1 2 3 4 5 6 7 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 8 Special Session 9 Wednesday, September 7, 2005 10 (Reconvened from September 6, 2005) 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 DAVE NICHOLSON, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X September 7, 2005 2 PAGE (Meeting continued from Sept. 6, 2005) 3 1.2 Consider and discuss and take appropriate action 4 on county personnel issues in various departments, including increase/decrease in staffing levels, 5 salary adjustments, reorganization, reclassification and changes in job description. (Executive Session 6 as necessary or appropriate) 3, 33 _______________________________________________________________ 7 (Meeting scheduled for Sept. 7, 2005) 8 1.1 Consider and discuss the ordering of an Election to 9 be held November 8, 2005 in Precinct 2, Kerr County, Texas for the purpose of "The legal sale of all 10 alcoholic beverages including mixed beverages" as required by Sec 251.14 of the Texas Election Code 27 11 _______________________________________________________________ 12 (September 6th meeting continued) 13 1.1 Consider and discuss and take appropriate action 14 on the Kerr County Juvenile Detention Facility and budget, including staff positions, staffing 15 levels, designation of management personnel, specification of salary grade/step levels. 16 (Executive Session as necessary or appropriate) 30 17 1.3 Consider and discuss approval by record vote of the proposed FY 2005/2006 Tax Rate and set date, time 18 and place of first and second Public Hearings 151 19 --- Adjourned 156 20 21 22 23 24 25 9-7-05 3 1 On Wednesday, September 7, 2005, at 9:00 a.m., a special 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in the 3 Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville, 4 Texas, and the following proceedings were had in open court: 5 P R O C E E D I N G S 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's -- let's come back 7 to order. We have been in recess since yesterday afternoon, 8 to reconvene at 9 a.m. this morning, September the 7th, 9 2005. It's a bit past that time now. We were working on 10 Item Number 2 on the agenda, which was posted for initial 11 consideration yesterday. I believe that the item that we 12 had under consideration was the item that Commissioner 13 Nicholson had brought to the table on personnel staffing 14 levels. Have we concluded all of that? Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not sure. I'd like 16 to come back to that, possibly. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Pardon? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd like to come back to 19 that later. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, later? Okay. All right. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Judge, I don't want 22 to get into any detail on that right now, but it does occur 23 to me that we seem to be focusing on the cost side -- I mean 24 on the revenue side of the budget instead of the cost side. 25 If I'm reading these numbers right, Tommy, our -- it looks 9-7-05 4 1 like our estimated revenues are up substantially from the 2 last year. Tax revenue and non -- non-tax revenue estimated 3 for this year compared to last year are up substantially. 4 MR. TOMLINSON: There has -- a lot of it has 5 to do with sales tax. Also, we've -- our volume as far as 6 fines and fees are, you know, beginning to -- they increase 7 some every year. The sales tax on auto sales, I think I 8 told you this prior to today about what TexDOT has -- has 9 done with auto registration dollars. They diverted the 10 registration on automobiles -- that fee to TexDOT. And, in 11 return, the counties will get the sales tax on the sales 12 of autos. So, it's a -- it's a wash with -- from one fund 13 to the next. And, you know, inflation has -- has something 14 to do with our sales tax also. I think, in general, it 15 looks like that -- that fee collections, you know, they 16 all -- they will grow as the population grows. They're 17 pretty much tied to that. So, I -- I don't -- I'm fairly 18 conservative when I estimate what our actual collections 19 will be, and I don't want to overstate what our fund 20 balances will be. So, I -- if I -- if I have an error, I 21 want to err on the -- 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's good. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: -- low side. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What I'm getting at 25 is, when we talk about how we got in this bind, certainly, 9-7-05 5 1 the $140,000 loss because of the over 65 and disabled is a 2 part of it, but it's a very small part. If we add that 3 $140,000 back, we'd still be in a big bind. Our revenues 4 are up. Costs are the problem. Our costs are too high. 5 MR. TOMLINSON: That's -- it just occurred to 6 me this morning, to analyze what our indigent health care 7 costs have done. And since -- since -- if we budget what we 8 anticipate budgeting for indigent health care costs for 9 '05-'06, and that comes to -- comes to pass that we actually 10 expend that much, and we probably will, then indigent health 11 care costs will have risen 45 -- almost 46 percent since 12 '03-'04. You know, that's 200 and almost 40,000 dollars in 13 two years. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Tommy? At a recent 15 meeting Commissioner Letz and I attended, we heard county 16 judges from other areas of the state expressing not -- not 17 an opinion; their knowledge that unfunded mandates to 18 particular counties could range as high as 60 percent of a 19 county's budget. Would you venture to suggest how much 20 unfunded mandates require out of our budget? 21 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, just -- just indigent 22 health care alone is -- is -- potentially could be 900,000. 23 It's hard to -- I think it's hard to define what -- what an 24 unfunded mandate is. I mean, there -- I mean, my office is 25 an unfunded mandate, because it's -- it's required by -- by 9-7-05 6 1 state law. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: So -- 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's easy for those 5 folks to say we're going to do something and tell the county 6 to figure out a way to pay for it, and that's what the 7 judges that Commissioner Letz and I heard repeatedly from 8 large and small counties around the state talking about, the 9 magnitude of unfunded mandates on county budgets. I 10 don't -- I doubt that we're an exception to the rule. 11 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't know that this -- I 12 don't know if it's that high. I would really have to 13 analyze that. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- 15 MR. TOMLINSON: And I haven't done that. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think when you 17 analyze it, you have to look at the personnel costs that 18 goes into those unfunded mandates as well. I mean, you 19 figure every -- not everything, but all of the indigent 20 defense, all those -- all of that is unfunded. The State 21 says that we have to do that, and we have to do it, and they 22 don't provide any funding for it. So, it depends also how 23 you define unfunded. Maybe you look at anything we're being 24 told by Austin we've got to pay for, and there's a lot of -- 25 MR. TOMLINSON: You know, of course, indigent 9-7-05 7 1 defense is -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Huge. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: -- a huge amount. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Indigent health care, 5 indigent defense. We're talking about probably a million 6 and a half a year. 7 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't know if you'd call 8 this an unfunded mandate or not, but in order for the county 9 to receive state funds for juvenile probation, the county -- 10 the county has to expend at least as much as they did in 11 what they call a base year. And our base year, I think -- I 12 believe is 2001, so the county has to -- you know, is forced 13 to expend at least that base year in order to obtain any 14 funds from the state. So, in my way of thinking, the base 15 year amount at least is an unfunded mandate. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, just those two 17 items -- unfunded indigent health care and indigent 18 defense -- could run as high as 10 percent of our budget. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- I want to change 21 gears just slightly. Mr. Trolinger's back there; you 22 probably know the answer. What is the cost of the Odyssey 23 if we go on a five-year payout, or five-year lease? 24 MR. TOMLINSON: That's -- I have a doctor's 25 appointment at 10 o'clock; I have to leave, so I wanted to 9-7-05 8 1 address that before -- before I had to leave. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: I've had a conversation 4 with -- with our financial adviser, Dusty Traylor. Bob, I 5 think, is on vacation. But -- but the question I asked him 6 was if -- if we purchase this software midyear, you know, 7 January, February, our -- our first payment -- our first 8 principal payment would be due in '07. Because, by 9 purchasing midyear, you cannot levy a tax for the sinking 10 fund, so that -- oh, excuse me -- that tax has to be levied 11 in the '06-'07 year. I believe that we have a great 12 opportunity here to put this county in the -- in the current 13 century as far as technology. Software Group has offered us 14 a tremendous deal on -- on this software. And, I mean, this 15 is our opportunity to -- to have the technology it takes to 16 have a -- you know, online payments for -- for whatever, 17 taxes or fines and fees, and it gives us the -- you know, 18 the opportunity for our -- to really advance the service to 19 our citizens, because they -- as we are right now, we don't 20 have the ability for John Doe citizen to obtain information 21 directly without coming to the courthouse, basically. And I 22 know this is especially true for -- for the real estate 23 industry and the financial people in the community, because 24 they -- they depend a lot -- they do a lot of research in 25 county records. 9-7-05 9 1 So, I -- you know, and I've already -- I said 2 this once before; that -- that also, I think it gives us a 3 way to get ourselves into this century with purchasing. I 4 think we're -- you know, the county's large enough to have 5 centralized purchasing. And, I mean, I just believe that -- 6 that that's something that we need to do; maybe not this 7 year, but sometime soon. I read an article in -- in County 8 Progress Magazine this week about -- just a paragraph about 9 Gray County, and that's in the panhandle, that -- that have 10 bought some software just to allow them online tax payments. 11 And, you know, that's a county of 22,000, 23,000 people. 12 So, you know, that's in the mind of -- I think of county 13 officials statewide, to make -- make records, county records 14 more accessible to -- to the general public. So, I think 15 that's -- that's a trend that will -- at one point, will 16 probably be demanded of us. I mean, I think that at some 17 point, you know, the public will demand that we -- that we 18 have that -- that they have that access. And I think -- I 19 mean, if we wait, you know, into the next year, this -- this 20 same software could double in price. In fact, they've told 21 us that. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm about sold on that. 23 So, you're telling me that the -- there's no dollar impact 24 in this year's budget from that -- buying that? 25 MR. TOMLINSON: No, none at all. 9-7-05 10 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. The way I look at 2 the numbers -- and see if I'm online here, basically. I see 3 that -- well, here's what -- if we did this, we would come 4 close to balancing. Reduce four staff somewhere -- I'm not 5 saying where -- in addition to everything else, pretty much 6 off of -- and they're going to be, you know, possibly County 7 Clerk; I don't know where they're going to be. Roughly 8 figuring, if we reduce four staff, get rid of a dump truck 9 out of Road and Bridge, two-cent tax increase, give a COLA, 10 and $200,000 loss at the KEDF (sic), all of that is about 11 balancing, and keeps our reserves about 20 percent, which is 12 horribly low. I mean -- well, the way I look at that, a 13 dump truck's 52,000. Get rid of four employees -- I hate to 14 say "get rid of," but that's what it is, in reality. 15 $200,000 savings. Two-cent tax increase is $400,000. The 16 COLA's 235,000 to the negative, and the Juvenile Detention 17 Facility, no matter what we do out there, is going to cost 18 another $200,000 loss this year. So, I figured we -- the 19 COLA and the KE -- the Juvenile Detention Facility is 20 435,000. That's offset by basically a tax increase, and 21 then you have to reduce employees, as well as start getting 22 reserves up to 20 percent, which is still too low. 23 And, going back to what Commissioner 24 Nicholson said, the impact is only 150,000 this year. Next 25 year it's bigger, and the year after it's bigger. That's 9-7-05 11 1 one cent right there, almost, that decision cost this 2 county. And what we're doing right now by that decision, 3 and we can't undo it, is that the young taxpayers are being 4 forced to pay a disproportionate part of the tax of this 5 county, and we're going to have to raise the taxes, as I see 6 it, on the young people that are paying the taxes now to 7 subsidize the elderly. That's my opinion; that's where we 8 need to go. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Commissioner, I like 10 what you said, except the two-cent tax increase. I don't 11 think we've worked the cost side hard enough. I think we 12 can mete two cents worth of costs out of this budget. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't see where there's 14 $400,000 in additional savings. I'm already taking, 15 basically, as I'm looking at it, probably one from the Tax 16 Assessor, one from the County Clerk, probably one from the 17 District Clerk, and one from Maintenance. That's where I 18 see the people. And I -- and I know -- I see Paula shaking 19 her head, and I know Jannett will as well. Linda wasn't 20 even on the chopping block yesterday, but, you know, they're 21 some of the bigger departments. We're taking, in Road and 22 Bridge, the equivalent of an employee by getting rid of some 23 of the equipment. I just don't see how we can balance the 24 budget. We cannot -- I won't vote for a budget that is 25 going to put our reserves at less than 20 percent. It's 9-7-05 12 1 just -- it's -- it's not the right thing to do, especially 2 after we see what's happening in Louisiana, which disasters 3 can hit us, and that is horribly low. We need to get our 4 reserves back to 25 percent next year. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Tommy, what's in this 6 current printout? 7 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, it's a slight change in 8 non-tax revenues. But back to the issue about the sales tax 9 and the autos, I had taken that amount out of the Road and 10 Bridge non-tax revenues, but I had not added it back to the 11 general fund. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. That explains 13 why that fund balance went to 21.7 from where it was 14 yesterday. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: That's correct. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. On the expense 17 side, anything different in that? 18 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Cost of living's not 20 in there? 21 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: If it makes you feel any 24 better about -- about the fund balance, over the years our 25 trend has been for the ratio of non-tax revenue to tax 9-7-05 13 1 revenue to -- to increase, so we have -- we have -- over the 2 years, we've had a smaller dependency on tax revenues, as it 3 relates to the whole. And for the -- you know, for the most 4 part, non-tax revenues come to us on a regular basis. In 5 other words, they're a flat amount almost each month. So, I 6 think -- I think you can -- you could temper that -- that 7 fund balance ratio somewhat by the fact that part of your 8 revenues you receive on a monthly basis, so you don't 9 have -- you don't have to depend on the non -- you don't 10 have to worry about the noncollection of tax revenues in 11 October and November as much as we did 15 years ago. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But also, our reserves -- 13 when I became a Commissioner, our reserves were in the 14 neighborhood of 35, you know, and now we're below 20. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: Right. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That trend has got to 17 stop. 18 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, I agree that there -- 19 there is -- there is a bottom to that, and I think it's 20 necessary to have a bottom. But I just wanted to bring that 21 up, just because of -- of the trend that we've seen in the 22 ratio of non-tax revenues. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But we're also, this 24 year, in Road and Bridge -- and if we do the computer 25 system, we're buying things now and paying for them later, 9-7-05 14 1 which is going to have an impact. I mean, it means that 2 next year we're just going to get worse -- it's going to get 3 worse and worse every year. We need to bite the bullet this 4 year. I think every department has told me that the new 5 computer program's going to save personnel, but yet no 6 departments have reduced personnel. Well, we need to reduce 7 personnel. I mean, everyone has said this is going to help 8 us, but no one's willing to take a cut there, and we just 9 can't do both. We just don't have the money. I've thought 10 about the option of trying to put a hiring freeze on due to 11 attrition, but as I recall, there was an Attorney General 12 opinion that said that's illegal, so that's not an option; 13 we can't go through attrition. As I recall, that Attorney 14 General opinion stated that once we have a position in the 15 budget, we can -- that position can be filled for the budget 16 year. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, we have to actually 19 cut; we can't reduce through attrition. That's my -- that's 20 where I see we need to go today. I'd like to be out of here 21 by noon. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, you certainly 23 laid down the asphalt for us to travel on, didn't you? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: The reduction of four 25 employees that you're talking about, Commissioner, that's 9-7-05 15 1 over and above the Juvenile Detention Facility, I assume? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, that's above the 3 reductions that we discussed in executive session with -- 4 there. And it's in addition to the -- basically, the 5 reduction from the Sheriff yesterday of the security. So, I 6 mean, the Sheriff's is already included, as is Juvenile 7 Detention Facility. That's four additional employees 8 somewhere. I mean, I don't -- you know, I named four 9 departments. You know, that's mainly because those are the 10 departments that have the most people. I see it's hard to 11 -- I mean, you can't -- you know, obviously, we can't -- 12 Commissioners Court can't reduce one; we only have one, and 13 I think other departments are in the same situation. Just 14 the way -- you know, the way I see that. There's some other 15 things I think I'd like to look at. I mean, if we took 16 those -- I think if we do what I outlined today, we'll still 17 have a horrible year next year. I mean, this is just the 18 first step. I can see next year another round of cuts or 19 something, 'cause we just can't keep on -- we just don't 20 have the money. And I'm putting in a two-cent -- I never 21 thought that I would recommend a two-cent tax increase. 22 That's including a tax increase. You have to reduce 23 employees. And I'm -- the only way that I can, myself, get 24 to the point of a tax increase is in conjunction with 25 reducing employees. It's not -- you know, I'm not willing 9-7-05 16 1 to do the tax increase if we're not reducing staff. 2 MS. NEMEC: Judge? On the figures that I 3 turned in to Tommy, I did not reduce the two employees that 4 y'all are talking about in the Sheriff's Office. Because 5 those were employees that were not filled again this year; 6 is that correct? 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Those two that I gave 8 up, they were in this current budget. 9 MS. NEMEC: Okay, then they're in my figures. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And one passed away, and 11 the other one, I had it open. I chose, in the cutting of 12 employees, not to fill those positions. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: So they're probably 15 still in the figures. 16 MS. NEMEC: They are. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Of those two. 18 MS. NEMEC: They're in the figures that I 19 gave Tommy. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Which would be two that 21 just -- we decided we're not filling. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We need to figure out 23 what's in and what's out. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Sheriff, with regard to the 25 one on the courthouse security that you said was not 9-7-05 17 1 essential, assuming us folks in the courthouse can live 2 without that, and certainly I'm perfectly willing to do so, 3 that, as I recall, was about a $40,000 difference. In the 4 discussion that we had yesterday, I believe you expressed 5 some concern about -- you see your fuel costs, based upon 6 your consumption rates, being considerably more by about 7 35,000 to 40,000 above what we thought was an adequate 8 budget this year because of recent increases in your -- in 9 your fuel usage by gallons. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, it's not recent 11 increases in our fuel usage by gallon, it's just recent 12 increases in the price of fuel. We're using about the same. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Historical usage, I'm sorry. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: In our historical usage, 15 my only concern is, right now we're paying about $1.95 a 16 gallon, okay, because we're a little bit less with the taxes 17 and the contracts we have. My concern is, if that fuel 18 continues the way it is, if it goes to $2.50 a gallon that 19 we're paying, which is already 50 cents lower than most of 20 us individually are paying, then that will be about a 21 $35,000 shortfall in what we got budgeted for fuel. Now, I 22 have not -- that line item is fuel and oil, okay? All our 23 oil changes come out of that same line item. The fuel alone 24 would be about $135,000. In our proposed budget for fuel 25 and oil, we only have $100,000, so I'm afraid that that 9-7-05 18 1 could fall short, depending on what gas prices do and oil 2 prices do. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: I guess the point I'm making 4 is that, realistically, we're looking at a distinct 5 possibility that what we gain from deleting that one 6 additional courthouse security deputy is maybe a wash as to 7 the additional fuel costs that you're talking about. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Unless fuel comes down, 9 you're right. There was the -- the one other line item that 10 the State has brought home, you might say an unfunded one, 11 that will cost us about another $3,000 this year. We 12 budgeted in radio repairs $2,000. The State of Texas has 13 come out with six new radio frequencies for their 14 interoperability, so we don't have the problem Louisiana is 15 having right now, and all our radios will be required to be 16 reprogrammed with -- that's portables and car radios, which 17 total about 94 radios that have to have these new 18 frequencies reprogrammed into them at a cost of anywhere 19 from $30 to $40 per radio, depending on the type of radio. 20 So, that's an additional $3,000 that will have to be added 21 to that line item. Now, going back to -- to -- so that 22 could be a wash on the one courthouse employee, that 23 security we're giving up. Now, if Barbara had the other 24 employees still figured in the budget, in what you're -- 25 you're looking at now, one of those employees, the pay would 9-7-05 19 1 have been without the FICA and retirement, insurance and all 2 that. The County's base pay would have been about -- do you 3 have the current one, Barbara? I've got about 21,000 on 4 that one employee. 5 MS. NEMEC: It shows open position. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, do you have it at 7 the -- 8 MS. NEMEC: That one and then this one here. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: One of those was a 17-2, 10 which was a sergeant's position in the jail in that 17-2 11 position. 12 MS. NEMEC: It should have the amount on it. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's 30,840 -- or 30,083 14 that could be added back in. Now, that was not -- 15 MS. NEMEC: That does not include the 16 3.2 percent cost-of-living. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And it also doesn't 18 include the FICA and retirement and all that. 19 MS. NEMEC: No. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: So it doesn't include -- 21 so you got about almost 40,000 there. And then the next 22 employee that she has figured in that we're not filling is 23 another $20,036, so you're talking about 28,000 there. So 24 you're about 68,000, so somewhere right around there, 68 to 25 70 thousand that you can take off employee expenses there 9-7-05 20 1 when you figure in FICA and retirement. But she has figured 2 in that; y'all don't need to. So, the two you're talking 3 about, Jonathan -- or the four you're talking about, since 4 they're already in there, that could still be figured as two 5 of those four. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: One's in the jail. 7 Where's the other one? 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: One is in the Sheriff's 9 Office itself; that's one of the clerks, and one was a 10 sergeant in the jail. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Paula, what is the 13 rollback rate going to be if we went with a two-cent tax 14 increase? Is that going to be -- 15 MS. RECTOR: Let me -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Which I suspect probably 17 would put us -- 18 MS. RECTOR: I think you're going to be 19 under. 20 MR. TOMLINSON: I gave it to you yesterday. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On that sheet? 22 MS. RECTOR: 3975. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 3975? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, that's it. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 9-7-05 21 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But the overall impact 2 of those three positions would be right at 100,000. Now, 30 3 of it would probably need to come back, or somewhere around 4 there. You may just figure -- if the gas price does come 5 down, we're doing good; you may figure 20,000 extra. I'm 6 just afraid the 100 we're at right now, the way the trend's 7 going, is not going to be enough, so if you add 20 more into 8 the gas, then you're still looking at an $80,000 increase in 9 your amount you have to deal with there with three 10 employees. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I just want to 12 express my -- express my appreciation for Commissioner Letz' 13 thoughtful view of where we are. I'm not so sure that I'm 14 exactly on the same page in terms of a tax increase, but I 15 certainly am on the same page with his assessment of our -- 16 our position, and there was some expressions yesterday about 17 what we did in our blind haste to rush to judgment on the 18 tax freeze, and that's exactly what it was. Some of us 19 favored a different approach. We didn't -- we didn't have 20 the political will to see that different approach through, 21 and now we're paying the piper to the tune of about 22 $140,000, and it will only get higher as the years go along, 23 so that's one of the things for which we can lay some blame 24 on our own doorstep. With respect to the numbers you gave 25 us, Tommy, we now know that the Sheriff has a couple jobs 9-7-05 22 1 plugged into that number that -- that shouldn't be there. 2 Yesterday, we -- you may not know, but yesterday we asked 3 Ms. Harris to take a look at -- at her staffing, and she's 4 going to tell us at some point in time how she can do some 5 things a little bit differently, which also should provide 6 some savings. I'm not sure how much, but I'm sure there are 7 going to be some somewhere along the line there. But I 8 don't hear anybody else stepping up to the plate, and I 9 think that we need to have some more thoughtful dialogue as 10 to how we can trim some expenses. We've got to do it from 11 both sides, both from the revenue side, and we have to do it 12 from the expense side, and Commissioner Nicholson's made a 13 pretty compelling presentation about the expense side. So, 14 I think we got to get with it. 15 MS. PIEPER: Gentlemen, I will consent to get 16 rid of one employee, but there's no way I can get rid of 17 two. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, that's a plus. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Big help. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What would you -- 21 what would you project that cost savings to be? 22 MS. PIEPER: A Step 13. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 30,000. 24 MS. PIEPER: No. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If you figure benefits 9-7-05 23 1 and -- 2 MS. PIEPER: Oh. Well, yeah, that could be. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: With everything 4 rolled in. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 30,000. 6 MS. NEMEC: With benefits, it would be 7 approximately 30,000. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Just picked up 9 100,000. Anybody else want to step to the plate? 10 MS. RECTOR: I would like to request 11 executive session, if I might. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else we need -- 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mr. Holekamp has his 16 hand up. 17 MR. HOLEKAMP: I indicated to y'all yesterday 18 that I was willing to do what it took. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you want to 20 translate that for us? 21 MR. HOLEKAMP: Well, I think the proposal was 22 -- if I remember correctly, is combining two different 23 departments that currently are not together, and then I 24 eliminate two positions combined out of the two. Is that 25 correct? Am I -- am I close? That was Commissioner 9-7-05 24 1 Nicholson's proposal. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That was one 3 variation on the model. The other variation would be to 4 combine three departments, and that would include 5 Environmental Health also. 6 MR. HOLEKAMP: Okay. The issue -- I guess 7 what I'm saying is, I'm willing to -- to do one employee, 8 but if I had to do two out of just Maintenance itself, it 9 would be difficult. But, as I said yesterday, I work at the 10 pleasure of the Court and I'll do whatever you ask me. So, 11 volunteering to cut people's jobs, as -- as just a 12 department head -- I'm not an elected official -- I think it 13 wouldn't be necessary at this time. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think what I'm hearing 15 is there's probably one -- one slot out there. I'm not sure 16 exactly about two, 'cause I'm not sure about that -- if it's 17 a good idea to combine those two departments, necessarily. 18 But I think that in Maintenance, there is -- there is one, 19 and I think there may be some reorganization coupled with 20 that. I'd like to talk with Mr. Holekamp in executive 21 session a little bit about how I'm thinking of that -- 22 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- working. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'd like to. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think there's one in 9-7-05 25 1 Maintenance as well. Did I hear that? 2 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yeah, that's what I indicated. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Any member of the Court have 4 anything additional to talk about in open or public session 5 at this juncture, or are we ready to go into executive? 6 Wait a minute, we've got somebody coming here. 7 MR. TROLINGER: If -- if the Court's going to 8 go ahead and install the Odyssey, the tax and financial 9 software packages, next year, I'll have basically people 10 on-site, contractors giving training and -- and doing 11 installation work on a continuous basis, so Information 12 Technology, the additional full-time position could be 13 withdrawn. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I didn't hear you. 15 MR. TROLINGER: Information Technology's 16 additional full-time position could be withdrawn. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, thank you. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Don't stop. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's so rare I hear 20 that, that I -- 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There's some 22 creativity brewing out there. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else that we need to 24 talk about in open or public? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- and this is a 9-7-05 26 1 question. The new proposal that Ms. Harris -- we asked her 2 to develop, I see that as an open session item at this 3 point. I don't know that that needs to be back in closed 4 session. No, it can't be in open session; she's saying it's 5 personnel-related. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A nod of the head 7 meaning what? Yes? 8 MS. HARRIS: I'm sorry? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Executive session. 10 MS. HARRIS: Executive session. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you cool with 12 that, Mr. County Attorney? 13 MR. EMERSON: As long as it's specific 14 positions and not classes. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm sure that's what she's 17 going to be talking about, based upon the discussions of 18 yesterday. At this point, then, we will go out of open or 19 public session. It is 9:43. 20 (The open session was closed at 9:43 a.m., and an executive session was held, the 21 transcript of which is contained in a separate document.) 22 - - - - - - - - - - 23 JUDGE TINLEY: We will go back into open or 24 public session of the special Commissioners Court meeting 25 that was recessed from yesterday. And it is now 10:13, and 9-7-05 27 1 by virtue of another meeting that we have posted, I will 2 recess that special Commissioners Court meeting that was 3 reconvened from yesterday, and I will call to order a 4 special Commissioners Court meeting scheduled for today, 5 Wednesday, September 7, 2005, at 10 a.m. It is past that 6 time now. There's only one item on that agenda, that being 7 the consideration and discussion of the ordering of an 8 election to be held November 8, 2005, in Precinct 2, Kerr 9 County, Texas, for the purpose of the legal sale of all 10 alcoholic beverages including mixed beverages, as required 11 by Section 251.14 of the Texas Election Code. Commissioner 12 2, what do you have for us today? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Judge. I 14 see no one who is representing the initiative drive in the 15 audience, but I would ask the County Tax Assessor/Collector, 16 who oversees voter registration and so forth, if she could 17 give the Court a report on what she knows about the number 18 of petitions, names that were certified as required by law, 19 so we know whether or not we have enough to call an election 20 or not. 21 MS. RECTOR: At this time, we've had no 22 additional petitions come into my office that I'm aware of, 23 unless they came in since 9 o'clock. I think the number 24 count yesterday was at 244 valid signatures. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: And that is what percentage of 9-7-05 28 1 the amount required for referendum? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: About one-sixth. 3 MS. RECTOR: Yeah, about one-sixth. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Gosh. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Hearing that, Judge, 6 I'd say that there is no action required of the Court with 7 respect to setting a date for an election -- a local option 8 election on the November ballot in Precinct 2. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Any member of the Court have 10 anything further to offer with regard to that particular 11 agenda item? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll drink to that. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Anything further? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's cool. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: If there's nothing further on 16 that particular agenda item, and that being the only agenda 17 item, I will adjourn the special Commissioners Court meeting 18 scheduled for Wednesday, September 7th, 2005, at 10 a.m., 19 and I will reconvene the special Commissioners Court meeting 20 that was convened yesterday, Tuesday, September 6th, and 21 reconvened this morning, so we're now back in public or open 22 session. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's see. Which 24 meeting are we in right now? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: We're in the September -- 9-7-05 29 1 we're in yesterday's meeting. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yesterday's meeting. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, that's where we are. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Stepping back in 6 time. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How about if we take a 8 short break, and then when we come back in, we'll be in 9 executive session with the Juvenile Detention Facility 10 matter. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sounds good. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We will stand in recess 13 for about 15 minutes. 14 (Recess taken from 10:15 a.m. to 10:40 a.m.) 15 - - - - - - - - - - 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, let's come back to 17 order. We've been in recess, so we'll come back to order in 18 our Commissioners Court meeting that we have resumed from 19 yesterday, after having adjourned yesterday evening. The 20 request that I recall having shortly before we went into 21 recess was to go back into closed session to consider some 22 more personnel matters. So, at this time, at -- at 10:42, 23 we will go out of closed or public session, and we will go 24 into closed/executive session. 25 \ 9-7-05 30 1 (The open session was closed at 10:42 a.m., and an Executive Session was held, the 2 transcript of which is contained in a separate document.) 3 - - - - - - - - - - 4 (Discussion off the record.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: We're back in open session now 6 at 11:28. We're on Item 2 on the agenda that we resumed 7 from being recessed yesterday. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're on -- I'm sorry, 9 Judge, where are we? The general discussion or the juvenile 10 facility discussion? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I called the general. 12 If you want to go back to the juvenile, we can go there. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I'm ready to go 14 back to juvenile and make a decision on that one. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Let's return to 16 the first item on the agenda dealing with appropriate action 17 on Kerr County Juvenile Detention Facility and budget, 18 including staff positions, staffing levels, designation of 19 management personnel, and specification of salary grade/step 20 levels. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the Auditor isn't 22 here. He's actually -- 23 MS. UECKER: He had to go to the doctor. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. I didn't know how 25 long he'd be gone. What needs to be communicated to the 9-7-05 31 1 Auditor, from my standpoint, is what I'd like to see in the 2 new numbers is the scenario of operating a 48-bed facility, 3 and there is a reduction in staff of four, and reduction in 4 salaries of the administrator and the assistant 5 administrator. And the -- and request that Ms. Harris get 6 with the Auditor and get those numbers reflected into the 7 budget. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'd just point out, 9 Commissioner, the reduction of four is four additional 10 reductions. There were three reductions in the current 11 budget, so it's a total reduction of seven positions. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Minus seven. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Minus seven, and 14 reduction in salaries of the manager and assistant manager. 15 And there's some other operational issues that will be based 16 on the recommendation of the facility manager. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 48 pre and post. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 48 pre and post. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Are we through with the 20 juvenile facility? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do we need to take a vote 22 on that? As a -- I mean -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: We can certainly do that. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make that -- what I 25 just stated as a motion. 9-7-05 32 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll second it. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to 3 approve the staffing and -- and salary structure at the 4 Juvenile Detention Facility. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm wondering, Judge, 6 if we shouldn't include the salary structure, the actual 7 numbers, in that motion. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think what we can 9 do is, I think we can accept the -- this big number -- the 10 step's the first number? We accept the steps of those 11 positions. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's fine. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The manager will be a 14 Step 34. The assistant will be a 28. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the grade. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's the grade? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Grade 34, Step 6. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, grade. So bring 19 that -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: And the assistant will be 21 Grade 28, Step 7. 22 MS. NEMEC: 28-7 and 34 what? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Six. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Six. With that clarification, 25 any further question or discussion? All in favor of the 9-7-05 33 1 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 2 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 4 (No response.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We 6 will now go to Item 2, consider and discuss and take 7 appropriate action on county personnel issues in various 8 departments, including increase and decrease in staffing 9 levels, salary adjustments, reorganization, 10 reclassifications, and changes in job description. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, just to get this 12 started, after communication I've received from the Road and 13 Bridge Department, they'd like to reduce staff by one, and 14 as a trade-off, they get their dump truck. So, a staff 15 reduction of one, but the dump truck is back in the budget. 16 And I -- I support that change. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would too. Well, 18 the newspaper wasn't far off this morning. They identified 19 15 potentials. As I look at it, that's 15 potentials right 20 there. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We're not through 22 yet. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'd like to talk 25 about Animal Control now, if you're ready to talk about 9-7-05 34 1 that. Because of the uncertainty over whether or not Kerr 2 County will be providing animal control services to 3 Kerrville, I'm proposing to revise the Rabies and Animal 4 Control budget to reflect a staff reduction from a total of 5 five employees to a total of three employees, which is based 6 on the expectation that we will not be providing services to 7 the city of Kerrville. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If the alternative 9 occurs, Commissioner? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If the alternative 11 occurs, the revenue coming from the City basically funds 12 that staff difference. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what I wanted 14 to get in the record. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes, that's a good 16 point. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, the city -- it's a -- 18 it's a kind of a wash from the standpoint of the reduced 19 revenue coming in from the city. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let me just also say 21 that that would have some other implications. Rolling 22 stock, we wouldn't need as much as we've got, which is a -- 23 maybe a timely sort of a thing, since we blew an engine on 24 one of our trucks recently. It would also defer the need 25 for a sizable capital expenditure in the next few years, 9-7-05 35 1 because we wouldn't be outgrowing the facility at the rate 2 we are now. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And then I guess a -- 4 back to a topic we've touched on before when we start 5 working numbers in. In the Maintenance Department, a 6 reduction of one, and the function of booking of the Ag Barn 7 will be moved to the Commissioners Court, and there will not 8 be a -- a combining of those departments at this time, or of 9 any -- you know, the Animal Control, Maintenance, 10 Environmental Health will all stay separate for one more 11 year -- or for a while. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We'll look at that 13 outside the budget process during next year. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the other one that I 15 think I would like to see pursued is reduce one-half an 16 employee in the Treasurer's office and move the functions 17 of -- I don't know how you describe it -- personnel 18 function, being the employee manual, job descriptions, 19 handouts with insurance, those such functions, everything 20 except payroll and the actual financial matters we can move 21 to Commissioners Court, and there is a new position added to 22 Commissioners Court. So, basically, the net change is 23 reducing one and a half and adding one. I hope someone's 24 keeping a tally of where we are and getting all these 25 comments so we can figure out where we're going to be. 9-7-05 36 1 MS. NEMEC: I'm sorry, reducing how many in 2 mine? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Half. 4 MS. NEMEC: Half? With all personnel 5 functions going to Commissioners Court except payroll? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. And we need to 7 get -- 8 MS. NEMEC: Retirement? All -- all benefits? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 10 MS. NEMEC: Insurance, retirement, workers 11 comp, all that? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that handled by a 14 half a person now? 15 MS. NEMEC: No, the only thing that my 16 part-timer handles is revenues and accounts payable. My 17 chief deputy handles all personnel, retirement, workers 18 comp, insurance, all the other type of insurances that we 19 offer, all the other deductions, unemployment, all that. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's the percentage 21 of her time devoted to those functions? 22 MS. NEMEC: Well, that's all she does, that 23 and payroll, and she can't do that in a 40-hour week as it 24 is. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think we need to 9-7-05 37 1 talk about that. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: May need to look at that 3 a little bit more. 4 MS. NEMEC: There's a lot to personnel. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think we need to 6 talk about that a little bit more -- 7 MS. NEMEC: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- with Ms. Nemec. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me see if I got the 10 scorecard where we are at this point, gentlemen. Road and 11 Bridge, minus one. Maintenance, minus one. Information 12 Technology, minus one. Treasurer, minus one-half. Animal 13 Control, minus two. Sheriff's Office, minus one. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I thought it was two. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, two were -- 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Actually, it's three. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's three. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, if there -- there are 19 two included that shouldn't have been included, then we're 20 taking the one courthouse security, but the two are in 21 there, so it would be minus three, correct? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Minus three. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. County Clerk, 24 minus one. What did we do with Environmental Health? 25 Anything? 9-7-05 38 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No change. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Juvenile Detention 4 Facility. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That budget's up -- 6 since we staffed it, it's up 42 percent, one and a half 7 people versus three and a half when we staffed it. Wrong 8 direction. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I mean, I agree, 10 except my feeling is that we didn't staff it strong enough 11 when we started, and I think I voiced that at that time. My 12 concern there is the complaints that I'm -- that I do get is 13 -- we're going to make even worse if we cut the staff on the 14 solid waste -- I mean on the environmental health side. 15 O.S.S.F., the issue is scheduling -- that I hear is the 16 scheduling of the inspections, is what's causing time, and 17 if we cut back there, that's going to make that problem 18 worse. Now, I don't have a -- you know, I guess I could 19 live with it, but it's -- we're going in the direction of 20 getting more complaints, and I think solid waste is 21 something that -- you know, I guess I would be more inclined 22 to reduce a half in solid waste than I would be on the 23 O.S.S.F. side, because I think solid waste is something that 24 we need, but I also -- 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's -- I suggest, 9-7-05 39 1 like we're doing with Animal Control and Facilities and 2 Maintenance, that we study that issue. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: In the off-season. 5 I think it's too many people, but -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Have I got the scorecard 8 correct so far, gentlemen? Juvenile facility, minus four, 9 in addition to the three previously cut that are not 10 included in the -- were not included in that budget that was 11 brought to us. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The IT function, did 13 you get that one they gave up that -- 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Did you get the 16 County Clerk? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Yep. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And then there's a plus 19 one on Commissioners Court. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Mm-hmm. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: My quick math tells 22 me that's about $450,000 worth of reductions, roughly. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's -- I mean, I think 24 we're at a point that we've made so many changes, we need to 25 get Tommy to rerun the numbers and see what the -- 9-7-05 40 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Because the next step 3 is -- hopefully we're -- maybe we're there, but my -- I 4 suspect there's still going to be a tax increase in addition 5 to all this. Judge, the Maintenance Supervisor has a 6 question. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, I'm sorry. Mr. Holekamp? 8 MR. HOLEKAMP: Okay. Now, y'all -- y'all 9 approved a 48-bed juvenile facility; is that correct? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, sir. 11 MR. HOLEKAMP: Okay. And I'm asked to reduce 12 maintenance, and I'm going to get another building -- 13 another jail, basically. Now, how are we going to address 14 that? I've got a man in this budget, so I'm not going to -- 15 what's the intentions of the Court here? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ms. Harris, in your 17 proposed budget that you presented on the juvenile facility, 18 what have you -- is there a maintenance number built into 19 there? 20 MS. HARRIS: No, sir, because y'all asked 21 that the maintenance person that we had out there full-time 22 this budget year, that that line item be moved to the 23 Maintenance Department so we would be in conjunction with 24 all the other departments. So, the maintenance person that 25 I've had in this budget year, his salary is not in my 9-7-05 41 1 budget; we were putting it in Glenn's budget. That was the 2 wish of the Court. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The jail maintenance, 4 the full-time position, one of your staff takes that up? 5 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Does he actually work 7 full-time in the jail? 8 MS. HARRIS: Yes. 9 MR. HOLEKAMP: I'd say 90 percent of the 10 time, yes, sir. 10 percent of the time, I utilize him here. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The jail -- the actual 12 adult jail maintenance is a major part of Glenn's deal. We 13 probably -- 'cause I approve all the maintenance requests 14 every morning, and we're probably averaging anywhere from 10 15 to 20 maintenance requests per day on either leaky faucets, 16 different things, and the pipe chase, different blocks or 17 stuff like that. So, that is a -- a large amount of that 18 person's time, and that's not counting his people coming 19 over doing the cleaning in the Sheriff's Office part. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's the level of 21 maintenance that you're experiencing right now, Ms. Harris? 22 MS. HARRIS: I'm sorry, is what? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What is the level of 24 maintenance you're experiencing right now? 25 MS. HARRIS: Quite a bit in that older 9-7-05 42 1 building. Plumbing issues are the major part, and -- and 2 the cleaning of the facility and keeping the grounds, and -- 3 and, of course, you've got the second building that you 4 still have to have some maintenance on, you know, 'cause you 5 need somebody to go over there and keep those toilets 6 flushed and keep the water flowing over there. And he works 7 all the time, every day. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: "He" being someone on 9 your staff, or somebody from Mr. Holekamp's staff? 10 MS. HARRIS: Currently he's on my staff for 11 this budget, for the '04-'05 budget. For the '05-'06, he 12 will be on Mr. Holekamp's budget. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I got you, okay. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We may have to relook at 15 the maintenance. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Might have to look at 17 that. But that does sort of raise another question here, 18 another -- not a question, but perhaps an opportunity. If 19 -- now that we've decided what the size of the juvenile 20 detention facility is going to be, that's going to spring 21 open a building for a possibility of other uses, and I think 22 the Court should take a look at figuring out how to retrofit 23 that building to accommodate Adult Probation from both 24 districts and move them out there and utilize that building, 25 cut out the rent that we're paying elsewhere. 9-7-05 43 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree with that, but I 2 think that, you know, we have enough on our table just 3 trying to get a budget hammered out without trying to figure 4 out moving -- 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't mean today. 6 I mean we need to take a look at it; I don't mean today. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it goes -- 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just an initiative. 9 We need to take a look at it. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Harris has some thoughts 12 on that, I think. 13 MS. HARRIS: When you're discussing that, 14 please keep in mind that there are not enough classrooms in 15 the 48-bed building, in the old building, so we are 16 utilizing the two classrooms in the new building for KISD 17 kids. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's something we, 19 you know, have to examine in terms of -- 20 MS. HARRIS: Right. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- how it could be 22 done or if it could be done. 23 MS. HARRIS: Right. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: What else do we have, 25 gentlemen? 9-7-05 44 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I got a couple 2 questions. Have we agreed that we don't want to fund the 3 fourth agent in the Extension Office? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. Have we -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The position will stay 7 open; we're just not going to fund it this year. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What are we going to 9 do about the opportunity to put two J.P. offices together 10 and reduce clerical staff? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't see that this 12 year right now. I think it's something that needs to be 13 looked at, though. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I was wondering if -- 15 Judge Castillo is in the room. Wonder if he'd want to 16 reduce his staff by two or three. 17 JUDGE CASTILLO: Well, let me tell you what 18 we do. Since January, we've generated $144,000 in service 19 and fines, and my clerk is busy up to her hairline, and I'm 20 in there trying to do as much as I can. If you reduce that, 21 I'll -- I'll be in there by myself. And -- 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Claudio, I'm joking, 23 okay? You didn't get the joke? Sorry. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think, you know, my 25 view is where we go on -- I'd like to see a new run with 9-7-05 45 1 this plugged in on the salaries. I mean, we've made so many 2 changes, I think that there is a -- I don't want to put 3 it -- you know, the numbers aren't that big, but I think we 4 need to look at the Commissioners Court situation, step and 5 grade of the new person, where that would be, and versus 6 also where Ms. Mitchell will be. I think we also need to 7 look at the Information Technology Department, since we're 8 not adding a person there, on that step and grade issue and 9 what that entails. And then, based on the numbers tomorrow, 10 just so -- if we need more staff reductions, I'm going to 11 look to the elected officials. That's going to be Sheriff's 12 Department and District Clerk. That's where I think 13 there's -- you know, I mean, I just -- we've come a long way 14 today. Hopefully it's far enough, but I think we're at the 15 point now with Rusty -- and it's deputies, which I know 16 you're going to object strongly, and I don't want to do it 17 either, but there's a limit to how much we can go up on 18 taxes. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: If I might mention, with 20 regard to the Extension Service position, that position that 21 you're speaking of is funded 60 -- 65 percent, thereabouts, 22 by the State. And Ms. Mapston, who's the district director 23 out of Uvalde, had indicated earlier today that she was 24 going to be sending me some information dealing with the 25 impact on county residents, and she had hoped to get that up 9-7-05 46 1 here sometime today. And I -- I told her that if she would 2 get me that information, I would give it to the Court, and I 3 think I owe her that courtesy. I think there's -- number 4 one, we need to look at the information, and number two, 5 from a pure economic standpoint, not -- not funding that 6 position is -- because of the amount the State pays, is not 7 that much of a savings to us. But those two factors, I just 8 -- I just wanted to get the information before you. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Except that the -- when 10 Mr. Walston was in, adding that spot was the justification 11 for hiring a secretary, which is our responsibility. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's right. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, the cost of that 14 position may not, but there's some ripple effects if we get 15 four agents out there, because bringing in the one -- the 16 juvenile -- the new one funded primarily through Juvenile 17 Probation, we have the Extension Agent, we have the 4-H 18 Coordinator. Mr. Walston's comment was, with four people 19 out there, we need another secretary. And I think that 20 that's -- you know, you get to the point that -- don't know 21 until you fund it, but it's just a consideration. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, now, from 23 your -- your point of view there, I think, you know, you 24 look at -- most of these reductions that we've made today 25 could possibly reduce the service to the taxpayers. So, you 9-7-05 47 1 know, I mean, that's just the name of the game when you -- 2 that's what they hired us to do, and that just -- that's 3 just part of the gig. I want to bring up another point. 4 This new position in the Commissioners Court, are you 5 thinking about going out and advertising for that position, 6 or are we going to move somebody around? I wanted to bring 7 up a point that we have a county employee today that is 8 stationed with the D.P.S., and a longtime county employee 9 that is an excellent employee, and it may be -- in my 10 opinion, it's high time that the State starts picking up 11 their own tab. If that were to happen, if the State were to 12 hire their own secretary for the Department of Public Safety 13 in Kerrville, that county employee could come back into the 14 courthouse system. And I worked with her many years ago 15 here in the courthouse, and she's a super excellent 16 employee, very knowledgeable in many, many things, and just 17 a -- just an option. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It is an option. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think my -- to answer 20 your first part of your question, I think we should look 21 within first. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, that's fine. I 23 agree. I agree with that. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You know, but -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We need to stay in our 9-7-05 48 1 family if we can. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, there's less 3 risk hiring somebody you know. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: As opposed to 6 someone that looks good on paper. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just a final comment I'd 8 like to make, mainly for the benefit of the public and the 9 press, is that the long-term reason why this is -- why we're 10 in the situation we're in, there's two main answers. One is 11 unfunded mandates coming from Austin. And to make it very 12 clear, there's another one this year related to indigent 13 defense that we are going to have to fund, and it's built 14 into the budget. Tommy made the comment earlier that our 15 indigent health care has risen 45 percent in recent years. 16 Our legal defense goes up every year, indigent -- our 17 current indigent defense goes up, and there's countless 18 other ones. So, you know, if people are upset, call Harvey 19 Hilderbran and call Troy Fraser and call the governor, 20 lieutenant governor; they're the ones that are causing the 21 problem long-term. The other one is, as Commissioner 22 Baldwin brought up this morning, the Juvenile Detention 23 Facility. We got handed a real mess this year, and that 24 cost us a million dollars. And we, I think, have a plan 25 that I feel is going to stop the bleeding as -- or anywhere 9-7-05 49 1 near as bad as it is. It's still going to run at a deficit 2 of -- I don't know till it happens, but somewhere around 3 $200,000 a year out there. But I think there's -- you know, 4 all things considered, that's the best option for the future 5 of the facility. But I just want to make it real clear, 6 this is -- you know, it's been coming a couple years because 7 of the unfunded mandates out of Austin, and it has caught up 8 with us in a year when we had an unexpected major 9 expenditure. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hear, hear. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the name of 12 the game. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else to be offered in 14 connection with the second agenda item? Are we in a 15 position, gentlemen, to -- without having the benefit of 16 these numbers, to consider Item 3? Or is it necessary that 17 we again recess? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Before we go there, 19 Judge, I really need -- I think the Court needs to talk to 20 Ms. Nemec about what we're considering with respect to her 21 department and the transfer of responsibilities to 22 Commissioners Court. What does that entail? What is on her 23 mind? I think we need to know more about that. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I -- my 25 recommendation on that would be to let Ms. Mitchell and 9-7-05 50 1 Ms. Nemec get together and see what -- Ms. Mitchell 2 understands from her previous positions, you know, a lot of 3 that work that we want to get transferred up here, and see 4 how that works, and if it can -- you know, I think it -- the 5 idea -- my idea in moving this is to help Ms. Nemec's office 6 where her chief deputy's working way too many hours right 7 now, and reducing some of that, but -- and get it up here, 8 and hopefully as a half-staff reduction, this will work and 9 it's not too much to get up here. But I -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's my point. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd rather have them 12 talking, 'cause they know more about the details than I do. 13 Personally, I'd rather get a recommendation -- feedback from 14 both of them, you know, today or tomorrow, at some point. 15 MS. NEMEC: So, what you're wanting me to do 16 is take my chief deputy position, and all her duties except 17 payroll go to Commissioners Court? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I want you and 19 Ms. Mitchell to visit about -- I think there's -- and maybe 20 there's a way to -- to split it differently. 21 MS. NEMEC: That would be the only way that 22 we could do the revenues and accounts payable without a 23 part-timer is if -- if she did nothing but payroll. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I think where 25 we're coming from, Ms. Nemec, is detailing exactly what the 9-7-05 51 1 personnel function's all about, and determining whether or 2 not this particular move makes sense or is 3 counterproductive. We need to know that. We need to know 4 what the added burden would be in Commissioners Court, 5 whether or not Ms. Mitchell can handle any or all of that or 6 part of that, and whether or not that fits with the -- with 7 the idea of adding one more person to Commissioners Court 8 and what that job would entail. I think we have to flesh 9 out those details. 10 MS. NEMEC: So you'll be adding a full-time 11 position to Commissioners Court? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Which is picking up some 13 of your function and some of the maintenance function. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're talking about 15 billing -- I mean the booking also coming into that 16 position. We just need to itemize it and take a good, hard 17 look at it, if it makes sense. 18 MS. NEMEC: It would make more sense to me to 19 hire a part-timer in Commissioners Court and keep my office 20 like it is than to move all the functions. But, you know, 21 whatever the Court desires. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, we're going to -- 23 our plan is to reduce the staff by half. 24 MS. NEMEC: But you're reducing a part-time 25 employee in my office -- 9-7-05 52 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And a part-time 2 position -- 3 MS. NEMEC: -- and adding a full-time 4 employee in the Commissioners office with benefits. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But there's functions 6 also in Maintenance, a reduction over there, and we're 7 looking at that because of additional juvenile facility, but 8 see if that would work. We're moving multiple functions up 9 to Commissioners Court, and if they don't work, the other 10 option is to leave your office more as it is and put a 11 part-time person up in Commissioners Court. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And Commissioner 13 Baldwin brought in a pretty good suggestion in terms of 14 transferring of an existing employee from one set of 15 responsibilities to -- back into the court. I think that's 16 a plan that really makes some sense. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, the feedback that 18 I'm getting is that your -- you need part-time work and you 19 need -- and your chief deputy's working way too much. 20 And -- well, we're fixing that problem as well. You said 21 you have a problem there. We're moving that work up here 22 with the personnel to do it. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What does this do for 24 their Odyssey program? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's the question? 9-7-05 53 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The Odyssey program is on 2 to buy. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Is on? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, based on what 5 the Auditor told us. 6 MS. NEMEC: And so is the cost-of-living? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, 3.2 percent. I'd 8 like the new numbered run with the cost-of-living, 9 3.2 percent. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would too. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there anything additional 12 that we need to do today, gentlemen? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Only question I have is 14 to the Tax Assessor on setting the tax rate. 15 MS. RECTOR: Tomorrow is the absolute 16 deadline. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For what? 19 MS. RECTOR: We need to get -- I have to have 20 the first quarter-page notice published on Monday. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 22 MS. RECTOR: Two notices that have to be 23 published; two public hearings and two notices, so that's 24 why I gave a little bit of leeway from yesterday through 25 Thursday to try to hope that we could get this all wrapped 9-7-05 54 1 up so that I could get the notice prepared, get it to the 2 newspaper for them to publish on Monday. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: When you say 4 "deadline," you're talking about just reservation of space, 5 or actually -- 6 MS. RECTOR: No, the space is reserved for 7 Monday's paper. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 9 MS. RECTOR: But I have to have that time to 10 prepare the notice after y'all take your record vote and 11 discuss your proposed tax rate, which y'all are obviously 12 not there yet. So, tomorrow, hopefully that will happen so 13 that I can get the ad done and get it to the paper by Friday 14 for them to put it into Monday's paper. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd recommend -- 16 MS. RECTOR: It has to be published on -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I recommend we recess 18 this meeting and readjourn at 9 o'clock tomorrow morning. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Can you do that? 20 MR. EMERSON: You can't keep carrying 21 meetings day after day. You can go one day; you can't go 22 two. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can't go two. Then I 24 recommend we post an emergency meeting for tomorrow. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: We can't do it. 9-7-05 55 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Only choice we got. I 2 think it qualifies; you have to have a tax rate. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There's still a 4 couple components that we haven't -- that involve us with 5 the City we haven't talked about -- or have we? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we're at a point 7 that we're going to have to set a tax rate with some 8 unknowns. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What do we need? 10 Tommy's updated numbers? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. Based on all 12 this that we did today. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't -- are you 14 going to let us do an emergency meeting tomorrow? 15 MR. EMERSON: I think you're leaving 16 yourselves open to have the order be challenged. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's come back in 18 here tonight. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Emergency meeting? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not an emergency 23 meeting; just this is still open, today's agenda -- 24 yesterday's agenda. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have until -- 9-7-05 56 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Until midnight tonight 2 on this agenda? 3 MR. EMERSON: You're good for today. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Today would be through 5 midnight tonight? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's fine. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What's the earliest 8 time we could get Tommy's numbers? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a good 10 question. 11 MS. MITCHELL: I'll find out. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Boy, he conveniently 13 had a doctor's appointment, didn't he? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He planned that. 15 MS. PIEPER: Why can't Mindy run the numbers? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pardon? 17 MS. PIEPER: Mindy. Can she run the numbers? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: No, he'll be back. What do 19 you want to shoot for? 3:00? 4 o'clock this afternoon? 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Commissioner Letz, 21 do you have an idea what -- after running the numbers, 22 what it's going to look like? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I really don't. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't either. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We made a lot of changes. 9-7-05 57 1 I mean, I suspect we're still going to have the reserve 2 level below 20 percent, 'cause, I mean, we have to add what 3 was not in the last run. We have a -- a ballpark number of, 4 you know 200,000, 250,000 deficit at the juvenile facility 5 which is not in there, and we have a $235,000 increase for 6 the COLA, so we're at 450,000 we're adding in, and I don't 7 think we've reduced $450,000 worth of personnel, so I would 8 say that we're probably still looking at a tax increase. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think we got pretty 10 close to 400,000. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Of course, I need to 12 see the numbers, but my preference would be to go back in 13 and do some more cutting rather than raise taxes. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think that some 15 of the cuts that we have outlined are questionable at this 16 point. There's a couple -- there's maybe two spots that may 17 need to be added back in to be able to function with 18 maintenance due to the juvenile facility maintenance issue, 19 and pending the Treasurer's office discussion. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Commissioner, I agree 21 with you that raising taxes is a bad thing to do. This 22 Commissioners Court -- or Kerr County Commissioners Court 23 has done that very, very rarely. I think three years ago we 24 bumped it some, but prior to that it was 10 or 12 years or 25 something like that, that it -- 9-7-05 58 1 MS. RECTOR: It was seven. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Seven years, thank 3 you -- that it had been touched. And although I don't like 4 tax increases either, sometimes they're a necessity. And 5 our tax rate is so low compared to the other entities around 6 here. I -- another thing. These entities that are lowering 7 their tax rate, I mean, that looks good and that's cute, but 8 I've been through that one time, and that can catch you into 9 a major bad storm. And that is, things are running pretty 10 good right now for them and they've lowered their tax rate. 11 Who knows in two years what's going to happen? And one time 12 when I was on the Hunt School Board, we did exactly that and 13 things got bad. We not only had to bump it up to where it 14 was, but we had to go way above that to catch up what we had 15 lost in those few years, and it was ugly. And so I never 16 recommend lowering the tax rate, although it looks good and 17 it's comfortable. But -- 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I also think, 19 though, Commissioner, about the -- the opportunities to 20 reduce costs that we've missed. First one that comes to 21 mind is the $400,000 that us and the City are paying to make 22 up the deficit in EMS. That was unnecessary. We could have 23 saved the two sets of taxpayers $400,000 by just adjusting 24 the prices. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree 100 percent. 9-7-05 59 1 (Discussion off the record.) 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's the verdict? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 3:30 this afternoon. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll be here. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I have to be. I 6 can't afford to drive home. (Laughter.) 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Would you rather we go to 8 4:00 to make sure it's ready? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Let's go to 4:00. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Have we got anything more that 12 we can -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: -- thrash out today? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What time Thursday do 16 we want to set the tax rate? Oh, sorry. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're setting it today. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Today. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Excuse me. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: As soon as we get the 21 new numbers. 22 MS. RECTOR: When you say "set the tax rate," 23 all you're doing is discussing the proposed rate; you're not 24 actually setting the rate. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. But it's our -- 9-7-05 60 1 MS. RECTOR: And that is always subject to 2 change once you do -- I publish a proposed rate. That does 3 not set that rate in concrete like it does for some of the 4 other taxing jurisdictions. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, we could do our 6 best guess this afternoon? 7 MS. RECTOR: Best guess this afternoon, as 8 long as you're pretty close to where you think you want to 9 be. 'Cause we've got to do the first public hearing, I have 10 to publish a second quarter-page ad, and then the second 11 public hearing before you can adopt the rate, so there's 12 still some time between there to make some adjustments as 13 needed. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is today the voice 15 vote? 16 MS. RECTOR: Yes. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Isn't that crazy? Do 18 a voice vote on adopting it as well? 19 MS. RECTOR: On the proposed. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 21 MS. RECTOR: We take a record vote on the 22 proposed rate. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 24 MS. RECTOR: Proposed is not necessarily what 25 you adopt; it's what you're proposing to adopt. 9-7-05 61 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is just so 2 ridiculous, that -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is a record 4 vote? 5 MS. RECTOR: It's a record vote. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is a record 7 vote. 8 MS. RECTOR: Yes. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: On something that may 10 or may not happen. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Before we even adopt 12 the budget. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 14 MS. RECTOR: Mm-hmm. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Then, when you get 16 down to really adopting the tax rate, it's just a vote. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. See y'all at 18 4 o'clock. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, we will be in recess 20 until 4 o'clock this afternoon. 21 (Recess taken from 12:06 p.m. to 4:00 p.m.) 22 - - - - - - - - - - 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to 24 order. We were in recess until 4 o'clock this afternoon, 25 September 7th, '05, and it's a bit past that now. The 9-7-05 62 1 Auditor was kind enough to rework some numbers to 2 incorporate some of the things we've been doing, and I think 3 everybody has a new summary sheet. Any questions of the 4 Auditor about what's on the summary sheet or how that was 5 compiled? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have a -- a question on 7 the juvenile facility. Can you walk me through that a 8 little bit, Tommy? 9 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, let's see. I wasn't 10 sure what -- which one -- which one to use. I used the 11 48-bed with 80 percent capacity. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, okay. It's right. 13 I looked at it. You know, I thought there was a -- 14 something left off, but I think it's correct. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: Basically, what I did, the -- 16 I plugged in the deficit, the 288,846, into the tax revenue 17 line item, so that -- that made it a balanced budget. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess that's my 19 question. Why would you put it there and not take it off of 20 the estimated balance at the end of the year? Why wouldn't 21 you use that -- show that as an estimated tax revenue? I 22 don't understand why it's in that column, why the deficit. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, because it takes that 24 much tax to -- to offset the expenditures. The tax plus 25 the -- the -- 9-7-05 63 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Revenue. 2 MR. TOMLINSON: -- revenues. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Those two add -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So that's how you make it 5 balance? 6 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Tommy? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: When you look at 10 calculating reserves, the desire for 25 percent, is it this 11 total number up here or the bottom total? 12 MR. TOMLINSON: That's what I'm using, is the 13 top -- the 3,473,830. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, we're at 15 20.5 percent. 16 MR. TOMLINSON: Right. The -- the Road and 17 Bridge stands on its own, since that's a separate tax. And 18 then the bottom third of the page, those are special revenue 19 funds. They're not -- you know, they're not subject to 20 being used by -- by the other funds, so they stand on their 21 own also. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: In Road and Bridge, their 23 reserves, though, are decreasing 220,000. 24 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, no. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Including -- total, I 9-7-05 64 1 mean. 2 MR. TOMLINSON: Oh, total. But -- but part 3 of that is the Schreiner Road Trust. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, because we're using 5 the Schreiner Road Trust for part of it, so the reserves are 6 actually going down 115,000 or so. 7 MR. TOMLINSON: Right. Now, this does -- 8 this tax number does assume a 2-cent increase. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, this assumes a 2-cent 10 increase? 11 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pardon? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: That's 400 -- 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Estimated revenues 17 include a 2-cent increase? 18 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. That -- when I -- the 19 last thing I heard was that when I left. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, if we got rid of the 21 2-cent increase, that's -- 22 MR. TOMLINSON: That's $410,000. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: $410,000. So, we're 24 actually worse off than we were this morning. 25 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes, we are. 9-7-05 65 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How could that be? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Because we added in the 3 juvenile facility and we added in the COLA, which are two 4 big numbers. 5 MR. TOMLINSON: Two big numbers. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So -- but without 7 the tax increase, our spending exceeds revenues by somewhere 8 around $800,000. 9 MR. TOMLINSON: That's correct. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And with it, our 11 spending exceeds revenue by somewhere around $400,000. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: That's right. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, a big chunk is 14 up there in Indigent Health, too. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well -- 17 MR. TOMLINSON: And that -- I made an 18 assumption on -- under the -- for the airport. I used the 19 same number as last -- as last year, because I didn't -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What was last year's 21 number? 22 MR. TOMLINSON: 173. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, that's too high. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, it's too low. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 173? I don't have it 9-7-05 66 1 with me. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's two -- 3 MR. TOMLINSON: I -- when I did this, I 4 didn't know -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 6 MR. TOMLINSON: -- what that was. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll find it. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You plugged in the number 9 that we gave you, didn't you, in here at one point? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: I had it marked. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: See the Tab 25? This 12 shows 173 here. That's not right. Bill, do you have that 13 with you? My airports file's in my -- 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm looking for it. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- at my house. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let me go ahead and 17 get my airport file. 18 (Commissioner Williams left the courtroom.) 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That number, I believe -- 20 I want to say it's 240 or something like that, quite a bit 21 higher than last year, because it's kicking off -- 22 JUDGE TINLEY: The only number I've seen, and 23 I've got a question mark here on Page 61 of the latest run, 24 was the 173,5. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maybe that's it, but I 9-7-05 67 1 thought it was higher. That was -- the 173,5 was last 2 year's. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: That was last year. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's higher this year. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 6 MR. TOMLINSON: I would make -- I 7 suggested -- I don't know if -- I don't -- we have a sizable 8 balance in the road districts account. If we could -- 9 (Commissioner Williams returned.) 10 MR. TOMLINSON: If there's any -- anything 11 that Road and Bridge has planned that would fit that -- that 12 fund, I don't -- I think there's some stipulations somewhere 13 historically that prevent us from using some of that -- the 14 road district's money for certain things, but I don't -- I 15 know Leonard knows that. But I -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The Ingram Lake Road 17 District? That -- 18 MR. TOMLINSON: No. No, it's the road 19 districts. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, I see. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: Those are -- those are old 22 road districts. That's been -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 15 years. 24 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. I don't -- I don't 25 know if we can spend -- or use those funds outside of those 9-7-05 68 1 road districts or not. I don't know if we can or not. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- do you have a 3 calculator, Dave? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What did you put in 5 for the airport? 6 MR. TOMLINSON: 173 and change. I don't 7 remember. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: 173,5. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The number -- this is 10 what I remember, the 289,000. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the match 12 grant and the -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's the match grant, 14 the management contract, and then the owner participation. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It'll be slightly less 17 than that, I believe, after Airport Board meets again. I 18 think you plug in 270 -- 275. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Total? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, that's total -- 21 that's each. That's not the total; that's each the City and 22 County. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The biggest piece is 24 the match grant for the work that's going on out there. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Add another 105,000, 110,000. 9-7-05 69 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, add a hundred -- 2 I'd say 100,000. 270, 110,000. Okay, thanks. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: First, before I go on, I 5 presume everyone -- I know I did -- received an e-mail from 6 the District Clerk during break, and I have a bit of a 7 problem with it. And, Linda, I don't know where you came up 8 with this stuff. You're basically alleging, because I asked 9 you last week about passports and whether you wanted to 10 transfer that somewhere else, that that's why you're on the 11 chopping block. That's the most absurd thing I've ever 12 heard of. 13 MS. UECKER: I was just asking why. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, you know, you 15 say -- do you want me to read the thing into the record? 16 It's public record. You said, How in the heck am I on the 17 chopping block? And you allege that it was because the 18 Judge asked you -- which I had no idea that he was asking 19 you about passports, and that I independently -- the Judge 20 asked you after that about passports. The reason I asked 21 you about passports is that passports were done down here, 22 as you're quite aware, for a long time. The former 23 administrative assistant refused to do it, and this court 24 looked for someone to do it, and you agreed and have done it 25 since then, and have done a good job with it. I asked you 9-7-05 70 1 merely if we were adding a -- looking at this new position 2 down here, if it made sense to help your department by 3 moving it down here. You said no, and I said okay, that's 4 fine. 5 MS. UECKER: No, I -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It was not -- 7 MS. UECKER: I didn't say no. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You actually said that 9 you would work with me. But for you to say here that I 10 wanted to do that to find this person something to do is not 11 correct. 12 MS. UECKER: That's what you said. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I said if there -- if we 14 could make it work, yes. If we can improve efficiencies 15 like I think we are doing and reducing county-wide -- as I 16 told you in the e-mail, I look at county-wide staffing 17 counts. If we were able to do that in creating this or 18 moving some employees around in this position, I'm in favor 19 of doing it, and you said you agreed. So, I just want -- I 20 mean, I don't -- I think that's wrong, what you said in 21 here, and that's not why you're on the chopping block. 22 Every department is, quote, on the chopping block, because 23 we have a serious problem this year. I am -- 24 MS. UECKER: No, I have to defend my office, 25 the same as Paula did, the same as Jannett did, the same as 9-7-05 71 1 anybody. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I understand. 3 MS. UECKER: But when my name came up this 4 morning, I have a right to that, Jonathan. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't have a problem at 6 all with you defending and saying no, there's absolutely no 7 way you can do it, but don't say it's because I asked you 8 one day if you wanted to move passports down here. That's 9 -- they're two totally separate issues. You made that -- 10 MS. UECKER: That's what it appeared to be to 11 me. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I told you in the e-mail 13 that's not true, that was not the case, and you sent me an 14 e-mail about that. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Your after-the-fact perception 16 that I inquired on two different occasions how your passport 17 volume was holding, albeit they may have been one day and 18 then two days later, which literally, true, I guess would be 19 every other day, that may have been your perception. 20 MS. UECKER: Judge, I've seen you. You've 21 asked me several times. And it's fine; you have a right to 22 do that. But, you know, I see now maybe why that you were 23 doing that. I don't know. I wondered at the time how come 24 you're so curious about passports. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: 'Cause you made a big deal 9-7-05 72 1 about it, so I'm curious about it. 2 MS. UECKER: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I would say that 4 that was not why I -- I mean, I did not think we were going 5 to be in the position we are. I knew we were going to have 6 a tight budget. I had no idea until last week how bad it 7 was. You know, I don't think Jannett volunteered to give up 8 a position. I don't think Road and Bridge volunteered. I 9 don't think anyone pretty much has volunteered. There may 10 be some others. And I think every department -- I mean, I 11 don't think Barbara's real happy with my proposal either. I 12 mean, I'm pretty much going to every department and making 13 people not real happy with me, but my intent is to -- is for 14 the taxpayers of this county and to get us on a fiscally 15 responsible budget, and that is going to include, in my 16 opinion, raising taxes. But I'm not about to raise taxes to 17 cover this full amount. I think every department needs to 18 tighten their belt, and it's unfortunate. 19 MS. UECKER: Have I not done that, Jonathan? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You have. I think every 21 department's done it. I'm just saying we may have to do 22 more. Anyway, I don't want to get -- your e-mail touched a 23 nerve with me, 'cause that was not the reason that I asked 24 you about passports. I did not intend -- 25 MS. UECKER: Well, it was not my intention to 9-7-05 73 1 touch your nerve. I just felt like I had a right to defend 2 my position as well. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, and you do. And I 4 would expect you to, you know, support your staff, and also 5 at the same time give us a -- you know, if there's any way 6 you can, if you can cut staff, let us know. 7 MS. UECKER: And I will. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mr. Trolinger, a while 9 back, somehow connected with the Sheriff's budget and laptop 10 computers and -- and things of that nature, there was a 11 proposal in there to put laptops in deputies' cars with 12 wireless things so that they can do their reports and 13 improve efficiency. 14 MR. TROLINGER: Correct. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the cost of that 16 if we add 15 laptop computers? 17 MR. TROLINGER: First year, to start the 18 project, was $21,000 initial cost. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You want only 15 20 computers. We're not putting one in each car? 21 MR. TROLINGER: Correct. That was the 22 minimum starting off, with -- with this in mind. Each one 23 of those units has a recurring cost per month of $55 for 24 that wireless service. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, it's 21,000 -- 9-7-05 74 1 MR. TROLINGER: That includes that for the 2 first year. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: For the first year. Then 4 after that, we're at 55 times 15 times 12. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 9,900 -- $10,000. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: $10,000. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: $31,000. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would recommend another 9 cut; that we reduce the Sheriff's deputies by four positions 10 and add in the technology to make that department more 11 efficient. 12 MR. TROLINGER: And you understand, in my 13 report, that that was simply to reduce the cost of fuel 14 driving from -- for instance, all the way from out west all 15 the way across town to file a report. That was the 16 intention. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I know. I understand. 18 MR. TROLINGER: Not that it frees anybody up, 19 but it keeps an additional deputy in place in Hunt instead 20 of driving across town and being at the Sheriff's Office and 21 being available from that location. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I understand that, but I 23 also understand -- I think my opinion, in visiting with the 24 Sheriff, is that also improves their ability to get work 25 done in the field by getting reports done while they're in 9-7-05 75 1 the field, and I think that's improved efficiency, and I 2 think it has made -- can happen better, as I understand it, 3 with Odyssey, because of some of the benefits of Odyssey. 4 Sheriff, you don't have to yell at me; I know you're mad. 5 But, you know, I just think that, you know, there's a spot 6 there. The -- I think every department, you know, needs to 7 really look at some reductions. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Now, what did you say 9 about reducing the Sheriff's -- 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He loses four positions. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Four on top of what 12 we already talked about? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For a total of seven? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. And these are going 16 to be in the -- I presume in the patrol deputy area, but 17 that's up to him. And then the technology cost would get 18 added back in. Okay, Sheriff, now you can yell. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Thank you. 20 MR. TROLINGER: Do you need my numbers? 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, I don't need your 22 numbers. You know I'm against it, okay. What it will do 23 is, we currently have, if everybody's on duty and nobody's 24 off nobody's on vacation, six deputies per shift. That's 25 six deputies to cover 1,100 square miles. This will cut 9-7-05 76 1 that down to five per shift. That's going to be one off 2 every shift, in essence. Right now I have a mandate and a 3 mandatory deal; we never go less than four per shift, and I 4 will have to lower that back to where we were six, eight 5 years ago, to three per shift. So -- because the time off, 6 vacations, sick, training. I am totally in disagreement 7 that three patrol deputies working per shift for a county of 8 1,100 square miles is not adequate. I think it's wrong. I 9 think it jeopardizes the safety of our officers. Can it be 10 done? Yes, if that's what y'all are -- are requesting. I 11 would need to add an amount to overtime for the deputies, a 12 substantial amount. In trying to look at this, I'd say at 13 least 10,000 in addition to what we're at right now, and at 14 least probably 20,000 into the jail overtime. 15 The jail overtime -- and the way this affects 16 it is jail overtime is 22 percent over budget as we speak. 17 A lot of that is because we've had several inmates in the 18 hospital, and after we did the organized crime, we've had 19 some that had to go through surgeries, and we had been using 20 deputies to fill that position along with jailers. I will 21 never be able to use deputies to fill those positions. A 22 lot of the court days, we're using deputies watching them 23 and patrol, as you know, to come over and help with jailers 24 and those. I will have to use overtime in the jail to be 25 able to make it work. And, in fact, I'm already 22 percent 9-7-05 77 1 down. It's going to require a lot more, so I would 2 recommend that you at least add probably 20,000 to the jail 3 overtime and 10,000 to the deputies' overtime to make this 4 work. 5 Now, a personal point, gentlemen -- and I 6 don't intend on starting anything. I don't intend on -- on 7 really hurting Ms. Harris' deal or what y'all decided in 8 executive session or anything else, but I think it's a total 9 disservice to the citizens to cut the law enforcement 10 services that are available right now, as we speak, 'cause 11 I've already given up three positions without cutting law 12 enforcement services to the public. But I think it's wrong, 13 and I can't justify it, in my mind, to cut the law 14 enforcement services to the public back to three officers on 15 duty for 1,100 square miles, and yet pay to bring in 16 juveniles from other counties to house them in our juvenile 17 facility. I don't think that's right. I don't think it 18 makes sense. I also don't think it makes sense that your 19 chief law enforcement officer of the county in y'all's 20 proposed budget is going to be making at least 5,000 less 21 than the administrator for the juvenile facility that runs a 22 48-bed facility and no law enforcement duties. I run a 23 192-bed facility and have 95 employees; I think the 24 responsibility's there. And, true, I don't have the college 25 certificate, but the next Sheriff may have, and I think it 9-7-05 78 1 is totally wrong. 2 I don't know what was discussed in executive 3 session, but the last time that it came up, we were also 4 paying to transport those kids here from other counties. I 5 think we have a duty to the taxpayers of this county to take 6 care of ourselves and take care of this county. And with 7 some of the figures that I did know before executive 8 session, before some of the cuts, that budget to run that 9 facility is going to be -- and I'm guessing, 'cause I 10 haven't seen what you cut, but I'm guessing it's going to be 11 over a million dollars a year to run that facility in all. 12 You're trying to count some revenues in that, and my 13 understanding, it was going to be about 225,000 or so if 14 that facility were shut down and we transported our own kids 15 to other facilities. To me, that's $800,000 right there. 16 That would take care of a lot of these problems without 17 cutting law enforcement to the citizens of this county. And 18 I'm totally in disagreement, but I have to go by what this 19 Court says and what this Court does. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Only comment I'll make, 21 Sheriff, is that the -- the proposed deficit at the Juvenile 22 Detention Facility is 288,000. And that's based on 23 80 percent occupancy, which we're almost at that right now. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm talking about the 25 overall budget impact, not just the deficit. What is the 9-7-05 79 1 budget for that facility, and what is the budget to house 2 kids if we did not have that facility at this point? What 3 would it be to house kids out of county? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: More than 288. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What would it be? I 6 mean, what are we looking at? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You can't look at it 8 that way. You have to look at what the total revenue is and 9 what the total expenses are, same way with your jail. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I won't rehash that, but 11 when you're saying 83 to 85 for most kids, 115 for others, 12 but I still have that it costs 120 a day, you know, in 13 different ones, I can't get my figures around that. But I 14 won't go there. What I'm saying, gentlemen, is I feel that 15 these decisions are going to hurt law enforcement in this 16 county to supplement other counties of bringing kids here, 17 and I don't think that's right. Now, all the other parts -- 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Hold it, Sheriff. 19 The -- we're through with the Juvenile Detention Facility 20 discussions. It came down to two choices, only two. Wasn't 21 any other options. 48 beds and do the best you can, or shut 22 the facility down and not have a place to take our 23 preadjudicated children. And all the advice we got was the 24 best -- in the best interests of the community is to keep 25 the facility, so we've made that decision. I don't like the 9-7-05 80 1 salary inequities either, and we've had salary inequities 2 internally and compared to Kerrville and compared to other 3 jobs in the local labor market, so it's a reality. It's a 4 fact of life. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm not saying it's not. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We can't solve it -- 7 I don't like it, but we can't solve it overnight. But we've 8 made some progress, and it's not as bad as it used to be. 9 But it's -- but it's not going to be perfect. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sheriff, with all due 11 respect, you have a lot more than just the road warriors, 12 and if you believe that some of your staff needs to be 13 repositioned on the road, you have every right and 14 prerogative to do that. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- I mean, I 16 visited with the Sheriff during the break, and he knew what 17 I was going to propose, and -- 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And he knew what my 19 response was. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- I knew what his 21 response was, which is fine. And I -- you know, I think 22 it's -- I hope we can get in a position next budget year or 23 future budget years to restore these and some of the other 24 spots we're cutting. I think that some of them we may never 25 need to restore. Some of them, I think we do. Law 9-7-05 81 1 enforcement is one that I'm -- you know, it was at the very 2 end of my list, and I will -- and I told the Sheriff I 3 wanted to look at what the new report was, and if it was 4 improved enough, you know, I would modify what I was 5 proposing. But it didn't improve enough, and I think my 6 responsibility is to the taxpayers and to get a budget that 7 I think is -- is viable, and I've done that, and -- or I'm 8 making recommendations to do that. And I supported making 9 the technology improvements in that department, and I also 10 -- I will say just a comment. This isn't to the Sheriff; 11 this is to every department that has lost personnel today. 12 Now, I don't know if we're going to have to 13 reduce some more or not. I think this is probably -- this 14 will get us through. But if there are a few further 15 reductions, you know, I have noted that the -- and I know 16 which departments were not cut this year, and I know some of 17 the reasons why that is, and -- you know, probably just 18 because of some executive sessions and other issues that 19 we've had. But if there are other cuts in future years, 20 they're coming out of the departments that have not been cut 21 before they come out of any that has been cut this year, in 22 my opinion. And that's just -- you know, and those 23 departments know where they, you know, just got it through 24 this year without getting any cuts. Any further cuts, 25 rather. My view is -- and that's -- unless you have 9-7-05 82 1 anything else -- 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- on that topic, my 4 quick calculations show that that's about $150,000 5 additional to the black, so to speak, when you get four 6 deputies and then you add back in the overtime, the 7 computers, and so I just put $50,000 as a deputy, if you 8 include the cars and fuel and all that other stuff that goes 9 in with the benefits. 10 MR. TROLINGER: I wanted to advise on you 11 that number that I gave you. That $21,000 was for 10 units. 12 For 15 units, it is $32,250. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Now, can I ask a 14 question? Does that include the laptop itself and the 15 mounts in the car? 16 MR. TROLINGER: Yes. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Because the mounts are 18 over a thousand for -- and will it include being able to 19 transfer those units from car to car? Because that's what 20 will have to be done to cover it. Computer mounts that 21 swing out in the car for safety are over a thousand. 22 MR. TROLINGER: Right. And it did not -- it 23 did not cover transferring it between vehicles. It was for 24 patrol sergeants for the C.I.D., for the -- for basically 25 the shift supervisors to have it in their vehicle, not to 9-7-05 83 1 move from one vehicle to another. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can they be set up 4 that way? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can it be set to move 6 from vehicle to vehicle? 7 MR. TROLINGER: They can, but the Sheriff's 8 numbers were right on. Each vehicle has to be mount -- 9 provided with that mounting bracket and accessories. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that a more 11 efficient way to do it? 12 MR. TROLINGER: No. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That would be -- if 14 you're cutting deputies, to be honest, that would be the 15 only way that the deputies can -- I can try and cover some 16 of the makeup on the road, because that way they can 17 actually do their reports and look up their stuff while 18 they're on the road, all right? You know, because we 19 already work 12-our shifts; there is no overlapping shift. 20 I don't have the employees to work an 8-hour shift as it is. 21 So, without an overlapping shift, you don't have ones that 22 can come in off the road, sit down, do all their reports 23 from that day, and then other ones, you know, are still on 24 the road. And the only way, when you cut it down to this -- 25 and with three, that means I may end up with one officer on 9-7-05 84 1 the road if we can't do something to be able to change that 2 around to give them time. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand. I'm 4 not debating that. I just want to know, to equip them the 5 way it would maximize the benefit to the Sheriff, it amounts 6 to nothing more than a mounting bracket and a wireless 7 connection; is that correct? 8 MR. TROLINGER: And the accessories -- 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In each car. 10 MR. TROLINGER: -- and components. And I 11 estimate -- I don't have the exact figure -- $86,000 to 12 implement that level of where each patrol car got the 13 equipment, the laptop can be moved from one vehicle to 14 another. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What we're talking 16 about, to be sure, is 15 laptops. 17 MR. TROLINGER: Correct. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: 15 car mounts. Okay? 19 No, it would be 20 car mounts, 15 laptops, so that you can 20 be able to rotate those computers around. Because it would 21 not put any in C.I.D. It wouldn't put them in warrants. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 20 wireless 23 connections. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah, the wireless 25 connections are $55 a month per unit, but that's 15 units. 9-7-05 85 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why wouldn't it be -- 2 MR. TROLINGER: I estimated 40 vehicles, so 3 it's more on the range of $50,000 to $55,000. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But why wouldn't it be on 5 the wireless connections, one per computer? 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It is. 7 MR. TROLINGER: It is. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: 15 computers at $55 a 9 month. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But you got to equip 11 the car. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, yeah, the brackets 13 are in every car, but the rest of it's on the laptop, isn't 14 it? 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's as far as I know. 16 MR. TROLINGER: It is. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The brackets are over -- 18 last I -- over somewhere around a thousand. I can't 19 remember. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Clearly, you have to have 21 the brackets in every car. Can you get by with 12 22 computers? 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Let's do 12 computers and 25 the brackets in every car. 9-7-05 86 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, the dial-up 2 connection is in the computer? 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not sure -- you know, 6 what's that number, John? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: 2,100 a pop. But that 8 includes the -- not a good bracket, but a fixed bracket, I 9 think, isn't it? 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They're all -- and I'm 11 ballpark. I don't remember. Do you remember? They were -- 12 they were somewhere around that. I'd have to go call to 13 make sure, but somewhere around a thousand per car. 14 MR. TROLINGER: I'm just giving you an 15 estimate right now, but -- but for 15 units, to -- I'm 16 sorry, for 12 PCs and 20 mounts, it's still going to be over 17 -- over $35,000, but I'll have to give you exact numbers in 18 a sit-down. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Put $40,000 in there? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Don't go away; I want 21 to ask you something after we're finished with this 22 particular discussion. 23 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: As it pertains to 25 software and the Juvenile Detention Center. 9-7-05 87 1 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What I don't 3 understand is, if you're just going to put them in 4 supervisors' cars -- 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, that was his 6 original figures. This 12 in 20 cars, since we cut patrol 7 officers, would put them in all the officers' cars that are 8 on duty at one time, and the ones coming on duty. And then 9 it would put it -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just putting them in 11 the supervisors' cars didn't make any sense. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Supervisors' cars won't 13 help me in this situation. 14 MS. UECKER: Didn't I read somewhere in one 15 of the county magazines about some grants available for that 16 type of technology? 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's very possible. 18 MS. UECKER: It's been some time ago, but I 19 did see it somewhere. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If we can go through a 21 grant, that's great. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So much the better. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: At this point, I'd rather 24 budget for it, but -- and then pursue grants. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The grant I'm pursuing 9-7-05 88 1 right now and would like to continue to pursue, that's going 2 to be the courthouse security. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But you might check and 4 see if there are just some other grants available there. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Remember, we did talk 6 about the -- the radio repair budget having to go up by 7 3,000. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So that is a -- so, 9 between the deputies and the Sheriff, we've paid for the 10 airport. I mean, the Sheriff's -- we've gained by $50,000 11 total. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I got to tell you, I'm 13 extremely uncomfortable with reducing police protection to 14 our citizens so that we can have an airport or we can have a 15 juvenile detention facility. I mean, I'm sorry, that just 16 doesn't make sense to me. It just flat does not make sense. 17 Police protection is one of those things that we demand; I 18 demand, as a taxpayer. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree. And the only 20 thing I can say on the -- I mean, the juvenile facility, 21 again, I think it's -- the numbers have showed us that we 22 looked at earlier that we -- it costs the county taxpayers 23 less with a 48-bed facility. They lose -- it costs them 24 less than it does if we shut it down. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I know that's 9-7-05 89 1 what they say. I -- I don't believe that, but, you know, 2 history's going to tell us. When we get down the road a 3 little bit, we're going to see that that's not true, but -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And related to the 5 airport, I mean, it's -- I agree that there are some 6 things -- a long-term project out there is kicking -- is 7 funded, and we can, you know, throw away that full project 8 or fund it. And, you know, it's not -- it's an all or 9 nothing type deal. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're throwing away 11 $3 million in capital improvements if we don't fund our 12 10 percent match. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. I mean, and that's 14 just -- you know -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, when it comes to 16 law enforcement and fire service and ambulance service, 17 those, you know, I -- I don't give a damn about your 18 airport. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You know, that's just 21 my opinion, when you compare those two things. I couldn't 22 care less about an airport. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think -- and what I 24 heard from the Sheriff is that he doesn't like giving up the 25 four deputies, certainly, but we will still have law 9-7-05 90 1 enforcement that hopefully will be adequate. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hope so. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Three per shift for 4 1,100 squares miles, y'all decide whether that's going to be 5 adequate. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Say that again? 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Three per shift, if 8 anybody's on vacation or in training, for 1,100 square 9 miles, you decide whether that's adequate. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that -- 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You know what my opinion 12 is. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Going to four per 14 shift or three per shift? 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What we will have -- 16 okay, right now -- right now I have scheduled six per shift. 17 You take the time off -- it's very seldom that somebody gets 18 that, because we don't build up comp time any more. We try 19 and give that time back off so that you don't run up our 20 overtime. Overtime budget in the Sheriff's Office for all 21 95 employees has been $15,000 a year. Compare that to 22 $75,000 the City has; it's a big difference. So, in keeping 23 with that, we -- we make officers take off. Number two, 24 we've got some that have vacation time coming. They're 25 allowed to take that vacation time. That cuts down the 9-7-05 91 1 number, so a large percentage of the time -- and you have 2 other ones that are in training that you have to -- to 3 provide, and so a large percentage of the time we end up 4 with four. And I do have a policy that we are never allowed 5 to work less than four officers per shift. Now, if it looks 6 like it's going below that because of things, we always call 7 in others and do have to pay out that overtime at that time. 8 Doing this, you're cutting my starting point from six to 9 five, which will make it to where I have to set the policy 10 at three, because I cannot keep four on there all the time 11 because of the -- the circumstances, the time off, the sick, 12 whatever. All right. It ends up being three. And if you 13 feel that, at any time, three patrol deputies patrolling 14 1,100 square miles is adequate, then you have to do what you 15 have to do. All right? You know my opinion on whether or 16 not it's adequate. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that -- is that -- 18 at one point, when I used to go riding with y'all -- and 19 everybody embarrassed me so bad, I won't do it any more -- 20 you have -- you have a lieutenant -- or, I'm sorry, 21 lieutenant, corporal, sergeant, officers of some sort -- 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Y'all remember part of 23 the positions we gave up? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- that worked the 25 middle area of the county. Then you had the others working 9-7-05 92 1 the outside of the county. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. What we have, 3 number one, we have no more corporal positions. I gave 4 those up about three years ago. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Whatever, Rusty. 6 Whatever that -- 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I have a sergeant, and 8 what this will be is one sergeant, and possibly two patrol. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, that's what I -- 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We divide the county 11 into three sections; central, east, and west. All right. 12 Each of those patrolmen, you know, work those. With the 13 four mandated on duty at a time, it leaves me either the 14 sergeant, or sometimes he'll work a sector and assign one of 15 his patrolmen to it, but they're called a rover. If the 16 east deputy needs backup, has something else going, or he's 17 stopped a DWI, the roving officer is the one that gives him 18 that backup. He's the one that can head there and help. 19 All right. What you're doing if I go down to three, we have 20 no rover, so when that east guy needs help, either the 21 central one or the west one has to go help him, which leaves 22 the central uncovered. And that's what we're asking -- 23 that's what we're going to do to the citizens. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Now, that would be not 25 all the time. It will be part of the time, correct? 9-7-05 93 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Majority of the time. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Because of the training 3 and the time they're off. It stays -- 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How many patrol 5 deputies do you have? 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I have 24. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And you're talking 8 about going down to 21? 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And you're talking about 10 -- yeah -- no, 20 is what you're talking about. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 20. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Which would be five per 13 shift. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How many inside 15 people do you have? 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I have one civil. I 17 have one transport who is on the road all the time; two 18 warrants and their sergeant, who spend a lot of their time 19 up here in court or serving -- we have currently outstanding 20 about 2,000 outstanding criminal arrest warrants for this 21 county alone. Okay. And then in C.I.D., I have five, 22 supervisor and the evidence tech. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Ten total? Ten? Is 24 that what you're saying? Ten people? 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. They're -- total 9-7-05 94 1 number of -- of certified officers, including myself and the 2 two task force officers right now, is 44 total. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 34? 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: 44. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 44. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's task force, me, 7 chief, and the assistant C.I.D. and the warrants and civil. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So far, I counted up 9 to 30. Where's the other 14? 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I have one -- of course, 11 you have to -- there is one D.A.R.E. officer; that's all she 12 does for the entire -- all the school districts in Kerr 13 County. And I have one work release officer that works the 14 inmates. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just want you to 16 assure me that there'll be a deputy in my neighborhood, 17 permanently, to protect my family. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Ain't going to happen. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Uh-oh. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I have the one training 21 coordinator sergeant, training coordinator that took over, 22 which already merged with the jail training coordinator; he 23 does the entire department, and he fills in on patrol when 24 he can or in court when he can. Because we already 25 eliminated that training coordinator sergeant out of the 9-7-05 95 1 jail. So, sergeants, counting -- I have one, two, three, 2 four, five -- five sergeants. One is a training 3 coordinator, crime prevention, all that, as I just said. 4 So, it's four sergeants, 'cause we have four shifts. 5 Investigators, it's one, two, three, four, five, plus the 6 chief investigator, and one of those five is also the 7 evidence technician officer. Okay. And they are all 8 averaging right now, as of today -- Clay pulled it up and 9 looked -- 27 active cases each that they're each 10 investigating. Warrants, you have the sergeant, which takes 11 a trip -- they hauled five to T.D.C. today. I have one 12 civil officer, one transport officer, and one other warrant 13 and one other warrant, so I have three warrants, counting 14 the sergeant, that actually are trying to serve warrants and 15 hauling inmates. I have Chuck Brecher, the courthouse 16 security officer, is the other one over here that you can 17 add to your list. And then we have the 24 on patrol. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do those warrants 19 have to be served by deputies, or can they be served by 20 constables? 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, the constables -- 22 I'm not counting the warrants that the J.P.'s have, okay. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, I'm just asking a 24 question. The warrants -- 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Warrants can be served 9-7-05 96 1 by any certified peace officer in the state. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: By anybody? 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And that's the way it 4 works. All right. We do serve a lot of warrants on court 5 days and things. Last month -- the month of September -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a good point. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I want to spring 8 loose some men for you here, Sheriff. That's where I'm 9 heading. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I can't tell a constable 11 what he has to do. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We can. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't know statutorily 14 if you can. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We got cars and budgets, 16 though. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We -- I'd love to have 18 the help on serving warrants, I can tell you. Last month 19 alone, the month of August, we served 299 warrants. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How many people did 21 it take to do that? 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I couldn't tell you. 23 Some of those were found by patrol officers on the road. 24 Some of those were found by the warrant officers. Everybody 25 serves warrants. 9-7-05 97 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is it a reasonable 2 approach to think about moving warrants over to the 3 constables and freeing up a deputy from inside -- or from 4 that service? Or two? 'Cause I think you identified three 5 or more. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Three, counting the 7 sergeant. But they also do a lot of the courthouse, you 8 know, stuff with inmates and going and getting -- because a 9 lot of times -- Carroll Schultz is my transport officer. If 10 a person's arrested inside the state of Texas and cannot 11 make bond, we have five days to get him. If he's arrested 12 outside the state of Texas, once the extradition part is 13 over, we have ten days to get him and get him brought back 14 here. We have saved a whole lot of money by Carroll Schultz 15 driving those out-of-state ones and picking them up and 16 bringing them back here, because of airline costs and 17 security issues on airlines or contracting with private 18 companies costs us. If it's a female, I got to send two 19 officers. If it's a female inside the state, I have to send 20 two officers; one needs to be a female. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: All right. That -- he 23 is -- he is on the road every day of the week right now. 24 And then you'll have trips to SAFP, you'll have trips to 25 T.D.C., which draw one of those other officers into that 9-7-05 98 1 position. And we may have two. Sometimes we've had all 2 three of them on the road at one time, because it is a large 3 state and you end up with people arrested all over, 'cause 4 all our warrants go in the state system. And if you don't 5 get them picked up by the deadline, they turn them loose. 6 And if it's an out-of-state one that doesn't get picked up 7 by the deadline, they turn them loose and you are not 8 allowed to arrest them again in that state, period. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What -- Commissioner 10 Williams, I think I would support if we can shift the 11 warrants -- most of the warrants to the constables, then you 12 can, you know, add back on the patrol side one or two. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, yes, you -- you 14 can add it on the patrol side. All right. Number one, one 15 of the warrant officers is also the Crimestoppers 16 Coordinator, handles all the Crimestoppers calls, 'cause all 17 that comes into the county, regardless of what city or 18 whatever, so he has all that. Number two, you have to 19 recall, I have one civil deputy. Okay. We are averaging 20 right now -- because a lot of your big corporations have now 21 done their -- their -- they call it "registered agent" is in 22 this county. When Enron went under, we served over 400 23 civil papers in dealing with Enron because of the registered 24 agents in this county. All the State Hospital papers that 25 have to be served, he serves. We've got overloaded in 9-7-05 99 1 civil, because they have not asked for another civil deputy, 2 so the warrant deputies are also filling in helping with the 3 civil process service, which is extremely important, as 4 anybody will tell you, to make sure those get served, 'cause 5 they're on times. And it's not unusual for a criminal case 6 coming up, you'll have 20, 30 subpoenas for that criminal 7 case, and that gets canceled, and you're still doing it. 8 Civil papers are one of the most important parts of your 9 office, and so it's -- you know, I understand it's not a 10 good situation anywhere in the county. I understand that. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would ask you to 12 take a look at that, see if it's a possibility. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Cutting four patrol 14 officers will -- I'll have to take a look at a lot of things 15 and what it will do. Anyhow, my objections to it, my 16 reasoning for it, I don't agree with it, but that's -- I can 17 understand the position y'all are in. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Before you go off on 19 another topic, Commissioner -- Mr. Trolinger? With respect 20 to the Juvenile Detention Facility, what was the plan for 21 software, and was that something you budgeted or have you 22 already talked to Ms. Harris about that? Have you talked to 23 Mr. Trolinger today? 24 MS. HARRIS: Not today, no, sir. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. What is your 9-7-05 100 1 plan for software that assists them in doing accounts 2 receivable, billing, et cetera? You told us, but it's been 3 so long ago, I've forgotten. 4 MR. TROLINGER: I've had two formal sit-downs 5 with Ms. Harris. The bottom line was that we had originally 6 agreed that she was to budget for -- for software for 7 broadband connectivity to -- to integrate the facility with 8 the county. We were talking at that point about not 9 necessarily the accounting side, but more from the -- the 10 detention facility operation, the commissary, similar to how 11 the jail is operating. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This would not be a 13 part of the Odyssey package? 14 MR. TROLINGER: It is a part of the 15 Odyssey -- and that was previous to discussing Odyssey and 16 integrating the Juvenile Detention Facility operation. The 17 only piece that we need to provide is the broadband 18 connectivity. Software Group has agreed to develop and 19 customize the -- the jail package for the detention 20 facility. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. So, if there 22 was a number put in Juvenile Detention Facility for 23 software, that number does not necessarily have to be 24 utilized? 25 MR. TROLINGER: Does not need to be restored. 9-7-05 101 1 It's the broadband service. We've got two choices. We've 2 got an existing DSL line. Some promises were made that it 3 would be good enough, and I -- I expect that it's not good 4 enough, and I expect that we need to reinsert in the budget 5 $4,400 per year, which is the cost for broadband 6 connectivity. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And this would 8 improve the efficiency of billings for the Juvenile 9 Detention Facility, and would integrate with the accounting 10 software or whatever that we already have in place? 11 MR. TROLINGER: The idea would be that we 12 would want to integrate the accounting, the financial 13 functions. I did not look at that specifically with the 14 Incode package. I would expect that it can be done, but 15 because the facility had such a disparate way of doing 16 business from our Auditor's office, I wanted to -- that was 17 the next step. After we get the Auditor into the new 18 financial package, then we would look at the other 19 departments that are -- 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I want you to look at 21 it, because Ms. Harris advised me that there is a software 22 package for this purpose that's put out by T.J.P.C. Is that 23 correct? 24 MS. HARRIS: That's correct. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: At no charge. 9-7-05 102 1 MR. TROLINGER: Well, it's free with a 2 capital F. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 4 MR. TROLINGER: We would have to purchase 5 hardware. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I want you to look at 7 that and tell us what the capital F is. 8 MR. TROLINGER: Okay. I did. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 10 MR. TROLINGER: The -- the Caseworker -- 11 MS. HARRIS: Mm-hmm. 12 MR. TROLINGER: Caseworker, which is free, 13 which is partially internet connectivity and partially 14 dedicated software on a server and with computers, I 15 estimated the -- the cost for that at $11,000 for the -- 16 just for the hardware to support that free software. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Whereas, if we went 18 with Odyssey, it would be? 19 MR. TROLINGER: Currently, they're offering 20 it at no charge. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 22 MR. TROLINGER: But there are -- there are 23 some pieces to work -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that a lowercase 25 F? 9-7-05 103 1 MR. TROLINGER: That's lowercase, because the 2 broadband is the additional piece that we have to have at 3 $4,400 per year. We currently -- I believe it's about 4 $1,000 per year for DSL. 5 MS. HARRIS: Don't we have more hardware, 6 computers and stuff? 7 MR. TROLINGER: No. That's why we need 8 broadband, in order to have that connection to the hardware 9 we're putting in. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 11 MR. TROLINGER: But there are several issues 12 there, and I wanted to make sure that you all were aware 13 that the broadband is the key piece, that pipe that connects 14 that facility to county courthouse, that lets us integrate. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 16 MR. TROLINGER: You're welcome. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Based on my ciphering -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're not fixing to 19 cut a Commissioner position, are you? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Road and Bridge earlier 21 volunteered to -- I wanted to get rid of a dump truck; they 22 wanted to get rid of a person. I want to get rid of a 23 person and a dump truck. That's $52,000. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Anybody making 25 notes for the Auditor? The Auditor's here. 9-7-05 104 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm making notes. The 2 Judge is writing. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I didn't see Tommy. 4 I see him now. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: How much? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think Miguel is 7 coming to the plate. He's going to give us something. 8 MR. ARREOLA: Well, gentlemen, if we can 9 discuss my budget in executive session? I don't know if we 10 can do that still. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is it related to 12 personnel? 13 MR. ARREOLA: Yes. We might be able to help 14 out a little bit. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. We need to 16 hear from you. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Ready to go into executive? 18 MS. NEMEC: Could we do mine now? Would 19 y'all mind doing mine before we go into to executive 20 session? 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I've got a number I 22 want to talk about, too. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, yeah. We'll do it 24 in a second. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 9-7-05 105 1 MS. UECKER: Jonathan, if -- if -- from what 2 I understand, Odyssey is going to supply all of the 3 computers, right? 4 MR. TROLINGER: All the servers, yes. 5 MS. UECKER: But not the computers? 6 MR. TROLINGER: Not the desktop computers. 7 MS. UECKER: Okay. I thought you had told me 8 they were going to do the desktops. 9 MR. TROLINGER: As a part of the -- that 10 project, I have factored in printers, peripherals, hardware, 11 and some desktops that have to be replaced as part of it. 12 It does pay for some desktops. 13 MS. UECKER: The reason I was bringing that 14 up was because, you know, there's going to be a lot of good 15 computers that are going to be available to use somewhere 16 else if that's the case. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- I mean, my 19 understanding is that Mr. Trolinger's kind of factored in 20 the whole -- that we were given one item, and -- or one 21 number as to what Odyssey was going to cost. 22 MS. UECKER: Right. But, for instance, in my 23 office, I have budgeted for two. I bought two last year. 24 Those are good computers, and if Odyssey provides for those, 25 I mean, there's two just out of my office that are still 9-7-05 106 1 good, and I've got some others that -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. I -- I think he's 3 taken care of that or accounted for those. I don't know. 4 MS. UECKER: Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Were we straight on 6 the Road and Bridge issue? The truck and the man? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: That's what I'm hearing. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There may be something 11 else. That's just -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, I just -- I didn't 13 hear anybody but you say that, and I didn't see anybody -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're all ignoring me? 15 Is that what you're saying? 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I want to look at 17 216th and 198th. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Uh-oh. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We started out on 20 Special Trials for 216th requesting 100,000. We may have 21 changed that to 50; I don't know. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, we did. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. Again, I see 24 that the last two years, they've used no money. I 25 understand why it's budgeted. Experience shows that we 9-7-05 107 1 don't need it. And then, on 198th, for the last two years 2 we've spent $800 one year and $714. What kind of risk will 3 we be taking if we cut those two 50's back to 5,000 or 4 10,000? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If we have a trial, 6 we have to take it off -- declare an emergency and pay for 7 it. Your point is either declare it now or declare it 8 later, right? 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's time to be 10 looking at some big numbers, and $100,000 is a big number. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think part of that, we 12 put that in, I believe, because of the new unfunded mandate 13 that we -- is an unknown. Didn't we roll that into that, 14 Tommy, or do we have a new line item for that? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: You're talking about the 16 court-appointed civil, and you got those two figures there, 17 the 30 and the -- 18 MR. TOMLINSON: That's a new line. That's a 19 new line item. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: New line item? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let's take a chance. 24 Let's cut that -- that $50,000 per court back to $10,000 per 25 court. 9-7-05 108 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 2 MS. UECKER: I think there's two -- Rusty, 3 correct me if I'm -- aren't there two capital cases that are 4 looking to go? 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There's two, -- 6 MS. UECKER: Feaselman? 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- Feaselman and Seard, 8 that could go. Now, we've been saying that with both of 9 them. Feaselman's more likely to go. 10 MS. UECKER: Yeah. It's been set for trial a 11 couple of times. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Because of mental 13 condition. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which one is that, 15 Sheriff? 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Feaselman, the 198th 17 capital murder case. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It could happen. 19 But -- 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And that one will 21 probably go, because it was set -- just a few months ago, 22 subpoenas were issued, and right at the last minute, some 23 attorneys filed some other motions that had to do with 24 mental. That didn't go, but I would say that there is 25 probably a 98 percent chance at some time during this next 9-7-05 109 1 year that one will go, unless they work out some kind of 2 plea. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Which court is that? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 198th. 5 MS. UECKER: 198th. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think Seard's 7 going to happen this year. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Seard, I don't -- I have 9 no idea what would happen. 10 MS. UECKER: There's one other one, too, but 11 I'm not sure it's a capital case any more. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Now, there is -- we have 13 one, and this is just the same type situation. I had one 14 capital case that there is capital murder warrants issued. 15 The man's been floating back and forth across the Mexico 16 border. You don't know whether he's going to get arrested 17 during this year, whether we can get him prosecuted in 18 Mexico or whether it be here. And there -- 19 MS. UECKER: Is that Horales? 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: My whole point is, 22 we don't have any idea whether we need zero dollars or 23 100,000. And experience tells us that we err on the safe 24 side and budget a lot, but we don't need it, or maybe we 25 transfer it to another budget item, so let's cut them back. 9-7-05 110 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll be in favor -- based 2 on what the Sheriff -- what I'm hearing, I'd cut the 216th 3 back to 10,000 without any problem. On the 198th, I'm 4 also -- I'm hearing that there's a fairly high likelihood 5 that that's going to come -- to happen this year. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: And it's down to 30. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And it's already at 30, 8 so I wouldn't want to cut that one out. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Now, there is one thing 10 you can -- just trying to factor in, is the new law that now 11 there is a -- like, life without parole in the state of 12 Texas, so I don't know if that's going to affect the death 13 penalty stuff on juries or not. So, it may not cost as much 14 to try one of those. 15 MS. UECKER: It will. And there's also some 16 grants allowing counties to recoup costs on capital cases 17 here, but I don't know if we qualify for that. I know they 18 talked about it a couple years ago. Bandera would because 19 of their income and their revenues, but I don't know if Kerr 20 County would. There's just a lot of unknowns. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We're going to cut 22 216th special trials to 10,000? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: All right. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's a $40,000 savings. 9-7-05 111 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What's next? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Auditor, did we get the -- 3 the civil for the new C.P.S. cases? Are they in here, the 4 $30,000 and the $40,000 respectively? 5 MR. TOMLINSON: They're -- yes. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: In 216th and 198th? 7 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Now, there is one 10 position, as I mentioned just briefly a while ago, at the 11 Sheriff's Office. The one officer that's called up for 12 military duty, and has been called up for over three years 13 now. I don't know -- and I've talked to him a few times. 14 He's not in Iraq; he's in San Antonio, and fixing to get 15 stationed to other places and that. Now, there comes a 16 point we could cut that off. I don't think we should for a 17 military person, because they're doing a good job. But he's 18 also, I think, a lieutenant colonel right now in the 19 military, so his salary military-wise is a whole lot more 20 than his salary deputy-wise. But that salary for the deputy 21 is figured in the budget. I really don't foresee him coming 22 back as a deputy, but that salary's already in there. We 23 would have to fill it if he does come back, because he is 24 entitled to a job of equal pay and equal position, and then 25 not fill one if you had an opening after that. 9-7-05 112 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How long do you have 2 to leave that open? Forever? 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. I think, because of 4 the way it is, I could actually -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Close it? 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- close it, okay? But 7 he still has the right to come back at a position of equal 8 pay. He's -- you know, he still carries his certification; 9 he couldn't lose any of that. I mean, he just does have 10 that right. I don't think it would be right for us to say, 11 "Well, you volunteered to re-up after this point," you know, 12 we just cut him off. "You're no longer considered an 13 employee," just because it's military, and I don't think 14 it's right to do that. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You just keep running 16 it forever or what? 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It could do that. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He's sitting right 19 behind you. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. I wished he'd go to 21 the military sometimes. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You know, Rusty, I don't 23 have a problem, with the understanding that if he comes 24 back, we'll have to create a position, and we should. But I 25 don't mind using that as one as the four. 9-7-05 113 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. And it's the 2 same -- similar issue in special trials. We don't -- he 3 might not come back, so let's -- let's use the money now, 4 and when he comes back, do the right thing. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We'll declare an 6 emergency at that time and say we're hiring this person 7 back. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Now, it's -- going back 9 to having constables serve the warrants, I had my chief go 10 up and see what he could find in the Local Government Code 11 under Sheriff's duties. And under Sheriff's duty, warrants 12 are directed to the Sheriff to serve, and sometimes other 13 peace officers. It says that the Sheriff commits an offense 14 if the Sheriff fails to return a process or precept as 15 required by the subsection. It's the duty of the Sheriff to 16 serve all process issued to them. So, if the constables 17 say, "We're not serving those warrants," for whatever 18 reason -- 'cause I can not tell them what their job is. 19 They're trying to serve their J.P. warrants. When they 20 can't serve them, we put them in our system and they go 21 right along. We don't go out and try and hunt them for them 22 at that time. If an officer runs across them, they get 23 arrested 'cause they're in the system. But, actually, I 24 cannot relieve myself or the department of that duty. I 25 think I'm required to do it by statute. 9-7-05 114 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I understand that. But I 2 think that I would do whatever I can, and the Court will do 3 everything we can to -- 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Encourage. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- encourage the 6 constables to -- and I don't think you should reduce that 7 staff a whole lot, but if you can get maybe one there, and 8 one on this position that we're holding open, that 9 translates to two patrol. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But that's up to you, how 12 you -- 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. The warrant 14 section, just due to everything else that's in there, it 15 would not give me another person to move around on patrol. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, anyway, this 17 position here, in my opinion, can count as one of the four, 18 the one that we're holding open. That can be counted as one 19 of the four, and if that person comes back, we'll have to -- 20 we'll take the person back and create another position if we 21 have to. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: So, you're saying three. 23 Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. With the Treasurer, 25 I think that Ms. Mitchell and the Treasurer met, went over 9-7-05 115 1 it, and from my brief conversations with Ms. Mitchell, she 2 thought that she could handle that additional workload. And 3 I think it was outlined -- there was a -- I believe the 4 Treasurer prepared a -- 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If we get her some 6 relief in some of the other areas we talked about -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. Bringing in -- I 8 mean, we can't just add it without adding personnel up here 9 as well. 10 MS. NEMEC: I would just like to know how 11 it's going to be cost-effective to do that. I mean, if I'm 12 going to tell my part-timer that she no longer has a job, 13 I'd like to be able to explain to her how the County is 14 saving money by doing away with her position. And the way 15 the budget is proposed now and the figures that you all have 16 now, I don't see where it's cost-effective to do that. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, it's -- the way I 18 look at it is, it's freeing up or bringing some other 19 functions into this position. And if that doesn't work, 20 it'll be maybe just a part-time, and maybe will stay where 21 it is. But the booking comes out of Maintenance. 22 MS. NEMEC: That position in Maintenance is 23 not being done away with, though. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A position is being 25 done away with. 9-7-05 116 1 MS. NEMEC: At the Ag Barn. Not the booking 2 position. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that -- to me, that's 4 a different discussion with Maintenance. I don't know what 5 his plan is. We tend -- this Court tends not to get -- try 6 not to get into the business of saying what positions in 7 each department are eliminated, as far as, you know, 8 which -- in other words, this person or this person. 9 MS. NEMEC: So, by moving those functions of 10 my office into this office, are you creating another 11 position? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are we creating another 13 position? No. 14 MS. NEMEC: So you're not going to hire 15 anyone? Ms. Mitchell's going to do it all? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, a person's going to 17 do it; a half person here and a half person here. 18 MS. NEMEC: I don't understand that. Please 19 explain it to me. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, we're taking -- I 21 look at it as a total employee count. I think there's a -- 22 a function in maintenance -- being done in Maintenance right 23 now that is in a totally wrong place. Booking. I think 24 that doesn't make sense, to me, to be in Maintenance. You 25 know, but, obviously, that's not worth -- I'm not going to 9-7-05 117 1 hire a position -- new position up here to do that, so I was 2 looking for other areas, and that is why I asked Linda 3 earlier if it would be a way to get -- you know, if it helps 4 her to get rid of some staff in her office, to move 5 passports here as well. That was a consideration, I think, 6 in trying to consolidate some other positions into one 7 position here. And I think manpower-wise, you're -- we're 8 gaining half a person. 9 MS. NEMEC: So, are you hiring a full-time 10 position, an additional full-time position in the County 11 Commissioners' budget? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 13 MS. NEMEC: So I can explain to my -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And we're reducing a 15 person in Maintenance and a person in your -- a half person 16 in your office. I mean, that's -- to me, I think it'll 17 work. Maybe I'm wrong. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, I'll just add 19 one other comment to it. We have a need for a part of an 20 additional person to handle routine day-to-day coordinator 21 activities, so the consolidation of other functions -- 22 booking, personnel management -- in there makes it a whole 23 and full job, and so the net result is it reduces our budget 24 total county-wide some. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is it time for your 9-7-05 118 1 speech? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hmm-mm. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How come? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. No, y'all are 5 doing fine. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Who's next? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do have a comment. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: On -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Go ahead. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: On the Treasurer's situation, 11 there was a reason that those functions that we're talking 12 about moving went down there in the first place, and I think 13 one of the reasons was that, probably in large measure -- I 14 don't know; I wasn't here, wasn't involved in it, but it 15 occurs to me there is a lot of coordination between those 16 functions and some fundings that have to occur with regard 17 to various types of insurance. You've also got some issues 18 with confidentiality of records, with the worker's comp and 19 with the HIPAA and those sorts of things, and I think the 20 Treasurer has all of that -- all those arrangements made for 21 the secure storage and access to those records. I'm not 22 sure if -- if we ought to be pulling some of these things 23 under the direct control of the Commissioners Court, as 24 opposed to leaving them under the Treasurer, or maybe under 25 the Auditor combined with a purchasing agent, maybe. I 9-7-05 119 1 don't know; the Auditor said maybe we need a purchasing 2 agent. But all of these have a -- a financial-related nexus 3 to them, and if we pull those up here, there is going to 4 necessarily be continued involvement with the Treasurer's 5 office or the Auditor's office or both because of that 6 nexus, and I'm not sure we're gaining efficiencies. I'm 7 just not sure. And the other thing is, should we be getting 8 ourselves directly into the personnel business and these 9 other functions? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What was the 11 question? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Should we be getting ourselves 13 directly involved in the personnel and these other functions 14 that we're talking about? 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Judge, if this was 16 Harris County, we'd have a personnel management department, 17 and that's not -- it would be an elected official, and 18 they'd report to Commissioners Court. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think part of -- I 20 mean, you may be right. Part of my reasoning, Barbara has 21 on numerous times in the last year -- you know, "complain" 22 is probably not the best word to use, but had difficulty or 23 problems, and complaining basically about handling the 24 insurance, handling this. She's told us her chief deputy is 25 working, you know, way too much overtime. And we have -- 9-7-05 120 1 you know, and I'm looking at a way to fix a problem that she 2 has brought to us. She said that she didn't like doing the 3 stuff; that she wanted -- you know, if it's a -- you know, 4 if the Court doesn't want to do it, we don't have to do it. 5 MS. NEMEC: Commissioner, that's not going to 6 help any if you're doing away with my part-timer, which 7 means that my chief deputy is going to have to take on all 8 the revenues, all the accounts payable, all the state fees 9 reports. That's not going to help us as far -- if that's 10 what you're -- and the efficiency that you're going to lose 11 there, we're going to have to be in constant contact with 12 the person that is doing this. You can't separate those 13 duties without coming -- payroll, they're going to have to 14 provide all the information to us to input into our payroll 15 system. I don't see the -- the efficiency in the work, or 16 the cost savings in this. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess, from talking 18 with Mr. Trolinger and talking with you, what you have told 19 us during the year, you know, it makes sense to me. If it 20 doesn't, you know, it doesn't. I mean -- 21 MS. NEMEC: I'd like to know what the other 22 Commissioners think, and the Judge. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I just want to 24 make one comment on this list of things, personnel issues 25 handled by the Treasurer's office. Number two is insurance. 9-7-05 121 1 I want that out of the courthouse, regardless of whether 2 it's down there or up here, upstairs, down in the pretty 3 garden or wherever. I don't think that this county or 4 county employees need to be talking to employees about 5 insurance. We're not insurance salesmen; we're not experts. 6 And we visited with our friend Don down at Seguin, and he 7 has -- he hired a third-party here in town to handle these 8 things for us, and now we're finding out that they really 9 don't want to do a lot of that, so I'm in the process of 10 visiting with them to see what we can do. But I just -- 11 whether it's Barbara or our office or wherever, I don't 12 think insurance needs to be in this building at all, period. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree with you on that. 14 But the way I -- and outside of county government work, 15 there has been -- the insurance impact with the employees 16 and the government is that when you get hired, you're given 17 a packet of information, and the employee is responsible for 18 dealing with it and talking to the insurance company. And 19 when you're terminated or fired, you get a packet of 20 information; you deal with it. It's not that -- and it's 21 literally that simple, I think. I've been through it. I 22 think Dave has ran departments that do it, so I don't 23 understand why this has been a big issue. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I think part of 25 it is -- is the long distance issue down at -- our man being 9-7-05 122 1 in Seguin. You know, that's a difficult thing. I mean, you 2 have to -- I know it's a phone call or an e-mail, but still, 3 you have to go through that. And there are folks right here 4 in this town that will take this entire package and deal 5 with it all. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I don't disagree 7 with any of that. I'm just saying that most people -- in 8 the private sector, anyway, and I would suspect in the 9 government sector -- have to deal with it by phone or 10 e-mail. They don't have a choice. They don't have -- I 11 mean, insurance companies are -- you know, you don't talk to 12 your agent about a claim; you talk to -- you have to call an 13 800 number. They just don't know anything. I don't think 14 insurance should be a big issue one way or the other. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It shouldn't. We 16 shouldn't even be dealing with it. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree. It shouldn't 18 even be on here. It shouldn't be an issue. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's all I'm saying. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, if you're 21 relieved of that responsibility, that's not good? 22 MS. NEMEC: Oh, it would make things so much 23 easier in my office, because my chief deputy -- and it's not 24 just enrollments; it's questions. I mean, she has -- she 25 documents everything. And -- and all the e-mails that are 9-7-05 123 1 sent to our agent regarding problems and questions on claims 2 and not receiving insurance cards, she has all that 3 documented, and that takes a lot of her time. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The other thing -- 5 MS. NEMEC: So if we could find an agent that 6 would just handle the insurance -- and, again, I wouldn't 7 want them to charge more than what our current agent is 8 charging. If they could do it within the same -- and, you 9 know, I wouldn't care if it was our agent that is with us 10 now. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let me see if I 12 understand what you're saying correctly. I have a list here 13 with nine items on it identified. You're talking about -- 14 we're talking about insurance and that which is related. 15 That would be the insurance; Mutual of Omaha, AFLAC, et 16 cetera, et cetera, correct? That would be COBRA, HIPAA, 17 FMLA.; is that correct? 18 MS. NEMEC: Right -- well, FMLA is something 19 different. FMLA is when an employee leaves -- is on sick 20 leave and has to apply for family medical leave. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So it would be COBRA, 22 HIPAA, and employee enrollment and employee insurance, 23 retirement, and so forth; is that correct? I'm looking at 24 this list. 25 MS. NEMEC: Not retirement. Retirement has 9-7-05 124 1 nothing -- 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Retirement's a 3 separate issue, and I didn't touch on that. 4 MS. NEMEC: Right. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You would retain 6 workers comp, retirement, job descriptions, policy -- 7 personnel policy. Why wouldn't you want to get rid of job 8 descriptions and personnel policies? 9 MS. NEMEC: It's not that I don't want to get 10 rid of them. I -- I would get rid of them if you can show 11 me where it's going to be cost-effective to do that to this 12 county where we're going to save money, and where I can 13 explain to my part-time employee that she's losing her job 14 because we're saving "X" amount of dollars for my office to 15 get rid of it. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If these -- if these 17 functions were removed from your office, would that not make 18 your office more efficient? 19 MS. NEMEC: More efficient? I don't know. 20 My -- my chief deputy is not trained in revenues and 21 accounts payable. It would just -- all you would be doing 22 is -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What is she trained 24 in? 25 MS. NEMEC: Excuse me? 9-7-05 125 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What is she trained 2 in? 3 MS. NEMEC: Strictly personnel and payroll. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The chief deputy? 5 MS. NEMEC: Yeah. She doesn't have time to 6 be trained on anything else. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, I mean, the payroll 8 function, based on what Mr. Trolinger has told us, can be 9 totally automated, basically. I mean, it needs to be, and 10 that is something that can be done this year. The personnel 11 issue, the personnel policies, wherever it ends up, based on 12 an opinion we have from the County Attorney, we have some 13 serious problems looking at how these things are done, so 14 we're having to go over all that this year, whoever's doing 15 it. I don't know if you've -- I don't know if you got the 16 memo from the County Attorney or not on that issue, but 17 that's something that the Court's aware of and has to be 18 addressed. Based on what you have told me about your 19 workload, I was trying to fix it. If you want to take on -- 20 keep it all, that's fine. 21 MS. NEMEC: I just don't see where I can 22 explain to my employee that she's losing her job, and then 23 she's going to see that there -- that those -- some of the 24 duties are being sent over here and another person is being 25 hired. 9-7-05 126 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think the net 2 increase -- or the benefit is that you have to look beyond 3 your department. There is other work -- 4 MS. NEMEC: I have looked at it beyond my 5 department, and I can't see the savings. I mean, if -- if 6 you need a part-time person in here, there's enough 7 justification to hire a part-time person in here to do the 8 bookings and to help Ms. Mitchell with the duties that she 9 already has that she cannot keep up with. You don't have to 10 touch my department to do that. 11 MR. TOMLINSON: The question was asked a 12 while ago why personnel was in the Treasurer's office. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 14 MR. TOMLINSON: Well -- and I can't tell you 15 what year it was, but there is -- the Court directed the 16 Treasurer to be the personnel officer of the county. I 17 think that's a court order somewhere. And, so, that -- 18 that's why those duties are in that office. 19 MS. UECKER: It hasn't been that long ago, 20 either, I don't think. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Before I was a 22 Commissioner, which means it's over nine years ago. 23 MS. UECKER: Before you were? 24 MS. NEMEC: I've been here 15 years, and it's 25 been in that office ever since and before that. 9-7-05 127 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That can be undone. I 2 mean, I think that -- I mean, I'm sure it made sense to put 3 it there at some point. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else on that? 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let's move on. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, let's resolve it. 7 Are we leaving it where it is, or are we moving it? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Eliminate the job -- 9 half a job in the Treasurer's department and half a job in 10 Facilities -- or full job in Facilities and Maintenance, and 11 we're adding it to -- quarter of a job or half a job would 12 be needed up here. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So that's one -- one 14 full-time job and some or part -- at least one. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, adding a half 16 and taking away a half doesn't make a lot of sense. I think 17 we have to figure out what the right combination is. I'm 18 not -- I'm not all that comfortable yet till we figure that 19 out. Plus half and a minus half doesn't get us anywhere. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I counted two 21 fractions and a whole job. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, the whole I 23 understand, and I see the value there. I think the function 24 that we anticipate moving, for a lot of reasons, can be 25 done. But we have another idea, and the other idea is not 9-7-05 128 1 going to come to fruition? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not going to happen. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not at this time. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm going to tell 7 y'all about that idea right quick, and then I want to make 8 some other comments. But my idea before lunch was to take 9 the employee with D.P.S., the county employee, and bring 10 that person back here. We talked about that just briefly, 11 and Bill was -- kind of liked it. And we broke for lunch. 12 I ran across the street by myself and got a hamburger and 13 came straight back over here and sat down in my office and 14 there was a knock on my door, and it was D.P.S. (Laughter.) 15 I'm talking about within the hour. Guy's in dirty clothes, 16 and he had been out building a pigpen for his daughter's 17 stock show pig, and his superior called him from Austin, 18 Texas, and said, "Get over to the courthouse and find out 19 what's going on." Within the hour. While this happened. 20 So -- but bottom line -- and I was real honest and open with 21 him about what I thought. But the bottom line is, the state 22 budget's already in place. They kick off September 1. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So there's really not 25 time to say, "Hey, State, we're pulling the employee out; 9-7-05 129 1 y'all need to fill the thing in," cause they're already -- 2 it's already done. But I told him that it could be very 3 likely that we do it next year. So, anyway, I just thought 4 it was very humorous, within the hour, that the phone call 5 goes all the way to Austin and all the way back over here 6 and the D.P.S. trooper's knocking on my door. That's 7 absolutely incredible. I don't think we need computers. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not when it comes to 9 budgets. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Guess not. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The pipeline, baby. 12 So, in my opinion, that -- that deal's out. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: What about the interplay with 14 Maintenance here on -- at the time that that occurred, that 15 was before the realization that the two additional juvenile 16 detention buildings are going to go back under the 17 maintenance responsibility. Does that change anything here? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think at one point we 19 had talked about two maintenance positions. Then we talked 20 about one maintenance position, and I thought we were at 21 one. You know, my only concern on maintenance is, 22 maintenance needs to be doing maintenance, and I -- and I 23 just think the booking function doesn't fit in maintenance. 24 It may -- it works better to bring -- to be able to create a 25 position up here and combine it in with that -- with some 9-7-05 130 1 other responsibilities. If that doesn't work, I think we 2 bring it up here and increase the pay to Ms. -- to our 3 current administrative assistant; just add another job for 4 her, 'cause I don't see how you can add a part-time spot. 5 It doesn't -- it doesn't fit very well to give her the 6 relief that we were trying to do, adding a -- you know. 7 So -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, what confused me 9 about that issue was, early on, Glenn said I'll be -- and in 10 a very kind way, "I'll be happy to do what you guys want, 11 and I'll relieve an employee." And then a little bit -- 12 right at the -- before the lunch break, he said, "Now that 13 you're moving forward with the Juvenile Detention Facility, 14 I don't think I can do that," or something like that; I 15 can't remember. So, I'm confused whether he's going to cut 16 one or not. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 18 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, I am. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: One? 20 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, you're taking on the 23 juvenile facility and -- and reducing a person. 24 MR. HOLEKAMP: Obviously. And, as I said, I 25 serve at the pleasure of the Court, so if the wishes are -- 9-7-05 131 1 is for me to cut a position, I'll do it. Now, I -- there's 2 no guarantees that we can get everything done, because 3 there's a lot of problems with the 48-bed facility out 4 there, so y'all are going to have to be patient with 5 maintenance; that's all I can say. Be patient with us. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But running a 24-hour 7 facility, just like that one and mine, you can't wait. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think this process 9 is getting offtrack. 10 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We -- we went 12 through -- we saw the need to reduce staff to have a smaller 13 payroll, and we went through it this morning and made a lot 14 of decisions, tough decisions, and I don't think we should 15 be going back and revisiting each one of those. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, maybe not. But 17 I just want one more comment -- one more, please? 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes, sir. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. On this 20 personnel issue here -- and, god, I hate to admit this, but 21 I agree with the Judge. (Laughter.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Unfortunately, she took it 23 down. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, goddangit. 25 Please don't print that in the press. But, you know, 9-7-05 132 1 what -- one thing that bothers me about this thing coming up 2 here, and in talking about doing things in a more kinder, 3 gentler way, is that the things that we're doing up here 4 with this and the things that she's doing down there that we 5 -- I mean, it's not -- we have to keep -- continue 6 communicating back and forth. I need this kind of 7 information from you to get this done. That kind -- you 8 know, just -- that bothers me a little bit, that we're -- to 9 me, we're creating more work, as opposed to doing what we're 10 trying to do. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I tend to agree with 12 you. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You do? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm inclined to agree 15 with you. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Would you say that you 17 agree with the Judge? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I didn't say that. I 19 said I'm inclined to agree with you. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Almost had him. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess, I think the -- 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know how to 23 handle -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think we're 25 creating a situation, Commissioner, that becomes 9-7-05 133 1 counterproductive. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And I think the Judge 4 did touch on some issues that -- that is certainly something 5 we don't want to overlook, and that is the confidentiality 6 of employee records and records that relate to health and 7 retirement and other personal -- personal personnel issues. 8 So, you know, I think -- I think we're getting disjointed 9 here in our effort to make some combinations. I'm not all 10 that comfortable. So, I'm kind of on the same page with 11 you. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess I -- you know, 13 that's fine. We can look at it for another year. I guess 14 my question is, I really don't know how -- I don't see what 15 difference it makes that much. I mean, I think that it's 16 clearly -- with computers and information, it's not -- you 17 know, our turnover is not that high. I don't know how many 18 -- how many employees do we have change a month, Barbara? 19 An estimate, average. 20 MS. NEMEC: Just depends. Five to 13, 14, 21 15, you know. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Per month? 23 MS. NEMEC: Per month. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think -- I don't 25 really want to create a situation that becomes 9-7-05 134 1 counterproductive or breaches personnel confidentiality. I 2 agree with Commissioner Baldwin that we need to get the 3 insurance decision things, routine, that should be handled 4 by an agent out of your house. And the sooner we do that, 5 the better I'm going to like it, because I think that's what 6 we're paying these people to do. And it's -- and it's kind 7 of disconcerting to know that you're still doing the things 8 we're paying them to do, but I think we need to get those 9 things. I think we're also on the threshold -- not this 10 year, but we're on the threshold of creating a personnel 11 officer, a person who is devoted full-time to that. Not 12 necessarily this year, but we're getting darned close. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: See, I have a hard time 14 talking about new staff when we're cutting staff. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm not talking about 16 new staff today. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess, on that note, if 18 we're taking the insurance out of it, let's get rid of half 19 of the spot in the Treasurer's office and not replace it. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Say that again? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Reduce half a staff in 22 the Treasurer's office and not replace it, and insurance 23 goes elsewhere. 24 MS. NEMEC: Insurance is not taking up half a 25 staff of mine. That's just an added duty that we got in 9-7-05 135 1 January that we've been having to deal with. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm not -- I'm not 4 saying that I want to go back and revisit the thing; I just 5 want us to be careful in what we're doing, that we're not 6 doing something that's stupid. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm hearing -- I hear 8 three votes that say they don't want to make a change, so 9 that means we're not making a change. Let's move forward. 10 I mean -- 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Can I get the Court to 12 consider two patrol positions instead of four? I'm just 13 going to have a hard time -- right now, I have one opening, 14 and that position would be, you know, the second one, if the 15 Court did, that I wouldn't have to fill, and I won't have to 16 tell deputies they don't have a job. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess my comment is -- 18 and -- 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If the figures will 20 work. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- the two commissioners 22 on this side of the Court have been doing most of the 23 proposed cutting. I see we need two -- one to two employees 24 to go, and we're still getting a 2-cent tax increase right 25 now, so I'll pass it to the other side of the table and find 9-7-05 136 1 out where else we're going to cut. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me ask Mr. Stanton a 3 question. This $20,000 figure, Mr. Stanton, to utilize IV-E 4 funds in lieu of $20,000 of otherwise county-budgeted funds, 5 you can utilize those funds in a manner that will be under 6 the IV-E authorized permitted purposes? 7 MR. STANTON: The only reason -- the only 8 thing we can't use IV-E funds for is secure residential 9 detention -- secure residential service and detention 10 services. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: But there are other permitted 12 purposes that you can use them for? 13 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Stanton says he can throw 15 20,000 into the pot, and he's able to do this by using some 16 IV-E state funds, which are restricted purposes, rather than 17 utilize county-budgeted funds. So -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where would we use 19 those funds? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, they would have to be 21 utilized within the Juvenile Probation Department, but 22 that's 20,000 of county funds that would not have to go to 23 fund it. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's okay. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 9-7-05 137 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's fine. Thank 2 you. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Did you get that one? 4 (Mr. Tomlinson nodded.) 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, now that I've put 6 a roadblock in your -- in your program, where are we? Did 7 we -- have we done anything this afternoon? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Based on what my record 9 is, we have -- from the numbers that Tommy gave us, we have 10 reduced $132,000 net. And that has a 2-cent tax increase, 11 including that, so we're at about a 21 percent reserve and a 12 2-cent tax increase. That's where we are right now. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: How much did you say? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 132. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I've got 152. Did you get the 16 last 20? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. I have 20 for 18 Juvenile Probation, 52 for a dump truck, 40,000 from 216th 19 Special Trials. I netted the Sheriff out to $130,000 20 savings. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, that's the 20 22 difference. Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I broke out 130 -- I had 24 40,000 for computers, 10,000 for deputies' -- 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 9-7-05 138 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- overtime, and 20,000 2 for jail overtime. And then you add the -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So it nets down to 4 132. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: 130. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 132. Net 130 for the 7 Sheriff, and 132 net when you take out the airport stuff 8 that was not included. So, that puts reserves at probably 9 about 21 percent. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's close. 11 MS. NEMEC: Is that putting my part-timer 12 back in there? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: At the moment. I -- they 14 said they wanted to leave it, not make any changes in your 15 department, so I guess it is. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Is that correct? Is 17 that what the three of you are saying? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't see the 19 proposal is workable. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that means that the 21 Commissioners Court will not be hiring an additional staff 22 at all. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Is that your sense 24 of it, Judge? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: That the Commissioners Court 9-7-05 139 1 does not hire additional staff? That's kind of what I 2 understood. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I'm not there 4 yet. I'm not -- we're not -- we're not through, are we? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. We're waiting for 6 you, or someone. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's keep her going. 8 I -- I can't remember. I overheard the words EMS this 9 morning somewhere. Is that -- is that 200,000 in this sheet 10 of paper? 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 13 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes, it is. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We still haven't 15 heard from Miguel, who wants to talk to us. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Tommy? 17 MR. TOMLINSON: Clarification on overtime for 18 the jail and Sheriff. Did we -- did you agree to that? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The amounts that I 20 penciled in, I think -- I don't know if they're the same as 21 the Judge had -- was 20,000 additional for the jail and 22 10,000 for deputies. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: All right. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: O.T.? Overtime? 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Hmm? 9-7-05 140 1 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If there's nothing else, 3 I think Miguel wanted to say something in executive session. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Do we have anything else to do 5 in the open or public session at this point, gentlemen? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not at this time. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I hope we can come 9 back to it if we want to. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah -- oh, yeah, we'll come 11 back to open session. At this time, we will go out of open 12 or public session at 5:43. 13 (The open session was closed at 5:43 p.m., and an Executive Session was held, the 14 transcript of which is contained in a separate document.) 15 - - - - - - - - - - 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order 17 at 6:04. We are in open or public session. Commissioner, 18 the number I get is, according to your figures, we made a 19 net $132,000 reduction. According to the reductions that 20 we've gotten this afternoon, I show a net reduction of 21 $132,000 since the run the Auditor made today. In 22 calculating the reserve, the Auditor may have done something 23 different, but my calculation is under 21 percent. I 24 actually have 20.86, rounded. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Those look about right. 9-7-05 141 1 I have a question for the Sheriff. Would you -- the 2 computer cost to put the wireless computers in the cars is 3 about $40,000. Would you rather spend that $40,000, or 4 would you rather get a deputy back? 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'd rather get a deputy 6 back. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd make -- I'd go with 8 that change. That way, basically, you're losing two 9 deputies. One's a position that's not -- that you're 10 holding open. That's one. I mean, it's a position that's 11 coming off the schedule, but it's not a -- a deputy you 12 currently have. And then eliminate the computers, and then 13 trade that for a -- 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Now, you had started out 15 with four positions. One of those is open; I just won't 16 fill it, so we're talking about three officers. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: On the military person's 19 position, I need to keep the position. Y'all are just not 20 going to fund it. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. So that would be 23 two, so we're still down right now to two. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, I think we're down to 25 the -- what was the first one? The one you -- 9-7-05 142 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The one I won't fill. I 2 have an opening right now that I was fixing to move an 3 officer out from the jail. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But that's a deputy's 5 spot? 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: A deputy spot. I will 7 not fill that spot. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: For that, or the 10 military is the second spot. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's two out of the 13 four. And right now we're still looking at having to -- to 14 cut two active officers. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If I get one back in 17 exchange for the computers, okay, that would take care of 18 one of those. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Dollar-wise, that's a 20 wash, I think. That's up to the Sheriff. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I would still like to 22 keep the second one, though. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let me ask you a 24 question, Sheriff, if I might. What I just heard you saying 25 is you got one deputy that have you to lay off. 9-7-05 143 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If it stays with the 2 two, I have two deputies. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. What -- and 4 you know your turnover experience better than I do. What 5 risk would there be in not laying somebody off, say, and 6 waiting for some attrition to take care of the need to cut 7 back? Is that too great a risk? 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, it's not something 9 that I would say y'all can count on the dollars. This Court 10 has worked with me over the years. We do not have the 11 turnover in deputies any more. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: As you can tell. The 14 City's got nine openings right now, and I don't have any 15 deputies trying to go. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Is there any other 17 way to keep one or two people on the payroll? Could you 18 transfer them to the jail? 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What I'm going to -- 20 what I would have to do is, I do have some openings in the 21 jail that I'm going to interview tomorrow. One of those 22 openings is a sergeant position. The -- if I transfer a 23 deputy into the jail and put him into that sergeant's 24 position in the jail with some training, 'cause it is two 25 totally different job duties, he would probably take a cut 9-7-05 144 1 of about one to two thousand a year, okay? The second 2 deputy I could put in an opening jail position, but he would 3 take a cut of at least 5,000 a year right now. You know, 4 I -- I just -- if we -- if we only do one, give up the 5 computers, okay, then I've got one deputy going to the jail. 6 That deputy would take a one to two thousand dollar cut, 7 'cause I put -- could possibly put him in that sergeant's 8 position in the jail. But -- and then if we do have an 9 opening, I could move him back out onto the street. But -- 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd go along with that. 11 That's -- to me, you know, my philosophy all along is the 12 dollars are in your department; you need to use them as you 13 want, so I have no problem with making it basically as a 14 three reduction. One -- one's a sliding slot you're not 15 filling. One we're keeping but not budgeting for, so it's 16 just one true slot, correct? 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: One is not filling the 18 one we have, one is the military one, and then I -- and 19 then -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're taking three off of 21 the position schedule, wherever it is here; three positions 22 are coming off of that. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: Right. That's the way I 24 heard it. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm even confused now. 9-7-05 145 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Isn't that right? 2 MR. TOMLINSON: That's what I have. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Except for, actually, 4 the military one, the position does not come off the 5 schedule. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, the dollars for the 7 position come off. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I can't do away with the 9 position. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That doesn't change the 11 132 at all. Really, that's basically a wash. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: So, what I'm going to 13 have to do is actually move one deputy off the street. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct. I think the 15 Auditor has a question or a comment? 16 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, I wanted to explain, 17 there -- there is -- I didn't have time to -- when I 18 calculated the cost-of-living, I didn't have the time to 19 calculate cost-of-living on the current salaries, so -- so I 20 calculated it on the -- on the current salaries plus the 21 longevity. So, it's over -- it's overstated by 3.2 percent 22 of -- of the longevity that went into the budget. So -- so 23 there will be a difference when we actually calculate what 24 it should be. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. But it'll also be 9-7-05 146 1 some due to the overall staff reductions. We're looking at 2 some savings on insurance, some savings on lots of different 3 -- I mean, it will increase some of those a little bit. 4 Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We ready to vote? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got a neat place 8 to take a little money out. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I want to delete Line 11 Item 10-595-450. That's Airport Operation, $283,541. 12 What's funny? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just -- well, I 14 really don't think we can do that. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do. Let me show you 16 how you do that. You take your pencil and draw through it. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We could do that on 18 any number of departments. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why couldn't do you 20 that? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, if we throw 22 away our half of the operation -- in effect, that's what 23 you're proposing, that we throw away our half of the 24 operation, which says then you're going to give our half of 25 the -- of the airport back to the City. 9-7-05 147 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Under our contract, we 2 give the airport to the City. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And I don't see that 4 as something that's productive for Kerr County. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I don't see it 6 as productive to reduce law enforcement either, and 7 protection for the citizens of Kerr County. This is -- I 8 mean, I -- this just -- I mean, I don't care about that 9 airport. It does -- I don't think it does anything for this 10 community. We're out there -- it's a luxury item, in my 11 opinion. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It brings in a lot of tax 13 revenue. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's an economic 15 development issue. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And Mooney and other 17 issues. There's definitely dollars at the airport coming 18 in. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand where 20 you're coming from, but you -- you would just be giving 21 away -- you're talking millions of dollars in property and 22 value. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're talking about 24 dollars and cents, and in my opinion, protection of our 25 public is -- I mean, that's not even -- you can't even 9-7-05 148 1 compare money to the protection of our community. I just -- 2 I don't get y'all's thinking. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But that already -- we're 4 reducing one deputy on the street. And the argument of you 5 can't pay enough of that, well, then it's just never-ending; 6 let's raise the tax rate as high as we can every year to put 7 it all on law enforcement. Which I know you're not saying 8 that, but that's the other side of that. Anyway, I don't 9 agree with that. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I knew you wouldn't. 11 But if you wanted to get serious about cutting the budget 12 and helping the taxpayers, there's a good way right there. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it hurts the 14 taxpayers. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, we disagree. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- at all. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Do we have any more 20 items to consider under Agenda Item Number 2? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Surely not. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're going to let 23 you identify them if we do. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me -- well, let me throw 25 one out here. 9-7-05 149 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there any -- is there any 3 desire on the Court to get into the issue of employee 4 contributions to the health and -- health benefits program? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Does that affect the 6 tax rate that we're -- I'm assuming we're going to vote on 7 here in a few minutes, huh? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In order to answer 9 that question, I have to ask what has the Auditor got built 10 in in terms of increases for health care obligations? 11 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, the number that I -- 12 that we put -- that we used for -- for funding the health 13 plan is 100 percent county funding. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm sorry, I can't 15 hear you. 16 MR. TOMLINSON: It's 100 percent county 17 funding, the number that I used. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How many employees do we 19 have? 20 MS. NEMEC: 300. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: 277. 22 MS. NEMEC: How many? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: 277. 24 MS. NEMEC: On the insurance probably, yeah. 25 Plus part-timers. 9-7-05 150 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It raises $166,000 if we 2 charge employees $50 a month for their health insurance. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Process question. 4 Is this something -- since the insurance plan is on a 5 different budget year than this, is this something we can 6 deal with at the time we re-up on our insurance? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we deal with it 8 then, but we have to budget for it now. 9 MS. NEMEC: I think another thing you need to 10 think about is when you get employee contributions into an 11 insurance plan, then the employees have the option to opt 12 out, and that's going to affect our rates, because employees 13 will start opting out. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that's -- 15 Mr. Looney said the same thing, and the -- we don't know how 16 it really sorts out, but you'd lose the low risk people and 17 keep the high risk people. 18 MS. NEMEC: Right. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think there's 20 something to be said for that. Also, I'm kind of -- I don't 21 particularly like the idea of -- of helping the employees 22 with a cost-of-living allowance on one hand and taking away 23 from them on the left hand. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't particularly 9-7-05 151 1 like to do that. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further discussion on 3 that? Anything else on Item 2? Let's move to Item 3, 4 consider and discuss approval by record vote of the proposed 5 Fiscal Year 2005-2006 tax rate and set date, time, and place 6 of first and second public hearings. The Tax Assessor was 7 kind enough to give me a marching order here as to the dates 8 of those required public hearings that'll still fit within 9 the window by September 30th of this year. The first public 10 hearing to be held on September 19th, the second public 11 hearing to be held on September 23rd. Am I correct on that, 12 Ms. Rector? 13 MS. RECTOR: That's correct. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion we set 16 the tax rate at .3896, which is a one and three-quarter cent 17 increase over the current rate. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What is it? .3 -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: .3896. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: .3896. And that 21 would be what, a cent and a half over -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: A cent and 23 three-quarters. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Cent and 25 three-quarters. 9-7-05 152 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If my calculations are 2 correct. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, what does a cent 4 and three-quarters -- 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yield. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What does it give 7 you -- yeah, what does it yield? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: About 304,000. About 9 $304,000, which means our reserve would probably be less 10 than 20 percent; in the neighborhood of 20 percent. It will 11 be close to 20 percent, but probably slightly under. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 304. And Tommy had 13 built -- you had built -- built in 2 cents? 14 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And 2 cents is 400 -- 16 MR. TOMLINSON: 410. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 410. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 414. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: My calculation of one and 20 three-fourths will give you 357,875. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're at .3721, correct? 23 MS. RECTOR: Yes. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: .3721, and 1.75 is -- did 9-7-05 153 1 I misadd? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: No, that's -- 3 MR. TOMLINSON: That's right. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: .3896. 5 MS. RECTOR: That's right. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I get a $357,875 increase. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, the amount? How much 8 did you get? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: $357,875. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Well, it'll be 11 about 20 percent, with reserves somewhere in that 12 neighborhood which is 5 percent lower than our policy, which 13 means we'll be going through the same exercise next year, it 14 looks like. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: The -- 16 MS. NEMEC: I'd like to remind the Court that 17 this year was the year that we got hit the hardest with 18 longevity, 128, because this is the year that we first 19 started. So we won't -- we're going to have this problem, 20 you know, every so many years with 128 employees, and that's 21 hurting us too. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the only thing -- 23 other thing is that if there are vacancies during the year, 24 it helps if we can defer filling them as long as possible. 25 That's up to the elected official's discretion, not ours. 9-7-05 154 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Does your motion include 2 setting the first and second public hearings for -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 19 and 23. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: -- September 19th, 2005, and 5 September 23, 2005, both those hearings to be held in this 6 courtroom at -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 10 a.m. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 10 o'clock. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: -- 10 a.m.? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, it does. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I second the motion. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What are those two dates 13 again? Sorry. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 19 and 23. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: 23, yeah. Does that include 16 everything you need, Ms. Rector? 17 MS. RECTOR: I need a record vote on the 18 proposed rate. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 20 MS. RECTOR: Including the Judge. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any further discussion 22 or -- or question concerning the motion? 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Just to be clear, 24 this means that we're under the rollback rate, and the only 25 opportunity for citizens' input is these two hearings? 9-7-05 155 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's correct. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: I believe that's correct. 3 MS. PIEPER: Judge, would you like me to take 4 a record vote? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. 6 MS. PIEPER: Commissioner Baldwin, how do you 7 vote? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Aye. 9 MS. PIEPER: Commissioner Williams? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Aye. 11 MS. PIEPER: Commissioner Letz? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Aye. 13 MS. PIEPER: Commissioner Nicholson? 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Nay. 15 MS. PIEPER: County Judge? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Aye. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Guess we told you. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: See y'all Monday -- oh, 20 see you tomorrow. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: We will stand adjourned. 22 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 6:20 p.m.) 23 - - - - - - - - - - 24 25 9-7-05 156 1 2 STATE OF TEXAS | 3 COUNTY OF KERR | 4 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 5 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 6 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 7 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 8 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 14th day of September, 9 2005. 10 11 12 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 13 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 14 Certified Shorthand Reporter 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 9-7-05