1 2 3 4 5 6 7 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 8 E.S.D. Workshop 9 Wednesday, August 17, 2005 10 1:30 p.m. 11 Commissioners' Courtroom 12 Kerr County Courthouse 13 Kerrville, Texas 14 15 16 17 18 EMERGENCY SERVICES DISTRICTS 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 DAVE NICHOLSON, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 On Wednesday, August 17, 2005, at 1:30 p.m., a workshop 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in the 3 Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville, 4 Texas, and the following proceedings were had in open court: 5 P R O C E E D I N G S 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's come back to 7 order, if we might. We have scheduled for 1:30 this 8 afternoon, Wednesday, August 17th, 2005, an emergency 9 service district workshop. It's past 1:30 now. 10 Commissioner Baldwin, you get the honors. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you so much. 12 Before we get into the -- the actual presentation, I wanted 13 to say thanks to Michael Earney, Sheriff's Office, and 14 Sheriff Hierholzer for loaning us their equipment to make 15 the presentation on. We appreciate it, guys. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We didn't loan it; 17 you'll get the bill. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Well, send to 19 it Ron Derrick. And I've asked -- if you remember, when we 20 first started talking about the ESD, when Mountain Home put 21 theirs in place, they had a state agency fellow come out and 22 make the presentation. Everybody was real, real impressed 23 with him, so I contacted the agency and visited with them 24 about that, and they no longer do those things because 25 they're not -- they don't have the money to go out into the 8-17-05 wk 3 1 field and make presentations any more, he said. But 2 they're -- the Executive Director told me that there is good 3 news; that the Legislature authorized the agency to do that 4 again, to have the ability now to go back out into the field 5 and make presentations, but they did not give them any money 6 to do it. So -- so, we're stuck with me and Ron. And so 7 Ron Derrick, as most of you know, has -- has done a couple 8 of these, made these presentations with this particular 9 information, and it's -- I think it's probably going to be 10 basic information. And what I wanted to see today after -- 11 after this basic information is provided to you, that if we 12 can -- if there's really some interest at this table, and if 13 there is some interest, then we can come back at a later 14 time and do some more actual detailed -- and we will do it 15 many times, I'm sure. There's a lot of things to this. But 16 I think it's a worthwhile -- let's see, is the press here? 17 I don't know how far I can go and talk -- there's one. Let 18 the record reflect that Commissioner Letz is four minutes 19 late. (Laughter.) 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And missed your 21 speech. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, and missed the 23 whole speech. So, Ron has provided me -- or provided us 24 with some paper here. I know you guys haven't seen any 25 paper in the last few days. Pass that around, please, 8-17-05 wk 4 1 Commissioner. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And what it is, is 4 this -- the actual slide will be on your left, and it's hard 5 to read, but you can read it here. And then if you have 6 questions or comments, there's a place for you to write on 7 the right side. So, Ron, do you want to come on up? And -- 8 MR. DERRICK: Sure. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- start the 10 presentation, please. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Ron, say who you 12 are. 13 MR. DERRICK: Sure. My name is Ron Derrick. 14 I am a citizen of Kerr County, and my background is, I 15 started with Kerrville Fire Department in 1985. I worked 15 16 years for the Kerrville Fire Department, put together the 17 EMS system that you presently have now. I was in charge of 18 the EMS system under Raymond Holloway from '93 through 2000, 19 and at that time I took a position in Fredericksburg, 20 Gillespie County, as their Director of Emergency Services. 21 This past May, I resigned my position at that and retired. 22 Not retired as you might think that I'm playing golf every 23 day. I just chose to retire. I've been in response for 23 24 years, and I decided to start going more of the 25 preparedness/emergency management avenue rather than 8-17-05 wk 5 1 carrying a pager, going out to wrecks at 3 o'clock in the 2 morning. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's a good 4 resumé. 5 MR. DERRICK: 'Cause my family -- my family 6 changed, 'cause I've got twins now, and they're young. So 7 -- so, anyway, that's -- that's where I'm at today. We 8 recently moved back to Kerr County. Always interested in 9 what goes on. Especially, if an ambulance was to come out 10 to my house, I want to know who it's coming from. And so I 11 gave this same presentation to the City Council of 12 Fredericksburg and the Commissioners of Gillespie County. 13 City Council was fully behind it. The Commissioners did not 14 like it one -- one bit, so that was their -- their thing, so 15 we didn't do it in Gillespie County. So, what I want to 16 tell you is emergency services districts -- and we'll go 17 through it, and there are 35 slides, but I'm going to go 18 through them pretty quick. 19 The thing about it is, it isn't going to fix 20 your EMS situation. I want that clear out front, that this 21 isn't a way to fix your relationship with the City of -- of 22 Kerrville. And forgive me if I say "City of Fredericksburg" 23 in there somewhere, 'cause that's what I'm used to saying. 24 I had to do the same thing when I went over there; this 25 ain't Kerrville no more. Anyway, this isn't going to fix 8-17-05 wk 6 1 your situation, but what it does do is it gives you an 2 avenue to raise funds through taxes, through several 3 different avenues of taxes, to pay for it. And what's nice 4 about the whole situation is, it doesn't take control away 5 from y'all, but what it does is it relieves the County 6 Commissioners of the problem areas that you have with 7 your -- with your situation with the City. And when you 8 form an ESD, the City deals, you know, with the ESD 9 commissioners to contract for fire, for EMS, and for -- 10 we'll talk a little bit about a county fire marshal and what 11 an ESD can do there also. It's right at the very end; it's 12 kind of intriguing what you can do there, but it deals with 13 those people. 14 And it's going to turn also to the -- we'll 15 talk a little bit about the ESD's that are already in place; 16 i.e., Ingram and Mountain Home, and it's going to turn into 17 -- if you decide this, that the ESD that we're talking about 18 forming forms around those areas. It doesn't encompass 19 those areas. Those areas would not be dissolved. Those 20 commissioners would still be in charge of that area, and -- 21 and this isn't a big brother type of thing. It's not -- 22 it's just you have ESD's in Kerr County, ESD Number 1, 23 Number 2, and you would possibly develop Kerr County ESD 24 Number 3. So, I'll go ahead and get into this information 25 and -- and tell you about it as we go on, and please ask 8-17-05 wk 7 1 questions. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You need to hit the 3 lights? 4 MR. DERRICK: I don't know if y'all want to 5 see it way back there. I don't know if you can see it. 6 Basically, emergency services districts, and actually rural 7 fire districts, actually started back in the '80's. It 8 wasn't until recently -- and it's through the Texas 9 Constitution and the 70th Legislature in 1987, they actually 10 formed rural fire districts. They have since changed that, 11 and effective September 1, 2003, all rural fire prevention 12 districts are to be converted to emergency services 13 districts. So, the biggest change here, besides the name, 14 was your rural fire districts specifically dealt with fire; 15 that was it. Emergency services districts now deal with 16 fire, EMS, and fire prevention. The -- also, what it did 17 was, under the emergency -- I mean, the rural fire 18 protection district -- prevention districts, you could only 19 go up to 3 cents per $100 valuation for taxes, for revenue 20 source. With the establishment of an emergency services 21 district, that has now increased up to 10 percent -- I mean 22 10 cents on every $100 valuation, since they encompassed 23 more emergency services. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ron, stop there. I've 25 got a question. You may or may not know the answer to this. 8-17-05 wk 8 1 Ingram was created as a fire district. Fire district. 2 MR. DERRICK: Mm-hmm. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do they have the 4 capability to -- to do the EMS side at this -- 5 MR. DERRICK: Absolutely. They are not 6 considered -- Ingram is not considered a rural fire district 7 any more. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So it's -- 9 MR. DERRICK: Emergency services district, 10 automatically. September 1, they were automatically 11 converted. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 13 MR. DERRICK: Thus giving them the 14 opportunity to go from three up -- all the way somewhere in 15 between -- all the way up to 10 now. Mountain Home's the 16 same way. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They could 18 automatically add emergency ambulance services, whatever? 19 MR. DERRICK: By vote. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: By vote. 21 MR. DERRICK: And we'll get into that. 22 Everything you're going to hear is going to be by vote. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Got you. 24 MR. DERRICK: Of people in that district. 25 ESD's are political subdivisions established by the local 8-17-05 wk 9 1 voters strictly for the purposes of raising money, and they 2 contract with the emergency services. So, if you 3 established an emergency services district in the rest of 4 Kerr County, that board would contract with the City of 5 Kerrville for ambulance services, and for your fire services 6 that y'all now contract. It wouldn't be Kerr County 7 contracting with the City; it would be the emergency 8 services district contracting with the City. So, it 9 wouldn't be Kerr County paying the City; it would be the 10 emergency services district paying the City. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And they could also 12 contract with the existing or future volunteer fire 13 departments. 14 MR. DERRICK: Absolutely. Or they could 15 contract with a private provider. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 17 MR. DERRICK: They can contract with whoever 18 they -- they want. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can they start -- can 20 they create -- 21 MR. DERRICK: Or they can create their own, 22 absolutely. Or they can -- they can create their own. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They could join with 25 us in creating a county-wide -- 8-17-05 wk 10 1 MR. DERRICK: Absolutely. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So you could have a 3 county-wide emergency -- fire and EMS or EMS only, or you 4 can split it up either way you want. 5 MR. DERRICK: Right, you could. Absolutely. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You're probably 7 going to get to this, but we've got two of these, and you're 8 saying -- and they've already been created by election. 9 MR. DERRICK: Yes, sir. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And you're saying 11 what we could do is create the rest of the county outside of 12 the city limits as another one. Is there other options 13 there? In some part of the county, if Kerrville South or 14 somebody -- Hunt didn't want in, could they -- could their 15 vote be taken separately? Or is everybody outside the 16 Mountain Home and Ingram -- 17 MR. DERRICK: It depends on how you set it 18 up, Commissioner. It depends on how the petition is 19 written. We'll get into the petition here in a little bit. 20 It depends on how that is written. If you are going -- if 21 the petition that is brought to the County Judge 22 specifically states the area, and there'll have to be a 23 legal description of the Hunt area; all the area of Kerr 24 County except this legal description of the Hunt area. Or, 25 if you'd like, you can do Hunt, ESD Number 3; Kerrville 8-17-05 wk 11 1 South, ESD Number 4. You can do separate ones. You don't 2 have to do one all together. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: There's options. 4 MR. DERRICK: But, yes, you can exclude them, 5 but you have to do it in the original petition, and it has 6 to be a legal description of the boundary. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But they would vote as 8 well? 9 MR. DERRICK: Yes. Now, if they were 10 included in on the whole rest of the county, then the whole 11 rest of the county is voting for their area also. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 13 MR. DERRICK: Okay. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Would it necessarily exclude 15 incorporated areas within the county? 16 MR. DERRICK: It excludes incorporated areas, 17 but -- and you'll see here in a little bit, you're going -- 18 and this is -- this is kind of a kicker. You're going to 19 have to get permission from the City of Kerrville to use 20 their ETJ. That -- that is -- 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What if they joined 22 with us in -- 23 MR. DERRICK: Oh, absolutely. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- at the very 25 beginning? 8-17-05 wk 12 1 MR. DERRICK: If the City of Kerrville wants 2 to join also, then you just include the municipality, and 3 the whole county votes. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Got you. 5 MR. DERRICK: And then the tax is levied to 6 the whole -- to all taxpayers, including city -- city of 7 Kerrville residents. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 9 MR. DERRICK: But if they don't want to do 10 that and they want to be excluded, you have to get written 11 permission from them for their -- for inclusion of their 12 ETJ, or if they want to sit on it for six months, it's 13 automatically approved. If they don't want to do any vote 14 at all and they've had the petition for six months, it's -- 15 by law, it's automatically approved for you to use their 16 ETJ. Hold on, let me go back one. Also -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ron, go back to that ETJ. 18 Assuming the City said no, you can't have the ETJ, and you 19 said several times they have to have a legal description. 20 MR. DERRICK: Mm-hmm. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is a legal description 22 sufficient to say you're 1 mile beyond the site, or does 23 that have to go a metes-and-bounds description of the entire 24 ETJ? 25 MR. DERRICK: That's a question I'm going to 8-17-05 wk 13 1 have to get answered, Jon. I don't -- I don't know that 2 specifically, of what legal description to use. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 'Cause the cost for the 4 second is huge. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. I think in 6 the case of Mountain Home, it was not metes and bounds. It 7 was from this road to that place and that kind of a 8 description. 9 MR. DERRICK: It may be. I just know it has 10 to be a legal description. You can't say from Old Man 11 Johnson's place, we're going to go down the creek to -- you 12 know. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, okay. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But if we -- if we 15 decided that we were going to use the ETJ line by metes and 16 bounds or what -- however you do it, the ETJ line, and then 17 we adopt this thing, and then a few years down the road, the 18 ETJ jumps out there, what happens with that? So you're in a 19 brand-new ETJ, then. 20 MR. DERRICK: Right. The City then will 21 petition the ESD. If they -- if they want that, then they 22 have to petition the ESD, and there has -- there is a 23 compensation factor for that also. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's interesting. 25 MR. DERRICK: I wasn't going to get into all 8-17-05 wk 14 1 the specifics, but in the city limits -- say you take it all 2 the way up to the Kerrville city limits, and at some time 3 they annex into your ESD area, they petition the district. 4 The district, I'm pretty sure, by law has to give it to 5 them, but there's a compensation package with it from the 6 City to the ESD. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let me ask you all; 8 currently, the City has not provided any of these services 9 to the ETJ. Are they -- 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: They are? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. Well, I mean, the 14 EMS -- they're doing it under our contract with them. 15 They're not doing it on their own. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: But they run fire 17 protection. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Under our $200,000 19 contract. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay, I got you. 21 MR. DERRICK: Under the stipulations of the 22 contract, too. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 24 MR. DERRICK: I mean, the contract -- correct 25 me if I'm wrong -- says they'll roll one truck, and that's 8-17-05 wk 15 1 all we do, is roll with one truck. And, of course, they'll 2 roll the ambulance to that area, but by contract only. 3 Commissioner Letz is right. Just to let you know, also, 4 it's ad valorem taxes, but you can also use sales tax. 5 Buster and I talked about this, that if you so desire -- or 6 a combination of both of them. If you so desired, "Hey, 7 let's let some of the visitors pay for this stuff," you can. 8 Go ahead, Buster. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Bill's got a report on 10 that. 11 MR. DERRICK: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That presupposes that 13 the sales tax is not maxed out. 14 MR. DERRICK: Absolutely. Absolutely. You 15 have a max. You still can't go above that max. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The City of Kerrville 17 takes 6 plus 2, and they're already there, so you can't land 18 another tax on top of that. 19 MR. DERRICK: So you can't lay a tax inside 20 the city. I don't know where the County is. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: County may be 22 different. 23 MR. DERRICK: Yeah, right. You're still -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We have half a point. 25 MR. DERRICK: -- legally bound to your 8-17-05 wk 16 1 maximums. That's a real good point. And we've talked about 2 a lot of this already. On the -- on the ESD's, for counties 3 less than 2.4 million people, which this falls under, of 4 course, it's up to 10 cents per $100 evaluation. You'll 5 find that throughout the -- there's 137 ESD's in the state 6 right now. You'll find -- like, the ESD's over in Travis 7 County, they have 14 ESD's in Travis County; every one of 8 them are maxed out. And you'll see, boy, they got some nice 9 equipment and things over there, but, boy, the people are 10 really paying high dollar. You'll see the majority -- the 11 average in the state is running right at 4.6, something like 12 that, cents. A lot of them are 2 and 3, a lot of them are 6 13 and 7, and then some of them go for the max. What they say 14 you need to do -- and also, as far as the sales tax is 15 concerned, you have the ability to use up to one-half cent 16 sales tax to fund the ESD, as long as the local tax isn't 17 capped out. 18 You'll find the way they say you're supposed 19 to do this is you're -- you're supposed to find out how much 20 money you're really going to need to run the services you 21 have, how much the EMS is going to cost you in this area, in 22 the area we're talking about, and how much the fire is going 23 to cost you in that area, and any other administrative 24 things that you're going to pay for, and then apply that to 25 your -- your taxing property, your property that's taxed. 8-17-05 wk 17 1 And then see where you need to go as far as the money is 2 concerned. That's designed, of course, to protect life 3 through the provision of emergency rescue and ambulance 4 services and fire services. 5 Basically, what happens is there's a 6 petition. Before a district located wholly in one county 7 may be created, the County Judge of that county must receive 8 a petition of 100 qualified voters in that area that you're 9 taking in as an ESD. The petition must contain an agreement 10 from two petitioners that obligates them to 150 bucks for 11 formation of the district, including the cost of notices, 12 election costs and things like that. So, basically, the way 13 it gets started is a petition by 100 voters in that area, 14 and $150. That comes to the County Judge. Before a 15 district can be created that contains territory in a 16 municipality's limits or extraterritorial jurisdiction, a 17 written request to be included in the district must be 18 presented to the municipality's governing body after the 19 petition is filed. So, in other words, you have to file the 20 petition with the City if you want to use their ETJ. If the 21 governing body refuses or fails to act on the petition 22 within six months after the date which a petition submitted 23 is received, the governing body's refusal or failure to act 24 constitutes automatic consent for the territory. 25 If the petition is in proper form, the County 8-17-05 wk 18 1 Judge receives the petition. At the next regular or special 2 session of the Commissioners Court after the petition is 3 filed with the County Clerk, the Commissioners Court shall 4 set a place, date, and time for a public hearing. I tried 5 to see how many public hearings you got to have; did not see 6 anything about multiple. So, time and place is set for the 7 hearing. The Commissioners Court shall consider the 8 petition. People get to say their piece, just as they 9 normally would. The Commissioners Court has exclusive 10 jurisdiction to determine each issue relating to the 11 creation of the district, including any matters negotiated 12 with a consenting municipality, being the City of Kerrville. 13 If everything's in order, Commissioners Court like it, and 14 it shows that it will promote the public safety, welfare, 15 health, and convenience of persons residing in the proposed 16 district, the Commissioners Court shall grant the petition, 17 fix the district boundaries, and impose any conditions 18 negotiated under this section. What has to be done 19 originally is, in the original petition, you're going to 20 have -- these people have to figure out how -- what the tax 21 rate is going to be also, 'cause the tax rate has to be 22 known before the vote. The original tax rate. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So they've got -- 24 under the act, they have the authority to go up to 25 10 percent. Are you saying that they -- if they want five 8-17-05 wk 19 1 cents, that the original petition says we -- we don't want 2 any more than five cents? 3 MR. DERRICK: No, at that time. You're not 4 saying we're not ever going to go to 10. At the time of the 5 original petition, you have to state what the original or 6 first tax rate's going to be. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I got you. 8 MR. DERRICK: And then you go from there. 9 And the only way it can be changed after that is by another 10 vote. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I know what I'm 12 voting on now, but -- 13 MR. DERRICK: Absolutely. But that's not 14 saying that I can't come back later on, and I'm voting on 15 five, and I'm going to come back two years from now and say, 16 "Guys, it's not enough money; I'm going to raise to it 17 eight." 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it's -- 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's an election 20 again. 21 MR. DERRICK: It's an election again, by 22 majority. And it's not two-thirds or anything like that; 23 it's strictly majority. The election shall be held on the 24 first authorized unform election date. I think there's, 25 what, four or five of those during the year? 8-17-05 wk 20 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Two. 2 MR. DERRICK: Just two? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Cut down to two, I 4 think. 5 MR. DERRICK: Okay. One of those dates is 6 when -- when the -- only when the election can take place. 7 So, if y'all decide to do this in the next two months, 8 November's is pretty -- cutting it pretty close. What is 9 your next one, May? November or May. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: March. 11 MR. DERRICK: March? Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's a primary one, 13 though. 14 MR. DERRICK: District may not include 15 territory in municipality -- municipality's limits or 16 extraterritorial jurisdiction unless the majority of the 17 voters residing in that territory who voted in the election 18 vote in favor. It's kind of a little caveat to the whole 19 thing. If you're using the city's ETJ, you still have to 20 have a majority vote of those people within that area for it 21 to go. So, not only the whole district has to go, but for 22 you to use the ETJ, there has to be at least 50 percent of 23 the people -- voters in that area. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You have to be -- 25 can be it be either/or? If you have an election, and say 8-17-05 wk 21 1 that the municipality and ETJ's don't vote for it in a 2 majority, but all the rest vote in majority. 3 MR. DERRICK: You still have an ESD, but not 4 containing your ETJ. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: But you don't start 6 over again? 7 MR. DERRICK: No, sir. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, in effect, you 9 have to get the City's permission for the ETJ before you can 10 conduct a vote; is that correct? 11 MR. DERRICK: Yes. Yes, that is part of the 12 petition process, is you have to have permission from them 13 to -- to use their ETJ. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But -- wait, go back to 15 that. But there is no current means to identify people that 16 live in the ETJ. You're saying we would have to develop a 17 way for Paula -- 18 MR. DERRICK: I don't -- where's Paula? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- to determine -- 20 MR. DERRICK: Looking back there. You moved. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- to determine what -- 22 which residents live in the ETJ? 23 MR. DERRICK: Do you have a computer program 24 that can pinpoint where the ETJ is and tell what voters are 25 in there? 8-17-05 wk 22 1 (Ms. Rector shook her head negatively.) 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's 1 mile beyond the 3 city limits. But -- 4 MR. DERRICK: I'm sure there would have to be 5 some appropriate means of determining that. Whether -- I 6 don't know if that's doing it by hand, doing -- buying a 7 computer program that does that, or what-have-you. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: About the only thing 9 I could think of off the top of my head is -- think about 10 this with me, Paula -- would be to outline the 1-mile area 11 and then -- and then overlay that into census blocks and see 12 what you get that way. 13 MS. RECTOR: Possibly. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We have maps that show 15 the city boundaries, and then a map -- and then 1 mile out, 16 another line. 17 MS. RECTOR: There's no ETJ boundary 18 that's -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, I don't know if 20 it's defined. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's just a line, 22 imaginary line. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's pretty general. I 24 mean -- 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's 1 mile 8-17-05 wk 23 1 everywhere around the city. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Take the city and just go 3 a mile around it. You can track it. But trying to figure 4 out where a house is -- 5 MR. DERRICK: It's not a perfect circle. I 6 mean, it looks like the city limits -- 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It follows the city 8 limits. 9 MR. DERRICK: -- onlhy bigger. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Could be ziggy-zaggy 11 all over the place. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Because of the way the 13 city has grown, it could go out towards the rest area, 14 Comanche Trace. You could get these real big oblong things 15 that intersect each other. 16 MS. RECTOR: The appraisal district mapping 17 system may be able to define -- 18 MR. DERRICK: Your Appraisal District may be 19 able to help you with that. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Somebody has to deal 21 with that somewhere. 22 MR. DERRICK: Yes. It has to be done by -- I 23 bet she's right. I bet your Appraisal District has computer 24 software that does that. And if the majority of those 25 voting at the election vote against creation of the 8-17-05 wk 24 1 district, Commissioners Court may not order another election 2 for at least one year of the date of the official canvass. 3 So, if it doesn't go through, you have to wait a calendar 4 year from the time the votes were canvassed. 5 I just want to go through real quick about 6 what this board can and can't do. The district powers. Of 7 course, it's a political subdivision of the state. The 8 functions of the district are to provide emergency services, 9 and they may -- and you can read them there. They can 10 purchase, lease, manage, sell, buy, enter, and perform 11 necessary contracts, appoint. They can have employees, sue 12 or be sued, impose and collect taxes as prescribed. They 13 can receive donations, lease, own, maintain, operate, and 14 provide emergency services vehicles -- Jon, that's what you 15 were talking about there. Construct, lease, maintain real 16 estate, contract with other entities, including other 17 districts or municipalities, to make emergency services 18 facilities and emergency services available to the district. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, it is conceivable 20 that if it goes by precinct, 'cause it's got more 21 examples -- probably there are several volunteer fire 22 departments, one in Bandera County, one in Kendall County, 23 that cover a lot or a little, depending on which one, of 24 area in Kerr County. So the ESD could contract with each of 25 those fire departments -- 8-17-05 wk 25 1 MR. DERRICK: They will -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- for this, and yet an 3 area where there's no volunteer fire department coverage, 4 they could form their own department. 5 MR. DERRICK: They could. Yes, they could. 6 What will have to happen is an official fire district map, 7 and I don't know if y'all have that or not, or it's just, 8 "Oh, Comfort says they go to Lane Valley and Center Point 9 comes that way. It's just an understanding." Well, there's 10 going to have to be a map that shows that. And then that -- 11 that legal boundary will be done up into a contract, and the 12 ESD will contract with the Comfort Volunteer Fire Department 13 to cover these areas in Kerr County. They'll have to 14 contract with Center Point to cover these areas in Kerr 15 County. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the -- and then for 17 that, they'll negotiate a -- 18 MR. DERRICK: A sum of money, that's right. 19 What also I've seen with the -- what a lot of your ESD's 20 will do is they'll develop emergency funds, where -- or 21 capital equipment funds, where you can say, okay, one time a 22 year, kind of like your budget, you can apply to the 23 district for a new fire truck or for some type of capital 24 item, something that's over a set amount of money, whatever 25 that may be. And then they can -- they can approve or 8-17-05 wk 26 1 disapprove. Say Center Point comes to the district and 2 says, "We need a new brush truck. We have got to have a new 3 brush truck, and this is why," tah-dah, tah-dah, tah-dah, 4 and the district can vote; say okay. Either, yeah, we'll 5 pay for it now, or we'll -- we'll develop an account; we'll 6 get half of the money this year, half next year or 7 what-have-you, and we'll buy it for you next year. However 8 they want to do it. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The two ESD's in the 10 western part of the county have an arm's-length relationship 11 with the two fire departments that they fund, and it's just 12 like that. Fire department comes and says, We're going to 13 need a new truck. They decide whether or not they're going 14 to fund all or part of it. But the ESD doesn't have any 15 voice in the operation or management or policies of the fire 16 department. 17 MR. DERRICK: That's right. That's right. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a beautiful 19 thing. 20 MR. DERRICK: It's not going to change your 21 fire departments. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No. 23 MR. DERRICK: The one thing that -- 24 operation-wise, they still are in charge of -- it's not 25 taking any control away from them. The one thing that it 8-17-05 wk 27 1 does take away from them is having to go out there and 2 having these barbecues. Having to have these barbecues, 3 dances, bake sales, whatever, just to buy fuel. Just to buy 4 a tire to put on a flat tire that went down, and busting 5 their behinds trying to get this -- this funding just to 6 operate. And -- and it does help them out a whole lot in 7 that area. Doesn't mean that Center Point can't still have 8 their -- I'm sure they'll want -- probably want to. That's 9 just an annul deal to have their barbecue and dance, get 10 after it. Hunt could; anybody could. It doesn't preclude 11 that. It doesn't preclude them from getting donations, 12 either. The donations that are given don't have to come to 13 the ESD's. I can still give a check to the Hunt Volunteer 14 Fire Department or the Center Point Volunteer Fire 15 Department or what-have-you. It does not preclude that. 16 That can still happen. So, if somebody, especially a 17 company, wants to give money or what-have-you, or an 18 individual wants to give money, that's still good. Does not 19 change any of that. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the -- just a step 21 further, they could contract -- like, in the Comfort area, 22 they can contract with the Comfort Volunteer Fire Department 23 for the fire, and they can contract with Kendall County EMS 24 to provide EMS services. 25 MR. DERRICK: If they want a contract, yeah. 8-17-05 wk 28 1 Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Smarty-pants. 3 MR. DERRICK: They can -- again, they can 4 borrow money -- here's the last few. Contract with other 5 entities, borrow money, and perform any acts necessary to 6 carry out the intent of the chapter. In other words, giving 7 the citizens of Kerr County the necessary fire and emergency 8 medical protection that -- that they need. 9 The board. Commissioners Court of the county 10 in which a single-county district is located shall appoint a 11 five-member board. To serve as a member of the board, you 12 have to be these -- these things; 18, resident citizen of 13 the state, qualified voter within that area, or the owner of 14 land in that area. Commissioners serve two-year terms. 15 After the votes are canvassed and the Commissioners Court 16 enters into the order creating the district, the 17 Commissioners Court shall appoint the initial emergency 18 services commissioners to serve until January 1 of the year 19 following the district elections. Say y'all do this in 20 March -- just hypothetically, you do this in March. You 21 will appoint the five Commissioners from March until 22 January 1, and January 1, the Court shall designate three of 23 those emergency services commissioners to serve a two-year 24 term and two of those emergency services commissioners to 25 serve a one-year term. They shall hold regular monthly 8-17-05 wk 29 1 meetings, keep the minutes, give reports, give a written 2 report not later than February 1 to the Commissioners Court 3 regarding the district's administration. 4 What I kept reading in here, and I'm sure 5 y'all have noticed already, y'all's titles are mentioned in 6 here a lot. So you're not -- even though you're allowing 7 somebody else to contract with the City for these services, 8 you'll still have lots of say-so built -- built into here. 9 The board may -- I thought this one was a neat one. I 10 didn't -- I didn't know this, to tell you the truth, until I 11 was studying up on it the other day. The board may adopt a 12 fire code, including fines for any violations, that -- that 13 does not conflict with a fire code adopted by any county 14 that also contains within its boundaries any portion of the 15 land contained in the district, and may require inspections 16 in the district relating to the causes and prevention of 17 fires and medical emergencies. Do y'all have a fire code 18 that people have to abide by in the county right now? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 20 MR. DERRICK: You can when this gets into 21 place, if it's so desired. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's the scary 23 part. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I agree. Go to 25 the next slide. 8-17-05 wk 30 1 MR. DERRICK: It doesn't have to be. It just 2 says the board may adopt. It's not -- not a mandatory 3 thing. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That may be related to 5 a fire marshal, though. 6 MR. DERRICK: It's coming up. Coming up. 7 They can do that, too. The board may commission -- here it 8 is -- commission a peace officer or employ a person who 9 holds a permanent peace officer license issued under this 10 section of the Occupations Code to inspect for fire hazards 11 any structure, appurtenance, fixture, or other real property 12 located in the district. The board may adopt procedures and 13 order the owner or occupant of the property that fails an 14 inspection to correct a hazardous situation. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sounds like Rusty to 16 me. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't think so. I 18 will say I think what -- looking at some of our hazards out 19 in the county, this county is way behind, and probably 20 should have a fire marshal and a fire code. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Just because of the 23 multi -- 24 MR. DERRICK: And it doesn't have to be -- 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I kind of like being 8-17-05 wk 31 1 behind the curve on that one. If we hired a fire marshal, 2 the first thing he or she would do was tell you is he needs 3 an assistant and a clerk and three vehicles, and then he'd 4 bring some codes in and say, "I want to go out here and 5 inspect all your restaurants and make sure the back door's 6 open." You're just getting into a huge bureaucracy. 7 MR. DERRICK: The thing about it is, though, 8 if do you an ESD, you -- you don't hire these people. The 9 ESD does. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't want them 11 hiring them. That's just my opinion. 12 MR. DERRICK: Yeah. But, I mean, it's just a 13 possibility. It's not a mandatory thing. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it brings up a point. 15 Ron, can you -- can the election limit some of these things? 16 Or once you -- you either get it, and then it's up to the 17 board? I mean, could the election, say, delete the 18 provision for the ESD creating the fire marshal? 19 MR. DERRICK: The original petitions that I 20 have seen, Jon, do not limit that. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's what the law -- 22 MR. DERRICK: Does not limit what the ESD can 23 do. I think the powers of the board of the ESD are set by 24 state law. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 8-17-05 wk 32 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: All these codes right 2 here. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think you're probably 4 right. 5 MR. DERRICK: Yes. Basically, the 6 officers -- there's five of them; president, vice president, 7 secretary, treasurer, assistant treasurer, to perform the 8 duties. The office of secretary/treasurer may be combined. 9 The treasurer must execute and file with the County Clerk a 10 bond conditioned on the faithful execution of the 11 treasurer's duties. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Before we go on -- 13 MR. DERRICK: Go ahead. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- is there -- are all of 15 -- is the ESD subject to open meetings? Open records? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes. 17 MR. DERRICK: Yes, they are a political 18 subdivision. And they're also going to be open here in a 19 minute -- and I'm glad Tommy's in here -- to audit by the 20 County Auditor. I'm sure Tommy loves to hear that. More 21 work. 22 MR. TOMLINSON: I already do two. 23 MR. DERRICK: Yeah, that's true. You'll have 24 to do the rest of them. The commissioners can be 25 compensated if necessary. They can receive a comp -- 8-17-05 wk 33 1 compensation of not more than $50 a day on a day they 2 actually spend performing those duties. It may not go over 3 $3,000 a year. They can be reimbursed for any reasonable 4 and necessary expenses. May get a per diem. The exception 5 to receiving compensation, they may get $50 a day when they 6 actually perform their duties instead of anything else. The 7 district can also charge fees if they want to. And -- and 8 some examples of this is reasonable fees for emergency 9 services. If the -- if they have a fire marshal or -- or 10 they're dealing with fire alarms and fire codes and things 11 like that, false alarms, they can actually set up a fee for 12 fire departments responding to false alarms. I think the 13 city fire department here has a -- has an ordinance in 14 place -- I think it says after five or something like that. 15 Don't -- don't take that for gospel, but I think it's after 16 five. So, if Sid Peterson's alarm goes off more than five 17 times and it's not -- and it is deemed a false alarm, they 18 start charging. They have the possibility of doing this, or 19 for fire code inspections or -- or any of those things 20 associated with the fire marshal. They have a limitation. 21 Can't be in excess of funds on-hand and anticipated for the 22 next year. 23 This tells a little bit about what we were 24 talking about. How do you increase the tax rate? If the 25 board decides to increase the tax rate, it has to be done -- 8-17-05 wk 34 1 authorized at an election. Increase or decrease in the tax 2 rate must be voted on and passed by a vote before any action 3 can be taken place. If the board -- board decides to 4 increase the tax rate in the district to any rate at or 5 below the rate allowed by this subchapter, blah-blah-blah, 6 the board must order an election and authorize an election 7 to authorize the increase. So, everything has to be done by 8 election. If you're going to increase, if you're going to 9 decrease, if you're going to form the ESD, you got to have 10 an election. If you're going to eliminate an ESD, you have 11 to have an election. First uniform election date is when it 12 will be held. If a majority of the votes cast in the 13 election favor the increase, the tax rate for the district 14 is increased to the rate authorized by the election. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Question. 16 MR. DERRICK: Yes, sir? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Effectively, then, 18 what's happening when they set a tax rate is they're setting 19 a maximum. They may not be setting the rate they need at 20 that time, but they may be setting a nickel, and if they 21 only needed 2 and a half cents, they're operating on 2 and a 22 half cents. 23 MR. DERRICK: They can do that. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And they have the 25 ability to go to the nickel. 8-17-05 wk 35 1 MR. DERRICK: Yes, they do. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Without an election. 3 MR. DERRICK: Yes. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: When they hit a 5 nickel, there's -- 6 MR. DERRICK: They have to do that by 7 election, right. When you set a tax rate, you can work 8 anywhere underneath that. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 10 MR. DERRICK: If you set a 5-cent tax rate, 11 that doesn't mean you have to collect all that, especially 12 if you're only going to use 2 percent of it. And, you know, 13 you don't want to be building up this huge nest egg and 14 charging the taxpayers. So, yes, when you set a tax rate, 15 you can work anywhere underneath that. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 17 MR. DERRICK: But to raise that cap, you have 18 to have an election. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Go back to the 20 people. 21 MR. DERRICK: Right. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think that's what 23 Mountain Home did, if I remember right. They started out at 24 maybe a nickel, and -- but only -- 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Who are you talking 8-17-05 wk 36 1 about? 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- used three cents 3 or two -- three? Yeah. 4 MR. DERRICK: What that does, it gives the 5 board every year a little latitude to work with, instead of 6 always having to have an election. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. 8 MR. DERRICK: You know, you set your 9 original -- with your original petition, you set a max. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 11 MR. DERRICK: Five cents, and then your board 12 can work within that zero to five without having an 13 election. But if they ever need more, you're going to have 14 to have an election to raise that cap up. And that's -- the 15 majority of the time, that's why your ESD's over in -- in 16 Travis County, they all just said, well, the heck with it; 17 we're going to put our cap at 10 and let our ESD's work 18 within that. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Come to think of it, 20 Commissioner Baldwin, I think they started -- they got 21 authorization for 10, and they just started with it. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know. Paula, 23 do you know? 24 MS. RECTOR: I was thinking -- 'cause you and 25 I were in that together, and I was thinking that they went 8-17-05 wk 37 1 with the 10 cents. 2 MR. DERRICK: Cap? 3 MS. RECTOR: Yeah, the 10-cent cap. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Started off 5 collecting three. 6 MS. RECTOR: Yeah. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And so you think that 8 you collect three cents? 9 MS. RECTOR: I think that's what they're -- 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think that's 11 right. 12 MR. DERRICK: Ingram or Mountain Home? 13 MS. RECTOR: Mountain Home. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How do you -- I know 15 this is a question for later on, really, but if you set it 16 at 10, how do you -- how do you just collect three? 17 MS. RECTOR: Because that's what they 18 adopted. That's -- 19 MS. PIEPER: They adopted up to 10. 20 MS. RECTOR: -- three cents to operate on for 21 that year, even though they can go up to 10 if they choose. 22 They only need three cents to operate. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, at a board 24 meeting -- 25 MR. DERRICK: Because they are -- they do the 8-17-05 wk 38 1 exact same thing as y'all do every year. Each department is 2 going to submit a budget, and they're going to get them in, 3 approve and disapprove things like that. And then they say, 4 "Okay, we're going to need so much money." Well, to get so 5 much money, we need 3 percent, so we're going to vote to 6 adopt 3 percent. If it's 4 percent, they vote to adopt 7 4 percent. If that money they need is over their cap, then 8 they have to have an election to raise the cap. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, the 3 percent, 10 and then next year they decide, "Oops that wasn't quite 11 enough," or more budgets come in that are a little bit 12 higher. Then they -- by board vote, they can raise it from 13 3 to 5. 14 MR. DERRICK: Long as it's not over the cap. 15 That's why you see a lot of these people just go ahead and 16 run their original petition up to 10, and then it allows the 17 board that latitude of zero to 10. Sales tax, again, it's 18 if you have room. The district may impose the tax at a rate 19 from one-eighth of 1 percent to 2 percent, in increments of 20 one-eighth of 1 percent. May be used for any purpose, as -- 21 the same as ad valorem taxes. They have to have an 22 election. A district may not authorize bonds and notes 23 secured in whole or in part by taxes unless a majority of 24 the district's qualified voters who vote at an election 25 ordered for that purpose approve the issuance of bonds or 8-17-05 wk 39 1 notes. So, the bonds -- if you're going to go out for bonds 2 or notes, you have to do it with an election of the people 3 in that area. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: That -- that authorization 5 could be submitted as a separate proposition at the initial 6 election, could it not? 7 MR. DERRICK: I guess you've lost me here, 8 now, Judge. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: The initial election on the 10 formation of the -- 11 MR. DERRICK: The original petition? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: -- emergency services 13 districts. Could you submit a separate proposition at that 14 time to issue bonds or notes? 15 MR. DERRICK: Golly, I would think that you 16 could. And then if the formation of the ESD fails, that -- 17 that automatically fails. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: True. 19 MR. DERRICK: Yeah. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: The formation of the ESD may 21 pass, but the authority to issue bonds or notes might fail. 22 MR. DERRICK: Right. Right. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You could do that not 24 knowing what the bonds are going to go for -- proceeds are 25 going to be used for? 8-17-05 wk 40 1 MR. DERRICK: I think you'd have to justify 2 what the bonds would be used for, whether it's -- we're 3 going to build each volunteer fire department a new 4 addition, we're going to buy each of them a new fire truck, 5 or -- I would think you'd have to justify what those bonds 6 were for. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not just a blanket 8 authority. 9 MR. DERRICK: Right. Wouldn't that be nice? 10 Audit. As Tommy was saying, he already does it for two of 11 them, but the audit shall be performed, and the report shall 12 be prepared at the expense of the district, but it's done by 13 the County Auditor. With the approval of the Commissioners 14 Court, Auditor shall adopt rules relating to the format of 15 the audit and the report. I'm sure he already does that. 16 He already has a format. District shall pay all costs 17 incurred by the County Auditor to perform an audit and issue 18 the report required by this section, unless otherwise 19 ordered by the Commissioners Court. Do they pay anything 20 for the audits now? 21 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 22 MR. DERRICK: Okay. You choose not to; 23 that's fine. 24 MR. TOMLINSON: My fee is really high. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ron, one thing. Maybe 8-17-05 wk 41 1 you went over it and I just missed it. The original 2 appointment of commissioners -- ESD commissioners, we do. 3 Do we do all -- every year; then we do -- we appoint the 4 other -- the permanent ones as well? 5 MR. DERRICK: Right. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, it's not -- the 7 people -- the commissioners are never elected; they're 8 always appointed by the Court? 9 MR. DERRICK: The first year, they're only 10 interim until January 1. Then at January 1, you 11 determine -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One-year and two-year 13 terms. 14 MR. DERRICK: -- one year and two years. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: After one year, we 16 appoint those -- either the same people or new people, but 17 it's up to the Commissioners Court to -- 18 MR. DERRICK: Yeah, and there's -- and 19 there's -- of course, there's a whole lot more to this, but 20 Buster wanted me to keep it very brief. And one of the 21 things that -- there's guidelines for the County 22 Commissioners to use for board appointments, what -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sure. 24 MR. DERRICK: -- kind of people should be on 25 there. Of course, you should have one financial guy, banker 8-17-05 wk 42 1 or accountant or something like that. At least two people 2 in there that are -- are familiar with the way volunteer 3 fire departments operate. There's certain guidelines that 4 they -- they ask you to follow. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there authority to 6 expand it to more than five? 7 MR. DERRICK: No. By state law, it's five. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there any flexibility 9 or is there any mechanism so that -- say we went with a 10 county-wide, including the City of Kerrville; that the -- 11 that the City of Kerrville could say they get two slots and 12 we get -- 13 MR. DERRICK: This is what the city of 14 Fredericksburg was proposing to Gillespie County. There's a 15 board of five people. They were going to say let's have two 16 county -- 'cause they didn't want to give up that control -- 17 two county commissioners, two city council members, and then 18 a member at large; that was the president. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That both agree upon? 20 MR. DERRICK: Yes, sir. Yes, sir. And, so, 21 that's how they were going to have this ESD, but still have 22 control. 'Cause you get to -- you get to approve a lot of 23 things, but the ESD still gets to operate within the 24 parameters of the law, and you're not going to have a say-so 25 about it. 8-17-05 wk 43 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. I'll leave it at 2 that. 3 MR. DERRICK: Any other questions? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. Very 5 informative. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you very much. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We went to hear the 8 expert from Austin, and he was excellent. 9 MS. RECTOR: I still have the book. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And your 11 presentation was equally as good. 12 MS. RECTOR: Yes, it was. 13 MR. DERRICK: Appreciate it. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, don't start that 15 nonsense; he'll be back tomorrow. Thank you, Ron. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: What time will you be back 17 tomorrow? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. As we go 19 along -- we'll talk about it as we go along through 20 Commissioners Court. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This question is really 22 more for Paula. If we excluded the city of Kerrville, do 23 you have any kind of a ballpark as to what one cent -- well, 24 if we excluded the current ESD's and city of Kerrville, what 25 does one cent raise? 8-17-05 wk 44 1 MS. RECTOR: Off the top of my head? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sure. 3 MS. RECTOR: I don't know, Jonathan. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That would be an 5 interesting number to know as to dollars, what we're looking 6 at. Just a -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I want to ask the 9 question a different way. What's available to us in the 10 county, sales tax? 11 MS. RECTOR: Well, we already have a 12 half-cent sales tax in place to offset property taxes. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, 6 percent goes to 14 the state. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: We're maxed out. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're maxed out in 17 the county? 18 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't think -- doesn't 19 matter. It's totally -- 20 MS. RECTOR: Total. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: -- within the county. 22 MS. RECTOR: No, the county can add one. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think so, too. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We just were told that we 25 could -- as I understand it, that there is -- there's not a 8-17-05 wk 45 1 whole lot of sales going on in the county. We may raise it 2 to get -- and not get much money. I was under the 3 impression that we could -- in the other part of the county, 4 we could add up to what the city's maxed out at. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: City's at eight. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: City's at eight. We can 7 go to eight with some other things, economic improvement and 8 other things in unincorporated areas. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's my 10 understanding. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did y'all learn this 12 in Austin? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That would be 15 something new. 16 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. I -- I wasn't aware of 17 it, but I thought it was the max. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. But -- well, you 19 get into, though, there's very few sales going on in the 20 county. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's maxed in town; 22 it's six plus two in town. But there's not any plus-two on 23 the county that I'm aware of. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're at .75, because 25 it's -- 7.75 is -- 8-17-05 wk 46 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, there's a half a 2 cent available out there. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One and a quarter. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or six and 5 three-quarters. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're at six and 7 three-quarters right now. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Six and 9 three-quarters. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: There's an idea 11 floating around about another ESD and an idea floating 12 around about a library district, and when I take off my 13 commissioner hat and put on my taxpayer hat, what I see is 14 that these various increasing numbers of taxing entities 15 drive my taxes up. If this ESD starts paying for some costs 16 we've been paying for, and library district starts paying 17 some costs, my taxes aren't going to go down; they go up. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Only way it makes any 19 sense, Commissioner, to the taxpaying public is if there 20 were a pledge out of the taxing entities that, for example, 21 if we didn't -- if we didn't have to fund the library out of 22 this budget, we'd back this out of our tax rate. If we 23 didn't have to fund EMS out of this budget, we'd back that 24 out of the tax rate. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We could do that. 8-17-05 wk 47 1 Of course, taxpayers and politicians have short memories, 2 and that might not be good three years later. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, long-term, 4 you're right. But I think what it does do, if people truly 5 want the library, it gives them a way to pay for it, because 6 it starts setting priorities by the taxpayers, letting them 7 set the priorities. If this is more -- if there's -- you 8 know, and I think you're right. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: There's some good to 10 it, but they also will never go away. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Never go away, and taxes 12 will go up. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else on the emergency 14 services district? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. Where'd Michael 16 go? Ron, do you want to shut this thing down? 17 MR. DERRICK: Sure. Oh, I need my -- 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thanks again, Ron. 19 MR. DERRICK: You bet. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: If there's nothing further on 21 the emergency services district, we'll go ahead and recess 22 until 3 o'clock, at which time we'll go into the next 23 session of our posted agenda. So, we'll be in recess till 24 3 o'clock. 25 (Recess taken from 2:25 p.m. to 3:00 p.m.) - - - - - - - - - - 8-17-05 wk 48 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 5 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 6 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 7 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 5th day of December, 8 2005. 9 10 11 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 12 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 13 Certified Shorthand Reporter 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 8-17-05 wk