1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Regular Session 10 Monday, August 14, 2006 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 DAVE NICHOLSON, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X August 14, 2006 2 PAGE --- Visitors' Input 5 3 --- Commissioners' Comments 6 4 1.1 Airport Fencing - Presentation of status with Airport Board on claim for fencing 9 5 1.2 Presentation by Martin Marietta Materials of 6 plans to expand mining operation in Kerr County 25 7 1.6 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on proposed plan provision changes for TCDRS 2007 8 plan year 41 9 1.14 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to authorize County Judge to write a letter to LCRA 10 regarding Rim Rock-Goat Creek project requesting them to take the shortest/least expensive route 72 11 1.7 Public Hearing concerning abandoning, vacating, 12 and discontinuing Privilege Creek Subdivision 90 13 1.11 Request for variance in requirements for an on-site septic facility for a dwelling to be 14 located at Lot 24, Wood Trails Ranch 91 15 1.3 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on Landscaping Plan for Union Church 100 16 1.4 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to adopt 17 a Statement of Support for the Guard and Reserve 104 18 1.5 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to post warning signs at Ingram Dam 110 19 1.8 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to abandon 20 vacate, and discontinue Privilege Creek Subdivision 114 21 1.9 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to open new portion of Upper Turtle Creek Road, Pct. 1 & 4 115 22 1.10 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to consider 23 alternate plat process for revising Lots 16, 17 & 18 of Riverside Park, set public hearing for same 121 24 1.12 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 25 approving Kerr County Juvenile Detention Facility Policy and Procedures manual for '06-'07 123 3 1 I N D E X (Continued) August 14, 2006 2 PAGE 1.13 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action approving 3 per diem rate for Kerr County Juvenile Detention Center, approve Judge Tinley signing off on 4 contracts for counties contracting with Kerr County for secure preadjudication detention services 127 5 1.15 Consider/discuss, appoint Lt. Rob McCutcheon to 6 Criminal Justice Advisory Committee of Alamo Area Council of Governments to represent Kerr County 129 7 1.16 Consider/discuss performing State-required OSSF 8 functions for City of Ingram, take appropriate action on resolution from City of Ingram 9 authorizing Kerr County to perform such functions 131 10 1.17 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on request from The Blue Knights to use Flat Rock 11 Lake Park the weekend of October 21, 2006 136 12 1.18 Consider and decide on process for selecting Human Resource Director and Administrative Assistant 137 13 1.19 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 14 approve Appendix for Kerr County Subdivision Rules 141 15 1.20 Consider/discuss, approve organization/functions of departments that report to Commissioners Court 16 (Executive Session) --- 17 1.21 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on the "Kerr County Management's Discussion and Analysis" 18 for 2004-2005 audit 143 19 1.22 Reports from the following Departments: Animal Control --- 20 Extension Office 148 Environmental Health 160 21 4.1 Pay Bills 173 22 4.2 Budget Amendments 179 4.3 Late Bills --- 23 4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 210 24 5.1 Reports from Commissioners/Liaison Committee Assignments 212 25 --- Adjourned 227 4 1 On Monday, August 14, 2006, at 9:00 a.m., a regular 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in the 3 Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville, 4 Texas, and the following proceedings were had in open court: 5 P R O C E E D I N G S 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. 7 Let me call to order, if I might, this regularly scheduled 8 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court scheduled for 9 this date and time, Monday, August 14, 2006, at 9 a.m. It's 10 just a bit past that time now, so let's commence. 11 Commissioner 4? 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Would you join me in a 13 prayer and the pledge to the flag, please? 14 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. At this time, if there's 16 a member of the public or the audience that wishes to be heard 17 on any item that is not a listed agenda item, you're 18 privileged to come forward at this time and tell us what's on 19 your mind. If you wish to speak on an agenda item, we would 20 ask that you fill out a participation form. I have some 21 already. These are located at the back of the room. It's not 22 essential that you do that; however, it helps me to not breeze 23 by you when we get to that agenda item. But if we get to an 24 agenda item and I want to have input as to that item, if 25 you've not filed a participation form, why, get my attention 8-14-06 5 1 in some manner and we'll see that you're recognized and have 2 the opportunity to be heard. But if possible, if you'd fill 3 out a participation form, we would appreciate it. But at this 4 point, if there's any member of the audience or the public 5 that wishes to be heard on any matter that is not a listed 6 agenda item, why, please feel free to come forward at this 7 time. 8 MR. EMERSON: Judge? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: County Attorney, Mr. Emerson. 10 MR. EMERSON: Excuse me. Judge, Court, last 11 Thursday there was a hearing in the E.B.A. lawsuit of Kerr 12 County versus E.B.A. on the insurance litigation. There were 13 several issues addressed in district court. The short answer 14 is that the trial has been continued. It was originally set 15 for September 25th. It is now set for January 22nd of '07. 16 The mediation that was scheduled for August 30th is still 17 scheduled and going to proceed as planned. E.B.A. and Union 18 Labor Life have basically turned on each other, and as a 19 result of it, the continuance was requested by the Union Labor 20 Life and granted by the Court. So... 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. Is there any other 22 member of the audience or the public that wishes to be heard 23 on any matter that is not a listed agenda item? Any member 24 that wishes to be heard? Seeing no one else moving to come 25 forward, we'll move on. Commissioner Nicholson, what do you 8-14-06 6 1 have for us this morning? 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Judge, it's hot and dry. 3 And I didn't get any calls about any fires this weekend, but I 4 wouldn't be surprised if there weren't some. So, it's time 5 for everybody to be extraordinarily careful. That's about all 6 I've got. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Baldwin? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. It's time to be 9 extremely careful with your burning. Actually, no burning 10 would be best. But I wanted to remind the Court that about 17 11 years ago, when I was the Commissioner on that end of the 12 table, this Court started putting in the budget funds to help 13 build a high water bridge; 17 or 18 years ago, I can't 14 remember. Well, Monday they're going to have the ribbon 15 cutting at 9 a.m. on the bridge, and, of course, we're all 16 invited to that. And by way of reminder, I just wanted to let 17 you know that if you didn't get it, be sure to be out there. 18 I think it's an exciting time for us all. Thank you. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Williams? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We had a joint meeting with 21 City Council the other day and members of the Court; we talked 22 about matters of mutual interest and joint projects and 23 initiatives. And I've participated in a lot of those over the 24 last eight years, but I have to say quite honestly and 25 candidly, that was probably the better -- one of the better 8-14-06 7 1 ones I've participated in down through the years. I thought 2 the general working attitude that was displayed by both 3 governing bodies was good, lended itself to looking at options 4 and initiatives that might have -- that might bear fruit for 5 us in the future. So, I just wanted to say my two cents 6 worth. I thought it was not a bad meeting. We should have 7 more like that. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. Commissioner Letz? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I wonder if Commissioner 10 Williams had the follow-up calls from the City Manager. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, I did not. I left that 12 for you. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It was a good meeting, though. 14 Commissioner Williams handed me a few minutes ago a -- the 15 front page of, I guess, the Sunday edition of the Express 16 News, "Water on the way to being liquid gold." First of a 17 four-part series, it says, of water issues in the state. 18 Which is a good introduction for a press release that I've 19 already given to Irene; I've got one here for Gerard. 20 Wearing -- as chairman of Region J, wearing that hat, we're 21 calling a meeting for all the Kerr County members this Friday 22 at 11:30 at U.G.R.A. The purpose of the meeting is to get 23 everyone -- or all the entities from Kerr County on board and 24 working in one direction on the new scope of work for Region 25 J, which is in the process of being written right now. I 8-14-06 8 1 thought it would be a good opportunity to do it real publicly 2 this time. We do it publicly always; meetings are always 3 posted, but I wanted to announce it. This will not be a 4 posted meeting, but it is -- certainly, the public is welcome. 5 And there will be another meeting on September 30th at 5 p.m. 6 for the sole purpose of putting out a draft scope of work and 7 receiving public comment on that scope of work. So, I just -- 8 the draft will be available prior to that, hopefully. I'm -- 9 we'll be meeting in Del Rio this Thursday to develop that 10 first draft, or help start developing that draft for Region J. 11 So, anyway, water is an important issue. I think, obviously, 12 the drought here is on everyone's mind, and it's going to 13 continue to be an issue, and Region J is where the long-term 14 planning gets done and all the entities work together to make 15 sure it does get done and gets on the state -- on to the 16 Legislature to get approved in the state water plan. So, 17 everyone is invited. That's it. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Like Commissioner 19 Baldwin, I'd like to invite everyone to the ribbon cutting for 20 the new high bridge just west of the main portion of downtown, 21 9 o'clock next Monday. As he said, it's been a long time 22 coming, but we look forward to having that as a means of 23 relieving traffic in the center of Kerrville, so I think that 24 would be very, very helpful. We've got a long agenda; let's 25 get on with the business at hand. The first item on the 8-14-06 9 1 agenda is -- relates to airport fencing, a presentation of the 2 status with the Airport Board on a claim for fencing. 3 Mr. Snow? 4 MR. SNOW: Good morning, Your Honor and members of 5 the Court. For the record, my name is Billy Dan Snow. 6 Physical address, 760 Johnson Drive, Kerrville. I had 7 delivered a copy for each member of the Court here last week, 8 what -- Bill said he saw my "epistle." I referred to it as a 9 running commentary. Gentlemen, approximately two years ago, 10 during part of the airport project -- and by the way, I am -- 11 also attending, my wife, Maggie Snow, is here with me today. 12 We own the property in one corner of Shady Grove Subdivision 13 that backs up to the airport on two sides. We border the -- 14 the lower -- the upper southeast corner that's right below the 15 weather station, and the entire upper east side starting in 16 behind the old E.A.A. building that runs roughly a third to 17 half of the entire east line down the airport. 18 In summer of '04, on a Sunday morning, I discovered 19 that -- due to some dogs missing, I went searching, and we 20 discovered that the entire north property line of our 8-foot 21 deer-proof fencing, about 742 linear feet, had been torn out 22 by the airport. Was pulled out, still laying out there. We 23 have photographic documentation. We had never been contacted, 24 never been asked to see if we had livestock, exotics, 25 whatever. Happened to run into Mayor Fine that afternoon in 8-14-06 10 1 Gibsons, and as calmly as I could, sort of explained the 2 situation. There was a phone call on our recorder before I 3 could get home that afternoon from the Airport Manager, Dave 4 Pearce, at which time we requested a meeting of him, the City 5 Engineer, and the City Manager -- at that time, Ron 6 Patterson -- the following morning. When confronted with it, 7 Dave finally said, well, yeah, we had the fencing contractor. 8 No explanation of why we had not been contacted. Was there 9 any concern? 10 And, by the way, that same fence overlaps at our 11 corner into the corner of Mr. Jenschke's property. His cattle 12 were allowed and turned out onto the airport, I later found 13 out through one of his sons. But, basically, they could not 14 give us a decent explanation. And this was to the point that 15 holes had already been dug to drop in the -- the new chain 16 link fencing. And I -- I will paraphrase to get on through 17 this, but we started and asked that -- you know, number one, 18 we'd been wronged. "Well, we've got to get this fence up." 19 Well, yeah. And they started talking about, "Well, we can't 20 put it on the line." And I observed -- I said, "You've 21 offset." "Well, we've got a foot overhang." I said, "We'll 22 sign the waiver," because of the 1-foot, I guess, overhang on 23 the barbed wire top. But at least through the confrontation, 24 we -- I thought that we had reached somewhat of a gentleman's 25 agreement. The City street crew was out there shortly 8-14-06 11 1 thereafter, and they actually helped clear the right-of-way. 2 There was trees that -- tree limbs that would have been in the 3 fence. 4 They were attempting to put the fence in without 5 ever regrading to where the fence would meet the ground 6 properly. They'd already cut and slacked our corner braces on 7 the other two lines, and we told them that, "Look," you know, 8 "number one, we'll sign the waiver. Put the fence back on the 9 common property line instead of offsetting it back on your 10 side." Number two, we have a bigger problem, because they had 11 already completed a stretch of fencing that paralleled our 12 line, but some 50 to 60 yards to the west, which allowed for 13 the airport security fencing and gates to be the other side of 14 the main feeder road into the airport. Well, what that then 15 caused is, we now had a bright new 10-foot shiny chain link 16 fence that were routing all the deer that got pushed down that 17 lane, which is fairly frequent, and the pressure was being put 18 on our other property line that had not been touched. 19 They got the fence on the line that they tore out up 20 within a reasonable time frame, after cleaning up the 21 right-of-way and grading it to where the fence could be built 22 properly. Our corner braces have never been resolved. But my 23 main concern was that we now had a new problem, additional 24 pressure being put on our fence because of where they had 25 placed their new fencing. I told them we didn't have to have 8-14-06 12 1 absolute new fencing, but there was other 8-foot fencing in 2 place that was to come down in the second phase. The 3 agreement that Ron and I had worked out was, you deliver to us 4 enough material, fencing posts, et cetera, and I will erect 5 the 8-foot fencing on our common line so that we can put an 6 end to the additional pressure that we now have. And that was 7 the agreement that was delivered to me. I believe a copy is 8 in there. 9 The one hangup was they wanted us to sign off ahead 10 of time releasing them of all liability, any list of claims, 11 and I balked and said, "No, when it's a done deal, we'll sign 12 off." Because we were also asking that in the event they ever 13 decided to change the fencing again, that a fence be put back 14 on our common line at their expense. They were the ones that 15 took the one out on the common line and offset it to their 16 side -- y'all's side. The airport is a joint, as I 17 understand, 50/50 ownership between city and county. 18 Management is contracted through the city. We virtually got 19 nowhere. Things stagnated. About that time, the U.D.C. vote 20 came up. Ron wasn't available to return phone calls or 21 anything. I then went through the interim manager, and 22 finally went to the Airport Board. 23 Within a month of this occurrence was when the 24 Airport Board became a full functioning board, not just an 25 advisory board, so we took our plea to them, of which 8-14-06 13 1 Dr. Davis and the board virtually decided, well, can you get 2 back together with city staff? Would you at least -- we said, 3 "Look, all we've been trying to do is be a good neighbor, work 4 this out in a reasonable resolution." But y'all offered the 5 material. It was a legal -- release was the only condition of 6 that that we balked at, that I did not feel was right. Even 7 though there's been quite a bit of documentation furnished 8 that there have been state laws broken, improper contact of a 9 neighbor with moving a fence. It was then resolved that we 10 would meet with them, and Commissioner Letz and Councilman 11 Meek even sat in on that meeting, at which time we went 12 through the whole drill again with our new City Manager. We 13 got to the end; he said, "Well, Mr. Snow, what is it you 14 really want?" And it was right there in the second paragraph 15 of the letter, of this same short -- three documentation 16 letters in here of our request. 17 And if you've read through it, you'll notice that 18 what they did -- at first, we took the position, "Look, y'all 19 want to be that way, you put up the fence. We've tried. You 20 reneged. It's your burden." We actually reconsidered and 21 came back and said, "Look, all we ask for was a new fence to 22 take care of the pressure." The number of deer -- our entire 23 acreage was fenced to keep everything out. Since then, this 24 summer, and with the drought conditions that we've had, we've 25 got so many deer in there, we are having to supplemental feed. 8-14-06 14 1 They've still ripped up ivy and plants and what-have-you. 2 We've even opened gates to get some of them -- try to get some 3 of them out. Obviously, other measures of control, I'd have 4 to go to Texas Parks and Wildlife, which I do work with in 5 other capacities. 6 But we finally get back a deal of, well -- and, 7 gentlemen, most of y'all know me. Maggie and I are both real 8 estate appraisers and consultants by trade. We have done work 9 on that airport project back when Joe Minella did the 10 acquisition on the far end. We have basically come back with 11 a deal that, even according to my cost manuals, the type of 12 fencing that they wanted costs out at $18, $19, yet they come 13 back with an offer saying if we will build 10-foot fencing to 14 their specification at a cost of $40,000, which is almost $30 15 a running foot, about 50 percent again over -- and if we'll 16 pay our $20,000, they'd pay the other $20,000, which obviously 17 meant they were obligating y'all to 10, or your 50 percent. 18 First off, I have a real concern that I've got 19 someone negotiating or attempting to negotiate with me, 20 whether that was ever presented to y'all and was that even a 21 valid offer? Can he tie y'all to that commitment? Number 22 two, we are frustrated beyond means. We have tried to work 23 this out in a reasonable manner, and we seem to keep getting 24 stonewalled, or with the attitude, "Let's cost it out or 25 pretend that it'll go away." What Maggie and I are here 8-14-06 15 1 before you today, and -- is an attempt to reach some sort of 2 indication from you, as one of the co-owners of the airport, 3 to reach some reasonable resolution on this. We do intend to 4 ask to be put on the City Council full agenda and go before 5 them. I know that there have been some time lags, but that 6 primarily is due to our work schedule and court settings, you 7 know, that have been extremely heavy on us all summer long. 8 So, there has been somewhat of a time lag here. But I will be 9 happy to answer any questions or concerns that are not covered 10 there. 11 And I apologize that we did not show up with a nice, 12 big graphic or map to help understand this, but I think most 13 of you know the area that we're talking about. We also have 14 concerns that, even here in the last two weeks, you've had 15 deer back in the airport, inside your chain link. We drive 16 out every morning, and I can tell you that not only us, but 17 our 11-year-old daughter observes how many times there are 18 deer in there, and then we get to wondering, well, what are 19 they doing to get rid of them? But during the construction 20 period, I can tell you, I documented times that those gates 21 were actually locked open, not opening and being shut as a 22 vehicle enters. So, to me, you've got a real problem here. 23 We are merely asking for a reasonable resolution to a harm 24 that we feel like we've incurred at the Airport Manager and 25 the airport's direction, that we can't seem to get off dead 8-14-06 16 1 center. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Snow, let me ask you a couple 3 questions, if I might, sir. You got two sides or two sections 4 of fencing that are involved here; is that correct? 5 MR. SNOW: Yes, sir. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Am I correct in understanding you, 7 that one of those sections was included within the perimeter 8 fencing -- the new perimeter fencing of the airport? 9 MR. SNOW: Our north property line was the 742 feet 10 that was torn out and then later was replaced, but offset a 11 foot to the airport side, not on the line, with the new 12 10-foot fencing, yes, sir. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Then it would be, I guess, 14 your west -- 15 MR. SNOW: It is our west line that now forms 16 another major part of the airport boundary that there's about 17 13 -- a little over a quarter of a mile, 1,340-something 18 linear feet of a straight run that is basically that heavy 19 wooded area up starting behind the old E.A.A. building and 20 runs on up what I believe has been classed as some of the 21 future industrial sites. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. The -- you had mentioned that 23 you had believed that there were going to be materials 24 available to accomplish this fencing. Were you referring to 25 the old 8-foot chain link that was taken down? 8-14-06 17 1 MR. SNOW: That was what Mr. Patterson and I had 2 agreed on. It's my understanding that material was let go 3 during the second phase contract and is no longer available. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you know where that material went? 5 MR. SNOW: All I know is, I was told, I think, that 6 it went to the fencing contractor as part of his bid. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, on that point, the 8 material is actually -- I was rather irritated by the 9 contractor's handling of that, or actually the Airport 10 Manager's as well, because both Mr. Snow was supposed to get 11 part of that fencing, and so was Kerr County, to help fence 12 the -- or to fence the jail. And I guess, under the -- and 13 the actual contractor told me that we would get it. Under the 14 terms of the contract, the -- that material was the property 15 of the contractor, and he chose to do something else with it. 16 He didn't give it to Mr. Snow or to the County. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Was that part of the bid process and 18 part of his submission? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: As I understand it, yes. But he 20 was responsible for taking down the fencing. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But what we don't know is 22 what really happened to the amount that was supposed to be 23 allocated for Billy. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct, or the County. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're told that they took 8-14-06 18 1 it. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We don't know, really, 4 whether or not they ever made a pitch to him to -- to -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- give it to Mr. Snow for 7 that purpose. We don't know that. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, just a couple -- I mean, 9 if I can just make a couple of comments, 'cause I've probably 10 dealt with this probably more than Commissioner Williams. 11 I've certainly dealt with it a lot, and everything Mr. Snow 12 says is accurate. The thing that's even -- that he left out 13 was -- and it's a comment; I hate to somewhat bring it up, but 14 I will, because I think it is germane to the problem Mr. Snow 15 has. Mr. Snow referred to a meeting that he had that I 16 attended along with Councilman Meek. At that meeting, the 17 City Manager told me -- he goes -- and this is all -- I'll 18 paraphrase it, but, "Quite frankly, I don't know why you're 19 even here, Commissioner Letz. This is not your business." 20 Which -- and that's -- that's more or less accurate, I think. 21 And I was shocked by the comment. And the City Manager's view 22 of this, and I don't think -- I think it's not unique to 23 Mr. Hofmann; I think Mr. Patterson and the interim and 24 Mr. Hofmann all look at this as a -- a management problem, not 25 an owner's problem. And I think the airport -- you know, and 8-14-06 19 1 I don't agree with that. I don't -- you know. And they 2 looked at it as how they interpret the contract. 3 So, that's kind of the reason that -- and I'm glad 4 Mr. Snow brought it to the Court, because then I think it 5 becomes a County problem, and Bill and I can take it back. 6 And it has never been presented -- well, it has been presented 7 by Mr. Snow to the Airport Board to help resolve, but it was 8 taken away from the Airport Board as a management issue and 9 something that the Airport Board did not have authority over 10 by the City. It was under their management contract. So, 11 it's a -- it's kind of a weird deal. And I'm really astounded 12 that it's -- that it hasn't -- I shouldn't say I'm astounded. 13 I'm surprised -- I'm disappointed that it hasn't been 14 resolved, 'cause I think Mr. Snow has not been unreasonable, 15 from what his comments are. And I guess, you know, this gives 16 the way -- I think the Airport Board is the one that should 17 try to resolve it, and if they can't, then I think Bill and I 18 will bring it back to the County. A question that I have for 19 Mr. Snow is, at one point, the offer was from Mr. Patterson 20 that -- to give you the used fencing, and that you would put 21 it up. If the airport were to supply new materials, would you 22 still put it up? 23 MR. SNOW: Basically, Commissioner Letz, that is 24 what is in our letter in there; that if we get the materials 25 -- and we've costed out the cost of normal deer-proof fencing, 8-14-06 20 1 8-foot chain link, 10-foot chain link -- that Maggie and I 2 have decided that, yes, we'll -- we'll incur some cost to see 3 that this thing is remedied. But it just -- the fact that we 4 have -- the attitude towards us is what is more than a little 5 galling. And, Your Honor, the -- the same packet again, short 6 of the last two or three letters, back before the end of the 7 year was provided to the Airport Board. I get there, I'm on 8 the agenda, but Mr. Pearce hadn't bothered to copy that and 9 put that in the packets for all the members of that board 10 until I happened to say, "This was furnished to you weeks 11 ago." We went into recess so that they could take time to go 12 get it copied, put it in front of them and insert it into the 13 packets for that meeting, and then that was when and where I 14 was sort of judiciously handed off or asked to meet with the 15 City again, rather than them wanting to deal with it. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: When was this most recent meeting 17 with the Airport Board, Mr. Snow? 18 MR. SNOW: I believe -- 19 JUDGE TINLEY: That it was necessary to copy the 20 material? 21 MR. SNOW: March -- oh, that was back in December. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Last December. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The reality is that it is -- 25 it is of interest to the County, because we are, as you -- 8-14-06 21 1 everybody knows, we are part owners. And that ownership, 2 along with the other members of the Airport Board, contract, 3 as you noted, with the City to manage the airport and to take 4 care of such matters such as the administration of grants by 5 which that fencing was acquired and the contractor was hired. 6 So, it is of interest to us, and I can assure you we'll take 7 it back. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the -- I mean, I think 9 that there are -- clearly, I think what Mr. Snow is owed is an 10 apology by the City for not advising you. And the City was 11 over the contractor. The contractor was doing the work, but 12 still the City is responsible. They are the -- the entity 13 that manages the airport, and were at that time. I think they 14 owe him an apology, and I think the City-slash-County's 15 airport needs to participate in putting up a new fence with 16 their -- with our neighbor. I mean, it's -- you know, at the 17 meeting that I was at with the City Manager, the City 18 Manager's comment was, why should we do -- why should he 19 recommend the City participate in that? Which shocked me, 20 because I thought that was just common neighbor -- I mean, a 21 neighborly thing to do. And I might also add, I know the 22 State of Texas does it on the property that they own, and 23 adjoining neighbors, they're free to split the cost of fences. 24 MR. SNOW: No different than a right-of-way taking 25 or anything else, which we're all too familiar with. But, 8-14-06 22 1 surprisingly, all other adjoining property owners all the way 2 around your north and northwest sides, it was put on the line; 3 not offset, to my knowledge. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not -- you know, and the 5 offset issue, I don't -- 6 JUDGE TINLEY: And a new fence? 7 MR. SNOW: And the new fence was put in. And part 8 of this, I have documentation from Bobby Pickens, who manages 9 the ranch immediately to that northeast side of the weather 10 station. I forget the gentleman's name up in Creekwood 11 Subdivision that has the larger acreage, but there were some 12 real issues there on trying to create drainageway where the 13 fence had to go through gaps because of the high-dollar bore 14 goats that are on that property and everything, to secure and 15 try to keep them off -- there's been several issues over this. 16 We just can't seem to get off dead center of getting anywhere. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The offset issue, I mean, I 18 guess -- unless I missed something, but I don't see that as a 19 big issue. Because, I mean, they offset it onto the airport 20 property, and that's common. If I have a neighbor -- as you 21 know on your properties, if someone goes along by themselves 22 and puts up a fence, a lot of times they offset it 6 inches or 23 something to get it so they own the fence. And I -- so I 24 don't -- to me, that's not a big issue. I do agree with you 25 that since they took down your fence, or the common fence that 8-14-06 23 1 you -- I don't know if you put it up originally or the airport 2 put it up or how it got there, but that the common fence that 3 was on the property line, if -- I think that the -- if there's 4 some reason the airport fence comes down, there should be an 5 obligation to put that fence back that was taken down without 6 your concurrence. I agree with you on that point. So, 7 anyway, I agree with, you know, Billy on most of the issue. 8 He's aware of this. We've -- we've discussed this quite a few 9 times. I'm sorry that we haven't been able to resolve it up 10 till now, but this, I think, does give us a vehicle to get it 11 back at the Airport Board, and in which case I think it is no 12 longer a management issue, and that's what needs to happen. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'd like to reinforce that, 14 if I might. As joint owners of the airport, we delegate to 15 the Airport Board, in my view, the authority to -- to manage 16 the airport, and the Airport Manager or anybody else involved 17 administratively are hired hands. The Airport Board has the 18 authority to resolve these kind of issues. And I think I 19 agree that Mr. Snow is being treated pretty shabbily, and we 20 ought to make it right. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And his treatment -- 22 resolution to his treatment has just begun. It sounds like to 23 me that you're going to go to the City and going to go to the 24 Airport Board and going to come back here, you know, typical 25 government nonsense. 8-14-06 24 1 MR. SNOW: We've only been two years so far. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, you got a couple more 3 years left on this thing. But I -- I think that if -- you 4 know, if -- I apologize to you on behalf of this Commissioners 5 Court and the County, that this has happened to you. If the 6 -- if the government in any way has damaged this man's 7 property, we need to fix it, and immediately. And if the 8 Airport Manager doesn't agree with that, maybe he needs to 9 seek employment elsewhere. It's simple as that. We just need 10 to get 'er done. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I want -- 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: One more thing, 13 Commissioner. If you're going to give a $40,000 contract for 14 that fence, I want it. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That contract was more than 17 $40,000. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, he means for the piece along 19 Mr. Snow's property. 20 MR. SNOW: That's just for that 1,340 feet. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Emerson, would you attempt to 23 obtain true copies of the bids and the award of the contract 24 that were made to the contractor that did the fencing out 25 there? 8-14-06 25 1 MR. EMERSON: Yes, sir. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: And any follow-up documentation, any 3 amendments, modifications that were made to that -- to that 4 bid and subsequent award and contract? 5 MR. EMERSON: Be happy to. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I'd appreciate that. 7 MR. SNOW: And I'd appreciate that, Your Honor, 8 'cause that was actually one of the final requests, was these 9 figures appeared to be so far out of line that, obviously, the 10 best documentation was the contractual bid amounts that both 11 entities were working off of with the contractor that we would 12 like available for review. And with that, gentlemen, I'll 13 await a letter or some response from y'all. Thank you for 14 your time. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How about another invitation 17 to an Airport Board meeting? 18 MR. SNOW: I try and make all of them I can, Bill, 19 because there's other projects coming on that I'll probably be 20 involved with. Thank y'all. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Let's move to the next 22 item, if we might. It was a timed item for 9:15; obviously, 23 we're a little behind that now. A presentation by Martin 24 Marietta Materials of plans to expand mining operations in 25 Kerr County that requires amending Kerr County Floodplain 8-14-06 26 1 Permit Number F05-022. Commissioner Williams, I think you 2 were the initiating requester on this item. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir, Judge. Thank you. 4 In March of 2006, Martin Marietta sent a letter to Leonard 5 Odom, Floodplain Administrator, outlining their plans to 6 acquire some additional property and to mine that property to 7 the east in the eastern part of the county, in the general 8 vicinity of the airport. Subsequent to that letter, I met 9 with Martin Marietta, along with Leonard, and we -- we learned 10 of what they wanted to do and looked at their maps and talked 11 to them about their plans and examined the floodplain, and so 12 forth and so on. At that time, I suggested it might be 13 appropriate, given the level of concern that's been evidenced 14 in the county -- in the eastern part of the county about 15 mining, that it might not be a bad idea if the folks from 16 Martin Marietta came before the Court and showed us exactly 17 what their plan entailed and what they planned to do. I would 18 hasten to say that -- and they accepted that invitation to do 19 that, and they are here today, and I'll let Mr. Garcia, in 20 just a second here, introduce all the folks he brought with 21 him. I would hasten to tell you that the application for 22 amending their floodplain permit is not before the Court this 23 morning. Mr. Odom is dealing with that, and any issues that 24 might be forthcoming that have not been addressed, if they are 25 not addressed, he will bring back to the Court. So, we're not 8-14-06 27 1 here this morning to listen to or to take action on their 2 proposal to amend the floodplain permit, but it is important 3 that we know what they're planning to do. And in that 4 context, Mr. Sandy Garcia is the manager from Martin Marietta, 5 and you're out of San Antonio, are you not, sir? Sandy? 6 MR. GARCIA: Yes, sir. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And you brought a whole 8 covey of folks with you this morning. 9 MR. GARCIA: I brought a couple people. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Would you be so good as to introduce 11 those people? 12 MR. GARCIA: Yes, sir. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mr. Garcia, let me ask one 14 question before you get started. 15 MR. GARCIA: Sure. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just want to know, is the 17 floodplain issue the only issue that this Court has to deal 18 with that we have any authority over? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're not going to talk about 21 them mining their private property or anything? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's the floodplain issue, 24 and that only? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's correct. 8-14-06 28 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right. Thank you. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're not here to deal with 3 or even talk about whether or not they have the legal 4 authority to mine their property, because we all know they do. 5 Mr. Garcia, will you introduce your group, please. 6 MR. GARCIA: Yes, sir. Thank you. I'll start 7 with -- my name is Sandy Garcia. I'm the -- excuse my voice; 8 I lost my voice yesterday. I'm going to try to get through 9 this. I'm the manager of Sand and Gravel operations for the 10 southern region. And with me -- would you introduce yourself, 11 please. 12 MR. MONTEMAYOR: Good morning. My name is Alvaro 13 Montemayor, and I'm the plant manager for the Sand and Gravel 14 group. 15 MR. GARCIA: Introduce yourself. 16 MR. BHATNAGAR: Good morning. I'm L.B. I'm the 17 Division Environmental and Natural Resources Manager for 18 Martin Marietta. I'm responsible for environmental/ 19 floodplain-related issues for our entire division, which is 20 all our locations in Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, and northern 21 Louisiana. 22 MR. GARCIA: And with that, just moving on, 23 Commissioner Williams asked us to make a presentation, an 24 overview of what we're planning to do with the site, the new 25 site we're going to open up in September, and we're just going 8-14-06 29 1 to go through that presentation for you, and at the end, if 2 you have any questions, I'll be glad to answer anything you've 3 got for us. Al, would you go -- I'll stand over here. 4 Typically, I'd stand closer to the screen, but there's not 5 enough room, so I'll just go through it from here. Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let's turn the lights down a 7 little bit. There we go. 8 MR. GARCIA: I guess I could stand back here so I 9 could be out of your way. Might look a little better for you. 10 We're going to go to the overview now. It's the -- we're 11 going to show you the property boundaries, the mining plan, 12 the berm layout, and the buffer zone. And we'll go -- go 13 ahead and go to the first one, Al. The property boundaries, 14 and we'll show you on a map in a minute, but it's -- the 15 boundary on the west is the Drymala property. South is -- and 16 it's south of Highway 27 and north of River Road, and it's 17 approximately 80 acres that we're going to be mining. Go 18 ahead. The blue line is -- is outlining the property itself. 19 The property boundaries are in blue. You can see to the north 20 Highway 27, to the south River Road, and Drymala property over 21 to the east, and our property, the property we're currently 22 mining, to the east of Drymala. I think reference there is 23 the -- the entrance to the airport. Someone was just speaking 24 about that. There's the entrance to the airport right there, 25 across 27 from us. 8-14-06 30 1 Go ahead, Al. Our mining plan -- excuse me. We 2 plan on starting our mining in the first -- at the first week 3 of September, starting at the center and the east end of the 4 property. And the travel path from -- and we'll show you that 5 on our map. The travel path from the property to our current 6 mining operation will be on the north end of the Drymala 7 property, and across Sutherland Road. Go ahead, Al. That's 8 the area in red we're planning on mining. And the arrows -- 9 the blue arrows indicate where we will start center and east, 10 and then move on to the west. And then the proposed travel 11 path, which is the north end of the Drymala property and 12 across Sutherland Road. 13 Go ahead, Al. I wanted to give you an idea of our 14 berm layout, buffer zone. The south end buffer, it will be 15 about 150 feet from the edge of River Road. The east buffer, 16 50 feet from the creek, which we'll show you in a second. And 17 the west buffer will be 75 feet from the property line. And 18 the north buffer, it's kind of a triangle in that area, so 19 we're going to start at 200 feet, and it will move all the way 20 to 400 feet. We'll show you that in a second. And the berms 21 will be built as per IMSA safety standards. Go ahead, Al. 22 The area in the -- I don't know what color that is, but 23 whatever color that is, that's kind of the outline of the 24 berm, or the berm area. As you'll note, to the north we have 25 a kind of a triangle, and that -- that kind of gives us your 8-14-06 31 1 200 feet over to the east and northeast corner, and then 400 2 feet to the -- to the other end, to the west corner. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can you explain "buffer zone"? 4 MR. GARCIA: Actually, just -- we just put berms up, 5 and we cannot go beyond those -- those buffers to the out -- 6 outside perimeter of the property. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How tall are the berms? 8 MR. GARCIA: Al, have you got an idea -- have you 9 got an idea what we're going to build yet, per IMSA standard? 10 MR. BHATNAGAR: Per IMSA standard, these berms have 11 to be at least half of the tire height of the biggest vehicle 12 that's going to be traveling around these berms, pretty much 13 for safety reasons. And these berms -- the buffer zone that 14 you see there is about 50 feet, and these berms are typically 15 three-to-one berms. Depending on the kind of vehicle it is 16 and the material that we are putting in the berm, this thing 17 could be as high as 10 feet to maybe 15 feet or higher. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, thank you. 19 MR. GARCIA: Go ahead, Al. Here we're just simply 20 showing the creek that exists on the property. That's on the 21 east -- on the east end of the property. There's two little 22 tributaries there that feed that from 27. Go ahead, Al. And 23 that's all I had. Very brief, just kind of a review of what 24 we're planning on doing. If you have any questions? 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Is the entire production 8-14-06 32 1 area in the floodplain? 2 MR. GARCIA: No, sir. No, sir. In fact, can you 3 address that, please? 4 MR. BHATNAGAR: There's a smaller eastern portion of 5 the property. There -- there used to be an old ephemeral 6 wash, just a channel where the wash used to -- can I come up? 7 MR. GARCIA: Sure. 8 MR. BHATNAGAR: The drainage from here used to come 9 around and come out this way. There is a pipe underneath the 10 River Road, and the water still leaves the property up here. 11 This is pretty much the backwaters that makes the floodplain 12 up there. For years past, the drainage that used to meander 13 towards the eastern property, it has been relocated into a -- 14 into a drainage ditch along the eastern part of the property. 15 So, this berm that you see here, that accounts for that ditch 16 -- drainage ditch that's already existing and carrying water, 17 and from the edge of that drainage ditch, this buffer is 18 50 feet. So -- so, the old floodplain maps that we have, they 19 still go back to the older meandering channels, even though, 20 in reality, for years the drainage channel has been relocated 21 right along the property boundary. So -- and so that's pretty 22 much the area that's part of the floodplain. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Will that eastern berm 24 cause a rise during a flood, a rise in the level of the 25 Guadalupe River? 8-14-06 33 1 MR. BHATNAGAR: No. The -- the drainage channel 2 that's already existing up there, it is sized, and we have 3 gone through the calculations and we are working with Mr. Odom 4 with those. That channel has sufficient size and capacity to 5 carry the flood waters and also the backwaters, sir. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: The floodplain area that will be 7 under consideration, if I understand, then, correctly, is on 8 the -- towards the eastern edge of that property that's 9 outlined there; is that correct? 10 MR. BHATNAGER: That is correct, sir. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: It's not over on the western edge? 12 MR. BHATNAGER: No, sir. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Just along the eastern edge? 14 MR. BHATNAGAR: Yes, sir. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question. Does the floodplain 17 on the southern portion -- does the floodplain reach on the 18 property, or does it stay on the other side of River Road? 19 MR. BHATNAGAR: It does reach on the property. 20 That's why you see the buffer that's here. That's larger than 21 all the other buffers. This 150-feet buffer, that accounts 22 for all the floodplain, and more, because the -- the 23 floodplain is a little bit irregular. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 25 MR. BHATNAGER: So, when we met with the 8-14-06 34 1 Commissioner and Mr. Odom, we said we'll keep the buffer where 2 it's straight and easy to see; it will be marked on the ground 3 so there is no encroachment on the buffer zone on the 4 floodplain. So, we'll stay out of it completely, sir. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: So, the floodplain area that will be 7 under consideration will be the east side, and also the south 8 side? 9 MR. BHATNAGER: Yeah, just very small. The small 10 portion on the south side. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Quick question for Len. Is 13 that -- the drainage on the east side, that's the ditch that I 14 believe Mr. Shelton put in that there was an issue about, but 15 that issue has been resolved? 16 MR. ODOM: Well, that issue was -- Mr. Shelton put 17 that in. U.G.R.A. was involved in that, and -- and Frank. 18 But as far as I -- he's got the calculations showing that. 19 And that's what I need to know, because it doesn't go through 20 that fill any more, like it -- FEMA did that. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 22 MR. ODOM: So, I feel comfortable, if he puts his 23 seal on this thing, and we've done the -- done the 24 calculations that that floodplain is moved out of the middle 25 of the field. That's the reason Mr. Shelton did that, was to 8-14-06 35 1 get it out of there, and it flooded and it moved it back. And 2 that issue was something that -- Bobby Shelton died many years 3 ago, and I -- I don't -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 5 MR. ODOM: I wasn't involved in it. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I wanted to make sure I was 7 thinking of the right spot on the right -- 8 MR. ODOM: You are. It is -- that is the right 9 spot. It was realigned along the area, and by his 10 calculations, that's an un -- that's an unstudied area, an AE 11 area. The AE is where -- is down below, and that's where he 12 was talking about, that 150 foot went back in a certain area, 13 not the whole area. But what we're doing is taking that AE 14 area and staying completely out of it. The berm -- the total 15 of slope and that berm will be 150 foot and go back, and then 16 the other side will be 75 foot, a buffer from that property 17 line right there. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, thank you. 19 MR. ODOM: Which is most of where he's talking 20 about. Everything above 150 and 50 foot back the other side 21 is "X", is a 500-year frequency. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. All right. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Leave that up there, if we could. 24 Mr. Happy, I believe you wish to be heard on this matter? 25 MR. HAPPY: Yes, sir. 8-14-06 36 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Give your name and address for the 2 reporter. 3 MR. HAPPY: Yes. My name is Nelson Happy, and I 4 actually live -- this property -- our property adjoins this 5 proposed site. We live in Kerr County in Center Point. 6 Martin Marietta has never contacted us or said a word about 7 this project to us. I'll just point out, our house is here, 8 and this is our land. My question to Martin Marietta is, 9 first of all, have they taken into account that considerable 10 changes have taken place already in the flow of water in this 11 area? When the airport removed all of the vegetation and 12 trees on Highway 27 to build the new fence, there was an 13 enormous change in the water that has come on these 14 properties. And it was -- as I heard Mr. Snow talk a bit 15 about the problems that the airport created for him, we had 16 similar problems with massive fires that were created by the 17 airport, causing great smoke problems. Fortunately, 18 Commissioner Williams helped out on it, but there was almost 19 anarchy, I think, on the handling of removal of that 20 vegetation. But the net result has been a big change in 21 historical flow of water as a result of all that. 22 Secondly, I'm not aware of any accommodation that 23 Martin Marietta is taking to, I believe, the state law that 24 requires a 500-foot setback from the state highway for mining 25 operations, and this appears to be within that 500-foot area. 8-14-06 37 1 And thirdly, I was wondering if there was any plan for 2 remediation of this site after the mining is completed. And I 3 might finally say that we're extremely opposed to this plan, 4 and will do whatever's necessary to fight any permits from a 5 legal perspective. Any questions for me about it? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Setback issue? 7 MR. GARCIA: Setback issue, I'm not sure that -- I'm 8 not familiar with the 500-foot setback issue on this property. 9 L.B., can you address that? 10 MR. BHATNAGAR: The setbacks from the highway, they 11 are regulated by the Railroad Commission. And the -- the 12 buffers, the Railroad Commission requires certain setbacks, 13 and also there is a variety of setbacks where if you are 14 mining closer to certain public highways, then we have to make 15 sure there is berm -- or safety berms in place so people don't 16 accidentally drive into the mining pit area. And all our 17 mining areas, they'll comply with the Railroad Commission 18 requirements. 19 MR. GARCIA: And as far as the water issue that you 20 mentioned, I -- I don't know of that issue. I have not -- 21 I've not -- wasn't aware of it. That's something that we do 22 need to look at, probably. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're talking about the 24 removal of the vegetation on the airport property has caused 25 increase in sheet flow coming off on your property? 8-14-06 38 1 MR. HAPPY: Yes, it's been quite a remarkable change 2 on all the property on the other side of the highway from the 3 airport changes. Yes, and there are a number of springs on 4 the hillside that have been affected by that, and could 5 potentially be affected by this mining operation, too. The 6 springs right near the barn, you can see the north end of that 7 drawing. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, while setback is a 9 different issue from floodplain, I would like Mr. Odom to take 10 a look into that to see what the state regulations are with 11 respect to setbacks off the state highway when you're 12 examining this issue. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- I mean, I don't know 14 that Mr. Odom's qualified to -- I mean, I understand 15 Mr. Happy's concern, and I think Martin Marietta needs to 16 comply with all the state law, period. And I don't think -- 17 MR. GARCIA: Absolutely. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I don't think that Mr. Odom 19 needs to spend his time checking what the state law is. 20 That's up to the Railroad Commission and T.C.E.Q. and the -- 21 and probably TexDOT, and who knows who else. So, I mean, I 22 just hate to saddle him with having to be responsible to look 23 at what the setback rules are for -- for a mining operation. 24 That's up to the state agencies. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: My point only was just to 8-14-06 39 1 make certain we had the correct information, that's all. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not to regulate it. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. We appreciate you being 5 here. 6 MR. GARCIA: We had one more map to show. 7 MR. HAPPY: Judge, I had one other question I asked 8 him. It was, are there any remediation plans for this site? 9 MR. GARCIA: Typically, we will have -- once we're 10 through mining a site, we will have a remediation plan in 11 place and we will reclaim the property, yes. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, at the risk of mixing 13 apples with oranges, which I really don't want to do, but 14 you're -- the Court will remember that we talked at the joint 15 meeting with City Council about the abandonment of a proposed 16 bridge over the Guadalupe which would cut right through the 17 middle of county property in the vicinity of the Ag Barn and 18 River Star Park and Flat Rock Lake Park, and, certainly, we 19 don't want that to happen. But the issue of a crossing across 20 the Guadalupe, as the county continues to grow and the city 21 continues to expand southward out Highway 173, has caused me 22 to meet with Mr. Odom and begin to talk about -- we've had a 23 preliminary -- just a preliminary discussion with TexDOT about 24 another possible alternate crossing on the Guadalupe, and what 25 we're really beginning to noodle a little bit is -- and let me 8-14-06 40 1 orient the Court. This is Sutherland Road right here. This 2 is Highway 27. This is Airport Loop Road right here. This is 3 Brinks Crossing right here and C.P. River Road meandering 4 through here. The idea, of course, would be to facilitate a 5 crossing that would link Highway 27 at the vicinity of the 6 Airport Loop Road with Highway 173, which is down here, and 7 cut across and create a new crossing at Brinks Crossing and 8 find a way to meander up here and link up with Highway 173. 9 It's in the noodling stage -- it's in the noodling stages. 10 Nothing's happened. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Should I run? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Had some discussion with 13 TexDOT, and that's the extent of it. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: How long would the -- 15 what -- over what period of time would you mine this location? 16 How long will it take to get the product out? 17 MR. GARCIA: We are probably looking at somewhere 18 between six and eight years. Is that correct, Al? 19 MR. MONTEMAYOR: Yes. 20 MR. GARCIA: We're putting together a mining plan 21 now, but probably six or eight years. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Commissioner Williams, 23 you're thinking that, coincidentally, there might be a -- a 24 route for this -- 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's why we brought it up 8-14-06 41 1 in this discussion with Martin Marietta, is because if that 2 were to come -- come about, we'd need right-of-way through 3 there, and probably, based on the way TexDOT does things these 4 days, it would fall to the County and/or the City to go -- our 5 responsibility to provide the right-of-way. And -- and that 6 is a county road that crosses Brinks Crossing. C.P. River 7 Road is a county road. So, yeah, I thought as long as they're 8 getting ready to mine, this might not be inappropriate to talk 9 about future right-of-way requirements. That's all I have. 10 MR. GARCIA: Gentlemen, thank you very much. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. 12 MR. GARCIA: We appreciate the time. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you for coming. 14 MR. GARCIA: It's just going to take us a couple of 15 minutes to take our equipment -- 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You can resume your 17 discussion with Mr. Odom. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: We have another timed item that we 19 are late in getting to -- it was timed for 9:45 -- that we'll 20 move to now. Item 6, consider, discuss, and take appropriate 21 action on a proposed plan -- on proposed plan changes, 22 provision changes for Texas County and District Retirement 23 System 2007 plan year. We have with us a representative from 24 T.C.D.R.S. If you'd be kind enough to give us your name? 25 MR. JAGOU: Absolutely. Good morning, gentlemen. 8-14-06 42 1 My name is John Jagou; it's J-a-g-o-u. I am Communications 2 Representative for the Texas County and District Retirement 3 System. I'm here today to discuss some of the proposed plan 4 changes for the 2007 plan year for the retirement plan that 5 Kerr County has and we help administrate at the Texas County 6 and District Retirement System. I have little packets for you 7 guys that we can go over just briefly. I am stumbling on 8 things, too. I've got one for everybody. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thank you. 10 MR. JAGOU: First of all, I want to say that I have 11 some very fond memories of Kerr County; I went to Camp Stewart 12 when I was a youngster for four years back in the -- well, it 13 was a long time ago, back in the late '70's, early '80's, so I 14 always enjoy coming back to Kerr County. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Does your orange T-shirt 16 still fit? 17 MR. JAGOU: No. The shorts don't fit either, 18 unfortunately. But I want to briefly just go over just a 19 brief overview of the plan and the changes and how it affects 20 the plan, and then I will go into the two specific items that 21 were proposed to me by -- that I believe the County Treasurer, 22 Ms. Nemec, had proposed to y'all, and which you referred to 23 the partial lump sum distribution at the time of retirement, 24 and also lowering the retirement eligibility requirements from 25 30 years to 20 years. So, if y'all wouldn't mind, if y'all 8-14-06 43 1 would take out this portion of the -- of the presentation that 2 I've presented right here, I believe it's on the right side 3 for everybody, and I'm just going to briefly go over this. 4 Like I said, we'll -- as you guys know, we're just going to go 5 over how Kerr County pays for its retirement benefits, and as 6 well as the retirement benefits that you as Commissioners can 7 select on a year-to-year basis. 8 Now, the way that the Kerr retirement plan works is 9 that the County is saving in advance. The rate that you pay 10 right now, the percentage of payroll is going into an account 11 that we have set up at T.C.D.R.S. We are saving in advance 12 for the benefits -- for the retirement benefits that you are 13 promising your employees today that you will pay out to them 14 in the future when they retire. Not everyone's going retire 15 from Kerr County, as we know, but for folks that do end up 16 retiring from Kerr County, you are saving money for them right 17 now to go ahead and -- and pay out these benefits in the 18 future. Now, the Commissioners Court, current and past, has 19 established a benefit plan for county employees, and the 20 county's contributions to T.C.D.R.S. become part of that trust 21 and will be used to pay out the county employees' annuities. 22 Now, the more benefits you promise to your County employees, 23 that means the more contributions you have to make for those 24 benefits, in order to pay for those benefits down the road. 25 Now, the way that we look at it is that we compare 8-14-06 44 1 the county savings, your projected assets, to the benefits 2 promised the County employees. In other words, the future 3 projected payouts, which is why your contribution rate 4 increases or decreases annually. So what we're doing, 5 essentially, is we're comparing assets to liabilities. We 6 make actuarial assumptions. Now, are we ever going to know 7 that we made the correct assumptions? The only way we would 8 ever know is when the last retiree gets his last annuity 9 check, so, obviously, we have no idea when that's going to be. 10 Now, just to give y'all an example, if we go -- flip over to 11 Page Number 4, T.C.D.R.S. Every year we set actuarial 12 assumptions, certain things that we look at based on how Kerr 13 County has performed in the past, and where we look at 14 expected employee withdrawals, expected payroll growth. And 15 what we mean by that is, your current rate right now is 16 7.6 percent. Well 7.6 percent in January may not equal the 17 same 7.6 percent that you're paying in December. Maybe you've 18 hired more employees. Maybe your payroll has gone up. Maybe 19 it's gone down, et cetera. 20 We also assume an 8 percent return on investments 21 for the employer side. Now, as you guys know, the employees 22 receive 7 percent of return on investments to their accounts, 23 and that's guaranteed by the T.C.D.R.S. Act. There is a 24 defined benefit plan, so the ones that assume the risk on our 25 investments are actually the employers. They're the ones that 8-14-06 45 1 assume the investment risk. So, our goal at T.C.D.R.S. is to 2 achieve 58 percent return so that the employees can get their 3 7 percent which is guaranteed, and that employers will then 4 get 9 percent credited to their account. Obviously, some 5 years we make that; some years we don't. And the years where 6 we don't make it, sometimes we use some of our reserves to 7 make up that to reach the 9 percent. And -- but then again, 8 in some years we -- we make more than 9 percent, so that the 9 employers will be able to enjoy that as well. And, obviously, 10 we'll look at expected retirements, and then we'll be -- what 11 we do is that we look -- we make these assumptions, and then 12 we base that on what's happened in the past, and then we 13 compare it to what actually happened in that year. And that's 14 how we come up with -- with the rate. 15 Now, another thing that's happened that we do every 16 four years, is every four years we have our outside actuary, a 17 company called Milliman, they come in and perform what we call 18 an investigation. They look at our last four years worth of 19 actuarial assumptions, then they make some recommendations to 20 us based on these assumptions. And they look at not only Kerr 21 County's plan, but they look at the entire system as a whole 22 because Kerr County's plan is going to be independent from 23 what the other counties have, what the other districts have. 24 There's a couple of districts here in Kerr County that are 25 also members of T.C.D.R.S. as well. So, if you look at Page 5 8-14-06 46 1 here, I have Kerr County's rate history for the past four 2 years, and as you can see here, just looking at the beginning 3 rate and the ending rate, Kerr County really hasn't fluctuated 4 that much from, 7 and a half to 8 percent. 5 And the very last column, 2006-2007, you're going to 6 notice that there's a pretty big bump of .6 percent in 7 assumptions and methods, and that was due to our 8 investigations study. What we've noticed is, folks in the 9 counties are working longer. In other words, they're going to 10 be working longer, to the point to where they get vested if 11 they work -- in Kerr County, it's eight years. Once they 12 reach eight years, they're vested. In other words, if they 13 have 28 years of service that they leave Kerr County, if they 14 leave their money in, they're going to be able to benefit when 15 they reach one of the other age requirements for retirement, 16 and that's exactly what's happening to Kerr County. The 17 median age -- the median years of service is over eight years, 18 so for folks that are leaving Kerr County that have more than 19 eight years of service, they're leaving the money in, so 20 that's the reason why this .6 has actually gone up. That's 21 why it's increased your amount for next year. 22 Now, you guys are thinking about considering making 23 some additional changes, and I want to go over those as well. 24 And those changes are lowering the retirement eligibility 25 from -- and that's going to be on Page 7, the bottom one. 8-14-06 47 1 Lowering the retirement eligibility from any age and 30 years 2 of service, which is what it is currently, right now, to any 3 age and 20 years of service. Now, when you lower retirement 4 eligibility, that is a permanent change. You can't go back up 5 to 30 years if you lower the retirement eligibility. It's 6 going to be 20 years, and it's going to be permanent. That's 7 going to have some effects. First of all, it's going to make 8 a lot more folks eligible to retire a lot quicker than in the 9 past, because folks that are at 15, 16, 17 years of service, 10 instead of having to wait 10 more years to get to the 30 11 years, obviously, they don't have to wait nearly as long. So, 12 that could have an adverse effect on your future rates in the 13 years down the road, especially if a lot more folks take 14 advantage of that early retirement. 15 Now, the other change that you are considering, if 16 we flip the page to Page Number 8, that is partial lump sum 17 distribution. Again, this is a permanent change that you are 18 making to your retirement plan, if you decide to do it. And 19 what this says is, if I'm a Kerr County employee and I'm going 20 to retire, if you have authorized partial lump sum 21 distribution, then what I can do is that I can take anywhere 22 from zero to 100 percent of the balance of my account out, and 23 then Kerr County is still going to match the whole balance. 24 Say if it was $100,000, they're still going to match that 25 $100,000 at 190 percent, but I could take out anywhere from 8-14-06 48 1 zero to -- zero to 100 percent of that. So, in other words, 2 what would happen, it would end up costing the County a little 3 bit more because of the way we pay out the retirement 4 annuities, which we're going to exhaust the employee's portion 5 of their account first, and then we'd go into the employer's 6 portion as far as the match, and if the employees take out 7 their portion first, the first thing we're going to exhaust 8 when it comes to the annuities is going to be the employer's 9 portion. 10 Now, there are couple of caveats, as far as on the 11 employee. What this would do to them, first of all, it's 12 going to lower their monthly pension if they -- if they do 13 take out a partial lump sum. And secondly, remember, this is 14 a tax-deferred retirement plan, so there are going to be some 15 tax consequences if they do take out a partial lump sum. We 16 withhold 20 percent to pay for federal income tax, and if 17 they're under the age of 59 and a half, they may be subject to 18 a 10 percent early withdrawal penalty. So, partial lump sum 19 is an optional. It is an optional. Yes, sir? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Would partial lump sum also be a 21 permanent change? 22 MR. JAGOU: Yes, sir. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: With the 20 to -- or 30 to 20 year? 24 MR. JAGOU: That is correct. It would be a 25 permanent -- it would be a permanent change to your retirement 8-14-06 49 1 plan, as well as lowering from 30 to 20 years. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: This lump sum withdrawal, 3 is it correct that any employee can avoid the federal 4 withholding of the early withdrawal by rolling that amount 5 into an IRA? 6 MR. JAGOU: They could roll it over into an IRA or 7 401(k); you're absolutely correct. Now, again, it is -- it is 8 an option for the retirees. All the retirees do not have to 9 do this, but it is an option that they have. One thing they 10 say is that we do -- remember, for folks that are retiring, 11 the way that our retirement plan works is, we have -- we 12 compound interest on an annual basis, so for folks that are 13 eligible to retire, they put in 20 years, et cetera, we 14 guarantee 7 percent on the retirement plan, and which means 15 that your account's going to double about every 10 to 11 16 years. And I -- and since the 7 percent is guaranteed -- I 17 don't know of any financial adviser that could guarantee 7 18 percent, and if I do hear of any, then you may want to talk to 19 another financial adviser, 'cause they're not supposed to do 20 that. So, it is -- it is something that the employees are 21 going to have to think about when they do retire. But you, as 22 Commissioners Court, are providing them with that option. 23 Now, there are going to be some costs involved when 24 it comes to this. And if you look at the -- in your folder, I 25 have the plan assessment for Kerr County. If you flip over to 8-14-06 50 1 the very last page, what I've done is that I've created some 2 -- some exhibits that have rates for these options, and I've 3 done an exhibit to show how much would be added to the 2007 4 rate by lowering eligibility separately, partial lump sum 5 separately, and then combining both, how much the rate would 6 be. And if you look under plan rates, total required rate for 7 2007 for the current plan as-is, if you don't make any changes 8 for next year, Kerr County will be paying 8.12 percent. Now, 9 if you re -- if you lower the retirement eligibility from 30 10 years to 20 years, that 8.12 percent will go up .14 percent to 11 8.26 percent. Now, if you just do the -- if you just provide 12 the partial lump sum, then that 8.12 percent would be 13 increased by 25 basis points to 8.37 percent. And if you 14 combine both, then the increase would go from 8.12 percent up 15 to 8.54 percent. In other words, an increase of .42 percent 16 if both are added to your retirement plan. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What would be our 18 motivation for making such a change? What -- 19 MR. JAGOU: Well, motivation could be maybe you want 20 to -- I know some counties, that when they lower to 20, they 21 want to, you know, bring on some -- some younger people; you 22 don't have to pay them as much, so maybe that would be one of 23 the motivations. Partial lump sum, I hear -- just like you 24 mentioned, maybe some folks are going to want to do something 25 else with their -- when they retire. They have the option to 8-14-06 51 1 carve out a portion of what they'd saved all those years, and 2 then maybe have a -- keep working for themselves, so they can 3 reinvest it, or maybe they want to -- whatever it is that they 4 want to do; buy a car, whatever the case may be. But the 5 biggest motivation as far as lowering from 30 to 20 that I've 6 heard from other counties is that they can go ahead and 7 reemploy that position, and then usually it's going to be at a 8 lower salary. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And this -- these options 10 of lowering eligibility and offering a partial lump sum, these 11 are new options? 12 MR. JAGOU: They are not new options. They have 13 been a part of the retirement plan for quite a while. I will 14 say that the -- for the retirement eligibility -- and if you 15 do lower it to 20, you would have three ways for folks to 16 become eligible to retire, and that is at 60 years of age and 17 eight years of service, or what we call the Rule of 75, which 18 is your age plus the years of service that you've put in, or 19 in this case, at 20 years and any age, you'd be able to 20 retire. And there are 47 other counties in Texas that have 21 the 8/75/20 of -- those three levels of retirement 22 eligibility. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Commissioner Baldwin, in 24 the past, have you old-timers considered making these changes? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, I haven't heard these 8-14-06 52 1 kind of changes. We've made some changes through the years. 2 And I actually fall in some of this, so I'm going to think 3 about this pretty strong. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- the employee rate doesn't 5 change; it's the County's contribution. 6 MR. JAGOU: That is correct. The employee will 7 still be paying 7 percent, which is the maximum that the 8 employees can pay from their -- can contribute from their 9 paychecks. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: County's contribution will go 11 from 8.12, if we did both, to 8.54? 12 MR. JAGOU: That is correct. That's correct. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, it would be under a half 14 a point if we did both. 15 MR. JAGOU: Yeah, the whole -- the total amount 16 would be .42 percent would be the increased rate. Judge, did 17 you have a question? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: The -- the partial lump sum 19 distribution would only be applicable to that which the 20 employee has paid in? 21 MR. JAGOU: That is correct. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: From the employee's -- 23 MR. JAGOU: It would be the employee's account. 24 That's the only portion that they would be able to partially 25 draw out anywhere from zero to 100 percent. 8-14-06 53 1 JUDGE TINLEY: So, that's their money anyway. 2 MR. JAGOU: Exactly. Exactly. You're -- and -- but 3 it -- like I said, what it would do is, the way that our 4 county -- if you look at page -- I have it on here -- at Page 5 8, I have calculating the pension, a little chart showing 6 calculating the pension. And the way the retirement plan 7 works is, when a person decides to retire, you're going to 8 look at final balance. We move it into what we call an 9 annuity reserve, at which time the funds from Kerr County are 10 moved in there as well, and they match -- Kerr County matches 11 at 190 percent. So, if the employee has $100,000, you -- Kerr 12 County is then going to match that with $190,000. But if the 13 employee takes out all that $100,000, Kerr County is still 14 matching 190; they're still going to match it 100 percent of 15 what the -- of what the employee had in his account, so Kerr 16 County's still going to move that $190,000 in. But instead of 17 exhausting the employee's account first, which is how the 18 retirement plan works, it's going to start exhausting the 19 County's money, which is why there is going to be a little bit 20 of a -- of a bump in your rate when you first do this. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you have a -- sorry, Judge -- 22 an idea as to what the financial impact is to the County of 23 these -- I mean, this looks like small percentage increases 24 here, but I suspect these numbers are real large. 25 MR. JAGOU: Well, as far as financial impact, it 8-14-06 54 1 really is going to depend on -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Payroll? 3 MR. JAGOU: -- on payroll. Payroll's going to be 4 the big -- I have noticed over the past five years, though, 5 that your county has grown, so your payroll is increasing. 6 So, I have noticed that. Yes, sir? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I notice that you did not compute any 8 possible changes in buy-back. Would you, number one, tell us 9 about that provision and what might be entailed there? 10 MR. JAGOU: What a buy-back is, a buy-back allows 11 folks that have come back to the county -- they have worked 12 previously in the county, had withdrawn their funds when they 13 left -- they withdrew their account, and then they come back 14 to work for the county. And what a buy-back does is, if the 15 Commissioners Court passes a buy-back, what they're saying is, 16 "Okay, you folks that left the county can go ahead and put 17 your money back into the account, and -- into your account, 18 and then we're going to match that at retirement." And -- and 19 that -- and if you -- if a buy-back was something that you 20 were looking at, then we would actually perform what we call a 21 buy-back study to look at what -- who are the employees that 22 would be affected by this buy-back, and ultimately how much it 23 would cost the county for the buy-back. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: How long would it take to you perform 25 such a -- 8-14-06 55 1 MR. JAGOU: It takes about a month, and as long as 2 we have -- we have to have it in by October 15. So, if there 3 is something that you would like me to do, I will be more than 4 happy to provide that for you. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: I'd like to -- as long as we're 6 looking at options, I'd like to take a look at that. 7 MR. JAGOU: Sure. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: 'cause it -- it occurs to me, that's 9 a way of -- when you have the option of getting experienced 10 employees back in the fold, as it were, that -- that would be 11 an incentive for them to come back to work for the county, if 12 there were ones that you wanted to get back. 13 MR. JAGOU: If they're folks that have left. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Essentially, Judge, you do 15 this buy-back option on a one-off basis? Or is it -- are we 16 implementing a policy where anybody would be eligible? 17 MR. JAGOU: No, the buy-back -- that would be the 18 folks that had left and came back; they would be eligible to 19 participate. Now, it is their option. They don't necessarily 20 -- you're not forcing them to participate, but they are going 21 to have the option to participate. It's not for all 22 employees; it's just -- 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We don't have that -- 24 MR. JAGOU: -- a select number. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We don't have that 8-14-06 56 1 provision in place now? 2 MR. JAGOU: No, you don't have a buy-back. And I 3 think that Kerr County did pass a buy-back, actually, in 2003. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Is this a -- a periodic option that 5 we exercise, or is this something, once we exercise it -- 6 obviously, it's not permanent if we did it in '03 and it's not 7 in force now. 8 MR. JAGOU: For the folks that had left and come 9 back before 2003, then they would be eligible to participate 10 in the buy-back right now. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: So, those -- 12 MR. JAGOU: But the folks from 2004 to today would 13 not be eligible to participate. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If I -- 16 JUDGE TINLEY: So, we've got it in place for a 17 significant number of employees -- 18 MR. JAGOU: That's right. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: -- that may be out there. Just those 20 that came on board since -- since '03. 21 MR. JAGOU: That's correct. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: We've not afforded that option to 23 them. 24 MR. JAGOU: That is correct. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 8-14-06 57 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just a clarification -- 2 MR. JAGOU: Yes. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- if you will, on the COLA. 4 MR. JAGOU: Yes. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The -- the last time we 6 adopted a COLA adjustment for retirees was in '05, I believe. 7 MR. JAGOU: That is correct, 2005. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That was a -- that was a 9 one-shot adjustment; is that correct? 10 MR. JAGOU: Yes, that is a -- a permanent increase 11 to retirees' annuities, and the one that you passed was 12 50 percent of the Consumer Price Index COLA. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For that year? 14 MR. JAGOU: For that year. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which is added onto their 16 pension from that point forward? 17 MR. JAGOU: Exactly, going forward, because you're 18 permanently increasing your retirees' annuities by -- 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not a COLA adjustment, just 20 that one-time -- 21 MR. JAGOU: Just that one time. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, if we were to consider 23 doing it again, you didn't present any number for that? 24 MR. JAGOU: I -- I don't have numbers in this 25 presentation, but I do have COLA rates. I believe they are -- 8-14-06 58 1 if you look over on the rate portion on page -- the numbered 2 Page 3 has a little chart. It's the page right before the 3 rates, and I have the COLA rates there. Now, there are two 4 kind of COLA's that you can pass -- did you find it, sir? And 5 those are a flat rate, 1 to 4 percent increase. In other 6 words, you know, if it's $1,000, and you pass a 4 percent, 7 they get a 40 -- a $40 bump, for the folks that have $1,000. 8 Or, again, you could pass a CPI-based COLA. Basically, you 9 have passed a CPI-based COLA recently, and it was a 50 percent 10 CPI-based COLA. What that means is, for the folks that 11 retired a long time ago, if you will, their $1,000 that they 12 had in 1985, let's say, isn't going to be worth the same 13 $1,000 they have now, because their purchasing power has been 14 cut significantly. So, by passing a CPI-based COLA -- in this 15 case, it was 50 percent -- you have pretty much increased 16 their buying power an additional 50 percent. So, it greatly 17 affects the folks that have been retired longer. For the 18 folks that haven't been retired as long, within the past two, 19 three years of retirement, their increase won't be as much, 20 because -- because the Consumer Price Index inflation hadn't 21 increased as much as it had for the folks that have retired, 22 say, 10, 15 years ago. But, yes, that is a permanent 23 increase, and it is -- you know, it is now calculated as part 24 of the -- of the contribution rate. And, so, if you -- if you 25 pass another COLA, then, again, that will be permanently added 8-14-06 59 1 to the contribution rate for -- for next year and future years 2 as well. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If I understand correctly, 4 if that were to be -- if the Court were to consider doing 5 that, that's an additional quarter of a point; is that 6 correct? 7 MR. JAGOU: It really -- for 50 percent, if you 8 decided to do another 50 percent CPI, it would be .14 percent. 9 And, again, the rates are going to vary, depending on which -- 10 on which COLA you want to pass. If we do the CPI-based -- 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I see the chart now. 12 MR. JAGOU: And then the flat rate's from 1 to 13 4 percent. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 15 MR. JAGOU: Sure. Now, one thing that -- 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'd just like to make sure 17 I'm clear on the buy-back. 18 MR. JAGOU: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: This says the last buy-back 20 we authorized was in 2003. 21 MR. JAGOU: Yes. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, anybody who left county 23 employment before that and withdrew their deposits, and came 24 -- comes back to work now has the option of -- 25 MR. JAGOU: No, it would be the folks that came back 8-14-06 60 1 before 2003. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's what I'm saying. 3 MR. JAGOU: Right. Not the folks now. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: If somebody left in the 5 90's, withdrew their deposits, came back to work now, they 6 could redeposit -- 7 MR. JAGOU: They -- they wouldn't be able to 8 participate in the buy-back because they came back -- they 9 came back after the buy-back was performed. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But my understanding is that 12 they can buy it back, but also, the time that they served 13 prior to is reinstated. 14 MR. JAGOU: The time is reinstated automatically 15 when they come back. Say if they have five years; they're 16 going to walk in with five years service, and that's 17 reinstated automatically. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We start picking back up 19 again. 20 MR. JAGOU: Exactly. That's exactly correct. Now, 21 I will say this, though. For the folks that come back after 22 the buy-back, they have the option of what we call an optional 23 deposit, where they can put in what they have withdrawn, plus 24 the interest they would have earned, plus the match that Kerr 25 County would provide, which in this case is 190 percent, 8-14-06 61 1 anywhere from zero to whatever that total amount is. It's a 2 one-time deal. But if they do that, if they do participate in 3 that, then they forego their eligibility to participate in a 4 future buy-back. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think we currently have a 6 situation where a -- a reemployed person may be eligible and 7 want to exercise that eligibility. What's the -- the 8 administrative process for doing that? 9 MR. JAGOU: The best thing to do is for them to give 10 our customer service number a call, and then customer service 11 will calculate how much they would have to put back in. We 12 would calculate up in Austin how much that person would put 13 back in. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't know about the rest of you 15 gentlemen, but I'd like to see some more numbers. I realize, 16 number one, this has budgetary impact, and I'd like to 17 calculate those roughly. We also need to see what effect the 18 contribution rate generally is going to cost, and I'd like to 19 see what the financial consequences of these other options are 20 before we make a decision. So, I -- I'd like to see what the 21 buy-back issue is. 22 MR. JAGOU: Okay. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: I'd like to see -- we've got the 24 information on the COLA's. That -- that's -- 25 MR. JAGOU: I can provide you -- 8-14-06 62 1 JUDGE TINLEY: -- plugged in the computation, but if 2 you could include that, I'd appreciate it. 3 MR. JAGOU: Absolutely. If there's a specific 4 COLA -- we usually provide you with a 100 percent CPI 5 automatically, but if there's a specific CPI-based or a 6 flat-rate COLA that you guys would want to look at, just let 7 Barbara know, and she'll contact me, and I'll be more than 8 happy to -- those take about two weeks to do. And one thing I 9 will say, and this is something that we at T.C.D.R.S. are 10 trying to get our counties and departments more involved with, 11 and that's what we call paying a higher elected rate. Even 12 though your contribution rate's -- say, if you don't do 13 anything, is 8.12, we think it's a really good idea if -- of 14 course, if counties and districts are able to do it, to go 15 ahead and pay a little extra in; let's say pay up to, like, 16 8.25 or 8.35 percent. Because what we -- paying a higher 17 elected rate, what you can do is, you're going to prefund 18 future benefit increases, so when the time does come to go 19 ahead and -- and make those -- whether it's a COLA or a lower 20 retirement eligibility or adding partial lump-sum, whatever 21 the case may be, by prefunding those, and -- and in previous 22 years, the cost won't be nearly as much, because you've 23 already prefunded them. 24 And it also helps for budgeting purposes, because 25 you know the flat rate, how much you're going to pay over a 8-14-06 63 1 year. It makes it a little easier. And we have -- out of 2 everyone in our system -- we do have the charts here. Pardon 3 me. We have about -- we have a little under 600 in the whole 4 system, and we have about a little over 100 that do make a 5 higher -- that do pay a higher elected rate, and that's on 6 Page 6, the chart about how much those folks pay. In fact, I 7 know that the emergency district here, the 9-1-1 district that 8 is a member of T.C.D.R.S., they do pay a higher elected rate 9 as well, and by doing so, over the past few years they've 10 actually been able to increase their match -- or they're 11 thinking about increasing the -- the employer matching rate 12 for the next year. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: One other question. 14 MR. JAGOU: Yes? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did you drive down here from 16 Austin this morning? 17 MR. JAGOU: Yes, sir. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, while you're here, you 19 wouldn't mind visiting with the -- maybe if there's a couple 20 of employees that would like to visit for a few minutes? 21 MR. JAGOU: Oh, I would be more than happy to. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, thank you. Thank you 23 very much. 24 MR. JAGOU: So, just before I -- you want to make -- 25 you want the buy-back study, Judge, and you also want a COLA 8-14-06 64 1 study as well? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, in addition to what you've 3 already provided. 4 MR. JAGOU: Okay. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: And I think that's pretty well the 6 gamut of options that we don't have in place; would that not 7 be correct? 8 MR. JAGOU: That is correct. Obviously, other 9 options you have is that you could always increase or decrease 10 the matching rate, and we did have a legislative change last 11 year. In the past, you could only increase it 25 basis 12 points, and if you made the increase, it was for past deposits 13 and future deposits. Well, now what we've done is we've said, 14 okay, we're going to -- if you're going to increase, you can 15 increase now in 5-basis-point increments. You don't have to 16 do the whole 25 basis points. And you can increase based on 17 future only deposits, or make it future and retroactively as 18 well. So, you guys have a lot more flexibility when it comes 19 to increasing the employer matching rate as well. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Could you give us -- in the study 21 that you're going to do, can you give us some examples of 22 that? 23 MR. JAGOU: Sure. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: That might -- 25 MR. JAGOU: Absolutely. 8-14-06 65 1 JUDGE TINLEY: -- crystallize it better for us as we 2 look at it. 3 MR. JAGOU: Absolutely. Sure, I'll be more than 4 happy to. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Just another option we'd have, would 6 it not? 7 MR. JAGOU: Yes, it is. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can you build in -- or get with 9 our Auditor or Treasurer and get the payroll numbers so we can 10 get the dollar impact to our budget? 11 MR. JAGOU: Okay. Well, that's -- I guess she 12 should be able to provide that for you, but I'll give her -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, the calculation as to -- for 14 each of these options, what the -- 15 MR. JAGOU: -- I'll give her the rates, and then 16 she'll -- I'm sure that she'll be able to calculate that for 17 you. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, there's a question 19 here. 20 MR. CHAPMAN: I just was wondering if I might 21 attempt to answer Commissioner Nicholson's question about 22 motivation of the Court to consider -- I didn't know about the 23 other option on changing the eligibility requirements. Of 24 course, my -- my issue, of course, is partial lump sum 25 distribution. 8-14-06 66 1 JUDGE TINLEY: I understand. Are you through with 2 your presentation at this point? 3 MR. JAGOU: Yes, sir. I'm more than happy to answer 4 any questions that anyone has. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any member of the Court have 6 any questions? Mr. Chapman, we'll be happy to hear from you, 7 if you'll give us your name and address and -- 8 MR. CHAPMAN: Gary Chapman, P.O. Box 408, Ingram. 9 I'd also like to speak to the gentleman after the -- these 10 things, too. I wanted to address Commissioner Nicholson's 11 question on what motivation the Court might have to consider 12 at least this one option, and possibly two. The main thing 13 is, it is another benefit that can be offered, obviously, to 14 the employee, and which may or may not be a good thing, 15 depending on point of view. On this partial lump sum 16 distribution, one thing that can be done with that, that -- in 17 the -- particularly in my particular case, and it would hold 18 true for everybody else too, I'm sure, those moneys -- like 19 you talked about if I had $100,000 on my -- in my part of the 20 account. Well, that is, true enough, my money. What my 21 interest is is being able to get that money in my hand, and 22 that will become part of my estate should something happen to 23 me, and my beneficiary -- it would be passed along to whoever 24 I deem fit to give it to. The other thing, I can invest that 25 in -- you know, in any manner that I'd like to. Now, granted, 8-14-06 67 1 one of the first rules of investment is that past performance 2 is not an indicator of future performance. We understand 3 that. There are risks. But I can also take that money and 4 get a few more points of return on that money than I can 5 with -- say, with the 7 percent. And that's not guaranteed, 6 like he's talking about, but I can get several more points of 7 return on my money, and that's my particular interest, along 8 with holding that money in control myself. I just want to get 9 the best bang for my buck that I can, which, at the point of 10 retirement, I need. Which is the issue -- the reason I 11 brought this up to the County Judge in the first place. And 12 that -- that's my whole point. The motivation will be 13 strictly the benefit for the employee, and which we all would 14 benefit from that. And that would -- that would be all that I 15 could add to that. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: When I worked in the 17 private sector, my company offered a lump-sum option. You can 18 have a pension or you can have a lump sum. No one ever took a 19 pension. All -- everybody always took the lump sum. Not one 20 in 10,000 took a pension. 21 MR. CHAPMAN: Well, there are people, I suppose, 22 that would -- they can't stand to see that money sitting there 23 and not be able to get their hands on it. And they would have 24 actually quit their job just so they can get it. Now, there's 25 nothing to keep anybody from doing that. There's nothing to 8-14-06 68 1 keep anybody on retirement from drawing that lump sum -- 2 partial lump sum and then blow it. You just -- there's just 3 nothing you can do about that. Myself, personally, I -- 4 that's certainly not my intention. I wouldn't cut my own 5 throat, so to speak, but that could be done. That would -- 6 that could happen. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Are there any other 8 questions about this by any member of the Court? We 9 appreciate your assistance, and if you'd be kind enough to put 10 those things together for us? 11 MR. JAGOU: Sure. I'm at y'all's service if you 12 guys have any questions. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: We hate to put you on a short fuse, 14 but these things that we're dealing with have budgetary 15 impact. I know we've got generally until -- I believe it's 16 December 15th to make a final election? 17 MR. JAGOU: That is correct. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: But with the budgetary impact, we 19 need to know what these things are going to be. 20 MR. JAGOU: We have until October 15th to do a 21 buy-back, so obviously, we have plenty of time to get that in 22 as well. So, I'll be more than happy to -- since Barbara is 23 my official contact, I will -- as soon as it's ready, I will 24 pass that on to her. I'm sure she will pass it along to 25 y'all, as well as the information as far as budgetary 8-14-06 69 1 information with payroll that she'll be able to calculate. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You mentioned a two-week 3 turnaround? We'd be real -- 4 MR. JAGOU: It will be two weeks for the COLA study. 5 I'm not sure what it is for the buy-back, but I will let 6 Barbara know exactly as to the buy-back. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have a meeting in two weeks. 8 It'd be nice to have it by then. 9 MR. JAGOU: Okay. I will definitely make a note of 10 that, and try and get them -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. 12 MR. JAGOU: -- try and get them to do that. Here 13 you are, Judge. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Appreciate that. 15 MR. CHAPMAN: Judge? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Chapman, you had something else 17 you wanted to offer? 18 MR. CHAPMAN: I want to ask you a question. You and 19 I have talked about this before, that we've got -- I think -- 20 I don't know if it's December, but on this particular issue, 21 the -- is it December or October that you need to -- for the 22 partial lump sum? 23 MR. JAGOU: For the partial lump sum, by 24 December 15th. It's the buy-back study that we have to 25 provide by October 15th, but we'll possibly not go to the 8-14-06 70 1 deadline for that. 2 MR. CHAPMAN: Well, my issue is that I'm kind of 3 under the gun myself, because I am attempting to retire right 4 after the first of the year, first week or so of January, for 5 reasons -- instead of December 31st, I'm waiting till after 6 the first of January. I'm kind of under the gun on that as 7 far as this issue, because, if I'm not mistaken, it takes at 8 least a month, maybe little bit more, for all that paperwork. 9 MR. JAGOU: The way the retirement works, you would 10 retire -- first of all, whatever changes you do make, if any, 11 will not go into effect until January 1, 2007. But you can 12 retire on the last day of any month, so your retirement 13 wouldn't be until the 31st, if you decided to retire in 14 January, and then you would go ahead and get that first check 15 in -- you'd get your first check by February 20. 16 MR. CHAPMAN: My question was, as far as the 17 Commissioners Court taking action, I can't actually make any 18 plans until I know -- until I investigate what the benefits 19 may or may not be to me, myself, with this partial lump sum 20 distribution. It may or may not help me. It would be a -- I 21 need to provide my advisers with those numbers from T.C.D.R.S. 22 And I can't get those estimates, so I'm told, from T.C.D.R.S. 23 until Kerr County actually passes that provision. I've tried 24 to ask for just an estimate so I can plan ahead for what I'm 25 looking at, and they said, "Well, we can't do that until Kerr 8-14-06 71 1 County passes that." I'm not asking that you -- that they do 2 it; just give me an idea. If it is or is not passed, I'll 3 know where I'm standing. And, so, that's the reason I'm kind 4 of under the gun on this. I understand you're not. But, 5 anyway, I would urge you to try to do that at the earliest 6 convenience. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Chapman, we are under the gun in 8 the sense that if this is going to have budgetary impact in -- 9 in our next year's budget, we want to know that as soon as 10 possible so that we can figure out what impact that's going to 11 be, whether or not it fits within -- within our resources and 12 so forth. And -- and we want to know these things as soon as 13 possible so we can, in turn, make a decision as soon as 14 possible, which then gets you closer to your goal of knowing 15 what you -- what you need to do. 16 MR. CHAPMAN: Right. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it will -- I'm not going 18 to plan on voting on something like -- to do something like 19 that after our first meeting in September, so you've got -- 20 you know, if we don't have the numbers by then, it's off till 21 next year, in my mind. Just 'cause it does have budgetary 22 impact. Okay. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. 24 MR. JAGOU: Thank you, sir. Did you want to -- 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We're a little bit past our 8-14-06 72 1 mid-morning break time. Why don't we take a 10-, 15-minute 2 recess, and we'll reconvene after that. 3 (Recess taken from 10:34 a.m. to 10:50 a.m.) 4 - - - - - - - - - - 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order, if we 6 might. We were in recess for a bit. We've got a significant 7 amount of interest and possible participation, so I'm going to 8 take an item out of order and go to Item Number 14. Consider, 9 discuss, and take appropriate action to authorize the County 10 Judge to write a letter to L.C.R.A. regarding Rim Rock to Goat 11 Creek 1138 kV project in Kerr County requesting them to take 12 the shortest and least expensive route. Commissioner Baldwin? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, sir. Two weeks 14 ago, I tried, at the urging of some of my constituents, to 15 oppose the whole system, and I tried that with a resolution, 16 and a majority of the citizens in the county chose not to 17 participate. So, I was wrong there. And, believe it or not, 18 from that, some of the people that had asked me to do that, I 19 got a couple of ugly letters from them, saying ugly things 20 about me and this Court. And I thought, well -- I thought, 21 well, okay. I'm -- you know, I'm a nice guy. So far. And 22 thought I'd try again. So, I understand L.C.R.A. will put -- 23 basically put the program together, but the final word is the 24 Public Utility Commission in Austin will make the final 25 decision. And I got -- a little bird from that arena told me 8-14-06 73 1 that P.U.C. likes the words "shortest and least expensive 2 route"; that they would be more -- they'd be a little more 3 conducive to that. This kind of language is nicer and kinder 4 and gentler. And so I thought, well, that would be a good 5 route as well. Well, I've had the hell kicked out of me over 6 this one, so I'm pulling this, Judge, and this will be my last 7 attempt to assist the public in this issue. That's it. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We had a number of 9 participation forms filed on this particular issue. In the 10 interest of time, I would hope that those that are speaking on 11 the issue -- certainly, we want to hear their viewpoints, but 12 to the extent they are repetitive of others who have spoken, 13 we hope that you would condense your remarks as much as 14 possible. We don't want to put you in a position where you're 15 not heard; we want to -- we want to hear from everybody that 16 wants to be heard on this issue. Mr. Peter Mitchell? Are you 17 present, sir? 18 MR. MITCHELL: Yes, I am. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. If you'll come 20 forward, give us your name and address and whatever you wish 21 to say with regard to this subject, we'll be happy to hear 22 you. 23 MR. MITCHELL: I'll be brief. This is -- my name is 24 Peter Mitchell. I live at 244 Wren Road in Kerrville. This 25 whole proposal is a lot like a refinery; everybody wants what 8-14-06 74 1 comes out of it, but nobody wants the refinery in their back 2 yard. From our -- my point of view, and those on my 3 particular street, it's far too early in the process to make a 4 decision or make a recommendation as a unit. We need more 5 information. We're hopefully diligently gathering that 6 information before we can make any recommendation. And we 7 would appreciate it if you would not consider -- or not go 8 ahead with the provision as outlined. It's too early in the 9 process, and there's a -- a lot more information that needs to 10 be forthcoming. And that's my particular opinion. I open the 11 floor. Thank you. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. Mr. Robby Robertson? 14 MR. ROBERTSON: I wasn't sure what we would have 15 here. I'll leave these up on a chair, perhaps, to make sure 16 that we have proper reference. Excuse me a second. I have 17 copies of -- handouts of all this, which I -- as a matter of 18 fact, if you like, I might give them to you now, because it'll 19 have maps that you can refer to. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's enough here? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 23 MR. ROBERTSON: Judge Tinley and Commissioners, I 24 appreciate this opportunity. My name is Robby Robertson. You 25 may recall that I sent you a letter dated 31 May outlining my 8-14-06 75 1 concern about the routes A and C. My concern was a macro 2 impact on The Horizon, Saddlewood Subdivision, visual impact 3 on the Guadalupe River, and risk to the tax base of the city 4 of Kerrville and Kerr County. Such tax base is approximately 5 $100 million in the current County tax roll. A great deal's 6 been said about the shortest and cheapest routes. The 7 shortest route proposed -- of the proposed routes depends on 8 where you land. If you land up here and join at the end of P, 9 where it's P and T, the shortest route is A-C-P. However, if 10 you go out here and land at B, the shortest route is A1-B, 11 across the back and up there. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Robby, which one of these 13 maps are we looking at here? 14 MR. ROBERTSON: You can -- the next one up. The 15 next map. The first one is just a -- a grid I left you for 16 reference, so you can see what the thing is. The second map, 17 if you look at it, there are two mapped -- three routes that 18 are highlighted on this. One is A-C, and to the river, that 19 picks up P at the river and goes on across. The other one is 20 a green one, which goes across A, crosses The Horizon, goes 21 out across the field, goes back of Saddlewood, and comes out 22 and goes back in through here. That's this map right here, 23 colored map. Just as a matter of reference, I put in the back 24 map, which shows you a more detailed intersection of those 25 routes with The Horizon, so that you can see basically where 8-14-06 76 1 they are. So, basically, the shortest route which has been 2 proposed by them is the alternate route A-C-P, which is 3 6.68 miles. If the juncture is going to be at the west, the W 4 over there, the shortest route is 7.61 miles. And this, 5 therefore, says you need to decide where you're going to land 6 out here and put those substations and connect to that link 7 before you decide what's the cheapest and shortest route. 8 For reference, the -- I'm not sure it's shown on 9 this map. Yes, I guess it is, right here. There is a line 10 that comes right in here now that connects from Turtle Creek 11 and comes up here to feed that system route. And I put into 12 this write-up here that that transmission line is 7.6 miles 13 long, and it's the primary feed currently. I might point out 14 that one of the alternates in the -- like we're playing for 15 2003-2012, is, quote, that Alternate 3 is upgrading the 16 existing 7.6 miles there to a double circuit configuration. I 17 don't -- I'm in no position to offer an opinion about the 18 technical and cost justification for this project. I'm not a 19 transmission line guy. Or the alternate routes as it relates 20 to technical or operational issues regarding the construction, 21 or the right-of-way cost acquisitions, or the potential 22 damages awards. 23 In 2000, after about 45 years in this industry, I 24 retired here and built a home out in The Horizon. My last 25 major assignment, I was the president of a subsidiary who had 8-14-06 77 1 a contract to execute the United States high-level nuclear 2 waste disposal project. The multi-billion-dollar program was 3 to technically evaluate the options, design of the system, 4 taking all spent nuclear fuel rods from U.S. commercial 5 reactors and disposing of them in an underground repository at 6 Yucca Mountain at the Nevada test site. In this role, I 7 became intimately familiar with NIMB, Not In My Backyard. 8 Under federal law, the state of Nevada was funded to oppose 9 this federal program which I was managing. Now, I endorse the 10 right and applaud the right of individuals or groups to oppose 11 routes that have a negative impact on their property. I am, 12 however, appalled that groups would organize to recommend the 13 sacrifice of their subdivision neighbors' property rather than 14 their own. This is truly the dark side of NIMB. I do not 15 support this Commission recommendation, because in my 16 judgment, that route represents the most significant damage to 17 Kerr County and the City of Kerrville. That's it. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me ask you, if I might -- 19 MR. ROBERTSON: I'll leave these here. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: When you say "that route," are you 21 talking about either one of these, depending upon where it 22 ends up, shortest routes? 23 MR. ROBERTSON: I didn't say that. What I said 24 was -- and I've taken -- I want to be really clear on this 25 point, because I have been hammered. You think you guys have 8-14-06 78 1 been hammered. I've been hammered big-time, because I sent 2 that letter in the beginning, and I mailed out 92 letters to 3 the landowners along this Route C that comes out here. But 4 you -- right here, comes out here, goes across here, angles 5 out and goes down, goes right in front of Saddlewood after 6 passing in front of The Horizon. And the reason I mailed that 7 out was that people were unaware that that line was going to 8 be coming down through there, and so I mailed those letters 9 out and I asked those people, get the impact on your property 10 into the system for Mr. Palafox. That's what I asked. And I 11 personally said in my letter to the Commissioners and the 12 Judge that I believe that that Route A-C was the biggest 13 negative impact on the county. That's the only position I 14 took. Other questions? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir. Thank you. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. 18 MR. ROBERTSON: I'll leave this up here for whoever 19 might want to point. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Robertson. We 21 appreciate that. Mr. Roy Kilgore. 22 MR. KILGORE: My name's Roy Kilgore. I live at 118 23 Canter Lane in the county. Judge, Commissioners, I appreciate 24 the time, but the agenda has been changed. Mr. Robertson 25 spoke eloquently already on matters that I would like to 8-14-06 79 1 present to this Court two weeks hence. I intended to do that 2 today, but discovered that the courtroom -- the courthouse, 3 indeed, has no overhead projector. So, I have projection 4 images of this information and a great deal more information 5 which I think it would be good for you to see and for the 6 audience present to see, but we can't do that today. So, I'm 7 going to ask to appear again in a couple weeks, and somehow or 8 another, I'll show up with my overhead projector. But I, in 9 the meantime, would like the Court to consider coughing up a 10 few bucks of the discretionary money in equipping the 11 courthouse with an overhead projector and a few spare bulbs. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How about a drop-down 13 screen? 14 MR. KILGORE: Yeah, it would be nice to do that, and 15 one that was a little less fractious. The Sheriff almost got 16 thrown to the floor trying to deal with that one a while ago. 17 I would like to make one comment that I think probably wasn't 18 clear from Mr. Robertson's point of view. L.C.R.A. apparently 19 is, by rule, required to notify landowners who have property 20 within 300 feet of a proposed right-of-way center line. They 21 have no requirement to notify anyone else. That's what 22 Mr. Robertson realized and took measures to mitigate. 23 Virtually the whole north side of the river will be able to 24 see this line. Those constituents should have a voice 25 somehow. It either comes through the city or through you or 8-14-06 80 1 through both agencies. Thanks. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. Mr. Tom Michaels? 3 MR. MICHAELS: Yes. And I -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Come forward, please and let us -- 5 MR. MICHAELS: I want to thank you very much, first 6 of all, for hearing me. I'm going to make it quick and short. 7 As you've heard from the last two people, they basically have 8 got different plans, different issues. There's a lot to be 9 studied. There's a lot of issues that have to be brought 10 forth, and I think we need to have more from L.C.R.A. And 11 what I'm -- what I'm saying right now is that it's too quick 12 to make a judgment, and we should be studying this a little 13 bit further. Thank you. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mr. Michaels, could you give 15 us your address, please. 16 MR. MICHAELS: I have two addresses. My one address 17 is 135 Conestoga Trail, Hunt, Texas, which is up in the River 18 Bend area. And I also live on -- I have other properties on 19 Wren Road. Thank you. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wren Road? 21 MR. MICHAELS: That is correct. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Mr. Tom Torget? Help me 23 with the pronunciation. Did I get it -- 24 MR. TORGET: Torget. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Torget? 8-14-06 81 1 MR. TORGET: Torget. Thank you. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: If you'll give us your address, 3 please? 4 MR. TORGET: I'm at 264 St. Mark's Path here in 5 Kerrville, which is within The Horizon Subdivision. I 6 appreciate the opportunity to speak to the Court. I represent 7 a group called the Horizon Owners Protecting our Environment. 8 The Rim Rock station is within our subdivision, so, clearly, 9 we're going to be impacted in some way. We've got two dots 10 that we need to connect, and one of them is -- is within The 11 Horizon, so clearly, we understand that we're going to have an 12 impact. The L.C.R.A. has proposed three routes from the Rim 13 Rock station; A, essentially, B, and B-1. A goes north to the 14 northeast corner of the subdivision, and then goes in a 15 northwest fashion and connects to C. The Horizon Owners' 16 Association, which is the typical association of any 17 subdivision, took up the matter of whether they should take a 18 position with respect to the these varying possibilities, and 19 there was a rather heated discussion among the board members. 20 One of the board members threatened to sue the other board 21 members if they were to take a position. As a consequence of 22 that threat, the board opted to remain in -- in a neutral 23 position with respect to any of the options that L.C.R.A. has 24 so far identified. 25 As a consequence of that inaction by the homeowners' 8-14-06 82 1 association, the residents in The Horizon formed a new group 2 which is called the Horizon -- is called the Horizon Owners 3 Protecting our Environment, or HOPE. We circulated, a couple 4 of weeks ago, a -- a, you know, petition to go to Mr. Dennis 5 Palafox asking the L.C.R.A. to adopt one of its specific 6 proposals; that is, A and C. Most petitions say I'm opposed 7 to this or I'm opposed to do this. This one was different. 8 We said we want you to go ahead and use one of the routes that 9 you've identified, and at the same time, in doing that, we 10 want you to discontinue your consideration of Routes B and 11 B-1. B -- Route B would go all the way around the -- 12 essentially the eastern boundary and the southern boundary of 13 the subdivision. Route B-1 would go across the middle of the 14 subdivision and across our main road in and out. We collected 15 a lot of signatures. In fact, 83 percent of all property 16 owners within the subdivision signed that petition, which I 17 think is an overwhelming majority, and makes it very clear 18 that the people who live in that subdivision want Route A and 19 C. 20 A very similar petition was circulated among the 21 residents of Highlands Ranch and Bear Paw Ranch, and also the 22 Bear Creek area. And those petitions achieved an equal -- or 23 a very similar positive response from the people who live in 24 those -- who live in those areas, and those petitions have 25 also gone to Mr. Palafox. We think that the Court should 8-14-06 83 1 advocate the shortest and cheapest route. All ratepayers in 2 the L.C.R.A. service area bear the expense of this project; 3 it's not borne strictly by the people served by this 4 particular project. Therefore, every ratepayer within the 5 county has a stake in the decision that the L.C.R.A. 6 recommends to the P.U.C., which is the final authority. So, 7 shortest and cheapest we think is just good public policy, and 8 we'd like to see the Court get in the corner of shortest and 9 cheapest, because that's in the best interests of all the 10 ratepayers within the county. 11 I'd like to add one more point, and then I'll sit 12 down. One of the speakers this morning has told the Court 13 about his interest in protecting the interests of the county 14 at large by bringing light to the fact that Route C would be, 15 in his opinion, detrimental to the county. He certainly has a 16 right to his opinion. The rest of the story is that that 17 speaker's -- one of his very best friends, if not his best 18 friend, has recently acquired a lot of property in the -- the 19 area that would be traversed by Route C. That land is not 20 developed. He has plans, we understand, to, you know, develop 21 it, but it's not developed now. And it is widely perceived 22 that that is the primary driver for this previous speaker's 23 position against C. I also believe it's correct to say that 24 that speaker is on record with Mr. Palafox endorsing Route 25 B-1, which is the route that would be most disruptive to the 8-14-06 84 1 subdivision, going right through the middle of it and crossing 2 the main road in and out. So, I think it's important to 3 understand that there may be a little more to the -- to the 4 story about Route C not being the greatest thing for Kerr 5 County or for the city. I think there are some other 6 motivations. If you have any questions, I'll be glad to 7 respond. Otherwise, I thank you for your time, and would 8 encourage you to adopt the motion that Mr. Baldwin has talked 9 about. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Any questions for Mr. Torget? Thank 11 you, sir. We appreciate it. 12 MR. ROBERTSON: May I respond to that allegation? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Why does this not surprise me? Yes, 14 sir, if you'd be brief. 15 MR. ROBERTSON: Robby Robertson. Oh, very brief. 16 Point one. My opinion with regard to the A-C route's negative 17 impact on the county is unchanged. Always has been unchanged 18 from when it started. The fact that I happen to be friends 19 with McRae Energy owner, Rick McRae, whose Block 2 and 3 20 properties here, one would be decimated by the A leg, and the 21 fact that he has a piece of property back over here, off here 22 on the other side of Los Rincones Preserve, are irrelevant. 23 And this is -- this is perceptions which are not borne out by 24 fact. Two, I have had numerous discussions with Mr. Palafox, 25 his engineering people, and his supervisor. In those 8-14-06 85 1 conversations, I've only advocated that I thought that there 2 were only two routes out of that subdivision that would -- 3 would minimally impact The Horizon. One was the B-1 route, 4 only if it went underground that six-tenths of a mile. And if 5 you look at the -- the last page of our handout, you'll see 6 what I'm talking about, six-tenths of a mile underground. The 7 other one that I recommended to him is to go back out the way 8 you came in; i.e., Alternate 3 of that plan. That's all I 9 have to say. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. Mr. Dennis Palafox? 11 MR. PALAFOX: Judge, Commissioners, my name's Dennis 12 Palafox with L.C.R.A. My address is Post Office Box 220 in 13 Austin. First, I'd like to -- Commissioner Baldwin, 14 Mr. Robertson, if you think you've been beat on, I've been 15 beat on as well myself. But the first thing I wanted to say 16 is that the public involvement and public input is a very 17 important part of routing an electric transmission line, so we 18 appreciate the input that the County has and that all these 19 citizens have testified -- talked about today. In fact, I've 20 talked to -- either met with them personally or visited with 21 them on the phone or exchanged e-mails with all these folks. 22 So, it's a very important part of the process. I'd like to 23 explain to you where we are in this process, and that is that 24 when you're receiving all this public input -- and what we're 25 trying to do, we don't have routes yet. We have segments as 8-14-06 86 1 proposed on these maps, and we're taking input from the public 2 to determine whether these segments that were proposed 3 May 22nd, whether we want to keep them or modify those that 4 were presented, eliminate them, or add some new ones. And 5 once we do that, then that information will be used to develop 6 routes. 7 So, we don't have a route -- we don't have a 8 favorite route or anything like that yet. We're in the 9 process of developing that. And very soon, once we -- we put 10 these routes -- piece these segments together to form a route, 11 we'll be evaluating them for criteria according to the Public 12 Utility Commission regulations. Land use, environmental 13 criteria. LCRA will look at it from the standpoint of design, 14 constructability, maintenance, and cost. Once we do that 15 process, we will come up with a preferred route and alternate 16 routes that we will then submit in our application to the 17 Public Utility Commission. That application -- right now, we 18 anticipate submitting that application in December of this 19 year, and when we submit the application, we will notify 20 homeowners -- landowners within 300 feet of any of those 21 alternate routes. Those folks not directly notified will then 22 -- we have public notices that we'll put -- advertise the 23 project and the application once a week for two weeks 24 immediately after the -- the application is submitted. 25 We will also, in those notifications, tell the 8-14-06 87 1 homeowners and landowners who are directly affected how they 2 can become intervenors in this process in front of the Public 3 Utility Commission, so that's another opportunity for those 4 landowners then to become involved in the decision-making 5 process. And as Commissioner Baldwin pointed out, the Public 6 Utility Commission makes the decision whether or not this 7 route -- whether or not the project is approved and which 8 route is selected. So, in summary, I think we've got -- we 9 believe that this project is very important. It's necessary 10 for the folks served by KPUB and CTC out of the Rim Rock 11 substation to continue the reliable electric service they've 12 had, and to also provide an alternate source of electricity to 13 that substation. And it also is a benefit to the electric 14 grid system in all of Kerr County, so we feel like, overall, 15 this process -- there's a need for it, and it benefits all the 16 folks in Kerr County. So, appreciate the opportunity to talk 17 with you, and if you've got any questions, I'd be happy to 18 answer them. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Palafox, if I understand what 20 you're telling us, very simply, bottom line here today, your 21 best estimate is sometime in December of this year, the actual 22 various routes will be identified and proposed as primary or 23 preferred and secondary/alternate routes, and until then, 24 we're not sure where this thing's going to go? 25 MR. PALAFOX: That's correct. The preferred and 8-14-06 88 1 alternate routes will not be proposed until we get it in the 2 application. We'll be studying routes, piecing them together 3 and studying them up till that time, but until it's in an 4 application, we will not know for sure what's preferred and 5 what's alternate. That's correct, Judge. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: And you will be seeking 7 information -- maybe not up to that time, but up to shortly 8 before that time, from all the folks in the area that might 9 have some desired input? 10 MR. PALAFOX: That's right. We're still in the 11 public input stage, but we're going to have to start making 12 some decisions, again, as I mentioned, what to keep, what to 13 delete, what to add, what to modify. And it takes time. 14 We'll be doing a routing analysis, an environmental 15 assessment, which is going to take at least two months to do, 16 so in order to make the proposed application submittal date of 17 December, we're really fast reaching that time of taking 18 input. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just want to make a final 20 comment -- thank you, sir -- that there's still a lot of folks 21 out there that feel like this Commissioners Court needs to 22 take the place of P.U.C. We don't have any authority, don't 23 have any voting power, but I think it's awful nice of you 24 gentlemen to sit here through two meetings now to give the 25 public an opportunity to voice their concerns, and I 8-14-06 89 1 appreciate it. And that's that. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Commissioner, I'm glad you 3 put this on the agenda. I agree with you. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are you really? 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I agree with you; we 8 probably have very little ability to persuade the P.U.C. on 9 the final outcome of it. But I also think it's good and it's 10 appropriate that the various factions are having an 11 opportunity to be heard, and I think we'll hear -- hear more 12 about it. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: On the other issue of 15 shortest and cheapest, that's got to appeal to me; I'm cheap. 16 But cheapest, as you know, is not always best. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Correct. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, for whatever my opinion 19 counts, which is probably very little, I'm also hoping to hear 20 about the attributes of other locations, not just shortest and 21 cheapest. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other member of the Court have 23 any remarks to make? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The opposite of that is, 25 let's build it as long as and far as we can, and spend all the 8-14-06 90 1 money we can, you know. That's the other side of it. That's 2 all, Judge. Get me out of here. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I apologize, we had a 4 10 o'clock timed item that I had missed, and I'm going to go 5 back and pick that one up as well as an 11 o'clock, and 6 hopefully we can dispose of them shortly and get back on 7 track. At this time, I will recess the Commissioners Court 8 meeting, and I will convene a public hearing concerning the 9 abandoning, vacating, and discontinuing of Privilege Creek 10 Subdivision, as recorded in Volume 7, Pages 136 and 137, and 11 located in Precinct 3. 12 (The regular Commissioners Court meeting was closed at 11:20 a.m., and a public hearing was held in open 13 court, as follows:) 14 P U B L I C H E A R I N G 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there any member of the public 16 that wishes to be heard on the issue of abandoning, vacating, 17 and discontinuing the Privilege Creek Subdivision as that 18 subdivision is recorded in Volume 7, Pages 136 and 137? 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Seeing no one moving forward to 21 address that issue -- I see some moving the reverse direction, 22 but I see no one moving forward -- I will close the public 23 hearing concerning the action to abandon vacate, and 24 discontinue Privilege Creek Subdivision, as recorded in Volume 25 7, Page 136 and 137. 8-14-06 91 1 (The public hearing was concluded at 11:21 a.m., and the regular Commissioners Court meeting was 2 reopened.) 3 - - - - - - - - - - 4 JUDGE TINLEY: And I will reconvene the 5 Commissioners Court meeting, and I will take us to Item 11, 6 which was a timed item for 11 o'clock. It's a bit past that 7 now. I'll call that item. That's a request for a variance in 8 the requirements for an on-site septic facility for a dwelling 9 to be located at Lot 24, Wood Trails Ranch. 10 MR. JOHNSON: Morning, Judge. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Johnson. And your address, 12 please, sir? 13 MR. JOHNSTON: My address is 2235 San Jacinto Drive, 14 Kerrville. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. 16 MR. JOHNSTON: And I am building a residence out in 17 the county up on top of a hill. It's on top of a hill; 18 there's very little soil there, and so from the very 19 beginning, I determined I was going to make a very small 20 septic system demand. In other words, the demand on the 21 septic system. For example, I'm using a rainwater collection 22 system. I'm going to have a dry composting toilet. I'll also 23 use a gray water system so that I can use the gray water to 24 water my grass, garden, or anything that will grow on that 25 rock. So, the only thing that actually ends up hooked up to 8-14-06 92 1 my septic system is the kitchen sink. My personal habits are 2 that 99 percent or more of that -- more than that of my meals 3 are eaten out. For example, I haven't eaten breakfast in my 4 house this entire year, so the demand at the kitchen sink is 5 going to be very, very minimal. Yet the requirements from the 6 state don't allow anything -- or don't allow a reduction in 7 size if you have a gray water system or if you have a dry 8 toilet, or if you're not going to wash very many dishes. They 9 still say that you've got to have a system that's this big. 10 And that's the basis for my request. I don't want 11 to build a system this big. I am willing to build a system 12 this big. Their minimum requirements is for 180 gallons a 13 day. I and my engineer have designed a system for 40 gallons 14 a day. And at no time in the foreseeable future, at least 15 while I'm alive or my children are alive, because they'll 16 occupy the building after I go, will I ever get to 40 gallons 17 a day on the septic system. Now, the County Environmental 18 Health Department righteously turned down our request, because 19 the state rules make no allowance for a smaller system. 20 That's the reason for my appearance before you. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let me ask a question here. 22 Maybe you can answer, or Miguel or whoever. I think I 23 understand the state says if you're going to build a septic 24 system, you've got to build it this big, whatever that is. 25 Can you opt not to build a septic system? 8-14-06 93 1 MR. JOHNSTON: Only -- Miguel? 2 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, sir. If he's going to be 3 producing wastewater, you have to have a septic system. If 4 that's your question. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah, it is. And I'm -- 6 I'm wondering if that's really the case. Out in my neck of 7 the woods, we probably have a few hundred deer camps that 8 don't have septic systems. They opted -- opted not to have 9 one. 10 MR. ARREOLA: Well, they're required to have it. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: They are? 12 MR. ARREOLA: Yeah. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You probably don't want to open 14 that one up. (Laughter.) 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm not sure the answer is 16 correct. I'm not sure -- I know that if you're going to have 17 -- build a septic system, it has to be licensed and has to be 18 built to T.C.E.Q. standards, but I'm not sure you have to have 19 a septic system. And in the case of the way he's building his 20 house, he might opt not to have one. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can you have -- is an 22 appropriate -- I mean, can you have a holding tank that has to 23 get pumped? 24 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, a holding tank, if it meets all 25 the requirements. Yes, it's a possibility. It has to qualify 8-14-06 94 1 for that. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Instead of a drain field. 3 MR. ARREOLA: Instead of a drain field. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Arreola? 5 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, sir? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: What is the extent of our ability, if 7 any, to grant a variance from the state rules which we've 8 adopted for O.S.S.F.? 9 MR. ARREOLA: It's probably an attorney's question. 10 We are mandated by state law. We adopted minimum state 11 standards. If we want to do anything different than -- I 12 don't know what the attorney has to say to it. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's my understanding that 14 you can make the rules stronger, but you can't make them 15 weaker. 16 MR. ARREOLA: That is correct. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's my understanding, 18 too. Is there a provision in the regulations that -- 19 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, sir. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- that you would -- that a 21 holding tank could be an option, as opposed to a drain field? 22 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, it is, but it has certain 23 requirements and need to qualify. Basically needs to be 24 there's no possibility of installing a septic system because 25 of soil conditions or anything else. 8-14-06 95 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, it sounds like that is 2 the case. So, my question to this gentleman is, is a holding 3 tank a viable option? 4 MR. ARREOLA: He does have soil there. He has the 5 possibility of installing a septic, and the plans were for a 6 septic system. The only problem is, is the septic was 7 undersized. So, he can have a septic in there with his land, 8 but he wants it smaller than required. That is his variance 9 request, to make it smaller. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, we don't have the 11 authority to grant a waiver. That's pretty clear to us. 12 MR. JOHNSTON: I thank you very much. 13 MR. WIEDENFELD: May I speak on that? Or is this 14 closed? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: You got some input? You've obviously 16 got some expertise in the business. 17 MR. WIEDENFELD: Charles Wiedenfeld, Center Point, 18 Texas. I -- I did the design work and am representing 19 Mr. Johnson, and I'll take several exceptions. The state 20 septic regulations do grant the Commissioners Court the 21 ability to grant variances. And their designated 22 representative can do it also. And if he does not do it, the 23 Commissioners Court is our second line of requesting a 24 variance. And the variance, we -- as the designer, I have to 25 show to his satisfaction, and then if not to his satisfaction, 8-14-06 96 1 to y'all that I have provided equal protection to the 2 environment or equal protection for a septic system. I -- my 3 equal protection was that he is -- to the volume or the flow 4 of anticipated waste load of 40 gallons a day, it was he was 5 going to be using rainwater. Which I think, to me, 6 establishes pretty well that he does not have the volume of 7 water that would be necessary to use any more than 40 gallons 8 a day. And if he lives in the house by himself, and he's only 9 going to be having, at the time I did the design, a toilet -- 10 he said, "I'd like to have a toilet and the kitchen sink. 11 Kitchen sink," he says, "I rarely use, if I do, because I eat 12 out all the time. And if not, I could put it in a bucket and 13 clean anything, and we'll take it outside." 14 The other is a toilet. I figured if we flushed it 15 10 times a day, 1.67 gallons, that's 16 gallons, and that left 16 him another 24 gallons a day to be used for the septic system, 17 or 40 gallons in a septic. The other provision for equal 18 protection that I wasn't going to contaminate any of the 19 aquifer or contaminate the environment was that we're putting 20 this in a self-contained disposal field, an ET evaporative 21 system, lined ET. I went to the extent of going into a septic 22 drain field that would not leak, does not go anywhere but 23 evaporate. There is no impact on the environment, and so I 24 think I've met all reasonable and justifiable variance -- and 25 equivalent protection measures that are provided in the state 8-14-06 97 1 regulations. Furthermore, you know, the argument that the 2 county designated representative uses is that there is no 3 deviation for the -- the amount of waste load, and I take 4 exception to that. And I've shown him on Page 39 that the -- 5 in designing an ET system, the -- in the language in there, it 6 says the owner of the ET system shall be advised by the person 7 preparing the planning materials of the limits placed on the 8 system by the waste load selected. If the waste load is less 9 than required by Chapter blah-blah-blah of this title, the 10 flow rate shall be included as a condition to the permit and 11 stated in an affidavit properly filed and recorded in the deed 12 records of the county, as evidenced in Chapter blah-blah-blah 13 of this title. 14 We've done that. He's proposed an affidavit as part 15 of the planning materials that have been submitted. We have 16 met every requirement that the State has allowed and has in 17 rule, and I find it very hard, in this time of growth and when 18 we're in historic water level lows again, that the County's 19 going to take a position that a guy cannot conserve water and 20 -- and do the best -- and we ought to be promoting this type 21 of an atmosphere and concept rather than mandating he put in a 22 big septic system. Yeah, that's good for the economy, but he 23 has no intent -- and why is the County telling this man, 24 again, how to put in a septic system and how to live his life? 25 If he doesn't want to spend that on water, why does he have 8-14-06 98 1 to? It's just a promotionary concept that I -- I think, you 2 know, legislation -- last legislative session, the gray water 3 definition has been expanded to include many more items in a 4 household, but it has been very difficult to get anything 5 passed through the septic program at this time in expanding 6 the gray water use. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let me ask you a question, 8 please. 9 MR. WIEDENFELD: Sure. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Did I hear you say that we 11 don't have to grant a variance; that we have the authority to 12 approve a permit for the system you've designed? 13 MR. WIEDENFELD: Well, I -- taking the very 14 strictest interpretation, by me, it would still need a 15 variance, if I provide equal protection. And rainwater, use 16 of rainwater -- well, and this is a self-contained septic 17 system; it's not -- it's a little -- it's almost akin to being 18 a holding tank. But the cost-effectiveness of a holding tank 19 that has to be pumped out every -- you know, and alarms still 20 have to be put on it. You know, the cost of that over a 21 10-year period -- 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second question. It's your 23 opinion that this Court has the authority to grant a variance? 24 MR. WIEDENFELD: Most definitely. It always has 25 been. Y'all have more authority -- and the state has 8-14-06 99 1 delegated y'all full authority, and it's -- you know, you can 2 just take a look at the counties around you, how they -- what 3 position the county commissioners take. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with Charlie. I know 5 you find that hard to believe, but I agree with him that we do 6 have the authority to grant a variance. As long as -- you 7 used a term in that last tirade. 8 MR. WIEDENFELD: Equivalent protection. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What? 10 MR. WIEDENFELD: Equivalent protection. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Equivalent protection. 12 However, let me read from this e-mail from the T.C.E.Q., or -- 13 yeah, T.C.E.Q. It says, "No reduction in the size of an 14 O.S.S.F. system will be allowed when using a gray water 15 system." Based on the current rules, a reduction is not 16 allowed. That's the state saying that. So, you know, even 17 though I -- I really like what the guy's trying to do, I think 18 it's a neat, neat way to do things, but it appears to me the 19 state's saying, you know, can't do it. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, I don't know -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's a dangerous thing. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't know if you have 23 the patience to work this much further, but if the -- if the 24 County Attorney will tell this Court that we have authority to 25 grant this variance, then I'll support it. 8-14-06 100 1 MR. JOHNSTON: I have the patience. I have the 2 time. And I have also contacted Representative Hilderbran's 3 office, and hopefully we'll get something working on the state 4 level. There are other people out there like me. But I will 5 contact the County Attorney's office, and we can leave this 6 subject open, if you would like. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm good for that. 8 MR. JOHNSTON: Thank you. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. Anybody else on the 10 Court have anything to offer in connection with that matter? 11 Thank you for being here with us today. 12 MR. WIEDENFELD: Thank you. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's come back to Item Number 14 3. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Three. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Consider, discuss, and take 17 appropriate action on landscaping plan for the Union Church, 18 as presented by Kerr County Historical Commission Chairman, 19 Walter Schellhase. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Morning, General. 21 MR. SCHELLHASE: How are you doing this morning? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You thought you were early up, 23 didn't you? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Did you enjoy the morning? 25 MR. SCHELLHASE: Best free show in town. I have met 8-14-06 101 1 with Commissioner Williams and the Maintenance Department, and 2 I'm here today to present to you a plan that the Historical 3 Commission has planned for the Union Church building 4 landscaping program. I presented you a sheet that gives you 5 the cost. I'll give you a layout to give you an idea of what 6 we would like to do at the Union Church building. The reason 7 we're coming to you, we've been to Schreiner University, who 8 we have a lease with for the program -- or the property, and 9 they've signed off on this landscaping plan. We've met with 10 the City, received all the approvals we need, except for the 11 design of the actual foundation, of which we would like to 12 present them at a later date when that's been determined. The 13 plan is, basically, the orange area is currently paved at the 14 site. The blue area, we want to pave, build a gate, use 15 crushed granite in this area and build a fence from the 16 telephone pole where our service comes off Broadway down to 17 the end of the property. 18 We have one request from Schreiner; they would like 19 to redo our lease at the time this is done, prior to the 20 construction, to reflect these improvements that we're adding 21 to the property. The purpose of this, this is a small sample 22 of the original fence around the courthouse that was built 23 before the 1926 courthouse burned. We have located that 24 fence, and we would like to use that in the building of this 25 fence and gate around the courthouse -- around the Union 8-14-06 102 1 Church building. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where did you find the fence? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Get him to answer. 4 MR. SCHELLHASE: A residence owned by Mr. O'Brien. 5 And we have purchased that fence with funds that the Friends 6 have raised, and now are in the process of removing it from 7 the residence and having it restored. The program will be 8 done in phases. We will do the fence first, the entrance 9 gate, which is around a $28,000 cost; the gates at a second 10 phase of $16,000; the paving around $58,000, for a total cost 11 of around $114,000. This will obviously be at no cost to the 12 County. The Friends of the Historical Commission will be -- 13 once approved and signed off, will be raising the funds. The 14 reason we're bringing this to the Court, it will have an 15 economical impact on the Court in their budget, not in the 16 year 2007, but 2008, because of the additional maintenance 17 that will be required on the site. The landscaping will be in 18 accordance with city ordinances, so that there will be more 19 maintenance on the grounds. At the current time, the 20 Maintenance Department is taking care of the grounds around 21 the church, in front of the church, the church building. 22 Schreiner is doing all of the mowing on the area all 23 surrounding it. So, at this time, we would like to have 24 concurrence from the Court for us to proceed with this 25 program, with the understanding that there will be an 8-14-06 103 1 economical impact on the maintenance. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd move approval of the 3 Historical Commission's and Friends of the Historical 4 Commission's plan to landscape the Union Church building, as 5 presented by General Schellhase. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 8 of the project as indicated. Any question or discussion? You 9 indicate that there will be no budgetary impact upon the 10 County until 2008, which is not this coming year's budget, but 11 the subsequent year, and that's only for maintenance. The 12 actual installation cost will be handled by the Historical 13 Commission and their private efforts? 14 MR. SCHELLHASE: Correct. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or discussion? 16 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 17 hand. 18 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's move 22 to Item 4, if we might. 23 MR. SCHELLHASE: Before we leave that, on Union 24 Church Historical Commission, I'd like to present the 25 Certificate of Achievement that the Historical Commission 8-14-06 104 1 received for last year's work for an overall balanced program, 2 for presentation to the Court for display in the courthouse. 3 This will be the fourth year in a row that the Commission has 4 received recognition by the state for the work being performed 5 at the local level, primarily because of the oral history work 6 that's being done for the -- that are being recorded and 7 placed in the -- 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are we going to hang that 9 here someplace? 10 MR. SCHELLHASE: Yes, that belongs to the Court. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 12 MR. SCHELLHASE: Of course, that continuous work at 13 the Union Church building. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: We appreciate your efforts. Thank 15 you very much, General. If we're ready now, we'll call Item 16 4; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to adopt a 17 statement of support for the Guard and Reserve. Commissioner 18 Williams, I believe you asked that this be placed on the 19 agenda, along with General Schellhase? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir, and I'll let 21 General Schellhase explain. This is something we've done in 22 the past. We know the value of it. But I put it on the 23 Court's agenda so we could take official action. 24 MR. SCHELLHASE: As you recall, last year we came 25 before the Court and requested a proclamation supporting the 8-14-06 105 1 efforts of the Guard and Reserve, the employers' support for 2 the Guard and Reserve. This year, the E.S.G.R. has a new 3 program, which is a star-rated program, from one to five, 4 recognizing those entities that are employers in the county 5 that are supporting the Guard and Reserve. And looking at the 6 County has a whole, I can consider at this time the County 7 will meet a four-star rating. They won't make the five-star 8 rating at this time, because, based on what I see in the 9 employment policies, you are not going above and beyond that 10 required by law in supporting the Guard and Reserve. As an 11 example, if you have a reservist on duty, and he is called up 12 for 24 months of service, you do not provide a differential 13 pay for that 24 months, and in the event you did, you may rate 14 a five-star rating. If you were to offer those reserve forces 15 that are called to active duty -- if you were to offer their 16 spouse a job within the county somewhere to offset the 17 differential in salary, so that that reservist does not lose 18 any funds while on active duty, maybe you would acquire a 19 five-star. In the event you were to maintain that 20 individual's benefits for the entire time they're on active 21 duty, it may rate a five star. 22 So, at this time, my evaluation is that the County 23 does rate a four-star rating, and I'd like for the Court to 24 approve that to be -- I have presented and certified and ask 25 the Court to accept that. 8-14-06 106 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: General, how many reservists or 2 people do we have that are activated out of the Reserve in the 3 county? Do you know? 4 MR. SCHELLHASE: Out of the county? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. I mean out of county 6 employment. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: County employees. 8 MR. SCHELLHASE: I have no idea. I know of eight. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Eight that you're aware of? 10 MR. SCHELLHASE: Yes. And I believe there's more. 11 We have several employees in Kerr County that belong to our 12 unit in Fredericksburg, in Gillespie County, and that unit was 13 activated. So, those people were considered county employees 14 and went on active duty. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, thank you. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval of the 18 resolution. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 21 approval. Any question or discussion? All in favor of the 22 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 8-14-06 107 1 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 2 MR. SCHELLHASE: Thank you. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: At this time, I would like to 4 recognize our congressman, Congressman Lamar Smith, who's been 5 kind enough to join us today. Congressman? 6 (Applause.) 7 CONGRESSMAN SMITH: Thank you, Judge. Judge, thank 8 you for letting me interrupt your business here today, and 9 thank you all for the good work you are doing as well. You 10 remind me of the old days when I was once a county 11 commissioner long ago and far away, which was a great job, and 12 so I do appreciate what's going on here today. Judge, as you 13 know, I just wanted to stop by and say hello to you all, and I 14 don't need to reintroduce myself; I feel like I've got a lot 15 of friends here and a lot of friends in the county as well. 16 But because of the redistricting that has just occurred and 17 the -- and the ruling and map drawing by the three-judge 18 panel, I now am in the fortunate position of having Kerr 19 County back in the 21st congressional district, where it was, 20 I might say, for 18 years, until '03, when a previous 21 redistricting effort took the county out of the 21st district. 22 So, it's good to be back. And, frankly, you don't 23 know how nice it is to be back. Good people here. Good 24 memories here as well. And coming into town today, I was 25 reminded of a couple of things that we worked on years ago, 8-14-06 108 1 and hopefully -- I know there will be other things to work on 2 in the future, too. But it wasn't too many years ago when 3 the -- it was, oh, about five or six years ago when the V.A., 4 for example, was on the base closing list, and we worked hard 5 to get it off the base closing list and to keep it going, and 6 it's nice to know that it's still there and doing well. But I 7 also know that's going to be a challenge every year to make 8 sure that the V.A. continues as the wonderful facility that it 9 is, and caters to all the veterans in the hill country, and 10 that's something I'm going to be working on. 11 Another project that we worked on together and that 12 is a success story was the new post office. The new post 13 office is not so new any more; I think probably a lot of 14 people now think of it as the old post office, but there was a 15 time when the old old post office was too small. We were able 16 to get a new post office for Kerrville, and help the other 17 post office become the -- I think it's the art and cultural 18 museum that it is right now. So, there's a lot of good 19 memories of things that we've worked on before, and just glad 20 to be back today. Judge, let me offer to you and the 21 Commissioners as well, any time I can be of any help in any 22 way to you all or to anybody in the county, I certainly want 23 to pick up where I left off, and continue to be of every help 24 that we possibly can. It's a privilege and a pleasure to have 25 represented Kerr County and part of the hill country for so 8-14-06 109 1 many years, and I hope to be back in an official capacity this 2 coming January. And, of course, we have a campaign to conduct 3 between now and then. But, again, I appreciate the 4 opportunity to be here with you all today, and I'll certainly 5 let you get back to your more official business that I know 6 you have going on, but any comments or questions for me? 7 Again, I just appreciate the opportunity to be here. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's good for us to be back 9 in the 21st district as well. That's been home here for all 10 of us for a long time. 11 CONGRESSMAN SMITH: Thank you, Commissioner. 12 Appreciate that, Buster, very much. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We look forward to working 14 with you, Congressman. There are some issues we'll be talking 15 to you about. 16 CONGRESSMAN SMITH: Okay. For good or for bad, 17 there are always federal issues, and you can't get away from 18 being somehow connected, one way or the other, to the federal 19 government. I hope to be able to be of help in that regard, 20 too. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Welcome back. 22 CONGRESSMAN SMITH: Jonathan, thanks. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Welcome home. 24 CONGRESSMAN SMITH: Good to be here. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Glad to have you with us. Glad to 8-14-06 110 1 have you have us back in your stable, as it were. We hope to 2 talk with you further about current issues. 3 CONGRESSMAN SMITH: Thank you, Judge, Commissioners, 4 and we'll be in touch. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait a minute. Is he buying 8 lunch? (Laughter.) 9 CONGRESSMAN SMITH: Anytime. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What's so funny? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll see you shortly. Thank you. 12 Let's move quickly to Item 5; consider, discuss and take 13 appropriate action to post warning signs at Ingram Dam. 14 (Discussion off the record.) 15 MR. EMERSON: I guess, first off, I'm glad there's 16 not a bunch of people behind me to throw things at me. Ingram 17 Dam's been a recreational site for many years. A number of 18 you probably slid down the dam. But the problem that has 19 arisen is under the -- under the recreational statute, we're 20 pretty well exempt from any litigation, but there is one 21 question. And the question that comes up under that statute 22 is that we have to warn of known dangers. And given the 23 number of people that have come up to me in the last year and 24 asked who owned the dam and told me about their kids getting 25 hurt on the dam, I think it would be -- it would behoove us 8-14-06 111 1 very strongly to post a warning sign that warns people of the 2 dangers of recreational activities on that dam. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, what are the 4 recreational activities? 5 MR. EMERSON: As far as I know, all people do is 6 slide and swim off of it. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sliding and swimming. 8 Walking and running? Or hopping? 9 MR. EMERSON: I would presume, but I'm not out there 10 enough to comment on it. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can you draft -- 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Going over it in canoes and 13 kayaks like we did. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You can draft language that we 15 need to have Road and Bridge create the sign? You can come up 16 with the language that we need to put on the warning sign? 17 MR. EMERSON: Sure. It really just needs to be a 18 generic warning. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why -- why only Ingram? Why 20 not Flat Rock and C.P. dams? 21 MR. EMERSON: Any dam that we have -- that we own, I 22 mean, it would behoove us to put something on it. Ingram Dam 23 is -- Ingram Dam is the only one I consistently hear about. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There are inherent dangers 25 of anybody recreating, if you will, in the vicinity of a dam, 8-14-06 112 1 no matter where it's located. And I realize that Ingram 2 Dam -- for a long time, they used to slide down that, but -- 3 and I guess they still do, but there are also other issues 4 related to people being involved recreationally in the close 5 proximity of a dam. So, if we're going to do it, might as 6 well do it in all three of them. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I think it's appropriate for the 8 County Attorney to take a look at it and see exactly what kind 9 of -- of warning signs are necessary to protect us. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion that we have 11 Road and Bridge get with the County Attorney for the 12 appropriate language to post warning signs at all three dams 13 that have been referenced. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 15 MS. HARDIN: I have a question. On the -- he had 16 talked to me about installing a sign. We can only install 17 signs that meet state regulations for installation to put a 18 sign on the Ingram Dam. Where are we going to put it? I 19 mean -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Near the dam. You can put it on 21 the dam. I think you'd -- 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In proximity. 23 MR. EMERSON: This issue that Truby raised, I think, 24 is because of the state highway right-of-way running through 25 there, they have to conform to TexDOT standards. 8-14-06 113 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We also have a 2 right-of-way, Kerr County does. Anyhow, you all can work that 3 out. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know that TexDOT has 5 a right-of-way there. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Not that road right-of-way, 7 but we've got a road right-of-way that runs across theirs. 8 MS. HARDIN: Do we have a place in the soil that we 9 can install a sign? Or are we going to jackhammer a hole in 10 the concrete? How are we going install this sign? On the 11 dam? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm not sure. That's an issue we 13 can't resolve as we sit here now. 14 MR. ODOM: I'll take a look at that and try to come 15 up with something. But the question would be, we know that on 16 high rises, it's going to wipe out, so there is going to be a 17 continual -- okay. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other question or comment on the 19 motion? 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah, I've got a comment. 21 I wish we didn't have to do these kind of things, but I'm sure 22 we have to protect ourselves. Most of you probably know that 23 that's really a popular recreation place. If you go out there 24 this afternoon, that big parking lot at the Ingram complex 25 will probably be full of cars, and they're paying three bucks 8-14-06 114 1 a pop to park there, by the way, and they're renting tubes and 2 they're renting mats so they can slide down the dam. Just a 3 whole lot of mostly local people that use that for recreation, 4 and it's good. It's a good place for recreation. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't want to do anything 7 to inhibit such -- the use of such a good spot by -- by the 8 citizens. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other question or comments? All 10 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's move 15 to Item 8; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 16 abandon, vacate, and discontinue Privilege Creek Subdivision 17 as recorded in Volume 7, Page 136 and 137. We earlier 18 conducted a public hearing on this item and had no speakers. 19 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. I would ask the Court to take 20 action to abandon, vacate, and discontinue Privilege Creek 21 Subdivision as recorded in Volume 7, Pages 136 through 137, in 22 Precinct 3. It's also -- this was something that was 23 stipulated for Falls Ranch, that this one be vacated, and 24 that's what we set up over a month ago, and that's what I ask 25 the Court to do, so they can continue with the project. 8-14-06 115 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What are you going to do? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have to abstain. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for approval. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 6 of the agenda item to abandon, vacate, and discontinue 7 Privilege Creek Subdivision, as recorded in Volume 7, Pages 8 136 and 137, and located in Precinct 3. Any question or 9 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 10 your right hand. 11 (Commissioners Baldwin, Williams, and Nicholson voted in favor of the motion.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Let the record reflect that 16 Commissioner Letz abstained from voting. That motion does 17 carry. Let's move quickly to Item 9; consider, discuss, and 18 take appropriate action to open new portion of Upper Turtle 19 Creek Road, located in Precincts 1 and 4. 20 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. Previously, in another meeting 21 of the Court, I informed you that this was coming. And as you 22 know, the landowner at the end of Upper Turtle Creek Road 23 asked to move the road away from his house several years ago, 24 and he was told that he would have to construct a new road and 25 dedicate the right-of-way to Kerr County. Then Kerr County 8-14-06 116 1 would deed the old road back to him. He has paid all the 2 surveying costs and the construction of the new road, which is 3 completed. We would like to open the road, but have been 4 waiting for the surveyor to complete an as-built survey so the 5 title work can be completed. Tom Pollard is the landowner's 6 attorney, and we thought it might expedite the changeover if 7 we paid him to complete all the documents for the transfer on 8 our part too. That was saving a little bit of time for Rex, 9 but that's -- I know Tom, and he's done it in the past for us. 10 At different times, the Court has authorized him to do 11 different things. At this time, we ask you to allow us to 12 open this new section of road before the paperwork is 13 complete. The footings and all are there. I would like to 14 divert that traffic over; it's a perfectly good road. I know 15 the gentleman has called me, and I told him I couldn't do 16 anything, so -- without that paperwork in hand. I -- the 17 surveyor's just backed up and can't get it done right now. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is the County in any way 19 responsible for payment to have these documents drawn up for 20 the transfer? 21 MR. ODOM: I would assume on our part. I am 22 assuming that. I wasn't in that discussion before. You and 23 Frank were there, and I don't know what was said at that 24 point. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, we did not talk about 8-14-06 117 1 paperwork and transfers of titles and all that. I'm just not 2 clear why we're paying the landowner's attorney. 3 MR. ODOM: No. For our portion of the paperwork, we 4 have -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I know. I know that. What 6 I'm not clear about is what our portion of the paperwork is. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I think that would be the -- 8 MR. ODOM: The quitclaim of the -- 9 JUDGE TINLEY: -- the conveyance back of the -- of 10 the road that's being vacated. 11 MR. ODOM: Vacated. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: In lieu of the new road being put in. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the only thing I can see that 15 we might be responsible for. 16 MR. ODOM: Be responsible for. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And so we want to pay a -- 18 pay Mr. Pollard instead of waiting on the County Attorney? Is 19 that what the issue is? 20 MR. ODOM: Well, that -- I'm just throwing it out. 21 I'm just saying I don't -- I haven't had a chance -- 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that what he said? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what I heard. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 25 MR. ODOM: To answer your question, it's what it 8-14-06 118 1 says here. If you want to expedite it, if he's got to do the 2 work for him, he would also be able to do the work for us. 3 So, I -- that's up to the Court. I mean, I'm just throwing it 4 out. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If he wants to do it at no cost, 6 that's fine, but if not, we have to wait for Rex. 7 MR. ODOM: Okay, then. But I would like to open 8 this road. That's the only issue. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the only thing before us on 10 the agenda, is to open the road. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, and I'm for that as 12 well. And it's a beautiful road, and it's -- a neat thing has 13 happened out there. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that a motion? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not yet. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, okay. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I can't -- if I can get 18 Mr. Pollard's name out of this -- out of this deal, and 19 make -- and still make a motion to open the road, then -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can we open a road on property 21 we don't own? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Has the right-of-way -- 23 right-of-way been conveyed to us? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. That's what they're waiting 25 on. 8-14-06 119 1 MR. ODOM: That's what I'm waiting on. I'm 2 waiting -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How would you build a road 4 if the right-of-way hasn't been conveyed to you already? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He built it. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Built it on private property. 7 MR. ODOM: He built it on private property. It was 8 an agreement to do that. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 10 MR. ODOM: What we're waiting on -- 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There's two issues. It's 12 not just abandoning -- 13 MR. ODOM: I'm waiting on a surveyor to get the 14 documentation for the survey. Mr. Pollard can convey that to 15 the County. And then we have an old road, and we need to 16 convey that easement to Mr. Hardin. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Two issues. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think Mr. Pollard's -- 19 first of all, Mr. Pollard's -- I think Mr. Pollard could 20 convey one instrument that does both things. But that's 21 just -- that's between -- no, he says -- the Judge is saying 22 no, that can't be done. Either way, I don't think Mr. Pollard 23 needs to be involved. 24 MR. ODOM: I'm sorry I even brought legal into this. 25 I really just want to open the road. I take it back. 8-14-06 120 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you a question. 2 If I were to make a motion to open the road for public use, 3 and that court order passed here, is there any liability in it 4 for us that we don't own it? I mean, you have -- 5 MR. ODOM: I would assume that we could take the 6 same responsibility that we have on that old road. But the 7 newer one is so much safer than the old one. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: See, you have a public road 9 coming up to it, and then you have a private road and then 10 some public road. And we're going to open -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Let's get the County Attorney in 12 on this. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right. 14 MR. EMERSON: The only comment I would have, and 15 this is theoretical, would be that you're going to have a 16 quarter-mile section of road that's private road, that we have 17 no enforcement authority over, that's going to a public road. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: You think maybe it best to wait until 19 we've got everything in place and do it all at once? 20 MR. EMERSON: I believe that would be the proper 21 thing to do, Judge. 22 MR. ODOM: Solves the problem. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right. Then that brings 24 up one more question. Rex, do you think that we need to pay 25 Tommy Pollard to do -- to do this paperwork? 8-14-06 121 1 MR. EMERSON: I'm not going to comment on that, 2 except to say that I have -- I don't think I've been asked to 3 do it. But it was also my understanding, and I may be wrong 4 here, that when all this originally started, that it was at 5 the request of the property owner, so that he could move the 6 road out from between his buildings to a more neutral site, 7 and that he was going to cover all the costs. So -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, see, that was my 9 original question. I don't see why the County -- I still 10 don't see why the County's paying anything, what -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: We're not yet. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- what cost there is to the 13 County for our part of the paperwork. I don't -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I kind of agree with 15 Commissioner Baldwin that it's -- they ought to pay both -- do 16 it all. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: So, at this point, we're going to do 18 nothing; is that right? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't think I'm willing to 20 make a motion until we get it straight. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Why don't we move on to Item 10 so we 22 can go to lunch? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Consider, discuss, and take 25 appropriate action to consider alternate plat process for 8-14-06 122 1 revising Lots 16, 17, 18 of Riverside Park, and set a public 2 hearing for the same. 3 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. Mr. Manning has his house and 4 barn on Lots 17 and 18. They are very close to the property 5 line; therefore, he wants to adjust the lot line. The exact 6 amount of acreage for Lot 16 cannot be determined until the 7 survey has been completed, but it should be approximately .36, 8 which would leave 3 acres for that lot. Mr. Manning wishes to 9 sell Lot 16. I believe that the comment was, to pay for 10 college. So, at this time, we ask the Court to set a public 11 hearing for September 25th, 2006, at 10:30 a.m. And you have 12 the drawing and -- of this property. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I make a motion -- 14 MR. ODOM: This is in Precinct 4. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- that we approve the 16 alternate plat process for revising Lots 16, 17, 18, Riverside 17 Park, and set a public hearing for September 25 at 10:30 a.m. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 20 of the agenda item and setting a public hearing for 9-25-06 at 21 10:30 a.m. Any question or discussion on the motion? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is he going to retain three -- 23 there will be three lots when he's done? 24 MR. ODOM: He's -- well, he owns 16, 17, and 18. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, and there's going to be a 8-14-06 123 1 16, 17, and 18 when he's done? 2 MR. ODOM: That's right. 16 will be closer to 3 3 acres. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments? All 5 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We'll be in 10 recess until 1:30. 11 (Recess taken from 12:20 p.m. to 1:30 p.m.) 12 - - - - - - - - - - 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Why don't we come back to order, if 14 we might. We were in recess for lunch, and we'll take up the 15 next item on the agenda. Item 12, consider, discuss, and take 16 appropriate action on approving the Kerr County Juvenile 17 Detention Facility Policies and Procedures manual for 18 2006-'07. Mr. Stanton. 19 MR. STANTON: Hello, gentlemen. Texas Juvenile 20 Probation Commission is going to be at our facility 21 September 11th to audit us from the ground up. It's an annual 22 audit. This will be the first time that we've been in our new 23 building since they've come to audit, so we get the pleasure 24 of them starting at the bottom and working all the way to the 25 top. And part of that is to make sure that our policy and 8-14-06 124 1 procedure manual is correct and intact and the way it's 2 supposed to be. For the last couple weeks, I've been 3 rewriting the policy and procedure manual, taking out all the 4 postadjudication part of the -- the programs and stuff out of 5 the policy and procedure manual, and I've given it to 6 Mr. Emerson to review. I think he's about 85 percent finished 7 with reviewing it. The only thing that -- he's found some 8 grammatical errors and grammatical things he's correcting on 9 it, but what I'm asking is that if you guys could approve the 10 policy and procedure manual pending Mr. Emerson's final 11 approval, if there's not any -- not anything that needs to be 12 really changed in it. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll tell you, I was up 14 almost all night long reading that thing. And, you know, just 15 -- wasn't hardly any room in my packet for it. 16 MR. STANTON: I know. I'm sorry, Mr. Baldwin. It 17 just got finished. You don't want one? 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You can have mine. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Essentially, it changes 20 everything, makes it just preadjudicated only, correct? 21 MR. STANTON: It -- it's basically the same policy 22 and procedure manual that we had before that was approved by 23 the Board of Trustees, except this -- I've taken all of the 24 post policies and procedures out of the manual. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I see the County Attorney nodding his 8-14-06 125 1 head in the affirmative. 2 MR. EMERSON: Yes, sir. 3 MR. STANTON: If anybody wants a paper copy of it, I 4 have a paper copy of it too. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the one that you were studying 6 for hours on end, Mr. Baldwin? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. I gave it back to him 8 this morning. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there a reason to approve it 10 today, or could it wait until our next meeting? 11 MR. STANTON: As long as it's before September 11th, 12 yes, sir. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: September 11th, that's the 14 date they're coming? 15 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, if we get the hard copy 17 and just pass it around to each other's boxes, that's probably 18 the better way. 'Cause in reality, even though this is 19 high-tech and probably the proper way to do it, I can't read 20 this much on a computer screen. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How much -- 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: When do we meet in 23 September? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, no, we have a meeting -- 25 we meet in two weeks, the 28th. 8-14-06 126 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't remember this being a 2 big document. I thought it was fairly small. 3 MR. STANTON: Well -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, no, I'm sorry. You're -- 5 I'm wrong. I'm wrong. 6 MR. STANTON: I mean, it was about 200 -- it was 7 about 260 pages before. It's been reduced down to 124. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You were just reading the 9 summary sheet. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No wonder I couldn't get 11 through it last night. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: When you print it out, 13 don't print one for me. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think just circulate one 15 through the office, and we can do it at our next meeting. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Think that will work? 17 MR. STANTON: That's fine. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And everybody can read it. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: As a practical matter, as I'm sure 20 Mr. Stanton will verify, T.J.P.C. in large measure prescribes 21 what's in your policies and procedures manual, and it better 22 be there. 23 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir. It's all -- all based on 24 the resource manual that T.J.P.C. puts out. And each of the 25 policies that are in -- on this and in here are labeled in 8-14-06 127 1 accordance to the T.J.P.C. resource manual. So -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: So it even uses the state numbering 3 and organization system. Maybe that's what had you so 4 confused. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I guess so. I don't know 6 what it was. Great document. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We ready to move on? Let's go 8 to Item 13. Consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on 9 approving the per diem rate for the Kerr County Juvenile 10 Detention Center and approve Judge Tinley to sign off on 11 contracts with counties contracting with Kerr County for 12 secure preadjudication detention services. 13 MR. STANTON: Basically, this is the same piece of 14 paper that I presented you guys at the budget hearings that we 15 over -- we over-did. So far this year, our average population 16 is increased from seven and a half to ten kids per day. My 17 recommendation to the Court is that we raise the per diem rate 18 up to $90 a day. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 90? 20 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for the per 24 diem rate to be established at $90 per day for children at the 25 Kerr County Juvenile Detention Center for secure 8-14-06 128 1 preadjudication detention services. 2 MR. STANTON: We'll be -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can we -- excuse me. 4 MR. STANTON: Sorry. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can we put in that same 6 motion about you signing off? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And authorize County Judge to 8 sign. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And authorize County Judge 10 to sign same. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. That's part of it? All right. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or let me rephrase that. And 13 authorize County Judge to sign contracts regarding same. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any question or discussion on 16 the motion as amended and corrected? All in favor of the 17 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 18 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Mr. Stanton, let 22 me ask you, if I might, while you're here, the -- the census 23 -- the average daily census of ten -- 24 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: -- is that -- what period of time 8-14-06 129 1 does that cover? 2 MR. STANTON: From January 1st. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 4 MR. STANTON: January 1st until today. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. At what point was it when -- 6 when postadjudication were eliminated? Wasn't that towards 7 the end of March? 8 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir, but I'm just talking about 9 pre's. The average daily attendance is just from January, if 10 we went back till January 1st, and the average -- our average 11 preadjudication. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: That's just the pre population? 13 MR. STANTON: Just pre. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, good. Okay, thank you. 15 MR. STANTON: And as of today, we have 12 kids, 16 seven out-of-county and five Kerr County kids. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: All right. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: What counties, Mr. Stanton, are we -- 20 are we routinely obtaining children from? Are most of them 21 coming out of the 198th? 22 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir. The majority of them, yes, 23 sir. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, thank you. Let's go to Item 25 15, if we might. Consider, discuss, and appoint Lieutenant 8-14-06 130 1 Rob McCutcheon to the Criminal Justice Advisory Committee of 2 the Alamo Area Council of Governments to represent Kerr 3 County. Commissioner Baldwin? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. I'm just assuming 5 that everyone understands what this is. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I do. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I do. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Does Rob want it? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: He's consented to serve in that 11 capacity. He's been the alternate. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He was the alternate. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. I move we appoint 14 Lieutenant Rob McCutcheon to the Criminal Justice Advisory 15 Committee, Alamo Area Council of Governments, to represent 16 Kerr County. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 19 indicated. Any question or discussion? All in favor of the 20 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, at some point, we got 8-14-06 131 1 to come back and appoint an alternate for him. That wasn't -- 2 I wasn't asked to do that, so -- 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I do have a recommendation on 4 an alternate. But -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hold it to yourself. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I have some thoughts on that myself. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Y'all get together and fight 8 it out. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's fine. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Item 16, consider and discuss 11 performing State-required O.S.S.F. functions for the City of 12 Ingram and take appropriate action on resolution from the City 13 of Ingram authorizing Kerr County to perform such functions. 14 As the backup material indicates, I placed this on the agenda 15 after a meeting with the mayor and City Attorney for the City 16 of Ingram. They have a few instances each year in which they 17 have the O.S.S.F. applications submitted to them. Because of 18 the difficulty in having someone that's qualified, a separate 19 designated representative and so forth, they have asked if we 20 would consider being the designated representative for the 21 City of Ingram and handling their O.S.S.F. functions, the 22 consideration being that any fees that are generated out of 23 those applications and cases would remain here at Kerr County. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What about this memo from 25 Miguel talking about they need to relinquish their authorized 8-14-06 132 1 agent status? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, my only response to that would 3 be, if -- if the City of Ingram appoints Kerr County -- or 4 Kerr County as their designated representative, as that term 5 is commonly known, that would supersede, I would think, their 6 current appointment. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, it just sounds like 8 that this step -- by reading this paragraph from Miguel, it 9 looks like that -- that this step needs to be taken first. I 10 mean, I don't know. I agree with you. It seems like that's 11 the way it should work, but it -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let me see. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Here, you can have your very 14 own. Ingram must first relinquish their O.S.S.F. order with 15 T.C.E.Q. and vacate their authorized agent status. So, I'm 16 assuming that he's... 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Mayor Hiram Walker. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are we supposed to stand up 19 and bow? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 21 MAYOR JACKSON: Not hardly. According to Danny 22 Edwards, he spoke to T.C.E.Q., and the resolution we passed 23 should serve as that. In other words, it -- 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 25 MAYOR JACKSON: -- it accomplishes both functions at 8-14-06 133 1 the same time. So, as far as the person at T.C.E.Q. he spoke 2 to, this should be sufficient. If not, it's not a problem. 3 We can -- you know, we can draft whatever kind of document 4 T.C.E.Q. really wants. Council's fully on board, so it's just 5 a matter of formalities. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One interesting point that 7 Miguel raises. Because if you didn't do that, there are -- 8 then there would be two authorized agents, which is the level 9 above designated representative, and you'd have two. Kerr 10 County doing the work for you as authorized agent and 11 designated representative, but you folks would still be the 12 authorized agent. I'm curious about that. 13 MAYOR JACKSON: All I can tell you is that the City 14 Attorney spoke to the State, and that's what they said. So, 15 if there is something different, like I say, it's not a 16 problem on our end. We can draft it any way they want it. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How many -- Howard, how many 18 applications come in a year? 19 MAYOR JACKSON: I've heard two or three. It's not a 20 -- not a large number. There's not been a lot of -- of 21 building activity within the city. Most of it's been outside. 22 And then, of course, it's going to decrease as we get our 23 wastewater system online, so -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. Only reason I bring it 25 up is that, I mean, the county subsidizes that program. And 8-14-06 134 1 if it was -- two or three is not hardly worth fiddling about, 2 but if it's -- if it was, like, 100, well, yeah, it would be. 3 MAYOR JACKSON: I wish it was. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Are there any -- inside the 5 city limits, are there any large tracts left that could be 6 developed? 7 MAYOR JACKSON: There's a few, but none that I have 8 heard anything about anybody showing any interest in. Like I 9 say, once this wastewater system actually becomes -- we get 10 some pipe in the ground, I suspect that that's going to be -- 11 but we're going to push for connection to that system versus 12 septic tanks. I mean, it just doesn't make any sense. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's going to be a -- 14 that's going to change Ingram for the better. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's your anticipated 16 timetable on the sewer system? 17 MAYOR JACKSON: If we can get the surveyor, again, 18 to give us the data we need, I'm anticipating we'll probably 19 bid it sometime later in the year, so construction would 20 actually start probably in the spring or late winter. That's 21 what I'm hoping, anyway. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good. Sooner the better. 23 MAYOR JACKSON: If I had a backhoe, I could start it 24 sooner. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know anybody who 8-14-06 135 1 knows more about that stuff than you do, anyway. 2 MAYOR JACKSON: Well, this will be the first time in 3 my entire career that I've gotten to start on the very bottom 4 of it. Hopefully we can get it right. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: You're starting on this end, and 6 you're used to starting on the other end of it. 7 MAYOR JACKSON: I'm usually trying to fix decades of 8 somebody else's mistakes, so this time there's not going to be 9 anybody to blame but us. So -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you want the County Attorney to 11 take a look at this thing and make sure the legalities are 12 correct? Or what's the Court's pleasure? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, Miguel's here. He's here 14 now, so -- 15 MR. ARREOLA: Got in a little late, I'm sorry. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The question has to do with 17 authorized agent status. 18 MR. ARREOLA: Yes. We checked with T.C.E.Q., and -- 19 or I was talking to Mr. Jackson. We need to get the 20 authorized agent status to be revoked, basically, to move it 21 into the County. And I don't know where the process is there, 22 if they already started it or not. I e-mailed T.C.E.Q. I 23 haven't gotten a response yet to see where they are on that. 24 The other thing we can do probably is interlocal agreement in 25 the meantime, but I don't think we can just take over without 8-14-06 136 1 them first -- renounce to that. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I guess we better -- I 3 guess we better wait. I want to hear him tell me I can vote 4 before I better vote. 5 MAYOR JACKSON: Whatever paperwork or however -- 6 what form we need to put it in won't be a problem for us. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I guess Mr. Emerson and Mr. Edwards 8 can collaborate. 9 MAYOR JACKSON: That would probably be the best 10 idea, because this sounds like a legal issue to me. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Mayor Jackson, we appreciate 13 you being here with us today. Sorry about the delay. I know 14 you've been here all morning. 15 MAYOR JACKSON: Not a problem, but I do have other 16 commitments, so I'll see you guys later. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move on to Item 17; consider, 20 discuss, and take appropriate action on request from Blue 21 Knights to use Flat Rock Lake Park the weekend of October 21, 22 2006. That'll be 20, 21, and 22 October. I put this on the 23 agenda at the request of a representative of Blue Knights; 24 Lieutenant Rob McCutcheon, as a matter of fact. He -- he 25 provided us with some backup material in the back. I did 8-14-06 137 1 mention to him that they would not be able to exclude others 2 from the park that would normally use it for fishing or 3 whatever else may occur down there. Be much like the 4 situation where the Easter Festival was held and so forth. He 5 said that was perfectly acceptable. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 9 of the agenda item. Any comments or questions? All in favor 10 of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's move 15 to Item 18. Consider, and decide on a process for selecting 16 Human Resource Director and Administrative Assistant. 17 Commissioner 4, it looks like. Or 2, whichever. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I didn't prepare any 19 material on this, but I think what we're looking for here is 20 some guidance from the Court on what kind of process you want. 21 We have a number of applications that we're looking at, three 22 for the assistant job and probably a dozen or 15 for the 23 director job. Certainly, we're going to be screening those 24 down to -- to a few that we feel like are qualified and 25 recruitable. Where do you want -- where does the Court want 8-14-06 138 1 to be in the decision-making process? Do you want us to bring 2 you one candidate for each job and say, "Here's our 3 recommendation"? Or do you want to look at more than one 4 face-to-face? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think it -- the number 6 needs to either be three or five. Y'all pare it down to three 7 or five. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And bring those three or five 10 in here. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's kind of where I am, I 12 think. Three? Three. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Three is fine. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Five at the most. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I'd say a minimum of three. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Do we need any more 17 direction than that, Commissioner? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not really. I think you and 19 I can -- you and I can work to get it down to the three or the 20 five. What's your preference, three or five? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Three. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think we can work to get 23 it down to three, you and I. And then we invite those folks 24 in for -- we invite those three for the first interview, but 25 for the main interview after we select them, they're going to 8-14-06 139 1 come before the Court. We'll finalize that, get it down to 2 three. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let me make sure we're 4 saying the same thing. Commissioner Baldwin, do you want to 5 interview the three of them, or do you want to interview one 6 of the three that we -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I want to interview three. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I -- and the assistant's 11 position, you guys are going to handle that too? Or are you 12 going to get the new -- the new number-one man to be in on 13 that hiring process? 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think the time 15 constraints are that we're going to have to make a decision on 16 this. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It would be desirable to 19 have the new -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- him or her, whoever we 22 select, to do that, but I think we need that assistant in 23 here. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But if the -- I think we ought 25 -- there should be enough time -- well, when do you plan to 8-14-06 140 1 bring the three? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: When what? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: When are you going to bring the 4 three candidates in? 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Late this month. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, if that's the case, I 7 mean, I would think that then this new person may not be on 8 board yet, but they could at least participate in the 9 interview process for the number-two person. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 'cause I -- I mean, I would -- I 12 would certainly delay as long as we possibly can on that 13 second slot, because you sure don't want to have someone -- 14 well, you -- in reality, I think we need to kind of talk to 15 the lead person, find out what this second person needs to do. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: How many applicants do we have for 17 this -- the admin. assistant's position at this point? 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Three. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you think we need to give some 20 more emphasis to advertising that position? I know we have 21 advertised it in-house, but -- 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Not -- my preference is to 23 give first consideration to current employees. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's not just because 8-14-06 141 1 that's good for -- good policy and good for morale, but also, 2 you know, there's less risk taking somebody you know than 3 taking someone who writes a nice resumé. If we select someone 4 from inside, the risk of them failing is not very high. If we 5 take someone from outside, even though you think you know a 6 lot about them, the risk's quite a bit greater. So, I would 7 like to either select or eliminate one of the insiders before 8 -- before we go outside. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree with that. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else on that one? 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Good guidance. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move on to Item 19, if we 14 might. Consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 15 approve appendix for the Kerr County Subdivision Rules. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is on the agenda, I think, 17 at the request of Truby, based on the request of Rex. And I 18 think the issue is, we never approved the appendix. Though we 19 approved the Subdivision Rules, and I kind of thought it went 20 together, but there were some changes being made to the 21 appendix, so it's probably not a bad idea to approve the 22 appendix as well. I don't think there's anything different, 23 really. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: No substantive changes? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. And just for information 8-14-06 142 1 purposes, I don't know if I told the Court this or not. I 2 believe I did mention it to Rex, because there have been a 3 number of changes since we went through our first public 4 hearing after this had been out to the public and printed. 5 We're going to probably redo a new public hearing later this 6 fall, and then a whole new process of the exact same rules 7 again, and hopefully catch any typos and things during that. 8 And it's just a matter of -- we went through an awful long 9 process between the public hearing to the adoption phase, and 10 there were changes, even though I don't think any of them are 11 particularly substantive. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Technically, we're operating under 13 the new rules, and even were before their real formal 14 adoption, were we not? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct, we were. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: I think we need to go ahead and get 17 these approved, then, so that -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. The appendix, we need to 19 definitely go ahead and -- I mean, there's an argument that 20 they already were approved previously, but let's go ahead, and 21 I make a motion we approve the appendix as submitted today. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 24 of the appendix to the Kerr County Subdivision Rules as -- as 25 submitted. Any question or comment? All in favor of the 8-14-06 143 1 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 2 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 4 (No response.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, sir? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd like to suggest that 9 Number 20 move to exec. We're going to be talking about 10 reassignment of some people. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Specific people? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I assume you have no problem 14 with that, Mr. County Attorney? 15 MR. EMERSON: No, sir. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We can move on and finish 17 and come back to it. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's go to Item 21, if we 19 might. Consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on the 20 Kerr County management discussion and analysis for the '04-'05 21 audit. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is -- somehow, last year I 23 drew the short stick and got to write the thing, and Tommy 24 gave it to me again this year. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What do you mean, somehow you 8-14-06 144 1 got stuck with it? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, Tommy give it to me last 3 year. Tommy gave it to me this year. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You wonder how these things 5 land in your -- with you? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You volunteered, come on. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Of course he did. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Anyway, I don't think I'm really 9 ready to adopt it. We need to do it tomorrow -- in the -- not 10 tomorrow, at our next meeting. The -- what I put for here is 11 the -- and I think probably the most important part is the 12 budget financial highlights, the bullets all here. The tables 13 have not been incorporated into it yet, due in part to some 14 e-mail glitches, some today, and there's one section I still 15 need to work on the verbiage a little bit. I will say it's -- 16 it is a very confusing budget year, and the reason is, the 17 Juvenile Detention Facility was listed as a proprietary fund; 18 therefore, it was excluded last time from all of the 19 governmental activities. This year, because it's now owned by 20 Kerr County, not by the facilities corporation -- or not this 21 year, but 2004-2005. Therefore, it was combined, so the 22 changes in the categories are -- what you kind of track from 23 year to year, are very large in some instances. And I've 24 tried to -- you know, so, you'll -- if someone reads this -- 25 if anyone reads it, it's probably mentioned about 50 times 8-14-06 145 1 that the Juvenile Detention Facility is the reason why these 2 numbers look so weird. 3 I've also asked Tommy to go through and really check 4 the numbers, because when I was going through the audit, I 5 want to make sure that I picked up the -- I understood what 6 the -- you know, the audit, 'cause it was confusing. And 7 there's -- some of the numbers I was a little bit unclear 8 about, such as what was the actual loss at the detention 9 facility during this period. I came up with, I think, 10 1.12 million, but that could vary up or down depending on 11 exactly how you calculate that loss. The -- this was -- it 12 was a good reminder of how bad things were back then. We've 13 come a long way and our financial position has improved quite 14 a bit to where we are -- at the end of this year, I think the 15 next -- the audit for the year we're currently in is certainly 16 going to have some problems, but I think, you know, it's kind 17 of a two-year hit from the juvenile facility. 18 The good news is that if you look at this -- and I'm 19 just going to give you some comments. The long-term debt 20 situation is greatly improved, a lot more so than I really 21 thought it would be. It was, at the beginning of the year -- 22 or beginning of 2004, about a little over $10 million; it's 23 down to $4 million something now, almost $5 million. But we 24 almost cut it in half, due to the refinancing and paying some 25 things off -- and I shouldn't say refinancing; after the 8-14-06 146 1 agreement to do what we did with the bondholders. So, our 2 long-term debt situation looks really good, in my opinion. 3 Our reserves are pretty good, coming back up. So, this is 4 kind of, I think, the worst year that we're going to hit from 5 the audit standpoint, but it is rather confusing. And on the 6 highlights, I really didn't -- when I was thinking back to 7 what happened in 2004-2005, it was dominated by the juvenile 8 facility. I don't really recall that we spent a whole lot of 9 time or money on other specific projects, other than just 10 general operations. So, if anything was left off of those 11 bullets, remind me and I'll be glad to add some. But, anyway, 12 this will be back on our agenda next time. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Where do I see the reserves 14 on here? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, there's -- there's a bunch 16 that you don't have here. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's a bunch of the charts. 19 But the -- it's the -- the bullet down the second from the 20 bottom, the fund balance. They're -- the reserves are 21 25 percent. Doesn't give you a dollar figure here -- well, it 22 does; it's $3 million. But it's a -- once the tables are 23 included, some of those things are a little bit more apparent. 24 This is just the first draft. Tommy's going through it, like 25 I said, and making some more adjustments. 8-14-06 147 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Nice work, Number 3. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I haven't got it done yet; I 3 wouldn't say that yet. You might wait till we get the final 4 version out. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's such a big job, I 6 think we ought to rotate it around, and Number 4 do it next 7 year. (Laughter.) 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, I think we ought to leave 9 it with Number 3. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Good. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Could end up coming to Number 1, 12 right? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I don't like the 14 rotation thing. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm with you. I veto that 16 idea. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, anyway, there was another 18 number -- 19 JUDGE TINLEY: This may be something in which I have 20 leverage, I suddenly discovered. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, anyway, Tommy and I will go 22 through it again and try to make sure all the numbers are 23 correct. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good job. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's basically the same formula 8-14-06 148 1 we used last year. But we're getting close, Tommy, aren't we? 2 We got something -- he finally got something after he's been 3 pestering me for two months. I apologize for procrastinating 4 so long. 5 MR. TOMLINSON: As soon as I get your e-mail. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Once it gets unlocked. All 7 right. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's all. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Why don't we go ahead and do our 11 reports, then, if we don't have anything further on that 12 particular item. Do we have a report from Animal Control? 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No, sir, we won't have one 14 today. We're short-handed over there today, and Janie is 15 covering up, taking care of animals, so I told her we would 16 pass on it today, but things are going well. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. What's the staffing level over 18 there now, Commissioner? 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We're up to full five 20 complement. We just happened to have one on vacation today. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Extension Office. I see 22 they're here. 23 MS. OSTEEN: Good afternoon. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Did Roy drop this on you now? 25 MS. OSTEEN: Yes, he did, but it's okay. Good 8-14-06 149 1 afternoon, Judge and Commissioners. This is my pleasure to be 2 here today, and I wanted to update you on a few of the 4-H 3 activities and the Extension Office activities. In July, 4 July 6th, 4-H held a fishing derby, and at that fishing derby 5 there were 102 day care children that participated, with 40 6 junior and senior 4-H council members, and then there were 7 also nine adult volunteers. July 10th through the 14th, 4-H 8 held a mini-camp, and that mini-camp was held for Salvation 9 Army kids, and there were 46 participants; 19 then junior and 10 senior council teen leaders were there. July 20th, Roy and I 11 attended the District Record Book judging in Helotes, and at 12 that time we had 13 of our 4-H members submit record books to 13 the district. Two of those record books were advanced to 14 state, and from that, we had one of our members who got second 15 place in state with her leadership record book, and another 16 got ninth place at state with his swine record book. 17 July 23rd through the 26th, 4-H kids went to State 18 Congress Conference, and there were five teen leaders there. 19 August 13th, which was yesterday, we all attended the officer 20 and council training which was held at the Mo Ranch, and at 21 that we had 38 4-H'ers participate; 16 leaders, and then we 22 also had 11 adult volunteers. Coming up in September, Roy is 23 having -- or hosting an estate planning seminar, and this is 24 going to be September 11th from 2 to 6 p.m. at the Kerr County 25 Youth Exhibition Center. During this estate planning seminar, 8-14-06 150 1 he will have someone speak about the land values and changes 2 in land values that are relative to the hill country. And he 3 will also have someone there who will be talking about estate 4 planning, and with that, discussing changes in estate laws and 5 estate planning relative to wills and trusts. On August 27th, 6 we'll be having our 4-H awards banquet. And that will be at 7 6 p.m., and we'd like to invite all of you to attend, and each 8 one of you will be receiving an invitation to this banquet. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What was the date? 10 MS. OSTEEN: August 27th, and that's at 6 p.m. 11 MR. WALSTON: Is that the 26th? Should be a 12 Saturday. 13 MS. OSTEEN: It's a Saturday. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 26th. 15 MS. OSTEEN: Okay, thank you. Don't want to give 16 you the wrong date. But you will each be receiving an 17 invitation, so we'd like you to attend that awards banquet. 18 And our registration for 4-H begins in September. And at that 19 time, kids will be registering for their 4-H projects. I will 20 be training adult leaders in the food and nutrition project, 21 and my training will begin on August 29th. September 29th, 22 I'm having a lock-in, which is something new in Kerr County, 23 and this will be a lock-in for youth participating in the food 24 and nutrition program and for the adult volunteers. So, we'll 25 be learning food and nutrition exercises and games and 8-14-06 151 1 activities. On September 9th, we're having the Hill Country 2 Professional Child Care Providers conference, and that's here 3 in Kerrville. And this is sponsored by myself and other 4 Family and Consumer Science Extension Agents in the 5 surrounding counties, and we'll be providing training for 6 child care providers. And we expect at that time about 200 7 participants to be trained. 8 Personally, I will be implementing in Kerr County 9 the Better Living for Texans nutrition program, and I'll be 10 doing that at some of the senior centers, at WIC, and through 11 our Head Start program, so I'll be able to target youth and 12 seniors and then kind of in-between audiences. And this is a 13 nutrition program. In October, I will be attending training 14 for the Do Well, Be Well With Diabetes program, and I'll have 15 a date to implement that coming at the beginning of 2007; 16 sometime in January, once I go through the training for that 17 program. Beginning Monday, August 21st, I will be submitting 18 weekly articles to the Kerrville Daily Times newspaper, and my 19 weekly articles will be dealing with family and youth issues 20 that kind of need to be addressed here in Kerr County. So, 21 those are some of the things that we've experienced here in 22 Extension and that we have coming up in our Extension Office. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I want to know about your 24 nutrition program. 25 MS. OSTEEN: Yes. 8-14-06 152 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You said -- I heard you say 2 WIC and several other places in town. Now, what if my name 3 was Joe Blow. 4 MS. OSTEEN: Yes? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And Joe Blow wants to go and 6 take your course or attend your seminar. May I do that? 7 MS. OSTEEN: You certainly may. And what -- what I 8 can do is offer nutrition programs to any organization, any 9 special interest group, anything that, you know, would like me 10 to offer nutritional programs. I can do that. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can I walk in -- I'm a sacker 12 over at H.E.B., but I'm interested in -- interested in this 13 thing. Can I walk into the WIC office that day you're doing 14 that, and -- 15 MS. OSTEEN: I don't think you can walk in -- just 16 walk into the WIC office. I think -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You watch. I'll show you how 18 to do it. 19 MS. OSTEEN: Well, then, you can. But I think it's 20 for that special interest group. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. Okay. 22 MS. OSTEEN: What I will target for that group is 23 dependent upon that group's needs. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 25 MS. OSTEEN: So, if -- let's say people at H.E.B., 8-14-06 153 1 if they want, you know, a nutrition program, then I'm going to 2 come up with a nutrition program that focuses specifically on 3 what their population wants. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. Okay. 5 MS. OSTEEN: So, it's open -- you know, the 6 program's open to any audience. But my -- my job is to 7 specialize that for each and every audience. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. You answered my 9 question. Very good. Thank you. 10 MS. OSTEEN: All right. Good. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 12 MS. OSTEEN: Any other questions? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do have one more. Roy is 15 going to do an estate planning seminar dealing with land 16 values. That could get really interesting. 17 MR. WALSTON: Yeah. We've got Dr. Charles Gilliland 18 with the Real Estate Center at Texas A & M, and he does 19 evaluations and research based on -- and keeps up with the 20 land values and how it's changing. And that's -- I felt like 21 that would be something that, in tying in with the estate 22 plans, would be something that -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 24 MR. WALSTON: -- anybody with any property may not 25 realize that their changing land values are changing the 8-14-06 154 1 effects on our estate plans. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the date of that, Roy? 3 MR. WALSTON: September the 11th, from 2:00 to 6:00. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Hard to forget. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, it's hard to forget 6 that one. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you have a copy of that report 8 that was released out of A & M, probably about six weeks ago 9 now, relative to Texas land values? 10 MR. WALSTON: The only thing I've seen was the -- 11 that they had, like, 2001. I didn't see anything recent. I 12 haven't seen anything. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: My understanding, about a month or a 14 little bit more ago, there was a report released from A & M 15 about land values in Texas, broken down into metropolitan, 16 urban, and rural, in which they -- in which they ranked land 17 values, as it were. 18 MR. WALSTON: I'm sure he does. I mean, I -- like I 19 say, I haven't seen that. I've tried to look. And I -- I 20 haven't asked him, and particularly what his most recent 21 research is. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Would you be kind enough to make 23 inquiry, see if you could get that? 24 MR. WALSTON: Yeah. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I understand that there was one just 8-14-06 155 1 about a month or so ago. 2 MR. WALSTON: Okay. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: I'd be interested in seeing it. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I've seen some prices 5 recently in west Kerr County on raw land, open land building 6 sites, whatever, and it's stunning the increase in asking 7 prices or selling prices. I'm talking about in 10 years, it's 8 gone up six to eight times. Just -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, it's amazing. Large 10 tracts are -- I mean, used to were insulated for a long time. 11 They now are going for almost as much as what I used to 12 consider a small tract would go for. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The report the Judge is talking 14 about shows that Kerr County has the highest median prices and 15 land values anywhere in the state. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: For rural counties. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah, for rural counties. 18 Well, coming in second is Travis County, and we're above all 19 other counties. 20 MR. WALSTON: And they're starting to be an added 21 attraction to those larger acreage lands, so that's what's 22 pulling those -- 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Y'all remember that 24 subdivision we approved there on 1340 across from Wagon Wheel 25 on the Guadalupe, 5 and larger acre tracts, the 5-acre tracts 8-14-06 156 1 are being offered at 72,000. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Wow. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And on sale. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, yeah. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what's scary. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Roy, what's happening with 7 the Master Gardener program out there? 8 MR. WALSTON: Our Master Gardeners -- if y'all 9 happened to be out that way this weekend, we are in the 10 process -- they put in the irrigation system into our 11 demonstration area. We're in the process of getting that 12 finalized here in the next couple of days, and trying to get 13 some -- some grass established just as soon as we can. We've 14 got some squares that we're looking at getting put in, and 15 then we're going to have, I think, 11 different varieties of 16 about -- there's actually five varieties with about two or 17 three different varieties within each type. So, we'll have a 18 lot of -- and these are -- these are varieties that people can 19 use here in Kerr County where they can look and -- and see 20 some landscape plants there on-site, as well as some turf, 21 different turf grasses that are recommended. So... 22 JUDGE TINLEY: A lot of dirt was moving there this 23 weekend, wasn't it? 24 MR. WALSTON: Yeah. Yeah. They were -- they were 25 going full strength, and I think they had a lot of help, 8-14-06 157 1 anyway. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: You were using community service 3 workers out of the 216th? 4 MR. WALSTON: Uh-huh. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Didn't look to me like that dirt came 6 from right there on-site, either. 7 MR. WALSTON: Well, it -- it's pretty good dirt 8 there. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, it was. That's why it didn't 10 look to me like it came right on-site. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Good, black dirt. 12 MR. WALSTON: I was kind of surprised that there was 13 actually that good of dirt there, but it's all what's been 14 there. That's what's there. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure looked good to me. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I want to ask a question of 17 Roy. I want to ask it through Commissioner Letz, through him 18 to Roy. 19 MR. WALSTON: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What would be -- would there 21 be any value in having the Master Gardener program -- 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Talk a little bit louder; Roy 23 can't hear you. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Would there be any value in 25 having the Master Gardener program do a landscaping plan for 8-14-06 158 1 the courthouse grounds? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There would be. Did you 4 hear that question, Roy? 5 MR. WALSTON: I got it. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 7 MR. WALSTON: And I don't think there would be a 8 problem at all doing the plan. I -- I know that, you know, 9 we've got folks that would be glad to help plan that out. As 10 far as actually doing the manpower, I don't know that we could 11 -- you know, actually -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why don't you suggest it so 13 we don't have to do a court order? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The plan -- the plan's all we 15 need. 16 MR. WALSTON: We can take care of that, I think. I 17 don't think that's going to be a problem. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The whole city block. 19 MR. WALSTON: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And the Sheriff's Office. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And the Sheriff's Office. 22 MR. WALSTON: We may have to develop a couple of 23 them. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And it can -- and much of what's 25 there can go. 8-14-06 159 1 MR. WALSTON: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: In that current landscape plan. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And the labor can be worked 4 out. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We'll find the labor. 6 MR. WALSTON: I know I had visited with them in the 7 past. Possibly, you know, doing some things like this would 8 be something that might be in their realm, and that's not -- I 9 don't think that's a problem. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Really just a -- yeah. 11 MR. WALSTON: You know, getting a plan and basically 12 giving you some ideas and suggestions, and then y'all can 13 change it and -- be glad to. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I want to correct the 15 record. I had a senior moment. I may have said those 5-acre 16 lots were going for 72,000. If I said that, they went for 17 365,000. 72,000 an acre. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: That sounds more in line. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I was going to say, 70,000, 20 seems like that's not so bad. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You'll take them for that? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll take them. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That other price is a little bit 25 steep. 8-14-06 160 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I did misspeak, didn't I? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Osteen, thank you for your 3 report. We appreciate it. 4 MS. OSTEEN: All right. Thank you for your time. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 6 MS. OSTEEN: Thank you. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Environmental Health. 8 MR. ARREOLA: Good afternoon again. I got some 9 reports, one for the clerk also. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pie chart time. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 12 MR. ARREOLA: The first page in your report, it's 13 the O.S.S.F. activity. It's just the most important numbers; 14 I didn't want to put too many things in there this time. It's 15 just what dictates our activity. Basically, the number of 16 permits compared to last year, we're pretty close. A little 17 lower -- just a bit lower. The revenue, a little higher, but 18 again, pretty close to it. Complaint investigations, we're 19 way low, and that is basically complaints that we have to 20 investigate that are -- that come from the public, whatever 21 the public reports to us. So, this year it's lower, and that 22 is positive. That is good. The number in the middle there, 23 the aerobic program units, that's the number of units we have 24 on the ground. This time last year, it was 1,279. We went up 25 to 1,382 for this year. It's not a big, big increase. 8-14-06 161 1 They're going to keep increasing, but it's not major. I don't 2 know if you have any questions on that part. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, it looks like about 4 30 percent of your units going in are aerobic if you end up 5 with new permits of 198 and the aerobics went up. 6 MR. ARREOLA: 100 -- yeah. Well, that's 50 percent. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, 50 percent, then. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I may be -- I may be a little 9 goofy, but I thought that the aerobic program was going to go 10 the other way. 11 MR. ARREOLA: Well, there's a lot of properties that 12 don't have soil, and that's what it's -- where this comes up. 13 You know, whenever you get there and you don't have the soil, 14 then you have to have something like that. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, I mean, there -- I mean, I 16 understand that, Miguel, but I also know that there are 17 systems that may cost more going in that are not aerobic. 18 MR. ARREOLA: Correct. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But you're, long term, over the 20 life of the system, going to get a lot of savings out of them, 21 and certainly a lot less headaches. And I know this isn't 22 your job to change them. Is it the -- are the installers 23 selling the aerobics still? Or is it the -- I mean, are they 24 not -- the public is not being properly informed by the 25 installers? 8-14-06 162 1 MR. ARREOLA: We are doing every effort to inform 2 them. Every time they come over, we'll give them a list of 3 options, the whole list, everything they have. Most of the 4 time, the aerobic is the most economic. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And it's the cheapest front-end. 6 MR. ARREOLA: And that's why, I guess, it gets done. 7 But we're looking -- we're seeing a lot of systems that is 8 supposed to get aerobic, but they go some other way. Gets a 9 little more expensive the first time, but over the years, you 10 make them up. Some modifications that we're looking at in our 11 department based on state law, or whatever's going on in the 12 county, the number will be -- maybe with the city of Ingram 13 O.S.S.F. program, if we get it, we're going to have to adjust 14 for that. It's not a major adjustment, but it's some 15 adjustment that we need to make to take over that program. 16 The other one is the aerobic units, maintenance by homeowners. 17 Until the beginning of this month, it was not allowed to do 18 maintenance on your own. If you are a property owner and you 19 have an aerobic unit, you couldn't do it, but now the law 20 changed and you can. So, you can do yours. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Now we may have a reduction in 22 aerobic systems. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I thought you could always do 24 it. 25 MR. ARREOLA: No. No, you have to hire someone with 8-14-06 163 1 a special license to do it. Now you can. And as a homeowner, 2 you got to get some certifications to do it, but you can now. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: You do have to get some 5 certifications? 6 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, sir. They're easy. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: When was all that effective? 8 MR. ARREOLA: August 3rd. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: September 1? 10 MR. ARREOLA: This month. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 12 MR. ARREOLA: That's basically on 285.7, the new 13 laws I'm giving you on the bottom there. And also, the 14 30.244. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Miguel, I want to go back up 16 to potential modifications if we get the city of Ingram. What 17 kind of modifications are you talking about -- are you 18 thinking about? 19 MR. ARREOLA: The main problem is database. There 20 is no data in a central place where we can locate -- we're 21 going to need to go through each file manually and look at it. 22 We'd like to have it in the same system we have ours, so we're 23 going to have to take some time and put them in a database. 24 Most of them are going to be probably abandoned eventually, 25 but in the meantime, we got to have a record of what we have. 8-14-06 164 1 So, that'll be one. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And you have manpower to do 3 that? Or -- 4 MR. ARREOLA: We -- we can do it. If we don't get 5 extremely busy, we can do it the way we're doing right now. I 6 don't see a problem to do just that, to do the conversion to 7 our database. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, there is not any kind of 9 records in your computer that would keep somebody in jail from 10 seeing -- I mean, someone from jail could go in there and do 11 data entry? 12 MR. ARREOLA: Well, you probably need to know what 13 you're doing to do that. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand they need to 15 know what they're doing, but it's not anything to prohibit 16 them, like -- 17 MR. ARREOLA: It is personal -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- financial records or 19 personal records? 20 MR. ARREOLA: There's a lot of personal information 21 there. I don't know. Probably need to check with the 22 attorney's office and see if this all -- anybody can see, you 23 know. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 25 MR. ARREOLA: But -- 8-14-06 165 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I was just wondering. I see 2 a couple offices around here using those type of -- not -- not 3 necessarily out of the jail, but the -- what do you call those 4 people? 5 MR. EMERSON: Community service. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Community service people. 7 MR. ARREOLA: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That, you know, I don't see 9 why we can't use those. 10 MR. ARREOLA: I'll check into that. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I need to see if I 12 understand what you told Commissioner Baldwin, though. 13 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, sir. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you telling us that 15 you're not getting any files on any O.S.S.F. situations in 16 Ingram? Or that you have to build a file on any of these 17 cases? 18 MR. ARREOLA: A computer file, yes, sir. There's no 19 -- we have the old information when the County used to have 20 city of Ingram awhile back, I guess before '99 or something 21 like that. We have that information there, but it's pretty 22 obsolete. It's been seven years without any data entry, so 23 whatever happened, we need to reenter it, get seven years of 24 information into the system. So, that's -- 25 JUDGE TINLEY: The city of Ingram is going to have 8-14-06 166 1 some limited amount of information for you, presumably, if 2 they move over to your department, would they not? 3 MR. ARREOLA: Well, we're not sure how many exactly 4 they have. I already visited with offices and tried to locate 5 some files, and they're -- they been helping, but we're not 6 sure -- they're not so sure how many they have. I don't know 7 how many they would have. We're thinking about probably 400, 8 500 systems that we need to deal with, but it could be more. 9 We're not sure. We have to look into that. Okay. Second 10 page is basically that aerobic unit program that we're 11 mandated by state law to enforce. I think we're doing pretty 12 good. That's one of the issues with the city of Ingram; 13 they're not doing the enforcement program. We have to start 14 from zero in the city of Ingram if they don't have these units 15 on there. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Question. 17 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, sir? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: On your pie chart on the 19 rate, -- 20 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, sir. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- you list at the top 22 also -- you list no action, 57 -- or number 57. Is that -- 23 does that mean no action required or no action taken? 24 MR. ARREOLA: No, we haven't take action on it. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You have not taken action? 8-14-06 167 1 MR. ARREOLA: Correct. Those are pending to be -- 2 what happens is, the end of each month, some units are going 3 to run out of maintenance contracts, so we have to send 4 letters and do what we need to do. So, these 57, we haven't 5 sent them a letter yet, so they're -- they expired last month; 6 we need to send them the letter this month. Those are the 7 numbers. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 9 MR. ARREOLA: Next page is Solid Waste. So far this 10 year, we have reported 97 cases. We have investigated them 11 all, and they're all either closed or in progress. Special 12 programs that we have made on Solid Waste, we did a Kerrville 13 South clean-up campaign. That one, we notified 314 property 14 owners that we were going to be in the area and that we would 15 be looking for any violations. We did go and inspect the 314 16 properties, most of them drive-by. It was not a very 17 time-consuming deal, but we checked them all. Of those, we 18 find only 51 to be in violation. We issued notice of 19 violation for those 51. Then, 30 days later, we went back, 20 and 47 of the 51 did clean up. We had to issue only four 21 citations for the ones that didn't clean up, so that was a 22 pretty good experience. It was a good change in impact in the 23 community. They liked it. We did get a pretty good response 24 from citizens calling us for what we're doing; they thought it 25 was right, and even offering help. 8-14-06 168 1 JUDGE TINLEY: The numbers appear to indicate it was 2 a successful campaign. 3 MR. ARREOLA: It was very successful campaign. We 4 coordinated with the constable's office. They did assist us. 5 In those days, they helped us out. We have another one 6 scheduled for next week in Center Point. It's going to be a 7 lot smaller. That one, we already notified 54 property owners 8 that we're going to be in the area. Again, we coordinated 9 with the constable's office; they're going to help us, too. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which streets? You do 11 Harless, Bowlin, and what else? 12 MR. ARREOLA: And Brinks. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Huh? 14 MR. ARREOLA: Brinks. Brinks or Brink, whatever its 15 name is. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Brinks, okay. 17 MR. ARREOLA: Those three. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 19 MR. ARREOLA: Also, we did apply for a surveillance 20 system. We applied in March, got the grant approved in April. 21 We ordered the system in May. We just got it in July, and 22 we're supposed to pay for it this month. This is a reimburse 23 program. We're supposed to get the reimbursed funds to the 24 County in September. That's where we're standing on that one 25 right now. 8-14-06 169 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: When do you plan to put it 2 into service, and where do you want to start? 3 MR. ARREOLA: Probably right after this clean-up 4 campaign in Center Point, so it'll be by the end of this month 5 when we can start. We're going to get training on it. The 6 person who sold the unit's going to come and train us in how 7 to do it and what has to be done with it. I -- I believe by 8 the end of this month, the beginning of next month, we can 9 start using it. More plans on this clean-up campaign; we had 10 success on the first one. We're planning to do the Wood Creek 11 area by the end of the year, sometime in November, then move 12 to Ingram Hills in around March of '07. And then we want to 13 do Hill River Country Estates in Center Point by June of next 14 year. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Better book about a year for 16 that one. 17 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, sir. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's see. So, you got -- 19 you got one, two, three in Precinct 2, and one in 4. 20 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, sir. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Don't overload him. Don't 22 give him too much work, now. Want to spread it around amongst 23 us chickens up here. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There you go. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're going to start raising 8-14-06 170 1 hell with you if you give him too much, I'm telling you. 2 MR. ARREOLA: Well, it needs a little clean-up. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: He may spend the rest of 4 his career in Ingram Hills. 5 MR. ARREOLA: It's going to take a while. The other 6 pages are just regular monthly report. We're doing basically 7 good. We're doing very close to what we did last year. We're 8 staying in the same track. We're not doing bad or -- or a 9 whole lot better; it's just steady. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: On your system classification, soil 11 replacement is listed as a conventional system, is it not? 12 MR. ARREOLA: That is conventional, mm-hmm. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How do our rates stack up 15 against other counties in the hill country? 16 MR. ARREOLA: Excuse me? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Our fees. 18 MR. ARREOLA: The fees? For O.S.S.F.? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. Good? Are they 20 high? Low? Medium? 21 MR. ARREOLA: In regards to the rest of the states? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Hill country counties. 23 Versus Kendall, versus Gillespie. 24 MR. ARREOLA: Oh, I see. Okay. Against the other 25 counties, we're probably on the high end for it. We're one of 8-14-06 171 1 the highest. We're not the highest, but we're in the top. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Who's the highest, and how 3 much higher? 4 MR. ARREOLA: I need to check that real close, but 5 it's somewhere in the Beaumont-Houston area. That's where 6 they got more fees. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I didn't know they were in 8 the hill country. 9 MR. ARREOLA: Oh, okay. Okay, I'm sorry, I didn't 10 get it right. No, in the hill country, we're probably the 11 highest. I think I need to double-check that, but I think 12 from Bandera, Gillespie, Comal, and Kendall, we're probably 13 the highest. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Miguel -- good question, 15 Commissioner. And I'm also thinking of installers and those 16 who maintain and repair -- 17 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, sir. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- systems are licensed by 19 the state of Texas. 20 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, sir. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: But they're not licensed by 22 Kerr County. 23 MR. ARREOLA: No. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: See, if -- if you're a 25 builder, you're licensed by the state of Texas, and then if 8-14-06 172 1 you want to build inside the city limits of Kerrville, you 2 have to get a $500 permit from them. Should -- should we be 3 charging builders, constructors to -- 4 MR. ARREOLA: I don't think there's anything like 5 that anywhere in the state where the county does that. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Wouldn't be much money. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: We may not be able to lawfully do so. 8 MR. EMERSON: I'm not aware of any statute that we 9 can. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? 12 MR. ARREOLA: Any other questions? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Arreola. We 14 appreciate it. 15 MR. ARREOLA: Thank you. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Wait, I do have a quick 18 question. The Judge brought something up; he said soil 19 replacement, which I -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To do a soil replacement, you 22 basically just do your trench for the septic where the lines 23 go, and you dig out the old caliche and put in good soil? 24 MR. ARREOLA: Yeah -- yeah, you have to dig a big -- 25 dig the whole thing. You have to dig it all up, take 8-14-06 173 1 everything up, 2 deep -- 2 feet deeper than normal, and then 2 bring all new soil 2 feet around it, 2 feet deeper. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, it's just not the trench; 4 it's the whole area. 5 MR. ARREOLA: No, it's the whole bed. That's -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If somebody has, you know, 7 property, like a -- you know, an old field, it wouldn't be 8 that big of a deal, if you were just moving, you know -- 9 MR. ARREOLA: Dirt from one side to the other. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But if you have to dynamite 11 rocks, huge rocks -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Expensive. Okay, thanks. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's get to the financials. 14 You ready to go, Mr. Auditor? 15 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 17 MR. TOMLINSON: If you got time. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's going to take some time, it 19 looks like. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got one question. On 21 the "Commitchners" Court -- that's Spanish for commissioner -- 22 I think, if you'll walk through this one with me, I'll be able 23 to know more about reading this. When I first saw it a couple 24 of months ago, I loved it, but I'm beginning to struggle with 25 it just a little bit, understanding what all this is about. 8-14-06 174 1 The next to the last item -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- Margo Frasier, comma, J.D. 4 What is that? Is that a human? And what does the "J.D." 5 stand for? 6 MR. TOMLINSON: It's a degreed human, Doctor of 7 Jurisprudence, commonly referred to as a lawyer. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's a lawyer; that's the 9 problem right there. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: See? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the problem. Cut to 12 the chase, didn't we? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We took a step backwards in 14 this thing. And then tell me what -- I understand the word 15 "professional," but what is all this other stuff? And there's 16 another name. 17 MR. TOMLINSON: Apparently, it's for -- it's a -- I 18 didn't see the invoice, but I think it has to do with a 19 lawsuit that TAC has represented us in. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, TAC. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: And this person is on -- 22 JUDGE TINLEY: About law enforcement. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: It's probably the -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Claimant. 25 MR. TOMLINSON: -- claimant. 8-14-06 175 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Somebody in our jail probably sued 2 us, and that's the portion of our deductible that we paid in 3 order to make that lawsuit go away. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean -- 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If you want me to answer that 6 real quick, you're right along the line. That lawsuit is 7 still pending, though. That has not gone away, that one with 8 that name. Margo Frasier is the former Sheriff of Travis 9 County, who is an expert for the state, or for the counties 10 represented in this, and gives disposition as -- as to the 11 type of conduct that we did. And the other is TAC and our 12 attorney that actually does a lot of this. This may be for 13 two separate -- is it just that one? 14 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't know who this is. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. That is the claimant. 16 MR. TOMLINSON: All right. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That name off to the side is 18 the claimant. That's the one suing us, Buster. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, this person -- and, 20 obviously, it's public information who this person is, huh? 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: In that report, it is. 22 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It was originally filed in 24 state court, and it's been refiled in federal court. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tommy Patterson. Is it 8-14-06 176 1 something like a slip in the shower, hit his head on the 2 shower? 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Tommy Patterson has a life-long 4 medical condition. He was arrested outside of Fort Worth 5 after having a wreck because of his medical condition, and 6 having -- I don't know if I can say what the medical condition 7 is. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But -- and then he was 10 transported here, and he had the same medical episode inside 11 our jail and fell out of a bunk and fractured a hip, and we're 12 being sued because he was on the top bunk and not a bottom 13 bunk. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Okay. So -- and so, 15 like the Judge says, this is our part of the insurance -- 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- payment. 18 MR. TOMLINSON: The deductible. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Our deductible through TAC. 20 TAC represents us in the lawsuit. Charles Frigerio is the 21 attorney representing us specifically. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Representing us? 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Representing me and the jail. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. And so it really 25 hasn't come yet. I mean, this could -- we could pay more? 8-14-06 177 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: This lawsuit will probably go a 2 long ways. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Now, Margo is a 4 lawyer? 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, Margo is -- has a Doctor of 6 Jurisprudence, but she was the -- the Sheriff of Travis County 7 for a number of years, and she has been designated by the 8 federal courts and also by TAC as an expert witness in how 9 jails should be run, and -- and gives expert opinions on 10 whether the jail did correctly or not correctly, or what 11 should be expected. She's used in a number of lawsuits 12 throughout the state. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Does that mean that Margo has 14 already been in the courtroom? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: It means that Margo's very proud of 16 her ability to get a law degree, because she wants you to know 17 that. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So she charges us $3,100 for 19 nothing? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: No, she's an expert witness. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: She has already been deposed. 22 She would have already -- not in a court. She would have 23 already been deposed and seen the case and given a written 24 expert opinion as to the case to our lawyers that represent 25 the County. 8-14-06 178 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Retained by the County 2 Attorney or by TAC? 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, retained by -- by TAC, 4 technically through the attorney that represents us, who is 5 also retained by TAC. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Golly. I think the Judge is 7 right. Margo's proud of herself. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a large bill. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: She's at least $3,160 proud of 11 herself. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: She has been used in several of 13 our lawsuits, and very successful. She's very smart at what 14 she does. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is she friendly toward 16 sheriffs and -- 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioners? We'll let you 18 investigate that. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't know. She was a 20 sheriff, so I don't know about commissioners. Towards other 21 sheriffs, probably. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Biased toward sheriffs. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm sure glad you asked that 24 question. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll drop that. 8-14-06 179 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Keeps me from having to ask it, 2 'cause I had that one dog-eared, too. Yeah. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move we pay the bills. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to pay the 6 bills. Any question or comments? All in favor of the motion, 7 signify by raising your right hand. 8 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 10 (No response.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Budget 12 amendment Request 1. 13 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. Number 1 is from Road and 14 Bridge. They're asking to transfer $22,402.90 from Paving 15 Aggregate to Asphalt, Oils, and Emulsions. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 19 of Budget Amendment Request 1. Any question or comment? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I got a question. So -- I'm 21 assuming so that they can finish their paving projects, and I 22 need to ask him that question, I guess. How did we come out 23 with 22,000 extra dollars in the aggregate line? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's because that -- I 25 talked to him about this; not this specific one, but in 8-14-06 180 1 general. Oil prices have gone up substantially, where 2 aggregate prices have not, so he probably had to cut back a 3 little bit, or maybe, you know -- 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Didn't have enough oil to 5 match. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I know why he's short in the 7 oil. That would explain why he's over his aggregate. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I understand why he's 9 short in the oil, but -- okay, thank you. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Judge, is there any 11 provisions in your procedures for batch processing? Could I 12 make a motion we approve 1 through 28, and move ahead? Excuse 13 me, go ahead. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 28. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I tried that one day. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You tried it? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: As a consent agenda. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the answer I got. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Go ahead. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I think the legal requirement is -- 22 and the County Attorney can either confirm or say I'm all 23 wet -- is that the Court must approve budget amendments if 24 there's money going to be moved from what's already been 25 budgeted. Whether we do it as one of 10,000 items together or 8-14-06 181 1 one at a time, I'm not sure there's any -- 2 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah, it can be part of a consent 3 agenda, if you have the option to pull any particular item 4 that you want to pull to discuss. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You can pull it individually 6 and talk about it. 7 MR. TOMLINSON: I think it's -- my peers say that -- 8 that it's -- among the counties, it's pretty much split as to 9 what counties do. Some of them have it in a consent agenda, 10 some don't. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And miss out on all this fun? 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well -- 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Do I have a motion on the budget 14 amendment request? 15 MS. THOMPSON: I have a motion and a second. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: On 1? All in favor of the motion, 17 signify by raising your right hand. 18 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Budget 22 Amendment Request 2. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. Two is for Justice of the 24 Peace, Precinct 3. This request is to transfer $227.74 from 25 his Part-Time Salary to Conferences. 8-14-06 182 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Has that happened, or is 2 that about to happen? 3 MR. TOMLINSON: It's happened. It's for his clerk. 4 I have the travel voucher for his first clerk. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 8 approval. Any question or comment? All in favor of the 9 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Budget Amendment 14 Request 3. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. Number 3 is for Rabies and 16 Animal Control. We have a donation for the sidewalk, and this 17 amendment is to add those -- the $5,000 to the budget, and 18 also transfer $2,068 from Vehicle, Gas, Oil, and Maintenance 19 to Capital Outlay, for a total of $7,068. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move to approve. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 24 approval. Any question or comment? All in favor, signify by 25 raising your right hand. 8-14-06 183 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Budget Amendment 5 Request 4. 6 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 4 is for Justice of the 7 Peace, Precinct 1. He's requesting a transfer of $196.28 from 8 his Telephone to Conferences. This is also for -- 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Clerk. 10 MR. TOMLINSON: -- his clerk, yes. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 14 approval. Any question or comment? All in favor of the 15 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Budget Amendment 20 Request 5. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: Five is for the District Clerk. 22 She's requesting a transfer of $227.18 from Group Insurance to 23 Records Preservation. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 8-14-06 184 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Any 2 question or comment? All in favor, signify by raising your 3 right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Budget Amendment 8 Request 6. 9 MR. TOMLINSON: Six is for County Court at Law from 10 Judge Brown, to transfer $200 from his Telephone line item to 11 Office Supplies. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move to approve. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 15 approval. Any question or comment? All in favor, signify by 16 raising your right hand. 17 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Budget 21 Amendment Request 7. 22 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. Seven is from the Auditor's 23 office. I'm requesting a transfer of $878 from Software 24 Maintenance, with $78 to Postage and $800 to Office Supplies. 25 I have -- we have some toner cartridges in our new printers we 8-14-06 185 1 had to replace. There's four of them at $125 apiece. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 5 approval. Any question or comment? All in favor of the 6 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 7 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 9 (No response.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Budget Amendment 11 Request 8. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. Number 8 is a correction. 13 The correction is to transfer $85 from Notices to Books, 14 Publications and Dues for the County Clerk. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Any 18 question or comment? All in favor of the motion, signify by 19 raising your right hand. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Budget Amendment 24 Request 9. 25 MR. TOMLINSON: Nine is for the Sheriff's 8-14-06 186 1 Department. This is to increase the budget by $1,184.29 to 2 recognize the funds received from TAC for insurance claim -- 3 for an insurance claim. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Any 8 question or comment? We're not paying out anything, though, 9 are we? We're just moving it to that line item? 10 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah, we're just -- we're just 11 increasing the budget by that amount to replenish his -- that 12 line item. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 14 MR. TOMLINSON: Is really what we're doing. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: We've already expended the money? Is 16 that what I'm hearing? 17 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any other questions or 19 comments? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your 20 right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Budget Amendment 25 Request 10. 8-14-06 187 1 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 10 -- Number 10 is for Road 2 and Bridge. We -- we also -- this is also for an insurance 3 claim of $1,257.99, and it's for lightning damage to the tower 4 on 3/8 of this year. And we're transferring it to 5 Contingencies in the Maintenance Department. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What tower? 7 MR. TOMLINSON: Hmm? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which tower? Yours? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The radio tower. 10 MR. TOMLINSON: On the radio tower, yeah. They have 11 a radio tower. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think they have their own 13 separate from mine. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 17 approval. Any question or comment? All in favor of the 18 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Budget Amendment 23 Request 11. 24 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. 11 is for the library -- Law 25 Library. We have a verbal request from the District Clerk to 8-14-06 188 1 transfer $814.57 from Capital Outlay and $300 from Conferences 2 to transfer to Books, for a total of $1,114.57. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 6 approval. Any question or comment? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do we know what kind of 8 books? 9 MR. TOMLINSON: Law books. I mean -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Law books. 11 MR. TOMLINSON: We don't know what -- I don't know 12 what department it's for, but -- 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It could possibly -- I know we 14 got our new Penal Codes, Codes of Criminal Procedure that the 15 officers all have to carry and keep with them, about a month 16 and a half ago. They get about 50 of them at a time. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: There are a lot of what they call 18 pamphlet books that they send out; penal laws, for example, to 19 the constables, and bench books to the judges on family law, 20 probate code, property code, those kind of -- could be that. 21 I'm not sure what it is. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Isn't all that available on 23 the internet? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, sure is. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what I don't 8-14-06 189 1 understand, is why we can't -- instead of sending hard copy 2 materials to the library, send it in the computer, and -- but 3 don't we subscribe to a computer network? Westlaw or 4 something? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Yeah. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, West does for sure. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I never understood why -- we 8 computerized the Law Library; why we still need to buy so many 9 books, but we do. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd like to third that 11 motion. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Don't give up. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. The locomotives are -- 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I know, for example, when I'm on a -- 15 I want to look up something here in probate cases, I'll have 16 my Probate Code with me. If I'm oftentimes dealing in family 17 law matters, I'll have that. We're not wired up like the -- 18 there's a proposal, I think, that the I.T. man wants to get us 19 wired up like our compadres over at the city. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Everybody be packing around a laptop 22 and all that sort of stuff. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just like the City 24 Councilman the other day. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion and second? 8-14-06 190 1 MS. THOMPSON: Yeah. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or comments? 3 All in favor, signify by raising your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Budget Amendment Request 12. 8 MR. TOMLINSON: 12 is also for the District Clerk. 9 She's asked for a transfer of $4,085 from her Group Insurance 10 line item, with $85 to go to Books, Publications, and Dues, 11 and $4,000 to Office Supplies. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move to approve. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 15 approval. Any question or comments? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just an observation. It seems 17 that we have an awful lot of group insurance moving to office 18 supplies today, right before the end of the budget year, and I 19 hope there's a likewise reduction in budget requests for 20 office supplies for next year. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Good observation, Commissioner. Any 22 other questions or comments? All in favor of the motion, 23 signify by raising your right hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 8-14-06 191 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Budget Amendment 3 Request 13. 4 MR. TOMLINSON: 13 is for Nondepartmental. This is 5 an estimate for the remainder of the year, to transfer $425 6 from Employee Auto Insurance to Lease Copier. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move to approve. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 10 approval. Any question or comment? All in favor, signify by 11 raising your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Budget 16 Amendment Request 14. 17 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 14 is for Constable, Precinct 18 2. We have a verbal request from him to move $88.41 from Fuel 19 and Oil to Training School. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Any 23 question or comment? 24 (Court reporter asked which one seconded.) 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I seconded. 8-14-06 192 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He's not going to get much 2 training for $88. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not a lot. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's all I have to say. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments? All 6 in favor, signify by raising your right hand. 7 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 9 (No response.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carried. Budget Amendment 11 Request 15. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. 15 is for -- from the County 13 Treasurer. She's requesting a transfer of $3,185.92 from 14 Group Insurance, $2,500 to Part-Time Salary, $285.92 to 15 Overtime, and $400 to Lease Copier. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the -- is there any 17 reason in the backup? 18 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, let's see. Her e-mail -- 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Group Insurance is moving, but not -- 20 MR. TOMLINSON: Part-time salary's already over 21 budget by $1,709.75. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: How long has it been over? 23 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't have a note on that, but 24 I -- I think it's probably this month, because that would be 25 about a month or -- 8-14-06 193 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's a vacancy in one of the 2 slots down there, so it's -- I have a feeling she's including 3 slots, or -- 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Her deputy. 5 MR. TOMLINSON: Apparently, she -- it doesn't say 6 that, but apparently she's used some part-time people down 7 there during the last two or three months. And all of her -- 8 there are no -- there is no budget for part-time salaries in 9 that budget. They're -- all the salaries are budgeted in 10 deputy's salaries. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Does she have a plus in her 12 deputy line because she didn't have somebody? 13 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes, she does. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why don't we move it from 15 there? 16 MR. TOMLINSON: That's her request. I don't -- I'm 17 just -- I'm the messenger. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 'Cause it's personnel. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: What about the overtime? How long 20 has that been outstanding? 21 MR. TOMLINSON: That's been over some time. I don't 22 know exactly when it occurred. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't think this is too 24 different than other -- maybe, but I don't think it's too 25 different than a lot of other departments. Seems to be our 8-14-06 194 1 practice, when we staff for full employment at some level in 2 every department, and then we have some turnover, if we pay 3 less salaries, less insurance than what we budgeted for, and 4 then we use that money for office supplies or overtime or 5 something else, it's probably not a real good practice. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I -- it's also a practice, 7 when there's a position left unfilled, that we tend to be 8 more -- 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- you know, allow for part-time 11 salary, which is better than filling that position. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's true. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. I still prefer it 15 coming from deputy's salaries if there's a surplus there. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's fine. 17 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, I feel like -- I'm not 18 positive there is, but I think there is. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure. We budgeted for a 20 deputy, and never has been hired. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Not since last November. 22 MR. TOMLINSON: But I -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Might be used somewhere else. 24 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. 8-14-06 195 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The absence of a deputy 2 would also explain why there's money left in Group Insurance. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Some, yeah. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Your motion stands? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, I'll leave it the way it 6 is. Doesn't make any difference. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll go -- I'm okay. But 8 just -- it should be the other way. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion and second. Any further 10 question or comment? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Next year we're going to do it 12 right, by god. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Right. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or comment? All 15 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Budget Amendment 20 Request 16. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: 16 is from Environmental Health. 22 They're asking for a transfer of $98.40 from Operating 23 Supplies to Books, Publications, and Dues. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move to approve. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 8-14-06 196 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 2 approval. Any question or comment? All in favor of the 3 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Budget Amendment 8 Request 17. 9 MR. TOMLINSON: Now we're getting to the serious 10 amendments. 17 is for Indigent Health Care. We have -- we 11 have bills -- current bills totaling $65,036.45 and $2,901.35 12 to Third-Party Administrator, and there -- there are 13 absolutely no -- no unbudgeted funds in that fund, so we need 14 to declare an emergency and increase the budget. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to declare 18 an emergency and approve Budget Amendment Request Number 17. 19 Any question or comment? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think probably everywhere 21 we go around town and talking -- either talking to individuals 22 or to groups, speaking to groups, I always bring this up, 23 because I think that the public needs to understand what this 24 indigent health care thing is all about and what it's costing 25 them. This is -- this is a major deal. And, you know, here 8-14-06 197 1 we are declaring an emergency to pay an everyday bill, and I 2 just -- I think this is important enough that -- where we need 3 to really get this message out somehow. I mean, we need to -- 4 the Judge needs to call the newspaper and scream or something. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's this bring our total 6 to for Indigent Health? 7 MR. TOMLINSON: It'll be almost $800,000. We have 8 to go up to nine -- about 910. 910 is the max. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If there's money left over in 10 Austin. 11 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't think there's an option. I 12 think the state law is we have to pay up to 8 percent of our 13 general tax. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's right. But to get 15 reimbursement, there's -- 16 MR. TOMLINSON: We have -- we have to spend over 17 that to get it. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You got to exceed the 19 8 percent. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Then you get reimbursed if 21 there's money in Austin. 22 (Mr. Tomlinson nodded.) 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Everybody else gets it before 24 we get there. That's a lot of money. So moved. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Any 8-14-06 198 1 question or comment further? All in favor, signify by raising 2 your right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Budget Amendment 7 Request 18. 8 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. 18 is for the County Clerk, 9 Elections. The Clerk is requesting a transfer of $248.73 from 10 the Elections budget in Notices to Notices in the County 11 Clerk's budget. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 15 approval. Any question or comment? All in favor of the 16 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 17 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Budget Amendment 21 Request Number 19. 22 MR. TOMLINSON: 19 is from the Sheriff's Office -- I 23 mean the jail, sorry. The Sheriff's asking for a transfer of 24 $12,589.20 from Software Maintenance, $652.50 to Employee 25 Medical Exams, $9,540.42 to Prisoner Medical, $1,741.21 to 8-14-06 199 1 Utilities, $210.07 to Vehicle Maintenance, and $445 to 2 Maintenance Contracts. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 6 approval. Any question or comment? All in favor, signify by 7 raising your right hand. 8 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 10 (No response.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Budget Amendment 12 Request 20. 13 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, 20 is for Adult Probation. 14 This is the County's portion of that funding. We need to 15 transfer $797.02 from the DOEP Instructor line item to 16 Utilities and Maintenance. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move to approve. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 20 approval. Any question or comment? All in favor of the 21 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Budget Amendment 8-14-06 200 1 Request Number 21. 2 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. 21 is between Juvenile 3 Detention Facility and Detention Maintenance. It's a request 4 from Kevin Stanton to transfer $602.89 from Professional 5 Services out of the Juvenile Detention Facility budget, with 6 $127.69 to Maintenance and Custodial, and $475.20 for 7 Detention Repairs. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What were the repairs? 9 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, there's one -- there's a bill 10 for $227 to Whelan Plumbing. Actually, it's all to Whelan. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Any 14 question or comment? All in favor of the motion, signify by 15 raising your right hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carries. Budget Amendment 20 Request 22. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. 22 is also for the Detention 22 Facility, request from Kevin to transfer $1,133.87 from Food, 23 with $308.29 to Residential Medical and $825.58 to Telephone. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move to approve. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 8-14-06 201 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 2 approval. Any question or comment? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is -- he gets food from you? 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And he pays you? 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And I'm assuming that there's 8 money there to pay him? 9 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes, sir. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other question or comment? All 11 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's go to 16 Budget Amendment Request 23. 17 MR. TOMLINSON: 23 is -- is for Environmental 18 Health, to transfer $280.65 from Group Insurance to Vehicle 19 Gas, Oil, and Maintenance. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move to approve. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 23 approval. Any question or comment? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where do they come up with this 25 group insurance? Do they just -- like, an e-mail go out to 8-14-06 202 1 all county departments that they're spending money out of 2 group insurance? Or -- 3 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, there's -- you know, if 4 there's turnover or if there's new employees -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I knew -- I mean, I know 6 why we have it. I'm just wondering how they all know about it 7 all of a sudden. 8 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, we have to tell them. We tell 9 them there's money there. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They send us our budget 11 statements, give us what we got here, and this time of year 12 that's about the only thing you have left. 13 MR. TOMLINSON: We get these notes that say, "We 14 need to pay this bill. Help." 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, you're the culprit that's 16 pushing them all in this direction. Okay, this week we're 17 going to hit Group Insurance. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Except the Sheriff; he always seems 19 to have some hidey-holes. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I wish. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and second. Any 22 further question or comment? All in favor of the motion, 23 signify by raising your right hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 8-14-06 203 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Budget Amendment 3 Request 24. 4 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay, 24 is for County Court at Law, 5 to transfer $1,000 from Court-Appointed Services and $638.82 6 from Court-Appointed Attorneys to Master Court Appointments. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 10 approval. Any question or comment? All in favor of the 11 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Budget Amendment 16 Request 25. 17 MR. TOMLINSON: 25 is -- is for the 198th District 18 Court. We have current bills, $75 to Books, Publications, and 19 Dues, and one for $11,558.32 for Court-Appointed Attorneys, 20 and we -- we have exhausted our stash, so to speak, to come up 21 with funds. So, the only thing I know to do is to declare an 22 emergency and take these funds from Surplus. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Take funds from what? 24 MR. TOMLINSON: Surplus. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Surplus. 8-14-06 204 1 MR. TOMLINSON: Increase the budget. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: We don't have any more in the Civil 3 Court-Appointed Attorney? We've cleaned that out? 4 MR. TOMLINSON: It's gone. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're going into Fund 10 now. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: When you declare an 8 emergency, you're essentially busting the budget; you're 9 spending money that you didn't plan. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Spending reserves. Rex? 11 MR. EMERSON: Sir? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's your thoughts about 13 declaring an emergency to buy books? 14 MR. EMERSON: To buy books for what? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't know. The 198th 16 District Court. I mean, they wanted $75 for books, 17 publications, and dues, and they want us to declare an 18 emergency to do it. I mean, court-appointed attorney, I can 19 see that, 'cause that you can't foresee. But books -- 20 MR. TOMLINSON: Can I take from it the Commissioners 21 Court budget? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: $75? I mean, the $75, I just 23 think that's -- that's a long stretch to take that $75 from 24 Books, Publications, and Dues, and declare an emergency to do 25 it, in my mind. 8-14-06 205 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Unless you've already made 2 the purchase and -- 3 MR. TOMLINSON: No. Well -- 4 MR. EMERSON: How about, without having the exact 5 statute in front of me, I'll defer an answer in the interest 6 of not cutting my own throat. (Laughter.) 7 MR. TOMLINSON: I -- I agree with you. I mean, but 8 -- but without conferring with another department -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I -- 10 MR. TOMLINSON: -- to allow a transfer from another 11 -- to another department, I didn't have much place to go. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. Is there a -- how about 13 if we take $75 out of Commissioners Court -- something 14 where -- don't we have something out of our Group Insurance? 15 We keep -- 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Couldn't it come out of Law 17 Library? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Law Library, exactly. That's what 19 I'm thinking. 20 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay, that's fine. We can do that. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 22 MR. EMERSON: If it's books, that's what's the Law 23 Library is statutorily designated for, is to support the 24 judges. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, move approval that we 8-14-06 206 1 declare an emergency to take -- I can't read it -- $11,518.32 2 from Fund 10, surplus funds, and $75 from Law Library. The 3 second part is not an emergency. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll second that. I have a 5 question. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Question 7 or comment? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are we going to be facing 9 this 436-402 all over again next month? 10 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. Also in October. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Huh? 12 MR. TOMLINSON: Also in October, 'cause next month 13 only covers August bills. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other question or comment? All 16 in favor of the motion as indicated, please signify by raising 17 your right hand. 18 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Budget Amendment 22 Request 26. 23 MR. EMERSON: Just for y'all's info and comment on 24 that last agenda item, Williamson County is currently being 25 sued right now for not providing indigent defense freely 8-14-06 207 1 enough, so we'll wait and see how that comes out. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: That is the case that has to do with 3 their probable cause docket? 4 MR. EMERSON: Kind of. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 26? 6 MR. TOMLINSON: 26 is for the 216th District Court. 7 We have -- we have current bills of $2,779 for Court-Appointed 8 Services and $14,912.30 from Court-Appointed Attorneys, and 9 $175 for Special Court Reporters. And, again, same story with 10 this court. There's no room to -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move we declare an emergency 12 and pay -- declare an emergency and take the funds from 13 surplus, Fund 10, per the request. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to declare 16 an emergency and approve Budget Amendment Request 26. Any 17 question or comment? All in favor of the motion, signify by 18 raising your right hand. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Budget Amendment 23 Request 27. 24 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. 27 is for Courthouse and 25 Related Buildings. We have -- we have current bills of 8-14-06 208 1 $480.38 for supplies -- for maintenance supplies, and one for 2 $1,717 for repairs. We're anticipating $6,859.25 for the 3 remainder of the year for utilities. That -- that budget is 4 gone, so we're -- the only place I can recommend is that we 5 pay those -- to pay those bills, we need to declare an 6 emergency and take the funds from Surplus. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is till the end of the 8 year on utilities? 9 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's no other line items in 12 Maintenance that haven't been exhausted? 13 MR. TOMLINSON: No. We've already taken all we can 14 from every line item to pay utilities already. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is pretty well driven 17 by the increases in basic utility costs. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 20 approval. Any question or comments? All in favor of the 21 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Budget Amendment 8-14-06 209 1 Request 28. 2 MR. TOMLINSON: 28 is for Juvenile Probation. We 3 have current expenses of $16,185 for Alternate Housing. We 4 need $2,445.46 to make those payments, and again, we've 5 exhausted all the state funds that are available for that 6 purpose, and so the only alternative is to declare an 7 emergency and increase the budget by that amount. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 11 approval. Any question or comment? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you -- go ahead. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Weren't there some -- 14 weren't there some surplus funds down there in the line -- on 15 the Juvenile Probation Officers line item? 16 MR. TOMLINSON: No, we've used that. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. That was my question. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tommy, do you have any idea 19 how much we increased the budget today? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: $60,000, $50,000. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Any 22 further question? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 70. 24 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah, 70. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All in favor of the motion, signify 8-14-06 210 1 by raising your right hand. 2 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 4 (No response.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Boy, if that batch doesn't 7 make your eyes glaze over, nothing will. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Pretty exciting. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Do we have any late bills? 10 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Wonderful. I have presented to me 12 monthly reports from the District Clerk, Sheriff's Department, 13 County Clerk Trust Fund, Activity Report for Justice Court, 14 Precinct 2, justice of the Peace, Precinct 3, and Justice of 15 the Peace, Precinct 1. Do I hear a motion that these reports 16 be approved as presented? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 20 of the reports as presented. Any question or comment? Yes, 21 sir? 22 MR. EMERSON: County Attorney should be in there, 23 too. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I saw it. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Good report. 8-14-06 211 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I saw that. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sort of. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Need to add it? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We didn't have to break the 5 budget to meet his needs, so now what's going to happen is, 6 everybody else is going to feel left out, so they'll have to 7 start spending, knowing that we will -- we're real easy about 8 going into it. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not next year. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: The reports presented include a 11 monthly report from the County Attorney also. The motion that 12 was made to approve the reports as presented, does that 13 include this? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Second? Who did that? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think I did. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any question or comments? All 18 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Very impressed, when we fight 24 through the budget process for every nickel and dime, and they 25 just keep on spending it. 8-14-06 212 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Spend 60 grand without even 2 batting an eye. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But, you know, there's a -- 4 there's, like, a court order -- years ago we did a court 5 order; things like an elected official coming along. Let's 6 say they need -- just as an example, they need a new computer. 7 They need to make sure that that money's in the budget before 8 they spend it. Well, we did that for two weeks, maybe, and 9 they're off and running and going out and buying it without 10 even knowing if there's money there or not, or get permission 11 from this Court to do it. And that's an actual court order 12 saying that they shall do that. And -- right? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There's a remedy for that. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Say no. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: To enforce our court order. 16 The new software package for purchasing, if we have a 17 centralized person handling all that, they'll find out where 18 the money is in the budget and whether or not it's been 19 encumbered or not. That's part of the software package. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I remember talking about 21 that. That's going to be good. Hopefully that will do it, 22 but I doubt it. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Do we have any reports from any of 24 the Commissioners on their liaison assignments? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have one quickie, Judge. 8-14-06 213 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I met with folks from 3 Continuum, Continuum Health Care out of Houston, who've 4 expressed some interest in making some sort of a presentation 5 to the Commissioners Court with respect to -- to the Juvenile 6 Detention Facility. I don't have that proposal yet, but I do 7 know -- I have reason to believe it's forthcoming. They also 8 ask if we would consider -- I'll just read a quick memo here 9 from a fellow named Jeffrey Parsons, who's Vice President of 10 Operations. He spoke with his management team, said he didn't 11 get all the stuff together; they're going to talk about 12 options and so forth. "On another matter, I have attached a 13 proposed Memorandum of Understanding in regard to utilizing 14 the facility as an evacuation site in the event we have to 15 evacuate patients from our facilities in Harris County as a 16 result of another Katrina or Rita or whatever. As you can 17 well imagine, this is a pressing matter for us, since we're 18 already in hurricane season. Should the County be open to 19 discussion, we would appreciate going forward on this as soon 20 as possible." When he brought the topic up to me, I said I 21 think the Court would give it consideration, but we wanted to 22 know that all of our expenses -- all the expenses for 23 operation were covered and all liabilities that the County 24 might incur were also covered. So, I will put a proposed 25 Memorandum of Understanding on the next court agenda for the 8-14-06 214 1 28th with respect to emergencies and so forth. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Anybody else have anything? 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What happens next in the 4 budget process? When do we get back to that? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: What's the Court's pleasure? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In what? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Budget. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Budget process. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Have we -- have we gotten 11 official numbers from KCAD and -- or the appraisal -- 12 appraisal numbers? Do we know how much income we're going to 13 have? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Tommy says all of that's included in 15 the latest printout that he did. At least that was my 16 understanding from what he said. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do we have -- the printout 18 includes that and includes the COLA? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It does not include a long list 21 of items, correct? Or are all the personnel increases and -- 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Barbara gave that workup in 23 a separate binder, and it had four different options. And we 24 got that. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Who gave it to us? 8-14-06 215 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The Treasurer. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's just longevity and 3 stuff like that. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. I'm talking about more 5 the increased staff and the equipment for Road and Bridge, 6 and -- 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, okay. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- all that kind of stuff. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: The latest printout does include 10 elimination of 12's and 13's. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Grades 12 and 13. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: But it doesn't include 14 adding three dispatchers. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, it does. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: H.R. department. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: It does not include an H.R. 18 department. I mentioned this to the people in the Auditor's 19 office late last week, and said we need to kind of get at 20 least some rough handle on those numbers so that we can 21 include that. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We need to -- I guess what we 23 need to do is probably have a meeting and go over exactly 24 what's in and what's out, to know whether we're all on the 25 same page. And then -- 8-14-06 216 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What about -- how long is it 2 going to take this fellow from the retirement system that was 3 here this morning -- how long is it going to take him? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Two weeks. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: That's for the COLA thing. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Take two weeks. Probably 7 the buy-back will take longer than that. Based on what he 8 said, he indicated, as I understood him, approximately a month 9 to put that information together, for them to make a 10 calculation. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: For our budget issues? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. Now, we -- now, we can go ahead 13 and calculate what the other costs are based on total gross 14 payroll. The -- we know we're increasing, anyway, from 7.6 to 15 8.12, and we can calculate those other figures separately as 16 side options, as it were. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just trying to think of -- we 18 basically have everything. We could meet tomorrow and have 19 most everything that we need as far as the budget -- on the 20 budget, except for some smaller things like retirement system. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And I don't know what else. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Except we probably want to allow 24 three days for posting. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. I'm just -- well, I'm 8-14-06 217 1 just saying, how many loose ends are floating around out there 2 that we -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: There's really not that many, 4 Commissioner. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: There's really not. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Quite a few loose ends 8 in -- especially in the area of staffing. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Staffing, right. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: There's loose ends in the 11 area of joint operations with the City. Saw in the newspaper 12 where folks had a scorecard; they're saying item-by-item, 13 "agreement, agreement, agreement." 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Some of those -- 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: They're still loose ends, 16 as far as I'm concerned. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Some of those items I think 18 we deferred on discussion to exec. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, a lot -- yeah, a lot of 20 them, we have a -- I mean, hopefully, depending on what we 21 decide in executive session, that'll sort out a lot of -- I 22 mean, I don't think we're ready to have another budget meeting 23 until we get pretty much all the issues -- at least we know 24 where we're going, and then we need to figure out the cost to 25 get there. And I think we're pretty close. But I think we 8-14-06 218 1 have -- 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Maybe in 10 days or two 3 weeks. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Say 10 days. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What's our drop-dead date 6 when we have to approve the budget? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I've asked the -- the Tax Assessor to 8 give us worst case scenario and then an optimum scenario based 9 upon a -- a completion date by September 15th, and I've not 10 received those. So -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why don't we -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Publication schedule, Judge. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Got to have that. We've got to 14 publish for elected officials' salaries and give not less than 15 10 days notice, and if there's going to be any increase in the 16 tax rate, we've got to plug that into it. That's the reason 17 I've got the Tax Assessor -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why don't we do a workshop after 19 our next Commissioners Court meeting? That would be two weeks 20 from today, about, and by that point we ought to be pretty far 21 along. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would be a good time. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm good. It just might -- 24 my sense is we've done a pretty thorough job of giving things 25 the opportunity to be debated and understood and all that, and 8-14-06 219 1 it would be wrong to get into a bind toward the end of it and 2 not be able to follow through on all of our discussions. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think you -- you kept a very 4 good list. It's been very helpful. And then -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: When the Auditor and I sat down to 6 try and plug in as many numbers as we could into this most 7 recent run, I had that list as we sat in here and went through 8 those, and -- 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Good. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: -- I think -- I think we pretty well 11 hit what the consensus was that the Court has come upon as we 12 did each one of those items. We may have missed some, I don't 13 know, but we're still -- we put in some figures for -- for the 14 City/County, which I think I got the sense of what the Court 15 said. And the big item is if there are going to be any 16 significant personnel increases over and above that which took 17 place in the Sheriff's Office and that bailiff and the human 18 resources. That's a big question mark. Now, if there's any 19 synergy from -- from reorganization, this doesn't account for 20 that either. The thinking was that we'd have the same number 21 of folks in the total of all those departments that were in 22 last year's budget. They may be reconfigured or restructured, 23 but we'd probably have the same number. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. Two weeks from now 25 after our regular meeting, I think that would work. Go 8-14-06 220 1 through this and make sure. Go through our checklist. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And you and I should have 3 things pretty well refined on the other matter. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Which brings me -- I'd like 5 to go back to Item Number 18 and just ask my boy-dummy 6 question for the year. Human Resource Director and 7 administrative assistant. And I'm sure this is the 8 administrative assistant for the human resources, but we have 9 an administrative assistant that's got to be dealt with at 10 some point too. And I hope that we don't -- or was this -- I 11 hope that we don't wait too long before we start putting 12 something together there. I'd like to see us -- you know, we 13 have to advertise and we have to interview and we have to 14 hire, and then I'd like to see that person come in here, 15 personally, for some period of time so we -- she can be shown 16 the ladies room and how to powder her nose and all that. I 17 don't know that -- I mean, it doesn't -- I don't care one way 18 or another how much training she gets from the present 19 administrative assistant. I'm not sure that that's -- that's 20 a smart thing to do, anyway. I don't -- I just don't know. 21 If it were me, I wouldn't want someone to tell me how they did 22 it; I would want them to show me where the pencils are stored 23 and turn me loose and let me learn how to do it on my own. 24 But I think those things need to be decided pretty quick of 25 what -- how we're going to -- you know, we're into August 8-14-06 221 1 here. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I think it's important 3 how that is structured. It's -- to me, it ties with human 4 resources a little bit. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Human Resources department 6 can help us sort that out. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And also -- and, I mean, just -- 8 we've talked about, I mean, a need for two people here, and 9 now we're going to have -- we haven't pursued that much this 10 year, but with H.R. looking at two people, well, I just -- you 11 know, I don't see that that's going to need two people to do 12 that job. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't either. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So I think that one of those 15 persons could probably fill -- I mean, be split between what 16 we -- this additional staff needed here, which will be the 17 assistant person. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think we have to talk 19 about the structure of this job in here -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- before we go to posting 22 it, or before we commission the Human Resources department to 23 find us a candidate. I think we have to talk about the 24 structure. But I agree with you, I don't see it as a 25 two-person job. 8-14-06 222 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait, wait, wait, wait. Wait 2 a minute. You don't see what as a two-person -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Human resources. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This job here. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't see human resources. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I see that as a two-person 7 job 'cause you got payroll. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just don't see that it's that 9 hard. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Y'all are playing ping-pong 11 here, and I'm -- 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Maybe between the three 13 jobs -- three administrative jobs, we've got flexibility to 14 move things around and do things different. I'm -- I think 15 H.R. is probably two full-time, but they're -- you know, it's 16 going to seek its own level. It's -- they're going to take on 17 more or less than -- than you're anticipating. So -- but 18 somehow, between the three positions, I think -- and depending 19 on who's filling them, they can sort it out and they can help 20 sort it out. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Were you thinking that we 22 need two people in the Commissioners Court? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. No, I'm saying no. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you think that he said 25 that? 8-14-06 223 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I think he's talking 2 about H.R. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do too. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But I think we do need two 5 in H.R., only one here. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's my thinking. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Me too. I don't know how we 8 got off on that, though. That's what I'm trying -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think H.R. -- I don't 10 see two people in H.R. full-time. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, that's what we're 12 doing, though. That's what we've been doing this whole time. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, two, yeah, but I think 14 there's other functions. Other -- I don't think that that job 15 requires two full-time people. You need to have a backup, but 16 I think that person can do more than just back up the first 17 person on your payroll. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with you 100 percent. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Might be the head of another 20 department, possibly, or -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are you thinking that you'd 22 put a half person in our place? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Don't know. I think maybe take 24 some of the work out of here and put it over in H.R. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That might be the case. 8-14-06 224 1 You're going to put payroll over there, and don't 2 underestimate that. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, it's -- I mean, what's 4 being done with it now? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. The -- the last thing 6 I want to say about it is, let's don't be closed-minded about 7 the administrative assistant to the Commissioners Court. It 8 could be a male human being. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Sure. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure. Credentials, -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's all I got to say about 12 that. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- credentials, credentials. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't know how we got off on that, 15 either, but -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I just wanted to make 17 sure what this administrative assistant on this Item 18 was. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, administrative assistant to whom 19 or what? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, that's what I was 21 asking about. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay. Okay. Anything else 23 before we go into executive? 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Just an information, let you 25 know something. For about the last week, we're experiencing 8-14-06 225 1 what is considered a very aggressive type of staph infection 2 going throughout our jail. Unfortunately, we've already had 3 one inmate that had to have surgery due to it, and we are 4 working with the Infectious Disease Control over it. And it's 5 mainly because -- the jail, as y'all know, is very clean. 6 Everything in there is clean, anybody that goes there. It's 7 more inmates not washing themselves. And so we have purchased 8 or are purchasing individual, you know, hand sanitizer, and 9 individual little bottles to the commissary and issuing them 10 to every inmate in our jail. We've recleaned everything in 11 every cell with bleach and are redoing our laundry now about 12 every day instead of every other day, and we will get control 13 of it. This is something that hit Bexar County jail a number 14 of years ago, and was a disaster to try and get rid of. But 15 right now, we've had three confirmed cases. I forget what the 16 actual name of it is, but we are battling it as strong and as 17 seriously as we can. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are we doing anything special 19 to protect our employees? 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: My employees -- so far, it has 21 not affected my employees, and they are a lot cleaner than 22 most inmates. And we have always provided that, the hand 23 sanitizer and -- and, you know, washing and gloves and all 24 that to them. And this is transmitted through uncleanliness. 25 That's the way it works. It's not airborne or anything else. 8-14-06 226 1 It's just not being clean. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, you encourage your 3 employees to wash their hands often? 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And I've always had that -- 5 they've always had gloves to wear. Anytime they're dealing 6 with inmates, they're required to have gloves on when they're 7 dealing with inmates formally, and so it has not affected 8 that. But just the way inmates are, in case it gets out 9 publicly, we -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Any idea of how it may have come to 11 be there in the jail in the first place? 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: An inmate came in with it, 13 wasn't clean to begin with. That's where it started, 14 probably. I have no problem with what the jail's done or how 15 clean -- you know, as I stated, every one of y'all that have 16 been there in that jail, ever since the day it's opened, it's 17 one of the cleanest jails there is in the state. I have no 18 problem, but unfortunately, with more and more of the class of 19 people we're dealing with, and people whose personal hygiene 20 isn't what it should be, not educated enough, we are having 21 problems. And this is the first time we've had this one. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. Anything else? It's 23 3:32, and we will go out of open or public session, and we 24 will go into closed or executive session. 25 \ 8-14-06 227 1 (Recess taken from 3:32 to 3:43 p.m., after which an executive session was held, the transcript of which 2 is contained in a separate document.) 3 - - - - - - - - - - 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, it's 4:14. We're back into 5 open or public session. Does any member of the Court have 6 anything to offer as a result of those matters considered in 7 closed or executive session? 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else to come before the 10 Court at this time? We'll stand adjourned. 11 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 4:14 p.m.) 12 - - - - - - - - - - 13 STATE OF TEXAS | 14 COUNTY OF KERR | 15 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 16 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my 17 capacity as County Clerk of the Commissioners Court 18 of Kerr County, Texas, at the time and place 19 heretofore set forth. 20 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 23rd day of 21 August, 2006. 22 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 23 BY: _________________________________ 24 Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk Certified Shorthand Reporter 25 8-14-06