1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Budget Workshop 10 Monday, July 31, 2006 11 10:30 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 DAVE NICHOLSON, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X July 31, 2006 2 PAGE 3 Review and discuss various matters with respect to FY 2006-07 Budget and matters having budgetary impact, 4 including but not limited to the following matters and/or the consideration of budgets for the following 5 departments: 6 Treasurer 7 Sheriff's Office 10 7 Jail 23 Courthouse Security 32 8 DPS 56 Road & Bridge 76 9 Juvenile Detention Facility 97 Environmental Health 106 10 Collections 134 Extension Service 136 11 County Sponsored 141 12 --- Adjourned 219 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 On Monday, July 31, 2006, at 10:30 a.m., a budget 2 workshop of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me call to order this budget 8 workshop of the Kerr County Commissioners Court scheduled for 9 this date and time, Monday, July 31st, 2006, at 10:30 a.m. We 10 have one holdover from last Friday, that being the County 11 Treasurer. The Treasurer asked, because of the necessity of 12 her being called out of town, that we roll her over until 13 Monday. As I indicated when I passed that along to the Court 14 last Friday, I'm not sure we can do anything meaningful with 15 her budget until we know where we are on the reorganization 16 issue of the human resources and so forth. Now, I'll leave it 17 to the Court for their opinion, but... 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 13. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Could I talk just a little 20 bit in general before we get started? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It will be relevant to 23 that, too. Let's do a brief analysis of where we are so far 24 and what we have to look at today. On personnel costs, taking 25 into account a 4.2 percent, moving 12's and 13's up, creating 7-31-06 bwk 4 1 an H.R. department, more people for the Clerk and for the 2 216th, et cetera, et cetera, right on down the line, we're 3 looking at increasing payroll by a million dollars. That's 4 where we stand right now. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A million dollars? 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Including roll-up. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Made me drop my pen. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's in -- how much of that is 9 the COLA? 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: 390. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Break it out, Dave. COLA? 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: 390 for COLA. 12's and 13 13's, 30,000. Clerks, deputies, 40. H.R. department, 75. 14 County Clerk overtime, 9. 216th District Attorney, 125. 15 Treasurer, down 49. Sheriff's Department, up 35 -- 135. 16 Sheriff's Department part-time, up 90. Chief Juvenile 17 Probation Officer eliminated, down 58. Road and Bridge crews, 18 up 30. Maintenance/Facilities, up 46. Ag Barn, I couldn't 19 make it out. Environmental Health, up 27. That comes up to 20 890. Then I roughed in roll-up, taxes and things like that, 21 135, and then I added on the Sheriff's schedule -- converting 22 to the new schedule at 39. All that comes to a hundred -- 23 1,064,000. That's just -- I think it -- I bring it up now 24 'cause it helps us focus -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, sure. 7-31-06 bwk 5 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- on the task. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can we get -- can you have 4 Kathy make a copy of that? 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, Kathy. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You're welcome. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: He's got his hat in his 9 hand looking for -- to spend more money. More deputies, more 10 cars. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What was his 135 for? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're going to find out here 13 in a minute. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We'll find out. I think 15 it's more -- I think it's more deputies. It's not -- you'll 16 see on it there. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. I didn't think we'd heard 18 from him yet. I thought maybe I fell asleep during his 19 segment. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I started out just to see 21 if we did what we semi -- well, if we did what we've talked 22 about so far, how much would it be, and then I just went on 23 and said I'll add on whatever anybody's asked for. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, the -- we discussed it 25 briefly, and the paper discussed it more at length, the 216th 7-31-06 bwk 6 1 being split or reconfigured, of carving out Bandera and 2 Kendall County. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the timing for something 5 like that, if it happens? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: The timing that would be looked at is 7 because of the considerations of the designation of who's 8 going to serve as the judge in that court. It'll be in a new 9 court, Bandera/Kendall; it'll take legislative action in '07. 10 Election -- the consensus that I heard from the counties that 11 would be directly affected, Kendall and Bandera wanted there 12 to be a direct election for that judge, which would mean the 13 election would take place in '08. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're a long ways off, in other 15 words? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, we're -- we're not -- we're 17 not -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It doesn't have any impact this 19 year on our budget. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: None this year, no. No. Now, I say 21 that. That's the discussion -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: -- that I was privy to. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it takes legislative action. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, it would take legislative 7-31-06 bwk 7 1 action. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. No matter what, it 3 wouldn't happen this year. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Judge, I agree with you 5 about the Treasurer's budget. I can't see what we'd do until 6 we figure out those other things. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the submission and -- and my -- 8 my action on it was prior to any restructuring or 9 reorganization aspects. Unless there's something that I don't 10 know, I -- I don't see how we can move forward on that until 11 we -- we get the other portion of it figured out. 12 MS. NEMEC: May I give y'all a copy of my latest 13 proposal, for your information? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, sure. I wasn't aware there was 15 one. 16 MS. NEMEC: There's five right there. Thank you. 17 (Discussion off the record.) 18 MS. NEMEC: And of course, I had mentioned before 19 that I was willing to keep those duties as long as I had the 20 staff to do it with, but that's not included in there. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, this new budget, it's your 22 statutory duties? 23 MS. NEMEC: Right. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's included in that? 25 MS. NEMEC: And what that includes -- in my 7-31-06 bwk 8 1 part-time line item, what that includes is Jacqui going back 2 to three days a week. Right now, she's working five days a 3 week. I think if payroll and human resources is done by 4 someone else, or if it's done in my office with the staff, 5 then I'll be able to eliminate her -- her duties to where she 6 can go back to the three days a week. And then that's 7 including a person coming in three days a week just to help 8 out. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, you have two part-time? 10 MS. NEMEC: Two part-time. And that second 11 part-time person is something that we could work with. I'm 12 just not sure, you know, how often we would need that person. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: So, the -- we're not talking about 14 two part-times three days a week each? 15 MS. NEMEC: Yes, right -- right now, that's what's 16 being proposed. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. That's what the number there 18 calculates? 19 MS. NEMEC: That includes Jacqui. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Part-time three days per week each. 21 MS. NEMEC: Right now, Jacqui's working five days a 22 week. She just can't keep up with all the accounts payable 23 and accounts receivable. But I should be able to help her 24 with that on the first of -- 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What would be the 7-31-06 bwk 9 1 responsibilities of the second person if H.R. and payroll 2 leave the Treasurer's office? 3 MS. NEMEC: There's still a lot of payroll 4 responsibilities that -- that are going to be -- have to be 5 kept in my office. The -- we're still going to have to do the 6 distribution of the paychecks. We're going to have to do the 7 941's, all the child support, all the insurance payments, 8 workers -- payments on the worker's comp and unemployment; all 9 those payments are still going to have to be processed through 10 my office. So, there's a lot that is not being transferred 11 over because of my statutory duties. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, just referring to the 13 preparation of payroll, not the actual disbursement of checks. 14 MS. NEMEC: Right, no. And, like I said, that -- 15 that second part-time person, we may be able to do it with 16 just two days a week. We may be able to do it with, you know, 17 not a second part-time person at all. I just -- I just don't 18 know at this point what the workload -- how it's going to be, 19 if accounts receivable and accounts payable has really 20 increased. And I know Jacqui needs help in that area, but I'm 21 hoping to be able to step in there. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? Are we ready to move 24 on, gentlemen? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 7-31-06 bwk 10 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to the Sheriff. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Uh-oh. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What was that, Commissioner? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tab 16. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 16. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm stumbling over Line 1. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are we asking questions or are 8 you presenting? 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We can do it either way. The 10 Judge, in his preliminary analysis -- I have no problems with 11 any of the changes he made. Except -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Except. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Except Line Item 455, 560-455 14 in the Sheriff's Office under Vehicle Equipment. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which line item? 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: 455. It's 560-455. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay, Vehicle Equipment. 19 You'll see in there we've always had 10,000 in there. That 20 has been in there because of -- what it does is -- is, it 21 replaces car video cameras or things like that that could go 22 wrong on a vehicle at any time during a year. When I don't 23 use it, such as this year, 'cause I haven't had to replace 24 any, then it all comes back. Now, he cut it down to 3,000, 25 which may work, except one car video camera is about 4,000 to 7-31-06 bwk 11 1 5,000, depending on -- on what type you replace it with. So, 2 just to replace one, if you want to cut it down from 10 to 3 replacing one, I'd like to see it at least 4,000 to 5,000. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 4,000? 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And the rest would have to come 6 out of my seizure. Four would be all right on that one; up it 7 from three to four. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let's talk about some of 9 the big numbers, Sheriff. Your proposed budget is up 350,000, 10 more or less, over last year's budget. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Mm-hmm. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Is almost all of that gain 13 in people costs? 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No -- well, the biggest 15 majority, yes. In the Sheriff's Office. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let's talk about -- 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Employees. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let's talk about the 19 deputies and the dispatchers, and we'll talk about jailers 20 after a while. Why is deputies and dispatchers up so much? 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm asking for three 22 dispatchers. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Three? 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Three. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How many do you have now? 7-31-06 bwk 12 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I have seven total. Equals out 2 to one dispatcher per shift. And that has been the same 3 number of dispatchers since, I guess, year 2000-2001. We're 4 at -- our call ratio is too much now, too increased. I really 5 need to have two dispatchers on duty at a time. The only way 6 to have two dispatchers on duty at a time is to have a total 7 of 10 dispatchers, so that would be an addition of three. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Would you just hazard a 9 guess at how much money would be saved if we consolidated the 10 K.P.D. dispatch into to Sheriff's Department and put PSAP 11 there? 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm really not sure, because 13 there is a -- a major cost difference in what you'd have to 14 work out with salaries. My dispatch supervisor's salary 15 compared to the City's dispatch supervisor's salary, you're 16 talking over $20,000 difference right there. That's one of my 17 employees, just in the difference in that salary. So, how you 18 would -- would actually equal out the way they pay their 19 overtime and -- and just pay it, and we give time off, you 20 know, and try and limp by instead of paying that much 21 overtime, I'm just not sure how it would work. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Other than those kind of 23 details that have to be worked out, is there any reason not to 24 do that? 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, if you're talking -- 7-31-06 bwk 13 1 you're combining everything, you know, 'cause we do 2 dispatching for, like, Ingram Marshal's Office at night, so 3 you're talking Sheriff's Office dispatch, Ingram dispatch, 4 9-1-1 dispatch, Fire Department dispatch, EMS dispatch. I 5 would think at that time, you're going to have to pretty well 6 keep -- to keep that going, probably four dispatchers on duty 7 at a time. If you take into account the state ratio, five 8 people to fill one full-time position, counting days off, then 9 you're talking 20 dispatchers. I don't know if we'd be saving 10 any on personnel. I think we -- if you combine theirs and 11 ours, you know, you may eliminate one or two positions; you 12 may not eliminate any. I'm not positive -- well, wait a 13 minute. I may have something that says how many dispatchers 14 they currently have. They have 10 full-time dispatchers right 15 now, so you wouldn't be eliminating any personnel. I have 16 seven, and I'm asking for three. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What's the increase on 18 deputies' salaries? 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The increase there is -- all 20 that is on deputy's salary, and that was figured -- it needs 21 to be refigured. Nancy was off all last week. It's going to 22 go down, because those first proposals we came in with trying 23 to get the step and grade fixed were at a higher percentage 24 before the Court adopted the half-step in between them, so you 25 were really looking at almost a full step for most of those, 7-31-06 bwk 14 1 trying to fit them in. Average, you can probably take 2 and a 2 half percent off that. And I couldn't swear to that. We just 3 need to run the numbers, and I haven't had a chance to rerun 4 those numbers. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, basically, this increase 6 that we're looking at today is -- is catching up the things 7 that we have done wrong in the years past? 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. But it won't be as big 9 there, okay? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not any new deputies in 11 there? 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. No. The only other thing 13 that's in there is, there are three -- and this was agreed to 14 a long time ago when we created the narcotics unit. I have 15 three officers that are in that narcotics unit that, because 16 they're all investigators, this Court created -- several years 17 ago, we moved all the investigators up to sergeants from 18 patrol, and this is putting those three up at the sergeant 19 level instead of patrol. 'Cause I have one that's in there as 20 a sergeant, and I need the other three without -- that's the 21 investigator's pay, and they are investigators. So, that's 22 the only increase. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Commissioners, on this 24 analysis of increased personnel costs, I see I missed the 25 dispatching increase, so I probably missed some other stuff 7-31-06 bwk 15 1 too. But, anyhow, that -- 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Only new personnel I'm asking 3 for at all in the Sheriff's Office is three dispatchers. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is what? 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Is three dispatchers. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, there was this 152 7 increase on the deputy line item. Is that -- does that 8 include the COLA that the Court's discussing? 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I believe that did. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Because if the COLA's got to 11 go on top of that, that makes a major problem. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, I believe that did include 13 it. I can rerun those numbers since Nancy's back now; we can 14 give you a more accurate on the deputy salary by this 15 afternoon. On all the salaries. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, the -- 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I can have that done. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On the sheet that Dave prepared, 19 basically, where it says Sheriff's Department, it should be 20 95,000 for dispatch, and then you have the 39 -- the Sheriff's 21 schedules already added on. That's the only difference that 22 would be in the deputies' line item, adding three dispatchers. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, it's actually a little bit 25 of a reduction off of -- 7-31-06 bwk 16 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I didn't follow you there. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I know. We have a sheet that 4 you don't have. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. All right. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But I am asking for three 8 dispatchers. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Capital Outlay. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Hmm? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Cars. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I am -- going down the line, 13 the other one that I was talking about were -- and it's not 14 much, under Maintenance Contracts, 560-457, the Judge's 15 proposal cut this from my asking of 33,303 to 30,000. That 16 33,303 is an actual figure of what those maintenance contracts 17 are going to cost. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: That's your ongoing fixed cost? 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes, for this coming year. 20 That is not a -- that's going to have to stay there. And then 21 the Capital Outlay gives you four patrol cars. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Four? 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Four. That's first year's 24 payment on four patrol cars, but I believe if you look into -- 25 oh, where is my -- lease payments, if you go back and look at 7-31-06 bwk 17 1 that from this current year to next year, you'll see that, 2 just about, that's an even swap, because we paid off some 3 cars. My requested budget in lease payments last year, it was 4 63,023. This coming year, I'm asking for 35,984. I didn't 5 ask for anything in capital outlay yet this year, but now I'm 6 asking for the 36,155 to include four more patrol cars for the 7 first payment. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How many vehicles are you 9 going to retire out of your fleet? 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm going to retire four out. 11 We're -- this 36 is with four trading in. We are moving a 12 couple of them around, just to replace the oldest ones that we 13 have that are running in the jail, and then, since we do have 14 the narcotics investigators, instead of buying other used 15 cars, we have moved some of the white patrol cars, unmarked 16 them, taken everything off of them. They will be the regular 17 investigators, so that the narcotics investigators drive 18 different kinds of cars. So, we're retiring four. And I 19 don't -- I believe -- Tommy, is this our last year of payment 20 on cars that we currently have? Because last year, the Court 21 did not buy any cars. We bought them out of what we did have 22 in seizure, and we paid for them fully outright. It wasn't a 23 lease; we paid them totally, and so they were bought with 24 seizure, which didn't add any lease payments. And I think 25 this -- this is the last time we have -- all the cars will be 7-31-06 bwk 18 1 paid for until we get into these next four. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. So, the lease payments -- 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think maybe one more. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The lease payments -- 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's one more, because that's 6 why I cut it down to the 35. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, but it's -- you have 30 8 -- well, the Judge ran it -- 36,000 for lease payments. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Does that include the four new 11 cars? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Capital Outlay, you see four 14 new cars, 36,155, okay? Lease payment, I guess there is one 15 year left to pay on one set of cars, which is cutting it to 16 the 35,984, and the Judge rounded it to 36. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, the capital outlay of 18 36,155 is the first increment of a lease? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For four vehicles. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. All right. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: After that, it rolls over and 25 gets put on lease payments. 7-31-06 bwk 19 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Not capital outlay any more. 3 That's all I had in -- in jail, unless y'all had any other -- 4 or in Sheriff's Office, unless y'all had any other questions 5 for me. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I think you answered this, but I want 7 to make sure I understand it. The lease payments that we've 8 got in the body of your budget is not one and the same as the 9 capital outlay that you're asking for? 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the -- that's a payment on 12 some existing vehicles that we acquired prior to last -- this 13 past year. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right, that's the last set of 15 payments -- 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- on existing vehicles. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: For lease payments. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Sheriff, what percent of 21 your emergency calls are relayed to you from K.P.D. versus 22 those that come direct to you? 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Everything that comes in on 911 24 is relayed from K.P.D. I haven't split that out to see what 25 the ratio is. It's probably going to be 75 percent, just 7-31-06 bwk 20 1 'cause most people do use 911. Okay. We may get 25 percent 2 that aren't, or we may get -- you know, a lot of it is before 3 K.P.D. even transfers a call over, we hear them dispatching 4 EMS or fire already to a scene. Just -- I have the radio, and 5 we respond to the scene. Some of my dispatchers, just to give 6 you an example -- you know, you have to take out anything with 7 phone, okay? Don't even look at phone calls right now, and 8 that's a big majority. Radio logs alone -- and I was hoping 9 that our new Odyssey could print this out, but I didn't want 10 to print out 1,400 pages. Radio log entries alone this year, 11 in one year's period, was 47,000. Okay? That's just one very 12 small part of what those dispatchers do. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Radio, 47,000 contacts. 14 Everybody in Kerr County contacted you once. Except me. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But that would -- does that 16 cover -- say I dialed the 1216 number. That's one contact? 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, I'm not talking any of 18 that. I'm just talking direct contact to the -- from the 19 dispatchers to the deputy and the radio logs, what it keeps, 20 is 46,000. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's calls out. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Calls out from the dispatchers 23 to the department. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: 47,000 calls from your 25 dispatcher to your deputy. 7-31-06 bwk 21 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah, on radio logs. That's no 2 incoming phone calls. And you know what we're going through 3 right now with incoming phone calls. I mean, it's just -- 4 it's unfortunate, but it's kind of like what I sat here and 5 listened to -- to the District Judges tell you and the Clerk, 6 from what I read in the paper -- I wasn't here; it's just -- I 7 don't know what's going on, but it's a drastic increase. Last 8 month alone, one month, was 555 civil papers processed through 9 our one office that handles civil papers. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You'd think, in a county 11 that's got a lot more of older population than other counties, 12 the percent, you'd think that we'd have less law enforcement 13 activity. Are these old -- old codgers out robbing banks? 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Older population call us a lot, 15 too. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Do they? How so? 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We get calls on prowlers, you 18 know, whatever it is, the scams -- you know, phone scams. You 19 name it, they call. Wrecks. You know, whatever it is. It's 20 -- used to be, when I grew up, you know, it was the last thing 21 parents would have ever done is called law enforcement over 22 anything, and I think any law enforcement officer will tell 23 you, nowadays that's gone. They call law enforcement over 24 everything, and you're expected to be there right then, and 25 you have to respond. And it's hard to be a public servant if 7-31-06 bwk 22 1 you start doing what Bexar County and them do, is don't 2 respond to some of those type calls. If they have a burglary, 3 "Well, fine, come down to the office and fill out the form." 4 I still believe in working those burglaries and solving cases. 5 It takes a lot of people. It's a difference. It's whatever 6 type of law enforcement we want to provide to our citizens. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did you call them "old 8 codgers"? 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You'll get there, Buster, 10 if you -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: What do you mean, he'll get there? 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Self-denial. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm heading toward 14 geezerville. I don't know about this codger thing. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They're cousins. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Want to move on to the jail? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You see a different makeup. 19 I've been getting a lot of calls, and I know Rusty and them 20 have been going to -- out on Junction Highway, there's a 21 restaurant of some sort that has loud music. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And I'm going to tell you, 24 all those people across the river over there, every one of 25 them call. It's the darndest thing I've ever seen. 7-31-06 bwk 23 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I get those, and I get them 2 about the Elks Lodge, too. They rent out their place and get 3 some band that will be playing at 1 o'clock, 2 o'clock in the 4 morning. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The jail budget, going down to 6 Vehicle Maintenance, 512-454, we can -- the Judge cut it from 7 3,000 to 1,500. We can try that. It's just that's normally 8 where our older patrol cars that we do rotate out go. And 9 then B.J.'s truck is getting more miles on it; we're having to 10 do more work. I'm just concerned about cutting that to 1,500. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is now the appropriate time 12 to talk about getting B.J. a big mule and a shotgun? 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Wagon and -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, a wagon. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Glad to see him back and crews 16 back on the roads. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. We're still adding a few 18 more to that crew. I need to get a few more out for him. 19 He's got a couple right now, just getting -- you know, it's 20 unfortunate, the population -- inmate population we see, it's 21 getting harder and harder to pick ones that you feel would be 22 safe to the public. I mean, it's just the class of inmates. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Rusty, in looking at 24 personnel costs, I haven't totaled those -- all those 25 categories up. It looks like they're a little bit lower. 7-31-06 bwk 24 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I did -- well, that's some -- 2 we will have some newer employees. I had some turnover this 3 year. Nurse's salary has probably gone down, because, 4 remember, the Court -- I lost one old -- one very longtime 5 nurse who was up there pretty high, and then, of course, that 6 started back at a Step 1. Plus the second nurse that I am 7 having -- the Court had authorized me to use EMT's or 8 paramedics or -- or different classifications, so we started 9 those. There is one up, and that's a clerk. I've asked for 10 one more clerk in the jail, and that is under medical. I'm 11 asking for a medical clerk who -- that increase could change, 12 depending on what y'all do with 12's and 13's, because the 13 medical clerk will start out at a 12. Our medical filing or 14 medical increases is just drastic. It's way too big a 15 liability not to get these records entered into the system in 16 a timely manner, and I'm just at the point, we -- I don't have 17 a medical clerk at all. Never have. The nurses have been 18 having to do that. We just can't do it any more, with all of 19 their medical problems. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How did you arrive at a 21 16 percent increase on group insurance? 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That is what was figured in 23 last year, and we just -- since that's what they told us to 24 figure last year, I don't think it's 16 percent. That sounds 25 a little high. 7-31-06 bwk 25 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It is. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But it's whatever the actual 3 group insurance increases are projected. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rusty, is there -- on the 5 medical clerk, if we do what we're thinking of with indigent 6 health care and declaring all inmates indigent automatically, 7 trying to get some more of this work done through the 8 hospital, will that help any? 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Unfortunately, that won't help 10 one bit in that. When inmates -- the medical files now, when 11 an inmate comes in, you have to have a jail file that keeps 12 everything; criminal, all that kind of stuff. You also have 13 to have a total separate file, which is a medical file. Any 14 past medical or new -- future prescriptions, all that stuff 15 has to stay in there. So, the indigent, you know, that will 16 cut my medical budget down. It'll go over to your indigent 17 budget, but it will not do anything with the records we have 18 to keep. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And that's where I'm drowning. 21 I'm pulling people all the time, even jail staff, clerical, 22 even my secretary has gone back trying to enter and get us -- 23 keep us caught up. And I've got a stack right now, literally, 24 about 3 foot deep of medical records to get entered. We just 25 can't get it done. 7-31-06 bwk 26 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The food costs are up. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Projected by about 11 and a 4 half percent. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that because your inmate 7 population is greater? 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Not necessarily. My inmate 9 population is up some, but overall average, it's not -- 10 probably up 6 or 7. But it's the -- just the food costs 11 themselves, what Ms. Krauss has seen coming down, buying it, 12 and with fuel costs going up, we're estimating that that's 13 about where we're going to be. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Transportation costs has driven 15 everything up. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Everything's going up. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you still taking 18 prisoners from any other counties? If so, at what per diem 19 rate? 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: $37 per day when we do take 21 them. I have a couple from Llano right now, and that's about 22 it. I have not opened up taking so many. I think Junction 23 may have one or two that they just didn't have space for, but 24 we don't take them in large scale like we have been for -- for 25 Bandera. The other deal on the food costs that's up just a 7-31-06 bwk 27 1 little bit is we provide the meals for the juvenile detention. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We are getting reimbursed, and 4 that goes back into the general budget. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. You're not providing 6 them gratis; you're getting reimbursed? 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We are getting reimbursed, but 8 that's not figured in here 'cause I don't -- they haven't been 9 putting it back in here. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: But that's within -- included within 11 your cost? 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The cost increase is included 13 in my cost. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: You may not have enough, then. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I got enough. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Ms. Krauss is extremely well at 18 how she prepares meals and doing it by scratch. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You asked for 200,000 on 20 the utilities, up from 125. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And the recommendation was 23 175. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. My 200,000 was looking at 25 some of the bills and where it looks like it's going. And 7-31-06 bwk 28 1 those utilities cover the entire building, jail and Sheriff's 2 Office. Not separated out. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is the -- the reason the 4 projected year-end is lower is because the summer months 5 weren't included? Do you have an idea what the July bill is? 6 Or the last bill? 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I do not. I don't recall. 8 Tommy may have it. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: May want to increase that. We 10 need to check that before we finalize. And maintenance 11 contracts, there was a question mark there from the Judge. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That is -- most of it is our 14 live scan machine, and that -- that's presettled contracts. I 15 can't change that. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: When does that become due? 'Cause 17 you haven't paid anything as of this point in time. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right towards the end. I think 19 we may have just paid it or something. It's one of those that 20 comes due at the end of the year. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: So that's about an $8,000 hit. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think, you know, that -- I'm 23 hoping, depending on how the indigency deal works, if you -- 24 this always upsets me, but if you look at prisoner medical, 25 and we're running -- 80,000 is what we have in there, and I 7-31-06 bwk 29 1 can promise you, that's what I asked for. But depending on 2 what this new program does, just in the last month alone, I 3 know we spent probably 15,000. And so 80,000 -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: When will the program be kicked 5 off? 6 MR. TOMLINSON: It'll be September 1. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: September 1? 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm hoping at this point you 9 can move all my medical out of that, put it in wherever your 10 indigency goes. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that something we -- I mean, 12 is that going to work that way, Tommy, that we can take it out 13 of here and -- 'cause, I mean, we already budgeted for it on 14 the indigent side. We'll need to increase that to make the 15 maximum amount. 16 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah, we have to increase it to the 17 max. The -- for the eligible expenses. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why don't we, I mean, do it 19 where don't we do that? Take it out of here completely and 20 put it in the indigent line item, increase it to the 21 8 percent. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The only part of it you will 23 have to leave in there is the doctor's fees. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How much is that? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: 600 a month. 7-31-06 bwk 30 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, it -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Or is it 1,200 a month? 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Closer to 1,200. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: It's 600 each half, then? 5 MR. TOMLINSON: There may be -- there may be costs 6 that indigent health care won't cover, too. So -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But leave 20,000, maybe, here to 8 cover the doctor and -- 9 MR. TOMLINSON: There are -- sometimes there are 10 instances that might not be covered. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that also under the new 12 program to pick up prescription costs? 13 MR. TOMLINSON: Oh, yes. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So we can -- they can go down to 15 20,000, and then we increase the other to the max. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The medical -- prisoner 17 medical. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The doctor's requesting his to 19 go up to 1,500 a month, and that was figured in there, too. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: $7,500 -- no, more than that. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Rusty, go back to -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 18,000. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- 106. Are you adding 24 another nurse? Is that what you said? 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. If you look at 106, the 7-31-06 bwk 31 1 reason it's so low there is we pretty well skimped along with 2 just one nurse, okay, most of the year. It was originally 3 budgeted -- get the right line -- at 71,230 this year, okay? 4 And most of the year we skimped along without one. Our next 5 budget request, even with the correction in the pay scale that 6 was done and everything, 63,405, so it dropped it down even 7 with that. That's 'cause they replaced the one now with an 8 EMT and not a nurse. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No more big seizures to help 11 offset some of these costs? 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Not right now. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Work harder. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You can't offset them with 15 seizures anyhow, technically, but we do. We bought cars last 16 year; that's why we did that. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Buy stuff. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And we have -- I've replaced a 19 number of computers with seizures. We've replaced a lot of 20 things. It's just -- you know, last week I had a transmission 21 go out on a car that I hated to see it go out, 'cause it's one 22 we got to keep, and so now we're talking an additional 3,000 23 on that. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Did we skip Courthouse 25 Security? 7-31-06 bwk 32 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, just haven't done that one 2 yet. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Are we through with the jail? Let's 4 go to Courthouse Security, then. First question I got is, the 5 -- looks like we've got two insurance costs folded in there. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Two insurance costs? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. Group insurance. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes, you do. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: We got one deputy, right? 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I had -- had some mixup on my 11 part. No, because -- because down at the -- this is the way 12 they do it. You got one deputy, but at the bottom of it, 493 13 says Bailiffs. I've asked for one bailiff. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: At a lower salary than the 16 deputy. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's another increase in 18 personnel costs that's not on my list. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We're trying to do the best we 21 can. That -- if you do grant that, that is a bailiff, not a 22 deputy. That is not an armed peace officer; that is a bailiff 23 to help work with the juries, work with the Judge that we have 24 to do, and in getting things for them, moving them around, and 25 just general work inside the courtroom. That would free up my 7-31-06 bwk 33 1 bailiff to work security and moving inmates, helping us move 2 inmates from over there. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Not a certified police 4 officer? 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Would not be a certified police 6 officer. We would run him through our jail school so I could 7 actually have him as a certified corrections officer, so he 8 understands what's going on. But he would not be a certified 9 peace officer. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What's the justification 11 for adding it? 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: For? 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Justification for adding 14 that. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Because right now, what I'm 16 hoping for -- right now, district court days, we're 17 transporting -- which is normally once a week at least, okay, 18 on just the district court -- we're transporting over 60 19 inmates over here. County Court days, I think this last one 20 was up close to 30, okay. Our -- our volume and number of 21 inmates having to come over is -- has drastically increased, 22 and this will allow -- where Chuck is doing a lot of things, 23 just running papers back and forth for the judges, plea 24 bargains, doing what a bailiff is supposed to be doing, I'm 25 having to call in -- like, on district court days, I call in 7-31-06 bwk 34 1 an entire second jail shift to just come over here and help 2 with courthouse security on district court days. 'Cause I 3 only have five jailers at a time. It takes that many to run 4 60 inmates where you've lost your big security in transporting 5 them back and forth, so we're spending a whole lot more, where 6 if I could add that second person as a bailiff, he can help 7 out with the courts where I can keep my armed officer helping 8 out with the inmates. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So you don't have to be a 10 certified law enforcement officer to transport prisoners? 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You want them to if you can. 12 We normally follow them over. No, a jailer can transport 13 prisoners. Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Could this function be 15 outsourced? 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I would not. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Call a cab for them? 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I would not. I would never 19 outsource it. I'm responsible for the security, to make sure 20 those inmates don't escape, and they're going to try. And 21 that's something I would not ever feel comfortable in doing. 22 I want total control over -- over our security issues and the 23 way we deal with the inmates. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: In some places, your 25 transport officer is specially trained as a transport officer. 7-31-06 bwk 35 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes, you can train them that -- 2 and I can arm jailers when they're on duty, okay? What we 3 normally try and do, though, is whoever's driving that van 4 with, you know, 15 inmates in it, we have armory, but it's not 5 where an inmate can get ahold of it. We take the security 6 issues very seriously. But it's not -- if you notice, the 7 people that are dealing directly with the inmate, okay, the 8 ones that get them out of the cells, things like that, are not 9 armed. There will be an armed one near, but that one's not. 10 I don't want what happens in a lot of counties where you have 11 an inmate get ahold of an officer's gun. A lot of issues. 12 And we're just -- you know, you choose -- Tuesdays are court 13 days, Thursdays are court days, Fridays are court days, and a 14 lot of days Mondays are, and this is running constantly. The 15 one thing that -- I don't know if we went back in the jail and 16 looked at my jail overtime. Current budget was 33; I asked 17 for 37. The Judge didn't -- didn't change that. And unless 18 we can make some changes somewhere -- and what's really 19 concerning me, as of last week, which is running a month 20 behind on our -- on our, you know, bills and where we are 21 normally, I was 25 percent over budget on jail overtime, 22 'cause I'm having to call in so many people to work these -- 23 the courthouse on different things we have going. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Are you aware of any law 25 enforcement agency anywhere that outsources prisoner 7-31-06 bwk 36 1 transportation? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There are some that have 4 contract jails where they outsource their entire jails, so I'm 5 sure that they're probably part of those. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: But you don't know of any 7 county sheriff that hires someone from the outside -- a firm 8 to do their transportation? 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't know of any, but I've 10 never looked into it, 'cause I couldn't consider it. You 11 know, I mean, I -- I couldn't. It's just -- it's getting too 12 dangerous. When you take people like some of those that we've 13 had, and have to bring them over, and you've lowered your 14 security issue because they're outside that jail, that's when 15 your security gets the most important. And that would be the 16 last place I'd want to outsource that. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, you hire a cop to haul 18 people to Florida. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Still a peace officer operating 20 under your license. I don't -- I have my own. They do hire 21 transportation to serve transport for moving one that's 22 arrested, say, in Washington. If we can't afford it, that 23 Transcor will move them here, or TDC will. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What are we talking about 25 here, adding a bailiff? 7-31-06 bwk 37 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Adding one bailiff. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What's the salary on that 3 bailiff? 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: 26,869 is what we put in there. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Does that include roll-ups? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That one may not include COLA. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Does not include the 9 roll-ups? 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Same as the jail salary. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, 26,8 plus all the other 12 roll-ups? 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The FICA and all that? That's 14 already added in. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's in there. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Not in the 26; it's added 17 higher up. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Shoot, I may resign here and 20 apply for that thing, get me a pay raise. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Buster. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I get to carry a gun. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, one thing I would never do 24 is allow Buster Baldwin to carry a gun. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Nether would my wife. 7-31-06 bwk 38 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Will you give him a badge? 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Forget it. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Unless you can still find it in 5 crackerjack boxes. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: And the other thing is the new 7 scanner -- 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: -- you're asking for. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I've asked for one new scanner 11 for the district. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For here? 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: For the courthouse. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Don't we have two now? 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We have two. One is not 16 functioning correctly. The other one is way outdated. We 17 bought those in about 1990, something like that. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Are they obsolete, unusable? 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They're obsolete. You can't 20 even find them any more, and they're not as effective as they 21 should be. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the scanner run? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: 37. It's attached there. Okay, 24 anybody else got anything for the Sheriff? 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I will get you the newest, most 7-31-06 bwk 39 1 accurate figures I can on actual salaries this afternoon. In 2 doing those, do you want COLA figured into those? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, I'd rather let it all be 4 done here. Just give us the figures. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What kind of turnover 6 experience have you had this year with your deputies and 7 jailers? 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Deputies, pretty well zero, 9 okay? Our deputies are doing real well. I think the Court 10 addressed that and has taken care of it. Jail staff, I still, 11 and probably always will, fight a pretty good turnover rate. 12 Most of it's due to corrections officers wanting to move up 13 and become peace officers. It doesn't work with my 12-hour 14 shifts, doesn't work with our scheduling. They have a hard 15 time doing it, so they quit. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Or they get offered something a 18 little bit better. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not the most pleasant place 20 to be. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's -- it's extremely 22 difficult, and it's getting worse and worse every year. It's 23 probably one of the most stressful, hardest jobs, you know. 24 And then they do go through a lot. Unfortunately, Clay called 25 me, you know, 5 o'clock Sunday morning; an inmate tried to 7-31-06 bwk 40 1 hang himself. And that's -- that type of stuff happens way 2 too often. Jailers have to make 15-minute checks on -- on 3 inmates around the clock, seven days a week. It gets 4 extremely stressful. This inmate did it because he did not 5 want to get out of jail. He was fixing to get released; he 6 has no place to go. He had swung at a jailer before. The 7 stress, you know, the -- when you have some of them -- we're 8 becoming more and more like a State Hospital annex because of 9 the -- the mental problems, and, you know, we've had -- in 10 just the last year, I've had urine, feces, everything else 11 thrown on jailers, and the jailers bit. I've had them kicked, 12 punched. It's just everything, because we're becoming a 13 mental hospital. And it's -- the stress on jail staff has 14 quadrupled in just the last couple years, just 'cause of the 15 way the State's doing things. And it's -- and then with our 16 own courts bogging down and not moving them through, you know, 17 you're dealing with them even longer. And it's really gotten 18 to where it's a hard position to keep. People don't realize 19 it's not a baby-sitting job. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's your average jail 21 population now? 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: About 155. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 155? 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. If we stayed at the 25 80 percent, you're talking about 153, but it's just going to 7-31-06 bwk 41 1 start going up a little. We've done real well; the County 2 Court has helped out a lot since Rex took office keeping it 3 down. But, you know, as you hear, they're getting bogged 4 down. That's starting to change. A lot of things are. I've 5 restructured my way of doing things. It's a good time to try 6 and control inmate problems and disciplinary problems so 7 they're eligible for more -- 8 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't have it with me, but I don't 9 think we generate enough funds in security fees to -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Courthouse security? 11 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah, to satisfy that budget. So -- 12 so, we might consider putting a bailiff in some other 13 department. I don't know what that would be, but it 14 actually -- if that bailiff -- the way you describe it, is 15 really not a security person. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 17 MR. TOMLINSON: So, to make the budget work, we may 18 need to consider putting them somewhere else. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. I believe that the 20 amount that the security fees normally bring in in years past 21 has normally just covered the one security officer's salary. 22 So, about -- that 30-something thousand, this 26 would 23 probably be close to 25 above whatever that security fee's 24 going to -- 25 MR. TOMLINSON: I know. 7-31-06 bwk 42 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- going to cover. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tommy, you mean, like, put it 3 under District Clerk's? 4 MR. TOMLINSON: Something. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that what you're saying? 6 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't have that -- 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Bailiff doesn't have to be 8 under the Sheriff's Office. If y'all will recall -- Buster 9 can, I know -- we used to have the Cheneys years ago; they 10 were the bailiffs. They took care of all that other stuff. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They had their own budget, or 12 done under District Judge. 13 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't -- that was before me, so I 14 don't know. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But they took care of jurors 16 and -- and the judges and that. And it may be one that -- if 17 it could be put under, you know, Commissioners Court or 18 whatever, because we do need one more now in County Court at 19 Law, juvenile court, A.G. court, and the two district courts. 20 You've got a lot more of that running around being done. 21 Chuck is doing it now. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What -- can you go over again 23 what you envision this person doing? 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You have to have a bailiff in 25 court, okay? The bailiff is in charge of the jury. They're 7-31-06 bwk 43 1 in charge of taking care of whatever the Judge needs, okay? 2 And that is -- there is a statute for that. Years ago, it was 3 Mr. and Ms. Cheney. That's whether it's -- it's making sure 4 your jurors are well-taken care of back in the jury room, 5 making sure they're not interfered with or contacted by any 6 witness or anything like that. All -- their whole duty is to 7 take care of the Judge and the jury. What we've been doing 8 for the last number of -- 15 years, probably, since the 9 Cheneys retired, is we've rolled the courthouse security, the 10 security officer for those courtrooms, in with that bailiff 11 job, so now you have a security officer that's in charge of 12 nothing but security doing all that that the bailiffs should 13 be doing, which is taking him out of view of doing his 14 security duties, and he just can't secure the courtroom. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can you put it under Jury Fund? 16 MR. TOMLINSON: We can. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, it seems like that's 18 a -- 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Maybe. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It would fit, but I don't know 21 if it's dedicated money for that, either. But -- 22 MR. TOMLINSON: But, you know, it's something that's 23 going to have to be funded with -- with general fund tax 24 dollars. So, the only -- only alternative would be to 25 transfer the funds from the general fund into this one to -- 7-31-06 bwk 44 1 to make the -- to make the -- to balance the budget. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Another thing that ought to be 3 looked at, this would be a position that had not been used, 4 and a lot of times what I used in figuring the salaries for 5 this position was the same salary that a jailer makes, okay? 6 So if you were to put it under something else, you may not 7 want to use that salary scale, although they are busy and 8 there's a lot going on. And then I was going to train them as 9 a jailer so that they could -- State Jail Commission says 10 anybody I do have in any inmate contact one way or another, 11 okay, has to be certified as -- as a jailer, so I was going to 12 have them certified as a jailer just in case we had to escort 13 one to a restroom or something like that while we've got court 14 going on -- the bailiff. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I think that's a good idea, because 16 there's going to be an obvious need for that individual to 17 have contact with prisoners or potential prisoners. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But I felt it should stay under 19 the Courthouse Security so that future -- if you put it just 20 under jailers and add a new jailer, future sheriffs or 21 whatever may not -- may not remember what we're talking about; 22 then that person gets called back to help out at the jail, and 23 he's not doing what this Court intended for it to do. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What would this person do on 25 days when we don't have juries? 7-31-06 bwk 45 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If you don't have juries, then 2 on those, I'll be honest, I can use him to help transport. 3 Hospital calls, medical, doctor visits, we're doing that 4 constantly. I can use him on that, but he needs to be in the 5 budget to where nobody can get him confused with a regular 6 jailer. That here he's actually assigned -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, we do have days without 8 trials or juries, or certainly not all day. They may have 9 them, but they're not going to last all day. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So there's a fair amount of -- I 12 mean, the person has to have other responsibilities in 13 addition to. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I would envision, you know, 15 transporting of inmates and that to a lot of the doctor stuff, 16 but I don't know if y'all envision the receptionist or monitor 17 here at the courthouse. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can constables be used in 19 this capacity? 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I cannot tell a constable what 21 to do. And I have -- 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That wasn't my question. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Constables can do any and all 24 law enforcement duties that I or any of my deputies can do. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 7-31-06 bwk 46 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Is this a -- is this a job 2 that your jailers would prefer, as opposed to being a 3 jailkeeper? 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Probably. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, in this regard, instead 6 of adding it over here, adding a jailer and then either 7 assigning one of them or rotating among them would be an 8 alternative? 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You could do that. The only 10 thing I was trying to do is make sure it stayed under the 11 Courthouse Security so that no matter what happened in the 12 future, that person is supposed to be here. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm really kind of serious 14 about this. Is there -- is it not a possibility that this 15 responsibility could be shared by the constables? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I know they can't -- 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You put me in a bad position, 18 but what I'm going to tell you is, it's kind of like what I 19 think we're going through some with the Treasurer on 20 constitutional duties and duties they have to do and are 21 required to do, okay? It's -- it's just going to be a 22 cooperation issue, and that they can or would come in and do 23 these type duties. I think some -- some courts do use their 24 constables. They are coming in and helping a whole lot with 25 courthouse stuff. 7-31-06 bwk 47 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's why I asked the 2 question. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Some sheriff's offices, the 4 constables are doing all their inmate transports, you know, if 5 they get arrested out of county, okay? We used to have a 6 constable that did a lot of that, you know. But I -- I am not 7 in the position that I can tell any other elected official 8 what they should do. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: If we -- would they be more 10 cooperative if we paid them -- the ones that participated in 11 transport or courthouse use, paid them more? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Perhaps. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I mean, I think this goes 14 back to the bigger discussion we had several years ago when we 15 gave them cars and some other things, increased their 16 salaries. There was an expectation by me, I think by the 17 Court -- 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- that they were supposed to do 20 more work to assist the Sheriff in areas. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You have to remember, you also 22 have several constables, not all of them, that also have other 23 jobs. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, that's another matter. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But that's -- that would 7-31-06 bwk 48 1 definitely affect this. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's not our concern. Our 3 concern is trying to help find a way to provide bailiff 4 services that you're asking for. How many days a week on 5 average, 52 weeks a year, are bailiff services required? 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Probably three. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Three days a week. We got 8 four constables. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And that three would be 10 probably close to the most, unless there's a trial. You know, 11 the -- if there's one of them four-day trials or two-day 12 trials, then, yeah, you got to have them all the time. But 13 just for regular court stuff, probably three days a week. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's a good point. I 15 think we need to look at that as an alternative. And, I mean, 16 Rusty -- I understand Rusty can't do it, but we can -- we 17 can't make them do it either, but we can say, "Your pay 18 includes it, in our mind. If you don't do it, your pay's 19 going down." 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And the problem with that, 21 though -- 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You like the stick better 23 than you like the carrot, don't you? 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They do have certain 25 constitutional duties that they have to do, like be in their 7-31-06 bwk 49 1 J.P.'s courtroom on their J.P. court days and things like 2 that. So, it depends on -- you know, now you're adding four 3 other court days into the mix that they have to be responsible 4 for. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I still see it as -- like 6 Rusty really sees it, and let's say that we have a court date 7 and a constable just decides that he wants to be somewhere 8 else and doesn't go. You know, he doesn't -- he doesn't have 9 a hammer to drop on that person. I think it would be safer to 10 add a Sheriff's Department employee doing that, myself. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's -- I don't disagree 12 with that. I just think that we need to get our dollar's 13 worth from the constables, and they're in law enforcement, and 14 if we can encourage them to -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- participate in transport or 17 -- or something in the law enforcement area that -- help with 18 warrants or whatever -- 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's where I'm coming 20 from. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There is -- there is one last 22 thing, talking to Mr. Trolinger this morning, and after 23 y'all's discussion, evidently, with him last week, that 24 probably does need to be changed or you need to look at. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where are we? 7-31-06 bwk 50 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Under the Sheriff's Office 2 budget, under Line Item 563, which is Software Maintenance, I 3 had cut that down to 2,134 for the year. One reason is 4 'cause, as you remember, we haven't been billed a lot of times 5 for our stuff, but if you actually look at the -- at the 6 brochure that The Software Group has sent out, okay, our 7 yearly maintenance fees should be $6,676. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How much? 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: 6,676 for the Sheriff's Office. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So that's what you think it's 11 going to? Mr. Trolinger? 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's what we should probably 13 budget for, too. 14 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, software maintenance for the 16 Sheriff is $6,700? 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Wait till we go to the jail. 18 MR. TROLINGER: For law enforcement. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Wait a minute. Don't get off on that 20 one. I don't think we addressed the issue of operating 21 equipment there at the tail end. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Let me get back to that. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're right, Judge, we 24 didn't. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That is covering deer guards 7-31-06 bwk 51 1 and that for the new cars and -- which one is that? 569? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Kind of like the vehicle repair and 3 maintenance, isn't it? 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, no. If we get new cars, 5 I have to have new deer guards. Let me find my explanation. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You can't use the deer guards 7 off of old cars? 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They normally don't fit. We 9 tried, but they normally don't fit. If they haven't been -- 10 569, and it is also our match on bulletproof vests that we pay 11 each year. We have a grant that pays part. We've got -- this 12 pays part. We've got a lot coming due. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: You see my concern is, you spent zero 14 this year, at least up through this point. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Up to right now. I have to do 16 a draw-down on the bulletproof vest grant. I need to do it 17 before September 1, and then we'll repay part of that when we 18 go out. But what 569 does, it's a match needed on the grant 19 to replace more of the bulletproof vests and other operating 20 equipment that may need to be replaced, such as cameras or -- 21 or handheld mics, things like that on the officers, and then 22 the deer guards. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Doesn't any of this stuff last more 24 than a year or two? We need to find a different supplier, it 25 seems to me like. 7-31-06 bwk 52 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's not the supplier; it's the 2 amount that it gets used. And not all of it gets replaced 3 each year, okay? Just part of it. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's the software number? 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: $6,676 in the Sheriff's Office. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 6,676. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That was the one we all have a 8 hard time dealing with. Under the Sheriff's Office -- I mean 9 the jail, under Software Maintenance, as you can tell, we had 10 not been billed for the years -- not much of it before this 11 last year. I cut it down, kind of concerned -- or not really 12 worried, thinking that a lot of this maintenance wasn't going 13 to be necessary. But now we're going to have to go back up to 14 what the budget was, 'cause if you look at their figures, what 15 it's going to be is 23,824. That's what we -- 16 JUDGE TINLEY: You're telling me on the jail budget, 17 our software maintenance is going to 24,000? 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. If you look, what I had 19 currently budgeted was 23,488 -- 23,488 for this current year. 20 But -- and I hate to say it very loudly -- a lot of times, we 21 don't get billed for it, so it just goes back. But if you 22 look at their figures in their -- in their deal, it will be -- 23 and you add that up, and this is their maintenance schedule 24 that you can look at county-wide, it's going to end up being 25 23,800. 7-31-06 bwk 53 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Is it not common or normal, when you 2 bring in a new software system, that when it gets put in, that 3 any upgrades during the first year -- at least the first year, 4 sometimes more than that, are included? 5 MR. TROLINGER: Well, yes and no. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Which one? 7 MR. TROLINGER: On the financial side, yes, because 8 that was essentially another branch of Software Group. On -- 9 on the courts and the jail, no, because we're continuing -- 10 what we've done is we've got an addendum to the Odyssey 11 contract that says no increases in that maintenance cost for 12 five years. That was -- that was the negotiation that took 13 place on maintenance when we went to Odyssey. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Isn't there a warranty 15 period on the new software packages? Initial warranty period? 16 MR. TOMLINSON: A lot of them don't have to do a 17 warranty. A lot of maintenance has to do with changes in the 18 law. Every time you get a change in Austin, I mean, whether 19 it be a fee or a change in the penal code or whatever it might 20 be, it has -- anything to do with courts or the Sheriff or the 21 jail, there has to be reprogramming done to take care of that. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: As opposed to a whole new 23 way to do something? 24 MR. TOMLINSON: Right. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A new module. 7-31-06 bwk 54 1 MR. TOMLINSON: Right. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: And so this maintenance contract, 4 they -- what I -- they've anticipated, probably -- based on 5 historical need, they have come up with -- with an amount that 6 they feel like will compensate them for reprogramming day to 7 day, telephone calls. If we have an issue with any part of 8 software, we -- we telephone them; they get back with us. Or 9 we -- we may ask them to make changes in -- in the program. 10 We may ask them to write specific reports. There's all kinds 11 of issues that -- that change from month to month, and so 12 that -- this contract is put in place to make sure that -- 13 that our software is maintained at the highest level that 14 we -- that it can be. Otherwise, the alternative to that 15 would be to hire a programmer in-house to do the same thing. 16 MR. TROLINGER: And I looked at that also. I took 17 the total cost of software county-wide and rounded it off to 18 -- well, what the -- what actually is being paid, $115,000 per 19 year for next year. Now, that includes Appraisal District and 20 Probation also. It's not just -- just courthouse and jail. 21 But I looked at the cost of a programmer -- a database 22 programmer and an assistant for support, and that would just 23 get us to scrape by at the same level that we get from 24 Software right now. And I estimated that at $138,000 per year 25 to bring it in-house. So -- 7-31-06 bwk 55 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If you can find it. 2 MR. TROLINGER: If we can get those people. That's 3 a big deal also. So what I've seen is, what we're paying for 4 from Software Group is -- is well worth it. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What is extremely important, 6 especially Legislature and law changes, D.P.S. changes, 7 anything an officer -- you have D.P.S. codes for every 8 offense, along with the penal code, and that's how all this 9 stuff gets reported automatically through the computer. If 10 they change -- lower the classification of an offense, change 11 it from, you know, a second-degree to a state jail or 12 whatever, all those updates, Software Group takes care of 13 instantly and -- and does it in their maintenance, so it 14 doesn't mess up any of our reporting that goes in to Austin, 15 or that it doesn't show a guy being booked in on a, you know, 16 second-degree felony when it's really a first-degree felony, 17 if it went up or down to third or whatever. It's just -- 18 there's a massive amount of changes that have to take place, 19 even if there's just one penal code change, and that's what 20 they do. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Are we through kicking that 22 one around? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Guess so. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Is that it? 7-31-06 bwk 56 1 JUDGE TINLEY: That brings us to D.P.S. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tab 19. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: 19. Sergeant, you may want to hurry. 4 Whoever's up -- 5 SGT. CUMMINS: This shouldn't take long at all. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: -- when we hit high noon gets to buy 7 lunch for the rest of us. 8 SGT. CUMMINS: All right, I'll get it done. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: We might hang on to you for a while. 10 By way of introduction, the good sergeant called me months ago 11 and said, "For goodness sakes, if you guys are going to bail 12 out on us, let us know now, because we're going to have to 13 marshal our forces and go to Austin and get some money in the 14 state budget, and it real soon gets to be too late to do 15 that." I had not heard any -- anything expressed by anybody 16 on the Court that we were going to do that, so if we bail out 17 on him now, look out. He's going to be on the warpath. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm driving 35 miles an 19 hour from here on out. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: You sure will. 21 SGT. CUMMINS: That's basically why I'm here, to 22 just make a request that we continue to have a state-paid -- 23 or a County-paid secretary at our office, which would 24 include -- actually, the budget -- total budget is going to be 25 reduced for that position by about $5,000 with the retirement 7-31-06 bwk 57 1 of Mrs. Damron. The salary will obviously go down, so that 2 will reduce the budget by $5,000. This part of ours, it does 3 include a telephone to the intoxilyzer, which is at the 4 Sheriff's Department. And on here it says telephones, but we 5 have pagers that, it's my understanding, the County has 6 provided in the past for the troopers. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sergeant, for the benefit of 8 -- there's some press in the room, as well as citizens. Would 9 you explain to us once again how a county employee assists you 10 and how it, bottom line, helps the county? 11 SGT. CUMMINS: Well, over the years -- I'm sure 12 anybody in law enforcement can tell you this -- the amount of 13 paperwork that is generated has just gone through the roof. 14 You -- as the elected officials, if you can do anything to 15 reduce it, you've got all our support, but I don't think 16 that's going to happen. With the amount of paperwork, what 17 happens is, right now I've got five troopers in Kerrville. 18 We're supposed to have six, but there's already one that's 19 transferred here; he's just not here yet. Anytime they go out 20 and do anything, it generates paperwork. Well, this is being 21 maybe a little selfish, but I -- you know, we expect them to 22 work. Well, the more work that they do, the more paperwork 23 they generate, which means that that secretary position in our 24 office works a lot harder, a lot more. And I can tell you 25 that, just from my experience, that there's a lot of times 7-31-06 bwk 58 1 that Mrs. Damron is not home at 5 o'clock. Now, she -- she's 2 on a salary and she gets paid 40 hours a week, but I -- I 3 assure you that we get every bit of that 40 hours. Almost 4 every time she takes a lunch, it's at the office. She hardly 5 ever goes home, and there's a lot of times that she's there 6 till 7:00, 8 o'clock at night just to help me. So, it doesn't 7 matter if it's a citation, we write a warning, someone we put 8 in jail, anything like that creates a tremendous amount of 9 paperwork. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Sergeant, could I say to my 11 constituents, the fact that we have this clerk in your office 12 improves law enforcement and generates additional revenues. 13 SGT. CUMMINS: Yes, sir. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: By keeping your men on -- 15 men and women on the road. 16 SGT. CUMMINS: The bottom line is, if we don't have 17 that position, it's going to drastically increase the number 18 of hours that each trooper has to spend in the office, which 19 is going to reduce the revenue for the county. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So you'd say -- 21 SGT. CUMMINS: That's the bottom line. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- it's a good business 23 decision? 24 SGT. CUMMINS: In my opinion, yes, sir, it is. 25 It's -- in the long run, it's just going to benefit the county 7-31-06 bwk 59 1 to continue to have that position. It's $38,000, $40,000. We 2 wrote around 4,000 citations -- just citations -- in the last 3 fiscal year. The first $96 of every citation goes to the 4 state. Anything above that goes to your county where the 5 citation was written, and if you've ever looked at the fines 6 on the citations, the lowest one is around $150, $160. So, 7 you can -- you can see the numbers add up really quick. And 8 this is a very conservative figure, because there's other 9 troopers that work in this county also besides just mine. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just working Kerr County? 11 Or working Kerr County and some surrounding -- 12 SGT. CUMMINS: What I did is added up just the 13 troopers in Kerr County, but the truth is, I've got troopers 14 in Kendall County and Kimble County that also write citations 15 in Kerr County, and there's troopers out of Fredericksburg 16 that do the same thing. Now, by the same token, not every 17 citation that one of my troopers writes is in Kerr County. 18 They work in other counties also, so this is kind of a -- a 19 conservative figure. But it's well worth it, in my opinion. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What counties are under Kerr 21 County's office? Is it just Kerr County? 22 SGT. CUMMINS: I cover Kerr County, Kendall, and 23 Kimble, which is a pretty big area as far as sergeant areas. 24 It's about 150 -- 115 miles of interstate, not to mention the 25 other roads in the county. And we appreciate everything that 7-31-06 bwk 60 1 the Sheriff's Department does for us. Like I said, there's 2 only five of us, and sometimes there's one trooper or no 3 trooper at all working in the county. In situations like 4 that, the deputies for the Sheriff have done a great job in 5 helping us any way that they can, and we appreciate it. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there assistance provided by 7 the other two counties, something along this line? Like -- 8 SGT. CUMMINS: Yes. And I can tell you my 9 experience in the past with other counties which I've worked 10 in. In Kendall County, we've got three vehicles over there. 11 Two of the vehicles are equipped with MBT computers in their 12 -- in their car, which they're provided by the city. In 13 Kimble County, we just -- the Sheriff's Department purchased 14 four or five digital cameras for the troopers. And there's 15 only one car in Kimble County, so one camera went over there, 16 but three of them went to Kerr County. So, there -- there is 17 assistance provided, and we appreciate everything that -- that 18 they can do for us. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We used to provide radar 20 units for them. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 22 SGT. CUMMINS: And that's the way we used to do it 23 where I'm from. We would always get radar units, but the 24 State has taken up that and they're actually providing pretty 25 good radar units. 7-31-06 bwk 61 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How big of them. That is so 2 nice. 3 SGT. CUMMINS: They're expensive, yes, sir. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I think what they did, we ended up 5 with the old units for constables and whatnot. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: That we used. Anything else for the 9 sergeant? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think it's a good 11 investment. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah, I think so too. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Sergeant, we appreciate it. 14 SGT. CUMMINS: Yes, sir. 15 MR. TROLINGER: Judge Tinley, I've got some input on 16 this. I didn't know that was a county employee, and I've got 17 a recommendation. It's -- it's related to Odyssey. And if we 18 could, if we could connect the D.P.S. office to the county 19 network, they could have access to Odyssey for data entry. 20 One of the huge things that the J.P.'s deal with is data entry 21 on -- I believe on citations, with having to type it in, and 22 we might take a look at that and see if we can get some 23 efficiency, maybe avoid some double entry that might be 24 happening. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Excellent. 7-31-06 bwk 62 1 JUDGE TINLEY: This also would seem to be, with 2 Ms. Damron retiring, an excellent time to plug it in, with the 3 new employee coming on board. And it -- it might appreciably 4 improve that individual's efficiency. 5 MR. TROLINGER: So, for that cost of the 6 connectivity, I'm going to estimate to start it up and connect 7 it, $2,200 for the next fiscal year. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That wouldn't be a bad 9 investment either. 10 MR. TROLINGER: And that's a rough estimate. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that software maintenance? 12 MR. TROLINGER: That's just strictly getting the 13 computer connected to the county network. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You have to buy -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Just the hard cost? 16 MR. TROLINGER: Just the -- just the cost of the 17 physical connectivity and the hardware. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: What about an additional license? 19 MR. TROLINGER: Not needed. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We wouldn't need -- we have the 22 software? 23 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. It's just a matter of a 24 little bit of training from the Justice of the Peace offices 25 to teach data entry. 7-31-06 bwk 63 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, you estimate about what, 2 about 2,500? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: 22. 4 MR. TROLINGER: 22, rough estimate. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm assuming you'd agree with 6 that and sign off on it and -- 7 SGT. CUMMINS: I would agree with you. I just ask 8 you to realize that that's going to increase the workload of 9 that position, because we write a lot of citations, and if one 10 person is going to be entering those that now you have four 11 different J.P.'s offices doing, that's going to increase the 12 workload on that individual. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't think that's what 14 he's saying. 15 MR. TROLINGER: I wasn't really moving that way. I 16 was -- and it's -- you know, it works both ways, because 17 you'll have access to the county system to be able to look up 18 cases, et cetera. 19 SGT. CUMMINS: Now, that would be great. I am all 20 for that. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're not suggesting you 22 take on the J.P.'s work. 23 SGT. CUMMINS: Okay. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: But whatever data you enter, you 25 know, would be entered into a master system, and I think it 7-31-06 bwk 64 1 would be -- 2 SGT. CUMMINS: We'd love to have -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: It will increase efficiency. 4 SGT. CUMMINS: Yes. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Your officers would get CJIS to 6 dispose of cases right there on the computer instead of having 7 to come research like they do now. 8 SGT. CUMMINS: That would help us a lot. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Hopefully, this thing will be a 10 win-win deal. That's what we're looking for. 11 SGT. CUMMINS: Just -- she just got a brand new 12 computer, so -- 13 MR. TROLINGER: It would be a good first step to get 14 them connected to the county network, see where we go from 15 there. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Is your new employee on board now? 17 SGT. CUMMINS: To replace Ms. Damron? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 19 SGT. CUMMINS: No. No, sir. We're waiting to hear 20 how you want us to hire her or him. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 22 SGT. CUMMINS: I didn't want to bring it up in 23 Commissioners Court, but we would really like to have that 24 position filled at the beginning of the fiscal year, because 25 Mrs. Damron -- her last day is September the 8th. 7-31-06 bwk 65 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 2 SGT. CUMMINS: By the 1st of October, we would 3 really like to have that position filled. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: September 8th? 5 SGT. CUMMINS: We just need some guidelines and 6 input on how to fill that position. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wouldn't it be wise to bring 8 them in a little early while -- while Ms. Damron's still there 9 and get some training? 10 SGT. CUMMINS: If we could do that and y'all would 11 approve it, we would be all for that, because she could help 12 train that person. But there would be some overlap, and -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I think it would be 14 awful wise. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Of course, that's going to be in this 16 current budget year. We'll find some funds there. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Couple weeks -- two weeks 19 probably be helpful? 20 SGT. CUMMINS: Yes, sir. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The question is actually, you 22 need guidelines as to who hires this person and how that -- 23 SGT. CUMMINS: I know how it has been done in the 24 past, what I've been told, but that's been a long time ago. 25 She's been the employee there for a long time. 7-31-06 bwk 66 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What did you say her 2 retirement date is? 3 SGT. CUMMINS: September 8th. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, you've got between 5 September 8 and September 30 of current salary. 6 SGT. CUMMINS: Yes. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can you use that? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How -- how is it done? Are 9 you going to come to the Commissioners Court with a 10 recommendation? 11 SGT. CUMMINS: In the past, I was told that the -- 12 that the applicants came in to the Highway Patrol sergeant's 13 office, and he hired them. Now, we would want to have some 14 kind of basic screening, maybe a typing test and some clerical 15 entry test, and then probably have an interview board with 16 some people there at the office. However, that's -- that's 17 depending on the County's requirements in hiring that 18 position. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Only thing I would 20 recommend on that is that we let it be known around our group 21 of employees that there's a -- a county -- a job on the county 22 payroll that's available, and see if there's any good 23 candidates inside. 24 SGT. CUMMINS: Yes. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It could be posted. 7-31-06 bwk 67 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: May or may not be. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. I certainly would not presume 3 to want to hire your employee, though, sergeant. 4 SGT. CUMMINS: Well, we just -- I didn't know if 5 there's some guidelines on how long you have to post an 6 opening. We have a ton of guidelines that we have to follow, 7 but this being a County-funded position, that's kind of up to 8 you. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'd do it the way your 10 guidelines say. And -- 11 SGT. CUMMINS: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And make that information 13 about the opening available to our employees so that they -- 14 SGT. CUMMINS: Yes. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And then I don't want to be 16 involved in the process. 17 SGT. CUMMINS: Maybe we can get the paper here to 18 give us a little spot in the paper that there's an opening. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: You're suggesting for free? 20 SGT. CUMMINS: Well -- 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We just pay to run an ad. 22 SGT. CUMMINS: Doesn't matter to me. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, wouldn't it, though -- 24 wouldn't he need -- because it is a county employee, wouldn't 25 it just, for the record, him come in here for final approval 7-31-06 bwk 68 1 or a nod of the head or something? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that's probably right. 3 And I think we need to make sure that it fits our step and 4 grade charts, you know, on salary level; that we're putting 5 the person at the right slot. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think in that context, 7 too, you do a little balancing act on the dollars. Since you 8 know you've got three weeks of salary, approximately, left on 9 the current one, you can use that to get this person in and 10 trained to take over. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, when he finds somebody 12 he wants to hire, it would be good for him to come back in 13 here to one of our Court meetings? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: At least get it confirmed. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think it would be -- 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Would that be an executive 17 session item? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not really. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Executive session only if we had 21 any questions about the employee. If we didn't have any 22 questions, it would just be an open session. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, we don't want to keep 24 you here all day. 25 SGT. CUMMINS: That's okay. 7-31-06 bwk 69 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think it would probably be 2 wise to do a court order, you know, filling that slot, so -- 3 just something for the record. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think you're right. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Sergeant, you may have escaped buying 7 lunch. 8 SGT. CUMMINS: Good. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Barely. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: About three minutes. 11 SGT. CUMMINS: All right. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. 13 SGT. CUMMINS: Yes, sir. Thank y'all. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Appreciate your work. 15 SGT. CUMMINS: Thank you. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Leonard, looks like lunch is on you. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Peanut butter sandwiches. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Eat more sandwiches. 19 MR. ODOM: Y'all want to try that with five minutes? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 21 MR. ODOM: All right. Won't take me that long, I 22 don't think. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you kidding? Are you 24 kidding? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's see where we can go, though. 7-31-06 bwk 70 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Now, Judge, let me -- point 2 of order. One of the Precinct 4 constituents who has a 3 request of Road and Bridge is here, and I'd like to get -- if 4 we need to hear from them, I'd like to get to that before we 5 break for lunch so he doesn't have to spend the day here. 6 Could I go ahead and introduce that? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, we're in a budget workshop, is 8 my only concern, Commissioner. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: He's asking for money. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Well, the way I drafted this 11 -- this agenda, anything that has budgetary impact could be 12 considered. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, it's John Matthews, 14 and I'll just say what he's asking for, he and his neighbors, 15 and then maybe we'll just go on to -- back to the start of the 16 budget. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. If we got any questions, we 18 can ask Mr. Matthews. Go ahead. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: This is John Matthews, and 20 he -- 21 MR. MATTHEWS: Hi, how are you? 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: He and 25 of his neighbors 23 who live around the Waltonia Crossing area on the Guadalupe, 24 they live in Pleasure Hill and -- and Bumble Bee right there 25 that have property. 7-31-06 bwk 71 1 JUDGE TINLEY: North side of the river? All on the 2 north side? 3 MR. MATTHEWS: No, we're on both sides, actually. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Both sides, yeah. And 5 they're asking -- and I quote, "would like to have a coffer 6 dam built at Waltonia Crossing to maintain the river at a 7 constant level, plus or minus 2 inches." The background on 8 that is that there's been a coffer dam of sorts there out of 9 natural materials, gravel and rock, that's kept Waltonia -- 10 the river above Waltonia crossing at more or less a -- a 11 constant level, but lately that's not been working and water 12 levels are dropping. Procedurally, I've checked with -- with 13 the state authorities, and what it would take to build a 14 coffer dam there would be a permit from the T.C.E.Q. And to 15 get that permit, we'd also need to have the Watermaster and 16 the Fish and Game people endorsing it, signing off on it. I'm 17 pretty sure I know the Fish and Game people would say yeah, it 18 would be an improvement over what we got now in terms of the 19 spawn and everything like that. But, anyhow, I wanted to -- 20 to give Mr. Matthews the opportunity to say anything he'd like 21 in support of spending money to build a coffer dam. 22 MR. MATTHEWS: Well, the problem was originally 23 caused 50 years ago by the county road people. That was 24 always a low-water crossing. What occurred, there was 25 several -- actually several inches of water running over the 7-31-06 bwk 72 1 road. They came and put a dry roadbed in, but when they put 2 the dry roadbed in, they built -- they dug a culvert 3 underneath there that actually let way too much water out. 4 So -- but instead of building, like, a spillway, like you have 5 at the dam that maintains the level, they piled a bunch of 6 rocks up there. Well, every weekend in warm weather, kids go 7 down there and play, and they move the rocks and they play in 8 the swamp water, and the river drops 6, 8 inches. And then 9 somebody will go down there and build them back up. I've done 10 it several times. I'm getting too old to do it now, but I've 11 gone down there several times and built it back up, and the 12 water will come back up. But it really needs to have 13 something poured in there. 14 Mr. Baldwin was up there one time -- this was 15 several years ago -- that -- because one of the people that 16 lives on the river there, his waterfront had sunk, and he 17 wanted the water lower, so he took a backhoe down there and 18 moved all the rocks. Well, Fish and Game came up there and 19 they told him to stop doing that. Well, that's fine, but 20 that's one person's been told to stop doing it. It has 21 nothing to do with all these kids that maybe weren't even born 22 yet. And -- and it's a constant, ongoing problem. But now 23 with the -- in the drought -- in the drought season, the water 24 -- the flow is down anyway, so once it gets lowered, even if 25 you fix it, it takes longer to fill it back up. It's not 7-31-06 bwk 73 1 going to be a dam. It's not going to stop the water flow. 2 It's got to fill up, and then you'll have the same water flow. 3 But -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: John, does it -- does it 5 affect -- I know Mr. Trolinger's family's upstream there a 6 little ways. Does it affect draining water anywhere? Aren't 7 there some pipes that are just barely under -- 8 MR. MATTHEWS: There are people -- there are people 9 that have grandfathered-in pumps out of that section of river, 10 but that really doesn't affect the river level any, because 11 the -- if it was up, it would stay up. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, I mean if the -- 13 MR. TROLINGER: Expose the pipes. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- the river level itself 15 affects the water usage, people getting a drink of water. I'm 16 on your side here. I'm trying to be -- 17 MR. MATTHEWS: Right. Well, there were some people 18 that had shallow wells. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. Shallow wells, okay. 20 MR. MATTHEWS: And those shallow wells actually went 21 dry when this guy was knocking down all the rocks. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what I was looking 23 for. 24 MR. MATTHEWS: And they burned up a couple of pumps 25 in their shallow wells because of that. So, this was 10 years 7-31-06 bwk 74 1 ago. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is the request to -- for the 3 County to fund it, or to allow it to be done? 4 MR. MATTHEWS: Well, both a little bit. I'd like 5 the county road people to do it. I mean, because they're the 6 ones that caused the problem in the first place. And I 7 understand -- my understanding is they've had a -- they're 8 willing to do it, I think. They've gone to the -- 9 MR. ODOM: You're not -- you haven't talked to me. 10 MR. MATTHEWS: Well, they haven't got the money to 11 do it. But -- well, my understanding was you had talked to a 12 contractor about what it would cost to do it or something. 13 MR. ODOM: I haven't. 14 MR. MATTHEWS: I'm -- I had some -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It was the guy before him. 16 MR. MATTHEWS: Okay. 17 MR. ODOM: Yeah, before me. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But if -- I mean, I don't see -- 19 I don't see us having Road and Bridge do it, or paying to do 20 it, because I think it's kind of specific, but I don't have a 21 problem of allowing y'all to do it. I guess it is a county 22 road; you'd have to get our permission, but if you get proper 23 permits, I wouldn't have a problem allowing you to do it. 24 Doesn't sound like much money. If 25 people took the time to 25 sign the letter, each of you give $100, you ought to be able 7-31-06 bwk 75 1 to fix it permanently, it would seem to me. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What is the figure -- the 3 dollar figure? 4 MR. MATTHEWS: Well, the one I heard was $25,000 to 5 do it, which sounded awful high to me, because I can buy some 6 Sackrete and go do it. Y'all give me all the permits, I'll go 7 down there and fix it myself. But right now, if I go down 8 there and start fixing it, somebody might shoot me. So -- 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or come along and tear it 10 down. 11 MR. MATTHEWS: Right. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Get those -- just get the bags 13 of riprap, stack them in there. It would work. 14 MR. MATTHEWS: Well, that's what I was -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, anyway, you know -- 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah, we'll talk about it 17 some more. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Okay. Thank you, Mr. 19 Matthews. 20 MR. MATTHEWS: Okay. Thank you for your time. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: John Trolinger. 23 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir? 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Are you the John Trolinger 25 that lives at 126 Pleasure Hill Road? 7-31-06 bwk 76 1 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. 2 MR. MATTHEWS: Yeah, that's the signature on there. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mr. Matthews gets to buy 4 lunch. 5 MR. MATTHEWS: Uh-oh. 6 MR. TROLINGER: Correction. My father actually is 7 the property owner. He's the signature on that. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Oh. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Which were really some of the 10 original Pleasure Hill owners. 11 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Long time ago. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are we starting or are we 14 eating? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I was hoping that -- that 16 Leonard would say everything's cool. Heck. 17 MR. ODOM: Well, I don't see a whole lot. There's 18 some questions, if you want to go through. That's the reason 19 I -- on 600, I'm open for any questions, but I have three 20 things that the Judge has marked. Item 310 was Office 21 Supplies. He's cutting me $500. I can tell you, as of 22 today -- I had Truby pay all the bills Friday, and the 23 printout I got today, 7/31, I'm at $561.31, so if I'm cut $500 24 on that, I can tell you that I'm going to be short come 25 August-September for office supplies. And that's -- that has 7-31-06 bwk 77 1 to do with printing the -- our Subdivision Rules, that we 2 still have to do that this year. But that's ongoing. And 3 just floodplain, the ink that's involved in it. We've never 4 increased our budget; we kept it the same when we took 5 floodplain, so we think we're all right. We would like to 6 leave that $500 in there. After listening to the Sheriff, I 7 don't -- you know, mine's minuscule compared to that. I don't 8 know if there's any money left, to be honest. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There's not. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There's not. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sheriff got it all. 12 MR. ODOM: But I'd like to go back and just leave it 13 at 1,500. The other item is telephone, 420. Judge has cut me 14 500. I really don't find -- we changed a little bit, but 15 maybe with this phone system, maybe we can have that $500 16 savings. I just don't know. It would probably put me into 17 September, and then we'd, I guess, worry about the bill at the 18 last right there, go into the pot. Now, he's added me 500 19 into utilities, 440, so minus one there. So, if it gets down 20 to that point, maybe I would have a little excess there, so I 21 don't have a problem with that. I just can't tell you if the 22 telephone's enough. It shows to be about 5,200, give or take 23 this year. But I would like to have that office supplies back 24 up to 1,500. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What about the 3,000 for 7-31-06 bwk 78 1 capital outlay? 2 MR. ODOM: 3,000, capital outlay? All right. That 3 is a laptop, the software, printer-scanner, and a new desk, a 4 workstation. And the reason is 'cause we'd like to add one 5 person in the 611 budget. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, here it comes. We get 7 the computer, then we get the body. 8 MR. ODOM: No, the computer -- well, that's true, 9 but the computer is out of my office -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a novel approach, 11 Leonard. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You said 611? 13 MR. ODOM: 611. I have 640 -- I know that the 14 Treasurer gave me something like 650, but that was to add a 15 17-1 to my crew salary. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What's this person going to 17 do? 18 MR. ODOM: I believe what I'm going to do is 19 probably take this one individual back into the office. I 20 need some help. Y'all cut one last year, plus cut my capital 21 outlays, and I really -- I'm stretched pretty hard. It sort 22 of depends what y'all do, but I really -- we -- I've discussed 23 this a little bit, but I really need, I think, that help, and 24 train somebody for the next year to two years. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Leonard, I know you've talked 7-31-06 bwk 79 1 to -- Bill and I have talked to you a little bit about 2 airport. I don't know -- we haven't got to it, but we do 3 expect you to bid on some of the work out there that's going 4 out for bid. And if the City bids what they were charging 5 last year and you bid what we pay, we'll win that bid. If we 6 do that, can we -- well, I kind of look at that additional 7 work going into this slot. Will that work, in your mind? Can 8 you make it work if we give you one more slot -- one more 9 person? I know the airport job, you know, is not a -- 10 obviously, a full-time job, but there's a lot of -- there's 11 some -- 12 MR. ODOM: I don't -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- there's some daily work that 14 needs to be done out there, whether you do it or somebody else 15 does it, and which is maybe an hour a day. And then the rest 16 of the time, some of the bigger projects, you have to use -- 17 some of the other crews will have to assist. But could this 18 person work into that capacity, do you think? 19 MR. ODOM: Well, you know, I originally said two, 20 one and one. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's negotiable. 22 MR. ODOM: That's true. I'm always the low -- I'm 23 on the bottom end of everything. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You do such a good job. 25 MR. ODOM: I -- you know, I'll be honest, I asked 7-31-06 bwk 80 1 Dieter. Dieter and I went out there, took a look at it the 2 other day. And I -- I certainly want to go back with the 3 gentleman I met in Bill Williams' office to go over some 4 things, to verify some points. I'm thinking that Dieter and I 5 have a few people. They roll -- like Michael Jackson, and 6 I've got another man with him. We've cut so much brush now, 7 probably two crews. Dieter sort of works -- I was going to 8 put another person in there to mow. We figured we had three 9 and a half to five days. Sort of depends what they expect out 10 of everything. But when we looked at it the other day, we 11 said we could do probably three people. Herbiciding, 12 weedeating, two mowing would get that thing done on a mowing 13 type basis. And I might be able to make that work if I could 14 have that, but I really -- I'm going to have to put somebody 15 in the office, I'm telling you. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If we took Parks and Maintenance 17 and put that under this same group to give you two people, and 18 add Parks Maintenance in, which is very similar to airport 19 maintenance -- 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Can I tag along on that 21 line of thinking? Make it a little more complicated. We ask 22 Len every year to do a little bit more, and he always agrees 23 he'll do that. Would there be any synergy, any advantage to 24 putting buildings and courthouse maintenance and Ag Barn 25 under -- 7-31-06 bwk 81 1 MR. ODOM: Under us? 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: All that kind of stuff 3 under you? I see your people of being in the line of work of 4 maintaining and fixing things. 5 MR. ODOM: Right. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's what -- that's what 7 basically -- 8 MR. ODOM: Can it be done? The answer is yes. Do I 9 wish to do it? I don't know. But I could -- you know, it can 10 be done. It's more logical to probably do it that way. I 11 have to have some people. You're saying the courthouse here, 12 as well as the Ag Barn over there? 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Maintenance, janitorial. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And the juvenile detention 15 facility and the jail. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Scheduling. 17 MR. ODOM: I don't know what all they do. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Union Church. 19 MR. ODOM: How many people are we talking about? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That department has -- 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Has six. 22 MR. ODOM: I'm just not familiar with it. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Six. 24 MR. ODOM: Six. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There would have to be a -- a 7-31-06 bwk 82 1 lead person to be hired. 2 MR. ODOM: Right. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, it's more the management 4 aspects of it, probably. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You know, that's kind of -- 6 Commissioner, I kind of like that tack in a way. I think this 7 is looking for the synergy. I really think that the synergy 8 can come about as John is talking about. We can move the 9 Parks Maintenance, which is nothing more than mowing, 10 basically -- 11 MR. ODOM: That's what it -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- into this and incorporate 13 it into the mowing functions that Len has, and then add the 14 airport into that mix. Then we got people there who are -- 15 who are dedicated for that purpose. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One employee dedicated for that 17 right now, and budget -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, I see we gain there. 19 And then, coupled with that, I think we have to grapple with 20 the management function for buildings and facilities and see 21 what a manager can pull together for us on that. But I see 22 taking the parks out of there. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think parks is a -- parks is a 24 definite thing to get over there. I'm not so sure how the 25 rest of it works. I think you kind of need to look -- 7-31-06 bwk 83 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let's keep it on the table. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it's a -- 3 MR. ODOM: I would like to think about it a little 4 bit before I commit on -- I mean, you know, to try to make -- 5 to help to you get something going, I don't have a problem 6 there. But how much -- you know, you can only split Len so 7 far. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I want to talk to you about 9 Animal Control and Environmental Health. Oh, that's next 10 year. (Laughter.) 11 MR. ODOM: That's next year. Well, you know, I 12 would like to sit down and to -- and listen to your thoughts 13 and where you're going to try to make it work. And, -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 15 MR. ODOM: -- you know, we'll make it. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: You came on board here when? 17 MR. ODOM: Fifteen years ago. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: And how many employees were there in 19 the Road and Bridge Department at that time, total? 20 MR. ODOM: 34, 36 maybe. 21 MS. HARDIN: When we went to the unit system, there 22 was 37, but I don't know how many there were when you came. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: How many do you have now? 24 MR. ODOM: 24 of us. We have stretched -- my people 25 are stretched. I had it down -- when I lost that one position 7-31-06 bwk 84 1 last year, I had it down where I really wanted it. Whether 2 that position needed to -- you know, an individual, but the 3 slot, and I just -- it's pushing me on slots. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think there's -- I see an 5 increase overall of two, possibly three people in your 6 department when you add parks in, add airport in, some of 7 these -- probably two, 'cause I don't -- parks, I mean, I -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I thought the parks is going 9 to take care of the airport. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, they would. But you have 11 -- I think you have parks -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Another person. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That person, you're increasing 14 that slot. Then there's a slot that they want here, and 15 between those two slots, you get that additional work. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 17 MR. ODOM: What about the Ag Barn? What do we have 18 to do there? I mean, I don't think this is appropriate at 19 lunchtime to go into too far -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is a long-term 21 conversation. 22 MR. ODOM: Long-term type thing. But, you know, 23 Dieter's background is ag. I always thought that. I mean, 24 the old boy just -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's maintenance. 7-31-06 bwk 85 1 MR. ODOM: You know. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Maintenance. Set-up, 3 take-down, all that kind of stuff. 4 MR. ODOM: Yeah. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think you have to know where 6 we're going. Where we're going is, we don't know. We're 7 trying to figure out how we -- we have a lot of departments 8 that, really, we can't afford to hire a manager of. We don't 9 -- 'cause they're not big enough departments; Environmental 10 Health, Animal Control, and you have Maintenance. And it's -- 11 you know, maybe you can combine those, and just how you try 12 and work it all. You have subdivisions which you do, which is 13 kind of -- kind of really a different thing. You have 14 floodplain, which is a different thing. How you reorganize 15 that, all those in with -- 16 MR. ODOM: Got some thoughts. Environmental Health, 17 I've got thoughts. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Environmental Health, 19 Commissioner, I -- animals and environmental health, I think 20 you can combine real easily. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's code enforcement, 22 basically. 23 MR. ODOM: Mm-hmm. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And floodplain can go with that, 7-31-06 bwk 86 1 really, as well. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: To a certain extent, 3 subdivision, code enforcement. 4 MR. ODOM: To go out like we're doing now where 5 we're enforcing that, it creates a whole lot more on us. But 6 code enforcement's there too with septic and all. It sort of 7 all rolls together, and floodplain; so many times, that's 8 involved in -- in Miguel's thing that we get. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, I mean, you could -- you 10 know, you just have to -- we're still chucking it around and 11 looking at how you -- how best to organize the structure of 12 the departments. And this is a -- 13 MR. ODOM: Right. If it was too many people, I 14 wouldn't -- I mean, I would do what I've done before. I'd 15 come to the Court after we figured something out. I'd rather 16 have more to see where we're at than -- you know, I'm not 17 talking about excessive; I've never been excessive. But 18 instead of being to the point that we can't efficiently do the 19 job, that road crews would go down, that's where we're at. 20 But -- 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You do a good job on roads. 22 Our roads are -- 23 MR. ODOM: I think we're comparable with anyone. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: If you want to see a bad 25 road, drive up High Point Drive or over here on Washington 7-31-06 bwk 87 1 Street. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And that's one of the 3 reasons why we think that we can successfully bid on that 4 airport work and know that it'll be done correctly and less 5 expensively. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I said High Point; I mean 7 Hilltop. 8 MR. ODOM: Hilltop. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: City street. 10 MR. ODOM: I used to live up there; I know what 11 you're talking about. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's a bad road. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's see if we can get the rest of 14 yours knocked out. 15 MR. ODOM: All right, sir. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: What do we need to look at on your 17 Road and Bridge? 18 MR. ODOM: Oh, also on that lease copier, you had 19 1,800, and we had 1,548, so that went up. And I -- I asked 20 Truby, and we felt like you could leave that at 1,548, but 21 that's only $252 or something like that difference, so I don't 22 know. That's miniscule. The other one, 611, was under 220, 23 was medical -- Employee Medical. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Yep. 25 MR. ODOM: And the Judge cut me -- last year he was 7-31-06 bwk 88 1 going to cut; I asked him to leave it because of the way we 2 did things. But you could reduce that, leave me 2,400. The 3 costs have come down each year, and we don't have the turnover 4 that I've had. But I would be willing to go with 24 instead 5 of 32, and that might be closer to -- to do this. We normally 6 do not renew it until September. That's the reason that 7 money's sort of sitting there. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, if you're going to add one more 9 employee, that comes into the mix, too. 10 MR. ODOM: Very well could. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Well, what, one of them's 12 already on board? 13 MR. ODOM: And also, under Fuel Oil, 331, I had 14 asked for 107. That's really a guess on my part. I went from 15 102 to 107, and I figured 4 percent. But I listened to 16 different people, and -- and my son told me that those boys 17 down there in Pasadena were talking about $4 a gallon. That 18 was in January of this year, and saying possibly five. Maybe 19 that 123,8 may be necessary. I figured I'd run out -- and 20 that's about two tank loads on a -- two fillings, so -- above 21 where I'm at. That's probably about right. I was hoping to 22 make it to September, but I don't think I'll make it this year 23 to the middle of September. I might. So, that 123,8 is 24 probably right. Fuel's going to go up until the -- the first 25 of the year anyway, what I'm getting. Also -- let's see. You 7-31-06 bwk 89 1 dropped flood damage repairs. He reduced that 9,075. I 2 really don't have a problem. 9,000 -- $1,500 is a drop in the 3 bucket; if we have a flood, major damage, it won't make any 4 difference anyway. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Don't we put flood -- isn't 6 there a special -- 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Used to be. 8 MR. ODOM: Used to be. Under GASB, it's changed a 9 whole lot. Supposed to go all under one. We used to have it 10 separate. Let's see. I think right down to -- I had a 11 question mark here on the sheet I had on 569, Operating 12 Equipment. It's 2,000. To answer the question there, that's 13 sort of small tools, is the way the Auditor had it, and 14 different small supplies. So if we leave it at 2,000, I think 15 we'll be sufficient. That's also -- and 611 has to do with 16 chainsaws, things like that, that we have to replace. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: On your capital outlay, those are 18 fixed costs that I had the question mark by? 19 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Those are payments that you've got 21 for existing equipment? 22 MR. ODOM: Right. Yes, sir. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Does that include any new equipment? 24 MR. ODOM: Yes, it does. Under 570, I -- I don't 25 know if this is right or not, but when we had talked to Mindy 7-31-06 bwk 90 1 about it, Tommy -- we put in the zipper payment. We were told 2 that was a capital outlay. So, out of that 136,972 is -- 3 28,972 is essentially the zipper payment, the first payment on 4 that. It comes due. Then there's an 8-cubic-yard dump truck, 5 a half-ton extended cab four-wheel drive and a one-ton truck 6 that I was trying to replace. So, my truck is -- and one of 7 them is my truck. I've got 216. I figured I'd have 220 or 8 better on it, and probably just broke in, but that's pushing 9 the envelope. I like to be able to get where I need to get, 10 and -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: So, with the exception of 29,000, all 12 of that is requested new stuff? 13 MR. ODOM: Requested one 8-cubic-yard dump truck, 14 one half-ton extended cab four-wheel drive, and a one-ton 15 truck for the supervisor. I've got a V-10, Dodge, and gas 16 mileage is worse than a Hummer, so I want to put that up and 17 get something a little bit better as far as fuel economy, plus 18 it's already got 100-something on it. We felt like that was 19 more prudent to put that in reserves over there, and somebody 20 can use that one-ton Dodge, but it -- when you look at it, you 21 can see dollar signs going through the tailpipe. So -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I thought you weren't asking for 23 anything. 24 MR. ODOM: Well, that's not a whole lot. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not much. 7-31-06 bwk 91 1 MR. ODOM: That's not bad. If you really look at my 2 capital outlays, it's no worse than it was last year. Just 3 the payment for that zipper. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 5 MR. ODOM: I think that -- I'm open to any other 6 questions, but I think that -- I do have Town Creek for 7 25,000. I'll explain that. That's for engineering to look at 8 that other crossing over there. But by the time -- and I'm -- 9 hopefully that'll cover it, but I don't know. It'll probably 10 go up. I do have some money on Upper Turtle Creek, 'cause I 11 want to be working on that and in that area next year, some 12 seals over there. Also, Elm Pass, we're trying to go for the 13 last mile, mile and a quarter; we'll go to the county line and 14 widen that out. Well, I say widen. Line-of-sight. Put a 15 seal on it, and that will get Elm Pass for the first time 16 since Elm Pass was built, I guess. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Leonard, I don't think we need 18 to do it this year, but just keep it in the back of your mind 19 next year; depending on how development goes, we may have to 20 look at Lane Valley upgrades down the road. 21 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: In certain areas. I mean, I 23 think it's premature now, but start looking at right-of-ways 24 and where -- what you would do with that road if you do need 25 to upgrade it. 7-31-06 bwk 92 1 MR. ODOM: If I need to upgrade it. Depends where 2 they come out over there, too; it may change that alignment. 3 But -- I thought about that; that's probably something we need 4 to do as far as right-of-way. That might be something that's 5 coming up that we might consider. I don't see it right now, 6 but within the next year or two, Thompson Drive Extension on 7 over to Bear Creek is something that I think is in the cards. 8 And then we need to look at right-of-way, or either to 9 delineate right-of-way on this raw land. Whether we buy it 10 now or not, legally, I don't know. Rex is not here, but I 11 think we can do it where we designate this corridor off this 12 property, and then if it's developed or sold, maybe we look at 13 widening that to -- Freedom Trail is what I'm thinking, Bear 14 Creek. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's a good idea, 'cause 16 -- and any areas that you think that in the next 10 years, 17 we're going to be needing a county road, we get it on a map; 18 at least when a plat comes through, we'd have some -- 19 MR. ODOM: We have some legitimacy. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We say, "Okay, we need to allow 21 for this road," which is already planned and been approved, or 22 the concept approved. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Would right-of-way for an 24 extension of Thompson, would that be our responsibility or the 25 State's responsibility? 7-31-06 bwk 93 1 MR. ODOM: It would be our responsibility. However, 2 it's inferred that it might not cost us anything. That's 3 inferred to us at that point. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I see. Okay. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: If we generally lay it out now as a 6 future course, when a developer comes in to plat property 7 that's going to be in that area, we can require him to handle 8 it. 9 MR. ODOM: Mm-hmm. Instead of a 30-foot 10 right-of-way that we have on Lane Valley or 50-foot or 40-foot 11 on Bear Creek -- I'm not quite sure; probably 40 foot. We'll 12 widen this thing out, and -- and for that expansion. I mean, 13 that High Water Bridge will do wonders. That development off 14 Falls Ranch is -- is going to, over time, produce more traffic 15 back there. 30 foot's just not enough. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, parts of it are okay, but 17 part of it, it's going to be a long-range plan. 18 MR. ODOM: Yeah. I think I'm through, unless y'all 19 have questions. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I got a general question. 21 I think I understand, but I want to check. You've got five 22 crews that do Road and Bridge work? 23 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And each one of those has a 25 crew chief? 7-31-06 bwk 94 1 MR. ODOM: That's right. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Does that -- how is the 3 schedule made? Does the crew chief do that kind of planning, 4 or is that done in the office? 5 MR. ODOM: Well, I lay out the master plan, sort of 6 like the old colonels used to do with us lieutenants. They 7 give you a master plan, and then when you get down to that 8 platoon level or company level, then you do your own planning. 9 So, what I do is give them the overall plan that I wish to do, 10 and then they plan out on a calendar how we're going to start 11 to hit this, and then I look at it and say all right. Well, 12 we're going to hit about this time; sealcoat will start this 13 time off these projects. So, I give them autonomy. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: A lot of flexibility. 15 MR. ODOM: I have flexibility to do it. If I don't 16 agree with it, then we'll sit down and talk about it, but I 17 need -- I like to listen to them, 'cause they see -- my 18 blinders see it one way, and then sometimes they see a broader 19 picture of their area. And I'm -- I've got a pretty full -- 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Are those exempt jobs? 21 MR. ODOM: No, sir, they're not, but they do have 22 autonomy. And we go from week to week, believe me. Every 23 Monday morning -- this morning -- we meet and go over the 24 records and say where you're going, what sealcoat. Everybody 25 knows; the office knows, so if there's calls, they have a 7-31-06 bwk 95 1 better answer. Or if y'all call, "Where are we going?" So we 2 try to -- we try to be flexible on a week-by-week basis, but 3 that's planned out in the wintertime. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Besides those five crew 5 chiefs, do you have any other supervisors? 6 MR. ODOM: I have one; that's Dieter. He is my haul 7 truck guy. He does the bushwhack with that brush cutter. He 8 has a little skid loader. I have -- and, basically, he takes 9 care of my hauling, heavy equipment, road base, does the 10 mowing. And I have two other people that are under him, less 11 than him, that do potholes or they'll go out and do a lot of 12 brush cutting. Now, we're getting a whole lot of -- I'm being 13 facetious. We're not Alamo Heights yet, but people act like 14 we're Alamo Heights, and when they say to cut a road, we're 15 talking about miles of roads. And so I find that after all 16 these years, that we have got to patch a pothole, or a total 17 road needs to be rebuilt. You know, it's more urban-type 18 complaints in there. So, we're -- we've got that pretty well 19 booked. And I did have a person with -- with Dieter that 20 could haul things, do things, send them out on special 21 projects somewhere to handle it. Now I'm short that one 22 person. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: How is dead animal pickup 24 scheduled? 25 MR. ODOM: Well, unfortunately, they call us on 7-31-06 bwk 96 1 small ones. The big ones, we want to do. We end up picking 2 up squirrels and dogs and -- and that's where Michael and -- 3 and Ray will come in sometimes, but that's where we'll send 4 Michael that does the patching and all and the brush cutting 5 for us. So, they'll run out and grab a dog or a squirrel or 6 something like that and take it, or sometimes I will still go 7 out if the men are tied up. They'll call me, and I'll say, 8 "I'm by here; I'll run by." And hopefully I can pick up the 9 deer and throw it in the back of the truck. We take -- we 10 prefer to do the bigger animals, but we end up with the 11 smaller ones. But deer calls, we pick up and we'll take to 12 the landfill. Or a horse or a cow, either one. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that it for Mr. Odom? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For now. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. We appreciate it. 16 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. Thank you. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll take a break. Why don't we 18 come back at a quarter till 2:00. 19 (Recess taken from 12:31 p.m. to 1:50 p.m.) 20 - - - - - - - - - - 21 (Judge Tinley not present when workshop resumed.) 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Kathy, we're calling back 23 to order the meeting posted for 10:30. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where are you, Kevin? What 25 tab are you? 7-31-06 bwk 97 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He doesn't know. 2 (Discussion off the record.) 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Here it is. Tab 22. 4 MR. STANTON: Well, to start off, there's an $86,700 5 error -- not error, miscalculation in the sheets y'all are 6 looking at. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that plus or minus? 8 MR. STANTON: Minus. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, good. 10 MR. STANTON: So I wanted to pass out -- pass these 11 out to everyone. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You just did that to get 13 started off on the right foot. 14 MR. STANTON: I try. I try. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He's already on the right 16 foot, if you look at his bottom numbers there. By comparison 17 to where we are this year. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Did you leave one of those 19 for Tinley? 20 MR. STANTON: I'd be more than happy to answer any 21 questions. Y'all -- the question mark that Judge Tinley 22 marked on the original budget was for -- that I had presented 23 to him was for Professional Services with 76-572-486, and we 24 were able to reduce that line item by a significant amount due 25 to the fact that when we took over the facility, running it, 7-31-06 bwk 98 1 the short-term program, we lost our ability to do in-house 2 suicide assessments, and we were going to have to contract 3 those services out at $50 a shot for somebody to come in and 4 put a kid on suicide watch, take them off suicide watch, so it 5 was going to be really expensive. We were able to work 6 through the Texas Council of Offenders with Mental 7 Impairments, TCOMI program through M.H.M.R.; they're going to 8 provide those services for free to us, so we were able to 9 reduce that line item. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, from 20,560, it goes 11 down to 7,800? 12 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir. And that 7,800 covers the 13 nurse. We have to have a nurse on call, and that's for four 14 hours a week at $35 an hour. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's the other correction 16 on this -- this sheet you just gave us? 17 MR. STANTON: It was the salaries. It was -- on the 18 original budget that I worked up for Judge Tinley, I had 19 duplicated some salaries in the support staff and detention 20 officers. I was -- I went back and corrected those. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, the 316,959 goes down to 22 259,4? 23 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's pretty hard to analyze 7-31-06 bwk 99 1 this, because usually we're comparing something that's more or 2 less static. 3 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: This year to last year to 5 the previous year. Can you tell me a little bit about how 6 this budget compares with what we thought we were going to do 7 when we went back to this preadjudicated scheme? 8 MR. STANTON: I think it's right on target. I mean, 9 we're -- the staffing levels are at the minimum that they can 10 be to -- to run a secure facility. The general non-salary 11 line items, I had just as much trouble predicting the budget 12 as you guys, because I -- I'm not real sure what to base it 13 off of. But what I did was went back the last three months 14 and compared the monthly expenditures, and tried to take it 15 out from there and look at what our expenditures will be for 16 the whole year running only a preadjudicated facility. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are we taking in any 18 preadjudicated youth from other hill country counties? 19 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir. We've got -- at this point 20 right now, we've got 14 juveniles out at the facility, and 21 we've got 9 Kerr County kids and 5 out-of-county kids. I also 22 prepared this for the Court. It's a basic -- it's an estimate 23 of the revenue for the next -- this upcoming year. Has 24 everybody got one? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, we need two down here. 7-31-06 bwk 100 1 MR. STANTON: It also -- it also -- if you look at 2 it, I've listed all the counties that we contract with, and 3 the number of kids that they're projected to detain throughout 4 the year, and also the number of days that we use -- that they 5 use our facility. If you look at the bottom line under the 6 projected number of detention days per year, at the end of the 7 year, we'll have charged out 3,370 days of detention services. 8 As you can see, Kerr County's our largest contributor. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So that leaves about 800 10 days contributed to other counties? 11 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's the per diem rate 13 now? 14 MR. STANTON: $83 a day. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Huh? 16 MR. STANTON: $83 a day. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What should it be? 18 MR. STANTON: Well, at the -- look at the very 19 bottom of the page. I've broken it out to what the different 20 per diem rates and how much it would increase the revenues. 21 We've -- I've called around to four counties surrounding us, 22 and Bexar County charges $95 a day, Hays County charges $85 a 23 day, Round Rock charges $85 a day, and Atascosa charges $90 a 24 day. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 90? 7-31-06 bwk 101 1 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So 87 would put us kind of 3 in the middle of the mix. 4 MR. STANTON: 87 -- my guess would be even between 5 90 and 95. If we went somewhere between 90 and 95, I think we 6 would still be doing fine. I really do. I've had a couple of 7 chiefs call me wanting -- requesting information about what we 8 thought the per diem rate was going to be, if we were going to 9 increase it, and I told them that I was going to present to 10 the Commissioners Court to look at somewhere between $90 and 11 $95 a day, and they didn't bat an eye to it. So -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 93 may be a good number. 13 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, could you -- if you took 15 that -- I've got to do some math. You can't just take the 16 313,000, because that's -- that includes Kerr County, correct? 17 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir, that includes all the 18 counties down at the bottom. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Take the difference between 20 2,558 and 3,370 and then multiply it out. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. So, it's about 800 -- 22 900 times -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 24 MR. STANTON: If we -- if we had a full house, based 25 on the budget that we have right now, if we had a full house, 7-31-06 bwk 102 1 if we could average -- never -- it won't happen this year, but 2 if we averaged 24 kids a day out there, our costs per day 3 would be $91 a day. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And we're currently at 83? 5 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 85. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, if we went up $10, we're 8 looking at $80,000. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 93, about. 10 MR. STANTON: We're at 83 right now. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I guess I have to be 12 re-educated here. Are these -- these costs to these -- these 13 counties, including Kerr County, is some of that reimbursed by 14 the State? We got 212,000. Are Kerr County taxpayers paying 15 all that 212,000? 16 MR. STANTON: No, sir. No, sir. They can use -- 17 they get money from the State, community corrections and state 18 aid grants that they use to pay some of this money. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Based on this budget and 20 these revenues, what would be the total operating cost to Kerr 21 County? 800,000 less 280,000? 22 MR. STANTON: Well, it would be 800,000 -- it would 23 be -- yeah the 796 minus 279, or whatever the estimated 24 income, minus the 215,785 for reimbursement, the state salary 25 supplement, the expelled student, and the cash balance. 7-31-06 bwk 103 1 (Discussion off the record.) 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And a $10 increase, based on 3 the number of days for out-of-county kids, would yield about 4 75,000? 5 (Mr. Stanton nodded.) 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm thinking about the 7 elasticity of demand. Would $93 impair significantly the 8 number of days of out-of-county children? 9 MR. STANTON: I don't believe so, because I believe 10 that they're going to continue to use us no matter what, 11 'cause we're the closest thing they have to use. I know Kerr 12 County's always going to use it. And, you know, they've -- if 13 you look at the numbers, I mean, Kerr County's got an 14 increase. They're projecting by the end of the year, Kerr 15 County's going to lock up over 350 kids this year, just Kerr 16 County Juvenile Facility -- Probation Department, compared to 17 about 260 last year. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm ready to go to 93. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mm-hmm. Can't do it today. We 20 got to -- that's probably -- you'll put that on our agenda so 21 we can approve it and get contracts in and send that out so 22 that we're ready to go. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. Well, we can arrive 24 at a consensus on what the per diem ought to be. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it ought to be on the next 7-31-06 bwk 104 1 agenda so we can talk about this number with this same backup, 2 and then we can just go on, get one thing off the table. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The net operating cost, 5 400,000, and then what's it cost us for debt service? 275? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How do you get to the -- 7 MR. TOMLINSON: It's 474,000. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 474. How did you -- I was 9 sleeping when you got to the $400,000. I'm looking down here; 10 it's -- 796 is the budget, and we're bringing in from outside 11 Kerr County 75,000. How'd we get down to 400,000? Or is it 12 -- or were you netting out -- or were you also including in 13 the reimbursement most of the money from Kerr County as 14 reimbursed state money? 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's what I was -- 16 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. So, you take that full 19 73,300 -- okay. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How many increments left on 21 the debt service? 22 MR. TOMLINSON: Four. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's coming down pretty 24 quick. 25 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, this is the first year. 7-31-06 bwk 105 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: When's the jail over? 2 MR. TOMLINSON: In 2012. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 2000 what? 4 MR. TOMLINSON: 12. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Five more years. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, five years, we're debt free. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Something else will come 8 up. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rusty. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: $796,000 budget. 11 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What was it last year? 13 MR. STANTON: It's right there next to it; it's 14 1.6 -- 1.626 million. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 1.6 million, current budget. 16 So, it's down 50 percent -- more than 50 percent. 17 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: From what we currently 19 budgeted. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think we're doing the right 21 thing here. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tommy, when's that payment due? 23 Is it February? 24 MR. TOMLINSON: Probably. Most bonds are set to pay 25 in February and August, so I anticipate it's either February 7-31-06 bwk 106 1 or August. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Anything else from anybody? 4 Thanks, Kevin. Appreciate you going in the right direction. 5 MR. STANTON: Thank y'all. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What else? Environmental 7 Health. Miguel? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Environmental Health. 9 MR. ARREOLA: Good afternoon. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Afternoon. 21. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 21. 12 MR. ARREOLA: Ready? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're ready. 14 MR. ARREOLA: Okay. The first line, salary for me. 15 I been requesting an adjustment for the last two, three years, 16 and it's there again, so it's up to you. For the next line, 17 it's different from last year. I'm requesting a -- again, a 18 Solid Waste inspector. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait just a second. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Hold on, we're on the wrong 21 budget. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's on 21, but not the first 23 page. Third page. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Got it. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh. 7-31-06 bwk 107 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now we're making a little 2 sense. 3 MR. ARREOLA: Okay. That's Line Item 103. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Start again. 5 MR. ARREOLA: Line Item 103, we're requesting a 6 full-time Solid Waste inspector. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 103? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right now, we have one 9 part-time? 10 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, sir. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And you. 12 MR. ARREOLA: And me. And we've been doing what we 13 can. There's a lot more to do. You probably recall the 14 special program we had in Kerrville South. It was pretty good 15 results. I had to use some help from O.S.S.F. It worked all 16 right, but we got plenty of those to do. We really need a 17 full-time in Solid Waste. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Miguel, how much under your -- 19 the clerk item -- 20 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, sir? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How much of that is in the 22 office work versus field work? 23 MR. ARREOLA: Well, there's two full-time office 24 people and one inspector that does some office work also. 25 I'll say two and a half, and then half of it. 7-31-06 bwk 108 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You have two and a half 2 people in-house in addition to yourself? 3 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, sir. That's on O.S.S.F. The 4 clerk is only O.S.S.F. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So you have one inspector, then 6 two, basically. These are the office -- okay. 7 MR. ARREOLA: And the -- the salary we're requesting 8 for an inspector is about 20,000. That will give us a lot of 9 help and keep us going on Solid Waste. It's a growing 10 problem, and it needs a lot of attention there. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Talk about 486, Site 12 Cleanup, $5,000. 13 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, sir. That line item -- line item 14 is not the right number. We probably need to change the 15 number. That line item is for professional services. But 16 what we try to do is just make one up. That is based -- you 17 know, going to jump in a little bit to that. In 2005, we 18 approve -- or the County Court approved the nuisance abatement 19 program. That requires the County to clean up some 20 properties, and this is just part of what we approved. We're 21 supposed to go and clean them up when it's the last resort, 22 when there's nothing else we can do. We have to clean them up 23 at the County expense. Then after that, we put a lien on the 24 property and get those expenses back. But there's nowhere to 25 get the money -- there's not a line item to get those funds to 7-31-06 bwk 109 1 clean up those properties. That's what I'm trying to do, 2 trying to get one line item. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This guy right here can fix 4 it with a snap of the finger. 5 MR. ARREOLA: So, just create a number, but if you 6 guys want to approve the funds for that. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What you're saying is, you 8 want budget money, 5,000, to do the cleanup when the property 9 owner refuses to do it, but we're going to recover the cost of 10 that? 11 MR. ARREOLA: On a lien. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: On a lien. 13 MR. ARREOLA: Yes. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: A lien means you have to 15 wait till it's sold? 16 MR. ARREOLA: Correct. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or if he coughs up the money, 18 the lien goes away, huh? 19 MR. ARREOLA: Uh-huh. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Have you done one of those? 21 MR. ARREOLA: No, I can't, because of lack of funds. 22 There's -- there's two, three candidates in the county that we 23 can do, but we can't -- there's no funds to do them. So -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I wouldn't mind trying it once 25 to see how it goes. I don't know that -- you know, maybe 7-31-06 bwk 110 1 $1,000 or $1,500, something like that. $2,000, something like 2 that. 3 MR. ARREOLA: See how it goes. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To see if it's one of those -- 5 I'm a little bit unsure how it would all work. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: There is some sites that -- 7 MR. ARREOLA: Needs some attention. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- it would be good to 9 force a cleanup. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think if the word got out 11 on a couple that we do, that maybe it would give us a little 12 bit of leverage. 13 MR. ARREOLA: Sure it will, once they know we're 14 serious. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's put 1,500 in there. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 1,500? Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm just -- I probably 18 don't need to know this, Miguel, but how would we do that? 19 Hire somebody to do it? 20 MR. ARREOLA: We'd probably hire somebody. If we 21 have the resources in the county, we can pay to use those 22 resources. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Road and Bridge. 24 MR. ARREOLA: And pay landfill fees and all of that. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 7-31-06 bwk 111 1 MR. ARREOLA: Get an assessment and put a lien on 2 the property. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What about going on private 4 property? 5 MR. ARREOLA: We'll notify them. We'll do it by 6 statute, notify them that they're going to be cleaned up. We 7 can go in. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you think it would be wise 9 to use Road and Bridge in that case? 10 MR. ARREOLA: I don't know if Road and Bridge can go 11 into private property. That's another issue. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd be sure to check with the 13 legal beagles about that. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, you need to work 15 hand-in-hand with Rex on the first one. 16 MR. ARREOLA: Yeah. That's one of those things that 17 have to be done. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How's your current cleanup 19 program in Center Point going? 20 MR. ARREOLA: We sent the letters. It's not as big 21 as the one in Kerrville South, but we're scheduled to be there 22 in about a week and a half, two weeks. The other program 23 worked out real good. We just did the final part. Out of 300 24 properties, we issued about 150 notice of violation, and then 25 they all cleaned up. The only -- we only issued three 7-31-06 bwk 112 1 citations. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Out in the Loyal Valley 3 area? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Y'all know what he's talking 5 about? Kind of -- we drew a circle around a particular area 6 in Kerrville South, and he writes everybody a letter that 7 lives in that area saying, "We're going to be in your area 8 with police officers/constables on such-and-such date," and 9 they go through there and find out all these places, and they 10 write them -- 11 MR. ARREOLA: Notice of violation the first time. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- a notice of violation. 13 MR. ARREOLA: Give them time to clean up. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then they go back after 15 they give them an opportunity to clean up, and those that 16 didn't clean up, three citations out of 150. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I like that. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It works. 19 MR. ARREOLA: It did work real well. So, we -- 20 we're going into -- Center Point is already working. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Now, what streets did you do 22 over there? Bowlin, and what else did you -- 23 MR. ARREOLA: Those three, Bowlin, Harless, and -- 24 what's the other one? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Four streets? 7-31-06 bwk 113 1 MR. ARREOLA: Three. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Three. 3 MR. ARREOLA: Bowlin, Harless, and -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Another one in Center Point is 5 Skyline. 6 MR. ARREOLA: That's a major one. That's one of the 7 big ones. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That would be a good one to do. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Starting O.S.S.F. right out 10 there. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it just seems like it might 12 get some attention. 13 MR. ARREOLA: You got some also in Ingram Hills; 14 we're going to move into Ingram Hills. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's outside the city 16 limits. 17 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, sir. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Miguel, I want to get back 19 to this one. Do you perform any work for Kerrville or for 20 Ingram? 21 MR. ARREOLA: For Kerrville yes, sir, we do. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What do you do? 23 MR. ARREOLA: O.S.S.F. program. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: They have septic tanks 25 inside the city limits? 7-31-06 bwk 114 1 MR. ARREOLA: They do. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: How do they pay for that? 3 MR. ARREOLA: We keep -- get all the fees, 4 basically. We get -- keep the fees. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do they adopt our programs or do 6 they have their own rules? 7 MR. ARREOLA: No, it's ours. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Our rules. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Do the fees cover our 10 costs? 11 MR. ARREOLA: It does. It basically does. We come 12 out even. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Just take a big guess. 14 What percent of your total activity? 15 MR. ARREOLA: They're very small, probably 16 5 percent. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Ingram does their own? 18 MR. ARREOLA: Ingram does their own. They've been 19 talking to me about trying to get the program into ours, and 20 that's something we all need to discuss, 'cause that's -- it's 21 a different issue completely. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Do they propose to -- any 23 terms of the contract? 24 MR. ARREOLA: No. They want to give it to us. They 25 just want to say, "Here's the program." 7-31-06 bwk 115 1 MR. TOMLINSON: How nice of them. (Laughter.) 2 MR. ARREOLA: It's a -- it's different than 3 Kerrville, I can tell you that. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Miguel, you said only 5 percent 5 is in the city of Kerrville? With the new ETJ issue, has that 6 not expanded? 7 MR. ARREOLA: It didn't change. If it's outside the 8 city limits, it's ours anyway. It's in the county, so the ETJ 9 doesn't apply. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's right. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That makes sense. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: But you need to think of it 13 in terms of capacity. 14 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We've got a couple people 16 sitting down there waiting to serve Kerrville, so they ought 17 to pay a third of our total cost. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Same formula. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They could build their own 20 library. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Miguel, I want to go back to 22 Line 105. 23 MR. ARREOLA: 105. Yes, sir? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We've got an administrative 25 assistant. 7-31-06 bwk 116 1 MR. ARREOLA: Uh-huh. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We've got an O.S.S.F. 3 inspector and clerk. 4 MR. ARREOLA: Yes. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And then you're asking for 6 another outside inspector? 7 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, sir. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you top-heavy? 9 MR. ARREOLA: No. No, the 105 is all O.S.S.F. What 10 I'm asking for is on 103. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What does an administrative 12 assistant do versus what does a clerk do? 13 MR. ARREOLA: Clerks are basically the receptionist. 14 All the phone calls and all the first attention to the public, 15 helps with filing and some data entry -- minor data entry. 16 And the administrative assistant does all the data entry, all 17 the process fees, all the applications, all of that. It's a 18 little different. Any questions on that one? The fee -- the 19 salaries for the clerk and all the ones in the bottom there 20 are not -- I didn't calculate the 4.2 COLA on it, so they're 21 going to be a little higher than -- I just got new figures 22 today from the Treasurer's office. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How much revenue has your 24 department generated to-date? 25 MR. ARREOLA: It's going to be close to 70,000 a 7-31-06 bwk 117 1 year. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 70? 3 MR. ARREOLA: 70. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's going to be an 5 annualized number. 6 MR. ARREOLA: Normally, that's normal. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How does it compare to a 8 year ago? Up or down? 9 MR. ARREOLA: Pretty close. Pretty close. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: About the same? 11 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah, I think so. 12 MR. ARREOLA: 57. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What's Tish's title? 14 MR. ARREOLA: Inspector. O.S.S.F. Inspector. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Her salary's included under 16 clerk? 17 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, it's divided in the bottom. 18 (Discussion off the record.) 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, it costs us about 21 $178,000 to run that department over and above fees. 22 MR. ARREOLA: Taking down the fees, about 100,000. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. 24 MR. ARREOLA: Oh, if you get the new one? The new 25 figure? 7-31-06 bwk 118 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm taking your number, 2 247,835, and I'm subtracting 70,000 from it. 3 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, sir. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's assuming we give him -- 5 MR. ARREOLA: Another person. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That assumes he gets another 7 person. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right now, the department's 9 costing about 100,000. 10 MR. ARREOLA: 100,000. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Can we raise the fees? 12 Should we? 13 MR. ARREOLA: It's -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We just changed -- I'm not sure 15 how we -- we increase or decrease. We just changed the 16 subdivision portion. We didn't look at anything else. 17 MR. ARREOLA: No, the O.S.S.F. can be adjusted. 18 I've been checking other counties. We're about average, but 19 there's some other counties that charge more. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What about residential 21 permit cost? 22 MR. ARREOLA: 250, average. We can go up to 300, 23 depending on the system, but normally we have 250. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's -- I mean, it' nice to 25 have it pay for itself, but I think you can get too much -- 7-31-06 bwk 119 1 too -- 2 MR. ARREOLA: The other avenue we have, we have a 3 10-acre exemption rule; basically, when have you 10 acres, you 4 don't have to get a permit. We can get rid of that if the 5 Court decides. Then everything will have to be permitted, so 6 it will be more fees coming in. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: State -- the State's rule 8 of thumb is that if you got 10 acres or more, you're okay, so 9 I don't think -- 10 MR. ARREOLA: We're probably the only county in the 11 state left with that rule. Everybody else don't do it. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Really? 13 (Mr. Arreola nodded.) 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What -- and for that $250, 15 what do I get? I get your help in site inspection -- site 16 assessment and then inspection? 17 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, sir. The initial process, all 18 the -- how the process goes from A to Z. And we go and 19 inspect the property, and we do it normally two times. The 20 preliminary inspection for the soil, then the final 21 inspection, the construction. We review the plans, make sure 22 they're according to state law. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It probably is 24 instructional, comparing that to City of Kerrville's charge 25 for a building permit, $375, and they may have to come out 7-31-06 bwk 120 1 once or twice and look at your work in progress and look at 2 your final work. So, we're not too far under what might be 3 comparable. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, does the Solid Waste 5 generate any fees? Or just fines? 6 MR. ARREOLA: Fines. And we can do more if we have 7 more power to do them, but yeah, it's only fines. That's all 8 we do. And I'm not sure what percentage stays in the county, 9 'cause they go to the J.P.'s, so probably the State gets part 10 of it. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The J.P. gets the money, 12 huh? 13 (Mr. Arreola nodded.) 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 15 MR. ARREOLA: All right. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 17 MR. ARREOLA: The next one I have a question on is 18 in postage. I did ask for 1,500. The recommended is 1,250. 19 I think we still need to stay on the 1,500, or at least 1,400. 20 You're going to see in the next meeting, I'm going to request 21 a budget amendment to put in some money on postage. We're 22 doing a lot of mail-outs, so I'd like to keep at least 14, if 23 not 15, in there. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which one are you on now? 25 MR. ARREOLA: It's 309. 7-31-06 bwk 121 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 309. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: 1,400. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 4 MR. ARREOLA: The other one, uniforms, I put that 5 figure in counting that are going to get an extra person. If 6 we don't get that extra person, then yeah, it can be reduced, 7 but I'm thinking we can make it with 12. It's either 1,400 or 8 the -- the 2,000, depending on if we get an extra person or 9 not. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which line? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 316, Uniforms and Boots. I 13 saw that the other day. We buy you boots? 14 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, you did. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Cowboy boots? 16 MR. ARREOLA: These are not the ones you got me. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Alligator? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Ostrich boots. 19 MR. ARREOLA: I paid for this. I only use it for 20 court days; the other ones are dirty. On Line 331, there's 21 $5,000 there, and it was recommended to keep at 5,000. But 22 you're going to see in the bottom that I'm requesting a new 23 vehicle. If we can get the new vehicle, we can probably 24 reduce that 5,000 to probably 4,000 because of the savings in 25 gas the new vehicle will bring, and the maintenance. Right 7-31-06 bwk 122 1 now, we -- one of our jeeps is doing very bad. We're putting 2 money on it, and it's more scheduled to be put on, and I just 3 want to trade it in and get a newer vehicle. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the mileage on those two 5 vehicles? 6 MR. ARREOLA: There's 60,000 miles. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Each of them? 8 MR. ARREOLA: Uh-huh. The truck has about 70,000. 9 The jeep's -- truck's doing fine, Solid Waste truck. We can 10 get another two years good out of it. The older jeep that we 11 have is a '98 model with 60,000 miles, but it's running great. 12 It's in good shape. The newer one is a 2000 model; it's 13 giving us a lot of problems. It's in bad shape, so I'd like 14 to trade that one in and get a newer vehicle. We do need a 15 4-by-4 vehicle real bad. Sometimes we can't get into places 16 because of -- without a 4-by-4. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that what the $6,000 is? 18 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, sir, on capital outlay. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Huh? 20 MR. ARREOLA: That's what it is. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that a lease payment, or -- 22 MR. ARREOLA: That's a -- no, buy. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Buy? 24 MR. ARREOLA: Payments. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What are you looking at? 7-31-06 bwk 123 1 MR. ARREOLA: It's -- I got some information here. 2 It's a 2007 Ford. It's electrical and gas combination. It 3 gives excellent gas mileage, clean emissions. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You got one for the Judge? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He can have mine. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 7 MR. ARREOLA: Give you that one. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We need to put a big sign on 9 this, "Environmentally friendly vehicle." 10 MR. ARREOLA: We can do that. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Your Environmental Health 12 Department is environmentally friendly. 13 MR. ARREOLA: Well, I did some figures in there with 14 the cost of gas and maintenance that we're doing on the -- on 15 the actual part that we have right now, and we can save some 16 -- some dollars there. The real cost for us will be about 17 $4,800 a year to -- to run that vehicle. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's not a four-wheel drive 19 vehicle? 20 MR. ARREOLA: It is four-wheel drive. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It is? They make four-wheel 22 drive? 23 MR. ARREOLA: Full-time four-wheel drive, electric. 24 It's a pretty good deal. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I've got a '91 Jeep with 7-31-06 bwk 124 1 22,000 miles on it. Maybe you'd like to make me an offer. 2 (Laughter.) I drive it to Ingram once a year and get a tank 3 of gas. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Have you looked at leasing as 5 opposed to purchasing? 6 MR. ARREOLA: I did, and the payment is higher. 7 It's only three years -- yeah, three-year lease, and the 8 payment is a little higher. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Were you doing this as a 10 four-year -- what kind of purchase? 11 MR. ARREOLA: It's five-year. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd rather we don't do five-year 13 vehicles. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We do lease-purchase now, 15 right? 16 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah, but not that term. They're 17 worn out before we get them paid off. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, right. 19 MR. ARREOLA: The way we drive them, I mean, we do 20 about 12,000 miles per year, so in five years, it will be 21 60,000-mile vehicles. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's peanuts compared to 23 the Sheriff. 24 MR. ARREOLA: Yeah, we don't drive that much. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tommy, would you recommend going 7-31-06 bwk 125 1 five years on a clean vehicle in the county fleet? 2 MR. TOMLINSON: I think for that price vehicle, I'd 3 just go three, just like all the rest of them. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that what we're set up 6 on, about three? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Three-year lease. 8 MR. ARREOLA: Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Those are relatively low 10 mileage compared to Road and Bridge vehicles. Those are 11 200,000. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: Paying lots of interest. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What? 14 MR. TOMLINSON: You're paying lots of interest on 15 five years. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On the -- on a lot of stuff 17 nowadays, you go three years and it's interest-free, low 18 terms? 19 MR. TOMLINSON: Sometimes they are, yes. 20 MR. ARREOLA: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Anyway, it would -- it might 22 work. How bad's your Jeep? 23 MR. ARREOLA: It's bad. I'm basically driving it 24 just when I have to. I need to do about a $1,000 job to get 25 it back into normal, so I'm waiting on that, and if we don't 7-31-06 bwk 126 1 have to, we just trade it in. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Wonder if there's any other use 3 in the county for a low-mileage Jeep that has problems. 4 MR. ARREOLA: Yeah, I really don't recommend that we 5 keep it here. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Predicated on how long a 8 lease -- 9 MR. ARREOLA: Excuse me? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- purchase? 11 MR. ARREOLA: It's five-year. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Five? 13 MR. ARREOLA: But he's recommending to go three, so 14 that's what I'm trying -- I'll try to do that. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Miguel, why can't you get by 16 with -- I'm not as much opposed about getting a new vehicle. 17 I think you start getting old ones. I don't have a problem on 18 that as much as, do you really need two? I mean, if you have 19 -- there are times when you and Tish and Solid Waste are all 20 out at one time, but if you don't have a -- we're not going to 21 fill that third person this year, do you really need three 22 vehicles? Then you can probably get by for a year with two? 23 MR. ARREOLA: We could get by. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You can trade both Jeeps in on 25 one new one. 7-31-06 bwk 127 1 MR. ARREOLA: We could do something like that. 2 It'll be two days where we'll be in trouble, the two days that 3 the Solid Waste inspector works. We'll be down to one 4 vehicle. And sometimes -- like today, we had eight 5 inspections, so, you know, there's no way to do it, just one 6 person. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It probably makes sense to have 8 three vehicles where you're going to get a trade-in. 9 MR. ARREOLA: Yeah. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 11 MR. ARREOLA: Okay. Next line is -- like I said, on 12 331, on gas, this will save us a lot of money on gas, about 13 $800, $900 a year on gas that we can reduce a little bit on 14 the gasoline item. Not a whole lot, 'cause I don't know where 15 that is going to go. But -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 17 MR. ARREOLA: The other one is on 438, Lab Testing. 18 I requested 1,000, and Judge recommended 500. 500 will get us 19 good with the O.S.S.F. side of it, but we do a lot of tests on 20 Solid Waste too, for hazardous waste, and they're expensive. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess the -- I'm guessing -- 22 the Judge isn't here, but he looked at the year-end expected 23 $140 for this year. 24 MR. ARREOLA: Yeah. Those numbers are through -- I 25 think through April. I don't know exactly how that goes, but 7-31-06 bwk 128 1 we're about to run out of money on that one. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So you want to keep it 3 1,000? 4 MR. ARREOLA: I would like to keep 1,000 in there. 5 And operating equipment, I need a couple of things in the 6 office. I need a chair that broke down. I need some small 7 filing cabinets. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Got that. 9 MR. ARREOLA: I need a shredder. I need -- 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have a bunch of furniture out 11 in the Juvenile Detention Facility. 12 MR. ARREOLA: Really? Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Call Kevin and ask him to 14 show you what's over there. 15 MR. ARREOLA: Okay. I'll check with him, then. 16 (Judge Tinley returned to the budget workshop.) 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, we reduced your 18 budget by a third. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Probably 50 percent more than I'll 20 need, anyway. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What was that line item, Miguel? 22 MR. ARREOLA: Which one? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Operating expense? 24 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, 569. Operating Equipment. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, we can reduce that less than 7-31-06 bwk 129 1 1,000, go down to 500? 2 MR. ARREOLA: 500 will be fine. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. What number are you on? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're on -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're redoing his whole budget. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: What number are you on, 21? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 21. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Tab 21. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. What do we got here? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What did you say your 11 gasoline, 331 number, would end up being? 12 MR. ARREOLA: If we get the new vehicle, 4,000 will 13 be fine. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 4,000? 15 MR. ARREOLA: Mm-hmm. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are those -- the vehicles 17 that you have now, are those the vehicles we brought over from 18 U.G.R.A.? 19 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, sir. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, on that site cleanup, 22 Line 486 -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- we gave him 1,500. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: 1,500, yeah. 7-31-06 bwk 130 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That was to let him try a 2 couple. That money, we get it back through a lien on 3 property, so we may get it back someday. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let him try it a little bit. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just let -- do a site cleanup 6 and see how that process works. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Y'all got through Juvenile 8 Detention? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. Here's a copy of his 12 budget set before you. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, he said he was going to rework 14 his. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, he did. He had it 16 revised. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: And -- yeah, there it is. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. All right. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the income sheet, I 20 think. Should be two pages. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's it, Miguel. 22 MR. ARREOLA: Anything else? Just one final comment 23 here. City of Ingram, if we decide to get their O.S.S.F. 24 program, we'll probably need to revise it a little bit. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sure. 7-31-06 bwk 131 1 MR. ARREOLA: 'Cause it'll bring up a lot of 2 expense. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. 4 MR. ARREOLA: Thank you. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, gentlemen. I appreciate 6 that. Okay, I'm back up to speed here, I think. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Then on juvenile, we 8 recommended he come back to regular court and talk to us about 9 raising the fees to $93 a day. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: If we can get it. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He says he thinks he can. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Most of it -- most of it you're going 13 to be getting from me. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yours comes from the State, part 15 of it. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Not -- not a whole lot. Some of it 17 does. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're talking about 19 out-of-county, basically. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We could charge them the same 22 rate, give the Judge a discount. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, that was -- that was the 24 methodology previously, that there was a discounted rate to 25 Kerr County and a higher rate charged to out-of-county in 7-31-06 bwk 132 1 the -- in the long-term. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are we finished with Miguel? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Did we agree to give him an 5 inspector? 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We haven't agreed to do 9 anything. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We haven't agreed to do 11 anything. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We agreed he could ask 13 again next year. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, before we get off 16 here, I need to make a little announcement. Someone came in 17 and told me a while ago that Constable Billeiter's daddy just 18 committed suicide a few minutes ago. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Oh, no. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: David? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Up at the lake? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 25 MR. ALFORD: Y'all know about Christine Martinez, 7-31-06 bwk 133 1 J.P. 4's secretary? She was in a major accident a while ago. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Who, Judge Ragsdale's clerk? 3 MR. ALFORD: Judge Ragsdale's clerk. On Junction 4 Highway. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: When was this? 6 MR. ALFORD: A while ago at lunch. They air-lifed 7 part of them to San Antone, and I believe she's here. 8 (Discussion off the record.) 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: If we did some reorganizing 10 and needed to appoint another manager, I keep thinking there's 11 somebody in County employment that has got some leadership 12 ability, and I keep looking around. One of them that comes to 13 mind that I think has got that is David Billeiter. Just 14 something to think about. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: For what? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Being a manager. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: If we reorganize and 18 consolidate some functions together. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He could be a constable and a 20 manager. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No, he wouldn't be a 22 constable. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think he likes being a 24 constable. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He's a cop, I'm telling you, 7-31-06 bwk 134 1 through and through. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. But somewhere in our 3 -- somewhere in our 300 people must be somebody with some 4 leadership ability. It's probably somebody in the Sheriff's 5 Office, or -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What other -- have we done 8 Collections? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: No, that's at the very tail end. We 10 can do it now, though. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Do it. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: We've got it all the way back to the 13 front now. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I hate to see him sitting in 15 here not working. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Not collecting. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 'Cause he's supposed to be 18 out packing his bags. 19 MR. ALFORD: I can't believe y'all are taking my 20 office. Man, that hurts my feelings. I want to redo my 21 budget. I want to fight, go back to the old days. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Six? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Number 6. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Six. 25 MR. ALFORD: Don't you forget it. 7-31-06 bwk 135 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Number 6. 2 MR. ALFORD: It's real simple. After the Judge got 3 through with me, he cut my budget a total of 32 percent. We 4 agreed. Thank you. We'll see y'all next year. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Have fun. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: That's essentially where we are. 7 MR. ALFORD: That's keeping my office, though. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't see it. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're keeping an office; you're 10 just moving. 11 MR. ALFORD: Yeah. I'd like to keep my same office. 12 I like my window. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're keeping an office. 14 MR. ALFORD: I like my window, guys. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That may be part of the 16 problem. 17 MR. ALFORD: I know it. Can't tell if it's raining 18 or pouring. I don't have to worry about either one of those 19 lately. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We'll call you and tell you 21 if it's raining. 22 MR. ALFORD: Next year sometime, too. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's down in the bowels of 24 this building somewhere. 25 MR. ALFORD: Compared to where we started -- 7-31-06 bwk 136 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Good. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Pretty simple. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Looks pretty good. 5 MR. ALFORD: Thank you, gentlemen. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Now we'll go to Extension. That's at 7 23, I believe. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm telling you, suicide is 9 one of the worst tragedies a family can experience. My family 10 hasn't experienced it, but I've been close to people who did. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: As I'm sure all of you recall, the 12 Family and Consumer Science Specialist, that position has been 13 filled, and I'm trying to think when that began. Did that 14 begin in July, or did it begin in August? She was 15 transitioning down here from Nebraska. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I thought it was -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I thought July. 18 MR. TOMLINSON: I haven't seen any salary on her 19 yet. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Must be August. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I thought it was August. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Bottom line is, it's been 24 filled. Major differences here have to do with some -- mainly 25 travel items, conferences, reimbursed travel, stock show 7-31-06 bwk 137 1 travel. All of those have gone up $1,000 apiece. A & M picks 2 up 50 percent of the salary; is that it? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Salaries, uh-huh, of the two agent 4 salaries. The -- the 4-H and the office manager, we pick up 5 the entirety of it. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's an asterisk; it says, 7 "$5,000 travel allotment included in salary." Is that in 8 addition to the specific stock show and reimbursed travel? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I've got to assume that it is, 10 because it says it's included in salary. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which one? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: That's what I don't know. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't see any asterisk 14 anywhere. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't either. 16 MR. TOMLINSON: I think that's for Extension Service 17 purposes, 'cause they -- they have to submit this to the 18 Extension Service, and somehow they -- the Extension Service 19 creates a budget for them based upon what we do, I'm thinking. 20 I mean, I know that -- that they -- I know that they have to 21 use an Extension Services form for -- for this budget, so that 22 always confused me too. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: I've been trying to get them to use 24 something that conforms with everything we've utilized in the 25 past, and same thing with J.P. 4, and I finally told J.P. 4 7-31-06 bwk 138 1 this year if I didn't see it in the manner I requested it, I 2 wasn't even going to consider it, so he finally sent it to me. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good for you. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: So -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got a question here. As 6 if this was the first time I've ever seen this. I don't know 7 why this is jumping off the page at me today. Roy Walston, 8 $16,371. That's our share? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's our half. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Our portion. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Our portion. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Our portion. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And A & M pays him the same 14 amount? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Something. 16 MR. TOMLINSON: We don't know what that is. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, it's probably about the 18 same amount, which puts him at 32. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: I think it's more than that. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And we have Laurinda at 21 $31,000? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm sure A & M pays more 23 than the 16. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I would hope so. You know, 25 you're talking about a leadership position, degreed position. 7-31-06 bwk 139 1 A lot of the lobby experience position. I guess, bottom line, 2 I'm a little bit floored at Laurinda's salary. Seems like an 3 awful large number to me. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm, I would agree with 5 you. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question. Only question I have 7 on that, really, is if that 5,000 is in each of their salaries 8 up there. Wouldn't be in Jamie's, certainly, but could be in 9 Laurinda's. Laurinda's -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Probably Laurinda's and 11 Roy's. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: No, Laurinda gets her reimbursement 13 from -- from this Reimburse Travel. That's where she gets her 14 travel money from. I'm not sure what happens, but I'm 15 thinking that the Extension Agents put that amount in as -- 16 the $5,000 as a part of their salary from us. They submit 17 that to Texas A & M; then they -- they base their salary upon 18 what allowances we give them, plus what we pay them in salary. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 20 MR. TOMLINSON: Is what I think happens, but I'm not 21 sure. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: I tend to think you're probably 23 right. That way they can -- they can get that $5,000 travel 24 allotment, plus A & M will make that up on the other end on 25 their salary. 7-31-06 bwk 140 1 MR. TOMLINSON: Right. And I wouldn't be surprised 2 if -- if our part of their salary may be only 25 percent of 3 their salary, maybe even less than that. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the one we probably, 5 obviously, need to check. Right, Commissioner? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. What kind of 7 conferences do they go to? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, they have all sorts of 9 conferences. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That A & M pays for and puts 11 on? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Some of them, they do, I'm sure. I 13 don't know about the travel aspects of it, but I think 14 probably the program costs and the materials are very little, 15 if no cost involved. Traveling -- travel and lodging and 16 meals is what eats you up on those things. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I wonder if it's -- while 18 y'all are just sitting around thinking, I just thought I'd 19 wonder awhile. Are they for continuing education, do you 20 think? Required by A & M, and then A & M puts on the school 21 and we pay for it? I'm having a hard time following that -- 22 that thinking. I'm sure I'm wrong. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: I suspect that we don't -- we 24 probably don't pay any program costs, such as registration 25 fees and program fees. 7-31-06 bwk 141 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, I think that's all 2 travel. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: I think probably most of that is -- 4 is travel and lodging and meals and so forth. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It should be about $830 a 6 person. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Doesn't take long to chew that up. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I'm kind of -- I agree, 9 I think Buster's looking -- it looks like a lot of travel 10 categories. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I wouldn't mind reducing the 13 Conference line item some. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, you know, if they're -- 15 if it's, you know, like the things that we're required by law 16 to do to get our CEU's -- 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Right. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If it's that kind of thing 19 that is sponsored by A & M, I don't -- I don't understand why 20 A & M is not paying for the whole thing. But I see my 21 friend's name -- Kyle Smith's name on here, and we're not 22 going to bother him 'cause he's fixing to take me to a 23 football game. I'll leave him alone. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: County-sponsored, our last 25 thing. Tab 25. 7-31-06 bwk 142 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Yep, that's where we are. Okay, Jon, 2 help me on this Trapper contract. We got that in the ditch 3 last time, so tell me what it is. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have -- the rate was 5 increased last year. Plus we did an interlocal with Kendall 6 County, which is working out very well, I might add. I mean, 7 there -- he's probably doing what Kendall County feared, that 8 he's working more in Kerr County than in Kendall County. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, the Kendall County 10 Trapper is coming up into Kerr County? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He goes to Elm Pass, along 12 Hasenwinkel -- up towards Hasenwinkel. We gave him a 13 boundary; limit him to, say, eastern Kerr County or a road, 14 and covering the east side of that -- those roads, he -- he's 15 trapping and doing a lot of work, catching lots of -- 16 actually, he caught a -- what was it? Somewhere on Cypress 17 Creek Road, they were having a buzzard problem, and he trapped 18 a couple hundred buzzards. They were -- they were eating 19 holes through roofs or something. I forgot, some kind of 20 buzzard roost. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That keeps us from having 22 to put on another truck to pick up deer. Don't mess with 23 those buzzards. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sam Junkin had that same 25 problem out there in west Kerr. Those buzzards would hang out 7-31-06 bwk 143 1 on power lines and come over and land on his roof and ate up 2 his damn roof. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He got rid of them. Gosh, I 4 can't remember what that interlocal -- it was 5,000. Was it 5 30,000 or more than that? There was a rate increase. Let me 6 contact them. I'll call them over there and see what that -- 7 what their new salary is for one trapper. I know there was an 8 increase mid-year. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But that's the interlocal 10 agreement with them. And our local -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Our one full-time trapper. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Our one guy. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So we can get a trapper and a 14 court. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: But there was an increase on our 16 regular guy, too. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: We hadn't had an increase in -- I 19 don't know how many years, but it had been several. But -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll call them. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, related topic. You're 23 going to love this. One time, when we used to sit down at 24 this table down here, and I sat on the other end down there, 25 we were talking about some of the ranchers were trying to get 7-31-06 bwk 144 1 the Court to raise the price on coyote ears, and we wouldn't 2 do it for some stupid reason. We wouldn't do it, and one day 3 Bob Ramsey -- place was just packed with ranchers. And the 4 back door opens and Bob Ramsey walks in with a full-blown dead 5 coyote, and throws it at us. And it hits the floor about 6 halfway through, it skids right up under our table, blood 7 splattering everywhere. Damndest thing I ever saw. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Did you raise the rate? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, yeah. That's how you do 10 it back then. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That was the -- used to be the 12 biggest meetings you'd have, was dealing with coyote ears and 13 hunting rules, those two. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's right. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Those are some big -- this thing 16 was packed for those two issues. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You'd have hundreds of 18 people. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you remember how much you 20 raised the bounty to? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think it went up to 7 bucks 22 or something like that. Not much more than that now. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I had a call earlier this 24 year from Polly Plant, who lives way out there on Fall Creek 25 Road. She wanted to know what the bounty was on coyote ears, 7-31-06 bwk 145 1 so I asked around, and nobody knew. I even asked Tommy what 2 the bounty was. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: About 10 bucks or something. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's 20. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Golly, we haven't heard 6 about that in so many years, I have no idea what the bounty 7 was. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Take them to the clerk. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Do you? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, you bring them to the 11 courthouse; they write you a check. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You can tell the difference 13 between coyotes and other canines? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not me. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: County Clerk can. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, I'll bet. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: For a disbursement, it'd have to be a 19 Treasurer function, wouldn't it? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I believe they had to go through 21 the clerk. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I somehow think the good 23 old days were better. I'd rather deal with that than EMS. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I've got a picture of 25 it. The newspaper was here that day and got a picture of the 7-31-06 bwk 146 1 coyote laying on the floor, blood all over everything. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. As a matter of information, 3 the -- of course, we're -- we don't have a task force any 4 more, so that comes out. That's operated out of our Sheriff's 5 Department now; that's 25 out. And what's it costing us, 6 three times that? No, more than that. Economic development, 7 that goes to Kerr Economic Development Foundation, and what I 8 propose that we do is, right behind the City of Kerrville, 9 when they file their request to have the E.I.C. fund the City 10 of Kerrville's contribution to KEDF in a like amount, $15,000, 11 I -- I intend to file, unless somebody here jumps up and down 12 and says don't you dare do that, -- 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I encourage you to do it. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: -- an application with E.I.C. to fund 15 our $15,000 also. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So the other -- the rest of 17 us know, Judge, that Mr. Hofmann determined that the City 18 wasn't going to fund economic development; that that that was 19 a proper expenditure for E.I.C. And so they took it out of 20 their line -- out of their line item, moved it over for E.I.C. 21 to fund. So, the Judge and I learned about that and said 22 what's good enough for the goose is good enough for the 23 gander. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Go for it. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I have the application in-hand. As 7-31-06 bwk 147 1 soon as the City files, we're going to ask to be notified 2 immediately and get a copy of whatever they filed, and we're 3 going to change the names to protect the innocent and go right 4 behind them. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Works for me. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But you're going to leave 15 7 grand in our budget? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just in case. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Believe me, we're going to need it 10 somewhere. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the -- I know the City 12 came over here a while back and said something about economic 13 development, wanting us to come to the committee. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the -- the whole 16 economic development thing, I'd be in favor of getting it into 17 one entity. I think the City agrees. The problem is, the 18 City and I have different entities in mind that should be in 19 charge of that economic development. I think KEDF. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Should be KEDF. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The City wants the City. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a problem. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think it's -- that fight's 24 coming up, and I think it goes a lot into how -- what 25 direction -- what we do. 7-31-06 bwk 148 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Is the City's organization 2 funded by 4B? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not internally. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What -- 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That would be a barrier. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's the question, Dave? 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: 4B sales tax. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Would that be a barrier to 10 merging the two departments -- two organizations? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, because KEDF is outside 12 of that. The 4B, though, is supposed to have a dedicated 13 amount of money for economic development. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: They've got a very broad 15 view of what constitutes economic development. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, they're getting better. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Are they? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: They are. It's much improved. In 20 fact, they're talking now about, in addition to the 15, which 21 I hope translates to 30, E.I.C. has under serious discussion 22 funding $50,000 directly to KEDF for operational expenses, and 23 that'll be the first time that that's occurred. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: They've had one sitting over there 7-31-06 bwk 149 1 for $8,000 for some very -- for some training and some 2 marketing things, and that still hasn't been approved -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: -- fully, has it? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And EIC's also looking at, for 7 the first time -- this will help the county -- funding the 8 grants for the airport. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Grant match. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Grant match. The City has taken 11 that to E.I.C., so the City won't fund it and we won't fund 12 it; it will come out of E.I.C. 100 percent, the match portion 13 of it. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Apparently, that's been -- 15 that's been approved. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The concept. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Conceptually, and the 18 dollars earmarked, but they want some different -- the 19 paperwork styled differently or project identified differently 20 or whatever. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, E.I.C.'s -- I mean, you 22 know, and I -- you know, that was Hofmann that came up with 23 that idea, but he's trying to get economic development out of 24 their budget as much as he can. I haven't quite figured out 25 how that translated to the Airport Board picking up 25 percent 7-31-06 bwk 150 1 of Mindy Wendele's salary, but it did. 2 MR. TOMLINSON: We at least need to budget that 3 30 -- that $3,000 that we got from that co-op -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, the Comptroller. 5 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. We have to spend that money 6 for -- 7 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the capital credits, unclaimed 8 capital credits. That's got to be spent for economic 9 development. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How about -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: E.I.C. to do 15, and we give 12 another 3,000 donation and get double -- good press. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That'd be all right. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: West Texas County Judges and 15 Commissioners Association function, that's economic 16 development. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: We may have to trot that one by the 18 County Attorney to see if that fits in that niche. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd rather not. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: But if you want to write it up, we'll 21 be glad to submit it to him. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Looking for a little help to 23 host court night, right? 24 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, what else? The KCAD contract, 7-31-06 bwk 151 1 when I did this, we had not received their budget. I got it 2 just about a week ago, I think, and you gentlemen should have 3 received it too. Have you received it? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have not seen it. That 5 doesn't mean it's not in my box. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let me -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think I've seen it. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me go dig that up, 'cause I don't 9 think it's -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm real interested in their 11 salary increase this year. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. I was thinking about that this 13 morning. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They have always -- if you 15 remember, they have always increased the salaries over there 16 by 3 and 4 percent. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: KCAD? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Sometimes 5, and 19 that's every year. There's got to be a stopping point of that 20 somewhere. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're just trying to keep up 22 with the City. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Seems like those 24 agencies that have boards that are a layer between the 25 decision making -- 7-31-06 bwk 152 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Quasi. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- wind up getting a lot 3 more money. 911 comes to mind. Their salaries have gone up 4 40 percent in four or five years. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But he's also cut his staff. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Not much left to do. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Did 911 ever set up that 8 Reverse 911 situation? Reverse 911 being that if you had an 9 emergency taking place, that they could call out to -- they 10 could initiate the call-out and warn people based on where the 11 emergency is taking place? Remember, we talked about it in 12 court here a couple days. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I remember talking about it. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We talked about it, I thought, 15 with Rusty. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, we talked about it with 17 Amerine. And I just wanted to know whether or not he ever 18 instituted it, because the reason I asked is because AACOG has 19 instituted it for all the counties that they cover on 911. 20 So, it can be done and it is being done all over the 21 surrounding counties. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, don't get mad. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, I'm not mad. I just 24 want to know if it ever happened. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We may have a flood sometime. 7-31-06 bwk 153 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tell me again what it does. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If we had an emergency, 3 whatever the emergency might be, they now have the capability 4 of initiating a call to warn people about the emergency. And 5 they can do that through technology; they can draw a circle 6 around a certain area. If you had -- if you have a chemical 7 spill and chlorine's going all over, they could isolate that 8 to determine where that is and initiate calls to everybody 9 within that area where the crisis is, or a flood coming down 10 or whatever. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Last I remember about that, 12 Mr. Williams, was the -- it took an equipment purchase, and 13 that was on the table somewhere at 911 or -- 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I was wondering if it -- 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You're right, a lot of 17 places have it and it does work. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, it does. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- if it were related to the 20 cell phone deal and all. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't know; maybe you can 22 inquire and find out. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Related to that in any way 24 with satellites. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That might be a piece of 7-31-06 bwk 154 1 it. But if you've got the equipment today, you can put a 2 message on there and say, "Call everybody in 238 and tell them 3 the river's rising," for example. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And the reason I bring that 5 up is because I just learned at the last AACOG Board meeting 6 that they've instituted it for all the counties that they 7 manage. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a good question. I'd 9 forgotten about that. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Buster, they all got raises plus 11 the COLA, second page. They all got a 4.1 percent COLA and 12 salary increases. 13 (Discussion off the record.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Allocation of Kerr County is 119,010. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you see that written 16 somewhere? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm, back page of that last -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: -- entity allocation, estimated 20 allocation. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And what was it last year? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Shows to be 116,106. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 116,106. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the percent could have 25 changed. 7-31-06 bwk 155 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, 17 percent of levy -- 3 it's interesting; Kerrville is 13 percent. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, why -- why is that? Why 5 are we so far different between us and the city? Because of 6 population or valuation, or -- 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Tax levy. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tax levy. We have the whole 9 county; they just have the city. What's interesting is we 10 look at the first column to the third column, the taxable 11 amount versus the levy amount. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Did you say first column 13 or -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, first column under City of 15 Kerrville. Their certified value is 1 billion -- 1.3 billion. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're 2.8 billion, yet the 18 levy's almost the same. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Their rate's higher. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: A lot higher. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's enough so you don't 23 want to move to the city. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Outstanding, their rates are 25 that high. No wonder they have so much money. All the sales 7-31-06 bwk 156 1 tax money on top of that. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, let's see. One, two -- 3 how many of these entities here actually vote to approve this 4 budget? Ingram and Kerrville and us? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: I think everybody does. But, in 6 reality, if K.I.S.D. wanted to control it, they might be able 7 to control all of the seats. They can certainly control a 8 majority of the seats. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They got one school district. 10 You wouldn't be in control of this. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They're almost 50 percent of 12 the budget. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're 47, so if you get Center 14 Point or one of the smaller districts, you go with 50. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: But you can spread your votes -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I understand. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: -- any way you want to, and they can 18 do theirs in such a manner that -- where they can virtually -- 19 they can control -- what are there, five? They can control 20 easily four of the five. And if they were to really calculate 21 it closely and get a little cooperation, maybe, from a smaller 22 district, they could command all five of them. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It doesn't do any good to 24 protest. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, it doesn't do any good, 7-31-06 bwk 157 1 but you can do it. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You don't have to approve 3 it. You just -- somebody will override you. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: In fact, there will be an agenda item 5 coming up on this, as -- as required. There's a certain 6 period -- they're not going to act on this until, I think, the 7 25th of this month, and then we will consider it after that. 8 We have a period of time in which to consider it, and there 9 will be an agenda item come before the Court. I've already 10 got it plugged in. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think it was three years 12 ago, I believe, that you did not approve a budget. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, why did you not 14 consider the Crisis Council this time? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I suspect it's because they hadn't 16 drawn down their funds. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Hadn't drawn down? 18 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good reason. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Are they still in business? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, yeah, I think so. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. Got a sizable grant 23 out of AACOG not too long ago. 24 MR. TOMLINSON: Do they have a new director? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. 7-31-06 bwk 158 1 MR. TOMLINSON: That may be the reason they haven't 2 drawn it down; they don't know to. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, they have a new 4 director. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: No, I just don't anything about it, 6 'cause I didn't know exactly where they were. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And Big Brothers and Big 8 Sisters are back in the picture? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Yeah, they were in this past 10 year also. What happened was, if you'll notice, CASA was 11 five -- well, they didn't show here, but it was five. 12 Actually, I only go through '04 -- I'm not sure that's 13 correct, 'cause I think -- I think the previous year it was 14 5,000 at CASA, and CASA discontinued providing services to the 15 juvenile court; wrote me a letter and unilaterally said, 16 "We're not going to do it any more." So, I allocated -- 17 downsized CASA and allocated the difference to Big Brother, 18 Big Sister. They work with some of the juvenile programs. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: CASA said they're not going 20 to participate in your programs? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: They would no longer provide services 22 to my court, my juvenile court. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why did you put anything in 24 there, then? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, got an eraser? 7-31-06 bwk 159 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, that's the whole reason. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: They provide services not just to my 4 court. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I know, but that's -- that 6 was the attractive part from this Court's point of view, 7 though. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, if that's the way the Court 9 wants to view it. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They serve all of the 11 taxpayers via the Commissioners Court. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What court do they serve? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I assume -- I don't know this to be a 15 fact, but I assume that they still provide services to 16 possibly the District Courts and the County Court at Law when 17 they're asked to do so, primarily custody cases and things 18 like that. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. I kind of understand 20 Dietert Claim, but what's public transportation? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the ART system. 22 They've run to-date, through 10 months, about 11,000-plus 23 calls for service to both those 60-plus and 60-minus people. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the vans, not the bus 25 things? 7-31-06 bwk 160 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, there are a couple of 2 the larger buses they run, but not the trolleys. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Trolleys? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not the trolleys. The vans 5 and a couple larger buses. So, they're serving the 6 neighborhood. They really are. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, I don't question that. 8 I'm just thinking, when we have our conference, I want to use 9 those trolleys. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I know you do. We'll go to 11 work on that. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And especially if we were 13 funding them, I really don't want to hear a "no." 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We'll work on it, 15 Commissioner, see what we can work out. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: I like a guy that thinks ahead. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Be some consequences. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Today. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We made a pitch through 20 Mayor Smith for the City to participate in that, too. Because 21 a whole bunch of those 11,000 calls, which, by the end of the 22 budget year, may be close to 13,000 or 14,000 service calls, a 23 lot of them are within the city, and not just county. All 24 over. The City has never participated in it, so I put the bee 25 on the mayor, and he ought to be thinking about that as well. 7-31-06 bwk 161 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On that topic, last year we did 2 fund the sesquicentennial thing for 2,500, which I don't see a 3 whole lot different than Buster's party. I would -- I mean, 4 as a -- I don't know if Buster wants this in here or not. He 5 didn't know I was going to say this, but I don't have a 6 problem with the County funding $2,500, as long as Rex gives 7 it approval. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, that's the hangup right 9 there. I think the argument is going to be that the 10 sesquicentennial serviced all the people of the county, 11 whereas Buster's party is just going to serve -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Then we could put 2,500 in 13 Economic Development and fund it out of that. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd rather not have the 15 record reflecting this is "Buster's party." I'd rather have 16 the record reflecting this is the West Texas Commissioners and 17 Judges Association, or whatever it is -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's fine, Bill. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- coming here. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's correct, but I think -- I 21 mean, I think it's a legitimate economic development function, 22 as we talked to the mayor about it as well and asked the City 23 to help fund it. And we might want to put something in -- or 24 you have that $3,000, that -- that fund which goes to economic 25 development. I think we need to maybe keep that back. I 7-31-06 bwk 162 1 think it's legitimately for something like the trolleys or 2 some of the other expenses that come out of a major -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're looking for 4 lightning? Is that what you're doing? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Looking to see who's here. I'm 6 not -- 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I thought you thought 8 lightning was going to strike you. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, when a group comes into 10 town, though, and -- and within a week, spends between two and 11 three million dollars, I would call that economic development. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, certainly economic 14 impact, that's for sure. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: We could call it just a late 16 sesquicentennial; they were just a little late arriving. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They thought it was this 18 next year instead of '06. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I thought I was going to 20 get through this four years without going to jail. (Laughter.) 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Huh-uh. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Let's leave it where it is. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would like to suggest for 24 the Court's consideration that -- that we consider increasing 25 our support of the Dietert Senior Center by $5,000. 7-31-06 bwk 163 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. Just one -- 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Even if you got to eat lunch 3 over there a couple of times? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Obviously, I'm never going to 5 get to do it. Paid for it myself. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And I make that -- I make 7 that appeal on the basis of the amount of good work that they 8 do for the senior population in this county, and that if they 9 weren't there -- if Harry Dietert, in his wisdom, hadn't 10 created it, the County and the City both would have been 11 providing a lot more than that in terms of services. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I wouldn't disagree with that, 13 but I also think it's -- we're glad that Harry Dietert did do 14 it. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, and we're happy by 15 16 grand. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I tried. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Don't you go repeating that. 19 Don't you repeat this conversation. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You get hold of Kathy and 21 expunge it from the record. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Y'all tell me what's going on with 24 the airport, if you wouldn't mind. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. 7-31-06 bwk 164 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh. We'd be happy to. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can I sit out there with you? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where are we? What tab are you 4 on? Same one? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Same tab, just a different sheet. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I missed that one. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Same tab, different sheet. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: We can talk about the fire contract, 9 if you want to do that. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Next page. No, it's two 12 pages. Fire. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, it's under -- do you have a 14 number -- revised number? I have it in my office, if you 15 didn't -- 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't have it with me. I 17 can get it. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's 200. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let me see if I can 20 resurrect it. Let's take a five-minute break, Judge. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Stand at ease for five 22 minutes. 23 (Recess taken from 3:14 p.m. to 3:23 p.m.) 24 - - - - - - - - - - 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order. We 7-31-06 bwk 165 1 had a short recess, and now we're working on airport. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We previously had submitted it 3 to be 330,000. The number will be, it looks like, 195. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And that's a combination 5 number. Management contract, our share, which will be about 6 162 or something like that. And 33,334 for our share of 7 certain project matches. But the good news is that we're not 8 required to fund -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 195 total. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- an additional $190,000 11 worth of project matches. Those are going to go to E.I.C. per 12 City Manager. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: So, from an operational standpoint, 14 our portion is 195? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the way we see it. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And there's two things on that. 19 Of the management contract, $95,000 of that work is going to 20 be bid out, and our Road and Bridge Department is going to bid 21 on that, so there may be a -- some of that money may be coming 22 back into that. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: What portion of it? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 95,000. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 7-31-06 bwk 166 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Of that total. Or 95,000 -- our 2 half, 45,000. We deal in halves all the time. But the other 3 part of that is, since that work is being bid out, that number 4 we estimated, we put in here what the City estimated they were 5 going to charge, which is a high number in our estimation, so 6 that probably -- probably a little bit more than that. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What kind of things are 8 going to be bid on? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mowing, maintenance, driving up 10 and down the runways looking for little pieces of metal that 11 fell off planes, and -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Runway maintenance, street 13 maintenance, lights, taking care of the lighting. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The City billed the airport 15 $95,000 for that work last year. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: None of the administrative 17 stuff? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, no administrative. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We'll get to that -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Next year. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- next year. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Oh, this -- I congratulate 23 you. This is going in the right direction, with the potential 24 to go even more in the right direction. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There's no -- is there 7-31-06 bwk 167 1 maintenance of, like, the road that comes in and then the 2 little roads that come down to the hangars? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's included in there, yes. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So that is part of it? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And so, every three years or 7 so, we come along and resurface the roads; it's in their 8 budget numbers, and it's a line item for a specific year when 9 they do any work on it. Or if there's a pothole, they fix it. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's going to be bid now, 11 whereas the City used to do a lot of that. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: There is a budget proposed 13 by -- approved by the -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Airport Board. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- Airport Board. Is there 16 any indication of the City's buying into it? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, yeah. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They came up with the numbers. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: After four attempts. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We may want to hire you two 25 as negotiators. 7-31-06 bwk 168 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We've done our share of 3 that. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: You can wear that pair of britches I 5 had Dennis Brown build for me. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. That completes our specific 8 list. What else do you have, gentlemen? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, are we going to talk 10 about the -- under this same tab, there are a couple others. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Fire. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Library. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, sure. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Parks is there. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let me look ahead a little 17 bit. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Fire is there. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We have a meeting in a week 20 or two -- or a couple weeks with the City. What do we intend 21 to do? Are we hoping we'll be ready to go to them and say, 22 "This is what we'll do"? Or what do we propose to do on joint 23 operations? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the library -- I mean, 25 the airport is a -- you know, I think a review of where we're 7-31-06 bwk 169 1 going there, I don't think the City's real happy with the 2 direction the Airport Board is going, but they're reluctantly 3 doing it. Just so everyone is on the same page, where Bill 4 and I are going is that I would say probably a -- a slim -- or 5 a strong minority or a slight majority of the Airport Board is 6 unhappy with the -- the alignment with the Airport Manager 7 right now, that he's a City employee. I suspect that next 8 year, there will be an option for the Airport Board either to 9 have the Airport Manager report straight to the Airport Board, 10 or change operators of the management contract, which would be 11 switching from the City to the County, which would mean that 12 we would have to hire an Airport Manager. The Airport Manager 13 currently makes about $80,000 a year, which is probably too 14 much. There's a real question that has come up recently of 15 whether his allegiance lies with his boss, being the City, or 16 with the Airport Board, which is his -- who he really should 17 be working for. So, anyway, I think to bring this to a head 18 next year, we're going to meet probably right at the first of 19 the year -- around the first of the year, get a very detailed 20 job description of that prepared by the Airport Manager, and 21 then we can look at it; both the Airport Board look at it and 22 the County can look at it. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's a two-step project, 24 first step being to be in a position to bid on the outside 25 services. And we really think we can do that cheaper than 7-31-06 bwk 170 1 it's being charged right now. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And it was -- it took a long 3 time to get -- they pulled $95,000 out of their management 4 contract and put it out for bid. And that's basically -- it's 5 all the work being done by their Streets Department. There's 6 a -- one, the County pays its people less than City pays its 7 people. And we would not -- we don't anticipate they're using 8 their Streets Manager to do a lot of the inspections, where we 9 don't envision that sort of -- should be done. I think we've 10 talked to Leonard about that. He's more of a supervisory 11 level type person doing a lot of that work, so you're getting 12 billed at a much lower hourly rate. Quite frankly, they do -- 13 they just waste money in the way they operate things. So, 14 that's kind of the direction where we're going with that. And 15 they're -- we're fortunate to have a pretty strong Airport 16 Board that'll, you know, require the manager -- the management 17 contract, you know, do things in an economical way. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Whenever we get a question 19 from a board member, "Why are you doing this?" You know, "We 20 think this contract is pretty good, the management contract 21 with the City." The response from us is basically the same 22 all the time. We have one goal: End taxpayer subsidy. We 23 need to get there. That's the goal. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's the only goal. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And with the -- and I think it's 7-31-06 bwk 171 1 quite doable with E.I.C. picking up the grant funding. That 2 picks up a big portion of it. And if you start whittling down 3 on the rest of it and pick up revenues a little bit, it's 4 doable. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's only going to take 6 another couple contracts out there, facilities-type contracts 7 or ground leases, -- 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- to get it up till it's 10 pretty close. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. But it's going -- and I 12 don't -- this doesn't need to all be discussed at our joint 13 meeting, but it's kind of where Bill and I have been hammering 14 on them for the last year to get to the point that we're 15 bidding out some of the work out there, and we're doing it. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: When y'all were looking at that 17 contract to try and figure out what could be bid out, what was 18 administrative, what -- what we could have a shot at, was it 19 already broken out into pieces in terms of dollars? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It was broken out in terms 21 of hours. Hours. And, see, the fallacy of the way they do 22 it, in my opinion, was they would tell us, "Well, it takes 'X' 23 number of hours per week in finance, 'X' number of hours per 24 week for city management, 'X' number of our streets, 'X' 25 number for this," and then they take the high, which would be 7-31-06 bwk 172 1 the City Manager's salary, and the low, the guy that sprays 2 herbicide on the weeds, and they mash all that together and 3 give you an average hourly rate. That's the way they do it. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: That's how they came up with the 5 number? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: As to those items that we're going to 8 take a run at, you said it was 95,000? Was that the starting 9 number that was in those categories, or were those 10 recreated -- restructured? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They were there because we kept 12 on going back to the first budget document they provided to 13 us. Every time they'd kind of -- they'd go and reshuffle, 14 we'd say, "No, no, no. Back here in May, you said this." 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We've had some fun times 16 over there. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And they could -- and because we 18 were able to do that, they couldn't reshuffle. Actually, they 19 had a -- almost a $40,000 mistake that we found at the last 20 meeting when we approved the numbers, and we caught them and 21 they admitted to it. I mean, they said it was a mistake. I 22 don't know if it's an oversight or mistake, but they -- 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Aside from the Airport 24 Manager, who else from the City were you working with? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Say it again? 7-31-06 bwk 173 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Who else in the City were 2 you working with? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Legal is the biggest portion 4 outside the Airport Manager. And then -- and we were trying 5 to get that split with Rex, but they nixed that. And our 6 approach was, let's not try to go for everything right now; 7 let's get something that we bid out our first year and see how 8 to try to get that to work properly. But we pay a -- you 9 know, accounting, H.R. -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The Finance Department is a 11 big piece of it. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The Finance Department is big. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But, you know, they're 14 ticketing us with H.R., Public Works Director, and for what 15 purpose? You know, he may have to look over the sewer and 16 water lines. Nonsense. The sewer and water lines ran two 17 years ago, you know. So, just stuff like that. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We've been a cash cow. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, yeah. We've been paying, 20 and they -- there's no question in my mind that they have 21 inflated their equipment-an-hour rate as well. I probably 22 shouldn't go over all this long debate; that's gone on for 23 months over there. But they billed the Airport Board for a 24 piece of equipment, not counting labor -- it happened to be a 25 piece of equipment that I'm personally leasing right now, is 7-31-06 bwk 174 1 how I -- the reason it flagged me. They're billing us $75 an 2 hour. I lease it from Holt, the same person they're leasing 3 their piece of equipment from, and my cost on this equipment 4 is a little bit more like $19 an hour. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: 19? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 19. And I went -- I saw that, 7 and it's like, "Oh." So I asked Len -- I said, "Len," you 8 know, "what is your cost?" I don't want a profit margin. 9 What do we pay, the cost the County pays on a one-year lease 10 on this equipment? What does Schwarz or our other contractors 11 that we bid out charge? And all that. And they also went 12 further; went to Corps of Engineers, the standard rate charge. 13 The County's cost -- I didn't add diesel, insurance things to 14 my $20 or $19 or anything. If you add all that in, it gets up 15 to about $35 an hour. The County's at about $30. Corps of 16 Engineers is about $42 or something like that. And then, if 17 you go with Schwarz with an operator, it was, like, $65. It 18 was still -- the City was $10 higher than a private contractor 19 was for equipment only, and they were throwing in an operator. 20 So, we started going round and round on that, and that's where 21 we really started pushing really hard to get that part of the 22 business bid out. They're -- I don't want to say -- 23 "overcharging" may be too strong. They were charging at a 24 very high rate. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They charged -- they 7-31-06 bwk 175 1 charged, for example, just to give you one other for instance, 2 charged three days to do herbicide around the runway. Three 3 days. Leonard can do it in three hours with his equipment, 4 with the arms on his tractor. Just another example. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They charged -- one more. The 6 City has a lawnmowing tractor, kind of like same as Road and 7 Bridge has. The Airport Board -- the airport -- the airport 8 -- I think we pay it here. The airport was being charged 9 $16,000 a year rental of that piece of equipment. We could 10 buy it -- I said, "$16,000 a year?" I said, "We can buy it, 11 have it paid for in three years. The City can't use it." I 12 mean, it's absurd, the rates they were charging. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Stuff like that. It's been 14 a fun exercise. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's why we're confident we 16 can do it cheaper than they can. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In that context, though, you 18 know, while we're on this business of bidding and taking over, 19 a couple things have to happen, and Jon and I have had some 20 discussions about this. And some of this goes to the 21 synergies you're looking for. The consolidation you're 22 looking to and some of these issues are still in front of us 23 by reason of our having not come to grips with the Maintenance 24 Department budget. But we see swinging the Parks out of the 25 Maintenance Department over to Leonard, because the parks 7-31-06 bwk 176 1 mowing function is -- is right on target with mowing the 2 airport and all that good stuff. So, we see swinging that 3 over as a potential, whatever that man is, or however -- man 4 and a half, whatever we've got there, and moving it over to 5 Len's department for purposes of that, and so they can take on 6 the airport. Also, we visited this topic one other time, and 7 the Court needs to think about it and weigh in on it maybe 8 again. We talked one other time about the possibility of 9 Texas Arts and Crafts Fair, River Star Park people handling 10 the booking for the county facilities. And there was one real 11 great reason for the -- a lot of reasons to do it, and some of 12 it has to do with our own personnel and the costs for our 13 continuing to do it. 14 But, by the same token, they are out there next to 15 the Ag Barn, which is the one that's used the most, and they 16 know what's going on. And -- and they're in a good position 17 to do that, and they're willing to take on the function of 18 booking for us for county facilities, which essentially is the 19 Ag Barn and Union Church. So, that's another piece of it -- 20 of the puzzle that has to get sorted out. And it goes back 21 down to our Maintenance Department, and it's a two-headed 22 monster down there right now. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I also think, on the River Star 24 facility, the issue -- I think we probably will be hearing 25 from them in the next year about some expansion, new 7-31-06 bwk 177 1 construction out there, which will tie in with some long-term 2 goals, basically building more of an inside type facility, 3 exhibit hall type facility out there. I don't know if it will 4 happen or not, but if it does, it does fit into some other 5 things and gets them a little bit involved with that booking. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They're going to come up 7 with kind of a master plan and ask us to take a look at it, 8 and it's going to involve some consideration on our part, 9 perhaps to do something -- not in this budget year, but, for 10 example, moving the outdoor arena, which is not a big deal, 11 relocating it on our grounds. So, we may want to think 12 through that. Depending on the type of facility that they see 13 as important to the whole mix, whether it's their functions or 14 county type functions or general public events, they have some 15 thoughts on that, and when they get their thoughts together, 16 time to bring the Court into the picture and take a look at 17 it. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think what that -- what their 19 big picture seems to do, in my mind, is that it lets the 20 County have a truly a pure ag facility only, and some of the 21 other things that are needed in the community are built by 22 basically a private partnership with the County, the County 23 providing the property. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think they may have got a 25 handle on getting some grant money, and they very well may 7-31-06 bwk 178 1 have, which would go towards a public -- multipurpose public 2 events type building. And if we -- if we concentrate on the 3 agricultural people, it might work. And there's U.S.D.A. 4 money out there for those type of things. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One last thing I just want to 6 toss out. You mentioned a couple of these already. In the 7 reorganization, something to think about; it may work to move 8 Maintenance under Road and Bridge, and then move Subdivision 9 and Floodplain together with Environmental Health, Animal 10 Control, with a new supervisor. It does a couple of things. 11 In doing that, it allows probably a better use of the 12 personnel in Road and Bridge, the office staff out there. 13 Eliminates the requirement for them to need another clerical 14 person out there, probably, as well. But kind of -- some of 15 the big contracts, and they bid -- they do contracts. 16 Maintenance does contracts, annual contracts. They kind of 17 work together. They really have to be ahead -- just be adding 18 another supervisor, really, under Leonard that would be over 19 the maintenance type work. But that -- and then the -- I 20 think you would move subdivision out. It works pretty well 21 there. But it could also fit with -- Dave's talked about code 22 compliance -- fairly easily. 23 The question I have, really, if you bring in a code 24 compliance manager, is there enough work for that person? 25 Subdivision isn't really that much work. I mean, it's a lot 7-31-06 bwk 179 1 of monitoring things. Animal Control, I mean, trying to 2 figure out how you're going to get a supervisor to do any -- I 3 mean, to do more than supervising, and we really don't have 4 the luxury of that. You could possibly put it in with -- have 5 them do some of the Environmental Health work. Miguel's been 6 after us to get a Solid Waste person there. That could kind 7 of do some of that work. It could do subdivisions, and 8 floodplain can get rolled in there. Floodplain, we may want 9 to wait a little bit of time 'cause of the certification 10 required. We just got everybody up to speed at Road and 11 Bridge doing that, but, you know, I think those four could 12 work fairly well. I'm trying -- been trying to figure out net 13 numbers of people, what that really does, but I don't think 14 you really are adding anybody. I think you can do some 15 reshuffling a little bit. And you're adding somebody, but 16 they're already being asked for collectively in various 17 departments this year. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I would do that and, as you 19 suggest, bring the floodplain in a year later. Let this new 20 manager swallow what's there, and I would eliminate the 21 supervisor in Environmental Health Department. That person 22 becomes one of the -- both O.S.S.F. and Solid Waste 23 inspectors, and eliminates the need for -- or seeming need to 24 add staff. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The reason I asked the question 7-31-06 bwk 180 1 about how many clerical staff they have, they have two 2 full-time office staff down there. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I just -- I think you can 5 put subdivision -- you may need to change the level of one of 6 those staff members. I'm not sure who's doing what exactly, 7 but the clerical part of Animal Control, the clerical part of 8 Subdivision, the clerical part of Environmental Health; all 9 those functions should be able to -- and Floodplain should be 10 able to be done with two people. I just don't see you'd have 11 to add any additional staff to that. So, you're adding in 12 a -- a code compliance type manager, which is -- would do the 13 subdivision work that Leonard's currently doing. You're kind 14 of substituting a Maintenance Manager in for that slot. I 15 mean, you're paying someone a little bit more in this area, 16 having Leonard do that oversight. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And Tish is one of those 18 listed under clerical, and it was our agreement that she was 19 an inspector. So, of course, everybody does some clerical 20 work; all of us do, but this would free her up to be in the 21 field more. She's in the field now quite a bit, but -- 22 JUDGE TINLEY: I think she's in the field a good bit 23 of the time. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tommy? 25 MR. TOMLINSON: Something I just noticed. You 7-31-06 bwk 181 1 talked about moving Parks Maintenance over to Road and Bridge. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 4 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, in this -- in this budget that 5 was submitted by Glenn, that Glenn did, -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 7 MR. TOMLINSON: -- he already -- there's no salary 8 in that budget as presented to anybody, so it's already out. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you talking about what 10 Leonard submitted? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, what Glenn -- 12 MR. TOMLINSON: No, the budget that Glenn submitted. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, Glenn submitted. 14 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah, for the Parks Maintenance. 15 It's Department 513. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What tab is that? 17 MR. TOMLINSON: There's no salary in there already. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There was before? 19 MR. TOMLINSON: So he's eliminated that position. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Wonder where -- who that person 21 was. Was that Shel? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Sonny. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sonny. Where's he now? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Glenn restructured and reallocated 25 his people under either courthouse or -- or Ag Barn. 7-31-06 bwk 182 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Basically, inside and outside 3 facilities, is what he did. 4 MR. TOMLINSON: I think it's a combination. I think 5 he took -- he took the supervisor's salary out of the Ag Barn. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 7 MR. TOMLINSON: And added a supervisor and another 8 full-time employee. So, I think he got -- he moved one of 9 those persons from -- from this Parks Maintenance. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: He did. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That was his two-division 12 scenario. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, inside and outside. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Essentially saying, "Here's 15 how you can do it and not replace me." And that's good 16 thinking, but we -- we're taking a step further on this one. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. I think we need -- I 18 mean, I think that there's -- the setup that we have right now 19 that I see is two office people, where we don't need two 20 office people and we don't -- we have two -- they're kind of 21 somewhere between clerical and supervisors. And my view is, 22 we need to have a Maintenance Supervisor who is knowledgeable 23 on maintenance, and then maybe have a -- a crew chief-type of 24 a custodial. But a lot of -- see, the structure that I 25 envision for Maintenance really fits in with the way Road and 7-31-06 bwk 183 1 Bridge is currently operating. You have your supervisors -- 2 or a crew chief type, really, not supervisors. And I kind of 3 look at -- he could then roll some of the mowing and parks 4 maintenance into the grounds of these buildings, too. I mean, 5 mowing is mowing. It's nice to rely on community service and 6 inmates, but it's just not reliable. And I think our 7 courthouse grounds need to have a little bit more steady type 8 work with -- and, really, it looks trashy to me most of the 9 time. We don't spend any money on it. I don't want to spend 10 a whole lot of money, but it would be nice to start getting 11 grass growing in a few spots. I think that can be done under 12 this -- or a basic program to take care of it. And he put -- 13 I think the airport, if County's successful on winning that 14 contract, we can allow -- hire one full-time person, and this 15 person then could do the airport, parks, and some of the other 16 maintenance, I mean, or groundskeeping type work. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: When -- when is that contract going 19 to be bid? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which one? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Airport. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The airport. It's -- I think it 23 will be November 1st, the start date on it. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Probably. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So there won't be any mowing, 7-31-06 bwk 184 1 probably, the end of this year. It's going to be some time 2 to -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If it were up to the Airport 4 Manager, it would be bid next year this same time. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are we still on the airport? 6 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. 8 MR. TOMLINSON: We're wandering. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, I say that the city fire 10 contract, we leave it 125,000. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's what I got. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And you zeroed it out? 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No, I got -- I don't want 14 to be a cheapskate. I want to pay -- continue to pay them 15 125. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 125. And then Junction, if 17 we don't have a contract, I'd say zero that one out. Did we 18 ever get a contract with them? 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No. They'll provide the 20 service, but they don't want a contract. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, we can't pay them 22 unless we have a contract. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: They don't want pay. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So we're zeroing out that 25 line, all right. 7-31-06 bwk 185 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What tab are you on? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Same one. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I've closed my book five times. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My thinking on this fire 5 contract thing -- stop and think about this just for a minute. 6 They're going to go out -- they're going to send -- if there's 7 a house fire, a structure fire in Kerrville South, they're 8 going to send a pumper out there, right? And it has 300, 9 maybe 400 gallons of water on it. They can pump that in one 10 minute. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then -- I mean, so 13 they're there one minute. And so they're going to hook up to 14 a hydrant, which there's no such thing -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- out there. I don't get 17 it. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And the other difference, 19 Commissioner, is that pumper doesn't draft. They can't back 20 up to a swimming pool. The volunteer fire departments, most 21 or all of their equipment does draft. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Correct. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: To back up to the river or 24 something. Or they can show up out there -- no, they can't 25 even fill up their pumper, 'cause it doesn't draft. Well, no, 7-31-06 bwk 186 1 I think the pumper can hook up to at least suck the water out 2 of it. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This should be in your box, 5 the latest explanation. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: From the Fire Chief. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So that's where I'm at. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They don't send out -- under the 10 current Kerrville South contract, I thought they sent out a 11 truck and a pumper. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, a pumper's a big old 13 thing. It's a big old truck, big thing. Big old thing. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Red with lights on top. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, sirens, drivers, the 16 whole thing. But that -- that's the big -- that's the guts of 17 the contract, is that you have an attack truck, a pumper truck 18 that you can supposedly hook up to a fire hydrant and stand 19 there and -- and put out 700, maybe -- probably 1,000 gallons 20 a minute. It's -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So the pumper truck, it's just 22 like -- it's a regular looking fire truck? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, it's a regular fire 24 truck. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That you see coming by 7-31-06 bwk 187 1 here. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That you can hook up to a 3 hydrant. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, there's some hydrants 6 out there. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They don't work. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But you can't hook up to 9 those things. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You'd collapse the lines. 11 MR. TOMLINSON: Oh, yeah. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So I don't get it. We've 13 never had that conversation, to my knowledge. They're going 14 to be there -- I mean, they can empty that truck in one 15 minute. What do they do? Turn around, go back to the 16 station? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I guess. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And that's our 125,000? I 19 just don't get it. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I've never gotten it. But -- I 21 mean, I think -- 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So I'm just -- we're leaving 23 it at 125 until we can get something better going on our own. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, you all got this 25 response to Judge Tinley. This deserves some study. They 7-31-06 bwk 188 1 responded quite a bit to Kerrville South, 200 times, including 2 First Responders, more or less. The response to the rest of 3 the county was 24 times; 4 structure fires, 8 grass fires -- I 4 mean 8 other fires, and 12 grass fires. So, I need to think 5 about this some more, too. My point is that every volunteer 6 fire department, with their $13,000 a year, responds 10 times 7 more. Every one of them. So, we're getting very little for 8 our money for the backup to our volunteer fire departments. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What I find interesting, 10 too, is point number one in this letter. The City -- this is 11 over the signature of the Fire Chief, I believe. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The City does not have 14 mutual aid agreements with any of the county volunteer fire 15 departments. The contract the City has with the County states 16 we will assist, blah, blah, blah, blah. I thought the 17 emergency management services program required as an automatic 18 that you have mutual aid agreements in place. Our volunteer 19 fire departments seem to think that's the case. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Commissioner, I need to 21 know more about their -- I'm guessing they're being real 22 clever with their language. They may not have a contract -- 23 quote, mutual aid agreement, written documentation signed by 24 the lawyer. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: They have a mutual aid obligation. 7-31-06 bwk 189 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: They've got an obligation. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Exactly. That's my point. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's my whole point. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Meaning they're required to 6 have one, but they do not have one. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're required to serve. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They're required to respond. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What do you think? 11 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't know. I know that -- I was 12 a fireman for 15 years, and I know -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That was 112 years ago, 14 though. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: I know that a pumper truck is 16 absolutely worthless outside of the city limits. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure. Sure. So this 18 contract -- to me, this contract is a moot thing. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What they need to do is, if 20 they're going to send anything, send a grass truck. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Yeah. That you can 22 run down to the creek and at least get -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Little bit of water. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- more water. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I want to keep bragging on 7-31-06 bwk 190 1 the -- the volunteer departments, where I don't have any 2 credibility, but they can send -- just the ones in west Kerr 3 County can send 20 trucks out, and they all can draft, and 4 they're all carrying a lot more water than a pumper truck. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And we own that tanker, or 6 did. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Road and Bridge? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, Road and Bridge owns 9 that tanker that is available to roll to those kinds of 10 things. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: And, in fact, I think routinely does 12 roll to grass fires for water availability. And it's rigged 13 so they can hook right up to it, I think. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But -- and, you know, if the 15 City is counting on that particular truck -- or I think that 16 they have some kind of tank truck; not as big as ours, but I 17 think they have something. I just don't get it, I'm sorry. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We learned what the terminology 19 was for a water transport truck, if you'll recall. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What was it? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't remember what it was. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I can't remember either. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, we want to keep it at 125, 24 but we want them to send a truck that'll work? Is that what 25 we're saying? 7-31-06 bwk 191 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's it. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That'll do some good? I mean -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I guess what they have in 4 their mind is that they'll drive up to the house that's on 5 fire and squirt their water on it, but then they would think 6 that the -- the troops would be arriving, and -- 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It may work that way. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- finish it up. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Hopefully, it does. And 10 Commissioner Baldwin's not exaggerating -- probably 11 exaggerating a little bit when he says they can squirt for a 12 minute. Maybe for two minutes. I don't know, but they can't 13 squirt for very long. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They can put out -- those 15 trucks can put out 1,000 gallons per minute. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And they carry -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And I think they only carry 18 about 500 on the big ones. I mean, it's an attack thing. 19 They drive up there and start squirting water while the 20 engineer's over here hooking up the hydrant to get water into 21 the system through the pumps. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- into the Kerrville South 23 area, who's the secondary responder? Does it come out of the 24 volunteer fire departments? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Turtle Creek is the primary 7-31-06 bwk 192 1 coverage. Turtle Creek. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The city is secondary. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: City is secondary. Turtle 4 Creek is the primary. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Kerrville South? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's news to me. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Turtle Creek is -- 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's in their primary 10 area. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, City's going to run -- 12 roll to it because of the contract. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I mean, I guess the -- if 14 the City says no, they don't want to do it for 125, it's 15 either -- as they frequently do in these negotiations, say 369 16 or forget it. Is the answer, "Forget it"? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm almost there. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I am there, 'cause I 19 don't see that their service -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 369 -- yeah, I'm probably 21 there. You're talking about the Judge's house. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah, I'm there. And I'd 23 like to make a deal with Turtle Creek and/or somebody else to 24 fill in the gaps. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, I'd like -- 7-31-06 bwk 193 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Give them more money. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd like to take 300 of that 3 369 and begin to process the setting up, recreating Kerrville 4 South. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes, sir. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And put it with -- you know, on 7 Center Point's -- on -- in the interim, ask Turtle Creek to 8 step up. Now, Turtle Creek has a little bit of an issue -- 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I liked your idea the other 10 day about maybe some of the existing companies could lend them 11 some equipment until we can get it established. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: For sure, the existing 13 companies will say, "Oh, what about liability, and what 14 about..." But I think if they're willing, it can be done. 15 And then the other alternative would be a satellite of Turtle 16 Creek. Say, let's get a building and get a couple of pieces 17 of equipment over there, and it'll be Turtle Creek Fire 18 Department. Put your satellite office. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Better, though, to have 20 Kerrville South. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If you're building 22 somewhere, might as well just recreate Kerrville South. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Might be a transition idea. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I kind of like Baldwin 25 Memorial, but... 7-31-06 bwk 194 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What about the -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Have to kill you to get there. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What about the north area? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Huh? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: North area. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Does Tierra Linda serve 7 that? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Where is Tierra Linda? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: City of Kerrville. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Just off Harper Road, just on the 12 other side of the Gillespie County line. All that stuff in 13 Kamira, Northwest Hills. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What does Tierra Linda do 15 for Kerr County? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: They respond to Northwest Hills. 17 They'll respond to Kamira. They'll respond out there at James 18 Avery. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's way across there. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And you can't connect them 21 easily. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, you can't get across is the 23 problem. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So -- and there is people that 25 access off Highway 16, basically. 7-31-06 bwk 195 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If you had a fire out on 2 7-Mile Hill and the tones were set off, it's just a matter of 3 -- Ingram probably would beat everybody there. Everybody 4 would go if it's a structure fire, or any -- maybe any kind of 5 fire. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: A lot of Comfort -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ingram would probably be the 8 first ones. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Comfort's a long ways away, but 10 a lot of -- if they're going to Cypress Creek area, I think 11 Comfort would respond. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Probably. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. You have the -- and 14 Center Point, probably, as well. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think most of those guys 17 head that way. And then, whoever gets there first says, "No, 18 we don't need -- call them back; we don't need you. Go on 19 back to the station" kind of thing. But I think they head 20 that way when they hear those little tones. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, how about if, as a thing 22 right now, go to Ingram and Center Point and Turtle Creek and 23 say, you know, this is in addition to -- we're trying to get 24 Kerrville South started. Say, "We'll increase your funding by 25 20,000 a year if you'll expand your area into that north 7-31-06 bwk 196 1 area." Go to Ingram, which they -- I mean, they are 2 basically -- you tell me they're already doing it. Really, to 3 give them more money for them doing something that they're 4 already doing. Maybe Comfort, too. I don't know if 5 Comfort -- the distance starts to be a problem, but it's 6 interstate all the way from Comfort, too. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You said Ingram, Center 8 Point, and who? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Turtle Creek and possibly 10 Comfort, if they will pick up in Kerrville Fire Department's 11 area, and then just not have a contract with -- I mean, I 12 would rather give Kerrville -- go to zero, and give them -- 13 each of them 25,000, then give 50,000 seed money to get 14 Kerrville South going. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That would be smart. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd go along with that. I 17 think the fire company would go along with that. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, they're kind of already 19 doing it. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Structure fire, you're going to lose 21 the structure anyway. I mean, the one right out here before 22 you get to the top of the hill on 16, just -- what, 3 miles 23 north of town, here two years ago, and that's definitely 24 within the Kerrville Fire Department response area. There was 25 a swimming pool there, too; I mean, right there. They saved 7-31-06 bwk 197 1 the slab. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Burnt to the ground. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Who handles -- is Whiskey 4 Canyon now in -- has that been annexed by the City? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't think so. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All of the -- the other part of 7 that property, though, has been annexed, but Whiskey Canyon 8 hasn't been. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The reason I ask is because, 10 you know, there was an annexation out there. And when -- when 11 Stephen Fine was mayor and they carved out his building and 12 went all around it -- they did. So, my point is that they 13 responded to Whiskey Canyon, probably. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think -- I think where 15 all the residents -- well, the part they annexed was where the 16 conference center was all going to go and all that stuff, and 17 there's nothing built on that area. All the residences -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They didn't go back into the 19 homes? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: No. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Well, that's what I'm 22 asking. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: I think it's just the golf course and 24 commercial development area there adjacent to I-10. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just think to tell the City, 7-31-06 bwk 198 1 basically, I mean, we -- we hope that you'll, under mutual aid 2 obligations, respond close to the city as the volunteer fire 3 departments do into the city if they need, you know, for big 4 fires, you know. And I'd be willing to pay them a little bit 5 for that, but not going to pay them a whole lot. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, your idea is, we offer 7 how much extra to -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Say, 25,000. I mean, a little 9 bit -- I mean, it's kind of -- 25,000 to Ingram and to Center 10 Point, primarily, for -- and Turtle Creek, for picking up -- 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They'd have sugarplums 12 dancing in their eyes. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- for picking up those areas. 14 And then -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Talking about apiece? 16 (Commissioner Letz nodded.) 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It could work. You know, 18 Center Point already comes in Shady Grove, so doing Creekwood 19 and coming further in this way is not that much difference for 20 them. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The reason I said 25 is, I 22 thought about going to zero with the City. I just don't see 23 we're getting any value from the City. I mean, I think we're 24 -- we're going to get better firefighting service with 25 volunteers in those areas than we are from the City. And if 7-31-06 bwk 199 1 the City wants us to give them $50,000, something like that, 2 for a -- you know, some kind of a mutual aid, then we're back 3 at 125,000 total. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Probably should get the 5 County Attorney's opinion on this mutual aid question. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I've got the Fire Chief's 8 opinion, but probably be better to have a County Attorney 9 opinion. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think it's part of the 11 emergency preparedness program. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What is the first number and 13 then the second number? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He's saying here that -- oh, 15 the first number is last year. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So they're saying last year, 18 they did four structure fires. This year they did four 19 structures fires. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: 25 apiece might be a little 21 steep. I don't know. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maybe 15. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Maybe double it. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 10. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: 10, I think. 7-31-06 bwk 200 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Maybe double it. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, it's just -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Because they already do it. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure, 10,000, 12,000 additional, 6 maybe increasing them to 25. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it's got to be in 8 conjunction with a reduction in the City of Kerrville's, 9 which -- I mean -- 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, they're saying here they 12 responded in Kerrville South -- last year, they had four 13 structure fires, 54 other fires, 29 grass fires, and then 14 medical, First Responders, 126. Well, I don't -- are they 15 sending fire trucks for that? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know. You mean the 17 medical part of it? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We've got an EMS contract, which 19 is a separate deal. They don't need to be throwing those 20 numbers in. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I can tell you they send a 23 fire truck to west Kerr County along with the ambulance. 24 They're pretty -- 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What would "other fires" be 7-31-06 bwk 201 1 by their definition? Would that be things like responding to 2 something that happened on the interstate? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. I would suspect car 4 wrecks. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Car burning. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or even -- 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Spills. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And car wrecks, for that matter. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The rationale for sending a 10 fire truck is that the EMS people may need help lifting a big 11 person or something like that. They had a pretty bad one in 12 front of the Dam Store last week, and there was the fire 13 truck. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: City of Kerrville? 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah, four or five firemen 16 standing around, plus two ambulances and their crew. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: City of Kerrville? 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Mm-hmm. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If you read -- 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm with you, Jon. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- read the Fire Chief's 22 last paragraph of his letter, you may be doing him a favor. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: On EMS, I'm still at 24 user-pay. Raise the fees to the level that -- to pay the 25 costs. On Rabies and Animal Control, I think the only real 7-31-06 bwk 202 1 issue there is whether or not we want to get back into the 2 dead animal pickup business, and we do not. It's -- one of 3 our biggest problems with that is that we use these vehicles 4 for live animals, and if we pick up a dead one, we have to 5 assume it's diseased, and then we have to decontaminate the 6 truck. It's just -- it's a big -- uses a lot of our time and 7 effort. And TexDOT's in the business. They'll pick up on 8 their roads. Road and Bridge is in the business; they pick up 9 in the county. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They pick up? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Squirrels. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Squirrels and cattle. And 13 Ingram's in the business, so I -- you know, if Kerrville 14 doesn't want to do it, they might want to contract with Road 15 and Bridge or Ingram to do it. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where is that budget? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I was just looking for it. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I can't find it. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: EMS? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Animal Control. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Animal Control will be fine, 22 or EMS, either one. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Animal Control is under 21, and so is 24 Emergency Services. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 21. 7-31-06 bwk 203 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No wonder I couldn't find 3 it. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Hey, I want to read you 5 something here. I've been staying -- keeping a pretty close 6 watch on San Antonio's efforts to get to a no-kill facility. 7 And even their candidates for the new high-paid job talk about 8 what an ambitious goal that is and how exciting it is to get 9 to that no-kill point. It's like all other government 10 bureaucracies; you got to know their definitions. Here's the 11 definition: "To not destroy healthy, adoptable dogs and cats 12 simply because there's no room in the shelter." My 13 guesstimation is they'll continue to kill about 100,000 14 animals a year that they deem to be unadoptable. So, it's a 15 misnomer. And as I studied this, I was thinking, we got to 16 learn from them and see how we can improve based on all their 17 research and everything. I don't think we'd learn anything 18 from them. Our adoption rates are increasing. Our euthanasia 19 rates are going down. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're a no-kill facility by 21 their definition. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We are, by their 23 definition. By definition, if you can't adopt a pet, it's not 24 adoptable. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, we're a no-kill facility by 7-31-06 bwk 204 1 definition. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, I'll bet our 3 performance today is better than theirs will be when they 4 reach their no-kill point. That's just an aside. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: On EMS, where'd that 260 6 come from, Judge? I didn't think they went that high. They 7 asked for a 60,000 increase? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm not sure where I came up with 9 that. Do you want an honest answer? There it is. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Isn't it 230? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 230-something. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's not 260; it's something 15 less than that. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 236 sticks in my mind. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you have that, Tommy? I 18 don't either. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's in the first letter 20 from the City Manager. I don't know if I have it or not. 21 (Discussion off the record.) 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And the First Responder, 23 we've got something on it? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's up. 7-31-06 bwk 205 1 JUDGE TINLEY: 10,397. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: EMS, County portion is 3 231,883. $232,000. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 232. First Responders went 5 up. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: 10,4. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: But no -- no, that's -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or is that combined? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: No, that's going to be the equipment. 11 Yeah, that's 10,4. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the coordinator? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm not sure I've been furnished with 14 anything on that. That's just the expenses bill. Doesn't 15 have anything to do with the coordinator. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is this the whole thing? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm, that's all we got. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's 10,398. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: You'll note in last year's budget, we 20 didn't have anything for the coordinator. That got combined 21 with something. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: EMS contract. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, sure did. That's right. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, EMS contract, I agree 25 with Number 4 about the user-pay. I just don't see that 7-31-06 bwk 206 1 happening, so to me, that's laid down. And I'd just -- I hate 2 to admit that we need to pay this thing, but, you know, I can 3 -- seems like to me we need to say something like, "Okay, 4 we're going to pay the 232, but this is the end of it for a 5 number of years," or something. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- well, what I'd like 7 to see us do is a combination of that and user-pay, is that -- 8 say we'll go along with that, but we want to send out -- we 9 plan to send out a bill to all your county people, so we want 10 you to furnish that information, and we're going to bill them 11 for that run at an additional amount, because you all have 12 told us that you will not increase because of Medicare. And I 13 think we bill it, and if we collect $20,000 or $10,000, that's 14 $10,000 better off than we are right now. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Who would do the 16 collection? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Collections Department. Turn it 18 over to them. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Who would -- who would 20 initiate the invoice for services and so forth? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the City would have to 22 give us a list of the -- I mean, transmit it to us. I can't 23 -- I mean, they have to; they're sending out a bill. I don't 24 understand why we couldn't do that. And -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why wouldn't they do it last 7-31-06 bwk 207 1 year when we asked them that? And why wouldn't they -- what 2 was their reason? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Because that's not the way they 4 do business. It's not going to do any good, because all they 5 can re -- all they can charge for Medicare is getting 6 reimbursed, so is doesn't do any good to bill out above that. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's untrue. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Even though some people have 9 private insurance and will pay; a lot of people, in my 10 opinion. So, I think you request -- I don't think you need to 11 go outrageous, but I think -- they also don't send a bill if 12 there's no transport, and I think you should. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: To me, that's ridiculous. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm nearly eligible for 15 Medicare; it's a big relief. And I go over to see Dr. Llanos, 16 and he won't accept Medicare -- payments from Medicare; it's 17 not worth messing with. You know, I can pay the bill, submit 18 the claim to Medicare for more than they'll pay, and they pay 19 me. And so the -- the red herring that we can't charge more 20 than Medicare allows is not true. Now, it may be true, and I 21 think it probably is, that if we take a -- if they take a -- I 22 can't think of the term -- a release where -- 23 MR. TOMLINSON: A consignment. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: A consignment. Then 25 you're -- you've agreed in advance you won't charge more than 7-31-06 bwk 208 1 Medicare will pay. But just -- we should do on EMS just what 2 Dr. Llanos does. Instead of charging me $400, charge me $800. 3 I can get my $400 back from Medicare, and my good friends in 4 the county will pay the other 400. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not sure -- I don't think we 6 say that we're going to do it. I think we reserve the 7 prerogative to bill -- look at the billing and adjust it 8 accordingly if we feel it's legal and proper. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How are we going to find out 10 if that's -- not necessarily if that's true, but -- 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Right. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- but that this can be done 13 in this situation? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If you can -- I guess, I mean, 15 the issue was that once -- Tommy probably knows the answer. 16 If you -- you accept the payment from Medicare, you say you're 17 paying it all. 18 MR. TOMLINSON: Right. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So -- but they don't bill, like, 20 dry runs at all. I think we bill those automatically. I 21 mean, if you go -- if an ambulance goes to that residence, 22 that residence is getting a bill. And you may not collect all 23 of them, and you may have a real hard time, you know, 24 collecting. But -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: May get some. 7-31-06 bwk 209 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- you may get some. You bill 2 them $250, something like that, you know. And I think that 3 the -- on the Medicare issue, if you, you know, accept 4 payment, but a lot of them may use their own insurance. I 5 don't know how -- I mean, I don't know how people -- I don't 6 have -- I'm not on Medicare, so I don't know how all that 7 works, but it's a -- can't they send to have a form that -- 8 well -- 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If they have their own 10 insurance and they also have Medicare, Medicare becomes 11 secondary. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Right. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: In which case they could pay, 14 then. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They could -- 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, their insurance would 18 pay whatever they, by their plan, agreed to pay. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 80 percent or whatever. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And then Medicare becomes 21 the secondary -- 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's right. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- to that. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And pay the other 20 percent. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or some portion of it, yeah. 7-31-06 bwk 210 1 MR. TOMLINSON: Has the City filed claims on private 2 insurance? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What, Tommy? 4 MR. TOMLINSON: Does the City file a claim on 5 personal insurance or for EMS? 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think they don't. I 7 think they leave it up to the recipient of the services to 8 file the claim with his insurance company. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So they just give a bill to the 10 person. 11 MR. TOMLINSON: That's one -- I see that as a 12 problem, because I know in -- you know, Bandera County has run 13 EMS forever, and they have a person that they pay on a 14 commission basis to handle all their billings. And that -- 15 that person submits billings to every person that receives a 16 service from Bandera County. And if it's private insurance, 17 that person sends a claim to that person's insurance, just 18 like -- just like a doctor's office. They do the same -- they 19 do the same for Medicare and Medicaid. And up until -- up 20 until about a year ago, their EMS department has -- has paid 21 for itself. That guy is -- that person probably collects 22 60 percent of their claims, and they do charge for 23 non-transports. If there's a non-transport, they get charged 24 just like everybody else does. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is this collector guy 7-31-06 bwk 211 1 privatized? I mean, is he out of San Antonio or someplace? 2 MR. TOMLINSON: Actually, he's out of -- I think out 3 of Bulverde. His office is in Bulverde. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think I'd like to talk to 5 the City about letting us -- if they can just give us the raw 6 information and let us do the billing portion of it, I mean, I 7 think we'd come out ahead. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That brings up another 9 question. How much information can they give us? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can or will? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Can legally give up. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Broken arm or busted spleen. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good question. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I heard Kinky Friedman 17 say the other day on Fox News that, "I'm too young for 18 Medicare and too old for women care." 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He's in between the devil 20 and a hard spot, isn't he? 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I remember now that they do 22 not -- Kerrville does not send bills to private insurance. I 23 remember the comment that, "We think a lot of people collect 24 from their insurance company and then don't pay us." 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Wouldn't be surprised. 7-31-06 bwk 212 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, anyway, I think that the -- 2 that's -- EMS service, I certainly don't want to fight that 3 battle, but on the billing side of it, I would like to explore 4 that a little bit more. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One other quick item before 6 we call it a day. I know Kathy's getting tired. Real quick 7 item. Go to Parks under -- under Tab 25. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Want to transfer all that to 9 the airport? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. This is where the 11 funding projects are. There's 25 in there this year. I 12 didn't put anything in there this year for the restroom 13 facility we've been talking about for a long time, but that 25 14 is -- is intended to fund the crossing of Third Creek to link 15 our two pieces of property. Leonard's done a lot of work out 16 there, but he's run into a problem with finding a concrete 17 person, 'cause everybody's working more than they can handle, 18 and so I think we need to be carried over, and it probably 19 needs to be increased by about $10,000 or $15,000 to get that 20 job done. And, secondly, we need a -- we need a ramp up from 21 the park floor to Riverside Drive, because people parking in 22 there use either River Star or, in the case of Commissioner 23 Baldwin's event coming up in March, there's going to be a 24 bunch of cars parked there and we need the ability for people 25 to get up on a ramp up to the top on Riverside Drive. So, I'd 7-31-06 bwk 213 1 like to fund that. I think Leonard could probably do most of 2 that work, at least the grading, and we'd be talking about -- 3 not stairs, 'cause if we build stairs, then you got to do a 4 ramp as well, so just build a ramp. It can be ties and 5 gravel, you know. It could be whatever. It could go the 6 least expensive way to do it, but kind of a ramp that -- that 7 takes the grade out and gets us from the park floor to 8 Riverside Drive. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with that. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, I'd really like the 25 11 to get carried over, and probably add another 25 in there to 12 take care of the extra -- for whatever extra Leonard's going 13 to encounter crossing Town Creek -- Third Creek and building a 14 ramp. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On the ramp, I would recommend 16 not -- I would recommend using concrete. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Maybe so. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or possibly -- I mean, gravel 19 and stuff is just going to be a maintenance issue every time 20 it rains. Either concrete, and the grade has to be -- I don't 21 know if it's -- one and a half percent, something like that. 22 It's very -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We would have to make it -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Going to be a long ramp. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. Well, you have to 7-31-06 bwk 214 1 make it curve around to get up, cut the grade down. You know 2 more -- you know better than I do what the cost of concrete is 3 these days. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have no -- I mean, I have no 5 idea what that is. I think probably something like the 6 sidewalks. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Should we leave that open? 8 And I'll try to flesh it out with Leonard. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably $4 a square foot, 10 something like that, but I have no idea how much. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We'll come back to it. I'll 12 leave it open. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 100 feet by 5 feet. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: The City might be able to give you 16 some leads on restrooms for parks. They've recently done some 17 pretty extensive work on that. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, they did. I've got a 19 book that thick that I gave the Maintenance Department a long 20 time ago. We can get one hauled in a lot cheaper than they 21 talk about building. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why is it you want to add 23 10,000 on connecting the two properties? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm sorry? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: To connect the two 7-31-06 bwk 215 1 properties, why do you want to add 10,000? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Because I think the cost is 3 going to be greater than this 25. We've already -- we're 4 going to use the flat cars that came out of Hermann Sons. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where are they 6 geographically? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They're in the proximity of 8 where they're going to go across. They're in the park. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They're down there? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, Bill. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But the concrete abutment 13 work that has to go in is probably running a little more than 14 25. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think we've worn Kathy 16 out. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, guys. Is that it? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are we meeting again, or are we 19 going to decide after the city meeting? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: When is the city meeting? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Week from Wednesday. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: When can we have a -- a run 23 that gives us some kind of feeling for what our revenues are 24 and what our costs are? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: When is your heart going to be the 7-31-06 bwk 216 1 strongest? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Next Commissioners Court 3 meeting? 4 MR. TOMLINSON: I just -- I just need numbers. I'm 5 -- I need your workbook to make all the changes, and then the 6 information from the Treasurer's office on all the positions. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It would be good to have that 8 by -- in my mind, by our next Commissioners Court meeting, 9 which is the 14th. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 11 MR. TOMLINSON: I already have -- already have the 12 projections on the non-tax revenue. I already have that 13 number. I don't -- I don't have a tax number yet. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: When will we have firm 15 numbers on our income? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Should be any moment, the certified 17 tax rolls. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And the certified tax rolls, 19 and those non-tax revenues -- 20 MR. TOMLINSON: I already have that. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- are the only two? 22 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you have the certified tax roll 24 now? 25 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 7-31-06 bwk 217 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 'Cause it's due to be here any 2 moment, I think. Generally, it's right at the very tail end 3 of July. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: My -- talking about having 5 a strong heart, my really broad estimate is that we -- 6 revenues are going to increase by $700,000 or $800,000, and 7 just the stuff we've talked about so far, we -- we've 8 increased our spending by at least a million and a half 9 dollars. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, we've got some 11 reductions, too. You heard one of them this afternoon. The 12 Juvenile Detention Facility on this coming budget's 50 percent 13 of what it was in this budget year. Airport's down. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: But I've kind of cranked 15 that into it. No, I haven't -- hadn't cranked the airport. 16 Spending may be up more than a million, five. I'm just -- 17 looks to me like we got at least a $700,000 or $800,000 18 deficit in the way we stand right now. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Probably do. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We don't know what our 21 surplus is going to be over -- over where it was a year ago 22 either yet, do we? 23 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah, I have that number. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You have the number? 25 MR. TOMLINSON: Mm-hmm. 7-31-06 bwk 218 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, we meet with the City 2 Wednesday, the 9th, at 9 a.m., somewhere. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: KPUB. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: KPUB? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I believe it's KPUB. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Don't ask me. I'd wear a 7 bulletproof vest, if I were you, Commissioner. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm going to. I have 9 absolutely zero fear of this thing. I may be a lame duck too; 10 really don't give a damn at this point. What about breakfast? 11 No talk of food? Is it their turn? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: No, they -- they fed us breakfast 13 last time, if you'll recall. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Let's don't talk about 15 it, then. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No money left for 17 breakfast. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let's chip in, buy a box of 19 kolaches. What do you say? 20 MR. TOMLINSON: There is one -- there may be a 21 possibility of a tax issue between Road and Bridge and the 22 Maintenance and Operation tax. I probably talked to you about 23 this before, but in eight more years, our auto registration 24 money disappears for Road and Bridge. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The $10 fee? 7-31-06 bwk 219 1 MR. TOMLINSON: No, the big part of it. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: TexDOT got wise, and they are 4 reducing our revenues for auto registration 10 percent a year 5 for 10 years, and they're replacing it with the sales tax on 6 the auto sales in this county. We'll be okay if auto sales 7 tax equals the 10 percent. If not, then we're going to have 8 to transfer some tax rate from -- from the M & O tax over to 9 Road and Bridge. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How many more years? 11 MR. TOMLINSON: Eight more years. It's about 12 600,000. It's about $600,000. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That'll be for another court 14 to worry about. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Eight more years. The king 16 could die. I could die. 17 MR. TOMLINSON: But my point is, we lost -- we lost 18 about 30,000 in revenue, net, this year. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let's quit. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We done, Judge? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, you bearer of good news, 22 you. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, we'll be adjourned. 24 (Budget workshop adjourned at 4:33 p.m.) 25 - - - - - - - - - - 7-31-06 bwk 220 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my 5 capacity as County Clerk of the Commissioners Court 6 of Kerr County, Texas, at the time and place 7 heretofore set forth. 8 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 4th day of 9 October, 2006. 10 11 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 12 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 13 Certified Shorthand Reporter 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 7-31-06 bwk