1 2 3 4 5 6 7 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 8 Budget Workshop 9 Friday, July 28, 2006 10 9:11 a.m. 11 Commissioners' Courtroom 12 Kerr County Courthouse 13 Kerrville, Texas 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 23 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 DAVE NICHOLSON, Commissioner Pct. 4 24 (Present from mid-morning recess on) 25 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 2 1 I N D E X July 28, 2006 2 PAGE 3 Review and discuss various matters with respect to FY 2006-07 Budget and matters having budgetary impact, 4 including but not limited to the following matters and/or the consideration of budgets for the following 5 departments: 6 County Clerk 4 County Court at Law 36 7 Juvenile Probation 41 Adult Probation 44 8 District Clerk 47 Justice of the Peace 1, 2, 3, 4 93 9 Constable 1, 2, 3, 4 119 County Attorney 132 10 County Auditor 145 County Treasurer 149 11 Facilities and Maintenance 152 Other matters 161 12 --- Adjourned 190 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 On Friday, July 28, 2006, at 9:11 a.m., a budget 2 workshop of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I will convene a workshop -- call to 8 order a budget workshop of the Kerr County Commissioners Court 9 scheduled for this time and date, Friday, July 28, 2006, at 10 9 a.m. It is past that time now. Are there any holdover 11 items that any member of the Court wishes to discuss before we 12 get into the items on our scheduled workshop? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Holdover items? You mean 14 from other -- other topics we didn't finish? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: And want to go back into now, or we 16 want to go back to them later. I'm sure there's a lot of them 17 we're going to have to go back to later, but -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, if we're going to come 19 back to -- and I'm sure we are -- fire services, fire service 20 contract, I'll report on my meeting with the Center Point 21 Volunteer Fire Department at that time. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: I think several of the elected 23 officials or department heads are here, and they're kind of 24 depending upon this schedule as it's -- Judge Brown? 25 JUDGE BROWN: I just -- Jannett's going to have an 7-28-06 bwk 4 1 agenda item for the County Clerk getting two new employees. 2 I've got to go get a chiropractor adjustment here at 9:30, and 3 I just want to support that -- her recommendation, because I 4 know it's very badly needed. You just have to be there to see 5 the workload that they handle, and we're always short-handed, 6 especially on Tuesdays, when we're trying to process all these 7 people on Tuesdays when we have our criminal docket. So, I 8 just want to put my two cents in. I think it would be 9 something that you really ought to seriously look at, 'cause I 10 think it's very badly needed to get two more employees for the 11 County Clerk's office. That's all I got to say. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge Brown, let me ask you a 13 question. We've had several people come through here and 14 basically have proved to me about the growth in our county. 15 Do you see an increase in your business? 16 JUDGE BROWN: Oh, yes. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I mean -- 18 JUDGE BROWN: Big-time. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- related to growth in the 20 county. 21 JUDGE BROWN: I would say that's what it's -- it has 22 to be something related to the growth in the county. We're 23 handling a lot more criminal cases than we ever have before. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 25 JUDGE BROWN: Plus a lot more civil cases. But the 7-28-06 bwk 5 1 criminal cases are more -- we had criminal -- we had a docket 2 -- how many people were on that docket Tuesday, from the jail 3 by itself? 4 MR. EMERSON: Five, six pages. 5 JUDGE BROWN: Yeah, five or six pages of jail 6 docket. We filled up almost the whole side of the courtroom 7 with jailbirds last Tuesday. And it's getting that way more 8 and more. And we're -- we're trying to address that with the 9 District Judges and the Sheriff, and we're all working on a 10 plan to do something about that right now. But, you know, it 11 is -- yeah, the -- as the growth comes, here comes more -- 12 more volume, higher volume. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 14 JUDGE BROWN: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 16 JUDGE BROWN: Thank y'all. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's move to the County Clerk 19 budget, if we might. It's under Number 3, I believe. 20 MS. PIEPER: Well, gentlemen, you heard the biggest 21 concern I have from Judge Brown, and that's getting two more 22 deputies for my office. I would like to point out that when 23 Pat Dye was clerk, she had more deputies than I do, because my 24 staff had been cut. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Who had more deputies? 7-28-06 bwk 6 1 MS. PIEPER: Pat Dye when she was the clerk. So, 2 I'm working with less deputies than what she had. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, that shows you've done 4 a good job. That means you can keep on doing a good job. 5 MS. PIEPER: But because of the growth, we can't 6 keep it, and I've tried to figure out how I can combine my 7 mental health and probate deputy, trying to get one of those 8 to help the County Court at Law, but because we have the front 9 counter work that both of them do, there's no way that I can 10 combine those duties to free up one of the deputies there. 11 It's just -- my deputies are just getting maxed out in work in 12 all departments in my office. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why two? Why not seven? Why 14 not eleven? 15 MS. PIEPER: Because I think I can do it efficiently 16 with two. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do what? 18 MS. PIEPER: Run my County Court at Law. And in 19 addition to that, I'm hoping that one of those people can also 20 help me in elections, 'cause our elections are just horrible. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, elections is not a 22 year-round thing, though. 23 MS. PIEPER: No, but -- well, when you consider that 24 we've got that -- that because of the HAVA, and I'm the only 25 one that has the election equipment, I have all the cities, I 7-28-06 bwk 7 1 have the schools, I have Headwaters. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand. 3 MS. PIEPER: I have primaries. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just think you need to -- 5 you need to convince us that two people are going to stay 6 busy. I mean, I -- 7 MS. PIEPER: Oh, they're swamped right now. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The two people that we 9 haven't hired yet? 10 MS. PIEPER: No. My County Court at Law section is 11 swamped. I have -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, one person is not going 13 to answer the problem? 14 MS. PIEPER: No. And from what I heard this morning 15 from my administrator that works in County Court at Law, she 16 was told that in the works, as Judge Brown had just spoke -- I 17 just heard of it the first time today; one of the things that 18 they're trying to resolve is possibly holding court out at the 19 jail three times a week. Well, if that's the case, I'm going 20 to have to have a deputy that can go out there three times a 21 week so that they can be able to file in the cases. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Same deputy, right? The 23 same one that works there. Same one that works County Court 24 at Law now would go. 25 MS. PIEPER: I have four that work County Court at 7-28-06 bwk 8 1 Law. But we're going to have to have at least one or two out 2 at the jail if -- if this transpires as to what they're 3 talking about. And then on -- in that case, I'm going to also 4 have to have mileage for them. 5 MR. TROLINGER: If it's okay, Jannett, maybe I can 6 pipe in a little bit on County Court at Law. I've spent a lot 7 of time, I'd say, analyzing, almost, how things happen on a 8 Tuesday and the preparation and the post work that goes on, 9 and it almost seems to me that what Linda Uecker's doing with 10 the judges and -- and getting the -- and getting out to the 11 jail to -- to sort of pre -- I don't know what the wording 12 is -- pre-process a lot of the people that show up on Tuesdays 13 in County Court at Law would take a lot of load off. But the 14 growth and the volume, it's just huge, and it's pure chaos on 15 Tuesdays in that courtroom. And when they get to their 16 afternoon docket, they're always short-handed. So, I've 17 definitely seen that. And even with the level of automation 18 -- the County Court at Law is at the top of the pyramid as far 19 as automating with Odyssey and taking advantage of the tools 20 available. They're still overwhelmed. 21 MS. PIEPER: And you can -- you know about elections 22 too, how overwhelming that is. 23 MR. TROLINGER: That's -- that's months in advance 24 when you start working on that. 25 MS. PIEPER: I do. 7-28-06 bwk 9 1 MR. TROLINGER: Started working on it two months 2 ago, right? 3 MS. PIEPER: Right. The last Commissioners Court 4 meeting is when we had to appoint the judges and alternates, 5 and then the Judge, two days ago, had to sign off 40 notices 6 of appointment and stuff. I mean, so we do start months in 7 advance, even though our election is not until November. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Mr. Trolinger? 9 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir? 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Of the counties our size, 11 we're the most expensive. Of counties our size, we got the 12 most employees. Counties our size have fewer employees in 13 their Clerk's office than we do. Can you explain how that can 14 be? 15 MR. TROLINGER: As far as number of people that 16 handle County Court at Law? I don't know if those are 17 separated from the clerk's functions in the counties you 18 looked at, but, you know, that might be one explanation, where 19 you've got a separate -- a separate department. I don't know. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Trolinger, on the -- this new 21 software package that we put into place, the Odyssey system, 22 is that fully implemented in the County Clerk's office? 23 MR. TROLINGER: Yes. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Are -- are all personnel in the 25 Clerk's office utilizing that technology to the maximum extent 7-28-06 bwk 10 1 that -- that it makes available? 2 MR. TROLINGER: I'd say County Court at Law is very 3 close on that. I think we've got some more pieces where we're 4 waiting for, on the Software Group side, the new features and 5 benefits that are going to make it better. But as far as what 6 they've got right now, yes. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: You think they're pretty well using 8 the maximum benefits available from that technology? 9 MR. TROLINGER: Yes. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: That are available and in place now? 11 MR. TROLINGER: There are a couple things that are 12 going to streamline the paperwork that they handle on court 13 day, but other than that, just new features that are added as 14 we go along. But currently, what they've got, they're using. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Madam Clerk, are all of your 16 deputies full-time now? 17 MS. PIEPER: Yes -- well, I have two part-time that 18 come out of Records Management, but that's all they do is 19 records management, and by law, that's all they are allowed to 20 do. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I thought we zeroed out your 22 part-timers last time and gave you another half clerk to make 23 a full-time. 24 MS. PIEPER: No, my half clerk is in Records 25 Management, and that money's coming out of that particular 7-28-06 bwk 11 1 budget. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where would you put two 3 deputies if you got them? 4 MS. PIEPER: I'd have to probably bring in one desk, 5 and maybe I could fit one at the front counter at the end. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are all of your deputies, in 7 terms of their responsibilities, maxed out? They can't handle 8 any more workload? 9 MS. PIEPER: Yes, that's correct. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Everyone? 11 MS. PIEPER: Everyone. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Every single one. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: What about the cross-training 14 function there in your office? Are all of them that have been 15 there a year or more pretty well cross-trained? 16 MS. PIEPER: Within different departments. I don't 17 have -- my probate deputy is not cross-trained in, like, my 18 County Court at Law. I mean, she could probably do a little 19 bit of it, but not -- she's not fully trained, no. I mean, 20 no -- to answer that question, no, because I don't -- we don't 21 have time -- like, my mental health deputy or my probate 22 deputy, we don't have time to cross-train them in that, 23 because the girls in County Court at Law have trouble stopping 24 long enough to train them. I mean, they can show them bits 25 and pieces of it, and they try to assist when they can, but -- 7-28-06 bwk 12 1 and then they have their own work that they've got to keep up 2 with. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The -- how long have you been 4 a Clerk? 5 MS. PIEPER: Since '99. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Public official. 7 MS. PIEPER: Since 1999. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Can you tell me how 9 long that is? That's seven years. 10 MS. PIEPER: Yes. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Seven years. And when you 12 took over, there was one more employee in your office than 13 there is today? 14 MS. PIEPER: That is correct. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And we -- so we've gone down 16 one, and the workload is -- 17 MS. PIEPER: Has increased. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- is -- let me -- 19 MS. PIEPER: Okay, I'm sorry. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- do my talk, and then you 21 can talk. The workload has increased by -- we don't know how 22 much, but by what everybody's talking about, a tremendous 23 amount. So, it seems to me that, you know, thinking like 24 Commissioner 4 thinks, that we're overloaded, overstaffed and 25 overpaid, and I can't remember -- whatever. 7-28-06 bwk 13 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Not overpaid. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not overpaid, but compared to 3 other counties, we -- we spend way too much money. It seems 4 to me, in the seven or eight years, and the growth in the 5 county, it just seems to me that we have caught up. I mean, 6 we're in -- we're in a place to where we really need to focus 7 on -- on either leaving you alone about having too big of an 8 office, or allow you to get some employees. I don't know; 9 maybe we can compromise here and do one. I mean, I would -- I 10 think you probably need two. I don't know. I don't know 11 that. 12 MS. PIEPER: Well, I tried to compromise with the 13 Court for the last several years. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So -- don't get off in that. 15 So, I'm thinking that you need two, and I don't know that -- 16 that there would be three votes at the table to get you two, 17 so you may want to compromise and say I'll settle for one. 18 Otherwise, you may not get any. I'm just telling you how the 19 gang works here. 20 MS. PIEPER: I always try to work with the Court, 21 and if that's my choice, then I don't have a choice. I will 22 settle for one. I mean, any help I can get is wonderful. 23 We've been utilizing community service workers. We have 24 received some good ones, and then there's some that we've had 25 to go back and redo their work. We've also utilized the 7-28-06 bwk 14 1 internship at Schreiner, and the girl that we have this 2 semester, she's really good, but today's her last day. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think she'd really be happy 4 with one. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You think so? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Just -- 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Don't leave the podium. 8 Mr. Trolinger, join Ms. Pieper at the podium, if you will. I 9 thought the Court was given to understand that the acquisition 10 and implementation of the new Odyssey system was going to 11 really benefit the County Clerk's office in terms of 12 productivity so that we wouldn't have to cross this particular 13 issue again for a while. What would be your response? 14 MR. TROLINGER: If the -- if the number of court 15 cases go up, it's inevitable that you need more people to 16 process them. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, you're only speaking 18 one element of the Clerk's office. 19 MR. TROLINGER: And that's -- I thought that's what 20 this addressed, was that County Court at Law. 21 MS. PIEPER: It's basically addressing County Court 22 at Law. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, you're telling me you 24 need two deputies more to handle County Court at Law? 25 MS. PIEPER: That is correct. And I hope to be able 7-28-06 bwk 15 1 to utilize one employee off and on during elections when I 2 need. If I just get one employee, there will be no way that I 3 can utilize that one employee to help in County Court at Law 4 and elections as well. But I'm hoping, with two, that I would 5 be able to get some help. My chief deputy racked up so much 6 overtime during elections, and I just had to give her comp 7 time. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How many people do you 9 assign to County Court at Law now? 10 MS. PIEPER: I have four working in County Court at 11 Law. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How many? 13 MS. PIEPER: Four. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Four? 15 MS. PIEPER: But County Court at Law is the 16 criminal, the civil, and the juvenile. So I have one deputy 17 that is designated, and her main duty is the criminal. Of 18 course, the other -- the other three assist her, because 19 there's so many cases. And then I have one that her main duty 20 is civil, but, of course, she assists with -- I don't know how 21 to explain it to make you understand, but I have four people 22 in there that do criminal, civil, and juvenile. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Constitutional duty? 24 MS. PIEPER: Yes. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Four. Just the County Court 7-28-06 bwk 16 1 at Law. So, you're really asking for a 50 percent increase in 2 your work force for County Court at Law. 3 MS. PIEPER: That is correct. And if you'd like, we 4 can -- I mean, the County Attorney is here. He can maybe 5 explain that, yes, we do have -- 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, you had Judge Brown in 7 here. That's a good -- I don't know if you need the County 8 Attorney; we've already heard the County Court at Law Judge. 9 MS. PIEPER: If we can't keep up with him, then -- 10 MR. EMERSON: Yes, I can tell you the case load is 11 up between 10 and 20 percent. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 10 to 20 percent. 13 MR. EMERSON: In County Court at Law. And we've 14 slowed down. We've slowed down our procedures to reduce our 15 end of the docket so as not to drown the Clerk's office. We 16 actually have a little additional capacity. We could move 17 faster, but we can't outstrip our support. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: The -- are you not right now moving 19 more cases through than are actually being filed? 20 MR. EMERSON: Correct. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: So you're actually staying ahead of 22 the filing, and the additional cases you're disposing of 23 are -- are working on the backlog? 24 MR. EMERSON: Correct. Last numbers I saw, we were 25 right at 104 percent, so we're moving about 4 percent more 7-28-06 bwk 17 1 than were being filed. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: And do you have any idea what the 3 backlog is? 4 MR. EMERSON: Outstanding cases, the last time I 5 looked, I think there were 1,957. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How many? 7 MR. EMERSON: 1,957 open cases. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Does that include current as well 9 as -- as backlog? 10 MR. EMERSON: Correct. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. What portion of that would be 12 backlog? Do you have any idea? 13 MR. EMERSON: I don't know, Judge. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 15 MR. EMERSON: I can tell you that our cases that go 16 to jury trial historically are about a year and a half old 17 before they make it to trial. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: That's not highly unusual, I don't 19 suppose. I suspect upstairs they're probably in excess of two 20 years before they actually get before a jury, a lot of them a 21 good deal more than that. My point is, if we're already 22 making -- disposing of more cases, even with the increased 23 case load, than -- than are currently being filed, number one, 24 that's an anomaly probably from most places across the state, 25 that you're not increasing your backlog. I haven't looked at 7-28-06 bwk 18 1 the O.C.A. numbers, but I suspect that this is an anomaly. 2 And depending upon how many are backlogged, if you're slowly 3 eroding away there, hopefully, if those numbers hold over some 4 period of time, you're going to have that backlog wiped out 5 and you're going to have to throttle back, because without 6 cases -- see where I'm coming from? 7 MR. EMERSON: Yes, sir. I can't disagree with what 8 you're saying at all. All I'm saying is that my office has 9 more capacity than what we're currently utilizing, but we 10 can't outstrip our support. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, sure. I appreciate that. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Pat, that is an excellent 13 argument. I've been looking for an argument against it all, 14 and that is a great one. But I tell you guys, we're going to 15 have to come to the realization of the growth in this county. 16 And I know -- I know -- I mean, I've been on really, really 17 tightwad Commissioners Courts before, and I understand all 18 that, but I -- I mean, we really have to -- whether we fund 19 this request or not, we really have to come to the realization 20 that we're growing like crazy. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, I don't have any quarrel 22 with that at all. I know we have. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You sure? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The kind of quarrel I have 25 has to do with what we were given to understand was the 7-28-06 bwk 19 1 increase in productivity, and that by reason of new technology 2 and software. Apparently, that hasn't happened. 3 MS. PIEPER: Well, and it's possible that if our 4 software had not had so many bugs in it, it wouldn't have put 5 us quite as far behind. Once the County Attorney files his 6 disposition, we're not through with that case. I mean, I 7 don't know what he has to do on his end, but, you know, once 8 we put our file stamp on that disposition case, then we have 9 to do the CJIS and we have to do the DIC-17's. We have all 10 these kind of forms, and we have to distribute copies and we 11 have to do the data entry. I mean, so it doesn't stop with 12 just the -- you know, him bringing us a disposition. But 13 because of some of the bugs in the computer as well, we have 14 one file alone that is this thick with nothing but the CJIS 15 forms that they're working the bugs out. So, not only are we 16 trying to go forward, but we're still trying to play backup 17 from that stuff. And I have 87 pages of documents that -- and 18 I don't know how many; there's 25 or 30 names on -- cases on 19 each page of 87 pages that have errors on it from the 20 conversion from the Legacy to the Odyssey that I've got to 21 straighten out before my monthly report gets straightened out 22 on a regular basis. And my girls in County Court at Law does 23 not have time to do that, so I've tried to take on that duty. 24 But right now, I've got elections I'm working on, so I'm 25 having trouble doing those. I got about 10 of them out of the 7-28-06 bwk 20 1 87 pages done; I've got 10 cases, not 10 pages. But I'm 2 swamped, too. I mean, we're just all swamped, but it's hard 3 for us to take on any duties. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I want to say it again. 5 Eight years ago, we had more employees than we do today, and 6 the growth, maybe 10 to 20 percent in cases and workload and 7 that kind of thing. That doesn't compute, to me. It seems 8 that we need to open our minds that this thing is getting out 9 of hand, and we need to -- and it's not just you. You're one 10 of -- I mean, almost everybody that has been in here has said 11 the same thing. 12 MS. PIEPER: Right. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And it's the first time in my 14 17 or 18 years that I've heard everybody say the same thing, 15 so I don't -- 16 MS. PIEPER: Now, and it could be possible that in a 17 couple of years, when all the bugs are worked out and we're 18 caught up with all the cases, then we can lessen the amount of 19 employees, but right now I need them. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, right. 21 MS. PIEPER: I mean, 'cause I -- I'm open to that as 22 well. My girls are beyond swimming. It's to the point to 23 where they're sinking now and they need help. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We may have to recess. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We have a problem? We're 7-28-06 bwk 21 1 having an emergency here? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, it's -- 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Kathy, did you get my 4 snuff? 5 MS. MITCHELL: I took it, yes. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: As I'm sure everybody understands, 7 downsizing is a whole lot tougher than upsizing. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, yeah. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: And it gets to be a -- even in an 10 at-will employment environment, it ain't that easy. I don't 11 want to keep Ms. Pieper from being able to perform the 12 functions that she's required to perform, but I think we need 13 to proceed slowly and catch up with this growth in increments, 14 possibly. I think your comments earlier, Commissioner 15 Baldwin, might -- might be subject to consideration. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah, I'm thinking that 17 Commissioner Baldwin is surely correct that the county's 18 growing. I don't think it's a whole lot faster rate than it 19 has been in the past, but certainly -- 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Steady. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And then, if we look at it 22 from our aggregate economic viewpoint, the revenues available 23 to the County are growing all the time 'cause of more people 24 and higher valuations, but at least last year, and perhaps 25 again this year, our spending is out -- outstripping the 7-28-06 bwk 22 1 revenues, so it's almost a catch-22. If we're growing and 2 property's more valuable, why can't -- why don't we have 3 enough money to pay for additional staff? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. This is the tough 5 time of the year. Okay. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: There were a couple of other items 7 that we had discussed on your budget, Ms. Pieper. 8 MS. PIEPER: Yes, sir. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: On your employee training, I had -- I 10 had cut that in half. Based on our discussions, you wanted 11 that restored, and the basis for that was primarily because 12 you use that as also training-slash-conference moneys for your 13 deputies? 14 MS. PIEPER: That is correct. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: For things they must attend. And 16 that your conference money was mainly just for you, and maybe 17 your chief deputy? 18 MS. PIEPER: Well, my chief deputy -- 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Or actually just you, as I recall. 20 MS. PIEPER: Just me, that is correct. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: 'Cause you go to three or four 22 conferences a year. 23 MS. PIEPER: Yes. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I believe you told me four, 25 actually, and one of them comes out of the Elections budget. 7-28-06 bwk 23 1 MS. PIEPER: That is correct. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 3 MS. PIEPER: And my chief deputy comes out of the 4 employee training. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: When you go to a conference, 7 the chief deputy goes with you? 8 MS. PIEPER: Most of the time, yes, if -- if things 9 in the office permit. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, you want the 1,500 11 restored? 12 MS. PIEPER: Yes, I do. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: The other item that we discussed was 15 Books, Publications, and Dues. I annualized -- pulled that 16 off an annualization projected by the Auditor. Ms. Pieper 17 tells me that since that occurred, she's had to do a budget 18 amendment, 'cause she's exceeded her -- her budget allocation 19 for this year, and that amendment is over 300. So, that's why 20 she wants that one restored; is that correct? 21 MS. PIEPER: That is correct, yes. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Did I peg that one? All right. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 300 or 345? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: 345. She's already over 300 this 25 year with the budget amendment. 7-28-06 bwk 24 1 MS. PIEPER: Also, gentlemen, I put in for 400 hours 2 of overtime. Several of my deputies, because of elections, 3 has got in numerous hours of overtime, and I've been giving 4 them comp time, but I really don't think that's legal, because 5 then they haven't had a chance to take that comp time off. 6 So, that -- that kind of worries me. I mean, they don't mind 7 having the comp time. Of course, it's hard for them to take 8 that comp time, but I think we're -- and I don't know the laws 9 on this; that's why it kind of worries me. But I think we 10 need to put money in there to pay them. I think my chief 11 deputy has, like, over 200 hours of comp time. And -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We don't generally carry 13 comp time over from one budget year to the next, so if you've 14 got outstanding comp time, it needs to be worked out, if at 15 all possible, or has to be paid out. 16 MS. PIEPER: That's why I want it in the budget, 17 because I don't have money in my budget to pay it out. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How much do you have 19 outstanding right now? 20 MS. PIEPER: Truthfully, I don't know; I haven't 21 looked recently. But I think if we include 400 hours worth of 22 comp time in my next budget, then I think we'll be okay. And 23 hopefully we won't use it, but just in case. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Comp time is paid out at 25 time and a half? 7-28-06 bwk 25 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm, at current rates. 2 MS. PIEPER: And I do have this figured at time and 3 a half for -- for my chief deputy and one of my 4 administrators. And this is -- this is basically due to the 5 elections, you know, at night when we're up here working. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Wouldn't that better be 8 placed in your Elections budget? 9 MS. PIEPER: Yeah, we could do that. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If that's what it's for? As 11 opposed to your regular budget. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think you better ask Tommy 13 that one. 14 MS. PIEPER: Tommy, can we do that? 15 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, I have -- from a systems 16 standpoint, I would rather keep it in one place. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You've got a line item for 18 judges and clerks. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: That's not for our employees. 20 That's for -- 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Outside? 22 MR. TOMLINSON: Outside. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 24 MS. PIEPER: That's for our early voting workers and 25 our election day workers. 7-28-06 bwk 26 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Got another issue on that one with 3 FICA, if I'm not mistaken. First six under it is -- we don't 4 have to be responsible for FICA, and then thereafter, we have 5 to -- okay. 6 MS. PIEPER: So, is it the census that I can include 7 that in my budget? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm okay with it. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Moving on down, the Operating 10 Equipment, I -- I moved those to Capital Outlay, but those are 11 recommended by the I.T. Manager. See where they're noted 12 there? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I moved those to Capital Outlay. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: $2,800? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 17 MS. PIEPER: Are we going to -- is there any other 18 questions, gentlemen, that y'all have on that general budget? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: I think that covers it. On the 20 Election Services, that brings us to that FICA issue. I did 21 not put in a number initially, but -- 22 MS. PIEPER: Mindy Williams from the Auditor's 23 office is the one that brought that law to my attention. And 24 because we have -- we had a primary in March that I had early 25 voting workers in that worked for two weeks, and then I've got 7-28-06 bwk 27 1 workers coming in in November. That's within the calendar 2 year, and by law, we have to pay those workers -- because 3 they're going to make over that 600 mark, we have to pay them 4 FICA. Now, the ones that will be working -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Next spring. 6 MS. PIEPER: -- in November, election day, did not 7 fall in that category, because even if they worked in the 8 March -- last March primary, they were paid through the 9 primary parties -- the political parties, not us. So -- 10 that's how she explained it to me. So, this is just basically 11 for the early voting workers that were -- that we have to pay 12 the FICA on. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Bottom line is, we carry that $2,000 14 over. Next item, the Ballot Expense, after discussion with 15 Jannett and looking at what she had in upcoming elections, we 16 reduced that to 6,000. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: The Ballot Expense. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, okay. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Next item, Employee Training. Here 21 again, we're back to the issue we had before. She wants that 22 restored because of elections training. She comes -- hers is 23 750 down at the bottom, but her clerks are going to be out of 24 that 2,000. She doesn't think 1,000 is going to be enough. 25 MS. PIEPER: And normally I only send just my chief 7-28-06 bwk 28 1 deputy with me to election conference, but I need to send my 2 administrator as well. The Secretary of the State is 3 implementing what they call TEAM, and it's a software that all 4 -- it's going to integrate every voter in the state of Texas, 5 so we're going to have to be trained on that. And I -- and 6 because my administrator and my chief deputy take care of what 7 they call the mail ballots and FPCA's and stuff like that, 8 they need to be trained in that software as well, because they 9 will be probably working with it -- one aspect of it more than 10 I will, and then I'll be working with a different aspect of 11 that software. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Any more money forthcoming 13 from the great rainbow HAVA pot of gold? 14 MS. PIEPER: Yes. And I need to talk with John. He 15 and I haven't spoke yet, because I -- I just got back from 16 Austin last week on some election training. And, actually, 17 this training expenses, I'm going to submit for reimbursement 18 from HAVA, but I just need the County to fund it up front, and 19 then it can be replaced. And then I need to speak with John, 20 and -- and after I learn a little bit more information about 21 what is required, the software and a computer, if I have to 22 have an extra one, that will come from HAVA as well. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. In the form of 24 reimbursement? 25 MS. PIEPER: Yes. 7-28-06 bwk 29 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What is Signs? Fund 12. 2 MS. PIEPER: That's the handicapped parking and all 3 that that's required for our polling locations. And we 4 purchase them brand-new and send them out for one or two 5 elections for our election judges and clerks, and they come 6 back broke or whatever, parts missing. And I haven't replaced 7 -- you know, then that's when we use the duct tape and 8 whatever. But it's getting to the point they're getting too 9 old and too brittle, and I just -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can you use duct tape on the 11 clerk situation? 12 MS. PIEPER: Wish I could. But it's -- they're 13 getting -- it's getting to the point to where I don't have 14 enough per polling location. So the signs -- whenever I 15 contract to hold elections with other entities, we get 16 10 percent of their budget, and that money can only be used 17 for election supplies. It cannot be used for -- to pay 18 election judges or clerks or whatever, just supplies itself. 19 And I would like to use that money to buy me some new signs. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is this signage something 21 that comes down out of Austin, or things you have to have done 22 here? Do you purchase them from some central source, or are 23 these things you have made up here, the signage? 24 MS. PIEPER: I go with the cheapest vendor I can 25 find. 7-28-06 bwk 30 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 2 MS. PIEPER: I mean, it's the law that we have them, 3 but I use the cheapest vendor I can find. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: We actually reduced that item, over 5 on the far right-hand side, to 3,000. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 7 MS. PIEPER: And this Fund 12, we're possibly going 8 to get anywhere from $3,500 to $4,500 back in it, because I'm 9 doing the Headwaters election. Their trustees or directors, 10 or whatever they're called, will be placed on the bottom of 11 our November ballot. So -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. And the annual 13 license would be your Odyssey license? Is that what we're 14 talking about? 15 MS. PIEPER: No, that is the -- that is the software 16 that allows me to print out the report from the election day 17 process that it -- the reports that y'all canvass from. And I 18 found out last week during Austin, we are no longer called a 19 central counting station, because all the votes are tallied 20 out at the individual precincts. Because of our election 21 equipment, we are now called the central reporting station; 22 therefore, we don't have to have what they call the tabulating 23 supervisors and the assistant supervisors and the managers 24 that we normally used to have to have. So, that's one good 25 aspect. 7-28-06 bwk 31 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you still count them here? 2 MS. PIEPER: No, sir. Whenever you put -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They walk in from the 4 precinct and say, "Here's the numbers"? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Give them a disk, huh? 6 MS. PIEPER: Yes, it's called an M.B.B. Yes, it is 7 a disk, like. And because it's already tallied on that, all 8 we do is upload that disk. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Those just compile all of 10 them together. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So you should have the 12 results by 7:30. 13 MS. PIEPER: The minute they bring us the -- the 14 disk, then we upload it and print reports, and we -- we get 15 out of here pretty good -- pretty reasonable now. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 17 MS. PIEPER: But there is an annual license on that 18 of $8,810. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's go to Records 20 Management. There's one modification there. On Microfilm 21 Storage, the monthly cost is 162, so the 1,800 won't cover it. 22 That's restored back to 2,000. 23 MS. PIEPER: Also, on my plat cabinet, my chief 24 deputy left me a message that -- the 3,000 quote here was just 25 off the top of my head, to try to remember what we had paid 7-28-06 bwk 32 1 prior. Actually, the cabinet itself is $4,250, and the 2 shipping is 475, for a total of $4,725. And I desperately 3 need one. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that -- what are you 5 calling a plat cabinet? 6 MS. PIEPER: All these plats that get filed -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that the cabinet back 8 against the wall over there that hangs? 9 MS. PIEPER: Yes. I have six of them. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's the new cost? 11 MS. PIEPER: It's $4,725. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 4,725. 13 MS. PIEPER: We tried to order one last year, but it 14 came in all bent up and everything, and it's been a big ordeal 15 trying to collect on that portion of it. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: You mean we paid for it and we 17 haven't got the money back yet? 18 MS. PIEPER: I'm not sure where we're at on it, 19 between my chief deputy and Mindy in the Auditor's office. 20 But this is what the initial cost was going to be, so I was 21 going to be under budget as well on that. So, that was kind 22 of a blessing, that that way we wouldn't have to do a budget 23 amendment and try to figure out where the money was going to 24 come from. But it's getting to the point to where I'm going 25 to have to -- unless we get a cabinet pretty quick, we're just 7-28-06 bwk 33 1 going to have to store the plats flat until I can get one in. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you know anything about that, 3 Mr. Tomlinson? 4 MR. TOMLINSON: I knew it was returned. I don't 5 know where we are on it, the issue of -- 6 JUDGE TINLEY: It occurs to me, if we didn't get 7 what we paid for, we ought not be out the money. 8 MR. TOMLINSON: I know that there's an issue. I 9 don't know whether we have the money back or not. I have to 10 ask. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: When you say you don't know whether 12 we have the money back, that means we did pay for it? 13 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes, we did. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 15 MS. PIEPER: I believe we do. But -- I mean, 'cause 16 my chief deputy hasn't said anything else about it. 17 MR. TOMLINSON: What did you say about the Microfilm 18 Storage line item? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: That was restored to 2,000, because 20 the monthly cost is 162. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: That's fixed cost, and so 1,800 23 wouldn't cover it. I was working off the 1,600 projection as 24 being total annual cost. Obviously, that was erroneous. 25 Okay. 7-28-06 bwk 34 1 MS. PIEPER: So, can I find my plat cabinet, 2 gentlemen? Thank you. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I tell you what, I want an 4 explanation on the other one, on last year. 5 MS. PIEPER: My chief deputy is out today. I can -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I would not vote to spend 7 another penny until I knew where last year's money is. I 8 won't. 9 MS. PIEPER: Okay, I'll find out and let you know. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is she the one that knows all 11 that stuff? 12 MS. PIEPER: Between her and Mindy, yes. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. I bet you Mindy will 14 know. 15 MS. PIEPER: One of my chief deputies is keeping the 16 supplies in the office, and so when it come in bent -- or -- 17 well, actually, I think the wrong one came in, because our -- 18 she had made a comment that our plats wouldn't fit into that 19 cabinet that came in. But I'll find out and let you know. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, thank you. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I think that pretty well 22 covers yours, doesn't it? 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: One clarification. All the 24 salary costs we're looking at are pre-COLA, right? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Some of them that are plugged in by 7-28-06 bwk 35 1 the elected official are post-COLA, some are pre-COLA. My 2 recommendation is that you not rely upon what's in that first 3 one, unless -- you could probably tell by looking that they're 4 the same as last year. They do not include the longevity or 5 -- or the educational upgrades. 6 MS. PIEPER: I just plugged in the same figures as 7 last year. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm thinking that the 9 Election Services budget last year was an anomaly, because we 10 had the Help America Vote. But I'm looking at '03-'04 actual 11 and '04-'05 actual. 16,000, 34,000, and now 52,000. That's 12 really a rapid acceleration of election costs. What's 13 happening to drive costs up at that rate, three times what it 14 was three years ago? 15 MS. PIEPER: HAVA. 16 MR. TROLINGER: Electronic voting equipment and 17 software. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, what I see is that 19 '02-'03, judges and clerks cost 7,700. '04-'05, 17,000, and 20 now 20,000, so that's up three times. 21 MS. PIEPER: Well, back then we only had 16 polling 22 locations. During the redistricting, they added. We now have 23 20 polling locations, and we have at least five election 24 workers in each polling location. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The amount of reimbursement 7-28-06 bwk 36 1 we're getting from other tax -- government entities, is it 2 going up like -- like that? Three times what it was three 3 years ago? 4 MS. PIEPER: That we're receiving from other 5 entities? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: From the City. 7 MS. PIEPER: No. Basically, the only thing the City 8 is doing is renting our machines. And then, because we are 9 the holders of the machines, then when it comes to the logic 10 and accuracy testing and predefining and the zeroing and all 11 that, my staff does it. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Big increase. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: From 16,000 to 52,000. And 15 it's not -- it's not HAVA. HAVA's paid for. 16 MS. PIEPER: I think years back, too, during early 17 voting, we didn't have to have as many election workers during 18 early voting, but because now we have anywhere from 500 to 19 1,000 a day come in to vote, then I've got to have the staff. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Is that it for the clerk? 21 Let's move to County Court at Law, under Tab 5. Judge Brown's 22 message to me was, "I'll do the best I can, and if I run out 23 of money, I'm going to come ask you for some more, and it'll 24 be legitimate." Which is the basic philosophy you need to 25 have. By way of information, the only thing Judge Brown 7-28-06 bwk 37 1 specifically mentioned to me had to do with attorney's fees on 2 his criminal side. I reduced that slightly, but on the civil 3 side, I increased it. And I did so because of the -- the 4 numbers that you see that they're running. Actually, if you 5 annualize the civil side, the master court appointments, 6 you've got almost $29,000 for approximately the first six 7 months. That will annualize out to about $56,000, $58,000, so 8 I increased that slightly over what he was asking for. But on 9 his criminal side, I reduced it slightly. 10 MR. TOMLINSON: What was that amount? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Pardon? 12 MR. TOMLINSON: What are those amounts? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: On the court appointments, 43. 14 Master, 53. Did you not get a copy of it after I did my -- 15 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: -- little stuff here? Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I was reading through 18 his notes, and master court appointments, they say that 19 they're increasing this particular line item by 10,000, but 20 that's not what you're saying, and it's not what I see on the 21 front. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: My recommendation ended up being 23 20,000, as you -- as you can tell. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, no, I can't tell that. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Well, current budget is 33. 7-28-06 bwk 38 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, I see what you're saying, 2 yeah. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: And I increased it to 53, but I did 4 that based upon year-to-date expenditures of just under 29,000 5 that you can see. And we generally run at least 30 days 6 behind, which means that's going to be through March, or six 7 months. If we double that figure, you're going to get 8 $58,000. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I must be looking at 10 something different than the rest of y'all. Where are we in 11 the book? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Under 5. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thank you. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tell me how he can decrease 15 Court-Appointed Attorneys and then increase Master Court 16 Appointments and -- and that makes it okay. I don't get that. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, those are my numbers that are 18 plugged in. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, his recommendation is 20 to do that, is to decrease the Court-Appointed Attorney. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Actually, based on current year's 22 budget, he plugged that in for the same amount. He did 23 increase significantly the master court appointments. A 24 disproportionate number of those civil C.P.S. cases, master 25 court appointments, are being charged to his budget, as 7-28-06 bwk 39 1 opposed to the 216th at and 198th court budget. And -- and 2 I'm merely looking at -- I'm merely looking at how those 3 pay-outs are running this year under year-to-date columns. 4 And if you annualize those figures, you annualize the 5 court-appointed attorneys, you're looking at about 36,5; you 6 double that 18,210. And, of course, on the -- on the master 7 court appointments, that comes out to about 58 if you 8 annualize that one. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think the Commissioner's 10 right, Judge. There's a little confusion in what the numbers 11 show on the sheet versus what Judge Brown's synopsis says. He 12 talks about decreasing Line 402 by 8, and then he says this 8 13 plus 9 more is being requested in Line 403. Well, that's 14 17,000; 8 plus 9 is 17. I don't see that 17 -- where do I see 15 that 17,000 increase? Oh, over 33? I see it now. 17 and 33 16 is 50. I got it, okay. I see it now. And you're raising it 17 to 53? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Based upon actual year-to-date. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I see. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Actually, the net is -- is I'm 21 penalizing him one; dropping him two in one place, increasing 22 him three in another. Kind of a wash, but -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I guess the confusion is 24 that, really, in 402, there wasn't a drop of 8,000 in the 25 current budget. Current budget's 45; came back in at 45, and 7-28-06 bwk 40 1 you're recommending a 2,000 decrease. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So that's where the 4 confusion is, at least it is on my end. Whatever. 5 MR. TOMLINSON: There's -- I think the confusion is 6 that on this worksheet, it shows what the current budget is. 7 The original budget was 45,000. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 9 MR. TOMLINSON: So I think he's working off of the 10 original budget. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. The current budget would be 12 the original budget as amended. 13 MR. TOMLINSON: Right. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The current budget's 45? 16 MR. TOMLINSON: No, the original budget was 45. 17 It's been amended many, many times down to what it says the 18 current budget is now, which is -- I show -- I have -- I 19 printed mine out a month after you did, and the current budget 20 now in 403 is $34,793. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's not what I'm looking 22 at. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: What's he's been doing is robbing 402 24 for 403, probably. 25 MR. TOMLINSON: Exactly. 7-28-06 bwk 41 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: That's a pretty common offset. When 4 one runs short, they just go to the next one. They do that 5 upstairs in the district courts also. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: The other figures that I've made 8 adjustments on are under Court-Appointed Services, 401. I 9 reduced that to 350. And I did so because nothing's been 10 spent this year. I reduced Special Judge to 1,000, because in 11 annualizing that figure, it would be considerably less than 12 1,500. The next one down, which is Telephone, annualizing 13 that, I dropped that to 500. Statement of Facts I dropped to 14 250, again, because of the amount expended this year. This is 15 primarily for the Auditor's benefit; apparently, he doesn't 16 have a copy of what I've done up here. Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okey-dokey. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Juvenile Probation, move to 18. I 19 had Ms. Mitchell give you a copy of what the Juvenile Board 20 approved last week. Actually, I think it's the same as -- as 21 what you've already had. I would note on those that the -- 22 the 4.2 COLA is included. The roll-ups are calculated based 23 on those COLA's being included. The major increase that you 24 see is going to be on 482, Alternate Housing. Significant 25 increase. That's as a result of looking at the year-to-date 7-28-06 bwk 42 1 actual. If you use that figure, it'll scare you to death, 2 'cause it'll come out about a little over 250,000 if you 3 annualize that figure. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If you analyze 145? Or the 5 one -- 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the budget of 145, but 7 year-to-date for the first six months is 127, so if you 8 annualize that one, you're over 250. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Thus the major increase from -- from 11 145 over to 170. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, you're saying -- or what 13 I'm hearing you say is that your plans are to send less 14 youngsters out of county. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: No, I don't know that it means that 16 at all, Commissioner. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good try. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't know that it means that at 19 all. What it means is -- is that the -- anything that's 20 charged to the Alternate Housing costs, be it short-term or 21 long-term, based upon what we've spent so far this year, the 22 127,000 in the first six months, that's an indication that 145 23 ain't going to to be near enough. If you annualize that 127, 24 you're going to come out over 250,000. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I understand that. So, 7-28-06 bwk 43 1 it's -- so you're recommending 145, though. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: 170. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. Mine says 145. 4 MS. MITCHELL: I just gave it to you this morning, 5 Commissioner. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm sorry. Of course. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I got the new one here, 170. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. That's the major increase and 9 the roll-ups. One or two items on there; some went down, some 10 went up. Okay. Anything else there? 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. I want to resurrect 12 the plan to combine the Chief Probation Officer job with the 13 Director of the Juvenile Detention Facility, save about -- 14 roll-up, $60,000 -- that would save about 75,000 a year or so. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Commissioner, I'm with you. 16 If we had -- had any say-so -- I mean, I guess we could -- I 17 guess we could say no to this budget right here and do it that 18 way. I'd want to build some kind of little fence around me, 19 though, so I don't get hit by flying beer bottles, but -- if 20 we did that. But I think it's a nice thing to talk about. 21 Plus, your losing your snuff between the car and here has got 22 me a little upset. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We need to take a break. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We do. We do. Poor Kathy. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We done for that one? We in a 7-28-06 bwk 44 1 position to take a break? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We are. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's take about a 15-minute recess. 4 (Recess taken from 10:12 a.m. to 10:30 a.m.) 5 - - - - - - - - - - 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order, if we 7 might. I should have pointed out, Commissioner Letz indicated 8 to me that he was committed to be somewhere. Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He was committed to be 10 somewhere else? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: That's right. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I guess they just 13 uncommitted him. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Either that, or he was going to sleep 15 late; I don't know. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sleep late is more likely. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We had such a big rain, I 18 couldn't get out of the ranch. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Glad you're here. We've 20 been spending money like drunken sailors. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We just increased the County 22 Clerk's office by six deputies. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's move to Adult Probation. 24 That's under tab 18 also. There's not much to wrangle about 25 in that one. All those costs are -- number one, are not too 7-28-06 bwk 45 1 great, and number two, pretty well fixed. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 18? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: This is our share of a 5 multi-county effort; is that right? 6 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: For the most part, Adult Probation 8 is self-sustaining. We are obligated to provide to them 9 certain -- 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: -- core items; that we give them a 12 place to hang their hat, which is the rent, and we've got to 13 provide for the utilities and maintenance and -- and things 14 like that. But other than that, that's about it. Otherwise, 15 they support themselves. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, we're -- oh, they're 17 supported by the fees they collect? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. So, this 62,000 or 20 whatever it is -- 46,000, that's just a small portion of their 21 total cost? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. Oh, yes -- yeah. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: How many -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: You don't see any salaries in there. 25 They've got, what, about 10 probation officers out there? 7-28-06 bwk 46 1 MR. TOMLINSON: Their budget is close to a million 2 dollars. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Crime costs, doesn't it? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, very expensive. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: There's no -- we keep 6 looking for a way to use the excess capacity over at the 7 Juvenile Detention Facility. There's no way to reduce the 8 costs here by offering to let them office over there, is 9 there? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rent -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: We wouldn't have enough space over 12 there. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: To house Adult Probation in 14 the old building? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm talking about the administrative 16 portion of it. Now, if we totally reconfigured the whole 17 building, you would, yeah. But you're talking about a 18 considerable expense to get it there. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. At break, we were 20 talking about a dog hotel being needed in Kerrville. Maybe we 21 could turn that into a dog hotel, generate some real revenues. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Dog hotel? 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It beats a library, Buster. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Does, in fact. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On that -- while you mention 7-28-06 bwk 47 1 that, though, when we were doing Commissioners Court, on the 2 -- probably Professional Services, something we may want to 3 think about adding there is several thousand to get an 4 analysis of what that building could be used for and what it 5 would cost to do some things to it. I mean, I don't see us 6 using it as a -- its intended function in the near future. 7 And we toss out these things all the time, and I think that 8 it's -- you know, we ought to get some idea of what it would 9 cost to do some of those. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Wait till after next 11 Wednesday; I got a group coming up from Houston to take a look 12 at it. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To buy it? 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: If somebody came along and 15 wanted to lease it or buy it, you'd be open to an offer? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You just may get one. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Good. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We'll know more about it 19 next week. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's go to the District Clerk 21 under Tab 9. 22 MS. UECKER: Thirty seconds, huh? Did you look to 23 see what that -- what you had on the Capital Outlay item? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Actually, I don't think I have any 25 there. 7-28-06 bwk 48 1 MS. UECKER: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Morning. 3 MS. UECKER: Good morning. How are you? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good. How are you? 5 MS. UECKER: Fine. Before I start with nickels, I 6 would like, if you don't mind, to give you kind of a status 7 report on what's happening in the office. In 2003, we had 705 8 criminal cases; 2004, 1,079; and 2005, 1,110. Now, that's 9 about a 30 percent increase in the last two years. Civil 10 cases in 2003, 1,298; 2004, 1425; 2005, 1816, which is greater 11 than that. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What were your first three 13 numbers? Seven -- 14 MS. UECKER: 705, 1,079, and 1,110. I can tell you 15 right now, gentlemen, we are very behind. We haven't even 16 been able to do our dismissal docket. I've got some -- a 17 college student that's working part-time doing some of the 18 grunt work, the copies, the deliveries and stuff like that. 19 Our biggest stress right now is the appellate. I've got a 20 6-foot wall that has five shelves. It is full of cases on 21 appeal. The problem that's causing me right now is, my poor 22 little Simona, that's already retired once and came back, is 23 doing the appeals. I hear rumblings that she's thinking about 24 retiring because she can't keep up with civil and do her 25 appeals. Having said that, I'm not asking for any more staff. 7-28-06 bwk 49 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yea. 2 MS. UECKER: I'm not asking, because I feel 3 confident that once we get the bugs worked out of Odyssey, 4 that this is going to relieve some of the stress. I've been 5 working the courtroom. I've been doing criminal stuff. I've 6 been helping at the civil. I've been issuing passports. I've 7 been doing juries. So, as long as I can get in there and 8 help, then you know, I think it's all going to work itself 9 out. I would -- I don't know what you're going to do with 10 merit increases. I've got several that they'll stay after 11 5:00 or they'll come on Saturdays, and when I get their 12 timesheets, I go, "Okay, you didn't put your time down, your 13 -- you know, your comp time." "Well, no, I didn't ask you if 14 I could do it. I just wanted to get it done, so I just came 15 in so that I wouldn't have to look at it again on Monday." 16 So -- you know, and I don't know what you're going 17 to do about merits, but I do have a couple that, you know, I'd 18 like to consider. And I don't know -- one, I know who that 19 is. The other one, the way I -- I do that is when I do my 20 performance evaluations, I do it on a point basis. And they 21 know that the ones with the highest points are going to be 22 considered for merit increases. The 13 -- moving my 13's to a 23 step/grade 14's, as I had requested, is only going to impact 24 my budget for the next year $2,226. That's just for my 25 office. I know passports has been an issue of discussion in 7-28-06 bwk 50 1 the last couple of years, but just for your information -- I 2 mean, I don't care what you want to do with it, but without an 3 increase in employees, we're taking in 50,000 a year. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How much? 5 MS. UECKER: 50,000 processing passports. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What was the 13's to 14's? 7 MS. UECKER: $2,226 is going to be the difference. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, thank you. 9 MS. UECKER: And that just impacts two people in my 10 office. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Linda, when we talked about 12 passports one of the other years, there are some requirements 13 that you have to, you know, be bonded or -- I'm not sure what 14 it is. 15 MS. UECKER: Right. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To be able to do it. Can that 17 -- is that something that's going to be readily done, or is it 18 something that is hard to get done? In other words, I know it 19 used to be done down here by our administrative assistant. Is 20 it -- what level, I guess -- I mean, what do you have to have 21 to be able to do that? 22 MS. UECKER: Well, number one, you have to be a fee 23 officer, because the statute provides that the District Clerk 24 can charge fees. Doesn't say it about anybody else. You 25 know, and I know Thea did them and she collected a fee. I 7-28-06 bwk 51 1 don't -- that I know of, and whether or not that was legal, I 2 don't know. We do have to be certified. I have to send them 3 to school every once in a while for the updates. We have been 4 -- we've received certificates of acclaim for detecting 5 potential fraud cases. And -- but other than that, I think 6 the fee officer portion is the biggest issue. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And who -- what other county 8 people are fee officers? You're the only one listed as fee 9 officer? 10 MS. UECKER: The County Clerk, Probation Department, 11 the Sheriff's Office. Let's see. I guess the County 12 Treasurer. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 14 MS. UECKER: And the County Tax Assessor/Collector. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So -- okay, several that deal 16 with money. So, everyone that deals with money. 17 MS. UECKER: Anybody that's authorized by statute to 18 receive funds. Okay. That's it. Any questions on that? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do have a question. One of 20 your opening comments was about -- oh, what is the term where 21 you give someone -- give them a -- a stipend for -- 22 MS. UECKER: Merit? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: A merit, excuse me. I 24 thought -- I'm not a big fan of this operation, but I thought 25 that you -- that the elected officials, that we would put "X" 7-28-06 bwk 52 1 amount of dollars in the budget somewhere for merit increase. 2 MS. UECKER: Mm-hmm. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You decide who you -- you 4 make a recommendation to the Commissioners Court, and the 5 Commissioners Court, in our infinite wisdom, would make the 6 decision who gets that. Isn't that what we had set up? 7 MS. UECKER: No. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, we never adopted that 9 policy. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We never did do that? 11 MS. UECKER: That policy was not adopted. And, you 12 know, I was opposed to it, because how the heck would a 13 commissioner -- County Commissioner know -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, that's where I'm at, 15 too. 16 MS. UECKER: -- who deserves a merit increase? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Don't want to do that. 18 MS. UECKER: Don't want to do that. In the past, 19 what you have done is you have put, like, two steps in the 20 budget for that elected official to decide whether or not -- 21 you know, if you can give a merit increase -- you can give 22 them both to one person or you can split them, or you don't 23 have to give them at all. There's been times -- a couple of 24 times when I didn't give one at all. There's been a couple of 25 times -- no, just one time when I gave both steps to the same 7-28-06 bwk 53 1 person. But that's -- 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And I think that program, 3 there was some folks on -- members of the Commissioners Court 4 that felt like that that had been abused. 5 MS. UECKER: Right. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And that's why the 7 conversation went to where, "If you can't handle your own 8 office, we'll handle it for you." 9 MS. UECKER: "We'll handle it for you." 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: However -- 12 MS. UECKER: However. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: However, by by adopting the 14 new step and grade schedule, did we not provide for the 15 ability for a department head or elected official to give a 16 merit? 17 MS. UECKER: No. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: By reason of the half steps 19 we put in there? 20 MS. UECKER: No. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I thought we did. 22 MS. UECKER: In my opinion, I know it -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If we put it in their 24 budget? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think they can do just what 7-28-06 bwk 54 1 Linda's doing and ask for the two-step, or one step or 2 whatever, I mean, and the Court is -- either says yes or no. 3 I mean, obviously, I think you have to do it across the board. 4 I mean, you can't -- well, I guess you can let Linda give a 5 merit but nobody else, but I think it's more of a policy 6 issue. Adding the .5's in there -- I mean, potentially, I am 7 kind of with Dave on that. I think we have too many 8 classifications already; we don't need to -- we didn't really 9 need to double them. And, in reality, we only needed to 10 probably add these in it to fit the Sheriff rather than to add 11 it all the way through. When you actually get through, it 12 makes more sense really to add it just where he needs them, 13 and maybe down the road try to eliminate those half steps as 14 it is, or half -- 15 MS. UECKER: The half steps, to me, are -- that was 16 a waste of time. But, you know, that's just my opinion. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The 2,226 difference for 13 18 to 14, is that built into your Line Item 104? 19 MS. UECKER: No. 'Cause there was -- no, 'cause 20 there was no amount. As a matter of fact, I just got the 21 proposed step and grade schedule this morning. I got the 22 salary schedule several days ago, and it was incorrect, so I 23 had to deal with that. But, no, I don't have any amounts on 24 the salaries at all. I just wanted to let you know that that 25 was going -- how it was going to impact my office. And I 7-28-06 bwk 55 1 don't know how it's going to impact the Treasurer -- the Tax 2 Assessor or the County Clerk. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: On the merit -- 5 distribution of merit moneys, you see, I -- I trust Ms. Uecker 6 to discriminate between excellent performance and average or 7 mediocre performance. I believe she does that. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If anybody does it, she does 9 it. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah, but I don't trust 11 everybody to do that. And I know what happens. Well, the 12 National Education Association hates merit increases, because 13 they don't want to discriminate against poor performance. And 14 I've seen supervisors in the past that will take merit money, 15 and they -- they're unwilling to face up to -- to poor 16 performance, so they just give everybody their share of it. 17 MS. UECKER: Well, I know in the past -- you know, 18 and I was kind of shocked when the former County Attorney 19 said, "Well, if we get merit, I just give it to everybody." 20 And I said, "Well, you're the guy that screwed it up for all 21 of us," you know, basically. So -- 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We're -- that's water over 23 the bridge. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In fact, you're correct. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- but I think we go 7-28-06 bwk 56 1 back to a policy issue, is that you give -- you can't give 2 every department the same, but either, you know, have some 3 sort of break of, you know, departments the size of the 4 District Clerk or County Clerk, they get two. The other ones 5 get one. You can't give everyone -- you have -- either have 6 to pick them out, or -- 7 MS. UECKER: Well, probably the Tax Assessor and the 8 County Clerk and District Clerk may be two, and -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The rest of them, one. 10 MS. UECKER: Yeah. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maybe. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah, maybe. 13 MS. UECKER: But, you know, that's just what I'd 14 like to do. I'm -- okay. Going to nickels. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 16 MS. UECKER: Judge Tinley had reduced the Employee 17 Training from my requested 1,500 to 500. Last year, I spent 18 1,718. There again, that money is used for that passport 19 update training. I don't send everybody; I usually just send 20 a couple, and then they come back and we have to self-certify 21 the rest of them over the internet. That's a small portion of 22 that. The rest of it is -- the big one that I do is the Texas 23 District Court Alliance, which I'm one of the founders of 24 that, and that is a very, very intense education. We work 25 through lunch. There's no B.S., there's no play, there's no 7-28-06 bwk 57 1 vendors. There's nothing but just hitting it hard, hitting it 2 hard. And we do -- we give as many hours in a day and a half 3 as this other association does in four days, and everybody's 4 coming. The good news is it's going to be in Kerrville this 5 year, so -- and I always register all of my staff. It's 6 cheap. Last year I had, you know, travel for them. I didn't 7 do everybody last year -- I take that back. I think I did 8 about a third of them. This year, I'm going to register 9 everyone, because they get a very -- when you register, you 10 get this very intense workbook, and they all use it all year 11 long, and it's just something that I think is real important. 12 And the -- and I know you're thinking, okay, your year-to-date 13 was zero, but that happens in September. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 15 MS. UECKER: So, I'd ask that that be -- 16 JUDGE TINLEY: How much are you going to spend in 17 September? 18 MS. UECKER: This year, probably just the 1,000, 19 'cause I'm not going to have room and board. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, you want that moved up 22 to 1,000? 23 MS. UECKER: Yes. At least, yeah, if that's okay. 24 The other one was the -- let's see. Next is -- 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me talk about the microfilming 7-28-06 bwk 58 1 cost. 2 MS. UECKER: Okay. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a question mark about that, as 4 you can see. 5 MS. UECKER: You did. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: You've been spending 6,000, 7,000, 7 $8,000. 8 MS. UECKER: Right. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: And we're suddenly looking at 10 $25,000? 11 MS. UECKER: Only because -- this would be, like, a 12 one-year deal. And I don't know if -- if that amount is 13 actually going to be enough to complete the project, but we're 14 moving completely away from using microfilm, and -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Is this going all to C.D.'s? Is that 16 what that is? 17 MS. UECKER: Yeah, which that is working absolutely 18 beautiful. I think the County Clerk's looking at it now. I'd 19 like to finish that project. I think John could probably -- 20 what? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Can -- is there any way we can put 22 that in some of these dedicated funds that we can't use for 23 anything else, and keep it out of the general budget? 24 MS. UECKER: You can, yes. You can if the money's 25 there. I -- I am asking for 3,000 out of the one that's just 7-28-06 bwk 59 1 for District Clerks. That's -- that money's -- every year, we 2 have some pre-1900 documents that I feel it's very, very 3 important to keep them from deteriorating. I mean I've got 4 Governor Sam Houston's signature. And every year -- and it's 5 costly to send those to New Jersey and have them washed and 6 have them sealed in mylar, but I think it's very important to 7 do that, and every year I've been spending around $5,000 to do 8 a portion of that. This year I'm asking for, you know, 3,000. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Four. 10 MS. UECKER: Four? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, Records Management and 12 Preservation. 13 MS. UECKER: Which one -- see, there's actually 14 three -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: What I'm looking at. 16 MS. UECKER: -- dedicated funds there; one just for 17 the County Clerk, one just for the District Clerk, and there's 18 one for anybody in the county. Those funds get there from 19 court fees from the County Clerk's office and the District 20 Clerk's office, but that money can be used for Commissioners 21 Court minutes. It can be used for the Treasurer. It can be 22 used by the Auditor. It can be used by anybody. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Linda, once you get that -- 24 going back to 25,000 request, once that process is completed, 25 if it's completed, is that going to free up equipment or -- or 7-28-06 bwk 60 1 anything? 2 MS. UECKER: Oh, hell, yeah. 3 MR. TROLINGER: Microfilm machine. 4 MS. UECKER: You know these two reader printers? 5 When we get all of that done, I'm opening that window, and you 6 better not be standing below, because they're going out the 7 window. (Laughter.) As a matter of fact, I think we've 8 already hauled one to the dump or gave it away; I don't 9 remember. But right now, you know, for convenience, we're 10 having to use the microfilm, and microfilm is still the only 11 archival. But with DM-2000, now CASO, when they -- when they 12 do the C.D.'s, they do a roll of -- they do it on microfilm 13 first, but they don't send me a duplicate to use. They store 14 that in their state-authorized, you know, storage facility 15 that meets all those standards and requirements, and it's in 16 San Antonio. I had to move -- I moved everything from Austin 17 to San Antonio, 'cause it was less. And it was more 18 convenient, and I trusted this person a lot more with the 19 county's, you know, historic documents. But -- and she makes 20 a C.D. of that. Of course, right now we're -- we're using -- 21 on the current stuff, we're using The Software Group's 22 scanning, but on the older stuff that's pre-Software Group, 23 she sends a C.D. of that to John, and he loads it in this -- 24 in the PaperVision program, and it works beautifully. It 25 would really be wonderful when we can get everything in there. 7-28-06 bwk 61 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, there's a benefit to 2 getting this done and behind you, as opposed -- I mean -- 3 MS. UECKER: Absolutely. And I'm not even sure that 4 25,000 is going to be enough. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What would it take you to 6 get it done? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And how much money is in 8 dedicated funds? 9 MS. UECKER: Yeah, it's probably going to take -- 10 what, 50? I would say. I would guess 50. Not more than 50. 11 (Discussion off the record.) 12 MS. UECKER: Now, I have -- I'm asking for 13 another -- two more PaperVision licenses, 2,300. So, as we 14 get more -- as we get more images into the -- into PaperVision 15 of the old stuff. Right now, I have one license. That means 16 if Clerk A is using PaperVision, Clerk B can't. I mean, 17 although it's available on all computers, only one person can 18 use it at a time. And -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tommy, do you know how much we 20 have in those dedicated records-type funds? 21 MR. TOMLINSON: No, I don't -- I don't have my book 22 with me. 23 MS. UECKER: I might be able to tell you; hold on a 24 second. 25 MR. TOMLINSON: I can work with her on that. 7-28-06 bwk 62 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean -- 2 MR. TOMLINSON: I think there's some cash available 3 in the District Clerk's -- 4 MS. UECKER: There's about 7,000 in the one that's 5 just for District Clerks. Now, that's a new fund. We can use 6 some of that. And I think there's, like, 60,000 or 70,000 in 7 the one that's generally for the county. And then -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, it seems to me that 9 we've been going through this process for a number of years 10 where, you know, we're going to get there eventually. Why not 11 just get it done, if we can use dedicated funds, get rid of 12 that old equipment, free up some space, and quit having to 13 have two systems working simultaneously like we have right 14 now? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's kind of the way I see 16 it. That's the reason I want to know what it would cost to do 17 the whole job. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sounds like there's probably 19 enough, depending on, you know, what else may need to be 20 requested out of those funds. Probably -- 21 MS. UECKER: Right. And if you want to do that, and 22 if you want to authorize whatever, we've got enough money to 23 do it. You know, I just hesitate asking for that much out of 24 that fund, because I'm the only -- I mean, I'm not the only 25 person that's entitled to it. 7-28-06 bwk 63 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, if you're using it for 2 a purpose that's approved and sanctioned, why not? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Did the County Clerk have any 4 requests for records management? 5 MS. UECKER: Not out of that. 6 MR. TOMLINSON: I think there's -- I think there's 7 5,000. She asked for five out of -- out of Records 8 Management. 'Cause there's -- 9 MS. UECKER: Out of the general one? 10 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah, because there's a total of 11 nine, what I have. 12 MS. UECKER: Now, the big -- the big one has more 13 than that in it. The one that's for -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's 60 or something? 15 MS. UECKER: I think. Isn't it at 60? 16 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't know. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why don't we find out? 18 MR. TOMLINSON: You asked for -- for 4,000? 19 MS. UECKER: Mm-hmm. 20 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, she asked for five, because 21 there's a total of nine. 22 MS. UECKER: Oh, budgeted. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: Budgeted. 24 MS. UECKER: Well, I guess what we need to find out 25 is how much money is in this line item. 7-28-06 bwk 64 1 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't know how much is in there. 2 MS. UECKER: And I'll find that out. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: In the District Clerk fund, as 4 much as you -- you know, take that down to close to zero. I 5 mean, they all build up relatively quickly. 6 MS. UECKER: Right. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And let's get it done, and then 8 concentrate on the District Clerk (sic), trying to get her 9 office done, too. 10 MS. UECKER: Yeah. And in doing so, I think -- I 11 think these people are now in discussions with the County 12 Clerk's office to do the same, because she wanted to wait last 13 year to see how it was working in our office. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That makes sense to me, to get 15 your office completed. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Am I hearing that that 17 $25,000 microfilm can be captured? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It'll go into another records 19 management type fund. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So that won't be a -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: District Clerk. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- a net addition to our 23 total budget? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Actually, it's a deduction. 25 25,000 will be deducted off this one. 7-28-06 bwk 65 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Good. That's good. 2 MS. UECKER: Well, now, the 25,000, you're going to 3 have to take the 8,000 off of that, because the 8,000 is what 4 our -- I use for the current -- you know, the current upkeep 5 of records preservation. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, we would change -- 7 JUDGE TINLEY: 17. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- from 25 back to 8, and 9 then find the dollars to do the conversion from the other pot. 10 MS. UECKER: Right. Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that right? 12 MS. UECKER: Yes. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. So, we're back to 8, 14 and we fund the conversion out of other -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Dedicated funds. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- dedicated funds. 17 MS. UECKER: I'll work on some figures there. Going 18 back up to Postage, I need to take -- what I had proposed 19 was -- of course, I think y'all already know that all the 20 postage machines are going to be obsolete. I think the Tax 21 Assessor's already replaced hers. I've still got -- I'm using 22 mine -- well, after I think January, those meters are not 23 going to be any good, and they all have to be replaced -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let me ask you a question. 25 MS. UECKER: -- because of technology. 7-28-06 bwk 66 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is there any -- do you see 2 any advantage in our having a centralized mail station? 3 Yours, Tax Assessor, Clerk? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: For the courthouse, you mean, 5 probably? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 7 MS. UECKER: I don't know. It's -- somebody's still 8 going to have to do the upkeep on it. There may be a little 9 advantage, but I don't see a whole lot. There's still times 10 -- well, there probably could be, but somebody's going to have 11 to -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I understand somebody 13 has to do the work. Then we'd have to figure out, you know, 14 what kind of clerk and where to do that. Can we -- can we 15 consolidate three or four mailing operations into one and make 16 any sense out of it? Equip it appropriately? 17 MS. UECKER: I don't know. Right now, I -- I don't 18 think I can answer that. Now, there are a couple of instances 19 -- a couple of situations, and I've got the -- the statutes 20 written down somewhere, where it requires the clerk to deposit 21 certain mail into the mail receptacle if it's mailed out. I 22 haven't looked at that in several years, but I don't -- I 23 don't know what those are. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Linda, you said the meters are 25 obsolete. My memory of meters is these things that you -- 7-28-06 bwk 67 1 letters run through them one at a time, and it stamps them. 2 Is that still used? Or can you not get the -- I mean, do it 3 all online now? Isn't there -- I mean, seems like you can go 4 through the U.S. Postal Service. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what the Post Office 6 is advertising. 7 MS. UECKER: Well, not -- not when you use as much 8 mail as we do. You still have to send -- I mean, you can get 9 the postage, yeah. You can load your meter online, but you 10 still got to send the letter through there; it puts the little 11 stamp on it, yeah. And I asked the postman again, oh, a 12 couple of months ago about the mail, and he says, "Well, the 13 Tax Office has -- there's a couple of times when she has a 14 whole lot more mail, but on the average, your office receives 15 and disburses more mail than any other office on the average." 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A lot of your stuff is 17 either registered or certified? 18 MS. UECKER: Yes. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: As far as consolidating three 20 offices into one, I -- I can't see it in my mind. Would you 21 be taking three smaller machines, eliminating them, and 22 purchasing a large machine? 23 MS. UECKER: A joint -- yeah. And the cost of that 24 is -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And a new employee probably, 7-28-06 bwk 68 1 or at least a half an employee. I don't see what the 2 difference is. I don't see -- 3 MS. UECKER: That's why I hesitate to say that, 4 yeah, I think it would be an advantage, because, you know, 5 I -- to move the postage machine from my office would not 6 justify me, you know, eliminating a staff person. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I wasn't going in that 8 direction. 9 MS. UECKER: I know, but I'm just kind of using that 10 as a gauge. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's worth considering, 12 though. 13 MS. UECKER: That's coming, right? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Somebody else may have been 15 going in that direction, but I wasn't going in that direction. 16 MR. TOMLINSON: There are a lot of offices that use 17 stamps, you know. A centralized -- a centralized place to 18 take care of those offices -- 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Commissioners Court is one 20 of those backwards offices that still uses stamps. 21 MS. UECKER: You know, and I have made -- 22 MR. TOMLINSON: So that might be -- there might be 23 some savings there if you had -- already had an employee, and 24 that was the additional duties for that employee. I don't 25 think you'd save any material amount, but -- 7-28-06 bwk 69 1 MS. UECKER: I have made this offer to a couple of 2 offices, and the Mediation Center is doing this. Those 3 postage machines will -- I think they will register up to six 4 accounts, and she comes over and uses our postage machine and 5 enters it on Account 3, and then every couple of months, I 6 send her a bill for postage. It's registered on Account 3. I 7 could do it for you. I could do it for the Auditor, you know. 8 If you have to run to the post office and buy stamps, don't do 9 that. I mean, I can set you up an account on our postage 10 machine. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- go ahead, Judge. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm curious as to -- these machines 13 are going to be nonfunctional shortly? 14 MS. UECKER: It's digital -- it's something about 15 the digital versus -- I don't know. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Programmed obsolescence, huh? 17 MS. UECKER: Mm-hmm, yeah. It's obsolete. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Pitney Bowes strikes again. 19 MS. UECKER: Well, Pitney Bowes is not very happy 20 with me, because I switched over to Neopost because it was 21 less -- less money, and I think they thought they had a 22 monopoly here. So, I'm kind of the -- the black cloud over 23 the courthouse right now 'cause I switched over to Neopost. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm glad to know there's a 25 competitor. 7-28-06 bwk 70 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, competition in mail 2 is working. The Hunt Post Office is trying to sell stamps. 3 They let you know, "We want your business; come in here and 4 buy postage from us." So, it's apparently taking hold. They 5 -- I think the Postmasters are getting paid based on their 6 unit's performance. If sales are going down, it hurts them. 7 No, it's not that they're paid; they justify their existence 8 based on their unit's performance. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think, you know, I like 10 Bill's idea, at least to explore about a centralized mail 11 room. Obviously, you get to a point that it does make sense. 12 I don't know if we're there or not, but I think that we really 13 need to wait. You know, I'd like to get Odyssey up and 14 running, and then next year at this time really do a -- I 15 mean, and kind of announce this to all the departments, if -- 16 you know, how much time do passports take? How much time does 17 mail take you? Okay, if we take these two things, is that a 18 person? Or -- you know, and look at it and see if we could 19 start, you know, going in that direction and maybe, you know, 20 be able to reduce two staff and add one, so you have a net 21 gain of one. But I think, really, until we get Odyssey up and 22 running, I think trying to do -- 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Staffing-wise, it really is 24 -- it's futile. 25 MS. UECKER: Yeah, I was going -- 7-28-06 bwk 71 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just as a general question 2 about -- going back to passports for just a second, how much 3 time does it take one clerk to process one passport? 4 MS. UECKER: I don't know, because they all do 5 several a day. And then, at the end of the day, they have to 6 complete a form and certify their own passports. And then -- 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think you answered my 8 question, the first thing you said. You have several clerks 9 who do it. 10 MS. UECKER: They all do it, including me. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, you can have two or 12 three people processing out passports at the same time, 13 whereas we used to be a bottleneck of one person doing it. 14 MS. UECKER: Right. Right. I mean, I've -- I've 15 seen times when the back -- the front -- behind the counter or 16 in front of the counter, all the customers were passport 17 customers, especially in the early spring when they're all 18 trying to get their passports. Now, effective January -- I 19 think it's the 7th of '07, if you leave by -- if you leave the 20 country by air or water or ship, you're going to have to have 21 a passport. You can still cross the border into Mexico or 22 Canada with your birth certificate, but if you fly or swim, 23 you have to have a passport. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If you fly or swim? 25 MS. UECKER: Or go by water, or boat. 7-28-06 bwk 72 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You might get your passport 2 a little damp if you swim. 3 MS. UECKER: Yeah. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Any predictions about the 5 electronic mail for the future? See, I know people now who 6 don't have land-line telephones, and I know people who don't 7 buy stamps. They pay all their bills online. 8 MS. UECKER: You mean electronic filing? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Is -- is the internet going to have 10 some beneficial impact on the way we do our business in the 11 county government? 12 MS. UECKER: Eventually, for the courts, it will. 13 As a matter of fact, I talked to Jake Stein from Texas Online 14 last week, and, of course, there -- he's a salesman, you know. 15 He's trying to sell eFiling, if that's what you're talking 16 about. But -- and I've told Judge Tinley this, too; that 17 until -- right now, eFiling is e-mailing a document to the 18 clerk. The clerk still has to print it out, still has to put 19 it in the file, still has to file-stamp it, has to go back to 20 Odyssey, do all the data entry. And I've just flat told him 21 I'm not doing it until, when I accept that document, it enters 22 itself in Odyssey and it populates its data fields. That's 23 when -- when I'm going to take a serious look. But unless -- 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's going to be a 25 breakthrough. 7-28-06 bwk 73 1 MS. UECKER: I'm sorry, what? 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That is going to be a 3 breakthrough. 4 MS. UECKER: That will be a breakthrough. Well, of 5 course, there is -- they tell you it -- yeah, that's what it's 6 doing, but if you call a county like El Paso County, where 7 they're doing it, he goes, "No, you still have to print it out 8 and you still have to do all this stuff." So, I'm -- "Okay, 9 thank you. That's all I wanted to know." 10 JUDGE TINLEY: How many counties are there that are 11 in the pilot project for eFiling now that's been going on for, 12 what, about two years now? 13 MS. UECKER: Yeah. I think there's six; Bexar 14 County, Dallas County. I think the small counties are maybe 15 Bell -- I'm not sure who they are, but I think there's five or 16 six there. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: That's been going on, what, two to 18 three years now? 19 MS. UECKER: Right, yeah. 20 MR. TROLINGER: And it is available on Odyssey for 21 civil right now. I think Dallas is one of the users of that, 22 where they've taken electronic filing through Odyssey. 23 MS. UECKER: But it's still not populating the data 24 fields. 25 MR. TROLINGER: Well, it supposedly files it, and -- 7-28-06 bwk 74 1 but you still have to create paper. That's the issue you've 2 got. 3 MS. UECKER: Yeah. It takes the image of it and it 4 moves it over into that case file, but it's still not adding 5 it as an event and all the stuff that's required to do the 6 data field stuff. But where I was going with the postage -- 7 was it postage? On the machine, I had -- I had -- in Capital 8 Outlay, I had asked for 54. A thousand of that was for the 9 purchase of a new postage machine that was going to have to 10 happen, but you still have to buy the meter or lease it. You 11 still have to lease the meter. You still have to lease -- I 12 do a maintenance agreement with them. It's required. Plus 13 the postage increase insurance on it, you know, that says when 14 the postage increases, they have to send you a chip, you know, 15 and that's all included in that cost. When I looked at all of 16 that, it was going to be less costly to just do a lease every 17 month that would cover everything, because they are -- their 18 projected life is 63 months on a postage machine, and the 19 meter -- I mean, the meter especially is what goes out. 20 But -- and the lease for the whole thing is for 63 months. 21 So, that's -- that was going to be less over the 63-month 22 period, so I'm leasing. So, that's why I put 50 -- 24, but 23 probably -- no, it's actually not; it's going to be $2,200 for 24 the lease payments that I moved up to Postage. So, if we 25 could move that to 17,2 and deduct the 3,000 from the Capital 7-28-06 bwk 75 1 Outlay, it's still a little less. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You just lost me. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: 17,200 or 17,020? 4 MS. UECKER: 17,200 in Postage, and move -- and 5 change Capital Outlay from 54 to 24. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: $600 gain right there. 7 MS. UECKER: And you also had a question on -- let's 8 see. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Software. 10 MS. UECKER: Software Maintenance. You did not put 11 an amount in there. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: That's correct. I tell you what 13 confused me there. It shows year-to-date actual, 11,6. 14 Projected year-end, 77. 15 MS. UECKER: Hey. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Can you make that one out for me? 17 MS. UECKER: No. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the new Odyssey 20 system. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: And it's going to cost you 15,5 next 22 year for your Odyssey and your other systems that you've got 23 in place? I just -- 24 MS. UECKER: I don't know of any change. John? 25 MR. TROLINGER: I've got it all summarized in a 7-28-06 bwk 76 1 table that I gave the Commissioners. 2 MS. UECKER: They haven't notified me that it's 3 going to be any less or more. 4 MR. TROLINGER: It's broken down. It's not one 5 total number for your office. That's everything I have. 6 MS. UECKER: Right. But the total comes to 7 15,000 -- see, one of them did go up a little bit, and I think 8 it was Criminal Case Management, and that's why the difference 9 between the 15,347 and the 15,548. 10 MR. TROLINGER: I'm proposing we move maintenance -- 11 MS. UECKER: For child support. Okay, so what's the 12 amount now? 13 MR. TROLINGER: You'll have to -- 14 MS. UECKER: What's 637 times -- I don't know. That 15 might be premature, John. 16 MR. TROLINGER: Right. We'll have to see once we 17 get -- 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's revisit that issue, if we 19 could. 20 MS. UECKER: Which one? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there a way, as those amounts are 22 paid, that you can plug them into the -- charge them against 23 that department, but have them controlled by the I.T. 24 department, all this software maintenance stuff? 25 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, I need to budget where I 7-28-06 bwk 77 1 charge them. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, what I'm thinking is we budget 3 them as a composite under the I.T. Department. 4 MR. TOMLINSON: No, 'cause I'd have to do a budget 5 amendment every time we pay a bill. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: And then, when you move it over, you 7 got to charge it? Okay. 8 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Nice try. 10 MS. UECKER: Probably next year, we'll be able to 11 move -- whatever 700 times 4 is -- 2,800 because of the child 12 support, but that may be a little bit premature this year, I 13 think. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tommy, going back to that, I 15 mean, is it -- I mean, we've talked about if there was some 16 way that would work. But on some of these items, could -- if 17 we moved all of Software Maintenance to -- there's another 18 item we were looking at doing at the same time. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Telephone. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Telephone. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: And Capital Outlay for computer 22 equipment. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All that to I.T., and then at 24 the end of the budget year, or monthly, just -- I mean, even 25 though it may not be exactly the amount, just attribute 7-28-06 bwk 78 1 certain percentages to the departments? 'Cause I think 2 there's a real -- I mean, there's a reason to do -- you know, 3 the way we're doing it is to keep track of it by department, 4 from the the accounting, whatever it is, to keep track of all 5 that stuff. But there's a -- trying to keep track of really 6 what the County's spending on some of these items, it would be 7 a lot easier to put it in one lump sum and put it in one 8 budget. 9 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, my accounting system -- I can 10 print out -- I'll give you a printout of the total cost on 11 every line item, just by itself. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: So, as long as we have the same line 13 item number, 406 or 509 or whatever, and we keep that uniform 14 for software maintenance, -- 15 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: -- you can print out -- 17 MR. TOMLINSON: You can print -- 18 JUDGE TINLEY: -- that line item, and it will show 19 by department the amount, and it will give us that total down 20 at the bottom. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, you can do that for the 22 I.T. Department in one line. You're showing software; you get 23 a break-out of what it is by department. Licenses, and a 24 break-out by department. Maintenance, and a break-out by 25 department. That way we know what what our entire technology 7-28-06 bwk 79 1 budget's going to be. 2 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, my issue with -- I'll give you 3 an example. If we want to calculate what it costs to maintain 4 a prisoner in our jail, if we were going to contract with the 5 feds or with the state to hold prisoners, I don't want to have 6 to go to four different budgets to figure out what the total 7 cost is. And I think there is some merit in determining what 8 the functional cost is because of those kinds of issues. And, 9 I mean, I -- several years ago, we pulled the maintenance of 10 the jail out of the jail's budget and formed a new one. I 11 mean, I was opposed to that at that time. But -- but I know I 12 have to go to that budget and add that budget to the jail's 13 budget to calculate the cost of keeping prisoners. That's the 14 reason that I -- I'm trying to keep the total cost of 15 departments in that budget. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess, then, the way to do 17 both is just to have -- 18 MR. TOMLINSON: If you want to know how much we 19 spend on -- on software maintenance, my new accounting system 20 will -- I can do that in 10 minutes. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess the -- what I'm trying 22 to get at is, a lot of these items, the elected officials have 23 really no input into it. I mean, it's not -- they don't know 24 what those numbers are. 25 JUDGE ELLIOTT: That's right. 7-28-06 bwk 80 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that's why -- I don't -- I 2 have no problem with them being listed in Linda's budget, but 3 I.T. needs to get a master print on it at the beginning of the 4 budget process, saying, "Here they are." They fill in the 5 number. One person gives it to you, and then -- 6 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't have a problem with that. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- it goes back out to all the 8 accounts. 9 MS. UECKER: Just like insurance. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 'Cause -- yeah. 'Cause, I mean, 11 they have no -- we're wasting everyone's time having to ask 12 elected officials to go into Software Maintenance, 'cause 13 they're going to have to go to either you or I.T. 14 MS. UECKER: I would just -- 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Same thing applies to 16 licensing. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, a lot of this stuff. A 18 lot of items on their budgets are not a discretional type 19 item; it's set by another department almost. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Tommy, do we have a uniform listing 21 of line items? We've got that in place now? 22 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, 562, Computer Software, 7-28-06 bwk 81 1 is the same in every department? 2 MR. TOMLINSON: That's right. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Today you could total 562? 4 MR. TOMLINSON: Mm-hmm. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or 563. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's -- 7 MS. UECKER: No, it's actually 563, Software 8 Maintenance. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well -- 10 MS. UECKER: That's the big item. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: Like, all the telephone is 420 in 13 every department. The -- the object number, what we call it, 14 is the same for the telephone for every department. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: If you want to know what 16 something's costing you, we've got the capacity today to tell 17 you that? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. I'm just more -- on the 19 budget side of it, it's -- I don't -- I think it's John's 20 responsibility, more than Linda's responsibility, what a lot 21 of these numbers are. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I can remember B.T., which is 23 "before Tommy" -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Before Tommy? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- all of us could sit down 7-28-06 bwk 82 1 and look at this stuff; you wouldn't have a clue of where what 2 was, or where the money was and how much was there. It was 3 incredible, that amount of things lumped together. And it 4 hasn't been that long ago. 5 MR. TOMLINSON: Fifteen years. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The -- all the numbers, oh, 7 it was absolutely incredible. I don't know how they did that. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: When I first got on the Court, 9 there was no rhyme or reason to it. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We came a long way. We don't 12 want to undo that; Tommy worked real hard to get that 13 standardized. It's just some of these numbers, now that we 14 have an I.T. person, I think he needs to be responsible next 15 budget year to fill out a lot of these things. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree 100 percent. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So Linda doesn't have to mess 18 with it, and all the other departments don't have to mess with 19 it. 20 MS. UECKER: I'd just as soon not have to look at 21 them every time if I, all the same, have to keep a record of 22 all of them, approve them all. I mean, that will keep John 23 out of the bar. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 25 MS. UECKER: Off the street. 7-28-06 bwk 83 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And we can probably get another 2 person out of Linda. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You might want to ask what 5 Letz just said. 6 MS. UECKER: I'm sorry, what? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I said, and we can probably get 8 another staff member out of your department. 9 MS. UECKER: Yeah, probably so. That would be me. 10 (Laughter.) 11 MR. TROLINGER: But I do -- 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Better. We're chopping from the top. 13 MR. TROLINGER: I do agree with keeping a -- a track 14 of, you know, how much we're spending county-wide on software, 15 on computers, on the computer side on the -- where it ends up 16 in the Capital Outlay budget per line item. It does make it 17 difficult for me to get a deal purchasing computers, and it 18 would be advantageous to let me order and be authorized to 19 order equipment for the departments county-wide. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think that can be done 21 at the end of the budget -- end of budget. Tommy can print 22 out all the computer or all of the capital outlay items with 23 computers, and, I mean, give it to you in one number. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: He can give us the total dollar 25 value, the volume, but I'm not sure he's going to know whether 7-28-06 bwk 84 1 it's going to be for computers or printers or -- 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, Mr. T. would have 3 those. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: -- vacuum cleaners or whatever. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He'd have the master list; 6 everybody goes through him. If you need a new workstation -- 7 MS. UECKER: Which we're basically doing anyway. 8 MR. TOMLINSON: We're doing that now. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But what can happen there -- 10 pretty simply, I think -- is to have all purchases that go 11 through the I.T. Department on a separate line item -- 12 separate capital line item. That way, Tommy can just run that 13 number. Here, John, you figure out how to get that. And then 14 chairs and desks go under a separate capital outlay item. We 15 could have two capital outlay items. I don't know if the 16 computers are capital outlay. Aren't they less than that 17 number? We keep track of them here as capital -- 18 MR. TROLINGER: Computer hardware number right now, 19 or line item. 20 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, it's not any more. 21 MR. TROLINGER: Oh. 22 MR. TOMLINSON: I deleted those. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, anyway, there's a way to 24 keep track of it; a way to, hopefully -- John, you need to 25 write this down so we have this discussion next June, before 7-28-06 bwk 85 1 we start the budget. 2 MS. UECKER: Going back to my budget, there's a 3 couple of other things I wanted just to mention. On the 4 machine repair, you reduced that to 500. Which, yeah, I'd 5 like for that to be enough, but until we get this project 6 complete, I'm still going to have, you know, some expense on 7 that, including the two big printers that I have. They're -- 8 they're old, but they're still working. But -- and there's 9 minor things that can be repaired on those. This year, 10 looking at it, yeah, they've been -- everything's been real 11 good and I haven't had to spend any money. Year before, I 12 did. But I'm not sure that 500 is going to be enough. Could 13 we up that to 750, anyway? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, 750. 15 MS. UECKER: The other thing I was going to mention 16 earlier in my opening statement is that I would like to have 17 the 5,000 in the part-time budget again like I have had, 18 because I may use that to hire someone to come in next -- next 19 year and help Simona with the appeals, or just do appeals. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. You got two items up there, 21 and, you know, those are personnel items; Part-Time 5,000, and 22 Overtime 1,000. 23 MS. UECKER: Yeah. And I went way over my overtime 24 budget this year, because during that Odyssey transition, I 25 mean, everybody -- I just kind of gave everybody a blank -- 7-28-06 bwk 86 1 for about three weeks there, just blank approval to, you know, 2 work overtime if you want to. And, you know, we'll just have 3 to come up with the money somewhere. And they did. Weekends, 4 nights. I mean, I don't have that -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: You recently had to do a budget 6 amendment on that, if I recall. 7 MS. UECKER: Right. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Didn't you? 9 MS. UECKER: I did. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. And it's not reflected here. 11 So -- 12 MS. UECKER: Yeah. And I've even got, like I told 13 you earlier, a couple of employees that, you know, I've asked 14 them, "You didn't turn in your either comp time or overtime." 15 "Well, no, I'm not going to do that. You know, I just want to 16 get it done." 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, you leave the 1,000 in 18 there? Is that what is being said here? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: That's what she's asking, yeah. She 20 had to transfer 600. She had a budget of 500; she transferred 21 600 to cover. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That was Odyssey-related? 23 MS. UECKER: Yes. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And we won't have that next 25 year, though, right? Or will we? 7-28-06 bwk 87 1 MS. UECKER: I hope not. You have to remember, I'm 2 not asking for more staff. I'm hoping that that overtime 3 budget will show that I have used nothing next year. And -- 4 you know. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I wrote 1,000 down. 6 MS. UECKER: I'm flexible on that. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How about leaving you the 8 part-time and taking out the overtime? 9 MS. UECKER: Well, -- 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or putting -- 11 MS. UECKER: -- except that a part-time person is 12 not going to help me when someone has to work overtime. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. 14 MS. UECKER: I mean, if it's something that I can 15 do, like if we're having court, if I can -- most of the time, 16 I try to stay -- I try to be the one to stay overtime so I 17 don't have to -- you know, 'cause it doesn't mean any more 18 money or less to me. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. All right. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where did we finally end up 21 on Software Maintenance? 15,548? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 23 MS. UECKER: 15,548. And I guess that's everything 24 that I have on that, unless you have some questions. Law 25 Library, that's pretty much the same. What's -- 7-28-06 bwk 88 1 JUDGE TINLEY: On your jury -- 2 MS. UECKER: Jury? Yeah, jury. I had 9,800 in 3 there in Operating Supplies. That does include jury cards. 4 That fluctuates from year to year, 'cause some years I don't 5 have to buy jury cards. I just placed an order for some more. 6 But that also included the American Jury Project, which was a 7 laptop and two video projectors for the -- two screens that 8 come down. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that included in the the 98? 10 MS. UECKER: Yes. Yes. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, that's why it jumped. 12 MS. UECKER: Well, see, you moved the 3,800 that I 13 had asked down to Capital Outlay, per I.T. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 15 MS. UECKER: And reduced that back to 53. That's 16 fine. I just didn't know if you wanted it in -- I put it up 17 there because there was no Capital Outlay line item in that 18 budget. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: So, what should the 98 be? 20 MS. UECKER: 53. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: And the capital outlay added to that 22 of 38. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Got you. 24 MS. UECKER: Is 38. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Capital outlay would be a 7-28-06 bwk 89 1 570. 2 MS. UECKER: 570. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Line 570. 4 MS. UECKER: And on the -- okay. Yeah, we've 5 already talked about that. On the District Court, the one -- 6 the Records Management that's just for my office, the one 7 that's 63, I had 1,000 in there, but we'll -- I'll get some 8 new figures on that for the next... And das ist alles. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Das gut. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Can you think of anywhere 11 in county government that we have a potential source of 12 revenue that we're not capitalizing on? Is there any -- 13 anyplace, anywhere? Not just -- I'm not just talking about 14 your shop, that you can think of that we could, if we chose, 15 be charging fees for certain services or licenses, or -- 16 MS. UECKER: Gosh, I'd have to think about that one. 17 I'm not prepared for that right off the top of my head. I'm 18 sure there is, but I'd have to think about it. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How many years have you been 20 District Clerk? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Glad you didn't ask her how old she 22 is. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 28. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 28? 25 MS. UECKER: Since 1987. 7-28-06 bwk 90 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: '87? 2 MS. UECKER: And I've been here 39 years. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That may be a record. 4 MS. UECKER: I think it is. 5 MR. TROLINGER: I thought you were only 38 years 6 old. 7 MS. UECKER: I am, shhh. I was two. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, 20 years next year. Are we 9 going to throw you a party for 20 years? 10 MS. UECKER: Heck, yeah. That's what the Bible 11 says. Where two are or more are gathered, it's a party. 12 (Laughter.) 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the south Texas 14 version. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. Are we having fun 16 here yet? 17 MS. UECKER: Yeah. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner, in response to your 19 question, I can think of one instance. I'm sure there are 20 others. In the Tax Assessor's office, on vehicle 21 registration, I think we can charge $1.20 or something for a 22 child safety fee. But, of course, we got to spend that money 23 for a very specific purpose. You know, you buy child seats or 24 something; I don't know what we do with it. But that's the 25 only one off the top of my head I can think of. 7-28-06 bwk 91 1 MS. UECKER: I know that in my office, all the fees 2 that are set by the Commissioners Court are -- I've asked for 3 the maximum. I've got those maxed out. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Is there anything you do we 5 can charge the City for? 6 MS. UECKER: I can charge them to get in the office, 7 to walk through the door. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else on this one? Let's 9 move to J.P's. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Linda, quickly, I do appreciate 11 you sending the Attorney General opinions and keeping up with 12 that. I really do. Keep that up. I mean, I -- 13 MS. UECKER: I was going to ask you if you read 14 them. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I read them if I think they're 16 applicable. Some of them I don't, but -- 17 MS. UECKER: Do you want me to keep doing that? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Please. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 20 MS. UECKER: Do you also want the legislative stuff 21 that goes -- 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I appreciate it also. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 24 MS. UECKER: Okay. You're welcome. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: There'll be a little 7-28-06 bwk 92 1 something extra in your paycheck. 2 MS. UECKER: Oh, thank you. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Absence of a pink slip, right? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't know that we have 5 authority for that one. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Shhh. 7 MS. UECKER: I just can't figure out why we're the 8 only county that doesn't pay longevity for elected officials. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a good question. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: 'Cause we haven't had a 11 County Judge re-elected since 1960-something. 12 JUDGE ELLIOTT: This is the first one in 20 years. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: He's got to make it through 14 November. 15 MS. UECKER: I mean, I can bring that up, 'cause, 16 you know -- 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That may be a good reason, 18 Dave. 19 MS. UECKER: Twenty years as District Clerk. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Maybe we figure the cost to support 21 you would be so great that we couldn't stand it. 22 MS. UECKER: But I deserve it. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: That's not the issue. 24 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Linda, they would pay what you 25 deserve, but there is a minimum wage law. (Laughter.) 7-28-06 bwk 93 1 MS. UECKER: As Buster says, I am the state 2 champion, you know. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: State champion. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. J.P. 1. Actually, probably 5 only one number there that is an issue. 6 JUDGE ELLIOTT: How about that? Now, the District 7 Clerk came up and said that she was doing all these things, 8 going to the court and out doing criminal stuff, and stuff. I 9 just wanted y'all to know for the record that I have not been 10 out doing criminal stuff like the District Clerk. Okay, yeah. 11 Everything looks like it was in line except the telephone 12 expense, and -- 13 JUDGE TINLEY: You see where I got the figure I did? 14 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Yeah, you got that from the 15 annualized last year actual. And -- and I just haven't put in 16 a -- last year, I didn't do that. And I haven't done it 17 really yet this year, used a -- my cell phone expenses. I 18 think the other J.P.'s -- you know, the people that put the 19 cell phone as part of telephone expense since we have to have 20 one when we're going out doing things. And I just haven't -- 21 I've just used my personal cell phone, haven't billed the 22 County any money for that. So, in the event that I get a -- 23 behind a plan that I can separate my personal expense out from 24 the business expense, or like at least pay the base rate or 25 something, I would like to have some leeway in there. That's 7-28-06 bwk 94 1 why I cut it from the -- let's see, the budgeted amount used 2 to be 850, and I think I brought it down to seven. But that's 3 up to you. I'm not going to haggle over a couple hundred 4 dollars, but I would like, in case -- I would like to be 5 somewhat compensated for having to use a cell phone. But I 6 have one anyway, so -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I think the County 8 should pay for your county usage of a cell phone, whether it's 9 $200 or $7.50. 10 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think if you get to the 12 point where we can consolidate all these like we talked to 13 Mr. Trolinger about, that would take care of your problem. 14 JUDGE ELLIOTT: So, anyway, that's why I reduced it 15 from 850; I'm not going to use it. From 850, I brought it 16 down to seven. If I didn't use it this next year, I'd bring 17 it down again. But I thought I'd step it down rather than 18 just jump it down to what was used the prior year. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think when you get into the 20 problem of cell phones, what Vance is saying is that you -- 21 it's hard to separate personal versus county. And, you know, 22 most of them, you get so many minutes and you get a bill, and 23 how do you divide it out? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 25 JUDGE ELLIOTT: I think what some of the other 7-28-06 bwk 95 1 elected officials are doing is just charging the base rate -- 2 like, minimum of whatever minutes to have a phone; maybe $40 a 3 month or something like that. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's reasonable. 5 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Thirty or something like that. And 6 I haven't even done that, and so I was trying to leave some 7 money there to start figuring out a way where I can actually 8 bill at least the base rate for it. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, put 700 in there? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. It's certainly up to the 11 Court. I got no problem with it. I understand where he's 12 coming from. I think probably it might simplify things if the 13 Court were to adopt a policy -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: -- for elected officials, department 16 heads who utilize -- don't have a separate cell phone on 17 the -- on the County's tab, that use their own cell phone, of 18 a flat fee or the base rate or whatever that may be. I think 19 that would greatly simplify it for a lot of purposes. Number 20 one is reimburse. Number two is budgeting purposes, all 21 purposes. 22 JUDGE ELLIOTT: I think you're right. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: There are a lot of counties that -- 24 that have a county-wide cell phone allowance, and they come up 25 with a schedule based on historical use by department. And 7-28-06 bwk 96 1 then -- and then they give everybody that has a need for a 2 cell phone a cell phone allowance, just like you would if you 3 were -- you travel. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Can you get one of those schedules? 5 Let's don't reinvent the wheel if we don't have to. We'll 6 take a look at it. 7 MR. TOMLINSON: Sure. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, the other one is, for 9 example, Five Star -- the basic plan of Five Star is 39 bucks, 10 isn't it? 11 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Whatever -- I don't know. But 12 that's a good example, whatever the base rate is. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the basic plan. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What do they base that number 15 on, though? You say prior usage? 16 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, they -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How do you find that? 18 MR. TOMLINSON: Some historical information about 19 how many minutes different users typically use. And, so, they 20 developed a schedule that says that if this Individual "X" 21 uses a cell phone on an average of this many minutes, and they 22 -- then they allow so many per month to that individual. And 23 what that does, I -- and for my part, it keeps us from having 24 to distinguish between personal use and -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 7-28-06 bwk 97 1 MR. TOMLINSON: -- and business use. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: And that kind of puts us in a 4 position of -- of being able -- of having to determine those 5 issues, and I would rather get out of that if we can. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. We need to figure out a flat 7 rate schedule, be it a historical use or just coming up with 8 an arbitrary number. In this particular office, there's a 9 great deal of cell phone usage; this one, there's not much. 10 And so you come up with a flat rate schedule, or base rate, or 11 -- but some policy. Let's figure out a base rate. A base 12 rate and 500 minutes, something like that. Talk to three or 13 four companies that use it, average that, and that's it. 14 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Right. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a good plan. I can't 16 imagine going back and researching and trying to figure up how 17 much usage -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's unnecessary. 19 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Some departments may use -- you 20 know, like, law enforcement may use a higher number of 21 minutes. As far as the J.P.'s, I mean, whatever the base 22 minimum plan would be would be enough. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. I think Rusty's different 24 on all things. 25 JUDGE ELLIOTT: If $40 gives you 300 minutes or 7-28-06 bwk 98 1 whatever, that would be plenty. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Going to figure out the base 3 rate, the number of minutes for companies that pretty much 4 serve this area, and take an average and make it a lot 5 simpler. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The only time I see Letz 7 without a phone in his ear is in here. I mean, you can blow 8 your horn at him, run at him on the street; he doesn't know 9 you're there. 10 JUDGE ELLIOTT: That's the way most drivers are when 11 they got a cell phone in their ear. All right. That's -- so 12 that's the only issue, really. We have just been continually 13 dropping our -- decreasing our operating budget over the 14 years. If you look at just the numbers that we plugged in 15 that didn't involve insurance and salaries and things like 16 that, the '03-'04 was about 8,400. The '04-'05 came out to 17 about 7,400. That included the software stuff. And last 18 year -- or this year, we're looking at about $4,800. We've 19 cut that in half. And what we're doing, obviously, is we're 20 using the court technology fee that is collected from traffic 21 fines. That goes into a separate account. It's supposed to 22 be used for technology for justices of the peace, and so we're 23 using those. We've been using those funds to take care of 24 these other software expenses associated with the Justice of 25 the Peace offices. Which obviously brings me to the same 7-28-06 bwk 99 1 question and problem that we've discussed earlier, and that's 2 on the technology -- or budget for capital or technology 3 expenses, I put in 3,500. Now, the only way I knew what to 4 plug in or a number was because when Software Group promoted 5 this program and said this is what it would be to bring these 6 J.P.'s up to -- up to snuff with this new system, and $1,000 7 in training and all these other things, that the allocation 8 will be about $3,500 per office. Quite frankly, I have no 9 clue what it is with Odyssey. I didn't have any input in what 10 it was. I don't know how much it would cost -- it costs my 11 office to have Odyssey. So, other than what they've given me 12 two years ago, I don't know. 13 MR. TROLINGER: Software maintenance did not change. 14 JUDGE ELLIOTT: So, 3,500 bucks evidently is the 15 number. 16 MR. TROLINGER: Software maintenance went down a 17 little bit per office since J.P. 4 came online. 18 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You get that number, John? 20 MR. TROLINGER: The actual amount? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. And the same for each of 22 the four J.P.'s? 23 MR. TROLINGER: It's the same for each. 24 JUDGE ELLIOTT: I'm going by a memo that we had when 25 they were bringing on J.P. 4. 7-28-06 bwk 100 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tommy, are you going to split 2 that technology fund into four -- each J.P.? Or just charge 3 it back -- 4 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- afterwards, or don't care? 6 MR. TOMLINSON: It's all lumped together. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, I guess from the 8 standpoint J.P.'s all get lumped together. 9 MR. TOMLINSON: I mean under the technology fund, 10 it's all -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: -- all one fund. And so it's kind 13 of like the records management. One of them can use it all, 14 or they can agree to -- to use their share. 15 MR. TROLINGER: It's $2,900 per office. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: 2,900? 17 MR. TROLINGER: Now, the additional $1,000 that the 18 Judge mentioned, on-site training is $1,000 a day, and -- 19 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Already taken care of. 20 MR. TROLINGER: -- if we decide to come on-site next 21 year for some major upgrade, and we want Software Group to 22 come on-site. 23 JUDGE ELLIOTT: That number is 29 what? 24 MR. TROLINGER: 2,900. I rounded it off. 25 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Because -- we need to know that, 7-28-06 bwk 101 1 because that gives us an idea what we have left in that 2 technology fund for other things. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, we'll just say 2,900 for 4 each of the J.P.'s, so 2,900 times four is coming out of that 5 fund this year. 6 (Discussion off the record.) 7 JUDGE ELLIOTT: All right. And just -- just as an 8 overview, to let the Commissioners Court know, like I said, we 9 have been doing more with less operating budget money every 10 year. We've been trimming it a little bit. It's been going 11 down just a little bit every year. And our -- the workload 12 and income, which best way to kind of -- one way of figuring 13 out how busy we are, what we're doing, is how much money we're 14 handling, bringing in, because every -- just about everything 15 we do is associated with cost, with the exception of failing 16 to attend school. We don't have the students pay court costs, 17 because they generally don't have the money, and we -- it 18 makes it difficult to require the parents. They usually do 19 community service for those court costs. But in 2003, J.P. 1 20 brought in 109,000. The next year, 141,000. The next year -- 21 last year -- 184,000. And just through June of this year, 22 over 100,000 -- 106,000. So -- 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Profit center. 24 JUDGE ELLIOTT: We've been very busy. And our 25 workload has continued to increase, and we've done more with 7-28-06 bwk 102 1 less operating budget every year for the last three years. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You have one of the -- 3 historically, your office is not as big a generator because of 4 its geography of the interstate. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: 3 and 4 are the big ones, aren't 6 they? 7 JUDGE ELLIOTT: 3 and 4 have typically always been 8 the largest generators of revenue. But it just depends on 9 what's going on out there. That's why you see, you know, 10 we -- like I say, three years ago, in 2003, we brought in 109, 11 and last year we were at 184. Now, what -- but the problem 12 is, what that might mean to the County is, because there's an 13 increase in 1, there might have been a decrease in 4 or 3. 14 You see, it just depends on where they move around. But, 15 anyway... 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is number one, that's 18 it. Number one; that's the reason. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's move to Precinct 2. 20 JUDGE ELLIOTT: She's not here, so on her behalf, 21 I'd like to recommend a cut in salary. (Laughter.) 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're excused. You can 23 leave the room. 24 JUDGE ELLIOTT: One other thing, though, that 25 Commissioner Nichols -- Nicholson asked. You had mentioned a 7-28-06 bwk 103 1 while ago about what are we doing, or -- you know, and you 2 made a comment about, "What about the City?" You know, what 3 -- is there anything that's not being taken care of? And let 4 me express to the Commissioners Court something that's been a 5 little bit of a sore point with the J.P.'s for many years, and 6 something we've really not -- when we go to meetings and we 7 talk to other J.P.'s in other counties about how things work, 8 and the municipal judge in other counties -- for example, in 9 Kendall County, they will go out on the weekend, and one 10 weekend out of a month or so, and do their duty to set 11 magistration bail and bond. And so that means all the judges 12 are kind of working together to go to the jail on off times, 13 on weekends, and perform their duties. 14 That has never been the case with city of Kerrville. 15 I've done a little bit of research, too, on the aspect of just 16 how constitutionally is it proper that County elected 17 officials or people in the County ticket are doing work for 18 the municipal -- the City of Kerrville? For example, when a 19 person is arrested by the police department for public 20 intoxication -- or what happens a lot, they have had five 21 tickets and three failed-to-appears, and they never went to 22 their municipal court. They got arrested, they go out to the 23 jail; they've got three or four charges. They got three other 24 failed-to-appear charges, and we're sitting there going 25 through and -- and having to read them their rights, spend the 7-28-06 bwk 104 1 night in jail. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: And collect their dough. 3 JUDGE ELLIOTT: And the -- yeah, and cannot -- I 4 cannot collect the dough. The money for their fine, as well, 5 I can't even set their fine as I could legally if there was a 6 San Antonio warrant and they came up, I could actually set the 7 fine and everything for that case. But I can't do it in 8 Kerrville, because Kerrville is within Kerr County, and 9 there's a little bit of a stickler there. But the main thing, 10 what I want you to have a clear picture of, is that we're 11 performing judicial duties only for the city of Kerrville, in 12 the example I've given you, where they've got multiple traffic 13 offenses, and they have -- or a P.I., something that is a 14 municipal court issue. Now, the $30 or whatever it is that 15 the Sheriff bills for one-day incarceration, that is separate. 16 That's an incarceration jailing fee. What the judges are 17 doing is -- you know, it's totally separate of judicial duties 18 as a magistrate. And so, you know, there's a couple ways they 19 get around -- I mean, a couple ways they could do this. 20 Number one is, we would continue to do that, and we would -- 21 the County would bill for that service. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What about 300,000 a year, 23 something like that? 24 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Or, number two -- 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Got to look at it in terms 7-28-06 bwk 105 1 of capacity. 2 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Now, of course, the way I'd like to 3 resolve the issue would be to be appointed as associate 4 municipal judge, get compensation directly from the City to do 5 their work for them. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd rather us charge them 7 magistration fees. 8 JUDGE ELLIOTT: So -- but, anyway, that is -- that's 9 been a problem, because the municipal judge does not come out 10 and participate in that, and they do not compen -- the City 11 does not compensate the County for performing, really, what 12 the municipal judge should be coming out and doing. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What does the law say about 14 that? 15 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Well, the law says that -- well, I 16 can't take their plea and things of that nature. It is kind 17 of -- it's -- I've got mixed opinion on an Attorney General 18 opinion on that as far as setting bail or bond, or what 19 happens when the probable cause affidavit is not sufficient. 20 Dismiss it or not. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm just talking about the 22 basic premise of charging for magistration fees -- charging a 23 magistration fee. 24 JUDGE ELLIOTT: I know that in the past, there's 25 been a problem -- I know there's a problem with J.P.'s in the 7-28-06 bwk 106 1 past have tried to be compensated for performing that duty, 2 and I think that's been ruled unconstitutional or wrong. A.G. 3 opinion said that's not proper. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But can the County charge 5 the City, for example, a magistration fee for your services? 6 JUDGE ELLIOTT: I have no idea. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Judge, didn't you say that 8 it is different somehow in some other counties? 9 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Yeah, because what happens is the -- 10 the municipal judge participates by going out. And so, in 11 the -- in fairness, what the municipal judge is doing is, they 12 -- he may be also on -- he or she may be setting bail and bond 13 for County Court at Law when they're out there that day, so 14 it's a trade-off. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, they get in cycles; instead 16 of having a four-person cycle, it would be a five-person 17 cycle. 18 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Exactly. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: When I mentioned "collect their 20 money," I didn't mean that we -- 21 JUDGE ELLIOTT: I'm sorry. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: -- collected, per se, but what 23 happens in those cases where there's outstanding fines and 24 F.T.A.'s and that sort of stuff is, we end up being the 25 servicing agent for them to get their money. Because the rule 7-28-06 bwk 107 1 is, until there's a cashier's check or money order, certified 2 funds, cash, whatever, directly to the City, we don't let that 3 individual out of jail. That's essentially it. 4 JUDGE ELLIOTT: We typically will P.R. out municipal 5 Class C misdemeanors. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Could -- 7 JUDGE TINLEY: But if they're being held by virtue 8 of nonpayment of fines, they want the money normally. 9 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Very rarely ever do they have a 10 capias pro fine. Most of those are just for people that 11 didn't show up, so they have to be let out. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Same thing with D.P.S. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But you could -- I mean, 15 there's -- is there a requirement that you have to magistrate 16 them? 17 JUDGE ELLIOTT: No. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So you could just leave them in 19 jail. 20 JUDGE ELLIOTT: There's been times when I've 21 thought, you know, these are municipal things; I'm not going 22 to magistrate them. I could leave, and -- but that's the 23 problem. 24 MR. TROLINGER: The problem on that, we're only -- 25 we're -- the Sheriff's only charging $37 that first day, and 7-28-06 bwk 108 1 any additional days he does not bill. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We could bill them. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Can he? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: If they're strictly Class C 5 misdemeanors that were arrests of the city, I think he might 6 be able to for the additional days. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Any idea of what the volume 8 of this is? 9 JUDGE ELLIOTT: I did a case -- I mean, I see -- I 10 think it was closing in on about 15 percent, maybe 20. But -- 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Of your time? 12 JUDGE ELLIOTT: And I asked the other J.P.'s to look 13 into it, but I think it's going to be consistent, because -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 15 JUDGE ELLIOTT: -- it's just -- doesn't matter. We 16 rotate when we go out there anyway, so it'll be consistent 17 across the board, I would think. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Should be, yeah. 19 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Anyway, just an issue there to think 20 about. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Y'all want to try and go ahead and 22 blow through the rest of these J.P. ones before we quit? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Try. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. J.P. 2, the big question mark 25 I had was on telephone. Now, I was beating up on Vance for a 7-28-06 bwk 109 1 $700 phone bill, and here were looking at a $2,700 phone bill. 2 Judge Wright gives me numbers that tells me her office phone 3 lines, fax line, long distance, cell phone, pager -- well, she 4 turned in her pager. It comes out to almost $240 a month. 5 That's what she tells me it is, and that's where she comes up 6 with the number. And if you look at the historical use, 7 that's about what it runs out to. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So -- 9 JUDGE TINLEY: The option, I guess, is to tell her 10 not to have a phone. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We could hold her 12 incommunicado out there. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: There are big differences 14 in the phone bills of the four. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Common sense would say to me 16 that she should be similar, in the same ballpark -- in the 17 ballpark, at least. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Number -- J.P. 4 is 2,400. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Those are remote locations from the 20 courthouse. I think that probably has a lot to do with that. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: 1 and 3 are here; 2 and 4 are remote, 23 separate. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, she got two lines. I 25 don't know if Vance has two lines or not. Paying for two 7-28-06 bwk 110 1 lines plus a fax. 2 JUDGE ELLIOTT: We have two lines. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, you're tied into our system, 4 so -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But she should be tied into the 6 same -- I mean, her rate -- I know it's not the Sheriff's, but 7 it's the same building, I mean, as the Sheriff has. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: She says she's got two lines on her 9 office phone and her fax line. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Her calls don't come through 11 the Sheriff's main number. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, not through the number, but 13 it's in the same -- 14 MR. TROLINGER: It's the same telephone system. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, it's the same trunk 16 system. 17 JUDGE ELLIOTT: I do know that when I'm out there 18 and I have to borrow the phone -- and this is something you 19 might want to -- maybe John can help look into this. You 20 don't have to dial 9 on some of her lines to get out, which 21 would mean that there's a direct line, as opposed to being in 22 with the system, which might save a lot of money. 23 MR. TROLINGER: She's got a Center Point number, I 24 believe. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Got what? 7-28-06 bwk 111 1 MR. TROLINGER: A Center Point number, for any 2 callers from Center Point, so they don't have to dial long 3 distance. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Center Point is no longer long 5 distance, anyway. 6 MR. TROLINGER: What is the 634? Comfort? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 995 is Comfort. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That number, she doesn't 9 use. 10 MR. TROLINGER: At one time, they had another phone 11 number associated with J.P. 2 for the purpose of avoiding long 12 distance. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: She doesn't use the 634 14 number any more; I'm the only one that uses the 634 number 15 over there. 16 MR. TROLINGER: It's still present on the J.P. 4 -- 17 or J.P -- excuse me -- 2's phone system. I don't know if 18 that's a factor in the cost of her lines. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Only thing that would be -- 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You can -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Only thing, I see the cell 22 phone -- that rate probably is not going to be reimbursed at 23 that high of a rate under a new system. She has cell, 75 to 24 77. I don't know who wrote that. I guess that's her. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge wrote that. That's 7-28-06 bwk 112 1 the Judge's writing there. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, that's my writing. This is -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The sticky is gone. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, but she combines the cell 5 phone into that, and she has 233 -- or, no, it isn't. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Those are the numbers she gave me, 7 75, 77. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, there may be some reduction, 9 based on whatever the -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Policy. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- the policy is. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. If we adopt the 13 policy that we'll just provide a base rate, that will go down. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, that may, you know, have to 15 get adjusted there. Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm looking at all four of 17 them at the same time. I notice that 1, 2, and 3 telephone 18 bills are pretty much flat over the last three budgets, but 19 J.P. 4 is -- has doubled. Is Judge Ragsdale providing any 20 rationale for that? 21 MR. TROLINGER: That's part of the grant, I think. 22 The grant still paid -- I'm not sure, but anyway, there's a 23 cable modem. Has that been included in the telephone line 24 item? 25 MR. TOMLINSON: Probably so. 7-28-06 bwk 113 1 MR. TROLINGER: Okay, that's why. Their internet 2 connection and their connection to the county courthouse is 3 through a cable modem. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. And that's different 5 today than it was in 2003? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the capital outlay for 9 Judge Wright? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: She's asking for a desk and 11 a hutch, looks like. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, I see. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: A hutch. What's a hutch? I 15 thought that was in a dining room. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: No, that just -- 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Bookshelf. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Bookshelf? All right. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Rabbit hutch. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Change "hutch" to 22 "bookshelf." 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What would happen to her -- 24 her present desk? That is an excellent desk. What would 25 happen to it? 7-28-06 bwk 114 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't know. She hasn't 2 told me what she had in mind. I'm wondering whether it's a 3 replacement, or something added to it. I have to find out. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I didn't even think about 5 that. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll have to ask her. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Pretty significant amount for a desk 8 and a hutch in today's market, it seems to me. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, me too. I'll find 10 out. I'll put a big question mark there; I'll call her. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Shall we go to 3? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge Castillo? 13 MR. CASTILLO: Okay. I -- morning. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Morning. 15 MR. CASTILLO: I went by the budget from '05-'06. I 16 think the first thing that we could save some money is cut the 17 salary for the judge in half. (Laughter.) 18 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Because of inexperience coming in, 19 you certainly don't need to pay as much. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: I came across a book early this 21 morning at a garage sale that I'm going to make a permanent 22 part of the library here. I've already got one book in there. 23 It's the -- I don't remember whether it's Emily Post or Amy 24 Vanderbuilt, which is a book of etiquette. That's been a part 25 of the library here for several years now. 7-28-06 bwk 115 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Emily Post, huh? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: This one -- this new book that I 3 acquired today is -- Dale Carnegie's the author of it. Some 4 of you may have heard of it. "How to Win Friends and 5 Influence People." I'd recommend it. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Obviously, the J.P. didn't 7 read that book. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Going to check that out 9 today? 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Don't you think we ought to 11 cut Commissioners Court salaries too? 12 MR. CASTILLO: Or, on the other hand, increase the 13 budget by 50 percent. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask a question. On 15 bonds, the 320, is that -- is that enough for a new official 16 and a new official's secretary and all that? 17 MR. CASTILLO: It costs me 50 bucks for two years. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Should be -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Should be plenty. 20 MR. CASTILLO: Up to date on July 12th -- let's see. 21 I don't know about books and publications. I had 200, but 22 don't we get our books through upstairs library? Do you know? 23 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Is that line item -- Books and 24 Publications, wasn't it? Probably it's Books, Publications, 25 and Dues. So, if you're a member of the association, that's 7-28-06 bwk 116 1 where that dues is coming in. She needs to -- the judge is 2 going to need to be a member of the association, Justice of 3 the Peace. 4 MR. CASTILLO: 45 bucks a year. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: I did reduce telephone there by a 6 small amount. And, here again, looking at historical use, you 7 just pulled over the original budgeted amount from this 8 current year? 9 MR. CASTILLO: Yes. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 11 MR. CASTILLO: And I'm not using very much of my 12 miscellaneous. I'm not using much of my -- at all. Let's 13 see. Equipment maintenance, part-time salary. I'm in there 14 -- when my clerk is gone on sick leave or vacation, I'm in 15 there. I don't have anything else to do. I don't need to go 16 out. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You've increased conferences, 18 looks like. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, because -- because of the 20 initial year of training. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, okay. 22 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Y'all want to raise that a whole 23 lot, 'cause they're going to need a lot of training for that 24 deal. 25 MS. MITCHELL: Yes. 7-28-06 bwk 117 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Have you seen this budget, 2 Ms. Mitchell? 3 MS. MITCHELL: Yes. I was the one that suggested 4 this. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay, so you're all right 6 with it. 7 MR. CASTILLO: I don't know what y'all are going to 8 -- I don't have anything much to say about that. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Looks good. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 12 MR. CASTILLO: Telephone, it looks like it's 59. We 13 may not -- unless you go into Agrant and go searching 14 yourself, but if you utilize Will and Alford, may cut -- cut 15 that down some more, too. That's the only place where I use 16 it a lot, if I go into Agrant thing. Sometimes you really 17 have to go in there a whole lot. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: A lot of these phone things are 19 probably going to be subject to modification when we get the 20 cell phone policy plugged in, but we'll have to see how that 21 goes. Anything else, Judge? 22 MR. CASTILLO: No. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All right, sir. Why don't we -- 24 MR. CASTILLO: Any questions? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 7-28-06 bwk 118 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Appreciate it. Why don't we break 2 for lunch and come back about 1:30. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why don't we finish 4? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I thought -- oh, excuse me. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We can still come back at 6 1:30. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Do you want to make a 8 recommendation, Judge Elliott, on Precinct 4? Since he's not 9 here? 10 JUDGE ELLIOTT: He would like to do a lot more with 11 a lot less too. So, let your conscience be your guide. 12 MR. CASTILLO: Another thing that -- Judge, let me 13 add another -- 14 (Discussion off the record.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Why don't we break for lunch and come 16 back at 1:30. 17 (Recess taken from 12:10 p.m. to 1:35 p.m.) 18 - - - - - - - - - - 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's come back to order. If 20 I'm not mistaken, we're down to constables, are we not? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just one quick footnote on 23 J.P. 2 on that capital item. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I called. She's on 7-28-06 bwk 119 1 vacation, so she'll have the answer for me on Monday; I'll 2 share it with you on Monday. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Page 17. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Appreciate that. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I got a call at lunchtime 8 from a constituent that was demanding I do something about 9 global warming. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Global warming? 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Global warming. I told her 12 I was going to work on world peace today. I -- that's what I 13 told her. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Have to wait till Monday? 15 (Laughter.) 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, Commissioner. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Constable 1 is with us. 18 MR. BILLEITER: Yes, sir. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He's been with us all 20 morning waiting on this. 21 MR. BILLEITER: Off and on. I thought you were 22 going to get to me before lunch, but you didn't. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: In case you fellows haven't figured 24 it out, I'm trying to put you guys on a par. 25 MR. BILLEITER: I understand that. 7-28-06 bwk 120 1 JUDGE TINLEY: In most categories, probably what 2 will have most of you upset is, I took the one that was the 3 cheapest, and then I put everybody there with that one. 4 MR. BILLEITER: One thing I wanted to ask. On the 5 3,500 requested on fuel -- 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 7 MR. BILLEITER: -- there was two reasons why I 8 requested that. Number one, fuel costs are going up. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 10 MR. BILLEITER: Number two, I have bought a K-9, and 11 I've trained her as a drug dog, and she'll be certified the 12 18th of next month. Her and I both will. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: And you got to be running. 14 MR. BILLEITER: So I anticipate being called out a 15 lot by the Sheriff's Department, and also by D.P.S. We only 16 have two drug dogs in Kerr County that I know of. Mine will 17 be the second one. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: And you got to leave your engine 19 running. 20 MR. BILLEITER: Yes, I do. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: In order to keep her from dying in 22 the car. 23 MR. BILLEITER: Yes. I've already bought a cage for 24 the car and -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: She doesn't need a cage. 7-28-06 bwk 121 1 MR. BILLEITER: -- invested in the K-9 training. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What kind of dog? 3 MR. BILLEITER: Golden lab. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Did you train her from 5 scratch? 6 MR. BILLEITER: Started training her at two months, 7 and she'll be -- we should be certified, both her and I will 8 be certified, if we pass, the 18th of next month. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I've got some four-week-old 10 puppies that are up for sale right now. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Constable, it's going to be pretty 12 embarrassing if you go to take your certification and the dog 13 passes and you don't. 14 MR. BILLEITER: That is going to be embarrassing, 15 yes. But the person who's training me assures me that I will 16 pass. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. (Laughter.) 18 MR. BILLEITER: So, that's why I had that in there, 19 because I feel like I'll probably be called out quite a bit. 20 The other thing was, I don't know -- I was trying to remember. 21 I'm going to have to have new tires for my vehicle next year. 22 I've got 41,000 miles on my car. We're going to have to have 23 the radar calibrated or certified this year, and I'm not sure 24 exactly what that costs, but that's why I put 1,200 in for 25 vehicle maintenance and repair. I didn't have to buy new 7-28-06 bwk 122 1 tires this year, but I will have to next year. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 41,000 miles. That was one 3 of the things that I wanted to talk to everybody about -- or 4 not talk about, just ask about. How long have you had the -- 5 had the car now? 6 MR. BILLEITER: Well, how long have y'all had them, 7 Angel? 8 MR. TOMLINSON: Three years. 9 MR. GARZA: Three years. 10 MR. BILLEITER: Three years. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Have you had yours three? 12 MR. BILLEITER: No, hmm-mm. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, they should have more 14 miles than you, because they -- 15 MR. BILLEITER: Not necessarily, 'cause they've all 16 been used same amount. I think I have more miles than -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, that's right. 18 MR. BILLEITER: I think I have more miles -- I know 19 more than Angel. I'm not sure about Joel. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 21 MR. BILLEITER: But those are the only two things. 22 I know you cut my office expense, and that's good, because 23 last year I -- or when I started, I had nothing except a phone 24 on the floor. So, that's fine. But the -- the fuel and the 25 vehicle maintenance and repair, that -- it may need 1,200; I'm 7-28-06 bwk 123 1 not sure. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is the last year on 3 your lease on the -- 4 MR. GARZA: I think it is. 5 MR. TOMLINSON: It's paid off. There is no lease 6 this year. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Pardon? 8 MR. BILLEITER: There is no lease this year. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, the lease is over on 10 these? Okay, good. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: So, you need fuel and maintenance 12 items restored to the original request. You thought those 13 through very, very carefully before you -- and very tightly 14 before you brought them to me, right? 15 MR. BILLEITER: Yes, sir, I did. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 17 MR. BILLEITER: That's all I had. Everything else 18 looks really good. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And 500 covers the insurance, 20 huh? 21 MR. BILLEITER: I suppose we didn't have enough in 22 there last year to cover it. We had to take some -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Tommy, does 500 cover it? 24 MR. TOMLINSON: It should. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, I was thinking that was about 7-28-06 bwk 124 1 what we needed to cover it. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It says 481. 3 MR. BILLEITER: I know last year we didn't have 4 enough in there, and we had to take it out of another line 5 item. 6 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, year-to-date, the actual is 7 481. 8 MR. BILLEITER: 484. And we had -- 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Probably had 450, if you carried over 10 from what you had previous. 11 MR. BILLEITER: Yeah, $30 or so. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: David, I really like your 13 newspaper articles. 14 MR. BILLEITER: Well, thank you, sir. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Read them all, and I think 16 they make a difference. I think they help people out. So 17 that's -- 18 MR. BILLEITER: Surprising how quick a week rolls 19 around. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's hard to do. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I wouldn't do it. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 23 MR. BILLEITER: Okay. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: You say this dog that you're getting 25 trained up is only going to be the second one here within the 7-28-06 bwk 125 1 county? 2 MR. BILLEITER: The police department has one, and 3 I'll have one. The county doesn't have any, but, of course, 4 they -- the P.D. uses -- they use their dog. But we only have 5 -- we'll only have two drug dogs. Now, Don Gray has some drug 6 dogs, but he's not able to get out and use them. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Last time I saw Don, he was still 8 working with some and training some. 9 MR. BILLEITER: Don has helped me training, but he's 10 just not able to get around. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you -- if -- and I'm sure 12 it's a different certification, but a search and rescue is a 13 completly different type of training? 14 MR. BILLEITER: Completely different. I hope to, 15 after I get her trained, and/or after I get her certified in 16 dope, to train her to track. She'll only be good in search 17 and rescue, 'cause she's not aggressive, so I don't want to 18 use her to track criminals, 'cause she'll go up and lick them. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. But you can dually train 20 them? 21 MR. BILLEITER: Oh, yes, mm-hmm. Yeah. Drug dog -- 22 dual purpose drug dog goes for $11,000 -- or a dual purpose 23 dog. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's a big business, 25 training dogs. 7-28-06 bwk 126 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have four-week-old little 2 yellow labs right now. Will you train them all? Look at the 3 money -- 4 MR. BILLEITER: Most of those are coming from 5 Holland, though. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm trying to lure him into 7 agreeing to train my dogs. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How much personal investment 9 do you have in that dog? 10 MR. BILLEITER: About $1,000. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the dog and the feed, 12 and what about that cage thing? 13 MR. BILLEITER: Cage cost me $70. Food. I mean, 14 vet -- overall, probably about $1,000 I've got in her with the 15 training, with the vet bills. I've had her spayed, all of 16 that. But it's something I wanted to do, so I'm glad to do 17 it. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it just takes a lot of your 19 time to train, correct? Isn't it time more than anything 20 else? 21 MR. BILLEITER: I have minimum training of 34 hours 22 a month, but I train her every -- just about every other day, 23 we train. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's great. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's basically a donation to 7-28-06 bwk 127 1 the county. 2 MR. BILLEITER: It's something I wanted to do, yeah, 3 so the County benefits. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: David, one time I was 6 coming back from Europe and I was in Houston going through 7 customs, and this Cajun came up and he said, "I'm training 8 this dog," and the dog was coming down, and he says, "You mind 9 if I put this package in your bags?" I said, "Okay." The dog 10 came up there, sat down, did what he's supposed to do, and 500 11 people at the airport were pointing their fingers at me. 12 Caught one of those dope dealers. 13 MR. BILLEITER: I can tell you, training my dog, I 14 was not thinking, but I hid dope all in my pickup, let her 15 find it. And I was thinking, I got to go through a checkpoint 16 down in Del Rio when I go fishing; I sure hope she found it 17 all. (Laughter.) And she did. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's go to Constable 2. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you know what the capital 20 outlay was for? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: No, I don't. I've got a question 22 mark there, as you'll note. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, that's a carry-over 24 from '03-'04. That had to do -- that went back to the days 25 when they were looking for a car. 7-28-06 bwk 128 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That shouldn't even be in 3 there. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Delete that, okay. 5 MR. BILLEITER: Capital outlay, y'all put that in 6 our operating equipment. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the lease payment's going to 8 come out. Right, Tommy? 9 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. 10 MR. BILLEITER: But that wasn't part of that. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The 71 comes out of the 12 requested line. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: He's got no complaints coming. He's 14 in good shape. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, looks like. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Only thing, I cut him on supplies 17 along with everybody. Okay, let's go to 3. Angel? 18 MR. GARZA: Yes, sir. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: We're up to you. Take out the lease 20 payments there. Looks to me like the only potential complaint 21 you have is where we cut your supplies also, in line with 22 everybody else, to 350. 23 MR. GARZA: That's fine with me, Your Honor. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 25 MR. GARZA: I have no problem with that, sir. 7-28-06 bwk 129 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Other than that, looks like you're 2 good to go. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What was the capital outlay? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: That's not a capital outlay. 5 Actually, that's a -- if you move all those up one line, on -- 6 on the requested line, his training schools, that goes up to 7 300, and 100 goes up to miscellaneous. 2,500 is operating 8 equipment. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What would that be, 10 operating equipment? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the same allocation that's 12 been made to all of them. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How many miles you got on 15 your car? 16 MR. GARZA: At this point, Commissioner, about 17 3,300 miles -- 33,000, I'm sorry. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you drive out in the far 19 eastern part of the county more often? 20 MR. GARZA: I will do that, sir. I -- I will do 21 that, sir. I have been doing that. Just -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: More. 23 MR. GARZA: Yes, sir, I will. I will, sir. I just 24 -- if you have any more questions, I hope my monthly reports 25 have been informative to you. I've -- anything I can be of 7-28-06 bwk 130 1 assistance, you know, what I'm doing or, like I said, more 2 miles to our part of the county, I welcome any -- anything 3 that the Commissioners would like me to explain about my 4 reports or anything. You know, I'm here. Monthly reports or 5 anything. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're all fine. 7 MR. GARZA: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Keep writing tickets on the 9 interstate. Looks like you and Joel aren't doing that as much 10 as you were for a while. 11 MR. GARZA: Yeah. What I want to do is, when David 12 gets his drug dog going again, he's going to be out more 13 often. That's what I want to do, is be able to assist him if 14 he needs to do a K-9 search if he's by himself or 15 what-have-you. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Or you may have someone that you've 18 detained that might be a good candidate for a little sniff 19 test. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You might ought to pull someone 21 and then call David over. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Before they get to Kimble County. 23 MR. GARZA: Yeah, or Kendall. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or Kendall. 25 MR. GARZA: So, on the gasoline, it will be 3,000? 7-28-06 bwk 131 1 Or -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 4 MR. GARZA: And the operating equipment will be the 5 same, $1,000? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: No, no, no. Operating equipment's 7 2,500. 8 MR. GARZA: I'm sorry, I mean the vehicle repair and 9 maintenance. I'm sorry. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, mm-hmm. 11 MR. GARZA: Okay. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably new tires this year as 14 well, I would imagine. 15 MR. GARZA: Yes, sir. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. 17 MR. GARZA: Thank you very much, Commissioners, Your 18 Honor. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 20 MR. GARZA: Thank you. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Precinct 4. Constable Terrell always 22 low-balls. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: I've never seen a guy ask for less, 25 and even when you give it to him, he tries to figure out a way 7-28-06 bwk 132 1 not to spend it. I increased his gasoline to 3,000 from his 2 requested 2,000 to put him in parity with the others. Same 3 way with vehicle repairs. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: He loves his work. I think 5 if you quit paying him, he'd still come to work. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And he still has his deputy? 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. And that's still -- 8 I do check on that. That's still working. If -- when T.D.'s 9 not quite able to, Bill is, so it's still getting done. 10 Someday he'll -- he'll want to give that up, and you'll 11 probably want to think about alternatives, doing something 12 different. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Is that it for constables? 14 Let's move to the County Attorney. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Number 11. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, indeedy. Now, we had some -- 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Didn't I see something new 18 from the County Attorney? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. He's -- he's had some changes 20 that he's brought to us. 21 MR. EMERSON: I asked for capital outlay for a new 22 printer that was submitted. The printer that we have was 23 purchased used back in, I think, 2000 or 2002. We spent over 24 $1,000 on maintenance on it in the last 16 months. Seems to 25 be about every three or four months, and it's just not 7-28-06 bwk 133 1 cost-effective for the volume that we put through that 2 printer. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: And you've got a high volume 4 operation down there. You pull a lot of paper through one of 5 those things, don't you? 6 MR. EMERSON: Yes, sir. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 8 MR. EMERSON: The printer is still usable and could 9 be transferred to another department that didn't produce the 10 volume, but I don't think it's feasible for us. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Would you talk about 12 attorney's fees? That's gone up a lot the last two or three 13 years. What -- what's happening there? 14 MR. EMERSON: Well, that's where last year we -- I 15 laid off the third person -- attorney, and we dropped to two 16 attorneys. And to tell you how that's paid off, we're 17 basically contracting out all the mental health services, and 18 we're going to pay ballpark between 12,000 and 13,000. We'll 19 bill the other counties about 55,000. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I remember that, now that 21 you mention it. 22 MR. EMERSON: We've turned it into a profit center 23 instead of a loss. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We like those. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: How many more of those would you like 7-28-06 bwk 134 1 to have? 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: About all of them. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Maybe we can get the City in this. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We got your backup on the 5 personnel -- or increases. 6 MR. EMERSON: Yes, sir. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are we going to -- Judge, are we 8 going to look at merit increases at the end? Or are we -- I 9 mean, I know some departments are requesting them. Some 10 haven't. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, they -- I didn't address them 12 one way or the other in my memo when I sent out the budget 13 worksheets. I don't recall there being -- except in maybe 14 three instances at most, where they're even suggested or 15 requested. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Which says something also. 17 Those that took initiative to request them are probably -- I 18 mean, they're pushing for it for their people; they probably 19 deserve it. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Yeah, I think -- I know the 21 District Clerk -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: County Attorney. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: -- County Attorney, and I think Tax 24 Assessor. And I think Tax Assessor's -- a lot of hers is 12 25 to 13, 13 to 14. I think that may be a major part of both the 7-28-06 bwk 135 1 District Clerk and Tax Assessor. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And District Clerk has a couple 3 of merit in addition to the 13-14's. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: What others do we have any issue with 5 there? 6 MR. EMERSON: I don't -- 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Doesn't look like I tried to beat up 8 on you too bad, except when we get down to software. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just keep giving us more money. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Bottom line, it's kind of like the 11 Court Collections Department. I don't generally have a whole 12 lot of issues with them. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Rex, you heard me ask the 14 question earlier, is there anything else we can charge for? 15 Fees? Licenses? Anything -- any other source of revenue? 16 MR. EMERSON: Not from my department, no. 17 MR. TROLINGER: Are you going to start charging for 18 tapes and -- 19 MR. EMERSON: We already are. 20 MR. TROLINGER: Oh. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, reproduction of tapes for -- 22 MR. EMERSON: We started that February 1st. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: But that's pretty much just passing 24 on the cost. I don't think, in a criminal case, you can turn 25 that into a money-maker. 7-28-06 bwk 136 1 MR. EMERSON: No, sir. But it is going to make 2 about $2,400 a year difference on our office supplies expense. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: You're offsetting that cost. 4 MR. EMERSON: Yes, sir. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: A few months ago, I got a 6 check from the County Attorney, Hot Check Department, I think 7 400-some dollars. And it's a hot check I turned in about five 8 years ago. I'd already given up. And I tell Rex that 9 business -- small businesses really appreciate that work he 10 does. 400, 500 bucks here and there can eat all your profit 11 up pretty soon. 12 MR. EMERSON: And that position is self-funded, 13 which is nice. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Rex, I've got a question -- 16 MR. EMERSON: Yes, sir? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- that's a little bit 18 outside the budget. However, it affects the County as a 19 whole, I think. One of my favorite things that I see around 20 the county government family is the community service program, 21 to see these guys out here working and picking up trash and 22 watering the flowers, where our full-time employees are not 23 doing that. They're hopefully doing maintenance-type things. 24 But it seems that -- that I'm seeing less and less. Do you 25 think that that's a -- do you think that that's true? I mean, 7-28-06 bwk 137 1 are y'all slacking off of assessing some community service 2 hours to people that come through the courts? 3 MR. EMERSON: So far as the volume of people, 4 probably yes, because there's a lot of small offenses where we 5 used to give, you know, 20 to 40 hours of community service, 6 or some for some real minor offense to go along with the fine, 7 and the response that we received from the Probation 8 Department was, "That's a waste of our time. Don't clog up 9 our system." So, we've quit assessing those small amounts. 10 So, if we don't have an offense that we feel is justified in 11 giving more than 40 hours of community service, we don't give 12 any. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Along with that, where there is no 14 community service, isn't it common for the fine to be a little 15 bit higher than it normally would have been where there was a 16 small number of community service hours? 17 MR. EMERSON: Yes and no. If somebody -- if we're 18 plea bargaining with somebody, and they tell us they work six 19 days a week or they have significant family obligations and 20 can't really do community service, then we'll increase their 21 fine and let that go, so the County still comes out on top. 22 But on a small -- on a small offense that normally might have 23 a couple hundred dollar fine and 20 or 30 hours of community 24 service, we just let it go. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On the -- when you said 7-28-06 bwk 138 1 Probation Department, that pushed that. Is it just 2 administratively, it takes a lot of time for them to -- to 3 keep track of community service? Is that where the problem 4 comes? 5 MR. EMERSON: That's what was communicated to us. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the reason is 'cause -- I 7 think that -- I've noticed what Buster's noticed, but also, we 8 have historically staffed the Maintenance Department primarily 9 because we rely heavily on community service for the Ag Barn. 10 And if it's -- if it's going to be a trend where we don't need 11 -- don't have that -- if that's not going to really be 12 available, we need to look at increasing staff in that 13 department, probably. So, if it's -- I mean, so I suspect it 14 will be a long-term trend. And the other part of that would 15 be -- probably you're not the right person to ask, but is that 16 a justifiable request from Adult Probation to cut back on 17 community service? Or do we need to get Adult Probation in 18 here to talk to them about that idea? Because it's a big 19 benefit to the County. 20 MR. EMERSON: The best response I could give you on 21 that is that I think it's important for all the different 22 departments to work as a team. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 24 MR. EMERSON: And if one department comes to another 25 and says, "What you're doing is causing us a hardship," then 7-28-06 bwk 139 1 they need to adapt. And that's essentially what they did. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. And I don't disagree 3 with that, but I'm wondering if it's -- if theirs is an issue 4 of needing a part-time person to help keep track of it 5 administratively. That's a lot cheaper for us than hiring two 6 maintenance people. 7 MR. EMERSON: The -- the discussion that -- a 8 simplified version of the discussion that took place was that 9 it's too hard for us to place people on jobs when they're only 10 going to be able to work, say, three days worth of labor on a 11 particular job. That by the time we train them, it's not 12 worth putting them there. And my response was along the lines 13 of, it doesn't seem to me it's too hard to pick up trash or 14 mow the lawn. It doesn't require a lot of training. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 16 MR. EMERSON: And they just kept hammering back to 17 the same point, so we just let it go. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, we've been wanting to 20 -- for a couple of years now, this old water fountain out here 21 that's sitting idle, we've been waiting for a community 22 service person that knows how to lay rock or that's going to 23 be there a long time, but that hasn't come up, and I don't 24 guess it ever will. I don't know. But that -- that's more of 25 a long-term type situation. 7-28-06 bwk 140 1 MR. EMERSON: It's been my experience in dealing 2 with community service that if you have a particular need; 3 i.e., electrical, plumbing, masonry, if you'll put in a -- if 4 Maintenance or whoever's responsible for -- if a Commissioner 5 will put in a written request with community service, then 6 they will keep an eye out for somebody coming through the 7 system with those skills. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But if they're only here two 9 weekends, that doesn't do any -- you won't get the job done. 10 MR. EMERSON: No, but you have a lot of people with 11 skills that have significantly more probation than that. I 12 mean, the majority of the community service we give is people 13 getting anywhere from 60 to 200 hours. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm not sure I understand 15 the administrative hardship here. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's -- 17 MR. EMERSON: Don't shoot the messenger. That's all 18 I can say. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm not. I'm just making a 20 comment. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You might want to revisit that, 22 because it does -- I mean, to find out what the problem is, 23 because like I said, half a person over there -- if that's the 24 problem, that can be solved a lot cheaper than the alternative 25 from our standpoint. 7-28-06 bwk 141 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They can solve it with a 2 community service worker for one way. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 4 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, they have to have somebody to 5 supervise. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They have to have a supervisor, 7 and maybe it's that one person; maybe that's the -- I mean, I 8 don't know what their -- that's the thing. We probably need 9 to get them back over here, find out what is the -- the 10 problem on the administration side to having more community 11 service. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Who supervises them? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Danny Edwards. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And he's Adult Probation -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, he's Adult Probation Department 16 probation officer. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why don't we ask him to come 18 back over for one of our workshops? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm sure he'd be most happy to. 20 He -- I suspect you probably hear from him, what, nearly every 21 day? 22 MS. DAVIDSON: Well, probably twice a week. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that discussion's 24 between the Court and him, not Alyce and him. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm just mentioning that frequency of 7-28-06 bwk 142 1 contact that he's checking in. 2 MS. DAVIDSON: When we need something, we call them 3 and ask them. If we're looking for a certain person that -- 4 like Rex said, rock-layer, whatever he might -- electrician, 5 call him and ask him, and he keeps it. He tags it on his 6 computer and says, okay, they need it. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But there's a -- I mean, 8 Buster's correct in his -- in his view that we have fewer 9 working, picking up trash, mowing. 10 MS. DAVIDSON: We do at this area. Now, Shel stays 11 busy on the weekends with his crew of 8 to 10 guys usually 12 during the weekend. But they're people that cannot be around 13 the public, basically. They have to stay where he can 14 supervise them out in the county when they're not around 15 children or -- 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, not everybody has to be 17 supervised? 18 MS. DAVIDSON: Not everybody, no. On certain 19 levels -- you've got certain levels that come in. We have the 20 ones that -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, it's just the 22 lawnmowing/maintenance side that we've been cut back on, not 23 at the Ag Barn setup? 24 MS. DAVIDSON: No, B.J. takes care of pretty much of 25 our stuff that we need when it comes down to that end. 7-28-06 bwk 143 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: So, we got a little bit off of the 3 County Attorney's -- 4 MS. DAVIDSON: Sorry about that. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: With regard to the things that need 6 to go on out at the Ag Barn, you've either got community 7 service workers or you've got the chain gang or both? 8 MS. DAVIDSON: Or we're on the -- or we've got 9 ourselves as well. A couple of us as well. And during -- 10 community service goes on all during the week. He's got two 11 or three out there during the week that can't work on the 12 weekend, or vice-versa, so all during the week we've got 13 community service workers out there. You're just not seeing 14 them, being that you're here. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: And whatever we need done to take the 16 load off of the regular Maintenance people, we've got the 17 availability of those people, for -- out at the Ag Barn, for 18 example? 19 MS. DAVIDSON: We do at certain places. Remember 20 that we can't pull them here that are not able to be around 21 certain people, no. But, yeah, we -- we get -- like, Roy will 22 have them on the 13th -- 12th to help out with the Extension 23 Office. We -- we coordinate with Dan Edwards when he needs 24 them to go certain places, and then we have them for half the 25 weekend, so we split it out. But they get them for one day on 7-28-06 bwk 144 1 the weekend, we get them for one day on the weekend, so 2 it's -- we work them. You just don't see them here at the 3 courthouse as much, because we usually do, like Rex says, the 4 smaller hours here at the courthouse. And if they're not 5 going to mess with less than 40 hours, you're not going to see 6 an abundance of community service workers here. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, you answered my 8 question. I appreciate it. Thank you. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 10 MR. EMERSON: One more thing I might add, and this 11 is -- it's not an issue at this point, but once again, just 12 like last year, we're the only region of Texas that C.P.S. 13 still has the original attorneys performing -- performing 14 their legal work. So, with the State cutting back like they 15 are, and they have put out a request for performance quote for 16 services in this area, I don't know what's going to happen. 17 We may very well end up, somewhere midyear, all of a sudden 18 having to take all the C.P.S. cases. And if we do, I'll have 19 to come back before y'all. So -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Understood. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, sir. 23 MR. EMERSON: Thank you. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, this personnel issue on 25 -- on his office, that's -- that looks like an automatic thing 7-28-06 bwk 145 1 to happen, to me. That's longevity. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: He just -- I think he just made note 3 of it because he was aware of it. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And what about the merit 6 increase? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, Wayne is the merit. 8 Wayne is the merit, and the other is automatic, Rex? 9 MR. EMERSON: I'm sorry? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Wayne is the merit? 11 MR. EMERSON: Correct. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The other one is automatic? 13 MR. EMERSON: The other one's automatic. I just -- 14 I didn't submit the full number when I originally submitted my 15 budget, so -- 'cause I wasn't sure what the step and grade 16 schedules were. I finally resorted to guesstimating to the 17 best of my ability. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, there's a lot of work to be 21 done on this next one. 22 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, I want to give you another 23 copy of mine. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, no. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is an updated version? 7-28-06 bwk 146 1 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: I told you this would be a lot of 3 work. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Hot off the press? 5 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It will change. 7 MR. TOMLINSON: When we got this new accounting 8 system, I was using my budget for practice. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What tab is that? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 12. 11 MR. TOMLINSON: To learn how to use the system. And 12 I discovered that this part-time line item was part of my 13 practice, and it shouldn't be there. I forgot I didn't delete 14 that number, that 15,000, so that comes out. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I didn't have it in my budget. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: I didn't either. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We already deleted it. 18 MR. TOMLINSON: It's already out of yours? Okay. I 19 must have given you one earlier -- later than this one. I 20 just -- the copy I have, I had it in there, so I just want to 21 make sure -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: -- it wasn't in there. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: I didn't do anything to you. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's unchanged. 7-28-06 bwk 147 1 JUDGE TINLEY: I figured you'd figure out a way to 2 snatch it anyway. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, I did want to say that -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now here it comes. 5 MR. TOMLINSON: -- part of the Assistant's salary, I 6 -- I estimated a COLA, and I did sort of what Rex did, just 7 estimated what it would be. And then I added a merit -- a 8 step for one of my employees. So, I'm asking for a one-step 9 for one employee. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just want to say this 11 format really looks good. I like the way it looks and how you 12 filled it in. 13 MR. TOMLINSON: Then the -- I discovered also that 14 -- that my -- the amount for bonds, Line 206, I actually need 15 200 instead of 150. I guess that's it. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, you're adding one 17 part-time or one person? 18 MR. TOMLINSON: No I'm not adding any employees. I 19 just -- I'm just asking for a merit increase for one of my 20 employees. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: A one-step? 22 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah, one step. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But we -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's driving it up from 72 25 to 94? 7-28-06 bwk 148 1 MR. TOMLINSON: Part of that -- excuse me -- is the 2 fact that -- that I -- under a contractual basis, when I was 3 under contract, I was making much less than -- than what my 4 salary will be. But my salary is the same as -- as I was 5 making prior to going contractual. Before I had a contractual 6 agreement, my salary was at that level prior to that, so I'm 7 asking for the same amount. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tommy, the -- I think you 9 brought it up to us a while back that you thought we needed to 10 bring in an intern early replacement or something at some 11 point. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: I think so. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How -- well, I don't know if you 14 even know how long you'll be here exactly. Be here in the 15 county, not be here forever. But I guess the question is, how 16 do you afford to bring in someone who is basically going to 17 have to be paid at a salary close to what you're getting, I 18 mean, pretty high salary level as a second person in a 19 department as small as this? I mean, I understand the need to 20 bring in the person, but I don't know how you do it, because 21 you can't bring in an intern. You got to bring in someone 22 who's qualified to take over, if that's the plan. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: I would just take a cut in salary. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just reduce your salary and give 25 them some of it? 7-28-06 bwk 149 1 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or give them a part -- or more, 3 you know. 4 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To help get it competitive? 6 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We talked about the need to 8 do that earlier, Tommy and I did, and he suggested he could 9 hold off in this budget year and consider it during next 10 budget year. Does that still feel okay? 11 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's a good plan. I 13 think we need to probably -- you need to do it, make a much 14 smoother transition. But that answers the question. Reduce 15 yours and increase his or hers, okay. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. That brings us to County 17 Treasurer. I had a voicemail message this morning. The 18 Treasurer called and indicated that she had unexpectedly been 19 called out of town, and asked that we reschedule hers until 20 the next workshop date. And, actually, the -- the budget 21 worksheet that's been submitted and which has been processed 22 here before us may be a long ways away from whatever her 23 actual office operation is going to be, with what else we've 24 got going on with human resources. So, it might be just as 25 well that -- you know, whatever we do today, tinkering with 7-28-06 bwk 150 1 this, if any, may not be realistic anyway. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, we need to defer it, 3 because there's going to be a substantial change in it. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I got a question 5 anyway. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Looking at the salaries -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- is this your 10 hen-scratching, the numbers -- handwritten numbers? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: In the requested budget column? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: No, sir. That -- that is the 14 Treasurer or someone that did it on her behalf. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, the Treasurer is 16 requesting a deputy at 49,000, and zeroing out the part-time? 17 Is that what I'm seeing? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: That's what I see. I think that's 19 actually -- 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Two deputies. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, I think it's two. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or one and a half. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Or one and a half, yeah. It's not 24 one, though. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. So, she's wanting to do 7-28-06 bwk 151 1 away with part-time and go to two full-time? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's probably a 3 one-and-a-half job there. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The woman that works down 5 there part-time, I guess it is, has been there ever since I've 6 been around county government. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Full-time/part-time. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What is the deal with her? 9 Is she -- is she -- she's a part-time employee? Does she get 10 benefits? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: She does now. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think so. 13 MR. TOMLINSON: She doesn't get insurance. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Not insurance, no. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Hmm? 16 MR. TOMLINSON: She does not get insurance. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: She's on fixed hours a 18 week. Maybe that's what it is. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't know what the hours are, 20 but -- 21 MR. TOMLINSON: I think it varies from week to week, 22 but on the average, she works less than 30 hours a week. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But she gets retirement, but not 24 insurance. 25 MR. TOMLINSON: Right. 7-28-06 bwk 152 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Vacation. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Is that -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: She's a part-time employee. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Is that what she prefers? 5 I'm not sure it makes any difference, but she doesn't want 6 full-time employment? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's always been my 8 understanding. I don't know. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think she is a full-time 10 employee. 11 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, it started out as a -- as a 12 part-time, but since she doesn't have a full-time down there, 13 she's been working right up to the 30 hours, I think. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Is she paid an hourly rate? 15 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else, Commissioner? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not at this time. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anybody else have any 20 questions about the Treasurer? Okay. Let's move to 21 Facilities and Maintenance. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 15. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: 15. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What happened to Alyce? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: She's been here all day. 7-28-06 bwk 153 1 MR. EMERSON: Do you want me to ask Kathy to call 2 her? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I bet she's right outside. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I think she's probably handy there 5 somewhere. 6 MR. EMERSON: I'll see if I can find her, Jon. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That will give me time to ask 8 a question. Is Alyce the designated supervisor down there? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's two. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You got two designated. And 11 that's -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Who is the other one? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Maria. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Maria. She's over the 15 custodial end of it, I guess. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maria's over the worker end; 17 she's over the bookwork end. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, not necessarily that 19 way. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My question was going to be, 21 then, why -- why isn't Maria in the room? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, you got to look at 23 these sheets that Glenn prepared to begin with, and I reviewed 24 all of this with Alyce down there last week. Judge, if you 25 look at -- if you look at these sheets, you'll see in a couple 7-28-06 bwk 154 1 of them where he's got -- he's put in some major increases for 2 -- for a couple folks, because he believed that he wanted -- 3 he was trying to convince us to create a two-headed 4 supervision model, if you will. That's the best word I can 5 use -- word of choice I can use. "Monster" comes to mind. 6 Model. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, he prepared a kind of a 8 schedule and passed it around. 9 MS. DAVIDSON: Sorry, I had to take care of 10 something. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, we have to deal with 12 that issue. Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On our commission -- on our next 14 Commissioners Court meeting. If you're not putting it on 15 there, I will. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, I'll put it on. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Alyce, come on up, if you 19 will. We're not going to get into the personnel aspects of 20 it, particularly. 21 MS. DAVIDSON: That's fine. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're going to review the 23 things that you and I basically reviewed down there, okay? 24 And I did go down, Judge, and visit with Alyce for an hour or 25 so earlier this week and reviewed all of these items on these 7-28-06 bwk 155 1 budget sheets, other than the personnel items. And I asked 2 some questions about them, but essentially the requested 3 amount and the recommended amount pretty well hold up. 4 MS. DAVIDSON: I do have one I found on 513. I 5 don't think Glenn realized that he didn't write in the uniform 6 amount for Sonny. It's a zero amount, and we do use uniforms. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 515? 8 MS. DAVIDSON: 513-316. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Parks Maintenance, yes. 10 MS. DAVIDSON: Parks Maintenance. So, that is an 11 adjustment we need to make, please. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What goes in there? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 600. 14 MS. DAVIDSON: 600. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which line? I'm sorry. 16 MS. DAVIDSON: It's going to be 513, Uniforms, 316. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I got you, okay. 600? 18 MS. DAVIDSON: Yes, sir. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: And, other -- other than that, the 20 items that I addressed are -- I mean, there wasn't a great 21 deal of -- 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: -- changes. The ones that were made 24 were pretty minor, as I recall. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And going over all that with 7-28-06 bwk 156 1 Alyce, we didn't see any -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 3 MS. DAVIDSON: Any major changes on anything. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Any major changes to that. 5 MS. DAVIDSON: Okay, I appreciate it. It's nice -- 6 I like hearing this and understanding it. So -- 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And the questions that I did 8 have, Alyce provided me with some backup. I had some 9 questions in terms of what constituted the -- certain levels 10 of repairs, major versus others and so forth, and she provided 11 me backup on it. 12 MS. DAVIDSON: Did you go over those, and everything 13 looked legitimate? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, it was as you had 15 indicated. 16 MS. DAVIDSON: Contract fees are the part-time help 17 in the evening and things like that. So -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If the Court wants to see 19 it, I've got it available. 20 MS. DAVIDSON: Sounds good. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pretty straightforward. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Just curiosity, what's 23 trash service under Parks Maintenance? 24 MS. DAVIDSON: It is our big dumpsters that we pick 25 up, what B.J. takes care of, and then they come and dump it at 7-28-06 bwk 157 1 the Ag Barn and we dispose of it from there. And anything 2 that we bury from here, like records or anything, we use that 3 out of the trash as well. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: General Schellhase is going 5 to come -- at my invitation, to come before the Court on the 6 14th, and he met with Alyce and me downstairs to share with us 7 a new revised landscaping plan for the Union Church, which 8 involves taking that old courthouse fencing and getting rid of 9 the old, having it installed, and a whole new landscaping plan 10 and an expanded parking -- hard-surface parking, as per the 11 demands of the City. And -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Demands of the City? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: City. City wants it 14 expanded. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You'll have to ask them why. 17 They just do. And, so, what we've reviewed was -- he'll be 18 here to tell you all about it. I'm not hiding anything; they 19 just didn't say why. I don't know why -- how they got into 20 it, but apparently they did. All he wanted to do was review 21 it with Alyce, and what -- whether or not that affected her 22 Parks Maintenance budget. 23 MS. DAVIDSON: We should be able to take care of it. 24 Again, it comes to the community service workers. We could do 25 it one day a month to go over there and, you know, clean beds 7-28-06 bwk 158 1 or whatever. Shel -- Shel can take his crew over there and do 2 it, so we can work it in. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What is he talking about? He 4 wants the County to spend more money to -- 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, no. The Friends of 6 the -- 7 MS. DAVIDSON: Just maintenance. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The Friends of the Union 9 Church want to raise the money to get it rehabbed. They're 10 going to raise the money for it. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My first -- my first question 12 that pops in my mind -- and I remember not too long ago, 13 Schreiner University wasn't real happy about us -- our 14 building being there. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They love it now. 16 MS. DAVIDSON: They use it. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They love it, use it all the 18 time. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: New owner of the Ingram Dam 20 Shopping Center forced us to remove our port-a-pottys. 21 MS. DAVIDSON: Port-a-pottys. Have you had any 22 feedback on that at all? 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 24 MS. DAVIDSON: You have? 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: A lot. 7-28-06 bwk 159 1 MS. DAVIDSON: I bet. So, where do you expect them 2 to go? 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: They're going in the 4 Guadalupe River. 5 MS. DAVIDSON: Right. Isn't that nasty? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Your port-a-pottys were over 7 there on the river side, weren't they? 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah, but he owns that. 9 We've got a right-of-way, but we can't put them in the 10 right-of-way 'cause it's not for that purpose. And now I got 11 the County Attorney coming around and saying we got a 12 liability. 13 MS. DAVIDSON: That's a long ways to walk, though, 14 if you're up at the dam. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: County Attorney's going to 16 talk to us next meeting, so we got liability exposure, people 17 getting hurt on that dam. Of course, there were people 18 getting hurt on that dam when Buster was 15 years old. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Look what it did to him. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Didn't affect me in 21 any way. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's a big attraction. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, yeah. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The sun is shining today; 25 when I drive home, there may be 50 people out there on that 7-28-06 bwk 160 1 dam. 2 MS. DAVIDSON: Does he allow them to go to the 3 bathroom in his store? 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, he doesn't own the 5 store. It's rented out. 6 MS. DAVIDSON: Oh, okay. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: But, in retrospect, it 8 probably helps him -- he's got a sign up there, "Customers 9 Only" in the bathroom. 10 MS. DAVIDSON: Have to buy some gum to go to the 11 bathroom. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Got to buy beer. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Which brings you back again. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, you told the gentleman or 15 person that he's not being very neighborly? 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Didn't care. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: He's from Arizona or New 19 Mexico, one of those -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Foreign countries. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- hostile foreign nations. 22 MS. DAVIDSON: All right. Is that it? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yep. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 7-28-06 bwk 161 1 MS. DAVIDSON: Thanks. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Alyce. 3 MS. DAVIDSON: Bye. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you for your patience. 5 MS. DAVIDSON: You're welcome. Well, I like to 6 listen. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, you don't. 8 MS. DAVIDSON: Kind of took in a little bit, so 9 thanks. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't -- I don't have a 11 proposal on supervisory things, but what I would like to see 12 is an organization that gets by with one fewer supervisor. 13 But I don't -- I see several ways to do that, but I don't have 14 a recommendation. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I'm going to put it on 16 the agenda. I've got some materials to share with the Court 17 for next time. But we do have -- we have a situation down 18 there that has to be corrected. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We need a real Maintenance 20 Supervisor. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The other thing that's 23 going to come up on Monday that I'll tell you about in advance 24 is, I've got a petition signed by 35, 40, 45 people. It's 25 that Pleasure Hill-Bumble Bee-Waltonia area, and they're 7-28-06 bwk 162 1 wanting us to build a coffer dam on our Waltonia Crossing to 2 keep the water level at constant measure, and I told them they 3 could come up here and plead their case. One of their 4 representatives will be here Monday. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We haven't seen the ladies 6 from Bumble Bee Hills for quite some time. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, I know what happened 8 there. The homeowners' association got tired of those 9 expenses and all that publicity, and they got a new board of 10 directors, and it doesn't include either one of them. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Each of us received, I guess this 12 morning -- that was the first time I saw it -- an '06-'07 13 Payroll Proposals. To the best of my understanding, these 14 were prepared by the Treasurer's office. It's got various 15 things in here, the new grade/step schedule, the -- and then 16 various options. The budget comparison, I'm not sure I 17 understand what all that means. But position schedules, if 18 I'm reading it correctly, it includes a 4.2 COLA, includes the 19 longevity, -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 4.2. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: -- and moving 12 to 13 and 13 to 14. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: And then four is -- is a position 24 schedule with a 4.2 COLA with no longevity, which I don't -- 25 we got to do the longevity. That's a matter of mandated 7-28-06 bwk 163 1 policy at this point. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Correct. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: So I can't see how that would be 4 beneficial. But then the next one, of course, is 4.2 COLA 5 with the longevity, leaving 12 and 13 as-is. I guess the only 6 other option would be -- two other options; one would be not 7 to move 12 to 13, but move 13 to 14. Or move 12 to 13, but 8 not 13 to 14, could be the only other option. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think under the Number 2 tab, 10 I think it's a summary of those three items, and it's 11 longevity, moving 12 to 13, 13 to 14, 4,456,000. Then the 12 second -- 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So it costs us about $30,000. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: 31,000, yeah. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 31,000 to move those grades. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To move 12 to 13's and 13's to 19 14's costs us about 31,000. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, actually, it's -- yeah, okay. 21 Yeah. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Couple-three years ago, we 23 talked about our lowest paid employees, and we looked at some 24 -- some data that talked about poverty levels and eligibility 25 for assistance and all that, and our lowest paid employees are 7-28-06 bwk 164 1 just not paid very much. Now, I know I'm not going to have to 2 live with the budget, but if we can find a way to increase 3 their pay a little bit, I'd sure support that. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which one, Dave? 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Our lowest paid employees. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: What you're talking about is moving 7 the 12's to 13's and 13's to 14's. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, I'm saying I support 9 that, and I support it 'cause I think it's the right thing to 10 do. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do too. We've hung around 12 with that 12 way too long. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And it's not -- I mean, it's -- 14 31,000 is not -- I mean, it's 31,000, but it's not undoable. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And, of course, we -- I don't 17 think that we're totally and completely hung up with the 4.2, 18 actually. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's not set in concrete. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, by next week, we'll get 21 the -- another number will be posted, or shortly thereafter. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And we can look at -- which 24 should get us through the first two, three quarters. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Down through June now. 7-28-06 bwk 165 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We'll get down through June. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're just now wrapping up 3 July, so we'll be mid-August before we can get July. First 4 six months. We should get the first six months anytime now. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We'll get the first nine months 6 for budget, though. First six months of the year, first nine 7 months of the budget. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, six months nationwide. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Would you say that in our 10 clerical and blue-collar jobs, that we're able -- when we have 11 a vacancy, we're able to attract good candidates, qualified 12 candidates? What I'm getting at is, we don't pay as much as 13 some others in the area, Kerrville -- City of Kerrville and 14 some others. Is that a problem for us? Or are we getting by 15 with second-class people because we don't pay as much? I 16 think the answer is no. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think it's a mixed bag, 18 Commissioner. I think it's a mixed bag. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: I think you find out the quality 20 after the fact. I think we're able to fill positions very 21 quickly, even at the very low end. I think one of the major 22 attractions is the health benefits package. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Without a doubt. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. And the -- yeah, 25 and the pension secondarily. But, basically, the health 7-28-06 bwk 166 1 package is an attraction. I think the Judge is right. We all 2 too often find out we didn't quite get what we thought we 3 would get. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Is that more true of blue 5 collar than it is clerical? Road and Bridge? Ag Barn? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I -- Road and Bridge, I'd -- 7 I'd make a wager that Leonard probably comes closer to getting 8 what he thinks he's getting, or what he's trying to get, 9 because of his experience of 35, 40 years dealing with 10 roadhands, and being in the various capacities he's been in 11 here. The -- the clerical, that's a department head or 12 elected official, and a lot of them don't have the supervisory 13 and hiring experience that Leonard has had. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah, okay. Seemed like 15 not very long ago, that if you needed a pair of hands for a 16 day out in the western part of the county, you could take your 17 pick at 6 bucks an hour. I think that's 12 now, or more. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Maids -- cleaning ladies 20 are getting at least 12. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: And, generally, they're having to be 22 either paid travel time or transportation, fuel costs, some 23 stipend for that, or both. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's true. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are you guys going to approve 7-28-06 bwk 167 1 to pay my -- the basic rate on my cell phone, if I use it for 2 in-county business? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The policy should be up and 4 down. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Even if I make one phone call 7 a month? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On your conscience, Buster. On 9 your conscience. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let your conscience be your 11 guide. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't know how much I use mine. It 13 will vary from time to time. Some months it'll be a bunch, 14 sometimes it will be very little. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, that's the way mine is 16 too. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I use mine a fair amount, but I 18 probably wouldn't put in for it, just because I don't -- 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm probably somewhere 20 between him and you. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I look at it a lot as that -- I 22 look at it, if the County's paying my phone bill, that means 23 they probably have the right to look at my phone bill, and I 24 don't know that I want them looking at my phone bill. I mean, 25 if you get a stipend, if you get a -- I'd just as soon 7-28-06 bwk 168 1 separate the two. I got my computer at home and all that, my 2 own personal stuff. 'Cause it's not going -- I don't think it 3 costs me any more to have -- to do my county business on the 4 phone than I'm -- than it's going to cost me if I don't have 5 to do county business on the phone. 6 MR. EMERSON: That's my experience. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, yes, I may use it 8 20 percent of the time, but it's not going to change my 9 minutes, 'cause I use it so much as it is. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's probably right. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I tend to think that 12 way too, but I guess my real question is, is how close are we 13 going to look at all of the employees and elected officials? 14 I mean, I kind of understand how you guys think, but all those 15 other folks out there, are we going to pay the basic rate of 16 $69 or whatever it is? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. 39, I think. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 39, whatever it is. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't see a reason why -- I 20 think, you know, law enforcement people need cell phones, some 21 of those folks. Road and Bridge has a couple which they need. 22 J.P.'s need them. That's about it. I don't think Linda 23 Uecker, Paula Rector, you know, Treasurer, County Clerk. Rex 24 maybe. I'm not -- you know, I'm not sure. But a lot of the 25 people I don't think need cell phones, unless they're going to 7-28-06 bwk 169 1 get rid of their office phone and use their cell phone 2 instead. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I don't know. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: J.P.'s do magistration, and I 5 think that's a requirement for them to be accessible on 6 weekends. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with that, yeah. I 8 agree with that, but I'm trying -- I'm trying to think, you 9 know, what would be Paula's argument against that? Hey, when 10 I'm driving, I go out to the -- when I'm driving out to the 11 Appraisal District office, and a thought comes and I got to 12 call back to the office -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What did she do before cell 15 phones? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's a convenience, maybe, to 17 have it, but I don't think it's a requirement. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: The County Clerk has attempted to 19 make the case previously that -- something to do with issuing 20 burial transports, that she's got to have a clerk on call to 21 issue burial transports, I think it is. Do you recall that? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, I do. One every 117 23 years. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: On the -- on the J.P.'s, the 25 magistration, it would seem like we could get one phone -- 7-28-06 bwk 170 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rotate it. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: That way, there's just one number. 3 You don't have to figure out who's on and what number to call. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, the J.P.'s and 5 magistrates, that's a set deal. I mean, if they're -- if it's 6 their weekend, on Saturday, I mean, they're going to have 7 somebody to magistrate. There's -- it's not like the jail 8 calls and says, "Hey, we've got some." That's not the case. 9 They're there. But the thing of -- what about a bad wreck on 10 10 at 4 o'clock Sunday morning? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Having to go out and do an inquest at 13 a scene? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That kind of stuff, see? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, and they normally are going to 16 call the J.P. of the precinct where that occurred. You're 17 right. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just think there's 19 something to that -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- deal. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think J.P.'s, I can see, and 23 it's not that huge amount. But most of the other offices, I 24 just really don't see the need for cell phones. I mean, I -- 25 if you want to use your personal one -- if Paula wants to use 7-28-06 bwk 171 1 her personal cell phone, fine, but the County shouldn't pay 2 for it. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, what we're saying, then, 4 is we designate -- we're going to designate who gets cell 5 phones and we pay their basic rate, and -- 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Or pay some flat rate amount. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Something. Yeah, something. 8 So, we're going to designate who gets it and who doesn't? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just -- well, I'm willing to 10 listen, but I really can't see the need for -- other than law 11 enforcement and J.P.'s needing cell phones. Road and Bridge 12 has a couple, but they don't have very many. They use radios 13 during the day, and then I think the supervisors have a cell 14 phone and Leonard, and that's about it. They don't have a 15 lot. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. That's right. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We -- on automobile 18 reimbursements, we use the state rate for out-of-county 19 travel, and there's a budgeted amount for that. We haven't 20 looked at the other automobile reimbursement in a long, long 21 time. It's still $100, isn't it? That's about two tanks of 22 gas. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You mean in the -- since we 24 rolled that into salaries sometime back? It's just a -- it's 25 a component of salaries. 7-28-06 bwk 172 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Seems like it was $1,200 2 when we rolled it in. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Which would be $100 a month. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's correct. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: What -- you recall, this past year 6 there was a discussion. I think -- I think the Tax Assessor 7 brought it up, come to think of it, of trying to figure 8 into -- those elected officials who routinely have to do 9 in-county travel -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Go to the bank. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, not just the bank. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: May have to go down to 13 Center Point and see about something; may have to go out to 14 Northwest Hills and various, sundry other places. Jon has to 15 go down to the east end, Dave to the west end. But those that 16 do a fair amount of travel, because of fuel costs getting 17 where they were, and I think that's probably where you're 18 going, and there was some discussion about that last year. 19 And, apparently, that one wasn't pursued or -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the -- I mean, not that it 21 may cover all of it, but that $1,200 that we set two or three 22 years ago has been raised by the COLA, so it's been increased. 23 It's not -- maybe not increased as much as it should have, but 24 it has been increased, because it's part of our salary. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It was put in place more 7-28-06 bwk 173 1 than two, three years ago. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Every time we get a COLA, that 3 number has been self-adjusting. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And it may not have been 6 adjusted because of fuel this year as much as the COLA is 7 going to adjust it, but it has been adjusted. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's true. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You rolled it in in 2002. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pardon? 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: In 2002, you made the 12 decision for 2003. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: To roll it in? 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No, it was the year before 15 that. It's been -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, it's five years? 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's been $1,200 plus 18 COLA's; been in place for five years. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So over that time, compounded, 20 it's probably close to a 20 -- 15 to 20 percent -- probably 21 16, 17 percent increase, so that travel allowance has been 22 increased 16 or 17 percent. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: As an example, Dave drives 24 from his house over to Mountain Home to the ESD meeting at 25 Mountain Home. He gets that in-county pay, plus he should get 7-28-06 bwk 174 1 hazardous pay for that; that's the most dangerous place on 2 earth. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: They're getting better. I 4 think they quit shooting at each other. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Required to check their guns at the 6 door. All of them. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I drove that long way 8 around Mountain Home to go to that funeral last Saturday, 9 64 miles. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Whoa. One-way or round-trip? 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: One-way, 64 miles out 12 there, and then I came back 27/39; it was 43 miles. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That was an $18 trip in 14 fuel, 20 miles a gallon. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Twenty miles to the gallon 16 is five times $3; that would be -- yeah, $15 trip. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the point. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. We're just 19 chit-chatting, Kathy. Let's adjourn. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Anybody else got anything else under 21 this wide, wide, wide agenda item here? I don't hear anything 22 else. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're going to get back to 24 City/County stuff on another agenda? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The 9th, when we meet with them. 7-28-06 bwk 175 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Huh? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We meet with them on the 9th. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're going to talk about 4 it. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: We can get back to it right now, if 6 you want to. This agenda item will cover it. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I -- just let me share 8 with you for a second my meeting with the Center Point 9 Volunteer Fire Department. I know you met with Ingram. I met 10 with the guys for about an hour or so last night, and just 11 laid out the picture and said, you know, I'm not looking for 12 concurrence, whether it's -- that you want to do this or don't 13 want do it. What I want to do is examine the issues, if it 14 has any merit at all. So, we talked about the issues, and, of 15 course, they -- they have a hard time understanding how the 16 City could arrive at its conclusions with respect to a new 17 contract, and the formula that the City Manager laid out is a 18 foreign concept to them. Be that as it may -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And everybody else. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, and everybody else. 21 When we really figured out what the issues were in terms of 22 manpower, facilities, equipment and so forth, it's probably 23 not doable in Center Point. Their assessment is we'd need at 24 least five people to work a 21-shift week. Right? What 25 you're working is a 21-shift week. So, there's -- that was a 7-28-06 bwk 176 1 major expense there. You got to barracks those people; you 2 got to house them. And you'd have to retrofit their firehouse 3 for that purpose or build a separate barracks or dormitory, 4 then equipment upgrades and so forth. So, that's probably not 5 feasible. And if that's not enough reason, their firehouse is 6 in the floodplain, and the last time we had a major flood over 7 there, they had water in the firehouse. So, that's another 8 very good reason. But they made -- they made a point, Buster, 9 that they wondered if maybe a better option for us to look at 10 would be to recreate the Kerrville South Volunteer Fire 11 Department. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd love it. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Huh? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd love it. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And they said, you know, 16 when you really stop to think about it from the -- from terms 17 of setup costs, response time, which I know is a very major 18 concern for you, he says you'd be better off -- the county 19 would be better served if you'd reestablish the Kerrville 20 South Fire Department. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Okay. Poof, there it 22 is. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Like magic, it's there. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What -- just playing 25 what-if. What if -- it's Center Point, you were talking to? 7-28-06 bwk 177 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pardon? 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That was Center Point? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What if we said to Center 5 Point, "Here's some seed money. You put a satellite over 6 there in Kerrville South, a satellite volunteer fire 7 department to kick-start things." 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's an interesting 9 thought, Dave. They -- I'm sure they all -- it's a pretty 10 tight-knit community, volunteer firefighters throughout the 11 county, and they know pretty much who's who and where's where. 12 And I'm not sure they'd latch onto that idea, but they -- I 13 know that there are a couple of them that have expressed 14 willingness to help us, and they believe that there are people 15 out there -- 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- who could help us 18 reestablish a fire department. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If you were going to go that 20 route, which is a very interesting thought, you'd want to do 21 it with Turtle Creek that presently has the -- that's their 22 coverage area. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So it would be Turtle Creek, 25 which is kind of -- they're not as hooty-snooty as Center 7-28-06 bwk 178 1 Point, but you're getting there. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We got a $360,000 bill. We 3 could probably come up with some pretty good seed money if we 4 didn't have to pay that bill. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's just a question of 6 finding a piece of property,. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I got some ideas on that. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do too. And building the 9 right building and -- but I think there's people out there. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let me tell you about 11 Ingram. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The Judge is going to be the 13 new chief. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Following on Bill, I met 15 with Ray Lynch, and I didn't talk a couple hours; Ray didn't 16 want to listen that long. I said, "This is not a plan and 17 it's not an offer, but what would you and your guys think 18 about if we wanted you to be available on something more than 19 a volunteer fire department basis, and handle activity -- fire 20 calls outside your primary area, and be willing to pay 21 something for you to do that?" He couldn't find anything 22 wrong with that. I think his only concern would be whether or 23 not his membership would be willing to make that kind of a -- 24 you said that -- talking about they're a tight-knit group. 25 That's kind of a vast cultural change. 7-28-06 bwk 179 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, very much so. And last 2 night -- you only talked to Ray Lynch, but last night I had 3 the whole fire company there. They were all there. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's what he's going to 5 do. He's going to, at their next meeting -- 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It is a major operational 7 change or cultural change for them. I guess, realistically, 8 it's tough to put your arms around that whole -- that whole 9 animal real quick. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're a tight-knit group, but 11 even tighter-knit group in each individual fire department. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. I talked to Dutch 13 Hintze, who's, by the way, stepped down as president of Hunt. 14 He's going to be spending quite a bit of time back east; his 15 mother is pretty ill, and she won't come down here. And you 16 all know Dutch. He can get on a soapbox pretty quick. And, 17 anyhow, he sent me a couple of papers about these issues, and 18 his -- I can get you copies of those. They're kind of 19 interesting. His -- when you sort through it all, his main 20 position is that all of us, Kerrville and volunteer fire 21 departments, have -- have mutual aid responsibilities, and 22 that's codified in Texas law. And -- and, moreover, to be 23 eligible for grants, Forest Service stuff and other things, 24 you have to perform your mutual aid responsibilities. He's 25 saying you don't need to be paying Kerrville. They have to 7-28-06 bwk 180 1 come out when you need their help. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That point was made last 3 night in my meeting. They agreed. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm there in my mind. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They agree with that. Why 6 are you paying for them to come out here? That's part of the 7 mutual aid. We go help them. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I talked to three fire 9 departments. Maybe I ought to talk to this -- and said, "How 10 often do you need help from Kerrville?" And Ray Lynch says, 11 "We like their personnel. We don't use their equipment, but 12 we like having some more hands out here." And I said, "When's 13 the last time you used them?" He said April. So, that's been 14 quite a while. Hunt says they've used them -- they stated 15 four times in 10 years. And Mountain Home is so disorganized, 16 I can't tell. My impression is that they don't have a great 17 need for them out there. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: My folks say maybe half a 19 dozen times in the last two years. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. They don't -- they're 21 not -- it's not a big amount of time. But I think Buster's 22 right. I mean, the logical choice is to get -- is to beef up 23 Turtle Creek and figure out how we do that. If it's building 24 a -- you know, through interlocal, would they consider doing 25 an ESD, Kerrville South and Turtle Creek, to get them some 7-28-06 bwk 181 1 more funds? As a second step, maybe, for -- or to have some 2 paid people? Or -- you know, I mean, what is the feeling of 3 Turtle Creek? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think they would consider 5 an ESD. We haven't talked about this thing of doing it in 6 Kerrville South or anything like that, putting a station in 7 Kerrville South. I haven't talked to them about that, but 8 they're -- they're receptive to talking about an ESD. I have 9 had some conversations with them about that. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What would be the response 11 time if they were just a volunteer fire department, not 12 full-time? What would be the response time? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If we had a station in 14 Kerrville South? 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I was thinking from Turtle 16 Creek to your -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, from Turtle Creek. Well, 18 you're talking about coming around 16 into town, then back out 19 there. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Quite a bit longer. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where's -- where is there a 22 station on Turtle Creek? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's right next to the 24 County-owned cemetery. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Across the road. 7-28-06 bwk 182 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Across the road. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Next to the old schoolhouse. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's right on the -- it's 4 brand-new. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, I know where it is. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Used to be further out, just by the 7 creek there, but they've moved it back up. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There are roads that come 9 through. There's a shortcut. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What would Ingram's 11 response time be to your house? Too long? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I -- yeah, it's all too long. 13 A structure fire is -- the structure's going to be burned down 14 by the time anybody gets there. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, but even -- 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We talked about that last 17 night, about the response time from either the west or from 18 the east, and to a Kerrville South fire or to the north. And, 19 of course, I think it's longer to come in from Center Point; I 20 think they agree. But once the bridge is open coming in from 21 Ingram, if it's a Kerrville South fire, it's going to cut off 22 a lot of response time. It's going to decrease that once that 23 bridge is open. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's true. That's true. 25 But the only thing we're talking about is structure fire. 7-28-06 bwk 183 1 Were not talking about a grass fire that the city of Kerrville 2 goes to anyway. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: My fire department's 4 telling me they don't -- they don't want any help from 5 Kerrville on grass fires. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: They have to drive around 8 the trucks to get to it. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They do have -- Kerrville has a 10 grass truck. I mean, if -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They do. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They have several off-road 13 trucks. Majority of them are not off-road trucks, but they 14 have a couple of off-road -- 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Center Point's new rig that 16 they've got, they got a brand-new -- the truck's not new, but 17 the rig is new. They've got front-end sprayer that sprays out 18 15, 20 feet. Now they don't have to get the truck in the 19 fire. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Good point. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There's property, Judge? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: I got two pieces of property in mind, 23 probably the same ones Buster's got in mind. It's in 24 Kerrville South. I need to talk to you about it. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Your front yard, Judge. 7-28-06 bwk 184 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, hadn't thought of that. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's wrong with right there? 3 Might be a little crowded, but, you know -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Nah, got a little room there over on 5 the -- over on the east side. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, I mean, I certainly don't 7 know Kerrville South like y'all do, but to get to a lot of the 8 areas in Kerrville South, even if you have the station in 9 Kerrville South, you're still never going to get to the house 10 before it burns down for a structure fire, because of the maze 11 of the roads out there. I mean, it's a -- it's of benefit 12 near where the -- you know, it's like in Center Point. I 13 mean, if it's near the firehouse or downtown Center Point, 14 they may be able to get there. But, in reality, if you have a 15 structure fire outside of the city of Kerrville, odds are 16 you're not going to get there in time, if you're a volunteer 17 fire department or not. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If my house catches on fire, 19 it's pretty -- pretty sure it's gone. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: The key is the ISO rating. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Say again? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: If you got the station, you can get 23 the proper ISO rating, whether they get there or not. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And another key is the water 7-28-06 bwk 185 1 quantity, 'cause in many cases you're fighting a fire with 2 what they've got on board the truck. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's right. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Right. Probably more of a 5 problem is water availability everywhere. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what I'm saying, 7 yeah. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the other thing is, it's a 9 -- well, Nimitz is in the city limits, isn't it? Or is it in 10 the county? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's in the county. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: It's not in the city limits? They 13 got the sewer line out there. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's county. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tell them to annex the dadgum 16 place. That's -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They won't do it. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But Nimitz is an issue, but I 19 cannot imagine that if there's a problem at Nimitz, Kerrville 20 Fire Department's not going to go out there as fast as 21 everybody else. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't -- oh, yeah, they 23 will. Sure they will. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thinking about how you 25 might do something there, I'm not sure you're aware of this or 7-28-06 bwk 186 1 not. The -- the two satellite firehouses for Hunt were both 2 given and paid for by homeowners' associations. Hunt didn't 3 put -- Hunt put trucks in them. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How about, when we get with the 5 City, go back and say, "We've looked at it; we've discussed it 6 with our fire departments. We figure, by law, you're 7 obligated under mutual aid agreement to assist." 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why don't we get Rex to say 9 that? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And go back to say we're willing 11 to fund at 125,000, same as we have been. No change. And we 12 think we're being generous. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I got to tell you, frankly, 14 the formula that's being advanced to us is ridiculous. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I'm at the point of 16 saying take 125,000 or, you know, don't take anything. You 17 still are obligated by -- we think, you know. Or, you know, 18 the alternative is you want us to tell all the volunteer fire 19 departments you're not allowed to go into the city of 20 Kerrville, which is stupid. We don't have that authority, 21 anyway. But that's their logic. I mean, it makes no sense to 22 me. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Capacity. Got a pipeline 24 that will -- the output is 100,000 barrels; you only want 25 20,000 barrels. Too bad, you got to buy 100,000. 7-28-06 bwk 187 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Bottom line is the question 2 I asked Mr. Hofmann the other day. If the County didn't 3 contract services with you, would you shut down one fire 4 station? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They'll build three more. 7 And we want you to pay for it. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Y'all touched on one topic 10 that I think that this Court needs to promote, and I've been 11 trying. I was in a homeowners' meeting out 16, Fredericksburg 12 Road out there on top of the hill. Had a big house fire out 13 there a couple years ago. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: That's where the Kerrville Fire 15 Department saved the slab, wasn't it? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They saved the slab. They 17 sure did. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: I thought I remembered that. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Washed the ashes off of it. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: About all they did. They ran 21 out of water real quick. And one of the concerns out there is 22 water availability, which in that little area, is -- there's a 23 little lake down there in that illegal subdivision, and 24 there's some water down there. So, Turtle Creek donated a 25 tanker truck -- an old tanker truck they had out there to that 7-28-06 bwk 188 1 little area out there, and then I started encouraging the 2 homeowners in the little group that had all the interest in 3 going around their neighborhood and actually mapping where 4 little water tanks are and where the swimming pools are and 5 that kind of thing. And, you know, build something -- a nice 6 map to provide to the city of Kerrville and to all volunteer 7 fire departments when you go out on these -- they used to call 8 that 7-mile hill. When you get out on 7-mile hill, here's 9 where the water is. I think we need to do that county-wide. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think almost -- 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would be helpful. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, very much so. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Part of that, almost every water 14 storage tank that's now installed has a fire adapter plug-in. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't know if they have to, 17 but I know the local well companies, every one that they've 18 done recently, I've seen them automatically put on. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Soil Conservation had a 20 program in there at one time to put in dry hydrants. The last 21 one I remember them doing was on Fall Creek Road, at -- what's 22 his name? -- Young's place, I think. He has a big lake out 23 there. But, you know, maybe we can get them reengaged in 24 that, 'cause that's a good program. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And it's not hard to put those 7-28-06 bwk 189 1 dry hydrants in. Just a matter of a couple hundred bucks. 2 Just got to basically have the right kind of thread that 3 matches the fire trucks. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: This just occurred to me. 5 If you call Ingram and Hunt out right now, there'll be a 6 handful of people that get there real quick, and the other 8 7 or 10 trucks will still be sitting there. And then, as more 8 people come in or as they need more help, they'll say, "Bring 9 out some more trucks; we need the water." That's what you're 10 saying. And they -- they'll wind up shuttling back and forth, 11 drafting water. All that is to say that maybe Ingram and Hunt 12 and some others could loan a truck apiece to the new Kerrville 13 South and say, "That's our truck, but you put it in your fire 14 department. And if we get a big deal out here where we need 15 it, we're going to come get it." And they probably never 16 would come and get it. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Until it could get up -- 18 till it could get equipped completely. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't know if they'd want 20 to do it, like to do it, but either one of those two 21 departments could do it. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Hunt -- Hunt and Ingram 23 probably -- Hunt probably has the greatest capacity, and 24 Ingram secondarily. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And Turtle Creek should. 7-28-06 bwk 190 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What have they got out 2 there, Buster? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, just a bunch of trucks; I 4 don't know one from the other. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are they red? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, they're yellow. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, yellow. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, that's what I know 9 about fire. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We got that fire put out? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And we've got a -- a workshop 12 10:30 Monday? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 10:30. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: 10:30 Monday. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It could have been 9:00, 16 'cause Buster's and my meeting has been canceled, but now it's 17 10:30. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, we can't repost it now. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. Too bad. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, we stand adjourned. 21 (Budget workshop adjourned at 3:01 p.m.) 22 - - - - - - - - - - 23 24 25 7-28-06 bwk 191 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my 5 capacity as County Clerk of the Commissioners Court 6 of Kerr County, Texas, at the time and place 7 heretofore set forth. 8 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 20th day of 9 September, 2006. 10 11 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 12 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 13 Certified Shorthand Reporter 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 7-28-06 bwk