1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Special Session 10 Monday, May 23, 2005 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 DAVE NICHOLSON, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X May 23, 2005 2 PAGE --- Visitors' Input 3 3 --- Commissioners' Comments 16 4 1.1 Consider, discuss and approval of resolution opposing the Trans Texas Corridor 19 5 1.2 Award Bank Depository Bid 30 6 1.3 Consider and discuss approval of resolution 7 adopting National Incident Management System 37 8 1.4 Consider and discuss advertising and/or soliciting proposals or bids for county long distance 9 telephone service 38 10 1.5 Consider and discuss implementing a moratorium on new employments to the Kerr County payroll 41 11 1.6 Receive and open bids on Kerrville South 12 Wastewater Project, Phases II and III 56 13 1.7 Consider and discuss design and construction of parallel taxiway at City of Kerrville/Kerr County 14 Airport 58 15 1.8 Report on Juvenile Detention Facility salaries 69 16 1.9 Discuss and consider authorizing the sale of the Kerr County Juvenile Detention Facility 81 17 4.1 Pay Bills 101 18 4.2 Budget Amendments 109 4.3 Late Bills 120 19 5.1 Reports from Commissioners/Liaison Committee 20 Assignments 120 21 4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 125 22 --- Adjourned 126 23 24 25 3 1 On Monday, May 23, 2005, at 9:00 a.m., a special meeting 2 of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in the 3 Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville, 4 Texas, and the following proceedings were had in open court: 5 P R O C E E D I N G S 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, ladies and 7 gentlemen. Let me call to order this regularly scheduled 8 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court scheduled for 9 this date and time, Monday, May 23rd, 2005, at 9 a.m. My 10 good friend, Reverend Al Shults, is with us this morning, 11 and I'd ask him to come forward and lead us in a word of 12 prayer. 13 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. At this time, if 15 there's my member of the audience or the public that wishes 16 to come forward and speak or bring matters to our attention 17 that do not relate to matters that are listed as agenda 18 items, you're free do so at this time. If you wish to speak 19 on an agenda item, we'd ask that you wait until that agenda 20 item is called, and we would prefer that you fill out a 21 participation form in the back of the room. It's not 22 essential, but it helps me to be sure that I don't miss you 23 when that item does come up. But if there's any member of 24 the public or the audience that wishes to speak on a matter 25 that's not a listed agenda item, please come forward at this 5-23-05 4 1 time. Yes, sir? The Sheriff. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, this is not what I 3 wanted to bring to the Court at any time during the rest of 4 my terms in office, but we are at now a critical point in 5 the jail, and I think it's time -- the Court's going to have 6 to seriously look at expansion of the jail. We've been 7 running between 185 and 193 all weekend. The ones that are 8 in there are not getting out. These are violation of 9 probations -- just the first three on our 26-page list is 10 immigration violation, aggravated sexual assault; this is 11 one person with a $250,000 bond. Second one on the list is 12 violation of probation, aggravated assault with a deadly 13 weapon, no bond. Third one is violation of probation, 14 manslaughter, and violation of probation, controlled 15 substances. These people aren't getting out. It's no 16 longer our misdemeanors. There is a Grand Jury in session 17 right now that has between 60 and 70 cases before it today, 18 and we have an investigation that's probably going to put 19 another 30 in in the next few months, and it's just 20 constantly going up. It's violent people. I've got every 21 separation cell full, and I have no way of classifying. 22 We've sent back all the out-of-countys, and it's not going 23 to get any better. I've looked at it all weekend, seeing 24 what type of charges, whether some of these could get out, 25 be on bond. They don't need to be on bond. It's just -- 5-23-05 5 1 you know, I'm the last one to say I want a bigger jail or 2 have to have more employees in the future, but we're at the 3 point this Court and the County needs to seriously look at 4 the expansion of the jail. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I'm going to 6 consider this a report from an elected official so we can 7 have conversation. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: You may. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. Rusty, are 10 any of those people out there -- are they ready to go to 11 T.D.C.? 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: T.D.C. inmates are not 13 our problem. Once they get sentenced to T.D.C., if they're 14 paper-ready, T.D.C. has 45 days to accept them. We don't 15 have any problem getting our inmates in T.D.C. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Are we still 17 having the same problem that you mentioned a couple of 18 months ago about getting them through the court system? 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that the problem? 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That is part of it, but 22 a lot of these people are no-bonds to begin with. You know, 23 this one here, the immigration hold and aggravated sexual 24 assault of a child with $250,000 bond, has been in jail 231 25 days. He's still waiting to go to court on the aggravated 5-23-05 6 1 sexual assault of a child. But then you have another one, 2 violation of probation, aggravated assault with deadly 3 weapon, he's only been in jail 13 days. He's going to be 4 there a long time. The violation of probation, 5 manslaughter, and violation of probation, possession of 6 controlled substance -- that's all one person -- only been 7 in jail 27 days. These people are just starting. We're 8 just -- I mean, it's really at the point to where I don't 9 even see the courts being able to speed up much any more to 10 get a lot of these out. We're just -- we have gone through 11 most of ours that are misdemeanors that you can actually let 12 out and can get out on bond or -- or that aren't a danger to 13 the public, and now we're at the point where the people we 14 have in jail need to be in jail. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, that's what 16 they're for. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And need to be locked 18 up. And it's just constantly going up. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The 195 that you have 20 in there, how many -- that's -- that's a pretty good bit 21 over the -- the safety number from the state. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We have 192 beds. For 23 me to be in -- not necessarily totally in compliance, but in 24 recommendation of what jail standards says so that you can 25 appropriately classify, we should not be over 153. 5-23-05 7 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And you have 195? 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, right this 3 morning, we have 186. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 186. How many of 5 those are out-of-county? 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: None. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Zero? You kicked all 8 the other counties out? 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I've kicked them out. 10 There may have been one left this morning from Bandera, and 11 I told them to call them and come get him, but that's it. 12 These are our folks. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's the breakdown, 14 Sheriff, between male and female prisoners? 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I've got 161 males and 16 25 females this morning. I'm out of female space. The most 17 we have is 32, even if you ended all classification and just 18 filled every bed you've got. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What do you do in a 20 situation when you are, in effect, over capacity? 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We try the best we can 22 at trying to get them classified in a manner that we don't 23 have too many fights among inmates. But, yeah, discipline 24 problems go up, everything goes up, because it does get very 25 tedious. Stress on jailers go up, everything, 'cause we -- 5-23-05 8 1 we do real well on that. My problem is also -- is that I've 2 got, like, 18 separation cells, but because of disciplinary 3 problems or because of classification, every single one of 4 them are full. I have no place to put -- 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Sheriff, if this 6 turns out to be a long-term issue, what's the alternative to 7 building more jail space? 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There isn't. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, you can house them 10 in other jails. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That would be the only 12 alternative. And most of the other jails are anywhere from 13 at least $37 to $50 a day. And the way this is going, it 14 would not surprise me one bit if, before the summer's out, 15 this county is not having to house out of county. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That what? 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That we're not having to 18 house inmates out of county. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Sheriff, a few 20 months ago, you -- you looked into the feasibility of using 21 all or part of the Juvenile Detention Facility for -- as a 22 jail. Is that -- can that be done? 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Not without some very 24 major remodeling right now, the way it is. There is a bill 25 before the Legislature; I don't know whether it will pass -- 5-23-05 9 1 I kind of doubt that it will -- that would cut down on the 2 square footage and bed size that has to be in adult jails. 3 If that passed, then there would be a possibility of being 4 able to use some of that other facility. You've still got a 5 problem of keeping, you know, the kids and -- juveniles and 6 adults separated, and then you got transport, food back and 7 forth, and all the other costs that would go along with it, 8 but that's a possibility. The way our jail was built, it 9 was built so that it could be expanded backwards, out the 10 back of the jail, without shutting down any part of the 11 jail. But what I'm bringing to y'all today is -- 12 unfortunately, we've talked about it in the past. We've hit 13 some close ones. I just don't see this going down, and I 14 see us staying where we are. And I think it's time this 15 County's going to have to seriously look at adding beds to 16 our adult facility. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the county inmate 18 population statewide? Are jails all maxing out? 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I really couldn't tell 20 you. I don't feel they are, 'cause we haven't been having 21 to house as many as we normally did for Bandera. But, you 22 know, I couldn't tell you there; I haven't looked into that. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that would be 24 something to -- that will be -- I don't know if they keep 25 that type of statistic, but it would be very helpful, I 5-23-05 10 1 think, if we could find out how -- not T.D.C. jails, but 2 county jails, what their capacity is statewide. I'd hate to 3 get in a situation where we end up with a whole lot more 4 capacity statewide than we need, which is kind of what 5 happened at the Juvenile Detention Facility. And -- and I 6 think we should kind of balance, you know, what the county 7 needs are. But -- you know, for -- 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: From what I have seen, 9 Commissioner, if we add on to the facility, I'm not adding 10 on 200 beds or, you know, double the size, but I think we're 11 going to have to add on, and at that point, I know 12 Fredericksburg is still housing a whole bunch out of county. 13 You know, other ones still are that are close; Kendall 14 County's doing some. I don't think we'd have the problem of 15 -- of filling it. But, to be perfectly honest, I'm not 16 sure, even if we added on 96 beds, okay, that we could house 17 very many out-of-county inmates any more. I think we're -- 18 this County's at the point -- and the violation of 19 probations, you know, and a lot of these people that are on 20 violation of probation, this isn't the first time they've 21 violated it, so they've already been in there, you know, 22 three or four times before for violation of probation and 23 got reinstated, and now it's coming to the point where we're 24 just in a critical situation. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What does the -- in your 5-23-05 11 1 opinion, anyway -- the judicial side need to do to get them 2 through the system quicker? Is it more judges? Or, I mean, 3 where do we need the -- the help? 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, this county has -- 5 and because of the makeup of the districts, okay, we are 6 overlapping. We actually do get more court days than 7 Fredericksburg or Boerne or Junction, because we have the 8 two district courts here. But, personally, you know, Kerr 9 County needs its own district to where they can run the 10 court and/or maybe its own criminal district court to where 11 they can run court three or four, at least, days a week, and 12 get these people through the court system. But then you 13 have -- it's a systemic deal. It goes back to we only have 14 a certain pool of -- of defense attorneys in this county, 15 okay? And half of them even come from San Antonio, but 16 they'll all have cases in other counties and other courts, 17 so the court dates don't work. And we've worked this 18 problem for forever, and it's just -- how do you get these 19 people through the system quicker? And I'm not sure there's 20 any way. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How many court dates do 22 we average a week for criminal cases in this county? 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: One to two. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One to two per week? 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Mm-hmm. Now, 5-23-05 12 1 misdemeanor court, County Court at Law does have court every 2 single Tuesday. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay? And your district 5 courts are the ones, you know, I'm really looking at, which 6 may be one to two days. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Almost all these inmates, 8 we're talking about district court, correct? 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. Most of these are 10 felony cases. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But there's -- I mean, it 12 seems that -- 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I've heard things like, 14 "Well, let's set them bonds that they can get out," or Let's 15 do this. But, you know, a lot of these are bond 16 forfeitures, failure to appears. That's what starts 17 happening at that point. They're issuing -- you know, some 18 of the misdemeanors, even a lot of them now, are getting 19 P.R. bonds, and then they don't show up for court. I think 20 your County Clerk can attest to that. And it's at the 21 point -- I keep a little bitty deal underneath my glass on 22 my table, been there ever since I got in law enforcement, 23 cut out of the newspaper, and it says, "Criminals deserve to 24 be looked up in jails. Citizens don't deserve to be locked 25 up in their homes." And I've always believed in that, and 5-23-05 13 1 that's where they need to be. But we're at the point, 2 gentlemen, where I can't do any more. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It seems to me that 4 the -- I mean, we may need to add onto the jail either way, 5 but that the solution is much more on the judicial side, 6 whether we really get with the judges here and Harvey and 7 Troy Fraser and try to get something in the Legislature next 8 time to realign the districts, or -- I guess it would take 9 legislation -- or whether we need to get another judge here, 10 something. 'Cause if we can't -- 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Even if it's on the 12 judicial side -- you know, it hasn't happened, and they said 13 it was going to, so we've been keeping our fingers crossed, 14 where they're at. Right at the first of the year, what we 15 were being told and told is to get ready, because T.D.C. was 16 going to have to shut their doors, 'cause they're getting 17 overcrowded. So they're going up, okay, their populations 18 are. Which means once they do get to the point that they 19 have to shut their doors, you know, these county jails, 20 especially ours, we're going to stack up in a -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But from a funding 22 standpoint, does the State not, after that 45 days -- last 23 time it happened, don't they start picking up the cost? 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They start picking up 25 the cost, but that doesn't help your crowding. 5-23-05 14 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, doesn't help your 2 crowding, but it helps the local taxpayers if we can get 3 them through the judicial side. I'd rather make it T.D.C.'s 4 problem than our problem. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: As long as we run the 6 building, though, we're going to have to look at expanding. 7 Even if T.D.C. reimburses, which they could and would have 8 to, we're still going to have to do something with the 9 building. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I -- yeah, I 11 don't have any -- 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They need the bed space, 13 and we're out of it. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sheriff, do your 15 average monthly statistics support this overload you're 16 reporting today? Or -- 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- what do they show? 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Average monthly 20 statistics, we are booking in -- it's well over 300 a month 21 going in and out of that jail. They get out all the 22 misdemeanors that can be gotten out. The ones that can't 23 end up getting housed. It's gone nothing but up. At one 24 point, you know, during last year, we were at, I think, 25 about -- the lowest we've gotten down to is about 135, 138. 5-23-05 15 1 But it has gradually -- you know, at one point already, 2 three years ago, two years ago, our jail did hit 208, and 3 now we're going to hit that again, in my opinion. And after 4 we start hitting it that many times, the population isn't 5 going to drop very low after that. We're just at the point 6 where it's -- it's increased. And it's -- I don't see it -- 7 the Grand Jury lists are getting longer and longer; every 8 month more and more felony cases are going to Grand Jury. 9 You know, more and more people getting incarcerated. It's 10 just -- it's a problem that we're going to have to look at, 11 and I don't know the solution to it any more. We've 12 tried -- we've tried to push -- move them out. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think it's up to 14 you, though, to initiate a plan of some sort. I mean, -- 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- as you well know, 17 this is a long, drawn-out process. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Very long. I think, at 19 this point, I need guidance from the Court whether -- does 20 the Court want to go ahead and start getting an architecture 21 or something, and look at -- at getting an idea of how the 22 expansion would take place and the costs of the expansion? 23 Is it something the County's going to want to do a bond 24 issue over, or how much do we want to expand? But I think 25 we're at the point where some -- some serious legwork and 5-23-05 16 1 some serious looking -- 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sounds like a workshop 3 to me. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- need to be done. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Does to me, too. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can we do it without 7 architects and lawyers? 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I would hope so. But I 9 just -- y'all need to know. Thank you. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Sheriff. Is there 11 any member of the public that wishes to be heard on any 12 matter that is not a listed agenda item? Seeing no one else 13 to come forward, let's get on with the agenda. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What about Commissioners' 15 Comments? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, I apologize for that. 17 Thank you for reminding me, Commissioner. Commissioner 1, 18 what do you got for us? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have nothing. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: See? I hope you've got a boat 21 load over here. Two? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What can you say 23 after the Sheriff tells us all this? Nothing. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I do have two comments. 25 First, when we were talking about the jail, I thought of 5-23-05 17 1 another jail-related item. I've been meeting -- or met with 2 the Sheriff a couple times, and we were talking. One of the 3 things that's needed out there is fencing around the jail. 4 Most of you are also aware that there is a fencing project 5 going on at the airport. I've talked with the contractor 6 that's doing the airport job, and the fencing is under -- he 7 owns it as part of the contract, 'cause we didn't foresee a 8 need at that time. But I talked with the contractor, and 9 he, it appears, is going to donate somewhere between 3,500 10 and 4,500 linear feet of fencing to the County, the old 11 8-foot fencing that will all be replaced along Highway 27, 12 and with that will come as many posts as are salvageable 13 when they take it apart, and that should be coming online 14 fairly soon. 15 I think the Sheriff's plan is to use inmates 16 to construct the fence. There may be some -- I think there 17 will be some expenditures; obviously, some parts will need 18 to be purchased, but I think it'll be a -- certainly, a huge 19 cost savings to the County by going this route, by using 20 that old fencing. And the other reason, one of the 21 really -- I think really important reasons is -- the 22 overcrowding even makes it more so, but if you've been out 23 to the jail recently, there's a lot of development going on 24 around there. It used to be kind of secluded. And I really 25 think it's a potential real problem to have open access to 5-23-05 18 1 that whole property, and I'd like to fence as much of it as 2 possible. I think the other advantage to that is that it 3 gives Rusty a way to put inmates out doing some manual labor 4 at the jail; mowing it, you know, possibly a garden, some 5 other things possibly, which I think helps with his -- with 6 the crowding, the population problems that he's having. I 7 think it helps to get them out doing something, as opposed 8 to sitting in cells all day. So, anyway, a couple benefits 9 from that, but I'll report more on that as we get the 10 fencing. 11 The other item is, I think everyone probably 12 received an e-mail or will get a copy of it from Kathy; I 13 just wanted to put it on everyone's calendar. I scheduled a 14 floodplain workshop for Tuesday, July 12th, at 1:30 in the 15 afternoon. I think there's a lot going on with the 16 floodplain that I certainly don't know really what the rules 17 are. And I asked Truby to set something up. We looked at 18 some June dates, but that really -- that's too soon, so I 19 said mid-July is a good time probably for that, and she has 20 scheduled Mike Howard with TexDOT to come in and give us a 21 workshop on floodplain administration. That's it. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Commissioner 4? 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I have nothing, 24 Judge. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have one quickie, 5-23-05 19 1 Judge. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just -- I want to 4 give congratulations to Councilman Gene Smith back there on 5 his selection as mayor pro-tem of the city of Kerrville, and 6 we look forward to working with you and your colleagues on 7 City Council. 8 MR. SMITH: Thank you. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Now we can get on with 10 the agenda. First item is consider and discuss approval of 11 a resolution opposing the Trans Texas Corridor. 12 Commissioner Baldwin? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, sir. 14 Gentlemen, you remember this was before us a couple of 15 months ago, and we had this huge presentation and lots of 16 discussion, and we just failed to take care of the 17 resolution, and I apologize for not getting that done. I 18 should have recognized it and gotten it done that day, but 19 things happen, and it just slipped by us. So, I move we 20 approve this resolution in opposition to the Trans Texas 21 Corridor program. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 24 approval of the agenda item. Any question or discussion? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have one comment. 5-23-05 20 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Questions and comments, 2 both. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Just one minor one. 4 The last Whereas, it says "...such an immense project could 5 negatively impact the most precious resource that this state 6 has." Which is? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Water. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Water. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Water. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Water, property, land, 11 birds, trees. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: My second one is a 13 little more general -- philosophical. I don't oppose the -- 14 a Trans Texas Corridor. I think our interstate highway 15 system is overburdened and it needs help. It's dangerous 16 and crowded. And some of you older people will remember 17 back in the 50's, when the Eisenhower system was created, we 18 heard these -- which is the interstate highway system -- we 19 heard these exact same things. And the benefits of the 20 interstate highway system are very clear. There's numerous 21 reasons it's beneficial. My objection to this is the scale 22 of it, this quarter-mile wide, the -- the what appears to be 23 selling or giving away commercial opportunities in that 24 quarter-mile-wide stretch. So, what I'm saying is, I think 25 we need a Trans Texas Corridor, and this is way beyond the 5-23-05 21 1 scope of anything that is needed. So, I oppose it as -- as 2 proposed, but I don't oppose the concept of needing a Trans 3 Texas Corridor. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the comment that 5 I have is very similar, and I've talked to -- actually, I 6 didn't know Commissioner Baldwin was putting this on the 7 agenda, 'cause Sharon Spenrath and I were working on a 8 different resolution that was going to be on the agenda next 9 time. But, anyway, Sharon may know; that's who brought this 10 to us originally. My problems are basically the same. I 11 think parts of the corridor are very much needed. I think 12 that the -- especially around the San Antonio to the Austin 13 area; they have a huge transportation problem in that area, 14 probably going all the way up to Dallas. 45 -- I think 15 there's some problems on, like, 45 as well. I think there's 16 a 59 increase, kind of the one that goes -- or 69; I guess 17 they call it I-69, which goes from Laredo to Houston, kind 18 of. That's probably needed. I think the scale is -- is 19 ridiculous. I don't know why they came up with the scale 20 like they did. I think the other part of this -- I mean, 21 the rail system, I don't understand the need for four -- 22 three or four rail lines in any transportation system. I 23 think one freight line, possibly, but I can not envision 24 transfer -- passenger or rail service ever taking off in 25 this state. 5-23-05 22 1 The other good part about it is that there's 2 -- a lot of the presentation was against water. Well, 3 another good part of this is water. I mean, there are plans 4 to build desalinization plants along the coast, and there's 5 no way to get that water inland unless you have a corridor. 6 So, I mean, there's a lot of good things and bad things that 7 were proposed in this. And I really don't have any idea 8 what House Bill 3588 says. I mean, I -- I'll go along with 9 the resolution, basically, and be done with it, but I 10 generally don't like passing a resolution against a bill 11 that I don't know what the bill is. It wasn't attached. 12 But my main comment would be just to add a few words at the 13 end of the "Therefore," what it says. Add the words, "as it 14 is currently proposed." 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That would satisfy 16 my concerns. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Because I think there are 18 some good points with it. I don't want to totally get 19 against it, but I think the way it is currently is bad, so I 20 would just add, "as is currently proposed," and be done with 21 it. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: You had some comments, 23 Commissioner Williams? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, I do, and I 25 offer -- I would probably offer another correction as well. 5-23-05 23 1 I support the one that you're talking about. I think 2 Commissioner 4's comments are -- are quite appropriate. It 3 is an overreach. It is particularly an overreach on the 4 I-10 corridor -- the improvement of the I-10 corridor. I 5 was out at the TexDOT regional meeting in which the district 6 director -- district engineer revealed the initial layout 7 and plans for the north-south corridor, and that's the one 8 probably that will contain the water pipelines that would 9 come up from the Gulf of Mexico. And it is an ambitious -- 10 really an ambitious undertaking, as currently proposed. And 11 there is a good -- as you can well imagine, there is a good 12 bit of resistance in some counties; not all, but some 13 counties, where the proposed north Texas corridor dissects 14 the state north to south. 15 So, when they finished with that 16 presentation, I requested -- asked him to tell me, you know, 17 about the east-west corridor, and his comment back to me was 18 that their -- the plans for the east-west corridor, which 19 would be the improvement of I-10, or something akin to I-10 20 or adjacent to I-10, are years -- his quote, "years and 21 years away." And so, you know, that sounds reasonable. It 22 may assuage some fears, but nonetheless, it probably is 23 still on the drawing board, but not to the point like the 24 north-south corridor is at this point. What he didn't tell 25 me, however, was that there appears to be an alternate 5-23-05 24 1 plan -- and Commissioner Baldwin and I talked to one of your 2 constituents, Commissioner, who showed us an original 3 schematic of -- layout of the proposed corridor, and there 4 is -- there is another corridor which is proposed which 5 would just about disect Kerr County in half, and it picks up 6 at the -- somewhere near the Gillespie County line and cuts 7 straight down through Kerr County, the purpose of which is 8 to take that flow -- east-west flow that is wanting to go 9 south or north and take it around San Antonio, and so it 10 would intersect with I-35 somewhere below San Antonio. 11 That one is the one that gives me a lot of 12 pause for concern, because it truly does cut Kerr County in 13 half, and I don't think that, in this particular plan, a lot 14 of thought has been given thus far to property rights, the 15 overreaching of the quarter-mile-wide corridor, all the 16 things that go with that. So, when I see the district 17 engineer again this weekend, I'll -- and this week, I'll ask 18 him where that one stands, because they didn't talk to me 19 about that one. But I would offer a couple other comments 20 too, Commissioner. On that last "Whereas," it doesn't have 21 a subject. We believe that such an immense project could 22 negatively impact Texas' most precious resource, which is -- 23 such as water, and let's at least put a subject there. And 24 then I support the -- the one that Commissioner Letz also 25 brought to the table. 5-23-05 25 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would rather add "water 2 and property rights." 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: All right, add 4 property rights. Water and property rights. That's fine. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What about birds and 6 snails? No, I'm joking. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Water and property 8 rights. That's fine, Commissioner. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All I know is that we 10 -- we need to oppose this thing. This is the largest taking 11 of private property in the history of this state, and it 12 just smacks of communism and everything. I just can't 13 believe that people are sitting around watching this thing 14 go through. It is absolutely incredible. And it's -- and 15 Bill -- House Bill 3588, if they take city or county 16 property, there is no compensation. They pay you nothing. 17 They just take it and go right on through. It is the most 18 incredible thing I've ever seen. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what 3588 20 says? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That is correct. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, no compensation 23 for -- 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: For government-owned 25 property. 5-23-05 26 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What -- I mean, 3588 was 2 passed. According to the resolution, what is it -- did our 3 Representative vote for it? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know. 5 Don't -- that's not my job. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just -- I don't know 7 what 3588 says, or what else it says. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's huge. Most of it 9 -- or a lot of it was presented to us in here; that's what 10 all that presentation was about, was that bill. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I've looked at the -- 12 I've went to their web site, and a lot of what they said 13 was -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Maybes and ifs and -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, maybe. I would not 16 say that that was -- it was a -- when I read it, I didn't 17 come up with the same -- a lot of the same information that 18 they came up with. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the property 21 rights issues, the road part, the first part -- I can't 22 remember which one was the first part. The part about the 23 roads, the widths and all that, schematics, I saw. I didn't 24 see a lot of the other information they talked about, but -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I agree. 5-23-05 27 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the other -- well, 2 actually, I mean, I don't think we need to work -- I had 3 written another "therefore" clause originally, and I don't 4 think we need to add it unless there's a lot of agreement by 5 the other Commissioners to do it, and it was something along 6 the lines that, "And further, be it resolved that any future 7 planning for the Trans Texas Corridor be done on a regional 8 basis with input from local communities and governmental 9 entities." 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I like that. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I like it. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You can add -- you can 13 add that. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They're not going to 16 read it. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're not going to read 18 it anyway. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We thought of all 20 those things and all these flowery words and all this, too. 21 They're not going to read it. And we'll -- I'll be happy to 22 add that in here; that's fine. All I want Harvey Hilderbran 23 and TexDOT to see is that this Court opposes this thing. 24 That's all I care about them seeing. They're not going to 25 read all this -- these pretty words in here, but we can sure 5-23-05 28 1 add them. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I just think you 3 ought to say what you mean. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right. What do 5 you want to add? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What I said. I mean, I 7 said -- I said, "And further, be it resolved that any future 8 planning for the Trans Texas Corridor be done on a regional 9 basis with input from local communities and governmental 10 entities." Now, the reason that I would also caution that 11 is that it kind of takes away from opposing it, though, 12 because it's talking about future planning. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, it does. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And, I mean, that's why 15 I, you know -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. And there's 17 another move afoot to ask them to do some studies before 18 they even start, which they're -- I understand their plan, 19 they've started. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, they've started, 21 yeah, the first part. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I-35 was started. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We don't have to add 24 that. I'd just leave it the way it is. I think Buster is 25 right; they're probably not going to read it to start with. 5-23-05 29 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm guessing that 2 the Legislature, whatever that is, has not handled this very 3 well. They've created a lot of paranoia that was probably 4 unnecessary if they had been a little more forthright with 5 the -- with the citizens. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think it ends up on 7 the governor's desk, is the -- who we're going to chunk any 8 rocks at. That's exactly where it goes. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's where it 10 started. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My recommendation is, how 13 about not adding that last change? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've already X'd it 15 out. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And then y'all accept the 17 other two changes? 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: "As currently 21 proposed," and "such as water and property rights." 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's my motion. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any further question or 25 discussion? All in favor of the motion for the resolution 5-23-05 30 1 as modified, signify by raising your right hand. 2 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 4 (No response.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's 6 move on to Item 2, awarding the bank depository bid. As you 7 know, we advertised for bids for the County depository for a 8 four-year term, as required by law, beginning June 1 of this 9 year. We received one response from Security State Bank and 10 Trust, which is our current depository, and with whom we've 11 enjoyed a fairly longstanding relationship. I'm not sure of 12 the exact total number of years. 13 MS. NEMEC: I'm going to say probably 13 14 years. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Good number of years, 16 to say the least. And they're the only ones that -- that 17 submitted a bid. The addendum that was attached to the bid, 18 for some reason, did not end up in the materials which I 19 have, and it appears that a good -- good portion of that 20 information is in the addendum. There's continuous 21 reference to "see addendum, see addendum." Does anybody 22 have that? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I do not have it. I have 24 the same question. And, really, the only -- I presume the 25 amendment sets all the fees and basically the fee schedule? 5-23-05 31 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the question I had -- 3 and we only had one bid; I don't know that we have a whole 4 lot of negotiating room on this, but on -- but on Paragraph 5 14, when we talk about direct deposit, payroll direct 6 deposits, it seems to me that that was fairly expensive 7 under our current contract, and I'm wondering if there's any 8 relief given, or if it's easier. 9 MS. NEMEC: I have asked some representatives 10 from Security State Bank to be here, or they wished to be 11 here, and so if y'all have any questions for them -- Ava? 12 Katie? Who wants to -- 13 JUDGE TINLEY: You folks just held an 14 election to determine who was going to speak, huh? Okay. 15 MS. JONES: Well, Katie is our cash 16 management representative, and so she was going to talk a 17 little bit about the cash management side of it, which would 18 go into the payroll direct deposit. 19 MS. DORRIS: The cash management portion of 20 our internet banking that we now have is -- the base part of 21 the fees is $25 a month, and then any transactions that 22 clear the account will fall under the normal account 23 analysis that currently you receive on the accounts. Am I 24 correct? Do they get charged for their analysis? Which is 25 the per-item items, the per-deposit fees, the per-check 5-23-05 32 1 fees. But the base part of that fee is just going to be $25 2 a month. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, on the -- so, for the 4 employees that choose to use direct deposit, we just pay $25 5 a month total for that service? 6 MS. DORRIS: Correct. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We don't pay for each 8 account -- or each employee, an additional fee? 9 (Ms. Dorris shook her head negatively.) 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Isn't that better than we 11 have currently? 12 MS. NEMEC: I think that's what we had 13 discussed in the budget workshop. Now, there's another fee 14 from The Software Group that will be charged, but as far as 15 the bank, I think we got $25 a month. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Jon, ask them the 18 question again. They -- they shook their heads. Get them 19 to say the word "no" for the record. (Laughter.) That's 20 pretty tricky. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: This would apply only to 22 employees who are depositors with Security State Bank and 23 Trust? Is that what I'm hearing? 24 MS. JONES: No, you can set it up to where it 25 would be through Wells Fargo, through Bank of America. 5-23-05 33 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 2 MS. JONES: Any of those outside of our bank. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: But you folks have nothing to 4 do with the software costs that are associated with that? 5 MS. DORRIS: If you want to continue to use 6 your current software. Now, I mean, our site is capable of 7 you being able to set up all of that in our sites, but you 8 can use the current software that you've got as well. 9 MS. NEMEC: We're supposed to have a meeting 10 sometime next week and get together and see how all this 11 direct deposit will work, and so we'll know more what we're 12 looking at with the bank. And then I'll get with The 13 Software Group and see exactly what they provide, and if the 14 bank provides the same thing for, you know, less, then we 15 can just do it all through the bank. I'm just not sure at 16 this point. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Your response would 18 indicate none of our employees are on direct deposit now. 19 MS. NEMEC: Not at this time. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it was because it 21 was expensive. I think we offered it, but I think -- I 22 mean, it's a direction I would like to see more employees 23 go. 24 MS. NEMEC: We approved it during the budget 25 workshop, and we had just been waiting -- I didn't want to 5-23-05 34 1 start anything too early, because I knew that we were going 2 to have to go out for bids, so we were kind of waiting for 3 this decision to be made and go from there. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there a -- a 5 mechanism -- and you talked about internet commercial 6 services, which I presume that covers, like, if we wanted to 7 start getting rid of using so many checks and start doing 8 just direct transfers? 9 MS. JONES: Yes. 10 MS. DORRIS: Yes. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, like, if we want to, 12 our Kerrville Telephone bills, we can just set up -- and you 13 can set it up as bill-pay through the internet? 14 MS. DORRIS: There is a separate fee for the 15 bill-pay, and the bill-pay portion is 4.95 a month for up to 16 20 bills, and then 55 cents per bill over 20. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Original fee schedule 18 attached. Is somebody in possession of the fee schedule? 19 MS. PIEPER: I have the original bid. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pardon? 21 MS. PIEPER: I have the original bid in my 22 office. Would you like me to go get it? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Really, all I want to 24 know is, how is it different from what's currently in place? 25 That's all I want to know. 5-23-05 35 1 (Discussion off the record.) 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tommy -- Tommy? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Tomlinson? Do you have 4 any light that you can shed on that for us? 5 MR. TOMLINSON: I think that the fee schedule 6 is very much similar to prior years. The -- to be able to 7 go down the list of fees to compare it, we don't have enough 8 time, I don't think; there's so many. But -- 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You answered the 10 question. 11 MR. TOMLINSON: So, in general, they're -- 12 they're much similar in price. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Comparable to what we've had 14 in the past? 15 (Mr. Tomlinson nodded.) 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 17 MS. NEMEC: And I just want to add that we 18 have had a wonderful working relationship with Security 19 State Bank. Very personable. And I like it, 'cause you 20 always see them out at all the community functions, their 21 employees, and they're just a great bank to be with. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Barbara, at your meeting, 23 I don't know if you or Tommy -- or could you really look 24 into just trying to set up more of our payments of our bills 25 direct? I mean, 'cause 55 cents -- I mean, our -- right now 5-23-05 36 1 we're putting a 37-cent stamp on, and that's about to go up, 2 so it's got to be cheaper for us to do it electronically as 3 opposed to doing it -- 4 MS. NEMEC: I know. I want to do all our red 5 checks that we do the 1st of the month -- you know, those 6 are the same amount, and it's all on the 1st of the month. 7 And then there's some quarterly payments that come out of my 8 office that I'd like to set up through them. So -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd like to see us go as 10 much as we can in that direction, 'cause I think it would be 11 a big savings over time for the County. 12 MS. JONES: And in our meeting, we can go 13 over that as well. 14 MS. NEMEC: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move approval of the 16 new depository contract with Security State Bank and Trust. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 19 approval of the award of the depository contract with 20 Security State Bank and Trust pursuant to the bid submitted 21 by that institution. Any further question or discussion? 22 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 23 hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5-23-05 37 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Item 3 3, consider and discuss approval of resolution adopting 4 National Incident Management System. I put this on the 5 agenda. It was forwarded to me by the Emergency Management 6 people over at the city. Bottom line is, to be eligible for 7 future federal funding under the Homeland Security 8 guidelines, this must be adopted. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move approval. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Simple enough? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 13 approval of the resolution. Any question or discussion? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Could we add somewhere 15 in there that we want to protect birds and water? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: I think they'd look at that 17 about like they'd look at it in the corridor. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Only if they're in 19 highway right-of-way. (Laughter.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 21 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 22 your right hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 5-23-05 38 1 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's a good point, 3 Commissioner Baldwin. And the -- our opposition to Trans 4 Texas Corridor may be moot, because we'll never get it built 5 anyhow. Got to protect ruby-throated warbler. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Golden-cheeked -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All you got to do is find 8 a few salamanders out on Buster's old property out there and 9 it'll never get built. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's over. We do have 11 Indian mounds, so it's over. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Only -- the State only 13 makes the counties worry about Indian mounds; they don't 14 have to. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move on to Item 4, 16 consider and discuss advertising and soliciting proposals 17 for bids for county long distance telephone service. I put 18 this on the agenda after I received word from the Auditor 19 that apparently our long distance service has been switched 20 by our current carrier, something's happened to it that 21 makes it considerably more onerous. I'll let him give us 22 the explanation. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: The primary carrier is still 24 Valor, but the last -- the last bill that we received, 25 billing from them was 360-some-odd pages long. And we -- as 5-23-05 39 1 you know, the County has what we call PAC codes for -- for 2 long distance service to where you have to dial in your 3 personal code to -- for long distance so that we have a way 4 to charge each department for their usage. This -- this is 5 a constant problem with -- with our current carrier. So, I 6 -- we've been in contact with -- with another carrier, just 7 to see what is available, and I believe that there's -- that 8 there's a better mousetrap out there. We -- we just can't 9 get any satisfaction in trying to deal with -- with them 10 over this PAC code issue. You can imagine how long it took 11 one of my clerks to go through a bill of that size. You 12 know, I mean, it -- I mean, it was just -- it was a mound of 13 paperwork, and we just can't spend that much time on -- on a 14 billing from one -- you know, one vendor. So -- and besides 15 that, they -- for some unknown reason, they changed our 16 rates from -- I think it was 17 -- from 7 cents a minute to 17 14, and so far we have not been able to get an answer from 18 them as to why. I mean, they've promised us that -- that an 19 answer is forthcoming, so whether that happens or not, we'll 20 have -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tommy, is it -- we're 22 talking telephone -- Kerrville Telephone Company? 23 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes -- well, it's Valor. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I understand. 25 But I just wanted to say that in prior years, when these 5-23-05 40 1 kind of issues came up, I -- I've always been protective of 2 our local telephone company because it was locally owned, 3 and when we ask questions, we could get answers that day. 4 But that is no longer, and I'm no longer here to protect 5 them. I think you need to get the best deal for Kerr 6 County. 7 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, they may resolve the 8 rate issue; I don't know. I can't tell you that they will. 9 But the -- the accounting part of the issue is -- is to the 10 -- at the moment, I don't think it will be resolved. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tommy, when they give you 12 this on your -- the bill, they don't have it broken out by 13 department? They can't sort it for you automatically? 14 MR. TOMLINSON: Half of the -- the PAC codes 15 are wrong. I mean, they -- there are PAC codes that -- that 16 they have on their record that we've never even authorized. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move approval of the 18 request. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to 21 advertise for proposals for bids for county long distance 22 telephone service. Any further question or discussion? All 23 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5-23-05 41 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's 3 move to Item 5, consider and discuss implementing a 4 moratorium on new employments to Kerr County payroll. 5 Commissioner Nicholson? 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Judge, we've -- 7 we've seen that in pure comparison studies, that Kerr County 8 is relatively expensive compared to our peer counties, and 9 there's a high probability that -- that some of that 10 expensiveness is due to staffing. Probably the biggest bill 11 we have in the county budget is -- is personnel costs. We 12 also see -- at least I think we do -- that this budget's 13 going to be a very difficult one. It was going to be very 14 difficult before the Sheriff came in this morning with the 15 bad news that he brought about -- about the jail, and I 16 think we're going to have a hard time financing the county 17 operations we have now. I think it would be prudent that we 18 impose a hiring ban between now and October the 1st so that 19 if we determine that we are unable to fund all of the 20 positions we have in county government now, that -- that the 21 hiring ban could produce an opportunity to right-size while 22 avoiding layoffs and the unpleasantness that's connected 23 with that. So, I want to move that we impose a hiring ban 24 on all positions except uniformed deputies, jailers, and 25 positions in the Juvenile Detention Center that are -- that 5-23-05 42 1 are mandated by law. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Commissioner, you 3 used the word "ban." Do you mean ban, or do you mean 4 freeze? 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Freeze. That 6 there'll be no hirings between now and October 1. It would 7 allow internal transfers; if somebody has an open clerical 8 position and needs to fill it, and can do that by transfer 9 of a current employee without a new hire, then that would be 10 acceptable. The idea is to get in a position between now 11 and October 1st that will give us some flexibility in 12 determining what is the right level of staffing. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm going to -- so we can 14 move on in the discussion, I know there's some elected 15 officials; I anticipate there may be some comments. I want 16 to second the motion so someone can start discussing it. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I would think that -- 18 I like what you're talking about, but I think there's some, 19 probably, legal questions there of the budget that we're 20 under today that we've already approved. I just don't know 21 that we can go back to an elected official and take that 22 money back. I mean, I don't know. I think -- I just think 23 that's a good question. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah, it is. 25 Certainly, that's a good question, Commissioner. And if -- 5-23-05 43 1 if everybody in Kerr County government, elected officials 2 and other department heads, are committed to trying to deal 3 with -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- our cost issues, 6 then it would be a moot issue. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I promised the 9 County Attorney I wouldn't practice law, but I have -- I 10 have looked up and seen whether other counties have done 11 this, and I think the County Attorney might say that the 12 Attorney General is okay with it. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand where 14 you're coming from, and I don't disagree with where you're 15 coming from, 'cause I think we are going to have a difficult 16 budget, and we need to start working on that aspect of it. 17 You know, and certainly our employee group is the largest 18 single element of that budget. I'm wondering, however -- 19 and the County Attorney is sitting back there listening. 20 I'm wondering whether or not this is -- could be construed 21 as an infringement on the prerogative of other elected 22 officials to run their departments as they are 23 constitutionally required to do, so I'm directing that 24 question to you, Mr. County Attorney. 25 MR. EMERSON: I think the answer to that is 5-23-05 44 1 that the Commissioners are responsible for the physical 2 assets of the county, and as such, are allowed to dictate 3 positions, so long as they do not interfere with the elected 4 official's ability to do their constitutional duties. Prime 5 example, I would say, of that would be if -- and I don't 6 mean to pick on Paula; I'm just picking a position, okay? 7 MS. RECTOR: Go ahead. 8 MR. EMERSON: If you have four people 9 dispensing license plates and one person quits, the job 10 could probably still be done with three. Now, would it be a 11 little more inconvenient to the public? Yes. But could she 12 still do her constitutional duty in that? Well, probably, 13 but you'd have to consult with Paula. Now, you can't -- if 14 all four people quit, you couldn't say, well, we're just not 15 going to do license plates any more. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the other -- the 17 comment that I'd like to make -- and I would like to hear 18 from some of the elected officials, what their feelings are 19 on this; I see four of them in here -- five of them with the 20 County Attorney. But my comment is that -- and I was going 21 to put it on our next agenda, and still plan to -- is that 22 we have spent a tremendous amount of money on technology in 23 the last eight years that I've been a Commissioner, and 24 the -- the whole concept of doing that was really -- I mean, 25 the attempt to modernize this county was that it would lead 5-23-05 45 1 to savings on the employment side, that there's -- you could 2 do things more efficiently. I think we now have staff, with 3 Mr. Trolinger, someone who is capable of talking and meeting 4 with each department head and seeing if there is a better 5 way to build that mousetrap for that department, whether 6 it's in, say, you know, Barbara's office, for example, with 7 checks and what we're talking about a little bit with our 8 new banking contract, and having to keep track of employee 9 hours and things of that nature, things that I don't know 10 anything about, and I don't think it's my job to -- I don't 11 want to meddle into their department. 12 But I think that John Trolinger has such a 13 great knowledge of technology that he can meet with the 14 department heads and elected officials and go over and see 15 if there is isn't something that could really be done to 16 make some savings. And I -- you know, I don't know that we 17 have to have a motion and court order to do that, but I am 18 going to put it on the next agenda so we can discuss that 19 with Mr. Trolinger, 'cause I think that really goes 20 hand-in-hand with what Commissioner Nicholson's looking at. 21 And I think that we also need to -- if -- you know, and 22 hopefully elected officials will be open to meeting with Mr. 23 Trolinger about that. And during the budget process, I hope 24 we have input on that discussion and really look at some of 25 our personnel issues, because I think that we -- we have 5-23-05 46 1 done a lot in recent years to try to improve the salary 2 level of most of our employees to make this a more 3 competitive work environment from a salary standpoint. 4 We've spent a lot on technology, and I just think we need to 5 look at the other issue, the staffing levels a little more 6 seriously. I don't think we are necessarily overstaffed 7 significantly. I think there's a lot of things different in 8 our county from some of the other counties that Commissioner 9 Nicholson has compared us to, but I think his numbers 10 clearly mean that we need to look at that very closely this 11 year. I think during the budget process, we should really 12 attempt to do that. So, does -- 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Does any elected official have 14 any -- yes ma'am? 15 MS. RECTOR: I have a question and a comment. 16 With the situation right now, I have just hired another 17 employee who is not due to start until the 6th. And, as you 18 all know, I've had a pretty big turnover in my office, 19 because the workload is tremendous. In 28 years that I've 20 been here, I have one additional employee in 28 years, and I 21 think that says a lot for my office, that we work very 22 diligently in trying to keep our staff down, to keep -- keep 23 the customers happy. Because, you know, we deal with the 24 largest amount of the public than any other office in this 25 county, and bring in the largest amount of money. But not 5-23-05 47 1 only do I collect for Kerr County, but I collect taxes for 2 City of Kerrville, City of Ingram, U.G.R.A., Headwaters, 3 school districts that pay a percentage for me to collect 4 their taxes, which is way more than what my office costs to 5 run, as well as the TexDOT side with vehicle title and 6 registration. My office pretty well pays for itself. But 7 -- and my question is, since my employee has not started, he 8 was just hired, is this going to freeze that where I'm not 9 eligible to hire him, since he has already given his two 10 weeks notice at his previous job? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My feeling would be that 12 this person -- you have a commitment to that employee. 13 MS. RECTOR: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or future employee. 15 MS. RECTOR: Okay. And hopefully the -- my 16 staffing will remain the same. And -- but if it does happen 17 that I lose another employee, it's hard enough to work with 18 the employees that I have with the workload that we have. 19 My Ingram office has just tripled in the amount of traffic 20 that comes through there. My clerk out there did over a 21 million dollars in business last year, and that's a lot for 22 the west end of the county. So -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think a lot of what 24 you're saying, I think you -- I think it probably goes for, 25 you know, the District Clerk, County -- every office. We 5-23-05 48 1 need to know potentially, you know, more about each office 2 and the study, and meet with Mr. Trolinger and see if 3 there's something you can improve on. There may not be any 4 way; you may be doing the most high-tech office that there 5 is, efficient. The fact that you collect taxes for all 6 these other entities may be very different than the survey 7 that he showed. But, anyway, some of that's information 8 that we need to get, 'cause I think -- just think that we're 9 -- we owe the taxpayers a really close look at our staffing 10 levels. 11 MS. RECTOR: I agree. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Ms. Rector. Do you 13 have anything, Ms. Uecker? 14 MS. UECKER: Well -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Never at a loss for words. 16 MS. UECKER: Never at a loss for words. 17 Well, I think, first of all, that, you know, the data that 18 technology can produce is only as good as the person that 19 puts it in there. And I think the fact that, for instance, 20 last year I had a thousand more cases than I did the year 21 before, which is the biggest -- been the biggest increase in 22 I don't know how many years. What you have to look at is, 23 had it not -- was it not for technology, how many additional 24 employees would we have to have? 'Cause the county 25 government is service to the people, and you have to have 5-23-05 49 1 people to serve people. Passports. Since we've taken over 2 the passports, we're getting them from -- from Bexar County, 3 from Atascosa County, from all of Gillespie County's, 4 Kendall County's, Bandera, Junction. We're doing up to 15 5 passports a day, no less than 10. When Thea used to do 6 them, Thea was doing three a month. We're doing 15 a day, 7 so that has taken one employee almost all day long just 8 approving those. And we've been commended by the -- the 9 federal government for catching potential fraud, so, you 10 know, we're doing an excellent job, and we're real proud of 11 that. 12 The only question I would have is, you know, 13 I've given up an employee and a half in the last couple of 14 years. Still haven't seen those increases in the other one 15 because of it, but, you know, that -- that's another story. 16 The only problem that I might see is, I think there needs to 17 be some mechanism whereby -- let's say if I had an employee 18 die and two quit, you know, we'd be shut down. Just like 19 today, I've got three judges in court. Three judges in 20 court today. So, you know, that takes -- and on pretrial 21 days, it takes two deputy clerks in the courtroom for Judge 22 Ables' court because of the way he runs them through. And 23 -- and I'm training another one to take over Carrie's 24 position in there, because she's doing nothing but 25 passports, so I've had to take her out of that. So, you 5-23-05 50 1 know, just so that there's some emergency provisions where 2 we can replace -- emergency, where we can, you know, replace 3 those that we can't do without. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Sure. We have to do 5 that. What we're trying to do here, Ms. Uecker, is just 6 bring some temporary discipline to the process to make sure 7 that we don't put ourselves in a bind of putting people on, 8 then come along October 1 saying we've got too many people. 9 So, I -- we certainly shouldn't do something stupid that 10 would hamper our ability to accomplish our mission. If that 11 case happens, you'll -- you'll be able to do -- handle your 12 constitutional duties. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I this Ms. Uecker 14 makes a good point. We're two-thirds through the budget 15 year right now, and I think perhaps we're talking about 16 freezing or restricting additional hiring so that 17 departments don't continue to add personnel as opposed to 18 giving department heads/elected officials unfettered right 19 to fill the vacancies that need to be filled so that they 20 can perform the services. I think there is a true 21 distinction there between the two, and Ms. Uecker makes that 22 point. I think we have to be pretty careful about how we 23 approach it. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the -- I think 25 having these discussions, and we'll have them a little bit 5-23-05 51 1 more in-depth during the budget process, is very beneficial, 2 because I think it explains to the public, you know, why our 3 taxes are high and, you know, what the service -- what we 4 actually -- you know, in all the different departments, 5 what's being done. You know, I think the more we can 6 discuss this in the public, the better it is for all elected 7 officials, and ourselves included. 8 MS. UECKER: And I -- you know, and I don't 9 want to come across as being opposed to it. I just -- you 10 know, except for I just want there to be some language in it 11 that will help us to replace vital employees. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There are some 13 departments that can come nearer absorbing a force reduction 14 than others. A smaller department with four or five, six or 15 eight or ten employees may have a more difficult time 16 absorbing that reduction than a -- than a department such as 17 Road and Bridge, for example, where there are 25 or 30 18 employees. They can absorb that reduction and not -- and 19 not have a great deal of impact. But some smaller 20 departments have an impact. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Ms. Uecker. Is 22 there any other elected official or citizen that wishes to 23 be heard on this? 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It did exempt the jail 25 from filling current positions, correct? 5-23-05 52 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Thank you. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: If you said can the 4 -- can you continue to hire jailers, the answer is yes, to 5 fill -- to fill vacancies. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's the staffing 7 mandated by the State. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, I think that was the 10 criteria. Yes, ma'am? 11 MS. HARRIS: I just needed to -- to clarify. 12 One way that we try to be more efficient and cost-effective 13 is by hiring a small pool of maybe four or five part-time 14 employees. Part-time employees do not get benefits, but 15 they do go through the same training as the full-time 16 J.D.O.'s. As you know, the turnover at the facility is 17 quite high. Whenever we have a full-time J.D.O. that 18 leaves, for whatever reason, due to termination or leaving 19 of their own free volition, we fill those full-time 20 positions with the already trained part-time positions, 21 which is more cost-effective, and it also gets a person in 22 there that's already certified to fill that State-mandated 23 position, so I would like to be able to continue to have a 24 small part-time pool. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: You're filling these positions 5-23-05 53 1 to comply with state mandates, are you not? 2 MS. HARRIS: Yes. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, under the motion, you're 4 -- you would be exempt. Any hirings you're required to do 5 under state mandate, staffing ratios, would not -- it 6 wouldn't be applicable to you. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Anything mandated by the 8 State in those staffing levels, and the Sheriff's 9 Department, are exempt. Everything but clerical that are 10 not required; you know, same as all other departments. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have one more 12 question. Commissioner, give us your sense of that last 13 line that talks about department heads would be able to fill 14 vacancies by transfers. In other words, hiring from within. 15 How do you see that, as opposed to what Ms. Uecker just -- I 16 mean, Ms. -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Harris. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The Tax Assessor just 19 said. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, for -- it ties 21 into what one of the Commissioners said earlier; that -- 22 that the smaller departments don't have near as much 23 flexibility as some of the others. If one of our clerks in 24 the J.P. office quits, we probably -- we can't go on without 25 filling that job, so if that occurred and that J.P. was able 5-23-05 54 1 to -- to transfer somebody from the Juvenile Detention 2 Facility or the clerk's office or something, that would be a 3 way of filling that without -- while avoiding a new hire. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But what if there 5 wasn't a transfer available or somebody from another 6 department to do that? What then? 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think we authorize 8 a new hire. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It comes to the Court, 10 though. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. I would be 12 willing to delegate that decision to the County Judge. 13 Somebody could come to him and say -- 14 (Judge Tinley shook his head negatively.) 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't think the 16 County Judge wants that. 17 MS. UECKER: Why wouldn't you just leave that 18 clause out? Because, I mean, if you're going to put an 19 emergency provision in there, I mean, that wouldn't be 20 necessary. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- the way I read 22 that provision was that if Paula had an employee quit, and 23 then -- and the person that wanted to fill that spot was out 24 of your office, that change could take place, but then you'd 25 be short one and you couldn't fill yours. 5-23-05 55 1 MS. UECKER: Right. Then we're talking 2 about -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: And come to the Court. 4 MS. UECKER: Yeah. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 6 MS. UECKER: So why have that in there? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, you'd have to come 8 to the Court instead of Paula. I don't -- you know, doesn't 9 make that much difference to me, that provision. 10 MS. UECKER: Well, because you've already 11 said that, you know, that it's not -- it's going to be 12 implied that it's not to add staff, but you're still going 13 to be able to replace the staff. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The way I understand, you 15 cannot replace without coming to the Court, but an employee 16 of yours could transfer to any other department without 17 coming to the Court. But then if you -- if you wanted to go 18 outside of the current county pool to fill the slot, you 19 have to come back to the Court and get that approval. 20 MS. UECKER: See, and I would be opposed to 21 that, because what's going to happen is, if I have an 22 opening, I know that I can fill that position if I can get 23 someone to transfer, but I can't just hire someone who may 24 be more qualified off the street, so that's a little bit 25 prejudicial, I think. 5-23-05 56 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Good point. 2 MS. UECKER: So if I can talk someone out of 3 Paula's office into coming to mine, they may not be as 4 qualified as someone that has come in and applied for the 5 job, but, hey, I can get past it if I can get somebody to 6 transfer. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Good point. Good point. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have no problems with 9 taking out that last provision. But -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that acceptable, 11 Commissioner? 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Sure. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 14 discussion on the motion? All in favor of that motion, 15 signify by raising your right hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We 20 have a timed item that was scheduled at 10 o'clock; we're a 21 bit past that now, to receive and open bids on Kerrville 22 South Wastewater Project, Phases II and III. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have one. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Appears that we have -- 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: More than we had last 5-23-05 57 1 time. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Appears that we have one bid. 3 We have one bid that's been submitted by Lupe Rubio 4 Construction, Incorporated from Kingsland, Texas. The base 5 bid is $805,898.65. 270 calendar day completion date. 6 Various unit prices enumerated on the bid. Bid bond is 7 attached. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would move that we 9 refer the bid to the project engineer, Kamran Kaviani, for 10 review and recommendation. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 13 acceptance of the bid and referral to the project engineer 14 for review and recommendation. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What was it, 805,000? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 805,898. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What was the grant 18 amount? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That exceeds the 20 grant amount. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, do you recall what 22 the grant -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think it was 750. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll double-check it, 5-23-05 58 1 but I think that's right. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 3 discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion, 4 signify by raising your right hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's 9 move to Item 7, consider and discuss the design and 10 construction of a parallel taxiway at City of Kerrville/Kerr 11 County Airport. Commissioner Letz. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I put this on the agenda. 13 This is a -- it's a resolution. I'll go over it briefly and 14 see if Commissioner Williams has any comments, and Dave 15 Pearce with the airport is here, the Airport Manager. I 16 think Ilse Bailey's here probably for this item as well. 17 MS. BAILEY: Yes, sir. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We've discussed for a 19 number of years about this project coming about. It's been 20 on the drawing board, and the time has come for us to make 21 somewhat of a commitment to it. And the required -- it has 22 to come to the Court, Airport Board, and the City based on 23 the resolution that's been requested by TexDOT to approve. 24 Quickly, what it is is the main runway is -- the taxiway -- 25 existing taxiway is to be relocated out of the grant, and it 5-23-05 59 1 currently is in bad shape. It needs to be redone, in any 2 event. One of the long-term goals has been to get I.L.S. at 3 our airport. This is a step in getting there. You need to 4 have the taxiway completely relocated to get the I.L.S. 5 system. The project is large. It's a $6.6 million project 6 we've done over three years. The first part of it is in 7 this year's budget, and it's budgeted dollars of $92,117. 8 That's for the engineering. Then the balance will be split 9 between the 2005-2006 and 2006-2007 budget years as 10 approximately $275,000 each of those years, just slightly 11 more in the second year, and that is the amount for each the 12 County and the City. It is a big, big nut, a lot of money 13 that we're obligating. 14 The resolution does have an out from the 15 standpoint of it's -- as to, you know, it's a commitment of 16 the funds based on us -- our ability to budget for it, so 17 there is an out there, but I think the intent clearly is 18 that it's as close as you can get to an obligation in 19 several future years as you can get. TexDOT needs this 20 before they can fund it. The fact that they are funding it 21 says a whole lot about our airport and what they think of 22 our airport. A lot of people are trying to get this money, 23 and Dave can probably announce that this is a huge portion 24 of their annual budget coming into our airport. It's 25 something that I'm certainly in support of. The Airport 5-23-05 60 1 Board has voted for this and is in support of this as well. 2 Commissioner Williams, do you have any comments? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just to weigh in on 4 it and say that I, too, support it, because it is important 5 and vital to the progress of the airport. And for those who 6 fail to recognize, this airport truly is an economic 7 generator for Kerr County and the City of Kerrville, and to 8 do otherwise in terms of improvements I think would be 9 neglectful. For many years we've struggled along with the 10 airport being just a small community airport. The reality 11 is, it's more than that, and it has great potential to be 12 even -- even better than what it is currently today. If we 13 are to have an instrument landing system, which is on the 14 drawing board and is a necessity, then this is a 15 prerequisite to getting that done. There's been a lot of -- 16 lot of progress made in terms of leasing airport property. 17 I want to commend Mr. Pearce for his efforts in that regard. 18 And not only have we got a lot of it leased, but we have 19 others that are going to be leasing additional property that 20 have made inquiries about that. 21 I think it's -- I think it's also important 22 to note that the largest part of our economic engine out 23 there comes from Mooney Aircraft, and Mooney Aircraft is -- 24 is doing much, much, much better than we have ever been able 25 to report in the past, with their employee -- their work 5-23-05 61 1 force somewhat in the vicinity of 300-plus people working 2 two shifts and turning out 85 to -- between 85 and 100 3 aircraft a year. That's a signal improvement over where 4 it's been in the past, so this is major. I would point out 5 also that the first part of this obligation on the part of 6 the City and the County is -- is contained in the current 7 budget year. The 92,000 is already part of the existing 8 budget which Commissioners Court funded when we approved the 9 budget, as did the City of Kerrville Council do the same 10 thing. So, in discussion about this with the Airport Board 11 in the past, we've talked about how this could be bifurcated 12 and legitimately and realistically put into multiple budget 13 years, and TexDOT has agreed to that, 'cause they understand 14 how county budgets and city budgets come about. Theirs 15 comes about the same way as well. So, I heartily support 16 it; I think it's a plus for Kerr County, and I think we 17 should move forward on it. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One comment, if I may, 19 before I turn it over to Mr. Pearce. I think I misspoke 20 slightly on the dollar amount. It comes out to -- I'll 21 round it off -- to about $135,000 the next budget year for 22 the City and the County each, not 276 each. It's 135,000 23 each. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Then next budget year, 5-23-05 62 1 it's about 145,000 each. So, it's -- basically, we're 2 trying to split it between those two years fairly closely. 3 Mr. Pearce, do you have any additional comments, or -- 4 MR. PEARCE: Yes, sir, thank you. Judge 5 Tinley and Commissioners of the court, Kerrville continues 6 to be a major player in the airport and the transportation 7 system. I might call your attention back to an economic 8 impact study that was done by Wilbur Smith approximately two 9 years ago where the airport alone generated some $30 million 10 in economic impact to the community alone. In addition, 11 there was about 544 jobs that have been generated out of 12 that. I think we continue to be a major player in the 13 transportation system. The budget for TexDOT is 14 approximately $28 million per year. They're looking at 15 committing over $6 million for this, so that's a quarter of 16 their budget. I think that says a lot. I think the other 17 thing, too, that is really nice about this, it is a big 18 chunk of money, but 90 percent of that is paid by the feds. 19 Locally, 10 percent is split up between the County and the 20 City. That's 5 percent each. So, we get a six -- 21 $6.6 million project for 10 cents on the dollar. It is a 22 lot of money, but it goes into something that will generate 23 more of an economic impact to the community. With that, if 24 there's any questions? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just -- only one other 5-23-05 63 1 comment, Dave. And I can't remember the magazine, but I was 2 showing hopefully a prospective customer to build a hangar 3 out there. Dave and I met last Friday -- Thursday, and they 4 were all abuzz, this person I was showing around and Dave, 5 about the Kerrville airport being on the front page of a -- 6 of a national airport-type magazine. Could you go over that 7 briefly? 8 MR. PEARCE: Airport Business News is a 9 publication that primarily targets airport management and 10 also for FBO's. We were fortunate enough that the 11 individual dropped in, took a look at Kerrville, looking at 12 some of the things that we were doing, and ended up putting 13 us on the front page of the magazine, things that were 14 happening in Kerrville alone. I feel very humbled by the -- 15 the types of folks that are on there. The month before, it 16 was the airport manager from Dallas. Before that, it was 17 from LAX, Los Angeles, and here's Kerrville. Rather shocked 18 when it came out, and very humbled. But it's really nice, 19 because that is a major publication. It does go throughout 20 all of the airports in the United States, and here's 21 Kerrville, and I got a number of calls on that. It's in all 22 the FBO's and all the various -- where the pilots are 23 looking at it, and that says a lot for what we're doing. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I know it was big news to 25 the gentleman that I was showing around with Mr. Pearce. He 5-23-05 64 1 was quite impressed that had happened. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, Mayor pro-tem 3 Smith is back there. He also serves on the Airport Board. 4 He may have a comment. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Gene, would you like to come 6 forward and tell us your thoughts on this? 7 MR. SMITH: That's three of us. That doesn't 8 violate Open Meetings, does it? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Takes one more. 10 MR. SMITH: It takes one more? Well, I'd be 11 the last one to violate a law. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But you're in the 13 public right here; you're in the public eye. 14 MR. SMITH: You know, the City is in favor of 15 this project. It will have a great economic impact on this 16 area, and I would recommend that -- that you approve this. 17 Our little airport has -- has a potential of growing very 18 much. Mooney Aviation is -- is a revenue generator for this 19 area, and gets our city publication all -- publicity all 20 over the country, and probably all over the world. So, we 21 would -- I would personally recommend that you approve this, 22 as I will the other Councilmen. Thank you. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I've got a couple 25 questions for my understanding. What we have here is a 5-23-05 65 1 runway that's in disrepair. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Taxiway. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Taxiway. And that 4 needs to be taken care of, so we're going to do that by 5 creating a -- a better -- a longer taxiway? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What we're doing, 7 basically, we're moving the taxiway 150 -- 150 feet? How 8 many feet? 9 MR. PEARCE: It's 150 feet -- 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 150. 11 MR. PEARCE: -- to the north, which would be 12 on the parallel side. Either way, Mr. Nicholson, the -- the 13 condition of the existing taxiway is beyond service, and it 14 either needed to be totally dug out, new base and new 15 taxiway, or relocate it. This relocation will accommodate 16 for future development on approaches and that. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And this is a step 18 toward qualifying for an I.L.S.? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. The current 20 taxiway is too close to the runway. It's a dangerous 21 situation, so the whole taxiway is being moved 150 feet 22 towards the road that goes around towards Dugosh Aviation. 23 It will require that road to be relocated in part, and it 24 will also require that -- I believe, that the T-hangars in 25 front of Dugosh will come out. 5-23-05 66 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And some property 2 acquisition. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And some property 4 acquisition. That will be handled by TexDOT, not by us. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Does this project 6 have anything to do with allowing the airport to handle 7 larger aircraft? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This -- well, the taxiway 9 right now is a real problem for larger aircraft in the 10 current condition. I think, in and of itself, it doesn't, 11 but once you get into the I.L.S., and it's kinds of a step 12 in getting us to handle more and larger aircraft, and doing 13 it safer as well. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We don't have any 15 aspirations for establishing commercial airline service? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think so. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That question was 18 asked to me yesterday by one of our -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If somebody wanted -- 20 that's not the reason for this at all. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If somebody wanted to 23 come in and try it, you know, that's free enterprise; let 24 them try. But it's more a -- I don't think that's on the 25 horizon. Certainly not a reason for doing this, in my mind. 5-23-05 67 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Just one other 2 comment. You know, it's easier for me, you know, to have 3 confidence in a proposal like this than it was a year or two 4 ago. I think this new way of managing our airport is -- is 5 more professional, more confidence-building than -- than in 6 the past, so thank you for that. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with your last 8 statement. I have more confidence in what's going on. The 9 only -- my only question is -- and I'm going to vote for 10 this, but I -- I question us committing future budgets. 11 We've been told in here numerous times that you simply can't 12 do that. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree with you, and I 14 think you're right. And I think there is an out clause, and 15 if we don't budget it, we're under no obligation. I think 16 the resolution clearly says that. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's in the 18 "Whereas." Commissioner, I agree with you that if something 19 had to be dealt with -- and we did deal with it by 20 instructing Mr. Pearce to go back to TexDOT to rework the 21 resolution, which was done. But it's in the "Whereas" where 22 it talks about fiscal year '06 and '07, "contingent upon 23 approval of their respective budgets," both the City and the 24 County. If it doesn't get approved, it doesn't get funded. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Also Sections Four and Five in 5-23-05 68 1 the actual operative language of that resolution. The 2 language in both of those is, "contingent upon budget 3 approval in those years." 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, exactly. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: So it's in all respects 6 contingent upon -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Rex, I'm going to vote 8 for this thing, and if I get thrown in jail, I like pecan 9 pie. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There won't be room, 11 Buster. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, there's no room. 13 That's right. Don't worry about it. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll move approval of the 15 resolution. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 18 approval of the resolution. Any further question or 19 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 20 your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Now 25 would probably be a good opportunity to take about a 5-23-05 69 1 15-minute recess. 2 (Recess taken from 10:22 a.m. to 10:40 a.m.) 3 - - - - - - - - - - 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's come back to 5 order, if we might. Let's move to Item 8, report on the 6 Juvenile Detention Facility salaries. Commissioner Baldwin? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. You 8 remember a couple of months ago, you asked Commissioner 9 Williams and I to take a -- take a peek under the hood and 10 -- and report back to you, I think at this very meeting that 11 we're here, and so here we are and we're ready to do that. 12 Commissioner Williams and I met with Mrs. Harris and 13 Mrs. Nemec a couple of weeks ago, and it really wasn't as 14 big a mountain as I thought it was going to be. It was a 15 fairly -- fairly simple because of the fact, if you remember 16 in our last budget session, we agreed that the -- there 17 would be no employees below Grade 12, so that fixed a lot of 18 things. So, Commissioner Williams, do you have anything to 19 say at this point? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, go ahead. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. If you'll go to 22 this document right here with us, we're just going to go 23 through there, go through each one of these at kind of a 24 quick pace, 'cause there's really nothing to talk about, 25 except when you get down to the control operators, you see 5-23-05 70 1 that they are 10-1's. Well, they need to go to 12-1 because 2 of a -- by the way, an unwritten policy, which we need to 3 get written. And the same thing with the cooks. They're at 4 11's, and they need to go to 12's. Now, before we get on 5 down into it, Mrs. Harris, I think, has a couple of comments 6 to make. She's wanting to do some shifting around, and so 7 I've asked her -- would you like to do that? 8 MS. HARRIS: Sure. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've asked her if she 10 would like to come and tell you all what her plan is there, 11 and it's just shifting a few people around. I think it's a 12 pretty good plan, actually. 13 MS. HARRIS: What -- what I had come up 14 with -- and, as it's turned out, due to a change in the 15 clerical arena at the facility, it has given me the 16 opportunity to do some of the changing, which doesn't affect 17 the salaries at all, in order to streamline the number of 18 J.D.O.'s. I don't know if you remember that I mentioned 19 quite some time ago that I -- the shift supervisors, control 20 operators, and the male J.D.O.'s are on 12-hour shifts, 21 because your ratio can be slightly less, the number of 22 employees that you need. You can still maintain ratio, but 23 the number of employees you can reduce, but my female 24 J.D.O.'s were not. Well, starting June 1, my female 25 J.D.O.'s will be on 12-hour shifts, which reduces that 5-23-05 71 1 number from nine to eight, required number of females that I 2 need. As it so happens, one of the clerical positions has 3 become vacant, and the ninth J.D.O. female that I would no 4 longer need is going to slide right into that clerical 5 position, and I won't have to hire anybody any differently. 6 One -- some of the other changes that I have 7 proposed is in the kitchen, by changing some of the 8 personnel in the kitchen to require certification, like food 9 service manager, because the City does require that we have 10 to have a certified food service manager on-site at all 11 times during -- while the food is being prepared. That is 12 stated -- excuse me, City Health. That person would be 13 required -- the head cook would be required to have a food 14 service certification. We talked about the job title. 15 Rather than Administrative Assistant, the two individuals 16 that take care of our human resources and our clerical 17 duties out there, we discovered in our discussions with 18 Commissioner Williams and Commissioner Baldwin that they do 19 not really meet the criteria for the job description of 20 administrative assistant, nor does their salary reflect 21 that. The duties that they have, to -- to keep the 22 receptionist, we would reclassify her as receptionist; her 23 salary would stay the same. The second individual would be 24 classified as an administrative secretary, and she would 25 take care of all the human resources, and plus I would also 5-23-05 72 1 give her the -- the extended job duty of billing. That 2 person would do all the personnel management, payroll, and 3 the billing. That person would have to do all of that. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Which -- is that that 5 25-1 slot? 6 MS. HARRIS: I don't have a copy of what -- 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Under Support Staff. 8 MS. HARRIS: No, sir. No, sir. I believe 9 that's my training officer, if I'm not mistaken. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So this position you're 11 talking about, then, is a -- 12 MS. HARRIS: That's what they're looking at? 13 MS. NEMEC: I think. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: 17, I guess. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The 17-4? 16 MS. HARRIS: Let me see. 17-4 is my training 17 officer. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 17-4 is training? 19 MS. HARRIS: Yes. And she also takes care of 20 all the N.S.L.P. paperwork, and she is also one of our 21 certified food service managers. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And then the 25-1 was the 23 position you were talking about? The human resources and 24 billing and all that? 25 MS. HARRIS: Let me -- the 12-2. The 12-2 5-23-05 73 1 was her, under Support Staff. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Is that classified 3 right? I got a slight head shake, no. 4 MS. NEMEC: It -- I mean, if she's moving -- 5 if she's thinking of moving them around to where she's going 6 to be human resources and billing and all that, then I -- at 7 a 12, I wouldn't think that would be classified right. And 8 we talked about that also. 9 MS. HARRIS: Right. We classified -- 10 MS. NEMEC: Of moving them, giving this 11 position more duties, more responsibilities, but also 12 compensating them to get someone qualified enough to do 13 that. 14 MS. HARRIS: That 12-2 would become a 17-1. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're going to see 16 this in a more clear way during the budget process. 17 MS. HARRIS: Right. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're going to lay it 19 down side by side for you. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So I don't need to ask 21 all these questions right now? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You can go back to 23 sleep. (Laughter.) 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: All these steps and 25 grades are there now, Commissioner? What is in place now, 5-23-05 74 1 correct? Commissioner Baldwin? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm sorry? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: All of these -- all 4 of these that we see on this sheet are what is currently in 5 place? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That is correct. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And there will be 8 some changes. 9 MS. HARRIS: Yes. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And at budget, there will 11 be some changes. 12 MS. HARRIS: Yes. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We'll be readjusting some 14 of these. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Exactly. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is to get us through 17 this year? 18 MS. HARRIS: Yes. 19 MS. NEMEC: That information -- Judy provided 20 that information from our payroll records. That's where 21 that came from. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is what we 23 worked off of out there the other day. 24 MS. HARRIS: Yes, sir. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 5-23-05 75 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Ms. Harris, you've 2 got three classifications -- J.D.O., shift supervisor, and 3 control operator -- that are working 12-hour shifts? 4 MS. HARRIS: Yes, sir. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Is that four shifts 6 one week and then three shifts the next week? 7 MS. HARRIS: That's, like, working 6 a.- 6 p. 8 for three days, off three days, coming back and working 9 6 p. - 6 a. for four days, off two days. It's a rotating 10 shift like that. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Calendar week. One 12 week you'll work 36 hours, the next week 48 hours. 13 MS. HARRIS: That's correct, but it works out 14 to 160 hours a month. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. How many 16 J.D.O.'s -- how many are on a shift? How many warm bodies 17 are on a shift? 18 MS. HARRIS: There are four J.D.O.'s. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: On each shift? 20 MS. HARRIS: On each shift. Two males, two 21 females. 'Cause we have to take care of two separate 22 populations, the pre's and the posts. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: How many shift 24 supervisors on a shift? 25 MS. HARRIS: There are two, which are counted 5-23-05 76 1 in the ratio. We have to count them in the ratio in order 2 to maintain ratio. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thank you. 4 MS. HARRIS: Mm-hmm. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, what do we need to do 6 here? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is just for 8 information only, isn't it? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, it is. 10 MS. HARRIS: Yes. And also, the maintenance 11 person would no longer be in my budget. That maintenance 12 personnel would be under Kerr County's Maintenance 13 Department. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's now, or after? 15 MS. HARRIS: Will be. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: In the future. 17 MS. HARRIS: Yes. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: October 1. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 20 MS. HARRIS: Yes. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're deleting 22 maintenance out of there and putting it where it's really 23 supposed to be. 24 MS. HARRIS: Yes. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's consistent 5-23-05 77 1 with what we do for the jail. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 3 MS. HARRIS: Yes, right. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, did you get 5 through all of it? 6 MS. HARRIS: Yes. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I did kind of go into 8 a coma there for a minute. 9 MS. HARRIS: Yes, sir, I did. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you very much. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: But J.D.O.'s are 12 going to be reduced from 17 total to 16 total? 13 MS. HARRIS: Yes. Yes, sir, which that's 14 already occurred. We've already done that, or it will 15 become effective June 1. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Then we get to the -- 18 it's administration salaries, and this is my comment. You 19 know, it's nothing new. I've met with Ms. Harris and with 20 Bill and told them how I feel and what I think about it, so 21 it's -- you know, I'm not blindsiding anybody when I say 22 that I feel like that both of those salaries are way, way, 23 way too high. I've added another sheet in here with the 24 elected officials' salaries, including the County Clerk, 25 District Clerk, Treasurer, Tax Assessor, the Sheriff, chief 5-23-05 78 1 deputy, et cetera, and so forth and so on. And you can -- 2 you can see that the administration -- both administration 3 employees out there are ahead of all the elected officials, 4 including the Sheriff, including the chief deputy, and it's 5 my opinion that they should not be. You know, I -- I think 6 that their salaries could be somewhere in the neighborhood 7 of the Jail Administrator, somewhere in -- in that range. 8 But I just don't -- I think we pay them -- the salary there 9 is too high compared to the rest of our elected officials 10 and employees. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are we having a 12 discussion on this now? Or are we going to -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. I've said it; 14 it's on the table. Y'all get after it. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I look at it 16 as -- you know, I think the -- looking at it as a whole, 17 both of those spots is too high. I'm not -- I think the 18 35-5 spot may be slightly too high. I think that position 19 is higher than a jail administrator, as I understand what 20 that position entails, but I think -- I think -- you know, I 21 don't have a real heartburn with the 65,163, which is the -- 22 you know, Becky's salary. I don't have as much problem with 23 that as I do the 54,000 one, as I understand, the 24 second-in-charge out there. And I think that that's kind of 25 -- I need to know more about what the duties are and how 5-23-05 79 1 they -- what that workload is for those two positions. And 2 we can discuss it now or during the budget process; doesn't 3 make that much difference to me, but -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I think it 5 should be in the budget process. I'm just trying to bring 6 it in here to get your ears in tune and get you, you know, 7 to start thinking about it. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, in my -- since 9 Ms. Harris is here, I guess my question is, why do we need 10 two administrators? To me -- you know, and that's just -- 11 there may be a reason. But when we get into the budget, 12 that's going to be what my question is going to be, why we 13 have two spots out there; why can't we just have one. 14 But -- and how that is answered would go back as to whether 15 the levels are too high or not, in my mind. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, this is the 17 first time we've looked at the operation in the open. 18 Heretofore, it had been looked at by the Juvenile Board, and 19 those salaries were set in that -- by that body. There are 20 disparities; we've noted that. There are things that need 21 to be corrected, and we've noted that, or will note that in 22 the budget time. But I also think, while you're looking at 23 comparisons, you also have to look at educational 24 qualifications as well, and educational qualifications play 25 a role in this in terms of what the State requires. Not 5-23-05 80 1 what Kerr County Commissioners Court requires or the 2 Juvenile Board requires, but what the State requires in 3 terms of the educational requirements for a facility 4 administrator and so forth. So, you know, the fact that the 5 number was set by someone else doesn't make it good or bad, 6 but I think when we start analyzing it, we need to analyze 7 all the factors, not the least of which is the educational 8 component. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Which the -- the 10 position requires a degree. 11 MS. HARRIS: Yes, sir. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: College degree is 13 required in the facility administrator. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's part of what I 15 think we need to have presented during the -- 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Exactly. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- budget period. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, that's it. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not from me. That's 21 it. Commissioner Williams? I didn't -- 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, you covered it. 23 Thank you. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have nothing else. 5-23-05 81 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good. Thank you. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Do we have any -- are we 3 developing some data concerning comparable positions in 4 similar type facilities with similar type qualifications? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. Yes, sir, 6 we're in that process. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Type of service and all that? 8 I think that would be helpful. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, it will be, and 10 we will present that in the budget process. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything further on 12 this item? Let's move on, then, to Item Number 9, discuss 13 and consider authorizing the sale of the Kerr County 14 Juvenile Detention Facility. Commissioner Baldwin. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir, thank you. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Didn't know you had a buyer. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I don't think 18 that we do yet, but I would certainly hope that we would 19 take a -- take a look out there and see if there maybe could 20 be one. We -- up to date, we have spent of the taxpayers' 21 money close to $3 million to finish out this year. Next 22 year's budget request is $2.6 million more. And, you know, 23 I look at that and I look at the number of local youth that 24 goes through there, and every time I ask the question, "How 25 many Kerr County kids do we have out there?" and it's 5-23-05 82 1 usually the number four. And that's a little bit expensive, 2 I think, for four people, is my opinion. And so, you know, 3 I understand that patience is a virtue. I understand that. 4 But I -- I saw Senator Cornyn on TV the other day, and he 5 says there comes a time when patience is no longer a virtue, 6 and I think I am rapidly approaching that -- that attitude. 7 That I know we need to have patience and wait, and that this 8 thing's going to turn around and do well. This is just a 9 little bit too expensive for me. And so, with that in mind, 10 I move that we authorize Commissioner Nicholson and the 11 County Attorney to advertise and negotiate the sale of the 12 Juvenile Detention Facility. 13 (Laughter.) 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: County Attorney just 15 got re -- I mean, just got elected; he may not mind doing 16 that. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, I didn't realize 18 he was still in here. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I got some questions 20 -- well, I'll second that so I can ask some questions. How 21 much did you say that budget is for next year? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 2.6 and some change. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And that's net of 24 revenues? That's cost less revenues? Or -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm just looking at 5-23-05 83 1 the -- 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's net of 3 revenues. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- requested number. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: 2.6 million green 6 dollars. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We don't have the 8 revenue figure cranked into that. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: No, that's gross. Gross. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Gross. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Gross expenditure. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Of course -- 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Gross, not net. 14 MS. HARRIS: That's for both buildings, by 15 the way. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Do we have a 17 forecast of census we expect for next year? My real 18 question is, when are we going to get to the break-even 19 point? Never? 20 AUDIENCE: Not ever. 21 MS. HARRIS: I've only been able to solicit 22 new counties to come on board since January, so I've only 23 been at this, like, for about four months. That population 24 has steadily increased, even when Level 5 money has been 25 expended, and that ran out in March. We are still steadily 5-23-05 84 1 getting more kids in. Our population has increased on a 2 steadily basis since January, and we are steadily increasing 3 bringing on new counties. We're in the negotiating stages 4 right now with El Paso. If El Paso comes on board, we will 5 get several kids out of El Paso. Break-even, Commissioner 6 Nicholson, I wish I could look in my crystal ball and tell 7 you. At this point in time, I can't. We are in the slump 8 part of the year, but we're still getting kids, and that 9 is -- that is a feat in and of itself. Remarkable. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: If we were at 11 capacity, would the revenues equal the costs? 12 MS. HARRIS: With 76 kids? No sir. You'll 13 be about a hundred -- 130-some-odd thousand dollars deficit. 14 And that was a projection that I brought to you back in the 15 fall in three separate budgets. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My question -- my comment 17 on this is, you know, I think that I've always been willing 18 to entertain an offer. And I think we were hoping -- we -- 19 there were some that were floating around about six months 20 ago that we were hoping would come to fruition and we would 21 receive a firm offer, which we never did. And I -- you 22 know, the purpose of the agenda item is to let the public 23 know that if somebody wants to buy it, we're certainly -- 24 I'm certainly, as a commissioner, willing to listen, and 25 listen to an offer and look at an offer seriously. I think 5-23-05 85 1 the way -- I can't support the motion the way it was made, 2 because I think that's going to do -- go -- have the 3 opposite effect. I think if we go out and solicit and 4 publicly say -- you know, and solicit bids, that we're 5 putting it out for bids, I think that's -- if I was a 6 county, I would then not want to put my kids over here, 7 'cause I'd think that it was in jeopardy again. I think 8 we've done a lot in the past four or five months to try to 9 stabilize the situation and get the place going, and I think 10 this motion would do the contrary at this point in time, so 11 I can't support this motion. I would support a motion, you 12 know, just to put everyone on the record that, you know, we 13 would be glad to receive bids; if somebody wants to buy it, 14 we'd be glad to entertain it. I'd be glad to do that in a 15 motion. But I can't support a motion where we go out and 16 advertise for sale, 'cause I don't know how do you that, 17 'cause you have to declare it surplus to do that, and then I 18 think you're really under it. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I receive your 20 chastisement with -- with an open heart, and I appreciate 21 you saying that. But I am really tired of us worrying about 22 other counties and worrying about banks and worrying about 23 lawyers in New York and worrying about all that other crap 24 when we have taxpayers right here in this county that we 25 are -- are just raping with this issue. So, you know, I 5-23-05 86 1 receive your chastisement about what other counties think; 2 however, I really don't care what other counties thinks. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think it's 4 chastisement. My point is that we're trying to minimize the 5 red ink out there, and I think this motion increases the red 6 ink. It hurts the local taxpayers more, and -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- and so I'm not in 9 favor of -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm offering a way to 11 fix the local taxpayers. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let me see if I can 13 characterize it. If we shut it down and -- and sent our 14 four or five children out of county, wouldn't our costs go 15 down? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. Yes, sir. 18 You have a whole bunch of employees out there and a lot of 19 electricity that costs a lot of money. And these other 20 counties -- yes, they do pay a per diem, but it doesn't come 21 anywhere near paying for our -- the staff. The Kerr County 22 taxpayers are subsidizing other counties, is what we're 23 doing. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Tommy, how much is 25 our debt service annual cost on that 1.9 or 2 million 5-23-05 87 1 dollars? What's it cost us annually to service that debt? 2 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't remember what the 3 amortization is. I'd have to look that up. We haven't made 4 a payment yet, so I -- 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You'll know after 6 the first payment, huh? 7 MR. TOMLINSON: I have the material. I just 8 don't know. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let me weigh in on 10 it. I agree with Commissioner Letz that such a motion might 11 be counterproductive. If we shut it down, you don't have 12 anything to sell. You got the -- you got buildings 13 engineered for detention with no particular operation, so I 14 think it is counterproductive. I don't disagree with 15 Commissioner Baldwin in an effort to find a way to get the 16 burden off Kerr County taxpayers. That's fine. I think we 17 need to address that. But I heard -- listened very 18 carefully to what the Sheriff had to say this morning. The 19 Sheriff needs a detention facility and additional detention 20 capacity. And so here we are sitting with a juvenile 21 facility that could house up to 76 young folk, and the 22 Sheriff, who has a jail with overflow, can't -- that's maxed 23 out. Somewhere between the Sheriff's dilemma and the 24 juvenile detention dilemma, seems to me there's a solution. 25 Does Kerr County need a juvenile detention facility for 76 5-23-05 88 1 youth? Good question. Needs to be asked. Does the Sheriff 2 need additional space? Obviously, or he wouldn't have been 3 making an impassioned plea this morning for that purpose. 4 So, somewhere between those two opposites, those two poles, 5 in my view, lies an answer. Shutting it down in the 6 meantime to get there is not the answer. So -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I didn't say anything 8 about shutting it down. I said authorize Nicholson and the 9 County Attorney to advertise and negotiate the sale of it. 10 And I'm shocked that I got a second, to be -- 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I know you are. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- to be honest with 13 you. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I know you are. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I didn't second that 16 last part. I thought that was a joke. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, it is. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Take a vote, Judge, so 20 we can go eat lunch. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Maybe I need to understand 22 what the motion is, based upon that last comment. What is 23 the motion? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The motion is to 25 authorize Commissioner Nicholson and the County Attorney to 5-23-05 89 1 advertise and negotiate the sale of the Juvenile Detention 2 Facility. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't understand 5 that part, Commissioner. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Was that -- excuse me just a 7 moment, please. And that -- that first motion was seconded 8 by Commissioner Nicholson? 9 MS. PIEPER: Yes. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Was that the motion you 11 seconded? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That was the motion 13 that was made. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I need some clarity. 15 Just -- Commissioner, why -- why would we do that 16 advertisement differently -- or assign responsibility 17 differently than we would disposal of some other asset? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I just can't 19 imagine us going over to the Kerrville Daily Times and -- 20 and running a little ad in there. Somebody needs -- I'm 21 sure that there are journals of some sort that juvenile 22 detention facilities deal in, and somebody needs to seek 23 that out and find them and make sure our ad is put in there, 24 and that all the juvenile detention gurus on earth are 25 notified that there's one for sale. 5-23-05 90 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay, my second 2 stands. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 4 MR. EMERSON: May I make one comment before 5 y'all vote? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, sir. 7 MR. EMERSON: I think we probably need to go 8 through the proper procedures, if you're going to advertise 9 it for bid, to have it declared surplus first. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That'd be fine. Why 12 don't you put that together and bring it back? That's what 13 I'm authorizing you to do. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's not what that 15 motion authorizes. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any further questions 18 or discussion? 19 MR. SHULTS: If I may? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, sir. Come forward, 21 Reverend Shults. 22 MR. SHULTS: Of course, you know me; I'm Al 23 Shults, pastor of Motley Hills Baptist Church in Kerrville, 24 but I'm also -- I've been involved with the Department of 25 Corrections in the state of Oklahoma for 13 years, and I'm 5-23-05 91 1 also involved as a teacher here at the Kerrville Juvenile 2 Detention Center. And I would just ask you please to go 3 slow on this, because whether we like to admit it or not, 4 even in Kerrville, we have some juveniles that at one time 5 or another need to be locked up, and they need to be locked 6 up immediately when the deputy sheriffs and the policemen 7 apprehend them. And there may be -- I'm not trying to 8 insult your intelligence, but you might think it out very 9 carefully, that these folks that have to be locked up 10 immediately, where you're going to take them, what you're 11 going to do with them, because, of course, we're going to be 12 dealing with them. And I think Probation here is going to 13 be tied up in some long transportation runs. I'm just 14 saying be careful of what you do when it concerns our 15 juveniles, because we really do have some -- some folks out 16 there that can get pretty mean, and they have to be taken 17 care of when the officer apprehends them, immediately. Just 18 -- I'm just saying, food for thought. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. We appreciate 20 that. Any further question or comments on that motion? 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Only comment I would 22 like to make is I kind of agree with Buster. If I had -- if 23 we only had four Kerr County people in our adult jail, I 24 think I know what this Court's decision would be, is I'd 25 house those four somewhere else and not worry about having 5-23-05 92 1 an adult jail. Are we going to take care of our own or 2 someone else's? I just sent out all the out-of-county ones 3 we had 'cause the population got too high. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a comment. I 5 mean, I'm going to vote against this, and the reason is that 6 I think the motion is -- is unclear. And, one, I'm not 7 going to ever negotiate -- pass an order to allow an 8 individual Commissioner and County Attorney to negotiate a 9 contract and the sale of a huge property. I mean, I'm not 10 going to go down that road. It's got to come back to the 11 Court. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why are you so hot 13 about this? I don't understand. You're not -- we're not 14 going to get a third vote, so what is the deal? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I just think it's 16 important. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What are you doing? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 'Cause you put it on the 19 agenda. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Let's vote. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We don't know that. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Anyway, that's my 23 comment. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 25 comment? All in favor of the motion as stated, signify by 5-23-05 93 1 raising your right hand. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: One, two. 3 (Commissioners Baldwin and Nicholson voted in favor of the motion.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5 (Commissioners Williams and Letz voted 6 against the motion.) 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: One, two, three. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I counted one, two the second 9 time. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. That's the same 11 thing as three, really. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I see. Ms. Harris, we have a 13 gentleman up here that has a crystal ball. You need to get 14 together with him to be able to answer Commissioner Letz' 15 question about when that thing is going to be up to full 16 capacity. 17 MS. HARRIS: Yes, sir. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: My concern is, by going 19 forward on the basis indicated in the motion, that it's 20 going to be, in my belief, counterproductive to the efforts 21 that Ms. Harris is making out there to try and make that a 22 viable facility with a future for this county and -- and 23 this region. Because of that, I'm going to vote against the 24 motion, so the motion fails. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, thank you, 5-23-05 94 1 Judge. Thank you for voting. I appreciate -- I appreciate 2 it when the County Judge votes. I do. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Wait, before you leave 4 this item, I will make a motion on this, 'cause I think 5 it's -- I will make a motion that we -- should we receive an 6 offer to purchase that facility, this Court -- or this 7 Commissioner, anyway, would certainly analyze it and review 8 it for possible sale. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: And consider it carefully. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Consider it. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Absolutely. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd like to -- I'd 13 like to add to that possible motion, see if we can get a 14 second, "and/or explore with the Sheriff the utilization of 15 one of those two facilities for his purposes as well, and 16 what that cost would be to the County." 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sure, I have no problem 18 with that. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can I get any 20 protection for the birds and the water -- 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- on this deal? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sure. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I think we can plug it in on 5-23-05 95 1 this one. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I do too. What 3 was the motion? If somebody drives in here and offers to 4 buy the thing, we're going to -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We will entertain the 6 sale of that facility, basically. Or -- 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And in the meantime, 8 we'll study the utilization issues with the Sheriff to see 9 what the potential is. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think there is a 11 value -- I mean, I'm not making it just to make it. I think 12 that there is a value that -- you know, that the public is 13 -- should know that we -- you know, we will sell if the 14 right offer comes in. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure. I'm for it, 16 man. Let's do it. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Needs a second. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I thought you seconded 19 it. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, I added to it. I 21 didn't second it. I can. I'll second the whole thing, with 22 the add-on. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Now we have a motion 24 and a second. Do we have any discussion or comments on the 25 motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your 5-23-05 96 1 right hand. 2 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 4 (No response.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything further on this 8 particular agenda item? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not this particular 10 one, but I do have a thought, going back to Rusty's comments 11 earlier today. I really think that we should sit down and 12 set a workshop, and sit down and start working through some 13 of these problems. If we don't, we're never going to get 14 there and we're going to get caught. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: It occurs to me, Commissioner, 16 that we'll probably need as part of the workshop what 17 Commissioner Williams was talking about as one of the 18 potential options that we have. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. That's 20 exactly right. What -- what date did you want, Bill? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let me refer to my 22 electronic brain; this one's not working. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think we 24 should -- probably -- well, I believe you're going to be 25 absent from the second meeting in June. 5-23-05 97 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I am. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And so I would say either 3 the first meeting in June, if we can get it together, or the 4 first meeting in July. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: First meeting in June 6 or July, yeah. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Sooner. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: First meeting in June 9 is what, Commissioner? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: 13th. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Be the 13th. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. Pretty late. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Afternoon work 14 session, Sheriff? 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah, the sooner the 16 better. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: June 13th is good 18 with me. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The Sheriff and I 20 held a workshop on a coffee table, and I asked him how much 21 he thought it would cost -- I'm not going to tell -- to 22 convert that to a female adult prison. And I think, if I 23 understood him correctly, it would cost less than the annual 24 deficit for operating, so there may be some economic -- good 25 economics to converting that to a -- even though it's a 5-23-05 98 1 large number. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Needs to be explored. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And I also -- should 4 also say, for the Sheriff, that's not as easy a solution as 5 it seems, 'cause it would cause him personnel and 6 transportation difficulties and other administrative 7 problems. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Is the 13th going to be 9 adequate time for you, Sheriff? 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Probably so, yes. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Afternoon. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's fine. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 1:30 or something. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Whatever time y'all set. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Depending on the 17 agenda. 18 MS. HARRIS: I will be at a conference on the 19 13th. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Also on the 14th? 21 MS. HARRIS: Yes, sir. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You'll be gone? 23 MS. HARRIS: Yes, sir, on June the 13th. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, we're -- 25 actually, the basic meeting is about the adult jail, so 5-23-05 99 1 can't we just go ahead and move forward with that? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, yeah. Yeah, your 3 point's well taken. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. That's one 5 today. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a joke, now, 8 guys. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: You got the birds. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I got the birds and 11 the water. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: And the trees. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm doing fine. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are they cedar trees or 15 hackberries? (Laughter.) 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Doing fine. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So, we're looking at 18 doing an agenda -- excuse me, a workshop the afternoon of 19 the 13th at 1:30? Is that what I'm hearing? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that's what 21 you're hearing. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. That's what 23 I'm -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Yes, ma'am? 25 MS. MITCHELL: If the workshop's going to 5-23-05 100 1 take longer than 30 minutes, then we need to reschedule the 2 reports from the department heads and elected officials -- I 3 mean department heads that answer to y'all. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why don't we do the 5 workshop the next day, the 14th? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Tuesday afternoon? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 14th is okay. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: God, that's Flag Day, 9 guys. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We'll wave the flag. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 14th. Make it the 14 14th. 10 o'clock? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Ten -- well, I've got mental 16 health. I can probably -- 1:30 I know will work for me. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 1:30 on the 14th. 18 Are you back in case we need you back? No, you're gone. 19 MS. HARRIS: I'm gone. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's all I have. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Do we have anything we 23 need to go into executive or closed session about? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, I have a personnel 25 item. 5-23-05 101 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All-righty. Do you want to 2 come back to that? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why don't we come back 4 after we finish everything else? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: We're going to do our 6 housekeeping first and then we'll come back to that. If you 7 don't want to stay for housekeeping, that's fine. 8 (Discussion off the record.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll come back to the 10 executive session items, and we'll go to the approval 11 agenda. First item is payment of the bills. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move we pay the bills. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a question or two, if I 15 might. First question deals with Page 8. Did our I.T. man 16 take a powder on me? At the middle of the page, Sheriff's 17 Department, Kerrville Telephone, $2,145. Does that include 18 this one-time charge for switching over a lot of this I.T. 19 stuff, broadband, redundancy line? 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Not that I'm aware of. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't think so. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Seems like a -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Doesn't the -- isn't our 24 jail system with Kerrville Telephone now? 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes, it's all -- 5-23-05 102 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It could be -- there's 2 probably -- 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Not the inmate system. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The inmate system's not? 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the one we 7 changed out a few months ago, isn't it? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Why do we have a $2,150 bill 10 to Kerrville Telephone Company? The wireless bill is 11 separate; that's $414 just above it. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: That's all the long distance. 13 And -- and the lease on the system comes -- the equipment 14 lease is in there too. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Does that sound right to you, 16 Rusty, $2,150? 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: That's kind of the answer I 19 was expecting. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think that's higher 21 than what it has been in all the months previous. Unless it 22 -- unless there's -- the equipment lease is due at certain 23 times. But I don't -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: No, it's monthly. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But Tommy said there's a 5-23-05 103 1 discrepancy, 7 cents versus 14 cents, so the phone bill 2 should be double what it has been. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah, it is. Long distance. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That could be what 5 happened. 6 MR. TOMLINSON: This is for the month of -- 7 well, no, that would be April. April's bill. But it -- it 8 did double, the long distance did. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Has your long distance bill 10 been $1,000 a month out there, Rusty? I don't think so. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I would have to go back 12 and look. We have all those bills, but I'd have to go back. 13 I don't believe it has been, 'cause normally my highest 14 one's always been our cell phones. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What does the bill 16 invoice show? 17 MR. TOMLINSON: It's 175782, is the one he's 18 talking about. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: 2,100. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, I see it. 21 What's the invoice show? 5782. 22 MR. TOMLINSON: It's in that one. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 1757 what? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 5782. 25 MR. TOMLINSON: 5782. Here it is; got to be 5-23-05 104 1 here. Well, the prior month was 1,577. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Say it again? 3 MR. TOMLINSON: Prior month was $1,577. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is it L.D.? Is that 5 what it is, long distance? 6 MR. TOMLINSON: It's all the current charges. 7 The basic monthly service was $932, and then the optional 8 local service was $595. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm just glad y'all 10 approved the deal to go out and look at other options. 11 MR. TOMLINSON: I mean, this is all -- this 12 is what I was talking about. I mean, there's -- 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Did you say earlier 14 that we're getting charged for long distance at 14 or 17 15 cents a minute? 16 MR. TOMLINSON: 14 cents was the last -- was 17 for the last bill. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good heavens, I get 19 it at home for 6 cents from the same company. 20 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, they -- they admit that 21 they made a mistake, but -- 22 JUDGE TINLEY: But they want us to send them 23 a check. 24 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I see. 5-23-05 105 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I guess send them the 2 last check. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's staggering, the 4 amount we pay a month to them. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. The only other item I 6 have is on Page 1 under County Clerk, 207, recharged 7 cartridges. Is -- is that through the centralized 8 purchasing that we've done through the I.T. department that 9 he's arranged? Or are these special cartridges that you can 10 only get from one place? 11 MS. PIEPER: This is cartridges that, once we 12 use them in the printer, we send them off to get them 13 re-inked rather than buying brand new ones. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do mine that way, 16 and it's about half the cost. 17 MS. PIEPER: Right. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Of course, I do it in 19 Kerrville, though. I don't send them -- 20 MS. PIEPER: No, ours is done local. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, I just never heard 22 of this company. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Who is it? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Petty Enterprises. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The place by 5-23-05 106 1 Albertsons? 2 MS. PIEPER: I don't know. My chief deputy 3 takes care of it, but it is local, because he comes here and 4 picks them up one day and either brings them back that 5 afternoon or the next morning. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, my point is, the I.T. 7 Director has tried to -- to do something on a centralized 8 basis to negotiate the best price available, and I don't 9 know whether these particular cartridges could fall under 10 that program or not. Maybe you found a better deal. If so, 11 he needs to know about it. 12 MS. PIEPER: He may have worked that out with 13 -- I mean, Nadene does my ordering, and I'm sure the two of 14 them have probably even talked about it. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any other questions or 16 comments? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir, I have one. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: All right, sir. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Page 18 is -- I love 20 the Juvenile Detention Facility, guys. I do. These are the 21 bills for the Juvenile Detention Facility, $11,787. Is this 22 money that we have appropriated already? 23 MR. TOMLINSON: Mm-hmm. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: When we did the lump 25 sum a couple of months ago, this -- okay, that's all I 5-23-05 107 1 wanted to know. Thank you very much. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or 3 comments? 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: One question on Page 5 7, just for my education. Top group there, about midway, 6 PTS of America, LLC, extradition expense, and then the next 7 line, extradition service. What are they doing for us? 8 MR. TOMLINSON: Extradition costs. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Oh, I'm sorry, I was 10 looking at some of these bills. Extradition costs, that's 11 what it takes to -- and I didn't hear your question, but I'm 12 assuming that's where we had to hire a company to bring that 13 person back from another state. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So they don't -- 15 they pick them up for you and deliver them? 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They pick them up. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's more 18 cost-effective than you doing it? 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We like to try and do 20 all our own, but we're ending up with so many that sometimes 21 we may have two or three that have to be picked up in 22 different states on the same time limits, and at times it 23 can be more cost-effective to go ahead and get a company to 24 bring them back. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. That's all I 5-23-05 108 1 got. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or 3 comments? I'm sorry. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, it appears that it's 5 just a typing difference; it's the same service. One's 6 listed as an "expense" and one as a "service." 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Two different 8 people, I think. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably entered it -- 10 well, it says -- I do have a question on the first page, 11 Nondepartmental. It's the forensic services, those first 12 two items, Travis County Medical Examiner. I know John 13 Grimes at times has said that he has offered to set up a 14 workshop for our J.P.'s about exactly what needs to be sent 15 for forensic services, and we may try to get that moving, 16 because I think we might save some money, anyway. I think 17 we overuse that service, in my opinion. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: I have dictated some notes to 19 our administrative assistant to try and get coordination, 20 find out what other counties in the area use the Travis 21 County Medical Examiner's office so we can bring those 22 counties in with us and try and have it be kind of an 23 area -- but I'm in the process of trying to get that 24 Dr. Bayardo here, so hopefully we can reduce that cost in 25 the future. 5-23-05 109 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or 3 comments? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 4 your right hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Budget 9 amendments. Budget Amendment Request Number 1. 10 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 1 is for the County 11 Attorney. He's requesting a transfer of $77.46 from Books, 12 Publications and Dues to Postage. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 16 approval of Budget Amendment Request Number 1. Any question 17 or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 18 raising your right hand. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 23 Budget Amendment Request Number 2. 24 MR. TOMLINSON: This is from Bill Ragsdale, 25 J.P. 4. He's requesting a transfer of $97.50 from his 5-23-05 110 1 Janitorial line item to Miscellaneous. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move to approve. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 5 approval of Budget Amendment Request Number 2. Any question 6 or discussion? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Question. So, 8 10-458-499 is Miscellaneous? 9 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What a strange word. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that a question? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, just a comment. 13 It's a strange word for a budget. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 15 comment? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 16 your right hand. 17 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Budget 21 Amendment Request Number 3. 22 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. Number 3 is for the 23 jail, to transfer of $45 into Radio Repairs out of the 24 Cooks' Salary line item for the jail. Actually, we're 25 requesting a $55 transfer out to correct a $10 error that we 5-23-05 111 1 previously made. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 5 approval of Budget Amendment Request Number 3. Any question 6 or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 7 raising your right hand. 8 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 10 (No response.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Budget 12 Amendment Request Number 4. 13 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 4 is from the District 14 Clerk. She's requested a transfer of $43.70 from Office 15 Supplies to Machine Repairs. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move to approve. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 19 approval of Budget Amendment Request Number 4. Any question 20 or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 21 raising your right hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. I've 5-23-05 112 1 just been handed Budget Amendment Request Number 5. 2 MS. PIEPER: Tommy, do you have an extra? 3 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. Number 5, I received 4 this from the Treasurer this morning. Her request is to 5 transfer $1,420.38 from Deputy Salaries and $681 in Group 6 Insurance to her Part-Time line item. That total is 7 $2,101.38. I think she's attached the -- the justification 8 for -- for this request with this -- with this amendment. I 9 think it's on the back. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: This deals with a budget 11 amendment in the last fiscal year? 12 MS. NEMEC: That budget -- that explanation 13 that I attached was the explanation for last year's request, 14 and on the bottom paragraph -- the second paragraph, I also 15 noted in there that I would be coming back this year, and 16 the reason why, and so I just attached that same letter that 17 was sent to you all last year when I requested a budget 18 amendment to be done in September of last year. The Auditor 19 told me that y'all needed an explanation before that was 20 approved, so that's the letter I sent you all last year, 21 October of 2004. Which I also stated in that letter that I 22 would be coming back this year requesting more money, and 23 why. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You've lost me a 25 little bit. 5-23-05 113 1 MS. NEMEC: That -- 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is going to be 3 painless, okay? 4 MS. NEMEC: Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You had hired somebody 6 and we refused to pay them? No? 7 MS. NEMEC: Last year? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes. 9 MS. NEMEC: Last year, I went over in my 10 part-time line item. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 12 MS. NEMEC: And that -- that letter there is 13 an explanation as to why I went over, as requested by the 14 Auditor, for y'all to be able to pay that. That was last 15 year. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 17 MS. NEMEC: But in that second to the last 18 paragraph, I included in last year's letter that I would be 19 coming back this year, and that's why I attached this 20 letter, to remind you all that I had already explained to 21 y'all that this would be happening this year. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is it -- what I want 23 to know is -- 24 MS. NEMEC: The reasons why? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, just hold it. 5-23-05 114 1 MS. NEMEC: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are we dealing with 3 something that happened last year? 4 MS. NEMEC: No. 5 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Okay. All 7 right. All right, I'm kind of clear now. Sort of. 8 MR. TOMLINSON: We're dealing with this year. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pardon? 10 MR. TOMLINSON: We're dealing with this year. 11 MS. NEMEC: And on top of the explanation for 12 that letter at that time, that I would be needing to come 13 back, there's also a 2 and a half percent COLA increase that 14 I had added to my part-time line item that was not put in 15 during the budget process. There was some overtime that 16 Jacqui had to work due to my chief deputy taking time off 17 from October through December, and then she's also had to 18 work some overtime from January on since we were in training 19 with the new person. I usually get a student from Tivy from 20 their work program to come in and help us out when we get 21 behind, but they were not doing that this year, and so that 22 also includes some part-time money that I paid for someone 23 to come in on a part-time basis for some hours during 24 October through December 15th. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 5-23-05 115 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 3 approval. Any questions or comments? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I just have kind of a 5 corollary question here, Barbara. You're moving this money 6 out of two different line items, but the one that I'm 7 curious about is Group Insurance. And the question is, 8 you've spent fewer dollars of your budgeted amount for group 9 insurance at the two-thirds mark of the county budget year 10 than would be the case if we took that 11,9 and split it in 11 three parts, and so you've got a surplus there showing that 12 your cost for group insurance was not as great as you had 13 anticipated. But I read in the Kerrville Daily Times here 14 recently where the Sheriff is anticipating insurance costs 15 to go up 15 to 20 percent, and I'm wondering, where are we 16 with that? 17 MS. NEMEC: Okay. The -- what you read in 18 the Daily Times was an estimate for next year's -- 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand. 20 MS. NEMEC: -- increase. The reason that 21 this increase is in my budget, which is going to be in 22 everyone's budget, was because when we do our budgets, we 23 just estimate -- the Auditor and I get together and we 24 figure out what insurance is doing out there and what kind 25 of estimate we might be able to expect as far as an 5-23-05 116 1 increase, and we pass that on to the departments. At this 2 point, we don't know what our insurance premium is going to 3 be for next year, so we just estimate, which is what we did 4 last year. And that gave me $681 extra. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, the -- well, more 6 than that, actually. But the -- 7 MS. NEMEC: I mean -- yeah, 14. 14. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So it's an 9 overestimation for the current budget year, and we don't 10 know the answer for next year. 11 MS. NEMEC: No, actually, it's 681. I 12 figured how much it would take for the rest of the year and 13 how much I was going to have left in that line item. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Barbara, I've got a -- 16 I guess just a comment here on your -- your reasons that 17 you're moving money around and paying extra money. I'm 18 going to read two sentences out of here. 19 MS. NEMEC: Mm-hmm. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: In the first 21 paragraph, it says, "My chief deputy took several weeks of 22 vacation during our busiest time of the year." And then the 23 second paragraph, "My part-time person also took vacation 24 time during our busy time of the year." I don't know if I 25 would tell people that or not. 5-23-05 117 1 MS. NEMEC: That was during last year. This 2 -- this top two paragraphs are for the -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 4 MS. NEMEC: -- explanation for last year's 5 budget. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You've blown me away. 7 I'm through for the day, I can tell you. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, that's what I'm confused 9 about. We've got a budget amendment May the 23rd of '05, 10 but it has attached to it a memorandum dated October 5, 11 2004, reference a requested budget amendment dated 12 September 27th, 2004. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- let me try to 14 make a stab at this. As I understand -- as I understand 15 from -- how I understood what Barbara has said is that we 16 can disregard everything in that memo except the bottom part 17 that says there's going to be another amendment in 18 2004-2005. 19 (Commissioner Baldwin left the courtroom.) 20 MS. NEMEC: That's just to let you know that 21 ahead of time, I knew this was going to happen, and back in 22 October I notified -- I notified y'all with a previous 23 budget amendment that I would be coming back this year. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The first two paragraphs 25 refer to a budget amendment last year. It's only that 5-23-05 118 1 little bit of Paragraph 3 that refers to this budget 2 amendment, and it just says that she's told us a year -- or 3 last October that she was going to have another budget 4 amendment. 5 MS. NEMEC: That's right. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's -- 7 MS. NEMEC: You've got it. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: And you sent this memo 9 October 4 of last year? 10 MS. NEMEC: Yes, sir. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: I have no recollection of 12 having received it, but that's neither here nor there, I 13 don't suppose. Do you remember receiving it? 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah, I do. 15 MS. NEMEC: I put it in everyone's box, and 16 gave yours to -- 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So, basically, 18 everything in this memo except the heads-up, I'm going to be 19 coming to you in the '04-'05 budget year for an amendment 20 during that budget year, has no application to what you're 21 requesting here. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You got it. 23 MS. NEMEC: Right. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, thank you. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, you sifted down 5-23-05 119 1 through it. 2 MS. NEMEC: I will tell you right now that 3 the figure that -- that I'm requesting is within my budget. 4 But I figured how much I'll have with this through the end 5 of September, and if Jacqui continues -- well, she will have 6 to work what she is scheduled to work. I'm still going to 7 be short, but I'm waiting to see where I'm going to have -- 8 'cause, I mean, my budget is pretty skimpy and I didn't want 9 to take it out of an emergency or anything, so I'll be 10 coming back again when I see where my other line items are 11 to move more money up there. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're making it more 13 confusing. 14 MS. NEMEC: Excuse me? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Nevermind. 16 MS. NEMEC: Did you get that, Kathy, so I can 17 read it later? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or 19 comments on this item? All in favor of the motion, signify 20 by raising your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Any 25 more budget amendments? 5-23-05 120 1 MR. TOMLINSON: That's it. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Do we have any late 3 bills? 4 MR. TOMLINSON: I have one. It's for $340 5 payable to the Clerk of the Supreme Court of Texas. It's 6 for the State Bar dues for the County Attorney. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Need a hand check? 10 (Mr. Tomlinson nodded.) 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Authorize a hand 12 check. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 15 approval of the late bill to Supreme Court of Texas, $340, 16 for Bar dues for the County Attorney, and authorize hand 17 check. Any questions or comments? All in favor of the 18 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Do we 23 have any reports from any of the Commissioners in connection 24 with their liaison or committee assignments? 25 (Commissioner Baldwin returned to the courtroom.) 5-23-05 121 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What's the score? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Three to one. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Spurs win. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: What's your report? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The coffee's all dried 6 up out there. Kathy's ready to go have lunch, and so am I. 7 That's about all I found out out there. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any other reports? 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I've got a couple of 10 reports. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I guess I just 13 wanted to keep you informed, and maybe get a little 14 guidance. Two of the joint contracts with the city, Animal 15 Control and Library, both have a provision in them that -- 16 that says that the budgets for the following year will be 17 submitted to the respective bodies by July 1. That's one 18 point. And then the library contract says that the -- that 19 the Commissioner who has liaison responsibility will meet 20 with the Library Director to prepare a financial report. 21 And so a few weeks ago, I sent a memo to the library, with a 22 copy to the Interim City Manager -- I copied you on it, 23 Judge -- that said I'm ready to do that and we need to 24 schedule a meeting and get it done so we can meet our 25 obligation to have that done by July 1, and I haven't heard 5-23-05 122 1 from him. This is why I need guidance. I'm assuming when 2 it says submit a budget by July 1, it's going to be a draft 3 budget. I'm not going to send anything to the City, or 4 we're not, that says, "Here's the final deal,' cause we have 5 -- so it'll be a -- you're nodding your head. It will be a 6 draft budget? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: More than likely. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. And then, on 9 Animal Control, January 28th we sent a letter to the City 10 saying the same thing. We need to renegotiate those 11 contracts; there are two of them, and we haven't heard from 12 them since January 28th. It's also got the July 1 date on 13 it. Now, today I gave Rex a -- he hasn't gotten it yet -- a 14 marked-up copy of pulling those two contracts together. One 15 of them's a 10-year-old contract that had something to do 16 with how we earned ownership of that facility, and then the 17 other one was our operating agreement. So, I've -- I've 18 marked those up and given it to Rex to take a look at. It's 19 probably -- well, I'm sure it won't meet with his -- his 20 approval, but it's pushing it in that direction. 21 I've also gotten some information from Jamie 22 -- Janie about what some -- what four other counties do that 23 are among the group of 13 that are our size, and it's all 24 across the board. One of them doesn't have animal control 25 coordinates or court order, and they don't do anything; the 5-23-05 123 1 Sheriff's Office looks into bites and whatever else, and 2 that's about it. And then ours is the -- of the other 3 counties, is the most elaborate and most cost-effective. 4 So, I'm just telling you between now and July 1, I'm going 5 to give you a piece of paper that shows some options that we 6 might have for a contract and the way we'll go about that, 7 and it -- for purposes of thinking about it. I'm going to 8 guess that we're going to probably continue it more or less 9 the way we've done in the past, but at least you'll know 10 about the options. So, the purpose to all that long 11 discussion was to tell you that we got a July 1 deadline on 12 these two contracts, and we may have to just unilaterally 13 meet that, 'cause we're not getting any help and input from 14 the City. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner, I think I can 16 bring you up to a more current point. I received a response 17 to your request at the tail end of last week, and over the 18 weekend I dictated a draft response. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: That I hope circulates -- 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's on Library or 22 Animal Control? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: This is on Library. That I 24 hope to circulate to the members of the Court maybe sometime 25 today. It was on some dictation I did this weekend. Our 5-23-05 124 1 admin has it now. That'll bring us up to date there. Now, 2 I've not received anything on the Animal Control; this was 3 specified to the Library. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: For y'all's 5 information, the simplest issue on Animal Control is that 6 we've been paying 60 percent of the cost, and we have 7 40 percent of the activity, and that formula was payback to 8 them for buying things over a 10-year period. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: The purchase of the land and 10 the equipment, the rolling stock that we acquired from them. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. And so the 12 simple solution to the contract would be to flip-flop that 13 and go 60/40, but there's some other things we need to 14 consider. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Under the contract, we 16 own the land now. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. Yeah, we're through, 19 at the end of this fiscal year, doing that paying. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Want to sell it? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll entertain an offer. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you want to sell 23 that, Buster? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me -- let me go back, if I 5-23-05 125 1 might, to monthly reports. I have been submitted monthly 2 reports by the District Clerk and Justice of the Peace, 3 Precinct 4. Do I hear a motion that these reports be 4 approved as submitted? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 8 approval of the monthly reports as submitted. Any question 9 or comment? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 10 your right hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Do we 15 have any other reports from elected officials? Department 16 heads? We've got everything else. Anything else before we 17 go into executive or closed session? We will go out of open 18 session at 11:47. 19 (The open session was closed at 11:47 a.m., and an Executive Session was held, the 20 transcript of which is contained in a separate document.) 21 - - - - - - - - - - 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. It's 12:07 now, and 23 we'll come back, reconvene in open session. Does any member 24 of the Court have anything they wish to offer in connection 25 with any matter that was discussed in closed or executive 5-23-05 126 1 session? Hearing nothing, does any member of the Court have 2 anything further in connection with matters on today's 3 agenda? Hearing nothing more, we'll stand adjourned. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hear, hear. 5 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 12:08 p.m.) 6 - - - - - - - - - - 7 8 9 STATE OF TEXAS | 10 COUNTY OF KERR | 11 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 12 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 13 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 14 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 15 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 27th day of May, 2005. 16 17 18 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 19 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 20 Certified Shorthand Reporter 21 22 23 24 25 5-23-05