1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Budget Workshop 10 Tuesday, July 18, 2006 11 1:30 p.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 DAVE NICHOLSON, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X July 18, 2006 2 PAGE 3 * Review and discuss various matters with respect to FY 2006-07 budget and matters having budgetary 4 impact, including, but not limited to the following matters and/or the consideration of budgets for 5 the following departments: 6 Employee Health Benefits 3 7 City/County Joint Operations 32 8 Human Resources/Reorganization Issues 68 9 Adjourned 84 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 On Tuesday, July 18, 2006, at 1:30 p.m., a budget 2 workshop of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me -- let me call to order this 8 workshop of the Kerr County Commissioners Court scheduled for 9 today, Tuesday, July 18, 2006, at 1:30 p.m. It's a bit past 10 that time now. The items that we have that are specifically 11 described were -- it's a pretty wide-open agenda item; review 12 and discuss various matters with respect to FY '06-'07 budget 13 and matters having budgetary impact, including, but not 14 limited to, the following matters and/or consideration of 15 budgets for the following departments: City/County joint 16 operations, employee health benefits, reorganization issues, 17 and human resources. Mr. Gary Looney, our insurance 18 consultant, is here with us from San Antonio, and so I'd like 19 to discuss that portion first, if we could, if no one has any 20 serious objection to it. I gave Mr. Looney the -- the numbers 21 that we've got plugged in for -- for our preliminary budget 22 for this year, which basically we're working off last year's 23 numbers, and what he has to say may determine what we do 24 henceforth. 25 MR. LOONEY: Judge, thank you very much. I 7-18-06 bwk 4 1 appreciate being here. I apologize for my casual dress today. 2 I normally don't want to be in front of such a fine, 3 outstanding group of gentlemen without wearing my tie, but I 4 got up this morning and saw what the temperature was going to 5 be, and since it's a workshop, I said okay, I'm at a workshop; 6 I'm going to take my coat off. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Take your coat off. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But stop there. 9 MR. LOONEY: You have a blue folder in front of you, 10 and we're going to start on the left-hand side of this. This 11 is a summary and a consolidation of a lot of information. So, 12 there's some -- I'm just going to hit the highlights and then 13 kind of go over where we are currently, what our projections 14 are, and then what our estimations are for the following year. 15 One of the -- the items that's first on the list is we have, 16 as you know, an insurance product that protects us for any one 17 individual that has a very large loss, and it's called a 18 specific deductible. And on our specific deductible so far 19 this year, we have one of your County employees that has a 20 total medical loss of $190,000. Of that $190,000, our 21 obligation for that as far as funding is concerned is a 22 maximum of $50,000. So, as of this date, we've only had one 23 claimant in excess of that 50, but that is through six months 24 of this year, and then we have one that's close, in the 40 -- 25 $43,000 range. The individual with the high losses, the 7-18-06 bwk 5 1 190,000, was -- we really feel like we've expended most of the 2 expense in that area. We may have some follow-up expenses, 3 but most of the care and treatment's been completed on that 4 particular patient. So -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that normal, or are we 6 running -- normal or abnormal amount? 7 MR. LOONEY: One person in excess of claims of -- of 8 the stop loss is very good. That's a good ratio. It was a 9 little bit higher expense than I thought it would be from the 10 diagnosis and from the actual care and treatment, but it was 11 all under managed -- discounted type processes through the 12 P.P.O. network. So, we did -- the actual charges in that 13 particular case were over $400,000, but net payments, after 14 all the discounts are taken and everything else, are less than 15 200 at this point. So, two things happened. One is, our 16 network is functioning properly, and the other piece of it is 17 that our insurance -- underlying insurance, that specific 18 coverage, is functioning properly. I wanted you to see that, 19 first of all, because that is a payment that was made to one 20 specific individual within the county. 21 The next one, if you'll look, it says Medical 22 Disposition of Total Charges. This is kind of a snapshot of 23 the programs from January this year through the end of June. 24 What this shows is that during this period of time, this total 25 period of time, we've had total charges submitted to be paid 7-18-06 bwk 6 1 of $1,039,000 on the medical plan itself. Of that, when we go 2 back and we apply the plan design issues and when we apply the 3 employee contributions, when we apply the discounts that we 4 receive through the P.P.O. network, our actual net payments 5 after all of that is done is $560,794. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's that number again? 7 MR. LOONEY: It's down on the bottom right-hand 8 corner, just above the 712, which says 560,794. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 10 MR. LOONEY: That is the medical net plan expenses 11 that we've paid during that first six-month period to the end 12 of June. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: First six months? 14 MR. LOONEY: First six months of this year. Now, 15 this is -- again, you can see where there have been reductions 16 made to the contract based on deductibles being paid by the 17 employee, copayments and coinsurance. Copayments are those 18 payments that individual pays when they go to the doctor, take 19 the standard copayment. Coinsurance is that 80/20 or 70/30 20 relationship on the claimant side. As you can also see, we've 21 got -- of the total claims submitted and total plan benefits 22 paid, only $25,000 total of the $500,000 was out of network, 23 out of our discount base, so we've got a very, very high 24 percentage of participation within the network, which has two 25 meanings. One is we have a very comprehensive network that's 7-18-06 bwk 7 1 available to all that need the services, and the other fact is 2 that people recognize that, or are utilizing it, so we're 3 getting full discount base on the dollars that we've put into 4 the system at this time. So, that's a very good ratio. 5 That's a very high ratio. We normally see ratios as high as 6 90, 92, 95 percent, but you're well above -- in the good zone, 7 in the very preferred zone as far as that's concerned. 8 The last piece of this page -- the last part of it 9 has to do with prescription drug program and the expenses that 10 were incurred as a result of the prescription drug plan. And 11 those expenses to-date are $151,000. And I'll show you a 12 little bit more about the distribution of those expenses, but 13 our total paid claims through the end of this six-month time 14 frame is $712,000 total. Yes, sir? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All of these numbers, do they 16 include -- in particular, the prescription drug plan, does 17 that include the retirees? 18 MR. LOONEY: Yes. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Everybody? 20 MR. LOONEY: This -- this is a summary report of 21 everyone that's insured under the County. I've got it broken 22 out into the other categories, but I didn't bring that -- I 23 didn't want to go into that much depth today. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's fine. 25 MR. LOONEY: But rather to give you the summary. As 7-18-06 bwk 8 1 you can see, down at the bottom it says Page 4 of 4. The 2 other three pages prior to that are the breakout in the 3 different departments, the different plan design issues and 4 the retirees. On the next page, you see the prescription drug 5 summary. This is how we arrived at the total payments that 6 were made on the -- on the prescription drugs. We have 7 mail-order formulary, mail-order non-formulary, and this does 8 break it down into the -- well, no, this one doesn't. There 9 -- yeah, it does break it into two different categories. 10 There's four different -- brand mail-order, brand retail, 11 generic mail-order, and generic retail, and it has -- it's 12 based on the three plans, so all of that combined. 13 The formulary means that the prescription drug 14 program that's in place, that the medications that the 15 individuals are taking have been approved of and designated 16 within that list of medications, and they -- and they meet the 17 discount base for copayments. The non-formulary medications 18 are those outside of that list, which we still make a benefit 19 payment on, but at a reduced benefit rate. So, taking into 20 consideration the dispensing fees, what we pay to the 21 pharmacist, the amounts that are disallowed are those expenses 22 on a negotiated contract basis with the prescription drug 23 companies in some cases, and also amounts that are disallowed 24 based on copayments that are made. Based -- copayments, I'm 25 sorry, second category. But the disallowed amounts are those 7-18-06 bwk 9 1 expenses that are not considered to be covered under the plan. 2 So, then the second -- the third column is Billed; that's how 3 much was actually billed to the insurance company. Copayments 4 are applied, what we paid, and that amounts to the $151,000 5 that coordinates with your other number. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Before you get off the prescription 7 drug summary, Mr. Looney, the percentage on formulary and 8 generic utilization rates, how do those compare with average 9 to good utilization rates? 10 MR. LOONEY: The -- the on-formulary is a little bit 11 lower than we expect to see normally. We've got some -- 12 obviously, we've got some prescription medications that are 13 outside of what the normal realm of approval has been 14 concerned. It may very well be, though, with a case your 15 size, it may be that that number is skewed by one or two 16 prescriptions that are off the formulary, because it's based 17 on percentage utilization of total dollars, and typically when 18 they're not on-formulary, they're more expensive medications. 19 So, the numbers may be skewed a little bit based on size of 20 your population of utilization. But the generic utilization 21 rate of 46 percent, that is fairly common. We would like to 22 have it higher, but anything that's within 2 or 3 points of 23 50 percent is considered an average that we see in the 24 industry. We'd like to have it reversed; we'd like to have it 25 up in the 55 to 60 percent range. 7-18-06 bwk 10 1 Generic medications are -- are not the same types of 2 medications that were considered generics eight, ten years 3 ago. These generic medications now have to be approved by 4 Medicare to meet the equivalency of the standard drugs that 5 are being issued. In the past, they didn't have that 6 requirement; you could have two or three different categories 7 of generics. Now the generic medications have to meet the 8 same qualifications that the drug that they're replacing or 9 substituting for have to meet. But there are still -- and you 10 know, there are medications -- generic medications that are 11 more expensive than the name-brand medications, because some 12 of those name-brand medications now are available over the 13 counter, but the generics are still being prescribed at a 14 higher rate. So -- you know, I mean, so we are -- we're 15 getting in that catch-22 range there. But from that 16 standpoint, you know, we're in -- the numbers are close. 17 They're not outlandish in either direction, so there's not any 18 flags at this point that I think we need to throw up as far as 19 plan changes or situations such as that. 20 The next page is based on the diagnostic categories. 21 This is where the -- the medical expenses are going in 22 relationship to the diagnoses for your employees. The blood 23 and blood-forming organs has to do with the bone marrow and 24 the bone marrow transplants and things like that that we get 25 involved with in some cases. Circulatory, digestive. As you 7-18-06 bwk 11 1 can see, there's a number of categories here that we deal 2 with. We watch this and look at this to see if there's -- 3 there's some huge number that pops up here where we can really 4 consider that we've got a major problem that we need to get 5 back in. And you're pretty well spread amongst all of the 6 expenses as far as -- so we've got contributory items that are 7 going back to all of this -- all of these other areas. 8 One of the things that we're working with right now 9 with self-funded plans such as yours, one of the things that 10 we're concerned about is the concept of wellness, and it's to 11 -- what we can do to help better manage the wellness function. 12 One of our biggest contributing factors to health care costs 13 in these days is obesity. Obesity is a contributing factor 14 to, in some way, almost all of the major claims that we see, 15 which is -- and it's not here just in Kerrville, not just in 16 Texas, even though San Antonio has been voted the fattest city 17 in the United States. The -- the problem of obesity is 18 significant. To accomplish -- you know, trying to treat that 19 factor, you know, I have a hard time walking up to one of your 20 obese employees, saying, "Hey, fatso, you need to go do 21 so-and-so." The Sheriff would be coming after me pretty 22 quick, I'm sure. But, you know, it's really hard to create a 23 program that is voluntary that then the employees are able to 24 use that really accomplishes a great deal on reducing the cost 25 of the plan. 7-18-06 bwk 12 1 So, you may have read, you may have seen that some 2 companies are requiring employees to go through a wellness 3 screening process as part of their employment. When we had 4 the original discriminatory rules and regulations that were 5 established back under ERISA, it said that you could not 6 discriminate against an employee based on race, sex, and 7 actual physical condition. You couldn't do a rating structure 8 for an employee that was overweight versus a rating structure 9 for a person that was -- met the standard requirements under 10 the medical plan. When HIPAA came out four or five years ago, 11 those rulings started to change, and what has happened now is 12 that we have guidance. It says that an employer can 13 discriminate amongst employees for medical circumstances. 14 The -- the caveat is that if you discriminate, then you have 15 to provide a resource to resolve the problem. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: In other words, a membership 17 to the health club type thing? 18 MR. LOONEY: Not necessarily. That's too -- that's 19 too easy. Membership to a health club would be too easy. I'm 20 afraid that you have to go deeper than that, where you have an 21 expense involved from your side of it to help resolve the 22 problem. So, what it amounts to is providing -- providing a 23 screening, for instance. You provide a screening. Now, we've 24 got a number of companies that we've been dealing with, and 25 one of the things that we're going to do during this next bid 7-18-06 bwk 13 1 process is to have these wellness companies bid on providing a 2 wellness program for the employees. And what the screening 3 process is is an initial blood test, initial physical 4 examination; height, weight, just a summary physical. Now, 5 that information is accumulated in relationship with a 6 questionnaire that the individual presents, and they're given 7 a score -- a scorecard, "Here's where you are, here's where 8 you need to be, and, you know, here's the things that we're 9 going to do to help you get there." 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Like counseling on eating 11 habits. 12 MR. LOONEY: Counseling on eating habits, dietary, 13 physical exercise routines, nonsmoking clinics, a wide variety 14 of mechanisms to help them get to a better score. As long as 15 they participate in the program and are attempting to continue 16 to increase their -- their health, then there's no 17 differential in their either benefit plan or price. You -- 18 you just leave it there as long as they participate. If they 19 wish not to participate, and they don't meet the grading 20 qualifications, then you have the ability to either increase 21 their cost under the benefit plan from the premium standpoint, 22 or to put them into a different benefit plan that has higher 23 deductibles and higher coinsurances. 24 In Houston, one of the major oil field distributing 25 companies with about 800 employees required their employees to 7-18-06 bwk 14 1 go through a mandatory testing period, and it was challenged 2 in court, and it survived the court session and was approved 3 with, again, those caveats. You can test, you can change the 4 plan, but you have to provide a mechanism for the individual 5 to resolve the problem. And as long as you do that, then 6 those kinds of changes can be made. You -- the obesity 7 problem is -- is in a national crisis type circumstance right 8 now. We take a look and go to the national meetings for 9 insurance companies; we hear constantly about the challenges 10 of trying to create the wellness program. We will be bidding 11 on a wellness program for y'all for next year. We will get 12 numbers to find out what that expense might be and what those 13 programs might be. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know how the City 15 does it, but I see their -- I see their fire department 16 working out almost every day. They take a uniform in there 17 and change clothes. They look like a bunch of triathletes. I 18 mean, they're in extremely good health. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You were using the -- were 20 you using obesity as an example? Or is that the exclusive -- 21 MR. LOONEY: No, that's just an example. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Tobacco users can also 23 be -- 24 MR. LOONEY: Very much so. There's -- when the 25 grading scale is done, it's graded on a large variety of -- 7-18-06 bwk 15 1 it's lifestyle as well as the results of the tests that are 2 actually performed on the individual. The individual is asked 3 to complete a lifestyle questionnaire. They combine those and 4 give a score, and then say, okay, this is -- this is -- these 5 are things you need to work on going forward, and we're seeing 6 a lot of these types and styles of programs now being 7 initiated. The -- one of the larger organizations in South 8 Africa, and under a gentleman -- I can't remember his name, 9 but he owns Virgin Airways and things of that sort. His -- he 10 actually has a company in South Africa that handles all of the 11 governmental employees in South African programs very similar 12 to this, and they have an IBM testing unit that they will put 13 in your facility, and you can come in and put your arm in the 14 cuff and plug in your code number, and it weighs you, it takes 15 your blood pressure, and then you enter information and you 16 keep a constant record of what's going on. So, some really 17 interesting innovations. 18 But, again, we will be bidding that wellness program 19 to determine whether or not we can fit it into the -- into the 20 budget. It's not in this presentation as far as costs are 21 concerned at this point. 22 MR. BENHAM: That's the Virgin Airways man. 23 MR. LOONEY: Oh, thank you. I can't remember his 24 name. Last time I saw him, he was standing on the wing of an 25 airplane; I thought he was going to fall off. But it's -- 7-18-06 bwk 16 1 they've created a trial -- trial program. One is in Tampa, 2 Florida, and another one is in San Antonio, actually. The 3 last two pages here, which you need a magnifying glass to 4 read, it's a report on the telephone calls that Mutual of 5 Omaha gets, and -- and the subject matter that -- that people 6 are calling in about. Take a look at this to -- to see if 7 maybe there's a communication link that we need to shore up, 8 or if there's something extraordinary, unusual going on. And 9 when we have claims about -- when people are calling about a 10 claim, we expect that, so that's not an inordinate number of 11 claims. Calling in for -- for benefit information, that is a 12 little bit higher than we expect, so we may want to start a 13 little better communication process with employees to discuss 14 what their actual benefits are so that they've got a better 15 feel for what their benefit package is. The rest of them are 16 fairly common and don't -- again, don't raise any flags. But, 17 from the standpoint of -- of communications of the benefit 18 package, we're a little bit high in that area, so that's why I 19 brought that and presented it to you. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Seems like they increased 21 instead of lessening as the year went on. 22 MR. LOONEY: They have increased. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Looks like sometime in 24 September, we made a change of some sort. Those numbers went 25 sky-high. 7-18-06 bwk 17 1 MR. LOONEY: There is -- there is one piece of 2 information that I do not have for you today, but I was hoping 3 to have by this time, but I do not have it. There has been an 4 administrative change in the H.R.A. administrator with Mutual 5 of Omaha. We are in the two- to three-week conversion period 6 right now. I don't have the report of the conversion yet. I 7 was hoping to have it by the time we got here, but conversion 8 in the administration has -- has essentially occurred. We've 9 had a number of meetings and telephone conversations on 10 changing that administrator. The administrator that was 11 previously being used by Mutual of Omaha was overwhelmed by 12 the volume of business that they received, so it was necessary 13 to move to a larger organization, and so that change has taken 14 place. Yes, sir? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: These are calls that went to 16 the agent? Or to Mutual of Omaha? 17 MR. LOONEY: These calls went to Mutual of Omaha 18 directly, through their answering system. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The change you're referring 20 to now, is that -- is that a good thing for you? 21 MR. LOONEY: Yes, it is. It's a much better 22 reporting function. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Therefore, it's a good thing 24 for us. 25 MR. LOONEY: It's a good thing, because now I have 7-18-06 bwk 18 1 online access to reports, whereas in the past, we had to 2 request reports and -- and receive them when we got them. We 3 will have the ability to access reports and get that 4 information. There's been no cost change in the expenses that 5 we were incurring for that administration piece, so I'm 6 looking forward to that first report right now. On the 7 right-hand side, we'll talk about -- Mr. Letz has already been 8 reviewing the numbers, I can tell. Okay. On the -- at the 9 top left-hand corner, it says -- on the first little sheet 10 with all the colored boxes behind it, it says Plan Year 11 January 1, 2006. Plan year -- this is where we are, 12 essentially, today. The numbers outlined in yellow are 13 supposed to be the numbers that are being deducted from 14 payroll deductions for the employees at this time. It shows a 15 contribution level of the $560.55, and I believe you all 16 rounded that up to $561 at that time. 17 So, premium rate projection and everything, and that 18 was all based on the renewal information with all the little 19 colored boxes that are behind that. This is the kind of 20 information that I get from the insurance company when they're 21 in the renewal process, and this is not for 2007; this was 22 what we received for 2006. So, that's got all of the 23 administrative costs and all of the projections and all the 24 rates that are currently in force for all of the various 25 insurance products that we have, plus the administrative 7-18-06 bwk 19 1 costs. So, that, tied with the presentation sheet on rates, 2 gave us the projected rating structure for this year. 3 Now, behind that is the estimated medical plan costs 4 for the coming year. What we do when we -- one of the first 5 times that we made a presentation in July after the first six 6 months of -- of the plan year, I told you that we have 7 difficulty in projecting rates because of what we call the 8 credibility factor, "credibility" meaning the length of time 9 that you had been insured under a certain plan design to be 10 able to give us enough information to start working off of a 11 predicted model. We're getting closer now to being able to 12 work off of the credibility factor. We're now starting 13 into -- well, January will be the third year. We're a full 18 14 months into the -- into the plan at this time, so we've got 15 more predictability than we had when we just had six months. 16 The number that you see, per-employee, per-month 17 medical loss, is a number that's generated based on taking the 18 population that's insured, and then we offset that population 19 by a three-month period of time based on the fact that it 20 takes about three months for claims to fully flush through the 21 system. We apply that back against the claims incurred over 22 the future period of time, and what that all means is we come 23 up with a factor that we think is predictive based on the 24 medical plan costs per-employee, per-month. And then we track 25 that on a monthly basis, which we're -- we're doing currently. 7-18-06 bwk 20 1 So, this number is a predictive number through the first six 2 months of this year, but using the previous 14 months of 3 information. Then we project that to the full plan year. 4 We take the same projection for prescription drug 5 plan. We subtract from that a reimbursement that we have for 6 large claims, and we only took a portion of the reimbursement 7 for budget purposes. We only took a portion of that 8 reimbursement. We then add back in a trim factor, and we 9 flush all this through the system and come up with what our 10 projected annual cost is for 2007, apply that number to the 11 distribution of premium as far as the participation is 12 concerned, and after all that is said and done, come up with a 13 factor next year that we expect the County to fund toward the 14 plan, and that number is $568. So, we're at $561 now. We 15 expect the increase in the premium for the County's 16 contribution to be only $7 increase per employee, per month 17 for the next year. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Very good. 19 MR. LOONEY: Yes, it's very good. If we take that 20 at this current point in time and -- and project that into the 21 total rate structure for employees, we have a marginal rate 22 change for employees. Very low rate change for employees. A 23 dollar here, 30 cents there, 50 cents there, and we can go 24 back and adjust those numbers so that if you did not want an 25 employee rate increase, we could hold that. You would have 7-18-06 bwk 21 1 very little impact on the $561. I do not -- and you gentlemen 2 are going to have to explain something to me, because I'm not 3 totally sure I understand in the budget function how any 4 credit might be carried forward from one budget year to 5 another budget year, or if there is any credit carried 6 forward. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: There's not. We zero out at the end 8 of the year and start over. 9 MR. LOONEY: Okay. And it's been that way ever 10 since that I can remember. So, we have -- we should have -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm looking to the Auditor for 12 verification, yeah. 13 MR. LOONEY: I thought he was sneaking up behind me 14 here. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: No. 16 MR. LOONEY: We zero every year? 17 MR. TOMLINSON: I was talking to -- I didn't hear 18 the question. 19 (Discussion off the record.) 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure we do. 21 MR. LOONEY: But by doing that, then we refund and 22 redo that asset accumulation budget each year so that any 23 credit's carried forward from -- or any credit that would 24 generate in the budget, I assume, then goes back into the 25 general fund accounting? So, when we project this particular 7-18-06 bwk 22 1 funding, we're projecting it based on expected claim losses to 2 meet the demand of the insurance products at this time. So, 3 there should be hopefully some credit balance moving forward 4 from this year till next year. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Gary, what did you say the 6 employee increase is going to be? 7 MR. LOONEY: At this point, it's 3 percent or less. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Looks like it's a dollar and 9 change, right? 10 MR. LOONEY: Just very minimal. There's a 11 distribution of the two there. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Will -- this wellness program 13 that you're talking about, will that affect that number in any 14 way? 15 MR. LOONEY: It could. But, you know, the hope -- 16 and the end result is that, because you're self-insured, that 17 you have two costs involved. One is the fixed-dollar cost of 18 putting the wellness program into place, and two is the claims 19 savings dollars that you generate in a very short time frame 20 to reduce that overall net cost by the savings that you have 21 in your medical claims. We recently did a program at a school 22 district that had -- actually, they had about 3,000 employees. 23 And when we did that, we actually had four people that went 24 through the testing that were immediately rendered into health 25 care, one of which was diagnosed with an early stage of cancer 7-18-06 bwk 23 1 that was able to be resolved, another of which had had back 2 injury or back pain for some time, thought that they had it 3 cured, went through extreme testing for an MRI, and found out 4 that there was something other than -- another growth that 5 was -- that was resolved. Four out of the 2,000, but we felt 6 like that that more than offset the total cost of that plan. 7 We're seeing pricing rates -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: For 3,000? 9 MR. LOONEY: For 3,000 employees. We're seeing 10 things range from $90 per employee to institute the plan for a 11 full year, to about $110, $115. And that includes the 12 complete testing, complete wellness exam, the grading and 13 continuing education throughout the plan year, and that's paid 14 as a claim, and so it's not as an additional expense. It's 15 incurred as an actual medical expense, because it is a medical 16 examination, it is characterized. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If I read this correctly, 18 the cost to the retiree is stable for the next year. 19 MR. LOONEY: Just -- I left it exactly the same. We 20 haven't changed it in the past, so I left it the same. Again, 21 this is -- this is the first draft, so we've got -- we've got 22 time to make changes, if you want to make changes as we're 23 going through the bid process. And, so, we'll -- we're 24 getting better at our predictive model, you know, 'cause we've 25 got more experience to do it with. 7-18-06 bwk 24 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, you said it's first draft, 2 but based on the -- the three individuals that have the 3 relatively high claims, you're pretty confident -- I mean, 4 'cause two of those -- one's over 50,000; one's real close to 5 it, and the other one's pretty close, too. So, I mean, it's 6 not going to be -- 7 MR. LOONEY: No, the one that's closer to 50 is 8 still ongoing, still has treatments, but we only have $8,000 9 more of an obligation for that. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 11 MR. LOONEY: We may very well be offset by the 12 reimbursement that we receive on that individual that's well 13 in excess of that 50,000. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Mr. Looney, some 70 percent 15 of those enrolled are enrolled for employee-only insurance. 16 MR. LOONEY: Correct. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Do I understand we have an 18 administrative procedure that says you must enroll for health 19 insurance? You can't opt not to be enrolled? 20 MR. LOONEY: I believe so. I believe there is a -- 21 an employee -- that when you're contributing 100 percent of 22 the employee's -- employee cost of the plan, then normally you 23 do not allow waivers out of that plan. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: See, of that 70 percent, 25 which is some 190 or so covered people, some large number -- 7-18-06 bwk 25 1 some large percentage of those have other insurance; their 2 spouse has insurance or they have insurance from some other 3 source. But because we don't charge and because we force them 4 into our plan, we become the primary carrier. When I have a 5 claim, even though I've got three different coverages, two of 6 them besides Kerr County, you wind up paying for it -- Kerr 7 County winds up paying for it. And if you were to charge me 8 and hold some number of others -- I don't know if it's a lot 9 or a few, but I'd opt out, and you'd save a lot of money. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's just part of the 11 animal of being self-insured, I guess, huh? 12 MR. LOONEY: Well, it's -- if you allow -- if an 13 individual is opting out, they may or may not be opting out 14 because they have coverage elsewhere. So, the coverage is 15 provided for them as an employee, and as that, they become a 16 primary, as you say, in that circumstance, because they are 17 the primary employee. But opting out -- also, when you opt 18 out of the numbers of people, we still have to go back in and 19 factor what the cost per-employee is, and those people opting 20 out not necessarily are the ones that require the care and 21 treatment. Subsequently, we end up with a higher rate for a 22 fewer number of people, even though our total contributions 23 may be somewhat reduced. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'll make the question real 25 simple so we can move on. Strictly from the standpoint of 7-18-06 bwk 26 1 cost containment, would you recommend that we implement a 2 $50-per-month fee for employee only? 3 MR. LOONEY: For employee only? First thing I'd 4 like to do is compare what other similar entities are doing 5 for charging to employees in the community. If the City is 6 charging, if the school district is charging, if the police 7 department is -- whatever those other entities are, because 8 that is where you are in competition for employees, so you 9 look at that first. And then if, in fact, you were consistent 10 with the rest of those entities, then raising the -- making 11 the contribution for employees would be okay. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't want to expend a 13 whole lot of energy and effort pursuing it, but I think it 14 deserves some more consideration. If I knew that it was going 15 to save the County a lot of money, I'd say we've got to think 16 real seriously about it. Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Last -- earlier this year or 18 last year, we talked about pooling or joining with the City of 19 Kerrville, primarily, but possibly some other entities. Have 20 you had any communication with their -- 21 MR. LOONEY: I've had communication with -- I 22 believe they use someone out of Dallas. And I've had other 23 conversations about what they're doing and how they've gone 24 about it, and I'm not sure that a partnership relationship 25 would be very good. A management relationship with them might 7-18-06 bwk 27 1 be better. I -- I don't like what they're doing. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're right behind you. 3 MR. LOONEY: Okay, whoever it is. You know, I'd 4 prefer -- I'd prefer having more control over it from that 5 standpoint, because I've seen some of the results of -- and 6 I'm not sure that we would have recommended them to take the 7 track that they've done. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't want to get you in hot 9 water. They'd probably be interested in hearing what you have 10 to say, anyway. What's the difference in the plan, basically, 11 as you understand it? 12 MR. LOONEY: The method in which it was funded and 13 the calculations on funding requirements and -- and -- and the 14 estimation of the funding. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The $50 you're talking about 16 equates to about $160,000 per annum, based on the employee 17 group in this summary. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: If that drove me out, I 19 didn't pay that $50, then you'd be saving more than the $50 20 I'm not paying. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think what he's saying, 22 though, is that we can't -- we're going to drive out -- you 23 may be a plus, but if we start letting people opt out, our 24 price is going to go up and we're probably not going to save 25 much money. 7-18-06 bwk 28 1 MR. LOONEY: Well, the problem is, you -- you 2 redistribute the total cost to much fewer people. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 4 MR. LOONEY: And then the individual costs 5 accelerate. And in the insurance business, we call it the 6 death spiral. And, unfortunately, small contributions allow 7 an employee to either participate or not participate in the 8 plan. If you wanted to consider possibly taking a 9 contribution from the employee side of it and reducing costs 10 for the dependent side of it, then we'd just have to wait and 11 see who enrolled and who didn't enroll to see what the net 12 effect on the plan is. Consistency of budgeting. Y'all have 13 a consistent employment group, very consistent number of 14 employees, and so projections and funding become more 15 consistent because of your consistency in your employment. 16 When we have to predict and adjust in accordance with what we 17 expect to occur as far as enrollment is concerned, then our 18 predictive modeling is -- is tainted, because we really don't 19 know where it's going to go at that point. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, going back to the City 21 of Kerrville issue, it's my understanding -- what do you mean 22 by "funding mechanism" is the difference -- the big 23 difference? 24 MR. LOONEY: Just the way that the total funding 25 concept was created under the basis for the -- for budgeting 7-18-06 bwk 29 1 for them, how they actually funded it and prices that were 2 charged and things of that sort. Plan design. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm still not sure I understand. 4 I just think it -- intuitively, it would make sense. If you 5 basically doubled the pool with the same type employees as 6 that, you're spreading the risk a little bit over a little bit 7 bigger area, and it should be a benefit to both entities. 8 MR. LOONEY: Like I said, I'm not opposed to it. I 9 just think I'd prefer it from a management standpoint, as 10 opposed to being -- you know, I would like to maintain control 11 of -- of the process. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: When you say from a management 13 standpoint, what do you mean by that? 14 MR. LOONEY: As far as plan design is concerned, as 15 far as the funding issues, as far as -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, but from a management -- 17 you said you wouldn't mind it from a management standpoint. 18 From a plan design standpoint, but -- is that what you're 19 saying? 20 MR. LOONEY: Well, I would prefer to maintain the -- 21 the integrity of the way that our plan works and our funding 22 works, rather than tainting it. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, administratively, you would 24 possibly -- there may be some benefits in combining -- 25 MR. LOONEY: We could possibly share administrative 7-18-06 bwk 30 1 costs. We could share P.P.O. networks. We could also do it 2 -- we could combine them into an interlocal purchasing 3 agreement. You can create that circumstance. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's just something I'm still 5 interested in pursuing if -- if there's a benefit to be had. 6 MR. LOONEY: If you will identify the parties that I 7 am to communicate with, I'll be glad to do so. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mr. Paul Hofmann. He's right 9 behind you, Mr. Paul Hofmann. I guess that's where you'd 10 start, anyway. Okay. All right, thank you. 11 MR. LOONEY: So, that's pretty much where we are at 12 this point. I'm waiting, again, on the report from the H.R.A. 13 company, and I expect another -- I don't know what your normal 14 budget time frame is to adopt the budget in. August? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: September, I suspect, before we fully 16 and finally adopt it. 17 MR. LOONEY: I expect to be in front of another 18 workshop sometime in August, so we can make sure that we're -- 19 that we're -- our predictive modeling is working properly, and 20 then bring back to you that information. And if Mr. Hofmann 21 and I are able to meet prior to that, then I'll -- then I'll 22 report back to you on that also. 23 MR. LOONEY: Okay. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Looney, for -- for budgetary 25 planning purposes, at least at this juncture, and if I'm 7-18-06 bwk 31 1 hearing you correctly, we need to be looking at budgeting 2 cost-wise about $568, $570 per month per employee? 3 MR. LOONEY: $570 would be -- $568 is actually the 4 number that I generated. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Good news. 7 MR. LOONEY: It is good. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thanks for your help. 9 MR. LOONEY: Thank you, sir. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: It's actually better news than what I 11 thought we were going to receive. 12 MR. LOONEY: Well, for now. But, still, we're -- 13 you know, we're six months from anniversary date, so that's 14 why I want to be in front of you again. So -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Part of that, of course, is the stop 16 loss premium cost that, based upon the few number of high 17 claims that we've got, that looks like that's going to hold or 18 maybe get a little bit better. 19 MR. LOONEY: I've increased -- I've actually 20 increased part of the fixed costs as a result of an 21 expectation of some increase in that area. If we don't get 22 the increase, then our budget number will look a lot better. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any more questions for 24 Mr. Looney? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good start. 7-18-06 bwk 32 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. 2 MR. LOONEY: Thank you. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: We appreciate your being with us and 4 bringing us the information. 5 MR. LOONEY: I appreciate your confidence in me. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Do we have anything more to 7 discuss on the employee health benefits side of the issue? 8 Okay, I guess that's going to bring us to City/County joint 9 operations. I received a communication from Mr. Paul Hofmann, 10 the City Manager, last Friday, and I provided a copy of that 11 communication to each of you. I've now looked up and 12 discovered I don't have mine; I failed to bring it in here, 13 but I'll go get it shortly. Dealing with some of the 14 informational aspects of -- of the joint operations, at least 15 from their standpoint. And what's the Court's pleasure on 16 where we start there? 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We got at least a couple of 18 people here that are interested in the library. We might 19 start with that, so they can -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, go ahead. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- get freed up. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm sure I've got it handy. 23 (Judge Tinley left the courtroom.) 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Library is the first one on 25 this document. 7-18-06 bwk 33 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: They probably want to get 2 back out there in the heat as soon as they can. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Must be something important. 4 Zeke's here. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I know Mr. Benham has a -- this 6 is what you want to talk about? 7 MR. BENHAM: Sure. I'm sorry, I didn't realize that 8 you weren't going to wait for the Judge. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We don't need him. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're trying to get something 11 done here. 12 MR. BENHAM: For the record, Joseph Benham, 522 13 Rolling Green. 14 (Judge Tinley returned to the courtroom.) 15 MR. BENHAM: Kerr County taxpayer, and very proud 16 resident of this county for going on 10 years. I'm also 17 immediate past president of the Friends of the Library, and 18 I'm their designated representative before government bodies, 19 Chamber of Commerce and so forth. With your kind permission, 20 I'd like to preface what I have to say about the library with 21 -- with an observation. The gentleman who was just up here 22 who was talking about how easy fitness centers are hasn't had 23 five operations and spent two years in rehab and fitness 24 centers that I have, or I don't think he'd say that. And I 25 sincerely hope he doesn't ever have that experience, but it 7-18-06 bwk 34 1 isn't easy, I can assure you. And other people are a lot 2 worse off than I am, and I appreciate that. 3 As for the library, I know you have a huge job ahead 4 of you. I have served on -- I've never served on a county 5 commission, but I've served on a school board, public utility 6 district, boards of a lot of private organizations, including 7 two that I'm president of at the moment here in this county. 8 At the same time, I have to urge you, and in all sincerity, to 9 avoid the temptation to fund the library -- I'm not going to 10 use the word "cut." I don't want to be -- I don't want to be 11 polemic. I don't want to be inflammatory, but to avoid what 12 may be the temptation to fund the library at a level which 13 would put its services out of reach of a lot of good people. 14 Our organization has over 600 paying -- dues-paying members, 15 and since many of those good folks have family memberships, we 16 can say very confidently that we represent well over 1,000 17 people in this county who have memberships in the Friends of 18 the Library. And there are an untold number -- and I'll touch 19 on that in a moment, if you'll allow me. There's an untold 20 number of people who come in and use the library, but don't 21 bother to join our organization. 22 I'd like to say one more thing about it. We don't 23 just come in here with our hand out. We come in here with a 24 record of contributing to the library. I feel safe in saying 25 there's some good folks over in the library right now getting 7-18-06 bwk 35 1 ready for our August book sale, cleaning silverfish and mouse 2 droppings and some other stuff off the boxes of books that are 3 donated to us. They work the year round and they spend many, 4 many, many thousands of hours and get absolutely no pay for 5 it. Secondly, we do raise money, which is -- every penny of 6 which is donated to the library. We raised $360,000 to buy 7 the building next to the library, where the restaurant and the 8 travel agency used to be, and I think the lawyer is still 9 there. In fact, he's the lone holdout. We donate at least 10 $20,000 a year to the library. Obviously, that's a small 11 percentage of what it costs to run it, but it does, I believe, 12 bear out my contention that we don't simply show up here with 13 our hand out and say, "Give us some money," when we don't do 14 anything ourselves to help fund it. I wish we raised enough 15 money that we could do a lot more, but we're -- we're just 16 about maxed out on what we can contribute. $20,000 is, I 17 think, a pretty respectable amount. When I shared that 18 information at the City Council a while back, the Chief of 19 Police came in right after I did and he said, "Boy, I wish we 20 had a Friends of the Police Department organization in this 21 town." So, we took that as a compliment. 22 I'd like to say that I don't think there's anything 23 to be gained by our -- as has been suggested to me, and I'm 24 opposed, I don't think there's a thing in the world to be 25 gained by trying to turn out hundreds, if not thousands, of 7-18-06 bwk 36 1 people in some sort of rally to impress you folks on what kind 2 of support the library has and how important it is to people. 3 The fact that there are only five of you behind that bench 4 doesn't mean there are only five people in this county who 5 care about county government, obviously. And the fact that 6 there are typically only four or five of us representing our 7 membership here doesn't mean that nobody else cares about it. 8 A lot of people care about it very, very strongly. I will 9 repeat what I've said, and I'm grateful for your patience each 10 time I show up here. This is one of the most important 11 services in this county. We have more people using this 12 library per year than live in Kerr County. We don't have an 13 exact number, because a lot of people come in; they go to the 14 reference section, they go through whatever it is they want to 15 look at. Sometimes they make notes, sometimes they photocopy 16 it and they leave. There's no record of those folks, but I'm 17 over there about four afternoons a week, gentlemen, and I 18 assure you that they're there. I'm one of them. But I can 19 assure you, there are a lot of others who come in and use that 20 library. It is a vital service. 21 One other thing I would like to point out -- I feel 22 justified in pointing out, and I'm grateful for your time on 23 this. We are already in an unenviable position with our 24 library. When our Library Director goes to the State Library 25 Association each year and sets up his table with information 7-18-06 bwk 37 1 about working for this library, what he's authorized to pay is 2 so much lower than most libraries -- other libraries in the 3 state, certainly other libraries of our size, that people 4 glance at the salary schedule and throw them back on the table 5 and go on. We are -- we have a wonderfully dedicated staff of 6 employed people in our library. We have a wonderful -- any of 7 you can be proud of your constituents who volunteer to work 8 over there. The fact is, we are not spending a lot of money 9 needlessly, and we have to plead with you to don't -- not to 10 make it any worse than it already is. Now, you've been very 11 patient with me, and I'm very grateful for that. As I said, 12 I've served on a lot of boards and committees and whatever 13 over the years, and I know that there's always a lot -- lot 14 more month at the end of the money. But I will once again 15 urge you, please do everything you can to provide this vital 16 service. 17 I don't say that it's in a class with fire and 18 police; that would be to insult your intelligence, but it is a 19 vital service in this county for a great many people, and I 20 just urge you to keep that in mind during your deliberations. 21 And I do appreciate very much -- because I know a little bit 22 about how hard you gentlemen work, I do appreciate the 23 dedication you have to providing the best government, the best 24 services possible in this county. I've said, probably in your 25 presence, there's a lot more grief than gratitude in public 7-18-06 bwk 38 1 service. I know that from personal experience as well as 2 observation. But I do urge you to please do everything you 3 can for us; stretch the money to every extent that you can, 4 and keep what we -- what really is a wonderful library, keep 5 it up and running, and running fully. I'm grateful for your 6 time. If I can try to answer any questions, I will be honored 7 to -- to do my best to do that. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make just a comment. And, 9 certainly, I will consider the library as with everything 10 else, but by just doing some quick calculations, the funding 11 request for joint City/County operations all included exceeds, 12 by itself, the increase in revenue we're receiving this year. 13 MR. BENHAM: Mm-hmm. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm committed to giving the 15 employees of Kerr County a cost-of-living adjustment at a 16 minimum, so we are walking into this out of balance already, 17 without doing a tax increase. And I don't see that coming, 18 considering that the public is already demanding the City of 19 Kerrville do a tax freeze, as they -- as we did. So, I think 20 that it's going to be a tough year, and I -- you know, I'm not 21 saying there is or isn't going to be any cuts in library 22 funding or any other funding, but I hope that the Friends of 23 the Library understand that when we have discussions, we have 24 to look at a lot of other services as well. 25 MR. BENHAM: Sure, I understand that. If I could 7-18-06 bwk 39 1 just piggy-back onto that, I am not one of those senior 2 citizens who is demanding that my taxes be frozen. I think it 3 would be a terrible mistake, and it would represent a -- it 4 would bring about a reduction in services, so I'm not on that 5 -- I'm not in that camp, believe me. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You're over 65? 7 MR. BENHAM: I can almost remember when I was still 8 65, Commissioner. Thanks for the compliment. Anybody else? 9 Thank you again, gentlemen. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Joe. 11 MR. BENHAM: I appreciate your time. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Benham. Any other 13 discussion or comments about the library? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess I have a general comment 15 about the City/County -- and I appreciate Mr. Hofmann's 16 summary sheet. You know, we do have a -- the reason that I -- 17 I think I was probably the one that really requested that this 18 get on the agenda early on, because these are some really big 19 numbers, and we really can't afford to wait until our joint 20 meeting. I'm not real sure the best way to respond. I think 21 we do need to have a dialogue with City Council on some of 22 these. My main idea -- what I really wanted was to get a 23 number we could build into our budget a little bit and look at 24 it. I don't know that it's -- my preference, really, is to 25 get into a detailed discussion more with City Council, but I 7-18-06 bwk 40 1 think we need to have some numbers we can start inking in our 2 budget, 'cause these numbers are pretty significant. You 3 know, I just don't know what -- I don't know how you get into 4 it. I mean, I don't want to get us into a situation where we 5 were last year, that we're throwing volleys up and down Main 6 Street on budgetary issues. But, at the same time, we do need 7 to look at some of these, and they are a big increase. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You can start by cranking in 9 $1,045,000 for three joint services. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I don't know how we do 11 that, but -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Gives you a starting point. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: On the library, I'll -- 14 I'll speak to it just as a County representative on the 15 Library Board. The Library Board, headed by Mr. Lipscomb 16 there, is functioning as designed. It's working well. This 17 time last year, you recall, we were unable to get library 18 budget information or have a conversation about it. This 19 year, myself and the other appointees from the County -- two 20 others -- were able to participate fully in the budget 21 process, and -- and the committee went over the budget line by 22 line, item by item, and I can say that it is a large number, 23 very expensive, but I -- we didn't find, and I don't see any 24 fluff in the budget. Really, the only issue is whether to 25 continue to provide the same level of service as you have in 7-18-06 bwk 41 1 the past. And I think if we make -- make that decision, yes, 2 you're going to provide the same level of service, then I 3 can't recommend any way to do it at a lower cost. I don't -- 4 didn't do a salary survey, but I'll -- I'll take Mr. Benham's 5 word for it that we're not overpaying. As to whether or not 6 we're overstaffing, I can't say; I don't have that experience. 7 But it appears that it takes that number of people to maintain 8 the schedule and services that we have. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, what you're saying -- I 10 mean, if I can make sure I understand it, the only way to cut 11 the library budget from an operational standpoint is to reduce 12 service, which is reduce hours. I mean, that's how it 13 equates, to me. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I apologize if I'm being 15 redundant. It would be good if the library could stand alone 16 as a -- as a budget item. It's a reality that it's part of 17 larger costs. And I don't know what -- what the airport's 18 costing us yet. I can't discern that from this document. But 19 I can tell that the City's proposing that in three areas -- 20 library, fire, and EMS -- that we increase our contribution by 21 60 percent. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me make sure I understand 23 the numbers here in the library request. They requested in 24 '06, $416,000, and we contributed $355,000. And this year, 25 they're asking for $443,000. Am I reading that correctly? 7-18-06 bwk 42 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And 443 being 50 percent of the 3 operating cost. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Correct. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, since airport's next on 6 the list -- 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, let me make a couple 8 more comments for your benefit on that. It says in there that 9 the base budget does not include insurance costs. That's 10 wrong; it does. They're a large part. Employee health 11 insurance is a large part of the budget. And then, in the 12 next paragraph, it says the -- the Commissioners Court voted 13 to terminate the library agreement for the current fiscal 14 year. That's wrong; we still have an interlocal agreement in 15 place. We, in fact, voted to renegotiate it for the next 16 fiscal year. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got another option to 18 this thing -- and you have to promise not to laugh, 'cause I 19 get my feelings hurt pretty easily. We could take the 20 Juvenile Detention Facility and turn it into a library -- a 21 county library, hire whatever librarians it takes to run a 22 very small library, put three or four computers in there, and 23 turn it into a county library. Be very small in the 24 beginning, and those folks that -- the things that we have or 25 do not have to meet the public's needs, they simply go to 7-18-06 bwk 43 1 Schreiner University and get whatever materials they need 2 there. And through the years, we could build the thing up 3 into a very nice county library. And what's wrong with that? 4 You promised not to laugh, now. What would be wrong with 5 that? Give me -- give me some good reasons why that wouldn't 6 work. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I didn't hear him promise. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I could tell by the eyes, 9 though. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think -- I mean, I think 12 it solves a short-term budget issue, but it doesn't -- it 13 probably creates a bigger long-term issue. And I guess one of 14 the problems that I see with the library budget and the 15 services that are offered is we -- you know, I don't have a 16 real problem with cutting it, is that there are other 17 libraries that serve the county, such as Comfort provides a 18 purely volunteer library. And it's certainly nowhere near the 19 scale of Kerrville library, but residents of east Kerr County 20 use that library extensively and contribute to it 21 substantially, and I'm not sure if Kendall County supports 22 that library or not. I presume they probably do. So, I think 23 -- I mean, there are other options and libraries in the 24 county, so I think it's the -- the eastern residents -- I 25 mean, the reality is, the Butt-Holdsworth Library serves 7-18-06 bwk 44 1 predominantly City of Kerrville residents. Those are also 2 county residents. 3 You know, I would really -- you know, and every time 4 this comes up, just from a library standpoint, I would really 5 like to see, you know, why it's such a horrible idea to cut 6 services back 10 percent. I mean, I say services; cut back 7 hours, and to see what that translates to from a budget 8 standpoint. Maybe 20 percent. I mean, I -- clearly, I think 9 we need to have a library. I think it makes the most sense to 10 me to continue using the Butt-Holdsworth Library rather than 11 start another library, but I also think that we're in a time 12 when dollars are very, very difficult to come by for funding 13 things of this nature, and if the -- the public should be able 14 to adjust their schedules -- their time schedules 10 to 15 20 percent to accommodate a lot of other needs in the county. 16 Another option which I brought up once before is 17 looking at some sort of interlocal agreement with Schreiner 18 University. That is a preferable option to opening up a new 19 library. I brought that up a while back as a way to have a 20 cost savings at Butt-Holdsworth from an administration 21 standpoints and others, and people at Schreiner didn't like 22 the idea; neither did the people at Butt-Holdsworth, so I 23 guess it wasn't a very good idea. But it seems to me -- I 24 don't -- the slight reduction in hours of operation, to me, is 25 the -- makes the most sense to -- at least to look at, and 7-18-06 bwk 45 1 what that does to their budget. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A couple comments -- I'm not 3 going to laugh. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I promise not to laugh. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, thank you. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It would seem to me that if 8 we were to consider that, we would be duplicating services. I 9 would think that we would be -- if we think we were getting 10 heat for having this discussion as we're having it today, I 11 would think that the heat would mount exponentially if we were 12 to consider duplicating services, as opposed to providing 13 dollars to fund existing services. That said, the last time 14 we asked a rhetorical question with respect to reduction of 15 services, I was dismayed by the response we got from those who 16 are directly involved in the management of the library, 17 present company excluded. It is as though we are presenting a 18 scenario in which the sky is falling. I don't perceive it 19 that way. I perceive it as a legitimate question. If certain 20 hours were reduced, what would the -- what would the product 21 then be in terms of reduced dollar costs of operations? So, I 22 don't know how we get to the point you're talking about, 23 Commissioner, in terms of determining whether any of that's 24 possible or not, because I don't know if you remember, but I 25 remember the last time we raised the question, and the answer 7-18-06 bwk 46 1 came back in the negative. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I think you're right, 3 but I think the -- I think it needs to be made clear to the 4 public what their options are. If we have -- if we're not 5 going to raise taxes, fire isn't going to get funded, EMS 6 isn't going to get funded, or library isn't going to get 7 funded 100 percent of the thing, and maybe all three aren't 8 going to get 100 percent. Those are the three big-ticket 9 items. Airport's in there a little bit more, but that 10 increase is not as large. And airport may be one as well to 11 look at. I think the -- the public needs to maybe be reminded 12 that at this time last year, the County basically did layoffs 13 at this time to make -- to balance our budget. I don't think 14 it was "basically"; we did do layoffs. And, you know, I don't 15 think there's a whole lot of fat in our -- in our employee 16 work force to do that again. Mr. Nicholson may disagree a 17 little bit, but I think that the -- I mean, you know, I think 18 everything needs to be looked at. And I think reducing some 19 of the services may be something else that just needs to be 20 kept on the table as something we need to look at. And I'd 21 like to discuss it with City Council at our joint meeting a 22 little bit, review it. And, so -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There's a present realtime 24 analogy to what you just said, in that everybody in this room 25 heard Mr. Looney's presentation with respect to health care 7-18-06 bwk 47 1 costs for this employee group. We made some very wrenching 2 decisions in terms of health care a year or two ago, and the 3 program -- the plan was restyled. It was restyled for one 4 very basic reason, and that was to keep a lid on the costs. I 5 think the results of Mr. Looney's -- I mean, the results were 6 plain in Mr. Looney's comments today. We've managed to do 7 that. And in doing so, we have funded a very, very good 8 health benefit plan for the employee group for Kerr County. 9 If you can hold it down to $8 per person, per month in today's 10 expanding medical world, you've done a great deal -- you have 11 done a magnificent job. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's true. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, I think that's a 14 realtime analogy, and I'm curious as to why it can't transcend 15 into other fields. When we talk about -- 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner, you mentioned the 17 question of seeing what a reduction in services would do to, 18 for example, the library budget. As I recall, in some of the 19 inquiries that Commissioner Nicholson drafted to the Library 20 Director, we asked for a funding level based upon the minimum 21 per capita contribution of approximately $620,000, and he came 22 back with a model for that. That would require some reduction 23 in staff and reduction in hours. As I recall, the total hours 24 was 56, and that got reduced to -- do you recall what it was, 25 Commissioner? 7-18-06 bwk 48 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: 43, 44, something like 2 that. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: But I think the bottom line is, 4 what's the public willing to pay for? We've got to establish 5 priorities. And if -- if they want a Cadillac and all of 6 these services, and understand it comes with increased taxes 7 to fund them, so be it. But I think, from a prioritization 8 standpoint, we've first got to look at emergency services. 9 And I don't think there's any question but what our citizens 10 first need emergency services. When we get outside of those 11 kinds of issues, it's more discretionary. And assuming we've 12 even got the money to pay for emergency services, and judging 13 -- judging from some of these numbers, I'm not sure that's 14 even in there. But if the citizens want more over and above 15 that, we need to know that. At this point, I haven't heard 16 citizens clamoring for doing whatever's necessary to their 17 taxes to do whatever increased level of services are desired. 18 We've got an additional factor there, as now we've got the 19 over 65 and disabled tax freeze, and we got a smaller group to 20 pay for it, and so it -- it's a double cost for those in the 21 middle segment of our demographics. We -- we just may not be 22 able to get there without raising taxes. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Commissioner Baldwin, we 24 may have to do something pretty radical to deal with these -- 25 these large increases in costs. I don't have the answer to 7-18-06 bwk 49 1 it. Strategically, I think that's the wrong direction. 2 Ideally, I think the right direction is finding more synergy 3 between local government groups. As you know, I think we 4 could do a better job of law enforcement and at a lower cost 5 by having a metro instead of two departments. Certainly, we 6 shouldn't have two dispatch units, even if we don't have a 7 metro. There -- there are other ways, I believe, that we can 8 be better stewards of the taxpayers' dollars by -- by joint 9 efforts and cooperation, but it takes -- it takes joint 10 efforts and cooperation to do that. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: On the fire issue, I -- I had some 13 outstanding questions after reading the information which we 14 received from Mr. Hofmann, and -- excuse me -- I wrote an 15 inquiry to Mr. Hofmann, just delivered it to him earlier 16 today, and sent you gentlemen a copy of it. And I don't think 17 I'm going to be in a position to discuss in any detail the 18 fire issue until I have the information which I have asked 19 for. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't -- I guess my only 21 question -- and I don't want to get into it again. I think 22 this really needs to be discussed with Council to a large 23 degree, but there -- is there a change in philosophy on what 24 the City is asking the County to fund? I mean, it seems 25 different. I've never seen it really presented this way. And 7-18-06 bwk 50 1 the reason is, it basically is -- as I read it, it's kind of 2 broken down into a per capita and a one-third of the cost of 3 -- of the department is being asked to be borne by the County, 4 which is different than it was -- at least as I recall it 5 being calculated previously. Is that correct, that there is 6 a -- I guess, a change, I mean, in how the City is looking at 7 requesting reimbursement for fire? Or -- please. 8 MR. HOFMANN: Yes, sir. I think we are, in fact, 9 suggesting a change in philosophy in how to recommend we 10 allocate those costs. And, in part, that philosophy is based 11 upon the work of the ad hoc EMS committee that you gentlemen 12 appointed, I guess, around a year ago. And I know that 13 committee specifically looked at EMS, but we are taking the 14 same sort of logic approach to those public safety functions 15 that we provide outside of the city limits and into the 16 county. And, in short, it is based on the premise -- and we 17 tried to explain this in the letter that we gave to the County 18 Judge on Friday. It's based upon the premise that a fair and 19 logical way to allocate those costs is based upon the City of 20 Kerrville's costs in having the capacity necessary to provide 21 those services outside the city and into the county. 22 Judge Tinley referred to the questions that he 23 submitted to us earlier today, and to the extent you're 24 interested, we can't answer all those questions today; 25 hopefully, we'll have some answers -- some detailed answers to 7-18-06 bwk 51 1 you by -- by tomorrow morning, but we can address some of 2 those questions today. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: That would be fabulous. I certainly 4 wasn't expecting anything that quick, but I appreciate your 5 prompt consideration. 6 MR. HOFMANN: Some of the questions are actually 7 pretty easy, about the extent to which we have interlocal 8 agreements with other entities. But, to me, and -- and I have 9 some experience with dealing with this in places I've worked 10 with before, and I've negotiated these kinds of arrangements 11 with other entities before. It's not so much about the number 12 of runs or response times. It's about system capacity. We 13 need to be able to provide fire or EMS services out into the 14 county to every county resident, whether we anticipate that 15 county resident calling for that service or not. And that 16 system -- that capacity is larger than it would have been if 17 our service area is only the city limits. And, to me, it only 18 makes sense to allocate the costs based upon that kind of 19 logic, and that's what we attempted to do in -- in this first 20 cut at -- at allocating those costs. Our intent is to take 21 the dialogue -- and I heard Mr. Letz refer to the August 9th 22 meeting with the City Council. I had a short conversation 23 with Mr. Baldwin about this a couple of weeks ago, and as I 24 indicated to him, we're not setting this in stone. And this 25 wasn't even a number, until last Friday, that I shared with 7-18-06 bwk 52 1 the City Council, because I'm still working on my budget 2 recommendation to the City Council, but I do think it's a 3 logical way to approach it. And I think it is a lesser cost 4 than it would be for the County to replicate those services 5 without the City providing them. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess my -- and I'm not -- I 7 don't -- not trying to get into a dialogue, necessarily. I'm 8 just tossing out ideas. To me, the EMS and the fire issues 9 are separate. And where you -- it seems that you're -- you're 10 trying to combine them more, and they're separate to me, 11 because there are volunteer fire departments out in the county 12 that we fund another 100-some thousand to, that provide, you 13 know, that service, and I don't know if they ever work in the 14 city limits or not. I suspect they probably would in an 15 emergency situation, and have. And Saddlewood's in the city 16 limits, I believe. So, I mean, they kind of -- there's -- you 17 know, and there's not a charge. I mean, in part of your big 18 picture capacity, you also, I think, would look at all these 19 volunteer fire departments. Certainly, Comfort has enough 20 fire trucks; they could certainly be a help to anybody, it 21 seems. 22 MR. HOFMANN: I think we've addressed that, 23 actually. I think that we take that into account, and we do 24 make a distinction in how we allocate the costs between EMS 25 and -- and fire. On the fire side, we -- this is kind of an 7-18-06 bwk 53 1 oversimplification, but we are looking at one-third of the 2 capacity. We are looking at allocating the cost of one truck 3 and one -- one crew, and I think that's in part because we 4 recognize the existence of volunteer agencies. Now, as I say 5 that, I need also to also point this out; that we are the 6 first responder to Kerrville South, which is a significant 7 response area for us, geographically speaking. But on EMS, we 8 are the primary responder. We did deduct for those system 9 revenues, and tried to allocate it that way, again, consistent 10 with what that ad hoc committee did. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: On fire, I -- I don't know. 12 I need to know whether or not the four volunteer fire 13 departments in the western half of the county need or want 14 assistance from Kerrville. I certainly think that one-third 15 of their capacity doesn't need to be on standby to assist 16 those -- those four volunteer fire departments. I can't 17 recall having seen a City of Kerrville unit out in the western 18 part of the county. I do know that most -- most of our needs 19 have to do with brush -- fighting brush fires rather than 20 structure fires, and the City of Kerrville is not equipped to 21 fight brush fires. So, it's a -- I think that's the first 22 hurdle you have to cross. Is there a genuine need to have the 23 City of Kerrville Fire Department back up the volunteer fire 24 departments? Certainly, if we have a -- a disastrous fire in 25 west Texas and the panhandle, we'll probably have to be 7-18-06 bwk 54 1 getting help from Oklahoma and Louisiana, and they probably 2 won't be billing us for it, but I don't know that. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And in the last couple of 4 years in the fire contract, we've been paying 125,000 a year, 5 and I understand the request this year is 369,000 and some 6 pocket change. Is that -- am I seeing that correctly? We're 7 dealing with the same numbers here? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm, that's what you're 9 seeing. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, going back to what 11 Commissioner Nicholson said, I mean, I tend to agree with him. 12 I mean, I don't -- I think there is certainly a -- a backup -- 13 a backup with the City of Kerrville going out into the county, 14 but I think -- I'm not going to say I've never seen the city 15 fire trucks out in the eastern part of the county; I'm sure I 16 have at some point, but it's rare, because Center Point and 17 Elm Pass back up Comfort and vice-versa in those areas. Now, 18 there is a -- a hole in the middle of the county around 19 Kerrville South and/or north of town too, where -- and that is 20 the area that I really look at as the contract covering area. 21 The far east and the far west really doesn't seem to have a 22 great need for the fire side, unless there's a disaster 23 situation, but just really -- is that how y'all looked at it? 24 Or did you look at it more as backing up county-wide? 25 MR. HOFMANN: Well, again -- yeah, I understand that 7-18-06 bwk 55 1 there's a distinction between Kerrville South and the rest of 2 the county, and we are the primary responder to Kerrville 3 South, and not necessarily to the rest of the county. In the 4 rest of the county -- and Raymond and Mark, correct me if I'm 5 wrong, but what we do is we respond when requested, or if we 6 hear a call out and there's no response within four minutes, 7 then we respond. And this is what we're putting on the table 8 for this kind of discussion and this kind of reaction from you 9 guys on. But, to me, we have to be ready to respond, and I 10 think -- and you can argue with the details. The logic is, we 11 have to be ready to respond, whether we're the primary 12 responder or not. And that's -- and we have a different kind 13 of relationship with the County -- Kerr County than we do with 14 surrounding counties. And back to Judge Tinley's, I'm sorry, 15 question that he asked about mutual aid agreements, we don't 16 have a mutual aid agreement with the volunteer fire department 17 organizations within Kerr County. We have an agreement with 18 the County. We do have mutual aid agreements with the 19 surrounding -- we have, what, one mutual aid agreement with 20 the counties that border us. And, so, in other words, we 21 don't see them as our response area, and I think this is kind 22 of key to my point. We see Kerr County as our response area, 23 and that's the way we are organized. That's the way we built 24 the system, and that's the way we're staffed. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Question. I have a 7-18-06 bwk 56 1 question. Mr. Hofmann, would it be fair to assume that if the 2 City were not responding to fire calls outside the city 3 limits, that the city could operate its fire department with 4 one fewer station? 5 MR. HOFMANN: I don't think it is fair to assume one 6 way or the other on that. Do I see a mutual benefit from the 7 way we approach this? Absolutely. Do I think it would be a 8 good idea to reduce the level of service we're providing to 9 city customers -- to city residents right now? Eliminate a 10 fire station, eliminate a crew? Clearly not. I'm not at all 11 suggesting that's a good idea. Now -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Neither am I, for that 13 matter. 14 MR. HOFMANN: Now, when I look at -- when I look at 15 our future -- and we've got some new stations we need to 16 build; arguably three, certainly two -- as you look at how the 17 city grows, when we consider where those fire stations -- 18 where those fire stations go and when do we need to build 19 them, the fact that we provide service to the county 20 absolutely has a big part of that decision making. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got one more comment. 22 Paul, you have to understand that we're kind of old country 23 boys here, and we still think in terms of paying for what we 24 receive. And in our minds, if a fire truck rolls outside the 25 city limits or an ambulance rolls outside the city limits, we 7-18-06 bwk 57 1 pay for that, because that's what we use -- our citizens use. 2 I have a hard time understanding paying for all that other 3 stuff. And I kind of -- but maybe as we go along, we'll kind 4 of move over to your way of thinking. I have doubts about 5 that, but -- 6 MR. HOFMANN: Well, and I -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- let's try. 8 MR. HOFMANN: -- I respect what you just said, but 9 we don't bill for fire service. We don't bill people when we 10 come out to their house to deal with the structure fire or 11 when we -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand. 13 MR. HOFMANN: -- respond to an accident. We don't 14 -- that's not the way we approach it. We -- it's a service we 15 provide that the general government pays for, and we have a 16 system that is set up to provide -- to be ready to provide to 17 anyone. That's the way that works. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Why don't we take about a 15-minute 20 recess, and -- 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Good idea. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: No objection to that? 23 (Recess taken from 3:01 p.m. to 3:25 p.m.) 24 - - - - - - - - - - 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order, if we 7-18-06 bwk 58 1 might. We were in recess. Do we have any final comments with 2 regard to the City/County joint operations? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, I do, Judge. I -- I 4 went noodling an idea in my head after I saw this letter, and 5 with -- with the particular emphasis on the -- on the fire 6 service increased cost. And so I'm going to wonder out loud 7 with the Court here for just a second, just to see whether or 8 not the idea resonates or whether we shake our heads and the 9 thought goes away. But the thought occurred to me that there 10 is an opportunity for the County to provide fire service, if 11 we choose to do so, and we could do it, for example, by 12 arranging with the Ingram Fire Department and the Center Point 13 Fire Department -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Excuse me just a minute. Did 15 you say fire service? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, fire. I'll get to the 17 other piece, too. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. But we'll start with 20 the fire premise, and see if this could lead us into the whole 21 nine yards. Arrange with the two fire departments to lease 22 their premises and staff them accordingly, and we could also 23 staff them with individuals who are cross-trained to do both 24 fire and EMS, acquire the equipment on long-term leases that 25 are necessary to bolster those two fire departments, and those 7-18-06 bwk 59 1 two fire departments would also operate with their own 2 volunteers to support the two or three people that we got to 3 staff them with, and the County could provide the fire 4 services east and west and central, if necessary, from those 5 two -- from those two locations. I want to throw it out. You 6 know, sometimes we think we're locked in and we don't have 7 options. I think if you think outside the box sometimes, 8 maybe you can find some options. I just lay that out for the 9 Court for whatever it's worth. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it would be very 11 interesting to have -- to get the feedback from Ingram Fire 12 Department and the Center Point Fire Department, which would 13 be the two most major impacts in the Kerrville South issue. I 14 think probably talk with the Comfort Fire Department as well, 15 because part of that Kerrville South contract area is also 16 north of Kerrville, as I recall. It's that -- it goes all the 17 way up to the county line, and the logical person -- or group 18 to work in that area is really the Comfort Fire Department, 19 because they handle that whole Cypress Creek area. So, you 20 know, there may be a way to have a -- to, you know, put those 21 together, add some staff, and do something along that line, 22 because I think it's -- it's getting to the point, 23 dollar-wise, that -- I mean, I have to look at options. 24 I mean, I think another thing -- and I notice 25 Councilman Bock is still back there -- that I think it's a 7-18-06 bwk 60 1 real -- I mean, I appreciate the City Manager's view about 2 they have to staff up to provide backup to the County, but the 3 flip side of that is, if you count up all the volunteer fire 4 departments in the county, they also back up the City of 5 Kerrville, and have. If you look at the Sheppard Rees fire, 6 three-quarters of the firefighters probably at that fire -- 7 I'm just guessing -- were volunteer firemen. So, I think it's 8 a two-way street. We're funding well over, you know, $150,000 9 to the volunteer fire departments, not to mention what our 10 constituents are giving to them in donations, so there's a 11 huge -- I mean, it's a -- you know, if you want to look at the 12 total cost of fire protection county-wide and divide that up 13 per capita, that may make sense, but you have to include the 14 total cost of all the volunteer fire departments in that 15 formula, because it -- and I think it's a philosophically. If 16 the City wants to look at it in that light, you know, it's an 17 interesting way to look at it, but it's not the way it's been 18 done in the past. And I think that you can't look at it as a 19 one-way street. You also have to look at it, because the -- 20 whether there's an actual mutual aid agreement between the 21 volunteer fire departments and the City of Kerrville, history 22 shows us they respond when asked, and I think that that needs 23 to be taken into account. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: One of the pieces of 7-18-06 bwk 61 1 information that I think is important, irregardless of what 2 the City Manager said, is that I'd like -- I'd like to know 3 what the response time is from Ingram and Center Point to 4 Nimitz Elementary over in Kerrville South. I just think that 5 that is -- to me, is one of the most important issues of -- of 6 it all. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm, sure. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Doesn't matter who lives 9 where or what, the per capita or anything else. The response 10 time to -- I'm talking structure fire, too. You know, not 11 talking about a grass fire with a brush truck type sitting 12 there. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, talking about a 14 structure fire. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: A pumper truck. I am in 16 talks right now, as a matter of fact, with Turtle Creek to get 17 them to come into Kerrville South to test all those hydrants 18 and see what -- I think that would be step one, is to see what 19 is there for them. There's a lot of areas over there where 20 there's just, like, a two and a half inch plastic line lying 21 under the -- under the ground, and if they pull up there with 22 one of those big pumper trucks and hook up, they're going to 23 jerk the -- the hydrant right out of the ground. But I'd be 24 happy to follow through with that, and let's get that kind of 25 information, kind of move toward that. I think that's a 7-18-06 bwk 62 1 terrific idea. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I talked to my volunteer 3 fire departments about it before, and I want to talk to them 4 again and make sure that I didn't misunderstand, but I think 5 what I recollect from that is that they don't need -- need or 6 want any help from Kerrville. In most of the western part of 7 the county, the structure fires, Kerrville would not get there 8 in time to be of any use. And if it's a grass fire, they 9 don't have equipment to fight grass fires; they can't leave 10 the pavement. So, we're -- we're pretty well equipped out 11 there. I've got -- I can walk to three fire trucks, and I 12 live in a very remote area. We've got -- Hunt's got three 13 trucks stationed across 1340 from my -- from my house. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just one other thought along 15 that line, one other caveat. In terms of the two services, 16 we're being asked for 600,000-plus. $600,000. A lot can be 17 done with that. And if equipment needs to be purchased, it 18 could be purchased either through bonded indebtedness or 19 long-term leases, and -- and that just gets added into the 20 application. But you can do a lot for $600,000. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Most -- I mean, a lot of fire 22 equipment gets funded in various types of grants, anyway. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A lot of it is. You're 25 right, Commissioner. 7-18-06 bwk 63 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It doesn't come out of anyone's, 2 you know, volunteer fire department standpoint. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Forest Service provides a 4 whole lot of it. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But the idea has merit; we 7 ought to think about it. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the other thing I wanted to 9 bring up, I mean, EMS is -- to me, is not way out of line from 10 where it was last year. I haven't got the details of it, but, 11 I mean, it's a $30,000 increase, which isn't insignificant, 12 but it's within the realm of at least where we were last year, 13 whereas fire is not. And just for the rest of the Court's 14 benefit, the reason the airport is -- is lacking in the 15 documents right here is because the Airport Board, after our 16 meeting last week, directed the City Manager, as contracted, 17 to go back to the drawing board and come up with a new budget 18 that will remove many of the items from the contract and put 19 them all out to bid for services to be bid either by the City 20 or by the County or by the private sector. So, the amount I 21 anticipate is going to probably show a -- dollars going in, 22 I'm guessing about a $60,000 increase, maybe not that much. 23 I'm not -- over where we funded it this year. However, I 24 think there's a -- hopefully, a likelihood that the County 25 will win some of the award on some of the contracted work, and 7-18-06 bwk 64 1 while we'll be spending money out, the Airport Board will be 2 paying the County for some of those services. And what we're 3 looking at specifically -- we're hoping, anyway; I haven't 4 seen the newest documents -- are legal, and some of the 5 services through Road and Bridge Department. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Another element of that, 7 Commissioner, which is still an unknown, and I think you and I 8 both made known our pleasure at the way they approached it, 9 was the match grants for capital improvements. And the 10 approach was good, was solid, and I commended the City Manager 11 for that approach, and that approach was to take it to E.I.C. 12 for funding, 'cause essentially it's economic development. 13 That issue came before E.I.C. yesterday, but my understanding 14 is that the E.I.C. did not act on it. Now, the money is 15 available, but they had some -- there was some hitch in the -- 16 in the manner in which it was applied for, whether it was one 17 project, two projects, three projects, how much in each and so 18 forth, and apparently some of the details were missing, and it 19 was not -- it was not approved yesterday. So, Mr. Hofmann 20 undoubtedly will tell us his take on that when we meet 21 tomorrow afternoon. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I want to talk about EMS a 23 little bit. Last year, we began trying to talk about a 24 user-pay concept for EMS, and we -- oh, we didn't have much of 25 a -- we had a one-sided discussion. Earlier this year, we 7-18-06 bwk 65 1 looked at some of the criteria for what sort of services are 2 eligible for a user-pay concept, including things that you 3 can -- it's not a service provided broadly to everybody; you 4 can identify the user. You know what your costs are. Billing 5 is feasible. I recall there were a couple other things there. 6 And ambulance service is a perfect example of -- of a 7 government service that can be user-pay. And I note in some 8 of the backup material that the City Manager provided us with 9 a document called Guidelines for Service Contracts with Kerr 10 County, and Item Number 1 says each contract or service should 11 be administered in as much of a, quote, efficient business 12 model as possible. I think I know what that means. It may 13 have some specific meaning that I'm not aware of, but if it's 14 an efficient business model, it would certainly be one where 15 revenues meet or exceed costs. So, we have an opportunity 16 here for the people who use emergency services and their 17 insurance companies to pay for this service instead of Kerr 18 County taxpayers paying for it. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The City -- just one more 21 thing. I have not heard why the City doesn't have a -- an 22 interest in that. If they don't, we can have a two-tier 23 pricing system, one tier for the county and another tier for 24 the -- for the -- for the city, and we would charge a price 25 that would eliminate our need to subsidize that service. 7-18-06 bwk 66 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One other quick note -- Jon, 3 just a minute. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sure. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One follow-up on his -- I 6 found Number 2 interesting as well. The cost for the service 7 should not exceed the fair market value, FMV, in the free -- 8 free enterprise market. Now, unless I missed something in 9 Economics 101, free enterprise market, fair market value 10 usually contains a profit margin, an acceptable profit margin. 11 That's all I'm going to say. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd like to explore further what 13 you were saying on the user-pay side on EMS. I think we got 14 disjointed with the City last year on this topic, because they 15 didn't want -- they just didn't want to bill it. And I think 16 the way to possibly do it -- handle it this year is just, 17 whenever they run into the county, they tell us they run into 18 the county, give us that sheet, and we can decide to bill it 19 or not and leave the City out of that loop totally. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's not -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I don't -- as an 22 example, I know they don't collect money on dry runs, whatever 23 they call them. They have a little different term, but 24 basically run out there and they refuse transport. And the -- 25 there's one run that Chief Holloway and I were talking about 7-18-06 bwk 67 1 over in Falling Water. I think 30 minutes for the ambulance 2 to get there, which I think is a pretty good response time, 3 but then when they got up there, the patient refused to 4 transport, so they came back empty. So, no one paid for that 5 except all the taxpayers of the city. My view is that 6 individual or household should be sent a bill. If the City 7 chooses not to do that, doesn't -- last year they didn't want 8 to discuss doing it, but I really don't know why we can't send 9 an invoice of our own for that. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We can. I hadn't thought 11 of that. See, the City is in the business of user-pay on 12 solid waste pickup, trash and water and -- and sewage, and 13 probably some other things, so it's not a foreign concept. 14 It's a concept of, if you tap into the sewer, you're going to 15 pay something every month. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I don't think you're going 17 to -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You pay for what you use. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think you're going to 20 end up with receiving enough revenue to pay for the EMS costs, 21 but we might be able to reduce it 20 percent, which is a 22 sizable amount of money. That's almost $50,000. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, Mr. Bock, we are 24 interested in talking about user-pay for the EMS. Did you 25 hear that? 7-18-06 bwk 68 1 MR. BOCK: Yes, I did. May I make a comment on -- 2 on the comments made, they were from Councilman Coleman. On 3 the -- in reference to the -- 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's thought-provoking. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else on City/County 7 operations? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Glad we got all that 9 settled. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I think the other two 11 remaining issues are probably, for discussion purposes, 12 probably lumped together, are they not? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: So, let's talk about human resources 15 and intertwined with reorganization issues. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Mr. Williams, will you talk 17 about what we learned yesterday? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, let me get started 19 here. What we learned yesterday -- what did we learn 20 yesterday? We had a very interesting meeting with a 21 representative from Texas Association of Counties. Her name 22 is Diana Cecil. She came down to visit us, and she provided 23 us with a whole lot of basic information, which I want to -- 24 we want to share with the members of the Court. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: She's a human resource 7-18-06 bwk 69 1 manager, professional with about 20 years experience. Bill 2 and I offered her a job, and she told us we couldn't afford 3 her. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: She started out in 5 Williamson County and worked her way all the way up to the top 6 of that, and went to private enterprise and did her stint in 7 private enterprise, and with an employee group of -- what did 8 she say, about 1,000, something like that? And so the lady 9 knows what she's talking about. What we have -- what we have 10 given you is just an overview of benefits, size of the 11 department -- which I think we can ignore that, because that's 12 -- that's number two; that's somewhat of an inflated formula 13 for determining the size of the department. Functions of a 14 modern H.R. department. It talks about all the various things 15 that an H.R. department has to deal with in today's world, and 16 qualifications of an H.R. manager. Some of the other 17 documents that we provided you have to do -- have to do with 18 what should be in the personnel files, and how to get that and 19 do all that, and the maintenance of those files, recordkeeping 20 in general. And then the last sheet is taken from the Comal 21 County's H.R. department, which details the responsibilities 22 of the Human Resource Director for Comal County. Dave and I, 23 in listening to her talk about the -- some objectives, we made 24 some notes about things that she talked to us about, and did 25 some follow-up. I've got some follow-up stuff, and Dave, the 7-18-06 bwk 70 1 same thing. Might be interesting to note that Kendall County, 2 our neighbor to the east, is going through the same exercise 3 we're going through right now in terms of establishing an H.R. 4 department with about the same number of employees, probably, 5 that we have. So, it's not a foreign concept, and more and 6 more counties are doing it all the time. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Their population's half. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why don't you pick it up, 9 Dave? I'll come back to what the Comal County -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Before we get off that, you mentioned 11 that Kendall County had about the same number of employees? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, that's what she told 13 us. She thought that their employee group was just about the 14 size of ours. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's about half the 16 population -- about half the size. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, then we're really 18 oversized, aren't we, then? 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I won't talk to them. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That was what she said. 21 Don't know if that's true or not, but it doesn't make any 22 difference. 23 MS. UECKER: It's not true. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're not that big. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, I think where 7-18-06 bwk 71 1 Commissioner Williams and I are is that we should go ahead and 2 establish an H.R. function and have it headed by an H.R. 3 director with a minimum of five years experience in the field. 4 There should be a generalist function -- that's a word used in 5 the trade; it means do everything that's associated with 6 personnel management, including payroll -- and that you would 7 need a -- the job would need a clerk for backup, and for -- to 8 handle the workload, and that clerk could probably serve to 9 also relieve the Commissioners Court Coordinator of some of 10 the -- some of the workload there. We need to move quickly to 11 do this by the end of September, first of October. And the 12 next -- the next step -- next two steps are to decide on 13 the -- well, the first step is to agree that we're going to do 14 this, and then establish a -- a salary that we're willing to 15 offer and authorize an advertising campaign to find candidates 16 for the -- for the job. It does occur to me and Mr. Williams 17 that there may be some local candidates that are qualified. 18 Several organizations in Kerr County have personnel managers, 19 have personnel departments, and it could be that we would find 20 someone locally. So, we're going to suggest that we advertise 21 in the local newspaper, and that we advertise in the San 22 Antonio newspaper. We believe that there's a -- there's 23 someone out there who's got all the qualifications and would 24 like to live in the beautiful Texas hill country, and we 25 can -- we can locate and recruit a very attractive candidate. 7-18-06 bwk 72 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Have you thought about the 2 Houston and Dallas papers? 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I have -- and let me follow 4 up on that. I went to the library this morning at 3 a.m. -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What library? 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The one there -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The one in your office? 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The one at my office. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: On his Dell computer. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And I did two things. I 11 did some business research, and I also researched a scientific 12 topic, eugenics and Social Darwinism. And I didn't have to 13 drive 30 miles and look for a parking place or wait till 14 9 a.m. So, anyhow... (Laughter.) 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Here's what you found out. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. What I found out -- 17 and our help from the Association of Counties helped us out 18 with this, too. In a few minutes, I found six web sites that 19 are directed at H.R. professionals, and each one of them has 20 -- five of the six has a recruiting function on it where 21 people can post their resumé or prospectus. Employers can 22 post a job. One of them that has got a lot of interest to it, 23 I think, is the Texas Municipal League. That's -- yeah, Bill 24 found something on them. We can place an online ad there for 25 $50. And I didn't -- even though I've only been retired for 7-18-06 bwk 73 1 10 years, we didn't have this when I worked. So, H.R. 2 professionals can, you know, enter that computer every day if 3 they've got some kind of specific job they're looking for; 4 they can find a lot of information. The other ones are Austin 5 H.R. Management Association. That one's the only free one. 6 We can post on there. The Houston H.R. organization. The 7 Dallas Association for Human Resource Management; that's 8 nationwide and international. And the National H.R. 9 Association. The free one is Austin. The others run from $50 10 to $150. I don't think we -- we would use all of them. I 11 think we'd use the free one for sure, which, in fact, sort of 12 sounds like the best one to me, and see if we can develop some 13 candidates in a relatively short period of time. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Texas Association of Counties does 15 not -- 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They don't do it. They 17 don't do it; the T.M.L. does it. I'm not not sure why they 18 have not provided a similar service. Of course, I don't know 19 if T.M.L. has H.R. reps on the road as TAC does, but TAC does 20 have H.R reps on the road. On the T.M.L. web site, there are 21 right now three or four positions being advertised. Some of 22 what we found out has to do a little bit about, you know, what 23 are we going to pay for this person or persons? And we really 24 think that the department, to be properly structured, needs to 25 be an H.R. director and a number-two person who would be 7-18-06 bwk 74 1 involved in payroll and backing up the H.R. and handling all 2 the various things on this -- on this full-page list of duties 3 and responsibilities. I think it's our belief that we're not 4 going to find that individual -- number-one individual for 5 probably less than $45,000. The range is going to take us up 6 from 45 to 55. We think that's -- we could also consider that 7 there are some of them who are -- who are paying as much as, 8 the top range, $96,000 to $106,000. They are county 9 governments doing that, but they're large county governments. 10 So, I think we -- I think we fall into the 45-55 11 category for the number-one person. Number-two person, 12 depending on how the job is structured, could -- can fall very 13 easily into our -- into our current grid. We can find an 14 adequate position for that job, which would essentially get us 15 started with the payroll function. And listening to all the 16 things that need to be done, it -- it appears to us that we 17 need to probably get the payroll function underway right away, 18 as quickly as possible, get that person going so that person 19 can be working with department heads/elected officials to get 20 the payroll functioning the way we ultimately want it to 21 function, with Mr. Trolinger's assistance. And then we can 22 take a little bit more time, perhaps, in sorting out 23 applicants and where we get them for the H.R. director spot. 24 One of the things that I found kind of interesting, 25 in talking to the Human Resource Director at Comal County, 7-18-06 bwk 75 1 was -- I'm sure our folks can attest to this as well -- the 2 number of federal and state laws that are in play -- that come 3 into play every day in the life of a county government or a 4 private enterprise employer, that have to be dealt with 5 through the Human Resources Department. There are something 6 like 28 to 30 federal and state laws that come into play every 7 single day in everything you do, so you really need somebody 8 who devotes that kind of time. We already know the 9 complexities of our health insurance program. We know those 10 complexities. Some of these federal and state laws, if 11 they're not done properly, like the HIPAA laws, carry criminal 12 penalties with them for violation of federal statutes. So, it 13 behooves us to make certain that we're going to do it and do 14 it right, and make certain that we take care of whatever 15 exposure -- try to limit our exposure in this regard. So, 16 that said, I think where we are is, we want to -- with your 17 concurrence, we want to start the process to find the two 18 people. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Question. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You gave us a number for the 22 number-one person, 45,000 to 55,000. The number-two person, 23 are you -- are you going to pull a number out of the air, or 24 take a recommendation from TAC, or are we going to try to fit 25 that person in our -- in our system as a -- whatever? 7-18-06 bwk 76 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We may already have that 2 person in our system. We may already -- we may already have a 3 person in our system who can handle the second spot and jump 4 in and do the payroll and get it moving quickly. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Pay scale and -- and grade 6 level is what I'm referring to. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think it will be 9 classified in our system. I think it's a nonexempt job, and 10 we will assign one of our salary grades to it. And we'd have 11 to make sure there's internal equity, that we're not paying 12 less or more compared to other jobs that require similar 13 know-how and accountability. Don't know what that is. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd like to give you that 16 level, but I don't have it at the top of my head, but I think 17 it's -- it's in the upper ranges of our -- 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I gave you some more data 19 on the -- the H.R. director job. One of y'all checked with 20 the City and found out they were paying their director 21 $67,000? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I checked with a source in 24 the energy industry. The only reason I checked with that is 25 to find out what -- what the top end is, 'cause they pay a 7-18-06 bwk 77 1 lot. They're paying their recruits out of college $60,000 2 starting salary, and five to seven years would be $70,000 to 3 $80,000. That's not an H.R. manager. That's -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: H.R. employee. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Our helper from TAC 6 recommended $50,000 to $60,000 would be competitive with other 7 small counties. I -- I started out looking at -- well, I did 8 -- tried to do some internal equity comparisons, and I finally 9 concluded there isn't any such thing as internal equity. 10 We're all over the board on salaries. I started out thinking 11 the lower end of that -- that range, but ultimately I decided 12 that we could get a very highly qualified person. There are 13 some -- a properly functioning H.R. department will save us 14 some money in a number of areas, and to do that, I think we 15 need to pay more like the $55,000 range. And I'm recommending 16 something that -- divided by 12, it's $55,200. We would not 17 pay relocation. There wouldn't be any up-front expenses. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The second position can 19 either be a human resources clerk, as is the title and job 20 description in Ector County, or it could be a human resources 21 generalist, as is one of the titles in the department in Comal 22 County. But the bottom line is, that person does -- works 23 under the direction of the human resources, does risk 24 management, works on payroll, assistant H.R., assistant for 25 claims supervision, workmen's comp, safety program, health, 7-18-06 bwk 78 1 dental, life insurance, accident reporting, employment 2 providers, policy compliance, on and on and on and on. We 3 think we can do it with two people. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Y'all have looked at it a lot 5 more than I have, but you're a little bit richer than I was 6 thinking. And not as much on the -- I would -- I think 7 $50,000 for the manager, in that area, and I look at -- I 8 really look at the second spot as really more of a clerk type. 9 I mean, I'm not sure what you were looking at in the, you 10 know, step and grades, but I was thinking of, you know, 11 probably a 14 or a 15 type. I've got a feeling y'all were 12 thinking higher than that. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I didn't do a real careful 14 analysis of our current structure, but I came up with 17. I 15 might be a little on the high side. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that's probably 17 where it is, 16, 17. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Depends a lot on what -- 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It depends on how you 20 structure the job. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think you're -- you've got to 22 be prepared for when the person -- the lead person gets sick, 23 that the job the function keeps going, or on vacation or 24 something. But, at the same time, I don't think there's 25 enough workload for most of the function to require two people 7-18-06 bwk 79 1 all the time. I mean, I don't think they're equal levels. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not equal levels. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Nowhere near. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Anyway, but I think that the -- 6 I mean, hopefully, one of y'all put this on our agenda for 7 Monday? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's on our agenda now. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, we can't make a decision 10 now; we're in a workshop. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I know, except we need a 12 little guidance in terms of advertising. So, I guess we can 13 put it on the agenda for Monday. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If it's on Monday's agenda, then 15 we can authorize -- 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah, you can think about 17 it a little bit. That -- that salary creeps up on you a 18 little bit. So, we're going to ask you to authorize the two 19 positions, the salary, and advertising budget of around $500. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Say that last part again? 22 I'm sorry. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Advertising budget of 24 around $500. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just to see if we can find 7-18-06 bwk 80 1 who we're looking for. 2 MR. TROLINGER: Also, on the County web site, I set 3 up an employment page, so I can post that. If y'all have -- 4 have the print material, I'll just paste it on there. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We'll have it for you 6 Monday afternoon. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd really be interested in 8 knowing how many hits we gets on that. 9 MR. TROLINGER: We've had eight so far since it was 10 put on; I just looked at it this morning. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, on that -- 12 MR. TROLINGER: The employment page. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That was quick. 14 MR. TROLINGER: And the page is blank, so -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wow. 16 MR. TROLINGER: -- eight people have looked for 17 employment so far on the county web site. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I was one of them. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You were one of them? 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm going to be unemployed 21 come January 1. (Laughter.) They got a long list over there 22 at Walmart for that greeter job; I don't have a chance. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I know. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Also, when we get to 25 Mr. Trolinger's budget, if we -- if the Court authorizes us to 7-18-06 bwk 81 1 proceed this way, we'll need to crank in some equipment in his 2 budget, a couple workstations. Or we can take Buster's 3 computer and -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Take mine. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Take Jon's. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You can have that antique 7 I've got. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that's what we've 9 got for you today. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Other than -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just on the other -- the 13 reorganization issues, which is somewhat related to this -- 14 somewhat, but not -- I'm -- I'm still wrestling with what the 15 right organization is for Maintenance, possibly Animal 16 Control, possibly Environmental Health, possibly Floodplain. 17 I know it's at Road and Bridge now, but I'm still not sure 18 that's the right fit there. You know, I don't know that we 19 can do anything. We may have to do -- some of that is going 20 to have to be addressed this year, I think, but I can't come 21 up with any structure that I like particularly. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm still giving it more 23 thought, and I'm where you are. If you ask me for a 24 recommendation right now, I don't have one. I know -- I've 25 got a couple of parameters, limiters. I think we should not 7-18-06 bwk 82 1 add a level of supervision. There shouldn't be another level 2 in the county government, and that we should look at combining 3 functions to eliminate the number of supervisors that we 4 currently have. That's all. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, I would agree. And we 6 have too many department -- and I use the term very loosely -- 7 department heads. I think if you -- but how you reorganize 8 that -- I think this is probably a good year to do it, just 9 because of some other situations that we're faced with. It's 10 a good time to do it; I'm just not sure the right way to do 11 that. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We've got -- got an opening 13 to talk about that again tomorrow if we wanted to, that 14 organization development. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And just -- what a lot of 16 counties do is they kind of call it a code compliance type 17 function. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Which is a -- 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Those things fit together. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Kind of fits. And Maintenance 22 doesn't fit in that group, but the other ones kind of do. 23 But, anyway, I'm still not sure how the best way to fit that 24 in. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One of the things we did not 7-18-06 bwk 83 1 do thus far is talk at any great length about the 2 restructuring of the administrative assistant of the Court. 3 We have not tackled that one yet. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That depends a lot -- it's also 5 related to this clerk function and what -- how much work that 6 clerk function gets, and then it also gets into whether 7 there's a receptionist function or not. It seems to me that 8 we're going away from a receptionist, even though I think it 9 would help most of the departments a lot. I would want to get 10 -- I think if there are going to be two people in the H.R. 11 department, I'd want to wait a year to make sure we needed 12 another person somewhere before we hired another person, 13 anyway. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I agree. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that's prudent. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think if we had -- 17 there's two new jobs in place, that we would say to the H.R. 18 Director and the Commissioners Court Coordinator, "Y'all sit 19 down and figure out how you can" -- 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Exactly. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- "can find some synergy 22 and work on stuff together." 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think at that point, also, 24 you'd get through a lot of the -- the timekeeping, payroll -- 25 not the payroll function, but keeping records of employees' 7-18-06 bwk 84 1 time. All that should be working, and then I think the other 2 elected officials could have maybe more meaningful input as to 3 whether their workload should go down when that whole system 4 gets up and running under the new Odyssey system. 5 (Discussion off the record.) 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All we have to do now is figure 7 out where the money's coming from 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's all. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm waiting for somebody to tell me 10 that as we sit here. You got anything else you'd like to 11 offer today under the agenda that we have posted today? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, under this agenda? No. 13 I was just going to recommend that we leave. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: That's when we're through with the 15 items under the agenda. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Adjourn. Adjournment. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think he's ready. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Williams? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, sir. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that it, gentlemen? Looks like 21 we're at the end of today's agenda. We'll stand adjourned. 22 Thank you. 23 (Budget workshop adjourned at 4:05 p.m.) 24 - - - - - - - - - - 25 7-18-06 bwk 85 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my 5 capacity as County Clerk of the Commissioners Court 6 of Kerr County, Texas, at the time and place 7 heretofore set forth. 8 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 24th day of 9 July, 2006. 10 11 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 12 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 13 Certified Shorthand Reporter 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 7-18-06 bwk