1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Special Session 10 Monday, June 27, 2005 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge 23 H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 24 DAVE NICHOLSON, Commissioner Pct. 4 25 ABSENT: WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 2 1 I N D E X June 27, 2005 2 PAGE --- Visitor's Input 3 3 --- Commissioners' Comments 6 4 1.1 Approve contracts for county telephone system audit and computer network engineering services 10 5 1.2 Report on video teleconferencing, consider/discuss proposals for video teleconferencing & funding via 6 grant 20 1.4 Consider/discuss amendment to the Administrative 7 Services Agreement between United of Omaha Life Insurance Company and Kerr County 39 8 1.5 Consider and clarify worker's comp policy 1.3 Request approval for COSTCO to set up annually for 9 1 day in the lower level of the courthouse 44 1.6 Consider road name changes for privately maintained 10 roads in accordance with 9-1-1 guidelines 47 1.7 Consider authorizing Sheriff's Office to prepare 11 RFP to be sent to architects for study on addition to existing county jail 47 12 1.8 Seek authority of Commissioners Court to pursue litigation to resolve construction deficiencies 13 related to KCJF new building 50 1.9 Consider/discuss and approval of amendment to the 14 contract between Office of the Attorney General and Kerr County 55 15 1.10 Consider directing Environmental Health Department Manager/Floodplain Administrator to deny permits 16 when there is a violation of Subdivision Rules 57 1.11 Consider/discuss contract for rabies and animal 17 control between County and City of Kerrville 65 1.12 Consider/discuss Butt Holdsworth Memorial Library 18 Contract between County and City of Kerrville 78 1.13 Consider and discuss approval of resolution 19 favoring/opposing speed limit increase 97 20 4.1 Pay Bills 105 4.2 Budget Amendments 109 21 4.3 Late Bills --- 4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 119 22 5.1 Reports from Commissioners/Liaison Committee 23 Assignments 119 24 --- Adjourned 122 25 3 1 On Monday, June 27, 2005, at 9:00 a.m., a special meeting 2 of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in the 3 Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville, 4 Texas, and the following proceedings were had in open court: 5 P R O C E E D I N G S 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning. Let me call to 7 order this regularly scheduled meeting of the Kerr County 8 Commissioners Court scheduled for this date and time, 9 Monday, June 27, 2005, at 9 a.m. Commissioner 3? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Please stand and join me 11 in a moment of prayer, please. 12 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. At this time, if 14 there's any member of the audience or the public who wishes 15 to come forward and bring to the Court's attention any 16 matter that is not a listed agenda item, you're privileged 17 to come forward at this time. Mr. Emerson? 18 MR. EMERSON: Yes, sir. One item very 19 quickly. I just wanted to give kudos and heads-up to the 20 Commissioners Court what a good job Maintenance and the 21 Information Technology did with our remodel. Construction's 22 completely through and we almost have everything back in 23 place, and they persevered through it with a minimum cost to 24 the taxpayers of the county. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Super. 6-27-05 4 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Anyone else 2 wishing to come forward and speak to us about a matter that 3 is not listed on the agenda? 4 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Trolinger? 6 MR. TROLINGER: I have a letter here that I 7 received from the J.P. 2; I believe y'all have a copy of it. 8 It's regarding internet usage, and it's real simple. We had 9 a network -- the history is, we had a network backlog a 10 couple weeks ago and I had to turn off some services. One 11 of them was internet radio. And I just wanted your advice 12 on that letter, to ask y'all -- to ask the Court if -- if 13 that policy that states no streaming audio is -- is 14 prohibited, if I can continue with that service being cut 15 off. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's not on the agenda. 17 Put on it the agenda. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. You can't -- 19 MR. TROLINGER: Put on it the agenda? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Next time. 21 MR. TROLINGER: That's why I was asking your 22 advice on what to do with that. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: If I'm not mistaken, we 24 adopted a use policy here last year, I believe, and that 25 might be a first place to start to review. 6-27-05 5 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What's the verbiage? 2 Stream? 3 MR. TROLINGER: Streaming audio. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Streaming audio. 5 MR. TROLINGER: Which means, basically, music 6 or some type of voice over the internet. It just uses a 7 large amount of bandwidth, and -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't -- I mean, I 9 don't want to answer the question. I'm just going to say 10 something, 'cause I really don't want to get in a dialogue 11 on it, but if there's a reason, for the overall workings of 12 our system, that something needs to be done on a temporary, 13 emergency basis -- 14 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- I think that there's 16 probably authority to do that. But any policy change needs 17 to be an agenda item. 18 MR. TROLINGER: I believe it is in the 19 policy, and -- and thank you for that. So, it affects more 20 than one department. I just wanted to make it aware to the 21 Court that that's going on, and you might hear some 22 grumblings about it, and there's the first written piece of 23 evidence to that. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I suggest you put it on 25 the agenda next time. 6-27-05 6 1 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Frankly, I don't think we're 3 going to hear a lot of grumblings about it, if the truth 4 were known. Anyone else have anything to bring before the 5 Court that's not in connection with a listed agenda item? 6 If not, we will move on. Commissioner Letz? What do you 7 have for us this morning? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I have to start off 9 with two sports kudos. Congratulations to the University of 10 Texas Longhorns for their sixth national championship for 11 baseball. They did an amazing job. I mean, they're a team 12 that didn't have any real big stars, and they just played 13 fantastic baseball and got to the playoffs and went right 14 through and went undefeated and won. Also, obviously, San 15 Antonio Spurs. What a great week it was for sports in this 16 area. I think that's really it; I don't think have I any 17 other news. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner 4? 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's obviously very 20 dry in west Kerr County. It's -- conditions are dangerous. 21 I made a comment to somebody that I can drop a match in my 22 front lawn and it would burn, so we've got 4th of July 23 coming up, so we just need to try to get everybody to be 24 very cautious about -- about fire. And next Saturday, 25 July 2nd, beginning at 4 o'clock, we'll be having a 6-27-05 7 1 fundraiser for Julie Mogenis. She's the world record holder 2 hunter and hunting guide that was terribly injured in a 3 firearm accident while she was guiding someone, and she's a 4 member -- her and her husband are members of the Hunt 5 Volunteer Fire Department, so we'll be doing some good 6 cooking next Saturday afternoon at 4 o'clock. If you -- if 7 you're all out that way, please join us. That's all I've 8 got. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How much does it cost? 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We can probably work 11 a deal for you, Buster. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right. All right, 13 deal. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: As an early resident 15 of west Kerr County. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think it's six 18 bucks. I'm not sure. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, god. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: But for you and your capacity 21 to eat good food, it probably ought to be about twice that. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, could I bring -- 23 could you bring somebody else and get two tickets for $12? 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Mm-hmm. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a good deal. 6-27-05 8 1 All right, I'll go along with that. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: What do you have for us? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have another sports 4 kind of related issue here in Kerrville. We talk about 5 baseball and basketball and track, football and all that all 6 the time, but another area is cheerleading. Our Kerrville 7 Tivy cheerleaders went off to camp at the University of 8 Texas in Austin, and the freshmen, JV, and varsity all won 9 first places in that entire camp, and that's a big camp. I 10 had a kid go to that one time, and it's huge, and hats off 11 to the cheerleaders in Kerrville. Back to the burn ban 12 issue, we have an emergency meeting today at 2:30 to put the 13 burn ban on. Number 4 and I, at least, are going to do 14 that, and so I wanted to alert everybody about that. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why have an emergency 16 meeting? 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's expired. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, the 90-day one has 19 expired? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So we need to get that 23 done. We had a pretty good fire Saturday between Number 4 24 and I, and it got real close to being very ugly. Last 25 Saturday night, I went to a function -- Clay and I went to a 6-27-05 9 1 function out at Schreiner University. It was called Back -- 2 Back to the Roots Music, and it was one of the most 3 interesting things I'd ever been to. And they had hammer -- 4 a hammered dulcimer, mountain dulcimer, fiddles, banjos, 5 mandolins, guitars, and these guys were very good. They 6 teach all over the United States, and they were just 7 absolutely phenomenal. That's one of my passions, and I 8 enjoyed that very much. And there were probably -- in that 9 auditorium, there were probably 50, 75 people max, and the 10 majority of them were students out there going through this 11 music camp. And so the -- you know, Clay and his family, 12 his mom and dad and wife, and me and my family, and -- and a 13 few -- handful of others in the community were there, and it 14 just kind of blew me away to see -- I mean, you know, if 15 people don't like that kind of music, that's fine, but I 16 don't understand that. But, anyway, it was a -- it was put 17 on by our friend Bob Miller that does the Arts and Crafts 18 Fair, and it was some -- the Arts and Crafts Education 19 Committee or something like that -- foundation, maybe. Kind 20 of a little fundraiser for them, so watch for those kinds of 21 things. And they will be -- it was the first annual, and it 22 was just absolutely fantastic. We had really big-time 23 musicians in Kerrville, and it was -- it was something to 24 see, so watch for it next year. That's all. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. 6-27-05 10 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, if I might make a 2 comment on the burn ban also, since we're going to have the 3 meeting late, I don't know when the press is going to be 4 leaving, but I intend to put the burn ban on in my precinct. 5 I believe Commissioner Williams, based on his instructions, 6 is doing the same. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: If my understanding of the 8 mechanics of the burn ban operation is correct, if the Court 9 votes to put the burn ban in effect, it applies to the 10 entire county, and then within the 90-day period, it can be 11 selectively suspended at the discretion of each 12 Commissioner. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: So that should be a pretty 15 good clue to those in attendance here this morning as to 16 what's going to occur, but that meeting will be at 2:30 this 17 afternoon. Let's get on with the agenda. Item Number 1, 18 consider, discuss, and approval of contract for county 19 telephone system audit and county computer network 20 engineering services. Mr. Trolinger. 21 MR. TROLINGER: Thank you. I have one 22 additional contract that -- that was not available to me 23 that's been reviewed by the County Attorney for our -- our 24 West Kerr Annex for the high-speed network connection to the 25 courthouse. The County Attorney made -- made a review of 6-27-05 11 1 the contract and put several notes on it, and -- but before 2 we -- before we do sign that contract, I'd like Rex to 3 answer, do we go ahead and sign the contract and -- and make 4 changes to it as per your -- your concerns? Or do we have 5 to go through a negotiation process on that? 6 MR. EMERSON: Typically, contracts need to be 7 a joint agreement between the parties where you have a 8 mutual meeting of the minds, and I think you need to talk to 9 them about all these changes. I had recommended one, two, 10 three -- nine different changes, or eight different changes 11 with one clarification to that contract, and it's my 12 understanding that we've not heard back yet. 13 MR. TROLINGER: Correct. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What is -- can you go 15 back? What are we doing? What's this for? 16 MR. TROLINGER: This is the connection -- 17 this is the connection -- we received a grant from the 18 D.P.S. to give us electronic reporting capability for the 19 J.P. 4 office. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 21 MR. TROLINGER: Justice of the Peace 4. And 22 as part of that, we have to have a high-speed connection to 23 the courthouse so that they can log into our system and 24 access The Software Group server, and this service here is 25 part of that grant. 6-27-05 12 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How's it get from J.P. 4 2 to the courthouse? 3 MR. TROLINGER: Across that connection that's 4 provided by Cebridge across a secure connection across the 5 internet. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Tax Collector and 7 clerk use this also? 8 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, it's shared. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: This -- this is a 10 dial-up? 11 MR. TROLINGER: It's -- it's across a cable. 12 It's a cable modem. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What -- what is -- I'm 14 reading here "engineering services described in Attachment 15 A." 16 MR. TROLINGER: And I have a separate -- a 17 separate contract. These are separate items. It's 18 independent. They're contracts, but they're independent 19 from one another. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. And we're 21 dealing with engineering services only at this moment? 22 MR. TROLINGER: This contract that we're 23 looking at now? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 25 MR. TROLINGER: Is -- is for the connection 6-27-05 13 1 between the courthouse and the J.P. 4, the contract with 2 Cebridge. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're not dealing with 4 Item Number 1? 5 MR. TROLINGER: Correct. That's -- it's Item 6 Number 1, but I did not have a copy of that contract; it was 7 still being reviewed at the time that I -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Cebridge is -- of 9 course, we haven't looked it over yet, but is this the same 10 thing as the one from TRC? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the TRC contract? 12 MR. TROLINGER: TRC is for network services 13 to consult -- to tell us if our network's secure, if it 14 needs to be reconfigured. It's just an engineering review 15 of the network. One piece of it will include reviewing the 16 Cebridge connection that we have to J.P. 4. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Y'all keep asking 19 questions. I'll catch up. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm lost. Why do we 21 need -- what's this for? Why do we have the TRC contract? 22 Why do we need that? 23 MR. TROLINGER: The TRC contract is to review 24 our network security and make recommendations on how to 25 proceed with the physical structure of the network. It's 6-27-05 14 1 just -- it's just a couple few hours from the experts that 2 can back me on how the network's configured. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's kind -- it's 4 kind of a study? 5 MR. TROLINGER: Yes. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: A study of the system. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, we're 8 considering two things; we're considering a contract to get 9 some expertise to help us on our security, and we're 10 considering a monthly fee for a high-speed internet? 11 MR. TROLINGER: And the telephone system 12 audit, which is the -- which is the other item, yes, sir. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Three items. 14 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: TRC does the telephone 16 system audit? 17 MR. TROLINGER: TRC is the network, the 18 computer network. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Who's doing the telephone 20 audit? 21 MR. TROLINGER: TNT. There's -- that is in 22 your package. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. That's that 24 individual that used to be with Southwestern Bell or 25 somebody? 6-27-05 15 1 MR. TROLINGER: Correct. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're not talking 3 about long-distance service in any way at this point, are 4 we? 5 MR. TROLINGER: That's correct. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, thank you. Is 7 there three different motions? 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I got a couple 9 more -- what's it going to cost us for this TRC Engineering 10 Services? 11 MR. TROLINGER: TRC Engineering, as part of 12 the capital outlay that's already budgeted this year, covers 13 network -- network equipment configuration. That's covered. 14 TNT is not covered; that's an expenditure that would have to 15 be decided on by the Court. I don't have a -- a source of 16 funding. Whether or not you even want to pursue a telephone 17 audit's another question. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why would we want to 19 pursue a telephone audit? Other than our system doesn't 20 work real well? (Laughter.) 21 MR. TROLINGER: It's maxed out. We're maxed 22 out. We have some improvements that I think we could find. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's a $3,000 24 item, telephone audit. 25 MR. TROLINGER: Yes. And then the other -- 6-27-05 16 1 the other item was the Cebridge contract, and that's covered 2 by the J.P. 4 grant. So, just the -- just the telephone 3 audit contract would be an additional expense for this 4 year's budget. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How'd we end up with 6 Cebridge, and who is -- why -- I mean, I've never heard of 7 Cebridge. How did we get -- how did they decide to bid on 8 this, and nobody else, like KTC? 9 MR. TROLINGER: We've got two choices for the 10 connection to the -- to Ingram. One is a dial-up telephone 11 line, and the other is Cebridge high-speed internet over the 12 cable. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So this the only one that 14 has that -- 15 MR. TROLINGER: This is the only ones that 16 have that capability. There's a third option that's 17 prohibitively expensive that I didn't even consider. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Is that satellite? 19 MR. TROLINGER: Not satellite; it's a 20 dedicated line from SBC. It was about $200 a month. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, on the Cebridge one, 22 the most we can do is approve the contract subject to 23 Cebridge accepting all the conditions? 24 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. And those 6-27-05 17 1 funds are to be paid for out of the grant? 2 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 5 approval of the Cebridge agreement subject to conditions as 6 expressed. Any question or discussion on the motion? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Subject to the 8 conditions laid out by the County Attorney? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, yes, uh-huh. Subject to 11 those conditions being satisfied that the County Attorney 12 expressed. Any further question or discussion? All in 13 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We're not acting now 19 on the TNT telephone audit? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We could. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If we had the money. 22 If somebody tells us where the money is. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Is that something 24 that can wait for the budget process? 25 MR. TROLINGER: It can. And I wanted to make 6-27-05 18 1 you aware of it, since I had these contracts here in front 2 of me, on getting some advice from you. Do we even want a 3 telephone audit? Can we -- can we get some payback from it? 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I would like to be 5 able to prioritize things like this with other demands for 6 money that's coming up for next year. I'd rather deal with 7 it in budget process. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree. I have no 9 problem with that. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Can you live with 12 that, John? 13 MR. TROLINGER: Thank you, yes. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the TRC contract, 15 that is already in the current budget? 16 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the total 18 expenditure going to be under that contract? 19 MR. TROLINGER: Less than -- not to exceed 20 $1,000. And it is on the engineering services schedule of 21 fees where they list their hourly rates, but I verbally told 22 them not to exceed $1,000. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that needs to be 24 added into the contract. Has the County Attorney reviewed 25 the TRC contract? 6-27-05 19 1 MR. EMERSON: Yes, sir. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And it's okay? 3 MR. EMERSON: Basic form is fine. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move we approve the TRC 5 contract with a limit of $1,000 in expenditures, the funds 6 to come out of the budgeted funds in Capital Outlay. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 9 approval of the contract with the limitation as expressed. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And authorize the County 11 Judge to sign such contract. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Any question or discussion? 13 All in favor of that motion, signify by raising your right 14 hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 19 MR. TROLINGER: Thank you. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm assuming -- I want 21 to ask a question, John, dealing with long-distance service. 22 I'm assuming that we will just stay with what we're doing, 23 huh? Do you -- 24 MR. TROLINGER: Have we received any bids 25 from the -- 6-27-05 20 1 MS. PIEPER: For what? 2 MR. TROLINGER: Have we received any 3 long-distance bids? 4 MS. MITCHELL: One. 5 MR. TROLINGER: One? Okay. Based on the 6 bids, which we have one right now, we're staying with what 7 we have. We have a demonstration in place that's just 8 finished up that's working very well. That works over the 9 internet through the Time-Warner high-speed modem. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Very good. Thank you. 11 MR. TROLINGER: I'm not ready to make a 12 recommendation on changing. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's go to Item 2, 15 report on video teleconferencing for the district, county, 16 and J.P. courts, including jail. Consider and discuss 17 proposal for video teleconferencing and funding via grant. 18 MR. TROLINGER: Okay. Judge Tinley asked me, 19 probably in February, when I first started, to look at the 20 possibility of video teleconferencing for the county and for 21 the district courts, and, first of all, if it was possible 22 to do this. And, yes, it is possible, and we do have the -- 23 the means in place for video teleconferencing between 24 Gillespie County, Kerr County, and the Kerr County jail, and 25 with possibly three other counties that could participate in 6-27-05 21 1 the future for video teleconferencing. What this means is 2 that district attorneys, judges, inmates, attorneys, and 3 lawyers that represent inmates can use video 4 teleconferencing in place of traveling or being exposed 5 to -- to an inmate that's incarcerated. That's probably the 6 -- the top -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So the intent is to make 8 the judicial side more efficient? 9 MR. TROLINGER: Yes. The travel part for the 10 district attorneys, I see it especially. And I've talked to 11 Brady, to McCulloch County Information Technology, and it's 12 probably doable there to put in video teleconferencing; they 13 have a fast enough connection right now to the internet. 14 But the travel that the judges, the prosecutors, the 15 attorneys, that's a huge -- a huge savings in just wear and 16 tear. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: John, I can easily 18 see the efficiency of -- of being able to do this and the 19 impact it'll have on people involved in the judicial 20 process. Be very positive. Later on we're going to be 21 talking about jails, and we're probably going to be talking 22 about jails every -- every time we meet for a while. Could 23 this also have the potential to speed up the process to 24 where we get people who are in jail disposed of more quickly 25 and -- 6-27-05 22 1 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- give some relief 3 on crowded conditions? 4 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. Specifically, on 5 the magistration, I did a little bit of research, and don't 6 know a lot about the process -- the law enforcement process, 7 but -- but from what I've read in a specific grant 8 application here, it -- it specifically stated that one of 9 the purposes that this county applied for the grant was 10 to -- to magistrate more efficiently and -- and speed up the 11 process. I think that was Cochran County. I wanted to read 12 it exactly here. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Cochran and Hockley Counties, 14 I believe, are the ones you're referring to. 15 MR. TROLINGER: In their grant application, 16 they said, "We propose to install video teleconferencing in 17 six courtrooms and provide inmates ability to receive their 18 statutorily-mandated magistrate's warning as early in their 19 incarceration as possible." And that's -- that was the 20 first paragraph of their -- of their activity statement. 21 So, just that portion where they're speeding the process 22 along with -- with maybe getting that guy bonded out, I 23 think is what that would lead to. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are we there? Is this an 25 agenda item to authorize going out for a grant to find out 6-27-05 23 1 if there's -- I mean, what's the intent of the agenda item? 2 MR. TROLINGER: This is my report. This is 3 my report. I wasn't sure if I should -- if I had to ask the 4 Court to apply for the grant, and I understand I do need to 5 ask the Court to apply for a grant, so I will be doing that. 6 And I do have the -- a couple of sources available. One of 7 them's very promising. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Two questions. You -- 9 up front, you said Kerr County, Gillespie County. Now, 10 that's the 216th District. You're not -- we're not talking 11 about just doing 216th; we're going to talk about 216th and 12 198th District? 'Cause you also mentioned McCulloch and 13 that bunch up in there, which is 198th. 14 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So you're talking 16 about doing -- trying to do the entire -- if those counties 17 are geared to do it? 18 MR. TROLINGER: Long-term, it would be best 19 to do all eight counties. All eight. But there are 20 limitations today, the bandwidth, the high-speed internet 21 connection. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But Fredericksburg's 23 ready to go? 24 MR. TROLINGER: They are ready. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. And I can't 6-27-05 24 1 imagine Boerne not -- or Kendall County not being up and 2 running. 3 MR. TROLINGER: I haven't spoken with them 4 yet. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Surely they are. 6 Another question about the -- about the funding. You go out 7 for a grant. How many years is that grant available? 8 MR. TROLINGER: The one that's the most 9 promising is 12 months, one year. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: One year. And then we 11 pick up the tab from that point on, and what would be that 12 tab? 13 MR. TROLINGER: Well, what we're paying for 14 now with our high-speed internet connection is all that's 15 required once we own the video teleconferencing equipment. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Except for maintenance 17 and those kinds of things? 18 MR. TROLINGER: If a piece of equipment 19 breaks, we have to get it replaced or repaired, correct. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What is the total, 21 bottom-line figure right now? 22 MR. TROLINGER: If we wanted to do all eight 23 -- if we could possibly do all eight counties and our jail, 24 it's -- I've got two quotes. One is $72,000, the other is 25 $84,000. 6-27-05 25 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We would be doing all 2 eight counties? 3 MR. TROLINGER: Well, the idea being that I 4 have the pricing available to -- I'm giving you what the 5 total number would be. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: For all eight 7 counties. 8 MR. TROLINGER: I don't know how -- what kind 9 of distribution -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But our cost would be 11 much less than that. 12 MR. TROLINGER: Much less. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just for Kerr County. 14 MR. TROLINGER: It's about $8,000 per unit 15 installed. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: $8,000 per unit? 17 MR. TROLINGER: Per box that does the video 18 teleconference, has the TV, has the camera and the 19 microphone. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We would have one, 21 like, in both district courts; that's two. 22 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: One D.A., that's 24 three. One Sheriff is four. Does the District Clerk do 25 that as well? Or -- 6-27-05 26 1 MR. TROLINGER: Well, I was just looking at 2 the courtrooms and the jail immediately. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Courtrooms and jail. 4 What about the D.A.? The D.A.'s got to participate in that. 5 MR. TROLINGER: Right. They're near one of 6 the courthouses, so -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. I like that. 8 MR. TROLINGER: -- I presume that -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He can walk over here. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And you put one in 11 each -- like, one would be in the Boerne or Kendall County 12 courthouse, one in Gillespie County? 13 MR. TROLINGER: And it's portable, so if for 14 some reason the Commissioners Court needed it, we could set 15 the box here and plug it in. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Two questions. I know 17 Judge Tinley has expressed an interested in it. Have Judge 18 Prohl and Judge Ables expressed interest as well? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Before I ever floated this 20 thing, I talked with both of those judges, and they saw it 21 as a -- a usable tool. In response to Commissioner 22 Nicholson's question, you gain efficiency by cutting down 23 the time that particularly the 198th District Judge spends 24 running up and down the road back and forth to these rural 25 counties, and to a lesser degree, the 216th Judge. For 6-27-05 27 1 example, to -- to Brady. He's got, what, an hour and a half 2 travel time each way? May go up and do five arraignments as 3 a result of some indictments that were returned a month 4 before. He can take care of his business probably in half 5 an hour, 45 minutes maybe at most. Then he turns around and 6 comes back. Well, if you've got the video teleconferencing 7 set up, you -- that can be handled from right here. The -- 8 the defendant can be online on the screen in Brady, for 9 example; the D.A. can be in Junction at the courthouse. 10 Oftentimes the attorneys come from out of county. It'll cut 11 down on the time they have to spend, thus the indigent 12 defense expense. I just think it has a lot of -- a lot of 13 promise for increased efficiency, and I think in that 14 manner, it will give those judges more time to be doing what 15 they need to use their time for, and that's disposing of 16 cases rather than spending it on the road. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So it could free up 18 some beds in the county jail? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: I see that it could, yes. 20 Now, the degree to which that might happen, I don't know. 21 The -- the Legislature is more and more authorizing the use 22 of video teleconferencing for -- for summary-type 23 procedures, for arraignments, for magistration. I have a 24 request in now to the Office of Court Administration to 25 provide me a synopsis of all the areas where that's 6-27-05 28 1 permitted now. Hopefully it can be done for pleas. It can 2 be done in civil cases for default judgments, 3 uncontested-type cases where the judges won't have to be 4 spending the time on the road. The whole thing is to 5 enhance the efficiency of -- of the judicial function. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is it strictly a 7 judicial function? Or can you tie it with the M.H.M.R. 8 program? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: We already have that 10 capability in place here locally. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: And, yeah, it -- my initial 13 concept when -- when I started taking a look at this was for 14 the judicial -- how it was tied to the judicial functions. 15 There's, of course, all sorts of related possibilities, one 16 of which is the M.H.M.R. situation where the clinical people 17 can have the opportunity to interact with those that are in 18 custody in jail in order to be able to formulate judgments 19 as to the needs of that particular individual. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think if we look at the 21 agenda item, I mean, I think what I'm hearing is that 22 there's interest, so put on it the next agenda to proceed 23 with the grant. 24 MR. TROLINGER: Will do. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: One more question -- 6-27-05 29 1 Clay, don't walk off; I got a question for you. Can -- can 2 you magistrate via television? 3 MR. BARTON: Legally? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, legally. 5 MR. BARTON: As far -- if that's the 6 question. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 8 MR. BARTON: As far as I know, you can. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You don't have to have 10 a human body sitting there for the question-answer period 11 and all that? 12 MR. BARTON: Not to my knowledge. You may 13 want to ask the County Attorney that question. 14 MR. TROLINGER: I asked Judge Elliott to 15 investigate that for me. He's going to get back to me. 16 MS. UECKER: You can. 17 MR. EMERSON: I don't remember all the 18 specifics, but you can magistrate -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 20 MR. EMERSON: -- with the video 21 teleconferencing. It's my understanding you have two-way 22 communication, so there's no reason you couldn't have the 23 question and answer session between the magistrate and the 24 defendant. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Cool. 6-27-05 30 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the other thing 2 that probably needs to be done about the same time is to -- 3 I don't know how it works, whether the Commissioner 4 contacts -- or maybe Judge Tinley contacts Judge Prohl and 5 Judge Ables. We need to get this in front of the other 6 Commissioners Courts or judges or, you know, the other 7 counties, because they're going to have to have some 8 expenditure down the road and sign off on the grant, 'cause 9 I'm not comfortable on -- in our grant, buying a computer 10 for Kendall County, or a teleconferencing unit. So, somehow 11 we need to figure out how to coordinate -- or John needs to 12 figure out how to coordinate the grant request with all the 13 other counties that need to participates. 14 MR. TROLINGER: I'm open to ideas. But I 15 don't have a good one, other than I've -- I've spoken with 16 the -- with a couple of Information Technology people, my 17 counterparts, and spoken with the District Judges to see if 18 they were interested, and so far I'm hearing yes from all 19 those. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't know the process. 21 I don't know -- probably best to use maybe the court 22 coordinator upstairs, Becky, and to get it into their budget 23 scenario, or at least to sign off on it. It's something 24 that needs to be done before we can submit the grant. I 25 think the grant needs to come from all counties, or maybe 6-27-05 31 1 the counties authorize -- you know, I don't know, Judge, the 2 best way to do that. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I'm hoping that the 4 initial funding that's going to be required for the 5 equipment in all the counties can be -- can be obtained from 6 non-budgeted taxpayers' funds through a grant, or -- or I've 7 got some other thoughts in mind that I've been working on 8 sort of that won't take taxpayer funds. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, the initial grant 10 would include all eight counties? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm not sure how the initial 12 grant would be structured, or whether all counties would 13 make the grant request and then they'd be consolidated, but 14 effectively, I think it would be most effective and most 15 efficient if we were to put it together in a 198th/216th 16 combined package. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with that. I 18 think Commissioner Letz is also correct, though, in getting 19 some kind of commitment from those other counties, "Yes, 20 we're going to -- when it becomes -- when our system becomes 21 available, then we're ready to ante up. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Plus if I was -- whoever 23 we're applying for the grant from, I mean, if we're buying 24 equipment for another county, I think I would want, before I 25 gave the money, to know that that county wants it. 6-27-05 32 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm wondering if 3 this equipment's not the property of the two District 4 Judges, and they take it out to Kendall County, set it down 5 and say, "Here's our equipment that we're going to be 6 using," instead of each county owning equipment. 7 MR. TROLINGER: That's a good idea. I hadn't 8 even thought about that. Where -- where Kerr County and -- 9 and the District Judges here can own the equipment, and they 10 just take it with them. One of the units is -- looks like 11 this; they're in the brochure. And, literally, you can pick 12 it up with one hand. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Looks like a snuff 14 can. 15 MR. TROLINGER: It's about -- it's about a 16 bread box. 17 MR. BARTON: Buster, I do want to qualify one 18 thing. And to answer your question about magistrations, the 19 difficult part about magistrating via teleconferencing is 20 going to be on the Class C misdemeanors. A lot of times 21 they go ahead and just plead guilty; the judge goes ahead 22 and takes their pleas at that time, which requires the 23 inmates to sign the paperwork and the Judge to accept the 24 pleas. In lieu of taking P.R. bonds, to -- for them to 25 appear back before the J.P.'s on P.I.'s and Class C 6-27-05 33 1 misdemeanors. So, I'm not sure how that can be orchestrated 2 to when they could still enter the pleas of guilty via 3 teleconferencing, but that would be one issue that -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Getting their 5 signature? 6 MR. BARTON: And they may be able to sign it 7 in front of the camera. I don't know how that would work 8 yet. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 10 MR. BARTON: But it's more than just sitting 11 in front of them, just reading their rights. Sometimes they 12 do go and take guilty pleas at the time. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Going back to using -- 15 going through District Judges, Tommy, don't we -- right now, 16 isn't there a bunch of those costs that are allocated 17 amongst all the counties? Some of the salaries and -- 18 MR. TOMLINSON: All the salaries and benefits 19 are. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, I mean, I don't know 21 why this system couldn't be done the same way, as long as 22 you allocate that cost back out to them. Which is kind of 23 what, I think, Commissioner Baldwin or Mr. Trolinger, 24 whoever it was, said about the District Judges have the 25 system and then take it. Because, I mean, someone still has 6-27-05 34 1 to pay for it. And -- 2 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, I know this -- this 3 same thing has been done in -- I think Tom Green County did 4 this, and they use it for communities surrounding San 5 Angelo. I don't know how they -- they got their grant 6 through the Office of Court Administration. I don't -- I 7 don't know enough about it to know who owns the property, 8 but, I mean, I can foresee -- I mean, J.P.'s use the -- this 9 instrument also. So, it seems to me like the County 10 should -- should own the equipment so they can use it, 11 anybody that wanted to, because you have other courts in the 12 counties besides the district courts. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 14 MR. TOMLINSON: And I know that in -- that in 15 198th District, there's probably more -- probably more 16 county and J.P. issues than there are district issues. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, you know, I think, 18 John, you need to visit with the judges and maybe with Tommy 19 and some other counties and just figure out the best way to 20 proceed with the grant. 21 MR. TROLINGER: Okay. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Come back with the 23 grant. 24 MR. TROLINGER: Sounds like I need to go 25 through Becky Henderson with the District Judges, and then 6-27-05 35 1 bring it back to you with their yea or nay on whether or not 2 they want to apply for the grant. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'd like to get it 4 done, and if we can figure out the least bureaucratic and 5 complex way of doing it, that would be -- would be best. 6 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I tell you, if that -- 8 one of your comments you hinted at was that that would 9 relieve the judges from their travel, and they could be 10 taking care of the things that -- that we have an interest 11 in in Kerr County, and that is being in that courtroom and 12 getting those prisoners out of that jail, which has been a 13 thorn in everybody's side, and I understand some feelings 14 have been hurt over that particular issue. Maybe this is a 15 way to do it. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I certainly see it as a 17 way of increasing efficiency. Now, obviously, you can't use 18 it for jury trials, and there are going to be other 19 limitations, but when you stop and consider the number of -- 20 the number of cases and the amount of volume of cases that's 21 pretty routine, pretty mundane, as opposed to very complex 22 jury trials or highly contested criminal jury trials, for 23 example, a lot of that business is disposed of in a routine 24 nature, and if you -- if you got a judge that's able to 25 handle cases and dispose of cases for an hour and a half, 6-27-05 36 1 rather than be on the road driving somewhere -- 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: -- it makes a tremendous 4 difference. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: But we've -- I've got an 7 inquiry outstanding to the Office of Court Administration as 8 to, you know, what particular instances current legislation 9 authorizes video teleconferencing to be used. There were a 10 number of additional bills which were filed in the 11 Legislature this past session. I don't know what the 12 outcome of those -- those particular measures were, but I'm 13 due to get a response to that hopefully very quickly. It's 14 been promised to me, as well as then looking at how it might 15 be utilized from a funding standpoint, what funding sources 16 are available for it. 17 MR. TOMLINSON: Judge, I'm recalling now that 18 the reason that Tom Green County did what they did is that 19 they had such a short supply of -- of attorneys in the 20 surrounding areas to do indigent work that what it did for 21 the -- for the -- like, in Runnels County. Runnels County 22 is adjacent to Tom Green. It increased their ability to -- 23 or increased their inventory of qualified attorneys for 24 those cases in those small counties. So, the same thing 25 would help here. I know it would in Bandera, because I know 6-27-05 37 1 that the judge -- the County Judge down there has a very 2 difficult time finding qualified attorneys for some cases, 3 'cause they just don't have them. So what happens, he winds 4 up having to get attorneys out of San Antonio, Kendall 5 County, Kerr County, so that -- that would help those 6 counties. So, I don't see why they would have any objection 7 whatsoever of -- of joining in this. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, we have a very similar 9 situation in McCulloch, Mason, Menard, and Kimble Counties. 10 Very often the defense attorneys for the indigent defendants 11 in those cases come out of Kerr County, and those lawyers 12 are having to travel. 13 MR. TOMLINSON: Right. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: And that cost is having to be 15 picked up by somebody. 16 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah, that's exactly the 17 reason. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: And if -- if the lawyer could 19 operate from his home county, wherever that may be, through 20 video teleconferencing for the routine-type procedures -- 21 the arraignments, the pretrials, the pleas, for example -- 22 that would cut those costs down. And, in fact, most of 23 the -- most of the grant funding that I've seen has come 24 through the indigent defense route. There were 25 approximately -- of the grants last year under the indigent 6-27-05 38 1 defense system, approximately half of those, I believe -- 2 were they not, Mr. Trolinger? -- are were for video 3 teleconferencing. 4 MR. TROLINGER: For that chart we looked at 5 that was in the county magazine, yes, sir. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tommy, could we get a 7 list of those counties that have a lack of attorneys? I've 8 got a retirement coming up pretty soon, and I'm looking for 9 a place to move to, and that sounds like a good -- good 10 sales point to me. (Laughter.) So, you -- Menard, Mason -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: McCulloch. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: McCulloch, Irion, 13 Schleicher. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Loving. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Loving? That's a 16 little too far. Okay, appreciate that. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Runnels. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm heading west. 19 Runnels. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else on that 21 particular agenda item? 22 MR. TROLINGER: And last thing I have is, I 23 can see it as a -- as benefiting, even though I'm talking 24 about the district and bringing in the two district courts, 25 I see that as -- as a funding source in lieu of a grant, an 6-27-05 39 1 alternate funding source. But for Kerr County, I see the 2 benefit for the -- for the jail, for the reduced traffic 3 between here and the jail, exposure to the public of the 4 inmates going back and forth, which I've seen a lot of 5 traffic back and forth. And the -- for the indigent defense 6 side, I was thinking outside the box, and I did some 7 research, and I found out that there are several 8 organizations that provide pro bono services via video 9 teleconferencing out of Austin and out of a couple of the 10 colleges, so it might reduce our costs there to the county. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Interesting. Thank you, sir. 13 We'll wait to see this item on the agenda. Let's go to a 14 timed item that was scheduled for 9:30. Item 4, consider 15 and discuss amendment to the Administrative Services 16 Agreement of January 1, 2005, between United of Omaha Life 17 Insurance Company and Kerr County, as requested by Don 18 Wallace and Associates, and the County Judge to be 19 authorized to sign the same. Ms. Nemec? 20 MS. NEMEC: Yes, good morning. Received a 21 call from Michelle from Don Wallace's office. The way she 22 explained this to me is, we did not have a vision plan in 23 place when we first went with Mutual of Omaha, and so then 24 they went back and added the vision benefit so that it could 25 be the same as what we had with the previous carrier. And 6-27-05 40 1 then, in talking to one of our employees, they told her that 2 something was covered. It wasn't. So, what they're wanting 3 to do -- and, Judge, correct me if I'm wrong on this, 'cause 4 I know you've been talking to Michelle -- is do the 5 amendment just for this one time to cover what they told her 6 was covered, and I believe the cost is $60. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Essentially, I think what 8 we've got is we added the vision plan, but prior to that 9 being added and the adoption of the original plan, this 10 individual had the service provided, and it was therefore 11 denied. Had she had the service provided after the 12 adoption, of course, it would have been covered. So, this 13 is just merely to back up and cover that. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do we have the 15 coverage today? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. 17 MS. NEMEC: Yes. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: It's in place. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And what is that? Is 20 it eye exams? 21 MS. NEMEC: I don't know. I haven't received 22 that. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can we talk about 24 that? Or -- 25 MS. NEMEC: I haven't received -- 6-27-05 41 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 2 MS. NEMEC: -- what is covered. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So we want $60? Is 4 that the bottom line? 5 MS. NEMEC: Right. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: So as to cover this one that 8 got caught in no-man's-land. 9 MS. NEMEC: While the change was going on. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where does the $60 come 11 from? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: It'll come out of our -- what 13 we budget for -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Insurance? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Go into our contributions to 16 the -- 17 MS. NEMEC: Our claims funding account. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 21 approval of the agenda item. Any question or discussion? 22 MR. BARTON: I think we may have had some 23 employees that got messed up in the vision issue. 24 MS. HARDIN: Do we have a time frame from 25 when -- when the gap was? Because we have two that have 6-27-05 42 1 been denied. We asked about them this month. 2 MS. NEMEC: I think what we need to do, 3 probably, is they come the first Thursday of every month, 4 and maybe I can put out a notice to the employees that the 5 vision coverage will be covered so that they can attend that 6 meeting, so that we can clarify everything. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, good. 8 MR. BARTON: Another clarification that may 9 need to be done on that, Ms. Nemec, is the -- I know one of 10 the deputies called to find out if they could use the bene. 11 card card to pay for glasses -- eyeglasses, and was told 12 that they could. I think that's just through the bene. card 13 people he had spoke to. And yet, when he went to purchase 14 them, the company bene. card then rejected the swipe of the 15 credit card, because he could not use it at a retail 16 location. It's set up to where you can't abuse this bene. 17 card by going and buying groceries or buying things out at a 18 retail location, as opposed to a doctor's office. And so 19 when he went to purchase the eyeglasses, it denied it, so he 20 was stuck there on the spot having to pay for $400 21 out-of-the-pocket money to walk away with his glasses. 22 That's just something we need to get clarified. 23 MS. NEMEC: And we will. And I'm thinking 24 that probably the problem is that eyeglasses is not covered 25 under our plan. 6-27-05 43 1 MR. BARTON: It may not be. He may have 2 called the wrong people. He did call before he went to do 3 all that. In fact, I think two deputies have been caught in 4 the trickle back over eye exams and buying glasses and not 5 being able to. 6 MS. NEMEC: If we can put the word out, and 7 I'll put an e-mail out that that will be covered at our next 8 meeting, and I'll have Michelle prepared to discuss that. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any further question or 10 discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion, 11 signify by raising your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. The 16 next timed item, 9:35, is consider and clarify worker's comp 17 policy. Ms. Nemec? 18 MS. NEMEC: Okay. I put this on the agenda 19 'cause we had an employee who had been out after coming back 20 to work from the first injury, and then had to take off 21 again for some surgery procedure or something like that. 22 And we pay for the first seven days on an injury. At the 23 time that I put this on the agenda, I had a call in to 24 worker's comp to see if they were going to pick up day one 25 or if there was going to be a seven-day lapse, because they 6-27-05 44 1 only pay after the first seven days. I had not received a 2 call back from them, so I thought I'd better get this on the 3 agenda, but since then I have talked to worker's comp, and 4 they'll continue to pay, so we don't have to worry about 5 this. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 7 MS. NEMEC: Okay? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: So, we don't need any action 9 on that item? 10 MS. NEMEC: No. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. 12 MS. NEMEC: Thank you. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go back to Item 3, if we 14 might, approval for Costco to set up annually for one day in 15 June or July in the lower level of the courthouse to renew 16 memberships from the previous year or add new employees. 17 Ms. Pieper? 18 MS. PIEPER: Well, Judge, Costco called and 19 wanted to set up one day like they did last year for the 20 employees. I think they make it a discount rate; I'm not 21 real sure. I don't -- I was already a member, so I have no 22 idea. But their marketing rep, JoAnna Wilson, was supposed 23 to be here today, but she -- she hasn't got here yet, and I 24 haven't heard from her. So, I don't know if y'all want to 25 go ahead and approve for them to set up or -- 6-27-05 45 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I didn't 2 participate -- participate in the membership, but I did go 3 down there last year and watched the function, and I -- I 4 think it's kind of a neat deal. It's a service to our 5 employees to be able to go down and become a member and save 6 a little money and do some shopping and that kind of thing. 7 I don't see anything wrong with it. 8 MS. PIEPER: I think they get a discount 9 rate -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They do. 11 MS. PIEPER: -- if they sign up when they 12 come to the -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They do. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move to approve. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move to approve and 16 authorize Jannett to set the time -- or Kathy or one -- 17 Jannett. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, if you set the 19 time -- that was what I was going to ask about. If there 20 was a specific day, we can come up with a specific day so 21 that everybody knows and we don't have two functions down 22 there at one time. So, Jannett, are you going to do that? 23 Are you going to come up with a specific time and then let 24 this Court know as well as Maintenance and/or whoever needs 25 to know? 6-27-05 46 1 MS. PIEPER: I'll get with Maintenance. I 2 think they're the ones that schedule for what takes place 3 down there. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And send an e-mail out. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Costco rep's going to 7 coordinate through you anyway, right? 8 MS. PIEPER: That is correct. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do we need an order? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We already did. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Actually, we have two motions, 15 I think. I'll call the later one the second. All in favor 16 of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 17 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Didn't 21 realize there's finite nuances in parliamentary procedure, 22 did you? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If you didn't go so fast, 24 I would have asked you to read what the motion was, 'cause 25 I'm confused. 6-27-05 47 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Item 6, consider 2 road name changes for privately maintained roads in 3 accordance with the 9-1-1 guidelines. 4 MS. HARDIN: We have two private roads today 5 in Precinct 4. One is Shiner Bock and the other one's 6 Keller. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Question. Does this 8 clear up -- does this take care of all the road name changes 9 that are currently in the process? 10 MS. HARDIN: These are roads that have never 11 been named. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: But there aren't any 13 more awaiting approval? 14 MS. HARDIN: No, sir. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move to approve. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 18 approval of the agenda item. Any question or discussion? 19 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 20 hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Item 25 7, consider and discuss authorizing the Sheriff's Office to 6-27-05 48 1 prepare an RFP to be sent to architects for study on 2 addition to existing county jail. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I think that's 4 RFQ. It's just a typo there, maybe. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It needs to be RFQ, I'll 6 agree on that. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I think it was 8 just a typo. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think it was. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Barton, what do you have 11 for us this morning? 12 MR. BARTON: Just to find out whether or not 13 we can prepare the Request for Qualifications for architects 14 to be sent out for addition to the county Jail. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What's it going to 16 cost? Not the jail, the architect. 17 MR. BARTON: I don't have any idea. This is 18 just to find out who all is qualified. We'll send out 19 agreement information back to the Court and then y'all can 20 pick a -- it's my understanding the Court ends up picking 21 the architect. We're just sending out asking for 22 qualifications to see who we can bring -- 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So this doesn't cost 24 anything? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 6-27-05 49 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. It's not a -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The question I have is, 3 since this is an important thing, it's going to end up 4 before the voters, is this a typo, Mr. County Attorney, or 5 do we need to redo this? 6 MR. EMERSON: I can't say if it's a typo or 7 not. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Neither can I. I mean, I 9 don't see -- I think that this is something -- I'd hate to 10 have, you know, some citizens come back and make an issue 11 out of the fact that we didn't properly hire the architect, 12 if we do hire an architect. And I think that the Sheriff's 13 Department's certainly under -- you know, can prepare the 14 document to go out and do this, and bring those documents 15 back. We can put them on our next meeting. I don't see 16 where we'll lose any time. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: And put it on the agenda as an 18 authorization to publish and submit the Request for 19 Qualifications? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct. I just -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything further? 22 MR. BARTON: So, just wait and make the same 23 request at the next meeting? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Go ahead and prepare the 25 request, though. 6-27-05 50 1 MR. BARTON: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Prepare the request and 3 bring that, and we can approve the request, then. 4 MR. BARTON: Thank you very much. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further action or any 6 further discussion on that item? We'll move to Item 8, seek 7 authority of the Commissioners Court to pursue litigation 8 against contractors, architect, and engineer to resolve 9 construction deficiencies related to the Kerr County 10 Juvenile Facility new building. 11 MR. EMERSON: Thank you, Judge. I think I 12 need to bring the Commissioners Court up to speed on what 13 happened Thursday before we proceed. Originally started 14 researching this issue back on January 12th when I was 15 advised that there were construction issues related to the 16 facility. On January 31st, we sent out letters from the 17 County Attorney's office to the STR Contractors and DRG 18 Architects and Engineers, I guess it is. February 14th, the 19 second letter was went out. February 24th, a third letter 20 went out. March 31st, we sent out a certified letter to 21 STR, DRG, and Hallenberger Engineering at that point, and 22 the result of that was on April 27th, we basically conducted 23 an informal mediation and discussion of the construction 24 issues out at the Juvenile Detention Facility. Present were 25 all three parties, as well as Becky Harris, Wally Waliky, 6-27-05 51 1 the maintenance director for that facility, and myself. We 2 discussed the major issues, being the drainage, the A.D.A. 3 compliance, and the electrical supply to the lift station. 4 There were some commitments that were made at that meeting 5 that, it's my understanding from Ms. Harris, have not been 6 fulfilled to-date. 7 Now, I need to qualify with the fact late 8 last week, I received a call from Ms. Harris saying that 9 there were some gentlemen out there from STR looking at the 10 drainage again, so I don't know if they actually 11 accomplished any work or not on that issue, and have not 12 been able to talk with her since then. But the end result 13 is that we have three major construction issues, as well as 14 a number of minor issues that Ms. Harris presented to them 15 at that time that have not been resolved. Now, I don't want 16 to tell Commissioners Court that I'm going to run out and 17 file a lawsuit tomorrow, but I think at this point it's 18 important to have authorization of the Commissioners Court 19 to proceed with litigation if I don't get any further 20 response. I don't know if they're stonewalling us or 21 they're just incompetent or thoroughly confused, but we're 22 having communication problems, obviously. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Rex, help me 24 understand once again, how did this happen? Wasn't it in 25 the original specifications to build, this drainage issue 6-27-05 52 1 and the construction deficiencies and those kinds of things? 2 I mean -- 3 MR. EMERSON: The way the facility's laid out 4 on the drainage is that the sallyport between the old 5 detention facility and the new detention facility is 6 completely concreted, and there's a ballpark -- I don't 7 know, 10- or 12-foot elevation drop between those two 8 buildings. The problem that you run into is that there is 9 no levy or anything to deter the water. The concrete that's 10 in the sallyport is flat, from what I understand, and you 11 have a stairwell on the side of the second detention 12 facility that runs down to the bottom floor entrance to the 13 juvenile detention facility, so when it rains, all the water 14 runs off building one, goes across the concrete, combines 15 with the water flowing down the driveway, floods the 16 stairwell, and goes right into the second -- the bottom 17 floor of the new building. I'm not sure who designed that, 18 but... 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, to answer your 20 question, Commissioner, is that the -- part of the issues 21 are more architect, engineering of the layout, and part of 22 the issues are more contractor. I mean, like, the pump and 23 -- you know, I mean, there's multiple people possibly 24 responsible. Some of it may be, you know, what the 25 architect did or didn't do, engineers did or didn't do, or 6-27-05 53 1 the contractors did or didn't do. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I guess my real 3 question, though, is when the thing was built by the 4 Juvenile Board, didn't they have an overseer? 5 MR. EMERSON: The contracts that I've -- that 6 I was able to locate and reviewed basically said that DRG 7 Architects was going to supervise the construction on the 8 job. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. That's what 10 I'm looking for. 11 MR. EMERSON: Now, let me qualify that with 12 saying that this contract is probably 20 pages long, and 13 they have a clause in there where they're specifically 14 compensated for overseeing the construction, paying the 15 invoices, facilitating, I guess you could say, the general 16 contractor-type position, but at the same time, you go back 17 in the contract maybe 10 pages, and there's a couple of 18 paragraphs that absolve them of any liability for that 19 overseeing authority. So -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion to 21 authorize the County Attorney to pursue litigation against 22 contractors, architects, engineers to resolve construction 23 deficiencies related to the Kerr County Juvenile Facility 24 new building. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 6-27-05 54 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 2 approval of the agenda item. You mentioned that there was 3 some activity late last week in connection with trying to 4 resolve some of these things? 5 MR. EMERSON: With one portion of it, is my 6 understanding. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Would that happen to 8 have been after this agenda was posted? 9 MR. EMERSON: Yes, sir. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: I see. I think it might be in 11 order to -- for those that might have some responsibility to 12 be aware that litigation has been authorized. That might 13 facilitate these things getting resolved a bit quicker. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And if the County 15 Attorney deems litigation is not necessary, there's 16 certainly no need to pursue it. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I got a question. 18 Does this include -- or would this include hiring an outside 19 attorney? Or is this something that -- 20 MR. EMERSON: No, sir. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You'd handle -- 22 MR. EMERSON: We'll do it in-house. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 25 discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion, 6-27-05 55 1 signify by raising your right hand. 2 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 4 (No response.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, Rex. 7 MR. EMERSON: Thank y'all. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Item 9, if we 9 might. Consider, discuss, and approval of amendment to the 10 contract between Office of the Attorney General and Kerr 11 County. I placed this on the agenda at the request of the 12 District Clerk. Ms. Uecker? 13 MS. UECKER: Morning. What this is, is we're 14 already under contract with the A.G.'s office for services 15 that we provide for collection and state case registry 16 information on child support. We get a fee for every -- 17 every case that we put information on that goes to the 18 S.D.U., and we also get a fee for customer service if 19 someone calls in and says, you know, "I didn't get my child 20 support. What happened?" We get a fee for that, and all of 21 that's in the contract that we're currently under. All this 22 is is an extension to that contract. I'm one of the 23 district clerks that's on the Negotiations Committee that 24 we've been meeting in Austin, and this just extends the 25 current contract until September the 1st, I think, of 2006, 6-27-05 56 1 at which time hopefully we'll have some changes in the 2 contract. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What kind of changes? 4 More money for us? 5 MS. UECKER: It's just small stuff. Mostly 6 it's -- some of it is the fee. Of course, we're -- you 7 know, we're wanting more money, so that's in negotiations. 8 And also, some of the enforcement issues, domestic relations 9 offices, several different things. But for us, mostly it's 10 going to be the fee. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is this an annual 12 contract? Or -- 13 MS. UECKER: No, I think it's, like, a 14 four-year or two-year contract deal. Every now and then. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I'm -- 16 MS. UECKER: This just extends the current 17 contract. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for approval. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 21 approval. Any further question or discussion? All in favor 22 of that motion, signify by raising your right hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 6-27-05 57 1 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Next 2 item on the agenda is Item 10, consider and discuss 3 directing the Environmental Health Department Manager and 4 Floodplain Administrator to deny permits where there's a 5 violation of the Kerr County Subdivision Rules and 6 Regulations. Commissioner Letz? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I put this on the agenda 8 last time, and -- and was hoping that the County Attorney 9 had time to review this to see if this is something that 10 legally we can do. It just seemed to me that there is a way 11 to find illegal subdivisions and insure compliance if we can 12 place this -- direct Environmental Health and Floodplain not 13 to issue permits if there is a violation of our Subdivision 14 Rules and Regulations. Rex, have you had a chance -- 15 MR. EMERSON: Yes, sir. I have been -- in 16 fact, there's a written memo that went out real late; it's 17 in y'all's boxes somewhere. The essence of that is that I 18 talked to the T.C.E.Q. and talked to David Brooks also, and 19 reviewed Chapter 366 of the Health and Safety Code and 20 Chapter 285 of the Administrative Code, as well as A.G. 21 opinions and case law, and the bottom line is that it comes 22 down to the order that the Commissioners Court passed 23 verifying to T.C.E.Q. that they were going to regulate 24 O.S.S.F. regulations, including enforcement of Health and 25 Safety Code Chapter 366 and the Administrative Code Chapter 6-27-05 58 1 285. And Chapter 285, Section 4(c), specifically states, 2 and I quote, that, "Review of subdivision or development 3 plans. Before the permit process for individual OSSFs can 4 begin, persons proposing residential subdivisions, 5 manufactured housing..." and various other units shall 6 submit planning materials for their developments prior to 7 that. And, essentially, what that does is give 8 Commissioners Court authorization to reject the permits on 9 individual pieces of property that have not been properly 10 platted. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. How about 12 floodplain? 13 MR. EMERSON: I'm not through digging into 14 that. I found the state part. But, I mean, you have the 15 federal element. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I've got a question 18 and an observation. If the O.S.S.F. people or the 19 Floodplain people come to believe that a subdivision is 20 improper, hasn't gotten the required paperwork and 21 approvals, who's going to make that determination? Who's 22 going to say, "Yes, inspector, that's outside -- that's an 23 illegal subdivision"? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the County 25 Attorney. I mean, the flood -- I mean, our subdivision 6-27-05 59 1 rules are -- are fairly clear; we track state law as to what 2 is a subdivision. But I think someone needs to be able to 3 make that determination on the spot, and I think the County 4 Attorney's office is probably the best spot to go for a -- 5 'cause we don't want to -- I mean, it's going to delay the 6 process too long if it comes back to the court every time. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah, I like that. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So I think -- and, Rex, 9 does that -- I mean, is that all right with your office? 10 MR. EMERSON: That's fine. Historically, 11 what's been done is that anybody that had questions on 12 platting has gone to Road and Bridge, and they told them 13 real quick whether or not there was a plat or not in 14 existence, and then at that point it bounced to us. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, right. 16 MR. EMERSON: If there was a question. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That process will 18 still -- you can check with Road and Bridge or Jannett's 19 office if a subdivision plat exists on that tract, and if -- 20 then the question is as to whether -- and I think what 21 you're talking about more is the nuances, if a -- if a 22 platting was required for this, you know. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There's one in my 24 precinct recently that the guy came in and applied for a 25 septic system, and our administrator back there very wisely 6-27-05 60 1 asked him for a plat of the subdivision, and -- and I think 2 we all know there's not one that exists. So, it's -- it's 3 held up. And I think this is a tremendous tool to -- 4 actually, it's one of the only tools. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That was my comment 6 too, Commissioner. It's a good tool, and we ought to use 7 it. And I would caution both the Environmental Health 8 Department and the Floodplain Administrator to -- to 9 administer the rule expeditiously and not create a whole lot 10 more red tape; to do it in the most professional way and 11 least antagonistic way to help people come into compliance. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with that. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I'll -- since we do 15 not have a definitive answer on floodplain, I don't want to 16 pass an order that we may have to rescind, so I'll make a 17 motion that we direct the Environmental Health Department to 18 deny O.S.S.F. permits if there is a violation of Kerr County 19 Subdivision Rules and Regulations. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 22 -- to direct the Environmental Health Department to deny 23 permits where there's a violation of Kerr County Subdivision 24 Rules and Regulations. Any question or discussion on the 25 motion? 6-27-05 61 1 MR. ARREOLA: I have one, just for 2 clarification. So, if we believe there's an illegal 3 subdivision or no subdivision, do we contact Road and Bridge 4 or the attorney's office? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Contact Road and Bridge 6 to find out if it's in a subdivision. 7 MR. ARREOLA: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And if it's in a 9 subdivision, that will solve the question. If it's not in a 10 subdivision, go to Road and Bridge -- I mean go to the 11 County Attorney for -- 12 MR. ARREOLA: Basically, they will determine 13 for us if it's legal or not? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If it's a subdivision 15 based on our current rules. 16 MR. ARREOLA: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why would it go to -- 18 why would you go to the County Attorney? I mean, I don't 19 understand why you'd go to the County Attorney if he just 20 simply denies it and it's over. And then if you get in a 21 lawsuit, I can see going, just to let him know that 22 something's -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. I mean, if it's in 24 a -- if it comes up and it goes to Road and Bridge and it's 25 in a subdivision, and the plat is proper, I mean, it's 6-27-05 62 1 pretty clear whether or not it's proper. That's pretty 2 clean. But if it's an issue, like there are several in my 3 precinct that I think, you know, are currently going that I 4 think are -- personally think are illegal subdivisions, 5 though it's a little bit of a gray area. I think Miguel 6 should consult with the County Attorney first. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Should it have been 9 platted? And if the answer is yes, then it's denied. If 10 it's no -- 11 MR. ARREOLA: So, we're to hold the permit 12 until we determine if it's good or not? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 14 MR. ARREOLA: Then deny it if it's bad. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And it shouldn't -- I 16 mean, I think, as I understand your office right now, you 17 require a plat of the property right now. 18 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, sir. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So once you get that 20 plat, I mean, it shouldn't take very much time to determine 21 if it's in a subdivision. And, you know, you -- you have to 22 be somewhat familiar with the subdivision rules to know if 23 there's a potential question. 24 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, we basically have an idea. 25 We do get a lot of metes and bounds surveys. We would like 6-27-05 63 1 someone to determine if they were done right or not. So -- 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then that's -- the 3 burden of proof is on the developer. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: The applicant. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If there is a 6 developer at that point. You know, a lot of times these 7 things -- the developer comes in and cuts it up, whether by 8 metes and bounds or otherwise, and then sells everything, so 9 you have homeowners sitting there, you know. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Which we almost always 11 have that situation. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's going to be a 13 tough one. But -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I don't know -- you 15 know, and that's a -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But it's the burden -- 17 the burden of proof is not necessarily on the County that it 18 is an illegal -- yeah, I guess it is. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the -- I think 20 what happens is, in this situation, I think Miguel is in 21 that -- he has to deny the permit if it's an illegal 22 subdivision. The people may ask Miguel or may ask one of us 23 to bring it to court for determination, and we may go ahead 24 and allow the O.S.S.F. to go in, but then we know that 25 there's an illegal subdivision there; we can go after the 6-27-05 64 1 developer. I don't see that we would -- you know, in my 2 mind, that we would use this to stop someone from building a 3 house. I see it as finding that this individual bought in 4 an illegal subdivision, and someone's going to rectify that 5 situation, whether it's the property owner or developer. 6 It's a way to get more information. I don't see it as a 7 tool to prevent construction. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 10 discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion, 11 signify by raising your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Kathy, could you put this 17 on the next agenda for Floodplain Administrator? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move to Item 11. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Take a break. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Huh? 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I need to take a 22 break. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. We'll break until 24 about 10:30. We'll stand in recess till 10:30. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thank you. 6-27-05 65 1 (Recess taken from 10:15 a.m. to 10:30 a.m.) 2 - - - - - - - - - - 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's come back to 4 order, if we might. We were in recess for a few minutes. 5 We'll go to Item Number 11, consider and discuss a contract 6 for Rabies and Animal Control between the County and the 7 City of Kerrville. Commissioner Nicholson? 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. The first -- 9 first thing I want to remind you of is under Tab 6 in your 10 books, that back on January 28th, we notified the City that 11 we intended to renegotiate the contract for Rabies and 12 Animal Control, and I now have a contract for you to 13 consider. But first, under Tab 1, I've outlined three 14 potential options for our relationship with the City, and 15 one of them would obviously be that we continue the -- in 16 sharing the costs that's now paid 60 percent by the County 17 and 40 percent by the City. And I'm -- these estimates you 18 see there are -- well, they'll just give you some idea of 19 the scope of it. I didn't know exactly what the cost would 20 be for 2005-'6. Obviously, we haven't approved the budget 21 yet, but it will be something in the order of $132,000 cost 22 to the County. Or we could do a formula-based split of the 23 costs. That would be based on the amount of the activity, 24 how much activity is done in the city, how much activity is 25 done outside the city. And that would be approximately 6-27-05 66 1 60 percent to be paid by the City and 40 percent by the 2 County, which would essentially be a flip-flop of the 3 agreement we've had in place for several years. And then 4 the third option would be no contract with Kerrville, and, 5 of course, our costs would be higher than the 40/60 split, 6 but they wouldn't be much higher than they are now. I've 7 talked to the Interim City Manager and specifically asked 8 him a question of whether or not the City intended to 9 continue the contract with the County for those services, 10 and he said he thought that the City did desire that. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Seems to me that, I mean, 12 option two is where we should be. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You know. Maybe -- you 15 know, I don't know if it's exactly 60/40, if that's the way 16 we should do the split. It seems -- it certainly is -- you 17 know, I can't see going any different than 50/50. 60/40 -- 18 or 40/60 seems to be equitable, and we seem to be trying to 19 get equitable treatment with all contracts, so I think 20 that's the direction that -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Base it on usage. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Base it on usage, and 23 that's what it should be. So, I mean, 40/60 seems to be the 24 way to go, in my mind. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's what I'm 6-27-05 67 1 thinking, too. When we get to the contract, you'll see that 2 -- that we are proposing that we discontinue the service of 3 picking up dead animals in the -- in the city of Kerrville. 4 Currently, the dead animals in the county are picked up 5 either by TexDOT or Road and Bridge Department. There are a 6 few exceptions to that. I think if Janie is out on patrol 7 and she is in a neighborhood where she hears a radio call 8 that there's a dead animal that needs to be picked up in 9 Center Point or Hunt or wherever, she'll call in and say 10 that she'll pick it up. So, she does pick up a few in the 11 county, but that's -- that's not her duty. Dead animals in 12 the -- picking up dead animals in the city is a burden on 13 us, and also there are implications of the health hazards it 14 presents to our -- to live animals that we handle. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, on that point, 16 this is kind of going back in line with what we're doing in 17 some of the other city contracts. I would recommend that if 18 they want us to do that service, that they pay 100 percent 19 of that cost, and they pay -- I mean, it would take an 20 additional, you know, vehicle or some way to -- you know, 21 to -- offer to them to do it, but they're going to have to 22 pay it. I think it's the -- the biggest concern I have is 23 the safety of the animals, the issue of having dead animals 24 and live animals in the same vehicle. So, if they want us 25 to pick up dead animals, then they need to pay for 100 6-27-05 68 1 percent of the costs for a vehicle, and that vehicle will be 2 used for dead animals. I think the cost is going to be such 3 that I can't imagine they're going to want to go that route, 4 but at least it gives them the option. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: There's one other 6 thing to consider on it besides the -- the potential impact 7 on the live animals we pick up. I don't much like it that 8 our Animal Control officers, by themselves, have to lift a 9 125-pound axis buck or 200-pound axis buck. I've just about 10 quit hunting because I don't like to lift the deer 11 carcasses. And I think you saw the picture in the paper of 12 Janie with a white-tailed deer in the truck, so -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, but she can 14 handle it. You and I couldn't. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Better than I can. 16 But in addition to the other issues, that's another one. 17 It's time-consuming, it's difficult, and it presents some -- 18 we would rather -- Janie and I would rather not pick them 19 up. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I understand that, but 21 I'm saying if the City -- as a negotiating point, if they're 22 wanting -- you know, maybe it means additional manpower. 23 Maybe it means additional -- it could be part-time 24 personnel. If there's a question about they want us to do 25 that service, we can develop a cost to do that, but it's not 6-27-05 69 1 part of picking up live animals. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We need to be 3 flexible, yes. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If we choose to 5 discontinue that, how do you see the City handling the dead 6 animals? 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Street Department, 8 like our Road and Bridge. That would be my -- 9 MS. ROMAN: I do know that in years past, the 10 Street Department did pick up dead animals, and I know that 11 'cause my husband worked for the Street Department for 10 12 years. Somehow along the way, it just kind of got passed 13 over to Animal Control, but I don't see that as part of 14 Animal Control. Our -- our main objective is rabies and 15 animal control. A dead deer doesn't fall under that. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's more of a 17 safety -- health and safety. 18 MS. ROMAN: Exactly. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The City has a Health and 20 Safety Department. 21 MS. ROMAN: We don't have the equipment or 22 manpower, really, to -- to do that. I -- Friday, I picked 23 up a dead deer that was infested with ticks. That poses a 24 threat to us, and to my officers also. But my main thing is 25 that we -- we don't, a lot of times, have time to thoroughly 6-27-05 70 1 disinfect our -- you know, our vehicles when we're so 2 swamped with calls. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the logical way 4 is to use the Street Department, I would agree. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Janie, do you see -- I 6 mean, you see your function based on the Rabies Control Act, 7 then? 8 MS. ROMAN: Correct. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not just a -- the old 10 dogcatcher or get rid of animals type thing. It's based on 11 a -- a specific law? 12 MS. ROMAN: Correct. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 14 MS. ROMAN: You know, I mean -- 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And court order. 16 MS. ROMAN: Correct. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Our order for animal 18 control, leash law, that sort of thing. I have -- Tab 3 has 19 a proposed contract. The County Attorney has reviewed the 20 contract. I've probably tinkered with it a little bit since 21 then, so another review would be in order. The changes that 22 I'm proposing come primarily under Paragraph 1, Purpose, and 23 it says we enforce the Rabies Control Act and we enforce the 24 animal regulations, the court ordinances of the city, except 25 it excludes four -- four parts of that code I'll talk about 6-27-05 71 1 in a little bit. The third change there is, it does not 2 include the enforcement of picking up dead animals. And 3 then Part C is just a catch-all that says we -- we enforce 4 state laws on Health and Safety Code. And the exclusion of 5 Section (c) 7, 8, 9, and 10 has to do with not enforcing 6 parts of the city code that deal with rabbits, chickens and 7 other fowl. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That was a fowl 9 statement. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes. Domestic 11 pigeons and livestock. And these -- these parts of the city 12 code deal with their requirements for the number of domestic 13 fowl that you can keep on the premises, specification for 14 construction of chicken houses, building permits, fence 15 construction, those sort of things. So I wanted to -- we 16 have not been enforcing those, but the statement in the 17 previous contract was overly broad, and it might imply that 18 we would -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- enforce those. 21 And the other thing that got me on this is we have seen 22 probably going back a year, I think, Janie, a draft of the 23 proposed new city code on animals, and it's a lot more 24 restrictive and detailed than their current code. And there 25 are parts of that, if they -- should they approve that, 6-27-05 72 1 there are parts of that we wouldn't want to be involved in 2 enforcement. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The comment -- go ahead. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just let me ask a real 5 quick question. Where can I find Section (c)? 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: In the current -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's on the 9 unnumbered page between Page 1161 and 1167. Section (c), 10 titled "Care and Keeping of Animals." 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Under Tab 3? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tab -- 13 JUDGE TINLEY: 5. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: 5. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tab 5. Bingo. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The page just before 17 Page 1167. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, thank you. 19 That's all I needed. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The comment or questions 21 I had go to -- it's your Paragraph 4, Annual Extensions. I 22 think that it's a -- you know, every so often, there ought 23 to be a requirement that -- not just annual extensions; that 24 maybe every four years or five years, a certain period of 25 time, that you have to really look at the contract again. I 6-27-05 73 1 think we should be doing that every year. But just as kind 2 of a -- some language that it has to come before the City 3 Council and the Commissioners Court, the contract does, 4 every so often. I think we did that with the Airport Board 5 contract and some of these others, just so -- that way, we 6 don't get way out of balance, as we have with some current 7 contracts with the City. So, I just think that -- 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Do you remember what 9 the airport language says? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, I don't. I think 11 it's every five years, it has to come back before -- before 12 the two bodies for a formal vote. It doesn't -- you know, 13 other than that it just annually extends itself 14 automatically. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We'll take a look at 16 that language and decide whether to include that in. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the other item is 18 under item -- or Paragraph 7, and this contract says that 19 we'll submit the budget by July 1. I think the next 20 contract we're going to look at with the library says 21 July 15th. The airport says June 30th, though they've 22 requested an extension that I -- well, if I have my say, 23 it'll be denied as to when that will be submitted to the 24 County -- or the Airport Board. I think we need to 25 standardize. I think those need to -- all budgets need to 6-27-05 74 1 be submitted on the same date, and I would say June 1st. I 2 think that we're -- what is happening time and again is that 3 these contracts are coming in and these -- we're getting 4 these budgets so late in our budget process that it's almost 5 meaningless. Airport, I'm really hot about that one, 6 because it's a huge dollar figure this year, and, you know, 7 they want to just put it off till almost the end of July. I 8 just think we need to put in a number or a date that's 9 realistic in every one of these contracts, and stick to it. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with you, sir. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I don't -- whether 12 it's, you know, June 15th, June 1st, June 30th, those, to 13 me, are the dates that I would go with for all of them. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Your airport contract 15 is June 30? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. And June 30th is 17 fine for me. It's basically the same as July 1st, I mean, 18 but I just think that that gives -- that should -- I mean, 19 certainly, the County and the City should be far enough 20 along in the budget process by June 30th of any year to have 21 a budget -- a proposed budget. And there can always be some 22 modifications later in the process, but at least you have 23 something to work from, so I'd go with the June 30th date. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I agree with you, 25 and I also agree that I'd like to see some consistency in 6-27-05 75 1 approach between the various contracts. If there's a best 2 way to do things, then we ought to be following that best 3 way. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. Other than that, 5 I think it looks fine. And, you know, having said that, 6 have we submitted our budget -- proposed budget on Animal 7 Control to the City yet? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I'd furnished the -- the 9 historical information that we had available to us back in, 10 I think, early May. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Couple months ago at 12 least. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Maybe late April. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But did it include a 15 proposed budget? 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think that what we 18 need to start doing in future years, I think we, you know, 19 deal with these entities as much as we can first. I mean, I 20 don't know how you do it, 'cause there's some things that 21 are done late in the process, such as salary adjustments, 22 but at least you could have a -- a proposed or an 23 anticipated budget, assuming some actuals, and give the 24 other entity a pretty good heads-up as to where we're going 25 to be. 6-27-05 76 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, if we're going 2 to do it by June 30th, the proposed budget should be these 3 dollars, plus it may go up because there are, you know, some 4 caveats. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Personnel. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: This is about what 8 it's going to be, but it could be different. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 'Cause I can -- and it's 10 a proposed budget at that point. I mean, I'm certainly -- 11 both entities, when they start doing their budget, they may 12 have to say, "That proposed budget won't work this year" for 13 some reason. That's how I look at it. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, I'll make a 15 motion that we approve this proposed contract, making 16 changes to Paragraph 4 on annual extensions to -- to require 17 some periodic reapproval by both bodies, on the order of -- 18 similar to what's in the airport contract, and that on Part 19 7a, we change budget submission date from July 1 to -- 20 June 30? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. And that 23 we'll authorize the County Judge to communicate this 24 contract offer to the City, and the offer would be for a 25 sharing of expenses with the City paying 60 percent of the 6-27-05 77 1 budget and the County paying 40 percent. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that language -- I'll 3 second. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Does that include the 5 dead animal issue? 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah, it's -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: It's in the contract. It 9 excludes that. Okay, motion made and seconded for 10 submission of the proposed contract to the City of Kerrville 11 as specified in the motion. Any further question or 12 discussion? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. Under Paragraph 6, 14 under Consideration, it seems to imply, the way it's 15 currently written, that there's a fixed amount put in there. 16 Should we not put that -- the break of the 40/60 percent in 17 this paragraph, and then fill in that blank as well? 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes. So, I'll amend 19 that motion to -- under Paragraph 6, to include the proposed 20 60 percent City, 40 percent County formula, and then the 21 dollar amount would be one-twelfth of their 60 percent. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I accept that 23 amendment. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further discussion? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And I accept it as 6-27-05 78 1 well. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Pleased to know that. All in 3 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good work, 9 Commissioner. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thank you, sir. 11 MS. PIEPER: Does this need to be reworded 12 before it's signed by the Judge? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move to Item 12, 15 consider and discuss the Butt-Holdsworth Memorial Library 16 contract between the County and the City of Kerrville. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Before we get into 18 the details of the contract, I want to share with you some 19 of the learnings I've had about the future of the library. 20 And what I found is that brick-and-mortar libraries are 21 becoming obsolete. That is to say, libraries as we know 22 them now are becoming obsolete. Just as the advent of the 23 interstate highway system and low-cost air fares made 24 obsolete passenger trains back a half a century ago, the 25 internet highway and low-cost computers are beginning to 6-27-05 79 1 make libraries obsolete. It's no longer necessary to go to 2 a public library for research or to get information. For 3 many people, that information is available at home on their 4 personal computer, online. 5 We have seen that people who are nostalgic 6 about passenger trains have persuaded governments to spend 7 billions of dollars to keep a few of them in operation, and 8 I think that we will see that people who love libraries or 9 who opt not to join the information age will deny the trend 10 of library obsolescence and will persuade governments to 11 either maintain or expand these relics at taxpayers' 12 expense. Libraries resist the trend toward library 13 obsolescence in the same way that conductors and train 14 engineers did 50 years ago, and for the same reasons. 15 Libraries will try novel approaches to attract patrons who 16 no longer need the library for the traditional research and 17 literary pursuits. Libraries will come to resemble internet 18 cafes, video arcades, day care centers, and homeless 19 shelters. 20 Our library's -- our library's experimented 21 with schemes to slow the obsolescence curve. An 22 ill-conceived program to deliver books to the hinterland -- 23 Center Point, Ingram, Mountain Home -- was tried about a 24 year or year and a half ago, and it failed within three 25 months. And my calculations indicate it probably cost more 6-27-05 80 1 than $100 to deliver each book during that period, and cost 2 the taxpayers thousands of dollars. We can see now that 3 the -- the movement away from libraries for research and 4 literary purposes is -- our library's experiencing the dark 5 side of the undesirable element in our community. It has 6 seen pornography stashed in children's books, other crimes 7 committed on the premises, and patronage by the homeless 8 seeking respite from the weather. All of this suggests that 9 this Commissioners Court should consider the future of the 10 library and its utility to citizens when making decisions 11 about investing tax dollars in the library in the future. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a comment. And 13 I share some of those sentiments, but not all. I think the 14 -- you know, I think that there is certainly a change in the 15 role of libraries. I think that there will always be a need 16 for libraries in all communities, and this community; 17 however, I think the need is going to -- is going to change. 18 And I think one of the things that I really commend 19 Commissioner Nicholson for is kind of really looking at the 20 whole library picture, and I think it needs to be looked at 21 in this county. We currently have the Butt-Holdsworth 22 Library, and I think there's a public library of some sort 23 in Ingram, I've been told, which I believe is run through 24 the school in Ingram. Tivy has a library. Center Point has 25 a library in the schools. One right across the county line; 6-27-05 81 1 there's a public library in Comfort and a library at the 2 high school and other schools, and then there's a library at 3 Schreiner University. I do not see the need for that many 4 libraries. I think there can be a consolidation, a working 5 together. 6 I think there is a need to have a place where 7 people can get books and read. I think there's a -- you 8 know, a very good system has been developed nationwide and 9 statewide of loaning books. You know, University of Texas 10 and A & M, they'll send their books out to virtually any 11 library around. You know, there's other shared contracts 12 and agreements with San Antonio and other big cities. So I 13 think, you know, there's a need to have a place where people 14 can go get a book and read, but I don't know that we need 15 six libraries in Kerr County. I really think that there's 16 some efficiencies that could be gained, and I would really 17 like to ask, through Commissioner Nicholson, that the 18 Library Advisory Board seriously look at consolidating use 19 to the public of Schreiner University, Butt-Holdsworth, and 20 the school district libraries. I think that that's where 21 I'd like to see us go. And I think that -- I think it's 22 already being done to a large extent. I think that all of 23 those entities are somewhat open to the public, and yet at 24 the same time we have librarians and administrators in each 25 one of those libraries, and I don't know that that's 6-27-05 82 1 efficient. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I agree with 3 everything you said. We need to -- we need to get a 4 thorough analysis of the opportunities for doing things 5 differently and better. And the -- and the Library Board, 6 particularly as reconstituted, is the right place to do it. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, I think the 8 Library Board is. And, you know, I think the mayor, at our 9 last meeting, brought up the possibility of a library 10 district, and that may be, you know, a way to fund it. And 11 it may be a way to help the taxpayers and the schools, the 12 city, the county, and also be able to work with the 13 university. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I used to use the 15 memorial library quite a bit. Because of my computer now, I 16 hardly ever go over there. I mean, I -- I read three or 17 four, five newspapers a day, and I can do it all right there 18 online now. And -- but when I did go over there, they 19 were -- absolutely excellent care, professionalism. They 20 were very professional. But I keep hearing -- when this 21 conversation comes up in my small circles, I keep hearing 22 the word "Schreiner University Library," and I've always 23 wondered, are they -- does the university -- are they closed 24 to the public or are they open to public use? And in that 25 conversation, people talk about the quality of library it 6-27-05 83 1 is. It's supposedly -- I've never been; I couldn't tell 2 you where -- I did good to find Schreiner University the 3 other night. But that it -- that it's absolutely 4 up-to-date, and they take excellent care of it, and all 5 the documents in there are up-to-date, and it's just 6 supposed to be an excellent facility. And I've always 7 wondered about that, if -- and it kind of piggybacks on what 8 Commissioner Letz was saying, you know, having -- of course, 9 we can't control Schreiner College or the high school 10 libraries and those kinds of things. We have just somewhat 11 -- not very much control, but we have one vote over the 12 Butt-Holdsworth Memorial. But I agree with what y'all have 13 said. You know, there's -- the use of libraries is kind of 14 a downhill issue, and we sure have a lot of them here. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To answer part of your 16 question, based on a conversation I had with President 17 Summerlin at Schreiner University -- I probably shouldn't 18 quote the number, and I hope the press won't quote me on it, 19 but I believe somewhere around 40 percent of the usage of 20 Schreiner library is from the public, so I know that they -- 21 the public does use that library and is allowed to use that 22 library. And I -- and it's a substantial usage. And while 23 we don't -- to go back to another statement you made, we -- 24 you're correct, we certainly don't control anything at 25 Schreiner University or the school districts. And sometimes 6-27-05 84 1 we wonder if we control anything at Butt-Holdsworth, but 2 there are things called interlocal agreements where we can 3 certainly, you know, have an influence on those other 4 libraries if both parties are in -- so choose. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, if -- you know, 6 if our taxpayers are using another library, you know, y'all 7 can help me. I mean, don't forget, I grew up out in Hunt. 8 I don't think real clear sometimes. But if our public is 9 using one library and we're putting "X" amount of dollars in 10 another library, how -- how does that make sense? It 11 doesn't. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Have -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So where are we with 14 -- how much do we fund -- what is our share with the funding 15 with the Butt-Holdsworth Memorial Library? 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: My recollection, 17 Commissioner, last year we were asked to fund something like 18 415,000, 408,000. Something over four. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: 400,000. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And we funded less 21 than that. Seems like we funded 385 or something like that. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: $385,000 a year. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And, you know, costs 24 of everything's going up. I would not be surprised to get 25 a -- a library budget -- operating budget that would be on 6-27-05 85 1 the order of $900,000 this year. And there is some thinking 2 going on in the community about enlarging the library. 3 Y'all have seen some preliminary architectural plans for 4 that. I wanted to say a little bit more about the internet, 5 and I don't want to try to pretend that I'm an internet and 6 computer guru; I just barely get around on it. But like 7 Commissioner Baldwin, I can do an awful lot of research and 8 reading on the internet. In fact, I get the New York Times 9 delivered to me by e-mail every morning. Don't read it, but 10 get it delivered to me. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're probably the 12 only guy on your block that gets it. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I wish they'd put it 14 out front so people would think I was literate. (Laughter.) 15 I've gotten into a lot of libraries around the country and 16 was amazed at how much I could do on the internet. And, 17 speaking of the university libraries, it has been a -- a 18 necessity for universities to have a top-notch library. 19 That's got -- that was the way the quality of the school was 20 measured -- one of the ways. I don't know whether -- how 21 important it was, but at least it was perceived to be 22 important, and I wonder if that's going to continue. I 23 talked to one of my professor friends and I said, "Are 24 students using laptops?" And he said, "Every one of them 25 has a laptop." They come to class, they set their laptop 6-27-05 86 1 down, open it up, and they even take the class notes on 2 the -- on the word processing part of it. So, I don't know 3 how long this -- this library obsolescence curve is. It 4 could be much longer than I think it is, or it could -- it 5 could snowball and happen very fast. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Commissioner, I want to 7 go back a little bit to the contract, and as I -- I don't 8 know where I got it, but somewhere I received a copy of a 9 contract between the City and the County from 1991, which I 10 believe is the current contract. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I put it in your 12 box. I think that is the current contract. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question for you. 14 Paragraph 5p says on or before April 15th of each year, 15 beginning April 15th, 1991, the Library Director and 16 representative of the County Commissioners Court, who shall 17 be designated by the Court before that date, shall meet and 18 review the financial statement of the library and identify 19 budgetary needs and discuss proposed library budget for the 20 following fiscal year. Did that take place? 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Partly. You -- 22 before April 15th, you authorized me to be the County's 23 liaison, or somewhere around in there you did. Sometime 24 after that, I wrote the Library Director and said, "I'm 25 ready to get with you and carry out this part of the 6-27-05 87 1 contract so we can submit a budget to the respective bodies 2 by July 1st, as required by the contract." And I got -- I 3 didn't get a response. Judge Tinley got a response from the 4 City that said, "We're not going to do that." 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Next paragraph 6 says that we'll receive the proposed budget by July 1st. 7 Are you aware if the City's going to meet that obligation? 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm not. In last 9 Tuesday's -- mind you, we had offered to get together and 10 develop a contract -- a budget. At last Tuesday's meeting, 11 the Library Director did pass out that 40-, 50-page document 12 that they prepare every year, and described it as the 13 proposed, but not approved, budget. And in talking to the 14 City Manager, I understand that they had a workshop 15 scheduled -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tomorrow. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- tomorrow, and 18 that will be one of the things on their workshop. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. I guess, you know, 20 this goes back, you know, for -- only reason I brought these 21 two points up is that, you know, we've got to come up with a 22 standardized way, and both sides have to live up to their 23 obligations. We cannot continue to have terms and contracts 24 that are just unilaterally ignored by either of the parties. 25 And I'm not saying the City's the only one that ignores some 6-27-05 88 1 of these provisions; we may have done so as well. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We have. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think that, you 4 know, just because we're a governmental entity doesn't mean 5 we should not follow the contract that we've signed with 6 another governmental entity. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You've got a -- a 8 pretty simple contract that, again, I prepared, and the 9 County Attorney reviewed it and made some changes in it, and 10 I've tinkered with it since then, so we'll -- we'll need the 11 County Attorney to look at it again. Directionally, what 12 I've done here is tried to take the approach that has been 13 fairly successful, I think, that the Airport Board took, and 14 that is to give the Library Board more responsibility and 15 more authority. So, in Paragraph 4 there, we actually 16 create a new library board, and we make it a nine-member 17 board. As is the case with most boards, staggered terms of 18 employment, and five members shall be appointed by the 19 County and four by the City. This recognizes that the 20 county represents all 45,000 people in Kerr County and taxes 21 them annually in Kerr County, and that City Council 22 represents 22,000 or so and taxes them. And it also -- 23 instead of having -- what's the term for nonvoting members? 24 "Nonvoting members," I guess. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Liaisons. 6-27-05 89 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Or ex-officio. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ex-officio. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That the County and 4 the City Council will each appoint a regular member of 5 the -- of the newly created library operations. And then in 6 Paragraph 5, that the Library Director shall report to the 7 Library Board. Which is, again, directionally where you're 8 going with the airport, but you haven't completely gotten 9 there yet. And then -- I wish Commissioner Williams could 10 be here, because, as you know, he's done a lot of thinking 11 about the contract and found a lot of difficulties with it, 12 and I'm -- these proposals are based on his findings, too. 13 He wrote a pretty thorough report a year or so ago and gave 14 it to the then-County Attorney, and part of the concerns 15 have been that capital expenses and maybe other operating 16 expenses get rolled into the budget that -- that we did not 17 intend to pay -- pay for. And so I tried here in Paragraph 18 6 to make it clear that neither capital expenses for the 19 library nor operating or capital expenses for ancillary 20 facilities shall be included in the budget. What I mean is, 21 I think I've found we're probably paying costs of the 22 genealogy part and the history -- whatever it's called. I 23 think county library employees -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are doing the work over 25 there. 6-27-05 90 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- are working over 2 there. But we need a nice, clean library contract that 3 deals with the public library only. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm in favor totally of 5 the concept actually of doing something, you know, basically 6 along the lines of what we did at the airport. I think that 7 the -- and just a -- you know, what worked at the airport, 8 and what worked with the City in negotiating that contract, 9 as opposed to both the City and the County having to approve 10 the members. That eliminated the issue of the City appoints 11 some and the County appoints some, and they're kind of 12 opposed. It's that they're jointly -- you know, one may 13 be -- the City may recommend three and the County may 14 recommend three, but the other can, quote, veto if they so 15 choose, so that both entities agree on the membership of 16 that board. And that kind of gets rid of any 17 confrontational-type issue. 18 The -- the other issue, and we went round and 19 round on it, the Library Director, of course, reports to the 20 Library Board. In practice, you get into a real problem 21 with that if the City is going to be the manager of the -- 22 and the employee has to report to somebody. And you end up 23 with a contractor-type relationship as to who's going to be 24 the contractor to operate the library, as we did at the 25 airport. At the present time, it's set up to be -- or the 6-27-05 91 1 City is the contractor, and the City's basically the 2 contractor of the library. And because of that setup, the 3 manager of the airport reports to the City Manager, and I 4 would suspect that the manager of the library would also 5 need to report to the City Manager. So -- because they have 6 to be an employee somewhere for benefit reasons and other 7 reasons. You know, and then the Airport Board works with 8 the City Manager if there's a problem, and the Library Board 9 likewise can work with the, you know, City Manager. So, I 10 mean, I think that the -- you could use almost exactly the 11 same concept as we used at the airport to handle the 12 library, and you've done almost that in what you've proposed 13 here. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Perhaps Paragraph 4 15 really gets us to where I'd like to see us be, where it says 16 that the Library Board provides oversight of the library 17 operations. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, how about if we 20 scratch Item 5 and just leave it as -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. I think that's -- 22 I think you -- I think that that's an issue as to how you 23 contract to get that work done. You can get bogged down on 24 that, and it's not real -- you know. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No. 6-27-05 92 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The purpose here is to 2 basically get the library run by a library board. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Now, in what is the 4 current Paragraph 7, which will become Paragraph 6, rather 5 than commit to a formula-based payment, I've just said that 6 we'll make -- we'll pay an amount approved by budget 7 approved by the Commissioners Court in 12 monthly 8 installments. That amount could be 50 percent of the total 9 cost, or it could be something different. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the date in Paragraph 11 6, I'd like to go to a June 30th date as well. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think this is a good -- 14 you know, it's more that -- it really isn't a contract at 15 this point; I think it's more a conceptual direction, and 16 any contract has to probably have a lot more in it. But I 17 think that as a -- you know, I think it would be great for 18 to us get this to the City and see what their view is, see 19 if they're willing to directionally go in this direction. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Consistent with the 21 discussions we had on the Animal Control contract and -- and 22 the discussions there, should not Paragraph 8 be changed to 23 provide for annual approval also? Rather than automatic 24 renewal? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or whatever the -- every 6-27-05 93 1 so often, it has to be a vote to -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Five years or whatever. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: But consistent with the other 5 agreements, whatever that term would be. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think this is -- 8 directionally, I'd like to see us go in that direction, and 9 I think this is a -- you need to relay that to the City. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I'd like to 11 see -- I'd like to know a little bit more about Mayor Fine's 12 thinking on a library district, what that is. Is it like 13 the emergency service district, where the public votes to 14 put a tax of some sort? I mean, how -- do you know, Judge? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I do not. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How that works? If 17 it -- I'd just like to see that stay on the table, because 18 there may be something there that is more attractive than 19 even -- even this kind of thing of us paying money out of 20 the -- directly out of the taxpayers' coffers here. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think we need to 22 know more about that and pursue it. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, that's what I 24 mean. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's my 6-27-05 94 1 understanding it takes an act of Legislature. You can 2 handle that for us. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you want it today? 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The first question 5 I've got about it is, if we do one of those, are the Board 6 of Supervisors, Board of Directors, whatever it is, are they 7 elected or appointed? In my limited experience in 8 government, appointed directors don't serve the taxpayers as 9 well as elected directors. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that the -- I 11 mean, the way I look at it is, I'd like to pursue this now, 12 to get a -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. We have -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- board that operates 15 it. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We have to do that. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And then this board would 18 also be charged -- whoever we put on it would be charged 19 with looking at the Schreiner University issue, looking at 20 the taxes -- I mean the library district. But I don't think 21 we're going to progress real far when we have -- I'm not 22 throwing stones at Antonio, our Library Manager, you know, 23 but he's the manager of it. We need an oversight that's 24 going to look at it outside of the box, and I think a board 25 will do that, and can look -- you know, can visit with 6-27-05 95 1 Schreiner, can visit with the schools, can look at 2 legislation. May be required to put together a library 3 district. And I think until we get a board in place that 4 has some authority, you can't get any of those things 5 accomplished, really. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That'll take an 7 election, and we -- that may be a good idea, and I would bet 8 it's a year or two off after some study. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think this can be 10 worked on relatively soon, and I think, you know, if it's 11 generally modeled after the airport contract, there's really 12 no reason that it can't be done relatively quickly, 'cause 13 it's a similar situation. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'll make a motion 15 that we approve this contract with the following changes: 16 In Paragraph 4, we'll provide that both the City Council and 17 Commissioners Court will approve the membership of the 18 Library Board, deleting the language about appointments, and 19 Paragraph 5 will be deleted. The other three will be 20 renumbered. In the new Paragraph 5, the "on or before 21 July 15th of each year," that will become June 30th of each 22 year, beginning June 30th, 2006, et cetera. And then in the 23 old Paragraph 8, now Paragraph 7, we'll add that same 24 language that we're going to do in Animal Control, that 25 requires some periodic reapproval, as opposed to just 6-27-05 96 1 continuous rollover. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would second it if it's 3 termed a -- a proposed agreement, as opposed to a contract. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Good. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And it would 7 authorize the County Judge to communicate the proposed 8 agreement to the City of Kerrville. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll second that. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 11 indicated. Any question or discussion on the motion? All 12 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good work, 18 Commissioner. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thank you, sir. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Appreciate your efforts, 21 Commissioner Nicholson. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Give you something to 23 talk about tomorrow in the day-long retreat over at the 24 City. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If they let him in. 6-27-05 97 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I don't mean -- 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No, the Judge is 3 going to carry it over there. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Hopefully you'll get these to 5 me in a manner that I can maybe get them over to the folks 6 at the City today? 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Have we got in the 8 office -- I'm sure we've got a copy of the airport contract. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So I can lift that 11 language out. Yeah, I'll try to get it to you today, Judge. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I appreciate it. Item 13, 13 consider and discuss approval of resolution favoring or 14 opposing speed limit increase. I put this on the agenda. 15 Initially, during the regular session of the Legislature, I 16 got a call from Representative Hilderbran's office inquiring 17 about a proposed -- the impact or position of Kerr County on 18 a proposed increase in the speed limit on Interstate 10 that 19 passes through Kerr County. As I'm sure most of you know, 20 there was a proposal to increase it to 75. There's some 21 areas out west of here that actually have a 75 mile-an-hour 22 speed limit in the daytime on I-10. The representative was 23 merely asking what my thoughts on it were, and I indicated 24 from a personal standpoint that I was concerned that we were 25 on a break point with traffic density that -- especially 6-27-05 98 1 going from Kerrville east, and the traffic density 2 increasing as you go towards San Antonio, I had a concern 3 about increasing the speed limit because of safety. As you 4 go west, it might be something to -- to consider, but that 5 generally from a county-wide standpoint, I was concerned 6 about the safety issue. 7 I thought that was the end of it. After the 8 session was over, and actually, I think, before they were 9 called back into special session, I was contacted again by 10 the representative's office, and was -- was asked to place 11 this matter before the Court. I'm not aware that it's on 12 the governor's call for special session, but I was asked to 13 do it, and here it is. And the resolution that is attached 14 is sample only. You'll note that it is from Sutton County, 15 way to the west, and that is in opposition to a -- a speed 16 limit increase. Certainly, there's probably lower traffic 17 density in Sutton County than there is in Kerr County. But 18 the agenda item was couched so that the Court could fall on 19 either side of the line, wherever it wishes to fall. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I -- I have 21 always been concerned with the fact that you come down 22 Interstate 10 -- and I can't remember how far out west it 23 goes, but if you're coming from that way into here, it's -- 24 you're driving along Interstate 10 running 75, and it turns 25 into 70 at, I think, the Kerr County line. That's hard to 6-27-05 99 1 pay attention to. But I've -- my big concern's always been, 2 from a professional point of view, is the interstate highway 3 designed to handle 75 miles an hour? And so I had a visit 4 with a -- a retired resident engineer that -- I won't name 5 him, 'cause there are more than one in this county. And he 6 assured me that he was comfortable with the fact that 7 Interstate 10 was, in fact, designed to handle 75, or maybe 8 even more. So, I'm comfortable with -- you know, if -- I 9 mean, I'm not sure this is really an issue, but if -- if I'm 10 asked to vote on this issue, I would certainly vote to 11 encourage them to raise the speed limit to 75 miles an hour 12 in Kerr County on Interstate 10. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm a little -- 14 "confused" may not be the right language. All we're doing 15 would be a resolution one way or the other, but it seems to 16 me that TexDOT has a pretty firm policy that seems to work 17 fairly well as to where the -- what they put their speed 18 limits at. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And, I mean, I know 21 trying to get them to change a speed limit darn near takes 22 an act of Legislature just to get it changed in a little 23 section somewhere, so I really think they're the 24 professionals, and I'd rather let them decide what the speed 25 limit is. If they think the state speed limit's 75, it's 6-27-05 100 1 75. I mean, you know, if they think it's 55, it's 55. I 2 mean, I -- you know. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Clay, what do law 4 enforcement agencies think about 80 mile-an-hour speed 5 limits? 6 MR. BARTON: Commissioner, I don't want to 7 speak for all law enforcement agencies. In fact, I'll just 8 speak for myself. I have no problem with the 75 9 mile-an-hour speed limit, except I do want to qualify that 10 and let y'all know that we're working accidents on the 11 interstate from about, oh, the Gillespie County line back in 12 toward Kerrville where you've got the Goat Creek Road exit 13 and you have that big hill and dropoff at Goat Creek Road. 14 Sometimes it takes us multiple units to stage and get back 15 down the interstate to slow traffic down when we're having 16 to push them down to one lane, because even at 70 miles an 17 hour, they come around a curve and they're on top of you 18 real quickly. So, if you boost them up to 75 miles an hour, 19 when they're coming around these curves -- and a lot of that 20 area west of here, they come around curves and they're on 21 top of you. We have to station people quite a ways back to 22 start letting people start slowing down, sort of let them 23 know we're going to have one lane, or -- and that's my only 24 concern about just saying the whole county, let's raise it 25 up to 75. I think that there are areas of the county -- I 6-27-05 101 1 can't speak for the construction of the interstate, whether 2 or not it can handle it, but just looking at other factors 3 besides that, basically just traffic control would be an 4 issue that I would -- that I would have. 'Cause we have to 5 be able to slow people down when we do have an accident in 6 order to -- to work the accident safely. Other than that, I 7 have no opposition to the increase in the speed limit. I 8 just think there's certain areas that may not be as safe as 9 it is in other areas. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's kind of what I'm 11 saying. I feel it's a TexDOT decision. I think west Kerr 12 County, 75 is very appropriate, but I think when you get -- 13 like Clay said, pretty much from Goat Creek east, I'm not 14 sure 70 isn't too fast. There's a lot of big hills and 15 corners, and there's huge numbers of accidents in that 16 segment between, basically, Cypress Creek Hill and Goat 17 Creek, or -- yeah, Goat Creek. So, I mean, I think it's 18 a -- I'm much more comfortable letting TexDOT decide what 19 the speed limit should be, as opposed to letting the 20 Legislature. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, can they make 22 that kind of decision without legislation, though? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, I don't -- I don't 24 believe they can. I think the current -- the one that 25 raised it out west, they have to be so far from a -- you 6-27-05 102 1 have to be a certain population minimum or something like 2 that. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: There's a rural designation 4 that they came up with, and in a rural area, they've 5 authorized it to go to 75. But -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, I mean, that's a -- 7 but, I mean, as someone who just drove all the way across 8 west Texas a couple weeks ago, there are areas out there 9 where it's 55 on a road. You know, taking the road that 10 goes from 285 -- from Fort Stockton to up to Pecos, it's 55 11 in parts of that road and 75 on parts of that road. I mean, 12 so I don't know what that -- I mean, I'd personally be in 13 favor to let -- statewide, let it be 75 if that's what 14 TexDOT thinks a safe speed is. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I want to ask -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where did he go? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Are you directing the chief 18 deputy to go round him up? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Don't let him run off, 20 Clay. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I want to ask 22 Commissioner Baldwin, does your support for our speed limits 23 have anything to do with your driving record over the past 24 couple years? (Laughter.) 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I'll have to be 6-27-05 103 1 honest. He's gone? 2 MR. BARTON: He may be across the hall. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. Well, the way 4 I understand it, I certainly wouldn't support this 5 resolution that's in our packet here. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: That was sample only. I don't 7 know that we're required to do anything. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're probably not. I 9 don't think it's an issue, to be honest with you. Like you 10 said, I don't think the governor's going to call 75 mile-an 11 hour-speed limits in Kerr County. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't think it made it on 13 the call. I don't think the cheerleader issue made it on 14 the call either. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He might catch a little 16 bit of heat from the public if he was to put this over 17 school finance and some other issues. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. So, 19 actually, it's really a moot issue, but it's over. Good 20 night. 21 MS. HARDIN: One question. When you change 22 the speed limit on state roads, then it regulates what the 23 county speed limit rules are? We -- we recently had one 24 come to mind that if it was not posted on a county rural 25 road, that that speed limit on that road was 60. So, does 6-27-05 104 1 this affect -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think -- 3 MS. HARDIN: -- rural roads in any way? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I think that if 5 it does, I think you -- the counties could easily pass a -- 6 an order that says the max speed limit on any county road is 7 55 or 60 or whatever. I think the counties have the 8 authority to -- 9 MS. HARDIN: Maybe that might be something to 10 look at. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. And it may not be 12 a bad idea -- I can't think of any county road that the 13 speed limit's over 55. That I'm aware of, anyway. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Should we let Commissioner 15 Baldwin go try them out? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Commissioner Baldwin's 17 driven all these roads. Can you imagine a 55 speed limit -- 18 or higher than 55 on any county road? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 20 MS. HARDIN: Well, the one in question was in 21 your precinct. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I still can't imagine 23 it. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything further to 25 offer on that agenda item? Let's move on. Any member of 6-27-05 105 1 the Court have anything to go into executive session about? 2 Okay, hearing nothing -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Gerard, good to see 4 you. 5 MR. MACCROSSAN: You too. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are you here full-time? 7 MR. MACCROSSAN: No, we got another guy 8 starting next week, so he may be here. I'm not sure. I'll 9 be sitting here temporarily, at least. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Glad to have you. 11 MR. MACCROSSAN: We'll see how nice y'all 12 treat me. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, hang around. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How nice we treat him? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I was pretty nice just 17 then. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's get to the 19 approval agenda, if we might. Number one, payment of the 20 bills. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge? I'd like to 22 make a motion. I move that we pay the bills. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and second for 25 payment of the bills. Any question or discussion? Let me 6-27-05 106 1 come to item -- or Page 10. Under Environmental Health, 2 we've got a full-service oil change for $26, and under 3 Rabies and Animal Control we have the same thing to a 4 different vendor for $55. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Maybe it's a 6 four-cylinder vehicle versus a V-8. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, it'd likely have to be a 8 diesel for Rabies and Animal Control. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Could it be two 10 vehicles? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I suppose it could be. 12 I guess my point is, we probably need to -- if we're going 13 to have outside -- outside vendors for things that are 14 common services, we may want to make sure that we're getting 15 the best deal and taking advantage of it. That's the whole 16 point, I guess. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We don't even have the 18 bills. That makes me want to go eat. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: They're down at the 20 Treasurer's office, I guess. They just didn't bring them up 21 here. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Crude oil opened at 23 $60.25 or something like that this morning. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Over 60. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, over 60 this 6-27-05 107 1 morning. I think it's -- that's a good point. I think -- I 2 was looking to see -- Clay, of course, left when I needed 3 him finally. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He's looking for 5 Tucker. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't know if the 7 Sheriff's Department -- the amount of oil changes they make 8 push this over to where we should be bidding, probably, 9 anyway, or not. Or put it out for bid. Road and Bridge 10 obviously does their own. I say obviously; I think they do 11 it in-house. But it would be a service that it may be 12 worthwhile going out for bid on, maybe a couple different 13 vendors. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or, once again, add a 15 stall and an employee out at the Road and Bridge and do 16 county vehicles, like a unit system is supposed to. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: That would be another option. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it would be, 19 yeah. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We've only talked 21 about that every year for the last 20 years. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: I just came to the party late, 23 huh? All right. One other question on Page 14, the 24 drainage ditches on Sheppard Rees. And we don't have 25 anybody from Road and Bridge here. I assume that's where 6-27-05 108 1 the -- some of those very steep inclines, where the edges 2 were -- were being eroded by the high velocity of the water 3 coming down and taking the base out and undermining the -- 4 the edge of the asphalt? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm sure that's part 6 of it. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I had some -- some residents 8 out there indicate to me a concern -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: -- not too long after that 11 project was completed, and I think there was initially a -- 12 a partial repair that was attempted by Road and Bridge, and 13 apparently that -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, the contractor 15 came back and did a bunch of repair, and then Road and 16 Bridge came back and did some more repair, or upgrading. 17 I'm really not sure what this is, to be honest with you. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But I'm sure it's 20 related to you. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I suspect it would be. Okay, 22 that's all I have. Any further question or discussion? All 23 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6-27-05 109 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Budget 3 amendments. Budget Amendment Request Number 1. 4 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 1 is for Indigent 5 Health Care. I'm requesting that we increase the budget by 6 $1,571.05. It's for the expenditures for a third-party 7 administrator. I have bills in-hand for -- for that 8 service. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is this amount to the 10 administrator for administration, or is it paying claims? 11 MR. TOMLINSON: No, it's for administration. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: For administration. And 13 the amount's just -- how do we do that contract? 14 Percentage? Or -- 15 MR. TOMLINSON: It's four and a half percent 16 of the eligible claims that they process. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, what you're telling 18 me is that our indigent health care is ahead of schedule? 19 MR. TOMLINSON: It's getting there. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: I really expect to have to 22 increase the budget for -- for claims before the end of the 23 year. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tommy, just a second. 6-27-05 110 1 Tommy, Fund 50, do you declare an emergency with that? 2 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: That's part of your motion? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, it is. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to 7 declare an emergency and approve Budget Amendment Request 8 Number 1. Any further question or discussion? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just a comment. We don't 10 have any choice, do we? 11 MR. TOMLINSON: This is a contractual 12 agreement. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, we don't have any 14 choice in cutting off indigent health care. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: No, we don't. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: I think the current -- the 17 current state statute prescribes up to 8 percent of the 18 total budget. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: Right. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just wanted to get that 21 on the record. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 23 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 24 your right hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6-27-05 111 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Did you want a hand check on 4 that also? 5 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay, Budget Amendment 7 Request Number 2. 8 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. Number 2 is from the 9 County Attorney's office. The request is to transfer $400 10 from Books, Publications, and Dues to Postage. I -- along 11 with that, I need a hand check for $600 payable to Kerrville 12 Postmaster. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 16 approval of Budget Amendment Request Number 2 and issuance 17 of hand check for 600 -- $600? 18 MR. TOMLINSON: $400. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: $400 to the Kerrville 20 Postmaster. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: No, I'm sorry. The 22 amendment's for four. The check's for six. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Hand check for $600 to U.S. 24 Postmaster. 25 MR. TOMLINSON: That's right. 6-27-05 112 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 2 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 3 your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Budget 8 Amendment Request Number 3. 9 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 3 is from the County 10 Clerk to transfer $2,000 from Software Maintenance to 11 Postage. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move to approve. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 15 approval of Budget Amendment Request Number 3. Any question 16 or discussion? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is two postages 18 in a row. I guess we better take a closer look at that in 19 the budget. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All in favor, signify by 21 raising your right hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Budget 6-27-05 113 1 Amendment Request Number 4. 2 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 4 is for Barbara 3 Nemec, County Treasurer, to transfer $282.69 from 4 Conferences to Office Supplies. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 6 MR. TOMLINSON: It's actually -- this is 7 payroll checks. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Pay for what? 9 MR. TOMLINSON: Payroll checks. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 12 approval of Budget Amendment Request Number 4. Any question 13 or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 14 raising your right hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Budget 19 Amendment Request Number 5. 20 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 5 is from the 216th 21 District Court to transfer $53 from Special Trials to Court 22 Transcripts. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move to approve. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 6-27-05 114 1 approval of Budget Amendment Request Number 5. Any 2 questions or discussion? All in favor of the motion, 3 signify by raising your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Budget 8 Amendment Request Number 6. 9 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 6 is from the District 10 Clerk, Linda Uecker. She's requesting a transfer of $201.84 11 from Capital Outlay and $1,429.36 from Part-Time Salaries. 12 She's requesting $797.21 to go into Microfilm Records, $500 13 Miscellaneous, and $105 into Software Maintenance, and 14 $228.99 into Operating Equipment. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move to approve. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 17 MR. TOMLINSON: I do also -- I need a hand 18 check payable to Kerrville Daily Times for $107.95. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The motion includes 20 the hand check. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So does the second. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 23 approval of Budget Amendment Request Number 6 and issuance 24 of hand check to Kerrville Daily Times in the sum of 25 $107.95. 6-27-05 115 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tommy, what does the 2 hundred and -- what does the Kerrville Daily Times -- where 3 do they come in this? 4 MR. TOMLINSON: It's for a publication that 5 the Court had -- the District Court had done in the paper. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, that's that 7 miscellaneous issue. 8 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 10 MR. TOMLINSON: There's more to come from 11 that issue. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 13 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 14 your right hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Budget 19 Amendment Request Number 7. 20 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 7 is for the jail, for 21 the Sheriff to transfer $63.14 from FICA Expenses to Radio 22 Repairs. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved -- second. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 6-27-05 116 1 approval of Budget Amendment Request Number 7. Any question 2 or discussion? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question. Tommy, why 4 does the Sheriff always have to submit two pages that say 5 the same thing? 6 MR. TOMLINSON: We ask him to sign a copy, 7 and we just always attach his signature copy to the one that 8 we do. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, why do y'all do 10 one? I just -- I mean, I don't understand why we have -- it 11 appears that his is faxed in. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: It's faxed. Sometimes it's 13 hard to read. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, you can't read 15 it. 16 MS. PIEPER: Sixes look like eights lots of 17 times, so it's easier for me if I can get the original plus 18 the faxed copy. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Look at the signature. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, couldn't the 21 Sheriff get these in on time so we don't have to fax them? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's my question. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess it just -- it's a 24 small thing, but it seems like we're wasting a lot of paper. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You have 48 deputies, 6-27-05 117 1 48 cars, 48 radios, 48 radars, 48 everything coming in and 2 out of this courthouse all day long every day, and they 3 can't hand-deliver one piece of paper, with a signature that 4 you can't read. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Does it look like 6 we're going to have more budgeted for FICA expense than he 7 needs? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: No. 10 MR. TOMLINSON: That's generally the rule. 11 And for the jail, there's so much turnover, and -- and the 12 fact that, historically, we have never been 100 percent 13 staffed. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: We budget for staffing for 16 100 percent, and in reality, that's generally not the case. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There's another one. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any further question or 19 discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion, 20 signify by raising your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Budget 25 Amendment Request Number 8. 6-27-05 118 1 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 8 is from Road and 2 Bridge, and this amendment is the projected amount for fuel 3 for the remainder of the budget year. So, their -- their 4 recommendation is to transfer $29,000 from Contract Fees 5 into Fuel and Oil. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 9 approval of Budget Amendment Request Number 8. Any question 10 or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 11 raising your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Do we 16 have any late bills? 17 MR. TOMLINSON: I have two. Both -- both of 18 them are payable to Gazelle Computers. One's for $900, 19 service agreement, and the other one is for $750 for service 20 agreement for May. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 24 approval of late bills, and I assume issuance of hand 25 checks? 6-27-05 119 1 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: In the amounts of $900 and 3 $750, both payable to Gazelle Computers? 4 MR. TOMLINSON: Correct. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Any question or discussion? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Question. Did -- did 7 the guru sign off on it? 8 MR. TOMLINSON: We got it from him. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, that settled 10 that. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 12 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 13 your right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: I've not been presented with 18 any monthly reports. Do we have any reports from any of the 19 Commissioners in their liaison assignments? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. You know, we 21 tried to set a -- an EMS workshop -- City/County EMS, and 22 that fell through due to scheduling over at the city. And I 23 think that we have landed on a good date. You all should be 24 notified by now, I think, but Wednesday, July 13th, at 25 9 a.m. in here will be the EMS workshop. 6-27-05 120 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On that -- comment on 2 that, and kind of an additional -- it appears that these -- 3 we're closer to an agreement with Kendall County. 4 MR. BARTON: Oh, good. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To working out handling a 6 portion of eastern Kerr County as primary responder, which 7 we should be able to take into consideration in this 8 contract. And as part of that, I've tossed on the table for 9 Kendall County a $5,000 fee that we'll pay to Kendall County 10 to do this, which is basically a per-run -- it's, you know, 11 kind of tied to a per -- number of calls that Kerrville EMS 12 is currently making to that area. So, that appears like 13 that's going to go through finally. And an interesting 14 thing that came out of that conversation was that Kendall 15 County contracts as the backup with a private company, and 16 that private company also does a lot of their transports. I 17 don't know -- the name of the company is Southern Cross, who 18 has an office in Kendall County. Might be interesting to 19 visit with them, 'cause I believe City of Kerrville, under 20 the Kerrville EMS contract, they do a lot of transports to 21 San Antonio and elsewhere. Might be a lot more 22 cost-efficient for us and the City to sub that out to 23 Southern Cross or some other private entity. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I think that may 25 be some of the bread and butter for the City, those that 6-27-05 121 1 transfer. They've said that in our hearing before. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the better-paid portion 3 of what they do? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Pretty good haul. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Seems like I've heard that. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, it's a -- I haven't 7 looked -- I mean, I'm not sure how it breaks out, but it 8 also means ambulances aren't available, and also it's 9 increasing personnel. I wonder if they're looking at the 10 full cost of what it costs to do those transports and the 11 personnel, the management and number of ambulances and where 12 all the ambulances are and all that. It's interesting that 13 Kendall County has an approach -- they have far fewer 14 ambulances. Of course, it's a much smaller county, granted, 15 but that they've opted to use a backup that's a private 16 company. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If it were me, that's 18 the way I would do it. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, anyway, in our -- as 20 our EMS liaison, I thought I would bring you up to date on 21 this issue. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Commissioner Letz, 23 you're so wise, and I appreciate you so much. Now can we go 24 eat? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sure. 6-27-05 122 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Good work. Good work. 2 Anything else on those reports? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's not done yet. We're 4 getting close. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Talk to him about that. Okay. 6 Anything from elected officials? Department heads? 7 Anything else? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Summer's upon us; 100 9 degrees this week. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: We stand adjourned. 11 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 11:47 a.m.) 12 - - - - - - - - - - 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 6-27-05 123 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 5 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 6 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 7 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 1st day of July, 2005. 8 9 10 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 11 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 12 Certified Shorthand Reporter 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 6-27-05