1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Special Session 10 Monday, September 26, 2005 11 9:00 a.m. 12 District Courtroom #1 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 DAVE NICHOLSON, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X September 26, 2005 2 PAGE --- Visitors' Input .................................... 5 3 --- Commissioners' Comments ............................ 7 4 1.1 Consider, discuss and take appropriate action considering the use of Road District Funds ......... 9 5 1.2 Consider, discuss and take appropriate action on repealing Court Order No. 28266 requiring 25% 6 reserve fund balance to be maintained by County .... 14, 141 7 1.3 Consider, discuss and take action on 05-06 budget change recommendations ............................. 14, 8 131 1.7 Public Hearing on proposed salary, expenses and 9 other allowances of elected county or precinct officers for FY 2005/2006 .......................... 40, 10 143 1.9 Public Hearing on proposed FY 2005/2006 Kerr County 11 budget ............................................. 60, 145 12 1.16 Consider, discuss and take appropriate action to approve Resolution of Opposition to application for 13 an Air Quality Permit filed with TCEQ by Wheatcraft, Inc. for a rock-crushing operation in Center Point... 96 14 1.4 Consider, discuss and approve the Sheriff and Constables fees as authorized by LGC 118.131 ....... 136 15 1.5 Consider, discuss and take appropriate action on VAWA grant-funded special prosecutor's salary and 16 budget ............................................. 138 1.8 Consider, discuss and take appropriate action on 17 setting the salary, expenses and other allowances of elected county/precinct officers for FY '05/'06.. 144 18 1.10 Consider, discuss and take appropriate action to adopt the proposed FY 2005/2006 Kerr County budget.. 145 19 1.11 Consider, discuss and take appropriate action on recommendation and request for court action in 20 filling County Extension Agent-FCS position ........ 148 1.6 Clarification of minimum lot size for Kerr County 21 Subdivisions with community water .................. 152 1.12 Consider, discuss and take appropriate action on 22 implementing the Burn Ban .......................... 158 1.13 Consider, discuss and take appropriate action to 23 approve Kerr County Facilities Booking and Rental Policy ............................................. 159 24 1.21 Consider, discuss and take appropriate action on Kerr County Emergency Management Plan ............. 173 25 3 1 I N D E X (Continued) September 26, 2005 2 PAGE 1.20 Consider, discuss and approve Resolution for 3 cooperation between Kerr County Commissioners Court and City of Kerrville City Council .......... 186 4 1.14 Consider, discuss and take appropriate action to correct Court Order 29360 due to ministerial 5 mistake ............................................ 190 1.15 Consider, discuss and take appropriate action to 6 select a process for naming the members of Library Advisory Board to be selected by the Kerr County 7 Commissioners Court ............................... 191 1.17 Consider, discuss and approval of Resolution or 8 other action to participate in Indigent Defense Grant Program, authorize County Judge to sign ..... 193 9 1.18 Consider, discuss and take appropriate action on purchase of new Odyssey software package from 10 The Software Group, authorize County Judge to sign contracts for purchase of same .................... 194 11 1.19 Consider, discuss and approve contract between Kerr County and Hart Intercivic for eSlate, 12 authorize County Judge to sign .................... 197 13 4.1 Pay Bills ......................................... 200 4.2 Budget Amendments ................................. 201 14 4.3 Late Bills ........................................ --- 4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports ................ 207 15 --- Adjourned ......................................... 209 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 4 1 On Monday, September 26, 2005, at 9:00 a.m., a special 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 District Courtroom #1, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville, 4 Texas, and the following proceedings were had in open court: 5 P R O C E E D I N G S 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Ladies and gentlemen, it looks 7 like we're going to have more folks wanting to attend today 8 than we have adequate seating for. We've made arrangements 9 for one of the district courtrooms upstairs that has 10 additional seating available. Is it 1 or 2? Ms. Mitchell 11 had inquired about that. 12 MS. NEMEC: She's finding out. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: One? Okay, let's go up to 14 Courtroom Number 1. As you get off the elevator, it'll be 15 to your right. 16 (Commissioners Court meeting moved upstairs to District Courtroom #1.) 17 - - - - - - - - - - 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Good morning, ladies 19 and gentlemen. Let me call to order the regularly scheduled 20 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court scheduled for 21 this date and time, Monday, September the 26th, 2005, at 22 9 a.m. We had a slight delay as we moved the location to 23 allow for more participation. We appreciate your indulgence 24 there. Commissioner 3, I believe you're up this morning. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Would everyone please 9-26-05 5 1 stand and join me in a moment of prayer, followed by the 2 pledge. 3 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you very much. At this 5 time, if there is any member of the audience or the public 6 that wishes to be heard with regard to an item or a matter 7 that is not a posted or a listed agenda item, we ask that 8 you come forward now. If you wish to speak or be heard on a 9 matter or item which is a listed agenda item, we would ask 10 that you fill out a participation form. Those are located 11 at the back of the room. I've got several of them that have 12 been provided to me already. It's not absolutely essential, 13 but it helps me keep track of who needs to speak or is 14 desiring to speak on a given item. So, if you would be kind 15 enough to fill out that participation form, we would greatly 16 appreciate it. The clerk has some here for anybody that 17 might be needing them. If you'll just raise your hand, 18 she'll be happy to get one to you. Is there any member of 19 the public that wishes to be heard on a matter that is not a 20 listed agenda item? If so, please come forward at this 21 time. Yes, sir? When you come forward, if you would give 22 your name and address so that the record will be complete. 23 Thank you, sir. 24 MR. MILLER: I take it the library is not a 25 listed agenda item? 9-26-05 6 1 AUDIENCE: Yes, it is. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: It -- it is a budget issue, 3 obviously, Mr. Miller. 4 MR. MILLER: Or as it's not a budget matter. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I think we're going to 6 find that it is, Mr. Miller. 7 MR. MILLER: Very well. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I think we will. 9 MR. MILLER: I turned in a form, so -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: I have your form here, and I 11 will place it with the library. I'll mark it on that. 12 MR. MILLER: Thank you. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there any other member of 14 the public that wishes to be heard on an agenda -- on an 15 item that is not listed on the agenda? Any member of the 16 public? Yes, ma'am, please come forward. 17 MS. KAHANT: I'm in the same quandary as 18 Mr. Miller; I'm not sure. My name is Carolyn Kahant. I 19 live at 300 Cedar Springs Road in Ingram. But I'm not sure 20 if I should be speaking now or wait, because I -- what I'm 21 going to say has to do with several items, and I don't want 22 to get to the agenda item and then not be able to cover 23 that. So -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Several items related to 25 the budget? 9-26-05 7 1 MS. KAHANT: Budget, right. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. If you don't mind, I 3 will mark you as a budget speaker. 4 MS. KAHANT: Okay. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 6 MS. KAHANT: Thank you. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other member of the 8 audience or the public that wishes to be heard on a matter 9 that is not a listed agenda item? Seeing no one else 10 desiring to be recognized or coming forward, Commissioner 3, 11 do you have anything for us this morning? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll just make a brief 13 comment, that we're far removed here from what's happening 14 in east Texas and Louisiana, but over the weekend, or -- I 15 guess over the weekend, starting Friday, I was fortunate to 16 be able to house five families at my residence, over in the 17 cabins, and it really brought home to me what some of these 18 people have gone through. One of the families are from New 19 Orleans, and their house was severely damaged by Katrina. 20 And what these people are going through is absolutely 21 horrible, and I just hope that all of our prayers are with 22 those people and those far distant from us. I know it's a 23 very sad situation. That's all I have. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I have nothing, 25 Judge. 9-26-05 8 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir, I don't 3 have -- I have nothing. I'm just excited about seeing this 4 many citizens. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Williams? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just a comment, that 7 it is good to see a number of folks out interested in what 8 the county government does. I know a lot of you here are 9 here about the -- about the library issue, and we'll be 10 dealing with that forthwith, and some of you are here -- are 11 here as a result of a town hall meeting we had in Center 12 Point last Tuesday night with respect to the air quality 13 permit for the proposed rock-crushing facility on the 14 Guadalupe River. We welcome you both. For whatever purpose 15 you're here, we welcome you, and please feel free to 16 participate. Just don't throw tomatoes. (Laughter.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: That it, Commissioner? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's it. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Just as a matter 20 of procedure, when we get to the budget, those of you that 21 have reviewed the agenda will note that there is a public 22 hearing set on the budget at 10:30, and immediately 23 thereafter there's an action item on that matter. If -- if 24 we are still proceeding with matters related to the 25 budget -- discussions, debate, et cetera -- my intention is, 9-26-05 9 1 as close to 10:30 as possible, to call that item, and then, 2 depending upon the amount of time needed, to possibly recess 3 that item until we can continue the debate on the items 4 related to the budget. I -- I choose to do this so that 5 everybody will have an opportunity to be heard, even 6 possibly before the public hearing, if that's their desire. 7 But we will still have the public hearing immediately before 8 the action item in order that everyone who wishes to be 9 heard on that item can be heard. Let's get on with the 10 agenda, if we might. The first item on the agenda is to 11 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action concerning 12 the use of road district funds. Mr. Odom? 13 MR. ODOM: Thank you, Judge. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 15 MR. ODOM: While I was away was -- the last 16 meeting I was on vacation, and the matter of the capital 17 outlays came up, and the question was on road funds. And I 18 would like to enlighten the Court about -- that question was 19 by the Auditor, that I may know something about it, and I 20 know something. The legal question is -- is yet to be 21 resolved. But the one that was here at the time was Buster, 22 I believe, when the road districts were set up. And 23 understanding that, that what was -- what was a bond issue 24 like we've had in the past, as the statutes say, but it was 25 something that was done through 611, which was our working 9-26-05 10 1 budget, was taken out of reserves. And then I'm not -- I've 2 not been able to find a lot of information. That's the 3 reason you have this packet late; that we had to go through 4 and get as much information as we had in our files. But, 5 essentially, this is that there was over $200,000 that they 6 determined would complete the projects. They spent over 7 $300,000, never completed the road districts. Jerry Menafee 8 was here at that time. That money came totally out of 611, 9 though I'm not quite sure what the wording was on the court 10 order; however, those funds were to be repaid back to our 11 reserves. And it was set up as a road district fund, 12 separate than 611. 13 When we got here 15 years ago, not all the 14 road districts were completed, so we took those funds, and 15 to find out what was going on, they spent more money than 16 what the people were being taxed for to repay that. And I 17 took that money, and each year I went through and I took a 18 road and I rebuilt that road, every year. Now we've 19 completed all that, and you can see that in this data that 20 we have $170,000, $180,000 left, and part of this funding 21 has already been repaid. Some of the road districts are 22 done. The question I can't answer the Court -- and we asked 23 Rex to review this, and the opinion is at this time we'd 24 like to defer this matter until I have a legal opinion to 25 make sure. But Dr. Odom here speaking assumes that the 9-26-05 11 1 intent -- the intent was to repay that money totally back to 2 611, and that it wasn't to be separate, and that since all 3 the roads were -- are taken care of now and they're in our 4 general maintenance -- and I believe that's the way the 5 court order shows, that we pick it up in general maintenance 6 now. That -- but the object was to make sure that everyone 7 that was being taxed got their roads rebuilt. That's what 8 we did when we came here. And -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Leonard, is -- is the 10 amount of money that's sitting in the fund today equal or 11 more than what was taken out of Fund 11 years ago? 12 MR. ODOM: Almost equal now, mm-hmm. What's 13 left right now. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So -- so what I'm 15 hearing you say is that the people -- they taxed themselves. 16 We did not tax them. 17 MR. ODOM: Taxpayers did not, just those 18 people. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: On the road district, 20 and the amount of money that came in from those taxes -- it 21 actually cost more to build the road than the amount that 22 came in. 23 MR. ODOM: That's right. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And so we took the 25 money out of Fund 11, which is your reserves, to cover that. 9-26-05 12 1 And -- okay. 2 MR. ODOM: And they were to pay it back, 3 different road districts. There must have been four or five 4 road districts. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There was five. 6 MR. ODOM: And 15- to 20-year payback. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right. 8 MR. ODOM: And so they're paying back that 9 portion that the reserves built for them. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 11 MR. ODOM: What I'm saying, now that I've got 12 everything done, and I would like the Court to consider 13 that -- if it's not this year, at least next year, to 14 consider that this is not separate. Or -- I mean, we're 15 through, and that it should be able to go in reserves and I 16 should be able to use that money for what there needs to be. 17 And my needs more than any there are capital outlays, to 18 keep my equipment up, particularly. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If it's legal. If 20 Rex -- 21 MR. ODOM: If it is legal. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If it's legal to 23 reimburse your fund, I'm -- I'm all for that. And if there 24 is -- if it's not legal, and there are -- or there is moneys 25 over and above the amount that was originally brought out of 9-26-05 13 1 Fund 11, then we need to reimburse that to the taxpayers. 2 MR. ODOM: That's the way I feel. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 4 MR. ODOM: So, I -- basically, what I'm 5 saying is -- is enlightening you on this information, and 6 really asking for deferment on this decision, 'cause I don't 7 have the legal part answered yet. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mr. Odom, there's one 10 page in this handout that you gave us that identifies five 11 different road districts, and I guess we're going back to 12 1988; is that correct? 13 MR. ODOM: That's correct. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And it shows a total 15 at the bottom of $201,792. Is that the balance that you 16 believe is available for -- 17 MR. ODOM: I believe that that balance is 18 181,000 at this point. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You think it's 181? 20 MR. ODOM: But over the period of time, I've 21 spent that money itself to rebuild those roads, so it 22 exceeded that amount of money that we received. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 24 MR. ODOM: They initially spent 300,000 plus 25 on top of what we spent over the last 15 years to get them. 9-26-05 14 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything further? 3 MR. ODOM: No, sir. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Does any member of the Court 5 have any questions for Mr. Odom, or propose any action on 6 this item? If not, thank you, sir. We'll move on to Item 7 Number 2, consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on 8 repealing Court Order Number 28266 requiring General 9 Operating Reserve Fund balance of 25 percent to be 10 maintained by Kerr County during such fiscal period, and if 11 necessary, set new percentage. Commissioner Nicholson? 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Judge, if I may, I'd 13 like to defer that item until we know more about what the 14 reserve fund may be. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All right, thank you. We'll 16 move to Item 3; consider, discuss, and take appropriate 17 action on '05-'06 budget change recommendation. 18 Commissioner Nicholson? 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, I sound like a 20 broken record, but I have to say it again, that our county 21 government is a very expensive government compared to 13 22 other counties our size. And in my -- in my analysis of 23 that issue, it's not necessarily that tax revenues are too 24 low; the problem is that costs are too high. One of the 25 things I continue to hear throughout this process is that 9-26-05 15 1 the deficit budget we're facing is caused, in large part, by 2 the fact that we granted the tax freeze to those who are 3 over 65 and disabled, and that is $140,000 that that cost us 4 this year. That'll go up in future years, but $140,000 5 revenue shortfall, compared to $2.3 million in increased 6 costs, is not very significant. We have been steadily 7 spending down the reserve fund. Last year we adapted -- 8 adopted a policy that the reserve fund shouldn't be less 9 than 25 percent, and I think now we're looking at a fund 10 that will be less than 20 percent. That's a very 11 significant and very troubling event in Kerr County. 12 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, I asked myself, 14 why are our costs so high? Why do we cost so much more than 15 other counties our size? And there's a variety of different 16 reasons, but I'm just looking at the real big bucks, the 17 large reasons. One of them is that we have more employees 18 and a larger payroll than any other county our size. Even 19 more significant than that in recent times is the Juvenile 20 Detention Center, and that's -- that is and is going to be a 21 financial disaster for Kerr County. In my estimation, it's 22 going to cost us $763,000 this year. Now, that's -- on a 23 budget of, what, around $19 million, that's very 24 significant. Another cause is the spending that we do in 25 connection with contracts with the City of Kerrville. We've 9-26-05 16 1 not been able to -- to bring those costs in check or deal 2 with issues of rising -- rapidly rising costs there. I see 3 the deficit spending can't continue. We had a deficit 4 spending budget last year; we've got a large one this year. 5 It's got to be stopped somewhere, and if we don't start now, 6 we're going -- it's just going to be more and more difficult 7 to deal with it later. 8 Going back through the budget page by page, 9 looking for opportunities to cut costs, I came up with four 10 different categories that have the potential for $460,000 in 11 savings. The first one is to reduce by 10 percent the 12 salaries of elected officials and appointed department heads 13 whose current salaries are above $40,000 a year. Those 14 elected officials and department heads are those who can and 15 should be held responsible for spending our way into this 16 financial crisis and -- and continuing the practices that 17 have led us to be an expensive county. I said $75,000 in 18 savings there. When we get around to the part of the budget 19 that deals with the officials' salaries, I think the savings 20 will be more like $100,000. I propose that we abolish nine 21 additional positions, and I've outlined them. The County 22 Clerk's office, two; Treasurer, one; Tax Assessor, two; 23 Sheriff, one; Environmental Health, one; Facilities and 24 Maintenance, one; and J.P. 1 and 3 clerks, one. By -- based 25 on the data I have, the staff reductions that we've turned 9-26-05 17 1 in earlier, then add these staff reductions to it, and we'll 2 still be the county our size with the largest employee 3 census. 4 I propose to abolish the Trapper contract and 5 to cut Extension Service and County-sponsored activities by 6 20 percent. That would bring about a $65,000 savings. I 7 propose that -- that once we get the report of -- from the 8 committee that's studying EMS issues, that we seek to 9 renegotiate the contract with the County on EMS midyear, and 10 that the changes that could be brought about would eliminate 11 the 400-some thousand dollar loss that the City and the 12 County incur on that contract. And if we're able to do 13 that, then that would be a $100,000 savings in this year's 14 budget, half of the annual $200,000 savings. I expect there 15 are other opportunities for cost reductions, but these are 16 the ones that -- that came to mind when I went back through 17 and analyzed the budget. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Any member of the Court have 19 any observations on those or other budget matters? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have some 21 observations on some other budget matters, Judge. I'll 22 present them to you now -- present it to the Court now with 23 some comment. This basically has to do with the 24 Butt-Holdsworth Library, and I want to make some comments 25 about it and where we are today. Let the record be clear; I 9-26-05 18 1 support the increased county funding for the Butt-Holdsworth 2 Library for the 2005-'06 fiscal year, and I will identify 3 certain adjustments to our budget to increase our share of 4 funding. The rest will be up to the City of Kerrville. But 5 first some comments on current events. 6 It appears that even in Kerrville, it has 7 become good sport to play a local version of the Hurricane 8 Katrina blame game regarding library funding issues. What 9 distresses me the most has been the absence of complete 10 budget information which has been in the possession of the 11 City since midyear, but not provided to the County, and the 12 current attitude toward county government displayed and 13 articulated by library management. There is no valid reason 14 why, over the course of our budget process, library 15 management has never taken the time nor made the effort to 16 come to Commissioners Court and explain the library 17 operation and any of its unique or special needs. We are 18 left to read in the newspaper that reduced funding places 19 the library's accreditation and perhaps state funding grants 20 in jeopardy. If, indeed, this is the case, would it not 21 have been more productive to all concerned to present this 22 information directly to Commissioners Court at an 23 appropriate time, thus preventing your fifty-fifty funding 24 partner from reading this information with accompanying 25 negative comment in the local newspaper? Common sense and 9-26-05 19 1 common courtesy suggests this to me. 2 Also, is it unreasonable to expect more than 3 a library fund budget summary that contains no detail on 4 operations sooner than one week before the county budget is 5 finalized and presented for approval? The new library 6 contract approved by Commissioners Court last Monday has the 7 potential to move the library support and oversight in a new 8 direction. This is long overdue, in my opinion, but also 9 overdue is a frank discussion and the sharing of information 10 about library operations. Finding additional funding at the 11 last minute is not the ultimate solution. The ultimate 12 solution, however, lies in the formation of a county-wide 13 library district. Chapter 326 of the Local Government Code 14 deals specifically with the creation, funding, and 15 operations and oversight of library districts, which may 16 include incorporated and unincorporated territory. For our 17 purposes, all of Kerr County. 18 I call upon the Mayor and the City Council 19 today to work with us to place the issue of creating a 20 library district, election of directors, and funding to come 21 from existing sales and use tax before the voters at the 22 earliest possible date. Once accomplished, that should 23 forever put to an end City/County squabbling over library 24 funding. It will also allow both the City and the County to 25 reduce our respective tax rates accordingly. The 9-26-05 20 1 appointment of a task force charged with the task of 2 developing a firm plan of action within the next six months 3 is a very good place to start. Now for the specifics for 4 this year. First, Kerr County's share of library funding is 5 not $416,113, as presented. This amount should be reduced 6 to $398,613 by removing a charge for building and structures 7 maintenance and repairs. This item is the sole 8 responsibility of the City, which owns the building. 9 I propose adjustments to the Kerr County 10 budget as follows: Line item 10-406-486, Professional 11 Services, reduced by $5,000. I'm talking about our budget, 12 so that moneys can be transferred. Reduced 5,000. Line 13 Item 10-515-451, Detention Center Repairs, reduced by 14 $5,000. Line Item 10-595-450, Airport Operation, reduced 15 25,000, of which 9,000 was originally overbudgeted. That 16 would be a $16,000 reduction on our budget. Line Item 17 10-662-232, Trapper Contract, reduce it by $5,000. Line 18 Item 10-666-105, Secretary's Salary in the Maintenance 19 Department, change it to part-time, reducing that figure to 20 $10,000 -- by $10,000. Line Item 31-662-486, Flat Rock Lake 21 Park, reduce funding by $10,000. Line Item 41-634-115 22 Records Archival, reduced by $5,000. Total reductions to 23 the County budget to be transferred to the library, I 24 propose to Line Item 19-659-491, would be an additional 25 $65,000. This brings our funding level to $365,000, and if 9-26-05 21 1 my math is correct, would leave a shortfall from what was 2 proposed by the City, adjusted by what I said to you 3 earlier, of about $33,613. This amount, if the Court 4 approves, can be taken from the estimated fund balances, 5 which is not a savings account; it's fund balances, and is 6 to be used for purposes for the good and welfare of the -- 7 of the county and all of our residents. And that would 8 reduce our year ending reserves by one-half percentage 9 point. Any member of the press who wants a copy of this is 10 welcome to it. Judge, that would be my motion, to adjust 11 the budget by those figures. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion to adjust the 13 Kerr County budget by the numbers as enumerated by 14 Commissioner Williams. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I have some 16 comments before we -- I mean, I'm not ready to make an 17 second quite yet on the issue. I want to get back to Number 18 4's comments earlier, and number two abolished nine 19 additional positions. I see what you're talking about, 20 Commissioner, until you get down to the J.P. 1 and J.P. 3 21 issue of reducing an employee. Would you explain -- I know 22 you've explained that before to us, and I just have a short 23 memory. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I would combine two 25 clerk jobs into one, Commissioner. The two J.P.'s would 9-26-05 22 1 share a -- a clerk. That might be difficult, but it's 2 doable. It can be done. I have done some research. I 3 notice that not all counties our size have four J.P.'s, so 4 somehow or another, other counties get by with fewer people 5 and less clerical help. 6 JUDGE ELLIOTT: I'd like to address the 7 issue. Vance Elliott, J.P. 1. Commissioner Nicholson, 8 you've been in office three years. Have you spent 30 9 minutes in one of the these -- either J.P. 1 or J.P. 3's 10 office? 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I've spent many, 12 many hours in J.P. 4's office. Are they significantly 13 different? 14 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Very different. So, you 15 don't really know what goes on in J.P. 1 or J.P. 3's office, 16 do you? 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I expect the clerk 18 performs the same functions in J.P. 1 office as the clerk in 19 J.P. 4 office. 20 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Are you aware that an 21 Attorney General's opinion has stated that a justice of the 22 peace precinct office must be within the precinct? 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes, sir. 24 JUDGE ELLIOTT: So how would you split one 25 employee into two different precincts? 9-26-05 23 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, there's a 2 couple of ways you could do that. You could put the office 3 together and draw a yellow line between them designating 4 which one's Precinct 1 and which one's Precinct 3, or the 5 clerk could move back and forth, or there -- probably you 6 could come up with a different solution. 7 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Do you have any idea how many 8 transactions are brought into one of the precinct J.P.'s, as 9 far as how many tickets, how much revenue and things like 10 that are bought into the county through the J.P. office? 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I see your report 12 once a month. 13 JUDGE ELLIOTT: But do you know what it is? 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes, I get a report 15 from you once a month. 16 JUDGE ELLIOTT: So you know how much 17 transactions? Would you give me an idea about how many 18 transactions that would be? 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You tell me. 20 JUDGE ELLIOTT: So you don't know. And so I 21 certainly hope that your other proposals to the 22 Commissioners Court are a little more well thought out than 23 your proposal to split a person between J.P. 1 and J.P. 3, 24 since that is very much a full-time job, and the person 25 stays extremely busy making sure that revenues are brought 9-26-05 24 1 in and tickets are taken care of properly and the dockets 2 are set and the court orders are made. Thank you. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I apologize for 4 asking that question. (Laughter.) I will not ask that 5 question again. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't think you'll need to, 7 will you? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think I'm pretty 9 clear on this. So, as most of you guys know, I have spent a 10 lot of time looking at and studying politicians, and there's 11 some interesting folks around that are good politicians, but 12 I think there's one that has arrived amongst us that just is 13 the king of the -- king of the mat, and that's our new 14 mayor. By reading the newspaper -- and it's not a bad 15 thing; I'm not saying anything bad about the guy, just 16 telling you he's a good politician. I see in the newspaper 17 where he appeared before probably this same group here, or a 18 similar group that's interested in the library, and his 19 answer to them was, "Well, you've got to go talk to the 20 County," and I just find that just absolutely amazing. What 21 a -- what a wonderful political move. And then we get a -- 22 then we get a letter from my good friend Joe explaining that 23 he wasn't invited over there, but -- you know, on and on. I 24 mean, the guy's a great politician. I admire him very much 25 for that. 9-26-05 25 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Neither was the 2 County Judge invited. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Excuse me? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Neither was the 5 County Judge invited. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand, and 7 that's fine. I just wanted to comment that the guy is a 8 phenomenal politician. 9 MR. BENHAM: Your Honor, may I -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, I'm not through. 11 Just hold on here. 12 MR. BENHAM: Okay, sorry. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: One of the things 14 that's bothering me about -- this is the library budget that 15 arrived in my hands last week. Not very much time. And 16 I've gotten to where I kind of understand our budget and how 17 numbers look and where they go and what columns and, you 18 know, that kind of thing, so I'm getting used to ours a 19 little bit. After 16 years, I'm beginning to understand the 20 thing a little bit. But this one's thrown me a little bit, 21 and I tell you -- you know, no one has come to explain to me 22 what this means. And I'll give you an example. On Page 145 23 of this budget, there is a section titled "Maintenance and 24 Repairs." And under Maintenance and Repairs is Building and 25 structures, Maintenance Contracts, City Garage; Parts, City 9-26-05 26 1 Garage. I go over here a couple of more pages to Page 150, 2 and there's a section that's titled "Maintenance and 3 Repairs." And under Maintenance and Repairs is Maintenance 4 Contract, City Garage; Parts, City Garage. It's the same 5 thing as the one over here. And almost every page, there is 6 a Maintenance and Repairs column. Now, I'm not saying that 7 it's wrong. I'm just saying it definitely repeats itself 8 back there. But what I'm saying is, somebody needs to 9 explain to me -- before you ask me to vote and expend 10 taxpayers' money on something, you need to explain to me so 11 I can understand what I'm voting on. Now, the Library 12 Director, the last time he has been before this 13 Commissioners Court was several years ago when he came over 14 asking us to help purchase an elevator. Wasn't it an 15 elevator? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Half of an elevator. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Half of an elevator. 18 We authorized it, and it was three years later before the 19 elevator was put in. That's the last time we've seen the 20 guy. He needs to come before this Court and explain to us 21 what this is all about. I find that very poor, poor, poor 22 leadership. And then -- I wish he were here today. Is he 23 here? I didn't see him when we were downstairs. He should 24 be here today, shouldn't he? He should be here today 25 explaining this, and explaining exactly what he means by 9-26-05 27 1 he's going to lose funding and the place is going to be 2 closed down the sky's going to fall. Because if 3 maintenance -- what does he mean by "maintenance"? What 4 does the state mean by maintenance? 5 MR. SHULTS: Mr. Baldwin, if you'll let me 6 address the Court -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I will when I get 8 through; I'll be happy to. Thank you. So -- 9 MR. SHULTS: I'll explain that. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, the point in all 11 of this is the guy should be here telling us what this is 12 all about. I've been here a long time, and I vote thousands 13 of times a year on issues, but the one time that is the most 14 important time is this budget. That's the single most vote 15 that I cast through the entire year, and I don't know what 16 the hell I'm voting on. And that's a sad, sad moment. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Commissioner? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Before I get angry, I 19 better pass it on. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Let me just make a couple 21 of comments, 'cause I know Commissioner Nicholson has a few 22 comments related to the library and other budget issues. I 23 want to make it real clear, I've always supported the 24 library, and I will continue to support the library. And I 25 think we can probably come up with a way to increase the 9-26-05 28 1 funding for the library this year, but there are some things 2 that need to be said, and everyone needs to understand. 3 First of all, the document to set up the Butt-Holdsworth 4 Library called for the City of Kerrville to manage the 5 library. The City of Kerrville owns the library. This is 6 not a fifty-fifty partnership. It was never intended to be 7 a fifty-fifty partnership. The documents say that the -- or 8 request -- ask that Kerr County pay basically half of the 9 operating deficit. We are not responsible for capital 10 improvements to that building. We have chosen to pay more 11 than our fair share for a number of years. We helped fund 12 the elevator; we've helped fund the roof. The City of 13 Kerrville has made it very clear this year that they want 14 everything to be dealt with in the City/County relationship 15 as "pay your fair share." Well, our fair share is not the 16 capital improvements at the library. That item, which, in 17 the budget summary provided, is $104,000, so that comes off 18 the top, in my mind. 19 Commissioner Baldwin made the comment -- he 20 was going through this document, and he had Pages 142, 144. 21 That's a little bit misleading. What we received last week 22 from the library was a summary that is all of probably six, 23 seven pages long. It has no backup, no detail of any kind 24 in it. The City of Kerrville has failed the taxpayers of 25 the city and the county and Friends of the Library and every 9-26-05 29 1 supporter of the library. We have a contract with the City 2 of Kerrville that is three pages long. The City has a staff 3 of legal people with a budget of over $250,000. They cannot 4 follow a three-page simple contract. That contract says in 5 April of each year, the library will meet with a designee of 6 this Court and go over the budget. That did not happen this 7 year or last year or the year before that. That contract 8 says that the library -- or the City will present the 9 library budget to the Commissioners Court by July 1st. We 10 received a summary of the library budget -- we still have 11 not received the library budget. The summary we received in 12 September. 13 How is it this Court's fault for funding when 14 the City is so incompetent that they cannot provide a budget 15 to the County according to a three-page contract? Why do 16 they have a legal staff that can't follow a three-page 17 contract? Why do they have a City Manager running a city 18 that's paid, last year, over $163,000 that can't prepare a 19 budget? It is absurd. If you all are mad -- I'm sure you 20 are, as I'm sure you can tell I am -- your anger shouldn't 21 be directed at us; it should be directed at the City Council 22 and City staff. They caused this problem by themselves. We 23 got to the point this year where this Court -- or this 24 Commissioner said enough is enough. We will be treated as 25 citizens -- or as equal players on joint projects with the 9-26-05 30 1 City. We are not going to put up with this "take it or 2 leave it" attitude they have, the arrogance they've had, and 3 the cavalier way they have dealt with the citizens of the 4 county and the city and this Commissioners Court. That will 5 not happen again. 6 I note we have one councilman in the 7 audience, and I will applaud Councilman Coleman. He is the 8 only member of the City Council that has come to me in the 9 past three or four months and wanted to try to solve the 10 solution. He asked me several weeks ago, one-on-one -- he 11 says, "Can we get through this problem?" I says, "Yes, we 12 can, in my opinion." He asked if we would have a joint 13 meeting, and I said, "The County is willing to meet with the 14 City Council at any time." Hopefully we will on this issue. 15 Mayor Smith would rather go to the Friends of the Library 16 meeting and make a statement, If your elected officials 17 don't do what you want with the library, then that's what 18 you do when you check the ballot. I agree with that, and I 19 hope every one of you go to the election next May and look 20 at what this City Council has done and make changes there. 21 It is ridiculous that they cannot follow a three-page simple 22 contract and they cannot present a budget to this county in 23 a timely manner. 24 All that being said, I will, again, be 25 willing to work with the City. Hopefully, we can get 9-26-05 31 1 through all this -- this poor relations that we currently 2 have with them. I will work with Commissioner Williams. 3 And I agree with most of his requests for additional 4 funding. The library's not going to get shut down. The 5 funding will come through, but the City is going to have to 6 do two things; acknowledge that they were wrong and did not 7 follow the contract they were in, and second, they have got 8 to come to this Court with a representative of the library 9 and City Manager, City Council -- I don't care -- and 10 explain the budget for the library. If they do those two 11 things, I will support additional funding. Not until then. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd like to add one 13 more comment, Judge, following on Commissioner Letz'. 14 Recently, Mr. Benham met with me, and we've talked on many 15 occasions about a lot of things, but we met after he made an 16 appearance before Commissioners Court with respect to this 17 same subject. We had just received what Commissioner Letz 18 referred to, and it came faxed over to us from -- from the 19 legal department. Not from the City Manager, but from the 20 legal department. From looking through this and meeting 21 with Mr. Benham, I asked him some questions. There is a 22 division expenditure summary, and it says -- and I want you 23 to listen to this, because it's important. General 24 operations -- it identifies five different categories of 25 library activity, I assume. General operations, no 9-26-05 32 1 explanation. Administration. The administrative costs of 2 the library equal 25 percent of the budget, administration. 3 Patron services. I asked Mr. Benham if he knew exactly what 4 patron services was all about. He and I together were 5 unable to figure exactly what that meant, but that's 6 19 percent of the budget; 6 percent less for patron services 7 than it costs to administer those services. Circulation 8 services. What are circulation services? They account for 9 29 percent of the budget, undefined. Technical services. 10 Even my feeble brain can tell you, that's probably computers 11 and things related thereto, 27 percent of the budget, 12 undefined. Ladies and gentlemen, there is a problem here. 13 It's not in this Commissioners Courtroom. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Just following up on 15 Commissioner Baldwin's comments about categories in the 16 budget, this -- this so-called budget document is numbered, 17 and, Commissioner, if you look at Page -- you were talking 18 about Page 145; it had some maintenance items on it that you 19 questioned. If you look up there at the top right-hand 20 column, Page 145 and 146 are kind of a year-old budget. 21 They don't fit in this budget. The question is probably a 22 moot point. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Commissioner, you're 24 saying the budget they provided is a two-year-old budget? 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No, part of it is 9-26-05 33 1 two years old and part of it's this year. I, too, wonder 2 where the Library Director is. I wrote the Library Director 3 on May 6th asking him to meet with me, as a representative 4 of the Court, to go over the library finances and budget. 5 Haven't heard from him. The Library Advisory Board became 6 concerned when they learned that there was no interaction 7 between the County and the City, and on June 24th, as 8 authorized by the Library Board, Randall Johnson wrote the 9 City Manager and asked if a representative from the City and 10 representative from the County would meet with the board to 11 discuss budget issues. He didn't get a response on that 12 request either. So, it is not -- the issue is not whether 13 or not the County and the Library Board made an effort to 14 get participation between the two entities. They did that, 15 and they were rebuffed. That's all I've got on the library. 16 On -- there was a motion, I think, that we act on these -- 17 Commissioner Williams' cuts. Procedurally, I don't know how 18 to -- how to go ahead and do that. I've got some cuts on 19 the table too, and I -- I think we need to consider all of 20 the proposed changes in their entirety. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, while y'all are 22 figuring that out, can I make one more comment, please? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Are you not mad any more? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, I'm not mad any 25 more. I've taken a deep breath. I looked out at Joe and 9-26-05 34 1 his smiling face, and I feel so much better about 2 everything. But I had gotten a phone call last night from 3 one of our -- and I won't name him, but he's one of our 4 great leaders in the City of Kerrville, and he's been around 5 here a long time, one of my heroes and a good man, saying 6 that we need to make sure that the County provides funding 7 for the library. And he said -- he made two statements. 8 One was, "Surely you can cut the budget somewhere to get the 9 funding. You could even go into the reserves to get the 10 funding." And you heard the report on the reserves, where 11 we are with the county reserves. That's -- that won't 12 happen. But cutting the county budget, I wanted to let you 13 know -- and you probably already know that in this budget 14 process this year, we have cut, I think, 14 employees out of 15 our system. That is a major cut. That's the first time in 16 my -- my memory, and probably the first time in history that 17 the County's ever made deep cuts like that. 18 Now, it's more than just dollars and cents. 19 We're a -- the county system is -- we're a family. These 20 are family people, our neighbors, and people -- we're 21 friends, and we get along real well. And we have disrupted 22 14 families' lives and cut them out. And they had -- the 23 elected officials didn't like doing it, but there wasn't a 24 bunch of moaning and screaming and crying and gnashing of 25 teeth. They simply said, "If that's what we have to do, 9-26-05 35 1 that's what we have to do, and we will do this, this, and 2 this to get along." Now, with that said -- and then I turn 3 around and see this library character whining and moaning 4 and talking about the library closing. I -- I really -- 5 that's enough. There I go. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Commissioner, I want to 7 make one more comment, and I want to refer to a member of 8 the -- of a former City Council that many you of know. He's 9 a Friend of the Library, Dr. John Huddleston. I received an 10 e-mail from him and a letter from him, and it was a -- it 11 was quite critical of the County and our -- what was 12 perceived, I guess, by the press and what's been in the 13 press about how we're not going to fund the library. And I 14 visited with Dr. Huddleston over the weekend at length and 15 explained to him what I personally have done in trying to 16 work with the City, about the personal meetings that I've 17 had with Councilman Wampler, Mayor Smith, the conversations 18 I've had with Councilman Bock, Councilman Meek. They were 19 all initiated by me, and not one time, other than the 20 meeting I referred to earlier with Councilman Coleman and 21 one time Councilman Bock called me on the phone, have they 22 ever contacted me. 23 I've worked with them. I went and talked, 24 sat in David Wampler's office for an hour over the EMS 25 issue, and his answer to me was, "This is not negotiable." 9-26-05 36 1 That is not an attitude that I can put up with and work 2 with. So, you know, I truly want you all to talk to your 3 City Council people. They are the problem here. Talk to 4 John Huddleston. I'm not going to say in public everything 5 I said to him; I don't want to air all that in public. But 6 I have no problem, and I have told him I have no problem 7 with him relaying that information to anyone in this 8 community. You talk to John Huddleston and you will find 9 out why the library is in the situation it is right now, and 10 the funding with the county. It's not the County's fault, I 11 promise you. 12 Related to the issue that you had, 13 Commissioner, and your budget cuts -- or budget adjustments, 14 as you know, and I think most of the community knows, I've 15 been kind of spearheading most of the cuts that went into 16 our budget. They were very difficult. I've made probably 17 every department head and every elected official in the 18 county quite irritated with me, because I've forced a lot of 19 cuts. I am not willing to do any further cuts of the 20 magnitude you were talking to at this time. I think our 21 reserves are dangerously low. I think 20 percent is lower 22 than I would like to -- or less than 20 percent, where I 23 think we currently are, is lower than I want it to be, but 24 I'd like to get through this year. If our situation does 25 not improve, if the Juvenile Detention Facility comes close 9-26-05 37 1 to the deficit that you mention of $750,000 -- which I don't 2 think will be the case, but if we have another bad year, 3 there will be another round of cuts next year, and I think I 4 voiced that in court before. 5 But at this point, you know, I think I am 6 satisfied with the -- the tax rate and the total budget 7 dollars we've allocated. And, as I said earlier, I think 8 there are areas that we can make some adjustment in the 9 budget through budget amendments, and provide additional 10 funding to the library once the City has come to us and 11 talked to us about what they actually need over at the 12 library, which we have not seen to this date. So, that kind 13 of answers your question about the cuts that you've 14 outlined. And related to the motion that Commissioner 15 Williams has, I'm not willing to second that at this point. 16 In my opinion, I think that most -- many of the areas that 17 he's outlined, there are available funds, but until the City 18 of Kerrville comes and presents a budget to the County, I'm 19 not willing to proceed further. 20 MS. TROLINGER: May I address the Court? 21 It's very short. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Ma'am, we're going to -- we're 23 going to take -- have you signed a participation form? 24 MS. TROLINGER: I'm getting ready to. 25 MS. NITZBERG: I signed one. 9-26-05 38 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Please, we're going to get to 2 you in due course, ma'am. 3 MS. TROLINGER: No, this is on -- basically 4 on the Commissioners' behalf. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, that will be fine. 6 MS. TROLINGER: Okay? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: That will be fine, but -- 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let the lady speak. 9 (Laughter.) 10 MS. TROLINGER: In your defense. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hold that thought. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: If you would, if you'd wait 13 until I call for the public participation, folks. 14 MS. TROLINGER: Okay. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: And even if you haven't signed 16 a participation form. We've got a motion on the floor; I 17 need to figure out where we are there. 18 MS. TROLINGER: Okay. Are there any more of 19 those forms available? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, they're at the back, and 21 Ms. Mitchell may have some right over here. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: County Clerk has 23 some. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, we'll get you one. 25 MS. TROLINGER: Thank you. 9-26-05 39 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The motion is related 3 to Commissioner Williams? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, Commissioner Williams 5 made a motion relative to -- 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Identifying seven 7 items. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: -- budget -- budget 9 adjustments to be made in his presentation to be transferred 10 to the library. And we have a motion. Do we have a second? 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion dies for lack of a 13 second. Commissioner, if I might, I want to try and stay on 14 track here. What I plan to do, then, is do a short recess, 15 go into the public hearing, recess that, and we'll come back 16 to where we are. 'Cause all of those items we're going to 17 come back to, and be after our public comments. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Question. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge -- 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That does not -- the 21 lack of a second at this point -- excuse me -- does not 22 preclude my bringing these back up under that issue? Is 23 that -- under that title? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Of course not. You have every 25 opportunity. 9-26-05 40 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge -- and just for the 3 audience's benefit, all the people that wish to speak on 4 this topic, as soon as we come back, we'll start that 5 process. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: We're going to come right back 7 to it. I think we're through with the Commissioners' 8 comments, and we'll come right back to that. At this point, 9 I will recess the Commissioners Court meeting, and I will 10 open a public hearing on the proposed salary, expenses, and 11 other allowances of elected county or precinct officers for 12 Fiscal Year 2005-2006. 13 (The regular Commissioners Court meeting was recessed at 10 a.m., and a public hearing 14 was held in open court, as follows:) 15 P U B L I C H E A R I N G 16 JUDGE TINLEY: It is 10 o'clock, the time 17 that that item was posted for. Having said that, I will now 18 recess that public hearing. 19 (The public hearing was recessed at 10 a.m., and the regular Commissioners Court meeting 20 was reopened.) 21 - - - - - - - - - - 22 JUDGE TINLEY: We will come back to it later, 23 for those of you that want to comment, and I will reconvene 24 the Commissioners Court meeting. And we're back on Item 25 Number 3, consider, discuss, and take action on Fiscal Year 9-26-05 41 1 '05-'06 budget change recommendations. Do the Commissioners 2 have any further comments at this point in time? If not, we 3 will proceed to the public comment portion. Mr. Benham? 4 I've got yours on top, so let's take yours. Again, I would 5 remind you, as you come forward to speak, if you'd be kind 6 enough to identify yourself, give your name and address for 7 the record, I'd appreciate it. Thank you. 8 MR. BENHAM: Thank you, Your Honor, members 9 of the Court. I survived three years in the army without 10 getting shot, and I hope I can survive the dealings between 11 the City and County with my aging body reasonably intact as 12 well. I'd like -- with your permission, Your Honor, I'd 13 like to respond to two specific things. I don't pretend to 14 speak for the City, and I sure as shooting am smart enough 15 not to try to speak for Gene Smith. I do feel that it's 16 important to clarify, as the representative of the Friends 17 of the Library, the reason that the mayor spoke at that 18 meeting was he called and asked for an invitation. The 19 board of the Friends did not initiate his appearance before 20 that. He called and asked for an invitation. I feel 21 certain that, had any member of this Court expressed an 22 interest in coming to that meeting, you certainly would have 23 gotten a hearing, and -- I certainly would have argued in 24 favor of your getting a hearing, and I can't imagine that 25 anybody -- anyone at that board meeting would have opposed 9-26-05 42 1 it. 2 So, I just want you to understand, the 3 Friends are not playing favorites in this situation, and we 4 sure didn't play favorites at that meeting. He initiated 5 the -- his appearance there, just so you -- just so you 6 understand that, and what he said there is his 7 responsibility. He was speaking for himself, and that was 8 not a statement on behalf of the -- on behalf of the 9 Friends. Dr. Huddleston is a professor at Schreiner, and he 10 had to -- he had a class this morning. He said he was going 11 to make every effort to get a substitute -- or had classes 12 this morning, I should say. He said he was going to make 13 every effort to get somebody to fill in in one of those 14 classes and be here, so I'm -- I feel confident, 15 Commissioner, that you will see him before the day is out; 16 that he's not -- he's not avoiding this meeting or avoiding 17 you at all. There -- and you and he know each other well 18 enough to know that's the case, but I -- since he was 19 mentioned, I wanted to clarify that. 20 The Friends' board did adopt a statement 21 which you will get as soon as one of the officers -- 22 Dr. Huddleston, in fact -- is here to -- is here to sign it. 23 All the rest of the officers have signed it. It was adopted 24 unanimously by the board of the Friends. I'm going to take 25 the liberty of summarizing it, if I may, because much of it 9-26-05 43 1 includes information that I've supplied to you in the past. 2 There are a couple of things in it, however, that I think 3 should be -- should be emphasized. The membership of the 4 Friends, which typically is around 600 -- at the moment, I 5 think it's a little lower than that, because our -- our new 6 membership vice president cleaned out some people who hadn't 7 paid their dues, but it's definitely way up in the hundreds. 8 That, and the tremendous number of hours that our volunteers 9 put in down there sorting books, shelving them, getting 10 books ready for the -- for the book sales, that's no small 11 task, believe me. I think it's indicative of the time that 12 a lot of people in this community devote to that library 13 without getting paid a nickel. On the contrary, we raise 14 money for the library, but we are not in a position to go 15 beyond what we've been giving in order to help meet this 16 difference in figures that you -- that you're talking about 17 here. 18 We are totally dependent -- as taxpayers, as 19 members of the Friends, as patrons of the library, we are 20 totally dependent on the city and county governments to 21 provide the funding that is necessary. I -- I cannot speak 22 as to the reasons for the apparent failure to communicate 23 between the City and the County that have been referred to, 24 except to say this. I have met with -- either in person or 25 by phone, I've talked to every City and County official that 9-26-05 44 1 I could locate, and -- and an awful lot of former officials. 2 We have at least two former mayors in the audience today 3 that I've spoken with on this. A bunch of former City 4 Council members are here. A current City Council member is 5 here, as Commissioner Letz properly pointed out. Both the 6 current and former publishers of the Daily Times, heads of 7 the banks, business people, lawyers and so forth, and 8 without exception, they have said they want to see this 9 library fully funded and operate fully for the benefit of 10 the people who use it, which is an enormous number. I told 11 you before, it's -- the number of people who use this 12 library per year is three times the population of Kerr 13 County. That's a lot of folks, gentlemen. 14 As I say, I've talked to every civic leader 15 that I could find, and without exception, they have said we 16 want to see this library fully funded. And many of them 17 have said I will try to be of help on any kind of task 18 force, or -- or there was reference to a task force a few 19 minutes ago. I certainly support that. I support the idea 20 of a district. I think it was a terrible mistake for the -- 21 and I'm not going to get into the blame game. As I say, I 22 try to avoid being caught in the crossfire. I think it was 23 a terrible mistake to discontinue the joint City/County 24 budget workshops. I went to some of those when I was 25 president of the Friends. I found them to be very 9-26-05 45 1 productive, and I don't know why they were discontinued. I 2 think it was a mistake, and I think that they should be 3 reinstituted just as quickly as that can be -- as that can 4 be arranged. And, again, the Friends will do everything we 5 can to facilitate that process. The word "friends" is not 6 in our title by accident. We really want to facilitate 7 anything that will help the library. 8 Having said that, our position is -- and we 9 have most of our board members here, and I think some of 10 them signed up to speak as well. Our position is that it 11 will take time to accomplish the things that are being 12 talked about here, and you can't form a task force this 13 morning before you vote on this budget. You can't go 14 through the procedures necessary to form a library district 15 before this budget has to be approved and the city budget 16 has to be approved. What we are asking is, please come up 17 with the needed funding to keep the library open the number 18 of hours with the dedicated people that they have down there 19 still on the payroll. Restore the morale of those people. 20 Commissioner Baldwin spoke quite properly about the impact 21 of layoffs on good people and their families. Well, the 22 morale at the library, I can tell from you being down there 23 pretty frequently, is at rock bottom. They're afraid 24 they're not going to have a job. 25 And I know that's not your intention. I know 9-26-05 46 1 you don't want to shut down the library, but there is that 2 -- there is that concern. So, what we're asking you is, 3 please take the step -- take a leap of faith one more time 4 to go ahead and fund this budget. Fund the library budget 5 fully, and we will do everything we possibly can at every 6 level of government -- I left out somebody. I've gotten a 7 commitment from State Representative Hilderbran, who chairs 8 the committee in the House in Austin that includes the state 9 library and support for libraries at the local level. He 10 says he wants to do everything -- he will do everything he 11 can to help our library here. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Joe? 13 MR. BENHAM: We will work with you at every 14 level of government we can to do whatever is necessary to 15 solve these problems you've talked about, and onward and 16 upward. But we can't do it all today, and so we're asking 17 you go ahead and take a leap of faith one more time, fund 18 this budget, and then we will work with you as hard as we 19 can to keep this kind of impasse from coming up again. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Joe, I have two 21 questions. And I really want to fund it, and this is really 22 to everyone in the room. Is the Friends of the Library -- 23 are they asking the County to forget about the contract we 24 have with the City? Let the contract -- they don't have to 25 follow the contract, and for us to approve funding for a 9-26-05 47 1 budget that we have not seen? Is that what you're asking us 2 to do? To ignore a contract and fund a budget we haven't 3 seen? 4 MR. BENHAM: Commissioner, my understanding, 5 from what I'd heard before and from what I've heard today, 6 is that you have a budget; it's just not complete. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That is not a budget. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's a summary. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is what we have, 10 sir. 11 MR. BENHAM: I've got a copy of that thanks 12 to Commissioner Williams. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is not a budget. 14 MR. BENHAM: Okay. I am -- again, I'm trying 15 desperately to avoid getting caught in that crossfire 16 between you folks and the City. That's not what we're here 17 for. What we're asking is, come up with the -- come up with 18 the funding that the people who prepared the budget for the 19 library for this year have said is what they have to have to 20 run it. Do that one more time -- and it's a leap of faith, 21 I agree. And then let's see what we can do to resolve this. 22 I understand your concern. You certainly are entitled to 23 all the information you need. Nobody would -- I wouldn't 24 disagree with that. And I'll go back to what I've said; I 25 think it was a terrible mistake to discontinue those joint 9-26-05 48 1 workshops. But we can't convene one this morning before we 2 vote on the budget. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not the workshop. It's a 4 three-page contract. 5 MR. BENHAM: Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If the City follows the 7 contract, I will support the funding. It's that simple. 8 MR. BENHAM: I will certainly do anything I 9 can to facilitate that. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, 11 Mr. Benham. 12 MR. BENHAM: Sure. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: You had indicated that you 14 have had considerable contact with a lot of individuals that 15 have feelings about this issue, and that, virtually, they 16 are unanimous in believing that additional funding should be 17 provided to the library, if I understand you correctly; is 18 that correct? 19 MR. BENHAM: That is -- that is correct. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: What -- what portion of these 21 folks have expressed an interest in a library district, for 22 example? If that was discussed. 23 MR. BENHAM: Well, I can't give you figures 24 -- yes, it's been discussed, Judge. I can't give you 25 figures, but it was significant. I mean, it was -- I don't 9-26-05 49 1 think the question of a district came up with every single 2 person I talked to. In fact, it didn't; I can say that. 3 But, yeah, there was definite -- there was definite interest 4 in the formation of a library district among -- I would say 5 maybe a third of the people that I -- that I talked to. 6 There was certainly interest -- strong interest in improving 7 the process that we're talking about here. There was 8 certainly strong interest in seeing a permanent solution 9 to -- to this so it doesn't keep coming up year after year. 10 The -- if I had to sum up -- if I had to sum up the general 11 tone of those conversations, it was that we need a 12 first-rate library in this community, and let's do whatever 13 it takes to get there, and call -- call me when you know 14 what specifically I can do to be of help. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: As one of those possibilities 16 on the short term, did any of those folks indicate a 17 willingness to have an additional one-half to three-fourths 18 cent tax increase by the County to fund this shortfall? 19 MR. BENHAM: I didn't ask them that, and 20 nobody volunteered it. I didn't ask them that. But, again, 21 the -- and I want to say -- I didn't call all these people 22 and say, "Will you come down and berate the County 23 Commissioners?" What I did was say, "You're a knowledgeable 24 person about this community. What can we do to get this 25 thing off high center? You know this community better than 9-26-05 50 1 I do; you've lived here longer. You've been involved in 2 city and county government, directly in many cases, or 3 serving on committees and whatever. What can we do to get 4 this thing off high center?" And the thing that came up in 5 answer to that more often than not was, "We've got to 6 improve communications between the City and the County." 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I -- I agree with your 8 comments that you made here today, and also previously, that 9 one very, very helpful procedure would be the resumption of 10 those budget workshops that -- 11 MR. BENHAM: Mm-hmm. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: -- that were held in the past 13 with the City that considered not only the library, but a 14 number of other joint projects. And I was -- I was really 15 disappointed, not for this current year, but for the 16 immediate past budget year, that the City elected to not 17 desire to go forward with those. And I'm hopeful that your 18 suggestion that we resume those -- I agree with it 19 wholeheartedly, and I'm hopeful that that suggestion will be 20 followed and we can do this in the future so that hopefully 21 we don't have these same types of issues. 22 MR. BENHAM: Well, I'm at your disposition 23 personally, and I can assure you that the Friends, as an 24 organization, are at your disposition to do everything we 25 can to help that process along. 9-26-05 51 1 JUDGE TINLEY: I appreciate your willingness. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mr. Benham, I have two 3 things. One, to your knowledge, has Mr. Martinez thought 4 about, said about, talked about any kind of thoughts or 5 plans that -- that might be able to help in this budget 6 crunch issue? Just giving -- something that pops in my head 7 is, "Hey maybe we can close the library on Sunday, and leave 8 it open in the evenings during the week." Now, there's -- 9 there's a thought. Has Mr. Martinez said anything like 10 that? Has he -- has he come forward to you or your group, 11 that maybe there's something -- maybe there's something that 12 we can do that would help this problem? 13 MR. BENHAM: He hasn't -- he hasn't made any 14 specific suggestions to me, but I can't speak for everybody 15 on our board. He may have talked to them individually. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, what he's -- it 17 appears to me he sits back and says, "Come on, government, 18 just give me money, give me money, and I'll take care of 19 it." Now, the second thing -- I saw Mr. Huddleston come 20 into the back of the room. Do you need him to sign 21 something to get to us? 22 MR. BENHAM: Yes, sir. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You know, John, they 24 were attacking you tough up here, and I took care of you. 25 (Laughter.) I said nice things about you. 9-26-05 52 1 MR. BENHAM: John, we need your signature on 2 this so I can give to it them. Do you want him to sign it 3 now? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, absolutely. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: John, one good thing -- 6 or one thing later on our agenda, there's a resolution that 7 hopefully this Court will adopt that addresses the issues of 8 joint meetings with the City and our working together on a 9 number of items specifically, and including this library 10 specifically, and hopefully that resolution -- we're going 11 to send it to City Council, and I hope they follow the lead 12 of the County and commit to working together in a much 13 better relationship than we've seen in recent months. 14 MR. BENHAM: I'm glad you're -- if I can, 15 before I hand you this, I would like to emphasize one thing 16 that it says toward the end, 'cause I think it's worth 17 emphasizing. One of the few benefits of getting old is that 18 you can get away with repeating yourself some. The 19 statement is, great cities need great libraries. That is 20 certainly our position. It has been the position of every 21 -- I've probably talked to 100 people on this; government 22 leaders, former government leaders, civic leaders and civic 23 club officers and so forth, and without exception, they all 24 said we need a first-rate library in this community, and I 25 think I've heard much the same from you gentlemen. I think 9-26-05 53 1 the question is, how do we get there? And we'll do 2 everything we can to get you there and -- help you get 3 there, and help -- and help the City get there. I'm going 4 to stay as long as any of this stuff is being dealt with, so 5 if any other questions come up where I could be of any help 6 at all, I'm here. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Does any member of the Court 8 have any additional questions for Mr. Benham at this time? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you very much. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. 11 MR. BENHAM: Thank you for your time. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Albert Shults? 13 MR. SHULTS: Regretfully, at this stage, I 14 know all of you -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Give your name and -- 16 MR. SHULTS: I'm Albert E. Shults. I am a 17 member of the Library Board here in Kerrville, and I am 18 speaking after coordinating my conversation with the 19 chairman of the board, Mr. Randall Johnson, and Mr. John 20 Lipscomb here also from the board. You are almost at the 21 point of what I was going to request; you and I were at 22 $2,000 difference in the request. I was going to ask you to 23 consider giving us the opportunity to get this worked out, 24 and please add $100,000 to our budget of 300, to $400,000. 25 You're saying 398, and that would still leave us $18,000 9-26-05 54 1 short at this time from what the contract calls for, if it's 2 fifty-fifty. Which I'm sure the Library Board can -- can 3 work on it, though it will be difficult, and we could 4 probably make ends meet and struggle and try to do some 5 things to alleviate this situation. 6 And then this was brought up to -- on the 7 record, I -- I don't see anything -- and we were shown by 8 Commissioner Nicholson in July that the contract between the 9 City and the County had not been followed. The Library 10 Board asked Mr. Martinez why. Mr. Martinez told us, in 11 paraphrase, that all he could do was get with his boss, 12 which at that time was the Interim City Manager, and the 13 Interim City Manager said he'd take care of it, and that 14 he -- and that's as far as Mr. Martinez felt he could go. 15 Then the issue was brought up, and we had discussion about 16 the County Commissioners asking Mr. Martinez about the 17 budget, and Mr. Martinez informed us that it was his 18 obligation to go through the City, I guess the City Manager, 19 and that's where we are. And it's my -- I'm going to 20 apologize for me, not for the rest of the board, that I 21 should have raised -- excuse my language, but the truth is, 22 I should have raised hell right then and there with the City 23 Manager, because we were caught in the middle. We're still 24 caught in the middle. And all we want to do is have a good 25 library. 9-26-05 55 1 And, so, I would ask your benevolent heart 2 and mind to help us and give us the opportunity to -- give 3 us more time, as Mr. Benham has said, to get this worked out 4 properly. And -- but I assure you that we're going to have 5 a meeting here the 4th of October, Commissioner Letz; that 6 the Library Board will direct Mr. Martinez to physically get 7 together with the County Commissioners and sit down with you 8 with a budget, and if the City Manager and the City Council 9 takes exception to that, well, they might get another 10 library representative, because they'll have to fire me. 11 And I'm sure our chairman of our Library Board will agree 12 with that, because the library has to be working, and to 13 work, it takes your -- your communication and cooperation. 14 It takes the City Council. And we will do everything we 15 can. So, in summary -- I know you're busy -- I would 16 recommend and I would ask you to consider Commissioner 17 Williams' recommendation to change the budget to $398,000 to 18 give us an opportunity to work. Any questions? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just a comment, and it's 20 really somewhat in defense of Mr. Martinez. Several months 21 ago -- related to EMS, but it's the same type of issue -- I 22 made a contact to someone on the City staff; I had a very 23 general question about operations, and I received an e-mail 24 back from the City Manager prohibiting me to communicate 25 with any City staff from here -- from that time forward. I 9-26-05 56 1 forwarded that to the City Council. I never heard a 2 response, so by that, I say that the City Council supports 3 that position. I've no other, you know, feelings that I can 4 put -- or no other way I can interpret that. So, I think 5 your -- you know, the comment that I've heard about the -- 6 you know, the Library Manager is not communicating or you've 7 asked him to do it or whatever, the buck stops at City 8 Council and the mayor. They are the ones that have caused 9 this problem, not City Manager or the Library Manager. 10 MR. SHULTS: Mr. Letz, I know of no issue in 11 the budget or the administrative process of the library that 12 should be kept confidential. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree. 14 MR. SHULTS: Except for the personnel records 15 of the staff. So, we can probably get that corrected. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I hope so. I think 17 you're right; I think it will be corrected. 18 MR. SHULTS: Thank you, sir. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Any more questions? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I want to make a 21 comment. For years and years, when Vicky Mosty Roberts was 22 the Library Director, she would come over here to the 23 Commissioners Court, long before this time of the year, 24 early goings of the budget process, and -- and give an 25 annual report, and it was basically her budget request. And 9-26-05 57 1 it was sometimes an hour, hour and a half. She gave a full 2 report, and it was a thing of beauty, that you -- then we 3 had something to go on to start the process, and had a great 4 relationship. And I don't know what happened to that. 5 Well, I know that she left, but I don't know why that we 6 can't do that. 7 MR. SHULTS: Well, our chairman of our 8 Library Board is going to speak to the City Council at the 9 next meeting, and we will ask Chairman Randall Johnson to 10 speak to the City Council and let them know that the 11 director of the library has to communicate with both the 12 County Commissioners and the City Council. And, of course, 13 he communicates with us. Maybe this will alleviate the 14 situation, if the City Council will agree to it, and then he 15 can come over here and sit down with you about the budget 16 and answer your questions about the expenditures. Is that 17 agreeable? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's fine. But 19 I -- with all due respect, I put in a call -- I put in a 20 call to the chairman of the Library Advisory Board -- I 21 believe it was Friday. 22 MR. SHULTS: Mr. Johnson? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. I'm still 24 waiting on a return call. 25 MR. SHULTS: Okay. Now, he's -- I'm not 9-26-05 58 1 defending him. He's been out of town; he works out of town. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand. I 3 called his home. 4 MR. SHULTS: Okay. Did you talk to him? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, I'm still waiting 6 on him calling me back. 7 MR. SHULTS: All right, sir. Well, this is 8 Monday, Commissioner. (Laughter.) 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I realize. 10 MR. SHULTS: Okay. But I'm sure he will. 11 I'm sure he will. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I hope so. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Any more questions for Pastor 14 Shults? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you very much. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Pastor Shults, we appreciate 17 you being here today. Thank you, sir. Mr. Bruce Baker? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Two preachers in a row 19 here. 20 MR. SHULTS: All of you, Buster, are in 21 trouble. 22 MR. BAKER: I promise not to take 20 minutes. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: If you'll give your name and 24 address, please? 25 MR. BAKER: Okay. I'm Bruce Baker, 625 9-26-05 59 1 Scenic Valley Road, property owner since January 1976. I 2 think that's 29 years. Precinct 1, the premier precinct in 3 this county. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hear, hear. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What a commercial. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's true. 7 MR. BAKER: Clergymen Central Texas 8 Conference, United Methodist Church. I believe the issue 9 before us this morning is one of fundamental fairness. I 10 believe it is fundamentally unfair to request that the 11 Commissioners Court amend the budget, especially since they 12 have demonstrated physical responsibility in creating a 13 delicate balance between receipts and disbursements. They 14 should be complimented as good stewards. I believe it is 15 fundamentally unfair if -- if the Library Advisory Board has 16 not presided over a professional audit of current receipts 17 and disbursements, thereby justifying their request for 18 additional funds. If this has not been accomplished, then 19 it is fundamentally unfair to ask the present Library 20 Director to justify his own recommendations. Also, who 21 knows what will happen if the library downsizes its current 22 operations? Perhaps it's never been done before. Last, but 23 not least, if the present budget request as presented this 24 morning is absolutely unconditionally necessary, need I 25 remind you that perhaps $300,000 is really not an 9-26-05 60 1 unrealistic dream for a community of our size and stature? 2 By way of illustration, the Sunday after Katrina -- pardon 3 me -- struck the Gulf, a church in Houston -- a church in 4 Houston took a special offering. Preachers like to do that. 5 The pastor made a very strange request -- he must not have 6 been a Methodist -- that no one in the congregation that 7 morning write a check for over $1,000. He wanted everybody 8 to take part. The result of that, in less than five 9 minutes, that one little old church collected $1,500,000. I 10 thought to myself, man alive, it took former President Bush 11 and Clinton over 24 hours to raise one and a half million 12 dollars. If we, this morning, need to raise additional 13 funds, then, folks, let's just do it. Let's not request 14 that duly elected officials perform our work for us. Thank 15 you for letting me share with you. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. We have 17 another procedural issue that I'm going to dispose of right 18 quickly, and then we'll be back. At this point, I'm going 19 to recess our Commissioners Court meeting, and I will open a 20 public hearing on the proposed Fiscal Year 2005-2006 Kerr 21 County budget. 22 (The regular Commissioners Court meeting was recessed at 10:30 a.m., and a public hearing 23 was held in open court, as follows:) 24 P U B L I C H E A R I N G 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Now that I've opened that 9-26-05 61 1 public hearing, I will recess that public hearing, having 2 done so on a timely basis at 10:30. 3 (The public hearing was recessed at 10:30 a.m., and the regular Commissioners Court 4 meeting was reopened.) 5 - - - - - - - - - - 6 JUDGE TINLEY: And we will -- I will 7 reconvene the Commissioners Court meeting, and we are back 8 on Agenda Item Number 3; consider, discuss, and take action 9 on 2005-2006 budget change recommendations. And we were 10 taking public comment. I want to take a few more before we 11 give our court reporter a rest. At this time, Ms. Carolyn 12 Kahant. 13 MS. KAHANT: Thank you. My name is Carolyn 14 Kahant. I live at 300 Cedar Springs Road in Ingram. I 15 am -- I'm representing the group called Taxpayers Watch for 16 Kerr County, but I'm actually speaking -- I mean, I'm a 17 member of that group -- an active member of that group, but 18 I'm speaking for myself today, because I certainly can't be 19 sure that what I have to say everybody in the group would 20 agree with. I'm coming here to -- to speak for the 21 taxpayer, although I know that -- I don't -- instead of any 22 other special interest group, although I'm going to speak on 23 several -- touch on several things. So much has been said 24 already that I'm not going to go through everything I've got 25 prepared here, but I certainly support the library, and our 9-26-05 62 1 group supports the library, and I want to say that I fault 2 the City -- the Kerrville City Council first, having a 3 larger revenue base, and therefore able to fund a larger 4 share than the County. Obviously, they don't want to set a 5 precedent for doing that, or perhaps there are other 6 reasons. And you gentlemen seem to me previously to want a 7 fifty-fifty share basis also, but sometimes these issues do 8 get confused, and I'm trying to follow what's actually going 9 on. It's not always easy. 10 In any event, I believe we have some 11 misplaced priorities, yet it's very difficult to find any 12 solutions. I -- I want to present some ideas that I have 13 come up with, and some of them I have come up with and 14 rejected, and I'll say why. I want to -- certainly want to 15 say that I'm wary of simply creating another taxing district 16 for the library, as I think it will have the effect of 17 adding a new tax while other needs are created to use up the 18 money that previously went to the library from the general 19 budget. This is just the way government works. I don't 20 think the government should try to put any greater burden on 21 the taxpayer than we already have. Actually, I would like 22 to see a library district, but one that would have the 23 taxing authority of the U.G.R.A. -- that the U.G.R.A. now 24 enjoys, as the over $1 million the U.G.R.A. is allowed to 25 raise from Kerr County taxpayers every year doesn't seem to 9-26-05 63 1 translate into essential services. But the U.G.R.A. is 2 authorized by the State of Texas to be a taxing entity, 3 giving the County no choice in the matter, so there's no -- 4 there's no -- there's nothing I can do there. 5 I would also target the airport, but I -- I 6 find that its potential as a major revenue source in the 7 future makes that also untouchable. That brings me to 8 smaller expenditures that might be called charitable 9 contributions given to various nonprofit agencies, such as 10 something called the Trapper contract, which has already 11 been brought up; also Dietert Claim, which I know is 12 tremendously popular, K'Star, Crisis Council, CASA, Economic 13 Development, Water Development, Historical Commission and 14 others. These contributions add up to something close to 15 $100,000, I think, this year. Much less than last year, and 16 I have not seen final figures. I question whether the 17 County should be donating taxpayer money in any event, 18 whether these should not be funded solely by voluntary 19 citizen participation. But then I'm told that they've -- 20 they often get funding from other sources based on original 21 funding from the County, so it's difficult to deprive them 22 of that outside funding because the County won't give it to 23 them. 24 This leaves us nothing left but employees and 25 salaries and benefits of employees. What I'm going to say 9-26-05 64 1 is not going to endear me to the County employees, and I 2 want to say that I -- I've had dealings this past year with 3 the County employees and always been treated very -- in a 4 very friendly and helpful manner, and I don't -- I have no 5 criticism of any County employees. But I do, as I said, 6 want to speak for the taxpayer, and so I'm going to go ahead 7 and -- and say this. I -- I have not -- I know that 8 Commissioner Nicholson has recommended salary cuts, but I've 9 not talked with him about this. I did read about his 10 proposals in the West Kerr Current, but what prompts me to 11 speak about -- about this is that, in inquiring about the 12 county benefits package, I was taken aback to discover that 13 County employees receive 40 percent of their salary, or 14 approximately -- or wages in added benefits. I felt 15 40 percent seemed like a high figure. 16 This includes health insurance and retirement 17 as major benefits, plus numerous smaller items. In 18 addition, Sheriff's deputies each have their own car to take 19 home every night. Constables have new county cars with all 20 upkeep paid for. J.P.'s get all travel expenses paid, as -- 21 as they should. All employees have their own particular 22 seminars they are allowed to attend every year, all expenses 23 paid. I am not begrudging this, but I am saying -- what I 24 want to say is that this adds up to a pretty good deal for 25 work that is not, you know, exceedingly difficult. Working 9-26-05 65 1 conditions are pleasant, and I don't see any -- any 2 suffering going on or, you know, any -- any sacrifice going 3 on in this area. I figured up the total for several elected 4 officials. The positions of County and District Clerk, 5 Treasurer, and Tax Assessor are all at the same level, 6 44,816 this year -- this past year, so I've used that. And 7 that's up from 40,243 in 2003-'04, a $4,600 increase from 8 the previous year to this past year. So, 40 percent of 9 44,816 is 17,926, adding up to a total package of 62,742. 10 With this year's 3 and a half percent cost-of-living 11 increase, which is 1,516, the total package comes to 64,938, 12 or in other words, close enough to say 65,000 for the 13 upcoming year. This is not a pittance, and contrasts 14 sharply with what many -- many taxpayers are able to claim. 15 For you Commissioners, your total package 16 next year, with the cost of living increase, will come to 17 58,288. Not bad for a part-time job. In my opinion -- 18 well, first I'll say bad decisions have unpleasant 19 consequences. In my opinion, Kerr County is suffering from 20 a number of bad decisions made by this and previous courts. 21 In a just world, those who make mistakes are the ones who 22 suffer the consequences. In politics and government, this 23 is rarely the case. In the work that I currently do, there 24 has not been an increase in about four years. I'm sure many 25 taxpayers are in a similar situation, yet we're given 9-26-05 66 1 increased property appraisals, a tax rate increase, plus 2 receiving reduced services in order to give our public 3 servants, supposedly, increases so they won't have to 4 suffer. I hate to call for any working person to receive 5 less, and I really mean that, but it seems to me that this 6 is an obvious place to cut fat, and beginning with 7 yourselves. Although, in closing, I will say that I thought 8 -- I didn't know about some of these proposals, of course, 9 when I prepared this, and I think that Commissioner Williams 10 has come up with some pretty good areas to cut from, and 11 also Commissioner Nicholson. And I just want to say that it 12 just goes to show that there's always places to cut, you 13 know, if the need is great enough, and if enough people show 14 up. So, thank you very much. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Ms. Kahant. Mary 16 Johnston Nitzberg? 17 MS. NITZBERG: Could I defer to my husband, 18 please? Philip Nitzberg. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 20 MS. NITZBERG: Okay, thank you. 21 MR. NITZBERG: I got sucked into this. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: It appears that way to me. 23 MS. NITZBERG: He's much better than I am at 24 talking. 25 MR. NITZBERG: Philip, initial A, Nitzberg, 9-26-05 67 1 N-i-t-z-b-e-r-g, 149 Oak Ridge Road South. Thank you, 2 gentlemen, for having me. And I'm a little P.O.'d at you. 3 (Laughter.) I'd like to start by saying I'm a fiscal -- 4 very fiscal conservative. I'm cheap. I -- I don't believe 5 in spending money when you don't have to spend it, and when 6 I spend money, I want -- I want something for that money. I 7 just don't throw it away. You're not interested in a bunch 8 of verbosity. You've got a problem; you want to solve it. 9 The problem, number one, we have to have a library. We are 10 literate people. We're not ignoramuses. We're not all 11 rednecks. We need a library. We've got a perfectly good 12 library. There is nothing wrong with it. It's already 13 built. The problem is money; that's the problem. 14 Now, Commissioner Letz, you hit it right on 15 the head. There's a -- there's a three-page contract. It's 16 a legal contract. You're a judge. Why don't we just sue 17 them, fast-track it? Okay? (Laughter.) At least threaten 18 them. At least threaten to sue them. If worse comes to 19 worst, give them what they want, and sue them for the money 20 later. Buster, I really gave you credit for finding the 21 padding on that thing -- on that statement, because it's -- 22 obviously, someone was very inept when they wrote that 23 thing. They -- they should have had a -- I don't know, an 24 auditor or somebody come in and do it, do it the right way. 25 And that's really all I have to say, because I wasn't 9-26-05 68 1 prepared to come up here, quite frankly. Thank you, 2 gentlemen. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Nitzberg. I 4 think Commissioner Letz has, in fact, challenged them to 5 live up to the contract. I believe I heard him do that 6 several times. 7 MR. NITZBERG: Yeah. Well, let's -- let's 8 not cut our throat. Let's -- we have to have a library. 9 We're not -- we're not a bunch of rednecks here; we're 10 literate people. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: I understand your comment, 12 sir. 13 MR. NITZBERG: Okay. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I appreciate it. 15 MR. NITZBERG: And it -- oh, one other thing. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're not all 17 rednecks. We're not all of us rednecks, but there are some. 18 MR. NITZBERG: Well, hey, if you're a 19 redneck, buddy, that's your problem. That's not mine. 20 (Laughter.) That's your problem. But one other thing, that 21 the County -- confuses me about something that you said, 22 that 14 County employees have been laid off because of lack 23 of funding or shortages. We moved here in '89. Our 24 property valuation has gone up double, which means our taxes 25 have gone up -- I don't know, maybe the same; maybe they've 9-26-05 69 1 been doubled, or maybe a percentage. If that library was 2 functioning just fine back in '89 with -- with our -- our 3 small valuation, how come with our big one, when we're 4 paying more taxes, how come we've got a problem? Where's 5 the money going? Is there -- do we have bad priorities? Or 6 maybe -- maybe we're -- maybe we're doing something wrong, 7 and it's something to think about. Maybe giving money to a 8 private organization like the shooting range or building a 9 boardwalk or things like that -- does it -- does it help 10 these people? Sure, it's great to bring tourists in, but 11 what about -- what about the people that live here? What 12 about us? I mean, we're the ones that live here. So, 13 anyways, that's -- ta-ta for now. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. At this 15 point, we will be in recess until 11:00, and then we'll be 16 -- then we'll be back on that same agenda item. 17 (Recess taken from 10:44 a.m. to 11:00 a.m.) 18 - - - - - - - - - - 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to 20 order, if we might. We were in a short recess to convene at 21 11:00. It's a couple of minutes past that now, so we're 22 back in session, and we are resuming our consideration of 23 Item 3 on the agenda; consider, discuss, and take action on 24 the 2005-2006 budget change recommendations. We were 25 hearing comments from members of the public, and I will 9-26-05 70 1 resume that now. John David Lipscomb. 2 MR. LIPSCOMB: Thank you. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: If you'll give your name and 4 address, please. 5 MS. LIPSCOMB: My name is John David 6 Lipscomb. I reside at 909 Lake Drive, Kerrville. While I 7 am a member of the Library Advisory Board, I'm really here 8 speaking on behalf of -- as just a taxpayer. I do encourage 9 you to do whatever it takes to meet funding so that the 10 library can be operational. I think it's very important. 11 Perhaps you're aware a study was done recently, and 300 12 people were surveyed via telephone from the North Texas 13 Institution, and they found that there was a lot of support 14 for the library. It's a facility that's used and valued, 15 and I hope that will continue. As a member of the Library 16 Advisory Board, I certainly will offer my capabilities to 17 help negotiate further this -- this seemingly political 18 football that's going on between City and County. I would 19 like, as I'm sure a lot of people would like, to see that 20 resolved. And, so, if I can be of any help as part of the 21 Advisory Board, certainly be glad to. So, I'll make this 22 short. Again, I please encourage you to support the 23 library, whatever that number turns out to be. Thank you 24 very much. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 9-26-05 71 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Any questions for 2 Mr. Lipscomb? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. We appreciate 5 your comments. Ron Peterson? Is Mr. Peterson -- 6 (No response.) 7 (Discussion off the record.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Shirley Rackley had indicated 9 to me during the break that -- that her sentiments had been 10 expressed by another speaker. Mr. Miller, John -- J.B. 11 Miller. 12 MR. MILLER: Your Honor and members of the 13 Commission, I'm John Miller, 1300 Barbara Ann here in 14 Kerrville. I've had library cards at various libraries 15 where I have lived since I was 10 years old. Might I ask at 16 the beginning, how many of you County Commissioners have 17 library cards at the Butt-Holdsworth Memorial Library? Two? 18 I am appalled at the friction that exists between the County 19 and the City. I was not aware of this until I came here 20 this morning. I greatly support Mr. Williams' proposal to 21 create a library district. I think this would diminish this 22 -- this problem. Maybe it would just move it to another 23 level, but it sounds to me like that's a very good idea. 24 Referring to Mr. Baldwin's comment about closing the library 25 on Sunday, if we go back -- you made some reference to 9-26-05 72 1 Victoria Mosty Roberts. If we go back even further to when 2 Mrs. Yeagley was the librarian or Library Director, the -- 3 then we had a compromise on that, which might save some 4 money. Keep it open on Sunday and in the evenings, but not 5 for circulation. 6 That means that the people who are at the 7 circulation desk would not have to be there. Those services 8 of the library would not exist. Just like you go to the 9 drive-in windows of the bank on Saturday, and your work is 10 processed as if it did not take place until the following 11 Monday. If you check -- you can't check out a book. If you 12 return a book, it would, according to the computation, be 13 treated as if it was returned the next business day of the 14 library. That's one way to save some money. Since we're 15 all librarians -- since we're all law-abiding citizens, 16 maybe we could say that we could save a lot of money by 17 closing the jail. We know that would be a ridiculous idea. 18 So, therefore, what I'm saying is, we need to give 19 appreciation to what -- those of us who don't necessarily 20 make use of the library, but we know that it is an important 21 facility of the county. 22 I've been told that some people who use the 23 library computers only use it to play computer games. I 24 don't think that's a necessary function. I think that if 25 they can eliminate the capability of computers to go into 9-26-05 73 1 porno sites, probably there's a way that they could block it 2 from computer games as well, and that people would only use 3 the computers for proper research. I dare say that that 4 would eliminate a great deal of pressure on the computers, 5 and would free them up for use for desirable purposes. It 6 seems to me that, as citizens of this community, the library 7 deserves to be put on the same level of significance as 8 other community facilities for our amenity, or the amenities 9 that we enjoy as residents here, and I've been here for 32 10 years. That's all I have. Thank you. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. We appreciate 12 it. Ed Nemec? 13 MS. NEMEC: He had to leave. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I'll come back to one that may 15 have come in late from the recess. Ron Peterson? Is he 16 available? 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let me try and get us 19 back on track, if we might. Is there any other member of 20 the audience who wishes to be heard on budget change 21 recommendations that possibly was not aware that it was 22 helpful to have a participation form, or who may have signed 23 up for one and I didn't get it? Let me start here over on 24 this side, if I might. 25 MS. TROLINGER: I laid one there; it's on the 9-26-05 74 1 other -- other way. Under your elbow. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Judith Trolinger. I'm 3 sorry. Come forward, please, ma'am. 4 MS. TROLINGER: My name is Judith A. 5 Trolinger. I live at 126 Pleasure Hill Road, Ingram, Texas. 6 Now, I don't live in Ingram; I live in the county, so we're 7 between Ingram and Hunt. And I'm not going to get into the 8 emotional issue of the love of a library, because I'd talk 9 your ear off, so I won't do that. But I'm going to throw 10 your words back at you when you mentioned the City Council's 11 attitude or their arrogance, and I'd like to make it for the 12 record, because it's not -- it's not said very often. And 13 the reason that we come up here and yell at you people, and 14 why I'm kind of defending your position here, is because we 15 have a whole county full of people that rely on Kerrville 16 for everything, and we cannot vote. The county cannot vote 17 on what the city does, and the Council knows that. So, what 18 the hey. But we need to save our library. It's too 19 important to this community. Been a part of it since the 20 library was built, and I'm with the Kerrville Genealogical 21 Society. With the help of -- of Victoria Mosty Roberts, now 22 Wilson, she worked her tail off to see that we got a -- the 23 Kerr Regional History Center, and that is totally housed by 24 the Kerrville Genealogical Society. We're all volunteers. 25 We love this place. We love the library, and we pay to 9-26-05 75 1 volunteer, and so this library is really vital to our 2 community. But in repeating, and I'll -- I'm done, county 3 residents can't vote on city issues, and that is so 4 frustrating, so we come yell at you guys. Thank you. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. Is there 6 anyone else on this side of the room that wishes to be heard 7 with respect to the budget change recommendations for the 8 coming budget year? Anyone here? If so, please indicate by 9 raising your hand so that we won't miss you. Seeing no one, 10 I'm going to come over to this side of the room. Is there 11 anyone here -- yes, sir -- yes, ma'am. Please come forward, 12 if you might. 13 AUDIENCE: I just wanted to say that I see 14 Mr. Martinez here, if you all had any questions for him. 15 He's taken some heat from y'all, so I think he should have a 16 chance to respond. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We'd love to have him. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. Anyone else 20 over here on this side of the room that wishes to be heard 21 with respect to the agenda item relative to '05-'06 budget 22 change recommendation? Ms. Lipscomb? Please come forward. 23 MS. LIPSCOMB: I really just had more of a 24 question related to the library district, so that I would 25 understand how that goes. Because, living in the city, we 9-26-05 76 1 -- we're actually city and county residents, and we pay both 2 city and county taxes. So, in essence, anything that's 3 jointly funded by the city and the county, I feel like city 4 residents pay for twice. Which I don't have a problem with, 5 and I live in the city because I want those additional city 6 services. With a library district, I just wanted to know 7 how that would work. Would we just pay the library tax 8 once, or would we still be paying it twice, as we do -- as 9 the city and county residents? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Let me respond to that, 11 Judge. 12 MS. LIPSCOMB: Thank you, and I'll sit down. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, stay if you like. 14 MS. LIPSCOMB: Oh. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Chapter 326 of the 16 Local Government Code sets up all the rules and regulations 17 and so forth with respect to the creation of a library 18 district. Essentially, in response to your question, and 19 essentially in response to a previous speaker's comment, if 20 I read this correctly, libraries are funded by sales and use 21 tax, so a portion of the sales and the use tax, which is 22 already in place, which is over and above the 6 percent that 23 the state gets, can be diverted to a library district. That 24 spreads it uniformly across the entire tax base. It is not 25 an additional ad valorem tax, as the previous speaker 9-26-05 77 1 mentioned about a library district versus what U.G.R.A. or 2 any other taxing district does. U.G.R.A. depends on ad 3 valorem taxes. Headwaters depends on ad valorem taxes. The 4 County depends on ad valorem taxes, as does the City. This 5 spreads the cost or the funding across the base, and it 6 comes from sales and use tax. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I might add just one 8 other comment. And you are totally correct when you say the 9 city residents are also residents of the county; they pay 10 taxes to both the city and the county. And I also would add 11 that county residents do almost all their shopping in 12 Kerrville, and thereby pay sales tax revenue to the city of 13 Kerrville at a ratio of about three-to-one, four-to-one of 14 what the county gets, so it works both ways. County 15 residents subsidize the budget that way. And, yes, 16 residents of the city pay taxes to both entities. It's just 17 the way the state is set up. And I'm not here to say if 18 it's good or bad; I'm just saying that's the way it is. 19 MS. LIPSCOMB: Thank you. Like I say, I was 20 asking for information. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Ms. Lipscomb. 23 Pursuant to an indication from a member of the audience -- 24 Mr. Martinez? Antonio Martinez, Library Director, do you 25 have any comments you'd like to make, sir? 9-26-05 78 1 MR. MARTINEZ: Well, first of all, in regards 2 to library district, I think what Commissioner Williams was 3 referring to was the older legislation. There is more 4 recent legislation that allows either ad valorem or sales or 5 a combination of the two for a library district. There are 6 problems with that concept. Even if we put it in place 7 today, it would probably be two years before we had it in 8 place, but certainly it's something worth pursuing. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Any member of the Court have 10 any questions? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do. Mr. Martinez, 12 prior to you coming in the room, I beat on you pretty hard, 13 and so I will do it to your face. 14 MR. MARTINEZ: All right. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: One of the things that 16 the County's done this year is we've cut either 12 or 14 17 employees. We've disrupted families and -- and asked our -- 18 some of our friends to leave. And it appears to me that 19 once we do those kinds of things -- and those things are 20 difficult to do, as you well know -- then what we want to do 21 is get rid of people around here so we can send money over 22 to the library. The -- my question is, and -- that I asked 23 earlier, has Mr. Martinez come up with any kind of -- any 24 kind of plan, any kind of thought -- as an example, gosh, 25 maybe we could close the thing on Sunday to help this -- 9-26-05 79 1 help this problem. And, of course, we have not heard 2 anything from you, or any plan. John -- J.B. Miller just 3 stood up and suggested that we could leave the thing open, 4 but maybe stop the circulation functions. Now, I don't know 5 -- I don't know what that does or, you know, if it helps in 6 any way financially, but, my god, somebody has said 7 something, and that's a hell of a lot more than what you 8 have said. See -- 9 MR. MARTINEZ: May I speak? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Excuse me? 11 MR. MARTINEZ: May I speak? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. So, what we 13 have done is we have cut every corner that we can cut over 14 here, and we haven't even seen your face to help us 15 understand what you're trying to do. 16 MR. MARTINEZ: First of all, my instructions 17 come from the City Manager, and my instructions are to 18 present what I present to the Library Advisory Board. Your 19 representative, Commissioner Nicholson, sits on the Library 20 Advisory Board. Everything I've presented has been shared 21 with him. And we did present a reduced budget, 14 percent 22 below last year's. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: A question, then. And I 24 don't know if it's really directed to you, or I also see the 25 City Manager present. The budget summary that was provided 9-26-05 80 1 to the County that I have seen is totally inadequate. Will 2 you or the City Manager, or preferably both, come to this 3 Commissioners Court and present a full budget to this Court 4 and answer questions we have? 5 MR. MARTINEZ: I'll let Don Davis answer 6 that, but I'll respond to one part of it. In May and in 7 June, we presented a line-item detailed budget to 8 Commissioner Nicholson. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The final budget that was 10 presented to the City? 11 MR. MARTINEZ: The proposed budget. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Proposed budget. Has a 13 final budget ever been presented to Mr. Nicholson? 14 MR. MARTINEZ: I believe the city budget 15 office sent it over. I can't answer that. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Have you ever received a 18 final copy? 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I got the same thing 20 you did. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It must be a 23 different budget than Mr. Martinez is talking about. He's 24 talking about a 14 or 15 percent decrease. This one shows 25 9.8 percent. So -- 9-26-05 81 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, the backup we 2 received also had budget information related to 2003/2004, 3 so -- 4 MR. MARTINEZ: Well, first of all, be sure 5 you're looking at the operating expense, 'cause that's 6 what's shared between city and county, not the total amount. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, the capital items 8 are listed in here. They're not supposed to be shared in 9 here. 10 MR. MARTINEZ: Right. There are no capital 11 items -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's $104,000 in the 13 summary we were sent. So, we're not -- 14 MR. MARTINEZ: The operating is what is split 15 between the city and county. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So we are not responsible 17 for the 104,000 in capital expenditures that was sent over 18 to the city -- from the city to the county. 19 MR. MARTINEZ: The 832,000 figure is the 20 figure that is split between the city and county. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That includes $104,000 of 22 capital expenditures that, according to the summary, you 23 sent over. 24 MR. MARTINEZ: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Part of the 9-26-05 82 1 problem -- I'm sorry. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So you're telling me -- 3 what I'm hearing is that we are not responsible for capital 4 expenditures, and I agree with that. 5 MR. MARTINEZ: I believe that would be 6 subject to whatever contract you are operating under, and 7 currently you have a contract that has not been completely 8 negotiated. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have a contract. The 10 City has not lived up to it. 11 MR. MARTINEZ: I can't respond to that. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Mr. Martinez, you 13 seem to be implying that I may have had sufficient 14 information to form an opinion about the -- about the 15 contract. Do you recall getting a letter from me asking you 16 to meet with me to go over the library's finances? 17 MR. MARTINEZ: That's right. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And you didn't 19 respond to that letter. 20 MR. MARTINEZ: That letter was responded to 21 out of the City Manager's office. Again, my instructions 22 are policy level. That is out of the City Manager's office, 23 and not my domain. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: See, I think that's 25 part of the problem. We're expected to come up with 9-26-05 83 1 50 percent of the funding, but nobody wants to talk and 2 nobody wants to explain why your administrative costs are 3 greater than your patron services. Nobody wants to tell us 4 what patron service consists of. Nobody wants to explain 5 what circulation services are all about. We're left to 6 guess. 7 MR. MARTINEZ: Again, a detailed line item 8 with narratives was presented in May and June. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Every department head 10 and elected official in Kerr County reports to this 11 Commissioners Court and stands, just like you are, in front 12 of us detailing every single line item expenditure in their 13 budget, and takes questions. I don't know about city 14 policy, but what I know is if you expect 50 percent of a 15 $900,000 budget, somebody ought to come and explain it to 16 us, period. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just provide it to us, 18 would be nice. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Any more questions for 20 Mr. Martinez? Thank you, sir. Mr. Davis? 21 MS. DAVIS: I don't think it's fair for the 22 Court to be picking on Mr. Martinez for decisions perhaps 23 that I made, and/or my predecessor. We have tried to work 24 within the guidelines of the contract. We've been working 25 with Mr. Nicholson on renegotiating the contract. We have 9-26-05 84 1 been told on several occasions that this Court is only 2 funding $300,000 toward the operation of that library. 3 Certainly, that is a policy decision that rests with you 4 gentlemen. We -- we don't take fault to that at all. What 5 I do object to, quite frankly, is the criticism that you 6 guys are laying on Mr. Martinez specifically, and the City 7 generally. We have tried to provide you information since 8 back in May. We've tried to make ourselves available. We 9 gave you, as late as October the 15th, the latest revisions 10 of the -- of the budget. Mr. Brooks was here at your last 11 meeting Monday to answer questions concerning the library 12 budget. None were asked. Ms. Bailey was here to discuss 13 the negotiated proposed contracts with you at last week's 14 meeting. I do know that Mr. Brooks spent an hour or so with 15 Mr. Williams last Friday going over the budget -- the 16 library budget. I don't know that there's anything more 17 that we can do to try to provide you guys with the 18 information that you want. 19 Now, it's difficult for us to anticipate what 20 the four or five of you need. I only trust that when you 21 send a delegate over to sit down with us, that he, in fact, 22 is representing the Court and comes back and reports to the 23 Court whatever it is that we're discussing. It seems like 24 to me, in my brief tenure here, that what happens is we sit 25 down and we discuss, and then come back and y'all criticize 9-26-05 85 1 the City for not being responsive. And -- and the same 2 thing has happened on a couple of these other contracts. 3 So, I'm here to say today that -- that we're following the 4 guidelines that -- that have been set forth from -- by us 5 under our understanding of the terms of the contract, and if 6 that's not in keeping with what y'all want, I apologize to 7 you. But I would ask you this; be mad at me, not 8 Mr. Martinez or any of the other City employees that might 9 be responsible for doing their administrative jobs. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mr. Davis, I have a 11 question. The contract -- Paragraph 5 says, "On or before 12 April 15th of each year, Library Director will meet with the 13 designee of this Court." Did that take place this year? 14 MS. DAVIS: No. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. It also says in 16 Paragraph 6 -- 17 MR. DAVIS: Let me interrupt -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, you will not 19 interrupt me. "The Commissioners Court will receive a 20 budget by July 1st." Did that happen this year? 21 MS. DAVIS: I believe -- I believe it did. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not an accurate budget. 23 We received -- 24 MR. DAVIS: A work copy. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, the budget. Did we 9-26-05 86 1 receive the budget before July 1st? 2 MS. DAVIS: You received exactly what the 3 City Council received. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't care what the 5 City Council received. Did we receive the budget? 6 MR. DAVIS: You got a copy of the budget. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, we did not. 8 MR. DAVIS: You did. You got a copy of -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Did not. 10 MR. DAVIS: -- the proposed budget back in -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You have not -- you -- 12 and your predecessor did not follow the contract, period. 13 There's two provisions right here. You did not follow it. 14 MR. DAVIS: I cannot speak to my 15 predecessor's -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. I'm just saying -- 17 you said you followed the contract. I'm saying that you 18 agreed that you didn't do Paragraph 5. 19 MR. DAVIS: That's exactly right. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In fairness to 21 Mr. Davis, he can't speak for his predecessor. We shouldn't 22 ask him to do so. But the reality of the situation is, 23 that's where the problem began, when a letter was written 24 and sent over here saying we're not going to have a joint 25 meeting; we're not going to provide you with the information 9-26-05 87 1 because you don't read it, and if you did read it, you don't 2 understand it. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know that you 4 need to respond. 5 MR. DAVIS: Well, thank you, because I can't. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You don't have to 7 respond. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: That was a full year before -- 9 before you came on board, Mr. Davis. 10 MS. DAVIS: Well, we -- please be advised 11 that -- that we're trying to make this thing work, and we 12 understand there are some problems. And I felt real good 13 about the efforts that Mr. Nicholson has provided in trying 14 to resolve this thing in a -- in a longer term basis. And, 15 gentlemen, I certainly understand and appreciate the 16 financial problems that y'all have, and I think that those 17 public policies that you're -- you're forced to make are 18 tough, and I understand that and I appreciate it. And I 19 don't -- you know, and if y'all elect not to participate in 20 the library, that's clearly y'all's decision. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mr. Davis, we've said 22 earlier -- two of the Commissioners, and I believe with 23 probably the support of the Court -- that we'll fund the 24 library. We just want the City to live up to the contract. 25 MS. DAVIS: Well, we're trying. 9-26-05 88 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And to present a budget. 2 MS. DAVIS: Right. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's all I've asked. 4 All I've asked is that the City live up to the contract and 5 provide meaningful dialogue so we can understand the 6 proposed budget. That's all we've asked. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Don, the way I 8 understand the contract is, on such-and-such a date, the 9 Library Director shall get with somebody. That did not 10 happen, so I -- yeah, I'm mad at him. I'm not mad at you. 11 I am mad at -- no, wait. Wait, let me finish. I am mad at 12 him. Now, if you -- if you want to take that up with him, 13 that's your -- that's your deal. That's -- I'm just going 14 by the contract, that the man's supposed to be in here 15 making a presentation like his predecessor did for years and 16 years, and that's all I'm asking to do. The contract says 17 that he's going to be here. If he's not here, yeah -- yeah, 18 I'm ticked off at him, and I'm going to get on him. That's 19 it. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge? I think we've 21 kicked this dog about enough for one day. And I have some 22 budget amendments I'd like -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't think he's referring 24 to you, Mr. Davis. (Laughter.) 25 MR. DAVIS: That's all right. 9-26-05 89 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, I wasn't talking 2 to you, Mr. Davis. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Before Mr. Davis sits down, do 4 we have any more questions for Mr. Davis? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I guess not. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Dadgumit. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd like to know how 9 we can address these various budget amendments that I've 10 proposed, which would -- after one correction that the 11 County Auditor brought to my attention, which would increase 12 the County's funding to the library by $60,000. And if the 13 Court wishes to do more, there's a way to do that, but I 14 want to address the budget amendments. We're under the 15 budget; I want to address the budget amendments. How do you 16 suggest I do that, Judge? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I've got a solution. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let me have it. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion that 20 we commit to making additional expenditures from the county 21 budget to fully fund the library after the City Council or 22 City staff has presented a budget, answered our questions, 23 and made any modifications that we agree to. And that will 24 be done, unfortunately, after the fiscal year through a 25 budget amendment process. That's my motion. 9-26-05 90 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well -- 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- I'm not ready to 4 second that quite yet, 'cause I still have some questions 5 about the first motion that landed here this morning on 6 Mr. Williams' issue. I have two questions here -- probably 7 just one. I just need to know what -- from the clerk, 8 probably. What is records archival? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the one, 10 Commissioner, that the Auditor advised me we have to take 11 out. That's a sequestered fund, and that has to be removed 12 from my -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. How important 14 is the Trapper contract? I'll open up a whole new -- whole 15 new argument here. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I'm not 17 proposing to eliminate it; I'm only proposing to eliminate 18 the increase that was asked for, so we would be keeping the 19 Trapper contract in place at the same level of funding as 20 last year. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I -- the reason I would 22 prefer to go with the approach I took, I think there are 23 other areas. I don't disagree with the Trapper contract or 24 not disagree with the Trapper contract; it's one that I 25 thought we should put in. If I have my choice between that 9-26-05 91 1 and some other things that I have in the budget, I would 2 rather make some changes. I also would like to hear from 3 the County Attorney related to some other possibility of 4 funding that may be used from designated funds, being the 5 Law Library fund. And I think there -- you know, I think at 6 this point we just need a commitment to fund the library, 7 and I think that that can be done through a budget amendment 8 process. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Was your motion, 10 though -- did it say that we're going to fund it -- you 11 didn't come up with a figure? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Half of whatever they 14 want? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It will be what we agree 16 on once they present a budget and we discuss it with them. 17 There may be some modifications to it; I don't know. I 18 would commit to fund half of the operational budget when 19 that final number is determined. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Commissioner? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If that's your -- if 22 that's what your proposal is -- your motion is, that the 23 County would fund half of the operations budget, correct? 24 With, what, the total number being defined through 25 discussions with the City? 9-26-05 92 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If that's what your 3 proposal is, Commissioner, I will second that. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We have a motion and a 5 second. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wow. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Any question or discussion? 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I have a question 9 and discussion. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We're focusing on a 12 fairly narrow issue of the budget; that's library. What I'm 13 seeing is that the last budget I had in front of me, 14 September 16th, we were sucking $500,000 out of the 15 operating fund balance, and we need to deal with that 16 $500,000 deficit. And now what I see is that we have some 17 opportunities to reduce costs. They're on the table, and 18 we're not dealing with them, but we're considering 19 increasing that deficit by -- by providing more funding to 20 the library. Let me say that I am not opposed to providing 21 more funding to the library. I just want to know where it's 22 coming from, and I want to know whether or not we're going 23 to deal with the $500,000 fund deficit. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If I can answer that 25 question, my intent is, I would not mind adding it to the 9-26-05 93 1 motion that those -- the funds to fund the library -- 2 additional funding for the library will not come from 3 reserves. We will cut somewhere or find a designated fund 4 possibly to use if that is a possibility. Going into 5 reserves is not an option, in my mind. It may be cutting 6 the Trapper contract and all the other things on 7 Commissioner Williams' list and other things, but I agree, 8 reserves is not -- 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: With that caveat, I 10 can -- I can support your motion. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: So your motion would include 12 that the funding -- additional funding required would not 13 come from reserves? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll accept that. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But I would like to 18 say that Commissioner Nicholson's plan here should be put in 19 the off-season study. I mean, I don't think it needs to be 20 dropped. We need to keep looking at it as we go along. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree with that, 22 too. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm a little bit 24 unclear, Commissioner Letz, on the stipulations in your 25 motion of what you expect the City to do, or what you're 9-26-05 94 1 requesting the City to do. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just to meet with us. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What you're requiring 4 of the City to do. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To meet -- to have their 6 designee meet with us, go over the library budget, and if we 7 can agree, make some adjustments. Maybe not. Maybe -- 8 there may not be any adjustments to be made, but I want them 9 to go over it with us so I understand it, at least. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And then, if there's 12 something that I think is, you know, disagreed -- that I 13 disagree with, and the City agrees with that, you know, 14 maybe it will be changed. Conceivably could be increased, 15 though I doubt it. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're talking about 17 -- you're talking about one or two people coming before the 18 Commissioners Court and visiting? Or are we going to buy 19 some pigeons and send e-mails and back and forth or what? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's up to the City. 21 And the funding level, under my motion, stays where it is 22 right now at $300,000 until the City comes over to the -- 23 and presents a budget that we understand and has input from 24 this Court, and only at that point will there be a budget 25 amendment after -- and there will be October 1st, though I 9-26-05 95 1 think someone mentioned -- I think Joe Benham said a "leap 2 of faith" needs to be taken. Well, this is a leap of faith 3 from the City. They're going to have to decide what to do 4 with staff and operations at the library until they come 5 over here and work with us. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okey-dokey. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or 8 comments on the motion that's before us now? All in favor 9 of that motion, signify by raising your right hand. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge? Before you 15 move on, can I ask the Court's indulgence to move to 1.16? 16 There are a number of folks in the audience from the Center 17 Point area who have come specifically to listen to, talk 18 about and in support of a resolution that I put on the 19 agenda about the air quality permit application of 20 Wheatcraft, Incorporated. All these good folks got a real 21 enlightenment about the library, and they'd like to help us 22 understand a little bit more of their concerns about the 23 rock-crushing, and it's Item 1 -- that's on Item 1.16. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Any objection to that? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir. 9-26-05 96 1 JUDGE TINLEY: We're going to have to come 2 back to 3 anyway, I think, just to make sure we've got those 3 items cleaned up, but at this time we'll move to Item 16, 4 and hopefully we can take care of that rather quickly. That 5 agenda item is to consider, discuss, and take appropriate 6 action to approve a Resolution of Opposition to the 7 application for an air quality permit filed with T.C.E.Q. by 8 Wheatcraft, Incorporated for a rock-crushing operation in 9 Center Point, Texas. Commissioner Williams? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Gentlemen, Judge, 11 last Tuesday I conducted a town hall meeting in Center Point 12 for the purpose of -- of bringing together the community 13 about their concerns for an air quality permit filed by 14 Wheatcraft, Inc. for a rock-crushing operation on the banks 15 of the Guadalupe, within 2,000 feet of a school, and -- and 16 in the close proximity of many residential properties. The 17 law, as provided to me with emphasis by the County Attorney, 18 tells us exactly what is necessary to get the T.C.E.Q. 19 involved and to conduct a public hearing -- a local public 20 hearing and/or a contested case hearing. And, so, at the -- 21 at the meeting, which was attend by about 125 people from 22 the community, we talked about all of that and tried to stay 23 focused with respect to the rock-crushing aspects of -- of 24 the proposed operation and the amount of particulate matter 25 that would be released into the air unchecked, and what can 9-26-05 97 1 be done about it. I have introduced a resolution for the 2 Court, and with your indulgence, I'll put it into the 3 record, and then we can open up discussions, if you will 4 allow that. 5 "Whereas Wheatcraft, Inc., doing business as 6 the Rhodes Pit Rock Quarry, located at 6133 Highway 27, 7 Center Point, has made application to Texas Commission on 8 Environmental Quality, Permit Number 76508, to construct and 9 operate a rock-crushing facility; and 10 "Whereas there is substantial public interest 11 about the amount of particulate matter that will be 12 discharged into the air daily that may cause harm to the 13 health of adults and children living in close proximity to 14 the proposed rock-crushing facility; and 15 "Whereas Center Point Independent School 16 District has educational facilities located within 17 2,000 feet of the proposed rock-crushing facility; and 18 "Whereas Health and Safety Code, Chapter 19 382.056 requires the T.C.E.Q. to consider the possible 20 adverse short-term and long-term effects of air contaminants 21 if a proposed facility is located within 3,000 feet of an 22 elementary, junior high, or senior high school facility; and 23 "Whereas other significant issues and/or 24 questions raised must be addressed by the applicant to the 25 T.C.E.Q. before a permit is issued, such as whether or not 9-26-05 98 1 an air dispersion model has been completed, whether or not 2 an archeological study has been completed, why no 3 particulate ambient air monitoring has been proposed, 4 whether or not any of the primary listed, if crushed, rocks 5 are more prone to causing pulmonary fibrosis. Where is the 6 700 gallons per minute of water to be used in this operation 7 -- where is it originating? How much sediment will be 8 discharged into the Guadalupe River? How much 9 petroleum/chemical contamination of the ground will occur 10 from the large volume of trucks anticipated to this site? 11 "Therefore, be it resolved that Kerr County 12 Commissioners Court, meeting in special session on Monday, 13 September 26th, 2005, does hereby oppose the issuance of an 14 air quality permit to Wheatcraft, doing business as Rhodes 15 Pit Rock Quarry in Center Point, Texas, until and unless 16 appropriate controls are established that will protect the 17 health and safety of Kerr County residents and school 18 children located in close proximity to this facility; and 19 "Be it further resolved that Kerr County 20 Commissioners Court does hereby request the Executive 21 Director of T.C.E.Q. to conduct a local public hearing and a 22 contested case hearing on said application at the earliest 23 possible date; and 24 "Be it further resolved that copies of the 25 Resolution of Opposition be forwarded to State 9-26-05 99 1 Representative Harvey Hilderbran and State Senator Troy 2 Fraser urging them to likewise request a public hearing and 3 a contested hearing on this matter." 4 And I offer this resolution for adoption. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: You're moving the adoption? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion on the floor 8 for the adoption of the resolution. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second 11 for adoption of the resolution. Any question or discussion? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have a comment. I 13 think the last "whereas" should be put in a letter form, and 14 I'd be happy to sign that, but I'm really uncomfortable 15 about opposing any kind -- the Commissioners Court opposing 16 any kind of private sector issue. These things -- and, I 17 mean, this is a state -- really a state issue. These things 18 outlined here in the last "whereas" are really the questions 19 for T.C.E.Q., and, you know, I would prefer to seek that, 20 but in a letter form, not -- I would sign off on it. But as 21 far as the Commissioners Court opposing a company -- I just 22 -- I don't think that's the right route to go. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, let me expound, 24 Commissioner, by saying that we're not opposing the rock 25 mining. He has every legal right to do that, and that is 9-26-05 100 1 not the issue at all. In our discussion at Center Point 2 last Tuesday, we tried to make it perfectly clear that the 3 man can conduct legal mining. The only issue here is the 4 uncontrolled release of particulate matter into the air. 5 That's the only issue. We're not opposing his mining. 6 We're not opposing his ownership. We're not opposing 7 anything, except we want controls put on the -- on the 8 release of particulate matter into the air. That's the only 9 -- that's the form of opposition. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, of course, the 11 State regulates that and has all the authority to do it. I 12 just don't see what -- what -- how is this going to help? 13 You think T.C.E.Q.'s going to get this resolution and say, 14 "Oh my god, Kerr County's after us"? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not really. They're 16 going to get about 125 letters also, and they're going to 17 get a call from Representative Hilderbran, and I'm hopeful 18 the same from Senator Fraser, seeking a public hearing. 19 That's what we're seeking, is a public hearing -- a 20 contested hearing so that we can discuss the appropriate 21 legal remedies that can be put on the air quality permit. 22 Not his mining. We have other mining over there. We got 23 mines all over the place, and that's perfectly legal, and 24 that's not in question. Another matter is, he's operating 25 in the floodplain. Thus far, he has not -- he has not come 9-26-05 101 1 to Kerr County to file an application to operate in the 2 floodplain. There are other -- other things that have to be 3 addressed in this, and I think it's time to address them. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You want Rusty to take 5 his handcuffs down there? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or do you want me to 8 take mine? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Both. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't get it. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess I share a lot of 12 Commissioner Baldwin's concerns. I mean, I don't mind doing 13 a resolution asking that a hearing be held. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I don't -- I can't -- 16 at this point, I don't know enough to oppose. I think that 17 anything that's done needs to be in compliance with T.C.E.Q. 18 rules and regulations. They're the ones that are 19 responsible for protecting the community in this type of 20 endeavor, so I certainly -- I totally support you on 21 requesting a local hearing be held, and if we need a 22 resolution to do that, that's fine, but I'm uncomfortable 23 opposing something that I don't know anything about. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're opposing an air 25 quality permit that has none of these controls on it. 9-26-05 102 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or 2 comments on the motion? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, yeah. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The public out there 5 wants to speak, I'm sure, Judge. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, bring them on. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, I'm going to get to 8 that. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are they going to -- 10 they going to talk about libraries or juvenile detention 11 facilities or what? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: No. No, we've got some 13 particular speakers on this issue, if members of the Court 14 are through. Mr. John Kovacs? 15 MR. KOVACS: Good morning, gentlemen. My 16 name is John Kovacs. I live at 428 China Street in Center 17 Point. Probably one of your newest residents to the county; 18 we moved here over Memorial Day. I purchased the money pit 19 two years ago, and been working on it. We just moved here a 20 couple weeks ago. Found out that across the river from 21 where I've been putting my life savings, they're wanting to 22 put in a rock crusher. Commissioner Williams was great on 23 holding a meeting. Over 125 people from Center Point, which 24 I understand is quite unusual, showed up showing concern. 25 Commissioner Williams made it very clear that our issue was 9-26-05 103 1 the rock-crushing facility. He made it very clear that 2 mining is legal, you know, given the right permits. But the 3 man is not operating, even currently, with any permits, from 4 what I understand. He doesn't have any of that information. 5 I'm new to the area. You guys got a whole 6 county to take care of, but this is Center Point, and I'd 7 like to just give you an idea of what is already occurring. 8 You say you don't know enough to oppose it. I'll give you a 9 little bit of information about what the man is doing, and 10 at an accelerated rate, of what he's trying to accomplish. 11 Last Friday I took some pictures. This one right here shows 12 the proximity to the river of where they're already mining 13 in the floodplain, right next to the river. Without even 14 having a crusher, the amount of dust is coming up from one 15 of a number of big machines. Again, not crushing yet, not 16 doing anything. But again, doing it, I am assuming, 17 legally, because there's no permits even for the mining 18 aspect of this. 19 Again, showing another piece of it, this is 20 Center Point. This is a small area, but, again, it has much 21 ramification for the future, what y'all were talking about 22 in the first part of this morning, tax base, the future of 23 the county. This is from Highway 27. This is what 24 everybody at the new -- new gate -- new home development 25 across 27 will look at every day, and it will get worse 9-26-05 104 1 every day. Chances of new developments going in are going 2 to be even less. The air quality, as you can see -- no rock 3 crusher is even on-site yet, and yet they're not doing 4 anything to control the dust. Which, the way that it is on 5 this particular day, I can tell you, if you'll go out there 6 and look at the photograph, is heading straight toward the 7 schools. That's the direction that that dust is going. 8 They claim to have no trucks. That's a Wheatcraft truck 9 coming out of the facility. The permit even asked for a 5 10 mile-an-hour. I can tell you, the man was traveling 11 substantially over 5 miles an hour. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What permit? 13 MR. KOVACS: I'm sorry? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What permit? You just 15 said the permit. 16 MR. KOVACS: Application, I'm sorry. The 17 permit application. Sorry. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 19 MR. KOVACS: The application -- T.C.E.Q. 20 application states 5 miles an hour would be the maximum 21 speed for the trucks. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 23 MR. KOVACS: On site. And, again, the last 24 photograph -- I took a lot of photographs, but I just want 25 to give you a few. That's what's going to happen on 27. 9-26-05 105 1 They're just now ramping up to get going. But, again, we 2 have the issue -- you say you don't know enough to oppose 3 the rock crusher. I would think you need -- you need to get 4 educated, because the rock crusher -- yes, this is legal 5 mining, but, you know, we're talking about Center Point 6 coming online from the standpoint of being a greater area of 7 tax base and growth for the county. We have the air quality 8 issue. We have the health issue of the people that are 9 there, a lot of retired people. My father-in-law's 86 years 10 old. We live within a 2,000-foot zone of that. Next door 11 is an 80-year-old lady whose son just moved into the 12 property with her; they're improving their property. He has 13 asbestosis and silicosis already, compromised lungs to begin 14 with, and we're going to be right next to this crusher. We 15 have the noise issue. They want to operate that thing 12 16 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days a year. That's a 17 tremendous amount. That is going to impact the local 18 community. 19 The greatest impact is going to be economic. 20 According to their own permit application, it's going to 21 create five jobs. That whole rock-crushing -- the whole 22 facility on 170 acres is going to create five whole jobs. 23 That doesn't do much for the tax base of the city -- of the 24 county, excuse me. If I'm correct on their tax situation, 25 they even are able to maintain their agricultural exemption 9-26-05 106 1 and run the mining operation there, so they really are 2 adding nothing to your -- to your tax base by what they 3 bring out of it. That 170 acres, even if you gave half of 4 it to the river, in the floodplain and everything, would 5 allow for some future development for people like me who've 6 just moved here, who are currently looking for a place to 7 put our business. I don't need 170; I don't need half 170. 8 I need a couple of acres that I'd like to find. You go ask 9 John Mosty; I'm looking for land. I was looking for land to 10 put my business and bring it from San Antonio to this 11 county. Not a lot of jobs, but there's a lot more people 12 like me that need a couple of acres to put a small business 13 on to employ some people, and it's not going to happen. 14 What's going to happen is, Center Point is 15 going to get -- because of that proximity to the river, 16 proximity to Highway 27, it's going to -- it's going to keep 17 people from coming in, not make them want to come in. 18 They're not going to want to look at a -- drive by on 27 and 19 look at a giant hole in the ground. So, yeah, you need to 20 work on the issue of educating yourself to what this rock 21 crusher will mean in a negative impact to the county and to 22 Center Point, Texas. And that's the way we have to oppose 23 it, is on the rock-crusher to start with, but I would think 24 that, as the guys that are looking out for the future of 25 this county, you'd want to look at the greater picture. You 9-26-05 107 1 want to bring in more people, more good industry, more good 2 development than to take 170 acres and turn it into a giant 3 mosquito trap. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess the only comment 5 I have is that, you know, I understand your concern, and 6 everyone in Center Point where it's near. I mean, clearly, 7 I wouldn't want it right there either, but Mr. Wheatcraft is 8 the one that owns that property -- I presume he does, or is 9 leasing or whatever the arrangement is. He has a right to 10 do with his private property as he so chooses, as you have 11 the right to do with your private property. The County has 12 no authority to regulate pits. It's been brought up to us 13 numerous times in the past two years, and we can't -- we 14 just have no authority there. We do have some limited 15 authority related to floodplain -- floodplain development. 16 If he's in violation of that, Mr. Odom, who's in charge of 17 that department, is here, and I suspect he will make sure 18 that he is in compliance or shut him down. 19 Related to the rock crusher, you know, like I 20 say, I'm not familiar with it. I do know that there are -- 21 Wheatcraft has a facility on Highway 173 right next to 22 some -- well, residential areas. Comanche Trace, to be 23 precise; very high-end development. I know that Drymala had 24 one outside of Comfort in a relatively high-populated area. 25 Martin Marietta, Lucky 3, and Drymala all have another plant 9-26-05 108 1 over at Griffin Road. I believe some of them have rock 2 crushers. They also have crushed base. I don't know where 3 they get it; maybe they buy it and then bring it in, but I 4 know there are -- so, you know, I'm not sure what that rock 5 crusher means. I am in support of requiring anyone to do 6 what is required by law, and if that -- and I have -- I'm in 7 full support of requiring -- or requesting a local public 8 hearing on the issue of any permits from T.C.E.Q. But I 9 can't go on record as opposing something that I don't have 10 authority to oppose. All I can do is say, yes, T.C.E.Q., I 11 think this is an important issue and I think you should 12 conduct a public hearing here for the citizens of Center 13 Point. And Mr. Wheatcraft has a right to do what he wants 14 with his property. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Commissioner, with 16 all due respect, I think you're centering on the word 17 "oppose." The opposition that I'm proposing is not to 18 Mr. Wheatcraft's right or ability to mine. He can mine all 19 day, every day if he wishes to do so. Same with Mr. Drymala 20 who does it; the same with Martin Marietta and anybody else. 21 They're not doing rock-crushing and they're not putting 22 unregulated amounts -- tons of unregulated particulate 23 matter into the air. All we're asking in this resolution is 24 that we oppose the issuance of an air quality permit until 25 he addresses these issues. Now, I want to put Rex on the 9-26-05 109 1 spot, 'cause I asked the County Attorney to research this 2 with me. I didn't just draft this up willy-nilly, just 3 because I didn't have anything better to do that day. And I 4 am given to understand from the County Attorney that we do 5 have the right to ask for a public hearing and a contested 6 case hearing, and cite the reasons why there should be 7 controls put on, or oppose an air quality permit -- not 8 rock-crushing, as such, but the permit for the unregulated 9 amount of particulate matter that's put in the air. We have 10 every right to do that. Am I right, Mr. County Attorney? 11 MR. EMERSON: Correct. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Then why are we talking 14 about 700 gallons a minute of water? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, that's just 16 another issue, is water. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's what I'm saying. 18 Clean up the resolution and make it to the point; I would 19 support the resolution. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask a 21 question -- let me ask a question on this air dispersion 22 model. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, is there a law or 25 a T.C.E.Q. rule that says that you must provide us with an 9-26-05 110 1 air dispersion model? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He should have filed 3 it with his application. He did not. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Now, same thing 5 with the archeological study. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He should have filed 7 it with his application. He did not. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All of these things 9 that you have listed there. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, the 11 particulate -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What's the problem? 13 Why isn't -- well, no, here's the question. Why isn't 14 T.C.E.Q. up here taking care of this? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They won't until we 16 nudge them to get here. That's the whole purpose. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. You didn't -- you 18 didn't glean much out of this meeting this morning, 19 obviously. You call Mr. Hilderbran and demand that they be 20 up here before dark this evening. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, I did call him, 22 and he's waiting on this resolution. He will act. He was 23 very positive about it. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: See, what he is doing, 25 he is waiting on us to tell him what to do. Sorry, he needs 9-26-05 111 1 to do his job and get these people off their butts out of 2 San Antonio up here doing their job. 3 MR. KOVACS: May I speak? I'd like to 4 address that. I mean, because it says here in my -- I have 5 asked for the contested case hearing as an individual, and 6 it says in here regarding that request, it says, "Thank you 7 for your letter expressing your concerns regarding 8 Wheatcraft air quality permit. Your request has been 9 received by the Texas Commission on Environmental Quality 10 staff responsible. All requests for hearing, if timely 11 filed and authorized, are considered." Y'all are just 12 another part of that process. You guys are part of the 13 people requesting the hearing. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Exactly. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand. Who's 16 that letter from? 17 MR. KOVACS: It's from the Texas Commission 18 on Environmental Quality. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's pitiful. 20 MR. KOVACS: Part of what we have to do to 21 get to the next phase. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Again, I -- 23 MR. KOVACS: One other thing that I -- about 24 the rock crusher specifically that the permit is a little 25 bit vague on is whether or not they're going to crush 9-26-05 112 1 concrete, which takes it into a whole 'nother matter of 2 actually a recycling process, which would take that to a 3 whole new level of environmental issues. You're talking 4 about a truck in full and a truck out full. They got to 5 bring in concrete, crush it, and take out what's -- what 6 they crushed as a different product, so the crusher changes 7 the entire dynamics of what they're putting on that site. 8 Because if they're going to crush it, the environmental 9 issues if they're going to crush concrete, even if it's in 10 the future -- once the crusher's there, hey, slide in 11 approval for a new -- or an application for a new use for 12 that crusher. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are they -- are they 14 crushing currently? 15 MR. KOVACS: No. That's all -- what you see 16 there is just screening. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. So, I mean -- 18 MR. KOVACS: I see no -- again, not being on 19 the property, I've shot photographs from 27 and from the 20 other side of the river. I don't see a crusher. I see a 21 tremendous amount of screening and mining, but no crusher. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: My understanding is 23 he's not yet installed the crusher, but he intends to. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I'll go back. I 25 concur totally with the resolution requesting the local 9-26-05 113 1 hearing be held, and T.C. -- and it can be -- the resolution 2 can state that, you know, we expect T.C.E.Q. to enforce the 3 law. I don't know why we need to say that, but -- I mean, 4 that's their responsibility, not ours, but if that's what 5 the resolution needs to say. I think there's a lot of stuff 6 here about us opposing things that I just disagree with. I 7 mean, I disagree with stating it in the resolution. 8 T.C.E.Q. needs to do their job. I will be glad to support a 9 resolution saying that. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: All right, we'll see 11 if we can amend it so that it meets some of the -- some of 12 the concerns of the residents. But I want to address one 13 other base, Commissioner, with respect to the water. He's 14 going to use a lot of water. The question is, where does it 15 come from? Obviously, I know where it comes from; comes 16 from diversion permits that he may or may not have from the 17 Guadalupe River, and if that's not sufficient, then it may 18 come from an application for a deep well. He's going to use 19 a lot of water. Hopefully, he'll use it to control the 20 dust, but he doesn't say that. He doesn't have that in his 21 application. And that raises significant -- other 22 significant questions. Where's the water going? How is the 23 water going to get back into the river? What's going to 24 happen in terms of detention basins for the capturing of 25 particulate matter and so forth? All these issues need to 9-26-05 114 1 be addressed. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, but those are 3 Headwaters and U.G.R.A. issues, not this Commissioners 4 Court's issue. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I think they're 6 county issues, too. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I -- 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Because we have a 9 right to stand up for our citizens and protect their health 10 and safety, and this is one way to do it. 11 (Applause.) 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. But we do not 13 have the authority -- we do not have the authority, other 14 than requesting an open hearing. It's up to T.C.E.Q. We do 15 not have the authority to go to Mr. Wheatcraft and say you 16 can or cannot do anything. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm not asking that. 18 I'm asking that they oppose the air quality permit issuance 19 until he addresses these issues. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 21 MR. EMERSON: May I shed some light? Just a 22 comment. I think a lot of the confusion here is over 23 details that are in the resolution, and the way the Code's 24 written, basically, is any issues that you want to be 25 discussed at the public hearing need to be raised in 9-26-05 115 1 writing. Now, there is some open comment area, but it's my 2 understanding from listening to Commissioner Williams that 3 these are issues that he wants discussed in the public 4 hearing. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think if -- I really 6 think if the resolution is modified, I can go along with it. 7 I think it's just the verbiage. I think it's the way it's 8 written right now that I oppose. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I believe that we -- 10 that we, as a Court, should ask these questions. I like 11 this list of questions. But I don't like coming along here 12 and saying that we are opposed to some kind of function. I 13 just -- that's just distasteful to me. But I really think 14 that we need to write these in a letter form or something, 15 these issues of -- of archeological study. Of course, you 16 know, the -- that puts an end to the function. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What it means is you 18 can't take that dinosaur bone home with you when you find 19 it. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That means you can't 21 dig a hole there. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Where are we, Commissioner? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We need to amend the 24 resolution so it will be a little -- to address your 25 concerns. 9-26-05 116 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I think under the 2 "resolved," basically just say that, you know, we want to 3 insure that this Rhodes Pit Rock Quarry is in compliance 4 with state law and their rules and regulations. And then -- 5 and then the next one is fine, that we request a local 6 public hearing. And if we need to cite a lot of these 7 things in here, that's fine. If that's what we want them to 8 discuss at the public hearing, that's fine. I think that we 9 also should forward this to -- if the water is a concern, 10 which it is of mine, always -- to Headwaters and U.G.R.A. I 11 mean, they're the ones that control particulate matter 12 getting into the Guadalupe River, not this Court. If a well 13 is going to be drilled for a non, you know, valid purpose, 14 it's Headwaters that has to issue those permits. If it's 15 going to be a huge -- 700 gallons a minute, that's another 16 matter, but if it's over 25,000 gallons a year -- gallons a 17 year or gallons a day? -- gallons a day, it requires a 18 permit from Headwaters, so they need to be brought into it. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't have any 20 problem with that. Be happy to spread the resolution across 21 the board to U.G.R.A. and Headwaters. I'm trying to figure 22 out how we can amend the "resolved" to satisfy your -- your 23 concern. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How about we look at it 25 right after lunch? 9-26-05 117 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You hungry? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, actually, I figure 3 you and I may be able to get together and come up with some 4 language that we both agree to. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Want to come back to it? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that acceptable to you, 9 Commissioner Nicholson? 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes, sir. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let me come back to 12 Item 3, if we might, and are there any other budget change 13 recommendations under Item 3 that the Court needs to take -- 14 MR. LIGON: I requested to speak. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: My apologies, sir. My 16 apologies. I have two others that requested to speak, and I 17 think it's appropriate that we give you that opportunity 18 now, rather than wait until we decide to come back to it. 19 Robert Ligon. 20 MR. LIGON: Your Honor, members of the Court, 21 my name is Robert Ligon, L-i-g-o-n, at 155 J.J. Lane. I'm 22 an owner/occupant of a home out there. I'm probably within 23 400 yards -- which is part of the state law that governs 24 where he can locate this thing -- about 400 to 500 yards 25 away from where he proposes to build this facility. One of 9-26-05 118 1 the things that -- you folks were talking about working this 2 thing out. I'd like to point out that we have 30 days after 3 this appeared in the newspaper to respond -- to request 4 this, so if we spend too much time debating on the legality 5 of the words and things in here, we may lose that right to 6 petition T.C.E.Q. for this public hearing and a contested 7 case hearing. So, I'd appreciate your -- your indulgence in 8 trying to work this thing out. And this should -- I also 9 talked with T.C.E.Q., and they told me that it wasn't 10 unusual for all of the public officials, including Fraser 11 and Hilderbran, to also request these things, so I believe 12 they're doing that. I have contacted their offices to do 13 that. 14 Another thing that I would request is, 15 speaking about the gentleman having the right to do what he 16 pleases on his own land, I'd like to point out that at the 17 present time, he doesn't have a permit to operate in the 18 floodplain, best I can find out. If that's true, he's 19 breaking our law, and I would ask that the County Attorney 20 would obtain a court action forcing Wheatcraft to cease and 21 desist operation until such a time as he obtains this 22 permit. And anyone, I feel like, that would operate outside 23 the law does not really have the best interests of the 24 community in mind. And I'm concerned for my health, and I'm 25 also concerned for the health of the children in our school. 9-26-05 119 1 Center Point is a consolidated school. We have the 2 elementary, junior high, and high school all located there 3 together, plus the Ag Barn where all the animals are located 4 is also located there, and the practice field that they do 5 the baseball and football field is also located in this 6 area. So, the children of our community and the elderly 7 folks will be affected quite a bit by the emissions that 8 come from this. 9 We had the town meeting last Tuesday. We had 10 a very good turnout, which I think shows the interest of the 11 population in Center Point. I also did a petition on my 12 own, and with the help of some of my neighbors, we went out 13 and canvassed the area, and I have over 125 signatures on 14 here requesting also a public meeting and a contested case 15 hearing. After we had the town meeting, I took the -- the 16 -- took the sign-in sheet that we had for the -- for the 17 town meeting and balanced it against the people that have 18 signed in, and it's probably about 20 percent of the people. 19 So, we've got over another 100 people in Center Point, about 20 250 people that are really interested in this, and so I 21 would appreciate very much if you folks could work together 22 and get this thing so we can have a hearing on that, on the 23 proposal for the air quality permit, because I think it's 24 really going to be detrimental to the health and also the 25 environment because of these things. 9-26-05 120 1 We -- we have a nursery over there that makes 2 its livelihood from producing plants, and this fine 3 particulate matter will come over there and just rest on 4 these leaves, and it doesn't get the -- the things that it 5 needs to produce the growth in the plants. And it'll affect 6 all of the -- in my opinion, it will affect all of the 7 environment that we have around in that area. Besides 8 affecting the health, it will also affect the environment 9 and the river and things. But I think one of the big things 10 that I would like to see the County take action on -- you 11 know, three things. Basically, it's to get something to 12 T.C.E.Q. requesting this, and another one would be to make 13 sure that it comes about, and thirdly would be for our 14 County Attorney to look into a cease and desist order until 15 such time that Wheatcraft can come up with the proposed 16 operational permits. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I'd like to 18 add to what Mr. Ligon said that I appeared before the Center 19 Point Independent School District Board of Trustees at its 20 meeting immediately after the town hall meeting, and that 21 board unanimously approved a -- whatever the Commissioners 22 Court comes up with in terms of resolution of support. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions for 24 Mr. Ligon? Thank you, sir. Again, my apologies for almost 25 skipping over you. I appreciate you bringing it to my 9-26-05 121 1 attention. We have one other that there's a public 2 partition form on. Sandra Pená. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Haven't seen you in a 4 while, Mrs. Pená. Welcome. 5 MS. PENÁ: Good morning. My name is Sandy 6 Pená, and my husband and I live at 718 Witt Road, Center 7 Point. We wholeheartedly support the resolution crafted by 8 our Commissioner, Bill Williams, opposing the proposed 9 rock-crushing facility to be located in Center Point. Every 10 stipulation in that resolution is crucial to why such an 11 operation would have a very harmful impact on the homes, the 12 businesses, the schools, the churches, and most of all, the 13 families of Center Point. In 2004, Governor Rick Perry 14 appointed an advisory committee on rock crushers and 15 quarries, chaired by State Senator Troy Frazer. This 16 committee was charged with conducting a study on the Texas 17 Council of Environmental Quality's current permitting 18 process for these types of facilities. 19 This committee looked at issues not currently 20 considered as a part of the T.C.E.Q. permitting process, but 21 which I think this Court ought to also consider. They are 22 the impact of local truck traffic on state and county roads 23 in the vicinity of such a facility, the impact to air 24 quality beyond the immediate vicinity of the crusher, the 25 impact to ground and surface water, and the impact on land 9-26-05 122 1 reclamation after such operations have ceased. In its 2 report back to the governor this January, the committee made 3 a number of excellent recommendations to address these 4 important issues, and they concluded by urging T.C.E.Q., 5 quote, to focus more closely on preventing and reducing risk 6 to human health and the environment, unquote. This morning 7 I'm here to urge you, the Commissioners Court, to focus on 8 the same thing and to demonstrate your commitment to the 9 human health and environment of Kerr County by voting for 10 this resolution. And beyond the specific case, I urge you 11 to use whatever influence you have to keep Kerr County from 12 becoming a moonscape of quarries and other rock mining 13 operations which threaten to degrade our quality of life, 14 pollute our rivers and our streams, and reduce our appeal as 15 the premier place in Texas to live. Thank you. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. Is there 17 anyone else in the audience that wishes to be heard? Please 18 come forward. 19 MR. PENÁ: My name is Raoul Pená. I live at 20 718 Witt Road, and the point that I would like to make is 21 that I've -- it is my understanding that agricultural land, 22 as converted into a rock quarry, retains its agricultural 23 exemptions. With the kind of financial problems that you 24 have, I urge you to go -- the Tax Assessor/Collector, go to 25 all these mining facilities that are currently operating 9-26-05 123 1 under a tax exemption for agricultural use, and reevaluate 2 them as they should be. Thank you. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: In answer to that 4 question, I can answer briefly, and Ms. Rector may correct 5 me if I'm incorrect. We did instruct the Chief Appraiser to 6 relook at this issue, and I believe that he has started, if 7 not done all of the quarries in Kerr County. The actual 8 quarries are not exempt. If they have surrounding property, 9 like this gentleman has 170 acres, you know, out of that 170 10 acres, whatever the actual quarry part, that will not be 11 exempt. The balance of that acreage still -- if he has 12 livestock on it, it qualifies; would be exempt. But I 13 believe that what you've said has been corrected. 14 MR. PENÁ: Good. Well, it was my 15 understanding the reason there were so many quarries in Kerr 16 County is because they got a tax break. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We follow state law. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. Is there 19 anyone else in the audience that wishes to be heard on this 20 particular issue? Yes, ma'am? Please feel free to come 21 forward. 22 MS. KYLE: Thank you. My name is Kay Kyle. 23 I live at 600 Bluff Creek Road, and I would just like to 24 encourage you to vote for this contested hearing so that all 25 these issues that he has not put in his proposal can be 9-26-05 124 1 answered, so that we will be assured that our quality -- air 2 quality, water quality and everything has been met, so that 3 there will be nothing harmful for all of the neighbors that 4 live next to this proposed site. Thank you. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. Is there 6 anyone else in the audience that wishes to be heard on this 7 item? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Before you close out 9 the agenda item, Judge, I'll get with Commissioner Letz and 10 we'll see if we can reconcile some language differences here 11 and come back to the issue after lunch. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge? I'd just like 13 to say, Bill, I'm not -- I'm not opposed to what you're 14 trying to do here. I understand. I just don't get it, 15 why -- the State just needs to do their job. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree. All we're 17 doing is trying to urge them to do that. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I -- we don't 19 have -- we don't have the stroke that Harvey Hilderbran and 20 your state senator -- I assure you, if those two guys 21 requested T.C.E.Q. to come up here and investigate, they 22 will be here before dark. I don't know why you're going -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I intend to give them 24 that opportunity to do just that. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But they -- they won't 9-26-05 125 1 do that without a resolution from the Commissioners Court? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It helps. It really 3 helps. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Can we leave that one? 6 We'll come back to that later. The issue now is, do we 7 forge forward, or do we take a break for lunch? What's the 8 pleasure, gentlemen? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I see people waving 10 hands; they want their items heard. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Everybody's eyes are 12 glazing over, Judge. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: We've got a number of items to 14 be heard. I don't want to unduly delay getting to the 15 particular matter that you may be interested in. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Judge? I've got a 17 $20 ticket for lunch, and I've already missed it. So, since 18 I've wasted my $20 and didn't get a lunch, I'd just as soon 19 go ahead. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If we could just take a 22 short break and come back, I think we can work through 23 lunch, 'cause I do have to leave early today. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm available to work 25 through lunch. I want to resolve this issue and get it -- 9-26-05 126 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can do it during the 2 break. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: I'd sure like to do that. Why 4 don't we take about a 15-minute recess? We'll come back and 5 we'll get back to it. 6 (Recess taken from 12:17 p.m. to 12:34 p.m.) 7 - - - - - - - - - - 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to 9 order, if we might. We were in recess for about 15 minutes. 10 When we recessed, we were on Item 16 relative to the 11 resolution offered by Commissioner Williams on the 12 application for air quality permit filed by Wheatcraft, Inc. 13 with T.C.E.Q. for that rock-crushing operation down near 14 Center Point. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, during the 16 break, Commissioner Letz and I got our heads together and 17 may have a -- some suggested language change that would do 18 what we need to do, which would be a little more appealing 19 as opposed to the word "oppose." But before I get into 20 that, I had a minute's discussion with Ms. Bailey -- Ilse 21 Bailey, who is rejoining our staff, if we ever get around to 22 Item 1-point-whatever and fund her job. And she reminded me 23 of a case that took place here involving Kerr County that's 24 germane to this, and I would ask Ilse, if you would, please, 25 come remind us all what that was all about. 9-26-05 127 1 MS. BAILEY: Morning, Commissioners and 2 Judge. As I sat through this -- this discussion this 3 morning -- and I will preface this by saying I'm here not as 4 either the Assistant City Attorney or the future Special 5 Prosecutor for the County, but as the former Assistant 6 County Attorney. And in that capacity, I don't recall 7 exactly when it was, but it had to be 8 or 10 years ago, 8 there was a circumstance where FEMA had notified the County 9 that the County was in significant danger of losing its 10 federal flood insurance because of an excavation that had 11 taken place on some property without a permit in the 12 floodplain out between Center Point and -- and Kerrville, 13 and pretty much in this exact same location; a little bit 14 further -- closer to Kerrville. It was on some property 15 that Bobby Shelton had owned. And, of course, we all know 16 he has passed away since that time, and the property was in 17 the ownership of a bank, and so we were faced with the 18 position of trying to require the bank to do significant 19 rehabilitation of this excavation in order to put the 20 floodplain back the way it was, or have the County lose its 21 entire flood insurance. 22 We were able to eventually negotiate a 23 circumstance whereby we -- the property owner, the bank, 24 hired an engineer to do hydrological studies that 25 established that certain berms could be placed to withhold 9-26-05 128 1 the flood waters, and that FEMA would be satisfied with 2 that, and therefore withdraw their threat of -- of removing 3 our flood insurance. But the reason I brought that up to 4 Commissioner Williams is that, you know, things change. 5 FEMA may have changed their policies or procedures, and I'm 6 not saying that it would be the same case today, but it 7 caused significant trouble on the back end because the 8 property owner didn't do what they were supposed to do at 9 the front end. And I'm hearing today that T.C.E.Q. has said 10 that they don't have any particular issue about the 11 floodplain and excavation, but I would certainly urge you 12 to, before you let this opportunity go by, check and make 13 sure that perhaps FEMA wouldn't have some concerns. And 14 it's much cheaper and more appropriate for the County to 15 address those questions up front, rather than the back end 16 after the excavation's been done, particularly if it's a 17 significant amount of excavation, that the company might 18 just say, "Oh, I'm out of it; now it's your problem," the 19 County. So, I just wanted you all to -- to kind of put that 20 into the mix of what you're considering. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ilse, wasn't that case -- 22 as I recall, it was a -- they put a drainage -- basically 23 moved a creek? 24 MS. BAILEY: Well -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And it was going across a 9-26-05 129 1 field, and they put some berms up to prevent flooding of a 2 field? 3 MS. BAILEY: Sort of. It was a big, flat 4 field, but as fields go, it wasn't completely flat, and so 5 when it flooded it would retain water in certain areas. And 6 since Mr. Shelton was trying to grow apples, that was bad 7 for them. So, what they did was they graded the field and 8 then dug one trench along the side, rather than have it sort 9 of meander across the field, so it was of much less 10 significant impact on drainage than what I would anticipate 11 a mine to do. Now, I'm not a -- you know, a miner or a 12 hydrologist, so I may be speaking out of turn. It seems to 13 me we're talking about much more significant earthworks than 14 what caused FEMA to really threaten the County in the past. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it wasn't -- I guess 16 my point is that -- I'm familiar with that situation, and 17 that was not a -- wasn't a quarry. 18 MS. BAILEY: No, no. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It was changing -- 20 MS. BAILEY: It was changing the flood -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Changing dirt and 22 drainage in the floodplain, as opposed to mining in the 23 floodplain. 24 MS. BAILEY: Yes, exactly. So -- and that 25 may make it, you know, irrelevant; I'm not sure. 9-26-05 130 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But your point's 2 well-taken, that FEMA is a player in this, certainly. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I would offer 5 just some language changes here, and see if this will get us 6 down the road a piece. The first resolved, "Therefore, be 7 it resolved that Kerr County Commissioners Court meeting in 8 special session on Monday, September 26th, 2005, does hereby 9 urge the T.C.E.Q. to examine carefully all aspects of the 10 air quality permit application Number 76508 filed by 11 Wheatcraft, Incorporated." That would be the first 12 resolved. And then we call for public hearing and contested 13 case hearing, and the third resolved, we add -- we're 14 spreading this around. We add copies to go to Headwaters 15 Groundwater Conservation District, the Upper Guadalupe River 16 Authority, and the Federal Emergency Management Agency. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and a second 20 for the resolution as modified, as indicated by Commissioner 21 Williams. Any question or discussion on the motion? All in 22 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 9-26-05 131 1 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. I need 2 to come back, if we might, back to Item 3, and we'll get 3 that finished up, and then we've got to go to our public 4 hearing and get those resumed. But we're back on Item 3, 5 consider and discuss and take action on '05-'06 budget 6 change recommendations. Where is the Auditor? 7 MS. NEMEC: He had to leave. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. The Auditor, I think, 9 had given us some budget amendments, approximately -- looks 10 like seven different items to handle things that may have 11 gotten overlooked, or modifications that were made in 12 connection with or since the publication of the last run. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What item are we on, 14 Judge? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: We're on Item 3. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, I move that we 17 adopt the budget amendments as recommended by the Auditor. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 20 adoption of the Kerr County '05-'06 budget amendments -- I 21 believe there are seven in number -- as recommended by the 22 Auditor. Any question or discussion? 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Discussion. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Total increase of 25 $36,106. 9-26-05 132 1 JUDGE TINLEY: That's correct. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: 1.3 has to do with 4 budget change recommendations in general. I talked about 5 some changes I wanted to make; Commissioner Williams talked 6 about some he wanted to make, so by voting on these minor 7 changes proposed by the Auditor, we're not closing out this 8 subject? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: No, sir. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 12 discussion? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just one comment. 14 Those that I raised with respect to the library have been 15 addressed by the subsequent motion that we passed, that 16 we're going to fund the library and we'll figure out how to 17 do that with budget amendments after we hear what the 18 number -- agree on a number. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: My concern, 20 Commissioner, is that before the day's over, we're going to 21 vote on a budget, and I -- I've got to have a little better 22 feel about what's in there. For example, I would be willing 23 to go ahead and -- and approve the budget cuts that you 24 recommended, if that helps us get to the end of the process. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or 9-26-05 133 1 comments on the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify 2 by raising your right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Are 7 there any further items under Item 3, consider, discuss, and 8 take action on '05-'06 budget change recommendations? 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes, sir. I'll make 10 a recommendations in four areas, and the first one was 11 reducing elected officials' salaries, and I'll propose that 12 under Item 1.8 later on. That -- would that be an 13 appropriate place to propose that? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Your -- earlier, your 15 comments related to elected officials and department heads, 16 and if that's what you want, then I think Item 3 is more 17 appropriate. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: That would be my thinking, 19 Commissioner, 'cause it does also include department heads. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But you can separate them 21 out. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm going to make a 23 motion that we reduce the current salary of 12 elected 24 officials and two nonelected department heads by 10 percent, 25 and those positions are County Attorney, County Clerk, 9-26-05 134 1 County Commissioners, four of them, County Judge, County 2 Treasurer, District Clerk, Sheriff, County Court at Law 3 Judge, Tax Assessor/Collector, the Manager of the Road and 4 Bridge Department, and the Manager of the Juvenile Detention 5 Facility. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion on the floor. 7 Mr. Auditor, you had a comment that you wanted to offer? 8 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, the County Court at Law 9 Judge's salary is set by state law. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Do I hear a second to the 11 motion on the floor? 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion dies for lack of a 14 second. Are there any mother matters to be taken up under 15 Item 3, consider, discuss, and take action on '05-'06 budget 16 change recommendations? 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. I want to 18 make a motion that we abolish nine additional positions, two 19 in the County Clerk's office, one in the Treasurer's office, 20 two in the Tax Assessor's office, one in the Sheriff, one 21 Environmental Health, one in Maintenance, and combine two 22 jobs into one in J.P. 1 and 3 office. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Do I hear a second to that 24 motion? 25 (No response.) 9-26-05 135 1 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion dies for lack of a 2 second. Any further items to be considered under Item 3, 3 consider, discuss, and take action on '05-'06 budget change 4 recommendations? 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes. I make a 6 motion that we abolish the Trapper contract, cut the 7 Extension Service and County-Sponsored functions by 8 20 percent. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Do I hear a second to that 10 motion? 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Hearing no second, the motion 13 dies for lack of a second. Any further items to be 14 considered under that agenda item? 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I move that we cut 16 the funding of the EMS contract by $100,000, with the 17 expectation that we'll be able to negotiate a new contract 18 at six months into this budget period that will eliminate 19 the losses due to undercharging and undercollecting. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there a second to that 21 motion? 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion dies for lack of a 24 second. Any further items to be considered under Agenda 25 Item Number 3, consider and discuss and take action on 9-26-05 136 1 '05-'06 budget change recommendations? We will move on 2 to -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Number 2. We skipped 4 that one. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Hmm? Which one? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Item 2 we were going to 7 do after we did Item 3, I thought. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: We're certainly going to have 9 to do Item 2 before we get to Item 10. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's go to Item 4, 12 consider, discuss, and approve the Sheriff and Constables' 13 fees as authorized by Local Government Code, Section 14 118.131. 15 MS. PIEPER: Gentlemen, this is a formality 16 we go through every year that requires me to send the 17 Sheriff and Constable fees to the Comptroller by October the 18 15th, and I will defer this to our Sheriff. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: When I first came today, 20 I wasn't prepared to make any changes to these, because this 21 Court did address this two years ago and we made several 22 changes. But one of the constables has brought to my 23 attention, under service fees, being small claims citation 24 and justice court citations, we have both those set at $45, 25 and then we have all other court citations at $60. His 9-26-05 137 1 concern was that there is a number of times that it takes 2 him three to four to five times going out to a location 3 trying to serve a citation out of the justice courts, and 4 the prices of fees are not in line with the rest of them. 5 And he would like to express on behalf of some of the 6 constables, at least, to change those two $45 fees up to $60 7 fees to put them in line with all the other citation fees we 8 have. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'd like to do that. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And I would be in 11 support of that. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that a motion? 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Are those the only changes 16 you're asking, Sheriff? 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes, sir. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Everything else stays 20 the same here? Everything else stays the same? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Is the motion, Commissioner 22 Nicholson, to adopt these fees with the two exceptions as 23 noted by the Sheriff? 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes, sir. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I have a second? 9-26-05 138 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, I seconded. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any questions or 3 discussion on the motion? All in favor of that motion, 4 signify by raising your right hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We'll 9 move to Item 5, consider, discuss, and take appropriate 10 action on the Violence Against Women Act grant-funded 11 special prosecutor's salary and budget. A little tough to 12 say, but you can say V.A.W.A. now. 13 MR. EMERSON: Thank you, sir. I stand before 14 you today -- the Commissioners Court, back in January, 15 approved a resolution whereby we could apply for a special 16 grant for a special prosecutor for crimes against women, and 17 the Court committed to fund the matching part of it. The 18 State, somewhat to our surprise and much to our benefit, has 19 approved an award of $70,879. As it was indicated in the 20 paper, I guess, last week, we approached Ilse Bailey and 21 several other people about applying for the position, went 22 through a series of interviews and questionnaires, and 23 Ms. Bailey was offered the position and very graciously 24 accepted. 25 What we need to do with the budget -- and I 9-26-05 139 1 know this is a late date, but because of the recent 2 notification, this position -- this grant was fully funded 3 as of September 1st, but we need to modify our budget 4 accordingly, I guess somewhat to the effect that we did the 5 Crime Victims Assistance, and set up a special budget line 6 item for a grant-funded position. The only thing that the 7 County is required to fund on this is the actual insurance 8 cost. Everything else is covered by the grant and/or one of 9 the three prosecutors' offices. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: I think the health insurance 11 cost is already included within the budget that we have 12 before us, is it not? 13 MR. TOMLINSON: That's correct. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 15 MR. EMERSON: Then what we need to do is, I 16 guess, approve the budget as it's presented on the grant 17 application, which includes -- and includes a salary for 18 Ms. Bailey of $59,034, and then includes the -- the 19 insurance which apparently has already been funded. The 20 contractual fees that are included in there are actually 21 services that are already currently provided through the 22 Sheriff's Department, the police department, and/or Todd 23 Burditt, the 198th investigator, so it's an in-kind type 24 contribution. The travel that's listed in the grant is 25 $2,500 for fees and CLE, which is included in the grant. 9-26-05 140 1 There's $1,000 in travel that would be required 2 out-of-pocket. It was agreed between the three prosecutors 3 it would be covered out of our offices, depending on what 4 the CLE was addressing. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mr. Emerson, what -- 6 I'm looking at the grant budget formulas page where you 7 break down these items, and what was the number for the 8 salary for the attorney? 9 MR. EMERSON: It's about three pages up; it's 10 $59,034. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I'm looking at 12 a different number; I'm looking at 68,379. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Previous page. 14 MR. EMERSON: That -- actually, that includes 15 the -- the FICA and the retirement. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, I got you. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is this a one-year grant, 18 or -- 19 MR. EMERSON: Correct. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- is there a likelihood 21 it's going to be renewed? 22 MR. EMERSON: That's my understanding, is 23 when we reapply in January, that providing statistics 24 validate the grant, that we stand to get approval. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We need to approve, then, 9-26-05 141 1 just the budget today? The grant budget? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: The grant budget. 3 MR. EMERSON: Yes, sir. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I make a motion we 5 approve the grant budget as presented. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 8 approval of the V.A.W.A. grant budget as presented. Any 9 question or discussion? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. Do we not have 11 to amend your department budget also? 12 MR. EMERSON: This is pretty much a 13 freestanding grant budget, somewhat like the Crime Victims 14 Assistance. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I see. Thank you. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or 17 comments or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify 18 by raising your right hand. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 23 MR. EMERSON: Thank you. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's get back, if we could, 25 to Item Number 2, consider, discuss, and take appropriate 9-26-05 142 1 action on repealing Court Order Number 28266 requiring 2 General Operating Reserve Fund balance of 25 percent to be 3 maintained by Kerr County during such fiscal period, and if 4 necessary, to set new percentage. Commissioner Nicholson? 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Procedurally, I'm 6 not quite sure how to deal with this. We have a court order 7 we passed last year that says we have to maintain a 8 25 percent reserve, and we're about somewhere around 9 $500,000 under that right now. So, I would say we -- if 10 we're going to adopt a budget that's $500,000 deficit, we 11 have to repeal that court order. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree to a degree. I 13 think that the -- we certainly need to make an exception for 14 this year's budget, but my preference would be to not repeal 15 the order; just pass an order that waives that requirement 16 for the financial year 2005-2006. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that a motion? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'll second it. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that 21 the Court Order 28266 be inapplicable to the Kerr County 22 budget for the Fiscal Year 2005-2006. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any question or 25 discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion, 9-26-05 143 1 signify by raising your right hand. 2 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 4 (No response.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's 6 -- let's get back and get these public hearings out of the 7 way now for the financial issues, now that we've got those 8 pretty well resolved. I will recess the Commissioners Court 9 hearing at this time, and I will reconvene a public hearing 10 that was called at approximately 10 a.m. this morning, that 11 public hearing being on proposed salary expenses and other 12 allowances of elected county or precinct officers for Fiscal 13 Year 2005-2006. 14 (The regular Commissioners Court meeting was recessed at 12:56 p.m., and the Item 1.7 15 public hearing was reconvened as follows:) 16 P U B L I C H E A R I N G 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there any member of the 18 public that wishes to be heard with respect to the proposed 19 salary expenses and other allowances of elected county or 20 precinct officers for Fiscal Year 2005 and 2006? Any member 21 of the public or the audience that wishes to be heard on 22 that item? Pursuant to -- there was a published notice with 23 regard to that. Seeing no one moving towards the front or 24 otherwise asking to be recognized, I will close the public 25 hearing on the proposed salary expenses and other allowances 9-26-05 144 1 of elected county or precinct officers for Fiscal Year 2 2005-2006, and I will resume or reconvene the Commissioners 3 Court meeting. 4 (The public hearing was concluded at 12:57 p.m., and the regular Commissioners 5 Court meeting was reopened.) 6 - - - - - - - - - - 7 JUDGE TINLEY: And I will call Agenda Item 8, 8 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on setting 9 the salary, expenses, and other allowances of elected county 10 or precinct officers for Fiscal Year 2005-2006. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I would move 12 approval of the salary, expenses, and other allowances of 13 elected county and precinct officers for Fiscal Year 14 '05-'06, as published in the Kerrville Daily Times as 15 required by law. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 18 approval of the salary, expenses, and other allowances of 19 elected county or precinct officers for Fiscal Year 20 2005-2006, as set forth in the public notice. Any question 21 or discussion? All in favor of that motion, signify by 22 raising your right hand. 23 (Commissioners Baldwin, Williams, and Letz voted in favor of the motion.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Opposed. 9-26-05 145 1 (Commissioner Nicholson voted against the 2 motion.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. I will 4 now recess the Commissioners Court meeting, and I will 5 reconvene a public hearing that was originally called at 6 approximately 10:30 a.m. this morning, that public hearing 7 being on the proposed 2005-2006 Fiscal Year Kerr County 8 budget. 9 (The regular Commissioners Court meeting was recessed at 12:59 p.m., and the Item 1.9 10 public hearing was reconvened as follows:) 11 P U B L I C H E A R I N G 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there any member of the 13 public or the audience that wishes to be heard concerning 14 the proposed Fiscal Year 2005-2006 Kerr County budget? Any 15 member of the audience or public that wishes to be heard 16 with respect to the coming year's budget? Seeing no one 17 moving forward or otherwise seeking to be recognized, I will 18 close the public hearing on the proposed Fiscal Year 19 2005-2006 Kerr County budget, and I will reconvene the 20 Commissioners Court meeting. 21 (The public hearing was concluded at 1 p.m., and the regular Commissioners Court meeting 22 was reopened.) 23 - - - - - - - - - - 24 JUDGE TINLEY: And we will go to Item 10 on 25 the agenda, consider, discuss, and take appropriate action 9-26-05 146 1 to adopt the proposed Fiscal Year 2005-2006 Kerr County 2 budget. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I move we adopt 4 the proposed Fiscal Year 2005-2006 Kerr County budget. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: As amended? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: We've already approved those 7 seven items. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, we've already 9 done that. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: So they are part of the budget 11 now. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is there something 13 else? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. I just wanted 15 to make sure that was in there. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to 18 approve the proposed and adopt the proposed Fiscal Year 19 2005-2006 Kerr County budget, which includes the seven items 20 that were previously voted on that is part of the budget 21 now. Any question or discussion? 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Judge, I need to 23 propose an amendment, to add $4,000 to the Rabies and Animal 24 Control budget for vehicle maintenance and repair. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Are you offering that 9-26-05 147 1 as an amendment to the -- to the budget? 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is this -- 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We blew up an engine 6 on a truck. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second -- well, I guess 8 -- actually, I guess -- 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Takes care of that. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You know, I don't know 11 how we procedurally handle that. I agree with the 12 Commissioner. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's in there 14 somewhere. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second 16 to amend the motion to adopt the fiscal year '05-'06 budget 17 to increase Animal Control, the appropriate line item, to 18 cover vehicle maintenance and repair, to increase that by 19 $4,000. Is there any question or discussion on the 20 amendment? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're voting on the 22 amendment? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: We are voting on the amendment 24 now. All in favor of the amendment to increase the Animal 25 Control budget by $4,000 for vehicle repair, signify by 9-26-05 148 1 raising your right hand. 2 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 4 (No response.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know. Why 7 don't we just take that out of their salary? Might be -- be 8 easier. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: We now have another motion on 10 the floor to adopt the proposed Fiscal Year 2005-2006 Kerr 11 County budget. Any question or discussion? All in favor of 12 that motion, signify by raising your right hand. 13 (Commissioners Baldwin, Williams, and Letz voted in favor of the motion.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (Commissioner Nicholson voted against the 16 motion.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We 18 will move to Item 11, consider, discuss, and take 19 appropriate action on recommendation and request for court 20 action in filling County Extension Agent, Family and 21 Consumer Sciences position in Kerr County. Ms. Cheryl 22 Mapston from the district office in Uvalde. I apologize for 23 you getting to spend the day with us. I hope it's been 24 informative. 25 MS. MAPSTON: Yes, it has. Thank you very 9-26-05 149 1 much. We're pleased to be here today on behalf of Texas 2 Cooperative Extension to bring forth an applicant for the 3 vacant Family and Consumer Sciences position. And I'd like 4 to introduce her at this time. Today I brought with me 5 Nicole Spenrath, and Nicole grew up in -- grew up in Comfort 6 area. She's a former 4-H'er; she was in the Kendall County 7 4-H program for 12 years, and that was her first contact 8 with the Extension. She went on to college at Tarleton 9 State University and received a Bachelor's degree in home 10 economics, and as a part of her studies there at Tarleton, 11 she served as a student intern at our Erath County Extension 12 Office there in Stephenville, so she's had an opportunity to 13 see the inside of a -- inside workings of a County Extension 14 office from an internship program. After Nicole -- and then 15 also she was a member of the FFA and also served as a 4-H 16 leader and a 4-H judge through her college career. 17 She began her professional career with the 18 Women, Infant and Children Nutrition Program out of San 19 Marcos, where she supervised, she trained employees, she 20 screened clients to determine their eligibility, developed 21 and actually taught nutrition education lessons for those 22 clients in WIC, and she also collaborated with other social 23 service agencies to get things done for people within that 24 program. Then the program was transferred over to 25 Fredericksburg at Memorial Hospital, where she's been for 9-26-05 150 1 the past few years, and she serves as the WIC Program 2 Director there and she serves a five-county area. She has 3 been involved with our County Extension Agent, FCS, within 4 the hill country, where they have -- she served on our 5 advisory board. She's familiar with the Better Living for 6 Texans Nutrition Education Program for Limited Resource 7 Audiences, and serves -- actually served on the Kerr County 8 board for the Better Living for Texans Program. And so, I'd 9 like to introduce Nicole at this time, and then recommend 10 Nicole Spenrath be appointed as County Extension Agent for 11 Family and Consumer Sciences at the currently budgeted 12 salary effective October 12th. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: October 12th. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you sure she 15 wants to after listening to all that this morning? 16 MS. SPENRATH: I'm pleased and excited, 17 actually, to be given the opportunity. I certainly hope 18 that this will be approved, but it was a very interesting 19 day to have to sit through here -- through your court. Do 20 y'all have any questions you'd like to ask me? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you mind coming in 22 every Monday and doing this thing with us? 23 MS. SPENRATH: Well, yeah. That might 24 actually -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So do I. (Laughter.) 9-26-05 151 1 MS. SPENRATH: -- alter my opinion of you. I 2 don't know. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion that 4 we appoint Nicole Spenrath to the County Extension Agent, 5 Family and Consumer Science position in Kerr County. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 8 appointment as requested in the agenda item. Any question 9 or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 10 raising your right hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Glad to have you on board. 15 MS. SPENRATH: Thank you. 16 MS. MAPSTON: Thank you, Judge, 17 Commissioners, and thank you for your continued support and 18 your investment in our program. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, Cheryl. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Now let's go back to 21 Item 6. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's why Leonard's 23 been jumping up and down. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Odom's been getting his 25 exercise almost as much as -- who was your coach down at 9-26-05 152 1 A & M when you were there? 2 MR. ODOM: Coach Stallings. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, boy. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I see. 5 MR. ODOM: May I pass this around? I'm short 6 one, and I'll give the Court -- 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Item 6 is to consider, 8 discuss, and take appropriate action for clarification of 9 minimum lot size for Kerr County subdivisions with community 10 water. 11 MR. ODOM: Right. I apologize; I'm one 12 short, I think -- or did I get -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I've got one. 14 MR. ODOM: I thought I had six when I came 15 in. What I'm seeking from the Court is some clarification, 16 direction of which way to go, because recently we have had 17 several inquiries about this water availability and the size 18 of the lots, whether it's 5 acres and all, and we couldn't 19 give a definitive answer. Because when we look at the 20 rules -- when we look at 5.01.D, it says that -- essentially 21 this; that the total number of lots must be divisible by 22 five. And that was based on surface water. And my 23 understanding is that several years ago there was an entity 24 that was -- I would assume when this was put together, that 25 was going to have the water availability, and that was based 9-26-05 153 1 on surface water. Yet, on the other hand, when we go to 2 5.01.E, it says lot size, and we talk about 1-acre lots if 3 there's community water. And so the question is, what do we 4 go by? Because I've had -- like I say, this -- this is a 5 letter -- no action on this, but this is a letter from a 6 gentleman that wanted to pass this out to you on this item 7 right here. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To me, it's very clear. 9 There's a 5-acre average currently in our current rules. 10 There's a 5-acre average for lots of any size. If you have 11 50 acres currently in Kerr County, you get 10 lots, period. 12 If you are using a community water system, you can have a 13 minimum lot size of 1 acre. You can have -- you know, and 14 then you can have -- you can have, you know, nine 1-acre 15 lots and one 41-acre lot. The average is what's the key. 16 We -- and I guess the confusion came when, several months 17 ago, we suspended the water availability requirements. That 18 has nothing to do with this provision. 19 MR. ODOM: Well, that's essentially the -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 21 MR. ODOM: -- position. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One other comment; I 23 visited with Mr. Davis, and I maybe visited with other 24 people too, and I told him our rules are what they are. 25 But, because of his situation of wanting to put in a 9-26-05 154 1 development -- a high-density development near Ingram, near 2 Greenwood Forest, I said I would personally entertain a 3 waiver, as we have done for other situations in a similar 4 situation to this. And I would support that if that is 5 consistent with two things; one, the fact that he's in the 6 ETJ, and two, that that is the direction that our new rules 7 are going to go. If we can ever get past our budget, I can 8 get back to work on our Subdivision Rules. So, I would 9 support a waiver as we've done previously. 10 I also told him another thing -- another way 11 that he may want to approach this, as some of this property 12 is in the ETJ of the city of Ingram and ETJ of the city of 13 Kerrville, that if he comes to court and asks us just to 14 back out and let those entities handle this, I would support 15 that. But I said, currently -- you know, I've been very 16 clear to him. I said our rules are our rules. But, you 17 know, we'll be glad to talk to him. We don't want -- his 18 bottom line is that he can't -- the economics don't work on 19 5-acre averages next to Greenwood Forest for development. 20 Well, you know, it's not my business whether the economics 21 work or don't work. I gave him two options he can pursue if 22 he wants to. He can pursue the development the way he wants 23 to, or he can follow our rules the way they are. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, it's 5 acres 25 unless you have community water, and then it's down to 9-26-05 155 1 1 acre -- no, community -- community water and community 2 O.S.S.F. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's 5-acre minimum if 4 you're having an individual well, and a 5-acre average. It 5 is a 1-acre minimum and a 5-acre average if you're using a 6 community water system. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right. And then -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're not independent 9 provisions. You have to comply with both the average and 10 the minimum lot size. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What if you have 12 community water and community sewage? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Under our two rules -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Two different 15 proposals? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Hopefully, under our 17 community rules, there's no minimum lot size, but there's 18 still -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No minimum lot size? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it's -- there's still 21 a 5-acre average. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What -- I'm not 24 debating; I just want to understand the relevancy of the -- 25 of the water availability in the situation where you're 9-26-05 156 1 saying you can have -- if you have a community water system, 2 you can have 1-acre lots, nine of them in your illustration, 3 and one 41-acre lot. What is the relevancy of it if you're 4 on community water -- the relevancy of applying the 5-acre 5 averaging for this situation, if they're on a community 6 water system? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The averaging came about 8 based on the -- the water availability, that it takes 9 5 acres to recharge a family household on an annual basis. 10 Therefore -- 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What if it's an 12 individual well? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Doesn't make any 14 difference; it's going to take 5 acres. If you're using 15 groundwater, it takes 5 acres of land to sustain that one 16 household -- average household. So, the averaging just -- 17 the whole reason for doing the averaging as opposed to 18 minimum lot size, if you do a 5-acre minimum lot size, your 19 economics will never work on a community water system. Or I 20 won't say never; it's basically much harder to encourage -- 21 community water systems are good for the most point, 22 excluding the AquaSource issue. But, I mean, overall, from 23 a water standpoint, you're having fewer penetrations into 24 the aquifer, less chance of pollution, and more -- you know, 25 and a better quality well, and which is monitored by the 9-26-05 157 1 state. So, that's the reason. I mean, it's just a matter 2 of trying to make it easier for developments to use the 3 averaging, and many developments have gone in and used this 4 averaging. The newest one in my precinct is The Reserve. 5 They have a number of -- 6 MR. ODOM: 3-acre. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- 3-acre, and probably 8 2 1/2-acre lots, and they have -- and to get the average up, 9 they have some 50- and 60-acre lots. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The newest one 11 actually is the one in my precinct across from the golf 12 course. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. But they have a 14 5-acre average; I think they're -- that's a subdivision 15 going in with individual wells, and there's a 5-acre average 16 and 5-acre minimum. So, I think -- I mean, our rules are 17 what they are. I think they're going to change, but they 18 haven't changed yet. 19 MR. ODOM: Right. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And maybe I confused the 21 poor gentleman when I told him -- 22 MR. ODOM: This gentleman -- if that concept 23 was there, he could bring it in for a variance and the Court 24 could make that decision. And, like I say, I have another 25 one -- there's another one that's a business park right 9-26-05 158 1 across the street that they're -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Business parks are 3 specifically mentioned in our rules as to be addressed on a 4 case-by-case basis. 5 MR. ODOM: And that's what I told the 6 individual at that point, if he was to -- okay, I have the 7 direction. Thank you. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Did that clarify it? 9 MR. ODOM: Makes some clarification. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Apologies to Mr. Davis. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move on to the next 12 agenda item, Number 12, consider, discuss, and take 13 appropriate action on implementing the burn ban. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Judge, this is on 15 here just to keep us in compliance with the law. It's been 16 almost 90 days since we passed the burn ban ordinance or 17 court order, and so I'm going to propose that we -- that we 18 establish a burn ban for 90 days, with the granting each -- 19 each Commissioner the authority to lift the burn ban in his 20 precinct as conditions dictate. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: That one includes "reimpose" 23 also, right? 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Lift or reimpose. We have a 9-26-05 159 1 motion and second for adoption of the burn ban order. Any 2 question or discussion? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Quickly, just for the 4 Court and the public, I am -- I will not suspend it in my 5 precinct. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I will not be 7 suspending mine. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Neither will I. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Neither will I. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other question or comment? 11 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 12 hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We'll 17 move to Item 13, consider, discuss, and take appropriate 18 action to approve the Kerr County Facilities Booking and 19 Rental Policy. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It says Judge, but I 21 actually put that in, Judge, not you. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Mine says Commissioner, 23 Precinct 2. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Does it really? Mine 25 -- whatever. This is the third or fourth draft, I've 9-26-05 160 1 forgotten which. It says second, but it's more than that. 2 And some of the -- all of the comments that the Court 3 offered before are incorporated. Some of the comments that 4 were suggested or offered by the Convention and Visitors 5 Bureau are incorporated, and there are some comments that 6 were given by Caroline Hanson which are not incorporated, 7 and I put them in there for your review, and you tell me 8 whether you'd like to add them in there or not. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Commissioner, I'm trying 10 to make sure I can understand where we are on this process. 11 What we're doing -- what I think -- what I thought we were 12 going to do was hopefully approve this and -- and, at that 13 point -- or I guess approve it to set it out for public 14 review. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We did that. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're already through 17 that completely? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, we're through 19 with that part. We're back. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're back? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And so, like I said, 22 the Court's suggestions are in. Suggestions that were 23 offered by C.V.B. are in, and the only ones that are not in 24 are those that were submitted by Ms. Hanson, which are 25 included. And if you wish them to be in, they'll be in. 9-26-05 161 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why did you not just 2 automatically include them? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, because I think 4 there's some things the Court needs to maybe kick around a 5 little bit. I -- that's a good question, Commissioner, and 6 I just wasn't going to make that many adjustments without 7 the Court knowing exactly what they were and having an 8 opportunity to discuss it. I, frankly, think we have 9 addressed in all of our previous discussions the concerns 10 that were raised by Ms. Hanson, but if you think 11 differently, we can also include those. Mr. Holekamp's back 12 there listening very carefully, and perhaps he has some 13 comments that he'd like to offer as well at this point. 14 MR. HOLEKAMP: The only thing that I had, and 15 this was to several comments on page -- well, it's Number 16 13, the alcohol policy. It says, "Guests attending events 17 may not bring alcohol into any event. Bring-your-own-bottle 18 events are prohibited." The "bring-your-own-bottle events 19 are prohibited" is not a problem, but who's going to police 20 if someone brings an ice chest of beer during an event? I 21 mean, I don't think Maintenance and Facilities are going to 22 go out there and break all their bottles and pour them on 23 the parking lot. Do we call the Sheriff's Department if 24 somebody is drinking beer out there? I just don't know how 25 that would be policed. 9-26-05 162 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess my question goes 2 back to a little bit more fundamental, as to -- I almost 3 hate to ask the question, as to why we have this in our 4 policy. I mean, I think it's good to, but I don't know how 5 you enforce it. I guess -- 6 MR. HOLEKAMP: I don't either. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, I guess it's the -- 8 and if you don't have it, obviously -- 9 MR. HOLEKAMP: You're encouraging. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- you're encouraging 11 people to bring alcohol. If we do have a policy, we're 12 creating a nightmare to try to figure out how to enforce it. 13 And then, as soon as we don't enforce it uniformly, then 14 we're going to be accused of not enforcing uniformly, which 15 is right back to where we are right now. Sheriff, do you 16 have any input, or possibly County Attorney as well? 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: County Attorney may. My 18 input would be, number one, I don't know that I could 19 enforce it. It's a policy; it's not a law, you know. I 20 don't know if you really need it in there. There is a law 21 about public intoxication. If somebody gets out of control 22 and drinks too much at a public event that's out there, or 23 an event that the public's, you know, invited to or can have 24 access to out there, then we can enforce the public 25 intoxication law, or perhaps a disorderly conduct law or, 9-26-05 163 1 you know, minors in possession of alcohol law. There's 2 plenty of other laws that could probably address this. But 3 I don't know -- could you have it as a policy that just -- 4 they may not get to rent the facility again if they violate 5 county policy on what they're supposed to do? I don't know 6 what else is in there, but I would hate to put it on our 7 department to try and enforce the law. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The problem, though, with 9 that approach is, to hold the -- I don't have a problem with 10 trying to hold the person who's renting the facility 11 accountable, but it's -- I'll use the example of the Stock 12 Show Association. Say one of their members -- and 13 there's -- I mean, we're talking about thousands of people 14 out there -- one of them has a beer in their car. Does that 15 mean we're going to never let the stock show exist in Kerr 16 County again? 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: How -- do you let the 18 person in charge of that association address that one person 19 and have him remove his beer, as far as the alcohol policy 20 and renting it? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't think it goes 22 that far, Commissioner. Now, if somebody drives up with a 23 -- with a can of beer in his container module on his truck, 24 and it's open, he's in violation of the law if he gets 25 caught, 'cause they've got an open container law that takes 9-26-05 164 1 care of him. All this says is he can't bring it into this 2 event. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's what I'm saying. 4 I'm saying if somebody pours a beer into a cup and takes it 5 into the stock show. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Commissioner, I've 7 got some real, live, firsthand experience with this. I -- I 8 help cook every year at the Game Warden's event where we -- 9 fundraiser with one of the fire departments, and there's 10 probably, what, Bill, maybe 15, 20 different outfits out 11 there cooking, donating food and all that sort of thing. 12 And I would guess with this policy, you'd probably lose 13 about half your cooks about the second year of this policy. 14 There'd be a lot fewer cooks out there than there have been 15 in the past. I don't know the wisdom of the policy or not. 16 I have not -- in my experience, I haven't seen that it's 17 creating any problems. But if there's -- it's a Kerr 18 County-owned place, and if we need to bar alcohol, we can do 19 that, but there are some consequences. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just think that we have 21 to think of all of the -- the whole spectrum. And we can't 22 treat -- just because someone's paying a -- you know, one 23 fee, they can't be treated differently than the game 24 wardens; they all have to be the same -- treated the same. 25 And -- 9-26-05 165 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I agree. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And you can't -- I can't 3 be in favor of having a policy that would turn and look the 4 other way. I mean, that doesn't make sense either. So, I 5 don't know how we adjust that. Mr. County Attorney, do you 6 have any -- 7 MR. EMERSON: The only input I would have 8 would be that you consider it basically a breach of contract 9 if you address it and they don't handle it, and then you 10 just don't rerent to that particular entity. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, we could -- we could 12 have a policy, and if we -- someone turns in someone, we 13 find the person that headed up the event and say, "You're in 14 violation of our policy; you need to take care of it"? 15 MR. EMERSON: That's the only suggestion I 16 have. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But as long as you're 18 selling it there, it's okay? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. It can be 20 served, yeah. Like the stock show, they -- they serve it; 21 it's part of their -- their event. That would be perfectly 22 fine. They can continue to do that, but they have control 23 of the event. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sales during the 25 fundraiser event. They don't sell it during the stock show. 9-26-05 166 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, just talking 2 about during the fundraiser. No. Heavens, no. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What do you do for 4 events like the chili cook-off down by the river that 5 they've started each year? 6 MR. HOLEKAMP: Park policy. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's park policy. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What are you trying to 10 accomplish with saying no to alcohol? I mean, what is -- 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're not really -- 12 all this is saying -- and I'm not making a statement in 13 support. This is something that came out of our joint 14 discussions, so if we're having second thoughts about it, 15 fine and dandy; we'll adjust accordingly. But -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Glenn, what are you 17 trying to say when you say you can't bring alcohol into our 18 facility? 19 MR. HOLEKAMP: What I'm saying is, is that 20 it's very difficult to police that during some events that 21 are kind of open, I mean, like stock show. I'm going to use 22 that for an example, stock show. They -- if you go behind 23 there, behind that barn, there's a lot of little ice chests 24 and open beers, people -- adults drinking; I've never seen 25 children. But, you know, this -- you know, during a roping, 9-26-05 167 1 for example, the people that rope -- well, you know, they -- 2 they bring their ice chest and they go -- whether it's in 3 their truck or whatever, they go out there and drink a beer 4 and whatever, and then they go rope again. I mean, so I 5 never see -- I've never seen these people in a state of -- 6 that they can't operate. But -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, give me an 8 example of a function that you don't want -- or you wouldn't 9 want alcohol to be there. The B.Y.O.B.? 10 MR. HOLEKAMP: No. No, not with this -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, 4-H, that's 12 clear. Let's go back to Number 4's chili-cooking or 13 shrimp-cooking thing. We don't want those guys to bring 14 their bottle in there, but if we want to sell it to them, 15 it's okay? See, I don't get -- what is the difference here? 16 Do you not want alcohol? Or you want to have the ability to 17 make some money off the alcohol? 18 MR. HOLEKAMP: No, I'm just -- just 19 questioning a policy that -- I was trying to figure out how 20 I would police it. No, no, no, I don't -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm questioning the 22 same thing. 23 MR. HOLEKAMP: I don't have a position one 24 way or the other. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'd like to take 9-26-05 168 1 this policy out. What we got here is a solution looking for 2 a problem. If we have problems out there with drunkenness, 3 we ought to deal with it. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we take out the 6 part that's in bold and underlined. I think the rest of 7 it's okay. 8 MR. HOLEKAMP: Mm-hmm. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, I agree. I 10 agree. Just take out the bold, underlined part. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, at the -- at the 12 4-H -- no, the stock show dinner fundraiser deal, do they 13 sell alcohol there? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, they serve it. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They serve it. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I thought you said you 17 couldn't do that. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, you can. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Sold or served. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: First bullet says 21 alcohol must served only from designated areas. It can be, 22 yeah. 23 MR. HOLEKAMP: There is a difference, and 24 maybe this will help you, Commissioner Baldwin. Your 25 insurance liability is different if there is alcohol versus 9-26-05 169 1 non-alcohol. So, when -- when we deal with the insurance 2 carrier, when a person comes to approach us about booking 3 the facility, one of the first questions is, is there going 4 to be alcohol served? Usually they say no, but then we find 5 out somebody brought alcohol. What -- you know, that is 6 where the issue comes in. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What do you want to 8 do about it? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we take out the 10 bold. 11 MR. HOLEKAMP: I think it needs to be handled 12 primarily on a case-by-case basis. If a person is 13 inebriated -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Then you call -- 15 MR. HOLEKAMP: -- then it's his issue. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, you talk about 18 an enforcement nightmare. You want to sit out there doing 19 breath tests? 20 MR. HOLEKAMP: No, no, no. I'm talking about 21 stumbling-type issues. No, I don't -- no, I really don't 22 want -- if it was me, I'd take out all the bold print and go 23 on. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what we just 25 said. 9-26-05 170 1 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yeah. That's -- but 2 Commissioner Baldwin asked me a question. I tried to answer 3 him. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So the bold print's 5 out. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I have a question 7 for Commissioner Williams. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir? 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: A few months ago, we 10 had -- over several meetings, we had a number of people in 11 here that were pretty upset about the fairness of the way we 12 administered bookings. In your opinion, Commissioner, will 13 these changes -- do these changes deal with their concerns, 14 or are they going to be back in here saying it's still 15 unfair? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I, frankly, think 17 they do deal with the booking concern, right. And, as the 18 Court might remember, when we talked about all this, we 19 tried to put together a comprehensive booking policy. That 20 may embody too much; it may not embody enough in terms of 21 the questions that were raised about booking inequities. I 22 think we've addressed them. Now, there's somebody in the 23 audience who can probably tell me if I'm right or not, 24 because her husband is one of those who books all the time. 25 So, far as I can tell from the discussions that we had with 9-26-05 171 1 Mr. Holekamp, Commissioner Letz, Roy Walston, and myself, we 2 have addressed those -- we have addressed those issues. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, specifically, the -- 4 Ms. Hawkins and -- I forgot all the names. They were 5 provided a copy of this, correct? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, absolutely. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They have seen this, and 8 they have not come saying they don't like it. So, we -- I 9 mean -- 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I dropped copies off 11 at their businesses or residence, and I have not heard from 12 them, so I'm going to assume that they don't have major 13 concerns about it. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I just want to ask 15 Ms. Mitchell -- Ms. Mitchell, how many copies did you -- 16 MS. MITCHELL: Everybody you gave me the name 17 of that had signed up and their address, I sent out. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 15 or 20 copies? 19 MS. MITCHELL: Yes. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I also visited, you 21 know, with one of -- the attorney that represented 22 Mr. Henderson, and never heard back from him after I called 23 him back. So, I mean, I think we have gone the extra mile 24 and, you know, not even asked them to come to participate in 25 this process. We've sent them copies of the new draft, and 9-26-05 172 1 have heard, you know, not a great deal of input, and I think 2 any input they did provide we incorporated. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Did you make a 4 motion, Commissioner? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I will make a motion 6 that we adopt the policy that's in front of you with the 7 change just made in Paragraph 13, eliminating the boldface 8 with respect to guests attending a B.Y.O.B. type phrase, as 9 previously amended. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 12 adoption of the policy with the items mentioned, those -- 13 that change or changes. Any further question or discussion? 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The County Attorney had 15 to go down to a hearing real quick. He did hand me his 16 copy, and he has -- I'll give it to the Judge -- just a 17 couple notations of where he thought about adding some words 18 into certain paragraphs. I -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are those the -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Those are the ones that are 21 already penciled in, as amended, that I was -- 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That may be. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let me see them real 24 quick. Well, no, there's two or three here where the County 25 Attorney has made suggestions, and far as I can tell, they 9-26-05 173 1 should be incorporated. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Why don't -- do you 3 want to incorporate those as part of the motion? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, I will, and 5 we'll have a clean draft for distribution. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it was seconded 7 by Commissioner Nicholson. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 10 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 11 your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. It's a 16 bit past 1:30. We had a 1:30 timed item on the agenda, that 17 being Item 21, consider, discuss, and take appropriate 18 action on the Kerr County Emergency Management Plan. 19 Commissioner Letz? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. I put this on the 21 agenda after the past two hurricanes have come in and made 22 me think that something that we should do on a more regular 23 basis is get an update as to what the Kerr County Emergency 24 Management Plan is. You know, I think flooding is a big 25 issue around here on occasion. It appears to me that we are 9-26-05 174 1 long due for a major flood on the Guadalupe. A major flood 2 means about the height of the Sidney Baker bridge. That's a 3 major flood. We've had some pretty bad floods in recent 4 years, but nothing that I would consider a major flood since 5 1978. And I thought it would be good to put it on the 6 agenda to get an update. My understanding of our policy is 7 that this is administered by Chief Holloway. I'm not -- I 8 can't remember if he's actually designated by the Judge or 9 by the Court, that he's the one -- I think it's by the 10 Judge, actually. But I just thought it would be good to put 11 this on. And I see a representative from the City of 12 Kerrville, I presume from -- on behalf of Chief Holloway. 13 Mr. Beavers, do you have any comments? Or give us an update 14 and kind of -- that's really all I'm looking for, you know, 15 a three or four, five-minute summary as to what the 16 emergency management plan is and how it's created and what 17 our input into the process is. 18 MR. BEAVERS: Okay. Well, as it sounds like 19 you're already aware, the County Judge and/or appropriate 20 mayor are actually the ones responsible for their portion of 21 the plan. Kerrville, Ingram, and Kerr County entered into a 22 joint resolution in 1983 to have a joint emergency 23 operations plan. Y'all did a court order way back when, and 24 the cities did ordinances. Every county in the state of 25 Texas is required to have an emergency management plan by a 9-26-05 175 1 division of Emergency Management, which is an arm underneath 2 D.P.S. Austin. They're required to have a plan and have it 3 approved by the state, which we do and have had since, I 4 guess, 1983. The -- like you mentioned, the instances of 5 the past three or four weeks, I think, brought this to 6 attention, two hurricanes. Everybody's quite concerned. 7 You know, the Red Cross opened three shelters, as a matter 8 of fact, and that's -- we work closely with the Red Cross 9 with sheltering, because that's their bailiwick, so to 10 speak. 11 So, there are 22 annexes in the emergency 12 management plan. You have a basic plan that outlines 13 responsibilities and gives you the legal aspects of it, and 14 then 22 annexes. The Sheriff is in charge of warning, Annex 15 A, for example, and then there are 21 other people assigned 16 to be in charge of the other annexes, such as 17 transportation, public information, whatnot. If a disaster 18 happens in the county, the Judge is responsible for 19 providing political and administrative support and guidance, 20 requesting -- formally requesting assistance from the state. 21 What happens in Kerrville, it falls to the mayor. Likewise 22 with Ingram. We weren't hit with any kind of disaster, 23 obviously, this last go-around or the time before, but parts 24 of the plan were enacted. In fact, the Judge was at a 25 meeting last week with several of us, Rusty and myself, the 9-26-05 176 1 Chief, and about 30 people overall discussing just -- are we 2 ready for any kind of eventuality here? And we are. We 3 were lucky that we didn't get flooded, torrential rains, 4 with the county being as packed as it was with people, 5 especially at the camps and up and down the river. But, you 6 know, these plans have to be an all-hazards plan; it's got 7 to be good for tornadoes, floods, terrorism, whatever. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How often is it updated? 9 Continuously? 10 MR. BEAVERS: The plan has to be updated -- 11 each annex is supposed to be reviewed by the person 12 responsible for that annex annually, and then it's actually 13 updated every fourth year. And that -- as the Judge will 14 tell you, we have -- this year was a year of updating most 15 of the annexes, and they're all pretty much updated; I think 16 we're waiting on one still, which it's quite an effort. The 17 individual in charge of the annex has to review the state 18 template and mold it -- as Rusty will verify for you, it's 19 quite a chore -- and mold it to their own jurisdiction and 20 their own duties in that jurisdiction. And, so, they've 21 recently been updated. The emergency operations center, in 22 case you don't know, is at Kerrville Police Department. The 23 secondary is at Central Fire Station, so that if one is out 24 of service, you have somewhere else to go. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mark, let me ask you a 9-26-05 177 1 question. 2 MR. BEAVERS: Sure. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: As I was watching Rita 4 come through and come in between Florida and Cuba and slip 5 into the Gulf there, then I started kind of watching and 6 waiting on you all to see when you were going to gather the 7 troops up to -- you know, to -- what shall we do here? But 8 I didn't hear about it. What -- at what point are -- how do 9 you make the decision that you need to have a pow-wow? 10 MR. BEAVERS: Well, I believe every 11 circumstance is going to be different. We were constantly 12 reviewing the latest information by the state. They had 13 conference calls every day that we were privy to by entering 14 a certain code number, and you could listen to what the 15 state was doing. We had contacts with Red Cross prior to 16 that point, the hill country amateur radio operators. 17 Police Chief didn't feel like it was necessary to call 18 everybody together to -- to discuss anything at that point. 19 So -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, okay. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What -- let me ask 22 the question a little different way. What did we learn here 23 locally from the two hurricanes that we experienced, with 24 the influx of people coming in to us, that we didn't know 25 before? And when you get done with that, I've got another 9-26-05 178 1 question. 2 MR. BEAVERS: Well, I think -- you know, I 3 had somebody ask me about lessons learned this last week, 4 the San Antonio Express writer for Katrina, lessons learned. 5 And I told him, you know, it's going to be a while before -- 6 I mean, it's still ongoing. I'm sure that FEMA will 7 demand -- or recommend changes be made in the emergency 8 response planning, preparation, mitigation, recovery, 'cause 9 I'm sure they're still uncovering lessons learned. What 10 will be learned locally is probably that the Red Cross does 11 a heck of a job as far as their aspect of it, which is 12 mandated by federal law, that they pretty much be in charge 13 of the shelter operation. They do a great job sheltering 14 the people that don't have anywhere to go. So -- 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One of the things we 16 may have learned locally, which -- and I hope we don't have 17 to go through this again ever, in accommodating all the 18 folks who came here seeking shelter from the storm, but -- 19 I'm glad we had 1,000-plus rooms to put them in, and other 20 shelters; that's wonderful. But what happens in a situation 21 like that, where they're escaping from imminent danger in 22 their own locale, is that they come into town, and while 23 they spend money here, which is okay, they also take out 24 part of the resources that are available to the local 25 community. For example, an operator of 16 fueling 9-26-05 179 1 facilities in Kerr County told me Saturday night that, as a 2 result of all this influx of folks coming in, he has used 3 his allocation of gasoline in 13 of the 16 facilities he 4 operates for the month of September, and he doesn't know if 5 it's going to get renewed appropriately and so forth. So, 6 that puts him and local folks who are in need of their 7 continuing resources in kind of a bind. I don't know what 8 we do about that, but it is something -- it's a fallout. 9 MR. BEAVERS: I don't know. I heard about 10 that. You know, all the resources from the state were 11 geared towards, you know, east Texas; Houston, Galveston, 12 Beaumont, Port Arthur, Lufkin, Jasper, et cetera. They were 13 trying to get the National Guard, which they did, to assist 14 them in getting fuel to the people that were stranded on the 15 highways, as I'm sure you've heard. I don't know that we 16 would be even near their, you know, concern. You know, 17 we're concerned about Kerrville and some fuel issues. But, 18 like I said, I don't really think there's much we can do 19 about that. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I've got two 22 questions, Mr. Beavers; I'll ask them both at the same time. 23 When we have a disaster, are we -- how much confidence do we 24 have that all of the emergency organizations -- Sheriff, 25 police, law enforcement, EMS, fire departments, National 9-26-05 180 1 Guard -- that they'll be able to communicate, that they'll 2 all be on the same radio links or whatever? Are we going to 3 wake up after a disaster and say communications didn't work 4 as well as they need to? And the second question is, who's 5 in charge of evacuation? 6 MR. BEAVERS: Okay. First question is 7 interoperability, and that's something that the state of 8 Texas is working on. In fact, Sheriff Hierholzer has just 9 recently programmed all of his vehicles and portable radios, 10 et cetera, with the Texas Law 1, 2, and 3 interoperable 11 channels, Fire 1, 2, and 3, an air ops channel, and a 12 medical channel; that if you have those frequencies, then 13 you're able to talk to anybody that comes into your 14 jurisdiction, because everybody in the state of Texas is 15 supposed to be working toward that goal. So, I hope that 16 helps to answer that. But -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You mentioned the Sheriff 18 has the capability. Do all other entities in Kerr County 19 have that same capability? 20 MR. BEAVERS: We're working towards it 21 ourselves, and as far as the volunteer departments, they've 22 been issued information, and it's kind of up to them to try 23 and work towards that. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, if there was a -- I 25 guess if there was a big disaster, we would have a 9-26-05 181 1 communication problem potentially today. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, we wouldn't? 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. All of the 5 Sheriff's Department's vehicles and portable radios are all 6 equipped with the Texas Law 1-2-3, Texas Fire 1-2-3, Texas 7 Medical 1, and Texas Air 2, okay? In addition to that, 8 under the Homeland Security program, Kerr County was one of 9 five counties in the 13-county region that was awarded a -- 10 awarded a part of that in the emergency communications 11 trailer. That trailer has about 300 radio frequencies 12 programmed into it. Now, the other thing we did late last 13 week -- and we'll come out with a notice for the media 14 later; it just happened so quickly, trying to get everything 15 organized -- is thanks to Crimestoppers and some other 16 areas, the Sheriff's Department received, as of Friday, 36 17 additional portable radios that are not needed to equip our 18 department, but they are all equipped with all the Texas 19 Law, Texas Medical, and Texas Fire channels to where, say we 20 had a Sheppard Rees or an emergency disaster like that. 21 That trailer can be pulled out; those portable radios can be 22 issued out to the departments that haven't totally made the 23 conversion yet, especially volunteer fire departments or 24 volunteer groups that we have. The emergency communications 25 trailer also has the ham radio frequencies that your ham 9-26-05 182 1 radio operators use, to where we will be able to talk to 2 them and we will be able to set up total communication 3 within Kerr County using that trailer and the equipment we 4 have. So, that has been addressed. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, good. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Who's in charge of 7 evacuation? 8 MR. BEAVERS: The evacuation annex portion of 9 the Ingram-Kerrville-Kerr County risk management plan is in 10 charge. It is run by Chief Young, Police Department. 11 Sheriff Hierholzer is the warning; Chief Young is the -- 12 also the law enforcement annex. How this works is, it 13 doesn't mean that -- and Chief -- or, excuse me, Sheriff 14 Hierholzer is completely aware of this; that, for example, 15 law enforcement issues that cross over the city and the 16 county, it doesn't mean that Chief Young orders or tells 17 Rusty what to do. It's up to him to coordinate the law 18 enforcement annex. He has to know who to talk -- who he 19 needs to talk to to get things done in the county, and 20 obviously, that person will be Sheriff Hierholzer. People 21 in charge of certain annexes, again, aren't necessarily in 22 charge of the people associated with that annex. They're in 23 charge of coordinating the agencies and people and 24 organizations that are part of that annex to make sure that 25 that particular function is accomplished. So, to answer 9-26-05 183 1 your question, evacuation is Chief Young's people. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I see. It's just a -- it 3 seems odd to me to have -- in that type of situation, I 4 understand the responsibility to coordinate, but why 5 wouldn't you move it -- it would make more sense to me -- I 6 don't want to give Rusty any more work; he's going to want 7 more money, but it would make more sense to me for the 8 Sheriff to be responsible for it, and let the Sheriff then 9 work with the City, 'cause the city is part of the county, 10 as opposed to the other way around. I think that -- I don't 11 know Chief Young, but I would think that the Sheriff of Kerr 12 County is always going to be in a better position to 13 understand the entire county's makeup and situation and road 14 situation more than the Chief of Kerrville Police 15 Department. It just -- doesn't make any difference. 16 MR. BEAVERS: We have to have somebody in 17 charge. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 19 MR. BEAVERS: And that covers two cities and 20 the county. This was all decided 25 years ago. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. I guess that I -- 22 my question is, it was decided for whatever reason 25 years 23 ago. Has it been looked at, if we are doing it in the 24 proper way, in 25 years from the annex division standpoint? 25 MR. BEAVERS: I believe we're doing it in a 9-26-05 184 1 proper way. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not trying to -- not 3 saying anything negative. I just want to make sure we have 4 the best setup in Kerr County that we feel we have today, 5 not the best setup we thought we had 25 years ago. 6 MR. BEAVERS: I believe that part of that may 7 be when Raymond Holloway, the Fire Chief, was made the 8 coordinator, and he's pretty much in charge of the 9 operational issues to be in contact with Judge Tinley and 10 the two mayors and the city managers; that it was probably 11 felt that it might be better to have people in charge of the 12 annexes that also possibly work with the City, as they have 13 a day-to-day, face-to-face type relationship. This is 14 just -- maybe. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maybe, okay. All right. 16 MR. BEAVERS: And that way, the -- you know, 17 they work together daily. You know, the City of Kerrville 18 has roughly half the population of the county. I know that 19 if we're going to evacuate certain areas of the county, that 20 Chief Young would obviously work with Sheriff Hierholzer, 21 because that's the only way that that's going to, you know, 22 function appropriately. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I mean, this -- 24 this accomplished exactly what I was hoping, that we get a 25 discussion about emergency management. I appreciate you 9-26-05 185 1 coming over, Mark. And, you know, I really didn't want to 2 get -- probably got into more depth than I really had hoped 3 today, but I think it's something that we need to, on an 4 annual, biannual basis, get this before us, and hopefully 5 the City Council, City of Ingram, as well as the City of 6 Kerrville, because I think this is a -- it's an area that we 7 hopefully never have to use, but we are, as elected 8 officials, responsible for it, and after-the-fact is too 9 late. We need to make sure that we're up to speed every 10 day. 11 MR. BEAVERS: We're required to be up to 12 speed every day, and the State makes sure that we are; I 13 assure you of that. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, thanks. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: As a matter of fact, I might 16 mention that we had some training -- mandatory training that 17 was scheduled for the month of September at -- they gave us 18 three different dates, and here came the hurricanes, and all 19 three of them had to get scrapped. So, now we got to go 20 back and -- and reschedule that. 21 MR. BEAVERS: Exactly. That's the National 22 Incident Management System. Everybody -- elected officials 23 and department heads, et cetera, have to have that training. 24 Also, I appreciated your participation in our last drill 25 that we had back in February, our W.M.D., Weapons of Mass 9-26-05 186 1 Destruction drill that we had. It was quite a success. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Lots of people don't realize 3 the -- the number of potential participants we have. All 4 the -- all the health people, for example, the state 5 agencies that get involved because of different scenarios 6 that come into play. And it was -- it was quite 7 enlightening. I appreciated that opportunity. 8 MR. BEAVERS: Thank you. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you for being here. 10 Let's go to Item 20, if we might, consider, discuss, and 11 approve resolution for cooperation between the Kerr County 12 Commissioners Court and the City of Kerrville City Council. 13 Commissioner Letz? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. I put this on the 15 agenda and I, over the weekend, drafted a resolution, and 16 then I forwarded it to my wordsmither, Commissioner 17 Williams, to let him clean up my poor grammar and -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can I have a copy? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- make it read and look 20 better. We have copies here for members of the Court. I 21 had to print it in big type because I couldn't read the 22 small type. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm assuming this is 24 it. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is it? 9-26-05 187 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Let me read it; it's not 2 too long. Resolution. Whereas Kerr County and the City of 3 Kerrville participate in various joint operations, 4 joint-ownership, and mutually beneficial contracts with each 5 other, including, but not limited to, Kerrville/Kerr County 6 Municipal Airport, Recycling Center, Animal Control 7 contract, EMS, fire contracts, ETJ development, emergency -- 8 excuse me -- emergency management and others -- we need to 9 add back into this paragraph the library. That whereas is 10 deleted out. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Whereas such joint 13 cooperation is mutually beneficial to the taxpayers of Kerr 14 County and the City of Kerrville, and whereas open 15 communication, mutual discussion, and sharing of information 16 is vital to improve a positive and cooperative attitude 17 between the City and the County; now, therefore, be it 18 resolved that the Kerr County Commissioners Court reaffirms 19 its support for all joint operations, joint-ownership, and 20 mutually beneficial contracts with the City of Kerrville, 21 including, but not limited to: Butt-Holdsworth Library, 22 Kerrville/Kerr County Municipal Airport, Recycling Center, 23 Animal Control contract, EMS and fire contracts, ETJ 24 development, and emergency management; and be it further 25 resolved that Kerr County Commissioners Court calls upon the 9-26-05 188 1 mayor and the City Council to resume the practice of 2 biannual joint meeting to be held in January and June of 3 each year and other such times as are mutually beneficial to 4 discuss the above-mentioned matters and other mutually 5 beneficial initiatives; and be it further resolved that Kerr 6 County Commissioners Court calls upon the mayor and the City 7 Council to join in developing long-term resolution to 8 funding issues for the Butt-Holdsworth Library, including 9 the formation of a county-wide library district; and be it 10 further resolved that Kerr County Commissioners Court calls 11 upon the mayor and the City Council to join in participating 12 with our special ad hoc committee to examine funding and 13 other issues relating to current EMS system; and be it 14 further resolved that Kerr County Commissioners Court calls 15 upon the mayor/City Council to join in the immediate 16 finalization of an ETJ development agreement required by 17 state law to be in place no later than January 2006; and be 18 it further resolved that Kerr County Commissioners Court 19 calls upon the mayor and City Council to join in adopting a 20 similar resolution acknowledging the City's commitment to 21 continuation of joint operations, joint ownership, and 22 mutually beneficial contracts, and joins with the 23 Commissioners Court in addressing issues related to the 24 aforementioned four specific items. Adopted this 26th day 25 of September, 2005. And I'll make a motion that we adopt 9-26-05 189 1 such resolution, with the addition of the airport in the 2 first "whereas" -- I mean, excuse me, library in the first 3 "whereas." 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I second. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 6 adoption of the resolution as modified. Questions or 7 discussion? I would make one suggestion. In the second 8 "Resolved" paragraph, resume the practice of "biannual." 9 That's similar to the biannual budget, which is every two 10 years. I think we need to either say semiannual or 11 twice-hyphen-annual joint meetings. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Should be semi, 13 Judge. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: With that correction, a little 17 language clean up -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you, Judge. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 20 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 21 your right hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's 9-26-05 190 1 see if we can kind of get back to where we were. Item 14, 2 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to correct 3 Court Order Number 29360 due to a ministerial mistake. The 4 agenda posting and court order stated Lot 34A when, in fact, 5 it was Lot 39A. Publication for public notice backup 6 material and revision of the plat was for Lot 39A, Kerrville 7 Country Estates, Section Two, Volume 6, Page 109. Well, 8 where's Mr. Odom when you need him? 9 MS. MITCHELL: Still talking with those 10 people. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: I think I can probably address 12 that. Mr. Odom's office contacted me, and the agenda item 13 referred to that; therefore, I made the announcement off of 14 the agenda item, and the court order came out. All of the 15 backup information, the plat -- the plat, itself, and the -- 16 the public notice had the right language in it as being 39A. 17 So, I checked with the County Attorney, and he said it was 18 just a ministerial mistake and we could correct it by court 19 order, and so that's why it was placed on the agenda. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're rescinding the 21 old order? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: We just ministerially correct 23 the old order so that it refers to Lot 39A instead of Lot 24 34A. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You need a motion to 9-26-05 191 1 do so, or you just do it? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Pardon? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you need a motion 4 to do it, or do you just do it? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I think it would be 6 helpful if the Court took the appropriate action to -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 10 approval of the agenda item. Any question or discussion? 11 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 12 hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. That takes 17 us to Item 15, consider, discuss, and take appropriate 18 action to select a process for naming the members of the 19 Library Advisory Board to be selected by the Kerr County 20 Commissioners Court. Commissioner Nicholson? 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I put this on the 22 agenda so we could begin the process of planning about how 23 we name the two members of the new library board that the 24 Court will have responsibility for. And I don't really have 25 a proposal. Several of you have been in the business of 9-26-05 192 1 selecting and naming members to boards for a long time. And 2 I haven't -- one thing that does occur to me is I'm not real 3 comfortable with the process of inviting a number of people 4 to -- to nominate themselves for a task such as this, and 5 then going back to those people and say sorry, you weren't 6 selected. That doesn't feel good to me. So, what's your 7 pleasure? How do you want to go about identifying and 8 selecting our two members to the library board? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, it's pretty 10 simple to me. I have -- I have one gentleman from my 11 precinct that's interested and extremely qualified, and I 12 just assume that you adopt it and go on. What's wrong with 13 that? (Laughter.) 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, that would 15 give us five members. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is there a problem 17 with that deal? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think at another -- you 19 know, at a future meeting, preferably -- we can deal with 20 one today if we want. You know, at our first meeting in 21 October, my preference would be that we come with names, if 22 we so choose. I have some ideas of people, I think from the 23 eastern part of the county, that would be good 24 representatives, but I don't know if they have the interest 25 in doing it at this point. But I think we just kind of 9-26-05 193 1 bring several names and make the selection, and I would say 2 we should do it at our first meeting in October. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Do you want any 4 documentation? If I've got somebody I want to nominate, do 5 you want me to bring some documentation? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. I think serving 7 on boards is a good resumé, you know, "I served on the board 8 of this and that" kind of thing. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think they need to -- 10 the person can write a letter or resumé, or you can write a 11 summary. I think there needs to be something. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. So, I'll -- 13 I'll get that on our next meeting agenda. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Why don't we take about a 16 quick five- to ten-minute recess and give our reporter a 17 break, and we'll get the rest of it finished up in short 18 order afterwards, hopefully. We'll be in recess. 19 (Recess taken from 2:02 p.m. to 2:11 p.m.) 20 - - - - - - - - - - 21 (Commissioner Letz left the meeting.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to 23 order, if we might. We were in recess for a short period, 24 and we will resume our Commissioners Court meeting this 25 date. We'll go to Item 17, consider and discuss approval of 9-26-05 194 1 resolution or other action to participate in the Indigent 2 Defense Grant Program and authorize County Judge to sign the 3 same. This has to do with the -- the Court-appointed 4 attorneys for indigent defendants, and this is -- there was 5 prior authorization to apply to the Indigent Defense Grant 6 Program. That's an annual thing that we do every year. 7 This resolution says we'll comply with the conditions of the 8 grant, and our Auditor is the one that primarily rides herd 9 on that. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 13 approval of the resolution, and authorize County Judge to 14 sign the same. Any question or discussion? All in favor of 15 the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We'll 20 move to Item 18, consider, discuss, and take appropriate 21 action on purchase of new Odyssey software package from 22 Software Group and authorize County Judge to sign contracts 23 for purchase of same. And here's our I.T. Director, 24 Mr. Trolinger. 25 MR. TROLINGER: I believe you have in your 9-26-05 195 1 backup the copies of the contracts. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't have it. 3 MR. TROLINGER: If you care to -- did you get 4 those out, Jannett? 5 MS. PIEPER: Is this it? 6 MR. TROLINGER: We have the originals here. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I got ours, but I 8 don't have yours. 9 MS. PIEPER: I have the originals. 10 MR. TROLINGER: The County Attorney's 11 reviewed them. I've gone to the department heads, made sure 12 we have all the right pieces, all the T's are crossed, I's 13 are dotted. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All I need to know is, 15 has the County Attorney signed off on it? 16 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, he has. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't have to sit 18 here and read the whole thing. Long as he's happy with it, 19 I'm happy with it. 20 MR. TROLINGER: County Attorney had about a 21 dozen points, and we reviewed those and modified the 22 contract in one case, added a -- added a short piece of text 23 and addressed the rest of the issues. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I believe the Auditor 25 advised us that the funding for this begins in the '06-'07 9-26-05 196 1 budget; is that correct? 2 MR. TROLINGER: That is correct. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: The funding for the 4 retirement of the debt. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. Thank you. 6 MR. TROLINGER: You're welcome. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions with 8 regard to this particular matter? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and a second 12 for approval of the agenda item. All in favor of the 13 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You mean we got out of 19 that thing without a presentation? That's a great -- 20 MR. TYLER: I know how much you love those. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's a great day. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It is a great day. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah, we don't have 24 to pay for it this year; we'll have lots of money next year. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We'll have some 9-26-05 197 1 demonstrations too, aren't we? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move to Item 19, if we 3 might, consider and discuss and approve the contract between 4 Kerr County and Hart Intercivic for the eSlate, and 5 authorize the County Judge to sign the same. This deals 6 with the Help America Vote Act requirements. 7 MS. PIEPER: Right. This is our eSlate with 8 Hart Intercivic. Y'all had did an order earlier for me and 9 the County Attorney to negotiate the contract, and this is 10 the contract. County Attorney had two issues on this. One 11 of them was about our taxes. He just had a question on if 12 we're tax exempt, so we have to forward our tax-exempt 13 number to Hart. And then he had a question on late charges, 14 because it says that if we're 30 days late in paying them, 15 that we have to pay 1 percent per month of the maximum rate, 16 and I called the Secretary of the State to find out how 17 quick we would get our grant money, and they said within 18 three days. So -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Does this -- are we in 20 compliance with all state rules? Regulations? Laws? 21 MS. PIEPER: Yes, we are. With this, we will 22 be, yes. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which would be a 24 total price of $287,752.50. Is that correct? 25 MS. PIEPER: That's correct. 9-26-05 198 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And that is the 2 number that comports to the amount of money that the 3 Secretary of State gave us? 4 MS. PIEPER: Yes. Yeah, that was one of the 5 things I had to call them and tell them that they were 6 charging us too much money, and we could only pay what we 7 were being funded from the state. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And they agreed to 9 that? 10 MS. PIEPER: Well, they had to do some cuts. 11 They cut -- we had eight -- we were going to normally have 12 12 days of a project manager on-site, but they knocked that 13 down to eight, and then they were also going to do a voter 14 education. Instead of them doing that, I will do it. 15 They're going to send me a disk that got -- that has 16 pamphlets on it that I can just print out, rather than them 17 driving down here with a box-load of pamphlets. I believe 18 they also had cut out one or two laser printers, which we 19 have laser printers in the office, so they did some little 20 cuts. It's nothing major. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So we're in balance? 22 MS. PIEPER: So we're in balance. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I didn't move it; you 9-26-05 199 1 moved it. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, I did? Let's see. 3 I move we approve the contract between Kerr County and Hart 4 Intercivic for eSlate and authorize County Judge to sign the 5 same. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 8 approval of the agenda item. Any question or discussion? 9 All in favor -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just a question. 11 When will they have that in, Jannett? 12 MS. PIEPER: I'm supposed to have it by 13 January 1. Whether or not I'm trained on it by then is a 14 different story, but we will have -- we will be using it for 15 our March primary. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, thank you. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 18 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 19 your right hand. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Unless 24 I missed something, gentlemen, that gets us through all of 25 our agenda items. Do we have any items that we need to go 9-26-05 200 1 into executive session concerning? 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I would like to give an 3 update on two litigation issues, if you would like to hear 4 it at this time, or we can wait till next time. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Why don't we go ahead and 6 finish up our routine items and then come back to that, if 7 we might? Anybody on the Court have any problem with that? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where's our County 11 Attorney? 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: He was in a hearing. He 13 was in a hearing he had to go to. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Why don't we go to the 15 approval agenda, if we might. Mr. Auditor? 16 MR. TOMLINSON: Just don't ask any questions 17 about the bills. They're downstairs in the -- in the other 18 courtroom. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move we pay the 20 bills. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, that's right. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to 25 pay the bills. Any question or discussion? All in favor of 9-26-05 201 1 the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 2 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 4 (No response.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Budget 6 Amendment Request Number 1. 7 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 1 is -- is for the 8 Auditor's office. I'm requesting a transfer of $1,717.24 9 from Part-Time Salaries to Operating Equipment to upgrade 10 two computers for this year for our new accounting system. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move to approve. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: That's part of the package 13 that you just approved. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 16 approval of Budget Amendment Request Number 1. Any question 17 or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 18 raising your right hand. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Budget 23 Amendment Request Number 2. 24 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 2 is for the District 25 Clerk. Her request is to transfer $709.66 from Part-Time 9-26-05 202 1 Salaries to Employee Training. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move to approve. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 6 approval of Budget Amendment Request Number 2. Any question 7 or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 8 raising your right hand. 9 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Budget 13 Amendment Request Number 3. 14 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. Number 3 is for 15 Indigent Health Care. This requires the Court to declare an 16 emergency and increase the budget out of surplus funds in 17 Indigent Health Care. We have bills for -- totaling 18 $28,978.46, and payments to our third-party administrator of 19 $1,304.03. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tommy, if we were 21 going to go with one of your recent plans of you doing some 22 of the things that the third-party administrator does, are 23 we under contract with them? I mean, will that decrease? 24 Or -- 25 MR. TOMLINSON: We have a contract -- well, 9-26-05 203 1 no, we don't really have a contract with them at the present 2 time. It's month-to-month. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, will there -- will 4 there -- will the numbers decrease because we're removing 5 some of their workload? Or -- 6 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. Well, the payment of 7 the eligible expenses may not decrease, but the payments to 8 the third-party administrator will go away. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Totally? Totally go 10 away, so you'll totally take over their function? 11 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If you know, Tommy, 14 we're closing out the budget year now, and this is an 15 expense -- an extension of funds of about $30,000. What is 16 the total amount we've spent on Indigent Health care 17 to-date, if you know? 18 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, it's 708,827.77. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 708,8 -- 20 MR. TOMLINSON: -27.77. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: $708,000. 22 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, now, that -- that was 25 going into this amendment. 9-26-05 204 1 MR. TOMLINSON: That's right. Went in -- for 2 total year-to-date, add the 28,000 to that. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Bottom line -- 4 MR. TOMLINSON: About 740,000. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Bottom line is, our 6 indigent health care cost year-to-date is about $770,000. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the number I 8 was looking for. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, yeah. That is what we 10 have budgeted for next year, and that may not be adequate. 11 MR. TOMLINSON: This is the last -- this is 12 the last bill for this year. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: There won't be any last half 14 of the month coming in after the 1st of October? 15 MR. TOMLINSON: There's no one in -- the last 16 person that was our -- at Sid Pete resigned. There's no one 17 over there right now to process any -- any invoices, so -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's one way to stop 19 it. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Would that have been a 21 solution from day one? (Laughter.) 22 MR. TOMLINSON: So -- so I really can't give 23 you a solid answer to that question. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: If that would solve the 25 problem, I wish I'd have known that a long time ago. 9-26-05 205 1 MR. TOMLINSON: Potentially, I mean, it could 2 be -- you know, our potential lability could be -- could be 3 between 900,000, I mean, and a million dollars, because 4 our -- our liability is 8 percent of our tax levy, which 5 includes our sales tax. So, for all the tax -- ad valorem 6 tax we levy, we have to add to that the almost $3 million in 7 sales tax. And then you take, you know, 8 percent of that 8 number to get what our potential liability is for this 9 program. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval of 11 Budget Amendment Request Number 3 for 30,282.49, declare an 12 emergency and move the funds from Number 50, surplus funds. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to 15 declare an emergency and approve Budget Amendment Request 16 Number 3. Any question or discussion? All in favor of the 17 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 18 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Budget 22 Amendment Request Number 4. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. Number 4 is for 24 Extension office from Roy Walston. He's requesting a 25 transfer of $1,000 from Conference line item and 525.23 from 9-26-05 206 1 Office Supplies, for $1,104 to go into Capital Outlay for a 2 projector for his office and $421.23 for Operating 3 Equipment. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, what he's doing 5 here is we're down to the end of the budget year, and he's 6 running now to spend the money that he hasn't spent up to 7 this point. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Way it looks. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What's the 10 projector? 11 MR. TOMLINSON: I'm assuming that it's a 12 slide projector of some sort. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Power Point type. 14 MR. TOMLINSON: Power Point. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you think it's a 16 Power Point? 17 MR. TOMLINSON: It doesn't say that, but -- 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Judging from the cost, it's 19 more than just an ordinary plain vanilla 35-millimeter 20 slide. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: Here's the model number on 22 here. And so I can't tell by that number what it is. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 1,100. What do you 24 think? Do you think it's a Power Point? 25 MR. TROLINGER: Don't know. I don't know 9-26-05 207 1 from the model number. I just took a peek at it. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I tell you what, 3 it wouldn't hurt anything to have another -- Rusty has one. 4 Wouldn't hurt anything to have one in our county system that 5 we could use occasionally. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What group? 7 Commissioners Court? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Everybody has 9 one but us. Did we get a motion and second or -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not yet. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for approval. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 14 approval of Budget Amendment Request Number 4. Any question 15 or discussion? All in favor of that motion, signify by 16 raising your right hand. 17 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Do we 21 have any late bills? 22 MR. TOMLINSON: That's all I have. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: No late bills or hand checks. 24 Wonderful. I have been tendered monthly reports for Justice 25 of the Peace, Precinct 4; Justice of the Peace, Precinct 1, 9-26-05 208 1 Amended; and County Clerk, Trust. Do I hear a motion that 2 these reports be approved as submitted? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 6 approval of the designated reports as submitted. Any 7 question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify 8 by raising your right hand. 9 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Do we 13 have any reports from members of the Court in connection 14 with their assignments to various liaison functions? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir, I do not. 16 Thank you. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, sir. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any department heads or 20 elected officials have any reports they wish to render at 21 this time? Hearing none, we've got other reports that are 22 tendered to us on a periodic basis. It appears that we're 23 back to the closed/executive session items that the Sheriff 24 had requested, and possibly the County Attorney; I'm not 25 sure if we have others from him on possibly the litigation. 9-26-05 209 1 So, at this time, we will go out of open session at 2:31. 2 (The open session was closed at 2:31 p.m., and an Executive Session was held, the 3 transcript of which is contained in a separate document.) 4 - - - - - - - - - - 5 (Discussion off the record.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We will -- we will go 7 back into open session at -- did I say we went out of closed 8 at 2:38? Actually, I meant to say -- I mean 2:36. It is 9 now 2:37. Having gone out of closed session at 2:36, we're 10 back in open session at 2:37. Anybody have anything else to 11 come before the court at this time? Hearing nothing, we 12 will stand adjourned. 13 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 2:37 p.m.) 14 - - - - - - - - - - 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 9-26-05 210 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 5 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 6 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 7 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 3rd day of October, 8 2005. 9 10 11 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 12 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 13 Certified Shorthand Reporter 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 9-26-05