1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Regular Session 10 Monday, April 11, 2005 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 DAVE NICHOLSON, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X April 11, 2005 2 PAGE --- Visitors' Input 5 3 --- Commissioners' Comments 11 4 1.1 Purchase of land owned by the Hill Country Juvenile Detention Facility Corp. 26 5 1.2 Request permission to display children's art 6 project in lobby of courthouse week of Apr. 18 34 7 1.3 Proclamation declaring April 24 - May 1, 2005 Soil and Water Stewardship Week in Kerr County 36 8 1.4 Discus authority for Clerk to attest to accuracy 9 of Commissioners Court Records 36 10 1.5 Final Plat of Audubon Place, Precinct 4 40 11 1.6 Concept Plan for development of 14.76 acres on Hwy. 27 & JJ Lane, Precinct 2 41 12 1.9 Consider funding for First Responder education 13 via Internet 68 14 1.7 Declare April 23, 2005 as Earth Day in Kerr County 77 15 1.8 Consider appointing Ambra Freeman and Pam Peter to Kerr County Child Welfare Board 78 16 1.10 Discuss moving J.P. 4's office 79 17 1.11 Discussion of Hart Intercivic eSlate Electronic 18 Voting System 90 19 1.12 Consider approval of contract for medical health services at Juvenile Detention Facility 94 20 1.13 Consider rescinding Court Order 25722 and approving 21 new court order for agenda request rules for Commissioners Court 102 22 1.14 Consider Commissioners Court organizational chart 104 23 1.15 Discuss automobile insurance requirements for all 24 County employees that use personal vehicles 112 25 1.16 Discuss Subdivision Rules and Regulations 121 3 1 I N D E X (Continued) April 11, 2005 2 PAGE 3 1.17 Discuss Water Availability Requirements 130 4 1.18 Consider status of Juvenile Board's internal investigation of Kerr County Juvenile Detention 5 Facility 138 6 1.19 Consider reappointing Commissioner Letz for two-year term on Joint Airport Board effective 7 June 1, 2005 144 8 1.22 Public Hearing on proposed Kerr County Nuisance Abatement Program 145 9 1.20 Consider employment status of Manager of Rabies 10 and Animal Control Department 175 11 1.21 Discuss remodeling to allow access to windows currently located in exterior wall adjacent to 12 the County Attorney's office 181 13 4.1 Pay Bills 185 4.2 Budget Amendments 186 14 4.3 Late Bills --- 4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 202 15 5.1 Reports from Commissioners/Liaison Committee 16 Assignments 203 17 --- Adjourned 210 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 4 1 On Monday, April 11, 2005, at 9:00 a.m., a regular 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in the 3 Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville, 4 Texas, and the following proceedings were had in open court: 5 P R O C E E D I N G S 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, ladies and 7 gentlemen. Let me call to order this regularly scheduled 8 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court posted for 9 this time and date, Monday, April the 11th, 2005, at 9 a.m. 10 It's that time now. Commissioner Williams, I believe you 11 have the honors this morning. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Will you please rise 13 and join me in a moment of prayer followed by the pledge of 14 allegiance? 15 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. At this time, if 17 there's any member of the public that wishes to be heard on 18 a matter which is not a listed agenda item, you're 19 privileged to come forward at this time. If you want to be 20 heard on an agenda item, we would ask that you wait until 21 that item is called, and we'd also ask that you fill out a 22 participation form at the back of the room. It's not 23 essential. It helps me to make sure that I don't miss you, 24 so that's why we ask you to do it. But if you want to be 25 heard on an agenda item, please get my attention, if you've 4-11-05 5 1 not filled out a participation form, when that item is 2 called. But at this time, if there's any member of the 3 public or the audience that wishes to be heard on a matter 4 that's not a listed agenda item, feel privileged to come 5 forward at this time. We'll be happy to listen to you. 6 Yes, sir? If you'd come forward and give your name and 7 address. 8 MR. HENDERSON: This is for you, Judge. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All right, thank you. 10 MR. HENDERSON: If you'll hand those out. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Appreciate it. 12 MR. HENDERSON: I'm Aubrey Henderson, 4035 13 Junction Highway, Ingram, Texas. First I'd like to ask 14 about -- and I guess Mr. Williams -- the status on the 15 committee that we had talked about two weeks ago. If you 16 could give me any advice towards that, how we are -- 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Henderson, let me 18 interject, if I might. 19 MR. HENDERSON: Okay. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: On this particular portion of 21 the agenda, we -- we're happy to listen to anything you have 22 to say, but because it's not a listed agenda item, the Court 23 can listen, but it cannot interact -- 24 MR. HENDERSON: Okay, that's fine. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: -- or pursue anything or take 4-11-05 6 1 any action. 2 MR. HENDERSON: Okay. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: I hope you understand that. 4 MR. HENDERSON: Okay, that's fine. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, can I make a 6 comment, just -- 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, sir. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- to you real quickly? 9 I'll be glad to make a status report during my comments in a 10 few moments on the committee. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 12 MR. HENDERSON: Okay. The -- what I just 13 handed you is from the County Auditor, and I'll just talk 14 briefly about this. My concerns were -- this is the last 11 15 years, I believe the latest from the County Auditor, the 16 money that we have -- we have revenues and disbursements. 17 You've seen these figures before. It has a ditch out to the 18 side, which is this deficit. I think we all understand, 19 Judge, that that is a deficit. You only have through '03, 20 but I went to the County Auditor's. We are now up to 21 1,550,000. Of course, the figure that you're looking at 22 right there is just through '03, is 1,302,000, roughly. And 23 I am not here to discuss this, but I would just like the 24 Court to know that if it would be possible for a workshop or 25 a meeting where we don't have to be interrupted with other 4-11-05 7 1 court business, there's a possibility that we could have a 2 forum meeting -- open forum or a workshop after hours in the 3 courthouse, upstairs or here. I would appreciate if y'all 4 would discuss that, and -- in a couple weeks, and come back, 5 and maybe you'll have an answer for me about where we could 6 go and the direction, and discuss this and many other 7 matters that have to do with that. That's all I have, 8 Judge, today to talk about. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. We appreciate you 10 being here today, Mr. Henderson. Is there any other member 11 of the public or audience -- please step forward. Give your 12 name and address to the reporter, please. 13 MS. HAWKINS: Teri Hawkins, P.O. Box 911, 14 Ingram, Texas. I know that it's not on the agenda, but I 15 had submitted some questions in writing at the last 16 Commissioners Court, and I didn't know if y'all had a chance 17 to respond to any of those. Okay, I guess that's no. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Looks like we're one 19 short. 20 MS. HAWKINS: One short? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We can make a copy. 22 MS. HAWKINS: Here we go; I have a spare. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Commissioner Baldwin. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 25 MS. HAWKINS: And I'm just, again, following 4-11-05 8 1 up, 'cause one of the questions was what discussion, if any, 2 has the Commissioners had in reference to leasing of the 3 County's outdoor arena? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Would you repeat the 5 question, please? 6 MS. HAWKINS: One of my questions that I had 7 submitted back on Monday, March the 28th, I just was 8 wondering if there's been any further discussion from the 9 Commissioners in reference to leasing the County's outdoor 10 arena. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: There hasn't been any -- any 12 meeting posted to consider any item except this particular 13 meeting, and it's not on this agenda, I think. 14 MS. HAWKINS: Okay. That was just one of the 15 questions I had asked, because we were trying to get the 16 outdoor facility. I was reading the minutes and stuff from 17 the last Commissioners Court, and on March the 28th of 2005, 18 Mr. Walston stated that he felt that the multiple leasing of 19 the outdoor facility for multiple events during the year 20 would conflict with some of the possibilities of scheduling 21 dates for the kids. So, at that time, which is the date of 22 his letter -- which was March the 25th, which, of course, 23 was after I was already told that we could lease the outdoor 24 arena on March the 1st -- they decided it would be best if 25 we just did not lease it outside of the 4-H use. And I 4-11-05 9 1 didn't know if the community was aware that for every 2 outdoor date the 4-H has for a rodeo, they have the indoor 3 facility booked as a backup arena for them, thus tying up 4 both facilities on the same date. So I was wondering, why 5 couldn't the 4-H just plan on using the indoor arena for 6 their scheduled events and let the public that wants to 7 lease the outdoor facility take their chances with the 8 weather? 9 Mr. Walston also stated that the facility was 10 built for 4-H leaders -- was built by 4-H leaders and 11 volunteers, and it was his impression that it was a 4-H 12 facility for them to use as they felt necessary. In 13 response to Mr. Walston's reference to the facility being 14 here today, for the record, I was a 4-H youth member. Along 15 with my mom and my dad and a lot of my friends, they were 16 also in the club, and their parents as well, and we worked 17 and we donated, volunteered, and, of course, we benefited 18 from those facilities. I was told by the 4-H Coordinator on 19 March the 15th that we could not volunteer our time or 20 equipment at the 4-H outdoor arena to paint their concession 21 stand or weld one of the bucking chute gates back on that 22 was broken when the county fair had their event back in 23 October of '04, or do any other repairs for them that was 24 needed before they started their summer series of 25 invitational rodeos. 4-11-05 10 1 I only mention this because I keep hearing 2 over and over that these facilities were built, maintained, 3 and the general upkeep is from volunteers, adult leaders, 4 and donations. So, y'all excuse my aggravation at being 5 told that we could not volunteer time or equipment or do 6 anything for the 4-H kids because they had to do it 7 themselves. Remember, I was one of those 4-H kids, and I'll 8 always be one no matter what my age is. Mr. Holekamp made 9 the comment at the last Commissioners Court that they needed 10 commitment from the Court to fund the employees, what it 11 takes to change over one event to another overnight. It 12 just doesn't happen. He said if we had a group of people 13 that are willing to put self-interest aside and try to come 14 up with a policy that is fair to the youth primarily, and 15 then the citizens' groups and other organizations. 16 I have for your review a breakdown, which is 17 what I gave y'all. I received from the Hill Country Youth 18 Exhibition Center reservation receipts. Please note that we 19 hardly ever charge for a setup fee. Yet when we inquired 20 about the indoor arena and the possibility of leasing it on 21 a Friday, before a scheduled Saturday event, we were told 22 that no one could lease the facility because it took them 23 all day to prepare the arena ground using the tractor to 24 plow and water and the process to work it just right for 25 each event, be it barrel racers, team ropers, or cutters. 4-11-05 11 1 The arena had to be prepared just right depending on that 2 event. I do understand this, and appreciate Mr. Holekamp 3 and his manpower, making sure that this is done properly. 4 Judge Tinley asked Mr. Holekamp, do we have a setup fee? 5 And Mr. Holekamp said yes. My question is, why do we not 6 consider this process as a facility setup? Even though the 7 arena is up, we are still having a county tractor, water, 8 and manpower that is working a full day before an event to 9 prepare it, thus locking out another income-producing date 10 and costing taxpayers in equipment, time, and man labor. 11 I've reviewed the receipts, and only a selected few are 12 charged a setup fee. I am saying this because I believe 13 that this should be an immediate policy change. Once the 14 county tractor or any equipment is started or used, even if 15 it's a water hose to spray to keep the dust down, there 16 should be an automatic setup fee charged to all 17 income-producing venues each and every time. And I thank 18 y'all for your time. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. Is there 20 any other member of the public that wishes to be heard on 21 any matter that's not a listed agenda item? If so, please 22 come forward at this time, and feel free to give us your 23 comments. Seeing no one else coming forward, we'll move on 24 in the agenda. Commissioner Williams, what do you have for 25 us this morning? 4-11-05 12 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll reserve any 2 comments I have to coincide with Commissioner Letz on this 3 topic, and let him deal with it. Presumably, he's speaking 4 for both of us, I'm certain. I just wanted to call to the 5 attention of the Court and the public that the first of two 6 consecutive advertisements and invitation for bids for 7 construction for Phases 2 and 3 of the Kerrville South 8 Wastewater Project were published. We anticipate again this 9 weekend, this particular ad will appear one more time. 10 We'll have a preconstruction conference here in the 11 courthouse on April 22nd, and we anticipate receiving and 12 opening bids on, I believe, the 25th. Is that right, 13 Ms. Mitchell? 14 (Ms. Mitchell nodded.) 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: On the 25th, so we're 16 moving forward with that. Part of the delay has been that 17 the lift station had to be moved and redesigned, but now 18 we're ready to kind of rock and roll. And these two phases 19 of the -- of the project will take in all of Loyal Valley, 20 George Muck, and there's another street in there in that 21 particular area, and a couple hundred homes will go off of 22 septics when this is finished and onto a centralized sewer 23 system. So, we're pleased that this is moving along. 24 Anticipate getting that construction underway in May. 25 That's all I have, Judge. 4-11-05 13 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Commissioner Letz? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: First, let me make a 3 brief comment regarding the airport. I think everyone on 4 the Court's aware of -- and probably most of the public, 5 about a terminal that was in the budget to be built, and 6 it's been kind of delayed a little bit. As I understand it, 7 that will be before TexDOT's board, national -- state board 8 the end of this month, and once that happens -- it's been 9 held up trying to get on their agenda to approve the 10 funding. Once that happens, which is anticipated -- I think 11 it's April 30th, towards the end of the month. In May, that 12 should go out for bid, and so that should start sometime in 13 the next couple months. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And TexDOT will 15 manage that process of bids -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- and so forth? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. But I just wanted 19 to update everyone on the Court that that is working. It's 20 just been held up in Austin. Related to the Ag Barn issue, 21 an update as to what Commissioner Williams and I have 22 decided with regards to committee and where we are on it, 23 there are a lot of issues out there that are kind of, you 24 know, not open for discussion, so to speak, such as the -- 25 the Stock Show Association. They have their dates. There 4-11-05 14 1 are 4-H issues. There are nonprofit issues that we've dealt 2 with in this court before. We are relooking at a -- and 3 it's a huge undertaking to look at everything from the 4 policy to who's using it at what rates, what the rates 5 should be, gather information from other facilities. And, 6 in our mind, it was not productive just to call a meeting 7 and just basically have what I think would turn out to be a 8 bitch session about what was wrong out there. 9 What we decided to do, and are doing, we've 10 met with Roy Walston and Glenn Holekamp. We're reviewing 11 all the current policies and rules, and we are looking at 12 other facilities. And we are in the process of drafting 13 draft policies, costs, and everything else. Once that is 14 done -- which I would anticipate within the next, you know, 15 two to four weeks; it's not an easy undertaking -- everyone 16 who has given us their name, they'd like to help in this 17 process, will be given that draft and will be -- and we'll 18 solicit comments. We'll probably send the draft out, then 19 have a meeting, will be our guess, with anyone that wants to 20 show up and give us any comments, or they can respond in 21 writing. Because of the interest, we felt that we wanted -- 22 we didn't want really to limit it to a -- a select few of 23 those that wanted to contribute. And by sending out a draft 24 to everyone and then have it open to the public as a whole, 25 I think we get more input from a wider spectrum. So, that's 4-11-05 15 1 where it is. I mean, this is a -- you know, we met last 2 week, and we'll probably meet again this week, I would 3 suspect, on some other -- at least Commissioner Williams and 4 I will on this topic. That's where it's going, you know. 5 We are proceeding. Everyone that requested input will be 6 receiving a draft before it comes back to the court, and 7 that's where we are. Anything else to add? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, that covers it. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything further? 10 Commissioner Nicholson? 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Last Thursday we had 12 the dedication of the hister -- historical -- almost said 13 the wrong word. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Faux pas, 15 Mr. Nicholson? 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- marker in Hunt 17 celebrating the founding of Hunt, and that was sponsored by 18 the Hunt Garden Club in participation with the Historical 19 Society, and had a real good turnout with -- with music from 20 the children at the -- at the Hunt School, so that was good. 21 And, Commissioner Williams, the -- the Baylor women's 22 basketball team did play since we last met, didn't they? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sick 'em, Bears. 24 National champs. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And on the -- on to 4-11-05 16 1 you, Commissioner, I hope Jesse's healing up. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, sir. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Baldwin? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. Thank you. 5 I wanted to report to the Court and the public that I'd 6 gotten a call over the weekend; Brad Alford is in the 7 hospital in Fredericksburg. I think I'm safe to say heart 8 problems. Don't know how serious. Don't know -- I checked 9 on him this morning, and still don't know anything, but he's 10 a pretty sick little boy. There is a public hearing today 11 at 2 o'clock in Austin, Texas, on the issue -- Hilderbran's 12 introduced a bill requiring -- you know, particularly with 13 our water issue, our utility issue that we've been dealing 14 with for a couple of years around here, they -- companies 15 can -- now can increase their rates every year if they so 16 choose. And this bill that Harvey's introduced is -- would 17 require them to only increase or apply for an increase every 18 five years. So that is -- that's a positive -- large 19 positive step. And it just kills me that I can't go to 20 Austin, Texas today, in all the traffic and all the people, 21 and testify at 2 o'clock. But if you -- any of you 22 gentlemen would like to go, I just wanted to alert you to 23 that exciting moment going on over there. 24 Last, but certainly not least, this -- this 25 issue between the Commissioners Court and the Kerrville City 4-11-05 17 1 Council, the co-owned properties and budget issues, this -- 2 the ambulance service and the library and all of those 3 things that we do with them, and for years have worked 4 fairly well with them and sharing in the cost of those 5 issues, I see -- we've tried; we sent a letter to them 6 saying it's time to sit down and start working through it. 7 And they have sent us a letter back now saying that -- that 8 they would rather not; that they would rather sit down and 9 work out what the process is going to be. And that's fine. 10 I'll sit with them all day long and work out processes and 11 all that. What I'm interested in is numbers and taking care 12 of the people's business. You know, personally, I mean, 13 this is good. I mean, I'll be happy to do this. If you 14 guys want to do it, I'm happy to go over there, or they can 15 come over here and we can sit down and visit all day long; I 16 don't care. But what I think we should do is, we need to 17 have a -- very soon, have a budget workshop and we decide 18 what we want to do, and send them the numbers, period. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: When did this 20 exchange take place, Commissioner? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is confidential 22 information. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If you tell me, you'd 24 have to kill me? Is that right? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, it's worse than 4-11-05 18 1 that, Bill. Death is easy. (Laughter.) You're welcome to 2 it. I'm not -- not sure where I got it. But, anyway, 3 that's the bottom line. And I'm sincere that we need to 4 have a meeting and us decide what we want to do, and let the 5 City know what we want to do. I say that every year. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree. In our letter, 7 did we not -- didn't we have a process outlined in it? 8 Didn't we? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I -- in the letter that I sent 10 out, I suggested a process. That letter, incidentally, went 11 out March the 3rd, at the direction of this Court, after our 12 last meeting, and suggesting to them a methodology that I 13 thought would -- would start things rolling on a -- on a 14 pretty effective basis at the Court's suggestion, and that 15 was that each of the governing bodies appoint one or two 16 members to a committee as to each joint function or 17 jointly-owned facility to -- to work on that particular 18 function or facility, and come up with a proposed draft 19 of -- of the operation and the funding of that facility. 20 And then each of those -- each of those committees could 21 present the proposed draft to a joint meeting of both 22 bodies, and any fine-tuning or other changes could be made, 23 and we could get it resolved and go on down the road. The 24 -- the response I got from the City Manager was that he did 25 not feel like that would be effective, and hence his 4-11-05 19 1 subsequent response of -- of coming up with a process. 2 There was an indication that he had -- he had responded by 3 letter, and it came as a surprise to Ms. Mitchell that -- 4 that -- I don't know. It was approximately 25 days later, I 5 suppose, we finally got a copy of -- of a letter which he 6 had -- well, it was further than that. The letter was 25 7 days later, that we never received. And, so, it -- there's 8 just been some serious difficulty in communication. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't -- if we have to 10 meet to figure out a process, I'll do it, but that seems 11 like a total waste of time. I mean, I don't know -- either 12 we sit down, the two bodies, lock ourselves in a room and 13 hammer out these details, or we go with the process like we 14 had. I don't know how else you can do it. You know, those 15 are the two options that I can see. You have a -- 16 committees assigned to these various functions, and, you 17 know, let the committee come up with a recommendation to 18 both bodies, or we sit down as a whole. I don't see much 19 purpose in meeting to develop a process. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, the reason here 21 for not wanting to do it the way that we've always done it 22 is that they have provided us with tons -- was the word 23 "tons"? -- tons of information, and we always say, well, 24 we're not receiving enough information to make decisions. 25 And that's probably true. There's some truth in that. You 4-11-05 20 1 know, they -- they give us books and -- and then when we sit 2 down with them, we argue some points, which is exactly why 3 the -- what the people elected us to do. And I guess that's 4 the point that -- this arguing thing, or working through 5 details and disagreements on numbers may be offensive. I'm 6 not real sure, but I'm really not interested in anything. I 7 think that we need to build our own budget, send it over 8 there, and let's get on down the road with life. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Part of the problem 10 goes back to my querying the numbers at the library a couple 11 years ago. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's correct. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And I made the point 14 that, while I recognize that we -- we receive the books and 15 all the information they've put together by City staff, what 16 I didn't know in that particular instance, and I think it 17 applies to everything we do across the board, we don't know 18 what's behind those numbers. And therein is the difference 19 in the process. We know what's behind our numbers, because 20 we -- we work with it from the base up with every department 21 head, and we know what goes into the making of the budget. 22 What they present to us is their product which has been done 23 by their staff, and so they are comfortable with the 24 numbers, but we still don't know what's behind the numbers. 25 So, I don't think it's unfair if we ask what's behind the 4-11-05 21 1 numbers. And therein lies the difference, and therein lies 2 the problem, and I'm not sure how we're going to get -- get 3 past that. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I think the -- I 5 have used -- and I think the Court has used the way the 6 airport issue was resolved as a model that we should work on 7 other areas we have questions. And, evidently, they didn't 8 like that process, because that's what we're proposing, and 9 they've said no. So, I mean, I -- I thought it worked very, 10 very well. I mean, we came to an agreement; we met on the 11 policies, the direction, we generated the budget, and then 12 both bodies, City Council and Commissioners Court looked at 13 it, made some changes, and went on down the road with a good 14 arrangement. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It did work well. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But -- and that's what we 17 propose for the rest of the other areas such as library, 18 Animal Control, other joint ventures that we have with the 19 City, and they evidently don't think that process worked 20 very well, so I don't know what to do. I mean, I think 21 Commissioner Baldwin's -- you know, I agree with it, except 22 I don't know how we develop a budget for a library when we 23 don't have any of the numbers for the library. Other than 24 just pull one out of the sky. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, we could put a 4-11-05 22 1 cap on what we're spending right now. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We did. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which is what we did 4 last year. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right, let's lower 6 it. (Laughter.) 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what we did 8 last year. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: If I might allude to the 10 library issue, the -- the not having adequate information, 11 Commissioner Williams' request for additional information 12 last year with respect to the library, in fact, disclosed -- 13 and this information was not contained in the information 14 which they furnished to us -- that they had cash reserves of 15 approximately $200,000. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: And that, obviously, was quite 18 pertinent, and I appreciate Commissioner Williams asking 19 that question, because we needed to know that. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: But we need that information. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Judge, as a separate 23 issue in the budget process, about -- excuse me -- about two 24 months ago, after court order, you sent a letter to the City 25 saying that it was our intention to cancel the Animal 4-11-05 23 1 Control contract as of September 30th, and we were going to 2 renegotiate, and I agreed to renegotiate. We haven't had a 3 response to that either. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We also have the EMS 5 contract and the fire contract. We have a lot of these 6 contracts that have been -- one party or the other have 7 notified the other that they're all going to be canceled 8 September 30th, the end of this budget year. And we have 9 requested meetings with the City just to, you know, start 10 negotiations on a new contract, and we've received no 11 response. So, I mean, I don't know if they're waiting until 12 after the elections coming up or -- or what, but that's -- 13 that's too late. I mean, that's -- we're getting ourselves 14 in the same situation we have in prior years, that we need 15 to have these policy discussions now before the budget is 16 started. And, you know, I don't know how you deal with a 17 partner that won't talk to you. That's basically what it 18 is. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the urgency of needing 20 information and coming to some resolution prior to budget 21 discussions by both entities, I pointed out in my initial 22 letter to them that I was hopeful that we could get this 23 process going as soon as possible because of the need for 24 both of us to have that information. I wish I had a 25 definitive answer, but I -- 4-11-05 24 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Commissioner Baldwin, is 2 that a recent -- I don't want to read it. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Did it -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Last Thursday. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Last Thursday? But they 7 didn't outline a process? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They said they didn't 10 like our process. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They don't like either of 13 the ones we've used so far. So, the only thing I can -- 14 Judge, I guess, you know, in response to their e-mail, if 15 you could send them a letter possibly on behalf of the Court 16 saying please recommend a process. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And we -- 18 JUDGE TINLEY: We have to. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And we promise we'll 20 be nice. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. Tell us how they 22 want to do it, and I think we can figure out a way. 23 Somewhat reasonable. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I didn't say I promise 25 I was going to take a bath. I said I'll promise I'll be 4-11-05 25 1 nice. Which we always are perfect gentlemen. The bottom 2 line of this, this is the business of the people. This is a 3 lot of taxpayers' money and services that are on the table. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And it needs -- it's 6 got to be dealt with. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the bottom line -- 8 well, I'm not sure what the bottom line is, but it appears 9 the City does not want to deal with these issues. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else, Commissioner? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely not. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Think you've opened a large 13 enough can of worms there? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pandora's box is 15 open. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: If I might take just a moment, 17 a little over a week ago, I had the honor and privilege of 18 being a guest at a dinner sponsored by and hosted by Ranch 19 Radio in conjunction with our local army recruiter and 20 the -- and the area recruiting command. The featured 21 speaker was the Command Sergeant Major of the 1st Cavalry 22 Division, which has its home right up here at Fort Hood, as 23 I'm sure most of you know. Special guest at that dinner 24 were several members of the 1st Cav, some of whom were still 25 recuperating from wounds and injuries received -- as I'm 4-11-05 26 1 sure most of you know, the 1st Cav is just recently returned 2 home from deployment in Iraq. And the -- all of those 3 soldiers that were there from the 1st Cav were enlisted. I 4 didn't see a single officer there. The Command Sergeant 5 Major was, of course, speaking for the Command, his general, 6 and essentially what he did was give a report to the 7 civilian community. The bottom line of some very candid and 8 emotional remarks was that morale is good, the resolve is 9 strong, the focus is intact, and the soldiers are committed 10 to finishing the mission. There are some -- at least one in 11 this room I know that was there, and I was very, very 12 pleased to hear the remarks, and I would urge all of us to 13 support our men and women in uniform, and when we see them, 14 thank them for their service to our country. 15 Let's get on with the agenda, if we might. 16 The first item on the agenda is purchase of land as shown on 17 plat as owned by the Hill Country Juvenile Detention 18 Facility. Mr. Davis? 19 MR. DAVIS: Yes. My name is Bill Davis, 150 20 Hilltop Drive, Kerrville, Texas. My lack of knowledge of 21 this body and the way it operated, I don't have enough 22 copies for all of you, so I have two here. The proposal is 23 very -- very brief. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, sir. 25 MR. DAVIS: Sorry about that, Judge. If 4-11-05 27 1 you'll notice on the plat, on the second page there, that 2 the Juvenile Detention Center is off to the right of that 3 body of land, and directly behind it is the V.A. Hospital. 4 This land is bordered on Legion Drive. It amounts to 5 approximately 100.79 feet -- excuse me -- by 210 feet in 6 length. The owner of that property, the property that 7 adjoins that, would like to purchase that from the Hill 8 Country Juvenile Detention Corporation. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you have any other remarks? 10 MR. DAVIS: That's it. Very simple. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I think -- I think we 12 may have a number of issues. One is the ability of this 13 Court to summarily sell property. That property, of course, 14 is in the process of being transferred to Kerr County. Once 15 all the remaining title issues are worked out, I think 16 there's some legal issues on under what circumstances we can 17 even dispose of property. Beyond that, I'm not sure what -- 18 what thoughts and ideas for the future that Ms. Harris may 19 have about the use of that property, and I saw some anxiety 20 on her face when you were mentioning a desire of the 21 adjacent property owners to purchase this property. So, we 22 -- we have the benefit of what your request is, and let's 23 see where it goes. 24 MR. DAVIS: My understanding, Your Honor, was 25 that this property first had to be decided whether it was a 4-11-05 28 1 surplus piece of land. My question is, do we wait till this 2 transfer has been made? Or -- I'm looking for ways to 3 proceed. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess my question is, 5 what's the purpose? Why do you need the land, or why -- or 6 the -- 7 MR. DAVIS: This piece of land, if you'll 8 notice, is really landlocked there, unless we have either an 9 easement across that property for water line and sewer line 10 to go up there. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is the tract of 12 land -- 13 MR. DAVIS: That's correct. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- that you're trying to 15 get the easement to get to? 16 MR. DAVIS: That's correct. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Legion -- and where do 18 you need the -- where do you need 30-foot easement? Or -- 19 MR. DAVIS: We're open, as long as it's along 20 that area up to Legion Drive. It really wouldn't -- 21 wouldn't make that much difference to the owner. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm confused exactly what 23 we're talking about. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I am too. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: On the 2.61-acre tract, which 4-11-05 29 1 would be on the southeast property line, of the 2.61-acre 2 tract, it indicates there along the area where the driveway 3 is that there is a 30-foot-wide private access easement. Is 4 there not, in fact, that easement? 5 MR. DAVIS: Yes. The owner is interested in 6 eliminating that. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. You -- 8 MR. DAVIS: Because it will no longer be 9 necessary for this piece of property. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. The -- the 2-acre tract 11 upon which the improvements are shown, the house and the 12 barn -- 13 MR. DAVIS: Correct. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: -- are presently served by 15 that 30-foot-wide private access easement; is that correct? 16 MR. DAVIS: That is correct. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So that easement is 18 intact? 19 MR. DAVIS: Correct. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: And the owner of that 2-acre 21 tract upon which the house and the barn are located does 22 have access to that tract via that access easement? 23 MR. DAVIS: That is correct. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: What I'm hearing from you is 25 that the owner of the 2.61 adjacent tract would like to 4-11-05 30 1 eliminate that easement in the hopes that the 2-acre tract 2 owner would find some other access. 3 MR. DAVIS: That is also correct. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Being across that small 100 by 5 200-foot tract owned by the County. 6 MR. DAVIS: Yes, sir. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And you're interested 9 in purchasing that small piece of land that fronts Legion 10 Drive and is contiguous or is a part of our tract, but it's 11 kind of in front of -- it fronts Legion Drive; is that 12 correct? 13 MR. DAVIS: Yes. Yes. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How much land is 15 that? 16 MR. DAVIS: It's approximately 100.79 feet by 17 210 feet. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: About half an acre. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: About a half acre. 20 MR. DAVIS: Yeah. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I see. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, really, I mean, 23 that's if you purchase that whole corner, but all you really 24 need is a 30-foot easement on the -- 25 MR. DAVIS: We would like to purchase the 4-11-05 31 1 whole -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, but -- excuse me. 3 But a 30-foot easement -- 4 MR. DAVIS: Would suffice, if that's -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If it's next -- I mean, 6 next to, probably, that 2.61 acres. 7 MR. DAVIS: Correct. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Thank you, sir. 10 MR. DAVIS: Thank you. Appreciate your time. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Harris? 12 MS. HARRIS: Yes, sir. That's the site that 13 we had plotted off for our community service garden. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: The site that was cleared last 15 week? 16 MS. HARRIS: Yes, sir. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 18 MR. DAVIS: Would an easement disrupt that 19 garden, then, too much? 20 MS. HARRIS: That would be the decision of -- 21 of these gentlemen. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I recommend our liaisons 23 go out and take a look at this and come back with a 24 recommendation whether we need to pursue it or -- or not. 25 MR. DAVIS: I'll be glad to meet with them 4-11-05 32 1 and answer questions if it's deemed necessary. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: An easement for the 3 purpose of establishing a driveway? 4 MR. DAVIS: Correct. And -- 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which, in effect, 6 then removes the utilization of that part of the land as 7 it's currently being planned; is that correct? 8 MR. DAVIS: Yes. Yes. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 10 MR. DAVIS: Also, that would give us, for 11 water line and sewer line, to go up to Legion Drive. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. Okay, I have 13 a better understanding. Thank you. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there no ability to use the 15 adjacent 30-foot easement for water line and sewer line 16 purposes? 17 MR. DAVIS: Not at this time. 18 MR. ODOM: Would the County be able to 19 utilize or hook into that sewer and water should they have a 20 need to? 21 MR. DAVIS: This is a private line. My 22 understanding -- excuse me -- it's a private line now that 23 runs from the juvenile facility up to the loop there, but 24 that I understand -- my understanding is it's a private 25 line. We were first interested in a sewer line -- first 4-11-05 33 1 interested in tying into that line until we found out it was 2 a private line. Am I correct in that? 3 MS. HARRIS: Sir, I'm sorry, I don't have any 4 idea. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We'll take a look at 6 it and come back. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Thank you, sir. 8 MR. DAVIS: Thank you very much. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Judge, just for my 10 education, if we move forward on this and we declare that 11 property surplus, does that open the -- the opportunity for 12 anybody else to try to purchase it? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's my understanding 16 that it's -- there's some fairly large legal hurdles you 17 have to get over to even -- to sell public-owned property. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I don't -- 19 selling it, to me, is not even on the table, but an easement 20 may -- you know, if the price is right. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Go down between the 22 tomatoes and the carrots -- 23 MR. ODOM: And utility connections that they 24 provide to y'all. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: May be a -- may be not a 4-11-05 34 1 negative to the County. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: At least we know what 3 it is. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything further on that 5 agenda item, gentlemen? Okay. Let's move on to the next 6 item, a request for permission to display a children's art 7 project in the lobby of the Kerr County Courthouse the week 8 of April 18th, 2005. Ms. Meng? Thank you. 9 MS. MENG: I'm Lynn Meng. I'm the program 10 director of Kids Advocacy Place, 1300 East Main, Kerrville. 11 We're just asking, in recognition of Child Abuse Awareness 12 Month, which is April, us, Crisis Council, K'Star, Kids 13 Advocacy Place, CASA have put together -- gathered artwork 14 from some of the children in the shelters and put together a 15 display with statistics and stuff about child abuse 16 prevention. So, we're having it in Bandera this week and 17 Kendall County the last week, and we're hoping to have it in 18 Kerrville next week, on the 18th. Ms. Mitchell and I went 19 and looked, and we were thinking -- there's a big display 20 box with nothing in it; put it in front of that. Or if you 21 think it would be better in front of the courtrooms upstairs 22 in the open area. It's big; it's, like, 8 feet. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 8 feet by 7 and a half 24 feet tall. 25 MS. MENG: Yes. 4-11-05 35 1 JUDGE TINLEY: You've seen it? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. I can read. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think it's better 5 out here where the -- the public -- 6 MS. MENG: I think so. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where the traffic is. 8 And I think it's a super idea. 9 MS. MENG: Yeah, it's neat. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: These are all children 11 that are in counseling and are victims of either sexual or 12 physical abuse. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: That was a motion for 14 approval, Commissioner? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It is. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second, if I can also add 18 to get with Ms. Mitchell to find the proper location. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and second for 20 approval of the agenda item. Any question or discussion? 21 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 22 hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 4-11-05 36 1 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Thank 2 you very much, Ms. Meng. 3 MS. MENG: Thank you. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: The next item on the agenda is 5 consider and discuss approval of a proclamation declaring 6 April 24th through May the 1st, 2005 as Soil and Water 7 Stewardship Week in Kerr County. This was forwarded to me 8 by the Soil and Water Conservation people. Mr. Holekamp, as 9 most of you know, has been a longtime east Kerr County 10 resident, and has been very, very active in -- in this 11 endeavor, and he asked that we adopt this resolution. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would move adoption 13 of the Soil and Water Stewardship Week proclamation and 14 authorize County Judge to sign same. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 17 approval. Any question or discussion? All in favor of the 18 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. The 23 next item on the agenda is discussion in accordance with 24 Local Government Code Section 81.003, that the Clerk shall 25 attest to the accuracy of the Commissioners Court records. 4-11-05 37 1 Ms. Pieper? 2 MS. PIEPER: Gentlemen, I'm sure you've been 3 wondering why I have not been bringing in the minutes for 4 approval. The law changed back in -- I believe it was 2003. 5 It was September 1, 2003, that says the Clerk can attest to 6 the accuracy of the minutes. Therefore, I'm not bringing 7 them in for approval. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You contested the 9 accuracy of the minutes? Is that what you just said? 10 MS. PIEPER: Right, that is correct. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: "Contested" or 13 "attested"? 14 MS. PIEPER: Attest the accuracy of the 15 record. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Got you. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Attest. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Attest. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm sorry. 20 MS. PIEPER: And Kathy, as my deputy, does 21 that. That is correct. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Question. What is 23 all of this other stuff here? 24 MS. PIEPER: This is just showing -- 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: H.B. 2931? 4-11-05 38 1 MS. PIEPER: This is just showing where the 2 Legislature changed. Actually, it's kind of buried on 3 further down. I don't have it marked. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is this just an 6 informational item, or legal requirement for your office, or 7 do we -- do we need to take any action? 8 MS. PIEPER: No, there is no action needed. 9 This is basically just for your information, to understand 10 why I'm not bringing the minutes in for approval. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why aren't you 13 bringing the minutes in for approval? 14 MS. PIEPER: Because you are no longer 15 required to approve the minutes as the Court. However, if 16 you see that there is something incorrect, then you can talk 17 with Kathy. I mean, they can still be corrected, but we 18 just -- we just don't bring them in for approval any more. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. I thought we 20 voted on them every -- every meeting. 21 MS. PIEPER: You haven't this whole year, so 22 I thought I'd better let you know why. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, wait. I have a 24 question about that. The Court approving and you attesting 25 are two different issues. 4-11-05 39 1 MS. PIEPER: The County Attorney has reviewed 2 this also, in case have you any questions for him. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. County -- Mr. County 4 Attorney, will you explain to this poor layman up here the 5 differences between the Court approving the minutes as 6 submitted or amended or corrected, as opposed to the Clerk 7 attesting? 8 MR. EMERSON: The Court can still correct and 9 amend as needed. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How are we going to 11 do that if the Clerk doesn't bring them to us? 12 MR. EMERSON: Because there's still -- I 13 believe the procedures are that it's publicly posted on the 14 web each week after the -- after the court hearing. 15 Statutes allow for both paper and public posting via 16 electronic, which is what Kerr County does. From what I can 17 tell from reading the statute and the changes there and 18 talking to a few people, it was done as an efficiency 19 measure for the Commissioners Court. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, certainly, we 21 should be receptive to that. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, I mean, I would 23 prefer -- and I think they still are. Aren't they 24 circulating through our office still? 25 MS. PIEPER: Yes, they are. 4-11-05 40 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: As long as the hard 2 copy's circulating through for a while, because it's -- with 3 my computer, it's very cumbersome to do it off the web. I 4 like the hard copies that come through. I don't care -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Banik -- as soon as she 6 completes the transcript of a particular meeting, her copy 7 is furnished to our office for -- for our review. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, that's fine. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything further on 10 that one, gentlemen? If not, we'll move on to the next 11 item. Consider final plat of Audubon Place in Precinct 4. 12 Mr. Odom? 13 MR. ODOM: Good morning. As an Aggie, I want 14 to congratulate Baylor, without unsolicited coercion. So, 15 that's a compliment from me to say that I'm proud of Baylor. 16 What I have before you is, we've gone through the 17 preliminary. I have a final plat, and ask the Court to 18 accept this final plat and authorize the Judge to sign the 19 same. I'm open for any questions there may be about this. 20 This is in Precinct 4. It's straightforward. There's no 21 roads in here. It's divided off Witt Road -- I mean Wren 22 Road. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move to approve the 24 final plat of Audubon Place in Precinct 4. And then I'll 25 have a question. 4-11-05 41 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 3 approval. Any questions or discussion? 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Len, the Lot Number 5 2 has 195 feet, approximately, on Wren Road. Does that 6 require a waiver or an exception? 7 MR. ODOM: Sorry, I just put that up. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Less than 200 feet? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It shows 200 there. Or 10 did you -- 11 MR. ODOM: Lot 2 is -- if you look, 12 Commissioner, it's got 194.36, and then it's got a point and 13 then it's got 71.57. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thank you. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or 16 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 17 your right hand. 18 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. The 22 next item is to consider a concept plan for development of 23 17 -- or 14.76 acres on Highway 27 and J.J. Lane located in 24 Precinct 2. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll defer to 4-11-05 42 1 Mr. Odom, and I believe Mr. Machann is here to speak to this 2 issue as well, right? 3 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir, I believe he is. And 4 Mr. Voelkel, I think. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And Mr. Voelkel, of 6 course. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: You pass the ball to 8 Mr. Voelkel? 9 MR. MACHANN: I'll pass the ball. I'm here 10 only if I'm needed. 11 MR. VOELKEL: Good morning, gentlemen. As 12 you were told or maybe know, this property is located right 13 outside of Center Point on Highway 27. I assume that 14 everybody's got a little sketch in their packet? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We did. 16 MR. VOELKEL: Mr. Robert Mosty owns this 17 property. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would be Robert, 19 Jr., would it not? 20 MR. VOELKEL: I'm sorry, Robert Mosty, Jr., 21 yes, sir. And he lives down near Conroe. This property, 22 just so y'all can kind of orient, it has been used as a 23 pecan orchard for years. And, of course, the trees are 24 still there. He's got almost 15 acres, and he'd like to 25 divide it, as we've shown, into two tracts that front along 4-11-05 43 1 Highway 27, and at the bottom down by the river, produce 2 that as a well tract, which is a little more than a third of 3 an acre, which is where he has pumps now that pump water out 4 of the river for irrigating his property north of Highway 5 27. So, we'll try to preserve that as a well tract, if you 6 will, something along those lines. 7 The issue that we have before us would be the 8 tract size on one of the tracts that fronts on Highway 27 9 being less than 5 acres. There is not a water system that 10 provides, at this time, the water for this proposed 11 subdivision. In talking with Road and Bridge and 12 Commissioners prior to today, we thought a plat note which 13 would restrict any development of that lot as far as 14 residential purposes. It would not be able to have a water 15 well -- individual water well; that would have to have some 16 type of water system to be developed. The other issue that 17 came up was the existing easement along J.J. Lane. As you 18 see on your plat, J.J. Lane is a private road easement 19 that's 30-foot wide, and privately maintained. The owner of 20 the property would like to plat it as-is. 21 There was some discussion about what might be 22 done down at the end of J.J. Lane, and I've made a little 23 sketch this morning that might be helpful. The owner would 24 be willing to add a cul-de-sac down at the end of the 25 road -- if you'll pass those around -- the cul-de-sac area 4-11-05 44 1 being the green that I've highlighted there. The pink is 2 the existing easement along J.J. Lane, which is 30 feet 3 wide. As far as being used to access either one of the 4 tracts along the highway, J.J. Lane will not be used for 5 that purpose, although it does -- it's contiguous with the 6 property and does adjoin the property there. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I met with Mr. Voelkel 8 and Mr. Machann on this and brought up a whole issue on J.J. 9 Lane. Originally, I asked -- and probably a little bit 10 unreasonable -- to expand the easement on J.J. Lane to make 11 it a little bit wider. And it really doesn't affect the 12 subdivision, and I think there's some objections to doing 13 that. And as a -- to try to better that situation, I 14 thought that putting a cul-de-sac in at the end at least 15 provides emergency services a place to turn around at the 16 end of J.J. Lane, and they've agreed to do that. I think 17 that at such -- if they ever do develop that 12.6-acre 18 tract, I think at that point the Court should require that 19 easement to be expanded, but that easement is not being used 20 for access in this subdivision, so I really -- I think it's 21 -- and we're probably hard-pressed to require them to expand 22 that easement at this point. But I think the -- and the 23 cul-de-sac, I think, actually is a -- is voluntary as well. 24 I don't think we can require that, but I think they've 25 agreed to do that. That's my opinion on it. 4-11-05 45 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The first meeting 2 that I participated in on this with Lee, we talked about the 3 possibility of expanding that easement. The easement as it 4 exists now goes to all of these lots; is that correct? 5 MR. VOELKEL: That's correct, yes, sir. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Individual lots all 7 contribute to that 30-foot -- is it 30? 8 MR. VOELKEL: That's correct, 30-foot-wide 9 easement. Yes, sir. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What you're talking 11 about is that cul-de-sac would be on the tail end of the 12 12.60 piece of Mr. Mosty's property; is that correct? 13 MR. VOELKEL: That's correct, at the end of 14 the existing private easement. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that the only way 16 that Mr. Mosty was able to access the well tract at the 17 bottom? Or is there a road that separates -- on the eastern 18 side of the 12.6, is there a road that separates that 19 from -- I believe it's the orchard next door to it? 20 MR. VOELKEL: Correct. And I asked Mr. Mosty 21 that question, and there is no easement there -- 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There is no road? 23 MR. VOELKEL: -- for access off the east 24 adjoining property. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 4-11-05 46 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tell me again how 2 you're going to get by the 1.82 acres and not being 5. 3 You're going to just assure us that there's not going to be 4 a water well drilled? 5 MR. VOELKEL: Well, I will do that, but also 6 some type of note on the plat itself to that effect. Some 7 type of plat restriction. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How does the 9 government know that you didn't drill a well next to your... 10 MR. VOELKEL: I don't know that you will know 11 that. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But we do -- 13 MR. VOELKEL: I guess Headwaters will be the 14 one to govern that or police that, so to speak. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Following up on the 16 Commissioner's question, do I not remember correctly that 17 the 1.82 split is going to be purchased by one of the owners 18 contiguous -- of a lot contiguous to that? 19 MR. VOELKEL: That's correct. It's my 20 understanding that it's already under contract, that an 21 adjoining property owner of one of those existing lots off 22 the Stone-Lea Ranch River Tracts is purchasing that tract. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And -- and is it 24 just -- is this just being acquired just because they want 25 1.82 acres of land, or do they have some plans for that? 4-11-05 47 1 And if he has plans for that, does he intend to extend water 2 from wherever he gets it on that lot of his? 3 MR. VOELKEL: I don't know. I'm not sure I 4 can answer that, Mr. Williams. I don't know of any plans 5 that he has for the tract. I would think that if he does 6 decide to develop it, he would have to extend water from his 7 present water system on his own lot, with there being a 8 restriction for no wells. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would think so. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How do these -- the lots 11 along the river, those small lots, get their water? Do they 12 all have individual wells? 13 MR. VOELKEL: It's my understanding, yes, 14 sir. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There's no central 16 system that serves that? 17 MR. VOELKEL: I'm sorry? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There is no central 19 system that serves all those lots? 20 MR. VOELKEL: Not to my knowledge. Each one 21 of them have wells, individuals wells. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What does the -- what 23 does the regulation say about a road -- what happens to a 24 road when there's a subdivision developed? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think -- I mean, 4-11-05 48 1 our rules do not have any language that allows us to require 2 someone to improve a road that's not part of the 3 subdivision. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not part of the 5 subdivision? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. I mean, in other 7 words, J.J. Lane is not part of the subdivision. It already 8 exists. The subdivision is on the side of J.J. Lane, and we 9 don't have any requirements in our rules that allow -- now, 10 Kendall County does have -- has done that in the past, I'm 11 aware, but we have never required a road to get to a 12 subdivision to be upgraded. 13 MR. ODOM: There's -- the exception -- the 14 Attorney General's opinion says that you can't make 15 contractors -- Leonard Odom, Road and Bridge. Attorney 16 General's opinion says that if they were separate once -- 17 let's just say J.J. Lane extended on down -- stopped, 18 extended down, and the developer wanted to do it. We have 19 no right to make him upgrade J.J. Lane. However, an 20 individual on J.J. Lane, which is debatable -- which I would 21 like to point out to the Court, the reason I had some 22 objections to this is that you cannot make them take a 23 separate subdivision and make them upgrade an existing one. 24 Taxpayers have to do that, is what I've read in the Attorney 25 General's opinion. So -- but since we have one thing, I 4-11-05 49 1 don't see why we could not upgrade it. The point being, is 2 that we've looked at this piece of property down here. What 3 I found -- I don't know if this in your packet, because we 4 didn't put this -- we just put it down. Hopefully you have 5 this sheet. Did y'all receive this? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 8 MR. ODOM: Let me pass this around to you. 9 You can take a look. What that is is floodplain, how we 10 overlay everything and take a look at floodplain. But 11 you'll see that this road on J.J. Lane comes out. There's 12 Lots 26, 27, and 28. What is proposed -- what was proposed 13 to us was this right here that shows going through 26, 27, 14 and 28. It says it goes down there. I went down there last 15 week and drove it. That road is in -- it's just like what 16 you see on that floodplain; it -- it curves. To my 17 knowledge, you have no right-of-way down through 26, 27, and 18 28. If you did have that right-of-way, then that might be 19 an argument. But, to me, you're turning back before you 20 cross 26, 27, and 28. Maybe you're into 26. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I mean, I -- 22 MR. ODOM: And that piece of property -- you 23 know, that piece of property is Four Seasons property that 24 we're talking about dividing. Four Seasons Growers owns all 25 this, as the Appraisal District's got it. So you've got a 4-11-05 50 1 separate piece of property other than this 14 acres up 2 there. They're trying to add to it, and you have to extend 3 that road. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're not a subdivision. 5 What you're talking about is not in the subdivision. 6 MR. ODOM: This is part of that subdivision. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Wait. Is this a 8 platted subdivision, or were these lots all set up by metes 9 and bounds years and years ago? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Metes and bounds. 11 MR. VOELKEL: Metes and bounds. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not a platted 13 subdivision. 14 MR. ODOM: And it's not part of that road. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 16 MR. ODOM: It's not part of that 30-foot 17 easement. 18 MR. MACHANN: That's not true. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The easement's on the 20 map. The road nay not be in the easement, but the 21 easement's here. 22 MR. ODOM: The point is that the road does 23 not go through to the end of 28. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Doesn't make any 25 difference. It's the easement. 4-11-05 51 1 MR. ODOM: If that road is extended, then 2 you're in violation of 1.02; you're laying out an easement 3 or a road, and you must bring it up to standards. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But this plat shows an 5 easement all the way to the railroad tracks. 6 MR. ODOM: That's what this shows. That's 7 not what I'm showing on another piece. This -- 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What are you looking 9 at that's different? 10 MR. ODOM: This is off the appraisal. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I'm not going to go 12 by the appraisal records. I'm going to go by the legal -- 13 MR. ODOM: I'm showing you where the road is 14 when you drive. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Does it show where the 16 easement is? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's right. 18 MR. ODOM: That's the point. Where is the 19 easement? Does it go all the way through 28? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This plat says yes. This 21 diagram shows an easement all the way to the end. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what it shows. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I don't know -- I 24 mean, the fact that the road is not in the easement, that's 25 a private property issue. That has nothing to do with us. 4-11-05 52 1 MR. ODOM: Whether -- well, that would be the 2 question I have. Does that road go all the way down? I 3 guess Lee can answer that. That's not what I'm showing. 4 I'm showing that that road turns just as you drive it. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. But the 6 easement -- it doesn't make any difference where the road 7 physically is. It's out of the subdivision. 8 MR. ODOM: Then maybe he can -- if that's 9 true, then you could put the cul-de-sac down there. But if 10 we're extending -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're not -- 12 MR. ODOM: That's -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Excuse me. They're not 14 -- they're not building a cul de sac. They're providing 15 property for the cul-de-sac, as I understand it. 16 MR. VOELKEL: I'm confused. May I look at 17 that map where Mr. Odom is saying the road ends before it 18 gets to the end of those tracts? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, that's off the 20 Appraisal District's computer system. 21 MR. VOELKEL: I got a deed for the property 22 at the end of the road, and it's subject to the easement all 23 the way. 24 MR. ODOM: 28 is? 25 MR. VOELKEL: Correct. This gentleman owns 4-11-05 53 1 26, 27, and 28. 2 MR. ODOM: 27 is one owner. 3 MR. VOELKEL: And he's got the easement going 4 through to the end of his property. 5 MR. ODOM: All right. 6 MR. VOELKEL: Which gets us to where we've 7 got it drawn on our little concept sketch. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: The easement does cover what 9 are known as 26, 27 and 28? 10 MR. VOELKEL: That's correct. That's what 11 this deed here is showing, and to the present owner, it's -- 12 the easement is reserved. And, of course, all the maps I 13 have of Stone-Lea Ranches, even though it's not recorded, it 14 shows the same thing. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, I mean, the issue is 16 that that's all out of the subdivision, though. The road's 17 out of the subdivision, so it's not part of this discussion. 18 I mean -- 19 MR. VOELKEL: Right. Those tracts are not -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- it's like a change in 21 Highway 27; it's irrelevant. We may not like J.J. Lane. 22 That's why I tried to get the easement expanded to 35, 45, 23 60 -- to any amount. Which, you know -- but because of the 24 amount of acreage it would take out of that -- out of the 25 subdivision, they declined to do that. I think that there 4-11-05 54 1 -- we have a precedent under previous court orders in other 2 subdivisions to do well sites that are less than minimum lot 3 size and to allow lots that are not on -- usually we have 4 land where there is not developable -- develop -- whatever 5 that word would be. Cannot develop on those tracts. You 6 know, we've never really had a situation -- and I would 7 think that you -- that to be consistent, you cannot develop 8 the 1.82-acre tract. That's what we've always done in the 9 past. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Does 1.82 have 280 11 feet -- 200 feet of -- linear feet of frontage? 12 MR. MACHANN: Yes, sir. 13 MR. VOELKEL: Yes, sir, it does. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And the 12.60 15 obviously does. 16 MR. VOELKEL: Correct. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And if I might -- excuse 19 me for interrupting. One comment. My logic on providing 20 the property for the cul-de-sac, at some point, if this J.J. 21 Lane is made a county road, then we'd have to come up with 22 additional easement at that time, but at least there would 23 be a cul-de-sac that would be kind of set aside down there. 24 And even now, for emergency services, it would be a -- 25 provide -- you know, if the residents upgrade it, it would 4-11-05 55 1 allow a spot for them to have emergency service vehicles 2 turn around. Right now, there's no -- there's no property 3 for them to -- no easement for them to do that. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The 12.60 is going to 5 remain in Mr. Mosty's ownership? It's -- 6 MR. MACHANN: No, sir, he has contracts on 7 both tracts. We have existing contracts on both tracts. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Who's acquiring the 9 12.6? 10 MR. MACHANN: I didn't -- 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We don't know? 12 MR. MACHANN: It's an individual from out of 13 town. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 15 MR. ODOM: How would you get the 60 foot 16 easement in that 1.8 acres if that 12 acres is developed? 17 If you don't get it now? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, that's going to be 19 up to that person that's buying from the individual. But we 20 can't -- I don't see how we can, in our Subdivision Rules, 21 require anything to be done on J.J. Lane. I mean, I don't 22 see how it's part of the subdivision. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Right. I mean, any more than 24 going out to Lane Valley and saying if someone wants to put 25 a development on Lane Valley, and we say we want a 60-foot 4-11-05 56 1 easement -- you got to buy a 60-foot easement all the way to 2 Highway 27. 3 MR. ODOM: By Attorney General's opinion, we 4 can't do that, but that section that that individual has, 5 Jonathan, we could make them give 60 foot there. And then 6 the next person over and above that can. But that 7 individual developing can get the 60 foot. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't know. 9 MR. MACHANN: If I may -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, sir? 11 MR. MACHANN: I'm Dwaine Machann, 222 Sidney 12 Baker South, Suite 436. I represent Mr. Mosty. I met with 13 Mr. Letz -- Lee Voelkel and I did -- the other day to 14 discuss this easement issue of J.J. Lane. My understanding 15 in talking to Lee, and I've not reviewed all the title 16 records, is that J.J. Lane is a private -- it's an existing 17 private easement. It has been there for -- 18 MR. VOELKEL: Thirty years. 19 MR. MACHANN: -- 30 years. It's reserved in 20 all the deeds to these tracts. It's reserved in the 21 15 acres. It's 15 feet on the 15-acre side, or 12.60 acres. 22 It's 15 feet on the lot side. It's a private road. We're 23 not laying out lots on the private road and developing that 24 and using it for access. The only lots that we're 25 anticipating that will be used for any purpose front on 4-11-05 57 1 Highway 27. They have public access. They exceed your 2 200-foot minimum, and we're not developing a subdivision on 3 J.J. Lane. So, I -- with all due respect to Mr. Odom, I 4 have some familiarity with that area, and I've done, as a 5 preface to me meeting Mr. Letz, some further investigation, 6 and I really think that Commissioners Court would be 7 hard-pressed, with precedents in the past where you've 8 approved well tract lots. This .34 acres is not going to be 9 developed. It's a diversion point to take water out of the 10 Guadalupe River. The 1.82, put a restriction on the plat, 11 no water well. That solves that variance request. It has 12 200 foot of frontage. I think it would be very difficult to 13 require this owner to grant right-of-way for a road that 14 he's not laying out a subdivision for. Our access is on 27. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I couldn't 16 disagree with you more. You are developing property on that 17 road. Whether it's on the north or the south or the east or 18 the west, it is developed on that road. My only problem 19 here is -- you know, and I'll go along with that. I 20 wouldn't argue with you, anyway. Former city -- City 21 Attorney. This 1.82 acres -- 22 MR. MACHANN: After listening to y'all 23 earlier, I don't know if that's a positive a negative 24 comment. (Laughter.) 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are we going to grant 4-11-05 58 1 a variance? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's a 3 nondevelopable tract. 4 MR. MACHANN: I don't believe there's a 5 variance issue here. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's not 5 acres. 7 MR. MACHANN: Oh, I'm sorry. I thought you 8 were talking about the road. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, I'm off the road. 10 Y'all are going to beat me back on the road; I can see that 11 coming. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Commissioner, the 13 only reason for the 5 acres is water availability. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. Which we're 15 going to talk about later today. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: If we fix it on the 17 plat plan that they can't drill a water well there, then 18 there's no reason for the 5-acre -- 19 MR. MACHANN: And the purchaser of that 20 property -- excuse me -- owns the -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we start going 22 down a real slippery slope if we take that approach; that if 23 you don't put a well on it, you don't have to have a 5-acre 24 minimum. 'Cause all of a sudden they're going to say, "I'm 25 using a rain catchment system. I'm going to put it on a 4-11-05 59 1 half-acre lot." I think our minimum lot size is 5 acres. I 2 think what we have done is, you cannot develop a tract -- if 3 you have a smaller lot, you can't develop it. That means 4 you can't build a home on it either. If they want to do 5 that at the time they have a community water system that 6 they can hook up to, then they can come back and do a replat 7 and get -- you know, that become a buildable tract, but at 8 the moment it is not a buildable tract. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, you're -- what 10 you're saying is the plat should not say no water well; it 11 should say no development? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No development. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Does that satisfy 14 your concern? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Just -- I'm not 16 totally convinced that that can be tracked by the 17 government, you know. Just -- I -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree with that, but 19 we've done it before, is the problem. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, yeah. Well -- 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think probably, 22 Leonard, your concern is not what happens here with respect 23 to splitting the tract into two, 12.6 and 1.82, and 24 segregating the well tract. Your concern is downstream -- 25 MR. ODOM: Downstream. 4-11-05 60 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- as to what happens 2 with -- 3 MR. ODOM: And before, when this was brought 4 to the concept when we were there, Commissioner, this was 5 J.J. Lane; it wasn't developed off 27. I encouraged 6 development off 27, but that's not what was presented to us. 7 It was presented off J.J. Lane there. And so that -- you 8 know, you can do that. But the other thing, you're still 9 going to need a variance, because you need it divisible. 10 You can have those sizes, but you only have 14.76 acres, and 11 it has to be divisible. The average has to be 5 acres. And 12 you don't have the average of 5 acres on these three lots. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That doesn't apply for 14 less than four lots. 15 MR. ODOM: You know what? You're right. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That is true. 17 MR. VOELKEL: I was -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Currently, but that's 19 about to change. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Want to bring it back 21 this afternoon? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Come back later. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I'm real 24 interested -- and, really, this is to Rex. Can we require 25 additional easement on J.J. Lane? I mean, whether or not 4-11-05 61 1 they're saying it's -- it is access. I mean, I agree, it is 2 access. I mean, it does provide access to these lots. 3 MR. EMERSON: I think it's a real gray area, 4 because your easement that's there is split between the land 5 that's proposed to be subdivided and the other lot owners. 6 MR. ODOM: That's right. It's a 15-foot 7 easement. 8 MR. EMERSON: Part of that easement runs down 9 the land that's being subdivided. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I -- I mean, I've 11 discussed it -- probably about an hour, we've talked on 12 this, met with them about this. And my original position 13 was I wanted a 60-foot easement, and he's about to have a 14 coronary over there, and beat me back on that, and said 15 that's not -- you know, and I think -- I mean, I -- I don't 16 think we can require it. But I still would like to require 17 it, and if we can, I think we should require additional 18 easement there, because I think it is the time now to get 19 that, which helps the -- you know, the lots along the river 20 that are out of the subdivision, and also helps the 21 subdivision from an access standpoint. But I just don't -- 22 I don't think we can require it, as I understand it. But if 23 the County Attorney says we can require it -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what you're 25 saying? We can? 4-11-05 62 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He said it's gray. 2 MR. EMERSON: I think it's somewhat gray. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How gray is gray? 4 MR. ODOM: What are they willing to give us? 5 Are you willing -- at the last discussion we had, that -- 6 Lee, you said you felt like that they would. 7 MR. MACHANN: No, sir, we're not. 8 MR. ODOM: Okay. 9 MR. MACHANN: I hate to appear a little 10 agitated, but I am. I've been involved in this for several 11 weeks; I've never heard of Mr. Odom. I've never heard of 12 any objection from Mr. Odom. Maybe he's made them 13 privately, but to show up at this meeting and be shown a 14 bunch of maps and so forth and receive this type of a -- of 15 a treatment without any telephone call or anything, I think 16 is -- I don't appreciate it. And so I just thought I'd let 17 y'all know that. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, you know, I can 19 understand what you're saying, Mr. Machann. And, by the 20 same token, the Commissioner was excluded from your meeting, 21 this one, so I'm kind of new into this discussion as well. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are you hot? 23 MR. MACHANN: I thought you already had a 24 meeting. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I did, but I didn't 4-11-05 63 1 have a meeting with you. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This needs to be 3 tabled. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I think -- let me interject 5 something else, if I might. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They're lined up. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: J.J. Road, that's a private 8 road easement. It may run only to the benefit of those 9 various lot owners down there by metes and bounds. The 10 owners to the north or east of that easement, may not run to 11 their benefit at all. They may not have any legal right to 12 use it. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It runs -- uses their 14 property. The easement's on both properties. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 15 on each side. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 15 feet on both sides of 17 the property line. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't know what the chain of 19 title is. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't either. Since 21 they granted that easement on both sides, I would think both 22 sides have access to it. I think Mr. Mosty has access; 23 that's how he gets to his well lot. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If we were to expand 25 the easement, Jon -- if we were expanding the easement, that 4-11-05 64 1 would be an additional 45 off of Mr. Mosty's side to get the 2 60? No, 30 -- additional 30? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: 45. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Huh? 5 MR. MACHANN: Additional 30 feet. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 30 off Mr. Mosty's to 7 get to 60? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. A total of 45 feet off 9 of his side, though; 15 which is already in place, and 30 10 more. 11 MR. MACHANN: 15's in place; be another 12 30 feet. If I might respond, Commissioner Williams, you 13 were not omitted by any -- any -- 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm sorry? 15 MR. MACHANN: You were not omitted from that 16 meeting by any deliberative thought process. My 17 understanding was you had already talked to Mr. Voelkel, had 18 talked about some variances. It wasn't anything that was 19 dramatic that came out of that meeting. I've had 20 discussions with the County Attorney, who advised us that 21 Mr. Letz had some questions, who told us it might be a good 22 idea to sit down with Mr. Letz. That's why we sat down with 23 Mr. Letz. So, if you take offense at that, I think it's 24 misplaced. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm not taking 4-11-05 65 1 offense. Don't misunderstand. 2 MR. MACHANN: That's what I thought I heard. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I certainly am not -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I did too. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm certainly not 6 taking offense at my colleague, who knows more about 7 subdivision rules -- a lot more about subdivision rules than 8 I do. 9 MR. MACHANN: I don't think it's the same 10 thing as Mr. Odom standing up here. You certainly would 11 have been invited. I thought you had already been involved 12 in discussions fully, and Mr. Letz had an issue that -- 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I was in the 14 original -- 15 MR. MACHANN: -- the County Attorney asked us 16 to -- 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I was in the original 18 discussion, and you weren't. 19 MR. MACHANN: I understand. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: I think we've looked at this 21 from about six different angles. I think we probably need 22 to confine it to a motion, if we can get one. If not, we're 23 going to move on. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I really think that we 4-11-05 66 1 need to -- the County Attorney needs to weigh in on a legal 2 opinion on this easement issue. And, personally, I think 3 this needs to be tabled, and we can come back in a week or 4 four days or whatever and deal with it just by itself. I 5 don't mind doing that at all, but I think we may be a little 6 bit hasty here. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think this -- as a 8 concept plan, we generally don't make -- take objection to a 9 concept plan, but we're aware of it. But when it comes to 10 the first preliminary plat, by that time, the County 11 Attorney can have an opinion on that easement issue. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's true. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's where we are 14 today, is concept, right? 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah, they've heard 16 our concerns, and the next plat needs to address them. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, we have a 18 timed -- 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, sir. Mr. Machann, you 20 had one more comment? 21 MR. MACHANN: Yeah. From a timing 22 standpoint, I certainly don't -- you know, I have no 23 objection at all to the -- you know, you'll need to have an 24 attorney -- your legal counsel give you an opinion as to 25 whether you can widen this road or not. We do have a 4-11-05 67 1 closing scheduled. What we'd like to do is to get the -- I 2 think the preliminary plat -- was it April 25th? Is that 3 the -- 4 MR. VOELKEL: That's the next meeting that we 5 can come before -- but this issue needs to be resolved 6 before then, or during that process. 7 MR. MACHANN: If -- can we make that part of 8 that process? In other words, assuming that -- if we do get 9 approved, we at least don't get delayed on the closing. But 10 there's a procedural matter of having to wait until May for 11 the preliminary. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the -- the 13 preliminary plat -- I mean, it's going to be whether the 14 County Attorney can give us an opinion by that date, you 15 know. 16 MR. MACHANN: Right. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think he probably 18 will be able to. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would prefer the 20 County Attorney clearing up the issue of whether or not we 21 can or cannot require easement to be improved to 60 feet, at 22 which time, when you tell us that we can or cannot, I'm 23 willing to offer a motion, but not today. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's move on to a 25 timed item that we have for 10 o'clock. It's after that 4-11-05 68 1 time now. We'll move to Item 9, discuss and consider 2 funding for First Responder education via the internet. 3 Commissioner Baldwin, I believe you placed this on the 4 agenda today. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir, I did. Eric 6 Maloney is here from the Kerrville Fire Department. That is 7 our -- our person with the First Responder program, and Eric 8 has some thoughts, and -- and I -- personally, I kind of 9 like what he's talking about, and I'll give you a brief, and 10 then he can get in. You know, they offer CEU's, actual 11 training -- licensing to First Responders around the county, 12 and he wants to offer them via the internet. One of my 13 questions was, does everybody have access to a computer? 14 And I still have that question in my mind. Another question 15 is, does our representative, Mr. Maloney, still check off -- 16 sign off on the hours obtained and the studies and 17 everything that's done on the internet? And the answer is 18 yes to that. It costs 30 -- I don't know -- how much does 19 it cost outside of your program? 20 MR. MALONEY: $35 per person. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what it costs 22 us, but wasn't there another number? Aren't you getting a 23 deal here? 24 MR. MALONEY: Yes -- well, that's the total 25 bargain. It's $525 total. 4-11-05 69 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: $35 a person. There's 2 15 people, so that's $525. He already has that in the 3 budget; it's not an increase in anything. And this would be 4 for two years. So, you talk about what I didn't talk about. 5 MR. MALONEY: Okay. Commissioners, Judge, 6 here's a handout. This is -- as Commissioner Baldwin said, 7 my name's Eric Maloney. I'm the EMS Coordinator for the 8 Kerrville Fire Department, also the representative for the 9 Kerr County First Responder program. A brief update, I 10 guess, kind of what Commissioner Baldwin was talking about. 11 Currently -- I guess a little background with the First 12 Responder program -- we have 29 First Responders out there. 13 There are 15 non-Kerrville Fire Department volunteers, and 14 that includes 14 basic EMT's and one paramedic out there 15 currently. That is divided up into the five zones, as y'all 16 are familiar with. The all have equipment currently, and 17 they probably average, it would be my guess, one to two 18 calls per day in the county. So, the volunteers make them 19 one to two calls for cardiac, motor vehicle accidents or so 20 forth. Since I took over, we have increased the response. 21 We have increased the turnout, so we're getting an excellent 22 response with volunteers showing up on scene and really 23 assisting the Kerrville Fire Department. All responders now 24 have the appropriate gear and radios, so we're all equipped 25 out there. And we currently have 14 AED's in the county, so 4-11-05 70 1 that's not bad; we have about half, I guess could you say, 2 out there, funded AED's. 3 The Continuing Education program, actually 4 I'm in charge of that; that is part of my responsibility, 5 and we currently meet the fourth Monday of every month. I 6 do e-mail Commissioner Baldwin as we're doing the meeting 7 from there, and we meet from 7:00 to 9 o'clock, and we offer 8 a total of about 88-plus hours every four years, is what we 9 offer in the C.E. program. Basic EMT's are required to have 10 72 hours. In the handout I gave you, it says the EMT 11 there -- the basic, it has 72 hours of what they're required 12 to have every four years. We only offer 88. That 72 hours 13 is pretty specific, as you can see in the content areas, so 14 as we have C.E. -- say I have one content area in January. 15 If somebody misses it due to work, kids or whatever, it may 16 be -- for the volunteers, it may be a while till I get back 17 around to that same content area, maybe another four months. 18 So, they would have to make that one in four months, or else 19 they're going to end up falling behind. I think that's what 20 we've seen in the past. 21 In talking to some of the volunteers out 22 there, the fact is that some of them are having to spend 23 their own money in order to, I guess, get all the required 24 C.E., and as a person volunteering out there, it costs them 25 about $100 for them to spend out of their own pocket. They 4-11-05 71 1 are carrying the C.E. strictly as a volunteer for the First 2 Responder program; these people are an employee elsewhere 3 and they just do it as a volunteer. So, I think this is 4 going to be a good program for the First Responders out 5 there. Paramedics, on the other hand -- 'cause we do have 6 the one paramedic. He's required to have 144 C.E. hours. 7 We don't offer enough for him at all. We only offer 88 8 hours, so he's going to have to find out -- he's going to 9 have to obtain the rest of his C.E. on his own. It just 10 becomes tough. In talking to everyone else, work's either 11 getting done late at work -- and, like, I can only schedule, 12 like, one a month there as far as getting together. Having 13 kids, being sick, whatever it may be, it does get kind of 14 difficult for them to kind of spare their own time to get 15 together. So, as I say, I teach one different content each 16 month. It's the same as I do for the fire department, and 17 they are allowed to come to the fire department during the 18 week. 19 The proposal I have will be this online C.E. 20 program. In discussing this, they're -- they're able to 21 obtain this C.E. at their own schedule. So the cost, as 22 Commissioner Baldwin said, is $35 per person, and this would 23 be strictly for the volunteers. Has nothing to do with the 24 fire department, so it would take care of the 15 people that 25 we have out there. They are able to obtain 289 C.E. hours 4-11-05 72 1 every two years, which is more than enough to make sure that 2 they do have the required amount for the state. I'm able to 3 track all the C.E. online. So, basically, if they're able 4 to get access to a computer -- most of them have the access. 5 There was only actually one person who didn't, but he could 6 go over to his cousin's house, or the library has access 7 over there. 'Cause there's nothing that they need to print 8 out, so they can do it at the library. They can make the 9 time to go over there if they can make the time to get the 10 C.E. Where we're meeting now, they can definitely make the 11 time to go to the library for the C.E. at their own 12 convenience for this. What else? 13 They have access to 289 C.E. hours. I have 14 access to all this, so I will actually come up as an 15 administrator. I'll be on there, so I'll be able to see 16 what kind of C.E. they're getting. It will show all the 17 content areas on there. It will show that they have four 18 hours in airway, six hours of medical and so forth, so if 19 someone's falling behind, I can say, you know, "Hey, we need 20 to catch up with this." You know, I need -- "You need to 21 make sure that you do get the C.E. appropriate to keep up to 22 speed." I can make assignments. I can block the C.E. I 23 can do a lot of things with the C.E. program itself. 24 Actually, this is kind of where it's heading -- where things 25 are moving here in the near future. There's no extra funds 4-11-05 73 1 for this. I can take it out of this year's budget. Tim 2 Ahrens and myself sat down and took a look at the budget, 3 and there were some things we could push off till next 4 budget year, so we would actually make room for the $525 for 5 this, so I'm not asking for any extra funds here. 6 Meetings, we currently -- I still want to 7 meet with them on a regular basis. We're going to get 8 together on a monthly or bimonthly basis. We're going to 9 get together for about an hour, just kind of go over the 10 services, different discussions, problems with the programs. 11 So, this is not going to eliminate me being in contact with 12 the First Responders, 'cause I don't want to do that at all, 13 'cause we got a pretty good program working here. So, I 14 still want to get together. And if we have more C.E. -- if 15 they want to do something different, by all means, I'll hold 16 the C.E. I don't have a problem with that at all. I think 17 this will be of benefit; this will assist them. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, all -- 19 MR. MALONEY: Any questions? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All you need from this 21 Court is permission to pursue? You are not asking for any 22 money, just -- 23 MR. MALONEY: Yes, sir. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just permission? 25 MR. MALONEY: Yes, sir, just permission to 4-11-05 74 1 pursue this. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I like it. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sounds good. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Here in 2005, this is 5 the kind of thing we should be doing. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Couple of advantages. One is 7 cost. Two is the scheduling difficulty that you'd otherwise 8 have. This way, each individual can pursue it on their own 9 schedule, plug it in wherever they need to. 10 MR. MALONEY: Absolutely. Currently, on the 11 C.E.'s, I get anywhere from six to nine of the -- of the 15 12 people who can make it. Now, everyone kind of e-mails 13 they're doing something else. So, this will be their own 14 time, so they'll be able to do it. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Eric, in your opening 16 comments, you made the comment that they respond to one or 17 two calls in the county per day? 18 MR. MALONEY: Yes, sir. That would just be 19 an average guess. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, is this -- yeah, 21 I understand. You're talking about the First Responders 22 make one or two calls? 23 MR. MALONEY: Yes, sir. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How many calls does 25 the ambulance go out into the county? 4-11-05 75 1 MR. MALONEY: Into the county per day? Boy, 2 I just saw that figure, too, as far as what we do. I don't 3 remember offhand. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, what you're saying 5 to me is the First Responder doesn't respond to every call 6 that an ambulance -- 7 MR. MALONEY: No, sir. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- goes out? 9 MR. MALONEY: No, sir. They typically 10 respond to just the Priority 1 calls, same as the City. We 11 would ask for an engine company to respond, and it would be 12 the same thing with that. We'd ask the First Responders. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 14 MR. MALONEY: Chest pain, seizures, minor 15 traumas, major motor vehicle accidents. And that's just a 16 guess; I don't have anything to really judge. I don't keep 17 records of how many the First Responders make. I would 18 guess probably one or two a day. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's good. I 20 appreciate your -- 21 MR. MALONEY: Yes, sir. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Appreciate that. If 23 there's a motion required, I'll be happy to make it. Y'all 24 figure out what needs to be said. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make -- I'll make a 4-11-05 76 1 motion to approve the C.E. plan as presented. Is that your 2 motion? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I actually wanted to 4 second it. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, second. Okay, I 6 made the motion. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I knew you were. That's why 8 he -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's why he -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: -- punched him over here. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: As presented. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. We have a motion and a 13 second. Any further question or discussion? 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Just one comment, 15 Judge. As an aside, Mr. Maloney, I mentioned this in court 16 last time, that recently I was on the scene of a medical 17 emergency for, I think, the fifth time since I've lived out 18 here in west Kerr County, and the First Responders and the 19 EMS did a terrific job, as they have all five times. So, 20 the people -- the people in west Kerr County appreciate the 21 work you all are doing. 22 MR. MALONEY: Thank you. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Just encourage you 24 to keep it up. 25 MR. MALONEY: Thank you. I'll pass it on. 4-11-05 77 1 Thank y'all. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 3 discussion? All in favor of that motion, signify by raising 4 your right hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 9 MR. MALONEY: Thank you. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Why don't we recess for 11 approximately 15 minutes. 12 (Recess taken from 10:26 a.m. to 10:43 a.m.) 13 - - - - - - - - - - 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's come back to 15 order, if we might. We just took a short recess, and we're 16 back in session now. The next item on the agenda is Item 7, 17 discuss and consider declaring April the 23rd, 2005, as 18 Earth Day here in Kerr County. Mr. Arreola? 19 MR. ARREOLA: Good morning. This year, the 20 Kerr County Environmental Health Department is actively 21 working with the rest of the entities in organizing the 22 Earth Day at the Nature Center. There's a few entities 23 working together. You might have a copy of a proclamation. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mm-hmm. 25 MR. ARREOLA: And we would like to have it on 4-11-05 78 1 April the 23rd of this year. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move to approve. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 5 approval of the agenda item. Any question or discussion? 6 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 7 hand. 8 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 10 (No response.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Thank 12 you, Mr. Arreola. Next item on the agenda is Number 8, 13 consider and discuss appointing Ambra Freeman and Pam Peter 14 to the Kerr County Child Welfare Board. Commissioner 15 Baldwin? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, sir. This 17 was up last time, and those two names were on the agenda, 18 and we decided that we needed a little background. And that 19 background has been provided now, so I move for approval. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 22 approval of the agenda item. Any question or discussion? 23 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 24 hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4-11-05 79 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Next 4 item is Item Number 10, moving the office of J.P. Precinct 5 4. Judge Ragsdale? 6 JUDGE RAGSDALE: You know, you guys -- I 7 mentioned to you outside, this fellow was complaining about 8 how he was treated in here today. He ought to get a 9 building permit from the City of Kerrville if he wants to be 10 treated roughly. But, anyway -- 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Just say what you 12 think, Judge. (Laughter.) 13 JUDGE RAGSDALE: We have a problem in our 14 office. We've been working -- and I sought help from 15 Commissioner Nicholson and Glenn Holekamp. We were trying 16 to find some property to move to that would be sufficient in 17 size for me and -- and for Paula Rector. Paula's joining me 18 on this -- this request to move. Of course, we've been -- 19 in no way to slight anyone included in the county 20 government, but we just -- we're trying to find some -- 21 something large enough for both of us, and there are a 22 couple places in Ingram. What has necessitated this -- I 23 think that's a good word -- is the fact that the building 24 has really become uninhabitable. You can go in the back 25 room and look up through the ceiling and -- I mean, you can 4-11-05 80 1 look up through; the roof and the ceiling are one and the 2 same. They got a 5-gallon bucket of oil and poured it on 3 the hole, and it just poured 5 gallons of oil all over the 4 floor in the back room. I fell in November trying to get 5 through the puddle of water that was back there after a 6 rain. I had a few choice words at that time, but thank 7 goodness, I wasn't injured. 8 We have worked and worked and worked with 9 this fellow, asking him to fix the things, and he kept 10 promising many, many times. I even came to him suggesting 11 several alternatives that would satisfy us, and he just 12 never has done it. After I made this request to be put on 13 the agenda, apparently the newspaper picked it up and didn't 14 have much to print, and put it on the front page this 15 morning. And he came under a full head of steam into my 16 office while I wasn't there and screamed at my clerk that 17 somehow, today, all of the materials necessary for the 18 repair for our roof had been delivered. And she didn't know 19 who he was; she's only been there for about a month. But he 20 was, according to her, ranting and raving about we could 21 just move anyway, which really offended me. 22 I've had enough. It's -- it's just -- it's a 23 health hazard. It's ruining our equipment. Last night, 24 when the cloud came up unannounced, I went down to the 25 office and had to move a whole bunch of furniture around to 4-11-05 81 1 keep it from pouring water into my fax machine and printer 2 again. But it's ruined some personal things. Most office 3 equipment I have in my office is my own, and it's ruined 4 several things. You can't use the restroom without standing 5 in an inch and a half to 2 inches of water. I find that 6 offensive, too. But, at any rate, we need to make a change. 7 Mr. Holekamp has looked at a couple places that are 8 available. And I'm not sure what we would need to do from 9 this point on. I can't make any contracts, of course, and 10 in the past, Mr. Holekamp has been, I guess, the liaison 11 between you and us in acquiring off-courthouse facilities. 12 He's the one that negotiated where we are now. So, I would 13 like -- I guess whatever you need to do to allow him to -- 14 to negotiate or be able to report back to you so that we can 15 move. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, what's the status 17 of the current lease? 18 JUDGE RAGSDALE: It's a month-to-month 19 tenancy. What I've understood -- I've not looked at the 20 contract, myself, but from what I've understood from Glenn 21 was that we had a termed lease -- written lease, and it 22 expired, and a provision in that termed lease was that at 23 the end of it, it became a month-to-month tenancy. He 24 announced to my clerk this morning that we could just darn 25 sure move, so I don't know if he -- if he has intention of 4-11-05 82 1 terminating the lease. He's not done it officially. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It seems to me that -- I 3 mean, we were aware of this situation and that you were 4 working with Glenn and looking at some other options. I 5 mean, it seems that we need to come up with a -- a location. 6 I mean, we need a proposal to us as to a new location, it 7 seems to me. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What I'd like to see 9 happen is for Glenn to come in here with a firm proposal. 10 Might be two options; it might be one option, I don't know. 11 But to come in and say, "Here's the proposal, and it is 12 satisfactory to Ms. Rector and Judge Ragsdale." 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree, and once we have 15 that, we give 30 days notice and move. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is this drawing -- is 17 this your present facility? 18 JUDGE RAGSDALE: Yes, sir. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, thank you. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm interested in 21 knowing Ms. Rector's position on it, because I'm reading 22 Judge Ragsdale's memorandum, and he talks about the Tax 23 Assessor/Collector had in the past objected to a move. 24 MS. RECTOR: I think that was -- I'm sorry, 25 Bill, I didn't mean to interrupt you. I think that was a 4-11-05 83 1 misunderstanding, kind of a lack of communication on our 2 part. I had never objected to the move. In fact, I was in 3 favor of it when Commissioner Nicholson mentioned it a month 4 or so ago. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think what 6 happened there was, I was sitting around in Precinct 4's 7 office one day, and Bill and I said, "Let's go look at some 8 office spaces." We were kind of up to our ankles in water, 9 so we did that, and then contacted Mr. Holekamp at that 10 time. We should have contacted Ms. Rector, but we didn't do 11 that. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 13 MS. RECTOR: But everything -- Bill and I 14 have talked about it, and we both agree that something needs 15 to be done one way or the other. The building is really in 16 poor shape. Nothing's been done since we've been in there, 17 except it's just gotten worse over time. And with all that 18 tar, whatever it was that came down inside, it was like an 19 oil slick in the back of the office, and was very dangerous. 20 They've attempted to clean some of it up, but it's not all 21 cleaned up yet, and that's been there for a couple of months 22 or more. And with every rain that we get, it just continues 23 to get worse. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask a question 25 now. What -- what would be both of y'all's attitude if he 4-11-05 84 1 repaired the roof? Today or tomorrow or in three days. 2 MS. RECTOR: I think there's a lot more to it 3 than just repairing the roof. The damage that's done in the 4 back of the office, and Bill -- everything that's back there 5 is ruined, and the walls are wet. There's boxes that he's 6 got stored back there that are wet, and it's a health 7 hazard, unless he will come and clean all that stuff up. 8 But I don't envision the rotting wood and everything being 9 replaced. I think he's just mainly concerned with the roof. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, y'all want to 11 move. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: There's one other 13 issue, Commissioner. The current facility is -- you can get 14 by with it size-wise, but it's not large enough for 15 Ms. Rector or Judge Ragsdale. 16 JUDGE RAGSDALE: We've outgrown it. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Don't need a whole 18 lot more space, but another couple hundred feet would -- 19 would improve the quality of service that we do out there. 20 MS. RECTOR: Absolutely. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did you say that there 22 is some available out there? 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We've looked at two, 24 one on Junction Highway in Ingram and one at the dam -- 25 MS. RECTOR: The dam store area. 4-11-05 85 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- complex. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's not use ugly 3 language. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Where the damn 5 lawyer is, and the damn cafe and the damn laundry. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Put the damn J.P. 7 there too, right? 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The damn lawyer owns 9 it. (Laughter.) 10 JUDGE RAGSDALE: I join with Ms. Rector in 11 that. The ceiling tiles are all caving in. It smells 12 moldy; stuff stinks. It's really not large enough for me to 13 have the trials that I really should be having at my office. 14 I mean, we've gotten by with it, 'cause no one's objected. 15 But, seriously, I'm supposed to be having court in my 16 precinct, and I can't have jury trials in my precinct the 17 way it is now. The things that are presently available are 18 -- are much more costly, and that's because they're better. 19 They're habitable. They aren't nasty. And so -- and both 20 -- both the people that we've talked to are extremely 21 willing to accommodate us and make some -- some pretty 22 healthy concessions for the promise of a long-term deal. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How -- how much more 24 costly are we talking? 25 JUDGE RAGSDALE: Plenty. I don't -- I don't 4-11-05 86 1 think you really want to discuss all that right now, do you? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably not. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: As I'm sure all of you saw, 4 there was some communication from the County Attorney to the 5 property owner at the current location. For informational 6 purposes, apparently in the last week someone purporting to 7 act on behalf of the owner left a message with Mr. Holekamp 8 that materials had been ordered to replace the roof. And, 9 as Judge Ragsdale mentioned a moment ago, lo and behold, 10 today, just a -- in a telephone conversation just within the 11 past hour, the owner has declared that he's ready to 12 commence putting on the new roof this afternoon. For 13 whatever -- for whatever that's worth, I pass that along to 14 you. Obviously, there -- the roof was the issue that caused 15 all the problems, but apparently merely fixing the roof does 16 not resolve all the problems that have accumulated as a 17 result of a bad roof. 18 JUDGE RAGSDALE: Well, water pours in -- 19 JUDGE TINLEY: There's some drainage problems 20 also? 21 JUDGE RAGSDALE: Yes. Water comes in under 22 the back wall unless he digs it out once a year, which he 23 won't do until water comes through. So, we have to get in 24 there and sweep the water out every time it rains. But, you 25 know, there comes a point where good faith just doesn't 4-11-05 87 1 exist any more. He promised me -- well, for the last two 2 years, he was going to fix the roof next month, next month, 3 next month. Then he promised me absolutely by January -- by 4 the end of January, we would have a new roof on there. 5 Well, now we're in the middle of April, and the materials 6 just got delivered today. And I haven't seen them. 7 MS. RECTOR: Well, another one of my concerns 8 is, if they do go ahead and fix the roof, what's going to 9 happen to the rest of it? Is he just going to walk away 10 from it so we have to spend another two years trying to get 11 him to clean up the rest of the mess? 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I would think that 13 when the two of you, working with Mr. Holekamp, come back 14 with a proposal, it could include staying where you are. 15 JUDGE RAGSDALE: Yes. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Or it might conclude 17 that where you are is not sufficient and you need to move. 18 But -- 19 JUDGE RAGSDALE: And he made it quite clear 20 that when he fixed the roof, the price was going up on the 21 building. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- the question -- 23 I'm sure y'all probably have done this, but have you looked 24 at possibly sharing some of the space with City of Ingram? 25 JUDGE RAGSDALE: They don't have any space. 4-11-05 88 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They don't have any? 2 JUDGE RAGSDALE: No. They have one room 3 that's not currently occupied that's the size of this room 4 here. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do they have a courtroom? 6 JUDGE RAGSDALE: Yes. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That may be an option, 8 for you to use the municipal court, or a courtroom in 9 your -- 10 JUDGE RAGSDALE: Yes. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, in your precinct. 12 JUDGE RAGSDALE: If they're willing to accept 13 the liability and insurance and those kinds of things, I'm 14 sure Danny Edwards would love to discuss that with you. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There is another 16 option. The County owns property in Ingram, down that old 17 loop near that bridge near the Point Theatre. 18 JUDGE RAGSDALE: I thought y'all gave that 19 away. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm sorry? 21 JUDGE RAGSDALE: Oh, behind the Little League 22 park? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. This side of the 24 bridge. 25 JUDGE RAGSDALE: Oh, the old yard? Don't you 4-11-05 89 1 have that leased to the City of Ingram? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I can't remember. 3 Seems like we did do something with that. 4 JUDGE RAGSDALE: I think y'all leased it to 5 the City of Ingram about -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We own that. 7 JUDGE RAGSDALE: -- 15 years ago. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Leonard also has a 9 yard out toward Mountain Home, couple miles out of Ingram. 10 MR. ODOM: You can have that front part right 11 on the highway right there that we cleared that old building 12 off of. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's another 14 option. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, I mean, we already 16 own property. 17 JUDGE RAGSDALE: If you want to build a 18 building. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And these new prefab 20 buildings are pretty nice. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well -- 22 MR. ODOM: Put them by the asphalt pit back 23 there. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, put them by the 25 asphalt pit. 4-11-05 90 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Get Glenn to bring 2 us some proposals or recommendations. 3 JUDGE RAGSDALE: Okay. Thank you. 4 MS. RECTOR: Thank you. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you very much. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm -- I like your option 7 there. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that might be a 10 lot more cost-effective in the long term. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Own some land in 12 Mountain Home also, but it's too far away. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: The next item on the agenda, 14 Item 11, is a presentation, discussion, and possible 15 approval of Hart Intercivic eSlate Electronic Voting System, 16 to comply with the HAVA requirements. It's my understanding 17 from talking with the Clerk that the vendor, Hart 18 Graphics -- I believe that's who that is -- has got the 19 whole thing set up down in County Court at Law. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: And -- 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thought we was going 23 to dodge this one. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the option I'm offering 25 you is -- is do we bypass this one and come back to it 4-11-05 91 1 later? Or -- and go through the rest of these items, or do 2 we just go ahead and bite the bullet and get on with it now? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Come back to it. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Come back. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, let me ask a 7 question about this. This is -- this is Hart Intercivic 8 somebody-somebody-somebody -- 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Company, program, 11 corporation, et cetera, so forth. Is this the only company 12 we're going to take a look at? I -- the reason I ask this, 13 because I hear my Commissioner friends around the state -- 14 everybody's going through the same thing, and they're always 15 talking about, well, we had -- we had Hart and had three 16 different companies in one afternoon, and took -- you know, 17 everybody's taking a look at two and three different 18 companies and their programs and their bids and that kind of 19 thing. And I just -- is this the only one we're going to 20 look at? 21 MS. PIEPER: I can't answer that for sure. I 22 don't know if -- right now, there -- to my knowledge, there 23 is only four vendors that are certified by the state. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right. 25 MS. PIEPER: Two of which I do not like. 4-11-05 92 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Gets us down to two. 3 MS. PIEPER: The other one which I do not 4 think will meet our needs. I think it will cost more in the 5 long run. And then we have this one. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Are we required 7 by law in any way to take bids? 8 MS. PIEPER: This company is with the 9 state -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Purchasing? 11 MS. PIEPER: -- purchasing. Therefore, we 12 will not have to go out for bids. And this will meet our 13 needs not only for now, but long-term. The other one that I 14 had halfway considered will meet our needs for a short time, 15 but I don't think it will meet our needs for the long term. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner, if my 17 recollection serves me correctly, when we were at the 18 meeting in Odessa, the -- there was an effort underway to 19 try and get all of these approved vendors on a state 20 contract basis so that each jurisdiction was able to go 21 straight to that vendor and be able to deal with any one of 22 them on a state contract basis without having to take bids. 23 Was that what you were wanting to point out, Mr. Tomlinson? 24 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes, it was. In fact, I just 25 had a conversation with Dan Glotzer, who is the lead person 4-11-05 93 1 in the HAVA grant, and that was the information he gave me, 2 that there -- that the Secretary of State's office is 3 currently in negotiation with all those -- all those vendors 4 to get them under the Texas Procurement Law. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: The timeline, as I recall, at 6 the Odessa meeting was that they hoped to have all those 7 state contracts in place this month, is my recollection. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Also, we learned in 9 Odessa that the state supplemental budget had been approved, 10 and there is additional funding for this purpose. And so 11 I'm interested to know how much more that provides for us 12 over and above what we were told to begin with. 13 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't think -- I don't 14 think the -- Commissioner, I don't think they know that 15 amount yet. From my conversation with -- with that 16 gentleman, they -- I don't think they really know for sure. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, the gentleman 18 from the Secretary of State's office who spoke to us for an 19 hour about this matter seemed to be pretty certain that 20 those funds were in Austin, had been drawn down from the 21 feds for this purpose. There was a supplemental budget, and 22 that every jurisdiction who has to do whatever that we have 23 to do is entitled to additional funding, and the funds are 24 available. That's what we were told. 25 MS. PIEPER: There's supposed to be a way we 4-11-05 94 1 can go on the web and check that; however, I have not 2 checked it yet to see how much our additional funding is. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Didn't I send you a memo on 4 that, or give you a call or something on it? I know I had a 5 note to do that. Maybe I didn't. 6 MS. PIEPER: I don't remember. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay. Well, let's -- 8 let's pass over that for the immediate time being and go on 9 to Item Number 12, consider and discuss the approval of 10 contract for medical health services. Ms. Harris. 11 MS. HARRIS: Yes, sir. This is the contract 12 that we tabled at our last Commissioners Court meeting 13 because the final revision had not been completed by the 14 County Attorney. This is the final revision of that 15 contract for health services that are -- we are required to 16 have a medical health authority, and so this is the 17 finalized contract that the County Attorney has -- has come 18 up with. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Medical health 20 authority is in the person of a doctor or a nurse, or both? 21 MS. HARRIS: The doctor that we use -- the 22 pediatrician that we use, which is Dr. Meriwether. Suzanne 23 Edwards is our R.N. nurse that represents him as the medical 24 health authority for us, and she represents him. And we're 25 allowed to do that. 4-11-05 95 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Her name goes in the 2 provider line? Her name? Or his? 3 MS. HARRIS: His name. His name. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: His name? 5 MS. HARRIS: His name, yes, sir. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And then if, for some 7 reason, you decide to change, this contract would stay the 8 same. Basically, we'd just change doctors? 9 MS. HARRIS: Yes, sir. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How have you come up with 11 Dr. Meriwether? Not that I have anything against 12 Dr. Meriwether. I'm just curious. 13 MS. HARRIS: He was in place when I came to 14 the facility as the doctor, and Ms. Edwards, the R.N. nurse, 15 works for him full-time, and then she comes out to the 16 facility of an afternoon. That was already set in place 17 when I came to the facility. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Your experience is 19 that he's provided the services you need? 20 MS. HARRIS: Yes, sir. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: As needed? 22 MS. HARRIS: He's been very accommodating, in 23 that sometimes -- for example, we had a child last week that 24 Ms. Edwards had been treating for a sore throat, and she 25 finally said, "He really needs to go see the doctor," and we 4-11-05 96 1 had him in the very next day. Dr. Meriwether is very 2 accommodating about seeing our kids on a short notice basis. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval of the 4 contract for health services. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 6 MR. EMERSON: May I make one comment real 7 quick? I wasn't under the impression that the actual 8 contract was supposed to be with the physician, and the 9 nurse worked for the physician. So, on that basis, I think 10 it's probably more appropriate to have a separate contract 11 for the nurse and the doctor, so that you can insure 12 licensing and insurance and everything else that goes along 13 with it. Unless Dr. Meriwether -- unless Dr. Meriwether is 14 willing to stand -- we can tweak Paragraph 2 if 15 Dr. Meriwether is willing to stand pat that his nurse is 16 fully licensed and covered by malpractice insurance. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, you're suggesting 18 we have a separate document for each? 19 MR. EMERSON: Correct. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This would be for the 21 medical director. 22 MR. EMERSON: And I would presume that we're 23 not paying Dr. Meriwether the same rate that we're paying 24 the nurse. 25 MS. HARRIS: Correct. We're not paying him 4-11-05 97 1 at all. 2 MR. EMERSON: Which is one set rate in here. 3 MS. HARRIS: We don't pay him to be our 4 medical health authority. We don't pay him. We pay her the 5 $35 an hour to come out to the facility, provide the medical 6 services that we're required to have, as a representative of 7 the medical health authority. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Now I'm confused. So 9 this really would be for the nurse practitioner? 10 MR. EMERSON: That's the way this contract's 11 written. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Second paragraph 13 provides, "Whereas, Provider is licensed as a registered 14 nurse..." 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: So this particular contract 17 would be with the nurse, unless I missed something here. 18 MR. EMERSON: That's the way it's written all 19 the way through. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So it's not 21 Dr. Meriwether; it's somebody else. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ms. Edwards. What's 23 her first name? 24 MS. HARRIS: Suzanne. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Suzanne. Well, I can 4-11-05 98 1 tell you, both of these people are excellent, excellent 2 people. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My only -- my question 4 was as to Dr. Meriwether. There's lots of doctors, and I 5 don't know how we figured out -- you know, this compensation 6 here, this $35, is for the nurse. But, I mean, this may 7 be something we'd want to go out for bid at some point to 8 try to -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's free. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's free. 11 MS. HARRIS: We don't pay him. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can't get any better 13 than free. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: When there's an office 15 visit, we don't give any money? 16 MS. HARRIS: The placing county pays for that 17 office visit. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, I mean, there's 19 money changing hands, and the more we can save, the better 20 it is. Whether -- 'cause when our kids go out there, I 21 mean, they're going to a doctor, and that doctor -- If we 22 can get a -- I mean, there's clinics around. I mean, I 23 think we should try to get the best health care at the 24 lowest cost. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I think the -- the distinct 4-11-05 99 1 advantage in this particular arrangement is that, because 2 Ms. Edwards is one of Dr. Meriwether's nurses, the 3 continuity of care is -- is seamless. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Makes sense. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: And it -- continuity of care 6 is seamless, plus you've got the access issue. I dare say 7 if one of us were to have a severe sore throat, we may have 8 a hard time getting in to see a doctor tomorrow. I don't 9 think I could. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, you probably 11 couldn't; you're a lawyer. But I -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I could. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- I could probably 14 get in. 15 MS. HARRIS: I do know that Kerr County 16 Probation Department -- if it's one of their kids, a Kerr 17 County kid, I know that Kerr County Probation Department 18 comes and gets their kids, or either they ask us to 19 transport the kid to another physician. We've had to do -- 20 we've had to do that for Kerr County. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Kerr County kids don't go 22 to a doctor? They go to a different -- Kerr County kids 23 don't go to Dr. Meriwether? 24 MS. HARRIS: Not every time, no, sir. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: In some cases, they do? 4-11-05 100 1 MS. HARRIS: Some cases they do, some cases 2 they don't. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Question of the 4 County Attorney. Do we need a separate contract with 5 Dr. Meriwether? 6 MR. EMERSON: If he's going to provide the 7 medical services for the county, I would say yes. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 9 MR. EMERSON: It needs to be very clear that 10 he's an independent contractor and not an employee of the 11 county in order to protect the county. 12 MS. HARRIS: Would we do that even though we 13 -- we don't pay him? He's just named as the -- as the 14 health authority? 15 MR. EMERSON: I would say yes. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're responsible for the 17 kids, and we're choosing what doctor they go to. 18 MS. HARRIS: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, would the 20 contract for Dr. Meriwether be essentially the same as this? 21 MR. EMERSON: Essentially the same. Same 22 terms and conditions. We could change the paid section if 23 they're being paid by their guardian or conservator, 24 whoever's responsible for them. If that's -- this is about 25 where the medical expenses are coming from, we can change 4-11-05 101 1 the contract to reflect that. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So it would be -- 3 MR. EMERSON: That's providing services 4 coming to our facility, but as an independent contractor for 5 the patient. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. So we can 7 approve the one for the registered nurse, and 8 Dr. Meriwether's -- you will provide that one. You will 9 provide that one? 10 MR. EMERSON: Yes, sir. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: As provided by the 12 County Attorney. That would be the sense of my motion, 13 Judge. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 15 MR. EMERSON: And, just for the Court's 16 information, $35 an hour for a registered nurse for contract 17 services is dirt cheap. I think the hospital's paying 18 somewhere around the tune of $80 to $90 an hour. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's why we want to 20 take it real quick. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 23 approval of this contract as to the contract nurse, and the 24 subsequent contract to be approved by the County Attorney 25 for the physician. Any question or discussion? 4-11-05 102 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Judge, who 2 signs off on this thing? You? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And authorize County 4 Judge to sign same. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And him, huh? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, County Judge. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. With that authorization 8 also included? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 11 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 12 your right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Next 17 item is Number 13, discuss and consider rescinding Court 18 Order Number 25722, and approve a new court order for Agenda 19 Request Rules for Commissioners Court. Commissioner 20 Baldwin. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. This is 22 just an issue -- it's kind of a cleanup that I thought that 23 we had done a couple of years ago, and I'm sorry I don't 24 have that date -- January 11, 1999, when we adopted the 25 rules for the Commissioners Court. And I thought -- there 4-11-05 103 1 was one item in there that's not, and that's what we're 2 doing. We're rescinding the old order and creating a new 3 order. Everything is exactly the same, only we're adding a 4 Number 7, which says, "The Court Coordinator/Administrative 5 Assistant has the authority to reject agenda requests if the 6 above rules have not been followed." That's all there is to 7 this. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a motion. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 11 approval of the new proposed court order. Any question or 12 discussion? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I would like to -- I'm 14 sorry, I'm not prepared. There was a -- there was -- wait a 15 minute, it may be this one here -- yeah. To give you an 16 example, the reason that we need this is Item Number 1, this 17 purchase of the land from the Juvenile Detention Facility. 18 Looking at this over the weekend -- well, to be honest with 19 you, I don't know much more now than I did over the weekend, 20 but I had no -- I didn't have a clue what this was about. I 21 couldn't tell if we were buying or selling. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I thought we were buying 23 until we came in here this morning. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Didn't know. So, this 25 gives Kathy now the authority to say, "Wait a minute, these 4-11-05 104 1 guys need more information to make a decision." That's all 2 this is. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Makes sense. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And, also, if Kathy can 5 send this out to all elected officials and department heads 6 and everyone else and say, you know, that -- you know, this 7 -- we intend to go by this. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Just one caveat. 10 Now that -- since 1999, we've moved into the information 11 age. Some of my requests may not have an initial on it 12 because it's transmitted by e-mail, but it comes from my 13 e-mail, so Kathy knows where it's coming from. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 15 discussion on the motion? All in favor of that motion, 16 signify by raising your right hand. 17 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. The 21 next item is Number 14, consider and discuss Commissioners 22 Court organizational chart. Commissioner Letz? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I asked Kathy to contact, 24 you know, the various departments and kind of basically put 25 together an organizational chart of who reports to us. I 4-11-05 105 1 have a -- I had kind of a gut feeling that it's running a 2 little bit looser than I would like, and I think things are, 3 you know, not necessarily falling into the cracks, but I 4 don't see as much accountability as I would like with some 5 of the departments, and knowing what's going on and things 6 of that nature. And when Kathy provided this, which shows 7 that we have eight departments and 102 employees reporting 8 to us, I got real concerned. We have almost half the County 9 employees reporting straight to this Commissioners Court 10 through -- through departments that we control. And I just 11 -- I don't really have a solution right now, but I think 12 that there are -- we are currently, I guess, using liaisons, 13 kind of a loose structure. But, as an example, I don't know 14 when the last time we had something come in here from the 15 Collections Department. Probably not since the last budget 16 time. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Budget time. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, budget. Miguel 19 comes in. We get monthly reports from departments, but, I 20 mean, that's not -- we don't have a whole lot of 21 interaction. So -- Miguel's here whenever we ask him to be, 22 but I'm just concerned that we need a better system of 23 meeting with our department heads on a regular basis to find 24 out what's going on in our departments. And some of them we 25 have good communication with, some we have very poor 4-11-05 106 1 communication with right now. I just put it on the agenda 2 kind of to get everyone thinking about it. I don't know 3 that we can resolve anything today, but it is a concern that 4 I have. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just thought I'd put it 7 on the agenda and see if anyone has any ideas on how we want 8 to proceed, or -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm glad you did it. 10 I was shocked when I saw 102 employees. Whoa, that's a lot 11 of folks. It may be -- you know, I see two different ways 12 to do the thing. And I agree with you that we -- we need to 13 -- we need to keep a closer eye on things that we're 14 responsible for. It could be added into the information 15 agenda at the end of our meetings, or we could have a 16 separate meeting with nothing but department heads so we can 17 have a dialogue back and forth. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: As I look at this, I 19 see four departments that we routinely hear from. We hear 20 from Mr. Trolinger, who's new, and was advised that we 21 wanted to hear routinely. Road and Bridge prepares a 22 monthly summary of activities which we all get. Whether we 23 read it or not, we get it. Miguel prepares a report. I'm 24 not sure it's monthly, but it certainly is periodical. And 25 Ms. Harris, by direction, provides us with a report on the 4-11-05 107 1 activities at the Juvenile Detention Center. Which means 2 50 percent of -- of the employees and their departments, 3 four of them we don't hear from very often, unless they have 4 a real problem or it's budget time. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we get the 6 monthly reports, but I'm not sure -- that's really not what 7 I'm getting at. The numbers don't tell me much. I mean, I 8 think that -- you know, certainly, I can go down and -- I'll 9 pick on Miguel, 'cause he's sitting right in front of me. I 10 can ask Miguel, "How's everything going?" But that's kind 11 of -- you know, what are you -- what are your needs going to 12 be next year? You know, how are employees doing? What's 13 the feedback you're getting from... Those things aren't 14 answered in numbers we get in a monthly report. And I -- I 15 really think, you know, what I see is probably some sort of 16 a pretty structured -- maybe one month, meet with the top, 17 you know, four department heads, and the next month meet 18 with -- and have them come into the Commissioners Court 19 meeting, or on a separate day. I'd rather do it on a 20 regular Commissioners Court meeting. I know it becomes a 21 problem because the Judge is scheduled at 3 o'clock, but 22 maybe that can be changed. I mean, I think if we had a set 23 time that -- I don't think they should sit around and wait 24 all day for us to get to the agenda item. I think it needs 25 to be more of a timed item, and just really sit down and 4-11-05 108 1 have a discussion with them. 2 Another option may be to -- you know, I don't 3 think I like this option a whole lot, but expand the liaison 4 authority a little bit more, give each of the 5 Commissioners -- you know, assign them more into the 6 departments and give them more authority to do things. One 7 that comes to mind is maintenance. You know, there are 8 things that I see that need to be done. You know, talking 9 to Commissioner Baldwin, he sees things occasionally, but 10 we -- really, we mention them, but I think we need more 11 planning. I think we need more input into what is being 12 done, what's fixed when, you know, what's our long-term 13 maintenance schedule on repainting all these buildings that 14 we own. So, I just think there's a -- a lot of it's 15 communication. And monthly reports are good, but it's 16 pretty much numbers; we don't see a whole lot what's going 17 on there. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't disagree with 19 where you're coming from. And I -- and looking at this, it 20 prompts a question of Ms. Davidson. We have nine employees 21 listed under Mr. Holekamp for facilities and maintenance. 22 Included in that nine -- is Parks Maintenance included 23 within the framework of these nine employees? 24 MS. DAVIDSON: Yes. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Those who formally 4-11-05 109 1 take care of parks? 2 MS. DAVIDSON: Yes. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think a positive 5 thing that would happen from a face-to-face dialogue is it 6 would cause something that we've been trying to do for many 7 years, and that is to encourage department heads to do a 8 little more planning, looking down the future. And not only 9 this budget year, but look -- look out two or three years, 10 that kind of thing. I just -- I think it would be real, 11 real healthy, and that would be a tool to use to get that 12 done, I think. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm real glad to see 14 it on the agenda. And I don't -- like the rest of you, I 15 don't have any magic solutions, but I do think that it 16 deserves a little more routine attention, 'cause we need to 17 be a little more careful about accountability and reporting, 18 and -- and we can find some ways to do that. I don't know 19 exactly what they are. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I'll probably put 21 on it the next agenda again. Maybe we can think about it a 22 little bit and figure out a -- a plan. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: A scheme or method of getting 24 more information, better communication. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And, I mean, I'm leaning 4-11-05 110 1 probably to recommend we go something like some sort of a 2 regular, you know, every other month meeting with department 3 heads. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Judge, I noticed on 5 there, like, our department isn't even part of that, 'cause 6 we don't technically report, but I would think that we 7 should be because of our amount of budget and that. I think 8 y'all have the right to know exactly what I have going as 9 far as whether it be courthouse security, jail, or Sheriff's 10 Office, and all three of those budgets. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, Rusty, the 12 reason I did it this way is that your department reports to 13 you, and then you -- and you are -- you're an independent 14 elected official. Clearly, your budget has ramifications 15 throughout the county, and it's the same with Ms. Rector 16 back here, you know. They're independent. They're elected 17 by the public. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I agree, and I'm not 19 trying to dilute that. I -- so, just when it comes to 20 county budget time, just like I've spoken to you and -- and 21 the Judge about some things maybe coming up in this next 22 year's budget or where we're trying to go. And so, to me, 23 if we keep that open, I come in when I want to and visit and 24 talk with the Judge or you as the liaison. But it might be 25 nice to be able to have the opportunity also to explain that 4-11-05 111 1 to the entire Court, let everybody know where we're working. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think what we could do 3 is, any elected official that wants to come in and give us a 4 report or discuss something going on in their department, 5 you know, I think it's up to them to come to us and say, 6 hey, let's -- we'd like to have an hour 30 minutes and 7 discuss what's going on, you know. 'Cause that's -- 8 clearly, every elected official has that ability to do that. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, and we routinely have on 10 our agenda reports of elected officials -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: -- and department heads that 13 gives them that opportunity. But if there's a particular 14 item of interest that is going to impact the overall county 15 picture, why, we certainly need to know about that as far in 16 advance as possible, of course. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we've -- the 18 problem I have is with the item you talked about on the 19 agenda, we've never had a report from elected -- I mean, 20 other than from ourselves. I mean, and usually ours are 21 quick because we're exhausted at the end of the day. That's 22 why I think we need a, you know, better mechanism. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's right. And 24 there's also essentially the fact that we don't want these 25 department heads sitting around in here for six hours till 4-11-05 112 1 they get their turn to make a report. We've got four or 2 five of them in here right now. So, we need a better way of 3 organizing this -- this feedback and communications. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, I think that's it. 5 It will be on the agenda again. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Good. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. Let's move on 8 to the next item, being Item 15, to consider and discuss 9 automobile insurance requirements for all county employees 10 that use personal vehicles. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I put this on the agenda 12 after visiting with the County Attorney briefly, and he had 13 some concerns, and as we started talking, I started having 14 concerns. And our court coordinator got with Tommy and got 15 the -- the basic -- what is covered currently under our 16 insurance, and then I got more concerned. And I think the 17 -- I mean, the issue is, when we're using a county vehicle, 18 boy, we're in good shape. The problem is, so much of the 19 time we're using personal vehicles. And I'm not as 20 concerned, really, with the elected officials, 'cause we 21 have some other policies and coverages, but, for example, if 22 I was to ask Ms. Mitchell to go over to City Hall and pick 23 up a -- you know, something with the airport -- airport 24 minutes, who knows what it could be, I think we have a 25 mechanism for her to get reimbursed for use of her personal 4-11-05 113 1 vehicle, but what if something happens? That's what came to 2 my mind, as to what's covered. And as I understand our 3 current policy, the County's covered from a liability 4 standpoint, but there's no vehicle coverage anywhere. And 5 there's a question on bodily injury, as I read the -- this 6 policy. I think -- and I just think that we have a lot of 7 potential exposure there. And what if, you know, 8 Ms. Mitchell doesn't have anything, and then she goes out 9 and we ask her to -- you know, I've asked her to go do 10 something and she doesn't have insurance, and she happens to 11 have an accident? Well, then, you know, we have a county -- 12 a person doing county business in an uninsured vehicle. We 13 have no requirement that our employees have insurance. So, 14 I just think that it -- when Rex brought it up to me 15 originally, I think, you know, it just became a concern. 16 I'll probably turn it over to him, I mean, a little bit, or 17 ask for his input. What do we need to do to protect 18 ourselves better? Or is this really not as big an issue as 19 I think it may be? 20 MR. EMERSON: Well, I think the proper answer 21 to that would be talk to your insurance agent. I'm not an 22 insurance expert. But it is a concern, because the vehicles 23 aren't covered -- personal vehicles are not covered under 24 this policy, from what I can tell. There's some question on 25 bodily injury coverage. There's an issue of if I ask one of 4-11-05 114 1 my employees to go to the bank, I don't -- I don't know 2 theoretically if they've maintained their vehicle properly, 3 if their vehicle's insured. You know, all those things can 4 come back to bite us. And I think there's some case law out 5 there, even though we're protected to an extent under the -- 6 the tort act, that if we allow a condition that's negligent 7 or grossly negligent to continue, or we just turn a blind 8 eye to it, pretend like it's not there, they can jump up and 9 we have liability for it. My concern, and what I'd 10 originally approached Jonathan about, was that we have 11 employees from all these different departments going to the 12 bank, the post office, going one place or another every day, 13 but if you look around the courthouse, there's half a dozen 14 county vehicles sitting here at any one time, and what was 15 the possibility of getting access to a county vehicle to run 16 those errands? And that's where this all originated from. 17 And then the liability grew from there. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Have you read -- have 19 you read this auto liability coverage form that, I guess, 20 was provided by the Auditor's office? 21 MR. EMERSON: Briefly. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It talks about 23 throughout the document, the words "named member" -- and 24 this is the TAC policy -- "named member" and "named members" 25 refer to the governmental unit. So, when they talk about a 4-11-05 115 1 named member, they're talking about Kerr County. And, so, 2 down in this thing on who is covered, it says, "The 3 following are covered persons: The named member" -- Kerr 4 County -- "for any automobile." Now, does that mean what I 5 think it means? That that would be any county automobile 6 and any automobile that a county employee is using in the 7 conduct of Kerr County's business? That's the question. 8 MR. EMERSON: I don't think so. 9 MR. TOMLINSON: That's for liability 10 purposes. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's liability only. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. You don't 13 think so? 14 MR. EMERSON: I think it's liability only, if 15 at all. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what this is, 17 liability coverage. 18 MR. EMERSON: Yeah. And if you go to the 19 back page -- or Page 2 and you look at coverage for what a 20 covered auto is, unless it's listed in the County's 21 documents, as I'm reading it on presentation of the policy, 22 you don't have anything at all. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: And my conversation with TAC 24 was that they -- they cover only scheduled vehicles, because 25 you have -- they have to know what the value of the vehicle 4-11-05 116 1 is before they can adequately cover it. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, what vehicles 4 do we give them for -- to be in the schedule? 5 MR. TOMLINSON: Every county vehicle is 6 scheduled. There -- there are situations that if we lease 7 equipment or we lease a vehicle for an extended period, 8 we -- we will call them and get additional coverage for that 9 individual vehicle. If we lease it or borrow it, however we 10 acquire it, if we -- if we have extended use of it, we do 11 get additional coverage for that vehicle. But on an 12 ordinary day-to-day basis -- for one day, for instance, we 13 would not do that. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, what does that do 15 for members of this Court or any other elected official who 16 does not have or have access -- use or have access to a 17 county vehicle and uses his or her own vehicle in the 18 pursuit of Kerr County's business? Where does that leave 19 them? 20 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, their -- the vehicle is 21 uninsured. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Wonderful. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the other issue is 24 that if you're in an accident and get hurt, I mean, you're 25 covered, you know, under the County's health insurance, but 4-11-05 117 1 you're still responsible for the deductible. And if you 2 have a -- 3 MR. TOMLINSON: Commissioner, I think you're 4 covered under worker's comp. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Worker's comp? 6 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. And there's no 7 deductible to the insurance. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Worker's comp, 9 okay. That's better. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, raising this 11 issue is good. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think one of the 13 questions that Rex had earlier to me is that, you know, if, 14 you know, the District Clerk has someone go to the bank for 15 her one day, and that vehicle's in bad repair and has an 16 accident, then there may be all kinds of liability because 17 it's -- you know, there could be a negligent claim against 18 the County for using a vehicle that's not properly 19 maintained, or may not be insured at all. We have no -- you 20 know, state law says it should be insured, but that doesn't 21 necessarily mean that it is insured. And if their -- if her 22 vehicle gets damaged, it's not covered anywhere right now, 23 except under her own insurance. I mean, potentially. But I 24 think there could be some issues as to that as well. 25 MR. TOMLINSON: There's another issue 4-11-05 118 1 about -- about an employee using their own vehicle on a 2 regular basis for -- for their job. We've encountered this 3 before with -- with constables when -- in years past, when 4 we did not furnish vehicles for constables. And the result 5 of it was that -- that the County agreed to pay -- to 6 reimburse the constable for the coverage, or the additional 7 coverage -- or the additional premium that was required by 8 his own carrier. In other words, if he had insurance on his 9 personal vehicle, the regular personal coverage does not 10 cover it for use in another business, so the constable had 11 to get additional insurance for his own vehicle to use it 12 for business purposes. So, at that time, the County agreed 13 to reimburse the -- the individual for that additional 14 coverage. So, I -- I do know that -- that there could be -- 15 and I don't know how all the policies are written, but I 16 suspect that I could not -- I could not get additional 17 coverage for my vehicle if -- if I were going to use it for 18 business purposes on a regular basis. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- that's another 20 point I really hadn't thought of, is that the -- you know, 21 I'm not sure that -- 22 MR. TOMLINSON: So I'm not sure that -- that 23 an individual could even cover their personal vehicle for -- 24 for that purpose. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think you can do it, 4-11-05 119 1 but you have to claim it. And I suspect that probably every 2 elected official in this county claims their personal -- 3 does not claim their personal vehicle as a business vehicle. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Probably right. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think if you're -- 6 is there any coverage at all for elected officials or 7 department heads on using their vehicles? Because, you 8 know, a lot of what I do -- I mean, it's hard-pressed for me 9 not to be on county business when I'm driving up and around 10 the county. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Same here. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, you know, I think 13 it's just -- I don't know. Again, I have lots of questions 14 today, but not a whole lot of answers. This was an issue, 15 and Rex brought it up, that got me concerned, and I put it 16 on it the agenda, did a little bit of research. I don't 17 know if we need to get TAC's representative down here, or -- 18 we need someone knowledgeable in insurance. I think maybe 19 that's the first approach, is we can ask them these 20 questions, and maybe they can say, "Yes, you are exposed," 21 or, "No, you're not," from an insurance standpoint. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now what? 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: There's 254 counties 24 in Texas. Somebody has probably already solved the problem. 25 We need to find out who that is through TAC or somebody, 4-11-05 120 1 and -- 2 MR. TOMLINSON: From my conversation with our 3 -- our rep in TAC did not offer any solution. I didn't 4 really dig into whether or not there was a solution. But, I 5 mean, I'd be willing to ask. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why don't we -- you know, 7 either, Tommy, you or Ms. Mitchell can contact our TAC 8 representative and just have them come to our next meeting, 9 and then we can, you know, ask them these questions and ask 10 them, maybe, how do other counties handle it? I mean, TAC 11 certainly covers a large number of counties. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Specifically the insurance 13 rep, you're speaking of? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Insurance rep. 15 Insurance. I'm concerned about the insurance issue only at 16 this point. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think it would be 18 wise to put together a list of questions and send it to that 19 person prior to him coming down here so he can be prepared 20 to answer the -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think I can do that, 22 and we can get them by looking back through the minutes. We 23 can prepare that. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Very wise to ask TAC 25 to just come on down here and do it. That's what they do. 4-11-05 121 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Sounds like we've 2 got some exposure, so dealing with it's the right thing to 3 do. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: True. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else on that 6 particular item? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's it. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's move on to Item 9 16, consider and discuss Subdivision Rules and Regulations. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Let me hand out to 11 everybody a -- there's one for you, Rex, too, I think. 12 (Discussion off the record.) 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I looked at, you know, 14 the -- obviously, we've been doing a lot of work on 15 subdivision revisions, and I'm sort of looking at lot size. 16 This is kind of the fundamental of where we are about how we 17 start governing subdivisions, is lot size. And under 18 5.01.D, through the end of the document, there's quite a few 19 changes. And I don't think -- let me go over what the basic 20 changes are, and then people can read them; we can look at 21 them again. But what I started looking at is, we currently 22 have a 5-acre average for lot size. That's based on water 23 availability. The way it's currently written, I think it's 24 confusing. I hear that a lot. To me it's simple, but it 25 evidently is not to the public. 4-11-05 122 1 5.01.D.1 says, "The total number of lots 2 permitted in any subdivision that uses individual water 3 wells as the source of potable water shall not exceed the 4 total acreage in the subdivision divided by 5 acres." 5 That's currently what we have right now, and that's all we 6 have right now. I've added two others, and I put some 7 numbers here that I'm not recommending; these are just 8 talking points. Under 2, "The total number of lots 9 permitted in any subdivision that uses a community water 10 system as the source of potable water shall not exceed the 11 total acreage in the subdivision divided by 3 acres, unless 12 the subdivision is located within a designated high-density 13 area by the Commissioners Court; see Paragraph 5.01.I," 14 where I define that. And then 3 is, "The total number of 15 lots permitted in any subdivision in an area designated as a 16 high-density development area shall not exceed the total 17 acreage in the subdivision divided by 2." 18 What I've looked at in this is that there are 19 areas in the county where a 5-acre average doesn't make 20 sense. Community systems -- well, and, if you go in the -- 21 basically, the areas I defined are the ETJ of Ingram, the 22 ETJ of City of Kerrville, and then a 1-mile area around 23 Center Point and 1-mile area around Comfort. In these 24 communities, if we don't allow something more than a 5-acre 25 average, we're not going to allow any development of -- of 4-11-05 123 1 any kind of a density subdivision. You can't develop 2 something like Kerrville South on a 5-acre average; it won't 3 work. If you go to Comfort, if we don't allow -- and there 4 are a number of developments that want to come to Kerr 5 County. They cannot afford to do it with the price of the 6 land on a 5-acre average, especially when you can cross 7 Cypress Creek and go into -- into Kendall County, and you 8 can do them on half-acre lots, quarter-acre lots, because 9 you're under the water district in Comfort, which will 10 expand into Kerr County, or has the ability to expand into 11 Kerr County if the developer wants them to. 12 So, I think we need to allow some mechanism 13 to treat the current area around the towns and communities a 14 little bit differently, and go to a much higher density. 15 And there's a couple of logic for this, and this goes for 16 Items 2 and 3. One, when you're with a community water 17 system, those wells are going to start producing a lot, 18 which means they're going to be permitted wells. If there 19 were 15 connections, it's governed by T.C.E.Q. If there 20 were less than 15, the volume's going to get to a point it's 21 going to come under Headwaters' rules, and I think there's 22 some water control by other agencies on community water 23 wells. Secondly, Ingram, Kerrville, Center Point, and 24 Comfort, I think at some point in the moderate future, 25 probably the next 20 years, likely will all be hooked up to 4-11-05 124 1 surface water. There is some items that are working, either 2 bringing water from the east or from the west to connect 3 Center Point and/or Comfort to water, either out of 4 Kerrville coming out of the Guadalupe, or out of Canyon Lake 5 coming up through Boerne. So, I think -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Inter-basin transfer? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's an inter -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's all the Guadalupe 10 Basin. All Guadalupe River. There's currently -- the 11 pipeline's currently under construction, or at least 12 permitted and funded to come from Canyon Lake to Boerne with 13 the surface water, and that uses that water that was 14 reallocated by G.B.R.A. four or five years ago. So, I think 15 there's a -- a likelihood of this whole Guadalupe valley 16 being hooked up through central water and central sewer, for 17 that matter, but water -- that is surface water, which 18 alleviates the issue of groundwater problems. So, I just 19 kind of looked at this and came up with some -- some 20 different ideas on how we look at subdivisions and changing 21 the averaging around a little bit. I think there's -- you 22 know, the science can back it up, and the long-term 23 direction we're going back in the county backs it up. And I 24 just toss it out for people to read it. 25 I mean, it's a lot to -- you have to go 4-11-05 125 1 through it very slowly and read it. I ask everyone to read 2 it and, you know, put it back in my box, or put it back on 3 the next agenda again, either way, and see what the -- what 4 the thought process is, you know. My goal is, once we can 5 get the Court kind of on the same page, then we can put it 6 out to the public and let the public have a lot of comments 7 to it. But I think we need to get kind of -- somewhat of a 8 meeting of the minds before we, you know, start putting 9 drafts out to the public. So, these are all for the public. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: High-density 11 development area. That's directly related to these 12 communities that you mentioned? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Which is ETJ or 15 1 mile? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, 1-mile area, which 17 is the same as the ETJ would be. I left Hunt off. I didn't 18 know if Hunt wanted high-density development out there. It 19 would likely -- based on what we did in Center Point and 20 Comfort, it's a little bit different community, obviously, 21 and it's also less likely to ever get tied to surface water. 22 I think the other areas where the water comes from Kerrville 23 or from the other direction will have surface water 24 available at some point. Then the other thing that -- go to 25 the last two paragraphs. 5.01.H is kind of expanded a 4-11-05 126 1 little bit on other developments, planned unit 2 developments -- first sentence -- and pretty much explicitly 3 say that those types of developments and condominiums are 4 subject to our rules. And then it goes on to say that some 5 of the provisions may be not applicable, and we can discuss 6 those on a case-by-case basis. And on commercial 7 developments, pretty much the same thing. Commercial 8 developments are subject to Kerr County Subdivision Rules, 9 but they need to be looked at on a case-by-case basis from 10 thea lot size, and that's based on utilities. But, anyway, 11 it's handed out for everyone to read. I went over some of 12 the changes and ideas, and look forward to feedback at our 13 next meeting. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I noticed you also 15 tweaked 5.01.E. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which has to do with 18 a lesser land requirement for planned developments that have 19 both a public water system and a community sewage collection 20 system. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And I think -- at 23 first reading of that, I think I like what I see as an 24 improvement over what we already have. So, I'll look at it 25 again. 4-11-05 127 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And, again, all of the 2 acreage numbers, I really -- you know, I'm not sure that I 3 would think that the -- you know, half acre may not be the 4 right size. Maybe it's 1 acre still, maybe it's a quarter 5 acre. You know, I just think that if someone's going to go 6 to the expense of putting in a central sewer system, I 7 think, you know, there's a lot of things can be done a 8 little bit differently. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You do have to remember 11 that you have to meet D & E requirements. D is the total 12 acreage and subdivision requirements to do the type of 13 development, and E sets the individual lot sizes in that 14 development. They're not either/or. I mean, you have 15 to -- 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm having trouble 17 understanding you. Just -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- plug me in; lead 20 me into it there. D says that, for example, if you've got 21 60 acres total development, then you divide it by 3, and 22 that would give you 20? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 20 lots. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: 20 lots. How does 25 that fit with E.2 that says you can have 1-acre lots? 4-11-05 128 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You can have 1-acre lots, 2 and then the rest of the area be a designated nondevelopment 3 area, such as greenbelt. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: One's total number 5 of lots; the other one deals with minimum -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Minimum lot size. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There is a proposal, 8 which I think you and I talked about, in Precinct 2, which a 9 -- a developer proposes to take a parcel of land in 10 Kerrville South and develop it. They'd like to have the 11 higher density consideration, because he already has 12 community water through Kerrville South Water Company, and 13 he would propose to hook it into the sewer system that we're 14 developing down there. So, he would have to satisfy D.3 -- 15 no, D -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: D.3. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: D.3 as well as E.3 -- 18 5.01.E.3, correct? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: E.3 or E.4. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: E.3 or E.4, okay. 21 Okay. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: If we did it just 23 like that -- I know it's on paper for discussion -- would it 24 relax the -- would it allow more development than we 25 currently allow? 4-11-05 129 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not much. It doesn't 2 change it a whole lot. I mean, it does allow -- 'cause 3 under our current rules, the way they're written right now, 4 there's no minimum lot size. We're going back to a 1-acre 5 minimum lot size, so it does a little bit. It allows a 6 little bit higher density areas, and that's really the 7 biggest change. It does allow more development from a 8 density standpoint right around the cities. And I think 9 there's a -- you know, there's a lot of reasons that it 10 makes sense to encourage that. I mean, it -- one is that I 11 think we're about to -- you know, we're almost pricing real 12 estate out of the market and people can't afford it. And I 13 think that if we can do something to encourage that that 14 helps the environment, both with water and through the 15 septic systems, get them into community systems, that at 16 some point maybe it will be tied into sewage plants in 17 Comfort or Kerrville, and water off of surface water in 18 these high-density areas. I think it's justified, and I 19 think that the science backs this up. If you, you know, 20 just look at the cities, they're much higher density. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And right now, under our 23 current rules, if they're -- you know, and there in Center 24 Point's a good example. There are some tracts up by the 25 Little League field that are pretty -- you know, 30-, 4-11-05 130 1 40-acre tracts. We're pretty much saying you can't develop 2 that land. I mean, it's -- under our current rules, it's 3 almost impossible because of the cost of the land. And the 4 -- you know, we've -- the density is -- you know, we can do 5 the averaging, but still, if you only have a 5-acre average, 6 you can have four lots on 20 acres. Well, that doesn't work 7 in a city. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There are several 9 tracts like that in and around Center Point. You're 10 highlighting the one you go by all the time which is by the 11 Little League field there, but there are others off of 480 12 as well. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think this encourages 14 development around the communities rather than pushing the 15 sprawl further out, too, which I think is something which is 16 probably good. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's just an idea, a new 19 approach, new way of looking at some things. And we'll put 20 it back on the next agenda. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Anybody have anything further 22 to offer on that agenda item? Let's move on to Item 17, if 23 we might, consider and discuss Water Availability 24 Requirements. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Almost as -- we can do a 4-11-05 131 1 playback and do it in -- you know, say the same thing again. 2 This is water availability requirements, and this is a -- a 3 pretty significant change from what we currently have. And 4 this is as a result of a meeting that I had with -- had with 5 Gordon Morgan and Gene Williams, Gordon being President of 6 Headwaters, and Gene is their General Manager. And these 7 are -- these are -- it's a draft, but if the Court agrees 8 with this -- and it's more a matter of myself getting 9 together with Rex and doing the legal side of it to make 10 sure it all fits, but just from a philosophy standpoint, our 11 current -- our water requirement rules we currently have 12 require Headwaters to do a lot of work. There's wells 13 required for a new subdivision, test wells, and there's 14 testing requirements. And if there's a water system, I 15 envisioned they'll have to approve the water system. 16 Headwaters had a legal problem with that, 17 because there's nothing in the authority -- in the law that 18 gave the County authority to do this. Headwaters -- and 19 underground water districts are never mentioned, and they 20 were having -- it's a big question in their mind whether 21 they had authority to do what we told them to do. And I 22 probably agree with them. I mean, it's real. It's a very 23 gray area. And they were uncomfortable, and they weren't -- 24 they really were encouraging us to simplify everything. 25 What that does is pretty much say it's a 5-acre -- it's the 4-11-05 132 1 same lot size averages in our Subdivision Rules. And the 2 reason for doing that is, water availability is probably the 3 strongest legal way for us to regulate lot size. There's 4 some cases that have come down that give -- that make that 5 real clear. So, the closer we can tie our lot size to water 6 availability -- water availability requirements, I think the 7 stronger position we have legally. It also -- and I think, 8 you know, I cited the state water plan, Region J, Headwaters 9 rules, and T.C.E.Q. Those all give us a lot of authority in 10 those areas. 11 The other big change that -- well, anyway, 12 the draft presented here requires no test wells. Doesn't 13 mention well testing, period. If there's a well drilled on 14 a property, Headwaters has their own rules that require what 15 needs to be done with that well. This basically says that 16 if you're going to use individual wells, if you can meet 17 these average -- the averages of 5 acres, 3 acres, 2 acres, 18 you are deemed to have enough water based on the current 19 science in Kerr County. You don't have to do anything 20 further. If you're using a water system over 15 21 connections, you're subject to T.C.E.Q. If you're less than 22 15 connections, you got to provide the Court with licensed 23 engineer documents that show, one, the -- the design of the 24 facility is proper, and two, that there's sufficient 25 capacity to provide the service. And it puts it on the 4-11-05 133 1 private -- basically, on the developer and the engineer. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How do they -- how do 3 they come up with that there is enough capacity to provide 4 for the subdivision without a test well? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, they may have to. 6 It's up to the engineer that does the system for the 7 developer. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's not my problem. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think what happens 12 is, if you get into those situations to drill a well that's 13 going to be able to provide much water, it's going to be a 14 permanent well, and Headwaters has rules in place under 15 their rules for permanent wells. So, it's a much simpler 16 system than we had before. It's still based on the same 17 basic science that the state water plan has on the, you 18 know, amount of water, you know, recharge and all that stuff 19 that goes into how much water should be sufficient for an 20 individual water well. But, anyway -- 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, if you meet -- 22 1.02 talks about water availability requirements. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And essentially says 25 that you do -- if you meet 1.03, you're deemed to have 4-11-05 134 1 sufficient water -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- and you don't 4 have to go through this bureaucracy. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. And what you 7 know about those who know something about the availability 8 of water, this would be sufficient to protect the aquifer 9 and -- 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's the same as we have 11 currently on the 5-acre average. There's no change there. 12 And that was based on, you know, the amount of recharge 13 required to sustain 2.8 people on, you know, 200 gallons a 14 day per person. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We essentially -- 16 right now, we've got some bureaucratic processes that don't 17 add any value to protecting water. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct. We're requiring 19 test wells and we're requiring Headwaters to do a bunch of 20 stuff that they don't want to do and don't think they 21 legally can do, and they're costing developers. And, I 22 mean, there's been -- and I -- it's not that our previous 23 rules were bad. Headwaters has changed, is really what has 24 happened. Headwaters changed their rules substantially to 25 alleviate the need for us to have all the requirements that 4-11-05 135 1 we had previously. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There's always been an 3 argument over -- and I kind of argued it myself, of 4 requiring a developer to prove that there's water down 5 there. When, I mean, there's lots of folks that will say 6 that you can drill a hole anywhere in this part of the 7 country and you're going to hit water. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: At some depth. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: At some depth. I 10 don't know what the depths are, but there's water down 11 there. And -- and so here we are requiring people to spend 12 a ton of money to prove something that we already know. So, 13 I mean, you know, that's a pretty good argument. But I 14 think this gets us away from that. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You want to act on 16 this? Or -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- not at this 18 point. I really want to get with Rex to go over -- there is 19 some legal cites in here I need to get help on. If the 20 Court is comfortable with this by consensus, I'll proceed 21 down this road; we'll get a formal draft to go to the Court, 22 and then we'll also get that by Headwaters and out to the 23 public to look at. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I like it. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Commissioner, do 4-11-05 136 1 you see -- I'm sorry, Dave. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Go ahead. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Commissioner, do you 4 see a possible conflict here in the water availability 5 draft, 1.03 -- 1.03.3, where we talk about the number of 6 lots permitted in a subdivision where a high-density 7 subdivision would be divisible by two, do you see a conflict 8 there with our subdivision standards that you drafted under 9 5.01.E.3 and 4? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Divisible by three? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There may be a conflict 13 there, but my -- after writing these over the weekend and 14 looking at them this morning over my cup of coffee before I 15 came in, I think that we need -- my plan is to -- let me 16 look at the right copy here -- 5.01 -- on the subdivision 17 standards, 5.01.E, that language needs to be duplicated on 18 the water availability requirements. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. That would 20 take care of the conflicts, okay. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else on that 22 particular agenda item? Let's move to the next item, 23 consider and discuss status of Juvenile Board's internal 24 investigation of Kerr County Juvenile Detention Facility. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, if I might make -- 4-11-05 137 1 before we get to that, can I make one comment on water 2 availability? We're going in a -- I don't know if it's good 3 or bad -- in an opposite direction from some of our local 4 counties on that issue. Gillespie County has extremely 5 rigorous water availability requirements, to the point that 6 they have to go into a subdivision and determine what the 7 water availability is internally within a subdivision and 8 have -- and there's one subdivision where they are currently 9 mapping a fault line, and have one water amount on one side 10 of that subdivision and a different water availability 11 requirement on another side of the subdivision. And I -- 12 and Kendall County is not to that extreme, but there are a 13 lot -- they're stricter than our current ones are on all 14 that's required. And I think that it's -- when I started 15 reading those, it made me go further this direction, because 16 I just think it's not the Court's business. I think we have 17 water districts in these counties for a reason, and I think 18 that we need to work together and let them have their rules. 19 And I think it's a -- I really wonder how they are working 20 with their water districts and the Commissioners Court on 21 requiring all that stuff, and who has the legal authority to 22 require some of that. 23 But, anyway, we are going a different 24 direction. The net effect, I don't think, is a change. I 25 think we're both trying to -- all the counties around here 4-11-05 138 1 are trying to go to the same density, 'cause that's what 2 counties -- I think at one time, it was 5 -- one lot to 3 5-acre density, and I think Kendall County is one lot per 4 6-acre density. But they're requiring a whole lot more than 5 we are, which is -- I thought was kind of interesting that 6 we went pretty far, then we came -- now we're recommending 7 coming way back from where we were. They were much later in 8 getting water availability requirements than we were. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I like our way of 10 doing it better than I do theirs. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sorry, Judge. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's see if we can 13 quickly get another item here. Let's go to Item 18, 14 consider and discuss status of Juvenile Board's internal 15 investigation of the Kerr County Juvenile Detention 16 Facility. Commissioner Letz? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I put this on the agenda. 18 In our January meeting, we -- this was discussed, and 19 discussed in executive session. We're not going to go into 20 great depth on it. I was just curious. My recollection was 21 about a 60-day period it was thought to come back. That's 22 where we are. I thought I'd put on it the agenda to see 23 where we are. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I want to see if I 25 can shed some light on it for you. Commissioner Baldwin and 4-11-05 139 1 I have had meetings with two different accounting firms in 2 Kerr County for the purpose of discussing this issue, and -- 3 and finding out whether or not they would be interested in 4 undertaking an -- essentially, a management audit. Both 5 local firms have declined our invitation to give us a bid 6 for those services, believing that they would rather not do 7 so. Okay? So -- however, one of them did recommend some 8 smaller firms in San Antonio that might be interested in 9 providing those services to us, and I've been in touch with 10 one of them. And we attempted to set up a meeting prior to 11 the West Texas Judges and Commissioners meeting, and it 12 didn't work out. And we are at the tail end now of -- of an 13 audit company doing -- audit firm doing tax returns, and 14 they have other things on their agenda other than meeting us 15 to do that. So, Commissioner Baldwin and I have agreed to 16 meet with this recommended firm out of San Antonio as soon 17 as tax season has abated somewhat, and see where that takes 18 us. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the latest. 21 Anything else you want to add, Commissioner? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir. You hit the 23 nail on the head. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're actually giving 25 more information than I was looking for. I was looking for 4-11-05 140 1 the Judge and Juvenile Board's investigation. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me see if I can kind of 3 respond to that. At the conclusion of the meeting where the 4 issues were raised, I, of course, passed along those issues 5 that were raised to the members of the Board and the County 6 Attorney and the facility director. And, as I'm sure the 7 Court recalls, shortly after that, the Auditor indicated 8 that he felt like, you know, he had all the records 9 available and he would attempt to answer whatever questions 10 he had. The Court, of course, then inquired of him, and he 11 gave us a report. For whatever reason, the Court felt like 12 that was not adequate, and the direction was taken at that 13 particular time to pursue an outside audit, albeit something 14 that could maybe be attached onto our current outside county 15 audit that was underway, and I think there were some 16 discussions with that auditor. 17 The information that -- the factual 18 information and figures, the documented information, of 19 course, is -- that we have available to us is what the 20 Auditor has. Other than that -- I mean, of course, there 21 are subjective judgments that can be made, and those can be 22 done individually, and so we -- we have nothing beyond what 23 the Auditor has. But the thing did turn direction as to 24 looking towards an outside audit, and not knowing how that 25 was going to turn out, I -- I think there was a deferral on 4-11-05 141 1 the part of the Juvenile Board because of the -- the 2 apparent direction that the Court was looking. Since -- 3 since January, there have been a couple of meetings of the 4 Juvenile Board, as I recall, strictly for the purpose of -- 5 of addressing issues in connection with the County's 6 acquisition of that facility and doing whatever is necessary 7 there. So, that's all we did. Now, I have -- I have placed 8 that issue about what response, if any, the Board has with 9 regard to that question on the upcoming meeting of the 10 Juvenile Board, so -- I think that meeting is posted now, 11 isn't it? 12 MS. MITCHELL: Yes. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Do we want to try and 16 knock out some more before we get on down the road here? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we're going to be 18 back after lunch; I'd just as soon break. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, let's go eat. 21 We got to come back anyway. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Rector is asking for 23 permission to leave the room or join the room. 24 MS. RECTOR: Back to our agenda item, Bill 25 just called me, and Mr. Priour ordered us out. So, we 4-11-05 142 1 probably will be getting something formally in writing, so 2 we might need to kind of step up the program. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Talk to him. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Your lawyer's right -- right 5 there. 6 MR. EMERSON: Practically speaking -- 7 MS. RECTOR: He kind of ran Bill down and 8 stopped him and said -- and they're out there now cleaning 9 up the tar with diesel, so I've ordered Pam to close, 10 because it's just terrible. 11 MR. EMERSON: Practically speaking, we'll 12 have to be out by the end of May. It will -- he'll have to 13 give us 30 days, based on term, and we've already secured 14 the month of April, so -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You probably -- you may 16 want to send him a letter, Rex, to that effect. 17 MS. RECTOR: Mr. Holekamp's not available. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's take a look at the 19 lease. 20 MR. EMERSON: And the lease actually 21 expired -- I don't remember if it's 2001 or 2002. It was a 22 while back. For whatever reason, it was never reviewed or 23 investigated, but -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm just thinking -- 25 MR. EMERSON: -- they've been on a 4-11-05 143 1 month-to-month since that time. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My thought was having Rex 3 write him a letter. I just don't want him yelling and out 4 there causing problems with our employees, and so he's aware 5 that we're going to be out by that date and not before -- or 6 it's our choice if we're out before. And so he needs to 7 leave our employees alone. 8 MS. RECTOR: Well, and he may just be angry 9 because we've stepped it up. But -- 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: There's probably a 11 lot of issues. He may be in breach of the contract we have, 12 so we need to -- we need to decide what's best for us, and 13 get good advice on that. 14 MS. RECTOR: Yes. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Whatever you need to do. 16 MS. RECTOR: So, y'all were informed of the 17 latest. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Appreciate the update. Thank 19 you, ma'am. We will stand in recess until 1:30. 20 (Recess taken from 12:06 p.m. to 1:30 p.m.) 21 - - - - - - - - - - 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to 23 order. We were in recess for lunch, and scheduled to come 24 back at 1:30. It's just a bit past that now. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right on the dot. 4-11-05 144 1 JUDGE TINLEY: The next item on the agenda is 2 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to reappoint 3 Commissioner Jonathan Letz to a two-year term on the Joint 4 Airport Board effective June 1, 2005. While you were up, 5 Commissioner, the least could you do was salute. There you 6 go. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll second the 8 motion. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: When we formed the 10 Airport Board and its new representation, Commissioner Letz 11 and I drew straws, and I drew a two and he drew a one. And 12 the administrative assistant down at City Hall reminded us 13 that it's time for Commissioner Letz to get a new 14 appointment, so I'm putting his name in for a new two-year 15 appointment. So moved. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 18 approval of the agenda item to reappoint Commissioner 19 Jonathan Letz for a two-year term on the Kerrville/Kerr 20 County Joint Airport Board effective June 1, 2005. Any 21 question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify 22 by raising your right hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 4-11-05 145 1 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Lest 2 I get into trouble for running amuck here, let me go to the 3 timed 1:30 item. At this time, I will recess the 4 Commissioners Court meeting, and I will open a public 5 hearing on the proposed Kerr County nuisance abatement 6 program, public notice having been given of that program, 7 and ask if there's any member of the audience or the public 8 that wishes to be heard with regard to the proposed Kerr 9 County Nuisance Abatement Program. Seeing no one seeking 10 attention or otherwise moving towards the podium, I will -- 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You said anyone in 14 the audience. Now, there are members of the staff out there 15 who would like to speak to it. Is that going to be 16 permissible? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, certainly. Certainly. 18 They're members of the public as well as Kerr County 19 employees. I didn't mean to exclude you, -- 20 MR. ARREOLA: Okay. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: -- Mr. Arreola. I'm sorry. 22 MR. ARREOLA: Well, good afternoon, 23 gentlemen. I would like just to give you a quick report of 24 what -- what we've been doing in this division or 25 department. I got my original and nine copies. Is that 4-11-05 146 1 correct? I got plenty of copies. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, you're cute. 3 You're getting cute. All right. 4 MS. PIEPER: At least I got one. 5 MR. ARREOLA: You got one this time? Good. 6 So far this year, we have opened 55 cases on solid waste. 7 That's the report that have you in front of you. 23 of them 8 have been closed, and -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 55, 23. 10 MR. ARREOLA: 55 total, 23 still -- I mean, 11 have been closed, been resolved, and all of them have been 12 resolved internally. We haven't had to go to court or seek 13 any -- any other help to do it. The attorney's office have 14 been helping us a lot, you know, in all the cases. I would 15 like to thank Mr. Emerson, 'cause he's been a great help for 16 our department. But still, 32 pending. Last year we did 17 about 130 total the whole year, so this year we're doing 18 quite more than what we were doing last year. That's based 19 on we have extra staff. We have more researches to do our 20 job better. So I think this new program that is proposed is 21 going to help us a lot to continue and do better every day. 22 If you have any questions on that report? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Could you repeat those 24 numbers? Closed are 50 -- how many? 25 MR. ARREOLA: 23 of those 55 are already 4-11-05 147 1 closed. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's the remaining 4 -- what's that? 5 MR. ARREOLA: 32 remain pending. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Huh? 8 MR. ARREOLA: 32. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: 32. Total of 55 cases this 10 year. 11 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, sir. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 13 MR. ARREOLA: That's correct. Any other 14 questions on that? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: That's as of -- 16 MR. ARREOLA: The last day of -- last March. 17 Last day of March. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, 3/31. 19 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, sir. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 21 MR. ARREOLA: I went ahead and called it this 22 already, though it's -- we believe it's going to be 23 approved. We called it that name already. I'd also like to 24 tell you about the response from the community. There's -- 25 people have been calling us, and there's some also in the 4-11-05 148 1 paper; you might have got a copy of this letter to the 2 editor of the Kerrville Daily Times of April 2nd where a 3 member of the community thank us for what we've been doing. 4 Hope you got a copy. If not, I can get you a copy of it. 5 We also have some cases where we had to go to court. We 6 have to use -- or seek extra help. We have -- just an 7 example, one person was fined about $2,000 for illegal 8 dumping, and it was in Kerr County Court at Law last August. 9 So, cases like those is what Officer North help us a lot to 10 do. He manage all those difficult cases in court. We also 11 have Ray Garcia; he's a new inspector. He's been doing a 12 great job opening those, finding those cases, investigating 13 these complaints, and closing them, which is the main thing, 14 getting -- get them cleaned up. He might have a few 15 pictures to show you of what the before and after, to show 16 what basically we've been doing, how it used to look, how it 17 looks now. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Miguel, before you get to 19 that, I have a quick question. Where do most of the 20 complaints come from? 21 MR. ARREOLA: Well, you have in the report 22 also precincts. I think 4 and 1 are the ones that get the 23 most. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I was wondering, do they 25 come in from the Commissioners? 4-11-05 149 1 MR. ARREOLA: No, from the public. General 2 public. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, I mean, there's only, 4 looking at the list, one in my precinct on this list, and 5 that came from me, I believe. I'm just wondering if 6 there's -- it wouldn't be a good idea to do some education 7 in the Comfort and Center Point areas to explain to people 8 how to -- if they see a complaint, how -- what to do. 9 MR. ARREOLA: Sure. We're doing part of 10 that, too. We're doing -- whenever we meet someone, we tell 11 them all their options, where they can call. If they need 12 to contact the state, we give them all the numbers. And we 13 try to -- especially on illegal burning has been a 14 misunderstanding for a while. We're trying to educate the 15 community on what to do, what -- what's really illegal 16 burning, and what they can burn. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that approach may 18 be -- I know in Comfort, putting fliers out in some of the 19 businesses really helps to get information out. 20 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, sir. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 9-1-1 has done that on 22 some of the signage issues, and it's worked real well. You 23 may look at that, so as people see things or have questions, 24 they know who to contact. 25 MR. ARREOLA: Sure. 4-11-05 150 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 2 MR. ARREOLA: Okay. Well, share those 3 pictures. We might not give you addresses or names, but 4 it's just a -- 5 MR. GARCIA: What I have here, these are 6 examples of before and afters you guys can take a look at. 7 And some of them are illegal dumping cases that we've -- 8 Officer North and myself have came upon, and others are 9 actual complaints that the Kerr County residents have called 10 in, and we've gone out and tried to handle them at the 11 lowest level, again, without having to go to court, without 12 having to get citations. They also -- like Miguel said, we 13 instruct them and try to educate them on all the laws and 14 everything they can use that's at their disposal to get rid 15 of this stuff; recycling center, again, a list of haulers. 16 And you see some stuff in there from some abandoned 17 structures that are being taken care of now. Some illegal 18 dump -- illegal dumping that's going on right now that we 19 have a citation issued on. You see some of the stuff that 20 these people leave in the trash, how we get our information 21 from that. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You provide them with 23 a list of haulers? Did you say that? 24 MR. GARCIA: Yes, sir, a list of haulers. We 25 give them a handout from the recycling center. And then we 4-11-05 151 1 go over some of the laws that they are not familiar with as 2 far as illegal burning and, obviously, dumping on your own 3 property. Anything we can to take care of it at the lowest 4 level possible is what we're doing. And we do have -- these 5 are just a few examples, and we do have a lot more that are 6 actually finished and cleaned up, and have made a huge 7 difference. And if I could add, there's some of these 8 places that we've cleaned up where the citizens, neighbors 9 around them, once they see us there, they -- they're taking 10 it upon themselves; we don't have to go back. So we can 11 roll into this place for that one complaint, and on the way 12 in, we see five or six that -- that need to be taken care 13 of. Well, some of those neighbors, they see their other 14 neighbors cleaning up, and they're actually doing the right 15 thing with us there, and they're spreading the news to their 16 neighbors that we can give them education. We provide our 17 number so they can call us. So -- 18 JUDGE TINLEY: What about hazardous-type 19 materials, batteries and things of that nature? 20 MR. GARCIA: Same -- same situation. If they 21 have any kind of haz-mat, we'll go over the right way to 22 stow it or who to contact. Again, we give them the numbers 23 and all the information they need. If they're going to 24 store batteries, we tell them how to store their batteries, 25 you know. It might be they might be sitting on the ground. 4-11-05 152 1 We'll stop and let them know that they have to be sitting up 2 off the ground. Anything like that, haz-mat, paints, 3 household haz-mat, hazardous materials, they all are given 4 any kind of information they need to take care of that. 5 MR. ARREOLA: We also working pretty close 6 with the City of Kerrville. They have two events a year for 7 hazardous waste. We let the public know. And the county, 8 that is their event also; it's part of the county. The 9 facility is owned by the County; the City's operating it. 10 But they're working real good with us. So, a lot of people 11 save their stuff for that event. We going to have the next 12 one coming on May the 7th. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: We know far enough in advance 14 when those dates are that you can let these people know -- 15 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, sir. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: -- months in advance? 17 MR. ARREOLA: Mm-hmm. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 19 MR. ARREOLA: And we all participate in that 20 event that day as volunteers and help out. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you know what's being 22 taken in on May 7th? 23 MR. ARREOLA: Almost everything. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Batteries? 25 MR. ARREOLA: Batteries, tires, used oil, 4-11-05 153 1 paint. All -- almost all kinds of hazardous waste, which is 2 a big, big help. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You take both batteries, 4 like car batteries and those little batteries? 5 MR. ARREOLA: Yes. Mr. North also helps with 6 special cases. All his experience and all the goodies he 7 knows how to do. We depend a lot on his help. Sometimes 8 situations don't -- get a little bit dangerous, so he's the 9 one. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Pulls out his gun. 11 MR. NORTH: Well, my side of the coin is, 12 once again, we've been trying for voluntary compliance. 13 We've had a lot of luck there. We go to court as a last 14 resort. And, as you know, we've had a lot of luck this last 15 year in J.P. court and county court and in district court. 16 I assisted -- our department assisted some local people in a 17 civil suit against a gentleman in Commissioner Baldwin's 18 precinct, and finally managed to get an injunction on him. 19 And, like I say, in the county court, we've had a lot of 20 success. One man was fined $2,000 total for some illegal 21 acts. And J.P. court you don't hear about a lot, 'cause 22 it's all Class C misdemeanors. I write citations, and they 23 just go in there, pay a $250 fine, clean up their mess and 24 go on, so it never gets -- not a lot of publicity. We've 25 had a lot of success. 4-11-05 154 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Does it seem as though you're 2 having to issue citations less and less because the word is 3 now out that if you seek voluntary compliance and don't get 4 it, you will go forward and issue citations, and they will 5 be summoned to court? 6 MR. NORTH: In some instances, yes, sir. In 7 fact, a lot of times, if they see our truck in the 8 neighborhood, they'll call and say, "Well, I saw you out 9 here, but I'll go ahead and take care of -- I'll take care 10 of it. You don't need to..." And getting back to these 11 batteries, a while ago, as you know, the new law change, now 12 just sitting a battery on the ground is a Class B 13 misdemeanor. That's -- you know, I don't want to fill up 14 the Sheriff's jail with Class B misdemeanors, but we could 15 easily in this county. If somebody discards a 55-gallon 16 drum, it's a felony offense now. It's -- that's a -- the 17 laws are getting changed around a lot every day, and 18 serious. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Say that -- the 20 55-gallon drum again. 21 MR. NORTH: If someone discards that, it's 22 closed -- closed drum, but any kind of material in it -- 23 MR. ARREOLA: It could be water. 24 MR. NORTH: It could be -- it's a felony 25 offense. Because, number one, we don't know what's in the 4-11-05 155 1 drum. We don't even have to approach the drum. We don't 2 have to check the drum, don't have to sample the drum. Just 3 the act of discarding the drum is a felony offense. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Closed drum. 5 MR. NORTH: Closed drum. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Help me understand 7 that right quick. Just -- 8 MR. NORTH: Because, number one, if it's 9 closed, you don't know what's in the drum. And they don't 10 want anybody getting hurt or exposed. Most policemen, what 11 are they going to do? "What's in here?" I mean, "Let me 12 light a match. Let me look." They're not real smart 13 sometimes. State of Texas has decided to avoid any -- any 14 possible problem of haz-mat that now just -- just a mere 15 discarding of a 55 -- closed 55-gallon drum is a felony 16 offense. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If you come across 18 one like that, Eddie, what do you do? 19 MR. NORTH: Sir? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If you come across a 21 situation where you've got a -- 22 MR. NORTH: Come across a drum? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A drum of -- of 24 something that you don't know what it is, what do you do? 25 MR. NORTH: I'm going to call the haz-mat 4-11-05 156 1 team in. I'm not going to mess with it. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 'Cause it 3 could be toxic? 4 MR. NORTH: I'm going to try and get any 5 information, of course, off the drum as to where it came 6 from, and just call haz-mat and let them handle it, because 7 they're equipped to do that. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I thought you were going 9 to call a deputy, have them look inside. 10 MR. NORTH: I'm sure the Sheriff has received 11 those and just told his men not to try to open a drum or -- 12 the laws are changing constantly, just because of that fact. 13 But we don't have that problem in Kerr County a lot, thank 14 God. I can't think of anything else. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let me ask you a 16 question, 'cause part of this -- part of this policy -- new 17 policy takes us into a direction we've never been before, 18 and that goes into enforcement. And the failure to abate a 19 nuisance could result in -- this is the paragraph that's -- 20 well, wherever it is here. Just a second. Paragraph -- 21 under Paragraph 6, Notification. And we go through the 22 routines of notifying in 31 days and all that good stuff, 23 which you guys do anyhow. But if they fail to abate, you 24 know, this -- this puts some teeth there where we've never 25 had them before if we adopt this policy. Failure to abate 4-11-05 157 1 may result in abatement by the County. 2 MR. NORTH: Right. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We talked about that. 4 Assessment of costs to the person responsible for causing 5 the nuisance when that person can be identified. 6 MR. NORTH: Right. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And a lien against 8 property on which the nuisance exists if the person 9 responsible for causing the nuisance has an interest in the 10 property, and so forth and so on. Now, my questions, I 11 guess, have to do with -- we've talked about this, Miguel 12 and I and Ray; we were in a meeting the other day, talked 13 about abatement by the County. For example, how would we do 14 that? 15 MR. NORTH: Going to have to work on that. 16 Normally, the County would bring equipment out and clean the 17 property up with their backhoes and dump trucks or whatever, 18 and -- and dispose of it, and legally, in a landfill. And 19 the cost would have to be figured by whoever -- Road and 20 Bridge or whoever did that, and then that -- that would be a 21 lien put against the -- would turn into a lien against that 22 property. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand that 24 part. I'm just talking about actually getting the work 25 done. For example, we'll have to talk about whether Road 4-11-05 158 1 and Bridge can participate in that, but the thought occurred 2 to me, Sheriff, that we've got some folks with black and 3 white striped suits. Can those folks be used in this 4 connection? 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, I'm not sure the 6 liability on using them on private property, even if the 7 County's ordering to use it, because the law actually states 8 I can only, right now -- and there are some bills before the 9 Legislature this time that may change that, but right now, 10 as it stands, it only states I can use them on county-owned 11 property. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Government-owned. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah, government-owned 14 property. The only other thing that would really concern me 15 on this is just, like, we run across -- and Ed can attest to 16 this -- is you run across a situation where it's a 17 methamphetamine lab, okay, where you've got haz-mat 18 materials. The cost of that cleanup -- and that's why you 19 will see us always involving D.P.S. or the task force, who 20 has the D.P.S. involvement. The costs of just that cleanup 21 can run into the hundreds of thousands, if not the millions 22 of dollars per site, and if the County is the one causing 23 this cleanup, the County's the one that's going to have to 24 pay that by the EPA stuff and everything and all those. 25 That's why D.P.S. went to a contract with haz-mat cleanup 4-11-05 159 1 groups and environmental disposal. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not necessarily the 3 case if you can affix the blame. You can go out to the 4 person that created the problem. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But if the property 6 itself is worth $20,000, and your cleanup is going to cost 7 you $100,000, I don't know how much blood you're going to 8 suck out of that turnip that the County's going to have to 9 pay for. That's the only -- that's the only concern I would 10 have. That's why we involve D.P.S. And I'm sure Ed's 11 thought about the same thing. 12 MR. NORTH: That's a problem with a lot of 13 property in the county. People won't clean them up because 14 the cleanup costs more than the property's worth. We find 15 that a lot, a lot of abandoned mobile homes, abandoned 16 property. That's a problem we run into. People will just 17 leave, walk off and leave them, 'cause it costs more to 18 clean them up. When we're talking about a County cleanup, 19 we're talking about small-time -- you know, maybe $100, and 20 not $100,000. Hundreds of dollars, maybe a thousand 21 dollars. I would think that we wouldn't want to get 22 involved in anything major. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Get EPA and turn it over 24 to federal -- 25 MR. NORTH: Right. 4-11-05 160 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But your question, the 2 law that looks like it might pass simply expands his ability 3 to work his prisoners from government-owned property to 4 nonprofit -- 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- property. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But I think something -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Didn't say anything 9 about private. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, but I'm only -- my 11 question would be -- and it may be after this Legislature 12 will be a time to get an A.G.'s opinion on it. If it were 13 something like this, where the County's forced to go in and 14 clean this up, then the County's having to do it, not a 15 citizen, and at that point I don't know where that would 16 fall, Buster. And I think it would be worthwhile to get -- 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a good point, 18 Rusty. Mr. County Attorney, what about the use of -- what 19 about the use of county equipment through Road and Bridge 20 Department? Is that permissible? 21 MR. EMERSON: I don't know the answer to 22 that. I've never looked into that situation, to be honest 23 with you. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Private property. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. 4-11-05 161 1 MR. NORTH: I can -- 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think we need to 3 ferret out an answer. 4 MR. ARREOLA: Other counties do have the 5 program, cities have the program, so I'm pretty sure there 6 is contractors; there's somebody who will do it. It's just 7 the cost is going to be very -- the cost in the beginning. 8 But it's going on right now. It's happening. 9 MR. NORTH: I was going to say, I could 10 contact Dr. Yukos or somebody, ask them what their 11 procedures are. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, and what their legal 13 authority -- the basis of their legal authority if the 14 governmental entity is doing the cleanup on private property 15 and using governmental equipment. 16 MR. NORTH: I know -- and I ought to tell 17 you, Judge, in the Health and Safety Code, it says if the 18 County is involved in the cleanup of property, the lien on 19 the property, there has to be -- this has to be in place, 20 this -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Program. 22 MR. NORTH: -- program that we have. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 24 MR. NORTH: Has to be in place first before 25 you can do that. I'll be glad to check for you and find out 4-11-05 162 1 what the other counties are doing. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Another issue that we 3 have to talk about -- the Court needs to talk about and get 4 a little light on has to do with that point that was made in 5 Assistant County Attorney Jerry Phillips' memorandum to 6 Miguel dated February 24, in which he said the requirement 7 of Section IV(B), about the help, is -- or representatives, 8 is that the representative, or plural, must be a regularly 9 salaried -- regularly salaried, full-time county employee. 10 And he says that that requirement comes straight from the 11 Health and Safety Code. 12 MR. NORTH: It does. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Now, that poses 14 somewhat of a -- a problem in that we have you, Ed, who have 15 worked regularly two days a week, I believe -- is that 16 correct? And Mr. Garcia, who now works regularly as a 17 part-time -- 18 MR. GARCIA: Three days. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- three days a week. 20 In my mind, that makes a full week's work, but apparently 21 not -- doesn't apparently satisfy the letter of the law. 22 MR. NORTH: I was thinking -- my thinking, 23 Commissioner Williams, is that's covered by Miguel being a 24 full-time employee. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. 4-11-05 163 1 MR. NORTH: So that was the way I thought it 2 would be covered. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Me too. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, what do you 5 think, Mr. County Attorney? 6 MR. EMERSON: I think Miguel can administer 7 it, but I don't think Ed or Ray can. You can't assign them, 8 because they're not full-time employees. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It says the nuisance 10 abatement program shall be administered by a director. That 11 would be Miguel. Director shall be appointed by 12 Commissioners Court. That would be us, wouldn't it? Must 13 be full-time -- and a director must be full-time, regular 14 salaried county employee, so we satisfied that. We do got 15 that. Neither the order creating this program or other 16 policies created with salary... blah, blah, blah. A 17 director may appoint, by written designation, one or more 18 representatives to assist him, and they -- according to this 19 document, they must be -- they shall also be regularly 20 salaried full-time county employees. So, where's that leave 21 us? 22 MR. NORTH: Good question. I don't know. 23 MR. ARREOLA: We need to convert one of them 24 to full-time. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What would the cost 4-11-05 164 1 be to do that? 2 MR. ARREOLA: I don't have the exact figure 3 yet. I present it to the Treasurer's department. That will 4 be about $10,000 more of what we're spending right now. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Per annum? 6 MR. ARREOLA: Per year. Per year, for a full 7 year, plus benefits, whatever the benefits is. And that's 8 what they're figuring out right now. For the rest of the 9 year, it will be probably half of that. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, your thought is 11 that Mr. Garcia could become the full-time employee, if the 12 Court were to go that direction, and Mr. North would 13 continue in his capacity, and -- and as such, bring the law 14 enforcement aspect of this -- 15 MR. ARREOLA: Of this program. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- to bear to back up 17 the other gentleman. Is that your idea? 18 MR. ARREOLA: That's it, yes, sir. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, I've asked all 20 my questions. You guys got questions? 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I do. Procedurally, 22 are we -- are we going to act on this? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not today. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay, good. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Public hearing only. 4-11-05 165 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's not styled to 2 act on today. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The -- I appreciate 4 we've had aggressive results on kind of a cleanup program, 5 and I think it's working. I think they've done a good job 6 of cleaning up some traditional areas of nuisance. And I 7 think I like this nuisance abatement program, but I'm trying 8 to get a feel for whether -- what is the balance between the 9 program that's got more teeth and will be more successful, 10 and the trade-off of more bureaucracy and more rules to 11 administer and that sort of thing. And I don't -- don't yet 12 have a good feel for that. I don't know how I'm going to 13 get to that. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And money. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And money, yeah. 16 And I'm just -- I'll just ask Sergeant North. Would this 17 program -- this policy allow us to be more effective in 18 getting things cleaned up? 19 MR. NORTH: Well, I think we could get all 20 the kinks worked out of it, but it's another tool, 21 basically, Commissioner. Another tool in our bag that we 22 can use if we have to. It would probably be a last resort. 23 Having the County cleaning up a property would be a very 24 last resort type of proposition, when all else fails. 25 I'm -- in my travels around the county, we have hundreds of 4-11-05 166 1 abandoned structures that people have just flat either died 2 or just moved away and left, and I don't know -- or they 3 don't have the money. They're hazards. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. We've run 5 into that several times where somebody says they'd like to 6 clean it up; they can't afford to. 7 MR. NORTH: Yeah. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You know, my -- in 9 dealing with people that I represent, next to Road and 10 Bridge, I probably get more contact on these kind of issues 11 than anything else, and there's a lot of cleanup that needs 12 to be done. If we're not careful, we'll look like 13 Kerrville. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the -- I share a 15 lot of your concerns. I'm just not sure if we need it. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm not either. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's where I guess I 18 am. I think we're doing most of the stuff already without 19 it. But if it does give us a little more teeth, maybe it's 20 good. I'm not -- I'm undecided. One thing that I -- while 21 we're talking just about, you know, litter, trash and 22 cleanup, one of the things that is going the other 23 direction, unfortunately, in this county is litter on the 24 roads. And I've had -- I get a lot of complaints from my 25 constituents about that, and it's not necessarily -- it's 4-11-05 167 1 dumping, but it's not dumping as in these photographs. It's 2 dumping as in carelessness, bottles. I mean, you know, but 3 it's in very regular places. 4 MR. NORTH: Littering. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Bad litter. Significant 6 litter. And one of the things I was wondering, we have a 7 video camera, correct? 8 MR. ARREOLA: Yes. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That you can set up in 10 spots where we knew there was dumping going on? 11 MR. ARREOLA: It's -- as a video camera, it 12 works good, but as a surveillance, it does not. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Does not? 14 MR. ARREOLA: No. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: May be something I'd be 16 interested in, because, I mean, there are areas that are -- 17 consistently get a bag of garbage thrown out. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: C.P. River Road is 19 one of them. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's a lot of them. 21 And we're getting pretty good at cleaning up the old 22 mattresses and the cars and stuff in the photographs, but 23 there's still an awful lot of dumping going on that's -- you 24 know that's casual dumping, for lack of another term. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Do you notice that 4-11-05 168 1 you don't ever see anybody throw that stuff out? But you 2 come by the next morning, and there -- there's something. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's dark, and -- 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Midnight skulker has 5 been out again. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: When I see it, I'm 7 calling the Sheriff. But I don't see them. 8 MR. ARREOLA: One of our plans this year is 9 to apply for a grant for surveillance equipment. Yeah, we 10 know there's a problem. We -- we know of a few spots that 11 people like to use. That will help us a lot. Yes, sir? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me ask, if I might, in 13 attempting to secure outside funds for cleanup or compliance 14 or both, the ability to secure those funds, is that 15 dependent upon having in place a formal nuisance abatement 16 program? 17 MR. ARREOLA: I don't know if it has to be 18 the nuisance abatement program, but the code enforcement has 19 to be in place. The actual office of the Code Enforcement 20 Officer has to be in place. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, we've got that in place. 22 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, we do. We applied for 23 grants before, and it was not a requirement to have certain 24 named programs, but we have to have something going on. I'm 25 pretty sure this will help a lot more, 'cause we -- we going 4-11-05 169 1 into the -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I understand it will 3 give us some additional options that we don't otherwise have 4 under the Health and Safety Code right now, or the Penal 5 Code. But I'm -- I'm like Commissioner Nicholson; I'm 6 looking at the trade-off, and if, over on the other side of 7 the equation, there's some outside money that could be had 8 that would offset this additional cost, I -- I'd have a 9 warmer fuzzier feeling about it. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, the last time 11 we tried that -- and we did try that, Judge. We tried it on 12 two occasions, I think. 13 MR. ARREOLA: Two occasions. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right, before the 15 Solid Waste Advisory Committee group of AACOG, which makes 16 those decisions, and essentially what they're doing is 17 spending moneys that they accumulate from tipping fees, most 18 of which come out of the metropolitan area, because they're 19 tipping all the time, and in greater quantities than we do, 20 and so they're pretty parochial about where they give those 21 dollars. And the last time we filed an application, they 22 were unwilling to give us a grant to expand from part-time 23 to full-time, to get us where we are today, two and three. 24 They were unwilling to fund that addition. So, I'm not sure 25 that -- if we went back to that well for that purpose, we'd 4-11-05 170 1 probably get the same answer. If we go back to that well 2 for other purposes, we may get a different answer. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Another question 4 about that. I'm a little bit worried about some of the 5 definitions. In our current rule, it's 100 feet, and this 6 would propose that we go to 300 feet from the property line? 7 MR. NORTH: 300 feet is part of the Health 8 and Safety Code, Commissioner. Part of the law is in a -- 9 visible within 300 feet of a public road. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, that's not an 11 expansion; we're not expanding from 100 to 300. And, of 12 course, it's always -- the details are always popping up 13 later. Allowing weeds to grow within 300 feet. You know, 14 both my neighbors are guilty of violating that. And they're 15 pretty -- I'm worried a lot about the bureaucracy of 16 something -- 17 MR. NORTH: Well, it has to go -- Your 18 Honor -- I mean Commissioner, you also have to show that 19 it -- it harbors vermin, snakes or vermin, and some language 20 that says it must grow over 36 inches tall. So that's 21 something -- we try not to get into a lot of weeds. That 22 can be a nightmare. 23 MR. ARREOLA: Yeah. Basically, your heavily 24 populated areas is where we -- you know. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I can tell you, 4-11-05 171 1 Commissioner, right now, the City and the County, who own 2 the airport, would be in violation of this code for allowing 3 those thistles to get 3 feet tall and blowing their seeds 4 all over Mary and Nelson Happy's property across the 5 highway. We've already heard from her. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just want to make 7 sure the west Kerr County newspaper gets that comment about 8 your neighbors. Did you get that? (Laughter.) 9 MR. EMERSON: If I may comment briefly, 10 Commissioner Baldwin and I were at a meeting Friday on the 11 weeds, and this would be a good example, where if it's -- 12 primarily, what it turned out to be is really a civil 13 dispute from one neighbor to the other, and the County 14 wasn't involved. But the issue that arose was a fence that 15 went across in front of a culvert that had grass this high 16 growing up in front of it that was acting as a catch-all 17 every time it rained. And that would be a prime situation 18 where they could selectively force it and clear it out, 19 thereby reducing the backflow of water and flooding this 20 apartment building. 21 MR. ARREOLA: And we take more into 22 consideration like that case. Ponding water, et cetera, is 23 a big issue, so, you know, we'll take it all in play. Also 24 like to make another comment on -- we don't have so many 25 cases that we feel is going to go through this more 4-11-05 172 1 stringent requirement. And we're doing a lot of cleanups. 2 The community is responding very well, and we're getting a 3 lot of help, but there's one or two or three that we might 4 need to do it. If it's a big one, that if we -- we know we 5 can't afford, we will notify D.P.S. or whoever needs to be 6 notified. 7 MR. NORTH: T.C.E.Q. or whoever. 8 MR. ARREOLA: Whoever needs to be notified 9 for that. We're talking about county-level cleanups where 10 we can -- we will know the property value enough to get it 11 back whenever it is reimbursed. But, like he said, it will 12 be a last option. It's not something that we're looking for 13 and just go clean them all. We want them to clean it. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So the bottom line 15 is, if the Court were to adopt the nuisance abatement policy 16 as drafted and presented, this would give you abatement 17 tools that you don't now have. 18 MR. ARREOLA: Exactly right. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You can continue to 20 do exactly what you're doing now, but the more difficult 21 ones where they refuse to clean up, you'd now have a tool to 22 work with. 23 MR. ARREOLA: Correct. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what it 25 reduces itself to. 4-11-05 173 1 MR. ARREOLA: The ones that we can do now we 2 will be able to do. We have a very small percentage, but it 3 will be done. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there any other individual 6 that wishes to be heard? 7 MR. TOMLINSON: I have a request, that they 8 extend their activities to the City of Kerrville. 9 (Laughter.) 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We'd have to have an 11 interlocal agreement. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Huh-uh, we'd have to 13 have three or four meetings to decide on how to have a 14 meeting. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Work out the process. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: The thought occurred to me 17 that if we're -- if we're trying to pretty things up, and 18 we're having considerable success at it, maybe this type of 19 program could be a replacement for the U.D.C. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I was thinking about 22 calling it the Uniform Dumping Code. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: I see. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: U.D.C. My only other 25 comment, Judge, is that whoever typed this, their computer 4-11-05 174 1 has either a hiccough or a stuttering problem, 'cause "a 2 hearing a hearing." 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: County Attorney's 4 office. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: County Attorney's 6 office? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Commissioner Number 2, 8 what's your plan? To bring this back? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir, I'll bring 10 it back, and the Court can decide whether it wants to go 11 that route or not. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any other individual 14 wish to be heard in the public hearing with respect to the 15 proposed Kerr County nuisance abatement program? 16 MR. ARREOLA: Just one last comment. If 17 there's more information that you need to better make a 18 decision, there's plenty of information in the department 19 that we can share with you any time. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I just want to thank 21 you and -- 22 MR. ARREOLA: Ray. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- Eddie and Ray for 24 the work. We do appreciate it very much. You're doing a 25 good job. Thank you very much. 4-11-05 175 1 MR. ARREOLA: Thank you. 2 MR. GARCIA: Thank you. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Could we declare Buster 4 a county nuisance if it gets passed? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: We're closed. Anyone else 6 wishing to be heard on this? I will close the public 7 hearing and I will reconvene the Commissioners Court 8 meeting, and we'll go to Item 20, to consider and discuss 9 the employment status of the manager of the Rabies and 10 Animal Control department. Is that something, Commissioner, 11 that you feel like we ought to address at this point, or 12 consider later? 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think we can go 14 ahead and address it, and if we think we need an executive 15 session, we can do that. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'll start off by 18 making a motion that we -- that we change the employment 19 status of the manager of Rabies and Animal Control 20 department from temporary to permanent -- the assignment 21 status, not the employment status. And that we increase the 22 compensation from $27,500 per year to $28,500 per year. And 23 if I get a second, I'll talk about the background on that 24 issue. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 4-11-05 176 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Three months ago, we 2 had a -- had a vacancy in that position, and Janie Roman 3 applied for that job, and we decided to -- to employ her in 4 the position for a 90-day trial period, and at the end of 5 that 90 days, make a decision about whether or not to make 6 that permanent, and if so, to adjust the salary at that 7 time. You probably will recall that the previous manager 8 was making right at $31,000, and at the time we assigned 9 Ms. Roman to it, we put her in at 27,5 and said that if, at 10 the end of that trial period was successful, that we would 11 increase it to 28,5. I worked pretty closely with Ms. Roman 12 over the past 90 days, and there have been some pretty 13 difficult issues that, coincidentally, came up over that 14 period of time. I dealt with some complaints, and I also 15 dealt with hearing some good kudos, some pretty impressive 16 recommendations that we're doing a good job out there. 17 The most recent one was, I think, a week -- 18 not this weekend, but last weekend, when a child came in 19 contact -- picked up a bat out at the Ag Barn during dog 20 trials, and the sponsor of the dog trials called 9-1-1, and 21 the dispatcher -- to ask them what to do, and the dispatcher 22 said, "We don't have a rabies problem in Kerr County; don't 23 worry about it." Well, they got in touch with Animal 24 Control, and they literally went the extra mile. They got 25 them -- got the attention they needed, got them over to the 4-11-05 177 1 hospital, got the local bat expert involved in the 2 situation. The family happened to be from College Station, 3 and so they had to go back home, and Animal Control followed 4 up with them in College Station by telephone the next day 5 and got them in touch with the people they needed over 6 there. So, that's one example of going the extra mile. 7 And -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Commissioner, can I 9 expand on that little story just a little bit? When this 10 thing popped up, they called Janie, who was in San Angelo, 11 Texas, and then she, in turn, called her staff here, back 12 here in Kerrville, and her staff actually went down to 13 Peterson Hospital and met with the family down there, too. 14 That is way above and beyond the call of duty. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Janie and I talked 16 about some ways to improve the services, ways to control 17 costs, and she's got some good ideas. Some of them are not 18 earthshaking changes, but some good ideas that have already 19 been implemented, and I'm comfortable that we got the right 20 person in that job. And I expect that we'll continue to get 21 complaints. People get pretty emotional about animals, more 22 than about any other subject. But -- and we're on the right 23 track, and it's in good hands. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And besides that, 25 Janie, where's your husband going? 4-11-05 178 1 MS. ROMAN: He's leaving for Kosovo. He'll 2 be gone -- he's leaving August 18th, and he'll be there for 3 approximately 18 months. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: She didn't say 6 Cozumel. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Didn't say Cozumel; 8 she said Kosovo. Got it. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: What unit is your husband 10 attached to, Janie? 11 MS. ROMAN: He was with the 249th, but he -- 12 they just changed him to -- actually, this last weekend, he 13 just -- they just changed him to -- I don't even know. 14 It's -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just make up 16 something. 17 MS. ROMAN: He's at Camp Swift now. Through 18 Camp Swift. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What will the salary 20 issue be again, Commissioner? 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: 28,5. It's 22 currently 27,5. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Which is what we 24 agreed to -- 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 4-11-05 179 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- when we cut the 2 deal. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Only question I have, and 4 going back to the bat situation -- and I'm grateful what we 5 did, but I'm a little bit concerned about someone at the 6 City knowing about the dispatch. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, yeah. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, it was corrected on 9 the other side? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's a done deal. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you, whoever did 12 that. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They got quite a few 14 calls, 'cause they also got one there -- the dispatch 15 supervisor got one from me and my department, because at 16 first they thought it was our dispatcher that did that. And 17 the tape was pulled, and their dispatch supervisor for 9-1-1 18 advised me that they had definitely addressed the situation, 19 and that won't happen again. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Did it turn out the 21 bat was rabid or not? 22 MS. ROMAN: No, it was not able to be 23 tested -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 25 MS. ROMAN: -- due to it being severely 4-11-05 180 1 decomposed. But at the time, we did not know, and unless we 2 actually -- either myself or my staff sees the bat, we can't 3 tell whether it's able to be tested or not. But Bill Price 4 from P.D. Dispatch did e-mail me. I sent him a -- a memo, 5 let him know what we should or should not be called out on, 6 because I've also had a problem with them not reporting 7 animal bites to us, which is one of the main things that 8 they should be calling us out on. I can honestly say I've 9 never -- we've never -- in the 10 years I've been there 10 almost, we've never had any problems out of -- out of the 11 Sheriff's Office. They're great. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We'd rather them chase 13 them animals than us. 14 MS. ROMAN: And they know what, you know, to 15 call us out on, and if they have a question, they call me 16 and I'll let them know whether we can go out on that or -- 17 or whether we will or will not go out on that. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Ready to vote? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and second. 21 Any further question or discussion? All in favor of the 22 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 4-11-05 181 1 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thank you for your 3 patience and hanging around here all day, Janie. 4 MS. ROMAN: No problem. Thank you. Thank 5 you all. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Next item on the agenda is -- 7 MS. PIEPER: Excuse me, Judge. That motion 8 did not actually appoint her. It just changed the status 9 and the pay. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Change her from an interim 11 director to permanent. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Permanent director. 13 MS. PIEPER: Okay. I missed that, then. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: With an increase in salary 15 from 27,5 to 28,5. 16 MS. PIEPER: All right. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay? All right. We'll now 18 go to Item 21, remodeling to allow access to windows 19 currently located in the exterior wall adjacent to the 20 County Attorney's office. Tell us what this is about. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, here's another 22 case where Kathy has authority to tell him you're not 23 getting on this agenda without some explanation. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There you go. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: By example. 4-11-05 182 1 MR. EMERSON: We can only assume that 2 somewhere in the process of courthouse remodeling, the money 3 ran out before the windows on the bottom were taken care of, 4 'cause everybody else's windows are boxed in. We're still 5 sitting in the dark like mushrooms. We have windows 6 immediately outside the walls, but no way to access them. 7 We've had several contractors come out and look. It's a 8 relatively simple and, comparatively speaking, inexpensive 9 procedure to cut the masonry and box out the windows so that 10 we actually have windows. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You have to talk to Mike 12 Walker about this. This may totally the change the design 13 of his building. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Could affect the structural 15 integrity, too. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're going to be 17 looking out on the parking lot? Is that the deal? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sunlight. 19 MR. EMERSON: Sunlight, exactly. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: S-o-n. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I want to give the 23 County Attorney some windows. 24 MR. EMERSON: Thank you. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd come back with a 4-11-05 183 1 proposal. I mean, a definite -- what it's going to cost. I 2 mean -- 3 MR. EMERSON: Well, I actually think I can 4 pull the money out of the Hot Check fund to do it. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In which case -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's the funniest fund 7 I've ever seen. 8 MR. EMERSON: Won't touch the budget for the 9 County. And what I need is permission from the Court to 10 pursue it. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 14 approval. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question. The windows 16 are on the outside? We can see them? 17 MR. EMERSON: Correct. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just can't get to them. 19 MR. EMERSON: There's -- the problem is, 20 there's a 2-foot dead area between one wall and the other. 21 We can actually go out the door from the County Attorney's 22 office and look all up the side of the building. We can 23 maneuver up and down the side of the building; we just can't 24 get out. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: A false wall. 4-11-05 184 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 2 JUDGE RAGSDALE: It's a real wall. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I remember, 'cause we had 4 to put -- because they covered up the old building. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. I just wanted to 7 make sure we weren't going to tear out the masonry on the 8 outside. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Any question or discussion? 10 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 11 hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. 16 MR. EMERSON: Thank you. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Next time try to 18 provide some backup, will you please? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: The next item -- do we have 20 anything to go into closed or executive session? 21 MR. EMERSON: Yes, sir. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We will go out of open 23 session at -- 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, when are we 25 going to go listen to the -- 4-11-05 185 1 JUDGE TINLEY: We're not going to. 2 (Discussion off the record.) 3 (The open session was closed at 2:20 p.m., and an Executive Session was held, the 4 transcript of which is contained in a separate document.) 5 - - - - - - - - - - 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We will come back into 7 open session at 2:47, and we will now go to the approval 8 agenda. First off, let me inquire, is there any action that 9 any member of the Court wishes to offer with regard to any 10 of the matters discussed in closed or executive session? 11 Hearing nothing, we'll go to the approval agenda. First 12 off, we have payment of the bills. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I move to pay the 14 bills. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 17 payment of the bills. Any question or discussion? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have one. On 19 Commissioners -- Page 1, Commissioners Court, law offices of 20 Charles S. somebody. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Frigerio. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. Is that -- I see. 23 That explains it all. 24 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: That goes to our deductible? 4-11-05 186 1 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's good. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or 5 comments? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 6 your right hand. 7 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 9 (No response.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 11 Budget amendments. Budget Amendment Request Number 1. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 1 is for the Sheriff's 13 Office. Actually, this -- this is an increase in the budget 14 for $107,897.65, and it's for the proceeds of -- it's the 15 Homeland Security proceeds. Along with that, I have late 16 bills that -- that I want to include. One is for -- to 17 Contech Communications, and this is for the trailer, for 18 $76,932.65. And the other one is to Secor Fence Company for 19 $10,586. It's for 523 feet of 8-foot fence installed at the 20 Sheriff's Office for security. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is it installed? 22 How's it look? 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Looks good. 24 MR. TOMLINSON: And the other is to Ken 25 Stoepel Ford for -- 4-11-05 187 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That one, I'll have to 2 change who it's made out to. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't want to do that. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, let me tell you 5 what the deal is. That's why I stood up. I want to explain 6 this. The 76,000 and the 10,000 money has already been 7 received by Kerr County. Evidently, TEEX is a little slow 8 with their 20,000. The van is received. Kerr County has 9 the van for $20,379, which is what that's for. But the way 10 these amendments were being done, as soon as late checks -- 11 or as soon as that money -- we thought it would be here by 12 now. It's not here, but I don't want to keep Ken Stoepel on 13 the line, because we have the van and they don't have their 14 money. 'Cause all this Homeland Security is a 15 reimbursement, which we're supposed to pay and get the money 16 back, but since that's not here, I do have a seizure account 17 that I was going to go ahead and take the money out of the 18 seizure account to pay that 20,000 to Ken Stoepel so that we 19 can pay it tomorrow, and then, when that money gets in from 20 TEEX, to deposit it back into that seizure account. And 21 y'all don't want to do it? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I see lots of heads 23 shaking. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, it's a 25 reimbursement. I just don't know how you want to do it. I 4-11-05 188 1 don't want to pay it and it not get back in the seizure 2 account. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't want to -- I don't 4 want to particularly mix the money. I want the check from 5 this money to go to Ken Stoepel Ford. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, I agree with you, 7 Tommy. The problem you have with that is the way all this 8 Homeland Security money is set up, and the way it was 9 originally agreed to -- and this is all over the state; it's 10 not just us -- is it's a reimbursement. When you do a local 11 purchase -- you know, most of our equipment itself is not a 12 local purchase. It's purchased through contractors with 13 TEEX, so we never even see the money and never change it. 14 But when it's a local purchase, which they consider the 15 communications trailer as a local purchase, the fence is a 16 local purchase, and this domestic preparedness-slash-crime 17 scene van is a local purchase. The way those are set up 18 with TEEX is, those are reimbursements, okay? Now, no 19 county, including Atascosa, the rest of them that got 20 trailers -- all of us had objected with AACOG that we're not 21 going to pay this 76,000, or all these tens of thousands of 22 dollars out of our pocket and wait to get reimbursed. We 23 don't have that in our budgets, 'cause it's after budget 24 time. And, so, what we did is try and get all this sped up 25 so that this money comes in at the right time. My only 4-11-05 189 1 problem is, I mean, Ken Stoepel's been working with us, but 2 I'd just hate -- it's been two weeks now, three weeks that 3 we have the van, and they don't have their money for that 4 van. And I have the money in a seizure account that I can 5 take and pay them for that van, but then I want to make sure 6 that that Homeland Security money, which is for that van, 7 does go back into that seizure account. That's 8 reimbursement from the state. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's going to look bad. 10 That's going to be hard to show the feds that. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, that's what they 12 expect. That's a reimbursement. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I mean, but -- 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They reimburse. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is this the same van 16 I saw up -- parked in the parking lot up at AACOG? 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, that's the trailer. 18 This is a white, one-ton 2005 Ford utility van -- 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- that will be used to 21 pull that trailer. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Now I see. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: What's the prognosis on 24 receiving the money? 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That money was approved 4-11-05 190 1 at the same time the trailer money was approved. The 2 trailer money was deposited last week. This money is not. 3 I've got a call in to the gal at TEEX to find out what 4 happened. And -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why don't we approve it 6 pending the funds coming in, so if funds come in in the next 7 two weeks, Tommy can do a hand check. But I would agree 8 with Tommy; I wouldn't take money from a seizure account. 9 That doesn't look good. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, I need -- you 11 know, I'd just hate to keep one of our local people out of 12 their money until the state or feds figure out how to -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What's wrong with what 14 he's talking about, Tommy? 15 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, you know, we're just -- 16 I just -- with federal money, I like to keep things really 17 clean if we can. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, it's the same 19 thing -- to me, it's the same thing. 20 MR. TOMLINSON: We don't even have a budget 21 on that money that he's talking about. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's another thing I 23 was going to ask you. I couldn't find these -- these 24 expense code accounts in the budget anywhere. 25 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, these are brand-new. 4-11-05 191 1 These are new accounts. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Obviously so. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah, they are. We're 4 setting up a revenue account for -- for the proceeds, and an 5 expense account to expend the money out of to -- to pay for 6 this equipment. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think I agree with 8 Tommy. The problem is that I don't -- I can see the feds 9 saying -- coming back and saying, "No, you didn't pay for a 10 van with that." So what's the difference in paying -- you 11 loaning them the money, and then you trying to get the feds 12 to pay you back? 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, the feds expect 14 for you to pay it up front and get reimbursed by the feds. 15 That's the reimbursement. That's what I'm talking about. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't imagine they 17 care where it comes from. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. And instead of 19 going into the general fund to get the 20,300 to go ahead 20 and pay Ken Stoepel, I'm doing it out of our seizure account 21 to get it reimbursed instead of the general fund. However 22 y'all would rather do it. I just don't want Ken Stoepel to 23 have to keep hanging on, not getting their money, waiting 24 for the feds. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you have a fear, 4-11-05 192 1 Tommy, that the feds are not going to send the money? 2 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, no. I just -- I've 3 just had experience with federal grants, and the cleaner you 4 can keep it, the better off you are. But, I mean, if -- if 5 the Court would -- would entertain a budget for that -- for 6 that seizure money, then -- then, you know, we -- we've 7 talked about that. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. Which I think it 9 needs to be done. 10 MR. TOMLINSON: The thing -- the money he's 11 talking about is proceeds from the gambling paraphernalia 12 that was seized in -- in this bust that the Sheriff's Office 13 made. There's -- in the law and the Code of Criminal 14 Procedure, there's -- there's no real definition as to what 15 -- how to handle the money. Didn't even say it's to be 16 budgeted. But my preference and the Sheriff's preference is 17 that the Court -- that we -- that this money is highly 18 visible, and that we want to create a budget for those 19 proceeds. And so, if we can create a budget for -- for this 20 amount for those -- for those proceeds, then I'm okay. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What we have, gentlemen, 22 right now is when the original seizures and all that 23 gambling stuff occurred, the cash that was seized and 24 anything we had at that time, I opened up a savings account 25 at the Security State Bank, same place the County has 4-11-05 193 1 theirs. And it's only a savings; it wasn't any kind of 2 checking or anything. Now that most of those cases are 3 done, in that account at this time there's about $133,000. 4 Twenty thousand of that goes back to one of the gambling 5 establishments. Another $20,000, $30,000 of that, roughly, 6 right in there, is still tied up in court. So -- or about 7 another $20,000. So, there's about $90,000 in there that is 8 County money right now that has to be used for law 9 enforcement. What we plan on doing -- and I just talked to 10 the secretary about it, is we're going to transfer that 11 that's already seized and is the County's money over to a 12 checking account in there so you can create your line item 13 for it, and then the money that's still pending will stay in 14 there, or the money that has to be returned pending on it. 15 And that -- there's also another 65 gambling machines that 16 will be sold out of that, which will bring in another 17 $30,000 or so, probably. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tommy, when you say 19 create a budget, are you talking about just a line item? 20 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or are you talking 22 about -- 23 MR. TOMLINSON: Set up a line item to -- to 24 authorize an expenditure of these funds. I mean, I don't 25 think -- the law doesn't require it for -- for the Court to 4-11-05 194 1 do that, that I -- that I can read. I don't read that into 2 it. But it's the Sheriff's preference that you do it, and 3 so -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You set these up. Why 5 don't you just set it up and go? 6 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, I can, but I want your 7 approval. I mean, it's -- it will increase the budget by -- 8 the total budget by this amount, is what it'll do. So I 9 just -- you know, I want you to know. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're doing it -- I mean, 11 but this 107,000, that's Homeland Security money. Then 12 there's seizure money. There's two different items. 13 MR. TOMLINSON: I have two different things. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Two different things, 15 yes. 16 MR. TOMLINSON: Right. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, what do we need a 18 motion to do first? 19 MR. TOMLINSON: Let's do the -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Homeland Security? 21 MR. TOMLINSON: -- Homeland Security first. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for approval. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. That's to 24 expand the budget? 25 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 4-11-05 195 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: And Ken Stoepel Ford was 3 $20,379? 4 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. We pull that and pay it 5 with the seizure money after we increase the budget. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're going to increase 7 the budget $107,897; after we've done that, then we're going 8 to transfer $20,000 from the seizure fund into this fund, 9 correct? 10 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, we can do it that way. 11 Yeah, let's -- I think that -- that may be the best way to 12 do it. Go ahead and approve the payment out of this fund, 13 and we'll do a -- we'll transfer the cash from his account 14 into this one. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Then we transfer it back 16 when the funds come in. 17 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. That's -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I made the motion to 20 approve this thing right here. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. And issue the hand 22 check? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And issue a hand 24 check. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Do I have a second to 4-11-05 196 1 that? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, I seconded it. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I have a motion and 4 second to approve Budget Amendment Request Number 1, and 5 issue late bills and hand checks to Contech Communication, 6 $76,932.65; Secor Fence Company, $10,586; Ken Stoepel Ford 7 for $20,379. Any question or discussion on the motion? All 8 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 9 (Commissioners Williams, Letz, and Nicholson voted in favor of the motion.) 10 11 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You made the motion. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I know, but I -- I 15 thought that Ken Stoepel's money was -- was pulled out of 16 there. That's going to be a separate -- 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What I'm going to do, 18 Buster, is I'm going to give him the Ken Stoepel money. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, I see it. I see 20 what you're saying. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Show you as voting in favor of 22 the motion? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, please. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: God, this is exciting. 4-11-05 197 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Just real quick, this 2 seizure account, it will be handled the same way as our 3 equipment fund account now, which is part of the seizure 4 where we do have a -- a checking ability, where my secretary 5 can write those checks out of there. But we'll always keep 6 the Court, and have to keep Tommy informed on what we spend. 7 Because there is 9,000-something that we will be spending 8 for spike strips for all the cars. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What about my chair? 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. I will bring you a 11 chair that was seized from Jokers Wild, that we are now 12 owners of 26 chairs. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Y'all do know that 14 Jokers Wild was in that building that we're thinking about 15 leasing? 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's right. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: If we'd have 18 confiscated the building too, we wouldn't have a problem. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It came very close to 20 that, sir, 'cause I had given the owner a warning about it. 21 He let them reoperate. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now we need to 23 authorize somebody to transfer Rusty's money so it's a done 24 deal. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: He's got control over those 4-11-05 198 1 funds, and they can transfer 20,000-plus. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's exciting. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Budget Amendment 4 Request Number 2. 5 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 2 is a request from 6 the County Clerk to transfer $39.29 for election supplies 7 out of -- out of the Elections Expense budget into County 8 Clerk's budget. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move to approve. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 12 approval of Budget Amendment Request Number 2. Any question 13 or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 14 raising your right hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 19 Budget Amendment Request Number 3. 20 MR. TOMLINSON: This is for Nondepartmental, 21 to transfer $606.36 from Unemployment Insurance to Mainframe 22 Maintenance for the third and fourth quarters of this year. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 4-11-05 199 1 approval of Budget Amendment Request Number 3. Any question 2 or discussion? 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Why do we have such 4 a large unexpended balance in TAC Unemployment Insurance? 5 MR. TOMLINSON: Our -- our unemployment rate 6 really improved this year. So, we -- we budgeted based on 7 history, and it appears that -- that based on the first two 8 quarters, that we're in real good shape as far as that line 9 item. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But something could 11 happen. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, it could, but -- but -- 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 14 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 15 your right hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 20 Budget Amendment Request Number 4. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 4 is for the 216th 22 District Court. The request is to transfer $18.15 from 23 Special Trials to Court Transcripts. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move to approve. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 4-11-05 200 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 2 approval of Budget Amendment Request Number 4. Any question 3 or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 4 raising your right hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Budget 9 Amendment Request Number 5. 10 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 5 is for the 11 Commissioners Court. We need to transfer $275 from Books, 12 Publications, and Dues to the Center Point Utilities line 13 item. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This came about 15 because Judge Wright left out the 50 percent she'd been 16 paying off of her budget, and we didn't pick up on it at 17 budget time to pay the whole thing. Just like the shortfall 18 with the copy machine, same principle. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Who signed this thing 20 as breaking our budget down here? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, I did. Move 22 approval. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 25 approval of Budget Amendment Request Number 5. Any question 4-11-05 201 1 or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 2 raising your right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 7 Budget Amendment Request Number 6. 8 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 6 is to -- is a budget 9 amendment actually to increase the budget for Fund 10, to 10 come from Reserves, to repair the fire alarm system. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Repair the fire -- 13 MR. TOMLINSON: Alarm system. We had to 14 replace the computer in that system. And I've looked 15 everywhere I can think of to find the money to not increase 16 the budget, but without going into someone else's -- some 17 other department's budget, it's just not there. So, that's 18 my recommendation. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: In my pea brain, I can 20 sure see how this could be an emergency. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: Definitely. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. This works. 23 Some things we do bust the budget on doesn't work, in my 24 brains, but this does. So moved. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 4-11-05 202 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Declare an emergency. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to 3 declare an emergency and approve Budget Amendment Request 4 Number 6. Any question or discussion? All in favor of the 5 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: This motion does carry. Do we 10 have any late bills? 11 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I have before me monthly 13 reports presented by the Sheriff's Office, Constable 14 Precinct Number 1, County Clerk, Justice of the Peace 15 Precinct Number 1, Constable Precinct Number 4, Kerr County 16 Juvenile Facility, Environmental Health, District Clerk, 17 Victims' Rights -- Victims' Rights programs from the County 18 Attorney's office, County Attorney, Road and Bridge. Do I 19 hear a motion that these reports be approved as presented? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 23 approval of the named reports as presented. Any question or 24 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 25 your right hand. 4-11-05 203 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Do we 5 have any reports from any of the Commissioners on their 6 committee or liaison assignments? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not here. Nothing 8 here. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Do we have any reports from 10 elected officials or department heads? Hearing none -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Nice try. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Any reports from boards, 13 commissions, committees? Would you like to give us another 14 report on City/County projects, Commissioner Baldwin? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, the press is not 16 in here. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: I see. Do we have anything 18 further? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. What happened to 20 our -- to this? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Those -- I'm advised that the 23 vendor -- when it was indicated to the vendor, when we broke 24 for lunch, that we'd be coming back at 1:30, the vendor 25 advised the Clerk that they had commitments elsewhere and 4-11-05 204 1 had to go. The Clerk said that they didn't mention that 2 time constraint at the time that they originally made -- 3 made a commitment to come here. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Jannett, I'm sorry 5 that this happened. 6 MS. PIEPER: Well, I'm going to put it back 7 on for the next agenda. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what I was 9 afraid of. 10 MS. PIEPER: We'll have it for a specific 11 time. That way, if they have to leave -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You don't need to retype 13 it. We'll keep it -- I'll keep mine, anyway. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's talk about this 15 for a second. How -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: About keeping this? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. Did you say that 18 this is going to be a one-hour presentation? 19 MS. PIEPER: I don't think it will take that 20 long, not unless you have a ton of questions. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have zero questions. 22 But, you know, if we -- if we were going to -- it just seems 23 to me this is kind of more of a workshop type issue, to 24 where we have a company -- this company, and maybe the other 25 -- no, that's right, you eliminated all of them, didn't you? 4-11-05 205 1 MS. PIEPER: Yes. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But it just seems like 3 a workshop type thing, to where we're not -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rushed. 5 MS. PIEPER: Well, when you see the bottom 6 line figure of how much the County's going to spend, I 7 thought you would at least like to see what we may buy. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we'd like to see 9 it. I think the question is whether we want to see it in a 10 workshop or see it in a meeting. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just don't know -- 12 like, a full hour presentation doesn't seem to me like a 13 Commissioners Court agenda item issue. That's -- to me -- 14 and, you know, I could be wrong. Y'all can tell me go to 15 hell if you want to, but it seems to me -- no, you hold it 16 till I get through. It seems to me that it's kind of a 17 workshop type thing, to where we can have some real 18 back-and-forth and have a visit. 19 MS. PIEPER: We can do a workshop. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can do something else. 21 We have some other workshops that are kind of floating out 22 there. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, we got all kinds 24 of things. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Set it up with the Ag Barn 4-11-05 206 1 workshop? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That would be a lively -- 4 MS. PIEPER: We need to set something in 5 stone. Otherwise -- 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You want to be in on 7 that. Won't be able to vote, though. 8 MS. PIEPER: We need to set something -- a 9 date in stone or something. Otherwise, it's just going to 10 get pushed aside. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why don't we pick -- next 13 week on, I'm pretty much gone. Pretty much gone most weeks 14 the same, but the following week, why don't we pick a date 15 and do your part first? We can schedule something else that 16 same day. If not, we'll just do this. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can we put your 18 subdivision regs on there too? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Pretty good chance. 20 We're getting about to that point. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What date are we 22 talking about? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I mean, I've got a 24 Region J meeting all day Monday, and then I'm out of town 25 Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday. 4-11-05 207 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's this next week? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So that following week, 3 which is -- we have Commissioners Court Monday. We can do 4 it Tuesday. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We don't have 6 Commissioners Court next Monday. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: A week from Monday. 8 MS. PIEPER: May 9th. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 25th. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Tuesday afternoon, a week from 11 tomorrow, what's the HAVA meeting with the Secretary of 12 State? Do you know? 13 MS. PIEPER: What's what, sir? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: There's a HAVA meeting that 15 I'm showing with the Secretary of State Tuesday afternoon, a 16 week from tomorrow. 17 MS. PIEPER: Right. That's on the 19th, and 18 I'm not real sure why. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We have e-mails all 20 over and fliers all over, plastered all over. 21 MS. PIEPER: Right. They are asking for this 22 meeting with the Judge and Commissioners, and then I 23 received a phone call message sometime this morning 24 requesting a room large enough that they can invite other 25 counties to join in. 4-11-05 208 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They're going to tell 2 us about how much money we're going to get? 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think it's just a 4 public relations dog-and-pony show. 5 MS. PIEPER: Evidently -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What time is that? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: 3:30. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why don't we do it -- 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Jonathan, one other 10 thing that we have coming up that you may want -- if she's 11 going to do it as a workshop or demonstration, is that 12 Guardian Security -- Judge, remember, y'all met with him, I 13 think, out there in Odessa also, or saw him out there at one 14 of those. He's going to be up here around the 29th or so. 15 'Cause I want them to show me some other security issues in 16 the courthouse, and that alarm system, and possibly some 17 camera system, if we want to set up something at the same 18 time. You may not be interested in seeing it. He was 19 originally just going to show it to me so I can start 20 looking at it for budget time, but if we could do a 21 workshop, you could see his demonstration on that. You may 22 want to do it at the same time, and get it all -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We could do next Tuesday 24 at 2:30, and then the HAVA meeting's at 3:30. That would 25 give us an hour. 4-11-05 209 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Are you talking about with the 2 Hart people? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, of course, that's 5 subject to their availability, of course. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. It can be any 7 time. If I'm not here -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: If we're going to have a 9 trainload of HAVA people meeting here at 3:30, and we -- and 10 a lot of other counties participating, if the Hart people 11 are aware of that, I think they -- they'd look for any 12 opportunity to be here on that date, I would think. I mean, 13 it would be kind of like shooting fish in a barrel, wouldn't 14 it? 15 MS. PIEPER: Right. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hey, we could rent 17 space, let people have booths. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, man. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Coca-Cola. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Raise money for 21 Commissioners Court. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How about a week from 23 tomorrow at 2 o'clock or 2:30, somewhere around there? 24 2 o'clock? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, about 2 o'clock on 4-11-05 210 1 Tuesday, the 19th, probably. Okay. What else we got? 2 Anything? Hearing nothing else, we'll stand adjourned. 3 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 3:12 p.m.) 4 - - - - - - - - - - 5 6 7 8 STATE OF TEXAS | 9 COUNTY OF KERR | 10 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 11 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 12 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 13 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 14 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 18th day of April, 15 2005. 16 17 18 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 19 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 20 Certified Shorthand Reporter 21 22 23 24 25 4-11-05