1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Special Session 10 Monday, August 22, 2005 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 23 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 24 ABSENT: DAVE NICHOLSON, Commissioner Pct. 4 25 2 1 I N D E X August 22, 2005 2 PAGE --- Commissioners' Comments 5 3 1.1 Receive and open sealed bids for long distance 4 service. Consider approval of long distance telephone service provider 7, 160 5 1.2 Consider approving or consolidating polling 6 locations in accordance with Chapter 43 of the Texas Election Code 8 7 1.3 Information and discussion of Revision of Plat 8 for Mosty Pecan Grove, Vol. 7, Page 295 13 9 1.4 Approval to issue purchase order for 480 HD Asphalt Zipper 16 10 1.5 Approval of purchase of multi-function fax machine 11 and installation of fax line 20 12 1.6 Consider/dicusss Kerr County Veterans Service Officer proposal 22 13 1.7 Discuss upgrade of civil and criminal case 14 management to Odyssey by TSG 35 15 1.8 Consider and discuss the report "Kerr County Information Technology System Efficiency." 45 16 1.9 Update the court on SB-6 relating to protective 17 services, that requires Commissioners' Court to establish "Family Protection Fee" 62 18 1.10 Implement an increase in Alternative Dispute 19 Resolution fee from $10 to $15, as provided by HB-282 68 20 1.11 Update the Court on SB-1704 relating to jury 21 service and set new juror reimbursement 70 22 1.12 Consider/discuss approval of Tom Green County contract for placement of juveniles at KCJF, 23 authorize County Judge to sign same 77 24 1.13 Consider rescinding offer to contract with Excavation Technologies, Inc., for debris cleanup 25 of Flat Rock Lake 79 3 1 I N D E X August 22, 2005 2 PAGE 1.14 Consider/discuss draft of Kerr County Facilities 3 Booking & Rental Policy 82 4 1.15 Discuss procedures for paying and reporting of expenditures involving penalties, fees, interest, 5 or other costs associated with late payment or other administrative system failures 111 6 1.16 Consider/discuss clarification of policy regarding 7 Kerr County employees payroll/paycheck direct deposit program 112 8 1.17 Consider/discuss approval of Kerr Central Appraisal 9 District Budget 118 10 1.18 Consider modifying proposed Animal Control Contract with City of Kerrville 121 11 1.19 Consider/discuss EMS Contract and take appropriate 12 action thereon 124 13 1.20 Consider authorizing Sheriff to apply for a grant for a courthouse security system from a local 14 foundation 151 15 4.1 Pay Bills 172 16 4.2 Budget Amendments 180 4.3 Late Bills 187 17 4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 190 18 5.1 Reports from Commissioners/Liaison Committee Assignments 191 19 --- Adjourned 200 20 21 22 23 24 25 4 1 On Monday, August 22, 2005, at 9:00 a.m., a special 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in the 3 Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville, 4 Texas, and the following proceedings were had in open court: 5 P R O C E E D I N G S 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, ladies and 7 gentlemen. Let me call to order this regularly scheduled 8 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court posted for 9 this time and date, Monday, August 12th (sic), 2005, at 10 9 a.m. It is that time now. I've been informed that 11 Commissioner Nicholson is ill this morning and will be 12 unable to be with us. Commissioner Baldwin, I believe 13 it's -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It is, sir. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: -- your privilege this 16 morning. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If you'll stand and 18 join me in a word of prayer, and then we'll do the pledge of 19 allegiance. 20 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. At this time, if 23 there is any member of the audience or the public that 24 wishes to be heard on a matter that is not a listed agenda 25 item, we're happy for you to come forward at this time. If 8-22-05 5 1 you want to speak on an agenda item, we would ask that you 2 fill out a participation form. There should be some at the 3 back of the room. If there are not, if you let Ms. Mitchell 4 know, she'll get some rounded up, hopefully. But if there's 5 -- we don't insist that you do that, but it's helpful for me 6 so that I don't miss you when that agenda item comes up. 7 But if there's anyone who wishes to speak on an agenda 8 item -- or an item that is not listed on the agenda, excuse 9 me, please feel free to come forward at this time and tell 10 us what's on your mind. Seeing no one to come forward, 11 we'll move on. Commissioner Baldwin, what do you have for 12 us this morning? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I have nothing. 14 Thank you for the offer. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Williams? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Representative 17 Hilderbran and Mr. Tom Mock, the Kerr County Republican 18 Chair, and yours truly were the judges at the third annual 19 Guadalupe River Cleanup Float Parade -- I think I said that 20 right -- and it was fun. And the winner was a young -- 21 little young man from west Kerr County who built a great big 22 P-51 type airplane out of styrofoam with a little cockpit 23 and a little -- and he was inside that cockpit just pedaling 24 as hard as his little legs could go, and he ended up being 25 the first-place winner, and it was great. The effort was -- 8-22-05 6 1 needed a little bit more support. The folks who worked on 2 it did a good job, but we didn't get a lot -- didn't get a 3 lot of public turnout. And, of course, what they're doing 4 was raising money for river cleanup in various locations 5 where it's necessary. But those good folks are to be 6 commended for their efforts, and a fun time was had by all. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: That it? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's it. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner 3? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: After spending the 11 weekend in Houston, I'm glad I live in Kerr County. 12 (Laughter.) And I understand why so many Houstonians are 13 moving here. That's all I have. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. I appreciate the 15 efforts of the folks and the leadership that participated in 16 that river cleanup effort. The thing I would remind you of 17 is that I think everyone's aware that school is back in 18 session and the little ones are back in school, and they may 19 not be in tune to the traffic just yet. And we probably 20 aren't either, because we've been going all summer without 21 having to worry about looking out for them, but it may take 22 them a little longer time to ramp up to watch out for us 23 than it does for us to watch out for them. So, drive 24 carefully, especially in the school zones. That's all I 25 got. Let's move on with our agenda, if we might. 8-22-05 7 1 The first item on the agenda is to receive 2 and open sealed bids for long distance telephone service. 3 Consider, discuss, and approval of a long distance telephone 4 service provider. You got the bids? Okay. Looks like we 5 have two bids that were delivered. One is K.T.L.D. The -- 6 the title is a 5-Cent Saver Plan. I'm not sure that I need 7 to go beyond that, depending upon what action the Court 8 decides to take. That was submitted on behalf of Kerrville 9 Telephone Long Distance. The second proposal is a 10 considerably more voluminous proposal, it appears, presented 11 on behalf of Frontera Telecommunications, Inc. There is 12 a -- quite a large volume of material here, including a -- a 13 disk as part of it. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, I make a motion we 15 accept both bids and refer them to Mr. Trolinger for review 16 and report back to the Court -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- with a recommendation. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 20 acceptance of both bids and referral to our I.T. Manager for 21 review and recommendation -- evaluation and recommendation 22 back to the Court. Any -- any further discussion on the 23 motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your 24 right hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8-22-05 8 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. The 4 next item on the agenda is to consider and discuss approving 5 or consolidating of the polling locations in accordance with 6 Chapter 43 of the Texas Election Code. This matter was 7 submitted, I believe, on behalf of the County Treasurer -- 8 or Clerk, excuse me. 9 MS. PIEPER: Gentlemen, if y'all don't mind, 10 I'm going to stand here; I think I'm loud enough that 11 everybody can hear me. We have the option of opening up all 12 20 precincts for the election in November, or we have the 13 option of consolidating them. This will be a constitutional 14 amendment election, so it's whatever your pleasure is. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can you open up all 16 of them -- I mean, can you consolidate some and leave one 17 precinct with three boxes open? 18 MS. PIEPER: Yes, we can. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You can do it that 20 way? 21 MS. PIEPER: We can do it. It's however you 22 want. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: When do you need to 24 know this? 25 MS. PIEPER: Today. 8-22-05 9 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Today? 2 MS. PIEPER: Because I have to put a 3 preclearance in. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 'Cause we're 5 not certain about the precinct by election in terms of local 6 option, whether or not that will be -- 7 MS. PIEPER: I talked to the Secretary of 8 State on that to find out if we needed all of the polling 9 locations in that precinct opened, and they said it's 10 strictly up to Commissioners Court. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Strictly our call. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would think that in 13 your precinct, you certainly would want more than one open. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I would think 15 so too. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably -- the last time 17 we had the constitutional amendment -- similar election, we 18 just had one open, as I recall. 19 MS. PIEPER: That is correct, yes. One in 20 each precinct. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We couldn't do it 22 conditionally, could we, in terms of the three in Precinct 23 2? And if it turns out within two weeks that -- that there 24 will not be a local option election -- you can't do it that 25 way? 8-22-05 10 1 MS. PIEPER: No, I can't. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Got to know for sure 3 today. Well, I'd like to keep all three in Precinct 2 open, 4 then. 5 MS. PIEPER: Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What was the total 7 turnout in the last -- 8 MS. PIEPER: Seems like it was somewhere in 9 the neighborhood of 5,000, but I'm not for sure, for the 10 last constitutional amendment election. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One of the other reasons 12 I was wrestling with this, we need to make voting as easy as 13 possible, but at the same time, it doesn't make a lot of 14 sense to open up -- 15 MS. PIEPER: Seems like most of it was early 16 voting. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. And if we just go 18 with one location, we just need to designate which one for 19 each one of our precincts? 20 MS. PIEPER: Yes. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm ready. Are you 22 ready? 23 MS. PIEPER: I'm ready, sir. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: In Precinct 1, which 25 goes from Bandera County line to Gillespie County line, I'm 8-22-05 11 1 going to choose three that will cover that entire area. One 2 is 107, Heart of the Hills Fellowship on Camino Real; 113, 3 St. Paul's Methodist on Methodist Encampment, and 119, 4 Trinity Baptist on Jackson Road. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 202, 211, and 215. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll stay with the trend 7 and do 303, 314, and 320. 8 MS. PIEPER: And considering Commissioner 9 Nicholson is not here, what are we going to do on his? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We can choose them for 11 him. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 417 is one of his larger 14 ones, is it not? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 416 -- oh, let's see. 16 Well, the -- which one is now Greenwood Forest? Is that 17 416? Used to be. Okay. 18 MS. PIEPER: Right off, I couldn't tell you 19 that. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I would go with 21 Mountain Home for the far west. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 404 and 416? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm sorry? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 404 and 416 or 417? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, we haven't 8-22-05 12 1 figured out 416, where it -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would think that 416 3 and 417 are geographically pretty close to each other. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, they are. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 406? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think 417 is closer to 8 the people that live in west Kerrville. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think 406 probably 10 covers the City of Ingram and Greenwood Forest. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would think so. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, that's huge. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And 417, then, would 14 be -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And 417 will be fine. 16 MS. PIEPER: 404, 406, and 417? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Correct. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, what about you? 20 MS. PIEPER: Early voting. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Early voting will be 22 in the basement here? 23 MS. PIEPER: Yes, it will. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move we adopt these 25 voting places. 8-22-05 13 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 3 the November election to be held, in addition to early 4 voting in the basement of the courthouse, at various 5 locations as designated for 107, 113, 119, 202, 211, 215, 6 303, 314, 320, 404, 406, and 417. Got that right? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any further question or 9 discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion, 10 signify by raising your right hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Thank 15 you, gentlemen. The next item on the agenda is information 16 and discussion of revision of plat for Mosty Pecan Grove as 17 shown in Volume 7, Page 295, Plat Records, located in 18 Precinct 2. Mr. Odom? 19 MR. ODOM: Good morning, Judge. This agenda 20 item is for information and discussion prior to the final. 21 Mr. Mosty has agreed to reserve an additional 10 feet of 22 right-of-way. The last discussion we had about this, the 23 gentleman was not wanting to do that. I -- Mr. Voelkel was 24 contacted that there's an additional 10-foot of right-of-way 25 included on J.J. Lane. We have a proposed change in the 8-22-05 14 1 plat from 12 acres to 9, and 1.77 to 5. And I would like a 2 direction of the Court, because we had a lively discussion 3 last time about it, so time and money would not be wasted on 4 Mr. Voelkel's part or the client, and we could have a 5 direction for a final. The 10 foot brings it to 40-foot 6 right-of-way from a 30. We have a -- that is a compromise. 7 We also have a turn lane at the bottom for emergency 8 equipment, so I think that that would probably -- my opinion 9 is -- that's my opinion, that that's acceptable to me. It's 10 better, wider, and all the parties involved with that 11 right-of-way and that 30-foot road are enhanced. They're 12 improved from 30 to a 40, and should there be any commercial 13 development -- it's not anticipated to be that, but should 14 -- we never know what the future is. That access would 15 probably come off 27, anyway, so I -- I think it's 16 acceptable. I'd ask Mr. Williams if he has a comment, or 17 Mr. Letz. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I've had a lot 19 of discussions with -- not with Mr. Mosty, who's the current 20 owner of the property, but with the gentleman that -- excuse 21 me -- who is anticipating the purchase of the property. And 22 as the members of the Court will remember, he was -- he was 23 a tad upset last time when he thought he was going to have 24 to give up all that right-of-way. So, the bottom line was, 25 I asked him one day in an off-the-cuff discussion if he felt 8-22-05 15 1 that there was any avenue for compromise between the maximum 2 that our Subdivision Rules would require and where that road 3 is now, and I think he thought about it. He probably 4 conveyed his thoughts back to Mr. Voelkel, and Mr. Voelkel, 5 in turn, I believe, probably talked to Mr. Mosty, and what 6 we have is -- is a compromise suggestion, which I think is 7 satisfactory, frankly. And given the nature of that road 8 and the number of residents going down it, I think that's 9 probably a satisfactory solution. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Would this require any 11 kind of variance from the Subdivision Rules? 12 MR. ODOM: 60-foot right-of-way is what we 13 have, but last time we accepted at 30 with the entrance to 14 Lot 1 to Highway 27 if it was ever subdivided. So, I think 15 that variance was given when we originally set up the 16 original plat. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And the cul-de-sac is 18 still protected down there for emergency vehicles to turn 19 around? 20 MR. ODOM: That's right. That's right. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Does the -- is that whole 22 right-of-way an easement, or is it deeded? 23 MR. ODOM: It is an easement, I believe. 24 MR. VOELKEL: Easement, correct. 25 MR. ODOM: An easement. 8-22-05 16 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have no problem with 2 this. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I move -- we'll just 4 discuss it and take final action on it when it comes up 5 for -- 6 MR. ODOM: That's correct, sir. This is not 7 for action, just for discussion. That way -- 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You have a sense 9 that -- 10 MR. ODOM: I have a sense of direction of the 11 Court, which is good. Thank you. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Any member of the Court have 14 anything further on that? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't think so, 16 Judge. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move on to Item 4, 18 approval of -- to issue purchase orders for 480 HD asphalt 19 zipper. Mr. Odom again. 20 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, before we go to -- 22 one thing on that before Mr. Voelkel leaves. 23 MR. VOELKEL: Yes, sir? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Only other thing is, you 25 might -- in talking to Mr. Mosty, the other -- where J.J. 8-22-05 17 1 Lane hits 27, that angle, if anything can be done -- we're 2 talking probably minimal footage to make that -- so that can 3 at some point become a 90-degree entrance as opposed to that 4 angle. 5 MR. VOELKEL: Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's a minimal amount, I 7 think. It's a safety issue there. Sorry, Judge. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Item 4 on the zipper. 9 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. It -- during budget 10 hearings we discussed this, and I was -- asked the Court if 11 I could come back and present it. We had an opportunity to 12 purchase a zipper, which is a reclaimer, for a lease -- a 13 lease-purchase, but it's basically a purchase, five-year 14 amortization, which was exactly what I'm doing -- I'm 15 spending $17,000 for 17,000 square feet. In talking to my 16 supervisors, we feel that this is a productivity 17 enhancement, that we can finish things a whole lot quicker, 18 take care of problems without a lot of -- a lot of time 19 being tied up on base failures, and that we feel like it 20 will pay for itself in a very short period of time. I can 21 purchase this, but what I'm asking the Court is permission 22 to give a P.O. for after the 1st of October for delivery 23 after 1st of October. The payment would not be until 24 October of '06; would not affect this budget, and that I 25 would have the money in the next budget to pick up that 8-22-05 18 1 payment over five years, and within three years I would pay 2 for my chip spreader and distributor, and we would pay the 3 note off ahead of time, probably within three years. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is there an interest 5 factor for that five-year purchase? 6 MR. ODOM: It is a municipal loan. Right 7 now, that I can't say exactly, but it was less than 8 5 percent. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And it's built into 10 the $18,000 or $19,000 price range? 11 MR. ODOM: That's right, yes, sir. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Leonard, what is this 14 zipper? What function will it have outside the paving 15 season? 16 MR. ODOM: It will have all times, any base 17 failure that's there. Yes, sir, like the wheel wells and 18 where you have this sinking/subsiding or a particular base 19 failure due to water. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sunking/subsiding. I 21 experienced one of those the other day. 22 MR. ODOM: And we -- as a matter of fact, we 23 did it on Lakeway over there and cement-stabilized it. It 24 has just set up perfectly. It takes material and comingles 25 it, either good or bad. You can add it; you don't have to 8-22-05 19 1 do anything. You can lay it right on top of the surface, 2 and it will pulverize it to three-quarters dust and 3 cement-stabilize it. You can stabilize on top of asphalt; 4 it will cement-stabilize it right there. It took us 10 5 minutes to do a half a road, maybe 75 feet long, and that 6 was just amazing. All we did was water it and roll it, and 7 done. That was a demonstration. We've had several of them 8 come up here to demonstrate. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: You mentioned that you are 10 leasing one of those machines, or have been leasing one of 11 those? 12 MR. ODOM: I'm contracting with an individual 13 that has a machine like this, and I'm paying a year's rental 14 just for 17,000 square feet. I say again; not yards, not 15 square miles, just square feet. It's costing me a dollar a 16 square foot to have someone do this. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move approval. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 20 approval of the agenda item. Any question or discussion? 21 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 22 hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 8-22-05 20 1 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 2 MR. ODOM: Thank you. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll move to Item 5, approval 4 of purchase of multi-function fax machine and installation 5 of fax line. Ms. Lavender. 6 MS. LAVENDER: Good morning. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Morning. 8 MS. LAVENDER: This is just one last thing to 9 tidy up getting the program set up. When we started, I've 10 been dependent on using other people's fax machines because 11 there was no fax line in the basement, and now that I've 12 kind of made a nest down there to stay, I do need to go 13 ahead and get a fax machine and fax line run down there in 14 order to do it. Some of the faxes that I'm sending to the 15 Attorney General's office are 35, sometimes 40 pages long, 16 and it takes a little larger fax machine than -- than normal 17 to do those, because you have to send them all in one 18 setting. By faxing the claims in for the Crime Victims 19 Compensation Fund, it facilitates the process about probably 20 three weeks, makes it quicker to do it, because I send in a 21 presumptive eligibility form saying that I've reviewed the 22 claim and believe that it's a worthwhile claim, and that's 23 what this is all about. And Mr. Trolinger helped me select 24 a machine that would be a -- a machine that would adequately 25 do what I need to do. 8-22-05 21 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Question. Budget line 2 10-475-565? 3 MS. LAVENDER: Yes, that's the money that was 4 left over from what you allotted last August in the budget 5 for the program through June 30th. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 475 is the County 7 Attorney's budget, and then 565 is the money that we 8 allotted to your -- 9 MS. LAVENDER: Correct. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- office. Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 14 approval. Ms. Lavender, how does this -- the installation 15 of this -- of this line coincide with your proposed 16 relocation? 17 MS. LAVENDER: Well, we're working on a 18 relocation to move to a little bit larger office down there. 19 The Historical Commission has agreed to -- I believe General 20 Schellhase is here -- to work on a way that we can switch 21 rooms. It will give me a little bit more room. When I have 22 -- I'm going to wait until I get the office done to be able 23 to install the fax machine, if I can. We're working on a 24 time level. We got to put the ceiling back in that room and 25 reconnect the air-conditioner duct, and then we're going to 8-22-05 22 1 start working in there. Hopefully, we're going to get it 2 done in the next month or so. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 4 MS. LAVENDER: Thank you. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: I guess you understand that 6 it'd be nice if we can just put in that line once rather 7 than twice. 8 MS. LAVENDER: That's my intention, sir. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay. Any further 10 question or discussion on the motion? All in favor of that 11 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. 16 MS. LAVENDER: Thank you. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Do we have everybody here on 18 the Veteran's Service Officer proposal? We're a little bit 19 ahead of that particular item. I'd like to go ahead and 20 start that one now, if we could. Let me call it. Consider 21 and discuss Kerr County Veteran's Service Officer. And if 22 there's anybody else that needs to participate, hopefully 23 they'll be here by 9:30, and it certainly looks like that'll 24 take at least that long. Mr. Prout, if you'll come forward? 25 Give us your name and address. 8-22-05 23 1 MR. PROUT: Tom Prout, 1980 -- I forgot where 2 I live. 1989 Bear Creek Road. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. 4 MR. PROUT: Well, I've turned over about 5 everything there is. There are some new things that have 6 come up that I'd like to verbally give you, which is good in 7 some aspects and bad in some others. The Veteran's 8 Administration is going to open an online program there 9 where a veteran can go in and actually monitor his own 10 medical records. This is going to be good for him, and it's 11 going to be good for the service officers. Instead of us 12 hearing the third or fourth interpretation of what the 13 veteran thinks is the matter, we can ask him to go into it 14 and allow us to see it. That's going to work. However, 15 it's also going to cause a tremendous amount of questions. 16 And the situation we're in right -- right now, with only one 17 person up to her ears in service work, I don't know how 18 she's going to possibly have the time to do that. The 19 doctors' time -- y'all know the budget at the V.A. is very 20 bad, and because it is, they just don't have time over there 21 to do anything other than what has to be done, to the point 22 that even lesser examinations and so forth are being 23 canceled right now because of the lack of funds, so they're 24 not going to have time to answer any questions. 25 I think I've outlined everything. I've 8-22-05 24 1 showed you the revenue that the stable veterans bring into 2 the state of Texas. I can't give it to you for Kerr County, 3 because since we've never had a service officer, it hasn't 4 been done that way. I don't think you'll ever get a better 5 deal with the backing of the veterans' organizations who are 6 willing to pick up a lot of costs on this, and the 7 individuals that are dedicated enough to donate their time 8 to fill jobs that in most places are paid positions. So, 9 the only thing I can ask for is what I've got in there; if I 10 can get help with a small office, utilities and a telephone, 11 the rest of it the veterans' service officers are going to 12 take care of. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Tell us, if you would, what 14 your present situation is with regard to veterans' services. 15 MR. PROUT: Are you talking about me and the 16 people that are with me? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the veterans' service 18 officers that assist veterans now. What -- what is your 19 current arrangement for offering these services? What 20 facilities do you have? 21 MR. PROUT: Well, we have the one facility at 22 the Veterans Administration being done by Texas Veterans 23 Commission. She works an eight-hour day; however, only five 24 hours are -- are for veterans, 'cause she has no 25 administrative staff. Therefore, she has to lose three 8-22-05 25 1 hours a day in order to get this done. As indicated in the 2 proposal I gave you, she's going to retire shortly. There 3 is no confirmation somebody's going to come in here. Hoping 4 there is, but there's no confirmation. And, again, because 5 of budget restraints, whoever comes in is not going to get 6 any administrative/clerical help either, so it's going to be 7 the same thing over again. Right now, the veterans that are 8 doing this stuff -- I carry a laptop and a cell phone. I 9 can be any place in the county helping the veterans. All of 10 the service organizations have opened their doors to us. 11 However, some of the people don't like coming to a place 12 where there's smoke, or the people who are engaging in the 13 canteen or things like this, so it's really made it 14 difficult. I miss a lot of veterans 'cause they're -- they 15 don't know where to find me. 16 The V.A. itself recommends that they call the 17 -- one of the places and ask for me, but it's difficult, 18 when you're trying to work with a veteran and he has 19 problems that he doesn't want spread around, when you're 20 sitting in a bingo hall or a canteen and you're discussing, 21 you know, difficult problems. You surely don't want anybody 22 to overhear. We have to keep all our records and all that 23 completely locked, and can't keep medical records on him 24 just for safety's sake. That's why we need a place where we 25 can put our own file cabinets under lock and key and lock 8-22-05 26 1 the door when we walk out at night. Will we be there eight 2 hours a day? I doubt if it will take it to start that. I 3 can foresee in the near future it will turn into that. What 4 I've got scheduled right now is a school for six other 5 individuals who haven't done this before to learn the 6 basics. As I put it in the proposal, there's a school being 7 put on by the Texas Veterans Commission in October. I'm 8 scheduled to go to it. Larry Vetter's scheduled to go to 9 it. The veterans' organizations are paying the expenses on 10 it. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Has the V.A. indicated they're 12 going to continue to allow you to use the facilities out at 13 the V.A. Hospital? 14 MR. PROUT: No, they haven't indicated that. 15 As a matter of fact, I've talked to the Veterans 16 Administration, and they said right now they couldn't -- 17 because of budgets, they couldn't do anything to help us. 18 They thought it was a great idea, this, that, and the other 19 thing, but said we can't give you a room. We can't give you 20 a phone. We can't give you anything. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: So you're losing your home. 22 MR. PROUT: Basically. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay, that's the point 24 I was getting to. And you've been located out at the V.A.? 25 MR. PROUT: Well, the Texas Veterans 8-22-05 27 1 Commission's been out there. Bear in mind, what we're 2 talking about here is a county service officer, which has 3 never been out there, 'cause we've never had one. But the 4 number of people are increasing tremendously. They never 5 took into consideration when they started these budgets 6 about Afghanistan and Iraq. Now we got all these young kids 7 coming back; they're not getting the help they need. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there -- well, do you 9 have a preference as to location? 10 MR. PROUT: No. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It seems -- is there -- I 12 don't know if you know the answer; maybe the Judge may. It 13 seems that the V.A. will be a good location to me. I mean, 14 'cause I think they have space. Is there a way, under any 15 sort of interlocal with them, that if we help fund the 16 telephone line -- I mean, clearly, I would think they have 17 space out there. 18 MR. PROUT: To be very honest with you, they 19 do have space out there. The Disabled American Veterans had 20 a national service officer out there. He left probably a 21 year ago, maybe a little bit more. To the best of my 22 knowledge, that space is not being utilized. And that's -- 23 when I talked to Robin Gutierrez, I pinpointed that exact 24 thing, and she basically told me, "Forget it; they're not 25 letting anybody in for anything." 8-22-05 28 1 JUDGE TINLEY: That's where I was going with 2 my -- with my discussion with Mr. Prout, is while they may 3 have the space out there, they've effectively told him 4 you're out. 5 MR. PROUT: Yeah. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: So the V.A. service officer is 7 gone, and the state officer that we've not had previously, 8 they are hoping to consolidate together in one location. 9 And that makes sense, certainly. 10 MR. PROUT: Well, now, actually, Kerrville 11 comes under Audie Murphy; it would not surprise me in the 12 near future that any service officer is going to be located 13 in San Antonio, not here. 14 MR. PROUT: I see General Schellhase in the 15 audience out there. Is there any way we can exert some 16 leverage with or through you to find the right person to -- 17 to acquire some space out there where it would be the most 18 logical? 19 MR. SCHELLHASE: Well, there's plenty of 20 space out there; it's just a matter of budget. They're not 21 going to fill any of those offices with additional people. 22 The state office -- they're talking about, you know, perhaps 23 a part-time person. They're not going to put someone in 24 part-time. The VFW office out there or Legion office that 25 had a service officer out there, that'll be up to them to 8-22-05 29 1 fill. I'm not for sure, you know, if they want to put 2 another service officer out there or not. Now, don't 3 misunderstand the V.A. They don't want to qualify any more 4 veterans. They've got their hands full now. Budget is 5 short, so the less veterans that are qualified, the less 6 service they have to provide. There's not any question 7 about it. It's a -- there's not any cooperative issue from 8 the standpoint of V.A., you know, to do that. Robin could 9 make space available if she wanted to. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, in the absence of 11 space at the V.A., I mean, the -- some of the limited unused 12 space we have in this building or over in the annex. I 13 mean, there's nothing built out right now, and it would take 14 a while to probably get anything done, if we can find the 15 funding. But there's, you know, what Glenn uses as storage 16 back in that big area, and then there's the lobby area where 17 we hold functions. I mean -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that office space 19 that was set up for booking of the exhibit hall, is that 20 being used? Is that a possibility? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not sure. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Anybody here from 23 Facilities and Maintenance that could answer that question? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm not sure which -- where 25 that was. 8-22-05 30 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, it -- it's that 2 office space, and there's a door -- double door and the 3 sidewalk going right to it. It's that space between the 4 exhibit hall and the arena, and the facilities booking folks 5 were there for a long time. And then, of course, when we 6 had the rain damage, it kind of had some damage, but the 7 space is still there. My question is, is anybody using it? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, I see what you're 9 talking about. I thought you were talking about downstairs. 10 You mean out there at the Ag -- 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I think there's 13 certainly space there, but I think it's a -- it would not be 14 a logical place, in my mind, to put a veterans office at the 15 Ag Barn. I mean, I think the -- 16 MR. PROUT: The other unlogical place is the 17 County Sheriff's Department. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: The only other place that I 19 can consider would be downstairs in the older part of the 20 courthouse. But those spaces are currently being utilized, 21 I believe, by the District Clerk and the Auditor, if I'm not 22 mistaken. 23 MS. UECKER: There's also an office down 24 there that I think Parole uses. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. 8-22-05 31 1 MS. UECKER: I don't know how often they're 2 down there. Now, yeah, I do have a room that has some -- a 3 bunch of stuff in it. Given some time, I can, you know, do 4 something with the stuff. Which is files, you know. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Mainly records that you're 6 required to keep -- 7 MS. UECKER: Mm-hmm. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: -- under the law? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Could your stuff go in 10 that other storage file room down at -- in the annex that -- 11 I don't know, Glenn has -- there's two areas; one, there's 12 furniture, and there's another area that's more secure. 13 MS. UECKER: Yeah, and I do have a lot of 14 records in the secure area. It's just -- last time I was 15 down there, it's pretty packed, but, you know, we can pack 16 some more stuff in there, I guess. Eventually, some of that 17 will be gotten rid of, but I just don't have, you know, the 18 manpower right now to dedicate someone to that project. 19 MR. PROUT: The other thing that's important 20 to know, too, on this, if a space the big enough, we'll even 21 close an office off. But I can't have just a one-room thing 22 where I've got somebody sitting there listening to what 23 we're talking to the other veteran about. And I'm not 24 asking the County do do it. You'll -- I'll get it done. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: This particular space that 8-22-05 32 1 we're talking about, Mr. Prout, has kind of a little 2 reception or lobby area. If you're talking about if 3 someone's waiting to talk to the veterans service officer 4 and that's why you would need separate space, this would be 5 conducive to that. 6 MR. PROUT: Oh, that would be great. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: And then this one particular 8 location that we're talking about could be utilized. But it 9 appears that we need to take a look and see what we might be 10 able to provide to you. I'm not sure we're in a position to 11 make any commitments today. Let me ask you, sir, how many 12 counties in this state presently have veterans service 13 officers? 14 MR. PROUT: Now, I knew you were going to ask 15 me that, and I didn't count them, but if you'll look in the 16 back of the presentation, it's got them all listed, sir. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: 220, I believe, isn't it? 18 MR. PROUT: Somewhere in that neighborhood. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Primarily for the benefit of 20 those here that may not understand what a county -- 21 MR. PROUT: It's behind where you -- there it 22 is, sir. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Looking at the list, 24 we're one of the few that does not have one. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 8-22-05 33 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My only question, in 2 your presentation you had asked for a minimum of two rooms. 3 Does the scenario that the Judge just laid out with a 4 reception area and -- 5 MR. PROUT: Yes, sir, that would work fine. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: More of a private -- 7 MR. PROUT: Yes, sir, as long as I have a 8 place where somebody can wait while we're taking care of 9 somebody else. I can have two or three service officers in 10 the back room, but I can't have two or three veterans there 11 at the same time. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. I like the 13 idea. 14 MS. UECKER: Those waiting -- those waiting 15 may have to wait with some parolees as well. 16 MR. PROUT: They're probably used to it; 17 don't worry about it. (Laughter.) 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Could be the same 19 folks, come in -- come in at the same time. I think it's a 20 great idea. I think it's a great idea, and it's a service 21 that the county should offer to our veterans. Even though 22 the Veterans Administration itself is not taking care of 23 their own folks, we -- it's the least we can do. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd recommend -- I mean, 25 I think it -- concept-wise, I agree. I think, you know, I'm 8-22-05 34 1 in favor of it. We just need to figure out where. And 2 probably the best thing would be for you to get with Glenn 3 Holekamp, our Maintenance -- 4 MR. PROUT: Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- Manager, and look at 6 the options. He may have some options that we haven't 7 thought of. And I would say somewhere in either the 8 downstairs of this building or the downstairs in the annex 9 is where we have limited space available that we have. Get 10 with him, talk about location, and then either he or you 11 could bring it back to us to approve that location. 12 MR. PROUT: Okay. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: I think we need to provide a 14 service to our veterans that we're not providing. 15 MR. PROUT: I appreciate your thought on 16 that. A quick example, when I put in my first claim on the 17 Veteran's Administration -- I have three Purple Hearts. The 18 first claim I got came back, "Shell fragments, wounds 19 non-service connected." You know, that's what you run into. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: You need to quit hanging out 21 in those bad neighborhoods, I guess, don't you? (Laughter.) 22 MR. PROUT: I went to a military academy; I 23 didn't know it was that bad. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I favor the concept. 25 We just need to find the right place to put it. 8-22-05 35 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Yeah, we need -- we 2 need to take care of our own veterans. 3 MR. PROUT: Thank you. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't think there's any 5 question about it. We'll see what we can do for you. 6 MR. PROUT: Thank you very much. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 8 MS. UECKER: The only problem I might see 9 with that downstairs, Judge, is the fact that it's not 10 totally handicapped-accessible. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, that is a 12 problem. That's a consideration. 13 MS. UECKER: I mean, the elevator goes down 14 there, but then you have to come back up some stairs to get 15 to that area. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: I think we had an issue with 17 that before, and there was a concern about needing to build 18 a ramp right there where those stairs are, and that might be 19 something that could be accomplished with relative ease, I 20 think, all things considered. Anything more on that 21 particular item from any member of the Court? Let's move on 22 to Item 7, if we might. Discuss upgrade of civil and 23 criminal case management to Odyssey by The Software Group. 24 Ms. Uecker? 25 MS. UECKER: This is a subject that we 8-22-05 36 1 discussed, I think, at great length last Wednesday during a 2 budget workshop, so I'm not going to attempt to duplicate, 3 you know, everything we talked about there. For me, 4 overall, what this is going to do, it's going to free up 5 some staff time, because it will basically allow users to 6 actually use the system. In other words, if I so desire, 7 which, you know, at some point I hope to, it will allow 8 folks to get on -- either on the internet, because it is a 9 web-based program, and look up a document, either get the 10 index, pay for it, and then it'll either send us a message 11 that says, you know, "This document's been paid for; copy it 12 and send it to them." It -- depending on to what extent, 13 you know, I want to go paperless. 14 The other option would be for those folks 15 that are not -- don't have internet access, if they come in 16 the office, they can go to the public monitor or the public 17 computer, look up their document, print it, pay for it and 18 walk out, and they don't even have to say a word to us. 19 It's going to eliminate a lot of staff time for us in that 20 we get many, many phone calls, "Do you have this case on 21 file?" You know, "Would you look this up see how many pages 22 it is? I need a copy of that, but before I do, you know, 23 how much is it going to cost me?" All of these things would 24 be available without using staff time. And, you know, as 25 we've talked about before, the state and the nation is 8-22-05 37 1 moving paperless, and this will put us one step ahead of -- 2 of getting there, to the extent that we wish to get there. 3 I've already talked about looking up -- 4 constituents looking up documents, but it will allow -- like 5 right now, you either have to know an exact case number or 6 an exact name to be able to look up a document. And I think 7 this will apply for my office as well as Jannett's, but 8 it'll be easier to look up a document, because you can use 9 part of a name or, you know, some key words, so I think 10 that's going to be a big saving for us as well. Training's 11 going to be much easier. It's going to allow us to work on 12 a civil case management and criminal case management at the 13 same time, because right now, if we get phone calls 14 inquiring about civil and someone's on criminal, they have 15 to log completely off -- you know, either finish what 16 they're doing or lose it, log completely off of civil, then 17 relog on back to criminal and answer the question or 18 whatever the person on the phone or that comes in wants. 19 This will allow us to do both at the same time without 20 losing what we've already put in -- data into civil, which 21 will also save some staff time. 22 It will allow the elected official to limit 23 what is seen on the screen, and in my case that's very 24 important because of the adoptions and expunctions and, you 25 know nondisclosures. The part I like is, it will allow us 8-22-05 38 1 to have attorneys being able to access the cases either from 2 their office or, there again, if they come in, rather than 3 calling us and saying, you know, "I need to know if the 4 Judge has signed my order setting, and I need to know when 5 the setting is," they can look it up and see that the Judge 6 has signed the order and that the trial date is 7 such-and-such a day. On the other hand, it will allow us to 8 -- and this is the part that I talk about in my budget, is 9 allowing jurors access to go ahead and fill in their 10 information or return their jury notice saying, "Yes, I'm 11 qualified; I'll be there," or, "No, I'm over 65," and it can 12 then produce a list of who's over 65, who has children under 13 10, who's going to be there, who did not reply at all. So, 14 that -- that, again, is going to save us a lot of time in 15 the courtroom. And I think Jannett may have some comments 16 that she wants to add, and having said all of this and 17 allowing her, I -- at that point, I think Dawson Tyler from 18 The Software Group would like to say a few things or be 19 available for any questions that you might have. 20 MS. PIEPER: Gentlemen, also a lot of the DWI 21 cases that come into our court get enhanced, and before they 22 can get enhanced, the D.A. has to look at it to make sure, 23 and then we certify them and we can send them upstairs. And 24 this would also give our D.A. the opportunity to go into the 25 computer. Our report -- all of our different reportings for 8-22-05 39 1 not only the state, but also the court, would be enhanced. 2 We have criminal court every Tuesday. The Friday before, we 3 start pulling the docket, and on the docket we're very 4 limited as to the information that we can pull out of the 5 computer. The Judge requires us to have the court costs, 6 should the defendant be found guilty. If the defendant was 7 in jail for more than one day, then they want that on the 8 docket. There's numerous things that he wants on the docket 9 that right now we are pulling by hand, and we start it on 10 Friday mornings, and hopefully by Monday evening we're 11 through so we can give it to the Judge and the County 12 Attorney at court Tuesday morning. So, with the 13 enhancement, that will allow us to put all that information 14 out with the push of a button. 15 We can also go in, and there's a calendar 16 system. If we know the date that the Judge is going to be 17 gone or the County Attorney's office is going to be out for 18 a conference or whatever, we can go in months ahead of time 19 and put that date in the computer, and then a couple of 20 months later, when we start sending our hearing notices, if 21 we happen to plug in those dates, it's going to beep and 22 say, oh, County Attorney's out in a conference, or the Judge 23 is out. So that -- and then we can also do it with any 24 attorney, defendant's attorney; if they're going on vacation 25 during the summer, we can plug that in. And the calendar 8-22-05 40 1 system can be used all different types of ways. So, I mean, 2 there's -- this enhancement, there's going to be so many 3 different ways that it could help us. I mean, we'll still 4 have to key in all that information, but it -- we can key it 5 in and get it out quicker. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Before Mr. Tyler 7 speaks, I have a question I'd like to direct to both the 8 District Clerk and the County Clerk. If you acquire this 9 software package, will this allow you to have personnel 10 savings now? Or, in the alternative, will it position you 11 better to handle the increased demand on your department in 12 the future? Which or both? 13 MS. PIEPER: Both. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A both there. 15 MS. UECKER: Both. And, you know, I've told 16 y'all what case load increase we've had just in the last 17 year, and I think that it is going to eliminate adding any 18 additional staff. And I -- and I can see some freeing up of 19 some staff time now to do things, like go through those 20 files that are down there in storage that need to be gone 21 through. Also, there's so many more reports that we're 22 required to make. Right now, I make 37 different reports a 23 month to 37 different agencies -- well, not 37 different 24 agencies; different reports to -- some of them are the same 25 agencies. But this will make that much easier, 'cause I've 8-22-05 41 1 got one person that, you know, spends three days making 2 reports -- just that one report to the state, and to the 3 county as well. So, the answer to your question is yes. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What -- are y'all 5 trying to talk us into buying this thing? Is that -- 6 MS. UECKER: Yes, sir, absolutely. 7 MS. PIEPER: Yes, sir. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the picture 9 I'm getting. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And now we got a 11 salesman fixing -- this is a budget issue, guys, and we went 12 through this last week. And we got a whole budget thing in 13 front of us, so don't spend all day with us. 14 MR. TYLER: I won't. I'll make it very, very 15 brief. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 17 MR. TYLER: Actually, y'all have seen both of 18 these, but if you want to go back through it, it will be 19 right there. So, just real quickly -- and I'll follow 20 Buster's order there and keep it real brief. Hope 21 everybody's doing well this morning. But, basically, this 22 whole thing, since John started it out, was to find areas in 23 the county, as it's being run, that can be run more 24 efficiently. Linda's hit on a couple, as did Jannett. I 25 think the -- just to boil it down into a two-minute blurb, 8-22-05 42 1 what we've done with the new system is we've tried to 2 provide the public, whether that public be lawyers that are 3 involved in cases, reporters that are interested in who's in 4 the jail, somebody looking for a specific document, with a 5 way that they can get at that specific information without 6 tying up county employee time. And I believe that's what 7 these guys have pointed out. On top of that, one of the big 8 things is -- is the product itself. Not just providing the 9 public, but giving a system that's truly integrated amongst 10 all the county's offices, that's easy to use, and most 11 importantly, is a lot easier for people to be trained upon, 12 and as new people come in, to bring those people up to speed 13 so that they're efficiently using the system. And that's 14 really -- and that's it in a nutshell. If you got any 15 questions, I'd love to take those, or -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The -- something that 17 Linda said that caught my ear, that it would free up 18 employees to do other things, like clean out that room. Is 19 that -- where'd the County Clerk go? 20 MS. PIEPER: I'm right here, sir. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You see it the same 22 way? I mean, it will free up employees to do other things? 23 And -- 24 MS. PIEPER: It will free up my employees so 25 they can start on records management that has not been -- 8-22-05 43 1 we've not been able to do, hardly. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you ever see that 3 it'll free up employees permanently? 4 MS. PIEPER: That -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That you would 6 eliminate positions? 7 MS. PIEPER: No. Because the crime rate 8 still goes up. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand; I'm just 10 asking how you see it. 11 MS. PIEPER: No. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Will it keep you from 13 adding employees in the future? 14 MS. PIEPER: It's possible. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the -- I mean, 16 and I know Mr. Tyler's aware of my comment, and 17 Mr. Trolinger. This is an extremely expensive system, and I 18 don't see that we have the budget to do it unless we're 19 getting some cost savings on employees. I mean, I know 20 everybody wants it. I want it. But it's expensive. And we 21 really need to come up with a -- looking at each of your 22 offices that are going to be using it and seeing if there's 23 a way we can cut back on manpower a little bit. That's what 24 we're being sold as the reason we're doing this. And, you 25 know, I really would like to get something a little bit 8-22-05 44 1 firmer in that area before we make a decision on -- on this, 2 which is not going to be today. So, I mean, we have budget 3 workshops for a couple more weeks, but I really think that 4 -- you know, I just have a real hard time doing this unless 5 we can figure out a way to save some manpower in bodies. 6 And I hate to be so blunt about it, but we have got to 7 control our, you know, growth in that area. A lot of study 8 shows that we're fairly heavy, as a county, in number of 9 employees, and -- and not any specific department, just in 10 general. Just general overall number of employees. 11 MS. UECKER: I think you'll also see that on 12 that report that shows us as heavy, that my office is not -- 13 is pretty much in line. I can see where it will keep me 14 from adding employees, most definitely. 15 MS. PIEPER: Well, gentlemen, I have one 16 criminal deputy, one civil deputy, one juvenile deputy, so 17 it's hard to cut employees in that area. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything further from anybody 19 on the Court? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. I think we'll 21 pick up some of the other questions in budget. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: It's a budget matter, and 23 we're going to wrassle with it. But I think we need to -- 24 as Commissioner Letz said, we need to be able to look at 25 something that we can, as Buster would say, wrap our arms 8-22-05 45 1 around in terms of specific efficiencies that will hopefully 2 be more convincing about the utility and efficiency of this 3 system. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, beyond that, it's 5 not just that we -- you know, this is something that we 6 want. We can't afford it. I mean, we're looking at a 7 choice between a cost-of-living increase or a new computer 8 system. You know, that's a pretty tough call. 9 MS. UECKER: Well, I think -- I think the 10 Auditor had -- you know, had some -- John might be able to 11 help -- John Trolinger. I think the Auditor had some 12 solutions. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Finance plan. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Finance plan helps. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He has some ideas, 17 but he hasn't presented them yet. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: I think we're generally aware 19 of those, and those have been discussed in a general sense, 20 but we'll talk more about those in budget. Anything else 21 from anybody on the Court? We'll move on to Item 8, 22 consider and discuss a report on Kerr County Information 23 Technology System Efficiency. Commissioner Letz, you asked 24 that this be placed on the agenda in conjunction with 25 Mr. Trolinger. 8-22-05 46 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. This was a report 2 that we asked Mr. Trolinger to put together several months 3 ago to look at each department and kind of assess the status 4 of technology in each department. And I thought it would be 5 useful maybe for him to go over this in front of the full 6 Court. I appreciate it. I think it's some good 7 information, so I'll turn it over to John to go over it in 8 whatever departments he wants in the next five minutes. 9 MR. TROLINGER: Okay, thank you. I 10 highlighted the -- with an executive summary what I've 11 broken down by department, or by sometimes a general group 12 of users. The first example of general users is what's been 13 called Nondepartmental in the past, and that's on Page 2. 14 Nondepartmental are the telephone systems, computer room -- 15 the network, everything that binds the systems, the 16 computers, the printers together. I spoke a little bit 17 about e-mail; that's a nearly completed project. And 18 training. The highlight on training is that it's been 19 nearly nonexistent in the past for our computer users. That 20 includes even basic training on, you know, how to turn it on 21 and log in and password, user name, security, some basic 22 things like that. And I identified those as key areas that, 23 with a little bit of user training, that user can be much 24 more efficient in their daily tasks. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: John, will you go back to 8-22-05 47 1 your first item under telephone systems? 2 MR. TROLINGER: Yes. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Your statement is that 4 this should be put under I.T. Department. And I guess the 5 phone audit would cost $3,500, according to you. Is that 6 what you're saying? 7 MR. TROLINGER: Yes. We've got a quote for a 8 phone audit, basically, to look at each one of the lines. 9 It's a day or two at each phone switch for the courthouse, 10 the Sheriff's Office, Road and Bridge, Juvenile Detention 11 Facility, to examine the lines and the services that we're 12 paying for now, and find any excess or any improvement 13 long-term. Now, by rolling the phone system into the I.T. 14 Department, that gives us the -- the possibility of going 15 forward to integrate the telephone system using our computer 16 network instead of using plain old telephone lines, 17 telephone lines that cost anywhere from $30 to $45 -- $40 a 18 month right now, using the existing lines that we've got in 19 place for the computers instead of using separate lines for 20 the telephones. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, you're saying right 22 now we have computer lines that we don't use, instead of -- 23 we're using telephone lines? 24 MR. TROLINGER: Basically, we've got the 25 capacity -- or the ability to increase the capacity on the 8-22-05 48 1 computer network, and we can take advantage of that and 2 use -- and bring the telephone calls over the -- what's 3 called voice-over IP, which is basically voice over the 4 network, versus using telephone lines that we've purchased 5 for a monthly cost. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You see some savings 7 there? 8 MR. TROLINGER: I do. The initial portion 9 was the long-distance bid. I see that we can reduce in the 10 courthouse for outgoing telephone lines about $1,400 per 11 year savings by changing to -- from plain old telephone 12 lines to voice-over IP. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: $1,400 a year, or 14 $1,400 a month? 15 MR. TROLINGER: Per year. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Per year. 17 MR. TROLINGER: Relatively small, but it's an 18 initial start. It pushes -- it starts pushing that traffic 19 from the conventional telephone lines over to the network, 20 so it can get a grasp on going forward, you know, how -- how 21 efficient it's going to be, how much it's going to save us. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you have the ability to -- 23 the capability to do this audit in-house, or some semblance 24 of it? 25 MR. TROLINGER: Fortunately, one of our 8-22-05 49 1 vendors -- one of the -- one of the vendors that's bid on 2 the long-distance service has come in and volunteered their 3 time and logged in the phone switch and looked at a few 4 things for me. But the capability to actually delve into 5 the telephone switch and examine it, I don't have that -- 6 that training or that -- really, it's a long process. It's 7 sort of like being a -- a mechanic on a specific vendor's 8 vehicle. It's a one-shot thing, and you don't use it again. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do I understand you 10 correctly in this paragraph, John, that essentially we have 11 two, three, maybe four separate systems; courthouse, jail, 12 juvenile, and Road and Bridge? 13 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, we do. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And there certainly 15 should be some economy of scale if we were able to pull that 16 together; is that correct? 17 MR. TROLINGER: Yes. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that a logical 19 assumption? 20 MR. TROLINGER: It is. And, long-term, it is 21 possible to pull them together. There's a couple of 22 contract issues, and it is a long-term, you know, multi-year 23 effort to gain some efficiency with the phone system. The 24 rest of the report I broke down by department, what I saw 25 was -- was needed for next year, what's been done the past 8-22-05 50 1 five years, give you an outlook of the big picture. For 2 instance, the Commissioners Court, I can see that there 3 wasn't any -- any money allocated for computers or 4 networking. That -- we can put a network -- a computer 5 network here in the courtroom and start the ball rolling on 6 getting y'all integrated on the -- on the level that the 7 City Hall or somebody like that's doing now. Get some 8 computers in front of you and reduce some of this paper, and 9 then be able to distribute and -- and reduce the load that 10 the court coordinator currently has, especially, on a weekly 11 basis of dealing with the nine copies of the agenda. The -- 12 for the Judge's court, the calendaring, the bench view -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What page are you on? 14 MR. TROLINGER: On Page Number 5, excuse me. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can you go through each 16 department briefly and kind of give us just the status of 17 where they are? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would be good. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Kind of what you found? 20 MR. TROLINGER: It'll be more than -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 22 MR. TROLINGER: -- the allotted time. Okay. 23 Adult Probation, even though they're not part of the county 24 budget, I included them because they do use our courts 25 package, the Odyssey system that we've discussed in the 8-22-05 51 1 previous item. This rolls them in. They're planning for 2 it. We're moving their network in the direction they need 3 to go. County Attorney, Hot Checks. Significantly, the Hot 4 Checks program in place now is provided by a single vendor, 5 and that -- although it's very good support, very good 6 program, I still recommend long-term that The Software 7 Group, which will provide the courts package -- that the 8 County Attorney move away from that -- that proprietary to 9 that in-house system and integrate it with the courts. 10 There's also a great need with the County Attorney's office 11 to get the paper files scanned or -- or get them originated 12 electronically, and I think it would be very important for 13 the whole court system that if all these were attached to 14 the case electronically, it would -- it would streamline 15 incredibly the paper handling that's going on now, the 16 chasing down files especially. I understand they still need 17 paper, but this is going to make everything available to 18 everybody in the court system. 19 County Clerk, you've heard from her. She's 20 done really well this past year. We've gotten her some -- 21 her people some training. We've gotten some new computers 22 using existing budgeted funds. But, to get the rest of her 23 computers and her network up to speed significantly, I've 24 recommended that she -- she budget next year for additional. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Additional computers? 8-22-05 52 1 MR. TROLINGER: Additional computers. 2 Networking and printers are one of the larger items. The 3 printers that they use now just aren't modern and won't work 4 with the new system. They need a little conversion, where 5 -- in order to start using plain paper, we need to stop 6 using a particular type of printer, and that's a big cost. 7 If you look at how much is being spent on receipts and 8 special paper, for instance, it adds up to a large number, 9 and I thought it would be significant if we could 10 standardize 8 and a half by 11 paper, that type of thing, 11 for receipts. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 13 MR. TROLINGER: On Page 4 is Justices of the 14 Peace. Significantly, J.P. 4's now coming into the existing 15 system that we have here. J.P.'s 1 through 4 will be 16 operating basically the same software, and there's a big 17 efficiency there. A piece that's missing that I have not 18 written in the report is the constables. The constables 19 need to be rolled into the courts package. The significant 20 software outlay we're talking about takes care of that. 21 District Clerk, Linda's more than well explained what I've 22 written here, and I'll go by that. Juvenile Detention is 23 probably the largest user of minutes for long distance. I 24 wanted to bring them in initially as part of the first long 25 distance voice-over IP. Unfortunately, because of their 8-22-05 53 1 internet connection, that's not going to happen this year. 2 They have a slower speed DSL line versus a broadband 3 connection. I'd like to see it move that way. I understand 4 that the Juvenile Detention -- they've removed all the 5 recommended line items that I've given them from their 6 budget, so we're stagnant, basically. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What will it take to 8 get them up to speed? 9 MR. TROLINGER: As I wrote, the -- the 10 voice-over IP, the -- to get the long distance telephone 11 service reduced requires getting a cable modem or better 12 service, maybe even fiberoptic line in the future. That's 13 the second paragraph. The -- in order to integrate the 14 detention facility operations, the -- the way that they 15 handle people, the way that they document people, Software 16 Group's offered to develop that just for our detention 17 facility. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: At no cost? 19 MR. TROLINGER: At no cost. Free with a 20 capital F. And those are the two major items that I saw for 21 detention. Page 5, I've discussed the first item. The 22 County Jail and the Sheriff's Office, you've heard from the 23 Sheriff specifically on all of these bullet points, except 24 for the last paragraph -- or second to the last paragraph, 25 which is the access from the vehicles and the -- and 8-22-05 54 1 requesting it in his budget. It's a significant cost to put 2 laptops in the vehicles and to have, most importantly, that 3 wireless access to the County network. And I thought I'd 4 highlight that for y'all. Page 6 is the County Tax 5 Assessor/Collector. You have heard from Paula. She needs 6 to -- she needs a new system. She needs something to reduce 7 the paper and the ledger books that she has now. She did 8 not budget for computers next year, and that's why I 9 specifically broke out the new computer and equipment, and 10 that includes printers also. 11 Environmental Health, the -- the key piece 12 there is going to be the mobile capability. It's exactly 13 the same system that the Sheriff would have for his patrol 14 vehicles, laptop wireless access and the equipment that's 15 needed to mount it and secure it in place. It will give 16 them access to their network back at the courthouse. They 17 can have online maps in the future, and certainly, their 18 existing data, you know, and being able to trade e-mails and 19 whatnot makes them more efficient today. They did not 20 budget for that, and that's why I specifically put that in 21 -- in this report. County Treasurer -- Commissioner Letz, 22 you asked me to look at a county-wide time reporting system. 23 I looked into that. I found there are several methods being 24 used to report time to the Treasurer's office. None of them 25 are efficient. Generally, in the best case, someone is 8-22-05 55 1 typing into the computer the time records and then printing 2 that out, and then presenting that to Barbara's office in 3 paper form. 4 MS. NEMEC: Right. 5 MR. TROLINGER: Which they're taking and 6 retyping into the computer. The -- the financial package 7 that's part of the software outlay takes care of that. It 8 makes the time cards electronic. It makes the supervisor or 9 even the -- all the way down to the individual, if they have 10 a computer, able to do their own data entry where it's 11 approved by managers and then finally transferred 12 electronically to Barbara's office, and significantly, 13 available for y'all to review if you decided to take a look 14 at it; for some reason, you need numbers on it. That's 15 probably the largest piece I saw for the Treasurer's office. 16 The Auditor takes -- takes part in that same system. It 17 basically reautomates them and streamlines how they do 18 business, integrates them with the Treasurer's office 19 completely, whereas now there's -- I see a little bit of 20 back and forth, not too much, up -- and up and down steps 21 trying to move paper. 22 Road and Bridge, I wasn't able -- I didn't 23 have a whole lot of luck getting -- getting a big picture of 24 what they do. I'd like to bring them in. They have a phone 25 switch. They have computer systems. They have a large 8-22-05 56 1 database of every road that's in the county, and I think 2 going forward -- not this next year, maybe the next year or 3 the year after -- we should integrate the process with 4 Central Appraisal District, 9-1-1 Commission, and Road and 5 Bridge in the process of keeping up this database of all our 6 roads and bridges, especially for the Sheriff's Office. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's -- I wanted to 8 make sure Leonard was back there. Leonard? I want him to 9 hear the comment that was in there that this department 10 actively refused to cooperate in the efficiency study. 11 That's something Mr. Trolinger said. Is -- is there a 12 reason for the statement in here? 13 MR. ODOM: Is Leonard Odom's name on that, 14 sir? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, sir. But I have the 16 person that's in charge of I.T. saying that your department 17 did not participate with him, in his mind. 18 MR. TROLINGER: We had a sit-down with Truby 19 and the -- a couple of Commissioners, and basically she said 20 no, she didn't want to change and wasn't going to. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 22 MR. TROLINGER: I made an attempt to work 23 over several months with her, but that's the bottom line. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's kind of 25 distracting that that would happen, 'cause this was a 8-22-05 57 1 Court-ordered study, and for one department to refuse to 2 participate in the study -- e-mail conversion is kind of 3 a -- 4 MR. ODOM: I think that's -- 5 MR. TROLINGER: And, to Truby's credit, she 6 runs a very good operation with the -- with the computers 7 and the phone switch and how she does everything. It's just 8 the portion where -- integrating in with the county e-mail 9 and integrating the phone system and internet connection 10 was -- the answer was no when I asked. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think you need to go 12 out there again; I think you'll get a different answer. 13 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. And that's why I 14 brought to it your attention. That's what I needed; I need 15 your assistance with it. City of Kerrville, Ingram City 16 Marshal, I'd like to see them integrate, and we're on the 17 path to doing that. Couple of small steps. Ingram City 18 Marshal now has a computer. The Sheriff's patrol officers 19 and also the Ingram City Marshal use that system. They're 20 looking at using our database to do look-ups. The Ingram 21 City Marshal reported that they've had some hits or they've 22 found some things that they wouldn't have otherwise. The 23 City has a computer, and we're attempting to move that 24 computer into their dispatch so they can access the county 25 database, probably not this next year, but the year after. 8-22-05 58 1 We'll see. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question. There's 3 someone in the audience -- I'm trying to figure out, is this 4 why Lieutenant McCutcheon's here? No, it's not? Why's he 5 here today? 6 MR. TROLINGER: I've just spoken with the 7 Police Chief and with -- and with his lieutenant, I believe 8 it is. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- so, this -- the 10 Odyssey system will enable better communication from the 11 Sheriff's Department into the City's computer system and 12 Ingram's? Is that -- 13 MR. TROLINGER: The idea for the City and 14 Ingram City Marshal is not only the database access, but 15 also at the jail for bookings. Currently, there's -- 16 there's a process that goes on that makes paper -- that uses 17 computers and makes paper, which then goes into a file, 18 which then is typed into the computer again. This 19 integrates -- by bringing the City onto the system, that 20 eliminates that issue. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The Sheriff has a 22 question. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The only thing this 24 would do -- system would do right now, Jonathan, is give the 25 City of Ingram and the public ten times greater access into 8-22-05 59 1 our information that they could use. It does not give us 2 any access into their information. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it's probably -- the 4 City needing access to yours is probably -- 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's the -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- a greater need than 7 you needing access the other direction. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: By far. And they 9 could -- and it could help drastically. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So they can keep track of 11 what's going on with, you know, inmates and things of that 12 nature. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Cases. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, just one quick 17 question to Mr. Trolinger. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Going back to the 20 telephone issue at Juvenile Detention, would you work with 21 Ms. Harris and see if you can determine maybe what the 22 average telephone usage cost is for -- per year -- per annum 23 for maybe the last couple years so we can get a fix on what 24 we're spending there, so we can compare it to what the cost 25 would be to fix it? 8-22-05 60 1 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. I did that with 2 her, and in a sit-down meeting, we pulled those files and -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And share that with 4 us at budget time. Okay, thank you. 5 MR. TROLINGER: You're welcome. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mr. Trolinger, if we 7 were to purchase and put the Odyssey program in place, do 8 you see any reduction in your staff? (Laughter.) 9 MR. TROLINGER: No, sir. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner, that was the 11 reason for my question about if he had the capability to do 12 the phone audit, if we could squeeze that out of him too. 13 But -- I was going to ask him if he could do that in his 14 spare time, but I thought better before I asked the 15 question. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Maybe one minus one 17 puts us back to where we used to be? 18 MR. TROLINGER: I would like to spend a lot 19 more time working on the county web site, providing more 20 public information. I think we've got a lot of niches that 21 need to be filled, a lot of cracks that need to be filled, 22 that are missing. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: John, on that -- 24 MR. TROLINGER: Existing today. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On the web site, are all 8-22-05 61 1 departments using the county web site, or do all departments 2 have their own web site now? 3 MR. TROLINGER: The majority have the -- have 4 their web pages, which is just one single page with a brief 5 explanation of the department and personnel on the county 6 server. The Sheriff's Office and, you know, Jannett's -- 7 the County Clerk's have separate off-site providers. The 8 Sheriff's is free, so it's simple to justify. Jannett is 9 making an attempt to do some land records -- to make it 10 publicly available, but at a fee, to increase her -- her 11 flow with the land records consumers that she has. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It seems inefficient to 13 me to have multiple -- and confusing to have multiple web 14 sites, but I understand how it got started, is because the 15 County didn't have a web site that was being maintained 16 properly previously. I don't -- anyway, that's an area that 17 it would make a lot of sense to me to try to get everybody 18 on the same web site. And possibly the Sheriff do something 19 a little bit different, 'cause he's a bit different. 20 MR. TROLINGER: I've had a lot of requests to 21 enhance the web pages. I could take a week's vacation and 22 work on it and -- and revamp it to the point where I was 23 ready to be able to customize and provide full information 24 that the -- that my customers want. Linda, for instance, 25 she wants quite a few little pieces to -- to bring the 8-22-05 62 1 public in and -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It seems that we're -- 3 MR. TROLINGER: -- give some of the data 4 input. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If we do figure out a way 6 to pay for the new computer system, the idea is to get the 7 public involved where we have to have a web site updated and 8 coordinated with each department to be able to do that. 9 MR. TROLINGER: The majority of the new 10 system is actually web access, is the basis of it. 11 Providing -- exposing the public to whatever the officials 12 -- Linda, Jannett -- decide they want to expose to the 13 public. If they want to expose their cases, they're -- 14 MS. UECKER: Are you talking about Odyssey? 15 MR. TROLINGER: Yes. 16 MR. TYLER: There's a lot of design work that 17 we'll do. Basically, you'd start out at kerrcounty.com and 18 then you'd have all your links to all your separate 19 departments, and all that information would be there. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other question for 21 Mr. Trolinger? We thank you for your report, and we 22 appreciate your work, Mr. Trolinger. Thank you. 23 MR. TROLINGER: Thank you, Judge. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll move to Item 9, update 25 the Court on Senate Bill 6 relating to protective services 8-22-05 63 1 that requires Commissioners Court to establish a family 2 protection fee. Ms. Uecker? 3 MS. UECKER: For your information, my office 4 will stop using expensive receipts -- paper receipts on 5 September 1st. We're just going to use plain paper and do 6 the rest electronically, so it's a big expense. Senate Bill 7 6, previous statutes made it permissible for counties to 8 establish child or family protection programs, or the fee. 9 Senate Bill 6 now requires the county to establish a family 10 protection fee. It changes the language to allow the 11 Commissioners Court to set a family protection fee not to 12 exceed $30, and it's to be charged on all divorces and 13 annulments. Half of the fee remains with the county and is 14 to be used only to fund a service provider located in the 15 county or an adjacent county. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Help me understand 17 that particular sentence, please. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Why adjacent? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Why adjacent? 20 MS. UECKER: I don't know; that's what the 21 bill says. And I think the reason for that is -- and I can 22 give you a good example. Bandera County, probably they're 23 not going to have the need for a family protection plan, but 24 they can establish a fee to maybe send to Kerrville, because 25 we provide services for Bandera County as well as some of 8-22-05 64 1 the other smaller counties. And I think that is probably 2 the reason for that statement, is so that they can help fund 3 another county with the services that they provide to their 4 home. The other half of the fee goes to the Comptroller. 5 It also adds $100 to a conviction on a sexual offense of a 6 child. The money is to be -- that money stays with the 7 county and is to be used only to fund child abuse prevention 8 programs in the county. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Who -- who puts those 10 programs on right now? Who administers those programs? 11 MS. UECKER: Well, I think there's a few, and 12 I'll give you some options here in just a -- 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 14 MS. UECKER: -- just a second. The big 15 problem is -- I mean, it's not a problem, but it's just the 16 Treasurer and/or the Auditor, whoever does that, is going to 17 have to establish two additional dedicated funds just 18 because of this bill. The bill's effective September 1, but 19 the fee goes into effect -- because of the State's fiscal 20 year, it starts January 1. The fee starts January 1. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: '06? 22 MS. UECKER: Mm-hmm. Yeah, of '06. I have 23 '05 on there. Some of the agencies here in the county that 24 provide those services are -- you know, my recommendation 25 would be for this money to go to the Hill Country Crisis 8-22-05 65 1 Council, which is probably the biggest provider of family 2 protection services, including child -- or CASA, or the 3 other one would be the Court-Appointed Special Advocate that 4 Rosa Lavender funds. Some of that money could go to her, I 5 would think. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: You mentioned that it would 7 require two dedicated funds. Is not the purpose of both of 8 those charges a single purpose? 9 MS. UECKER: I -- well, one is for family 10 protection; the other one is for child abuse. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Children only? Okay. 12 MS. UECKER: Child -- just children only. 13 The $100 on the conviction of sexual assault cases would go 14 to the -- you know, I handed to Mr. Letz a request for an 15 A.G.'s opinion that just came out that questions the 16 constitutionality of the funds being used to support 17 agencies that do not directly support the judiciary. So, 18 pending the outcome of that request, I -- I think our only 19 option is to proceed. And, of course, my -- my 20 recommendation would be, you know, the $30, which is the 21 maximum. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the $100 conviction 23 fees, that's mandatory? 24 MS. UECKER: That's -- mm-hmm. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We don't need to act on 8-22-05 66 1 that? 2 MS. UECKER: No, you don't act on that. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move we -- 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Who -- excuse me. I 5 don't think it's styled for a move. 6 MS. UECKER: I'm sorry? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is it styled for 8 action, the agenda item? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think you're right. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mr. County Attorney? 11 MR. EMERSON: No, sir. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He's shaking his head no. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Merely for information 14 purposes. 15 MR. EMERSON: Yes, sir. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the way I see it. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But -- 18 JUDGE TINLEY: If what I'm hearing from you 19 is correct, Ms. Uecker, with regard to the $100 on a 20 conviction, that's -- that's put in place by the statute 21 that imposes the fee. 22 MS. UECKER: Right. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: With regard to the family 24 protection fee, that's something that Court action is 25 required on? 8-22-05 67 1 MS. UECKER: Right. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And required before 9/1? 3 MS. UECKER: Well, I guess I didn't word my 4 request right, but I did put in there in the last sentence, 5 "require the Commissioners Court to establish the family 6 protection fee." I think the intent is there. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The bill -- I mean, it 8 doesn't go into effect till September 1? 9 MS. UECKER: Right. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The fee's not 11 collected till January 1, so we could do it any time before 12 September 1. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Before January 1. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: September 1. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: September 1? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, we'll see each 17 other between now and then. I think it's -- to clear it up, 18 I mean, with the fee especially, I think it's -- we need to 19 just -- 20 MS. UECKER: You mean my requirement to the 21 Commissioners Court to establish the fee is not clear 22 enough? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's the word 24 "update." 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 8-22-05 68 1 MS. UECKER: Well, it's a two-part -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's up to the County 3 Attorney, to me. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If he says we can do 5 it, we can do it. 6 MS. UECKER: I think it's a two-part 7 statement. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We can bring it back 9 next week. It's not that big a deal. 10 MS. UECKER: Okay, that's fine. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We'll bring it back. 12 MR. EMERSON: Bring it back. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Bring it back. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I think that's the safe 15 approach. Thank you. Anything further on that particular 16 agenda item? Let's move to Item 10, implement the increase 17 in the Alternative Dispute Resolution fee from $10 to $15 as 18 provided by House Bill 282. 19 MS. UECKER: All this bill does is it raises 20 the A D.R. fee, the Alternative Dispute Resolution fee, from 21 $10 to $15. I don't -- and we have already established this 22 fund. This is just an increase that has to be approved by 23 the Court. And I don't know if Ilse Bailey here, the 24 president of the Board of Directors of the A D.R. Board, 25 wants to say something, or -- 8-22-05 69 1 MS. BAILEY: I'd just like to say a couple of 2 things. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where do these fees 4 come from? They come out of the courtroom? 5 MS. BAILEY: They're filing fees, court 6 costs. 7 MS. UECKER: On every civil case. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: On every civil action? 9 It doesn't have to do with a divorce or annulments or -- 10 MS. UECKER: That's right. 11 MS. BAILEY: That's correct. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. And -- 13 MS. BAILEY: And that goes into a fund that 14 is limited to payment only for mediation-type services. The 15 Court has been generous enough to fund this Hill Country 16 A.D.R. Center with those funds for the past three years now, 17 and I'd just like to report to the Court that the center has 18 been very, very successful, where we're just growing by 19 leaps and bounds. I think we're resolving a lot of cases, 20 and thereby saving the taxpayers a lot of money on the back 21 end, because people are not having to pick juries and go to 22 trial and use court -- the services. So, I think that it's 23 been a very successful operation, and I think that it's 24 clear that mediation is a growing area of -- of part of 25 legal services that we find in the community, and we really 8-22-05 70 1 encourage you to continue to support the center and to 2 increase this fee as allowed by the legislation so that our 3 increased operations can continue to be funded on an 4 expanded basis in coming years. We thank you so much for 5 the support you've shown in the past. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move we increase the 7 fee for alternative dispute resolution from $10 to $15, as 8 provided by HB-282. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 11 approval of the agenda item. Any question or discussion? 12 All in favor of that motion, signify by raising your right 13 hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 18 Before we break, let's go ahead and try and take care of 19 Item 11. Update the Court on Senate Bill 1704 relating to 20 jury service, and set new juror reimbursement. We may have 21 an agenda wording issue here; I'm just giving the County 22 Attorney a heads-up. Ms. Uecker? 23 MS. UECKER: This bill now provides that for 24 the first day of service, the Commissioners Court to set a 25 fee not less than $6 for the first day of service. Now, 8-22-05 71 1 that would include jurors that are actually selected, like 2 in County Court or J.P. or County Court at Law. Most of 3 those trials don't last more than one day, so they would 4 still get that -- that first-day fee. After that, it will 5 be required that the Court set a fee not less than $40 for 6 reimbursement to jurors, and that would probably -- you 7 know, that would just apply to those either 12 or the six 8 that are seated and serve. The good news is, is this money 9 will go to the Comptroller, and the County may then file a 10 claim for reimbursement for $34 per day after the first day 11 of service. Now, that means $34 regardless of what the 12 Court sets that reimbursement at. In other words, if you 13 would set that fee at $50 rather than the $40, we could 14 still ask for reimbursement of $34. 15 Let's see. It says that the Commissioners 16 Court shall apply for the reimbursement, but I would suggest 17 that that would be something that the Treasurer would need 18 to do. The Comptroller will pay the claims that we request 19 orderly, and only if those funds are available. If they're 20 not, they will prorate it out, you know, to the counties 21 that have requested that reimbursement. To offset the 22 increase, $4 is to be added to every conviction of an 23 offense that was committed after September the 1st of 2005. 24 It also -- this is exempt under the Government Code, Chapter 25 51, so although the -- the fee increase will -- for the 8-22-05 72 1 jurors takes place January the 1st, but we will start 2 collecting that $4 on September the 1st, so we will have 3 some money coming in to pay those jurors. 4 Now, the suggestion that comes from the 5 District Courts, and I would concur, is to set that 6 first-day fee at $15, and the second day or from thereafter 7 at $40, is what the minimum is. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are we currently at $15? 9 MS. UECKER: We're currently at $6 to report, 10 $15 to serve. So, in other words, if you -- if you report 11 today and you're picked today and you serve today, it's $15. 12 If you report today and you're not selected, it's $6. Now, 13 the reason I -- I think it would not be fair to leave it at 14 $6 for the first day is because what would happen is, on all 15 of these cases where the jurors come in, say, to -- and the 16 County Attorney has a one-day DWI trial, if we left it at 17 $6, those jurors that actually sat there all day long would 18 just get the $6. So -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do they still have the 20 option of donating to another cause? I can't remember. 21 MS. UECKER: They have the option of donating 22 to the county's child welfare or the state's crime victim. 23 Of course, we -- we encourage -- where's Rosa? We encourage 24 them to donate it to the local -- the money that stays with 25 the county rather than that that goes to the state. So, you 8-22-05 73 1 know, to -- well, we'll -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: There'll be no differentiation 3 between those that reported and those that served the first 4 day, though? 5 MS. UECKER: Right. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 7 MS. UECKER: Mm-hmm. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I thought if we change 9 it -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: If we change it, there 11 wouldn't be any differentiation either, would there? 12 MS. UECKER: You mean the $15? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. 14 MS. UECKER: From $6 to $15? Right. Right 15 now, there is -- you do differentiate. If you report and 16 don't serve, you get $6. If you report on the same day and 17 you do serve, you get $15. You don't get $6 and $15, but 18 you get $15. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Your proposal for the first 20 day, however, is that all persons who report or serve are to 21 receive $15 for that day? 22 MS. UECKER: That's the only choice you have. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 24 MS. UECKER: I -- 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Does that apply to 8-22-05 74 1 grand juries as well as -- 2 MS. UECKER: This applies to also grand 3 juries. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, do we have to take 5 action, or is this -- since we don't have a choice? 6 MS. UECKER: You have to take action. And my 7 request says to set a new jury reimbursement fee. The other 8 thing I think we need to do that came up later was, since 9 Kerr County saves a lot of money by paying their jurors in 10 cash, because of the increased fee, we need to increase the 11 petty cash funds, and I don't know if that is going to 12 require Court action or not, if -- if it does. In other 13 words, right now I'm holding $2,700 in cash at all times to 14 pay the jurors. We can replenish that by requesting money 15 -- you know, a check from the Treasurer. I think the County 16 Clerk is holding $1,000 and the J.P.'s are holding $400. 17 I'm requesting to go to $6,000, and Jannett to $2,500, and 18 the J.P.'s to $500. I'm not sure that that's going to 19 require -- Barbara, would that -- 20 MS. NEMEC: A court order? (Nodded.) 21 MS. UECKER: Okay. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How did you establish 23 the present-day numbers? 24 MS. UECKER: The present-day? Just from 25 using the money. I mean, that was kind of what I based on 8-22-05 75 1 how much jurors and what it costs is -- you know, the 2 average length of a trial. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, you think you need 4 a court order now to change that number? 5 MS. UECKER: Well, the amount that it is 6 currently was set as a part of the plan to pay jurors in 7 cash. When I came years ago to do that, that amount was 8 set. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That was prior to 10 computers, I might add. 11 MS. UECKER: Yeah, it was. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think you still had 13 the pigeons communicating. 14 MS. UECKER: Pigeons going around. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Linda, I'm a little 16 confused as -- just on one point. The -- why can't we leave 17 it $6 to report, $15 if they serve, and then $40 for the 18 second day? As opposed to going $15 if they report or 19 serve? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what I thought 21 she said at first. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: That's why I asked the 23 question. 24 MS. UECKER: Well -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Because it -- 'cause 8-22-05 76 1 that's what I would be in favor of doing; $6 to show up, $15 2 if you serve, and $40 for the second or any subsequent days. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. That's the 4 way I read this. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a question. 6 MS. UECKER: That's fine with me. I -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That was a motion. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, let me ask a 9 question. If a juror -- if a juror gets $6 just for being 10 in the jury call, right? 11 MS. UECKER: Mm-hmm. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And if that juror, 13 during the course of that day, is selected, then that $6 14 automatically goes to $15? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: If you vote for Letz's motion, 16 it would. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Then -- then a 18 second day would be $40. I second your motion. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 20 said jury pay at $6 for the first day if they report but 21 they're not selected, $15 for the first day if they report 22 and are selected, and $40 for second and subsequent days. 23 Any question or discussion? We have a gentleman in the 24 audience. If you would identify yourself, please? 25 MR. MOORE: Morning, I'm Ed Moore. The 8-22-05 77 1 second day, say the jury has not been selected. All people 2 that appeared the first day that weren't selected are still 3 there to be selected. Are they getting $40 a day? 4 MS. UECKER: Yes, sir. 5 MR. MOORE: Thank you. 6 MS. UECKER: And that would -- that would 7 only more than likely happen in high-profile cases, like a 8 capital murder or the Cailloux. That's going to be not that 9 often. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 11 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 12 your right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We'll 17 be in recess for 15 minutes. 18 (Recess taken from 10:37 a.m. to 10:55 a.m.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. If we could, please, 20 let's come back to order. We were in recess for 15 minutes. 21 We'll resume and go to Item 12, consider and discuss the 22 approval of the Tom Green County contract approved by the 23 Kerr County Attorney for placement of juveniles at the Kerr 24 County Juvenile Facility, and authorize the County Judge to 25 sign same. Yes, ma'am? 8-22-05 78 1 MS. HARRIS: This is a placement contract 2 with Tom Green County for the next -- next fiscal year for 3 Tom Green County to place kids with us. County Attorney has 4 looked at the contract and has approved the contract with no 5 changes, and so I'm just asking for the Court's approval for 6 Judge Tinley to sign the contract with Tom Green County. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Question, Ms. Harris. 8 On Page 1 under Article 2, where it talks about level of 9 care, state price per level and type of facility and all 10 that good stuff, there's an "X" under state price per level. 11 What does that mean? 12 MS. HARRIS: That means -- see, the facility 13 takes Level 4 and 5 kids. We are classified as a 14 specialized treatment facility. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. And -- and the 16 per diem rate would be one of those two rates that's stated 17 there, or would it be a lesser rate? 18 MS. HARRIS: It would be a lesser rate. The 19 $83 a day is what we charge. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. That's all 21 subject to -- that, too, is subject to discussion at budget 22 time, correct? The level of our rates, that's a budget 23 consideration, but for now it would be -- 24 MS. HARRIS: Yes. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what they 8-22-05 79 1 would expect to pay. 2 MS. HARRIS: Yes. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And if the rate 4 changed, any and all of these contracts, -- 5 MS. HARRIS: That's -- 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- those counties 7 would be notified as such? 8 MS. HARRIS: Yes. As a matter of fact, a lot 9 of the counties -- remember, the Court approved an automatic 10 renewal every year, and so some of those contracts have 11 already been automatically renewed because they came up in 12 July or August, and if you change the per diem -- if the 13 Court chooses to change the per diem, then we're going to 14 have to send addendums to every one of those contracts. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That is a 16 possibility. So moved, approval. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 19 approval. Any question or comments? All in favor of the 20 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Thank 25 you, Ms. Harris. Let's move to Item 13; consider, discuss, 8-22-05 80 1 and take appropriate action to rescind offer to contract 2 with Excavation Technologies, Incorporated, for debris 3 cleanup of Flat Rock Lake. Commissioner Williams? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, Commissioners, 5 the Court approved a revamping of the amount of money we 6 wished to expend for that project back on May 9th. After 7 that, I communicated -- subsequent to that, I communicated 8 with Mr. Caudill of the Excavation Technology folks down in 9 Alvin and restructured for him the amount of money the Court 10 was -- advised him the amount of money the Court was willing 11 to spend and number of hours we thought we were willing to 12 pay for, and asked him to forward the contract back to us 13 and to indicate that he was ready to start work in 14 September. I've never heard back from him on the May 11 15 contract, which sort of suggests he doesn't like the reduced 16 amount of fee that we're going to get. So, I'm asking the 17 Court to officially rescind that. 18 There are some other things that are going to 19 be happening that perhaps I'm going to address the Court at 20 a later date about. One of them is the bridge that links 21 the two sections of Flat Rock Lake Park and the work that's 22 ongoing with Mr. Odom. There's some funding that might be 23 required for the piers and pier abutments and so forth, and 24 I have a need for some of those funds perhaps in another 25 direction, which would go toward an infrastructure need -- 8-22-05 81 1 infrastructure need in the Center Point community, but I'll 2 leave that for another date. Right now, all I want to do is 3 rescind the order and clear out the dollars. So moved. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 6 approval of the agenda item and rescission of the 7 outstanding offer. Any question or comments? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Question. Are you 9 giving up all hope of removing those gigantic pipes from out 10 of the middle of the river that we put in there? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For this budget year, 12 yes. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And all the stumps and 14 trees which -- 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Giving up hope for 16 this budget year. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And you're going to 18 take the 44 or whatever the amount was and build a bridge 19 and other things? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would be -- that 21 would be sort of a semi-plan forming in the back of my mind. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Which is probably -- 23 you're not going to tell us? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, I will tell you, 25 but not today. (Laughter.) 8-22-05 82 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I listened real 3 carefully. We're just getting the money back today; we're 4 not giving him any money. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand, but I 6 want to prepare him to tell me about it. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, I'm going to tell 8 you, in spades and in detail. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. I'll third that 10 emotion. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 12 comments? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 13 your right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I will 19 communicate to the gentleman in Alvin, Texas the Court's 20 action. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I appreciate that, 22 Commissioner. The next item, Item 14, is to consider and 23 discuss draft of Kerr County Facilities Booking and Rental 24 Policy. Who wants to take the lead on this? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, let me start 8-22-05 83 1 it. The long-awaited draft of the Kerr County Facilities 2 Booking and Rental Policy is in front of the Court. I think 3 it would be appropriate to explain, for the benefit of those 4 who are in the audience who have some interest in this, that 5 the process, while taking some time, was deliberate in that 6 we drafted the policy; we had Commissioner Letz and 7 Mr. Walston of the Extension Service and Mr. Holekamp of the 8 Facilities and I, and we worked through the first draft, 9 made the changes that were suggested by those gentlemen to 10 -- in the first draft, cleaned it back up, and now it's in 11 front of the Court for the Court's review and comment. Any 12 suggestions that are forthcoming today from members of the 13 Court for this draft will also be incorporated, and it will 14 be at that point that we will circulate it out to people who 15 have evidenced interest in knowing what the policy's all 16 about and who have been before us before speaking. We will 17 see that you get a copy of it and solicit your input, and 18 then we'll try to -- try to reconcile all of that input and 19 come up with a facilities policy that hopefully will take us 20 down the road a piece for the rental of the Ag Barn. That's 21 kind of the process. With that, I introduce the first 22 draft, Judge. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. Commissioner 24 Letz, do you have anything you want to weigh in on? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. I just -- I 8-22-05 84 1 appreciate Roy Walston and Glenn Holekamp's input on this; 2 they spent quite a bit of time going through it. And I also 3 appreciate, really, members of the community. Quite a few 4 of them have talked to me about it and provided input of one 5 type or another, and all that was kind of taken into 6 consideration to get to this point. And I think we're -- I 7 wish it hadn't taken so long; a lot of that was my fault, 8 and some significant illness situations with other people. 9 So, anyway -- but it's here. I guess it's a good step in 10 the right direction, and see what the rest of the Court 11 thinks about it, and then -- I wish Commissioner Nicholson 12 was able to be here today. I'd like to get his input on it 13 as well, 'cause a lot of his constituents are the ones that 14 use the facility. But -- 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I will solicit his 16 input, Commissioner. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But that's kind of where 18 I think we are today. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have a couple of 20 questions real quick. If you will define for me the words 21 "first request basis"? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, it's kind of 23 like -- I guess I can simplify it by saying first come, 24 first served. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. No 8-22-05 85 1 contract will be validated by the Facility Manager without 2 proper deposit or payment in full. The deposit -- did I 3 read somewhere in here that it would be at 50 percent? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I believe that's 5 correct. At least half of the base rental for the piece of 6 the facility you're trying to use, or the whole facility, if 7 that's the case. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And if -- if I -- if I 9 want to reserve the facility multiple times in a year -- 10 say, three, as an example -- I need to pay 50 percent or 11 half of the use for all three of those? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, I don't think so, 13 Commissioner. I think what we envision is that you put up a 14 deposit. You might want a multiple date or two. I think we 15 limited it to two, didn't we? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we -- no, we went 17 to every -- it's -- for every two dates, you have to put up 18 half of one rental. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And if you -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Say it again? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: For every -- I think -- 22 is that right, Roy? For every two dates that you want to 23 book it, you have to put up half of one rental. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, okay. Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And then -- 8-22-05 86 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: When you go four times, 2 it's one full -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- day's rental, and six 5 would be 1.5. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But when you complete 7 that rental date, the first initial rental date, that 8 deposit rolls -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- to the next one. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, the more you book it, 12 the more deposit you have to -- the more multiple dates you 13 commit at one time or want at one time, to hold those dates, 14 you have to put up more money. That's what the -- that's 15 what we tried to say. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One of the things that 18 makes it difficult on the deposits is because every building 19 has a different rate, and if you get everything it costs one 20 amount, so we went through a percentage as opposed to trying 21 to say it's $100 or $150. So, the more you're renting or 22 committing, the more your deposit's going to be. And that 23 was kind of -- which is not the way we're doing it right 24 now. Now it's a flat fee. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Paragraph 4 says it, 8-22-05 87 1 really. A lessee utilizing the facility for more than two 2 events per year may be issued a multiple-date contract which 3 allows the lessee to hold two dates with a single deposit. 4 The deposit rolls over after each event and is applied to 5 the next date of the calendar year that has been reserved by 6 whomever. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Go ahead and do the 8 next sentence while you're there. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, okay. However -- 10 is that what you're talking about? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: However, if the 13 lessee drops one of the dates, Kerr County may apply, at its 14 discretion, the deposit to the canceled date and request 15 other deposits for any and all future dates. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Deposits are due at 18 the time the contract is signed, and the balance is due not 19 10 days -- not less than 10 days before the event. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Commissioner, we may want 21 to add another sentence in this paragraph to -- that 22 addresses more than two events. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you talking about 24 Paragraph 4? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. If you read that 8-22-05 88 1 second -- the sentence that says -- which allows them to 2 hold two dates with a single deposit, it's -- it's multiple, 3 so if you go to three dates, it's two deposits. If it's 4 four dates, it's -- you know, it's half of -- or -- 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you want to change 6 from more than two events to say up to three events? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it -- we need to 8 make it clear that if they hold, like, eight events -- they 9 can hold as many as they want. If it's eight events, 10 it's -- 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Four deposits. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- four deposits. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's half of whatever 14 you're booking. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Half of whatever you're 16 booking. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: One deposit for each two 18 events. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that's what 20 we're trying to convey. Let me take a look at it, see if we 21 can clean it up a little bit. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, if I -- if I'm the 23 first guy -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: First in line. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- first in line, and 8-22-05 89 1 I want to book the facility for 10 events through the year, 2 I'm required at that point to pay in full for five of those 3 events? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, you're going to 5 deposit equal to 50 percent of the base rental, so you'd put 6 up five times 50 percent of the rental, whatever that is. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Well, actually, 8 that's what I was saying. But -- and there is no cap on how 9 many times a year that I can rent the place? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I can rent it 20 times 12 if I want to, or I can -- if I have the money, I can rent it 13 every weekend. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, there's some 15 blackout dates. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If you got enough 17 money, we'll sell it to you. (Laughter.) 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Would you kick in the 19 Juvenile Detention Facility? That was good. I still want 20 those pipes out of that river, though, Bill. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I do, too. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. What do we do? 23 I like what I'm seeing so far. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we'll bring it 25 back at our next meeting after we've looked at it. After 8-22-05 90 1 that point, we'll give a final approval on it, then send it 2 out to the community at large, and specifically to anyone 3 who's given us their name that they'd like to get a copy of 4 it, get their input. I think we'll have it in place by 5 October 1. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If you got any other 7 comments or sections that you want us to take a serious look 8 at -- I see the Judge has got a lot of notes there. Where 9 are we, Judge? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: I've got one or two. Sure do, 11 Commissioner. If I'm reading this correctly, the -- this 12 booking policy gives no priority to historical users up to 13 this date; is that correct? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, it does. It 15 talks about tenured events. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Number 3. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. The tenured events with 18 regard to that paragraph, I think there may be a language 19 change there in the last sentence. "Mitigate" should 20 probably be "mediate," but that's a language change. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mediate? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. With regard to 23 Paragraph 2 -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: -- the three years in advance, 8-22-05 91 1 that is only applicable to multiple-day events which are 2 consecutive, and those which are sanctioned by a national 3 organization, the way I read that. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: My thought is that that may be 6 too restrictive. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, the idea was -- 8 and we're not locked in stone here; we're trying to figure 9 out what's best. The idea was that, for planning purposes, 10 the types of events that Sudie Burditt of C.V.B. typically 11 engages in, a lot of those need to nail their dates down 12 well in advance. If we were to have -- if our facility 13 would enable us to have -- what is it, P.R.C.A. rodeo? 14 That, too, would have to be pretty well confirmed sometime 15 in advance, because those schedules fill up and they want to 16 know where they're going to go. But if you see some need 17 for a language change, tell me what it is. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I think one of the 19 things that caused me to believe that it may be too 20 restrictive is there appears to be a requirement that the 21 event, in addition to being a consecutive multiple-day 22 event, also must be sanctioned by a national organization, 23 and I'm -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let's examine the 25 word "sanctioned," see where that takes us. 8-22-05 92 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It could be -- like, the 2 Texas Brangus Association is not a national -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Or the local home builders, 4 far as that goes. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or local home builders. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Only one I know about 7 that falls into this category is -- is this dog -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Agility? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, the dog agility 10 show. That is state, I think. Maybe national; I don't 11 know. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I guess my question is, are we 13 being too restrictive with the sanctioned by a national 14 organization language? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I see your point. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: And, secondly, requiring it -- 17 that it be a multiple-day event, as opposed to a single-day 18 event. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, we talked about 20 the multiple-day events, and remember what our discussion 21 was there, Jon? Because we added consecutive multiple-day 22 events to -- Roy, do you want to come up here and help us 23 out? 24 MR. WALSTON: I think what we were talking 25 about on the multiple-day events was getting us into -- 8-22-05 93 1 getting us away from these every weekend -- weekend 2 programs, to where if somebody was coming in that was 3 working with C.V.B., it was usually a three-day program. So 4 that we didn't -- it wasn't -- if somebody came in for a 5 one-day event, they could -- they didn't book it three years 6 in advance, if I remember that right, if that's -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. It was because 8 the big -- the events we're really trying to address here 9 tend to want -- we want them to be there for more than one 10 day. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Surely. 12 MR. WALSTON: We want to encourage those 13 multiple-day events, the bigger events that's going to be 14 here for more than just a weekend or a day or two. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Would it help any to 16 add the word "state" there? State or national organization? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Local home builders 18 wouldn't qualify, then. I think you'd probably almost 19 delete "sanctioned by" anything. I think it's conventions, 20 horse and cattle shows -- "such as conventions, horse and 21 cattle shows." Or -- 22 MR. WALSTON: I think we had in mind -- the 23 national, we had those in mind, but I don't know that we 24 really wanted to eliminate the -- the local ones either, you 25 know. 8-22-05 94 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, we don't want to 2 eliminate them. We just want to make certain that an 3 organization that needs -- has a need -- an organization 4 outside of Kerr County -- 5 MR. WALSTON: Uh-huh. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- or outside the 7 hill country that has a need to establish dates, far -- 8 far-reaching dates going way out -- two, three years out, 9 multiple dates -- isn't blocked out. If "sanctioned" is a 10 problematic word, let's find another one. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How about if you say, 12 "such as conventions, livestock shows, trade shows"? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Conventions, 14 livestock shows -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And trade shows. And 16 delete the "national organizations." That kind of -- 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Something to toy with there. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: It's just a -- I guess that 20 the issue is, how restrictive do we want to be? 21 MR. WALSTON: Well, one of the things that I 22 thought, the three years in advance would give these people 23 that use it yearly on the same weekends or during the same 24 time frame, they are -- they're able to see three years from 25 now -- you know, they may have to move their weekend one way 8-22-05 95 1 or another, so that gives them the ability to do some 2 schedule changes. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. In Paragraph 5, I'm not 4 sure whether there is not sufficient explanatory language or 5 whether we got a conflict or both. It talks about, at the 6 beginning of the bottom of the page, "The balance due for 7 rental is payable not less than 10 days before the event." 8 Then there's a sentence dealing with governmental entities. 9 Then it says, "All other organizations must pay fees due by 10 the conclusion of their event or as otherwise specified in 11 the contract. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Just an issue of if there's a 14 conflict, we need to -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you pay 10 days 16 prior or do you pay at the end? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ten days prior. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Ten days prior. I'm 19 drawing a blank. Do you remember that, Roy? 20 MR. WALSTON: Put the deposits up, and then 21 the 10 days prior, you pay the remaining of it -- the 22 remainder of the events, what I was under -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The Judge's question, 24 though, is it appears that we have kind of a conflict in 25 that we're requiring not less than 10 days up, and we're 8-22-05 96 1 exempting governmental entities who pay by purchase order, 2 and then we're saying "all other organizations must pay fees 3 due by the conclusion" -- oh, that's fees, other fees. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. I think it's, 5 like, use fees, like if they're there an extra hour or 6 something, or one of the -- 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why don't we just add 8 "other"? That's what that is, Judge. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Other fees. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: I didn't know whether it 12 pertained to that, or possibly pertained to nongovernmental, 13 but nonprofit, for example. Maybe that -- 14 MR. WALSTON: Setup fees. This refers to 15 setup fees, take-down. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Setup fees and using a 17 number of chairs and some of that. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So if we add "other," 20 that takes care of that, would it not? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It might be clearer, 22 though, if we added that as a new paragraph, the fee 23 section -- the fee payment in a separate paragraph, so we 24 don't confuse it when deposits are due. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I thought I saw a 8-22-05 97 1 tear-down fee somewhere else in here somewhere. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, setup and take-down fee 3 is in Paragraph 16. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let me see where it 5 might fit better; I'll make a note of that. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there always going to be a 8 requirement for any setup or take down? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not always. 10 Sometimes events will come into the arena for which a setup 11 took place, and a subsequent event either uses that setup or 12 doesn't -- whatever. And so not always is there a necessity 13 for setup and take-down fees. Take-down and re-setup. 14 MR. WALSTON: If we're able to use it the way 15 it's set up. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: So, in that case, there is no 17 setup/take-down fee. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There would not be. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. A little language 21 change on Paragraph 6, first sentence. Six months or more 22 prior to the event, rather than outside, I think. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Six months or prior. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Or more prior. And then, of 25 course, you've got the "within six months" in the following 8-22-05 98 1 sentence. With regard to Paragraph 13 -- excuse me, 11 -- 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Paragraph which, 3 Judge? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: 11, where it talks about free 5 use. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: In the last bullet under that, 8 other events held by county elected officials or 9 departments. Is that too restrictive? Could there not be 10 other requests for free use? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Such as? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Nonprofits asking for a waiver 13 under certain circumstances, coming before the Court. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, this is for 15 events by -- held by county elected officials and department 16 heads, not nonprofits, which is a different category. 17 Sheriff's Department -- he does a Christmas party or 18 something like that. And -- don't you? 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes, we do that once in 20 a while. The one other thing that Judge Tinley may be 21 considering is the -- the Mounted Peace Officers put on an 22 educational deal each year where we have the fire 23 departments, KPUB, everybody out there with different 24 things, sometimes even the safety -- 25 MR. WALSTON: Safety Awareness Day. 8-22-05 99 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay, Safety Awareness 2 Day. That's not technically a -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- you know, county 5 elected official or department, but that is a definite 6 educational deal put on by us and everybody else to educate 7 kids. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that would 9 qualify. I mean, your department could come and request it. 10 I mean, I think what we're trying to say -- 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Which I think is what we 12 did last year, if I'm not mistaken, is my department 13 requested it. But it's -- it's us and Kerrville P.D.; 14 everybody's out there. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Kind of trying to say 16 that if some elected official/department head has some use 17 that they want it to be exempt from, they can come to the 18 Court and ask for it to be -- fees to be waived. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: I guess there's a general 20 exception that anyone can -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: -- request the Court to waive 23 fees or reduce fees or -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: -- deviate generally. 8-22-05 100 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think they can, but I 2 think the intent of these rules are, we don't. I mean, if 3 you're a nonprofit, you need to pay it. The County should 4 not subsidize all nonprofits. That's where we're going with 5 this. It's a -- it's -- there's a cost to the taxpayers, 6 and -- you know, to operate that facility, and we should not 7 ask all taxpayers to subsidize certain nonprofits. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: With regard to Paragraph 18, 9 available hours -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: -- it has Sunday through 12 Thursday, 7 a.m. to 11 p.m., Friday and Saturday, 7 a.m. to 13 midnight. I notice there was another hourly charge for 14 holding over -- 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: -- somewhere here. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. It's in that 18 same paragraph, last bullet there. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Is that first bullet 20 meant to state that as of midnight on Saturday -- Friday and 21 Saturday, for example, that there can be no further use of 22 the facility? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, it just means 24 you're going to pay for it. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay. 8-22-05 101 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What is that rate? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It would be the -- it 3 would be the base rental divided by the number of hours that 4 you'd use the facility. Establish an hourly rate. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We probably ought to put 6 that rate here. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Somebody needs to come 8 up with that number to make it clear up front. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Define the charge, 10 okay. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I think it's part of the 12 entire rate schedule for -- 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It will be. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: The use schedule, the -- the 15 other things, such as tables, chairs, all that other stuff, 16 that was going to be on a separate exhibit to be attached, I 17 believe. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right, and there will 19 be an hourly rate established there. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got another 22 question, Judge, if you're through. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, go ahead. I'm sorry. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: First-come, 25 first-served basis. 8-22-05 102 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Which we're finding 3 that that's really the only way you can do this thing 4 properly. Now, let's say that I go to the -- whoever's 5 going to do the booking, and I go there and I set up my tent 6 at 3:00 in the morning so I have first shot at this thing. 7 Doors open at 8 o'clock, and I'm first. And I walk in and I 8 plop down my money, so I've booked my little thing. Is it 9 going to be available for a company out of Dallas to make a 10 phone call and book it? And if the answer is yes, over the 11 phone, if they say, "I want to book it for 'X' amount of 12 days," and you say, "Okay, it's going to be 'X' amount of 13 dollars, and you're not booked until we receive that money," 14 in the meantime, if somebody else walks in and reserves 15 those same days with cash on the spot, how -- how is that 16 picture worked out? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Did you put your 18 money up when you had your requested -- or you just made the 19 request for the date? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I put my money up, so 21 mine's booked. I understand that. But I'm really working 22 off this phone call thing. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What did we talk 24 about? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the -- I mean, in 8-22-05 103 1 reality, there -- it's a rolling process. So, you know, 2 today's the 22nd. The 22nd next year, you know, is open 3 after today. And it's not like it's the -- we start the 1st 4 of the year; then all of them have to be done that date. 5 So, it changes throughout. And I think that the -- you 6 know, there's -- with a tenured event, if you're doing it 7 ongoing, you have a little slight edge to get that same date 8 again the next year. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, a phone call would 10 do that? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Phone call could -- well, 12 you have to get the money in. I mean, just calling the date 13 isn't -- you better have your thing mailed so it's here. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. So, in the 15 meantime, so when this check is in the mail and I come in, 16 or Joe Blow off the street comes in before the check arrives 17 and I want that same date, what happens? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't know. We ask 19 Glenn or whoever's doing the booking. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's always been a 21 major sticking problem. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In Number 3, I think 23 we tried to address it, Commissioner. I'm not sure we did 24 it adequately, but we tried to, when we say that no date may 25 be held without a contract and deposit. Tenured events are 8-22-05 104 1 those events that have used the facility for two or more 2 years, and they're allowed to have first option on the same 3 dates for the next year. Any conflict of dates caused by a 4 request of the lessee or by calendar, the Facilities Use 5 Manager will mediate variations, and that decision will be 6 final. We left it in his hands. I don't think we want to 7 be here, you know, arbitrating -- or mediating date disputes 8 constantly. Somebody has to do it, but we don't want to do 9 it. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean -- 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't want to. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- I don't know how you 13 really get around the issue that Commissioner Baldwin's 14 talking about. I mean, down the road, we're going to have 15 online booking, I think, so then you're going to have, you 16 know, online bookings and telephone bookings and people 17 coming in, and -- you know, so it's got to get worked out. 18 We don't have -- there's not a contract; you don't have it 19 reserved until we have the money. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with that. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And how we get, you know, 22 that other part of it, I would say you have to start going 23 through, and if we start having a lot of problems in that 24 area, maybe we can figure out, you know, some way to do them 25 all online. That way it's sorted out by the computer or 8-22-05 105 1 something. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I guess my next 3 question is, can I set my tent up on county property? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We won't tell the 5 Sheriff. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Did we sufficiently massage 8 that one? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Got any others, 10 Judge? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: No, I'm good for now. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. I will get 13 comments from Commissioner 4, and we will try to come up 14 with another draft after that. I won't bring it back to the 15 Court at that point, but we'll distribute it among those 16 folks who have requested to have input or be heard on this 17 issue. I think I have most of their names in the file that 18 I have on this. And if there -- and we'll have other copies 19 available for folks who show up and want a copy and want to 20 read it. And I think we'll try to -- I'd say we probably 21 ought to set a date when we want to try to get this 22 concluded. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think it may be 24 nice to have it, as a lot of things, October 1. We should 25 be able to get it back by our next meeting, and -- 8-22-05 106 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Provide it at our 2 next meeting? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or at the next meeting, 4 so we can approve it at the next meeting and then send it 5 out for pub -- for comment during the month of -- basically, 6 month of September. Or, say, half of September, anyway. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, I can get -- I 8 can get these changes made. You want the Court to approve 9 this before we send it out for discussion purposes? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think so. Judge is 11 saying no. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I just think that once we get 13 our comments rolled into it, we ought to give the public a 14 shot at it. And I think it would be understood that we've 15 got our comments in it. I don't know that there's any 16 requirement that we formally approve it in a draft form. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So we can go ahead and 18 really approve it today to be sent out to the public after 19 Commissioner Williams makes the few changes that we 20 discussed today? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't see any reason why we 22 couldn't. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree, we could. 24 Except for Number 4's comments. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I -- well, he's going to -- 8-22-05 107 1 he's going to get his incorporated. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I didn't style the 3 agenda item for -- for action. I said, you know, 4 consider -- consider it and discuss it. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Consider it is consider 6 action. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that action, as 8 far as you're concerned? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: "Consider" is. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Consider and discuss? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Consider approving. I 12 mean, most of ours are styled consider and discuss. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Fine with me. If 14 everybody's happy, I'm fine. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: See, if you got those 16 pipes out of the river, you wouldn't be having these 17 problems. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Anyone have any other 19 questions about this? Mr. Moore? 20 MR. MOORE: Ed Moore again. You're concerned 21 about someone being at the door versus someone on the 22 telephone? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 24 MR. MOORE: At the door, they're going -- 25 they should pay cash, check, or something in the way for the 8-22-05 108 1 rental. If I make a telephone call, it would be simple 2 enough to put in there that in the case of an absentee 3 person telephone call, moneys must be received no later than 4 five days or the date will be left open. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a good option. 6 MR. MOORE: It will work. You give a 7 reasonable amount of time for the system to work, but you 8 have to put a "no less," I think. So -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Within that five days, 10 there's a possibility of losing some contracts. 11 MR. MOORE: But he -- that's life. You have 12 a reserve on it that way, anyway. That's the way I feel. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, we appreciate your 14 comments. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good suggestion. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But no action is 18 required; we're just going to just send it out and -- 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll try and get it 20 completed and then back to the Court for final approval 21 within a month. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And sent out for -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll get it sent out 24 before that. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that we probably 8-22-05 109 1 ought to approve it subject to you making your modifications 2 and getting input from Number 4, and then set a date that we 3 get -- we'll receive comments, and set the time that we're 4 going to have a meeting on it or a hearing on it, so to 5 speak. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not do it all today. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Make a motion. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Are you suggesting that maybe 10 we actually set a public hearing on it, even though we're 11 not required to do it? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sure. We've had lots of 13 input on this one. You know, you want to make sure that -- 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Lots of interest. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I make a motion that we 16 approve the draft of the booking policies -- Kerr County 17 Facilities Booking and Rental Policy, ask Commissioner 18 Williams to incorporate the comments today and also the 19 comments from Commissioner Nicholson, and then make the -- 20 that revised draft available for anyone to pick up at our 21 offices and mail the draft to anyone who has requested it, 22 and set a hearing or that policy for the second -- our 23 second meeting in September. Which is what date, Kathy? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: 26th. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Got it. 8-22-05 110 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Set a public 2 hearing -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or a public meeting. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. And final 5 approval? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: For final approval. 7 Well, I think we actually probably do the hearing 8 September 26th, and depending on the comments we receive, we 9 may do it and we may approve it, or we may want to revise 10 it. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, we can put it 12 on both ways and see what happens. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Any particular time on that 16 public hearing? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 10 a.m. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: 10 a.m. Motion made and 19 seconded. Any further question or discussion on the 20 agenda -- on the motion as made? All in favor of the 21 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. The 8-22-05 111 1 next item on the agenda is to consider and discuss 2 procedures for the paying and reporting of expenditures 3 involving penalties, fees, interest or other costs 4 associated with late payment or or administrative system 5 failures. Commissioner 4 asked that this be placed on the 6 agenda. I don't know what the Court's pleasure is with 7 regard to proceeding forward or waiting till Commissioner 4 8 can be with us to discuss this item. What's the Court's 9 pleasure? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm reading his last 11 sentence here. It says, "I propose a court order requiring 12 such expenditures to be reported to the Commissioners 13 Court." Now, is that reported by the County Treasurer to 14 the Commissioners Court? Or is this one of those things 15 that the County Judge is notified in the mail by letter, and 16 the County Judge reports to the Commissioners Court? I 17 think you need to get more specific if you want a court 18 order. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree. It raises a 20 question when you're talking about notification of 21 expenditures, notification of -- of late penalty. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Or even the imposition of the 23 fee, or the application of the fee. So, I -- I gather that 24 we want to wait on that? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd have a hard time 8-22-05 112 1 voting today on it. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's pass on that one, 3 then, and we'll take that up again at the request of 4 Commissioner 4 or any other member of the Court. The next 5 item on the agenda, Number 16, consider and discuss 6 establishment or clarification of policy regarding Kerr 7 County employees payroll/paycheck direct deposit program. I 8 put this on the agenda. I was pleased to see that the 9 Treasurer is wanting to get a direct deposit program. My 10 concern is that if we're going to have such a program and be 11 able to obtain the -- the efficiencies that are available 12 from a direct deposit program, that it needs to be one that 13 is mandatory as opposed to voluntary, where we're not, in 14 essence, running what we were running before -- or the 15 Treasurer isn't running what she's been running before, and 16 in addition, running something else. I realize that may -- 17 may require some action on the part of some of our 18 employees. I think anybody who's been involved with any 19 sort of receipt of government entitlement, Social Security 20 or things of that nature, have pretty well accepted the fact 21 that they're going to insist on direct deposit, and I think 22 the efficiency to be gained is -- is gained as a result of 23 having it applicable across the board. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess my only question 25 I have is, can we do that? Can we make it mandatory? And I 8-22-05 113 1 have no idea. I wouldn't know where you look. I see two 2 people raising their hands. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: My only comment right 4 off the bat would be, I probably have some employees, 5 especially jail employees or clerks, that don't even believe 6 in checking accounts or bank accounts at all, that would not 7 have a direct deposit. And I don't blame them for that. 8 Some people are going to want it; some aren't. I don't 9 think you should make it mandatory for everybody to have to 10 do it and they have to go out and get one. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I think that's 12 a valid point, Sheriff. Also, I was curious -- I'll ask 13 Ms. Nemec, is there any -- any difference in the fee the 14 bank will charge us if all of the employees don't exercise 15 this option? The fee -- the fee is the fee, right? 16 MS. NEMEC: There is a set feet no matter how 17 many employees are on direct deposit or not. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Three or 300; doesn't 19 make any difference? 20 MS. NEMEC: That's right. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One thing, I think -- I 22 mean, I agree with the -- the Judge, I guess, you know, the 23 thought process to -- let's do this and make it, you know, 24 as county-wide as possible. But I think that we need to 25 leave an out for those that don't want it. And I would make 8-22-05 114 1 it mandatory, unless -- rather than you make it proactive 2 that they have to sign the forms to get it -- well, I guess 3 they have to sign the form anyway, or you wouldn't know the 4 accounts. But that it's mandatory that they do it unless 5 they opt out. 6 MS. NEMEC: We've had a lot of feedback from 7 employees. You know, the ones that have been wanting this 8 for a long time are really glad that we're implementing 9 this. There has been a question of other employees, whether 10 it is going to be mandatory at some point or not. Right 11 now, I have the legal department at TAC checking into that, 12 and I'm waiting for a phone call from them. The problem 13 that -- some employees have banking accounts and they just 14 want their check; they don't want it going into their bank 15 account. Other employees do not have a checking account or 16 savings account, and I have a problem in that if we make 17 this mandatory, we're asking them to go open up a checking 18 account, and there's fees involved in that. I just don't 19 know that we can make them pay those monthly fees to open up 20 a checking account to go on direct deposit. I mean, for my 21 office, it would be much more efficient to do that. It 22 really would. But we're still going to have to print out a 23 backup -- the backup stuff for them anyway. So, you know, I 24 just don't see how we can make it mandatory. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I kind of like the 8-22-05 115 1 book-of-the-month club method of operation. Make it 2 automatic. It's going to be automatic as of a certain date 3 unless you opt out, and then let those who don't want to do 4 it opt out. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It sounds good, except 6 they still have to fill out the form; otherwise, they won't 7 know the bank account number. 8 MS. NEMEC: Right. They have -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Only thing I know is 10 my only personal experience. I enjoy coming in here and 11 seeing Kathy and her handing me my paycheck, and me doing my 12 little checking book thing and filling out the deposit slip, 13 and then going to my bank and visiting with those -- I mean, 14 that's part of my life, and I don't want the government to 15 mandate to me that I can't do that any more. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Buster doesn't want 17 Debbie to know how much he's actually making. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I was just going to 19 say, he doesn't want Debbie to know how much he's hiding out 20 of that check. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I got a feeling 22 Debbie's going to find out now, thanks to my friends. 23 (Laughter.) 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You're welcome, Buster. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But that's the redneck 8-22-05 116 1 in me, I guess, but I like it. I'm proud to be a redneck, 2 if that's the case. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd be interested to find 4 out legally what the answer is to that question, 'cause I -- 5 that certainly has -- I think it's probably better to leave 6 it the way it is; let's see what the usage is in the next 7 couple of months. 8 MS. NEMEC: So far, we have 103 employees who 9 have signed up. So far. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a third, huh? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's the deadline? 12 MS. NEMEC: Excuse me? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's the deadline? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Last Wednesday. 15 MS. NEMEC: Yeah, last Wednesday was the 16 deadline. Of course, we've been talking to the bank, and 17 the bank's been coming over and visiting since January. 18 Last year was their fourth time -- last week was the fourth 19 time that they've been here, and we're still working out 20 some stuff with The Software Group and things that need to 21 be implemented. And so it looks like it's going to -- you 22 know, we were hoping to have it all done for the next 23 payroll, but it doesn't look that way, so that date's going 24 to be extended to still give employees the opportunity to 25 sign up. And, of course, that -- you know, we can set a 8-22-05 117 1 deadline, but any time an employee wishes to come in and 2 say, "Okay, now I want direct deposit," we'll do it. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are all banks and 4 credit unions set up for -- 5 MS. NEMEC: Yes. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- direct deposit? 7 Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're setup is with 9 Security State; is that correct? 10 MS. NEMEC: Security State and The Software 11 Group we need to implement it. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, what an employee 13 does with you is identify his or her bank account, account 14 number and routing number, and then -- 15 MS. NEMEC: Correct. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- Security State 17 takes care of that; is that correct? 18 MS. NEMEC: Correct. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: One suggestion -- and 21 that does happen; I know K.I.S.D. does the same thing. And 22 what -- how theirs works -- and I don't know if Barbara has 23 this capability. How they encouraged their employees to 24 actually sign up for it without making it mandatory was, if 25 they signed up for it, their check -- I know this 'cause of 8-22-05 118 1 my wife's -- their check actually goes in two days earlier 2 than if they wait and get their check in their hand, okay? 3 So it actually allows it two days -- 4 MS. NEMEC: No, it wouldn't. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Wouldn't work with that? 6 I don't know; that's just what the -- the way the school 7 district works to encourage it. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, they pay different 9 anyway at the school; they average out your salary over -- 10 MS. NEMEC: This wouldn't work with us, 11 because on the 15th, we're paying through 5 o'clock on the 12 15th, and so for them to get their check two days early, 13 that means we're paying them for two days that they haven't 14 actually -- I mean, as it is, we're paying for a whole day 15 when they receive their check that morning, so -- 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Your -- your 17 authorization date for payment will be consistent with what 18 you do now? 19 MS. NEMEC: Yes. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: And you have a request 21 outstanding with TAC to see about the -- the propriety of 22 being able to require it or not? 23 MS. NEMEC: Right. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anybody have anything 25 further to offer on that? Okay. Next item, Number 17, to 8-22-05 119 1 consider and discuss approval of Kerr Central Appraisal 2 District budget. I put this on the agenda. We have been 3 furnished with a copy of the Appraisal District budget. I 4 believe we have a period of -- I believe it's 30 days from 5 the date of its formal adoption, which was, I believe, last 6 week, to either -- we can reject it during that period. If 7 we don't do anything within the 30 days, we're deemed to 8 have approved it, and so it's before you as to whether you 9 -- whether you want to do anything or whether you want to 10 approve it or reject it. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, do we have any 12 history, like the last three years or so, of what kind of 13 increases that they've had? I -- I can't -- by looking at 14 all these numbers, I don't see anything like that here, but 15 there sure could be. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My recollection is that 17 we have voted against this budget for the last several years 18 because of the cost-of-living increases were higher than the 19 County's. Not substantially higher, but, I mean, that's 20 neither here nor there. It appears to me that their COLA is 21 2.7 percent this year, which seems very reasonable. But 22 we -- usually Ms. Rector has made a comment on this, or 23 we've had -- you know, I'd really like to pass on this and 24 see if we can get -- 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 8-22-05 120 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- our representative to 2 come in here and go over it, or Fourth Coates to come or 3 Paula Rector, one of them come and give us a little bit of 4 input. But it looks, you know, closer to something I would 5 like than I've seen in previous years. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Am I seeing -- am I 7 seeing a 5 percent increase? Is that what I'm seeing? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what you're 9 seeing on the bottom, Commissioner, 5 percent of the whole. 10 But there are a couple items that caught your eye and caught 11 mine. Salary, 7 percent, which is what Commissioner Letz is 12 referencing, and the employer portion of retirement, 13 22 percent, which suggests to me that they are going up on 14 their contribution on retirement considerably above where 15 they were before. I don't know -- yeah, they are. They're 16 going up to 8 percent. I don't know where they were before, 17 but they're at 8 percent. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: County's at what? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What is ours, 20 Barbara? 21 MS. NEMEC: 7.9. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 7.9? 23 MS. NEMEC: It went down. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Maybe they're 25 catching up to us. 8-22-05 121 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: In order to approve or 2 veto the budget, it has to be approved or vetoed by the 3 majority of the government entities; county, city, school 4 district, I don't know who else. I think that's it, isn't 5 it? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Headwaters, U.G.R.A. probably, 7 whoever uses their valuations. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: And it's a weighted -- it's a 10 weighted vote, depending upon -- I believe it's depending 11 upon the actual tax imposed. I think the bottom line is, 12 the school district approves it. We're all -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's done. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There are about 19 -- 16 19 taxing entities listed in there. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd like to have -- still 18 have a representative come and kind of go over the 19 highlights, where they're going directionally. So, we can 20 put it back on our next agenda. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: The next item, consider and 22 discuss modifying proposed Animal Control contract with the 23 City of Kerrville. This was placed on by Commissioner 3 and 24 4. Do you want to run with that one, Commissioner Letz? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, I can. I've talked 8-22-05 122 1 to Dave a little bit about this, and the reason was, after 2 the EMS contract discussions, but really more how the City 3 bills for the airport management, I noticed some things that 4 I didn't think we were doing in calculating the reverse-type 5 contract, which is Animal Control for us, especially on the 6 administration side. For example, under the airport 7 management contract, which is -- the Airport Board or 8 airport gets billed for a portion of human resources from 9 the City budget and a portion for things of that nature. 10 So -- and we've never, to my knowledge, broken or added that 11 administration cost to our contracts above kind of what the 12 single page was. And if we're going to -- I think they 13 should treat us the same as we treat them and vice-versa. 14 So, in my mind, if we have -- I think there's 15 seven employees out there, so seven out of 300, whatever the 16 total employees is, that portion of Barbara's budget and the 17 Auditor's budget should be attributed as an overall 18 administration and added into administration in that 19 contract. I also think that they bill a portion of the City 20 Manager's salary and their upper administration, which we 21 don't have, but that is the equivalent of our salaries, the 22 Commissioners Court and administrative assistant. So, I 23 think a portion of that should get allocated as, you know, 24 administration of that. Dollars, I don't think we're 25 talking about much money. I mean, I'd guess a couple 8-22-05 123 1 thousand dollars, maybe. I mean, I don't think we're -- 2 it's not a huge number, but I just think that it's a way -- 3 something we haven't done. I mentioned this to Dave. He 4 concurred, and we're going to make just a slight change on 5 that. I thought we'd probably need to rescind the current 6 offer, make the adjustment, and send it back over to the 7 City. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, there's no action 9 to be taken today? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think we need to 11 withdraw the current offer that's -- current contract -- we 12 sent a contract over, I believe. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: I sent some information over, 14 but -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We didn't? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: -- that was just the 17 information on the operational expenses of the facility. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: There was no -- to my way of 20 thinking, there wasn't any offer extended to them. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. I wasn't sure 22 where we were on that part of it, because it was -- Dave is 23 the liaison; he's more aware. So, if that's the case, we 24 don't need to rescind anything, but I think we need to 25 advise them that there'll be a -- we're looking at the 8-22-05 124 1 administration portion of the contract. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And no action will be 4 necessary. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's move to Item 19 6 if no one has anything further on that. Consider and 7 discuss EMS contract and take appropriate action thereon. 8 Commissioner Baldwin? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sir, thank you very 10 much. I move we approve the '05-'06 EMS contract with the 11 City, and authorize the County Judge to sign that same 12 contract. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Would that be without 14 any conditions established, Commissioner? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The contract. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: As presented by the City? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you want to take 19 first crack at it? I'll take second crack at it. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't get a second? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not yet. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not even to clean this -- 23 I mean, the motion's there. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Kathy, do you want to 25 second it? 8-22-05 125 1 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion on the floor. 2 Any questions? Comments? Amendments? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I've got comments. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Lots of comments. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Pile on the comments. I 6 think everyone received a copy of the draft of the EMS Study 7 Committee that was discussed at our joint meeting with the 8 City last Friday. Commissioner Baldwin, I believe, got with 9 the administrative assistant; we have a draft of the -- you 10 know, the function of that committee, and then I made some 11 modifications to it. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My plan was that's 13 going to be a separate motion totally from the contract. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, okay, that's fine. 15 That being said, I guess my view is -- and there's a -- the 16 bottom portion of that memorandum or draft asked the City to 17 join in that study. I don't know that they are required to 18 join in the study. I would like to have an approved 19 contract for the year. The funding for the first six months 20 is as they -- as the City has requested in their proposal to 21 us, but after six months, I would like to look at what we're 22 asking the committee to look at, and then meet with the City 23 at that point. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think you and I are 25 probably on the same wavelength. It appeared we weren't the 8-22-05 126 1 other day, and I think those are just semantics in terms of 2 how we approached it. I believe we -- if we're going to 3 accede to this request for underwriting this service, I 4 think we have to budget that amount of money, if that's what 5 we're going to do. That's the amount we agree upon, and we 6 have to budget it for an entire year. And that's why I'm 7 wondering whether or not that's where you're coming from, 8 Commissioner, is that we include in our budget an amount 9 equal to the amount requested; because -- and I'll let that 10 sit right there with a semicolon, because there are things 11 that we'd like -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me answer that. 13 The answer is yes. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Okay. 'Cause 15 there are things that we -- I think we really would like -- 16 sincerely like to convey to the City with respect to the 17 issues that we brought to their attention. And, again, I'll 18 say it, and Commissioner Letz and I and Commissioner 19 Baldwin, we've all said it repeatedly. We have no problem 20 with the service from the time the dispatch orders a box to 21 leave the garage to the time the box returns to the garage. 22 It is those other things attendant to that; the 23 administrative side, the coding, the claims, the follow-up, 24 et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, and 25 we've said it over and over again. So, you know, if we're 8-22-05 127 1 able to convey back, as Commissioner Letz has outlined in 2 his draft here, the things we'd like to see accomplished 3 with this, and the -- within the framework of six months? 4 Is that what you're saying? Within the first six months of 5 the new budget year, then I'm on board. I really am. We'd 6 be budgeted for a year, but we want to see the study 7 committee agreed to and put in place, and we want the study 8 committee to have the various charges that go with a study 9 commission and so forth and so on. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm real close to that. 11 I mean, I'll phrase it slightly differently. I have no 12 problem budgeting $200,000 or whatever the exact amount in 13 the City's offer was. What I want from the City is a 14 commitment to open up their records and work with our 15 committee. They have not been willing to do that with me, 16 as an individual Commissioner, to go over and discuss how 17 they're doing -- how they do their billing, and that's what 18 I want. And their view has been that we're -- you know, 19 it's just a contractor/vendor relationship, and -- 20 contractee, I guess, vendor relationship, and that we 21 shouldn't be concerned with that, and I disagree with that. 22 I think that the County should have input on the billing 23 structure and rate charges that are billed to county 24 residents if we're being asked to pay the subsidy for those 25 -- you know, for that portion of the service. 8-22-05 128 1 So, what I'm saying is I have no problem with 2 what -- the motion Commissioner Baldwin put forward, but I 3 want it tied to the formation of the committee, and at least 4 them explaining or discussing with the County what their -- 5 what their rate structure is, which to-date, I haven't been 6 able to get out of them, and -- and, you know, in good 7 faith, negotiate. And also, in concept, agree with the -- 8 our premise that this should be, as much as possible, a 9 user-pay service, and that we should ascribe to get there. 10 That doesn't mean that we're ever -- that we're ever going 11 to ever get there; it means that we strive to get there. We 12 may always have a subsidy, but if we can lessen that 13 subsidy, I'm in favor of it. I think that's a -- you know, 14 we've talked as a Court a lot about that, and the City, to 15 my knowledge, has not acknowledged that that is the 16 direction they want the EMS program to go. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Nor have they 18 acknowledged that there may be deficiencies on the 19 administrative side. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. And there may not 21 be. I'm not accusing the City of -- 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I said "may be." May 23 be. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, I don't -- I mean, I 25 have no problem with approving the contract as presented, 8-22-05 129 1 but there is a -- a second part that they, in good faith, 2 discuss the issues that we've outlined to the charge of the 3 EMS Study Committee. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me see if I can light in 5 the middle of this thing somewhere. Am I hearing that there 6 is consensus that the Court approve the contract for the 7 coming year, subject to any mutually agreed upon changes 8 that may be made by the parties to that agreement during the 9 second half of the coming fiscal year as a result of the 10 work of this committee that we wish to have come in and 11 assist us and -- and accept the charge that -- that had been 12 suggested? Is that what I'm hearing? We're actually 13 talking about approving the contract for the year, but 14 leaving the door open for the -- after the six months for 15 the committee to work, that -- to try and forge any what 16 would seem to be appropriate changes after the committee 17 does its work for the second half of the year? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, and a commitment 19 from the City to work with -- commitment with the City to 20 work with our committee. I mean, it's kind of -- they have 21 all the information. If the City's not willing to work with 22 our committee, our committee can't do much. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, is there any 24 reason why -- we're talking about approving a contract, and 25 we've all seen that draft contract, and the draft contract 8-22-05 130 1 is -- is exactly the way City of Kerrville wants the draft 2 contract to read, not necessarily the way Commissioners 3 Court might want to amend that draft contract. Which leads 4 me to ask you the question, is there any -- is there any 5 particular reason why we couldn't suggest or offer, or -- 6 well, suggest or request that some of things we want to see 7 happen -- formation of a committee, examine these certain 8 issues -- any reason why that could not be included in a 9 paragraph in that contract, and set the time frame for which 10 this has to happen? That way we've got an agreement. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: No, no reason. But I think 12 the issue is, are you approving a contract for six months, 13 or are you approving a contract for 12 months, but with the 14 condition that during the first six months, the City will -- 15 will, in good faith, operate under these conditions with 16 this committee that we want? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's the latter. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, that's what we'd 20 all hope to happen, but I don't -- how can you -- how can 21 you put that in a contract? That if -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rex is raising his hand. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The committee could 24 come back with recommendations, and the City's going to 25 adopt whatever they said? I just don't -- 8-22-05 131 1 JUDGE TINLEY: No. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, no, no. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Doesn't say that. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's not my 5 suggestion, but we could put in the contract that within the 6 first six months of the year, a committee will be 7 established and they will examine the following questions 8 and report back their findings. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: We can put in the contract 10 that they cooperate with the committee during the first six 11 months of that contract, and upon that committee reporting 12 its findings, recommendations, whatever, in good faith 13 consider and negotiate with us with respect to those 14 recommendations or suggestions. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I like that. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rex? 17 MR. EMERSON: The only thing I want to point 18 out to y'all is that the City's given you a drop-dead date 19 of tomorrow. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 21 MR. EMERSON: To approve their contract, 22 period. And sending back an approval of their contract is 23 different than sending back an approval of their contract 24 with contingent actions on it. That's basically a 25 counteroffer; it's not an approval. So you may find 8-22-05 132 1 yourselves in somewhat of an awkward position tomorrow night 2 if City Council says we're not going to accept your modified 3 contract. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's true. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, that's true. But I 6 -- you know -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just think these 8 requests of, "Please work with our committee, and at the end 9 of six months when the committee reports to us, please sit 10 down and visit with us," that should be under a separate 11 letter of some sort. I just -- I'm real uncomfortable about 12 trying to incorporate all that into the contract itself. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess I'm just -- the 14 reason I would -- and I understand what Rex is saying. They 15 could say no, and -- you know, which would be the -- 16 probably the worst of all worlds from -- just to stay no, 17 we're not going to do it. But I think it would also show 18 the public something about the City's decision-making. I 19 mean, I -- I think that we could not get two councilmen that 20 attended a joint meeting to even agree to discuss any of 21 this stuff, and that's a pretty big problem in my mind. And 22 I really think I want to make it part of the contract, 23 personally. I'm willing to -- I guess, you know, if they 24 come back and say no, then I will have learned a whole lot 25 about the City's management, and then we can -- hopefully 8-22-05 133 1 they'll give us, you know, time to, you know, leave the door 2 open. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It would be in the 4 form of an addendum, would it not, Mr. County Attorney? A 5 proposed addendum to the contract -- 6 MR. EMERSON: Basically. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- you're talking 8 about? 9 MR. EMERSON: Sure, but the City's going to 10 look at it as a counter -- or not an approval. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't mind that. I 13 mean, if they -- like I say, if they choose to reject it, 14 they're going to have -- I mean, the other side of that is, 15 I mean, I can not help but think that the City wants us to 16 be in this contract with them as well. They have to -- they 17 have to cut staff if they don't, bottom line. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We can't go that 19 route, Jon, I'm sorry. We cannot take the chance of our 20 citizens being uncovered with EMS service. I mean, I know 21 where you're coming from, but we've negotiated this thing 22 down hard -- I mean, you guys have worked very, very hard on 23 this thing, and we're down to drop-dead date and we cannot 24 -- I just don't think -- I'm not going to take that chance. 25 I think we've got to sign the contract and let's move 8-22-05 134 1 forward, and hope that they will -- and as far as this 2 committee's concerned, it's going to be -- it's going to be 3 our committee. I don't care if they work with it or not. 4 It's going to be our committee that's going to advise the 5 Commissioners Court on -- on their findings. Now, at that 6 point, if the City doesn't want to sit down with us, then 7 that's when the public sees them for what they really are. 8 I just don't -- I think we're playing with something here 9 that we shouldn't be playing with. Much too dangerous. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I don't 11 disagree with you in terms of -- of taking a risk for 12 services. I don't want there to be a risk in terms of the 13 continuation of services. I really don't; I've said it 14 before. But I'm kind of -- I'm kind of with Commissioner 15 Letz; I really would like to have somebody acknowledge that 16 these are issues we need to address, and -- and a 17 willingness to do so. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, we tried sitting 19 here at the table the other day to do that face-to-face like 20 grown men, and you got absolutely zero response. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I got a no, is 22 what I got. (Laughter.) 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't even recall 24 that. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess Commissioner 8-22-05 135 1 Baldwin's point -- I guess -- you know, I think the service 2 is critical, and I think if we take this recommendation and 3 just approve it and they say no, well, I guess we know where 4 we stand also in that -- in that regard, and I think the 5 public will know where the City, you know, stands in that. 6 My -- what I would truly fear is going to happen is we're 7 going to be back here exactly a year from now, because 8 they're not going to have any -- without tying in a 9 commitment by the City, they're going to do like they did 10 last time. They canceled the contract last September, and 11 they didn't get a revised -- a proposed contract to us until 12 May 3rd. You know, it took them nine months to do it, and I 13 don't see why they're going to do anything different this 14 time, especially now that they don't have to. And -- but I 15 guess all we can do is air that in the -- put it on our 16 agenda every -- every two weeks and put it before the public 17 until the City's willing to explain to the County how 18 they're doing their billing and the rate structure and the 19 collections and some of their administration costs. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: I understand your concerns 21 about some of the administrative costs, Commissioner, but -- 22 and they're legitimate concerns. And I think, certainly, as 23 a user of that service -- or any citizen, as far as that 24 goes, has a right to that information just by requesting it, 25 and I'm -- I'm somewhat dismayed why the information hasn't 8-22-05 136 1 been offered up to you. But, as I said the other day, 2 I'm -- I'm concerned about the priorities that we have in 3 place at the time we have them in place. I think our number 4 one priority now ought to be the quality of service, and we 5 know what that is. Number two is the reliability and 6 continuity of service. We have a pretty good handle on 7 that. I think that's what the citizens of this county would 8 want us to look at, is priorities. Now, granted, you know, 9 there may be some efficiencies to be gained, but we don't 10 have the luxury of being able to have enough time to sort 11 those out at this point, so I tend to concur with 12 Commissioner Baldwin that -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that a second? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: No, I didn't say that was a 15 second. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, okay. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: That we have the -- we have 18 the -- we're in a position now, in order to guarantee the 19 type of service and the reliability of service to our 20 citizens that I think they want, to approve this matter. 21 And we can certainly request the City to join with us in 22 looking at this issue. I think we ought to form a committee 23 anyway, as you've said. And I've said that before, that we 24 need to -- to take advantage of this wealth of experience 25 that was made available to us the other day to look at all 8-22-05 137 1 these various issues involved in -- in emergency services, 2 and -- and hopefully we'll be able to get some good 3 recommendations and information presented to us, and the 4 City will see the benefit of that and want to work with us 5 on trying to implement some of those efficiencies and 6 improvements, assuming that there are some, and I think 7 there is some to be gained. But I think that's where we -- 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I have a 9 question of the County Attorney. What kind of cancellation 10 clause is in the draft that they sent over? 11 MR. EMERSON: I haven't seen the draft. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's a bit of a 13 problem right there. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, it is. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Little bit of a 16 problem right there. Does anybody know? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: There's a -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I've got a copy of it in 19 my office. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Would you get the file on that 21 big table? 22 MS. MITCHELL: Mm-hmm. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: If you could get that, I'd 24 appreciate it. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll second Commissioner 8-22-05 138 1 Baldwin's earlier motion. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion -- your motion 3 was to approve the contract? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: As submitted? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And -- 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a second? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second, and a possible 11 amendment. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We still need the 13 County Attorney to sign off. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I was going to say, 15 subject to the County Attorney reviewing the contract. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: My question has to do 17 with what happens if what we'd like to see happen doesn't 18 happen? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we can approve it 20 subject to his review, as we frequently do. And I think -- 21 I mean, we're back -- if there's a change, it's back to a 22 counteroffer; I understand that, but I just cannot 23 imagine -- because of a legal issue from the County's 24 standpoint. Is that acceptable, subject to the County 25 Attorney -- 8-22-05 139 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, absolutely. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Yeah, okay. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The Sheriff's got -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I've got a motion and second. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The only comment I would 6 have, and it seems kind of obvious to me, that as y'all have 7 gone round and round with the City and they have not been 8 willing to disclose anything or change anything and said 9 that it's a take-it-or-leave-it deal, I think the 10 committee's a good idea, but why don't you do the -- the 11 committee to research and see if the County -- and forget 12 the City, you know. You've got to sign a contract; you got 13 to approve it. We're on too short of notice. But see if 14 the County can take this six months to see if they can come 15 up with a better option for next year. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's part of this -- 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Not worry what the 18 City's doing. They've already closed -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is nothing to do 20 with the City. The proposed committee -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm not concerned with 22 what the City thinks about this committee at all. I just -- 23 I want them to research all of the issues, which I will read 24 here in just a moment and advise the Commissioners Court. 25 And if the City doesn't -- I cannot imagine the City of 8-22-05 140 1 Kerrville not allowing these geezers in there to look at 2 anything. I don't recommend them closing the doors on these 3 guys. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, they've closed it 5 on y'all. I mean, go ahead and start researching to see 6 what better deal the County can get. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, we're just 8 elected officials here. These are geezers. (Laughter.) 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, before you 10 call the vote, I would like to ask the County Attorney if he 11 can tell us what the cancellation clause is. 12 MR. EMERSON: I'll read you the whole 13 paragraph. How about that? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just give me a 15 summary. 16 MR. MOORE: How about a paragraph? 17 MR. EMERSON: Appears to be 90 days minimum, 18 written, but it's -- the termination paragraph is written 19 such that, without reading it probably another half dozen 20 times, I'm not sure if you have to have cause or not, or if 21 you can just terminate it. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 90 days? Is that 23 what you said? 24 MR. EMERSON: Yes, sir. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 8-22-05 141 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My other question is also 2 to the County Attorney, but it doesn't relate to that 3 contract. Based on the styling of the agenda item, we can 4 go ahead and appoint the committee? 5 MR. EMERSON: I think you're better off 6 doing -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, not -- I mean, under 8 our agenda, can we talk about a committee as well? 9 MR. EMERSON: I think you can talk about a 10 committee, but I don't think -- you're probably better off 11 with another agenda item to appoint the committee. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's what I was 13 worried -- that's what I thought. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: You don't think the 15 appointment of the committee would be -- 16 MR. EMERSON: I think the problem -- I think 17 the problem you're going to run into is that the case law 18 and A.G. opinions state that the more important an issue is 19 to the community, the more specific the agenda item has to 20 be. And I think that there's no doubt you can act on the 21 contract, but if you want to appoint a committee, I would 22 recommend that you have another agenda item. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, thank you. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can we -- but we could 8-22-05 142 1 probably -- we can't even do that. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Talk about it? He just said 3 we can talk about it. We can't take action on it. I mean, 4 we've already talked about a committee significantly here 5 today, I think. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Unless you're talking about 8 some other committee. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's probably 10 broad enough, personally, to take action on the committee, 11 but I'm not the County Attorney. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 13 discussion on the motion that's on the floor? All in favor 14 of that motion, signify by raising your right hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sign that thing, so in 20 case I need it tonight, that they'll come get me. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're not going to -- 22 we're under our contract now. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: October 1. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: October 1. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're okay. 8-22-05 143 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Did you have some things you 3 wanted -- is anybody here about the committee that I've 4 heard about? Want to talk about that? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What committee? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Between Commissioner 8 Letz and I, he has written a draft of a statement by the 9 Commissioners Court that I really want to wait until we -- I 10 want to read this into the record of the things that we want 11 our committee to take a look at and report back to us on. 12 But -- it's certainly open for discussion if you want to, 13 but I want to reserve this draft to actually read into the 14 record when we appoint -- actually appoint the committee. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that -- I mean, 17 the -- it may be slightly broad to say it's included in the 18 agenda item, but this -- you know, this is part of the 19 contract, to me. I mean, from the standpoint -- not the 20 contract, but part of the -- the contract process. And -- 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I agree with 22 you. Let's wait and put it up for an agenda item next time, 23 and then this with it. Who knows? We may even have a 24 couple other items you want to add to it. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask a question. 8-22-05 144 1 I'd like to get the committee rocking and rolling. Is there 2 any way that we could slip in here Friday morning and do 3 that? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I think I have an answer 5 coming on that. It may not be Friday; it may be next 6 Monday. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You have an answer to 8 that coming? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Next Monday's a bank 11 holiday. No -- 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Didn't know you owned one. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't. That's what 14 it says here. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do we have something 17 else going on on Monday, the 29th? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, we may have something 19 else going on, and we've got this other item that we've got 20 to be sure and consider before the 1st of September, if 21 you'll recall, that -- 22 MS. MITCHELL: Linda. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: -- we didn't act on from the 24 District Clerk on imposition of a fee. And -- and our 25 insurance consultant wants to do a workshop, if you'll 8-22-05 145 1 remember, and I've got a couple of dates from him. And -- 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Will we be in here 3 Monday, the 29th? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: There's a possibility of that. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Commissioner, how about 6 this? Why don't you announce the formation of the 7 committee? We'll just not vote. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Be happy to do that. 9 Proposed members of the EMS Study Committee would be James 10 A. Murphy; Joe Herring, Jr. -- both of those are former City 11 Councilmen -- Walter Schellhase, retired general; Gordon 12 Morgan, and Ray Lehmann, former County Commissioners, 13 Precinct 1. Do you want me to go -- no, that's all I'm 14 going to do. But that's the gentlemen that are going to 15 serve as the committee, and I can see that when we appoint 16 them, while they're -- Miguel, I'm glad you're in the 17 room -- while they're getting their feet on the ground and 18 getting to know each other a little bit, the first -- first 19 thing I want to do is do our presentation on our ESD to that 20 particular group, just to get them up to speed on what an 21 ESD is and how it works and how it functions, so that they 22 can just -- 'cause part -- part of the charge that we're 23 going to give them is to take a look at that, at an ESD -- 24 MR. DERRICK: Can I add something, Buster? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me finish my 8-22-05 146 1 sentence. 2 MR. DERRICK: I'm sorry, go ahead. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We want them to look 4 at an ESD county-wide that includes the City of Kerrville, 5 and we want them to look at an ESD county-wide excluding the 6 City of Kerrville. So, I just think it would be wise to 7 get -- get them -- they're not as up on the issues as we 8 are, and I think that would be a good thing to do, get them 9 going until they can kick the doors down over at the City 10 Hall -- I mean, get into the City Hall and start looking at 11 the numbers. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Commissioner, I would 13 read the statement, if I were you, and then we can go over 14 the rest of it later. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you want me to read 16 the whole thing? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, so long as -- 18 we can add things to it, right, for the final draft? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's correct. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Statement from the 22 Kerr County Commissioners court. Kerr County Commissioners 23 Court desires to maintain a very high standard of medical 24 care and service in Kerr County. The Commissioners Court 25 further believes, to the extent possible and practical, that 8-22-05 147 1 the EMS service provided in Kerr County should strive to be 2 financially self-sustaining, with these goals in mind. An 3 assessment of the following items by the above-appointed 4 committee will be of great service to the residents of Kerr 5 County. 6 One, assess function and viability of an 7 emergency service district, (A), county-wide ESD including 8 the city; (B), county-wide ESD excluding the city. Note the 9 two current ESD's in the county may be excluded under either 10 scenario. Number 2, review and make recommendations on the 11 billing system and rate structure under the current EMS 12 contract with the City of Kerrville. Number 3, review and 13 make recommendations on collection system under the current 14 EMS contract with the City of Kerrville. Number 4, review 15 and make recommendations on an equitable funding formula 16 between the City of Kerrville and Kerr County for funding 17 any financial shortfall under the current EMS contract. 18 Number 5, review and make recommendations on other EMS 19 issues that affect quality of service, cost-effectiveness, 20 or other matters that may improve EMS service in Kerr 21 County. And then I wrote, "not limited to these issues." 22 Committee to report back to the Commissioners Court not 23 later than March 1, 2006, with its findings. Kerr County 24 hopes the City of Kerrville will join in approval of this 25 committee to help develop a long-range plan for the 8-22-05 148 1 continuing high quality of EMS service throughout Kerr 2 County. That's it. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's not a final 4 draft, though; that's just today's version. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That is today's 6 version. If it were on the agenda, I would make a motion to 7 adopt this particular one. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If you were, I'd 9 offer two amendments, but I'll wait till next meeting. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Next week, actually. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Whenever we're going 12 to do it. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ron has a question. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Ron Derrick. 15 MR. DERRICK: I just have a comment. On -- 16 and please don't take this as disrespectful to any of the 17 members that you said at all. You named some very specific 18 matters on there that are very -- you have to be very up on 19 Medicare, Medicaid and things like that. I'm not sure that 20 the gentlemen specifically have that kind of knowledge. You 21 might keep that in mind if you're going to assign people to 22 this committee, that you might get a smattering of also some 23 people that -- whether that's somebody from the hospital 24 that knows how Medicare is going and Medicaid, 'cause this 25 has a lot to do with the billing that you're talking about 8-22-05 149 1 and other specific issues that you're speaking of. There 2 might be also some other people, and those -- these might be 3 invited guests, however you want to do that. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the way I want 5 to do that. 6 MR. DERRICK: I just want to throw that out 7 there to keep that in mind, that you've charged these 8 geezers, as you call it -- no disrespect at all, but there's 9 some very specific items that you have on there that I think 10 you're going to need to draw from some expertise. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's up to them, and 12 they're more connected in the community than we are. 13 MR. DERRICK: Right. That's it. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: So they -- 15 MR. DERRICK: That was just a comment I 16 wanted to make. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: They ought to be able to draw 19 on any resource that they may find -- 20 MR. DERRICK: Absolutely. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: -- appropriate for whatever 22 they're considering. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I mean, Ron, these are 24 geezers. Do you not understand "geezers"? 25 MR. DERRICK: Yes, sir. 8-22-05 150 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 2 MR. MOORE: Is that old geezers or just 3 geezers? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I'm not going 5 that far. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything further on 7 that agenda item? Do we want to continue forging forward? 8 Let's finish up. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We'll be back after lunch 10 anyway. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, when can we get 12 together and approve the committee? Monday? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I'm going to give you 14 something on that in a minute. We can do a workshop and -- 15 and -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And that may be an 17 agenda item on the same day as the workshop, that we can 18 actually officially approve it. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure, we can be in session. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, thank you. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Cut it up in two pieces. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One item left. We can 24 deal with that last item, but we still have to come back 25 after lunch. 8-22-05 151 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What are we coming 2 back for? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Budget amendments, bills, 4 reports, other stuff. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And a full stomach. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I gather that you want to 7 break for lunch? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can deal with the 9 Sheriff while he's here. Other than that -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: All right, Sheriff. Item 20, 11 consider and discuss authorizing the Sheriff to apply for a 12 grant for courthouse security system from a local 13 foundation. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's the only reason 15 I'm here. I'd like to apply for one under a local 16 foundation, one of the ones that normally we get an answer 17 back quicker and everything, so that we're still within our 18 budget process, depending on the options that y'all want to 19 take on what I presented with the budget process already as 20 far as physical courthouse security improvements. I'd like 21 to apply for the whole amount, being both those scenarios I 22 presented to you, but it would not cover any personnel 23 costs, just the equipment itself, cameras and panic system. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, Scenario 2 or 25 1, whichever you -- you pitch them, the larger of the two 8-22-05 152 1 requires personnel. Why would we want to install $100,000 2 worth of equipment if we were weren't going to staff it? 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's why I'm here. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I -- 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm not committing to 6 staffing it. It would -- you know, if the -- the whole 7 budget amount would be -- it is about $130,000, okay? The 8 amount for all the equipment, not personnel. I'd like 9 permission to apply for a grant to see if we're even going 10 to have an opportunity to get that, and then at that point 11 we'd discuss personnel. If the personnel issue wasn't 12 possible, then part of that grant funds would just have to 13 be returned, because we couldn't do the whole thing. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm -- I'm not in favor 15 of the $100,000 expenditure, period. I just -- I think that 16 the -- 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And the second option 18 was the $31,000 -- round it off to $32,000 option, and I'd 19 ask to at least be able to apply for a grant on that amount. 20 Y'all can determine the rest of it. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All I can say on that one 22 is that, I mean, I'm strongly leaning towards that, which 23 also requires additional staffing. And I think I have no 24 problem with talking to a local foundation, but I'm just 25 wondering if it's not a little bit premature. I don't think 8-22-05 153 1 you can get an answer back -- 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Rusty, when you first 5 started bringing this courthouse security issue up, I 6 thought you were a little bit goofy, which I'm not over that 7 quite yet. (Laughter.) 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You always thought I was 9 a little goofy. It's a mutual agreement; don't worry about 10 it. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But as I -- you know, 12 I serve as an officer in our -- our judges and commissioners 13 association, and I visit with a lot of commissioners courts 14 and travel around the state, and this is really becoming a 15 hot topic. Now, I don't know -- I don't know what's going 16 on in the law enforcement business or the bad people 17 business, but everybody is -- there seems, like, to be a 18 fear that's rising up that something bad's going to happen 19 in courthouses, and -- and I was real hesitant at first, but 20 the more I visit, I've kind of taken on that thing a little 21 bit, and I'm feeling a little bit funny about us not having 22 the security that we need -- 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well -- 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- for the citizens. 25 I'm not scared for us here, but for our citizens that use 8-22-05 154 1 the courthouse, and our employees that -- it's scary. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Courthouses are, by far, 3 a place where you have all facets of society come -- you 4 have the good, the bad, the disputed, everything else comes 5 into a courthouse. And -- and, yes, the potential with, 6 unfortunately, the way society's going a lot, is we're 7 seeing every week, every day, more and more violence inside 8 a courthouse, and I think we do have to do everything we can 9 do to protect public and protect our own employees. A lot 10 of that violence is -- is directed towards an employee of 11 either the court, being a judge or even a clerk that, you 12 know, didn't get their payment out on time on a child 13 support case, or there's just so many things, but it all 14 kind of comes together in your courthouse, and I think you 15 do have to look at that. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You could add in there 17 just lawyers in general. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah, lawyers in general 19 is always bad news, you know. But, anyhow, the -- the thing 20 is, and -- and we're ending up, with the way the criminal 21 justice system is growing, especially inside Kerr County -- 22 a very close example -- I've given y'all examples all 23 throughout the year about courthouse security concerns. 24 Last week alone, we had to transport 50 inmates over here, 25 and there were death contracts on six of them, so I had 8-22-05 155 1 about eight officers that had to spend the entire day, 2 including myself, in this courthouse. We don't know that 3 any of that's going to happen, but one of my duties as the 4 Sheriff is to safely guard anybody committed to my custody, 5 okay, and courthouse security. And I have to do those 6 duties and fulfill them, so I pull in people, even off-duty, 7 to make sure that we can fulfill those duties. At least one 8 of these systems, part of this security proposal I've given 9 you to get -- get estimates or at least see if we can get 10 funding on that, 'cause it is a tight budget year for the 11 county, and if I can go out for a grant and try and assist 12 in that, I think it does nothing but help all of us. But I 13 just think that I would be negligent if I didn't try and do 14 everything that I could do, because I think Jonathan brought 15 up a good point a while ago. To me, you know, with 16 everything going the way it is, I think cost-of-living 17 increases for all our employees is extremely important this 18 year, with gas prices the way they are. And I've already 19 cut two people out of my budget -- both budgets over that. 20 And I'm not Mr. Goody Two-Shoes, either; there's probably 21 more I could possibly do, but I'm trying some way to find 22 some grant money to improve the security of this courthouse 23 without upping my budget any more than I have to. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It seems to me if we 25 made a commitment to the Sheriff today on which program, 8-22-05 156 1 then we're making a commitment to the budget, are we not? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think you're right. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know that we 4 can legally do that. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay, I'm not saying -- 6 on the smaller of the two, the $32,000, okay? That is a 7 system -- that is a panic alarm system, that your current 8 courthouse security officer will be having a separate radio 9 on him with -- with buttons that he can come down here and 10 see what the original alarm went off about, and then if he 11 wants to push a button, he can push it, and everybody comes. 12 That does not necessarily require additional personnel, 13 okay? That can be done by him, and probably more 14 efficiently than the phone calls he gets and running down. 15 Now, for future growth, for the system to work in the best 16 way that -- that it possibly could, we'd be able to have 17 another person up there so that when that alarm -- panic 18 alarm goes off, they can actually look at a camera and see 19 where it is before we bring that person down to see if we 20 can get assistance down sooner. But I think that the panic 21 system itself can be done by our current personnel. 22 Although I think, just in general, we have one guy guarding 23 every courtroom in this courthouse in every part of this 24 courthouse. That's a separate issue. But I -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, you don't think 8-22-05 157 1 that that program would impact the overall county budget in 2 any way? 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The program would not, 4 that one program. Now, if we did the camera system, yes, 5 you'd need somebody to monitor the camera. The panic alarm 6 system by itself would not necessarily impact the overall 7 budget. I've had $1,000 -- or, actually, we spent $700 in 8 the last three years on improving actual physical security 9 at the courthouse, and it's time that we improved it a lot 10 better, and I'm asking for permission -- 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sheriff, I thought 12 there were some presentations to the Court in the budget 13 hearing when you made this presentation that we would 14 seriously consider additional personnel in the courthouse 15 with this panic system, because you made a strong case that 16 you tie up people as bailiffs in the courts and so forth and 17 so on, and I thought you made a pretty compelling case for 18 another person in the courthouse. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That issue on tying up 20 personnel, we're still doing it. The panic system allows, 21 on days that court is not in session or -- or that I don't 22 already have other people over here having to watch 23 different courtrooms -- like, juvenile court, A.G. court, 24 you know, the two district courts and that, I always have to 25 have more personnel. You could give me 20 people for the 8-22-05 158 1 courthouse on some of those court days, and we wouldn't have 2 enough personnel over here; I have to call people. For a 3 general consensus, I think the courthouse needs a minimum -- 4 and I stated this during the budget process -- of two 5 full-time people, preferably three, okay, in the courthouse. 6 But two for sure, just as a personnel issue. As security 7 improvements in the courthouse, we need at least the panic 8 system, and I would prefer the camera system also, but at a 9 minimum, the panic system. And those are two separate 10 issues. Personnel's one, panic system's another. But if 11 you do the camera, you've got to add an additional personnel 12 for the camera. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I look at it as a -- you 14 know, we need to do something with the courthouse security 15 this year, and I make a motion to authorize the Sheriff to 16 go out for this grant for the -- the panic system -- 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- at this time, and 20 hopefully we can do more this year. If not, we may have to, 21 you know, next year address these issues again. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I second that motion. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and second. 24 Any discussion or questions on the motion? All in favor of 25 the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 8-22-05 159 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Do we want to come back after 5 lunch? Is that the -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: -- Court's pleasure? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. We'll be in recess 10 until 2 o'clock. 11 (Recess taken from 12:35 p.m. to 2 p.m.) 12 - - - - - - - - - - 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to 14 order, if we might, and resume our regularly scheduled 15 Commissioners Court meeting of this date. We went into 16 recess for lunch until 2:00; it's a bit after that now. I 17 received a note from the I.T. Manager that he is ready to 18 make a recommendation on the first item on the agenda, on 19 the long distance bids that were received and opened and 20 referred to him. The agenda item includes "consider, 21 discuss, and approval of a long distance telephone service 22 provider," which indicates to me that we can go forward if 23 he's ready to go forward. He tells me he is. 24 MR. TROLINGER: I am ready. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. So, we'll come 8-22-05 160 1 back to Item Number 1 on the agenda, and I will recall that. 2 Receive and open sealed bids for long distance service, 3 which has occurred. Consider, discuss, and approval of a 4 long distance telephone service provider. Mr. Trolinger, 5 have you had an opportunity to review those bids? 6 MR. TROLINGER: I have, in detail. The 7 proposal -- the one-page proposal from Kerrville Telephone 8 Long Distance proposes at the per cent -- five cents per 9 cent -- per minute for long distance direct-dial calls. The 10 proposal from Frontera Telecommunications, Inc., proposes at 11 .045 cents per minute. Now, that's an insignificant number 12 to me, just that half a cent difference, but there is a 13 significant savings with Frontera in the use of voice-over 14 IP that is using our existing cable modems at the Sheriff's 15 Office and here at the courthouse to make these calls. And 16 in doing so, we can reduce up to six of our existing 17 outgoing lines, and I have the excerpt here from Option A 18 from Frontera for you, four copies. And we have tested 19 this; it's been in test for about two months, and it reduces 20 our cost by six lines -- up to six lines. I've estimated 21 between four and six lines. The annual savings is between 22 $1,440 per year and $2,131 per year. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Say it again? 24 MR. TROLINGER: By changing to the service 25 provided by Frontera, we can save up to 2,131 per year, 8-22-05 161 1 $2,131 per year, by eliminating outgoing lines. And what 2 sweetens the deal is -- is that, although we had spoken of 3 using tie lines to connect the courthouse and the Sheriff's 4 Office, I did not think it was possible to do it with our 5 existing equipment without having a capital outlay, and what 6 I'm seeing here in this proposal is that we can have those 7 tie lines where we can dial direct between the Sheriff's 8 Office and the courthouse without additional equipment, with 9 just a reprogramming of the telephone system. So, I 10 recommend Frontera. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can you explain all that 12 you just said in English now? 13 MR. TROLINGER: Basically, we're going to use 14 the cable modems instead of the fixed copper land lines that 15 are provided by the telephone company. And by reducing 16 those six lines, that's where the -- the large amount of 17 savings is. That's where the large difference is between 18 the two bids. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me interject, if I might. 20 I notice in the last paragraph, "About Us," it refers to the 21 bidder having -- currently working in conjunction with a 22 sister company, TRC Telecom, to provide switched access. I 23 need to disclose that my son is General Manager of TRC 24 Telecom. I don't think he has -- to my knowledge, he has 25 absolutely no affiliation or employment status with 8-22-05 162 1 Frontera, the bidder in this case, but just the fact that it 2 is mentioned here, and apparently there's some sort of a 3 business arrangement between Frontera and TRC. I don't know 4 whether it's a -- a customer customer -- a vendor/customer 5 relationship or what it is, but in any respect, TRC Telecom 6 does employ my son, Patrick, Jr., so I need to get that out 7 on the table. He's got no affiliation, to my knowledge, 8 with Frontera, but there's a mention, so I'm throwing it 9 out. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, first of all, I 11 appreciate you doing that. I think it's very -- very wise 12 business. And I'd like to make a motion that, upon the 13 recommendation of the I.T. Manager, John Trolinger, that we 14 contract with Frontera Telecommunications, Inc., and 15 authorize the County Judge to sign the same contract. I 16 don't know -- are you going to feel comfortable about 17 signing the contract? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: I got no problem with that if 19 the Court directs that to occur. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a question. 21 If you know, to whom else does Frontera provide service 22 locally? Do you know? 23 MR. TROLINGER: No, I do not have their 24 customer list. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sheriff, do you have a 8-22-05 163 1 question? 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes, because it's using 3 the internet access. If -- and Bill Williams knows some 4 about this. The -- the visual learning, to be able to -- 5 for AACOG to be able to put on classes here, that's -- I've 6 even got a rough draft of the agreement at the office, and I 7 wanted the County Attorney to look at that, where it doesn't 8 cost us, but we stated in that we were providing a T-1 or 9 equivalent type connection between us and AACOG, which is 10 now going to be on a modem. If we now switch over all the 11 phone system to that too, are we going to have to upgrade, 12 then, that modem because of the speed that we've stated in 13 that possible agreement to be able to continue with that 14 agreement with AACOG? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, you need that 16 broadband -- you need that broadband service. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. So if -- if 18 we've got to upgrade that now, what is that upgrade going to 19 cost us a month compared to what we're saving on the long 20 distance service? 21 MR. TROLINGER: Okay. For the initial 22 project, what we're looking at right here, it will not 23 impact that line at the Sheriff's Office more than a 24 fraction. I've actually get a meter -- a bandwidth meter, 25 and we installed the -- one of the ATA's to test the 8-22-05 164 1 service, and that's one of the things I looked at to make 2 sure it wasn't a bandwidth hog. And it's relatively small 3 to the -- the other services, the general ebb and flow of 4 the -- of the usage of the -- 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. My concern was if 6 they have to widen this broadband, that's about another 7 300-something dollars a month that we have to pay, and that 8 then you're talking over $3,000, which the $2,000 or $1,500 9 you're going to save there I think would be negated. 10 MR. TROLINGER: Now, depending on the tie 11 lines going on with this project, there may be an impact, 12 and at that point, then we'll have to make another decision. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sheriff, do you 14 currently have a T-1 line? 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We had -- it's not a 16 T-1. What we had originally for the AFIS fingerprint 17 machine -- I forget what John called it. 18 MR. TROLINGER: ISDN. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's an ISDN line, not 20 quite as fast as a T-1 line. AACOG wanted a T-1 or 21 equivalent type service, and that's what we changed in 22 there, because we went to that broadband, which gave them 23 actually even a little faster speed than the T-1, okay, 24 would. But now, if you add the long distance service on 25 there too, I'm afraid it's going to put our usage up to 8-22-05 165 1 where, to continue with that deal with AACOG, I'd have to 2 upgrade our broadband service, which would cost me out of 3 our budget an extra $350 a month, which would drastically 4 kind of make this proposal not as -- 5 MR. TROLINGER: Exactly. And I did look at 6 that, and no, I'm not going to change the -- this won't 7 impact the quality of the line that the AACOG distance 8 learning requires. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What about the 10 capacity of the line? 11 MR. TROLINGER: The capacity of the line that 12 we have now? We -- 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, you say it 14 wouldn't impact the quality. I'm asking what about the 15 capacity? 16 MR. TROLINGER: When someone picks up -- and 17 it looks like we'll just have one single line that's 18 possible to use for outgoing for long distance at the 19 Sheriff's Office to begin with. There will still be a 20 requirement to use K.T.L.D., I believe, initially. But the 21 one line that this setup -- you know, the usage -- the 22 capacity reduction is on the order of a 16th -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 24 MR. TROLINGER: -- of the existing service. 25 And with the natural ebb and flow of traffic, it really just 8-22-05 166 1 falls in there. It's very -- it was very hard for me to 2 measure by picking up the phone and looking at my bandwidth 3 meter to determine what the change was, even after hours 4 when it was very low activity. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Are you saying that 6 there will be only one long distance line, to where only one 7 person can be on a long distance call at a time? 8 MR. TROLINGER: From the service initially at 9 the Sheriff's Office. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I can't -- you know, we 11 may have 8 or 10 long distance phone calls going on all at 12 one time. 13 MR. TROLINGER: Right, but the existing 14 service -- we're not -- we're not eliminating the K.T.L.D. 15 initially. What we're doing is -- what I'm proposing is 16 that -- as part of this long distance bid is that we 17 contract with Frontera to switch the courthouse in its 18 entirety, but do the Sheriff's Office in a stepped approach, 19 since it's a complex telephone system. The six lines would 20 be eliminated here, not at the Sheriff's Office. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: To give our office the 22 equivalent of what we have now and still be able to do the 23 distance learning stuff, what kind of cost effect would that 24 have, where I don't lose any long distance service over this 25 other possibility? If we switched over to your long 8-22-05 167 1 distance service and did it equal, what we have now, what 2 kind of prices are they pulling for that type of service? 3 MR. TROLINGER: The price from Frontera 4 doesn't change regardless. It's the -- this percent rate is 5 what they're charging us for their service. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: So then we'd still have 7 to upgrade to broadband? 8 MR. TROLINGER: Eventually, if we did tie 9 lines, we would have to do some more on the telephone switch 10 and make some changes -- significant changes to your 11 telephone switch, and I'm not prepared to make those kind of 12 changes. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If we need to make long 14 distance calls from each phone that we have -- 15 MR. TROLINGER: Uh-huh. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- okay, and there may 17 be six or eight of them going at one time, what kind of 18 impact -- and we weren't on K.T. -- we didn't keep the 19 contract with Kerrville phone company, you went totally with 20 Frontera, what's going to happen? Do you have to do that 21 $350-a-month upgrade at a minimum, or is it even going to be 22 more than that? 23 MR. TROLINGER: No, it would be exactly that. 24 We'd have to change to the next higher speed on the cable 25 modem or add a second cable modem. 8-22-05 168 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Second cable modem would 2 cost me what for out there? 3 MR. TROLINGER: $4,400 per year. But that -- 4 that's where we get into the tie lines and the integration, 5 and I'm looking at that. Not this year, but -- 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: My phone service budget 7 request may have to drastically change, depending on what 8 y'all do. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sheriff, with regard 10 to the distance learning, is that -- is that projected to be 11 something that's just within certain time slots, or all the 12 time? 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It depends on what 14 courses they're running at the Alamo Area Law Enforcement 15 Academy. Like I said, I have a rough draft. Any of those 16 courses that they're running, anybody from this entire area, 17 especially my department, instead of driving down there, can 18 go into that training room, sit down, log on; they furnish 19 all the equipment and everything, and actually take that 20 course without having to go to San Antonio for the week. 21 And that's open to all the surrounding agencies, too. We 22 become the first one in the state, and it's all been totally 23 approved and selected; it's just getting a rough draft of 24 the agreement. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: John, what -- I just know 8-22-05 169 1 -- granted, I live out in the middle of nowhere, and I end 2 up with more utilities disruption than probably happens in 3 the city of Kerrville, but I know that our power goes off; 4 we have power surges and all that on a very regular basis. 5 Every time it does that, my computer gets knocked off, but I 6 can still use my phone, as long as I don't use one of the 7 ones that need electricity to run. But if we're switching 8 -- it seems that going -- relying on computers is higher 9 risk than relying on the phone lines. 10 MR. TROLINGER: It is. And I've studied that 11 infrastructure that Time-Warner provides us, and I've also 12 secured written agreement annotations on our accounts that 13 our service is life safety. And one of the reasons I got 14 that was because the Sheriff's Office relies on the 15 connection between here and the courthouse, so we do have 16 top priority service and billing with Time-Warner. But, 17 yes, if the connection to the internet fails, we will not 18 have these six outgoing lines at the courthouse. Instead, 19 we will have remaining nine outgoing lines that are the 20 dial-9 service that everyone's accustomed to using now, and 21 those will be fully functional. So, it doesn't -- it 22 doesn't take us off-line if -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're not getting rid of 24 phone lines; we're just reducing the number of phone lines? 25 MR. TROLINGER: We're transitioning -- I see 8-22-05 170 1 it as a first step to transitioning to voice-over IP, but 2 this is the first step. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We're going to have two 4 long distance companies? 5 MR. TROLINGER: We'll have one for the 6 courthouse and one for the Sheriff's Office. I'm not 7 proposing a change in the -- in this service. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Down at the courthouse, 9 we're back -- even at the courthouse, you're back to the 10 dial-9, which is the Kerrville, so you're still keeping two 11 long distance phone companies. 12 MR. TROLINGER: No, the Sheriff's Office is 13 independent. If -- if we had long distance from Frontera at 14 the Sheriff's Office and the courthouse went down, then your 15 service would not be affected. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But what would the 17 courthouse do? 18 MR. TROLINGER: The courthouse would have to 19 dial 9 to use -- 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Would it go back into 21 Kerrville phone company's contract from the courthouse? 22 MR. TROLINGER: And for whatever -- whatever 23 rate that they would charge at that point, yes. It's a 24 little bit complex. I've tried to break it down into -- 25 into two simple pieces. We're going to reduce six lines, 8-22-05 171 1 six of the outgoing -- six of the 15 outgoing lines here at 2 the courthouse. With this new service, we're going to 3 use -- the cable modem which is here at the courthouse has 4 plenty of capacity to make long distance calls. We're going 5 to establish tie lines initially as a test to the Sheriff's 6 Office so that we can dial three digits to call over to the 7 Sheriff's Office, and likewise from the Sheriff's Office to 8 the courthouse, and that will save approximately $3,000 a 9 year as a result here at the courthouse. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Commissioner, did you 11 make a motion a long time ago? 12 MS. PIEPER: Yes, he did. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: God, I don't have any 14 idea; it's been a day and a half. Yes, I did. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll second it. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That was on the recommendation 17 of Mr. Trolinger. I have a motion and a second. Any 18 question or discussion? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Only discussion is, I'm 20 looking at really -- we need to track this, make sure this 21 is -- I'm a little uncomfortable with -- you know, I would 22 like to hear from the departments, the Sheriff, if we're 23 having any trouble with this type of change. You know, 24 technology's going this way, so... 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 8-22-05 172 1 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 2 your right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. 7 MR. TROLINGER: Thank you. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: When does that go into 9 effect? 10 MR. TROLINGER: I'll have to look at the 11 billing cycle for -- from K.T.L.D. to give you the answer. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Pretty soon. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. If my record of keeping 14 score here is correct, we've got a couple items passed, but 15 we're now down to the approval agenda, unless anybody has 16 something to go in executive session. Do we have anything? 17 Hearing none -- well, that's okay. We're down to the 18 approval agenda. Let's pay the bills. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move we pay the 20 bills. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to 23 pay the bills. Any question or comment? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Question. Page 1 -- 25 where'd he go? Where'd our I.T. guy go? 8-22-05 173 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: He just stepped out. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Throw a rope at him. 3 Pull your pistol. On Page 1, under Information Technology, 4 we have a bill from Gazelle Computers for the service 5 agreement, and then Nondepartmental, we also have a bill 6 from Gazelle Computers. Why are they broken out into two 7 different departments? 8 (Discussion off the record.) 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Guess I need to ask 10 Tommy. 11 MR. TOMLINSON: It's just a -- 12 MR. TROLINGER: You want the background? 13 Paula Rector had -- because this is part of the Voter 14 Registration and is a separate budget, she had to -- had 15 specifically asked to break out the cabling cost of running 16 cable from the -- and having the I.T. Department charge that 17 to the -- to that line item, and break out the equipment 18 cost separately. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So the cable is 20 something that could come under Nondepartmental, not under 21 your department? 22 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, that's essentially the 23 way it was budgeted. We -- 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 25 MR. TOMLINSON: We budget for these kind of 8-22-05 174 1 things. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what I'm 3 asking. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't have a 5 question; I just have an observation. Under Information 6 Technology, Kerrville Telephone Long Distance sends us a 7 bill for 12 cents. It costs 37 cents to send a bill, and 37 8 cents for us to send a damn check back for 12 cents. Whoo, 9 efficiency at its best. 10 MR. TOMLINSON: That may not be exactly the 11 case. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How -- 13 MR. TOMLINSON: We probably got a stack of 14 bills about that tall, and we -- my office has one person 15 that does nothing for two days but separate them. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm not being 17 critical; I just think it's funny. 18 MR. TOMLINSON: So we're not writing a check 19 for 12 cents, is my point. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think it's 21 hilarious. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Page 2, County Court 23 at Law. And I guess this is just an observation, as well. 24 The first item there, steno machine repair. And then the 25 second item is steno machine repair. About three-quarters 8-22-05 175 1 of the way down, you have one for steno machine repair. And 2 then the third from the bottom, you have one for steno 3 machine repair, which totals up to $373.63. How much do 4 those things cost? Is that a steno machine? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: They cost way, way more than 6 that, Commissioner, I can assure you. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, that's goofy. 8 But why are they broken out in four different places? Why 9 don't we just lump them in one? I guess they're 10 reimbursements. 11 MR. TOMLINSON: There must be -- apparently, 12 she paid the bills herself. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, that's what it 14 looks like. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: We just reimbursed her, so 16 apparently there's more than -- than -- 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that county 18 equipment? Is that county equipment? 19 MR. TOMLINSON: No, I think it's probably 20 hers. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Go ahead and ask the 22 next question. Go ahead, Bill. Go get 'em. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why are we paying for 24 steno -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Go for it, man. 8-22-05 176 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He just did. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: See if you can get an 3 answer. I've been trying for years. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm waiting. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner, I would remind 6 you that you are within arm's reach of Ms. Banik. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Ms. Banik's not in 8 question here. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: That's her equipment that she 10 utilizes, and -- 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: -- we keep that equipment up, 13 because it's to our benefit to have that equipment in top 14 operating condition, and the supplies she needs. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I guess that answers 16 the question. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The question I have is 18 the -- of fixing their own machine. I mean, I can see we -- 19 you know, I've gotten over the point that we pay these extra 20 steno -- stenographers or court reporters, I guess, for 21 their work, and I understand that. But if they own the 22 machine, how do we figure -- how can we fix their machine, I 23 guess is really the question. I didn't know that we could 24 spend county funds on private property. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's like Road and 8-22-05 177 1 Bridge working on a private road, kind of. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It seems to me it's the 3 same, but I don't understand how -- I mean -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, good luck. 5 MS. PIEPER: And that was only in district 6 court, I believe, that that happens. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What was? 8 MS. PIEPER: Only the district court. 9 Because I don't ever think that Kelly in County Court at Law 10 has charged the County for doing the extra transcription, 11 has she? 12 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes, she has. 13 MS. PIEPER: I guess I'm wrong, sir. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're all her machines? 15 MR. TOMLINSON: She has one machine. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But -- Rex, is there a 17 problem there? I mean -- 18 MR. EMERSON: I think you hit the nail on the 19 head. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean I -- you know, if 21 we had a -- it just seems odd to me. I can see paying for 22 the services when -- you know, and things like that, but 23 fixing the machine seems -- it goes along the same thing 24 with -- I have a problem with my home computer right now, 25 and I use it for work, and John says I can -- "Bring it in; 8-22-05 178 1 I can fix it." I says, "No, I don't think so. It's not the 2 County's computer." 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think the County 4 ought to buy the equipment. How do you like that? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My computer? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, steno machines. 7 When they're being used exclusively for county business, we 8 ought to own the equipment. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't have a problem 10 with that. I'd rather buy that instead of fix their 11 equipment. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Be careful. 13 MR. EMERSON: Let me complicate this for you, 14 please. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Please do. 16 MR. EMERSON: Say the County pays for a 17 stenographer -- a machine, and Kelly takes her testimony in 18 a hearing for the county, and then, based on your premise of 19 using it for the County's benefit, how does she then turn 20 around and bill for her services to copy transcripts on a 21 County-owned property? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, that's a really 23 good question, Mr. County Attorney. What's the answer? 24 MR. EMERSON: I haven't yet figured out how 25 the stenographers -- 8-22-05 179 1 MR. TOMLINSON: How the lobby works. 2 MR. EMERSON: -- lobby that well, yeah. No 3 offense, Kathy. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't know. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Any more observations? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely none from 7 me. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I want to get out of 9 this. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If an officer is 11 furnishing his own weapon and it breaks -- which is normal, 12 okay? -- then they spend $200 or $300 fixing that weapon, 13 but they're carrying that weapon on duty. Is there any 14 difference? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, I don't think so. I 16 mean, I -- 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There's no difference 18 in us buying the ambulance for the City. (Laughter.) 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's not that bad. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: I thought we were going to 21 stop observations. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But you couldn't 24 resist. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or 8-22-05 180 1 comments? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 2 your right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carries. Budget 7 amendments. Number 1? 8 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 1 is 198th District 9 Court, transferring $425 from Special Trials, $200 to 10 Special Court Reporter line item and $245 to Books, 11 Publications, and Dues. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What do you mean, 13 "Special Court Reporter"? That's a joke. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Boy, I sure hope we 15 don't have a special trial before the end of the budget 16 year. That's going down fast. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 20 approval of Budget Amendment Request Number 1. Any 21 questions or comments? All in favor of the motion, signify 22 by raising your right hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 8-22-05 181 1 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Budget 2 Amendment Request Number 2. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. Number 2 is for the 4 216th court. We have Court-appointed attorneys' bills 5 totaling 6,345.50, so we're transferring 6,345.50 from 6 Special Trials to Court-Appointed Attorneys. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Any 10 question or comment? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just -- this could 12 happen again next month. 13 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah, it most assuredly will. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 16 comment, or observations? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: None. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: All in favor of the motion, 19 signify by raising your right hand. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Budget 24 Amendment Request Number 3. 25 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. Number 3 is for the 8-22-05 182 1 County Attorney. His request is to transfer 2,500 from 2 Attorney Fees, 1,000 going into Conferences and 1,500 to 3 Books, Publications, and Dues. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 7 approval. Any question or comment? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is this a conference 9 for you personally, or staff? 10 MR. EMERSON: Both. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: This is the September Texas -- 13 MR. EMERSON: Correct. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: -- District and County? 15 MR. EMERSON: Yes, sir. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: South Padre? 18 MR. EMERSON: It's in Corpus. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There was one in Hawaii 20 one year, Buster, remember? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I remember Judge 22 Ables going to -- somewhere up in Utah or someplace to a 23 meeting. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Coeur d' Alene. 25 Right next to a beautiful golf course. 8-22-05 183 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Sutton's staff has gone 2 to Hawaii the last two years in a row. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what I heard. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 5 comments? Or observations? All in favor of the motion, 6 signify by raising your right hand. 7 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 9 (No response.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Budget 11 Amendment Request Number 4. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 4 is -- is actually an 13 increase in the budget -- 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: -- for 7,747.35. I have -- I 16 need a hand check to go with that to Comtex Communications. 17 It's for Phase II of the Homeland Security expense that came 18 to us in the form of a grant from the TEEX Homeland Security 19 proceeds. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: For that amount, 7,747.35? 21 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Who made the motion? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I did. Just kidding 8-22-05 184 1 around, but that's okay. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Before we ever called 3 the item. Motion made and seconded. Any question or 4 comment or observation? All in favor of the motion, signify 5 by raising your right hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Budget 10 Amendment Request Number 5. 11 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 5 is for Indigent 12 Health. This also increased the budget that we have to 13 declare an emergency on for -- we have Indigent Health Care 14 bills totaling 43,913.21, and expenditures to our 15 third-party administrator for 1,976.09. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do we ever get to the 17 point to where the State reimburses? Tell me about that one 18 more time. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: It's 8 percent of the general 20 tax levy, which is the ad valorem tax and sales tax, so it's 21 8 percent of approximately 8 and a half million, 9 million. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're close. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is what we budget for 24 the 665,000? 25 MR. TOMLINSON: We budgeted 664,914. 8-22-05 185 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're getting close. 2 MR. TOMLINSON: We're close. But next -- 3 next Wednesday is the last day of the State's year. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. I move we declare 5 an emergency and approve Budget Amendment Number 5. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to 8 declare an emergency and approve Budget Amendment Request 9 Number 5. My question or comment? All in favor of the 10 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Budget 15 Amendment Request Number 6. 16 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. Number 6 is for Road 17 and Bridge, and it is also an increase in budget, to budget 18 for expenditures associated with O.R.C.A. moneys that were 19 received back from the flood for $445.27. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 23 approval. Any question or comment? All in favor of the 24 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8-22-05 186 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Do we 4 have any late bills? 5 MR. TOMLINSON: I have one more amendment. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, one more amendment? 7 Budget Amendment Request Number 7. 8 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 7 is for the District 9 Clerk. She's requesting a transfer of $400.66 from 10 Part-Time Salaries to Microfilm Expense. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Move for approval. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 14 approval. Any question or comment? Do we need a hand check 15 for that? 16 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 17 MS. PIEPER: Mine's got a hand check attached 18 to it for The Software Group. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: No, that's different. 20 MS. PIEPER: Okay. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All in favor of the motion, 22 signify by raising your right hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 8-22-05 187 1 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Any 2 further budget amendments? 3 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Do we have any late bills? 5 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes, I do. One is to The 6 Software Group for $12,246, and it's for payment of the -- 7 of J.P. 4's software license and the on-site training for -- 8 for his upgrade on his system. This is -- this is actually 9 paid for by a grant from -- 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: D.P.S. 11 MR. TOMLINSON: -- D.P.S. We got a $15,000 12 grant from D.P.S. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: And the amount of this one is 14 $20,246? 15 MR. TOMLINSON: No, it's $12,246 even. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is this the -- the 17 program that all the other J.P.'s went with, and he didn't 18 want to and all that? 19 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And how much did it 21 cost back then? 22 MR. TOMLINSON: Approximately the same 23 amount. I think the basic licenses were around $13,000. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Any communications 8-22-05 188 1 expenses associated with this, or -- 2 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There are? 4 MR. TOMLINSON: There are a year of operating 5 expenses that it paid for through this grant. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Was there a motion? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Hasn't been yet. 9 I'll move it. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 12 approval of a late bill and hand check to The Software Group 13 for $12,246. Any question or comment? All in favor of the 14 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Any 19 more late bills? 20 MR. TOMLINSON: I have another one. This one 21 is payable to the Mason County District/County Clerk's 22 Office for $25; it's for the recording fee for a Deed of 23 Trust. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What was the amount 8-22-05 189 1 again, Tommy? 2 MR. EMERSON: Do you want an explanation? 3 MR. TOMLINSON: $25. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I remember what it is. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 7 approval of late bill and hand check to Mason County 8 District Clerk for $25. Any question or comment? All in 9 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Any 14 more late bills? 15 MR. TOMLINSON: The last one is to Ford Motor 16 Credit for 7,422.48, and it's for the lease payment on an 17 '05 Ford F-250 pickup. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: What's the amount again? 19 MR. TOMLINSON: 7,422.48. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sheriff's Department? 21 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes -- actually, for the 22 jail. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 8-22-05 190 1 approval of late bill and hand check to Ford Motor Credit 2 for $7,422.48. Any question or comment? All in favor of 3 the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. I do 8 not see any reports. 9 MS. PIEPER: There's some. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: I do see some reports. Vision 11 was temporarily incapacitated. I have reports from Justice 12 of the Peace, Precinct 1, Justice of the Peace, Precinct 2, 13 Justice of the Peace, Precinct 4, District Clerk, and the 14 County Attorney. Do I hear a motion that these reports be 15 approved as submitted? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved -- second. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 19 approval of the reports designated as submitted. Any 20 question or comment? All in favor of the motion, signify by 21 raising your right hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Okay. 8-22-05 191 1 Any reports from any of the Commissioners on their 2 designated liaison committee assignments? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I want to let y'all 4 know that the City wants to talk about EMS negotiation. No, 5 that was a joke. I got a -- I got a message from Rex 6 dealing with 9-1-1 -- what was the issue? 7 MR. EMERSON: Bill Amerine said that they 8 need an interlocal agreement to continue to provide 9 addressing to the County. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 11 MR. EMERSON: And he provided me with a copy 12 from some other county that had a lot of information on it 13 that, you know, to my knowledge, was not relevant to Kerr 14 County, so I basically inputted it, deleted it out, tweaked 15 it a little bit, and sent it back, and now he's got 16 negotiation issues, and so I referred him to the honorable 17 commissioner to work out those issues, and we will tweak it 18 some more. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. So, the -- an 20 interlocal agreement with 9-1-1 so they can continue 21 addressing for us is coming forth. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything else? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The Sheriff touched 24 on it. I had a phone call from AACOG indicating that if 25 they hadn't already sent you this agreement, which needs to 8-22-05 192 1 be approved by the Court for -- for distance learning -- 2 have you got it already? 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They came down a week 4 ago last Thursday -- or last Thursday, and handed me a rough 5 draft. I made some initial changes to it. Al Zotson -- 6 Notzon, or however you pronounce it, had not seen it at all 7 yet, and I told them -- they agreed just verbally to the 8 changes we made. I told them I'd get that rough draft to 9 our County Attorney, and they were going to get theirs to 10 the Executive Director up there, and then we'd see. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I guess that's what 12 the call was all about that I got. The changes or the rough 13 draft of the -- suggested draft of the agreement -- 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- then goes before 16 the AACOG Board tomorrow for approval, after which it will 17 be forwarded to us for -- for review and action by 18 Commissioners Court. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's correct. But the 20 only main change that I had made in it, in the written part 21 they had still stated a T-1 line, and since we had gone to 22 the Roadrunner, we don't have that, so we changed that to a 23 "T-1 or equivalent speed line," is why that went through 24 that way. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 8-22-05 193 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Then the only other 2 thing I'd like to comment on is we have -- Buster was out 3 there; we had been getting some architects to come take a 4 tour of the facility. I know we have until -- all we put in 5 the letter was September 1st, so I'm going to put in 5 p.m. 6 September 1st for any possible architects to return their 7 qualifications, and at which time I'll present all those to 8 the Commissioners Court, you know, and decide what you want 9 to do. But as of right now, we have received one. We have 10 the rest of this month. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Rusty, have you 12 decided -- or have we decided how we go about deciding 13 whether they're qualified or not? 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: My understanding -- and 15 I'm not an expert on this, and Rex can probably do more. My 16 understanding is, it's on a kind of a case-by-case scenario 17 and what this Court wants to do, what the project 18 encompasses, and if the Court feels that this is the most 19 qualified by -- by what they presented, and then you have to 20 rank them one, two, three, four, without ever looking at 21 costs. And then, after the costs go -- or after the 22 ranking's done, then you pick one. Then you can start 23 negotiating with that one, and if you don't like that one, 24 you throw that one out and you go to ranking number two, and 25 that is the way that works, before you ever consider hiring 8-22-05 194 1 an architect for -- for any additions or anything out there. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you talking about 3 design and build? 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm talking about as far 5 as doing anything, when you first get started on picking an 6 architect, is what I was -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's long before you 8 get to design and build. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah, this is the first 10 step. But that's the way it works, as far as deciding what 11 architect you're going to end up going with to do anything, 12 if you choose to. And one thing I would suggest, because 13 looking at that and looking at the jail space, I think we're 14 going to have to, you know, give it very serious 15 consideration on some of that. I don't know, gentlemen, 16 if -- it's just in my little brain. If the Odyssey computer 17 software package -- if we had to go out to a bond election 18 for an addition to the jail, if the computer upgrades and -- 19 because of the high cost of that, can be part of that bond 20 issue or not. I don't know how that would work. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Financing, I think, would 22 be paying for something which in five years is going to be 23 obsolete, and we're paying for it in 20 years. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Very well may be. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. I don't think 8-22-05 195 1 I want to mix those two. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I just didn't know if -- 3 that was a thought. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Anything further? 5 You got anything for us? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: A couple. This is just a 7 nod or a "Don't care," whatever. Hermann Sons Bridge is 8 nearing completion. At some point, there will be some sort 9 of an opening for that bridge. I pass it on as to what, if 10 any, involvement members of the Court want to have with that 11 opening. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Are you planning on being 13 there? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm planning on being 15 there. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, we wouldn't 17 want you to miss all those kudos you're going to get there 18 when you open that bridge. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They might throw things. 20 People are pretty strange over there. But, anyway, it's 21 not -- I think we have a little bit of time, but it's 22 something to maybe plan. Another thing, and I don't know if 23 everyone on the Court received it, but Austin Cullins died 24 over the weekend -- passed away, just so everyone is aware 25 of that. He has been in poor health for some time. Just 8-22-05 196 1 pass that on. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you know when -- 3 have they already had the funeral? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I believe the funeral was 5 today at 10 o'clock. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think it was, too. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Might send a note or 8 something. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. The County Attorney has 12 something for us. 13 MR. EMERSON: Just one quick comment, 14 gentlemen. When y'all eventually get around to appointing 15 your committee for your EMS, given the time frame for the 16 emergency services district and all the things that have to 17 occur before that can happen, I would highly recommend that 18 you have them work on two parallel tracks, so that if the 19 time rolls around and you think that's what you're going to 20 have to do, all the groundwork's laid. Because if they -- 21 if they investigate for six months and then make a decision, 22 it's going to be too late at that point. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with you. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, that's an item that we 25 need to get the Court to act on pretty quickly. And in that 8-22-05 197 1 respect, we have a -- we had mentioned having a workshop 2 with our health benefits consultant, and he has given me two 3 dates next week; the afternoon of Monday, the 29th, or 4 either morning or afternoon on Wednesday, the 31st. Based 5 upon some comments that I've heard in the last short period 6 of time, we're probably going to need another budget 7 workshop after this one coming up Monday -- Wednesday. Our 8 health benefits consultant says he needs approximately one 9 and a half, maybe a bit longer -- one and a half hours or a 10 tad longer. My thinking was, on these items that we needed 11 to take formal action on, we've got the time to post. We 12 could post a short agenda for maybe 30 minutes ahead of that 13 time, and then have the workshop afterwards. Or in reverse, 14 depending on what the Court's pleasure is. But either way, 15 you know if we're going to have the workshop, we can tandem 16 it up with these items that are on a short fuse for us. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think I would rather 18 have maybe Monday dealing with this and the agenda items, 19 and then next Wednesday, do another budget workshop. Maybe 20 a half-day workshop. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Part of what we're 22 going to hear from the insurance consultant is going to 23 affect the budget more than likely, right? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: I -- I've got to assume it's 25 probably going to have -- he's going to have some 8-22-05 198 1 enlightening information in that respect. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Bet he does. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- I mean, 4 we're -- I'm really -- I'd rather get those things out of 5 the way Monday afternoon. I mean, get the committee 6 appointed and any other agenda items, tidy up items, get 7 that done, and -- and then -- I mean, I see definitely one 8 more budget workshop, and I would -- you know, maybe two. I 9 mean, we haven't even -- we're going to spend this next 10 whole time, and I don't even know if we can get through all 11 that stuff with the -- when the agenda's posted for this 12 Wednesday's workshop. Then we have to talk about salaries, 13 cost-of-living, any merit increases, looking at personnel, 14 looking at -- we have -- after we get all the information 15 presented, we still have a lot of ciphering to do before 16 we're done with budget workshops, so I would say it's going 17 to take two more after Wednesday. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ciphering? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ciphering. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Count me in. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: What's your feeling as to the 22 few items that we need to consider, such as the appointment 23 of a committee and this thing that must be done by 24 September 1 on this new fee, about putting that in tandem 25 with a health benefits workshop with our consultant in the 8-22-05 199 1 afternoon? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sure, post that agenda at 3 1:30 and the workshop at 2:00, something like that. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Monday? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, 29th. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 29th, yeah. Okay. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And bear in mind that 9 after next Wednesday, dove season begins. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, yeah. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So we need to be careful 12 about any more scheduled workshops. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And where are you 14 going to be? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I will be here on 16 Thursday, but I will probably be going to Abilene on Friday. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait a minute. With 18 1:30 court and 2 o'clock insurance? Or budget? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: No, insurance. That's next 20 Monday, the 29th. And if we have a budget workshop, we may 21 be looking at the 31st. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wednesday at what 23 time? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Don't you think we're 25 going to need a budget workshop? Why don't we just go ahead 8-22-05 200 1 and set it? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: 9 o'clock, I would imagine, 3 Wednesday, the 31st. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are we going to be here 5 all day? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I hope not. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you want to set it at 4:30 8 in the hopes we can be through in 30 minutes? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd rather do 1:30, 10 personally, but 9 o'clock's fine. Either 9:00 or 1:30. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 9 o'clock. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: With regard to the agenda for 13 next Monday afternoon, we've identified two issues that we 14 know have to be there. If anybody's got any more that are 15 going to need to make this Monday meeting that have a short 16 fuse on them, the sooner we know about them, the better, so 17 we can get the agenda prepared and get it posted, okay? 18 Anything else, gentlemen? No other elected officials or 19 department heads want to issue any reports? Hearing nothing 20 more, we will stand adjourned. 21 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 2:53 p.m.) 22 - - - - - - - - - - 23 24 25 8-22-05 201 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 5 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 6 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 7 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 30th day of August, 8 2005. 9 10 11 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 12 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 13 Certified Shorthand Reporter 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 8-22-05