1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Budget Workshop 10 Wednesday, July 12, 2006 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 DAVE NICHOLSON, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X July 12, 2006 2 PAGE 3 --- Workshop to consider and review FY 2006-07 budget, budget priorities and policies, and 4 the order of departmental budget reviews for FY 2006-2007 budget; review of department 5 budgets; consideration of matters having budgetary impact and other matters relating 6 to FY 2006-07 budget 3 7 --- Adjourned 90 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 On Wednesday, July 12, 2006, at 9:00 a.m., a budget 2 workshop of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me call to order this 8 Commissioners Court budget workshop posted for this date and 9 time, Wednesday, July 12, 2006, at 9 a.m. It's that time now. 10 The agenda item, for the record, is workshop to consider and 11 review Fiscal Year 2006-07 budget, budget priorities and 12 policies, and the order of departmental budget review for 13 FY '06-'07 budget, review of department budgets, consideration 14 of matters having budgetary impact and other matters relating 15 to FY '06-'07 budget. I think we can talk about nearly 16 anything we want to, as long as it has money involved in it. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I was going to ask, did you 18 leave anything out, Judge? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I wanted to be able to talk 20 about nearly -- go any direction we wanted to. Ms. Rector 21 very recently provided me with some very preliminary figures 22 from the Appraisal District on -- on '06 tax values. She's 23 making copies of that now. She also pulled her last year's 24 report. Now, that deals with Kerr County only; it does not 25 include, to my understanding, Road and Bridge. The bottom 7-12-06 bwk 4 1 line of what she's going to bring us is going to say that 2 the -- the values subject to tax -- or increased tax over 3 actual, actually is increased by approximately $185 million. 4 That's Kerr County only. That does not include Road and 5 Bridge. But -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, I had a mental lapse 7 during -- while you were speaking. Will you say what you just 8 said again? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let me make sure -- do we have 10 the -- this is '06? Well, not -- the '05. 11 MS. RECTOR: The '05 is stapled underneath it. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay. 13 MS. RECTOR: The third page, I think. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 15 MS. RECTOR: Should be the 2005. It will say 16 Adjusted History, roll totals. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Page 2 and Page 4 give you the 18 numbers that you're looking for, I believe. The last page is 19 the freeze-adjusted taxable value, 2 billion, 140,015 million, 20 and Page 2 gives you this year's, 2 billion, 325,230. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. You're losing me, 22 Judge. Where do I see those numbers? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: They're at the -- the last year's 24 numbers are at the bottom of Page 4, the last page. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Page 4. 7-12-06 bwk 5 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Where it shows 2 billion, 140 2 million. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: That was the amount subject to tax 5 with the adjustment for the freeze last year. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: 2 billion-plus subject to 7 tax. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Uh-huh. Now you go to Page 2, and 9 that number, at least preliminarily for this year, is 2 10 billion, 325 and change. The difference between those two is 11 just short of $185 million. So, that's the increase in value 12 that we're looking at. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, can -- 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: In our current tax rate, 15 how much money is that 185 million? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: .3925? Isn't that what it is? 17 .3975? 18 MR. TOMLINSON: Approximately, yes. For both Road 19 and Bridge and -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: -- and M & O. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: How many dollars? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: I've got a calculator. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's that new one you got 25 there? 7-12-06 bwk 6 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, that doesn't have as many 2 spaces as this one, I don't think. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Leave off the last three. 4 MR. TOMLINSON: 100 million would be 400,000. 5 MS. RECTOR: 400,000. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, we might have $650,000, 7 $700,000 revenue? 8 MS. RECTOR: Yeah. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Increased revenue? 10 MS. RECTOR: Mm-hmm. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: I get 726,000. Does that sound about 12 right? 13 MS. RECTOR: Yeah. 14 MR. TOMLINSON: We ran -- 15 MS. RECTOR: 650. We ran them down. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I didn't hear your figure. 17 MR. TOMLINSON: She said 650. 18 MS. RECTOR: Yeah. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So, that's one number. But, 20 of course, that's a preliminary number, and we've still got a 21 ways to go. The Appraisal District will probably have their 22 certified rolls in, what, about 15 -- 23 MS. RECTOR: We hope by the end of the month. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can you go over effective -- 7-12-06 bwk 7 1 just a quick summary of "effective rate" calculations? 2 MS. RECTOR: Go over calculations? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, not the -- 4 MS. RECTOR: "Effective rate" is a rate -- is a 5 benchmark that raises the same amount of revenues you had last 6 year. That's what an effective rate is. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, with no rate change, we 8 have 650 or more thousand dollars to spend? 9 MS. RECTOR: Maybe. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Maybe. That's close. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess let me ask a follow-up 12 question on that. Well, is it a situation -- I mean, if 13 the -- you can't raise -- or we try not -- or I shouldn't -- 14 there's a rollback. 15 MS. RECTOR: There's a rollback. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The rollback rate is what? What 17 percent, or what amount? If you increase it more than a 18 certain percent over the effective rate -- 19 MS. RECTOR: 8 percent. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 8 percent over the effective 21 rate. If you're in a situation where you -- say G.M. decided 22 to build some facility here, and we all of a sudden got an 23 additional billion dollars in value. What does that do to the 24 effective rate? I mean, is it -- I mean, the tax -- to stay 25 below the effective rate, the County would lower taxes? 7-12-06 bwk 8 1 MS. RECTOR: Yes. The more value, the lower your 2 rate. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. Right. So, I mean, 4 'cause -- so, the more growth we get -- 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I see what you're saying. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, the more growth we get, the 7 -- and it gets to a point that you have to start lowering 8 taxes to keep from being subject to a rollback. 9 MS. RECTOR: Yes. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Have you calculated the 11 effective rate based on this new -- 12 MS. RECTOR: No. 13 (Discussion off the record.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Rector? The question was, have 15 you calculated a preliminary effective rate? 16 MS. RECTOR: I have not. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Based on the data. 18 MS. RECTOR: No, because I do not have all the 19 information from the Appraisal District. I have to have all 20 the property values. There's just a lot of other information, 21 new added values, lots of other things that go into the 22 calculation, and that all comes with the certified rolls. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: The other -- the other thing, as you 25 saw, I -- in order to try and see where we were cost-wise 7-12-06 bwk 9 1 on -- on COLA's, I asked for a new position schedule to 2 include the mandatory longevity and educational increases that 3 would be due under existing policies of court, and then COLA's 4 calculated at various amounts on those position schedules, and 5 I've not yet received that requested information from the 6 Treasurer. However, the Auditor, at my request, did a rough 7 calculation which does not include any of those longevities or 8 any of that. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Does not include? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Does not include the longevity or -- 11 or educational increases. What you have before you is the -- 12 what he projects as the salary cost for 9/30/06, and then 13 various COLA's on that only, but not including anything to 14 deal with the longevity or -- or educational increases. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Judge, the first two 16 numbers on that schedule lose me. 6/30/06, we go from 17 6 million, to 9/30/06, 8 million. 18 MR. TOMLINSON: That's right. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the total payroll cost to be 20 paid for this fiscal year through September 30. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 8 million? 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's not -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Two million a quarter, 24 right. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's not base salary; it's 7-12-06 bwk 10 1 year-to-date costs, 6 million. 2 MR. TOMLINSON: Right. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And projected total costs 4 are 8 million. 5 MR. TOMLINSON: That's correct. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- I believe either the 8 Judge or Commissioner Williams are going to look up the -- the 9 inflation rate. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: COLA. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The C.P.I. We've got it -- 12 we've got it to give you. We got it through the month of May. 13 June will not be posted until -- I've got it in there; I'll go 14 get it. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just roughly, I mean, where is 16 it? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're looking at pretty 18 close to 4 percent. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 4 percent. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: June won't be posted until 21 about another week. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Bill, does that include 23 gasoline? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's all goods and services. 25 And there are two different indexes; one's for all cities -- 7-12-06 bwk 11 1 U.S. cities, and one's for the southern sector. I got them. 2 I'll go get them. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: On the last -- last column, I used 4 4.1, and that's the number that I got off the web from -- from 5 Social Security Administration. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 4.1? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I -- Ms. Mitchell pulled up that 8 historical run for years, and I did a calculation through May, 9 beginning last October, and rounded, it came to 4.1, which is 10 the same thing he got off of Social Security. That was the 11 southern urban. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To me, it's really important to 13 try to -- I mean, as almost a budget priority, number one is 14 to do a COLA of that amount, because overall, County employees 15 are not highly paid, and the gas -- and inflation in general, 16 but gas especially this year hits them hard percentage-wise, 17 and I think that it's real important that we at least keep our 18 employees where they were previously. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think it -- I think it 20 would be wise -- and I know you've tried, Judge -- that we get 21 those automatic numbers, the longevities and those kinds of 22 things, built in as soon as possible so we can -- because I 23 agree with -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That would be step one, in my 25 opinion, seeing that the COLA's put in for employees. Is the 7-12-06 bwk 12 1 Treasurer's office the only place that that information is, 2 where the automatics are built in? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: That's my understanding. And that's 4 who I requested -- you gentlemen got a copy of my memorandum, 5 and I asked for it -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where -- is the Treasurer 7 here? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: -- Monday. This past Monday, 9 actually. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is the Treasurer here? I 11 mean, I don't see her in the room. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: No, she's not. I -- I'm not sure. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The index is -- Kathy's 14 pulling them off; she'll get copies for everybody. They'll be 15 in in a minute. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just think that's critical 17 information to hear. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: That's going to be added on. 19 Mandatory. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: That's going to be added. We don't 22 have any discretion about it. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Unless we repeal the policy, which I 25 think would be pretty draconian. 7-12-06 bwk 13 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let's start off on payroll 2 costs. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, absolutely. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And what we see, again -- 5 and I could calculate it. I haven't, but total payroll costs 6 are about 50 percent of our budget; they're about 10 million 7 of our -- including insurance, taxes, everything, maybe more. 8 And -- and, again, it's not 'cause we pay too much, 'cause we 9 don't pay too much. We probably don't pay a competitive rate. 10 So, the obvious answer is, do we have too many people? 11 MR. TOMLINSON: You had -- this -- on my worksheet, 12 the total COLA costs line could be somewhat overstated, 13 because there -- there are some salaries that I included that 14 aren't subject to retirement. So, that overstatement could 15 offset any, you know, longevities. So, I -- I feel 16 comfortable that these -- these numbers are overstated 17 somewhat. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, they're also overstated 19 because the Juvenile Detention Facility was staffed at a lot 20 higher level for half this year, and those numbers -- so 21 that -- that portion of it's built in. But it's good. I 22 mean, I think we'd like to err on that side at this point in 23 the process. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: We still -- as Commissioner Baldwin 25 said, we still need to know what that number is. And I don't 7-12-06 bwk 14 1 -- this year is not going to be a heavy year for longevity 2 increases, because '03 and '06 were, and last year we had a 3 heavy year, and this coming year I think is going to be less. 4 Obviously, for new employees we brought on last year, the 5 one-year is going to hit us, but I think overall, it's going 6 to be less this year than it was last year, but we still need 7 to know that number. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And we don't know the 9 education part of it, too; i.e., the Sheriff's Department and 10 their education bumps and -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Most of -- I think they're 12 pretty much maxed out. I mean, they've got -- I mean, not 13 maxed out, but a lot of their employees, I think, have got the 14 educational things that -- those have already been done. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know about that. 16 See, I'm not sure. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, yeah. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But you could -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But Rusty -- I mean, turnover -- 20 as we lower turnover, and we have county-wide, we have less of 21 an impact on that one-year -- 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Shhh, there he is now. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We still have enough 24 turnover, I think, in the jail that not a lot of people get to 25 that Step 2. But it's a whole -- you're right, it's probably 7-12-06 bwk 15 1 halfway. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The way I look at it is, the 3 police officers themselves, you have a lot of them on the 4 bottom rung, and there is a long ways for them to go to that 5 master's thing, so you never know where -- where they are or 6 how much they've gotten through the year, and that's -- those 7 are the kind of numbers I think that we need to start off 8 with. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I think we're going to see more of 10 them taking advantage to climb that ladder from basic to 11 intermediate, and then the two-step increase to master with 12 this Distance Learning Center that we've put on out here. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're not there yet. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: It's going to be more accessible to 15 them and easier for them to be able to do that, and I think -- 16 I think that's going to help the professionalism overall, but 17 it's also going to increase our costs. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, that's true. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: As -- as you can see from the 20 information that Ms. Mitchell was kind enough to make you 21 gentlemen copies of, with capital outlay being left to the 22 Court's discretion, and not having personnel items, what's in 23 between is not highly significant. I have gone through there, 24 and in various departments I've made some adjustments, some 25 up, some down. Probably more down than up, but I've made some 7-12-06 bwk 16 1 upward adjustments. There's some areas that I still have 2 questions. Last week, I requested each of the individuals 3 whose departments are affected to obtain a copy so that when 4 we have our one-on-ones, that they can know what I've done to 5 this point, but basically what I'm -- what I've been working 6 with is the middle portion of the budget; the personnel being 7 at the top, capital outlay at the bottom, and the portion in 8 the middle is -- is not highly exciting. That's the paper 9 clips, the pencils, the conferences, the equipment and things 10 of that nature. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Nuts and bolts. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Yeah, just the basics that go 13 with everyday operation of any department. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's look at one right quick 15 to make sure that -- 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- that I understand clearly 18 what you have done and what we are seeing. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And what we have here. I 21 just turned to County Judge. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What I'm seeing in pencil is 24 requested. Now, is that what you requested? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. 7-12-06 bwk 17 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This may not be a good 2 example here, but -- and then what -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Whoever -- whoever's budget that is, 4 that's what they requested in that column. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then you have changed 6 that number in some areas. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: In the next column. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: In the next column. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But it -- throughout this 11 budget book, I can clearly see what was requested, and then 12 your recommendation. You didn't -- you didn't wipe out their 13 request number? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: No, no. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Okay, so we're going 16 to be able to see everything. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- I think if you go 18 to -- Tab 6 is a good -- this is the first one I saw, is Court 19 Collections. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This shows requested amount, and 22 then it shows some penciled-in marks. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That are adjustments, in some 25 cases made by you. And in some cases, there's no adjustment 7-12-06 bwk 18 1 there; you just rewrote the number, correct? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And if there's nothing in that 4 column, you pretty much just carry it on through? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Either that, or it's a 6 personnel item. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Or it's a capital outlay item that 9 I'm not doing anything with. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: On that one, as an example, 12 it appears to me that -- on the bottom, the operating 13 equipment and capital outlay. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You've combined those, did 16 you not? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Are you looking at Collections? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm looking at -- 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Tab 6? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Where are you? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm sorry, I'm on 7. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, that's fine. Let's look at 7. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's a bigger one. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you see what I'm seeing 25 there at the bottom? 7-12-06 bwk 19 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did you combine those? Is 3 that what you did there, the last two lines? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. There was -- that may relate 5 to -- go back to Tab 4. See if -- no, it doesn't seem to. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I guess my question is, 7 are you proposing that we delete one or the other of those 8 lines? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: No. What I'm saying is, there was 10 some information that I had, and I can't lay my finger on it 11 now, to indicate that those were two capital-type numbers, new 12 machines. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You just linked them 15 together. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. I understand now. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: And sometimes -- if you'll refer back 18 to the I.T. budget, when you get down to some of those new 19 computers, new printers and so forth, the I.T. Manager gave us 20 a report suggesting that upgrades are needed for various 21 departments. I think the District Clerk has some in her 22 budget that the I.T. Manager has recommended. Another one, I 23 think Mr. Emerson, in his budget, has a new printer. That 24 came in belatedly a couple of days ago, as I recall. But a 25 lot of these relate back to the I.T. Manager's recommendations 7-12-06 bwk 20 1 for upgrading various equipment in various departments. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's pretty comprehensive. 3 But, again, depending on what the Court does on the issue of 4 human resources, that will have to be added to it if it's 5 decided, 'cause he wouldn't have known about it. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, that's true, yeah. Yeah, 7 anything in that respect is -- is going to be a brand-new ball 8 game for all of us. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I saw Barbara. Thanks for 10 coming up. 11 MS. NEMEC: Yes. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where are we on the -- I'm 13 sorry, I'm just keeping them all -- the longevity and 14 educational? 15 MS. NEMEC: I've got it right here. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 17 MS. NEMEC: I can give this to you all. What I have 18 done, I need to -- I was finishing this up this morning. And 19 the Juvenile Detention Facility just sent me over their 20 position schedule, and I want to compare it to what I have and 21 make sure that it's correct. And then, like, on here, I want 22 to take this -- and I haven't had a chance to do that, is take 23 this, compare it to the last payroll and make sure that 24 everything is correct. But I can go ahead and give this to 25 you. 7-12-06 bwk 21 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Preliminary. 2 MS. NEMEC: What I've done -- I know the Judge had 3 asked for a 3 percent, 3 and a half percent, and 4 percent, 4 but that's very time-consuming to do, so what I did was, I did 5 a step and grade schedule on a 3 and a half percent. I took 6 this step and grade schedule and changed all these to 3 and a 7 half percent, plus their longevity, and so I can hand this to 8 you. I'm working on payroll right now, and then, if y'all 9 want me to work up some other figures after tomorrow, 10 2 o'clock is my banking deadline for payroll; then I can do 11 that. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: For informational purposes -- and 14 we're going to take a look at it here momentarily, if you'll 15 be with us for a little bit -- we're looking at what that COLA 16 looks like it's going to zero in on, and the figure I've heard 17 to this point is 4.1. 18 MS. NEMEC: Okay. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: So, we may -- we may light on that or 20 some other figure here shortly, to give you some more guidance 21 about what you need here. 22 MS. NEMEC: And also, I got with the Sheriff this 23 morning -- or with Nancy, and I know that they're wanting to 24 get back on the same schedule. So, like I said, it's very 25 time-consuming, 'cause this all has to be figured out manually 7-12-06 bwk 22 1 and then put into Excel, and so I am scheduled to go and see 2 him tomorrow and try to get his people as close to this 3 schedule as possible. So, he's not in here. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you a question. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He's not in here? 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Still not in here. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Moving his schedule -- or 8 changing his schedule from the present way he does it to like 9 everybody else does it, does that require a court order, or do 10 you just automatically do it? 11 MS. NEMEC: Well, y'all would have to approve the 12 schedule. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 14 MS. NEMEC: Yeah. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But you're going to do it 16 anyway, and -- 17 MS. NEMEC: Because that's -- yeah, he wants to 18 propose that for your consideration. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 20 MS. NEMEC: And I think in past meetings, the Court 21 has kind of leaned towards going back to keeping them on the 22 same schedule, so -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have no problem with it. 24 I'm just looking, trying to figure out all the mechanics of 25 what we're doing. 7-12-06 bwk 23 1 MS. NEMEC: Yeah. No, y'all would definitely have 2 to approve that. So, we're going to get together. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: May be something you want to 4 consider in the next court meeting, so that she'll have a 5 definite -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- way to go before the budget 8 and know where it's going to be. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Get her done. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I sense there's a consensus 11 that that's the right way to go. Am I right about that? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- yeah, I think it 15 makes sense. But, John, is there a way -- I guess this is 16 being done in Excel right now? 17 MS. NEMEC: Yes. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there a way -- does the new 19 system have the capability to -- to build -- do the same thing 20 that we're doing in Excel? Or does this need to be done in 21 Excel? Seems like -- I mean, to me, this is a lot -- a very 22 time-consuming schedule that we have created for this county. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: To be honest, when John and I 24 did it, he educated me on how to do it in Excel. You enter 25 one figure and it changes it all the way across. It's a very 7-12-06 bwk 24 1 simple schedule to do in Excel. It just got out of whack over 2 all the years and made it confusing. 3 MS. NEMEC: And that is -- 4 MR. TROLINGER: That is actually the best 5 calculator, is Excel. 6 MS. NEMEC: And that is what I'm doing it with. I 7 just change this first figure and it changes it all, but it's 8 the position schedule. You have to take this, transfer it to 9 the position schedule, check to see who's up for longevity and 10 then calculate how many months at -- like, for instance, if 11 someone's longevity kicks in in January, then I have to 12 calculate on my calculator from October through the end of 13 December how many pay periods that is at a 15-1, and then 14 their longevity from January to September at a 15-2. So, 15 that's the -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can that portion be automated, 17 John? I mean, that's -- I mean, it just seems that we've -- 18 there's got to be a way to do this, I mean, in a simpler 19 format. 20 MR. TROLINGER: I believe there is a way to write a 21 script, if you will, a little English style program in the 22 financial software, but it would require assistance from the 23 vendor. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're not smart enough; is that 25 what you're saying? 7-12-06 bwk 25 1 MR. TROLINGER: It's not a simple thing to do. It's 2 not something Barbara can probably sit down and do at a -- you 3 know, in a couple hours. It's a big deal. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it would be worthwhile 5 doing it, because I think it's a -- I mean, we've adopted a 6 longevity policy and educational policy and all that, and I 7 think to have to manually pull out a calculator and redo it 8 for every -- I mean, it's probably -- I don't know what 9 percent of the employees, but every employee every third year, 10 so it's a -- it's an ongoing thing. If we could figure out a 11 way to automate that, it would be a big plus. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We need to do this. 13 Putting first things first, I suggest we light on a COLA, just 14 so that we can, you know, run payroll costs now. And we can 15 -- if need be, we can change that COLA later, but I'd -- we 16 ought to do that now. Where do we get this 4.1 percent? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're getting it off the 18 index there. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second page. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We've got two different 21 indexes. The long sheet is the C.P.I., all urban consumers. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's all goods and 24 services. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 7-12-06 bwk 26 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If you look at it -- if you 2 look at it from the end of the second half of 2005 through May 3 of 2006, you've got about a 5 -- you've got about a 5.1 -- you 4 got a 5.1 spread. If my -- if you look at the second one, and 5 you take the second table from one -- this is southern urban, 6 all items, instead of all urban consumers, U.S., is for is 7 southern region of the United States, which includes Texas. 8 You take a look at the second-half average, that's 190.5. 9 Based on the '82 index of '84 equals 100, and through May, 10 we're at 195.5, so that's showing about a point difference of 11 where it's actually showing 5 percentage points. The 12 second -- on the second page is a conversion table, and it 13 shows '05 total through the second half averaging at 4 points. 14 And '06, it hasn't shown the average, 'cause we haven't got to 15 the six months marker yet, which you can do it in your head, 16 and it's right at 4, 4.1 right now on that table. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let's go with 4.1. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 4.1, about where it is right 19 now, and the month of June will be posted by U.S. Department 20 of Labor, I understand, in about a week or 10 days. And so, 21 while we're in our discussions, we'll see what June brings as 22 well, how that affects the annualization. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: I got a strange feeling it's going to 24 kick it up even more, with fuel costs starting to affect a lot 25 of other goods and services that we're all feeling. 7-12-06 bwk 27 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Another tenth of a point or 2 two, perhaps. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Do you want to shave it up 4 to 4.2? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would be a good basis 6 to start right now, 'cause I got a feeling it's going to get 7 there. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let's go with 4.2. Tommy, 9 I've got a -- are you still here, Tommy? Yeah. I've got a 10 question on -- I like this rule of thumb COLA. Is that 11 one-tenth of one percent equals $8,200? 12 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes, sir. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, if I multiply 4.2 times 14 8,200 -- 15 MR. TOMLINSON: You can add 8,200 to the 381,000. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Three -- about 390. 18 MS. NEMEC: So, do you -- y'all want me to go ahead 19 and do another step and grade schedule with a 4.2, and then 20 transfer it to the position schedule? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I think that's what you're hearing. 22 MS. NEMEC: Okay. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you have a -- at least a ballpark 24 figure on the longevity and educational increases for the 25 coming year over last year? I believe you said you don't have 7-12-06 bwk 28 1 the Sheriff plugged in, though, do you? 2 MS. NEMEC: No, I don't. And the reason is because 3 when I did this schedule last night, what I did was I updated 4 our previous schedule to 3.2 percent, and then I just plugged 5 in -- you know, I went and checked who gets longevity this 6 year, and by department, it's totaled out, the total amount 7 for each department, what their payroll will be based on that. 8 So, I don't have it separated. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we're -- I mean, we 11 really need to get a total number, anyway. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, we need to know that. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, as soon as we can get that 14 and calculate a 4.2 -- 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Just start thinking about 16 it. If -- if COLA's around 400,000, step rates wouldn't be in 17 that same vicinity. Would they be 50,000? We don't know? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, I really don't know. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Don't even try to guess. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That got us in trouble one 21 other time. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think it -- I mean, it 24 quickly shows that, once again, we're in a tight year, and 25 we're talking about an increase of 700 -- was it $780,000? 7-12-06 bwk 29 1 $720,000, looks like, roughly, increase, and 400,000 of 2 that -- or more than 400,000 of it is going immediately to 3 keeping us where we are currently. 4 MS. NEMEC: There aren't too many that gets 5 longevity this year. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 'Cause it's the third -- 7 MS. NEMEC: Right. Last year was the -- the year 8 where it really hit us. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And I don't have very many at 10 all getting educational this year. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: On the educational front, 12 you got any movement? 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I have a couple, but not -- 14 it's probably less than five total employees. It's not that 15 much. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It won't be -- that's not a huge 17 number. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Most of that got taken care of 19 in the last few years. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Uecker, you had a comment? 21 Question? Concern? 22 MS. UECKER: I just want to remind the Court that 23 last year, y'all said you were going to look at this year, 24 moving the office staff that are at 12's to 13's, and the ones 25 that are at 13's to 14's, and you were going to ask the 7-12-06 bwk 30 1 Treasurer to get that figure. You know, 'cause you talked 2 about it last year and decided to postpone it till this year. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think that whole -- we 4 need to -- that, along with the Sheriff's whole issue of his 5 schedules being -- 'cause he is different than everybody else, 6 trying to get him back in line with the rest of the county. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And I think that issue and 8 those step and grades will also address some of -- here's 9 where it makes it a little bit more feasible to be able to do 10 that. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Say that again, Linda. 12 We're talking about 12's to 13's and 13's to 14's? 13 MS. UECKER: Mm-hmm, in the office staff. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, really, when we look at 15 that, I mean, that -- that's where we identify the problems, 16 primarily in those two areas. But every time we bump, it 17 really has a ripple effect throughout the whole system, so 18 it's -- you can't do them all at once. But that needs to be 19 looked at, and we probably -- you know, to keep from having to 20 run multiple runs, we probably ought to attack that and the 21 Sheriff and any other position changes that we think we need 22 to to really try to make and build that into the next run that 23 Barbara does, so we have it all at once. So, that's -- I 24 mean, if we're committed to doing that, get that off the table 25 to start with, and then look if we have any additional funds. 7-12-06 bwk 31 1 If there's anything else there, which it quickly appears that 2 we're not going to have any additional funds. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Do you want to go ahead 4 and -- and get the next run with that clerical staff bump from 5 12 to 13's and 13 to 14? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think you need to -- I think 7 we get ourselves into trouble when we arbitrarily start moving 8 positions round. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah, they're all 10 interrelated. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All of a sudden, you know -- and 12 I don't know the best way -- I don't know how we -- we almost 13 need to look at the whole step and grade system at once, and 14 kind of what -- who's where, and -- 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why don't we do that? Why 16 don't we look and see what's in that lower classification now, 17 entirely throughout the system, see where that takes us. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And also, I mean, I think you 19 have to look at the whole system as a whole, 'cause it is 20 related. You can't have a -- I won't say you can't have; you 21 can do anything you want. But we -- is it fair to have, you 22 know, someone who's got a lot of responsibility and, you know, 23 bonded and things of that nature, be paid just slightly more 24 than someone who's a new hire? I mean, that's not the type of 25 situation we -- so I think you have to kind of -- 7-12-06 bwk 32 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: As we're looking at the 2 system as a whole, though, and I agree that we should, one of 3 the questions in that looking at the whole thing is, what 4 would it be like to delete 12? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Line 12. So, I think we 7 ought to go ahead and run those numbers on a separate sheet, 8 to have them available. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do two? Do one a "what-if" and 10 -- a reality and a what-if? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Because we're going to 12 talk about deleting the 12's again anyway. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I really think that we probably 14 ought to -- I mean, we spent -- I don't know what we did. 15 When did we do the Nash study? Six years ago? 16 MS. NEMEC: Gosh, it was a while. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that we probably ought 18 to hand this off to Precinct 4 next year to -- to look at the 19 whole -- you know, compensation, salaries, step and grade as 20 their project for next year. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not a bad idea. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Got two for the price of one, right? 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Buenos días. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Welcome. 7-12-06 bwk 33 1 MS. OEHLER: Thank you. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think you did that last time. 3 MR. ODOM: My words exactly. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: When did you get back from 5 Mexico? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You may want to go back to 7 Mexico. But I think it's -- but it's -- and it may be 8 unrealistic to look at the whole thing this year. Maybe we 9 can't, but it's -- the reason we did the Nash study, as I 10 recall, is because we did some tweaking, and all of a sudden 11 got all out of alignment, and we're probably getting close to 12 being there again. And I don't know that you have to go over 13 the whole thing, but I think it does need to be looked at. 14 And next year is probably a better time to really to look at 15 that whole thing, and maybe make some minor adjustments this 16 year, 'cause it's a timely thing. You have to look at every 17 job description and every -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Don't you think that's 19 probably a function that would be put into the new department 20 to do that, come back with recommendations? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Possibly. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's kind of where I 23 thought you were going. You're off the hook, Precinct 4. 24 MS. NEMEC: So, you just want me to run the figures 25 as they are now, the positions? 7-12-06 bwk 34 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: On what? 2 MS. NEMEC: The position schedule. Do you want me 3 to change those 12's to 13's and -- 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think we want to know 5 what-all's in 12. What are we affecting here? What are we 6 moving forward, and what are we -- 7 MS. UECKER: 12's are entry level for all the office 8 staff. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What are they? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Entry level office staff at 12. 11 MS. UECKER: And janitorial. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Are Road and Bridge entry 13 level 12's also? 14 MR. ODOM: Sir? 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Isn't Road and Bridge entry 16 level 12? 17 MR. ODOM: No, sir, 14's. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 19 MR. ODOM: We took care of that several years ago. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: I think -- I think Commissioner 21 Baldwin's suggestion of having two separate snippets, as it 22 were, one what it's going to take to move 12's to 13's, and 23 another one 13's to 14's, and just isolate those two and look 24 at the individual costs. Go ahead and run your position 25 schedule as it is now with those two addendas to it. 7-12-06 bwk 35 1 MS. NEMEC: Okay. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: I assume that's what you were talking 3 about? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's exactly what I was 5 saying. 6 MS. NEMEC: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There -- the current step and 8 grade table, what's the break between each one? The -- 9 MS. NEMEC: Two and a half percent. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Two and a half percent. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Steps. Now, grades is five. 12 MS. NEMEC: Yeah, this way, across. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there -- how did the Court 14 end on five and two and a half? Where did that come from? 15 MS. UECKER: Nash study. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's just something -- is that 17 where -- it didn't exist prior to Nash? 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It actually started with the 19 Ray and Associates study way back. 20 MS. NEMEC: Way back. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I have all that documentation, 22 and then the Nash kept it. The Nash firmed up some positions 23 on it on the grades, but it started with the Ray and 24 Associates study back in the early '80's. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: '88 or '89. 7-12-06 bwk 36 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: When that was. I have that 2 documentation. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's -- I mean, I think 4 that it's a -- a next-year project. That might be -- the 5 whole thing is -- is that -- is that a good system? I don't 6 know if it is or isn't, but it probably should be looked at. 7 I mean, it's been around going on 20 years in this county, the 8 same format, and is that the way we ought to be doing it? I 9 don't see why we need to -- 10 MS. UECKER: Basically, the same that the federal 11 and the state uses. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or are we in line properly? You 13 know. So, anyway, that's more -- 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What you're talking about is 15 a possibility of funding another study? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maybe doing it in-house. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't think -- 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think if you'll look at the 19 step and grade schedule after Barbara and I get together, and 20 the auditor -- the outside Auditor y'all have hired already 21 looked at it, recommended it that way. It's not the one y'all 22 saw before. I think if, at the next Commissioners Court 23 meeting, we put that on the agenda to look at all that and 24 see, I think you'll see a lot of flexibility in it. It still 25 keeps the same -- what it does is, your steps across are two 7-12-06 bwk 37 1 and a half percent, but your grades down end up at 2 and a 2 half percent also, without changing any of the grades that the 3 courthouse employees are. It looks like a 12.5 and a 13.5 4 instead of just 12's and 13's, and it keeps it two and a half 5 percent down, two and a half percent across, and that way it 6 takes care of the problem we had with the deputies. They fit 7 in without getting a large increase, you know, that 100,000. 8 So, it only makes that about 50 a year, but it gives a lot 9 more flexibility in the entire step and grade system. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Anyway, what Rusty's talking 11 about doing there, you can do that with other departments. 12 You could basically double the height of it and create -- 13 instead of going from 13 to 14, you go from a 13 to 13.5, then 14 to 14. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It gives you a lot more 16 flexibility when you put it any step. I just think the Court 17 needs to see it, look at it and decide. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: The other big item in personnel that 20 I see before us is any restructuring additions or 21 subtractions. And that, of course, is going to affect 22 personnel costs. I'm not sure that we're really ready at this 23 juncture to move straight to that. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think that the -- and 25 I'll bring it up, because we have a lot of elected officials 7-12-06 bwk 38 1 and other department heads in the audience as well. I think 2 that you probably are all aware that we're seriously looking 3 at bringing in or doing a pretty big reshuffle, hopefully 4 trying to figure out a way to get a receptionist in the 5 courthouse and bringing in probably an H.R. person, and we're 6 looking at -- our discussion has been a lot of trying to 7 figure out how we can help every department head, elected 8 official in this restructuring. If there's functions that 9 y'all don't have to do that you're doing that can be done by 10 our receptionist, for example, such as handing out passport 11 information -- I'm not saying changing the passport, but all 12 that paperwork type thing, we want to know as to what 13 functions can be done by a receptionist-type person that's 14 somewhere on this first floor to keep people from going into 15 Jannett's office and Paula's office and asking questions and 16 being information directors, or coming into our office here. 17 Handing out forms, things like that, is really what 18 that -- and really trying to have a true receptionist that can 19 help the court -- whole courthouse is what that function or 20 job really needs to be. Part of that also is trying to 21 figure -- we're looking at incorporating how an H.R. person -- 22 well, as to how it all works. I think that we're at a -- 23 because of some personnel changes and some other things, it's 24 a -- and also the Court's looking at it for quite a bit of -- 25 fair amount of restructuring of departments that report to the 7-12-06 bwk 39 1 Commissioners Court, anyway. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you a question. 3 Trying to take it to the bottom line in English, do you see 4 having a receptionist that will hand out the paperwork -- is 5 there going to be enough in that to actually delete employees 6 in departments? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't know. I really don't 8 know. That's why -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that the kind of -- is 10 that what you're kind of thinking? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I wanted to see what kind of 12 work a person like that could do and help -- and to hear from 13 the other departments what they can do. I know Jannett has 14 said that it's -- is it going to delete an employee? Probably 15 not at this time. Is it going to increase the efficiency of 16 her office? Yes. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Depends on what you crank 18 into the job, too. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, depends what you crank 20 into the job. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If you crank in centralized 22 mailing, centralized telephone, and a lot of clerking 23 functions, that might have some potential. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I have -- we brought it 25 up several weeks ago. I think Jannett -- and I don't know if 7-12-06 bwk 40 1 Paula was in here at the time or not. There was support for 2 having a receptionist from the standpoint of it would keep 3 people from going into y'all's offices and asking questions, 4 especially I think more in Jannett's and Paula's. 5 MS. RECTOR: I don't know that you would be able to 6 train someone that -- 7 MS. PIEPER: That broad. 8 MS. RECTOR: -- broad to be able to answer the kind 9 of questions that come to our office, whether it be property 10 taxes, motor vehicle questions -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're not trying to do that. 12 I'm trying to get them to say -- you don't know how -- I mean, 13 y'all probably do, 'cause you're visible around here -- how 14 many times you walk out here and people don't know where to 15 go, and they wander into either our office or your office or 16 your office, just looking for directions. 17 MS. RECTOR: Yeah, every day. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Those people wandering in are 19 taking time from your staff doing their job. And is it, you 20 know, five hours a day or an hour a day? Whatever it is, it's 21 a fair amount of time, because you just go out there any time 22 of the day; there's people out there, and they wander in. And 23 that wandering in is a disruption to whatever office they go 24 into. 25 MS. RECTOR: Sure. 7-12-06 bwk 41 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's -- I mean, are they going 2 to be able to answer tax questions? Not the intent. "I have 3 a tax thing. Where do I go?" "Here, go to Ms. Rector's 4 office." If it's a question related to -- you know, if it's 5 people -- the public doesn't generally know, a lot of them, 6 you know, where to go for anything. We get in here countless 7 people trying to find the J.P.'s and wanting to pay tickets in 8 our office. 9 MS. RECTOR: May be totally unrelated to courthouse 10 business, too. May be City or Environmental Health or 11 U.G.R.A., and you've got to direct them to those various 12 locations. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And the telephone is equally 14 distracting. 15 MS. RECTOR: Yes. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In terms of the calls that 17 get directed in here, that -- where they don't know where to 18 go, and so that takes away from this individual's time doing 19 other things to direct calls all over the building. 20 MR. ODOM: Then it goes to Road and Bridge. 21 (Laughter.) 22 (Several speaking at once.) 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Don't know where to go? Send 24 them to Road and Bridge. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, the answer -- I don't think 7-12-06 bwk 42 1 it's a direct reduction in anyone's staff, but I think it 2 improves efficiency for all of them, and down the -- and, if 3 anything, it certainly delays the need for additional staff 4 down the road. And -- go ahead, Judge. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: As a reminder, keep in mind, we got a 6 court reporter here, and she can only take one person at a 7 time, so let's try and keep that in mind. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: She can only take one? Well, 9 there goes that salary, if she can't take but one at a time. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Going back to what I said 11 originally, it was -- if there's things that are being done in 12 an office, if it's handing out something, that can be done by 13 somebody that doesn't know anything about your office. Or if 14 y'all would rather have -- like, if it's passports, okay, it 15 needs to go to Linda. And if Linda would rather be -- I don't 16 know if you keep track of those things. It's just a question 17 to you all. Is there something that a receptionist that isn't 18 getting involved in your business at all can help you do 19 something? 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think that's the right 21 approach, to say, "Assume that we're going to have a 22 receptionist, clerical type somewhere on this floor. Now, 23 everybody that works in the courthouse, tell us what that job 24 can do for you." And if the answer is nothing, then we need 25 to know that. If there -- if you think creatively, there's 7-12-06 bwk 43 1 probably things it can do for you. And probably you're going 2 to connect that job somehow, if you have a human resource 3 function, with the clerical portion of the human resource 4 function. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Possibility. 6 MS. UECKER: Well, I can see where that -- that's 7 going to be useful for, you know, "Clerks office is this way, 8 the Tax Office is this way," but as far as giving out specific 9 information about the office itself and the information that 10 we provide to the public, I don't want anybody doing that that 11 I can't hire and fire. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't think that's the 13 intent. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The intent is to say, "I'm here 15 for jury duty. Where do I go?" And then how much -- 16 MS. UECKER: And that's good. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. And if it's -- they can 18 look at the -- they have to be knowledgeable enough to look at 19 the summons and say, "Okay, County Court at Law." More 20 likely, you need to go upstairs and check in. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Had a fellow walk in here 22 yesterday morning -- I just happened to be at the counter 23 doing something. He walked in; he's got a piece of paper that 24 directs him to the 216th District Court. Well, he sees 25 "Court" on the door, and he doesn't know where he's going to 7-12-06 bwk 44 1 go, so he comes in and he asks. "Go there upstairs, and 2 they'll take care of you." Tons of those. 3 MS. UECKER: Yeah, that would be good. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean -- yeah, and every time 5 someone comes into any of these offices down on the first 6 floor that gets the brunt of it -- you know, it may only be a 7 10-second interruption, but it's a 10-second interruption from 8 the job they're needing to do. And, quite frankly, in that 9 job and a lot of the other jobs, that person's being paid too 10 much to give directions. That person should be doing 11 technical type work and be more efficient than just walking 12 around giving directions, and that's probably the same with 13 everyone in all of these offices. They have functions, and 14 they shouldn't be giving directions. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He's getting a little nosy, 16 isn't he? 'Cause we're the hall monitors here. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In your territory, isn't he? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Intrusive. 20 (Discussion off the record.) 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think this conversation 22 actually started with cost of employees and number of 23 employees and all that, and I -- I thought we were going to 24 get to a point to where, if we hire a hall monitor, then we're 25 going to be able to reduce numbers, or with the new computer 7-12-06 bwk 45 1 system and the amount of work it does, that we would at some 2 point be able to reduce employees. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that was how we were 4 sold the computer system, but I'm a little bit leery about 5 bringing it up at the current point. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Probably this year, yeah. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Auditor? Based upon -- and I saw 8 Mr. Trolinger here, but apparently he had to step out. Where 9 we are in our transition over to the Odyssey system and new -- 10 and the new software that we've just put in? Is that going to 11 increase our efficiency in any of these offices at this point? 12 Next month or so? To the extent that -- 13 MR. TOMLINSON: I really can't -- 14 JUDGE TINLEY: -- we can reduce the number of 15 personnel. 16 MR. TOMLINSON: I really can't comment too much on 17 the Odyssey system. I know that it will help. I know that 18 it'll help us in what we do. I mean, because we can -- we 19 have access to reports that we -- we can actually -- for 20 instance, in the J.P. offices, if we want to audit a J.P. 21 office, we can tell the system that we want to see all their 22 receipts for a period of time. We don't have to actually get 23 the paper. We can print out receipts that they've collected 24 for one day or two days or -- or whatever we -- whatever we 25 select, and so we can actually -- we can actually do most of 7-12-06 bwk 46 1 our audit work in the office rather than having to go to their 2 office to do it. Right now, we -- to look at -- at receipts, 3 we -- for instance, for J.P. 4, we'd have to drive to Ingram 4 to do that, and now we -- we can, I think, actually do that in 5 the office. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What's Odyssey doing for 7 you, Sheriff? 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: A lot. Okay? It -- efficiency 9 on how much information we get in the system and how we can 10 get information from different courthouse stuff and how we 11 view it is -- is a dramatic improvement. Yes, there are still 12 some glitches in it, but they have the programming that 13 they've got to get worked out. Efficiency on -- on, you know, 14 having photographs in an actual case file instead of stored 15 somewhere else and you have to go get them and things like 16 that, that's where -- we were operating off 20-year-old 17 technology. Now the County is upgraded for this century's 18 technology. And what you're -- what I think you're really 19 going to see is not a reduction in any kind of manpower 20 anywhere. I think what you're going to see is a more 21 efficient, easier way to communicate, just like what's Tommy's 22 talking about, without having to go and get things. You can 23 get it. If the public wants -- the public information part's 24 going to have so much easier access to it on the County's web 25 site and a lot of that information, where it may help cut down 7-12-06 bwk 47 1 on -- 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's use an example that we 3 were talking about on Monday, the time card thing. That is 4 not working. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That hasn't really been 6 implemented that well yet, to where every employee in the 7 county's trained how to use it, because there -- there's so 8 many implications in it. Like, with my office being the 9 biggest one, I have a personnel clerk. But the timesheets 10 that we do fill out on computer, it's just on an in-house type 11 deal. The -- the individual employee fills it out; his 12 supervisor has to check it. They have three different forms 13 that they also have to fill out if they have overtime or 14 switching shifts or -- or taking comp time off or anything 15 like that. Then, at the end of the pay period, all that gets 16 compiled together. The personnel clerk doublechecks it to 17 make sure all the times match. You know, they've got a slip 18 for taking off if they took off this day. What we have to 19 look at in this new system is the approval part. I don't want 20 an employee just filling it out on that system and then 21 pushing "Submit" and it automatically going to Barbara without 22 it having been checked by other supervisors and that, you 23 know, check and balance. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with you. It should 25 not come to Barbara until have you signed off. 7-12-06 bwk 48 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Basically -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's pretty simple, from what 4 John said yesterday. If you don't have an access code to send 5 it, you can't send it. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We can't figure out why that 7 is not being done. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Because, number one, it's a new 9 part of the system, okay, that -- that I think even my 10 department -- me, I haven't looked at it. Because of how much 11 the system -- Odyssey changed 100 percent of everything that 12 we do, and we have been working the last few months getting 13 the bugs out of what we already have had and making sure our 14 reports are right and making sure that everything we've 15 already been doing is right, okay, and -- and is accurate. 16 And everybody's been spending their time getting all those 17 little things taken out before we start really using the 18 additional new things. We've had to get some -- some minor 19 stuff taken -- 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sheriff, I think it's the 21 sense of the Court that we want that particular module, the 22 payroll module, in service, ready to go by September 30. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's what I've told my 24 people. That's what I heard the other day. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The beginning of the new 7-12-06 bwk 49 1 budget year. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I told them, and I told 3 Trolinger yesterday, as soon as he gets a chance, I need to 4 sit down with him so I can see exactly all the steps through 5 it to make sure it works before I can start individually 6 having my 95 people, you know, trained in using it and making 7 sure that our checks and balances will still be followed. 8 MR. TROLINGER: I've looked at that. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There's no problem with it. 10 It's just learning it. 11 MR. TROLINGER: And I've looked at that. I've 12 really got to go to the department head level or the shift 13 supervisor level for the Sheriff's Office first to start this. 14 It's -- trying to make this change in one fell swoop I think 15 would create a lot of disruption. And it would probably help 16 Barbara also, because basically we're training in-house on 17 this new -- new software module that we have for electronic 18 time reporting. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You have two months to get 20 it ready. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, there are -- 22 Commissioner, there are things, just like little things -- 23 like right now on my jail census, I run a jail census report 24 which is supposed to always tell me who's in jail and what 25 charges they are currently in jail for. You know, somebody 7-12-06 bwk 50 1 may come into jail with 15 charges, and as those charges get 2 taken care of, that information is entered in the system and 3 that charge drops off. So, when I run a report and we go 4 through our main deal, which is our jail census, they're only 5 in there on active charges. Well, right now, the new system, 6 just programming and that, is not dropping off the charges 7 that are taken care of, so it's still showing them in jail 8 with charges that have already been taken care of, and we have 9 to individually -- and it's a software deal. It's a new 10 system, that there's just some things that -- that have to be 11 corrected. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Like -- I got one more -- 13 MR. TROLINGER: That's on the patch list. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I got one more question. I 15 want to get back on the time card thing. Now, let's just 16 pretend that we get Rusty up and running, get him trained and 17 on it and we're ready to rock and roll, electronically send 18 the timesheets over here. Barbara, is your office ready to 19 receive them and -- I mean, has everybody been trained to 20 where you're ready to receive them and -- 21 MS. NEMEC: We kind of touched on it with the 22 Auditor's office doing it, but I'm -- I don't think that at my 23 end, it would take much to -- 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, neither end is ready to 25 go, bottom line. 7-12-06 bwk 51 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's right. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just not ready to go. 3 MR. EMERSON: I want to throw my two cents in. And 4 correct me if my information is wrong, but I don't think 5 you're going to get the efficiency that you think you're going 6 to get out of your payroll system, because there is no 7 electronic time clock in the system. Therefore, all you're 8 doing is a glorified computer version of the handwritten sheet 9 that you're already doing. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Probably true. 11 MR. TROLINGER: That's correct. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We may have the efficiency 13 on this end, and maybe not on the input end. 14 MR. EMERSON: We'll be the only major company, for 15 lack of a better word, that I know of that has a computer 16 payroll system that doesn't have a time clock built in, where 17 your employee can come in, log into their computer, it clocks 18 in the time clock, and that's where their time goes. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why can't we do that, John? 20 MR. TROLINGER: It's something I didn't even think 21 about. Rex brought it up Monday, and I've got on it my list 22 to make a call and research it, see what we can do. 23 MS. PIEPER: And what's going to end up happening is 24 we're going to end up keeping two sets of books, because when 25 my deputy's in the computer, they're going to look to see if 7-12-06 bwk 52 1 that person was here 8:00 to 5:00. However, because we don't 2 pay overtime, my office doesn't, I do comp time. Then we'll 3 probably end up having another sheet of paper saying, okay, 4 you got 30 minutes overtime because of the jury trial or 5 whatever. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why can't we keep that in the 7 same system? 8 MR. TROLINGER: It's just another line item, the 9 comp time. It's just another line item on the electronic time 10 card. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's why I think -- I mean, 12 I'm not going to have a whole lot of sympathy for any 13 department keeping a second set of books because they don't 14 trust the system. 15 MS. PIEPER: Well, it's not that I don't trust it. 16 Right now, I don't know how to use it, but if I submit it to 17 Barbara, is the computer going to tell her to pay that person 18 30 minutes overtime? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, John just said it will be 20 in the same system. You -- 21 MR. TROLINGER: There's a distinction between the 22 comp time and overtime. 23 MS. PIEPER: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So I think you -- I mean, we 25 spent -- I'm going to say this probably 10 times or more 7-12-06 bwk 53 1 during the budget process -- over a million dollars on the 2 computer system at the recommendation of all the department 3 heads and elected officials. You all are going to use it, 4 period. I mean, it's that -- it's that simple. I mean, we 5 can't afford not to use it after we bought it. And it was 6 sold to this Court on the basis it's going to give us improved 7 productivity and decrease manpower needs. Now, is it going 8 to -- you know, and it's going to be real hard to see -- 9 there's not going to be a person in Linda's office that's 10 going to be saved, I mean, 'cause it's a little bit here, a 11 little bit there. But there should be manpower efficiency 12 gained by the system. 13 MR. TROLINGER: Let me give you an example to that. 14 The County Clerk's office just went to credit card payments, 15 taking online credit card payments, so, basically, now she 16 can -- 17 MS. PIEPER: But that has nothing to do with the 18 Odyssey program. Absolutely nothing. 19 MR. TROLINGER: Okay. So, the -- so the public can 20 now go to the public web site and look up their case and their 21 cause number; they can then go to the electronic payment 22 instructions and make their payment online. And that's 23 something the J.P.'s are also moving towards, and that's going 24 to reduce the foot traffic. It's going to stop the ramp up, 25 if you will, of the line of people waiting in the hallway to 7-12-06 bwk 54 1 make payments. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that the -- 3 MR. TROLINGER: It's not necessarily that it's -- 4 someone can be eliminated, because -- 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It goes to efficiency. 6 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And on those same lines, it's 8 like me with media requests. We get eight or ten of them 9 every day on, you know, our bookings, our releases, anything 10 that goes on at the jail. Now all that is set up to where it 11 automatically, at a certain time every morning, e-mails those 12 releases to that media outfit. I no longer have to print them 13 out, fax them, you know, do the cover sheets on the back. 14 It's efficiency that's fabulous. And the web site pulls up -- 15 they can pull up and see who was in jail, get their inmate 16 photograph off that web site when they do that. The 17 efficiency is going to be great. Will it save the number of 18 people? No, because now we also have the capability of 19 entering a lot of stuff into the system that we never were 20 able to enter before, and that's taking more time, but it has 21 to be done. It needs to be done on liability issues. 22 MR. TROLINGER: It gives you statistical reports and 23 whatnot. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 25 MR. TROLINGER: Better reporting. 7-12-06 bwk 55 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Auditor, you had a -- 2 MR. TOMLINSON: You asked for something about the 3 financial system, and I just wanted to give you an example -- 4 another example of -- of efficiency. From -- I mean, the 5 system has been all -- it's not all payroll. There's a lot of 6 other modules to this payroll system -- I mean to the 7 accounting system. This report that I gave you today, where I 8 got the number -- this number, this 6 billion, 41 thousand, 9 under the old -- under the old system or the prior system, 10 that process would have probably taken me a half a day, 'cause 11 I would have had to manually take the totals from each line 12 item -- each payroll line item and add them up manually to get 13 that number. In the new system, I was able to create a report 14 under the parameters that I wanted, and I did it in about 15 maybe 20 minutes. And I -- I did this report -- no more than 16 30 minutes, it took me. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There you go. You reduced 18 the Auditor's office a part-time employee. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: In fact, so there -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The Sheriff electronically 21 sends the information over; you eliminate two deputies having 22 to carry all that paperwork back and forth. I see where the 23 thing is going to save some money. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's going to cut back on 25 people. And it's a myth that technology doesn't reduce 7-12-06 bwk 56 1 that -- 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's going to neutralize the 3 County Clerk asking for two more deputies. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's right. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What's -- when's the last 6 time you saw a want ad for a key punch operator? There used 7 to be a few million of them in the U.S. workforce. Same way 8 with drafters. There's no occupation left for drafters; PC's 9 eliminated them. What I'm hearing is, it's not going to help 10 us here; we're going to spend a million dollars for it, and we 11 still need as many people as we ever did. Maybe that's why 12 those 14 other counties are operating with less people. 13 They're better at using the technology. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Maybe. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't know. Could be. 16 MR. TROLINGER: There's a lot of initiative involved 17 in taking advantage of the new software programs, and a few 18 departments have done that. But it does move the data entry 19 from the -- from the counter, if you will, to the web site, 20 and there are a lot of examples where the data entry's being 21 done by the payee, for example, instead of someone at the 22 counter with people in line. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: One very major deal that it 24 did -- or that it will do, is three months ago in a federal 25 lawsuit we had, I got the discovery granted by a federal judge 7-12-06 bwk 57 1 saying I had to go back and pull every incident report and 2 every sick call for five years for anybody that fell in a 3 cell, fell off a bunk or had a seizure. Okay, all that had to 4 be done by hand through five years of paperwork, searching it. 5 We worked for three weeks to meet the deadline until after 6 midnight going through individual reports. The new system 7 allows all those reports to be entered in the system at the 8 time that they happen, and then I can pull it back out by 9 pushing a button and asking for it. That's your efficiency 10 difference. It's things that come up that, all of a sudden, 11 you're spending hours of stuff to research, where we can 12 research it in the new system in a matter of minutes. 13 MR. TROLINGER: But you've got more data entry to do 14 now as a result. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: A lot more data entry. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that -- hopefully, all 17 of y'all understand this -- that this discussion is not 18 unrelated to the step and grade discussion. We cannot -- we 19 don't have the money to just increase grades or steps, either 20 one, for that matter, or percentages without doing staff 21 reductions. We just can't do it. We don't have the money 22 coming in, and the taxpayers of this county I think have said 23 to me loud and clear, they do not and will not support any 24 kind of a tax increase, you know, for just operations. I 25 mean, maybe for a specific, you know, function we can get 7-12-06 bwk 58 1 something through, through a bond issue type thing or through 2 a tax certificate, something like that, we've done some of our 3 projects with. But under operations, I think it's been loud 4 and clear, there is a tax freeze. I mean, City of Kerrville's 5 going to have a real hard time not implementing a tax freeze. 6 I don't really support it. I didn't support it on the Court; 7 everyone knows that, but the community certainly does, and 8 that's how this community feels about taxes. So, we're not 9 increasing taxes. I just don't see that happening. The 10 public doesn't want us to. So, if you all want us to pay more 11 for employees, the money's got to come from somewhere, and 12 we've got to have some -- and that's what we're trying to do, 13 is just trying to get feedback as to, you know, how can we do 14 this? Where can we make efficiency savings? We bought the 15 technology that we wanted; now we need the manpower reduction. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Uecker is volunteering to go. 17 MS. UECKER: Yeah, I'm leaving. (Laughter.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: She had her hand raised there. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I didn't come up with this, 20 but -- 21 MS. UECKER: Well, to let the Court -- 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- I don't own my house. 23 I'm renting it from local government. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, ma'am? 25 MS. UECKER: We will use the system. It is going to 7-12-06 bwk 59 1 improve efficiency. Unfortunately, the glitches have been 2 very significant. They're not little glitches; they are huge 3 glitches. For instance, our financial reports are taking 4 about three times as long right now to do as they were before, 5 but it's a glitch; it's a big glitch. Our CJIS report, we are 6 about five months behind right now submitting CJIS reports, 7 because there's a huge glitch at the Sheriff's Department, and 8 until it gets fixed there, I can't do a thing with it. And I 9 guess Jannett can't either. I think it needs to be considered 10 that right now, I have at least a 25 percent increase in 11 filings, and I'm not asking for new staff, so I think in that 12 capacity, it is -- it will be more efficient, but now we're 13 having a real hard time. I've got people staying voluntarily, 14 you know, after 5:00 to try to get caught up. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And some of the savings are 16 clearly not going to be as quick as we had thought and hoped, 17 but as long as they're coming -- as long as -- 18 MS. UECKER: They're coming. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- they're going to be there is 20 the important thing. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: That was the reason for my question 22 to the Auditor a little bit ago about his take on how the 23 transition is going, and whether we're starting to get 24 increased efficiency yet or how much longer it's going to 25 take. And I understand that we may have us a delayed 7-12-06 bwk 60 1 efficiency factor here, and I think we can all accept that and 2 understand why that might be, if -- if there's got to be a 3 learning curve. The other thing that I think we possibly need 4 to have from the Auditor that I'm not sure we have in-hand, 5 but we need to have before us, we have -- we have at least one 6 obligation I can think of that's a fixed obligation for this 7 coming budget year that we did not have in the last budget 8 year that we're going to have to be mindful of. This system. 9 We're going to have to pay a chunk of money for this system 10 this year, and we need to know what that figure is, 'cause 11 that's over and above what we were looking at last year. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Didn't something come off -- 13 didn't another tax anticipation note come off this year like 14 that? 15 MR. TOMLINSON: It was off last year. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Last year? Last year. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: So, that's something that we're going 18 to need to know what we're looking at in terms of fixed 19 obligations for this coming budget year. 20 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. I -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: That we weren't looking at last year. 22 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't recall -- I already know 23 that's, you know, in the requested budget. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 7-12-06 bwk 61 1 MR. TOMLINSON: It's in there. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, it's not in any -- in any of 3 these sheets that I'm working off from the departments. It's 4 in the -- 5 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't recall what the amount is. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, it's in the preliminary summary 7 schedule, I think, isn't it? 8 MR. TOMLINSON: It's -- I have -- I have estimated 9 -- well, I know what the payments are going to be, and I set 10 up a revenue or a department to collect tax for that, and I 11 have that amount in the -- on the revenue side. And, however, 12 that is -- that's a qualified debt, and that's -- that's 13 different from -- from operation rate. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I understand. But the bottom line 15 is, we need to be mindful of that in looking at what we have 16 to work with, because that's coming off the top any way you 17 look at it. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Is the -- 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Any new debt. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Those costs you're talking 21 about, are they in this budget we've got now? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: They're in the overall budget, but 23 they're not in the various departments' budgets that you're 24 seeing. You don't see that reflected. We're looking at, 25 what, about $230,000 or something, ballpark, on the Odyssey? 7-12-06 bwk 62 1 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't remember. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: May not be quite that much. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think it's less than that. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, it's going to be about 230. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Five-year -- 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Wasn't it rolled in with a 8 different -- I thought it was combined to keep the debt more 9 level on another note. 10 MR. TOMLINSON: I didn't bring that with me. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What other -- 12 MR. TOMLINSON: I know exactly what it is. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: It's about 225,000, $230,000, 14 ballpark, though, isn't it, Tommy? 15 MR. TOMLINSON: I think it's more than that. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tommy, the -- so, last year the 17 courthouse renovation rolled off. Is it next year that the -- 18 or the year after when the -- 19 MR. TOMLINSON: Radio. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- radio towers -- when's that 21 coming off? Next year? 22 MR. TOMLINSON: Next year. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Next year this one comes off, so 24 one more. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Next -- the upcoming budget 7-12-06 bwk 63 1 year, it's off. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have one more year. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: We have one more -- 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One more payment. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think when the courthouse 6 renovation rolled off, about the same amount of money came in 7 for Juvenile Detention Facility. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, exactly. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So that -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That equaled out. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: About a wash. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, this is going to be a -- up 15 this year, and then next year we drop off the -- the radio 16 tower -- or the communications system. 17 MR. TOMLINSON: Right. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Which should be a pretty 19 comparable amount to what we're -- maybe it's a little bit 20 less. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. The principal amount is 22 almost a -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's over a million dollars, 24 though, so actually probably a little bit -- come out a little 25 bit to the black. 7-12-06 bwk 64 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I don't know where 2 you're -- how you -- where are you going to go from here? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Wherever you want to go, 4 Commissioner. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just have a question. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And kind of -- it's really a 8 question, and it's about people that are tapping into our 9 system that are illegal aliens. I kind of understand the 10 court issue that we dealt with on Monday, the interpreter and 11 those other costs. When somebody breaks the law, we arrest 12 them and run them through the court system. I understand 13 that. But are there any other places in county government 14 that -- any social services that we provide to people that are 15 in this country illegally that tap into our system? Are there 16 other places? Because I'm going to vote no to do that. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: You make a good point. Of course, on 18 the -- the defense costs, those are covered by court 19 decisions, and I don't think there's anything new along that 20 line -- is there, Rex? -- that allows us the ability to 21 exclude providing them -- if they have the same indigency 22 status as citizens, to -- to deny them attorneys? 23 MR. EMERSON: Not that I'm aware of, no. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: I mean, we -- we're giving lawyers to 25 the Al-Quaida folks now. 7-12-06 bwk 65 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I understand that part 2 of it. But, you know, like, as an example, -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Indigent health. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- indigent health care. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They're in that line. With 6 what the Court action did the other day with the new company 7 that's going to do the indigent health care and all that, that 8 may -- I got to thinking about it afterwards because of the 9 effect it's going to have on inmates and all that. That 10 inmate medical expense will end up going into that, which goes 11 into the factor in the 8 percent. That may -- except for what 12 we pay our jail doctor, which isn't that much; it's a contract 13 deal. That has the potential of cutting almost $200,000 out 14 of my budget, because it all goes into the indigent deal 15 instead of the -- instead of the jail medical. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, but it drives the 17 indigent up quicker. All you're doing is shifting from the 18 left pocket to the -- 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But it goes toward the 20 8 percent max, which none of that counts towards that 21 8 percent max right now or whatever. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't think it's a direct transfer. 23 I think if his cost is 200, by the time it gets -- if it goes 24 into indigent health, it's significantly less than 200, maybe 25 120 or something. 7-12-06 bwk 66 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let us hope. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: So there's -- I think there's a 3 savings there. But under the current program that's mandated 4 by the state via the feds, there's not any way that I'm aware 5 of that we can exclude persons who cannot establish that 6 they're in this country legally. And according to Ms. Taylor, 7 who is our representative at the hospital now, she says that's 8 a very, very small part of indigent health care. I was really 9 surprised at that, and I'm sure you remember it, because we -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: She had two on the books, I 11 think. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: At that time. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: But she says that's a very, very 15 small part of it, and I was rather surprised at that. So -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I just can't imagine a 17 federal or state law mandating the taxpayers to pay for 18 someone that's not here legally. I -- I don't believe that. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Imagine it. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just don't believe it. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, it's the courts. The 22 courts have done it. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, sure, people are doing 24 it. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You know, courts have mandated 7-12-06 bwk 67 1 you will do it. That's what they did with the whole jail 2 system. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But you're seeing communities 4 all over this nation saying no as well. We don't care what 5 you say, we're not paying it. So, that's kind of where I'm 6 at. I think it's absolutely asinine, ridiculous. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't disagree with you at 8 all. So, what you're saying is you want us to pass an order 9 -- I would support this, I think -- that indigents -- no 10 health care funds can go to indigents -- to illegal aliens off 11 indigent health care. I mean -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a good start, yeah. 13 That's a good start. My question is, where throughout our -- 14 the county system -- you know, I understand the court system. 15 People that break the law, I want them -- I want them put in 16 jail for a long time. And -- but indigent health care, I 17 don't understand. Are there other places in our system that 18 they tap into? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There are other places. I'm 20 not sure it's in the county system. For example, temporary 21 assistance for needy families, those are federal tax dollars, 22 and they roll down in a different direction. Doesn't 23 necessarily reflect in the county budget, but there are other 24 ways that they're tapped in. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Those agencies that we do 7-12-06 bwk 68 1 fund, I'm drawing a blank on. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: CASA. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: CASA. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do they provide services to 6 people that are not legal? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, on occasion I would imagine that 8 they do. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There it is. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Your C.P.S. cases where lawyers are 11 provided when children are going to be removed from the home, 12 those are civil cases. That's another area I think that 13 there's no distinction made whether they're legally in this 14 country or not. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maybe it's a question we can ask 16 Rex to research. Can we withhold funds for -- I mean, 17 obviously, for giving a lump sum to CASA, make it a 18 requirement to that interlocal -- or to that contract with 19 CASA or whoever. Can we do anything to say that we're not 20 going to provide indigent health care to illegal aliens? 21 MR. EMERSON: I think the proper response would be 22 to ask the Court to give me a list of each and every one of 23 the services that you want to withhold support of, because 24 they're all going to have separate legal bases, and then let 25 me start picking it apart one at a time. 7-12-06 bwk 69 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Indigent health care would be 2 the one that is, to me, the most obvious. The other reality 3 is that CASA -- they're going to say, yes, we're not going to 4 use Court funds for that, and they may use other funds for it. 5 That's how I suspect they get around it. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The defense for Child 7 Protective Services came down as a state mandate. What are 8 you going to do about that? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, that's what I'm saying. I 10 mean, that's what Rex is saying; ask him to look at specific 11 ones. Indigent health care is an easy -- not necessarily from 12 Rex's standpoint, but easy for me to understand. 13 MR. EMERSON: I can look into it. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I certainly -- I think there may be a 15 liability issue if we attempt to do it in any of the criminal 16 cases, persons accused of crimes, because a large portion of 17 those defense costs -- I say a large portion. Some portion 18 are reimbursed by the state via the feds under the Fair 19 Defense program. So -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: -- I wouldn't want to jeopardize 22 getting those funds back. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think there's also -- 24 yeah, when you get into the -- I think Buster said that the 25 criminal part of it, that's under a whole different bailiwick. 7-12-06 bwk 70 1 Where there is a non-jail inmate on indigent health care. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Why don't -- if we're through kicking 3 that one around, why don't we take about a 15-minute recess, 4 give Kathy a break here, and we'll come back and chew on 5 whatever else we need to chew on. 6 (Recess taken from 10:26 a.m. to 10:55 a.m.) 7 - - - - - - - - - - 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order. 9 We're in our workshop relating to budget matters, matters 10 having budgetary impact. What else do we need to resolve here 11 this morning? I heard one comment that we need to come up 12 with a schedule on consideration of various department 13 budgets. That certainly seems to be one item that we need to 14 do. Do you want to work on that? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My question is, before we get 18 into actually setting dates, is have the individuals come in 19 and we just have -- like we've always done, have the 20 discussion and, you know, "Why do you need Number 2 leaded 21 pencils?" And -- 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, what I've done, Commissioner, 23 as in -- very similar to past years, when I asked for budget 24 requests, I told them at the time that other than mandatory 25 increases for longevity and education and a COLA, which the 7-12-06 bwk 71 1 Court requested be plugged in, and I think we had enough of 2 that today, I was not going to -- I thought any other 3 personnel type matters was a matter for the Court to fully 4 discuss and come down on. And I was not going to make any 5 specific recommendations there with regard to capital outlay; 6 of course, those items are for the entire Court. Having said 7 that, that's primarily what you're going to be hearing from 8 each department, I suspect. But I did tell them -- each 9 department or each elected official that, certainly, they were 10 free to come to the Court and discuss any modifications I had 11 made. If I -- if I made a change in what they requested, they 12 could -- they were perfectly at liberty to ask us whatever 13 they wanted. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, we'll schedule the 15 departments on certain hours on certain days, and when they 16 come in here, they can, of course, have the freedom to discuss 17 anything, anywhere. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Exactly. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm good with that. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: But I'm hopeful that -- I'm hopeful 21 that most of the -- I'm going to call it the ordinary, 22 relatively unimportant stuff, I will have gotten resolved by 23 virtue of my -- my contact with the departments. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: So that what you guys are dealing 7-12-06 bwk 72 1 with are the major items, the personnel issues and 2 restructuring and things of that nature, and then the capital 3 outlay items. That stuff will be pretty mundane. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What I'm thinking is, prior 5 to you, we have seen the system work in the way that you've 6 just described, and then later on, the County Judge changes 7 some numbers and we don't know it, and the elected official 8 didn't know it until his budget time, so I just wanted to make 9 sure that we all get everything out on the table. And, I 10 mean, this was prior to you. I'm not -- I just don't want 11 that to happen any more. We need to make sure that 12 everything's -- all the changes and things are out on the 13 table and everybody's -- everybody understands what the number 14 -- actual numbers are to go to print in the actual budget. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Commissioner? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One other -- I'm sorry, 17 Dave. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'd like to take these 25 19 different tabs -- or these categories and establish a schedule 20 that, in two sessions or three sessions or whatever is 21 reasonable, that we're going to go over each of those budgets 22 that's in this book. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let's pick the dates. Then 24 we can decide. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And invite the supervisor 7-12-06 bwk 73 1 or elected official to be here when we do that, so -- so we 2 don't go along having people sitting in here that don't have 3 an interest or don't want to be here. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're going to pick the 5 dates that we're going to meet, and then assign those. But we 6 also have one other, Judge, that falls outside the category of 7 mundane, and that is our contracts with the City of Kerrville 8 for various and sundry joint projects. That's going to 9 have -- that's going to have a major shaping of our thinking 10 here. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Those numbers are not scheduled to be 12 presented to the City Council until two weeks from yesterday. 13 That's the earliest they're going to be presented to City 14 Council, according to my understanding. We have a joint 15 meeting with the City on August the 9th to try and work those 16 numbers. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me say one thing. The -- 19 the ambulance and the fire contract information numbers are 20 supposed to arrive here in writing this week, so you'll have 21 that much to go -- to go on. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Just to begin chewing on. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, to what -- to what will 24 be presented to the City Council. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: EMS and fire? 7-12-06 bwk 74 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Correct. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we'll have -- we'll have 3 a proposal on an airport number by today. Actually, I think 4 we already have a proposal, but I don't think it's going to -- 5 that's what the final number's going to be. My question is 6 that -- you know, and I don't know how we get this across. I 7 couldn't be more unhappy with the City's response for trying 8 to meet with the County this year. And I wish there -- we 9 don't have any press here today. We were -- we tried to set 10 up this meeting as early as the 1st of July or late June with 11 every -- and tried to get them to come every way we could to 12 meet with us in a meaningful time, and once again, they just 13 stonewalled and basically refused to meet, and kept on -- 14 every time we had a date settled, then they'd cancel it and 15 cancel it, and now we're up until, you know, the second week 16 of August, which makes this meeting meaningless from our 17 standpoint. We have to have our budget pretty much done by 18 then. And it just really irritates me, and I don't know how 19 we, you know, convey this to the City. I mean, if they -- I 20 personally don't see the point in meeting on August 9th. At 21 that point, it's done. We don't have time to make changes in 22 these things of any significance. And it really bothers me 23 of -- and I don't know if it's the mayor, I don't know if it's 24 the City Manager. I don't know where the problem was over 25 there, but it -- I mean, I'd hate to count the number of 7-12-06 bwk 75 1 e-mails of Kathy trying to schedule a meeting with the City 2 Council. It is ridiculous. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It has been. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think it's bad-faith 5 bargaining. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think they had any 7 intention of meeting with us, personally, the way they've done 8 it. Only reason I bring it up is because we're talking about 9 city contracts right here. You know, if it wouldn't -- I 10 really think it's a waste of time, you know, to meet on 11 August 9th. I mean, I'm not going to -- you know, we'll try 12 to work on these individual ones. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's exactly the reason I 14 asked them to get those numbers over here in writing this 15 week. And far as I'm concerned, we can move forward with the 16 numbers that they provide us this week. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, we're going to get EMS 18 and fire soon. We'll get airport soon. We've already got the 19 library. So, I -- sounds like we're being invited to act 20 unilaterally on those contracts. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. I mean, I don't see the 22 point of meeting on the 9th, is my bottom line. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, that's the other option that we 24 have. We work off the best available information that we 25 have, and we get -- we light on a preliminary number and 7-12-06 bwk 76 1 communicate it to them. And if -- if the information flow is 2 as you've indicated, it may well be that that's an item we 3 want to address next Tuesday afternoon on our budget workshop 4 session that we've already got scheduled. Because I -- 5 Commissioner Williams is right, those are some of major, major 6 components of what we're going to have to look at, and -- and 7 represent some significant potential increases. And I think 8 it may be well just to go ahead and do some preliminary work 9 on that next Tuesday, and maybe communicate some -- some 10 initial numbers to the City of what our inclination is. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, really -- I think where 12 I'm going with this, I'd like to see us correspond with the 13 City and say we're glad to meet with y'all, but we can't wait, 14 and we have told you this, for our budget. Our numbers are 15 done, and we don't need to talk about budget numbers at this 16 meeting. We'll be glad to meet with y'all, but we've done our 17 budget. We told you we were going to have it done by the 1st 18 of August, and we're done. We're not going to reopen this 19 whole can of worms, because there's no point to discuss it at 20 this point. Even if they come in good faith to discuss some 21 of these items, we don't have time to make major changes in -- 22 you know, in funding and things, and neither do they at this 23 point. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let's schedule a discussion 25 of those budgets, just like we are everything else, and 7-12-06 bwk 77 1 communicate that schedule to the City. If somebody -- 2 somebody from the City wants to show up and represent the 3 City -- 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We ought to pick those up at 5 our next meeting. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's a good idea. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let me ask you -- just a 8 detail. Have we communicated the Rabies and Animal Control 9 initial proposed budget to them? I haven't. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't think -- no, I have not. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. Would you do that? 12 Send this -- send the City Manager a copy of the proposed 13 budget? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What time's our next meeting 16 for the 18th, Judge? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: 1:30. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 1:30. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a perfect time. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's right after lunch. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: 18th? Yeah, let's talk 22 about those three things first; EMS, fire, airport, library, 23 and Rabies and Animal Control. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Three items? 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Four things. 7-12-06 bwk 78 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think you named five. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All city. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think Commissioner Letz is 4 right; we'll probably have a pretty good handle on what the 5 airport budget's going to be after this afternoon. We have a 6 joint meeting this afternoon. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's all of our joint 8 operations, isn't it? Those things? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: No, we've actually got the Recycling 10 Center. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I just -- 12 JUDGE TINLEY: We own it; they operate it, but we 13 generally don't have any -- 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We don't pay any part of 15 the operating costs? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: No. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's okay. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, next Tuesday we're doing 19 all City/County? 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Joint ops. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Joint ops. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And if you'll communicate that 23 to the City, that we can't wait until August 9th; we're going 24 to do our numbers now, and we'll be glad to see them and talk 25 about whatever they want other than budget items on the 9th. 7-12-06 bwk 79 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, you please do it. 2 Don't let Letz send the message. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: I was going to let him draft the 4 letter, let you sign it. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, no. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: After this afternoon -- 7 there will be plenty said this afternoon. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We sat down and talked 9 about one of these items last year. City Council met with us 10 and advised us early on, "I'm not here to negotiate." Well, 11 what the hell's the purpose of the meeting? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: "Non-negotiable" was the 13 term. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what we heard, Judge. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You talk to them. Y'all don't 16 want me talking to them either. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've already had that 18 conversation. I told them -- I told the City Manager and the 19 Fire Chief, "Do not come to our table with the word 20 'non-negotiable' on your lips." 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We need to think about some 22 additional days to do the departmental budgets, it appears, 23 right? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: And then I can work with Commissioner 7-12-06 bwk 80 1 Nicholson in working up -- going down this index, and we'll 2 work up a schedule, and we'll print it up and distribute it to 3 all the elected officials, department heads, and members of 4 the Court. How does that sound? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sounds good to me. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Would not have sounded good if 7 I'd have mentioned working with you to do that, right? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That is correct. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess, to any elected official 10 here, do they have any -- well, why don't we pick the dates 11 first, then see if we can accommodate some of them, instead of 12 just trying to fit them in when, obviously, you're going to be 13 here, if you're going to be out for a while. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The second one's the 18th. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: When? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you want to try the following day, 17 the 19th? 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What day of the week is the 19 18th? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Tuesday. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I can do it in the afternoon 22 on that day. I got AACOG in the morning. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How about Thursday? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Thursdays -- 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm wide-open. 7-12-06 bwk 81 1 JUDGE TINLEY: I've got juvies in the afternoon and 2 probate in the morning, so I don't have much time on 3 Thursdays. Mondays and Tuesday mornings are not good for me. 4 Wednesdays and Fridays are my best day. Tuesday afternoons 5 are okay. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How about Friday morning? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I can do it Wednesday 8 afternoon, if you want to do it Wednesday afternoon, the 19th. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Wednesday afternoon at 10 1:30 again? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I can be back by 1:30. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're going to miss your 14 meal. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, no meal on this one. 16 The following Wednesday has a meal. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: How about two more dates? 18 Tuesday and Wednesday, the 18th and 19th. How about Tuesday 19 and Wednesday of the next week? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I like it. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tuesday, the 25th? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Correct. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That does not work. I'm at 24 Region J all day. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 7-12-06 bwk 82 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: How about Monday? That 2 doesn't work for the Judge. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: That's court day. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Commissioners Court. How about 5 -- well, we can do it -- 6 JUDGE TINLEY: The following day, the 26th, is okay. 7 Want to start at 9:00 on the 26th? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm out-of-pocket on the 9 26th. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: On the 26th, you're gone? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: AACOG. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, okay. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is this an all-day -- 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the one that -- yeah, 15 it's all -- most of the day. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Wide-open on Thursday. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How about Friday? He's -- 19 that's not good for him. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Thursdays are always bad days for me. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Friday? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Friday is wide-open. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: 28th? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: 9 o'clock a.m. the 28th? 7-12-06 bwk 83 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Friday, 28th of July, 9 a.m. 2 (Discussion off the record.) 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let's see if we can fit it 4 into those three dates, 18th, 19th, and 28th. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's going to be hard to 6 do. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Unless we can -- 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let's set it for what day? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Excluding the Sheriff, we can do 11 it. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What about the afternoon of 13 Monday, the 24th, after Commissioners Court? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, why don't we do that? 15 That will work. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 'Cause we're all here 17 already. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Except I got juveniles at 3:00. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sorry about this. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 24th? That's not good for 21 me, either. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Let's go to the following 23 Monday, the 31st. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: 31st? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That works. 7-12-06 bwk 84 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: 9 a.m. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. That ought to be plenty, 3 shouldn't it? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That ought to be plenty to get 5 it in. That way we're done by the 1st of August. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Done by the 1st of August. 7 Do we know -- Judge, do we know everything we need to know 8 about employee health insurance costs? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I've got Mr. Looney coming -- glad 10 you mentioned that -- next Tuesday at our workshop to give us 11 those budget numbers. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Good. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: So, in addition to the City, we're 14 going to have health benefits. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: At what point -- I mean, we've 17 talked a lot about some reorganization and doing some things. 18 At what point are we going to -- I mean, it's pretty -- these 19 are pretty important budget-wise. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Need to get that resolved 21 before you start cranking the handle. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, it almost -- I'd recommend 23 we get at least a format for doing that done on the 18th, too. 24 When we leave that meeting, we at least -- even if we don't 25 get the City done, insurance, get all the other things that 7-12-06 bwk 85 1 are -- and then start on the Wednesday, Friday, and Monday 2 with the actual -- 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- departments. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So, 18th, we got City/County 6 joint operations, health benefits, and reorganization issues. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Then we've got the others. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're going to do a memo, 10 right? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, we're going to work up -- work 12 up a schedule on it. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Be a pretty full afternoon. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It'll be fun. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let's get it done. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- and I am serious that 17 we need to send a memo to the City saying I don't know what 18 they envision to happen on the 9th of August, but I don't see 19 that as a budget meeting. I see that as a -- yeah, let's get 20 together and say hi and talk about next year's budget, but -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't think I'm going to write, 22 "Let's get together and say hi." (Laughter.) Send them a 23 kumbayah message. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not "hi." "Howdy." 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Anything coming from you will be 7-12-06 bwk 86 1 better received by the City Manager than anything coming from 2 me, I can assure you. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: If there's going to be a kumbayah 4 message, Commissioner, you may send it. 5 (Discussion off the record.) 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Maybe we could talk about 7 that $94,000 that they still owe us. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I think we need to keep that in our 9 back pocket. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, anyway, I just think it's -- 11 that we need to work on the agenda. If they think we're 12 working on budget at this meeting, I think they need to be 13 informed that that's not my vision for that meeting. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We'll be through by then. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, Mr. Tomlinson? 16 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, is there a way that -- that 17 maybe, on some departmental budgets, if -- if there's no 18 change from the requested to the recommended, that we could 19 have the department head sign off on that budget and not even 20 have to -- have to have them in here? 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No, I want to take a look 22 at it. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: No, I mean the whole Court, I mean, 24 would know what the number's going to be. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I -- I think what I hear 7-12-06 bwk 87 1 Tommy saying is that the way -- this is basically saving a lot 2 of time for department heads, and I -- you know, I agree with 3 that, and I've -- 'cause a lot of times we go through -- but 4 the other side of that, though, is it's a good opportunity to 5 try to get, especially with the Odyssey, a little bit of 6 feedback as to where we're going, manpower. Just like Linda's 7 comments, to me, are real helpful, is that, you know, "Don't 8 even think of looking towards me for any personnel, because 9 I'm so far behind because of this mess you've got us into 10 already." But I see that it's going to help them maybe next 11 year. That kind of information is real helpful to me. So, 12 that's the kind of stuff that -- you know, that's why I think 13 it's probably good for -- even if it's real short. I think it 14 needs to be a pretty short meeting, but at least a direction 15 as to, you know, a little bit looking down the road, too, what 16 Odyssey's going to do, 'cause Odyssey's a big part of all 17 this -- this big picture this year. 18 MR. TOMLINSON: You know, there's times when -- you 19 know, when you go over, line item by line item, items that 20 you've already settled on. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's not -- 22 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't see a reason to rehash those 23 kind of things. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: As a practical matter, Tommy, what 25 happens is after I review them with the elected official or 7-12-06 bwk 88 1 department head, a -- generally if there's any discrepancy, we 2 get a lot of those resolved. If there's some of them we don't 3 get resolved, when they come to the Court, they want to talk 4 about that one or two items. And then, if they got some 5 personnel issues or some capital outlay -- really, I'm just 6 cutting out the middle for the most part, or most of it. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We don't go over line item by 8 line item any more. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No. But just because it's 10 a business-as-usual budget, meaning no significant increases, 11 that doesn't mean we don't need to say, why do we need 12 business as usual? Janie's just leaving; I want to ask Janie, 13 why not something different than business as usual? You know, 14 but you guys need to hear that, too. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: By the way, I think it's 18 just a perfunctory matter that the City has notified us that 19 they want to -- they've canceled the Rabies and Animal Control 20 contract, and they want to renegotiate that. One of the 21 things that's on their list is for us to resume picking up 22 animal carcasses in the city. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Cost factor attached to 24 that? I assume there's a cost factor attached to that? 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. It's really more 7-12-06 bwk 89 1 than the cost factor; it's productivitity. It's not just 2 picking up carcasses. We have to disinfect the vehicle and 3 everything. We don't want to do it. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: As I see it, it's a -- because 5 of the manpower issue also, from the standpoint of the size of 6 the animals, and a lot of times you -- I mean, you have to 7 take -- two people have to go out to lift up some of these 8 things. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or it could be $5,000 or 10 $6,000 an animal. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's a -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Pickup. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: By the head? 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Same price as an EMS run. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, things are fast deteriorating. 17 Anybody else got any more business under the -- under the 18 agenda item for this workshop? Hearing -- what? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, I was just -- I thought you 20 were -- I just didn't want Rex to leave. We're out of the 21 workshop, in my mind. I have a question for Rex before he 22 runs back downstairs. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Nothing further on the 24 workshop? 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: My only comment, Judge, you had 7-12-06 bwk 90 1 asked at the beginning -- I don't have anything else. My 2 vacation is over. I don't know what the other elected 3 officials have, so whenever y'all decide to schedule the 4 Sheriff's Office, just let me know. 5 MS. PIEPER: You got a vacation? 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah, I escaped. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, used his fireplace up in 8 Colorado. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, never made it to Colorado. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Rusty and I had a kumbayah meeting. 11 Okay. Hearing nothing further on this agenda item, we'll 12 stand adjourned. 13 (Budget workshop adjourned at 11:19 a.m.) 14 - - - - - - - - - - 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 7-12-06 bwk 91 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my 5 capacity as County Clerk of the Commissioners Court 6 of Kerr County, Texas, at the time and place 7 heretofore set forth. 8 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 19th day of 9 July, 2006. 10 11 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 12 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 13 Certified Shorthand Reporter 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 7-12-06 bwk