1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Regular Session 10 Monday, June 13, 2005 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 DAVE NICHOLSON, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X June 13, 2005 2 PAGE --- Commissioners' Comments 5 3 1.1 Presentation by Tina Woods, Executive Director, 4 on Dietert Seniors Center activities 11 --- Visitors' Comments (4-H Roundup report) 29 5 1.2 Request that Commissioners' Court declare unused furniture partitions as surplus, authorize sale 32 6 1.3 Consider Resolution establishing July as "Flood Awareness Month" in Kerr County 34 7 1.5 Discuss renewal for Pct. 4 and Tax Office Annex Building, also authorize payment for June balance 40 8 1.4 Presentation by Gretchen Jahn, CEO, Mooney Airplane Company 44 9 1.6 Consider authorizing City of Kerrville to temporarily use courtroom facilities to conduct 10 City of Kerrville Municipal Court 55 1.7 Report from City of Kerrville Interim City Manager 11 Don Davis on EMS budget and contract (Q & A) 58 1.9 Public Hearing on resolution amending TCDP 12 contracts regarding Kerrville South Wastewater Project, Phases 2, 3, and 4 70 13 1.10 Consider approving resolution(s) amending TCDP contracts regarding the scope of Kerrville South 14 Wastewater Project, Phases II, III, and IV 71 1.14 Report from Congressman Henry Bonilla's office 15 concerning status of projects and matters with the Congressman's district 83 16 1.8 Consider authorizing filing application with local foundation(s) to fund up to 1/2 amount required 17 for pre-engineering design phase of Center Point Wastewater Collection System 88 18 1.11 Discuss county standards to be met to upgrade Scenic Ridge Road in Hills 'n Dales Subdivision 19 to be acceptable for county maintenance 91 1.12 Consider funding and timeline of construction of 20 walk bridge in Flat Rock Park 102 1.13 Set public hearing for revision of plat for 21 Southern Hills, Phase Two, Lots 36, 37, & 38 110 1.15 Final Plat of Mosty Pecan Grove, Pct. 2 112 22 1.16 Discuss the "Kerr County Management's Discussion and Analysis" for the 2003-2004 audit 114 23 1.17 Approve placement contracts with El Paso County and Cameron County, authorize County Judge to sign 126 24 1.18 Consider approval of $4,500 to repair juvenile facility lift station 130 25 1.19 Discuss purchase of three new patrol cars 137 3 1 I N D E X (continued) June 13, 2005 2 PAGE 3 1.20 Consider having Information Technology Office conduct a review of all county offices in 4 reference to technology efficiency 140 1.21 Consider directing Environmental Health Department 5 Manager/Floodplain Administrator to deny permits when there is a violation of Subdivision Rules 144 6 1.22 Discuss Commissioners' Court liaison positions 146 1.23 Request approval of resolution to veto H.B. 2438 162 7 1.24 Consider/discuss Library Contract 164 1.25 Consider/discuss the Animal Control Contract 164 8 1.26 Consider/discuss the EMS Contract 167 1.27 Reports from the following Departments: 9 Animal Control 167 Extension Office 171 10 Environmental Health 187 Juvenile Detention Facility 210 11 4.1 Pay Bills 221 12 4.2 Budget Amendments 223 4.3 Late Bills 233 13 4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 235 14 5.1 Reports from Commissioners/Liaison Committee Assignments 235 15 --- Adjourned 240 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 4 1 On Monday, June 13, 2005, at 9:00 a.m., a regular meeting 2 of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in the 3 Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville, 4 Texas, and the following proceedings were had in open court: 5 P R O C E E D I N G S 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, ladies and 7 gentlemen. Let me call to order the regularly scheduled 8 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court scheduled for 9 this date and time, Monday, June 13th, 2005, at 9 a.m. It's 10 that time now, so let's get started, Commissioner 1, I think 11 you have the honors this morning, I believe. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do, sir. If y'all 13 would stand, we'll have a word of prayer and a pledge of 14 allegiance, please. 15 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: At this time, if there's any 18 member of the audience or the public that wishes to be heard 19 or address the Court on any matter that is not a listed 20 agenda item, you're privileged to come forward at this time. 21 Mr. Roy Walston, our Kerr County Extension Agent, has 22 indicated to me that he's got a 4-H representative or 23 representatives here today to -- 24 MR. WALSTON: I've got several others on the 25 way. They're going to -- actually, we were planning to be a 6-13-05 5 1 little later, so I -- they're going to -- it's going to 2 be -- if you don't mind recognizing them when they get here, 3 it should be around 9:30 or so. I wasn't expecting to -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. We appreciate you 5 being here today, and we'll try and get to you then. So, 6 we'll defer on that particular visitor's item, and is there 7 any other member of the public or the audience that wishes 8 to be heard on a matter that is not a listed agenda item? 9 If you wish to be heard on an agenda item, we'd ask that you 10 fill out a participation form at the back of the room. It's 11 not essential, but it assists me in not overlooking you when 12 we get to that item. But if there's any member of the 13 public or the audience that wishes to be to be heard on any 14 matter that's not a listed agenda item, please come forward 15 at this time. Seeing no one else coming forward, 16 Commissioner Baldwin, what do you have for us this morning? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have one item that I 18 wanted to bring up and talk about, and we have a good, dear 19 friend in this room that I understand it to be the last time 20 that she'll appear in this courtroom. Our good friend 21 Glenda Taylor of the Kerrville Daily Times is leaving 22 Kerrville and moving on to better things, and I just wanted 23 to say that I felt like that Glenda has been, as they say on 24 Fox, fair and balanced to us, and has reported very well, 25 and I wanted to thank her for her service to us and -- and 6-13-05 6 1 to her own job and to our county. Glenda, thank you so 2 much, and -- is that going to be front-page stuff here, or 3 should I keep talking? (Laughter.) Okay, that's all. 4 Thank you so much. That's all. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Commissioner 6 Williams? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Now I know why you 8 got all those quotes all the time. (Laughter.) 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's it. But it's 10 over, obviously. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I, too, wanted to say 12 a word about Glenda. Glenda came to Kerrville and the Daily 13 Times, and my understanding, it was with not a lot of 14 editorial or journalistic background, and picked up the -- 15 picked up the assignment of covering Commissioners Court, 16 which in and of itself is a difficult task, if you just walk 17 into these waters and not -- don't know what this kind of 18 government is all about or what it does every two weeks and 19 what issues it confronts. And I just wanted to say thank 20 you, Glenda. You've done a splendid job. And what I 21 appreciate as an old -- old, old newspaperman, what I 22 appreciate most about what you have done is that you have 23 reserved your opinions for the space -- for that purpose on 24 the editorial page, and you have reported the news as it has 25 unfolded, and I thank you for that. That's not too often -- 6-13-05 7 1 that doesn't happen in the media today too often, and I 2 appreciate your efforts. Good luck to you. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, sir. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner 3? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I'll change the 7 subject a little bit with all the baseball, 'cause we just 8 got to talk about baseball for a few minutes. First, I 9 think everyone's aware that the Comfort Bobcats had an 10 outstanding run this year in high school baseball. They 11 lost in the state tournament to Woodville. Disappointing, 12 but they faced a pitcher that they hadn't ever seen anything 13 quite the likes of before. But, really, the accomplishments 14 of making the state tournament is probably -- as long as I 15 can remember, they're the only team in the area that that's 16 gotten that far. Tremendous job. Then going to the major 17 league baseball draft, Kerrville is unbelievable, the 18 success they've had in this draft in recent years. Kevin 19 Whelan was drafted in the fourth round, which is phenomenal; 20 he's going to the Detroit Tigers. And J.P. Carter was 21 drafted for the third time, and as I understand it, he's for 22 the third time going to decline and going to go to -- I 23 believe it may be the University of Alabama. But that is 24 remarkable to have -- Kerrville currently has now four 25 players in the major league baseball system, which is 6-13-05 8 1 really -- for a small high school like Kerrville, Tivy, is 2 amazing. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Any of those relatives 4 or anything, Jon? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maybe two of them. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Maybe? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Maybe. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Also in that, before we 9 leave, hats off to Texas Longhorns and Baylor Bears; they're 10 continuing to make it through the super regionals. They 11 both are in decisive games today and will find out if 12 they'll be going to the college world series or not. Texas 13 is -- I have my doubts if they're going to make it, but they 14 may. They have basically the same people that they had last 15 year, minus a few players that went last year to the draft. 16 And a final note is -- it's baseball-related. I don't 17 know -- I doubt if too many people really watch a lot of 18 baseball -- college baseball games, but if somebody does 19 watch a lot, there was a game about two weeks ago between 20 Notre Dame and University of Florida, and this -- it just 21 happened to be this game, the person that announces a lot of 22 them -- lo and behold, the lead announcer for that was 23 Carter Blackburn on the College Sports Network, and Carter 24 is the son of Bill Blackburn. His dream from way, way back 25 was to be a professional sports announcer. He graduated 6-13-05 9 1 from Tivy, went to Cornell, got a degree and was working in 2 that field for a little bit, and has hit the big-time, 3 College Sports Network. He had a 50 -- I believe it's a 4 50-game contract he's currently working the current year, 5 and does an outstanding job. So, whenever you're flipping 6 around and you see Carter Blackburn, he's a local boy as 7 well. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I want to make a 9 comment on your -- the games yesterday and today. If the 10 Longhorns -- if they stopped the game after seven innings, 11 it would be no problem. Boy, those last two innings, 12 though, golly, fall apart. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Shows how much Houston 14 Street -- having that closer, which they don't have this 15 year. And it's Houston Street who was their closer last 16 year. He's doing the same thing in major leagues as he did 17 in college; he's shutting them down. Remarkable. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I do have one other 20 thing. Glad you brought that up. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: That's why I inquired. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just wanted to -- two 23 things. One, just caution everyone when they're driving 24 down the rural roads, primarily in Dave's area and my area. 25 I happened to be on Hermann Sons Road yesterday at 6-13-05 10 1 2 o'clock. Camp changes are at 2:30, and you have never 2 seen so many cars on a narrow, winding road as going out to 3 Hermann Sons camp yesterday afternoon. So I think that, you 4 know, a weekend, especially when the camps are changing kids 5 in and out, it's increasing the traffic on some of our -- on 6 Highway 39, I'm sure, and roads out in the Hunt area and 7 around Comfort, some of those areas. It is a lot of 8 traffic, and those people need to really be careful, 9 especially Sunday afternoons when that's going on. That's 10 it. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner 4? 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Memorial Day weekend 13 brought some sad news to west Kerr County. In our little 14 Methodist church, we had two funerals; J.M. Auld and Mark 15 Edinburgh, both good friends of mine, and I know J.M. was 16 probably a friend of Mr. Baldwin's for all his life. J.M. 17 was the great, great, great grandson of Joshua Brown, so 18 they're a remarkable and important family in Kerr County. 19 On the bright side, the camps are open. It occurs to me -- 20 and I appreciate what you said, Commissioner. There is a -- 21 there are a lot of foreigners out there driving our roads 22 all summer long, and the good news is they're bringing in 23 lots of money from Dallas, Houston and Austin and other 24 places. So, I appreciate those camps, and I appreciate the 25 huge impact they have on our economy. That's all. 6-13-05 11 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. I too want to wish 2 Ms. Taylor well in her future endeavors, whatever those may 3 be, and we hope she goes with the best of fortunes. Let's 4 get down to business. I want to get ahead of the game a 5 little bit. We had a timed item, but I notice that 6 Ms. Woods is here, so we'll start with the first item on the 7 agenda, with a presentation by Tina Woods, who is the 8 Executive Director of the Dietert Senior Center -- Seniors 9 Center, upon the activities and goings on there at Dietert. 10 MS. WOODS: Thank you. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Appreciate you being here this 12 morning. 13 MS. WOODS: Well, I appreciate the 14 opportunity to share with y'all what's happening at our 15 center. We had our monitoring by AACOG a couple of weeks 16 ago, and Commissioner Williams was part of that monitoring, 17 since he's your representative on the AACOG Board. And with 18 the questions that he asked, it made very clear to me that 19 it would probably be helpful for y'all to know exactly what 20 we're doing. There's a lot happening at the center, and 21 also for me to have the opportunity to thank you for the 22 support that you give our seniors every year. What I'm 23 going to cover with you this morning is an overview of our 24 services, how the County makes a difference in helping us to 25 deliver services to the seniors, and also give you an update 6-13-05 12 1 on our capital campaign, because I'm sure that's of great 2 interest to y'all. 3 I have no issues to vent this morning. I 4 know many times y'all hear a lot of bad news and a lot of 5 difficult questions to deal with, so I'm here to present 6 good news. I know that that's not always the case with the 7 Court. So, I hope y'all bear with me as I walk through what 8 we do. Many of these things you may know, but some you may 9 not. For the past 35 years, the Dietert Senior Center has 10 been the only nonprofit organization in Kerr County 11 dedicated exclusively to helping older citizens. We serve 12 two distinct groups in our community. One is the active 13 senior who comes to our center and enjoys lunch or 14 participates in activities or delivers Meals on Wheels, and 15 then the other group is the less active that we deliver 16 Meals on Wheels to, or that we go in and help them in their 17 homes with their independent living service. With that 18 active group, we have about 1,200 seniors who are either 19 being involved in activities or they're volunteering their 20 time. That less active group is about 300 seniors. 21 For the programs that we receive federal and 22 state funding through the Older Americans Act, we cannot 23 charge for our services. We can suggest a donation, but we 24 cannot charge. It is not an income-based program, so even 25 though folks have the ability to pay, they're not required 6-13-05 13 1 to pay. We suggest donations in every instance where we 2 receive government funding, but again, part of the Older 3 Americans Act was to preserve the dignity of our seniors who 4 are less affluent, so we cannot charge, which makes it kind 5 of interesting every year when we start to do our budgeting. 6 We're never quite sure how much our folks are going to be 7 able to contribute, and that's what makes our contracts with 8 the County and AACOG and the Texas Department of Human 9 Services very important to us. 10 Probably the most critical and 11 labor-intensive service that we offer is our nutrition 12 program. We prepare approximately 60,000 meals every year, 13 and we do that in a kitchen that is very tiny, that was in 14 the original house that Mr. Dietert bought back in 1969. 15 About 40,000 of those meals are delivered to our Meals on 16 Wheels folks. These are homebound elderly who can no longer 17 prepare meals for themselves or shop. Many times, our 18 volunteer drivers are the lifeline to those folks. Part of 19 their requirement is that they give the meal to the 20 recipient and have a brief conversation with them. They're 21 trained to recognize changes in the mental status of those 22 folks and to just really kind of monitor them. Many times 23 our volunteers are the only person that they see. We're up 24 to 170 Meals on Wheels every Monday through Friday in our 25 community, which is a lot. We operate nine routes 6-13-05 14 1 throughout the county, including Center Point, Hunt, and 2 Ingram. We're looking at dividing up some of those to go to 3 ten routes, simply because we have as many as 30 meals being 4 delivered on a single set of drivers, and that's really more 5 than we would like to keep the food within its safe range 6 for heat and cold. 7 We do anticipate this service growing over 8 time, simply because we know the folks who are active at our 9 center now are the ones in waiting to be less active. 10 Probably the age range that we support in this area are 11 anywhere from early '80's to late, late 90's. Our active 12 group of seniors is anywhere from 50 to late 90's. It's 13 amazing what these folks can do. But Meals on Wheels is 14 very important to us, obviously. The volunteers who deliver 15 these meals log about 9,000 hours every year doing this 16 service. We had a donor recently come forward who is 17 concerned about the expense of gas, and he was from another 18 community and had set up a gas voucher program there. So, 19 he's an anonymous donor, but we now can supply vouchers. 20 We've worked with the Fritz family, the Mini-Marts, and 21 every week each of our drivers gets a gas voucher for $5. 22 They can use it or not use it, and this kind gentleman comes 23 in and writes us a check every month, so that's been 24 amazing. Many of our drivers can afford to pay for it, but 25 we've got a lot that that is a significant expense for them, 6-13-05 15 1 especially when they're driving 20 miles, so it's been real 2 gratifying to have this help in that area. 3 In our dining room, we serve about 20,000 4 lunches every year. Depending upon the menu -- if it's 5 fish, we may have about 60; if it's ham or roast beef, we'll 6 have close to 100. A lot depends upon what we're serving, 7 just obvious. But that is a service that we provide and 8 that we're very proud of. Our food is excellent. Y'all are 9 all invited to come; our dining room is open to everyone. 10 If you're under 60, I can charge $5 for your meal. If 11 you're 60 or older, we suggest a $4 donation. Our actual 12 cost in this area is about $4.80 a meal. We have devoted, 13 since I've been at the center, the $15,000 that y'all give 14 us from the County to our nutrition program, simply because 15 that is the most vital service that we offer. Your $15,000 16 represents about 25 cents a meal, so I think that's an 17 excellent investment on your part, and believe me, we 18 appreciate it. 19 This service is something that, long-term, we 20 expect to grow. I learned last week that the Older 21 Americans Act was really designed primarily to get people 22 together. I've always thought that it was for a Meals on 23 Wheels type service, to support them in their homes, but the 24 idea was that older folks need to get out. They shouldn't 25 be isolated; they need to come to a centralized place to 6-13-05 16 1 enjoy a meal and enjoy fellowship. It's not the largest 2 program that we offer, but it's probably the noisiest. We 3 know that folks who come to our center enjoy themselves, and 4 many of the people who are there, that's their primary meal 5 that day. To my surprise when I came to the center, I would 6 have expected a lot of ladies to be eating with us, because 7 ladies live longer generally, but we have more gentlemen in 8 our dining room than ladies. Because, guess what? Do y'all 9 cook? Not too many men do. When they find themselves on 10 their own, they -- they really do enjoy coming to our center 11 and having a good meal, 'cause they don't like to cook for 12 themselves, or they never learned how. There are also many 13 relationships that develop. We have a single men's table. 14 They have a sign on it that says, "Single ladies welcome." 15 And then "welcome" was crossed out and "wanted" was written 16 in. (Laughter.) So, it's -- it's a very interesting place. 17 It's a lot of fun to be, but it's important too. 18 Our Independent Living Program is probably 19 less well-known than our Meals on Wheels, but this is the 20 service where we are providing -- essentially taking our 21 senior center to the home. Patsy Hodges, who was the 22 director of social services at Sid Peterson Hospital, is now 23 in charge of this service, and we expect, long-term, this to 24 be a growth area for us. We are the only option for folks 25 who have few resources to be able to get some kind of 6-13-05 17 1 support in their home. We will go in and do a full 2 assessment, and based on that assessment, we can provide 3 light housekeeping. We work with home health agencies in 4 town to come into the home and help folks with bathing and 5 dressing. We can install an emergency response device like 6 a lifeline in their homes. These are supported through the 7 AACOG program, the Older Americans Act program, and it is 8 provided at no charge. We do suggest a donation, but again, 9 folks are not required to pay for this service. We contract 10 for it, so essentially the funds are a pass-through for us. 11 But there are lots of private home health agencies in town; 12 for people who have resources, they can get help in their 13 home. The Dietert Center is the only one that can provide 14 this service for those who don't have the resources. 15 It stays pretty busy. Our funds are limited, 16 because AACOG dictates how much we can spend. We can only 17 offer this service for a three-month period for the 18 homemaking and the light housekeeping and the personal 19 assistance. The emergency response devices we can put in 20 for a six-month period, but it's better than nothing. 21 Long-term, I have big concerns about this area, simply 22 because we're the only senior center in the AACOG region 23 that provides social services. Most do meals or activities, 24 but they really don't do the social services that we do. We 25 are always going to have folks in our community who cannot 6-13-05 18 1 afford to pay for this type of service, but it costs less 2 for them to be maintained in their home than in an 3 institutionalized setting. We've formed recently the Hill 4 Country Coalition on Aging, which combines all of the groups 5 that deal with seniors in this community, and I believe 6 they, working with you and the rest of our government 7 officials, are going to have to be very creative in the next 8 several years to figure out how we're going to support the 9 growing number of elderly that are going to need assistance. 10 It's one of the things that keeps me up at 11 night, but I do believe that programs like Independent 12 Living are really going to make a difference. We know they 13 make a difference now, and long-term it's going to be more 14 important to us. Besides the programs that AACOG funds, we 15 also operate a medical equipment lending service through 16 that area. Folks will bring us shower chairs and canes and 17 walkers, and we lend them out at no charge. We'll just 18 pretty much be a central point for folks to drop things off. 19 That stays extremely busy. We also have volunteers who do 20 daily reassurance phone calls to folks. Sometimes it's 21 arranged so that they call us, or sometimes we call them, 22 just so that there is a human contact every day to say, "Hi, 23 how are you doing? What's going on?" We do about 1,300 of 24 those annually. That's something that our volunteers really 25 look forward to doing. 6-13-05 19 1 We also have help for family caregivers. 2 This is an area that hasn't been widely discussed in our 3 community. We know most of the family caregivers are 4 spouses, and they're elderly themselves. There's not a lot 5 of support for these folks who have the responsibility of 6 taking care of a loved one 24/7. We have an on-site program 7 at the center called Take Five, which is designed for those 8 who have early Alzheimer's or other forms of dementia or 9 advanced Parkinson's, any kind of a disorder that keeps them 10 from being on their own safely. Their loved one can bring 11 them to the center. They have activities in the morning, 12 they eat lunch with us, and they're ready to go home about 13 2 o'clock in the afternoon. When their loved one is in the 14 Take Five club, that family caregiver has four or five hours 15 where they can schedule their own doctor's appointments or 16 run errands, or just rest. We offer that two days a week. 17 We hope to expand that into five days a week. It is not a 18 program that is supported by any government funding, so we 19 do charge $30 a session for that service. We have about 12 20 families that are involved in that now. Over the course of 21 time that we've offered this program, we've served about 100 22 families in this community. 23 Once their loved one is no longer capable of 24 participating in a group setting like Take Five, we have the 25 CISS program, which is Caregivers In-home Support Service. 6-13-05 20 1 We have volunteers who are trained to go in and provide 2 respite in the home. They can be there for a couple of 3 hours. We have beepers that we can give the family member 4 if they wish to leave so that we can contact them if there's 5 any issue. This was developed with a grant from the 6 National Family Caregivers Association a couple of years 7 ago. We have about 12 volunteers who go out and provide 8 this service right now, which is really a godsend to many of 9 those folks. A lot of times that family caregiver will just 10 take a nap while our volunteer is there, because they're 11 comfortable and know that their loved one's going to be 12 monitored. 13 We've worked with the churches in town to do 14 another group of visitation, which is called our Good 15 Samaritans. These folks go into some of the homebound, 16 isolated elderly who really just need some companionship. 17 This has been ongoing for a while. I think we have about 15 18 to 20 volunteers who make visitation on a regular basis, so 19 those are all the things that are involved in our 20 independent living service, and usually when I go out and 21 make presentations in the community, folks are just amazed 22 that we do all this. We really do have a love for our 23 seniors, and especially those who have become known to us at 24 the center, who have maybe been very involved in our on-site 25 activities. They'll have a health problem that will force 6-13-05 21 1 them to stay at home, so we still want them to be part of 2 what's going on and support them, and especially support 3 their families. 4 Last, but not least, is our Activities 5 Program, and this is probably some of the traditional things 6 that you would think of when you think of the senior center. 7 We have more than 40 groups that are all led by volunteers. 8 We divide these into two separate areas, more or less. 9 There are those that work to produce income for the center, 10 and there are those that just participate in the social side 11 of what we do. Our income-producing volunteers run our 12 thrift shop. Our Yesterday and Today thrift shop is very, 13 very busy. We hope to expand that in the future. We know 14 that thrift shops do very well in this community, and we 15 feel that's a great way to offset some of our operating 16 expenses. We also have volunteers who recycle cards. We 17 have quilters that quilt on consignment. We have volunteers 18 to come in and bake pies in the afternoon when our kitchen 19 is finished with lunch. Right around the holidays, that's 20 been a great program for us. And then our travel service is 21 also run by volunteers, and is a great entree to our center 22 for younger seniors who perhaps don't see themselves ever 23 coming to a senior center, but they like to go on a trip. 24 They just came -- they're just coming back from Niagara 25 Falls right now. That's a very, very active service, and it 6-13-05 22 1 generates income for us. 2 On the recreational side, we have -- oh, man, 3 you name it. Everything from exercise to tai chi to yoga to 4 every kind of dance lesson that you could imagine, computer 5 classes, foreign language classes, discussion groups. A 6 number of clubs like A.A.R.P. meet at our center. It's 7 active from 8:00 in the morning till about 9:30 at night, so 8 it keeps us hopping. We don't ask for payment for these 9 activities. We, again, suggest a donation of $2 each time 10 someone comes and participates at our center to try and 11 offset some of our operating expense. Part of the Older 12 Americans Act requires that there not be memberships, so we 13 don't have a membership; it's not an exclusive club. We 14 have folks from all walks of life that are involved with us, 15 and all economic backgrounds, from homemakers to retired 16 engineers and physicians. And, you know, those are just the 17 ladies I'm talking about. 18 So, that kind of gives you a quick overview 19 of our services. Our Board of Directors is made up of 18 20 community leaders. Jacques Duhr is our president right now. 21 Walter Schellhase is our vice president. Don Cochran is our 22 secretary, and Louise Kirby is our Treasurer. These folks 23 are working very hard with me right now to raise money for 24 our new building. You probably know we started a capital 25 campaign. We are trying to raise $4 million to build a new 6-13-05 23 1 building over on Guadalupe Street. I'm asked frequently, 2 "Well, why do you need a new building?" And the answer is 3 very simple. I think y'all know, 'cause you look at county 4 demographics, that 31 percent of our community right now is 5 age 60 and older. We know that that is only going to grow 6 over time. We're maxed out where we are. It's phenomenal 7 what our staff does with the space that we've got. We have 8 limited parking with our building. They're expensive to 9 operate. Right now I say a little prayer every day when 10 lunchtime comes, because we have folks crossing Jefferson 11 Street, and nobody slows down on Jefferson Street. 12 So, there are -- there are a host of reasons 13 why we need the building. Long-term, we also need the 14 support of the community. We are really characterizing this 15 new building as more of a community center, not just a 16 senior center. We will have the availability of renting the 17 space for reunions, different kinds of meetings. There's a 18 private dining room that we hope to attract some of the 19 service clubs on a regular basis to our program. We're 20 looking at offering evening meals, so when someone comes to 21 the Dietert Center and has dinner, then they're supporting 22 our senior lunch program. We really are going to need the 23 support of the community, because we know, long-term, the 24 government funding is going to dry up. As many times as 25 we've heard that that's not going to be the case, I don't 6-13-05 24 1 think it's prudent for us to plan that there's always going 2 to be an AACOG safety net there. That's why your support is 3 really, really important to us long-term, because we're 4 going to need it. 5 The capital campaign itself is progressing 6 well. We have up to 62 percent of our funds either 7 committed or in-hand. Part of that is proceeds from our 8 property that we sold on Sidney Baker Street and Jefferson. 9 That whole section was sold to Mr. John Miller early last 10 year, and he has been gracious to let us stay with a 11 three-year lease where we are right now, so we can operate 12 and raise money, but we need to be out of there by March of 13 2007. So, we need to break ground early next year, if not 14 this fall. We have commissioned a construction document; 15 Peter Lewis is our architect. So, we're trying to get a 16 real good handle on exactly how much we need to raise, but 17 we intend to move forward with the project. We are doing a 18 lot of different kinds of fundraising in the area, and you 19 should know that a lot of our participants have been very 20 involved in that process. We published a cookbook that our 21 volunteers are selling. We've got brick sales. We have our 22 quilters who are raffling a quilt; they hope to make $1,500 23 by this August, and they're close to it right now. So many 24 of our participants are getting involved in the fundraising 25 to the level that they're able to. 6-13-05 25 1 All of the local foundations have been very 2 generous in their support of our building campaign, and 3 we're also applying for grants outside of the community as 4 well, so we're leaving no rock unturned as far as getting 5 funds to build a building. But we're excited about it. 6 It's something that's needed for this community, and we know 7 it's going to happen. That's a quick overview. Can I 8 answer any questions? Y'all's eyes are kind of glazed over. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have a question -- 10 no, it was very interesting. There were some things I 11 didn't know. I have a question. The question is, what is a 12 senior? And the reason I ask that, I was recently a member 13 of a group of about 20 that went to Cici's for dinner, and I 14 got a discount price on my meal because I'm a senior in 15 their eyes, and I was just wondering what -- a young guy 16 like me is considered a senior? And, by the way, you may be 17 interested to -- Judge Brown and Buddy Hierholzer's in the 18 back row back there; I'm sure they came to hear what you had 19 to present as well. 20 MS. WOODS: Because they're seniors? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, definitely. No 22 question. (Laughter.) But I'm not. What is a senior? 60? 23 70? 80? 65? 24 MS. WOODS: Well, it depends on who you talk 25 to. You know, the whole definition of seniors is changing 6-13-05 26 1 because, you know, guess what? The Pepsi generation is 2 hitting their 50's. If you're 50 and older, A.A.R.P. says 3 you're a senior. If you're 55 and older, that's kind of 4 where some of the senior discounts start with -- you know, 5 when you go to restaurants or I think at the mall, it's 55 6 and above. Because of my health care background, I tend to 7 think 65, of course, but I'm 53, so, you know -- but, you 8 know, it really does beg the question, and that's one of the 9 things that has concerned us in our planning, especially for 10 the new building, is that folks that are now in their 50's 11 and in their 60's are still very much involved with careers. 12 I mean, long-term, all of us are trying to figure out, you 13 know, will retirement exist for us as it does right now for 14 folks in their '70's and '80's and 90's? I'm here to tell 15 you, it's not. So, what does that mean for a center like 16 us? We're viewing the new building as the Dietert Center or 17 the Dietert Community Center, because we know that people 18 who are currently in their 50's and 60's do not only not see 19 themselves right now as seniors; they're never going to see 20 themselves as seniors, and we're redefining what aging 21 means. When you think about your grandparents at your age, 22 you're a whole lot younger, aren't you? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, they were old. 24 (Laughter.) Used to be really old. 25 MS. WOODS: Well, you know, they're saying 6-13-05 27 1 that 50 is the new 30. But, you know, that's mostly because 2 those of us who said, you know, life ends after 30 are -- 3 are reaching their 50's. But it really is a fascinating 4 dynamic when you look at our country. I mean, the baby 5 boomers have always changed whatever era they lived in, and 6 aging is not going to be any different. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 8 MS. WOODS: And I think in this community, we 9 are blessed with active retirees. I mean, they come here 10 because they want to play golf or they want to hunt or be 11 involved in the outdoors, and that's not going to change. 12 But nobody can escape the challenge of aging. I mean, I'm 13 sure when y'all get up every morning, there are a few little 14 aches and pains you didn't recognize yesterday. I know I 15 have them. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let me introduce 17 myself, Commissioner. I am a senior. (Laughter.) 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: See about getting some 19 of those walkers rented pretty soon. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I've got one; just 21 don't bring it to court. Let me just lend a word or two to 22 Tina's support. On behalf of the -- of what I -- what I 23 witnessed and participated in in AACOG, she mentioned the 24 recent monitoring by AACOG of the food program, basically I 25 think of the congregate meals and the Meals on Wheels, and 6-13-05 28 1 they were found to be in extraordinarily good shape in what 2 they do, and they do it very well, and they do it for a 3 number of people that she told you. But the activities as a 4 whole, and not only the meals and the congregates -- Meals 5 on Wheels and the congregates, but all of the activities 6 that Dietert does, are very, very well received by AACOG, 7 and are among the top tier of everything that AACOG funds, 8 so you should be proud of what they do. They do it well, 9 and we thank you for coming to court today to tell us about 10 it. 11 MS. WOODS: Sure. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions for 13 Ms. Woods? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. Very 15 informative. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: We appreciate that. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thank you. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner, I'm often told 19 that our age as perceived by others oftentimes has a lot to 20 do with the number of miles we have on us. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've heard that. 22 But -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's why I'm so 24 young, then. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's why Buster is so 6-13-05 29 1 old. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Uh-oh, that did it. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Let's digress, if we 4 can. I think we have our -- I think we have our 4-H people 5 here that wanted to kind of tell us what they had going on. 6 So, Mr. Walston, if -- if you'll take off and -- 7 MR. WALSTON: Thank you, Judge Tinley. If 8 you don't mind, I'd like to ask these youngsters to come up 9 forward. Krystal, if y'all will line up across here? 10 Appreciate y'all's taking time to give me the opportunity to 11 recognize these youngsters. And I -- I've actually been in 12 Extension for 17 years. This year we had 12 young men and 13 women that went to state 4-H Roundup this last year -- this 14 last week. We had three teams, which is a wool and mohair 15 team, a wool -- wool judging team, as well as a mohair 16 evaluation team, and a grass I.D. team. Unfortunately, some 17 of those kids couldn't be here with us today, with school 18 vacations and family vacations and -- and jobs, but we'd 19 like to recognize these kids. Each one of these teams all 20 placed in the top three in their respective contests, which 21 I can tell you, that's the first time I've ever had that 22 happen. And if you place in the top three in your category, 23 you get to walk across the stage at Texas A & M College 24 Station; you're recognized in front of about 3,000 people, 25 so this is quite an accomplishment. 6-13-05 30 1 Our wool judging team is made up of Bryan 2 Weaver here on my far right. Bryan was our third-high 3 individual in the contest. He's -- he was our first-high 4 individual in the Val Verde and the Del Rio contest. And I 5 can say that with a majority of these kids, this is actually 6 their second year for judging, so it's quite an 7 accomplishment. Chance Muehlstein is also on our wool 8 judging team. Ashley Frizzell is also on our wool judging 9 team, and Krystal Morey is on our wool judging team, and so 10 we appreciate those -- those youngsters. Dub Walston on the 11 end was third-high individual in the mohair contest. This 12 is his third year there. Last year he was second-high 13 individual, and the previous year he was second-high in the 14 wool judging contest. So, as far as our remaining members 15 on our mohair team, we had Carissa Saur, Brad Behrens, and 16 Shane Albrecht all made up our mohair judging team. They 17 helped out Dub, and they were the second-high overall team 18 in the contest. Just missed out beating Sutton County, 19 which was the high team. 20 Our grass I.D. team, which is coached by 21 Marybeth Bauer and Steve Bauer, had Lance Bauer, their son. 22 He was second-high individual in the contest, and was -- 23 actually, it was a tie for the first-high, and he was beat 24 out in the spelling area, so he -- he had a rough row to hoe 25 there. Kristen Nelson is also on our grass I.D., Elias 6-13-05 31 1 Garcia and Hunter Dieringer, so we had an excellent group of 2 kids. I think they all enjoyed it, and hopefully we'll be 3 taking them back again next year. So, I just -- I 4 appreciate y'all taking the time to -- letting me recognize 5 these kids. 6 (Discussion off the record.) 7 MR. WALSTON: We have two methods 8 demonstrations, too. Lance Bauer -- 9 MS. BOYD: For the first time in the 13 years 10 I've been here, the first time we've had methods 11 administrations go in the contest. I was -- we were excited 12 about that. So -- 13 MR. WALSTON: Lance Bauer had a sheep and 14 goat demonstration, and he was fourth in the sheep and goat 15 demonstration. Hunter Dieringer also had a demonstration on 16 scoring trophy whitetail and exotics, and he was 9th out of 17 24. So, again, this is a statewide contest. We have kids 18 from all over the state of Texas coming in. I would also 19 like to mention, Kerr County 4-H, with the help of Laurinda 20 Boyd, presented a grant to the 4-H Alumni Foundation, and we 21 received a $500 grant. That was the grant awarded out of 16 22 applicants, and that money will be going towards -- part of 23 it towards recruitment of 4-H alumni, as well as for the 24 B.C.I. program. So, we appreciate -- appreciate y'all 25 giving us this time. 6-13-05 32 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you very much. 2 (Applause.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Good job. 4 MS. BOYD: Why don't y'all go on either side; 5 I'll take a picture of you. 6 MR. WALSTON: If y'all have any questions for 7 them, feel free to ask questions. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Who was your 3rd grade 9 teacher? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Don't go asking about 11 spelling. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No spelling. What was 13 the word, "sheep"? 14 MS. BOYD: Lance kind of got a lot of ribbing 15 about that all day long. Guys, scoot in a little bit for 16 me. And I will be sending this today to both of the papers, 17 just 'cause I know y'all were writing furiously. 18 MR. WALSTON: Krystal, you and Dub scoot 19 over. Y'all are covering up -- 20 MS. BOYD: Ashley, scoot in. There you go. 21 There you go, all right. Now we got it. Thank y'all for 22 your continued support. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you for coming. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's go to Item 2, if 25 we might. Item 2 is request that Commissioners Court 6-13-05 33 1 declare unused furniture partitions as surplus and authorize 2 the sale of same. There you are, Mr. County Attorney. 3 MR. EMERSON: Yes, sir. As y'all know, the 4 remodeling is almost complete downstairs in our office, and 5 it's been my understanding from Maintenance that they do not 6 have a use, nor would they prefer not to have a use for the 7 temporary partitions that were previously used in the 8 office, and as such, we would request that the Court declare 9 them as surplus, allowing Maintenance to sell them for the 10 benefit of the County. There's also some old law books that 11 are sitting in the old holding area where the old county 12 jail used to be. Those have not been updated in lord knows 13 how many years, have no use to the County, but they do have 14 a market value to an attorney that wants to make his office 15 look good, and we would ask that the County declare those as 16 surplus and allow the County to sell them for the benefit of 17 the taxpayers. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move that we approve the 19 unused furniture, partitions, and law books as surplus, as 20 requested by the County Attorney. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: I assume that includes 23 authorization that they be sold? I think -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: -- that follows surplus, 6-13-05 34 1 doesn't it? Motion made and seconded for approval of the 2 agenda item. Any question or discussion? All in favor of 3 the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Thank 8 you, Mr. Emerson. 9 MR. EMERSON: Thank you. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, Rex. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Next item on the agenda is to 12 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on a 13 resolution establishing the month of July as Flood Awareness 14 Month in Kerr County. Commissioner? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Our good friends 16 George and Mary Virginia Holekamp remind us annually that 17 July needs to be declared as Flood Awareness Month, and that 18 we have one of those untamed rivers that run right through 19 the heart of -- of Kerr County that sometimes reminds us 20 dramatically what that's all about. So, we have a 21 resolution in front of you and some backup information. 22 George? Mary Virginia? Which one of you would like to 23 speak to the issue for a second? We expected some R.C. & D. 24 folks, but Mary Virginia said she is the designated hitter. 25 So -- 6-13-05 35 1 MS. HOLEKAMP: Bertha Venegas is our 2 coordinator for Alamo area R.C. & D., and she's in Wilson 3 County; this is happening in all the counties, and that's 4 why she couldn't be here today. July will be Flood 5 Awareness Month in the 10 counties that make up Alamo 6 R.C.& D. The counties are Atascosa, Bandera, Bexar, Frio, 7 Guadalupe, Kendall, Kerr, Medina, Wilson, and these are 8 counties in central and south Texas. Proclamations are 9 being made in each county, and educational material will be 10 distributed about floods and floodplain management. Each 11 county will have a different -- different project. Some 12 counties are having workshops about testing -- testing the 13 water -- testing water, and others will be checking 14 contamination in the floodplain. Many of the counties are 15 not nearly as advanced in this as Kerr County is. 16 In Kerr County, for the Flood Awareness 17 Month, we will have a program at the Riverside Nature Center 18 on Thursday, July 14th, at 6 o'clock. It will be a forum 19 type; we have four speakers -- about four speakers, and 20 there will be time for question and answers. So far, an 21 NRCS person will discuss range practices that benefit the 22 floodplain, and someone from the Texas Department of 23 Transportation will discuss flood warnings and signs, and we 24 have two more things on the -- that we plan to have. 25 There'll be refreshments afterwards, and we have educational 6-13-05 36 1 material that people will be given to take back to their 2 groups. And we want to thank the Commissioners Court for 3 their longtime support of this project. Commissioner 4 Baldwin has helped from the very start. How long ago was 5 that? Almost 10 years? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Long time. I'm now a 7 senior citizen. (Laughter.) 8 MS. HOLEKAMP: But we just thank you for your 9 help, and you've helped R.C.& D. many times. I especially 10 want to mention, when we had a convention here, we were so 11 proud of Kerr County because it's a fundraiser for R.C.& D., 12 and usually they hire a motivational speaker and an 13 auctioneer, and we didn't have to hire either person in Kerr 14 County. Commissioner Baldwin was the auctioneer, and did a 15 fine job for us. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 17 MS. HOLEKAMP: We thank you for what all 18 you've done. Okay. Commissioner Letz, he was our Kerr 19 County representative on the Kerr County R.C.& D. for a 20 number of years, helped set up an office that we had for a 21 time here, and we acquired a few -- a few grants for fire 22 departments, held a few programs teaching you how to write 23 grants, grantwriter seminars, and we thank you for your 24 continued support. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. 6-13-05 37 1 MS. HOLEKAMP: Commissioner Nicholson, do you 2 know you were involved in the very first flood awareness 3 program that we had? I kept a scrapbook, you know, and you 4 wrote a letter. You wrote -- 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm one of those 6 older citizens who's losing his memory. 7 MS. HOLEKAMP: You wrote a little letter in 8 support of Flood Awareness Week, and we -- we thank you for 9 your early support and your -- your continued support. And 10 Bill Williams helped with the thing last year, and maybe the 11 time before, and he's on the committee for this time. He 12 set up this meeting, and we certainly do thank you for that. 13 And Judge Tinley serves on our council, on our R.C.& D. 14 council, and we appreciate having your name on the list of 15 County Judges who support R.C.& D. in this area. And also, 16 George invited him to be the moderator -- 17 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm going to have to pass that 18 to Commissioner Williams; I'm scheduled to be out of town. 19 I told George that I'd try and find him somebody if -- and 20 Commissioner Williams is -- is a great moderator. He's a 21 professional moderator. 22 MS. HOLEKAMP: Yeah, won't that be good? He 23 -- he can field all those hard questions. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, yeah. 25 MS. HOLEKAMP: Well, we -- we just thank you 6-13-05 38 1 so much for your support. And I do believe that's the end 2 of my story. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let me make a 4 comment, Judge, if I might. In the packet of materials that 5 I presented to the Court in support of this resolution is a 6 floodplain management pamphlet which is prepared by 7 R.C.& D., and it's really very good. It tells a story and 8 -- of floods and helps us be aware and tells us what we can 9 do and where we can go for resource material and so forth. 10 And while I have Ms. Hardin's attention, please ask Mr. Odom 11 to contact me with respect to Flood Awareness Month, because 12 I'd like for him to be a participant on that panel. If I'm 13 going to moderate it, he's going to be there too. So, if 14 you'll ask him to give me a call for July 14th, we will 15 enlist his services as the floodplain manager for Kerr 16 County on this panel of experts. 17 MS. HARDIN: I would also like to say that on 18 July the 12th, we're going to have a FEMA workshop where the 19 people from TexDOT will come and present to the Court what 20 the floodplain administration program is all about. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: With all that, Judge, 22 I would move the resolution to -- to proclaim in Kerr County 23 Flood Awareness Month for the month of July. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second, with a slight 25 typo correction. 6-13-05 39 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made -- 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. There are 3 some, yeah. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: In the first sentence, 5 "Resource" should be capitalized. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How'd we let that get 8 by, Ms. Mitchell? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 10 discussion on the motion? All in favor -- 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I just want to 12 express a little bit of frustration that I wish more could 13 be done on flood awareness. I think one person has already 14 drowned in the Guadalupe this year down -- it was in the 15 Guadalupe-Blanco River Authority area on the Guadalupe, and 16 we'd just be lucky if more -- another one doesn't drown this 17 year. Just seems to happen every year, and most of them 18 seem to be preventable. So, any -- you know, anything we 19 can do to increase awareness of the real dangers of that -- 20 that river can be terribly dangerous. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We might start by 22 trying to drum up a crowd for this forum that they're going 23 to have at the Riverside Nature Center on July 14th. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. That's all. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 6-13-05 40 1 discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion, 2 signify by raise goes your right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Thank 7 you very much. Let's move on to Item 5, if we might, 8 consider/discuss renewal for the Precinct 4 and Tax 9 Office -- Precinct 4 J.P. and Tax Office annex building, and 10 authorize payment of the June balance. Mr. Holekamp? I 11 think the Court charged Mr. Holekamp with trying to get this 12 thing resolved and worked out and a renewal of a lease 13 agreement accomplished, and -- 14 MR. HOLEKAMP: Y'all have that -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: -- he has done so. 16 MR. HOLEKAMP: Y'all have that in your 17 packet, I believe. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 19 MR. HOLEKAMP: We finally accomplished 20 getting a lease agreed upon, and I believe all parties are 21 satisfied with it. Some of the language as far as the 22 facility -- destruction of premises, eminent domain, 23 lessor's remedies on default -- those are pretty much just 24 general language. But we are going to do some work in the 25 back portion of that office. There'll be a minimal amount 6-13-05 41 1 of remodeling that is going to be done at our expense. So, 2 I felt like we got a pretty good lease on this particular 3 facility, comparing it to other facilities in the area. 4 So -- and part of this motion is that the agreement was -- 5 is that this -- this lease would start June 1st, so I'm 6 asking as part of the motion to go ahead and authorize that 7 $250 additional, and then next month it'll be picked up as 8 the amount. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Has the County 10 Attorney reviewed the -- 11 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes. Yes. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for approval. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 14 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, he approved it. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 16 approval of the agenda item. Any question or discussion? 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I've got a question. 18 The provision in Paragraph 3 that outlines the 19 responsibilities for the cost of maintenance. 20 MR. HOLEKAMP: Mm-hmm? 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Is that standard 22 kind of language? 23 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Is that typically 25 what you see as a divisional responsibility? 6-13-05 42 1 MR. HOLEKAMP: That's, yes, sir, pretty 2 standard. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Are Judge Ragsdale 4 and Ms. Rector both on board with this? 5 MR. HOLEKAMP: That is correct. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Are they happy to be 7 there two more years? 8 MR. HOLEKAMP: Ecstatic. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Great. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: The -- the roof and related 11 repairs are complete, are they not? 12 MR. HOLEKAMP: That is correct. We have some 13 drainage issues in the back of the building that Mr. Priour 14 and I agreed that we would address those when we start 15 getting some of that stuff out of the building that he owns, 16 and then I think there's stuff that Mr. Ragsdale said he 17 might want to take home with him or something. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: But everybody's on the same 19 page? 20 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 22 MR. HOLEKAMP: And, Commissioner Nicholson, 23 maybe I was being a little facetious about "ecstatic," but 24 both -- both of them are well aware, and neither one voiced 25 an opposition at all, because they realize the importance of 6-13-05 43 1 being prudent with our dollars. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, it's a handy 3 location. It's -- it's centrally located for Precinct 4, 4 and it's used to some extent by other people outside of 5 Precinct 4. I spent some time in there, and I can see 6 that -- that the citizens appreciate the convenience and 7 accessibility of it. So, if those -- if the J.P. and 8 Ms. Rector are happy, I'm happy. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I think keeping the 10 location there, people are used to that location. If we're 11 able to maintain that, I think that's a plus also. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I appreciate the work 13 that Glenn did to work out what -- it seemed we were in kind 14 of divergent mode for a while, having some real problems, 15 and he got through all that, and we have a deal that's more 16 economic than the other alternatives we were looking at. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thank you, Glenn. 18 This wasn't easy. You're a peacemaker. 19 MR. HOLEKAMP: Thank you. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Thrown into the breach, as it 21 were. Any further question or discussion on the motion? 22 All in favor of that motion, signify by raising their right 23 hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same time -- same 6-13-05 44 1 sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. It's 4 a few minutes before 10 o'clock; however, we've got the 5 parties here. The item on the agenda for that time is a 6 presentation by Gretchen Jahn, C.E.O. of Mooney Airplane 7 Company, on activities and happenings with that 8 organization. Commissioner Williams? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Judge. 10 Commissioner Letz and I had the opportunity to hear Gretchen 11 Jahn make a presentation on the activities and happenings at 12 Mooney Airplane Company at a recent Airport Board meeting. 13 We read in the local paper about some of the successes that 14 are occurring there, and I thought it would be helpful if 15 the Court and the public at large had an opportunity to hear 16 firsthand from Ms. Jahn exactly what's taking place. Just a 17 bit of introduction about her. Gretchen Jahn brings -- do 18 you pronounce it Yahn or Jahn? 19 MS. JAHN: Jahn. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Jahn. I had an old 21 friend named Jahn, so I thought I'd better ask about that. 22 MS. JAHN: My older brother pronounces it 23 Yahn, so we have an independent... 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: She brings years of 25 experience to manufacturing and leadership to Kerr County at 6-13-05 45 1 Mooney. Before joining here, Gretchen had her own 2 consulting company and guided manufacturing and other firms 3 in process and productivity improvements, ERP system 4 implementation. She has held executive positions at MDC 5 Holdings, Home American Mortgage, MIS and so forth and so 6 on, and she has received her Bachelor of Arts with honors at 7 Lawrence University and her Masters from the University of 8 Colorado. She obtained her certificate in Integrated 9 Resource Management from the American Production and 10 Inventory Control Society, and I might add, she is an avid 11 pilot of 20 years and is a member of the 99's, the Colorado 12 Pilots Association, and on the board of the Air Race 13 Classic, Incorporated. And if you read the recent -- the 14 newspaper recently, now that I think about it, sometime this 15 week, Gretchen is leaving and embarking on a cross-country 16 flight in the company-owned Ovation 2 in the 2,000-mile Air 17 Race Classic. And not only is she a plane maker C.E.O. 18 flying the race, but her copilot is 87-year-old Ruby Sheldon 19 of Phoenix. That would be a senior, Commissioner. We're 20 happy to have you with us for a brief report on Mooney. 21 It's a pleasure to introduce you here. 22 MS. JAHN: Thank you very much, and it's a 23 pleasure to be here. I appreciate the invitation. And 24 it's -- I've really enjoyed being in Kerrville and all the 25 good work that all of you do here, and it's great to be part 6-13-05 46 1 of this community. Mooney is -- we are doing great things, 2 and wanted to have the opportunity to let you know all the 3 different things that we are in the process of doing at the 4 company, and, you know, perhaps some things that we plan to 5 do in the future so that hopefully all of you can help 6 participate in our growth. But we have, let's see, 7 currently 350 people roughly at the plant, and we, in fact, 8 have a night shift of about 124 folks who are working on our 9 second shift. We expect to be expanding both of those as 10 our sales grow. Right now, we're in the very, very happy 11 position of having very strong sales, and our problem is 12 making planes to satisfy it. That's a great place to be. 13 In fact, let's see, we are getting very close 14 to being sold out for the year, our production. If you read 15 the papers earlier this year, you know that our plans are to 16 produce about 100 airplanes, which is more than double what 17 we did last year. Last year we produced 36. And just, you 18 know, so that you know, we -- we talk a lot about sales, but 19 in reality, sales are taking orders from customers. 20 Customers sign a piece of paper to buy our airplanes, which 21 sell roughly for, you know, $450,000. Then we take some 22 time to produce those airplanes, and when the customer 23 actually comes and takes delivery of them, that's when we, 24 in fact, get paid for it, and that's when the customer takes 25 it and flies off with it. So, our recent quarterly report, 6-13-05 47 1 you'll note that we delivered 20 airplanes this past 2 quarter; January, February, March. That means that the 3 people came and took delivery of those planes and flew away 4 with them. That resulted in about $9.4 million worth of 5 revenue for those 20 sales. And we also took 13 orders for 6 new airplanes. Things are going great in that regard. 7 One of the things that is really helping to 8 stimulate interest in our airplanes is a thing that we have 9 going on right now known as the Freedom Tour. And this is 10 where we've targeted over 30 cities in the United States, 11 and we tour with our airplanes to those cities. We notify 12 all the pilots in the area to please come, take a look at 13 what it is that we're producing, and for those who are 14 qualified buyers, we give them demo rides. And, in fact, we 15 have a very high percentage of people who take demo rides 16 who actually buy our airplanes, which is also a great place 17 to be. Helping us in that process are both our direct sales 18 people who work for the company, as well as Mooney team 19 representatives, which are basically dealers. We have a 20 dealer in -- in Florida who handles, you know, a good part 21 of the southeast. We have a dealer in California, one up in 22 Canada, a couple internationally, and then the rest here in 23 the United States are direct sales people, and we even 24 recently hired a sales manager who is based here in 25 Kerrville, flies out of here. These -- as I said, they 6-13-05 48 1 stimulate a lot of interest in our airplane. 2 How many of you have been to tour the plant? 3 We would love to have you come back and see what the plant 4 looks like today. If you came before, you might have seen 5 things looking rather run down, cluttered and so on. We've 6 had a facelift. We've painted the buildings. We've cleaned 7 up a lot of things. There's a program in manufacturing 8 called "Five S," and there are five S's for things like 9 sweep, sort, and so on. That allowed us to move a lot of 10 things that we had cluttered either into storage or into 11 inventory so we could really see what it is that we were 12 doing in building airplanes. This is a great manufacturing 13 concept that I think has helped us to improve our focus on 14 building high-quality airplanes. Now, how many of you have 15 actually flown in a Mooney? Good. Two, okay. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I want to. 17 MS. JAHN: All right. Let's see if we can't 18 coordinate. I'd love to give you a ride. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 20 MS. JAHN: If you're lucky, you may even have 21 a ride in my airplane. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll take it. Can we 23 bring the Sheriff with us? Just -- 24 MS. JAHN: Be happy to. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In the back seat. 6-13-05 49 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. 2 MS. JAHN: Be happy to. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Buster would try and 4 shove me out of that thing, I know it. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You got it. 6 MS. JAHN: The airplanes that we're building 7 today have the most modern avionics available in the 8 industry. They have what's known as a glass cockpit, which 9 is essentially two video screens. They replace all of the 10 various dials and readouts and so on that you see in 11 traditional airplanes with two glass readouts, one of which 12 has a video display of the engine and flight instruments, 13 and the other of which has a video display of airports, 14 navigation, you know, obstacles, things of this sort. And 15 it takes a little bit to transition from the traditional 16 instruments to the new ones, but once you do, you're hooked. 17 It's -- it makes a world of difference in your flying and in 18 -- in my opinion, in the safety of flight. So, we would 19 love to show you what that looks like. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The instruments are 21 made by the Gorman Company? 22 MS. JAHN: Garmin. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Garmin Company. 24 MS. JAHN: We are in partnership with Garmin. 25 They have been very supportive. I could not ask for a 6-13-05 50 1 better partnership with them. Last fall, when we were going 2 through the certification of the aircraft, you know, there 3 were, you know, some things that always come up with 4 brand-new equipment, building their equipment into ours, 5 that delayed our ability to get the airplane certified and 6 to deliver it to customers. But we wanted to make sure that 7 it was absolutely the safest implementation, that there were 8 no bugs, because a good part of it is, in addition to the 9 hardware, the software that goes in it, and much of that 10 software is specific to our airplane, so to make sure that 11 it was all working correctly. I must say that since we have 12 begun delivering these airplanes, the number of problems 13 that we have had with Garmin instrumentation has been very, 14 very low. It has been outstanding. Outstanding 15 partnership. But people really love these airplanes, and 16 now that I've -- you know, I have one and I fly it, I really 17 see why. They fly the dickens out of it. 18 Many of the people who buy our airplanes are 19 business people, and they use the aircraft for business. 20 They fly to visit suppliers, to visit customers, to go from 21 plant to plant, office to office. And, you know, as a 22 result, you know, we need to make sure that we provide an 23 aircraft that is very appealing to the businessmen, and we 24 do so with both the Garmin instrumentation as well as, you 25 know, the very high-quality interiors that we have. This 6-13-05 51 1 airplane flies at high altitudes, up very close to the 2 flight levels that you would fly in commercially, which is a 3 fabulous thing to do with an airplane that seats four 4 people. Folks that buy them use it, as I said, on business, 5 and are attracted to it because it allows them to bypass 6 many of the hassles of commercial aviation, you know, where 7 you would fly from major city to major city, and, of course, 8 have to go through the various things that -- that you do to 9 be able to board an aircraft, plus then rent cars on either 10 end. Whereas with a general aviation airplane like Mooney, 11 you can fly directly from, you know, the airport that you 12 are based at to where it is that you need to do business. 13 So, this is a very -- very much a way of 14 supporting the overall economic condition of the country, as 15 well as the fact that we build airplanes and are based here 16 in Kerrville. We are very much involved in the economics 17 locally. So, I'd be happy to entertain any questions. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We appreciate you 19 being here, and I also want to introduce Robert Collier. 20 Robert's part of the executive staff of Mooney, and we 21 appreciate you being here and your participation at the 22 Airport Board as well, Robert. 23 MR. COLLIER: Thank you. Appreciate it. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I have one comment. 25 Ms. Jahn, it seems like all my adult life I've been hearing 6-13-05 52 1 about Mooney Aircraft, and usually from friends of mine who 2 own Cessnas and were dreaming about the day that someday 3 they might be able to trade up to a Mooney, so I'm proud 4 that such a high-quality company is in our community. But 5 the -- what's more important are those 350 good jobs you 6 provide. 7 MS. JAHN: Yes. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm hoping that 9 you'll have the problem of selling so many aircraft that 10 you'll have to add a third shift. 11 MS. JAHN: I would love that. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 13 MS. JAHN: I would love that. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thank you for being 15 here. 16 MS. JAHN: Thank you. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Appreciate you 18 coming. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Very much. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good luck in the 21 race. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I'd like to say 23 something about the gentleman that's with her. You know, 24 there are -- there are folks in this town that do things for 25 the community that we don't even know about. This guy does 6-13-05 53 1 probably as much -- as much, or if not, more than anybody I 2 know in this community, and we don't even know who he is. 3 He is a -- he's a scout leader, and he is -- being an old 4 Eagle Scout himself, he has produced who knows how many 5 Eagles in this community. How many did you have at your 6 ranch Saturday? 7 MR. COLLIER: 125. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How many Eagles? 9 MR. COLLIER: 33. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 33 Eagles in 11 Kerrville, Texas. And that's a phenomenon, in my opinion. 12 I remember a statement he made one time; he said the 13 definition -- if I get this wrong, don't worry about it. 14 (Laughter.) The definition of integrity is flying an F-16 15 off the hull and back on the hull of a ship in pitch dark. 16 And he's done that, and what a great guy, and super plus to 17 our community. I like old Robert Collier; he's a good guy. 18 MR. COLLIER: Thank you, Buster. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Tell us a little bit about 21 this competition that you're about to engage in. 22 MS. JAHN: Sure. The Air Race Classic has 23 been in existence for 28 years. It's a cross-country 24 handicap speed race for women only. It's essentially the 25 spiritual successor to the Powder Puff Derby. The route is 6-13-05 54 1 different every year. It's between 2,000 and 2,500 miles. 2 We have eight stops across the country. This year it is 3 sponsored by Purdue University, so we start and end in West 4 Lafayette, Indiana. I've been racing in this for 13 years, 5 14 years. I'm on the Board of Directors and the Treasurer 6 of the Air Race Classic. And, yes, Ruby Sheldon, who is my 7 copilot -- she's been my copilot for the last four years -- 8 she's 87 years old. She has more energy than I do. She 9 sits there and tells me what to do, and it's my job to do 10 it. But we make a great team. A great team. I've done 11 well in the race. I've done not so well in the race. This 12 year I'm planning on doing well. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good luck. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Good luck. 15 MS. JAHN: Thank you. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Best of luck to you. Thank 17 you very much for being here. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank y'all. Thank 19 you very much. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: The next item on the agenda is 21 Item 6, consider and discuss authorizing City of Kerrville 22 to temporarily use courtroom facilities of Kerr County to 23 conduct City of Kerrville Municipal Court, or entering into 24 other agreement or arrangement for utilization of Kerr 25 County facilities and/or personnel or officials to conduct 6-13-05 55 1 or assist in disposition of Kerrville Municipal Court cases. 2 I put this on the agenda not as an action item, but as most 3 of you know, the City of Kerrville is very, very limited in 4 their municipal court facilities. Approximately a year, 5 year and a half ago, thereabouts, there was an inquiry made 6 about possibly entering into some arrangement where the City 7 of Kerrville might use Kerr County facilities, or maybe even 8 entering into some sort of an arrangement where we would 9 contract to handle the cases for them. Not sure what 10 happened to that proposal; it just kind of waned away. But 11 the subject has recently come up again, and I put it on the 12 agenda to merely get the sense of the Court whether or not 13 they wanted to pursue it down to maybe something specific, 14 and if so, why, we can work it from that end. 15 There's some legal issues that I think there 16 was some concern about when we initially talked about the 17 proposal. I'm given to understand now that there are a 18 number of jurisdictions that have worked their way through 19 those legal issues and, in fact, are -- are handling those 20 cases on a contract basis, even though they're for a totally 21 different jurisdiction. On the short end, it might just be 22 a temporary use of facilities. On the long end, it could be 23 some indefinite arrangement whereby -- whereby Kerr County 24 would fully handle the municipal court program for the City 25 of Kerrville. But, like I say, I just wanted to get the 6-13-05 56 1 sense of the Court whether they wanted to proceed forward 2 and continue to explore and maybe see where we might go with 3 that idea. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, Judge, I -- I 5 have always approved of the concept of a partnership in this 6 area with the City of Kerrville. I was against it because 7 of the legal issues, and possibly constitutional issues, I 8 understand. But if we've worked through -- or someone else 9 has worked through those issues, I'm certainly in favor of 10 it. And there could be -- I tell you, of all these words 11 that you put in here, "entering into other agreement or 12 arrangement" jumped off the page at me. And I could see us 13 doing -- you know, if one -- as you said, we may take over 14 and do it all, County employees do it all, or just simply 15 provide space for the City to function. And a good 16 trade-off there would be possibly the -- the City Judge 17 participating in the rotation of magistrations or some such 18 issue as that. But I'm -- the concept of it, I like -- I 19 like a lot. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: As the Judge knows, 21 I've had discussions with not only the Judge, but Councilman 22 Carl Meek about this issue as well, and I think it really 23 kind of got cooking with respect to the possibility of using 24 Justice of the Peace 2's courtroom facility in the Law 25 Enforcement Center, which I heartily endorse, if we can work 6-13-05 57 1 through the logistics of it and the scheduling and so forth 2 and so on. So, conceptually, yes. I was disappointed 3 originally that we -- two years ago, when we first had this 4 initiative, and I think the County was the one that put 5 forth the initiative to integrate the municipal court 6 function somehow into our justice system -- justice of the 7 peace system. I was kind of disappointed that that didn't 8 take place, but now maybe it can and maybe it should. Maybe 9 it can't, but if not, I just want to let the Court know that 10 I, too, support the concept of -- of helping the City in 11 this particular endeavor finding space to conduct the 12 municipal court for such period of time as they need it 13 until they get their facility ready for themselves. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm a little confused, I 15 guess. I mean, I certainly support this, but have we 16 received a request to look at this again from the City? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: I was contacted, and I think 18 -- I think Bill was contacted. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Councilman Meek 20 called me about some of the issues regarding our space, what 21 we had available, scheduling, so forth and so on. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. I mean, I'm 23 certainly in favor of it, as I was originally, but I -- I 24 mean, I don't think we need to spend a lot of time on it 25 until the City Council looks at this and asks us to look at 6-13-05 58 1 it. I mean, I think there's a -- you know, it's good to 2 have an agenda to let everyone know that we're receptive to 3 doing this, but I think it's really -- it's a City Council 4 first move, as opposed to us doing anything at this time. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I agree. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I just -- like I say, I 7 don't have any specific proposal. The idea has been 8 broached by the leadership over at the City, and -- and I 9 just wanted to get the Court's sense on whether or not it 10 was something that -- something that we'd be willing to 11 listen to something more specific in the future. And I 12 certainly am, and -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Certainly. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: -- I thought the Court 15 probably would too. That's all we need to do on this 16 particular item, then, and we'll move forward. The next 17 timed item we have is a report from the City of Kerrville 18 Interim City Manager, Don Davis, on the EMS budget and 19 contract. Commissioner Baldwin has asked that this matter 20 be placed on the agenda. Commissioner Baldwin? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you very much. 22 I have asked Mr. Davis to come over and -- and make a 23 presentation on the budget and contract for the EMS 24 services. And I don't -- I don't see us, again, making any 25 kind of firm decision this day. Simply a visit and a 6-13-05 59 1 presentation, and hopefully that we have plenty of time for 2 question and answer. And, Mr. Davis, thank you very much. 3 I see you brought in your sidekick over there, Chief 4 Holloway, and I appreciate you doing that. Very wise man. 5 So, the floor is yours, sir. 6 MR. DAVIS: Thank you, Commissioner. Thank 7 you very much. My name is Don Davis, and I'm the Interim 8 City Manager for the City of Kerrville. Before we get on 9 this agenda, may I just respond real briefly as to your 10 previous agenda and say that we have had a couple of 11 meetings with Judge Tinley on this municipal court thing. 12 Commissioner Letz, I think you're -- you're exactly right. 13 It may be a little premature to be talking about anything. 14 I appreciate the Judge wanting to at least put y'all on 15 notice and give you heads-up. I think that we need to do a 16 lot of -- a lot more legwork on this. And, of course, we -- 17 it formally has not even been broached by the City Council 18 yet, so we're out in front of the Council, and that can be 19 somewhat dangerous, at least from my perspective. But we 20 appreciate y'all's attitude and willingness to at least take 21 a look at this thing, and let us -- let us do some more 22 work, and then hopefully in the near future, we'll get back 23 with you. I'd like to also go on the record as saying we -- 24 we appreciate all the County employees and staff that we met 25 with last week, and they were very hospitable and receptive. 6-13-05 60 1 We went out to Precinct 2 court, and -- and we appreciate 2 that, the attitude from everybody. 3 The matter at hand, as Commissioner Baldwin 4 said, that I'm here formally today on is to discuss the 5 emergency medical services agreement, and -- proposed 6 agreement. We had -- my predecessor submitted to the Court, 7 probably a month or so ago, a proposal, and since that time 8 I have received a couple of communiques and some questions. 9 And what I'd like to do, Commissioner Baldwin, if it's all 10 right with you, is just not spend a lot of time on -- on 11 these questions. We brought over answers Friday, and I 12 trust that all of you have received those. You've -- I'm 13 getting some -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, I have received -- 15 I have received them, and I haven't had time to get it out 16 to them. We'll discuss that later. 17 MR. DAVIS: Okay. Well, I apologize. I was 18 of the opinion -- I guess of the opinion that everyone had 19 received our responses to your -- to your questions. We had 20 questions from Commissioner Baldwin, and then also some 21 questions from Judge Tinley, and we have responded to each 22 of those questions, and I feel like in detail, and let me 23 just hurriedly go through the list. And I apologize, 24 gentlemen; this may be foreign to some of you, but 25 Commissioner Baldwin asked, first of all, for us to provide 6-13-05 61 1 some balance sheets. We have. We provided two sets -- I 2 mean, a balance sheet for our fiscal year that ended 3 September 30 of '04, and those, of course, are audited 4 numbers. We also then provided a balance sheet for the 5 current fiscal year through, I believe, May. And, 6 Commissioner, do you want to go through these things 7 individually, or -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I tell you, I 9 was really more proposed -- 10 MR. DAVIS: Or I can just answer questions 11 and highlight. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's probably the 13 route that we need to go. What I want to do -- I came in 14 and got my packet over the weekend, and this is the first 15 time I've seen this, so I really haven't had time to get it 16 to you guys, and I would like some more time to get this to 17 y'all and get it -- let you cipher through it. And a pretty 18 good stack of paper and a lot of information, and I 19 appreciate your -- you and your staff and Brian providing 20 this for us in a very timely manner. And then maybe with 21 this document, maybe we can have a -- a small workshop in a 22 couple of weeks and have a sit-down, and then go over these 23 issues in detail. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I -- 25 MR. DAVIS: Y'all's pleasure. 6-13-05 62 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess I haven't seen 2 that, and I really don't know what we have. Don, one of the 3 things I would like to see, and maybe you've provided it, is 4 I know Chief Holloway is aware that there is a very big 5 issue in the far eastern part of the county about getting 6 ambulance service to the far eastern part of the county, the 7 Hermann Sons area. We have -- Falling Water Subdivision has 8 exploded, and there are over 50 homes in that development, 9 and there's another new development with homes going in very 10 rapidly. All these homes, unfortunately -- or fortunately, 11 are in Kerr County, but the access is all out of Kendall 12 County to all of them. Commissioner Busby out of Kendall 13 County and myself have been trying to get some sort of 14 interlocal agreement for -- revived between Kendall County; 15 Kendall County will be the first responder, or send the 16 ambulance there out of Comfort when it's available, and 17 that's kind of not moving very fast. It's been sitting in 18 Kendall County for months. Chief Holloway may know where it 19 is. 20 MR. HOLLOWAY: I have no idea. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Anyway, but that is a 22 major concern for me, and if we cannot work out an 23 arrangement with Kendall County, which I'm not certain we 24 will, we need to figure out a plan to get ambulance service 25 quicker to eastern Kerr County, including the Center Point 6-13-05 63 1 area. It may not be this year, but I think if we're going 2 to -- you know, the County -- or at least I feel very -- 3 this is critical, that the response time coming out of 4 Kerrville is just too long. And I don't know -- so, 5 basically, what I'm saying, long-term, I think we need to 6 start looking at doing a substation in Comfort or Center 7 Point area. 8 MR. DAVIS: And I appreciate that. And I 9 think, as Mayor Fine said the other day in the joint 10 meeting, that what we're talking about is pretty much 11 predicated on existing levels of service right now. And to 12 explore some of these sorts of things, Commissioner Letz, I 13 think would probably be an increase in the level of service. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sure. Right. 15 MR. DAVIS: And would constitute, you know, 16 a -- another arrangement of some sort. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. And I'm just 18 saying I think we need -- I'd appreciate it if your staff 19 could start looking at that and giving some idea as to what 20 that additional cost would be. Clearly, it's a cost that's 21 going to be borne more by the County, and maybe there's some 22 other options that -- 23 MR. DAVIS: I trust those runs are coming out 24 of the stations there on the loop, aren't they? 25 MR. HOLLOWAY: Yes, sir. Yes, right. 6-13-05 64 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So it's a -- and, you 2 know, it's just -- it's a distance issue. It's not a -- 3 MR. DAVIS: Sure. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Certainly, the response 5 is coming out quickly, and Chief Holloway and I -- we've 6 talked about this for many years, and it's just becoming 7 more and more of a problem as the populations in both 8 counties are growing. And the -- quite frankly, the Comfort 9 ambulance isn't there a lot; it isn't available to go into 10 Kerr County. They don't want to go into Kerr County, so -- 11 Chief? 12 MR. HOLLOWAY: We -- you know, we have an 13 agreement with the volunteer fire department there. They do 14 first respond with us. Our problem we have is with the 15 ambulance service. They will not come into Kerr County at 16 all, and we've tried to work with them and tried to get it 17 worked out, and so far that hasn't happened very well. And 18 we're receptive to that, because we know the response times 19 in that area are long, but right now the volunteer fire 20 department's real receptive to coming in and doing first 21 responder for us. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 23 MR. HOLLOWAY: I agree, something needs to be 24 done, and especially with Falling Waters area, 'cause we 25 have to go through Kendall County to get into Kerr County, 6-13-05 65 1 and that's a long run for us. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, and there's a lot 3 of -- like I said, there's 50 homes now in Falling Water. 4 When it was a few homes here and a few homes there, it was 5 an issue, but it's become a major issue, and those residents 6 are -- they see it as a major issue. You know, I will say, 7 you know, the Kerrville EMS have been very willing and 8 anxious to talk to Kendall County EMS. The problem has 9 been -- or Boerne, whichever -- whoever actually handles 10 their EMS in Kendall County is where the holdup is. 11 Everyone is aware of that, including Commissioners Court in 12 Kendall County. But it's just a -- they have not been 13 willing to address it for the last three years that I've 14 been actively pursuing it. Probably five years. 15 MR. HOLLOWAY: Five years. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that, you know, 17 we may not be able to rely on that as a solution, certainly 18 a long-term solution. And I might note that under our 19 current contract which we're looking at, it refers to that 20 area as being handled by Kendall County, but Kendall County 21 unilaterally decided they weren't going to respond. So, 22 that's just my comment. I think we need to start looking at 23 another long-range plan for that. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree. And also, 25 not only the Hermann Sons area, but way out on Elm Pass 6-13-05 66 1 and -- and way out Camp Verde and all that area and beyond 2 also poses the same type of problem. 3 MR. DAVIS: Well, let me -- I guess, in 4 closing, I'm -- 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Closing? 6 MR. DAVIS: Let me just make one statement 7 and kind of reiterate some remarks that I heard at the last 8 joint meeting between the City Council and the Commissioners 9 Court, and kind of give us a little direction, perhaps. And 10 my understanding is we have eight programs in which we're 11 providing services together, and some of those are what I 12 would refer to as partnerships, and I think those would be 13 the airport, the library, and the recycling. And then the 14 other five are arrangements whereby one entity is providing 15 a service to the other entity, and I think those five would 16 be the jail, the tax collection and the animal control, for 17 which the County is providing services to the residents of 18 the city of Kerrville, and then fire and EMS, which is just 19 the reverse, where the City is providing service to county 20 residents. My understanding out of that last joint meeting 21 was that the partnership arrangements, we're going to have 22 to spend some time on and work through and -- and make those 23 arrangements jointly and make some decisions jointly, but on 24 these other five, it's pretty much just a contract 25 arrangement whereby you, as providers, will be selling to 6-13-05 67 1 the City a service, and virtually, the City will be selling 2 the service of the EMS and the fire to the -- to the County. 3 And that's the basis upon which we're proceeding, and I hope 4 that's correct and -- and understood. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I tell you what, if 6 you -- and I want to apologize to you for my timing being 7 off here. I think it would be -- we'd be all be better 8 served if we postpone this issue and let me set up a 9 workshop in this courtroom, and invite you all back again, 10 if you don't mind. And we'll -- 11 MR. DAVIS: Well, I just -- and that's fine. 12 I mean, that's -- that's fine with us. We're at your beck 13 and call. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It will be pretty 15 soon, because, you know, it's a budget issue. 16 MR. DAVIS: Yes, sir. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're fixing to -- all 18 of us and you are going to tackle that here pretty quick, 19 and so I'll be in touch with you very soon. 20 MR. DAVIS: All right. Now, I trust, then, 21 that probably this afternoon there won't be any action taken 22 on the contract. I think that's later -- that's on your 23 agenda later on today. 24 AUDIENCE: The 26th. 25 MR. DAVIS: That's not today? That's a later 6-13-05 68 1 council meeting? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, that's today. It's 3 on today's agenda as an executive session item. 4 MR. DAVIS: That's what I thought. But I -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think we're going 6 to even talk about it. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think the Judge just 8 put that on there in the executive session discussion just 9 in case we needed to go into executive session. I don't 10 think that we -- 11 MR. DAVIS: We won't worry about coming back? 12 I guess that's my point. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: No, sir, I don't -- I put it 14 on there as kind of a safety valve measure. I saw that 15 these other items were there. I knew that you folks were 16 going to be here this morning, didn't know what it might 17 lead to, and -- but it appears that we're somewhat premature 18 and we're in the early stages of the EMS issue now. 19 MR. DAVIS: Well, I would encourage and 20 invite, if any of you individually have any questions -- 21 again, we had about three pages worth of questions -- any 22 questions on the questions, to give me a call, and we can 23 sit down individually. It might expedite any sort of a 24 joint meeting later on. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Got one question, 6-13-05 69 1 Mr. Davis. You mentioned, of the eight contracts, that some 2 of them were partnerships and others were a supplier-buyer 3 relationship. What -- what are the implications of that? 4 What is -- why is that important to make that -- that 5 distinguishment? 6 MR. DAVIS: To me, the distinction -- I think 7 the three that are partnerships, the airport -- well, the 8 airport is essentially resolved, so maybe we can take it off 9 the table. And that leaves, then, recycling and the 10 library, in which there are some -- some legal implications 11 and complications, perhaps. But -- but the others, the 12 other five, to me, the significance is that -- that y'all 13 have done an excellent job on the -- on the jail, the tax 14 collection, and the animal control. Y'all have given us the 15 numbers, and I think then as we receive those and take those 16 to the County, then it's kind of an option of do we want to 17 continue buying that service from the County? Likewise, on 18 the fire and the EMS, the table is turned and, you know, 19 here's -- here's our information; here's what it costs us. 20 You have the discretion then of saying we'd like to continue 21 that service or not. Am I making that -- I may not be 22 articulating that very well, Commissioner Nicholson, but to 23 me there's a distinction between those in which we're really 24 partners -- 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 6-13-05 70 1 MR. DAVIS: -- and those that we're just 2 providing service. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I see that. Thank 4 you. 5 MR. DAVIS: Thank you. Anything else? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, Don. 7 MR. DAVIS: Gentlemen, we appreciate it. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Any more questions? Thank you 9 very much. We appreciate you being here today. 10 (Discussion off the record.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: We've got a timed item for 12 10:30 that hopefully will take just a moment, so at this 13 time I'm going to recess the Commissioners Court meeting and 14 I'm going to open a public hearing on a resolution amending 15 T.C.D.P. Contracts 722411 and 723095 and 724441 regarding 16 the Kerrville South Wastewater Project, Phases 2, 3, and 4. 17 (The regular Commissioners Court meeting was closed at 10:30 a.m., and a public hearing 18 was held in open court, as follows:) 19 P U B L I C H E A R I N G 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there any member of the 21 public that wishes to be heard with regard to that 22 resolution amending those contracts? Any member of the 23 public that wishes to be heard? 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Seeing no one coming forward, 6-13-05 71 1 we will close the public hearing on that resolution amending 2 those contracts, and we will reconvene the Commissioners 3 Court meeting. 4 (The public hearing was concluded at 10:31 a.m., and the regular Commissioners Court 5 meeting was reopened.) 6 - - - - - - - - - - 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I wouldn't mind if we 8 took a 10-minute break, and then -- 9 JUDGE TINLEY: At this point -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is going to take 11 a few minutes to do. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: At this point, we will stand 13 in recess for 10 to 15 minutes. 14 (Recess taken from 10:32 a.m. to 10:47 a.m.) 15 - - - - - - - - - - 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order 17 after our short recess. Since we just did the public 18 hearing before the break, let's go to Item 10 and get it out 19 of the way. Consider, discuss, and take appropriate action 20 to approve resolutions amending T.C.D.P. Contracts 722411, 21 723095, and 724441 regarding the scope of the Kerrville 22 South Wastewater Project, Phases 2, 3, and 4, for the 23 purposes outlined in the -- in the material as submitted to 24 members of the Court. Commissioner Williams? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Judge. As 6-13-05 72 1 the Court knows, we have been trying to get Phases 2 and 3 2 underway for some time. We advertised for bids the first 3 time a couple months ago, received no bids, went back to the 4 advertising regimen again and broadened the net somewhat and 5 advertised for the second time, and managed to get one bid 6 from a contractor willing to do this job. Don't know the 7 reasons, whether they don't like to do sewer work or they're 8 all too busy doing other things or -- or whatever, but the 9 bottom line is that the bid was in excess of available 10 funding by about $213,000, which presented a major problem 11 in terms of funding available and the ability to move Phases 12 2 and 3 forward. 13 The Court may recall that Phases 2 and 3 is 14 the area in which -- I'm giving you a map, and Dave also has 15 bigger maps and he'll step you through, but just for 16 purposes of introduction, this is the area of major concern 17 from -- from the outset. And is the area where, as you can 18 see from the diagram, a whole lot of very small lots, all of 19 which are on septic, most of whom have problems, and all 20 have contributed to the deterioration of Camp Meeting Creek, 21 which was noted by EPA as an endangered -- as an endangered 22 stream. Camp Meeting Creek runs through this area, runs 23 through the River Hills section of Kerrville, and it runs 24 into the Guadalupe River, so it is of importance that that 25 stream not be in a polluted -- polluted area. But also, 6-13-05 73 1 these are -- this is an area of folk who really need the 2 assistance in terms of first-time sewer service and the 3 benefits that can accrue to them from that by reason of the 4 various grants. 5 Having said all that, after receiving a 6 $213,000 overbid, I thought, well, this is going to -- this 7 poses a heck of a problem. How are we going to get this job 8 done? So I thought about it and thought about it, and it 9 occurred to me that perhaps one solution would be to take 10 the funding out of 4, which was to do the Ranchero Road last 11 portion, incorporate those funds into Phases 2 and 3, and 12 get this, the major part of the project, underway, and then 13 have an opportunity later to go back and try to get more 14 money for Phase 4. I ran that scenario by Dave Tucker of 15 Grantworks, and his initial reaction was, "I don't know." 16 Now, he got to thinking about it while driving from Houston 17 back to Austin, and then he called me back and said, "I 18 think maybe we can do that." So, that's what this is all 19 about, and Dave's going to answer your questions, step 20 you through it, tell you how all of this changes the scope, 21 but not the whole dynamic. And, as a matter of fact, we 22 managed to do what we really are setting out to do, and it 23 opens the door for us to go back to ORCA for a Phase 4 grant 24 again. 25 MR. TUCKER: Yes. 6-13-05 74 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Whole new grant to do 2 Phase 4 and complete that. Dave Tucker is here. With that 3 introduction, please help us get this issue -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Could we have a time-out 5 first? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. 7 MR. TUCKER: Thanks, Commissioner, Judge 8 Tinley, the rest of you Commissioners. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Dave, before you get 10 started -- 11 MR. TUCKER: Yes, sir? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- can you, on the map -- 13 which I appreciate these maps. 14 MR. TUCKER: Yeah. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where is the part we did 16 in Phase 1? 17 MR. TUCKER: The part that we did for Phase 18 1? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where's Phase 1? 20 MR. TUCKER: Where y'all see Phase 1 was in 21 the area right in the Wood Mobile Home Park. That's not 22 even reflected on this map, because that's complete. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, I mean -- 24 MR. TUCKER: That would be along Greenwood, 25 Sweetwater, and Ripplewood. 6-13-05 75 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And did the line go -- 2 how'd the line get back? 3 MR. TUCKER: The length went along Wood 4 Drive. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Then it comes down to 7 where the yellow line meets, where the sewer -- 8 MR. TUCKER: Connects it there. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, where -- it 10 goes into the Kerrville main. 11 MR. TUCKER: That's correct, yes -- yeah. So 12 these individuals are being served. And that -- that 13 project was completed in full, so we've done the first phase 14 successfully. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, that's what I 16 needed to find out. I just wanted to -- thank you. That 17 makes it a lot easier for me. 18 MR. TUCKER: Okay. So, I'll put this right 19 here for now -- is it in your way there? Right there. So, 20 what we're looking at doing is -- as the Commissioner just 21 explained, is utilizing funds for Phase 4, which are in blue 22 on here, which were going to provide first-time sewer 23 service to 17 homes along Ranchero Road, and instead, using 24 those funds to finish off the area in green; that is Phase 25 3. So essentially, Phase 3, which is the green part, will 6-13-05 76 1 be divided into two sections. If you look at your amended, 2 revised form, that section is now green and blue. The Phase 3 4 funds will be paying for the streets along Shannon and 4 Frederick. The Phase 3 funds will still be paying for 5 connections along Loyal Valley and George Muck, and a 6 portion of Frederick, and Phase 2 funds will remain 7 essentially unchanged. The charts will be altered slightly, 8 but the beneficiaries, which is what the agency cares about, 9 that will remain unchanged. So, basically, Phase 3 is going 10 to be swallowing the funds for Phase 4. That way we can 11 complete the entire originally applied for Kerrville South 12 area, and then the 17 individuals along Ranchero Road will 13 not be receiving service at this time, but we can apply for 14 that at a future date. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There's 14 homes on 16 Ranchero; is that correct? 17 MR. TUCKER: 17 homes. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 17 homes? 19 MR. TUCKER: Yes, sir. And the -- 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And the number that 21 will be accommodated in Phase -- in the green area is how 22 many, Dave? 23 MR. TUCKER: Let me look at my notes. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You take the story at 25 your -- any way you want to. 6-13-05 77 1 MR. TUCKER: Originally, it was going to be 2 64. Just with Phase 3 funds, that's just going to be 37, 3 but all 64 houses will be served. Basically, even though 4 funds for Phase 3 and Phase 4 are being combined to pay for 5 the beneficiaries in Phase 3, every original beneficiary in 6 Phase 3 is still going to receive benefit, so nobody from 7 the original Phase 2 or Phase 3 is being eliminated, only 8 individuals to receive benefit in Phase 4 are no longer 9 going to be receiving service. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Until we get more 11 funds. 12 MR. TUCKER: Until we get more funds. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: From a subsequent 14 grant application. 15 MR. TUCKER: It's perfectly all right to 16 apply for grants for areas that have been applied for before 17 and perhaps are removed by amendment, which is what we're 18 doing right now. Just last year I did the same thing in a 19 neighboring county. The bids came in high; we had to remove 20 two streets. We removed those streets after court action, 21 and then an amendment was submitted to the agency, and then 22 we applied again for those two streets the next year and it 23 got funded. So, we ended up kind of having our cake and 24 eating it, too. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: So, what we had in Phase 3 6-13-05 78 1 serving 64 homes -- 2 MR. TUCKER: Yes. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: -- is now going to be broken 4 down into a smaller Phase 3 serving 37? 5 MR. TUCKER: Yes. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: And then a Phase 4 serving the 7 balance of those same 64 homes? 8 MR. TUCKER: That's exactly correct. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask a question 11 just in a simple way. 12 MR. TUCKER: Yes, sir? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This Court has the 14 authority to amend the funds to move from one phase to 15 another phase? 16 MR. TUCKER: Yes, absolutely. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 18 MR. TUCKER: Going to be very 19 straightforward. ORCA does not consider these projects to 20 be phases; ORCA considers these projects to be individual, 21 free-standing grants. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 23 MR. TUCKER: What is allowed to be done is to 24 alter the beneficiary count. Again, what the agency cares 25 about is who's receiving benefits and what is their income 6-13-05 79 1 level. There are instruments in the ORCA implementation 2 manual -- and when I say ORCA, I mean the Office of Rural 3 Community Affairs, which is the agency providing these 4 funds -- that provide the tools to amend these contracts by 5 giving them a revised beneficiary count, and then the format 6 for resolutions so that -- that County approval is evident 7 toward the agency. So, it's really not -- not dissimilar at 8 all from the Court's authority to apply for these projects 9 to begin with. The Court had a plan before them when the 10 project was in its preliminary design phase and approved, 11 "Yes, let's go ahead and apply for this area to get 12 benefit." It's a similar rein of authority -- similar area 13 of authority to submit an amendment to change the 14 beneficiaries, and it's not unusual. It's -- to be very 15 honest, of the projects I've been administering, the bids 16 have been coming in high. I think it may be related to 17 increase in petroleum prices, which is also having an effect 18 on the price of PVC, plus construction is picking up and 19 contractors have more work to do. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Dave, going back to 21 Commissioner Baldwin's question, he said that we had the 22 authority to do this -- 23 MR. TUCKER: Yes. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- unilaterally. Does it 25 have to go back to ORCA to get -- 6-13-05 80 1 MR. TUCKER: Yes, ORCA needs to approve the 2 amendment. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And it really becomes 4 a -- our changing the scope, but we're requesting their 5 final approval. 6 MR. TUCKER: That's correct. And instead of 7 -- if it was a minor change, it could have been done just 8 with a letter, but if you're changing beneficiaries, and 9 there is a significant change, I kind of needed the backup 10 of having court approval and the public hearing that 11 preceded this. But ORCA sees these type of amendments 12 often. This may be a little more creative than most they 13 receive are, but it actually all makes sense. We're trying 14 to stay within the budget, and the County is not under any 15 specific obligation to provide first-time service to these 16 17 individuals who are being removed in Phase 4. You are 17 obliged to do so without amending the contract, but if you 18 formally amend the contract through these means and then 19 list budgetary concerns to be the primary reason, that's a 20 perfectly okay way to do this. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions for 23 Mr. Tucker? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's work through 25 this. I've asked Bill the question, where -- exactly where 6-13-05 81 1 is Phase 4? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This was Phase 4, the 3 blue lines, okay? Coming down Ranchero. This was Phase 4, 4 or is -- is Phase 4 as we know it before today's court 5 action, if it's taken. 6 MR. TUCKER: Yes, sir. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And this would be the 8 line we'd have to get an easement from Mr. Woods to take 9 these on -- these homes down this way to hook up to it. 10 This was Phase 4, and it all would hook into the sewer line 11 which is currently in existence here and comes this way and 12 hooks unto the city main. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Rock and roll. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions for 15 Mr. Tucker? Do you have anything else you need to bring to 16 our attention? 17 MR. TUCKER: No, sir. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I would move 19 the resolution, if I can find it. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Here's the original. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would move approval 22 of the resolution that amends the -- the scope of the 23 project under contract -- ORCA Contract 722411, 723095, 24 and 724441 for first-time sewer service for Kerrville South, 25 as detailed in the discussion and outlined in the rest of 6-13-05 82 1 the resolution. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 4 approval of the resolution. Any further question or 5 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 6 your right hand. 7 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 9 (No response.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We 11 have a timed item for -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, just one other 13 quick footnote here. Since I'm going to be on vacation here 14 starting the end of this week, Dave or somebody from the 15 staff will fill U.G.R.A. in at the next board meeting. I've 16 provided them, as has Dave, all the information, and their 17 dollars for grant money won't be expended till way deep in 18 this project, but we will bring them up to speed on what the 19 action was today. 20 MR. TUCKER: All parties will formally 21 approve any changes. Thank you very much. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you very much, 23 Dave. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Tucker. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We'll have the 6-13-05 83 1 resolution here for you in just a second. 2 MR. TUCKER: Thank you. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a timed item for 4 11 o'clock; it's a couple of minutes past that now. We have 5 a report from Congressman Henry Bonilla's office concerning 6 the status of projects and matters within the district, and 7 in particular, Kerr County. We're very pleased and 8 fortunate to have with us today Mr. Richard Martinez, the 9 District Director of the Congressman's staff. And, 10 Mr. Martinez, thank you for being here today, and we look 11 forward to what you have to say. 12 MR. MARTINEZ: Thank you, Judge. I'm here to 13 thank the community at large, Judge in particular, and 14 County Commissioners Court for all the courtesies they have 15 extended to the Congressman's office and to me. Certainly 16 appreciate everything that everyone has done. As you know, 17 the Congressman has only represented the area since January, 18 and I myself have rejoined the Congressman's team late last 19 year, and I just wanted to say that of the nine months that 20 I've been back with the Congressman, I have, as far as 21 visiting, spent a full month here in Kerrville. It's an 22 area that's been very important to us, and look forward to 23 building further on relationships. 24 I often get a chance to visit different 25 groups. I've had a chance to visit the school district, 6-13-05 84 1 rotary board, a few other institutions as well, and I'm 2 reminded of the congressional staffer who one time went 3 before the Reservation and Tribal Council. He spoke to a 4 group of Native Americans, and said, "Through our office, 5 your children will be better educated." Now, the group then 6 went, "Wiki waka, wiki waka." The staffer thought, "Gee, I 7 must be doing very well." He said, "Through our office, the 8 Tribal Council will run more efficiently." Again, the group 9 went, "Wiki waka, wiki waka." So, they took a tour out to 10 the pasture, and the staffer said, "Do you mind if I step 11 closer to that bull over there?" The chief then said, "Yes, 12 but be careful you don't step in the wiki waka." 13 (Laughter.) So, I promise my remarks here won't be wiki 14 waka, so I got to kind of keep that in mind. 15 We know that there are many institutions that 16 are very important, not only to the Kerrville area, but to 17 the Congressman as well. Some of you may have seen in the 18 newspaper and heard about the Congressman's feasibility 19 study, which he passed legislation through the 20 Appropriations Committee to move the site to an area which 21 would be more beneficial to the community, and also, more 22 importantly, to the agricultural community as well. That's 23 something that is being worked on, and the important first 24 step's been taken on that. Also, I want to let you all know 25 as well, the Congressman has introduced legislation, 2392, 6-13-05 85 1 to preserve the mission of the V.A. Hospital and to protect 2 the bed space. I know that's something that's very 3 important to us all here. I also want to update you as well 4 on the status of our office. We are currently in 5 negotiations with the local bank about office space, and 6 hopefully we can make a more permanent announcement sometime 7 within the next few weeks. We also have a leading candidate 8 for a staffer, so we're looking to open an office sometime 9 this summer, so we're certainly very, very excited about 10 that as well. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That is great news. 12 Great news. Thank you. 13 MR. MARTINEZ: Yes. Also, again, you know, 14 if there's anything we can ever do to be of any service -- 15 some of you may be aware, we're already visiting with 16 Ms. Harris about grant possibilities; want to take that a 17 few steps further. We'll be visiting with her further on 18 this. So, again, that's something we want to do to build a 19 relationship on as well. I had a chance again to visit with 20 Tivy and a few other groups as well, so if there's anything 21 that we can ever do to be of any service, if you ever see a 22 meeting or a function or event you think we need to have a 23 representative at, please don't hesitate to contact us. 24 We'd like to attend and do as many things as we possibly 25 can. One of the things, too, that the Congressman is very 6-13-05 86 1 active in is service academies. I'd like to see someone 2 from the Kerrville area or multiple candidates go through 3 our academy process, so maybe we can get some Kerrville 4 students at West Point, at Annapolis, at the Air Force 5 Academy. Really excited about that, so if you know of any 6 promising students, let us know. Also, if you know of any 7 prominent academy graduates in the area who have already 8 retired from the military, let them know so perhaps they can 9 serve on our academy board. Want to get some important 10 representation on some of these groups that the Congressman 11 has put together. So, again, don't hesitate to contact me 12 on any of those things at all. 13 And, in closing, obviously, this is about 14 relationships and building relationships. I'm reminded of a 15 couple; it was their tenth wedding anniversary. Decided to 16 have a big party, invite all their family and friends. 17 Husband gets up, says a few words. The wife gets up, and 18 she says, "I'd like to thank my husband for seven wonderful 19 years." Husband leans forward and says, "Well, honey, we've 20 been married ten." She said, "I know, but the last few 21 weren't so good." (Laughter.) The important thing with that 22 story is, despite their ups and downs, and what couple 23 hasn't had their ups and downs, they thought that the 24 relationship was a good one, and they were committed to one 25 another, and that the relationship was worth recognizing by 6-13-05 87 1 the community at large. The Congressman's relationship is 2 fairly new to the area; again, he's only represented 3 Kerrville since January, but this is our time to develop a 4 relationship, for us to grow and to work together so that 5 ten years from now we can say, "Boy, those last ten years 6 were great." Again, thank you very much. If I can ever be 7 of any service, please don't hesitate to contact me. I'm 8 only an hour away. Thank you very much. Take care. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Any questions for 10 Mr. Martinez? 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Would you like to 12 introduce your young aide that you have here? 13 MR. MARTINEZ: Yes. This is my son, Samuel. 14 I heard that there was some good camps in the area, so I may 15 just go over to Hunt and drop him off. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Welcome, Samuel. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you for being here. 18 MR. MARTINEZ: I've already introduced him to 19 Ms. Harris. I said I hope he never meets her 20 professionally. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: We're very pleased that you 22 were able to be here with us today, Mr. Martinez, and we 23 look forward to the congressman's help on the V.A. Hospital 24 and this ongoing project with the -- the Agricultural 25 Research function that's been going on here in Kerrville for 6-13-05 88 1 better than 50 years now. 2 MR. MARTINEZ: Yes. I know how important the 3 research is there. In fact, my grandfather was a tick rider 4 out in west Texas, so we have a family history with ticks as 5 well. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 7 MR. MARTINEZ: Thank you again. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Appreciate it. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's see if we can kind 12 of go back and play catch-up. Item 8, consider, discuss, 13 and take appropriate action to authorize the filing of an 14 application with local foundation for up to one-half the 15 amount required to fund the pre-engineering design phase of 16 the Center Point wastewater collection system. Commissioner 17 Williams? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Briefly, Judge, this 19 is in regards to Center Point. The Court approved an 20 application to Texas Water Development Board on the Small 21 Community Hardship Program. The funds in that program dried 22 up. They did like the project. They said that -- said as 23 much in the correspondence. You'll note they say they're 24 still looking and hoping to be able to find some funding for 25 that. In the meantime, however, Upper Guadalupe River 6-13-05 89 1 Authority appropriated 50 percent of what the required 2 funding would have been for the pre-engineering and design, 3 and they've made that commitment, and I'm grateful to them 4 for that. So, in the meantime, I'd like to find a way to 5 get the other half. T.W.D.B. says that particular fund 6 dried up, the new biennium having started on the state 7 level, and there probably are some other sources -- 8 potential sources for funding, and what I'm asking the Court 9 to do is give me the authority to file for alternate funding 10 from other sources that may be available to us. And I don't 11 want to designate any particular place, but there are other 12 options and other opportunities, and that's what this is all 13 about. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Was that a motion? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would be a 16 motion. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll second it. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 19 approval of the agenda item. Any question or discussion? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make just a comment. 21 And I do deal with the Water Development Board on a pretty 22 regular basis on other matters, and this is a project 23 they're interested in seeing go forward. This is a drop in 24 the bucket to what the project's going to cost down the 25 road, and I think it's a -- we really need to, long-term, 6-13-05 90 1 get the pre-engineering done so we have an idea as to what 2 the best options are engineering-wise to get a sewer system 3 built for the Center Point/eastern Kerr County area, and I 4 think there -- it's the first step in getting the project 5 moving, which may take many years to accomplish. Hopefully 6 Commissioner Williams will be successful in finding an 7 alternative source for the funding and get the 8 pre-engineering study done. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Going to work at it. 10 Thank you, Commissioner. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Essentially, without this 12 pre-engineering work being done, it cannot go forward. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It really -- 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Bureaucratic process. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It really can't, 16 Judge. And a good example of that is, a pre-engineering 17 design function or phase is a prerequisite for going to 18 U.S.D.A. You've got to have it. And anywhere else, for 19 that matter. You've got to be able to tell them what the 20 cost or what the options are and what the end result's going 21 to be. So -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the reason for 23 it -- I mean, it shows, I think, all these state and federal 24 agencies that the community -- this is an important project 25 for the community, that someone has funded it. And I'd like 6-13-05 91 1 to thank Commissioner Williams for trying to find a 2 non-taxpayer source of funding. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 4 discussion? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: All in favor of the motion, 7 signify by raising your right hand. 8 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 10 (No response.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's 12 move to Item 11, consider and discuss county standards to be 13 met to upgrade a private road, that being Scenic Ridge Road 14 in Hills 'n Dales subdivision, to be acceptable for county 15 maintenance. Commissioner Nicholson? 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes. I think you 17 all are aware that we've been working with the property 18 owners along Scenic Ridge Road for quite some time, trying 19 to find some resolution to that bad road. And Mr. Voelkel 20 and I met again out there on-site with them some time ago 21 before April 18th, and Mr. Voelkel summarized what we 22 thought was an agreement on the right approach to resolving 23 the road issues there. And we've got that April 25th letter 24 in your packet there, and on May 5th, Mr. Odom wrote 25 Mr. Voelkel and said that he thought it would be wise to get 6-13-05 92 1 a Commissioners Court direction on how to proceed with the 2 resolution to the road difficulties. Do you want to talk 3 about this, Mr. Voelkel, or does your letter say it all? 4 MR. VOELKEL: I'm here to answer any 5 questions. I was unable to get my client -- he was out of 6 town, so he was not able to be here this morning. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm going to make a 8 motion that the -- to direct Mr. Odom to inform the 9 landowners that in order to meet county standards to make 10 the road eligible for county maintenance, that we need a 11 request from him in writing, and that we need a 40-foot 12 right-of-way, and the road needs to be built to our 13 standards with a 16-foot surface, and that the owner of the 14 property at the end of the road that was subdivided without 15 going through the platting process will need to do that. 16 And, if necessary, that owner will need to provide a 17 cul-de-sac that meets our Road and Bridge standards or 18 subdivision standards, and that, if necessary, the County 19 Attorney assist with bringing that owner into compliance. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Commissioner, the -- 21 the platting issue at the end of the road, tell me again how 22 that works. The property lines come out into the present 23 cul-de-sac and all that. Isn't that the way it -- 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Commissioner, as it 25 turns out, the present cul-de-sac is not a platted 6-13-05 93 1 cul-de-sac; it's an ad hoc cul-de-sac. Apparently the owner 2 of the property at the end of the road divided it into one 3 or more additional lots; I'm not sure if it's one or two, 4 and that access to those lots is being gained through where 5 the road ends. The road ends, and it's however wide it is; 6 I think it's probably 14 feet wide or something like that. 7 So, they're more or less just sharing a common access route, 8 so that what you think is the cul-de-sac there is not a 9 cul-de-sac. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, your motion is 11 stating that not only that the property owners provide us 12 with more right-of-way -- 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- but they purchase 15 the materials to build the road? 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: They bring it up to 17 our standards. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are we doing the 19 actual work? 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. So, they'll hire 22 a company and come do that? 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then they also 25 provide enough property to -- for a cul-de-sac? 6-13-05 94 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think that will be 2 the outcome of it, Commissioner. What I'm saying is that 3 that owner has to come into this court and go through the 4 subdivision process. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And if the 7 subdivision process indicates that a cul-de-sac is required 8 there, then that would -- that would be required. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Truby, would you agree 10 that there's a cul-de-sac required there? 11 MS. HARDIN: That's what the Court has been 12 requesting of people that are dividing property. But that 13 property was divided as a family member probably 20 years 14 ago, and has subsequently sold at least three times that I 15 know of. Both owners now are very recent owners, but if 16 they -- that's all I can tell you. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Commissioner, if we 18 do not grant a waiver on the 60-foot frontage, then it would 19 have to -- it would take a cul-de-sac. But right now, 20 there's two or more -- I think three property owners 21 essentially sharing a -- 22 MS. HARDIN: There's two. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Just two? Sharing a 24 14- or 16-foot access to that property. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: From what I see here, 6-13-05 95 1 it's -- we're -- it's one motion, but -- it can be one 2 motion, but there's two issues. One, we're basically just 3 telling the people that they've got to bring the road to 4 county standards; however, we gave them a variance on the 5 width of the right-of-way because of the situation. That's 6 the only variance you're getting. Otherwise, this is going 7 to be a county -- you know, county standard road. Issue 8 one. Issue two is, the illegal subdivision at the end of 9 the road needs to be cleaned up, and likely, as part of that 10 process, the cul-de-sac will be added. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And the precedent 12 for the 40-foot right-of-way is, this is the same situation 13 as we had on West Hi Line where we settled for a 40-foot 14 right-of-way. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Perhaps there's an 16 issue three, which might be point number four in 17 Mr. Voelkel's letter to Mr. Alford that deals with the 18 County establishing a disclaimer for liability with respect 19 to drainage issues. Is that an issue, or is that 20 sufficient? 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, that's a good 22 question, Commissioner. I'm saying that since we approved 23 the subdivision, including this road, not to be 24 county-maintained, then the only time -- we approved it at 25 that time as accepting that the drainage was not an issue. 6-13-05 96 1 If it surfaces in this platting process of the two lots down 2 at the end of it that there is a drainage issue, then that 3 owner will need to -- to resolve that to our satisfaction. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What would be the 5 length of this road, and how many homes or properties will 6 be served? 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Can you speak to 8 that, Mr. Surveyor? 9 MR. VOELKEL: Yes, sir. There -- the road 10 that we're talking about is actually about 600 feet long, 11 and there are four property owners along that road. The 12 road goes into this cul-de-sac that the Commissioner has 13 talked about. There are two property owners that own lots 14 on that cul-de-sac, so there's six -- six property owners 15 total. It's -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What are the sizes of 17 these lots? 18 MR. VOELKEL: 2-acre average, something right 19 in there. One and a half, 2 acres. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is it -- I can't quite 21 get my picture here. But is it too much to ask the property 22 owners to give us the property for the cul-de-sac? Is that 23 too much? Or do they have houses sitting in the middle of 24 it or what? 25 MS. HARDIN: 15 foot -- 6-13-05 97 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think that would 2 be addressed in the platting process that we're going to 3 require the owner to go through. If we determine that we 4 need a cul-de-sac -- that they need a cul-de-sac, and we 5 determine it's 50 foot, then they need to give you a 50-foot 6 cul-de-sac. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You see all that 8 coming down the road? 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: In the platting 10 process. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I second your motion. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: To summarize this, 13 we're saying to them, you've got to completely comply with 14 our subdivision regulations, and then we'll consider taking 15 that on for county maintenance. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: By telling them up front. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: And reduce the right-of-way 19 down to 40-feet, based upon a prior precedent? 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Are you satisfied 21 with that, Mr. Voelkel? 22 MR. VOELKEL: Yes, sir. I believe that was 23 what was done before in that subdivision, so that would be 24 appropriate. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And so in that motion 6-13-05 98 1 somewhere is granting a variance regarding the width issue, 2 the right-of-way issue? 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The motion is to 4 tell them that 40 feet will be sufficient. Just like -- 5 just like West Hi Line. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and a second. 8 Any further question or discussion on the motion? 9 MS. HARDIN: Does it take 100 percent of the 10 landowners to agree that it would be county-maintained? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, I don't believe so. 12 I -- 13 JUDGE TINLEY: If we're going to take some 14 property from them, it would seem that it would require 15 that. I don't know whether it's going to take property from 16 them. Probably will. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 18 MR. VOELKEL: Yes, it will. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't -- 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: They agreed to give 21 us whatever it takes, 5 foot on each side or whatever. If 22 you want to add a -- well, didn't -- didn't we say that they 23 have to have petitions -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, said it has to be 25 unanimous. I'm thinking -- I don't know what would preclude 6-13-05 99 1 one of the property owners from paying 100 percent of the 2 cost and doing it all, as long as people give the land. I 3 mean, I don't know -- I can't remember the rules. These are 4 really not subdivision rules when it comes to taking a -- a 5 road. If the road's built to standards, I don't know that 6 we need 100 -- unanimous support for us to do that. Maybe 7 we do. I'm not sure of the law on that, on, you know, what 8 the requirements are for us to take a road into the county 9 system. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't think we 11 have to have 100 percent. I think sometimes we required 12 that because of controversy. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that just a rule 15 that the Commissioners -- previous Commissioners Court has 16 made? Or is that a state law, or is it -- it's not in the 17 subdivision regs. Where does this 100 percent come from? 18 MS. HARDIN: I don't know. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not -- this is not a 20 subdivision issue, so it's certainly not the subdivision 21 regs. This is a -- a county accepting a road into the 22 county system. I think it's -- and I saw Rex writing some 23 notes feverishly, so I presume he's going to look this up. 24 'Cause I -- you know, I think it's something that we need to 25 know, and it'd be good maybe to put with our subdivision 6-13-05 100 1 regs what the state law says we have to do when we accept a 2 road or abandon a road. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, are we talking 4 about 100 percent of the property owners that are contiguous 5 to the road, or are we talking about 100 percent of the -- 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Contiguous. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- people in the 8 subdivision? 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We're going to ask 10 each of these -- what did you say? There's six property 11 owners out there? 12 MR. VOELKEL: Correct. Yes, sir. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We're going to 14 ask -- I think there's five of them that are fronting the 15 road now, and then a sixth one at the end of the road. 16 We're going to ask each of those five -- or each of those 17 five have said that they will give us the -- the 40-foot 18 easement. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have a question. I'm 20 going to ask -- when I made my previous statement, I 21 confused myself. Is this in a platted subdivision? 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So it's just a -- they 24 didn't file a revision with what -- they didn't file -- I 25 mean, the plat's filed with the subdivision, but they need 6-13-05 101 1 to do a revision of plat for that last lot thickness, 2 particularly. 3 MS. HARDIN: It was a family division of 4 property at the time. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, but as soon as 6 that sold to a third party, that exemption was no longer 7 valid; it needed to be platted at that point. It is -- in 8 answer to the subdivision question, Commissioner, it's a 9 platted subdivision. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Glad we settled that. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I hate to have those, you 12 know, wrestling around in my brain, fighting with myself. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions? 14 Comments? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 15 your right hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: If we get around to 21 the Subdivision Rules some day, I want to learn some more 22 about that, requiring a -- a plat when a relative -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: State law. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Is it? That solved 25 that problem. 6-13-05 102 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rex, for your 2 information, our Subdivision Rules track state law on 3 abandoning a road in a subdivision, so it's covered, I 4 think, right now. I can't remember what the requirement is, 5 but it's in there. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's move to Item 12, 7 consider funding and timeline of the construction of the 8 walk bridge in Flat Rock Park. I think the issue here 9 concerns what the timeline is more than anything else down 10 at Hermann Sons, and the movement of that railcar that's 11 being used for a temporary bridge. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Railcars. 13 MS. HARDIN: As you all know, the bridge 14 washed out in the July 2002 flood. It was included with the 15 grant for property damage to buildings, to all the road 16 damage done in Kerr County, and it's the only project that 17 is not completed on either the FEMA or the ORCA grant. Last 18 year, in June, we came to you with the timeline that you 19 have in your packet and requested that FEMA give an 20 extension for that grant. That extension runs out July 4th 21 of 2005. We also applied for ORCA, Office of Rural 22 Community Affairs, in Contract Number 718257, and on May the 23 11th, we -- I received a copy of the letter that went to the 24 Judge stating that unless we expended those funds by June 25 the 27th, the Court would not be allowed to file on the 6-13-05 103 1 2005/2006 Colonia Construction Planning Fund. We have done 2 the engineering survey, boring, the elevation certificate 3 for floodplain at a cost of 13,000 -- a little over 13,000, 4 and y'all have that invoice. We've already paid that. But 5 the timeline is tied to TexDOT. They will not be able to 6 finish the Hermann Sons Bridge, and their estimate now is 7 September of 2005. What we're -- what we're asking at this 8 time is that you allow us to contact FEMA and ORCA and close 9 out those grants, and -- and then discuss during the funding 10 process the rebuilding of the bridge through county or Road 11 and Bridge funds. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What do you mean, 13 close them out? Just say good-bye? The money goes away? 14 MS. HARDIN: Correct. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why can't we request 16 another extension? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I thought that's what 19 we were doing. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My preference would be 21 that we -- I mean, we've expended enough funds on the 22 project that would cover the -- I mean, what we need to get 23 reimbursed. I would say that, you know, let them give -- 24 ask them to either accept that as the completion portion of 25 the project, the 13,000 or so that you've spent, which would 6-13-05 104 1 be enough, I think, to cover that, or to extend it. Because 2 it's TexDOT's delay. I mean, it's not -- basically, it's 3 the same reason for the extension request that we asked for 4 previously last year. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, I think so too. 6 These are extenuating circumstances beyond our control, 7 getting the flat cars in here, and I would hate to just walk 8 away from that money. I'd rather them say, you know, "You 9 can't have another extension," having applied, than just to 10 walk away from those funds. I think Commissioner Letz' 11 point's valid in that if that's not a possibility in terms 12 of extension, then use those as an offset to the dollars 13 already spent. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: What do we have in terms of 15 funds that are remaining under those grants? 16 MS. HARDIN: We have already received -- 17 that's in your packet, too, on that timeline. It's on the 18 very last page of the timeline. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Total grant funds. 20 MS. HARDIN: The FEMA funds? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 6,924? 22 MS. HARDIN: Right. Those we've already 23 received, and they are in the account. The ORCA funds are 24 reimbursable. That -- it's possible that if we sent them 25 the engineering amount, that -- that ORCA would consider 6-13-05 105 1 that as closed, but FEMA will make -- would not consider it 2 closed until the project is complete. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: If the -- the amount that 4 we're talking about is not adequate to cover these 5 engineering costs that you put us on notice of? 6 MS. HARDIN: No. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: If we can get them to apply 8 that there, isn't that the simplest solution? And then this 9 puts us in line -- 10 MS. HARDIN: That is possible -- that is 11 possible with ORCA, but it would not be, I don't think, with 12 FEMA. But we can certainly send this information to them 13 and ask them. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: With FEMA, that's a 15 situation that if they don't extend it, we have to send them 16 the money back? 'Cause we already received it. 17 MS. HARDIN: I don't know. I don't know. 18 We've never run across that before, so I really don't know. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I -- you know, either 20 request an extension or ask them -- either that, or ask them 21 to apply the grant to the amount we already have expended on 22 $13,000 worth of studies. And -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think it needs to 24 be a motion that incorporates both possible solutions, 25 asking for an extension or -- 6-13-05 106 1 MS. HARDIN: The letter from ORCA says that 2 we will jeopardize funding for other projects if we don't 3 finish this off. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, this is one way 5 to finish it out, by either getting the extension, which 6 preserves your rights, or asking them to allow us to 7 reallocate those dollars against money we've already spent 8 on engineering and floodplain assessment and so forth. 9 Either way, they're going to know that there's some action 10 on our part, and some potential resolution. So, I would 11 move that we -- or did you make a motion? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Go ahead. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would move that we 14 authorize your office to request an extension of ORCA and/or 15 FEMA, whomever; or, in the alternative, allow us to allocate 16 those funds from the original designation to cover the cost 17 of engineering to the extent that funds will do that. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And the extension 19 would be our priority -- would be our first choice. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Extension would be, rather 23 than the allocation of the funds to close it out. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: In my mind, it is. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. Whichever way 6-13-05 107 1 it goes is fine, and then explain in the letter the 2 extenuating circumstances which are beyond the control of 3 Kerr County. 4 MS. HARDIN: But the extension that we did 5 last year was only for one year. If we do another 6 extension, it probably would be for only one year. Mr. Odom 7 doesn't think we can have it completed within a year. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why wouldn't we be able 9 to complete it in a year? I mean, if we've -- we've already 10 talked about trying to accelerate the pier drilling to have 11 it done in the August time framework, so we could have the 12 railroad cars moved one time and placed, rather than have to 13 do it twice with equipment. Once that part gets done, I 14 wouldn't know why -- 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't either. Are 16 you suggesting that they won't go a year; that maybe we 17 should do a shorter time request? 18 MS. HARDIN: I really don't know. I just 19 know that the last one we got from FEMA was for one year. 20 We've never asked for an ORCA extension. Our deadline is 21 just the 27th for them. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. They probably 23 only do it in terms of a year, but -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd ask for a one-year 25 extension, and say that -- you know. 6-13-05 108 1 MS. HARDIN: We can come back, too, if it 2 isn't -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Exactly. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I think we had a motion. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, a motion and second. 7 Any further question or discussion on that motion? All in 8 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 9 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My question is, is the 14 letter or the request going to come out of Road and Bridge, 15 or does it come out of this Court? 16 MS. HARDIN: They're usually -- 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think you've 18 handled all the correspondence until now, have you not? 19 MS. HARDIN: The letters are usually signed 20 by the Judge after we write them. I think maybe you did the 21 last one. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You signed the last 23 one? 24 MS. HARDIN: No, I think you, Mr. Williams -- 25 you were instructed to sign the last one in July. 6-13-05 109 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I signed it? Then, 2 if the Court has no problem, I'll sign the next one. 3 MS. HARDIN: Okay. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just think we need 5 to make it clear so they don't think that we're doing it and 6 we think that they're doing it, and we drop the ball. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Good point. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It will come out of 9 the Court. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the motion needs 11 to be amended to authorize -- I will make a motion to amend 12 the -- to authorize Commissioner Williams to sign the letter 13 relating to this matter. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and a second 16 for that, for that authorization for Commissioner Williams 17 on the request to FEMA and ORCA on that Item 12 agenda item. 18 Any question or discussion? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just one question. I 20 know Commissioner Williams is leaving town. When are you 21 leaving? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Saturday. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: After he gets this 24 letter done. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll get it out -- 6-13-05 110 1 we'll get it out this week. We'll get together. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or 4 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 5 your right hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's 10 move to Item 13, set a public hearing for the revision of 11 the plat for Southern Hills, Phase Two, Lots 36, 37, and 38, 12 located in Precinct 2. 13 MS. HARDIN: There's a correction to that. 14 It's Precinct 1. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Darn. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Precinct 2 or 17 Precinct 1? Yours? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, it's 1. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, okay. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Don't rub it in, Bill. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Fine, I'll give it to 22 you. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move we set a public 24 hearing for 10 a.m., July 25th, 2005, for the revision of 25 recorded plat, Volume 5, Page 65, to combine three lots into 6-13-05 111 1 one. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: All in favor of the motion, 4 signify by raising your right hand -- excuse me. Any 5 question or discussion? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have a quick comment. 7 Whoever the surveyor is on this, make sure that you clean up 8 the language so that it's a revision of plat, not an 9 undefined term. 10 MS. HARDIN: Okay. 11 MR. VOELKEL: That's a local -- come again? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: "Replatted" is not a term 13 recognized by the State of Texas. "Revision of plat," I 14 believe, is. 15 MR. VOELKEL: Who was that surveyor again on 16 there? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not sure. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Didn't say. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that the way -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: But you need to pass the word 21 along to him, if you would. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Did this term come 23 out of A & M or what? 24 MR. VOELKEL: Probably. (Laughter.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Came out of one of those other 6-13-05 112 1 schools, didn't it? Okay. Any further question or 2 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 3 your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's 8 move to Item 15, final plat of Mosty Pecan Grove located in 9 Precinct 2, I think. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I believe. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We have seen this one 12 before, I believe. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is the final; 15 we've been through preliminary. Anything we need to know 16 about this, Ms. Hardin? 17 MS. HARDIN: Mr. Voelkel? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That we don't already 19 know? 20 MR. VOELKEL: Everything is the same as it 21 was on preliminary. We were going to try to make some 22 changes on right-of-way and bring it back to you on the 23 final, but that did not happen because of some contracts 24 that were already involved with the property, so the plat 25 you have today is exactly the same as the preliminary plat 6-13-05 113 1 that was approved with all the notes. And, of course, you 2 know we have people signed on the plat. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 6 approval of the final plat of Mosty Pecan Grove located in 7 Precinct 2. Any question or discussion? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have a comment. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, no, no. 10 (Laughter.) 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I voted -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Here we go down J.J. 13 Lane one more time. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is it a pump house or 15 what? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I voted against this on 17 the preliminary plat, and I'll probably go ahead and vote 18 for it, since I think my opposition to this was made at that 19 time, but I do think it is a mistake for this county to be 20 basically rushing business because developers have already 21 presold property and don't want to do things the way it 22 properly should be done, and within what I think is the 23 County authority, which is to make J.J. Lane wider and 24 improve J.J. Lane's entrance onto Highway 27 to a safer 25 entrance. I think -- just a comment; I think the developer 6-13-05 114 1 shouldn't have gone and sold property before they came to 2 us, first of all. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with you, 4 Commissioner Letz. However, my second stands. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 6 discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion, 7 signify by raising your right hand. 8 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 10 (No response.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's 12 move to Item 16, consider and discuss the Kerr County 13 Management's Discussion and Analysis for the '03/'04 audit. 14 Commissioner Letz. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is the final draft 16 to the -- I guess our portion, or it goes with the 2003/2004 17 budget Management Discussion and Analysis. We looked at 18 this about a month ago, made some comments. I had Tommy go 19 through this and go through all the numbers, because I was 20 -- I got to the point that I was real confused, after 21 looking at two budgets in two different audits, as to what 22 numbers I was looking at, and Tommy did find one paragraph I 23 had made some errors in, which those have been corrected on 24 the copy you have. I think it's a -- hopefully represents 25 the Court's view of what we did that year. 6-13-05 115 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I will make a comment. 2 Commissioner Letz and I had a visit about this document a 3 few days ago, and the more I look at it and the more I think 4 about this thing, this is an excellent tool for us to go 5 back and reflect on and to look at for the future budgets 6 and future planning of Kerr County. That was one of the 7 comments that Commissioner Letz made, and I'm growing closer 8 and closer to that way of thinking. This is a great 9 document with a lot of good information. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree with that, 11 and I want to extend my thanks to appreciation to 12 Commissioner Letz for taking on this task. It is a daunting 13 task to get all this stuff pulled together. And I think it 14 serves our purposes; it depicts the happenings and 15 activities of Kerr County for the period ending 16 September 30, 2004. 17 MR. TOMLINSON: I appreciate Commissioner 18 Letz doing it also. (Laughter.) 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I bet you do. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I bet you do. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: A lot of work. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You ought to take him 23 out for a steak dinner. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: With us along. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Commissioner Letz, 6-13-05 116 1 on Page 9, under the heading "Budget for 2004-05" -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What page are you on? 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Page 9, '04-'05 5 budget. In that second paragraph, did you switch from 6 thousands of dollars to actual dollars? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I did, correct. That 8 needs to be modified. Page 9, second paragraph, those 9 numbers all need to go into -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: First one should be 508, 11 probably. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 508. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Second one should be 150. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. Third one should 15 be 940 -- or the -- 138 and 940. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Old eagle eye. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It was helpful to me 18 and read it and think back. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Uh-huh. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Actually, the other one 21 should be 44. Double typo. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 44 even, just 44. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Take out the second 25 one. 6-13-05 117 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 'Cause I don't think our 2 expenditures are going to be $507 million. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Never can tell. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Wait a month. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: With respect -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you for catching 7 that. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: With respect to the Budget and 9 Financial Highlights on Page 6, I think there's some 10 technical corrections that need to be made on the 11 next-to-the-last bullet there, where it refers to Kerr 12 County Juvenile Board, that the Kerr County Facilities 13 Corporation was not going to appropriate. That should be 14 Kerr County Juvenile Board was not going to appropriate. 15 The term "debt service" is used. I think, technically, 16 those are lease payments. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question. I mean, so the 18 -- it should say "Kerr County Juvenile Board" twice? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, mm-hmm. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And debt service -- 21 correct me -- that would be changed to "lease payment"? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Lease payments, those are 23 technically called in the agreement. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: "...appropriate funds to 25 make lease payments"? 6-13-05 118 1 JUDGE TINLEY: To pay lease payments, right. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: And then, following on down 4 with the -- the last bullet there, in order to further 5 implement those -- those corrections, I've come up with some 6 revised language. I have a little problem with "notice to 7 bond holders and trustee of potential default." I think 8 we're in potential default of anything we do right now. 9 That doesn't mean you're actually in default. And we have 10 never fallen under default under any of those agreements. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Technical default. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: There were material events, 13 but they were not events of default, and it's never been 14 established, and we were not ever. However, I would propose 15 some language to correct that last bullet to read, "On 16 September 27, 2004, the Commissioners Court voted to not 17 appropriate funds to pay lease payments, and provided notice 18 of such nonappropriation to the lease revenue bond holders 19 and the trustee of such bond holders of the Hill Country 20 Juvenile Facility Corporation" -- cause that's who the bonds 21 were held in -- "relative to business-type activities," and 22 then in parentheses, (Kerr County Juvenile Detention 23 Facility). I think the same information is imparted, but 24 it's technically correct. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have no problem with 6-13-05 119 1 that change. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I want to go 3 back up to the -- your first one. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The difference between 6 the Juvenile Board and the Facilities Corp. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wasn't it the 9 Facilities Corp. that could not appropriate funds? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner, the -- the 11 Facilities Corp. owns title to the property. The Juvenile 12 Board was under an operating agreement, and it was the one 13 that furnished notice of nonappropriation to the Court under 14 the operating agreement between the Juvenile Board and the 15 Court. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wasn't it the Facility 17 Corp., though, that is the actual body that made payments? 18 I mean, that's what's in my brain, is that it was the 19 facility -- not the Juvenile Board, but the Facilities Corp. 20 that actually -- which sat down and wrote a check to 21 whomever. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: I think mechanically what 23 would happen is that the funds were transferred from the 24 Juvenile Board, as the operator, to Kerr County under the 25 operating agreement that it had with Kerr County, and then 6-13-05 120 1 Kerr County, under the lease agreement with the Facility 2 Corp. -- mechanically how that would happen -- I think, 3 actually, the check probably went directly -- it never went 4 through a Facilities Corp. account, did it? No, didn't 5 think so. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Who held the debt? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: The issuer of the debt was the 8 Facilities Corp. The lease agreement was with Kerr County. 9 Then Kerr County entered into an operating agreement with 10 the Juvenile Board, in which the Juvenile Board assumed that 11 obligation. So, the Juvenile Board first gave notice of 12 its -- Juvenile Board's -- nonappropriation to the Court. 13 The Court then subsequently gave notice of nonappropriation 14 under the lease agreement, and that's the notice that went 15 to the bondholders and the trustee. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Who -- maybe y'all just 17 answered this and I was in never-never land. Who -- and I 18 think there's something you said referring to lease 19 payments, you know, but we were never referring to 20 nonappropriating funds for the bond payment. Who -- I mean, 21 a lease payment didn't pay the bonds. I mean, the money 22 went -- I mean, may have been a lease, but someone had to 23 pay the bondholders, so there's -- it's bonded indebtedness; 24 it's not a lease indebtedness. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: The way -- the terminology 6-13-05 121 1 that was used in the documentation in the transaction talked 2 about lease payments. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Now, what was included within 5 the lease payments were funds necessary to pay the bonded 6 indebtedness, but they were called lease payments -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: -- in the agreement. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But who -- who was the 10 responsible party to make the bond payment? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: As it turns out, it was 12 Kerr -- Kerr County, after it got the funds, if it 13 appropriated funds, after it got them from the Juvenile 14 Board. Correct? That was the mechanics of the arrangement. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: County never -- I don't 16 recall the County ever issuing the bonds. Who issued the 17 bonds? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: The Facility Corp. issued the 19 bonds. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, then, the 21 Facilities Corp.'s the one that has to pay the bond payment. 22 It seems to me -- I don't -- I mean, that's -- I mean, the 23 lease payment, I think, is -- it's a lease payment, but it's 24 the bonds that weren't paid, is the issue. And that was the 25 Facilities Corp. that didn't make those bond payments. 6-13-05 122 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The lease payment was 2 the equivalent of what the debt service would have been. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. So I -- I think 4 somewhere we need to -- I mean, I don't have a problem with 5 changing up the lease payments, but I still think we need to 6 say the Facility Corporation couldn't make the bond 7 payments, because that's what -- that was the problem. I 8 mean, the bonds couldn't be paid. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What did the letter 10 of nonappropriation say -- if you recall, Judge, say when 11 you gave the letter to the Court? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: The Juvenile Board gave notice 13 of nonappropriation to Kerr County. So, under that 14 next-to-the-last bullet, September 8, it was that the Kerr 15 County Juvenile Board was not going to appropriate funds. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes? 18 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, the -- the Management 19 Discussion and Analysis is addressing the statements that 20 are presented, and we're -- we're presenting the statements 21 of the County. We're -- the statements of the corporation 22 are not in the body of -- of the financial statement, so I 23 don't think we need to talk -- we need to say anything about 24 the corporation, because the corporation's financial 25 statements aren't within the body of -- of our audit. So 6-13-05 123 1 you need to focus on -- on what the County and the Juvenile 2 Board did, not what the corporation did or didn't do. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, and in truth and in 4 fact, the notice -- the first notice of nonappropriation was 5 from the Juvenile Board to Kerr County. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's the notice that 7 they weren't going to appropriate. It says -- I mean, I'm 8 trying to -- hopefully this is a quote -- not going to 9 appropriate funds to make lease payments. That's what you 10 said in that notice. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Then that bullet is 13 correct. And on this last bullet, Commissioners Court voted 14 to nonappropriate funds to make lease payments or bond 15 payments for the Facilities Corp. I mean, I don't -- 16 JUDGE TINLEY: In the lease, the lease 17 payments were defined as -- as including bond payments in an 18 amount necessary in order to amortize the bonds. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess what I'm trying 20 to do, I want to make sure that in 30 years, when someone 21 looks at this, they understand that what happened was we -- 22 you know, the County decided to not appropriate funds that 23 we were not obligated to do anyhow, but decided not to 24 appropriate funds to pay these bonds. That's what happened, 25 you know, in reality. And I think that this note -- the 6-13-05 124 1 intent of the note is to say -- to tell the public that this 2 Commissioners Court voted not to appropriate the funds to 3 pay those bonds, the debt on those bonds. And that's what 4 -- I mean, you know, and I think it needs to be as clear as 5 possible. I don't have a real problem with your language, 6 but maybe -- I think that you read, but I think it needs to 7 refer back to the bonds at some point, because it's the 8 bonds that weren't paid that have -- that caused our credit 9 rating to go down and, you know, other things to happen. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with you. 11 Unless -- unless when they use the verbiage, "lease 12 payments," is that being the same thing as bond payments? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's -- I think it is. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Under the definition of the 15 documents, yes, it does include the amount necessary to 16 amortize the payment on those bonds. In the documents of 17 the transaction. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. And for that 19 reason, I think we can say lease payments, and then put in 20 parentheses, you know, bond -- or debt service or bond 21 payments. It's bond payments, is what it is. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Pay lease payments for bond 24 payments, and provided notice of such nonappropriation. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 6-13-05 125 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay? But in the 2 next-to-the-last bullet -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Change -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: -- it needs to be Juvenile 5 Board instead of Facilities Corp. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, okay. All right. 7 Any other comments? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, yeah. One thing 9 I have learned from this is I don't want to do that again. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree with that. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Too many boards and 12 too many commissions and too many ... 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And, Commissioner 14 Baldwin, I take, by your comments earlier about the 15 usefulness of this, that was volunteering to write next 16 year's management discussion? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir, that wasn't 18 anything like that. I was just trying to be nice for a 19 change. And, of course, that ends right now. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You did such a great 21 job, I think you should just continue to do it. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I really think this is a 23 good opportunity for the Court to really look at that year 24 with some, you know, microscope and see what we did. And it 25 creates a document that can be used -- it obviously has to 6-13-05 126 1 be used in the audit, but it can also be used -- I think put 2 on the web site, and it's a good summary of the financial 3 situation for the County, what we did in that year. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll move approval of the 6 Management Discussion and Analysis as amended today -- or 7 modified today, excuse me. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 10 approval of the Management Discussion and Analysis as 11 modified. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, can you check the 13 language -- we need to get the language of yours so we can 14 get that and put it in there. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: With the corrections. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. Any further question or 17 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 18 your right hand. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's 23 move to Item 17, if we might, discuss approval of placement 24 contract with El Paso County and Cameron County, and 25 authorize County Judge to sign same. Ms. Harris. 6-13-05 127 1 MS. HARRIS: Here are the revised contracts. 2 After the County Attorney reviewed El Paso's contract, he 3 made some suggestions for some more specific clarification, 4 so I called El Paso and had a conference call with the 5 attorney that drew up this contract, and he approved the 6 changes that Mr. Emerson wanted to include. And this was 7 late Friday afternoon; that's the reason why you're getting 8 the revised copy of the contract. However, Mr. Emerson just 9 handed me a note that if you will look on -- I believe it's 10 Section VIII of the contract -- 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Does this also apply 12 to Wharton County, this revision? Or Cameron County, I'm 13 sorry. 14 MS. HARRIS: No, sir. No, Cameron County, 15 the County Attorney has looked at it and has approved 16 Cameron County's contract. This is just El Paso's contract. 17 I wanted to just point out on -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which page? 19 MS. HARRIS: -- on Section -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: On Page 7. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Page 7, yeah. 22 MS. HARRIS: Yes, Page 7, Section VIII, B and 23 C, where I have typed in, "See attached general liability 24 coverage document declarations." County Attorney wants me 25 to add right after that, "It is agreed that the service 6-13-05 128 1 agency's general liability coverage document declarations 2 shall suffice to satisfy the insurance and certification 3 requirements." To just add that after, "See attached 4 general liability coverage document declarations." 5 JUDGE TINLEY: On both B and C? 6 MS. HARRIS: On both B and C, yes, sir. So I 7 would have to get you another copy, Judge Tinley, in order 8 for you to sign after I add that. Everything in bold on 9 this contract is what I added at the request of the County 10 Attorney. Everything that's in bold on here. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. County Attorney, after the 12 changes have been made that we're looking at here, 13 eleventh-hour changes, I guess, mostly, do you have any 14 concerns about any of the substantives or matters of form? 15 MR. EMERSON: Not particularly after the 16 changes, Your Honor. I had -- I had a number of concerns 17 prior to that, and Ms. Harris sat down and went through with 18 -- went through them with me. Some of them were 19 T.J.P.C.-dictated, so we didn't really have any control over 20 it, despite the fact that I didn't particularly care for it. 21 But, you know, it was just kind of the nature of the beast 22 we're living with, and El Paso has agreed to other changes 23 that made a difference in the contract. So -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: So, substantive, it's 25 something you can live with? 6-13-05 129 1 MR. EMERSON: Yes, sir. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. And as to form, it's 3 satisfactory? 4 MR. EMERSON: Yes, sir. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What's the -- what's 7 the significance under Part 11 -- or Part VI on Page 6 of 8 the contract that runs from June 13, 2005, until August 31? 9 This is a contract for less than three months. 10 MS. HARRIS: Yes, sir, because El Paso sends 11 out all their contract renewals on September 1, so we'll -- 12 we'll have to have another contract approved come 13 September 1. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: They run concurrently fiscally 15 with the State? 16 MS. HARRIS: Yes, they do. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 18 MS. HARRIS: Yes, they do. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I'd like to see 20 action on this item postponed till after tomorrow's 21 workshop, after the Sheriff and the jail workshop, so we can 22 see the -- get a complete, full picture of what we're doing 23 with our properties. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I agree. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have no problem with 6-13-05 130 1 deferring till tomorrow. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. What you're suggesting 3 is that, as opposed to adjourning when we finish today, we 4 recess and -- and incorporate that meeting with our workshop 5 that we've got scheduled for tomorrow anyway? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Would that apply to 9 the Cameron County or just the El Paso County? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Both. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Both. Mr. County Attorney, is 12 that satisfactory? 13 MR. EMERSON: Yes, sir, Your Honor. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay, let's move on to 15 Item 18, then, if nobody has anything further to offer on 16 17. Discuss approval of $4,500 to repair the facility lift 17 station, here again, at the detention facility. 18 MS. HARRIS: The figure $4,500 was put in 19 here prior to getting a written estimate from the electrical 20 engineer. You have that in your packet, and his estimation 21 was $1,786, which would increase it from $4,500 to $4,733. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Four thousand -- 23 MS. HARRIS: 733, rather than $4,500. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there any -- I presume 25 this is because of the construction problems when this -- 6-13-05 131 1 when the addition was built? 2 MS. HARRIS: Yes. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where are we on getting 4 any relief from the contractor or engineer or architect, or 5 whoever designed this system that doesn't work? 6 MR. EMERSON: Where we stand at this point is 7 that we have had an informal meeting with all parties 8 concerned out at the detention facility. We had basically 9 divided responsibilities at that meeting, and as I talked to 10 Ms. Harris earlier this week, I told her that if we don't 11 have substantial action, probably within the next week or 12 so, there will be an agenda item on the next Commissioners 13 Court meeting authorizing me to pursue litigation. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So there is a chance that 15 we'll recoup some of these funds? Are we -- 16 MR. EMERSON: Possibly. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is part -- it needs 18 to be done if there's a problem. So -- 19 MR. EMERSON: Correct. And what actually 20 needs to be done is not only the sewer lift station, 21 although this is the most important at this time, but the 22 parking lot has to be brought up to A.D.A. standards, and 23 then there's significant drainage issues between the old 24 building and the new building. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval of the 6-13-05 132 1 agenda item, expenditure of $4,733. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: With those funds -- do 4 you have those funds in the budget anywhere? 5 MS. HARRIS: No, sir. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tommy, do we have any 7 spot to find $4,033 -- $4,733? 8 MR. TOMLINSON: There's -- there's some funds 9 that haven't been expended in Contract Fees under the budget 10 that -- the current budget. 11 MS. HARRIS: In Contract Fees? 12 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that all right? 14 MS. HARRIS: That's fine. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: With funds to come out of 16 the contract fees in the Juvenile Facility budget. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Any 19 further question or discussion? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Question. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The KPUB issue, the 23 $3,000 -- or $2,947. What is that for exactly? 24 MS. HARRIS: That's for dropping the pole and 25 running the line from their pole to a pole that the 6-13-05 133 1 electrical engineer is going to have to drop. And so the 2 1,700 and some-odd cents is for the electrical engineer. 3 They have to drop a pole, do the meter loop, and get ready 4 for KPUB to set the meter on that pole, and then hook it up. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is this full charge 6 from KPUB? I mean, did they come along and say, "Hey, this 7 is for our sister government agency, the County. We need to 8 give them a reduced cost on this thing and work with them." 9 Did they say anything like that? Or -- 10 MS. HARRIS: Not in those words, but they 11 worked with us as diligently as they possibly could to give 12 us -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just -- I think you 14 know, less than an hour ago, we were discussing our 15 partnership with the City of Kerrville, and this being a 16 City-owned function, you know, if they're -- golly. $3,000 17 sounds like a lot of money to me to set a pole and run a 18 wire. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's more than just 20 a pole, is it not? It's a transformer and everything else. 21 MS. HARRIS: Transformer. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: In that case, it 23 should be free. See, you guys don't think right. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Early on I contacted 25 Mr. Taylor, and he did indicate his willingness to work with 6-13-05 134 1 Ms. Harris on this whole matter, but he didn't say he'd do 2 it for free. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: I can assure you, Commissioner 4 Baldwin, they were requested to give us whatever 5 consideration -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They can find in their 7 soft heart? If you had a pole set in and a transformer and 8 a wire running to your house as a private citizen, it would 9 probably cost you $2,947. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Reckon? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. So we're not 12 getting -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the good news is that 14 we'll recover that as we spend money out there on 15 electricity, get our money back over the long-term. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And better news is, 17 by doing this, we probably avoid a citation from EPA for 18 sanitary violations of the lift station. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, the bad news -- 20 let me throw a little more bad news in there. This damned 21 issue should have been taken care of when they built the 22 facility. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree with that. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree. That's why 25 we -- 6-13-05 135 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I won in the end. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's important. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 5 discussion? 6 MS. HARRIS: Judge Tinley, what -- also in 7 your packet, this attachment that KPUB attached to their 8 estimate, I prefer not to sign that; I prefer that the Court 9 authorize Judge Tinley to sign it. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maintenance sign it? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sign what? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The KPUB -- 13 MS. HARRIS: It says, "Customer Contribution 14 Agreement, Kerrville Public Utility Board," that I attached 15 to their estimate. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're probably right. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll add to my motion to 18 request that the County Judge sign the appropriate documents 19 with KPUB. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And the D.W. 21 contract. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think we have to 23 sign it. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And the D.W. -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, and D.W. contract. 6-13-05 136 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I accept that. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 3 discussion? 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes. Judge, while I 5 can get this in where it's almost relevant -- it's as close 6 to being relevant now as it's going to be the rest of the 7 day. The Sheriff has done a very thorough and thoughtful 8 study and report on detention issues in Kerr County, and we 9 just got that, and we're going to have a workshop on it 10 tomorrow, and I think I'm going to spend some time studying 11 this between now and tomorrow, because there's some fresh 12 thinking in here that -- that needs our consideration. And 13 thanks for doing that, Sheriff. 14 MS. HARRIS: Were you going to give me a copy 15 of that? 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You know the 17 organizations that talk about staff doing the work for them? 18 Well, there's our staff. And Rusty's now also a part of our 19 staff. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Rusty's got more 21 staff than we've got staff. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's what I mean. 23 Thank you, Rusty. See you tomorrow. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 25 discussion on the motion as amended? All in favor of the 6-13-05 137 1 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 2 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 4 (No response.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Lunchtime? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. We're going to break 8 for lunch, and we'll come back at 1:30 and will pick up 9 where we left off. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I didn't think we'd get 11 through this before lunch. 12 (Recess taken from 12:05 p.m. to 1:30 p.m.) 13 - - - - - - - - - - 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to 15 order, our Commissioners Court meeting for this date. We 16 were in recess for lunch. That brings us to Item 19, 17 consider and discuss purchase of three new patrol cars. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, you all know what 19 our luck has been with patrol cars for the last month and a 20 half. Hopefully it's ended, but we have had two cars 21 totaled. One was our fault, and one was a drunk driver 22 hitting a deputy head-on. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Both the person and 24 deputy were out there by a bar or something. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Getting ready to turn 6-13-05 138 1 into a brawl at the bar that the drunk driver was trying to 2 flee from. But, anyhow, we -- it was two cars totaled, and 3 anyone who's seen the budget preparations for this coming 4 year knows I have not asked, and do not intend on asking for 5 any new cars in this coming-up budget. But what I'd like to 6 do is, far the one car -- the insurance has paid off on it, 7 about $19,000 on it, which I believe the Auditor has, and he 8 has an amendment to see if y'all approve it to go put it in 9 the Capital Outlay in our office so that I can make these 10 purchases. This other money for these purchases of these 11 three cars would be seized money that we have. Seized 12 money, and I would like to use that. We're going to use 13 some of the older equipment out of the two wrecked cars, or 14 at least one of those wrecked cars, to totally equip them 15 back like they had been. But these cars will be totally 16 paid for up front, and not any lease agreements or anything 17 like that on them, which I think will save us in the long 18 run. My real intentions is to purchase one more before the 19 end of the year, making it four, so that we actually kind of 20 replace four, although two of them I didn't want to replace 21 right now. But it keeps us on that four-a-year purchase to 22 keep our cars rotating through. And that fourth car will 23 come later on. I've got a couple of seizures still pending, 24 and if those go through, then I would ask to replace that 25 fourth one. 6-13-05 139 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move we approve the 2 purchase of three new patrol cars for the Sheriff's 3 Department, the funds to come from insurance proceeds from 4 damaged vehicles and the seizure account -- asset seizure 5 account. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Any 8 further question or discussion? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just a question. 10 That gets your fleet back up to where it needs to be? 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. What will end up 12 happening is, at the end of the year, since we lost two cars 13 totally that we would not have been rotating out of the 14 fleet, next year we will, in reality, be operating with two 15 less cars than what we've had, which means we're just going 16 to keep two of the older ones longer. So -- 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But it will get us back 19 up. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 21 discussion? All in favor of that motion, signify by raising 22 your right hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 6-13-05 140 1 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Item 2 20, consider and discuss Information Technology office to 3 conduct a review of all county offices in reference to 4 technology efficiency. Commissioner Letz? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. I put this on the 6 agenda. I think the backup somewhat speaks for itself. 7 Mr. Trolinger's been in place now long enough to get an idea 8 of what we have county-wide. He's made an initial review. 9 I'd like to ask him or instruct him to go one step further 10 before our budget process, and report back as to where 11 things can be done differently in departments in the 12 technology area to improve efficiency. I think it's 13 important to have this information before we go into the 14 budget process. And -- and it may mean -- there may be 15 nothing for certain offices, may be lots of things for 16 certain offices. Some of the things may not cost much, and 17 some may cost more than we can afford, but I think it just 18 -- I'd like to have kind of his independent review as to 19 what can be done on the technology side to use the 20 taxpayers' funds a little bit more efficiently. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That includes the 22 programs that we saw last week from Software, Inc. I'm 23 putting words in your mouth, and I apologize, but there was 24 some fairly high-dollar programs presented here last week, 25 and I was up and saw some of it, and it's just magnificent 6-13-05 141 1 what technology's doing. And it would be a -- I can see 2 that it would be a huge plus for the County to have those 3 programs, and -- and to be able to purchase all that, but as 4 the Commissioner stated, what -- how does that affect our 5 manpower? Is there -- will any of that replace human 6 beings? You know, that's what I would be looking for, you 7 know, as we move on into higher tech. Does it replace 8 people, or do -- are we going to have to add people to run 9 that higher tech stuff? You know, that -- that's the kind 10 of thing that I'm going to be looking for. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's a lot -- and a lot 12 of it, my rationale is also to have -- you know, we do not 13 want to start getting in the business of looking into 14 individual elected officials' departments as to how they're 15 running things, but at the same time, when it comes to 16 budget consequences, I mean, if they're not doing something 17 that could be a more efficient use of tax dollars, I want to 18 know it. It doesn't mean they have to do it; it means they 19 may not get some other things if they don't, just is the way 20 I look at it. I think that it's a -- you know, and if they 21 don't want to participate in this review, that says 22 something, too, in my opinion. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's -- you know, we're 25 not mandating that -- or my intent is not to mandate at all 6-13-05 142 1 the -- you know, any elected official go along with this, 2 but if they don't, I want to know that as well. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: In my conversations 4 with Mr. Trolinger, I recalled a statement made by some wise 5 man probably about 100 years ago that said, "Man's genius is 6 getting a machine to do his work for him," whether it's an 7 automated reaper instead of a mule, or pulling by a mule or 8 whatever. And then we commiserated -- we were reminded that 9 if we still had telephone operators, every time you wanted 10 to make a phone call you had to get the operator, half the 11 people in the United States would be employed as telephone 12 operators. So, technology does replace machines, do replace 13 human efforts, and those people wind up having better jobs 14 instead of such -- such menial jobs. And I've had personal 15 experience where -- where radical changes were made in -- in 16 the way you use and hire and deploy people, because you use 17 personal computers, PCs, to get the work done. So, I -- 18 there is no doubt that some of that can be done in Kerr 19 County. It's a matter of whether or not we've got the will 20 to pursue -- do it. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree with that, 22 and my experience in publishing is also the same way. In 23 taking the technology of the day and applying it properly, 24 it helps curb the labor costs, which are always escalating. 25 My question would be to Mr. Trolinger. Is this a task -- 6-13-05 143 1 it's a valuable task; I know you're going to undertake it. 2 Is this something that you have to start from scratch on, or 3 do you already have a pretty good basis of understanding in 4 a lot of these cases, and will add to your understanding as 5 a result of this? 6 MR. TROLINGER: I have all the raw numbers, 7 all the raw data. I've been working on that since I started 8 evaluating what the -- each department had and what they 9 needed for next budget year, and maybe even the next two 10 budget years. We've reviewed the new system and had all the 11 vendors -- or existing vendors and our competition come in 12 so we can get an idea of how much it costs to put in the 13 newest and best equipment and software. Or if there's a 14 halfway point, what -- what that costs. So, I've got all 15 the numbers together, and I am ready to put that in -- 16 package that up in package form. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My intent also in putting 18 this agenda item in is to hopefully, you know, insulate John 19 a little bit from the departments. He's -- and elected 20 officials. He's often in the departments and looking at 21 them. I wanted it to be clear that we're the ones telling 22 him to do that; he's not snooping around and doing stuff 23 that -- you know, on his own. That's why I want it to be a 24 court order from the Court telling him to do it, and that 25 the report then comes back to us, and he's not making 6-13-05 144 1 decisions. I mean, it's coming back to us as, "This can be 2 done, and this is the cost to do it," and then we'll make 3 the -- you know, the tough calls during the budget process. 4 I mean, I'll move the agenda item. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 7 approval of the agenda item. Any further question or 8 comment? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 9 your right hand. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Next, 14 Item 21, consider and discuss directing Environmental Health 15 Department Manager and Floodplain Administrator to deny 16 permits where there are violations of the Kerr County 17 Subdivision Rules and Regulations. Commissioner Letz? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I put this on the agenda, 19 and before I turn it over to the County Attorney for some 20 quick advice on this, it came -- I was in a meeting at Road 21 and Bridge with Miguel and Road and Bridge on some 22 subdivision, and this topic came up. And there's -- when I 23 went back and looked at our O.S.S.F. rules and subdivision 24 rules -- or, rather, floodplain rules and subdivision rules, 25 there's nothing specifically that says that those permits 6-13-05 145 1 that the County grants in O.S.S.F. and floodplain can be 2 denied if they -- if the tract is in violation of our 3 subdivision rules. Assuming we had the legal authority do 4 that, I'm in favor of doing that, 'cause I think it's a way 5 for us to police ourselves. The big question is, Rex, did 6 you have time to research this? 7 MR. EMERSON: No, sir. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No? Okay. 9 MR. EMERSON: I tried, but it just didn't 10 happen. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Because of that, I would 12 probably recommend we defer this until the next meeting, 13 because I think it's very important to do it, but I want to 14 make sure that we're not overstepping our authority, because 15 when we get into subdivisions, you know, somewhat, we follow 16 state rules -- state law in all of these areas, and I think 17 we need to be very careful that we don't overstep our legal 18 authority. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think you're on to 20 something, Commissioner. It occurs to me that when such a 21 transaction occurs, a whole lot of people handle it. 22 Sometimes there's an attorney on each side that's involved 23 in it. There's a title company involved in it. Sometimes 24 there's a realtor involved, maybe septic and floodplain. 25 I'm amazed that it goes through all of that and still 6-13-05 146 1 doesn't follow our prescribed processes. And then I'll go 2 on to say that I think we ought to do that if the County 3 Attorney says it's okay. And I'm also concerned about how 4 it's administered by our floodplain people and our -- our 5 Environmental Health people. I've got some concerns that 6 when either one of those departments deal with -- with our 7 clientele, that they're not always handled as professionally 8 and courteously as they should be. I'll talk more about 9 that later. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Miguel, you just walked 11 in. We were waiting to hear from the County Attorney on 12 this matter to see if we legally can ask you and the 13 Floodplain Manager to do this, so we're going to defer it to 14 the next meeting until he has time to research it. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything further on that item? 16 If not, we'll move to Item 22, consider and discuss 17 Commissioners Court liaison positions. Commissioner Letz? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I put this on the agenda 19 because I got -- I got a little confused recently, and I was 20 looking at all the correspondence that's coming in and out 21 of our office -- offices, and what caught my mind was on 22 EMS, we appointed -- the Court appointed Baldwin and 23 Nicholson as liaisons, I think, and then the library is 24 Nicholson, and yet I've seen letters from the Judge coming 25 out on that. And the EMS one -- and it was just a matter of 6-13-05 147 1 -- you know, to me, the library one, I really don't know 2 that much about that. It just seems odd to me -- I mean, if 3 we're going to have liaisons, the liaison ought to handle 4 it. If you're going to let the Judge handle it, the Judge 5 should handle it. But to have both a liaison and another 6 member of the Court, whether it's the Judge or somebody 7 else, I think murkies the water. Murkies the water? Makes 8 the water murky. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How about "muddies"? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Muddies the water. Makes 11 the water murky. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If it's muddy, it 13 becomes murky. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: God. This has gone 15 downhill, hasn't it? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And it just -- it -- but 17 the other side of that is -- is that I'm very sensitive also 18 that each of us individually have responsibilities and, you 19 know, I guess the authority to -- you know, I don't want the 20 fact that Dave's a liaison to the library -- that doesn't 21 mean that I can't talk to the City about the library. But I 22 just think it's -- I just thought I'd maybe put this on the 23 agenda to clarify a little bit as to how everybody else 24 looks at this, 'cause I was confused by the letters that the 25 Judge wrote on those two topics. 6-13-05 148 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Two topics? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: EMS and library. I mean, 3 there was one you wrote on the EMS, and the EMS one really 4 was more of a -- just a list of questions, which, to me, the 5 way that I would have handled that would be to give that to 6 Baldwin and Nicholson, let them get it over to the City to 7 keep them from dealing with so many different people. On 8 the library one, it was a little bit different. I mean, 9 Nicholson is the liaison there, but in my opinion, things 10 were said in the -- in that letter that I don't think 11 Nicholson or the Judge had the authority to say, such that 12 the contract is going to terminate at the end of the term if 13 we don't come to some agreement. I don't think this Court's 14 ever voted that we're going to terminate any contract with 15 the library, so on this, you know -- 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: On the library 17 issue, my understanding is that the Court -- one, that the 18 Court had voted some time ago to notify the City that that 19 contract was going to end and we'll need to negotiate an 20 agreement. And then in my letter, what I said to the 21 Interim City Manager and the Library Director was 22 essentially in accordance with the contract; here's what has 23 to happen. Now, neither one of them responded to me. 24 Instead, the City Manager responded to the Judge, so I 25 thought it was appropriate for the Judge to respond back. 6-13-05 149 1 And I -- and, in fact, I appreciate it, because -- coming to 2 my defense, because I was saying, "Let's abide by the 3 contract," and they were saying, "No, that's out. We're not 4 going to do that." 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, and I think -- 6 well, I think that the City was wrong to not respond to you 7 personally, then. I mean, I think -- but I think the City 8 needs to be told, then -- to me, the answer is, 9 "Commissioner Nicholson's the liaison; respond to him." I 10 mean, I just think it's -- otherwise, why have liaisons? 11 That's the way I look at it. I mean -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If memory serves me 13 correctly, we served notice on the City about the 14 cancellation or not renewing the existing contract -- I 15 forgot how we phrased it -- over a year ago, prior to last 16 budget year, and that got stonewalled and dropped through 17 the cracks because we didn't meet with the City last year. 18 So, I believe that notification was in place, but -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I guess my concern 20 comes in -- 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Am I right, Judge? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, I agree with that. 24 I mean, I agree with what Commissioner Nicholson said. I 25 guess my issue or concern goes as much into -- really into 6-13-05 150 1 Open Meetings violations. If we have too many people, but 2 not the full Court, negotiating, I think we're getting into 3 trouble. I think -- you know, that's just how I look at it, 4 you know. I see Rex staring at me or glaring at me; I'm not 5 sure. And, you know, I personally think that if we appoint 6 an EMS -- Baldwin and Nicholson to, you know, meet with the 7 staff and come back with a recommendation to the Court, I 8 don't think that's a violation, but as soon as we start -- 9 as soon as I start getting involved, that's three of us 10 negotiating that; I think it gets a little bit more 11 questionable. So, anyway, those are all my concerns. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let me ask you, 13 Commissioner, the -- I think all -- a lot of us are seeing 14 the airport as a model of one way to work cooperatively and 15 productively together, and there's two of you working on 16 that. And we don't -- that's the way it's always been. We 17 don't see that as a violation of the -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, we started that 19 by court assignment. By court assignment. That was when we 20 first sat down with them, worked out a governance agreement 21 and operating agreement. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: But when we and 23 Commissioner Baldwin were assigned by this Court the 24 responsibility for the EMS contract, we certainly raised a 25 question about whether two of us working on it was 6-13-05 151 1 appropriate, so I backed out of it, and Commissioner 2 Baldwin's been -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh. Oh, I didn't know 4 you backed out. But, either way -- 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I didn't see it as 6 any different from the airport. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think it's a -- I 8 think as long as -- like, on the airport one, every meeting, 9 I believe both of us probably attended it, but we didn't 10 discuss it with other members of the Court. Whenever there 11 was any discussion beyond between Bill and I, it was done in 12 the full court. My concern comes is that I thought -- 13 actually, I didn't know that you removed yourself from EMS. 14 My concern was on the EMS one, that you had Nicholson and 15 Baldwin doing it; all of a sudden, the Judge was sending 16 letters also. Well, then there's three people negotiating, 17 and I think that's a violation. So, I just think it's -- 18 you know, we either need to use liaisons or we need to use 19 the Court as a whole. I just -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm -- what was I negotiating? 21 I'm having a hard time figuring that out. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, it was terms of the 23 contract and requesting information. And -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: On the EMS? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 6-13-05 152 1 JUDGE TINLEY: I just asked a pretty good 2 litany of questions. We had us a joint meeting, and we were 3 each instructed to -- whatever questions we had concerning 4 the information furnished, to direct those questions to the 5 City Manager. And I assumed that each of us, if we had 6 individual questions, would direct them to the City Manager 7 as per the meeting. I copied everybody else with my letter. 8 But I merely asked questions, I wasn't negotiating any 9 deals. I -- with regard to the letter that I received on 10 the library from the then City Manager, that letter was 11 directed to me. It concerned initially some communication 12 received from Commissioner Nicholson, and I was responding 13 to a letter directed to me. I -- I staffed that letter, 14 that response, a draft of it before it was sent out, with 15 everybody that was reasonably available, and before I sent 16 it out, because I was concerned about the general tenor of 17 the letter. That letter did not contain anything that -- in 18 my opinion, that I wasn't authorized to speak on behalf of 19 the Court for to the extent that I indicated I was speaking 20 on behalf of the Court. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess what I'm saying 22 is that -- maybe the problem's with the City. Maybe the 23 City needs to be told they need to deal with the liaison and 24 not the County Judge. Because, I mean, I just see -- you 25 know, I know that on the EMS issue, and -- 'cause I happened 6-13-05 153 1 to visit with the City Manager on another issue, and he -- 2 this came up. And I said to me, it's confusing, I mean, 3 receiving letters from multiple people. We pass a court 4 order that says we're doing it this way. Then, all of a 5 sudden, letters come from another -- from another member of 6 the Court. And, to me, it should -- we need to be 7 consistent. Either we should use the liaison or we 8 shouldn't. I think I -- you know, the library, if I've got 9 an issue on that, to me, I look at Commissioner Nicholson, 10 you know, especially on this contract. Once we get into 11 this contract negotiation, if I have a question, sure, I 12 might call the City Manager. I might call Antonio. I mean, 13 I don't think they want me to call Antonio, but I think that 14 the -- we need to use the liaison system. And I think that 15 when we're doing these contract negotiations, if we get a 16 third member -- and we have two appointees or one appointee, 17 if we start getting other members of the Court involved, I 18 think we start crossing the line on Open Meetings. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which raises a 20 question I'd like to direct to the County Attorney. Your 21 opinion that you wrote and provided all of us with copies of 22 recently talked about your belief that two Commissioners -- 23 appointed by the Court, I assume; not just ad hoc, but 24 appointed by the Court -- assigned to a particular task, in 25 your view, constituted a potential for a violation. Is that 6-13-05 154 1 correct? Was that correct phraseology? A potential for a 2 violation of Open Meetings? 3 MR. EMERSON: That's correct, based on -- 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Of Open Meeting law? 5 MR. EMERSON: Based on an A.G. opinion, yes, 6 sir. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And nothing has 8 happened subsequent to your writing that in terms of 9 Attorney General's opinion that -- that changes the dynamics 10 of that? 11 MR. EMERSON: No, sir, there's no subsequent 12 opinion that addresses that issue, that would mediate it one 13 way or another. Now, I think the difference in the two 14 issues that -- that Commissioner Nicholson was just talking 15 about is that with the Airport Board, y'all's meetings are 16 all open records. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 18 MR. EMERSON: And where this originally came 19 up on the other issue was, it was going to be a closed 20 meeting between two Commissioners and a representative of 21 the City to discuss the contracts, and that was where a big 22 part of the problem was. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think -- 24 MR. EMERSON: Now -- and the advice -- 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I want to draw you 6-13-05 155 1 out on that one point. So, if we were to do again what we 2 did in setting up our -- our meetings and negotiations which 3 led to governance documents, interlocal agreements, 4 contracts and so forth with respect to the airport, if we 5 were to duplicate that process again, and the meetings were 6 conducted as they were for the airport, two members of this 7 body with two members of City Council, with staff, all out 8 in the open, does that constitute a problem? 9 MR. EMERSON: Not conducted in open, posted 10 meetings, no, sir. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They weren't posted 12 meetings, though. They were -- I mean -- 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They weren't posted. 14 No, that's right, they were not posted. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think the -- 16 MR. EMERSON: The problem is, it's a gray 17 line that's not clear one way or another. What the A.G. 18 opinion says is that because there's only five of y'all 19 sitting up there, if two of you -- and this is 20 hypothetically speaking, so I don't mean to offend anybody. 21 If two of you go to a meeting and you come back and you both 22 say that, you know, that table was purple, and we've decided 23 that table is purple and we want you to vote on it being 24 purple, because you're so definitively on the same page, the 25 odds are that at least one of the other three is going to go 6-13-05 156 1 with you on it. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Rubber stamp? 3 MR. EMERSON: And it's rubber-stamping. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That doesn't happen 5 here, in my opinion. 6 MR. EMERSON: But it's not -- it's never been 7 tested in court. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Well, it 9 certainly didn't happen -- 10 MR. EMERSON: The A.G. opinion is sitting 11 there, but so far nobody's challenged it, or at least I 12 couldn't find a court case with it. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That certainly didn't 14 happen in the situation with the negotiations with the City 15 on the airport, because every document was -- was discussed 16 openly, changes made, ideas input, scrapped, and this and 17 that and back and forth and back and forth. So, till we 18 finally had a document that was talked out, everybody could 19 understand and agree upon, so there was a major difference 20 there. 21 MR. EMERSON: I understand. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't think it ever 23 happens the way the -- the A.G.'s opinion is in this Court. 24 I mean, I go -- and if Mr. Nicholson had chosen to meet with 25 us that day, we sat in this room right here and simply 6-13-05 157 1 received the information from the City. There wasn't any 2 negotiations, wasn't any decisions made, in my mind, at all. 3 I simply received the information and then thought about 4 bringing it back to the Court, and did not. But that wasn't 5 a -- even if I did bring it back to the Court, it would be, 6 "This is what they said. Let's debate it and decide whether 7 we want to go that route or not." It wasn't something 8 that -- and I would never, ever come in here and say I've 9 made the decision -- "They presented this, and I've made the 10 decision this is the way it should be. I want you to vote 11 for it." That never happens, ever. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would go down in 13 flames, wouldn't it? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We couldn't agree the 16 table's purple in here, probably. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just put it on the 19 agenda; I don't know whether any action needs to be taken. 20 I just think, personally, we need to be mindful of the 21 liaison, that if we ask someone to be a liaison, that person 22 should be a liaison. And, you know, you have to -- it's a 23 judgment issue, to me, as to -- if I want to find out, you 24 know, how many rabies cases have been found out in my 25 precinct, I don't see any reason to go through Commissioner 6-13-05 158 1 Nicholson on that, but if there's some kind of operational 2 issue, I think it does need to go through Commissioner 3 Nicholson. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Dead horse. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And, Commissioner 6 Baldwin, the reason -- I think you know, the reason I didn't 7 even attend that meeting is it could have -- might have 8 slowed down the process. Absent an opinion that it put us 9 in jeopardy, I surely would have attended. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You did fine. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me voice a concern, if I 12 might. When -- when we were having our joint meeting with 13 the City, there was concern and I think, to some degree, 14 frustration expressed about our inability to meet directly 15 with the people at the City that are involved in those 16 various functions that -- that we have -- that are jointly 17 operated or contracted for. I think Commissioner Letz 18 probably was, as I recall, among the most vocal about not 19 being able to go directly to the source of the information, 20 that being the Library Director, for example, but rather 21 being told that he must direct all of his inquiries or 22 communications through the City Manager. And, of course, we 23 take enough flak for lack of communication or what sometimes 24 is perceived as bad relations with the City leadership. I 25 think it's mostly lack of communication. Anything that's 6-13-05 159 1 going to -- that's going to further restrict that free and 2 open communication I think -- I think should be questioned, 3 because we -- we need to get that communication going as 4 freely and as -- as frequently as possible. I think it's a 5 matter of judgment. 6 Certainly, none of us here on this Court -- 7 we know that we're not free to make any commitments, cut any 8 deals, but I don't think that any of us individually should 9 be put in a position, if approached by anyone in City 10 leadership, for example, or anyone else having a legitimate 11 interest in it, and we're engaged about a particular subject 12 that we're not the, quote, liaison for that particular 13 subject, that we should say, Hold the phone here, folks, 14 you're going to need to talk to Commissioner Nicholson or 15 Commissioner Letz or whomever. I don't -- I don't think 16 that's conducive to open government. What you're doing is 17 channeling all of your information and expertise and -- and 18 then recommendation through that particular individual, and 19 I think you're probably more open to a rubber-stamp 20 allegation than you would be otherwise. I think it's a 21 matter of having the ability to use good judgment, to listen 22 to what's being said, to respond to what's being said, to 23 keep the discussion open and on the mark, but not making any 24 commitments. Certainly, any of us are free to express our 25 individual opinion; we do it all the time. But I just don't 6-13-05 160 1 want to be hamstrung with being under any sort of a 2 directive, enforceable or otherwise, that tells me that if 3 someone in City leadership or otherwise wants to engage me 4 about a subject that I'm not the designated liaison about, 5 that I can't talk to them. And I'm just probably not going 6 to pay attention to it if I am so directed. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Hate to be that blunt, but -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But you're going to -- if 10 you -- if the Court has voted to put an individual, whether 11 it be you or any one of us five up here, as kind of the 12 person to get with the staff and come back to this Court 13 with a recommendation, and another member of this body 14 starts negotiating one-on-one with them over on the side, 15 that's a problem. I think that if -- I don't have any -- I 16 mean, certainly, any one of us can talk with any member of 17 City staff about any issue at any time, and if it starts 18 getting into the area of -- you know, we're negotiating a 19 contract, I think it needs to be brought back to this Court. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: No question. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Otherwise, I think -- 22 because if you're getting input, and then that input goes to 23 Commissioner Williams and I'm not part of that, I think 24 that's a problem. I think it's an Open Meetings problem, 25 and I think it's a problem on the workings of this Court, 6-13-05 161 1 you know. So -- but I think you need to use your judgment, 2 or any of us use our judgment that if, out of this 3 conversation, something's come up that's meaningful that the 4 whole Court needs to be aware of, I think it needs to be 5 handled in the full Court. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything that's going to 7 commit the County and this Court certainly needs to be done 8 right here. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think that when 10 we're doing a specific thing like a contract negotiation on 11 a topic, I think, as much as possible during that period, 12 that one Commissioner that's been assigned, or two 13 Commissioners, need to try to come be the point person and 14 come back to the Court as a whole when there's a question. 15 That's when I think -- you know, I think you do have to look 16 at and use judgment on it, but I think that there are times 17 when you really need to let the liaison come back with a 18 draft plan, or liaison come back and say, "Hey, I don't want 19 to do this any more; let somebody else do it," you know. I 20 think that's probably more than enough said, at least from 21 my standpoint. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I see it a 23 little bit different from the way the Judge sees it. If -- 24 if the head guru over at the City called me and wanted to 25 talk about the airport, I would probably listen to a certain 6-13-05 162 1 extent, but as far as carrying on a detailed conversation, I 2 would not even get into it. I would tell him that he had to 3 talk to one of you guys, is the way I would -- it's not 4 shoving my responsibility; it's just that's the way the 5 thing, in my opinion, works. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that's the 7 way it works. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. That's when your 9 judgment would tell you this is getting into an area -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: -- of maybe refining or 12 defining policy. And -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's right. That's 14 correct, mm-hmm. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm out of there. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything further on that item? 18 Let's go to Item 23, request approval of resolution to veto 19 H.B. 2438. Where's our Tax Assessor? Collecting taxes 20 somewhere, I hope. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, we're -- 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, her point is 23 well-taken in this letter. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I agree. I 6-13-05 163 1 agree with the resolution. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that a motion? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It is. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded in 7 support of the resolution to veto House Bill 2438. Any 8 question or discussion? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And authorize County 10 Judge to sign? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And -- well, it's 12 passed the legislative, but it's not vetoing it. Original 13 goes to the governor. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right. It -- yeah. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 16 discussion? All in favor of the motion signify by raising 17 your right hand. 18 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 22 What's your pleasure, gentlemen, on these next three items? 23 Do you want to defer them and go straight to reports? How 24 do you want to handle that? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My initial question is, 6-13-05 164 1 why are they executive session? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Contracts, negotiation. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess I've never viewed 4 these as executive session, I mean, items. They've always 5 been done in -- 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Want to go ahead and 7 get into 24 and 25? I can clear that up pretty quick. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why -- well, go 9 ahead, clear it up. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go with 24, consider and 11 discuss the library contract. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Call them both at 13 the same time. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I'll call 25 also, consider 15 and discuss Animal Control contract. Commissioner 16 Nicholson? 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Based on advice from 18 the County Attorney and my desire not to be the first 19 elected official in Kerr County in 149 years to go to jail, 20 I don't have anything to offer on these two issues. 21 (Laughter.) 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Get the County Judge 23 to write a letter. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: If he wants to go to 25 jail, I'm good with that. 6-13-05 165 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's -- I'm 3 serious. I talked to the County Attorney this morning, and 4 he advised me that -- that discussing contract negotiations 5 strategy in closed session might be problematic in terms of 6 Open Meetings Act, so I don't have any more to offer on 7 that. We're at the same place we were last time we talked. 8 We advised the City on January 28th that we wanted to 9 renegotiate the Animal Control contract. We haven't heard 10 from them. And all of you know the status of the library 11 contract. Same -- same sort of situation. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Have you visited with the 13 City Manager at all on either of these to know when we may 14 be getting a response? 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I haven't. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: I think the documentation on 17 the letter that I got from the City Manager said that when 18 they got those numbers available, they'd be furnished. Now, 19 with regard to the Animal Control, I forwarded to the City 20 Manager what Commissioner Nicholson forwarded to me for 21 their information, which is the last three years, I believe, 22 Commissioner? On operations? 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Right. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Appears to me, with the 25 amount of time we've not talked about these two contracts, 6-13-05 166 1 we probably could have resolved them. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, it sort of 3 strikes at what the Interim City Manager seemed to be saying 4 this morning, that there's a difference in relationships 5 depending upon whether you're a partner or a supplier of 6 services. The City has told us that -- that we have not met 7 our responsibility to provide a new library contract. I 8 don't think that's -- I'm working on the library contract, 9 but I don't think that's our duty. They're the one that 10 owns the library, and they're the ones that are inviting 11 financial participation in it. It's kind of -- kind of 12 unusual, I think, to ask the customer to provide the 13 contract. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would jump at the 15 opportunity for us to write that contract. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thanks to the County 17 Attorney, I've got a draft that's well underway. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd give them a draft 19 in a heartbeat. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's well underway, 21 and with the work done last year by Commissioner Williams, 22 we're doing that. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think my view on -- or 24 take on what he was trying to say was that on the three that 25 we're partners, we've got to work together, whether we like 6-13-05 167 1 it or not. On the ones that we're not partners, we can wave 2 at each other and see them down the road and not ever deal 3 with them again on that topic. Hopefully that won't happen 4 on any of these; I think it's not in the taxpayers' best 5 interests. But, you know, that's the way he looks at it, 6 which I don't really understand the benefit, but ... 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's all I've got 8 on 24 and 25, Judge. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Item 26, consider and discuss 10 EMS contract. As indicated this morning, that was put on 11 there as a safety valve measure. I've got nothing to offer 12 on it. If anybody else does, step up. Okay, that brings us 13 to Item 27, reports from departments. Animal Control? 14 MS. ROMAN: Hello. Well, as you all know, 15 I've had a few obstacles come my way, few minor problems. 16 They have been resolved, and successfully resolved, so all 17 is well and everything's pretty much back on track. I have 18 made a few changes in the way we handle money transactions, 19 things of that nature. A few other changes in working a 20 little closer with the local veterinarians and rescue 21 groups. As far as my budget, I'm pretty much on track 22 there. I have made a few changes, changed uniform 23 companies. And Rusty will be glad to know, I changed 24 patches. The uniforms that I'm currently getting, we should 25 get them next week. They're the navy blue -- navy blue 6-13-05 168 1 pants with the white security shirts, saving me about $800 2 per year. Employees. At the moment, I have three employees 3 besides myself. I am short one officer. I am taking my 4 time on -- on hiring another officer. I am changing a few 5 things as far as the screening process of -- of new 6 employees. Long-term projects and goals, I've got numerous, 7 the first being to have a full-time, honest, dependable 8 staff. Replace outdoor kennels. Looking into grants for 9 expansion of -- of the animal shelter, and basically working 10 closer with other organizations such as the H.A.R.T. 11 Foundation, Humane Society, things like that. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Janie, can you give 13 us some idea of your opinion about forecasting the future? 14 How long will it be before we find that our capacity of our 15 current facility is insufficient for us to meet state law? 16 MS. ROMAN: We're getting very close. Very 17 close. This time of year especially, we are just overloaded 18 with animals. Our euthanasia rate has gone down quite a 19 bit, simply because we're working closer with other 20 organizations and adopting these animals out, such as rescue 21 ranches, rescue groups, things like that. This time of year 22 it's really tough on us, because we -- we're such a small 23 facility. With the amount of animals coming in, we just 24 don't -- don't have the space available. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The statistics, do 6-13-05 169 1 they still show more activity within the city limits than it 2 is in the county? 3 MS. ROMAN: Yes. Yes. The -- and I didn't 4 bring those with me. I just assumed that Commissioner 5 Nicholson had those. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's okay. I just 7 wanted to know if we're still holding the -- 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's about 60 9 Kerrville, 40 County. 10 MS. ROMAN: Right. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Is it trending more or staying 12 pretty steady? 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: My recollection, 14 it's been fairly steady. 15 MS. ROMAN: It's been fairly steady. Yes, it 16 has. So, any other questions? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- on the expansion, 18 which has been a topic for many, many years, that's a need 19 out there, is that something that we can probably do 20 in-house through trustees at the jail -- or inmates at the 21 jail, rather? 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Sure. 23 MS. ROMAN: That would be great. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. I mean, we have a 25 work force out there. Some of those materials -- I mean, 6-13-05 170 1 materials are not that expensive, and you might look at that 2 in your budget at least, to get a larger -- 3 MS. ROMAN: We definitely have room for 4 expansion. As a matter of fact, on one side of the 5 building -- I don't know how many of you have been out 6 there, but we do have some -- like, a garage-type door that 7 has double doors that open, and I believe that was built 8 that way so that we could have room for -- for expansion. 9 At the moment, like I said, I am looking into getting six 10 newer outdoor runs. The ones that we currently have have 11 been there approximately five years. They're pretty run 12 down; they don't look good. Two of them aren't -- we're not 13 able to use them because they're in pretty bad shape, so I'm 14 looking into purchasing new -- new outdoor runs. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On those, you might get 16 with -- you know, I don't know the design. It may be 17 cheaper to build them. 18 MS. ROMAN: It could very well be. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, it just depends 20 on -- but I think with your knowledge of that facility, it 21 may be helpful to help design some that are -- or if the 22 Sheriff can provide the labor to build them, that -- you 23 know, I know that on chain link, the bottom chain link 24 always gets torn up, so if you put a double row -- you can 25 put, like, a 2-foot piece of heavy-duty something or other 6-13-05 171 1 above it, something that will be easier to maintain without 2 redoing the whole thing. 3 MS. ROMAN: The ones that we currently have 4 are more -- they're not chain link; they're more like cattle 5 -- built out of the cattle panel material, so they're a 6 little bit more sturdy. And we have over -- it's not a full 7 tarp; it's more like a -- like, just a shade material. It's 8 pretty sturdy that we have up there to keep animals from 9 climbing out, because believe it or not, we have quite a few 10 animals that can just easily climb out. So -- but, yeah, 11 there's -- that's something we can definitely sit down and 12 discuss. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 14 MS. ROMAN: Anything further? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. Appreciate it. 16 MS. ROMAN: Thank you. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Mr. Walston, 18 Extension Office. 19 MR. WALSTON: Thank you. Good to see y'all 20 again this afternoon. I'm not real sure exactly what type 21 of report you want. I -- I'm glad to be able to offer my -- 22 my report. I hope y'all are all aware of the county travel 23 report that we turn in monthly, and I -- the question is as 24 to whether that's handled the way you'd like. Is there a 25 way -- I think now it's turned in to the clerk's office. I 6-13-05 172 1 don't know if that's -- it needs to be turned in to the 2 Judge's secretary or -- it's basically a monthly travel 3 report that tells you day-to-day what we do and how many 4 miles we travel and how many people we see. If we can -- if 5 that's satisfactory with y'all, I mean, I can do it either 6 way. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's fine. We get a 8 copy of it. I mean, we get -- there's no change, I don't 9 think, in that area. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What's fine? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The reports they turn in 12 right now. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Turn it in to us. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They turn it in to the 15 Clerk. 16 MR. WALSTON: It's going in to the clerk 17 right now. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, it comes in with 19 our monthly reports. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's okay. 22 MR. WALSTON: I mean, if that's -- that's the 23 main thing. I'd like to get -- I'd like for y'all to see 24 what we do. I mean, I think -- I want to keep y'all as 25 aware and informed as to the -- you know, the amount of work 6-13-05 173 1 and the work that we're getting done, 'cause I feel like 2 that's a -- a real important issue as far as -- you know, if 3 it's not getting to you, I want to get it to you one way or 4 another, if I send you an e-mail or whatever. So, I realize 5 y'all may not have time to see them every time, but if you 6 do have time, I want you to be able to have access to it. 7 Just to give you a little bit of rundown as 8 to kind of where we're sitting there in the Extension 9 Office, currently we have our -- we're a strongly 10 volunteer-based driven office. We have, with our various 11 different Extension Program council committees, about 50 12 people working on those committees right now that help us to 13 be our directive force behind our program, in identifying 14 the different educational programs, field days, issues, 15 areas where we feel like we need to be addressing. We work 16 with those committees on a year-round basis, and so a lot of 17 the educational programs we're going to be talking about 18 deals with as far as the group that I work with, the Agnet 19 Resource and Wildlife Committee. We also have a 20 Family/Consumer Science and a 4-H and Youth Committee, and 21 also an Executive Board. And so that's -- that's the 22 overall Extension Program council group that we work with. 23 And, like I say, there's about 50 volunteers on that. We 24 have right at 75 master gardeners in our Master Gardener 25 program right now that are serving diligently as we speak 6-13-05 174 1 answering questions, phone calls, office visits, and helping 2 me out a lot, enabling them to learn more about that. 3 That's part of their learning process, is answering phone 4 calls and answering questions. And I spend a considerable 5 amount of my time helping them learn about that. So -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I want to ask you 7 something about that. Is 75 master gardeners -- is that 8 normal? That sounds like a lot of people for a small 9 county. 10 MR. WALSTON: That's three classes. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Huh? 12 MR. WALSTON: We do 25 to a class, and this 13 is the third class, so we've trained 75. Now, those that 14 are actually active, participating -- as you can imagine, 15 some of that first group, they're still members and they're 16 still enrolled as master gardeners. They may not work as 17 much as they did the first year, but they're still 18 participating. So, in order -- you have to have a certain 19 percentage that you're going to lose every year, but they're 20 still on the rolls, and they still -- if you call them and 21 need help, you can still get some help. So, it's -- it is a 22 good many. And with what we're going to be looking at in 23 the next two years, they're looking at hosting the state 24 Master Gardener meeting, and that's going to be bringing in 25 about 600 master gardeners from around the state of Texas. 6-13-05 175 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wow. Fill up all the 2 hotel rooms so that the city makes more money. 3 MR. WALSTON: You bet you. So, you know, 4 that's something that they're -- it's -- I think it's 5 something that's going to be a real driving program for 6 them, that's going to really pull the group together. 7 It's -- this is the third year of this group of master 8 gardeners, so they're really still in their infant stages of 9 getting organized and learning some organizational skills 10 and management, but it's really a good group to work with. 11 And thanks to y'all with our greenhouse and a lot of y'all's 12 support, we really got this group going, and I think they're 13 really going to be able to -- I couldn't do without them, as 14 far as horticulture work. You know, in a county this size 15 and the amount of horticulture questions and calls you get 16 in, it's vital. I mean, without them -- without 17 horticulturalists, it'd be a full-time job, me sitting there 18 answering phone calls. So -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: When do they meet? 20 MR. WALSTON: The master gardeners? They 21 meet the first Wednesday of every month. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Wednesday out there? 23 MR. WALSTON: Mm-hmm. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- if you remember, 25 or Kathy remembers, I might want to go to that. Awhile 6-13-05 176 1 back, the Court appointed me to develop some sort of a tree 2 plan for the courthouse square, and that sounds like a great 3 project for the master gardeners. 4 MR. WALSTON: I'm sure they'd be glad to. 5 And, you know, we're also looking at starting a junior 6 master gardener program this summer. And Faye Drozd, which 7 is currently our president of master gardeners, is going to 8 be instrumental in getting that junior master gardener 9 program going. I'm sure they'd be glad to help out however 10 they can. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: First Wednesday. 12 MR. WALSTON: As far as -- as far as another 13 group that y'all are very well familiar with, as far as our 14 4-H concern, just to give you a little bit of an average -- 15 an idea as to what we actually have in Kerr County, we're 16 running 15 4-H clubs. That includes both community 4-H 17 clubs as well as project clubs, such as our horse project, 18 our shooting sports, and which we're just now starting a new 19 BB gun project, and it's taken off. We've got a lot of 20 interest, a lot of parents in it. So, our BB gun project 21 has taken off. We also -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, is that -- who got 23 involved -- what caused the BB project to get started? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that Arthur Nagle? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that Arthur Nagle? 6-13-05 177 1 MR. WALSTON: Well, actually, it's been 2 trying to get started for several years. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I know Arthur's been 4 trying. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is this the one 6 Mr. Nagle brought to our -- 7 MR. WALSTON: Laurinda has been trying to get 8 the fire going in it for a while, and about the time Arthur 9 was interested in getting in it, you know, we -- we had some 10 other parents that came around, and so it -- you know, it 11 kind of developed. And Mr. Nagle was -- you know, his 12 timing was probably pretty handy, so the publicity sure 13 didn't hurt to -- to stir up some interest in it. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He did. 15 MR. WALSTON: So, we've got parents involved, 16 and they're currently shooting out at the -- at the Rose 17 Ranch. And the Olympic Shooting Sports Committee is very 18 excited that the 4-H air rifle and the BB gun program's 19 going, so we've got a lot of enthused parents and leaders 20 and groups that I think will help make this work. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One more thing. Before, 22 you mentioned the Rose Ranch. 23 MR. WALSTON: Yeah. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you anticipate the 25 Olympic Shooting, you know, facility is going to increase or 6-13-05 178 1 give an opportunity to increase some of the shooting sports 2 in 4-H or anything? I mean -- 3 MR. WALSTON: I think it will. I think it's 4 going to be a combination of several things, such as getting 5 involved in increasing the -- the BB gun project. Right now 6 we've got a trap and skeet program that's got an excellent 7 group of leaders that are very knowledgeable in coaching and 8 leadership, and I think it's just -- it's going to be a 9 combination of some things as far as the 4-H program is 10 concerned. That -- but I think it's going to increase. 11 When the -- when kids can go out and see Olympic shooters, 12 and hopefully get some instruction by Olympic shooters, I 13 think it would interest me if I was a 14-, 15-, 16-year-old 14 kid to get an opportunity to have that kind of help. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How young are kids that 16 get involved with the trap and skeet or BB shooting? 17 MR. WALSTON: Nine. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Nine? 19 MR. WALSTON: Just barely big enough to hold 20 up a gun. We got -- as a matter of fact, we've got some 21 small guns that are cut down and are small for them. And 22 that's why we think the BB gun project is going to help us 23 get those kids and get the safety -- all the safety aspects 24 covered under the same -- same gamut. So, I think we're 25 going to be able to get a lot -- a lot accomplished and 6-13-05 179 1 speed up some of the other areas. Our rifle project, I 2 think by moving it out to the Rose Ranch after this last 3 year and some problems with the ventilation system, not 4 being able to shoot where we've been shooting, I think 5 having it out there and having the whole 4-H shooting sports 6 complex at one facility will help build the whole thing. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Roy, does this mean 8 that all 4-H shooting programs now either have been or will 9 be moved out to Red Rose Ranch? 10 MR. WALSTON: That's the plan. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good. 12 MR. WALSTON: That's the plan. The rifle 13 program is -- will be the last one, and we'll get it 14 gathered up this next spring in facilities out there, and 15 seeing kind of what we've got. It's -- we're still in the 16 process of getting the facility ready and getting the rifle 17 range, so as soon as it's ready, we'll be moving out there. 18 Like I say, we've got 15 4-H clubs. We have a little over 19 300, 400 members, little over 100 certified leaders in our 20 4-H clubs. And, you know, as you can imagine, through our 21 club managers and projects leaders, those folks are really 22 what makes our 4-H program clear. 23 As far as -- since I'm on the 4-H program, 24 I'll go ahead and finish up with that part of it. Y'all saw 25 kind of this morning our glory of our state 4-H Roundup, 6-13-05 180 1 which is part of an area that I take a lot of pride in and I 2 put a lot of emphasis on, and that's an opportunity to take 3 senior 4-H'ers to College Station and spend three or four 4 days competing and meeting kids from all over the state. 5 And this year with that group, we were able to get all three 6 teams across the stage and be recognized in the first or 7 second -- in the top three teams. We had an opportunity to 8 take the third-place wool team to the national contest this 9 next week, and I declined it because of the fact if -- if 10 you ever take that group of kids to the national contest, 11 they can only go once, and so I didn't feel like they were 12 quite ready. And when we go, we want to be able to have a 13 chance to win it, and so hopefully next year we'll be ready 14 to -- ready to go. 15 Another area that is something that's new 16 that we're starting up -- and, actually, we did it this last 17 year; it's called a B.C.I., and I mentioned that this 18 morning and I realized I didn't explain what it was. It's 19 Building Community Inclusion, and it's a state program that 20 is basically bringing -- it's about bringing kids out of the 21 community and getting them involved in our 4-H programs, 22 like the Salvation Army group that we worked with this year 23 after school. It's an after-school program. We worked with 24 them on character building, and we worked with them and met 25 with that group of kids, which is primarily, I believe, 6-13-05 181 1 third and fourth graders -- second, third, and fourth 2 graders, about that age group. And we took our council kids 3 and let them have the opportunity to work with those kids 4 on -- about building character and what all the different 5 character development aspects, and we were able to include 6 and get some of those kids involved in our 4-H program. 7 I believe there was about a half dozen of 8 them that had signed up for 4-H since we started meeting 9 with them. That started off from a grant that we were able 10 to get -- Laurinda applied for and got, and now she also has 11 the $500 grant from the 4-H Foundation that she's going to 12 have, too. So, that's kind of where we're targeting and 13 putting a lot of emphasis, with Laurinda's expertise in the 14 4-H program assistant position and spending some more time 15 in working in community involvement and bringing kids into 16 the 4-H program through community involvement programs. One 17 -- another program that that group will be working with 18 is -- is a fishing derby coming up here in July, July 5th 19 and 6th. They're going to have 12 fishing derbies, and one 20 of which will be involving that Salvation Army group and 21 letting them give -- get an opportunity to work with those 22 council kids. 23 Just to change gears a little bit, let me 24 tell you a little bit of what we've been doing on our ag 25 side of the program. Just this past month, we had a 6-13-05 182 1 multi-county meat goat field day which brought in about 85 2 producers. Really had a good turnout. Spent an evening 3 just talking about production meat goats, management plan 4 identification. Talked to Bob Dittmar; he was able to help 5 us with that as far as toxic plants. Really had a good 6 response from that group. In April we had a pecan grafting 7 demonstration that our Horticulture Committee -- actually, 8 our Ag Committee worked on, and it's a program that they've 9 had for three years, and some pecan grafting. We had about 10 45, and that's also a multi-county program that we work with 11 Bandera County on. I believe in early May we had a turf 12 grass or home lawn program that we involved -- brought in 13 about 35 individuals and visited with them for an evening on 14 management and care of turf grass, and that was in hopes of 15 curtailing some questions and some problems that we might 16 get into this summer with some lawn care problems. So, 17 hopefully we were able to help out some homeowners there. 18 A program that I started last year was the 19 Hill Country Living 101 program. Y'all may have heard -- 20 heard a little bit about that. It's basically geared 21 towards new landowners that are moving into the hill country 22 area, so that they can learn a little bit more about -- and 23 because a lot of these people, as you can imagine, are 24 coming from Houston, Dallas, Fort Worth, and are not 25 familiar with the different parts of the hill country. And 6-13-05 183 1 with that, we -- we come in; we have them in there. Not -- 2 they do not realize all the different agencies that are 3 available to them free of charge. Who do they go to if 4 they've got problems? If they've got cedar that they want 5 to control, they hear about our cedar control program, if 6 they need help with whatever, so we talk about some 7 different agency issues. Get a lot of plant identification 8 and range work, as well as some information. Just spend a 9 lot of time on site evaluations and getting out in the 10 country and letting them see what's out there with some -- 11 with some hands-on, where we were able to kind of hold their 12 hand and explain some of that to them. 13 July the 26th, I've got a rangeland 14 restoration program coming up. It's going to be out at the 15 Shin Oak Ranch out in west Kerr County, and we're going to 16 spend all day out there talking about rangeland restoration, 17 watershed management, brush management, possibly talk a 18 little bit -- we're going to discuss hopefully some 19 information on fire control burning and some things like 20 that. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Roy, it appears to me -- 22 I don't want to pick on west Kerr County; they need all the 23 help they can get out there, but it appears that a lot of 24 the prescribed burning and things that -- programs you're 25 talking about are hosted more out in west Kerr County, and 6-13-05 184 1 it's just a long ways to go for a lot of people in east Kerr 2 County. Is there a way that we can divide them, have west 3 Kerr County and then the same topic in east Kerr County? 4 MR. WALSTON: Well, if we can find the time 5 to do it, we could. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just work a little bit 7 longer hours. 8 MR. WALSTON: There's only 24 of them in a 9 day, and that's about all I can get. And the reason this 10 one is -- the reason we're having this one -- and a lot of 11 times the reason we have a particular field day or something 12 in an area has to do with facilities, or a group of -- in 13 this case, a group of landowners that have been working on a 14 particular rangeland restoration program, and so we're able 15 to go out there and see some of what they've been doing 16 brush management-wise, endangered species-wise, wildlife, 17 and we're able to kind of target it in that area. I mean, 18 that's -- regardless of where it's at, that's where -- I 19 mean, if it's -- the site is what's drawing the people, 20 we're having it there. It's a program that Steve Bauer has 21 had some funding available to where he could go in. They've 22 got some grants out there that they can do some brush work 23 on, and so he said that he had a landowner that had a 24 facility to do it. As far as any other year, next year, I'd 25 like to have a program similar to this every year, and I'd 6-13-05 185 1 like to -- you know, if there's a place in east Kerr County 2 or wherever that has done some work that we could go out and 3 tour and see, I'd be glad to do it. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm sure I can find one 5 for you. 6 MR. WALSTON: Let me know, 'cause a lot of 7 times I'm looking for places, because that's -- that's what 8 we like to see. I know our Hill Country Living 101, the 9 Holekamps -- we've used their facility, their place, toured 10 it several times, because they -- they're such gracious 11 hosts, and the range work that he has done has been helpful. 12 So, that just gives you a little bit of an idea. Of course, 13 you can imagine this time of year we're getting ready to buy 14 projects and getting ready for the 4-H projects for this 15 next year, and we've been putting a lot of miles doing -- 16 trying to get project animals selected for this next year's 17 group of 4-H'ers. So, any questions? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Roy, what is the 19 status of the specialist position? 20 MR. WALSTON: Our F.C.S. position? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 22 MR. WALSTON: Our Family/Consumer Science 23 position, they reannounced it. We have -- seems like every 24 time we reannounce it, we get new applicants. You know, you 25 think you'd get them all applied, but, you know, I go to 6-13-05 186 1 them; I say, "Well, why didn't you apply the first time?" 2 We -- you know, but we've got several new applicants, 3 completely new ones. So I think, you know, we'll go through 4 the process and -- and see what applicants, you know, show 5 up, and then go from there, and let you know what -- what 6 we've got out there. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Super. 8 MR. WALSTON: I'm excited about the ones 9 we've got now. I think it may have been all for the better. 10 So, it's going to -- I think there's -- there's, like I say, 11 a completely new group, and hopefully we'll know something 12 next month or so. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Fantastic. Thank you. 14 MR. WALSTON: Thank y'all. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else for Mr. Walston? 16 Thank you, sir. 17 MR. WALSTON: Appreciate it. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Appreciate you being here 19 today. 20 MR. WALSTON: Uh-huh. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Environmental Health. Miguel? 22 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, sir. Good afternoon. I 23 got a few reports by precinct, because at the end of one of 24 the reports, it's sorted by precinct. The rest of the 25 report's all the same. Okay. First thing I'd like to talk 6-13-05 187 1 about is the budget. I think we're okay; we're on track on 2 the budget. The only item that we're running out a little 3 bit is on the postage, so we -- we're mailing a lot of 4 letters, so I'd like to request in the future, probably next 5 Commissioners Court, a budget amendment for postage out of a 6 couple places; we have some extra money there that we can 7 use. Also would like to put a little bit more money in the 8 lab, and I think you have that in your packets there. It's 9 just, you know, information. But other than that, the 10 budget's going okay. I don't see any special needs or 11 special requirements on it. The first page that you might 12 have in your report is the organizational chart for the 13 department. That's basically how we're running it right 14 now. We created a -- a position last year; it's a part-time 15 position in Solid Waste, and we're hoping to get that as a 16 full-time this year -- or next budget. That's basically the 17 way we've been running. Any questions on that one? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Your department now 19 is six people? 20 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, sir, it's six including 21 myself. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pardon? 23 MR. ARREOLA: Six including me. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Including yourself? 25 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, sir. 6-13-05 188 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Two of them 2 part-time. 3 MR. ARREOLA: Two of them are part-times. 4 Okay. We did the job evaluation for all the employees. 5 Everything looks good; they're doing what they're supposed 6 to. I just have one question on one of them, the O.S.S.F. 7 inspector. When that was hired, I think that the name of 8 the -- of the position name, it's a little different than 9 what they're doing. It was called the administrative clerk, 10 and actually it's an O.S.S.F. inspector. The job 11 description I have for them is O.S.S.F. inspector, and the 12 job evaluation is based on that. And that's a conflict, if 13 we need to change that to inspector. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You have two inspectors 15 or one inspector? 16 MR. ARREOLA: I do inspections, too. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So you have an inspector, 18 so the one that you list as O.S.S.F. -- 19 MR. ARREOLA: O.S.S.F. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- inspector is actually 21 listed as a clerk? 22 MR. ARREOLA: Yes. It's called 23 administrative clerk. I can give you copies of how it is in 24 there. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it -- I mean -- 6-13-05 189 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: This is the person 2 that, when we set up this and brought some people over, we 3 said are you willing to -- can you learn to -- 4 MR. ARREOLA: Yes. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do both. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Do both. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Cross-train. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think that's what 9 it is. 10 MR. ARREOLA: And that's the only one that 11 the job evaluation hasn't been done. I have it done, but it 12 wasn't signed yet, 'cause I want to get that clear, if we 13 need to change it or we can leave it the way it is. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, y'all confused 15 me a little bit, which is easy to do this time of the day. 16 I'm -- I think that person needs to be identified properly. 17 If that person's an inspector, and we don't have inspectors 18 in our makeup, we need to create an inspector. But if we're 19 leaving that person as an inspector-slash-clerk, I mean, 20 I -- I don't -- I'm not real firm on that, then. But if 21 this person is an inspector, we need to have a line -- 22 Inspector line. 23 MR. ARREOLA: I'm going to give you a copy of 24 what it is on the Treasurer's format, how they have it. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, you'd think that 6-13-05 190 1 the -- have you talked with the personnel director? The 2 county -- 3 MR. ARREOLA: I haven't had a chance. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: She's next door. 5 MR. ARREOLA: Yeah, but she wasn't there that 6 day, and I just found out about this last week. I didn't 7 know -- we didn't have access to those files at the 8 beginning. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The title -- the 10 title ought to reflect the job duties, certainly. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, absolutely. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: But just in that 13 regard, we'll have an opportunity to talk about this more in 14 budget proceedings. 15 MR. ARREOLA: And -- 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We started off with 17 three and a half people -- 18 MR. ARREOLA: Yes. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- two years ago, 20 and now we've got the equivalent full-time of six. 21 MR. ARREOLA: Five full-time. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Five. Equivalent 23 full-time of five. That's a lot of growth. 24 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, sir. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's something we 6-13-05 191 1 need to talk about in budget time. We're kind of going the 2 wrong direction from what we're hoping for and expecting. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, you think we ought 4 to address this during the budget process, huh? Is that -- 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think so. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do too. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we need to change 8 it, but budget process is when we need to do it. 9 MR. ARREOLA: Okay. Hold the job evaluation 10 until we get it cleared? Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I don't know how 12 you do that, 'cause the job evaluation -- 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not the evaluation, 14 no. 15 MR. ARREOLA: In the next page of that -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I wouldn't hold the 17 job evaluation if I were you. But -- 18 MR. ARREOLA: Okay. Even though it shows to 19 be a different title? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The title is -- the pay 21 and the grade stay the same. Same step and grade, I think. 22 MR. ARREOLA: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's listed right now as 24 O.S.S.F. Administrator/Field Representative. Field 25 representative, to me, is the same as inspector. 6-13-05 192 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure. 2 MR. ARREOLA: Is this -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But if you want to change 4 responsibilities and change step and grade, that will be 5 done, you know, during the -- 6 MR. ARREOLA: No. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're not? I just think 8 we need to maybe clean up the job title. 9 MR. ARREOLA: Change the job title, that's 10 all. Okay, the next one you have in there is basically the 11 activity on O.S.S.F. on the septic systems each quarter; 12 it's by the quarter. We have just the -- the income revenue 13 in the department, how many applications to construct we 14 have issued, and the number of inspections. Every quarter 15 is going up a little more. We're projecting to have the 16 better quarter -- best quarter of the year this quarter that 17 we're running right now. The information we have there is 18 only for the two months that we have so far in the quarter. 19 Have any questions on that? And the next one is basically 20 the same with all the numbers in there in revenue, how we 21 did last year and how we're doing this year. The last four 22 months is just projected, how we think it's going to go. 23 The little chart, you know, shows we can't really trust what 24 happened last year to happen this year. Last year's was 25 very unpredictable, I guess economy and election time and 6-13-05 193 1 all of that. In our department, it depends a lot on how the 2 economy goes. That's how we grow or don't grow. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Miguel, what's the 4 difference in the red and the green line? 5 MR. ARREOLA: It's one year and the other 6 year. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Which one's which? 8 MR. ARREOLA: The green line is last year, 9 Fiscal Year '04, and the red line is Fiscal Year '05. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Instead of Series 1 12 and 2, that's '04 and '05; would that be correct? 13 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, sir, mm-hmm. Series 1 is 14 '04, Series 2 is '05. The last -- last four months, like I 15 said, is just projected. Last year we went very sharp down, 16 last four months. Any question on that one? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No questions. Move 18 forward. 19 MR. ARREOLA: Move forward, okay. Last part 20 of the report is Solid Waste. The chart that you have in 21 there with the purple and blue is basically what we've been 22 doing in Solid Waste. Number of cases are on top, how many 23 we have closed of those, how many have been closed by 24 citations, how many citations we issued, and the number of 25 cases pending. So, a good number, about 39 percent, have 6-13-05 194 1 been closed with cooperation of the property owners; we 2 didn't have to issue citations, so it's working out pretty 3 good. And the last part is just a Solid Waste report; it's 4 a complete report of all the cases we have open in your 5 precinct. The last one is by precinct, so you can see in 6 your precinct how many cases and what type of cases we 7 handle. We have so far 105 cases this year. We're 8 predicting about 200 for the year. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 10 MR. ARREOLA: Any questions? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are you done? 12 MR. ARREOLA: That's it. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: General question. 14 MR. ARREOLA: Yes? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I hear more and more that 16 the type of septic systems being installed are aerobic. 17 Those are the ones with the little sprinklers, right? 18 MR. ARREOLA: Yes. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Aerobic. And then I hear 20 in the next breath with people that come in that they don't 21 like them, and they really hate the maintenance contracts 22 that go with them. And my -- my response is, we don't tell 23 you what kind of system you have to put in. But -- but who 24 is selling the aerobic systems so much? Why are -- you 25 know, it almost seems that in all the new developments in my 6-13-05 195 1 precinct, they're almost all going in aerobic. And I know a 2 lot of them are building on top of the hills, so that really 3 limits what they can do, but is it the -- are the installers 4 just pushing it so they can get this monthly check after the 5 fact? Or -- I mean, it just seems to me that there's a -- 6 that the consumers are not being totally informed, and I 7 think it's by the installers, 'cause I don't think it's our 8 job to -- you know, we approve whatever they submit, or -- 9 you know. Anyway, where is that problem, in your opinion? 10 Or do you think aerobics aren't a problem? 11 MR. ARREOLA: Actually, it's going down. It 12 used to be more. And, yeah, the education of the public is 13 key. We've been trying to give the homeowner all their 14 options based on the -- we have a special chart we carry 15 with us all the time. It shows all the type of systems that 16 you have available, but that depends on the site. If you 17 don't have what you need, you can't have conventional. Now, 18 there's second options that sometimes are very expensive. 19 And you don't have to have an aerobic, but you have to spend 20 extra money than what it will cost you for an aerobic. So, 21 basically, the homeowners' position, we tell them all the 22 time, "Come to our office; we'll give you all the 23 information." If they want to take the time to come over, 24 we'll tell them. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How often -- or most of 6-13-05 196 1 the time, I'd say average site, do you deal with the 2 homeowner or the installer? 3 MR. ARREOLA: Most of the time, it's the 4 installer. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Installer? 6 MR. ARREOLA: Mm-hmm. About 80, 75 percent 7 is installer. The homeowner needs to come to the office, 8 'cause they need to sign some paperwork, but sometimes they 9 already have in mind what they want to do. They already 10 spoke with the installer and they know what they want to do, 11 but we give them the options all the time, and there's 12 options there. The number of aerobics is going down. We 13 don't have as many as we used to. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Good. See if you can 15 keep that trend going. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If you find somebody 17 that would like to have their very own aerobic, I have one 18 that I'd be willing to give up. That thing -- I have three 19 grandkids and a hunting dog that's not near as expensive as 20 that thing is. My lord. 21 MR. ARREOLA: Yeah, they're expensive. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 160 bucks just for a 23 guy to come by and look at it three times a year. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Really? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. State-mandated. 6-13-05 197 1 MR. ARREOLA: There is options. You can 2 always have the soil rechecked. In the past -- the rule 3 changed in 2001. Before then, it was different criteria, so 4 if you -- if it was installed before 2001, you might want to 5 have it reevaluated, and there's a chance that you can have 6 a different system. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Who makes the determination of 8 what type or types of systems can be put on a particular 9 site? 10 MR. ARREOLA: It's a person licensed by the 11 state that's called a site evaluator. It's licensed by 12 T.C.E.Q., and their responsibility is to go there and look 13 at everything in the site; the soil, the groundwater, 14 drainage, everything, and they determine what's the best 15 system for that location. They're the ones who say that's 16 it. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: You can put in this and this 18 type, but not a -- not these three other types? 19 MR. ARREOLA: Correct, depending on the site. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: And are those individuals -- 21 do you have any of those individuals in your office? 22 MR. ARREOLA: I am one. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: You are one of them? 24 MR. ARREOLA: Actually, I'm the only one. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. What about private 6-13-05 198 1 contractors? Are there private contractors available to -- 2 that carry that certification? 3 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, sir. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: And do you have some of those 5 locally? 6 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, sir. Yeah, we have a full 7 list in the office. I am a site evaluator, but I do not do 8 any determinations. I just basically inspect their job; 9 that's what I do. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Is site evaluator the 11 same as the -- what do you call them, designers? 12 MR. ARREOLA: No. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. That's a totally 14 separate designation? 15 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, sir. We have three 16 categories; there are designers, installers, and site 17 evaluators. There's three different ones. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are -- most private 19 companies that do installations, do they have all three? 20 MR. ARREOLA: The big companies do. You 21 know, when it's just an installer doing business as an 22 installer only, that's all they have, but the big companies 23 do have the three normally. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Are there any folks that carry 25 that credential by virtue of some other licensing that they 6-13-05 199 1 have; for example, the professional engineer? 2 MR. ARREOLA: Mm-hmm. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that individual given the 4 same status as a site evaluator? 5 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, sir. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: So if they -- a professional 7 engineer brings a system to you, that's the same as an 8 approval for that site evaluation, in your opinion? 9 MR. ARREOLA: Correct, yeah. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 11 MR. ARREOLA: Engineers are licensed by the 12 state to do that job with special certification because 13 they're engineers. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Are there any others that 15 carry that exemption? 16 MR. ARREOLA: Engineers or site evaluators 17 only. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What -- quick question; I 20 know we're running late today. Since you're a site 21 evaluator, what if you disagree with what the site evaluator 22 says? I mean, do you -- 23 MR. ARREOLA: We have done, yes. We just 24 tell them we don't agree, and if they don't agree with us, 25 then the State comes up as the next -- they can also bring 6-13-05 200 1 it to your attention. You know, that's a variance, or as 2 a -- if they think I'm not doing what I'm supposed to. But 3 normally, the state rule says if you don't agree, they have 4 to provide proof of us being wrong and bring it to the 5 State. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And one last question. 7 How -- I'm trying to figure out if the public is happy with 8 your job performance, in your opinion, from what you can 9 tell. I mean, how many complaints do you receive, or is it 10 up, down, and same? Or do you receive -- or do they not 11 complain to you, and just grumble out in the public? 12 MR. ARREOLA: No, I think the public is very 13 receptive, and they're happy with what we're doing. They 14 have been far more informed of what we do and why we do it. 15 Sometimes the installers don't like one position or two, and 16 they'll bring it to my attention and we'll try to work it 17 out. So, I think right now the atmosphere is real good. 18 Everybody's happy. I don't have any complaints, unless you 19 have some. We have received complaints to investigate, but 20 not against us. I guess, violations of the Health and 21 Safety Code. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me see if I understand 23 this correctly. 24 MR. ARREOLA: Mm-hmm. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: If a -- if a licensed site 6-13-05 201 1 evaluator, or someone who's exempt in that status, approves 2 a given site for a given type of system, brings it to you 3 for a permit -- 4 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, sir. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: -- you have the ability to 6 veto that? 7 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, sir. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I guess I'm having a hard time 9 figuring out why you have these guys anyway. Why not just 10 let you do it? 11 MR. ARREOLA: State rule. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. And if you say, "Well, 13 I disagree; I don't think this site is appropriate for the 14 type of system," then it -- it goes up to the state level? 15 MR. ARREOLA: It could -- yes. They could 16 bring it here to you, 'cause you are the authorized agent. 17 They can bring it to your attention. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 19 MR. ARREOLA: And if the Court wants to take 20 a position of overriding our decision, then that's fine. Or 21 we can go straight to the State and just, you know, bring 22 the evidence. The State has some specialized people in 23 that, and they help us a lot. Every time we have a question 24 or we're not sure, or -- they mediate a lot for us. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the natural place to 6-13-05 202 1 go, is to the T.C.E.Q. people, isn't it? 2 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, that's normally what we 3 do. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not us. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know what good 7 it would do to bring it in here. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Commissioner, I want 9 to elaborate a little bit on your question about the -- the 10 public's perception of the performance of O.S.S.F. I've got 11 a different view than Miguel has, and Miguel and I have 12 exchanged e-mails on this and have met to talk about it. 13 And to put that in proper perspective, I kind of reviewed 14 how we got from where we were to where we are. Three or 15 four years ago, there was a lot of concern about the way 16 O.S.S.F. was being administered. A lot of people were 17 making a lot of noise and demanding change. And the concern 18 did not deal with the rules, it dealt with how the rules 19 were being administered. The most common thing we heard in 20 Commissioners Court and over at the U.G.R.A. and other 21 public forums was that the administrators were heavy-handed. 22 That was kind of a code word for administrators that were 23 not particularly friendly to the users, and maybe sometimes 24 hostile. And one of the -- there was a number of changes 25 made because of those concerns and their persistence, and 6-13-05 203 1 one of the things that was probably a direct result of that 2 was that the O.S.S.F. administration came back to Kerr 3 County. 4 And at the time we brought it back, we had 5 concerns -- and Commissioner Letz and I were heavily 6 involved with that. We had concerns that it -- there was 7 sort of a dilemma. The people who were qualified to perform 8 those kinds of jobs were part of the -- the heavy-handed 9 administration. So, in discussions in this court and 10 elsewhere, we talked about the need to make -- bring about a 11 change; that we wouldn't administer a heavy-handed program. 12 And we got off to a good start. In fact, Miguel and myself 13 and quite a number of interested people met once to talk 14 about some of the issues and decided on some ways to deal 15 with that to bring about improvement. Now what people are 16 telling me -- and there are some of them in my precinct, but 17 there's some of them in your precinct also -- is that it 18 went pretty well for a year, and now it's reverted back to 19 the old heavy-handed style that's not user-friendly, that's 20 sometimes hostile and sometimes unreasonable. So, I've got 21 a great concern about that performance, and if we converted 22 back to the old style, I'm not going to be -- I'm not going 23 to be satisfied with that. 24 MR. ARREOLA: Me neither. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There's another 6-13-05 204 1 corollary issue, and I called this to Miguel's attention the 2 other day. It has to do with public perception of our 3 licensed people's involvement with burning. That relates to 4 Solid Waste. Miguel and I talked this out. It was -- the 5 names are not important, but we talked about this one 6 incident, and the bottom line is, Miguel and his other Solid 7 Waste investigator flipped a U and came back and looked at a 8 fire -- went by it and saw it, and came back and 9 investigated a burn. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: "Flipped a U"? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Turned around. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So -- 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Middle of the street. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've heard of flipping 15 the bird, but never a U. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: U-turn. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The burn was going on 19 in the precinct, which the burn ban was suspended, so that 20 was fine. And when Miguel and his counterpart confronted 21 the individual, wanted to know what they were doing in 22 effect and so forth, bottom line was, the burn was quite 23 legal and they had every right and purpose to be burning. 24 And after talking with Miguel, I could see where he and his 25 counterpart had a -- had a possible concern and came back to 6-13-05 205 1 satisfy themselves that there wasn't a deeper issue in terms 2 of burning; i.e., tires, pieces of pipe -- 3 MR. ARREOLA: Plastics. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- whatever else that 5 might put carcinogens in the air. Okay, that's kind of the 6 bottom line. And I guess it gets to the point you just 7 made. I want you, in the future when you do this, not only 8 to identify yourself as to who you are and what you are and 9 why you're there, but help them out. You're only there 10 to -- you're there just to make certain that there's no 11 carcinogens, no illegal burning going on. Wish them well, 12 introduce yourself, give them your card, see if you can be 13 of service to them; "Here's my number. You call me." 14 Because, you know, none of us want to get those kind of 15 calls from somebody who can't understand whether or not it's 16 heavy-handed, knowing full well that they were doing what 17 they were doing legally, and why two County agents would 18 show up, guns a-blazing, if you will, and wondering what the 19 hell's going on. So, Miguel took it to heart, and I'm sure 20 he'll correct that. 21 MR. ARREOLA: Yeah. That is -- that's a 22 valid concern. What I would like the Court -- or ask the 23 Court is, when you get a type of compliant or information, 24 if you don't mind getting our side too, 'cause sometimes 25 people do say not really what happened. In that particular 6-13-05 206 1 case, you know, I was there, so I know what really was said 2 and everything. Yeah, we failed to give him our card, 3 because it was nothing -- it was no problems to investigate. 4 We didn't need to go back; he didn't need to do anything 5 with us, so we just told him, "We're here to check you're 6 safe and that the fire is not going to get out of control 7 and everything is okay. You have a good day." That -- we 8 thought we did okay. We can do better. Yes, we can do 9 better. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's all perception. 11 Because, as I told you, by the time I got the story, they 12 had been threatened. 13 MR. ARREOLA: Yes -- yeah. So, we -- you 14 might get some of that also on O.S.S.F. There's rules that 15 we have to go by, and some people don't like to go by those 16 rules. Some people want to have a certain type of system no 17 matter what, and if they can't, well, they're going to blame 18 it on somebody, and sometimes it's going to be us. So, 19 we're doing the best we can. And we have proof that what we 20 do is correct. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't think you're 22 doing the best you can, and if you think you're doing the 23 best you can, you're not going to do better. And there's a 24 lot of reasons why people whose livelihood is involved in 25 this are not going to step forward and be identified and 6-13-05 207 1 make complaints, and the reason they're not is they were 2 trained that way. They learned that if they complained, 3 they were punished. It got worse, not better. But my 4 point, Miguel, is that if you're, quote, just doing your 5 job, and there's no room for improvement -- well, I don't 6 know about other Commissioners, but that's not going to 7 satisfy me. 8 MR. ARREOLA: There is room for improvement. 9 There is room. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 11 MR. ARREOLA: We're doing it, I think, right. 12 There's -- and we can prove the evidence. We can show you 13 the evidence of what we're doing. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- you know, I 15 brought this up, and I haven't received any complaints. I 16 have -- I shouldn't say -- the complaints I received when I 17 started questioning it have been that basically the 18 installers didn't do it right, and Miguel said, "No, it's 19 not going to happen." Or the individual hired a 20 fly-by-night -- and there are some left in that industry -- 21 individual to do it the cheapest possible way rather than go 22 with one of the better installers in town, and, you know, 23 he's objecting to what they're getting now. So, I mean, the 24 complaints I have haven't been -- have been more, you know, 25 information to him, but I think what you're hearing is 6-13-05 208 1 that -- the same, I think, speech we tend to give every 2 department; customer service is critical to this Court. 3 MR. ARREOLA: We believe that. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We -- you know, we 5 demand, I think, that every department be, you know, the 6 highest possible level of customer service and politeness 7 and courtesy, because a lot of what we deal with people 8 don't like, so we might as well at least do it nicely. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's exactly right. 10 I have a quick question about your list of nuisance 11 abatements. 12 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, sir? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I notice there are a 14 few of them where the location wasn't put down, left blank. 15 Is there a reason for that? 16 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, sir. It's -- there's a 17 computer program or computer workbook that we created 18 in-house, and we're still having glitches in there. The 19 location didn't come in from the database to feed this 20 report. We can -- we can get you those. If you're 21 interested in knowing exactly where they were, we can tell 22 you. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, the location 24 didn't come in. How did you know it was in my precinct? 25 MR. ARREOLA: Because it's in your precinct. 6-13-05 209 1 It just didn't come from the -- from the database. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I like the report. 3 MR. ARREOLA: Just -- also, to just make a 4 final comment, we are developing a computer program or 5 computer system for the department. It was also created 6 in-house. We started this January, and I would like to show 7 the Court how it works, but it's a little lengthy, so I 8 don't know if we can set up a workshop. And I'd like to go 9 also through those illegal burning rules and what's the 10 criteria we use on those and the inspections we do on 11 septics. That way, the Court will be informed what we have 12 to do, what we're supposed to do by the State, and whenever 13 someone comes and asks you why we did this, you'll be 14 informed. So, I think it's very good for you to be aware of 15 what we're supposed to do, and then you can judge if we do 16 it right or wrong. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- you might visit 18 with Truby. There's a workshop set up for July 12th 19 already, and you might see -- I don't know how long that 20 workshop's going to take, but maybe the two can be done on 21 the same day. That's a floodplain workshop. 22 MR. ARREOLA: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And these two are kind 24 of -- somewhat related. 25 MR. ARREOLA: Sounds good. I'll get with 6-13-05 210 1 her. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else for Miguel? 3 Thank you. 4 MR. ARREOLA: Thank you. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Take a break. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Yeah, me too. 7 But we don't have time, do we? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I think we can roll out of 9 here. You okay for now? Juvenile Detention. Poquito? 10 (Commissioner Nicholson left the courtroom.) 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He's just going to go 12 get the baseball score. Tommy, you should be doing that. 13 You have an interest in this too, you know. 14 MR. TOMLINSON: What? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Bears playing in the 16 super-regional. 17 MR. TOMLINSON: Oh, I could care less. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That was the wrong 19 thing to say, wasn't it? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's sacrilege. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Thou shall not speak ill of 22 baseball. Thank you, Ms. Harris. We appreciate you being 23 here today. 24 MS. HARRIS: No problem. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll be happy to take the 6-13-05 211 1 next two minutes to receive your report. 2 MS. HARRIS: Okay, I will do it. 3 (Discussion off the record.) 4 MS. HARRIS: Yes, sir, I'll go through this 5 quickly. You have a copy of my usual reports. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Go ahead, please. I'm 7 a quiet little mouse here. 8 MS. HARRIS: Well, our revenues were up, as 9 they have been every month since we started keeping this in 10 January, and so our revenues have increased. Our 11 expenditures decreased for the month of May, which is a good 12 thing, at approximately -- we decreased expenditures about 13 $29,000. We had four intakes in May, and this time of year, 14 to have that many intakes, that's unusual for this time of 15 year. So, we had four intakes. We picked up -- 16 JUDGE TINLEY: When you say "intake," you're 17 talking about post? 18 MS. HARRIS: Yes, sir. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 20 MS. HARRIS: Yes, sir. Because pre is every 21 day. We picked up a new county, Montague County, so they 22 sent us a kid. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Montague? 24 MS. HARRIS: Montague County, yeah. You 25 would be surprised how many people call it "Mon-ta-gue," but 6-13-05 212 1 it's "Mon-tague." 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is it really? 3 MS. HARRIS: It's Montague. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I made that mistake one time 5 in front of a native; got corrected quickly. 6 MS. HARRIS: And if you didn't know where 7 that is, that's Bowie, north of Decatur. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 9 MS. HARRIS: So, you only had one discharge 10 in May. We've got three pending intakes, and they -- all 11 three of those kids should be here towards the end of this 12 week, 'cause when I wrote this, court dates were pending. 13 That's been done, so we should have another Potter County, 14 Henderson County, and Calhoun. Calhoun's another new county 15 that we've picked up. Pending discharges for this month, we 16 don't see -- we're not graduating any long-term kids this 17 month. Average population for May was 30. We're exceeding 18 that this month so far. Our average population for this 19 month is 34. The average post was 19. Average pre, we had 20 11. And I put your Kerr County statistics on there; we have 21 five long-term post kids from Kerr County, and we have 22 averaged eight pre Kerr County kids. The construction 23 issues on the annex -- 24 (Commissioner Nicholson returned.) 25 MS. HARRIS: What's the score? 6-13-05 213 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: 5-1. It's over. 2 MS. HARRIS: The lift station, we talked 3 about this morning. The drainage issue, a DRG 4 representative -- I'm not sure who the other two guys were, 5 but they were supposed to be drainage engineering experts -- 6 came out on June the 2nd. Everybody stood around and looked 7 at it again and came up with some more possible solutions 8 and left. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Still pointing 10 fingers at each other? 11 MS. HARRIS: And nobody can seem to agree on 12 what's the best way to do it. And I won't let them put 13 anything on top of the ground, because we have to weedeat 14 and mow back there. So, they're wanting to just put 15 something shoddy and cheap on top of the ground, and I'm 16 saying no, 'cause we have to -- we have to work around that, 17 and it doesn't look good. So, anyway... A.D.A. parking 18 lot, DRG -- STR is saying that the cost of asphalt's going 19 up every day, and if this continues to be delayed -- and 20 STR's pointing their fingers at DRG. The price of asphalt's 21 going to get so high they're not going to be able to afford 22 to fix it. And the institutional furniture that was never 23 delivered to the facility, nobody knows where the invoices 24 are. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Nobody knows where 6-13-05 214 1 the invoices are? 2 MS. HARRIS: That's correct, sir. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which would suggest 4 that maybe we didn't pay for it? Or we did pay for it? 5 MS. HARRIS: We did. We did, because there 6 is one very broad invoice that says furniture/institutional 7 furniture, and there was a partial payment of $25,000. But 8 there's no itemized invoice to show exactly what 9 institutional furniture was ordered, and it was supposed to 10 have arrived at the facility. One explanation from DRG was, 11 well, it was back-ordered. Institutional furniture was 12 back-ordered. Well, okay. Is it still back-ordered? No. 13 Where is it? Well, we thought we delivered it. No, you 14 didn't; it's not here. So, the institutional furniture is 15 still an issue. There is no institutional furniture in that 16 new building. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: These are obviously 18 items that you were able to live without. 19 MS. HARRIS: Yes, since there's no kids over 20 there. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Anyway, we can get 22 the money back and apply it somewhere else. Mr. County 23 Attorney? 24 MR. EMERSON: In two weeks it will come up in 25 the litigation issues. That's -- that's all I know to say. 6-13-05 215 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 2 MS. HARRIS: We had a malfunction in the 3 control panel in the old building. It was showing -- all 4 the lights came on. It was showing all the doors not 5 secure, and plus we'd lost our ability to audio monitor in 6 the dorms. That's not a good thing. So, we had C.C. Group 7 -- C.C.C. Group come out, because it was my understanding 8 that that was who worked on the control panel before in the 9 old building, plus they were the ones that were contracted 10 to put the control panel in the new building. They came out 11 and said that we needed to replace the amplifier. It was 12 the original amplifier that has been there since 1995. So, 13 they replaced the amplifier at an approximate cost of about 14 -- it was about $900 plus the labor, and $109 for the 15 speaker and the microphone. Well, the gentleman that came 16 out to do these repairs for C.C.C. Group indicated that 17 there was another problem with the panel that C.C.C. Group 18 could not address, but he said an independent repairman 19 could. I chose not to go that route. I chose to get 20 somebody locally to come and assess the remaining problems 21 in there, to come see what that would cost to fix. So, at 22 that point in time, this shorting out of the microphone, I'm 23 having a local company come look at that, if at all 24 possible. And we just -- that came up Thursday, so -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is the -- I'm not 6-13-05 216 1 familiar at all with that system out there, so I probably 2 don't want to go into too much detail with my question. Is 3 that a component we bought, like -- is it a company that put 4 in that whole control panel? Or is it a hodgepodge of 5 separate things put together? 6 MS. HARRIS: I can't answer that, 7 Commissioner Letz, because that was -- it was put in there 8 in 1995 when the building was original -- was originally 9 built. I don't know if it was one complete component, or if 10 it was a hodgepodge. I don't know that. Can't answer that 11 question. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It seems -- I mean, if 13 it's a hodgepodge, you probably -- what you're doing sounds 14 right, but if it's one item, we need to find an authorized 15 dealer for that item. 16 MS. HARRIS: Correct. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 18 MS. HARRIS: Population concerns. We have 14 19 male long-term post-adjudication, so that now requires two 20 dorms, so we've had to -- and I broke it down. Our 21 post-adjudication males are in Dorm 4 and 5. I have to 22 reserve one dorm for preadjudicated males; that's Dorm 3. 23 Which leaves Dorm 2 only for females. And, unfortunately, 24 it's not the ideal, but it is compliant with T.J.P.C., as 25 long as I keep separate staff members addressing -- separate 6-13-05 217 1 staff members taking care of each separate group, the pre 2 girls and the post girls. Right now, we have no empty beds 3 on the girls -- on the females, because I have eight 4 long-term girls, and as of this morning, I had four pre 5 girls. So, I'm just letting you know, you know, that since 6 our population -- our numbers are increasing, there is a 7 concern about if we get any more long-term girls, or even if 8 we even get any more pre girls, it's a matter of where to 9 put them, because three of the dorms have boys in them. So, 10 I just want to make you aware of that. Also, the facility 11 is licensed, you know, for the substance abuse beds. We 12 licensed 18 beds. 16 of those are full, and one of these 13 new kids that's coming in this week is a substance abuse 14 kid, so we're rapidly approaching maxing out our number of 15 substance abuse beds that we're licensed for. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So we have 19 posts right 17 there? 18 MS. HARRIS: We have 22 posts. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, I thought you were 20 at 19. But, anyway -- so -- but all of -- six of them, 21 then, are in the drug program? 22 MS. HARRIS: Yes. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 24 MS. HARRIS: Yes. We have three in the sex 25 offender program. Two of these new kids that are coming in 6-13-05 218 1 are sex offender, so that'll make five, and then the other 2 one or two is just general corrections. Okay, I just told 3 you about that. We have one pending El Paso resident, so I 4 guess we'll find out tomorrow if I'm going to be able to 5 accept him or not. Personnel issues, we put the female 6 J.D.O.'s on 12-hour shifts. I believe I told you the last 7 time I was up here that we were going to do that. Well, we 8 did. That reduces the number of female J.D.O.'s that I have 9 to have to be in ratio by one. As it so happened, we 10 terminated one of the clerical -- the person that was in a 11 clerical position. The one female, after we went to 12-hour 12 shifts, that could not work 12-hour shifts because she has a 13 new baby, we offered her the clerical position, and she took 14 it, so we filled that position within. The other clerical 15 position will become vacated probably the end of this month, 16 and that's due to some personal family health issues in her 17 family. She is training the one clerical -- the new clerk 18 person; she is training her to handle payroll and all the 19 human resources for us to be able to do that temporarily for 20 right now until next fiscal year. And if things work out, 21 we may not even have to replace that person in October; we 22 might can even wait a little longer than that. 23 I terminated two male J.D.O. full-time 24 positions, so that created two full-time slots, and when I 25 terminated those two gentlemen, that created us -- that 6-13-05 219 1 caused us to be out of ratio. If I had not put my shift 2 supervisors in -- my shift supervisors have been working on 3 their days off and beyond their hours, and even some of the 4 other full-time remaining male J.D.O.'s have been working on 5 their days off to fill this gap until we can get people 6 interviewed, hired, and trained to fill these two full-time 7 position. So, I'm forewarning you or foretelling you, we 8 reduced our comp time from -- from April to May 9 significantly. We reduced the comp time, but I'm telling 10 you, because of this shortage of male J.D.O.'s, that there's 11 going to be some comp time. Hopefully I can get them to 12 take the time before we have to pay them and it won't be so 13 bad. The community garden status, Adult Probation continues 14 to work on clearing that whenever it's not raining. They're 15 -- they're chipping the brush that was pushed, and so we're 16 still progressing with that. Our population today is 33; 22 17 and 11, respectively. And that's all I have, unless you 18 have any questions. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Any questions for Ms. Harris? 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No, I've got one. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Summer school. 25 MS. HARRIS: Started summer school today, 6-13-05 220 1 except for the expelled. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Why didn't we start the 3 expelled? 4 MS. HARRIS: One of them didn't show up, and 5 the other one is at some kind of camp. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Without having 7 really any facts, it just -- I sense that you have a higher 8 turnover rate than you would expect among employees. In 9 your experience, is it -- is the turnover rate here higher 10 than it is in other facilities, and what's the cause of 11 that? 12 MS. HARRIS: In two sentences, two reasons. 13 The previous -- the pay scale is one of the reasons. And -- 14 and finding people that really want to help kids, and 15 finding people that don't have their own agendas to take it 16 out on kids, and finding people that can follow standards 17 and rules and not make up their own, and finding people that 18 can just do the job -- that can be taught to do the job. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You're shaking your 20 head, Sheriff. That's been kind of your experience with 21 adults? 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: She's exactly right. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You pay more money, 24 you find better people. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's true. And her -- 6-13-05 221 1 you know, I know her salary scale for -- for her J.D.O.'s is 2 terrible. This Court did a lot for the salary scale for the 3 adult detention officers and that. As you can tell, in the 4 last few years, yes, we do still have openings, 'cause 5 people use jails or J.D.O.'s as a stepping stone a lot of 6 times to get farther up in the law enforcement -- becoming 7 an officer or deputy or whatever. But you have slowed down 8 the adult detention facility turnover ratio by 100 percent, 9 just about, because of the pay scale. She's still having to 10 fight the pay scale and all the rest of that, which would be 11 a nightmare, kind of like what we had years ago. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thank you. 14 MS. HARRIS: Mm-hmm. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Are we ready to get 17 down and pay the bills? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I am. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move we pay the 21 bills. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion and second that we pay 24 the bills. Any question or discussion? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, I have a 6-13-05 222 1 question. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 426, County Court, 4 Claudio Castillo, $500 for probable cause hearings. 5 Somebody tell me what's that's all about. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Would you take us to 7 the right page, please? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 2. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Top line. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: They get paid on a per-case 13 basis as a special master in those cases, and they're 14 charged as court costs. That way, whoever the originating 15 county is gets to pay that fee. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is mental health 17 hearings? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, that is mental health. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: That's mental health. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, that's all I 22 have. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or 24 comments? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 25 your right hand. 6-13-05 223 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 5 Budget Amendment Request Number 1. 6 MR. TOMLINSON: Number -- excuse me -- Number 7 1 is for the 216th District Court. The request is to 8 transfer $4,138.75 from Special Trials to Court Transcripts. 9 Along with that, I need a hand check for $4,138.75 payable 10 to Cindy Snider. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Payable to who? 12 MR. TOMLINSON: Cindy Snider. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move to approve the 14 amendment and the hand check. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 17 approval of Budget Amendment Request Number 1 and a hand 18 check to Cindy Snider for $4,138.75. Any question or 19 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 20 your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 25 Budget Amendment Request Number 2. 6-13-05 224 1 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 2 is for the County 2 Jail. The Sheriff requested a transfer of $451.73 from 3 Nurses to Office Supplies. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Any 7 question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify 8 by raising your right hand. 9 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Budget 13 Amendment Request Number 3. 14 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 3 is for J.P. Precinct 15 4 and the Tax Collector. We have a need to transfer $1,000 16 from Group Insurance out of the Tax Collector's' budget into 17 Office Rent in J.P. 4. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move to approve -- 19 MR. TOMLINSON: Along with that, I need a 20 hand check for $250 payable to James Priour. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move to approve the 22 amendment and the hand check. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 25 approval of Budget Amendment Request Number 3 and hand check 6-13-05 225 1 to James Priour in the sum of $250. Any question or 2 comment? 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: One question. I 4 suppose this new contract means that we will have sufficient 5 funds in the budget for this year's rent payments? 6 MR. TOMLINSON: That's what the $1,000 is 7 for. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: For the remainder of 9 the year? 10 MR. TOMLINSON: For the remainder of the 11 year, yes. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: June, July, August, September. 14 Any questions or discussion? All in favor of the motion, 15 signify by raising your right hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Budget 20 Amendment Request Number 4. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 4 is for the Juvenile 22 Detention Facility. The request is to transfer $4,415, from 23 Contract Services to Professional Services, and this is for 24 the detention facility's share of the audit to Pressler 25 Thompson and Company. 6-13-05 226 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Any 4 question or discussion? Mr. Auditor, that account shows to 5 be overdrawn over $7,000; is that correct? 6 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. There was -- I don't -- 7 I don't remember what we expended out of it prior to this, 8 but I think it had something to do with the bill from the 9 firm -- the attorneys in Austin. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Legal firm -- legal? 11 MR. TOMLINSON: Legal fees. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Bickerstaff? 13 MR. TOMLINSON: Bickerstaff. That's it, 14 yeah. I think that firm that -- or Allison Bass. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Allison Bass. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Allison Bass, yeah. 17 MR. TOMLINSON: I think there was an $8,000 18 bill, or something close to that, that we paid probably 19 three or four months ago. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I remember it. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any other questions or 22 comments? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You pay -- we paid Jim 24 Allison out of the professional services, so that depleted 25 the line, and now we need some professional services. 6-13-05 227 1 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: To pay Pressler Thompson. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions? 6 Comments? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 7 your right hand. 8 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 10 (No response.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Budget 12 Amendment Request 5. 13 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. Number 5 is for 14 Indigent Health Care. I'm requesting a transfer of $688.83 15 from the Administrative line item to the Third-Party 16 Administrator line item. This -- this is to satisfy 17 payments to VeriClaims, Inc., who is our third-party 18 administrator. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. We just 21 underbudgeted it? Or is there extra things going on that's 22 not normal? 23 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, we're -- we're on -- as 24 far as the funds that are expended for indigent health care, 25 we're on the state year, as far as -- as whether or not 6-13-05 228 1 we -- we have -- we have the ability to claim -- to make 2 claims to the state. So, this -- this firm is also on the 3 state year, so we -- at the beginning of the year, we had 4 some unpaid claims that they processed, so we pay them -- 5 their contract -- under their contract, we pay them 4 and a 6 half percent of all the eligible claims that -- that we -- 7 that we pay. So, it's -- because we had some holdover 8 claims, those -- that 4 and a half percent got attached to 9 those claims. So, this firm is at the point that we're -- 10 we're over budget, so we still have another month to go, two 11 months to go, so we probably have -- we'll probably be 12 looking at this again, and we're really close to being 13 overbudget in Indigent Health Care for eligible claims. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Buster, you have to learn 15 not to ask questions on indigent health care. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions, 17 Commissioner Baldwin? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions by any of 20 the other Commissioners? All in favor of the motion, 21 signify by raising your right hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Budget 6-13-05 229 1 Amendment Request Number 6. 2 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. Number 6 is for the -- 3 for the County Jail also. The Sheriff's requested a 4 transfer of $269.04 from the Cooks line item, $100 to 5 Employee Medical Exams and $169.04 to Radio Repairs. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 9 approval of Budget Amendment Request Number 6. Any question 10 or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 11 raising your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Budget 16 Amendment Request Number 7. 17 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. Number 7 is from the 18 198th District Court. The request is to transfer $5 from 19 Special Trials to Books, Publications, and Dues. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 23 approval. Any question or discussion? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What's the 5 bucks 25 for? 6-13-05 230 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A book. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is it for books, or 3 are we paying personal dues? 4 MR. TOMLINSON: It's dues for the State Bar 5 of Texas. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The man ought to pay 7 his own. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Commissioner Letz, 9 does that remind you that back at Exxon, you rounded 10 everything off to the closest million? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You guys are out of 12 water here, I can tell. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or 14 comments? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 15 your right hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Budget 20 Amendment Request 8. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. Number 8 is for the 22 216th District Court. This is also for a transcript. I'm 23 requesting that we transfer $1,982.20 from Special Trials to 24 Court Transcripts. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 6-13-05 231 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 3 approval. Any question or comment? All in favor of the 4 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 9 Budget amendment request 9. 10 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 9 is for the 198th 11 District Court. The request is to transfer $1,085.45 from 12 Special Trials to Conferences. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where was the 14 conference? 15 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, the -- I have -- I have 16 two bills that we've previously paid for the court 17 reporter's conference, one for $860.45, and the other for 18 $225. This left $861 for the Judge's conference, so his 19 request is to reinstate the $2,100 budget. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Does -- I guess my 21 comment is -- I probably shouldn't say anything, but do they 22 just not look at their budget? I mean -- (Laughter.) 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's one way to ask 24 it. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why -- 6-13-05 232 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's diplomatic. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Your first comment may have 3 been the most appropriate one. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I can understand, 5 you know, $100 over or something. I mean, it depends on the 6 hotels you stay at. But, I mean, to miss the mark this 7 far -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, look at how much 9 -- how much do we spend when we go to a conference each? 10 $200? $300? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Something like that. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're talking 1,000 13 here. Where do they go? Nevermind. 14 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, there is -- I guess, to 15 make this more palatable, there is a statute that requires a 16 $15 fee attached to every civil case that is for the purpose 17 of court reporting. I estimate that over the last five or 18 six years, we've probably collected $60,000, so there -- 19 there is non-tax revenues that are to be used for the 20 purpose of court reporting. And so we have never budgeted 21 separately, but I -- I feel like that they're non-tax 22 revenues available for this purpose. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Court reporter, you're talking 24 about? 25 MR. TOMLINSON: For the court reporter part. 6-13-05 233 1 And what happened was that the court reporter needed some 2 hours that they didn't budget for, and that person used the 3 Judge's conference money. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He can still turn 5 around and ask the exact same question, though, if he wanted 6 to. Why? But I sure did not know that, and I apologize for 7 my ugly thoughts. How's that? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's good. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that a motion for approval? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Dadgum right. I 11 thought there was already one on the table, or I'd have 12 jumped on that a long time ago. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 15 approval of Budget Amendment Request Number 9. Any question 16 or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 17 raising your right hand. 18 (Commissioners Baldwin, Williams, and Nicholson voted in favor of the motion.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 20 (Commissioner Letz voted against the motion.) 21 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Do we have any more budget 23 amendments? 24 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Do we have any late bills? 6-13-05 234 1 MR. TOMLINSON: One. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: One late bill? 3 MR. TOMLINSON: We have -- I have one to 4 Xerox Corporation for $230.51. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: 230 what? 6 MR. TOMLINSON: $230.51. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval of late 9 bill. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 12 approval of the late bill payment to Xerox of $230.51. Any 13 question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify 14 by raising your right hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: I have before me monthly 19 reports submitted by the Sheriff, Constable Precinct 1, 20 Justice of the Peace Precinct 2, Justice of the Peace 21 Precinct 4, Justice of the Peace Precinct 1, County Clerk, 22 Justice of the Peace Precinct 3, County Attorney, District 23 Clerk, Kerr County Juvenile Facility, and Environmental 24 Health. Do I hear a motion that these reports be approved 25 as submitted? 6-13-05 235 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Any 4 question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify 5 by raising your right hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Do we 10 have any reports from any of the members of the Court in 11 connection with their liaison or committee assignments? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I do -- I have 13 a comment and a question real quick. We had talked this 14 morning about setting up a workshop on the EMS issue. I 15 wondered if we could do that today, set a date. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think so. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes? Okay. Is next 19 week too late? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm gone for the next 21 two weeks beginning Saturday. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: When do we start our 23 budget process? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Probably week after next. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that, like -- that was 6-13-05 236 1 my -- part of what my question was going to be, workshops. 2 Start scheduling them? Or -- so, the first week -- last 3 week of June? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Last week of June, first week 5 of July. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Looks like our next 7 meeting is Monday, the 27th. Do y'all want to have a 8 workshop in the afternoon, or are you busy or what? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Trying to stay that way all 10 the time. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Trying to stay that 12 way. People are waiting on you down the hall right now. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: They are. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why not do it the day 15 after? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just think we need 17 to do it, get it done as soon as possible. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, we need to move on it. 19 Do you want to try and nail down a date now, or just 20 collectively put your heads together after the meeting? 21 That's fine, too. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And have an illegal 23 meeting? Is that what you're trying to say? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Not when you're scheduling the 25 meeting. We're going to post the meeting. I don't see a 6-13-05 237 1 problem with that. We're not having a meeting; we're just 2 scheduling a meeting. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Does that mean I can 4 attend this one? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Bring it back, we can 6 rubber-stamp the date. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, you can attend 8 this one. We're going to make some decisions. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I want it in 10 writing. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is Tuesday a better 12 day? I mean, I'll just select one. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Tuesday afternoon is. 14 Mornings, I have mental health normally. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How about Tuesday, the 16 28th, in the afternoon? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's exactly where 18 we're going. 2 o'clock, so we can get a nap in after lunch? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 1:30 is better. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 1:30? 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: 1:30 is good. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You'll tell me when I 24 call you? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. Kathy will 6-13-05 238 1 know. And, of course, that's -- I have to talk to the City, 2 make sure they're available, et cetera. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And this is kind of like 4 our -- we're not going to -- you don't anticipate us 5 finalizing a contract? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, I don't. No. I 7 want to provide you with the information that I've received, 8 which is going back to our little fistfight earlier. It's 9 basically -- some of it's the exact same information I think 10 the Judge got, so I'll -- we'll get everything to you. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's fine. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Not a fistfight. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, it was close. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I got responses to my 15 questions last Friday, and Kathy is making comments -- 16 copies, excuse me, for -- for all of y'all. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And I'll do the same 18 with mine. I think it's some of the same information. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't know. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And one other comment 21 I'd like to make is that not too long ago, we had agreed in 22 here to do evaluations on our employees in the month of 23 June, and here we are, so we need to -- 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What's the process 25 on that? I know who to write them on, but what do I do with 6-13-05 239 1 them after I write them? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It doesn't matter. 3 Just throw them away -- no. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Give them to the 5 coordinator? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We always give them to 7 the personnel director of the courthouse. Like I said, just 8 throw them away. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Do we share them 10 among each other? Do you get to see what I write and -- do 11 you just want to give them to the coordinator? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's probably 13 better. We probably need to start a new trend. I mean 14 that. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They need to be in 16 by? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: End of the month. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I was just bringing it 19 up 'cause we said we were going to do it. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We did say that. 21 I've got the forms. I've just got to put some words on 22 them. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything further from 24 any member of the Court? Elected officials? Department 25 heads? Any further reports? Okay, we are going to stand in 6-13-05 240 1 recess until 1:30 tomorrow afternoon, at which time we will 2 reconvene this meeting, as well as a workshop previously 3 posted. We'll be in recess. 4 (Commissioners Court recessed at 3:45 p.m.) 5 - - - - - - - - - - 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 6-13-05 241 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 5 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 6 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 7 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 21st day of June, 2005. 8 9 10 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 11 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 12 Certified Shorthand Reporter 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 6-13-05