1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Budget Workshop 10 Wednesday, July 19, 2006 11 1:30 p.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 DAVE NICHOLSON, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X July 19, 2006 2 PAGE 3 Review and discuss various matters with respect to FY 2006-07 Budget and matters having budgetary impact, 4 including but not limited to the following matters and/or the consideration of budgets for the following 5 departments: 6 Tax Assessor/Collector 3 District Attorneys 20 7 District Courts 30 Information Technology 41 8 Commissioners Court 74 Organization Development 86 9 Step and Grade Schedules Sheriff's proposal for consolidation 94 10 Proposal for moving up Grades 12 & 13 118 Non-Departmental 124 11 Adjourned 131 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 On Wednesday, July 19, 2006, at 1:30 p.m., a budget 2 workshop of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me call to order this workshop 8 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court. It was posted 9 for this date and time, Wednesday, July the 19th, at 1:30 p.m. 10 We've got a number of folks here that are on their individual 11 budgets. We got some general items that, in deference to the 12 folks that are here, we may want to start at the bottom and 13 work up so that we can get that resolved. I would note for 14 members of the Court, because of a conflict on the Tax 15 Assessor's schedule, who was originally scheduled to be on, I 16 believe, the 28th, because of a conflict there, we're going to 17 put them on this afternoon's agenda. I assume nobody on the 18 Court has a problem with that? Why don't we just work from 19 the bottom up and go with the Tax Assessor at this point. 20 (Cell phone rang in the courtroom.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Anybody I know? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's 25 bucks. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Tab 14. Okay. Ms. Rector? 24 MS. RECTOR: Yes, sir. Where would you like to 25 begin? 7-19-06 bwk 4 1 JUDGE TINLEY: How about with 10-499? 2 MS. RECTOR: All right. How about 499-206, Bonds 3 and Insurance? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 5 MS. RECTOR: Okay. That was one I had left blank, 6 'cause I had been working with my insurance company because of 7 the -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 9 MS. RECTOR: -- change in position and seeing what 10 was going to be required, and the only thing for this upcoming 11 year is the public official bond of $375. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: That's all? 13 MS. RECTOR: Everything else is transferable. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 15 MS. RECTOR: Everything that's been paid up through 16 my four-year and my two-year bonds will all be transferable 17 over to Diane. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 19 MS. RECTOR: Except for the public official, which 20 they'll have to rewrite that bond at $375. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: $375? 22 MS. RECTOR: Yes. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 24 MS. RECTOR: Yes. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. As a matter of general 7-19-06 bwk 5 1 interest, when it comes to these bonds, some of those are 2 every two years, and -- 3 MS. RECTOR: Or every four. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: -- different types, and -- 5 MS. RECTOR: Every year, yeah. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: -- they kind of change around. 7 MS. RECTOR: Yeah. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. What else do you have for us? 9 MS. RECTOR: I did notice that on Employee Training, 10 that your recommended was $500 less than what I had requested. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: That's correct. 12 MS. RECTOR: Which was what I had for last year, and 13 due to the fact I am leaving, I think some of -- of the people 14 that are going to be changed around are going to need some 15 additional training, and I would like to see that line item 16 stay at 15. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Restored? 18 MS. RECTOR: Yes. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you want to explain that 20 a little bit in detail? 21 MS. RECTOR: The person coming in from the Ingram 22 office is going to be stepping into one of the positions. 23 Since she's been in Ingram, she's probably going to need a 24 little further training and probably some classes with some of 25 the tax information to kind of refresh her. She's been more 7-19-06 bwk 6 1 on the motor vehicle side than she's been on the tax side. 2 And I would like to see that money stay there for any 3 additional training that Diane may think possibly needs to be 4 done for the employees. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's your call, not mine, 7 but why? We like her a lot. Why is she coming back to the 8 courthouse? 9 MS. RECTOR: Well, because she has agreed to do it. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 11 MS. RECTOR: Yeah. And I think it'll be -- I know 12 everybody out there's going to miss her, but the replacement 13 is going to be just as good. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That -- 15 MS. RECTOR: We're going to make a good transition. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That office is one of the 17 good examples of good, efficient government. People like 18 that. 19 MS. RECTOR: They do. They really do. It has 20 worked out very, very well. Okay, let's see what else we had 21 here. I think I had seen -- I think, also, on 420, which is 22 Telephone -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 24 MS. RECTOR: -- recommended, I had requested 5,500. 25 Your recommendation was 3,500. I would like to see that at 7-19-06 bwk 7 1 3,700. When I average out what we're spending monthly on the 2 telephone bill, that I think that -- that's going to be a 3 little short. You had recommended 35. I'd like to see 37 4 instead of 55. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: In amortizing that, it comes out to 6 about 3,100. Is there some additional telephone service that 7 you -- you put in place that -- 8 MS. RECTOR: There is one addition in this -- well, 9 it happened this year. I had to buy a new fax machine, and 10 since that is on a phone line, they are charging me .022 -- 11 two cents per print, which is going to go against the 12 telephone bill. So, that's something new. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On cell phones, or other phones 15 for that matter -- I hate to bring this up again with Rusty in 16 the room, 'cause he got mad last time I brought it up. John, 17 where's technology on getting us off this and using more of 18 the -- with broadband -- is that the right terminology? 19 MR. TROLINGER: As replacement for cell phones? I 20 haven't explored that -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or land lines. 22 MR. TROLINGER: Only thing I've explored is, the 23 Sheriff is consolidating the contracts, and he's done a very 24 good job at negotiating with Five Star Wireless. I think if 25 anything's not consolidated with cell phones, it's the 7-19-06 bwk 8 1 courthouse. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There are going to be two items 3 on the agenda for next Commissioners Court meeting about 4 phones. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can't hear you, Sheriff. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Next agenda, it will be on. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's already handed in there 8 that there will be items on the next agenda, two separate 9 ones, about cell phone service and cell phones. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Your investigation or your 11 work you're doing on that, would that be just for cell phones 12 in the Sheriff's Department, or would it be for cell phones in 13 the entire county system? 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Cell phones for the Sheriff's 15 Department. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Maybe perhaps we should look 17 at cell phones for the entire county system. 18 MR. TROLINGER: Well, I did look into a new company 19 that's moving into the area, and basically provides coverage 20 out just past Ingram, I think out west about a mile past 21 Ingram and through the core of Kerrville. It's basically a 22 new company with one of those new wireless licenses that were 23 just recently distributed, I think, 2003. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm not -- 25 MR. TROLINGER: They built out their system. 7-19-06 bwk 9 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- not interested in 2 changing companies. I think I'm suggesting the economies of 3 scale by putting all of the cell phone utilization under one 4 contract. 5 MR. TROLINGER: Right. Well, the reason I mention 6 that is, it's about half the cost of conventional cell phone 7 service, if it's just required inside the city and no farther 8 past Ingram going west. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Barbara -- I'm sorry, Paula, do 10 you use Five Star? 11 MS. RECTOR: No, I have my own cell phone that I pay 12 for. My office does not have a cell phone. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I mean your office. What do 14 they use? 15 MS. RECTOR: We don't have cell phones. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Don't have cell phones; that was 17 all regular. Okay. 18 MS. RECTOR: That's regular telephone. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We don't want you getting any. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If you look at the -- 21 MS. RECTOR: I like that idea. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If you look at the backup on 23 that agenda item, you see exactly what it would cost to have 24 the entire county also to go to it. It's not figured directly 25 in it, but it's under the new business type. And what I'm 7-19-06 bwk 10 1 asking to do is save the County, just on Sheriff's Office, 2 about $200 a month on cell phones alone, and it's a new 3 business system that Five Star has. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: John, might it be cheaper -- I 5 don't know. I'm looking to you for information on phones. It 6 just seems that -- personally, I presume they're doing it at 7 the courthouse, and everybody else too; phone companies are -- 8 are making up their losses elsewhere on business customers who 9 need hard lines. And I suspect they're doing it -- we're 10 classified as a business customer. You know, phones are going 11 to be a huge portion of our budget. Already are a huge 12 portion of our budget. But is there anything we can do to -- 13 with technology to lower that cost? Whether it's go into more 14 cell phones or go into broadband, something -- I know we had a 15 bad experience the first time we tried to make a switch 16 because of the quality, and we clearly should have some 17 regular hard lines. I'm not saying we should get rid of all 18 of them, but we can reduce it, certainly. Seems like the way 19 the future's going. 20 MR. TROLINGER: With cell phones, I compared Sprint 21 and Five Star. They were roughly equivalent, and with what 22 the Sheriff's negotiated, it's the best deal -- the best 23 coverage for the county overall. For the -- for the 24 technology side, if we're going to talk about internet phones, 25 eventually, yes, it will be there, and we could use 7-19-06 bwk 11 1 internet-based services versus hard-wired services. But 2 it's -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're not there yet? 4 MR. TROLINGER: As we found out, it's not there yet. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. All right. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What accounts for the 7 $15,000 increase in deputy salaries? 8 MS. RECTOR: Let me get there. The position 9 schedule from last year, I think what I had figured is I've 10 got just one employee that is due a longevity, and then I had 11 merit for two other employees, plus the COLA that I had 12 figured in, and I had just figured two and a half. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: COLA is part of it? 14 MS. RECTOR: Yeah. That's just my proposed -- 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Should be over four, so 16 part of the COLA's in there. 17 MS. RECTOR: Yeah. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 19 MS. RECTOR: Okay. There's telephone, okay. Also, 20 Lease Copier, on 461, I had requested 3,700, which is my 21 actual contract for my two copy machines, one in my Ingram 22 office, one in this office here. And he -- the recommended 23 was 3,200. And in refiguring those contracts, I think 3,600 24 will cover the contracts, not 37. 'Cause I have two copiers 25 that's under contract. 7-19-06 bwk 12 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I'm having a problem. If we 2 run a month behind, which is the way I calculate and amortize 3 these things, then 1,400 is -- is six month's worth -- 4 actually, this is the seventh printout. But if we run a month 5 behind -- 6 MS. RECTOR: It also depends on how many copies are 7 made, both in my Ingram office and here in this office. The 8 amount of copies -- you have so many that are included in one 9 locked-in price, and then you're charged for each additional 10 copy after that. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. You've got one of those where, 12 at the end of the trail, they hit you in the rear flank with a 13 big, fat bill, huh? 14 MS. RECTOR: Mm-hmm. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 16 MS. RECTOR: Yeah. So I'd like to keep a little -- 17 a little extra in there just in case we -- if we have a large 18 volume of copies that we have to make, that it's going to -- 19 it's going to cover it, 'cause it all comes out on the same 20 bill. Are we talking about Capital Outlay? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: You can talk about it. I'm not sure 22 we're going to make any decision today, but -- 23 MS. RECTOR: Okay. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: I.T. has recommended 4,600. 25 MS. RECTOR: Right. And in my backup, -- 7-19-06 bwk 13 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 2 MS. RECTOR: -- if you'll look at my backup, I had 3 asked for 11 new chairs. The chairs in my office are 4 terrible. They're falling apart. We've had some of them just 5 completely fall apart with the employee sitting in them. The 6 chairs that I have are in really bad shape. There's a lot of 7 them that have been thrown to the back because the -- the 8 backs fall off of them or they're just -- they're old. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: You don't allow any J.P.'s to come in 10 and sit in them, do you? 11 MS. RECTOR: Well, I could. So, I would like for 12 you all to consider allowing the purchase of some new chairs 13 for the office, outside of what John has recommended for 14 computers. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 16 MS. RECTOR: And I think that was everything we had 17 as far as differences. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 19 MS. RECTOR: And I think one thing I would like to 20 add, we had a visit this morning from the director of TexDOT 21 out of our regional office in San Antonio; brought us some new 22 information about what's coming to us from the state level 23 beginning September 1st. All exempt plates, personalized 24 plates, special plates, D.V. plates, any military plates, they 25 were all handled at the state level. The person would come to 7-19-06 bwk 14 1 our office, we give them an application. They'd fill it out, 2 they'd send their money to Austin. Austin will process the 3 application, send the plates to us. They would come in and 4 pick them up. We're going to be doing all of it. We're going 5 to be handling the processing of all the plates through our 6 office, which means from the application to handling the fees 7 to ordering the actual plate and issuing the plate and 8 collecting the money on our end. So, that is going to be some 9 additional workload. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Any additional revenue? 11 MS. RECTOR: Yes. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Is it significant? 13 MS. RECTOR: Not really. It's going to be $1.90 to 14 the county. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Is that enough to hire a 16 different -- an additional clerk, or pay for a clerk? 17 MS. RECTOR: In my office? 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 19 MS. RECTOR: Possibly. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Don't hire one. 21 MS. RECTOR: Well, and that's -- well, and another 22 thing I wanted to mention also, that TexDOT keeps track of all 23 the transactions that we do per year, and they determine how 24 many workstations and how many bodies you should actually have 25 doing the processing, and they're saying 8,000 transactions 7-19-06 bwk 15 1 per clerk. Mine are doing well over 10,000 now, and they're 2 recommending another workstation. But if I don't have a body 3 to put in that workstation, I -- there's no point in TexDOT 4 even considering bringing me another workstation. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: More unfunded stuff from 6 the state. Kind of interesting; I read in the newspaper today 7 that the new driver's license requirements -- 8 MS. RECTOR: Yes. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- are going to cost more 10 than $100, and you're not going to be able to do it by mail; 11 you're going to have to go over to D.P.S. and stand in line. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Will you be also taking 13 renewals on the special plates? 14 MS. RECTOR: Yes, we'll handle all the renewals. 15 Everything from the state level is coming to the county level. 16 We'll have to maintain a stock of all of those different kinds 17 of special plates. Not personalized, but just like you see 18 with the horny toad on it or the deer, or -- and there's 100 19 different types of special plates, and we have a lot of folks 20 in Kerr County that really like those special plates. So, we 21 see a lot of additional workload coming in, plus we're -- we 22 started doing internet renewals for vehicle registration. 23 That is also taking a person's time every day, processing 24 those renewals. Plus the banking end of it, it all comes out 25 separate on the banking; separate reports that have to be 7-19-06 bwk 16 1 processed to the state. This is going to do the same thing. 2 All these exempt plates and personalized plates will all be 3 handled with a special report, different type of funding to 4 the state is how we transmit our money. So, it's going to 5 really increase the workload. Plus -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Paula? Paula, what would 7 happen if you were to say, "Thank you, but no thank you, we're 8 not interested"? 9 MS. RECTOR: In processing those? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Any of that stuff. 11 MS. RECTOR: No, the last legislative session handed 12 that down to the county. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. Okay. 14 MS. RECTOR: Yeah. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I understand that. 16 That's -- as long as -- 17 MS. RECTOR: And I think that was House Bill 18 152.0412 -- oh, no, that's standard presumptive value. 19 There's another one. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, there's another one? 21 MS. RECTOR: Oh, yeah. Listen to this one. You 22 guys are going to love this. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Don't get started, please. 24 MS. RECTOR: That House Bill I just mentioned is 25 the -- a standard presumptive value of the sale of a motor 7-19-06 bwk 17 1 vehicle. Any transaction between individuals -- this does not 2 have anything to do with dealers. They sell a vehicle to 3 another individual; they come into the office. TexDOT is 4 going to provide us with blue books. We're going to 5 physically have to go to the blue book, look up the retail 6 price of that vehicle. They will pay -- we have to calculate 7 80 percent of that retail price. It has nothing to do with 8 what it was sold for and what they put on that piece of paper. 9 Or they can go to a certified licensed dealer for an 10 appraisal, which is going to cost them $100. So, that's 11 another thing that we see a lot of unhappy taxpayers coming in 12 when we have to say, "Sorry, you bought this vehicle for 13 $5,000, but the blue book says it's worth $8,000, so we have 14 to charge you tax on that amount." So, that's going to be 15 another additional thing that's -- 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's all vehicles, 17 including big RV's and everything else? 18 MS. RECTOR: Mm-hmm. They're starting with just 19 passenger cars and light -- light trucks, pickups, and then 20 we're going to have to go into the larger vehicles. But the 21 State is not ready at this time to provide us with a blue book 22 on those, or we'd have blue books for every type of vehicle on 23 the road. But it's coming. It's coming. Those people will 24 have to go get an appraisal. But as far as the other -- just 25 sales between individuals, we will be looking that price up. 7-19-06 bwk 18 1 We will be explaining that to them, that it's no longer what 2 they put on that piece of paper is what we tax them on. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How thoughtful of the State 4 not to dump it on you all at once. 5 MS. RECTOR: They tried it last session and we shot 6 it down, but it -- it got through this last time. So -- but 7 just -- in this calendar year, versus last calendar year of 8 January 1 through December 31st, just vehicle transactions, 9 vehicle registrations, we processed 2,254 more than we did 10 last year. That's just renewals; that's not titles. We've 11 done 1,290 transactions within six months of this year versus 12 six months -- the last six months of last year, just on 13 titles. So, when you add titles and registrations together, 14 you're looking at over 4,000 transactions more than we had 15 last year. So, we're growing, and it's showing in my office. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Paula, the workstations 17 over on your title and registration side, are -- are they 18 linked into the internet? 19 MS. RECTOR: No. That's all TexDOT equipment. 20 That's all supplied by the State. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Blue book is on the 22 internet. 23 MS. RECTOR: Yeah. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: May be easier to look it up 25 in a paper book; I don't know. 7-19-06 bwk 19 1 MS. RECTOR: Well, but then each clerk would have to 2 get out of the TexDOT and go into the internet, and -- 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It probably wouldn't work. 4 MR. TROLINGER: The best I could do there is, on the 5 Odyssey budget, we provided a public computer in place of the 6 terminal, so now Paula's got a computer there that does have 7 internet access. 8 MS. RECTOR: Well, but -- Nell's got internet on 9 hers, but then that would shift every customer coming in with 10 a title transaction having to go to Nell and say, "Okay, would 11 you look this up?" 12 MR. TROLINGER: Well, I was thinking more 13 self-service for the public. You'd have to send them over to 14 the internet. 15 MS. RECTOR: Sounds easy, but no. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Paula, one quick question. 17 You budgeted downward on -- on your postage. Does that have 18 anything to do with voter registration? 19 MS. RECTOR: Yes. That's because we're in the off 20 year of mass mailout, so that affects the postage, and I've 21 taken that out of office supply also. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, thanks. 23 MS. RECTOR: That's just an every-other-year thing. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? 25 MS. RECTOR: Anything else? 7-19-06 bwk 20 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thank you. 2 MS. RECTOR: Thank you. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's come up one more notch 4 to the District Attorneys. I see we have one here. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What tab is that? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Number 8. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. Yes. It is now your job, 8 Mr. Curry, to put everyone in a nice, happy frame of mind. 9 MR. CURRY: Yeah. Well, the Judge said he'd prefer 10 to go before me. 11 JUDGE ABLES: Just kidding. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I understand why he might have said 13 that. 14 JUDGE ABLES: Could get you in a bad mood. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Bruce, let me ask you if I'm 16 reading this right. The budget we're under today is 250,000, 17 and you're going to 427,000? Am I on the wrong page? 18 MR. CURRY: I -- I'm not sure about the -- that's 19 probably right. 400 -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that what you see, 21 Commissioner Williams? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir, that's what I see. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We may be here for a while. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What -- is there -- that's 25 a large percentage gain. Is something going on? 7-19-06 bwk 21 1 MR. CURRY: It's the -- of course, the personnel 2 issue. The main items that we're asking there for is the -- 3 asking for an assistant District Attorney and an investigator, 4 and that's, I think, the bulk of the -- the difference. And, 5 of course, those carry all the expenses that go along with 6 the -- with the positions, but that's the primary -- just -- 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: How does your level of 8 activity compare with 198th or other -- other District 9 Attorneys? 10 MR. CURRY: Well, you know, I always hate to get out 11 statistics. I think if you look around the state, from what 12 I've seen, we're -- put it this way. My colleagues ask how 13 many assistants we have, and I say one. And we've had that 14 for 20 years, and they kind of say, "You're kidding," you 15 know, one of those kind of deals. We are to the point -- I 16 like to -- I refer in my own mind, at least, about four or 17 five years ago, it seems like -- and I don't know what the 18 magic figure was, we sort of hit a saturation, it seemed to 19 me. We were able to function, and then it just got to a 20 point, particularly in this county, we just couldn't keep up 21 with it effectively. And it hasn't done anything but expand 22 since then, and we're just simply falling behind and behind. 23 Our trial dockets are three and four pages long. The pretrial 24 dockets are eight to ten pages long. And it's just a matter 25 of -- I'm talking about in this county -- not being able to 7-19-06 bwk 22 1 come up for air. And I think we've just grown; it's just 2 caught up with us. Essentially, we've had the -- the 3 two-lawyer system in our office -- well, the entire time I've 4 been there, basically. We've had the luxury of having an 5 assistant under the task force grant for so long. Now the 6 task force is gone, so at this point, she is a regular 7 assistant, but the manpower has stayed the same. I used to 8 have an investigator -- Rusty's not listening -- Buddy 9 Hierholzer, who was part-time. He actually worked about 80 10 hours a week, and that was great. Buddy, for health reasons, 11 had to resign, and I haven't had one since. And that just 12 makes a tremendous difference in being able to go out in these 13 law enforcement areas, put these cases together and do a lot 14 of the groundwork. That -- that's the problem. We're just 15 trying to get back to ground zero with these cases. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Bruce, if you had the additional 17 investigator -- I almost hate to ask this question -- could 18 you get them through the courts? I mean, what I hear is that 19 the courts are backed up, so adding -- unless you add 20 something at the 216th court level, adding more D.A.'s at your 21 level really doesn't do any good. 22 MR. CURRY: That's a ticklish question. You know, 23 it's hard to know. All I can say is five years ago, we were 24 able to do that, and I think it's the processing as much as 25 anything else. We get these cases -- you know, like, we're 7-19-06 bwk 23 1 indicting I don't even know how many a month. Of course, it 2 varies, but 50 to 75 cases a month throughout the district. 3 New cases coming on board, and just physically taking those 4 cases and working them up, so to speak; I'm not talking about 5 just for Grand Jury, but actually for pretrial and all that, 6 is just a tremendous amount. And an investigator can do that, 7 a large amount of that, at least. Which we don't have anybody 8 doing it now except us, and that puts us -- to get kind of 9 technical, you get into this 404(b) and the 37.07 notice 10 requirements. And it's just -- it's just a bit much when you 11 got that kind of a docket running when you don't have somebody 12 to help you. 13 Would processing get those cases moved? I think so. 14 Of course, it's got to be through plea negotiations. If -- if 15 all of them get tried, we're sunk. I mean, obviously, we 16 don't have enough judges and prosecutors and courtrooms and 17 everything to do that. But as to processing the cases, my 18 hope would be that we can get back to that level where we 19 could maintain. Now, can I articulate to you why that 20 happens? I can't articulate to myself why that happens, but 21 it does. It seems like when we -- when we could process the 22 cases rapidly and efficiently, we -- we didn't seem to have 23 this kind of a problem. I don't know if the Judge would agree 24 or not, but in my mind, four or five years ago, we were in a 25 lot better shape with this docket, and I think it's just 7-19-06 bwk 24 1 numbers. That's been the increase. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Bruce, what's the percentage 3 of caseload or docket that is Kerr County versus the rest of 4 the district? 5 MR. CURRY: Oh, I'm sorry, I don't know exactly. 6 Probably 50 percent. I would say 50, maybe a little more. 7 About 50. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: The allocation which you've made to 9 the various counties, that's based on a population 10 determination? 11 MR. CURRY: I believe Tommy Tomlinson did those. I 12 didn't do those figures, but I believe that's the way it's 13 based, population. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I thought Bandera was in the 15 216th. Isn't Bandera County -- 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Bottom one. You're on the 18 wrong page. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, thank you. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Bottom line here is, we 21 would be going from 90,000 -- 89,000 to 162,000; is that 22 correct? 23 MR. CURRY: Kerr County's portion. I don't have 24 that figure. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: 103 of -- of this current year's 7-19-06 bwk 25 1 budget is the 41 percent. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The assistants, then, would 3 be going from one to two? 4 MR. CURRY: Yes, sir. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And how many are under the 6 secretary category? 7 MR. CURRY: We have three secretaries right now, and 8 I'm not asking for an additional secretary. We'll see how 9 that works, but we -- 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The investigator's a new 11 position? 12 MR. CURRY: That would be a new position. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got a question and a 14 comment. Where, Bruce, are you going to put these people? 15 You've been in that closet for 20 years. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Juvenile Detention Facility 17 with the library. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There you go. 20 MR. CURRY: Actually, I have a location which goes 21 to this storage issue. There is another office back there 22 that I have half finished out. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 24 MR. CURRY: And it's just waiting to be done, and 25 the investigator will just be there in our office, but I 7-19-06 bwk 26 1 assume is going to be traveling a lot. That's going to be the 2 main thing. There has been some question -- we've talked 3 about it, and I think Kendall County would be agreeable to it, 4 to put an assistant housed in the Kendall County Courthouse. 5 They got that third floor. And my problem is, if that became 6 an alternative, who to get, you know, frankly. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 8 MR. CURRY: It would need to be somebody probably 9 that lived in that area, which would be fine, but that's 10 another issue. That's a possibility. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, and my comment is, 12 historically, this guy has come before the Commissioners Court 13 a few times, and hardly ever asked for anything. And on 14 occasions, he's asked for something, and a few times we've 15 said no, and he says, "Okay, thanks," and walks out. You 16 know, he's just really operated in a conservative manner all 17 these many, many years, and there's not much -- not much more 18 than a closet. I don't see how you do that. But I think we 19 need to really focus on this thing, because this is one of the 20 -- one of the cogs in the wheel that makes the whole system 21 work. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Would you be amenable to 23 moving your operation if we provided other facilities? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I can answer that for him. 25 MR. CURRY: If it -- if we needed to, yeah. 7-19-06 bwk 27 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just looking ahead. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Want to run our new library? 3 (Laughter.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Would Ms. Brown be amenable to that? 5 MR. CURRY: To -- I'm not going to speak for her. 6 What was the question? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I thought I'd catch you in a trap 8 here, but -- 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, we would be picking up, 10 according to your allocation, about 41.2 percent of your 11 entire budget; is that correct? No? 12 MR. CURRY: That sounds right. Again, I don't have 13 those figures. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what I was reading. 15 MR. CURRY: I've always thought of it as 50 percent, 16 roughly. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which, if I'm doing my math 18 correctly, translates into a modest increase. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Have you talked to the other 20 counties? Are they agreeable to additional staff? 21 MR. CURRY: So far as I know. I know Kendall County 22 -- I've been told Kendall county is. I've not really spoken 23 to the others. Those are smaller portions, of course. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If I can just ask Judge Ables a 25 quick question, would this help from your standpoint of 7-19-06 bwk 28 1 getting cases through courts, in addition -- I mean, 2 obviously, it'll help Bruce's workload. What's it do to your 3 workload? 4 JUDGE ABLES: We're hoping to get some help from the 5 Legislature, some money back in our retired judge budget. 6 When this thing started getting out of control was kind of the 7 time that we got cut; we couldn't use Murray -- Charlie 8 Sherrill or Murray Jordan very much. There was a time that I 9 could be trying a case, I could have Charlie trying a case in 10 Kendall County and Murry trying another one here, and Bruce 11 might get a special prosecutor, and we were really juggling 12 balls trying to keep as many cases going as we could. And 13 then we got our retired judge money gutted. But we went and 14 met with the chairman of the Appropriations Committee in 15 Waxahachie in Ellis County, and he's going to try to rally to 16 get some more money back into that, so if we -- if we got that 17 money again and Bruce could get this other assistant, we may 18 be able to keep, you know, two or three or four trials going 19 at one time to try to stay up. It is humanly impossible to 20 stay up any more. Bandera and Boerne are exploding. The 21 population's through the roof. And used to be that our -- our 22 docket here was staggering, but now those two dockets are -- 23 are becoming staggering. And Fredericksburg's managed it, but 24 Bandera and Boerne, it's really not that manageable. They 25 know they need some help in Kendall County, and that's the 7-19-06 bwk 29 1 reason they've kind of talked about having this prosecutor 2 down there. 3 But I -- all I can say is, I think Bruce and Kay and 4 Jane and Lucy have kind of done miraculous things to keep it 5 going, and to not just get completely flooded. I'm amazed how 6 well it's worked. He's got a great staff. They talk to these 7 attorneys, they work these deals like this, and they try and 8 keep it going, but we're just about at the end of our rope. 9 And we've got some other things we've been talking about, like 10 creating a new district court and maybe -- 'cause we're up to 11 126,000 population for four counties, and generally 50,000 per 12 district court is the rule of thumb, and so we're twice that. 13 So, we're trying to -- we're trying to come up with what we 14 can. But if he has another prosecutor, that person will have 15 their plate completely full immediately. They got all the 16 cases they want. And if they have an investigator, they can 17 really do a lot more quality work. Instead of having to talk 18 to every witness and go look at every crime scene and 19 investigate it, the investigator can put the case together for 20 them. So, Bruce, like you say, never asks for anything. I 21 don't know how he's done it. He's an incredible prosecutor. 22 I think he needs help. 23 MR. CURRY: And I didn't buy his lunch today. 24 (Laughter.) 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: He just got threatened by Kay. 7-19-06 bwk 30 1 JUDGE TINLEY: But the results may depend upon lunch 2 tomorrow, right? 3 JUDGE ABLES: It's true. 4 MR. CURRY: Thank you. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Any questions on any of these other 6 numbers that are plugged in here? 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Your main issue is staffing, right? 10 MR. CURRY: Right. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the whole enchilada? Okay. 12 Any more questions of Mr. Curry? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. 14 MR. CURRY: Thank you. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 16 MR. CURRY: Thank you very much. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's back up one notch to -- to 18 District Courts. 19 JUDGE ABLES: Judge Prohl is really sorry he 20 couldn't be here today, but he's got a conflict, and I've got 21 the pleasure of coming to see you. I think the budget's 22 pretty close to last year. The significant change on the 23 216th is a dramatic increase the court-appointed attorney's 24 fees, which kind of ties into what I'm saying with the -- with 25 the reason that -- that Bruce is working so hard, is he's 7-19-06 bwk 31 1 trying to get ready for all those cases. We have all these 2 additional attorneys representing all these additional 3 defendants, who are all getting ready for trial themselves. 4 It's a pretty dramatic job. Looks like -- we're projecting 5 we'll spend $160,000 for court-appointed attorneys fees in the 6 216th, and we only had budgeted last year 105, so that's a big 7 jump in mine. 8 In Karl's, he's pretty much on budget. We think 9 there might be a little change in that the task force has gone 10 away, and we used to do all the drug cases -- by mandate, we 11 had to do those in the 216th. And you may see a little bit of 12 that evening out, because we don't have to do those 216th task 13 force cases any more, so that may change a little bit. Karl 14 and I have really been trying to help each other. When I do 15 criminal pretrials tomorrow, you know, we'll have hundreds of 16 people up there. And Karl rearranged his schedule, and he's 17 going to come in and help me, 'cause we've been going till 18 late at night on these things. We're trying to really help 19 each other; trying to get some people out of jail, Rusty. 20 Where's Rusty? That's the significant thing. The salaries, I 21 think, all have to do with that COLA issue. There's one right 22 at the top, District Judges County Supplement, that we had not 23 had a -- a pay raise since 1997, the District Judges, and so 24 we got one at the last legislative session, and it took us to 25 a base line of 125. 7-19-06 bwk 32 1 The -- the numbers we were working off of that we 2 were trying to get the Legislature to buy into was, if we had 3 received a 4.5 percent COLA from 1997, based on our salary of 4 101, that would have been 138,000. The Legislature give us a 5 base line of 125, but then authorized us that we could get a 6 supplement from the counties for the difference between the 7 125 and the 138,9 or whatever it was. We were -- we had 8 always received a Juvenile Board payment, and there had been 9 an opinion -- or there had been a position by the 10 Comptroller's office that that's all we could get; we couldn't 11 get any more than that. Then the A.G. issued an opinion two 12 months ago that said no, that's not right; that we could 13 get -- in addition to the Juvenile Board allotment, that we 14 could get up to that 138,9, and so Karl and I had requested 15 that supplement from the County, and it's 2,550. And we 16 divided equally; we didn't do it by population. We took our 17 counties, his five and my four, and worked it out where it 18 would be equal. But that's a little different. That's not a 19 COLA. There was nothing, I guess, to apply the COLA to. But 20 we stuck that in our budget, and that's -- we're -- if y'all 21 agree to do it, we'd appreciate it. I think the rest of the 22 things are about the same. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, on that, if we give a 24 COLA, y'all do or don't get it? 25 JUDGE ABLES: We don't get it. We haven't -- we 7-19-06 bwk 33 1 have parameters on how much we can get. Now, if you were to 2 give us a supplement of $1,000, and then next year give us a 3 4 percent COLA and we're still underneath the cap that they 4 put us under, then yeah, we could get it. But we're always -- 5 I have to fill out an affidavit and send it to the 6 Comptroller's office and tell them what I make from every 7 source to make sure that it doesn't exceed a certain amount, 8 which is based on what a Court of Appeals judge makes. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, did I understand you 10 correctly that the 2,550 of the supplement will be in your 11 request to the other three counties as well? 12 JUDGE ABLES: Yes. They've all approved it, and 13 Karl's other counties have approved it. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: And that's divvied up by counties, 15 not by population or case load? 16 JUDGE ABLES: That's correct. That's right. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: That means our share of it, 18 population-wise, is really the short share. 19 JUDGE ABLES: That's right. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Judge, I'd like to look at 21 the salary categories, 105, 106, and 108, 109. 22 JUDGE ABLES: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: How many employees are in 24 each of those four categories? 25 JUDGE ABLES: All the employees are here. Well, 7-19-06 bwk 34 1 court coordinator for Karl lives here, but he has -- I'm not 2 -- the court reporter Karl has is here, but he also has one in 3 Mason County that's on a contract basis to do work in Mason 4 and Brady a lot, and -- and doesn't travel over here very 5 much. All of my people live here. My court reporter, the 6 court coordinator, the deputy court coordinator, and the 7 receptionist all work out of Kerr County. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. So, court 9 coordinator line item is two people; is that right? 10 JUDGE ABLES: Court coordinator is one. Well, did 11 you put Mary Frances -- I think it's just -- 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I just got court 13 coordinator, 78,249. 14 JUDGE ABLES: That's one person, yes. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Then I've got court 17 reporter, 46 -- 48,661. How many people is that? 18 JUDGE ABLES: That's one person. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: One person? 20 JUDGE ABLES: All of these are your portion, I 21 assume, of four counties. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, that's kind of -- our 23 portion of one person is $48,000? 24 MR. TOMLINSON: That's right. 25 JUDGE ABLES: Right, of the court reporter. 7-19-06 bwk 35 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 2 JUDGE ABLES: Yeah. Court reporter makes -- she's 3 got a statute that sets the raises she's getting for 18 years. 4 I think she's gone from, like, 76 through the 18 years up to 5 close to 100,000. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Are these people who are on 7 our payroll, or are they contractors? 8 JUDGE ABLES: They're on the payroll. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Receptionist salary. Is 10 that one person? 11 JUDGE ABLES: Yes. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is the court -- excuse me, 13 the coordinator's position, that's supplemented by the state, 14 is it not? 15 JUDGE ABLES: Becky gets a supplement because I'm 16 the administrative judge for west Texas, and if I were to lose 17 that position, she would not get that supplement. But she 18 gets a supplement because of that. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The two court coordinators' 20 compensation is -- is much larger than the District Clerk's 21 compensation, and without being real familiar with the duties, 22 it would appear that there might be some redundancy, that they 23 do more or less the same kind of things. Can you -- can you 24 help me with that? 25 JUDGE ABLES: I don't think Linda and Becky do any 7-19-06 bwk 36 1 -- any overlap. I don't think there's anything they do that 2 the other one does. Becky's pretty much scheduling court for 3 -- well, she actually schedules court for eight counties out 4 of this office here. And it is nonstop, constant talking to 5 attorneys and scheduling matters and doing all the clerical 6 work pretty much for Karl and I. But I'm not sure there's 7 that much Linda does that Becky does, and much that Becky does 8 that Linda does. 9 MS. UECKER: No, that's right. We're mainly the -- 10 the records clerk of the court and do the issuing, and -- and 11 they do the scheduling. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, they're -- the 13 organization configuration is not unique. If we looked at 14 other district courts in east Texas counties, we'd see 15 something similar to that? 16 JUDGE ABLES: You're going to see some counties that 17 will have a -- a deputy clerk that comes in and kind of 18 coordinates. San Antonio's got kind of a weird system where 19 they've -- the person doesn't really act as a clerk, but yet 20 they're under the clerk's budget, and they really work for the 21 court. But they're still in the District Clerk's office, and 22 -- but by and large, most of the courts have the coordinator, 23 which is created by statute. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where do you see us going on 25 court-appointed attorneys? Is it more -- I mean, this year 7-19-06 bwk 37 1 has been a horrible year. We're budgeting a bunch more for 2 next year. I guess that last year was a good year, so we got 3 a little excited that we weren't going to spend so much. Is 4 this going to be an ongoing issue? More and more money going 5 into that line item because of indigent defense? 6 JUDGE ABLES: It's never gone -- in the 18 years 7 I've been doing this, it's never gone down. The criminal 8 docket here has grown significantly every year in felony 9 cases, and there's one in a thousand where they can qualify to 10 represent themselves. And nearly everybody is unable to 11 afford an attorney, but they -- I'll make them go out and get 12 quotes and talk to attorneys, but they don't have the 13 wherewithal to pay for an attorney, and if I don't appoint an 14 attorney for them, it's going to be reversed and come back, 15 and we're going to try it again. Now, we -- Rusty and I, 16 we've had workshops and talked about the fact that the quicker 17 you turn cases, the less time an attorney can put into a file. 18 If you can -- if you can push it really quick, it may be you 19 can cut down on fees. But, you know, I say this with -- I'm a 20 lawyer, and I love lawyers, but lawyers can procrastinate. 21 Sometimes, you know, they will wait until the very last 22 second, and they really haven't put the time into it if the 23 case is really going to be going to trial anyway. And so I'm 24 not sure if it helps that much to say that we try them 25 quickly, 'cause they're going to gear up and bill 10 hours, 7-19-06 bwk 38 1 and they got to go work tomorrow. If it's next month, they 2 might work an hour and wait and get their 10 hours in a month 3 from now. So, I'm not sure. Now, the quicker we move cases, 4 the more fines we can assess. It's possible that we, you 5 know, will get that. We make -- everybody that's 6 court-appointed who gets probation is supposed to pay it back 7 as part of their payment plan. But it's difficult to send 8 people to the penitentiary for nonpayment if they have an 9 inability to pay. It's difficult to send them off, and we 10 might have to keep them here on a work program, which costs 11 the County more money, and you use -- it's a horrible cycle, 12 in answer to your question. It's grim about that, that cost 13 of court-appointed attorneys. I don't think there's a really 14 good solution for it. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And there's not much -- I mean, 16 other than probation, we can't go back to try to collect this 17 money? 18 JUDGE ABLES: That's about it. We did -- we thought 19 we could go back and collect from them when they're on parole, 20 and we recently got an opinion that said that we can't do 21 that, and so that's making it more difficult. There's -- we 22 kicked around having a -- a public defender's office. When 23 you get to a certain population, sometimes you can do that. I 24 don't think we're quite there yet, but it always -- we need to 25 constantly kind of keep that in the back of our mind, that we 7-19-06 bwk 39 1 might go to a public defender's office. But you have to staff 2 that with a lot of people, because you'll get conflicts, and 3 they need to represent -- you know, they might have 300 people 4 they're representing, and so all of a sudden, you get four 5 people. Well, Bruce just told you what it costs to get one. 6 Boom, we're past that $160,000 like that with a public 7 defender's office. So, we'll look at it, but that may not be 8 your answer either. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 10 JUDGE ABLES: Wish I had a better answer for you, 11 Jonathan. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Judge, back to the salaries 13 again. 14 JUDGE ABLES: Yeah. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: In both 216th and 198th, 16 court coordinator's salary is increasing by 10 and a half 17 percent. Is -- is the employee getting the 10 and a half 18 percent increase, or is Kerr County's share of that budget 19 going up disproportionately? 20 JUDGE ABLES: I thought we had just built in 4.2 for 21 everybody. 22 MR. TOMLINSON: I think it's pretty -- are you sure 23 of your amounts? 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes. 25 MR. TOMLINSON: My calculation was around 5 percent. 7-19-06 bwk 40 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: My math's bad, I'm sorry. 2 JUDGE ABLES: Going from 46,3 to 48,6, it would be 3 around 5 percent, I think. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I wasn't very good in math 5 when we were at Baylor either, Tommy. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the first mistake I've 7 seen you make this year. Mark it down. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thank you, sir. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just want to make a 11 comment. Steve, I admire you for all the things you do in our 12 community. 13 JUDGE ABLES: Thanks. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But my favorite thing that 15 you do, you're the voice of Antler Stadium. Tivy fight never 16 dies. 17 JUDGE ABLES: Hey, I talked to the coaches the other 18 day, and they say we're going to sneak up with some people 19 this year. We've got some good kids. This is going to be a 20 good year. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Whew, I'm excited. 22 JUDGE ABLES: Hey, thanks for your support. 23 Appreciate it. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Judge. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Information Technology. 7-19-06 bwk 41 1 That's under -- 2 MR. TROLINGER: I have a single page for each of 3 you, please. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What tab? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Four, I believe. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Four? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 8 (Discussion off the record.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: You want to talk about your base 10 budget first, John? 11 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 13 MR. TROLINGER: What I'm seeing on base budget, the 14 only deviation that I -- that I received from you, Judge, was 15 the contract services at 10-408-553. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That's why I've got a question mark 17 on that, John. And I -- 18 MR. TROLINGER: The reason for -- 19 JUDGE TINLEY: -- see where you're coming from. 20 MR. TROLINGER: The reason for no expenditures this 21 year is community service workers. We've had a very talented 22 one, actually, that did quite a bit of the technical work for 23 us. I'd expected to hire it out, to have Gazelle PC or 24 somebody like that in here. There may be some expenditure 25 from that contract services this year, but I'm not 7-19-06 bwk 42 1 anticipating that right now, but next year, there will be 2 situations where I don't have that resource. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: You won't get that lucky? 4 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, just get Rex to file a 6 new something against the guy and keep him -- keep him on. 7 MS. UECKER: There you go. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think that's wise, to 9 realize that those kind of people are not around all the time. 10 Is he still with you, or -- is this person still with you? 11 MR. TROLINGER: We have him 20 more hours. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: You're going to be chewing that up 13 before the end of this budget year. 14 MR. TROLINGER: I'm hoping to have him on-site any 15 week now. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good deal. 17 MR. TROLINGER: But, yes, I anticipate the community 18 service hours, he'll be at zero hours by the end of this 19 budget year on the existing -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Now, you've made some 21 recommendations, too, with regard to some capital outlay 22 items, things of that nature, for various departments, and 23 that's been plugged into a lot of budgets. We just heard 24 about the Tax Assessor's 40 -- 25 MS. RECTOR: 4,606, I think, is what John had 7-19-06 bwk 43 1 recommended. That was a bar code scanner, a new computer, 2 backup tapes. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. And this list that you've 4 just furnished to us is a composite -- a current composite of 5 what those recommendations are over in the right-hand column? 6 MR. TROLINGER: Actually, this is -- this list that 7 I just provided is the software maintenance budget that we pay 8 Tyler Technologies each year. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 10 MR. TROLINGER: I'm looking to consolidate that as 11 probably the largest piece of my budget this year. That's the 12 largest effort that I'm making this year on the budget, hoping 13 to get some efficiency and reduce the cost. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, let me catch up here. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, his -- the things that he 17 is recommending for each department are built into the 18 department's budget, just like Paula's issue a few minutes 19 ago. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the way that most of them were 21 submitted to me. Now, I'm not sure whether he has a different 22 approach that he's thinking about taking. I know he's 23 mentioned it previously about consolidating it all under the 24 I.T. budget. 25 MR. TROLINGER: I would like to see it move that 7-19-06 bwk 44 1 way. If I had help, if I had somebody that could do more 2 clerical work, something along that lines, I could definitely 3 consider that. If, for instance, you had a -- you know, an 4 H.R. clerical person that -- that might be able to pitch in 5 on -- on something like that with your new H.R. department. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You'd prefer to do what? 7 MR. TROLINGER: To consolidate the line items for 8 capital outlay, which is typically where the computers and 9 hardware come from for computer -- and operating equipment is 10 another line item, and in some cases, possibly the telephone, 11 to consolidate that. And what it would allow you to do is see 12 everything county-wide on one budget. Right now, it's spread 13 across the board, and it's very difficult to -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Pull it out of all the 15 departments, all the computer and related equipment and 16 telephone? 17 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Out of each department, and 19 put it in the I.T. budget? 20 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. What's the problem with 21 that? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, wouldn't that make Tommy's 23 life easier? Doesn't he take one phone bill and split it all 24 out manually? 25 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, I look at it as a philosophy 7-19-06 bwk 45 1 issue. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: A what? 3 MR. TOMLINSON: A philosophy issue. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How are we supposed to do this? 6 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, how do you want to track the 7 cost for functions? In other words, do you want to know -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, yeah. 9 MR. TOMLINSON: -- what it costs to run Linda 10 Uecker's department totally, all-inclusive? Or do you want to 11 pay part of her costs out and put on it Rex? So that's why I 12 say I don't care. It's what the Court wants to get out of the 13 accounting system. That's my point. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I can -- historically, 15 the Commissioners Court has tried to watch everything Linda 16 Uecker has done through the budget, the line items. We want 17 to know where every penny's gone and every telephone system, 18 but I think that we probably need to get away from that. I 19 think that we need to move -- a philosophy change, paradigm 20 shift. Move everything under one, and don't worry about what 21 Linda does. That's what I think government needs to move to. 22 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't have an objection -- well, I 23 have one objection. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, he wants to fight. Okay. 25 MR. TOMLINSON: And -- and it's a reporting issue. 7-19-06 bwk 46 1 But the Governmental Accounting Standards Board says that -- 2 that you report your operations on a functional basis. In 3 other words, they want -- from a reporting standpoint, they 4 want to see how much the public safety costs. And when you 5 look at our audit report, you'll see that -- that those 6 functions are segregated. And so -- so you report to the 7 public or to an investor what -- what each function costs when 8 you match against that function the revenues that are 9 collected for it. So, if you -- if you take part of the costs 10 of the function out, then -- then you're not reporting 11 all-inclusive costs for a function. That's -- I mean, that's 12 my objection. I don't -- I don't -- it may not be material, 13 but -- but it is -- I think it is an issue. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is it -- I mean, the benefit to 15 doing what John's recommending is that you get economy of 16 scale. If we got one phone system contract, we get one 17 contract for all these services, and it also saves a lot of 18 time from each of these other -- we have one person doing it 19 one time, as opposed to every department negotiating their own 20 contracts all year long, so it should add some efficiency to 21 each of the departments. Could your issue still not be 22 addressed by just figuring out a -- let the Court figure out a 23 formula to break out that total budget back to the departments 24 from an accounting standpoint? I mean, it's just a matter of 25 figuring out, you know, okay, Linda Uecker's is 2 percent of 7-19-06 bwk 47 1 the total phone budget. 2 MR. TOMLINSON: That's sort of what we do already. 3 I mean, we -- we do that to some degree now. The exact amount 4 may not be there, but we -- we allocate costs based on -- 5 mainly on the budget. How much -- in other words, how much do 6 we budget for telephone? We take -- take the total of the 7 telephone budget, and we apply that to a spreadsheet that says 8 my office is 2 percent of the total budget or the total cost, 9 and we just apply that to my cost. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, we can do it in reverse 11 order. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: We're doing that to some degree 13 already. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Aren't we really talking 15 about two different things? 16 MR. TOMLINSON: Not really, no. Well I don't -- 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Your allocation of expenses, 18 I understand that, and I understand your reason to want to do 19 it, and I understand our reason for wanting to see it. But 20 aren't we really talking about him being able to consolidate 21 the acquisition of equipment and contracts and so forth? 22 We're really talking about two separate issues. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, not if we -- not if we put the 24 total cost in his budget. 25 MR. TROLINGER: Right. If the line item came over 7-19-06 bwk 48 1 for capital outlay into the I.T. budget, then it would not 2 reflect the individual departments without some kind of change 3 on the Auditor's part. That's a very good point. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But we could change it. We 5 could put it all in your -- I mean, in your -- we deal with 6 you on it, and then once that number's fixed, it gets spread 7 out by the computer and distributed out among the departments. 8 MR. TOMLINSON: That wouldn't preclude him from -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Doing it all -- 10 MR. TOMLINSON: -- negotiating a price. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- for the whole county. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's kind of my thought. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: The acquisition costs is not the cost 14 of operations. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: If it's a capital item that we're 17 talking about. 18 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, it is, too, because -- because 19 we have to depreciate those assets, and the cost of the 20 depreciation gets charged against every department. So, our 21 system calculates depreciation on every asset every department 22 has, and in the financial statements, that -- that 23 depreciation cost is part of their -- part of our operating 24 costs. 25 MR. TROLINGER: So, it makes a lot of sense, what 7-19-06 bwk 49 1 Tommy's saying, and that was really going a step beyond to try 2 to take those line items. What I wanted to emphasize was that 3 the software maintenance budget is large; it's spread out 4 across the entire county. I wanted to give you one snapshot 5 picture of it. And I'd like to, as we go through the budget 6 workshops, talk about consolidating and making changes to 7 those. I found some places that we need to reduce and some 8 places that need to increase. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: On this list you gave us? 10 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. That's the one big 11 number. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What is this particular 13 list? 14 MR. TROLINGER: What we pay for software 15 maintenance. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Software maintenance? 17 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's operating costs, not 19 hardware? 20 MR. TROLINGER: Correct. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Why is the Appraisal 22 District on there? 23 MR. TROLINGER: There -- they're listed because I 24 receive that from Software Group, and I wanted to show you the 25 entire county's outlay to Software Group. 7-19-06 bwk 50 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We're not paying it? 2 MR. TROLINGER: Each -- as it is right now, each of 3 these items where you see Central Appraisal District, County 4 Attorney's office, County Treasurer, et cetera, those are in 5 each of those budgets. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Right. I'm with you. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, what you're saying here is 8 that if we can consolidate -- do your recommendations, we'll 9 save about 4,000 a quarter? I mean, you're going from 32,000 10 a quarter to 28,700 a quarter. 11 MR. TROLINGER: My initial -- my initial take on it, 12 yes. I'm sure we'll get some input from the Sheriff on this 13 also. There are some -- there's some issues there. And also, 14 I'd like to bring to your attention, we've paid this software 15 maintenance each and every year since -- as the system grew, 16 the maintenance costs grew. And what I'm seeing right now 17 with Odyssey is that the support required, where we have to 18 receive support for some of these products from Software 19 Group, is not necessarily required any longer, because Odyssey 20 allows the individual users to do much more of the maintenance 21 level tasks that Software used to do on the old system. So, 22 I'm looking at -- not only is this -- this is the projection 23 for 2007, but even more of these items may drop off. And, 24 conversely, some may -- some may reappear as some changes take 25 place at the Sheriff's Office with my -- I call him my right 7-19-06 bwk 51 1 arm, the training officer there. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Looking at the line on Kerr 3 County Treasurer, fifth one down, it says B.M.-slash-payroll. 4 What's B.M.? 5 MR. TROLINGER: Bank Manager is the name of the 6 product center. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Base Manager? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Bank. 9 MR. TROLINGER: Bank. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Bank Manager. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: How does computer-aided 12 dispatch work? What does that do? 13 MR. TROLINGER: Maybe the Sheriff could -- could go 14 into that, 'cause it's brand-new, and something that he asked 15 for right away, probably the first week after I started. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Real quick scenario, it cuts 17 down the time more than half to actually enter a call into the 18 computer system. It all draws automatically from other 19 databases, and once we get a call from one address, that 20 address is in the system. If we get another call from that 21 address, you click a button, it programs it in. You update 22 it, and it's just a -- a time-saving -- plus the information 23 it keeps and the reports we can run are ten times better than 24 what we've ever been able to. We're one of the few agencies 25 that didn't have it. 7-19-06 bwk 52 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And the source of -- of 2 these reports, the calls can be from Kerrville Police 3 Department dispatch transferring them to you, or direct to 4 you? 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. Okay, the other thing it 6 has done is, it keeps a radio log itself. For all the years 7 up until we installed this, the radio log is handwritten out. 8 Every radio dispatch is handwritten out by the dispatchers in 9 the center, and this is taking place. We have no more 10 handwritten logs; it's all computer-printed logs, so that's -- 11 it's something that should have been done ten years ago. I 12 just didn't -- 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Does Kerrville Police 14 Department use a similar -- 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't know what company they 16 have, okay? This came with this to work with Odyssey, and it 17 draws information out of Odyssey and puts it in. And, 18 actually, we got it at no initial cost, because we are a test 19 site for them, okay? Because it is a new one, so the cost -- 20 there wasn't any initial cost in doing it. I don't know what 21 company they have, but they do have computer-aided dispatch. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What do we do about 23 consolidating, like -- I mean, I'd personally like to see how 24 much the County is spending on computer maintenance on one 25 sheet, rather than trying to add them up. I think we get a 7-19-06 bwk 53 1 much better handle. And, to me, it's -- I like a consolidated 2 version, and then it can be -- once the budget's finalized, it 3 can be attributed to each department on a monthly basis. And 4 I think, Tommy -- correct? It needs to be tracked by 5 department. But during the budget process, this is the number 6 that I'd rather see. It's somewhat meaningless to me to look 7 at each department individually. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Bottom line number. 9 MR. TROLINGER: I think it's a good first step. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think that probably 11 phones, software maintenance, things that are easy to do. I 12 mean, some of the things like copier maintenance maybe down 13 the road will make sense, but right now we have so many 14 different types of copier contracts and companies, I think 15 that would be a nightmare to try to consolidate that right 16 now. But down the road, that may be something -- another 17 area. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Trolinger, do you think that if 19 you have general oversight of computer equipment acquisition, 20 computer service, software acquisition, contracting 21 system-wide for those things, that it'll help you bring the 22 overall costs down? 23 MR. TROLINGER: Yes. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Vis-a-vis each different department 25 doing it on their own? 7-19-06 bwk 54 1 MR. TROLINGER: Inevitably. But it's been handled 2 by each department over the years, and it's -- it's really 3 down to a science. They know they've got an old computer that 4 needs to be replaced, and -- versus where each department was 5 bringing you that request. What I'm doing for you is just 6 showing you all in one place what's going on, and the software 7 maintenance being the largest. I'm not trying to necessarily 8 take over the operation, but to present it. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I understand that. But if you've got 10 the overall view of things -- and, for example, on the 11 telephone service and computer equipment and things like that, 12 with your knowledge of those subjects, and then once those 13 things are put in place, they can be charged to the particular 14 departments; the service, the equipment, whatever it may be. 15 MR. TROLINGER: Makes good sense to do it that way. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd like to go back, Judge, 17 to the -- to the communications side of this equation. 18 Telephone. Where are we in terms of our existing system, by 19 your best estimation? 20 MR. TROLINGER: The courthouse phone system is 21 becoming a duct tape and baling wire situation. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're finally getting there, 24 John. We're finally getting to where we're supposed to be. 25 MR. TROLINGER: Curtis from Valor -- is it 7-19-06 bwk 55 1 Windstream? I think they changed names. K.T.C. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, this week. We don't 3 know what they'll be next week. 4 MR. TROLINGER: Curtis has started a survey to 5 evaluate here, and they've already looked at the Sheriff's 6 system at his request, to evaluate what we need to do. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Would it be -- would it be 8 ultimately your recommendation, if there's to be a system 9 change -- telephone upgrade, that we finally evolve to one 10 system for Kerr County, instead of multiple systems? 11 MR. TROLINGER: Last year I would have said yes, but 12 after learning about the functions at the Sheriff's Office, I 13 see it's less likely because of the emergency nature of -- the 14 24/7 nature of those phone lines. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What about the Road and 16 Bridge component? 17 MR. TROLINGER: It's coming close. We've talked 18 about it. Probably not this year; maybe the year after. I 19 think they just signed another lease, or some type of 20 maintenance agreement. You did not? 21 MS. HARDIN: Up in October. 22 MR. TROLINGER: It's up in October, actually. So, 23 it is coming up this year. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How about the -- and that's one 25 of the things that K.T.C. was going to look at -- I was going 7-19-06 bwk 56 1 to have them look at, was Road and Bridge's, and evaluate 2 their system. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that something we're 4 going to get back here pretty soon from K.T.C.? A proposal 5 during the budget preparation? 6 MR. ODOM: Who are you talking to? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Anybody that wants to answer 8 the question. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. First off, let me answer 10 some of that. I brought it to this Court several months ago 11 about problems I had with the Sheriff's Office. Okay. The 12 Court asked Curtis -- he was here -- to figure up a 13 county-wide plan for purchasing only, 'cause there's so many 14 different options. We brought it back another time. The 15 Court asked Curtis to do it another way. Okay. I've been 16 waiting for that other way. We talked Curtis this morning. 17 He said since they keep changing the way they're doing it, or 18 want proposals, they didn't do it. I had a 25-minute period 19 this morning, between 8:00 and -- well, actually probably 20 closer to 10:00 to -- yeah, 9:30 -- a 25-minute period we 21 could not get incoming calls or make outgoing calls, 'cause 22 all our lines were tied up. It's back on your agenda again 23 next Monday to try and solve the Sheriff's Office problem. 24 I've got a serious problem. We've waited and waited for the 25 proposals. And that's why, if you look at that, you'll see a 7-19-06 bwk 57 1 lot of those proposals. But I don't think they furnished the 2 one that the Court asked for, a county-wide. And I put it 3 back on as my original proposal, 'cause I just can't wait any 4 longer. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What was the reason that they 6 didn't come back with it? 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They said they got too many 8 different ways that the Court wants to have them keep 9 refiguring it and redoing it, and they just lost it, what they 10 need to be doing. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, they don't want our 12 business? 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, I don't think that's it. 14 Don't take it wrong. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what it sounds like. 16 What else could it mean? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's what it means to me. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: They don't want to work for it. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think they're just having 20 problems on a very direct -- and maybe that's where Trolinger 21 could help. I think they're having problems on a very direct, 22 one line of communication, "This is exactly what we want." 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Rusty, what -- 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Because there are several 25 different options in that. 7-19-06 bwk 58 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What is -- what is our 2 option? What is -- see, this is a question for you. What is 3 our option, Mr. Department Head? 4 MR. TROLINGER: The option at the Sheriff's Office, 5 or for the system-wide? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: For the Sheriff's Office. 7 MR. TROLINGER: For the Sheriff's Office -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's pretend that K.T.C. 9 doesn't want our business, which is what it sounds like to me. 10 What would we do? 11 MR. TROLINGER: We'd go to the local vendor in town. 12 T.N.T. is one of them that I can think of. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a septic company. 14 MR. TROLINGER: I think it's -- I think their 15 slogan's, "From your rear to your ear." They do telephone 16 also. (Laughter.) 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh. 18 MR. TROLINGER: Anyway, that's former K.T.C. -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sounds like our company, to 20 me. 21 MR. TROLINGER: And I'd have them come out and take 22 a look and evaluate the Sheriff's system again, because the 23 proposal from -- you know, from K.T.C. may be -- may be fine. 24 It's a Nortel phone switch, and just about any vendor in the 25 state -- 7-19-06 bwk 59 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, they haven't come back 2 to do what we asked them to do. Sounds like they're not 3 planning on doing that. I think you need to find out 4 something from somebody. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The Sheriff's office he's 6 saying is different. The proposal I'm putting back on the 7 agenda -- or is back on the agenda is the same as the very 8 first proposal that I brought when we started having a 9 problem. It's either the five-year lease-purchase or the 10 five-year buy-out and gradually replace existing equipment 11 with the new updated equipment as it comes. And I honestly 12 believe that the five-year lease deal is the better way. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What caused your 30-minute 14 period -- what was tying up the lines? 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Too many calls coming in, too 16 many going out. All our lines were used. I got to have the 17 capability of adding more lines. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Talking about consolidating 19 things, see, this -- this is the kind of thing that the I.T. 20 guy ought to be dealing with. He ought to be in here making a 21 recommendation and saying, "The Sheriff's Department is not 22 functioning; we got to do this." 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I guess what -- I'm going 24 back to him. Maybe I'm overly simplistic. Couldn't you have 25 solved that -- incoming, obviously, you have to have the 7-19-06 bwk 60 1 capacity. Outgoing, y'all have cell phones, or a bunch of you 2 have cell phones. Why don't you start switching to cell 3 phones? Start relieving some of the workload. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There's a lot of different 5 things in there, okay? One is, I have the capability of 6 recording calls on hard line. All right? A lot of our stuff 7 is recorded. Number two is, I have 31 cell phones, all right? 8 I'm very strict on limiting the number of minutes. You have a 9 cell phone contract in there too that will be on the next 10 agenda that will alleviate that. My minutes, if I go over the 11 number of minutes per month, okay -- all my 31 are one group. 12 If you go over that number of minutes, we start paying a whole 13 lot more than the other. Now, a lot of them did. I went 14 around this morning and told people they had to get off the 15 phone, okay? It -- it's not 9-1-1 phone. Don't get me wrong. 16 It's -- if a call comes in on 9-1-1, that gets transferred on 17 the dedicated line that's just for that, but any of our other 18 business and any other calls that people don't call directly 19 on 9-1-1, our system -- we added six phone lines to it several 20 years ago, y'all did, when we upgraded it last time or did the 21 last contract renewal. And over the years -- you heard it, 22 just like what you're hearing from the -- from the D.A. and 23 the Judge, you know. We're exploding, okay? The call ratios 24 are drastic. Everything in this county is going up 25 drastically because of this. 7-19-06 bwk 61 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess what I'm saying, I just 2 -- what I see happening locally and in my own business is that 3 they're switching more and more to cell phone. Hard lines are 4 expensive, and -- you know, well, the cost of them. They're 5 inconvenient. Cell phones on a package -- I don't know how 6 many minutes you have. Cell phones are dirt cheap compared to 7 what I pay for a hard line or business line. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: My hard line bill okay, on what 9 it runs a month, okay, is just about equal to my cell phone 10 bill. You're not talking $50 difference right now in this 11 proposal that I'm giving you and in the cell phone proposal. 12 It's just we're at a situation where I've got to get something 13 taken care of. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're a little bit unique, 15 'cause you do have to have recording capability and some other 16 stuff. But, I mean, going more to the courthouse, you know, I 17 don't know what our status is at the courthouse phone system, 18 but Commissioners, I think you could go with two phone lines 19 in here. I mean -- and, I mean, 'cause I rarely use mine. I 20 use my cell phone almost entirely. 21 MR. TROLINGER: Well, the courthouse is limited by 22 handsets, not by the number of ingoing and outgoing lines 23 right now. Unless someone can contradict me, we're not 24 saturated on that. What we are saturated on are the number of 25 handsets available, and we have none available right now. So, 7-19-06 bwk 62 1 if somebody wants to have a phone in the Commissioners Court 2 today, someone else would have to give one up. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But in terms of the Sheriff, 4 you need more trunk capacity coming in. 5 MR. TROLINGER: The Sheriff's Office needs more 6 lines, and their phone switch is not capable of expanding. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: But the good news is, it doesn't 9 affect 9-1-1 emergency calls. Those come straight there 10 through -- 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Does not affect if they dial 12 9-1-1. You have to remember, only about half our calls -- 13 actually, now half the emergency calls come in on 9-1-1. A 14 lot of people in Center Point -- Center Point has a direct 15 line to us. A lot of people there call direct; they don't 16 call 9-1-1. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let's, for a second, go from 18 land lines to cell phones. The Sheriff is undertaking a study 19 on his own cell phone use. I assume that's the number of 20 phones in play and number of minutes used per month or 21 whatever. What would it take from your perspective, 22 Mr. Trolinger, to do the same thing on the cell phone 23 utilization for everyone else in the county system? 24 MR. TROLINGER: To pull all the other departments' 25 cell phone numbers? There's not -- I don't believe -- 7-19-06 bwk 63 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Everyone else that we pay 2 for. 3 MR. TROLINGER: It's under Telephone, so it's very 4 difficult to break out. But it would be possible, using the 5 Sheriff's negotiation skill, to -- to use Five Star 6 county-wide, or perhaps bid it out. To say, here -- here's 7 what the County wants, and what price can you provide that at? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that's where I'm 9 coming from. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. What's our total -- what's our 11 total expenditure in the Sheriff's Department, for example, on 12 an annual basis? 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Cell phones? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Cell phones. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Cell phones, my current bill 16 is -- unless we go over the minutes, and we very seldom do, 17 because they can all tell you, I'm pretty tight on that. 18 Right this minute -- and I hope to change Monday -- our cell 19 phone bill is $648.45 a month for cell phone. That's for 31 20 cell phones, okay? Which really isn't that bad. The new 21 contract which I want to enact immediately, all right, will 22 expand our service. What it does is, under -- and this isn't 23 necessarily a negotiation skill; this is a new business cell 24 phone feature that Kerrville Phone Company -- Five Star 25 Wireless has gone to, okay? It is 5,000 national minutes for 7-19-06 bwk 64 1 199 a month for the first phone. Additional minutes would be 2 the 0.25, if you had to pay it. Each additional phone is 9.95 3 and an additional 3,000 national night and weekend minutes, 4 Monday through Friday and all weekend, being all day Saturday 5 and Sunday are free, all this kind of stuff. What it amounts 6 to is, the current -- currently, the Sheriff's Department has 7 31 wireless phone numbers, 4,000 daytime minutes with 3,000 8 night and weekend minutes, with a reoccurring monthly charge 9 of $648.45. The current plan does not include nationwide long 10 distance, nationwide mobile-to-mobile, or nationwide night and 11 weekend minutes. The new plan that they're proposing, for 31 12 cell phone numbers, will be $498.49 a month, and includes all 13 long distance, mobile-to-mobile calling, and no roaming 14 charges throughout the U.S. We had -- they also offer 15 unlimited text messaging, if you want it, at $1.95. I don't 16 do text messaging. It just doesn't -- and it will also 17 replace all of our cell phones with the current Nokia updated 18 cell phones to where we replaced all our old ones at 490. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: New picture phone? 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, it'll be just updated on 21 these, okay? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's a good deal. That's very 23 reasonable. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They're Five Star, right? 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's Five Star. And the 7-19-06 bwk 65 1 reason I won't go to Sprint or look at them as of this moment, 2 okay, the same problem we've always had with Sprint and any of 3 the other ones, they still don't have enough towers in this 4 county, because of our terrain and everything else we have, to 5 give me the coverage in this county that Five Star gives us. 6 And I need the coverage in this county on cell phones, and 7 that's what is on the agenda for Monday. But, yeah, and 8 that's not a special deal; that's a business account. If the 9 County wanted to go with another business account with all the 10 other phones and work up something, they'd probably get that 11 too. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's 31 hard lines cost? 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's a rotating system. I 14 don't know. I'm paying -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What do you mean, it's on the 16 agenda Monday? What does that mean? 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Y'all have Commissioners Court 18 Monday -- or next Monday? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We have it Monday. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Going to ask us to approve 21 a new contract? 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Going to ask you to approve a 23 new contract on this regular -- 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Approve it on Monday? 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 7-19-06 bwk 66 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's not a budget issue? 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, this is because ours is up. 3 This drops it already. It will already save me for the rest 4 of this budget year, and I've got to do something with all 5 that. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Less money? 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Less money. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: To wind this down, I'd like 9 to see people pull together all the rest of them, see where 10 that takes us. 11 MR. TROLINGER: It's a simple directive that says 12 everyone has to purchase new cell phones from Five Star to 13 make that -- you know, benefit from what the Sheriff's doing, 14 in my opinion. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You can keep your number. 16 There's not an issue about keeping your number any more. 17 MR. TROLINGER: That's correct. The issue of cell 18 phones replacing hand sets is just like the issue of 19 voice-over IP. Once you get into certain places inside a 20 building, it's just not there. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, what we need to do is 22 make a court order to tell everybody to use Five Star; is that 23 right? 24 MR. ODOM: We use Five Star. 25 MS. HARDIN: Yeah, but we're out not on the same 7-19-06 bwk 67 1 contract. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Is that a yes or no? 3 MR. TROLINGER: I don't know. Tommy, what do you 4 think the -- contract-wise, that would entail? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, you can get penalties if 6 you break a contract, a lot of them. 7 MR. TOMLINSON: That's right. It depends on the 8 individual contract, I think. Because -- 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, you need a court order 10 that says -- 11 MR. TOMLINSON: If you have a two-year contract with 12 six months into it, you have to -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Pick them up as they expire. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Need a court order that 15 says when your contract expires, if you're not on Five Star, 16 switch to it. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And under this plan. 18 MR. TROLINGER: That sounds reasonable. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Got to switch under a county 20 plan. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What would your role be in 22 that? 23 MR. TROLINGER: I'm just giving you the big picture, 24 just making the recommendation on the service provider, not 25 trying to -- 7-19-06 bwk 68 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Say my contract expires, I 2 want to switch to Five Star. Do you have a role in it? Or -- 3 MR. TROLINGER: No, sir. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I do that myself? 5 MR. TROLINGER: Yes. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that's -- if the County 8 wants to do that, I think you need to get John set up with 9 Five Star and have an account set up; people talk to John 10 about someone -- adding them to it. I don't think we want 11 everyone -- we'll be under the same thing we're on right now, 12 just all different contracts. We need to be under one county 13 contract. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I would recommend that you keep 15 the Sheriff's Office contract as one and the rest of the 16 county as one. The reason is for the minutes. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Is your agenda item worded 18 that we can take action on that on Monday? 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: On my contract, yes. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On his contract. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Rusty, you heard John say a 22 little earlier that you were somewhat unique. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, I think y'all have all 24 told me I've been unique, so -- 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, are you talking about 7-19-06 bwk 69 1 -- would you recommend we have two separate contracts? One 2 for -- 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: County-wide yes. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why? 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Because all of these y'all are 6 going to -- unless you go to a very large one with an 7 unlimited number of minutes, all of them are going to have a 8 number of minutes tied to them, okay? What you have 9 happening -- I do it inside my own department to my own 10 people. I look at the individual cell phone bill. I look at 11 who's using the most minutes, and then I go have a 12 conversation with whoever's using the most minutes. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can't you get a bill -- 14 can't you get a bill from Five Star that breaks it down by 15 number? 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But I don't want to get into -- 17 I think the end price of the contracts aren't going to be any 18 different, okay? It's a business contract that they are now 19 offering. I think Kerr County Courthouse, and if Road and 20 Bridge wants to do it or whatever, can have one contract. I 21 think you need to leave the Sheriff's Office contract separate 22 because of the number of minutes we use. I don't want to get 23 into a squabble later that somebody says, "Well, Sheriff's 24 Office is using too many minutes." 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. Who's going to put 7-19-06 bwk 70 1 the switch to Five Star strategy on the Commissioners Court 2 agenda? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: John. I think John's going to 4 talk to Five Star and find out if we can get even a lower cost 5 than that if we're going county-wide on unlimited minutes. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah, there you go. 7 MR. TROLINGER: The Sheriff's an awfully good 8 negotiator, plus he does have a gun. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Going to -- 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: All we need y'all to do is make 11 sure that -- and the easiest way to do this is I need a solid 12 number on the number of cell phones that are owned by the 13 County that they use for courthouse and Road and Bridge, get a 14 solid -- 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's step one. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- number, no matter how many 17 minutes they normally end up getting per month, and we can do 18 a contract -- or negotiate a contract real quick. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: John, you'd be a good 20 negotiator too if you had a pistol on your hip. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't wear it much. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Get you an automatic weapon. That 23 might work better for you, John. 24 MR. TROLINGER: There are only a couple of 25 departments I wanted to summarize, if I may, please. The -- 7-19-06 bwk 71 1 the County Clerk's office and the District Clerk's office are 2 making a move to -- to take their archive records from 3 paper -- or, excuse me, from microfilm or microfiche to 4 scanned digital images. And what you see on the District 5 Clerk's budget recommendation reflects a software license and 6 some scanning from a company called -- well, they're saying 7 DM2000. I think the County Clerk -- 8 MS. UECKER: CASO now. 9 MR. TROLINGER: CASO now. And I can see the records 10 going that way. It's -- I think it's worked out really well, 11 the demonstration where the -- or the installation that took 12 place this year, and moving the microfilm and microfiche 13 records to -- to electronic storage with CASO. I think you're 14 going to -- I think you're going to see a little bit of 15 activity there with the County Clerk also. I need to go speak 16 with her; that may not be in her budget right now. The 17 recommendation -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can it all be accessed over the 19 internet? 20 MR. TROLINGER: It could be, yes, and that's where 21 I'm moving towards -- towards the -- for instance, the 22 Commissioners Court minutes, it's just the easiest way. The 23 technical rep came up last week and met with me, and in a few 24 minutes he could import and put onto PaperVision the -- the 25 data that I had sitting there electronically. 7-19-06 bwk 72 1 MS. UECKER: We just have to implement the payment 2 part of that. 3 MR. TROLINGER: That's it. 4 MS. UECKER: Don't want to give them away. 5 MR. TROLINGER: That's really not the case with 6 Commissioners Court minutes. There's such a low volume of 7 copies being made, it just -- it's available, because most -- 8 most everyone comes in now and just reads it on the screen, 9 for instance. They don't want hard copies, certified copies. 10 But where we've got court records, you know, there's a cost 11 involved to the clerk's office, and they need to be reimbursed 12 for that. So, there's an online access issue that we're 13 working on right now, but that -- that CASO/DM2000/PaperVision 14 allows for all that inside and outside the courthouse. So -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is it in their budgets for this 16 year? 17 MR. TROLINGER: It is in the budget for the District 18 Clerk. The County Clerk, I need to visit with, because I just 19 got those numbers Friday, so that's missing from my budget 20 recommendation for the County Clerk. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You got anything else? 22 MR. TROLINGER: I had a couple of notes from the 23 Judge on the Commissioners Court budget, but I see that's next 24 on the agenda. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, before we get through 7-19-06 bwk 73 1 with your budget, if the Court -- I want to remind you that if 2 the Court approves a recommendation to establish an H.R. 3 department, you're going to need to equip and license two 4 workstations. 5 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay? 7 MR. TROLINGER: Is that just another -- that's 8 another department, so they'd have their own line items for 9 capital outlay, I assume? That's about -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It should evolve that way. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Be under Commissioners 12 Court, I think. 13 MR. TROLINGER: It's fully equipped with software. 14 It's about -- and a monitor. It's about $975 per computer, 15 plus printers. I don't know what you have in mind for office 16 space or -- 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think we'll be able to -- 18 MR. TROLINGER: -- facilities. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think we'll be able to 20 flesh that out within the next month. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else for Mr. Trolinger? 22 MR. TROLINGER: That will do it. Thank you for all 23 your time. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Why don't we take about a 15-minute 25 recess. 7-19-06 bwk 74 1 (Recess taken from 3:09 p.m. to 3:30 p.m.) 2 - - - - - - - - - - 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order, if we 4 might. We were in recess for a bit. Let's come on up to the 5 Commissioners Court budget. That's going to be under numero 6 dos. I think probably the -- 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Got a picture of the chairs 8 here, Buster. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: One of the major differences you see 10 there is under Professional Services. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's just for us, and 12 us only? Is that for Commissioners Court only? That would be 13 indigent -- 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I see Professional Services 15 under Nondepartmental doesn't show anything, and I think that 16 we may want to -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Talk about that. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: -- put a portion of that -- we've got 19 our insurance consultant contract that comes out of that. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The what? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: The insurance. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Insurance, okay. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: For our health benefits program. 24 That's about 12,5, as I recall. And then we've got our other 25 professional engineering -- 7-19-06 bwk 75 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You've got the engineer. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: -- that's got to come out of that. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, the -- our engineer, if 4 we were going to go out and widen a road and need an engineer 5 to do that, it comes out of this line item here? Or is it in 6 Road and Bridge? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: You have -- you have some engineering 8 under Road and Bridge, you recall, under the Contract 9 Engineering Services that -- that Commissioner Letz was 10 talking with Mr. Wells about. That's going to come under the 11 Road and Bridge. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the only thing, 13 though? So, this is a holding tank for professional services. 14 Federal lawyers. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: If need be, yeah. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And why the increase? That's 17 what you were fixing to talk about. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, if -- we budgeted last year 19 13,000, and that's about what it's going -- that's about what 20 it's going to take for the insurance, so we don't have any 21 excess to deal with. So, that's the main reason that I 22 increased it on up to 20. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm in agreement with you. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: That's probably the main change 25 there. 7-19-06 bwk 76 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where does -- we're doing 2 that work out on Town Creek, and there's engineering involved 3 in all that. Where does that money come from? Is that Road 4 and Bridge? 5 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't know. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Would you step out the door 7 and tell those guys to get in here? We've got county business 8 to take care of. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I found it. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You didn't let them see you 11 smiling, did you? Don't ever smile like that. Kind of grit 12 your teeth. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: The other area that may require some 14 adjustment -- 15 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Commissioner Letz wants me to 16 represent him. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That would be an 18 improvement. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Under Computer Maintenance -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You'd get your computer 21 program changed. I'm sorry. Computer Maintenance? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. The -- what the I.T. Director 23 told us, I don't see anything tied specifically to -- to 24 Commissioners Court on this maintenance schedule, though. It 25 must be -- probably all of that is covered under 7-19-06 bwk 77 1 Nondepartmental. That includes us. I don't know. I don't 2 know how that got allocated. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask this question one 4 more time. Is it better to have that line and that money 5 under Commissioners Court than it would be under the I.T. 6 budget? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I think for the purpose of making the 8 service available and making sure that it's needed and 9 coordinating it with the other software upgrades and services, 10 I think that's properly a function of -- of I.T. oversight. 11 But when it comes to allocating the cost, based on what the 12 Auditor tells us, the cost that's attributable to 13 Commissioners Court should be -- we need to allocate it as 14 part of the cost of that department for accounting purposes. 15 Did I -- is that what I understood from you, Mr. Tomlinson? 16 MR. TOMLINSON: That -- I think so, yes. 17 MR. TROLINGER: I only had one other thought on 18 that, Tommy, and I don't know if it's feasible. But let's say 19 if we added up all the capital outlay for computer equipment 20 and put it into one line item under Information Technology, 21 and then, when the money was spent against that department, so 22 Commissioners Court -- 23 (Loud feedback noise.) 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Francis? That has to be 25 Francis. (Laughter.) 7-19-06 bwk 78 1 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Doesn't that come under Information 2 Technology? 3 MR. TROLINGER: That was "A-A" in Morse code. But 4 would it be feasible to say, okay, now, I've got -- I just 5 bought six computers, but one of them goes to Commissioners 6 Court, and then that money appears in the Commissioners Court 7 line item for capital outlay? Or do I -- do you have to 8 allocate that at beginning of the year? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Look at him hunker down out 10 there. 11 MR. TROLINGER: That was my only thought on that, 12 Judge. 13 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't know. I'd have to look at 14 it. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we do it end of the 16 year. We transfer a lot at end-of-the-year budgets. If it 17 was under one item and moved to where it was spent, I wouldn't 18 -- I mean, that's tracking it at this point. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: Capital Outlay's different, 'cause I 20 have to -- it really doesn't mean as much as other operating 21 expenses, because I eliminate that anyway. I mean, in the -- 22 in the full accrual statements, I have to eliminate all the 23 capital outlay as expenses, 'cause they don't -- under those 24 guidelines, you don't consider capital outlays as expense. It 25 goes into assets, and then you set up depreciation schedules 7-19-06 bwk 79 1 on those assets, and then charge expense. So, the -- the 2 amounts expended for -- for capital outlay doesn't mean as 3 much as -- as another outlay. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 5 MR. TOMLINSON: I mean, I could work with it either 6 way. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I think we need to explore some kind 8 of -- what I'm looking to I.T. for is guidance on those issues 9 for coordinating the types of services, software services that 10 are needed, the type of equipment that's needed, telephone 11 equipment, all that sort of stuff. But when it comes to 12 expensing it, whatever you need from an accounting standpoint. 13 But I want the overall -- the oversight to come out of the 14 I.T. Department, because that's the guy with the knowledge, 15 and he knows what the state of the art, what fits with what 16 and what doesn't fit. That's -- however that meshes, that's 17 what I'm looking for. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Me too. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't have -- I mean, that's okay. 20 At some point, it has -- we got to account for it some way. 21 And if John -- you know, if I.T. wants to come up with a total 22 amount for purchases for equipment, that's fine, just so long 23 as we have a handle on -- on how much of it applies to each 24 department. That's all I need. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tommy, if we had -- if we had 7-19-06 bwk 80 1 everything under the I.T., all this purchase of hardware and 2 software and all those things was built into his budget alone, 3 and he goes and makes a computer purchase for the 4 Commissioners Court, then it's almost double work for -- to 5 pull it out of his -- to make the purchase and then assign it 6 to Commissioners Court. Whereas if it were in Commissioners 7 Court, you'd simply reduce the number. Is that -- am I seeing 8 that right? That it would be more work for you? 9 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, no. As the bill comes in, we 10 could charge it directly to -- to the Court, and when we pay 11 the invoice, we could assign the invoice -- the cost of the 12 invoice to whatever department. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you do that now? 14 MR. TROLINGER: It would be less, because you 15 wouldn't be typing all those numbers in -- line items up 16 front; it would just be one number in I.T., and then as it was 17 spent, it would be transferred. It would be typed into -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I can't see it. It just -- I 19 don't know. I'm with you, though. I think the control needs 20 to be in one place. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the main thing I'm trying -- 22 is general oversight and control in the I.T. Department of all 23 of those pieces of equipment or services. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that's the way to 7-19-06 bwk 81 1 go. 2 MR. TROLINGER: I have been able to -- we spent 3 quite a lot on computer hardware last year. And software, of 4 course. But the -- the desktop computers for the County 5 Clerk's office, for instance, when I went to the -- the vendor 6 and asked for a quote for five computers, I was able to 7 negotiate; you know, give me a couple extra things along with 8 that. So, even though we're dealing with a large company, 9 they're still willing to give us breaks once we start giving 10 them quantity orders, and that's what I was hoping to achieve, 11 is -- is that quantity order. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Makes sense. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: And if your total budget includes, 14 over the course of a year for 18 departments, the purchase of 15 30 computers, even though you're not going to place all those 16 orders at one time, they're going to talk turkey with you a 17 little bit more. 18 MR. TROLINGER: Generally. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Probably. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You probably could place an 21 order at one time, and just set up different delivery dates. 22 MR. TROLINGER: Yes. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: And that gives you a handle on it. 24 And once they come in, you can designate that computer going 25 to this department, the next one to that department. He can 7-19-06 bwk 82 1 pick it up and assign it out. 2 MR. TROLINGER: Correct. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Y'all work on that. Could you do 4 that? 5 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. What else do we have under 7 Commissioners Court? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One item. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Professional Services, Jon, the 10 engineering for Road and Bridge we've got under Road and 11 Bridge budget, right? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's no fee there. It's 13 revenue. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The engineering review. 15 Engineering review. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, but that's not -- we really 17 don't need a budget item for that, because we're receiving -- 18 I mean, the money's coming in. It's going to be in Road and 19 Bridge. I was talking to Truby and Leonard about that. 20 They're going to do it kind of like they do culverts -- which 21 I didn't know they did culverts this way, but they're going to 22 have a quarterly balancing out with Mindy. And they're 23 already working that out, I believe, so that the -- I mean, 24 there's an engineering review fee that the -- we pay the 25 engineer, and the developer pays us. 7-19-06 bwk 83 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So it should stay -- should be 3 at -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's a wash. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- zero. At the end of the 6 year, it should be zero for all of his services. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, there -- is there other 8 kind of engineering done, though? The developers -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not related to subdivision. 10 Now, there could be some county engineering done. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, that's what I'm talking 12 about. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And -- but Leonard usually puts 14 that in his budget. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He puts that in his budget? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's not under 17 Professional Services under the Court? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: One thing that would not be included, 20 we did allocate a separate line item for Survey. Any 21 surveying services would have to be moved up under 22 Professional Services, since we didn't do the item in 23 Commissioners Court budget. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But Leonard -- actually, on 25 that, he's usually covered the survey costs. We don't do that 7-19-06 bwk 84 1 much of that, but he's been able to -- what we have done in my 2 precinct, he's handled that out of his regular budget, and out 3 at Hermann Sons, there's been -- I don't know who gets those 4 bills. Someone -- we've had Lee Voelkel out there several 5 times trying to figure out where that right-of-way is. And 6 the -- I think one invoice, I think they got it. But, anyway, 7 surveyors like to survey curves, and so -- and fence builders 8 don't like to build fences on curves; circular fences are 9 expensive. So -- but I don't think -- I think that's really 10 -- I mean, we did have it here for a while, a survey amount, 11 but I really think it's been absorbed into Leonard's, so I 12 don't think we need to have anything in that Professional 13 Services. It's really more the things that come up during the 14 year that are a little bit of a surprise, such as -- 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah, lawsuits. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, like the audit we had 17 to do, for example. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, that audit. And we've had 19 architects we've had to hire to do certain things here and 20 there. And -- and if there's a price that comes up that 21 Leonard doesn't have the money, I think it could be 22 transferred, using a transfer to do some other sort of 23 professional services. But we did, like -- didn't we pay for 24 the -- these surveys, I.T. type surveys? Didn't we do one a 25 couple years ago with the radio tower? Wasn't it -- didn't 7-19-06 bwk 85 1 part of that come out of Professional Services originally? 2 And it was several years ago, but anyway, that's usually what 3 this item is used for, not a Road and Bridge item. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, also, the consulting 5 for the insurance, doesn't that come out of Professional 6 Services? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the major bulk. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the major -- about 12,5, 10 13,000, somewhere in there. Okay. Well, let's move to 11 Nondepartmental. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well -- 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, I'm sorry. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One little item. I'd like 15 to propose that we replace these 12-year-old chairs. A couple 16 of them on this dais are breaking down. And my proposal's not 17 top of the line, not bottom of the line, but middle of the 18 line, so that would be five times $277. $1,385. I can save 19 that much money on chiropractor fees after we get done with 20 it. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: With Commissioner Baldwin 22 and Bruce Oehler sitting here, they're not going to last very 23 long. (Laughter.) 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is this a capital outlay? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would put it in capital 7-19-06 bwk 86 1 outlay, unless somebody suggested differently. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: What was the total? 13 -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 1,385. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Does it rise to the level -- 5 no capital outlay. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No capital outlay. Where do 7 you want to crank it in? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Equipment? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Operating. 10 MR. TOMLINSON: Under 579. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where is operating? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's one line item, so 13 1,385 plus the 750. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: With the Human Resources 15 Officer reporting to Commissioners Court, I'm assuming that 16 that will -- those costs will be reflected in -- on this page. 17 And we can't nail them down now, but we'll need to soon. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Nondepartmental. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we should put them the 20 same we way we do I.T.; should be a separate page. Still 21 reports to us, but we keep track of it separate, so it doesn't 22 get -- 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: With I.T.? 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Like I.T. 7-19-06 bwk 87 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not with I.T. 2 MR. TROLINGER: Thank you. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The -- my best guess right 5 now is that two-person office is going to cost a total of 6 somewhere between $100,000 and $115,000 a year, and that'll be 7 partially offset by, my best guess, about a $65,000-a-year 8 reduction in the Treasurer's office, so the net cost will be 9 somewhere between $35,000 and $50,000 a year. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's probably where I see 11 it. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Give me those numbers again. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Gross cost of the office 14 would be between 100 and 115, and subtracting 65,000 from the 15 Treasurer's budget, your net cost will be somewhere between 35 16 and 50. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where -- walk me through the 18 Treasurer's reduction. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Chief deputy. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think it's just a 21 one-person office when it's simply banking and investments. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Isn't it staffed with the 23 Treasurer and three right now? Not staffed; isn't it 24 budgeted? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Treasurer and two. 7-19-06 bwk 88 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Budgeted for Treasurer and 2 two. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Treasurer and two? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's right. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Two and a half, isn't it? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. Treasurer, chief deputy, 7 and half. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, right, two and a half. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, it's the Treasurer plus one 10 and a half. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Budgeted for 40 -- $50,000 13 worth of help, whatever that is. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What tab are you on there, 15 Dave? 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: 12, I think it is -- no. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: 13. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 13. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Is the Treasurer's. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, there's 50 right 22 there, plus the FICA's and everything else. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I took that 49,000 and just 24 estimated FICA and health care. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 49 plus the FICA, 7-19-06 bwk 89 1 retirement, everything else. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One and a half. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 55. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One and a half, so I think 5 there's definitely one. I don't know if you need to leave 6 that half down there or not. But -- 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Maybe. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, just part-time. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Or part-time. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Really need to look at the 11 duties. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Going to be a half left? 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Got to have somebody to 14 answer the phone. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the only reason you need 16 anything more than a half. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, then, the net might 19 be more than 35 to 50; it might be 50 to 70 net cost. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Tommy, we'd set that up 21 under a separate department under Commissioners Court? 22 MR. TOMLINSON: Oh, yes. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I wouldn't mind -- well, 24 we'll talk about it in our Monday meeting, but I'll just bring 25 you up to date. Me and Commissioner Williams had talked -- 7-19-06 bwk 90 1 instead of setting a salary for that number one position on 2 Monday, I think we should advertise it as the salary depends 3 upon experience. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Qualifications. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We may get a wide variety. 6 And also, I think we should be flexible on the requirements. 7 I think we should say, "College degree and five years 8 experience desired," to give us a little flexibility there. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree with that. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On the -- on the Treasurer's -- 11 and you looked at this; was there any adjustment anticipated 12 in the Treasurer's salary? Elected official salary? 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I didn't consider that. 14 That's something that probably needs to be considered. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would -- my personal feeling 16 is that should be more in line with the Commissioners' salary, 17 as opposed to an elected official that is managing a large 18 group of people. Which I think is -- I mean, that's a change. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which one -- which one are 20 you talking about, Jon? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the Treasurer -- the 22 elected official salary, the Treasurer's department, should be 23 more in line with the Commissioners' salary, as opposed to an 24 elected official who is supervising a large department. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah, I see a significant 7-19-06 bwk 91 1 difference between her job and the County Clerk or -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- the clerk of the courts. 4 But we'll get to Treasurer's department. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, do you think that 6 we're treading in a legal minefield here, of tinkering with 7 that? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: No, I don't think so. The Court has 9 that authority. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: We need to look at the -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Might be a political minefield. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: -- the duties required. Well, sure 14 it's a political minefield. Everything we do here is. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You don't have to yell at me. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: You asked me a question. He's the 17 one that goosed me, though, right? 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Buster is a sensitive soul, 19 isn't he? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He's really sensitive today. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just after the library deal 23 yesterday. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're looking at probably a 25 $50,000 to $60,000 -- 7-19-06 bwk 92 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: On that order. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- net increase, depending on 3 the adjustment in the Treasurer's department. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let's say 40 to 70. 5 Somewhere -- I'll bet it will come in there. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Somebody write it down before 7 he gets completely over 100. So, I want to go back to one of 8 your thoughts. It is better to not even mention a figure than 9 to -- and then you're going to have 100 people come in with 10 all kinds of wild things going on, as opposed to being 11 specific with what number you're going to offer, and scale 12 that down to 25, as opposed to 100. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. If somebody making 14 $80,000 a year applies for it, I don't mind just -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Telling them no. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- just sending them a nice 17 letter and saying -- you know, we'll get more this way, but 18 it's not hard to narrow them down. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And you never can figure 20 those folks that will give up some money to live in Kerrville, 21 Texas. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's right. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Like we all have done. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's an unknown factor. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, it is. 7-19-06 bwk 93 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: If we find one we like and 2 the current salary is a little high for us, we may just have 3 to say, "We like you, but we can't pay that much." 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There's another dynamic in 5 play in terms of who. We have a lot of people who've retired 6 here who've had that experience who might be looking to rejoin 7 the job force. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That is true. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Or it could be a trailing 10 spouse, somebody that retired early moving here, and his or 11 her spouse has got the qualifications and could be looking for 12 a job. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would be a possibility. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. I think we'll find a 15 person. 16 (Laughter in the courtroom.) 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Do you know what contempt 18 of court is? 19 JUDGE ELLIOTT: I said I don't think Ed Nemec's 20 interested in that job. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. So, Monday we'll ask 22 for a court order to begin a job search for -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, a court order to 24 establish the department. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 7-19-06 bwk 94 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And begin the job search. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes, sir. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can we talk about the Sheriff 4 now? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let's talk about the 6 Sheriff. Has he left yet? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sheriff? Wait a minute. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: My budget's not on there. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: It's there. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sheriff's proposal for 11 consolidation. We're going to consolidate you with the police 12 department, right? Is that what we're talking about? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What happened to 14 Nondepartmental? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sheriff, you got to keep it 16 kind of short, 'cause Commissioner Letz and I have to be down 17 the street at 5 o'clock. So -- 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For another fun session. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What tab are you under, 21 Rusty? 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I shouldn't be any under of 23 them. I don't have -- this wasn't to discuss my budget, was 24 it? Or was it to discuss the step and grade? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Step and grades, Rusty. Don't 7-19-06 bwk 95 1 get all excited. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: No, the agenda item is styled so that 3 we can talk about your budget. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Fine. I have it here. If you 5 want to talk about it, I don't have a problem. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Were these proposed in the 7 Sheriff's Office? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I hope not. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's a legitimate 10 question. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You prepared these 13 schedules? 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes, I had prepared them. 15 Barbara has looked at them, and our outside auditor that the 16 County had hired. And I had talked about it's not a matter of 17 preparing them; it's a matter of starting them in the program. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The one you just -- the one 19 you just handed out? 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Handed you two. One says 21 "Clerk" on it. What that is, is the current step and grade 22 scale that the courthouse uses, okay? The courthouse and all 23 clerical personnel, like my clerical. The one I think should 24 be adjusted and everybody to go one consolidated. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's really more than 7-19-06 bwk 96 1 clerical. Road and Bridge -- 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Road and Bridge, everybody, 3 yeah. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Everybody but Sheriff's. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Everybody but deputies, 6 jailers, and nurses that use it, okay? The proposed one is 7 the one that I am proposing that you start using, that will 8 cover everybody -- every county employee, unless they're 9 elected and just straight salary or something like that. But 10 otherwise, if they fit in the step and grades, it would fall 11 in that proposed. As you can tell, on the current one, the 12 clerk, you have pay grades -- under the very first deal on the 13 far left, pay grades is the 12, 13, 14, 15, okay? And it goes 14 all the way on down to almost 35, and then you have steps 15 going to 12 across. On the proposed one -- well, basically, 16 what that is, each step on that clerk one, the difference in 17 between the steps are two and a half percent. That's the way 18 the County has done it, and that's where it got messed up with 19 deputy jailers to where it dropped their -- each grade on that 20 clerk one is five percent. And that's when we ran into it 21 last time, trying to get the deputies' deal straightened out. 22 If you actually regraded them to try and get them to fit in 23 with one joint one, it actually gave them too big of an 24 increase. 25 On the proposed one, each step is two and a half 7-19-06 bwk 97 1 percent, and each grade is two and a half percent, okay? So 2 your steps across are two and a half, and your grades down two 3 and a half; it gives you a lot more leeway in the grades down 4 to plug in other people without changing salaries drastically. 5 And if you look, as far as -- Jonathan had asked last time I 6 brought this what was the overall effect on the current budget 7 when we were doing this for the current budget; what would it 8 do to the salary line item for all the deputies and jailers 9 and the entire department? If you look at the one that I 10 provided you, and that does have names and everything and 11 salaries on it on the left part, you -- at the top it says 12 "Current G & S salary." Okay. And on the far right, it says 13 "Proposed G & S salary." This is where they would plug in, at 14 what step and grade they would. At the bottom of the second 15 page, we figured over three years, the deputies and jailers 16 and them had lost over 60,000 total, or somewhere around 17 there, okay? 18 The bottom of the second page, the difference in 19 salary that going to this type of deal would make in all 20 dispatchers and deputies and that would be the 25,726, and 21 then have you the FICA and the other. On the bottom of the 22 third page, real close to the bottom, the very two bottom 23 people are part-time. They're hourly; it didn't change. It 24 says what the difference in the jail -- all the jail personnel 25 and clerk would be, which is a total of 8,093. Now, that is a 7-19-06 bwk 98 1 yearly total of what the change would be. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Say that again? 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's a yearly total. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: How much is it? 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: On what we would be making up 6 out of the 60-something we figured we lost would be the 25 7 plus the 8, instead of 60. We've gone back down. They're 8 not -- it does -- it does not make up for everything that was 9 miscalculated, but it does come very close, and in meetings 10 I've had with all the officers, it would take care of the 11 shortages or discrepancies that they're -- 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, adopting this proposed 13 budget will add how much to your budget next year? 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Adopting this -- 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Proposed schedule. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The proposed schedule, if you 17 don't add cost of living and all that, all that -- okay, this 18 is base right now, okay? Doesn't add that. It's going to add 19 that 8,000, 25,000, plus the FICA. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Do I -- give me one number. 21 How much is it going to add? 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Judge, do you have -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. The gross salary cost is 33,8. 24 And let me figure -- 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 7-19-06 bwk 99 1 JUDGE TINLEY: -- 14 percent, and that'll give you 2 38,5, roughly. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Including retirement and -- and 5 payroll costs. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Now, this isn't what I'm saying 7 budget-wise. This is to get the entire county under one step 8 and grade. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Question. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes, sir? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You -- you've measured the 12 impact for the change to the Sheriff's Department? 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's the impact for the 15 rest of the courthouse? 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There is none. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: None? 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: None. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Zero? 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Zero. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're sure? 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm sure. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Willing to stake your life 24 on it? 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Because what if -- if you look 7-19-06 bwk 100 1 at -- in the clerk's schedule -- and the reason this works 2 out, look at a 12 -- or, okay, go to the clerk's schedule and 3 look at a 13-1 on the clerk's -- on the one that says Clerk. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. You see a salary there 6 at 25,057. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay? Under the proposed 9 schedule, look at a 13-1. 25,057. It does not reclassify 10 anybody. We added another half step in there so that we could 11 get the deputies in right without jumping things or lowering 12 things and get them back where the discrepancies were, so it 13 all works out. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Is that the only reason for 15 adding the half steps in? 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, I don't think so. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What's the other reason? 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think the other reason for 19 adding the half step is what the -- the department heads, 20 including myself, had said about getting our clerks up above 21 some grades, giving some grades -- but if you do away with 22 12's, put them at 13's, then the people at 13's are going to 23 want to go to 14's. People at 14's -- and it's that rolling 24 effect. 25 MS. UECKER: No. 7-19-06 bwk 101 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay? And this way, it gives 2 you a half step in there. You can move those that are 3 clerical to 12.5, leave the other ones at 12. And I'm not 4 going to name deals, but it gives you a little more leeway 5 than jumping five percent. It gives you -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Gives more flexibility on 7 adjustments from year to year. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It gives you a lot more. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What do you think about 10 that, Linda? 11 MS. UECKER: Well, right now the -- the grade -- the 12 14 is not being used in the clerical. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes, it is. 14 MS. UECKER: Not in clerical. No, those are 15 secretaries. Not in clerical. That's why I -- my proposal 16 was to move the 13's to 14's and the 12's to 13's. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, it doesn't do away with her 18 wanting to do that, because the figures are the same from 13 19 to 14, and 12's to 13's. It gives the Court more flexibility 20 on what the Court wants to do. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Just an observation. This 22 is an -- 23 MS. UECKER: I'm not opposed. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- enormous amount, 29 25 salary grades. 7-19-06 bwk 102 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You got 35 in the clerical 2 right now. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Coincidentally, from my 4 memory from a long, long time ago, that's the same number of 5 salary grades that the Dupont Chemical Company has, from 6 janitors to C.E.O. So -- and that was kind of laughed at as 7 too many salary grades. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, there is one more -- you 9 notice it only goes out to a Step 12, okay? I would 10 propose -- if the Court, in a formal adoption process, through 11 a hearing, would like to adopt this proposed to get everybody 12 under one step and grade county-wide, okay, which I strongly 13 recommend to figure salaries and everything, I would also 14 propose freezing it after a Step 12. Nobody goes higher than 15 a Step 12. That creates a problem. And the reason I'm saying 16 that -- and I think Linda has not heard this, but I think 17 she'll agree with it. If you look at law enforcement and Road 18 and Bridge, those that have educational, first we look at 19 longevity. A person can get a longevity raise, okay, which is 20 a step, after one year, and then it's four years after that by 21 the policy that's been adopted. 22 MS. UECKER: Three years. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Three years. So that's 1, 4, 24 7, 10, 13, 16, 19, and 22. If a person had 22 years of 25 service with this county, the most -- without any educational 7-19-06 bwk 103 1 or anything else, the most they can go up to is a Step 8. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay? But law enforcement and 4 Road and Bridge have educational. The most law enforcement 5 can get in educational, okay, is four steps. That would put 6 them from 8 to 12. And the policy for four steps on top of 7 the eight, which would go to 12. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: They're required to have a basic 9 certificate, aren't they? 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They get one for intermediate, 11 one for advanced, two for master. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. There's an advanced in between 13 there and master? 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's the way we're set up. 15 (Discussion off the record.) 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But what I'm saying is -- so 17 law enforcement technically can -- can get, in a 22-year 18 period, up to 12 steps, as long as there's no merit. And I 19 would propose a policy that this Court consider that any of 20 those employees that are capable of getting an educational 21 increase are not entitled to merit increases, because I think 22 their education serves both purposes, as a merit and 23 education. They get merit 'cause they get better educated. 24 But any county employee that is not capable of getting, or is 25 not qualified or eligible of getting an educational increase, 7-19-06 bwk 104 1 be allowed, in the 22-year employment, the capability of 2 having four merit increases. That way, at the end of a 3 22-year career, whether they're law enforcement, whether 4 they're clerks, whether they're anything else, everybody can 5 end up at a Step 12 in their grade, and so that nobody cannot 6 get to that end deal. And then, after a Step 12, those 7 salaries are frozen except for cost-of-living. The State 8 freezes theirs after so many, and most agencies do it so it 9 doesn't keep going up, okay? And I have a couple of officers 10 that, due to merit increases and educational increases -- not 11 merit increases on my end, merit increases on part -- I got 12 one that's past a Step 12 now, and I've told him his is going 13 to be frozen. And I got some that are right at it that I 14 think should be -- and I've told them. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I agree with you, 12 16 step -- Step 12 should be the max, absolutely. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think that would be fair. 18 But I also think that if they're law enforcement or a -- not 19 law enforcement. If they are an employee entitled to 20 educational, they should not get merit. That serves a dual 21 purpose. And if they're employees that are not entitled to 22 educational, then they should be eligible or able to earn up 23 to four steps merit over a 22-year period. That puts 24 everybody at a Step 12 if they retired and had all that after 25 22 years. And the other way solves a whole lot of budgetary 7-19-06 bwk 105 1 problems with the Treasurer, H.R. division, whoever it is on 2 figuring the salaries, figuring anything else. And that goes 3 along with it to do the step and grade. It's very simple. No 4 matter what kind of classification you are, if you know their 5 position, you know what their deal is. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think this is a good solution 7 for the problem in Rusty's department to get everybody on one 8 schedule, and I wouldn't mind adopting it this year. But the 9 next step, I think, next year is to turn it over and get rid 10 of about 15 of these levels, and try to do some consolidation 11 of these other over several years, because 29 different salary 12 levels is pretty absurd. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I was just wondering, in the 14 same context, Commissioner, whether or not we needed all those 15 half steps all the way up to the top. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think the -- 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There's a certain point at 18 which we eliminate the half steps. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The highest person I have 20 classified currently in the current deputies step and grade, 21 which isn't in -- is a 29. There's 25's and 29's. This would 22 cover 30 -- 31, I think I have on there -- would cover all the 23 county employees that you have, the way they are graded right 24 now. If you look at the -- the step and grade that was 25 adopted through the Ray and Associates and through Nash, okay, 7-19-06 bwk 106 1 you actually have adopted back then 35 steps. That's the way 2 it was. That's not added; that's what it was at the time. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Nancy? 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: 35 grades. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: I notice the handwriting on the 6 proposed grade/step schedule -- that's obviously not the 7 Sheriff's handwriting; I recognize that as yours. Thank you 8 for all of your hard work on this. I know where it came from. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If you -- if you look at one 10 thing, though, Judge, I've had to be careful, because some of 11 your -- some of your clerk stuff wasn't rounded right by the 12 3.2 and different cost of living, and this figured everything 13 correctly as it's supposed to be done. And Nancy's yearly 14 salary went down by one dollar. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, we're going in the 16 right direction here. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It does not change the hourly 18 rate; it's rounding. There's a couple of other ones that went 19 up by $2 or $3. It's a rounding deal in the computer program, 20 the Excel program, when you truly do the 3.2 cost-of-living or 21 whatever it's been over the years in the 2.5 steps in there. 22 If you look, the hourly rate's not changed. It's just 23 rounding part of that. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you a question. 25 This all started because the County made some mistakes and 7-19-06 bwk 107 1 beat some of your employees out of some money. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Correct. Inadvertently, but 3 correct. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Inadvertently, of course. 5 And now -- and we wanted -- and our next little step was that 6 we were going to correct that and pay those people what we had 7 underpaid them over the last three years. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Correct. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And now we're -- now we're to 10 a point to where we -- on this schedule, we're raising 11 salaries on people that were not even there. Now, did -- how 12 did we arrive at this? 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What do you mean, raising 14 salaries on people that aren't -- weren't there? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You have some corrections 16 officers -- you have three open slots -- 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Mm-hmm. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- that are currently 14-1's, 19 and we're raising them to 18-5's. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay, what you're doing -- 21 you're not raising; you're putting them in the proposed 22 schedule. That starting salary on a 14-1 would go to a 14-5 23 to make sure everybody stays in the step and grade. Okay? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They're at a 14-1 at 21,597. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Mm-hmm. 7-19-06 bwk 108 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And they're going to an 18-5. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, no, no. No, Buster. The 3 14-1 you're looking at, okay -- no. On the step and grade you 4 have, you're looking at the clerk step and grade. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Uh-huh. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I did give you the 14-1, which 7 is the separate step and grade that the jail -- the separate 8 step and grade the Sheriff's Office has now, okay? What I'm 9 doing is trying to consolidate where it doesn't change 10 courthouse people; it takes care of all the problems, all 11 right? If you look at the start -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You hush. You hush. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: This 14-1 here is under the jailer's 14 schedule, which we don't have. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We don't have that schedule? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That's right. But it equates with 17 the new 18 and a half-1, and the difference is a hundred -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: $100. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: $102. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, you do have the 21 jailers, too. Last sheet. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We do? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: But the step and grade in the far 25 left column are the old step and grade on the three separate 7-19-06 bwk 109 1 schedules that he had out there that we're getting rid of. 2 That -- that's why they don't line up with this one that we've 3 just gotten. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. There are -- there are 5 some -- I'm not arguing with you. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, there's a $100 difference. 7 You're correct, okay? It's just the step and grade you were 8 using was wrong. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me get back to the deputy 10 type folk. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: $300 difference at starting 12 salary. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: $300 -- 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right at. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- difference in starting 16 salary. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Per year. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, is that $300 what we 19 underpaid them for three years? 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's less than what you 21 underpaid them. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Only it goes on and on and on 23 forever, and adds -- and adds up. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You actually -- some of those 25 were underpaid from 600-something to 700-something. 7-19-06 bwk 110 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I guess my question is -- 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Per year. We're compromising 3 and going three -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand where you're 5 going. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A one-time compromise. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My turn. I understand where 8 you're going, and I agree with Letz on -- on your proposal of 9 the schedule. I like what you're doing. I think it fixes -- 10 fixes this all. But I'm still concerned about, does it fix 11 the problem of us underpaying those deputies for three years? 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And everybody's going to be 14 happy? 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I had a meeting with my entire 16 department three weeks ago, and pretty well advised them this 17 is what I was going with, and I got full support from the 18 entire department to do it. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He was wearing his gun that day. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Most of them got one just as big as 21 his, though. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Some of them, a lot bigger. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I've got a question. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And they're all bigger than 25 he is. 7-19-06 bwk 111 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We all are. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm going to ask you a 4 question. And, Diane, I might ask you the same question. How 5 many different salary grades do you have in your organization? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You can take your shoes off. 7 MS. UECKER: Four. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And three? Okay. What's 9 your entry level? 10 MS. UECKER: 13-1. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. Now, that person 12 that comes in as a 13-1 does good work and everything. 13 Sometime in the future, you've got an opening above that. 14 They're a candidate for promotion to the next -- no? 15 MS. UECKER: No. I can go -- I can go wide, but I 16 can't go high. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: If I'm in the entry level 18 job and you have an opening -- 19 MS. UECKER: Oh, if I have another opening, yeah. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You'll consider me for 21 promotion to that? 22 MS. UECKER: Which I -- 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What -- go from a 24 13-something to a what? 25 MS. UECKER: 15. 7-19-06 bwk 112 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: 15. Two salary grades. 2 Under this, I'd go four salary grades, with the half steps. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Going to keep the salary 4 differential the same, yes. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Would I consider -- in this 6 case, where I was promoted and got a two-step increase, would 7 I consider that a -- a significant increase? A meaningful -- 8 whatever? 9 MS. UECKER: From the 13 to the 15? 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: 10 percent. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: 10 percent. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So this won't -- that's 14 what I'm trying to get. Diane, are you okay with those 15 answers? 16 MS. BOLIN: Yeah, except that our entry level is 17 12-1. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: That's another issue that we're going 20 to be talking about. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's all part of this, too. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: How are we going to use 23 these half steps? What -- 24 MS. UECKER: How are we going to use the what? 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm calling them half 7-19-06 bwk 113 1 steps. 2 MS. UECKER: I won't use them. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You won't use them? 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The half steps were mainly put 5 in there so that you could consolidate, get everybody on one 6 step and grade. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's a convenience. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If that's -- a lot of them that 9 are in there are all -- most of your deputies, jailers, 10 dispatchers. If you look on this sheet I gave you with all 11 the names -- officer's name, okay, where it has -- on 12 Proposed, where it has, like -- down under the patrol 13 deputies, it has 21.5-4. What that actually is, is he would 14 go from the 19-4 in the current one to a 21.5, Step 4. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's my -- I got my 16 answer. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That fits him in. That's what 18 that is. That's the only way we could get him in without 19 giving him too much to make up for the discrepancy, but 20 solving the problem and getting everybody all back on one. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I understand. I just 22 wanted to think about the unintended consequences and make 23 sure we're not creating a problem for Diane and -- 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, their salaries are in 25 there, and it stays the same way, same steps. 7-19-06 bwk 114 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got a question. What 2 was your question to Linda? How many different what's? 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: How many different salary 4 grades. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Grades. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Whatever we call them. Pay 7 grades. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And what is that -- oh, I 9 see. 10 MS. UECKER: I have a 13, 15, -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 12 MS. UECKER: -- 17, and 19. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, I'll tell you a question 14 I've always had, and I cannot get my brain wrapped around 15 this. We have full-time employees and we have part-time 16 employees, and we have full-time part-time employees. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think that's changed now, 18 Buster. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, you may want to inform 20 some folks in the courthouse. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, the reason it changed, 22 some of those full-time part-time, it was the number of hours, 23 and the County had to start paying the retirement, put in all 24 that for them. So, you had part time, then you had part-time 25 full-time, 'cause they had too many hours and started getting 7-19-06 bwk 115 1 retirement benefits. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Either -- 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Under the last Legislature. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If they work over 19 hours, 5 they're a full-time employee. If they get -- 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- all the benefits, they're 8 a full-time employee. If they don't, they're a part-time. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, they're all getting 10 benefits. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: All our part-time people get 12 retirement benefits and that. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: How are you classified, 14 Commissioner? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm a full-time part-time. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just to settle the argument, 18 I guess. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: On health benefits, there's a 20 requirement of 30 hours. Now, by virtue of recent legislative 21 change, any part-time employee accrues retirement benefits, 22 correct? 23 MR. TOMLINSON: Unless they're temporary. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Unless what? 25 MR. TOMLINSON: Unless they're temporary. 7-19-06 bwk 116 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Temporary. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, no. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Now we just created another 4 class. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Temporary part-time. 6 MR. TOMLINSON: Unless they're -- you know, like, if 7 they're here -- 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I like temporary full-time 9 better. 10 MR. TOMLINSON: If you have an employee that's 11 part-time or working in a particular job, and they're done 12 when that job's over, then those types of employees, you don't 13 have to have -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's kind of a contract type. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: The other general rule for a 16 temporary is six months or less, isn't it? 17 MR. TOMLINSON: I think so. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, go back -- go back to the 19 full-time part-time thing. Just -- I just -- is there a new 20 law? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the last Legislature -- 22 previously, we weren't required to pay part-time -- retirement 23 benefits for part-time employees. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Correct. And that's under 19 25 hours. 7-19-06 bwk 117 1 MR. TOMLINSON: Right. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: But for health benefits, it requires 4 30 hours a week or more. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And now part-time employees get 6 retirement benefits. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Period. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: See, you had to bring it up 10 again. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. We have -- we have 12 part-time employees that are getting paid for vacation time. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Solve that by reclassifying 14 them all as temporaries. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, that just blows me 16 away. I don't understand that. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Legislature said you had to. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Hilderbran. Let me give you 19 his number. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 257-2333. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: You might know it. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Have you talked to him 23 about our overhead utility line problem? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He's got about half of his 25 butt gone now. 7-19-06 bwk 118 1 (Discussion off the record.) 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. We -- we have to 3 take action in a Commissioners Court meeting to -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, yeah. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's not on the agenda. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Get it on there. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I thought this was going to 9 handle some of that. I didn't put the step and grade on the 10 agenda. I think it should be -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: What about -- 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Do you want to do my budget? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, we're not doing your budget. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not today. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Good enough. Thank you. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Do we want to talk about the proposal 17 of 12 and 13, moving those to 13, 14? 18 MS. UECKER: Yeah. Here was the justification that 19 I read to y'all about that last year. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: I remember it. 21 MS. UECKER: By heart, huh? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Absolutely. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is what? 24 MS. UECKER: I think I read that to y'all last year 25 when I asked the Court at budget time to do that. 7-19-06 bwk 119 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, to be honest with you, 2 I thought we had -- even when Commissioner Griffin was here, I 3 thought we had moved the 12 to 13. 4 MS. UECKER: Yeah. See, and I thought that was done 5 too, but it never happened. Now, the Treasurer told me she 6 was going to do a -- a schedule with those changes on it so 7 that we could see what the -- the difference was going to be 8 in all the clerical positions county-wide, but I haven't seen 9 it. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Are you proposing to 11 eliminate Salary Group 12? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, and move them all to -- 13 MS. UECKER: Move all the 12's -- and, actually, I 14 don't have a 12. That would affect the Treasurer and the Tax 15 Assessor, and I don't know where they are. 16 MS. ROBISON: We have two 12's. 17 MS. UECKER: Yeah, and the Sheriff's Office. But it 18 would move my 13 to a 14, because in the clerical chart, there 19 is no 14, so it wouldn't affect the 15's, 17's, or 19's. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, you just make your first 21 level closer to your second level. 22 MS. UECKER: Yeah, mm-hmm. And, you know, and I -- 23 I don't know if you'll do it or not, but after all of the 24 intense training that we went through during the Odyssey -- 25 you know, I'd like John to say something about that. 7-19-06 bwk 120 1 MR. TROLINGER: Well, I've gotten a pretty good look 2 at, actually, all the departments and what they do, and these 3 are positions of responsibility. And Linda needs people 4 that -- you know, she's basically swearing as her deputies to 5 stamp and sign names, and you're not going to attract that 6 quality of person without -- without eliminating one or two 7 steps. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's not a lot of people. 9 I think what we're going to need is a list of everybody that's 10 in Salary Group 12 and 13, and a bottom line number of what -- 11 how much we'd be increasing salaries if we did this. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think probably hit 12, 13, and 13 14 so you can see what you're moving the 13's into, what all 14 of a sudden their new -- 15 MS. UECKER: Right. I thought I was going to have 16 that schedule, 'cause she was going to work on it and give it 17 to me. But, as you can see on this list, most of this stuff 18 is not even the requirements that a court coordinator has. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: A what? 20 MS. UECKER: A court coordinator. I mean, they -- I 21 mean, it's the fee responsibilities, you know, court -- even 22 -- even if they don't have to interpret the judgments and make 23 responsible decisions on issuance and -- 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think if we get that list 25 of how many people it's going to affect and what the -- what 7-19-06 bwk 121 1 the cost is -- the cost is going to be rolled in for, I'm 2 sympathetic with doing it. That's -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I am too. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That 12-1 is not much 5 money. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Why don't you get with the Treasurer 7 to get that tabulation for us, if you would, please? 8 MS. UECKER: Okay, I will. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes, ma'am? 10 MS. BOLIN: Can I ask a question? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Surely. 12 MS. BOLIN: Sorry, since I'm not familiar with this. 13 When we're getting you the schedule of the people, that's 14 going to affect half of our people, the 12's and 13's. That's 15 what the majority of our office is, is that. Moving them up, 16 like, if they're a 12-2, they'll be a 13-2? 17 MS. UECKER: Right. 18 MS. BOLIN: And they'll make what a 13-2 is 19 scheduled at currently? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 21 MS. BOLIN: Okay. 22 MS. UECKER: Yeah, the step will say the same. The 23 grade will just go higher, one higher. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I got a question about that. 25 Say we do that and we adopt this. Then the COLA goes on top 7-19-06 bwk 122 1 of that? 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. I just wanted to -- 5 when we do it, when we do the court order, I think we need to 6 be real clear and specific about that. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Question. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Good point. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner, good point. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: We've seen the effects of not being 13 specific enough, haven't we? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: True. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We've got stuck in that 16 crack before. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thank you. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. 19 MS. BOLIN: One more thing. When would you -- when 20 would you gentlemen like this list? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Our next workshop. 22 MS. BOLIN: Okay. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: That's a workshop that you can't be 24 at. 25 MS. BOLIN: But I'll give it to Paula. 7-19-06 bwk 123 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tell her tomorrow. Let's see 2 how bad she wants to do that stuff. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A.S.A.P. 4 MS. UECKER: Well, I think the -- the big list is 5 going to have to come from the Treasurer's office. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 7 MS. UECKER: But I will give her a call. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: That's where we are right now, is 9 step and grade schedules. And -- as the Court has seen from 10 the memo I sent to the Treasurer sometime back, I requested 11 those, and I'm not sure where we are on that. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I thought you got all that 13 information. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Jackie did come in here earlier 15 and said something happened and she was going to explain to 16 y'all why Barbara wasn't here. I don't know what that is. 17 Jackie left, and I don't know if -- 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Everybody's spooling up, it 19 looks like to me. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, what happened to 21 Nondepartmental? Did I miss it? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: That must have been when you took 23 your nap, Commissioner. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Could have been. That's what 25 I'm asking. 7-19-06 bwk 124 1 JUDGE TINLEY: We talked about it briefly. I don't 2 think we -- there was a lot of gnashing of teeth over it, but 3 we talked about it briefly. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got -- I think that's 5 where -- 6 JUDGE TINLEY: We can certainly talk about it some 7 more. Number 2? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It may not even be the place 9 for this thing to go, but we have two telephone lines that 10 9-1-1 department has been paying for all these years, and 11 it's -- one line is for our citizens to call to get the burn 12 ban information. That's one line. And then there's a 13 separate telephone line that we use to call and change the 14 information on the burn ban. They've been paying for it all 15 these years, and it's really -- we talked about this a couple 16 years ago. It's really a county function, so we want to 17 transfer that over. Tommy, how much did I tell you that it 18 was for two lines? 19 MR. TOMLINSON: $24 a month. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: A whopping $24 a month. That 21 would make a payment on a new chair. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: 288. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Get two armrests. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: If the year -- if the projected year 25 end of 6611 is true, and we add the 288 to that, what I've got 7-19-06 bwk 125 1 covered is 7,000, and telephone and computer will cover that. 2 We may want to -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd leave it at 7,000. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait a minute. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Before we go, I want to 7 have two minutes to talk about fire protection, give you a 8 report. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's going to go in that 10 7,000? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, the 420. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Got it. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Got it? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, that's fine. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: That's where it would be. Those are 16 all of our telephone line charges. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Long as it's in there. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Yeah, that's over five -- 500 19 a month that we pay for our telephone lines here at the 20 courthouse. Okay. Anything else on Nondepartmental? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir, that is all. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, shoot. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm glad -- I was hoping 24 all the press had left. Almost made it out. One of them's 25 still around. 7-19-06 bwk 126 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Can you hold on just a minute? Let's 2 see where we are on step and grade. Jackie? Ms. Magenheimer, 3 do you have any information on step and grade schedules and 4 personnel schedule? 5 MS. MAGENHEIMER: Barbara sent over the disk, and 6 when I put it in to print that schedule, it would not print. 7 I tried and tried; it would not print. I went to another 8 computer, had the same problem. I don't know what -- I don't 9 know what the problem is. So, until we get that resolved -- 10 and please don't hurt the messenger. I'm only the messenger. 11 MR. TROLINGER: Jackie is very good at 12 troubleshooting problems. That's exactly what I would have 13 recommended; try it on another computer. 14 MS. MAGENHEIMER: But, anyway -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, give the disk to him; let 16 him print it. 17 MR. TROLINGER: Bad disk. It's a bad disk. 18 MS. MAGENHEIMER: That's what I'm concluding. So -- 19 but I'm not an expert. So, anyway, that's -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, a new disk shouldn't be 21 hard to come by. 22 MS. MAGENHEIMER: No, I wouldn't think so. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 24 MS. MAGENHEIMER: Anyway, that's the message. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thank you. 7-19-06 bwk 127 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. 2 MS. MAGENHEIMER: You're welcome. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you very much. You 4 look nice in orange -- is that orange? 5 MS. MAGENHEIMER: Thank you. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Peach. 7 MS. MAGENHEIMER: Peach. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Peach. Don't get angry. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: On the way home last night, 10 I stopped by Ingram, and, you know, they're there about 16, 18 11 hours a day at Ingram Fire Department. Talked to Ray Lynch, 12 and had two questions for him. One, how much do you rely on 13 and how much do you need backup from Kerrville Fire 14 Department? And he reported that he likes their personnel 15 when he has a structure fire. Doesn't need their equipment, 16 but it's good to have the extra manpower. And I asked him how 17 often he used that. He says last time was April, and not very 18 often. He's got more structures to worry about than other 19 volunteer fire departments, I think. He's contracted also by 20 Ingram, and his area is -- goes over into one and out halfway 21 to Hunt and Mountain Home. I asked him if -- if the County 22 wanted to partially fund a combination operation fire 23 department at Ingram, some full-time and continuation of the 24 volunteer fire department, was that feasible and would he be 25 interested? And he said it is doable, and something like that 7-19-06 bwk 128 1 is being done in Fredericksburg. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Correct. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And he wouldn't comment on 4 whether or not they'd be interested. He wants to talk to his 5 boys and girls. So, I made it clear to him that it wasn't a 6 plan, wasn't an offer, just a feasibility question. Going to 7 talk to Hunt, and I talked to Mountain Home. And Hunt 8 estimates they've used Kerrville four times in the last ten 9 years. And Mountain Home, they're so far and have such rare 10 occasion to have structure fires that they don't know if they 11 will use them at all. The fourth department, I didn't talk 12 to. So, I think I can conclude from that that we're not 13 getting $350,000 worth of value out of that. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think the point, more 15 than that, is that if the City -- if the City really wants to 16 look at it like that, the City's getting far more benefit from 17 the volunteer fire departments than the -- 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Oh, yeah. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: -- County's getting from Kerrville 20 Fire Department. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree with that. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: From a backup standpoint. And 23 if the City wants an interlocal agreement to reflect that, I 24 don't see any problems. The volunteers are doing it anyway, 25 as long as there's no mandates in it. 7-19-06 bwk 129 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's what my fire 2 department guys say, is, "Why would you pay for that? It's a 3 common protocol; we all back each other up. We'll go out of 4 county, we'll go in to help somebody, and we always do." And 5 they monitor -- monitor tone-outs, and if Ingram thinks that 6 Hunt's got a situation where they might need some help, they 7 just -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They go. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- don't even wait to be 10 asked. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I can't report similarly, 12 because I didn't get ahold of Danny Smith at Center Point, but 13 I'm going to try to get hold of him tonight or tomorrow 14 morning and ask him the same questions. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's a real good 17 solution. Possibly put a -- I don't know how they work the 18 logistics, if you want to have it -- if there's a -- I think 19 you need to have a substation in Kerrville South, though. You 20 don't want to have to rely on Ingram trucks getting to 21 Kerrville South. You need to have a substation down there. 22 Then, administratively, they're -- they work through Center 23 Point or Ingram. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would, perhaps, satisfy 25 Commissioner Baldwin's concern. 7-19-06 bwk 130 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Hunt has been real 2 successful in getting other people's money. They've got -- 3 they've really changed in the last five or six years to a 4 large fleet. They now have two substations, one in Cypress 5 Springs, -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- one across the road from 8 me. They'd be one of the other fire departments to consider. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think another really good 10 one is Turtle Creek. I mean, they're -- 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: They're good. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're in need of -- of 13 funding, it appears to me, and volunteers. But if we were -- 14 we were funding a person, that we would really -- might kick 15 off the fire department. That's really the logical location. 16 And if they could rely closely and have a good working 17 relationship, either administratively, or just between Center 18 Point and Ingram as immediate backup, that may work, and just 19 have a -- you know, a small staff. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, actually talking about 21 that, the Kerrville South area is -- is Turtle Creek's 22 coverage area. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, you know, whatever we do, 25 we've got to get everybody to sign off on that, and just 7-19-06 bwk 131 1 palsy-walsy stuff. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think it makes -- I mean, 3 it appears to me that the direction to go is to greatly reduce 4 the primary coverage area, if possible, that the City of 5 Kerrville is providing, and make it real clear that it's a 6 two-edged sword on this backup, and the City benefits more 7 than the County under the current situation. And if they want 8 to start paying for that, we'll be glad to give them the bill. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well said. Well said, 10 Commissioner. I'll have a report for us maybe Monday. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We've got to get going. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything else, gentlemen? 13 We'll stand adjourned. 14 (Budget workshop adjourned at 4:40 p.m.) 15 - - - - - - - - - - 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 7-19-06 bwk 132 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my 5 capacity as County Clerk of the Commissioners Court 6 of Kerr County, Texas, at the time and place 7 heretofore set forth. 8 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 4th day of 9 August, 2006. 10 11 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 12 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 13 Certified Shorthand Reporter 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 7-19-06 bwk