1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Regular Session 10 Monday, April 10, 2006 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 DAVE NICHOLSON, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X April 10, 2006 2 PAGE --- Commissioners' Comments 5 3 1.1 Consider/discuss approval of Proclamation for 4 National Day of Prayer 12 5 1.2 Consider/take action to approve contract between Kerr County and Mountain Home Volunteer Fire 6 Department for the long-term lease of 2.1 acres of land owned by Kerr County 13 7 1.4 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 8 request to install sign(s) at Flat Rock Lake Park 19 9 1.3 Consider/approve proposed Bylaws of the Advisory Board of the Butt-Holdsworth Memorial Library 28 10 1.5 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action for 11 Revision of Plat for Lot 60, Wood Trails Ranch, and set public hearing for same 33 12 1.6 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to award 13 annual bids for road base, cold mix, aggregate, emulsion oil, corrugated metal pipe, and equipment 14 by-the-hour 53 15 1.7 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to consider abandoning, vacating, and discontinuing 16 approximately 89.83 ft. of Drummund Drive, set a public hearing for same 56 17 1.8 Revision of resolution in support of Special 18 Prosecutor's application for renewal of VAWA grant funds for F.Y. 2006-2007, to include 19 language required by CJD 61 20 1.9 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on interlocal agreement between UGRA and Kerr County 21 that provides match funding required in TWDB contract for preliminary planning & engineering 22 for Center Point wastewater collection system 63 23 1.10 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to authorize Request for Proposals/Qualifications 24 process for consultants and registered engineers to provide basic and special engineering services 25 for Center Point wastewater facilities project 67 3 1 I N D E X (Continued) April 10, 2006 2 PAGE 1.11 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 3 hiring consulting engineer to review subdivision engineering documents 69 4 1.12 Consider/discuss responses to organization 5 development survey, plan an approach to identify changes in the organization of County's work that 6 will improve productivity and/or functioning 70 7 1.13 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action regarding restructuring the Kerr County Juvenile 8 Detention Center, including, but not limited to, personnel, salaries, and building configuration 89 9 1.14 Reports from the following Departments: 10 Animal Control -- Extension Office 90 11 Environmental Health 96 12 4.1 Pay Bills 99 13 4.2 Budget Amendments 100 4.3 Late Bills --- 14 4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 112 15 5.1 Reports from Commissioners/Liaison Committee Assignments 113 16 --- Adjourned 129 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 4 1 On Monday, April 10, 2006, at 9:00 a.m., a regular 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in the 3 Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville, 4 Texas, and the following proceedings were had in open court: 5 P R O C E E D I N G S 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me call to order this regularly 7 scheduled meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court 8 posted for this time and date, Monday, April the 10th, 2006, 9 at 9 a.m. It is that time now. Commissioner Baldwin? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. If you'll stand, 11 have a word of prayer with me, and then we'll do the pledge of 12 allegiance. 13 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: At this time, if there's any member 16 of the audience or the public that wishes to be heard on any 17 matter that is not a listed agenda item, we're happy to have 18 you come forward at this time. If you wish to speak on a 19 listed agenda item, we would ask that you wait until that item 20 is called. And it would help me if you would fill out a 21 participation form at the back of the room so that I don't 22 miss you when we get to that item. However, if you haven't 23 done that and you wish to be heard on that item, get my 24 attention in some way, shape, form, or fashion, and I'll give 25 you the opportunity to be heard. But right now, if there's 4-10-06 5 1 any member of the public that wishes to be heard on any matter 2 that is not a listed agenda item, feel free to come forward at 3 this time. 4 (No response.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Seeing no one coming forward, we'll 6 move on. Commissioner Baldwin, what do you have for us this 7 morning? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just wanted to say that I 9 had a good time through the 150th birthday functions that we 10 had. Got a little hangover from the city park, and I don't 11 even drink. But -- little bit wild for me, but it was great, 12 the whole thing; the parade, the governor and the older folks 13 out on the lawn and the whole thing was just fantastic, and -- 14 and I think that the old-timers were honored and the right 15 thing was done, and it was a great happy birthday party. If 16 anybody's looking for a sporting event to see this week, 17 tomorrow and Wednesday is the 27-4A district track meet 18 championship, and it'll be held here at Kerrville, Tivy, on 19 the brand-new nine-lane track. And it's a beautiful venue for 20 a track meet, you know, got all the new aprons and the finest 21 quality of field and all of that. So, tomorrow and Wednesday 22 is -- and I think there's one in Ingram starting today, but I 23 don't know for sure. But a great sporting event, and it's 24 happening right here in Kerrville, so I just want to remind 25 you of that. That's all I have to say. 4-10-06 6 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Commissioner Williams? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I just want to follow up on 3 -- on Commissioner Baldwin with respect to the 4 sesquicentennial activities. There's so many people to thank, 5 it's just incredible. I tried to make a list of them, and 6 particularly Joe Herring, Jr., for chairing the 150th 7 committee; and the Chamber of Commerce people, B.K. Cody and 8 Brian Bondy and his staff; Sue Steele and all the ladies that 9 worked with her in putting together the parade; Walter 10 Schellhase and the Historical Commission, Clarabelle Snodgrass 11 working on static displays at the Union Church; and Republican 12 Women of Kerr County, Janet Maltman, all the fine preparations 13 they made for the governor's luncheon. It really was a 14 splendid weekend, and what was great about it was to see how 15 many people participated. It really was neat. Had a good 16 time. Thanks to everyone who had a part in it. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Letz? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Echo what the first two said, 19 but one thing I would add is that a person left off -- or 20 entity left off is the City of Kerrville. They did a really 21 good job of getting that parade route set up and taken down. 22 I don't see how they did it so fast, really. I mean, I know 23 30 minutes ahead of time, all the traffic was flowing 24 everywhere, and 30 minutes after it was over, it was back all 25 flowing again. They did a good job of really organizing that 4-10-06 7 1 and having their departments out. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's true. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I noticed that. But other than 4 that, let's hope we get some rain. It's green, but it is dry. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. I just echo 6 everything everybody else said about the celebration. I'm 7 also reminded of how much volunteer talent we have in this -- 8 this community. They did a terrific job of organizing, 9 planning, and pulling that off. The big news in west Kerr 10 County, of course, is the fire. We had two pretty serious 11 fires starting on Friday. One started on the Hill Country 12 Youth Ranch west of Ingram, and spread -- got very close to a 13 residential housing area in Ingram, and thankfully, nobody was 14 injured there, or had -- no structures were -- were damaged or 15 destroyed. And then the bigger fire started Friday afternoon 16 on Cherry Springs Ranch. It's an old ranch that was broken up 17 years ago and sold off in 10-, 25-, 100-acre plots, populated 18 largely by hunters and campers, but -- so there's a lot of 19 little hunting camps back in there, and there's also some 20 million-dollar houses, so it's a hodgepodge. It's really 21 rough. It's behind -- the fire started behind the Guadalupe 22 Ranch Estates; you probably know where that is. You pass -- 23 the entrance is there on 1340 just before you get to Mo Ranch. 24 We don't know for sure what started both -- either 25 of the two fires. I've got some clues, and probably will 4-10-06 8 1 pursue -- be worth pursuing. The firefighters -- the Hunt 2 firefighters think that somebody burned a brush pile; that's 3 about the first thing they found when they got out there, was 4 a large pile of brush burned, so we may need to do some 5 follow-up on that. Those men and women worked about -- right 6 at 48 hours. Over 40 hours, I know. They were still working 7 Sunday afternoon; got out there Friday afternoon. When I 8 first got there, the first people I ran into, for example, was 9 a retired -- a guy about my age who was vice president for a 10 big company. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He's your age, you say? 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: God, what was he doing out 14 there? 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Fighting fire. And a woman 16 that's not much younger than me was, with all her protective 17 gear on, crawling up and down the sides of the ravine. And 18 some of the firefighters were having to -- we got the beast in 19 there, and they got close enough, some of them, where they 20 could get a hose to where the fires were, but it was down in 21 some really steep ravines. Quite a number of firefighters 22 were carrying water down there on their back. They have about 23 a 15-minute supply of squirting water, and climb back up the 24 ravine, get some more water. So, those men and women do a 25 terrific job for the county. 4-10-06 9 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, they do. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If I can follow up on fires just 3 briefly, the -- and I haven't decided if I'm going to put the 4 burn ban back on in my precinct or not. It's still not on, 5 but the issue isn't whether a burn ban was on or not on. 6 Those fires were illegal. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's right. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They were not -- when the 9 wind -- the humidity conditions and the wind conditions were 10 what they were last Friday, you can't burn in the state of 11 Texas, so -- under T.C.E.Q. rules. And I really -- you know, 12 I don't know; there may be a way to get some attention to 13 that. Maybe we can put it on the next agenda. I think I'll 14 have to have Rex kind of go over what the penalties are, and I 15 would really like to see our law enforcement people and the 16 County Attorney socking it to these people that do fires. I 17 don't care if there's a burn ban on or not; if they're not 18 following state law, I'd like to see some pretty big fines 19 levied, and maybe they'll quit doing this stuff. It's 20 ridiculous when you have, you know, 5, 10 percent humidity and 21 25 mile-an-hour winds, like we did last week, to be lighting 22 any kind of a fire. And, so -- you know, so the other side of 23 that is, under certain conditions right now, this may be the 24 best time to be burning. There's certain -- you know, certain 25 mornings, if you watch the weather closely, you have a little 4-10-06 10 1 bit of cloud cover, a little bit of drizzle. And that's why 2 I'm leaving it off in my precinct, because it's illegal to do 3 these fires -- start these fires that have been the problems, 4 and it's going to get worse, it looks like, before it gets 5 better, unless we get some substantial rain. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I was -- 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let me follow up a little 8 bit, Judge. Last Friday, we were under a red flag order, and 9 one opinion I've heard from over the weekend is that -- that 10 to cause a fire like this when there's a red flag alert on is 11 a felony crime. I don't know that that's right, but it's -- 12 it's certainly very serious. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that's another thing. The 14 burn ban was on in Precinct 4 when these fires started, so, I 15 mean, I think this burn ban issue -- certainly, we can draw 16 some attention to it, but it's not -- the fact that we say you 17 can burn has nothing -- is not -- state law has to be followed 18 either way. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think your point's a valid 20 point, but the problem is, while state law prevails and they 21 shouldn't have been burning in this particular instance, 22 people don't look that far. All they look to see is whether 23 the burn ban is on in Precincts 1, 2, 3, and 4, or whether 24 it's off. Nothing else makes any difference. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it was on in his precinct, 4-10-06 11 1 and they were still burning brush piles. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: To get to where the -- if 3 you're coming from Kerrville, to get to where the fire 4 started, you have to pass the Ingram Fire Department and the 5 Hunt Fire Department, and both of them have signs up that says 6 burn ban on, so I don't -- it'd be pretty hard to claim 7 ignorance. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I think the ignorance issue is 9 probably more prevalent here, irrespective of whether the -- 10 irrespective of whether there's a burn ban or not. What we 11 need to rely upon more than anything else is good judgment and 12 common sense. Even if there's not a burn ban in effect, 13 anyone with a modicum of common sense knows if the wind's 14 blowing 15 or 20 miles an hour, that's not a real smart move. 15 And if they've got any question about it, what they ought to 16 do is just pick up the phone and call a representative of the 17 local fire departments or law enforcement and say, "Hey, burn 18 ban's not on and I'm thinking about burning. Anything I need 19 to know about that?" It's probably more of a common sense 20 issue than anything else, and it's unfortunate that some 21 people don't -- don't rise to that. 22 And with respect to the sesquicentennial, as 23 indicated here this morning, there are a lot of people to 24 thank; of course, the lead organizations, the Historical 25 Commission, the Kerrville Area Chamber of Commerce, Mr. Bondy 4-10-06 12 1 and B.K. Cody, and, of course, the committee headed up by Joe 2 Herring, Jr. All of those people did -- did the lion's share 3 of the work, and the committees that they formed with them, as 4 indicated by Commissioner Williams, Sue Steele and, of course, 5 the Republican Women did a wonderful job at their luncheon. 6 Our own Maintenance and Facilities people did a -- did a great 7 job out here getting things ready for our celebration, the 8 kickoff on Friday afternoon, when the governor was with us. 9 And, of course, we're grateful to Grimes for furnishing the 10 tents and some hydration for the people that were there. And 11 we're really happy for all of those who participated. 12 Primarily, I was just ecstatic over the parade crowd; I think 13 it was far in excess of -- of anything we've had in any 14 parades here previously, at least that I've been involved with 15 for 35-plus years. And events down at the park went well, and 16 as Commissioner Letz said, we owe a lot to the City, too. 17 Their -- they provided a lot of law enforcement assistance. 18 Their Public Works people did an absolutely fabulous job with 19 their barricades and their -- and the work that they did in 20 all of these events through the entire weekend, and it was 21 just a huge, huge team effort that I think was a tremendous 22 success, and I thank everybody who participated. 23 Let's get on with the business at hand. First item 24 is to consider, discuss, and approve a proclamation for the 25 National Day of Prayer. I put this on the agenda at the 4-10-06 13 1 request of Reverend Fern Lancaster. This is an annual thing 2 that has occurred. Ms. Lancaster has asked that the 3 representatives of the Court participate in that, as they have 4 in the past, and I'm sure, assuming this is approved, she'll 5 be contacting the members of the Court to take part in this 6 ceremony. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 10 of the agenda item and the proclamation for the National Day 11 of Prayer. Any question or discussion? All in favor of the 12 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's go to 17 Item 2, if we might; consider and take action to approve a 18 contract between Kerr County and the Mountain Home Volunteer 19 Fire Department for the long-term lease of 2.1 acres of land 20 owned by Kerr County located on State Highway 27 in the 21 Mountain Home community. Commissioner Nicholson? Looks like 22 we're right on target, time-wise. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: This morning in your in-box 24 was the latest and maybe last version of the contract. So, 25 the one that was attached to your -- the agenda item there has 4-10-06 14 1 been changed some. Not -- not significantly, just tweaked. 2 But about two years ago -- less than two years ago, this Court 3 approved a contract to lease this property to the Mountain 4 Home Volunteer Fire Department, with some quid pro quo's, 5 particularly understanding that they would provide us with a 6 stable water supply for our Road and Bridge truck and provide 7 us an area to store materials. The -- the fire department 8 board never approved that -- the signing of that contract, and 9 myself and the County Attorney and the Road and Bridge boss 10 have met with the fire department board, I'd say about five 11 times over the intervening 18 months or so, addressing some of 12 their concerns, and recently they've developed some energy for 13 finding funds to expand and improve their -- their department. 14 So, they -- they've changed their strategy and now, instead of 15 just using the facility that we have there for parking some of 16 their vehicles and storing some stuff, they want to start from 17 scratch and build a new firehouse, and they think that they 18 can get grants and raise funds to do that. 19 So, the deal that we approved something less than 20 two years ago is changed, and the quid pro quo is -- what the 21 County will get is a stable supply of water for Road and 22 Bridge use. In earlier schemes, we were going to tap into one 23 of the neighbor's wells, and now they plan to drill their own 24 well. We have a large tank out there. I can't remember what 25 size it is. Len, is it 12,000? 4-10-06 15 1 MR. ODOM: 15,000. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: 15,000 gallons. And 3 they'll keep that full so that when -- they'll use it to fill 4 their trucks, and when we're out there working on roads, we'll 5 have a readily accessible supply of water. They'll fence in a 6 space that -- to store Road and Bridge materials, provide some 7 security for that. There's an asphalt tank on that property 8 that we use, and they'll keep that and maintain it. They'll 9 allow us access to the restroom facilities for employees in 10 the new -- new firehouse. In exchange for that, they get a 11 25-year lease with two 25-year guaranteed renewal options. 12 Essentially, we'd be entering into an agreement that would 13 provide them the opportunity to build on that and know that 14 they're going to be there for up to 75 years. So, I make a 15 motion that we approve the contract for the lease of 16 12.1 acres near Mountain Home to the Mountain Home Volunteer 17 Fire Department, and authorize the County Judge to sign same. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 20 of the agenda item as indicated. Any question or discussion? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Commissioner? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Go ahead. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is there any monetary 24 considerations here at all? 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No. 4-10-06 16 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is the -- this is to the County 3 Attorney. He's approved the form, and by that -- or he's 4 involved in this, so I presume that there's no problem with 5 the length of the term? It seems long, but -- 6 MR. EMERSON: That's up to y'all. It's a policy 7 decision. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's longer than we've done, but 9 I don't have a problem with it, really. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: The other considerations are, of 11 course, there's going to be a well on the premises that the 12 Department is going -- it will be obligated to drill within, 13 what, 180 days, I believe? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I didn't see that anywhere, 15 Judge. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Maybe that was in the earlier 17 agreement. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, there's -- I'm looking at 19 the older version. There is a version, "within five years," 20 the one that I'm looking at, Paragraph 2. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No, that's -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm looking at that. I didn't 23 bring in the newest version from my box. 24 MR. EMERSON: There's not any time requirements in 25 the current version. 4-10-06 17 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 2 MR. EMERSON: Up to y'all to put them in there. The 3 five years that Commissioner Letz is referring to is in the 4 version that was forwarded from the fire department. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. And they are going to build a 6 permanent structure there, which, of course, will -- will 7 revert at the end of the lease term and become part of the 8 property, so those two will remain with the property at the 9 end of that lease term, whatever it may be, 25, 50 or 75 10 years. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's the intention to do it 12 right as soon as they have the money to do it, and it's 13 probably more to their advantage to get that water supply than 14 it is to ours. They -- it's a very -- it's a nuisance for 15 them to get water in their trucks now, and this will make it 16 real handy. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is the term important to them, 18 to have it that long? 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 75 years? 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't know what the magic 22 number is; 50 years might be -- might be acceptable. The 23 issue is, they're probably going to have to go for some 24 financing, and whoever's going to loan them some money is 25 going to want to make sure that they have that facility long 4-10-06 18 1 enough to pay for it and amortize it. We want -- we're 2 discussing it in our negotiations. I said, "Well, 50 years is 3 quite a long time; won't any of us be left around here then." 4 And Tom Syfan pointed out that he's been a member of the 5 department for 50 years. He says it's not a long time. 6 (Laughter.) 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My only concern is that it's a 8 little bit of a longer precedent. I think a lot of our leases 9 are in the 40- to 50-year period. But I -- the reality is 10 that once that's used for this purpose, they're going to have 11 it as long as they want it, whether the term's 25 years or 75 12 years. So, it's more a precedent issue to me, but I don't -- 13 I don't have that big a problem with it if that's what they 14 feel they need. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Any more questions? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I was looking for the 17 reversion clause, Judge. I don't see that. Where is that? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Reversion? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. You mentioned it, and 20 I -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, of course, by law, any -- any 22 improvements that are affixed to the land automatically go 23 with the property at the end of the lease term, whether -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Irrespective of -- of whether you got 4-10-06 19 1 anything in the lease or not. Any other comments? All in 2 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's now go 7 to Item 4, if we might. Consider, discuss, and take 8 appropriate action on the request to install signs at Flat 9 Rock Lake Park. I put this on the agenda at the request of -- 10 of Mr. Bob Palmer. Is he here today with us? 11 MR. PALMER: Yes. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, there you are. Okay. 13 MR. PALMER: Thank you. I have some show-and-tell 14 that I'd like to -- would y'all like one of these? -- give to 15 each one of the Commissioners. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just hand them all up and 17 I'll pass them around. 18 MR. PALMER: Okay. See if there's enough. Missing 19 one? 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thank you. 21 MR. PALMER: My name is Robert Palmer, and I -- 22 actually, I think I live in Precinct 3, but I utilize the park 23 that's in Precinct 2, which is Flat Rock Lake Park, I believe. 24 And, like I've said, I discovered this park after I'd been 25 here only 15 years, and one of the reasons is I didn't know it 4-10-06 20 1 was there, even though I probably passed by it. What I'm 2 suggesting is that there be a park sign be placed there which 3 would inform the public just exactly, one, that it's Kerr -- 4 that it's Flat Rock Lake Park, and it's also a Kerr County 5 park. And I don't believe there are any signs on any of the 6 Kerr County parks or -- and I'm suggesting that that would be 7 a really good thing to do to improve the -- it'd be a good 8 P.R. thing and enhance overall the -- Kerr County. If you 9 look at this picture, there is the main entrance to Flat Rock 10 Lake Park, and it's a beautiful setting along the river. And 11 you -- one reason you know it's a park is 'cause it says, "No 12 Overnight Camping. Deputy Checks," so that gives you a pretty 13 good idea that you're going into a park and you better not 14 stay overnight. 15 So, what I am suggesting -- and there's an idea for 16 a park -- a sign that I put -- that I made up myself, and as 17 you can see at the bottom, I tried to indicate exactly some 18 characters there who were doing the things that most people do 19 in Flat Rock Lake Park. There's a person there walking their 20 dog; there's some people there who are there with their own 21 barbecue pit making some hamburgers, and then the fishermen -- 22 the fishing and the boating. And people come there and just 23 hang out or enjoy the park, but those are -- these are what 24 I've observed have been the main activities in the park. So, 25 that's just an idea for a sign. So, if y'all see that big 4-10-06 21 1 tree right at the beginning on the left, right behind the 2 sign, I thought that that would be an ideal place to put a 3 post up and put a sign, perhaps a wooden sign that informs you 4 that it's Flat Rock Lake Park, and it's Kerr County. It would 5 be well out of the way of the traffic, and would be a nice -- 6 right under the arch of that tree would be a fine place for a 7 sign. One reason you know that's Flat Rock Park is there -- 8 there is the flat rock. I think there might be two or three 9 right there at the entrance, and that is -- that makes it Flat 10 Rock Lake Park. So -- so, I'm asking y'all if you'll put a 11 park sign there. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Any -- any member of the Court have 14 any questions for Mr. Palmer? 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I got a question in 16 general. What kind of facilities do we have there? Do we 17 have boat ramps? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Restrooms? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not yet. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not yet. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They've been in the works for 24 years. 25 (Discussion off the record.) 4-10-06 22 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's a good idea. I 2 think -- and there's -- we should probably sign all our 3 parks, including the Lions Park and Ingram Park, to show that 4 they are Kerr County parks. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: They're used and 6 appreciated by locals. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's a matter of finding the 8 dollars to do the signage right now. Mr. Palmer and I have 9 talked about this before, and his first iteration had to do 10 with making the public aware that this is a dog-friendly park. 11 I see you've changed that somewhat from the first time we 12 spoke. 13 MR. PALMER: Well, I know that it's -- it's a 14 dog-friendly park, but it's not only a dog-friendly park. We 15 want to, you know, have everybody who wants to come to the 16 park to utilize it, and everybody share the park together. 17 And so -- you know, so this is just not one interest. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: My idea for signage is -- is 19 a wooden-type, probably cypress, which we'd carve into the 20 face of the wood boards what the park is and so forth. In 21 this particular case, however, I think any signage that we do 22 would have to call recognition to the fact that a lot of the 23 funding for improvements have come from the Lower Colorado 24 River Authority. They certainly deserve credit for their 25 involvement with this -- this particular park. Other parks 4-10-06 23 1 that the County owns and provides funding for improvements 2 have come -- have not come from L.C.R.A.; have come from the 3 County's general budget. Center Point, for example. And that 4 one needs to have its name changed and signage put up. I'm 5 not against signage. I just want to make sure that the 6 signage is correct and it's not misleading, and it gives 7 thanks to those who actually participated in the improvements. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My thoughts are -- I mean, I 9 think that what we can do right now, 'cause budget is an 10 issue, is to have a plaque similar to a street sign made for 11 all parks so people are aware they are Kerr County parks. I 12 think our sign machine should probably be able to handle that. 13 Leonard, is that correct? We can make a couple, put it on a 14 post? I think we can probably get that done within our 15 budget, and I think it's appropriate. I also think that this 16 park, which is kind of the crown jewel of the county parks 17 anyway, probably deserves a nicer entrance, and I think that 18 we might look at that, you know, maybe in the next budget 19 year, look at it. I think a sign is probably appropriate to 20 recognize L.C.R.A. They may even pay for it. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Never know. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And put up a little bit -- but a 23 little bit of that may be some sort of a rock. It's a flat 24 rock there; maybe we can incorporate it into it and do 25 something a little bit fancier at the main entrance. I don't 4-10-06 24 1 know if Mr. Palmer's aware; we're in the process, I think, of 2 installing a bridge across Third Creek, 'cause the park's also 3 on the other side of Third Creek, and somewhere in that area 4 may be a good location, make that more of the main entrance of 5 the park where it splits off in two sides. I think we have 6 some thought as to where the appropriate spot for a large 7 entrance -- larger entrance should be, but I think it's -- I 8 appreciate you coming forward and pointing out this 9 deficiency, 'cause I think it is -- we have neglected to sign 10 all our parks. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Williams has been the 12 one who's primarily taking the lead in areas relating to 13 parks, at least from the time that I've been here on the 14 Court, and it might be well if we -- if he'd be willing to 15 allow us to task him to kind of get together a preliminary 16 plan to handle that signage at all the parks, what his 17 thoughts are, and take a look at who's been responsible for 18 improvements at the various parks so that appropriate 19 recognition might be given, and maybe come up with a proposed 20 plan on how to do that. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's fine; we can do that. 22 MR. PALMER: So, are you suggesting that they just 23 temporarily put -- or not temporarily, but put up some signs 24 that are -- that would indicate that those are parks? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, similar to like you see 4-10-06 25 1 on the state park -- like on the state highway signs. 2 MR. PALMER: Right. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That just say, you know, "State 4 Park." Put up a "Kerr County Flat Rock Park" sign. 5 MR. PALMER: That'd be -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And maybe a couple of them. I'm 7 thinking, you know, one where you're speaking of, at that 8 entrance, and one further down where there's kind of another 9 entrance towards Third Creek; put one in both locations. 10 MR. PALMER: Maybe one right off the loop where it 11 comes in at Riverside -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 13 MR. PALMER: -- Drive, so people will know when they 14 can turn off the loop and get on -- 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's probably where a 16 metal sign on a post should be, would be there. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 18 MR. PALMER: Right. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, similar to more 20 informational-type signs, and that can be looked at, you know, 21 maybe next budget, or look for a source of funding for an 22 entrance -- you know, a little bit nicer sign for Flat Rock 23 specifically. We could probably -- you know, I would imagine 24 we could raise the money relatively easy in the community if 25 we, you know, didn't have it in our budget to -- I mean, we're 4-10-06 26 1 not talking about that much money, and through community 2 service workers or things of that nature, trustees, we could 3 probably build something using trustee labor. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I think what you've done today, 5 Mr. Palmer, is planted a seed that's probably going to result 6 in signage for all of our Kerr County parks, and we appreciate 7 you bringing those ideas to us. 8 MR. PALMER: Well, I'd really appreciate it if 9 you'll do that, 'cause I think the parks deserve it. All of 10 the city parks have it, and, you know, it would be really good 11 for the whole county. Some people just know the county from 12 those parks. They come off the highway, off of I-10, and -- 13 and I put out a flyer indicating that dogs -- people with dogs 14 can come over there at different motels and hotels, and so 15 you've got people coming there from all over the state, and 16 just stopping here sometimes because of that park. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Visitors to our city? 18 MR. PALMER: Visitors. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, that's great. I'm glad that 20 they're being made aware of that. If that makes it more 21 accommodating to our visitors, we certainly want that. 22 MR. PALMER: Well, there -- so when -- now, like, 23 when in the future do y'all deal with things like this? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, for a permanent solution, we're 25 probably going to be looking at some budgetary things, and 4-10-06 27 1 that's going to be coming up in the summer and on into the 2 early fall when we finalize those. The one thing I would 3 mention to you, Mr. Palmer, is that government is 4 frustratingly slow on occasion. 5 MR. PALMER: I understand. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: So, just bear with us. Like I say, I 7 think you've planted the seed, and I think we'll get there. 8 The timetable, I can't give you today. 9 MR. PALMER: Okay, thank you. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: I'd like to, but I'm sure I'd end up 11 getting a telephone call and saying, "You said this; why 12 aren't we there yet?" 13 MR. PALMER: Right. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: But I appreciate you coming to us 15 with the idea and planting the seed, and I think -- I think 16 we're going to go forward with it. 17 MR. PALMER: Thank you. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just one thing I wanted to 19 add. Since -- since the entrance to Flat Rock Lake Park is 20 Riverside Drive and it connects to two state highways, I would 21 imagine we could talk to TexDOT and get the road signage up in 22 a reasonable period of time. 23 MR. PALMER: That would be great. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The road signs. But I think 25 if I'm going to bring back a plan with respect to signing Flat 4-10-06 28 1 Rock Lake Park, Ingram Park, or Center Point, I'm going to do 2 so in a manner that would be a long-term sign, suitable for 3 each, that reflects the hill country, not just a metal sign 4 with plastic numbers and letters on it. 5 MR. PALMER: Right. Sounds good. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Something of permanency. Thank you, 7 sir. 8 MR. PALMER: Thanks. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: We appreciate you being here with us 10 today. 11 MR. PALMER: Thank you. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move to our 9:30 agenda item, 13 Number 3; consider and approve the proposed bylaws of the 14 Advisory Board of the Butt-Holdsworth Memorial Library. 15 Commissioner Nicholson? 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Interlocal agreement 17 between the City of Kerrville and Kerr County requires that 18 both governing bodies approve the bylaws of the 19 Butt-Holdsworth Library Board of Directors. And we -- the 20 bylaws were significantly changed in that the operation of the 21 Advisory Board was significantly changed, particularly to give 22 it a -- a direct role in formulating budgets. So, on -- on 23 the 13th of March, the bylaws were reviewed by this 24 Commissioners Court, and there was some concern about detailed 25 language in there that dealt specifically with definitions of 4-10-06 29 1 capital budget items and that sort of thing, so the Court 2 directed that it would like to see that "redundancy," I think 3 was the word that the Court used, removed from the bylaws 4 language that -- saying this agreement deals with that; that 5 needs to be dealt with in the language. And then on 6 March 27th, we had it on the agenda again, and we had revised 7 bylaws that had been prepared by the City of Kerrville and 8 approved by them, but the package inadvertently did not 9 include the revised bylaws, so it's back on the agenda again 10 for your review and approval, and I move to approve. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 13 of the bylaws of the Advisory Board of the Butt-Holdsworth 14 Memorial Library as presented. Any question or discussion? I 15 have one minor language issue. And the language that cleared 16 up the redundancy I think is appropriate, but when we mention 17 interlocal agreement, "in accordance with the provision of the 18 interlocal agreement," nowhere else in these bylaws is the 19 interlocal agreement referenced by that name, and so it's for 20 that reason. And in the second paragraph, the very end of it, 21 where it says, "by written contract between the two entities," 22 that that be referred to "by interlocal agreement between the 23 two entities," because then it will tie together. It's a -- 24 it's a technical thing, but that identifies what the 25 interlocal agreement is. I can't find "interlocal agreement" 4-10-06 30 1 anywhere else in those bylaws. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you proposing it's going 3 to say "between Kerr County and the City of Kerrville"? Is 4 that what you -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Or at the tail end of -- of the 6 Section 2 -- 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: -- of the interlocal agreement, you 9 can add, "between City of Kerrville and Kerr County." Either 10 way. That will tie it together. It's more of a -- more of a 11 housekeeping and reference situation more than anything else. 12 It has nothing to do with substance, but, you know, 25 years 13 from now, if somebody's looking at this, if it lasts that 14 long, they're going to say, "What is this interlocal agreement 15 that we're referring to?" And we need to be able to tie it to 16 something else to identify it. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: How do you propose to 18 proceed from here? Do you want to send it back to the City of 19 Kerrville with recommended changes? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the logistics -- it's 21 unfortunate, but I think we need to tie those two together. 22 That's my feeling. The Court may have other feelings. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mr. Martinez? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, sir. Mr. Martinez? 25 MR. MARTINEZ: If I may make a suggestion, I can 4-10-06 31 1 prepare an agenda bill for City Council's next meeting. If 2 you will prepare your documents and let me have two signed 3 copies by Thursday, I can have that agenda bill prepared and 4 have your language presented to City Council. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: That would be at the second meeting 6 of this month? 7 MR. MARTINEZ: It would be the April 25th meeting, 8 but I need to get it in by the end of the week. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It would be a consent agenda 11 item for them, so they wouldn't have to spend much time on it, 12 I would suspect. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, our motion's going to 14 stand contingent upon us tying these words together? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: You know, I -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I mean, let's move forward 17 with it. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And get it over there. 20 MR. MARTINEZ: Well, what I'm suggesting is that you 21 can go ahead and approve your language, and let us have 22 written copies -- two copies with signatures, and I'll present 23 those to Council. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: You've got the -- the bylaws on disk, 25 I presume, and could make that change very readily and furnish 4-10-06 32 1 it to us? 2 MR. MARTINEZ: Yes. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Specifically, what language 5 are we adding? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I would suggest in the second 7 paragraph, where it says, "by written contract between the two 8 entities," to have it read, "by interlocal agreement between 9 the two entities," and I think that'll solve it. And then 10 that'll tie back. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'll amend my motion to 12 include the revision that Judge Tinley just referred to, and 13 to authorize him to sign the -- well, we don't sign this. I 14 just -- the motion's to approve the agreement with that change 15 to add -- change "written contract" to "interlocal agreement." 16 JUDGE TINLEY: And your second -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My second stands, yes, sir. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Any further question or 19 discussion? All in favor of that motion, signify by raising 20 your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: If you'd be kind enough to run those 25 bylaws with that change, and then we -- the clerk can get you 4-10-06 33 1 a copy of the court order to attach to that, and you can carry 2 that to the Council. 3 MR. MARTINEZ: Okay. And the agreement with your 4 language also? I'll need that. You approved it at your last 5 meeting with your language. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 7 MR. MARTINEZ: But I need a written copy with 8 signatures of that also. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay. 10 MR. MARTINEZ: Okay? 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Right there. 12 MR. MARTINEZ: Thank you. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else on that particular 14 agenda item? Let's move forward, then, to Item Number 5; 15 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action for the 16 revision of plat for Lot 60 of Wood Trails Ranch, as set forth 17 in Volume 4, Page 98, and located in Precinct 4, and set a 18 public hearing on that. 19 MR. ODOM: Yes. Good morning. May I ask -- I will 20 have Truby get with Commissioner Williams, I guess, on the 21 wording for these -- for the parks that you want -- want to 22 put on a sign. Am I correct in that assumption? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let's meet and talk. 24 MR. ODOM: Okay. Lee Voelkel has requested this 25 revision of plat be done in the alternate plat process. It is 4-10-06 34 1 up to Commissioners -- to the Commissioner of the precinct to 2 make that decision, and Commissioner Nicholson has agreed to 3 his request to have this alternate plat process. If I'm 4 interpreting the new rules correctly, these are the items that 5 need to be considered by the Court. One is the lot size. An 6 existing subdivision within a community water system which is 7 approved by T.C.E.Q. is allowed to divide until it reaches an 8 average of 3 acres, with the smallest lot being 1 acre. Wood 9 Trails is 506 acres, and currently has 125 lots in it, giving 10 them an average of 4.04 acres. This additional two lots will 11 make it 3.98 acres. This revision of Lot 6 is acceptable if 12 they use the Wood Trails water system. However, Wood Trails 13 water is not currently approved for any new water connections, 14 and -- but may be in the future. 15 With this agenda item, we sent you the letters that 16 we had from -- I think from the water system to Lee saying 17 that -- I thought they implied that it would be this month, 18 sometime in April, they might get a decision from T.C.E.Q. to 19 upgrade their -- their property. Also, you have a letter from 20 Headwaters from Mr. Williams -- Gene Williams, and in relation 21 to that, the possibility of drilling a well for a 5-acre 22 tract. Headwaters' current rules still support the 5-acre 23 rule. Therefore, you should approve this -- should you 24 approve this plat, the landowner will not be allowed to drill 25 a well without a variance. O.S.S.F. has approved this plat. 4-10-06 35 1 All lots meet the lot frontage of 150 feet. Two of the 2 proposed lots are in the special flood hazard area, and the 3 finished floor has been set on each lot. 4 There's a structure on Lot 60, as shown on the 5 aerial photograph, and it will be shown on the final plat. 6 Lee has already made -- addressed that, but I didn't think it 7 was necessary till the final plat. And the date for the 8 public hearing is May the 22nd, 2006, at 10:30 a.m. So, the 9 Court needs to consider whether or not you would go to this 10 alternate plat process, and I would assume that on -- the idea 11 is that if they couldn't -- and correct me if I'm wrong, but 12 if the water system is not updated to put them on, I guess 13 that they propose to drill a well on 5 acres as it is now, but 14 if you subdivide this, I would assume that it would be a -- an 15 agreement. It would not be a water system, because it's not 16 15 connections. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you a question. 18 The new rules say 3-acre average. 19 MR. ODOM: 3-acre average. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And that is based on -- 21 MR. ODOM: Community water system. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- water availability, for 23 the lack of better words? 24 MR. ODOM: Right. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And we don't know, today, 4-10-06 36 1 whether they -- T.C.E.Q. will allow the existing system to add 2 on more hookups, and we don't know if they're going to drill a 3 well? 4 MR. ODOM: That's right. And I have -- 5 Mr. Voelkel's here -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Stop, stop, stop. How can 7 we -- how can we approve a plat when we don't know where the 8 water's coming from, period? 9 MR. ODOM: I don't know. That's -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I mean, just -- I'm not being 11 argumentative. I just -- that's a question that needs to be 12 answered for me. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let me ask Lee. Isn't 14 there currently a water well on this property? 15 MR. VOELKEL: Do you want to come up, too? Let me 16 introduce to the Court Mr. Joe Siff. He's from Houston. He's 17 the owner of the property. And either one of us -- you go 18 ahead. We'll address that. 19 MR. SIFF: Well, gentlemen, the answer to your 20 question, there is a -- a very shallow well on the property 21 now, but we have a permit to build -- to build a much deeper 22 well, and that's what we would do if the Wood Trails water 23 system weren't allowed to increase its size. But, according 24 to the owner of the system, they've been verbally told that 25 they will be approved, and they should be able to start work 4-10-06 37 1 in the summer, but I have a choice either way. I mean, if 2 they are approved, I can elect to use the Wood Trail water 3 supply system, or I could drill a well. Frankly, at this 4 point, I probably will drill a well if I'm approved. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, are you -- are you -- 6 MR. SIFF: I have a permit. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're basing your decision 8 whether to wait on the State to move or drill a well on what 9 we do today? Is that -- 10 MR. SIFF: Sure. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I see it the other way 12 around. I see our -- us making a decision on whatever you do. 13 MR. SIFF: Well, I have a permit -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the way I see it. 15 Show me where I'm wrong. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think I -- I looked at our 17 rules and how -- you know, trying to -- you know, what our 18 rules say is a plat note goes on here that says no individual 19 water wells will be drilled on any of these three lots, 20 period. If they -- if you choose to drill a well and put in a 21 small community system, then that would not be an individual 22 well, and you can do that, but you're going to have to get 23 a -- you know, do an agreement for a community water system. 24 But it'll be a -- you can use your personal community water 25 system or you can use your -- T.C.E.Q. or Wood Trails' water 4-10-06 38 1 system, but you cannot use individual wells. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Looking at it from the 3 water availability standpoint, there's a well there now that 4 is inadequate. He wants a better well. He's going to abandon 5 that well, drill a better well, so there will still be the 6 same amount of wells. One now, and there will be a 7 replacement. Under our rules, I think it is okay for one well 8 to serve three properties. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, but they have to do -- they 10 have to form a -- do a -- it'd basically be a water system. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Joint well agreement. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Joint well agreement. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: It wouldn't qualify -- it wouldn't be 14 required to be registered with -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: -- the State? Or -- 17 MR. ODOM: Doesn't have 15 connections. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: I think it's got to exceed five 19 connections before that's -- is it 15? 20 MR. ODOM: 15. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Is that sort of agreement 22 Commissioners Court business? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: No, that's a private, civil matter 24 between the owners. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We have other properties 4-10-06 39 1 where water wells are shared. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All we need is a plat note that 3 says no individual water wells, period. Now, you know, that's 4 just -- you're going to -- that tells you and future owners 5 that they're going to have some sort of water system, whether 6 it's a small one or a part of the Wood Trails. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I certainly agree, they 8 can't drill two more -- three more wells. They can only drill 9 one replacement well. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think, actually, we have 11 language in the Water Availability Requirements as to what 12 that plat note should say. It's fairly simple. 13 MR. VOELKEL: My question would be, he's already 14 permitted for one well on a 5-acre tract. We put that on one 15 of those tracts, and then the note says that no other wells 16 will be on any other tracts. Is that my understanding? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's a -- well, if 18 they're -- it's not an individual water -- he's not drilling 19 an individual well. It's -- he's drilling a community well. 20 Our note says no individual wells. Now, if it's a 5-acre 21 tract, -- 22 MR. VOELKEL: I hear you. Yes, okay. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- if he leaves it as platted, 24 then it's -- you know, it's not an individual -- it's an 25 individual well, but it meets minimum requirements. Now, you 4-10-06 40 1 can't -- what you couldn't do is -- I don't know why you'd 2 want to do it anyway, but you can't do this revision and then 3 drill individual wells -- an individual well. It has to be a 4 community well. 5 MR. SIFF: Sure. And that would be the purpose of 6 getting the revision to do a community well? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 8 MR. SIFF: If Wood Trail water supply didn't get 9 what it expects to get. For the Commissioners' information, I 10 don't intend to need a community well, or need additional taps 11 for at least six months, if not a year or so. I have -- my 12 son and I have one house on the property now. My intent over 13 time is to build a second house for my daughter, and a third 14 house, ultimately, if there's any money left over, for myself. 15 I figure in the meantime, one of the two of them will let me 16 stay with them, you know. (Laughter.) 17 MR. VOELKEL: Hopefully. 18 MR. SIFF: Yeah. I've got my fingers crossed. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. So, we -- 20 MR. SIFF: That's my plan. 21 MR. ODOM: But my understanding would be that he 22 needs to drill the well now under the 5 acres without platting 23 this? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, there's just a plat note 25 needs to be on there, no individual wells -- water wells. And 4-10-06 41 1 that will -- they can do a community well. 2 MR. SIFF: Yeah. The only reason I'd drill a well 3 would be for it to be a community well. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How does -- how does the 5 memorandum from Mr. Gene Williams of Headwaters fit into the 6 equation here, where he says once a well is drilled on the 7 property, the current Headwaters GCD 5-acre rule should be 8 enforced by Kerr County replating. This scenario would not be 9 acceptable to Headwaters under present rules? 10 MR. ODOM: Well, sir, I have Mr. Williams here now. 11 And -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Back here. 13 MR. ODOM: Back here? Okay. Would you like to 14 address that, sir? 15 MR. WILLIAMS: I'll answer whatever questions you 16 have. When Mr. Voelkel first came to me, I related to him 17 that the current rule is 5 acres to drill an individual well, 18 and he wanted to know about drilling a well and then 19 subdividing the property. So, I guess that comes under the 20 Court's jurisdiction. If you make it a community well, it 21 will no longer be what he's applied for, an exempt well. It 22 would have to be a permitted well. I guess our concern is on 23 just shared wells, we have no jurisdiction over shared wells, 24 and if you have ownership changes and the person on the lot 25 that has the well cuts the other two off, and then they come 4-10-06 42 1 to Headwaters and say, "We have no water," then we have no 2 choice but to allow them to drill another well. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But you could enforce our plat 4 note, which says no wells. I mean, you can -- you can enforce 5 our laws, so to speak. 6 MR. WILLIAMS: Well, if you get into a scenario 7 where they have no water, I don't think we can. I don't think 8 we can tell them they cannot have any water. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think we can tell them 10 through the County Attorney that they can't drill a well. I 11 mean, if it's our rules that they cannot -- there's a plat 12 note that says no individual water wells, I mean, I can see 13 civil -- I can see a lawsuit starting over that, but I don't 14 see how it is going to force another well to be drilled, 15 unless the District Court says it or something. 16 MR. EMERSON: My only comment would be -- and I 17 think this is what Buster was saying, is that your Subdivision 18 Rules say that you can't subdivide unless you have water 19 availability, and you're subdividing, but you do not have any 20 water. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. 22 MR. EMERSON: Through either way at this time. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So he has to decide. 24 MR. EMERSON: Which I think is the same thing that 25 Headwaters is saying. 4-10-06 43 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, they need to -- he needs to 2 decide how he's going to do it, and then put a plat note on to 3 that effect. 4 MR. EMERSON: I'm not sure how you can subdivide and 5 stay under the rules if you don't have any water, which is the 6 situation they're in. 7 MR. WILLIAMS: We've issued the application -- or 8 the authority to drill on the 5 acres, and if he changes that 9 prior to drilling, then the application will not be good. You 10 know, it will have to be -- it would have to be an exception 11 from the Board to allow him to drill, like, on 2 acres or 12 whatever that division would be. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, I mean, I think -- I guess 14 -- I understand that, but I'm going back -- well, he can 15 revise his application and make a small community system. The 16 issue that I would say, though, is that, you know, you said 17 that what if he cuts off water to those two lots. Well, what 18 if T.C.E.Q. cuts off water to someone 'cause they won't pay 19 their bill, and those people come to you to drill a well? 20 It's no different, whether it's a public system or a -- I 21 mean, a small public system or a big public system, to me. 22 MR. WILLIAMS: Well, I don't know. If they're 23 already tied onto a public water system, then that's a whole 24 different problem. If you've got a house on a lot that has 25 absolutely no access to water other than drilling a well, then 4-10-06 44 1 I think Headwaters will be bound to allow a well there. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: If I'm hearing what you're saying, 3 sir, the -- what you see chronologically is that this property 4 owner drills his well on his 5 acres under your permit, then 5 comes to this Court and says I've got the water availability 6 requirement satisfied by virtue of a joint well agreement that 7 runs with the land for the benefit of each of those owners, 8 whoever they may be from time to time, where their rights are 9 set forth in a document in the public Real Property Records, 10 and that along with the request for the platting that 11 otherwise satisfies our rules. Is -- is that what I'm 12 hearing? 13 MR. WILLIAMS: (Nodded.) 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, the individual needs to 15 decide how he's going to do it first, do the revision or -- or 16 apply for a community well, and then come to us for the 17 revision and have a community well as part -- you know, 18 approved. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Wherein the joint well 20 provision contracts come in play? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: That -- that's his responsibility 22 with the private landowners. That's a civil matter between 23 the owners. And it's not a particularly complicated one, but 24 it's one that needs to be done. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where are we with the water 4-10-06 45 1 system? Have we applied to T.C.E.Q. to expand? Lee? 2 MR. SIFF: I can tell you what the owner and the 3 owner's operator have told me verbally. Neither of them would 4 put this in writing, although they did sort of -- Mr. Mayhew 5 did, sort of. He said in his letter that he expects approval 6 from that organization that you just mentioned in the month of 7 April, and assuming approval, he would start the work on the 8 expansion of the water system in the early summer, June or 9 July. And I don't know how long it would take him to get 10 increased capacity, but at whatever time he got increased 11 capacity, then I would have a choice, I believe, if I had the 12 replatting done now, of using water from his -- applying for 13 two additional taps from his system. And we have an example 14 of Lot 56 -- I'm Lot 60 -- which is virtually contiguous to 15 me, that subdivided into four or five sub-lots. I'm asking 16 for three. And -- and each -- when there was capacity from 17 the water supply, Wood Trails Water Supply Company, they 18 each -- each of these smaller approximately 2-acre lots got -- 19 got a tap. 20 So, one concern I have is, if I don't get a 21 subdivision now -- and the subdivision we've applied for would 22 make an average for the entire deed-restricted -- you know, 23 the whole Wood Trails Subdivision, the average lot size 24 becomes 3.9. As -- as the gentleman, Mr. Odom, stated, you 25 know, I don't -- if you drive out there, there are lots of 4-10-06 46 1 people with less than 1-acre lots, and I don't know how many 2 more will come to you or -- or independently decide, whatever 3 process takes place. I don't want to be left high and dry if 4 the average size gets below 3 acres, and not be able to do 5 this just for my own family. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we can -- we can set a 7 public hearing today, but you're going to have to have the 8 water issue resolved one way or the other before we do a final 9 plat. We can do the public hearing in 30 days, and if you 10 have permission from Wood Trails to add on, then that will -- 11 then we can -- that solves it. And if not, you have to have 12 an agreement and apply for a community well through 13 Headwaters, and have that agreement in place. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It just seems to me the 15 simplest way to do this thing is -- is go with the -- the 16 water company that's out there now. 17 MR. SIFF: And I intend to do it as soon as they 18 have capacity. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So you don't have to deal 20 with hardheads like Gene and Buster Baldwin and those nuts. 21 And, to me, it's a lot easier to do. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let's go ahead and set the 23 public hearing. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's do it. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 4-10-06 47 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And things may clear up 2 more by that time. And they still haven't given final 3 approval. So, I'm going to make a motion we set a public 4 hearing on the revision of plat for Lot 60, Wood Trails Ranch 5 Subdivision, for 10 a.m., May 22nd. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I second it. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to set a 8 public hearing for the revision of plat for Lot 60 of Wood 9 Trails Ranch at 10 a.m. on May the 22nd of this year. Any 10 question or discussion? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a brief comment. This 12 is just really for Mr. Voelkel, so I don't have to call him 13 later. We are looking at some additional -- there was a 14 revision made in 2003 in the Subdivision Rules, the state law. 15 We're looking at that to see -- there's some question about 16 whether that really applies to Kerr County, and that may make 17 this process easier on some of these revision of plats, and be 18 able to get rid of public hearings, but still have to go 19 through the same process, not really save any money. It will 20 save the County, not -- well, it's not going to probably save 21 the landowner or the developer any money, but will save the 22 County possibly money from having to do public hearings all 23 the time. But we're looking at that; Rex and I are looking at 24 that. That's just a comment before Lee leaves. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I've got a question for 4-10-06 48 1 Commissioner Letz, our water guru. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I should be quiet. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I've talked to some other 4 water gurus about this. The reason for restricting the number 5 of lots in a subdivision under the average size is, in our 6 part, water conservation, protecting the aquifer. What 7 difference does it make if three residences are using one well 8 or three different wells? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think you get into a -- a -- 10 the more penetrations into the aquifer, the higher the 11 likelihood of problems, of damaging the aquifer. And also, 12 you get into usage, things of that nature. You have septic 13 systems that can leach into it. So, I mean, we've kind of 14 taken a policy that fewer wells are better. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, it's science. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Within a -- yeah, it's a reason 17 to do it. Rather than have a well every acre, it's better to 18 have one well every 10 acres. 19 MR. SIFF: At the risk of seeming like I want to 20 lengthen this hearing, and I don't, I -- I want to make sure 21 you realize that my goal really is to just have one 22 penetration, and that's the deep well I want to drill. That 23 would be one well, but there would be branches to the other 24 two sub, you know, plots. And, frankly, real estate agents 25 and other residents have told me that this particular water 4-10-06 49 1 supply company has said a lot of things in the past that have 2 never come true. And there are many lots for sale, physical 3 pieces of property for sale in the subdivision that the real 4 estate agent is obligated to say up front to a prospective 5 buyer, "There's no water taps, and we have no idea when there 6 will be." 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's what we're saying. If 8 you decide to drill your own community well, it needs to be 9 noted on the plat that these lots are served by this community 10 system, and you can call it whatever you want. And that way, 11 anyone that -- down the road, there's some recourse that, yes, 12 there's a community water system, and here's the name of it, 13 and they're going to serve these plats. At least it would 14 give someone some civil action down the road if someone tries 15 to cut somebody off. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: If you didn't get the right warm, 17 fuzzy feeling from the community water supply people out there 18 that you're -- you have the appropriate assurances that you'll 19 have the number of taps that you need, I -- I think what you 20 may be looking at is spending some of your children's 21 inheritance a little bit early, instead of looking to the end 22 to see what's left, for you to drill a well to serve all of 23 you. 24 MR. SIFF: Well, that's my dilemma. If I -- I have 25 no debt on this property right now, frankly. And my goal is 4-10-06 50 1 to subdivide the property so that when I do get debt on the 2 house that I've spent a lot of money to build, it's just on 3 the land that's under that house, not on the entire land, so 4 that then I have two more pieces of land that I can build two 5 more houses on, and that's part of the thinking behind all 6 this. 7 MR. VOELKEL: Question. I'm not real clear. If he 8 decides to do his own well and do the shared with the other 9 lots, is the permit he has for that well adequate now, or does 10 he need a new -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't believe so. Headwaters 12 says it's not adequate. 13 MR. VOELKEL: Okay. He'd have to reapply for a 14 different type of permit? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, or would he? Before he plats, 16 if he goes ahead and drills a well now on his 5 acres, he's 17 good to go under your permit now. 18 MR. WILLIAMS: Yes, on the 5 acres. Yes, he is. 19 MR. SIFF: And then, if I do a subdivision of those 20 5 acres, I can reapply for a community -- or a branch system? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm not sure you have to. When the 22 well's in place, I think -- I think it's then a civil matter 23 to do a joint well agreement for the -- to run to the benefit 24 of the three tracts that you're asking to subdivide it into. 25 MR. ODOM: And you could make that decision before 4-10-06 51 1 this date, what you're going to do. Or you can -- 2 MR. SIFF: So, before the 22nd of May. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that that's 4 circumventing the rules a little bit, though. I think if the 5 intent is -- when you drill that well is to be a community 6 well, it needs to be permitted properly to start with. 7 MR. WILLIAMS: That's correct. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think you're -- that's, you 9 know, just -- I don't think that's ethical. You know, I don't 10 think it's a problem. I don't see how it's going to -- I 11 mean, maybe the fee's a little bit more. It probably won't 12 change the cost of the well particularly, but I don't know 13 what it -- I have no idea. 14 MR. ODOM: They can't -- it's not going to be a 15 water system, because it's not 15 connections. That's what 16 Gene is saying. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You can have a water system less 18 than 15 connections. It's just not regulated by T.C.E.Q. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Up to 15. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's still a water system, just 22 not regulated by T.C.E.Q. We have many in this county that 23 are less than 15 connections. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. Anything 15 or over 25 is T.C.E.Q. 4-10-06 52 1 MR. ODOM: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or 15 -- 14, whatever it is. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or discussion on 4 the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 5 your right hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's go 10 to -- 11 MR. SIFF: I'm confused on what the motion was, I'm 12 sorry. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: To set a public hearing. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To set a public hearing. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: That's all we've done at this point. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: May 22nd at 10 a.m. 17 MR. SIFF: No recommendation -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You have to decide what you're 19 doing prior to that date -- or prior to us taking action. 20 We'll do the public hearing, but then prior to us finalizing 21 it, you're going to have to decide if you're going to Wood 22 Trails or your own community system. 23 MR. SIFF: Okay. I don't know how I can decide that 24 before I have some idea of if and/or when Wood Trail Water 25 Supply will ever get additional plats, and then if they do, 4-10-06 53 1 whether they'd grant me to -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I don't think we can -- 3 all we can do is a public hearing until we know how water's 4 going to get to those lots. 5 MR. SIFF: And if I told you that I was going to 6 build the well, I'd have to build it before you could take 7 action? 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. All we're doing is a public 10 hearing right now, which is a requirement of the state law 11 that we do a public hearing before you can revise. 12 MR. SIFF: Okay. Thank you very much. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move to Item 6; consider, 14 discuss, and take appropriate action to award the annual bids 15 for road base, cold mix, aggregate, emulsion oil, corrugated 16 metal pipe, and equipment by the hour. Mr. Odom? 17 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. I thank y'all for the 18 opportunity to be educated on water. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's a continuing education. 20 MR. ODOM: Continue -- it will continue May the 21 22nd. What I have before you is our recommendations for 22 acceptance of the bids, and it is as follows: Wilson 23 Culverts, the corrugated metal pipe; Ergon for emulsion oils; 24 Martin Marietta for cold mix, black base; Vulcan Materials for 25 trap rock or paving aggregates. The equipment by the hour is 4-10-06 54 1 by Mr. Schwartz, who is the low bid, and we recommend as first 2 contractor, but to retain that option for the others in case 3 there's certain equipment that we need that's bigger sizes and 4 all. Also, that we recommend that Lucky 3 gets the base 5 material, our Type A, our limestone rock. We put out 23 bids 6 -- or we contacted 23 people, sent out the packages to 23 7 people. I think there were seven to eight that were in 8 materials, whether it was Type C material or Type A. We got 9 one bid there as far as material, and that was Lucky 3, but we 10 did send out 23 packets. We called each one of them to make 11 sure that the address was correct, that we didn't miss it, and 12 they talked to them personally, and so we sent it out. We 13 thought we had a -- we had pretty good bids. And -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where is Lucky 3? 15 MR. ODOM: Lucky 3 is towards Center Point, right 16 before you get into Center Point, to the left there. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just right -- right after 18 Sutherland Road going east. 19 MR. ODOM: Yes. There's that tractor place that 20 does -- Corky's, and then there's a tractor place, and right 21 past that is a road that leads back down in there a couple of 22 miles back. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Caldwell place. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The old Caldwell place on 25 the north side of the road. 4-10-06 55 1 MR. ODOM: Right now, we also recommend that there's 2 other places. I don't know why Jerry Wheatcraft didn't bid. 3 Walter Masters is out on 479. I've just been contacted by 4 Alan Keller Quarry; they have one out Harper Road. So, we 5 want that option to do that. And we certainly will use Lucky 6 3, but we still have by law that we can use other people up to 7 a certain point, and that has to do with location and trucking 8 and all. And even if I'd got that, I would have asked the 9 Court for multiple bids. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, you will use Lucky 3 if 11 they're the cheapest? 12 MR. ODOM: If they're the cheapest, they're the 13 closest in there, but we'll give them the opportunity to have 14 the first choice on it. But if I'm out there on 479, I 15 certainly don't wish to truck it from Center Point there. I 16 would go to Walter Masters out there. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move approval of the bid 18 awards as recommended. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 21 of the award of the bids as recommended by Mr. Odom. Any 22 question or discussion on the motion? All in favor of the 23 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 4-10-06 56 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Thank you, 3 Mr. Odom. 4 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to the next item, if we 6 might; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 7 consider abandoning, vacating, and discontinuing approximately 8 89.83 feet of Drummund Drive and set a public hearing for the 9 same. 10 MR. ODOM: I don't see Mr. Jons here. Do you, 11 Buster? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, I do not. 13 MR. ODOM: This is an item that came up last week, 14 and so I didn't get the chance to talk to Rit. He had left it 15 up here and talked to Buster, but this has to do with about 16 89 feet of road going into his boy's place right there. Rit 17 owns land, as well as his son owns property, and I've tried to 18 lay that out. It also fronts Lot 1 and 2 -- I'm sorry, Lot 2, 19 and Mr. Jons owns that, Lots 1 and 2. He also owns the one to 20 the left of Lot 2, as well as his boy owns up above. We have 21 no problems abandoning that. I had not had a chance to talk 22 to Rit, but on this -- on this plat for the property here, you 23 can see Paul Avery comes in within 23 feet of the corner of 24 Lot 1, and in Lot 2, there is a 30-foot private easement, and 25 we can -- and it's just on Lot 2. Our question would be -- or 4-10-06 57 1 mine to Mr. Jons would be, does anybody else have access -- 2 some type of access to -- to Drummund? Whether it's Paul 3 Avery or whether it's MacRae; I don't know. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I asked him that question, 5 and he told me no. 6 MR. ODOM: Okay. That would be the question I had. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd rather for him to say 8 that in here, but -- 9 MR. ODOM: If he doesn't, then, like I say, I -- we 10 have no problems. It's just 89 feet. The road turns back to 11 the left. It's of no use. It belongs to the property owners. 12 Mr. Jons owns the property around it. As long as no one has 13 access -- to my knowledge, from what he said to Buster, nobody 14 else has access. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Also, in the -- in his 16 petition to discontinue a road, a long time ago -- and we 17 haven't done -- we really haven't discontinued very much roads 18 in Kerr County through the last 20 years, but a long time ago, 19 when we were going to discontinue some footage like we're 20 talking about today, we would -- we would put a sign at the 21 beginning of the discontinued area and a sign at the end of 22 it. You know, somewhere in the law, it said that. But I 23 think there's a -- I don't know under what statute that is, 24 but there seems to be maybe a little bit of confusion over 25 which statute we're dealing with here. Do we -- and it seemed 4-10-06 58 1 to me that's what he was saying, or that's what he said to me 2 verbally, is that, you know, you all -- the County has to go 3 out and put a sign at the beginning of the -- the property and 4 at the ending of the property. And we used to do it that way. 5 But I think Rex doesn't think that way. And I -- and I'd like 6 to get that clear with us today, if we could, before we take 7 another step. Are we -- Rex? 8 MR. EMERSON: Well, my theory on this matter is that 9 when you have a general law like the Transportation Code, and 10 you have a specific code that addresses subdivisions, which is 11 the case here, 'cause you're in a platted subdivision, the 12 specific statute takes precedence. And because of that, I 13 think you have to follow the rules that you have adopted under 14 your Subdivision Rules to discontinue this section of road. 15 MR. ODOM: And that's 6.05.C, and it says that if 16 you abandon the -- the plat, or an easement or road, then 17 there is a procedure -- you go under B and C to do that. And 18 that's taken directly out of 232 Governmental Code. So, we've 19 always -- for 15 years, we've done that you have to put a 20 public notice for three weeks prior to that -- to that 21 abandonment. Now, Rit is saying 20 days, and I don't know 22 where that comes from, that he can post a petition. But this 23 is a platted subdivision. And, I mean -- 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And that brings my real 25 question here. Now, I'm ready to set a public hearing and do 4-10-06 59 1 something, but does Mr. Jons understand where we're coming 2 from? Does he need to understand? We don't care what he 3 thinks? We're just going to do it the way we think is right? 4 Or should we postpone this thing, or -- you know, I'm just a 5 little hesitant about doing something. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Your question is do we need to follow 7 both, I think. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Both our Subdivision Rules and some 10 more general provision of state law that may indicate you got 11 to put a sign out there. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, he's thinking one way. 13 I don't -- you know, I don't want to cram something down his 14 throat until we understand. Did you have a visit with him? 15 MR. EMERSON: I called him and left a message, and 16 did not get a return phone call. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why don't we set the public 19 hearing? We can act -- we can have the public hearing; they 20 can do their lawyer stuff and talk to each other. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Work out the details. That's 22 fine. That's what I'd like to do, but I'm just a little bit 23 hesitant of having -- having him thinking that we're doing one 24 thing, and we're really doing something else. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He needs to be comfortable we're 4-10-06 60 1 doing it the legal way. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He needs to get his chops up 3 and fall in line with government. 4 MR. ODOM: What are we proposing? Are we saying, 5 "County maintenance ends here"? Is that what we're proposing 6 to do? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. Buster's saying that under 8 the Transportation Code, we have to post notice on the segment 9 of road for "X" number of days that says we're abandoning this 10 portion of it. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I didn't understand that, 12 either. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the way it used to be 14 done. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And Rex is saying, well, that's 16 well and good if you're not in a subdivision. If you're in a 17 subdivision, we follow Subdivision Rules. 18 MR. ODOM: Follow Subdivision Rules. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move we set a public 20 hearing at 10:15 on May 22nd. 21 MR. ODOM: 10:15 or 10 o'clock? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 10:15. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Actually, I'd like to do it 25 about 10:13, just to -- you know, they stay -- 4-10-06 61 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that your motion? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It is my motion. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: And you want to make it -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 10:13, please. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: 10:13 it is. Motion made and 7 seconded to set a public hearing for discontinuing -- consider 8 abandoning, vacating, discontinuing approximately 89.83 feet 9 of Drummund Drive on May the 22nd, 2006, at 10:13 a.m. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, Judge. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Any question or discussion on that 12 motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your 13 right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's move 18 quickly to Item 8, resolution in support of Special Prosecutor 19 application for renewal of the V.A.W.A. grant funds from the 20 Office of the Governor, Criminal Justice Division, for Fiscal 21 2006-'07, to include language required by the Criminal Justice 22 Division. Yes, ma'am? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Before you launch into this, 24 I just have one question, and then I'm a very happy camper. 25 The word "revision," does that mean that we've changed 4-10-06 62 1 something since last year in the verbiage? 2 MS. BAILEY: Actually, you've changed something 3 since a month or two ago, when you actually approved this 4 resolution. There were two typographical errors on there that 5 needed to be fixed, but more importantly, what I did when I 6 brought it to you a couple months ago was just copy the 7 previous year's resolution which had been approved by them. 8 In the interim, I guess they've added the requirement for the 9 last two lines there in the resolution that says, "In the 10 event of loss or misuse of grant funds, the governing body 11 will return all funds to the Office of the Governor, Criminal 12 Justice Division." That, apparently, must be in there or they 13 won't approve the grant. So -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, that's a revision that's 15 added? 16 MS. BAILEY: That's what I added from a couple 17 months ago. Otherwise, you've already approved it all. The 18 other two corrections were I had a typo on the date in the 19 first paragraph, and I was told that what I had done 20 previously is put the last -- this current year's grant 21 application number on there, and they're giving us a new 22 number, which is going to be e-mailed to Judge Tinley sometime 23 very soon, and then he'll be providing that to me, and that 24 will be the new number. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move approval of the revised 4-10-06 63 1 resolution. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 4 of the revised resolution as presented. 5 MS. BAILEY: Thank you. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Any question or discussion? All in 7 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 8 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 10 (No response.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We'll move to 12 Item 9; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on 13 interlocal agreement between the Upper Guadalupe River 14 Authority and Kerr County that provides match funding required 15 in the Texas Water Development Board contract for preliminary 16 planning and engineering for the Center Point wastewater 17 collection system. Commissioner Williams? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Judge. There 19 currently exists an interlocal agreement between U.G.R.A. and 20 Kerr County with respect to the responsibilities of the 21 parties for the Kerrville South wastewater project. That was 22 pretty detailed; goes into a lot of things that at this point 23 are not necessary for the Center Point wastewater study, which 24 is partially -- will be partially funded by T.W.D.B. What 25 this proposed agreement does is memorialize what's taking 4-10-06 64 1 place; that the County has, in fact, received -- got favorable 2 approval of an agreement from T.W.D.B. for 50 percent of the 3 match required to do the study, and the U.G.R.A. is putting up 4 over $60,880, or 50 percent. And it talks about our 5 responsibilities as the contractor, which is required under 6 the T.W.D.B. contract. We are the contractor for making 7 certain that happens and so forth. This has not yet been 8 reviewed by the County Attorney, and if the Court moves 9 forward with an approval, I would ask that it be pending 10 approval pending his final review of it. 11 There are a couple places in the agreement that need 12 to be changed. I would look -- under 3c, on the third line, 13 it talks about, "Similarly, County agrees it shall have no 14 responsibility for payment..." That should be "U.G.R.A. 15 agrees that it shall have no responsibility for payment to the 16 engineering consultant(s)." By contract with T.W.D.B., we 17 would be the ones to do that. Mr. Buck called to my attention 18 also that the signature line on the last page should be 19 changed to reflect Ronnie Pace as president, as opposed to 20 Janet Robinson. So, those are the explanations. Ready to 21 take questions, or I would move -- move its approval pending 22 final review by the County Attorney. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I want to discuss it before -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: This proposed agreement is similar to 25 one that was provided in the earlier arrangement when U.G.R.A. 4-10-06 65 1 assisted with the Kerrville South wastewater project? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's different, Judge, and 3 it doesn't go into such things as ownership, which that 4 agreement goes into, construction, turning over the project to 5 U.G.R.A., and how they -- and then, finally, their dealings 6 with the City with respect to treatment of wastewater. This 7 merely deals with -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Preliminary engineering. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- preliminary engineering 10 and the requirements of the match and so forth, and doesn't go 11 beyond that. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My concern is that -- I mean, 13 unless there's a time reason that we have to do it today, I 14 would rather get a final version the County Attorney has 15 looked at before we vote on it. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We can do that. We are 17 under -- well, I guess we still have time. We're under a June 18 constraint to have everything signed and put together as a 19 package for T.W.D.B. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 'Cause I just -- I hate to have 21 things approved that -- while they're still working copies. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's assume for the moment that the 23 Court takes this up at our second meeting of this month. Is 24 there going to be adequate time for the U.G.R.A. Board to 25 staff it and work it and approve it before the deadline that 4-10-06 66 1 you're looking at? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mr. Buck, do you know the 3 answer to that? 4 MR. BUCK: The answer is yes. Yes, we can. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You still have plenty of 6 time for your Board and so forth? 7 MS. BUCK: We can accommodate that. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: If we can still get under the June 9 wire for T.W.D.B., that's fine. We'll send it down to the 10 County Attorney and get his point of view. Okay. Anything 11 further on that particular agenda item? 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I've got one question. 13 What is a regional wastewater facility plan? If I had one 14 here, what would I be looking at? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Regional wastewater facility 16 planning is how T.W.D. designates a certain pot of money, and 17 that money can be for either water or wastewater purposes. 18 That's more their designation than it is ours. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think your question is, what 20 are we -- what's the end result of this 120,000? What are we 21 going to get for 120,000? 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Will it show me all the 23 connections, for example? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What we're going to get is a 25 plan -- an engineering plan that will detail for us the -- the 4-10-06 67 1 whole scope of the project, territory. It will detail for us 2 the best options in terms of which way the effluent goes, east 3 or west. It will -- it will give us enough information so 4 that we can refine that down and know what the ultimate cost 5 to the ratepayer after hooking on should be per month and so 6 forth, all that detail. I misunderstood your question, 7 Commissioner. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything further on that agenda item? 9 We'll move to the next agenda item; consider, discuss, and 10 take appropriate action authorizing a Request for 11 Proposals/Qualifications process for consultants and 12 registered engineers to provide basic and special engineering 13 services for the Center Point wastewater facilities project. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This, too, is required. We 15 have to do RFQ's to find engineers or consultants willing to 16 move forward and do this work for us for the prescribed 17 amount, in accordance with the scope of work that was approved 18 by Texas Water Development Board. Grantworks has offered to 19 do the administration of the RFQ process for us pro bono, and 20 all I need is the Court's approval to get this process 21 underway. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I like that pro bono part. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Was that a motion? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll second it. 4-10-06 68 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 2 of the agenda item in accordance with the -- with the 3 materials furnished. Any question or discussion? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, I do have a question. Why 5 are they doing it pro bono? I mean, I know Grantworks is -- 6 we've done work with them before. They're -- I can't imagine 7 them doing it unless they're expecting something at the end of 8 this or at some point during the process. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, because they've done a 10 lot of work for us and have been paid for it. They don't 11 typically do work of this nature under T.W.D.B. It's a little 12 new for them. I think they'd like to do it. They've not 13 managed the process under T.W.D.B. guidelines in the past. 14 They also were probably anticipating future opportunities with 15 Kerr County. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, they're -- because of future 17 and -- past and future dealings, they're -- this will be a 18 good way for them to keep their foot in the door. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the way I see it. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments? All 22 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 4-10-06 69 1 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Item 11; 2 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on hiring 3 consulting engineer to review subdivision engineering 4 documents. Mr. Letz? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Brief comment before we 6 ultimately pass on this today. The -- I was hoping to have 7 some names to bring forward, or a way to approach this, 8 really, and I really don't have that finalized. The -- I've 9 talked with some engineers about this, and what I've come up 10 with is -- what I'm hoping to bring back next court is, one of 11 our adjoining counties has some engineers that do this basic 12 function for their counties, and trying to maybe bring that 13 engineer in on a contract basis. The reason I like that 14 approach is that it avoids any conflict or having local -- one 15 local engineer pointing the finger at another engineer, which 16 they're very reluctant to do. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. Great thought. Are 18 you talking with somebody in Kendall or Gillespie? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Gillespie. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good, I'm liking it more. 21 Good deal. Great thought. 22 MR. WILLIAMS: So, anyway -- and, again, I just 23 missed -- Wayne Wells is the individual, and we just have not 24 been able to hook up by phone to see if he has any interest in 25 pursuing this or not, so I have no idea. 4-10-06 70 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I like it. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So I'll bring that back at the 3 next meeting, hopefully. That's it. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything else on that agenda 5 item? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I need a break. I'm 7 having to think. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Be patient. Be patient, I'm going to 9 get there. You're reading my mind. I want you to know that 10 your mental telepathy is working very, very well. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And it's wearing me down; 12 that's what I'm trying to tell you. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: We are at the witching hour now, so 14 we'll be in recess for 15 minutes. Is that going to be 15 adequate? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's pretty close. Pretty 17 good. 18 (Recess taken from 10:31 a.m. to 10:47 a.m.) 19 - - - - - - - - - - 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order, if we 21 might, and get back to our agenda. Item Number 12, consider 22 and discuss the responses to the organizational development 23 survey and plan an approach to identifying changes in the 24 organization of the County's work that will improve 25 productivity and/or functioning capability. Commissioner 4-10-06 71 1 Nicholson? 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I put this on the agenda 3 just so we could discuss a path forward about what we're going 4 to do about the information we collected. I don't expect 5 we're going to make any decisions today about how we might do 6 things differently. I gave each of the members of the Court 7 a -- a document that I prepared, just going through them, that 8 had ideas about big pots of organization functions, how -- how 9 things could be grouped together. I did that from a point of 10 view of, if this wasn't our 150th birthday, if we were 11 starting up Kerr County tomorrow, would we organize our work 12 like it's organized now? The answer is probably no. It's 13 evolved over time and you've picked up different things, and 14 it's a bit of a patchwork organization. So, I -- I went 15 through the various functions of work that are performed in 16 the county and classified it into basically six different 17 buckets of work that has -- has some similarity in function, 18 and then tried to place each of those in those categories. 19 The first one I called Code Enforcement, and that's 20 one -- I don't pretend that these are accurate or the way that 21 you would sort things out if you were starting from scratch. 22 It's just a document that might stimulate some thinking about 23 opportunities for doing things different. So, when you look 24 at the work that's done in terms of the function, being 25 enforcing court orders or laws, you include, for example, 4-10-06 72 1 O.S.S.F., Solid Waste, Animal Control, subdivision rules, 2 floodplain rules, perhaps county engineer work. And then I 3 went on with the category of General Administration, Law 4 Enforcement, Buildings and Maintenance, Financial 5 Administration, Judicial, and some miscellaneous functions. 6 Here, again, they're -- sorting things out that way is not the 7 start of a proposal or a recommendation to do anything 8 differently. It's just a document that might stimulate our 9 thinking about how we can better organize our work. Really, 10 what I'd like to see come out of our discussion today is a 11 plan for where -- what we're going to do next. We got a lot 12 of information from supervisors and elected officials, and 13 what do we want to do with that information? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think one of the things I'd 15 like to see is that we've received surveys back about what 16 they're doing. I would like to put it out for the elected 17 officials and department heads to let us -- give us some 18 feedback back. And I see Barbara sitting in the audience, so 19 I'll pick on her. You know, she has her constitutional 20 duties, and then she has a bunch of other stuff that we've, 21 one way or another, got into that office. I don't know if it 22 was before her or after her, when you first came -- 23 MS. NEMEC: Before. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Before. Do those -- does that 25 make sense from your standpoint? I mean, is there an easier 4-10-06 73 1 way to organize? And I'm just kind of -- kind of thinking out 2 of the box on a lot of this stuff. I know we -- the Auditor 3 and that department reports to the District Judges. You know, 4 some of what they do, can they come under -- it seems we have 5 a real duplication there. I know we've got to follow the 6 state law, but the whole -- I've never really understood the 7 logic for Auditors being under District Judges. Okay. We -- 8 that's the law; we have to do it that way. But a lot of the 9 auditing function of paying bills and going through that, it 10 seems to me, could come out of the Treasurer's office. I 11 mean, it's just -- I don't understand what really -- so I'd be 12 really interested to hear from -- you know, because, to me, an 13 audit function is very different from what our Auditor is 14 doing, or our Auditor's office is doing. "Audit" means to 15 check to make sure things are done right. We pay all our 16 bills through the Auditor's office. Well, why? Anyway, so 17 that's the kind of thing that I look at as to -- you know, I 18 would like to put it out for other elected officials and 19 department heads to kind of say, do they see some things that 20 we could reorganize, reshuffle things a little bit? 21 MS. NEMEC: There are a lot of counties that have 22 the function of paying bills that the Auditor now has in our 23 county. And at one time, Kerr County was paying bills out of 24 the Treasurer's office. How it got switched around, that was 25 before my time; I don't know what the logic was for it. 4-10-06 74 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I'm -- it's a little bit of 2 a -- on that, the reason I brought that one up, it's a 3 little -- somewhat self-serving, I guess, from the Court's 4 standpoint, is that things under the District Judges, we don't 5 have a whole lot of control over. And we don't have a whole 6 lot of control over things in your office either, but we 7 probably have a little bit more control over how things 8 operate in your office than we do things that operate out of 9 the District Judges. And not that I want -- you know, and I 10 just think we need to kind of look at how things are 11 organized, and just the whole thing. I think now is a good 12 time to look at it. 13 The other thing, you know, a lot of the -- the 14 personnel side of it, you know, to me, there's no reason or 15 logic that it's in the Treasurer's department. I mean, that's 16 not a logical thing, in my -- that's an H.R. function; it's 17 not a Treasurer's function necessarily. But there's some 18 other things that we do that are probably more in that -- to 19 me. So, anyway, I'd just be interested to see what they think 20 about it, get some feedback from them. And, probably -- I 21 don't -- it's such a big topic; I don't know how you cover it 22 in a workshop and get something meaningful done. But also, I 23 know everyone's busy, and just by putting it out, asking for 24 them to give us feedback, they probably don't have the time 25 and likely won't do it. 4-10-06 75 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, our questionnaire 2 asked for feedback, and we got -- we got some. Not -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Some chose not to answer. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maintenance had a -- go ahead, 6 Bill. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I just had a couple -- just 8 a couple notations here. I'm curious about it. I appreciate 9 Dave taking the time to study county government and its 10 organization, 'cause it's unlike anything else in our -- in 11 our life, however it's structured. But we've already -- and 12 we've made some departures, which I wonder how we get things 13 back together. For example, Dave shows subdivision and 14 floodplain under Code Enforcement. The reality is that it's 15 under Road and Bridge, and Road and Bridge is a separate 16 department totally from Buildings and Maintenance. The 17 Auditor and the District Courts are linked because the 18 District Courts', I guess, appointment of the Auditor is a 19 check-and-balance type function, which the District Courts, by 20 state law and Constitution, becomes a check and balance on our 21 budgetary and -- and things we do, and so I'm curious about 22 that. I'm also curious about Juvenile Probation, as to 23 whether or not it is under law enforcement, or does it fall 24 under judicial? And then I note that voter registration, 25 which is an important thing, must -- unless I missed it, I 4-10-06 76 1 didn't see it there, and that -- that falls under Tax 2 Assessor/Collector. Just some notes. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: One of the things that 4 organization experts look at when they look at organizations, 5 the cost of management, and they usually measure things like 6 span control; what's the average number of employees reporting 7 to a supervisor? So, if one organization's got 14 reporting 8 to a supervisor, and the other one's got seven, well, the cost 9 of management might be twice as -- twice as much. And the 10 other one is levels of management; do you have different 11 levels of supervision you can -- when you can do it with two? 12 And then the third thing is whether or not you ought to be 13 doing the function at all, and that's where outsourcing comes 14 in; things that can be done better and less expensively by 15 somebody else, they should be done that way. So, when you -- 16 when I group them into these large organization buckets, I can 17 see that we -- compared to some organizations, we've probably 18 got too many chiefs compared to the indians. And, again, a 19 whole lot of that's driven by -- by state law. You have to 20 have one of these and one of those, and so you're limited to 21 what you can do. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, as Commissioner Williams said, 23 the anomaly of organization of county government puts some 24 mandates on us to -- that are a given start point, and that 25 may not comport with using the normal management practices or 4-10-06 77 1 personnel management or structuring of function like you're 2 attempting to do here. You're basically coming with a 3 function-based breakdown, but I think the start point 4 necessarily is, as the -- as the survey went out, what are 5 your -- what are your constitutional duties in this 6 department? And that's a given, and you can't change the 7 model there. You've got to start with that, because state law 8 mandates that or Constitution, one or the other. 9 But then, beyond that, you get to look at 10 functionality. Which is -- which makes better sense? Which 11 flows better? Commonality of function, things of that nature, 12 and that gives you a -- maybe some efficiencies that you don't 13 otherwise have if they're located somewhere else. But as to 14 the nonconstitutional or state law-mandated functions of each 15 of those offices, I would certainly be interested in what each 16 elected official or department head was doing now that they 17 feel is more appropriate somewhere else, and why they feel 18 that way. And, on the other hand, as to those 19 nonconstitutional or state law-mandated functions, what they 20 aren't doing now, but they feel like would be appropriate 21 because of function or -- or particular abilities that they 22 have within their office, would be more appropriate in their 23 office, and why as to -- as to that change. That's what I'd 24 really like to see, are those kinds of responses from those 25 two areas. 4-10-06 78 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I still -- I still think -- 2 and I think we're getting close to what we're trying to do 3 here. I actually have not been able to really capture your 4 vision on this deal, but there's some things I like about it, 5 and I think -- and my thinking is, I want to go a step outside 6 this box and include Commissioners Court, and my interest 7 is -- is constitutional duties. If we could list those things 8 that the Constitution says that we shall do, and -- and that 9 is to provide for the County Clerk and her office to run in an 10 efficient manner -- I can't remember how all that's worded, 11 but we're -- we're supposed to do all these wonderful things, 12 and then have the separate list of the things that we do do, 13 throughout the years that we've added on. As an example, all 14 the social organizations; Big Brothers, Big Sisters -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: CASA. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: CASA, all of those. You 17 know, all of those things that we do that are outside the 18 Constitution, and evaluate those things. I mean, 19 Constitution -- as the Judge says, you know, I clearly see 20 that that's not a debating point at all. We do those things. 21 But I think that we will see layers and layers of things that 22 we do and spend public money on that's just been laid on top 23 of our -- our duties, and I'd really like to see -- and I've 24 been talking about this for years. I'd really like to see us 25 sit down and evaluate all of those things and see what we can 4-10-06 79 1 live with and what the taxpayers -- I think we've come to that 2 point financially, I really and truly do, of what the 3 taxpayers can -- what can they afford? That's the question. 4 We'd love to do lots of things, but what can you afford to do? 5 And I think that this county is at that point. What can you 6 -- what can we afford to do? And look at those things that 7 are outside the Constitution that we do, and see what we can 8 live with and what we can live without. That's what I'd like 9 to see. 10 I don't think that there is -- in the County Clerk's 11 office, I don't think that they do many things outside the 12 Constitution at all. I think probably Barbara does, because 13 she's been asked to, like insurance and personnel and those 14 kinds of things. But we do a bunch. I think this Court 15 probably does all of them combined; spend money on things that 16 we're not required to do, it's just a nice thing to do, back 17 when Kerr County was a bunch of rich kids, that we had a lot 18 of money. Before the juvenile facility broke us, we had the 19 money to do all these things, and through the years, just 20 added them on, added them on, added them on, and added them 21 on. And now is a super appropriate time to take a look at 22 that and be real about it, I think. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, for a little bit, I 24 think, from the lack of an economy of scale, if our population 25 in Kerr County doubled overnight, we wouldn't have to increase 4-10-06 80 1 our employment by double. In other words, I think small 2 counties like us have more difficulty being efficient on a per 3 capita basis than a big county like -- like Harris County. I 4 don't know that. That's pretty extravagant, but logically, 5 you might think that might be the case. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's amazing how population 7 drives all of this. A former County Commissioner gave me a 8 copy of a budget about 13, 14 years ago, that this Court 9 approved, and it was about one-fourth the size of the current 10 budget. Population drives a lot of things. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did it -- has the budget 13 grown in proportion with the population growth? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Population and the tax base, 15 mm-hmm, sure. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Where do we go from here? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Lunch. (Laughter.) 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, you know, I recommend 19 putting it back on the next agenda again. I think there's a 20 -- I'd like to recategorize your categories a little bit. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think a little bit 23 different. I think -- like, the library's not on here. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I made some notes while 25 everybody was talking. 4-10-06 81 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: A few things that aren't there. 2 I'd probably structure it a little bit different. We're going 3 to have a County Clerk; we're going to have a Treasurer. Kind 4 of look what's under there, and, I mean, that's the framework 5 we have to work within. Then you have to figure out what 6 works best in those departments. I mean, they have their 7 constitutional duties, obviously, but some of these things are 8 more flexible. As an example of something, I mean, 9 Collections. To me, that's a financial thing, and it ought to 10 be tied in with other financial offices; doesn't need to be a 11 whole department. I mean, basically, we're paying the 12 supervisor there and paying a supervisor somewhere else for 13 doing the same thing. Or it should go under -- maybe under 14 judicial. I mean, they're mostly -- the collections that 15 they're doing are coming out of the judicial side. Maybe 16 that's where that belongs. But it seems that, you know, the 17 functions are necessary, but I don't know that we need 18 departments for each of these. I mean, we have a lot of one- 19 or two-people departments. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we could have some 22 economies by having supervision a little bit more broad. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: I think that's where Commissioner 24 Nicholson was originally coming from. He's got a pretty 25 lengthy background in -- in management, particularly personnel 4-10-06 82 1 management, and I think he should be the chosen one to keep 2 wrassling with this problem for us. That's not to mean that 3 the rest of us don't have input, but I want to keep massaging 4 it. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, as Commissioner Letz 6 mentioned, the library and two other three other things 7 that -- as I glance at it, that are also part of it. EMS, a 8 big-ticket item for us. Indigent health care, big-ticket item 9 for us. These are things that we're called upon to do; in 10 some cases, mandated to do, like indigent health. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: In connection with the indigent 12 health care, there's a kind of sort of proposal out there that 13 maybe we're going to bring that back in-house, as opposed to 14 continuing to handle it -- the administration aspect of it 15 outside. And you -- we're kind of at the beginning point, as 16 you said, if we were, 150 years ago, figuring out how we were 17 going to structure this. So, that would certainly be one of 18 those items. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And another thing just to keep 20 in the back of our minds. We will be making a change out here 21 within -- at the end of the year, as our -- as Kathy goes on 22 to her new judicial responsibilities, and we need to keep that 23 into the mix as to how that fits in. And whatever that 24 replacement -- whoever that replacement is, you know, look at 25 needs that we're looking for. 4-10-06 83 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I wanted to say something 2 about that, too. I've had an application turned in to me -- 3 not an application, a resumé turned in to me, and I've taken 4 to it Barbara's office and asked them to start a new file 5 here, so if y'all get them, just keep them all together. But 6 I want to go back to the indigent health care, which has 7 turned into a major, major expense for the taxpayers of the 8 county. First of all, I -- I'm a fan of the indigent health 9 care program. I -- I believe that the government -- the local 10 government, if we're required to do anything, is to take care 11 of our needy neighbors and our needy citizens, those folks 12 that truly -- that truly make the indigent health care list. 13 I think that government is supposed to take care of those 14 folks that are down and out, have absolutely no other place to 15 go. That is what government does. 16 However, I believe that the indigent health care 17 list has -- the criteria -- I just think it's turned into an 18 unfair issue. We have people on there that are tapping into 19 the system that are property owners, that are vehicle owners, 20 that are -- you know, that kind of thing, and so it's -- I 21 didn't know about the move to move it back into the county 22 system, but I'm all for that. I just think if we ran -- if 23 that thing was run right, then we would be doing the right 24 thing. Those people that are really in need are the ones that 25 would be used. But I was going to ask Number 4 -- you said 4-10-06 84 1 that he was the chosen one? Is that like -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: In my mind, he's the chosen one. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or is that ordained, "The 4 Ordained One"? Or, "O great and mighty one"? Or -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All of the above. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All of the above. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or the retiring-soon one. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, that's what I'm afraid 9 of. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, at least I'm here to 11 defend myself, unlike when I was assigned to be liaison to the 12 library. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: We might be able to figure out a way 14 to make that more permanent, if you'd like. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Permanent? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I recommend we put it on the 17 next agenda and kind of discuss it again, and maybe try to 18 come up with a formula that Dave can look at. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let's all of us come up 20 with some more thoughts about it between now and then. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Glenn has a -- 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Holekamp? 23 MR. HOLEKAMP: I have a comment, possibly question. 24 When we -- I know we got into a new computer system here in 25 the courthouse. Now, we've been using the same format, the 4-10-06 85 1 same line items for as long as I can remember here. At some 2 point, it would really be nice if we could retool that thing, 3 shuffle stuff around and get them properly placed. See, we -- 4 each year we compare line item to line item. I'm going to -- 5 just for example, I might be unusual from the standpoint I got 6 four budgets, but if we could move them around a little bit, 7 not change the bottom lines, total, but change them around to 8 where they would reflect more closely what those people 9 actually do and where they work, it would be very helpful. 10 And, you know, I -- I'm not faulting the Judge by any means, 11 because he has these numbers that he's given on -- on the 12 schedule. But I think -- I think we're at a point where we 13 could identify and place these budgets properly. I -- I think 14 it would reflect better what they actually do, especially my 15 department, where I've got so many different areas that we do. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- in that vein, I think 17 we could do a whole lot of simplification in that process. We 18 have office supplies; we have -- I mean, there's so many 19 different categories. Lease copier supplies, regular office 20 supplies, lease copier maintenance. I mean, those are all 21 basically office functions, and it would give -- we could get 22 rid of all these budget amendments we're doing if we could 23 have broader categories that, you know cover running your 24 office. I mean, I really don't care if it's going for lease 25 copier paper or -- it really doesn't make a bit of difference 4-10-06 86 1 to me. And we could -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: What you're talking about is -- is, 3 rather than a narrow line-item budget method of budgeting, a 4 more general category of budgeting personnel, office equipment 5 and supplies, and maybe capital expenditures. Very broad 6 items, and, you know, how they handle it within that 7 particular office. You know, it doesn't have to be posted. 8 It doesn't have to be office supplies. It doesn't have to be 9 other items of -- of minor equipment purchases. But -- 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And maybe that's something we 11 could ask the Auditor's office to come up with some categories 12 that work a little bit easier, and I think that would also 13 save a lot of efficiency and a lot of time. It takes a lot of 14 time to code all this stuff down to all these lengthy codes 15 and figure out, well, is it a -- what kind of a purchase is 16 that? To me, it's unnecessary. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It would certainly do away 18 with a lot of $1.50 budget amendments throughout the course of 19 the year. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's pretty antiquated, I 21 think, the budgeting categories. I was thinking about this. 22 Relative to this subject, I think John Trolinger gave us a 23 copy of something about e-government, electronic government. 24 And I got -- that struck me, and I got to thinking about that. 25 When I fly -- it's either Southwest or Northwest Airlines. 4-10-06 87 1 With one or two of the airlines now, when I get to the 2 airport, I, you know, touch the screen, -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All of them. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- get my ticket and do 5 some other stuff, pick my chair and all that. The time will 6 come when -- it could happen now -- when a citizen comes to 7 the courthouse to transact business; he doesn't have to talk 8 to a person. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think that the -- in 10 that area, the computer system is supposed to get us closer 11 there, of letting people do more and more of this online, so 12 we don't need to have them come to the courthouse. And, you 13 know, one of the ways to encourage people not to come to the 14 courthouse is if they have to wait a little bit when they get 15 here. You know, you don't want to make it unreasonable, but I 16 know that you -- you know, I'm not into the Tax Assessor's 17 office every day getting a license or paying something for a 18 vehicle, but rarely do you wait more than two or three 19 minutes, if that, in there. Well, I mean, I think a -- to me, 20 a 5- to 10-minute wait is not inappropriate to get a license 21 tag. Or same in Jannett's office. I mean, you know, you 22 don't want people waiting 30, 40 minutes for a service, but I 23 don't think in this day, it's -- you know, we need to have 24 counters open all day long. I mean, a short wait is not a 25 problem. And I think if -- if people don't want that, 'cause 4-10-06 88 1 -- and I think one of the reasons we probably have that -- 2 that open space is 'cause I think a lot of people do stuff 3 online. A lot of people send their license thing in through 4 the mail. The work needs to be done still, and you may not 5 have an actual personnel change, but you can at least get a 6 little bit more efficient use of the personnel. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just want to say one more 8 thing. My goal, what I would really -- my wish, what I'd 9 really like to see come out of here, is the time that this 10 Commissioners Court approves a budget, and it's a real -- the 11 real thing, and we don't have department heads and other 12 elected officials coming back 15 days later amending the 13 budget. Now, I don't -- we've done -- we've done budgets 49 14 different ways, and I don't know the answer to it, other than 15 get the elected official and department head to build their 16 budget what -- you know, that's reasonable, and we approve it, 17 and say, "See you next year." Do not walk back in here until 18 next year. I don't know how you do that, but I -- that's my 19 goal, is to see that. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Some of that can be 21 accomplished like Mr. Holekamp mentioned earlier -- 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what's he's talking 23 about. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- in terms of line items, 25 what they are, and we can establish better categories instead 4-10-06 89 1 of so many line items. We can also determine that they can 2 move their dollars, within certain limitations, around in 3 their budget without having to come here for a $4.98 budget 4 amendment. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All that takes time, and takes 6 time of people sitting in here waiting till we can get to it. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: We fleshed that one out? Let's move 9 on to 13; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action 10 regarding the restructuring of the Kerr County Juvenile 11 Detention Facility Center, including, but not limited to 12 personnel, salaries, and building configuration. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I'm going to ask that 14 that be taken off of the Commissioners Court agenda, and it 15 has already been suggested for placement by an addendum to the 16 Kerr County Juvenile Facility Board of Trustees agenda, and 17 that would be a more appropriate place for that discussion to 18 take place. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Very well. Anybody else on the Court 20 have anything to offer on that? Let's quickly take up our 21 department reports, then, under section -- under Item 14. 22 Animal Control, I've been advised that they're working a 23 special case in connection with abuse to an animal, I believe 24 I heard, and will not have the opportunity to be with us 25 today. If I'm not mistaken, I think we fairly frequently get 4-10-06 90 1 reports from them out there at the facility. Let's move to 2 the Extension Office. I note that Mr. Walston is with us. 3 MR. WALSTON: Good morning. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, sir. 5 MR. WALSTON: Good to see you gentlemen this 6 morning. I appreciate the opportunity to come visit with you 7 and give you an update as to what we've been getting 8 accomplished over the last couple of months out in the County 9 Extension Office. To start with, our Ag/Natural Resource 10 subjects, and on February 7th, we hosted a fruit tree 11 management workshop, which is an annual event, out at Ingram 12 and Hunt area, and Dr. Larry Stein -- we had about 40 13 homeowners, gardeners, producers come out, and Dr. Stein 14 worked -- worked us through a cool season management program, 15 pruning, selection on varieties as far as planting, and some 16 things like that. And it's always a well-attended program, 17 and the producers always really enjoy it. 18 March the 28th, Dr. Michael Masser -- we hosted a 19 pond management program at Stablewood Springs, and had a 20 really good program on identifying various aquatic weed types, 21 how to control those weed types, as well as stocking ponds 22 with the various aquatic species of fish types -- species, and 23 we had, I believe, about 40 producers at that one as well. It 24 was really well received, and the producers enjoyed it and got 25 a lot out of it. He also covered pond management as far as 4-10-06 91 1 fertilization and numerous other subjects. Of course, our 2 private applicator certification, we just had that, I believe, 3 this last week, and we're still certifying private 4 applicators, and also recertifying those that have got their 5 license and continuing to need to get those CEU's, and so we 6 try to offer those as much as possible and at every event. 7 Our Hill Country Master Gardeners have just 8 finalized their last -- their fifth class. They're actively 9 working on hosting the 2007 State Master Gardener meeting. 10 We'll be hosting about 600 Master Gardeners in April of 2007. 11 We're trying to get -- our host hotel is -- will be at the Inn 12 of the Hills. It's a three-day program. They'll come in on 13 Thursday, tour the Hill Country on Friday, and Saturday have a 14 full day of meetings and educational seminars. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How many did you say? How 16 many people? 17 MR. WALSTON: There will be about 600. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How do you tour 600 people? 19 MR. WALSTON: With a lot of buses. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Really? Who pays for this? 21 MR. WALSTON: It'll have to come through sponsors, 22 and -- and they'll be paying for it themselves. It'll come in 23 as part of the registration fee. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 25 MR. WALSTON: And, so, it was quite an undertaking a 4-10-06 92 1 year ago when we started this. And they were excited about it 2 and wanted to do it, and so they said, of course, you know, 3 600 is -- is -- they can pretty well get 600 anywhere, so when 4 we're talking about coming to the Hill Country, we may be 5 pushing over 700, 750. So -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are they going to have a trade 7 show and things of that nature as well? Or exhibitors, or 8 just -- 9 MR. WALSTON: They'll have some exhibitors. We'll 10 have exhibitors that -- sponsors that will -- and we're 11 working on all the -- everything's going to be set up there at 12 the Inn of the Hills, and we're going to have the booths and 13 things there inside. So -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Good. 15 MR. WALSTON: Trying to find a place to house 600 16 was -- you know, and transportation is our big deal. But 17 they're going really well, they're really active, and 18 everything is -- they're helping out on the phone banks and at 19 the office, and things are moving along real smoothly. Moving 20 into our 4-H and youth areas, of course, the past three 21 months, I've been pretty well tied up since the middle of 22 January with going to stock shows at Forth Worth, San Antone, 23 Houston, San Angelo, and Austin, along with our district show, 24 and this year we had 88 Kerr County 4-H members competed in 25 the five major shows. They generated $14,700 in premium from 4-10-06 93 1 the sale of their livestock. Also, we -- this year, we hauled 2 some wool and mohair and livestock judging teams. The wool 3 team won champion wool team at San Antonio, as well as San 4 Angelo, and then was reserve wool judging team at Houston. 5 So, the kids were pretty excited about going into Houston and 6 trying to win the triple crown. So, unfortunately, they were 7 a little short, but they're excited and they're going. We 8 just got back Saturday from going to Ozona, so the judging 9 teams are active and going. We also are moving into -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me ask you, if I might, 11 approximately how many entries -- judging team entries were 12 there at Houston? 13 MR. WALSTON: Houston is -- this was their first 14 contest, and the wool judging team was -- they had, I believe, 15 five teams. And in San Antonio, I believe they had 16 teams, 16 and in San Angelo, six to eight teams, I think. So, it's -- 17 it's one of those things that there's -- it's not a real large 18 program -- contest, but those teams that are there are there 19 year-in, year-out, and it gets pretty competitive with our 20 neighbors in Kendall and Kimball and Sutton. And, so, it's -- 21 you know, we're a pretty close-knit bunch, but we don't mind 22 competing against each other. So, moving into our educational 23 presentations and our method demonstrations, what we've known 24 for a long time is what we call our share-the-fun method 25 demonstrations, and which we'll be having our county roundup 4-10-06 94 1 April the 30th, I believe, is that Sunday, and I want to 2 invite y'all to come out. All our kids will be giving their 3 presentations on that Sunday afternoon, and -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The 30th? 5 MR. WALSTON: If that's a Sunday. It'll be that 6 Sunday. I believe it's the 30th. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 9 MR. WALSTON: Okay. That Sunday afternoon, we'll 10 be -- we'll be having it, I believe, starting at 2 o'clock. 11 And we've got 31 Kerr County 4-H'ers that will be competing at 12 our district roundup, and that includes method demonstrations, 13 share-the-fun public speaking opportunities for these kids, 14 and it will be individuals as well as teams. So, we're 15 excited about that. That will -- our district contest will be 16 May the 6th. And, so -- and another thing I want to be sure 17 and mention; Laurinda has just gotten back from Washington, 18 D.C., and we've talked to y'all about our Salvation Army 19 program that we've worked with them. That is operated off of 20 a grant; that's a Building Community Inclusion grant. That is 21 to include handicapped as well as any other youth in -- in the 22 4-H program. She traveled to Washington, D.C. and represented 23 Kerr County as well as Texas 4-H on that B.C.I. grant, and I 24 thought she did an excellent job. And with that program, 25 she's starting to get some recognition from that, and she's 4-10-06 95 1 also going to be going to Texas A & M in the next week or so 2 to be recognized, and she was recognized at the district level 3 last week on the work she's doing for those kids. So, I think 4 our program's off and running really smoothly. 5 Another thing I'd like to mention, our 4-H clubs 6 donated -- raised $2,000 for the M.L. Chartier scholarship 7 fund, and in hopes of helping that scholarship fund get 8 started. So, everything's moving -- moving real smoothly. 9 And we'll be, like I say, gearing up with 4-H as far as our 10 judging teams and things. We've also got numerous other field 11 days and programs coming on here in April and May as far as 12 our Hill Country Living 101, which is for new land owners that 13 are coming in the county. It's a two-day program to where 14 they're able to come in and learn about what it's like living 15 in the hill country and what programs are out there for them 16 to look at. So -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you tell them about the 18 burn ban? 19 MR. WALSTON: Well -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Kind of like that? 21 MR. WALSTON: Yeah. And that's -- that's some of 22 the things that -- you know, sometimes we don't promote to 23 certain people, but sometimes we do. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're way too nice. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Anybody on the Court have any 4-10-06 96 1 questions for Mr. Walston? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, sir. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. Appreciate you being 4 here. 5 MR. WALSTON: Thank you. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Good report. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Environmental Health. 8 MR. ARREOLA: Good morning. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, sir. 10 MR. ARREOLA: I want to try this real quick and just 11 have some charts to give you, be self-explanatory. 12 (Discussion off the record.) 13 MR. ARREOLA: The first one there is just an overall 14 performance of the O.S.S.F. department. It just tells what 15 our goal is for the year, and how we're doing in the middle of 16 the year. Six months passed, and we're right at the mark 17 where we think we should be. Applications and revenue are up 18 from last year, and going just on target on that. The 19 complaints are under control; they're being investigated on 20 time, and we have been receiving less than last year, so 21 that's a positive. We also been developing a little bit of 22 computer programs to make it more efficient and make it 23 faster, and it is working. 24 The second chart you have in there is, we are 25 responding -- our response time to the professionals in the 4-10-06 97 1 industry, how we -- how we're responding, and to give them 2 approvals for installations. State law requires 30 days for 3 us to respond, and you can see there, 95.5 percent, it's 1 to 4 15 days. It's normally three days, but we just mark it as 5 less than 15 days. So, it's -- we're doing pretty good in 6 that area too. The other chart is a requirement by the state 7 law also. We are supposed to track all the aerobic treatment 8 units. We are doing that, and we are having people out of 9 compliance getting back into compliance. Total units in the 10 county, it's 1,353. That's aerobic units only. And of those, 11 only 81 are without a contract, so that it's a -- by 12 percentage, there's about 6 percent of the total is without 13 it. And then the breakdown of why they are out -- without a 14 contract is also there, if you have any questions on that. 15 That's basically how O.S.S.F. is doing. 16 The next chart is for solid waste. The numbers you 17 have in front of you, it's the same period of time from last 18 year to this year. It's fiscal year, so it's October 1st to 19 last day of March. We've been receiving a little bit more 20 cases this year than last year. The response time has been a 21 lot slower because of the personnel problem, but we're still 22 working on it as hard as we can. The next is just the -- the 23 monthly report. And that's basically what I have, and if you 24 have any questions? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Any questions for Mr. Arreola? 4-10-06 98 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Enforcement. How many have 2 been turned over to the County Attorney for enforcement? How 3 many cases? 4 MR. ARREOLA: Number of cases, I don't have exactly 5 a number year-to-date. Last month, we did -- I can tell you 6 real quick. Four -- no, let me see where that is. I don't 7 have the number here with me. I can get you that, but we've 8 been doing probably about four or five that we turned in. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Last year? 10 MR. ARREOLA: No, last month. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Last month. 12 MR. ARREOLA: Yes. Most of them -- all of them got 13 resolved. And that includes violations of aerobic units also, 14 so those are not too difficult to deal with. But what we've 15 turned in as an enforcement, we're now at zero that is pending 16 to be resolved. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions for Mr. Arreola? 19 Thank you, sir. Appreciate you being here. 20 MR. ARREOLA: Thank you. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: What's the Court's pleasure on 22 winding up the Court's business quickly on the payment of the 23 bills and then going to -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Go ahead. 4-10-06 99 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, okay. Let's move on, then, to 2 Section 4 of the agenda, if we might, payment of the bills. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do we have an Auditor? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: We got a Sheriff going to summon the 5 Auditor. Do we have any questions on the bills? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. A comment here, though. 7 I really like this new -- the new program. One -- first thing 8 about it that I like a lot, I don't see any -- not one bill 9 from the Commissioners Court. So -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Next month. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Well -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I'm just saying it 13 looks good right now. But I know the County Judge is a pretty 14 heavy spender, $40 for the month. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, I jumped out there and put a 16 pretty good size dent in my budget. Anybody else have any 17 questions about the bills? Comments? 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I move we pay the bills. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to pay the 21 bills. Any questions or comments? All in favor of the 22 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 4-10-06 100 1 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Budget 2 amendments. Budget Amendment Request Number 1. 3 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. We have a bill to pay a 4 Court-appointed attorney out of the 216th District Court, and 5 we are short $72.47. This will be an ongoing thing, I have a 6 feeling. We want to go ahead and move it out of the Civil 7 Court-Appointed Attorney line item up to Court-Appointed 8 Attorney. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 12 of Budget Amendment Request Number 1. Any question or 13 comment? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Question. I just want to be 15 clear here. We're six months into the budget, and we budgeted 16 $90,000 for Court-appointed attorneys in 216th District -- 17 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- and they're out of money? 19 MS. WILLIAMS: (Nodded.) 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 21 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 23 MS. WILLIAMS: You're welcome. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments? All 25 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 4-10-06 101 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. The motion 3 does carry. Budget Amendment Request Number 2. 4 MS. WILLIAMS: Basically, this is the same as Budget 5 Amendment Number 1, only this is in the 198th District Court. 6 We have a couple of bills, but these are on Court-appointed 7 services. These are for a couple of bills to pay an 8 investigator on a Court-appointed case. We want to move 9 $1,152.68 out of Civil Court-Appointed Attorneys line item and 10 move it up to the Court-Appointed Services in 198th District 11 Court. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Question, Ms. Williams. 13 MS. WILLIAMS: Sir? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In your opinion, have we 15 underbudgeted in both of those categories, or are the expenses 16 extraordinarily high this year? 17 MS. WILLIAMS: I think the expense are just a little 18 high this year. These are things that we can't really 19 anticipate. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to approve 23 Budget Amendment Request Number 2. Any questions or comments? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me make it clear here. 25 We're six months into the budget, and this line's broke. 4-10-06 102 1 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 3 MS. WILLIAMS: You're welcome. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments? All 5 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Budget 10 Amendment Request Number 3. 11 MS. WILLIAMS: Okay. This involves the Detention 12 Maintenance budget in general fund. We have a couple of bills 13 that we're holding that we need to pay, and there are not 14 adequate funds in either one of these line items, the first 15 one being the Maintenance and Custodial Supplies. We have a 16 bill for $425 that needs to be paid, and in the Detention 17 Repairs line item, we have a bill for 1,695.50. We need 18 $1,010.64 to be able to pay that. Again, as -- like when I 19 was here last court meeting, there is nowhere in the general 20 fund that I can see to take the money from, so I'm leaving it 21 up to the discretion of the Court to guide me. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Fund 10-515, is that -- 23 that's under Glenn? 24 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 4-10-06 103 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Have we used the other 2 moneys that -- unexpended moneys in the Marketing line item? 3 Have those been used up? 4 MS. WILLIAMS: No, sir. We do have some moneys left 5 in that Marketing line item that we could probably reallocate 6 over here to take care of these bills. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How much? 8 MS. WILLIAMS: I would say probably around $4,000, 9 because I do have -- the next budget amendment will address 10 that. I have some bills that we need to pay out of the 11 Detention Facility budget that I wanted to reallocate moneys 12 out of Marketing to different areas. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. So, you don't really 14 want us to make a precipitous move here. 15 MS. WILLIAMS: No, that would be fine. We're only 16 looking at needing $1,400. What I need -- what I need to move 17 out of this next budget amendment is, like, 3,300-plus, so 18 we're still going to have a little bit of cushion there. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: You're going to have 3,843 left after 20 that next budget amendment. 21 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. So, I -- if we want to 22 take it out of that Marketing line item in Fund 76, that would 23 be fine with me. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would be my preference. 4-10-06 104 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. So moved, with the money 2 to come out of the Marketing line item. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 5 of Budget Amendment Request Number 3, with funds to come from 6 76-572-480, Marketing, Detention Center. Any question or 7 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 8 your right hand. 9 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Budget 13 Amendment Request Number 4. 14 MS. WILLIAMS: Okay. On this budget amendment 15 request, we have a couple of line items that we really need to 16 put money into, and when I did the budget amendments, I was 17 anticipating a couple of months down the road. We have -- at 18 present, we have food expenses of 383.02. We need to get 19 those paid as soon as possible. We have resident medical -- 20 the budget amendment says 2,030.73, but we have gotten 21 additional bills in to the tune of over $2,000, so we're 22 looking at about $4,200 in resident medical that we need to 23 pay pretty quick. Some of these I have set up to request hand 24 checks, as late bills, so that we can get them in the works 25 get them out. The others I think we can easily process at the 4-10-06 105 1 next court meeting. I don't think there'll be a problem with 2 the vendors. On the Resident Medical line item, I was asking 3 for $5,000. I still want to leave it at that, because I think 4 that's enough to cover what we've got pending. We can look at 5 what we get in later. Lease Copier, there are two copiers out 6 there that are under contract, and I think we just probably 7 underbudgeted for those. I'm anticipating -- the $3,300 that 8 I'm requesting, I'm anticipating to carry through the end of 9 September. That could all change; I don't know. Either way, 10 I think with the contract, if we cancel one, we're going to 11 have to buy it out, unless we can work with Canon, get them to 12 just pick one up and call it square. These other line items, 13 Ms. Harris and I went over these at that time, and we feel 14 pretty comfortable that we can move these moneys out of those 15 line items without damaging them too much. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask a question. Let's 17 go back to the food thing again. 18 MS. WILLIAMS: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You have a current expense of 20 $383? 21 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And you're moving into that 23 line over 10,000. Now, why is that? 24 MS. WILLIAMS: I was anticipating the bill from 25 Sysco, I believe, for March and April's expenses. Sysco and 4-10-06 106 1 Oak Farms, they're running right at $5,000 a month. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, you think -- do you think 3 that if the place completely shut down tomorrow, -- 4 MS. WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- do you think that this 6 would cover all the grocery bills? 7 MS. WILLIAMS: It may. It may not. I have no idea 8 what's sitting out there. I really don't know. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But you happen to know about 10 a few things? 11 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes -- yeah. And, like I said, the 12 amount that I put in there is just a projected amount, based 13 on what we figured they've been spending on average per month 14 for the last month or so. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That was going to be my 16 question, how did you project that amount. 'Cause I think the 17 budget was 30,000, and we've long since expended that. 18 MS. WILLIAMS: Oh, yes. But the early part of the 19 fiscal year, October-November-December, we had a lot of kids; 20 the expenses were higher. The last month or so, like 21 January-February has not been quite as high, and it's -- I 22 took those and kind of averaged them and figured we're going 23 to probably stay along that even line, I hope. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 4-10-06 107 1 MS. WILLIAMS: I have -- excuse me. I have copies 2 of the invoices that I would like to get the Court to approve 3 as late bills. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: But we're not handling it with this 5 budget amendment. 6 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir, I -- I do need to have it 7 handled with this budget amendment so we can go ahead and get 8 the checks out. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: What you're saying is you need hand 10 checks as part of this budget amendment? 11 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: To H.E.B. Credit Receivables for 13 $363.57, Gold Star Food Service for $19.45, Ackman Pharmacy 14 for $1,377.99, and for Walmart Community to -- for 191.76? 15 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Who made that motion? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I did. It includes -- 18 JUDGE TINLEY: You included that as part of the 19 motion? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, it does, including the hand 21 checks. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or discussion on 23 the motion to approve Budget Amendment Request Number 4 with 24 the hand checks added? All in favor of the motion, signify by 25 raising your right hand. 4-10-06 108 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Do we have 5 any other budget amendments? 6 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir, I have one more that I had 7 to work up. Here you go. This is mine. Okay, this budget 8 amendment, I spoke with the Tax Assessor about the middle or 9 so of last week. When she prepared her request for the 10 '05-'06 budget, she requested the full amount of money that 11 she had the previous year for her software maintenance. For 12 some reason, she didn't get that full amount; she only got 13 $8,772. I'm not sure why there was a difference, but I am 14 kind of guessing that maybe we were anticipating that we would 15 be on the new software earlier than what we are. With delays 16 and whatnot, I'm not sure what happened. Bottom line is, we 17 have a bill for $2,189 that we need to pay to Software Group, 18 and she's only got $332 left in her budget. And I spoke with 19 her; she's looked through her budget. She can't find it. I 20 really couldn't find $1,857 in any other of her line items 21 either. And if we take it out now, we're just going to have 22 to come back later on and do something different later. So, 23 I'm wondering if the Court has any direction for me to look 24 at? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I want to ask a question. 4-10-06 109 1 Is this for software maintenance on the system that's being -- 2 MS. WILLIAMS: The current -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- replaced? 4 MS. WILLIAMS: The current system. They are having 5 to run -- and especially for this bill, this is on the 6 automated tax collection system. They're having to run the 7 two systems concurrently side-by-side. It was something that 8 Paula said they required her to do so that they could kind of 9 compare and make sure that everything on the new system is 10 jibing with the old system. And she anticipates probably 11 running that through the end of this budget year. Hopefully 12 not that long, but we're not sure. So, this budget amendment 13 request is strictly to take care of the bill that we have that 14 covers the period of April 1st through June 30th. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: This software is software 16 that the County owns? Does anybody know? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: I think it's software that the County 18 presently owns, but as soon as this new system is online, will 19 become obsolete and no longer needed. But that's part of an 20 annualized software maintenance amount? 21 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir, and they bill it quarterly. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Help me -- help me just a 23 little bit. We budgeted 14,000? 24 MS. WILLIAMS: The previous year. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 14,000. 4-10-06 110 1 MS. WILLIAMS: The backup that I gave you. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What did we budget for '06? 3 MS. WILLIAMS: $8,772. The backup that's attached 4 to the budget amendment is strictly what the Tax Assessor gave 5 me. It was copies of her worksheets where she had requested 6 the full amount, with her explanation about the line item 7 remaining unchanged. But when the budget was approved, 8 evidently it had been cut down to the 8,772. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: If that 2,189 is a quarterly charge, 10 looks like the 87 was right on the mark. 11 MS. WILLIAMS: But that is only for automated tax 12 collection, client support. She also has vehicles -- let's 13 see. There's one other one that she has that we pay every 14 quarter. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Maybe that's where the mistake 16 occurred, then. 17 MS. WILLIAMS: It could very well be. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there any money in 20 contingency for Commissioners Court left? 21 MS. WILLIAMS: I believe there's $3,000. Don't hold 22 he to it, but I believe we have $3,000 in that line item. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why don't we take it out of -- I 24 make a motion we approve the budget amendment and take the 25 funds from Nondepartmental Contingency. 4-10-06 111 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 3 indicated. Any question or discussion? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I 5 just want to say that we're six months in this budget, and 6 we're -- this is unbelievable. Isn't this unbelievable? 7 Y'all find this funny? This is absolutely incredible. What 8 is the answer to this thing? I have another Number 5 here. 9 Where'd it come from? 10 MS. WILLIAMS: It's the court reporter's copy. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, it's a different Number 12 5, though. Different information. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: May have been last week's. 14 MS. WILLIAMS: What's the date underneath it? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Three -- 16 MS. WILLIAMS: No, under the 5. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 3/13. 18 MS. WILLIAMS: Okay, that was two sessions ago. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Well, I appreciate you 20 keep pumping the information to me so I don't get lost. I 21 really appreciate it. 22 MS. WILLIAMS: You're welcome. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments? All 25 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 4-10-06 112 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Do we have 5 any late bills? 6 MS. WILLIAMS: No, sir, that's it. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Other than the ones we've taken care 8 of. 9 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: I have before me monthly reports from 11 the -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thanks, Mindy. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: -- District Clerk -- 14 MS. WILLIAMS: You're welcome. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: -- and the County Clerk, general fund 16 report. Do I hear a motion that these reports be approved as 17 submitted? 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So moved. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that the 21 indicated reports be approved as submitted. Any question or 22 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 23 your right hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 4-10-06 113 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Any of the 3 Commissioners have any reports as their committee and liaison 4 assignments that they wish to render now? 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I do. Let's talk about the 6 library budget for a few minutes. I think last -- our last 7 meeting, I gave you a copy of the Kerrville City Council's 8 budget schedule, and what was due April 3rd was the so-called 9 base budgets, working documents, current-year estimates. And 10 those were provided to the City Manager on the 3rd of April. 11 We met in a workshop on the 4th of April -- the Library Board, 12 "we" meaning the Library Board -- and we reviewed those 13 documents in some detail, line by line. This is essentially a 14 forecast of what costs are going to be for this fiscal year. 15 It doesn't include escalation for pay raises and things like 16 that. I did learn some things about the library budget that I 17 want to share with you, and I wouldn't mind having some -- 18 some feedback or direction from you about how -- 19 directionally, on preparing the library budget. 20 I think the library budget is going to be about 21 $940,000, plus pay increases -- no, about 823,000 -- I got it 22 wrong again. It's going to be about $940,000 plus pay 23 increases, which would mean, I'm guessing, that the budget 24 proposed by the Library Director is going to be about 25 $970,000. If -- if we decided, for example, to pay half of 4-10-06 114 1 that budget, that would be about $130,000 more than we 2 approved for payment this year. I analyzed the budget, and 3 it's not unlike other government functions; 80 percent of the 4 costs is people -- pay, benefits, taxes, health insurance. 5 And about 12 percent is literally -- literary materials, books 6 and tapes and things like that. And the balance of it, pens 7 and pencils and computers, paper and all that, is 8 percent. 8 So, if you were concerned about controlling the costs to your 9 library, attacking that "All Other" category of only 8 percent 10 is not going to yield very much. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You're not going to have 13 much impact trying to control pencils and paper. If you're in 14 the library business, you need to be buying new books, so, 15 probably attacking the $110,000 a year or so budgeted for 16 those materials is counterproductive. That leaves people. 17 We've got about somewhere around 13, 13 and a half equivalent 18 full-time employees there, so that's what we're looking at. 19 We're looking at -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Out of those 13, how many are 21 degreed librarians? Do you know that? 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't know. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's an interesting number 24 to have. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I know they're very -- 4-10-06 115 1 appear to be very particular about who can work dealing with 2 the users. We've got a whole lot of -- of volunteers; I'm 3 going to say 30, maybe 40. We had more than that in the past. 4 They don't let them deal with the users. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: "Users" being the public? 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. In fact, my neighbor 7 is a retired degreed librarian, and she's a volunteer, and she 8 doesn't fill one of the roles of giving materials to people, 9 answering questions. They're background people. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is -- do you anticipate the 11 Advisory Board delving into this personnel issue? 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No, I don't sense much 13 motivation on the part of the Library Board to control costs. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Would that be a Commissioners 15 Court function, by any chance? 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm looking for a little 17 direction here, Commissioners. I -- there's strong support, I 18 think, on the -- certainly, on the Friends of the Library, and 19 probably on the Library Board, for expanding. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Budget or library, or both? 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Both. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Building, staff, budget. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How does -- how does that 24 big figure, Commissioner, comport with what they will tell us, 25 and probably have already told you, is the average number of 4-10-06 116 1 dollars per resident of the county that they'd like to see 2 spent on library services? The per diem expenditure -- or not 3 per diem. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Per capita. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Per capita. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, at a minimum, $13.50 7 per capita is the state minimum. You have to spend that much 8 money to be eligible for -- to participate in their programs. 9 I think that only generates about six, seven -- or 13.50 times 10 45,000, whatever that is, somewhere around 600,000 or 700,000. 11 And we're probably looking at 970,000. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I know that there's frequently 13 mentioned to us the number of library cards that are 14 outstanding, and we've looked at -- and one or two things I'd 15 like to know is, one, are these cards or people -- patrons 16 that are actively using the library, or cards that have been 17 issued in the last 50 years? And what's -- you know, I'd like 18 to get a handle on the number of people that are actually 19 using the library. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think I can probably 21 answer that. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: 610,000. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How much? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: 610. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would be 13.50 times 4-10-06 117 1 what? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: 45,000. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, they're asking -- well, go 4 back to this question. They're -- the budget is requesting 5 funding almost 30 percent above what the state recommends. Is 6 that what you -- 7 JUDGE TINLEY: State minimum, yeah. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: State minimum. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: At the minimum level of 13.50 per 10 capita, it would come out just a little over 600,000. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, we're -- 900,000 is about 12 30 percent more -- 50 percent more. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 50 percent. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: 50. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Gate count, that's the 16 total number of people that walk through the door. And 2006 17 is projected to be 175,000. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there any -- is there any 19 idea as to how many different -- I'm trying to figure out the 20 usage. That counts one person going five times in one day 21 as -- the gate count doesn't really give you a distribution. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't know what the 23 registrations are, but I think included in that may be 24 somebody that registered 40 years ago. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did you do the gate count 4-10-06 118 1 times -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Have they looked at -- and they 3 don't charge? There's no charge for a library card? 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No. They -- if they charge 5 anything for the library services, they lose their eligibility 6 for state program participation. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can we require -- can we get new 8 library cards? Can we say, "Okay, we want to update our 9 records"? We want to get every -- you know, just a one-time 10 thing. That would at least find out how many are really using 11 it county-wide, and get a name and address from everybody. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Right. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That might be a way at least to 14 get a handle on the usage side of it a little bit better than 15 what we have right now. I mean -- 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: In case you're interested, 17 there's some interesting learnings. The library is much, much 18 more than a place to go learn something from a book or other 19 materials. They laugh and say on the weekends, the library is 20 the Chamber of Commerce. People come in there and get 21 information about Kerr County, maps and directions. I got in 22 trouble last time I said this, but I'll say it again. It's 23 also an internet cafe. Snowbirds, travelers, and local people 24 go in there to check their e-mail and do other things on the 25 internet that are not related to literacy. It's a place where 4-10-06 119 1 you can go get your taxes done. I'm not saying there's 2 anything wrong with all these things. It's just -- the only 3 question is, do you -- should -- are those the kind of things 4 that taxpayer funds should be used for? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And all those are free. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Oh, yeah. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: But -- but could we charge a fee for 8 those services and not jeopardize the state funding? 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm afraid to answer that. 10 I've raised that question about some products. Some said no, 11 you can't do that. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Be interesting to know. Or 13 maybe -- maybe we should ask the state licensing -- or the 14 state agency may be a better source of that information. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What do we do that we can 16 charge for? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's the bottom line. Because 18 especially if we're using things like, you know, e-mail, or 19 using the computers and stuff, I mean, I think it's great, and 20 I don't mind spending public dollars to provide a spot to do 21 it, but I also think the users should pay a -- pay for that. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That gets us right back to 23 the point Commissioner Baldwin made earlier, when we were 24 talking about the budget matter. Things that we are required 25 to provide and things that we have opted to provide over the 4-10-06 120 1 years. I think you can make the same analysis for the 2 library. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think that's a good 4 starting point, 'cause I think -- I mean, I personally am very 5 much in favor of -- we want to provide a library service. 6 But, as we've said -- I've said the past couple of years, it's 7 getting to a point that it's real hard to do that at the level 8 that the library wants. I mean, a million dollars, or half of 9 a million dollars a year is something that is getting harder 10 and harder to fund. And I hear from my constituents that a 11 large number of them use another library that doesn't get any 12 Kerr County funding right now. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And a large -- which is a very 15 good library in Comfort. And, you know, it's getting Kendall 16 County funding, but they also -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have numerous neighbors 18 that use the library at Schreiner University. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. And I brought that up 20 last year, the thing that -- you know, is there a way we can 21 do some kind of a joint endeavor with Schreiner University? 22 The same issues that I had on the table last year when we went 23 through this debate have not been resolved and really looked 24 at seriously, in my mind. And, you know, it's just something 25 that we -- you know, we -- 4-10-06 121 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are these not questions, 2 however, that we need to ask? They need to be asked, but 3 should we not ask them at the time we have a -- hopefully have 4 a joint meeting with the City and discuss it? Because they 5 have the same problem. They have -- they have 50 percent of 6 this operational budget, so the same concerns should be theirs 7 as we're registering here today. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm not -- that's -- we 9 need to talk with our brothers on the City Council, that's for 10 sure. The complexity is, I don't know if it is or not. The 11 library is going to give me, and I'm going to give you, budget 12 recommendations by June 30th, as required by the interlocal 13 agreement. And we're going to meet -- according to the City, 14 we're going to meet on August 14th. So, that said, we've got 15 June, July, and half of August that the library budget will be 16 sitting on our desks before we are scheduled to talk to the 17 City Council about it. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I think what Bill said, 19 and what you said, I think the timing's going to be -- by the 20 time we meet with the City, it's going to be a done deal. At 21 our initial meeting -- 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's what I'm worried 23 about. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think that the -- I mean, 25 we have gotten into this adversarial relationship, 4-10-06 122 1 unfortunately, over the library with the City, and that's not 2 my intent at all. And I think if we can get the communication 3 back with the Library Advisory Board, it's not cutting the 4 library budget; it's really -- it's a way to expand it and 5 make it better. But it's got to be -- that has to be done 6 through other sources of revenue somewhere, whether it be 7 user-pay for the, you know, little bit of the computer time, 8 or -- or other sources that we can start charging. It's not 9 that we're trying to cut back our funding, necessarily. We're 10 trying to figure out how we can continue to fund it at a high 11 level. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I've commented to the Board 13 that -- I think I said it would be a mistake for us to assume 14 that the Commissioners Court is going to rubber-stamp a 15 budget. And a couple of times, I've said I think it would be 16 a good idea to tell the Court what a $13.50 budget would look 17 like, what the library would look like at $13.50. I would -- 18 if I were the Library Director, I would want to do that, just 19 for the purpose of selling the bigger budget to you. Say, 20 "You want a bare-bone budget? Here's what the library is 21 going to look like, so you better approve my needed budget." 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: $13.50 per person? Is that 23 -- but that's per capita. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not actual use. 4-10-06 123 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: 13.50 times 45,000. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But not all those 45,000 use 3 the thing. That's -- 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, that's just a state 5 criteria. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that the -- you know, 7 there's going to be a lot -- we can get a bigger and better 8 library if the Library Advisory Board -- the Library Board, 9 you know, if they can figure out ways to help us bring in more 10 revenue so we can make it a bigger and better library. I 11 mean, I just -- I think the days of public funds driving this, 12 you know, budget are -- you know, we've got to relook at it. 13 And I'm all in favor of the library, and I'm all in favor of 14 funding it, but I can't fund it at a higher and higher level 15 when a lot of these services are not -- or can be charged for 16 by the users. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I've got three questions, 18 and I'm hoping I'll get some direction from you. I got three 19 questions I've said I'll ask the Board. One is what products 20 or services do we provide that we can charge for? And two is, 21 what products and services do we provide that are not 22 traditional to libraries? Which is partially the first 23 question, I think. And what about joint ventures? Is there 24 any opportunities for synergy in terms of working with other 25 local libraries? 4-10-06 124 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: One other area that I'm 2 surprised that you haven't brought up is the user fee issue. 3 Can we pinpoint the actual users, and the citizens that live 4 outside the incorporated city of Kerrville pay a $25 annual 5 fee to use the library? That would be me. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's done in other 7 counties. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And also other counties. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Huh? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Other counties as well. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. And, I mean, we're 12 back to the user fee thing that this Court seems to embrace on 13 most occasions. I just think that's an option. An option I 14 like, -- 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- actually. And then there 17 wouldn't be any question. Our people pay a flat fee, and then 18 we'll see you next year. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can -- on the minimum fee that 20 we have to our standards, can we change -- or can the county 21 residents pay a fee and not the city residents, or county 22 residents cannot pay a fee? Or do you know? 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I know one of our hill 24 country counties, close-by county, that a few months ago -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Comal. 4-10-06 125 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- the county wasn't 2 helping the city enough, and they said, "We're going to charge 3 a non-city resident, the other people in the county that come 4 in here." I think that was challenged. Commissioner Baldwin, 5 do you remember if that was challenged? Or -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, I don't. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That was Comal. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It was Comal, and I think 9 Bexar does the same thing. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Comal County was in a very similar 11 situation to what we're in, and the request was made by the 12 City for the traditional participation that had occurred in 13 previous years, and I think they offered a nominal amount, and 14 that wasn't adequate. And they said, "Okay, our option is you 15 charge our people $25 for a library card, and that'll be our 16 contribution." And I'm not aware of any challenge. If there 17 was, I'm certainly not aware of it. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: One thing I sense is that 19 there's a good bit of thinking around the city, the library, 20 and maybe in the county, that a -- a library district is a 21 taxing entity that's going to be approved by Kerr County 22 voters, and that white horse will charge in here and bail us 23 out of this expensive operation. You all are more experienced 24 in these things than I am, but I -- I don't sense a lot -- a 25 lot of voters will want to vote for more taxes. 4-10-06 126 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would be -- I don't think it 2 would be very close, and I would be surprised if it passed, 3 personally. What I hear from my constituents, I know a lot of 4 my constituents use the library, but there's a lot that don't. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, a lot of people look 6 upon it -- and I've discussed this before, and I, frankly, 7 thought that it's an idea that bears discussion. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But a lot of people look 10 upon it as another layer of tax over and above what we're 11 already paying. And for me to support it, I'd want to know 12 that we remove our line item in favor of the library district. 13 I don't know if that'll would fly or not. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't either. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I would vote for a district 16 if you assured me that you're going to drop it out of the 17 county budget. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And when you told me you 19 were, I wouldn't believe you. (Laughter.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner, let me ask you this. 21 You mentioned -- I appreciate you issuing those caveats to the 22 Library Board people. When you asked for the 13.50 per capita 23 budget, what kind of response did you get? 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I didn't -- it wasn't met 25 with great enthusiasm. 4-10-06 127 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Did you get the indication that you 2 would see one of those, or that it was just going to be -- 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I can't tell you. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I would renew that request -- 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: -- also. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Have you visited one-on-one with 8 the City Council liaison about some of these issues? 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It may be a good idea to follow 11 what Bill says, because, as I recall, we have one appointee 12 and they have one appointee. Then we appoint two at-large, 13 they appoint two at-large, and then the Friends 14 representative. But it may be a good way to get some support. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Who is the City Council 16 representative, Commissioner? 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: David Wampler. And in 18 attendance a couple times have been Mayor Smith and the Public 19 Works Director. I can't recall his name right now. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Charlie Hastings. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Maintenance -- they got a 22 lot of maintenance issues there, so for some reason -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Who is the current Advisory 24 Board Chairman? 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: John David Lipscomb. 4-10-06 128 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Lipscomb. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mr. Lipscomb? 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Mm-hmm. He's a very 4 effective chairman. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Appreciate your update. I mean, 6 this is -- I think we're further into the budget -- or into 7 the budget earlier than ever before, at least in a broad 8 sense, which is good. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Now, just one other comment, 10 though, Commissioner. Not only the library, but we have -- we 11 have the same sticky wicket with respect to EMS that we have 12 to deal with, and there's a high expectation for some airport 13 funds which we have not yet dealt with. The sooner we meet 14 with representatives of the City, the better it's going to be. 15 That's my point. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I thought we brought that 17 up, and the City was pretty reluctant to meet with us until 18 August. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, that was then and this 20 is now. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I have no -- I think it 22 would be a very good idea just to put those -- possibly those 23 three items on a joint -- you know, either a joint agenda, or 24 just kind of discussion, at least to get the issues on the 25 table, and funding in generalities, because these are all 4-10-06 129 1 big-ticket items. Now, I think the airport's going to be 2 trimmed quite a bit before it gets to the county budget, but I 3 think the other two are -- the library and EMS -- you know, 4 just philosophical discussion. I think the airport too, 5 really more on the philosophical side as to how we're going to 6 proceed in the future; not necessarily numbers, but what the 7 funding level's going to be. I think that's an important 8 discussion to have. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: If you want to go through 10 this detailed budget, I'll leave it -- I'm going to leave it 11 with Ms. Mitchell. I just didn't want to use up that much 12 paper to have it reproduced. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. Anybody else have 14 any reports from any of their respective assignments? Any 15 other reports from elected officials? It appears that that 16 concludes the agenda for the Commissioners Court, so the 17 Commissioners Court will stand adjourned. 18 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 12:14p.m.) 19 - - - - - - - - - - 20 21 22 23 24 25 4-10-06 130 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my 5 capacity as County Clerk of the Commissioners Court 6 of Kerr County, Texas, at the time and place 7 heretofore set forth. 8 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 17th day of 9 April, 2006. 10 11 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 12 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 13 Certified Shorthand Reporter 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 4-10-06