1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Regular Session 10 Tuesday, October 11, 2005 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 DAVE NICHOLSON, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X October 11, 2005 2 PAGE --- Commissioners' Comments 5 3 1.1 Appoint Presiding Judge/Manager, Tabulation 4 Supervisor, and Assistant Supervisor for November election 8 5 1.2 Authorization for advertising of proposals on electrical, plumbing, HVAC and pest control 10 6 1.3 Authorize County Judge to sign TCDRS No Plan Change Notice & Rate Acknowledgement for 2006 11 7 1.4 Authorize appropriate action on cash flow problem in the Juvenile Detention Facility 12, 173 8 1.6 Discussion/approval of encroachment of septic system drainfield lines into 7' recorded utility 9 easement at Lot 15 of Cedar Ridge Subdivision 30 1.5 Authorize appropriate action on ASO Appeal Review 10 request 32 1.7 Concept plan for The Heights at Greenwood, Pct. 4 33 11 1.9 Consider/discuss concept and proposal by Kerr County Mounted Peace Officers Association for 12 construction of multi-use facility adjacent to Kerr County Law Enforcement Center 53 13 1.8 Set public hearing for revision of plat of Kerrville Ranchettes, Tracts 8, 9 & 10 70 14 1.10 Set public hearing for Revision of Plat for The Horizon, Section One, Lots No. 21 & 22 71 15 1.11 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to reserve the name of "Las Colinas of Kerrville" 16 for a community planned in Pct. 1 72 1.12 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action for 17 subdividing a 2-acre lot into two 1-acre parcels with shared driveway 79 18 1.13 adopt the National Incident Management System (NIMS) as the standard for incident management 84 19 1.14 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on Memorandum of Understanding between AACOG, Kerr 20 County Sheriff's Department, and Kerr County Commissioners' Court to establish guidelines for 21 AACOG Regional Law Enforcement Academy Distance Learning Site 88 22 1.15 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on acceptance of RFQ's 95 23 1.16 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to rescind Court Order No. 29414 adopting Kerr County 24 Tax rate for FY 2005/2006, such order having been superseded by Court Order No. 29415 104 25 3 1 I N D E X (Continued) October 11, 2005 2 PAGE 1.17 Consider/discuss nominations to serve on the 3 Library Advisory Board and make appointments to the Library Advisory Board 104 4 1.18 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on problems with new air conditioning at the Hill 5 Country Youth Exhibition Center 114 1.19 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 6 Authorize County Treasurer to prepare bid package of Employee Health Benefits for provision of 7 Insurance Agent/Services 124 1.20 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 8 engage Pressler Thompson & Co. to perform audit for fiscal year ending September 30, 2005 152 9 1.21 Approval of contract between Office of Court Administration and Kerr County 154 10 1.22 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to nominate up to 5 candidates for submission to 11 Kerr Central Appraisal District 158 12 4.1 Pay Bills 162 4.2 Budget Amendments 168 13 4.3 Late Bills --- 14 5.1 Reports from Commissioners/Liaison Committee Assignments 187 15 4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 194 16 1.23 Reports from the following Departments: 17 Animal Control --- Extension Office --- 18 Environmental Health 205 Juvenile Detention Facility 209 19 --- Adjourned 218 20 21 22 23 24 25 4 1 On Tuesday, October 11, 2005, at 9:00 a.m., a regular 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in the 3 Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville, 4 Texas, and the following proceedings were had in open court: 5 P R O C E E D I N G S 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, ladies and 7 gentlemen. Let me call to order the regularly scheduled 8 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court scheduled for 9 this date and time, Tuesday, October the 11th, 2005, at 10 9 a.m. It is just past that now. Commissioner Nicholson? 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Join me in prayer 12 and then the pledge of allegiance, please. 13 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. At this time, if 15 there's any member of the audience or the public that wishes 16 to be heard on any matter that is not a listed agenda item, 17 this is your opportunity. If you wish to be heard on a 18 listed agenda item, we would ask that you fill out a 19 participation form. Those forms should be at the back of 20 the room there. And if you'll fill one of those out and see 21 that it gets up here so that hopefully I won't miss you when 22 that item comes up and we can be sure and recognize you, but 23 at this point in time, if there's any member of the public 24 or the audience that wishes to be heard on any matter that 25 is not a listed agenda item, please feel free to come 10-11-05 5 1 forward at this time and tell us what's on your mind. 2 Seeing no one coming forward, we will move on to the next 3 order of business. Commissioner Nicholson, do you have 4 anything for us this morning? 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Got good rain in 6 west Kerr County; probably got as much as Kerrville did, at 7 least. And I think all four precincts now have lifted the 8 burn ban. People need to be careful. We had a fire after 9 the first rain out at the Bass Ranch, so it's -- grass is 10 still dry and ground is still cracked. Other than that, 11 everything's okay in west Kerr County. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Dittos in the south 14 part of Kerrville. Had good rains starting early this 15 morning, and lifted the burn ban. People can burn, 16 including myself. That's about it, other than Tivy won, 17 Texas won, and the Cowboys won. It doesn't get any better 18 than this. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Spurs lost, though. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Spurs lost, yeah. So 21 what? (Laughter.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: That all? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's it. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Williams? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I echo all that, 10-11-05 6 1 Judge, but I do have something here, a little presentation 2 for my colleague on Precinct 4. It's from the Office of 3 Rural Community Affairs, and it's a check for $1,652 to go 4 to the Y.O. Ranch Volunteer Fire Department. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Turn it around. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Turn it around. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think I see your 8 heavy hand in that, Commissioner. And we appreciate it. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Whatever. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thank you. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, sir, that's it. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: You can't top that one? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, I can, but I'll 15 do it tonight. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What about us? What 18 about the other precincts? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm going to take 20 care of those other fellows down the street tonight. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Nicholson noted 23 that he thought he saw Commissioner Williams' heavy hand in 24 that coming out of Office of Rural Community Affairs. 25 Commissioner Letz, what do you got for us this morning? 10-11-05 7 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The only comment I have 2 is more to the Commissioners, probably, than the public, but 3 I think it's interesting that Ambassador Slutz will be in 4 Kerrville Friday night. I would encourage everyone on the 5 Court to attend. And it's been not well publicized, that 6 I've seen, but the reason she's coming is that -- she's the 7 Ambassador to Mongolia, and that will explain why I'm 8 somewhat familiar with why she's coming, because my wife 9 serves as the administrative -- or head of the office for 10 the Mongolian consulate in Comfort, which is -- there's one 11 in Comfort, one in Houston -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We have a lot of 13 traffic in that consulate. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Actually, there is a lot 15 of traffic, a lot of foreign traffic in the Comfort 16 consulate office in Mongolia. And Ambassador Slutz 17 requested some western art, which is very similar to what 18 the terrain in Mongolia is, when she was appointed by 19 President Bush. And the Cowboy Artists Museum loaned her 20 western art, and she's coming -- that's kind of the reason 21 she's coming, is kind of a thank you, and maybe get -- maybe 22 exchanging out some art; I'm not sure. But -- and I believe 23 she's working on -- or they're working on doing a Mongolian 24 art exhibit here. So, anyway, I encourage everyone on the 25 Court to go. I think it's not often we have an Ambassador 10-11-05 8 1 come into Kerrville, and this is an interesting 2 relationship. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: When is that? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Friday evening at 6:00. 5 And I asked Kathy to look into it a little bit more. We 6 received invitations, but they're kind of, I mean, very -- 7 it's been under the radar screen, from what I can see. And 8 I don't know if it's a -- you know, if they're trying to get 9 a large -- or if it's a relatively small group, but I know 10 members of the Court were invited. I encourage all to 11 attend. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: That it? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Good rains. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: The Museum of Western Art, I 15 believe, is the one that's actually sponsoring that 16 particular reception, and as Commissioner Letz says, it has 17 a -- has a connection to the -- an exchange of art idea. I 18 think the -- the Executive Director of that Museum of 19 Western Art, for some reason, was in Mongolia, and the -- 20 through the consular office and the Ambassador's office, 21 received an extraordinarily warm welcome and a lot of 22 courtesies extended to him, and so they're wanting to 23 reciprocate on this end, make sure that that same warm 24 reception is given to -- to those individuals. 25 Let's get on with the business at hand. The 10-11-05 9 1 first item on the agenda is to consider, discuss, and take 2 appropriate action to appoint the presiding judge or 3 manager, the tabulation supervisor, and the assistant 4 supervisor as per Texas Election Code, Chapter 127, for the 5 November election. Ms. Pieper? 6 MS. PIEPER: Gentlemen, this will be for the 7 central counting station election night. I believe I gave 8 you a handout that is recommended for me for presiding 9 manager and the judge, Nadene Alford for the tabulating 10 supervisor, and Cheryl Thompson for the assistant. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for approval. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 14 approval of the agenda item. Any question or discussion? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One question. What's the 16 resolution board? 17 MS. PIEPER: That's in case there are 18 over-votes. Then the ballot goes to the resolution board 19 and they try to determine the voter's vote. If they cannot 20 determine the voter's vote, then that over-vote is 21 completely taken out. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 24 discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion, 25 signify by raising your right hand. 10-11-05 10 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's 5 move to Item 2; consider, discuss, and authorization for 6 advertising of proposals on electrical, plumbing, HVAC, and 7 pest control. Is Mr. Holekamp here? Yes, sir. 8 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes. I think the notice is 9 pretty much self-explanatory. This is the same thing we did 10 the last two years. I have a deadline or dates that -- to 11 publish in the newspaper to -- for 5 p.m., to be in here on 12 November the 10th, to be opened at 10 a.m. on the 14th, 13 which is the, I think, first meeting of November. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll move that we 15 authorize the Maintenance and -- or Maintenance Supervisor 16 to go out for bids -- annual bids for electrical, plumbing, 17 HVAC, and pest control services. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 20 authorization and approval of the agenda item. Any question 21 or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 22 raising your right hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 10-11-05 11 1 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. The 2 next item is to consider, discuss, and authorize the County 3 Judge to sign the T.C.D.R.S. No Plan Change Notice and Rate 4 Acknowledgment for the 2006 plan year. Ms. Nemec? 5 MS. NEMEC: Yes. Good morning. I have the 6 original No Plan Change Notice. Our contribution rate for 7 this next coming year will be 7.60 plus .28 for the 8 supplemental death benefit that is in place. And we just -- 9 just a formality for the County Judge to sign. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval and 11 authorize the County Judge to sign same. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 14 approval of the agenda item. Any further question or 15 discussion? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have a question, 17 Judge. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, sir? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Barbara, the 20 contribution rate, the employee -- the 7.60, what is it 21 presently? 22 MS. NEMEC: 7.92. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 24 MS. NEMEC: Plus .28 percent for the 25 supplemental, so it's at 8.1 -- 8 total. 10-11-05 12 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Does that include the 3 cost-of-living adjustment that we made for seniors? 4 MS. NEMEC: That was only approved last year. 5 That was just for last year. That was a one-time 6 cost-of-living. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That doesn't carry 8 forward? 9 MS. NEMEC: Hmm-mm. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okey-dokey. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or 13 discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion, 14 signify by raising your right hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. The 19 next item on the agenda is to consider, discuss, and 20 authorize appropriate action on cash flow problem in the 21 Juvenile Detention Facility. 22 MS. NEMEC: Okay. For the last payroll, the 23 transfer payroll -- transfer for the Juvenile Detention 24 Facility was a little over $81,000. The balance in that 25 fund is right now, and was at that time, at 32,000. The 10-11-05 13 1 employees did get paid. There -- and the reason that they 2 were able to get paid is because we have escrow checks that 3 aren't due, insurance payments and things like that that 4 aren't due till the 15th of this month, so their checks were 5 able to clear our account. But once those checks go out, 6 then there is isn't going to be enough funds in the payroll 7 account, and so we need to transfer some money to take care 8 of that payroll. And then accounts payable, today, they 9 have close to $5,000 in bills that need to be paid today. 10 And then, of course, we have another payroll on Friday that 11 will have to be met also. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If you know, what's 13 the amount of accounts receivable due to the juvenile center 14 for August and September? 15 MS. NEMEC: Becky might be able to answer 16 that. 17 MS. HARRIS: I turn that in to the Auditor at 18 the first of every month. I know what it is for September. 19 I don't remember what it is for August, but I know what it 20 is for September. 21 MS. NEMEC: Do you have that figure, Mindy? 22 MS. WILLIAMS: No. I can go get it. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- I mean, I 24 think the other part of this is, in the Treasurer's note, is 25 this is going to be an ongoing problem. We've budgeted a 10-11-05 14 1 deficit for that facility for about 279,000, I think we hope 2 to be. You know, I would think that we would put in, you 3 know, half that amount -- an amount so we don't have to do 4 this every meeting. I mean, we've budgeted it to be a 5 deficit. Why not fund that deficit? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Seems to me we 7 should, yeah. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean -- you know, and I 9 wouldn't say we do the whole amount, but I think, you know, 10 maybe do 100,000 or something -- you know, 120,000 or 11 something, you know, maybe close to half of it now. Then we 12 can look at it in again in six months. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't think I 14 understand the accounting process. Is the Juvenile 15 Detention Facility different than other departments? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's -- 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We have other 18 departments that have revenues and costs, so if we have a -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's stand-alone. It's 20 run as a stand-alone facility, as I understand it. Mindy 21 can probably -- 22 MS. NEMEC: It has a separate bank account 23 also, so that's where the cash flow problem is created, that 24 it's not supported by the general fund receipts. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. For it to get 10-11-05 15 1 money out of our reserves, it's got to go -- we have to put 2 money into it from the reserves. Whereas -- I mean, it 3 probably doesn't exist in other -- I mean, we don't -- 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The Sheriff doesn't 5 have a similar situation? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. No, he just has 7 money that just comes out of reserves for operating the 8 jail. Or any -- or any department. I mean, it just comes 9 out of our account. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What Barbara said 11 deserves a follow-up question. Why -- why is it separate? 12 Is that a throwback to before it was under the Kerr County 13 Commissioners Court? 14 MS. NEMEC: Correct. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or we just never 16 changed that? 17 MS. NEMEC: Right. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, why don't we 19 change that? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd rather keep it 21 separate. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, we want to keep 23 it separate so we can track it. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand that. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Keep an eye on the 10-11-05 16 1 numbers. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand that. I 3 agree with that. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I think the -- I 5 mean, I look at this as -- I mean, we budgeted it this way 6 in this year's budget, so we should -- you know, it 7 shouldn't be a surprise that we're going to have to fund a 8 deficit -- 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- every month. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's a cash flow 12 problem, is what it is. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Because at the end of the 14 year -- and if the projections that we received were 15 correct, that total deficit that we should have budgeted 16 should been 270,000 or 280,000. Wasn't that the number? 17 MS. HARRIS: 288. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It should be 288,000. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or less. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or -- well, or more. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Hopefully less. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Getting back to the 23 accounting issue again, is -- is the debt service paid out 24 of that account, or is it paid out of the general fund? 25 MS. WILLIAMS: The debt service will be out 10-11-05 17 1 of a different account. This is strictly the operating 2 account. And I do not have a copy of the September billing 3 summary. I think Mr. Tomlinson has it, but I didn't get a 4 copy. I think it's somewhere in the range of $80,000 to 5 $85,000. August, it looks like we've got maybe $25,000, 6 $30,000 that we haven't collected yet off the August 7 billing. 8 MS. HARRIS: The September billing is over 9 $100,000 for the month of September. It's in y'all's report 10 that I sent you on Friday. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, got it. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, to me, the issue 13 is, I mean, do we -- what is the amount we're going to 14 transfer in? 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We don't want to be 16 dealing with this every month. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Now that this is totally under 19 the -- the Commissioners Court purview, we budgeted funds, 20 so the funds are available for the operation. I can 21 understand, from an accounting standpoint, we want to be 22 able to, at any particular time, look at what those figures 23 are that are applicable to that facility. But from the 24 standpoint of the payment of -- of the bills, as long as 25 it's within the budget that we authorized, I'm -- I'm having 10-11-05 18 1 a hard time understanding why we're having to work on this 2 as a separate item. 3 MS. NEMEC: Well, I can't just take money 4 from the general account and transfer it to the Juvenile 5 Detention account without a court order. And there's -- 6 it's a cash flow problem; it's not a budgeting problem. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, what is the 8 amount you need in terms of -- 9 MS. NEMEC: I'm going to say at least -- 10 approximately 140,000. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- I mean, going 12 back to what -- and I don't think -- I think I may agree 13 with the Judge. When we approved the budget, we approved a 14 $288,000 deficit for that facility, with that money to come, 15 I mean, from our reserves. It would seem to me that that 16 action on the budget transferred that money. But, I mean, 17 you know -- 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We need an opinion 19 from the -- 20 MS. NEMEC: I prefer a court order, myself, 21 but it's up to y'all and the County Attorney if he feels 22 that's appropriate. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: The -- it's funded out of the 24 general fund, tax and non-tax revenues that -- 25 MS. NEMEC: We haven't collected those yet. 10-11-05 19 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I understand that. And 2 that's a cash flow item. Is -- is it uncommon that -- that 3 there weren't enough funds at the end of a fiscal year to 4 cover specific departments? Is this the first time that's 5 happened? 6 MS. NEMEC: No. No. We -- we've never had 7 -- as far as maybe budget line items, but not as far as the 8 cash in the bank account. That's why we're having the 9 problem, is the cash that is actually in that account at 10 Security State Bank. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, that's the 12 payroll account you're talking about? 13 MS. NEMEC: Right. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's not the 15 general operating account; that's the payroll account. 16 MS. NEMEC: Right -- well, it's their 17 operating account. It's Fund 76, operating account that 18 gets transferred into the payroll account for those checks 19 to clear. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: If I'm hearing you correctly, 22 you're relying solely upon the revenues that come into the 23 Juvenile Detention Facility operation to pay funds -- to pay 24 expenses, payroll and otherwise, applicable to that 25 operation; is that correct? 10-11-05 20 1 MS. NEMEC: Right. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Notwithstanding the fact that 3 the budget was approved beginning October 1 of this year in 4 which we allocated certain funds for that operation, as 5 opposed to certain anticipated revenues with a net operating 6 deficit? 7 MS. NEMEC: Right. I mean, the cash is just 8 not there. We just need to transfer the cash from 9 somewhere. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Is the cash in the -- in the 11 general fund? 12 MS. NEMEC: Yes. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 14 MS. NEMEC: The cash is in the general -- I'd 15 say yes, the cash is in the general fund, in that the Court 16 knew that there was going to be a deficit and that deficit 17 was going to have to come from somewhere. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 19 MS. NEMEC: And I guess at this time, that 20 deficit needs to come from the reserves in the general fund. 21 I mean, I don't know where y'all had planned to take that 22 from. I would guess that would be the only place. And in 23 order for me to do that, I need a court order. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And you -- what's the 25 amount that you -- 10-11-05 21 1 MS. NEMEC: I'd say approximately 140,000 2 would cover last payroll, this coming payroll, and the 3 accounts payable for today. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Does last payroll go on 5 -- it goes on last year? 6 MS. NEMEC: Mm-hmm. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Last budget year. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, that's two separate 9 things. One is for last year. I can see where you need to 10 do a transfer for last year. That's a budget amendment, 11 because that's not -- but for the current year, the next -- 12 the payroll due Friday is under the current budget. I think 13 we need to separate any transfers. So, what do we need for 14 -- to cover last payroll? 15 MS. NEMEC: Last payroll? I'm sorry, I need 16 my notes. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Am I thinking logically 18 here? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: I think so. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, I think you're 21 right. We're slopping over two budget years here. 22 MS. NEMEC: Okay. If someone has a 23 calculator up there, the balance -- well, this is today's 24 balance. It is $32,426.40. $32,426.40. The payroll 25 transfer for the end of the year was $81,304.72. 10-11-05 22 1 JUDGE TINLEY: 81,304? 2 MS. NEMEC: 81,304.72. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, why don't we wait 5 and let the Auditor and Treasurer come up with an exact 6 number during -- and we'll do it at the end of the meeting 7 or when we do budget amendments. I mean, we need to make 8 sure we're doing the exact right amount, and there's also 9 money coming in that needs to be balanced against this, I 10 believe. 11 MS. NEMEC: Well, there's money coming in, 12 but are we going to get it by Friday? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, but it's going to 14 balance. It's accrued. It's coming. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're talking about last 16 year. 17 MS. NEMEC: Oh, for last year? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's going to be some 19 money accrued to that, I think. I mean, I don't know how 20 y'all -- I don't know how the Auditor's -- 21 MS. WILLIAMS: The only problem I can see is, 22 with waiting on the revenues for August and September, we're 23 not going to get them in time to put them in the bank 24 account in order to cover the accounts payable transfer, the 25 payroll transfer, or the new payroll checks. Yes, the 10-11-05 23 1 money's out there, and yes, we will get it, but we don't 2 know when we're going to get it. If we had written the 3 payroll transfer check for the 30th of September's payroll, 4 that check out of the Juvenile Detention Facility account 5 would have bounced, big time. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mindy, when we get the -- 7 if we transfer whatever the cash amount -- I guess I'm 8 having a little bit of a problem understanding what we need 9 to keep from -- in the account from a cash standpoint versus 10 the budget amount. Now, we -- I can see we put the cash -- 11 and I can understand we need to have the cash in accounts so 12 all the checks clear for the juvenile facility, but once the 13 revenue comes in, it seems that the money needs to come back 14 out, back into the general fund again for last year. 15 MS. WILLIAMS: If they ever build up enough 16 of a surplus, yes. But at this point -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If we transfer funds 18 right now, at some point, the -- we're going to zero out 19 last year. 20 MS. WILLIAMS: Once we do all the 21 encumbrances, yes. In fact, accounts payable, the almost 22 5,000 that we've got right now, is all of last year's bills, 23 and we still have bills coming in for August and September, 24 so we won't be finished with that probably until the middle 25 of November. 10-11-05 24 1 JUDGE TINLEY: I get -- my question goes to a 2 broader scope. Are we talking about cash flow just in this 3 one function, or are we talking about cash flow generally in 4 the general operating account of the county? 5 MS. NEMEC: No, just the Juvenile Detention 6 Facility. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So, insofar as having 8 adequate funds in the general operating account for cash 9 flow purposes, there's absolutely no problem? 10 MS. NEMEC: No. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Never has been? 12 MS. NEMEC: No. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That goes back to my 15 accounting question, Judge. I agree with Commissioner 16 Baldwin; we want to keep a record of the costs and revenues 17 so we know how we're doing here. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: But I question the 20 necessity of having to have a separate payroll bank account 21 to do that. We can -- we can do both. We can treat the 22 juvenile facility like every other department and still know 23 where we stand on costs and revenue. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Frankly, I do too. I 25 think that doesn't make a lot of sense to have it separated. 10-11-05 25 1 We can still do the accounting. It can be broken out. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 'Cause, I mean, they're 3 County employees. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: So there's never been an 5 occasion where you have had to utilize separate segregated 6 accounts for -- for general accounting purposes? 7 MS. NEMEC: No. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We've done it. We've 9 never done it for employees. I mean, like -- I mean, like 10 the Schreiner Trust and things, we don't keep a balance in 11 that account. We transfer -- as I recall, we transfer money 12 into the bank and the trustee transfers it over, and then we 13 can spend it, you know. So -- but we don't ever have 14 employees in a situation like this anywhere else in the 15 budget. Or in -- 16 MS. WILLIAMS: I think at one time there was 17 discussion about taking the Juvenile Detention Facility cash 18 account, the bank account, and rolling it into the 19 Treasurer's account, which encompasses a lot of different 20 departments and funds. The only problem I see with that is 21 you can't keep real good track of it. If it's separated you 22 can, but the only problem is, we run into this same problem 23 where there's not enough money in the bank account and we 24 have obligations that we have to meet. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But don't we -- I mean, 10-11-05 26 1 through the accounting system and our fund system, you know, 2 everything that gets paid out gets charged to a fund, and 3 that -- if the juvenile facility has its own fund numbers, 4 it's going to get charged to that on the revenue side and on 5 the expenditure side. 6 MS. WILLIAMS: I mean, if it's the Court's 7 intention -- or if it's what y'all want, we have to have a 8 court order to consolidate the detention facility account in 9 with the Treasurer's. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Did you have -- Barbara, 11 is there a separate -- is the payroll account different than 12 all the other accounts or any other account, or is it just 13 one account you have? 14 MS. NEMEC: The payroll clearing account is 15 just one account. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean for employees -- 17 for -- you know, for all other employees, not counting the 18 juvenile facility, do you have a payroll clearing account? 19 MS. NEMEC: Yes, I have a payroll clearing 20 account that includes everybody's payroll, and when checks 21 are generated out of that payroll clearing account, then I 22 have to take money from the funds that pertain to that 23 payroll and deposit them in the payroll clearing account for 24 those checks to clear. And that's why I'm having a problem 25 with Fund 76. 10-11-05 27 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. So, we just need 2 to move -- I mean, to me, the long-term solution is to move 3 the employees in the juvenile facility into that same 4 system. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: I think they're already there. 6 Don't they come out of that same payroll account? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's a different payroll 8 account. 9 MS. NEMEC: No, they come out of the same 10 payroll account, but it's a different cash account than all 11 the other -- than the general fund. It's the cash account. 12 The money that -- the money is budgeted for this next coming 13 year. That's not the problem. The problem is that the 14 revenues in the juvenile detention facility aren't coming in 15 fast enough to pay the expenses. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, but if they're 17 paid out of the same payroll account, why can't you make the 18 same transfer out of the budget -- I mean, using the budget 19 that we've adopted? 20 MS. NEMEC: 'Cause there's not money there. 21 The cash is not in there. 22 MS. WILLIAMS: It -- excuse me. If I may, it 23 would be like the employees for the 216th District 24 Attorney's office; they are paid through our payroll 25 clearing account, but the funds for their payroll and fringe 10-11-05 28 1 benefits and whatever come out of his separate checking 2 account. We have to write a check out of that to deposit it 3 into the payroll account in order to cover the payroll 4 checks and the fringe benefits that go along with it. The 5 detention facility is the same way as the 216th D.A. We 6 have to -- we have to write a check out of this account and 7 put it in the payroll clearing account so everything's 8 consolidated in one place. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where do the revenues 10 -- where do they go? 11 MS. WILLIAMS: Into the Juvenile Detention 12 Facility checking account at Security State Bank. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you have to do a 14 physical transfer out of that for all -- everything else? 15 MS. WILLIAMS: For accounts payable and for 16 payroll. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Isn't that a bit 18 cumbersome? 19 MS. WILLIAMS: It's the way it had been set 20 up. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's because it was 22 a separate operation before? 23 MS. WILLIAMS: Correct. Right. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Would it behoove us 25 to change that? 10-11-05 29 1 MS. WILLIAMS: If that's what the Court 2 wants. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, I mean would it 4 make sense to change that? 5 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, I think it probably 6 would. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Then I think we 8 should change it. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, let's get back 10 to the point of how much money do they want, and where are 11 we going to get it? Let's let them put their heads together 12 and come back and make a recommendation to us on exactly how 13 much money and where it's going to come from. 14 MS. NEMEC: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We'll do it under 17 budget transfers later. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: However, I don't care. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Nemec, the -- what I'm 20 hearing from you, the cash flow only arises on this one 21 particular situation, and it's not a matter of having 22 reserves tied up in -- or additional funds tied up in timed 23 deposit accounts rather than over in operating accounts or 24 something like that. 25 MS. NEMEC: Right. 10-11-05 30 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay, we'll come back 2 to that, I suppose, at the end of the -- end of the meeting. 3 Let's go to a timed item. We had it at 9:30; it's a bit 4 past that now. Item 6, as requested by property developer, 5 discussion and approval of encroachment of septic system 6 drainfield lines into a 7-foot recorded utility easement on 7 Lot 15 of Cedar Ridge Subdivision. Mr. Arreola? 8 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, sir. Good morning. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Morning. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Morning. 11 MR. ARREOLA: The developer of this property 12 has requested approval to encroach into that easement. He 13 got already approvals from the utility companies to do so, 14 but it's a recorded easement, and if you guys feel good with 15 it, we can continue on. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess the question -- 17 explain to me, is this something that's in the -- the state 18 rules that we've adopted that says you can't encroach into 19 an easement? 20 MR. ARREOLA: Yes. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, state law says that. 22 Is there -- 23 MR. ARREOLA: Yeah, we stay away from it. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You have to stay a 25 certain -- 10-11-05 31 1 MR. ARREOLA: Mm-hmm. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- a certain -- and the 3 benefit -- the reason for that is for the utility companies. 4 MR. ARREOLA: Yes. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And if the utility 6 companies that use that easement don't have a problem with 7 it, then I don't have a problem with it. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's correct. 9 That's basically the only way the septic system's going to 10 fit on the property. So -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: And it's already there? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. No. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They're doing a good 15 job in this. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So -- 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Bledsoe? 19 MR. BLEDSOE: Yes, sir? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Did you wish to be heard on 21 this item, please, sir? 22 MR. BLEDSOE: Well, I just wanted to -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Come forward, please, and give 24 your name and address, if you would, please. 25 MR. BLEDSOE: My name's Kenneth Bledsoe. I 10-11-05 32 1 work for Bledsoe General Contracting, Incorporated. I'm the 2 developer and owner, and I appreciate the consideration 3 here. I know Miguel has worked with us along with 4 Mr. Baldwin quite a bit on this project, and -- and that is 5 true; this is only way the septic tank is going to go on 6 this property, is if we have this variance. And we're only 7 asking for just a portion; it's not the entire property 8 line. And utility companies have cooperated with us as 9 well, and so I appreciate your consideration. That's it. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for approval. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 14 approval of the agenda item. Any question or discussion? 15 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 16 hand. 17 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let 21 me call Item 5, if I might. Then I'm going to make inquiry 22 of the County Attorney. Consider, discuss, and authorize 23 appropriate action on ASO appeal review request. It strikes 24 me that that may be a particular matter that needs to be an 25 executive session item. Do you concur? 10-11-05 33 1 MR. EMERSON: That's correct. Under 2 551.0785, it's confidential medical records. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So, we will return to 4 that under the executive session portion of the agenda. 5 Let's move to Item 7, if we might. Consider, discuss, and 6 take appropriate action on a concept plan for The Heights at 7 Greenwood within the city ETJ located in Precinct 4. 8 Commissioner Nicholson? 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm going to ask 10 questions of our Subdivision Rules expert. What we have 11 here is a 143-acre lot; he proposes to put 50 lots in, and 12 the question arises as to -- and there is water available 13 through the system -- Aquatech, I think, or whatever its 14 current name is. And the question is, again, the 15 interpretation of the 5-acre rule. The language provides 16 for -- requires a 5-acre average on subdivision lots, and 17 then it goes on to say that if system water is available, 18 those lots can -- individual lots can be smaller than that. 19 So, the question is, does the 5-acre average rule apply to 20 this kind of a subdivision? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Two things. First, I 22 think there's -- part of the confusion is -- relates to 23 water availability requirements. And a while back, you 24 know, a year, two years ago, we suspended enforcement of 25 water availability, and I think there was confusion with 10-11-05 34 1 that, the -- what we -- the intent of what I had, and why I 2 brought that to the Court was to suspend the drilling of 3 wells and that portion that we have an exhibit attached and 4 to suspend that action, because Headwaters didn't feel that 5 was beneficial. We get our -- our lot size making ability 6 comes under water availability. That's how we get that 7 authority. It's not under Chapter 232, and we get it 8 because we're in a priority -- we have different rules than 9 most of the states because we're in a priority groundwater 10 management area. 11 All that being said, the -- my opinion is 12 that the current rules state there's a 5-acre average -- I 13 mean a -- yeah, 5-acre average, but a 1-acre minimum lot 14 size. Now, this issue has come up and we've discussed it 15 before the Court before, in that the draft that we're 16 looking at to adopt changes that in this area. We -- it's 17 because if we have -- you know, we divide it up into -- or 18 propose to divide up into high-density development areas, 19 and it depends on where you are, you have a little bit 20 different average to encourage and enable developments like 21 this. Under that proposed rule change, there would be a 22 2-acre average within the ETJ of city of Ingram and city of 23 Kerrville. But under the current rules, it is a 5-acre 24 average, 1-acre minimum. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I forgot where the 10-11-05 35 1 developer -- Mr. Richard Davis. Will you state your name 2 and address for the court reporter, please. 3 MR. DAVIS: Richard Davis. I'm from Leander, 4 Texas, and I'm here to represent The Heights of Greenwood. 5 It's approximately a 5-acre proposed residential development 6 off Goat Creek Road, and has an average lot size of about 1 7 and a half acres. As y'all are aware, in 2000 Kerr County 8 adopted the ordinances regulating subdivisions, and then 9 under Section 1.05, Kerr County has been designated as the 10 county to be under the groundwater management area. And it 11 says that, as such, the Commissioners Court has been granted 12 the authority under Section 35.019 to require a person to do 13 two things; to comply with the water availability adopted by 14 the Commissioners court, which the Commissioners Court did 15 in July of 2002, but they also suspended this in January of 16 this year, of 2005. And, number two, 35.019 asks that we 17 supply -- show adequate supply of water of sufficient 18 quality and quantity to the number of lots platted. With 19 the suspension of the water requirements in January of this 20 year, it appears that the 1-acre lots are legal. That's 21 under Section 1.05 of the Subdivision Rules -- codes. So, 22 I'd like to pass out some correspondence from Aqua Texas at 23 this time which addresses the number two item required under 24 section 35.019. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: While you're doing 10-11-05 36 1 that, Mr. Davis, I have one question. Is this proposed 2 subdivision in the Ingram ETJ? 3 MS. DAVIS: No, sir, it -- it's in Kerrville. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's outside the 5 ETJ? 6 MS. DAVIS: It's in the Kerrville -- 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Oh, it's in 8 Kerrville. 9 MS. DAVIS: Mm-hmm. It just barely touched 10 it. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess a comment, also. 12 I visited with Mr. Davis by phone several weeks ago at some 13 length, and I thought another option of this is, if we could 14 ever get the state law -- or in compliance with state law 15 required in the ETJ and Subdivision Rules, which we're 16 basically waiting on the City of Kerrville, this issue would 17 be -- should be handled by the City of Ingram and City of 18 Kerrville. It shouldn't even be before this Court, in my 19 opinion. But with City changes -- and we're waiting, 20 really, more on the City of Kerrville, not City of Ingram. 21 City changes. That still has not been approved, though we 22 again point out to the Court that we now have three months 23 to be in compliance with state law on something that this 24 Court's been trying to move forward for the last two or 25 three years. Another approach to this is for us just to put 10-11-05 37 1 this under the City of Ingram and City of Kerrville, you 2 know, where it should be. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But there are others 4 coming up, Commissioner. I have one in Precinct 2 that's 5 coming up very -- very similar in nature to this, where a 6 property owner has about 30, 35 acres of land and wants to 7 subdivide it into what I think are parcels, and has -- and 8 it's in proximity to a public water system. So, you know, 9 there are others out there that are going to hit this desk. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, and that being 11 said, I mean, I think there is confusion about the way we 12 suspended the water availability requirements. I think that 13 can be easily cleared up today too, or it can be cleared up 14 at our next meeting with the -- at least the intent that I 15 had when we had that discussion was not to let -- pretty 16 much go back before the 19 -- into the early 1980's and how 17 we do subdivisions in this county on lot size. And all you 18 do is suspend the certain particular sections, which would 19 be 1.04, 1.05, 1.06 -- well, leave that one. Actually, I 20 thought we did it that way. I didn't know that we suspended 21 the full rules. I might look at the minutes from the 22 meeting. I thought we were more specific in how we 23 suspended those, but I could be wrong. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Commissioner, when 25 you propose changes to allow 2-acre average versus 5-acre 10-11-05 38 1 average, that will just be in certain specific areas? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's in the ETJ, and 3 within -- and would allow for the same or similar type of 4 development near the city of Ingram and the city of Comfort 5 -- or the community of Ingram and community of Comfort, 6 'cause they're not incorporated. We took a point and went a 7 2-mile -- I think it was a 2-mile radius, or 1-mile radius 8 from that point, a 1-mile radius from a specific point in 9 that area, you have that same density. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: There are -- are 11 those who are knowledgeable about water and aquifers, such 12 as yourself, who think that the 5-acre average rule is -- is 13 a key thing to protect the aquifer, so there would be at 14 least some opposition to relaxing the 5-acre rule, I would 15 guess. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think there is some 17 opposition to it, but I also think the intent with that is 18 to get -- you know, I think you have to -- when you're 19 looking at water, you have to balance the number of wells 20 and water systems and -- and a number of different things. 21 And I think most people feel you're far better off with 22 fewer penetrations into the aquifer, which you can only 23 accomplish through water systems. And I think that the -- 24 when you get into the areas around -- right around Center 25 Point and Comfort and Hunt, probably, and Kerrville, a 10-11-05 39 1 5-acre average, the economics is real, real difficult. And 2 we're pushing -- I think we're having a counter-effect. I 3 think we're pushing the development for these 1-acre or, you 4 know, higher density developments away from where they need 5 to be. They need to be near the city, the communities, 6 rather than get all these little satellite high-density 7 developments. So, that's why I came up with this -- the 8 proposed, you know, ETJ is one -- one average, and other 9 rural areas are a greater average. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, back in the 11 olden days, once, the -- what we concerned ourselves with 12 when we talked about size of lot was simply, is there enough 13 room on this property to have a water well and a septic 14 tank, and where they won't blend into each other? We've 15 gone to the 5-acre deal, and now we're talking about having 16 a -- and I've got one very similar to this coming up on the 17 agenda today where you have a central water system, so that 18 takes away the problem with the personal water well. And so 19 I -- you know, I just -- I -- I scratch my brain trying to 20 think why we want to go to the 5-acre average. I mean, the 21 -- the problem -- the problem is sewer and water, and you 22 take care of that problem with a community water service, 23 and the problem's gone. So I don't see what the -- you 24 know, I -- the way I read the rules -- and I know it refers 25 back to 1.004, whatever it is; I don't have mine in front of 10-11-05 40 1 me. But it clearly says in there that if you're on -- if 2 you have -- if a water system is available to you, you can 3 go down to 1-acre lots. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The -- I'm not 5 making this argument, Commissioner. I'm reporting an 6 argument that I hear, and that is that the 5-acre average 7 rule, the purpose of it is to hold down population. That if 8 you believe that there may not be enough water in the 9 aquifer, you control density of population by having a 10 5-acre rule, and that -- the argument goes on -- it doesn't 11 make any difference if you got a one big well serving 50 12 households or 50 wells; they're still taking the same amount 13 of water out of the aquifer. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: See, I would never say 15 it in public, but I'm among those people that kind of think 16 that way. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It has some appeal 18 to it. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. The other -- the 20 other option is -- I mean, and I've had long -- spent many 21 hours with Headwaters on this issue, and they were 22 uncomfortable with the rules that we had in place, but 23 they're equally uncomfortable in that they don't have 24 authority to set lot sizes. They do well spacing. So, if 25 we don't -- if we go to the 1-acre lot size, we're going to 10-11-05 41 1 have wells every 1 acre, because they can't regulate that. 2 We can. They -- their view is that we need a -- you know, 3 whether it's a 5-acre average or it's a 3-acre average, 4 somewhere in there, it depends on what studies you look at. 5 We still don't know enough about the aquifer, though we're 6 gaining on knowledge of the aquifer. So I think, you know, 7 Headwaters is going to -- they're kind of the ones that 8 we've looked to to give us advice on water availability and 9 -- and give us input on lot sizes. I think if you -- you 10 know, you end up going down to -- I guess undoing what we 11 have done with Headwaters over the last 10 years. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But the restriction's 13 still there. There has to be a public water system that has 14 an adequate supply if you go down to the 1 acre, not just 15 willy-nilly drilling wells everywhere. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think you'll have 17 a real hard time. I mean, who has -- no one has the 18 requirement to make the people hook up to a water system. 19 You can buy a lot and drill a well, and Headwaters can't 20 deny it. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Economically -- 22 economics makes them hook up, doesn't it? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well -- 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: A well's expensive. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- I don't know. I mean, 10-11-05 42 1 I know some people that are on a water system that are 2 getting ready to drill a well out in your area, 3 Commissioner, because the water supply from the water system 4 isn't adequate. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, Mr. Davis' 6 request here, he's brought us a concept plan. He's 7 following the process. The next step would be to hold a 8 public hearing; is that correct? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, not for him. On his 10 -- the next process for him, he needs guidance from us as 11 to -- get back to specifically as to whether we would allow 12 a waiver to an acre and a half density. 13 MS. DAVIS: Could I ask the Court a question? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sure. 15 MR. DAVIS: In January this year, the Court 16 voted -- it says Water Availability Requirements, Kerr 17 County Subdivision Rules and requirements. The Court voted 18 to suspend the water availability requirements on county 19 Subdivision Rules and Regulations, and that's 5.01.D, 20 acreage required to meet water availability requirements. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. No, water 22 availability requirements are another whole attachment. 23 MS. DAVIS: Talking about -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Water availability 25 requirements is an exhibit. It's a one, two, three -- I'd 10-11-05 43 1 say a five-page attachment. That's a separate whole entity. 2 But, I mean, for you, I guess, under your request, you know, 3 my personal feeling is I'd have no problem going with 2-acre 4 density, because that's what I think we have discussed and 5 have committed to doing that, even though we haven't got 6 there yet. Just give a waiver on this case, and that's the 7 direction I think we're going to go, or are trying to get. 8 Or the other option is for us to just say there is -- it's 9 in the ETJ; let him deal with the City of Ingram. I don't 10 have a problem with that approach either. Those are the two 11 options that I see that we need to look at. Or -- unless 12 we're going to go back and just -- and totally, I guess, 13 start over again on our rewrite of the Subdivision Rules. 14 Because if we don't follow one of those two options, to me, 15 we're saying, well, let's go back to the drawing board and 16 start over. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I think going 18 to 2 acres is fine, and going -- and throwing this over to 19 another jurisdiction if it's in the ETJ is all right as 20 well. But I think we have to have some clear definition of 21 where we're going for those situations that are not within 22 the ETJ, so we're going to have some. We do have them 23 already. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Doesn't it -- doesn't it all 25 fall back on the pumping rules as set by Headwaters as to 10-11-05 44 1 what -- based on their pumping limits, rules, ratios, what 2 an acre or 2 acres will or will not support in the way of 3 water usage? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not going to get into 5 how Headwaters came up with their pumping limits. I think 6 there's -- if you ask different people, you get different 7 answers from Headwaters on that point, and I think it's a -- 8 the State has dealt a hand where counties have authority to 9 set the lot size, but Headwaters is the one that gives us 10 the information as to how we do it. And that's just kind 11 of -- it's not a real -- a great system. They don't have 12 the ability to do lot sizes. They can do well spacing and 13 pumping limits, and we can do lot sizes based on water 14 availability, which we get from Headwaters. So, I don't 15 think it's that simple. I think the idea -- hopefully, we 16 can come to an agreement as to -- you know, with Headwaters 17 and working with Headwaters as we have tried to do up till 18 now. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, my point is that the -- 20 the pumping limits is based upon the acreage. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think so. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: If my understanding is 23 correct. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I didn't think it was 25 on -- I don't know. I mean, I'm not sure of that. I think 10-11-05 45 1 it's -- because they'll -- the difference on pumping limits 2 is permitted or not permitted. You can go out here anywhere 3 you want and pump more than that; you just have to have a 4 permitted well to do it, as I understand their rules. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Mr. Davis, what 6 average lot size are you proposing? 7 MS. DAVIS: This was with about one and a 8 half acres. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I got to tell you, 10 I -- being an old-timer here, I dislike seeing 50 lots at an 11 acre and a half. I hate it. It's ugly. I mean, there's 12 nothing pretty about your program. However, the way I see 13 it, if there's a water system provided to it, I don't -- I 14 don't see why we would want to stop it, other than it's 15 ugly. 16 MS. DAVIS: Could I make a comment? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's not a very good 18 reason to stop a project. 19 MS. DAVIS: Could I make a comment on that? 20 The -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If you'll speak up. 22 MR. DAVIS: The original Greenwood, 23 Section 8, -- 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 25 MS. DAVIS: -- it was 48 lots and 28 acres. 10-11-05 46 1 That's about a half-acre average. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 3 MR. DAVIS: Per lot. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think the answer 5 to Commissioner Baldwin's -- the reason is, they're using 6 groundwater. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And if we get a higher 9 density, then we're going to get -- we're just extending the 10 problem that is currently in the city of Kerrville when we 11 go to higher density developments out there. We know how 12 much water people use. We know about how much water we 13 think, you know, a good -- best guess in the aquifer, and 14 there's no one that I know of that thinks that we can have 15 wells on 1-acre density on a large area. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with that. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. So, I think that 18 the -- I mean, the reason for a larger -- or an average is 19 -- I have no problem with a 1-acre minimum. I think it's a 20 2-acre average, 'cause you're drawing -- that well needs to 21 be drawn from basically the area near the subdivision, and 22 usually the amount of withdrawal is the issue. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Commissioner, sooner 24 or later we're going to make a decision on changing the 25 rules to allow this high-density development, and when we 10-11-05 47 1 talk about that, how are we going to explain that you can 2 use one or one and a half acre lots where you have a public 3 water supply near Ingram, but you can't do it where you got 4 a public water supply near Hunt? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the -- the reason 6 is there is a contemplation where -- well, the nature of the 7 four areas we're talking about, ETJ of Kerrville, ETJ of 8 Ingram, and around Comfort, around Center Point, long-term, 9 there's a very likely option that those water systems will 10 have surface water available to them. City of Kerrville 11 already does; most of their water is surface water. And 12 city of Ingram and city of Kerrville are -- and I think that 13 -- so they're -- we're going down a road to that. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That makes sense. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Another part of that 16 answer might be in this letter from Aqua Texas, in which 17 they state, to whomever this is addressed -- I guess to 18 us -- that in this particular instance, Aqua Texas has 19 permission to withdraw 210 million gallons per year, and 20 they're 18 and a half million gallons under their limits 21 right now, so there's plenty of reserve, according to the 22 Headwaters statistic. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's probably not 24 Headwaters; that's probably T.C.E.Q. statistics. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Could be. 10-11-05 48 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Because that's another 2 issue to have -- and where Headwaters and the City of 3 Kerrville has an issue on water, because public water supply 4 companies come under T.C.E.Q. completely, not under any 5 local -- 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're probably 7 right, but he says Headwaters in his letter. 8 MS. DAVIS: Gentlemen, Tom Myers with Aqua 9 Texas is here if you want to address any questions to him. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't. You know, going 11 back to what I said, I mean, to me it's -- I have no problem 12 with giving a waiver to a 2-acre average. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't either. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or letting the City of 15 Ingram and City of Kerrville decide. Those are the -- 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't have any 17 problem with it being built as proposed. I've got a concern 18 about setting a precedent. I would rather take some action 19 to -- to allow Kerrville and Ingram to approve these kinds 20 of subdivisions in their ETJ than I would grant a waiver. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, that'll -- I mean, 22 as of January, that will be the law. They will -- they have 23 this jurisdiction in this area. Now, if we could ever, like 24 I said -- 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If we get an 10-11-05 49 1 agreement worked out. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think we'll be in 3 noncompliance with state law if we don't have an agreement 4 come January. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, if we granted a 6 waiver, it would only be a problem between now and January. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: In the ETJ, yes. And 8 there are parts of the ETJ that we're going to retain -- and 9 there will be parts of the ETJ we'll retain control. But in 10 this area -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Dream on. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, that's -- the City 13 wants that. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Jon and I have only 15 been working on that, what, seven years? Six years? Trying 16 to get it done. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Time's running out. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, I think I'll 20 make a motion to -- to accept the concept plan, with the 21 understanding that it'll require a waiver. And the next 22 step is to set a public hearing on it? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, no public hearing. 24 New development. It will just go into preliminary -- 25 preliminary plat. 10-11-05 50 1 MR. ODOM: Preliminary. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Come through this way. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Then we'll set -- 4 yeah, okay. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think the -- go 6 ahead. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This -- agreeing with 8 this today agrees with his plan of acre and a half -- 50 9 lots at an acre and a half. That means -- the way I 10 understand it, anyway, is that by agreeing with him, he'll 11 move forward with this plan, and then the next step would be 12 the preliminary plat with this plan built on it. So, I 13 mean, if we're going -- if we're going to say no to this 14 guy, we need to say no today. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mm-hmm. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And if we say -- well, if 18 we say yes on doing this, we've just established an acre and 19 a half lot sizes in the county. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's probably true. 21 MR. ODOM: Acre and a half -- no, an acre. 22 You have one -- there was a concept plan presented to Buster 23 and I -- I'm sorry, Mr. Richards. May I -- Len Odom. We 24 have -- Buster and I have had a concept plan back in August 25 in the ETJ of Kerrville on Sheppard Rees up there. And 10-11-05 51 1 that -- of course, it was a concept. We went through at 2 that point, and the City of Kerrville told them that they 3 could have 1-acre lots. As a matter of fact, they could go 4 down to 6,000 square feet, was what was implied to us, and 5 there was enough water. So, I really need -- I need a 6 direction as to one and a half, one in the ETJ, and 7 Kerrville signing off on it. They came to us for the 8 construction of the roads. Kerrville said they wouldn't do 9 the roads, they just go to the County. So we discussed -- 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, that's what I'm 11 saying. I mean, the ETJ issue has got to be resolved with 12 the City of Kerrville, and the County's been trying. 13 MR. ODOM: I know, but we have other people 14 out -- you know, out there hanging. And I -- 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's right. 16 MR. ODOM: And we need to resolve it, where 17 we stand. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My opinion is that we 19 adopt our -- we can't do it today. We adopt what we've 20 proposed and the Court has signed off on; you know, the -- 21 the 2-acre average in the ETJ and around Comfort and Center 22 Point. I mean, if we're -- if we go to 1 acre and a half, 23 then we might as well go back to square one on Subdivision 24 Rules again, and we'll be a while. I may just hand it off 25 to another Commissioner this time around, because, I mean, 10-11-05 52 1 you know, we have -- we all voted to go with 2 acres -- or 2 discussed to go to 2 acres. I don't think we voted on it. 3 We decided we're going to 2 acres, so if we're not going to 4 do that, why did I waste my time bringing it to the Court 5 previously? 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'll withdraw my 7 motion. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree with you. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, go back to the -- 10 go back to this issue here about the 2-acre theory. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think this is -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Somebody make a 13 motion, though, to approve something so that he'll know what 14 to do. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion to 16 grant a waiver so that The Heights at Greenwood can be 17 developed on 2-acre average, 1-acre minimum. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. 20 Discussion? Questions? All in favor of the motion, signify 21 by raising your right hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. We have 10-11-05 53 1 another timed item that we're a little late on at 9:45, 2 consider and discuss a concept and proposal by Kerr County 3 Mounted Peace Officers Association for the construction of a 4 multi-use facility adjacent to Kerr County Law Enforcement 5 Center for emergency operations, law enforcement training, 6 and other law enforcement and emergency functions and 7 purposes. The recent events of Katrina and Rita, I think, 8 bring squarely into focus the need for emergency operations 9 in times of natural disaster or things of that nature, and 10 possibly terrorist attack, biological situations, and also 11 the -- the collaboration with law enforcement that -- that 12 that necessarily has. And I was contacted by some of the 13 members of the Kerr County Mounted Peace Officers 14 Association with a very interesting and intriguing idea 15 concerning this agenda item, and I'd like to call on 16 representatives of the Mounted Peace Officers to give us a 17 presentation on that. Mr. Bock? Mr. Backor? 18 MR. BACKOR: Would you mind if the Sheriff 19 goes first so you can see his position on this? And then 20 we'll -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Come ahead, Sheriff. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, first, I think 23 that they definitely need to get up here in just a few 24 minutes and give y'all an idea of what the Hill Country 25 Mounted Peace Officers Association is all about and their 10-11-05 54 1 history. They have been an extremely valuable tool to all 2 law enforcement in this county on numerous occasions 3 already, whether it was the fire out on Sheppard Rees Road 4 and bringing their command center and just a lot of 5 different things I'll let them go into. I know back when it 6 was first formed, I think at that time Joe Davis was the 7 first president of it, and I was one of the vice presidents. 8 I'm not a current member; haven't been for a number of 9 years, just 'cause of other duties. But this same issue 10 came up a couple of years ago, the -- them wanting to lease 11 some land out there at the adult detention facility to be 12 able to build a training room. At that time, there was also 13 the consideration of having stables out there and horses and 14 different animals, and it kind of fell to the wayside 15 because of that. I really wasn't totally in favor of that. 16 But what they're talking about is land -- a 17 portion of the land that would be -- if you're standing 18 facing the adult detention facility or facing the building, 19 it would be on your right-hand side, off kind of across the 20 driveway from J.P. 2's office, where that holding tank is or 21 that pond is. There's some area in front of it that would 22 face the road. In my personal opinion, this is a total 23 win-win situation for the County. They can explain to you 24 what their -- what they're requesting exactly, but it would 25 solve a lot of problems we have in the county, at least at 10-11-05 55 1 that facility, number one problem being the administrative 2 office area, of course, is running out of room. The next 3 room that I have to be able to just close in or make office 4 space out of is our current training room, and this would 5 take that current training room out of that building, but 6 put it in an area that's not behind our secure area. As you 7 know, walking in, we have secure doors, but it would put it 8 in another -- another building totally. That would allow 9 access to it from all law enforcement agencies, and that's 10 what part of their agreement is, is that it would be a very 11 large training room for all agencies. 12 One of the next agenda items you're going to 13 look at is an AACOG agreement, and that would also get moved 14 over into that facility and make it even more beneficial to 15 all law enforcement in this area and Fredericksburg, 16 everywhere. I think it's win-win. The other thing is the 17 storage area. The bays that they're talking about putting 18 on and having out there would house their trailers, which 19 are very valuable trailers, but they would also house our 20 trailers, which we have a communications trailer and a 21 supply trailer that are housed up in that storage area 22 behind the office as it is now, and it's really very tight 23 room up there for them, mainly heighth-wise. I think one of 24 them clears it by less than half an inch. It's getting that 25 trailer in and out, so it's very hazardous as far as that 10-11-05 56 1 goes. 2 But the idea -- I talked to Rex about this 3 idea. He didn't see any problem with it. It's just that 4 there would have to -- our County Attorney and their 5 attorney would have to get together on a lease agreement 6 type for the land, but I think this would be one of the 7 smartest moves that we could all make in adding to training, 8 adding to cooperation, and adding to just every aspect you 9 can see, and even in the future, possibly being turned into 10 the emergency operations center, because it is separated. 11 It takes politics out of it. Right now the emergency 12 operations center is the training room at Kerrville P.D., 13 which is smaller and in worse shape than our training room. 14 But it would take it directly out of both departments and 15 make a very good stand-alone EOC center for county-wide 16 functions and disasters, and it just gets all your equipment 17 gathered together and keeps it in the same place. So, at 18 this time, I kind of said mine, and Steve Backor and Ronnie 19 Bock are both here, both members of that organization. I 20 think, Steve, if you'll let him have a few words first. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Backor? 22 MR. BACKOR: I gave a lot of speeches in the 23 last 30 years, and this is probably going to be the toughest 24 one. On behalf of President Mark Chapa, who is on special 25 assignment in east Texas, and all members of the Mounted 10-11-05 57 1 Peace Officers Association, I would like to thank Judge 2 Tinley for inviting us this morning to speak before all of 3 you. I am State Game Warden Steve Backor, and have been a 4 member of this association since 1991, and was president 5 from 1997 to 2000. The association was formed in 1987 by 6 state, county, and city peace officers who are associate 7 members, and also voted in local citizens, civilians, as 8 honorary members. The association was formed to support law 9 enforcement agencies in any way it could, and mostly to have 10 horses available for such things as manhunts, missing 11 persons, and whatever the members were called upon to do. 12 In the beginning, money was very tight, and if there was 13 money spent, it came out of the members' pocket. And they 14 were glad to donate to a worthy cause. 15 The last decade, the association has grown in 16 membership and in equipment, such as our command post 17 trailer, which we are very proud of. It has been deployed 18 out on many occasions, such as plane crashes, manhunts, 19 homicides, tornadoes in Gillespie County, kidnappings, the 20 Labor Day fire which we all remember and will never forget, 21 and even the county fair. Radios were purchased for our 22 members to have contact with other officers in case of an 23 emergency. A utility trailer was also purchased and stocked 24 with emergency supplies to be deployed with our command 25 post. The last decade, the association has continued on 10-11-05 58 1 with the Kerr County Wild Game Dinner in Kerrville that was 2 started by the Texas Game Warden Association, which this 3 year will be the 25th game dinner. 4 With money raised, we have been able to do 5 more for our law enforcement community. Money was given to 6 Kerr County to help purchase bulletproof vests for our 7 deputies here in our county so they might have a better 8 chance of safely returning to their families at the end of 9 their tour of duty. Radios were also purchased for our 10 constables to have better communications with other officers 11 when needing help and helping others, which, in fact, I know 12 they do. Honorary members have begun training in different 13 situations. They might have -- they might be asked to 14 perform in case of a disaster in our community, such as 15 floods, fires, terrorist threats to our community. 16 Thousands of dollars have been given to families over the -- 17 families of fallen officers over the state of Texas. This 18 association has joined in with the Kerrville Police 19 Association in giving to Blue Santa for many years. The 20 association raised over $5,000 for Julie Beasley, the 21 Schreiner student that was shot outside of Center Point. 22 The following year, the association raised -- 23 money was raised by this association and people that 24 attended our game dinner for the fallen soldier James Kiehl 25 of Comfort. Up to $1,000 scholarships have been given to 10-11-05 59 1 our three local high schools by this association to students 2 wishing to go into criminal justice. Many other events, 3 such as the 4-H and Youth Awareness Day that is held every 4 year for all fourth graders in Kerr County and other 5 counties that have participated was started by this 6 association. This association continues to donate $3,000 to 7 our local game wardens for youth camps here in Kerr County 8 to learn more about the great outdoors. With our 9 fundraiser, the association has well -- raised well over 10 $100,000 in the last decade to support our officers, and 11 well -- as well as our citizens of the Hill Country. With 12 all we have accomplished, we are known from Florida to 13 Dallas to Midland to Austin and now into east Texas, where 14 this association's equipment is being used to keep radio 15 communication towers going after the -- can be used after 16 the hurricane. 17 This is a short vision of how far our 18 association has come since 1987. At this time, I would like 19 to turn it over to Ronnie Bock, honorary member, to tell you 20 where the Association wants to go in the future. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Backor. 22 MR. BOCK: Thank you, Steve. I want to thank 23 y'all this morning for having us here. I'd like to -- if we 24 could, to simplify this. We just want to give you an 25 overlay concept of what our plans are. We're not asking you 10-11-05 60 1 today to sign an agreement. We just want you to tell us if 2 you have this in your favor; then we can move to stage two. 3 What we'd have liked to do for a long time is this building, 4 and the -- the land has always been the problem. The 5 Sheriff, in his vision, came to us about a week ago and 6 asked if we'd be interested, if we could get it done, to put 7 it right next to the jail. In today's world, it is the 8 responsibility of the people themselves to protect ourselves 9 and to train. This particular building would not solve all 10 of our problems. It's simply a start. There can't be a 11 staging area in all of the -- that we've had with the 12 hurricanes around every town. This building would have a 13 multi-use. It would be owned by us, and if you had an 14 instance to where there was going to be some flooding at the 15 camps, we could get them -- bus the kids back down to a safe 16 area and have that place for the kids to stay for the 17 parents to -- to head for. We plan to have beds there. We 18 plan to have a pantry there. We plan also for it to be 19 completely self-contained, so that if we're out of power, we 20 have -- we have a generator backup. 21 Now, what we're asking of you today is if you 22 would consider a lease, a long-term lease that you would 23 agree to. What we plan to do is, this is going to be a 24 one-year type deal. We feel like the need is so urgent, we 25 actually had to have this yesterday. What we plan to do is 10-11-05 61 1 to set our fundraiser into motion after the first of the 2 year. We'd have a calendar year of January 1, '06 through 3 December the 31st, '06. We would pay for the building in 4 full. There would be no building on your property that 5 would have a lien. I know that would be one of your first 6 concerns. And the nice thing about this is, if we can't 7 have this done within a one-year period, we're going to 8 completely refund everyone who -- who gave. But this is a 9 project that is not for any individual or for any group. It 10 is for the people, by the people, and of the people, kind of 11 like government. We're asking for you to consider this, and 12 I'm glad we picked today, because this is an item that's not 13 going to cost you anything, and from what I've heard prior, 14 this has to have your interest. 15 Let me see what else I wrote in my notes. If 16 you would consider that, we'll move back to where we wanted 17 to go with the agreement. We'd like to have it done and 18 signed before the end of the year. Everybody's concerned 19 about one thing, and I think you can understand this. We 20 don't want any of the politics involved in this. We 21 understand there's an election just around the corner. 22 Because this isn't about state, county, or city; this is 23 about all of us, and we want to take the politics out. And 24 if you will give us some direction today, we have a concept 25 plan already drawn. We're going to get us an architect to 10-11-05 62 1 come in and have this tweaked. It will be built with a 2 style to match what you've got out there. We -- we haven't 3 found an attorney yet to -- to meet with Rex. We have a lot 4 of them in town that are good, but we're going to try to 5 find free, so that may take us just a little bit. But if -- 6 if you will guide us today, we'll go to stage two. We'll 7 get the agreement done, then we'll go to the City. We'll 8 make sure that what we want to do will -- will fit with 9 them. And just remember this, it will be a debt-free 10 building, one-year type deal, so this isn't going to be a 11 five-year plan. 'Cause we need this now. We don't know 12 what we're going to have to have tomorrow. So, if you will 13 be so kind to give us some guidance, and if you have any 14 questions, I'll do my best to answer. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Ronnie, I have a 16 couple questions. 17 MR. BOCK: Yes, sir? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're talking about 19 a ground lease, I understand -- I take it? 20 MR. BOCK: Yes, sir. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How big is the 22 facility and how much ground are you talking about leasing, 23 and will the building, after it's constructed and paid for, 24 as a condition of the ground lease, will it revert to the 25 County over -- over a period of time? 10-11-05 63 1 MR. BOCK: What we would like to do is to 2 have something along the lines of a 25- to 30-year lease at 3 a dollar a year. Obviously, you have to have a clause in 4 there that if, for any reason, we default on taxes or we 5 should happen to not keep the building up, there has to be 6 some sort of default clause that generates the property back 7 to you. But as long as we are in compliance with the 8 agreement, it stays with the Association forever. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It stays with the 10 Association for the term of the ground lease? 11 MR. BOCK: That's correct, sir. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How big a facility 13 are we talking about, Ronnie? 14 MR. BOCK: As it is right now, it's 15 approximately -- we had to add on the -- it's about 8,000, 16 isn't it? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's about 75 by 90. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah, 75 by 100, 19 somewhere in there. 20 MR. BOCK: So, say, by the time it all got 21 tweaked down and down, about 8,000 square foot. You're 22 looking at a project -- with the current price of materials 23 today, you're probably looking at close to $800,000. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Whoa. I notice the 25 Sheriff made mention of training. This would have space for 10-11-05 64 1 training. And we are about to engage in a lease 2 arrangement -- the contract arrangements with AACOG. 3 MR. BOCK: Yes, sir. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: To set up the first 5 distance learning center in law enforcement. 6 MR. BOCK: Yes, sir, we're aware of that. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In this part of 8 Texas, which I think is a real -- real plus for Kerr County. 9 And so this facility would be able to contain that and the 10 access necessary and so forth and so on; is that correct? 11 MR. BOCK: Yes, sir. What our -- our plans 12 are, as we've done in the past with the whole history, is 13 that we cater to all the law enforcement. There -- there 14 might be a time that -- that the City has a need for the 15 same thing. There is no boundaries on who can use it. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ronnie, if I can follow 17 up on that a little bit, so the facility's open to all area 18 law enforcement, and you had mentioned Gillespie County, so 19 I presume other counties if they need it as well. Who is 20 going to -- and y'all own it. Are y'all going to have staff 21 out there for leasing, or are you going to let the Sheriff 22 kind of take care of -- his secretary or assistant? How is 23 it going to work? And it may be too early even to figure 24 that out. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, the preliminary 10-11-05 65 1 that we have talked about, even in our current very small 2 training room, we do try and keep a schedule. My secretary 3 keeps a schedule of people wanting to use it and times, 4 'cause sometimes we have mediations out there, and what 5 we're all kind of in favor of in just our talks is that it 6 would be kind of done on that order. It wouldn't be a 7 staff. It would be locked if nobody was there. They would 8 have access to it 100 percent of the time, but the training 9 would be scheduled. And a lot of it that I would see, that 10 multi-purpose meeting room that you see that's very large is 11 going to seat between 75 and 100 students or people in a 12 classroom, and then what with that distance learning stuff 13 set up in there, it would be just an unbelievable training 14 center for all law enforcement around this area, whether 15 you're at Junction in the different COG's or whether you're 16 at, you know, here or Fredericksburg in this COG. And one 17 of the reasons that I was totally in favor of this, besides 18 what I just had told y'all before, is this is one 19 organization -- this is one association that's been in 20 existence since '87, and has never failed to meet needs for 21 law enforcement, and has never showed any prejudices or 22 biases towards any certain law enforcement group. They've 23 stayed independent, but yet, you know, we've had plane 24 crashes that they went on where they're calling us for help. 25 We've had bulls get out on the interstate and call them 10-11-05 66 1 because one or two of their members will have horses and 2 trailers, and we've used them for that. I mean, they will 3 bend over backwards doing things for law enforcement, and my 4 understanding is -- and I hope it never ever happens, but if 5 the organization did go under during all this, that all the 6 total ownership of that building that they built and 7 everything would revert back to the County. 8 MR. BOCK: Also, if you look -- and, again, 9 today I don't want to tie up your time in the building, 10 'cause we're not there yet to have you a plan, but if you'll 11 look there where we've added on for all the -- the stuff 12 that the Sheriff has, when all the trailers and equipment is 13 moved out, that area could also be to house people. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: The garage area, you're 15 speaking of? 16 MR. BOCK: Yes, sir. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Essentially, what -- what 18 you're asking us today is for a conditional approval of the 19 concept, and giving you a period of one year beginning 20 January 1 to obtain the necessary commitment of funding to 21 put the facility in place, and if you're able to do that, 22 we'll put the conditional agreement in place ahead of that 23 time, and then you guys go to work to get the funding, and 24 once that's committed, go forward with the construction 25 pursuant to the agreement. 10-11-05 67 1 MR. BOCK: That's correct. All -- all we're 2 asking you today is if you like the idea, authorize the -- 3 Rex to get with whoever -- whoever we get, if you will, to 4 draw up an agreement that you agree to and that we agree to, 5 and it's not going to be complicated. It's very simple. 6 It's -- these type agreements are done all the time, so then 7 we can move to stage two and stage three. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One final question I 9 have, Ronnie. All the reference today has been to law 10 enforcement. I assume you're also talking about other 11 emergency services as well? 12 MR. BOCK: All of it, sir. All the above. 13 There's no way to predict what the building could be used 14 for. That would be left to our complete discretion. But 15 what I'm saying is, it's a need we should have had a long 16 time ago. We don't have it yet. And if you agree, then 17 we're going to move ahead, and it'll be the people doing it. 18 There's no tax dollars. So, all we're asking for is -- is 19 the lease. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The win-win -- a 21 win-win issue is a good thing. 22 MR. BOCK: Yes, sir. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: For all of us. 24 MR. BOCK: Yes, sir. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And I appreciate you 10-11-05 68 1 guys, unlike some of the other functions in this community 2 that -- that they can't open the doors without the 3 government being there and providing all -- everything. I 4 really appreciate you guys a lot. And if I were to vote 5 right now, which I'm not, I would vote in the affirmative, 6 big time. 7 MR. BOCK: Well, it is a -- it's very 8 important that every community realizes that we must take 9 responsibility for our own lives. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. 11 MR. BOCK: If we don't do that now, at some 12 point we're going to wish we had. And I think the 13 educational and the -- the funds that might be here, there 14 are a lot of good causes. None is more important than -- 15 than the next, but when you have an item like this that's 16 going to serve everybody for all needs, then we feel like we 17 can raise the funds. If we can't, it didn't cost anybody 18 anything. We're going to give all the money back. We have 19 no need to have a bank account. We're looking for a 20 building. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is not styled as 22 an action item, but I can tell you I favor it. I think it's 23 a great idea. 24 MR. BOCK: Thank you so much. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I haven't heard any negative 10-11-05 69 1 comments, Mr. Bock. 2 MR. BOCK: It's free. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: That ought to be your 4 guidance. 5 MR. BOCK: Thank you, sir. Thank you, folks. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: We appreciate you gentlemen 7 being here today. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Just got one 9 question for the Sheriff. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes, sir? 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: He said that this 12 building would free up some administrative office space. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Definitely. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You're not planning 15 on adding staff, are you? 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Sooner or later, this 17 county will grow, as it has. When I first started with the 18 County 25 years ago, there was nine employees in the 19 Sheriff's Office, counting the jail, and I've got 95 now. 20 So -- 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: At least -- 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- it will grow. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: At least wait a year 24 and a half. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I hope we wait more than 10-11-05 70 1 that. More employees, more problems. Thank you, gentlemen. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Why don't we see 3 if we can get a few more items out of the way. Let's go to 4 Item 8, if we might. Consider, discuss, and take 5 appropriate action to set a public hearing for revision of 6 plat of Kerrville Ranchettes, Tracts 8, 9, and 10, in Volume 7 3, Page 79, Plat Records, located in Precinct 4. 8 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. Good morning. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: You just need a public 10 hearing? 11 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir, I need to set that. I 12 ask the Court to consider setting the public hearing for 13 November the 14th, 2005, at 10 a.m. for the revision of 14 plat, Kerrville Ranchettes, Tracts 8, 9, and 10, and in 15 Precinct 4. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Nothing unusual 17 about this one, is there? 18 MR. ODOM: No, sir. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're taking four and 20 making two? 21 MR. ODOM: Yes. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We usually like 23 that. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: We already have a 10 o'clock 25 item, I'm informed, Mr. Odom. Would you like to try for 10-11-05 71 1 10:15? 2 MR. ODOM: Yes. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: 10:15 when? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: 11-14-05. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I move that we set a 7 public hearing for revision of plat of Kerrville Ranchettes, 8 Tracts 8, 9, and 10, Volume 3, Page 79, in Precinct 4, and 9 that public hearing be held at -- 10:15, did you say? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: On the 14th of 12 November. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to 15 set the public hearing as designated in the motion. Any 16 question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify 17 by raising your right hand. 18 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We'll 22 go to Item 10. Consider, discuss, and take appropriate 23 action to set a public hearing for revision of plat for The 24 Horizon, Section 1, Lots 21 and 22 in Volume 6, Page 323 25 through 326 of the Plat Records, located in Precinct 1. 10-11-05 72 1 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. I would ask the Court 2 to consider the public hearing for November the 14th, 2005, 3 say at 10:20 a.m., for the revision of plat for The Horizon, 4 Section 1, Lots 21 and 22, Volume 6, Pages 323 through 326 5 in Precinct 1. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for approval. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 9 approval of the public hearing being set as designated. Any 10 question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify 11 by raising your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, Number 11 is 17 going to be short and sweet. 18 MR. ODOM: Very short and sweet, I would 19 assume. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Let's call Item 21 11, consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 22 reserve the name of "Las Colinas of Kerrville" for a 23 community planned in Precinct 1. 24 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Odom? 10-11-05 73 1 MR. ODOM: Yes. Our office received the 2 enclosed request to reserve the subdivision name. This name 3 is not unique. There is a Las Colinas recorded in Volume 5, 4 Page 42, Kerr County Plat Records, and another unrecorded as 5 Las Colinas. Mr. Richards, who represents McRae Energy or 6 Mr. McRae, has asked the Court to consider allowing this 7 name -- reserving it for his client, "Las Colinas of 8 Kerrville." So, we're sort of caught -- you know, we're 9 being asked to do that. I think Mr. Richards is here. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right over here, the 11 one with the glare off his head. You both have glares off 12 your head. 13 MR. ODOM: Won't hurt anybody for him to 14 stand up here. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Makes me blind. 16 MR. ODOM: So, really, what I would like to 17 know from the Court, and that's what he would like to know, 18 is can they reserve that name? Is that too much similarity, 19 Las Colinas of Kerrville versus -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Greg, why don't you 21 come up and -- I think maybe there's some confusion here 22 over -- when we go back to the 9-1-1 issue of duplication of 23 names of roads is kind of where we may be hung up there. 24 So, he borrowed my phone this morning and we put him in 25 touch with the 9-1-1 folks and had a discussion. Tell these 10-11-05 74 1 guys what -- 2 MR. RICHARDS: In talking with the 9-1-1 3 folks, what they've told me is that the subdivision names, 4 even though there is an existing Las Colinas and we're 5 proposing Las Colinas of Kerrville, even though those are 6 similar, they didn't have any problem whatsoever with that, 7 as long as the street names that were ultimately chosen were 8 not in any way similar to what exists. I asked her if -- 9 if, when 9-1-1 calls come in, if any -- any of the 10 information that comes up on their screen references a 11 subdivision name, and the answer was no, it's just a street 12 name and street number in the community, whether it's 13 Kerrville, Comfort, Center Point, et cetera. So, we are 14 totally in favor of trying to pick a name that's not going 15 to be confusing as far as the roadways are concerned, but 16 would like the subdivision name to read "Las Colinas of 17 Kerrville." 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That was my concern, 19 because I do have a -- a Las Colinas address in Precinct 2, 20 and so I'm glad you found out that information. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't -- it doesn't 23 make any difference to me. It seems -- I mean -- 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Would there be any 25 other -- would there be any other reason, like postal 10-11-05 75 1 service or anything like that, that may cause some 2 confusion? I mean, I -- I don't see it, but -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think there's -- I 4 think it creates a confusing situation, and I think there's 5 other things, and I'm sure Mr. Richards can look into it, 6 from name usage and assumed name certificates and Secretary 7 of State's office and all that, but nothing to do with us 8 from my standpoint. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Unless it's a street 10 address. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Street address is the 12 only thing that we have. Doesn't bother me one way or the 13 other. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Does the County Clerk have any 15 concerns relative to plat filings? 16 MS. PIEPER: I'm thinking somewhere in the 17 Property Code it states that we're not supposed to duplicate 18 names, but right off the top of my head, I cannot think of 19 that statute. But as far as our indexing goes, I don't 20 think that's going to be a problem. If we put in the name, 21 you know, for a -- if we're searching the subdivision, then 22 both of them will pop up. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This one's actually 24 different. It's Las Colinas, Kerrville. 25 MS. PIEPER: Right. 10-11-05 76 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So -- 2 MS. PIEPER: But normally, whenever we're 3 searching a record, we will put in just, you know, like "Las 4 Colinas," and then both of them would pop up. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Actually, what I -- I 6 think the appropriate thing to do here today -- I mean, I 7 don't -- passing a court order I don't think is appropriate, 8 so just kind of nod our heads. 9 MR. ODOM: A direction. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. I mean, it's 11 fine with me. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. I think, to me, 13 the unusual request part of it is reserving it. And I -- 14 you know, I don't -- doesn't make any difference to me if we 15 reserve names or not. 16 MR. RICHARDS: Well, the only -- my client's 17 criteria that he put in front of me was to reserve the name, 18 as opposed to someone else being able to use that name, so 19 that's what I'd ask the Commissioners for action on, is 20 under, you know, the conditions that we've discussed, that 21 the name's ultimately -- that's going to be part of the plat 22 process. But in terms of use of the name, that -- that 23 nobody can get ahead of us. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, who's the 25 watchdog on this? 10-11-05 77 1 MS. PIEPER: Well, gentlemen, even if -- even 2 if somebody files assumed names, we do not police that. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's my question. 4 Who's the watchdog? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I don't know -- I 6 mean, if someone did an assumed name certificate, "Las 7 Colinas, Kerrville," and y'all don't have one already on 8 file and you don't have one, like I said, with the Secretary 9 of State, that's -- that's another issue. I mean, we don't 10 have any control over it. And if so, and y'all want to come 11 in and say "Las Colinas of Kerrville South," well, we'd 12 probably let it go through, or "Las Colinas, Ingram," you 13 know. 14 MS. PIEPER: If they file the assumed name 15 certificate with us, we do not police that at all. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's up to the 17 individual, 'cause I've been through that before. Once you 18 get it filed or you get yours filed on this, it's up to you 19 to keep someone else from doing it. 20 MR. RICHARDS: Sure. Well, I don't have any 21 concerns about d/b/a records. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Now, if the clerk -- if 23 there's not a legal prohibition, that may be something that 24 the County Attorney needs to take a look at, or maybe 25 Mr. Richards, if he hasn't already. But -- 10-11-05 78 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How long are you asking 2 for it to be reserved, I guess? 3 MR. RICHARDS: I anticipate that a concept 4 plat will be forthcoming in the next four to six months. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: County Attorney? 6 MR. EMERSON: The only thing I would say is 7 that county government's limited to the specific statutory 8 authority granted by the state, and I don't know of any 9 statutory authority offhand that allows y'all to undertake 10 reserving a name. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't think it 12 does either. If there was a conflict in names, I think it 13 would be a civil matter. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I think, I mean, 15 to protect your name, you ought to file a concept plan, let 16 us act on a concept plan, and then it's there. I mean -- 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One way to protect it 18 is to copyright it. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And he's -- he should 20 be pretty close to a concept plan. I mean, you should be 21 ready to go. I saw it, what, a month ago? 22 MR. ODOM: We saw it in August, but I don't 23 believe he's bought the property yet. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. 25 MR. ODOM: And so the question comes up with 10-11-05 79 1 the 1 acre versus 2, which has to be, I assume -- 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, that's the 3 same -- this is the same one that -- the city issue, ETJ 4 issue on lot size. 5 MR. ODOM: In their ETJ. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, y'all can go 7 downstairs and leg-wrastle, although I don't recommend it. 8 But -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He just said we can't act 10 on it, so we just -- we have no problem with it, I guess, is 11 the only thing that we can say. 12 MR. RICHARDS: Okay, fair enough. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: What about this next item? 15 How long is it going to take, Commissioner? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't think long. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let me go ahead and 18 call Item 12, consider, discuss, and take -- I assume no one 19 else has anything to offer on Item 11? I'll call Item 12; 20 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action for 21 subdividing a 2-acre lot into two 1-acre parcels with a 22 shared driveway located in Precinct 1. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Again, this is the one 24 I was referring to earlier that we're down to 1-acre lots, 25 where the water is provided by -- who are they? 10-11-05 80 1 MR. LAMBERT: Aqua Texas. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Aqua Texas. And road 3 frontage, et cetera, and with soil that I think -- and I'm 4 not going to speak for Miguel, but I think there's probably 5 soil there for a standard septic system. And this -- this 6 thing fits -- in my mind, this thing fits our Subdivision 7 Rules and Regulations, that it can be a 1-acre -- 1-acre 8 lots with a water system. Take it away, Leon -- or Leonard. 9 MR. ODOM: Or Leonardo or anything like that; 10 depends where we're at. Mr. -- Mr. Lambert came in last 11 week to talk to Buster and came to us. And basically what I 12 have, before just passing out what we received -- in the 13 packet was the information that you received, and I just got 14 this today, which is just for your information, because it's 15 not correct. I talked to Brandenburg this morning, but it 16 gives you some insight. Basically, what Mr. Lambert has is 17 a piece of property that's on Town Creek. It's 2 acres, and 18 he has two structures on it. What he wishes to do is do an 19 alternate platting, divide it in half, 1-acre, two lots. 20 And my understanding is that it's contingent on him selling 21 to an individual, these two residences basically going to 22 one lot. He has community water from the Horseshoe Oaks 23 Subdivision, and I believe he has a letter to that fact, 24 that they will supply him water, and already have meters 25 there if it is possible for him to hook up. What we looked 10-11-05 81 1 at, his problem has -- and I told him last week, as the 2 Court directed me several weeks ago, that it would be the 3 5-acre minimum or possibly 2 and a half to 3 acres. What 4 we've discussed today is a 2-acre minimum. Therefore, you 5 could not subdivide it. However, he's got a unique 6 situation. He's got 2 acres. What we looked at was 270 7 foot of frontage. He would have a variance of 130 feet with 8 a shared driveway, and to control access. And that's the -- 9 that discussion basically is what he's bringing to the 10 Court, is to try to see if the Court would give him a 11 variance and take a 2-acre lot, divide it into 1 acre with 12 community water and have a shared driveway, 40 foot, which 13 would control access on Town Creek, which concerns me. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Quick -- okay, Leonard. 15 First of all, I'll just make a comment. We didn't change 16 rules this morning. Our rules are the same as they are. We 17 just granted a waiver this morning. We have not changed our 18 subdivision rules. Our subdivision rules are as they're 19 written, and as they're written, this is perfectly fine. If 20 you're under 5 acres, if there's -- I mean under five lots, 21 it says, clearly, water -- 22 MR. ODOM: One to four. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. Water 24 availability requirements in the paragraph are not 25 applicable for any subdivision with five lots or less. 10-11-05 82 1 MR. ODOM: Right. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So that means you don't 3 have to require any kind of averaging. You go down below 4 it, 1-acre lots, if you're served by water and O.S.S.F. 5 MR. ODOM: But we would need a variance on 6 frontage. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, on frontage. But 8 on the lot size issue, this is in total compliance with our 9 current subdivision rules. 10 MR. ODOM: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's just a variance on 12 frontage, which we've done numerous times. 13 MR. ODOM: Numerous times. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And the frontage, how 15 many feet are we short? 30? 16 MR. ODOM: 70-foot -- we need 200 foot 17 frontage. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right. 19 MR. ODOM: But we're 130, so that's 70 foot 20 on each lot. But we're -- we're taking a combined entrance 21 to be shared and split that, and we control access. And I 22 would -- I would approve the variance. I think is this is 23 the way to do it without having two separate driveways. 24 We've got one driveway. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, this is good. 10-11-05 83 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It works. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is a good thing. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It actually works. 4 MR. ODOM: It works. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 6 MR. ODOM: So Mr. Lambert really needs to 7 know, can we do this? And the answer sounds like that he 8 can. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, I make -- do you want 10 to make a motion? Want me to make a motion? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. I move that we 12 -- well, let's see. Are we here for -- yeah, we do have 13 appropriate action. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: A variance on -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Want to grant a 16 variance on the frontage issue with the driveway down the 17 center, and approval of the -- 18 MR. ODOM: Two 1-acre lots. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's about it, 20 actually, is granting the variance on the frontage footage. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 23 the granting of a variance with regard to the frontage issue 24 on the plat as presented. Any question or discussion? All 25 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 10-11-05 84 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Why 5 don't we be in recess for, oh, about 15 minutes. 6 (Recess taken from 10:42 a.m. to 11 a.m.) 7 - - - - - - - - - - 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order 9 after our mid-morning recess. The next item on the agenda 10 is Item 13, consider and discuss and adopt the National 11 Incident Management System, commonly referred to by the 12 acronym NIMS, as the standard for incident management. 13 Mr. Sheriff? 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, quick and simple. 15 And there's been some talk about this, that the County may 16 have already adopted it years ago, but I can't find that 17 anywhere and haven't seen it. And all it is, is that FEMA 18 and the federal government has come out with a way to set up 19 a standardized incident management system, which is a very 20 good idea in this case, because what it is is more of a 21 common language type system. What you have is -- say there 22 is an emergency management incident here, and it brings in 23 officers from other counties, other jurisdictions like in 24 Louisiana or anything that have to all communicate on the 25 same radio system and are trying to help out. They do away 10-11-05 85 1 with most of the codes -- what we call 10 codes. Because 2 one good example is, in Texas, a 10-50 on a 10 code means 3 there's an automobile accident. In Maryland, a 10-50 means 4 there's an officer in trouble. So, without everybody being 5 on a common language type deal, it can get very confusing 6 when you're using help from different jurisdictions. So, 7 this takes care of that. It kind of sets everybody -- plus, 8 in an incident command situation, you may have the Chief of 9 Police being your -- your incident commander. You may have 10 the Sheriff under that chief doing a certain division, 11 'cause financially, everything's divided out, and they do 12 away with calling them "Chief" or "Sheriff" or anything to 13 get the title stuff away; that we're all actually working 14 one incident, one command, and it's just broken down that 15 way. And so it's -- I think it's needed. I think it's a 16 very good idea. Plus the other little thing is, a lot of 17 your federal grant money and everything on Homeland Security 18 is tied to having this in place. And all of our officers 19 have pretty well been through the NIMS training already. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move Kerr County adopt 21 the National Incident Management System as a standard for 22 incident management. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 25 approval of the agenda item. Any question or discussion? 10-11-05 86 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. I -- just a 2 simple question here. Going -- talking about the 10 3 signals, now, is that -- does that mean that you -- we 4 trash-can all 10 signals and go to a -- 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. The -- the head of 6 Homeland Security, just a few weeks ago at the National 7 Police Chiefs Association, backed off on -- on trashing all 8 of them, 'cause they were going to -- and part of it was 9 total plain English talk on the radios. And I think they 10 got a lot of objections to it in every situation, 'cause 11 some things you do need coded on there. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But in an incident 14 command type situation, you will primarily try to use plain 15 English. Now, in our -- we're redoing our policy and 16 procedures manual now, and I know the City of Kerrville has 17 already done some of theirs, which we will go most of the 18 time now to more of a plain English system and do away with 19 a lot of the codes that you would hear on the radio, just to 20 get everybody in that same habit. Now, there will be some 21 things we all use codes on, but most of it will be plain 22 English so everybody knows what you're talking about. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: During the time of a 24 national emergency, right? Not all the time? 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: This is day-to-day 10-11-05 87 1 operations, because, unfortunately, what you find is you do 2 as you're trained. And if officers are trained in the 10 3 codes all the time and don't use plain English ever, then 4 when you get in a national situation, an emergency 5 situation, they'll go back to doing the 10 codes. So, you 6 try and train them on both. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rusty, is this tied in 8 with -- at all with the emergency management system? 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is part of the 11 emergency management? 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Part of that? 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My recollection is based 16 on what Mark Beavers, the representative for the Chief at 17 our last meeting, said, was that that really had -- the 18 organization of that is as it was set up in -- '83? 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: '87, '83, something like 20 that. '83. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This -- if you would 22 think about that, to me, it seems a lot has changed from 23 '83, and we should look at that reorganization. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I would be the very 25 first one to agree with you on that. I don't know that it's 10-11-05 88 1 my place or -- or my deal to even start trying to change or 2 come to any changes, but just dealing with this last one, I 3 think it's something mainly the County Judge would need to 4 instigate and start and see if there's any changes that 5 y'all want to make in our response and preparedness and how 6 that's done. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're going too far. 8 Okay. That's part of the FEMA -- it's part of the thing. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Bottom line is, if we want to 10 get Homeland Security funding, we need to adopt this, right? 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You're correct. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: That's what I thought. Any 13 further question or discussions on the motion? All in favor 14 of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We'll 19 move to Item 14, consider, discuss, and take appropriate 20 action on Memorandum of Understanding between AACOG, Kerr 21 County Sheriff's Department, and Kerr County Commissioners 22 Court to establish operating, maintenance, training, and 23 security guidelines for the AACOG Regional Law Enforcement 24 Academy Distance Learning Site in the Kerr County Sheriff's 25 Department training room. 10-11-05 89 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And that's pretty well 2 it. We've talked about it quite a bit. This would be one 3 of the first one of these in the state. I think it will be 4 of great benefit to everybody as far as training, and it is 5 a visual training. They're putting in all the equipment. 6 We'll install it all. We'll train. They want two people 7 that are trained to be kind of monitors, so that when there 8 is a training class going on, these two people will know how 9 all the equipment works and be able to work the equipment. 10 And what I have suggested to them on that aspect is that one 11 of those people be from my department, and one of those 12 people be the training coordinator for the Kerrville Police 13 Department, because I think both of us are the two major 14 organizations that will be using it the most and getting it 15 set up. 16 I think it's a fabulous deal. The 17 contractors that will be installing the equipment came down 18 and looked at our room the other day. We've made some 19 adjustments in there, got things ready for them, and 20 everybody's excited to get this going, but we do need this 21 agreement. Now, this agreement was sent to the County 22 Attorney, has been reviewed by the County Attorney. Rex had 23 one concern on it, which was under duties under Number 6, 24 under the Kerr County Sheriff's Department deal, and Number 25 6 is, "Obtain written approval for use of the equipment by 10-11-05 90 1 the Regional Law Enforcement Academy Coordinator or his 2 designee." And Rex's question on that was, who is that? 3 Well, under that type of deal, there is a person that is 4 designated; Mr. Stephen Ramirez right now. So, I don't 5 think we need to have a name put in there. It's a position, 6 'cause it does change with AACOG -- 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's correct. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- from time to time. 9 So, other than that, I think he had no problems with it. It 10 does protect the county, as he put in the memo back to me. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think it's a great 12 deal, Rusty, and I know that the Academy's very happy about 13 it and excited about it. I want -- one question. You have 14 a T-1 line in your budget? 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It is a T-1 equivalent. 16 No, it is not a T-1. Part of our broadband connection; it's 17 already been there. We've talked with Mr. Trolinger about 18 it. He's talked about it with the AACOG people, and 19 everything's up and ready to go at no additional cost. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval of the 21 Memorandum of Understanding between Kerr County and AACOG 22 for the Sheriff's Department for establishing operating, 23 maintenance, training, and security guidelines for the AACOG 24 Regional Law Enforcement Academy Distance Learning Site in 25 Kerr County Sheriff's Department. 10-11-05 91 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 3 approval of the agenda item. I assume that includes my 4 authorization to sign? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: With the Judge's 6 authorization to sign same. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any question or 8 discussion? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Question. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, sir? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How is it paid for? 12 Does AACOG -- is AACOG going to charge us for the services? 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The -- all the 14 equipment, everything, setting it up and installing it is 15 all AACOG's. They've gotten a grant, a couple hundred 16 thousand -- 100,000 to do it all. We won't have any of 17 that. And the big benefit to us will be, in talking with 18 Mr. Ramirez, our charge for sending an officer through a 19 training course will actually drop, particularly because 20 he's not going to San Antonio. He's not going to be using 21 up their distance -- it's a distance deal to where, like, a 22 lot of their courses now cost $100, just for an example, for 23 an officer to take. If he takes the same course here in 24 that room, it may cost $25 just for paper processing. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The tuition will be 10-11-05 92 1 paid by the sending -- by the sending county for any officer 2 coming into training, just as it would be now? As the 3 Sheriff points out, it's a lesser amount because they don't 4 have to go to San Antonio. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is this strictly 7 TCLEOSE certification, or is there some specialized 8 training? 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: This is all the 10 specialized training, different law enforcement courses they 11 have to take. This will not cover a law enforcement 12 academy, where -- where a civilian person gets certified to 13 be a peace officer. That's about a nine-month course. 14 Right now, TCLEOSE and the State has given them permission 15 to do all the in-service, all the updates, all the normal 16 training, but not a full-blown academy to the distance 17 learning deal. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But this would be a 19 part of a full-blown certification. I'm reading here, "Law 20 Enforcement Academy." 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. Right. Say I 22 have an officer that takes their crime scene -- crime scene 23 search, okay, or crime scene reconstruction. Those can be 24 in intermediate, advanced and everything else, or 25 fingerprints. All those kind of courses will be here. But 10-11-05 93 1 for an officer to get certified as a state-certified peace 2 officer, he has to take a basic academy, which lasts about 3 nine months long and is a constant -- one continuous course 4 all the way through it. It will not do that full-blown 5 academy. It will do a lot of the small courses. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay? 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I got some more 9 questions, Rusty. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes, sir? 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: To make sure I 12 understand what we're doing here. This is a remote distance 13 learning program for all of the law enforcement officers 14 under the AACOG governments, like Kerr County. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's correct. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: City of Kerrville. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's correct. Ingram. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And you go to school 19 sitting at a PC over the internet? 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's correct. You go 21 to school -- actually, you're not necessarily just sitting 22 at a PC, okay? This is a large screen that's in the front 23 of our training room. There are microphones in there that 24 each one has on a large screen. It shows -- actually, it's 25 a split screen. It will show students in San Antonio and 10-11-05 94 1 the instructor, okay? And then our -- from their end, it 2 shows our students, and the screen which also -- it's a 3 total interactivity -- you know, interactive type. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So it's not a 5 set-your-own-pace kind of thing? You have to be there at a 6 specific time? 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There is an instructor, 8 you know, standing there teaching the course in San Antonio, 9 so it's those that are actually taught. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I've had occasion to 11 do something like this, maybe even a step further, in the 12 past, and it -- the savings were huge. Somebody in Norway 13 and somebody in Houston could be going to the same school at 14 the same time, and I think we found that the training was 15 better. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, also, the 17 behind-the-scenes advantage and just future thoughts about 18 all this are, with the other item y'all discussed earlier 19 this morning, with the Mounted Peace Officers' proposal, is 20 this system will also have the capability of communicating 21 back and forth with San Antonio with, like, their emergency 22 management. If there were a disaster in San Antonio at some 23 time, this system can be set up to where, like, in our 24 training room, if we had our incident command system or EOC 25 operating, they have direct visual communication between the 10-11-05 95 1 two, 'cause San Antonio's our biggest jeopardy, and which 2 would make it just a fabulous system for everything. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Good point. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Also could be utilized as one 5 segment of a more comprehensive video teleconferencing 6 system. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's correct. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: This is kind of the beginning 9 of that. Any further questions or discussion on the motion? 10 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 11 hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We'll 16 go to Item 15, consider, discuss, and take appropriate 17 action on acceptance of RFQ's. MR. Sheriff? 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, I didn't bring 19 them all over here. As you can tell by the list, we did get 20 a fabulous response from different architectural firms that 21 did send in their RFQ's. It takes up most of one of my 22 closets at the office, so -- because they each had to 23 provide so many copies, so they are still at the office in a 24 closet. Most of them have not been opened, and I'm just 25 needing some direction. We're getting calls on, "Where do 10-11-05 96 1 we go from here?" What's the pleasure of the Court? I know 2 that there has been some talk and consideration and that on 3 whether we'll need to go forward or not. And I will remind 4 the Court that y'all got a study on the jail and a facility 5 needs analysis done by the Jail Commission which recommended 6 immediate preparations to add at least 96 beds, and that 7 recommendation was because of our projected population and 8 where it was going. A lot of it is dealing with female 9 population. 10 I did pull up some statistical data. 11 Starting for the year of 1998, we had an average daily 12 population at the jail of 106. For 1999, it went to 119. 13 In 2000, it went to 142. In 2001, it went to 152. In 2002, 14 it dropped back to 142. In 2003, it was at 142. In 2004, 15 it went to 157. And the average daily count so far is 160. 16 Our 80 percent population, which is recommended to be able 17 to classify them -- we have had some of those problems -- is 18 153, and we're averaging 160 this year. The last time this 19 Court took action in the current jail we built, I think most 20 of y'all will recall that it started in '91, and we didn't 21 open our doors until '95 or '96, so it took about a 22 four-year process. In fours years, I think we're going to 23 be in a very serious situation with housing inmates, and I 24 think we will be housing somewhere, because we will not have 25 the capability of housing them in our facility unless we 10-11-05 97 1 start taking action and do something about it. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One of the things that 3 was brought up at our last meeting, but I'd like to get 4 clarification from the County Attorney on this, the freeze 5 we put on 65 and over, if we put before them a bond issue of 6 this or any other type for the voters of Kerr County and 7 they vote for that, does that -- what -- how does that vote 8 to increase taxes affect that tax freeze? 9 MR. EMERSON: The answer to that is I don't 10 know. I'll find out. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, and I don't know 12 if the State's -- I don't know that you'll get an answer, 13 but I'd like to find out what -- to your best knowledge at 14 the moment -- not today at the moment, but what the answer 15 is, 'cause I think it has a -- it has a big impact. With 16 23 percent, plus or minus, of our citizens frozen, I just 17 don't see how we're going to afford to do it with that big 18 of a freeze. I mean, you know, and that -- and that has a 19 big impact to me as to what step we take next. You know, I 20 think we need a jail, but we may have to house them all out 21 of county until -- I mean, permanently, I just don't see how 22 we can put that much of a tax increase on the -- that small 23 of a segment of the population. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Common sense would say 25 to me that you have to allow everybody to vote. 10-11-05 98 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You have to allow 2 everyone to vote, but the question is, can -- does that 3 freeze -- are they voting for this increase on top of their 4 freeze, or is their freeze frozen? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Their freeze is 6 frozen. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I want him to tell me 8 that. I think that's right, but I think that's -- it's an 9 important point, because it'll greatly change how we do any 10 kind of a -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with you. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, how did it work 13 when K.I.S.D. floated a $38 million bond issue? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, it's different. 15 They have a different -- what froze their taxes is totally 16 different legislation. That's why I want Rex to look into 17 it, 'cause at the last meeting we said it was frozen, I was 18 quoted in the paper as saying, "Well, then we're not getting 19 a jail." I'd like to find out what the answer is, because 20 it has a big impact on this. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, there's a couple 22 things that I think -- one, your quote in the paper, you 23 were quoted -- this is a jail expansion; it's not a jail. 24 Two, I always want to make it very clear that I will be the 25 first one to stand here and tell you that, as Sheriff right 10-11-05 99 1 now, I don't want a bigger jail. I don't want more 2 employees, okay? It's nothing but problems for a Sheriff. 3 But I will also stand here and tell you that going through 4 this before with this county a couple different times, 5 whether it was expansion or building the entire jail, is it 6 is a long process. It will take us a while to get 7 everything figured out to go. I do believe that we will 8 find ourselves in a serious housing situation. I don't know 9 of any Sheriff around, except maybe Milton right now, 'cause 10 he doesn't want to add onto his, and he is housing a bunch 11 out of county. But just the fact that you ship inmates out 12 of county to be housed, it does not alleviate the Court, me, 13 or Kerr County from any liabilities associated with that 14 inmate. If that inmate gets beat up in that jail, commits 15 suicide in that jail, or has a problem with -- one of their 16 employees beats them up, it is still the liability of Kerr 17 County. You cannot put that off on any other county under 18 housing inmates. You're still totally responsible for that 19 inmate, and I don't like being responsible for something I 20 can't control. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I understand. And the 22 other side of that on that same line of thinking, Sheriff, 23 is that we have to pay to send them out of county, and we're 24 paying for it one way or the other. It's just as to -- 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Except that liability 10-11-05 100 1 part, to me, is -- is a very large part. I don't know what 2 to tell -- I have been told that if there is a next step to 3 this, that the next step would be to go through all the 4 RFQ's, start kind of putting them in a first preference, 5 second, third, fourth. You actually label them with a 6 number before you ever even look at costs or -- or anything 7 else. You figure out which one you think is the best, and 8 then second, third, and fourth, and then after that process 9 has been done, then you can pick your first one. You have 10 to go by the number, sit down, negotiate with that one, see 11 if you can come to an agreement over costs or how things are 12 done or -- or anything else with it. If you cannot, then 13 you put that one aside and you have to go to number two. 14 And that's what I had been told and explained by someone as 15 the process. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I believe that's correct. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Not being directly 18 involved in this, I don't know. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: These are the 13 that 20 responded? 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: From all your 23 invitations for RFQ? 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the way to 10-11-05 101 1 proceed is to narrow it down to three, four, five, and then 2 under some criteria -- I mean, you probably -- you're going 3 to be the driver on this, Rusty, as to what the criteria 4 are. If they meet criteria, bring the criteria to the Court 5 and let us talk about it. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I would like to -- if 7 we're going to do that, I would like -- and I don't know if 8 the Court can do it under it -- I think it does take 9 appropriate action to at least put a couple of the 10 Commissioners on a committee, maybe, along with myself to 11 review these and try and put them in that kind of order, if 12 that's what your desire is. I just don't know enough 13 about -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think I'm -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think we probably 16 accept them today, and then we can come back and -- and take 17 care of that item at a future -- next meeting. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let me ask, could -- 19 why isn't the next step deciding whether or not we want to 20 take a bond election to the voters? Shouldn't we make 21 that -- 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Don't know the 23 amount, for one thing. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There's steps. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we have to be -- 10-11-05 102 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We don't know the 2 range or amount. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Number one, you don't 4 know the amount right now, because we haven't decided on the 5 number of beds you want to add. Number two is, I would 6 recommend that if that choice is made -- and I think several 7 of us have seen this, that we set it out at a possible 8 future date so that we can actually have time to show the 9 public -- have drawings, educate the public on the reasons. 10 I think there's going to be a lot of questions on it. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, that's what 12 I'm thinking about. A political reality is that sometime in 13 the next couple years, we may be asking the voters to vote 14 on whether or not they want to raise their ad valorem taxes 15 for a jail, for a library district, for an EMS district, and 16 maybe something else. I don't know. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're right. That's 18 a political reality that -- you're right. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't have any 20 sage advice on it. I just know that it could be a whole lot 21 for us taxpayers to swallow. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're absolutely 23 right. But the beauty of it is that we get to vote, make a 24 decision whether we want to be taxed or not. But I think 25 the step today is accepting. 10-11-05 103 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know about all 3 13, but seems like to me you would accept all 13, and -- and 4 then you put together a smaller list to come back with. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I'll -- 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'd rather we put 7 together a smaller list that we can come back with. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Unless I've been removed, 9 I'm still liaison to the Sheriff. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are you the liaison to 11 the Sheriff, or is the Judge? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm not. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You do it, then. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Letz, do your job. My 15 god, German. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion that 17 we accept all RFQ's that we received related to the jail 18 addition. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to 21 accept the RFQ's as submitted. Any question or discussion? 22 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 23 hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 10-11-05 104 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Item 3 16, consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 4 rescind Court Order Number 29414 adopting Kerr County tax 5 rate for Fiscal Year '05-'06, such order having been 6 superseded by Court Order Number 29415 on October 3, 2005. 7 Commissioner Baldwin. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. This is 9 simply a housecleaning deal, and I move that we rescind 10 Court Order 29414. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 14 rescission of Court Order Number 29414. Any question or 15 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 16 your right hand. 17 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We'll 21 move to item 17, consider and discuss nominations to serve 22 on the Library Advisory Board and make appointments to the 23 Library Advisory Board. Commissioner Nicholson. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think y'all recall 25 that the contract that we negotiated with the City of 10-11-05 105 1 Kerrville redefines the role of the Library Advisory Board 2 and restructures its membership. And it provides that the 3 City will appoint a member of its Council and two others to 4 the board, and the County will appoint a member of its 5 Commissioners Court and two other members to the board, and 6 that Friends of the Library will name a member. I think 7 that's it, isn't it? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mm-hmm. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And so the purpose 10 of this is for us to name a member of the Commissioners 11 Court and two others to the newly reconstituted Library 12 Advisory Board. Among the -- I'm currently serving as 13 liaison. Not a member of the Advisory Board, but 14 Commissioners Court liaison that attends meetings, ad hoc 15 member -- ex-officio. Ex-officio. I'm willing to serve on 16 it, or I'm just as willing for somebody else to serve on it. 17 It -- and it's probably not a matter of interest or 18 willingness as much as what's in the best interest of the 19 board. What -- who could best function in that role? So, 20 we need to discuss that, and we need to get any nominations 21 on the table for the two other members. And I have one 22 nomination to make, and that's Al Schultz. Al is a current 23 member of the Advisory Board. And I somehow think that some 24 continuity is important; that somebody -- some of the 25 members of the board who are there now would be valuable 10-11-05 106 1 as -- as the board changes its role and its mission. And my 2 experience with the board is that Al is -- has got the 3 quality we look for. He cares about literacy. He's got a 4 variety of different experiences, including being a Marine 5 and a prison chaplain and a pastor. And I also have seen 6 that Al is probably the kind of person, working on a team 7 like that, that brings things together; can help the team 8 perform better than it might otherwise. So, I'm -- I'm 9 making that nomination of Al Schultz. I think we have some 10 others. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd like to throw a 12 name into the hat, if you don't mind. This lady also 13 currently serves on the Advisory Board and would look 14 forward to another opportunity, particularly with -- with an 15 enhanced role that we envision of the board, and so I would 16 place into nomination the name of Kay Mosty Hayes. She is a 17 lifelong school teacher, very much interested in the 18 library, had a sister who was the head librarian there for 19 many, many, many years. So, I would ask the Court to 20 consider Kay Mosty Hayes. Could I also include in that 21 motion, Judge, that the Court nominate Commissioner 22 Nicholson to continue to serve representing Kerr County 23 Commissioners Court? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're making an 25 actual motion? 10-11-05 107 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, a nomination or 2 whatever. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Whatever is proposed. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Might be best if we -- if we 7 bifurcate this thing and do the Commissioners Court rep in 8 one piece of business, and then -- 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's fine. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: -- these other individuals, 11 citizens selected by the Court, in another. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. I had 13 recommended Mr. Baker, as you see in the backup in our -- 14 behind our item here, but I am withdrawing him -- his name. 15 I had a conversation with him yesterday, and -- and feel 16 like this continuity issue that Number 4 just brought up 17 is -- I think that we're kind of in a critical time right 18 now with the library, and I think it was -- it would be -- 19 wouldn't be real conducive to throw brand new blood into it 20 at this point, so I want to withdraw Mr. Baker. But I -- 21 I'm with Number 2 here. Again, because of the continuity 22 issue, that Commissioner Nicholson is much more in tune with 23 this thing than we are, and I would appreciate him serving 24 on that board as well. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On the -- I agree to 10-11-05 108 1 support Commissioner Nicholson from the Court. On the 2 nomination side, I have another name. John Huddleston, 3 who's a member of the Friends, so he's familiar with the 4 library. He's spent a lot of time. I visited with him 5 several times about, you know, the library. He certainly 6 is, I think, qualified from his previously serving on 7 Kerrville City Council. But, I mean, I don't have a problem 8 with Reverend Schultz or Ms. Hayes either. I mean, I think 9 any of them would do a good job. I -- I would, in any 10 event, whether -- any of those three, in my mind, would do a 11 good job. But while I think it's good to have continuity, 12 and I think there's some continuity with all three of those 13 names, because they've all been associated with the library, 14 I think new blood is also an important factor here. And are 15 these terms one year? Two years? Staggered? 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: They're staggered. 17 We start off with some one-year and some two-year, and then 18 we'll get into sync after that. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. I mean, I think 20 that the -- you know, and I don't want to, you know, offend 21 people down the road. I think that, you know, I would like 22 the continuity issue right now, but I also like the idea of 23 bringing new people on. So these may be -- I don't -- I 24 want it real clear to the people that we choose, any of 25 those three, that they may be only there for one term, 10-11-05 109 1 because I think we do need some new blood into the -- 2 potentially into it. Not that -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are they going to 4 draw straws for terms? 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We don't spell that 6 out in the contract. I suppose they'll -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Whoever gets the short 8 straw -- 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I haven't thought 10 about that. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Whoever gets the short 12 straw gets two years? (Laughter.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Drawing of lots. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Could be. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Benham was motioning to be 16 recognized. 17 MR. BENHAM: With permission, gentlemen, for 18 the record, Joseph Benham, 522 Rolling Green in Commissioner 19 Williams' precinct, and here on behalf of the Friends of the 20 Library. I can't think of a better person than John 21 Huddleston to be on this new board, but you do need to know 22 one thing. He is an officer of the Friends, and our current 23 bylaws prohibit an officer of the Friends from also serving 24 on the Advisory Board. We're in the process of getting that 25 changed, but our annual meeting isn't until the third week 10-11-05 110 1 in November, so John would -- if he came on board as a 2 member of this board immediately, he would have to resign as 3 an officer in the Friends. And I can't speak for which he'd 4 rather do, be on this board or be an officer of the Friends. 5 That's his call, but I thought you should be aware of that 6 situation. Up to now, the -- under the old board, the 7 president of the Friends was automatically an ex-officio 8 member of this board, just as a member of the County 9 Commission, a member of the City Council were. But the new 10 structure, of course, calls for a representative of the 11 Friends to become a voting member of the board, and 12 therefore, we'd have to change our bylaws. But which one of 13 the jobs Dr. Huddleston would choose to -- would choose to 14 accept, I -- I don't know. And I can't call him out at 15 Schreiner 'cause he's in class at the moment, but I did 16 think you ought to be aware of it. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Benham, is -- assuming 18 that your organization makes the appropriate changes that 19 appear to be necessary in order to designate a Friends 20 representative on the board -- 21 MR. BENHAM: Mm-hmm. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: -- certainly one possibility 23 would be that Mr. Huddleston could serve in both capacities. 24 MR. BENHAM: Sure. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: With those changes. 10-11-05 111 1 MR. BENHAM: Sure. Once we've changed our 2 bylaws, it would be -- anybody on the board could serve in 3 both capacities, and I would, in fact, see some merit in 4 that. But I don't like to make that call on behalf of the 5 organization. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I understand. 7 MR. BENHAM: I like what you had to say 8 personally. But thank you for your time. I did think you 9 ought to be aware of that situation. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are you going to meet -- 11 excuse me -- in November? 12 MR. BENHAM: The annual meeting is the third 13 week in November, yes. There will be a board meeting 14 between now and then to approve the bylaws -- new wording 15 for the bylaws to be submitted to the Friends membership, 16 but it will be voted on at the annual meeting in November. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The -- I just wanted 18 to say that Dr. Huddleston has voiced some interest in 19 serving on this board, and let him make the decision. 20 MR. BENHAM: Yeah. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If he wants to resign 22 or -- 23 MR. BENHAM: Well, you won't find anybody 24 who'll work any harder than he will, I can guarantee you 25 that. 10-11-05 112 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: True. He is -- 2 MR. BENHAM: But, again, it's his call. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He is, and he's been 4 around that library a long, long time. 5 MR. BENHAM: Yeah. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- like I said 7 previously, I don't have any problem with Ms. Hayes and 8 Reverend Schultz, so it may be just as simple to make those 9 two appointments, and let Mr. Huddleston represent the 10 Friends, or they can rotate at some -- at a future date. I 11 mean, 'cause he won't be able to serve until after November 12 now. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. I'll make a 14 motion that we nominate -- that we assign Kay Mosty Hayes 15 and Al Schultz as our two citizen members of the Library 16 Advisory Board. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that 19 our citizen representatives on the Library Board be 20 designated -- 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: -- as Kay Mosty Hayes and Al 23 Schultz. Any questions or discussion on the motion? All in 24 favor of that motion, signify by raising your right hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10-11-05 113 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'll notify 5 Mr. Schultz, Commissioner, if you'll notify Ms. Hayes. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't think we need to 7 notify Reverend Schultz. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Already got my job 9 done, Commissioner. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll take that 12 responsibility and do that. 13 MR. SCHULTZ: Pardon me, sir. One question. 14 Which one of us is one year and which one of us is two 15 years? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Y'all are going to draw lots 17 over there, probably. And I'll trust you, with your good 18 luck that you possess normally, to come out on top of that 19 arrangement. 20 MR. SCHULTZ: In other words, I'm going to be 21 shot. Okay. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I've got to 23 introduce a motion on this agenda item for the Court to 24 appoint Commissioner Nicholson as its representative -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 10-11-05 114 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- to this board. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to 3 designate Commissioner Dave Nicholson as the Kerr County 4 Commissioners Court representative to the Library Advisory 5 Board. Any question, discussion on the motion? 6 MR. SCHULTZ: One quick question. I know 7 what the public thinks by the newspapers, all the rhetoric, 8 but really, Mr. Nicholson's going to make a good 9 representative for you. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. Any other 11 questions or comments? All in favor of the motion, signify 12 by raising your right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We 17 will move to Item 18, consider, discuss, and take 18 appropriate action on the problems with the new air 19 conditioning at the Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center. Mr. 20 Letz. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I put this on the agenda, 22 and I see Glenn here. I'll turn it over to him. I put it 23 on because I received several complaints about the air 24 conditioning wasn't cooling. Granted, they were -- granted, 25 they came when it was pretty hot outside, but I just thought 10-11-05 115 1 that considering we just have spent a lot of money on a new 2 system out there, I wanted to make sure that while we're 3 under the warranty period, that we make sure that 4 everything's been addressed and is working appropriately. 5 Glenn? 6 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes. And I appreciate the 7 opportunity to come before y'all. There's -- I did a little 8 written explanation and handed it to you. Didn't get it 9 completed until yesterday, so I was unable to give it to 10 you. But -- and I'll go over this for the... The outside 11 temperature on the 24th of September during the Hill Country 12 District Junior Livestock Show fundraiser, the temperature 13 outside was right at 100 degrees. That was that Saturday 14 before the Sunday that we broke all the records. Indoor 15 arena was about the same temperature, which was rather 16 oppressive because of the humidity in there. Doors were 17 opened into the indoor arena and outside wash rack area for 18 caterers to bring -- cook and bring food into the exhibit 19 hall. Inside the exhibit hall, several heat lamps were 20 placed above the food by food caterers. Thermostats before 21 the event were set at 70 degrees -- and possibly they should 22 have been lower, but that was my fault -- and were holding 23 until the event started. 24 And the event starting is when -- I'm saying 25 is when they started opening doors, and they chose to play 10-11-05 116 1 some kind of -- some kind of game called cow patty bingo, 2 which was in the indoor arena, a large area where they had a 3 cow running around. So -- and I think she was required to 4 make a deposit in a certain area. (Laughter.) So, a County 5 Maintenance representative asked the event organizer's 6 representative if there was anything he could do to help 7 them, and he was told that somebody knew how to unlock the 8 lockout codes on the thermostats, and they started changing 9 settings, which you go downhill once you start doing that 10 when it's already warming up. And, as I wrote in here, I 11 choose to blame no one but myself, and -- and I mean that, 12 is that I -- I've learned to try to trust people to do what 13 is prudent. Obviously, we are going to have to go with 14 another kind of locking device on these thermostats, and 15 possibly have security make sure that they're not touched by 16 anyone other than us. So, okay, that's on that one. 17 So -- well, of course, it started warming up 18 in that building at that point, and there was -- it was too 19 late to turn back then. So, all right. Then on October 20 3rd -- and I got a heads-up from Commissioner Williams, I 21 think it was, on approximately the 26th or 27th about, well, 22 we have a big event coming on October the 3rd, which was the 23 telephone annual meeting, Hill Country Telephone. Well, I 24 made some adjustments and I documented everything we did. 25 We set the thermostats at 68 degrees at 2 o'clock in the 10-11-05 117 1 afternoon. Temperature at 5 o'clock in the exhibit hall was 2 68 degrees. Doors were opened to the indoor arena at 5 p.m. 3 to register and serve dinner until 8 p.m. Doors were closed 4 with more than 800 people inside until 9:30 p.m., and then 5 the temperature averaged on the unit 75 degrees when the 6 people began to leave that evening, so it had warmed up 7 approximately 7 degrees with doors open and 800 -- over 800 8 people in there. There's a letter in here I got from Hill 9 Country Telephone; it's the second page, explaining their 10 issue. And then the summary of it, the door management, 11 heating devices, exhibit hall, and outside temperature of 12 over 100 degrees, plus tampering with equipment. I 13 personally think that's a recipe for failure. This was not 14 an equipment failure or inadequate equipment problem. It 15 was -- it was several errors made. The number one is -- is 16 we need to have total control of those thermostats. We 17 cannot allow people messing with them. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Glenn, two weeks 19 prior to the Hill Country District Junior Livestock Show 20 fundraiser -- 21 MR. HOLEKAMP: Mm-hmm. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- 4-H had its 23 meeting out there, Extension. 24 MR. HOLEKAMP: That's correct. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And what was the 10-11-05 118 1 problem that night? Because it was unbearably hot that 2 night as well. 3 MR. HOLEKAMP: Air-conditioners were turned 4 on as normal prior to the event. I think it was, like, 5 2:30, 3:00. They were set at 70. Everybody becomes an 6 expert. They went along and they pushed buttons thinking 7 they were lowering the temperature, but what they did is 8 they turned off the air conditioners but left fans on. The 9 fans were running, but no air, so all it was doing was 10 circulating the air that had been cooled. So -- and as I 11 said, is -- is I'm not blaming. I'm -- I'm willing to -- 12 we've -- in fact, I've ordered some lockboxes. I know 13 they're easy to get into, but everywhere there's 14 thermostats, everybody becomes an expert, whether they are 15 or not. And as y'all understand, volunteers -- you know, 16 they mean well, but these -- these systems nowadays are real 17 sensitive. Once you shut them down, you get behind the 18 curve, so to speak. It doesn't really matter what you do; 19 it's too late once that's been tampered with. 20 So, I -- I think that after the hill -- or 21 before the Hill Country Telephone, I took it seriously on my 22 part to manage it. I made everybody aware that -- the 23 organizers of the Hill Country Telephone, that we're going 24 to set the temperatures; that you manage your doors as best 25 you can, to -- to not leave them open any longer. Now, 10-11-05 119 1 granted, it was not quite as hot that evening. I think it 2 was 80's or something like that. But any time you use the 3 indoor arena, you're either sucking the hot air out or 4 you're blowing the cold air in, and that is way too many 5 cubic feet to handle, even those air-conditioners. The 6 air-conditioners, we've had some warranty stuff done. We 7 call them. They show up, and they've corrected it. We've 8 had some drain line issues, condensation line, because we've 9 had to use a pump to -- to take that water out of those 10 pans, and we've had some issues with that. But, overall, 11 they have performed -- I thought the way they performed for 12 the Hill Country Telephone annual meeting -- I was 13 impressed. I did not know, with that many bodies, we could 14 maintain even 75, 76. I was amazed. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess my question I 16 have is that the -- sounds like we figured out what was 17 causing the big problems, but while 100 degrees is unusual 18 in October -- 19 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- it's certainly not 21 unusual for July and August. And it sounds to me like that 22 we need to really let the -- whoever's running that facility 23 be aware that in hot periods, if they're using more than one 24 door, I mean, it's likely not going to stay very cool. 25 Because it seems to me that, I mean, the problem -- the Hill 10-11-05 120 1 Country Telephone Co-op meeting, it was such a function 2 where it could be pretty much locked down, where the -- it 3 was. Well, you go to some of these other fundraisers -- 4 events that use this, like trade shows, they're walking -- 5 doors are going to be open there. So you're saying there's 6 really no way to keep it cool during events when the 7 arena -- when there's a lot of traffic going in and out 8 throughout the event, especially if it's 100 degrees? 9 MR. HOLEKAMP: Well, I'd like to think at 10 some point in time, we can do a little better job with the 11 door management, and door management is -- is a key. You 12 know, like Walmart or -- and I'm just using that as a -- 13 banks. They use a two-door lock system where you open one; 14 the other one is still closed, and people come and go. We 15 may get to that point where we put glass doors at the 16 entrance to the restroom area, and then put one on the other 17 side where there's a -- a roll-down door past the restrooms. 18 What I'm saying is, there -- there are mechanisms that we 19 might be able to use. It's money. But door management, I 20 think, was probably a lot of our problems. And I'm not 21 talking about the front doors. The front doors, you let 22 people in and the door closes again. But when you leave 23 them open for two or three hours or whatever it is, I -- I 24 had a person stationed at the door at the Hill Country 25 Telephone, and as -- as soon as they were through 10-11-05 121 1 registering those people, we closed them. And -- and I 2 think -- I think door management, whether it be -- and I 3 think you said it properly. I think the people that 4 organize these events and stuff really need to listen at 5 times, you know. We don't like to muscle everybody, 6 because, you know they're paying rent or -- well, in the 7 case of Hill Country Youth Exhibit -- I mean the stock show, 8 they don't, but they have a right to that facility, to 9 utilize it, and the air conditioning too. So -- so, I 10 guess -- and then 4-H, they have so many events in that -- 11 in fact, now we're doing BB gun two evenings a week. It's 12 very impractical for me to -- to keep people over to watch 13 them. I mean, we're talking about a lot of overtime hours, 14 staff -- personnel, if we have to be there for all the 4-H 15 events too. We normally tell the event organizers, if you 16 wish to call them that, or coordinators, "Air conditioners 17 are set; just leave them alone and we'll turn them off in 18 the morning." Which is fine. I mean, they work off 19 thermostats anyway. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I got a couple of 22 questions. 23 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: First one is to 25 Gerard. When you -- as a reporter covering the city, did 10-11-05 122 1 you ever have conversations about cow patties and deposits? 2 MR. MACCROSSAN: No, sir. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. "No" is the 4 answer, right? 5 MR. MACCROSSAN: Definitely not. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Welcome to home. Man, 7 this is home stuff. 8 MR. HOLEKAMP: Well, I found it to be a 9 rather interesting game. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It is a very 11 interesting conversation. 12 MR. HOLEKAMP: Uh-huh. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, what I'm hearing 14 you say, we don't have an air conditioning problem? 15 MR. HOLEKAMP: In my opinion, there is no air 16 conditioning problem. It is a -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what I wanted 18 to hear. 19 MR. HOLEKAMP: It is -- I'm taking the 20 responsibility of not managing those thermostats properly -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Lock them up. 22 MR. HOLEKAMP: -- indoors. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Lock them up, put a 24 cage on them. Put somebody out there with an AR-15 to guard 25 them. 10-11-05 123 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Two items. 2 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: What I'm hearing you say is 4 that the equipment is operating properly? 5 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Secondly, did Kerr County get 7 what it paid for in the equipment that is there operating 8 properly? 9 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. In fact, it 10 exceeded the -- the amount that we went out for bids. It 11 exceeded it. We went out for bids for 50 tons, and we got 12 55. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: For the 50-ton price? 14 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess, I mean, I don't 17 -- I'm not -- I never was making the issue whether we got 18 what we paid for. My question that I had was that -- was it 19 a wise use of taxpayers' money to air condition a building 20 that's very hard to -- I mean, the reason was so we could 21 use it during the summer months, and what I'm hearing is 22 that we now have a problem; we've spent however much money, 23 and we haven't totally solved the problem. And it's not 24 because of the air conditioner. It's because maybe we 25 should have done some more thinking before we spent that 10-11-05 124 1 money on the air conditioning, because it was -- like some 2 members of the Court, I think, voiced, it was a good thing 3 to spend a bunch of money on at that time without fixing the 4 real problem, which is the building, and we found out that 5 that's correct. 6 MR. HOLEKAMP: I'd like to ask a question, 7 though. Do -- as part of our -- our rules and stuff, do we 8 have the authority to tell people to keep their hands off? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think so. 10 MR. HOLEKAMP: I mean, we try to verbalize 11 that to them, but obviously they don't hear or don't care to 12 hear. So, you know, I -- that -- that's going to be a 13 problem. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We do. We also lock 15 them up and make them unaccessible. 16 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes. In fact, those lockouts 17 -- those lockups have already been ordered. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 19 MR. HOLEKAMP: To place on those poles. All 20 right? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else on that 22 particular item? Let's go to Item 19, consider, discuss, 23 and take appropriate action to authorize County Treasurer to 24 prepare a bid package of employee health benefits for 25 provision of insurance agent-slash-services. Commissioner 10-11-05 125 1 Baldwin. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, sir. You 3 remember a month or two ago, I brought this issue to this 4 table to see if we couldn't streamline our process some. 5 And I want to say at the outset again that I have no problem 6 with anybody that's doing business with us today. I just 7 believe that it would be easier on all the county family to 8 have someone -- an agent that is local that can physically 9 come to this building when needed to help us in all of our 10 insurance issues. I have -- I really am really 11 uncomfortable with County employees talking to people about 12 insurance options. I know we're not selling insurance, but 13 I just -- I'm uncomfortable with that. It just doesn't seem 14 like the right thing that County employees should be doing. 15 So, to -- to fix that, I think that -- that we need to have 16 a local agent that can meet those needs, and when I brought 17 this up a month or so ago, whenever it was, Mr. Wallace was 18 kind enough to -- to come to Kerrville and hire -- hire 19 someone inside the City of Kerrville to assist us as his 20 employee, to assist us in that -- with that issue, and to 21 help -- help us with the new hires and all those insurance 22 type questions. Now, in our backup there's some notes here 23 from the County Treasurer's office to me talking about all 24 these things. And second page, in Item Number 3, it says, 25 "Our office does not know the name of the agent Mr. Wallace 10-11-05 126 1 hired to help us locally." So, Mr. Wallace was nice enough 2 to hire this person, but it's -- by reading that, what that 3 says to me is that that person hasn't been over here to do 4 anything. I mean, we don't even know who it is. I remember 5 the name and I remember seeing it in the -- in the minutes 6 when I read them, but it appears to me that the County 7 Treasurer's office does not know who that person is. So, 8 again, what that says to me is that this system is not 9 working. I just think that we owe it to the taxpayers to go 10 out for bids and see what the different pricing is, see what 11 kind of services would be offered by a different agent. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm confused. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me finish my 14 sentence. I just think it would be good for the -- to the 15 taxpayers for us to go out and find out what the -- the 16 pricing would be and what the different services can be 17 offered by different agents in this area. Now, if 18 Mr. Wallace comes in as the best price and the best service, 19 so be it. I just think it would be a fair thing to open it 20 up and take a look and see what's out there. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My confusion is, your 22 agenda says to authorize County Treasurer to prepare a bid 23 package. I thought we hired Mr. Looney to do that. That's 24 my confusion as to -- I'm trying to figure out what we're 25 trying to do. 10-11-05 127 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. "Bid package" 2 may not be the proper terminology. I don't -- I don't know 3 what the proper terminology is. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, what you're trying to 5 accomplish, you want us to get information to Mr. Looney 6 for -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. No, I'm not 8 asking Mr. Looney to do anything. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, if we're going to 10 bid our insurance again, we need to decide -- and if we want 11 the insurance company that's going to take -- that we award 12 that contract to to do these things, this has to be in the 13 -- Mr. Looney has to tell the people they're bidding on 14 doing this work. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're not bidding 16 insurance. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Aren't we? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm talking about -- 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Items 1 through 5 up 20 here on this letter. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm talking about -- 22 aren't we going -- aren't we rebidding insurance this year? 23 The coverage? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He recommended not to. 25 MR. LOONEY: Well, we may rebid portions of 10-11-05 128 1 it, yes, for the process of insurance coverage. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm not talking about 4 insurance. I'm talking about our agent that handles 5 different things for us. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess I look at it as 7 we've hired Mr. Looney. I'm just trying to -- the procedure 8 is that the Treasurer's doing this, or is Mr. Looney doing 9 it? Because we've hired Mr. Looney to do this type of 10 stuff, to me. And if we're trying to amend -- get a package 11 that makes us have a local agent and do all this stuff, I 12 have no problem with that, but I think Mr. Looney is the one 13 that needs to tell us what to do and how to do it. I don't 14 think it's -- I think we're going to get very confused if we 15 have the Treasurer doing part of the insurance bidding and 16 Mr. Looney doing part of the bidding. I just think it needs 17 to be -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Doesn't have anything 19 to do with insurance coverage. It has to do with the agent. 20 What -- what are all the -- what are the duties that our 21 insurance agent does? 22 MS. NEMEC: He's here, if he wants to answer 23 that question. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm asking you. 25 MS. NEMEC: What are the duties that we do? 10-11-05 129 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Uh-huh, that we want 2 our agent to do. 3 MS. NEMEC: Oh, that we want our -- that they 4 do? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Want. 6 MS. NEMEC: I would just -- I would just like 7 to see -- I would just like to see any interested insurance 8 agent that would like to be the County's agent to give us a 9 list of services that they're willing to provide with a 10 price and compare what our best options are. I mean, 11 there's everything from enrollment to -- to COBRA, HIPAA, 12 terminations, inquiries. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, what you want to do 14 is contract out the entire portion of insurance that your 15 office currently handles? 16 MS. NEMEC: We already do that. It's already 17 contracted out. It's just other insurance agents are 18 interested in -- in bidding on it. Agents, not insurance 19 companies. The agents. There have been several agents that 20 have notified us -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What I'm saying is, you 22 don't want your office to do this work? 23 MS. NEMEC: I'm not sure what you mean by "do 24 this work." 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, you're saying that 10-11-05 130 1 agents are going to do -- you want -- you're saying that 2 right now you're having to do this stuff, and you want to 3 find an agent that will do it for you? 4 MS. NEMEC: No, I just want to know what 5 services are out there that is best for the taxpayers of 6 this county. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- I mean, I'm 8 not arguing with anyone. I'm just trying to understand what 9 y'all want. And I don't -- 10 MS. NEMEC: We want to see what options are 11 out there. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So you want someone else 13 to do this -- to do COBRA and HIPAA and enrollments and 14 that? 15 MS. NEMEC: If it's within the reasonable fee 16 that we're paying now. If someone can do all that for what 17 we're paying now someone not to do it, then of course I do. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask the 19 question. 20 MS. NEMEC: As we were doing before. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do we -- are we paying 22 our agent to do these things, in your opinion? It's 23 12 o'clock. 24 MS. NEMEC: In my opinion -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Barbecue's calling. 10-11-05 131 1 MS. NEMEC: -- I mean, we're paying him, but 2 they're not doing it. They're -- it's not under their 3 contract to do this -- these things. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 5 MS. NEMEC: To where it is available. That 6 is -- 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why aren't they? 8 MS. NEMEC: That is what the proposal was. 9 That's what -- we're paying them to be our agent, but this 10 agent -- this particular agent does not provide those type 11 of services to where I have been told that other agents are 12 willing to. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mr. Looney -- I think I'd 14 like to hear from him, 'cause he's the person we've hired to 15 handle our insurance. 16 MR. LOONEY: Judge, Gary Looney, consultant. 17 If I can give a quick civic lesson, then I can -- which is 18 the wrong thing for me to attempt to do to begin with, but 19 that's not mine. But we have elected officials. Elected 20 officials, by statute, are given direction on pretty much 21 how to manage their different departments. Part of that 22 function is hiring and firing of employees based on job 23 descriptions that they create. Again, partially by statute. 24 We have an Auditor then that oversees the budget 25 responsibilities of those different offices to make sure 10-11-05 132 1 that those job positions are completed and they're paid 2 properly in that area, and then we have a payroll function. 3 The payroll function is not necessarily the result of a 4 statutory direction. Therefore, payroll functions become 5 the direction of the Court, since it's not by statute. 6 So, the payroll functions include the process 7 of maintaining the payroll in relationship to any deductions 8 or reductions that are made by contributions by employees 9 for various insurance plans, so you end up with two 10 different concepts. One, you have voluntary insurance 11 products for employees where employees are selecting a 12 product based on a presentation by an agent that is selling 13 a product on a salary deduction or salary reduction basis to 14 your employees. You also have an employer-sponsored 15 product, which is the Mutual of Omaha group health insurance 16 plan, which is inclusive of the life insurance plan. 17 Maintaining all of those deductions, or maintaining those 18 salary reductions or whatever is the responsibility of 19 payroll. Payroll then has been delegated to the Treasurer's 20 office. Is that -- that's correct. 21 So, you have one agent that is dealing with 22 the Mutual of Omaha relationships of employee relationship, 23 and then you have various other agents that are dealing with 24 voluntary plans, so, Mr. Baldwin, I'm not sure who you're 25 asking to replace or substitute or -- or change. So, you 10-11-05 133 1 have multiple agents that are currently dealing with the 2 organization itself. Now, there's some things that you 3 cannot delegate. HIPPA administration and COBRA 4 administration are things that are statutorily -- federal 5 statutes -- an employer law. It's an employer regulation, 6 employer law. Now, you can hire someone to perform that 7 service for you, which is what we've done with HIPAA and 8 COBRA under Mutual of Omaha, but under our contract for 9 hiring them, they assume the liability and the risk for 10 handling those COBRA notifications and COBRA -- HIPAA 11 certifications properly. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask -- make 13 sure I understand what you're saying here. That federal law 14 says that we're required to -- 15 MR. LOONEY: Employer -- employer law. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand that. 17 But we have hired someone to handle the HIPAA and the COBRA 18 issues for us. 19 MR. LOONEY: Part of the -- part of the 20 contractual agreement with Mutual of Omaha is for them to 21 manage the COBRA and HIPAA certification process. The 22 responsibility of the employer is to notify of the 23 employee's termination on a timely basis. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 25 MR. LOONEY: That's what the employer is 10-11-05 134 1 required to do. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that what we're 3 doing? 4 MS. NEMEC: Well, we are -- we hadn't been 5 when we had the other agent. The agent was doing it, and 6 there are local agents who will do that for us, and they 7 will put in their contract that they are responsible, which 8 takes the responsibility -- liability out of the County to 9 perform those services for us. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But our responsibility 11 -- it's our responsibility. 12 MR. LOONEY: It's an employer regulation. 13 And the one thing that you have to do is notify whomever is 14 the administrator, whoever accepts that liability, and the 15 -- the County has to notify them of the termination. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Uh-huh. 17 MS. NEMEC: And with the previous insurance, 18 our local agent was the administrator. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. So, it's 20 primarily our concern to take care of the HIPAA and the 21 COBRA issues? 22 MR. LOONEY: Very much so. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But we can -- we can 24 contract with someone else? 25 MR. LOONEY: You can contract with someone 10-11-05 135 1 else to do it, but you still have the obligation of 2 notification of termination. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Notification to who? 4 MR. LOONEY: To whomever -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To the insurance -- 6 MR. LOONEY: To whomever you're delegating 7 this COBRA authority. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have to notify Mutual 9 of Omaha currently. 10 MR. LOONEY: Currently, you're notifying 11 Mutual of Omaha on a COBRA circumstance involving an 12 employee who is terminated under the medical plan. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. So, is Mutual 14 of Omaha administering COBRA and HIPAA, or is Kerr County 15 administering COBRA and HIPAA? 16 MR. LOONEY: Two different -- two different 17 obligations. One is notification, one is administration. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 19 MR. LOONEY: Notification -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We are not 21 administering. 22 MR. LOONEY: Notification by the County, 23 administration by Mutual of Omaha. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 25 MS. NEMEC: And the administration is only if 10-11-05 136 1 someone chooses to elect COBRA. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 3 MS. NEMEC: And I don't know that we have 4 anybody that has chosen that. Maybe one employee. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, that clarifies 6 that. That's good. That's good. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions for 8 Mr. Looney? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess, evidently, 10 there's confusion somewhere, 'cause it's on the agenda. And 11 we're going to -- and we're going out for bids, I thought, 12 though I'm not sure about that any more. Is there something 13 that we can do to make this simpler or make it clearer, or 14 -- or solve the problems? I mean, I don't -- I still -- I 15 don't understand -- the Treasurer is doing something that 16 she doesn't feel she should be doing. 17 MS. NEMEC: No, that is not correct. 18 Commissioner Letz, that is not correct. I have been 19 approached -- this is the problem here, and it's not even a 20 problem. I have been approached by local agents who wish to 21 bid on our insurance as agents. They have told me the 22 services that they can provide the -- where we need to come 23 from, and we owe it to the taxpayers to see if other agents 24 can provide more services than what we're gaining right now 25 for the -- for what we're paying. Simple as that. 10-11-05 137 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I'm trying to 2 figure out -- what are you -- 3 MS. NEMEC: That's where -- that's where the 4 bid process -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What are the services? 6 MS. NEMEC: That's where the bid process 7 comes in. Each local agent should send us what services 8 they are willing to provide and how much the cost is going 9 to be, and let the Court decide on who to award it to. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess I'm -- I don't 11 know why you're mad at me, but I'm trying to find out. You 12 keep on -- you -- by your tone, something's not being done, 13 or something -- 14 MS. NEMEC: No. I want to see options. I 15 want to see options to see if -- if these local agents are 16 going to provide services that we were being provided before 17 Mutual of Omaha and Don Wallace -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What are those services? 19 That's what I'm trying to figure out. What is not being 20 provided by Mutual of Omaha that was being provided that 21 agents want to provide? 22 MS. NEMEC: An enrollment office, to where 23 employees can go across the street or two streets down -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They want a local agent? 25 MS. NEMEC: Yes. 10-11-05 138 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's it? 2 MS. NEMEC: Employees want to deal with a 3 local agent. They want to be able to go into someone's 4 office the minute they have a problem and the minute that 5 EOB comes in, and they want to be helped. They don't want 6 to have to talk to 50 different people every time they call 7 Mutual of Omaha. They want one person to -- you know, the 8 Sheriff's Office -- we get employee calls from them all the 9 time, and just employees around the county that -- 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, you want us to put in 11 our bid package that you have to be a local agent? 12 MS. NEMEC: Not have to be, but -- 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Jonathan, I think I can 14 explain somewhat. The biggest problem -- and my department, 15 being one of the biggest, suffers a lot of it. My employees 16 feel lost. If we hire somebody new, they're trying to 17 have -- their options and all that are trying to be 18 explained by the Treasurer. They don't have anybody they 19 can sit down with. Not that they don't want Mutual of 20 Omaha. That's fine, but they don't know -- what option do I 21 take? Is this better? Is this worse? An employee is not 22 an insurance agent to be able to explain the pros and cons 23 of each different option, or the HIPAA stuff. It's -- 24 before -- and I'm not saying yea or nay to anybody. Before, 25 when I hired a new employee and they had an insurance -- you 10-11-05 139 1 know, they had to get insurance, they were given a certain 2 deadline, an amount of time to go by to a local agent and 3 sit down with that agent, and that agent explained all the 4 options, what they're going to enroll in, what the County's 5 going to enroll in, what they can take and can't take, and 6 made it very simple for the employee to understand. 7 If they had a bill come in from a hospital, 8 you know, that said we're not paying this, okay, the 9 insurance company has rejected it, they had somebody they 10 could go sit down, take that bill, call and talk to and ask, 11 "Why aren't they paying this? What's the deal?" It may 12 just be their deductible wasn't met, but employees are like 13 that. Right now, they -- they -- and not knocking Mr. -- 14 okay, they call on the telephone and they get -- not really 15 a run-around, but it just goes through -- they may have to 16 make four or five calls; they may have to talk to four or 17 five different people. It's gotten very confusing, and a 18 lot of people don't know what their actual coverage is, 19 'cause they have nobody they can sit down and talk to. And 20 it's the local -- it's not the insurance company. It's just 21 having somebody locally that can help them get through all 22 this process. And it's not just new hires. It's a 23 continuing deal. It's the HIPAA deal; it's the COBRA part. 24 And it's just to be there for them when they need a question 25 answered. 10-11-05 140 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's what I said. You 2 want a local -- you want us to say you have to be a local 3 agent. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, not have to be. But 5 I -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, what? 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What I'm understanding 8 -- what I'm understanding, Jonathan, is -- is he can still 9 be the agent, but there is a local representative that deals 10 with Mutual of Omaha that actually sits down and helps them 11 by keeping the employees satisfied, and not a long distance 12 phone call and all that. 13 MS. NEMEC: Which Mr. Wallace offered to do. 14 We just hadn't taken any action on it, so that never came 15 through. But, however, now there are other local agents who 16 would also like to bid on it. That's the only reason we're 17 here. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm not understanding 19 your last comment. Mr. Wallace offered to do it; we didn't 20 take him up on it. How does that comport with Number 3 in 21 this thing that "our office does not know the name of the 22 agent that Mr. Wallace hired to help us locally"? I'm -- 23 MS. NEMEC: Okay. Because -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Something's missing 25 here. 10-11-05 141 1 MS. NEMEC: We were -- well, Mr. Wallace had 2 called and asked us -- or asked me to have a meeting, but at 3 that time the Court -- when we discussed it, the feel that I 4 got from the Court, and then I talked to Commissioner 5 Baldwin, was that we were going to wait until the bid 6 process to -- to hire someone either locally or, you know, 7 under Mr. Wallace, or go out for bids. And that just -- 8 that just never was done. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Unless I was not at 10 the right meeting or missed that particular part of the 11 meeting, I was under the impression that Mr. Wallace advised 12 the Court that he was going to employ or engage a local 13 agent. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I was under the impression he 15 stated he had engaged that individual, and he was a block 16 down the street, and I believe he identified him on the 17 record. That was my understanding. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's correct. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're on the same 20 page. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: And the guy was in place and 22 available. Before you depart there, Mr. Looney, let me ask 23 you a question. If a third party agrees by contract to 24 perform the employer's COBRA function, does that relieve the 25 employer -- the County in this case -- of its obligation 10-11-05 142 1 under federal law? 2 MR. LOONEY: No. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Same true of HIPAA? 4 MR. LOONEY: You still have the obligation of 5 notification to the individual that's providing the 6 administrative service. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 8 MR. LOONEY: Right? 9 MS. NEMEC: I have a different -- we went to 10 that class, and there is a section that you can put in there 11 that will relieve the employer from that and put it on the 12 person that is administrating that, but I'll have to look 13 that up. 14 MR. LOONEY: If the individual -- if the 15 individual that's doing the administration is not made aware 16 of the termination of the employee, they have no ability to 17 notify the employee. The obligation then reverts back to 18 the organization that failed to provide the notification to 19 begin with. 20 MS. NEMEC: And the organization, if it's 21 contracted correctly and worded correctly, can go after the 22 person that is -- that has been hired to do that if they 23 fail to do so. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That makes sense. How 25 can -- how -- if the administrator's never told whether the 10-11-05 143 1 person is employed or not employed, it's -- we're the only 2 people -- 3 MS. NEMEC: Oh, yeah, we still have to notify 4 them, absolutely. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's what he's saying. 6 MS. NEMEC: We have to notify them of -- of 7 who needs to be -- yes. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 9 MS. NEMEC: Definitely. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No one else to do 11 that. 12 MS. NEMEC: Right. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Except us. 14 MS. NEMEC: Exactly. 15 MR. LOONEY: Again, you've got multiple 16 contracts that you're dealing with. You've got AFLAC 17 contracts, you've got other contracts. 18 MS. NEMEC: We're not talking about those, 19 though. 20 MR. LOONEY: I'm sorry, why are we not 21 talking about those? 22 MS. NEMEC: Because those people service 23 their contracts. The agents that sell those contracts 24 service them. I have nothing to do with those. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They come in and offer 10-11-05 144 1 it to the employees and sit down and talk with the employees 2 themselves. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Those are the voluntary 4 products you're talking about? 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: That doesn't fall under our 7 responsibility, the County's responsibility. 8 MR. LOONEY: Falls under your responsibility 9 for payroll reduction processes. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 11 MR. LOONEY: It's a payroll function. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. But insofar as any 13 administration -- 14 MS. NEMEC: They send me the numbers, and I 15 put them into our payroll and deduct, and that's it. Just 16 like any other deduction. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Work seamlessly? 18 MS. NEMEC: Mm-hmm. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a question of 20 Ms. Nemec. Barbara, is your office aware that the 21 administration of COBRA and HIPPA is provided by Mutual of 22 Omaha? 23 MS. NEMEC: The administration, yes. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Doesn't say that in 25 this memo here. 10-11-05 145 1 MS. NEMEC: I don't know what memo you're 2 looking at. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It says that, 4 pursuant to your request -- this is a memorandum to 5 Commissioner Baldwin -- Treasurer's office has compiled a 6 list of requirements for the Kerr County insurance agent, 7 and there are things listed. And four of those things 8 listed have an asterisk, and the notation says that these 9 things are not currently provided. Two of those asterisks 10 are COBRA -- administration of COBRA and administration of 11 HIPPA. The writer of this memo has indicated to 12 Commissioner Baldwin and the Court that they didn't know 13 that Mutual of Omaha administers these functions. 14 MS. NEMEC: I think probably "administers" is 15 the key word there. She probably got confused with -- 16 because they do administer when there is someone on COBRA 17 and HIPAA, which they get paid for whether there is or there 18 isn't. But we are the ones that send all the notices out, 19 so she was probably thinking that when she wrote that 20 "administers." 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: When we went through this 22 last time, it was agreed that all you were going to do is 23 notify the agent, Mutual of Omaha, that the person did or 24 didn't work, and they were doing it. 25 MS. NEMEC: Doing what? 10-11-05 146 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Administering it. All 2 you did was send one letter -- a form letter that said this 3 person is no longer employed. That's all you have to do. 4 MS. NEMEC: And then send letters to the 5 employees and everything, and that's not a problem. That's 6 not a problem. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But -- well, it is a 8 problem, 'cause this letter goes down further and it says 9 that isn't being done. This memo clearly says -- 10 MS. NEMEC: Again, my -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- Treasurer's office is 12 handling all HIPPA-related cases. Well, no, all you're -- 13 all you should be doing is sending a letter to Mr. Wallace 14 or Mr. -- wherever it goes, Mutual of Omaha, that says this 15 person is no longer working or this person has a HIPPA 16 situation. I don't know what to use. I guess that's -- I 17 don't understand. The letter is making a -- when I read 18 this, it says that Mutual of Omaha and/or the current agent, 19 Mr. Wallace, isn't doing anything. It says that they aren't 20 doing anything related to COBRA and HIPAA. 21 MS. NEMEC: Y'all doing anything related to 22 COBRA and HIPPA? No, because we don't have anybody on COBRA 23 and HIPPA. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What are they -- 25 MS. NEMEC: But yet we still have to send our 10-11-05 147 1 notices out to every employee that's terminated. And that's 2 not the issue here. The issue is we have local agents who 3 want to bid on our insurance, bottom line. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm missing something. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Wallace? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't mind them bidding 7 on it. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't know what it 9 is you're missing, but -- but there must be at least 100 10 employers in Kerr County that provide employee health 11 insurance, and they don't have a local agent. I'm a member 12 of one of those plans, Aetna. That's administered out of 13 Atlanta, Georgia, I think it is. 14 MS. NEMEC: It -- 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't need a local 16 agent; I got an 800 number. 17 MS. NEMEC: It's all whether you would 18 like -- if this Court wants to provide this benefit for the 19 County employees that are asking for it, and to give a 20 chance to other agents who want to bid on our insurance. 21 That's all. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Wallace, do you presently 23 have a local representative assisting you? 24 MR. WALLACE: I have a local agent standing 25 by to assist me anytime. I have called Ms. Nemec. We had 10-11-05 148 1 one meeting set up to visit and sit down and work out 2 details with her on what this local agent would be doing for 3 this county. She called and cancelled the appointment, said 4 she was too busy. When she got time, she'd give us a call. 5 We're still waiting on that call. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: You have a local 7 representative? 8 MR. WALLACE: I have Todd Peters. I gave 9 each one of you a card when I told you that I had a local 10 agent in place. And until -- if it be a good thing, I would 11 like Mr. Baldwin and Ms. Nemec to set an appointment, 12 whenever they would like to meet, and we'll bring Mr. Peters 13 and myself and we'll work this thing out and move forward, 14 rather than sit here and hash all this out and say this and 15 that and the other. But my opinion is, let's move forward 16 from here. You want a local agent. I've got one standing 17 by. But until we tell him what his responsibilities are, he 18 can't do anything. 19 MS. NEMEC: But, Mr. Wallace -- 20 MR. WALLACE: Until we sit down with 21 Ms. Nemec or -- and I would like one Commissioner, 22 Mr. Baldwin or whoever, to be at that meeting so we can all 23 work these things out so the County employees and the 24 Commissioners can get the service that they think they're 25 not getting now. 10-11-05 149 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think that's an 2 excellent idea. 3 MS. NEMEC: Mr. Wallace? 4 MR. WALLACE: That's what I would like to do. 5 MS. NEMEC: I have a question for 6 Mr. Wallace. Did you not also tell me and Commissioner 7 Baldwin that this agent -- that we would not be able to send 8 our employees over to this agent for the enrollment process 9 so that their benefits could be explained? Is that not what 10 you told both of us? 11 MR. WALLACE: That is correct. Now, he can 12 come over here and enroll them. But I don't think, 13 liability-wise, that I want a person that's working for me 14 to have people come over to his office. I would prefer that 15 they come over here and sit down in your facility -- it's 16 your health insurance plan -- and enroll your employee over 17 here. And that's why I said that. 18 MS. NEMEC: So, if they have inquiries, are 19 they going to be able to go to his office? 20 MR. WALLACE: After they get enrolled, they 21 can -- we'll sit down and work that out, okay? If we can 22 just have a meeting, we'll sit down and work all this out. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure. Y'all get 24 together and let me know. 25 MR. WALLACE: Rather than try to hash all 10-11-05 150 1 this out right now, if Mr. Baldwin and Ms. Nemec will -- 2 I'll be gone from the 26th of October through November the 3 2nd. I'd prefer to have the meeting next week so we can get 4 things rolling for you. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Y'all set something 6 up. 7 MS. NEMEC: I have a question for the Court. 8 When other agents call, do I tell them it is the Court's 9 wish not to go out for bids? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We are going out for 11 bids. I can't -- I'm confused. We can't change -- I don't 12 want to change mid-year. I don't want, every time an agent 13 calls -- 14 MS. NEMEC: Okay, that's what I should tell 15 them. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're going out for bids, 17 are we not, Mr. Looney? 18 MR. LOONEY: We're going out for the stop 19 loss. 20 MS. NEMEC: For stop loss, not our agent. 21 And I'm telling this Court -- 22 MR. LOONEY: The agents -- the agents will be 23 able to offer a bid on the stop loss insurance. It will be 24 open to any agent that wishes to bid. 25 MR. WALLACE: And I get a commission on the 10-11-05 151 1 stop loss insurance. That's how I get paid. So if you got 2 a local agent that wants to bid on the stop loss 3 insurance -- 4 MS. NEMEC: I don't -- I have local agents -- 5 not an agent, local agents that have called my office that 6 would like to bid on the County's administration portion of 7 the insurance. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are we going to do 9 formal RFP's like we've done in the past? 10 MR. LOONEY: For the stop loss, yes, sir. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which would include 12 agent services as well? 13 MR. LOONEY: Right. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not administration. 15 You're saying -- your nod was we're not going to bid -- 16 MR. WALLACE: Not Mutual of Omaha. 17 MR. LOONEY: Not Mutual of Omaha, the 18 administration, but stop loss insurance. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand. But 20 that would include agent services -- local agent services? 21 MR. LOONEY: Yes, sir, for that stop loss. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: When are we going to 23 do that? 24 MR. LOONEY: I spoke -- we're going to try to 25 put it out for the -- by the end of next week. 10-11-05 152 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There's your answer, 2 Ms. Nemec. 3 MS. NEMEC: Okay, that's what I need to know. 4 MR. WALLACE: By the way, we do keep a log on 5 every call, every e-mail that comes into our office, and 6 everything that's said and done for this county. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I thought you didn't 8 want to hash this stuff out right now. 9 MR. WALLACE: I'm not. I'm through. I just 10 wanted you to be aware that we have records of everything we 11 say and do. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything further on that 15 agenda item? Why don't we have lunch? Does that -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Talked me into it. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: -- make everybody happy? Why 18 don't we come back about a quarter till 2:00? We'll stand 19 in recess till quarter till 2:00. 20 (Recess taken from 12:25 p.m. to 1:48 p.m.) 21 - - - - - - - - - - 22 (Commissioner Letz was not present.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's come back to order, if 24 we might. We were in recess for the lunch hour. We'll pick 25 up on Item Number 20. Consider, discuss, and take 10-11-05 153 1 appropriate action to engage Pressler Thompson and Company 2 to perform audit for fiscal year ending September 30, 2005. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move we appoint 4 Pressler Thompson and Company to perform the audit for the 5 year ending September 30, 2005, and authorize the County 6 Judge to sign the letter of engagement. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 9 approval of the agenda item and authorize County Judge to 10 sign letter of engagement. Any question or discussion? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Has the County 12 Attorney looked at it? 13 MR. EMERSON: Yes, sir. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: He's nodding yes. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, okay. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: No complaints or -- 17 MR. EMERSON: Just looks like a standard 18 engagement letter, nothing extraordinary. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any further questions 20 or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 21 raising your right hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Next, 10-11-05 154 1 Item Number 21 is consider, discuss, and approval of 2 contract between Office of Court Administration and Kerr 3 County. This has to do with the administrative judge, and 4 it has been signed by everybody except me on behalf of Kerr 5 County. This is actually for a two-year period. The only 6 question I would have is, by it being for a biennium, a 7 two-year period, how -- how does that affect us, Mr. County 8 Attorney? 9 MR. EMERSON: I think you can approve the 10 funds out of the current budgeted -- I forget what the 11 proper wording is, but basically you can approve the 12 expenditure of current funds from the current budget year. 13 Then you have to do it again next year. I don't mean you 14 can preapprove next year's contract based on next year's 15 funds. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That was the reason for my 17 question. That was the reason for my question. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And, probably, the 19 State -- the State goes in two-year terms anyway. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So the money would be 22 there next year, too. This is -- 23 MR. EMERSON: It's -- I'm sorry. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, go ahead. 25 MR. EMERSON: It's really -- I mean, it's 10-11-05 155 1 reimbursement from the State to the County, not from the 2 County to the State. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right. 4 MR. EMERSON: But I assume there is going to 5 be, providing that the County approves the position next 6 year. That's really what it hinges on, the second year of 7 the contract hinges on. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is an 9 administrative assistant to the -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Presiding judge. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The Administrative 12 Judicial Region Judge, which would be the honorable Stephen 13 B. Ables? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And, of course, it's 16 none of my business who that is, but I'm assuming that it's 17 the same person it's always been, and -- well, don't answer 18 that. It really wasn't a question. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I have a 20 question. It talks about -- under statement of services to 21 be performed, that Kerr County agrees to provide an employee 22 or employees for the Sixth Administrative Judicial Region, 23 and then it talks about going to pay us $37,878. I think 24 that's, as noted, a biennium. That's for a two-year period 25 of time. 10-11-05 156 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Either we're getting 3 an employee very cheaply or this is another state unfunded 4 mandate. Which is it? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, it's -- let me 6 -- let me try. The employee is already a County employee. 7 This is just extra duties on that person. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. All right. 9 Well, that explains it. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's correct. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, it's the administrative 14 assistant to the Presiding Judge for the Sixth 15 Administrative Judicial District. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Somebody's 17 already there, compensated to do other things, and this is 18 on top of. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Correct. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It feels a lot like 23 an unfunded mandate. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It has the outward 25 appearance of it. 10-11-05 157 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: When you go through 2 the budget looking for ways to cut costs, you find a lot of 3 those places where we're underwriting the cost of 4 employment. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And we don't have 7 much say. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Exactly. 9 (Commissioner Letz entered the courtroom.) 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is there a motion on 11 the table? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: No. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not yet. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for approval. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 17 approval of the contract. And I assume authorize the Court 18 to sign the same? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Any question or discussion? 21 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 22 hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 10-11-05 158 1 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. The 2 next item is consider, discuss, and take appropriate action 3 to nominate up to five candidates for submission to Kerr 4 Central Appraisal District for board member of Kerr Central 5 Appraisal District. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Who is that person 7 today? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Chuck Lewis. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Who? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Chuck Lewis. I think 11 the -- I was thinking about this on the way in this morning. 12 The practice is that we get one, K.I.S.D. gets two, City of 13 Kerrville gets one, and it's kind of worked out that way as 14 a gentleman's agreement among the board. It's the decision 15 of the Appraisal District, which is to get all of the 16 entities that, you know, I guess fund that entity, get their 17 representation. But I don't know, and I can't recall in the 18 past -- I mean, I think we -- and my recommendation from the 19 Court would be that we keep Chuck Lewis out there. I think 20 he has -- he's only been there several months. I don't 21 think we should make a change at this time. I think he's 22 done a real good job for us on anything we've asked him to 23 do, but I don't know if we just nominate Chuck Lewis. I 24 think we just nominate one person. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: And cast -- and -- 10-11-05 159 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Cast all our votes. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: -- cast all of our votes 3 there. That's the only way we're going to be effective, 4 because -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's right. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: -- otherwise, if we spread it 7 out, I think we're going to end up with zero. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that's the 10 way we've done it in the past. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I make a motion we 12 nominate, or we -- nominate or appoint? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Appoint. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It says here nominate, 15 but I thought we appointed. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, wasn't there 17 somewhere in here that -- I don't know about in here, but 18 I've seen something recently that -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Nominees. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- that you nominate, 21 and then the Appraisal Board themselves still has the 22 authority to -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- accept or reject. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's what I thought 10-11-05 160 1 they said. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know if it 3 says that in here, though. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Here it talks about 5 selecting a director. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I know if there's 7 a vacancy, the board fills it -- the Appraisal Board fills 8 it, but I'm not sure during an annual time when it's done 9 once a year. I thought we appointed. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well the opening here 11 from Mr. Coates said time to nominate and elect Appraisal 12 District Board of Governors. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. I make a motion we 14 nominate Chuck Lewis and cast our 888 votes towards 15 Mr. Lewis. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to 18 nominate -- actually, it's Mr. Charles Lewis. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Charles Lewis, correct. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: As the nominee of Kerr County, 21 and that for balloting purposes, all 888 votes which Kerr 22 County has for the election of the Board of Directors of the 23 Kerr Central Appraisal District be cast for Mr. Lewis. 24 Right? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct. 10-11-05 161 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Any question or discussion? 2 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 3 hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We 8 have two options, gentlemen. We have one executive session 9 item, or we can go to the approval agenda and come back to 10 the executive session item. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We still have Number 12 4, Judge, open. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're going to talk about 14 that one yet. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: That's a budget amendment 16 item. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, it can be 18 treated as a budget amendment. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Unless you want to come back 20 to it and handle it as an agenda item. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, that's fine. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: My understanding was we wanted 23 to take it up as a budget amendment. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's fine. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, what's your pleasure? 10-11-05 162 1 To go into executive, or go straight to the approval and 2 then come back to the executive? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do approval and then come 4 back. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Thought so. Where's our 6 Auditor? Want to bring us your bills? 7 MS. HARRIS: That's okay. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: While we're waiting, 9 did y'all approve using Pressler Thompson again in my 10 absence? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: You didn't think we were going 14 to get to you that quickly? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: She was hoping not at 16 all. 17 MS. WILLIAMS: No. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. On the approval agenda, 19 Item 1, payment of bills. Ms. Pieper, the website interface 20 for the deed records, that -- we're not doubling up with the 21 new Odyssey system on that, are we? 22 MS. PIEPER: Not that I'm aware of. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 24 MS. PIEPER: I think in time, the one place 25 will go down and then the Odyssey will pick up, but I'm not 10-11-05 163 1 for sure how that works. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval of the 3 bills. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to 7 pay the bills. Any questions or discussion? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. I've got a 9 couple of questions, Mrs. Auditor, junior. Page 18, 10 Indigent Health Care. 11 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The last two with 13 VeriClaims. 14 MS. WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the third-party 16 billing? 17 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir, our third-party 18 administrator. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. That we're 20 going to no longer use. 21 MS. WILLIAMS: As soon as we get a system 22 in-house where we can start doing that process, yes. But at 23 the present time, we don't have a system, so -- 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 25 MS. WILLIAMS: -- we're going to have to 10-11-05 164 1 continue using her for a while. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Do you have any 3 idea what that time frame was? 4 MS. WILLIAMS: No. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It was part of the 6 deal of hiring a third member -- 7 MS. WILLIAMS: Right. I need to check with 8 Tommy again. He's supposed to schedule a meeting with the 9 hospital, us, and a gentleman that has the program. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, that's fine. In 11 these bills, I have looked several times, and I can't -- I 12 know they're here, but I can't find them, the bills for the 13 Juvenile Detention Facility. 14 MS. WILLIAMS: They should be in Fund -- oh, 15 okay. No, they're not going to be in this batch. Reason 16 being -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 18 MS. WILLIAMS: -- we didn't have the funds to 19 pay them. We did, but let me clarify that. We didn't have 20 the funds to make the payroll transfer on the 30th of 21 September. That, to me, is a priority, and A.P. comes 22 second. So, we have a list of encumbrance bills for Fund 76 23 that need to be paid. But that, I think, was going to be 24 considered when we talked about transferring funds to cover 25 payroll and our encumbered accounts payable for the 10-11-05 165 1 department. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This Item Number 4? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: These bills would be 5 included into this Item Number 4 that we're going to do? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: My understanding. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: That's what my understanding 8 is. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 10 MS. WILLIAMS: And I prepared a listing for 11 you gentlemen. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: At the time that we 13 vote to pay some, then we'll be able to see what that -- 14 okay, thank you. 15 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's all the 17 questions I have. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Page 2, 19 Nondepartmental. Creative Awards and Trophies. What's that 20 all about? 21 MS. WILLIAMS: It's a youth leadership award 22 that we do every year for the -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I got it, okay. It's 24 4-H. 25 MS. WILLIAMS: Yeah. 10-11-05 166 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions? Page 9, 3 middle of the page, County-Sponsored, $1,300 for an iron 4 fence at Garden of Memories? 5 MS. WILLIAMS: They are purchasing the old 6 fence that was here on the courthouse grounds many, many 7 years ago. It -- I believe what Mr. Schellhase told me was 8 that when the original courthouse burned down, they pulled 9 the fence down. Garden of Memories got the fence. They are 10 now in the process of buying the fence back from Garden of 11 Memories to put out at the Union Church building. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's correct. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 15 MS. WILLIAMS: And this is only a portion of 16 it. They're still working on the rest of the money. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Appeared to me like we 18 were putting up a fence at Garden of Memories, and that's 19 what I was having a problem with. 20 MS. WILLIAMS: Right. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any other questions? 22 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 23 hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 10-11-05 167 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Budget 3 amendments. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, before you go on, 5 I'm sorry, I had a question, if we can go back real quick. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: First item, Other 8 Revenue, Junior District Livestock Show, various months 9 listed. 10 MS. WILLIAMS: What it -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Please tell me that's not 12 the total revenue for those months. 13 MS. WILLIAMS: Oh, no, no, no, no. No, this 14 is just a -- one-third of the indoor arena proceeds. The 15 agreement from many, many, many years ago -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is part of the stock 17 show deal? 18 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 20 MS. WILLIAMS: Whatever we bring in as indoor 21 arena -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They get part. 23 MS. WILLIAMS: They get a third of it. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is money we pay the 25 Stock Show Association? 10-11-05 168 1 MS. WILLIAMS: Hill Country Junior District 2 -- yes, sir. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. The way it said 4 Other Revenue, I was hoping that that wasn't proceeds. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, budget amendments. I 6 don't -- there weren't any in my package. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You got any? 8 MS. WILLIAMS: You have one. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have one? 10 MS. WILLIAMS: Do you want to do yours first? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why don't do I mine 12 first? 13 MS. WILLIAMS: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mindy was good enough 15 to help me prepare some proposed budget amendments to assist 16 in perhaps finding some funds for the Butt-Holdsworth 17 Library. I've identified one, two, three, four, five 18 different categories, and the Court needs to discuss them 19 and see if they're amenable to those. In each of these 20 cases, there are funds that probably could be -- the 21 amendments could be made if we are of a mind to do so. The 22 first one is under Professional Services, all functions, 23 Commissioners Court. That would be reducing the 24 Professional Services line item from $20,000 to $15,000. 25 The second one, Detention Center Maintenance Repairs, it 10-11-05 169 1 would be reducing it from 30 to 25. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that the Juvenile 3 Detention? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I believe so. That's 5 my understanding, yes. Airport, we had overbudgeted by 6 about 9,000. This would change our allocation from 283 to 7 259, making a $16,000 reduction, actually, 'cause we had 8 overbudgeted 9,000. The next one was County-Sponsored 9 Trapper Contract, reducing it back to its prior level of -- 10 by $5,000. And the last one was Parks, Flat Rock Lake, the 11 moneys we were going to -- or will be using for the bridge, 12 reducing that by $10,000. And I'm there for your 13 discussion. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Bill, what is -- you 15 said the Trapper contract issue. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I believe it's -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You reduced it back to 18 the original -- 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Back to what it was. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We -- what we did 21 there -- 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did we increase it? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We increased it 5,000 to 24 try to get Kendall County Trapper to share some of the time 25 with Kerr County. And that's -- that's an unknown, whether 10-11-05 170 1 that money -- if we can work out that agreement with Kendall 2 County. I still -- I would like to leave that in, and in 3 lieu of that 5,000, I would look elsewhere, which would be 4 Water Development. Take that to zero. I think that Water 5 Development's an important issue as well, obviously, but 6 that's a -- I look at that as a -- I don't know, an area 7 that I would rather cut that this year. The Region J plan 8 and all that is -- is being completed; there's not going to 9 be a whole lot going on in that area for the next year. I 10 think that Headwaters and U.G.R.A., they're the primary 11 funders of water development operations and things in the 12 county, and they're both able to lower their taxes, so they 13 must have a little bit more available funds than we do at 14 the moment. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's acceptable to 16 me. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would switch that. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, you would be 19 substituting that one? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Water Development for the 21 Trapper, 5,000. And there's a chance the Trapper may not 22 have either -- we'll find that out in the next six weeks. 23 If not -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm cool with that. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We had a joint 10-11-05 171 1 meeting with the City, and one of the things that came out 2 of that was that the -- I thought that the library 3 administrator or the City was going to come back to us and 4 tell us how they could operate for less. If we make these 5 changes, is it contingent upon getting the report, how 6 they're going to do that? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think our -- as I 8 recall, we were going to come up with what we could, and 9 then they were going to look at what the impact of that cut 10 would be, and then they were going to come back with an, 11 "Okay, this is what that means." 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Which comes first? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, this doesn't 14 get us up to the 416 level. This gets us up to 350. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One other area that I 16 think that we could add another 5,000 to this, not a 17 substitute, would be the Family Service Agent. As I 18 understand it, Ms. Spenrath declined that position, so it is 19 now open. I would still leave it in, but I think if we just 20 basically wait till four months go by before we fill it, 21 that will give us about $5,000, too. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: If it takes as long to fill it 23 this time as it did to fill it, we thought, this last time, 24 we'll make four months easily. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. So, I mean, I 10-11-05 172 1 think that's at least a two-month process if we have a 2 candidate. We don't have any candidates, so I think we can 3 add 5,000 out of that line item, and that's less than -- 4 actually, I think it's, like, three -- a little over three 5 months at $5,000, our portion of that. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: If it's vacant for a 7 couple years, we may decide that we don't need that job. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, 55,000, then, total. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That gets us 55 -- 10 gets us to 55. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think the other 12 thing, I think your approach to the airport is correct, and 13 I concur with the amount right now, but after our next 14 Airport Board meeting, that number may be -- there may be a 15 little extra there that we can put into the library as well. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd move the budget 17 amendments as discussed, and -- and amend it -- you got the 18 amendments, Mindy? 19 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Substituting 5,000 21 from Water Development fund, leaving the Trapper Contract as 22 originally budgeted at 26,6, and taking 5,000 out of 23 whichever line that is for the Extension Agent, the -- 24 MS. WILLIAMS: We're talking Extension Agents 25 out there? It's 10-665-102. 10-11-05 173 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Total -- total 2 reductions of 55,000? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. And that 55,000 4 would be for the library funding. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I moved it. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 8 approval of the budget amendment request as indicated and 9 amended. Any question or discussion? All in favor of the 10 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Any 15 other budget amendments? 16 MS. WILLIAMS: Are we going to discuss the 17 Detention Facility one? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 19 MS. WILLIAMS: Okay. I've prepared a couple 20 of little handouts. There we go. 21 (Discussion off the record.) 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait a minute. We 23 were at 140 this morning, weren't we? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're just on Page 1. 25 MS. WILLIAMS: This one that I'm giving you 10-11-05 174 1 is only for the encumbrances. It does not include the 2 payroll that's coming up this week. You gentlemen said you 3 wanted to keep them separate. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 5 MS. WILLIAMS: Right? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is year-end? 7 MS. WILLIAMS: This is strictly September 8 30th, year-end. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 10 MS. WILLIAMS: I believe if you'll look at -- 11 I believe it's the second page, there's a small recap I did 12 showing how much money was in the bank account on 13 September 30th, showing what the payroll expense for 14 September 30th was, and a list of encumbrances that we have 15 right now on-hand that we need to pay. Comes to 60,156.48, 16 is what we actually are short being able to meet these. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To cover all the checks? 18 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. And that's 19 strictly -- like I said, that's strictly last year's 20 expenses. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you believe that 22 this is sufficient to get us through the budget year? 23 MS. WILLIAMS: No, sir, this is only for what 24 we have right now. We'll still have bills coming in for 25 September, accounts payable. We don't have them all in yet. 10-11-05 175 1 We don't know exactly how much we're going to need for those 2 either. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You have receivables 4 coming in also? 5 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir, we have receivables 6 coming in, so my hope is that the receivables will carry 7 some of the accounts payable that we still have outstanding. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Balance of accounts payable 9 that are not yet in through 9/30? Any ballpark estimate? 10 MS. WILLIAMS: No, sir. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Based upon what the normal 12 A.P.'s are? 13 MS. WILLIAMS: No, there's no way to give an 14 estimate on what we still got out there. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What we have -- I mean, 16 all this -- this clears up last budget year. 17 MS. WILLIAMS: Up to a certain point, yes. 18 It will clear up the payroll through September 30th. It 19 will clear up some of the accounts payable, but we still 20 have bills that we haven't gotten all the paperwork in, so 21 we don't really know how much they are. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On those bills, will they 23 be -- will you -- 24 MS. WILLIAMS: We encumber them. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We encumber them. 10-11-05 176 1 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So it will come out of 3 last year's budget still? 4 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir, because it's not 5 really fair to take them out of the new budget. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sure. 7 MS. WILLIAMS: It was last year's work. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And you, likewise, will 9 accrue all the -- any revenue? 10 MS. WILLIAMS: Right. I believe the Auditor 11 does that. We do not actually encumber the revenues. He 12 handles that on his end. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move approval of the 14 budget amendment as presented. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 17 approval of the budget amendment. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I guess -- 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Any question or discussion? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess there's also -- 21 MS. WILLIAMS: I have one request. Can we 22 also, in the order, give us the authority to go ahead and 23 pay the accounts payables that we have on-hand right now 24 that are on this list? Because they're not included in the 25 fund requirements report that you gentlemen approved 10-11-05 177 1 earlier. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, my motion does 3 include paying the 4,600 -- 640? 4 MS. WILLIAMS: Right. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, actually, it goes 6 to $7,809.63. 7 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I second. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I presume we need to 10 declare an emergency to do this, 'cause those funds are 11 coming out of reserves. 12 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, it needs to come out of 13 surplus. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, the court order is 16 going to read that you're transferring 60,156.48. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: From reserves to Juvenile 18 Detention Facility. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And that -- that 20 covers the encumbrances as well as the payroll? 21 MS. WILLIAMS: It will cover the payroll and 22 the encumbrances we have on-hand at this point in time. We 23 may have to come back at the next court meeting in two weeks 24 and do the same thing. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 10-11-05 178 1 MS. WILLIAMS: By that time, we'll have some 2 of the bills in for September and we'll have a little bit 3 better idea what we're looking at. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the payroll numbers, 5 this will be the last payroll? 6 MS. WILLIAMS: For September. Yes, for 7 September 30th. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Okay. 9 MS. WILLIAMS: Now, there was also a question 10 -- I mean, we're through with that one, right? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We haven't voted. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Haven't voted on it. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We don't have a second, I 14 don't think. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I seconded. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, we got a second. Any 17 further question or discussion on the motion? All in favor 18 of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. 23 MS. WILLIAMS: Okay. Now, this is the one 24 for the payroll coming up this week. It -- the estimate -- 25 and this is strictly an estimate -- may seem a little high, 10-11-05 179 1 but without knowing exactly what the part-time hours are and 2 what those wages are going to be, we are erring a little bit 3 on the side of caution, I think. With the new payroll 4 salaries and stuff that went into effect October 1, it's 5 sort of difficult to get an exact ballpark figure of what 6 payroll's going to actually be for the 14th, but I feel 7 comfortable, if we do the 75,000, that will be more than 8 enough to cover the 14th's payroll and still possibly give 9 us a little bit of a surplus to handle any bills that come 10 in that are due actually out of this new budget. You could 11 be looking at utility bills, phone bills. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This one, we're back to 13 the -- the philosophical discussion as to why we're even 14 doing this? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Exactly. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: As to why we can't treat 17 that department like every other department. 18 MS. WILLIAMS: We can, I think, later, once 19 we decide to combine it into the Treasurer's account. But 20 it's going to take a little bit of time to get that done, 21 and this is one of those things we don't have the time right 22 now. We have to have the moneys or else we're going to be 23 in the same boat we were at September 30th. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rex, too, would this be 25 considered a -- from the Commissioners, something the 10-11-05 180 1 Commissioners Court has to do to change the way we're, I 2 guess, keeping track of the funds? Does that need to be an 3 agenda item to change that, or is that something that -- 4 MR. EMERSON: You mean take it from a 5 separate account, consolidate it as a county subaccount? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. It's just -- we 7 need -- it's obviously not posted that way as a separate 8 agenda item, so do we need a separate agenda item to change 9 that type of a policy, or can we just do it? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I was going to ask 11 the same thing. Is that something the Auditor would come in 12 and recommend to be done, or we just do it? 13 MS. NEMEC: I'd have to close a bank account, 14 and I won't close a bank account without a court order. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Well, that's a 16 good reason. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with her. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a good reason. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, we need to get this 20 on our next agenda to discuss this policy as to how we're 21 going to handle that. 22 MS. WILLIAMS: Actually closing that account 23 and moving it into the Treasurer's account. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 25 MS. WILLIAMS: Might be a good time frame, 10-11-05 181 1 too, because I think we'd be better off if we waited closer 2 to the end of the month so we don't have an overlap. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sure, okay. Then we can 4 get -- fix that issue. But we just -- well, we still need 5 to do this transfer? 6 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. Declare an 7 emergency and transfer it out of the general fund over to 8 376. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't know why it's an 10 emergency. We've budgeted this money. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's my question. 12 Why isn't it just coming out of the '05-'06 budget? 13 MS. WILLIAMS: We don't have any tax revenues 14 for '05-'06 yet. Tax statements haven't even gone out, it's 15 my understanding. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How are we paying 17 anything else? 18 MS. WILLIAMS: With our surplus, basically. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But this -- I don't 20 see -- we've approved a budget that shows a deficit out 21 there, which obviously means we're funding up to that amount 22 at the deficit. And, I mean, I can see maybe that we need 23 to move -- maybe -- I don't think it's a budget amendment. 24 I think we may need to -- a directive of moving cash from 25 this account to the account that Barbara needs it in. I can 10-11-05 182 1 see that. I can see why she would want that, but I just 2 don't think it's a budget amendment. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not in the 4 traditional sense. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Am I hearing from you that in 7 the county general operating account, that we have a cash 8 flow problem there? 9 MS. WILLIAMS: No, sir. What I'm saying is, 10 when you budget -- when you figured the budget for the 11 detention facility, it started October 1st; is that correct? 12 And isn't it based on tax revenues? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Some is based on tax revenues. 14 Some is based on the -- 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Accounts receivable. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: -- accounts receivable, the 17 income. 18 MS. WILLIAMS: We don't have the accounts 19 receivables coming in at the present time. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the only reason -- 21 the only reason this is an issue is because we have a 22 separate bank account for that facility. 23 MS. WILLIAMS: Right. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If we don't have a 25 separate bank account, we don't have a problem. 10-11-05 183 1 MS. WILLIAMS: Correct. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, we have a problem 3 because we're losing money, but we're -- don't have this 4 issue on transferring the funds. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: What -- what are we using to 6 pay the County Clerk's bills? 7 MS. WILLIAMS: General fund. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Does that include the 9 reserve funds? Or -- or is that -- 10 MS. WILLIAMS: Or in the Treasurer's account. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Well, if we've got the 12 money in the general account, how come we can't just 13 transfer that money over to take care of this, since that's 14 included within the budget? 15 MS. WILLIAMS: If that's what the Court 16 wishes to do, then I guess you'd have to instruct the 17 Treasurer to transfer the money. 18 MS. NEMEC: If that's included in the budget, 19 then it should have been set up as a transfer-in, 20 transfer-out, with a certain amount of money there for me to 21 be able to do that, which is what I do with Fund 83. 22 There's county moneys in the general fund. Per budget, 23 there is a transfer-in amount, transfer-out, and that tells 24 me how much money to transfer. But in this case, I don't 25 think that was done. 10-11-05 184 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're saying that -- 2 so -- I think I understand what you said. Let me restate it 3 so I can make sure I understood. Like, in the 216th -- that 4 was an example used this morning -- in our budget, we 5 transfer money -- it shows transferring money in, and then 6 it comes back out in the -- 7 MS. NEMEC: There's a line item. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's a line item for 9 transfer-in, transfer-out in our budget book that does that, 10 but there's no transfer in from the Juvenile Facility into 11 our general fund. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Was that a question? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Was that a question 14 or a statement? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It was a statement to 16 make sure I understand what she's saying. 17 MS. NEMEC: I think the Auditor and I looked 18 at it from an accounting standpoint. When the outside 19 auditors come and audit us, they're going -- when they see 20 that I've transferred "X" amount of dollars from the general 21 fund, they're going to want to see the backup that 22 authorized me to do that amount. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And this would be 24 cured when we finally close that account and meld these 25 things together -- 10-11-05 185 1 MS. NEMEC: Right. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- with the 3 Treasurer; is that correct? 4 MS. NEMEC: Right. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, this may be the 6 last time we have to do this? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, I guess the other 8 side of it is, to be optimistic, if we end up with a -- a 9 positive balance at the juvenile facility, the County 10 couldn't get that money until we transfer it to the general 11 fund. 12 MS. NEMEC: Exactly. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, now you hit the 14 nail right on the head, Commissioner. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it needs to be 16 consolidated, personally. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, it does. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But to get through the 19 next two weeks until we can have an agenda item for 20 consolidation, I move approval of the agenda item -- 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Transfer. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- transfer. Agenda 23 transfer of $75,000. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I second it. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 10-11-05 186 1 approval of the budget amendment. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, I think we need to 3 make clear what we're doing here. We're authorizing the 4 transfer of $75,000 from our general -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Fund. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- fund to the juvenile 7 facility payroll account. Or general -- juvenile facility 8 account. We're talking bank accounts here. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. That make sense, 10 Commissioner? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. But -- 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, it makes sense to me 13 now. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Makes sense. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We have a motion and a 16 second. Any question or discussion? All in favor of that 17 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 18 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carries. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What else, Mindy? 23 MS. WILLIAMS: That's it. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Any late bills? 25 MS. WILLIAMS: No, sir. 10-11-05 187 1 JUDGE TINLEY: I see. 2 MS. WILLIAMS: Thank you. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't have any monthly 4 reports. Any Commissioners have any reports to render at 5 this time with regard to their liaison assignments or 6 otherwise? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: A brief one. I'm not 8 sure -- have we brought the -- has Commissioner Williams or 9 myself brought the Court up to date on the terminal at the 10 airport? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not in a while. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Go ahead. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got three extra 14 hours; go ahead. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It won't take that 16 long. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're -- the bids came in 18 real high, as I think everyone recalled. Commissioner 19 Williams, myself, and the Airport Manager and architect all 20 met with TexDOT. We talked about the process. Part of the 21 reason for the bids being that high was there were some 22 aspects of the bid documents that caused it to come in high. 23 I have a meeting at 4 o'clock today, so we're not going to 24 talk for four hours here, with the -- a subcommittee on the 25 airport to relook at the construction documents and see what 10-11-05 188 1 modifications can be made to lower the cost of that, because 2 Commissioner Williams and I have made it very clear that the 3 amount that came from E.I.C. -- 600,000 was the amount? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Three. Three from 5 E.I.C., three from TexDOT. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's right. So they 7 can't look to the County to increase our ante to that at 8 all, so it's going to have to be within that budget. And if 9 that means a smaller facility, it will be a smaller 10 facility. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what I was 12 going to ask. Does it change the structure? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It may change the size. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, but it will not 16 change the location or the basic purpose. I mean, some of 17 the nice things that -- like the fireplace will probably go 18 by the wayside, you know. It's going to be much more of 19 a -- much more of a functional building. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, there -- Judge, 21 there was a fireplace. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There was a fireplace in 23 it. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think you ought to 25 leave the fireplace in there. 10-11-05 189 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No fireplace, I'm saying. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: There went the bar, 3 too. Going to have to fly sober. (Laughter.) 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It will be a slightly 5 reduced scope, and to make sure that it comes in within 6 budget. And then it will be rebid, I believe, sometime 7 later this year. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Does Fredericksburg 9 have a fireplace? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think so. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't -- no, they 12 do not. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Need to rethink this. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Anyway, it's going to 15 get smaller; it's not going to have a fireplace. Also, 16 we're -- our subcommittee is going to be reviewing the 17 engineers for the -- the engineering work on the -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, the -- 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- the runway. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The taxiway. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Taxiway relocation. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Did I miss that meeting? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I thought we 24 appointed you chair. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I was appointed chair? I 10-11-05 190 1 could have been; I'm not sure. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't know. There 3 is a subcommittee that's meeting on that, reviewing 4 engineers for services for -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm -- yeah, that project 6 is going. And I'm not on that -- that exact meeting is not 7 this week, so it's not on my radar screen yet. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Judge, I've got a 9 report on Animal Control -- are you through? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sure. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Janie was scheduled 12 to be on the departmental reports, but she's on the way to 13 the airport taking her National Guard husband there this 14 afternoon, so I'll go ahead and make a report to cover what 15 she might have said and what I'm going to say. We're moving 16 along on the -- the addition to the Animal Control facility. 17 It's going fairly well, I think. And I'm going to leave 18 these engineering drawings with the court coordinator. I 19 don't think you want copies of them, but if you do, she can 20 make them for you. They're -- the contractors have been 21 selected by the donor. It's a -- the building size will 22 double our capacity. It will double from approximately 19 23 or 20 animals that we currently can handle to 20 -- we can 24 handle 20 more. It will allow us to re-engineer our -- our 25 process, and we're still thinking that through, but we're 10-11-05 191 1 going to use the old facility for intake, and then we'll use 2 the new facility for -- we'll move the animals over there 3 that are healthy and adoptable. 4 And it will allow us, for example, to use 5 volunteers over in that new facility to -- unpaid volunteers 6 to help us manage the adoption process. It will give us 7 flexibility to hold onto good animals, adoptable animals, 8 longer than we've been -- we've always held onto them the 9 minimum amount required by state law, but sometimes we have 10 animals that we'd like to -- can't place with one of the 11 other facilities and would like to hold onto longer. So, 12 this is really -- oh, and I've -- I've met with the 13 contractor that was -- the general contractor is Feller 14 Fabrication, Danny Feller. And we've got an application 15 over there for a building permit, 'cause it's inside the 16 city. I've talked to the Interim City Manager about waiving 17 the $500 building permit fee, and he -- he's checked around 18 and found out that needs -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Council. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- Council approval. 21 So, I've written them a letter at his request, requesting -- 22 formally requesting a waiver. I told the -- the contractor 23 that I'm the go-to guy. If he needs help from the County on 24 something, any questions or whatever, to see me. I'm not 25 going to micromanage that. I'm not going to be out there 10-11-05 192 1 helping pour concrete, but at least he'll have one contact 2 in the county. So, this is a great deal. If we hadn't 3 gotten this, we'd be looking at coming in and asking for 4 some money to expand the facility one of these days. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Only question I have, and 6 you -- the agreement to do all this has gone through Rex, 7 correct? So there's no issue on -- 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We're checking now 9 to make sure that the court order authorized the County 10 Judge to sign it. It's been signed by the donor, and he 11 signed the agreement that Rex prepared, so when we check the 12 minutes and find out that the Judge has got the authority to 13 sign it, that'll be a done deal. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is the donor's name 15 ever going to come out in public? Are we going to put it on 16 the building itself, or -- 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Oh, he doesn't 18 want -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, it's a he, huh? 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. I slipped up 21 there, didn't I? (Laughter.) 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We got that much out, 23 didn't we? 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You know, if 25 somebody wants to dig out his name, it's under the Open 10-11-05 193 1 Meetings Act; it's not hard to do -- Open Records Act. But 2 I'm hoping that doesn't happen, 'cause he doesn't want it to 3 happen. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's great. It's 5 the type of thing, you know, we love to see happen. Maybe 6 this is something that can happen with the library. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hmm? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maybe the same could 9 happen at the library. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or the Ag Barn. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or the Ag Barn. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Or the jail. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or the jail, yeah. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I have one 15 other quickie. Later tonight I'll be presenting two more 16 checks on behalf of O.R.C.A. to the City Council, one for 17 three-quarters of a million dollars, which is Texas Capital 18 funds through the Department of Agriculture, which goes to 19 Mooney Airplane Company for whatever it's doing out there, 20 or applied to be doing. And the other is a quarter of a 21 million dollars -- sure wish I could give you that for Kerr 22 County. That would be nice, wouldn't it? 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I wish you could, 24 too. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's for the sewer 10-11-05 194 1 project for -- Community Development Block Grant for that 2 small sewer project that the City is doing between here and 3 Ingram. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Good. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Good news. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Keep bringing money in 8 from San Antonio, Bill. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You bet. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, we ranked it where it 11 made the cut, and so he brings it in. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You bet you. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me go back to Item 4 on 14 the approval agenda. I've been presented with monthly 15 reports from the District Clerk, Sheriff, Justice of the 16 Peace, Precinct 2, County Attorney, and Justice of the 17 Peace, Precinct 3. Do I hear a motion that those reports be 18 approved as submitted? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 22 approval of the listed reports as submitted. Any question 23 or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 24 raising your right hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10-11-05 195 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Okay. 4 Any other reports? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Who's making 6 presentations today? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me get back to it. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Environmental Health. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Animal Control -- and I think 10 we've just got the update from Animal Control. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can I go back to the 12 other reports, the County Attorney report? Rex, how does it 13 stack up with prior years on your -- I mean, it looks like a 14 huge amount of volume to me. 15 MR. EMERSON: You're talking about the number 16 of cases? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Number of cases filed is 18 1,691 year-to-date, which it's basically end of the year, 19 or -- is that calendar year or fiscal year? 20 MR. EMERSON: Calendar. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Calendar year? I mean, 22 has your -- you may not have enough time in that office to 23 be able to answer as to what that -- 24 MR. EMERSON: I can tell you, historically, 25 from what I can gather, it's running about 5 percent. 10-11-05 196 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 5 percent. So -- 2 MR. EMERSON: Yeah. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 5 percent more? 4 MR. EMERSON: Correct. It's also not in that 5 report, but we just received the numbers, for anybody 6 interested in knowing this. Last year, on mental health 7 billings, the County billed out about $68,000 in 8 prosecutorial attorney's fees, and with the new contract 9 attorney position set up to handle that, assuming it stays 10 the same, we'll bill out 68,000 and it will cost us about 11 12. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: And we're hopeful that the 13 number of cases that we have to handle are going to 14 increase, because the number of beds we have available for 15 acute civil commitments are up 60 percent than what we had 16 previously up until September. And, secondly, that we're 17 going to start, because of legislative changes, to hear 18 medication petitions for the forensic patients. We don't 19 know how much that's going to be. Those will probably 20 trickle in a few at a time as they -- as they come up on 21 that patient load out there. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Are you saying they did 23 up the number of civil beds out there? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, they did. You know, we 25 had 10 on an interim basis. 10-11-05 197 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm just wondering, 2 because it seems in October -- last half of September and so 3 far in October -- of course, you know, the City and our 4 department has an agreement on transporting these ones to 5 San Antonio, and we have made more in the last three weeks 6 than we've probably ever made during any time period like 7 that. So, I don't know if they're already full or whatever 8 they're doing, if they've upped them, but I know our 9 transports back and forth to San Antonio are real close to 10 being a daily, if not twice-a-day event, and that's drawing 11 officers off the streets to make those transports, both from 12 us and the City. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't have any real recent 14 numbers. I know at one point in time -- this, I think, was 15 before September 1; may have been after September 1 -- they 16 were already on diversion. They very well may be on 17 diversion again. Every time -- we're still part of the 18 diversion system. We don't get to hold onto these 16 beds 19 solely for our own cachement area, unfortunately. I wish we 20 could. But when other facilities in the state are full, 21 they divert acute civil commitment patients down here. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, I know there was 23 one night a couple weeks ago we looked at transporting three 24 in one night at different times, and that pretty well takes, 25 you know, a person totally out of the county all night long. 10-11-05 198 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To do that, 'cause you 3 have to go through the admittance part and all that kind of 4 stuff once you get down there. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. That's -- 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: So it's starting to have 7 a serious impact on keeping officers on the street at the 8 levels that we want to keep them on the street at. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, it could be worse. We 10 could have -- 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I agree. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: -- no civil commitment beds 13 out there, which was the initial proposal back in January of 14 this year. And through the efforts of a whole lot of 15 people, we were able to initially get 10 beds, and we worked 16 with those 10 beds. We didn't have but 43 before they went 17 all forensic in January. A lot of folks thought we had all 18 civil commitments. They were mostly forensic even before 19 that, but -- 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, where it affects 21 us, I think, a lot is a lot of the civil commitments we get 22 at night or during the day are from the emergency room or 23 things like that, is -- is under the J.P.'s emergency 24 commitment deal. They stay the 24 hours; they get evaluated 25 by a physician out there, and then they're released. And 10-11-05 199 1 they wouldn't affect their -- their initial count problem 2 any, those bed spaces, but you still have to do something 3 with them for that first 24. So, our -- our amount of the 4 transports and the City's has gone up drastically, you know. 5 I just didn't know what had happened, if something had 6 changed out there, 'cause we just are constantly running 7 back and forth to San Antonio. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, like I say, even though 9 we got the additional beds, we're still part of the 10 diversion system, and if they get filled up, then we have to 11 haul ours. I wish we could reserve them for our use, but 12 that -- 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I wish we could, too. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Part of being able to get any 15 beds at all was we had to be part of it. Now, we are 16 continuing to work on putting together the separate unit out 17 there which would handle, on a stretch, approximately 40 18 patients. But there's a lot more that has to go into that, 19 and we couldn't get it this session, but we're going to try 20 and get it, because there's some discretionary budget funds 21 that -- that are still in the -- in the state system that we 22 might be able to use for that, so we're still working on it. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Appreciate the work. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 55,000, Joe. You 25 missed it. 10-11-05 200 1 MR. BENHAM: Well, you're through with the 2 budget amendments? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 4 MR. BENHAM: Oh. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: What you just heard was 55,000 6 was the number that it got increased. 7 MR. BENHAM: Okay. I did have one request to 8 make that is not a dollar amount, but I think it's 9 important, if that's -- and it would affect the budget if -- 10 if that could be heard. I apologize. I was told you 11 weren't going to get to the amendments until after 2:30. 12 That obviously was bad -- bad advice. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He wants us to come 14 over and mow the yard, is what he wants. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I think I told you after lunch 16 the comment I remember. 17 MR. BENHAM: I didn't mean I heard it from 18 you. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay. 20 MR. BENHAM: I wasn't blaming you, Judge. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's $55,000 in 23 cuts in other budgets in order to step up the library 24 funding by $55,000, and it's contingent upon someone from 25 the City or the library giving -- explaining the plan to us 10-11-05 201 1 about how they're going to meet -- or reduce the budget. 2 MR. BENHAM: Okay. The concern I had was one 3 that Commissioner Letz pointed out after your joint meeting 4 with the City that I feel should be addressed, as it -- 5 perhaps a budget amendment or some sort of action on the 6 part of the -- of the Court, and that is that the -- excuse 7 me -- that the agreement between the City and the County 8 needs to be modified in some way -- and I'm not an attorney, 9 so I can't tell you how to do it -- modified in some way 10 that -- that takes into account the fact that -- the federal 11 requirement that books be capitalized. That should not 12 be -- which should not mean that the library loses 13 50 percent of the revenue that they need to buy books, 14 simply because the contract says that you folks are not 15 required to put capital investment into the library. And -- 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Mr. Benham? 17 MR. BENHAM: I'm sorry. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think we altered 19 the contract wording to -- 20 MR. BENHAM: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- give us the 22 flexibility to not look at books as capital. 23 MR. BENHAM: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We put an adjective 25 in there before "capital," and I can't remember right now 10-11-05 202 1 what it was, but -- 2 MR. BENHAM: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If -- 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- anyhow, the 5 contract's okay. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But -- and if it's not, 7 I'd look at the Library Advisory Board. Library Board is 8 the one to make recommendations to that contract. 9 MR. BENHAM: I see. Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I went back and 11 looked at the contract, and we've got the flexibility to -- 12 MR. BENHAM: I am grateful. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- interpret it that 14 way, and we intended to. 15 MR. BENHAM: I appreciate that. If you'll 16 allow me, I want to commend you gentlemen for all of the 17 work that you have put in on this library issue. I know 18 it's perhaps not as important to some people as it is to me, 19 but you found out it's important to a lot of your 20 constituents, too. I think the spirit that I've seen 21 develop in the last few months of interest in the library, 22 interest in cooperation between the City and the County, is 23 a very healthy thing, not just for the library, but for 24 everybody in Kerr County, and I want to commend you 25 gentlemen for what you have done to bring that about. I'm 10-11-05 203 1 going to tell the City Council the same thing this evening, 2 by the way, 'cause I think they deserve some credit. But 3 you folks have come a long way in a few months on -- on a 4 meeting of the minds, a -- a constructive spirit, and 5 hopefully a diminution of the hostility that has existed 6 between the City and the County lately. And, again, I think 7 you're to be commended for that, and I hope the public 8 understands how much you people and the City have 9 accomplished in that regard. And I appreciate your letting 10 me share those thoughts with you, 'cause I think they're 11 very important, not just for the library, but for everything 12 you folks do, and I thank you for it. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Appreciate those kind words. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Judge? There's one 15 other comment I'd like to make. It's something I think that 16 -- 'cause we all do care about the employees. It's just 17 something I think that I would like for y'all to keep in our 18 prayers. We have one of our deputies, this weekend, just 19 out of the clear blue, wasn't feeling good. Went to the 20 hospital Saturday morning -- he's young. He's in ten times 21 better shape than I'll ever be in, and he is in extremely 22 critical condition right now with double pneumonia, but they 23 don't know what the cause is. In fact, he's not even 24 breathing on his own right now. And it's just something I'd 25 like, since we're all their employers, to keep him in our 10-11-05 204 1 prayers that he gets better, 'cause he's also the sole 2 caregiver for his elderly mother, who's crippled, and trying 3 take care of her. 4 MR. EMERSON: No names, guys. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And I didn't say names. 6 I wouldn't give any. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He didn't even give us 8 his age. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Just an information 10 deal. 11 MR. BENHAM: I'll be happy to get him on the 12 prayer list at our church. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Appreciate it. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Other than the 15 executive session item, do we have anything further on the 16 information agenda? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Reports. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. We've just gone 19 through -- 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Environmental Health 21 is supposed to report. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Excuse me, yeah. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Environmental Health and 24 Juvenile -- 25 JUDGE TINLEY: A thousand pardons. I wasn't 10-11-05 205 1 looking at the timed item. The Extension Office; of course, 2 we got the report on that. We got no new hire. 3 Mr. Arreola? Thank you, sir. 4 MR. ARREOLA: Thank you. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: My apologies to you. 6 MR. ARREOLA: Not a problem. I'll make it 7 short and sweet. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: If I would have completely 9 missed you, you would have been happy to just go on out the 10 door, probably. 11 MR. ARREOLA: I was ready to do that. This 12 is the end of the year -- fiscal year report. Okay, and 13 it -- just basically, the first graph, it shows how we did 14 compared to the year before, which is fiscal year 2004, and 15 how we're projecting fiscal year 2006 will be. We're a 16 little lower on revenues in 2004, and that also prompts 17 everything else to be a little lower. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What's the 19 definition of permits, authorizations, and applications? 20 MR. ARREOLA: Okay. Permits is the final 21 document that the homeowner receives. That's the end of -- 22 end product. Authorizations is the permit that we issue, 23 that written permission for them to construct an O.S.S.F. 24 The applications is the actual application that a homeowner 25 brings in. 10-11-05 206 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I probably knew at 2 one time. It appears that 250 applications for systems, but 3 only 160 or so permits. What -- what's the disposition of 4 the difference? 5 MR. ARREOLA: That is because a lot of the 6 applications received this year, they're not processed 7 thoroughly; they're not completely done. They do have up to 8 one year to finish the process, so it's not reflected on 9 that. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And at the end of -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm sorry. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Go ahead. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: In terms of chronology, then, 14 probably applications is the first step, authorization is 15 the second step, and permit is the -- 16 MR. ARREOLA: Correct. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: -- the ultimate -- 18 MR. ARREOLA: Is the ultimate -- yeah, is the 19 latest. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, thank you. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And at the end of that 22 year, if it's not resubmitted or -- 23 MR. ARREOLA: Finalized. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- finalized, then -- 25 and then they want to go on anyway, they have to go through 10-11-05 207 1 the fee process and application process, everything? 2 MR. ARREOLA: Start all over again. A few 3 times we have extended the application period when they need 4 to, but normally it's -- if it's not done within a year, 5 they have to reapply. Second page is a report on Solid 6 Waste. That is what happened from January 1st through the 7 last day of September. We did receive a pretty good amount 8 of cases. 68 percent are closed, done. 8 percent of those, 9 we have to get the assistance of the court or use citations. 10 And we have 24 percent pending, still working on. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Miguel, have you 12 ever had occasion for -- ever gotten a request to waive 13 fees? 14 MR. ARREOLA: On O.S.S.F., yes, sir. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What kind of 16 rationale does someone give you to -- 17 MR. ARREOLA: It's only from Commissioners 18 Court. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What? 20 MR. ARREOLA: To waive fees on O.S.S.F. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We've done it. We 22 did it on the Kerrville South wastewater project. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That was a 24 hypothetical question. Thank you. 25 MR. ARREOLA: You're welcome. 10-11-05 208 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Miguel, in the solid 2 waste side, do you have any idea, breaking them down, like, 3 how many of them are just junk cars or trash where rats and 4 mice breed, those kind of things? And, really, where I'm 5 going with this, are we still seeing illegal landfills on 6 people's property? Are we still seeing some of those? 7 MR. ARREOLA: We're still seeing that. Not a 8 big percentage. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a big 10 percentage? 11 MR. ARREOLA: Not a big percentage. Probably 12 10, 15 percent of the cases are that type of situations. 13 Most of them are back yard trash. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But we're still 15 seeing -- 16 MR. ARREOLA: Yeah, we're still seeing it, 17 yes. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Landfills, wow. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I thought it was 20 interesting, over the weekend, visiting with someone who's 21 familiar with Gillespie County government, they asked me a 22 question; they said, well -- we were talking about O.S.S.F., 23 and they said, "Well, how many waivers do y'all issue on 24 O.S.S.F.?" I said we don't issue waivers. I said we 25 just -- pretty much, it's not part of policy. They were 10-11-05 209 1 astounded, but thought it was a good policy. Pretty much 2 the rule's the rule. So, we went down the road of issuing 3 waivers a while back, and we decided we're not going to 4 repeat that, so I think it works. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Miguel, without 6 getting into names of your -- your people, to what extent is 7 your solid waste -- are your solid waste investigations 8 impaired at the moment by reason of illness or other 9 factors? 10 MR. ARREOLA: I've been taking care of most 11 of them. It's kind of early in the year to tell how it's 12 going to go, but we have been receiving about the same 13 amount of complaints to be investigated. We're looking into 14 it with what we have. There's been a little bit of illness 15 in the department, but it's okay this week. So -- 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? Thank you, 19 sir. 20 MR. ARREOLA: Thank you. 21 (Discussion off the record.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Juvenile Detention. 23 MS. HARRIS: Good afternoon. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Good afternoon. 25 MS. HARRIS: For September, our average 10-11-05 210 1 population was 35, so that's a substantial increase from 2 what the average population was in August. Of the 35, 24 3 was postadjudication. Of those, there were four Kerr County 4 residents in September. Preadjudication, 11 -- an average 5 of 11. Expenditures was 160 -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait just a second, 7 Becky. Let's -- postadjudication, you had 24, and four of 8 those were Kerr County? 9 MS. HARRIS: Yes. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And preadjudication, 11 you had 11? 12 MS. HARRIS: Yes. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And zero Kerr County? 14 MS. HARRIS: No, the majority of those 11 are 15 Kerr County. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. Okay. 17 MS. HARRIS: Yes. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Majority, like eight 19 or nine or something like that? 20 MS. HARRIS: Yes, I would say so. On an 21 average, yes. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 23 MS. HARRIS: Mm-hmm. Expenditures was 24 $169,189.68, which was an increase of 19,788 from August. 25 Now, our revenue was $100,762.62, which is an increase of 10-11-05 211 1 $27,647.47 from August. Now, you can add the very first 2 small little paragraph at the bottom of the page of the 3 report that you have, the 26 juveniles from Nueces County as 4 a result of Hurricane Rita. We charged those residents for 5 two days while they were here, and that is not reflected in 6 the revenue, and that was $4,316 additional that you can add 7 to that $100,000. We had 53 intakes in September; two from 8 Wilson County, one from Bexar, one from Medina, 26 from 9 Nueces, and 23 from T.Y.C. Because the T.Y.C. intakes 10 occurred on the last day of September, so they were part of 11 that, of the statistics. We had six discharges; three from 12 Bexar County, one from El Paso, one from Jim Wells, and one 13 from Guadalupe. And then pending intakes are four; one from 14 Ward, one from Hood, and two from Guadalupe. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Becky? 16 MS. HARRIS: Yes? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Did you not tell us 18 that T.Y.C. was contracting with Kerr County for 24 19 residents? 20 MS. HARRIS: Up to 24, yes, sir. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Up to? 22 MS. HARRIS: Yes, sir. 'Cause that would 23 be -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a solid 24? 25 MS. HARRIS: Right. That would be the 10-11-05 212 1 capacity of the annex building. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. I thought it 3 was a solid number. 4 MS. HARRIS: No, sir. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not a solid number? 6 MS. HARRIS: No, sir, there's 23 in there, 7 and from the indications that we're getting -- T.Y.C. 8 representatives came twice last week, and they were here 9 yesterday, and the indication is that the 23 that we have 10 are going to be there for a good three months, if not 11 longer. 'Cause those kids -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the facility 13 in Beaumont? 14 MS. HARRIS: For two reasons -- yes, for two 15 reasons. The facility in Beaumont, the roof caved in. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 17 MS. HARRIS: When they first approached us to 18 contract, that was not the case. And then, like, the next 19 day or two days after they had visited with us, the roof had 20 caved in, and sun was shining in that building and the 21 bottom floor had water standing in it. They say that there 22 is mold growing on everything. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll bet. 24 MS. HARRIS: And so it's going to take quite 25 a bit of renovation for them to get that building ready. 10-11-05 213 1 But the other reason is that the kids that they sent us, 2 T.Y.C. has their juveniles on a phase system similar to our 3 level system, but it's a little bit more intricate and a 4 little bit more complicated. There's different categories 5 that they have to get different phase numbers in, and I 6 won't go into a lot of detail. Whenever they had to 7 evacuate the Beaumont unit and some other units along the 8 coast, T.Y.C. central office in Austin had made a directive 9 that kids that were Phase 3 across the board in all their 10 categories could possibly be released early if they had 11 served their minimum sentence. Normally, the kids have to 12 be Phase 4 across the board as how they get out, plus serve 13 their minimum sentence. The indication was that these kids 14 -- and what the kids were told at Beaumont, that they were 15 going to get out if they had 3's all the way across the 16 board. T.Y.C. people told them Thursday, no, y'all didn't 17 fall in that category; y'all have to have 4's straight 18 across the board. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which means to us? 20 MS. HARRIS: Which means to us we get to keep 21 them longer, because it's not an easy thing for those kids 22 to get their phases. It's pretty complicated. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Bet that makes for 24 some happy residents. 25 MS. HARRIS: Oh, yes, it was lovely Friday 10-11-05 214 1 after they left on Thursday afternoon. It was lovely. They 2 were not happy. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll bet. 4 MS. HARRIS: No. Anyway -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the enrollment out 6 there right now? 7 MS. HARRIS: T.Y.C.? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, total. 9 MS. HARRIS: Total? 55 today. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 55 today? 11 MS. HARRIS: 55 today, yes, sir, 33 in the 12 old building and 23 in the annex. Also, if you'll see in 13 the second paragraph, we've billed T.Y.C. for the one day in 14 September, and that's an additional $2,185 that is also not 15 reflected in that $100,000 figure that I gave you. We had 16 sent them a bill for $83 a day, and we caught it. Went, 17 "Oh, no. No, it's supposed to be $95." So, we sent them a 18 new bill. We're trying our level best to hire temporary 19 people for the annex building. We -- we -- we had a good 20 roll going last week. We interviewed -- I bet we 21 interviewed over 20 people, and out of the 20 people that we 22 interviewed, by the time we weeded out those that didn't 23 pass the drug test and didn't pass the criminal background 24 check, then that narrowed the number down. And then we got 25 those people started, and we had one temporary person that 10-11-05 215 1 was going to fill a full-time vacancy. He was 2 three-quarters of the way through with his training, and 3 over the weekend he was working, doing some more OJT, and he 4 took a break and never came back in the building. I -- 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You sure Rusty didn't 6 get him? 7 MS. HARRIS: So, this is the dilemma that 8 we're facing, is getting people in there that are qualified 9 and that pass all of our screening, to get them in there. 10 And my full-time people, I mean, they're -- they're pulling 11 their weight and then some. They're working their heads 12 off. But some of our full-time people there, they're 13 getting tired, 'cause some of them have worked seven days 14 straight here lately. We've got three people -- we've had 15 illness strike us too, and home injuries. I've got three 16 people that hurt themselves -- full-time people that hurt 17 themselves at home, that are out, so the full-time people 18 are having to fill in those gaps. And the most reliable 19 full-time people that will come in at the drop of a hat, of 20 course, are the shift supervisors and maybe one or two of 21 the other full-time people. I've been hiring and 22 terminating people for many, many years, and I can honestly 23 say I don't think I have ever run across the difficulty that 24 -- that we're having in hiring people and keeping them. 25 It's like a revolving door, and just about the time you 10-11-05 216 1 think you have somebody trained and that they're going to 2 make a good staff, they never show up for work again. So, 3 anyway, we're working really hard trying to get enough staff 4 so we can relieve our full-time people. 5 The amendments -- the contract addendum that 6 we sent out, we're starting to get those back. We've got, 7 like, four or five sex offender kids right now that would 8 qualify for that $115 a day. We're waiting to get those 9 amendments so we can start charging those counties for that, 10 and they're starting to trickle in. And I believe, Judge 11 Tinley, you've got El Paso's contracts on your desk, and 12 those are the contracts that have already -- 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Kathy's got those. I've 14 approved all the contracts -- 15 MS. HARRIS: Okay. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: -- that were here last week. 17 MS. HARRIS: Okay. I just got an e-mail this 18 morning from them, just wanting to know where their copy 19 was, 'cause I think they've got some kids in the pipeline 20 for us. So -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: They're approved. 22 MS. HARRIS: Okay, I'll pick them up. That's 23 pretty much it. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: You had mentioned that -- in 25 your reports that there was really not much in the way of 10-11-05 217 1 comment about the -- the increased -- 2 MS. HARRIS: Mm-hmm. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: -- level for the specialized 4 treatment. 5 MS. HARRIS: Right. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: What about the transporting 7 costs? Are you getting any comment on that? 8 MS. HARRIS: I'm not getting any comments on 9 that -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 11 MS. HARRIS: -- one way or the other. 12 Nobody -- a county has not said anything. And the counties 13 have -- have not said anything about the increased per diem. 14 The only thing -- like I indicated in the report we just 15 did, we have one county who was concerned about our clothing 16 policy that we changed in order to cut costs. So we didn't 17 have to buy so many uniforms, the postadjudication coming in 18 with their own clothes was approved by us. We only had one 19 county that didn't particularly care for it, but I explained 20 to the chief -- 'cause we already have the resident. I 21 explained to the chief that if -- if that child -- if the 22 county can't pay for the clothing and the parents can't pay 23 for the clothing, we get donations -- we get clothing 24 donations, and a lot of times it comes from the staff. The 25 staff donate clothes, and we make sure those kids who can't 10-11-05 218 1 afford it, whose parents can't afford it or the county will 2 not buy it for them, that they receive the donated clothing 3 items. So -- but that was not going to be a problem. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions? Thank 6 you, ma'am. 7 MS. HARRIS: You're welcome. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: We are where I thought I was a 9 while ago, apparently. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Executive session. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: At this time, we will go out 12 of closed or public session at 3:07. 13 (The open session was closed at 3:07 p.m., and an executive session was held, the 14 transcript of which is contained in a separate document.) 15 - - - - - - - - - - 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We will come back into 17 open session at 3:20. Gentlemen, it appears that we've 18 handled all the items on the agenda. Is there anybody that 19 has anything further? Hearing nothing, we will stand 20 adjourned. 21 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 3:21 p.m.) 22 - - - - - - - - - - 23 24 25 10-11-05 219 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 5 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 6 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 7 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 20th day of October, 8 2005. 9 10 11 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 12 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 13 Certified Shorthand Reporter 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 10-11-05