1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Regular Session 10 Monday, February 13, 2006 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge 23 H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 24 DAVE NICHOLSON, Commissioner Pct. 4 25 ABSENT: JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 2 1 I N D E X February 13, 2006 2 PAGE --- Commissioners' Comments 6 3 1.1 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 4 rental fee of Exhibit Center for Boy Scout Law Enforcement Day 8 5 1.2 Consider/discuss and take appropriate action to acquire software/equipment to program & print 6 ballots from Hart InterCivic 10 1.3 Request to film on courthouse grounds -- 7 1.4 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action approving the AIS 150 ballot scanners surplus 15 8 1.6 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve trading in 3 eSlate machines for a 9 Disabled Access Unit & a Judge's Booth Controller 17 1.5 Approve annual accounts and status of 10 investments pursuant to Texas Probate Code 27 1.7 Discuss/consider, take appropriate action to 11 accept grant of real property donated by Nowlin and Becky McBryde to Kerr County 28 12 1.10 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on banning all portable heaters from county buildings 29 13 1.11 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to set public hearing for Revision of Plat, Lots 3, 4, 14 and 5 of Japonica Hills, Pct. 4 38 1.12 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action for 15 Concept Plan for Commercial Commerce Park west of Center Point, Pct. 2 39 16 1.8 Consider & take action on the resignation of F.C. Henson from Board of Commissioners of Kerr 17 County Emergency Service District #2 53 1.13 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 18 allow Road & Bridge to advertise for annual bids 54 1.15 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action for 19 Final Revision of Plat for Block 8, Lots 5-9, Greenwood Forest No. 6, Ingram ETJ, Pct. 4 56 20 1.16 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to set public hearing for Revision of Plat, Lots 79 21 and 80, Cypress Park, Section Two, Pct. 3 57 1.17 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action for 22 Preliminary Plat of Cypress Springs Estates, Phase 2, Section Two, Pct. 4 57 23 1.9 Consider & take action on nominations for Board of Commissioners of Kerr County Emergency Service 24 District #1 63 1.18 Consider, discuss and take appropriate action 25 to allow South Texas Blood & Tissue Center to provide a blood drive for Brenda Geurin 64 3 1 I N D E X (Continued) February 13, 2006 2 PAGE 1.19 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 3 correct public hearing date on Court Order 29531 from March 6 to March 13, 2006 68 4 1.20 Approve resolution for application for Victims of Crime Act (VOCA) grant for 2006-2007 grant year 5 to fund Crime Victims' Rights Coordinator program 69 1.21 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 6 request to use Flat Rock Lake Park on Easter weekend (Apr. 15-16) for annual Easter Fest 70 7 1.27 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to accept sub-award under Homeland Security Grant 8 program, authorize County Judge to sign acceptance and other documents 75 9 1.28 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to accept Indigent Defense Grant award, authorize 10 County Judge to sign same 76 1.29 Consider/discuss, approve submittal of AACOG 11 grant application for equipment for Environmental Health Department 78 12 1.30 Consideration/possible action to authorize County to finance acquisition of computer hardware/software 13 from The Software Group, approve and authorize the execution of all documents related to financing 81 14 1.31 Report from Animal Control Department 88 1.14 Presentation of County Safety Award from Texas 15 Association of Counties for 2004 91 1.31* Report from Juvenile Detention Facility 96 16 4.1 Pay Bills 109 17 4.2 Budget Amendments 112 4.3 Late Bills --- 18 4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 130 19 5.1 Reports from Commissioners/Liaison Committee Assignments 130 20 1.22 Consider/discuss Kerr County's authority under 21 Texas Constitution and various laws to regulate and/or place restrictions on mining, rock-crushing 22 and related operations 134 1.23 Consider/discuss relevance of Kerr County Flood 23 Damage Prevention Order as it may apply to mining, rock-crushing and related operations 134 24 1.24 Consider and discuss S.B. 1354 and its relevance to current/planned mining operations in Kerr County; 25 authorize official meeting to discuss possible introduction of legislation to protect river 135 4 1 I N D E X (Continued) February 13, 2006 2 PAGE 1.25 Consider/discuss matters contained in "Community 3 Covenant" between Burnet County and Capital Aggregate of Austin, Texas; discuss methods by 4 which similar agreement might be negotiated between Kerr County and Wheatcraft, Inc. 135 5 1.26 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action regard- ing report from Environmental Health Director, 6 Miguel Arreola, identifying unpermitted septic system installation on Jerry Wheatcraft property 135 7 1.6* Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve trading in 3 eSlate machines for a 8 Disabled Access Unit & a Judge's Booth Controller 177 9 --- Adjourned 183 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 5 1 On Monday, February 13, 2006, at 9:00 a.m., a regular 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in the 3 Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville, 4 Texas, and the following proceedings were had in open court: 5 P R O C E E D I N G S 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. 7 Let me call to order this regularly scheduled meeting of the 8 Kerr County Commissioners Court scheduled for this date and 9 time, Monday, February the 13th, 2006, at 9 a.m. It's that 10 time now. Commissioner Williams? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Will you please rise and 12 join me for a word of prayer followed by the pledge of 13 allegiance? 14 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. At this time, if there's 16 any member of the audience or the public that wishes to be 17 heard on any matter that is not a listed agenda item, you're 18 free to come forward. We'd ask that you tell us what's on 19 your mind. If you want to speak on an agenda item, it's 20 helpful to me if you fill out a participation form. They're 21 located at the back of the room. It's not essential, but it 22 helps me to be sure not to -- hopefully, not miss you when we 23 get to that item, so that's why I ask that you do that. But 24 if there's any member of the public that wishes to be heard on 25 any item that is not listed on the agenda, please feel free to 2-13-06 6 1 come forward and tell us what's on your mind at this time. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Seeing no one coming forward, we'll 4 get on with the business. Commissioner Williams, what do you 5 have for us this morning? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, Judge, my mother used 7 to tell me a long time ago, it's a good day if you learn 8 something; it's a bad day if you go without learning 9 something. Saturday night, at the -- at the Center Point 10 school cafeteria, Alliance Club over there had its annual 11 pancake supper, and I knew that my colleague to the right was 12 a tub-thumper; he can do that tub-thumping thing and he stomps 13 his foot and he can keep time and he can help make music, and 14 he did that. He did a good job. What I didn't know, however, 15 was that that quiet lady who sits in front of this dais who -- 16 with her hands on that keyboard is a very good singer, and she 17 does so karaoke-style with three other of her friends, and 18 entertained us royally -- or I should say the crowd; there was 19 a very large crowd of local folks. We had a good time eating 20 pancakes and listening to music, so that was a good day. I 21 learned something. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Maybe she can join my 23 tub-thumping band -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Maybe she can. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- and sing. 2-13-06 7 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Anyhow, a good time was had 2 by all, Judge. Ready to do business here. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Anything else? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, sir. Commissioner 4? 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'll pass. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner 1? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir, I have a couple 8 items. I wanted to remind you guys, I saw in the paper a few 9 days ago, in regards to the 150th birthday -- the parade, I 10 think that Mrs. Steele was quoted in there as saying that the 11 entry for the parade is the 15th. That would be day after 12 tomorrow. That's what I read, anyway. So, I have a feeling 13 maybe they'll cut us some slack, but we'll see. But, anyway, 14 we need to start thinking in those terms. I wanted to talk 15 about NIMS training, and I won't talk much about it, because I 16 don't know what it is. I know it has something to do with 17 Homeland Security, and the State is requiring us to take this 18 four or five hours of training and be certified, and I just 19 wanted to let you guys know that your -- your association is 20 offering that free in Wichita Falls when we are there on 21 Tuesday, the 21st. So, if you're -- if you're there -- if you 22 get up there on Tuesday, that class is available in the 23 afternoon, and -- and get that done and get it out of the way 24 and comply with the State. That's all. Thank you. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I did have one other 2-13-06 8 1 item. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, sir? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I received a copy, as you 4 did, of the letter from Texas Water Development Board, which 5 the staff has -- has scored the application -- Kerr County's 6 application high enough to be recommended for funding for the 7 preliminary planning and engineering. They're having their 8 public hearing tomorrow in Austin. If I can rearrange my 9 schedule, I intend to be there to hopefully speak for it, and 10 we hope that it will get the stamp of approval. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: As I understand it, Commissioner, 12 our -- our scoring system was such that it appears there's 13 very good possibility we're going to get some -- some funding 14 for -- for going forward with that -- with that engineering 15 study; is that correct? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. And, as you 17 recall, if they fund that with $60,880, the Upper Guadalupe 18 River Authority will put up the match, so that'll give us the 19 requisite number of dollars to get the engineering underway -- 20 preliminary engineering. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: And the Center Point project will be 22 launched at that point? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, thank you. Let's get on with 25 the agenda, if we might. We've got a lengthy one today. And 2-13-06 9 1 first item on the agenda is Boy Scout Law Enforcement Day; 2 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on rental fee 3 of the Youth Exhibit Center. Dr. Smith? 4 DR. SMITH: Yes, sir. Good morning. I just want to 5 bring to your attention on the item, you have some information 6 on the Law Enforcement Camporee. We've been in discussion 7 with Sheriff Hierholzer, and we are privileged to be able to 8 introduce to you an opportunity for young people, especially 9 the young boys and the Boy Scouting in our district and in 10 this community, in this county, to be able to have a Law 11 Enforcement Camparee where we can bring the people together 12 who are involved in law enforcement in the Sheriff's 13 Department, and they will be able to give us different kinds 14 of law enforcement activities, venues to allow these young 15 people to see what really goes on, in some cases behind the 16 scenes, by seeing how they coordinate and so forth. It's an 17 investment in the future of the youth, and it is also a 18 positive reinforcement of the Sheriff's Department. We would 19 like to ask that we have permission to use the Exhibit Center, 20 and waive the fee for that, please, sir. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I move to approve that. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 24 of the use of the Exhibit Center, and that the fee for the use 25 be waived. Looks like that's Saturday, October the 14th, 2-13-06 10 1 2006? 2 DR. SMITH: Yes, sir, that's correct. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: No conflict on that date, is there? 4 MS. DAVIDSON: None whatsoever. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion and second. Any discussion on 6 the motion? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Super idea. Like it. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I do as well. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All in favor of the motion, signify 10 by raising your right hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Thank you for 15 being here today, sir. 16 DR. SMITH: Thank you. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: The next item on the agenda is to 18 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to acquire the 19 software and equipment necessary to program and print ballots 20 from Hart InterCivic. 21 MS. PIEPER: Gentleman, Charles Scott, our Hart rep, 22 is not here today. He called the other day and said that they 23 do not have a loan source. The sources that they deal with 24 deal in large amounts of money, and -- and so, to their 25 sources, this is a wimpy amount. And he suggests that if we 2-13-06 11 1 choose to do this, that we seek out a source from our local 2 entities -- or local banks. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Does any money remain from 4 the state grant that we were given to purchase this equipment? 5 MS. PIEPER: There might be about $1,800 is all. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I bet there was a time that 7 Hart -- the Hart Company relied on people -- little deals like 8 us. What do you suggest? What is your suggestion that we do? 9 MS. PIEPER: If y'all choose to do this, then I 10 guess we can go to our local bank and see if they will do the 11 funding on it. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: The issue, as I see it, it looks like 13 we've got better than 50,000 going in. I'm concerned about 14 the ongoing annual licensing costs, annual maintenance costs, 15 and getting all these numbers. I'm not sure that we can make 16 an informed decision till we have all of these numbers and 17 figure out how we're going to amortize it and -- and make this 18 thing work. It's a considerable sum of money to try and 19 recoup, even if we're -- we're charging a -- a small portion 20 of that to each entity that may initially begin leasing this 21 equipment or renting this equipment from us for their 22 elections. I think we need to be looking at some sort of a -- 23 a commitment from them that it will be an ongoing thing. If 24 we're going to put out this kind of money, we need to know 25 that we've got it covered by our use and the use of other 2-13-06 12 1 entities before we jump off and spend that kind of money. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Jannett, I'm still confused 3 as to why this is necessary now, this close to the election. 4 MS. PIEPER: It is not necessary now, sir. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why is it on the agenda now? 6 MS. PIEPER: Well, it's been an ongoing issue, 7 different entities that do want to have the option of being 8 able to program and print our own ballots. I would like to be 9 able to print my own ballots, but it's not necessary that I am 10 able to do it right now. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Would this -- would this be 12 better left for budget time? 13 MS. PIEPER: That is very possible, yes. And that 14 then, that way, we can have time to get more figures together 15 to see if it's even feasible for us to go this way. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would prefer that, 17 frankly. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. I'm wondering why we 19 would be thinking about borrowing some money. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't want to think about 21 that. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We don't need to be 23 borrowing money. There's other thing I'm wondering about, and 24 that is, I've got an uneasy feeling about the election coming 25 up. Can you -- can you give me some assurances that things 2-13-06 13 1 aren't going to go badly wrong because of our new methods? 2 MS. PIEPER: Well, Thursday and Friday, I was up 3 here till 10 p.m. helping to train all the Election Day 4 workers, so I'm hoping that we've got them trained. It's a 5 very easy system for the general public. You're still going 6 to come in; you're going to mark your square and you're going 7 to put your ballot in the scanner. As with any new system, 8 there's always room for errors. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What's the worst thing that 10 could happen? 11 MS. PIEPER: One of the machines go down and I don't 12 have a backup. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And hand-count? 14 MS. PIEPER: Yes. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So we're going to be okay 16 even if the machines don't work? 17 MS. PIEPER: If a scanner goes down, we do have the 18 DAU that we would still be able to use without having to 19 hand-count. However, the line is going to get long. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're only placing one of 22 these units in every polling place; is that correct? 23 MS. PIEPER: That is correct. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, even if it goes down, I 25 can't see that it's going to cause a major problem at the 2-13-06 14 1 polling place. Can you? 2 MS. PIEPER: The only major problem if it goes down 3 is just that there's going to be a longer line, but nobody 4 will be turned away from the polls, as long as they get to the 5 polls by 7 p.m. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Jannett, let's get back to 7 this agenda item. I agree with the Judge that we need to have 8 the really bottom-line number that would include maintenance 9 contracts and upgrades or whatever. I'm sure there are many 10 things involved in that, so when we -- in May or whenever it 11 is we start peeking at the budget, that -- that you'd have the 12 bottom line, you know. And if these folks don't want to come 13 in and visit with us, that's -- 14 MS. PIEPER: Well, it's not that they didn't want 15 to. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But they were way too busy 17 with big clients. 18 MS. PIEPER: No, sir. They -- he asked me if it was 19 necessary, and I told him I did not think so. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 21 MS. PIEPER: I didn't see -- 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Whatever. I mean, if 23 you're -- 24 MS. PIEPER: He didn't need to drive this far just 25 to tell you that they don't have a source for funding because 2-13-06 15 1 of a smaller amount. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I understand. I 3 wouldn't want to come tell a government body all that, either. 4 The -- well, if you're comfortable in bringing those numbers, 5 that's fine with me. I don't -- that's your job. But if you 6 feel more comfortable about asking these folks to come and 7 appear at some point with the real, firm numbers, I think that 8 would be good. 9 MS. PIEPER: Okay. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else from any other member 11 of the Court on this? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I just have a question, 13 Judge. I'm wondering how closely Item 1.6 ties to this 14 discussion. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We'll know when we get there. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: I think it's a totally separate 17 issue. Involves the same equipment, but it's a totally 18 separate issue, according to my understanding. Any other 19 member of the Court have any -- anything further to offer on 20 this particular agenda item, Item 2? Okay. Item 3 -- it's 21 not quite 9:20, but the -- the person who is desiring to be 22 heard on that issue has asked that it not be considered and it 23 be passed on the agenda today, so we'll pass Item Number 3 and 24 we'll go to Item 4; consider, discuss, and take appropriate 25 action approving the AIS 150 ballot scanners surplus. 2-13-06 16 1 Ms. Pieper, what -- what is that particular item all about? 2 MS. PIEPER: Gentlemen, this is our old election 3 equipment that I would like to get declared surplus so we can 4 get rid of it. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Question. Worst case scenario, if 6 the equipment doesn't work like Commissioner Nicholson 7 mentioned, will that equipment still be useful in scanning or 8 counting -- 9 MS. PIEPER: No, sir. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: -- the ballots? If it doesn't work 11 on the new Hart equipment -- 12 MS. PIEPER: No, sir. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: -- it won't -- couldn't serve any 14 possible function in connection with future elections? 15 MS. PIEPER: No. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I move to declare the AIS 17 150 ballot scanners surplus. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 20 of the agenda item as indicated. Any question or discussion? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Usually when we declare 22 things surplus, we're provided an itemized list of those 23 things that are -- you know, by County number and the whole 24 thing. But -- 25 MS. PIEPER: This is two machines. They're ballot 2-13-06 17 1 scanners that we used. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is there a market for them 3 anyplace? 4 MS. PIEPER: No, sir. It would cost more to upgrade 5 those than what they're worth. That's why we're no longer 6 using them. And then I was told that they were not even sure 7 it could be upgraded to be usable. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or discussion on 9 that motion that's pending? All in favor of the motion, 10 signify by raising your right hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's go 15 ahead and take up 6, as long as we're on voting matters. 16 Consider, discuss, and take appropriate action approving 17 trading in three eSlate machines for a Disabled Access Unit 18 and a Judge's Booth Controller with Hart InterCivic. 19 MS. PIEPER: Gentlemen, whenever we were negotiating 20 the contracts with Hart InterCivic, there was a lot of things 21 that I was not clear on because I was not completely trained 22 in their system. So, I'm requesting to trade in three of the 23 eSlates to get an upgrade on a DAU. I know that doesn't make 24 sense to you. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, it doesn't. 2-13-06 18 1 MS. PIEPER: But it is necessary. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I know you're going to tell 3 us why, though. 4 MS. PIEPER: Because right now, if one goes down, I 5 don't have a backup. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How many did you buy 7 originally? 8 MS. PIEPER: Twenty -- 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: 21? 10 MS. PIEPER: 24. Well, this is hard to explain. We 11 have 21 DAU's, which are used for the handicapped, and then we 12 have -- in addition to that, we have three eSlates that 13 basically can only be used, like, for early voting, but I 14 don't need that. I need to trade these three in so I can get 15 one of them upgraded to a handicapped accessible unit in case 16 one goes down on Election Day. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Pieper, the -- the DAU I assume 18 you're speaking about is the DAU 5000 Upgrade Disabled Access 19 Unit? 20 MS. PIEPER: That is correct. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: And the eSlates that you're talking 22 about are the eSlate 3000 Electronic Voting Appliance? 23 MS. PIEPER: That is correct. When you look at 24 them, you do not know the difference, other than if it's not 25 upgraded, a handicapped person would not be -- it would not 2-13-06 19 1 function for a handicapped person. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: The Judge's Booth Controller that 3 you're talking about is a JBC 1000 Judge's Booth Controller? 4 MS. PIEPER: Yes, that controls the -- the voting 5 device. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me tell you what I got a problem 7 with. 8 MS. PIEPER: Okay. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Three eSlates, as indicated, have an 10 equivalent value of $7,500. The booth controller and the 11 Disabled Access Unit together have a combined value of $3,000. 12 That doesn't seem like a very good trade to me. And we 13 haven't used this equipment. 14 MS. PIEPER: I don't -- I don't know the numbers. I 15 know there will be a savings to us, but then I also know that 16 I don't need these three eSlates that cannot -- that the 17 handicapped voters cannot vote on. I need one that they can 18 vote on in case one goes down out in the county. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: I'd be more inclined to return two of 20 the eSlates for credit, trade one of them in at $500, and get 21 the -- 22 MS. PIEPER: Well, we're basically trading in three, 23 but we're getting one back that's upgraded, if that makes any 24 sense. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Does that make any sense, that we 2-13-06 20 1 have to upgrade the equipment that we got just got through 2 buying and haven't even put into use yet? 3 MS. PIEPER: Well, but we didn't upgrade those. 4 When we bought them, I didn't realize the difference between a 5 DAU and an eSlate. When you look at it, it all looks the 6 same. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What is the difference? 8 MS. PIEPER: The difference is -- is the audio, and 9 a regular eSlate does not accommodate handicapped. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, if you acquire these 11 disabled units -- DAU's, as you call them -- you made mention 12 earlier you're going to take in -- take three of your eSlates 13 and trade them in. Where does that leave you in terms of 14 backup if one of them goes down in your 21 polling locations? 15 MS. PIEPER: Well, we're trading in three and we're 16 getting one back that is upgraded to the DAU. It's got 17 whatever components in it that makes it accessible to the 18 handicapped. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm kind of wondering 20 whether the Judge's arithmetic is not bad. If the Judge's 21 arithmetic is good, we're -- we're coming out on the short end 22 of this. But I have another question, Jannett. Where was 23 Hart InterCivic when all this came about in terms of our 24 order? Didn't they tell us this stuff? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're too small to be 2-13-06 21 1 explained things. 2 MS. PIEPER: They were with me and we were 3 discussing this, but because of my -- I didn't have the 4 knowledge that I have now. I mean, the rep was good. You 5 know, he was thinking, okay, at early voting I will have the 6 one DAU unit and these three eSlates, because he thought I 7 wanted more electronic voting -- anyway, he and I were not on 8 the same page. I mean, it's not his fault and it's not my 9 fault. I just didn't have the understanding that I have now. 10 But when more of the voters come in, they're still going to be 11 handed that paper ballot and they'll still mark in their 12 square. Therefore, I don't need the three extra eSlates. I 13 need the extra DAU in case one of them should break or go 14 down. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What's wrong with the -- 16 the proposal that -- to send the unused new equipment back for 17 credit and buy this other device? 18 MS. PIEPER: Because if we buy it, we're going to be 19 out more money. If we just do it this way, we're not out any 20 money. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I thought we'd get a bigger 22 return on the cost of the new machine. 23 MS. PIEPER: It's the same price that we purchased 24 it for, so we're getting refunded the exact same price. But 25 by trading in two other ones, then that's -- that's able to 2-13-06 22 1 take care of our license and our software on that. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is this necessary for the 3 upcoming election? 4 MS. PIEPER: If I can get it in time, I -- I'd feel 5 a little bit more easier. These units will be taken out of 6 their case, more than likely taken out to curbside. I know 7 they're very durable, but if there's -- if they're dropped the 8 wrong way, then they could break. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you suppose it would be possible 10 for this Hart individual that's so extremely busy handling 11 these large accounts to maybe get down here for a few minutes? 12 I'd like to talk to him and see if my numbers are right. 13 MS. PIEPER: Well, he's not aware of this agenda 14 item. This is strictly me. The Hart rep that I've been 15 dealing with -- I mean, I've been dealing with my account 16 manager from Hart on this particular item. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, where's that individual? 18 MS. PIEPER: She'll be here sometime this week, but 19 I'm not real sure when. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, maybe that would be a good 21 start to be talking to that individual about adjusting these. 22 If my arithmetic is wrong here, let me know. I'm working off 23 of your numbers. And the unit prices of these pieces of 24 equipment and the way I calculate it, we're giving up 7,500 25 worth and we're getting back three grand, and that doesn't 2-13-06 23 1 jive for me. 2 MS. PIEPER: Well, this bottom section says that 3 we're saving $1,890. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where do I see that? 5 MS. PIEPER: Should be on -- it's on the backup. 6 Or, do you know what? I'm probably working off of a different 7 backup than you. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think so. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: That would make a difference. 10 MS. PIEPER: Well, I may not have received this in 11 time whenever I put that on the agenda. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 13 MS. PIEPER: But that's what I'm wanting to trade 14 in, and I'm wanting to receive an upgraded DAU. And by doing 15 that, it's not costing the County anything. I've also ran 16 that by Jennifer Holliman from the Secretary of the State's 17 office that works on the grants, because we would have to 18 modify the grant if this is approved. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That was going to be my next 20 question. What do we have to tell the State? 21 MS. PIEPER: I would have to fax them a copy of the 22 court order for the approval, and modify the grant. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What have you got there, 24 Judge? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I'm showing that in one place 2-13-06 24 1 it talks about delete two of the eSlates, and that shows a 2 credit of 5,000, and add -- I mean, the numbers are correct. 3 Add the DAU and the -- and the booth controller for a total of 4 3,000. But then it refers to deleting three eSlates -- 5 MS. PIEPER: But we're getting one of those back 6 that's upgraded. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, we're not actually 8 trading one in; we're sending it back for an upgrade? 9 MS. PIEPER: Right. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're going to get it back? 11 MS. PIEPER: Right. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: But they're showing that we're 13 getting the benefit of the trade of -- to the good of $1,890, 14 and I don't see it from these numbers. Maybe somebody else 15 can figure it out from that. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, for the sake -- 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Or maybe where it says "net cost of 18 change" is referring to our net cost, and shows a negative 19 1,890, so that we're losing two on the deal. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would be a loss of 21 value. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, mm-hmm. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Doesn't cost us anything, 24 but there's a loss of $1,900 of value. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 2-13-06 25 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That we've already paid for. 2 Would that be -- 3 MS. PIEPER: No, we haven't paid for it yet. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Somebody paid for it. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: No, Commissioner. That's probably 6 the good news. I don't think we've totally paid for it yet. 7 MS. PIEPER: No, we haven't paid for any of the 8 election equipment yet. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: We may have more control over this 10 item than we thought. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is the State still intending 12 to pay for it? 13 MS. PIEPER: Yes. That's why I have talked to the 14 Secretary of State on this, just to make sure that we're still 15 okay with it. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The way I think that this 17 needs to be handled -- I mean, I don't think that we're going 18 to be able to deal with this here today. Or it doesn't appear 19 that way to me, anyway. But I think the best way to handle it 20 is to -- we can postpone an agenda item for two days? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: One, 24 hours. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: One 24-hour period. We can 23 try that, and if her lady friend can get down here and sit 24 down with you and -- you know, if we can come back in here in 25 24 hours and -- when will she be here? 2-13-06 26 1 MS. PIEPER: I don't have my calendar, sir; I don't 2 know for sure. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or we can -- we can approve 4 it contingent on the Judge and this lady meeting and them 5 working the numbers together. Or we can throw this whole 6 thing in the trash can and start over. But I just don't 7 see -- 8 MS. PIEPER: Well, they're giving us the full 9 purchase price back. I mean, it's -- you know, like if you 10 trade a vehicle, then it's the depreciation. They're giving 11 us the full purchase price back. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I hear what you're saying. 13 The Judge's numbers -- he's sitting over there figuring these 14 things out and adding and subtracting. If they don't jive 15 with this company, we're not voting on this thing today. It's 16 that simple. Somebody from the company needs to come down and 17 tell us what they want to do. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm not going to vote on it 19 either way, Commissioner; I don't have enough information. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely not. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't even know what I'm 22 voting on. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Jannett, if you look at the 24 numbers that you just gave us -- 25 MS. PIEPER: Okay. 2-13-06 27 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- and the Judge is correct. 2 While it's not costing us anything, what it shows on the 3 bottom is a negative number, which is a loss of value. Now, 4 if the State is willing to accept that somehow or other, 5 that's a different ball game, but that's what I see. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But we don't know that. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We don't know that. 8 MS. PIEPER: Okay. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything further by anybody on the 10 Court on that agenda item? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Call your little friend; tell 12 mer her to hop the next Greyhound and come down here. Oh, 13 that's right, Greyhound's too way below them. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move to Item 5, approve the 15 annual accounts and status of the investments pursuant to the 16 provisions of the Texas Probate Code. Ms. Pieper, this is an 17 annual requirement, I think, for the investment -- individual 18 investment accounts that are maintained in your office? 19 MS. PIEPER: Gentlemen, this is just a formality we 20 go through once a year, that I have to notify you of the -- of 21 the investments that my office has made, and this is each one 22 of them. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval of the annual 24 accounts and status of investments pursuant to provisions of 25 Texas Probate Code 887(b). 2-13-06 28 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 3 of the agenda item. Any question or discussion? All in favor 4 of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's move to 9 Item 7; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 10 accept grant of real property donated by Nowlin and Becky 11 McBryde to Kerr County. Mr. Emerson? 12 MR. EMERSON: Yes, sir. This is a grant -- it's my 13 understanding that 14 and a half years ago, the McBrydes 14 generously donated land to Kerr County to expand a road, and 15 they have not had use of that property. Kerr County did, in 16 fact, build that road. And somehow in the process, the grant 17 was never completed, so the McBrydes have owned property that 18 they couldn't do anything with and paid taxes on property that 19 they couldn't do anything with for 14 and a half years, and 20 this grant will remedy that situation. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where is the road? 22 MR. EMERSON: Out where Avery and Harper Road 23 intersect, out in that area. I also think it's important to 24 tell you that I offered, on behalf of the McBrydes, to go back 25 and try to make restitution for taxes paid on property that 2-13-06 29 1 was a county road, and they very generously said, "No, thank 2 you." 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I move to accept the grant 4 of real property donated by Nowlin and Becky McBryde to Kerr 5 County. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 8 of the agenda item and for the property indicated in the 9 materials furnished. Any question or discussion? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just want to reiterate what 11 the attorney said. These good folks paid taxes on this 12 property that they had given to the County for 18 years, and 13 never one time made a -- raised a peep about it. Just smiled 14 and went on, and -- and we're finally getting to that after 15 all these years. Great citizens, and I appreciate them very 16 much. And thank you, Rex, for finally getting this done. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments? All 18 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's go to 23 Item 10, if we might. Consider, discuss, and take appropriate 24 action on banning all portable heaters from county buildings. 25 MR. HOLEKAMP: Okay. That's the agenda item. The 2-13-06 30 1 way I worded it might be a little bit -- 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Little bit of overkill? 3 MR. HOLEKAMP: -- little brash. I know I got some 4 people's attention. We've -- we have a problem -- several 5 issues -- problems in the old part of the courthouse; i.e., 6 the second floor -- first floor on the south side. We have 7 too much load for the amount of equipment that's being plugged 8 in. When we first went to computers back in -- what, '89? 9 '90? Anybody remember? 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: '89. 11 MR. HOLEKAMP: '89. We upgraded designated lines 12 for computers to be plugged in. Currently, there is a breaker 13 box back there with just those in it, but the sockets on the 14 walls are -- you can't tell by looking at them what is what. 15 And what's happened through the years is, we're plugging in 16 heaters, we're plugging in refrigerators, we're plugging in 17 radios, we're plugging in -- all of these items are being 18 plugged into electrical sockets, whether it -- and what's 19 happened is, is we use power strips; some people call them 20 surge protectors, but they will not protect against 21 overheating. So, I need some help. I need -- Mr. Trolinger 22 sent me an e-mail last week or week before last about a 23 particular computer that burned up due to -- got too hot; 24 space heater was blowing right on it, on the CPU part. He 25 brought it to my attention, and his request was -- is can you 2-13-06 31 1 -- can we cosponsor to do something? 2 Well, I understand -- I do understand people getting 3 cold in the winter. But I -- I think we're going to have to 4 start looking at the practicality of spending $20,000, $25,000 5 for upgrading electrical versus somebody bringing a throw, you 6 know, or something to put on their legs if they're cold. I 7 don't know how we get there. You know, I don't have the 8 authority to go in there, and I'm not going to go in there and 9 unplug them and take them out. We did that three, four years 10 ago, five years ago, and they've all reappeared -- or a lot of 11 them have, not all of them. So, what I'm asking is, I need 12 cooperation. John -- John Trolinger needs cooperation, 13 because not only is it a danger with the -- the electrical 14 overloading, it's a fire danger. Some people forget to turn 15 them off at night. And y'all know what a radiant heater does. 16 It's like, well, these old bathroom heaters. It pulls about 17 13 and a half amps. A computer probably -- I don't know. 18 John's not here; he walked out. You know, they barely run 19 two, three amps to run a CPU. Very little. So, we could 20 extend the life of our electrical considerably if we would 21 take the extras off the circuits. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, you're telling me that 23 the entire electrical system down there is designed for 24 computers? 25 MR. HOLEKAMP: No, no, no. No, I'm sorry. It 2-13-06 32 1 was -- that was added in 1980 -- what? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: '89. 3 MR. HOLEKAMP: '89. Designated breakers for 4 computers only. In fact, we -- there's a little sign on the 5 breaker box that says, "Do not touch - computers only." So -- 6 and what we're finding, my people, when there is a power 7 outage, they stay away from that one, because that's not ours. 8 That's basically the I.T. fellow's. Well, those are being 9 plugged into for other things other than computers, so what's 10 happening is that they can't handle it. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Do I understand you that the power 12 strip, or a surge protector, which is plugged into that 13 dedicated circuit for the computers -- 14 MR. HOLEKAMP: Mm-hmm. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: -- also has these heaters, for 16 example, plugged into them? 17 MR. HOLEKAMP: For example, yes. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: And that's what's creating the 19 problem on the computers? 20 MR. HOLEKAMP: A lot of the problems, yes. Yes. 21 Plus the overheating. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Glenn, what if -- 23 MR. HOLEKAMP: Go ahead. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I wasn't too sure I 25 understood that you don't have the authority to regulate 2-13-06 33 1 personal property in the courthouse. But what if you had the 2 authority -- a requirement that any employee that brings 3 personal electrical property in here has to be approved by 4 you, and the connection has to be approved? 5 MR. HOLEKAMP: That would be acceptable. I don't 6 have a problem -- I -- I think there's a mentality -- and I'm 7 not saying any -- any particular place, because we have it in 8 our own -- own little worlds, where people think as long as 9 there's a receptacle, they got electricity. It doesn't 10 necessarily mean that, because we have some incidences and 11 places where there's a power strip plugged into a power strip. 12 That is nine plugs off of one breaker. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Is this just an issue in 14 the courthouse, or is it the Sheriff's Office and -- 15 MR. HOLEKAMP: In the Sheriff -- the Sheriff and 16 them are real good about -- they don't have any little extra 17 stuff hardly at all over there plugged in. I mean, and a lot 18 of ours has been through the years. I mean, it's -- blaming 19 is not what I'm here for. I'm trying to figure out a 20 solution. I mean -- 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, sounds like you have, 22 you know, a problem with two parts of it. Mr. Trolinger 23 reported that the space heater was aimed at the computer and 24 caused the computer to burn out, right? 25 MR. HOLEKAMP: Correct. That was his -- 2-13-06 34 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're talking about the 2 draw-down on a particular circuit, aren't you? 3 MR. HOLEKAMP: Mm-hmm. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So it's really two different 5 problems. 6 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are these -- are these 8 County-owned or are these personal things that people bring 9 in? Because I know in my little annex office at Center Point, 10 you provided -- 11 MR. HOLEKAMP: They're some of each. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- the space heater over 13 there. 14 MR. HOLEKAMP: There's some of each. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's best to unplug them 16 when you leave; I understand that. 17 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yeah, there's some of each. I'm 18 not -- some of them say Maintenance, and that was before my 19 era in -- in Maintenance. Mr. Speakman, he had a lot of 20 heaters in the building, and -- and I -- there's certain areas 21 that they're not a problem, where the electrical has been 22 upgraded, where you're not trying to put six or seven things 23 onto one area. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Would it be helpful if the 25 Court, by direction -- well, there's no action styled in this 2-13-06 35 1 agenda item, but I'm just kind of talking out loud, thinking 2 out loud here. 3 MR. HOLEKAMP: Mm-hmm. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Would it be helpful if, in a 5 future agenda item, the Court gave the Maintenance Department 6 the authority to approve the installation of any, before 7 they're put in use, no matter where? The type, the 8 electricity draw-down, which receptacle they put it in and so 9 forth? 10 MR. HOLEKAMP: That would be helpful. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why don't we come back with 12 that styled that way? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Nemec wanted to be heard. 14 MS. NEMEC: Judge, Commissioners, I'm thinking maybe 15 that this is something that should be turned over to the 16 Safety Committee and have the fire department come in here and 17 walk through with us and see what is appropriate and -- and 18 what needs to be pulled out and stuff like that, and then the 19 Safety Committee report back to the Court with the findings. 20 And, you know, Mr. Holekamp is part of that Safety Committee, 21 so we could -- 22 JUDGE TINLEY: It would seem that the safety -- 23 safety issues would be one component of it, and getting the 24 Safety Committee involved in it very well would be 25 appropriate. 2-13-06 36 1 MS. NEMEC: So, if that's, you know, okay with the 2 Court, then Glenn and I and the Safety Committee can get 3 together on a date, get the fire department out here, and do a 4 walk-through of what is dangerous and what is not. 5 MR. HOLEKAMP: I don't know if this Court's ready 6 for the expense we'll get into when -- 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Fire department's going to tell 8 you what you have to do. 9 MR. HOLEKAMP: That's my point. And -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: It may be necessary that we can wind 11 our way through this thing without the necessity of getting 12 them here, and still consider the safety issues? Is that what 13 you're saying there, Mr. Holekamp? 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They may be here tomorrow, 15 after this meeting. 16 MR. HOLEKAMP: Well, you know, I'm just trying to -- 17 to get to a common-sense resolution. I know Mr. Trolinger's 18 got some issues with the overloads, and believe me, he -- he 19 gets very animated when you start messing with his equipment 20 and it gets too hot. We've spent a lot of money keeping this 21 new equipment that just came in -- trying to keep it cool 22 enough. It's very expensive. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Glenn, on the issue of the 24 heater pointed toward the computer -- 25 MR. HOLEKAMP: Mm-hmm. 2-13-06 37 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- and possibly doing -- I 2 mean, it seems to me that I would tell the employee, "Do not 3 point your heater toward the computer." And if they do, then 4 take their heater away from them or take their computer away 5 from them. I mean -- 6 MR. HOLEKAMP: Oh, I don't have that authority, 7 Commissioner. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You don't have the authority 9 to take somebody's heater? 10 MR. HOLEKAMP: I don't know. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Bill Williams does. 12 MR. HOLEKAMP: I don't want any more knots on my 13 head. (Laughter.) But you understand what I'm saying, is -- 14 is we're talking -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do, but you're also asking 16 for a solution. That's a solution. 17 MR. HOLEKAMP: I will make an attempt at it. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If they're damaging County 19 property and putting this building at risk fire-wise, unplug 20 the damn heater and haul it out. 21 MR. HOLEKAMP: Okay. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's simple as that. It 23 really is. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In any case, it's -- where 25 you notice that the heater is pointed at a computer and their 2-13-06 38 1 feet are near the heater, you know that there's something 2 wrong there, too. 3 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I think you probably already received 5 more authority than you really came here to get. 6 MR. HOLEKAMP: Thank y'all very much. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Anybody on the Court have anything 8 further to offer on this item? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got to turn my heater 10 down down here. (Laughter.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's -- let's move, if we might, to 12 Item 11; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to set 13 a public hearing for the revision of plat for Lots 3, 4 and 5 14 of Japonica Hills located in Precinct 4. Mr. Odom? 15 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. This is proposed to be done in 16 the alternate plat process, so at this time, all we need to do 17 is set a public hearing. What we're doing is moving lot lines 18 on three lots. We're not increasing or decreasing; we're just 19 moving the lines out, making some a little bit smaller and one 20 just a little bit bigger. And I suggest March the 13th, 2006, 21 at 10:10 a.m. for the public hearing. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: One more time? March what? 23 MR. ODOM: March 13th at 10:10 a.m. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I move to set a public 25 hearing for revision of plat, Lots 3, 4, and 5 of Japonica 2-13-06 39 1 Hills, Precinct 4, for March 13, 2006, at 10:10 a.m. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to set the 4 public hearing as indicated. Any question or discussion? All 5 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's move 10 to Item 12; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action for 11 a concept plan for Commercial Commerce Park of 6.89 acres west 12 of Center Point, and located in Precinct 2. 13 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. Hi, Danielle. What we have, 14 Ms. -- Mrs. Cunningham here is proposing to build a commercial 15 park in Center Point, and what she's proposed -- you can see 16 the layout in her narrative of her concept for commercial. At 17 this time, she wishes -- are you going to subdivide this into 18 five or into two? 19 MS. CUNNINGHAM: Into five. 20 MR. ODOM: Into five, okay. And I believe that 21 Commissioner Williams, as well as Commissioner Letz -- I had 22 talked to Jonathan about it. What -- what it says in our 23 rules is that commercial is to be taken on a case-by-case 24 proposal. We've only had one, and that is off of Precinct 4 25 area there; Mr. Vlasek, I believe, built that one down there, 2-13-06 40 1 so we don't have much precedents. But what I see and what 2 we've discussed is -- well, it sort of depends on the Court 3 and how you perceive things and what you wish to do, but I -- 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let me bring the Court up to 5 date on the meeting that we had in Danielle's office, 6 Commissioner Letz and I, and some of the differences in -- 7 that came from that meeting, potential suggested differences 8 as opposed to the memo the Court had, and then we'll see what 9 questions the Court has after that. 10 MR. ODOM: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where Mrs. Cunningham is 12 proposing that there be a variance granted for the 13 right-of-way from 60 to 40 feet, upon which would be 14 constructed a country lane, the suggestion from our meeting 15 came out that it would be a better situation to have a 60-foot 16 right-of-way and a local road constructed, because of the type 17 of traffic that would be serving this particular commercial 18 development. That, of course, takes some property away from 19 Ms. Cunningham, for she and her husband for future development 20 on Lots, 1, 2, 3 and 4 -- or is it the other way around, 2, 3, 21 4, and 5? Whichever it is, it was her hope that she could 22 subdivide the remaining lots into 1-acre parcels, and from the 23 discussion that we had, it was also suggested that having a 24 1-acre lot is not -- not totally written in stone. That the 25 -- the acreage could be a little bit less than 1 acre, because 2-13-06 41 1 we're going to do the road properly without a variance and so 2 forth, so any variance that might be forthcoming from the 3 Court would be on the lot size being less than -- if 4 necessary, on the lot size being less than 1 acre. Water does 5 not play into it, based on Commissioner Letz' point of view, 6 and he's our accepted expert on water matters in Region J, 7 because the accountability for the water usage in Kerr County 8 has already been included for these individuals, and so we're 9 not really talking about a lot of water on -- on five parcels 10 of ground that would be developed as commercial. So, with 11 that explanation, Danielle, anything you want to add to it and 12 enlighten the Court? 13 MS. CUNNINGHAM: One thing we talked about in 14 relation to the reduction in the easement, the reason for that 15 is, you know, we tried to require more property so that we -- 16 you know, we'd have that room, but we only have 250 feet in 17 width. And for the type of structures that we want to allow 18 to go in there, mostly warehouse-type space, we felt like 19 having too narrow of a lot would minimize the opportunities 20 for different types of businesses there. And, you know, one 21 concession we'd be more than willing to make is maybe widen 22 the road over what -- what y'all would require if -- if you'd 23 be willing to lessen that easement width. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Ms. Cunningham, you're 25 going to occupy Lot 1 with your business? 2-13-06 42 1 MS. CUNNINGHAM: Yes, sir. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What kind of businesses do 3 you expect would be on 2, 3, 4, and 5? 4 MS. CUNNINGHAM: You know, at this point, I don't 5 know. I hope -- hope we can attract, you know -- 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Retail? 7 MS. CUNNINGHAM: No, not retail. I think more, you 8 know, manufacturing and industrial. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: How many people do you 10 employ? 11 MS. CUNNINGHAM: Three. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thank you. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But you don't have any 14 intention of building a home on any of this -- 15 MS. CUNNINGHAM: Absolutely not. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- of these properties, or 17 moving a mobile home in there and moving the children in there 18 to be night watchmen, or -- 19 MS. CUNNINGHAM: No, we -- we haven't thought about 20 that. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's all industry? 22 MS. CUNNINGHAM: Right. And -- and we're going to 23 be pretty protective of what type of businesses we allow in 24 there, because we're making a significant investment in our 25 own business in the back lot, and we obviously would want 2-13-06 43 1 things that are going to help -- help the value of our 2 property rather than take away from it. Mobile homes would 3 definitely not fall into that category. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There was one other 5 suggestion that came out of our meeting, you recall, and that 6 had to do with a need for either a cul-de-sac or a greater 7 turnaround area on the -- on the Parcel Number 1 that you 8 intend to be for your business. 9 MS. CUNNINGHAM: Well, we feel like, you know, we do 10 need to add a cul-de-sac probably at the end of Lot 2. And it 11 may -- may go up onto Lot 1 as well, just to allow, you know, 12 cars or trucks that go in when we're closed and our -- you 13 know, we have a gate closed, so that they could turn around. 14 And I think Commissioner Letz said that wasn't a requirement, 15 but I think it's something we all agree would -- would make 16 common sense. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. You do have 18 18-wheelers coming and going? 19 MS. CUNNINGHAM: We do. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We don't want them backing 21 out on Highway 27. 22 MS. CUNNINGHAM: No, I don't think -- I don't think 23 that would be a good -- good situation. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is this -- this is the 25 Thomason property? 2-13-06 44 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, and this is Thomason's 2 purchasing from -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right. Is this the Little 4 League area? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The Little League is totally 6 to the right, I believe. Is that correct? Little League 7 fields are totally to the right? 8 MR. ODOM: Yes. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Totally to the right. 10 MR. ODOM: Yes. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And the parcel immediately 12 between the proposed site and the Little League is still 13 Mr. Thomason's? 14 MS. CUNNINGHAM: No, he sold that. And, supposedly, 15 the people who purchased it, in the long-term, plan to put 16 mini storage in that area. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Okay. 18 MR. ODOM: Also, I believe that -- talking to 19 Commissioner Letz, that he was talking that we didn't have a 20 problem. Our setback's 20 foot. Because this -- because this 21 is so narrow, and because we wish to go with a 60-foot, that a 22 modification, which is a case-by-case, but maybe a 10-foot 23 setback for the buildings. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Side setback, you're talking about? 25 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir, off the road there, instead of 2-13-06 45 1 a 20-foot, would give them a little bit more room to build a 2 commercial park, because it is so narrow. But I am in 3 agreement with a 60-foot easement, and I think that we should 4 go to maybe 8 inches of crushed base instead of 6 inches 5 because of the commercial load. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 8 inches? 7 MR. ODOM: 8 inches. Build a better -- better road 8 with a cul-de-sac, and I think she could design that or have 9 that designed some way, maybe a half -- back up in there, but 10 let someone design it that we can have a turnaround back there 11 and have a little bit more. Normally, commercial is a little 12 bit thicker pavement, and -- and I think we should have 13 something that if we maintain, we don't lose it. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you think, Leonard, that 15 on a commercial, since -- since the rules indicate these 16 things are taken on a case-by-case basis, do you believe it's 17 necessary to also have a variance for the lot size for Lots 2, 18 3, 4, and 5? 19 MR. ODOM: I think it should be addressed that 20 that's what she's wanting to know, if there should be a 21 variance. I don't know that -- I think that will probably 22 come as you design this for a preliminary, that we could see 23 where that's at. But I'm like Commissioner Letz, that 24 commercial is not like a home, and you're not going to use 25 that much, and -- and we should encourage. 2-13-06 46 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We should encourage -- 2 MR. ODOM: We should encourage commercial 3 development. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Here's an opportunity to -- 5 MR. ODOM: This is unique. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- maintain and expand a 7 local business, and maybe get four more, maybe some jobs. We 8 don't have very much opportunities -- 9 MR. ODOM: We don't have many. And that area's 10 beginning to grow, and I think that this is a pilot thing. 11 This is a step-by-step. We don't have much to go by, but I 12 don't think we should be setting -- personally, be set at 13 1 acre. I think we should look at it and try to fit it. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We don't -- don't need to 15 make so it difficult that the deal doesn't get done. 16 MR. ODOM: We would like for her to stay here and 17 build. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Cunningham, let me ask you, if I 19 might, what is going to be the difference in the remaining 20 four lot sizes, reducing from a -- or increasing from a 21 40-foot to a 60-foot? What -- what's going to be the effect 22 on the remaining lot size? 23 MS. CUNNINGHAM: Well, it would -- obviously, we've 24 got about 1,000 feet in length. And if you look -- you know, 25 by 20, you're looking at another half acre. 2-13-06 47 1 MR. ODOM: Then again, if you -- if you take your 2 setback and go 10-foot -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm getting there. 4 MR. ODOM: Okay. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: If we -- if we reduce the side 6 setback on the side lot lines by 10-foot on either side for 7 your improvements, won't that kind of be pretty much an even 8 trade-off there? 9 MS. CUNNINGHAM: In some respects, I think so. 10 Obviously, it might reduce the market value, you know, from my 11 point of view, you know, for selling it by the square foot. 12 It's going to take away some. But -- 13 MR. ODOM: If -- 14 JUDGE TINLEY: What do you think it will have -- 15 what effect will that have on being able to get the deal done? 16 And I realize we're dealing in speculation here, but I just 17 want your -- off top of your head thinking. 18 MS. CUNNINGHAM: I think that it allows -- it just 19 creates more opportunity for -- for larger businesses to go 20 into those lots. Instead of -- you know, we've been in a 21 search for property for our business for about three years, 22 and, you know, just a tenth of an acre could make a difference 23 on whether our building would fit on that property or not. 24 And that's -- that's my perspective. It's coming from 25 frustration from not being able to find property for our 2-13-06 48 1 business. And I really just want to have the most usable land 2 that we can. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, it does occur to me that if 4 we're looking at building footprint, by modifying the 5 setbacks, that would -- certainly would appear to be at least 6 an even trade, if not better. What's the rear setback? Also 7 10 foot? 8 MR. ODOM: I'm sorry, rear? Yes, I believe so, 10 9 foot off the rear. But she's up against the L.C.R.A. -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 11 MR. ODOM: -- easement there. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's part of the problem, 13 Judge. Got that big L.C.R.A. easement -- 14 MR. ODOM: She's got the big L.C.R.A. It really 15 hampers her to one side where she could build the road, how to 16 make this work more efficiently. 17 MS. CUNNINGHAM: As Leonard put it, we're basically 18 hemmed in at this point. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This will be a private road, 21 correct? 22 MS. CUNNINGHAM: Yes. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Built to county specs, but 24 it will be a private road. 25 MS. CUNNINGHAM: Yes. 2-13-06 49 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What problem do you have 2 with -- with a -- a 50-foot right-of-way constructed to local 3 road standards? Do you have a problem? Let me ask it that 4 way. 5 MR. ODOM: Directed to me? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Directing the question to 7 you gentlemen. 8 MR. ODOM: Oh, okay. If we can get a 20-foot 9 pavement, 8 inches of base, and some type of cul-de-sac down 10 there to turn that traffic around, we got a different type of 11 traffic, and it's bigger trucks, so that's a compromise that's 12 probably -- I could live with it. She could -- we could get 13 the truck traffic in and out; that's what I'm concerned about, 14 then hit that -- hit 27 down there to get them out. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 40 foot? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, make it 50 foot. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: With 20-foot surface? 18 MR. ODOM: 10-foot setback. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: If we modify that, also, I think 22 we're going to allow you a little bit bigger building 23 footprint. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That just seems big enough 25 to me for a dead-end private road. Now, I realize it's got to 2-13-06 50 1 be built well enough that it can handle heavy trucks, but that 2 seems like -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You think it is or is not? 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think that's a good 5 compromise. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Does that work for 7 you, Danielle? 8 MS. CUNNINGHAM: Absolutely. 9 MR. ODOM: She'll -- it should basically give you a 10 60-foot right-of-way, what she got with a 10-foot setback. 11 That's probably very astute. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Since they're -- 13 JUDGE TINLEY: That gives her more flexibility as 14 far as the building footprint, is what I'm looking at. And 15 also more -- more versatility of the types of businesses to go 16 in, if you've got a larger footprint for the building. 17 MR. ODOM: She's just -- 18 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm like Commissioner Nicholson; I 19 want the deal to get done. 20 MS. CUNNINGHAM: I do as well. 21 MR. ODOM: So, may we go over what she expects to do 22 so she can get with her -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think the Commissioner has 24 a question. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have probably the most 2-13-06 51 1 important question of -- out of the whole thing. What is 2 Specialty Blends? 3 MS. CUNNINGHAM: That's a secret. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is it a secret? 5 MS. CUNNINGHAM: No. We're a commercial winery. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Commercial winery? 7 MS. CUNNINGHAM: Yes. Believe it or not, there's 8 one in Kerr County. We do liquor-flavored wines, and we sell 9 to amphitheaters, sports stadiums, restaurants, mostly 10 businesses that have a beer and wine license here in Texas, 11 but we're also expanding to other states. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Is your product for sale 13 locally? 14 MS. CUNNINGHAM: I'm sorry, sir? 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Is your product for sale 16 locally? 17 MS. CUNNINGHAM: No, we're really a commercial 18 operation. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 20 MS. CUNNINGHAM: We sell mainly to other beer and 21 wine licensees. So -- 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, you can get a wine with a 23 bourbon flavor? 24 MS. CUNNINGHAM: Exactly. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that what you're saying? 2-13-06 52 1 Order pina colada? 2 MS. CUNNINGHAM: Our biggest product is our tequila 3 flavor, so restaurants that have beer and wine licenses can 4 serve margaritas. That's the concept. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got all these pictures 6 dancing through my head here. Have a glass of wine and dance 7 on the tables. This is good. I like this. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let's see if we can recap it 9 here. 10 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is a concept plan. 12 MR. ODOM: Right. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And the Court appears to be 14 looking favorably upon a 50-foot right-of-way instead of 60, a 15 20-foot pavement surface built to county standards with an 16 8-inch base, a 10-foot side and back road setback, as opposed 17 to -- that would be a variance, and some kind of a 18 turnaround -- I guess a cul-de-sac? 19 MR. ODOM: Cul-de-sac. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would be partially on 21 Lot Number 1 and Number 2? 22 MR. ODOM: However the engineer thinks he can make 23 it fit. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that what I'm hearing? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 2-13-06 53 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Is that a motion? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That work for you, Danielle? 3 MS. CUNNINGHAM: Yes, sir. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Concept plan. Thanks for 5 coming. 6 MR. ODOM: Come back to us with a preliminary, all 7 right? Just have them contact me. 8 MS. CUNNINGHAM: Thank you all. Appreciate it. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Get the deal done. Okay, let's go 10 back to Item 8, if -- if we might. It was a timed item for 11 10 a.m. It's a little bit past that now. Consider and take 12 action on the resignation of F.C. Henson from the Board of 13 Commissioners of Kerr County Emergency Service District 14 Number 2. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, I'm told that, as a 16 formality, it's necessary for the Court to take action to 17 accept the resignation of an appointed ESD Commissioner. I 18 don't know what we would do if we didn't approve it. I guess 19 Mr. Henson would have to go back to work. But I move that we 20 approve the resignation of F.C. Henderson (sic) from the Board 21 of Commissioners of Kerr County Emergency Service District 22 Number 2. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. F.C. Henson? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Henson. What did I say? 2-13-06 54 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Henderson. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: A lot of Hendersons out there in that 3 part; it's understandable you'd get them confused. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I usually call him Corky 5 Nelson. I think that was a football coach, wasn't it? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 7 of the resignation of F.C. Henson from the Board of 8 Commissioners, Kerr County Emergency Services District Number 9 2. Any question or discussion on the motion? All in favor of 10 the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's move to 15 Item 12, if we might. Consider, discuss, and take appropriate 16 action to allow Road and Bridge to advertise for annual bids 17 on trap rock, aggregate, asphalt, emulsion oils, corrugated 18 metal pipe, road base material, black base, and cold mix. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 13, you mean, Judge? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: What did I call it, 12? It's Item 21 13. My apologies. 22 MR. ODOM: Our annual bid expires April the 1st of 23 '06 here. Therefore, we ask that you allow us to advertise 24 for bids on road materials listed above. It's for our -- all 25 our working items; asphalt base, cold mix, emulsion. With the 2-13-06 55 1 price of fuel-related products being so unstable, and 2 continuing to be unstable, we've already had companies who are 3 unable to deliver to us at our current bid prices; therefore, 4 we are considering a cost-plus bid on all related items. That 5 is an informational statement to say that we wish to look at 6 that. I'm not quite sure how the State of Texas has started 7 to do that, because they're having the same thing with their 8 bids, and I wanted to review how they went through that 9 process or what they did and how it works. But, with the 10 surcharges in fuel, it is -- it's frightening of where we set 11 the budget in May, and we'll be setting a new one. Where's 12 petroleum going to -- we just don't know, but the related 13 products are just going higher and higher. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for approval. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 17 of the agenda item. Any question or discussion? Mr. Odom? 18 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Did I understand you correctly that 20 some of the bids which we were submitted last year that are 21 still valid bids, that our vendors are unable to supply us? 22 MR. ODOM: That's -- well, let's put it this way; 23 we've got -- most of our bids have been where they're at. 24 Petroleum is one thing -- we're not shooting petroleum; we 25 just know that it's going up. And that -- you know, just -- 2-13-06 56 1 just in general. I mean, fuel and everything is just going 2 higher. And we normally take a bid of three -- get three bids 3 locally, and have been successful in holding our prices down 4 there. We're holding in there as far as the budget. When you 5 look at it, we're right at where we need to be for 6 January 31st. So, we just see it going higher. I see $75 a 7 barrel or higher, you know, so it's -- we're just running out 8 of time. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or discussion on 10 the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 11 your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's go to 16 Item 15, if we might. Consider, discuss, and take appropriate 17 action for final revision of plat for Block 8, Lots 5 through 18 9, Greenwood Forest Number 6, located in the Ingram ETJ and in 19 Precinct 4. 20 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. At this time, we'd like to 21 pass on this. We were waiting till the end of the week; they 22 were to be at Ingram. They had to go to City Council to have 23 that signed and have the mylar signed, and they do not have 24 that. So, I'm sorry. We put it on there with -- hoping that 25 that would come about, but it did not, so we wish to pass on 2-13-06 57 1 this until they get all the signature blocks that they need. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Very good. Let's move to Item 16; 3 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to set a public 4 hearing for revision of plat for Lots 79 and 80 in Cypress 5 Park, Section Two, located in Precinct 3. 6 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. This is -- this will be done 7 on the alternate plat process, so at this time, all we need to 8 do is set a public hearing. I suggest March 13th, 2006, at 9 10:15 a.m. for the public hearing. Basically, what they're 10 doing is moving a lot line over. They're not increasing 11 anything. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move to approve. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to set a 15 public hearing for the revision of plat for Lots 79 and 80 in 16 Cypress Park, Section Two, for March 13th, '06, at 10:15 a.m. 17 Any question or discussion on the motion? All in favor, 18 signify by raising your right hand. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Item 17, 23 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action for the 24 preliminary plat of Cypress Springs Estates, Phase 2, Section 25 2, located in Precinct 4. 2-13-06 58 1 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. This is before you again. We 2 had this, I think, about two weeks ago. This is basically the 3 same concept. There are some minor changes from the last time 4 that we spoke. There are now 71 lots instead of 75, and that 5 is because of that relocation of the road that we talked 6 about. As we discussed, this was approved in 2001. It's a 7 master plan, so it hasn't changed. Mr. Morrow is asking Court 8 approval on the following: That the preliminary plat approval 9 as presented today under the December 11th, 2000 Subdivision 10 Rules. The fees, we have that; last time the Court waived 11 those fees, because he'd already paid them. As -- and that 12 the drainage issues to comply with the upcoming rules. As far 13 as drainage is concerned, he has three detention ponds and 14 five structures designed in this preliminary plat, and that if 15 Les -- Mr. Harvey should be here. I don't -- 16 MR. HARVEY: Yes, sir. 17 MR. ODOM: Les is here. If there's any question as 18 far as drainage, we'll -- I would have Les to be here. But I 19 do not see a problem. This is what we discussed. This is 20 what's been trying to be put together, and I suggest that you 21 accept the preliminary plat and let Mr. Morrow get on with the 22 subdivision. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let me just say that the 24 engineers and the owner and Len and the surveyor worked pretty 25 hard on this, and there's been several meetings, and we know a 2-13-06 59 1 whole lot about this subdivision. I've got a real good 2 feeling that the drainage issues are going to be taken care of 3 in a first-class fashion, so I don't -- I'm supportive of 4 this. There is a change. We'll have four fewer lots than was 5 approved in the master plan, and that's usually a pretty good 6 way to go. Fewer is better than more. So, I'm -- I'm 7 supporting this, and I want to make a motion that we approve 8 the preliminary plat of Cypress Springs Estates, Phase 2, 9 Section 2, in Precinct 4, and set a public hearing for 10 March 13th at 10:30 a.m. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. However... 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and second to approve 13 the preliminary plat of Cypress Springs Estates, Phase 2, 14 Section 2, located in Precinct 4, and set a public hearing on 15 the same for March 13, '06, at -- 10 a.m.? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 10:30. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: 10:30. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Wait a minute. I must have 19 the wrong date, Judge. 20 MS. HARDIN: We don't need a public hearing. 21 MR. ODOM: Don't need one. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. That's why it's not included in 23 the agenda item. And I'm not sure we can get there, anyway. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What's the next step? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just approving the 2-13-06 60 1 preliminary plat. 2 MR. ODOM: Preliminary, and then he's got a year 3 from this time to -- 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 5 MR. ODOM: -- get the construction done. 6 MR. HARVEY: One year to present the final plat. 7 MR. ODOM: That's right. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you want to delete the public 9 hearing portion? 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes, delete the public 11 hearing. I'm just trying to move it along, start building 12 some houses in there. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We have a motion and a second 14 to approve the preliminary plat of Cypress Springs Estates, 15 Phase 2, Section 2, located in Precinct 4. Any question or 16 discussion? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just one quick question. 18 Commissioner, this is not in the proximity of that development 19 where we had a lot of discussion from the Bumble Bee Hills 20 people? 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It is close to that, and 22 probably that prompted a little closer examination of drainage 23 issues than it would normally get. But, again, I'm very 24 confident that that's under control. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 2-13-06 61 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't want to be hearing 2 from Bumble Bee again. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I just wanted to make 4 a comment. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, sir? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: To the untrained eye, this 7 may seem a little goofy, the way some of this verbiage is 8 here, but we -- it appears that the preliminary plat approval 9 today comes under the 2000 rules. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then the drainage part of 12 it will come under rules that we haven't even adopted yet. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's correct. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: But are in draft form. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That are in draft form. 16 Well, I'm glad we're doing that, and that's fine with me, but 17 that's -- that's almost goofy that we're doing that thing. 18 We've got to get down the road and get these things adopted 19 and concrete, and -- 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Developers would like for 21 us to do that also, so they know where they stand. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's almost -- to me, it's 23 almost foolish that you adopt -- that you approve something 24 under something that might happen, and may not happen. But -- 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or could change before it 2-13-06 62 1 does happen. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, absolutely. But, 3 anyway, I'm so proud of y'all, and happy for you too. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: The one thing it does indicate that I 5 think is -- is favorable to the Court is it indicates that the 6 developers have confidence in the Court that we're going to do 7 something that's appropriate and fair. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait a minute. Wait a 9 minute. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I see a yes and I see a no. 11 (Laughter.) 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Maybe we shouldn't have gone 13 there. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I opened that one up, didn't I? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, you did. 16 MR. ODOM: I'm sorry for the wording, if it confused 17 you. But that's the way -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm not confused. Believe 19 me, I'm not confused about it. 20 MR. ODOM: I just think, you know, lay it out on the 21 table, "This is the way we're doing it," and we're taking the 22 new rules and stepping forward. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other question or comments on the 24 pending motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 25 raising your right hand. 2-13-06 63 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let us go 5 back to Item 9, if we might. Consider and take action on 6 nominations for the Board of Commissioners of Kerr County 7 Emergency Services District Number 1. That was a timed item 8 for 10:15. It's past that time now. Commissioner Nicholson? 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: This is a -- a request to 10 approve three nominations to serve on the ESD Number 1 Board. 11 ESD Number 1 is largely Precinct 4, but it's Precinct 1 also, 12 and their major focus, of course, is on working with the 13 Ingram Volunteer Fire Department to provide fire protection 14 for that part of west Kerr County. They do a terrific job, 15 and the progress over the last two or three years is just -- 16 just amazing. And these two entities, the ESD Number 1 and 17 volunteer fire department, work very well together. So, I'm 18 going to nominate for two-year terms reappointments of 19 Commissioners Kenneth Wood and Donald Oehler, and for a new 20 two-year term, Mrs. Jo Ann Varner. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll second that, if that's a 22 motion. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion is made and seconded for 25 the appointment to two-year terms on the Kerr County Emergency 2-13-06 64 1 Services District Number 1 the following: Kenneth Wood, 2 Donald Oehler, and Mrs. Jo Ann Varner. Any question or 3 discussion on that motion? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll just make the comment 5 that Ms. Varner's been there a lifetime, and a lady of 6 integrity. She's a good, solid person, and I'm proud to vote 7 for her. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other question or comment? All 9 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. That motion 12 does carry. Let's move to Item 18, if we might. Consider, 13 discuss, and take appropriate action to allow for South Texas 14 Blood and Tissue Center to provide a blood drive for Brenda 15 Guerrin. Ms. Hardin? 16 MS. HARDIN: Good morning. As most of you know, 17 Brenda is the wife of Dietert Guerrin, who is one of our 18 employees. She's having stomach cancer surgery this morning. 19 She's already had two blood transfusions, and South Texas 20 Blood and Tissue Center was here on January the 26th, but we 21 only had, like, a day's notice. We got five pints, but they 22 need to -- she needs more, so we're asking the Court to allow 23 us to park -- actually, Mrs. Rita Holberg -- Holmberg called 24 me and asked me if we would like to do it again, and requested 25 that it be done on the courthouse square. So, we would like 2-13-06 65 1 permission from the Court to park the unit on the courthouse 2 square March the 17th from 10 a.m. to 2 p.m. We ask that we 3 be allowed to put some flyers out, and that you participate in 4 any way you can. And I talked to Glenn Holekamp, and he 5 suggested that we park the unit on the Sidney Baker/Main 6 Street corner at an angle for that day. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 10 of the agenda item. Any question or discussion? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Talking about the flyers, 12 now, are these flyers that we're going to hand out to all the 13 County employees asking them to participate? Or -- 14 MS. HARDIN: I e-mailed -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- going around town? 16 MS. HARDIN: I e-mailed some. I would like to post 17 them in a couple places in the courthouse. Camp Verde Store 18 is the company that she works for. We would post some there. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 20 MS. HARDIN: I was going to ask the credit union and 21 some of the places of business that these people -- Dietert's 22 going to give me a list. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 24 MS. HARDIN: And she is in surgery today, this 25 morning. 2-13-06 66 1 JUDGE TINLEY: The -- the blood unit would not be 2 exclusively for the purpose of -- of accepting donations 3 solely for that purpose. Anybody could give blood, but those 4 that -- that want to designate it to bank it for this 5 individual would be able to do that, but anyone could give 6 blood. 7 MS. HARDIN: I believe that's the case, as that was 8 for the 26th. And we just made a little flyer like this, and 9 the people who went just took it with them. And she got my 10 name and asked me if we would do it again. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Truby, as I understand it 12 now, Ms. Guerrin that's in surgery this morning, her husband 13 is one of our employees. 14 MS. HARDIN: Yes, he is. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Road and Bridge employees 16 that is having cancer problems himself. 17 MS. HARDIN: That's correct. He's had surgery and 18 is being treated, too. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And now his wife is having 20 some serious problems. Not to say that his wasn't serious, 21 but hers is really serious. 22 MS. HARDIN: That's correct. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And I just think that we need 24 to do everything that we can, because this is our family here, 25 a family member. And I would call on all of our employees and 2-13-06 67 1 everybody within hearing distance, including the Kerrville 2 Daily Times, -- 3 MS. HARDIN: Thank you. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- to see what they can do to 5 help these people out. They're County employees. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: The -- even though the -- the 7 collection of the blood might be after the fact, they can 8 retroactively bank that blood to her account? 9 MS. HARDIN: That's correct. I asked them that, and 10 they said that would be -- that they could do that. They 11 can -- for the transfusion she's already had, they will go 12 back and contact the hospital at which it was done. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: You had a question or comment? 14 MR. EMERSON: I was just going to say I'd be happy 15 to contribute, but so long as the caveat's there that we're 16 not expending County assets for the benefit of any particular 17 individual. We're not allowed to statutorily do it. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 19 MR. EMERSON: So, if you need somebody to pay for 20 copies or something, call me. I'll donate. 21 MS. HARDIN: Okay. All right, thank you. But it's 22 okay to send it over the internet, right? 23 MR. EMERSON: What part of the internet falls in -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion before the Court is to 25 allow the South Texas Blood and Tissue Center to place the 2-13-06 68 1 unit here on the courthouse property at that particular time 2 indicated. 3 MS. HARDIN: Thank you. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or comment on 5 the motion? All in favor, signify by raising your right hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's move to 10 Item 19. Consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 11 correct public hearing date on Court Order Number 29531 for 12 March the 6th to March 13th, 2006. 13 MS. HARDIN: I apologize for having to bring this 14 back. And in a senior moment, I looked at the calendar 15 incorrectly, and y'all are not having court on March the 6th, 16 so I would ask that it be done on March the 13th. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move to approve. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 20 of the agenda item. Any question or discussion? All in favor 21 of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's move to 2-13-06 69 1 Item 20, if we might. Approve the resolution for application 2 for Victims of Crime Act Grant for 2006-2007 grant year, that 3 grant year being from July 1, 2006, through June 30th, 2007, 4 to fund the Crime Victims Rights Coordinator program. 5 Ms. Lavender is unable to be with us here today; she had a 6 death in -- in her family, and it was necessary for her to be 7 away. Mr. Emerson, you -- did you want to say anything about 8 that? 9 MR. EMERSON: I was just going to throw in that she 10 isn't here because her husband's brother passed away, and this 11 is a continuation of the same grant that the Court has 12 currently funded, which I don't have the numbers in front of 13 me, because they're in Rosa's care, but the stats that she's 14 produced in that position are significantly above what was 15 initially furnished to the grant program, so it has been very 16 successfully implemented. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: And the net cost to Kerr County in 18 cash or in in-kind is essentially the same as -- 19 MR. EMERSON: That's my understanding. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: -- as what it was? 21 MR. EMERSON: Yes, sir. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 2-13-06 70 1 for application to the Victims of Crime Act Grant for 2 2006-2007 as indicated in the agenda item. Any question or 3 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 4 your right hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's see if 9 we can get 21 out of the way right quick. Consider, discuss, 10 and take appropriate action on a request from Karl Buchler to 11 use Flat Rock Lake Park Easter weekend, April 15th and 16th, 12 for the annual Easter Fest. Commissioner Williams? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Karl, you want to tell us 14 about this year? 15 MR. BUCHLER: Well, the Easter egg's ready to lay 16 the golden egg again. Last year, we had several hundred kids 17 that come out to participate. We had a good time. It's 18 growing every year. We're having more vendors and more 19 participation in the chili and -- and barbecue cook-off. Last 20 year we held the first annual world championship venison 21 cook-off, and we had about 30 cooks in that event, so this 22 year we're expecting more. We raised several thousand dollars 23 last year to give to the Ladies Crisis Center here in 24 Kerrville. This year, the benefactor will go to the Kerrville 25 Elks Lodge for their scholarship fund. And the Kerrville Elks 2-13-06 71 1 Lodge doesn't only give the money to Kerrville itself; it's in 2 Kerr County. We gave some scholarships last year to Center 3 Point and Hunt, and it did -- it goes throughout the county, 4 not just Kerrville. But we would like to use the park again 5 this year. We will have to come in on Thursday -- Wednesday 6 to start getting ready for the vendor spots and putting up the 7 tents, and Thursday people will start showing up a little bit, 8 and then Friday we'll have the -- the cooks' party, and 9 Saturday will be the cook-off. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let me see if I have the 11 dates correct, Karl. We need to have the dates correct. 12 MR. BUCHLER: April the 15th, excuse me, will be -- 13 the actual day of the cook-off is Saturday, April the 15th. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 15 MR. BUCHLER: But we will start preparing on the 16 13th, and then the 14th we'll start actually -- people will 17 start showing up. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, we should be -- you 19 should be looking for approval from the 13th to the 15th; is 20 that correct? 21 MR. BUCHLER: Yes, sir. And -- yes, sir. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Karl, how many years will 23 this make, if we get this approved? 24 MR. BUCHLER: I think I asked to move it to Flat 25 Rock Lake -- I think it was, like, five or six years ago. 2-13-06 72 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think so. 2 MR. BUCHLER: And prior to that, they was having it 3 at the Schreiner College, and prior to that they was having it 4 at Louise Hays Park, and so it's been around for quite a 5 while. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're doing well. Now, how 7 much of the park do you -- do you take up? How much actual 8 space? 9 MR. BUCHLER: We actually use most of it, yes, sir. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Most of it? 11 MR. BUCHLER: Yes, sir. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, if we -- this is just a 13 comment to the Court. If we were to designate a quarter or a 14 half of that park as a dog park, then these kind of functions 15 and the grants and -- I mean the -- the moneys that they pass 16 down through the community would be stymied, wouldn't it? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Would be impaired. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Impaired. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Significantly impaired. I 20 agree with your question. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just wanted to throw that 22 out, 'cause that's an issue that's kind of looming out there. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It is. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, I like what you're doing. 25 That's cool. 2-13-06 73 1 MR. BUCHLER: Yeah, it's -- 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I wish we were invited to it 3 sometime. 4 MR. BUCHLER: One of the reasons -- I would like to 5 invite y'all, the members of the Court, to come down and be 6 judges for the contest. You'll eat -- 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can't eat anything? 8 MR. BUCHLER: You'll get some very good barbecue and 9 some very good chili, I'm telling you. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What do you think, Rex? Do 11 you want to go? 12 MR. EMERSON: Absolutely. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I move approval -- 14 MR. BUCHLER: We have -- we have -- every year, 15 we'll have two or three participants that's in the -- the 16 chili cooking contest that's been winners of the Terlingua 17 Championship out in Terlingua. They're there; they actually 18 come to this cook-off. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I move approval of the 20 request by Mr. Buchler for use of Flat Rock Lake Park for 21 their annual Easter weekend, dates to be April 13th through 22 15th, period. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: 13th through 15th? 13 through 15; is 24 that correct? 25 MR. BUCHLER: Yes, sir. 2-13-06 74 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 'Cause Easter Sunday's the 2 16th, and you're finished. You're not there on Easter Sunday. 3 MR. BUCHLER: No, we'll be out. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I second that. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 7 of the agenda item for April 13 through 15. Any question or 8 comment on the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 9 raising your right hand. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 14 MR. BUCHLER: Thank y'all very much. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. Why don't we take 16 about a 15-minute recess. 17 (Recess taken from 10:32 a.m. to 10:50 a.m.) 18 - - - - - - - - - - 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order, if we 20 might. For those of you that have an interest in the mining 21 and related issues, we'll be taking those up after lunch. 22 We're going to try and finish the other portions of the 23 agenda, including the reports from departments that we'd 24 originally scheduled for 2 o'clock, and the approval and 25 information agenda prior to lunch, so that we can devote our 2-13-06 75 1 time after lunch to those items. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Judge, do the departments 3 know we're moving them up? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I have notified -- I've left messages 5 with all of them. I see at least one of them here. I talked 6 with another one a little bit ago. Two others, I left 7 messages with that I hope to start with them at some time a 8 little bit after 11:00. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Good. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: So that's why Ms. Harris is here. 11 But right now, let's go to Item Number 27, if we might. It 12 would appear to be the next item. Consider, discuss, and take 13 appropriate action to accept sub-award under Homeland Security 14 Grant Program, authorize County Judge to sign acceptance and 15 other documents in connection with that sub-award. I'm sure 16 you've noticed the Homeland Security award out of the 17 Governor's Office of Emergency Management is considerably down 18 this year; in this particular instance, 550 bucks, roughly. 19 But we've got to do all this paperwork in order to get those 20 funds. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I move that we accept 22 the sub-award under the Homeland Security grant program, and 23 authorize the County Judge to sign the acceptance. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 2-13-06 76 1 of the agenda item as indicated. Any question or discussion? 2 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 3 hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's move 8 to Item 28, if we might. Consider, discuss, and take 9 appropriate action to accept the Indigent Defense Grant award 10 and authorize the County Judge to sign same. Very similar 11 type situation. The good news is, the money's a little bit 12 greater, about a little over 29,000, based on the form of the 13 grant as awarded out of the Task Force on Indigent Defense. 14 Bad news is, it's not going to come close to covering our 15 total indigent defense cost. But -- 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Any idea of what that is, 17 Judge? What the cost will be, total cost? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't have my budget with me, and 19 it's contained in at least three different budgets to be 20 totaled up, but my recollection is somewhere in the 21 neighborhood of $300,000. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This does not include -- 23 that 300, Judge, that doesn't include that most recent mandate 24 that we take care of indigents who are involved in child 25 protective cases? 2-13-06 77 1 JUDGE TINLEY: No. No, it does not include that. 2 The C.P.S. cases where parents whose rights are going to be 3 affected by the -- just the removal, albeit even temporary, of 4 a child from the home, and the requirement that a lawyer be 5 appointed to represent the interests of those parents who are 6 indigent, no, it does not include that. That's a whole 7 separate -- a whole separate item that came down the pike this 8 year. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. Move acceptance. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Are these funds collected 11 by court costs or fees? Where's the money come from? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm sure there's a combination of 13 sources and economics, Commissioner. I'm -- I don't have the 14 exact information for you. I know it's a combination of 15 sources. Some of it's federal, and I'm sure some of it's 16 state. It's administered through the task force that's 17 presided over by the Court of Criminal Appeals' presiding 18 judge. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You mean these grants, or the 20 rest of it? 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Grants come from the state. 22 Where do they get the money? Is that general funds? Court 23 fees? Or -- 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's probably federal money 25 that's just flowing through, I would think. 2-13-06 78 1 JUDGE TINLEY: A lot of it. A lot of those grants 2 are. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Like a block grant type 4 thing. But -- 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that's correct. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I do notice that we have to 7 -- if we're going to get this money, we'll have to submit an 8 expenditure report by May 1, so somebody needs to stay on top 9 of that and make sure it doesn't fall between the cracks. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: The Auditor's office has -- has 11 handled that, and we've always handled it in a timely manner, 12 at least insofar as I'm aware. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second to 15 approve the agenda item to accept the Indigent Defense grant 16 award and authorize the Judge to sign same. Any question or 17 discussion? All in favor, signify by raising your right hand. 18 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. The next 22 item, Number 29, is to consider, discuss, and approve the 23 submittal of an AACOG grant application for equipment for the 24 Environmental Health Department. Is Mr. Arreola here? 25 MR. NORTH: He had to be out of town today, Your 2-13-06 79 1 Honor. Tish is supposed to be here to make the presentation. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Pardon? 3 MR. NORTH: Tish is supposed to be here to ask to 4 apply for that, because we're just asking for permission to 5 apply for the grant. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is this Solid Waste -- for 7 Solid Waste only, or -- 8 MR. NORTH: No, it's for Environmental Health. 9 Environmental Health Department, the grant. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For what purpose? 11 MR. NORTH: Sir? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Solid Waste, or for other 13 environmental -- 14 MR. NORTH: Mostly for Solid Waste. I believe some 15 surveillance equipment. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That's my recollection. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Sergeant, this would be 18 surveillance equipment? 19 MR. NORTH: Yes, sir, I believe. That's my 20 understanding. Miguel's handling the grant. I'm really a 21 little fish in a big pond here. I'm not real familiar with 22 what he's doing. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah, but you've got a lot 24 of law enforcement experience. Is this an effective way to go 25 about enforcing the law? 2-13-06 80 1 MR. NORTH: There are some places in the county we 2 just can't cover as much as we'd like to. For instance, 3 Madrona Road, up in there, that's a real bad site. We'd like 4 to set up some kind of surveillance on that, at least get some 5 tag numbers. And with the equipment we have now, it's just 6 not working. Something wrong with it; it's not doing the job. 7 Not getting the job done. And this money's available for us, 8 so we thought we'd try to apply for one. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't have any problem 10 with it. I'll move approval of it. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll second it. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 13 of the agenda item, to approve the submittal of an AACOG grant 14 application for equipment for the Environmental Health 15 Department. Any question or discussion? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think -- I think, as far as 17 Commissioner 4 is probably concerned, we're not going to spend 18 a lot of money and have three or four of you guys lay out in 19 the brush for three or four days waiting for somebody to throw 20 a beer can out on the side of the road. 21 MR. NORTH: That doesn't happen. No, that's not it. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: I think -- I think Mr. North can 24 verify that's not going to happen. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's not going to happen, 2-13-06 81 1 or at least not him. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Just the general idea of 3 surveillance of citizens bothers me. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, me too. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, we had some equipment, 6 as you may recall. For reasons I don't know, it never 7 functioned properly. We got it through an AACOG grant. 8 MR. NORTH: We still have that; it's just not 9 working properly, Commissioner. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or discussion? 11 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 12 hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's move to 17 Item 30, consideration and possible action to authorize the 18 County to finance the acquisition of computer hardware and 19 software from The Software Group, a division of Tyler 20 Technologies, Incorporated, by either entering into a 21 financing lease with Bank of America Leasing and Capital, 22 L.L.C., or issuing maintenance tax notes to be purchased by 23 Frost Bank or another financial institution, and to approve 24 and authorize the execution of all documents related to either 25 financing. I can give you a little bit narrower description. 2-13-06 82 1 The financial adviser to the County, Mr. Bob Henderson, and 2 his staff have negotiated what they think is the best deal. 3 This involves the -- the computer upgrades, software and 4 hardware, that were approved by the Court to go into this 5 budget year, begin installation this budget year. And the 6 best deal they've negotiated is through Bank of America under 7 a lease arrangement. The interest factor on the equipment, 8 the amount is $1,030,000 with an interest rate of 9 4.015 percent. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What was that again? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: 4.015 percent, and that's based on a 12 five-year -- five-year payout. We have been furnished formats 13 of documents that are required by Bank of America typically in 14 connection with these types of transactions, albeit we do not 15 have the specific documents that are -- that would be called 16 upon for us to approve and execute. But the format of the 17 documents for the type of transaction that Bank of America 18 requires in these situations, we got belatedly this morning. 19 And I think -- I think everybody was provided with a copy of 20 those just shortly before the meeting. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Judge, this is a proposal 22 that's either/or? Financing lease or maintenance tax notes? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: At the time the agenda item was 24 prepared and posted, we didn't know which way it was going to 25 go, and the two apparent finalists were Bank of America and 2-13-06 83 1 Frost Bank, Bank of America on a lease transaction, Frost Bank 2 in another type of transaction. And since the posting 3 occurred, the best deal that our financial adviser's been able 4 to cut for us was with the Bank of America transaction, which 5 is the one I indicated to you. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: How are tax notes different 7 than certificates of obligation? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't think there's any essential 9 difference. You're -- they -- they're tantamount to being 10 general obligations. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Isn't that the difference? 12 A tax anticipation note is one that -- where you might have to 13 increase the taxes that are -- or anticipate the taxes to pay 14 it. The other is a certificate of obligation; the funds are 15 already there. Isn't that kind of how it boils down? Revenue 16 you already have? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: I -- I don't have a clear answer to 18 that. It -- they're essentially both general obligations of 19 the County. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Certificates of obligation 21 are a lot easier to do than -- than bonds or some other sorts. 22 Is there a limit on the amount of money you could raise under 23 a certificate or payback period or -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: My -- my understanding -- what you're 25 speaking of are -- are bonded indebtedness and certificate of 2-13-06 84 1 obligations, I think. Bonded indebtedness is -- is a matter 2 that's submitted to the voters. Certificates of obligation 3 are typically not submitted to the voters, but there's a 4 provision in the law that in the event the C.O.'s exceed a 5 certain amount, the -- the voters can petition for a 6 referendum on certificates of obligation. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's helpful. Thank you. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, when would the 10 amortization begin on this? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: They would actually begin in the next 12 coming budget year. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: And we had anticipated that when we 15 were talking about it during our last budget year and 16 authorizing the computer upgrade. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I thought so. I just wanted 18 to hear you say it again. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, the -- the documents 21 from the lawyer arriving minutes before the Commissioners 22 Court meeting is nothing new. That's a pretty regular 23 business for them, and there is no way that I would -- I mean, 24 there's no way I can approve doing this thing just going on 25 the -- look -- looking at the cover sheet here. So, I guess 2-13-06 85 1 we can approve it contingent on the County Attorney going 2 through this document and making sure that everything is in 3 line. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: That's actually the actual documents 5 submitted in connection with our transaction, I would think. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Excuse me? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: The actual documents relative to our 8 transaction, rather than the -- just the general format 9 documents. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Correct. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just whatever that -- that we 13 have to deal with. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And -- and based on his 16 approval, then -- then the agenda item is approved. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I agree with the 18 Commissioner, and -- but I want to ask a question, because 19 part of this is -- is typical boilerplate, right? And the 20 front three or four pages is the certificate for order, which 21 effectively is the Court's resolution authorizing this. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are we -- are we -- has the 24 County Attorney reviewed that? Are we okay on this? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: The County Attorney has not reviewed 2-13-06 86 1 the documents before you. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He got it the same time we 3 did. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, he just got them early this 5 morning, shortly before the meeting, like we did. I don't 6 think he had any prior -- prior look. 7 MR. EMERSON: That's correct. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: The other option, of course, would be 9 to put it on the -- on the next court agenda and have the 10 documents before us. County Attorney would have had an 11 opportunity to review them then, and -- and -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I like that a lot better. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, that might be better. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree. I like that 16 better, too. 'Cause we're not under any real time constraint 17 here, are we? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: None that I'm aware of, and nothing 19 indicated by the lawyers. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, okay. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I think part of the difficulty was 22 that we -- we -- apparently, the deal on the -- on the lease 23 financing with Bank of America only was nailed down late 24 Friday, so that's what would cause the delay in getting the 25 type of format documents. So, we can defer that until the 2-13-06 87 1 next -- okay. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I see Ms. Hulett just 3 came in. Can we just get a minute's explanation from her as 4 to exactly what it is the AACOG grant is all about? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Surely. Ms. Hulett? 6 MS. HULETT: Yes? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: The -- Item 29; consider, discuss, 8 and approve the submittal of an AACOG grant application for 9 equipment for the Environmental Health Department. 10 MS. HULETT: Yes, sir? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: The question that the -- some of the 12 members of the Court had is, what is the purpose of this 13 equipment? Solid Waste? O.S.S.F.? What's the basic purpose 14 of the grant and the type of equipment? 15 MS. HULETT: It is for Solid Waste, for surveillance 16 purposes. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're just asking for a 19 specific amount. Do we know exactly what we want to purchase 20 or what? 21 MS. HULETT: Yes, and all that will be in the grant. 22 I believe y'all have a copy of that? I'm not sure. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You got it separately a few 24 days ago. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. It's not in the 2-13-06 88 1 packet, but we got it. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right. 3 MS. HULETT: Okay. And it is detailed in the 4 proposal. That was -- will be submitted with the application 5 for the actual surveillance equipment. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, thank you. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions for Ms. Hulett? 8 Thank you, ma'am. Appreciate you being here. 9 MS. HULETT: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, what happened to Item 11 1.14? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 11 o'clock item. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just waiting for him? He's 14 still on? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't see him. I don't see him 16 yet. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move, if we might, to our 19 reports from the departments that were originally scheduled 20 for 2 o'clock. Ms. Roman, Animal Control. 21 MS. ROMAN: Good morning. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning. 23 MS. ROMAN: I just basically want to report on the 24 expansion. Everything's going as planned. The forms are up 25 for the kennels and everything's on schedule, on time. It -- 2-13-06 89 1 according to the gentleman that donated the funds for -- for 2 the facility, the grand opening should be in mid-April, so 3 everything's pretty much on track. And everything in the 4 facility is going well. Some of the -- the problems that we 5 had in Center Point have all been solved, and everything's 6 going well. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You get that bad dog eating 8 that man's sheep? 9 MS. ROMAN: Pardon me? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Did you catch that bad dog 11 that was eating that man's sheep? 12 MS. ROMAN: No -- yes. Yes, that dog was picked up. 13 So -- 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How many new runs are being 15 built? 16 MS. ROMAN: We have a total of 24. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: New? 18 MS. ROMAN: Yes, 24 new runs. And everything's 19 pretty much on schedule and on track. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Any questions for Ms. Roman? 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Janie, I need to visit with 22 you for about 15, 20 minutes sometime today. 23 MS. ROMAN: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Is lunchtime a good time? 25 MS. ROMAN: That's fine. 2-13-06 90 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We'll probably quit here 2 around noon, so if you could be here. 3 MS. ROMAN: Sure, that's fine. I can be here. 4 Y'all have any questions? 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't. It's a good 6 facility. It's -- it's well designed. 7 MS. ROMAN: It's very well designed. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Easy to maintain and 9 everything about it is good, so we're very fortunate to have 10 it. 11 MS. ROMAN: We're very excited. Very excited. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Our benefactor, I understand, has, in 13 the interim, agreed to underwrite some additional things that 14 weren't in the original plan, too. Is that not correct? 15 MS. ROMAN: Yes, we're going to have -- he's going 16 to add a sidewalk all the way around, and there will be a 17 chain link fence with barbed wire on top all the way around 18 the new area. And the reason that he's putting -- that he's 19 adding that sidewalk around the perimeter of it is so that we 20 -- we will have room for expansion in the future, and we can 21 use that walk between the -- the buildings. So, that was -- 22 that was great, that he's willing to do that. So -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 24 MS. ROMAN: Any other questions? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 2-13-06 91 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Janie. 3 MS. ROMAN: Thank you. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And the other comment is 5 we'll have some data together for you about our activity 6 fairly soon. 7 MS. ROMAN: Yes. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And the good news is, it's 9 going to show that euthanasias are down. And you have to sort 10 of speculate as to what causes that, but hopefully the cause 11 is education; that people are taking better care of their pets 12 and spaying and neutering and that sort of thing. So, that's 13 a win-win. We don't -- we don't like to have to put those 14 animals down, and -- and our constituents don't like to hear 15 about it. 16 MS. ROMAN: Well, and like I've said, we're working 17 a lot closer with some of these other organizations, like the 18 Humane Society, different breed rescues and such, so our 19 euthanasias are definitely down. Our adoption rate is a lot 20 higher, and so are our reclaims, so we're obviously doing -- 21 doing something right. And we're working on a few other 22 changes, and we'll get back with you on -- on that. Okay? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 24 MS. ROMAN: Thank you. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me move back to Item 14, if I 2-13-06 92 1 might, which was an 11 o'clock timed item. Mr. Larry 2 Boccaccio is with us here today. He's from Texas Association 3 of Counties, and Mr. Boccaccio was very helpful to us in -- in 4 our safety program and our -- our insurance filings and a 5 number of other related areas. And Mr. Boccaccio indicated to 6 me here a week or so ago that, by virtue of our safety 7 program, that he had an award that he wanted to present to us 8 from Texas Association of Counties, so I'll turn it over to 9 you, Mr. Boccaccio. 10 MR. BOCCACCIO: Thank you, Judge. Good morning, 11 all. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Morning. 13 MR. BOCCACCIO: For those of you that don't know me, 14 my name is Larry Boccaccio. I'm one of four safety field reps 15 that Texas Association of Counties has, and my territory is 16 basically west Texas and southwest Texas, so I kind of slowed 17 down in the road today as I'm heading west. So, I did want to 18 bring this safety award. It was actually earned in 2004, and 19 presented last year at the County Management Institute 2005 in 20 Austin. What -- what we did, and the Judge was instrumental 21 in this, was getting the -- the then Texas Workers 22 Compensation Commission kind of off our backs. There had been 23 several injuries, and at that point in time, the State kind of 24 stepped in and said, "You need to do this, you need to do 25 that." So, we got things rolling. We got a safety committee. 2-13-06 93 1 The education was -- was wonderful, from not only Road and 2 Bridge, but the courthouse as well. It's something that has 3 definitely helped your worker's comp premium, and anytime that 4 you can save money off of that, it just goes to all the other 5 issues that you've got funding things with. So, I brought it 6 along, and it's -- it says basically, "County Safety Award 7 presented to Kerr County in recognition of its ongoing record 8 of safety in the workplace, 2004, Texas Association of 9 Counties, Worker's Compensation Self-Insurance Fund." 10 (Applause.) 11 MR. BOCCACCIO: Very good. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is there -- any cash come 13 along with that? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: $18,000 credit against our worker's 15 comp premium. 16 MR. BOCCACCIO: That's true. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good. 18 MR. BOCCACCIO: I forgot to mention that that -- at 19 that point in time, that was 10 percent of your worker's comp 20 premium for that year. So -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Super. 22 MR. BOCCACCIO: So -- yeah. And it's -- I tell you 23 what, it's paying dividends to this day. And I missed Cindy 24 Nix for helping with it, but it's still going on. We've got a 25 few things to massage and tweak a little bit, but we'll keep 2-13-06 94 1 it going. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's for the year '04? 3 MR. BOCCACCIO: '04. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Have you done any -- have 5 you done a review of Kerr County for '05? 6 MR. BOCCACCIO: You know, I haven't done that yet. 7 Our County Management Institute, that is in May of this year, 8 first week of May, and I'm going to be looking at figures 9 probably early March, 'cause I'm the one that's actually -- 10 I've been dedicated to the safety -- as the safety person this 11 year responsible to, you know, get all the data together and 12 get it to the folks down in education for publishing. But 13 I'll be glad to share that data with you as soon as I sit down 14 and actually look at it, 'cause this is -- we've -- we 15 switched third-party administrators. J.I. Systems came in 16 last year, and up until about two months ago, the two computer 17 systems didn't like each other. I mean, they -- they had 18 their data; we had our data. And I'm not a computer guru, by 19 any means, but the bottom line is they wouldn't talk to each 20 other. So, now we're able to get live data that -- that 21 J.I.'s inputting on a daily basis, and -- and it helps the 22 safety reps and you folks as to what's going on with claims 23 and losses and things like that. So, it's -- it's going to 24 only get better from here on out. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Super. 2-13-06 95 1 MR. BOCCACCIO: And I don't know -- did y'all want 2 to do a photo shoot or anything? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: We haven't got a camera. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't think there's -- a 5 camera's not in the building. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A member of the press is 7 here without a camera? 8 MS. ARNOLD: Being used elsewhere. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They're on a budget. 10 MR. BOCCACCIO: Okay. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Boccaccio, we appreciate you 12 being here today. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thank you. 14 MR. BOCCACCIO: You're more than welcome. I'll let 15 y'all pass that around. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: The -- the number of on-the-job 17 injuries and the -- the amount of worker's comp awards and -- 18 and payout requirements have significantly reduced since we 19 started this program. 20 MR. BOCCACCIO: I bet it has. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: It's an ongoing savings to us, 22 because, as we all know, worker's comp is essentially a 23 retroactive charge, and, you know, it's a "pay me now or pay 24 me later" situation, but you end up paying. So, everything we 25 can do to improve safety with our employees is -- is going to 2-13-06 96 1 be of benefit to them and to us, so it's a win-win deal. 2 MR. BOCCACCIO: That's true. Thank you, Judge. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: We thank you for being here. 4 MR. BOCCACCIO: Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Larry. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go back, if we might, to the 7 report from department heads. I gave a note to the Extension 8 Office. Surely they've received it by now. I put it on their 9 voicemail. Juvenile Detention. Ms. Harris, I note that 10 you're here. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Did you catch your rabbit? 12 MS. HARRIS: Yes, sir. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Good. 14 MS. HARRIS: He has been snared, yes. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: A fine young man, I might add, 16 too. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You know him well, huh? 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Oh, we do now. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where was the rabbit? 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: In Ingram. 21 MS. HARRIS: Good morning, by the way. I'll go over 22 the report that I sent y'all the other day. Average 23 population for January was 32, and that's 25 post and 7 pre's. 24 We had seven discharges. Those discharges, five of them were 25 successful graduations, completions of the program. There was 2-13-06 97 1 one administrative release on one juvenile. There was a -- a 2 death in his immediate family, and his probation officer let 3 him go home. And the other one was an unsuccessful discharge. 4 Intakes, we had one intake in January. And I think, if you 5 recall, we had talked about this numerous times, that you 6 normally see a decrease in referrals and placements towards 7 the end of January -- end of December, January, and sometimes 8 it bleeds into February. Sometimes it does, sometimes it 9 doesn't. Pending intakes, we had three El Paso, one 10 Guadalupe, one in Kerr County, and we have all three of those 11 now. They've all come in. We have all three of those intakes 12 now. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: These are long-term? 14 MS. HARRIS: Yes, these are long-term. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 16 MS. HARRIS: These are long-term post kids. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So that puts your population 18 at 35? 19 MS. HARRIS: No, sir. When I made this report, we 20 had not gotten those three intakes. We now have those three 21 intakes for the month of February. When I do my February 22 report, then they will show up on my February report. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's kind of what I'm 24 asking. 25 MS. HARRIS: No, I'm sorry. 2-13-06 98 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Your census today is 35? 2 MS. HARRIS: My census today is 31. My census today 3 is 31, because of the pre's coming and going. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Got you. 5 MS. HARRIS: Okay. Our revenue for January is 6 $92,436, which is a decrease of $24,144 for December. 7 Expenditures was $142,615.94, which is a decrease of 8 $10,160.67. We have reduced our comp time another 368.8 9 hours, so to-date, we have decreased that comp time right at 10 1,000 hours since December the 10th. So, the people -- staff 11 are taking -- taking their comp time, so we can get that comp 12 time reduced. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Based upon the rate at which that 14 comp time is being reduced, you should easily have that rolled 15 off by June 30? 16 MS. HARRIS: Yes, sir. Yes, sir. I just discussed 17 the first paragraph in the report as to reasons for what I 18 think -- reasons for our drop in referrals. The Austin News -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Before you go there, let's -- 20 MS. HARRIS: Sure. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- let's go back. I've got a 22 couple questions about your first paragraph here. 23 MS. HARRIS: Sure. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You talk about the reasons 25 for the drop in referrals and the conference in Austin and all 2-13-06 99 1 those things, but that last part -- 2 MS. HARRIS: Mm-hmm. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- I'm going to read your 4 last sentence -- or last two sentences. 5 MS. HARRIS: Sure. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: "Another factor that is 7 impacting the referrals at the facility is the political 8 rhetoric circulating the county. Rumors and gossip reach 9 counties that contract with the facility and, once again, 10 counties call the facility inquiring upon the stability of the 11 facility." I don't -- I wouldn't -- would be hesitant putting 12 a sentence like that in my report. But rumors and gossip, I'd 13 have to share with you that I heard a rumor and some gossip 14 the other day. A lady told me on the street that -- and I 15 know this is not true, but I wanted to pass it along to you -- 16 that we had a juvenile actually escape from our facility. And 17 I know that if that were true, that I would be -- as a 18 Commissioner, I would be notified that we had actually had an 19 escape, that citizens that I represent possibly could be -- 20 lives and property be put in danger. That if we had an 21 escape, much like we did in the adult facility almost a couple 22 of years ago, the Sheriff immediately called me and let me 23 know. But -- so I know that that's not true, and I know 24 that's a rumor and a gossip floating around that -- that we 25 had an escape, 'cause I hadn't been notified by anybody about 2-13-06 100 1 that. And I just -- I know rumors and gossip do float around, 2 and I just experienced it with that -- with that one issue. 3 But could you tell me what rumors and gossip -- gossip you're 4 referring to here? 5 MS. HARRIS: Remarks being made that the facility 6 would be possibly closed depending on who gets elected and who 7 doesn't get elected. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, there's always a 9 possibility of the facility closing. I mean, you disagree 10 with that? 11 MS. HARRIS: I disagree with how the comments are 12 being made. And I don't hold much store into gossip and rumor 13 either, just like you don't hold much score into gossip or 14 rumor either. So -- but what I'm saying in that sentence is 15 that gossip and rumors, whether they be true or not, which 16 gossip and rumors normally are not, do affect the facility, 17 'cause we do get phone calls asking us if this gossip or this 18 rumor is true. That's what I meant by that comment, which I 19 think is pretty clear. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, it is very clear, and 21 you've used this several times through the last couple of 22 years. 23 MS. HARRIS: I haven't been here two years. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The -- well, clarify for me 25 right quick. We did -- of course, we did not have an escaped 2-13-06 101 1 juvenile, did we? 2 MS. HARRIS: I don't know. That's gossip and rumor, 3 isn't it? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did we, Judge? 5 MS. HARRIS: My liaisons were informed. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We did, didn't we? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure we did. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 9 MS. HARRIS: My liaisons were informed the day that 10 it happened. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I'm glad they were. I 12 wasn't. That's all. Thank you -- 13 MS. HARRIS: You're welcome. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- for your explanation. 15 MS. HARRIS: You're welcome. The Austin News, I did 16 not attend that conference, as I was working on the policies 17 and procedures. Mr. Wilbanks came back and gave this report 18 to me. And the announcement that Vicki Spriggs, the Executive 19 Director of T.Y.C., made in regards to the mental health 20 standards, they've been working on revisions of the T.J.P.C. 21 standards since this summer, and one -- some of the standards 22 is in regards to mental health care. And it seems to be that 23 they're building the climate that juvenile probation 24 departments and facilities would be required to provide more 25 extensive mental health services for kids. She did make a 2-13-06 102 1 statement that they were not going to implement the mental 2 health standards until she could possibly get some funding 3 from the Legislature to trickle down through the probation 4 departments and to the facilities to fund this, 'cause this -- 5 that's quite an expensive venture. One of the proposed 6 standard changes is requiring a ratio. A mental health 7 professional would be allowed to take care of just so many 8 kids. There would be a ratio; it's clinician-to-resident 9 ratio. I'm not clear on this standard, if that's strictly 10 going to be for facilities, or if that's also going to be 11 required for probation departments. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would be the 13 Legislature meeting in its biennium? 14 MS. HARRIS: Yes, sir. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or in special session? 16 MS. HARRIS: In the biennium, because it's indicated 17 on the document that was given at that conference that the new 18 standards would not go into effect until September of '09, is 19 when the new standards would go into effect. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's not something to be 21 concerned about immediately? 22 MS. HARRIS: No, sir. No, sir. I'm just wanting to 23 give y'all some factual information that this is being 24 discussed at this point in time. I got word the other day 25 that the Colorado County -- which is that Eagle Pass -- the 2-13-06 103 1 Colorado County facility is closing. I don't know if you 2 remember, there was a private company that was operating that. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: You said Eagle Pass? 4 MS. HARRIS: Not Eagle Pass. Eagle Lake, excuse me. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 6 MS. HARRIS: Eagle Lake, sorry. There was a private 7 company that was running that facility for quite some time. 8 They discontinued their contract -- oh, I think it's been 9 about a little over a year. And I don't know what 10 precipitated that closure, why it -- why it was decided to 11 close this. I just got word that they were closing. We've 12 had a couple of counties that's called us, and inquiring about 13 placement. Some -- one of the counties that called was 14 wanting to place females, and then another county was wanting 15 to acquire our contract, 'cause they had not contracted with 16 us before, with possible placements, because they normally 17 sent kids to Colorado County. So, let's see. Oh, and the 18 facility in Canadian has closed, but it was a preadjudication, 19 and I -- we would not foresee any -- any placements, because 20 it is preadjudication. It's too far for them to send pre 21 kids. 22 Tarrant County, I got a phone call from Tarrant 23 County, and they have expressed interest in placing kids at 24 the facility once again. They used to some years ago. They 25 haven't in a while, and they have a new chief. A new chief 2-13-06 104 1 was put into place a few months ago, so they're looking to -- 2 to place kids at the facility again. And our NSLP, we had our 3 regional Auditor; he did find some record -- recordkeeping 4 noncompliances. Certain forms were just -- were not being 5 filled out properly, so we have rectified that. Plan of 6 action has been written and submitted to this auditor, and it 7 has been approved. The plan of action has been approved, and 8 these forms that were not properly filled in are now being 9 properly done. We have rectified that. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Ms. Harris, you and I had an 11 exchange of e-mails -- 12 MS. HARRIS: Mm-hmm. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- just within the last week 14 or so -- 15 MS. HARRIS: Yes, sir. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- relative to a couple 17 issues, one of which was the breakout that Commissioner 18 Baldwin didn't know anything about, and the other is -- has to 19 do with the expense load and the revenue stream -- 20 MS. HARRIS: Mm-hmm. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- of the facility. 22 MS. HARRIS: Mm-hmm. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And in that exchange of 24 e-mails, I asked you if the breakout showed that we had 25 facility or security issues. 2-13-06 105 1 MS. HARRIS: Mm-hmm. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, I'll ask you that same 3 question in public. 4 MS. HARRIS: Okay. I don't believe that we have a 5 staffing/security issue, because this escape was not the fault 6 of a -- of anyone. The staff was doing exactly what he was 7 supposed to be doing. This was just one of those unfortunate 8 incidents where this kid was at the end of the line going into 9 the building, turns around and climbs over the fence, gets up 10 on top of that fence before anybody can do anything. So, as 11 far as the staffing issue, no, sir. Even the fence itself, it 12 -- that fence does not have barbed wire or razor wire on top. 13 At one time, my understanding was that there was a net that -- 14 they had a net that covered it, and over time, there was holes 15 that were worn through the net. And, too, the weight -- it 16 started to sag, and the weight of the net was pulling the 17 fence inward, so the net was removed. I -- I have not kept up 18 with prices of -- of barbed wire and razor wire. I have no 19 idea what the expenditure would be if you wanted to add that 20 to the top of the fence. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which suggests you did not 22 talk to Mr. Holekamp about it. 23 MS. HARRIS: No, I -- no, sir, I have not visited 24 with him. No, sir, I haven't yet. I will if you would like 25 for me to; I can visit with him to get some kind of an 2-13-06 106 1 estimated cost on what that would cost. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second issue has to do 3 with -- with cash flow. 4 MS. HARRIS: Mm-hmm. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And expenses versus revenue. 6 MS. HARRIS: Right. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And tax -- dedication of a 8 certain portion of our budget. And I just want you to know 9 that I've had a discussion with the Auditor about this. 10 MS. HARRIS: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And I know what we budgeted. 12 We budgeted $288,000 -- 13 MS. HARRIS: Yes, sir. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- as tax revenue to cover 15 the shortfall in revenue based on projections that you had 16 given us at budget time. 17 MS. HARRIS: Yes. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're going to do a 19 six-months review here of our budget coming up in March. 20 MS. HARRIS: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And I certainly hope that 22 we're not in a situation where it's -- 23 MS. HARRIS: I know. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- the shortfall is too 25 great. 2-13-06 107 1 MS. HARRIS: I know. I know. That was what I had 2 indicated to you in the e-mail; I'm concerned as well. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Because, political rhetoric 4 to the contrary, notwithstanding -- 5 MS. HARRIS: Mm-hmm. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- I don't -- I don't see 7 the will of this Court to go beyond a $288,000 commitment this 8 budget year. 9 MS. HARRIS: I know. Whenever -- when we were doing 10 the budget process, you know, we all discussed this, and I -- 11 the Court made itself very clear what the Court was willing to 12 do and not willing to do. We at the facility clearly 13 understand that as well. Everyone at the facility is aware 14 that we're on, you know, an extremely tight budget, and 15 everyone at the facility is aware of that, and everyone at the 16 facility is aware that the population being low as it is right 17 now, the revenues are -- is not as great, and they know the 18 repercussions of that. We're doing everything that we 19 possibly can to get more kids in. We have gotten more phone 20 calls in regarding information in February than we did in 21 January. We didn't get very many phone calls in January, but 22 we -- we're getting a few more phone calls in February. Now, 23 if these phone calls produce, great. If they don't, we'll 24 address that too. But, yes, we -- we are aware of the 25 repercussions of the cash flow not being there, so we 2-13-06 108 1 understand. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 3 MS. HARRIS: And we're working on it very 4 diligently. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else for Ms. Harris? Thank 7 you, ma'am. 8 MS. HARRIS: You're welcome. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Appreciate you being here. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We didn't have any of those 11 other departments? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I left e-mail messages -- or not 13 e-mail, voicemail messages with both the Extension Office and 14 Environmental Health that I was hopeful that we could start 15 these reports shortly after 11:00 this morning. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, no big deal. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mr. Arreola is out of the 18 city. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, and Tish was here a little bit 20 ago. Maybe she didn't take the message off. I don't know. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't think the County will 22 shut down if we don't get these two reports. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: No, we're probably okay. We probably 24 can go ahead and work on our bills and those sorts of things, 25 if we could get the Auditor in here. And -- 2-13-06 109 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can I say something, Judge? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, sir. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: My good friend Nina Kinney 4 is sitting there, and I know why Nina's here. She's not here 5 for the entertainment; she's here to find out about the rock 6 crusher, and we're going to pick that up immediately after 7 lunch. 8 MS. KINNEY: Okay. And what time will that be? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Not sure just yet. It's probably 10 going to be 1:15 -- 11 MS. KINNEY: Okay. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: -- or after. 13 MS. KINNEY: Okay, that will be good. Thank you. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Williams. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're welcome. Nina, 16 you're welcome to stay, if you like. 17 MS. KINNEY: Okay. I have some... 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Talking about some of these bills we 19 got here, okay, let's move, if we could, to -- first off, let 20 me ask if there's any member of the Court that has anything to 21 go into executive or closed session? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not I. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Didn't think so. Let's go to the 24 approval agenda. Payment of the bills, 4.1. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I move we pay the bills. 2-13-06 110 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I second that emotion. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think I have one question. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, good. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All right, sir. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I like these. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I got to find it. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Go ahead. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's on the last page. What 9 is 81, District Administration? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And what -- and after you've 12 told me that, then maybe that will explain the line item 13 H.S.B.C., whatever, whatever. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What page? 15 MS. WILLIAMS: Business Solutions? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: On the very last page, 26. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Next-to-last page. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm sorry. You got 27 19 pages? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That has to do with the 21 district courts. 22 MS. WILLIAMS: It's the districts courts, and it 23 also is where we record and keep track the LEOSE money that 24 the constables, the Sheriff's Department, and the District 25 Attorney get every year, and that moneys is what -- they can 2-13-06 111 1 use it for training, whatever. It is their discretion to use 2 it. It's money that we receive from the State. And the item 3 that Commissioner Williams was asking about is some stacking 4 chairs that the Sheriff's Department purchased out of their 5 LEOSE moneys, and I believe it was for training. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's for all the revamping of 7 that training room so it fits in with AACOG grant stuff. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There is training, too, 9 coming out for the distance learning that's coming up. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes, we're already online. 11 We're waiting for AACOG to get on that. It's all been 12 installed. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I saw you nodding your head; 14 I figured you had something to do with it. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's the chairs and that, 16 instead of the old metal folding chairs, and that's purchased 17 out of that, and it's able to be out that LEOSE account. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I got one question. Page 1, 20 Tetra Tech, preparation of funding application, T.W.D.B. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That was the money approved 22 by the Court for up to 5,000 to assist us in the preparation 23 of the funding application. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Is -- we do have an opportunity to 25 get reimbursed for that out of grant funds from T.W.D.B.? 2-13-06 112 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't know, but I'll 2 certainly ask that question, Judge. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: That was my question. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: I know we approved the funding; I 6 just didn't know whether we could -- 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll ask the question. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: That prompted me to have the other 9 question. Any other questions? All in favor of the motion, 10 signify by raising your right hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Budget 15 amendments. Budget Amendment Request Number 1. 16 MS. WILLIAMS: Okay. This budget amendment, we have 17 a bond payment that is coming up due on February the 15th. It 18 is for the detention facility. We are short $177,000 in the 19 cash account being able to pay -- to pay that bond payment, so 20 what I'm asking the Court to allow us to do is move the money 21 out of general fund. When more tax revenue's received during 22 the year and we build up enough cushion, we'll transfer the 23 money back into the general fund. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A temporary transfer? 25 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 2-13-06 113 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Interim transfer. 2 MS. WILLIAMS: We're anticipating tax revenues to be 3 received; we just don't have enough at this point in time in 4 order to make this payment. And since it is a separate bank 5 account, we have to have the money there before we do the wire 6 transfer. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We're making ourselves a 8 temporary loan? 9 MS. WILLIAMS: Basically. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Out of the general fund? 11 MS. WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: By declaring an emergency? 13 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: This doesn't have anything 15 to do with the budgeted cost for these certificates of 16 obligation? 17 MS. WILLIAMS: No, sir. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: They're fixed. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, you need a motion that 20 embodies a declaration of emergency to do this; is that 21 correct? 22 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. Because, basically, we 23 have to have the money to make the bond payment, and I would 24 consider it an emergency, taking it out of surplus in the 25 general fund. 2-13-06 114 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would move that we declare 2 an emergency and authorize an interim and/or temporary 3 transfer of sufficient funds, $177,000, to make the bond 4 payment which is due on February 15, '06, and that when the 5 tax revenues have arrived, that that be replaced in the 6 general fund. 7 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 10 of Budget Amendment Request Number 1 as indicated in the 11 motion. Any question or comment? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Question. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, sir? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How did this happen? How did 15 we -- how did we miss February 15th, 2006, in our payment 16 scheme? 17 MS. WILLIAMS: I don't understand your question. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well -- 19 MS. WILLIAMS: We -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why don't we have this 21 budget -- money budgeted, is my question. 22 MS. WILLIAMS: We budgeted tax revenues. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Were we planning on declaring 24 an emergency and -- 25 MS. WILLIAMS: No. 2-13-06 115 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- going into the reserves, 2 the County's reserves? 3 MS. WILLIAMS: Not that I know of. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. How did this come 5 about? 6 MS. WILLIAMS: Basically, because -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And you can't blame it on the 8 -- blame it on the politicians walking around talking. 9 MS. WILLIAMS: No comment. We have not collected 10 enough tax revenues in this new budget year in order to make 11 up the payment that's due. There wasn't enough at the end of 12 September in the cash account to cover it. A lot of people 13 have not paid their taxes until probably the 31st of January. 14 They hold off to the very last minute. We haven't received 15 those revenues from the Tax Assessor yet. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. That's a -- I was 17 going to say, does that mean "yet" or "ever"? 18 MS. WILLIAMS: No, yet. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yet, okay. There's a 20 difference. 21 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, big difference. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, by the bad luck of the 23 draw, February 15th is a bad date for us. 24 MS. WILLIAMS: No, sir. It just happens to be one 25 year from the date that the bonds were -- 2-13-06 116 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's a bad day because we 2 haven't received any money in. 3 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Probably March 15th, the 5 money would probably be there, huh? Okay, April 15th. You're 6 difficult to get along with. 7 MS. WILLIAMS: It's Monday. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, I'm through talking. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments? All 10 in favor of that motion, signify by raising your right hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Budget 15 Amendment Request Number 2. 16 MS. WILLIAMS: You'll like this one also. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, boy. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Same story, just a different subject. 19 It's the radio. 20 MS. WILLIAMS: Same story. It's just that we have a 21 bond payment coming up on the 15th of February for this one 22 also, and at this point in time, we are short approximately 23 $7,500 in the account in order to be able to make the payment, 24 so it will be another one where we're going to declare an 25 emergency and transfer it out of Fund 10. Once the revenues 2-13-06 117 1 -- tax revenues are received, we build up enough of a cushion, 2 we'll transfer it back over to Fund 10. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If we don't do this, the 4 Sheriff has to stop talking; is that correct? 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Sir? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that part of a motion? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't know. I'm going to 8 let somebody else do this one. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I move to approve. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 12 indicated, declare an emergency and approve Budget Amendment 13 Request Number 2. Any question or comment? All in favor of 14 the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Budget 19 Amendment Request Number 3. 20 MS. WILLIAMS: Number 3. I think we just discussed 21 this, maybe at an earlier court meeting. We have come to the 22 point where we need to transfer the $12,000 that we had 23 budgeted under Software Maintenance and Indigent Health Care 24 up to our Third-Party Administration line item. Due to 25 reasons with the VeriClaims contract, we are not able to bring 2-13-06 118 1 the indigent health care processing in-house this budget year. 2 We do have expenses that we need to pay her for claims that 3 have already been taken care of and that we are paying, so I'm 4 asking the Court to allow us to move that $12,000 up there to 5 use that. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move to approve. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 9 of Budget Amendment Request Number 3. Any question or 10 comment? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your 11 right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Budget 16 Amendment Request Number 4. 17 MS. WILLIAMS: The 198th District Judge's computer 18 died, and we need to move moneys out of Special Trials line 19 item -- looks like we haven't used any of that at the present 20 time -- up to the Operating Equipment line item in order to do 21 that, so that we can get our I.T. guy to order him a 22 replacement computer and monitor. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That was going to be my 24 question. Certain -- I'm certainly in favor. I move we 25 approve this. 2-13-06 119 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 3 of Budget Amendment Request Number 4. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The -- the district -- this 5 particular district judge and our I.T. guy have had a little 6 spat not too long ago, and I'm wondering, are we kissing and 7 making up and just -- our I.T. guy up there going to reinstall 8 this computer, and -- 9 MS. WILLIAMS: Oh, I imagine he'll install it. He's 10 the one who got the information and passed it on to Judge 11 Prohl through Becky Henderson. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Okay. So, we are -- 13 MS. WILLIAMS: Talking again? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not kissing and making up, 15 but maybe we're holding hands and skipping at this point. 16 MS. WILLIAMS: So -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We should be. I don't like 18 to see that kind of stuff, that anger deal. I never get 19 angry. Did I -- did I tell you that I'd like to make a 20 motion? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: You did. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I love this country. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or comments? 24 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 25 hand. 2-13-06 120 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Do we want 5 to talk about -- 6 MS. WILLIAMS: Sir? Excuse me, Judge. I do have 7 three additional budget amendments that I had to do late 8 Friday afternoon. I will -- if you'll hand one to Cheryl, 9 too, please? And there's also one for you, Kathy. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: You want to talk about the EMS 11 contract with the City of Kerrville while we pass these out? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes. 13 MS. WILLIAMS: You got my letter? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: We read our mail, yes. 15 MS. WILLIAMS: Basically, I think we, being our 16 office and the Treasurer's office, did not realize that the 17 amount that was budgeted in that line item was supposed to be 18 split 12 ways and paid out every month. The Treasurer's just 19 been paying what the old contract amount was. I got a call 20 from Sandra Yarbrough at the City the other day, wanting to 21 know what was going on, and I told her that I would try to 22 find out from the Court what the intentions were supposed to 23 be. I've already heard from Commissioner Williams and 24 Commissioner Letz as to -- go ahead and let's get caught up 25 what we still owe them and get on track paying them what we're 2-13-06 121 1 supposed to be paying them. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, it's pretty clear. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: What says the EMS liaison? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, absolutely. I mean, I 5 don't know how we -- 6 MS. WILLIAMS: I think it was just an over -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- can go by last year's 8 numbers. 9 MS. WILLIAMS: I think it was just an oversight. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The budget went from 23,000 11 to 200,000, so that's kind of hard for me to overlook. But, 12 absolutely, I think we need to pay up. 13 MS. WILLIAMS: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And get in the groove. We 15 don't need a motion to do that. I mean, just do it. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: We budgeted it and it's in the 17 budget, so I don't -- I just wanted to bring the issue here. 18 I want -- I think she was looking for direction, and I -- 19 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes. I just wanted to make sure that 20 there wasn't something unusual out there, that maybe they were 21 supposed to come and ask for the largest part of that budget 22 at some other time. So, that was basically the only reason I 23 did the letter. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which begs a question. 25 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir? 2-13-06 122 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is our increment that's 2 being remitted to the City for the library where it needs to 3 be? I thought we had adjusted -- 4 MS. WILLIAMS: We stayed -- I think -- 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: They're still billing us 6 for -- 7 MS. WILLIAMS: 25,000. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- the 300,000 rate instead 9 of $350,000 rate. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's why I asked. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. They're -- 12 MS. WILLIAMS: We're still paying whatever they are 13 billing us for. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We're paying what they bill 15 us, but it's not -- it's not what we budgeted. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That was my question. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We'll pay it, and they'll 18 catch on to it soon. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sooner or later. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Get short of money. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Budget Amendment Request Number 5. 22 MS. WILLIAMS: Okay. This one, we received the 23 renewal on the storage tank pollution liability coverage for 24 Road and Bridge. At this point in time, we're showing enough 25 money in the Insurance line item to be able to make this 2-13-06 123 1 payment. And I spoke with Truby, who spoke with, I believe, 2 Leonard, and they decided we could take the money out of 3 Contingency so that we can set this up next court date, get 4 this paid, and keep the policy in effect. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: This is the Nondepartmental 6 Contingency? 7 MS. WILLIAMS: No, sir, it's Road and Bridge 8 Contingency. They have a line item, yes, sir. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: $827? 10 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 14 of Budget Amendment Request Number 5. Any question or 15 comment? All in favor, signify by raising your right hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. You got 20 another one? 21 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir, I've got this one and then 22 one more after this. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Budget Amendment Request Number 6. 24 MS. WILLIAMS: The -- the Sheriff had called me the 25 other day and said that we needed to find roughly $25,000 to 2-13-06 124 1 cover the salary for one task force officer who will be 2 covered by the grant up until the end of March, but April 1 3 through September 30th, he will have to pick up the salary in 4 his budget. Going from the information they gave me, we 5 figured out what his step and grade would be, and then I was 6 able to calculate what dollar amount we would need for the 7 transfer, and what we want to do is take a separate amount out 8 of each of the Sheriff's Group Insurance line item and the 9 jail's Group Insurance line item. There is enough moneys 10 there, because we did budget high on group insurance this 11 year, and move that up to Deputy Salaries line item. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is -- let me see here. 13 Let me read this little footnote down here, "To cover salary 14 for one officer after the grant expires." Now -- so what I'm 15 seeing here is that you're moving $22,866.50 to a person after 16 the grant expires. Now, is this -- is this for the remainder 17 of the year? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or is this an annual salary? 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, that's the remainder of 22 this year. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What is the full salary? 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: This person's -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What is the full salary? 2-13-06 125 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: This person is a lieutenant, 2 and that -- the same lieutenant just like I have. He would be 3 a 25-6, because he's already been an employee for years; he's 4 just been assigned, and his annual salary would be 45,733, 5 which is about a $7,000 deduction in what he's making at the 6 current time as a commander of the task force. So, he's 7 taking about a $7,000 pay cut to continue to be a Kerr County 8 employee. 7,000 a year. So, this is based on half of that, 9 or the remaining of what that 45,000 would be, not the 52 he's 10 currently being paid under that grant. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is part of your new 12 plan to deal with -- 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The narcotic division, yes. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And we have a meeting at 16 2 o'clock today with the private -- the possible private donor 17 on -- on some equipment stuff and that, because that bill, in 18 itself -- and we haven't brought that to the Court, 'cause 19 we're hoping to fund it in a different way, but County 20 vehicles and equipment and that is a little over $200,000 that 21 it's going to take to get us and the City off the ground, 22 'cause all their equipment they had over there is -- most of 23 it is unusable, 'cause over the last several years, the 24 State's been cutting their budget to begin with. So, we'll 25 see where that goes. 2-13-06 126 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, have we done anything? 2 I move for approval. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 5 of Budget Amendment Request Number 6. Any question or 6 comment? All in favor, signify by raising your right hand. 7 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 9 (No response.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There's more? 12 MS. WILLIAMS: One more. One more. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I hear a catfish calling. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I thought it was barbecue on Mondays. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Barbecue. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He only goes if the place is 17 closed. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm on a diet; that's what I 19 do on my diet. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Keeps his weight down. Budget 21 Amendment Request Number 7. 22 MS. WILLIAMS: Okay. On this one, I got a call from 23 Becky Harris -- I believe it was Thursday afternoon, and she 24 stated that they had a couple of bills for food expenses that 25 were going to need to be paid. And when she looked at her 2-13-06 127 1 expenditure report, she noticed that there was only, like, 2 $3,300 left in that line item. These two bills alone totaled 3 up to $6,700, plus some. She wanted me to go through her 4 budget and see if I could find a line item somewhere that we 5 could move moneys out of. Again, we budgeted a little high in 6 the Group Insurance line item, because at the time we weren't 7 sure what the premiums were going to be, so there's ample 8 money to take the $3,388.73 out of the Insurance line item, 9 move it to the Food line item, and at least get these two 10 bills paid, and then we will have to worry about any other 11 bills as they come in. But since I didn't have a total on the 12 H.E.B. bill, which would probably be the only other one at 13 this point in time that I know of, I couldn't -- I can't 14 really request more than what we just need for this present 15 time. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Does this mean that we 17 don't have any more budgeted funds for food for the rest of 18 the year? 19 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir, that's what it means. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: That's what concerns me. How did we 21 end up that low for -- for the food budget? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would be my question. 23 And I was wondering, does this have anything to do with the 16 24 or 18 extra youth that we took in from T.Y.C. over a projected 25 period of time? 2-13-06 128 1 MS. WILLIAMS: I'm not sure. I ran a printout for 2 October through Friday, and just kind of looked at what we've 3 been spending. It looks like our October expenses ran 4 $9,356.26. Our November expenses ran $11,532.62, and our 5 December expenses ran $5,772.87, for a grand total of 6 $26,620.91. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're talking about food 8 only? 9 MS. WILLIAMS: Just food. Food only. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Out of a total budget of 11 $30,000. It's February, and we're broke in that account. 12 That's a little early. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. That thing spiking in 14 November -- 15 MS. WILLIAMS: I'm not sure why that -- 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the -- it would be expenditures 17 in October as a result of that hurricane -- very well could be 18 a possible contributing factor, but it -- 19 MS. WILLIAMS: Could be. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't see that as anywhere close to 21 being all of it. 22 MS. WILLIAMS: No. I'm not real sure. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: It appears that we just had some bad 24 numbers when we initiated the budget, possibly. I don't know. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, covering this one 2-13-06 129 1 doesn't bother me as much as what we're looking at here in the 2 future. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: May do a review sooner than 5 March. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We may not have any money 7 to pay elected officials come September. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would be something, 9 wouldn't it? I move that the transfer be approved as 10 presented. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 13 of Budget Amendment Request Number 7. Any further question or 14 comment? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your 15 right hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: This motion does carry. 20 MS. WILLIAMS: That's it. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Any more budget amendments? 22 MS. WILLIAMS: No, sir. No late bills. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Late bills? 24 MS. WILLIAMS: No, sir. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I've been presented with monthly 2-13-06 130 1 reports -- 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, Mindy. 3 MS. WILLIAMS: Thank you. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: -- from the Sheriff's Department; 5 Justice of the Peace, Precinct 2; Justice of the Peace, 6 Precinct 3; Justice of the Peace, Precinct 4; County Clerk, 7 both general and trust funds; and the District Clerk. Do I 8 hear a motion that these reports be approved as submitted? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Motion that we approve as 11 submitted. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 14 of the reports as submitted. Any question or comment? All in 15 favor, signify by raising your right hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's go to 20 reports from Commissioners. Committee or liaison assignment 21 reports. Anybody? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. I just want to 23 remind you gentlemen that we have our EMS committee group 24 coming in here soon, the end -- the end of next month, so 25 just -- you know, it's time to roll your sleeves up, 'cause 2-13-06 131 1 it's going to be a big one. That's all. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: You got anything, Commissioner 3 Williams? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, sir. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: A couple things, Judge. 6 We've had a project with the Library Advisory Board to do some 7 planning and thinking about the future and provide input to 8 both the City and the County on what our thoughts are on that. 9 We met last week, and that's going very well. Good meetings, 10 good exchange of information. We were able to establish a 11 couple of short-term priorities and a long-term priority, and 12 you'll get a report. And the short-term priorities will be 13 rehabilitation of the current library; windows need sealed, 14 light fixtures need replaced, things that have been neglected 15 need to be done. And then they've done some work on the 16 balcony to make it more usable, and I don't pretend to 17 understand all that, but it would be some -- some remodeling. 18 And then longer-term recommendation would be everything bigger 19 and better; more building, more of everything. We thought a 20 little -- a little bit about what the future of public 21 libraries is, and there's a whole spectrum of thought on that. 22 You know, the -- there's one way of thinking that says that 23 the -- the internet will doom brick-and-mortar libraries. Who 24 knows? Ten, 20 years from now, that could be true. 25 The other -- on the other extreme, it's sort of -- 2-13-06 132 1 well, sort of like 500-some years ago, when the Gutenberg 2 Press was invented and scribes were running around saying, 3 "I'll never -- we'll never get rid of our scrolls; people like 4 these scrolls." There's a lot of tradition and a lot of 5 emotion that's got to do with libraries, and -- and I think 6 probably it would be normal that people be defensive about 7 making major changes in institutions like that. So, I'm 8 telling you all that so that I -- that we have a long-term 9 recommendation. Whether or not it's pointed toward the right 10 target, we don't know. There's no consensus on it. They're 11 working on the -- I think they finished this -- the bylaws of 12 the Library Board, and we'll present those to the two 13 government bodies for receipt or approval, whichever the 14 contract requires; I can't recall right now. 15 Okay. I want to pass out a document. In our 16 budgeting process, we talked about getting together in the 17 off-season and considering organization issues, how we'd get 18 our work done, and -- and to try to determine if there was an 19 opportunity for improvement. Commissioner Letz and I have 20 worked on a survey, and that's what I've given you, and I 21 think the process we envisioned is that the department heads 22 and elected officials would get this survey and respond to our 23 questions, and then we get all that back in and we would 24 assimilate it in a way that is easy to understand, and then 25 that we would -- this body would set aside some time, a 2-13-06 133 1 workshop to go through that information we collected, and try 2 to find opportunities to do things better or more economical 3 or whatever the opportunities were presented. I don't think 4 this has to be anything real formal. I think this could be 5 sent out by the Judge or Commissioner Letz, or just about 6 anybody. It's -- 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This goes out to all county 8 departments, or just those that report to Commissioners Court? 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: All. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Commissioner, have you 11 thought about possibly making a list -- I mean, you're dealing 12 with the Texas Constitution here. The list of things that 13 counties are -- mandated duties? 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think we're trying to 15 take the -- the easy way out on that, Commissioner. We're -- 16 we're expecting that elected officials know better than we do 17 what's mandated, and they -- that question is asked in here. 18 "What are you doing that's mandated by the Constitution, and 19 what are you doing that is not?" And that'll get -- that'll 20 give us some information we need to see about how things might 21 be rearranged or done differently. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, okay. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Any major concerns about 24 this tactic? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't have any. 2-13-06 134 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's all I've got, Judge. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other reports to be received by 3 the Court? We'll be in recess until 1:30, at which time we'll 4 take up Agenda Items 1.22 through 1.26. 5 (Recess taken from 12:08 p.m. to 1:30 p.m.) 6 - - - - - - - - - - 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order. We 8 were in recess until 1:30. It's that time now. We have 9 several more items on the agenda, and they all revolve around 10 one general subject, so unless there's objection from any 11 member of the Court, what I intend to do is to call all five 12 of those items, and I think we can probably more efficiently 13 dispose of them that way, and then just open it from there. 14 Any objection from anybody on the Court? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, sir. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Item 22, consider and discuss Kerr 18 County's authority under Texas Constitution and various laws 19 for regulating and placing restrictions on mining, rock 20 crushing and related operations, particularly those in or near 21 the floodplain of the Guadalupe River and/or its tributaries. 22 Item 23, consider and discuss relevance of Kerr 23 County Flood and Damage Prevention Order Number 26463, 24 approved June 26, 2000, and subsequent Court Order Number 25 28420 adopted November 24, 2003, which amended the original 2-13-06 135 1 order, as it may apply to mining, rock crushing and related 2 operations in or near the floodplain of the Guadalupe River 3 and/or its tributaries, and take appropriate actions to 4 strengthen the same. 5 Item 24, consider and discuss Senate Bill 1354, 6 which amended Chapter 26, Subchapter M, of the Texas Water 7 Code, its relevance to current and planned mining operations 8 in Kerr County on the Guadalupe River and/or its tributaries, 9 and authorize an official meeting between Kerr County, 10 U.G.R.A. officials, concerned area citizens, and state 11 legislators to discuss possible introduction of similar 12 legislation to protect the Guadalupe River. 13 Item 25, consider and discuss matters contained in 14 the Community Covenant between Burnet County and Capital 15 Aggregate of Austin, Texas, methods by which a similar 16 agreement might be negotiated between Kerr County and 17 Wheatcraft, Incorporated, addressing activities related to 18 mining and rock crushing such as noise, truck traffic, 19 blasting, stormwater discharge, et cetera, if legally possible 20 to do so. 21 And Item 26, consider, discuss, and take appropriate 22 action regarding report from Environmental Health Director 23 Miguel Arreola identifying an unpermitted septic system 24 installation on Jerry Wheatcraft property located at 6133 25 Highway 27 in Center Point, and its current status. 2-13-06 136 1 Commissioner Williams, I think you were the -- you 2 placed the majority of these items on the agenda, so I'll turn 3 it over to you at this time. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Judge. I did, 5 indeed, put all these items on the agenda, and there was one 6 very basic reason. There are a lot of folks in the county, 7 particularly in the eastern part of the county, who really 8 have a strong belief that the county may have more authority 9 to do some of these regulatory matters than we have heretofore 10 believed we had. So, I've asked the County Attorney to come 11 and tell us exactly what our authority is in some of these 12 items, particularly the items -- basically, the first item and 13 the second item dealing with the floodplain, I've asked, 14 through Road and Bridge, Mr. Howard to come from the T.C.E.Q. 15 and talk to us about the floodplain issues. And so I think -- 16 and I appreciate your willingness to consolidate all these 17 items. It is one agenda item, but each of those topics are 18 separate in terms of the dimension. And the question is, if 19 we have additional authority, what is it? How best to use it. 20 If we don't have, what would be a good approach to -- to go to 21 work on this particular issue? 22 With your permission, I'll deal with the very last 23 one first, because I have the answer in my hand, and that had 24 to do with a report I had from the Environmental Health 25 Director with respect to an alleged violation of our On-Site 2-13-06 137 1 Septic Facilities, and Mr. Arreola has written to me reporting 2 the following information. This is dated February 10. "And, 3 therefore, to keep you informed of the previously discovered 4 illegal septic system at the above-referenced location," -- 5 above-referenced location is Wheatcraft, Inc., 6133 Highway 6 27. Parts -- he writes, "Parts of the original illegal septic 7 system at the site were uncovered for our inspection. 8 Professional Registered Sanitarian Charles Digges performed 9 the site evaluation and uncovered parts of the essence of the 10 septic system necessary for inspection. Mr. Digges also 11 provided the required documentation by signing and submitting 12 sealed plans as per the requirements -- minimum requirements 13 T.A.C. 30, Chapter 285, O.S.S.F." Mr. Arreola says, "I 14 performed a preliminary inspection and confirmed Mr. Digges' 15 findings on 11/28, and performed a final inspection on 12/30, 16 after reviewing the plans. The system," he says, "now meets 17 minimum state standards required for on-site sewage 18 facilities. The final installation was performed..." blah, 19 blah, blah, blah. So, that one is dispatched. 20 Without getting any further into it, I think it's 21 appropriate, Judge, if you will -- I've asked the County 22 Attorney to review exactly what the law says we have the 23 authority to do, and he's going to tell us that. And then, 24 without any further ado, unless -- the Court will have a bunch 25 of questions, I'm sure. We'll -- we'll go to the T.C.E.Q. 2-13-06 138 1 findings report with respect to floodplain order. 2 Mr. Emerson? 3 MR. EMERSON: Thank you. I'm going to start this 4 out with somewhat of a basic rendition of what I think you're 5 all familiar with. But counties are created under the Texas 6 Constitution of 1876, and we're created as a subdivision of 7 the state for the sole purpose of doing the duty of the state. 8 Now, the problem with that is, is that -- and I hate to use 9 this analogy, but we're kind of like the state being an owner, 10 and we're the dog on a leash. We're supposed to do what the 11 duty -- or whatever the owner; i.e., the State, wants us to 12 do, but we only have as much room to move as the leash they 13 give us, and we cannot exceed the statutory authority that's 14 specifically given to us by the Legislature. 15 Now, this is somewhat comprehensive, but in the last 16 two and a half to three months, I -- in searching for 17 authority for the County to become involved in quarries in 18 general on the Guadalupe River and what our limitations and 19 our authority was, I talked to Harris County, Comal County, 20 Limestone County, U.G.R.A., Headwaters, Texas Association of 21 Counties, Texas Commission on Environmental Quality, the 22 National Resource Commission, the Lower Colorado River 23 Authority, the Texas Water Development Board, David Brooks, 24 who is a county law attorney working out of Austin that 25 specializes in advising counties and Legislature on county 2-13-06 139 1 authority, the Health and Safety Code, the Water Code, the 2 National Resource Code, the Local Government Code, and last 3 but not least, the Brazos River Test Area that was authorized 4 by the Legislature, I've looked into that, at the last 5 legislative session. The long and the short of it after all 6 that investigation is that we're right back to square one. 7 Unless something specifically fits within the County's purview 8 under subdivision development, or fits within our ability to 9 regulate the river according to floodplain management, we 10 really don't have much authority. 11 If you take a look at the Health and Safety Code, we 12 have some limited authority over solid waste. That doesn't 13 necessarily fit within quarrying and mining along the 14 Guadalupe River. The Texas Clean Air Act under the Health and 15 Safety Code authorizes us to step in and enforce issues under 16 those matters, but once again, we're back to ambient air 17 source contamination as far as dust and so forth. Doesn't 18 necessarily trigger that. The T.C.E.Q. is the monitoring 19 agency. Waste transportation. There's no indications of 20 anything from a quarry or a mine in this particular instance, 21 or the other issues along the Guadalupe that would trigger 22 that. Regulations of subdivision and platting. There's no 23 subdividing of land going on. We don't have anything to stand 24 on. It's not a county road running along these facilities; 25 it's a state highway, so the County can't regulate heavy 2-13-06 140 1 trucking on those roads. 2 Water pollution issues fall under the Water Code, 3 but once again, you're back to T.C.E.Q. and/or the Upper 4 Guadalupe River Authority having the authority to do anything. 5 The County can step in under the Federal Flood Insurance Act 6 if any of the mines do any kind of development that would 7 cause an increase in -- in the rate along the Guadalupe River. 8 So long as they do not do anything to affect the flood rate 9 outside the statute, then our hands are bound. As much as we 10 would like to do something or the citizens would like the 11 County to step in, we just don't have the authority. Even if 12 you look in the Health and Safety Code under the nuisance 13 statutes, it just doesn't fit under the definition that's 14 allowed for the County to take any action. The only possible 15 action there would be after the fact somewhat; if the water 16 retention ponds create a health and safety hazard, then we can 17 step in. But our hands are tied. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You mentioned roads. There 19 is concern -- public concern that has to do with traffic, 20 acceleration lanes, deceleration lanes, tarping of trucks, 21 load limits, all that stuff. Is that anything the County can 22 deal with under our -- our statutory authority, or is that all 23 TexDOT? 24 MR. EMERSON: It's TexDOT, 'cause you're looking at 25 a state highway, not on a county road. 2-13-06 141 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: TexDOT, okay. Under the 2 Texas -- under the Clean Air Code, there's nothing there? 3 MR. EMERSON: You're back to T.C.E.Q. And if 4 T.C.E.Q. provides the permit for operation, then many of the 5 acts that we might possibly have an avenue operate under, we 6 don't have. In other words, if they license a particular 7 facility, then you're back to the all the monitoring and 8 enforcement is basically through T.C.E.Q. We can act as a -- 9 as an informing agency for the state, or police agency in the 10 stance of providing it with information, but it's up to 11 T.C.E.Q. to take the action or authorize the County, as a 12 subdivision of the state, to take an action. We can't do it 13 on our own. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Rex, there was recently a 15 T.C.E.Q. public meeting in Center Point with respect to the 16 air quality permit that was filed by Wheatcraft, Incorporated, 17 and those folks came down and they conducted that meeting, and 18 they -- they dealt solely with that particular issue. They 19 didn't go far afield and try to deal with water issues, 20 because that's a separate branch of T.C.E.Q., and that -- that 21 splits us off in a different direction. My question is, in 22 your opinion, does the County have sufficient standing with 23 the T.C.E.Q. that we could go and make a -- a presentation or 24 a case or submit any evidence or information with -- before 25 T.C.E.Q. on air quality? 2-13-06 142 1 MR. EMERSON: As it stands right now, the County 2 essentially has the same authority as any other citizen, or 3 the same standing as any other citizens, even in Center Point, 4 that wants to complain. We don't have any more; we don't have 5 any less. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The word "affected," 7 a-f-f-e-c-t-e-d, applies to those who are in close proximity, 8 or would it allow the County as well in? 9 MR. EMERSON: The County is somewhat tied in that, 10 unlike a city, we don't have general police protection to step 11 in for the health, safety, and welfare of the citizens, except 12 on a very limited basis. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 14 MR. EMERSON: And I think that's probably an 15 extremely gray area, whether we -- whether we could initiate a 16 lawsuit or step into a lawsuit as a party with standing, 17 quote, in the legal capacity. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That -- that would be a 19 possibility if the Court authorized that? Based on what? 20 MR. EMERSON: Well, what I'm saying is -- is right 21 now, there's no information to indicate that we would have the 22 ability to do that. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I see. Okay. And the same 24 would apply to water regulation? Those things are in the 25 hands of either the river authority, for surface water, or the 2-13-06 143 1 underground -- Headwaters Underground Conservation District 2 with respect to drilling and the use of the water, or the 3 diversion of the water from -- from the river, or the return 4 of water to the river. Those things are not County authority 5 issues? 6 MR. EMERSON: That's correct. We -- they're of 7 interest to the County, but we don't have any statutory 8 authority to do anything. And perhaps the main difference in 9 this particular case is, if you look at the Upper Guadalupe 10 River Authority, my understanding is that they do not have any 11 rules for the river corridor at this time, whereas if you look 12 at the Lower Colorado River Authority and some of the others, 13 they have very specific rules for development along the river 14 corridor and how the land can be used. And we just don't have 15 any -- any of those ordinances or -- or rules to work under. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You provided me with a large 17 packet of information regarding Lower Colorado River 18 Authority's rules, which they put in place, I guess, as an 19 authority. Would the same apply to the Guadalupe-Blanco River 20 Authority? Do you know? 21 MR. EMERSON: I -- I don't know the answer to that. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 23 MR. EMERSON: My understanding is they're a lot more 24 active than the Upper Guadalupe River Authority, but I don't 25 know to what extent. 2-13-06 144 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: What authority, if any, does our 3 floodplain administration capability give us with regard to 4 this subject? 5 MR. EMERSON: We can step in and we have right of 6 access to the property. We have a floodplain permit that 7 would have to be applied for and approved. But Mr. Odom, in 8 this particular case, his authority is limited by whether or 9 not the -- in this particular application, the gravel or 10 mining operation would have any effect on the rise of the 11 water. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I want to get the T.C.E.Q. 13 gentleman to talk to us about the floodplain. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Anything else you can shed? 16 MR. EMERSON: I wish I could, but despite all the 17 research, and probably thousands of pages of it we've gone 18 through in the office, there's just not anything there we have 19 to hang our hat on at this time. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Nothing, to your knowledge, 21 prevents the Court from weighing in with respect to seeking 22 our legislators to introduce legislation, does it? 23 MR. EMERSON: No, sir. And, in -- in fact, there's 24 a pilot program in effect that I referred to earlier along the 25 Brazos River that was enacted by the Legislature in 2005, but 2-13-06 145 1 it's a very specific, limited section of the Brazos River 2 wherein it gives the county authority to weigh in and regulate 3 mining and quarries along the river. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's one of the topics I 5 thought we'd touch on, because that raises a couple other 6 issues. But I appreciate your comments. 7 MR. EMERSON: Any more questions? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Anybody have any questions for 9 Mr. Emerson? Thank you, sir. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can we deal with Mr. Howard? 11 Mr. Howard, can you talk to us about the floodplain and 12 operations in the floodplain, as to where we are with our 13 current order and -- 14 MR. HOWARD: Sure. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- and whether or not that 16 order could be strengthened in my way? 17 MR. HOWARD: Okay. My name's Mike Howard. I'm 18 State Coordinator for the National Flood Insurance Program 19 with the Texas Commission on Environmental Quality. Actually, 20 I think I was here back in October-November last year on a -- 21 on a different subject. FEMA, which is the driving force 22 behind this, defines "development" as any man-made change to 23 the floodplain. When we have a mining operation, potentially 24 we do have a man-made change to the floodplain. What FEMA 25 requires is that this be reviewed and permitted, which it has 2-13-06 146 1 been done. In this case, according to Mr. Odom, we do have an 2 issue with the floodway. The floodway is the area that's 3 necessary to convey a 100-year flood. It's an area that needs 4 to be left open so that it does not restrict flow. What FEMA 5 requires in that case is an engineering study which would show 6 that there is no rise resulting from the development; in this 7 case, the mining operation. All of these have been satisfied. 8 I've received a copy of the -- the permit that was issued to 9 Wheatcraft, and Mr. Odom and I have discussed the engineering 10 study, and those are continuing, as I understand it, as work 11 goes on out there. Most of the work that I went out and saw 12 today is actually outside the 100-year floodplain, outside the 13 floodway as well, so most of the work really doesn't -- it's 14 not a floodplain issue. Those parts that are in, though, like 15 I said, they have been permitted; we do have engineering data 16 to -- is this correct? Right? We do have engineering data? 17 MR. ODOM: Yes. 18 MR. HOWARD: The substantial nature, we're not going 19 to see an increase in any flood heighth as a result of this 20 work. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A lot of the questions that 22 I give have to do with -- with excavation or digging in the 23 floodplain, whether floodway of the river or the floodplain as 24 a whole. Am I given to understand from what you say, then, 25 that there is no regulatory authority which the County has, 2-13-06 147 1 through its Flood Damage Prevention Order, that would prevent 2 or in any way limit digging or mining in the floodplain? 3 MR. HOWARD: No, sir. Not in your order as it reads 4 right now, no, sir. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. There's another 6 mining operation, not the one that is particularly in 7 question, that filed with Mr. Odom's office a plan -- what do 8 you call it, Leonard? A plan for whatever work is going on in 9 the -- execute a plan of action, I guess it is. 10 MR. ODOM: Yeah. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For whatever work is going 12 on in the floodplain. Different mining operation, not the one 13 we're -- that's got the community so upset. But there are 14 segments of the community that are upset because they see this 15 humungous, heavy equipment in what appears to be the floodway, 16 not the floodplain. Who monitors that? Does you -- does 17 T.C.E.Q. monitor that? Does the River Authority monitor that? 18 Does the County monitor that? Who monitors that? 19 MR. HOWARD: It is the County's responsibility. 20 When -- when a -- when a county joins the National Flood 21 Insurance Program, they actually issue three documents to 22 FEMA. They adopt a resolution, which is a promise to do 23 floodplain management. They do a court order -- in this case, 24 it's for a county -- which really outlines the specific task 25 that will be taken; i.e., getting the permit, requiring an 2-13-06 148 1 engineering study if the work's going to be done in the 2 floodway, and then a one-page application form. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Floodway or floodplain? You 4 said floodway. 5 MR. HOWARD: Floodway or floodplain. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 7 MR. HOWARD: Floodway or floodplain. The -- and for 8 the sake of clarification, the floodway normally is considered 9 considerably smaller than the floodplain itself. It's the 10 area where we have the highest velocity of flow. It is the 11 County's responsibility, to the best of their ability, to see 12 that any work that is done out there is permitted, does have 13 an engineering study, et cetera, et cetera. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. And if we find that 15 that's not being -- happening, then that's for this Court to 16 take up with the County Attorney and -- and proceed along that 17 way? 18 MR. HOWARD: Yes, sir. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's not something we 20 could call your agency into? 21 MR. HOWARD: No, sir. No, we have no regulatory 22 authority in that matter. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 24 MR. HOWARD: 'Cause it would fall under your court 25 order. And I think whatever penalty clause is contained 2-13-06 149 1 within that court order would dictate, you know, how you would 2 proceed on something like that. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: To your knowledge, is there 4 a penalty clause, Leonard? 5 MR. ODOM: Yes. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: What is it? 7 MR. ODOM: $25 a day. Each incident's -- each day's 8 an incident, till it's rectified. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. So, as long as 10 they're working in the floodplain, they can dig very near the 11 river. How deep? 12 MR. HOWARD: There is no specified depth. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No specified depth? 14 MR. HOWARD: No, sir. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In any regulations anywhere? 16 MR. HOWARD: None that I'm aware of. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They can go to China if they 18 think they can get equipment there? 19 MR. HOWARD: Again, none that I'm aware of. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Interesting. 21 MR. HOWARD: I think -- and this came up, I think, 22 when I was here in November. We were talking about 23 development in the floodplain itself. Like I say, the 24 floodway's a very touchy issue. If at all possible, it's good 25 to leave that open. We have golf courses, things like that, 2-13-06 150 1 that go in up and down various rivers. The more open it is, 2 the better. But there is no -- nothing that prohibits 3 development or mining, in this case, from the floodway. It 4 only says if you're going to do these things in the floodway, 5 you have to show through engineering studies that there will 6 not be any resulting increase in flood heighth. It's commonly 7 referred to as a no-rise. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. So, I guess it 9 stands to reason that the digging of a huge hole to take 10 material from would probably not contribute to a rise in the 11 level of the river on -- when it's on flood -- 12 MR. HOWARD: Correct. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And, therefore, it wouldn't 14 come under the aegis of the Floodplain Prevention -- Damage 15 Prevention Order. We're only dealing with what causes the 16 river to rise. 17 MR. HOWARD: Yes, sir. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Anybody else have any 19 questions? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Any questions for this gentleman? 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I've got some opinions. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I suppose that's the next best 23 thing. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Do we have anybody else to 25 hear from? 2-13-06 151 1 JUDGE TINLEY: We've got some participants that have 2 asked to be heard, and I intend to get to them -- 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think I'll wait. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: -- as we progress here. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do have one question. 6 MR. HOWARD: Yes, sir? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: T.C.E.Q., formerly known as 8 T.N.R.C.C., and that I think the Legislature labeled as a 9 super-agency maybe at one time, which -- which included the 10 old Air Control Board, Texas Water Commission and some other 11 agencies. 12 MR. HOWARD: Yes, sir. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That is correct? 14 MR. HOWARD: Parts of the Health Department, I 15 think, were brought in and so forth, yes, sir. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. That's a -- my 17 memory's working, then. Very good, thank you. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Does your division of 19 T.C.E.Q. have anything to do with how water's returned to the 20 river? 21 MR. HOWARD: No, sir. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which part of your agency 23 does deal with that? 24 MR. HOWARD: I would start with the regional office, 25 Region 13 out of San Antonio. Begin there, and then if they 2-13-06 152 1 want to pass it on up to Austin, they'll know the appropriate 2 people that they're going to need to deal with. But I think 3 Bobby Caldwell is head of the water program there in -- in San 4 Antonio. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: C-a-l-d -- 6 MR. HOWARD: C-a-l-d-w-e-l-l, yes. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He's only been there about 50 8 years. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I appreciate you coming 10 down, Mr. Howard. I really do. 11 MR. HOWARD: You bet. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. 13 MR. HOWARD: You bet. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, while we're going 15 through there, the next item that we had on there has to deal 16 with -- has to do with Senate Bill 1354. And, as the County 17 Attorney noted, that's a piece of legislation that was enacted 18 in the last -- I believe the last regular session of the 19 Legislature, and has to do with the John Graves Scenic 20 Riverway, which is a portion of the Brazos River Basin and its 21 contributing watershed located downstream of the Morris 22 Sheppard Dam on Possum Kingdom Reservoir in Palo Pinto County 23 and extending to the county line between Parker and Hood 24 Counties. My understanding is that's a single-river piece of 25 legislation. That's a pilot piece of legislation, and it 2-13-06 153 1 does -- and it's -- periodically the folks up on the Brazos or 2 those counties involved, through whatever their efforts are, I 3 suppose, to report back to the state water -- and talk about 4 water quality and -- and whatever, so forth. So, the real 5 issue is whether or not that makes any sense to have a similar 6 piece of legislation in Kerr County for the -- our section of 7 the Guadalupe River, and if so, how do we get there? I note 8 our friends from the Upper Guadalupe River Authority are here 9 today. Mr. Buck, Janet Robinson, do either of you want to say 10 anything about that as to whether or not that makes any sense? 11 Would your Board of Directors be inclined to join with Kerr 12 County in seeking assistance of our state legislators in a 13 similar venture? I don't know where that will take us, but we 14 never know till we try. 15 MS. ROBINSON: Commissioner Williams, I don't know 16 that everyone on the Commissioners Court has met our new 17 director. This is Mr. Raymond Buck, and he's here with me 18 today. I'm chairing the Quarry Committee, and it's early 19 days. We just got a copy of this legislation last week. Of 20 course, our main concern is that there are already existing 21 uses along the river, the camping industry being the one that 22 comes to mind, that we would not wish to go forward in 23 pursuing this if they were in conflict with the setbacks that 24 are required under this legislation. This was tailored to 25 their individual situation, and it may not work in our 2-13-06 154 1 situation. Now, whether or not we would seek some other 2 legislative remedy to this problem, of course, we're very 3 interested in Senator Fraser's bill that has to do with 4 quarries, and his representative had come and spoken to the 5 committee and to the public that was invited. And I think 6 that one of the recommendations of the committee may be to 7 support this legislation in the future. But the committee 8 hasn't reported to the board, so I certainly couldn't speak 9 for the board. We are studying the -- the legislation that 10 you mentioned to see if it does conflict with some of the uses 11 of the -- along the river at the present time. Our river -- 12 that section of the river is more pristine than what goes 13 through Kerr County, which already has quite a bit of 14 development along it, so it may not be appropriate to take 15 that bill and try to lay it over our situation. But we're 16 reviewing all those possibilities. We're finding the same 17 situation that you're finding. We, at this time, have no 18 rules as other river authorities do. We haven't ever used a 19 rule-making capacity, so we're kind of at ground zero to see 20 where we might go from here. I think that's all I wanted to 21 say. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. There's a couple 23 other things I just wanted to mention. I appreciate it. 24 Thank you for coming, Janet and Ray, both of you. County 25 Attorney mentioned Limestone County, and I believe you 2-13-06 155 1 mentioned Hays County. Is that right, Mr. County Attorney? 2 In Hays County, they have a very similar situation, and that 3 Commissioners Court is doing its best to seek legislation as 4 well, and they have been in touch with their legislator, who 5 happens to be Patrick Rose. I believe he introduced 6 legislation last time, but it didn't go anywhere. And the 7 information I have -- I'll condense it here -- is that during 8 the legislative interim -- and this is Mr. Rose's writing, 9 nobody else; not our legislator or anybody else. "Our office 10 will also continue to reach out to like-minded legislators to 11 build a bipartisan delegation that is ready to work on and 12 pass legislation in the next session to prevent situations 13 like ours in Hays County." 14 Theirs is very identical to the situation that we're 15 experiencing here right now. "I will refile," said Mr. Rose, 16 "legislation to require a quarry permit to be obtained before 17 quarry operations begin. The quarry permit would include a 18 site plan assessing the environmental soundness of the 19 proposed operation, including a report from an independent 20 hydrologist, a blasting plan, including a requirement that all 21 blasting be monitored with a seismograph or vibration monitor, 22 and a requirement that quarry operators properly construct and 23 maintain all access driveway, acceleration/deceleration lanes, 24 turn lanes," blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So, there are 25 others who are also working on this. I'm not going to ask the 2-13-06 156 1 Court to do anything with me today, or for this. I just want 2 to air the subject at a subsequent meeting. I -- I will try 3 to draft a resolution that the Court can weigh in on, take a 4 look at, about seeking assistance from our legislators in this 5 regard. 6 I'm also going to ask the Court to consider at a 7 later -- at a subsequent meeting, a resolution that would 8 enable your agency, the Commissioners Court, to see what, if 9 any, assistance we can get from Guadalupe-Blanco River 10 Authority. I think, probably, together we can do things maybe 11 equal to or maybe better than we could singularly, and the 12 more weight that we have coming out of Kerr County, it seems 13 to me, the better that would be. The other item I think we 14 had deals with a legislation issue. There was -- and I gave 15 this to the County Attorney; I hope he had an opportunity to 16 review it -- a community covenant that was negotiated between 17 Burnet County and Capital Aggregates of Austin, and it dealt 18 with issues, I assume, that were issues aside from what 19 T.C.E.Q. typically deals with, like air quality and water and 20 so forth and so on. Rex, did you have a chance to look at 21 that, and do you have any comments on that? 22 MR. EMERSON: I did have a chance to look at it, 23 Bill, very briefly, and this covenant is basically just an 24 agreement between the county and the operating entity. It -- 25 mostly, it addresses issues in addition to the T.C.E.Q. 2-13-06 157 1 issues, and it's a concession of operating conditions to 2 minimize the impact on the community. But it's important to 3 note that this was voluntarily agreed to between the operating 4 entity and the community. I mean, it's not something that we 5 could step in and -- and force a quarry to do up front. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It was a voluntary agreement 7 between the aggregate operator and Burnet County? 8 MR. EMERSON: That's correct. And as part of 9 that -- and I don't mention -- I don't think I mentioned this 10 earlier, but the actual regulation of the mining of the 11 quarries and the pits is out of Austin. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm sorry? 13 MR. EMERSON: The actual regulation of mining 14 quarries and pits is out of a specific regulatory agency in 15 Austin. So, this is over and above whatever that commission 16 is doing. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, thank you. Judge, I 18 think it would be proper to take comments from people or ask 19 questions or whatever. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: We've had some individuals who've 21 indicated a desire to participate, and I want to give them the 22 opportunity to make their comments. The first one is 23 Mr. Robert C. White. Mr. White? 24 MR. WHITE: Thank you, Judge Tinley and 25 Commissioners. And I especially appreciate what you've been 2-13-06 158 1 doing, Mr. Williams, and I hope Mr. Letz is in line with you; 2 he's my Commissioner. I live at 6723 State Highway 27, which 3 is approximately halfway between Center Point and Comfort, and 4 about three miles downstream from where Mr. Wheatcraft has 5 this facility. And I'd like to bring up what my concerns are, 6 and concerns of others who live around me. Air quality is a 7 concern. It's not as much of a concern to me, because I live 8 due east of the place, and seldom do we have a due west wind 9 that would affect me that much. I do live 3 miles downstream, 10 so whatever he does to the river is going to affect me 11 considerably. We have guests come up and swim in the river 12 and fish in the river and all of that, so anything that he 13 does to that river will affect us. 14 Noise is a concern. And I understand at the air 15 quality meeting, from Marci Downing, who lives next door to 16 him, that they're making considerable noise over there. She 17 says she hears the trucks going "beep, beep, beep" ail the 18 time, and when they back up. And I suppose when they get 19 their rock crusher going, that will be even more noise. 20 Traffic is a concern. As you mention, there will be a lot of 21 big trucks moving -- going in and out of the place. One of my 22 main concerns is, what are they going to do to our aquifer if 23 they get this well permit? I think the number was something 24 like 700 gallons a minute they'd be drawing out of the 25 aquifer. My well is in the same aquifer that their well would 2-13-06 159 1 be in, and in 2000 I had to lower my well because of not 2 enough water available in that aquifer. And my neighbors on 3 both sides also had to at the same time. One of the things 4 the flood people might look at that I think will affect it, 5 and that is I believe there were cypress trees along that 6 river at one time, and I think it's illegal to cut down 7 cypress trees. And I don't see any cypress trees over there 8 on that side of the river when I drive down the 1341. 9 And I'd like to just state to the Court that, in my 10 observation, Mr. Jerry Wheatfield (sic) is not a law-abiding 11 citizen. He has broken the law, and he's been cited for 12 mining without a permit, for using water out of the river 13 without the proper permit, and it sounded like today they 14 brought up that he didn't quite get his septic system up to 15 snuff without a permit. So, I would just like y'all to 16 consider that any limitations we place on him may not be 17 obeyed, because he does not have a record of doing so. And I 18 also wondered if anybody has contacted the federal EPA to see 19 if they can do anything to help us out. Thank you. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. White. Frances 21 Lovett. Ms. Lovett? 22 MS. LOVETT: I'm Frances Lovett. I live at 6749 23 Highway 27, with a Comfort address, actually. But I -- I was 24 wanting to speak to you in reference to 1.24, an effort to get 25 some legislators and everyone involved in this interested, 2-13-06 160 1 because, obviously, the gravel industry will continue to grow. 2 I'm sure you gentlemen are all aware that the -- that it -- 3 the gravel produced in Kerr County is much cheaper than the 4 gravel produced in the pits around San Antonio. Therefore, 5 it's very cost-effective for contractors and road -- and 6 people doing road construction to drive up here, even with our 7 high gas prices, and haul gravel back to San Antonio. 8 Certainly, the road construction won't settle down. 9 Construction won't slow down, and so I perceive that our 10 gravel industry will do nothing but expand in the county. And 11 right now, I would guess most of the operations are in east 12 Kerr County, but I can see that with the ongoing need for 13 gravel, it will probably extend even west to our more pristine 14 areas of the county. And as -- so, for that reason, I feel 15 like we need to get together with our state legislators and 16 get some legislation -- legislation in place similar to 17 Mr. Fraser's bill, because -- Senator Fraser's bill, because 18 apparently his bill was soundly defeated in the last 19 Legislature; there was just no interest. 20 And there's just a couple of real -- real quick 21 other things. I -- I would hope that if we can arrange a 22 meeting with all interested parties, that there would be 23 someone there to address the heavy traffic, those -- I haven't 24 seen such huge trucks. They're the size of semis who go by my 25 house every day. I live on Highway 27. So, does the County 2-13-06 161 1 pay anything on road maintenance along Highway 27? If it's a 2 high -- if it's a state highway, I'm not sure, but certainly 3 the maintenance is going to be increased along Highway 27 with 4 those huge trucks. Safety, I think everyone's already brought 5 up maybe the DOT could help us with that if we could get a 6 meeting together. And at our Center Point meeting, another 7 lady brought up the issue of -- the health issue of open pits, 8 stale water, mosquito breeding and West Nile virus, so that's 9 an ongoing issue for all of us. And as far as river rise, as 10 far as -- as the consideration for -- within the floodplain, 11 river rise may be the common denominator or the thing we look 12 at, but I guarantee you, when -- when the river bed is cleared 13 out, the velocity picks up. I live down river, and I have 14 lived there for 35 years, and every little bit of vegetation, 15 cypress trees or whatever, that is cleared off along the 16 riverbank, as Mr. Wheatcraft has cleared it off, increases the 17 river velocity and the damage to his next-door neighbor and 18 the rest of us downstream. Thank you. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you Ms. Lovett. Mr. Robert 20 Ligon. 21 MR. LIGON: Hi. My name is Robert Ligon; I live at 22 155 J.J. Lane. I'm about 400 yards west upwind from 23 Wheatcraft Quarries. My concern continues to be that our 24 school children are required by law to attend school, yet the 25 possibility of -- of them developing new health problems or 2-13-06 162 1 aggravating health problems they may already have is quite 2 possible that it can rise with the -- with the quarrying that 3 is -- that is anticipated to take place at Wheatcraft. And I 4 just can't understand why we don't have some kind of law in 5 our county that is going to protect these children from this 6 abuse that they're going to be subjected to. You know, the ag 7 barn, the F.F.A., the football field, the baseball field, all 8 of those practice fields are -- are right down there on the 9 river. The wind is predominantly northwest, so it blows up 10 through the school, so the children that are in the school 11 yards will be subjected to the dust and things that come -- 12 that come up the river. The noise will be something that the 13 classrooms will have to deal with. The kids, when they go on 14 breaks and they go outside and there's a lot of noise, they're 15 going to have to talk louder to -- just to converse. 16 I mean, there's just a multitude of things that's 17 going to happen to the school up there, and no one, you know, 18 seems to really be looking at the effects that this is going 19 to have on the school children. And, as has already been 20 pointed out, a quarter of the children there in school suffer 21 from respiratory problems, and I really feel like we need to 22 do something. There should be something that we can do to 23 make sure that our children are not -- do not suffer if this 24 permit gets issued and Mr. Wheatcraft starts doing his 25 quarrying. That was my -- my first thing. There -- there are 2-13-06 163 1 some federal laws that pertain to -- I think it was the Clean 2 River Act or the Clear River Act. I don't know exactly how it 3 works, but it would seem like -- I don't know; maybe the 4 County doesn't have any authority, but it seems like they 5 would be able to turn on someone that does have the authority. 6 We've talked with T.C.E.Q., but maybe we need to start getting 7 the federal agencies involved in this to find out whether or 8 not there's something that we may be missing, you know. 9 Ms. Robinson had indicated that there seems to be, maybe, a -- 10 a conflict here between -- was it the Graves? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Senate Bill 1354. 12 MR. LIGON: Right, and what we have now. But it 13 seems like we could -- we could pass something so that this 14 won't happen in the future. We may not be able to do anything 15 about what's happening today, but maybe we can do something to 16 control these things in the future. I certainly hope that we 17 would do something like that, and I would certainly hope that 18 you gentlemen on the Commissioners Court would also consider 19 some kind of boundary. I mean, to just let someone come into 20 a town and start mining and just -- you know, just seems like, 21 you know, there should be a mile, 2 miles, 3 miles or 22 something, that an operation such as this cannot come into a 23 school or a hospital area. I mean, there should be something 24 definitely stated so that people know that there are 25 perimeters that they have to operate within, and it seems 2-13-06 164 1 right now there's nothing like that. 2 The T.C.E.Q. seems to be interested that -- if 3 there's a school within 3,000 feet of the operation, but if 4 they are, so what? There's nothing that seems to control if 5 they are within this 3,000 feet. You know, "Oh, we got 3,000 6 feet." I mean, I don't -- I haven't been able to find anyone 7 that can tell me what's gained by being -- what's gained by 8 asking the question, are there schools or churches within 9 3,000 feet. And you answer yes, and that just seems to be it. 10 You just check a box off, and nothing transpires from that. 11 And it seems like there should be a trigger that says that if 12 you're within 3,000 feet, then you can't do this. You got to 13 be 4,000 feet or a mile or 2 miles or something like that. So 14 that ordinary persons like myself can -- can look at something 15 and say, well, that's, you know, not within the law. And I -- 16 I've downloaded a lot of laws from the internet and gone 17 through them, and I can't find anything. And I've talked with 18 people at T.C.E.Q., and no one seems to be able to tell me 19 anything about, you know, any restrictions. He can -- 20 Mr. Wheatcraft can run his operation right up into the school, 21 apparently, and unless people really get sick or something, 22 there's -- you know, there's -- no one cares. And -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Robert, I think that's an 24 issue that is currently before the T.C.E.Q. That information 25 was placed into the record at the T.C.E.Q. public meeting in 2-13-06 165 1 Center Point with respect to his operation in proximity to the 2 local school, churches, et cetera, so that information is in 3 their hands. And I don't -- they haven't rendered a decision 4 on that yet, so I think it's preliminary to indicate that they 5 won't. I don't know that they won't. 6 MR. LIGON: Well, I'm -- 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It is an issue. There's no 8 question about that. 9 MR. LIGON: Right. Well, I'm just stating that from 10 the laws I've read and the people I've asked, you know, we 11 say, "Are you within 3,000 feet?" Yes, you are, but -- and 12 that's it. Okay, you just check the box off, and like you 13 say, something might come back, but I'm not sure. But if we 14 can get something like the Graves Act passed for our own area, 15 we can specify something like that in there so that the people 16 that want to open this type of business here and the citizens 17 of the county also will know that -- you know, what the 18 parameters are, is what I'm trying to get at, for our own 19 benefit in the future. And you mentioned that was one of the 20 reasons why we're kind of having this hearing today, is to 21 bring these things up, and I just really feel like, you know, 22 that they are real concerns. Like I said, our school children 23 are required by law to go to school, and yet we're going to 24 turn right around and, you know, we don't know whether there's 25 going to be a problem with the dust or not. 2-13-06 166 1 But the thing to me is that in so many cases, after 2 the fact, we find that there's a problem, and what I would 3 like to see us do is try to address the problem before we find 4 out that there is a problem. And I guess that's one of the 5 reasons why I came up here today. I just wanted to kind of 6 point it out. I don't know that you gentlemen on the -- on 7 the Court have -- have been involved in this very much, except 8 what you've read in the newspaper. And I just -- that's one 9 of the reasons why I'm bringing all this up, Mr. Williams, is 10 so that everyone's aware of what's going on, and food for 11 thought for everybody. And I really feel like this is a 12 county-wide problem. It's not something that's going to get 13 smaller. Like the lady here mentioned before, you know, this 14 is a prime area, and so I can see we're going to have a lot 15 more of this in the future. And I'm not trying to -- I'm not 16 trying to put these people out of business, but I'm also 17 trying to make it so that we can -- we know -- everybody knows 18 where we stand and what's going to be required, and I think 19 that would benefit everybody. And it would certainly cut down 20 on a lot of aggravation and doctor bills. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Robert. 22 Appreciate that. I want to direct a question to the County 23 Attorney as a result of what you indicated. With respect to 24 the school, we both know that -- that the issue of the 25 proximity was raised at the public meeting, and there is -- 2-13-06 167 1 there is something about the air quality rules that indicates 2 that -- that that can become an issue. It's up to the 3 T.C.E.Q. to determine to what extent that is an issue and what 4 remedy it would propose; is that correct? 5 MR. EMERSON: That's correct. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: My second question -- well, 7 I have a couple other questions. Is there anything that the 8 County -- any authority the County has to be involved in 9 issues that -- with respect to what it would appear are the 10 issues that the school Board of Trustees should take up? 11 Other than to make them aware. 12 MR. EMERSON: Are you talking about the effect on 13 the school, itself? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And anything related to that 15 that goes to air quality or -- or health and safety of the 16 children. 17 MR. EMERSON: That's really the school that has 18 standing. The health -- the County's limited. You know, it 19 falls back on the T.C.E.Q. as the regulatory authority to make 20 that decision, and the County just does not have the statutory 21 authority to do it. The school, with the information that was 22 presented at the hearing in Center Point, would have much more 23 proper standing than the County does in stepping in and 24 raising the issue. It's a direct impact on their teachers, 25 their facilities, and their students. And 3,000 feet 2-13-06 168 1 specifically triggered certain action in the T.C.E.Q. area. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: To the extent you know, has 3 the EPA -- the federal EPA ceded its jurisdiction in this 4 matter to the T.C.E.Q.? 5 MR. EMERSON: I don't know the answer to that. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do we know? We don't know. 7 So, a letter from yours truly or anybody else who wishes to 8 invite the federal EPA into the -- into the act would not be 9 counterproductive to what the T.C.E.Q. is doing? Or would it 10 be helpful, or do we know? 11 MR. EMERSON: All they can do is say no, if you 12 notify them. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 14 MR. EMERSON: And the same issue -- I assume you're 15 going to get to this eventually, anyway. The same issue is 16 the Corps of Engineers being involved in a navigable river in 17 the floodplain. And I don't know to what authority -- or to 18 what extent they've ceded their authority to the state, 19 either. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I want to go back to 21 what Mr. White asked and talked about for just a second. It 22 has to do with the use -- the proposed use of the water. If I 23 remember the application correctly, Mr. Wheatcraft had 24 indicated he was going to use something like 700 gallons a 25 minute, and this had to do with, I assume, dampening the dust 2-13-06 169 1 or whatever. 2 MR. WHITE: Yes. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: An operation -- 4 MR. WHITE: Can I say a little bit more? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's 700 gallons a minute 6 -- come on up. If you think about that, that translates into 7 a tremendous amount of -- 8 MR. WHITE: Yes. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- of acre feet per year. 10 And it did raise some questions that -- and I know that the 11 U.G.R.A.'s looking at some of those questions in terms of how 12 that water -- if he takes it from the river, how that water 13 will be returned to the river. That's an issue they need to 14 look at. 15 MR. WHITE: What was stated at the Center Point 16 meeting was that they're going to have some retention ponds 17 down there that catch the water and recycle it. What they 18 didn't mention is, those retention ponds are gravel, porous 19 gravel. They don't hold anything. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Probably not. 21 MR. WHITE: And, also, when they spray water out on 22 the things, they said they can collect a certain amount of 23 that back. I have my doubts, because lots of that evaporates 24 or it's -- you know, it's gone. It doesn't ever get back down 25 into the river flow. 2-13-06 170 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The other part of your 2 concern had to deal with taking water from the underground 3 aquifer. 4 MR. WHITE: Yeah, that was -- 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He had made an application 6 to Headwaters for another -- for another deep well. Two 7 already exist on the property, and I think Headwaters properly 8 deferred action on his application until he can provide 9 information as to the depth of the two existing wells and all 10 the information they require about that. But I think the 11 public's concern, as you registered, is valid about the impact 12 of the new one he's talking about on all of the other area 13 wells. 14 MR. WHITE: Yes. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And I believe that's in 16 front of them to take a look at. 17 MR. WHITE: Okay. As far as what they have done 18 down at the river, the cutting down of the trees will cause 19 the river to flow our way faster. He's got a lot of gravel 20 piled up around these ponds and stuff he's doing down there 21 that'll probably wind up down at our place and Ms. Lovett's 22 place. I may even see some of his equipment on my property, 23 'cause he's got it down below the 100-year floodplain. Thank 24 you. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, sir. 2-13-06 171 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. White. Is there 2 anyone else here today that wishes to be heard relative to 3 these issues we've been discussing? Anyone at all out there 4 that wishes to be heard in any respect with regard to -- 5 MS. KINNEY: I want to be heard. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, ma'am. Please come forward and 7 give your name and address to the reporter. 8 MS. KINNEY: Yes. I'm Nina Kinney. Bill Williams' 9 our Commissioner. I would like to know -- everybody -- it 10 seems like FEMA, they can't do anything. We have no laws. 11 The County can't do anything. So, can you -- and you can't do 12 anything. Your hands -- everybody's saying, "Our hands are 13 tied," you know. So, where -- what's happened to our law 14 makers? Where are they? What's happened? Why has not some 15 of this -- it's just like saying, no, you can't -- we can't do 16 this, we can't do that, you know. So, these issues -- 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They don't go away, Nina. 18 MS. KINNEY: Huh? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The issues don't go away. 20 They're still out there. 21 MS. KINNEY: The issues are there, but there's no 22 law. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The issues are there, but 24 what the County Attorney is telling us is that the County 25 doesn't have the authority to -- 2-13-06 172 1 MS. KINNEY: The County can't -- yes. So, who's 2 passing these laws in the county? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll give you his name if 4 you -- 5 MS. KINNEY: Okay, I just wanted to say that. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He's not in this room. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He's not present today, but 8 Commissioner Baldwin reminds me. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. Is there anyone 10 else? Anyone else that wishes to be heard in any respect with 11 regard to these issues? You had some more comments, 12 Mr. White? 13 MR. WHITE: Yes. I'm just wondering if -- you know, 14 like they got the mafia, if you guys just can't tax them out 15 of existence. (Laughter.) 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We're trying our best. 17 MR. WHITE: Consider that. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's not a bad thought. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Anyone else wish to be heard on this 20 issue in any respect? Novel approach, Mr. White. Very novel. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I thank you, Judge, for -- 22 and the Commissioners for allowing all this -- go ahead, Dave. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I want to take three or 24 four minutes and give you my thinking on it. I tried to 25 simplify all of this, and certainly, it makes it simpler to 2-13-06 173 1 learn that we don't have any authority to directly act on this 2 issue. But I boil it down to, if we could satisfy four needs, 3 most of our problems go away. And the first need would be to 4 protect the river, make sure the river's not being hurt. 5 Second need would be to protect the health and safety of our 6 citizens, make sure that no one's safety or health is being 7 adversely impacted by the operation. The third one would be 8 to protect property rights, and one of the property rights 9 issues is Mr. Wheatcraft's. He's got a -- he's an 10 entrepreneur. He's got an investment in this. He's producing 11 a needed product. He's providing jobs and he's paying taxes. 12 I sense a whole lot of piling on going on when it comes to his 13 property rights. And then the fourth need we have is for 14 those materials. We can't import materials from Waco to build 15 our roads and -- and infrastructure. We need caliche and 16 gravel and local construction materials. So, all -- with all 17 the other issues, we almost -- I thought I was going to hear 18 that this gravel pit was going to be the ruination of high 19 school football. (Laughter.) 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not yet. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Not yet. And I wonder if 22 what's happening isn't just part of the "not in my back yard" 23 syndrome. Yeah, we need gravel, but don't mine it across the 24 street from me. Maybe the -- for those who are frustrated 25 that there are no regulatory bodies that are stepping forward 2-13-06 174 1 to give you any help, maybe the answer is the civil courts. 2 That's why we have civil courts. That's what judges and 3 juries are for. If you're being harmed, you've got evidence 4 that you're being harmed, why not take the civil court 5 approach? That's all. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got a comment before you 7 close it up. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Baldwin? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, sir. I appreciate 10 your views. I think that's a little different slant, and very 11 dangerous sitting up here in front of these folks, to say 12 things like that, but I do appreciate those views. But, you 13 know, if I were -- if I was sitting in Mr. Wheatcraft's chair 14 right now and I was hearing that the county government was 15 breathing down my neck, and the river authority was breathing 16 down my neck, and the state agency was sitting here looking at 17 me, and we're talking about the health of our children and our 18 neighbors being angry with us, I think if I were 19 Mr. Wheatcraft, I would cease and desist, fold my tent and go 20 home. Now, I don't -- I've known old Jerry a pretty good 21 while, and he's as hard-headed as I am, and I don't think he's 22 going to do that. But, you know, it doesn't appear that 23 there's any law that we can drop on him to tell him to quit 24 doing what he's doing. But just out of -- out of courtesy, if 25 nothing else, to the overall picture, if I were you, buddy, 2-13-06 175 1 I'd head to the hills. But I'm not you. But that's my only 2 comment. That's it. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you have any further comments? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, Judge, just except to 5 say thank you to the Court and to you for letting us have this 6 discussion. I think it's helpful, and I believe that if we 7 have an opportunity, we have an opportunity -- we have the 8 opportunity to attempt to engage other agencies, and I think 9 our best interest for that is to work with our River Authority 10 and our Underground Conservation District and see if we can 11 convince the state Legislature that additional laws are 12 necessary on the books to protect the health and safety of the 13 citizens. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: One more chance out here. 15 MR. WHITE: Item 1.24 mentions authorizing -- 16 authorize an official meeting. Is that going to be done? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll bring that back to the 18 Court, Mr. White. I'll frame a resolution and I'll bring it 19 back to the Court. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else by anyone out here? I 21 want you to have every opportunity to be heard and to have 22 whatever input that you want, for whatever purpose. I 23 appreciate your participation. From my standpoint, I'm -- 24 sometimes it's real difficult to strike an acceptable balance 25 between private property rights and what's perceived as needed 2-13-06 176 1 regulatory authority. I can certainly understand that -- that 2 Mr. Wheatcraft has a legitimate stake in his investment and 3 wanting to conduct his business, as long as he can do so 4 lawfully. And maybe the Legislature or the regulatory 5 agencies that implement the legislative policy are a bit 6 behind the curve. Unfortunately, legislation is generally 7 reactive instead of proactive. I think we all recognize that, 8 and sometimes it takes a problem before there's even an 9 attempt to find a solution. In any respect, I would hope that 10 there would be continued communication, both to and from the 11 parties in interest, and while it may not solve the problem, 12 it at least gives us an opportunity to work on a solution, and 13 we might narrow the issues and -- and diminish the scope of 14 the problem, at least as it's perceived from either side, and 15 I'd encourage that. 16 I wish I had a real easy answer. I'd throw it out 17 on the table and we'd get on down the road. But I don't. 18 I -- I think what might be helpful is if each of us would try 19 and put ourselves in the shoes of the other participants here, 20 and maybe we'll have a better feeling about the competing 21 interests and -- and the need to find some sort of middle 22 ground and compromise solution. But sometimes it's tough to 23 do, and I understand that. The Legislature, obviously, is 24 going to be looking at this. Maybe not necessarily because of 25 what has occurred here or very nearby, but they're already 2-13-06 177 1 looking at it. They have looked at it before, as indicated by 2 some previous committee reports which we've seen. But we'll 3 continue to work on the problem, and I hope you will too. 4 Anything else, gentlemen? Thank you. We'll stand adjourned. 5 MS. PIEPER: Judge, before you adjourn, can we go 6 back to Item 1.6? I called Hart and I did get that corrected. 7 I see what you were talking about. The reason I -- 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We need to hear this. 9 We're facing a deadline on paying a penalty. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me withdraw my declaration of 11 adjournment here, and I'm going to let these people clear the 12 room here. 13 (Discussion off the record.) 14 MS. PIEPER: Judge, the backup that was on the other 15 one is the actual invoice, without these changes. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Stand at ease here a minute till we 17 get where we need to be. 18 (Discussion off the record.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order. The 20 County Clerk wanted to go back to agenda Item Number 2. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 6. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Excuse me? 23 MS. PIEPER: 1.6, I believe. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: To 6; consider, discuss, and take 25 appropriate action approving trading in three eSlate machines 2-13-06 178 1 for a Disabled Access Unit and a Judge's Booth Controller with 2 Hart InterCivic. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, are we still -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that what we got? 5 MS. PIEPER: Yes. That was just faxed in a while 6 ago. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So we're still operating on 8 two different pieces of paper? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, now we're operating on three 10 different pieces of paper. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, good. 12 MS. PIEPER: The backup -- I realize your backup is 13 an invoice that I received January 26th, and now we're going 14 to work off this backup, this backup I just gave you, which is 15 a change order. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 17 MS. PIEPER: And I need this change order approved. 18 It now lists that we are trading in three eSlates, and it is 19 giving us credit for that. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: At $7,500 credit, which fits with my 21 numbers at 25 a copy. And it says add one eSlate and a 22 disabled assistance -- actually, access unit upgrade, which is 23 a $500 charge, on top, which that's a plus $3,000. That's -- 24 that squares. Add one 2,500 Judge's -- 25 MS. PIEPER: Judge's Booth Controller. 2-13-06 179 1 JUDGE TINLEY: -- Booth Controller. That number 2 squares. And then there are some other adjustments, and it 3 appears to me like they're going to give us an $1,890 credit. 4 MS. PIEPER: That is correct. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We're giving up three, they're 6 turning around and giving us one back with a $500 upgrade. 7 So -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That upgrade allows the 9 hearing-impaired to -- 10 MS. PIEPER: Yes. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- to hear all the 12 candidates, et cetera? 13 MS. PIEPER: That is what makes us in compliance 14 with the H.A.V.A. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, okay. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What? 17 MS. PIEPER: That is what makes us in compliance 18 with H.A.V.A. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Having just one of them 20 available, or all of them? 21 MS. PIEPER: No, we will have one in each polling 22 location. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And they'll all become -- 24 MS. PIEPER: And they are all A.D.A. complaint. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 2-13-06 180 1 MS. PIEPER: However, this will give me one for a 2 backup. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Jannett, I heard a question 5 earlier that I didn't know the answer to. How does this help 6 hearing-impaired? 7 MS. PIEPER: It doesn't, because normally they're 8 going to read their ballot. If they're hearing-impaired, we 9 have written instructions in English and in Spanish, and then 10 they can read their ballot. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Do we have any way of 12 knowing how many people are going to benefit from this 13 quarter-of-a-million-dollar solution? 14 MS. PIEPER: I have no idea. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Is it one at each polling 16 place, or a handful? 17 MS. PIEPER: I see several in early voting, but it's 18 not a lot. Not what I would call a lot. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I guess it doesn't make any 20 difference. If Washington says we do it, we do it. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tell me about if we don't do 22 it, quickly. What happens? 23 MS. PIEPER: Well, I -- 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There's a penalty? 25 MS. PIEPER: I received the original invoice 2-13-06 181 1 January 26th. I have it as backup on the first agenda item, 2 because that's all I had at that point. Now, if y'all approve 3 me to do this, to trade in the three eSlates and get the one 4 DAU, I use the Judge's internet user code and password. I 5 need to go in and modify the grant, and then I need to go in 6 and seek reimbursement using the Auditor's password and user 7 ID so we can get this invoice paid, because it's -- because 8 it's already -- it's dated January 26th, and if we don't get 9 it paid within a month, I don't want that 10 percent penalty 10 coming back on me. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That would be bad. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, we haven't paid the 13 272,162.50? 14 MS. PIEPER: No, we have not. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the numbers as you've presented 16 them here on this modified change order, when they wash 17 through, we would be entitled to an $1,890 credit, and based 18 upon the bottom line which they're now showing, that credit 19 would be -- would be reflected there. I -- I assume it 20 wouldn't be a problem getting it changed over at the Secretary 21 of State's office under that grant, but -- 22 MS. PIEPER: No. I talked to Jennifer Holliman. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Lesser funds. 24 MS. PIEPER: She's fine with it. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Do we need a motion? 2-13-06 182 1 MS. PIEPER: Yes, please. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What's the motion need to 3 do? 4 MS. PIEPER: To allow me to trade in three eSlates 5 and obtain one DAU and one JBC. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And receive an $1,890 7 credit? 8 MS. PIEPER: Yes. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'll make that motion. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 12 of the agenda item as indicated. Any question or discussion? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I will be -- well, we'll all 14 be with these nice folks next month at our convention, and I'm 15 going to give them a piece of my mind. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: And you're going to try and increase 17 our credit? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. I really don't want to 19 have anything to do with them, to be honest. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The Secretary of State or 21 H.A.V.A. people? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hart. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, Hart InterCivic. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Any or questions or comments? All in 2-13-06 183 1 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 2 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 4 (No response.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Anything 6 else, gentlemen? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's enough for one day, 8 Judge. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Now we're adjourned. 10 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 2:47 p.m.) 11 - - - - - - - - - - 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 2-13-06 184 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my 5 capacity as County Clerk of the Commissioners Court 6 of Kerr County, Texas, at the time and place 7 heretofore set forth. 8 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 21st day of 9 February, 2006. 10 11 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 12 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 13 Certified Shorthand Reporter 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 2-13-06