunity to move those 3-14-05 34 1 out of that building here in the courthouse and put them in 2 a spot where they could be used and displayed. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Walter? Walter, what 4 -- what were you saying about -- the second floor of what? 5 I missed that. 6 MR. SCHELLHASE: The history center. The 7 Kerr History Center, which is the building next door to the 8 library. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, okay. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The City bought -- or 11 City got it -- 12 JUDGE TINLEY: H.E.B. -- H.E. Butt. 13 MR. SCHELLHASE: The renovation on that did 14 not include anything on the second floor, so it's unfinished 15 on the second floor. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Didn't they put an 17 elevator in that building? 18 MR. SCHELLHASE: Yes. Yeah, we can get 19 there. You just can't -- it's just not finished. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Once you get there, 21 there's nothing there. 22 MR. SCHELLHASE: It's not being used at this 23 time. Maybe some storage. But, anyway, that's one of the 24 things we're looking at during 2005. We will be carrying on 25 some conversations with the library staff. When we have a 3-14-05 35 1 proposal we think is appropriate, we'll bring it back to the 2 Court and to the City to see if that's something that can be 3 worked out. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Walter, on that, I mean, 5 it seems that there are probably some grant funds to help 6 finish that out for that use. 7 MR. SCHELLHASE: It would appear right now 8 that no one is pursuing those, and so that's one of the 9 reasons. Also, back in the original dedication of that 10 building from the Butt Foundation, there was some discussion 11 of tearing the building down in the back that we're in now, 12 and that gives us some trepidation as to what's going to 13 happen. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, I mean, it seems -- 15 I mean, it seems like your idea is the logical way to do it. 16 It would be an accessible way to get some of this -- all the 17 work that's been done, these interviews and things, to a 18 place where people can look at them or go through them as 19 they need. So, I mean, I would totally support that 20 concept. I -- and I also support getting grant money to do 21 it. 22 MR. SCHELLHASE: Well, we are probably -- the 23 first place we'd go to is to Friends to -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 25 MR. SCHELLHASE: -- start some sort of a 3-14-05 36 1 campaign, and I think also do the -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I'm thinking that -- 3 you know, I don't know how it works; if -- getting access to 4 that space, if the County needs to be involved in an 5 interlocal agreement with the City or what, but anything we 6 need to do, I mean, let me know. I'll be glad to help work 7 on that. 8 MR. SCHELLHASE: Someone -- one of the 9 Commissioners is on the Library Board. Buster? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, I'm not on the 11 Library Board. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Library Board, here. 13 MR. SCHELLHASE: Everybody keeps pointing 14 their fingers in every direction. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I was absent that 16 day. 17 MR. SCHELLHASE: We want to bring it to the 18 Library Board. That will be a topic of discussion. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, typically they 20 do claim not to have a lot of -- of discussion about that. 21 About the only discussion I ever heard maybe exchanged has 22 to do with the genealogy, which I believe occupies -- 23 MR. SCHELLHASE: Genealogy is on the first 24 floor. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: On the first floor. 3-14-05 37 1 But I never hear anything about the building, outside of the 2 few reports that the Library Director made saying that the 3 building in the back had been damaged by rain. They never 4 talk much about the building in terms of the library and 5 its -- and its charter. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think part of the 7 reason for that, likely, is that the library is 50/50, and 8 that building's 100 percent City. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: True. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, anyway -- 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's true in terms 12 of expenses, yeah. 13 MR. SCHELLHASE: That will be one of our 14 projects for 2005. We'll keep the Court posted on that. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 16 MR. SCHELLHASE: In addition, the oral 17 history, as of right now, we're preparing three documents of 18 all of this information. And the reason for three, 19 supposedly there will be one in the library someplace for 20 regular checkout process. We want to maintain one in the 21 history center that -- that will be there for research 22 purposes. And, of course, the Historical Commission itself 23 is keeping a copy so that we can kind of have some insurance 24 that we will have something in the future. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Walter, one more before 3-14-05 38 1 you leave. That oral history, at some point, can you give 2 us a list of those -- of the 47 -- the 37 that are complete 3 and the 10 other ones? Just an idea as to -- 4 MR. SCHELLHASE: Yes, sure can. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. 6 MR. SCHELLHASE: The need to convert all of 7 the ones that we have is -- is a -- as I told you, a 8 time-consuming job. To do the interviews for the rest of 9 the people that are on our list, which I think is 92, of 10 people that are in their high 80's or 90's that need to be 11 done, we're going to try to draft up a proposal of some sort 12 that we can address to you -- to the Court as to how this 13 needs to be done. I do not believe that it -- that the 14 Commission -- the Historical Commission has the capability 15 to get these done before these people continue to pass away, 16 so that's going to be a -- a major issue of the 2005 17 program, is how we address that. The cabinets out here in 18 the courthouse, remember, belong to the courthouse. They 19 were given by the Historical Commission over a 10-year 20 process that it took us to get that done, and the Historical 21 Commission has been putting historical stuff in there, but 22 they are for other Commissioners' purpose use also, if they 23 choose to do that. 24 The final request from the Commission is that 25 you approve the membership and the officers, leadership for 3-14-05 39 1 the following year, which is the duty of the Court. And we 2 also ask, in the process of doing that, that you consider 3 anyone in your precinct you'd like to see serving on the 4 Historical Commission, 'cause we always have trouble with 5 active membership. Final thing I'd like to cover is our web 6 site. We developed a web site during 2004, which was done 7 by volunteers and is managed by Lloyd Strange. And it's an 8 excellent site with nearly all of our activities that are 9 taking place posted on that site, as well as a link to the 10 C.V.B., the City, and the County, so it makes a good place 11 for people to go find out what's going on in the county. 12 Are there any questions? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We need a motion to 14 accept the membership and a budget? 15 MR. SCHELLHASE: Correct. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion to 17 accept the membership -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Membership and 19 officers. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All officers and 21 membership. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Officers and membership 23 as presented. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Any 3-14-05 40 1 question or discussion on the motion? All in favor of the 2 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 7 General, we thank you for being here. 8 MR. SCHELLHASE: Thank you. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Just one comment, 10 Judge. That's a -- I looked over that list of members and 11 leaders, and that's a very impressive group of people. I'm 12 reminded there's a -- there's a lot of talent in Kerr 13 County, and we'll probably have more opportunities to tap 14 into that talent than we take advantage of. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I just have one -- 16 following up on that, a question in general. Are you -- is 17 there a maximum number of members you can have by the 18 bylaws? 19 MR. SCHELLHASE: A minimum of nine. There's 20 no max. On the board itself, it's nine. There's no max on 21 membership. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, thank you. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll now go to Item 5, 24 consider preliminary plat for Audubon Place, formerly known 25 as Cole Addition, located in Precinct 4. 3-14-05 41 1 MR. ODOM: Thank you. Two weeks ago we had a 2 concept plan, and at that time the -- I just bring it up to 3 your attention. It is Audubon Place. It was presented to 4 us as Cole Addition, and that was changed, so I asked them 5 to bring a letter to that effect before it went to 6 preliminary plat. You have before you the preliminary plat 7 as well as the drainage on that. It is into four lots with 8 28.85 acres. The location's in Precinct 4. It is off Goat 9 Creek Road and Wren Road -- actually, off Wren Road, but 10 Wren is off Goat Creek; that is the area we're talking 11 about. The back of the property is the City of Kerrville. 12 It meets all the requirements that we need to, and I -- 13 technically, there's no roads being put in. Just fronting 14 off that property. And I asked them to put that drain in 15 because City of Kerrville's behind it and their ETJ, so that 16 we could show what was going there, and in case there were 17 any problems with any people, we basically have it showing 18 where the drainage is going. I have no problems. I ask the 19 Court to accept the preliminary plat of Audubon Place. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I make a motion that 21 the Court accept the preliminary plat of Audubon Place. 22 Need to set a public hearing? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 24 MR. ODOM: No. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 3-14-05 42 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 2 approval of the preliminary plat. Any question or 3 discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion, 4 signify by raising your right hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's 9 move on to Item 8, if we might; consider, discuss, and take 10 appropriate action on programs offered and to be offered at 11 the Kerr County Juvenile Detention Facility. Commissioner 12 Baldwin, you asked that this be placed on the agenda. 13 There's Ms. Harris to make the presentation. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That is correct, sir. 15 And I just want to make a comment, that this item and the 16 next one dealing with the vehicle usage log are a couple of 17 items that I think that needs -- that this Court needs to 18 do. It's -- to me, it's the little things that we need to 19 keep an eye on and keep our finger on the pulse of that 20 creates accountability. If we don't do these things, then 21 we are doing what had been done and caused all the problems. 22 So, I just feel like that these are a couple of items that 23 -- that need to be done as far as this Commissioners Court, 24 to take -- take care of the public's property. 25 MS. HARRIS: Well, I certainly relish the 3-14-05 43 1 opportunity to get up and brag on the progress that we've 2 made at the facility, not only in open court, but in a 3 public forum. The more that we can present what is 4 occurring out at the facility in a positive light and to the 5 public, the better off we are, and so I really do welcome 6 this opportunity to outline the programs that we have out at 7 the facility and the good work that the staff that's out 8 there is doing in making the changes. We still have the 9 behavioral management component, 'cause it is a lock-down 10 secured facility that's registered with Texas Juvenile 11 Probation Commission. The primary focus of that facility 12 and the design of that facility and the concept was for 13 correctional purposes and behavior management, which that 14 still occurs. The correctional component is lined out to -- 15 to incorporate, of course, that there are consequences for 16 actions, both positive and negative, and we do have a level 17 system that is put in place by which residents work through 18 their level program. 19 We have orientation, which is a time period 20 of two weeks, which they do not have contact with outside 21 entities for those two weeks. Then they apply for their 22 freshman level. Their freshman level is for 30 days. Their 23 sophomore level is for 45 days -- excuse me, 35 days. Their 24 junior level is for 45 days, and their senior level, their 25 very last level, is for 56 days. And what we've 3-14-05 44 1 incorporated in this level system is, when they reach their 2 senior -- their final level, as they progress through the 3 level system, of course, there are more behavioral 4 expectations required of them. A shorter amount of 5 tolerance, if you will, for infractions of the rules. In 6 other words, when they're in orientation and freshman, for 7 example, we may give them three or four redirections. As 8 they move through the level system, those number of 9 redirections reduce significantly. We expect their behavior 10 to show more leadership qualities, more positive peer 11 qualities. 12 But they are rewarded in the level system. 13 When they reach their junior level, they're allowed to wear 14 their own clothing. They have to follow our dress code. 15 They have to follow our rules as to the type of clothing; no 16 gang colors, no gang logos, no name-brand clothing, 'cause 17 some name-brand clothing is associated with gang activity, 18 so we do not allow that. And the clothing is screened by 19 our shift supervisors, by our staff, before the clothing 20 ever makes its way to the dorm. And their senior level, 21 their 56 -- their last 56 days, with the Probation 22 Department's permission, they are allowed to go on furloughs 23 with their families. That helps the family and the juvenile 24 to reintegrate together and for the family to understand 25 that the juvenile that was sent there is not behaving in the 3-14-05 45 1 same manner as what they were when they first entered the 2 facility. And there is a psychological and an emotional 3 adjustment that parents and juveniles have to go through in 4 order to, to put it very plainly, get used to one another 5 again, because this juvenile is going to come out with a 6 different behavior in a more positive light. So, we 7 encourage the parents to come. 8 Now, we do have rules. They have to fill out 9 a furlough request, and they have to stay within the city 10 limits of Kerrville. They cannot leave the city limits of 11 Kerrville. We start the -- the furloughs out -- the first 12 one is an 8-hour furlough. The second one is a 12-hour 13 furlough. Then, subsequently, furloughs are 24 hours. The 14 last furlough before they are successfully discharged from 15 the program is a 48-hour furlough. When residents return to 16 the facility, they are drug-screened when they do return. 17 Now, probation officers do have the discretion to deny those 18 juveniles furloughs. If they do not want them to -- to go 19 out on furloughs, we do not allow that. That is a 20 privilege. That's a privilege that we set forth in the 21 facility. Therefore, we can take that away -- that 22 privilege away as we deem fit. Are there any questions 23 about our level system? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You can take away the 25 privilege? Or the probation officer can take away -- 3-14-05 46 1 MS. HARRIS: Either one. Either one. Since 2 we establish that privilege, we can take that privilege away 3 if we deem the behavior is not where we think it needs to 4 be. We can -- we can -- in the level system, if a resident 5 petitions and applies for his level, and if his behavior has 6 not depicted that level's expectation of behavior, we can 7 deny that resident his level, which would add time to the 8 end of his placement stay. The same consequence that, if a 9 resident receives his level, if his behavior deteriorates, 10 we can take that level away. We will give him credit for 11 the good days that he earned on that level, but he would 12 have to reapply for that level at a specified time set forth 13 by his counselor, and that extra time adds to the end. So, 14 they know that those levels are not automatic. Staff vote 15 on those levels as well, but the resident does not see that 16 vote. Teachers -- K.I.S.D. teachers vote. Yes? 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Is the drug 18 screening a urine test? 19 MS. HARRIS: Yes, it is. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: How long does it 21 take to gets the results, and how much does it cost? 22 MS. HARRIS: What we do for the residents, we 23 use those instant results. We know right then and there 24 if -- if the resident used while they were out on furlough. 25 And for -- we order those from Bob Barker. Those are, like, 3-14-05 47 1 two -- $200, and I cannot remember the number in a case, but 2 it's quite a few number of the little pallets. It's like a 3 litmus test. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 5 MS. HARRIS: Like a litmus test. And I 6 cannot remember the number that's in the case, but it's a 7 significant number. That lasts us quite a while. We also 8 use that on our preadjudicated residents as well, 'cause it 9 gives us an instant reading whenever the pre's come in. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are you going to go 11 through this? 12 MS. HARRIS: Yes, I am. Yes. That's part of 13 the behavior program that's in here. That's part of the 14 behavior modification program. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just one quick 16 question on the drug test -- the drug screen. 17 MS. HARRIS: Yes? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The method you use, 19 will that tell you what they may have ingested, or just that 20 they have taken a drug? 21 MS. HARRIS: It will identify -- 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Will it identify what 23 they took? 24 MS. HARRIS: Yes, sir. Yes, sir, it will 25 identify the substance. Our substance abuse program is -- 3-14-05 48 1 is designed to address the issues that a resident that comes 2 in diagnosed on their Axis 1 diagnosis in their 3 psychological that they are chemically dependent; they have 4 used drugs in the past and they have a significant substance 5 abuse problem. And our substance abuse counseling, they 6 require one hour of individual substance abuse counseling 7 per week, plus one hour of group per week. This is in 8 addition to their behavior management groups that they 9 receive every day and their behavior counseling that they 10 receive every day, so that's in addition to. The Hill 11 Country Council on Alcohol and Drug Abuse, which will come 12 later in another item, provides the individual counseling, 13 because that has to be done by either a licensed chemical 14 dependency counselor or a licensed professional counselor or 15 an L.C.D.C., if you will, intern. Either one. And the two 16 full-time counselors that we have do not have the proper 17 licensure for the substance abuse counseling and the groups, 18 and so therefore that is what Hill Country Alcohol and Drug 19 Abuse Council would entail. 20 We have also -- I also have included the 21 treatment program for youth with sexual behavior problems. 22 That is our newly created sex offender treatment program. 23 Statistics are showing -- and we did visit with Bexar 24 County -- that they have seen an increase in sexual offender 25 offenses by younger juveniles, and they have seen an 3-14-05 49 1 increase in those cases, as well as substance abuse related 2 cases. And that seems to be what is happening all over the 3 state, is that this is an increasing offense. But it's 4 being done by younger juveniles than what it was in the 5 past; 13, 14-year-olds, sometimes 12-year-olds. This 6 program, we have been very fortunate in that a young lady 7 who has a license for sex offender treatment therapy in 8 North Carolina has gone through her process for the state of 9 Texas to be able to provide sex offender treatment, and she 10 would be able to provide that for us under the supervision 11 of a registered sex offender therapist provider in San 12 Antonio, and she would be under that person's supervision at 13 her cost. And she -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have a question about 15 -- well, my question is -- maybe this is a stupid question, 16 but what is -- what is considered sexual behavior problems? 17 MS. HARRIS: It can be -- it can be a myriad 18 of things, Commissioner. There are times that a juvenile 19 will be adjudicated for a -- a sexual crime. If it's an 20 older teenage boy, he may have had a younger teenage 21 girlfriend. They may have had relations, and the girl's 22 parents objected to that and filed sexual charges -- sexual 23 assault on that young man. And that may be the only 24 ramification of that, and there is no deviant sexual 25 behavior. Now, however, though, there are those sexual 3-14-05 50 1 charges -- those sexual cases where it could be a little 2 sister, a little brother, if you will, that this child 3 normally has been sexually abused themselves in the 4 growing-up years, and they are repeating or mimicking or 5 acting out their psychological difficulties. And it may be 6 a neighbor's child; it may be their own sibling, cousin, if 7 you will. And it may be -- I don't want to get too graphic, 8 but it may be showing some signs of some -- of some sexual 9 deviant behavior. It may not actually be the act of sex 10 itself, but other -- other actions. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Any sexual behavior of a 12 minor is kind of what would be -- 13 MS. HARRIS: Yes. Yes. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Pretty broad. Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But all of them have 16 broken the law in one way or another. I mean, we're -- 17 MS. HARRIS: That's true. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're not a La 19 Hacienda type thing. 20 MS. HARRIS: No, no, no, no, no. These 21 things have been through the juvenile justice system, yes. 22 They have committed crimes of one type or another. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Could they -- I mean, 24 would they -- say they were just kind of bad behavior. 25 MS. HARRIS: Yes. 3-14-05 51 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And it became apparent 2 that part of that -- that they also had some sexual 3 problems. 4 MS. HARRIS: Yes. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do they get admitted even 6 though -- or can they be admitted into a sexual behavior 7 program -- do they have to be -- the criminal act in sexual 8 behavior, or could it be just, you know, robbery, and then 9 they had this problem come up? 10 MS. HARRIS: How that can occur is, the only 11 way that a kid would qualify to be in -- into the sexual 12 offender treatment program is that they were diagnosed off 13 their psychological evaluation prior to coming to the 14 facility -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 16 MS. HARRIS: -- as having a sexual acting out 17 diagnosis. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 19 MS. HARRIS: That would be the only way that 20 they would be put in this program. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. 22 MS. HARRIS: Otherwise, they would be put 23 into our general corrections program. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But all of that has 3-14-05 52 1 gone before a juvenile judge prior to whoever seeing -- 2 MS. HARRIS: That's correct. That's correct, 3 prior. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's part of the -- 5 MS. HARRIS: Yes. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- adjudication 7 process? 8 MS. HARRIS: That's correct. Because the 9 psychological evaluations have to be done prior to placing 10 the juvenile with us. That is our reviewing instrument by 11 which we look to see if the child is even appropriate for 12 our facility. And -- and we look at that, and then we know 13 what avenue to direct that child in. And, yes, the judge 14 will put that in the court order, yes. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My whole point here 16 today is for this Court to give permission to her to do 17 these programs, even though they're up and running, or going 18 to be running soon. I would -- and the substance abuse 19 program, just in the back of my mind, back in December, 20 maybe January, when we were approving some things dealing 21 with the Juvenile Detention Facility, that was kind of 22 included. So, to me, it seems like that we have approved 23 the substance abuse program. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I recall that. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: As far as this Court 3-14-05 53 1 approving and giving permission for -- for the program to 2 move forward. But I would like to see us have a court order 3 on the sexual behavior program as well, which I -- up until 4 this morning, I opposed. But I've changed my mind this 5 morning; my wife got ahold of me. And, so, are there 6 others? Are you going to lay out some other programs here 7 today? 8 MS. HARRIS: Well, then I might want to bring 9 to the Court's attention that we are starting negotiations 10 or con -- or conversations with the Kerr County Juvenile 11 Probation Department and also the Adult Probation Department 12 about doing a collaborative county probation department 13 community service project by which our kids, the Juvenile 14 Probation Department's kids and the Adult Probation 15 Department probationers, can give back to the community in 16 the form of community service. Consequently, you cannot mix 17 juveniles and adult probationers. They would -- what we're 18 looking at is doing a probation community garden at the 19 facility. We have spoken with some people that are willing 20 to make some donations. We have spoken with some different 21 community entities by which they could use our kids, like 22 cleaning up the park, painting park benches, things of that 23 nature. The adult probationers perhaps would do the heavy 24 work and getting the garden prepared; that would be their 25 portion, and then the juvenile kids working off their 3-14-05 54 1 community service would do, you know, the planting and the 2 weeding and the harvesting of the vegetables. And we would 3 donate vegetables to nursing homes and things of that 4 nature. But also, especially in the summertime, that we 5 would take our senior level kids, not anything under a 6 senior level, also under the supervision of our staff, to 7 different community service projects by which they would 8 give back to the community. As a matter of fact, they have 9 a meeting -- if the Court approves me to move forward with 10 that program, I -- I have a meeting with the Juvenile 11 Probation Department tomorrow. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the only -- and I 13 think you were saying this, but to make sure I understand, I 14 would be in support of doing that, but I'm not sure I 15 want -- would be in favor of kids that come in from outside 16 counties mingling with Kerr County kids in Kerr County, you 17 know, probation that aren't in the facility. I'd rather 18 keep -- and the reason is, I think the kids talk, and 19 there's no need to -- in my mind, to expand some of that 20 communication. I mean, are they going -- is the intent to 21 keep kids from the facility in one group, and the other -- 22 you know -- 23 MS. HARRIS: That was the intent, because 24 there is a T.J.P.C. standard by which you cannot mingle 25 probation kids that are not incarcerated -- 3-14-05 55 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 2 MS. HARRIS: -- with kids that are serving 3 their probation time in an incarcerated setting. And it 4 would have to be our kids that are placed with us. It would 5 have to be in the court order that they would be allowed to 6 work off any community service that the Judge would impose 7 on that resident. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: As long as they're 9 kept -- you know, the facility kids are kept as a unit, I 10 don't have a problem with it. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let me ask 12 Commissioner Baldwin a question. Commissioner, is it your 13 intent that the Court approve all of these -- I count some 14 25 all together -- programs that are -- it's your thought 15 that the Court approve -- give a stamp of approval to all 25 16 of the programs offered? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I haven't seen 25. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I counted all 19 these, plus these five right here, counted all these on 20 these three pages. And that's auxiliary programs, the 21 individualized programs, and the three major, plus these 22 that are listed on this second sheet. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you a 24 question. The auxiliary programs, does another county pay 25 Kerr County for that program? 3-14-05 56 1 MS. HARRIS: I'm sorry, I'm not understanding 2 your question. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You have a brochure 4 here, Auxiliary Program. 5 MS. HARRIS: Yes. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And one of the things 7 here that the Commissioner from Precinct 2 is talking about 8 is auxiliary programs. 9 MS. HARRIS: That's in -- those auxiliary 10 programs are included in our -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What about the 12 individualized programs? Same? 13 MS. HARRIS: Yes. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And -- no. Actually, 15 all -- I'm going to make a motion that we approve the -- the 16 sexual behavior program. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And the rest of them 19 are just kind of every -- day-to-day operations, the way I 20 see it. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. I just wanted 22 to know where you are. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Community service would be an 24 additional one, too, if I'm hearing what she's saying. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If that's -- I had 3-14-05 57 1 previously -- we had talked about it previously, so I'm kind 2 of up on it. If y'all feel comfortable with doing it -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Pursuing that, yeah. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- it's fine with me. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, do you want to go 6 ahead and do one at a time? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I do. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll second the first 9 motion. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. The -- move for 11 approval for the youth with sexual behavioral problems, as 12 outlined in -- in this treatment program in my hand. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I already seconded that. 14 Okay. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: You seconded it? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, twice. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Motion made and 18 seconded for approval of the sexual offender treatment 19 program. Any further question or discussion on that motion? 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. I need some 21 more information about what I'm voting on. 22 MS. HARRIS: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I've got this 24 one-page document that says Programs. Do I understand that 25 we -- these are three basic programs, and these 3-14-05 58 1 individualized programs and auxiliary programs are part of 2 these three basic -- 3 MS. HARRIS: Yes, sir. Yes, sir. They 4 support those three major programs, yes, sir. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. Now, on the 6 sexual offender program, we do not currently have such a 7 program? 8 MS. HARRIS: That's correct. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We're proposing 10 to -- 11 MS. HARRIS: That's correct. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- to begin that 13 capability? 14 MS. HARRIS: Yes. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And have one. So, 16 do I understand that if, currently, a child that is sent to 17 be incarcerated and they need sexual offender program 18 treatment, and they're a Kerr County child, then they're 19 going to be sent somewhere else? 20 MS. HARRIS: Yes, sir. They would have to 21 be, yes, sir. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, this would give 23 us the capability of providing treatment for our children 24 and other -- 25 MS. HARRIS: Correct. 3-14-05 59 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And others? How 2 much is this going to cost us, adding this program? 3 MS. HARRIS: Adding this program? That 4 will -- she is going to be charging $45 an hour for this. 5 Right now, there would be two juveniles that would be suited 6 for her program. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: $45 for how much time? 8 MS. HARRIS: For one hour of individual 9 counseling per week. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, per week. So it's 11 $45 per week -- 12 MS. HARRIS: Per hour. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: About how much would -- I 14 guess the idea is, how much is it -- well, two questions to 15 follow up on Commissioner Nicholson's. About how many hours 16 a week would the -- if there is such a thing as an average 17 kid require? And, two, is that billed to the county? 18 MS. HARRIS: No, that's our service. That's 19 our counseling service. That's part of our treatment 20 program. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So we'll pay -- we 22 get a kid from Bexar County -- 23 MS. HARRIS: Yes. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- and we're paid 25 "X" dollars, a formula that's partially determined by the 3-14-05 60 1 State, and we apply off of that. So this is going to be -- 2 the additional cost of this will not -- this will be a 3 direct cost to Kerr County? 4 MS. HARRIS: That's correct. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 6 MS. HARRIS: That's correct. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And what, typically, 8 we get around $2,500, $3,000 a month, something on that 9 order, to house a child here? 10 MS. HARRIS: Per child? At $83 a day, times 11 30 -- 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: 2,500. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 2,500. 14 MS. HARRIS: Yes, 2,500. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, any potential 16 savings to us for having this program would result from not 17 having to send one of our children to another facility? 18 MS. HARRIS: That's correct, and plus you're 19 going to get referrals from other counties, since this is an 20 increasing population. And I know -- I know where you're -- 21 what you're thinking, and you're absolutely -- 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Not spending any 23 more money? 24 MS. HARRIS: We put it in -- I put it in the 25 budget that y'all approved for this treatment program, 3-14-05 61 1 because I was seeing where we were heading for this, and I 2 could see where this was going to be a viable thing, and I 3 could see where it was going to be feasible to -- to get 4 this individual to do the treatment. Because persons of her 5 licensure and experience are few and far between for sex 6 offender treatment; they're just not out there a lot. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: How many facilities -- 8 juvenile detention facilities presently offer sex offender 9 treatment programs now in the state? 10 MS. HARRIS: I only know of two. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So there'd be some -- 12 some of the economic betterment would be by virtue of 13 running at higher capacity? 14 MS. HARRIS: Volume, yes. Yes, sir. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So we'll make, 16 potentially, less per kid using this program, but we'll be 17 able to have a lot more kids? 18 MS. HARRIS: That's correct, 'cause you're 19 going to attract another population, if you will, of kids. 20 We're expanding our treatment program to -- to try to be 21 like a one-stop shopping service, if you will. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And you'll be able to 23 track each program individually? 24 MS. HARRIS: Yes. Yes. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Basically, each child will 3-14-05 62 1 take one hour of individual counseling per week? 2 MS. HARRIS: That's correct, and they will 3 also have to have a group setting. And we wanted to defer 4 some of the cost of that treatment program. Like, there are 5 workbooks that the kids would be going through. I, in a 6 letter -- and I believe I submitted a copy of the cover 7 letter that I wanted to send out to all the counties after 8 the Court's decision today, that we would defer that cost of 9 any curriculum materials for the sex offender treatment 10 program; we would defer that cost to the parent. And that 11 would be in the court order, that the parents would have to 12 buy those materials for that child. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Ms. Harris, the one 14 -- the one-hour counseling per week is a one-on-one session, 15 or is that a group setting? 16 MS. HARRIS: It's a one-on-one, yes. Yes, 17 sir. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: The group would be in addition 19 to the individualized one-on-one? 20 MS. HARRIS: That's correct. That's correct. 21 And she would only do a group with only the sex offender 22 kids. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, after this 24 conversation we just had, which was a good conversation -- I 25 appreciate you bringing that up -- I think that we need to 3-14-05 63 1 probably bring this program back in here in six months and 2 do a -- peek under the hood, as our good friend that's all 3 ears would say, and take a real close look at it 4 financially. You know, I don't think any of us can pass 5 judgment on how you treat people, but financially, I think 6 that we need to take a close look at it, and we need 7 somebody to remind us to do that. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think during our budget 9 process would be the time to do that, and probably before 10 six months. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, that's probably 12 true. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Probably true. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You two 16 Commissioners okay with the direction we're going on this? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm a little queasy, 19 but -- 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You're the closest 21 to it. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Little nauseous, but -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: A little nauseous, but 24 other than that, I think we need to move forward. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: When I applied for 3-14-05 64 1 this job, this wasn't in the job description, so I'm plowing 2 new ground here. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or 4 comments on the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify 5 by raising your right hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, I'm not ready to 11 move on yet. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm not either. My 13 question is, are we comfortable with the substance abuse 14 program, and has this Court given permission to do that? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we need to do the 16 same thing for that program as a new motion. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I so move. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 21 approval of the substance abuse treatment program. Any 22 question or comment on that motion? All in favor of that 23 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 3-14-05 65 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just a question. I 4 think I know the answer, but one question. Since we've 5 dealt with and approved two of the three that are listed as 6 programs, are we assuming that behavior modification is just 7 inherent to the task, or does that require a court stamp of 8 approval as well? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I personally think that 10 we should approve either the behavior modification or the 11 overall package as the base behavior modification. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's kind of where 13 I was coming from earlier. I would move approval of the 14 behavior modification as incorporated in our basic program 15 offering. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That also includes the 17 individualized -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And individualized. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- and the auxiliary? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 23 approval of those components. Any question or comment on 24 that motion? All in favor of that motion, signify by 25 raising your right hand. 3-14-05 66 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. 5 MS. HARRIS: Did you make a decision on the 6 community service? Is that something that you want to -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm certainly in favor 8 of it. I just -- I didn't know if these guys had heard 9 enough to make a decision or not. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We'd like a little 12 more enlightenment about it. 13 MS. HARRIS: Well, I'm having the meeting 14 tomorrow with the Juvenile Probation Department to line out 15 more details. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, my view is pursue 17 it, and then when you have something in writing, then we can 18 come back and approve it at the next meeting, but I think 19 it's a good idea. 20 MS. HARRIS: Okay, sure. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's fine. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. That's all you got for 23 us for now on this particular agenda item? 24 MS. HARRIS: Yes, sir. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We have a couple of 3-14-05 67 1 timed items that we need to get out of the way before we 2 break. I think we have a timed item for 10 o'clock, and 3 that's receive and open bids for the Flat Rock Lake project. 4 That's Item 6. What do we have? 5 (Discussion off the record.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: The first one I have is from 7 ERS, Inc., re: cleanout. Quote of $287,667. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would blow you 9 away. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You'll be happy now, 11 Bill. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Next one we have is from 13 Excavation Technologies, Inc. The estimated total project 14 on the -- apparently on the conditions as delineated, is 15 $69,200. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's it. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: That's it. Okay. Those are 18 the only two bids that we have. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would move that we 20 receive the bids and -- and I'd like to review them with 21 Mr. Holekamp and report back to the Court at our next 22 meeting. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded, bids 25 be received and referred to Facilities Manager, and with him 3-14-05 68 1 to report back at the next meeting. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And me. I'll review 3 with him. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, with Commissioner 2 and 5 with the Facilities Director. Any question or discussion on 6 the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 7 your right hand. 8 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 10 (No response.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It goes back over here, I 13 think. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. The next item that we 15 have is a timed item for 10:05. That is to open the annual 16 bids for road base material, cold mix, black base, trap rock 17 aggregate, asphalt emulsion oil, corrugated metal pipe, and 18 equipment by the hour with operator. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, I have a note from 20 the Clerk's office that one bid came in this morning at 21 8:30 a.m., and that is after the cutoff date, and we need to 22 make a decision if we're going to accept that bid or not. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How many bids do you 24 have, total? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably 10, but they're 3-14-05 69 1 for different -- this one happens to be for base, and I 2 don't know how many of the other ones are for base material. 3 I mean, I know some are for equipment by the hour. Some 4 are -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think the more the 6 merrier, huh? 7 MR. ODOM: Well, technically, I mean, we 8 probably should change the specs to say before 10 o'clock or 9 10:05 that meeting. We just did it to make sure they got 10 in, but I'm not opposed to it. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm not either. I 12 think we need to take a look at all of them. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there -- 14 MR. ODOM: Technically -- I wish Rex was in 15 here. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can hold that one to 17 the end to make sure there's not a problem on accepting that 18 one. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. First bid we have is 20 from Leo R. "Bobby" Jenschke, Jr. That's the hourly 21 equipment. Cat D-6 dozer with ripper or equivalent, a 22 hundred -- with an operator, I assume -- yeah. $128 an 23 hour. Scraper, $125 an hour. Cat 12G motor grader or 24 equivalent, $88 an hour. 930 loader or equivalent is $128 25 an hour. 1,500-gallon water truck, $65 an hour. 3-14-05 70 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It just goes to show 2 you that time is fun when you're having flies. Because it 3 seemed like to me it was a month ago that we did this. Just 4 seems like the other day that we did this. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: The next bid comes from 6 Schwarz Construction Company, equipment and operator bids. 7 Cat D-6 dozer with ripper or equivalent, $70 an hour. 8 Scraper, $80 an hour. Cat 12G motor grader or equivalent, 9 $70 an hour. Cat 930 -- or 930 loader or equivalent, $75 an 10 hour. 12-ton flat wheel roller, $55 an hour. 12-ton 11 pneumatic roller, $55 an hour. 1,500-gallon water truck, 12 $55 per hour. 13 The next one comes from Edmund Jenschke, 14 Incorporated. Cat D-6 dozer with ripper or equivalent, $108 15 per hour. Scraper, $100 per hour. Cat 12G motor grader or 16 equivalent, $78 an hour. 930 loader, $85 an hour. 12-ton 17 flat wheel roller, $75 an hour. 12-ton pneumatic roller, 18 $60 an hour. 1,500-gallon water truck, $50 an hour. Also, 19 optional bids for asphalt distributor, $130 an hour, and a 20 chip spreader, $130 an hour. 21 Next bid we have from Wilson Culverts, 22 Incorporated. These are corrugated metal pipe bids. 23 15-inch arch, $6.46 per linear foot. 18-inch arch, $7.69 a 24 linear foot. 24-inch arch, $10.15 a linear foot. 30-inch 25 arch, $12.79 a linear foot. 15-inch coupling band, $9.69 3-14-05 71 1 each. 18-inch coupling band, $11.54 each. 24-inch coupling 2 band, $15.23 each. And 30-inch coupling band, $19.19 each. 3 (Judge sneezed.) 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Bless you. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: The next item we have is from 6 Ergon Asphalt and Emulsions, and we have a number of bids. 7 CRS-2 emulsion oil, 94 cents a gallon, f.o.b. Kerr County. 8 AEP emulsion oil, $1.08 per gallon, f.o.b. Kerr County. 9 Next one we have is from Vulcan Construction 10 Materials, LP. The bid submitted is for paving aggregates. 11 Trap rock, Grade 3, f.o.b. Kerr County, $22.83 a ton. 12 Actually, trap rock, Grade 4 and 5, f.o.b. Kerr County, are 13 all $22.83 per ton, Kerr County being defined as a 25-mile 14 radius of Kerrville. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's another one. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Hot mix, cold laid asphalt 17 bid. Black base, Type AA, $27.42 a ton. Cold mix, Type CC, 18 $27.42 a ton. Both of those are delivered within a 25-mile 19 radius of Kerrville. 20 Next one we have is from Koch Materials 21 Company. That's K-o-c-h. CRS-2, emulsion oil, $1.08 a 22 gallon. AEP nonsoluble emulsion oil, $1.21 a gallon. 23 Additional emulsion oil products, AEP nonsoluble with water, 24 $1.02 a gallon. SS-1, soluble with water, $1.03 per gallon. 25 HFRS-2, $1.03 a gallon. HFRS-2P, $1.27 a gallon. All of 3-14-05 72 1 those are f.o.b. Kerr County. That's all they bid. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, that's all the 3 ones that were here on time, and here's the one that came in 4 late. Rex isn't here to ask for his opinion on that. I 5 guess later -- 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I think before I put 7 that one on the record, we probably need to make some 8 decision on whether or not we're going to accept that as a 9 viable bid. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I think by 11 looking at what it is, for local -- it's a local contractor 12 on base material. And I suspect that since that's the only 13 one we got, and Leonard's, I think, general policy has been 14 that you go with the cheapest one around, basically, 'cause 15 the freight's so high on that -- in the eastern part of the 16 county, usually use Drymala or Reeh. Then in the western 17 part of the county, you use Masters, someone like that. So, 18 anyway, I think it's kind of -- doesn't make a whole lot of 19 difference really one way or the other if we accept it or 20 not. I really -- my personal feeling is if we put a 21 deadline on it, we ought to give them a deadline. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm with you. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: If we start accepting bids 24 after the -- after the time and date, we're just opening 25 ourselves up for -- 3-14-05 73 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. Let's do it, 2 though. I have a question, Leonard. 3 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The trap rock. 5 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that the same grade 7 or quality, or -- I don't know what the word I'm looking 8 for -- as the State uses? 9 MR. ODOM: Yes. But you understand that 10 that's gradation, and there's not a specific spec for trap 11 rock. It will -- it will specify in their handbook to use 12 igneous type rock, and there's a few of them, but when you 13 get into gradation, the answer is yes. When you get into 14 something that says that they have it in their specs, they 15 don't use it, because it's such a heavy material. They use 16 a lightweight material, other than putting it on the highway 17 where the speeds are higher than what we have. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 19 MR. ODOM: So -- but it is gradation. 3, 4 20 and 5 is gradation, the same gradation they have. But to 21 say that they use trap rock, they do not specifically use 22 trap rock. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. Cool. You 24 answered my question. I was just kind of curious about it. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question. Leonard, it 3-14-05 74 1 appears to me we have fewer bids this time than we did last 2 year. 3 MR. ODOM: Well, we didn't have anything from 4 Wheatcraft, and the oils were about the same that we had. 5 By-the-hour was there. We -- Contech, I don't know why we 6 didn't get anything from Contech as far as corrugated metal 7 pipe. That's the one that I know we didn't do, or Walters 8 who bids through Contech. And the other one was the base 9 material. There's Wheatcraft, and there was Jimmy Powell at 10 Lucky 3 there at Center Point, and we sent all those out. 11 And why, I don't know. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's interesting 13 that only local contractors -- none of them chose to really 14 bid, other than one in Ingram. 15 MR. ODOM: By-the-hour is normally the same 16 ones that we've been having over a period of years, so I'm 17 down one on -- Contech is the steel people. And at least 18 Wilson committed themselves, because steel is just going out 19 of sight. And maybe they didn't wish to commit themselves 20 for a year; I don't know. But the local people for 21 material, I don't know why they didn't bid. Every one of 22 them had the same -- same went out to everyone that we've 23 had on the bidding list last year, which we had a bunch of 24 people, but local people seem not to bid on material for 25 base material. 3-14-05 75 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would suspect maybe 2 it's because of the large amount of activity and the fact 3 that if you're in the area where they are, I mean, you're 4 going to give them a -- 5 MR. ODOM: We look at location; has to do 6 with freight cost and running up and down the road, so 7 that's the way we try to split it up, anyway. What's -- 8 maybe a price might be a little bit different, but by the 9 time we get through hauling, and time is money to us in a -- 10 in a government entity, so we look at the most local one 11 based upon our needs. And -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In the case of 13 Wheatcraft, they may be angling to get out of that business. 14 MR. ODOM: Well, I'm sort of getting out of 15 the gravel business. That's one reason we've looked at trap 16 rock. We thought that was a better material over the 17 long-term. We think the oils will try to hold in there. We 18 know the trap rock will, but we got away from the pea 19 gravel. And he -- I heard that he was not -- I won't say 20 that, but -- but there's a possibility he may not be in the 21 base business. I don't know. We'll see. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Do I hear a motion that the 23 bids be accepted and referred to the Road and Bridge 24 Administrator for review and recommendation? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 3-14-05 76 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second -- whatever. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Any 5 question or discussion on the motion? All in favor of the 6 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 7 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 9 (No response.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Break time, Judge? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll stand in recess for 15 13 minutes. 14 (Recess taken from 10:32 a.m. to 10:50 a.m.) 15 - - - - - - - - - - 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to 17 order. We were in recess for 15 minutes, and we'll resume. 18 Next item on the agenda is to consider Item 9, consider, 19 discuss, and take appropriate action on adopting a vehicle 20 usage log for the Juvenile Detention Facility. Commissioner 21 Baldwin. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. How many 23 vehicles does the County own out there? 24 MS. HARRIS: Two. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Two cars? Two -- 3-14-05 77 1 like, a van and -- 2 MS. HARRIS: One van and one car. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And a golf cart. 4 Don't forget the golf cart. A van and a car. Do you -- do 5 you use a vehicle usage log? Do you have some kind of log 6 there that you log mileage? 7 MS. HARRIS: Yes, sir. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you? 9 MS. HARRIS: Yes. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Would you include 11 those in our -- whatever -- whenever you report to us? 12 MS. HARRIS: Sure. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: From time to time, so 14 we can see the mileage, just like we do everything else? 15 MS. HARRIS: If you would like, do you want 16 to have a copy of the form? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure. 18 MS. HARRIS: Now, this was something that we 19 attempted to start back in the summer. It fell by the 20 wayside, and we have recently picked it back up. Because 21 during the fall and the winter, it kind of fell by the 22 wayside because we were concentrating on other things. So, 23 anyway, we have picked this back up and we have these on 24 clipboards, one in the car and one in the van. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I like yours more than 3-14-05 78 1 ours. 2 MS. HARRIS: This is just something that -- 3 that I've used in the past in another facility. And I 4 called Mr. Holekamp to see if there was a universal mileage 5 log that the County used. He indicated that there wasn't, 6 and so I just did this one. If you -- if you want me to 7 change it, I can. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Looks good. Any kind of 9 a log works, and yours is fine. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, but we need to 11 have it -- whatever time frame that you report to this 12 Court, and I don't know what -- when that is, but whenever 13 you do that, we'd like a copy of this as well. 14 MS. HARRIS: I'll probably -- if you want me 15 to, I can include it on the end of the month, 'cause then 16 you'd have a full month's if you want it. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think in a monthly 18 report would be good. And we -- we haven't discussed a full 19 report, but you know the type of things, the enrollment and 20 any other any comments that are -- you know, you think are 21 important for us to know about. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, Ms. Harris is 23 sort of doing this right now. 24 MS. HARRIS: Yes. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Enrollments, new 3-14-05 79 1 contracts, whatever. Whatever. 2 MS. HARRIS: Yes, that was in the report that 3 I sent y'all. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, Judge, there's no 5 action on Item 9. Thank you. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Appreciate it. Anybody 7 else have anything on Item 9 to mention? Okay, we'll move 8 on to Item 10, consider and discuss contracts between Kerr 9 County Juvenile Detention Facility and outside entities. 10 Commissioner Letz. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I put this on the agenda 12 based on -- I think it was a comment from two meetings ago, 13 for us to get these -- the form of the contracts before us 14 and let us approve them as we do with the Sheriff's 15 Department, his placement contracts. And Ms. Harris has 16 done that, so I thank her. I also asked her, when I was 17 visiting with her, just to give us a list of the counties 18 that we have contracts with that are pending, and it's an 19 extensive list. Appreciate that as well. Any other 20 comments -- any comments? 21 MS. HARRIS: No, sir. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On any of this? I have a 23 question specifically -- well, the contract for the 24 consulting services contract. 25 MS. HARRIS: Is that Ms. Edwards, the nurse? 3-14-05 80 1 I believe that's Ms. Edwards' contract. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 3 MS. HARRIS: Yes, sir. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It seemed -- well, it's 5 rather old; I think this probably ought to be done annually, 6 so I think that needs to be updated. And I don't know -- on 7 all of these, I think the County Attorney needs to approve 8 as to form. I don't know if he's done that one. I think on 9 the -- this one, I believe, the residential services 10 contract, I think that's already been approved as to form? 11 MR. EMERSON: The pre and post? Is that what 12 you're talking about? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, it's the post. 15 MR. EMERSON: Yes, sir. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the pre; they're both 17 up here. Those two have been approved. The contract for 18 psychological evaluation? Have you looked at this? 19 MS. HARRIS: Mr. Motley constructed that one 20 back in July for the -- the psychological one. I gave -- I 21 don't know if you had time to look at them or not. I 22 forwarded a copy of those two that you have in your hand to 23 him. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, as soon as Rex -- 25 you know, I think we can approve the form of the other two 3-14-05 81 1 today. On the other two, the health service authority 2 contract and then the contract for psychological evaluation, 3 we get Rex to take a look at those, make sure that those are 4 in -- 5 MS. HARRIS: Sure. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- order. 7 MS. HARRIS: Do you want us to continue using 8 those two individuals for the services that they provide, or 9 do you want me to -- 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Continue using the 11 people, or continue using the contract? 12 MS. HARRIS: The people. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's your decision. 14 MS. HARRIS: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I think you need 16 to -- you know what you need a lot better than I do, anyway. 17 MS. HARRIS: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You know, I think the way 19 that I look at it is to get the best service for the least 20 money. If these are the people that can do that, continue, 21 but I think we need to have current contracts on a continual 22 basis on all of them. I would make a motion to approve the 23 form of the residential services contract for 24 postadjudicated juvenile offenders in secure placement, and 25 the contract and agreement for secure preadjudicated 3-14-05 82 1 residential service of juvenile offenders space-available 2 contract as to form, and allow Ms. Harris to enter into 3 these contracts with other counties. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: As she sees fit. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I also sign that. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the County Judge also 8 would sign all the contracts. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. We have a motion 10 and a second. Sheriff, you had a comment? 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Only comment I have on 12 the independent -- or on the contracts, like, for doctors 13 and that, I know one thing our attorney -- and not Rex. Our 14 civil attorney, because they went through some lawsuits, and 15 I'm fixing to redo ours. He said, like, on medical stuff, 16 our doctor that does the jail inmates, that contract needs 17 to really be rewritten to be an independent contractor to 18 alleviate some of the liability on the County's part. So 19 we're fixing to start doing that, but that may be considered 20 in these contracts. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, that's something that 22 the County Attorney's going to be working on for future 23 court action. Any further questions or comments about the 24 motion? Yes, sir? 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Ms. Harris, help 3-14-05 83 1 me -- 2 MS. HARRIS: Yes, sir. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- on my continuing 4 education here. The $83 a day is an amount that is less 5 than the State prescribes for that kind of offender, but 6 it's an amount that's deemed to be competitive? 7 MS. HARRIS: That's correct, yes, sir. The 8 average per diem across the state is $80. That's the 9 average per diem. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's the max the 11 State allows? 12 MS. HARRIS: Depending on the classification 13 of resident, it's $109. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On that topic, on the 15 drug abuse and the sexual behavior -- 16 MS. HARRIS: Mm-hmm. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- candidates, do those 18 -- do the other facilities that offer that program -- are 19 they in that $80 to $83 range? 20 MS. HARRIS: Yes, sir. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I think it used -- previously, 22 the rate that you could get for specialized programs, the 23 sex offender treatment program, for example, I think at one 24 time got up to $115. 25 MS. HARRIS: $115, yes, sir. 3-14-05 84 1 JUDGE TINLEY: That's as high as it got, and 2 there was some additional that was obtainable for -- for 3 substance abuse programs. And there were one or two other 4 very specialized programs that you could get surcharges on, 5 but the competitive environment has not permitted that in a 6 couple years now. 7 MS. HARRIS: 'Cause there's more beds than 8 there are kids. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Ms. Harris, what -- 12 what's the difference between the -- the status of the 13 children that are -- are placed at the 3H Youth Ranch as 14 opposed to our post-adjudication facility? 15 MS. HARRIS: It has to do with prescribed 16 level of care. The Texas Department of Protective and 17 Regulatory Services has a list of levels of care. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 19 MS. HARRIS: And in psychological -- 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Four. 21 MS. HARRIS: Yes, sir. And in psychological 22 evaluations or psychiatric evaluations, it's determined what 23 level of care is appropriate for that child based on their 24 -- their psychological and emotional, so that's what it's 25 based on. 3-14-05 85 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The type of crime 2 doesn't have anything to do with it? 3 MS. HARRIS: No, sir. And sometimes even 4 kids that are at youth ranches have not committed any 5 crimes. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 7 MS. HARRIS: It's based on their emotional 8 and their psychological -- 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. I think the 10 Hill Country Youth Ranch are that kind of children. 11 MS. HARRIS: Yes, sir. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think 3H have been 13 convicted of a crime. 14 MS. HARRIS: Yes, sir, you're correct. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 16 discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion, 17 signify by raising your right hand. 18 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Thank 22 you very much, Ms. Harris. The next item is Item 11, 23 approve for signature contract for services with Hill 24 Country Council on Alcohol and Drug Abuse, Incorporated. 25 Ms. Harris again, another item concerning your facility. 3-14-05 86 1 MS. HARRIS: It's the Kerr County Juvenile 2 Facility Show. So, I believe that you have a copy of the 3 contract that Mr. Emerson constructed and made some 4 amendments to -- I believe that the Bandera County Attorney 5 constructed the original contract; Mr. Emerson made 6 amendments to that contract or changes to the contract. The 7 County Attorney in Bandera approved those changes, and I 8 believe what you have before you is the finished product for 9 your approval. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd move approval of 11 the contract for services, Hill Country Council on Alcohol 12 and Drug Abuse, Incorporated, authorize the County Judge to 13 sign same. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and second to 16 approve the contract. I have a couple of questions, 17 Ms. Harris. These may be something more appropriate to 18 address to Mr. Emerson. The termination provisions of the 19 contract allow the Hill Country Council on Alcohol and Drug 20 Abuse to terminate for no specified reason, apparently, on 21 30 days notice, while the contract provides that the County 22 may only terminate upon 30 days notice with cause. And I 23 think mutuality would require that that "with cause" needs 24 to be struck. That's my thinking. Secondly, on Page 3, 25 we've got an indemnification clause from the County running 3-14-05 87 1 in favor of the Hill Country Council on Alcohol and Drug 2 Abuse. Any time I've seen an indemnification clause, I get 3 a little spooked. 4 MS. HARRIS: I would defer that -- the 5 questions to the County Attorney. He's more knowledgeable. 6 MR. EMERSON: I think the response to that, 7 Judge, on the "with cause" clause, I completely agree with 8 you, but we went back and forth and back and forth and back 9 and forth, and I finally just said fine, that's a decision 10 for Commissioners Court to make as to the mutuality of that. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Strike it. Simple as 13 that. 14 MR. EMERSON: The indemnification that's in 15 there, quite frankly, I don't see that we could ever -- that 16 we would ever be indemnifying them for anything. I may be 17 wrong, but there's no set medical treatment of any kind. 18 It's strictly counseling. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: You think it's a hollow 20 provision? 21 MR. EMERSON: Yes, sir, I really do. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My motion -- did I make a 24 motion? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I moved it. I'll 3-14-05 88 1 accept the amendments. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll -- I'll also second 3 the amendments of striking the for clause. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: The "with cause" provision? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: With cause. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's not a deal 7 breaker? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I think we'll find out. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I wouldn't know why it 10 would be. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I do have a question, 12 Judge. We talk about the fee schedule in Exhibit A. I 13 don't see an Exhibit A. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Me either. I think one had 15 been presented -- 16 MS. HARRIS: Yes. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: -- previously. 18 MS. HARRIS: Yes, sir. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: It just didn't end up being 20 attached to this backup material. But one had been 21 presented earlier as a one-page -- 22 MS. HARRIS: Yes, sir. The Hill Country -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: That had various -- medication 24 management, and there were several other items on there. 25 MS. HARRIS: Yes. 3-14-05 89 1 JUDGE TINLEY: But the one that sticks in my 2 mind was the medication management. 3 MS. HARRIS: That was with M.H.M.R., Judge. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 5 MS. HARRIS: Yes. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I stand corrected. Thank you. 7 MS. HARRIS: Yes, that was M.H.M.R. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: These are fees for 9 services for counseling, essentially? 10 MS. HARRIS: Yes, sir. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Individual and/or 12 group sessions? 13 MS. HARRIS: Yes, sir. It's $45 an hour for 14 individual counseling, and $17.50 per resident in a group 15 setting. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I recall that now. 17 Thank you. 18 MS. HARRIS: Yes, sir. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: You okay with that, 20 Commissioner? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, thank you. Any further 23 questions or comments on the motion? All in favor of the 24 motion as amended, signify by raising your right hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 3-14-05 90 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We'll 4 move to the next item, being Item 12, authorization to use 5 vending machine proceeds to support cost of field trips for 6 residents with staff, resident clothing and hygiene 7 products, and other resident-related items. Ms. Harris 8 again. 9 MS. HARRIS: Upon running into Mr. Tomlinson 10 in the hall this morning, Mr. Tomlinson informed me that 11 there is a statute by which all revenues have to be 12 deposited into our account. In other words, this may not be 13 a viable thing, but it might be something that we might want 14 to discuss or talk about during our budget formation 15 processes, that we may want to add a line item for this. 16 What I'm trying to get at is, there are a lot of children 17 who are not going on furloughs. They're senior level, as I 18 had discussed before. Due to either parents don't want to 19 take them out, they don't want to participate in that 20 privilege, or they can't afford to come to Kerrville and do 21 that for their kids, so there are a lot of kids that don't 22 get to go out, and so staff volunteer their time and they 23 take the kids out, like, to bowling or just a walk in the 24 park or just some type of field trip, and if there's any 25 expenses, the staff is paying for that out of their pocket. 3-14-05 91 1 And so I was just trying to -- to formulate some type of a 2 way to kind of defer that cost so staff would not have to 3 pay for that, and that's just maybe something that we want 4 to discuss during budget time. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The Sheriff operates 6 a commissary of some sort out there, don't you, Sheriff? 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes, I do. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which is sort of a 9 different concept than what Ms. Harris is talking about. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah, hers is just 11 proceeds off of vending machines themselves, I believe. 12 MS. HARRIS: That's correct. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Commissary would be 14 totally different; it's set out by statute what I can use it 15 for. 16 MS. HARRIS: Right. And -- 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: County Auditor is 18 looking like he has something to say. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, you know, I mean, I 20 guess there's -- there could be some argument that -- that 21 these funds may not be, quote, county funds. I mean, 22 they're derived from users of vending machines. So, I mean, 23 my -- my statement to Becky was that if they are county 24 funds, they need to be deposited into the County treasury. 25 We ought to do that. I mean, that's what -- that's the 3-14-05 92 1 procedure we're using right now. Those vending machine 2 funds are -- have been and will continue to be deposited in 3 -- in the County treasury as long as we determine that they 4 are county funds. 5 MS. HARRIS: Right. 6 MR. TOMLINSON: And, I mean, we already have 7 a line item set up in the budget for -- for the purposes 8 enumerated in this -- in this agenda item, so I don't -- 9 we're into -- those funds are included in the revenues -- 10 MS. HARRIS: Mm-hmm. 11 MR. TOMLINSON: -- today. But they're not 12 specifically enumerated in -- in the revenue line items. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What you're saying is 14 that there is a -- in the current budget, as it was approved 15 by this Court, there's a line item that allows Ms. Harris to 16 reimburse employees that -- 17 MS. HARRIS: Right. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- spend any personal 19 money on this type of activity? 20 MS. HARRIS: Right. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: That's correct. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: That solves the problem. 24 MS. HARRIS: Right. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: It would seem. 3-14-05 93 1 MS. HARRIS: Mm-hmm. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, also, I think 3 the extension -- correct me if I'm wrong, but whatever -- 4 whatever goods are vended out of these machines also is 5 purchased by Kerr County; is that correct? 6 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't know. 7 MS. HARRIS: Yes, currently. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If that is the case, 9 then -- then the sales proceeds should go to Kerr County. 10 MR. TOMLINSON: Right. That's correct, yes. 11 MS. HARRIS: The majority of the sales is by 12 Kerr County staff that buy out of those vending machines, 13 yes, sir. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: No, the county -- 16 JUDGE TINLEY: This -- if you have budgeted 17 funds to pay -- or to reimburse your staff for these type 18 of -- of expenditures -- 19 MS. HARRIS: Right. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: -- that solves your problem. 21 MS. HARRIS: Right. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: So we don't need worry about 23 that. 24 MS. HARRIS: Right. Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Leave that alone. 3-14-05 94 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move on to Item 13, 2 then, consider and discuss hiring a juvenile detention 3 officer with eight years experience at a grade and step of 4 12-4 rather than an entrance level, 12-1. Ms. Harris? 5 MS. HARRIS: Yes, sir. This -- this 6 individual came to the facility, filled out an application, 7 and she has family members here in Kerrville, and she's 8 wanting to move to be closer to her family members. As a 9 matter of fact, she moved over the weekend; she's already in 10 Kerrville. And she knows that I was coming to Commissioners 11 Court this morning. She has other family members that are 12 in the process of moving to Kerrville, so they're all going 13 to be here together, so she has applied at the facility 14 because she wants to remain in juvenile corrections. She 15 has experience working with the juveniles in groups. She 16 worked two years on the chemical dependency dorm in the 17 T.Y.C. unit in San Saba. She also worked four years in the 18 orientation dorm, and then she worked two years on a 19 rotating basis in just the regular behavioral dorms at the 20 T.Y.C. unit in San Saba, so she does have extensive 21 experience. She is already certified in Handle With Care, 22 which is the physical restraint technique, and that is the 23 physical restraint technique that we use, that all of our 24 officers are certified in. She's already certified in that, 25 so she will not have to be trained this year, and that -- 3-14-05 95 1 'cause that's an annual recertification. She's already 2 CPR/first-aid certified, and abuse -- she's had training on 3 abuse and neglect. Most of the required training of the 40 4 hours of training that's required to be a juvenile detention 5 officer, she has had in order to get -- to be a certified 6 juvenile correction correctional officer. It's a matter of 7 transferring some of those training hours to Texas Juvenile 8 Probation Commission for approval to get her juvenile 9 detention officers certification. Now, she will have to 10 have some training that is specific for juvenile detention 11 officer certification, but it's not the full 40 hours, which 12 is going to save some savings on -- on training on her. 13 According to the present grade and step scale, our juvenile 14 detention officers, our beginning salary, they come in as a 15 12-1, which is $18,959. A person with eight years 16 experience on the present scale would be a 12-4, at $20,417. 17 Your entrance level for jailers is a 14-1. And this was 18 something else that has come up in the court about 19 equalizing pay scales, which comes in our next budget 20 process. So, I -- I broke it down to -- it would be an 21 increase in this salary, $851 over the next seven months. 22 She wouldn't begin her employment till the middle of this 23 month. And I broke down the 16 hours of training. That's, 24 with the Handle With Care and CPR amount, $9.81 an hour for 25 the prospective employees. There is a savings of $157. I'm 3-14-05 96 1 proposing that if -- if you approve this, that we transfer 2 the additional $851 from the Contract Services line item to 3 the Detention Officers line item in order to subsidize this 4 increase in salary, the $851 increase. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: 14- for a -- a jailer, what's 6 that entry level dollar amount? 7 MS. HARRIS: $26,036. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: To what? 9 MS. HARRIS: $26,036. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Is the Sheriff here? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, he's here. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I want to follow up 13 on that, and help us out here a little bit. If -- what are 14 the differences in the certification or licensing or 15 training or qualifications of the adult detention officer 16 versus a -- 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, compared to a lot 18 of hers, I'm not sure I know. The adult detention officer 19 has to now have 96 hours of training and actually pass -- 20 take and pass a state certification exam, and then they have 21 to actually work for one year before they get their basic 22 certificate. But in day-to-day job duties, you know, I 23 think even hers probably have to have a little bit more in 24 dealing with some of the counseling issues and some of the 25 kid issues. Personally, I think her staff members dealing 3-14-05 97 1 with juveniles and restrictions put on how she has to deal 2 with those are probably very equal and equivalent to what a 3 jailer does. We may have a little bit more violence to deal 4 with, but they have a lot of other issues that they have to 5 deal with that we don't that I would think would make it 6 pretty equal. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. If -- 8 Sheriff, if you hire a person who's otherwise qualified, but 9 doesn't have the training with certification, whatever, you 10 get -- get that training for them, that education after 11 they're hired? 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. You know, 13 everybody we hire starts out as a 1; you know, whatever it 14 is, 17-1 or 14-1, and within one year they have to be 15 certified through the State. So, they go through our own -- 16 about a 16-week training period. And currently, right now, 17 we are running a state certification course out there where 18 Bandera County and other -- Gillespie County has sent people 19 to it that need that certification, and they're taking that 20 while they're -- they're working, and then they take the 21 state exam. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Ms. Harris, would a 23 typical juvenile detention facility hire someone who wasn't 24 -- didn't possess the training and education, and then 25 develop that after they were hired? 3-14-05 98 1 MS. HARRIS: Yes. As a matter of fact, that 2 is -- 99 percent of our staff that's presently out there are 3 individuals that come that have no experience whatsoever, 4 and they have to go through the training process and the 5 certification process. They have absolutely no experience. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. If I -- if I 7 applied for work as a detention officer at the Sheriff's 8 Department and with the -- with your organization -- 9 MS. HARRIS: Mm-hmm. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- assuming neither 11 one of you practiced age discrimination, would it be more 12 difficult for me to get -- be hired by one organization 13 versus the other? 14 MS. HARRIS: As far as certification and 15 licensing, I would think it would be more difficult through 16 the Sheriff's Department than mine. Juvenile Detention 17 officers require 40 hours of training, and then they're 18 certified as detention officers. That certification is 19 renewed every two years, and within that two years you have 20 to get 80 hours of training. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay, ours require 96 22 hours within the first year; then they're certified. Now, 23 they're certified for life, except they also have to have 40 24 hours every two years of continuing education, and then 25 their mandated cultural diversity courses and that. I think 3-14-05 99 1 the biggest difference would probably be in -- in their job 2 duties, how many staff per -- what's a staff/inmate ratio 3 you have? 4 MS. HARRIS: During program hours, it's 5 1-to-8. During non-program hours, it's 1-to-12. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: See, and ours is 7 1-to-48, to where ours can be spread a little bit thinner in 8 dealing with more inmates at one time, and sometimes they're 9 more violent. But otherwise -- 10 MS. HARRIS: And his officer has to take a 11 state test. My officers do not. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thank you. 13 MS. HARRIS: For certification. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Both of you. That's 15 helpful. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This -- as you know, 17 Commissioner Williams and I are working on the -- the salary 18 issue with the juvenile facility, and that's -- that's a big 19 part of it, is comparing the employees with the adult and 20 juvenile facility. And -- and it's going to be difficult, 21 but you can rest assured that Number 2 and I will have -- 22 let's see, how can I put this nice? -- a debate over all 23 those issues. Some people may want to call it a fistfight. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Y'all are going to 25 be experts on this pretty soon. 3-14-05 100 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, yeah, absolutely. 2 Absolutely. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You and I are going 4 to have a fistfight? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, and I'm going to 6 win, so we might as well just -- (Laughter.) Might as well 7 just move forward here with what I want to do. But I see 8 where your questioning was, and it's a good question. But 9 the more I think about it, the more -- when I first started 10 looking at this thing, I thought, a cook is a cook. A 11 jailer is a jailer. Doesn't matter where. But I don't 12 think that way any more. My mind is moving over to -- to 13 where the juvenile facility is a whole different kind of 14 animal, and they're all -- all alone out there. So -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The comment about your 16 deliberations and fighting down at that end of the table, if 17 it's -- I like what we did at the Road and Bridge and with 18 the Sheriff's Department. You get a grade increase based on 19 certification. That you get -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Education. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- education and 22 certification, so the more you're certified to do. So, that 23 kind of eliminates these issues of having to raise people to 24 a -- if you have a certain certification, you come in at a 25 higher level, which I think is a proper way to do it. 3-14-05 101 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with you. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Your current JDO's, 3 how many are above the Step 1? 4 MS. HARRIS: I can get that for you. That 5 are above the Step 1? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, ma'am. 7 MS. HARRIS: Including shift supervisors? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure. 9 MS. HARRIS: 13. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 11 MS. HARRIS: Yes, sir. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And it's a reasonable 13 assumption that those 13 possess equal to -- or equal 14 qualifications to this one? Or this person has greater 15 qualifications or what? 16 MS. HARRIS: There is only one individual at 17 the facility that has the same number of years experience -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 19 MS. HARRIS: -- as this individual. There's 20 only one. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I got you. Thank 22 you. 23 MS. HARRIS: Yes, sir. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's see. My 25 question is going to be about dollars and cents. I'm sorry, 3-14-05 102 1 I can't remember where I saw that. I saw somewhere Mr. Hyde 2 is leaving. 3 MS. HARRIS: Yes, sir. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is this the person 5 that -- this is a different issue? 6 MS. HARRIS: Yes, sir. Yes, sir. I haven't 7 brought the other issue before the Court until I had an 8 opportunity to visit with you and Commissioner Williams. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Forgive me for 10 bringing that up. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: The one individual that -- 12 that has the degree of experience that this individual has 13 that you're proposing to bring on board, what -- what step 14 and grade is that individual? 15 MS. HARRIS: She is at a 12-6. And the 16 reason for -- and she should -- she should be a 12-4. She 17 is an individual that was there, and her salary at the time 18 that everyone was put on a pay grade and step, her salary at 19 that time put her in that step, that grade. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: She's currently a 12-6? 21 MS. HARRIS: Yes, sir. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any other questions for 23 Ms. Harris? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Waiting for a motion from 25 the -- 3-14-05 103 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would move that the 2 Court approve the hiring of a juvenile detention officer, as 3 per Ms. Harris' recommendation, with eight years experience, 4 to start at 12-4 equaling $20,417. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Do I hear a second? 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Hearing no second, motion will 8 die for lack of a second. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the reason I -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Do I hear a further motion? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a comment. I 12 think that the 12-4 is too high. I think you need to get 13 credit -- I make a motion to hire the person at a 12-3 -- 14 excuse me. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that a motion? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. Got me all checked 17 up, too. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion that the 19 individual -- Ms. Harris be authorized to hire the person as 20 a 12-3. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I note that there's 22 an automatic one-year longevity increase, you know, that's 23 automatic for all County employees. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Any 3-14-05 104 1 further question or discussion on the motion? All in favor 2 of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Thank 7 you, Ms. Harris. 8 MS. HARRIS: Thank you. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: The next item is Item 14, to 10 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to approve 11 the Airport Code, which includes rules and regulations and 12 minimum operating standards. Which one of you gentlemen 13 want to run with the ball at this point? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I'll just get 15 it on the -- get it on the floor here. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- well, I could 17 get it started just real quick. I don't think we need to 18 spend a lot of time on this right now. I think there's a 19 copy we can circulate around, a clean copy I think 20 Commissioner Williams has. I think we should just circulate 21 it through the various Commissioners; we can take action at 22 our next meeting. I don't think we need to take action, 23 certainly, now. It's an important document. It kind of -- 24 it is the governance document for the airport, and a lot of 25 time -- I'd like to, you know, thank Roger Bobertz and 3-14-05 105 1 Granger MacDonald for doing, you know, a huge amount of work 2 on this, as well as everyone on the Airport Board, but those 3 two did a -- really went through it with a fine-tooth comb, 4 and started with a document about nine months ago or longer 5 that was several inches thick, and they have reduced it down 6 to a pretty concise, pretty clean document, and just put it 7 out there. Hopefully there's not a whole lot of changes the 8 Court would have. City Council is also going to be looking 9 at the same document, and I hope -- you know, leave it at 10 that. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's fine. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: So, at this point, it's 13 just -- you're not -- 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We'll put it back on 15 next time. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I have a -- a kind of a 17 threshold question about it. I note that the document has 18 been adopted by the Airport Board. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: My question, I guess, is, as 21 long as it falls within the parameters of that Airport 22 Board's authority under the applicable chapter of the 23 Transportation Code, why does the Court or the Council need 24 to approve it? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Because I believe the 3-14-05 106 1 agreement is the Airport Board -- correct me if I'm wrong. 2 Ilse Bailey is here. The way the agreement is set up, the 3 Airport Board reserved this authority to the two governing 4 bodies, being the County and the City. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's correct. 6 That's my understanding. And any -- well, this just sets it 7 up, gets the operating documents really in place. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So it should be noted 9 that this agreement -- and, again, I'm going off memory, but 10 it's, I'm certain, on there that it never comes back to the 11 City Council and the Commissioners Court again; that the 12 Airport Board can amend it, modify it. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, that -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Isn't that -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: That's what prompted my 16 question. In Section 5.02, it says except in an emergency, 17 no airport rule, regulation, or airport M.O.S. established 18 by the operator, Airport Board, and approved by the owner... 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That -- I don't have my 20 copy in front of me, but I think -- Ilse, can you comment on 21 that? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 5.02, Judge? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. Page 47. 24 MS. BAILEY: It's a little difficult to 25 articulate this carefully enough so that it applies to both 3-14-05 107 1 situations. What -- what the board was -- the committee was 2 attempting to do is to put in the rules to articulate it 3 such that the Airport Board has the authority to amend its 4 rules as it goes along for operational purposes. Like -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Lease rates. 6 MS. BAILEY: Lease rates, if we decide to 7 institute parking regulations, that we don't have to come 8 back every time, because the whole purpose of the joint 9 agreement and this code is that now the airport can go and 10 operate without having to come on a detailed basis every 11 time. On the other hand, everyone acknowledges, I think, 12 that major substantive changes in the way things operate 13 really do need to come back to the owners, and so that's -- 14 that's the basis for -- and approved by the owners. If you 15 felt like that needed to be more clearly articulated, we 16 could add some language in there to state that, but that's 17 really the intention, is that it doesn't come back here 18 unless we're doing something really big. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: I think my concern is more 20 elementary than that. We established an Airport Board in 21 1970, to be given the powers of an airport board under the 22 Municipal Airport Act, and at some point along the way, the 23 City and the County deemed that board to be one with 24 advisory status only. Incorrectly, I think. Illegally, I 25 think. When we attempted to correct that problem by handing 3-14-05 108 1 back to the Airport Board the authority that it was given 2 under the law for the Municipal Airport Act under the 3 current legal authority, the -- the appropriate chapter of 4 the -- of the Transportation Code, it appears to me that 5 what we're doing is, they're acting in an advisory capacity 6 only again by proposing these rules, but to be effective, 7 the rules must be approved by the owners. Have we not gone 8 back to where -- 9 MS. BAILEY: No. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: -- we shouldn't have been 11 before, but were for 30 years? 12 MS. BAILEY: I'm not sure I completely agree 13 with that. I think -- to really be frank, I think that 14 what's really going on is that the owners and the board 15 members, owner and non-owner board members are all using an 16 abundance of caution to make sure that they're not perceived 17 by anyone at the outset as overstepping the desires of both 18 owners. But I think that that is not the same as making it 19 advisory. I think that it's very clear in the interlocal 20 agreements and the contracts that we've all entered into 21 that the -- the board has authority. But because it's a new 22 board, it's -- I think it's just trying to exercise that 23 authority with caution in order to make sure that it's 24 understanding and following the wishes of the owners, which 25 are the constituent entities. I don't really think it's 3-14-05 109 1 advisory at all, because, for instance, today it could go 2 out and lease every unleased portion of the airport 3 property, whether this body or the City Council likes it or 4 not. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the -- if -- I 6 mean, what you're saying, or -- well, two things. One, the 7 municipality or the airport Transportation Code provision 8 that we're currently operating under in the state law 9 allowed for -- or required an interlocal agreement to be put 10 together, and that -- that agreement is the one that says 11 this has to come back, as I understand. 12 MS. BAILEY: The Transportation Code does 13 require -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. So, I think, you 15 know, to -- you know, I think it's that interlocal agreement 16 that requires us to come back to these. And certain other 17 things, like the levying of a tax; there are certain things 18 that were reserved to the owners. Everything else was left 19 up to the -- to the Airport Board, and this is one of those 20 things that I thought was reserved for the owners. You 21 know, and I think it's really a -- I think this provision 22 could be modified, in my mind. I think it would be good, 23 probably, to modify this to the effect that this Airport 24 Board runs it now. This is a one-time shop for the entities 25 to get the direction right, since it's in the interlocal 3-14-05 110 1 agreement, but this is worded -- this is in agreement with 2 the interlocal agreement currently. 3 MS. BAILEY: Not only agreement, but the 4 Code. As I recall, looking at this, the Code requires the 5 owners to approve rules of operation like this. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What about -- 7 MS. BAILEY: 'Cause I had that very same 8 question when we started drafting it, and as I recall, I 9 went back and found that section. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What about the example 11 that you gave a few minutes ago about would the Board have 12 authority to rent out all the unused land on the airport. 13 Do they? 14 MS. BAILEY: Yes. We -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do they? 16 MS. BAILEY: The Board has the authority to 17 do everything except sell property, condemn property, -- 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Lease more than 40 years. 19 MS. BAILEY: -- lease for more than 40 years. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Levy any kind of a tax. 21 MS. BAILEY: Levy taxes. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: A few months ago, we 23 had talked to -- a few of us had talked about the 24 possibility of doing a program with the Air Force or 25 somebody. 3-14-05 111 1 MS. BAILEY: Mm-hmm. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And do -- would they 3 have the authority to do that without approval of the 4 Commissioners Court and City Council? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If it was a standard form 6 with no other criteria for leasing. If it was in a -- you 7 know, something that was tying some sort of a financial 8 commitment on the County, no. We would have -- 9 MS. BAILEY: That's why that's not a 10 particularly good example, because that involved not only 11 leasing, but part financial participation by entities, and 12 -- and a lot of -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 14 MS. BAILEY: -- kind of ancillary stuff that 15 would have required participation by the City Council and 16 the Commissioners Court. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: But you see where I'm coming 18 from? 19 MS. BAILEY: Yes. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: You indicated that when you 21 started this whole process, you had somewhat of that basic 22 question yourself. Is -- is the agreement which -- the 23 interlocal agreement which requires the approval of the two 24 governing bodies to approve these rules and regulations and 25 minimum operating standards, does that overstep state law? 3-14-05 112 1 MS. BAILEY: No, I believe that it -- it 2 follows directly from state law. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the point -- I 5 mean, that provision could be modified to probably give this 6 -- future authority or modifications or changes to the 7 Airport Board if The Court and the Council so chooses. I 8 think that we could do that. 9 MS. BAILEY: Yes. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that probably, I 11 mean, may or may not be a good idea. 12 MS. BAILEY: It's just trying to -- what 13 we're trying to do is find that appropriate balance, and 14 we're not going to find that really perfectly until we go 15 along. So, between operating autonomously so that the 16 Council and Commissioners Court don't have to micromanage, 17 and not being so autonomous that the owners are kind of 18 going, "What are they doing out there?" That's the balance 19 that we're trying to find, and I think this document finds 20 it pretty well. But I'm not saying that we won't go along 21 in the future and find some part of it that you might go, 22 well, we might -- we don't like that so much. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is it -- is it your 24 thought that future amendments to this Code can be enacted 25 by the Airport Board without coming back to the owners? 3-14-05 113 1 MS. BAILEY: I think that minor revisions 2 could be, but I think that, just as a policy matter, the -- 3 the owners need to be aware of and bless amendments to 4 rules. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The reason I ask the 6 question is because the language talks about the airport 7 rule and regulation or minimum operating standards 8 established. This is the document that establishes them. 9 MS. BAILEY: Yes. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And so we're taking 11 it to the two owners for ratification, in effect. 12 MS. BAILEY: Essentially, yes. Yes. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So my question, then, 14 again is, in the future, any tweaking that has to come about 15 as a result of operations changes, F.A.A. regulations 16 changing, anything that gets imposed on the Airport Board 17 that they have to deal with, do you believe it has to come 18 back or not? 19 MS. BAILEY: I think anything that's of any 20 substance ought to come back. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 23 MS. BAILEY: But minor things don't. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I like the function 25 that we're going through right now. I really like that. 3-14-05 114 1 It's accountability. It doesn't hurt anybody. It's not 2 micromanagement, but it's accountability of the taxpayers. 3 MS. BAILEY: And that's what -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we probably ought 5 to tighten up this language, make it a little bit clearer on 6 this one -- on this provision to say, you know, minor -- 7 clear that minor changes do not come back; substantive 8 changes do. And, you know -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And he used the word 10 "tweaking." Is tweaking -- is that minor or major? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: That's minor. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think I'd ask that 13 you point that -- 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's minor. A 15 tweak is minor. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- this issue up to the 17 City Council as well so that, you know, we can try to get 18 this done at one time. 19 MS. BAILEY: Well, and that would be just my 20 preference from a formality point of view, is that since the 21 Board has approved this, in order to get these in effect, my 22 preference would be that when you do consider it for 23 approval, that you approve it as-is, with direction to the 24 Board to make that modification, so that then we can have 25 the code in effect while we're going back and tweaking the 3-14-05 115 1 little things so that they can go on about carrying on their 2 business. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So -- so, make this -- 4 this is a minor change? 5 MS. BAILEY: Yes, that would be my 6 preference. And I know that the Airport Manager would 7 prefer that, because he's really concerned about making sure 8 that he has a set of rules so when someone comes to him and 9 says, "How do you do things out here at the airport?" This 10 way he can say, "Well, Rule Number 5.07 says that we do it 11 this way." 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I just want to make sure 13 that -- that we're not overstepping state law requirements 14 and doing something in contravention; that we've got an 15 Airport Board to oversee this thing and to -- and to ramrod 16 it, and to the extent under state law that they have that 17 obligation, that responsibility, I don't think the Council 18 or this Court ought to be -- ought to be managing what 19 they're doing. That's why they're there. 20 MS. BAILEY: One of the things I'll do before 21 the next meeting where you all consider this is provide you 22 with that analysis, because I remember going through it when 23 I was doing some of these revisions. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, I appreciate that. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, this will be on our 3-14-05 116 1 next agenda for approval? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Put it on the 28th. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Generally, I want to 4 weigh in with some opinions and observations about it. I 5 like what I see in this. It tells me that the Airport Board 6 is -- is assuming the responsibility, accountability, the 7 authority to manage the airport. I particularly like the 8 Section 1.23, the authority to act where it specifically 9 delegates to the -- the Airport Manager the -- the authority 10 to -- under the Board's direction, to run the airport. Can 11 I assume that -- that the Airport Manager then reports to 12 the Board and not to the City Manager? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's an interesting 14 question. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a safe 16 assumption. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the way to answer 18 that is that there's the -- and it's a confusing thing. The 19 Airport Board -- we work around this on almost a monthly 20 basis. But the issue really comes in -- the Airport Manager 21 -- the Airport Board contracts with the City, and then the 22 Airport Manager is part of that function, so it's a -- 23 almost a double line. 24 MS. BAILEY: And the City provides many 25 services pursuant to that contract, like my services as the 3-14-05 117 1 attorney, the Street Department, the Airport Manager, so 2 those people all report to the City Manager. But then the 3 City Manager and the City are beholden to the two owners as 4 -- as the contracting entity. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, in reality -- to 6 answer your question, in reality, the way it works -- and, 7 contractually, I think it has to be the way it was done. In 8 reality, the Airport Board is giving direction to the 9 Airport Manager directly, and if the airport -- if the City 10 Manager has a problem with that, then they come to the 11 Airport Board and it gets resolved at that level. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. In my 13 opinion, it's desirable that the services be provided 14 through the City, and it's desirable that the Airport 15 Manager be on the City payroll, 'cause he needs to be paid 16 somewhere. Just seems -- could be on the County payroll, I 17 suppose. But my point is, there isn't any value added by 18 having him report to the City Manager. That -- that 19 reporting relationship is not -- does not add any value to 20 the quality of the decision-making process. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If I understand your 22 point, Commissioner, I'd say no. And I think the reason 23 being that he's going to take his basic direction in terms 24 of how to manage from the Airport Board. They're going to 25 set that policy, and they're going to -- they're going to 3-14-05 118 1 expect that accountability for how that property is managed 2 and operating on a day-to-day basis. Now, if you come 3 crosswise with him about that, then the Airport Board, 4 through its president or delegation of Airport Board 5 members, will sit down with the City Manager and work that 6 out somehow, some way. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the reason there has 8 to be -- you know, I went round and round with this thing 9 when we were doing -- setting a lot of this up, there has to 10 be one person that we contract with who is responsible, and 11 that person has to be the City Manager, really. And the 12 reason is because there's lots of others; there's 13 engineering function out there, there's sewer function, 14 there's airport planning, there's accounting. There's lots 15 of other functions that a little bit of their time gets 16 billed into the overall budget, and it doesn't work real 17 well to have -- you know, for us to have to work with, you 18 know, the City Attorney's office and the City Engineering 19 office and all that, so we just have the City Manager as the 20 lead point person. But, in reality, if we have a problem 21 with any part of that, the Airport Board will talk to the 22 City Manager to resolve it. We don't talk to the Airport 23 Manager to resolve it, but the -- in a working relationship, 24 the Airport Manager works very closely with the Airport 25 Board. I mean, the City Manager never comes to our board 3-14-05 119 1 meetings -- I won't say never. Rarely. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He's been there once 3 or twice, but on several invitations or unique presentations 4 or something. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But if we have an issue 6 with -- with the Airport Manager not doing his job properly, 7 and then we go to the City Manager and get that problem 8 resolved, and that hasn't happened, Bill would suggest a -- 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For administrative 10 services. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's 12 administrative service; that's fine. But the decision 13 process about how to administer and implement these rules, 14 there should not be any involvement in. The second one was, 15 I'm glad we're going to have a delay on this. I cannot -- 16 not being an aviator or owner of an aircraft, I can read 17 these and can't make a determination about whether they 18 represent the minimum amount of government necessary to 19 operate a good facility. My -- and I do -- I am aware that 20 we have aviators and plane owners on the board, so I've got 21 some level of confidence that there's a good balance between 22 regulation needed and the flexibility that owners and 23 aviators need. But it does also seem that it would be good 24 that -- to have some opportunity for -- for aircraft owners 25 and pilots to -- to, if there's any objection to anything, 3-14-05 120 1 have an opportunity to do that before we -- before we rule 2 on it. 3 MS. BAILEY: Commissioner -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This process has been 5 very open, and this document has been in front of Kerrville 6 Aviation; is on their counter. I think most people that use 7 the airport on a regular basis are familiar with where this 8 is. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And they, for the 10 most part, were in attendance at all the Airport Board 11 meetings -- most of them. And so what -- what has happened 12 in the formulation of this document was involving aviators, 13 aircraft owners, business operators out there and so forth 14 and so on, keeping this in compliance with TexDOT Aviation, 15 F.A.A. and all those things that -- governance over which we 16 have no control. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You don't really 18 expect a room full of pilots in here in about a month -- 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't think so. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- hollering 21 about -- you can't tell that? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They've already been at 23 the other meetings. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In fact, at our last 3-14-05 121 1 meeting -- 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'll take your word 3 for it. 4 MS. BAILEY: There's one major tenant that we 5 spent half the meeting addressing and responding to some of 6 his very good suggestions and concerns, so we've -- 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's good. 8 MS. BAILEY: -- had this out to the airport 9 community. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thank you. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other discussion on this 12 item? Thank you very much, Ms. Bailey. Are there any items 13 to be covered in closed or executive session? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, we'll move on. The 16 approval agenda. Mr. Auditor, guess we're ready for you. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got one question 18 on the bills. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Under Commissioners 21 Court, the insurance consulting fee. Is that paid in full 22 up -- up through today? Or is this -- I can't remember how 23 much. 24 MR. TOMLINSON: That's through March of '05. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. So we're paid 3-14-05 122 1 up with that guy. All right, good. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: For now. I think his contract 4 calls for a total of, I think, 12,5. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right, I remember 6 that. But I was going to gauge that to see, in fact, if I 7 could tell how much work he had done for us. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You mentioned insurance, 9 and I don't know -- someone told me that we have a problem 10 somewhere. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, don't go there, 12 Jon. This is before lunch. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Don't go there right 14 now, unless you got another hour and a half you want to 15 talk. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. At our next 17 meeting, we can talk about our insurance problem. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, indeed. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Health insurance? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I've run up a big 23 bill lately; that might be a problem. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move we pay the 25 bills. 3-14-05 123 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 3 payment of the bills. Any question or discussion? All in 4 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 9 Budget Amendment Request Number 1. 10 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. Number 1 is for the 11 County Attorney. Request is to transfer $10,000 from 12 Assistants line item for -- $9,500 to Attorney's Fees and 13 $500 to Conferences. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 18 approval of Budget Amendment Request Number 1. Any question 19 or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 20 raising your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Budget 25 Amendment Request Number 2. 3-14-05 124 1 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 2 is -- is for the 2 jail. I have -- I have a bill for $4,860 for -- it's for 3 bar code scanners for jail operations. In '02-'03 -- I mean 4 in '03-'04, we received funds called a SCAAP grant, and it's 5 a federal -- federal moneys that reimburse us for -- for 6 housing aliens in our jail. At the end of '03-'04, we had 7 $2,474.23 unexpended. However, we did not budget that 8 unexpended amount for '04-'05. So, my -- my request here is 9 to increase the budget for the amount of the unexpended 10 grant funds, plus transfer $2,386.74 from Jailers Salaries 11 to make this payment. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Those -- the $2,474.23 13 portion, that -- did it just go back into the General Fund? 14 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes, it did. But we didn't 15 -- we didn't -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Was it designated for one 17 purpose only? 18 MR. TOMLINSON: It was -- it was designated 19 for -- for reimbursement of expenses. It could be anything 20 for -- for operation of the jail. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But -- okay. But, I 22 mean, I guess what I'm asking, if we don't use it on 23 something like this, we have to send it back to the 24 government, whoever gave us the grant, correct? We have to 25 use these grant funds? 3-14-05 125 1 MR. TOMLINSON: We need beds for these 2 purposes, so we have to somehow get it out of the -- we need 3 to use it up, and to do it, we need to increase the budget. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For this purpose or 5 something like this? 6 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move approval -- 8 declare an emergency and move approval of the budget 9 amendment. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to 12 declare an emergency and approve the Budget Amendment 13 Request Number 2. Any question or discussion? All in favor 14 of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 19 Budget Amendment Request Number 3. 20 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 3 is for the -- for 21 County Court at Law and 216th District Court. We -- we've 22 depleted the funds in the budget for -- for master court 23 appointments for child protective cases. And I -- I spoke 24 to the District Judge for the 216th, and he agreed to 25 transfer -- let us transfer $5,000 from Special Trials in 3-14-05 126 1 the district -- 216th court to Master Court Appointments for 2 the County Court at Law. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, Special Trials 4 money is money we budgeted for capital murder cases? 5 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's probably okay 7 to do this. I don't know, but it -- there's, I think -- 8 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, there's -- we -- the 9 only -- the only thing for sure that we'll see this year is 10 the competency trial for Seard, and the Sheriff tells me 11 that that'll probably be in the next 60 days. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I remember our 13 budget discussions, though, we when we said this is a hard 14 one to swallow, but we're going to have to budget a big 15 amount of money for that, and maybe we'll get it back. And 16 there's probably a tendency to start using that as a slush 17 fund, and we -- we ought to have the discipline to avoid 18 that. I'm preaching to the choir. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with you. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, at the same time, 21 there's -- the other option would be to declare an emergency 22 and increase the budget. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I move to approve. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 3-14-05 127 1 approval of Budget Amendment Request Number 3. Any question 2 or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 3 raising your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 8 Budget Amendment Request Number 4. 9 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 4 is for Road and 10 Bridge, and they are requesting a transfer of $321 from 11 Contract Fees to Vehicle Insurance, and it's for the 12 addition of the -- the two Gradalls. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move to approve. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 17 approval of Budget Amendment Request Number 4. Any question 18 or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 19 raising your right hand. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Budget 24 Amendment Request Number 5. 25 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 5 is for Justice of 3-14-05 128 1 the Peace, Precinct 3. His request is to transfer $795.68 2 from Software Maintenance to Conferences. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I see the judge in 4 the audience. Is this because of -- basically to get the 5 initial training to get up as a -- coming in as a new 6 justice? 7 MR. CASTILLO: It's 'cause it took too many 8 school hours for me to go to school. They had budgeted just 9 enough for 20 hours 'cause Kari was here, and I had to go to 10 80 hours of schooling. We depleted it. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 14 approval of Budget Amendment Request Number 5. Any question 15 or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 16 raising your right hand. 17 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 19 (No response.) 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge Castillo, where 21 are you going to school? 22 MR. CASTILLO: Austin D.P.S. This one is 23 grant writing school, and I thought -- I elected to go the 24 D.P.S. school, 'cause I think they will understand what -- 25 what we want. 3-14-05 129 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 2 MR. CASTILLO: In chasing our fines that are 3 not paid. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. Be careful in 5 Austin. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Budget Amendment Request 8 Number 6. 9 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 6 is for the Auditor's 10 office. I'm requesting a transfer of $92.50 from Part-Time 11 Salary to Bonds. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You can't run your 13 budget any better than that? 14 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, I forgot -- 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm kidding, Tommy. 16 MR. TOMLINSON: I forgot that my appointment 17 was up this May. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 21 approval of Budget Amendment Request Number 6. Any question 22 or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 23 raising your right hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 3-14-05 130 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Budget 3 Amendment Request Number 7. 4 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 7 is for the 5 Commissioners Court. We need to transfer $1,254 from Survey 6 Services to the Copier Lease line item to -- this -- this 7 finishes out '04-'05. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Apparently when we -- when I 9 put the budget together, I put together a six-month budget 10 for the copier instead of a 12-month. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So it's your fault, 12 huh? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: I'll take -- you know -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: -- lay it right here at my 16 feet. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Glad to hear it's 18 your fault, not Ms. Mitchell's. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for approval. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 22 approval of Budget Amendment Number 7. Any question or 23 comments? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Brief comment. There is 25 some survey work that's underway in my precinct, and 3-14-05 131 1 hopefully some of that is going to be picked up by some 2 private landowners. Not the Hermann Sons; it's on Lane 3 Valley Road, realignment and all that stuff over there. 4 Anyway, so there may be some -- it'll hopefully be below the 5 amount. We're trying to correct something that wasn't done 6 in 1992. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or 8 comments? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 9 your right hand. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Do we 14 have any late bills? 15 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tommy, don't run off. 17 I got a question for you here. 18 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And just then you said 20 you'd forgotten your appointment was this year, and I have 21 too. I'm interested in that; I'm just curious about it. Do 22 the District Judges appoint you as the Auditor, or a 23 District Judge? Who does that? 24 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, the district -- the 25 216th. 3-14-05 132 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 216th Judge appoints 2 you as the County Auditor. Do they do that in a public 3 forum, or does he just sign some order? 4 MR. TOMLINSON: He signs an order. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 6 MR. TOMLINSON: They have a public hearing 7 on -- on my salary. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But no public hearing 9 on the appointment? 10 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Where's the 12 public hearing on your salary going to be? 13 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, he changes it from 14 county to county. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 16 MR. TOMLINSON: He does it all at one time 17 for all four counties, so -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: -- wherever he decides. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just remember -- I'm 21 not fussing or anything like that. I just remember reading 22 that one time, and I was curious how it worked. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: That's the way it works. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: He may be thinking 3-14-05 133 1 about applying for that job. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I have before me monthly 5 reports submitted by the Sheriff; Justice of the Peace, 6 Precinct 2; County Clerk; Justice of the Peace, Precinct 3; 7 Justice of the Peace, Precinct 4; and Justice -- and 8 District Clerk. Do I hear a motion that these reports be 9 approved as submitted? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The second came out 13 just before the move. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I tell you, you've got 15 to -- 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They're both there. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- got to wake up, 18 man. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But there's one missing 20 from -- the Juvenile Detention Facility also submitted one. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, it was in here 22 this morning. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Her report's in, 24 'cause I read it. 25 MR. EMERSON: So's the County Attorney's. 3-14-05 134 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So is the County 2 Attorney's. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: County Attorney's 4 report is in here. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: You want to add that to the 6 motion? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion to include the Juvenile 9 Detention Facility and County Attorney's office. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And we need to make sure 11 copies of that get into the Clerk's -- cause she's the one 12 that -- and I gave her mine -- one of them. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Any question or discussion? 14 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 15 hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Don't 20 have any transcripts before me. Do we have any report from 21 any of the Commissioners in connection with their various 22 liaison assignments? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have one. It's sort of 24 a liaison assignment. Anyone that has nothing to do 25 Thursday or wants to learn more about water on Thursday, 3-14-05 135 1 Region J is meeting in Bandera at the Flying J -- Flying F. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Flying F. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Flying F. That's right, 4 the Flying J is a truck stop. Flying F Guest Ranch. Also 5 have a good lunch there, which we will not be paying for 6 unless you're a member, but you're welcome to attend. We're 7 getting near the end of this planning cycle, and I have 8 received word from Austin that there is a Senate Bill 3 in 9 the works, which will be the water bill under this session, 10 and it appears the same process for water planning is going 11 to continue with quite a few changes, adjustments, other 12 things going through the Legislature right now. Some good, 13 some bad. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Have you read the 15 bill? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, I have not. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What time is that 18 meeting? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 10 o'clock. It'll 20 probably last till about 2:00 or 3 o'clock. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other reports? Elected 22 officials, any reports? Department heads? Hearing no 23 further business, I'll -- 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I want to report 25 about Animal Control. 3-14-05 136 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Real quickly. All 3 of you are aware that back on February the 2nd, there was a 4 case where a Kerrvillian had 12 dogs and 22 cats in his 5 house. Animal Control was called out to assist with that 6 problem, and we got one through all of it. Our Animal 7 Control group brought it to a very successful conclusion, 8 one that pleased everybody, including the pet owner. The 9 end result was that he brought four of his pets up to code 10 and surrendered the rest of them. As of a few days ago, we 11 had 10 of those others adopted, which is a pretty good 12 ratio. I don't know about the rest of them, whether or not 13 they were adopted. We got a lot of good press on that, 14 including San Antonio Fox News; heard it on the TV down 15 there. All of you are aware of what a big issue animal 16 control is down there, so they were sort of seeming to be 17 saying, "Here's the way another county does it better than 18 we do." I'm not going to start using this as a mark of 19 success, but PETA, People for Ethical Treatment of Animals, 20 heard that report and sent an e-mail to our shop 21 congratulating our Animal Control group on the way it was 22 handled. And then there was another anonymous report of -- 23 of animal abuse on a grand scale, and -- it was reported to 24 PETA, and PETA sent the information on to our Animal Control 25 group, who did a very thorough investigation. Found no 3-14-05 137 1 abuse, by the way, and, again, we got kudos from PETA for -- 2 for our handling of that situation. So, that -- we hear a 3 lot of grievances, a lot of complaining and gripes, but once 4 in a while, we also hear something good that happens. 5 That's all. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To have PETA on your side 7 on this issue says a lot. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm not sure how -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It says a lot. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything further? We will 11 stand adjourned. 12 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 12:01 p.m.) 13 - - - - - - - - - - 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3-14-05 138 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 5 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 6 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 7 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 21st day of March, 8 2005. 9 10 11 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 12 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 13 Certified Shorthand Reporter 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3-14-05