1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Regular Session 10 Monday, September 12, 2005 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 DAVE NICHOLSON, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X September 12, 2005 2 PAGE --- Visitors' Input 4 3 --- Commissioners' Comments 11 4 1.1 Consider/discuss accepting maintenance of Scenic Ridge Road upon completion of construction 5 that meets county standards 16 1.2 Announce October as Texas Archeology Month in 6 Kerr County 35 1.4 Consider/discuss authorizing Kerrville Area 7 Chamber of Commerce to coordinate Kerr County Sesquicentennial Celebration in combination and 8 consultation with Commissioners' Court, Historical Commission, and representatives of cities and towns 9 within the county 36 1.3 Approval for League of Women Voters to use a 10 District Courtroom for voter education the evening of September 20, 2005 43 11 1.11 Consider Final Plat of River Road Ranch, Pct. 4 45 1.13 Set a Public Hearing for Revision of Plat for 12 The Reserve of Falling Water Lots 34-37 47 1.5 Public Hearing for Revision of Plat for Whiskey 13 Ridge Ranches, Section 2, Lots 17 & 18, Pct. 3 49 1.6 Consider Final Revision of Plat for Whiskey Ridge 14 Ranches, Section 2, Lots 17 & 18, Pct. 3 49 1.14 Consider a Resolution of non-compliance pursuant 15 to 3.04 of Kerr County Subdivision Rules and Regulations to be posted in the Deed Records 50 16 1.7 Public Hearing for Revision of Plat for Kerrville Country Estates Section Two, Lot 34A, Pct. 1 55 17 1.8 Consider approval of Final Revision of Plat for Kerrville Country Estates, Section Two, Lot 34A 56 18 1.9 Public Hearing for Revision of Plat for Mosty Pecan Grove, Vol. 7, Page 295, Pct. 2 57 19 1.10 Consider Revision of Plat for Mosty Pecan Grove, Vol. 7, Page 295, Pct. 2 58 20 1.12 Consider letter to Headwaters Groundwater Conservation District concerning compliance to 21 Kerr County Subdivision Rules and Regulations 61 1.15 Consider/discuss procedures for the paying and 22 reporting of expenditures involving penalties, fees, interest, or other costs associated with late 23 payment or other administrative system failures 63 1.18 Consider Interlocal Agreement between Kerr 911 24 and Kerr County 69 1.16 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 25 Library Contract with the City of Kerrville 72 3 1 I N D E X (Continued) September 12, 2005 2 PAGE 1.17 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 3 Animal Control Services Contract with the City of Kerrville 92, 227 4 1.19 Consider authorizing expenditure not to exceed $5,000 for Professional Services to meet the 5 requirements of TWDB for Regional Wastewater Facilities Planning Grant for Center Point 99 6 1.20 Consider appointing a Board of Directors for over- sight of Kerr County Juvenile Detention Facility 103 7 1.21 Consider adopting Policy and Procedure Manual for Kerr County Juvenile Detention Facility 107 8 1.22 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to reaffirm County's support of development of the 9 Hill Country Shooting Sports Complex 113 1.23 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 10 FY 2005-06 budget 122, 235 1.24 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on the 11 organization of Maintenance Department 228 1.25 Reports from the following departments: 12 Information Technology 239 Road and Bridge 246 13 Facilities and Maintenance 253 14 4.1 Pay Bills 258 4.2 Budget Amendments 262 15 4.3 Late Bills 273 4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 274 16 5.1 Reports from Commissioners/Liaison Committee 17 Assignments 275 18 --- Adjourned 276 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 4 1 On Monday, September 12, 2005, at 9:00 a.m., a regular 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in the 3 Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville, 4 Texas, and the following proceedings were had in open court: 5 P R O C E E D I N G S 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, ladies and 7 gentlemen. Let me call to order this regularly scheduled 8 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court scheduled for 9 this date and time, Monday, September 12th, 2005, at 9 a.m. 10 It's just a bit past that now. Commissioner Williams, you 11 are up this morning. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Will you please rise 13 and join me in a word of prayer followed by the pledge of 14 allegiance. 15 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. At this time, if 17 there is a member of the audience or the public that wishes 18 to be heard or to tell us something that's on their mind 19 that doesn't relate to a specific agenda item, feel free to 20 come forward at this time. If you are wanting to speak on 21 an item that is a listed, specific agenda item, we'd ask 22 that you wait until that item is called, and then you'll be 23 recognized, and in that event we'd ask that you fill out a 24 participation form. The forms are at the back of the room, 25 or should be. If not, if you'll give us a holler, we'll get 9-12-05 5 1 some back there. It's not absolutely essential that you do 2 that; it just helps me to not miss you when that agenda item 3 comes up. But at this point in time, if there's any member 4 of the public that wishes to be heard on any item that is 5 not listed as a specific agenda item, feel free to come 6 forward at this time. When you come forward, if you would, 7 if you'd give your name and address so that the reporter can 8 take that down. 9 MS. HOLEKAMP: I'm Wanda Holekamp, 121-A 10 Barnell Road, Comfort, Texas. I'm here to speak on behalf 11 of the FCS agent position, the County Agent for Kerr -- for 12 Kerr County, whom we haven't had one for over a year, and 13 we're sorely missing the leadership that this person 14 provides for the people -- members of the Education 15 Extension Association, as well as the youth of this 16 community. We need that position. There's another function 17 this position serves, and it's for those people who fall -- 18 do not have health insurance and are not covered by other 19 plans of insurance. It does a lot of work for nutrition and 20 for helping those people manage their lives and to live a 21 better life, and I feel that this County needs to support 22 those people as well as the position. And -- and so far as 23 cost of the position, it's only -- the County only pays a 24 small part of that salary, so I wish you would consider 25 retaining that position. Thank you. 9-12-05 6 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Ms. Holekamp. Is 2 there any other member of the audience or the public that 3 wishes to be heard on any item? Please come forward, ma'am, 4 and if you'll give your name and address? 5 MS. LINDNER: My name is Ruth Lindner, and 6 I'm from Comfort. I live at 314 Holiday Road, and I'm here 7 to speak on the same issue that Wanda Holekamp is. I was 8 born in Kerrville, I graduated from Tivy High School, I went 9 to Schreiner for a year, and then I went to the University 10 of Texas where I received a Bachelor in administration -- 11 Business Administration, BBA degree, and I married Harvey 12 Lindner from Comfort. We lived in San Antonio for a long 13 time, and I taught school for 20 years, and then I'm now a 14 retired teacher, and I'm still interested in education, not 15 just for myself; for my family and for the community. I 16 feel that one of our big goals on the nationwide level is to 17 promote good health and teach us to not just eat a good 18 diet, but to exercise so that we are healthy people. We 19 have a big, wonderful program in Medicare, but it's going to 20 flounder with all of our obese people in the United States, 21 and we need to address the issues that are in our county. 22 We should look at Louisiana. Some of us have 23 watched on TV what was going on. They were given money to 24 build a safer town for New Orleans. They spent the money on 25 other things, and because of that, they got flooded in a 9-12-05 7 1 very bad way, and it had something to do with decisions that 2 were made by their leaders. And I think we should learn 3 from that, that we need to make the right decision, keep 4 someone in the position of County Agent who serves the 5 community, not just these clubs that we belong to. I'm a 6 member of the Cypress Creek Club and have been for 22 years, 7 and my interest in the club is not just to have a good time. 8 We are an education organization and we do wonderful things. 9 And when I say "wonderful things," the healthy aging 10 conference that was held the past three years; we had it 11 here in Kerrville, then we had it in Fredericksburg, and 12 this year we had it again in Kerrville, and the County 13 Agents in Fredericksburg and Kerrville were the ones who 14 organized it and put it on. It was very worthwhile. It was 15 for the community, not just for a few select people, but it 16 certainly was helpful. 17 And recently we had this appear in the 18 Express News, and it has to do with children, teaching them 19 the right foods to eat and how they can live their lives so 20 that they will be healthy when they get older, when they're 21 adults and when they're senior citizens. We have lots of 22 senior citizens here in the Hill Country. We have a lot of 23 senior citizens in Kerrville, and we want to have healthy 24 people as young people grow up and get older. We all need 25 to address that, and we feel that Amy Chapman did a good job 9-12-05 8 1 in that position, and I assumed that you all were going to 2 replace her. And I would be happy if you hired her back. 3 But I don't like to hear that you've decided not to hire 4 someone in that position, that you could use the money for a 5 better purpose. I don't think you could use it for a better 6 purpose than to have someone in this position. Thank you. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Ms. Lindner. Is 8 there any other member of the public or the audience that 9 wishes to speak on a specific agenda item that is not listed 10 as a specific agenda item? 11 MS. CALCOTE: Yes, sir. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Calcote? 13 MS. CALCOTE: Y'all probably don't want to 14 see me. I'm Hazel Calcote, 1701 Calcote Road, Kerrville, 15 and I've lived here 54 years. Love it, and I'll die 16 fighting every last one of you for it. And first I want an 17 answer from y'all; I got a question. Why have you all not 18 hired someone to replace Amy? I just learned it's been 19 nearly two years since we've had a female County Extension 20 Agent. Why are you-all's requirements more important or 21 better than A & M's supervisory district's recommendation? 22 Is y'all's agenda 36-24-36? Why haven't you hired 23 something? Can you answer that, sir? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, we're not permitted on 25 this portion of the agenda to interact. We're certainly 9-12-05 9 1 willing to listen to anything you have to say. When it 2 comes up for that specific -- when that specific item comes 3 before us, of course, we'll enter into discussion and 4 dialogue and be happy to talk with you about that 5 specifically at that time, but on this portion of the 6 agenda, we are privileged to listen but not respond. 7 MS. CALCOTE: Okay. That's your Fifth 8 Amendment, in other words. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Pardon? 10 MS. CALCOTE: That's your Fifth Amendment, in 11 other words. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I -- in a sense, Hazel, that 13 would be correct. 14 MS. CALCOTE: Yes. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: In this portion. 16 MS. CALCOTE: Okay. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Now, later on, if we get into 18 a specific item dealing with that, we don't have that Fifth 19 Amendment available to us. 20 MS. CALCOTE: Okay. Just at some point in 21 time, I want y'all to answer my questions. Not -- in a 22 courtroom, not on a corner somewhere. And the next thing 23 is, I'm here for the kids. I've always loved kids and 24 horses, in that order, and I want to know why we don't have 25 this female County Extension Agent. Because, granted, we've 9-12-05 10 1 got a super good male Extension Agent who takes care of the 2 ag part, but you all don't realize -- if you've never been 3 in 4-H, you have no concept of how much you learn from it. 4 The female teaches the girls and any boys that are 5 interested gardening, home economics, cooking, sewing, home 6 beautification, nutrition, whole ball of wax. And I'm 7 interested in saving kids, not waiting till they get in 8 trouble and then try to bail them out of the trouble or 9 retrain them, because some kids, it's so imprinted, you 10 don't get them retrained. And, as I understand, y'all 11 didn't want to hire one of them. One of the reasons was 12 that you didn't have enough money in the budget. Prune 13 juice! I suggest that each one of you all, Judge included, 14 deduct an amount from your salaries each month to pay an 15 Extension Agent to make up the difference. As I understand, 16 you only pay 25 percent -- the County only pays 25 percent 17 of her salary anyway, and you all wouldn't miss enough to 18 give her a salary so we can hire one, and so I'm asking all 19 of you to try to help us save kids. If we just save one, 20 we've saved a lot of money. So, please -- immediately, 21 tomorrow, quick -- hire a new County Extension Agent. If 22 Amy -- get her back or someone. And you all were elected to 23 represent your constituents, and not each other. Thank you. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Ms. Calcote. Is 25 there any other member of the audience or the public that 9-12-05 11 1 wishes to be heard concerning a matter that is not a listed 2 agenda item? Seeing no one else coming forward, we will 3 move on. Commissioner Williams, what do you have for us 4 this morning? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Nothing right now, 6 Judge. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Letz? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll address all three of 9 the ladies that spoke a little bit just briefly on this. 10 AUDIENCE: There's more of us here; we just 11 didn't speak. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: As I said, the three that 13 spoke. We have been trying to fill that position. We have 14 not had what we felt was a qualified candidate up till now, 15 and I don't know that we have one right now. The last -- I 16 think we -- is it one we've turned down, Judge? Is that 17 correct? Two? But there were -- I mean, we have looked at 18 quite a few, and for reasons of not suiting our community, 19 not living in the community, we didn't think it was a good 20 match. So, we have tried to fill that up until the current 21 time. And the decision last week was to not cancel the 22 position, but just not fill it for a while, and I certainly 23 will reconsider that. I think that the budget will be on 24 the agenda several more times this month, and that change 25 can be made to try to hire someone right now, but that's 9-12-05 12 1 kind of where we are. It's not that we have not. For the 2 last year, we have tried to fill it. We just haven't been 3 able to find a qualified candidate that everyone agreed 4 with. And I when I say "everyone," I mean the Court, other 5 representatives out at the Extension Office, and also the 6 district -- I guess district administrator, whatever, 7 Mrs. -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Mapston. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- Mapston out of Uvalde. 10 We've discussed it several times. So, that's on that issue. 11 And I had another issue that I forgot what it was; I got 12 sidetracked. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Your bridge? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you, sir. The 15 Hermann Sons Bridge is open right now for traffic. The 16 official opening will be on the 14th at 10 o'clock in the 17 morning. We will have -- not done it in a long time -- the 18 first Commissioners Court posted meeting at that location. 19 We won't be deliberating anything, but we will be meeting, 20 and we'll officially open it at that time, and the Court 21 will be there. We invited some representatives from the 22 Kendall County Commissioners Court as well, and some other 23 people that had some involvement in getting that project 24 underway, including TexDOT, contractor, and others. That's 25 all I have. 9-12-05 13 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Got some good rain 2 out in west Kerr County yesterday and the day before, and we 3 had -- had brush fires, so rain is timely. I've got a 4 different view on that County Agent position. I don't think 5 it's proper use of county taxpayer funds to fund that. 6 That -- that teaching nutrition and house beautification and 7 how to set a pretty table and those sort of things are not 8 hot on my list of priorities, and I would prefer that we not 9 fund it. That's all. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are you saying that 11 you're not willing to give up some of your salary? 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Oh, for something 13 else, but not for that. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Ms. Calcote has her 16 hand up. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? Commissioner 18 1? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir, I don't have 20 anything, other than I watched a lot of great football over 21 the weekend. Man, fun time. Fun time, beginning Friday in 22 San Angelo with our fighting Tivy Antlers. Had a great 23 weekend. Great weekend. That's all. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We've had a couple -- 25 couple of the members of the Court weigh in and waive their 9-12-05 14 1 Fifth Amendment. Are you wanting to waive someone else's 2 Fifth Amendment, Ms. Calcote? 3 MS. CALCOTE: No, sir. I would like to 4 answer his question. May I do that? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, we're -- 6 MS. CALCOTE: Add on to the end of my speech? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: We're already finished with 8 that portion of the agenda. And what I'm about to say may 9 be of some interest to you. I suspect that -- as I 10 indicated, we've had at least two members of the Court that 11 have waived their Fifth Amendment privilege that was open to 12 them in the visitors' section of the agenda. I suspect that 13 that and a number of other items may come up during our 14 budget discussions later on today, since we do have a 15 general budget section. I -- I think I'm already on record 16 as being somewhat in support of that FCS position, and as 17 recently as last week, I was in conversation with 18 Ms. Mapston concerning an applicant that we have been 19 discussing. As Commissioner Letz said, there have been 20 several applicants, and for one reason or another, they were 21 not thought to be the proper fit, but that's not something 22 that's been left by the wayside. With regard to the issue 23 of economics concerning that position, I'm not sure which 24 one of you ladies mentioned it, but we only -- the County 25 only pays a portion of that position. It's something less 9-12-05 15 1 than 50 percent. I'm not sure it's 25; may be closer to 2 somewhere between 30 and 40 percent, but the bottom line is 3 we only pay a portion of that, and it's less than 4 50 percent. 5 The other thing that I would note from an 6 economic standpoint is, one of our largest employee costs, 7 of course, is our health insurance, health benefits program. 8 We do not fund the health benefits portion of that employee, 9 so we also save those funds. With regard to potential 10 benefits from the -- from the FCS position, I think -- I 11 think we stand every chance -- in fact, a probability that 12 we will make up those funds by savings in our Indigent 13 Health Care program, by virtue of the educational services 14 that are provided by that position, and which educate folks 15 that are susceptible to a number of different conditions, 16 Type 2 diabetes and things of that nature, so that, properly 17 educated, those costs can be held down rather than them 18 utilizing the emergency room and the Kerr County treasury to 19 take care of their health insurance costs. But I suspect 20 that issue will be debated some more later on today when 21 that -- when that issue comes up. 22 So, if you'd like to stay around and 23 participate in that, Ms. Calcote, or any of the rest of you 24 ladies, why, we invite you to be here. I would note that it 25 is listed as pretty close to the tail end. In fact, it may 9-12-05 16 1 be after lunch. It's either going to be late this morning 2 or after lunch, one or the other. That's the best guidance 3 I can -- I can give you at this point. It's listed as Item 4 Number 23. So, let's move into the agenda, if we could, and 5 Item 1, consider, discuss, and take action on the County's 6 acceptance of maintenance on Scenic Ridge Road upon 7 completion of construction that meets county standards. 8 Commissioner Nicholson? 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I want to introduce 10 Mr. Johnson, who is a representative of the residents on 11 Scenic Ridge Road. 12 MR. JOHNSON: Thank you. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What do you want us 14 to do, Mr. Johnson? 15 MR. JOHNSON: Commissioner, what we'd like to 16 do is just have a resolution or statement from the 17 Commissioners Court that, upon reconstruction of this 18 roadway to county standards, meaning the -- I think it's 19 20-foot-wide road base, 16-foot-wide travel lanes, the 20 4-inch crown, the typical country lane county standards for 21 the roadway itself, that the Commissioners Court agrees that 22 upon the property owners financing and providing that 23 reconstruction of the roadway, that it then be accepted by 24 the County for maintenance. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We did not do that in 9-12-05 17 1 our previous conversation? 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Mr. Baldwin, in our 3 previous court order, we -- we said yes, if you'll bring it 4 up to county standards, we'd like -- we'll accept it, if it 5 passes the inspections and all. At that time, we asked for 6 a 40-foot right-of-way. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And what we see now 9 is that's not practical. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: 40 foot would put 12 the right-of-way almost on the corner of -- of the 13 foundation of a couple of the houses. And it was originally 14 accepted as a 30-foot right-of-way, so we're proposing to -- 15 to confirm that a 30-foot right-of-way, 4 foot on either 16 side and 16-foot pavement, is sufficient. And they 17 correctly point out that the feeder road for this is also a 18 30-foot right-of-way road, so it's not in any way changing 19 traffic patterns or inhibiting egress and access. So, I 20 make that motion, that we -- that we will, upon inspection, 21 accept Scenic Ridge Road for county maintenance once it's 22 brought up to county standards as a 30-foot right-of-way 23 road. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I second that motion, 25 but I'd like to have a comment from Road and Bridge. 9-12-05 18 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second. 3 Questions or comments? Discussion? 4 MS. HARDIN: The only comment I have is that 5 in the past, when we did West Hi-Line, we made those people 6 on West Hi-Line do 40 feet. The road didn't necessarily 7 take up the whole 40-foot right-of-way, but the right-of-way 8 was dedicated by each -- property owners on each side. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And that's in the same 10 neighborhood, is it not? 11 MS. HARDIN: Same subdivision. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And it was a 40-foot 13 right-of-way? 14 MS. HARDIN: Yes, sir. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's being proposed 16 here is a 30-foot right-of-way; is that correct? 17 MS. HARDIN: That's correct. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not real familiar 19 with, I mean, the terrain out there. Never been on the 20 road. But the reason for 40-foot right-of-way is not the 21 road; it's the maintenance of the road. And if there's -- 22 even if you can't get it on the whole road, any part of that 23 road that -- where, you know, it's possible to, you know, 24 get to 40 foot, it certainly is preferable, just because it 25 does cause a lot of, you know, drainage and other issues, 9-12-05 19 1 and that's the reason for the 40 foot. The road wouldn't 2 have to change as long -- I mean, the road -- the same 3 requirements. But the other question I had, Truby, is, as I 4 read on this list, there's six families. Is that country 5 lane? Or is there -- is that -- what's the cutoff for 6 country lane? I know there's a number. 7 MS. HARDIN: 15. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, so it meets that. 9 That was my only comment. We need to look at the terrain. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Commissioner, if we 11 could fit a 40-foot right-of-way in there, I think that's 12 what we ought to do, even though it comes out off of a 13 30-foot right-of-way, but it just can't be done. It 14 wouldn't have any use. You'd have your equipment up there 15 against a house. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You get up next to a 17 house? I mean -- 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: At 40 foot. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: At 40 foot. 20 MS. HARDIN: Are you talking about doing the 21 road in the existing footprint it has now? Or with the 22 cul-de-sac at the end? Or -- 23 MR. JOHNSON: May I respond to those? We're 24 talking about the roadway as it is now. The property owners 25 that I represent abut the road on the side. They don't have 9-12-05 20 1 any capacity to require or suggest or participate in a -- an 2 extension of the road into what's Lot 6 now at the end of 3 the road. They're asking the Commissioners to -- let's keep 4 this discussion to accepting the existing roadway. We're 5 not setting out a new county road. The subdivision 6 standards were already dealt with back in '79 when this plat 7 was accepted and dedicated roadway was made, so that's -- 8 it's not extending the road. The platting may be something 9 that needs to be done, but that's for the owners of Lot 6 to 10 do. That's not a part of this offer -- presentation. All 11 we're asking is that the existing right-of-way, existing 12 road, if we reconstruct it, be accepted for maintenance. 13 We're not laying out a new road, and so the elements that 14 are in the statutes about roadway width for right-of-way or 15 drainage or all of those things are all part of the 16 subdivision process. We're not in the subdivision process. 17 We're just asking for an acceptance for maintenance. 18 We're asking to allow the continuation of the 19 30 feet for really, I guess, three reasons that are 20 practical applications. You know, there's the legal that 21 we're not laying out a subdivision, but the three practical 22 are, it's off an existing 30-foot road and -- and maintained 23 county roadway, Caitlin Drive, so this is no wider, no 24 narrower, just the same as Caitlin, which is already a 25 county-maintained road. Second, where the houses are -- and 9-12-05 21 1 they've been there for a long time -- to go 40 feet would 2 put right-of-way right up against the corner of one -- at 3 least one and very close to one other of the houses, and 4 it's just not a practical, safe thing to do. And I guess 5 the -- and the third element is, this is only 575 feet long. 6 We're not talking about a road that goes over the hill and 7 back down and up and, you know, serves large acreage. None 8 of these lots is larger than about 2 or 3 acres, and the 9 smallest is a little over 2 acres, but it's -- this is a 10 short road. It's already an existing, accepted public 11 roadway with houses that have been there for a long time. 12 We're asking that it be limited -- that this part of this 13 process be limited to just reconstructing the roadway and 14 accepting it for maintenance. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's -- this is a 16 dead-end road? 17 MR. JOHNSON: It's a dead-end. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's no cul-de-sac? 19 MR. JOHNSON: No. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How's the County turn 21 around when we have a maintainer on that road? 22 MR. JOHNSON: Well, if we were designing a 23 new road that -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We are, in my opinion. 25 MR. JOHNSON: Well -- 9-12-05 22 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Mr. Letz, the -- 2 MR. JOHNSON: It's an existing public 3 right-of-way. It was accepted by the Commissioners in '79. 4 That's, you know, the -- you can't -- I don't think there's 5 a requirement that when the roadway design requirements 6 change, that you can go back in history and tell everybody 7 else they have to change their roadway or they're not valid 8 any more. So that's -- 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The Lot 6 issue I 10 see as a separate issue. It's certainly connected to it, 11 and I'm asking Road and Bridge, with the help of the County 12 Attorney, to notify the owners that subdivided Lot 6 without 13 approval that they have to come into compliance, and at that 14 time, when they -- when they do that, we'll want to look at 15 -- at their subdivision and determine what they need to do 16 about either roads or cul-de-sacs. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, that's a 18 concern, because we have -- we have a similar one that's 19 going to be -- is on the agenda for reconsideration, and one 20 of those considerations in that was creation of a cul-de-sac 21 at the end of a 30-foot right-of-way for the purpose of 22 turning around emergency vehicles and maintenance vehicles. 23 So, it is -- it is a concern. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just think it all needs 25 to be dealt with at one time. I mean, I just -- I think 9-12-05 23 1 that this is going totally contrary to where the County is 2 trying to go if we accept a road that -- you know, that this 3 county would not build if it was, you know, building a road 4 itself. And that's kind of the general standard, is that we 5 don't want to require any developer or any individual to 6 construct a road to a higher standard than the County. But 7 the standard of the road is -- to me, is the cul-de-sac, 8 right-of-way, and things of that nature. Right-of-way, we 9 have given variances on for reasons like this, and I don't 10 have any problem with that. But you know, a cul-de-sac is 11 pretty important from an emergency standpoint and vehicle 12 standpoint, and also from a maintenance standpoint. I mean, 13 if we get a maintainer or chip spreader down there, what do 14 you do, I mean, if you can't turn it around? I just think 15 that issue has to be resolved. The rest of it, I can -- as 16 long as it's built to the standards I think they're 17 proposing, I can go along with it. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think what I need 19 to do is to withdraw my motion and ask Road and Bridge and 20 the County Attorney to -- to take whatever steps are 21 necessary to -- to cause the Lot 6 subdivision to be brought 22 to the Court for approval. 23 MS. HARDIN: Our instructions from the Court 24 are to go back to December 11th of 2000 for plat -- this lot 25 was divided in the early '80's under family members. 9-12-05 24 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Meaning? 2 MS. HARDIN: Meaning that we don't -- we're 3 not -- y'all said you weren't going to go back and do any 4 replatting or have the County Attorney look into anything 5 that was platted before December 11th of 2000. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: People on Lot 6 aren't 7 willing to work with y'all? 8 MS. HALL: No, sir. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are they local? Are 10 they there, or just a vacant lot, or what's the status of 11 the property? 12 MS. HALL: I live on Lot 6. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pardon? 14 MS. HALL: I live on Lot 6. 15 MS. HARDIN: There's two ladies here that 16 live -- 17 MR. JOHNSON: Ms. Green and Ms. Hall. 18 MS. HALL: There are two roads that have been 19 maintained by the County, Looker and Hi-Line, that don't 20 have turnarounds. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And you have -- I may 22 have missed something, so if I accuse you of something, 23 forgive me, but you have an illegal piece of property? 24 MS. HALL: I don't know that. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, if you do, 9-12-05 25 1 you're in trouble. 2 MS. HALL: I will see to that. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 4 MS. HALL: 'Cause I am not aware of that. We 5 just moved there in April. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Lines are out in the 7 county right-of-way and those kinds of things? Or what is 8 the problem with Lot 6? 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Lot 6 -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And not being able to 11 put a cul-de-sac there? 12 MS. HALL: We would allow emergency vehicles 13 to turn around and use it; fire trucks, ambulances, anything 14 like that. I mean, it's open for emergency vehicles. It's 15 just not part of the road. It comes up to our property, but 16 it's definitely used for emergency vehicles. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What is the -- let's 18 see. 1980 -- '70 -- '89. Was it '89 when the road was 19 adopted? Is that -- 20 MR. JOHNSON: No, '79. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: '79. 22 MS. HARDIN: Before there -- there were no 23 subdivision rules in place in 1979. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I can't remember if 25 that's something I did or not. What is the distance? What 9-12-05 26 1 is the distance of the road? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 500-some-odd yards. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 500-something feet? 4 MS. HALL: 575 feet. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, it stops before it 6 gets to Lot 6. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It stops at Lot 6. 8 And Lot 6 has been subdivided, and I don't know -- is it one 9 or more properties? 10 MS. HALL: It's two. But if we put it up to 11 standards of 30 feet, it would be at our front door. We 12 could not get in our door; the road would be right there. 13 MS. GREEN: I'd like to speak to that if 14 could, please. I'm the other owner. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: We need for you to identify 16 yourself -- 17 MS. GREEN: Okay. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: -- if you wouldn't mind, 19 please, ma'am. Come forward. 20 MS. GREEN: Sure. Thank you. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Give your name and address, 22 please. 23 MS. GREEN: Carol Green. It's 114 Scenic 24 Ridge Road West. My husband is George Green, and we're the 25 owner of the other two lots. The Halls own two lots and we 9-12-05 27 1 own two, and in what you're calling Lot 6. And first I'd 2 like to say that the reason we bought the property -- and I 3 think it was in December -- was for the privacy that it 4 offers, and we're not willing to call that a cul-de-sac. 5 It's not a cul-de-sac. It's a private drive for two 6 residents. And if emergency vehicles need to enter there to 7 turn around or to service somebody else, we're not opposed 8 to that, but it is private property, and -- and we really 9 don't want to give up that privacy and have everybody coming 10 in and circling in that -- what is being called cul-de-sac, 11 because it comes right up past my front door. You know, and 12 the reason we bought the property was for privacy. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess -- you know, I 14 understand your willingness to let people do it, but if the 15 County goes up there and turns around, we're trespassing. 16 That's my problem, is that it's a trespass issue. I mean, 17 unless you go out there and give permission; I guess we 18 could do it. 19 MS. GREEN: It's my contention that there are 20 a number of other streets that have the same situation that 21 they have on Scenic Ridge Road West, and they manage quite 22 well. And I don't know of any reason why we should be -- 23 feel inclined to have to do that, when privacy is really 24 what we came here for, and we like the place. And one 25 neighbor has already been forced to move because of the 9-12-05 28 1 hassle over this. Judy Kinsman, I'm sure you all remember 2 her. But she just couldn't take the hassle any longer, so 3 she moved away, and -- and the Halls bought her place. But 4 we don't intend to move, but we don't want to give up our 5 privacy either. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question. And -- I mean, 7 the map I have is pretty basic. Lots 2A and 3B, would they 8 be willing to give up property for the cul-de-sac? Or is it 9 not possible on those two lots? 10 MS. GREEN: They're further up the street, 11 right? Do you have the owners' names? 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Palmer and Furr. 13 MS. FURR: I'm Mrs. Furr. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You're up toward 15 the -- 16 MS. GREEN: My husband and I really don't 17 care whether the County takes over the street or not. We'd 18 actually just as soon they didn't, because there are only 19 six of us on that street, and we're all our age or older, 20 and we really don't have a lot of traffic in there. There's 21 no big parties, there's not a lot of -- of traffic of any 22 kind in there, and any vehicle that came in there to service 23 that road could easily back out. And we have had concrete 24 trucks; we've been making a garage, and the Halls are making 25 a garage. We've had big concrete trucks, big 18-wheelers 9-12-05 29 1 unload loads of rock and that sort of thing. They have no 2 problem negotiating the -- the turn, which is our front 3 yard. And we're not opposed to people doing that for an 4 emergency, and we'd be willing to sign and write up to that. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 2A looks like it's 6 Palmers, and 3B is Mr. Alford and Ms. Mefferd. Are they 7 here? 8 MR. JOHNSON: Yes, I'm here representing the 9 Alford and Mefferd -- 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Would they be willing to 11 give up -- or can they physically give up enough property to 12 put the cul-de-sac back more on their property? 13 MR. JOHNSON: No. Both those houses are 14 close enough that -- those are the two houses that -- and 15 particularly the Palmers -- that would make it extremely 16 difficult for it to even be 40 feet wide rather than the 17 existing 30 feet wide. 18 MS. GREEN: Really, the best thing for people 19 to do is just leave that street maintained by the people, 20 and for the same amount of money that we could bring it up 21 to county specs, spend that money to bring it up to specs, 22 and the thing will last 25 more years. It's been there for 23 25 or 30 years now, and has never had any maintenance of any 24 kind on it, to my knowledge. Maybe I'm wrong. But the 25 street is still passable. It is now in dire need of repair. 9-12-05 30 1 But if we're going to have to bring it up to specs, why 2 don't we just do that? Leave everything like it is, and 3 let's all stay happy. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with you. 5 However, I'm going to leave my second to the motion in 6 place. 7 MS. GREEN: Could you repeat that second 8 motion for us? I don't remember exactly what that was. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't remember 10 exactly what it was either. (Laughter.) 11 MS. GREEN: Sorry. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It was to approve the 13 agenda item. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's to approve 15 acceptance of the road for county maintenance upon 16 inspection with a 30-foot right-of-way. 17 MS. GREEN: But then later, you're going to 18 come back when the County's in a position to maintain that, 19 and the County's going to discuss to replat 6, and they're 20 going to ask for that to be a cul-de-sac, and we're very 21 much opposed to that because it would take away what we 22 bought the property for, and -- and that's my position. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You are Lot 6; is 24 that correct? 25 MS. GREEN: Yes, sir, I own 6 and a quarter 9-12-05 31 1 acres in Lot 6. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: From the little plat 3 diagram I'm looking at, that's about a 10 and three-quarter 4 acre piece of ground. 5 MS. GREEN: The entire plat is. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But what you're 7 telling us is that you're close to the property line? Is 8 that what you're saying? 9 MS. GREEN: Well, the road dead-ends into the 10 front of my property line. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, that's what I'm 12 seeing. 13 MS. GREEN: You call it a cul-de-sac, but it 14 never has been a cul-de-sac. You couldn't even hardly get 15 around that when we moved here, and we've widened the street 16 around, you know, for our own use and the Halls. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Commissioners, the 18 county surveyor is also here, and I know he's intimately 19 familiar with that. He and I have been out there three or 20 four times, I think, so if you need any confirmation about 21 the physical characteristics of the road and community, he 22 can give them to you. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess -- I mean, you 24 know, I don't want to come across as being hard-nosed, but I 25 understand the people want the -- you know, or may want the 9-12-05 32 1 county road, but with that comes some standards. And you 2 all can't meet those standards. And I -- you know, it seems 3 that your proposal makes the most sense to me, is to upgrade 4 the road and leave it private -- leave it a public, but a 5 privately-maintained road. 6 MS. GREEN: Just curious. If we're going to 7 have to spend the money anyway to bring it up to specs, why 8 not just spend it and keep it -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My standpoint is, it's a 10 precedent. On any given situation, I can rationalize and 11 justify making a waiver, but what I look at is that the -- 12 we're opening the door for next time, and next time the 13 road's 1,000 feet and there's a cliff at the end of it or 14 something. I mean, you just get in a situation that you 15 can't turn emergency vehicles around and things happen. 16 And -- and we can't say yes here and then arbitrarily say no 17 sometime else. 18 MS. GREEN: Another problem that we have on 19 our lot is that the prior owner built a road from our place 20 down the hill to Roddy Tree Bed and Breakfast, and a lot of 21 the people in the community are familiar with the road. 22 It's now ours and it's private, and we don't want people 23 going through. And, true, there's a fence at the end of it 24 down at Roddy Tree, but if people can come around that 25 cul-de-sac and it becomes public, it just makes that 9-12-05 33 1 wide-open for people to see that road, and they just go 2 right through our property and have to turn around down at 3 the fence. So, there's another issue we face. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Help me understand 5 one thing, just -- I'm sorry, Jon. I'm looking at Article 2 6 of the -- of the document that was prepared. I believe you 7 prepared it. Three, four, five -- six property owners. 8 You're listed as one of them, as an applicant. Is that 9 correct? 10 MS. GREEN: I'm sorry? 11 MR. JOHNSON: They had signed the petition 12 that was in the backup materials. That's the reason they're 13 listed there. There was a petition; I think it's Exhibit A. 14 MS. GREEN: On that petition, I think in 15 signing it, we indicated that we did not want the cul-de-sac 16 made public; that it was not a cul-de-sac. 17 MR. JOHNSON: Yeah. And this application 18 doesn't -- it's just asking about the existing county road 19 of Scenic Ridge Road as it exists. We're asking that it be 20 accepted for maintenance upon reconstruction. But there's a 21 petition in Exhibit A that's signed by all six of the 22 abutting property owners. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I see that. 24 MR. JOHNSON: Including the Halls and the 25 Greens. 9-12-05 34 1 MS. GREEN: Since that time, we found that 2 it's opened a whole new bag of worms that was not presented 3 to us with the original things. And the way it's developed, 4 we're not interested in having the County take over the road 5 and have to change everything. We'd like to just leave it 6 the way it is. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, then, you really 8 -- you're telling me that you and your husband, as property 9 owners in Lot 6, are -- are withdrawing your support of the 10 petition for county maintenance? 11 MS. GREEN: Yes, sir, that's correct. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's correct? 13 MS. GREEN: That is correct. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner, let me see where 15 you are exactly. I -- I understood you as having withdrawn 16 your motion? 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm not going to 18 vote for my own motion. Should I withdraw it? (Laughter.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Did you not indicate you were 20 withdrawing your motion? 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes, sir. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess the other -- it's 24 just a -- I just read the original court order that was 25 referred to. My understanding of our subdivision rules and 9-12-05 35 1 state law is that once that plat gets revised, it's under 2 the rules at that time. If that -- if Lot 6 has been 3 divided, we're under current rules, not the rules of '79. 4 MR. JOHNSON: Well, but we're not 5 replatting -- this is not an application for replatting. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it needs to be, 7 because those lots have been divided. 8 MR. JOHNSON: Well, our property owners don't 9 have any capacity to control whether or not they replat Lot 10 6. We're just asking that this be accepted for maintenance. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 12 MR. JOHNSON: And, you know, there's 13 documentary evidence that it was already accepted for 14 maintenance when the plat was done, but we don't want to -- 15 you know, we don't want to get into that. We -- we're 16 willing to pay for it, recognizing the County's tight on 17 money right now. But once it's reconstructed, we'd like it 18 to be listed as a county-maintained road. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't think that's 20 going to happen, Mr. Johnson. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. Does any 22 other member of the Court have anything further to offer on 23 this? If not, we'll move to a highly controversial item; 24 Item Number 2, consider, discuss, and announce October as 25 Texas Archeology Month in Kerr County. Commissioner 9-12-05 36 1 Baldwin? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. As you 3 notice in the letter in your backup, they simply ask us to 4 announce October as Texas Archeology Month in Kerr County, 5 and I move to do so. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Third. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 10 approval of the agenda item. Any question or discussion? 11 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 12 hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Kathy, you would send 18 the court order to these folks? Thank you. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll move to Item 3, 20 consider, discuss, and -- excuse me. We have a timed item 21 for 9:45; it's slightly past that now. We'll move to Item 22 4, consider and discuss authorizing the Kerrville Area 23 Chamber of Commerce to coordinate the Kerr County 24 Sesquicentennial Celebration in combination and consultation 25 with Kerr County Commissioners Court, Kerr County Historical 9-12-05 37 1 Commission, and representatives of the several cities and 2 towns within the county. I put this on the agenda at the 3 request of representatives of the Chamber of Commerce and 4 Mr. Joe Herring, Jr., who is with us here today. 5 Mr. Herring? 6 MR. HERRING: Hello. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, sir. 8 MR. HERRING: My name is Joe Herring, Jr. I 9 reside here in Kerrville. As you know, the county will have 10 its 150th birthday in 2006. I serve on the Board of 11 Directors of the Kerr -- Kerrville Area Chamber of Commerce. 12 A group of us formed a task force to see if it would be 13 appropriate for the Chamber to produce an event celebrating 14 the 150th birthday of the county. I prepared a handout for 15 you guys. Is that enough, guys? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. Joe, does 17 this mean that we all need to grow our beards? Say yes. 18 I'm wanting to, and I need a reason to do it. 19 MR. HERRING: That is one of the events 20 that's been discussed, a beard growing contest. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 22 MR. HERRING: However, our board has not 23 voted to have this event. We felt it was probably more 24 appropriate to come and ask you, before we plan anything, if 25 y'all had something planned. And if you do not have 9-12-05 38 1 something planned, maybe then we could go ahead and produce 2 such an event. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Essentially, you're here 4 asking if it would be appropriate from our viewpoint that 5 you guys take the lead in it? 6 MR. HERRING: Correct. But I don't think we 7 want to expend a lot of time and effort if y'all are 8 planning something too. I think one event's probably 9 appropriate, and not several. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We've had a lot of 11 discussions about it in the past, and -- and we've set the 12 date with General Schellhase, who heads the Historical 13 Commission. 14 MR. HERRING: Who's here. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Had an outline of 16 some plans. We thought the plans were good, but the 17 problem, where we got hung up, was who was going to lead the 18 event -- lead the effort, and funding for the effort. So, 19 it -- at this point, I think it would be safe to say it has 20 sort of floundered. 21 MR. HERRING: Yes. We -- as you've seen, we 22 have done some initial just research. The actual event is 23 in January. However, during the 1956 centennial 24 celebrations, they celebrated in April, merely because the 25 weather is usually better in April than January. We would 9-12-05 39 1 propose something similar. I've talked with Clarabelle. 2 I'm afraid I haven't talked with General Schellhase about 3 dates, but researching the community calendar, we feel an 4 April date might be appropriate for such a celebration. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The date -- the April 6 dates were set by the Court at the recommendation of, I 7 believe, the Historical Commission, I think for the reason 8 you just noted; it ties to what happened 50 years ago. 9 MR. HERRING: Correct. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In terms of the 11 celebration time. 12 MR. HERRING: It could be a lot of fun. The 13 event could be a lot of fun, but I think we're at an awkward 14 point. Do we proceed? If -- if y'all are going to do 15 something, we don't want to step on your toes. If you're 16 not going to do anything, I think we're willing to jump into 17 the -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I can clear that up 19 for you right quick by offering a motion that you folks be 20 -- take over the development and everything that's 21 associated with the sesquicentennial. 22 MR. HERRING: I intended to introduce the 23 President of the Kerrville Area Chamber, Brian Bondy. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Before I get a 25 second, why don't you do that? 9-12-05 40 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 2 MR. HERRING: Only other comment I'd make is, 3 we don't anticipate this being a Kerrville event. This is a 4 county event, and so we will be actively seeking partners in 5 the other chambers and in the other communities of our 6 county. However, it ought to be a lot of fun. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Appreciate y'all taking 8 that on. 9 MR. HERRING: Sure. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and a second 11 for approval of the agenda item for the Kerrville Area 12 Chamber of Commerce to take the lead, as it were, as listed 13 on the agenda. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mr. Bondy may have 15 some comments. 16 MR. BONDY: No. I think the bottom line from 17 our perspective, and with the -- any of the organizations in 18 the county, is we only turn 150 once, and it's a great 19 opportunity for many organizations to come together and put 20 something together. What that is at this point is really 21 too soon to tell, but with -- with at least an initial step 22 from -- from you all, we can get into that mode really 23 quickly and put something together. 24 MR. HERRING: Right. We do not have 25 authorization from our -- our board yet, so we're -- we're 9-12-05 41 1 doing this and then getting authorization. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you want us to 3 give you a qualified approval? 4 MR. HERRING: No, no. I want to you say go. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what we're 6 saying. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Personally, I appreciate your 8 willingness to take the lead in this thing. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I do too. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Because it's needed. And, as 11 Mr. Bondy said, you only turn 150 once. 12 MR. HERRING: That's right. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Comment before we vote on 14 that. General Schellhase? You like this approach? 15 GENERAL SCHELLHASE: You bet. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The general, as I'm sure 17 you -- I don't know if you've talked to him, but he's done a 18 lot of work on this and has a lot of information, which I 19 don't know if y'all are -- certainly, I'm sure you can -- 20 MR. HERRING: The initial letter to Judge 21 Tinley said we would work in consultation with the 22 Historical Commission. I've already contacted every 23 historical commission in the state and every main street 24 program in the state to find out what they've done in their 25 communities. 9-12-05 42 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We thank you for 2 stepping forward. 3 MR. HERRING: You're welcome. There was a 4 vote, then? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There will be. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Will be. Any further 7 questions or comments? Mr. Emerson? 8 MR. EMERSON: I have one comment. I don't 9 think the wording on your agenda item allows you to take a 10 vote. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Authorizing? 12 MR. EMERSON: Consider and discuss. It 13 doesn't say take action. 14 MR. HERRING: Maybe I can do that at a future 15 date. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure, that will be 17 great. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We'll put it back on 19 for the 22nd; it will happen. 20 MR. HERRING: Do I need to return on the 21 22nd? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, you do not. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What does 24 "authorizing" mean? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess -- I think he's 9-12-05 43 1 saying because it says "discuss authorizing," as opposed to 2 saying just authorizing. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He likes the 4 language, "and take appropriate action." I found that out. 5 I'll have it on for the 22nd, Joe, and it will -- it will 6 take place. 7 MR. HERRING: Our next Chamber board meeting 8 is not till October, so -- 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Be plenty of 10 time for that. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Mea culpa. I'm the one that 12 gave the language for the agenda item. My apologies, 13 gentlemen. 14 MR. HERRING: I used to make agendas. I 15 understand. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: The next item that we will go 17 to is -- let's go back to 3; consider, discuss, and approval 18 for the League of Women Voters to use one of the District 19 Courtrooms for voter education on September 20th, 2005, in 20 the evening. Ms. Pieper? 21 MS. PIEPER: Well, gentlemen, the League of 22 Women Voters evidently want to do a voter education, and 23 they need a place to do it at, so they have called and 24 checked. The courtroom is available that evening, and they 25 want to start at 7:00. I'm presuming they're wanting it a 9-12-05 44 1 little bit early to set up registration or whatever. I'm 2 not real sure. I did receive their agenda today, and it 3 seems like I'm most of their agenda. With the -- the 4 process of provisional ballots and voter ID and just voter 5 education stuff. So, I'll be here to open the building 6 or -- of course, it will probably be open at that point, but 7 I'll also be here to close. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Question. Is it just 9 for the League of Women Voters, or is it going to be open to 10 the community? 11 MS. PIEPER: I think it's open to the 12 community. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And have you cleared 14 this through the -- or someone has cleared this through the 15 court coordinator? 16 MS. PIEPER: Yes. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for approval. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 20 approval of the agenda item. Any question or discussion? 21 All in favor of that motion, signify by raising your right 22 hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 9-12-05 45 1 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. 2 MS. PIEPER: Thank you. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move on down to -- looks 4 like -- I don't see -- is Mr. Motheral going to be present, 5 Ms. Hardin? 6 MS. HARDIN: No, sir. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move to Item 11, 8 consider final plat of River Road Ranch in Precinct 4. 9 Ms. Hardin? 10 MS. HARDIN: And all of you know Mr. Odom is 11 on vacation this week. He approved all of the plats before 12 he left, and actually signed them. Any questions? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Help me understand. I 14 see this cute little map here, but I'm not real -- I'm not 15 real positive I know where this is. 16 MS. HARDIN: It's on Hunt River Road, 17 Mr. Chapman's property. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mr. Chapman's 19 property? 20 MS. HARDIN: Mm-ham. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: This is a case where 23 he transferred ownership of one of the lots, and it's not 24 quite a relative relationship, and it's cleaning that up. 25 MS. HARDIN: He gave one lot to a relative. 9-12-05 46 1 The next lot he gave to a godchild, and so that triggered a 2 replat, and he's come back to try to clear that up. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I know exactly where 4 it is. Used to -- the Marlboro horse used to live there. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is the one -- as I 6 recall, we looked at it and made a bunch of changes to try 7 to get it into compliance. 8 MS. HARDIN: Yes, sir. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The gentleman was in 10 before, wasn't he? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, not Mr. Chapman. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Somebody was. 13 MS. HARDIN: Pardon? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Somebody was in on 15 this before. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mr. Motheral was here, I 17 believe. 18 MS. HARDIN: Bruce Motheral. He's on 19 vacation today too. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I remember it. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I -- the way I see 22 it, they have done everything we asked them to do. 23 MS. HARDIN: Their road is completed. All 24 they need is their signs. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: O.S.S.F. has approved it? 9-12-05 47 1 MS. HARDIN: Yes, sir. All fees are paid and 2 all. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Where in the 4 process -- this is final plat approval? 5 MS. HARDIN: Yes, sir. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I move final plat 7 approval of River Road Ranch in Precinct 4. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 10 approval of the agenda item. Any question or discussion? 11 All in favor of that motion, signify by raising your right 12 hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's 17 move to Item 13, if we might. Set a public hearing for the 18 revision of plat for The Reserve of Falling Water, Lots 34 19 through 37, as set forth in Volume 7, Page 215, Plat 20 Records, located in Precinct 3. 21 MS. HARDIN: The only thing I have on that is 22 the little -- the sketch that you have, but really, all we 23 need today is to set the public hearing for the next -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're not really 25 changing -- you're just changing the configuration of lots 9-12-05 48 1 around that cul-de-sac. 2 MS. HARDIN: Right. My suggestion for the 3 court order date -- I mean for the public hearing was 4 October the 24th at 10 o'clock. Is that okay, Kathy? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to 8 set a public hearing for the revision of plat for The 9 Reserve of Falling Water, Lots 34 through 37, for 10 October 24th -- at 10 a.m.? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Any question or discussion on 13 the motion? All in favor of that motion, signify by raising 14 your right hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. I 19 will now recess the Commissioners Court meeting and I will 20 open a public hearing for the revision of plat for Whiskey 21 Ridge Ranches, Section 2, Lots 17 and 18, located in 22 Precinct 3. 23 (The regular Commissioners Court meeting was closed at 10:00 a.m., and a public hearing 24 was held in open court, as follows:) 25 \ 9-12-05 49 1 P U B L I C H E A R I N G 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there any member of the 3 public that wishes to be heard concerning the revision of 4 plat for Whiskey Ridge Ranches, Section 2, Lots 17 and 18, 5 located in Precinct 3? 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Seeing no one seeking 8 recognition or coming forward, I will close the public 9 hearing for the revision of plat for Whiskey Ridge Ranches, 10 Section 2, Lots 17 and 18. 11 (The public hearing was concluded at 10:01 a.m., and the regular Commissioners 12 Court meeting was reopened.) 13 - - - - - - - - - - 14 JUDGE TINLEY: And I will reconvene the 15 Commissioners Court meeting and call Item Number 6, Item 6 16 being consider the final revision of plat for Whiskey Ridge 17 Ranches, Section 2, Lots 17 and 18, located in Precinct 3. 18 MS. HARDIN: This is Mr. Lindley's homestead. 19 He's just asking that the two large lots be put into one, 20 which is 146 acres. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 24 approval of the agenda item. Any question or discussion? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Comment. I really 9-12-05 50 1 thought maybe somebody'd be in here from the shooting 2 facility to oppose that. That's a joke, Judge. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Just couldn't resist. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But wouldn't it be a 5 classic? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or 7 comments? All in favor of that motion, signify by raising 8 your right hand. 9 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's 13 move to Item Number 14, if we might, consider a resolution 14 of noncompliance pursuant to Section 3.04 of the Kerr County 15 Subdivision Rules and Regulations to be posted in the Deed 16 Records of Kerr County. Yes, ma'am? We're catching you 17 unprepared, 'cause I'm jumping around like a kangaroo? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Which one are you on? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: 14. 20 MS. HARDIN: This property is off of Town 21 Creek Road. I'm still not quite sure whether it's in 1 or 22 3. I was going to go back and look at a map, but forgot. 23 The first call we had on this was from Gary Kersey. The 24 second call we had on it was from Environmental Health, for 25 whether or not it met the current subdivision rules. I gave 9-12-05 51 1 -- asked Mr. Emerson to look at it, and he suggested that we 2 put it on the agenda for today. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can you -- can somebody 4 explain? 5 MS. HARDIN: It is a family division of 6 property; however, it is five lots, not four lots, as the 7 subdivision rules say it should be, and there's no road to 8 access the properties. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think this is a case 10 that -- I mean, it's state law. That exemption is under 11 state law, and which we adopted, and I don't see how we 12 can -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What exemption? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, if you divide it 15 under family members, it's four or fewer parts. This is 16 more than four. And also, the road issue would trigger 17 platting even if it was four, in my opinion. But, I mean, I 18 think the exemption that they're seeking, they didn't fall 19 under that exemption, so I would think it needs to be 20 platted. And the -- and the road -- there's a road that was 21 built or not built? 22 MS. HARDIN: No, there's a driveway that 23 meanders through it. I think there's a little drawing back 24 in the packet -- looks like this -- that a surveyor has 25 done. 9-12-05 52 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: When was this done? 2 MS. HARDIN: I'm not really quite sure. This 3 one says July 25th of this year. However, some of the 4 division goes back to earlier, but I'm not sure of the exact 5 date. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, this diagram 7 shows August of '95. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 9 MS. HARDIN: And then there's another one 10 down here that -- on this little one that I can't read the 11 date on it. Do you know? 12 MR. VOELKEL: I don't know where the property 13 is. 14 MS. HARDIN: Okay. 15 MR. VOELKEL: Not familiar with it. 16 MS. HARDIN: Delgadillo property off of Town 17 Creek. 18 MR. VOELKEL: No, ma'am. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, it's -- to me, 20 it's pretty straightforward. I mean, if there's -- they 21 need to plat it and they need to provide a -- you know, road 22 to county -- to subdivision standards to access all the 23 lots. 24 MS. HARDIN: Okay. Would you like to speak? 25 MR. EMERSON: Just to state you have the same 9-12-05 53 1 problem on this agenda item that you did a couple items ago. 2 I don't think you can pass an order under the wording. 3 MS. HARDIN: I thought I worded it the way 4 you asked me to. I'm sorry. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I mean, we can 6 still discuss it and give direction. But I don't -- I think 7 it's got to be brought into compliance. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, there are 9 definitely -- let's see, there's one, two, three, four, five 10 lots there. They're definitely all family; there's no 11 question of that. 12 MS. HARDIN: It seems to be. I haven't 13 talked to all of the family. The people that called to ask 14 if it met approval was a lending institute that was selling 15 it to another person with the same last name. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't think you 17 need a court order to -- to administer the subdivision 18 rules. You tell them they have to come into compliance. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And even -- I mean, the 20 issue on the road, you'd have to -- they can't divide it and 21 not give access, even if it's to a family member. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what it looks 23 like. That's what it looks like. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Even if it was four 25 people, you can't get to the back lots. There's no road to 9-12-05 54 1 it, so they still -- I mean, because -- 2 MR. EMERSON: If I can clarify, the court 3 order itself is not for enforcement of the subdivision 4 rules, necessarily. The court order is to place notice in 5 the public records that these lots are not in compliance 6 with the subdivision rules, and then we'll proceed on from 7 there. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: As proposed, it would not be. 9 MR. EMERSON: Correct, or as it exists. I 10 mean, I'm not sure how much of this has taken place. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we can do that, 13 but I think if the lending institution asks for us to sign 14 off on it -- is that what you're -- 15 MS. HARDIN: No. We -- we've notified them 16 that it was not in compliance. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 18 MS. HARDIN: But Mr. Emerson asked that we 19 put this resolution to put in the Deed Records. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. We'll put it back 21 on and say "consider and take action to approve resolution." 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: See, actually, I agree 23 with Number 4. I don't think that any action is required. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't either. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Subdivision rules are 9-12-05 55 1 there, and life goes on. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think what the County 3 Attorney is saying is just to put the lenders and everyone 4 else on notice that it's not -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand, to make 6 it cleaner. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But just put it back on. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything further on that 9 particular item from anyone on the Court? If not, we will 10 move to Item Number 7. I will recess the Commissioners 11 Court meeting and open a public hearing for the revision of 12 plat for Kerrville Country Estates, Section Two, Lot 34A, 13 located in Precinct 1. 14 (The regular Commissioners Court meeting was closed at 10:05 a.m., and a public hearing 15 was held in open court, as follows:) 16 P U B L I C H E A R I N G 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there any member of the 18 public who wishes to be heard concerning a revision of plat 19 for Kerrville Country Estates, Section Two, Lot 34A? 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Seeing no one rising to be 22 recognized or otherwise come forward, I will close the 23 public hearing for the revision of plat for Kerrville 24 Country Estates, Section Two, Lot 34A, and I will reconvene 25 the Commissioners Court meeting. 9-12-05 56 1 (The public hearing was concluded at 10:06 a.m., and the regular Commissioners 2 Court meeting was reopened.) 3 - - - - - - - - - - 4 JUDGE TINLEY: And we will move to Item 8, 5 which is consider approval of final revision of plat for 6 Kerrville Country Estates, Section Two, Lot 34A, located in 7 Precinct 1. 8 MS. HARDIN: This is -- go ahead. 9 MR. VOELKEL: I just want to make one 10 comment, and especially for Commissioners Baldwin. This is 11 an ETJ plat, so we have already been to the City of 12 Kerrville. The Planning Commission has approved the replat. 13 And, for Mr. Baldwin, his neighbor is Von Evans, just so 14 you'll know that. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. Tell me 16 about Zone X. 17 MR. VOELKEL: You see that on there 18 somewhere? Zone X means that it's outside of the 100-year 19 floodplain. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 21 MR. VOELKEL: It's in areas of 500-year or 22 greater. 23 MS. HARDIN: That's on the hill, correct. 24 MR. VOELKEL: Well, this one's actually kind 25 of down in the bottom, but it is out of the floodplain. 9-12-05 57 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 4 approval of the agenda item. Any question or discussion? 5 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 6 hand. 7 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 9 (No response.) 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No, I was voting 11 for, Judge. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, I thought you were. I 13 will now recess the Commissioners Court meeting and open a 14 public hearing for the revision of plat for Mosty Pecan 15 Grove, as shown in Volume 7, Page 295, Plat Records, located 16 in Precinct 2. 17 (The regular Commissioners Court meeting was closed at 10:08 a.m., and a public hearing 18 was held in open court, as follows:) 19 P U B L I C H E A R I N G 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there any member of the 21 public that wishes to be heard with respect to the revision 22 of a plat for Mosty Pecan Grove as shown in Volume 7, Page 23 295 of the Plat Records, located in Precinct 2? 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Seeing no one seeking 9-12-05 58 1 recognition or coming forward, I will close the public 2 hearing for the revision of plat for Mosty Pecan Grove, as 3 shown in Volume 7, Page 295 of the Plat Records, located in 4 Precinct 2, and I will reconvene the Commissioners Court 5 meeting. 6 (The public hearing was concluded at 10:09 a.m., and the regular Commissioners 7 Court meeting was reopened.) 8 - - - - - - - - - - 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Item 10, consider revision of 10 plat for Mosty Pecan Grove shown in Volume 7, Page 295, Plat 11 Records, located in Precinct 2. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can't do this one 13 either. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's see. J.J. Lane. 16 Where have I heard that before? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Been here before. 18 What do you got, Mr. Voelkel? 19 MR. VOELKEL: What we've got on this plat, of 20 course, you all remember this. When we -- the original plat 21 was approved with different lot sizes, and what we've done 22 for this replat is to move the lot line between the two 23 lots. There are still two lots, but I'm making Lot Number 2 24 a larger tract. And what we have done, with some direction 25 from the Court on previous meetings, we have added 10 feet 9-12-05 59 1 of additional right-of-way off of this property off of both 2 Lots 1 and 2, so that J.J. Lane, even though it's still a 3 private road, will now be a 40-foot right-of-way, as opposed 4 to a 30-foot right-of-way. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can't. Doesn't say it. 7 It says "consider." County Attorney's been -- it says 8 consider; it doesn't say -- 9 MR. EMERSON: I think you're stuck again. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I want to say 11 something about that. I appreciate Rex doing that. We need 12 to -- we need to clean our act up, and I appreciate him 13 holding our feet to the fire on this issue. Although we 14 don't like it at all. You need to understand that. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Only -- I don't disagree 16 with that. I do differ with Rex a little bit about the word 17 "consider." I think "consider" leaves room to move, but he 18 gave us a memo and took the dictionary definition and all 19 that, but that's fine. We can come back and do them, then. 20 MS. HARDIN: I apologize; I didn't know there 21 was a memo. 22 MR. EMERSON: Sounds like what I need to do 23 is send it to all the department heads, too. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: A standard inquiry, "You 25 didn't receive the memo?" 9-12-05 60 1 MS. HARDIN: No. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything further to be offered 3 by any member of the Court on that agenda item? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just let me say for 5 Don's benefit in the back, this is a language problem; has 6 nothing to do with -- with the -- the matter in terms of its 7 approval or disapproval. It's following the law in terms of 8 how we style agenda items, and we'll correct that at the 9 next meeting. 10 MR. VOELKEL: Excuse me, sir. Does that mean 11 it will not be approved for two more weeks? Is that -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 13 MR. VOELKEL: Okay, I just need to know. I 14 think they have a closing set up for this week. That will 15 probably, then, have to be postponed. I think they were 16 waiting for the replat to be finalized to transfer the title 17 of the property. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand. 19 MR. VOELKEL: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: When is the closing? 21 MR. VOELKEL: I was under the understanding 22 it was this week. I'll have to check on that. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you know, Don? 24 MR. EICHLER: Hasn't been finalized, but 25 tentatively set for Friday. 9-12-05 61 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's a tentative 2 date? Can it be -- could it be rescheduled? 3 MR. EICHLER: I'm sure it can. You'd have to 4 talk to the title company. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I apologize. There 6 was a styling -- 7 MR. VOELKEL: Just trying to get some 8 clarification. So, we'll come back for approval in two 9 weeks? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, second meeting. 11 MR. VOELKEL: I'm going to leave these with 12 you, if that's all right. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything further from any 14 member of the Court on that particular agenda item? Let's 15 move on to Item 12, consider a letter to Headwaters 16 Groundwater Conservation District concerning compliance to 17 Kerr County Subdivision Rules and standards. 18 MS. HARDIN: I'm sorry, what number? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: 13. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 12. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Excuse me, 12. 22 MS. HARDIN: I'm totally lost here. Have we 23 already done -- we've already done 13. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, we did 14 -- we did 25 13. This is 12. 9-12-05 62 1 MS. HARDIN: Oh, okay. We've had several 2 calls from the employees of Headwaters, and Gordon Morgan 3 called and asked if we would write a letter stating what it 4 is that the Commissioners Court would like for them to do 5 when they find a property that is in noncompliance. So, I 6 drafted this letter as an idea, and I'm hoping for any 7 suggestions you might have. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we're in the same 9 situation; we can look at it and discuss it, but we can't 10 vote on it. 11 MS. HARDIN: That's fine. 12 MR. EMERSON: I'm not sure Ms. Hardin's 13 looking for a vote. If I understood correctly, she's 14 looking for a little guidance. 15 MS. HARDIN: Looking for direction, whether 16 this is what you would like for me to -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, what I'm picking 18 up from the letter is that we're not asking them to deny any 19 permits or do anything other than to notify the County of a 20 problem? 21 MS. HARDIN: Yes, sir, that's it. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what I like. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that's what we 24 have -- what I think our intent is, is that we want to be 25 notified of it, but we don't want to stop development, stop 9-12-05 63 1 wells. I think we're getting on shaky ground -- or they are 2 if they start denying permits. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, absolutely. 4 MS. HARDIN: So the letter is -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I like the letter. 6 MS. HARDIN: You like the letter? Thank you 7 very much. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I think one suggestion. The 9 next-to-last paragraph dealing with the deed, supply a copy 10 of the deed. May be difficult to supply the original. 11 MS. HARDIN: Okay. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything further from any 13 member of the Court on that particular agenda item, Item 12? 14 Let's move to Item 15, if we might, consider and discuss 15 procedures for the paying and reporting of expenditures 16 involving penalties, fees, interest, or other costs 17 associated with the late payment or other administrative 18 system failures. Commissioner Nicholson. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What I'm seeking 20 here is a -- it says a court order; I might not have the 21 right language. What I'm seeking here is to either discover 22 that there's a process in place to keep these kinds of 23 errors from occurring in the future, or that we establish 24 one. And then the second thing I'm looking for -- I don't 25 think Tommy's here -- is to learn whether or not there are 9-12-05 64 1 other opportunities to make these same kinds of errors in 2 our county government pay -- system of paying. What we have 3 is a -- we have a series of four errors. It started back in 4 2002, I think it was -- yeah, January 2002, that resulted in 5 payments from Kerr County in excess of a total of more than 6 $2,000 that were neither budgeted nor approved as an 7 expenditure. And you get to that by the -- by the penalties 8 or interest or late fees or whatever it is; it's simply an 9 add-on to the payments that you're already making in the 10 retirement fund, so it seems to be a loophole in the process 11 of checks and balances on -- on spending. 12 And what I see is that it occurred in January 13 of 2002, and I presume the only officials that were aware of 14 them were the County Judge and the Treasurer. And I don't 15 know what action they might have taken, but it occurred 16 again the same month, so if they took any -- or next month, 17 so if they took any action, it was ineffective. And, again, 18 neither the Auditor or Commissioners Court were aware of it. 19 Occurred again later in September of 2002, so three times 20 that year, the same mistake being made, and apparently not 21 learning much from it. It occurred again in 2005, and it 22 came to the attention of the Auditor and the Court at that 23 time. So, what I'm asking is that -- two things. That we 24 get a court order that instructs paying officials to notify 25 the County Auditor when a -- when a procedural failure 9-12-05 65 1 occurs and spends money that's not authorized. And I'm also 2 asking the County Auditor to tell us if there are any other 3 situations in the bill-paying process where payments can be 4 made without either being budgeted or having the prior 5 approval of the County Commissioners Court. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you a 7 question. Who would you be ordering to report to the 8 Auditor? 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Whoever has the 10 information. Whoever causes the error to occur and an 11 expenditure to be made. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, okay. I agree 13 with you. I'm -- I can't quite see how that completely 14 works, but in prior -- prior to this -- you're talking about 15 in 2002. I never received any notification of anything 16 wrong; I can tell you that. Now, I think in your notations 17 here, the County Judge received a copy, and I'm assuming 18 that the County Judge automatically receives a copy from the 19 agency or -- retirement agency, whoever it might be, but I 20 don't know that the Commissioners receive -- I have not, or 21 the Auditor. But I -- so, in -- in this case here, you're 22 saying that a court order would order the County Treasurer 23 to notify the Auditor when there's late fees or any -- any 24 kind of change in the budget issue? 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes, sir. And 9-12-05 66 1 potentially any other official who could -- I don't know if 2 it would be the Tax Collector/Assessor that's making 3 payments to the state, or Environmental Health that makes 4 payments. Any other situation -- similar situated issue 5 would be reported. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- I mean, I 7 think I don't have any problem with -- the Treasurer is 8 here. But, procedurally, it seems to me that the Treasurer 9 and/or the Auditor -- no disbursal is made from any county 10 funds without their approval. I mean -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Both of them. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Both of them. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That was the case 14 here; there was no expenditure from -- direct expenditure 15 from county funds. It was a penalty levied by T.C.D.R.S. 16 against our account, so there wasn't -- it wasn't something 17 that turned up on the bill list. I understand where you're 18 going, Commissioner, and I'm -- I don't have any problem 19 with it, but this is the result of -- this is a little 20 different than the Auditor coming and reporting a late bill 21 to Bank of America and interest penalty for which he has to 22 draw down, for example. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: All I'm saying is 24 that other officials may have occasion that a similar kind 25 of error could create the same situation. I don't know 9-12-05 67 1 that. This may -- this may be the only -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sheriff has a comment. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You do have that 4 occurring, and some of it, gentleman, I -- my secretary 5 agrees, there needs to be a solution to this, because we 6 have cutoff dates for bills to be turned in to the Auditor, 7 and if a bill comes in right after that date, then it's the 8 next time before it comes up, and it's going to be a little 9 over a month before that bill actually comes up on the 10 agenda to be paid, at which time it's already late and you 11 may incur late fees. We have had that happen on telephone 12 bills and on gasoline bills, to where it didn't get -- get 13 through there, and that does occur. And I don't -- with the 14 schedule of events, the way they -- the Court and Auditor 15 schedule things -- 'cause Mindy's got to have time to get 16 all the bills entered. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But in those situations, 18 though, the bills -- even though there may be a late fee, 19 they're still presented to the court. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The bills are presented, 21 but there's still a late fee that the County's paying. And 22 it's kind of bad when you get a call from the gas company 23 saying why haven't they gotten paid yet. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They look at -- well, 9-12-05 68 1 it's because of the date it came in. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Is this worded in a 3 way that we can get a court order? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: County Attorney is shaking his 5 head. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: If I understand you, 8 Commissioner, what you're -- where you're going is, any time 9 there's any sort of an administrative fee or penalty or 10 surcharge imposed, irrespective of whether or not it takes a 11 direct expenditure of funds or whether or not it's charging 12 on something that's in existence, the Auditor needs to be 13 informed of it? 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes, sir. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's based on a 17 system we've got that says if you make a $5 expenditure 18 that's not budgeted, you got to bring it in here and get 19 approval for it, and I don't think we ought to be making 20 $2,000 expenditures. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't disagree with 22 that. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: You'll -- you'll place that on 24 the agenda? 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes, sir, for the 9-12-05 69 1 third time. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: With appropriate action 3 language? 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'll be back, and if 5 I'm not on my deathbed, I'll be in here and present it 6 again. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's go to Item 18, if 8 we might. Consider approval of the interlocal agreement 9 between Kerr 9-1-1 and Kerr County. I gather the -- the 10 approval aspect of that agenda item will allow us to go 11 forward; is that correct, Mr. County Attorney? 12 MR. EMERSON: Yes, sir. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Pardon? 14 MR. EMERSON: Yes, sir. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I thought I'd go there first, 16 rather than wandering through the woods and finding out that 17 we had to come back. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, this -- 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Amerine? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is -- yeah, 21 I'll -- Mr. Amerine, start walking this way. 22 MR. AMERINE: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The -- we've been back 24 and forth with -- with the County Attorney a couple of 25 times. Mr. Amerine wrote up an agreement, and -- and Rex 9-12-05 70 1 worked on it and came back, and we worked on it and went 2 back, and now this is the -- the one that has been approved 3 by both parties. And it's -- it simply says -- bottom line 4 is that 9-1-1 will continue their services and act basically 5 as our agent at no cost. And it looks like a good agreement 6 to me. Mr. Amerine? 7 MR. AMERINE: I think you said it as well as 8 I could. It's essentially -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm not sure about 10 that. 11 MR. AMERINE: Well, thank you. It's 12 essentially just an agreement that states what we've 13 currently been doing on behalf of the county for rural 14 addressing since the effort started in earnest in 2003. 15 What our concern was, as I stated last time I visited with 16 y'all, I think the interlocal agreement does the appropriate 17 legal transfer of authority from the county Road and Bridge 18 down to our organization. And we did adopt quite a bit of 19 language from the version that the County Attorney put out. 20 For instance, if the Court decided to come to 9-1-1 for a 21 special project, then that language is in there for sitting 22 down and setting up a special agreement compensation, if it 23 was due. So, I -- I'll answer any questions about the 24 agreement, if you have any. But -- 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I just have one. 9-12-05 71 1 MR. AMERINE: Yes, sir? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is the Force Majeure 3 clause new, or was that in there in the old agreement? 4 MR. AMERINE: We never had an agreement prior 5 to this one being proposed. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Then it's good to 7 have a Force Majeure clause in, based on what we know that 8 can happen and is currently happening. 9 MR. AMERINE: Right. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move approval of the 11 agreement. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I second the motion. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 14 approval of the agreement. Any question or discussion? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just want to make a 16 comment, Judge. This is one of those issues, or one of 17 those areas in government that we need to remember where we 18 were three or four years ago and where we are today. We 19 have come light-years. Mr. Amerine and his board has 20 brought -- brought the 9-1-1 system into compliance and 21 where we're supposed to be, and -- and just a tremendous 22 amount of distance that we've come in the last few years, 23 and I wanted to say thank you to Mr. Amerine for that. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I would 25 certainly echo that, with thanks. 9-12-05 72 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 2 discussion? All in favor of that motion, signify by raising 3 your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We're 8 about to 10:30, so why don't we take a recess for about 15 9 minutes. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Works for me. 11 (Recess taken from 10:26 a.m. to 10:43 a.m.) 12 - - - - - - - - - - 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to 14 order, and back in session at our Commissioners Court 15 meeting. We will go to Item 16; consider, discuss, and take 16 appropriate action on the library contract with the City of 17 Kerrville. Commissioner Nicholson? 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Looking for my 19 library contract. I met with the Interim City Manager and 20 the Assistant County -- Assistant City Attorney and the 21 Library Director, and we talked about some issues, and then 22 I believe the Assistant City Attorney and County Attorney 23 got together and redrafted a contract that -- that 24 approved -- that would meet their approval as to form, and 25 we got those contracts this morning. And they don't -- I'm 9-12-05 73 1 talking -- I said "contracts." I'm talking about library, 2 and then later we'll talk about Animal Control. The library 3 contract doesn't appear to contain the provisions that we 4 approved. For example, I don't find the $6,000 5 administrative fee in Item 6. I find that 60 percent 6 payment, but -- 7 MR. EMERSON: Talking about the library or 8 Animal Control? 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Oh, I'm sorry, I got 10 that on the wrong page. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The wrong contract. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Here's library, 13 okay. Changes from what we talked about earlier that have 14 to do with the constitution of the Library Advisory Board. 15 I think we talked about a commissioner and a councilman and 16 seven members, and now this has got a commissioner and a 17 councilman and five members. I'm okay with that number. 18 The -- the earlier contract that we drafted and approved 19 said that the at-large members -- that is, the members other 20 than the councilman and commissioner -- would be nominated 21 by the councilman and commissioner and submitted to the two 22 government bodies for approval. And this one has -- we 23 talked about these issues. I didn't necessarily agree to 24 it. It was -- it was on the table when we quit talking. 25 Two board members shall be residents of Kerr County and 9-12-05 74 1 shall be appointed by the Commissioners Court. I'm a little 2 sensitive about that language. Maybe I know what it means, 3 but -- but everybody that lives in this county are residents 4 of Kerr County, including the City Councilmembers and the 5 people that live in -- in Kerrville. If they mean by that 6 language that they shall be residents of Kerr County and not 7 reside in the city of Kerrville, then that's a little bit 8 different thing. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the -- that 10 language needs to be cleaned up on C and D, 'cause I agree 11 with that. And based on the -- you know, the way I look at 12 it, I really think it should be switched a little bit based 13 on that, because, I mean, I -- it's almost like it's forcing 14 the Commissioners Court to not pick residents of the city of 15 Kerrville, and I disagree with that, because there's -- I 16 mean, just by the way it's broken out, I think the 17 Commissioners Court's probably responsible for three members 18 and the City two, because our constituency is far larger 19 than theirs, and ours are also the City's. But, anyway, 20 it's not -- 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I have constituents 22 in the city limits of Kerrville that I might want to 23 nominate. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, the history of 25 it is that that has happened. 9-12-05 75 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it's just the way 4 it's worded. I think it needs -- the distinction should be 5 more -- you know, I'd like to try to get a resident from the 6 county and a resident from the city, but -- as opposed to 7 who appoints them. 8 MR. EMERSON: May I comment on that one 9 point? The reason the wording says Kerr County is that 10 leaves it wide-open to anybody in Kerr County. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You could read it 12 that way. But very often, Rex, when we talk to -- they talk 13 about their constituents and our constituents. And they 14 don't have any constituents that aren't constituents of one 15 of these four Commissioners. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Also, another 17 question comes to mind, Commissioner -- and I don't know if 18 it was referenced in your discussions, but historically, 19 that advisory board has had one person who represented the 20 Friends of the Library organization. Would it be your 21 understanding, then, that -- that that would be one of the 22 City's three appointments, or what do we know about that? 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Nothing. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just curious. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Was there a reason in 9-12-05 76 1 your discussion why the City felt they should have three 2 appointees and the Court two? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 'Cause they own the 4 place. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't think that 6 was in our discussion, but that's probably a good 7 assumption. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would be the 9 only reason I could offer. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have not read through 11 it as thoroughly as I should have, but the question I have 12 is -- I know at first, the operational expenses were split 13 fifty-fifty. Does it address non -- or I guess capital 14 improvement-type items, repair or things of that nature, as 15 to how they should be paid for? Because -- 16 MR. EMERSON: Paragraph 8. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Eight? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Eight. 19 MR. EMERSON: Yes, sir, the last sentence. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which was a bone of 21 contention, I always thought. I'm glad that's clarified. 22 'Cause we were -- in the past, we have provided 50 percent 23 or more of elevators to go in a building that is not owned 24 by Kerr County. We have provided significant funding for 25 air-conditioners to cool a building that doesn't belong to 9-12-05 77 1 Kerr County, so I'm glad that's clarified. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do we have a budget? 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes -- oh, no, we 4 don't have a budget. We have budgeted an amount of money. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. I mean, and I'm 6 wondering -- I mean, historically, they have put capital 7 items in their budget that we've paid for. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I asked that 9 question, and yes, there are some capital items. It may not 10 be important to us, since we've specified how much we're 11 going to pay. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, but -- and that 13 gets me to the point of, this contract kind of undoes that 14 because we've specified an amount. But the contract says we 15 pay half of the operation expenses without any input into 16 it? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Excluding capital. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Excluding capital. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: This does not 20 provide that we pay half. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, it does. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, it doesn't. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It provides that we 24 pay an amount approved by the Commissioners Court. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, it says in Paragraph 9-12-05 78 1 9, the parties agree that the proposed operational expenses 2 for fiscal year shall be divided -- or evenly divided 3 between the parties. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's unacceptable. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It goes on to say, 6 and shall determine amount that each party shall budget. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, that's 8 contradictory, then. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah, it's 10 contradictory. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me throw out something 12 else here. By implication, I think in Paragraph 8, where it 13 excludes capital expenses for the library, are there any 14 other expenses that would not fall under either operating or 15 capital expenses for the history center? Cause -- 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: History center? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Why do we even mention the 18 history center in here? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 'Cause there's 20 personnel costs there, Judge, and that's never been a part 21 of the library, as such. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's an extra -- 24 the funding for which came about totally out of the realm of 25 either budget, I believe. And there are -- there are 9-12-05 79 1 personnel expenses in the day-to-day operation of that 2 history center. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But -- and this is why I 4 have a problem with never having a budget from them that we 5 can look at. The -- as I understand it, the library manager 6 oversees the history center. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But yet we're asked to 9 pay half of that salary, you know. I mean, this contract, 10 to me, is meaningless until we can get a copy of their 11 budget. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, another thing 13 I object to is the -- 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good point. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- bylaws. They're 16 weak. They're so weak, you might as well not have an 17 advisory board. What we approved and what we intend is the 18 Library Advisory Board, rather like the Airport Board -- not 19 the same, but same direction -- will provide oversight of 20 the operations, and it would be at the strategic level; 21 planning, budgeting, policies, not day-to-day operations or 22 scheduling of people to work or anything like that. But 23 that -- and that the Library Board will develop the budget 24 as part of their strategy and policy planning, and present 25 it to the -- to the governing bodies. 9-12-05 80 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I kind of like 2 that direction, but I think -- beyond that, I think if 3 you -- well, I'd like to get to that, where the board is 4 directly in control. I think there's an intermediate step, 5 if the City's willing to go down there, and they may not, is 6 to do it more like the -- have a management agreement 7 between the library and the City, and the City provides the 8 services. And this -- I'm not so sure that's really real 9 helpful. I think the advisory board needs to have, 10 certainly, some budget input. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, that's a point 12 I wanted to raise, too. The language change is intended 13 to -- to deal with a concern that the Commissioner raised 14 and I raised in the past, but it really doesn't, because 15 historically, the Library Advisory Board has never been a 16 part of the budget process. That was handled -- that has 17 been handled directly between the Library Manager -- 18 Director, whatever he's called, and a representative of City 19 staff, Finance Department. And the Library Board is "hear 20 no evil, see no evil, do no evil." They don't know about it 21 until -- in the past, they never even saw a copy of it, so 22 we're gaining on it in that regard, and I've seen a copy of 23 it, but it's all ex post facto, all after the fact. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Commissioner, what I 25 hope to see is that we would establish this new Library 9-12-05 81 1 Advisory Board, and it would be staffed with people who care 2 about literacy, but also care about good business practices. 3 And the next budget period, before this time next year, they 4 would have participated with -- and that includes a 5 Councilman and a Commissioner -- participated in the budget 6 process and would have a budget ready for us and the City 7 Council that they can defend and rationalize. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm with you. It's 9 an improvement; there's no question about it. I'm not being 10 critical. It is an improvement in that regard. I'm just 11 saying, historically, it's never happened that way. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No, you're right. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And Article 10 takes 14 care of until we get all of the events -- everything worked 15 out, some of the sticking points, 'cause that keeps the old 16 budget in place until a new one is drafted -- approved. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I guess, you 18 know, my biggest concern is not -- it's -- you can't look at 19 this document without looking at the budget with it. 20 Because I need -- I mean, you just have got -- I've got to 21 see how they're dividing things out, based on working with 22 the City on some other contracts recently as to how they're 23 proportioning their costs, what they're considering 24 operational costs. And until -- you know, I really think it 25 almost has to be -- has to be a part of it. 9-12-05 82 1 MR. EMERSON: May I provide some insight on 2 that? And I may or may not be correct, but this is what was 3 discussed between Ilse Bailey and myself, was that it was 4 our understanding, through direct and indirect 5 communications, that the County was going to budget 300,000, 6 period, despite the fact that the City wanted 400-something, 7 and this contract was created basically blind to this year's 8 budget. Now, it does allow specifically for next year, that 9 your library board, which theoretically would have a 10 councilman and a commissioner on it, would provide input to 11 the budget itself. And that budget that's -- that's 12 prepared in cooperation with the Library Director is what 13 would be presented to City Council and the Commissioners 14 Court. So, you will have direct input into next year's 15 library budget based on this contract, but where you are 16 right now is you're kind of stuck under the old contract 17 that was originally formulated in 1991. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So -- so there's no 19 reason to approve this budget. I mean, I guess we could do 20 this after October 1st, 'cause then it's for the next year. 21 MR. EMERSON: You mean this contract? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It has nothing to do with 23 the current -- with the operation of the 'O5-'06 year. It 24 -- I mean, with the -- I guess the development of the '06 -- 25 the budget for '05-'06, but it doesn't go into how the 9-12-05 83 1 '06-'07 budget will be put together. 2 MR. EMERSON: The contract does. The old one 3 doesn't allow for that. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 5 MR. EMERSON: But you're either approving 6 this money under the old contract or a new contract. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it seems -- 8 MR. EMERSON: I don't think you can just 9 gratuitously give the City $300,000 without having some kind 10 of formal arrangement. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, I agree with 12 that. In fact, if we don't have a contract, I don't think 13 we should make our first monthly payment. I may also say 14 that in my conversations with the Interim City Manager, our 15 approach to saying the library may be too expensive and we 16 need to analyze those costs may be taking place. He told me 17 he was considering recommending to the City Council that 18 they set a $600,000 budget, and the Library Manager find a 19 way to meet that budget. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess I'm -- I'm a 21 little confused now as to this contract doesn't -- is not 22 for the '05-'06 budget? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes. 24 MR. EMERSON: Yes. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It is. 9-12-05 84 1 JUDGE TINLEY: As proposed. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I've never seen that 3 budget to start with. And based on the way I read it, it's 4 contradictory, because it talks about us paying half of the 5 operational costs, and yet we've -- because we had to move 6 on with our budget process, and we haven't received anything 7 from the City, we just blindly budgeted 300,000. Well, 8 that's potentially contrary, and I don't see how we can 9 enter into a contract that says we're going to pay half of 10 the operational costs when we don't even know what the 11 operational costs are, and our budget's set. 12 MR. EMERSON: The only other -- other than 13 what I just told you, the only discussion we had to that 14 effect was I specifically asked, if -- if the Commissioners 15 Court approves 300,000, and their operational budget is 16 significantly more than that, is the City going to 17 immediately start screaming "breach of contract"? And for 18 that, I was told no, that they were -- they were under the 19 understanding that the County was going to budget 300,000 20 maximum, period, and similar to what Commissioner Nicholson 21 just told you, that the City was going to budget accordingly 22 and basically tell the library to deal with it. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, why don't we add a 24 paragraph in here that says that? That says that for the 25 '05-'06 year, the County's budgeting this, you know, 9-12-05 85 1 300,000. The City's going to budget whatever they're going 2 to budget. And then, for future years, it's handled under 3 the, you know, terms of Paragraphs 8 and 9. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It does seem in 5 Paragraph 9, Rex, the second -- the second sentence in that 6 paragraph, is -- is in conflict with the first sentence. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes. 8 MR. EMERSON: Are you talking about in 9 Paragraph 9? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. The first 11 sentence says, We agree the proposed operational expenses 12 for the upcoming fiscal year shall be evenly divided between 13 the parties, and this shall determine the amount of each 14 party's budget and so forth. Then it goes on to say, second 15 sentence, The County's approved budgeted amount shall be 16 paid by Commissioners Court -- blah, blah, blah -- in 12 17 equal installments. 18 MR. EMERSON: Correct. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We could approve less 20 than -- than what is half of the budget. As a matter of 21 fact, we probably have. 22 MR. EMERSON: That's correct. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or are about to. 24 Which suggests to me that sentence two is in conflict with 25 the intent of the first sentence. 9-12-05 86 1 MR. EMERSON: All sentence two designates is 2 how you're going to pay your budgeted amount. Instead of 3 one lump sum, you're paying in one-twelfth each month. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, it's the first 5 sentence. 6 MR. EMERSON: The first sentence? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The problem. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But it's the first 9 three, four, five, six words, "the County's approved 10 budgeted amount." That's what gets me. The County's 11 approved budgeted amount. Then it tells how we're going to 12 pay it. That can be in conflict with the first, because 13 it's not -- may not be 50 percent of what's been sent to us. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The problem is, 15 Commissioner, the second sentence is my language, and the 16 first sentence was superimposed on it. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So -- 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The first sentence 19 determines -- the first sentence determines how much is 20 budgeted by each. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: And that shall determine the 23 amount budgeted. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I like the 25 direction we're going. I'm not trying to throw a roadblock 9-12-05 87 1 up; I'm just trying to get the language to work. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No, it's not a 3 simple contract. Again, I saw it this morning, same time 4 you did, and I want to go back and address the -- the issue 5 of not having a budget. The fact that we haven't seen a 6 budget is not an indication of negligence on the part of the 7 County. We -- as you recall, we offered to follow the 8 contract where -- where a County Commissioner gets together 9 with the Library Director and develop the budget. They said 10 no, we're not going to follow the contract. That was 11 followed up by the Library Board trying to be more proactive 12 and help out, writing a letter to the City and saying the 13 City and the County need to get together as required by the 14 contract, and we'd like to participate in that and help you 15 out. That was rejected also. So, both us and the Library 16 Board have made a good effort, going back over several 17 months, to try to develop a contract that we could -- I mean 18 a budget that we could look at and understand. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess I look at it -- 20 until the City is willing to give us a copy of the budget, 21 we're -- we won't fund it. We can't blindly just put money 22 out when we don't have a contract and when we don't have a 23 budget. I mean -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, we can approve 25 a number in our budget, but just not make any payments until 9-12-05 88 1 we get this thing set. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And we've done that based 3 on the, you know, best information we had, which was none. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, but the first 5 sentence in Number 9, though, won't -- won't fly -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- with that. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's why I said -- 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's my problem. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- we need a new 11 paragraph for this year, and then this is a contract for 12 future budget years. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How can do you that? 14 How can you plug in that one year number and then remove it 15 after the -- 16 MR. EMERSON: We can add a qualifying 17 paragraph for this year only. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, that's what we 19 want to do. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What is the 21 termination clause of the existing contract? Current one 22 that we're operating under. 23 MR. EMERSON: Let me find it in here. It 24 shall continue automatically for each successive year unless 25 either party gives notice in writing by June 1st of any year 9-12-05 89 1 that they want to terminate the agreement at the end of the 2 then current year or renegotiate said contract. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that notice was 4 given, correct? Yeah, notice was given by the Court. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: They quarrel with 6 the form that we gave it a little bit, but it was given path 7 forward on this. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have a question on 9 that, before we get -- Rex says we haven't given notice. 10 MR. EMERSON: I don't think the letter that 11 was sent would hold up if it went to litigation for notice. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: For what reason? 13 MR. EMERSON: It's not specific. Let me find 14 it in here. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did you write the 16 letter? 17 MR. EMERSON: No. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Whoa, whoa, whoa. 19 Which letter are we talking about, the one you sent? 20 Commissioner? 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think it's a 22 letter from Judge Tinley. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 'Cause we sent one -- 24 we sent one two years ago, and then another one. 25 MR. EMERSON: Well, if you want to get into 9-12-05 90 1 technical legal terms, the problem you get into, and we 2 haggled over this for a while, is we went back and forth on 3 letters that went out two years ago, the material breach of 4 contract with Ron Patterson's letter, but didn't -- they 5 basically have an argument that we waived it when we turned 6 right around and funded the agreement again. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess -- I mean, I -- 8 you know, I'm frustrated that the City doesn't -- is not -- 9 I see no attempt from the City trying to work with the 10 County. We want to fund a library. We want to have a 11 library, but the City won't give us the basic information 12 that we require under Open Records requests, which I think 13 is a ridiculous way for us to have to operate with the City, 14 is to file Open Records requests, and I don't want to go 15 down that road. I mean, I don't know -- I don't understand 16 why we're having a problem on this contract. We want to 17 fund it. We want input. We want to know what's going on. 18 We want to have a contract. We want a library, but the City 19 says no, basically. I'm just -- I don't understand. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: How -- let's talk 21 about path forward. I don't see that we need to take any 22 action on this contract we negotiated. Further action is 23 needed to clean up this contract to bring it up to being 24 acceptable to us, and to have a budget that we can look at 25 in connection with approving it. So, it seems like the path 9-12-05 91 1 forward is more negotiations. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the copy -- and, Rex, 3 is there a formal way that we should request the budget? 4 Maybe we haven't done that properly up till now. 5 MR. EMERSON: I think you've requested it 6 every way short of standing on your head. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I thought we had. I just 8 wanted to make sure that we've requested the budget 9 properly. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Commissioner, have you 11 seen their budget, the City's library budget? 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No. At a meeting of 13 the Library Advisory Board maybe three months ago, the -- 14 after they refused to follow the contract and meet with us, 15 the Library Director handed out a work -- a stack of 45 or 16 50 pages of worksheets that the City hadn't seen. It wasn't 17 complete, didn't have any rationalization or anything. So, 18 that's what I've seen. Doesn't have any totals on it. I 19 can't tell you without going through 50 pages of information 20 and total it up how much money we're -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Was there a 22 cost-of-living adjustment and things of that nature included 23 in it? 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So you have not seen a 9-12-05 92 1 budget. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: General Schellhase, 4 how in the world does the taxpaying public keep from getting 5 outraged over this? I mean, how does -- 6 GENERAL SCHELLHASE: Commissioner, why are 7 you asking me? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 'Cause you live next 9 door to the library. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Because you live next 11 door to the library. (Laughter.) Thank you, Bill. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Does any member of the Court 13 have anything further to offer in connection with Item 16? 14 Let's move to Item 17. Consider, discuss, and take 15 appropriate action on the Animal Control Services Contract 16 with the City of Kerrville. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is kinder and 18 gentler? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Must be. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Marginally. I've 21 got at least -- and, again, I saw this the same time you did 22 this morning, so I haven't studied this as carefully as I'd 23 like to. I immediately see two issues. Under Paragraph 6, 24 I can't tell what the administrative costs are in that 25 number. I think the $136,000 and change is the 60 percent. 9-12-05 93 1 MR. EMERSON: They're built in. 2 MS. MITCHELL: They're built in. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: They're built into 4 that? 5 MR. EMERSON: Yes, sir. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay, that satisfies 7 that. And then under -- I think it goes under Part 5, the 8 contract -- draft contract we submitted for approval had at 9 least two things in it that are no longer in here. One is 10 that we're not going to pick up -- provide dead animal 11 service in the city of Kerrville, and the second thing is it 12 excluded some provisions of their animal control order -- 13 they don't call it an order. What do they call it? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ordinance. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Ordinance that we 16 were not going to administer. 17 MR. EMERSON: The exclusions are still there. 18 It's just they've changed all their ordinances, and it's in 19 1.b. Instead of stating numbers, it says except chickens, 20 pigeons, livestock, and rabbits, which is the same animals 21 that were in the exclusions. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Where is it? Under 23 5.b.? 24 MR. EMERSON: 1.b., front page. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Did you tell me they 9-12-05 94 1 approved a new ordinance? 2 MR. EMERSON: That's what I was told, is that 3 their new ordinance was Chapter 18, and that was the 4 corresponding reference. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. That refers 6 to a document that's been in existence for a year or so and 7 hasn't been approved. There's a whole lot in there that 8 we're not going to -- to enforce. They got pooper-scooper 9 laws; they got all kinds of issues that we're not -- not 10 staffed to enforce, so I don't think this -- I don't think 11 Part 1 is sufficient, either. It doesn't include the dead 12 animal issue. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How many dead animals do 14 we pick up in the city? 15 MS. ROMAN: I didn't bring that with me, 16 but -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, just a ballpark. 18 MS. ROMAN: We don't pick up any in the 19 county, all -- any and all dead animals. I can't give you 20 the exact amount; I didn't bring that with me. Rex, I faxed 21 that to you the other day. Do you, by any chance, have that 22 with you? 23 MR. EMERSON: I think it's 365. 24 MS. ROMAN: It was in the 300's. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are those mostly big 9-12-05 95 1 animals or little animals? 2 MS. ROMAN: Large animals, deer. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess -- you know, I 4 really don't have a problem, unless -- Janie may have a 5 problem with picking up dogs, cats, small animals, but I 6 think there's another issue when you get into wild animals. 7 It's one thing picking up pets, another thing picking up 8 wild animals. Pets, I can see that as being a part of this 9 department, but this is not a wildlife department. It's a 10 -- it's -- basically, it's a -- 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So you want language 12 that says "domestic animals"? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, if they took it 14 out altogether, I would say -- to me, that makes a lot more 15 sense. I mean, I just think that -- 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Commissioner, with 17 me it's a matter -- I agree with you on the big animals; we 18 don't need to be lifting or handling those, but it's a 19 matter of how you operate more efficiently out in the 20 county. We got Road and Bridge, we got TexDOT out there 21 doing these kind of things. In the city, they've got the 22 Road Department that is around the city all the time. It's 23 a burden -- time-consuming burden on us to go out and look 24 for these, to even pick up these small animals, but I'm good 25 to go either way. 9-12-05 96 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, it's not that big 2 of an issue if it's just a little bit of domestic animals. 3 I notice -- I still have the safety and the health concern, 4 some of those concerns, but also, you know, the City seems 5 to pretty much go along with the rest of our modifications. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Are you okay with 7 that, Janie? 8 MS. ROMAN: That's fine. Because the 9 majority of domestic animals are -- are pets, what we 10 normally do is we normally -- if they're the property 11 owner's pet, then it's their responsibility to dispose of 12 the animal, not ours. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that the city's 14 ordinance, or is that just our policy? Or is it -- 15 MS. ROMAN: That's been the -- the agreement 16 between the -- I mean, it's not in the ordinance, but that's 17 an agreement that we all came to years ago. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We probably ought to -- 19 that ought to be addressed. I mean -- 20 MS. ROMAN: That -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- in the contract, it 22 seems to me. 23 MS. ROMAN: I just don't see picking up dead 24 animals as a Rabies and Animal Control issue. Our main 25 priority is rabies and animal control. A dead animal does 9-12-05 97 1 not fall under that. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's true, too. 3 MR. EMERSON: Just need your guidance on what 4 the limits are going to be. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Say it again? 6 MR. EMERSON: Need to know, I mean, if we're 7 not picking up any dead animals. Are we not picking up 8 nondomesticated dead animals? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess the -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd like to know what 11 we have done in the past. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Roman? 13 MS. ROMAN: I did speak with Ilse Friday, as 14 a matter of fact, and she told me that that was not an 15 issue; that they had someone that would -- that was willing 16 to pick up dead animals, period. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And that was my 18 understanding also. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Then take it out 20 of the contract. I think Janie's right that that's not a 21 function -- it's not a purpose of the Animal Control 22 Department. I think that's very valid. 23 MS. ROMAN: Believe it or not, it does take 24 up a lot of our time. A whole lot of our time. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We're stretched 9-12-05 98 1 pretty thin on time. We got a lot of territory to cover. 2 And it seems that, as a matter of efficiency, they could 3 handle this issue easier, less expensively than we can, and 4 down the road we won't have to be adding trucks and staff to 5 take care of them. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It seems that the only 7 issue other than that, then, is the -- the ordinance -- 8 well, we don't -- even if they -- I guess you need to find 9 out if Chapter 18 on 1.b., if that's been approved by 10 Council. But we're not required to do anything else under 11 that. I mean -- 12 MR. EMERSON: It's easy enough to go back in 13 and take the specific language out of the old ordinance and 14 just put that in there as exclusions. And it's -- I don't 15 mean this bad, but it's their problem to relate it to the 16 correct ordinance. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess what I'm saying 18 is that if they have adopted a new ordinance and their 19 intent is that we enforce that ordinance, we need to know 20 what that ordinance says. Because if there's things that -- 21 as Commissioner Nicholson is saying, that we need to do, 22 that's not contemplated under our agreement. So if they're 23 referring to -- you know, but I think that that needs to be 24 understood by both sides, as to what ordinance -- 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 9-12-05 99 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- they've approved. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. So we're sort 3 of in the same place on this contract with the other one. 4 We need further discussions and negotiations. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But we're a lot closer on 6 this one. This is basically -- 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah, just got the 8 one issue. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- just one issue. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, the scope of our 11 services. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Scope of services, 13 exactly. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other member of the Court 15 have anything further to offer on that particular item? 16 Let's move to Item 19, consider, discuss, and take 17 appropriate action to authorize an expenditure not to exceed 18 $5,000 for professional services to meet the requirements of 19 Texas Water Development Board for a Regional Wastewater 20 Facilities Planning Grant for community of Center Point. 21 Commissioner Williams. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Judge. As 23 I noted in my agenda item statement to the Court, our first 24 application for T.W.D.B. was not funded because, 25 essentially, they ran out of funds in the small communities 9-12-05 100 1 and the hardship programs, and the Texas Legislature has not 2 refunded those two programs or given authorization to fund 3 those two programs for the next biennium. Where that puts 4 us is applying for revolving funds. And, basically, the 5 sense of all that's included in the -- in the backup 6 material, but the one that's entitled Page 1 of 4, Texas -- 7 T.W.D.B. Regional Water Supply and Wastewater Facilities 8 Planning Program, that's in the back part of your handout, 9 and the Water Development Board does offer grants to 10 political subdivisions of the state for studies and analyses 11 to evaluate and determine the most feasible alternatives to 12 meet regional water supply and wastewater facility needs. 13 What we have before us is a need to go 14 forward with preliminary planning and -- and design, 15 engineering and design and all that stuff, a lot of which 16 was done for us in the original application by Tetra Tech on 17 a pro bono basis. As I noted to you in the statement, the 18 amount of the work that was done had a value of about 19 $7,200. The rules have changed, however, for the 20 application, and it now requires that we have an engineer's 21 seal, and my understanding from most engineers, you do not 22 get that seal without -- without some support -- financial 23 support for them to do that. And a lot of other things are 24 included in it, and I'm asking the Court to help me move 25 this forward for a second application to the T.W.D.B. 9-12-05 101 1 Last month, about the third week of last 2 month, I met with representatives of the T.W.D.B., and they 3 encouraged us to come back with this application, 'cause 4 this is the beginning of the new biennium and they have 5 plenty of funding, and they like the project. And the 6 amount of dollars that we're asking for in terms of a grant 7 is about $62,000, and in terms of their budget and their 8 ability to fund, that's a piece of cake. But I have to get 9 certain things done. The County doesn't have the ability to 10 do these things; it requires an engineer's seal, et cetera, 11 et cetera, et cetera. And that's what this is all about. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is -- is this the only 13 step that we will -- that we participate in financially? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is the only step 15 at this juncture. This gets our application before us. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So that we know what 18 the scope of the project is and what the overall costs are 19 going to be. I'm not asking for anything beyond what's 20 necessary to get the application back to T.W.D.B. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And -- 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's $5,000 23 budgeting? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Up to $5,000. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Do we have the 9-12-05 102 1 budget? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It is -- it is -- 3 there are funds available in 10-401-486 under Professional 4 Services -- I believe Nondepartmental, Tommy? And in the 5 current budget. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is a -- this comes 7 under our current budget? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir, comes under 9 the current budget. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have -- as it turns 11 out, the former project manager for Region J has just moved 12 into this department and is going to be handling this, and 13 he -- he sent me an e-mail, unsolicited by me, that he is 14 looking forward to working with us on this project. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I met with him -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that's a good 17 indication. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He was one of the 19 three people we met with, and he was very forthcoming that 20 he thought it was a good project. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So -- 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would move approval 23 of the budget request for expenditure of up to $5,000 for a 24 design of preliminary engineering to satisfy the 25 requirements of a second application to T.W.D.B. for funding 9-12-05 103 1 for the Center Point wastewater project. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 4 approval of the agenda item, the expenditure not to exceed 5 $5,000. Any question or discussion on the motion? All in 6 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 7 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 9 (No response.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll move to Item 20, 13 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to appoint a 14 board of directors for oversight of the Kerr County Juvenile 15 Detention Facility, as provided for in Human Resources Code, 16 Title 3, Facilities and Services for Children, Chapter 63, 17 Residential Facilities for Certain Delinquent Children, 18 Paragraph 63.004, Board of Trustees, Single-County Facility. 19 Commissioner Williams. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: As the Court 21 remembers, in a special session with the Juvenile Probation 22 Board, we had agreed that our operation of that facility 23 would come under Title 3, Chapter 63 of the Texas Human 24 Resources Code. That code, as I have provided to you, 25 requires certain actions by Commissioners Court, one of 9-12-05 104 1 which is to appoint a board of trustees. That board of 2 trustees can be either the Commissioners Court, minimum of 3 five, or it can be, I think, a combination of Commissioners 4 Court and persons from the general electorate, or it could 5 be up to nine people, all of whom are not members of 6 Commissioners Court. My personal preference would be for it 7 to be a board either solely of Commissioners Court, or 8 adding some members of the general public to assist us in 9 that action in governance required. The board makes rules 10 to govern, and it holds special meetings. It's subject to 11 the provisions of the Open Records and Open Meetings Act. 12 The board of trustees is responsible for the administration 13 of the facility. The board of trustees shall develop 14 policies consistent with the rules and regulations and 15 standards of the Texas Juvenile Probation Commission. The 16 board may appoint advisory committees if it determines to do 17 that. The board shall appoint the executive director of the 18 facility, and et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Has the County Attorney 20 looked at all this? 21 MR. EMERSON: From -- I'm sorry, I came in 22 halfway through. From what perspective? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, from the standpoint 24 of is this the -- is this what we need to do, or is this an 25 option for us to do that we need to get to? 9-12-05 105 1 MR. EMERSON: To appoint the trustees? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, appoint the trustees 3 and -- 4 MR. EMERSON: I think you need the trustees. 5 The question is whether it's just purely Commissioners 6 Court, Commissioners Court and community, or a combination 7 thereof. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Personally, I think we 9 need to appoint the Commissioners Court, and let's watch 10 this thing as it unfolds for a few months before we make any 11 kind of change at all. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree totally. I think 13 that for this first year, we definitely -- maybe beyond 14 that, but I think it's -- 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, I'm cool with 16 that. I think that's fine. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Only question is, and I 18 don't -- I don't see how it would be a conflict. Is there 19 any conflict, Judge, that you see serving on this board and 20 the Juvenile Board, potentially? I mean, it doesn't seem 21 that there's a conflict, but -- 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Certainly, with regard to the 23 policies and procedures, I know there's a requirement that 24 the Juvenile Board approve those, and presumably that'll be 25 the same one coming before the Court. 9-12-05 106 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Seems to me it's good to 2 have a person on both. I mean, to me, it's a positive to 3 have -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I haven't really -- I haven't 5 really -- don't really have a definitive answer one way or 6 the other, Commissioner. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Obviously -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I can't, off the top of my 9 head, think of something that would pose a conflict, but 10 that's not to say -- I haven't tried to think through every 11 reasonable contingency or alternative. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think that the -- 13 the law wouldn't allow for something that would put you in 14 conflicting roles, 'cause, obviously, the law requires you 15 to be on the other board, so I would think that they have 16 thought that through. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm not willing to engage in 18 that assumption, Commissioner, but you may. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It would be your -- 20 be your sense, Mr. County Attorney, that if the Court 21 approves naming itself as the board of trustees, five 22 members, if, at some later date, we decided we wanted to add 23 to that board, that would be an appropriate action? 24 MR. EMERSON: Yes, sir. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. I would move 9-12-05 107 1 that Commissioners Court approve the members of the Court as 2 the board of trustees for the Juvenile Probation Facility, 3 as provided in Chapter 63.004 under Title 3, Human Resources 4 Code of the State of Texas. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: You said probation; did you 6 mean detention? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Detention. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir, thank you. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second. 12 Any question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, 13 signify by raising your right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's 18 move, if we might, to Item 21, consider, discuss, and take 19 appropriate action to adopt a Policy and Procedure Manual 20 for the Kerr County Juvenile Detention Facility as provided 21 in Human Resources Code, Title 3, Facility and Services for 22 Children, Chapter 63, Residential Facilities for Certain 23 Delinquent Children, in Paragraph 63.009. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I spared the county 25 the expense and you the trouble of reading this voluminous 9-12-05 108 1 document, which is entitled "Kerr County Policy and 2 Procedure for the Kerr County Juvenile Facility." It is in 3 place. It is a document that was put together, and I 4 believe blessed by the Juvenile Probation Board; has already 5 been. Under the Human Resources Code that we're operating 6 under now, we are required to have in place a -- a policy 7 and procedure manual. For the Court's benefit, this is a 8 living document. It can be changed, amended, added to, 9 taken away from at any time the board of trustees, you know, 10 deems -- with the Facility Administrator, deems it 11 appropriate to do so, forwarded and approved to -- sent up 12 to the Juvenile Probation Board for its consideration, and 13 then on to the T.J.P.C. for its consideration as well. 14 So, what we're doing now is just putting in 15 place -- with the Court's approval, we're putting in place 16 what exists, the policies and procedures that exist, so we 17 can continue to operate under the policies and procedures. 18 If we determine at a later time that amendments are 19 necessary by reason of circumstances or changes in T.J.P.C. 20 procedures or whatever, whatever, we can amend it 21 accordingly. So, I would move that Kerr County 22 Commissioners Court adopt the existing policy and procedure 23 manual for the operation of the Kerr County Juvenile 24 Facility. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 9-12-05 109 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 2 approval -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you want to read 4 the -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: -- of the agenda item. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not right now. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Adoption of the existing 8 policies and procedures for the Kerr County Juvenile 9 Facility. Any question or discussion? 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Question. 11 Appreciate your not asking me to read that, Commissioner 12 Williams. Do you have a feel for whether or not that's a -- 13 pretty much of a template policy guide that would be rather 14 like the other 51 in the state of Texas? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think the Judge 16 could better handle that question, Commissioner. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Basically, these have been 18 adopted by the Juvenile Board. There's an annual 19 requirement that the Juvenile Board approve the policies and 20 procedures in place for the facility. And your specific 21 question, I would answer yes; it's very much a template, 22 because you've got quite a large number of standards and 23 policies and procedures and regulations that have been 24 issued by the Juvenile Probation Commission that control 25 these various policies, so it's basically a takeoff on -- to 9-12-05 110 1 incorporate all of those. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thank you. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is an annual -- 4 an annual event? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: The Juvenile Board is required 6 by statute to annually approve the policies and procedures 7 of the facility. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. And now we're 9 required to, being -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The board of 11 trustees. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- trustees? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I believe we would be 14 required annually, or at the very least, any amendments to 15 it. What's your thoughts, Mr. County Attorney? 16 MR. EMERSON: It doesn't specify a time 17 frame, but I would presume annually would be in the best 18 interests of the facility. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And this particular 20 document that's laying before us is the present document 21 that you all have approved for this coming year? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: No, it was approved last 23 January. It is in place now. It's the current version 24 that's in place right now. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. And when -- 9-12-05 111 1 when is that annual time up? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: January. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, we -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: So, come next January, it will 5 be before the Juvenile Board again for consideration and 6 approval. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And it will be back 8 before Commissioners Court, acting as a Board of Trustees? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: First. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If there's a change to 12 it, it would have to come before us, too. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or recommended change. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But if there's not a 16 change, will it come before this Court? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: That's a question of the 18 County Attorney, whether or not -- I'm not sure Chapter 63 19 requires that -- that there be an annual approval. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm just trying to 21 figure out what we're doing in the loop here. I can't quite 22 see that. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, clearly, that if 24 there's a change to it, we have to get back in the loop at 25 that point. If there's not a change, there wouldn't be. 9-12-05 112 1 And we may want to recommend a change, in which case, then 2 it goes back up to the Juvenile Board. So -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then did I hear 4 you say that after it's approved here in the county, then it 5 goes to Austin for their sign-off? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Any changes in the policies 7 and procedures must be submitted to T.J.P.C. for approval. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 63.009 says, "The 9 board of trustees shall develop policies consistent with the 10 rules, regulations, and standards of T.J.P.C." Doesn't say 11 it has to be done every year. Just says you have to put it 12 in place. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think what I'm 14 hearing is we're doing it now for the first time; we're 15 approving the existing document. First time it's got our 16 approval. And then if there -- in the future, if any 17 changes are proposed, that would have to come back to us for 18 reapproval. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's my 20 understanding, Commissioner. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 22 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 23 your right hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 9-12-05 113 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We'll 3 move to Item 22, consider, discuss, and take appropriate 4 action to reaffirm Kerr County's support of the development 5 of the Hill Country Shooting Sports Complex, and the funding 6 to provide -- to be provided by the Kerrville Economic 7 Improvement Corporation and Texas Parks and Wildlife. I put 8 this on the agenda in conjunction with Commissioner 9 Williams. The Kerrville Economic Development Foundation, as 10 some of you may be aware, last week issued -- unanimously 11 issued -- their board did -- a statement of support for that 12 shooting sports center operation out there, and the E.I.C. 13 funding which was approved by the Kerrville Economic 14 Improvement Corporation, after E.I.C. approved their funding 15 and sent the matter forward to City Council for the 16 Council's -- City Council's consideration of the contract to 17 handle the administration of that funding, it was announced 18 that Texas Parks and Wildlife had approved a grant for -- my 19 recollection, as well as Commissioner Williams', is $300,000 20 of that project. And Commissioner Williams and I believe 21 that, based upon some things that have occurred during the 22 interim period of time since the initial approval of that 23 $200,000 by the Kerrville Economic Improvement Corporation, 24 that it would be appropriate to come back to this Court for 25 a reaffirmation of the support that this Court was required 9-12-05 114 1 to give in order for the shooting complex -- shooting center 2 to even make the application to the Economic Improvement 3 Corporation. And that's why it's before you here today. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The comment I'd make is 5 that I still support the facility, though it's in my 6 precinct, and there are a lot of concerns by neighbors of 7 that facility of how the impact's going to be. And I don't 8 want to withdraw my support that I've given, because I think 9 it's good for the community, but before I'm going to go 10 further, I want to see -- and I've talked to Jack Burch 11 about it; I know what his plans are. I'd like to see a plan 12 before us in writing as to what the -- exactly that 13 facility's going to be used for. There's a lot of -- and I 14 think it's more for the public. There's a lot of -- I hear 15 a lot of things from -- and phone calls to me that are not 16 what Mr. Burch has told me, though these people tell me 17 that's what they've been told by various people, 18 who-knows-who, and I'd like to know really what the -- see a 19 written plan, which we've never really -- there's no reason 20 for us to get it up till now, as to what the scope of the 21 facility is. I know that they're going to have some Olympic 22 trials there, which I think is very good for our community. 23 But I've also heard that he wants -- you know, this is not 24 from him, but from others; that his long-range plans are 25 putting in a Thunder Ranch-type operation, which I'm not so 9-12-05 115 1 sure that is -- it's not what I had envisioned earlier. 2 He's told me it's not his immediate plans to do anything 3 like that, but I really would like to see a -- because of 4 the amount of focus. And I will say, it's not one or two 5 people that have complained about the facility; it is a 6 large number. And I think that it's appropriate to see 7 exactly, in writing, what the scope of that facility 8 long-term is. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I've gotten -- I had 10 conversations about this more than I would have expected. I 11 thought it was a -- when we voted for it back in July, I 12 thought it was a slam-dunk. It brings good business into 13 Kerr County, and it's economic development. I've got the 14 same concerns you just expressed that are coming from -- 15 from constituents -- some of them are your constituents and 16 some of them are mine -- and about noise and about 17 pollution. And I've also got -- heard considerable 18 expressed about using public funds for a private enterprise. 19 Now, that -- using E.I.C. money is not my business; I know 20 that. But state and city funds that are being derived from 21 taxpayer dollars are being put into a -- a for-profit 22 operation. Those two things together makes this issue 23 trouble me a little bit. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, the -- the 25 Economic Improvement Corporation, which authorized the 9-12-05 116 1 expenditure of $200,000, one hundred in each of two years, 2 this year and the next year -- those are 4B sales tax 3 dollars which are specifically designated for economic 4 improvement or economic enhancement, and that's what the 5 statement of support -- reaffirmation of statement of 6 support is predicated on, is the economic development that 7 this project -- the positive economic impact that this 8 project has for Kerr County and the City of Kerrville. I've 9 not heard what you might have heard Commissioner, in terms 10 of the replication of a Thunder Ranch. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think that's 12 true. That's not the reason for my questions here. I just 13 -- Mr. Burch told me that's not his plan, and I believe him. 14 I just think that -- you know, I just -- you know, 15 originally this came before us, and I still think it's a 16 good idea. It's good for the community; it's good for the 17 youth of Kerr County to have a shooting place, but it is 18 not -- there are -- there is a down side to it that I didn't 19 envision early on. And I think that I -- you know, that 20 it's appropriate for the Court to know, at least, what the 21 -- in writing, what the plan for that facility is, which 22 we've never been given. And I just think that -- you know, 23 I just think that it's a -- what I would like to see. And 24 I -- unless there's something that really jumps out at me, I 25 would still be in support of it. 9-12-05 117 1 But -- you know, and I've talked to -- like I 2 say, I've talked to Mr. Burch numerous times and offered to 3 help in any way I can. I've also talked to numerous 4 residents in the area and offered to help them, and I think 5 -- and I have encouraged the two sides to get together, you 6 know, to accommodate each other as much as possible. That 7 may not be possible, and that's not my business here or 8 there. But I think the -- you know, that it is -- if we're 9 going to, you know, go back out again and give support, I'd 10 like to know what we're supporting, and right now I don't 11 really know in writing what the plan for the facility is, 12 other than what I've verbally talked with Mr. Burch about. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Sheriff, you had a comment? 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Only comment -- I can't 15 answer the exact plans that Jack Burch had for the Thunder 16 Ranch-type deal, whether it be open to the public. A lot of 17 the Thunder Ranch-type talk, I know, probably comes from 18 agencies such as ours or the police department, 'cause both 19 our agencies use that range out there for yearly 20 qualifications and needing every-six-month qualifications. 21 And a lot of the talk about that is the Thunder Ranch-type 22 concept for qualifying law enforcement officers, okay? Not 23 necessarily for -- open to the public. They had some setups 24 out at Thunder Ranch which made qualifications a lot better 25 and training a lot better for law enforcement officers. 9-12-05 118 1 Now, both the County and the City do pay for qualifications 2 or qualifying officers out there for the biannual training 3 that we have, but I haven't heard of a public-type Thunder 4 Ranch like they had. But when people talk about Thunder 5 Ranch, especially in our area, they talk about the type of 6 facility they had for law enforcement. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just think -- I mean, I 8 think that the -- obviously, there has to be a written plan; 9 you can't get grants without written plans. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I was going to ask, 11 would you like to see what was presented to Texas Parks and 12 Wildlife? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd just like to know the 14 plan for the facility, you know, what -- what the scope is. 15 I mean, it's -- I hear a lot, but I don't know the -- I 16 don't know what the plan is. I've never asked Mr. Burch for 17 it; I'm sure he would give it to me. I had no idea this was 18 going to be put on the agenda, that we give our support for 19 it. All of a sudden, it's back on the agenda again, and, 20 you know, because of the concern in the community on both 21 sides, you know, I think that we should have, you know, 22 what -- know what we're supporting. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I -- as I read 24 the agenda here, it's to reaffirm our support of the 25 development of the shooting sports complex. Now, what he 9-12-05 119 1 has in mind to do out there long-range I have no idea, but 2 the way I understand it, what I'm supporting is moving 3 toward this Olympic issue, this shooting -- the contest; the 4 actual shooting contest, and I'm in support of that. I -- I 5 think it's a little bit goofy here that we're asking to 6 support the Kerrville E.I.C. issue, but I, as a 7 Commissioner, am in support of what I know is going on out 8 there. Now, if he moves toward a Thunder Ranch, I don't 9 care. That's his business. That's his property. And I -- 10 then it becomes a civil issue, I think, between whoever. 11 So, as far as I'm concerned, I'm willing to vote for this 12 agenda item today. Vote for it. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, the Olympic 14 thing, from what Mr. Burch has told me, that's, like, once 15 every two years, you know, and that's a small part of his 16 plan. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm telling you what I 18 think I'm voting on here. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: General Schellhase, 21 do you have any comments about the -- 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The library. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- the -- not the 24 library. (Laughter.) About some of the environmental 25 issues that have been raised? 9-12-05 120 1 GENERAL SCHELLHASE: As you know, this was 2 brought before the U.G.R.A. Board in July. We appointed a 3 special committee to take the hearings and listen to the 4 input, of which I chaired that committee. We did do that. 5 The issue initiated as noise. It came before the board as a 6 pollution issue, because the noise issue didn't go anywhere. 7 The people in Whiskey Ranch Valley tried to get the people 8 south of I-10 involved from a pollution standpoint, because 9 that's where the water flow goes. It turns out we had a 10 benchmark in there. In March, water tests were made on both 11 of the outflow areas from the rifle range. There was no 12 detectible lead or arsenic in the water. We made additional 13 tests in early September/late August, again found no 14 traceable amounts of lead or arsenic, and took the position 15 that U.G.R.A. has no opposition to what's going on, found no 16 pollution. However, we'll continue to monitor the water 17 from both of these outlets over the next several years, four 18 times a year, to determine if there's any pollution 19 generated. We were told by Mr. Burch that he is installing 20 settlement ponds from the outflow of his operation leading 21 into both of these waterways to collect any sediment that 22 might generate a deterioration in the lead -- separation of 23 lead from arsenic that might settle into the sediment, so I 24 think he's doing his due diligence in that area. Thank you. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Any questions? 9-12-05 121 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I offer it as a 2 motion, that we reaffirm our support. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second. 5 I assume to reaffirm in accordance with the statement of 6 support attached? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I have a motion and a 9 second. Any questions or comments? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Only comment I'll make is 11 that -- you know, is that I'm being forced to vote against 12 something that I'm in favor of because I don't have the 13 information that I've requested. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I'd like to 15 just offer that we should invite Mr. Burch here, and provide 16 us with -- provide us with whatever it was that he provided 17 to the E.I.C and to the Texas Parks and Wildlife so that the 18 Court knows exactly what it's all about. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 20 comments? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 21 your right hand. 22 (Commissioners Baldwin and Williams voted in favor of the motion.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 24 (Commissioners Letz and Nicholson voted 25 against the motion.) 9-12-05 122 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Vote's two to two. The Chair 2 votes in favor of the motion. Let's go to Item 23, unless 3 you want to come back to that item. What's the Court's 4 preference? Try and hit 23 or 24 before noon? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, 23 -- I mean, you 6 can call it. I mean, I think the next one's probably -- we 7 may need to go into executive session. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go ahead and take up 9 Item 23, consider discuss and take appropriate action on 10 Fiscal Year 2005-06 budget. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This, I mean, is a 12 preliminary comment. My preference probably would be to 13 come back and do this after lunch, but I put it on the 14 agenda because we had a marathon meeting last week when we 15 went through a lot of things. We were trying to get the 16 budget dollars to a point that we could settle on a tax 17 rate, which I think we did, but there's things that we left 18 undetermined. We have requests from a number of departments 19 about change -- merit changes and -- you know, that are 20 fairly plain, or in salary. There are some -- I haven't 21 gone back through all of my notes, but there may be some 22 other equipment and things left a little bit unanswered, and 23 I just thought that we ought to -- you know, I just put this 24 on the agenda so that we could, as much as anything, get on 25 the -- find out what the Court's plan is for finalizing a 9-12-05 123 1 budget so we don't end up in a situation, like we have in 2 other years, when something comes to be expended and we 3 didn't adjust the budget. That's the only reason I put it 4 on the agenda. I really -- if we want to go through it now, 5 we can. I'd really rather wait till after lunch. We're 6 going to be back; I think we can do it at 1:30. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I do too. I'd like 8 to wait. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And on that subject, 11 I'd like to ask Tommy, do we have a current budget summary? 12 MR. TOMLINSON: No. The -- the Treasurer is 13 working on the position schedule, and we can't finalize that 14 worksheet until that's done. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The last one I have 16 doesn't include some of these changes that we made in that 17 marathon session; it doesn't have a proposed tax increase in 18 it. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it had a bigger 20 tax increase than the one -- that had a two -- Tommy, the 21 one you have has a 2 percent increase? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: 2-cent. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 2-cent. We approved a 24 one and three-quarter. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 9-12-05 124 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: One question I have is 2 -- and I'd like to have this number so I could chew on it 3 with my cheeseburger. The figure -- the shortfall figure 4 before we started eliminating positions and raising taxes, 5 what was that figure? Does anybody -- surely there was 6 something. There was a piece of paper, much like what -- 7 like that piece of paper right there. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There probably is one, 9 but it will be the one before this one. This one has a 10 2-cent tax increase. This is -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand. But it 12 would be -- I would think it would be one of those 13 documents. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't know that there 15 is one that had everything in it before. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't think there 17 is. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, it didn't have the 19 COLA's in there, for example. It wouldn't have had the 20 COLA's. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Didn't have juvenile. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We don't have one that 23 has -- 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Really accurate 25 number? 9-12-05 125 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- an accurate number. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: No, I don't think so. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Just as a general 5 observation, while you're having your cheeseburger, trying 6 to make some sense of what's happened over the past few 7 weeks, what I see is that we -- we got a substantial amount 8 of new revenue, tax revenue and non-tax revenue, from -- and 9 most of it coming from higher appraisals. And -- and we 10 lost 140,000 due to enacting the senior and disabled thing, 11 and 140,000 is not anywhere near the volume of the new tax 12 dollars that we had coming in. And even with that, even 13 with a lot of new tax dollars, more new tax revenue, we 14 couldn't -- and working on the cost side of it pretty 15 vigorously, we couldn't -- couldn't make a budget work 16 without a tax increase. That's just -- it's hard for me to 17 understand that. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the issue -- you 19 have to go back to the Juvenile Detention Facility. I mean, 20 the -- it's -- what drove this was our reserves getting 21 lower than I was comfortable, and that goes back to the -- 22 largely to that facility. I mean, that's -- you know, the 23 -- the tax freeze and other things, I mean, those are 24 certainly -- when you start getting into a bind, every penny 25 starts counting a whole lot more than when you have a 30 -- 9-12-05 126 1 have a 30 percent reserve. You can be a lot more, you know, 2 lax. And -- which isn't good, but it's just what happens. 3 When you get down to below a 20 percent reserve situation 4 like we found ourselves, you have to start looking at every 5 penny really closely, and that's where I think we found 6 ourselves this year. And I think, you know, the -- you 7 know, I'm sure we all read things in the paper that have 8 been critical of some of our decisions. I think the one I 9 take the most offense to is the fact there's some 10 implication by some of them that we didn't care about the 11 employees. 12 And that bothers me, because I think that 13 anyone that comes to this Court ever in that area, that's 14 the furthest thing from the truth. This Court, more than 15 any court that I've been on, has fought for the employees. 16 We've given them raises across the board where we can, 17 COLA's that are -- that are real COLA's, as opposed to 18 picking an arbitrary 2 percent number that didn't usually 19 meet. We've tried to eliminate the lower pay grades where 20 possible and push people up. I think we've done that 21 county-wide. We certainly have done it in the Sheriff's 22 Department. We've done it -- which has been a tremendous 23 improvement; there's no more turnover of deputies. And I 24 think -- so I think that -- you know, that this Court has 25 done a great job in looking after the employees. And 9-12-05 127 1 that -- and doing that is also part of the reason we got 2 into trouble. We established a longevity policy and other 3 policies that we've stuck by our guns to help existing 4 employees. Yes, it meant that this year we had to do a 5 little bit of trimming, but -- and that's unfortunate. 6 Certainly, I don't think any of us enjoy saying that we have 7 to lay off a person in this department or that department. 8 But I think, overall, this Court has done a great job 9 that -- I'm very happy to be part of looking after our 10 employees and helping them on the financial side. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I want to comment 12 again about what almost seems to be a gender warfare going 13 on out in the community about the over-65 tax freeze. I'm 14 reminded again that almost nine out of ten of the voters 15 that voted in that referendum said yes, we want a tax freeze 16 for seniors and disabled. And nine out of ten, there's got 17 to be old people and young people voting for it, poor people 18 and rich people. So, I wonder when -- where -- at what 19 point in a representative government you say we're going to 20 ignore the will of nine out of -- of nine out of ten people 21 and not do what they want us to do. And the other thing I 22 want to say about it, it will -- it will become more money, 23 but the $140,000 is not -- not a small amount in our budget, 24 but it's not the main source of our budget ills this year. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I want to comment on 9-12-05 128 1 that. You remember we had a Commissioners Court meeting 2 that called -- to call the election. And we had that, and 3 it was almost like a hearing kind of a thing. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Lot of people showed 5 up. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Lot of people showed 7 up. Not one person here under 65 to speak against that 8 thing. Not one. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's right. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And we go to the 11 people to vote, and very, very few people under 65 voted on 12 the issue. So, to answer your question, at what point, as a 13 representative government, do we say no? In hindsight, if I 14 had the opportunity again, I would vote no. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I know you would. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That would never, ever 17 reach the -- the public to be able to vote on that thing, in 18 my opinion. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the -- you know, 20 on that point, I think -- you know, personally, we need to 21 quit talking about it. What's done is done. I think that 22 the -- you know, and we did it. But I think that the -- the 23 argument that I had back at that time that I would put 24 forward -- I know nine out of ten voted for it, but what 25 they voted for was to put it to an election. They didn't 9-12-05 129 1 vote for the freeze. And that's the point that I tried to 2 raise, and I think it should have been a county-wide 3 election. I think it likely would have passed; I don't 4 think it would have changed the results, but I think it 5 would have given -- put it on the forefront more than it 6 was. And -- you know, but we did it. We got to move on. 7 We've made, you know, unfortunately, bad decisions at times, 8 and we just move forward. I think that's one of them that, 9 whether you think it's bad or not, it's done. Let's go. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Only comment I would 11 have, and I didn't even deal with that, is I think you're 12 right; we've stretched that one about as far -- rubber 13 band's about to break. But the reality is, in past budgets, 14 it wasn't -- our past budgets have not been balanced against 15 the ad valorem and the non-tax revenue. They've been 16 balanced knowing that our reserves were sufficient to create 17 a balanced budget for purposes of moving forward in our next 18 fiscal year, and that our -- historically, there is always 19 sufficient within the reserves not used up in the budget 20 year, and it comes out at the end of the year the same or a 21 greater amount of reserves. What happened this past year 22 was that the Juvenile Detention Facility, which was not 23 included in our budget, provided us with about 800,000 or 24 more dollars worth of red ink that we had not budgeted for, 25 and that is the difference really in terms of where we were 9-12-05 130 1 last year with a tax rate -- with no tax increase into the 2 rate -- no increase into the rate, as opposed to this year. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Why don't we be in 4 recess till 1:30. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Two people with their 6 hand up. 7 MR. TOMLINSON: I was just going to make a 8 comment that we do need to have -- there needs to be a 9 public hearing on the budget, and it needs to be the same 10 day as the -- as you adopt the tax rate. So, to move 11 backwards 10 days from the right day, we need to finalize 12 the proposed -- 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Didn't we set those 14 dates? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: No, that was on the tax rate. 16 We got time to do that. 17 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: We got time to do that. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The only comment I'd 20 like to make, because -- and the reason I'd like to make 21 this now is I do have a funeral I have to go to at 2:00 that 22 I may not get back. I just would like for the Court -- 23 after we went back and after the decisions last week, in 24 trying to work a patrol schedule and that, I didn't mind 25 giving up the three, or even the one other one that's on 9-12-05 131 1 military, nonfunding, but I would truly like the Court to 2 reconsider the two other patrol deputies when you finalize 3 this budget. I don't like going down to any shifts that I 4 could end up with only three working, and if two of those 5 positions were back, I wouldn't have to do that. And I 6 would just like -- that would still cut four employees out 7 of the Sheriff's Office, but I would just like the Court to 8 reconsider that so we can effectively cover the county. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll be in recess -- 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'll try to be here, but 11 I may not be. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll be in recess till 1:30. 13 (Recess taken from 11:58 a.m. to 1:34 p.m.) 14 - - - - - - - - - - 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order 16 to our Commissioners Court meeting of this date. We were in 17 recess for lunch to resume at 1:30. It's a bit past that 18 now. We're back on Item 23, consider and discuss and take 19 appropriate action on Fiscal Year 2005-06 budget. I have a 20 number of items earmarked to go through, and -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, before you get 22 into that, can I say something right quick? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Surely. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There was -- don't 25 call me Shirley. There was several items that we had 9-12-05 132 1 misworded and couldn't take care of today, and it's -- and 2 some folks' business hinges on that, and I was wondering if 3 we could call a new meeting with these particular agenda 4 items on it either Friday, or we're in here Monday anyway. 5 Monday would be a good time to do it. Just put together a 6 mini Commissioners Court meeting and take care of those 7 items so these people can do their business and go on down 8 the road with their life. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Right after we broke for 10 lunch, I asked the County Attorney if it would be 11 inappropriate to -- since we're going to be here, for 12 example, next Monday, to have an agenda of the Court -- a 13 special agenda of the Court itself, and the response I got 14 was that as long as it's properly posted 72 hours, he saw 15 nothing to prevent that. If there's a posting before 16 whatever time Friday you want the meeting, before that time 17 tomorrow, it could occur on Friday. I'm scheduled to be out 18 at a county judge's meeting this Friday. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's just do it 20 Monday. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're in here at 23 10 o'clock -- scheduled in here at 10:00 on something; I 24 can't remember what it is. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tax rate. 9-12-05 133 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Tax rate. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tax rate, yeah. And 3 so we can come in a few minutes before and -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Start at 9 o'clock and start 5 putting these items on, and there may be some additional 6 items that we have to take a look at. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm sure there is. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Appreciate the 10 Commissioner bringing it up, but I think the Court ought to 11 be aware, there are some inconsistencies in what we did 12 today in terms of some of the -- a couple of the stylings. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: True. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We approved a couple 15 that the styling was not totally to the County Attorney's 16 satisfaction, and we rejected one that we'd already 17 conducted -- or didn't reject it; we just didn't take any 18 action on one where we'd already conducted a public hearing 19 and knew what that was all about, so we were a little 20 inconsistent. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The reason we 22 slipped those in is to check and see if Rex was going to 23 sleep through the meeting or be awake. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, I see. And he 25 did. 9-12-05 134 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And we got him. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He did. Well, Don, 3 do you want to say anything? 4 MR. EICHLER: Just tell me what day. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pardon? 6 MR. EICHLER: Just tell me what day y'all are 7 going to -- 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Next Monday. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 9 o'clock. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It'll be on that 11 agenda, styled correctly. 12 MR. EICHLER: All right. And the notice in 13 the paper will be worded correctly? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Don't need a notice; 15 we already went through the public hearing. 16 MR. EICHLER: Okay. All right. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let me start hitting, if 18 I might, some of these individual items. We had a -- the 19 need for a reader-printer under the County Clerk's budget. 20 That's going to be on Page 5 and 6. Ms. Pieper, is that 21 under 569, Operating Equipment? Is that included there? 22 MS. PIEPER: I believe it was under 570, the 23 Capital Outlay, sir. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: On the run that I have dated 25 31 August, it's not included. Were those figures included 9-12-05 135 1 in -- or taken into account? I think it would have been a 2 total of $3,400. It was $250 a month for 12 months, plus a 3 $400 maintenance factor, and that would have made $3,400. 4 Was that included in the -- in the run that was made? 5 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't remember. I'm not 6 sure. I remember that discussion, but I don't -- 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What are we doing 8 here? 9 MR. TOMLINSON: I thought we were going to 10 have a lease on that. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't think it is. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Are we going back 15 through the budget to audit it to see that the changes we 16 made were included? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, that's part of what 18 we're going to do, yeah. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What are you looking 20 at? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm looking at a run dated 31 22 August that the Auditor provided to me, and I've got several 23 pages tabbed that I think there are outstanding issues on. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do we have that same 25 run? Or is that -- 9-12-05 136 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is it that run right 2 there that Commissioner Baldwin has? Is that -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: What's the date in the upper 4 right-hand corner? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: August 9th. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: No. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't have that. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's all right. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: August 9th. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I got 18 July in my 11 book. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have no problem -- I 13 mean, that's the most recent run, and I -- that needs to be 14 in the budget. 15 MS. PIEPER: That kind of worries me. Now 16 I'm worried, what else is not going to be in there that I'm 17 expecting? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the reader-printer that 19 we talked about, I think the consensus was during the 20 workshop that we need to -- 21 MS. PIEPER: Right. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: -- add that in. Okay, I just 23 wanted to confirm that. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What was the cost of 25 that again? 9-12-05 137 1 JUDGE TINLEY: 3,400. That includes a 2 maintenance factor of 400 on it. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree, it ought to 4 be in there. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And based -- one comment 7 in general. I think every elected official needs to look at 8 their budget after Tommy runs his next run and make sure 9 that things are in there. I mean, that's just a notice to 10 everyone that a bunch of them were in the audit. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: The Nondepartmental, and 12 that's on -- well, if y'all don't have the run, it doesn't 13 make any difference what page it's on, does it? 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Tab 2. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Nondepartmental, it was 16 brought to my attention that 9-1-1 postage was not included 17 in that. Ms. Mitchell mentioned that. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct. And also some 19 office supplies, additional, I think, for the last mailout 20 were not included. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Why are we paying 22 for 9-1-1 postage? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is the final mailout 24 for addressing that we approved -- or discussed in -- I 25 guess we approved to do it about a month ago, just to go to 9-12-05 138 1 the final -- final time that the County's going to try to 2 get people to get a 9-1-1 address. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There's still several 4 hundred -- or a couple hundred folks out there that have not 5 responded at all, and we're going to take one more shot at 6 it. But I don't -- 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's a good thing 8 to do. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't remember the 10 cost. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's -- I believe that 12 $723.80 is the amount. I have $225 for envelopes and $500 13 for postage. $725. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: So, you need about $750 -- 15 additional $750 in the -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: $500 for postage and $250 17 in office supplies. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Not a lot of money, 19 but there may be a principle involved. We have the duty or 20 the authority to name roads. We don't assign addresses. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I believe that we have 22 the authority -- the duty and responsibility for addressing, 23 not 9-1-1. 24 MS. PIEPER: Yes. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: House numbers? 9-12-05 139 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. That's the 2 County's -- that's the County's authority. We've given it 3 to 9-1-1 and they've done it. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay, I'm wrong. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, postage is going 6 to be added. How much? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: $750. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Total of $500 postage, $250 9 office supplies. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Information Technology, 12 the -- the title of the specialist -- the manager needs to 13 have his employee deleted out of there. But in doing so, 14 the consensus of the Court seemed to be that -- that he 15 needed to be brought up to the 42, 42,5 range. That was the 16 understanding Commissioner Nicholson and I had when we gave 17 the info to the Auditor for the run. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think he should be 19 paid more like other senior -- not other; he should be paid 20 more like senior elected officials. That's going up to 21 around 45 or so, thousand. So, stepping him up to 41 or 42, 22 something like that, would at least be directionally 23 correct. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the current 25 salary? 9-12-05 140 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: 36,181 plus COLA. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, 36,181 included 4 the COLA from the past budget year. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, I agree with you. 7 I think his performance merits consideration. So, what's 8 the number? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 42. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: 42 even? Or whatever's in 12 that range for -- do we even want to -- 13 MR. TOMLINSON: The note that I have that I 14 received at the last meeting was 42,5, and that's in the 15 budget. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's in there? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: That's already there? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How does that work 19 out in the grid, Barbara? 20 MR. TOMLINSON: He's not. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He's not. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not in the grid. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not in the grid. 24 MS. NEMEC: When you give us these amounts, 25 are we supposed to add the cost-of-living? Or that's just 9-12-05 141 1 the new amount, and that includes -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's the new -- 3 my feeling is this is the new amount; that's the amount for 4 this year. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Put 42,5 in. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let me -- I think we 7 added him in the summary. Let me make sure that we've got 8 the two different categories of Court-appointed criminal and 9 Court-appointed civil in both the 216th and 198th. 10 MR. TOMLINSON: They're in there. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: They're in there. They're in 12 the summary, I know. 13 MR. TOMLINSON: They're in the budget. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: On those two, we 16 also reduced the amount for special trials? 17 MR. TOMLINSON: That's in there, too. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's in the current 20 summary? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I think the special 22 trials was reduced all the way down to -- what, 10,000 in 23 the 198th? 24 MR. TOMLINSON: 10,000. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: And 50 in the 216th? 9-12-05 142 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes. 2 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think it was opposite 4 that. 5 MR. TOMLINSON: It's 10 in the 216th, and I 6 think we left the 198th like it was. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Fifty, because it was 8 felt that the Seard trial had a -- not much of a likelihood 9 to come to -- correct? 10 MS. UECKER: We should know pretty soon, 11 because Feaselman's been reset for the first week in 12 November, I think. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, we can't wait 14 till then. We have to do something now. 15 MS. UECKER: No, but what I'm saying is we 16 should know early in the budget year whether or not that's 17 going to be sufficient or not. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Or too much. 20 MS. UECKER: Or too much, yeah. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm worried about 22 the too much. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's keep rolling through 24 here. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I've got a question 9-12-05 143 1 on 216th District Attorney. Probably pass that on, Judge. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Page 22 on mine. 4 Tab 8. It appears to be an increase from a hundred -- I 5 mean from 93,000 to 134, and I don't remember getting an 6 answer why that's increased so much. 7 MR. TOMLINSON: I know one reason. He's 8 added -- he's added an assistant prosecutor, another 9 assistant prosecutor. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Wrong direction. 11 MR. TOMLINSON: That's not totally all our 12 cost, though. That -- his -- his office expenses are 13 partially paid by the State, and partially paid -- well, 14 they're paid by all four counties in the district. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We -- here we are 16 trying to squeeze every penny out of this budget we can, and 17 we've got him going up $40,000 a year in our costs. 18 MR. TOMLINSON: What he told me was that in 19 an effort to try to get some cases over with, and in a 20 relatively real time, that he needed another prosecutor. 21 That's what he did. He added -- 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, you could add -- 23 MR. TOMLINSON: We got problems with people 24 in the jail, and that was his answer. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You could add 25 9-12-05 144 1 attorneys, but if you don't have judges sitting here hearing 2 them, it doesn't do anything. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, he -- I mean, he's got 4 as many cases in Kendall County as he does here. That's one 5 of the problems; he's got so many -- four counties. He has 6 a heavy case load. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's our percentage 8 share in a situation like that? 9 MR. TOMLINSON: It's based on the '90 -- I 10 mean on the 2000 population. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ours is major. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ours is a majority. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 14 MR. TOMLINSON: About 45 percent. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 45 percent? Okay. 16 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah, about that. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'd be inclined to 18 say no. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I think it -- I 20 would agree with Commissioner Nicholson that it's hard to 21 approve them when we're forcing staff reductions elsewhere, 22 and I don't know the reason. I mean, I know the reasoning; 23 you just told it. But, I mean, I think that there's -- just 24 hiring a prosecutor isn't going to solve the problem of 25 getting things through the courts. I agree with what 9-12-05 145 1 Commissioner Baldwin said on that. So, unless there's a 2 real plan to move cases through the courts, it doesn't make 3 a lot of sense just to hire another prosecutor. 4 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't think it's fair to 5 say no without hearing from him. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, that's what I'm 7 saying; I agree. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, we're here. 9 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, he hasn't been asked to 10 come, either, that I know of. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: He could have sent a 12 piece of paper in and explained it. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Would you go get the big book, 14 the big thick one that's on the table there? If you'd bring 15 that to me, I think we'll see what the backup is. That 16 would show that. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, are we at 198th 18 or 216th? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 216th. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: 216th, yeah. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 198th isn't increased -- 22 I mean, not substantially. A couple thousand. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I thought Junction was 24 198th. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: It is. 9-12-05 146 1 MR. TOMLINSON: It is. 2 MS. UECKER: It is. 216th is Gillespie, 3 Kendall, Kerr, and Bandera. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. You said 5 Kendall; you didn't say Kimball. I'm sorry, I misunderstood 6 you. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: They've got lots of seizures 8 going on up in Kimble County. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Little different story 10 over there. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: While we're waiting on that, 12 on Health and Emergency Services, I looked at those numbers 13 on the EMS contract, and that's $200,157. That includes our 14 First Responder and Medical Director and all those other -- 15 have you got that correction made? Okay. 16 MS. MITCHELL: Is this the one you're talking 17 about? It's got backup in there behind Tab 8. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The facilities lease, 20 medical director, and First Responders, correct? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But that doesn't 24 include first -- the First Responder budget. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Ten, four. 9-12-05 147 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It does? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: It's about $10,400, and that's 3 part of it. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: It's all part of that $200,000 6 figure. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not -- not just the 9 director's salary, but his little breathing apparatuses and 10 those things that we pay for? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Equipment. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't think there's any 13 equipment in there. The funding request that we received 14 was broken out as operational, medical director, lease 15 expense, half of an ambulance, and First Responder. All of 16 the First Responder was charged to us, and that was 10,400 17 and change, as I recall. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's correct. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All of that was rolled into 21 the $200,157. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What is that, under 23 County-Sponsored? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Probably. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: This isn't going to work, 9-12-05 148 1 because that doesn't have that large increase in it. I need 2 that great big book. 3 MS. MITCHELL: You've got two other ones in 4 there. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 198th. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: No wonder. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Here it is. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, this thing. Is 9 this in here? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think so. 11 (Discussion off the record.) 12 MS. MITCHELL: These are the only two left. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: You got it. Bingo. It shows 14 a -- almost a doubling of the assistants, and it shows a -- 15 an additional secretary, it looks like, from what I'm 16 looking at here. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where are we now, 18 Judge? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: 216th D.A. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 216th. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We pay 41 percent of this 23 budget. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We're not hiring 25 another prosecutor? We're hiring another clerk? 9-12-05 149 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Both. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Both. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Hiring a 4 prosecutor -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: And a clerk, yes. Now, the -- 6 the V.A.W.A. grant was just approved, Violence Against Women 7 Act, and we got notification of that -- actually, last week 8 we got formal notification, as I recall. That is a $70,000 9 grant. If I'm not mistaken, that is a Kerr County grant 10 alone. 11 MR. EMERSON: Correct. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: And has nothing to do with the 13 other counties. Those cases could be cases in the 216th, 14 the 198th, or Kerr County Court at Law. That prosecutor -- 15 and it was specifically primarily for the purpose of hiring 16 an additional prosecutor. Do you remember the exact number, 17 Rex? 70,000 is what comes to my mind. 18 MR. EMERSON: 70,000-something. I don't 19 remember the exact number. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, there -- he's 22 got an '04-'05 estimated actual of 230,000. He's requesting 23 360,000, so about a 60 percent increase, total budget. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are you saying, Judge, 25 that the -- the Kerr County portion of that amount can come 9-12-05 150 1 out of this grant? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: The additional prosecutor, I 3 know, can come out of it. And I don't know about the 4 support services. That will be dependent upon the actual 5 requirements of the grant. 6 MR. EMERSON: It depends on what Mr. Curry 7 wants to use that additional prosecutor for. The grant 8 covers Kerr County only, not the other three counties of his 9 office. And it's also limited to the scope of the cases 10 that the Judge discussed. So, if he's wanting a prosecutor 11 for all of his cases, that won't work. 12 MS. UECKER: Would y'all like for me to call 13 him, ask him to come over if he's in his office? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I think it may be appropriate 15 to hear from him, sounds like. 16 MS. UECKER: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I need to 18 clarify the First Responder issue, please. What I'm hearing 19 you say is you rolled the -- all the First Responder stuff 20 is rolled into the -- the new city EMS contract. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The City rolled it into 22 it, we didn't. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The summary sheet they 25 gave us, they had the First Responder -- 9-12-05 151 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But we have a separate 2 budget for First Responder that we do. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But that money -- doesn't 4 that money go to the City's employee? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, I think -- where's 6 the Auditor's office? I think that on the -- on this First 7 Responders' county budget is -- you know, the flashlights, 8 the fibrillators and those kind of things that we purchase, 9 he purchases it and then sends -- sends the bill in to your 10 office. So, that's a separate thing. 11 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, that's been true in the 12 past, but I understood that -- that this -- that the City 13 included all the expenses associated with the First 14 Responders into one amount. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Here's what -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- was requested of 18 us. County subsidy for Medical Director, 9,040; County 19 subsidy for EMS lease, 6,000; County subsidy for -- for 20 operations, 136,000; County subsidy for equipment 21 replacement, County First Responder program, 10,780. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I guess it -- let's 23 see. We pay -- we pay half -- a percentage of his salary. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 25 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah, it's included in that 9-12-05 152 1 list. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah 9,040 each for 3 the Medical Directors' salary. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not Medical Director. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: First Responder salary. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: First Responder 7 Director. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What was the number 9 you're looking at? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 5,540 bucks. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there a salary item 12 there? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not for -- there's 15 nothing on this thing I'm looking at for 5,000. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, it's oxygen 17 refills, portable radio, that kind of stuff that we purchase 18 every year. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. I think 20 Commissioner Baldwin's right; I think that equipment's in a 21 different item. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is a county -- 23 county budget. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm looking at two different 25 entries on ours dealing with First Responders. One is 9-12-05 153 1 Coordinator, and that estimated -- the amount budgeted for 2 this year was 9,675. That may be where the 10,7 comes from. 3 Then there's a separate item, First Responders Expenses, and 4 we budgeted just a little over $3,000 last year. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think that is 6 correct, and it's gone to 5,5 -- 5,500. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: And that 5,500 I don't think 8 is in this budget. It's not rolled up into this. Now, 9 the -- this 10,780 is, 'cause it's within the 200,157. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: So, what I'm hearing from you 13 is we need to add 5,500. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: $5,540 is the -- is 15 the budget that he turned in. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, 5,540. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that Tab 25 we 18 were looking at a while ago? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir, the very 20 last -- it's the very last -- 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 5,540? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, that's it. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: The adjustment on the 24 Environmental Health employees, that adjustment's been made? 25 Okay. The Animal Control kennel worker was added if we went 9-12-05 154 1 to five? 2 MR. TOMLINSON: I took -- I took one out. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think we should 4 add the -- Animal Control should stay unchanged, 'cause it 5 appears the City's going to execute the contract, so the 6 employment out there should remain unchanged. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what we 8 indicated; three employees if no contract, five if there was 9 a renewal of the contract. Is that right? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or close to renewal. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, what we know now 13 is that there's a high, high chance we're going to have the 14 same five people, so we just need to -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: My point -- my point was, the 16 kennel worker never got into the recommended line for some 17 reason, and there's only four on the run I'm looking at. 18 Did that increase to five? 'Cause I know when I -- when we 19 were computing the number, their 60 percent -- 20 MR. TOMLINSON: Whatever the Court has is 21 what the Treasurer put on the -- on the position schedule. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Barbara, how many do we 23 have? 24 MR. TOMLINSON: My note said to take two out 25 of Animal Control. 9-12-05 155 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. And that's right, 2 but we're adding those two back in today. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And you'll have to 4 round the revenue back into non-tax, the value of the 5 contract. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Animal Control contract. 7 Which is -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: 136. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- 136, whatever it is. 10 MS. UECKER: Judge? Mr. Curry is in a Grand 11 Jury; he said he'll be down as soon as he finished his 12 witness. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: You're showing, Ms. Nemec, 14 five? 15 MS. NEMEC: Five. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: In Animal Control, a total of 17 five? 18 MS. NEMEC: Yes. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Then we have that -- 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's what it 21 should be. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. County-sponsored. You 23 have Water Development included? 24 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes, I do. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: The KCAD contract, based upon 9-12-05 156 1 the proposed numbers that they gave us? Okay. City fire 2 contract, are you showing that at 125? I don't suppose 3 anybody else has heard anything from them? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Nope. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: One can always hope. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Try and be funny. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We can reduce it. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Library is 300. Okay. 9 Eliminated the additional deputy from Courthouse Security. 10 Okay. Page 68, I think. Agriculture Extension Service. 11 The run I have, I assume, has been adjusted in the Agent's 12 Salaries. What about the part-time salary? Is that still 13 in there? Both of those are out? 14 MR. TOMLINSON: Both of them are out. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd like to look back at 17 the -- the agent position. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Glad you brought that up, 19 Commissioner. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that it's -- you 21 know, it's one that we pay -- we get a big bang for our buck 22 with that funding, being -- whatever, 30 percent of that 23 salary. I'd like to add that back in. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What -- do we have a 25 number? 9-12-05 157 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, it would put it back up 2 to 31,370. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's about -- 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Current 15,860 up 5 to -- 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's about $16,000 7 more than it was last year, because the position's been 8 vacant. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: My note says the 10 State pays 70 percent of that and the County pays 30 percent 11 of that; is that correct? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: And the other aspect of that 13 is we do not pay any of the insurance costs on that 14 employee. State picks that up. So, from an economic 15 standpoint, that position makes a whole lot more sense. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm fine with it. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd like to see the 18 person be put back in, but not the secretary. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree, not the 20 secretary. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The short person or 22 whatever that is. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: FCS position is what you're 24 talking about, Family and Consumer Science. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 9-12-05 158 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: I took it out of the last 4 one. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pardon? What, Tommy? 6 MR. TOMLINSON: I said I just took it out 7 this morning. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I guess you have to 9 plug it back in. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Those are the primary ones 11 that I -- I just wanted to touch base on. Others may have 12 some others. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I've got some more. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, we've got the 15 D.A. here now. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, yeah. Mr. Curry? 17 MR. CURRY: Yes, sir. I'm sorry, I was right 18 in the middle of something. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: The Commissioners had some 20 questions about the pretty wide variance between your last 21 year's budget and your proposed budget for the coming year. 22 It appears as though the big items are that you're hopeful 23 of bringing on a new assistant prosecutor, as well as a new 24 secretary; is that correct? 25 MR. CURRY: Yes, sir, that would be 9-12-05 159 1 substantial. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Were you -- were you hoping to 3 use the V.A.W.A. grant funds for that purpose? 4 MR. CURRY: No. Actually, at the time I 5 based that, I didn't think we were necessarily going to get 6 the assistant; that was all done beforehand, so it was not 7 based on that. It was just a straight assistant situation. 8 We -- our docket has just blossomed, as the Court's probably 9 aware. We -- we're just really inundated, and that was the 10 purpose of that. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there a way to use 12 that grant to pay -- can you organize your office such that 13 that person would handle those particular cases? 14 MR. CURRY: I don't believe so. The -- we've 15 kind of split that up. It's really just a -- a fairly 16 limited use person for that. In fact, I'm -- we haven't met 17 yet, actually had our little final meeting on it, but I 18 suspect a large portion of that's going to be in the family 19 violence area for the -- a lot of the misdemeanor cases and 20 some felonies, but divided between the two courts, so it's 21 not going to be a -- you know, a real major -- of great 22 major assistance that we would really need. If it was one 23 person for one court, it would be, but that's not the way 24 it's going to be lined up. And it's for the limited types 25 of cases, which will keep that person busy, but it's not 9-12-05 160 1 the -- the problem that we're really having. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: That money's going to be 3 expended generally for prosecutors and whatever other 4 purposes are authorized in both the 198th and 216th, only in 5 Kerr County? 6 MR. CURRY: Yes, sir. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: As well as the County 8 Attorney's office? 9 MR. CURRY: Correct. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: In Kerr County. So, that 11 V.A.W.A. money of some 70,000, you were -- you have a better 12 handle on that figure? My -- my recollection, it was 13 70,000. 14 MR. CURRY: It's about 71. That's what I 15 understood, 71,000. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That 70,000 will be applied 17 against the collective Kerr County budgets of those three 18 offices, will it not? 19 MR. CURRY: That's correct. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there -- I mean, 21 Bruce, I'm sure you're aware of the tight situation we're 22 in. 23 MR. CURRY: I was reading that with concern. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there -- I mean, is 25 there any way that we could, in your -- reduce that? Or 9-12-05 161 1 reduce the clerical assistant or, I mean, anything we can do 2 to -- 3 MR. CURRY: Yeah -- yes. I mean, actually, 4 you know, we -- if we didn't increase that, I've been 5 operating with basically the staff for 20 years. We've 6 never really increased since the task force came in, and I 7 think that was '97, if I recall. And so, you know, we could 8 continue to do it. We're just really getting engulfed. 9 It's just one of those problems. You know, could I do a 10 part-time person? I don't know. I've never had much luck 11 with part-time, to be honest. But, you know, that's a 12 possibility. Could our current secretarial staff handle 13 that? I should bring Ms. Brown up here to talk with you. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. No. (Laughter.) 15 MR. CURRY: It might be -- 16 JUDGE TINLEY: The threat will be enough to 17 hold off most of these folks. 18 MR. CURRY: The economics of it, I don't -- I 19 don't know. I mean, I -- but that was -- that's the 20 problem. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: In my mind, it's -- I 22 understand the need, but it's a bad year -- 23 MR. CURRY: Yeah. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- to implement it. And 25 if we could defer it a year, you know, or go part-time, that 9-12-05 162 1 certainly would be -- make it easier, in my mind. 2 MR. CURRY: I'd certainly be willing to do 3 either of those -- I mean, try them. 'Cause I understand 4 the situation you're in. I -- I'm hopeful that this would 5 eliminate a lot of our problems, and whether it's this year 6 or next year or partially, I -- be helpful in any event. 7 But -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I -- you know, I 9 mean, you know your business certainly a lot better than I 10 do as to whether it's better to defer it or try part-time. 11 I mean, I don't know if it's -- if part-time doesn't work 12 very well, no reason to throw money away, but if you think 13 you can, you know, improve your backlog -- 14 MR. CURRY: I -- well, to be honest with you, 15 I'd really rather defer it between those two, 'cause I -- 16 that's just a personal thing. I've never had -- you know, 17 you get some person in, and that might work great, and then 18 if it didn't, you know, it might create more problems than 19 it solves, but that's it. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Bruce, I'm not sure I 21 understand what the grant's going to be used for. Will you 22 explain that a little? 23 MR. CURRY: The V.A.W.A. grant? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 25 MR. CURRY: That's going to be for violence 9-12-05 163 1 against women. And I -- I foresee it to be primarily these 2 cases where a spouse beats up another spouse, that type of 3 family violence-type cases. It could include sexual assault 4 cases, but most of those involve children, basically, and as 5 I understand it, that grant will not cover it. I wish we 6 could utilize it; that would make a difference, but we 7 can't, so it's going to be mostly family violence. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, on the -- on the 9 family violence type, it will pay for a prosecutor? Is that 10 what you're telling me? 11 MR. CURRY: The grant? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. 13 MR. CURRY: Yes. Yes, sir. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 15 MR. CURRY: There is no support staff, as I 16 understand it, for that, but the -- it's a prosecutor. And 17 I believe there's -- office space has been provided, as I 18 understand -- 19 MR. EMERSON: Correct. 20 MR. CURRY: -- for the prosecutor in the 21 County Attorney's office, who will be -- if I can twist his 22 arm, he'll be administering it. So -- but that's what it's 23 limited to, those types of cases. Fairly -- fairly limited. 24 Probably a little more flexibility, actually, in the County 25 Attorney's office, but I'm not certain. But from our 9-12-05 164 1 standpoint in the district court, that's what it would be. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there a way that -- I 3 don't know -- I'm having a hard time understanding how this 4 grant is going to -- one, I guess it's not directly related 5 to the budget, but say you have a -- you have a case that 6 would qualify under the grant. Do you just bill the hours 7 out of a current attorney, or do you have to hire a separate 8 attorney? How does that -- what -- you or Rex; I don't know 9 who to ask the question to. I mean, can you take one of 10 your current attorneys and say they could bill a certain -- 11 be reimbursed a certain amount of time -- dollars, I guess? 12 MR. CURRY: I would think it would just be 13 this new attorney that would be -- I don't think there's a 14 billing situation involved. It's just a -- this person 15 would -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, a new attorney's 17 hired that will work through all -- 18 MR. EMERSON: The application on the grant 19 was for a new position, and that's -- with that 20 understanding, that's what the grant was approved on. And 21 there were -- if I'm not mistaken, and I'm shooting off the 22 top of my head, between sexual assaults and assault, family 23 violence type cases, I think there were about 130 cases last 24 year. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, the grant will 9-12-05 165 1 indirectly help, but not directly, 'cause you can't -- it 2 doesn't replace what you're asking for, but indirectly may 3 help. 4 MR. CURRY: It -- yeah, there is a certain 5 amount of that. And we're just hoping the three prosecutors 6 can get together and coordinate and cooperate, and I don't 7 think that'll be a problem, but it will be diluted somewhat. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I think you can designate 9 prosecutors, but not require them to be full-time. And I 10 would recommend that you not specify someone as 100 percent, 11 because the first time you do that and you have a need -- 12 you've got someone out of the office temporarily and you 13 need to have that prosecutor fill in for somebody, you're 14 immediately out of compliance with your grant. And what you 15 may want to do is consider a partial percentage designation 16 of several prosecutors, maybe somewhat in proportion to 17 those kind of cases that they already handle now, and you've 18 got yourself a good deal more wiggle room when it comes to 19 staying in compliance with the grant that way. I think 20 Mr. Emerson is noted as project director, so I think it's 21 going to flow through his office, if -- if I understand this 22 correctly. But it's for the benefit of the prosecution of 23 all cases in Kerr County of this type. The amount -- the 24 total amount that we're getting from the grant is just under 25 $71,000. 9-12-05 166 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But what -- I mean, what 2 I'm hearing, though, is that Bruce is willing to defer the 3 additional staff on his department until next year, we can 4 look at it. And I know there's a Sheriff back there that 5 would like to get some of this money, if we're freeing up -- 6 MR. CURRY: He left before I could -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, he left? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I think when Mr. Curry 9 mentioned that Ms. Brown may be over, he decided to leave. 10 (Laughter.) 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I may go with him. 12 I've been through that one before. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thank you for your 14 help, Mr. Curry. We need help. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Would -- would Ms. Brown -- 16 would Ms. Brown give us the same answer with regard to the 17 additional staff? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Don't ask the question. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You're selling 20 beyond the close. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I see. I've got myself 22 protected; at least I inquired. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay, let's go on. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you, Bruce. 25 MR. CURRY: Thank you. 9-12-05 167 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, sir. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got a couple 3 issues. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Go. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. I wanted 6 to talk just a minute about the Juvenile Detention Facility. 7 Our -- we set the budget based on the number of kids that 8 we're going to have out there, and what I'd like to see is, 9 at our next meeting, I'd like to see our Facility Director 10 come to this Commissioners Court and set some goals of what 11 she intends to do as far as numbers out there. I'd like to 12 see her set goals for every quarter, every three months, to 13 -- I don't know what numbers it might be; that would be her 14 choice. But how many kids that she would have within three 15 months and how many kids are going to be out there within 16 six months, et cetera and so forth. And I'd like to see not 17 only the number that she sets, but a couple of little items 18 under that, how she's going to achieve that number. As an 19 example, you know, I'm going to have "X" amount of kids out 20 there in 90 days, and I want to put together a flyer of some 21 sort that lists all of our things that we do at this 22 facility and mail it to every person that -- every county or 23 every -- whoever she deals with, probation officers or 24 whoever, those kinds of things. A letter from the 25 Commissioners Court saying, "We welcome you; please come 9-12-05 168 1 in," whatever -- whatever those little steps that it would 2 take to achieve that number. And that's -- and I'm not -- 3 I'm not trying to ding her or cause her any more trouble. 4 That would help her. Setting goals is always a good -- a 5 good thing to do, and I -- I'd like to see that. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree with that. I 7 think it's also good -- I think we need to keep that 8 facility in front of us all year. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, absolutely. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think I -- when you 11 said quarterly, I recommend we do it with her -- currently, 12 every other month she's coming before us now. I'd rather do 13 it every other month. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I would prefer it 15 every other month, but I didn't want to put a load on 16 anybody. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I just think we 18 incorporate it into her every-other-month report, 2 o'clock 19 report to us. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just -- 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I agree. I 22 think we need to hear that in terms of goal setting or 23 reporting and the status where we are, and what's in the 24 conduit and how we're going to get them in. I agree. I 25 think right now she's at about 73 percent, and we were 9-12-05 169 1 talking about budgeting at 80 percent, so she's getting kind 2 of close. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: By setting benchmarks -- by 4 her setting benchmarks, we are also able to see where we 5 stand in relation to those benchmarks. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I think that's very critical. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: True. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Because if -- if we're 10 materially short of those benchmarks, we may want to be 11 considering what action we need to take. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Exactly, I agree. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's exactly what I 15 was thinking about. You know, if a basketball team gets in 16 the dressing room and goes out on the court to play ball and 17 there's no goals out there, the game's not played. So, you 18 know, you got to set goals and you got to have goals, and I 19 think in county government, this is a perfect place to apply 20 that. And it would be healthy for her, as well as us being 21 able to keep an eye on it as well. So -- 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree with you. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, you're the 24 liaison, so you're going to fix that? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I thought I was 9-12-05 170 1 liaison by court order. I haven't talked to the woman in a 2 long, long time, so I think Mr. Williams can be able to 3 handle that. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We don't need to -- 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We'll work it out. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I wanted to talk about 7 the Sheriff's deputies, where we are in that. How many did 8 we lay off, and is there any way to put anything back on? 9 Or did we do that this morning? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I believe there's two 11 actually gone. One was an unfilled position. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So there's actually 13 just one? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Two -- no, there's 15 actually two. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, the unfilled -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I don't mean 18 unfilled; I mean the military leave one. The military leave 19 one, we're not -- it's there, but we're not funding that 20 one. So, there's two -- 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- deputies -- patrol 23 deputies. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You had four, gave us 25 one back with the cut in laptop computers, so we were two 9-12-05 171 1 patrol short. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: But no one's leaving 3 the payroll? 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: One is -- one position 5 -- no, because I had an opening in the jail. But he is 6 getting a -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, one spot, 'cause 8 you have an open spot. No one's leaving the payroll, but 9 there's two less patrol deputies. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No involuntary 11 termination; we're just moving deputies. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, that's what I 13 was looking for. You happy with that? 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The only part I'm not 17 happy with is cutting it down to where we're going to have 18 three officers patrolling 1,100 square miles. I'm not happy 19 with that. If I've got an officer out west -- and I tried 20 to explain some of this. If he's out west on a call, and 21 the officer out east is on a call -- on a family violence 22 call, which are very common, then the guy in central, if you 23 only have three, is already backing up the guy out east, so 24 that guy west, if he gets a family violence call, he is on 25 his own. DPS doesn't work 24-hour shifts any more in this 9-12-05 172 1 county. They haven't for years, okay? That one man out 2 west is going to be by himself. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You realize that -- 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Out west, or 5 anywhere? 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Huh? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Out west or -- 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Out west, or if the 9 shifts -- you know, depending if it's a guy out east, okay, 10 and the guy on the west has a call that's family violence. 11 As y'all have seen, two officers go on family violence. 12 They're just too dangerous if you don't. Then your central 13 guy has to go back up the one out west, which leaves the guy 14 east totally by himself. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Whichever way, if you 16 have two family violence calls, you don't -- 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: At one time. Or, like, 18 this morning early, there was a wreck on -- on 16 North, 19 okay. Ended up taking four officers, 'cause it was before 20 daylight, and we had to have red lights out there for 21 traffic control. This was before 6 o'clock. I don't -- I 22 just can't -- the chief and I have sat down and -- and I 23 know, you know, some people think we have too many employees 24 or whatever, but I honestly sat down, gentlemen, and tried 25 to look at this, and there is no way around that it's going 9-12-05 173 1 to put three officers on the road at times, and I just do 2 not think that's appropriate for this county. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Rusty, I remember 4 going through budgets a long time ago when Sheriff Greeson 5 was here, and I can't tell you how long ago that was, but it 6 was a long time ago. And he did exactly that; he had three 7 men cover the entire county. Sometimes two. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: When I took office, 9 there was a lot of times that there was three, and this 10 Court assisted us in getting it taken care of where we 11 didn't have those problems. And -- and I -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How much has the 13 population grown in the last 10 years? 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: A lot, especially out in 15 the county. Used to be city population was more than 16 county. As we all know, in the last census, the county's 17 population is more than the city, and a lot of their shifts 18 are seven per shift. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm inclined to try to 20 fix that. I think we found some money through the District 21 Attorney's office by cutting out two people there. And I 22 know my colleague in Precinct 2 is getting ready to hit me, 23 so I'm going to duck when I say this, but if we go to Page 24 102, Parks, can we look at that budget again? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What tab are you in? 9-12-05 174 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tab 2. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I'm of a mind 3 to fix it, okay? I think the Sheriff has made a compelling 4 case, and I'd like to see it fixed. Now, the question is, 5 how do we fix it? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. And I'm wondering 7 if there is anything in the Parks budget, which is primarily 8 Flat Rock. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let's see what we 10 got. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Due to some 12 improvements -- 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We can probably cough 14 up 25,000. Will that help? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How about -- 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We got to do a bridge 17 there. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, that's right. 25, so 19 we reduce that to 35,000. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If y'all had already 22 figured back in the overtime increase, you can take -- you 23 can take that back out, part of that. Remember, we talked 24 about that. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So we just -- we just 9-12-05 175 1 funded one of them. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, we take out -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Take the 25,000 out 4 of Parks. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Parks goes to 35,000. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: All right. Just 7 leave enough money there to do the bridge. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 102, Tab 2. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm looking for it. 10 Yeah, we'll give back 25. And the overtime factor? Do you 11 remember what that was? 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We were adding 20,000 to 13 the deputies and 10 -- or 20,000 to the jail and 10 to the 14 deputies. So, it was 10 to the Sheriff's Office 20 to the 15 jail. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why were we adding to the 17 jail? 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Because without the 19 deputies, we were going to have to have a whole lot more 20 jailers doing hospital guard duty and everything else on top 21 of all that. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So you could add back 23 30,000. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. If Tommy had 25 already added that into that, you can take that and add it 9-12-05 176 1 back, so we can get back to trying to cover it a lot better. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: 'Cause right now, the 4 Sheriff's Office overtime is 15, I believe, Judge. And -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Jail shows 15. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Sheriff's was -- we may 7 have upped it. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Sheriff is -- if I can find it 9 here. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, between that 11 and what we got from the District Attorney and the 12 overtime -- 13 JUDGE TINLEY: 20,000 at the Sheriff, I 14 believe is what I'm showing. 15 and 20, jail and Sheriff. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Leave it at 15 and 20, 16 and not add the additional y'all talked about the other day. 17 Is that what we did? I thought it was 13 and 16 last year. 18 I don't have my budget printout with me for last year. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, this is after 31 August 20 that this run was made. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. It was 15 and 20. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Did we add some to -- 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah, I've got it 24 here somewhere. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: -- jail or Sheriff overtime? 9-12-05 177 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I thought it was at 30; 2 20 and 30, I thought we added. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, at the last meeting 4 before this one, you added 20 and 10. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's right. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How much? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 20 and 10. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 20 and 10. 20 to the 9 Sheriff's and 10 to jail. 10 MR. TOMLINSON: No, it was the other way 11 around. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 20 jail, 10 Sheriff. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: So, we're going back to 15 and 14 20. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: It never has been added yet. 16 So -- 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That do it? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And with those other 20 reductions, that basically pays for those two deputies. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I worry about three 22 on a shift too, Rusty, and that -- it's too big a county to 23 do it right that way. But, again, we're going the wrong 24 direction. We're an expensive, overstaffed county, and 25 we're -- 9-12-05 178 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I understand your 2 feelings, but we have still lost three actual positions, 3 four on top of it, and all the cars that you're -- in just 4 this one budget. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Tell the Court why we 6 can't use a warrant deputy? 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The warrant -- my 8 problem with warrant deputies is -- as I've tried to explain 9 the other day, warrant deputies entail our outside work 10 program officer, okay? He's part of that division. The 11 civil deputy is overloaded, and we're all trying to serve 12 civil, all right? Charlie Witt, who is supposed to be a 13 warrant, is making a lot of T.D.C. transfers and helping 14 civil. George McHorse is the other warrants. He is making 15 a lot of the court duties and warrants, and Crimestoppers 16 he's got as part of his bailiwick, and civil, because we 17 just have too much. And then the last warrant is Carroll 18 Schultz, who is averaging right now anywhere between 6,000 19 and 10,000 miles a month transporting inmates. Because what 20 we do in this county, unlike all those other ones, is all 21 our warrants that are entered in TCIC and NCIC, the state 22 and national computer if we're capable, and then they get 23 arrested and we go serve them, we have to go pick them up. 24 That takes a warrant officer to do that transport. Those 25 other counties, a lot of what you see, they don't enter 9-12-05 179 1 warrants in those national and state computers, just because 2 they don't have the manpower to go pick them up or spend 3 that time, so they don't do that. So, some of those may 4 have 5,000 warrants outstanding. We have 2,000 as it is, 5 and that's all deputies trying to serve them. They're all 6 entered in our system, but we try and keep some specifically 7 serving them, and other ones are on the road all the time 8 trying to bring them back. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rusty, the only thing 10 that I'll ask is that, since you're able to keep four 11 deputies on patrol if we add these two back in, and we're 12 going to keep one spot in the -- one position, but not fund 13 it, the military leave position, at some point when we -- 14 when that is decided that person is not coming back, that 15 position gets deleted. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I agree. I have no 17 problem with that. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Rusty, the one 19 function you have that seems to me like it's not essential, 20 that wouldn't -- if you eliminated, wouldn't be much 21 noticed, is the D.A.R.E. position. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think the D.A.R.E. 23 position is a very important position, now more than ever, 24 'cause we did away with all the S.R.O.'s, and our one 25 D.A.R.E. officer teaches all the school districts inside 9-12-05 180 1 Kerr County, whether it be the city of Kerrville, Ingram, 2 Hunt, Divide, Center Point, and that's teaching young kids 3 the drug resistance and that, which I think is very 4 important, and I know the members of this audience have kids 5 that have gone through that program. And I just -- you 6 know, that program, except for the salary -- and that's a 7 very expensive program, because all the workbooks, just like 8 textbooks and that, every bit of that stuff is always paid 9 for by total donation. The car she's driving is paid for by 10 seized money. The only thing that entire position costs 11 this county is that one employee's salary, and I think 12 that's an investment that is very good overall to the entire 13 county for our kids. I know my kids went through it when 14 they were younger, and I just think it's an important 15 position. And then, during the summertime, that position is 16 used to help do female transports, so it's not like they're 17 off -- we don't pay that position any overtime, although 18 there's a lot of it during the school year, because they do 19 do functions with those kids and evening functions and that. 20 And what we do is that that's the only position in the 21 Sheriff's Department that actually builds up comp time. 22 They get the comp time, then, during the summer; they take 23 it all off then. We use them for transports. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But the military 9-12-05 181 1 position, I agree with you, Jonathan, that we'd eliminate a 2 position if that would come back. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let's look at the 4 District Clerk's pages there. I got Page 24 under Tab 9. 5 District Clerk made a case that her employees are largely 6 underclassified; that the 12's ought to move to 13's, and 7 the 13's ought to move to 14's to be comparable to the same 8 level of qualifications in other departments. Have we 9 disposed of that issue? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't think we did. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: No. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I wasn't sure if it was 13 just in her department or the overall situation. 14 MS. UECKER: No. No, it was in the County 15 Clerk's, Tax Assessor, and whatever office position had 12's 16 and 13's. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How many do we have in 18 that category, Barbara? 19 MS. NEMEC: Which one, 13 or 12? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Twelve. 21 MS. NEMEC: Whole bunch. 22 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 23 MS. NEMEC: About 16. 24 MS. PIEPER: I have seven 12's in my office 25 alone. 9-12-05 182 1 MS. NEMEC: Okay. Ms. Rector has six 12's 2 and two 13's. Jannett, you said you have seven? 3 MS. PIEPER: I have seven 12's and I have -- 4 and one 13. 5 MS. NEMEC: And then Linda's office has three 6 13's. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's -- I don't 8 think we can deal with that this year. That's too many 9 reclassifications. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We could deal with it 11 by virtue of future hires, however, if, as, and when we have 12 any. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's not fair. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: No, that would not be fair. 15 If we do it with some future hires, we're obligated to those 16 comparable employees that are already on staff; it would be 17 necessary that we do that then. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, one office that I 19 would be more inclined to try to help this year would be the 20 County Clerk; she gave up an employee. And I think we have 21 shown a record of allowing that, so if there's a way to make 22 some adjustments there or change -- obviously, you have to 23 change responsibilities around. I don't know that we can 24 address that with all your staff this year, but if you 25 change responsibilities around, I think there is an adjust 9-12-05 183 1 -- you know, an appropriate adjustment of one or two people, 2 possibly. And that's what we did with the District Clerk 3 several years ago when she reduced staff. So, if you can 4 come back to us with that, look at how you reorganize -- 5 MS. UECKER: No, you gave that money to the 6 Sheriff, remember? That's what's you told me you were going 7 to do, but the Sheriff got the money. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I got Bruce's. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You look upon the 10 Sheriff as just a big sponge? 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 12 MS. UECKER: Yeah. 13 (Discussion off the record.) 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But that can be done 15 possibly after budget. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They consider me a 17 leech. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you want us to take a vote 19 in this room, Sheriff? 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I didn't think so. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just a little levity, 23 Sheriff. 24 MS. UECKER: Well, and I think that 25 situation, Commissioner Nicholson, has -- affects a couple 9-12-05 184 1 of people in Rusty's staff as well. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah, the 12 and that 3 would. 4 MS. UECKER: The 12's. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We just don't have the 6 budget to do it. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Can't deal with it 8 this year. 9 MS. UECKER: What about the merit increases? 10 I had asked for a merit increase. When will we know what 11 the numbers are in our budgets so we can go back and look at 12 them and see what -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably after today, 14 Tommy will make a run sometime middle -- end of the week. I 15 imagine Tommy would like us to quit making these changes 16 before he makes the final run. 17 MR. TOMLINSON: Already killed about six or 18 eight trees. 19 MS. UECKER: So, does that mean we're not 20 going to add my merit increases at all? Or -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think there's likely no 22 increases, other than people who are changing 23 responsibilities and things of that nature. Jannett may 24 have some because of reduction in staff. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Quick question on 9-12-05 185 1 J.P. budgets. I have some notes here that -- something 2 about software maintenance; that shouldn't be budgeted, 3 because it's paid for out of the -- 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which tab are you on? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 10. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: 10, Page 20. 7 MR. TOMLINSON: That's dealt with. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You've taken care of 9 that? 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's been dealt 11 with? Okay. County Treasurer's office. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Commissioner, would 13 you help us? 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Sorry? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do I have to research 16 down here? 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I mean Tab 13. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Item 37, there was 20 some question about the group insurance, 20,907, being a 21 very high number compared to 11,000 last year. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 23 MS. NEMEC: That was because I was asking for 24 insurance coverage for my part-time person due to another 25 person having insurance. However, I haven't discussed this 9-12-05 186 1 with my part-timer, but being that we're in the budget 2 crunch that we are, and being able to save her position, I 3 don't think we need to discuss that. We'll just drop it 4 back to two. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So you essentially 6 don't have any changes in the personnel costs, except 7 escalation? 8 MS. NEMEC: Right. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: By definition, a 10 part-time person -- the reason that they're part-time is 11 because they don't get benefits. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: I'll -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait just a second, 14 Tommy. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: Well -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait just a second. 17 Let me ask the question. 18 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or let her answer the 20 question. Isn't that -- isn't that right? I mean, that -- 21 if you work under 19 hours, you don't get benefits. 22 MS. NEMEC: My part-timer doesn't work under 23 19 hours. She gets retirement benefits. She is part-time 24 full-time. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. Okay. So -- 9-12-05 187 1 yeah. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Forgot about that 3 category. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Forgot about that one. 5 MS. NEMEC: Right. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: On the insurance regs, is not 7 the break at 30 hours a week? 8 MS. NEMEC: 32. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: 32 now? 10 MR. TOMLINSON: Let me answer the confusion 11 here. I am that person that she's talking about. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. 13 MR. TOMLINSON: But when I was hired in 1990, 14 that was part of the consideration upon which I was hired, 15 that I would go to work part-time for insurance, so that's 16 -- that's part of my salary. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Tommy, we made a 18 good decision back there, and I'm glad you've been around. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: So, I mean -- so, I mean, 20 when the Judge -- when I was appointed in 1990, I was 21 appointed as a part-time, and that's never changed. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm on Page 21 -- 24 Tab 21, Page 62. Environmental Health. We had a request 25 there for additional staff and additional pay, and I think 9-12-05 188 1 what we decided was to stay with the same staff, and the pay 2 changes would be the cost-of-living increases only. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: That's my understanding of 4 where we are. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, on our 7 Inspector's Salaries, that goes away? 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, no new staff. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And then on the next 11 page, Page 63, there was some question about the capital 12 outlay. My note says, "Need to lease a four-wheel drive, 13 but wait till next year." So, does that $3,600 go to zero? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. Boy, you guys 16 are answering my questions -- 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, it's in here. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- expeditiously. 19 That's all. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Your turn. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I've done most of them. 22 Only two that I have -- I hate to bring up the library 23 again, -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We got some 25 information on it. 9-12-05 189 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- but we have a budget. 2 Though I might note it came from the City of Kerrville legal 3 department, which I don't know that they can make budgets, 4 but I presume it's an accurate budget. It came from Ilse. 5 As I look at this, they are asking us -- well, they don't 6 break it out in a way that I can -- they don't really break 7 it out. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They don't. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They don't break it out 10 according to the contract they sent to us. The front page 11 is a summary page, but it includes capital expenditures. It 12 includes, I think -- I don't know how they're breaking out 13 certain salaries, whether -- that are oversight over things 14 that we're not paying for. So, I really -- I see the 15 number, but I'm not sure that it -- I don't see how it 16 equates to the contract they sent. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I have some of 18 your same concerns, and I had highlighted a few things 19 before we gave Dave a copy, and he hadn't even seen it. But 20 some of the ways they categorize some of this stuff is kind 21 of -- it's not instructive; let me put it that way. It is 22 difficult. But under Maintenance Repairs, we got Building 23 and Structures. Building and Structures is 35 thousand, 24 five. Under Miscellaneous Services, we have something 25 listed as Special Services, which I don't understand. Under 9-12-05 190 1 Capital Outlay is -- we have books and records, which I 2 don't understand. Somebody help me. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Anyway, I think that -- 4 I'm really bringing it up as much for Rex, 'cause I guess 5 Rex and Dave are the two that are trying to negotiate the 6 contract. I mean, if I was to open it up, look at this 7 budget, on the front page it says Expenditures, and it says 8 Operating Expenditures, and then it says $901,000. But as I 9 go back through here, there's a whole lot more than 10 operating expenditures in Operating Expenditures, such as 11 capital expenditures. So, I mean, I'm still -- I'm at the 12 same loss I was at this morning; just now I have numbers in 13 front of me to make me more confused. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What would be really 15 helpful is, like, everybody else outside of our government 16 that wants us to share funds with them, if they'd come in 17 here and ask us for what they want and tell us why they need 18 it. I'd like to see the Library Director come in here, just 19 like other -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I would too. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, anyway, that's -- 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is there a reason we 23 can't do that? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Letz might 25 enlighten you. 9-12-05 191 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That rule is just for 2 Letz. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You all can talk to City 4 staff; I can't. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm going to. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, in the good old 7 days, we used to have joint meetings in which those 8 department heads would be available to answer questions. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Anyway, so I just brought 10 the library up because we did get -- I didn't want it to be 11 misreported that we never had received a budget. We have 12 received a budget; it's just that it doesn't coincide with 13 the contract. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think Rex and I 15 can deal with the contract issues along the lines that you 16 advised us this morning, but I would like to see somebody 17 from the City explain the budget. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The other two items that 19 I have, one is a general item. I thought long and hard 20 about trying to bring this up again, and I decided I'll -- I 21 don't have the knowledge that -- to discuss all this for 22 this year's budget, but I would like to look at, in all 23 departments that are elected -- or run by an elected 24 official, what things those offices are doing that are not 25 statutory. And I'm thinking of passports, I'm thinking of 9-12-05 192 1 personnel, I'm thinking of Law Library. I'm thinking -- I 2 don't know if Jannett does any or not. Because I do think 3 there is a -- manpower and dollars to be saved by 4 consolidating some of these functions. And I think -- you 5 know, I don't know how a lot of these things were done 6 historically; they got pushed somewhere to get someone to do 7 them, because no one -- that just was the way it was done. 8 And I don't know how much time is really being taken up by 9 these jobs, but I'd like to get from those departments -- 10 and there may be some others -- sometime, you know, before 11 we forget about it, or before I forget, which will probably 12 be the next couple of months, exactly what we're talking 13 about personnel-wise. And the City, if there are savings 14 that can be done by consolidating and moving some of these 15 things -- and Rex is looking into, I know everyone is quite 16 aware of, an Attorney General's opinion that says that 17 Commissioners Court, once we approve a budget and personnel 18 for a department, we can't change that during the year. But 19 that probably -- Rex is looking into it, but it may not 20 cover nonstatutory functions. So, those changes can be made 21 possibly during the year, if needed. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's an excellent 23 idea. And I remember, a week or two ago, Commissioner 24 Nicholson talking about laying aside several issues that he 25 had outlined to deal with in the off-season, and -- and I 9-12-05 193 1 think that's a fantastic idea. If we could start, like, in 2 March or April, start dealing with these issues, and just 3 let the -- and then just let it draw us right into the 4 budget process. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Pushes it off three or 6 four months longer than I wanted. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We can start it off 8 any time you want to. I don't know what off-season is 9 exactly. I mean, I know there's a draft in there somewhere. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the other point I 11 have is that -- it's on a note from the Judge related to 12 Ms. Mitchell's, I guess, level. There was a -- at one 13 point, when her -- two-step increase? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It was a two-step 16 increase that was contemplated when there was an adding of a 17 supervisory position, which did not happen. However, we did 18 at least -- at the moment, we have added more responsibility 19 to that position, being booking and things of that nature. 20 I don't know how that equates, but I think we need to decide 21 what that -- what that does to that salary position. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, you're talking 23 about added -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Added work. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- added duties, added 9-12-05 194 1 work. Are you talking about the booking -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- issue? I'm still 4 not convinced that we're going to do that. I mean, are we 5 going to do that? Bring the booking to the Commissioners 6 Court? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I think we 8 ought to have a little talk about whether it is advisable to 9 do that. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's exactly what 11 I'm saying. It's easy for you to say. I just think that we 12 need to talk about it. Is that -- is that the right thing 13 to do? Is there a better way? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think the -- I 15 mean, from my view, if it's going to stay a county 16 responsibility, it's what needs to be done. The other topic 17 that has been floated is to put it with Convention and 18 Visitors Bureau, and I'm a little uneasy putting that over 19 there at this time. I think that, you know, it's kind of -- 20 that has not run smoothly for several years. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What hasn't? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Booking and rental of 23 that facility hasn't probably run smoothly since I've been a 24 Commissioner. But I just think that it's -- by pushing it 25 off on another agency when it's still our responsibility, 9-12-05 195 1 I'm not sure that's the way to do it. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, recognizing 3 that there are a lot of details that have to be worked out, 4 and I acknowledge that, I advanced that idea, because, first 5 of all, we talked about getting it out of our house. We've 6 got a big house here. And, secondly, if we're going to do 7 that, why not consider putting it in somebody's house who 8 deals with booking facilities and knows what comes to town 9 and wants to come to town, or into the county or into the 10 city in terms of meetings and other things? So, it seemed 11 to me that it was a pretty good fit. Now, I recognize there 12 are a lot of details we'd have to work out; what would be 13 expected -- what we would expect and what, in return, would, 14 for example, C.V.B. expect? I would hasten to say right now 15 that, first of all, the C.V.B. has not taken an action 16 approving doing this, but I have had a discussion, as has 17 Commissioner Baldwin, with Sudie Burditt of C.V.B., and 18 there's interest in that. But there are a lot of details 19 that have to be worked out. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Basically, we would be 21 -- the way I see it, we would contract with them, and 22 they -- they take some of the money off, so they're paid to 23 do -- do the booking. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And there are a 25 couple ways to address the finances, yeah. We could either 9-12-05 196 1 -- either do it by a contract or a flat fee to do the 2 booking, or they can take a piece off the top of the rental, 3 right off the top, whatever rentals there are. There's a 4 lot of ways to skin this cat. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I just -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You may be right. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, this is just a -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I certainly have 9 opposed that in years past. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think it falls, 11 Commissioner, in the same category that you're talking about 12 in terms of other synergies or -- or abilities to -- to 13 limit our growth, and look at ways to save in terms of 14 manpower and expenses. It probably requires us to decide we 15 want to sit down and talk about it and engage C.V.B. in a 16 discussion to see whether or not they would like that idea, 17 approve that idea, and what conditions they might want to 18 attach to it that may or may not be acceptable to us. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess what I have -- my 20 concern is at the moment, all of a sudden, we put that 21 facility -- well, one, Convention and Visitors Bureau, is it 22 independent? My boy-dummy question. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, it is. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the money comes from 25 the city primarily. 9-12-05 197 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It comes from bed 2 tax, period. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: From bed tax, okay. So, 4 they're funded by the bed tax. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I'm not -- I think 7 there's just too much to work out. I would rather bring it 8 up here, say that's where it's going. If we decide to move 9 it later during the year, we can move it later during the 10 year, you know. I have a hard time understanding -- I 11 don't -- you know, maybe I'm really wrong on this, but I 12 just don't see that this should take that much time, that we 13 should pay someone a whole lot in an outside contract to do 14 it, or to give them a percentage of it. It doesn't make a 15 whole lot of sense to me. I'm not real sure how that whole 16 department, then, interacts with our Maintenance Department 17 that has to do all the setup and cleanup and all that. All 18 of a sudden, we're having our staff reporting to another 19 agency. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, you're making a 21 strong case to leave it alone. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, I don't think it 23 belongs in Maintenance. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I had two concerns. 25 One was the same as your first one that you didn't quite get 9-12-05 198 1 to, and that is, is the Convention and Visitors Bureau -- 2 are they an arm of the City? And I don't want the City in 3 that facility out there, involved in it in any way, unless 4 they want to rent it. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or give us money. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Huh? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or give us money. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or give us money, 9 which they had the opportunity a couple years ago and chose 10 not to do. Or -- and, I mean, let's face it. If -- if we 11 contracted with C.V.B., they're going to be back within less 12 than a year telling us that we have to have a $5 million 13 facility; it's just not good enough. And that's a natural 14 thing, and it's the truth, but they're going to be in here 15 saying that. So, you know, that's two negatives, far as I'm 16 concerned. But the positive -- two positives is, the 17 headache gets away from here, and number two, they are 18 professionals and they can book the thing and -- and do it 19 right, and do a bang-up job of it, and -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do they book anything 21 else? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- make more money. I 23 have no idea. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pardon? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are they responsible for 9-12-05 199 1 any other facilities? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not that I'm aware 3 of. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I mean, I don't -- 5 I don't know that they do it right, then. I guess my point 6 is, they don't have a track record any more than -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, but they're in 8 the business, though, is what I'm saying. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Their track record is 10 the number of heads they put in beds every year. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's their track 13 record. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'd like to keep 15 it -- 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The number of 17 meetings that come to town. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'd like to keep it 19 in-house for now. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a deal. Anyone 21 want to move it to Commissioners Court? Okay. Kathy, good 22 luck. Now, do we have to get back to her salary thing? 23 That's really where we are, isn't it? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We started out -- 25 JUDGE TINLEY: That's what got us here. 9-12-05 200 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: First one of you guys 2 that says, "Where's Ms. Mitchell?" and the answer is, "She's 3 out at the Ag Barn," just remember this discussion. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, y'all had on the 5 table there, I think -- I somehow slept through this part, 6 but you had two steps or something. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't recall that 8 conversation, but that's what the note said from the Judge. 9 But I might have slept through this. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, this is a Judge 11 deal. Well, let him handle it, then. What do you want to 12 do, Judge? Make a motion. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: The reason it's on there is 14 prior -- prior to the run being made a week ago last 15 Wednesday, I guess -- last Wednesday, when there were some 16 adjustments being made for the run, it was anticipated at 17 that time there were going to be a number of functions -- 18 personnel functions out of the Treasurer's office moved 19 upstairs. Based upon that, and Commissioner Nicholson and I 20 were unlucky enough to remain behind for a few moments for 21 lunch, so we got tasked with giving the instructions to the 22 Auditor. Because of the supervisory duties that were going 23 to be placed on her, and there was discussion of that on 24 that basis, we had instructed a two-step increase to be 25 placed for her. And if there's going to be any additional 9-12-05 201 1 duties, you know, the Court's got to decide what it's going 2 to do, but it sounds to me like there's going to be some 3 additional duties. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Absolutely, there is. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would say -- what's a 6 two step -- that would go from a what to a what? What's -- 7 where are you now? 8 MS. NEMEC: Well, in the old schedule, so you 9 got to add 3.2 to that -- 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 11 MS. NEMEC: -- right now she's a 19-6, which 12 is 30,310. A two-step is 31,845, plus add 3.2 percent to 13 that. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My question was, if we -- 15 and this just makes -- I don't understand what was done by 16 the Judge, you know, on that two-step. If we added -- and 17 we're not doing this, so y'all settle down out there. If we 18 added supervisory responsibilities, wouldn't you change it, 19 like, to a 20 or something? 20 MS. NEMEC: 19 is supervisory 21 responsibilities. 22 MS. UECKER: It is supervisory. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You just go up on -- 24 MS. NEMEC: That is a chief deputy; you have 25 people under you. 9-12-05 202 1 MS. PIEPER: My chief deputy supervises 12 2 people. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Well, that's what 4 was done, then. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Well, I was just 6 telling you what the rationale was. And there was -- there 7 was discussion about if those -- if those functions were 8 moved and placed under -- under her oversight, and with an 9 additional employee, there was discussion about additional 10 compensation being given to her, so that was the reason that 11 was done. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Is she going to 14 have someone to supervise? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: No, not now. It was after 17 that the decision was made that that -- that would not 18 occur; at least those functions would not occur. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Personnel functions. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What do we do, then? 22 What's your -- what's your recommendation we do with the -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, if she's going to have 24 some additional duties, but not -- but not all of those, we 25 may need to maybe consider a one-step. Or if there's going 9-12-05 203 1 to be none, we need to put her back where she -- where she 2 is now, I would say. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm going to ask a 4 question of Mr. Holekamp. Are you back there, Mr. Holekamp? 5 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir, I am. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Reasonably, what 7 amount of time every week does the individual in your 8 department spend with respect to booking our facility? 9 (Discussion off the record.) 10 MR. HOLEKAMP: My best estimation, what I've 11 logged in several weeks of monitoring it, approximately 24 12 to 25 hours. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 24 to 25 hours spent. 14 MR. HOLEKAMP: Dedicated to booking, 15 answering responses, writing contracts, because you also 16 have the Union Church. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 18 MR. HOLEKAMP: And you make contacts at least 19 twice for every event, whether it be beforehand to show it, 20 and then the -- to decide whether they should pay and return 21 keys and that sort of thing afterwards. We get feedback 22 from everybody as to, you know, if the event -- event went 23 well or they had problems and that sort of thing. So, it'll 24 range between 20 and 24 hours, I would say, probably 25 realistically. And that's -- a lot of that time is that 9-12-05 204 1 time you spend in a vehicle going out there and doing all 2 these things. That's where the time comes in. If they were 3 out there, they probably would -- probably save five hours 4 or so out of the whole thing. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Well, I can 6 tell you right now, I'm not in favor -- I'd like to see 7 Ms. Mitchell get an additional salary, but I'm not in favor 8 of adding 20 to 25 hours of work to her already extended 9 workload. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think something's not 11 being done right if this takes that much time. 12 MR. HOLEKAMP: Well, I don't know. Okay. 13 All right, go ahead. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess -- I mean, it 15 doesn't -- the contracts -- you know, granted, maybe part of 16 the problems are, you know, that we don't have a good 17 contract and a good price -- a good schedule that we're 18 working on. But does the current person show it all the 19 time? They don't use any of the staff that's out there 20 working? 21 MR. HOLEKAMP: If they're available, we will, 22 yes. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And there's not somebody 24 out there a majority of the time at that facility? 25 MR. HOLEKAMP: Well, yeah, but they may be on 9-12-05 205 1 a tractor or -- or -- well, like today, they're changing out 2 a bunch of sprinkler heads. So, I mean, it's -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's -- it gets 4 into scheduling. I mean, people want to look at a 5 facility -- 6 MR. HOLEKAMP: Mm-hmm. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- but can't they say, 8 okay, we're going to show it from this time -- you know, 9 they just have to make it. I can't show up at whatever the 10 place is in -- the Taylor County facility just unannounced 11 and expect to see it, unless I've got a Commissioner with 12 me. 13 MR. HOLEKAMP: No, they normally call and set 14 it up. But a lot of the people that use our facility are 15 working people, and they like to do it during lunch or 16 5 o'clock or whatever, because it's -- like, for a private 17 party or whatever. We're -- I feel like we're in the people 18 business, or we try real hard to accommodate. Union Church 19 especially; those are people who are either getting married 20 or that sort of thing, and they want to look at the facility 21 and decide whether that's going to be suitable for them. 22 So, there's some time that's -- you know, and like I had 23 said, we could probably shave some time off of that, but I 24 really think, since we're in the public business, I don't 25 think we can say, well, I'm going to only show it, you know, 9-12-05 206 1 tomorrow afternoon between 3:00 and 5:00 or whatever. I -- 2 I think that we've really tried real hard to accommodate 3 people, and maybe we've spoiled them too. I don't -- you 4 know. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes -- yeah. Maybe 6 that's the best way. I just think that we'd be more 7 structured in that, because if we're spending that much time 8 for the revenue we're getting, that's not -- we're doing a 9 poor job of managing. 10 MR. HOLEKAMP: Well, yeah. But, there again, 11 is -- is there's -- quite a bit of the time is spent with 12 4-H lining up stuff with them, their events and that sort of 13 thing, too. So, how do you -- you know, maybe that's poor 14 planning on our part, but I feel like that that's our 15 responsibility, to work with these people. Now, if you -- 16 if you choose not to, you know, go to that much trouble for 17 the -- for the people that want to use the facility, that's 18 fine. We'll do whatever we're directed. But -- and I want 19 to change horses here. Y'all -- y'all are aware that last 20 Tuesday y'all approved a 48-bed facility for the juvenile 21 detention. With that, when I got my budget, there was a 22 position -- a maintenance person over there. I'm going to 23 take that one out, and I'm going to try to do within our -- 24 our means. That's going to save 20,000, 25,000, something 25 like that. We're going to give it a try. I think we can do 9-12-05 207 1 it. But all elected officials and all department heads are 2 going to have to understand, there is going to be somewhat 3 of a lag time between accomplishing after notification of 4 things that they wish. Because right now, we -- we pride 5 ourselves on our response time, but it probably will not be 6 quite like it was because I'm going to be so scattered out. 7 'Cause that facility is going to require 24 hours, 7 days a 8 week, maintenance person available to them. So, I -- I hope 9 y'all understand that we -- we cut one position out of 10 Maintenance in the budget. And -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Cutting a second one? 12 MR. HOLEKAMP: No, this is the one that I'm 13 cutting. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That feels right to 15 me. And I agree with you, your folks do a really good job 16 of janitorial work and maintenance, and we can tolerate just 17 a little bit less than that. 18 MR. HOLEKAMP: I appreciate that. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: They do fine work, 20 and if they can keep -- keep at it 90 percent or 80 percent, 21 that's good enough. 22 MS. PIEPER: But I don't -- but to go along 23 with -- you know, with the -- you know, to go back to the 24 barn somewhat, one of the problems we're going to run into 25 there is -- is people out there are going to have less time 9-12-05 208 1 being there. If we -- as far as setups and that sort of 2 thing, that's going to take longer if you only have one man 3 out there, so the turnaround may be affected somewhat. 4 Currently, I have two people that are pretty much there. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. What I -- 6 I never have understood is, you have an employee that is 7 maxed out with their work, and you start talking about 8 bringing on a new load, and so you offer that person... 9 If they're maxed out, what difference does an amount of money 10 have to do with it? See, I don't -- I never have been able to 11 get my brain around that. So, bringing -- bringing that 12 function up to the Commissioners Court and then paying our 13 administrative assistant more money to handle that, I don't -- 14 I just don't see how it works. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't either. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: When she's already -- 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Maybe this ought to 18 be part of our off-season work. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think it is. I 20 think it is. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Everybody ready to go to 22 off-season? 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm sure 24 Commissioner Letz is. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What time do we kick 9-12-05 209 1 off? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we'll be 3 discussing the same thing next year, but that's fine. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We might. Well, we 5 have to find a solution. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think this changes the 7 Maintenance situation, then, too, because the -- in our 8 plan, that was freeing up that person to do -- that 9 position; not the person, but that position, to be a 10 maintenance person, and that person is now going to be doing 11 something else. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think your next 13 agenda item is when we'll have a long visit about that. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's still -- 15 MS. UECKER: Make I make one comment when 16 you're done? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: When we're done? 18 MS. UECKER: Yeah. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Have we got any more on 20 the -- on any more of the budget items that we need to -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have one thing that 22 I -- I want to go back to the Juvenile Detention Facility 23 and this issue of, does the Kerr County taxpayers pay for 24 transporting kids from one county into ours and then back 25 home again? Where -- where did we land on that? 9-12-05 210 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think she told us 2 that only under very extenuating circumstances does she do 3 that. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I have heard her 5 say -- at least I heard her say -- that, no, we don't do 6 that at all, and then I turn around last week and heard her 7 say that only when they need help will we do it. I just 8 wanted to know, are we going to pay for transporting their 9 kids or not? Just a yes or no deal. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree with your 11 point, and I think we ought to establish a policy where, 12 extenuating circumstances or otherwise, the sending county 13 pays freight. The sending county pays the freight. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree 100 percent. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And I think it's 16 something we need to take up with Ms. Harris. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that's a contract and 19 an operation issue that comes under the -- doesn't really 20 affect this year's budget, but it does need to be discussed. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's just -- I just 22 don't think that we've really got to the bottom of that. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Are we through with the budget 24 items? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a couple 9-12-05 211 1 housekeeping, just so my notes reflect whether or not we 2 dispatched -- got rid of them or not. We talked about -- as 3 we have in the past, we've always accepted the State's 4 mileage figures -- state and/or fed. And Ms. Mitchell 5 confirmed today that the State Comptroller's office now is 6 at .405; is that correct? 7 MS. MITCHELL: 40.5. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And that would be our 9 mileage reimbursement fee for mileage outside the county, 10 correct? Secondly, we talked about mileage allowances 11 inside the county going from one to one-fifty. Did we ever 12 dispatch with that? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mileage allowances. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We did dispatch -- 15 MS. MITCHELL: Y'all said you were going to 16 go with whatever the state -- the Judge said whatever the 17 state mileage was going to be, that's what you were going to 18 go with. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm talking about 20 in-county allowance. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't think we 22 did, Commissioner. And I think, really, the only 23 significant issue is the J.P.'s. Should we -- should we 24 raise the part of their salary that's related to the -- what 25 used to be $1,200 a year? Which -- 9-12-05 212 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which is part of 2 their salary. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Raise? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Raise. Well, that 5 applies to more than just J.P.'s. Some of us use our 6 vehicles extensively. That's the reason I raised the 7 question, did we dispatch with it. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Do you know how far 9 it is from here to Garven Store? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's more than a 11 one-day deal. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not more than one 13 tank of gas, right, Commissioner? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But I think we ought 15 to leave that at the 1,200 that we'd rolled into the 16 salaries. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: On the -- on the 19 reimbursement, are we just going to tie that to the state, 20 period, with the exception of lodging, which will be actual 21 out-of-pocket per receipt? Whatever the state does, we just 22 float with it? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what I want to 25 do. 9-12-05 213 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We float with the 2 lodging, and we had a per diem allowance. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have a per diem and 4 use the state mileage. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Per diem mileage, and the 6 state has an $80 -- $85, I think, limit on lodging. But 7 heretofore, we have provided whatever the actual is, based 8 upon the receipt that you turn in, that's the reimbursement 9 rate. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The State's in a 11 better position to drive that wagon than we are in hotels 12 across the state where our meetings are conducted. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: So, it's lodging, actual 14 receipt; meals, per diem as per state; mileage reimbursement 15 as per state. Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Got one more that 17 needs some clarification. On the -- on the library contract 18 budget, we're going to invite the City of Kerrville to come 19 try to give us some answers to our questions? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think that's a great 21 idea. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: When would that be 23 that we ask them to do that? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Monday. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: 19th. 9-12-05 214 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And that's one 2 issue. And then, on cleaning up the two contracts, library 3 and animal, me and the County Attorney are going to ask the 4 City to sit down with us and -- and resolve the unresolved 5 issues that we took note of. 6 MR. EMERSON: I may be able to shed some 7 light on that. I talked to Ilse Bailey about the Animal 8 Control contract, and what we agreed to was she said just go 9 ahead and change all the exclusions back to the old article 10 numbers, because technically, their new ordinance doesn't 11 kick in until tomorrow, if they're going to approve it at 12 tomorrow's meeting. So, we can go back and change the 13 exclusions back exactly the way they were. Then it's up to 14 the City to roll them over to their new numbers. And as far 15 as the no dead animal pickup, they were in full agreement on 16 that. So -- 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm going to want to 18 see what they approve tomorrow, because there may be a need 19 for more exclusions than the ones we earlier enumerated. 20 For example, I saw in that order -- not order. What do you 21 call it? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ordinance. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Ordinance, that it 24 was a violation to be walking your dog on a leash and not 25 have the materials in your possession needed to clean up 9-12-05 215 1 after them, and we're not going to enforce that. So -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, but I think what I 3 heard Rex say, if we approve the concept in form, or not -- 4 in content today, then we're under the old rules. Is that 5 what you just said? If we approve it today, that we're 6 under -- 7 MR. EMERSON: Basically, we'll have all the 8 exclusions that were in the previous ordinances. And then, 9 that way, we'll have a contract in place and, theoretically, 10 they can approve it and budget it tomorrow. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That would be another 12 contract, and then just have to authorize, you know -- 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- the County Attorney 15 and Commissioner 4 to make sure the verbiage is correct. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Again, they can 17 choose to come in and talk about the budget or not. 18 Actually, it's kind of a moot point, since were not going to 19 pay what they're asking in any event, but I would like 20 answers. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We don't know what 22 they're asking, though. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I would like 24 answers, and Rex and I are going to clean up the language. 25 Okay. 9-12-05 216 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Hold it. Rex, do we need 3 to go back to -- should we go back and approve the Animal 4 Control contract, then, today? Or is it okay just to leave 5 it the way it is and -- 6 MR. EMERSON: I think it would facilitate 7 things if you could approve it, but if Commissioner 8 Nicholson's not comfortable with the language, then -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I mean, I think we 10 can approve it based on you all agreeing -- subject to the 11 County Attorney and Commissioner 4 agreeing to the language. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let's do that. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can we do that for 14 both of them? 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Just Animal Control. 16 The language on the agenda item allows approval, so I'll 17 move that we approve -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Got to go back to that 19 agenda item. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll second that. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Let 22 me first -- first do the cleanup on this -- this agenda 23 item. Are we through with budget items here? 24 MS. UECKER: I just have a comment. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I tell you what. Let's take a 9-12-05 217 1 15-minute recess, and we'll come back then, 'cause I need to 2 give her a rest. Let's take a 15-minute recess. 3 (Recess taken from 3:13 p.m. to 3:30 p.m.) 4 - - - - - - - - - - 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's come back to 6 order. We were in recess for about 15 minutes. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, before we leave 8 the budget, -- 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- two things. I would 11 like to bring up a conversation with department heads and 12 elected officials during the break. One, the Road and 13 Bridge budget, if Len, when he is back in town, can -- they 14 really want this dump truck that we cut out of the budget. 15 I said if they can find other areas they would rather cut 16 52,000 out of their budget, they can make that swap, and -- 17 as long as it doesn't affect any roads in my precinct. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That'll work. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Should enhance your 20 roads. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, no, I don't want any 22 roads in my precinct being cut to get that dump truck. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That might help your 24 two roads. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Judge, I've got one 9-12-05 218 1 update, just to make sure everybody's on the same page. Me 2 and the County Attorney, working at the speed of lightning, 3 faster than a speeding bullet, have arranged with -- 4 informed the City that if they want to explain the library 5 budget, they can do that next Monday morning between 9:00 6 and 10:00, and we've asked the City to arrange to meet with 7 us to work out the details on the two contracts. That's 8 where we stand. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One final note. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Wait, wait, before you 13 get back over to that one. So, Tommy, is that -- you'll 14 listen to Leonard's -- if he can come up with a way to -- 15 and if he can -- and it can be done as a budget amendment; 16 doesn't have to be done -- the dollars aren't going to 17 change. 18 MR. TOMLINSON: I'd just as soon leave it 19 like it is. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Handle it as a budget 21 amendment or whenever. The other item is that we mentioned 22 with the County Clerk, cutting that one position, that it 23 will require some adjustments, or should require some 24 adjustments in her staff. And I just recommend that we let 25 her add one step to whichever employee she feels is going to 9-12-05 219 1 be impacted by that reduction in staff, and that she can 2 just get with the Treasurer and get that worked out there. 3 One step to one employee. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a fair trade. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 6 MS. UECKER: Can I make a comment? Just -- 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You've been trying for a 9 long time, Linda. 10 MS. UECKER: I could -- no, I'm not going to 11 touch your sensitive spot today, okay? (Laughter.) Look 12 at -- I'm not going to get that stuff on my hands. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What stuff? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think you want to 15 go there, Bill. 16 MS. UECKER: Look at my budget. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What tab are you? 18 MS. UECKER: I have no idea. I don't even 19 have it with me. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: District Clerk, 9. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Nine. 22 MS. UECKER: I just want to call to your 23 attention -- look at deputy clerks. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Seven. 25 MS. UECKER: Look at last year's actual. 9-12-05 220 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Last year's? Or this 2 year's? 3 MS. UECKER: Or this year's actual. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Estimated actual? 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: 153,448. 6 MS. UECKER: And what's requested? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 187,001. 8 MS. UECKER: Well, that was -- that includes 9 some -- a merit, and that includes the COLA and everything. 10 But look at -- see, this year's is down from last year's. 11 Do you see that? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The original budget was 13 196 for this year? 14 MS. UECKER: Right. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that the number you 16 want me to say? 17 MS. UECKER: That's the number I want you to 18 say. I just want to call your attention to that fact, and 19 it hasn't been mentioned, but my Deputy Clerks line item is 20 down a position. Also -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why didn't you tell us 22 that before? 23 MS. UECKER: You had the dang budget. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I gave you a gold 25 star; it's right here. 9-12-05 221 1 MS. UECKER: I know. But what I'm trying to 2 get at is, certain people get more gold stars for doing the 3 same thing. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I gave you a gold star, too. 5 MS. UECKER: You did? Well, in going back to 6 the statutory duty, Jonathan, I have no problem with that, 7 but if you're going to look at the statutory duties of the 8 elected officials, let's make it all department heads. 9 Let's make it the whole county. No, I don't have to do 10 passports. But, as Glenn said, we're in the people 11 business, and we have flowed that right into our office very 12 smoothly without an increase in duties, but I don't have a 13 problem giving it up. But, like I said, we're in the people 14 business -- that's what Glenn said. We're here to provide a 15 service to the citizens. I don't know who's going to do it. 16 I don't care. The Law Library, I'd give you that in a 17 minute. I'll give you that in a flash, 'cause that is a 18 pain in my rear. But just to remind you, that money can't 19 be spent for anything else. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sure. It's just -- the 21 only thing I'm looking at -- there may not be a way to save 22 anything. It's just, overall, it seems that some of these 23 functions, if there's a way to consolidate some of them, 24 it's good to do it. If there's not, there's not. 25 MS. UECKER: Well, if you're going to try to 9-12-05 222 1 eliminate statutory duties, though, I mean, you might think 2 about booking. You might think about airport. You might 3 think about all kinds of things. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's not eliminating; 5 we just may consolidate where they're being done. Because, 6 obviously, things that are -- you're required to do by 7 statute, you have to do that, or someone in that position. 8 But some things are flexible as to where they're done. 9 MS. UECKER: Now, there is -- the Government 10 Code, I think it's 51.086, does provide for the District 11 Clerk to do passports. It's not statutory; that's right, 12 but it does provide that the District Clerk can assess a 13 fee. And even on the passport applications, it specifies 14 that that fee goes to the District Clerk. Now, I know Thea 15 collected it. How legal that was, I'm not sure. Don't 16 care, as long as we got the money. But -- so -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You get the money even if 18 someone else collects it? Boy, that's a good deal. 19 MS. UECKER: I don't know. That's fine with 20 me. But I just wanted to call your attention that my 21 deputies line item is, in fact, down. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thank you. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the only comment I'll 24 make, 'cause half positions or part-time positions are not 25 ideal, in my mind. I think, you know, they work out 9-12-05 223 1 sometimes, just because they work out best, you know, to 2 make adjustments. And it just looks to me, between -- if 3 there's a way that we can -- we can get rid of several 4 halftime positions and create a full time, it can -- I don't 5 care what department some of these things go into. It's 6 just a matter of what's the best way to do it. 7 MS. UECKER: Let me add to that, that this 8 year I don't have a part-time any more. I've given that one 9 up, too. So -- and because of -- of some of the plans that 10 we implemented last year, I was able to do that, with the 11 Court's help. And I've already met with Jonathan and The 12 Software Group, and -- not Jonathan. You're Jonathan. John 13 Trolinger. And, you know, we're excited about doing some 14 wonderful things for very little money. I mean, I'm really 15 excited about getting it done. So it looks like, you know, 16 we're going to go forward. So -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's the intent. 18 MS. UECKER: Bye. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: My turn? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. Either yours or -- 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Miguel? 23 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, sir. Yes, just a quick 24 question. I want something clear to me. On my inspector's 25 salaries, what's the last number -- what's the number we 9-12-05 224 1 have there? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No change. 3 MR. ARREOLA: It's no change from the year -- 4 current? Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: 3.2 percent, same 6 people. 7 MR. ARREOLA: Same people? Okay, great. 8 Thank you. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We're through with 10 budget? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. No, not yet. I 12 want to take another run at this booking thing. And there's 13 a position involved in booking right now. I want you guys 14 to think about a half a position added in Commissioners 15 Court, and that half a position could take care of the grunt 16 work with respect to booking, be of assistance to the 17 administrative assistant in terms of telephone, filing, and 18 so forth and so on. Add half a position, and see where that 19 takes us. The actual showing of the facilities can be 20 split -- if it's the Ag Barn, there's usually somebody out 21 there. Is that right, Glenn? 22 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If it's the Union 24 Church, that might require this individual to make a trip to 25 Union Church or something like that. So, half a spot, 9-12-05 225 1 assist Ms. Mitchell in doing that. Ms. Mitchell would 2 handle the contracts and so forth, and the records, and this 3 person would do the actual showing, telephones, clerking. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That may work. I mean, I 5 think it solves the problem of -- I mean, it looks like we 6 have half a person or a part-time position, which I don't 7 like, doing this somewhere. Where it's done right now, it's 8 either Maintenance or up here. It's still not my ideal way 9 to handle all this organization, but -- 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I can support that. 11 And we -- in our off-season work, we might even find a way 12 to do it a little differently and add on or whatever. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Exactly. But that 14 would be a -- that would be a net gain of a half spot, and I 15 think Ms. Mitchell will be entitled to some bump up for 16 supervisory responsibilities as well. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd have to look at job 18 descriptions, exactly how all that works. I mean, I 19 don't -- I'm not sure that requires an increase. But, 20 anyway, we can discuss that or look at the job descriptions, 21 and that can be done. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where are you, 23 Commissioner? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm at the point where 25 we're trying to fix one thing and we're creating a problem 9-12-05 226 1 in another area. We're talking about adding a half a person 2 to our staff, and then adding more salary to the 3 administrative assistant to run that thing. I mean, I -- 4 what are we fixing here? What is it that we're actually 5 fixing? Where's the problem that we're fixing with that? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, we're freeing up a 7 full-time person in Maintenance. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand. I mean, 9 just -- what we're fixing is moving the booking. We feel 10 like that that is in such horrible condition that we need to 11 move it up here? And we're going to create a half a spot, 12 and then -- I mean, I don't see what we're doing here. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Commissioner, I see 14 that we have a little more -- somewhat more than a full-time 15 job now. It's just too difficult chasing all the -- the 16 different things that she has to do. She's very often the 17 courthouse receptionist, directing people, answering calls, 18 all these sorts of things. We also have a problem with 19 booking, so we can solve those two problems with -- with the 20 addition of a halftime person. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a suggestion. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why don't we go on into 23 the discussion on Maintenance, which it just flows right 24 into. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me first inquire if we 9-12-05 227 1 need to address the Animal Control contract, or whether 2 that's -- we want no formal action right now? We're going 3 to let you guys do your work? Or do we -- are we looking 4 for approval of the contract subject to some final 5 adjustments to be worked out by Commissioner Nicholson and 6 the County Attorney? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm willing to go -- I'm 8 at the point we can go ahead and give -- I'll make a motion 9 to approve. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Wait a minute. Let me get 11 back to it, okay? Let me recall Item Number 17 on the 12 agenda; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on 13 the Animal Control services contract with the City of 14 Kerrville. Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion to 16 approve the content of the Animal Control contract with the 17 City of Kerrville per our discussion this morning, subject 18 to Commissioner, Precinct 4, and the County Attorney 19 resolving some language issues, and authorize County Judge 20 to sign same. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to 23 conditionally approve the agreement subject to adjustment. 24 Any further questions or comments? All in favor of the 25 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 9-12-05 228 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Got one done. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's now go to Item Number 7 24; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on the 8 organization of the Maintenance Department, with possibility 9 of executive session, depending upon the content. 10 Commissioner 3. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I put this on the agenda 12 largely because of the potential change of who's doing the 13 booking for the Ag Barn. And it -- it seems to me that part 14 of the goal that I had in recommending some of the changes 15 that we still are discussing are to improve, really, the 16 efficiency in that department, and basically get something 17 that doesn't, to me, take maintenance out of Maintenance, 18 and allow the person that has to do that work now to be 19 doing, you know, full-time maintenance work. And my -- and 20 that's kind of where I was. I'd like to hear from the 21 Maintenance Supervisor if that makes sense, if he agrees or 22 disagrees. And I guess I'll say one more thing. I don't 23 see -- with the size of staff and what the staff does, as I 24 understand it, I don't see the reason to have an office 25 person besides yourself in the Maintenance Department. I 9-12-05 229 1 think we ought to be able to have everyone out in 2 maintenance responsibilities. I think we're -- you know, 3 this is -- well, that's my feeling. Am I off base, in your 4 mind, or is that the way you feel things should go? 5 MR. HOLEKAMP: Well, no. No, I -- well, I 6 understand what you're saying. The only thing is, is when 7 you -- when we started acquiring all of these different 8 facilities to, so to speak, manage, we're constantly 9 dispatching people to different places. I don't -- I don't 10 think you can do it with voicemail. Somebody has got to 11 answer the phone and make a decision on repairs. And I'm 12 going to use the Sheriff's Office for an example. We're 13 required, when water is flying, somebody go. We don't know 14 who's going to be available to go, so I really think that -- 15 I think we would really lose a whole lot of productivity if 16 we didn't have somebody coordinating the efforts of 17 maintenance, whether it's delivering boxes of paper, which 18 we do; we deliver license plates to Ingram. I mean, we do 19 it on a day that we do custodial work over there, but 20 there's constantly requests for repairs. Someone is going 21 to have to take those requests. And I differ with you -- 22 you know, and I'll be willing to -- to work with the Court 23 as far as sharing the -- an employee or something to 24 accomplish what Kathy's dilemma is in answering phones. 25 Booking could be under her; I mean, that's not a problem. 9-12-05 230 1 But I think Maintenance is going to have -- 2 to have a need of, say, 14, 15 hours a week to answer the 3 phones so I can go check on facilities like the jail, 4 juvenile detention. You know, that is another one. We got 5 major issues there to get cleaned up and straightened up, 6 and as long as the Ag Barn is under Maintenance, that 7 requires people to call plumbers, electricians and that sort 8 of things. Who's going to do that? I mean, that is my 9 question. Someone is going to have to do that. The -- the 10 on-site guys -- and I work with a P.O. system, a purchase 11 order system. The reason I do it is -- is because you -- I 12 have a real problem giving people blank checks with county 13 funds. Employees are that; they're employees, and I prefer 14 not to say, "If you need an electrician, call him and tell 15 him he can work as long as he wants." I mean, somebody has 16 got to make a decision, and that's what I'm there for. Now, 17 the -- you know, if the Court chooses to change that where 18 there's no -- nobody that makes those decisions, so be it, 19 you know. That -- that's y'all's call. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I look at it, I guess, is 21 that -- I mean, most people know that trying to catch me on 22 my phone here is about impossible, but on my mobile phone, I 23 conduct county business and other business all day long on 24 that, and all night when I'm, you know, still in the city 25 area. I think -- I don't see why a system can't be set up 9-12-05 231 1 where P.O.'s are used. I don't think you need to change the 2 system; that seems to be working. But things can be done in 3 the office part of the day, and then use your -- use the 4 cell phone almost exclusively as a contact to the community 5 and to your department and to elected officials. I just 6 think that you, obviously, have headed that department as 7 head. You need to be, however, at those departments at 8 least part of the day. 9 MR. HOLEKAMP: That is correct. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think that -- and I 11 still think you should be the person to have responsibility 12 as to calling electricians, or say, "Don't call an 13 electrician; send so-and-so over there." 14 MR. HOLEKAMP: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think it can be 16 done, you know, through cell phone type work, as opposed to 17 having a person at a desk. And I think as short-staffed as 18 we are in Maintenance, or as we made you -- have made you 19 become in Maintenance, that the more people we can have 20 doing maintenance, the better. 21 MR. HOLEKAMP: I agree with that. No, I'm 22 not going to argue. But, there again, as I was going to 23 stand here and make the -- the offer, if -- if the Court 24 needs some assistance with clerical work, we'd be more than 25 willing to -- to help out at, you know, 50 percent of the 9-12-05 232 1 time, 60, whatever the Court chooses. But I will say, and 2 I've said it before, is I think that personal touch is going 3 to be very difficult to replace if you're -- if you're 4 showing people the facility and that sort of thing. I think 5 part of the booking, whoever is in charge of that -- I'd 6 kind of like to give it away, but I think that we -- we 7 really need to stay in touch with those public. We've 8 increased the usage of that facility, and we've done it 9 because we're treating pretty much everybody pretty nice. 10 Maybe we're doing too much; I don't know. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, it could be that we 12 may be -- and I think this will be a wise thing, is to 13 have -- clearly, you need a contact person in your 14 department in addition to yourself as to -- so it's not just 15 anyone's call when something's -- 16 MS. HOLEKAMP: That is correct. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: A chain. And I think 18 that that person would be the contact that -- or, you know, 19 a day in advance to show the Union Church or Ag Barn or 20 whatever, and say -- you know, let them schedule it 21 themselves to a degree. But -- and it's -- the other part 22 of it, of sharing a position, I just don't know that. I 23 mean, that's something that I don't -- 24 MR. HOLEKAMP: I made that offer, you know, 25 if you chose to put -- working under y'all's authority, but 9-12-05 233 1 I would say that Ms. Mitchell would have a very difficult 2 time under her current conditions to be able to do that 3 booking and what she currently does, because I've seen it's 4 pretty busy up here. And I -- you know, I'm making that 5 offer to help if it's -- you know, is feasible for y'all. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 7 MR. HOLEKAMP: It wouldn't create another 8 halftime position. It would be -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 10 MR. HOLEKAMP: And supervision of that 11 person, that wouldn't be an issue for me. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How can you make that 13 offer? Are you making that offer predicated on not losing 14 another person off your staff? 15 MR. HOLEKAMP: Well, I already gave you that 16 one yesterday -- I mean this afternoon. I'm already having 17 to double up on my maintenance people. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm talking about the 19 booking function, and offering some assistance like you just 20 offered. 21 MR. HOLEKAMP: Mm-hmm. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would be 23 predicated on not losing another member of your staff; is 24 that correct? 25 MR. HOLEKAMP: No, sir. I -- I'm not going 9-12-05 234 1 to take back what I gave you this afternoon. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 3 MS. HOLEKAMP: No, I don't operate that way. 4 I am going to tighten the belt. We're going to make it 5 work. I -- I may be coming back to you for overtime money, 6 because if it doesn't work, overtime is going to be a 7 problem with these people that are, like, in jail and 8 detention. That's an unknown. I will tell you, the 9 detention facility has got some ills that need to be 10 corrected, and it's going to take me probably 30 to 60 days 11 to get a handle on them, so I would appreciate some patience 12 with that. And it's dollars -- 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. I just wanted 14 to understand what you're saying. 15 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yeah. But, no, I'm not -- I 16 still -- that position that I had there, that goes away. 17 And -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 19 MR. HOLEKAMP: -- then I'm still offering. 20 But I'd prefer to retain some, because we do some clerical 21 stuff that -- and phone answering, like I was trying to 22 explain. That sure would be nice if I had some help with 23 that. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. That's all I 25 really had. I'm not sure I know any more. 9-12-05 235 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything further with regard 2 to Item 24? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, not really on 24, 4 but I guess going back to the -- the budget item, I think we 5 -- the issue is still unresolved. I mean, I think we need 6 to decide today. Either we're going to leave booking where 7 it is or we're going to bring it up here. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me recall Item 23; 9 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on Fiscal 10 Year 2005-06 budget. Okay, we're back in that mode now. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And it can be done now, 12 or it can be done through budget amendments later; it 13 doesn't make any difference from my standpoint. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mr. Tomlinson? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Auditor? 16 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, I would suggest that 17 you -- that you still have the opportunity at the budget 18 hearing, when the budget's adopted, to make any changes to 19 the budget that you want to do at that time. I would like 20 to see us put this budget -- this proposed budget to bed by 21 Wednesday. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: By when? 23 MR. TOMLINSON: By Wednesday at the latest. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Do we need to formally adopt a 25 proposed budget? 9-12-05 236 1 MR. TOMLINSON: There is -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Or approve a proposed 3 budget -- 4 MR. TOMLINSON: There needs to be -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: -- at that point, and get it 6 on file before we can do the formal adoption, which we can 7 also do on the 30th? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes. 9 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, you don't have to -- 10 you don't have to officially vote on a proposed budget. And 11 I think the statute says that the County Judge shall post a 12 budget -- a proposed budget for -- I think it's 10 days. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Ten days. 14 MR. TOMLINSON: Ten days prior to the 15 adoption of the budget. So, any time between the time it's 16 filed and when it's actually adopted, you have opportunities 17 to suggest any amendments that you want to make. The only 18 stipulation is that those amendments have to be -- have to 19 become part of the budget, so you have to be -- they have to 20 be -- those amendments have to be itemized within the body 21 of the budget. But do you have an opportunity -- 22 JUDGE TINLEY: My thinking was that we -- it 23 may not be necessary. I may be being repetitive, but I was 24 just making some notes for the 19th, would be to approve a 25 proposed budget on the 19th. At that point, it'll be filed, 9-12-05 237 1 and then on the 30th, when the final actions are taken with 2 respect to the tax rate, and have the actual adoption take 3 place then. Is there anything wrong with that timetable? 4 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there any lack of notice 6 that I'm not including in that, that I need to include? 7 MR. TOMLINSON: I can't -- 10 days is all I 8 know -- I'm sure of. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. That's my 10 understanding, that -- actually, I don't think we need to 11 have formal court action to approve the proposed budget. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: But -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the -- I mean, if we 15 did it on the 19th, on Monday, how long is it going to take 16 you to get it printed? Don't you have to have it available 17 10 days? 18 MR. TOMLINSON: Mm-hmm. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't know why we just 20 don't do it today. I mean, it's on the agenda. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: We could. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We could. I don't 23 know why you can't, either. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That way it can be out to 25 the public and they can look at it. If we want to -- it's a 9-12-05 238 1 proposed budget; we can still make a few minor changes if we 2 need to, or we can do it through budget amendments after the 3 budget starts. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's good. Move 5 to approve the budget with the changes that we've noted 6 today. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 9 approval of the budget, subject to the changes being 10 implemented that we've noted today. Any questions? 11 MS. UECKER: How do we know what those -- how 12 do we know what that's going to be? 13 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, I'll send everybody a 14 page of the final number. 15 MS. NEMEC: And I'll send everybody their own 16 position schedule. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And then if there's 18 something wrong, there's still time during that -- between 19 now and Monday, probably, really to do it, or we can do it 20 during the 10-day period. We can still make the correction. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Holekamp? 22 MS. HOLEKAMP: I just have a comment. And 23 I -- and as I've said numerous times, I work at the pleasure 24 of the Court. But if we're going to chop any more positions 25 and it goes in effect October 1, I'd sure like to be able to 9-12-05 239 1 tell somebody they won't have a job, because we're two weeks 2 away. So, please, we've got to treat these people, I mean, 3 fairly. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 6 discussion on the motion on the floor? All in favor of the 7 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 8 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 10 (No response.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's 12 go to the 2 o'clock item. Reasonably timely. Reports from 13 departments. I.T., Mr. Trolinger. 14 MR. TROLINGER: Afternoon. I have submitted 15 to each of you a written report bimonthly from July 11th 16 through September 12th. Just a couple of highlights. We 17 brought the 198th District Attorney's local office online 18 this morning, actually, so they're going to be able to 19 access the County's database, the jail records, the person's 20 records and whatnot. So, we'll get them -- we'll get them 21 started on some training. We've reconfigured the County 22 Clerk's office counter operation. Looks pretty good. I 23 think all the people that sit there and have to -- have to 24 print and run to the printer now versus -- or not run to the 25 printer now versus having to print jobs at their desk, 9-12-05 240 1 they're going to improve some things, and Jannett's also 2 done some things with her seats, or is getting ready to do 3 things with her seats, which is going to make it much better 4 also. So, definitely some good things happening this past 5 two months with efficiency. 6 Last little piece is we installed a driver's 7 license reader for jail visitation. A little bit more 8 accurate -- well, some accuracy improvements, and hopefully 9 some speed improvements for the visitors at the jail. And 10 converted the fingerprint system communications from a 11 dedicated line -- expensive dedicated line, and rolled that 12 into the cable modem that we had provided him, his dedicated 13 internet connection. If y'all have any questions, I'll be 14 glad to answer. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the timetable for 16 the new software, or new computer system? 17 MR. TROLINGER: I'm sitting down with the -- 18 with the contract people tonight at dinner, and in the 19 morning, I expect we'll be able to present to the County 20 Attorney the contracts, so it will be ready to be signed on 21 October 1st. And pending that scheduling, we anticipate for 22 the Tax Office and for financial will probably be after the 23 end of January; probably February 1st timeframe will be the 24 initial -- that's because we want to push them past the tax 25 season and the forms and whatnot. For the courts package, 9-12-05 241 1 the most expensive and the largest, I'd like to get a 2 scheduled date as soon as possible, and that's all based on 3 a signed contract. So, that's why I want to have those 4 contracts ready for you, so we can get a person scheduled to 5 assign -- you know, a time slot basically assigned to us 6 from Software Group for the Courts Odyssey package install. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there anything 8 noticeably going to be different with the new system? Like, 9 Jannett's people, are they going to be getting different 10 computers or PC's or anything? Or, I guess, how is it going 11 to -- or is it basically going to be run off the same PC's 12 that are everywhere? 13 MR. TROLINGER: For the majority of the 14 cases, the same equipment, with some peripheral changes; 15 some printers, some scanners are going to change. The 16 largest departments, the Clerk's and the Sheriff's Office, 17 we've gotten them up to the point where their hardware 18 already -- since February, we've gotten everything in place, 19 so they've got new computers; they've got the hardware they 20 need. I took into account a couple of places where it was 21 not budgeted for next year to improve some computers, and 22 that's included. I've got that calculated so that it'll all 23 come together when Odyssey is installed. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: When will we -- when will 25 be your best guess as to when the Courts package will be up 9-12-05 242 1 and running? 2 MS. UECKER: Gosh, training will be -- 3 MR. TROLINGER: February-March. Spring, 4 completely. And that includes the jail, Sheriff's Office, 5 the Clerk's offices, District Attorney's, because I'm 6 bringing them into this picture too, and the J.P.'s. 7 There's a lot of people involved. But it all hinges on 8 getting that -- getting that slot reserved. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You say you're cutting 10 a deal over dinner? 11 MR. TROLINGER: We're going to review the 12 contracts and make sure each one of the line items are 13 correct as we discussed; make sure that, for instance, the 14 Sheriff's computer-aided dispatch is included. And then 15 we're going to have that in a form so that all of those 16 pieces -- tax, financial, and courts -- all look similar, so 17 that when the County Attorney reviews it, it's a simple 18 process for him to give feedback, so when he does give that 19 feedback, it applies to all three. There's three separate 20 contracts, and we can get the process moving to streamline 21 the process. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Be careful letting 23 Software, Inc., buy you dinner. 24 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Be careful about 9-12-05 243 1 taking gifts. 2 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. 3 MS. NEMEC: John? Could you update the Court 4 on what we're going to do with direct deposit and what 5 timeframe, just to have it on the record, please? 6 MR. TROLINGER: Okay, sure. Direct deposit, 7 I was asked to look at the automated -- automated data 8 processing -- the direct deposit issue. Currently, with the 9 Legacy system, we have not purchased the module that's 10 required to do the -- the automated clearinghouse -- the 11 piece that lets us send payments electronically through the 12 fed. In lieu of purchasing that, installing that, I'm 13 recommending that we wait until we install the new software 14 package. In the new financial package, that will -- that 15 will be built-in, and the Treasurer's office will receive 16 training at that time. But that will be after -- after 17 January 31st. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: After January? 19 MR. TROLINGER: Yes. 20 MS. NEMEC: And that we'd have to purchase 21 twice. 22 MR. TROLINGER: Otherwise -- I'll give you a 23 quote. What was it, $1,500? 24 MS. NEMEC: I think so. 25 MR. TROLINGER: Relatively not a large 9-12-05 244 1 amount, but it's $1,500 that we would spend and then throw 2 away within a few months. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: So, it's going to be a short 5 delay to really implementing that because of the wasted 6 expenditure for a short period of time. 7 MR. TROLINGER: Correct. And I expect with 8 the Legacy system, if I placed the order with Software Group 9 right now, it would be two months before we had that 10 installed. It would be the end of November in any case, 11 just the scheduling issue that they have in training and 12 implementation. So, you know, by the end of November we'd 13 install it, and then by the end of January, we're putting in 14 a new software system that covers the -- covers that. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you going to get 16 an ironclad implementation schedule from these people? 17 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, and I have the 18 preliminary step-by-step. It's a thick document, and it 19 outlines each and every step and package with sign-off at 20 the bottom of each page. Software Group's got a very 21 detailed plan. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Who executes the 24 contract? You, Judge? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I assume so. Contract's first 9-12-05 245 1 got to go to the County Attorney, and then it will come back 2 here for final approval. 3 MR. TROLINGER: My plan was -- on the 4 contracts was to just to make sure -- I was going to go with 5 Software Group, then bring it to Linda, Jannett, the 6 Sheriff, the Auditor, the Treasurer, et cetera, to make sure 7 that all the pieces -- the data conversion and whatnot were 8 in the contract, that we had everything covered before 9 giving it to the County Attorney, and then it would come to 10 the -- to the Judge. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else for the I.T.? 13 MS. UECKER: I don't know if Jonathan even 14 knows this or not, but effective September the 1st, we quit 15 using the expensive receipts. We're just doing plain paper 16 receipts, and we're not even keeping one. We're just 17 running a report and getting the amount off of that rather 18 than buying the expensive computer receipts. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are you talking to this 20 Jonathan or that Jonathan? He's not Jonathan. 21 MS. UECKER: Well, I don't even know if he 22 knows that we did that, but you might -- 23 MR. TROLINGER: Yeah, September 1st -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Got your John's mixed 25 up. 9-12-05 246 1 MR. TROLINGER: September 1st, the District 2 Clerk's Office came off the expensive receipts and went to 3 plain paper for receipts. And the County Clerk's office is 4 doing the same; they're in that process right now. Thank 5 you. 6 MS. UECKER: He just looks like a Jonathan, 7 doesn't he? (Laughter). 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Road and Bridge. 9 MS. HARDIN: Would you pass these out? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just what we need, 11 more stuff to read. 12 (Discussion off the record.) 13 MS. HARDIN: Since the last report, the first 14 list that I have here are the roads that have been paved 15 since the last bimonthly report, Ranchero Road being the 16 most fun. Goat Creek Cutoff is being done today, as we 17 speak. And all of these on the list should be done before 18 the end of September. Elm Pass should be done next week. 19 The stripers will be here next Monday to stripe Ranchero, 20 Goat Creek Cutoff, and Scenic Valley Roads. Does anyone 21 have any questions about the paving? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I guess there are no 23 roads in Precinct 3? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Three's in very good 25 shape. 9-12-05 247 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Both of them. 2 MS. HARDIN: We cut them all out when the 3 budget went. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: When does Canyon 5 Springs Ranch get finished up? 6 MS. HARDIN: They're going to go from Goat 7 Creek Cutoff to Elm Pass, and then from Elm Pass they will 8 be going there, so probably by middle of next week. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think you ought to 10 pass Elm Pass and go directly... I won't get so many phone 11 calls. 12 MS. HARDIN: On the subdivision plats, one of 13 those changed this morning. The Mosty Pecan Grove won't be 14 done until the 19th. We still have four subdivisions that 15 still need the final -- finals on them. That's where we 16 marked it with "N.F." We're waiting on -- three of those 17 are in Precinct 2, and then we still have the one in 18 Precinct 4, which was that subdivision that had not been 19 done. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's with the 21 school? Another house there or what? 22 MS. HARDIN: We haven't heard anything more 23 from them since the preliminary plat, so we're still waiting 24 on that to be finished. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Ledgestone is the one 9-12-05 248 1 on 27 coming for final? 2 MS. HARDIN: Right. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that correct? 4 MS. HARDIN: Correct. And then the Waugh 5 Acres, they were supposed to do a floodplain study, and we 6 do not have that back. And the one out in Precinct 4, that 7 Heavenly Acres on Harper Valley Road, all of the landowners 8 were scattered all over the United States, so it's taking 9 them longer than the 90 days that we gave them to come back 10 with the signatures. And the next page, the list is for the 11 floodplain permits. We still have several of those pending. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What's Truett 13 Airhart? What does he need? 14 MS. HARDIN: He's doing a remodel on his 15 property, so we're waiting for them to complete the -- the 16 remodel so that they can do an elevation certificate on the 17 finished job. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I didn't know about 19 that. Can you -- you need a construction permit out in the 20 county? 21 MS. HARDIN: Yes, sir. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: In the floodplain. 23 MS. HARDIN: In the floodplain. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Oh, in the 25 floodplain. 9-12-05 249 1 MS. HARDIN: These are all floodplain 2 permits. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I know where it is. 4 MS. HARDIN: Okay. We'll move on to the 5 employees. We have no new worker's comp claims in the last 6 two months. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yea. 8 MS. HARDIN: Yea. We did have one man out 9 with an emergency appendectomy. We did -- and we had -- we 10 lost one retiree, Archie Koennecke, who was Doug's father, 11 passed away on August the 18th. We've had no new insurance 12 claims -- well, we had one where gravel was coming out from 13 underneath the tailgate of a dump truck and damaged a car. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What was the car 15 doing underneath the dump truck's tailgate? 16 MS. HARDIN: It was one of those little, 17 bitty -- what are those? Mini Cooper? It was a Mini 18 Cooper, and it was too close to the tailgate. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Dumped a load and gone. 20 MS. HARDIN: We did have some -- on September 21 the 1st, there was some new laws that came out that our -- 22 some of our employees were concerned about, about the 23 tarping of dump trucks, so I called Travis Hall and asked 24 him if this pertained to us, and he could not -- he couldn't 25 give me a definition until he went to his class to find out 9-12-05 250 1 how he was supposed to interpret the laws. So, in the 2 meantime, I called Mindy, who was -- for insurance purposes, 3 and she talked to TAC legal, and they said that we were not 4 a commercial entity, so we did not have to tarp our trucks. 5 We have 11 dump trucks that are not tarped. Those of 6 certain sizes have tarps on them, and they were sold to us 7 that way. I guess what we're asking the Court is, would you 8 like for us to consider tarping those 11 trucks, or do we 9 want to wait until we hear from the -- from Mr. Hall? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Wait till we hear from 11 Mr. Hall. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait till you hear 13 from Mr. Hall. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: And if you don't like what you 15 hear him say, you can tell him what TAC said. 16 MS. HARDIN: Okay. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Say he's obviously wrong; go 18 back again. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Go back to school. 20 MS. HARDIN: Okay. I just wanted to point 21 that out. Ranchero Road was a very difficult road for our 22 guys to pave. And you gentlemen drive it every day, so you 23 know what the traffic's like. It was done without any 24 incidents. The constable came -- two constables came and 25 helped us the first day, and the Sheriff's Department did 9-12-05 251 1 come the second day and gave several tickets. It turned out 2 very well. And -- 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What was happening 4 there? 5 MS. HARDIN: The only -- pardon? 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What was happening 7 there on Ranchero? What -- what kind of violations were 8 occurring? 9 MS. HARDIN: Speeding, no seat belts. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. Okay. 11 MS. HARDIN: And then on Goat Creek Cutoff, 12 when we were getting ready to do that last week, we had to 13 call the Sheriff's Department, 'cause a gentleman threatened 14 to kill our guys if they touched his driveway. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, what was the 16 final disposition? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We didn't touch his 18 driveway. 19 MS. HARDIN: Didn't touch his driveway, but 20 we did send a deputy out. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There was a couple Road 22 and Bridge workers that left. (Laughter.) 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Smart employees. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Tough work. First 25 thing, they're going to be looking for combat pay here. 9-12-05 252 1 MS. HARDIN: If you get a call about a 2 driveway that didn't get done, it was probably that one. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: For the information 4 of the rest of the Court, you got a copy of a letter from a 5 landowner in Y.O. Ranchlands complaining that he thought 6 some unauthorized development was going on out there. And 7 that's nothing new; we dealt with that before. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I was shocked. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And I sent him a 10 response, said we'll look into it again, and he'd get an 11 answer when I got one. Truby is working to find out the 12 details on it, so that's where that stands. 13 MS. HARDIN: We went back and pulled the 14 information. The gentleman who's doing -- selling the lots 15 had a letter in 2001; he had another determination in 2004, 16 that if he sold the property in the same configurations that 17 he bought them, that they did not have to plat. And, so, I 18 have a call in to the surveyor who's doing the work for him 19 and asked him to draw me a picture, so when I have a picture 20 of what the plat looks like, then we can set up a meeting 21 with the Commissioner and the County Attorney. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Isn't the issue, though, 23 they're putting in roads? 24 MS. HARDIN: But there was an easement road 25 there at that time. 9-12-05 253 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 2 MS. HARDIN: Is my understanding. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Some type of road. 4 MS. HARDIN: But I don't have -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We don't know the 7 answer to that. 8 MS. HARDIN: We don't really know the answer, 9 but we are working on it. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: There's obviously a 11 feud going on, and it's kind of -- you can't trust what you 12 hear from either side. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I like this report. 14 MS. HARDIN: Thank you very much. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The format. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's good. Thank 17 you. 18 MS. HARDIN: Thank you. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, thank you. Facilities 20 and Maintenance. We've heard about you upside, downside -- 21 MR. HOLEKAMP: Probably heard enough. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: -- sideways, every which way. 23 MR. HOLEKAMP: I have a real brief one. In 24 the month of September, the barn was booked 14 days; Union 25 Church, six. And those 14, that is not counting setup and 9-12-05 254 1 tear-down; those are actual days that somebody was in the 2 facility renting it -- well, and 4-H. Wait a minute, not 3 all rental; it was some 4-H stuff. And in the month of 4 October, we're scheduled for 16 days in the barn, and I 5 think Union Church is going to be about six. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What are they using Union 7 Church for mostly? 8 MR. HOLEKAMP: Okay, I figured somebody was 9 going to ask me that. We do weddings, and I see where we 10 got a baby shower coming up. And the -- Schreiner College 11 calls it, like, Partners in Ministry; there's a group. And 12 the biggest problem with Union Church -- and I'll just kind 13 of give you -- it's not a problem, but it's a -- it's one of 14 those things that you have to check on quite often, is the 15 -- that when they use it, they don't turn the thermostat 16 back, so we have to go over there the next morning or 17 whatever and check that thermostat, see if it's sitting on 18 68 still. They just leave it at -- you know. And I'm -- 19 I'm kind of hard-headed about that; I think that's a waste 20 of money. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can't we put one of those 22 lockbox -- 23 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir, we could. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Might be a way just to -- 25 I mean, obviously -- 9-12-05 255 1 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yeah, we could. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Long as they can get to 3 it to shut it down so it's not -- 4 MR. HOLEKAMP: Well, I understand. We just 5 haven't done that sort of thing. We were hoping that 6 honesty would -- and common sense would prevail, but it 7 doesn't always work that way. We've got several projects 8 that we're fixing to start on, and I have some -- somebody 9 said about goals earlier in court; I think Buster. I've got 10 a goal that we have this space downstairs in that hallway, 11 in that open space, to have it looking like something other 12 than a basement by early voting. I think that's a lofty 13 goal on my part. I've got the -- I've got the ceiling tile 14 and the floor tile, and I'm going to try to work them out of 15 this year's budget, and then the scheduling of trying to get 16 people to do it, it's going to be from there on. But I do 17 have a goal of trying to get that accomplished, and there's 18 a bunch of air conditioning duct work that'll go along with 19 it, and lighting, a lot of electrical that -- we don't see 20 it when you walk in there because it's already lit, but that 21 cannot be moved down. So, that's a goal that I have. And 22 I'm hoping in -- and the main reason I've been using my -- 23 my staff and trustees is because contractors are really 24 cost-prohibitive nowadays. It has gotten to where if I go 25 out and try to get a bid on something, I can expect 60 to 9-12-05 256 1 65 percent of that bid being labor. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure, if they have 3 time to do it. 4 MR. HOLEKAMP: If you can even get them to 5 call you back, right. And I well understand, you know, 6 that's good for our -- our community if they're busy, but it 7 really makes it tough to -- to get things accomplished. But 8 that is a goal right now for early voting -- have it done by 9 beginning of March. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a good goal. 11 MR. HOLEKAMP: Any questions? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 13 MR. HOLEKAMP: Thank you. 14 MS. PIEPER: Glenn, I have early voting 15 starting October 24th. 16 MR. HOLEKAMP: Well, that's for this 17 election. I said primaries, didn't I? 18 MS. PIEPER: Okay. 19 MR. HOLEKAMP: I meant primaries. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You said early voting, 21 but we'll go -- 22 MR. HOLEKAMP: I meant primaries in March -- 23 isn't that March? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right, let's cut 25 his salary. 9-12-05 257 1 MS. PIEPER: They start February 20th. 2 MR. HOLEKAMP: February 20? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Do we have anything to 4 go into executive session about now? Okay, let's -- 5 MS. NEMEC: Judge? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: -- talk about the bills. 7 MS. NEMEC: Judge? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm sorry. 9 MS. NEMEC: Ms. Uecker left, but she informed 10 me that she -- as she told y'all, that she had cut a 11 position and was moving those duties up to one of her other 12 employees, and wanted to know if she could do as Ms. Pieper 13 is doing and giving her that one-step increase. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I sure think she ought to be 15 here to ask for it if she's that interested in it. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the answer is 17 yes. 18 MS. NEMEC: So, should I go ahead and include 19 that? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's fine. Fine in my 21 opinion. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's a last-minute 23 adjustment? 24 MS. NEMEC: Yes, sir. 25 MS. PIEPER: I have another question on that. 9-12-05 258 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Uh-oh. Get Linda Uecker back 2 down here. 3 MS. PIEPER: Well, if our gas allowance is 4 going to go up -- the only time I put in for reimbursement 5 on gas is just when I go to conferences. When I travel to 6 the county or bank or, you know, voting places, I never put 7 in for that, but for my conference line items, I do. I seek 8 reimbursement for my mileage, so I just kind of wonder -- 9 and I think Linda Uecker's the same way, and I just wonder 10 if we need to kind of up that amount a little bit. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I'm -- I do -- I 12 think most of the Court does the same way. I think I'd 13 rather -- rather than try to change all those line items, 14 let's just see how we go through the year. 15 MS. PIEPER: Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And if we get a little 17 bit short, we can do a budget amendment, if that's the 18 reason. Hopefully fuel prices come down. 19 MS. PIEPER: Okay, that sounds good. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: What a dreamer. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. Maybe they will. 22 Probably overestimated this year. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I guess we're down to 24 the approval agenda. Mr. Auditor? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move we pay the bills. 9-12-05 259 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to 3 pay the bills. Any question or discussion? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is there any indigent 5 health care in here? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I can't seem to find 8 it. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I'd say there is. 10 MR. TOMLINSON: No, we didn't have -- we 11 didn't have any. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Didn't have any? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I want to ask a 14 question about paying indigent health care bills, anyway. 15 Who sets -- who actually sets the criteria for paying for 16 indigent health care? 17 MR. TOMLINSON: The State of Texas. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Does the State of 19 Texas actually say that we will cover undocumented aliens? 20 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't know -- I don't know 21 the rule on that one. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what I'm 23 talking about, is those kinds of criteria. 24 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't know -- I don't know 25 the criteria for qualification. 9-12-05 260 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I had -- the reason 2 I'm asking -- I'm not fussing or complaining or anything. 3 I've just heard about another county that the Commissioners 4 Court actually sets the criteria of what kind of individual 5 qualifies. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: As I understand it, I 7 thought it was -- Sid Peterson was doing that for us. 8 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, they are, but there's a 9 set -- there's a set of regulations that they have to 10 follow. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. And I don't know 12 what those regulations are, but, I mean -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And that's set down by 14 the State, I'm sure. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They just follow 18 state rules when an applicant shows up, right? 19 MR. TOMLINSON: And it's the same -- they 20 also set the -- the amount that we pay for certain 21 medications, surgical procedures. That -- that is actually 22 the most difficult part of -- of administering the Indigent 23 Health Care program. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 25 MR. TOMLINSON: 'Cause each and every drug 9-12-05 261 1 and each and every procedure that's allowed has -- has a 2 price attached to it, and we -- we can't pay more than what 3 that price is. There's -- so -- and, as a matter of fact, 4 there's some -- there's some cases that -- I don't know how 5 current this is, but I have seen at times where we've paid 6 actually more under the State's rules than was actually 7 billed. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Doesn't surprise me. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And they set things, 10 too, like -- I mean, part of it would be, you know, to see 11 if a person's been through Medicaid/Medicare before it ever 12 arrives at Indigent Health Care. 13 MR. TOMLINSON: I think that that's -- that's 14 the real reason that we have contracted with Peterson 15 Hospital to do -- to do that, is that they -- they know all 16 -- I mean, they have a way to know if -- if the applicant 17 has already been through Medicaid or Medicare or any -- any 18 other -- any other benefits that are available to them 19 before they actually go on the Indigent Health Care rolls. 20 I mean, that would be difficult for someone, you know, in 21 the courthouse to -- that kind of information would be hard 22 to obtain. So, in my -- in my mind, I think that's a plus 23 for -- for us that we have somebody that's already in the 24 social services business -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 9-12-05 262 1 MR. TOMLINSON: -- to do this qualification 2 part of the system. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My only -- I agree 5 with that 100 percent. I can't imagine one of us trying to 6 figure all that out. But I'm concerned about the 7 undocumented alien thing, if we're required -- 8 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't -- I don't know the 9 regulation. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm going to continue 11 looking into it, see if I can come up with it. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or 13 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 14 your right hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Budget 19 amendments. Budget Amendment Request Number 1. 20 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. Number 1 is for the 21 Courthouse and Related Buildings. The request is to move 22 $2,023.31 to Utilities, 1,314.23, from Leasehold 23 Improvements and 709.08 into Repairs -- from Repairs and 24 Maintenance. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 9-12-05 263 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 3 approval. Any question or discussion? All in favor of the 4 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Budget 9 Amendment Request Number 2. 10 MR. TOMLINSON: That's from the District 11 Clerk. Her request is to transfer $38.11 from her Part-Time 12 line item, $30 into Conferences and $8.11 into Employee 13 Training. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move to approve. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 18 approval. Any question or comment? All in favor of the 19 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Budget 24 Amendment Request Number 3. 25 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 3 is from the Sheriff 9-12-05 264 1 for the jail, to transfer 12,000 from Jailers' Salaries to 2 Utilities and $203.48 from Capital Outlay to Operating 3 Equipment. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move to approve. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 7 approval. Any question or discussion? 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Just tell me again, 9 Rusty, how we got $12,000 in Jailers' Salaries we don't 10 need. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I had openings. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Same answer as last 13 time. Thank you. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They won't be there 15 long. We about filled all but two now. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Any -- any other questions or 17 discussion? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Actually, I think the 19 real question is, how did we underbudget utilities in 20 everything? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: See, there's $14,000 23 right here. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Oil and gas prices, 25 maybe. 9-12-05 265 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Maybe. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Propane. It's high. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It did go up in the 4 budget from year before last to this year; we added a 5 certain percentage, Tommy and I did, and now at the end, I 6 -- all I can say is gas and oil -- they haven't changed 7 anything out there. It's got to be just the cost. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: $14,000 in these two 9 offices. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or 11 comments? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 12 your right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Budget 17 Amendment Request Number 4. 18 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. Number 4 is for the 19 216th and the 198th District Courts. The first part is for 20 the 198th -- I mean the 216th court, to transfer 11,184.10 21 from Special Trials, 198.10 to Office Supplies, 10,846 to 22 Court-Appointed Attorneys, and $140 to Court Transcripts. 23 Bottom half of that is for the 198th court. The request is 24 to transfer $538 from Special Trials, $338 in Interpreters 25 and $200 in Special Court Reporters. 9-12-05 266 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved, with a comment. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second, with a 3 comment. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. 5 Questions or discussion? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My comment is, is this a 7 typo under the interpreter? Shouldn't that be 10-436? 8 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, actually, no. I -- 9 that 434 department is for jury -- juries. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 11 MR. TOMLINSON: That Interpreters line item 12 is in that jury department. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Same comment as 15 before. It's just awfully dangerous to have these big pots 16 of money laying around that are easy to tap. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We'll find out what 18 happens when we don't have them, 'cause we don't have them 19 in this year's budget. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Stay tuned. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 22 comment? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 23 your right hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 9-12-05 267 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Budget 3 Amendment Request Number 5. 4 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 5 is for the County 5 Clerk. She's requesting a transfer of $750 from Software 6 Maintenance to Lease Copier. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 10 approval. Any question or comment? All in favor of the 11 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Budget 16 Amendment Request Number 6. 17 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 6 is for Rabies and 18 Animal Control. The request is to transfer $10.77 from 19 Office Supplies to Lease Copier. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 23 approval. Any question or comment? All in favor of the 24 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 9-12-05 268 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Budget 4 Amendment Request Number 7. 5 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 7 is from the Sheriff 6 for the jail and the Sheriff's Department. He's requesting 7 a transfer of 2,165.12 from Jailers' Salaries, 47.30 into 8 Office Supplies, 407.85 into Vehicle Gas and Oil, 1,702.98 9 to Operating Supplies, and $6.99 to Radio Repairs. For the 10 Sheriff's Office, he's requesting a transfer of 6,722.26 11 from Deputies' Salaries, 309.90 to Operating Expenses and 12 6,412.36 to Vehicle Gas and Oil. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move to approve. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 16 approval. Any questions or comments? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Question. Vehicle Gas 18 and Oil. We'll do it again at the end of this month? 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Did you cover enough to 20 go through the rest of it, Tommy? Or is it just for this 21 bill? 22 MR. TOMLINSON: I -- I think so. We -- 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Estimate what that will 24 leave. Our monthly bills in gas and oil for the Sheriff's 25 Office is -- last month was almost 9,000. 9-12-05 269 1 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't think we did budget 2 for next month, no. So, this is -- 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We'll do it one more 4 time. 5 MR. TOMLINSON: This is for just this bill. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We'll go through it one 7 more time. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or 9 comments? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 10 your right hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Budget 15 Amendment Request Number 8. 16 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. Number 8 is for 17 Nondepartmental. We need to transfer $600 from the Computer 18 Telephone line item to the Pauper Burial. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 22 approval. Any question or comment? All in favor of the 23 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 9-12-05 270 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Budget 3 Amendment Request Number 9. 4 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 9 is a request from 5 Judge Brown to transfer 85.67 from his Telephone line item 6 to Office Supplies. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move to approve. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 11 approval. Any question or comment? All in favor of the 12 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Budget 17 Amendment Request Number 10. 18 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. Number 10 is for the 19 Auditor's office to transfer $500 from Part-Time Salary line 20 item to Office Supplies. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 24 approval. Any question or comment? All in favor of the 25 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 9-12-05 271 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Any 5 further budget amendments? 6 MR. TOMLINSON: I have one. You don't have 7 Number 11? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 10 MR. TOMLINSON: I guess they didn't make 11 copies. Number 11 is for the Treasurer's office and -- and 12 the Auditor's office. The Treasurer is requesting an 13 addition of 3,166.63 for her Part-Time Salary line item, 14 with $190.56 from Postage, $500 from the Telephone line 15 item, $140 from the Lease Copier line item, 936.98 from 16 Conferences, $124.07 from Capital Outlay, and 1,275.02 from 17 my -- from the Auditor's Part-Time Salary line item. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Move for approval. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 21 approval of Budget Amendment Request Number 11. Any 22 question or discussion? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. How did that 24 happen? 25 MS. NEMEC: How did -- that we need part-time 9-12-05 272 1 money? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 3 MS. NEMEC: Is that what -- okay. I had told 4 the Court several times throughout the year that that was 5 going to happen with our training, you know, with my new 6 employee coming in in January. We just got behind, and 7 Jackie had to work extra hours. And then she also had some 8 vacation accumulated from last year that she hadn't taken, 9 and she took vacation, and so I knew I was going to be 10 short. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So it's very likely 12 this kind of thing wouldn't happen next year? 13 MS. NEMEC: No. As a matter of fact, I said 14 whatever vacation she's got has to be taken within the 15 budget year so that, you know, if there is a chance that she 16 needs to work over, then it won't impact us this bad the way 17 it did. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And there won't be any 19 training with new employees. 20 MS. NEMEC: Yeah. Yeah, everything is 21 smoothing out in the office, and things are getting better, 22 so she hasn't had to work the overtime any more. And I 23 don't see it happening. I had offered for -- instead of it 24 coming out of the Auditor's office, to come out of my salary 25 line item, but they saw that they had money in that, so they 9-12-05 273 1 suggested that. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or 3 comments? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 4 your right hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Do we 9 have any late bills? 10 MR. TOMLINSON: I have one. It's for $23,900 11 for postage in the Tax Office. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I assume you need a hand check 15 to U.S. Postmaster? 16 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Motion made and 18 seconded for approval of late bill and hand check, $23,900 19 for Tax Office to the U.S. Postmaster. Any question or 20 discussion? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It'd just be stupid of 22 me to ask if that's a budgeted amount. Of course, I'm -- if 23 I were going to ask it -- which I'm not, but if I were going 24 to, is that a budgeted amount? 25 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 9-12-05 274 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or 3 comments? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 4 your right hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. I 9 don't see any monthly reports here. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Do we have any reports from 12 any of the Commissioners in connection with their liaison 13 assignments? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me get back to the reports 16 section. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: I've been tendered reports 19 from Justice of the Peace, Precinct 3; Justice of the Peace, 20 Precinct 2; County Clerk, with a notation, "August, General 21 Fund"; Sheriff's, with a notation, "Civil"; and Justice of 22 the Peace, Precinct 1. Do I hear a motion that these 23 reports be approved as presented? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 9-12-05 275 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 2 approval. Any question or discussion? All in favor of the 3 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We're 8 back to the reports from the Commissioners and their liaison 9 assignments or otherwise. Commissioner Baldwin? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Williams? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I've been too busy 13 with budget. I don't have anything, Judge. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Letz? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Two things. One -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- remember to come to 18 Hermann Sons Bridge Wednesday morning, and two, now that we 19 have budget, I think, behind us, I can concentrate on 20 Subdivision Rules and get those up here very soon. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What time is that 22 Wednesday? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 10 o'clock in the 24 morning. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We got the governor 9-12-05 276 1 coming. 2 MS. PIEPER: Where is everybody going to park 3 at? 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's what I want to 5 know. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You won't have any 7 deputies down there to direct traffic? 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I will have somebody 9 down there. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I got a budget 11 meeting tonight at the Hunt Methodist Church, and you're all 12 invited. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Man, you're a glutton 14 for punishment. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think I'll pass. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other reports from elected 17 officials? Department heads? Any other business? We stand 18 adjourned. 19 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 4:47 p.m.) 20 - - - - - - - - - - 21 22 23 24 25 9-12-05 277 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 5 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 6 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 7 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 21st day of September, 8 2005. 9 10 11 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 12 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 13 Certified Shorthand Reporter 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 9-12-05