1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Regular Session 10 Monday, May 9, 2005 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 DAVE NICHOLSON, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X May 9, 2005 2 PAGE --- Commissioners' Comments............................. 5 3 1.1 Kerr Economic Development Foundation (KEDF) second quarter update............................... 9 4 1.2 Consider current coverage of County's automobile liability insurance, how to best cover employees 5 using their personal vehicles....................... 24 1.3 Consider authorizing Sheriff to initiate reserve 6 deputy program...................................... 37 1.4 Discuss expenditure of surplus capital outlay 7 funds in the jail budget............................ 44 1.5 Consider approval of broadband services for court- 8 house in conjunction with Law Enforcement Center.... 47 1.9 Public Hearing on road changes in various locations 9 in Kerr County...................................... 63 1.10 Accept Bids for county depository contract and refer 10 same to County Treasurer and County Auditor......... 64 1.6 Consider awarding bid for cleanup of Flat Rock Lake 11 to Excavation Technologies, Inc..................... 65 1.7 Consider authorizing Road and Bridge to improve/ 12 construct separate roadway to facility at Kerrville State Hospital for acute/civil commitment patients.. 73 13 1.8 Discuss County's responsibility for maintenance of Clark Ranch Road in Precinct 4...................... 88 14 1.11 Consider reclassification of roads in Big Sky Ranch from public to private.............................. 98 15 1.12 Consider (a) name changes on County-maintained roads; (b) abandoning, discontinuing, and vacating 16 1445 ft. of Ox Hollow and all of Hurt-Priour; (c) speed limits on Bear Creek and Peterson Farm 17 Road; and (d) no parking on Hunt River Road......... 99 1.13 Consider road name changes for privately maintained 18 roads in accordance with 9-1-1 guidelines........... 109 1.14 Preliminary Plat of Mosty Pecan Grove, Pct. 2....... 109 19 1.15 Concept plan for Lot 91 of Clear Springs Ranches #2 to allow for rental of manufactured homes, Pct. 2... 119 20 1.16 Consider approval of contract with Kerrville ISD and Kerr County Juvenile Facility regarding the 21 educating of KISD-expelled students at KCJF; have County Judge sign same.............................. 130 22 1.17 Consider Butt-Holdsworth Memorial Library contract between City of Kerrville and Kerr County........... --- 23 1.18 Discuss a peer comparison survey that analyzes cost of Kerr County government compared to 12 other Texas 24 Counties with populations of 40,000 to 50,000....... 137 1.19 Consider Resolution declaring May 10, 2005, as 25 Kerr County Law Day................................. 143 3 1 I N D E X (Continued) May 9, 2005 2 PAGE 3 1.20 Consider approval of Administrative Services Agreement with United Of Omaha Life Insurance 4 Company and Health Reimbursement Account Administration in connection with Employee 5 Benefits Program..................................., 144 1.21 Approve appointment of Roger Bobertz for at-large 6 position on Kerrville/Kerr County Airport Board..... 166 1.22 Consider the "Kerr County Management's Discussion 7 and Analysis" for the 2003-2004 audit............... 172 1.23 Reports from the following departments: 8 Information Technology.......................... 195 Road and Bridge................................. 206 9 Facilities and Maintenance...................... 227 Collections..................................... 237 10 4.1 Pay Bills........................................... 240 11 4.2 Budget Amendments................................... 241 4.3 Late Bills.......................................... --- 12 4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports.................. 244 13 5.2 Reports from Elected Officials/Department Heads 245 14 --- Adjourned........................................... 251 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 4 1 On Monday, May 9, 2005, at 9:00 a.m., a regular meeting 2 of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in the 3 Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville, 4 Texas, and the following proceedings were had in open court: 5 P R O C E E D I N G S 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, ladies and 7 gentlemen. Let me call to order this regularly scheduled 8 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court scheduled and 9 posted for this date and time, Monday, May 9th, 2005, at 10 9 a.m. It is just a bit past that time now, so we'll get 11 started. Commissioner Nicholson, I believe you have the 12 honors. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Will y'all join me 14 in a word of prayer and the pledge to the flag? 15 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. At this time, if 17 there is any member of the public or the audience that 18 wishes to be heard on any matter that is not a listed agenda 19 item, we're happy for to you come forward at this time and 20 tell us what's on your mind. If you wish to speak on a 21 listed agenda item, we'd ask that you fill out a 22 participation form. The forms are in the back of the room. 23 It's not essential that you do that, but it does help me to 24 be sure that I don't miss you when that agenda item does 25 come up, so we would ask that you do that. But right now, 5-9-05 5 1 if there's any member of the audience or the public who 2 wishes to be heard on any item that is not a listed agenda 3 item, please come forward at this time to be heard. Seeing 4 no one coming forward, I assume there's no one wishing to be 5 heard on nonagenda items. Commissioner Nicholson, what do 6 you have for us this morning? 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Good rain and a lot 8 of it, and it's very timely. We had three or four brush 9 fires over the last two weeks in -- in west Kerr County. 10 Also, I wanted to say something again about our volunteer 11 fire departments. They -- they do a terrific job for us and 12 save us a lot of money, and several of them I've talked to 13 all have a common problem, that -- it may be all of them, 14 and that's recruitment. Some of the men and women are 15 getting a little bit older, and we need replacements, so if 16 any of you know of anybody that's interested in serving the 17 community in a volunteer firefighter capacity, it's a lot of 18 fun, a lot of work, and it's good community service. That's 19 all. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner 1? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not a thing, sir. 22 Thank you. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner 2? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I want to extend my 25 congratulations to Mr. Todd Bock and Mr. Carl Meek on their 5-9-05 6 1 victory in the recent city elections. I am tickled to death 2 that they attended our meeting on Friday so that they -- 3 before they get sworn in and sit down, they have a little 4 sense of what the issues are that they're going to be 5 confronted with as they embark on their career of service 6 for the City of Kerrville. I hope that this is the 7 beginning of a new chapter. I'm confident that both 8 gentlemen are capable and have the desire to serve the 9 citizens of Kerr County and the City of Kerrville in 10 particular well, and I look forward to opportunities to 11 serve together. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, sir. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. Commissioner 15 3? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just one comment. I'm 17 debating whether I should bring it up or not, 'cause I think 18 it's not confirmed yet, but a pretty good likelihood. A 19 body was found just south of Comfort on the Guadalupe River 20 late last week, and the feeling -- and the gut feeling is 21 that it may be -- Rusty's shaking his head. It's not? 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't feel it will be, 23 but we'll wait and see. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Some feeling that it may 25 be the missing child that was killed in the flood in 1987. 5-9-05 7 1 That's one of the bodies that was not ever recovered, and 2 some feel that it's a likelihood -- it's in an area where -- 3 under a bunch of debris that's been there for many, many 4 years. Lots of big floods have come through there, but no 5 one knows for sure. But if that is the case, that would be 6 a blessing to have that chapter in a lot of people's lives 7 put to bed and behind us forever. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: As Commissioner Nicholson 11 mentioned, oftentimes we need people to assist us in various 12 functions that assist our citizens here in Kerr County. I 13 -- I failed to mention at the last meeting until after the 14 media had concluded their work here about a vacancy that we 15 have with the Alamo Senior Advisory Committee, which is an 16 advisory committee to the Alamo Area Agency on Aging. If 17 you can say that real fast three times, you're much better 18 than I. It's a component of AACOG that -- that's an 19 integral part of a lot of our governmental functions. It 20 deals with senior issues there at AACOG. We have two 21 representatives, and we recently had a vacancy occur. We 22 are seriously looking for -- to fill that post so that we 23 have both of those representatives on board with that 24 advisory committee. If -- if you're aware of anyone that -- 25 that may have an interest in that, we have a very high 5-9-05 8 1 number of seniors in this area, and I think we need to be 2 well represented. If -- if you're aware of anyone that may 3 have an interest in that, I would encourage you to encourage 4 them to contact us so that we might put them in touch with 5 the appropriate individuals at AACOG. Also, hopefully the 6 media will give some attention to our need for this 7 individual and this post to be filled, and maybe we can get 8 some interest created there. Along with Commissioner 9 Williams, I want to congratulate the incoming members of the 10 Kerrville City Council. As all of you are aware, we had a 11 joint meeting with the City Council last Friday, and 12 initiated the discussions that must necessarily take place 13 in order that some of these joint functions and -- and joint 14 facilities that we have are funded and operated each year. 15 Hopefully, now, with the -- with the distraction that the 16 city members had concerning the upcoming election, with that 17 being over and they know where they are and who's going to 18 be on board, we can move forward on a -- on a real 19 meaningful basis to the ultimate benefit of all of the 20 citizens of Kerr County, which, of course, includes all the 21 citizens of Kerrville. So, that's the ultimate goal, and 22 hopefully we can move on with that, and I think everybody on 23 this Court is definitely committed to that. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, one thing I 25 forgot, Region J. We will have -- Region J will be having a 5-9-05 9 1 meeting in Kerrville, which will be the final meeting before 2 we adopt the current water plan, and it'll be on the 19th of 3 this month at U.G.R.A. at 10 o'clock in the morning. It 4 will be several hours. It -- we'll be going over chapters 5 of the plan, final review of those chapters. There will be 6 a public hearing after that, but this will basically be a 7 final review of the regional water plan, and it should be an 8 interesting meeting, for those that are interested in water 9 issues. A lot of changes in our regional plan. For those 10 that follow such things, Senate Bill 3 is the water bill 11 this session. Depending on how many amendments have been 12 attached, taken away, whatever, it's currently 65 pages 13 long. It talks about a lot of things other than water, in 14 my opinion. But, anyway, it's -- and it's going to have an 15 impact, it looks like, on Kerr County and all -- every 16 county, probably, in the state. It's probably more akin to 17 Senate Bill 1; that and Senate Bill 2 was the two previous 18 water bills. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Let's get into our 20 agenda. The first item on the agenda -- we're running a bit 21 behind -- but is Kerr Economic Development Foundation second 22 quarter update. Mr. Overby is here with -- he's the -- is 23 your title "Executive Director" or "President" or both of 24 the KEDF? 25 MR. OVERBY: Well, they gave me the title of 5-9-05 10 1 President of KEDF. So, I mean, that's -- I guess, whatever 2 that comes with. So, anyway, that's the title; that is 3 President of KEDF. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Well, we appreciate you 5 being here today. 6 MR. OVERBY: Thank you, County Judge and 7 Commissioners. Thank you for the opportunity to appear 8 before you today and give you our second quarter report. 9 Again, the Kerr Economic Development Foundation year runs 10 from October 1st through September 30th of each year, and 11 it's a privilege to be before you today. In your contents 12 there that is before you, we want to go ahead and give you, 13 of course, the minutes of the executive and last full board 14 meetings of our organization. Also included in there is a 15 comparison report of the budget of our KEDF for the first 16 six months, and I would like to thank the County for your 17 support to the Kerr Economic Development Foundation this 18 year, the check of $15,000. And our organizations has taken 19 that money this year and been very responsible, and we 20 wanted to assure the Kerr County taxpayers that that money 21 is well-spent for economic development efforts, and I can 22 assure you that we are doing that this year, and reporting 23 back to you. 24 Again, the Kerr Economic Development 25 Foundation has made some -- quite a -- quite a bit of 5-9-05 11 1 contributions and accomplishments this year. One thing on 2 our accomplishments from our last quarter that we want to 3 report to you, in February -- we are continuing to update 4 our web site. Our web site is being used to -- it's a 5 little over a year old, but it's being used as an example 6 for many other communities like ours to have. In Austin, 7 they're using it to help them develop economic development 8 information for business attraction and -- and retention 9 programs. Our web site is also currently, right now in 10 KEDF, being used for all of the TexDOT projects that are 11 going on in Kerr County right now. The $38 million highway 12 improvements that are going on, we are updating folks on our 13 web site continually with updates. You can go there -- for 14 example, you know the new high-rise bridge on Spur 39; you 15 can see those updates weekly, basically, as to how that's 16 going. 17 Another thing that we've done recently is 18 this -- of course, gentlemen, recently in March, the Kerr 19 Economic Development Foundation, if you remember, had 20 22 acres of land out at the airport that's been there for -- 21 oh, for about 40 years, and just recently the KEDF, kind of 22 in a land swap -- basically, we donated 3.025 acres to Kerr 23 County and City of Kerrville and to the Airport Board out 24 there in order to help Mooney Aircraft company to -- to seek 25 a $750,000 Texas Enterprise loan. They're still in that 5-9-05 12 1 process, but that -- that land donation over there made it 2 eligible or made it available to them, the possibility of 3 receiving that loan, so we were glad to do that. The land 4 that was there was mainly that parking lot area over there 5 that -- that Mooney was at, and so we were glad to do that. 6 Also, the value of that was around $45,000, so we were glad 7 to make that happen. And I want to talk about the land 8 transfer that we received from Mooney later on here in our 9 report to you. 10 Also, I'm glad to announce to you the -- the 11 business park that is right across the street from the 12 airport -- as you know, we spent a lot of money on 13 infrastructure, getting utilities out that way about three 14 years ago, and we were all kind of frustrated not having 15 anything happening out there. We are trying to help market 16 that area, but I will be glad to tell you that KEDF was 17 very -- very -- very big part in helping the first sale of 18 12 acres out there, the TexDOT development out there. 19 TexDOT contacted us last summer, and they really asked for 20 what KEDF's -- as far as our opinion, where we thought the 21 best place that they could locate, and we were very helpful 22 in helping them in that direction. So, we're glad to say 23 that there's been some property purchased out there. There 24 are several other people looking at across the business park 25 over there. Again, the airport, as we've talked about, and 5-9-05 13 1 the commerce park, really, those are prime areas in our 2 county that we've got to really seek for some type of 3 development to help on our tax base in our communities. So 4 we're very pleased about that. 5 One thing that we're very glad to give to you 6 today was just recently passed last Wednesday, the Kerr 7 Economic Development Strategic Plan. And this is something 8 that -- our organization has not had a strategic plan in 9 place since 1993, so we -- just recently, our board 10 unanimously -- full board passed our strategic plan. This 11 is our strategic plan through 2005-2010, and we're very 12 excited about that. This has gone into about six months of 13 a lot of research and a lot of meetings, and -- and really 14 trying to come up with a strategic plan that would work for 15 our communities and what goals that we can do, and have a 16 document that will be -- will be -- that we can have -- have 17 some latitude and make changes as we need to go. It's not a 18 perfect document, but it gives us some good direction where 19 we need to go for the next five years, so we're very pleased 20 with that. Our board has worked extremely hard with that. 21 As far as the development of the strategic 22 plan, just a few things I want to highlight on that. Just 23 quickly, the strategic focus of KEDF over for the next five 24 years can be expressed in three -- and this is on Page 4 of 25 our strategic plan. It is to strengthen communication and 5-9-05 14 1 cooperation with our economic development partners. And I 2 think that's one thing that we are really, really working 3 on, and it's been very beneficial. Over the last year, I 4 think that we made a lot of strides in that, and as we make 5 our economic development efforts and develop and implement 6 exceptional retention and business expansion programming, 7 and I do believe that we are on track in doing those type of 8 things. And, of course, achieve and maintain a stable 9 financial condition for KEDF. And I think there are some 10 things that we're looking at that -- over the next few years 11 that we could develop as far as some income coming in for 12 this organization for years to come. That might be very 13 helpful in that organization as we go. 14 But we divided it into five different types 15 of -- and I'm not going to go into all of this, but you can 16 look at this study. Five different sets or -- or action 17 plans or components that we divided into. They are divided 18 into business retention and expansion of our businesses that 19 are here. Of course, they're our primary folks that we want 20 to make sure that they are expanding, and how we could help 21 them. Business attraction or recruitment, marketing 22 incentives, and financing and fundraising. Those are some 23 of those things that we've addressed. We've had some time 24 frames. We look at who's responsible and how we're going to 25 develop this, our goals as we go through, our different 5-9-05 15 1 goals over the next five years with our strategic plan. 2 As we march on, I do want to talk about the 3 -- the next thing is our incentive committee. Of course, 4 the County Commissioners and our County Court, on the 26th 5 of April, '04, charged our organization with the opportunity 6 of looking at business incentives development, to look at 7 government incentives as far as what we can do as our 8 organization to -- for our county and our communities to 9 look at. I'm pleased to tell you that -- and this is not in 10 your packet; if I can approach the Commissioners here. I do 11 want to give you -- this is just very -- sorry they're not 12 all in color for you there right now. There's one there 13 also for your records. 14 Our organization, as we divided up into 15 committees for KEDF, we are looking at what incentives 16 around our area do other communities have in -- in 17 attracting different businesses or attraction for companies 18 to our area. And, again, this is very -- very early in its 19 development here, and this is not anything that's completed, 20 but by the end of -- we're hoping for November, October, 21 that we will be able to come to the Commissioners Court and 22 show you what our research has found out. It will be very 23 -- we'll have some type of Power Point presentation set up 24 for you that you can look at it. But as we're looking at 25 development and programs -- and incentive programs around 5-9-05 16 1 our area, we're finding out that, you know, even though 2 we're frustrated sometimes with where we are here, we're 3 ahead of a lot of certain other areas in our -- in or around 4 us. And, really, we are regional leaders in our area. And 5 we have a long ways to go; we know that, but as we come 6 back, we're going to be able to look at different things. 7 We're going to look at other finance incentives that -- how 8 we can develop and -- and strengthen our incentives that we 9 can have. 10 We have a lot of things in place that we can 11 use. We will look at some of the non-taxes -- non-tax 12 incentives that are in place also, and also some tax 13 incentives that we will be able to look at. And, again, 14 we've kind of given you the research that we're doing around 15 several communities of our size and in our state. And, 16 again, this is just very preliminary. You can look at it 17 when you have a chance, but it'll be very -- more -- a lot 18 more in detail as we're coming down. All right. We'll say 19 that our committees are doing the research in the time, and 20 I think that's why we've been frustrated over the years, is 21 that we just -- it takes time to look at what we can offer 22 as far as business attraction to help attract what our 23 community really could use that would be beneficial; I mean, 24 better paying jobs and those type of attractions to our 25 area. 5-9-05 17 1 So, we're putting in the time, and I think 2 it's going to be very exciting what our report will come to 3 you. And, again, we're hoping around September, October, 4 our KEDF incentive chairman, Roland Pená -- we're very 5 blessed in our community to have him lead our -- our 6 committee, and I've gotten a chance to sit down with him. 7 Roland says, "God, there's tons of research that we're doing 8 here, and it just takes time." And -- but it's going to be 9 very exciting when we bring that to you, and we would 10 encourage our county and our city and our other economic 11 partners to look at it and how we can set our best step 12 forward. 13 Some other things we want to look at, airport 14 property. There is a page there right after the strategic 15 plan. KEDF also -- after the 3.025 acres was donated to our 16 economic partners, KEDF, in exchange, received a 5.60-acre 17 tract of land that's adjacent to our remainder of our 18 property. What we are doing -- that land right now is 19 currently not inside the city limits, but we are looking to 20 get that annexed at this time. That should be in the next 21 60 days. But what we are doing is, we have kind of went 22 ahead and had surveyed about 10 acres off that land that 23 would be the best suitable land that we could use for 24 attracting a company or a manufacture -- light manufacturing 25 company to our community that would be a very nice incentive 5-9-05 18 1 to get something started out there, and this is a very 2 strong possibility that we're looking at. 3 What might be very exciting about it is that 4 it's something that may be a lease or something that we 5 could look at that maybe for 20 years or something. That 6 would be some ongoing money that would be received by our 7 organization that would help it out. And, again, for land 8 that's been sitting for a long time with no development, 9 this is exciting. The good thing about this land that you 10 see up at the front, it's the nearest to where all the 11 utilities are in place. It wouldn't take a lot of utility 12 hookup costs right there to get this land really working and 13 getting it going. So, we're really excited about this 14 tract. We -- we've targeted that area. We have had some 15 companies who've expressed some interest in wanting to come 16 to Kerr County, and this is some of the land that we're 17 going to be looking at to be -- that could be very 18 attractive. It's kind of bushy, kind of overgrown. We are 19 going to be looking at what alternatives, probably coming 20 back to have your ideas on how we can get that cleared off, 21 and if we have some programs or whatever you can help us 22 with, that will be very nice. But we have looked at those 23 areas that could be very worthwhile. 24 Quickly, also, our community is going to be 25 doing a business partner survey. We have not had another -- 5-9-05 19 1 we have not done a survey in about three and a half years, 2 as far as really looking at the details, the main questions 3 that are asked in our community about jobs, challenges such 4 as day care, different -- different things that we need to 5 look at as far as what feedback our businesses can give us 6 in our community. I'm pleased to say to you that to make 7 our advertising -- not our advertising, but our marketing 8 dollars work the best that we can, we are teaming up with 9 Alamo WorkSource, the City of Kerrville, the Chamber of 10 Commerce, and the Convention and Visitor's Bureau to put 11 this survey on. It's -- and to do our homework again. 12 We'll be able to come back to you and give you those survey 13 results here on the next report. But, again, something 14 that's very important that we find out what challenges there 15 are for our -- our community as we face the next couple of 16 years, and especially this next year, that we need to 17 address other things. 18 Quickly, just a quick update on the U.S.D.A. 19 laboratory. Basically, this has been going on for about a 20 year. There there's been a lot of interest in the 21 possibility of -- of relocating the U.S.D.A. facility on 22 Highway 16 to another part in our county. I will tell you, 23 at this time right now, we have had several conversations 24 with Congressman Bonilla's representative, and -- and 25 talking with also Daniel Meza, who is Senator Cornyn's 5-9-05 20 1 representative, and they are asking us to proceed forward in 2 looking at some areas in our county for a possible location, 3 a new location and a new facility. This would be big news 4 if we can have this happen in our area. In fact, this 5 month, Commissioner -- I mean Congressman Bonilla will be 6 introducing into session the feasibility study request in 7 looking at this, and moving this laboratory in our area, so 8 we're real excited about the possibility. And -- and I 9 definitely would like to have any feedback later from you if 10 you have area or two that you think in our county that would 11 be a great place to locate. We are trying to target some 12 areas. We've had one or two areas that we're looking at. 13 But this would be a big area, of course. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Guy, on that topic, are 15 you going to be soliciting, like, resolutions from the Court 16 supporting something like this to -- 17 MR. OVERBY: We've already gotten it. And 18 thank you again for -- Commissioner Letz, the County did 19 give us a resolution in support that came in from all of our 20 communities to this request, and so we're moving forward 21 with that, so we're hoping for some -- some exciting news 22 with that. Feasibility study -- you know how the government 23 process operates. I think that we're moving really quick. 24 Congressman Bonilla really wants to make something happen in 25 our -- in our area right now. And he is, of course, the 5-9-05 21 1 chairman of the Appropriations Committee of Agriculture, so 2 we're excited about -- right now to do that. 3 Also, quickly, the Hill Country Shooting 4 Sports Complex -- Center, of course, that is meeting right 5 now with Jack Burch about that. Of course, they have an 6 agreement with the U.S.A. Shooting Group for about $250,000. 7 We are helping him look at other areas of -- of funding also 8 to help him. That is a -- a big, big win for our community. 9 I don't think we really have got the grasp of having our 10 arms around how big this really could go as far as an 11 economic development -- just ongoing money that would be 12 spent in our community. But we're real excited about that 13 and the tournaments that it can bring and money that can be 14 generated in our hotels and people spending money in our 15 county, which will be fantastic. So, those are ongoing. 16 Other ongoing projects, of course, to just 17 kind of update you quickly, of course, we're still wanting 18 to look down the road eventually to look at getting some 19 type of infrastructure out at James Avery. They're still 20 requesting, you know, to look at help down there to get 21 infrastructure needs, and they're wanting to expand and do a 22 lot of things out that way. So, we're still leading that 23 effort and trying to help in those things. There's a lot of 24 big things out there; we all know that's going on right now 25 in all of our communities. But there's areas out there 5-9-05 22 1 right now for economic development and helping with our 2 businesses and helping them to grow, and to look at new 3 attractions coming in. I'm sorry that -- I'm trying to get 4 you back on schedule. I know I'm going real quickly, but 5 things are happening. The first half of the year, KEDF has 6 had a very busy year. I think we're making a lot of steps, 7 and in the right direction, where we're going. And I'm 8 pleased to be here today. If there's any questions? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Couple comments. 10 MR. OVERBY: Sure. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I want to thank Guy 12 for his report, and I think it's fair to extend our thanks 13 also to Bob Waller for his leadership. 14 MR. OVERBY: Exactly. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I can remember when 16 KEDF used to come in here and report once a year, and they 17 didn't have a lot to report, but you've had a good bit to 18 report today. Just a couple things about some of the things 19 that Guy said. I was in attendance on behalf of Kerr County 20 last week at the -- at a regional rural county meeting with 21 TexDOT with the District Engineer in San Antonio, and we 22 were talking about the -- the items that we have placed on 23 the long-range TexDOT agenda, which goes to the Highway 24 Commission for its -- its blessing. And Highway 39, the 25 section south of the river that we talked about, was placed 5-9-05 23 1 on there. That extension of Spur 100 -- not Spur 100, the 2 Spur 98 coming across to G Street is also on there. But I 3 think of current importance, there were some rumors floating 4 around with respect to the bids on Sidney Baker being kind 5 of high, and that that might impact the project. They may 6 have been high; they will not impact the project. Project 7 is on schedule and will -- will be let or started -- 8 MR. OVERBY: Hopefully July. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- along the same 10 time frame that had earlier been projected by -- by TexDOT. 11 Secondly, with respect to the airport and Highway 27, the 12 District Engineer seems to think that we should not worry 13 too much about that issue; that when we really get down to 14 the crunch, if TexDOT Roads has to sit down with TexDOT 15 Aviation to resolve the issue, it will be resolved, because 16 moving that highway is a very, very expensive project for 17 all concerned, and they have higher things on their plate to 18 deal with. With respect to the U.S.D.A., talk to me 19 sometime this week. I have a couple things I want to share 20 with you about that. 21 MR. OVERBY: Great. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions for 23 Mr. Overby? We thank you for being here. We appreciate the 24 information. 25 MR. OVERBY: Thank you, Judge. Thank you, 5-9-05 24 1 Commissioners. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Good presentation. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: The next item on the agenda is 4 consider and discuss the current coverage of County's 5 automobile liability insurance and how to best cover 6 employees using their personal vehicles. Commissioner Letz 7 asked that this be placed on the agenda. We also have with 8 us a Mr. Chris Faught, who is with Texas Association of 9 Counties as a field representative on insurance matters. 10 I'll turn it over to Commissioner Letz. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the agenda item 12 is pretty self-explanatory. We just had some questions 13 about what the County's, you know, coverage actually is, and 14 then how our employees are covered in using personal 15 vehicles and things of that nature, and I'll turn it over to 16 you, and probably have some questions along the way. 17 MR. FAUGHT: Excellent question, and thank 18 y'all for asking that. When you get this deep into your 19 insurance program, we have to put you at a notch above 20 anybody else, because most people hit insurance and don't 21 want to ask questions or get answers about it. This is kind 22 of a knotty problem, so let me start by telling you what is 23 in place for the County at this time, and some of the 24 ramifications of people using their vehicles -- or our 25 vehicles, county vehicles, on their own time. You currently 5-9-05 25 1 have a business auto policy naming the County as the 2 insured, and it provides tort limits of 100, 300, 100. And 3 that means that if the County is involved in an automobile 4 accident and really messes somebody up as a bodily injury, 5 the most that person can collect is $100,000. If it's two 6 or more people involved in the accident and they're all 7 really messed up, really banged up, the most that the 8 plaintiff can get is $300,000; not more than $100,000 per 9 person. The second $100,000 is property damage, and you can 10 hit a -- gosh, you can hit a Mercedes out here now that's 11 worth more than $100,000, but that's the most that that 12 person can collect in the county, is 100, 300, 100. That's 13 tort limits. 14 It comes from the state Constitution. In 15 fact, it comes from common law back in England, and it has 16 been tried -- it gets tried daily. It may or may not make 17 sense to you why a county has limited liability like that, 18 but it goes back to the old rule that you learned in high 19 school that you can't sue the king. You nowadays can sue 20 the king -- the government, in other words -- but you can't 21 collect more than 100, 300, 100. That covers the County. 22 This policy, in its wording and who is insured, names the 23 employee as an insured, so if an employee driving a county 24 vehicle on county time is involved in a major accident, 25 we're going to provide -- that policy is going to provide 5-9-05 26 1 protection for the County and that employee up to those tort 2 limits. 3 Now, you can see the problem coming. That 4 employee may be more negligent than we are, and they may 5 have a bigger judgment against that employee than the tort 6 limits would apply. For instance, put that employee in 7 their own vehicle doing something for us, going to the post 8 office or going to a seminar or making a run across town in 9 their own vehicle. The County still has coverage under a 10 thing called hired and non-owned coverage. We're still 11 covered up to 100, 300, 100, but in this case the employee 12 in their own vehicle is not covered under the business auto 13 policy at all. At all. So, this does happen. It takes a 14 -- you've got to thread the needle to get coverage to 15 trigger for the County, because the plaintiff is going to 16 have to show that the County was negligent in some way in 17 the operation of that vehicle. 18 The most bizarre case I can think of happened 19 where we had a -- it was a private industry, so it was the 20 operator of a company car who had a -- you know, he had a 21 drinking problem. He was known to be juiced most of the 22 time. He's involved in a fatal accident. During the 23 discovery process, it was brought out that the employer knew 24 this fellow had a drinking problem, and was adjudged 25 negligent in letting him operate that company vehicle on 5-9-05 27 1 company time. So, in a county, it rarely gets triggered, 2 but you always get sued, because most people think a county 3 has deep pockets and that's where the money is, and they're 4 going to get some for themselves, so they will name the 5 County in the lawsuit. So, what you're really buying here 6 is defense coverage, we hope. Defense coverage in case of 7 the County -- or when the County is sued for that employee 8 operating their vehicle on county time and involved in an 9 accident. So, you have that coverage also. 10 But let me discuss something that might be -- 11 that might change all this. Your -- your county policy in 12 use of county property clearly says that no personal use of 13 any county property, including vehicles, is permitted. Of 14 course, it says that. This is -- this is not the employee's 15 vehicle; this is our vehicle. It's the County -- it's a 16 taxpayer vehicle, so, of course, you have that in there. 17 So, if you have county employees who take their county 18 vehicles home with them, and probably some do, the -- the 19 ideal case is that that vehicle goes home and gets parked 20 and does not get used on the weekends unless there's some 21 call for them to do so on the County's behalf. Because if 22 they do that, then according to your written policy, that 23 auto liability policy will consider that vehicle stolen, and 24 it will not trigger coverage. You're not negligent; you 25 would not be liable in a case like that. If somebody steals 5-9-05 28 1 your car and is involved in an accident, you're not 2 negligent. 3 But in this case, you have a written policy 4 about that, which is a good policy. I'm not advocating 5 changing that. But you have a situation where a county 6 employee could be going to H.E.B., involved in a bad 7 accident, and the County has no coverage for that because 8 you have no liability for that. Now, far out case, maybe, 9 in using a pickup truck, but how about your Sheriff's 10 Office? And I'm pretty sure we -- that you allow them to 11 take those vehicles with them, and want them to take those 12 vehicles with them, because cops work 24/7. If there's a -- 13 whether you agree to that or not, if there's a disaster of 14 some type, and a taxpayer sees a Sheriff's Office vehicle 15 parked there who can respond, we want them to respond. 16 That's just normal thinking. We want that Sheriff's Officer 17 responding down the street and stop that or start that. So, 18 we cut a little wider swath on that one; we allow Sheriff's 19 vehicles to be called just 24/7, even if you have a policy 20 about this. Now, then, is that confusing enough? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Going back to the other 22 county vehicles, other than the Sheriff. And, you know, 23 they're on their way home, and then they stop at H.E.B. 24 MR. FAUGHT: Okay, good question. And 25 that's, of course, what happens. That is no longer on 5-9-05 29 1 county business. In fact, worker's compensation will not 2 trigger, because that doesn't cover you until you're on the 3 job. Getting to and from the job is not considered 4 compensable, because that's not on the job. And this auto 5 policy, you know, is that personal, just to and from work? 6 Worker's comp says it is. The law says it is. And, of 7 course, we would defend you on that, but more than likely 8 that employee's not going to have any coverage for that. 9 You might, because you might be negligent in that. How many 10 employees operate county vehicles on other -- I mean, on a 11 take-it-home basis? Are we talking about a lot of them or 12 just a few of them? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Leonard, what do you 14 have? 15 MR. ODOM: Five, and myself. 16 MR. FAUGHT: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Six. 18 MR. ODOM: For emergencies. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The six that go home, 20 and -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Be a couple in Maintenance. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, a couple in 23 Maintenance, so maybe -- less than 10. 24 MR. FAUGHT: Okay. A handful, then. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: About 10, probably. 5-9-05 30 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: 10 or 11. 2 MR. FAUGHT: There is a way to get this 3 problem fairly seamless, at least in your -- in your case, 4 and that is to go to the personal auto policy, the one you 5 have at home, and tell them that you're operating a county 6 vehicle, and ask them to take out an exclusion called -- 7 there's an exclusion in there called use of other autos. 8 It's called the company car endorsement. It's very 9 inexpensive, as long as it's not the Sheriff's vehicle doing 10 this, or the Sheriff's personal auto policy. The 11 underwriter will, more often than not, allow that 12 endorsement for a couple -- $25, $35 a year, and what that 13 does is, in this portal-to-portal coverage, when you're 14 going from work to home or from home to work in a county 15 vehicle, and involved in an accident, if the county policy 16 won't respond, your personal auto policy would. It takes 17 out an exclusion in the personal auto policy. If y'all get 18 interested in that, you can call us, and I'll give you the 19 endorsement number to ask for. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I need to go back to 21 one of the points you made, a little clarification. I'm not 22 sure I understood what you said. I and other Commissioners 23 use our vehicles considerably; I use my -- one of my 24 vehicles extensively in pursuit of my responsibilities as a 25 County Commissioner. What is the limit of my exposure -- 5-9-05 31 1 what exposure do I have if there's an accident while I'm 2 conducting county business using my vehicle? 3 MR. FAUGHT: Okay. Sky's the limit. How 4 bad's the accident? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sky's the limit on 6 me? 7 MR. FAUGHT: On you, the employee, or you, 8 the county official. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 10 MR. FAUGHT: The sky's the limit on that. 11 How bad's the accident? How much money do you have? What 12 can they get out of you, in other words. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: As an individual? 14 MR. FAUGHT: As an individual. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Wonderful. 16 MR. FAUGHT: How much coverage can you buy, 17 in other words. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Wonderful. 19 MR. FAUGHT: The County -- 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You crystallized that 21 little problem. (Laughter). 22 MR. FAUGHT: The County has tort protection. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 24 MR. FAUGHT: You may or may not, depending on 25 the situation. 5-9-05 32 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I probably have 2 the required insurance -- insurance required by state law. 3 MR. FAUGHT: Yes. Even if you had a million 4 dollars, is that enough? You just don't know till you get 5 to the scene of the accident and discover all the things 6 that went on in that accident. And it's how much money they 7 can get out of you. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Most -- to kind of follow 9 up on that a little bit, I think probably we all have -- or 10 supposed to have, anyway -- auto insurance, and I would 11 suspect that just about everyone in this room has listed 12 that their vehicle is for personal use. But -- okay. Do 13 we -- is it advisable for everyone who is an elected 14 official, 'cause every one of them other than the Sheriff 15 uses their -- well, and I guess Leonard -- use their 16 personal cars. Should those all be converted to business? 17 MR. FAUGHT: Yes, they should. Here's what 18 you run by not doing that. On an application for auto 19 coverage, you answer the questions and sign the application. 20 If you -- if you -- if the question says, "How many miles a 21 day do you drive your vehicle," if it's to and from work, or 22 "Do you use it in business, or is it just a family-use 23 automobile," you check a box and sign that. That is 24 discoverable also. And what an insurance company can do is 25 to -- there is a thing called fraud in the inducement, which 5-9-05 33 1 means you signed an application saying you only use the car 2 on Sundays to go to and from church, and what you really do 3 is you answer fire calls as a volunteer fireman in that 4 vehicle, and so the insurance company can, in the extreme 5 case, come back -- and they have to prove fraud, but they 6 can come back and show fraud in the inducement of writing 7 that policy, and deny coverage. 8 That is a real extreme example. What they 9 normally will do is they'll say, "You were involved in 10 rush-hour traffic, and what were you doing there when you 11 were supposed to be using your car only on Sunday or to and 12 from the grocery store?" You say, "Well, I do that all the 13 time," so they say, "Well, then, we've got you misrated and 14 we're going to give you the business use, and you need to 15 pay the additional premium. And, by the way, when the 16 policy comes up for renewal, we're not going to renew it." 17 So they're not going to -- they wouldn't cancel and deny 18 coverage unless they can prove fraud in the inducement, and 19 that it was material. So, yes, you should -- you should 20 tell them how you're using it. And you should take the -- 21 like, your question there, Commissioner, about how much can 22 you be liable for. It's whatever the attorney can prove the 23 degree of your -- your negligence is. Limits are not 24 admissible. Limits are not admissible in the case, so it 25 doesn't matter how much insurance you have. It's how much 5-9-05 34 1 they can get out of you. Insurance is going to pay some of 2 it. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Certainly glad you 4 came down and talked to us this morning. 5 MR. FAUGHT: And I wish there were some good 6 news here. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Leonard had a question. 8 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He's with our Road and 10 Bridge Department. 11 MR. FAUGHT: Yes, sir. 12 MR. ODOM: With Road and Bridge. We have a 13 policy that's -- written policy that our people are to take 14 these vehicles home; they are to be left there, not to be 15 used for private use, and only if we're called out in an 16 emergency, when there's a flood, normally, or tree blown 17 down or something like that. So, would -- I mean, under 18 that, would we be -- would it behoove us to still have that 19 rider policy, I mean, on our own personal insurance? If we 20 have a policy -- a county policy that's been approved by the 21 Court before we ever -- ever gave everybody -- supervisors 22 the right to do that? I mean, is that still mandatory, or 23 should -- should we do that? 24 MR. FAUGHT: Okay. "Mandatory" is not the 25 right answer. It's just good business sense to do that, 5-9-05 35 1 because things do happen. Your employee may be unavailable 2 when somebody needs to get wheels to drive up to see 3 somebody who just got admitted to the hospital, or an 4 emergency situation. And it's the county truck that's out 5 there, and -- "They never said I shouldn't drive it," so 6 17-year-old son gets in it and takes off to the hospital and 7 is involved in an accident. That would clearly be not 8 covered by the -- by your county policy, because -- 9 insurance policy because of the county policy. So, I 10 would -- for that kind of money, I would much rather have 11 that endorsement on my personal policy to let that coverage 12 trigger in that situation. It's not expensive, and it's 13 just good business sense to do that. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Another question. And 15 you may not be able to answer this, but say an employee's 16 going to the bank to make a deposit for some department 17 using their personal vehicle; they have an accident. Okay, 18 their vehicle's under their own insurance. They're covered. 19 Does the employee have any recourse against the County? 20 MR. FAUGHT: Commissioner, I can't think of 21 any. That person they injured could have recourse against 22 the County if they can prove we're -- the County's negligent 23 in some way. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That -- but that would be 25 subject to the limits? 5-9-05 36 1 MR. FAUGHT: Subject to the court limits. 2 And if the employee brought suit against the County, trying 3 to prove -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess what I'm thinking 5 is that the County's requiring them to use their personal 6 vehicle. 7 MR. FAUGHT: Yes. All right. And all the 8 cases I can think of are too bizarre to mention, but if that 9 county -- if that employee did bring suit against the 10 County, do you have the higher non-ownership coverage which 11 would allow defense coverage? Yeah. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: But, basically, the employee 13 would be relying upon their own personal automobile coverage 14 to protect themselves. 15 MR. FAUGHT: That's right. Pretty much 16 bottom line here is the County stays protected through all 17 of these situations. If the County's sued for an automobile 18 liability loss, more than likely we've got coverage in 19 there. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Any more questions for this 21 gentleman? Don't want to know any more bad news? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think he's cast a 23 large enough pall on the situation. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Faught, we appreciate you 25 being here. 5-9-05 37 1 MR. FAUGHT: Thank y'all very much. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm not sure what this is 3 going to trigger, but it's certainly been enlightening to a 4 lot of us, and I'm sure there's some thought that's going to 5 be triggered by this. We do appreciate you being here. 6 MR. FAUGHT: Y'all are doing well in the 7 management of your risk, and I know our underwriters like 8 you; our claims department likes you, so that's -- that 9 means you're doing something right, so we appreciate you 10 doing that. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: We're glad to hear that. 12 Thank you, sir. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. 14 MR. FAUGHT: Yes, sir. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move on to the next 16 agenda item, consider and discuss authorizing the Sheriff to 17 initiate a reserve deputy program. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's pretty well what 19 it is, Judge, unless you have questions. Local Government 20 Code says the permission to do that has to be granted by the 21 Court, and I'm asking for, to start out with, about 10 22 positions. Attached to those are the requirement that they 23 also have to have -- or have to be bonded like elected 24 officials in a certain amount. We have that in the budget 25 that I think the -- the County should pay that bonding 5-9-05 38 1 license and that. And there's no benefits. The 2 requirements are they're still going to be certified peace 3 officers. Not just John Q. Citizen can do it. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me ask about benefits, 5 especially since we've got Mr. Faught here. Worker's 6 compensation coverage. Are we excluded from providing them 7 with worker's compensation coverage under this language that 8 they're not eligible for participation in a program provided 9 by the County that's normally considered a financial benefit 10 of full-time employment? 11 MR. FAUGHT: Are they to be on the payroll? 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They would not be on the 13 payroll. They're volunteers. 14 MR. FAUGHT: Volunteers, okay. They're not 15 automatically covered, but they can be by endorsement. And 16 this would apply to volunteer S.O., volunteer fire 17 department people, any other -- election people, anybody 18 else that's volunteer. You can add those by endorsement for 19 worker's comp. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: And by adding them to coverage 21 for worker's comp, it doesn't violate this eligibility for 22 participation of -- of what would otherwise be considered a 23 financial benefit? That's really my question. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Eligibility -- 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Subsection (b)(1). 5-9-05 39 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It just says that -- 2 MR. FAUGHT: Not really, because the worker's 3 comp is written to provide coverage for the employer for 4 employee injury, so the employee's not going to benefit. 5 They'll get their medical bills paid, but they wouldn't 6 benefit. There's no gain, so probably -- that's probably 7 considered retirement and pension fund. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. And I believe 9 the County already has an endorsement on the volunteer fire 10 departments. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Volunteer fire departments. 12 We -- yes, we do. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: So I would ask that 14 there be an endorsement of these people that are doing that; 15 they would be covered by worker's comp. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: When they're in a duty status? 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: When they're in a duty 18 status. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the estimated 21 annual bonding cost? 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If you were looking at 23 some of the ones last year, a $2,000 bond is normally about 24 20 bucks a year. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Couple hundred dollars -- 5-9-05 40 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- we're talking about. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Sheriff, the general order 4 that you attached to our materials, is that general order 5 presently in effect? 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That was -- is the 7 current policy that the Sheriff's Office had when we adopted 8 our policy manual three years -- four years ago now. It's 9 in the middle of being revised where we're going to upgrade 10 and do all that. Our entire policy manual is going through 11 a revision, but right this minute, that is what's in effect, 12 and it's just the guidelines. However, the reserve programs 13 have worked. The only other thing is, years ago the 14 Sheriff's office did have a reserve program. Okay, I can 15 not find where there was any court order that gave authority 16 for it or how many people were on it, so the only thing I 17 would also add is that in this order, if you approved the 18 reserve program up to, you know, 10 reserves, that it null 19 and void any previous ones so we don't get into anything 20 else that it -- you know. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the Court has the 22 authority to impose a limit. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: But not a minimum number; just 25 a maximum number. 5-9-05 41 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And I would just ask 4 that that change. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: The general order that you've 6 got in place and that you're in the process of revising, is 7 it your intention to carry forward in the new order that all 8 of the -- all of the members of the reserve force must be 9 TCLEOSE-qualified? 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move approval. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. I have a 14 question. How many -- how many -- are there a lot of people 15 out there that are TCLEOSE-certified, that can volunteer for 16 something like this? 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There are. But this is 18 going to be a very select deal; they're going to go through 19 the same application process, same everything that we do for 20 all our current full-time deputies. We do have several 21 retired officers, and more that are retiring through this 22 county, whether it be police department, D.P.S., or our own 23 department that are interested in doing reserve program. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sheriff, I'm not 25 opposed to it; I just want to ask a question and see if 5-9-05 42 1 somebody can shed some light on it, by asking you about 2 whether these folks will be TCLEOSE-qualified. My question 3 is, at whose expense will they gain the necessary requisite 4 training to become TCLEOSE-qualified? 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, most of the time 6 in, like, a hire now -- all the ones I hire now, full-time 7 deputies are already TCLEOSE-qualified at this time. Their 8 continuing education hours we provide, and I can still 9 provide that through our training courses and curriculum at 10 no expense. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I take it you're looking 12 at mostly retired -- local retired law enforcement people. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And the main goal of 14 this is also to help enhance the courthouse security issues 15 that we have. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What's the potential 17 for this to either reduce costs in the Sheriff's Department 18 or contain costs? 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It would depend on how 20 many reserves we can actually get and how qualified they 21 are, okay? Retaining costs may be a better -- better 22 scenario right now than reducing any type of costs, because 23 in the next year's budget, I was going to make our uniform 24 allowance a little bit more normally, but I still think the 25 County, since these people are volunteers, should be, you 5-9-05 43 1 know, fitted with the uniform and all the other 2 qualifications, and we just absorb that in our training and 3 uniform budgets. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Eventually, on a long-term 5 basis, it will have the ability to hopefully reduce 6 full-time compensated manpower requirements, will it not, 7 Sheriff? 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Only for courthouse 9 security. For patrol, I would say no. For patrol, I would 10 say it may add us, you know, much needed -- just that we'd 11 like to have two-man units at times, okay? Or if we did 12 have somebody, where we were running short due to a vacation 13 or school, I could possibly call in, the -- the main thing 14 that's going to do is, most people are going to either be 15 fully retired or have other jobs somewhere, and they would 16 still required by TCLEOSE to put in 20 hours a month into 17 the reserve program, and so it's going to be more of a 18 scheduling deal. And they are volunteers, so what 20 hours 19 is going to be hard to schedule. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner, does your motion 21 include worker's comp coverage, and does it place any limit 22 on the number of officers to participate? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, it will be a maximum 24 of 10 at this time, and it would add the worker's comp for 25 volunteers. 5-9-05 44 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, we have a motion and 3 second with those stipulations. Any further question or 4 discussion? All in favor of that motion, signify by raising 5 your right hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Thank 10 you very much, Sheriff. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Thank you. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's come to Item 4, consider 13 and discuss the expenditure of surplus Capital Outlay funds 14 in the jail budget. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Trying to take care of 16 some things now that maybe we won't have to take care of in 17 the next budget year. It would help. And y'all saw our 18 radio -- portable radio issues in the jail with those older 19 radios going out. I have $6,500 left in the Capital Outlay 20 that was not spent on the camera system and camera upgrades 21 in the jail, and I would like to use that $6,500, reallocate 22 it to replace 10 portable radios with batteries in the jail, 23 to also replace two computer monitors that we have. And the 24 T.S.G., Software Group, has come out with a new visitation 25 processing part, which is in your attachment. It's for a 5-9-05 45 1 driver's license scanner for when visitors for inmates come 2 up to visit. Instead of having to hand-enter all the 3 information and run the checks on them locally in-house, 4 with the driver's license scanner, you just scan their 5 driver's license into the system; it automatically puts them 6 in the system visiting that inmate, and it automatically 7 runs in-house warrant checks on them, and is just a large 8 time-consuming deal for the jail staff. The other issue -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Rusty, let me ask you 10 a question. You said it automatically runs an in-house 11 check -- 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: In-house. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Huh? 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: In-house. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: In-house warrant 16 checks? 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: "In-house" meaning 19 county warrants or -- 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: County. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It doesn't run the 22 N.C.I.C. or any of that? 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We still have to do 24 that, which we do now. But it will run it automatically in 25 our system against all our warrant databases. 5-9-05 46 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I talked with the Sheriff 2 a little bit about this the other day, and I have no problem 3 with this, with the understanding that when his budget comes 4 up, these things -- I mean, there's going to be very 5 little capital expenditures in there. You know, he and I 6 are -- I think have a meeting of the minds at this time. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The way I have my budget 8 preparations right now, just to give you a little 9 forewarning, there is no Capital Outlay expenses in either 10 the Sheriff's Office or the jail for next year. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're getting to where 12 we like this guy a little bit. (Laughter.) 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll move approval -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- of the budget request. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The last part of that, 17 you may want to talk to our I.T. guy, which is the contract 18 for the redundant connectivity services, broadband that 19 enhances our -- our -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's the next -- we 21 have another agenda item. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Is there? I think 23 that's on his, but it's -- our cost would also come out of 24 that line item this year. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and second 5-9-05 47 1 for approval of the agenda item as presented. Any question 2 or discussion? All in favor of that motion, signify by 3 raising your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's 8 move to Item 5, consider, discuss, and approve the broadband 9 services for the courthouse in conjunction with the Law 10 Enforcement Center. Mr. Trolinger? 11 MR. TROLINGER: Good morning. I see a need 12 exists for broadband -- additional broadband. With the 13 connectivity that we have now with DSL, it's just not 14 available. It's not enough. There's not enough space for 15 all the users. I can see future and current needs. Looking 16 at the overall big picture for the County, I see that we can 17 save, in the long-term, quite a bit by changing to 18 Time-Warner Cable, and that's what I'm recommending to do. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can you explain what 20 you're talking about? (Laughter.) 21 MR. TROLINGER: Basically, if you want to 22 have high-speed internet at home, you have choices. You 23 have -- if you live in town, you have DSL, you have Road 24 Runner, or you can get satellite. Overall, each has its 25 strength and weakness, but for the County, Time-Warner gives 5-9-05 48 1 us the best coverage and the best cost benefit. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What's the 3 "broadband" mean? 4 MR. TROLINGER: Broadband -- a dial-up modem 5 is a slow, narrow-band connection. And broadband is -- what 6 is it, 1.5? 7 AUDIENCE: 1.5. 8 MR. TROLINGER: Okay, it's a 1.5 KBS or 9 larger -- MBS or larger connectivity. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Does it solve the 11 problem of accidental or routine disconnects? You don't get 12 disconnected as you do with dial-up? 13 MR. TROLINGER: Well, it eliminates that, 14 yes, sir. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The two advantages for 16 the Sheriff's Office on this, and why we're needing it, one 17 is we've had -- we've got a T-1 line running now from here 18 to the Sheriff's Office and jail that connects us. We've 19 already had problems with it going down. When it does, we 20 are totally out of service at the jail; everything goes back 21 to handwriting on -- written on paper. We lose our entire 22 mainframe. This would give the -- the capability that 23 they'll both be there, and we wouldn't lose that. The other 24 thing is, our AFIS machine, our automated fingerprint 25 machine that goes to Austin to send in fingerprints, this -- 5-9-05 49 1 right now, we're paying -- what the monthly fee is currently 2 is $194.61 a month for that phone line connection, and this 3 would do away with that connection. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the D.P.S. 5 connection? 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's the D.P.S. 7 connection to Austin. It would do away with that on the 8 CJIS and AFIS fingerprints. So we would -- you know, true, 9 it's going to cost us a little bit more monthly, but it does 10 away with that $194 a month, too. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How much greater is 12 bandwidth-capability cable versus DSL through K.T.C.? 13 MR. TROLINGER: About twice as fast. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How much? 15 MR. TROLINGER: About twice as fast. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Twice as fast, 17 meaning it's about twice as wide? 18 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. And the capability 19 of expanding, again, beyond the plan that I've chosen with a 20 phone call, I believe. Is that right? 21 AUDIENCE: Right. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Does this change the 23 basic address for Kerr County? 24 MR. TROLINGER: It will. It will. There 25 will be a transition period through -- through June. I 5-9-05 50 1 expect by July to have the government addressing. Our 2 domain will change to kerr.co.tx.us. And what that does is, 3 instead of being a post office -- say the post office 4 recognizes us as Kerrville Telephone Company dot com right 5 now, which is what our address is now. We'd have a 6 government domain and e-mail addressing. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And this sets a basic 9 foundation for the future growth, such as if we do put 10 cameras in the courthouse through courthouse security and 11 that, it gives a bandwidth that we can pull those up at the 12 -- at the office to be able to tell what's going on. If we 13 ever go to computers in the vehicles, it gives a bandwidth 14 needed for that, for downloading photographs and enhancing 15 all that. It gives your foundation to grow more. Right 16 now, we don't have that. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Explain a little 18 bit -- one of you or the other, explain a little bit about 19 the M.H.M.R. connectivity and line that you're proposing 20 here. 21 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. M.H.M.R. has 22 provided the County -- or the jail, excuse me -- a video 23 teleconferencing computer. Basically, it's a camera and a 24 microphone, and it's set up in the jail's inmate law 25 library, where that camera sits on the desk with the 5-9-05 51 1 computer, and that inmate's able to video conference -- or 2 would be able to video teleconference to the M.H.M.R. 3 without a representative having to come out, go through the 4 visitation process, and then be exposed to the inmate. That 5 equipment's in place now. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: To do the evaluations on 7 inmates and that, and the M.H.M.R. service that they're 8 providing. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Privacy factor is to 10 your satisfaction? 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 12 MR. TROLINGER: And it's a secure VPN, or a 13 virtual private network connection. It is encrypted. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So -- this is probably a 15 really stupid question. This means it's a cable system 16 versus a phone line system? 17 MR. TROLINGER: Well, in this case, the jail 18 has no -- no kind of broadband at all right now. They just 19 rely on one dedicated line between here and the jail. 20 There's one dedicated line. Then that dedicated line is 21 used to provide the connection out to the internet, and in 22 order to get this camera -- this video teleconference camera 23 working, we need to assign it its own address -- its own 24 internet address. And to do that, we basically need -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess what I'm saying 5-9-05 52 1 is -- or asking, so every place -- I mean, it seems to me 2 that this is a change that's going to cost somebody 3 something to connect. Instead of having a phone line out 4 here, we need to have a cable line everywhere. 5 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. And on Page 2 of 6 my -- after my cover letter there on Page 2, I've broken out 7 the -- the savings and the costs county-wide. There -- 8 there are some more that are future; I didn't feel they 9 deserved to be on here, but these are the basic costs that 10 we pay today; the dial-up modems, the K.T.C. DSL, the Adult 11 Probation connection, which is another dedicated line. And 12 that, in itself -- this Adult Probation T-1 line, which is 13 $63 per month, we would eliminate. And, in addition, right 14 now on that line, they do not have access to what are called 15 images; mug shots, pictures of the -- that are available on 16 our system, and they'll gain that benefit, and also benefit 17 in speed. So, there's a -- there's a laundry list of items 18 there, and they all bottom out for the courthouse at about 19 $1,000 per year in savings over the existing -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, the courthouse will 21 save $1,000 a year, and the jail will cost -- what's the 22 second thing over -- 23 MR. TROLINGER: The $2,104.68 per month for 24 the jail. After reduce -- after eliminating the separate 25 dedicated line that we're paying $2,300 for right now per 5-9-05 53 1 year that does nothing more than communicates with D.P.S. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, the bottom figure 3 there, county-wide change, $1,110? 4 MR. TROLINGER: Correct. That's the total 5 impact to the County budget annually. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Annually. "Annual" is -- 7 MR. TROLINGER: Through the end of October -- 8 through the end of September, excuse me. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: And that gives us a much 10 broader foundation to work from? 11 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that going to permit us at 13 some point in the future to possibly reconfigure other 14 telecommunication functions that might reduce some costs 15 there? 16 MR. TROLINGER: It gives you -- 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Video conferencing with 18 inmates and pretrial hearings and things like that, yes. 19 With that technology, it would give you that, broadband. 20 MR. TROLINGER: There's a whole list of items 21 that I didn't bother with, but the -- having the bandwidth 22 is the foundation for all the technology. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: It opens up the possibility 24 of -- of a lot of other things that -- 25 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. 5-9-05 54 1 JUDGE TINLEY: -- we don't yet have in place, 2 but we could very well be looking at. 3 MR. TROLINGER: That we could not use today. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Ms. Werlein? She 5 indicated she may have had a question with regard to the 6 M.H.M.R. 7 MS. WERLEIN: It wasn't a question. It 8 was -- you asked about privacy. And, actually, this 9 improves privacy, because at this point, some of the 10 consumers in the jail have to go to the center. They're 11 brought to the center, and they're often brought in 12 handcuffs, and so it allows these opportunities to occur 13 through teleconferencing with the psychiatrist, plus if our 14 person on call for that day is out on another call, the jail 15 may be waiting, and so this facilitates and expedites things 16 that are going on. So, I actually -- I think it will 17 probably add to the reduction in costs, because you wouldn't 18 be transporting people back and forth and having a jailer 19 tied up and officer tied up. 20 MR. TROLINGER: That's correct. And that's 21 one of the unrealized benefits that I just don't have a 22 number to list for you. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's -- on an 24 annualized basis, the cost will be about probably $2,500 25 additional in future budgets? This is -- this $1,100 is -- 5-9-05 55 1 MR. TROLINGER: For next year. The -- for 2 next year. The difference between the -- I believe the 3 annual cost will be about $1,000 annually. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: $1,000 annually? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Additional. 6 MR. TROLINGER: Additional. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, okay. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: County-wide? 9 MR. TROLINGER: County-wide, yes, sir. And 10 that's not taking into consideration any of the benefits 11 like M.H.M.R. that are just -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Any long-term commitments 13 when we make the change? Or is it like a -- I mean, do we 14 have to sign a contract? 15 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. It's a three-year 16 contract, and Time-Warner's here to answer questions on the 17 contract if you do have any. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can you basically go 19 over -- can they go over the basic terms? I mean, what 20 we're contracting? 21 MR. TROLINGER: Okay. Let me introduce 22 Crystal Bledsoe with Time-Warner Cable. 23 MS. BLEDSOE: Good morning. Thanks for 24 having me. Basically, what this outlines is, we'll be 25 connecting three megabits per second on the download, and 5-9-05 56 1 1.5 megabits per second on the upload. Basically -- 2 MR. TROLINGER: I was speaking English, 3 right? (Laughter.) 4 MS. BLEDSOE: Sorry. Can I ask Ryan to come 5 up here and help me as well? He's our technical guru, and I 6 am -- okay, what questions did you have? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What are the terms of the 8 contract? 9 MS. BLEDSOE: It's a three-year term, 36 10 months. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are there any outs? I 12 mean, if we're not happy with the service, is there -- 13 MS. BLEDSOE: Absolutely. Now, there is a 14 $250 cancellation fee, but ideally -- particularly if, for 15 any reason, you are unhappy, Mr. Trolinger or any one of you 16 would be welcome to give us a call; I would do everything I 17 could to work that out. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: So we do have the right to 19 cancel the contract upon payment, worst case scenario, of a 20 $250 cancellation fee? 21 MS. BLEDSOE: Yes, sir. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are the fees 23 guaranteed -- the rates guaranteed for 36 months? 24 MS. BLEDSOE: Yes, sir, they are. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions? 5-9-05 57 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. I -- I pay my 2 Time-Warner bill at the drive-through window. Would you 3 eliminate that one -- stupid one-dollar deal? (Laughter.) 4 MS. BLEDSOE: If I could, I would. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Well, we're 6 going downhill here. 7 MS. BLEDSOE: I'm sorry. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hey, that is the -- 9 that's the craziest thing I've ever seen in my entire life, 10 and I have seen some -- I mean, look who I work with. I 11 have seen some crazy things. That's goofy. Y'all need to 12 do away with that. 13 MS. BLEDSOE: It will certainly be addressed 14 with management, I promise. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 16 MS. BLEDSOE: Absolutely. 17 MR. TROLINGER: Thanks, Crystal. 18 MS. BLEDSOE: Thank you. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I would move 21 that the Court authorize Mr. Trolinger to contract with -- 22 on behalf of Kerr County, contract with Time-Warner Cable 23 for connectivity services that links the Sheriff and the 24 courthouse and district attorneys and all these good things, 25 I guess on Road Runner, as opposed to whatever road we're 5-9-05 58 1 running on right now. Is that correct? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And authorize him to sign 3 the contract? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And authorize the 5 County Judge to sign the contract, which will contain 6 guaranteed rates for three years. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And, Commissioner, I'd 9 be delighted to second that if, in your motion, you 10 outline -- get that dollar out of there. (Laughter.) No, 11 outline where the $1,110.48 is going to come from. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a really good 13 point, Commissioner. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I assumed it was 16 coming out of the Sheriff's budget. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Sheriff's portion's 18 coming out of the Sheriff's budget. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. That portion 20 that you mentioned earlier, is that included in this 1,110? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 900. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I haven't seen his. I 23 know what ours for the Sheriff's office to the courthouse, 24 what that cost was going to be. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It was 900. 5-9-05 59 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 992. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 992. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There's a savings on 4 the courthouse side. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And that's what I had 6 set to come out of our budget. That's coming out of that 7 unexpended Capital Outlay, to pay that right off. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So we don't know the 9 answer? 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: So I don't know where 11 John has that 992 plugged in, but that was going to be the 12 cost for us. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, can we -- can 14 we just table this for a little while until we get some good 15 numbers put together, and come back with it? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Once we determine where it's 17 going to come from? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, right. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Here's the man that's going to 20 tell us right here. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, this -- I feel like 22 that the -- you know, the $1,100 will be spread through 12 23 months for '05-'06, so we -- I anticipate budgeting pro rata 24 portions of that to -- to the end users, which will be the 25 Sheriff and the Probation, Road and Bridge. 5-9-05 60 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: District Attorneys? 2 MR. TOMLINSON: Anybody that uses the -- the 3 broadband. So, it would be a matter of -- of those 4 departments budgeting -- or us helping them budget for the 5 $1,100. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: What about the pro rata cost 7 for the remainder of this year, if we're going to initiate 8 that service right away? Are there adequate funds in the -- 9 in these various departments' budgets in order to absorb the 10 cost for this particular year, the pro rata -- 11 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't see a problem with 12 that for remainder of the year. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, the worksheet 14 that Mr. Trolinger provided shows a savings, June through 15 October, of $231 on the County side of the equation, and 16 expenditures of $996 for the jail in the time frame June 17 through October. So, was my assumption right that that $996 18 comes out of the Sheriff's budget someplace? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's my question. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Say what? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, $992 is in here. 22 There's $4. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: That's out of his capital 24 expenditure that we approved under Item Number 4. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 5-9-05 61 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Does it come off of 2 this $1,110.48? Do you reduce the $1,110.48 by $996? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's next year's 4 budget. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: That's next year's budget. 6 MR. TOMLINSON: $1,100 is relative to '05-'06 7 budget. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 9 MR. TOMLINSON: Not this year's. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If I understand this, 11 there's no additional cost for the courthouse, and the 12 Sheriff is going to cost $996.17, and he would -- he's 13 already come up with $992 of that, so it's $4.17 that needs 14 to come out. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: 929 was the figure I 16 had. If you need to change that 929 to the 996, there's 17 still a few dollars left in that Capital Outlay that would 18 absorb that for the remainder of the year. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That answered the 20 question. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I thought Mr. 22 Trolinger said that this was from -- for the remainder of 23 the year through September. 24 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. These numbers that 25 I've -- that I've put on this chart are June through 5-9-05 62 1 October. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm confused now. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, I understood that this 4 was an annual savings -- or annual additional cost. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Right-hand column, I think, is 6 annualized. 7 MR. TOMLINSON: Right. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the 1,100 that he was 9 speaking of. That'll be in the next budget year. The June 10 through October is the next-to-the-last column from the 11 right, and shows the courthouse savings of 230 this year, 12 990 additional cost to the Sheriff's Office, and that's what 13 he's already agreed to absorb out of his existing Capital 14 Outlay. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So -- so, in this 16 court order, the County -- you're going to expend how much 17 money? What's the -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Additional? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. How much money? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: $996.17, of which the 21 Sheriff has already said he agreed to pick it up in an 22 earlier -- 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- earlier item. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. Thank you. 5-9-05 63 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Now we have a motion and a 2 second. Any other question or discussion? All in favor of 3 that motion, signify by raising your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Thank 8 you, Mr. Trolinger. 9 MR. TROLINGER: You're welcome. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: We've now got to move to a 11 timed item at 10:00. I will recess the Commissioners Court 12 meeting at this time, and I will convene and open a public 13 hearing on road changes in various locations in Kerr County, 14 which was scheduled for 10 a.m. 15 (The regular Commissioners Court meeting was closed at 10:13 a.m., and a public hearing 16 was held in open court, as follows:) 17 P U B L I C H E A R I N G 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there any member of the 19 public that wishes to be heard with respect to road name 20 changes in various locations in Kerr County, as public 21 notice was previously given? If there's any member of the 22 public wishing to be heard on that, please come forward at 23 this time. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Seeing no one coming forward 5-9-05 64 1 or otherwise trying to gain my attention on this matter, I 2 will close the public hearing. 3 (The public hearing was concluded at 10:14 a.m., and the regular Commissioners Court 4 meeting was reopened.) 5 - - - - - - - - - - 6 JUDGE TINLEY: And I will reconvene the 7 Commissioners Court meeting and go to the next timed item, 8 which is Item 10, to accept bids for the County depository 9 contract and refer same to the County Treasurer and/or 10 County Auditor. There was only one bid submitted with 11 respect to the County depository contract. That was 12 submitted by Security State Bank and Trust. It's quite 13 voluminous. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Did you read all 15 that, Judge? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: No, I just now opened it. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move we accept all bids 18 and refer them to the Treasurer for review and 19 recommendation, and Auditor. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I second that emotion. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 22 receipt and acceptance of the bid submitted for the County 23 depository contract, and reference the same to the County 24 Treasurer and Auditor. Any question or discussion? All in 25 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 5-9-05 65 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's 5 come back up to Item Number 6, if we might; consider, 6 discuss, and take appropriate action with reference to 7 awarding a bid for the cleanup of Flat Rock Lake to 8 Excavation Technologies, Incorporated, in an amount not to 9 exceed $44,000. Commissioner Williams? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Judge. 11 This is a follow up on our requesting bids, and bids were 12 received for the cleanup of Flat Rock Lake, the debris out 13 at the lake. We had two bids. One was for $287,000; the 14 other was -- from an outfit in Jackson, Mississippi, and the 15 other one was from Excavation Technologies in Alvin, Texas, 16 for $69,200. Since we received that bid, I've taken a look 17 at the scope of the project, and I've had discussions, 18 particularly with Commissioner Letz, about other things that 19 we have long-range planned for the park and the lake, and 20 what I'm asking the Court to do is agree to reduce the scope 21 of the cleanup of the lake, which essentially would get out 22 of the water submerged -- some of the submerged -- most 23 dangerous submerged logs and stumps and overhanging limbs 24 that break off and fall in the water. But of equal, if not 25 greater, importance would be to remove the big, huge conduit 5-9-05 66 1 pipes that were in Third Creek and were washed away in the 2 2002 flood and have resided in the middle of the lake ever 3 since that time. 4 Over that period of time, Mr. Odom has looked 5 at that on a couple occasions and concluded that he's not 6 equipped properly to get those pipes out of the water. This 7 would get those pipes out of the water, and by reducing the 8 scope of the project, we would reduce it down from the bid 9 that Excavation Technologies people provided us, which I 10 think was $69,200, down to $44,000, and we would reduce the 11 time frame for the projects from nine weeks down to four -- 12 about five weeks, taking about a month off the project. We 13 would be bringing that material to shore; the pipes, 14 particularly, and if they are in reasonable condition, at 15 least one of them, Mr. Odom believes that he may have some 16 future use for that pipe. If not, they'll be cut up and 17 disposed of. Any wood that's brought to shore -- logs, 18 limbs, stumps and so forth -- after a period of drying out, 19 they would either be burned or chipped up for future use. 20 Now, by reducing the scope of the project 21 down from $69,000 originally to $44,000, this gives us some 22 extra room -- some extra dollar room to consider how we're 23 going to bridge Third Creek in the future and tie our two 24 pieces of property together. We had planned to use the rail 25 cars that are in use on a temporary bridge in Hermann Sons, 5-9-05 67 1 and Commissioner Letz had negotiated with TexDOT their 2 willingness to give us those rail cars at the completion of 3 the new bridge and to move them someplace, some location of 4 our designation. That would either be the park or Road and 5 Bridge yard or whatever. And whenever I discussed it with 6 the regional engineer last week and asked him to consider, 7 if we were to build the piers necessary to span Third Creek, 8 could we impose on TexDOT to spot those rail cars on the new 9 piers, he didn't commit, but he said, "We'll think about it 10 and see what the costs are," and so forth and so on. So, by 11 reducing the scope of the project, this gives us some extra 12 room to either proceed with this project, which -- with the 13 span of the two pieces of land, Flat Rock Lake Park land, 14 use the FEMA money that we already have in place for that -- 15 for the replacement of that bridge, take care of the lake 16 problems -- immediate and worst of the lake problems, and 17 give us a leg up on the future. That's what I'm proposing. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just might add one 19 thing to this. I believe Commissioner Williams and I talked 20 about all this. It just seemed to me that -- as I 21 understand it, I think everyone has agreed now that TexDOT 22 is moving -- will move the railroad cars to Kerrville. If 23 they have to move them here, it sure seems to me, with the 24 difficulty in moving those things and lifting them, if we 25 could get them -- just move them one time, I mean, get them 5-9-05 68 1 and put them in place, as opposed to moving them and then 2 have to move them again and get them in place, it would 3 probably be a savings of -- what's that big crane cost, 4 Leonard, whenever we bring it out of San Antonio? 5 MR. ODOM: $3,000 just to move it, and $300 6 or $400 an hour. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. So, I mean -- you 8 know, and we can get TexDOT to get with -- tell TexDOT, 9 "Well, you'll have to bring the crane up here to lift it 10 where we want it. While the crane's here, we might be able 11 to just put them in place and, you know, save, you know, 12 four, five, $6,000 if we can get it all done at one time. 13 And I think, between -- I think Commissioner Williams has a 14 way to come up with the money to do that, along with the 15 FEMA money, so I'm in favor of this change. Only thing I 16 would add is that when Road and Bridge is retrieving the -- 17 the big culverts out of Flat Rock Park, if he could also 18 pick up the one on County property, Third Creek just north 19 of -- of Highway 27 that I look at every time I come to 20 town? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The one that's over 22 there by the Little League field? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, it's kind of down 24 on the corner of that property -- County property over 25 there. 5-9-05 69 1 MR. ODOM: We thought that was an exercise 2 yard for the Little League field. (Laughter.) Now I know 3 it's not. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: With respect to -- 5 with respect to the spotting of the rail cars, if we get did 6 piers built, maybe -- it might boil down to the State having 7 paid the activation fee to get the crane down to Hermann 8 Sons to pick them up and load them, and we may only have, 9 then, to bear the hourly cost from that point forward, which 10 would be a pretty good savings on our part. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: If they're going to have to 12 move them to Kerrville, aren't they going to be responsible 13 for offloading them when they bring them here? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's -- yes, sir. 15 That's what I'm saying. We might only have to be engaged in 16 the extra hours it takes and time involved to -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So set them. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Setting them on the 19 piers. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Spot them. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I -- yes, sir. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just have a quick 23 question. After -- after we went through the -- the bids 24 and sent them out, and people bid and came back in, can we 25 change the scope of the project? 5-9-05 70 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would ask the 2 County Attorney to confirm that. I've talked with -- I've 3 talked with the folks who gave us the bid, and indicated to 4 them that, more than likely, if we awarded the bid, we would 5 reduce the number of hours. And that's really what it is; 6 it's reducing the number of hours they're going to be 7 engaged on our behalf from almost nine weeks down to about 8 five weeks. Mr. County Attorney, do you have any heartburn 9 over that? 10 MR. EMERSON: I think if you change anything 11 beyond the basic terms of the contract, then you'd have to 12 put it out for rebid. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We don't have a contract. 14 MR. EMERSON: Well, beyond the initial 15 advertisement for bids. Now, I don't know what the initial 16 advertisement was, whether it was a total -- total job 17 inclusive, or it was per-hour or how it was worded. But -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, let's see what 19 the ad says. The ad said, "Debris removal, Flat Rock Lake. 20 Specifications may be picked up..." And it has to do with 21 -- has to do with the cleanup, period. Debris removal, Flat 22 Rock Lake. That's what it said. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: The bid from Excavation was 24 bid on basically an hourly basis, after some initial setup 25 and take-down charges. It was bid on an hourly basis, and I 5-9-05 71 1 think what the Commissioner's proposing is that we just 2 shrink the number of hours that are going to be allocated to 3 the project from their bid, for whatever -- 4 MR. EMERSON: I don't know that that's a 5 material change, then. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The mobilization 7 charge, which there would be, and demobilization charges are 8 in there. As the Judge noted, all this is under our County 9 supervision and is bid on an hourly basis. And they have 10 bid approximately 350; we're going to change that to 200. 11 You comfortable? 12 MR. EMERSON: Yes, sir. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess my question would 15 be, how did the other person bid? Was it per-hour? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He bid -- he just bid 17 total job, $275,000. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there a problem on 19 rebidding it? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, probably, in 21 that this guy's workload is filling up, and if we're to get 22 it done in this budget year -- it's now pushed off to -- in 23 his scheme of things, to September, and if we delay it any 24 further, it will be out of this budget year. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess I would let you 5-9-05 72 1 get with the County Attorney, make sure we're doing this 2 properly. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What triggers my 4 question in my mind is the difference in the bids that came 5 in. One is 287,000; one is 69,000. I'm just not convinced 6 that those two companies are on the same page, or -- 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They weren't. They 8 weren't. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I mean, that 10 makes me think that we have to be real careful with our 11 bidding, then, or this -- I don't know. I just -- I'm a 12 little uncomfortable with it, but if the great legal mind 13 said it's cool, it's cool. That's fine with me. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The other -- and I don't 15 know if this solves the problem. We could award the bid to 16 the low bidder and then negotiate a change. I don't know if 17 that makes -- if you can do that. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm still hung up 19 riding in my own private car. I haven't gotten past the 20 insurance thing yet. Sorry, guys. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I thought you were 22 still hung up on paying Time-Warner a dollar. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, I am very much 24 hung up on that deal. That's serious business. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Commissioner, you made a 5-9-05 73 1 motion? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I will make a motion 3 that we award a bid to Excavation Technologies, Inc., for 4 the cleanup of Flat Rock Lake Park, and I would say that we 5 negotiate the hours originally planned from 250 -- 200 -- 6 400 down to 250 for the purpose of cleaning up the lake. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll second, as long as 8 it's subject to the County Attorney's approval of the 9 modification to the bid. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any further question or 11 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 12 your right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's take up one more item 17 before we take our morning recess. Item 7, consider and 18 discuss authorizing Road and Bridge to improve and/or 19 construct a separate roadway to a facility at Kerrville 20 State Hospital for utilization for acute civil commitment 21 patients from Kerr and other counties, contingent upon 22 approval by the State for utilization of Building 626 of the 23 Kerrville State Hospital for such patients. I think that I 24 mentioned to you gentlemen sometime back that we were 25 working on a plan to try and maintain our ability to handle 5-9-05 74 1 acute civil commitment patients here in Kerr County as we've 2 done for many, many years, not only for Kerr County, but for 3 other counties within our so-called cachement area, for 4 those patients to be treated here at Kerrville State 5 Hospital and for the legal processes to occur here as we've 6 done for many, many years. 7 I had the County Attorney look at this issue 8 about using County resources to construct a road on state 9 property, and in his review of it -- I'll try and 10 paraphrase -- basically, if there is a benefit to be derived 11 by Kerr County by putting in this additional roadway and 12 using County resources to do that, if there's a reasonable 13 benefit to be derived from doing that, we can do so. For 14 that reason, I included in the backup materials the court 15 cost information just for '04. The savings to court costs 16 at our rates for '04 were almost $51,000. The actual -- 17 actual revenue that we generated last year was almost 18 $183,000. Now, based upon what we are paying at the rate of 19 $416 per hearing going out of county, that same $51,000 20 would have translated to $68,000. So, in effect, the 21 economic benefit derived by Kerr County, had we had to go 22 elsewhere and not gotten the benefit of the revenue from 23 these other counties, would have amounted to over $250,000. 24 I think the County Attorney concedes that's a significant 25 benefit that we derive. 5-9-05 75 1 I talked with Mr. Odom, and he did a cursory 2 view of looking at that -- that proposed route for the new 3 roadway to a separate entrance back to the back side of 4 Kerrville State Hospital. His preliminary information was 5 approximately $10,000 for materials. He may have better 6 information than that right now, but -- also, as another 7 point, this proposal would be contingent upon the state 8 Legislature authorizing and -- and putting up the necessary 9 portion of the funding by -- by rider -- budget rider 10 appropriation for the use of this particular building at 11 Kerrville State Hospital for that purpose, and this would be 12 for the coming budget year beginning September 1, '05. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I've got to ask 14 a question before Leonard gets too far in it. What? I 15 mean, is there a building that's not -- we can't access 16 today, and we're having to build a road around to access 17 this building, or -- I'm not following. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Because of the new 19 configuration of the treatment scheme out at Kerrville State 20 Hospital -- and I'll let Ms. Werlein address this a little 21 bit more in-depth, or correct me if I'm wrong, which I very 22 well could be -- they're wanting to segregate these two 23 functions, the -- the forensic patients, which is now the 24 dedicated function of Kerrville State Hospital, and the 25 acute civil commitment patients, which are going to take 5-9-05 76 1 place on the very back side of the facility. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: In a building which is 4 currently utilized, I think, for training. It's a -- it's 5 one of the newer buildings that's being utilized. They 6 would have to relocate out of there, but that building could 7 be reconfigured for use for acute civil commitment patients 8 for -- for their treatment. And they would require a 9 separate roadway entrance to that building, which will skirt 10 around the east boundary of the fence going in off of Texas 11 Drive, where the light is. Are you with me, Commissioner? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. It would skirt around 14 the outside of the fence on the east side and come back in 15 at the very back portion. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, the requirement is 17 from the hospital, that they -- that a separate entrance 18 needs to be built? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, are there any 21 other costs associated with this? I mean, the -- like, for 22 example, rehabilitation of a building or changing a building 23 to do this? And, if so, who bears that expense? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: No, Kerr County -- the only 25 additional cost would be the labor costs associated with the 5-9-05 77 1 construction or improvement of -- there's a roadway there 2 now. It's not an adequate road. It's basically a -- kind 3 of a country lane, wouldn't you say? Unimproved country 4 lane? 5 MR. ODOM: Unimproved, just caliche. Poured 6 caliche with base failure. I mean, just bad caliche. And 7 the question would be, Judge -- and as we talked, 14 foot is 8 what we thought for that road. But I -- we were talking 9 about $10,000 at that time based upon current prices that I 10 had, and since then, we've had those bids, so you're 11 probably looking at an increase on that, probably close to 12 $12,000. But the question would be, when I was out this 13 last week asking what did the State expect from us? Was 14 this a wider road? Could we get away with 14 or 16? And 15 where do we come in at that building? And I didn't have an 16 answer from them. They're indicating some type of parking 17 lot. So, you know, I think -- and this was one gentleman 18 that took me back there, and so I'm not quite sure what all 19 we need to do, but I can put something in. You can figure 20 the material costs in there. There's no cost as far as 21 labor and machinery. We -- this is a county property, and 22 at the direction of the Court to build it, it would just be 23 the material costs. So, we got to put some pipes in there 24 where there's some poor drainage. I can't get much more 25 than six -- 16 is putting it right at the edge of the water. 5-9-05 78 1 How much -- how much traffic's going in there, I don't know. 2 They couldn't tell me. So -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Werlein? Maybe you can 4 fill some of these gaps in here. 5 MS. WERLEIN: I'll try. I'll try. The 6 traffic that would be going in there, we're going to 7 contract with the hospital when that facility is completed. 8 We're contracting with them. There -- to answer whose ever 9 question it was about the building itself, the hospital and 10 State will be doing the renovations, because we will be 11 renting from them at that facility. That's the first thing. 12 The second thing is, the traffic in and out would be 13 patients that -- and police cars, that kind of thing, that 14 would be coming in. Any kind of heavy trucks or food 15 service, laundry would be going into the hospital itself, 16 not within the gated area that would be around the building 17 that we're talking about. That concept is part of what the 18 hospital and Hill Country came together to talk about, so 19 that it was separated from the hospital, and that the people 20 who were concerned about mixing acute and forensic 21 populations could have that satisfied. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there not a -- an existing 23 separate parking area for this building, 626? 24 MS. WERLEIN: Yes, there is. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But all this is -- 5-9-05 79 1 MS. WERLEIN: And a parking lot -- I don't 2 know with whom you spoke, but a parking lot has not been 3 mentioned to us. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is all contingent, 5 though, on an appropriations bill, having funding? 6 MS. WERLEIN: That's correct, the rider being 7 funded. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there a reason we're 9 doing this before that appropriation bill gets passed? 10 MS. WERLEIN: Yes, there is. The State 11 Department and the people within the Legislature that are 12 assisting us in this process feel that some good faith 13 effort on the part of the County that was tangible, that 14 said that they were going to work with this -- because, if 15 you will remember, a large part of the reason that this was 16 even being considered was the concern within Kerr County 17 that they had to go outside of the county for this service. 18 So, that -- that possibility always -- if this does not 19 happen, then, of course, people will be sent to Austin State 20 Hospital and San Antonio State Hospital, so that really is 21 why. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is the -- the road 23 itself, if it's 14 foot, there's obviously no center stripe 24 on it; then it'll just be -- just a -- 25 MR. ODOM: Approximately 2,200 linear feet 5-9-05 80 1 long. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is the road on state 3 property or County property? Whose property -- 4 MR. ODOM: State. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So the road is on -- so 6 we can put a sign on state property as soon as you get into 7 that, which -- so it will be basically the same as the roads 8 in the State Hospital. 9 MS. WERLEIN: Private. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 'Cause they're mostly, I 11 guess, 14-foot too, for the most part. 12 MR. ODOM: Some of them are just -- utility 13 service is around 10 to 14 foot, something like that. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then what about 15 maintenance? Who -- are we supposed to maintain it for 100 16 years or -- 17 MS. WERLEIN: I don't think we will be in 18 that property, Commissioner, for 100 years. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Are we expected 20 to maintain it one day? 21 MS. WERLEIN: Yes, sir. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. How long are we 23 expected to maintain it? 24 MS. WERLEIN: I would assume as long as we 25 are there. 5-9-05 81 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not good enough. I -- 2 I'm not sure what we're doing here. I'm not convinced -- is 3 this one of those buildings that was deemed not good enough 4 to house patients -- 5 MS. WERLEIN: No, sir, it was not. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- years ago? Excuse 7 me? 8 MS. WERLEIN: No, sir, it was not. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the buildings that 10 you're referring to are the ones with asbestos concerns, I 11 believe. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's correct. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: This is at the very back of 14 the entire campus. It was built in the early '80's, I 15 believe, and its initial purpose for being built was for the 16 substance abuse programs. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I remember. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: It does not have -- it does 19 not have any of the asbestos problems. There are a few 20 modifications that would have to be made; I think A.D.A., 21 there may be some modifications, and some other interior 22 modifications to accommodate the type of patients. But 23 that's -- that's the building that we're talking about. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Leonard, what's -- how 25 much money are we talking about? 5-9-05 82 1 MR. ODOM: Approximately $12,000. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: $12,000. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let's go back to the 4 maintenance issue, Ms. Werlein. 5 MS. WERLEIN: Yes, sir. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The State maintains 7 whatever road system on their campus that exists today, 8 right? 9 MS. WERLEIN: Yes, sir. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is on their 11 campus. 12 MS. WERLEIN: Yes, sir, but they operate 13 state programs within that. We are contracting with them. 14 Hill Country M.H.M.R. Center will be contracting with them. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which I understand. 16 But this is still a road on state property going to a 17 State-owned building, correct? 18 MS. WERLEIN: Yes, sir. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And I'm wondering why 20 the State wouldn't assume -- since this road, once 21 constructed, will be on their property -- 22 MS. WERLEIN: And that may -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- would not assume 24 the maintenance of it. 25 MS. WERLEIN: That may be something that we 5-9-05 83 1 can take a look at. They have not rated that at this point. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think it's 3 something we ought to take a look at. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Actually, I think we 5 need to be clear about that before we take any steps. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess I'm -- I mean, 7 I'm not opposed to spending the money, 'cause I think -- I 8 mean, the acute care and all that is something we've -- we 9 want at the hospital. But -- and I understand the need to 10 segregate acute care from the forensic care, but why do you 11 need a separate road? Why can't you go in the driveway -- I 12 mean, the road be the same, and just fence the -- 13 MS. WERLEIN: Actually, it's the hospital's 14 request that there be a separate road. They do not want -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Police cars driving 16 through? 17 MS. WERLEIN: Well, no, they have police cars 18 coming now. But it's just -- it's very -- it's on the very 19 edge of the campus, and they just don't want the traffic 20 coming through, so they have requested -- it was their 21 request that we have a separate road. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And this is the only -- 23 this is the only viable -- there's not an easier way or a 24 less expensive way to -- 25 MS. WERLEIN: No, this is the less expensive 5-9-05 84 1 way. There were two ways that -- you could come all the way 2 around the grounds, and then there's this one that you go in 3 by Texas Drive, and it's much shorter, the amount that would 4 be necessary to build and retain. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: The request to support the 7 funding, the appropriations rider to do the necessary 8 modifications and upgrades to the building from State 9 Commission -- the State Commission is now the one that's 10 wanting this commitment from the Court, if I understand. 11 MS. WERLEIN: Yes, sir. They need to know 12 that this is a -- partially because a large part of the 13 reason that we're looking at even having an acute care 14 facility here is because of the concern of Kerr County and 15 the fact that there would be no acute care admissions here 16 in Kerrville. And Representative Hilderbran, Representative 17 Davis, and Representative Gattis have spent a great deal of 18 time -- as you might know, it's quite unusual to ask for 19 this kind of thing. There are a lot of community M.H.M.R. 20 centers that are saying, "If you give it to Hill Country, we 21 want it too." There are 41 community M.H.M.R. centers in 22 the state of Texas, so I might add it's not a popular 23 request. So, the commitment from them is -- is taken with 24 some heat to push this forward, and at this point, I think 25 they're looking at local commitments. We're also looking at 5-9-05 85 1 local foundations for support as well, and all of these 2 pieces put together make for a prettier picture when you go 3 forward to foundations. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, basically, I 5 support it, and I think the maintenance issue over the long 6 haul is probably a minor -- minor issue, particularly if 7 Mr. Odom builds the road like I know he can. It probably 8 won't be an issue for some time. 9 MS. WERLEIN: And you're not talking about 10 heavy traffic. You're talking about automobiles, for the 11 most part. You're not talking about big trucks coming in. 12 As I said, we will be contracting with the hospital for 13 things like food service, laundry. That will be in their 14 existing roads. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions of 16 Ms. Werlein? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sheriff? 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The one thing I'd like 19 to say, I think it would be a great benefit, and if we could 20 help in some way, because right now we're transporting, you 21 know, anywhere up to four people to these other state 22 hospitals a week, and that's to -- that's other ones all 23 around the state, and it's getting very hard for us to do. 24 And I think the City of Kerrville has the same -- of course, 25 they're doing the same thing we're doing. We're doing it 5-9-05 86 1 kind of jointly, and it may be something that, later on, if 2 the whole thing were approved, the City would also pitch in 3 a little bit to help, because this is needed for this 4 county. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The City's here. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Judge, I move to 7 authorize Road and Bridge to approve or construct a separate 8 roadway to a facility of Kerrville State Hospital for -- 9 utilized for acute civil commitment patients from Kerr and 10 other counties, and authorize Road and Bridge to spend up to 11 $12,000 doing it. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Any 14 question or discussion? All in favor of the motion -- you 15 had a -- 16 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir, I had a question. When 17 is this to be done? Immediately? Or -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not unless the 19 appropriation bill -- 20 MR. ODOM: But in this budget year or next 21 budget year? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: We're probably going to know 23 by the end of this month whether or not this is -- this is a 24 doable thing. You're obviously wondering where that money's 25 going to come from if it comes out of this budget year. 5-9-05 87 1 MR. ODOM: But it's really -- the time factor 2 is when you want it to be done, because I'm in -- in the 3 process of beginning the sealcoat program. You know, do I 4 have -- what length of time do I have before next budget? 5 If I get it in this fiscal year, is that acceptable to the 6 Court? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, very much so, because 8 they -- they will not commence the construction, I don't 9 think, until after the 1st of September under the new state 10 budget. Is that what I'm hearing, Ms. Werlein? 11 MS. WERLEIN: No, sir, they'll -- the 12 construction on the building, the -- the remodeling of the 13 building, they'll start that, and they're doing some of that 14 currently. We've already had the architects come out and 15 look at it and do -- redo a plan. We've already had some 16 other people from the State come down, so the work is 17 beginning on that. But that road will not be needed until, 18 I would say, September. But we won't even know if all of 19 this is a reality for another month, till the gavel falls on 20 the 31st. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, it will be this 22 budget year. 23 MR. ODOM: Toward the end of the budget year. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, towards the end of 25 the budget year. 5-9-05 88 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Are you comfortable with that? 2 MR. ODOM: I think so. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any further question or 4 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 5 your right hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Thank 10 you for being here, Ms. Werlein. 11 MS. WERLEIN: Thank you, gentlemen. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's take about a 10- to 13 15-minute recess. We'll convene at 11 o'clock or shortly 14 thereafter. 15 (Recess taken from 10:46 a.m. to 11:00 a.m.) 16 - - - - - - - - - - 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to 18 order. We were in recess for approximately 15 minutes. 19 We'll move on with the agenda now. Item 8, consider and 20 discuss the County's responsibility for maintenance of Clark 21 Ranch Road located in Precinct 4. Commissioner Nicholson. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, I've given you 23 an account of what appears to have happened going back more 24 than 30 years with Clark Ranch Road, and the basic 25 question -- the bottom line is, do we maintain 2.4 miles of 5-9-05 89 1 it or 1.6 miles of it? And if we changed it from 2.4 miles 2 to 1.6 miles, did we get a court order to do that? So, I'm 3 proposing that we either resume maintenance of it or go 4 through the process of abandoning it. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Question. What does 6 the 1997 list sayeth? Oh, here you go. 7 MR. ODOM: '97? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wasn't that the old -- 9 the latest list of county roads and their distance? 10 MS. HARDIN: In 1996, which you gave -- he 11 just handed you the county -- 12 MR. ODOM: I have a list, if you'll take a 13 look at that. That is where the State ran that, and we have 14 1.623 miles. That was to Ron Gray's gate. If you'll look 15 at this map, basically, we went back to the '59 map; shows 16 nine-tenths of a mile. That's to Tiny Clark's house. And 17 that the Schumachers went -- if you looked at this, that 18 front map shows you it comes back over there by Priours. 19 I've been here 14 years. Also, on the back of that -- I'll 20 try to address the letter on each one, but I have two 21 statements, and one, if you go to the back page on May 22nd 22 of '05, I asked Ray Lynch -- and I know when I started that. 23 I had Ray to go over a lot of this with Ted Lackey to make 24 sure where our maintenance stopped and started on Clark 25 Road. 5-9-05 90 1 It says, "I, Ray Lynch, was hired by Kerr 2 County Precinct 4 Commissioner Bill Guthrie, Jr., in March 3 of 1980. At this time, Guthrie's foreman, Jake Crenshaw, 4 had taken me over all the roads in Precinct 4. Jake 5 Crenshaw had been with Kerr County since 1970. When Jake 6 showed me Clark Road, we stopped at Ron Gray's gate. Jake 7 explained to me that the county maintenance stopped at this 8 gate and did not go into Ron Gray's ranch." I also have the 9 same -- another statement from Aaron Wheeler, which is in 10 charge -- and Aaron's here if there's any questions. But it 11 says, "The first time I worked on Clark Road was in the 12 mid-'80's under Ted Lackey, and was told that County 13 Maintenance ended at Gray's gate. There was one time we got 14 water from Gray's tank in front of his house, and we put 15 base on some washouts. At that time was the only time we 16 went past the gate." 17 And I've gone back and tried to reconstruct 18 everything, but basically, that's what I was told, and when 19 the State went out in -- to do this road by GPS, we didn't 20 go with them. They took our roads and they went there. And 21 normally that gate is closed or locked, and probably had "No 22 Trespassing" up on it. So, you know, the State that -- they 23 ended at our maintenance. That's where we've always turned 24 around, according to Ray Lynch and everybody. And you were 25 here in the 80's; like I say, the '59 showed nine-tenths of 5-9-05 91 1 a mile to Tiny Clark's, and then apparently it subdivided or 2 sold at that point. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What did -- what did I 4 have -- I did a master list as well. What was my distance? 5 MS. HARDIN: There's no distance on your 6 list, there's just names. 7 MR. ODOM: Just names. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. So that meant 9 it -- what that meant was that it remained the same under -- 10 MR. ODOM: '59. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- Mr. -- not Oehler. 12 MR. ODOM: Guthrie. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, the '59. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- is there a gate 15 there? 16 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, if there's -- seems 18 to me that if there's a gate, our maintenance stops at the 19 gate. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: At one time, there 21 were gates between all of these properties, and the County 22 went in and put cattle guards in them. There's been no 23 cattle guard put into the -- to the property line of the 24 Gray property. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: When was all that -- I 5-9-05 92 1 mean, I guess -- I don't know. 2 MR. ODOM: As long as I've been here, 3 Commissioner, those cattle guards are -- they're so small; 4 they're about 10 foot. They have been taken out, 'cause we 5 just rebuilt Clark Road, and we ended at Ron Gray's gate. 6 We pulled the asphalt right up to the gate. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Mr. Gray makes a 8 claim that in the 90's, we resurfaced Clark Ranch Road, and 9 we used caliche from his ranch. 10 MR. ODOM: In the 90's, the only -- 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Ran it up to -- 12 about 100 yards short of the residence. And it was told at 13 that time that the reason we're stopping here instead of 14 going as far as we used to is something about water lines. 15 So, are we denying that that happened? 16 MR. ODOM: I'm denying that as far as us 17 maintaining. What happened in the 90's was floods, 18 Commissioner. And the -- and Bruce Oehler was Commissioner 19 at that time. What we had was no policy, and what we 20 started was a policy, if people got rained out -- when I 21 first came here in '90 -- '91, '92 was a big flood. I think 22 '95, '96. And so when people called in, of course, they 23 would call their Commissioner, and we just said, well, if 24 you construe that as an emergency, then we would go out. We 25 found that we were getting phone calls throughout. I mean, 5-9-05 93 1 everybody had an emergency. And we said, "This is not 2 working,' cause we had people to take care of it. What 3 happened there, sometime in the '90's, I remember probably 4 we were working Clark Road at different places and probably 5 had that request, and probably Bruce requested that. What 6 we've done since then is change that to that the Sheriff's 7 Department would take a look at it, and since that time, we 8 don't have the problems. We don't have the calls, because 9 they have to declare an emergency, and we ask the Sheriff's 10 Department to go out and use their cars. Because if they 11 can't get in and out with the car, well, certainly, you 12 know, we take a look at it. And that's the only way that I 13 would know during the '90's. And he was -- he's been there 14 with that crew, so -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I'll just make a 16 comment. I have no idea about this situation, but I do know 17 that on several roads that were -- that I have been involved 18 with -- Lazy Valley has been one, and recently out off Lane 19 Valley, when the County worked out an arrangement to get 20 that material off somebody's property, which they do pretty 21 regularly on things if it makes economic sense. It's very 22 common to -- you certainly want to leave the road in better 23 shape than you found it. So, I mean, roads may be improved 24 while we're -- kind of as a -- as a thank-you for using the 25 road, but that never -- I kind of -- what I'm thinking of is 5-9-05 94 1 DeeDee Faltin. There was never any idea that we were going 2 to -- because we improved part of his road to get materials, 3 we were going -- ever going to take over maintenance of the 4 road. 5 MR. ODOM: Yeah. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I don't know the 7 situation here. But, I mean, there are situations where we 8 improve a road because we're getting material. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Do we have any evidence that 10 the segment of the road in question -- about eight-tenths of 11 a mile, apparently -- was ever accepted or under the 12 County's maintenance program, irrespective of when that may 13 have been? 14 MR. ODOM: I don't have any -- anything in 15 '87. Commissioner Baldwin was there. I don't know -- I 16 didn't come till '91, and I can tell you, we did not 17 maintain it. Ray Lynch took it right there and said, "Len, 18 this was it. I started in 1980, so I can tell you from that 19 point." And this gentleman's been here for -- how many 20 years have you been with the County? 21 MR. WHEELER: 21. 22 MR. ODOM: 21. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So we're saying 24 that -- that Mr. Gray is wrong; that we have not maintained 25 that road for 21 years? 5-9-05 95 1 MR. ODOM: No, sir. I have been here 14. I 2 have not maintained that. 3 MR. WHEELER: We went in there that one time 4 and we got water from him. We may have gotten material from 5 him up there; I'm not real sure. But we based out the rough 6 spots on his road. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The Schumachers 8 would be wrong if they asserted that at one time we 9 maintained that Clark Ranch Road all the way to their 10 residence? 11 MR. WHEELER: If it was, it was years ago. 12 MR. ODOM: Years ago. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I think that the 14 County used to maintain the road from 1340 into the 15 Schumacher house, but a totally separate road. 16 MR. ODOM: Separate road. It was by the 17 wildlife refuge. It was a -- wildlife refuge is the way 18 they went, through Fosslers. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Fosslers, mm-hmm. 20 MR. ODOM: Yes. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: At one time, we 22 maintained Clark Ranch Road all the way to the Schumacher's 23 property. And -- 24 MS. HARDIN: There's two highlighted roads on 25 there. One of them's -- 5-9-05 96 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I believe '87 is the 2 critical date. If it wasn't on the '87 list, it isn't 3 maintained. It wasn't a county road. 4 MR. ODOM: Now, you -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's lots of things 6 done before that, that who knows -- you know, in '87 is when 7 we -- 8 MR. ODOM: That's when the unitized system 9 came in, and Ray is saying not -- you know, he came in 1980 10 and they turned around there. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If it wasn't on the list 12 in '87, it's just not on the list. There's lots of roads 13 around the county -- in my precinct, every one of them may 14 have had some work done to them prior to that, but, you 15 know, that list is the list. 16 MR. ODOM: Sometimes if we do work, sometimes 17 people construe us maintaining it. And with all due 18 respect, I -- you know, we're not being argumentative, 19 calling anybody that's doing -- some people remember what 20 they wish to remember. But I -- I'm going from people that 21 have been here since 1980. I'm here since '91; that's over 22 14 years. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Didn't the -- the '87 24 list didn't have distances on them; it was just names? 25 MR. ODOM: It's just names. 5-9-05 97 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Which meant that -- 2 that it didn't change from this document here, is what that 3 meant. 4 MR. ODOM: And you have -- I think the ones 5 that -- even if this would -- before Gerald Menafee was 6 here, I would imagine it was either Danny from Center Point 7 that did know that area that may have done that, or Raymond 8 Barrons. I don't know; one or -- one or both of them. At 9 one time Raymond was here when we came back, so a lot of 10 people -- you have to know the west end. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, this document 12 that Truby just gave us seems to -- 13 MR. ODOM: Well, it stopped at Tiny Clark's. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- take us back to 15 1959, and the then-Commissioner established that that was 16 the .9 distance. 17 MR. ODOM: That was Tiny Clark's. And we've 18 gone past that to even pick up the other people there right 19 up to Ron Gray's -- or to the Stone Foundation. I don't 20 know if Mr. Gray owns that or not. But I think there's -- 21 it lists Diamond J or the Stone Foundation, something like 22 that, that owns that. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, our response to 24 those two landowners who -- who assert that the road was 25 once maintained by the County is that we have not maintained 5-9-05 98 1 that road for at least 21 years? 2 MR. ODOM: I can say for 14. It indicates 3 it's 21. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. I don't have 5 anything else to offer on it, Judge. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Anybody else have any more on 7 that particular item? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. I want to point 9 out something on this list here. North Fork, 14 miles. 10 That's State Highway 1340. I just think that's so neat, 11 back then. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are you related to Cecil? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's my daddy. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I know that. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else on that item? 16 Let's move on to Item 11, consider the reclassification of 17 roads in Big Sky Ranch in Volume 7, Page 280, from public to 18 private. Mr. Odom? 19 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. We separated this item 20 from others listed in the public hearing so it might be 21 attached to the subdivision plat records. Big Sky Ranch was 22 platted earlier this year, with the roads being built to 23 Kerr County specifications in preparation for them to be 24 County-maintained after the one-year waiting period. The 25 developers have since decided that they want to make the 5-9-05 99 1 roads private. I recommend the Court make the roads 2 private. That's -- they were listed on that public hearing, 3 and we wanted to be able to identify that and put it on the 4 plat, and that was the direction we had from the Court for 5 the best suggestion we had previously. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I move that we 7 reclassify the roads in Big Sky Ranch Subdivision from 8 public to private. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 11 approval of the agenda item. Any question or discussion? 12 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 13 hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Item 18 12, consider name changes on County-maintained roads, 19 abandonment, discontinuance, and vacation -- vacating 20 1445 feet of Ox Hollow and all of Hurt-Priour on Henry 21 Priour Ranch, and speed limits on Bear Creek and Peterson 22 Farm Road, no parking on Hunt River Road. 23 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. The regulatory signs 24 there are self-explanatory. I do have -- the Ox Hollow is 25 1,445 linear feet of roadway; it's in a creek. I think it 5-9-05 100 1 went back to the -- your relatives, I think, back there 2 originally had that. It is totally back in the creek. 3 Buster knows what I'm talking about. We have done 4 previously -- I've talked to the property owner. He was 5 willing, I would say that, to this abandonment. It would be 6 contingent on a cul-de-sac that they would build at the end, 7 because there's absolutely no way to turn around down there. 8 And if he's in agreement, and he indicated that was so, I 9 think that I would bring it to the Court there after it was 10 built -- not the taxpayers, but for him to build it; that we 11 would abandon that road. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, that abandonment is 13 subject to the cul-de-sac? 14 MR. ODOM: Subject to the cul-de-sac being 15 built. And we've done that in the past with others, so I 16 think -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is just a public 18 hearing, and the abandonment would come with a later court 19 order. 20 MR. ODOM: The abandonment would be later, 21 contingent upon him building that; that we'd bring it to the 22 Court for abandonment. And the other is the abandonment of 23 the Hurt-Priour Ranch Road, which has to do with two people, 24 and three -- well, I think -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There are actually 5-9-05 101 1 three owners there. They're all members of the same family. 2 MR. ODOM: Right. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But there are three 4 owners. And I got a call this morning from one of those 5 members, and he said that he hadn't been contacted, or -- 6 and please don't start throwing rocks at me; I'm just 7 telling you what the guy said. 8 MR. ODOM: I'm sorry. We -- we do have a 9 letter. We sent it to -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. I'm just 11 telling you what the guy said. 12 MR. ODOM: Here it is here. We sent a letter 13 April 25th, 2005, to Rob Hurt. This is the one that brought 14 it up before, and I think was in here at one time about 15 this. And, "Dear Mr. Hurt, there is a public hearing set 16 for May the 9th, 2005, at 10 a.m. in Commissioners Court to 17 abandon, vacate, and discontinue the road through your ranch 18 known as Henry Priour or Hurt-Priour Road for county -- Kerr 19 County maintenance. If you would like to be heard on this 20 matter, we invite you to attend." And I signed it. I have 21 a memo that was sent from Truby to David Motley February -- 22 September the 10th, 1999, 8:16 a.m. It had two subjects. 23 One paragraph here says, "I will check my files and get back 24 to you on the Hurt-Priour history later today. Robby" -- 25 and gave his phone number -- "and Lewis Hurt called Buster 5-9-05 102 1 telling him they were the only two that used the road, and 2 requesting that the road be abandoned." Now, we had -- I 3 think Robby Hurt was in, and we had discussed the reason he 4 wanted us to take it back was that -- I have some pictures, 5 and the -- the comment was, Robby Hurt came in 12-14-04, 6 discussed road with Leonard. He suggested we read the 7 letter he sent to David. When I asked him what his 8 objections was, he responded that he wanted Kerr County to 9 resume maintenance, and said it needed patching. Well, it 10 does need patching after this many years. And then the 11 comment was, with the Commissioner and I when we were in -- 12 in our office there, that after we patch it, would we have a 13 problem of abandoning it back to -- to those two. We only 14 see two property owners. The road goes all the way through. 15 Used to have his mother living there, and I think she's 16 deceased now. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Great-grandmother. 18 MR. ODOM: And that goes into his brother's 19 place, and that road goes right to the house. And so, to 20 me, they asked in '99 to abandon it, and we obliged. And I 21 just -- I just do not see where the public is being 22 benefited for us to maintain this road. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess the only issue -- 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If Buster said -- or they 5-9-05 103 1 told Buster that there's three property owners; you're 2 saying there's two. I think we're required to notify all 3 property owners. We need to figure out if there's two or 4 three. I guess that's law. We have to notify them, and if 5 there's a -- as I understand it. And so, once we figure out 6 who owns the property, if there's two and we've done two, 7 then we can abandon it, but if there's three, we need to 8 notify the third person. 9 MR. ODOM: Well, I guess that -- 10 MS. HARDIN: Public hearing is not 11 notification? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think you have to do 13 it -- I believe you have to do it -- I'll defer to Rex, but 14 I think you have to do it individually to the affected 15 people. 16 MR. EMERSON: That's my understanding. 17 MR. ODOM: Well, I apologize to the Court. 18 We'll come back at it another -- another time, then. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If we can find out. If 20 there's only two, I guess this would suffice as the public 21 hearing, but if there is a third, we'll have to do it again. 22 MR. ODOM: To my knowledge, there's two. 23 That's what the -- that's what we showed. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm just telling you 25 what the guy told me. 5-9-05 104 1 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know. I know 3 that there's three members of the family, and he said, 4 "There's three of us." That would be a mama and a baby and 5 a -- next to a baby. Yeah, you add -- you add these two 6 guys' mother in the picture. 7 MR. ODOM: The mother is -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: According to them. 9 MR. ODOM: According to Robby Hurt, the 10 mother's deceased. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Grandmother is. 12 MR. ODOM: Grandmother, okay. I'm sorry. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the old Priour 14 bunch, and she was Mrs. Henry Priour. And Mrs. Priour had a 15 little girl named Mrs. Hurt, which -- well, let's don't -- I 16 mean -- 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Is this a public 18 hearing, or can we take action? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: We already had the public 20 hearing. 21 MR. ODOM: We had the public hearing. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We can take action 23 on those of these items we choose to. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Actually, I think you 5-9-05 105 1 can probably take action on any of them, because they've had 2 the opportunity to come in here and speak. 3 MR. ODOM: I mean, we've met with everybody. 4 I've met with the Commissioner, with that individual that 5 requested it -- was requesting us to take it back in. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not arguing. I just, 7 you know -- 8 MR. ODOM: I'm just saying -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't disagree. It's 10 just about whether we've given proper notice to the people 11 doing it, and that's -- I think you have to give it 12 individually. If it's their road or goes to their property, 13 they're using it, I think you have to do more than just 14 public hearing, but I'm not -- I'll defer to Rex. 15 MR. ODOM: We'll check with legal and we'll 16 make sure; we'll do it again. And I would ask the Court to 17 disregard this on Hurt-Priour Road, then, for abandonment 18 and discontinuing. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: At this time. 20 MR. ODOM: At this time. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And bring it back. 22 MR. ODOM: I'll bring it back. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If it met the 24 requirements. 25 MR. ODOM: That's right, sir. I apologize to 5-9-05 106 1 the Court. We thought we met the requirements. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. I'm going to 3 make a motion that -- 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Whoa, I got some 5 questions on Peterson Farm Road. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: That's okay, you can make a 7 motion. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Go ahead and make a 9 motion. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Go ahead and make a 11 motion. I still have a question. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'll make a motion 13 that we approve the regulatory signs as listed in the notice 14 of public hearing, and that we abandon, vacate, discontinue 15 1,445 feet of Ox Hollow Road South, contingent upon the 16 cul-de-sac being built, and that we make the road name 17 changes as listed in the notice of public hearing. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Motion made and 20 seconded as stated. Questions or comments? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a question. 22 Does the motion include the speed limits on Bear Creek and 23 Peterson Farm? 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes, sir. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Question. 5-9-05 107 1 Leonard, with regard to Peterson Farm Road, did I initiate 2 this change, or how was that initiated, and what is the 3 current posted limit? 4 MR. ODOM: Did you initiate -- what was the 5 last question? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Did I initiate this 7 change for speed limit on Peterson Farm Road? That's 8 question one. Secondly, what is the current posted speed 9 limit? 10 MS. HARDIN: It is currently posted at 45 11 coming from Mooney. There is no posting from Highway 27 12 towards Mooney. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So that's the purpose 14 of this, is just to post -- 15 MS. HARDIN: And a law enforcement officer 16 asked us to do it. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: On 27, as you're 18 going eastbound on Peterson Farm Road -- 19 MS. HARDIN: Yes, sir. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- to put a sign up? 21 MS. HARDIN: Yes, sir. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And it is currently 23 established as 45 coming out of Mooney complex westbound? 24 MS. HARDIN: Yeah, within the city limits. 25 MR. ODOM: Within the city limits. 5-9-05 108 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, fine. Thank 2 you. 3 MR. ODOM: But this request was from the 4 Sheriff's Department. 5 MS. HARDIN: No, D.P.S. 6 MR. ODOM: D.P.S. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I don't have a real 8 strong opinion on it, but on the Ox Hollow Road, wouldn't it 9 be better to pull that from this order and -- and do that 10 when the cul-de-sac's built? I just hate having contingent 11 things floating around out there, 'cause then they tend to 12 get kind of lost. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So my preference would be 15 probably to -- 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay, let's amend 17 that proposal to exclude the abandonment and vacating of 18 1,445 feet of Ox Hollow Road. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I concur. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, as amended and restated. 21 Any further questions or comments on the motion? All in 22 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 5-9-05 109 1 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Thank 2 you. Let's go to Item 13, consider road name changes for 3 privately maintained roads in accordance with 9-1-1 4 guidelines. 5 MS. HARDIN: The list keeps getting shorter 6 and shorter. We only have three today. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 10 approval of the agenda item. Any question or discussion? 11 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 12 hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Next 17 item is Item 14, preliminary plat of Mosty Pecan Grove 18 located in Precinct 2. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mr. Odom, tell them 20 where we are today. We've been all over this plat. 21 MR. ODOM: We've been all over, but I think 22 that we have an agreement. Lot 1 is to be renamed a pump 23 tract, and down at the end we have a cul-de-sac. That is 24 not a full cul-de-sac, but it is a pretty good turnaround, 25 50-foot radius. On Lot 2, if you will look at Note Number 5-9-05 110 1 5, 1.82 acres, it says, "No habitable structure will be 2 allowed on Lot 2 unless the lot is serviced by a community 3 water system, shared well, or permitted well." So, 4 basically, at this time, it is until those criteria are met, 5 or a community water system or something, that it's a little 6 bit over 1 acre that's acceptable. On Lot 1, if you will 7 look at Note Number 8, "Any resubdivision of Lot 1 will be 8 restricted to access from State Highway 27 only because of 9 its inadequate width. No access will be permitted from J.J. 10 Lane to future lots." So, I have no problems, since there 11 is a 15-foot easement on Lot 1 right now; the individual has 12 that. He would still have that access. However, if it's 13 split up in two or more parts and has to be replatted, which 14 it would have to be, that entrance would come out on Highway 15 27. I think that's acceptable. 16 I kept the proprietary rights of the 17 landowners; it must be 18 to 20 some-odd lots over there. 18 We'd keep that at 30 foot. We've enhanced that 30-foot 19 easement with that cul-de-sac down at the bottom. We've 20 added this third tract up in here, which was separate from 21 the original, but I think we've done that. And by the 22 information that Rex has given you, that gives us some 23 guidelines, what we can do, and that we do have the right if 24 it's necessary, but I don't think it's necessary. I think 25 if we keep it a private road at 30 foot, I think it's been 5-9-05 111 1 addressed. I think this is the way it should -- should have 2 been from the first. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We did -- 4 MR. ODOM: I'd recommend acceptance. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We did restrict both 6 lots, the no habitable dwelling unless the water issues were 7 resolved at some future date, meaning community water 8 system, or some shared -- shared water. And -- but my 9 question is, I thought we were going to put a restriction on 10 the pump tract as well. Did we not agree to that, 11 Mr. Voelkel? 12 MR. VOELKEL: That's correct, yes, sir. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pardon? 14 MR. VOELKEL: I think the owner, in his 15 letter or response, agreed to that, yes, sir. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So there should be a 17 -- either a change on Note 5 to identify lots -- the pump 18 tract and Lot 2, or an additional plat note. 19 MR. ODOM: I don't think it could ever be 20 built on anyway. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Because of the community water 22 system language as to Lot 2. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Then let's add 24 another note. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No habitable structure, 5-9-05 112 1 period. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No habitable 3 structure would be allowed on what is designated as the pump 4 tract. I think that was the basis of our agreement -- 5 understanding. 6 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. With that, I 8 think all of the issues that we had talked about in the past 9 have been reasonably resolved. County Attorney's been 10 involved in this, and he -- he proffered a list of seven or 11 eight questions to the owner, to which the owner has 12 responded. To your satisfaction, Mr. County Attorney? The 13 answers, are they to your satisfaction? 14 MR. EMERSON: Well, I think the proper answer 15 to that is, it's not my decision, Commissioner. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, but he did answer 17 your questions? 18 MR. EMERSON: He did answer the questions, 19 yes, but the information is for y'all to disseminate and 20 make a decision on. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: With all that in 22 place, then, and adding a Number 9 plat note, I would move 23 approval of -- of the preliminary plat of Mosty Pecan Grove, 24 Precinct 2, as detailed before the Court today. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 5-9-05 113 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 2 approval as conditioned. Any question or discussion? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question I have is on the 4 Note 8. Any resubdivision, is that -- well, I'll let Rex 5 look at it. Is that appropriate? Can we do that? Do we 6 say at this point that no sub -- that any subdivision of Lot 7 1 has to be off the state highway, and deny access to J.J. 8 Lane? 9 MR. EMERSON: Well, I think what you're 10 creating with an agreement of the property owner -- it was 11 my understanding he's agreed to it -- is that if there's any 12 further subdivisions and they want the access off J.J. Lane, 13 you're increasing the burden on J.J. Lane, and it's going to 14 be subject to paying the expenses to widen it. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess my view is, you 16 have a road there. Part of that easement is in Lot 1. How 17 are you going to control access on J.J. Lane? I see no 18 possible way to do it. And I don't think -- I really doubt 19 -- I don't think -- I question whether you can do that. I 20 mean, unless -- if you had one lot that was that whole 21 length, maybe that one lot -- 22 MR. ODOM: Are you saying that we need to go 23 to 60 foot, then? Or 40 foot? Minimum's 40. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just -- I just 25 question -- I just don't know, you know, that you can do 5-9-05 114 1 that. And I don't know how you do it. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, my 3 understanding is Lot 2, as identified on this plat, is 4 purchased by the owner of -- Mr. Trice; is that correct? 5 MR. VOELKEL: I'm sorry? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Who's purchasing 7 Lot 2? 8 MR. VOELKEL: It's called the Pam White 9 Family Trust. It's a family trust that's buying Lot 2, the 10 12-acre tract. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And they are the 12 owners of the tract across; is that correct? 13 MR. VOELKEL: That's not correct, no, sir. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That is not correct? 15 MR. VOELKEL: Different owner. 16 MR. ODOM: Different owner. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the -- I mean, Lot -- 18 MR. VOELKEL: Mr. Letz, I think the reason 19 that's on there -- and let me explain what my understanding 20 of it was. Say a person bought Lot 2 and they wanted to 21 resubdivide it. They bring to you a subdivision plat, and 22 they have access off of J.J. Lane, which is a 30-foot 23 private road, to put in new roads on Lot 1. You have the 24 right to deny that. And I think this plat note says up 25 front, it probably will be denied by Commissioners Court if 5-9-05 115 1 you choose to do that. I don't know that you can limit, as 2 you say, the access to somebody that might be down on that 3 road, but you can sure limit an approval of another plat 4 that comes forward using J.J. Lane as their main entrance 5 into that subdivision. Is that -- 6 MR. ODOM: That's essentially it, right. And 7 since either we have to do it now to widen it all the way 8 up, since one individual owns it, because Lot 2 -- I don't 9 know how you force Lot 2 to give any wider easement. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, that's what I'm 11 saying. So, I think you're creating a future problem, 12 because once this -- once we allow this, you cannot widen 13 J.J. Lane in the future without getting two people -- you 14 know, I mean, this Lot 2, obviously -- 15 MR. VOELKEL: You have to get Lot 2 to 16 participate also. 17 MR. ODOM: Also. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. Well, but that's, 19 I mean, I would think unlikely. 20 MR. VOELKEL: Very unlikely. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You couldn't widen 22 J.J. Lane under any circumstances if any one of these 23 property owners objected. 24 MR. ODOM: I think -- I don't know if we have 25 the proprietary right to grant an easement or -- to private 5-9-05 116 1 -- to a private road. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mr. Mosty owns part of 3 that easement, and Mr. Mosty clearly has a right to that 4 road. 5 MR. ODOM: I agree with you. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If he sells it to 10 7 people, those people have a right to that road. 8 MR. ODOM: At 15 foot, that's correct. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. And so we're 10 allowing -- in my mind, I look at this as a precedent, that 11 we're going to be saying that you don't -- that developers 12 do not have to improve private roads that access their 13 developments, 'cause I don't think that note makes any sense 14 or works. Because someone -- if you look at the shape of 15 that lot, there's going to be multiple property owners, if 16 that's ever subdivided, fronting J.J. Lane, and there's no 17 way that we're going to make those people not be able to use 18 J.J. Lane. I just don't see how you can legally do that. 19 MR. VOELKEL: Except for your plat approval. 20 In other words, they're going -- if they do resubdivide that 21 lot, they're going to have to come before you, the Court, 22 for approval of their plat, and at that time, I would assume 23 that the plat would not be approved because J.J. Lane is not 24 an adequate road for accessing a subdivision of that tract. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We don't know that 5-9-05 117 1 subsequent development or subdivisions of Lot Number 1 will 2 result in property owners having only access -- or having 3 access, period, to J.J. Lane. What we're saying is that 4 if that is subdivided in the future for purposes of 5 development, everything has to come and go out of 6 Highway 27. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think you can do 8 that. I think the people that own -- end up owning the 9 piece that fronts J.J. Lane have a legal right to use that 10 road. But if, by buying that property, they have the 11 easement on their property, clearly they have the right to 12 use it, and I don't see how we can stop that. 13 MR. ODOM: Well, the question would be, is 30 14 foot enough, if it's subdivided into 1-acre lots, in the 15 road that's there, or do we got to widen it? The minimum 16 width is 40. Do we go to 60? Before, we were saying that I 17 didn't have the right to give -- to get 60 foot. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, we said we needed a 19 legal opinion, and Rex says yes, we have the right; we can 20 require it as a matter of -- the weight of the value issue, 21 basically, as I read in his memo. And so it's a gray area. 22 And, you know, I -- my preference would be to widen it. Not 23 to 60 feet; to go something like 45 feet. I think that's a 24 better situation, rather than a platting note. But, you 25 know, I'm just one person. 5-9-05 118 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you have any more 2 thoughts, Mr. County Attorney? 3 MR. EMERSON: Not beyond the memo, 4 Commissioner. Now, the problem is that there is no clear 5 mathematical formula, and it's a proportional test. And 6 because of -- the actual burden that's on the initial 7 subdivision is not much of an increase on J.J. Lane. You're 8 still stuck in the middle of a gray cloud. You know, if 9 this thing went to litigation, I would give you fifty-fifty; 10 it could go either direction. There's no telling. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 12 discussion on the motion? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Was there an actual 14 motion? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I moved to approve it 17 based on the preliminary plat. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: With the addition of that one 19 plat note with regard to Lot 2. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Or, excuse me, as to the pump 22 tract. Excuse me. 23 MR. ODOM: Pump tract. No habitable 24 structure on the pump tract. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 5-9-05 119 1 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 2 your right hand. 3 (Commissioners Baldwin, Williams, and Nicholson voted in favor of the motion.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed? 5 (Commissioner Letz voted against the motion.) 6 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Let's go 8 to Item 15, consider the concept plan for Lot 91 of Clear 9 Springs Ranches #2 to allow for rental of manufactured 10 homes. This is located in Precinct 2. 11 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. The owner of Lot 91 in 12 Clear Springs Ranches #2 was sent to our office from 13 Environmental Health. He has a homestead on a lot that he 14 has access off of Katy Lane, Lot 91A. He has added another 15 manufactured home to rent with access off of Hidden Acres, 16 Lot 91B, and he wishes to place yet another on Lot 91C to 17 rent. He plans to rent them to family members. This 18 property has a public water system. He plans to have 91B 19 and C on the same septic. If the Court allows an alternate 20 plat, he will need a variance from -- for lot frontage off 21 of Hidden Acres. I had talked to the Commissioner; we had 22 gone over this, and then since three -- after talking about 23 subdividing this and alternate platting process, the 24 individual was wanting to go to three. A discussion came up 25 with Mr. Letz in reference to this when he was over for a 5-9-05 120 1 concept meeting also, and Commissioner Letz asked us to 2 revisit this to the Court because of the interpretation of 3 manufacturing lots -- rental home lots. And the -- our 4 subdivision rules say two or more, but we've gone back and 5 I've asked Truby, what was the standard that Franklin had? 6 Is this where we had it? And back in 2001, the Court -- 7 Judge Henneke and Commissioner Letz -- there was an 8 exception made, and Franklin followed that exception. In 9 other words, basically, what this man has shown on one lot 10 was acceptable. That Judge Henneke -- and correct me if I'm 11 wrong, Truby, but I believe that the Judge said that it had 12 to be more than two rentals; that an individual could live 13 in one and could rent two out, and that was the way Road and 14 Bridge had gone. Frank had used that for years. But we're 15 coming to the Court and asking for direction. What -- what 16 is -- Commissioner Letz says no, but precedence has been 17 yes. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Let me clear it up. 19 There was -- and I don't remember the exact situation; I 20 think it was out in Precinct 4, and the Court, by court 21 order, gave a vote for it at the time, but said that the 22 manufactured rental home rules don't give an allowance for 23 multiple mobile homes. I mean, if you have one rental, it 24 qualifies. Well, we decided at that time that that was 25 maybe too strict, and we allowed -- two? Two rentals? 5-9-05 121 1 MR. ODOM: Two rentals. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Two rentals before -- so 3 it would be the third rental was when you triggered the 4 rule. That was just a court order; it wasn't a -- you know, 5 it was, I guess, a precedent that we set at that time, but 6 that's not what our rules say. So, I thought it was a good 7 opportunity to bring this back to the Court and say, does 8 the Court want to continue to follow that precedent, or 9 follow our rules, which say if you rent one, it's a rental 10 home community? Now, there is the issue of family members, 11 and I could have sworn that there was that exemption in the 12 manufactured rental home community rules. I couldn't find 13 that the other day, that exemption in there, so that may or 14 may not be. If we're going to make it two -- that you can 15 rent the first two, you know, without having to go under our 16 rules, I think we need to change our rules, and that's kind 17 of why I brought it to court. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What does the rules 19 say, two or three? 20 MR. ODOM: Two or more. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Two or more. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I'm troubled by 23 dividing it into just two pieces or three pieces, as he's 24 talking about, because I think that's asking for some 25 problems downstream with respect to two of them on the same 5-9-05 122 1 septic, and later somebody deciding to sell off one or the 2 other of them on metes and bounds, and I think that that 3 opens up a potential for another problem. My preference in 4 this thing -- and Mr. Odom and I have discussed it at great 5 length, and I've kind of come full circle on it, but my 6 preference is that it be only -- only divided into two 7 parcels, and that the two rental units fall under the 8 provisions of the mobile -- of the mobile sections of our 9 subdivision -- mobile rental sections. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, let me -- let me 11 just read what the rules say right now, and it's definition 12 of a manufactured home rental community. It means a plot or 13 tract of land that is separated into two or more spaces or 14 lots that are rented, leased, or offered for rent or lease 15 for a term of less than 60 months without purchase option. 16 So, it's two or more. And I would say that can mean you can 17 have your residence, -- 18 MR. ODOM: Have one. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- have one free, and 20 then the second one you rent. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Two or more. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 23 MR. ODOM: But the Court has done just the 24 opposite, you know. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The Court said you had 5-9-05 123 1 two, and then the third one -- 2 MR. ODOM: Third one was the -- was the 3 kicker. It was two or more. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I see in my precinct this 5 is becoming more and more of a problem, and I would prefer 6 to go back to the rule. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I prefer to go back to 8 the rules. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't have any 10 problem with it; I prefer it as well. My -- my option would 11 be for the owner to divide it into two pieces, and that the 12 two mobile units fall under the mobile manufactured home 13 rental rules of the subdivision currently in place. Now, is 14 that before us to do it that way, or is this -- are we 15 looking at an option there? 16 MR. ODOM: Well, I -- when we talked, this is 17 the way we thought we were going, and then after I came back 18 from you, then this individual came in with this. We were 19 also talking about a variance, because we only have 20 180 feet, not 200 feet up there, so we would need a variance 21 on the frontage off Hidden Acres Road. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: This is a concept plan? 23 MR. ODOM: This is a concept plan. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: No action taken? 25 MR. ODOM: There's no action needed, other 5-9-05 124 1 than a direction of the Court, and that's what this 2 individual wanted before he -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: According to your 4 drawing here -- somebody's drawing, we wouldn't -- if we go 5 with only dividing this into two pieces, there isn't a 6 frontage problem on Hidden Acres Road, because the piece 7 that will contain the two rental units is -- according to 8 this drawing, is larger than 180 feet. Longer than 9 180 feet. 10 MS. HARDIN: The Subdivision Rules say 11 200 feet. 12 MR. ODOM: 200 feet. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: My point is, it's 14 longer than 180, so it's -- if you look at it, it's 200 or 15 more. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're saying the total 17 distance is 180 now. 18 MR. ODOM: That's right. The total distance 19 right now is -- 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the total? 21 Not just with the -- 22 MR. ODOM: No, sir. No, sir. 23 MS. HARDIN: That's the whole thing. 24 MR. ODOM: That's what I was saying before. 25 If we do the other one, you'd have the variance on both 5-9-05 125 1 lots, at least 90 foot or whatever it came to, and this is 2 better at 180. Now, my understanding is that this -- we 3 don't have topo on this, just a piece of drawing, but I 4 believe that this is elevated. And, really, I don't know if 5 there's any more that can be built on this property or not. 6 MR. ARREOLA: It slopes on that property. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Say it again? 8 MR. ARREOLA: A lot of slope on the property. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: My concern is when you're 10 going to join two habitation units on the same septic 11 system, necessarily, you're going to have to put it on one 12 tract or another tract, or split it down the middle. And 13 down the road, it's going to happen at some point in time, 14 whether it's going to have to be a conveyance out, and -- 15 and you got the problem. 16 MR. ARREOLA: State law doesn't allow you to 17 have -- to cross property lines, so we won't allow septics 18 in there. So, it's -- they have to have their own septic in 19 their own lot. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's my concern, 21 Judge, the same. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the concept plan, as I 23 understand it, was that 91B and 91C are on the same septic. 24 MR. ARREOLA: Yeah. We will not approve it 25 that way. 5-9-05 126 1 MS. HARDIN: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You won't approve 3 that? 4 MR. ARREOLA: Not that way, not with two lots 5 on one septic. They have to have one lot for that. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, okay. So, if 7 we end up with one lot with two units, and you say one 8 septic can be approved, it still doesn't satisfy, in my 9 mind, what happens downstream someplace when he decides he 10 wants to sell off. 11 MR. ARREOLA: Have to build a second septic. 12 MR. ODOM: Have to separate a second -- if we 13 divide it into three, then he would have to do that. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. But -- my mind was 15 off somewhere when y'all first got on this concept plan 16 thing again after we talked about rules. He wants to have 17 two lots and rent two mobile homes on one of the lots? 18 MR. ODOM: That's right. 19 MS. HARDIN: He doesn't really care how you 20 divide the land up. He doesn't plan on selling the land. 21 He just -- he has the homestead. He has one mobile home in 22 place, which is the B. He wants to put the third one in. 23 Is there any way he can do that? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, if he plats it or 25 does it, he's got to follow our rules. 5-9-05 127 1 MR. ODOM: If he puts the third mobile home? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The third one's going to 3 have to -- he just wants to put the third one in, so why 4 plat it? He just comes under our rental home community 5 rules. 6 MS. HARDIN: He can do the whole lot as a -- 7 as a manufactured home community? Is that what you're 8 saying? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Could be. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, he's going to have 11 to follow those rules either way. He's going to have -- you 12 know, if he's going to have a lot and rent two on it, he's 13 still triggered our rules. Unless he's going to live in 14 one, which he's not; can't live in two residences. So, he's 15 going to be under our rental community rules, period, the 16 way I look at it, unless I don't understand. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think you're 18 correct. The -- the frontage variance issue, I -- I would 19 like to apply some common sense to this thing. What is the 20 site distance like? I mean, is that a safe area, far as 21 you're concerned? Or -- 22 MS. HARDIN: It's not a County-maintained 23 road. 24 MR. ODOM: I don't know that much about it. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If we leave it at one 5-9-05 128 1 lot, it all becomes academic, right? 2 MS. HARDIN: In order to add one more trailer 3 and get a septic, then he would have to do the rental 4 community, correct? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. Just follow the 6 rules, which is -- 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Either that, or he 8 has to leave it as it is? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's a different set of 10 rules. 11 MR. ODOM: That, or he leaves that one 12 trailer there. If he went with that one trailer, he doesn't 13 need to do anything, right? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. He can keep his 15 one rental and not do anything, or he can follow the rental 16 community rules. 17 MR. ODOM: But we're looking at if there's 18 two or more trailers on a lot, then the manufactured rental 19 rules apply? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct. 22 MR. ODOM: All that's been done before. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I had a question, and 24 y'all went right back to what you was talking about before 25 my question. I want my question answered. Not talking 5-9-05 129 1 about rental community; I'm not interested in that. I want 2 to know -- Hidden Acres is a private road? 3 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Does our regulations 5 not address that? I mean, are they not required to have 200 6 foot frontage on a private road? 7 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. 8 MS. HARDIN: Yes. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We can deal with that. 10 MS. HARDIN: We are not aware of the line of 11 sight, because we don't maintain the road. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Well, I can't 13 -- I can't vote for a variance, then, without that. I 14 won't. 15 MR. ODOM: All right. Well, this is just a 16 concept now, so I -- we'll get back with the individual and 17 we'll get back with Commissioner Williams. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He's going to have to 19 come -- I think, develop a development plan as we have 20 required. 21 MR. ODOM: Okay. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything further on that 23 agenda item? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, that's simple 25 stuff there. 5-9-05 130 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move on to Item 16, 2 consider and discuss the approval of a contract with KISD 3 and Kerr County Juvenile Facility regarding the educating of 4 KISD-expelled students at the juvenile facility and have 5 authorize County Judge to sign same. 6 MS. HARRIS: This is the proposal that came 7 up back in the early fall when Dr. Troxel, the 8 Superintendent of Kerrville ISD, approached me. If I would 9 provide the space by which court-ordered expelled students 10 would attend school, they would be educated by Kerrville ISD 11 teachers. They would be transported by Kerrville ISD 12 transportation. The only thing that we would be providing 13 is the instructional space, and for this, they would pay us 14 $19.77 per day, per student. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How much? 16 MS. HARRIS: $19.77. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Couldn't you get the 18 other 23 cents? (Laughter.) 19 MS. HARRIS: I'll see what I can do. That 20 was a flat fee that they prorated out on a per-diem basis. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I think that equates to, if I 22 understand, the State -- 23 MS. HARRIS: A.D.A. money that they get. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: A.D.A.? 25 MS. HARRIS: Yes, sir. 5-9-05 131 1 JUDGE TINLEY: And they are retaining the 2 local funds for the purpose of hiring the teachers? 3 MS. HARRIS: And the transportation. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: And the transportation. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What kind of 6 student -- or what kind of -- yeah, student -- what kind of 7 student is this? Is this a student that has been through 8 your system? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. It -- that's the only 10 way that the student can get there, is through court order 11 of the juvenile court. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. Now, I know I 13 was in your meeting the other day; we've talked about this a 14 couple times, but I can't remember -- in my mind, I picture 15 this classroom there, and if that -- if this student gets 16 out of line or hits a teacher or cusses the neighbor or 17 whatever they do, can you simply pick them up by the ear and 18 move -- we don't pick them up by the ear, I'm sorry. Pick 19 them up, move them across the hall, and lock them up? 20 MS. HARRIS: Only under court order that we 21 would be allowed to do that. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can you pick them up 23 and hold them till the Judge says you're court-ordered to 24 cross the hall, locked up? Can you do that? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: The Juvenile -- 5-9-05 132 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: For acting up in 2 class? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: The Juvenile Probation 4 Department -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: -- having that child under its 7 jurisdiction, whether it's under an order of release or -- 8 or terms of probation order, would have some ongoing 9 jurisdiction of that child, and if the child's violating the 10 conditions of that release or -- or probation order, the 11 Juvenile Probation order can direct the -- the facility to 12 take that child into detention. 13 MS. HARRIS: Yes. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: And that's how it's effected. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 16 MS. HARRIS: Yes. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Typically, these are 18 truancy-type students? 19 MS. HARRIS: These are students that 20 Kerrville ISD has expelled for whatever reasons they deem to 21 expel that child, and the reasons can be extremely varied as 22 to why they would want to expel that child from their 23 campus. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Well, I think, 25 basically, the establishment of this program is good. 5-9-05 133 1 MS. HARRIS: It certainly keeps those 2 expelled students in school, which is what they need, and 3 they are not at home watching TV. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or getting into more 5 trouble. 6 MS. HARRIS: Or getting into more trouble. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What's the potential 8 for this program having some adverse impact on your primary 9 mission? Is this going to be a distraction to you, or are 10 you going to consume resources to do it? 11 MS. HARRIS: No, sir, because my -- my 12 juvenile detention officers would not intervene unless that 13 expelled student presented a physical threat to our 14 adjudicated kids. Then that would be the only reason why 15 one of my officers might have to step in. Otherwise, it is 16 the responsibility of Kerrville ISD personnel to notify the 17 Juvenile Probation Department that this child is being 18 unruly in class. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They send a school bus 20 after them, they provide the teachers. All we're doing is 21 providing a space for a whopping $19.77. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What kind of -- how 23 many such students might we expect? 24 MS. HARRIS: Dr. Troxel indicated to me for 25 this summer, there would be two. 5-9-05 134 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question I have is under 2 the scope. It's for only -- refers only to expelled 3 students referred to juvenile facility by KISD or other 4 school districts, so the Judge is not involved. The school 5 district is. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I have to be involved. 7 MS. HARRIS: The Judge has to be. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's what I thought. 9 Shouldn't it say here, under the scope, and approved or sent 10 or something by a court order? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: They -- it goes through the 12 Juvenile Probation Department. When the expulsion occurs, 13 oftentimes I'll already have jurisdiction. Probably in 14 nine-plus out of ten cases, I'll already have jurisdiction 15 of them. In the others, the conduct is such that they're 16 subject to jurisdiction. But the only way they can be 17 court-ordered to participate in that program is through the 18 juvenile court. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: They must be -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I understand that, but 22 I'm just saying, the way I read this, it's -- KISD does the 23 referral, and it seems to me there's a referral by the 24 juvenile justice system and KISD. 25 MS. HARRIS: They contact -- KISD would 5-9-05 135 1 contact Kevin's department for the expulsion hearing at 2 campus. And KISD -- 3 MR. STANTON: Being expelled from school is a 4 criminal offense. Doesn't matter what you're expelled for. 5 Being expelled from school is a Class C misdemeanor, and 6 once that child is expelled by the school district, it 7 becomes a criminal offense with our department -- or 8 delinquency before our department. And at that time, we 9 then take it into our possession and we refer it to the 10 County Attorney's office and to the County Court, at which 11 time the Judge would then place that child in -- in the 12 detention program. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So -- 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Glad those rules 15 weren't in effect when I was young. I'd be a repeat 16 offender. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Me too. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, y'all are all happy 19 with the language? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a question, 21 however. Under scope, where Commissioner Letz made note of, 22 it talked about KISD or by other school districts. KISD may 23 only have a limited number of students or individuals, but 24 this would be open to Ingram ISD or -- 25 MS. HARRIS: Yes. 5-9-05 136 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- any other ISD? 2 MS. HARRIS: Center Point. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Gillespie County or 4 anywhere else; is that correct? 5 MS. HARRIS: Yes, sir. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And the amount that 7 would be charged per day for any student sent by any school 8 district would be $19.77? 9 MS. HARRIS: Yes, sir. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Even Center Point. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Even Center Point. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I know y'all have a 14 hard time admitting that, but Center Point -- 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm sorry, I failed 16 to note that they might also participate. Even Center 17 Point. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move approval of the 19 contract between KISD -- Kerrville ISD and Kerr County 20 Juvenile Facility regarding educating -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- KISD or other expelled 23 students. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 5-9-05 137 1 approval. Any further question or discussion? All in favor 2 of that motion, signify by raising your right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's 7 move to Item 17, consider and discuss the Butt-Holdsworth 8 Memorial Library contract between the City of Kerrville and 9 Kerr County. Commissioner Nicholson, you placed this item 10 on the agenda. I'll turn it over to you. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Judge, I have 12 nothing to offer on that subject at this time. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anyone else want to 14 come with anything there? If not, we'll move on to Item 18, 15 consider and discuss a peer comparison survey that analyzes 16 the cost of Kerr County government compared to 12 other 17 Texas counties with populations of 40,000 to 50,000. 18 Commissioner Nicholson? 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: This is the third 20 chapter in some studies that began back in 2003. In 2003, 21 the County Judge did a survey of five counties, including 22 Kerr County, that -- that had similar characteristics in 23 terms of population and other -- other characteristics, and 24 he pulled together some data that had to do with salaries 25 and organization and number of employees and activity. And 5-9-05 138 1 then in the last budget year, 2004, I used the data to 2 calculate some metrics to help measure the efficacy of 3 several of our departments compared to the -- those four 4 that are peers, some metrics that showed there was some 5 question about efficiency and costs. And this year, 6 prompted in part by our current circumstances and 7 Commissioner Williams' comments about the need to take a 8 very close look at our costs and productivity and our -- and 9 our budgets, I was able to get some data from Texas 10 Association of Counties that showed information on every 11 county in Texas with a population of between 40,000 and 12 50,000, and that turned out to be 14 counties. Well, 13 actually, I got information on 14 counties, but incomplete 14 information on one county. 15 So, following the same process I used on the 16 metrics, I prepared some data that compares the cost of 17 government per population, and then the number of employees 18 per population, calling one of them Efficiency of Government 19 Comparison and the other one the Employee Productivity 20 Comparison. And what I found was that Kerr County was the 21 most costly of those peer comparisons, and that Kerr County 22 used more employees than the -- than the other counties. 23 So, essentially, I find that Kerr is an expensive 24 government, and -- and a major reason that we're expensive 25 is we have a relatively comparatively large staff. 5-9-05 139 1 After I ran those numbers, I wondered if -- I 2 did notice that some of those counties did not have 3 significant city populations, so I wondered if there was 4 some correlation between being expensive and having a large 5 municipal population. And what I -- so I looked at -- I 6 found that five of those counties, including Kerr, had a 7 municipality with a population of more than 20,000, that 8 being Maverick, Navarro, Kerr, Lamar, and Val Verde. And 9 when I look at the productivity and the cost efficiency of 10 those other four counties, I see that three of them -- 11 Maverick, Lamar, and Val Verde -- are cost-efficient and -- 12 and are relatively productive, and that one of them, 13 Navarro, was about average, maybe a little higher than 14 average. I tried to get information on budgets and 15 population of those cities, which are Eagle Pass, Corsicana, 16 Kerrville, Paris, and Del Rio, and I was only able to get 17 information on three of them. And what I found was that -- 18 that the counties that are expensive tend to have cities in 19 them that are expensive. So, I found no correlation between 20 municipal population and county efficiency and productivity. 21 What I see here is an opportunity to do a 22 better job of controlling our costs. I have experienced 23 that a typical reaction to this kind of comparison is one of 24 two things; that -- that organizations will spend their 25 energy trying to rationalize the results of trying to find 5-9-05 140 1 some reason why they don't -- the indicators are wrong, 2 or -- and another typical reaction is that -- or situation 3 is try to find out how those other organizations achieved a 4 better cost-effectiveness and better productivity, and then 5 emulate those methods. So, what I'm suggesting is that all 6 of our departments, whether they're headed by an appointed 7 or elected official, ought to take a hard look at the 8 organization in -- in these other counties and see if 9 there's ways that we can reduce costs, and particularly look 10 at systems and methods and approaches to getting more work 11 done with fewer people. That's all. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I -- I appreciate the 13 work you've done, though I'm not sure I understand 14 everything that you said and all your comparisons. But I 15 think your conclusion I do agree with, though it doesn't 16 serve a great deal of value for us to look at Val Verde's 17 tax department versus our tax department or something like 18 that necessarily, but other -- but there is a value in all 19 department heads, either elected or not, to look at their 20 organization and contact others -- I think most of ours do 21 have contact with others within their associations -- to see 22 if there's a better way to do things. We all know that 23 there's certain -- every county has unique characteristics, 24 so you can't compare apples to apples all the time. But 25 there's a big indicator that -- you know, I think there is a 5-9-05 141 1 message that Kerr County is a pretty expensive county, and 2 anything that we can do to curb that is a plus to the 3 taxpayers. So I think, you know, I would encourage everyone 4 to do what you've asked. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Commissioner, I 6 appreciate your efforts. This does indicate -- sort of 7 supports my contention that there -- there is room for 8 improvement in this regard, and in our -- in our county 9 system. And I think it's important not to -- at this 10 juncture, not to single out departments and say these are 11 the ones that need to perhaps reduce the workforce or 12 increase their productivity. But I think it is -- suffice 13 it to say it's well at this point to challenge, as I think 14 you've done, all of the elected officials and department 15 heads to find ways to trim it down. If, within our 16 system -- I think I noted this earlier. If, within our 17 system, we were to find a way to reduce our -- our employee 18 count by eight to ten, we would go a long way toward taking 19 care of those increases that we are going to face with 20 respect to health insurance and other matters that confront 21 us each year in significant amounts, plus taking care of 22 the -- of the employee group. So, I appreciate the efforts 23 you did. Looks like we're going to have an interesting 24 budget session this year. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I had a visit with him 5-9-05 142 1 in the men's room about it. (Laughter.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: So you're in on this? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm good. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: The -- of course, the budget 5 requests are out and due to be in shortly, and after I get 6 those, I'm going to be working with the various elected 7 officials and department heads, and I look forward to 8 working with them and listening to their ideas, how they can 9 do things more efficiently. And it may be that some 10 technology answers are out there; it may be that some 11 training answers are out there. It might be a lot of 12 answers that are out there. And I -- I look forward to 13 working with all of them, because I think they're going to 14 make the effort to try and make things as efficient as they 15 can in each of their respective departments. But we'll 16 get -- 17 MS. UECKER: You're just looking for dark 18 chocolate. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm sorry? 20 MS. UECKER: You're just looking for dark 21 chocolate. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: We always look for that, of 23 course. But I'm confident that we'll get the cooperation we 24 need to try and make things as efficient as possible. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One question, and just 5-9-05 143 1 looking at one county particularly that I'm somewhat 2 familiar with, and I just don't understand the number. It's 3 about the total budget number for Val Verde County. Is 4 there -- this shows a total budget of $4.5 million. There 5 is no way. I mean, there's something wrong with that 6 number. They have a lot of government, and they have a lot 7 of employees in that county, and I'm wondering if there's -- 8 this -- not that it makes that much difference really, but 9 it seems that there's something missing there. I don't 10 know. Maybe it's because of the air base there; they get a 11 huge pile from the federal government. I don't know what it 12 is, but something looks real odd in Val Verde County. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: There's another 14 anomaly that I noticed. Rusk County and Kerr County have 15 about the same total market value of the tax base, and Kerr 16 County's budget is twice what Rusk's is. Does that mean 17 their taxes are half what ours are? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Interesting question. I think 19 it behooves all of us to take a look at that. Anything else 20 from anybody on the Court on that particular item? I'd like 21 to kind of charge forward, if we might. Item 19, consider, 22 discuss, and take appropriate action on a resolution 23 declaring May 10, 2005 as Kerr County Law Day. That is 24 tomorrow. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I don't know 5-9-05 144 1 why I was selected to put this in. This should have been 2 something that you did. But what we're -- what we're doing 3 is resolving to declare May 10th as Kerr County Law Day. I 4 move the resolution. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 7 approval of the resolution. Any question or discussion? 8 All in favor, signify by raising your right hand. 9 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Next 13 item is consider and discuss approval of Administrative 14 Services Agreement between Kerr County and United of Omaha 15 Life Insurance Company and Health Reimbursement Account 16 Administration in connection with the employee benefits 17 program. And I put this on the agenda after our consultant 18 said he had reviewed this thing in-depth and had coordinated 19 and had the appropriate changes that he thought necessary 20 made to it, and presented it back to us for approval. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have some questions. 22 Is somebody going to make a presentation or something? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: We have Mr. Wallace here. 24 We -- we have Mr. Malek here. If there are any questions 25 for them, they're available. 5-9-05 145 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do have questions. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All right, sir. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me begin with 4 Exhibit 7 of -- let's see, what is this thing, an agreement? 5 The COBRA Billing and Collection Services. And my question 6 is, of all -- all of the duties, if you look at Exhibit 7 -- 7 I'm sorry, 7-1 at the bottom. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It outlines here what 10 the company shall do and the contract holder shall do and 11 all those kinds of things, and there's some questions about 12 all of that. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: This exhibit is 14 entitled "COBRA Billing and Collection Services"? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. Mm-hmm, it 16 sure enough is. And I'll try to get through all of this and 17 have us at lunch by about 2:00 or 2:30 if I can. I am -- 18 what I'm seeing here is -- who's going to do this? Which 19 one of you guys do this? 20 MR. MALEK: You -- you pick. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: One of you come up 22 here. Let's get going here. 23 MR. MALEK: Carey Malek with Mutual of Omaha. 24 It's my contract, so I'll address it. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That would be very 5-9-05 146 1 wise, Carey. What -- your company shall do all of these 2 things that are outlined here; is that correct? 3 MR. MALEK: That's right. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: And Kerr County -- in the bid 5 spreadsheet, Kerr County pays you all to do that; is that 6 correct? 7 MR. MALEK: Right. That's 50 cents a head 8 P.E.M. -- per employee, per month. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. For the 10 COBRA? 11 MR. MALEK: Correct. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And 30 cents for the 13 HIPAA? 14 MR. MALEK: For HIPAA notifications, correct. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And the annual cost 16 for administration is $64,000 to take care of all these 17 things? 18 MR. MALEK: For all of the admin, not for 19 just the COBRA portion of it? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, it says here -- 21 it says here administration for COBRA and HIPAA. It just 22 lists those two things, and that's one of my questions, 23 actually. 24 MR. MALEK: Well, if you want to assume 300 25 employees, that's $2,800, almost $2,900 for the annual cost 5-9-05 147 1 for that portion of it. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm just reading off 3 this. 4 MR. MALEK: Okay. I don't have that. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What page are you reading 7 that number on, Buster? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's off of this -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Off the bids. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sorry, I don't think 13 that you all have that. Treasurer? 14 MS. NEMEC: Yes, sir? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Help me understand 16 what I'm trying to read here, please. 17 MS. NEMEC: Well, it looks like, from the 18 exhibit, that company shall -- I guess that would be Mutual 19 of Omaha -- provide those services, and from what I 20 understand, the only time they would be providing those 21 services is if an employee or dependent of an employee chose 22 to go on COBRA benefits. Under "Contract holder shall," I 23 believe that is my office, shall do all those things. 24 However, that is on every employee that terminates and every 25 dependent of an employee who terminates. I have had a 5-9-05 148 1 discussion with Mr. Wallace, because I was very surprised 2 when I saw this, because we have never, ever had to 3 administer these COBRA benefits to our employees before. 4 Our third-party administrator has always done that for us. 5 So when I talked to Mr. Looney at the very beginning of the 6 process, I explained to him, and so when I saw this come 7 across my desk, I was real surprised that that duty was 8 being put on the County to do, and yet their bid came in -- 9 for COBRA and HIPAA came in higher than all the others. 10 Regardless, just to let the Court know that this will take 11 special training for me and my employees, because we have 12 not been to any type of training on COBRA and HIPAA laws 13 before. So, I'm -- we'll be coming in for a budget 14 amendment in the next couple of agenda items to get more 15 money for employee training. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Here's my question on 17 all that. Thank you for that. Is that -- this is the first 18 time that you -- that you've been required to do exactly 19 what? To maintain the files? 20 MS. NEMEC: And to notify -- and to know the 21 laws governing COBRA and HIPAA, and to notify all the 22 terminated employees and their dependents. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. When she says 24 that, then I look -- then I look on the -- on the bid sheet 25 here, to where we are -- in my mind, we are paying you to do 5-9-05 149 1 those things. 2 MR. MALEK: Well, you can interpret it many 3 different ways. There's a lot of different services under 4 COBRA that you can provide. The portion that we're asking 5 you to do is only to provide a form to the employee when 6 they terminate. That's it. We do everything else. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's all you're 8 asking the County Treasurer to do, is to provide -- say it 9 again? 10 MR. MALEK: You -- we provide the form. 11 That, upon termination, and when you normally do an exit 12 interview, you have the form and you give that to that 13 employee, and then you're done. That is the only -- 14 MS. NEMEC: No. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That sounds like a 16 fair thing. 17 MS. NEMEC: No, the law requires you to send 18 notification by mail to the employee, and -- and I believe I 19 shared with you a conference that we'll have to be going to, 20 and if you look inside there, we will have to be trained on 21 all that. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Have to be trained on 23 all of these things? 24 MR. MALEK: You would have had to do this 25 irrespective of whether your prior carrier or anybody else 5-9-05 150 1 is doing that. It's an employer liability, meaning that 2 if -- even if the -- if your administrator screws it up, 3 you, the employer, are liable for it. And -- and a 4 third-party administrator cannot assume that liability, 5 because it is an employer liability. 6 MS. NEMEC: But we can't do it on the exit 7 interview. You're saying we do it on the exit interview, 8 Mr. Malek. That's not the law. 9 MR. MALEK: You guys have to do the COBRA 10 notification. That's the only part that I can add to that. 11 However you do it is -- is you comply with the COBRA laws. 12 MS. NEMEC: And it's not through the exit 13 interview; it's by mail. 14 MR. MALEK: Well, that's your concern, and 15 how you do it is the way -- Kerr County has to establish 16 some kind of procedure for that. Once that election is 17 made, then we do everything from that. We do the billing. 18 We send out the -- we actually send them a coupon booklet, 19 and then we're the -- Kerr County does not do anything. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: What triggers this whole 21 process, Mr. Malek? 22 MR. MALEK: Well, they call it a COBRA 23 termination of employment, a -- what's the term we use for 24 it? A status change. 25 MR. WALLACE: Life change. 5-9-05 151 1 MR. MALEK: It's called a COBRA status 2 change, and what triggers it typically is a termination of 3 employment, a divorce, a marriage, things of that nature. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. And that's something 5 that's going to be known to whom initially? 6 MR. MALEK: When -- most of the time, it's 7 going to be when somebody terminates their employment. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 9 MR. MALEK: That's going to be -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Going to be known to the 11 employer? 12 MR. MALEK: Right. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 14 MR. MALEK: Right. Because, again, it is an 15 employer liability; it's not a liability of the insurance 16 company, and we can't assume that liability for you. So if 17 the -- a failure of notification is made, they come after 18 the County; they don't come after the insurance company. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let me ask this 20 question. One of those events occurs, and if I understood 21 what you said a little bit ago, then the obligation of the 22 County is to notify you of this event occurring? 23 MR. MALEK: Notify the employee of that 24 event. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 5-9-05 152 1 MR. MALEK: It's an employee notification 2 requirement, not a -- not notifying Mutual of Omaha. Once 3 that employee is notified, then it -- then it is the 4 responsibility of the employee to send in the form to Mutual 5 of Omaha. Once you -- once Kerr County has made the 6 notification to the employee, your liability ends at that 7 point in time, and then we pick up the administration 8 portion of that from there. We do the termination, you 9 know. We -- if there's any extension from that period, it's 10 Mutual of Omaha that does that, and there is a -- a cost for 11 us to assume that liability. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: So, once one of these things 13 occurs, Kerr County's responsibility as an employer is 14 they're obligated to notify the employee that is having this 15 occur, whatever it may be; a divorce, a marriage, or a 16 termination, and then if the employer wants to go forward 17 with coverage or terminate coverage or wants to talk to you 18 about it or whatever they want to do, then at that point, 19 it's the employee's responsibility to contact you? 20 MR. MALEK: That's correct. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: And whatever the employee 22 wants to do is arranged through you? 23 MR. MALEK: Correct. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: And -- and the County's out of 25 it once they've given the notice to the employee? 5-9-05 153 1 MR. MALEK: That's right. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I just wanted to make 3 sure I knew how it worked. 4 MR. MALEK: I might add, we standardly do 5 this on every account that we -- there's very few that the 6 employer actually takes the whole process of COBRA in-house, 7 but they are all responsible for the initial notification. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's different 9 about the process you outline and what we did before, 10 Ms. Nemec? 11 MS. NEMEC: Well, for the past 14 years, 12 since we've been partially self-insured -- since we became 13 partially self-insured, our third-party administrator, we 14 would notify them of any terminations, any cases where 15 there's been a divorce or whatever the situation may be, and 16 they would actually go through all the steps of sending them 17 the information and notifying them of their rights under the 18 COBRA plan. All we would do is fax over the terminations to 19 the third-party administrator, and from there they would 20 take care of all the paperwork for us. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: This isn't going to 22 be a lot of work. It's a few times a year -- 23 MS. NEMEC: No, sir. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- we send a letter 25 out. 5-9-05 154 1 MS. NEMEC: Eleven times a month, we have 2 employees -- every termination, every change of family 3 status has to be done with these employees. And we're 4 having up to 11 terminations per month. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Eleven times a 6 month, we're going to have to drop a standard form letter in 7 the mail to an employee that's had a change in status and 8 say, "Here's your COBRA rights. If you want to exercise 9 them, contact Mutual of Omaha." 10 MR. MALEK: That's right. That's exactly 11 what happens. 12 MS. NEMEC: And we will have to go to this 13 school here. 14 MR. MALEK: I can't speak for the consultant 15 on this, but we did have the conversation. And, of course, 16 he has a -- a -- he has the County's interest at -- I guess, 17 in -- best interests at heart, I guess. Because he has an 18 E & O issue that he has to say, "Hey, I can't recommend that 19 you do it this way, because you've let somebody assume a 20 liability that they cannot assume." And that was the 21 reasoning for structuring the COBRA this way, and it's the 22 way that's standard in the industry. The way we do it is a 23 very standard way; it's been done in the industry. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: This standard notification 25 that must be given to the employee who's terminating, 5-9-05 155 1 getting divorced or whatever's happened to them, do you 2 provide the form that complies with current law to Kerr 3 County so that they can furnish that particular form to the 4 employee? 5 MR. MALEK: Right. We give them a standard 6 form. It's a part of our package. It's a very simple 7 one-page letter. 8 MS. NEMEC: We don't have that. 9 MS. MAGENHEIMER: We don't have the form. 10 MS. NEMEC: My staff is here if you have any 11 questions of them, but we don't have that form, and every 12 employee has to receive a letter, and each dependent has to 13 receive a separate letter. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why do we not have 15 the forms? 16 MR. MALEK: I can't answer that. It's on our 17 web site. It was provided in our administrative service 18 agreement package that I assume was delivered, so I can't 19 say -- I can't answer that question. I'm not involved in 20 the day-to-day service part of this, so there's a service 21 rep -- 22 MS. NEMEC: What do we -- 23 MR. MALEK: -- that provides that. 24 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 25 MS. CARR: We need to make up the letter. We 5-9-05 156 1 needed to create it. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is it something we're 3 supposed to pull down off the web site? 4 MR. MALEK: Yeah, it's on the web site. It's 5 just a form letter. A form -- it's just a form that says 6 here's your COBRA -- 7 JUDGE TINLEY: No problem with you forwarding 8 us several copies? 9 MR. MALEK: Be more than happy to send you a 10 copy of it. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I tell you what, we're 13 in the wrong business here. This school is a one-day 14 school, 340 bucks per person. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Have to give a test 16 at the end. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, you get your 18 handbook. Your handbook is free. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Do you get a 20 certificate suitable for framing? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: You had a question, ma'am? 22 MS. MAGENHEIMER: Yes. I work at Barbara's 23 office. I have been down there for six and a half years, 24 and the only thing we've ever had to do was, when the 25 employee was exiting, give him the form that gives him the 5-9-05 157 1 option to apply -- to take COBRA. That's the only thing 2 we've ever had to do. And I -- I don't know if you 3 gentlemen realize, we are a small office, and to place this 4 burden on us is unfair. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't understand what 6 the difference is in what you just said and what Jacqui -- 7 MS. NEMEC: What they're saying is that we 8 need to create a separate letter and send to each person in 9 that family offering them COBRA, when before, we have never 10 done this. It's always been taken care of by the 11 third-party administrator. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Almost everyone in our -- 13 I mean, very few families are even in there, so pretty much 14 almost -- almost everyone is just one person, not families. 15 We don't have a lot of family coverage. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't understand 17 the difference in terms of work for sending out the letter 18 to the employee, whose name and address you know, as opposed 19 to sending that information to Mutual of Omaha to send out 20 the letter to a person they don't know. I don't understand 21 the distinction here in terms of workload. 22 MS. NEMEC: Well, it's just another added 23 duty that we've taken on since Mutual of Omaha came on 24 board, and we wanted to just make you aware of that. That 25 they're charging a pretty penny for that, and we've always 5-9-05 158 1 paid that, but all the benefits have always been 2 administered by the third-party administrator. We're going 3 to do it. We have to do it; we have no choice. We're 4 already in May. But just be aware that there are going to 5 be budget amendments. We're going to have to go to school. 6 And, again, you start adding all these little workloads on 7 this office because all these different things that Mutual 8 of Omaha does not provide, and it adds up, Commissioner. 9 That's all we're trying to say. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't understand how -- 11 I -- I mean, I'm not understanding what you're saying. You 12 had to get the same information and -- and provide a letter 13 to the employee; that's what was just said. And now you're 14 going to make the letter -- 15 MS. NEMEC: No, it was just a form that said 16 you are -- it was just a form that was provided by a 17 third-party administrator that said if you want -- these are 18 your rights. You have -- if you want to elect COBRA, you 19 send this to the insurance person. Now, if you'll look at 20 this seminar, we have to know all those procedures right 21 there. It's a lot different than just telling them, "Here, 22 fill this out." 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The seminar -- 24 MS. NEMEC: You have to look at -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The seminar doesn't do 5-9-05 159 1 Mutual of Omaha -- 2 MS. NEMEC: No, it doesn't, but we need to go 3 to these. If you'll look at that pamphlet, that's why we 4 will have to be -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, if you drop it in the 6 mail, you have to go to a seminar; if you want to hand it to 7 them in person, you don't? 8 MS. NEMEC: There are a lot of laws, a lot of 9 guidelines. It's not just a matter of mailing it, then they 10 mail it back to you and say they want it. There's a lot of 11 deadlines. You need to look at that brochure to know what 12 we're going to have to -- 13 MR. MALEK: Once it's mailed and it's 14 received by the employee, that's it. Then it's our 15 responsibility from that point. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If there's a seminar and 17 your office needs to be trained on COBRA, I don't see the 18 difference in writing a letter and giving a form. That's 19 what I don't understand, why one -- 20 MR. MALEK: It's an employer liability, so 21 training your employees on COBRA is -- is a really wise 22 idea, whether we're doing the administration or someone else 23 is doing that administration. 'Cause it is -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Or somebody else is doing it 25 for you? 5-9-05 160 1 MR. MALEK: It's still an employer liability, 2 so if you cede that to somebody else, you're still liable 3 for it. They cannot assume that liability, so you'd still 4 be responsible for it whether somebody does it or not. So, 5 those are still good training sessions to have. 6 MS. NEMEC: They're different qualifying 7 events, and all different qualifying events have different 8 time frames when they have to be notified or -- or how, and 9 then you have to know if it's a divorce, then you can stay 10 on the plan for a certain amount of months, and if it's a 11 termination of employment, then it's another certain amount 12 of months. So, they -- they have to be knowledgeable in all 13 that. That's all I'm saying. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But what Mr. Malek is 15 saying is that you're -- we're sending them a -- a form, and 16 they're taking over after that; that we're not administering 17 it. We have one contact, is what I'm hearing. 18 MS. NEMEC: If you'll look at Exhibit C, this 19 is -- this is what the company shall do and this is what -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, I looked at it. 21 MS. NEMEC: -- the contract holder shall do. 22 The contract holder shall do all of these. That's not just 23 sending a form. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Seems it can be done. 25 MR. MALEK: Well, I mean, basically what it 5-9-05 161 1 outlines is your responsibilities under COBRA, under the 2 law, as an employer. It outlines your responsibilities, and 3 basically all we're doing is restating that you have certain 4 obligations as an employer, and you're responsible for 5 these, whether its Mutual of Omaha or E.B.A. or whoever is 6 your administrator. So, a lot of that -- 7 MS. NEMEC: That's not correct. 8 MR. MALEK: -- is -- 9 MS. NEMEC: With E.B.A., this was not our 10 responsibility. So, that's Mutual of Omaha, not just with 11 any administrator. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, what Mr. Malek is 13 saying is that the County's liable, whether it's E.B.A. or 14 anybody else. E.B.A. may have been doing it, but we were 15 still liable. 16 MR. MALEK: That's correct. They were 17 probably doing that, but they could not accept the liability 18 for what an employer -- what is an employer liability. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which is a failure to 20 notify. 21 MR. MALEK: That's correct. 22 MS. NEMEC: And we knew that all along. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So -- but, I mean, I 24 would -- 25 MR. MALEK: See, if your prior administrator 5-9-05 162 1 failed to notify any of your employees, and they came back 2 and sued, they're not suing your administrator; they're 3 suing the employer, which is Kerr County. So, you 4 ultimately are responsible for that, which is the 5 conversation I had -- I wish the consultant was here. He 6 might be able to clear that up a little bit in terms of 7 whose liability is what, and why he would recommend that it 8 be administered this way. Because he would be remiss to not 9 tell you that this is your liability. 10 MS. NEMEC: And I called the consultant, and 11 he's no longer with Catto and Catto, so I don't know where 12 we stand on all that. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: I know exactly where we stand. 14 I contacted him, and -- and he has a cooperative agreement 15 with Catto and Catto on things that he was doing there, and 16 he's handling -- 17 MS. NEMEC: I was not told that when I 18 called. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: No, we've got no problem with 20 that. We've got communication with him. 21 MR. MALEK: You might ask him to address this 22 for you. But -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: I think he did. 24 MR. MALEK: -- I think you got a good handle 25 on it. 5-9-05 163 1 JUDGE TINLEY: He stood up here and said he's 2 made any necessary changes that he thought were appropriate. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Got any more 4 questions, Mr. Baldwin? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I got one. Did you 6 say earlier you have 11 folks a month leave the employment 7 of this County? 8 MS. NEMEC: Yes, sir. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Eleven people a month? 10 MS. NEMEC: Yes, sir. Last month -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Rusty, is that all 12 your doing? 13 MS. NEMEC: Last month it was -- it was 6. 14 The month before that, it was 11. The month before that, it 15 was 11. The month before that, it was 9. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Fifty percent turnover in one 17 year. 18 MS. NEMEC: And so when -- when these people 19 leave, of course, new people get hired, and we have to go 20 through the enrollment process. So all I'm trying to tell 21 y'all to do -- I mean, all I'm trying to tell you all is 22 that this is just another little added duty, and they all 23 pile up, and just understand that that's what my office is 24 going through. That's all. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're -- 5-9-05 164 1 MS. NEMEC: It's out in the open. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why did 11 people 3 leave? Why? I cannot imagine -- 4 MS. NEMEC: I don't know. Just very -- 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are these 11 people 6 leaving our employ, or changes in status? 7 MS. NEMEC: No, leaving. These are 8 terminations. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Doesn't that -- Bill, 10 that's 50 percent turnover in our workforce. 11 MS. NEMEC: That's what we deal with. For 12 everyone that leaves, one gets hired. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm -- Judge, I'm 14 going to make a motion that we approve the Administrative 15 Services Agreement between Kerr County and United of Omaha 16 Life Insurance Company and Health Reimbursement Account 17 Administration in connection with the employee benefits 18 program. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And authorize County 20 Judge to sign same? 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes, sir. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll second it. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 24 approval of the agenda item, and authorize County Judge to 25 sign same. Any questions -- further questions or discussion 5-9-05 165 1 on the agenda item? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question -- or comment. 3 On the insurance things in general, it seems that 4 Mr. Looney, if we're paying him, ought to give a formal 5 recommendation on all these, yes or no. And I don't -- I'm 6 not sure -- I don't see one on this one. I see an e-mail, 7 but I don't see that it's really a recommendation; yes, no, 8 or indifferent. And I say that because -- I mean, in lieu 9 of having the County Attorney look at it, 'cause these 10 things are so complicated. I don't understand insurance; 11 I've said that many times, and most of these contracts are 12 very, in my mind, cumbersome. So, I just -- I would prefer 13 to have Mr. Looney -- I'll go ahead and vote on this, but I 14 think he really needs to -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: The reference in this 16 statement from the consultant, "I reviewed both contracts 17 and had MOO -- I guess that's Mutual of Omaha -- change them 18 to meet our specs." Kerr County specs. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. I guess that's -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: That's approval, the way I see 21 it. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or 24 discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion, 25 signify by raising your right hand. 5-9-05 166 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. You 5 want to go ahead and knock these last few items out right 6 quick, gentlemen? 7 MR. MALEK: Can I add something real quickly? 8 We'll be back in July, probably the second week in July, to 9 give you kind of a midterm update. We should have enough 10 claims information by then to kind of tell you where this 11 thing is going, just kind of how things are going. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Appreciate that. 13 MR. MALEK: So keep that in mind. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We can knock out 21, 15 too. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's take Item 21 up right 17 quick. Consider and discuss approving appointment of Roger 18 Bobertz for an at-large position on the Kerrville/Kerr 19 County Airport Board. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is -- under this 21 agreement from the City and the County on how the airport is 22 governed, both the City and County have to approve at-large 23 members. Roger Bobertz is a member; he's done an 24 outstanding job, in my opinion, and recommend his 25 reappointment. 5-9-05 167 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would second the 2 nomination for his reappointment, and second what 3 Commissioner Letz said. He has been an outstanding member, 4 works hard, and contributes a lot. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Lucky to have him. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Any 7 question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify 8 by raising your right hand. 9 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Why 13 don't we stand in recess until 2 o'clock. 14 (Recess taken from 12:35 p.m. to 2:00 p.m.) 15 - - - - - - - - - - 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to 17 order. We were in recess for lunch until 2:00. It's a 18 couple minutes after that now. Before we get started back 19 on the agenda, Commissioner Williams, I think, wants to 20 update the Court on what our Legislature in Austin is doing. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I will do that, 22 Judge. First I want to extend an invitation on behalf of 23 all the lawyers in Kerr County to Commissioners Court. If 24 they'd like to join in the luncheon on -- Law Day luncheon 25 tomorrow at the Inn of the Hills, you're welcome to do so. 5-9-05 168 1 Cost is $10 a person. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: God, y'all are so good 3 to us. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah, taking all 5 those lawyers out of circulation for a few hours. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A couple things moved 7 on the wire here about what's going on in the Legislature, 8 and it's the latest alert out of James Allison's office 9 regarding House Bill 3. Amended to include a revenue cap. 10 House Bill 3, public school tax bill, has been revised by 11 the Senate Finance Committee. Amendment by Sandra Williams 12 added truth in taxation language, and reduced the rollback 13 petition requirement to 7 percent of registered voters. 14 Taxing entities that collect more than $5 million in M & O 15 property taxes. Amendment was presented as, quote, Texas 16 Municipal League compromise, unquote. Only 20 percent of 17 the cities in Texas collect more than $5 million annually. 18 Approximately 50 percent of the counties will be affected by 19 this change. County Judges/Commissioners' Association of 20 Texas did not agree to this amendment. Most problematic is 21 the fact that this is not the final version. House Bill 3 22 can be further amended on the Senate floor or in conference 23 committee to impose further revenue caps, including the 24 3 percent revenue limit currently in H.B. 1006, and they're 25 urging us to contact our senators. 5-9-05 169 1 But here's another one that's really kind of 2 troubling, and I think everybody needs to know about. The 3 memo -- e-mail I got from Roland Pená says, "Bill, the two 4 bills in question are Senate Bill 1232, filed by Senator 5 Fraser, and Senate Bill 1648, filed by Barrientos." And I'd 6 asked him for the equation or value of the sources of the 7 community service programs. This would limit L.C.R.A. from 8 giving grants for various and sundry things that they 9 currently do. The sources of service programs comes from 10 transmission generation water services. 3 percent of the 11 these revenues are used to fund various services. A typical 12 residential customer who uses 1,000 kilowatt hours of 13 electricity a month pays a monthly bill of about $86. If 14 Senator Fraser's bill were to be enacted and they were 15 denied the right to go ahead and fund projects, only about 16 $1.24 of this goes toward L.C.R.A.'s community service 17 programs, and that, in effect, would be what -- what a 18 consumer would -- electric customer would gain back. 19 The information on Senate Bill 1232 and 20 county grants is as follows: Senate Bill 1232 relating to 21 certain powers for river authorities, including L.C.R.A. 22 What it would do is introduce a bill that broadly limits 23 L.C.R.A.'s ability to provide affordable electricity, parks, 24 economic and community development. The author has said -- 25 and author being Senator Fraser -- that they would rewrite 5-9-05 170 1 the bill to eliminate L.C.R.A.'s economic development 2 services, and also to eliminate L.C.R.A.'s community 3 development services, but probably not to prevent the 4 development of new parks, and perhaps further developing of 5 existing parks. 6 Now, here's what L.C.R.A. has done in Kerr 7 County recently. Hunt Volunteer Fire Department 8 construction, 25,000 for a new firehouse. Hill Country Arts 9 Foundation, reservation of -- of a pavilion and improvements 10 to theater, 140,000. Tivy Athletic Booster Club, 11 construction of new concession boots, press box, so forth, 12 12,5. Schreiner University, equipment for video 13 conferencing, 17,9. Kerr County 4-H, skeet and trap, 14 15,000. American Legion Post, renovate the American Legion 15 Community Hall, 25. Ingram Volunteer Fire Department, 16 purchase fire suppression rescue equipment, 5,000. Elm 17 Pass, 18,9 for a brush truck. Schreiner University, lights 18 for the tennis court 16,2. Hunt Volunteer Fire Department, 19 23,4 to complete retrofitting and equipment for replacement 20 fire trucks. Ingram ISD, installation of lighting, crushed 21 marble walking track, $9,872. Elm Pass, another truck, 22 23,156. American Legion Post 583, completing renovations, 23 3,200. Mountain Home Volunteer Fire Department, purchase a 24 new building, firefighting truck, and brush, 24,5. Kerr 25 County, finish restoration of the project Union Church, 5-9-05 171 1 15,000. Ingram Volunteer Fire Department, equipment, 3,171. 2 Schreiner University, power heart automatic defibrillator, 3 2,000 and change. Kerrville City -- City of Kerrville, 4 safety equipment for fire department, 14,000. Texas Arts 5 and Crafts Fair, purchase benches and so forth that are in 6 their facility, 24,8. Kerr County Flat Rock Lake Park, as 7 mentioned earlier, $200,000. These are things that would be 8 eliminated if Senator Fraser's bill gets enacted, so maybe 9 we would like to talk to Senator Fraser. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: I wrote last week and -- 11 before it went to committee, and voiced objection to 12 their -- having their community development, economic 13 development, and parks programs. But they've -- they've 14 done well by us. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, they have. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All across this county. The 17 cities, counties, volunteer fire departments, school 18 functions, the whole nine yards. So, we've -- I think we've 19 gotten more than our fair share, if the truth were known. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't think there's 21 any question about that. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Anyone else have any update on 23 the legislative activity? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess just a question, 25 probably to Buster more than -- 'cause he's probably worked 5-9-05 172 1 with more legislation, I think, than anyone else on the 2 Court. How much impact does individual contact from 3 citizens or commissioners make at this point in the 4 Legislature? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It depends. I've had 6 a legislator -- had that discussion with a legislator not 7 too long ago, and his statement to me was -- I said 8 something like, "Well, if you get a resolution from a 9 Commissioners Court, doesn't that kind of set you up for 10 your decision-making process?" And he said no. But most of 11 them -- most of them pay -- the old rule of thumb is if you 12 get one notice, yeah, maybe. You get two notices, you start 13 paying attention. If you get three, then something's up. 14 The legislator pays attention to the issue that comes before 15 you -- before him or her. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, several or multiple 17 contacts -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- has an impact probably 20 more than just one -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- coming from the Court. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's move on with our 24 agenda, see if we can get these last two items. Item 22, 25 consider and discuss Kerr County Management Discussion and 5-9-05 173 1 Analysis for the '03/'04 audit. Commissioner Letz. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Last year about this 3 time, or shortly after, I think, I made a comment when Tommy 4 was around that I thought Commissioners Court should write 5 this thing where he -- the prior year. And he, lo and 6 behold, handed it to me to write this year. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Be careful what you 8 ask for. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, before I spend a 10 whole lot more time on it, I thought I ought to get it 11 before the Court to look at. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is a GASB issue. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is GASB. GASB 14 requires us to write a management discussion, which is kind 15 of a verbal summary, just kind of our feelings. Not a whole 16 lot of guidance, as I understand what goes in this. I 17 looked at what Tommy did last year; he was kind enough to 18 give me the same tables and charts and copies of -- 19 preliminary copy of the budget and what -- you know, and I 20 kind of kept a lot of what he had in there verbatim, a lot 21 of the definitions of funds and things of that nature. I 22 made some changes, took some things out, added some things, 23 and I really thought my purpose today is to -- hopefully, 24 y'all looked through it, and to give a little bit more 25 guidance as to how much detail we want, where we want 5-9-05 174 1 detail, what we want to talk about, and things of that 2 nature. 3 We can go through it pretty quickly, I 4 believe. The first page is an area that -- financial 5 highlights. There's bullets of various points, most of them 6 financial, but there are a few things that I added this 7 year, one being the March 27th Commissioners Court vote to 8 pass the property tax freeze. That's a pretty significant 9 highlight, in my mind, for the last budget year. Also got 10 to remember we're talking about 2004 budget year -- or 11 2003/2004, which is very -- it gets me really screwed up 12 when I'm trying to figure out this stuff. I've got to go 13 back two years and then try to compare budgets back then as 14 to what we were doing. Also added toward the bottom of that 15 a couple of events related to Kerr County Juvenile Facility. 16 Not a whole lot happened really -- well, a whole lot 17 happened that was real important, but all the details 18 happened after that budget year was over, so I just pretty 19 much put down here the two big events; the date that -- one, 20 that the Court was notified by the Juvenile Board, and when 21 the Court voted to not appropriate funds. 22 The rest of that page is kind of what Tommy 23 wrote, just kind of explaining the audit and GASB a little 24 bit. The next page, most of -- let me put my glasses on. 25 Most of this is really -- is, again, what Tommy had written 5-9-05 175 1 explaining the funds a little bit. Proprietary fund. 2 Basically, that just applies to the juvenile facility last 3 year. And, Tommy, I take it that that will not -- in the 4 2005 audit, that will not be a proprietary fund any more; is 5 that correct? 6 MR. TOMLINSON: That's right. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So this will be the last 8 year it will be treated as a separate fund, or as a 9 proprietary fund, which is a -- for businesslike activity. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, why wouldn't the 11 adult jail be a proprietary fund? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Once we took over 13 operation of it. That's why this year it's going to be -- 14 it's not going to be proprietary. Proprietary is things 15 that we really don't control. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. I see, okay. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Since it was under the 18 Facilities Corporation in 2003/2004, it's kind of an arm's 19 length, the way it was accounted for -- or not accounted 20 for. The way -- it really wasn't part of our budget. 21 That's not really exactly right either, but I think you know 22 what I'm trying to say. Anyway, so I just kind of -- most 23 of that is, again, just general statements. The top of the 24 third page, I took Tommy's language, pulled out the numbers 25 on some of these. I need to go back into the numbers and 5-9-05 176 1 audit, and I'll fill in those if it's -- if everyone thinks 2 that's even worthwhile to do that. It is not easy to come 3 up with these numbers; let me explain that. And if we don't 4 think that it's really worthwhile to keep track and tell the 5 public what our total land and improvements value is net of 6 accumulated depreciation, we can just delete this section. 7 I'm not sure what real value it has for everyone to know how 8 much our roads are worth. I mean, granted, we depreciate -- 9 or appreciate the value of our roads. I think, on 10 equipment, there is a value -- I think Tommy noted it -- in 11 that it shows if all -- if you depreciated all your 12 equipment, that means the useful life of what you have is 13 about -- is gone on that equipment, so you're going to 14 probably have to make some expenditures down the road, so I 15 think that number has a little bit more, you know, as I 16 understand it, importance. But, you know, we can pull these 17 numbers out, so I just left those there. The tables -- 18 these are the current tables for the audit period. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I thought that we were 20 required to list the -- like, the land and improved -- the 21 roads and -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's in the audit. 23 Just -- it's just whether we want to put it in the verbiage. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see what you're 25 saying, okay. Okay. 5-9-05 177 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Really, this is a matter 2 of how much is important for us to -- you know, for our -- I 3 guess I look at this as kind of the -- in any business' 4 annual report, there's a one- to two-page -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Like an explanation. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- explanation of what we 7 did for the year. Next page is more tables. I kept a lot 8 of numbers. I've now gone through and recalculated, kind of 9 explaining the tables here. That first table is changes in 10 assets. The third table is governmental activities and 11 source of revenues. What Tommy did and what I'm trying to 12 do is kind of, where there is a change in numbers, a pretty 13 significant change, try to highlight those changes. That's 14 about it. Kind of the standard operations, you know, I 15 didn't really highlight that. The next two pages are 16 probably really where I have the most questions and 17 discussion, on outstanding debt. That I've pretty much 18 taken care of, I think. Table 5 is a table of debt. When 19 we get into the -- the area of governmental funds, there's a 20 whole lot of X's. I guess, how much description do we want 21 to -- do you want me to go through looking at our funds and 22 describing what we did? 23 Everything up till now is -- is a lot more -- 24 is kind of standard boilerplate, pulling numbers out. Here 25 we start, you know, highlighting what was important on those 5-9-05 178 1 funds for the year. And the next section below that is 2 proprietary funds, which is, again, the Hill Country 3 Juvenile Detention Facility. In that area, I have changed 4 that quite a bit. This is all new language. And the reason 5 I did that was because I knew what was getting ready to 6 happen in the next budget year, and I attempted to -- I hope 7 I did it correctly -- spell out the ownership and who was 8 operating what, and what was going on a little bit at the 9 detention facility. Because in the prior year, it really 10 was just kind of -- it wasn't -- didn't have as much of an 11 impact. I won't say it wasn't as important, but it starts 12 becoming a lot more critical as to that, and I think it is a 13 real budget highlight that needs to have some time spent on 14 it, probably in this year and the next year's discussion. 15 Because we really can't go into, at this point, what we did 16 under this budget year, but how we got there I think is an 17 issue. 18 In how much detail do we want to try to 19 explain that? You know, that's a question for the Court, 20 because we've talked a lot about doing audits out there. 21 We've talked about doing different things that caused a 22 problem; it was state funding cuts or changes, you know. My 23 personal feeling is, the taxpayers deserve an explanation by 24 this Court as to what happened, but I'm not real sure how to 25 do that, because we haven't done a whole lot of 5-9-05 179 1 investigation, and what we have are discrepancies, 2 basically. We have the State saying the funding wasn't cut. 3 We have the Juvenile Facilities Corporation -- Juvenile 4 Board saying that things were done -- changed, and I don't 5 know how we reduce all that to, you know, the -- the summary 6 format that is factual, which is what I think our obligation 7 is under that. So, I'm going to toss that one out. 8 And then -- well, the next one, budgetary 9 highlights, I'll write that. I'll probably go through our 10 budget and look where we had to make changes and things. 11 I'm thinking of adding it this year. It was -- I believe 12 that that was the end of kind of our salary adjustments that 13 happened in 2004. Might be a little bit -- yeah, I believe 14 it was done that year. Might have been a little bit this 15 year with the Sheriff's Department again. But I think that 16 last year and this year kind of finished up really looking 17 at all of our salary schedules and making a lot of 18 adjustments on salaries, and I think that's a pretty 19 significant impact on our budget. Those are the main -- the 20 last category is just a summary of the budget that we 21 adopted at the end of the year. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Commissioner, what is 23 the purpose -- maybe I'll direct this either to you or to 24 Tommy. What is the purpose of this letter? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The purpose of this, as I 5-9-05 180 1 understand it -- one, it's a requirement of GASB that we put 2 something in the annual audit. This is the first thing -- 3 when you open our annual audit by Pressler Thompson, this 4 will be the first thing you look at. I looked at it as a -- 5 an attempt, anyway, for the Court to summarize to the public 6 and the taxpayers as to what we did in that budget year. 7 And, you know, I think it's more than just a -- a piece of 8 paper we stick in the audit. We can meet the requirements 9 of the law by putting a one-page summary, "Everything looks 10 good in Kerr County," pass an order and adopt it. But I 11 think that we -- I think we owe the public more of an 12 obligation to try to really look at it and see where we're 13 going, the direction on the financial side. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: With respect, then, 15 to the Juvenile Detention Facility, if I understand what 16 you're saying correctly, and correct me if I don't, in 17 trying to put together these budgetary highlights as it 18 applies to that facility and our acquisition of that 19 facility, aside from the fact that we did it and it is now 20 our facility, there remain more questions unanswered than 21 there are thus far affirmative answers to put in here, or 22 statements to put in here. So, would it be your sense that 23 with respect to the Juvenile Detention Facility, that we 24 highlight certain questions that, in our minds, still -- or 25 maybe even in the minds of taxpayers, still have not -- 5-9-05 181 1 there still hasn't been satisfactory or sufficient light 2 shed on these questions to arrive at any ironclad 3 determination? Is that what I'm hearing from you? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that we need 5 to -- I don't think what I've said in here is sufficient. 6 All it basically says is that, for some unknown reason, 7 other than -- well, it says funding -- I guess for a reason, 8 in September we received a notice from the Hill Country 9 Facilities Corporation that they weren't going to make bond 10 payments, and then shortly after that we took action and 11 said we're not either. Well, I think -- I don't think 12 that's enough of an explanation as to what was about to 13 happen out there that ended up costing, the next budget 14 year, the taxpayers a whole bunch of money. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I don't think -- I 17 don't want to go into -- I mean, I think it's next year's 18 discussion that gets into a lot of, you know, hurting our 19 bond rating and all that type of stuff, 'cause that was -- a 20 lot of that really happened after this budget year was over. 21 I think, at this point, it -- maybe questions is the way to 22 go, and then try to answer them in our next one, 'cause 23 we're still looking at it. You know, if I was -- I look at 24 this as being akin to a business, and if a business or any 25 corporation, in their annual report, says, "Oh, by the way, 5-9-05 182 1 we decided not to pay our debt," you know, and then left the 2 discussion, I think the shareholders, which in our case are 3 the tax holders, would be irate. I think that we have an 4 obligation to explain why that -- why we didn't do this, and 5 I don't know that I have the information to explain it. And 6 I don't need -- we don't need to go into great detail on 7 this. I mean, I'm not talking about pages; I'm talking -- 8 this whole discussion, to me, should be half a page long at 9 most. But I think that something needs to be said as to 10 what happened, and I -- and I'm at a loss to know how to say 11 that. Tommy? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There's a hand waving 13 back there. 14 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, I would just like to 15 add a little bit to your first question, Commissioner, about 16 why this is in the report. Well, GASB originated from the 17 Securities Exchange Commission, and their thought was that 18 they -- they wanted statements or -- financial statements or 19 audited financial statements of municipalities to look just 20 like the private sector. So, for that reason, they -- in 21 the private sector, they have the board of directors of a 22 corporation write an analysis of -- of the numbers just like 23 this. And the idea behind it is that, from a reader's 24 standpoint of -- of -- or, say, an investor's standpoint of 25 -- of someone investing in the corporation that looks at 5-9-05 183 1 this statement, they want to -- they want to feel that -- 2 that the board of directors or, in our case, the 3 Commissioners Court understands the numbers well enough to 4 write an analysis of what happened. So, it's assurance to 5 the reader that -- that management really does understand 6 what went on, and so -- and which makes sense. I mean, it 7 makes sense to me as -- or it would as an investor. So, 8 that's the history of why, you know, this is a requirement 9 of GASB. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, let's follow up 11 on what you just said, and focus -- focus that on the 12 Juvenile Detention Facility. I'm not to my question yet. 13 And, in light of what Commissioner Letz is trying to 14 accomplish here with this letter, the facts, as 15 Commissioners Court knows them, are sparse. What we know is 16 we got a letter from the Juvenile Probation Board with some 17 declaration of nonappropriation in terms of meeting its 18 debt. We know that that resulted in some actions that the 19 Court subsequently took that resulted -- end result being 20 that we purchased the facility at a discounted amount from 21 the bondholders, and we know that we issued debt to cover 22 that purchase. Okay. There are three -- those are three 23 things we know. What we don't know definitively is, how did 24 we get in that pickle? Now, if that -- if that's a 25 reasonable statement, that there's more about it that we 5-9-05 184 1 don't know than there is that we do know, how do we address 2 that? 3 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, I don't -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Do we not know what the 5 revenues were? 6 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah, that's in the numbers. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's in there. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Do we not know what the 9 expenses were? 10 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah, we know. I mean -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Month-by-month? 12 MR. TOMLINSON: There's -- the audit work -- 13 field work was done on the facility. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: So -- so the numbers are in 16 the body -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're in here. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: -- of the report. I don't 20 think we -- I don't think, as -- as you could use the 21 crystal ball approach in that you -- you shouldn't put 22 anything in there that you're not absolutely certain of, 23 because that's after the fact, and what -- what you may 24 think is reality today may not be, in fact, reality 25 tomorrow. And -- 5-9-05 185 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand that. 2 Go ahead. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Let me read what was 4 written in last year's that we voted on and approved. The 5 language is, "Because of the increase in demand for 6 services, the Kerr County Juvenile Board approved an 7 addition to the facility to increase capacity to 75 beds." 8 And then, "Funding for this project was sale of 9 $5.14 million in lease revenue bonds." That's all it says. 10 So, I read this as saying in 2004, okay, we expanded the 11 facility because the demand was up, and we went from that to 12 going bankrupt. So, I mean, I think that there is more of 13 an explanation -- somehow, we need to say something. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let me be the 15 devil's advocate for a minute. In referring back to 16 comments about the private sector, a corporation has to 17 write a report like this; it's an S.E.C. requirement. And I 18 think the attitude about it is, "There's nobody going to 19 read this, so let's not spend a lot of effort and money 20 putting it together," and I -- I'm sure that's wrong. I'm 21 sure that analysts -- stock analysts and others do read it. 22 Who's our -- it's kind of following on to what Bill asked. 23 Who's our audience on this? Who are we -- who are we 24 expecting is going to read it? And then what message -- do 25 we want to try to give them confidence in the numbers? Do 5-9-05 186 1 we want to -- what's our objective here? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think there's one 3 basic -- 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Aside from just 5 meeting the requirements. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There's one basic 7 difference, Commissioner. First of all, you know, 8 corporations -- the management letter regarding the 9 corporate -- a corporation's operations and its profit or 10 loss and so forth, that deals with -- that deals with 11 bondholders' expectations or stockholders' expectations and 12 what they might get at the end of the year in dividends and 13 so forth. The difference, as I see it, of course, is that, 14 first of all, these were revenue bonds that were not met, 15 and secondly, not the taxpayers' money, and there's a 16 different obligation in terms of -- of reporting that out 17 and trying to -- trying to make some sense of it. And I 18 guess where I'm coming down asking questions and looking for 19 guidance, because Jon and I have talked about this and how 20 it applies, how do we, as Commissioners Court, putting a 21 management letter together that goes in the audit, permanent 22 public record, how do we -- or do we advise what took place 23 in that year from the time that revenue bonds of $5 million 24 were floated because business was really good, and between 25 that time and the next time when the County Judge, on behalf 5-9-05 187 1 of the Juvenile Board, said, "We can't make our debt 2 service." That's a big question mark. What happened in a 3 12- or 14-month span? Now, the question is, how is that 4 addressed? I don't know the answer, but what I do know is 5 that there are innumerable questions regarding the efficacy 6 of management and its neglect, denial, or otherwise with 7 respect to this facility. And those things could have been 8 -- might have been or may yet be ferreted out if we were to 9 go to an independent audit. I also know that the audit firm 10 that does the County's annual audit didn't take any great 11 pleasure in wanting to pick up this tar baby. The question 12 is, how do you want to address it? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, Commissioner, I think 14 the numbers are there as to what happened. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I know. No -- 16 JUDGE TINLEY: The numbers are there that 17 revenues in "X" month of the previous year were 18 such-and-such, and the current month were whatever lesser 19 sum they are. And the numbers are certainly there to speak 20 for themselves, and you can track those numbers so as to 21 clearly indicate the basis for the nonappropriation. Now -- 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. Things went 23 south, Judge. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, sure. Absolutely. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But doesn't that pose 5-9-05 188 1 a question mark in your mind, why? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I suppose there's any 3 sort of questions that can be raised about any particular 4 number that's in there. Why isn't it more? Why isn't it 5 less? Or how could it have been more? How could it have 6 been less? But I think what the Auditor is telling us is, 7 what we're -- what we're putting forth here is an abstractly 8 correct statement. And I suppose if you want to get into a 9 whole bunch of what-ifs, you can do that, but that's not 10 generally how auditors and other bean-counters work. They 11 -- they work in black and white. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think -- 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Not in the gray. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But -- okay. And I 15 agree, and I think that's why I said it needs to be facts in 16 here. And the numbers do speak for -- but why did revenues 17 drop so much? That's the question. I mean, and it was 18 because -- and I've heard lots of different answers, and I 19 think that that -- I mean, I don't -- like I say, I don't 20 want to spend a whole lot of time on this, but who the 21 audience is, I think this is our opportunity to explain to 22 the public, which to me is the taxpayers, and also to the 23 bond rating companies and all the other stuff as to this is 24 what happened out there. This is what we think happened. 25 'Cause we took a hit on this, too, financially in our 5-9-05 189 1 ratings. You know, not as bad as we thought it was going to 2 be initially, but this is the people -- that type of people 3 will read this, and I think we need to have -- I don't think 4 we can just gloss over it. I think that's a disservice. I 5 think it needs to be addressed in minimum detail. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think I partially 7 answered my question. The representative from Taxpayers' 8 Watch was with us this morning, and at the break she asked 9 me, did I think that she'd learn anything if she came back 10 for this discussion? And I apparently erroneously told her, 11 "No, it's just boilerplate stuff." So, in answer to my 12 question, who's going to read this? Everyone. There's one 13 or two dozen, however many of them there are. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not sure this helped 15 me a whole lot. It gave me another week to bide time to 16 think about what I'm going to write. Let me make a stab at 17 it. I will write a very -- I say that -- no more than half 18 a page on this as to -- from talking probably with the three 19 over here that were more involved than I was in the details, 20 'cause they've done -- Commissioners 1 and 2 both went to 21 Austin and visited with the -- whoever y'all visited with, 22 whatever the state agency is, and being on the board, and 23 see if we can put down something that, you know, answers 24 some of the questions, even vague as it may be. And -- and 25 maybe that's the best way to handle it, is pretty vague. 5-9-05 190 1 And maybe point out to Pressler Thompson that, you know, 2 we're not real sure what happened, and we're not -- you 3 know, toss it back in their lap. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I think that's the bottom line 5 right now. You know, I don't know whether somebody forgot 6 to pay their bill, didn't pay their bill, whether their bill 7 was sent out as too low, whether it was because the 8 reimbursement rates were -- were lower, increased, whether 9 they were reclassified. There's all sorts of myriad of 10 things that -- and if we get into stating things as facts, I 11 think you're opening Pandora's box where you got to state 12 every single variable that may have come into play. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think -- I -- you 14 know, I'll go back to a business thing. You have to -- if a 15 major portion of a business -- if, you know, Exxon Refinery 16 goes belly-up, I think Exxon has an obligation to the 17 shareholders to explain why Exxon Refinery went belly-up 18 this year. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: I think they're obligated to 20 say revenues went south and expenses went north, and as a 21 result, we closed this refinery. And that's the bottom line 22 result. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: You're talking about 25 significant financial events during the '03/'04. I did not 5-9-05 191 1 note in here any revenues to the initiation of an attempt to 2 recover -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: $400,000. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: -- $400,000. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I thought of that while 6 we were in here. Yeah, that needs to be added. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Back to your juvenile 8 thing, I don't see it any other way, Jon, than to -- Bill 9 made a little outline early in his talk about, you know, at 10 such-and-such point, the corporation decided they couldn't 11 pay their bills and passed it on to the County, and the 12 County said no. I mean, that's the only thing you can say, 13 because there is no definitive statements to make in 14 between. There is no reasons. We've fired some pretty good 15 shots across the bow trying to get those answers, and 16 they're not forthcoming. I don't know if there is such a 17 thing, to be honest with you. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, we've got the numbers. 19 You can track the numbers, and when you get to the point in 20 -- in late August, early September where the 21 nonappropriation occurred, we know what the numbers were 22 then. They were available to the Juvenile Board. Based on 23 that, they gave notice of nonappropriation, and -- and the 24 dominoes started falling. Tommy? 25 MR. TOMLINSON: I might give you one 5-9-05 192 1 suggestion, Commissioner. On -- on the T.J.P.'s web site, 2 after you get into it, there -- it lists all the juvenile 3 facilities in the state, and it tells you what -- what the 4 capacity is for each one for a given period. And along with 5 it, it tells you how -- what percent of that capacity they 6 use. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What percent of what? 8 MR. TOMLINSON: It'll tell -- on their web 9 site, it gives you a -- a detailed breakdown of each 10 facility in the state, every one of them, and -- and it 11 tells you when the facility was built, what kind of money 12 they used, if it was state money or -- or bond money. It 13 will tell you how many beds are available, and it will tell 14 you how many -- how many -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Occupancy rate. 16 MR. TOMLINSON: How many residents were there 17 for the year. And I did a cursory review of that 18 information about, oh, probably six or eight months ago, and 19 I think if you'll get into the detail, it will show you that 20 state average that the -- that the percentage of 21 occupancy-to-capacity statewide in the -- for '03/'04 was 22 about 45 percent. There -- there are some facilities in the 23 state, according to T.J.P.'s web site -- I mean, it's on 24 their web site -- that had less than 40 percent occupancy. 25 And it tells you what -- it tells you what each facility 5-9-05 193 1 charges per day, the minimum and the maximum. And, so, I 2 mean, there's a lot of information about -- about all the 3 facilities in the state, whether it be a -- a secure 4 facility or -- or a boot camp or whatever it is. It'll tell 5 you all that. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did you say the 7 average was about 45 percent? 8 MR. TOMLINSON: That's what I remember. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That really makes me 10 feel good about owning that thing out there, I can tell you. 11 That's really exciting. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's not where we 13 are. 14 MR. TOMLINSON: And, I mean, that -- and 15 about -- and that's about what our average was in -- during 16 that time period. And so that -- I'm just suggesting that 17 that might be a place to get some general information -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: General trends. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: -- of trends about -- about 20 juvenile facilities in the state of Texas for that year. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. Well, this 22 will be back at our next meeting to hopefully approve. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Anyone that has any 25 comments or anything, like the insurance lawsuit litigation 5-9-05 194 1 that's pending, anything, you know, to be highlighted, just 2 pass it on. 'Cause I -- you know -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: The only general guidance I 4 would suggest is, if something was out of trend, either up 5 or down, significantly -- you know, I can't tell you. 6 There's the man who can tell you better than I could what's 7 out of trend. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We don't have much -- it 9 was a -- you know, somewhat of a boring year, it looks like. 10 I mean, other than this one incident, we were kind of -- it 11 was an in-between year. We've done a lot of things on 12 the -- the communications stuff was done and the renovations 13 to the buildings was done, and bonds failed, and, you know, 14 we just kind of went through last year. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Jon, I'm really 16 impressed. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I am too. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is good for an 19 old farm boy from Comfort. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm amazed he's 21 willing to do it. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Me too. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think we ought to 24 put a little something extra in his paycheck this month. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do too. 5-9-05 195 1 MR. TOMLINSON: I have -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: We can honor him with a 3 permanent appointment for the management analysis of the 4 audit for every year. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think he got it by 6 default. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll keep my mouth shut 8 in future years. 9 MR. TOMLINSON: He has it because I have a 10 good memory. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's go on to our 13 2 o'clock reports from department heads. Information 14 Technology. We'll start with you, Mr. Trolinger. 15 MR. TROLINGER: Good afternoon. I have a 16 rehash of my April report, since I figured that's about as 17 up-to-date, seeing as we're only in the -- sorry -- we're 18 only in the first week of the month. And to summarize what 19 we've done Information Technology-wise, I want to rehash the 20 first paragraph; I'm going to read that one and let the rest 21 stand. The Sheriff saved us $33,100 this past month by -- 22 by providing us with computers that were seized during a 23 raid on the Joker's Wild. He agreed to remove those 24 computers and have them -- have me reuse them out of game 25 consoles, and still got $200, I believe it was, for game 5-9-05 196 1 consoles from a reseller. So, I wanted to rehash that. I 2 thought that was worth repeating. 3 My second sheet is a breakdown of the budget 4 items for the Information Technology Department, both the 5 I.T. and the Nondepartmental budget, and also a section with 6 the conversion coming up for J.P. 4. Justice of the Peace 4 7 has received a grant from the D.P.S. to convert and come 8 onto Software Group for no cost to the County for the first 9 year. And the box at the bottom right of each one of those 10 numbers is the total remaining unspent money as of today's 11 date from those particular items. And my last page, I 12 thought you'd be interested in a typical Monday for me, how 13 my time's spent. Trying to -- trying to give you an idea 14 how the -- what the load is, what the real burden is for 15 Information Technology, and point you in the direction where 16 I want to go for next year, to convert the part-time 17 contractor to a full-time, possibly as a heads-up. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What is this very 19 first issue, the TLETS issue? What -- what did you have to 20 do there? That was in -- 21 MR. TROLINGER: I had to log into Dispatch's 22 computer and make some changes to it. Their text was 23 scrambled up. There had been a log-in problem with logging 24 in one of the dispatchers. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Your place? 5-9-05 197 1 MR. TROLINGER: Called me directly. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not 9-1-1, but Rusty? 3 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, thank you. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I notice you've got 6 your work day going from 12:09 to 1 a.m. to 11 p.m. That's 7 almost 23 hours a day. What is your typical work day? 8 MR. TROLINGER: I sleep -- I sleep in between 9 the calls and hitting the buttons to do the database 10 maintenance. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How many hours of the 12 month are you putting in? 13 MR. TROLINGER: My wife has been keeping 14 track of it. 290 hours, including home and -- 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I guess we're paying 16 you for 160, right? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: 175, roughly. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 175. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, that makes it all 20 right, then. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's okay. Then 22 you got that other 15 hours. 23 MR. TROLINGER: And it seems to be holding 24 true. The basic maintenance, the basic -- how many 25 emergency calls we get per day, just what has to be done, 5-9-05 198 1 it's just -- it's not going to level out. It's not going to 2 change. It's the way it is, and in order to provide y'all 3 with a technology that can provide cost savings, I want to 4 be able to do all those things right now. And you can -- 5 you can petty much see that that's just my work ethic; that 6 I just work to get everything done that needs to be done. 7 But the County does need some help, information 8 technology-wise. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm not going to ask 10 you, John, based on what you say and what you know today, if 11 you knew when you took the job what you know today, would 12 you have taken the job. I'm not going to ask you that 13 question. What I am going to ask you is, how many more 14 people do we need like you to get this job done so that you 15 don't have to work around the clock? 16 MR. TROLINGER: For next year, we need an 17 additional full-time, I believe. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What is -- how is it 19 working out with Gazelle? 20 MR. TROLINGER: It's good. It's taken the 21 desktop, the little computers, where they've got a technical 22 problem that could take me hours, he's got an expert over 23 there that can fix that problem for us very quickly, in a 24 few minutes typically. It's worked out really well. It's 25 where I've got an expert across the river there that can 5-9-05 199 1 come in and fix a particular problem, instead of me trying 2 to research and dig through it. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How many times a week are 4 you -- do you have to call Gazelle to come down? 5 MR. TROLINGER: On-site? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On-site or over there, 7 either way. If we take something there. 8 MR. TROLINGER: I've been measuring it by 9 hours, but 14 hours of their time total last month, April. 10 But I'd have to say I have contact with them every other 11 day, three times a week average. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 13 MR. TROLINGER: But the advantage of the 14 contractor right now is that they're part-time. I can call 15 them any time I need them, so it's worked out really well in 16 that respect. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: With the -- the budget 18 coming up, do you see any huge expenditures coming up in the 19 technology area, other than needing another person? I mean, 20 are we -- 21 MR. TROLINGER: Well, as a heads-up, I do 22 have some contingency numbers if -- if our server, which the 23 Sheriff's Office -- the whole county basically runs off of 24 one computer, or a high-end computer, and if it fails, at 25 this point, we basically have to replace it, and it is a -- 5-9-05 200 1 it's a fairly big number. For me -- relative to me, it's 2 $52,000, I believe, for the hardware and software if we have 3 to replace that one box, versus if we went to a newer, more 4 modern system with Software Group, where there are many 5 small boxes. That's what I'm looking at right now. So I 6 can't give you a solid projection or a recommendation right 7 now, but the -- probably, the -- The Software Group is going 8 to be the number one -- the number one as far as -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are they going to -- 10 MR. TROLINGER: -- expenditure. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are they going to get 12 more and more expensive every year? I mean, I know it seems 13 like every year they add something which makes -- oh, yeah, 14 this is another bell and whistle that makes things 15 wonderful. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: John, I promise you, I haven't 17 been talking to these guys. I promise, I haven't. 18 MR. TROLINGER: Software does -- and I 19 believe every three to five -- three to four years, that 20 they increase their -- their maintenance cost about 21 10 percent, and I believe that's coming up this next year. 22 And I've given the department heads a -- a sheet, basically 23 a one-page sheet that estimates that cost. And the Sheriff 24 is laughing at me, because his -- he had some unexpected 25 numbers. Unfortunately, they hadn't -- hadn't been taken 5-9-05 201 1 care of in the past, maintenance-wise. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He told me. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What about the Odyssey? 4 MR. TROLINGER: The Odyssey package replaces 5 the one single server with many little boxes, and one box 6 doesn't cost $50,000 to replace; it costs $3,000 if it 7 breaks. Or if we need to expand, it costs $3,000, $4,000 8 for another box. It's more economical in the long run, and 9 it's new technology. It makes everything, instead of 10 looking like a text screen, into a web page, is the 11 difference. User-friendliness. And so far, the courts, at 12 least everybody that's reviewed it, and tax, which is Orion, 13 like it a lot. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The average cost -- 15 MR. TROLINGER: In fact, they say they need 16 it. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What's the estimated 18 cost? 19 MR. TROLINGER: Of -- to do the -- 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: To convert over to 21 Odyssey for the county. 22 MR. TROLINGER: It's a very big number. 23 It's, um -- 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: $800,000. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Littles and great bigs 5-9-05 202 1 and -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And really bigs. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And really bigs. 4 MR. TROLINGER: That's the big number. And 5 I'm still -- I'm not at the point where I can say this is 6 the way to go. We're still in the -- can we get the 7 department heads excited about it? This is -- do they need 8 this? Does it improve productivity? Does it replace the 9 hardware and reduce our vulnerability to having a work 10 stoppage county-wide? You know, I'm still looking at that 11 to give you a recommendation. I don't have that yet. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How long before we will 13 likely need to make that decision? 14 MR. TROLINGER: June 1st, I'm hoping to have 15 the -- (Laughter.) June 1st, I'm hoping to have the 16 recommendation for you. That's my target. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I was looking for 2007, 18 2008. I wasn't expecting next month. 19 MR. TROLINGER: No grass growing under my 20 feet. I want to be able to give you that recommendation by 21 June 1st. I'll know -- I'll know whether or not that -- 22 that it's doable or usable this next year. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: We told him to go to work. He 24 believed us. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Does The Software Group 5-9-05 203 1 do lease packages? 2 MR. TROLINGER: No, they do not. But I've 3 talked to Tommy, and he's explained lease-purchase -- is 4 that correct? A lease-purchase agreement that would spread 5 that out over five years. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: As high as -- you know, 7 it almost seems that, with the technology, a lease situation 8 may just become, you know, good for the county, rather than 9 buying the stuff as we -- things change. Technology 10 changes. 11 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, the -- what he's 12 talking about is -- would qualify for the lease-purchase 13 arrangement, and we could sell to any leasing -- leasing 14 company, just like -- we just finished doing that for Road 15 and Bridge, and we could do the same thing for -- for what 16 -- for what John's talking about. And -- and for a big 17 price tag, that makes sense, because one of the side effects 18 of what he's looking at is -- is the user out there in the 19 community, talking about the taxpayer, being able to have 20 more online access to -- to records in the county, and -- 21 you know, like taxes. We're talking about real estate 22 people, the banks, attorneys, anybody that has anything to 23 do with a real estate transaction. 24 MR. TROLINGER: Title companies. 25 MR. TOMLINSON: Title companies. So, by 5-9-05 204 1 doing what he's looking into, we -- we can really, really do 2 something good for -- for the community. And so, in my 3 mind, spreading out the cost over, you know, five or six 4 years, what we're doing actually is -- is pushing the cost 5 of -- of the use of that product to -- to new taxpayers, you 6 know, five years in the future. So, the tax -- the current 7 taxpayers aren't actually footing the burden for the whole 8 project. So, for that reason, it makes sense to me to do a 9 lease-purchase. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess I'll wait till 11 next month. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 13 MR. TROLINGER: It's really the public -- and 14 Tommy's absolutely right; it's really the public's benefit 15 that I was relying heavily on, whether or not this project's 16 needed this year, whether or not it's good for the taxpayers 17 to be able to get that data out there. Because it takes 18 quite a while to gear that up and go through the process of 19 -- you know, if we elected to do this in June, it would 20 probably be next June before it really happened. The -- 21 Gillespie County's doing exactly this right now, where 22 they're in -- they've purchased last budget year this -- 23 this package, and, you know, it's just now being installed 24 this month. I'm watching that very closely also. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Jon, I'm very 5-9-05 205 1 impressed with the amount of accomplishments you've had 2 since you've been here. It's kind of one of those deals 3 where you don't know what you're missing until you see the 4 change that can happen. And I'm impressed at the cost 5 savings that you've been able to achieve, too. I think the 6 next big breakthrough is helping us improve productivity, 7 getting machines to do work that people do. I know you know 8 how to do that, and hope you can find time in your 9 23-hour-a-day work schedule. But, thanks. 10 MR. TROLINGER: You're welcome. I enjoy 11 doing it. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got a question. 13 I'd like to go back to this morning's conversation, if I 14 could, about the broadband and all. I want to know -- don't 15 tell me how much Rusty's saving us or what he's doing or 16 what Road and Bridge is doing. I want to know how much does 17 it cost? A dollar and cent figure is all I'm looking for. 18 How much is it going to cost the County to go from Point A 19 to Point B? 20 MR. TROLINGER: Okay. For the courthouse, it 21 will be break-even for this year, through this budget year. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 23 MR. TROLINGER: For the jail, it will cost 24 $996. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, thank you. 5-9-05 206 1 Don't say any more. Thank you. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Trolinger. We 3 -- we appreciate your efforts. 4 MR. TROLINGER: You're welcome. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move on to Road and 6 Bridge. 7 (Discussion off the record.) 8 MR. ODOM: We put down what we thought the 9 Court may wish to know. This is our first time. I wrote 10 this down into four items. First one was road projects. 11 Sealcoat is underway now. Our objective was to do dirt 12 roads or the gravel roads first with our new equipment, so 13 everyone would be comfortable and get used to it, get our 14 heels down, get the bugs out of this equipment, and made 15 sense before we get to more populated areas until we get 16 into our sealcoat program, preventive maintenance. So far, 17 we've completed Clark. We've completed the portions of Fall 18 Creek that were reconstructed. Our intent is to finish that 19 up either -- maybe Friday, so -- it depends. If not, it 20 will be next week; we'll complete that single seal on that 21 sealcoated part -- portion, and we'll be through with Fall 22 Creek. And Lane has been completed out there. We've had a 23 variety of roads, the width, different problems to look at, 24 trying to get our yields down. It looks promising that this 25 equipment has given us pretty good yields, and I'm -- I'm 5-9-05 207 1 encouraged as I get into this year here, and then we'll have 2 a little bit more data. May not help so much into the 3 budget I've got; we've got it figured in there, but I think 4 our yields are going to be really good and be cost-effective 5 over the long run. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Quick comment, just to 7 the rest of the Court, and it's on Lane, which is a road out 8 off Lane Valley. It's quite amazing what Leonard's people 9 did there. They took -- and it's all due to their -- 10 basically, their new equipment that we have -- that we got 11 them the past few years. They went in, took creek gravel -- 12 hauled in a bunch of creek gravel, put it on the road, took 13 a vibrating roller and made it into base in the road, and 14 bladed -- bladed it back and forth until they made it into 15 base material, and they've gone over it, sealcoated it. 16 It's the darndest thing you you've ever seen, one of the 17 nicest roads probably in the county, just using creek 18 gravel, and it's because of the equipment that we bought 19 that enabled them to turn creek gravel into good roads. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That thing is probably 21 stable, stable, stable. 22 MR. ODOM: It is very, very stable. It was 23 wet, and when it sets up, it sets up like concrete. And 24 with that vibratory that we got last year, it just helps, 25 and that big Cat roller. It really -- it sets up. It's a 5-9-05 208 1 good roller. I just went over it before I came here; that's 2 where I came from, to look at it, and -- and the yields -- 3 the mat looks good. Our yields are really -- you know, 4 we're talking about 16.5. We're talking about 17.2 yields. 5 And -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't know what that 7 means. 8 MR. ODOM: Well, it just -- it's good. It's 9 really good. And -- and the oil and everything. So, you 10 know, it's very encouraging. We still have some more to 11 complete, and we'll be working -- Indian Creek is one that 12 we'll try to knock out over the space of the next few weeks, 13 and some others. We're at Eugene tomorrow over there, and 14 then go to Wiedenfeld, and -- and then to Mosty. Over there 15 in that portion haven't been done. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd like to also 17 thank Leonard and express some compliments about the work 18 they did on Fall Creek. When we originally talked about the 19 reconstruction of the area of Fall Creek where they're 20 working now, I think Leonard put into Special Projects the 21 amount of money that was going to be necessary to -- 22 essentially to do that project, because we had a lot of 23 roller-coaster effect to take out, and some real bad curves. 24 His people did that, and didn't have to spend that money 25 on -- on contract hire, for the most part, and I appreciate 5-9-05 209 1 the work you've done. 2 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. Well, thank y'all, and 3 I'll pass that on to the men. I told them, and I've had 4 some compliments, and -- 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Absolutely. 6 MR. ODOM: -- and I don't take it. It's the 7 men; they did the work, and I pass it on to them. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Please pass it on. 9 MR. ODOM: I will. On the budget, our 10 budget's looking pretty good, with the exception of fuel. 11 We increased this line item this last budget year. It was a 12 guess. I guessed that fuel would come back down into the 13 $35, $37 range. My guess was not good. I wish the 14 President -- well, I hope they -- I think over time he'll 15 stabilize things, but it was not enough. We estimate we 16 will need at least $32,000. We're running every 10 days, 17 about $5,000 worth of fuel. That's double our amount. It's 18 just the cost of it. It's not that it's there; it's just 19 the cost of it's doubled. And we have had meetings that we 20 have weekly; every Monday we go over this again, and I've 21 reiterated the fact as to hold this down. We've stabilized. 22 We're not -- we're still holding at the $5,000, and there's 23 not a whole lot I can do, other than to take money out of 24 Contract Fees or Contingencies, which I had increases in 25 petroleum. Sealcoat went from .84 to .94, and $1.60 a ton 5-9-05 210 1 for material, which covered the transportation costs for the 2 materials, so we've taken some hits, something that I could 3 not estimate. 4 I mean, I've looked at -- over the last 14 5 years, we've been pretty good. We're still right on -- what 6 we got from Tommy was at 42 percent overall, so we're -- 7 we're still hanging in there. Of course, it's kiltered a 8 little bit, because we've got our rock already stockpiled 9 and delivered, and then we'll start shooting this out as we 10 go along. Probably the middle of June, we'll pick up for 11 preventive maintenance and start shooting again, and use 12 money up. But we think, budget-wise, we're in pretty good 13 shape. Just fuel, and we will add that into the next -- 14 this budget coming up; we're adding that now to that price, 15 the cost of -- increase in aggregate and emulsion. I'm 16 adding that. But it looks like our budget will be about 17 $100,000 more than last year, what we talked about, and that 18 has to do with fuel and material, basically. We -- you 19 know, we didn't have that money last year; we said we could 20 do it in capital outlays and make it work, so we've 21 basically got a flat budget, is what I'm looking at right 22 now. We're not increasing any more, other than that 23 80-some-odd thousand for that equipment that Tommy was 24 talking about, for when we took the municipal loan. 25 Personnel. All our employees just completed the advanced 5-9-05 211 1 Road Scholar Program. We're the only department in the 2 state of Texas that have done so. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Congratulations. 4 MR. ODOM: Thank you. All our positions are 5 filled, and everyone is well and working at this time. We 6 did have another workman claim -- workmen's comp claim this 7 past month. I would like to ask the Court to consider 8 addressing the issue of worker's comp claims, and what 9 number of claims they might consider an excessive number for 10 a single employee. I -- but that is something I -- I sure 11 think the Court should consider, and the personnel could 12 give me some direction there. Office projects, even though 13 we have daily inquiries about floodplain and subdivision 14 regulations, we currently only have a few that have actually 15 made applications, and I've listed those on the second page 16 there. Commissioner Letz requested that we keep a file on 17 inquiries through the office on subdivision and floodplain, 18 with the volume of calls that we do get on a daily basis. 19 It is difficult to make notes and then to transfer them to a 20 computer file, but we will attempt to do so. The attached 21 list is the recent contacts we've compiled. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Let me -- Len, before you 23 leave that, let me just -- the Court may think it's a stupid 24 idea for all I know, but I thought it would be helpful, for 25 me anyway, and maybe for the Court to keep track of where 5-9-05 212 1 these are going; one, for hopefully tracking illegal 2 subdivisions, because if they kind of call, you have an idea 3 that something's probably -- or will be happening in this 4 area, and most of those familiar with our precincts know 5 where these are. Another thing is to kind of look at 6 trends, where activities are going on, what's happened 7 where, things of that nature. And, granted, the majority of 8 them may not develop into a full permit or subdivision plat, 9 but I thought it would be, you know, interesting to track 10 those just to see really what's going on in those two areas, 11 which is different than the rest of the -- I guess the 12 traditional Road and Bridge function, but it does take time 13 to keep track of. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I got to tell you, I 15 don't see the interest in doing that. I just -- you know, 16 it's not information that I need, I don't think. And I 17 think that I could probably call Truby up and say, "Hey, 18 Truby, what's the hot topic this week?" And she could 19 probably tell me, without documenting phone calls and that 20 kind of thing. It's just -- it just doesn't interest me. I 21 mean, I see what you're saying. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's the first time 23 I've seen it, and it got my curiosity up on two or three 24 things that are going on in Precinct 4 that are a little bit 25 suspicious, so at least for now, it's -- it might be 5-9-05 213 1 helpful. 2 MR. ODOM: Well, I -- you know, we will 3 attempt as we go along. I'm sure where we find it, maybe we 4 can get some data out of this and notify -- right now, we're 5 just starting. So, with this direction of the Court, that's 6 what we'll do. We have no -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can try it for a 8 little bit and see if it's -- if not, we can certainly 9 discontinue it. 10 MR. ODOM: Right now, we don't have enough 11 data to go back and to say, you know, here it is. You could 12 see on the second page the subdivision plats and the 13 floodplain construction permits. Most of these have been 14 addressed or are going on subdivision plats. The others are 15 working. And then, on the following pages, we had 14 16 inquiries on -- subdivision inquiries, and 10 floodplain. 17 And also, we have a list -- I don't know whether you're 18 interested in this, but this is the leave taken, you know, 19 from sick time, worker's comp, vacation, jury, and funeral. 20 I don't know. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Leonard, I'm not sure -- 22 the floodplain inquiries are not, in my mind, as important 23 as the subdivision inquiries. 24 MR. ODOM: Okay. That would save a little 25 bit of -- 5-9-05 214 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Because on floodplain, 2 people just have questions, whereas if they're going to call 3 about platting, they probably have some kind of development, 4 whether it's a personal residence or selling a piece of land 5 or something going on. But on floodplain, at some point, is 6 there anyone that could come to the Court and give us, like, 7 a -- a half-day course on floodplains? As to what -- I 8 mean, I know we're responsible for it. And I know y'all are 9 doing it, and I know it's kind of shuffled around, but I 10 just don't know that much about what the rules are. I can 11 ask questions about what you can and can't do, and I just 12 don't know. 13 MR. ODOM: It depends upon the situation and 14 where they -- what they're doing. And certain things can be 15 done in floodplain. We could maybe contact someone with 16 L.C.R.A., the gentleman there. I don't know if FEMA might 17 have a representative that would come down. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It just -- and I don't -- 19 it may not be of interest to the rest of the Court; I don't 20 know, but I just thought -- I hear, you know, all these 21 things that are permits, and then I'm driving out on 22 Junction Highway and I see all these things being built 23 right along the river and all of this huge amount of fill 24 being put in there, and then I'm -- I thought we couldn't do 25 that. And, I mean, we did that on Bumblebee Creek; we added 5-9-05 215 1 a foot, and we spent weeks talking about that foot. So -- 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I went to a -- part 3 of a seminar here that was over at the Guadalupe Ranch 4 Hotel. It was two days for floodplain administrators, but 5 half of one of those days was for county commissioners or 6 judges that wanted to know more about it. It was really 7 helpful. I think L.C.R.A. was the sponsor of it, if I 8 remember. Did you go to that thing? 9 MR. ODOM: I went to -- well, I was 10 certified. I went to Lufkin for four and a half or five 11 days, and then I've got that. We did go to one. There is 12 one that would be coming in October here at the Inn of the 13 Hills, and I think it's going to be again this -- this next 14 October, and they go over a lot of things. It's very 15 informative. But you can build with our '92 rules; there 16 are exceptions to that fact if you have a no-rise 17 certificate and some engineering is done. So -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I don't want to go 19 into the details. 20 MR. ODOM: Yeah. It depends upon the 21 circumstances and some questions on big subdivisions or 22 something like that, but most of the cases we have are 23 individuals. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If there's a -- you know, 25 if something comes up or if you can contact L.C.R.A. or 5-9-05 216 1 FEMA, I think it would be helpful, because I get people who 2 call -- well, one person. I mean, it's not like it happens 3 daily, but down in the floodplain, and get all upset because 4 there's no permits. I think maybe it's appropriate for 5 somebody -- you know, they get mad about it, and someone -- 6 you know, just -- I don't know enough to be able to even 7 tell someone to respond. I don't want to get into permits; 8 I just want to know agricultural exemption, what that means, 9 or if there is such a thing. There used to be one. 10 MR. ODOM: Not that I know of. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: A seminar might do 12 it, or we might just identify an expert and invite him or 13 her to come in here and talk to us. 14 MS. HARDIN: I think at their annual 15 conference he was talking about, they have a half-day 16 workshop strictly for commissioners courts -- 17 MR. EMERSON: Commissioners Court. 18 MS. HARDIN: -- on what's expected in 19 floodplain. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's in October? 21 MR. EMERSON: It's in October. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where? 23 MS. HARDIN: It was in November last year. 24 I'm not sure. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where? 5-9-05 217 1 MR. ODOM: Here. 2 MS. HARDIN: It was at the Inn of the Hills 3 last year. 4 MR. ODOM: Inn of the Hills last year. And 5 I -- we get the impression that they want to come back. 6 They like Kerrville, and they like to have that, and it's 7 centrally located for a lot of people around the area to 8 come. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, that might be good 10 if you'll keep us advised of that; remind us. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I wanted to ask you 12 about personnel. I have a lot of occasion to see your 13 three-person crews out there working. 14 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And it looks to me 16 like they're highly productive. Unlike some other outfits, 17 there's nobody standing around and watching the rest of them 18 work. If there's three pieces of equipment up there, 19 they're all three being operated, so I've got a positive 20 view of the productivity for Road and Bridge crews. Tell me 21 about how they go to work. Do they show up at the work 22 site, or do they come to your office? What do they do about 23 lunch? Just what's the -- out of eight hours paid, -- 24 MR. ODOM: Eight hours paid. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- how do they spend 5-9-05 218 1 it? 2 MR. ODOM: We start at 7:30 in the morning 3 and report there. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: "There" being where? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Road and Bridge. 6 MR. ODOM: The main office. At -- at our 7 office down there. And from there, they're disbursed out to 8 the different things, and they have a plan. We normally go 9 in and have a calendar, and they have -- that the 10 supervisors worked out, and so we sort of have a plan of 11 where they're going on a monthly deal. That changes 12 depending upon the circumstances, what we need to get done, 13 or weather. They come in, they go out there, they have 14 their trucks there. Maybe some trucks are already in Center 15 Point or there in the Ingram yard, but traveling -- they 16 report there, they spread out, they go to work. Noon is 17 normally lunch, but they will work until they -- the 18 supervisor gets to a point that it -- it may be 12:30; it 19 may be 12:45. They may take a 30-minute lunch break, and 20 then they go back to work. And then we get off at 21 4 o'clock. So -- 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, for example, if 23 somebody's working out there -- a crew's working out there 24 in Guadalupe Ranch Estates, which is 40 minutes from here or 25 so, and they shut down this evening -- and maybe they live 5-9-05 219 1 in Ingram; I don't know -- wouldn't it be more effective for 2 them just to report back to that work site the next day? 3 MR. ODOM: Are you talking about the men? 4 Well, not everybody -- just the supervisors have a vehicle. 5 And in your case out there, we have that blue truck for Ed 6 and them to use to go out to the field sometimes, or maybe 7 report to -- to get hold of a contractor that's dumping, 8 like Vulcan or something like that, or to meet somebody. 9 But other than that, I -- it might be. The Court has 10 directed us that -- years ago, that everybody was to go to 11 one place. They used to report to Ingram, and then they had 12 to work -- pick up equipment there, and to Center Point, but 13 we no longer use that one. And -- and it's -- I've got two 14 crews, for the west end, anyway. And so, basically, we just 15 sort of divide up. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: There might be some 17 productivity in doing it differently. 18 MR. ODOM: I don't know if it would 19 accomplish anything, because that supervisor's still got to 20 drive down to get back to the -- to that point. And at 21 7:30, those men are there, and -- and we're out pretty 22 quick; 15, 20 minutes. They do shut down -- if they're way 23 out there at the Y.O. or something, they probably need to -- 24 to leave by 3:00, 3:15, just to get the 8-cubic-yard dump 25 truck back into the yard. We try to keep equipment -- maybe 5-9-05 220 1 there's someplace that we can leave equipment, and then 2 sometimes we think that we'd be better off -- maybe we'll 3 just take it in, particularly dump trucks. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: My way of thinking 5 is, unless -- that there's no reason that they -- they have 6 to go to your office every morning if there's a better way 7 to do it. 8 MR. ODOM: If there's a better way to do it, 9 and the Court gives me a direction to do that. I'm just 10 doing what the Court directed me many years ago. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm not trying to 12 run your business for you. I'm just -- 13 MR. ODOM: No, sir. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Maybe there's a way 15 to keep people on the job and -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I can see there's 17 probably pros and cons to doing it both ways. I mean, 18 there's -- your way, they're -- one way they're taking 19 personal vehicles out to job sites, and we've heard that's a 20 bad thing already this morning. And your way, coming into 21 the office, they all go out with the supervisor, so they all 22 go there in a County vehicle. And I guess the other thing 23 would be, you know, if the guy from Ingram -- it may be 24 easier for him to go straight out there, but the guy that -- 25 maybe it's someone from Center Point that's working out 5-9-05 221 1 west. 2 MR. ODOM: He's going to be sitting there 3 waiting on that individual to get there for that amount of 4 time, to work from this side to the other side. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But -- 6 MR. ODOM: But it's -- you know, it has 7 worked. It's not maybe the best way, but that's the way we 8 were directed, and that's the way we've been doing it. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I used to hang 10 around the TexDOT crowd a little bit, and they do it like 11 you do. And I think that that briefing that they do first 12 thing in the morning may be the most important thing they do 13 all day. Everybody knows what everybody's doing, and they 14 know what they're to do for the day. 15 MR. ODOM: For the day. And sometimes -- I'm 16 sorry. Go ahead, Commissioner. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's important. 18 MR. ODOM: Sometimes we have people that 19 don't show up, and in that case, it would make it more 20 difficult out there if they reported than it does right 21 there at the office, 'cause then I can swing people around 22 because I sort of know where everybody's going and what 23 their needs are. So, as far as personnel, it really helps 24 me when I'm at one area, but if they were out at Center 25 Point and someone called in, they're not going to know that. 5-9-05 222 1 We're going to know in the office when they call in or leave 2 a message for us, and then it -- it is just worked out that 3 it -- it helps us managerially to make the system work. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got one more 5 quick question. This worker's claim -- worker's comp issue 6 that you said that you might consider excessive, and wanted 7 to know if the Court would address the issue. What -- like, 8 address what? 9 MR. ODOM: Address how many -- we have 10 nothing in -- we used to have in our personnel rules a 11 number of accidents that would be excessive, and I was -- 12 when I've gone to some personnel things, they said unless we 13 have -- I can't just arbitrarily do it. It needs to be a 14 policy of -- of the county. And, so, what is excessive? I 15 don't know. It doesn't necessarily have to be workmen's 16 comp, but in this one particular case, there is -- that's 17 expensive, 'cause every form costs me $300. So -- I mean, 18 whether they go to the doctor or not, it costs us $300. And 19 we may get it back, but if there's a doctor's -- if they 20 don't go to the doctor, you get it back. But if they have 21 to go to the doctor or something, that's $300. It's -- 22 everything adds up. And what is excessive? Is it six? 23 Seven? Eight? Ninety-six hours a year in medical? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: County Attorney has something. 25 MR. EMERSON: I just want to make one brief 5-9-05 223 1 point. If I'm not mistaken -- well, let me start out by 2 saying we need to be very, very careful with worker's comp. 3 MR. ODOM: Very careful. 4 MR. EMERSON: And, if nothing else, I should 5 make that point that I think Lowe's just paid $4.3 million 6 because they terminated somebody after a worker's comp 7 injury. So -- 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We can't do that. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I think it's the term 10 "retaliation." 11 MR. EMERSON: I believe so. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: The term that they use in the 13 statute. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: But there's 15 something going on in government on worker's comp. It's 16 different than -- than industry. Jonathan was talking 17 about -- he said something about Exxon Refinery today. The 18 Exxon Refinery may have 4,000, 5,000 people there; I don't 19 know. They may go a year without a worker's comp claim. 20 None. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Biggest problem we're 22 seeing right now is finding any doctor that will take 23 worker's comp claims. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: That's been a -- 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's getting to be a 5-9-05 224 1 nightmare. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: That's been a problem for a 3 number of years, since they changed the system over and 4 they've beaten them down. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think there's 6 something different about our culture and our mentality, 7 though, that maybe encourages making worker's comp claims. 8 I don't know that. I just -- 9 MR. ODOM: Even -- 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: When I see our data 11 on a poll, I know of industrial organizations that go years 12 without a lost-time accident, literally. 13 MR. ODOM: I presented to the Court several 14 years back a concept -- I say that. Maybe I gave to it 15 Judge Henneke; I don't remember, but sometimes using sick 16 leave excessively. We only have three-man crews, so I've 17 got it down to the bare bones, so when I've got someone 18 gone, it really affects the -- the over -- you know, the 19 work, and I don't have that spare person to fit in. I've 20 sort of got it right now, but, I mean, if -- if it's 21 excessive. And we -- I had read different things that -- 22 sometimes I've got some men that have 1,000 hours, 900 23 hours, 800 hours. They're not sick; they've saved it. And 24 I have some that have none. So, I was thinking maybe 25 there's an incentive -- an incentive where you would buy 15 5-9-05 225 1 days of sick leave for five, something that some people 2 would have an incentive to save sick leave. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: A lot of your big 4 corporations, you may know, have gone and done away with 5 sick, vacation, everything, and all they're doing is giving, 6 like, five personal days a year, period. The employee can 7 take those for whatever reason, and that's it. There's 8 nothing else. Which is bad, but that's the way a lot of 9 them are having to go because of sick leave abuse. I have 10 it in our department too, and there's no doubt. And every 11 time we have it, it's -- somebody's in on overtime. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Well, it's -- it's 13 definitely a personnel management issue, and the more -- the 14 more -- the greater number of personnel, the more of those 15 problems you're going to have. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's right. Exactly 17 right. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: So, you know, the ideal thing 19 is to operate with the fewest number of people that you've 20 got to have to do the job. You've got to take a look at 21 those one by one. And there's -- there's some -- there's 22 some pretty sticky wickets from a legal standpoint if you're 23 not careful. 24 MR. ODOM: On worker's comp, there certainly 25 are. And -- well, on any one of them, when you try to pull 5-9-05 226 1 someone -- 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just can't imagine 3 this Court setting a policy, though, that if -- if you get 4 hurt five times, you're gone. 5 MR. ODOM: No. No, it may be a letter or 6 something like that, or warning or something like that. But 7 where -- where's the line over a couple of years? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think you've got to 9 grin and bear it. Following up on the Commissioner, say the 10 guy uses up his five times, if that's the policy, and the 11 sixth time he absolutely destroys his back. You know, 12 hello, lawsuit. 13 MR. ODOM: But, probably, between Solid Waste 14 and Road and Bridge, that's two of the -- and maybe law 15 enforcement is in there too, but I -- Solid Waste used to be 16 the worst in San Antonio, because we never knew what the 17 hazards were in there. And, of course, we're out there 18 lifting, and some of us are not 21 any more, and it -- it 19 makes it difficult when we're only -- 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Safety pack, for what it 21 is -- what it does cost overall, is the only thing you can 22 do. 23 MR. ODOM: It is not a horrendous thing, but 24 it is a problem. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: That's another reason that the 5-9-05 227 1 safety program is so, so important. 2 MR. ODOM: Yes. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: That we put a lot of emphasis 4 on it. We give it all the support that we can, and we make 5 sure that it works and it's worked continuously. 6 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. That's all I have. Is 7 that -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's what we were 10 looking for, just a discussion on your department. 11 MR. ODOM: Thank you. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 13 (Discussion off the record.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Facilities and Maintenance. 15 Mr. Holekamp. 16 MR. HOLEKAMP: First of all, I wasn't quite 17 sure what y'all were wanting, so I just was going to try to 18 give you a summary of what we did. I don't know -- didn't 19 think you wanted a blow-by-blow account of every commode we 20 fixed and -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We want a summary. 22 MR. HOLEKAMP: -- every door we've had to 23 repair at the Sheriff's Department due to poor driving. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That wasn't my fault. 25 MR. HOLEKAMP: Oh, no, it wasn't his guy, 5-9-05 228 1 but -- it was a food service truck. But what I'm saying 2 is -- is I -- since this is our first month, I would really 3 like for y'all to tell me really what -- what you want in a 4 report. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I can tell you how 6 to start out. 7 MR. HOLEKAMP: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Because I was the one 9 that put it on the agenda, got the whole thing started. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: It was in the memo also as a 11 suggested minimum. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just kind of -- 13 MR. HOLEKAMP: I didn't -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, like, for you, kind 15 of a -- you know, employees, what they're doing. Staffing 16 levels, just to, you know, reiterate that. Budget, where 17 we're going with budget. And the maintenance thing is -- 18 you know, what's down the horizon long-term? What are we 19 going to do today? What kind of maintenance schedule are 20 you working on? 21 MR. HOLEKAMP: Okay. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The general department 23 things, so we can be hopefully better at understanding what 24 all our departments and few hundred employees are -- 25 MR. HOLEKAMP: I can do that. We keep 5-9-05 229 1 calendars. And, like, in May, for example, we had -- we're 2 going to have four weddings at the Union Church. And I will 3 tell y'all, it makes money, the Union Church does. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Hooray. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The only department in 6 the system that makes any money is Union Church. 7 MR. ALFORD: Excuse me? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And are you part of 9 Maintenance? 10 MR. ALFORD: Oh, no. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hold it down back 12 there, then. 13 MR. HOLEKAMP: But, no, the Union Church is 14 being used quite frequently now as a little chapel. They -- 15 they're -- Alyce does an excellent job of making sure those 16 people leave it in the condition that they use it. We 17 have -- we are doing the cleaning on it. But, I mean, we -- 18 we discourage rowdy behavior in that particular facility. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're not going. 20 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yeah. The -- the Ag Barn, 21 rental on it, that is -- I'm looking forward to some policy. 22 I think it's going to help us. And that goes right -- I'm 23 going to just kind of go off of what Jon said -- 24 Commissioner Letz, I'm sorry -- that the policy that we 25 develop can really make a difference in that budget. And, I 5-9-05 230 1 mean, from the top to the bottom. We can maybe make some 2 adjustments and changes that would be positive, both for the 3 public and for the County. So -- 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm working on it. 5 I've gotten all the information I asked for, and if my phone 6 will stop ringing and people bursting into my office -- like 7 the County Judge; he talked for a half hour -- I'll get that 8 thing done. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: My fault? 10 MR. HOLEKAMP: But this is a -- I think this 11 is a good start. We've heard some -- some very positive 12 things from our first session that we had. I think there's 13 some things that we can carry on a little bit more, and -- 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: How many employees 15 work -- how many employees does the Ag Barn consume? 16 MR. HOLEKAMP: Consume? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good choice of words. 18 MR. HOLEKAMP: Two full-time employees. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Two full-time 20 employees? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How many? 22 MR. HOLEKAMP: Two full-time employees. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And they work out 24 there? That's where they go to work every morning? 25 MR. HOLEKAMP: No. No, sir. 5-9-05 231 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Charged to their budget. 2 MR. HOLEKAMP: Charged to the budget, I'm 3 sorry. What -- what I do is -- is I have the parks -- parks 4 maintenance man, he shows up out there every morning and he 5 goes and does his mowing, watering, or whatever. One of the 6 maintenance people at the barn shows up there every morning 7 at 8 o'clock and does his thing. The other one that I 8 normally use right now is working here at the courthouse on 9 a construction project with my regular maintenance man, who 10 also has to go to the jail to do repair work. So, I 11 dispatch, on an as-needed basis, all of my men except for 12 one, basically. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: How about clerical 14 people? 15 MR. HOLEKAMP: I only have one, and that 16 clerical person does the booking of the Ag Barn, the church, 17 shows those facilities, does clerical work not only for 18 that, and for me also, and the maintenance ordering and 19 telephone communication. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Does anybody at the 21 Extension Office do work for the Ag Barn? 22 MR. HOLEKAMP: No, sir. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thank you. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How many -- what's your 25 maintenance staff right now? 5-9-05 232 1 MR. HOLEKAMP: Eight. 2 MS. DAVIDSON: What were you saying? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Number in Maintenance. 4 MR. HOLEKAMP: Eight full-time. Then I have 5 some contract laborers. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Plus you? 8 MR. HOLEKAMP: Nine with me, I think. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, does that include 10 Alyce? 11 MR. HOLEKAMP: That includes Alyce, yes. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So there's seven -- I 13 mean, she's more like you to -- there's seven people doing 14 the maintenance? 15 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, and Alyce. She does 16 custodial work also. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I was going to ask 18 the breakdown between maintenance and custodial. 19 MR. HOLEKAMP: Okay. I have -- I have three 20 full-time custodial people. They are -- they're sent to the 21 jail for half a day, one of them, and another one works here 22 about 80 percent of the time, but also does Road and Bridge 23 and does some other work here, custodial. Then the one 24 that's at the jail that does the Sheriff's Office in the 25 mornings, she's here in the afternoons cleaning here. And 5-9-05 233 1 then I have two contract people that come in after 5:00 for 2 approximately two hours each per day, three days a week, so 3 they're not getting that many hours; they're getting about 4 six hours each a week, but that's enough time to get these 5 offices that are occupied with patrons -- taxpayers, that we 6 can get in after 5 o'clock and clean them. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 8 MR. HOLEKAMP: The maintenance staff -- and 9 it -- we're on a project right now, and the County Attorney 10 is sitting in here, and I -- he has noticed we've been 11 trying real hard. We started out like a house afire on the 12 project, and it's kind of fizzled a little bit. We ran into 13 some issues with some taping and float people that wear 14 stripes, and they were not available to us with any 15 expertise other than pushing a lawnmower. So, we're -- 16 we're kind of retooling right now to try to -- 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Recruit. 18 MR. HOLEKAMP: -- recruit some -- some taping 19 and floating guys, and so I can -- because I know Rex is 20 having to step over us, and we're trying to get that 21 finished. Just with my guys, I can only keep one in there 22 full-time. The other one, he's being called to the jail to 23 fix stuff, so it really becomes a problem. We do a lot of 24 shuffling of people, and Alyce does a lot of that, I mean, 25 keeping these people going in the right directions. 5-9-05 234 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And then you have three 2 custodial and you have four maintenance? 3 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that right? 5 MR. HOLEKAMP: And the four maintenance, one 6 of them is parks, primarily, and one of them comes out of 7 the parks budget. One comes out of the jail budget, and two 8 out of the Ag Barn budget. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you have contract 10 labor as well? 11 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yeah. I have very little out 12 there. I use some part-timers on weekends and that sort of 13 thing, part-time people. We've had a real tough time 14 finding contract people that -- that you can call up at the 15 last minute and ask if you're willing to work on Saturday 16 night. They normally don't like to do that. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Glenn, do you have a -- I 18 guess, a plan for, like, more big maintenance projects? Or 19 a schedule for, like, painting, you know, all the 20 facilities? I mean, pretty much everything got painted 21 within -- not too long ago, 'cause most of them are new or 22 renovated. 23 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, I do. I've got the -- 24 the Tax Office; I need to repaint it, and I need to recarpet 25 that. Their carpet is in horrible shape, no different than 5-9-05 235 1 the County Attorney's. And -- you just keep quiet. He 2 seems to think his carpet needs to be replaced too, and it 3 probably does, because they hang around there a lot and 4 walk. But -- 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The hangout place. 6 MR. HOLEKAMP: Hang around the Sheriff's 7 Office. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just sit around in the 9 Sheriff's Office. 10 MR. HOLEKAMP: But -- I guess you'll get 11 even, huh? 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. You don't have 13 any more workers, Glenn. 14 MR. HOLEKAMP: Oh. But, no, the -- but, 15 there again, the Tax Office needs -- has some -- some needs. 16 We've repainted Jannett's, what, three years ago, I guess it 17 was. Finally got hers repainted. And we got this project 18 with the community service worker of getting the outside of 19 the building here pressure-washed and treated, tried to get 20 rid of the mildew. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Might be -- and I don't 22 want to go into all of it right now, but sometime during the 23 budget process, it might be good just to get a -- 24 MR. HOLEKAMP: Be glad to. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- a long-range plan, 5-9-05 236 1 'cause all our facilities seem to have built or renovated in 2 about a five-year period, and if we wait to get them all 3 done at once -- 4 MR. HOLEKAMP: I think the Court -- I would 5 really like to see some decisions made on -- on this carpet 6 thing. Carpet's got a real short life, working in public 7 areas. So, I'd really like some thought put into that, some 8 input from the Court as to -- I'm not a big carpet fan. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's what we were 10 looking for. 11 MR. HOLEKAMP: Is that what y'all wanted? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Any questions? 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thanks. 14 MR. HOLEKAMP: Oh, and -- oh, for a sideline, 15 I don't know if everybody knew it; we got a bunch of trees 16 from U.G.R.A. We got a bunch of trees from L.C.R.A. last 17 year, and I guess we've added about 140 trees and shrubs to 18 our parks, and -- and that takes a little time watering 19 them, especially when it doesn't rain. We're trying to get 20 some cypress trees started, and it takes water, and so we're 21 developing -- we spend a lot of time on that, but I don't 22 want to lose them. So -- 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Glenn, would you 24 order the port-a-pottys for Ingram Dam? 25 MS. DAVIDSON: I can't hear you. 5-9-05 237 1 MR. HOLEKAMP: Got it written down right now 2 as we speak. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thank you. 4 MR. HOLEKAMP: That's for Memorial Day. 5 MS. DAVIDSON: Yeah, to go do. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: As soon as possible. 7 MS. DAVIDSON: I'm calling them right now. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thank you. 9 MS. DAVIDSON: Welcome. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's safe for me to 11 go home now. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Collections. 13 MR. ALFORD: My carpet's fine. I don't have 14 any carpet. Real quick, I'm assuming the main thing y'all 15 are -- would like to know about is my bottom line. First 16 quarter of this budget, we're at 75 percent collection, 17 County Court at Law, $123,000. We're still having 18 tremendous amounts of trouble collecting our felony money. 19 Linda Uecker went to Austin and testified, I believe, for 20 the House -- I don't remember who she testified for. She 21 didn't get a good feeling out of that, so we've gotten with 22 probation. We're going to try some new avenues on different 23 hearings on the felons. The 198th District Judge is going 24 to try to look at some law and see what we can do. He's 25 trying to help us, so we have some stuff working on the 5-9-05 238 1 felony side right now. Collections is about 9 percent over 2 last year at the same -- first quarter. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Dollars? 4 MR. ALFORD: 123 -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, 90 percent dollars? 6 Or -- 7 MR. ALFORD: Last year, first quarter was 8 96,000 and change. This year is 123,000 and change. We're 9 trying anything we can. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is the increase due to 11 number of convictions or cases? Are fines higher? 12 MR. ALFORD: Well, I think it's probably an 13 increase of cases being filed. But, again, if we take -- 14 that's why I tried to work more with the percentages of what 15 we collect, just to show that -- show that we're still 16 hustling. But y'all are getting more money, so to speak. 17 And I'd like -- I'm assuming that means that you are leaving 18 the Sheriff's Office a little bit more often and Rex is 19 filing the cases. 20 (Discussion off the record.) 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Just one question 22 from me. 23 MR. ALFORD: Yes, sir? 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The Kerrville EMS 25 has a 54 percent collection rate. 5-9-05 239 1 MR. ALFORD: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: If you've got some 3 ideas about how they can improve that, would you give them 4 to Commissioner Baldwin? 5 MR. ALFORD: We've talked a little bit about 6 that the other day, but my biggest benefit on County Court 7 at Law -- see, EMS sends out a bill -- is the media gone? 8 Yeah. EMS sends out a bill, and what happens? They throw 9 it in the trash can or they submit it to insurance. That's 10 the end of it. Me, if you don't pay me, I send him. And 11 that's -- that's why our collection rate is where it is. 12 But, yes. And I have an idea that a lot of times these 13 people move. That's one of our biggest deals, is locating 14 people. We constantly help the Sheriff's Office locate 15 people. That's one of our second biggest things we do. 16 Well, it's right along with J.P.'s. One thing, the J.P.'s, 17 when we took them on, we really have no way of tracking how 18 much money we're making for them, but we know we are making 19 money. They -- the J.P.'s tell us, "We got checks; we got 20 money orders." Some of them end up in our office; we'll 21 take them down. So I can't give you a dollar amount, but I 22 can tell you we -- it is helping some. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Your efforts are effective for 24 them? 25 MR. ALFORD: Yes, sir. 5-9-05 240 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Does the City -- they 2 don't have -- the City does not have a collections group? 3 MR. ALFORD: No, sir. You don't see -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: City Marshal. 5 MR. ALFORD: City Marshal does. He's been 6 over -- I forgot his name. He's come over with us. You 7 don't see a lot of city collections departments throughout 8 the state. I think they're coming now, but you don't see a 9 lot of them. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else for Mr. Alford? 11 Thank you, sir. 12 MR. ALFORD: Thank you. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Keep raking in the dough. 14 MR. ALFORD: We understand our goals. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Does any member of the Court 16 have anything that we need to go into closed or executive 17 session on? Hearing none, we'll move on. Mr. Auditor? I 18 think we're ready for you, sir. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move we pay the bills. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to 22 pay the bills. Any question or discussion? All in favor, 23 signify by raising your right hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5-9-05 241 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carries. Budget 3 Amendments. Budget Amendment Request Number 1. 4 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 1 is for 5 Nondepartmental, to transfer $579 in Autopsy and Inquest to 6 Pauper Burials. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And that covers one -- 8 MR. TOMLINSON: That's one. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- that's pending or 10 something out there. I move that we pay Budget Amendment 11 Number 1. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 14 approval. Any question or discussion? All in favor of the 15 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Budget 20 Amendment Request Number 2. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: Is for the Ag Barn, a request 22 from Mr. Holekamp to transfer $50 from Office Supplies to 23 Postage. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 5-9-05 242 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Any 2 question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify 3 by raising your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Budget 8 Amendment Request Number 3. 9 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 3 is for the jail. 10 The Sheriff requested to transfer $487.10 from Jailer 11 Salaries, $62.87 to Radio Repairs and $434.23 to Office 12 Supplies. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Any 17 question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify 18 by raising your right hand. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Budget 23 Amendment Request Number 4. 24 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 4 is for the 25 Treasurer, to transfer $50 from Employee Training to Bonds 5-9-05 243 1 and Insurance for new Deputy Treasurer. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Any 5 question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify 6 by raising your right hand. 7 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 9 (No response.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Budget 11 Amendment Request Number 5. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 5 is a request from 13 the County Clerk to replace a reader-printer machine for her 14 microfilm. Actually, the payment of this, we plan to come 15 out of two budgets, one out of Elections -- I mean from 16 Records Management, I'm sorry. $2,700 from Maintenance 17 Contracts to Operating Equipment, and then $2,000 from 18 Microfilm Expense to Operating Equipment out of the Records 19 Management budget. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 23 approval. Any question or discussion? All in favor of the 24 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5-9-05 244 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Do we 4 have any more budget amendments? 5 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Any late bills? 7 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I have here before me monthly 9 reports from the Sheriff's Department, County Clerk, March 10 Amended Report, and then the County Clerk, I assume for 11 April? 12 MS. PIEPER: That is correct. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Constable, Precinct 1, and 14 Justice of the Peace, Precincts 1, 2, and 3. Do I hear a 15 motion that these reports be approved as submitted? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 20 approval. Any question or discussion? All in favor of the 21 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Do we 5-9-05 245 1 have any reports from any of the Commissioners in their 2 liaison/committee assignments? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Any reports from elected 6 officials? 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: One question. 8 Guidance -- no, this is a guidance. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm sorry. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And I need kind of a 11 direction, because it will impact my budget preparations. 12 Number one, I'll tell you like I told you before; Capital 13 Outlay items for both jail and Sheriff's Office, we're going 14 to submit zero for both of those. That includes four cars. 15 I'll pay them out of a seizure account. The second thing 16 is, I am cutting two personnel positions at the Sheriff's 17 Office, one in the Sheriff's Office, one in the jail. But 18 we are getting a lot of -- and I think we are very weak in 19 this, in courthouse security, and because of what's happened 20 over the past number of months across the nation, I have 21 been looking at courthouse security strongly. 22 We had Guardian -- the people that redid all 23 the camera system and that in the jail over here last week. 24 They are submitting me a bid for a camera system -- 25 monitored system that's reported, and for a panic system 5-9-05 246 1 that we give pretty well all department heads and a number 2 of people in each department a capability of pushing a 3 button, and it will either go to our dispatch immediately, 4 or go across a radio system immediately, or it will go to a 5 courthouse security officer, where that tells him that they 6 need help in this department. And if he gets there and sees 7 they need help, he pushes a button that's on his radio, and 8 it will go across our entire radio frequency saying that 9 there is an emergency at the courthouse, and then it's -- 10 all cars are red lights and sirens to the courthouse. But 11 that button will be controlled by the courthouse security 12 personnel, except for J.P. 4, 'cause this will cover all the 13 J.P.'s and satellite offices, the same system will. J.P. 4 14 will have to go directly to our cars because of the way it 15 works, and no security officer up there all the time. 16 I would expect that bid's going to come in -- 17 and this is a total guess at this point right now, just by 18 what the camera system cost us in the jail and what the -- 19 the panic system was costing -- is going to cost us last 20 year, but I would guess it's going to be in excess of 21 $100,000 to do these upgrades. What I am asking is 22 guidance, and will this Court allow me to apply to the 23 Peterson Foundation for a grant to cover the cost of these 24 upgrades? I think that it is a high topic and a hot topic 25 right now. I think that upgrades are definitely needed, and 5-9-05 247 1 I think it would be something that Peterson Foundation, in 2 the past, would look at, because it does serve all the 3 citizens that use this courthouse, and the security 4 capacity. So, I would like -- you know, we've always talked 5 about -- I don't want to just go out for a local foundation 6 grant without y'all's approval. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- I personally 8 think it's a good approach. And I think that the other part 9 of that is that, even with -- and, you know, I've told Rusty 10 this; is he's aware that I think we probably need to add 11 personnel as well to courthouse security, which is part 12 of -- his reserve program may help that. But that's 13 somewhat iffy, but I don't have any problem with it. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'll have figured in 15 this budget two additional courthouse security personnel 16 that would go along with that, and I'm hoping to get by with 17 one if the reserve program kicks off well enough between now 18 and October. Okay. I just don't know exactly how many 19 reserves I'm going to be able to have, but my plan is one 20 would be to monitor the camera system. That doesn't have to 21 necessarily be an officer; it needs to be somebody trained 22 and has capabilities, so we can work on that part of it. 23 But one is -- Chuck's position upstairs stays there, and one 24 more for downstairs that we could -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- 5-9-05 248 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- control this and 2 respond quickly to any of those panic systems. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's -- an 4 important component of the grant is that we're not just 5 asking the Foundation to fix the courthouse security 6 problem. We're asking for the hardware; we're adding 7 personnel. And I think, the way they work, they would like 8 that. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Personnel would not be 10 part of the grant. It's just the -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's just the equipment. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- the equipment. And 13 we've had -- as Juvenile Probation can tell you, we've had 14 cases of criminal mischief around the courthouse at night. 15 The camera system that would be on the outside is a 16 zoom-type camera system that would record all this digitally 17 so that we would have a lot better capabilities, and it goes 18 from -- from every office downstairs all the way through the 19 top and around the outside of the courthouse, where -- a 20 camera system that would be monitored from here, the -- the 21 broadband, where that came into effect. That will also 22 allow us at the jail to take a certain select few of those 23 cameras that we want to monitor 24 hours a day. 'Cause here 24 they're mainly going to get monitored during the -- during 25 the business hours. You know, they're recorded. Any time 5-9-05 249 1 there's any movement in the camera, it's like we have at the 2 jail; it automatically records so the next day we could 3 review those. But there's some cameras we might want to 4 monitor 24 hours a day around the courthouse. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't have a 6 problem with it. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I have to wait till I 8 see what the bid -- what the figures come in at, but I'm 9 guessing it's going to be at least that. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, of course, we need to be 11 mindful that right now we're gathering specs more than 12 anything else. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Because, in all probability, 15 we're going to have to advertise for bids. But we need to 16 figure out what type of security system we need before we 17 can even -- 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. It's going to 19 equal out to about 120 panic buttons and 54 cameras, so it's 20 been figured right now. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think once you get 22 the bids in -- 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Then we'll -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- you'll probably have 25 another meeting. I don't know if this is something that -- 5-9-05 250 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But in my budget 2 preparation, to be able to get it turned in, I need to know 3 the personnel, looking at courthouse security. Our 4 courthouse security budget has not changed except for 5 Chuck's, you know, longevity and cost in five years. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We have a separate 7 fund for courthouse security? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There is some funds that 10 are -- but I don't know; I think Tommy and I looked at it. 11 I think our courthouse security budget right now, total is 12 about -- 'cause all it is is his salary and benefits and 13 that, and it's about 44,000. But I think the funds 14 generated -- and I think there is a bill that would up those 15 fees that defendants would have to pay before the 16 Legislature right now. But I think last year, the funds 17 generated, what I was told, was somewhere around 35,000. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where would you put 19 all this equipment, monitors and so forth? 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: When you step off the 21 elevator upstairs, what we have allowed the 198th District 22 Attorney's office to use while they're here, whenever 23 they're up here, that one glass little cubbyhole there. 24 That's what that was originally designed for when y'all 25 changed that. And we looked at it, and it would be a 5-9-05 251 1 perfect place to do all the monitoring of the cameras and 2 everything. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think once you get the 4 proposals back, put it on our agenda. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. Well, I just 6 needed some kind of guidance to know about manpower in the 7 budget. Thank you. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. We appreciate 9 it. Any other reports to be rendered to the Court? Any 10 further business? We will stand adjourned. 11 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 3:51 p.m.) 12 - - - - - - - - - - 13 14 STATE OF TEXAS | 15 COUNTY OF KERR | 16 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 17 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 18 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 19 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 20 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 18th day of May, 2005. 21 22 23 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 24 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 25 Certified Shorthand Reporter 5-9-05