1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Regular Session 10 Monday, September 11, 2006 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 DAVE NICHOLSON, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X September 11, 2006 2 PAGE --- Visitors' Input 4 3 --- Commissioners' Comments 10 4 1.1 Presentation of plaque honoring all Kerr County elected officials in memory of the late Roger Stone 15 5 1.2 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action for 6 setting purchase price for copy of 2006-07 budget 19 7 1.3 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to con- tract with Texas State Arts and Crafts Educational 8 Foundation to manage bookings/rentals of Kerr County HCYEC and Union Church 19 9 1.4 Consider/discuss, reappoint Mr. Ron Vick to a 10 two-year term to 9-1-1 Board of Managers 39 11 1.5 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on payment of vacation balance for Diane Bolin 40 12 1.7 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to set 13 proposed salary increases, expenses and allowances for elected officials of Kerr County 47 14 1.6 Update on ongoing problems with IRS 50 15 1.8 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 16 satisfy IRS Notice of Levy served on depository bank of Kerr County funds 68 17 1.9 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 18 assert claim on Treasurer's official bond for losses incurred/to be incurred resulting from 19 County Treasurer's failure to timely file and/or pay sums due to IRS and/or TCDRS as required 78 20 1.10 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 21 provide temporary and permanent relocation for Kerr County Collections Department 93 22 1.11 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 23 approve revision of plat for Lots 7A & 8, Treausre Hills Ranch, Precinct 1 105 24 1.12 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to set 25 public hearing for revision of plat for Lots 13-A & 13-B of Riverside Park, Precinct 4 106 3 1 I N D E X September 11, 2006 2 PAGE 3 1.13 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to amend Kerr County Subdivision Regulations to 4 include additional exemption to platting process 109 5 1.14 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to abandon, vacate & discontinue plat of Live 6 Springs Ranch, Precinct 4 112 7 1.15 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action for the revision of plat for Lots 79, 80, 81, 82, 8 & 83 of The Woods, Section Two, Precinct 2 123 9 1.16 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action for concept plan to revise Lot 5 of Creekwood IV, 10 and set public hearing for same 125 11 1.17 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to rescind Court Order #29827 to abandon, vacate 12 & discontinue Privilege Creek, Precinct 3 127 13 1.18 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to amend start date for HR Director Eva Hyde from 14 October 2, 2006 to October 1, 2006 128 15 1.19 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on audit engagement for Kerr County for FY ending 9/30/06 129 16 1.20 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to amend 17 Court Order #29831 to allow The Blue Knights to use Flat Rock Lake Park October 27-29, 2006 135 18 1.21 Reports from the following Departments: 19 Information Technology 136 Road and Bridge 150 20 Facilities and Maintenance 153 Collections 159 21 4.1 Pay Bills 190 22 4.2 Budget Amendments 195 4.3 Late Bills --- 23 4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 219 24 5.1 Reports from Commissioners/Liaison Committee Assignments 218 25 --- Adjourned 229 4 1 On Monday, September 11, 2006, at 9:00 a.m., a regular 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in the 3 Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville, 4 Texas, and the following proceedings were had in open court: 5 P R O C E E D I N G S 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. 7 Let me call to order this regular meeting of the Kerr County 8 Commissioners Court scheduled and posted for this time and 9 date, Monday, September the 11th, 2006, at 9 a.m. It is that 10 time now. Commissioner Baldwin? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. Would y'all all 12 please stand, and in memory of 9/11, I want to take a moment 13 of silence, and you pray in your own heart the way you feel 14 led to do, and just lift up those families that are left from 15 that horrible tragedy. 16 (Moment of silence, followed by a prayer and the pledge of allegiance.) 17 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: At this time, if there's any member 20 of the public that wishes to be heard on any matter that is 21 not listed as an agenda item, feel free to come forward at 22 this time. If you wish to be heard on an agenda item, we 23 would ask that you fill out a participation form. They can be 24 found at the rear of the room. It's not absolutely essential 25 that you do so, but it helps me not to overlook you when we 9-11-06 5 1 get to that agenda item. If -- if you haven't filled out a 2 participation form and wish to be heard on an item, when we 3 get to that particular item, I'm not going to deny you the 4 privilege to be heard. If you'll just get my attention some 5 way, shape, form, or fashion, I'll give you that opportunity, 6 because this is your business we're conducting. But right 7 now, if there's any member of the public that wishes to be 8 heard, please come forward give us your name and address, and 9 tell us what's on your mind as to matters not on the agenda. 10 Yes, sir? 11 MR. CALHOUN: Thank you, sir. My name is Kent 12 Calhoun. I'm a Vietnam-era veteran, have four children in 13 school in Kerr County, and a property owner and a businessman. 14 I'd like to discuss what I think could possibly be a win-win 15 situation concerning the L.C.R.A. placement of power towers. 16 First of all, I'm not a specialist, but I think I do have a 17 lot of common sense, and I think that underground is actually 18 cheaper than above ground, and we've been told just the 19 opposite. The material costs for underground is cheaper. If 20 you look at a ditch with an empty space in it, it's got to 21 cost less than a tower 80 to 120 feet high in the air 22 comprised of steel and concrete. Steel and concrete prices 23 have hit their all-time highest prices of this year in 2006, 24 and an empty ditch has got to cost less. 25 Second of all, labor costs. It costs less to dig a 9-11-06 6 1 ditch than it does to construct a tower 80 to 120 feet tall in 2 the air. You need less skilled labor. Also, the power cables 3 that are going to go above ground or underground, the earth 4 insulates that, so you would actually need less cable 5 underground as well. Number three, legal fees. Your local 6 constituents are going to spend millions of dollars to try to 7 defend their property and get these things pushed as far away 8 as they can. Also, L.C.R A. has legal fees. When you put 9 these things underground, there's no legal fees; they're all 10 eliminated. Millions of dollars are saved by taxpayers and by 11 L.C.R.A. Number four, L.C.R.A. has to purchase less ground. 12 Instead of 80 to 120 feet above ground, if they put this 13 underground, they can get by with about maybe 40 feet or 14 60 feet, so they're going to save money for the land that they 15 would have to spend to put these things above ground. 16 Number five, the county. All -- all the taxpayers 17 and this constituency would save the current tax base. Over 18 in Horizon, property values have lost up to 50 percent, and 19 they still can't sell the lots. Construction has stopped. 20 And each house that stops construction costs this court money 21 in tax revenue. It costs our county money. It costs less 22 money for teachers, policemen, firemen. So, by having those 23 utilities above ground, it's a blight, and the construction is 24 going to stop; it's going to cost taxes. Number six, 25 underground utilities insure the county and -- and city of 9-11-06 7 1 future higher taxes. If you're a developer and you're 2 thinking about building a subdivision, you're not going to 3 want those towers in a place where people can see them, and 4 you're not going to build a new house right next to them. 5 Number seven, underground protects the natural 6 beauty of the hill country, and particularly the Thompson 7 Drive Bridge thoroughfare. Those towers -- and I don't know 8 if you've driven on the new Thompson Drive Bridge 9 thoroughfare, but it's fantastic; it really looks like 10 Kerrville could become a model city of the future. I think 11 whoever was responsible for that -- if y'all were, you did a 12 great job. I want to thank you, 'cause it looks beautiful. 13 I'd like to see it look that way 20 years from now, and not 14 have towers up there. Number eight, this controversy about 15 EMS, which I don't know anything about, is completely 16 eliminated underground. All I know is 138 kilovolts of power 17 running 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, might have some bad 18 effect upon children, and I've got four children that would be 19 pretty -- pretty much could be affected by this. 20 And to summarize, the last thing -- I'm a little bit 21 nervous; you have to excuse me. I think government has one 22 legitimate function, and that is to protect against 23 destruction of personal rights, liberties, and property. It's 24 guaranteed in the United States Constitution. I think most of 25 our local leaders, including yourselves, are well-intentioned. 9-11-06 8 1 You're honest, and you're intelligent citizens. What I have 2 presented here today I think is a win-win-win situation. It 3 wins for the county because it maintains taxes and insures 4 future taxes are going to be at a higher level. It wins for 5 the citizens; the citizens don't have to spend millions of 6 dollars to go -- to defend themselves in court to try to get 7 these towers moved away. And it wins for L.C.R.A; They have 8 to spend less money; they have to buy less property. They -- 9 and they're not going to have any damages. All the damage of 10 the blight of these things is totally eliminated. 11 And, lastly, I'd like to say that failing to plan 12 where L.C.R.A. towers are going to be placed today, either 13 above ground or underground, or what route they choose, 14 L.C.R.A. will determine how this city and county looks 15 tomorrow. We live here. Why should outsiders determine 16 Kerrville's future city limits, the future economic 17 development of this county, the present and future tax 18 destiny? Do we have the responsible leaders to tell L.C.R.A. 19 what to do, or are we going to let them tell us what to do? 20 They're outsiders. We live here. I've said my piece. Thank 21 you very much. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. Is there any other 24 member of the public that wishes to be heard with respect to 25 any matter that is not a listed agenda item? Anyone else? 9-11-06 9 1 Yes, sir. Please come forward, give your name and address, 2 and tell us what's on your mind. 3 MR. BITNER: My name is Jimmy Bitner. I've been a 4 property owner in Kerr -- taxpayer in Kerr County for 25 5 years. This is my first trip, but I've got an item that's 6 been bothering me for many years, and I want to bring it to 7 the attention of some others that I haven't been able to get 8 elected officials interested or that would address it. This 9 is my background and my documentation to it. This great 10 nation was founded on a rule of law in that all men are held 11 equally accountable. All elected officials take an oath to 12 uphold the law. And you have ended your pledge of allegiance 13 with "liberty and justice for all." I expect accountability, 14 fairness, honesty, and integrity from elected officials. 15 There is no excuse for someone in a position of power taking 16 advantage of a person in an inferior position. 17 Please note the indictment and sentencing of Teddy 18 Morris for misapplication of fiduciary funds. My fiduciary 19 funds were misapplied, Cause Number 91-513-C attached. Items 20 totaling $71,575 awarded to me have never been received, nor 21 have they been accounted for. In addition, without a hearing, 22 $6,235.67 was awarded to Chris Wallendorf which he wasn't 23 entitled to, nor, to my knowledge, bill was ever presented to 24 the court. Total misapplication of funds, $77,810.67. This 25 is a blatant violation of the 14th amendment. Regarding the 9-11-06 10 1 misapplication of fiduciary funds, you will see letters to 2 District Attorney Bruce Curry, Judge Steve Ables, Spencer 3 Brown, Court of Criminal Appeals, Sandra Mara, and others, 4 which were ignored. I've included some newspaper articles. 5 They report the conviction and sentencing documentation of 6 similar acts of a judge and a district attorney. Please note 7 the voluntary filing of bankruptcy 92-50685-C, Chapter 7, a 8 Mr. Emil Karl Prohl, now District Judge. Also note the 9 multiple arrests for affray, public intoxication, disorderly 10 conduct of Spencer Brown, now County Court at Law Judge. Past 11 behavior is the best indicator of future behavior. Would you 12 be comfortable in trusting your life to one of these judges? 13 I'm appalled and disgusted at the arrogance and the disrespect 14 that I've received from my elected officials. There is no 15 terrorist as detrimental to our government, our freedom, as 16 elected officials violating their oath of office, abusing 17 their power, refusing to be accountable to citizens of Kerr 18 County or responsible for the actions of the elected 19 officials. It's time for some accountability. Thank you. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Bitner. Is there any 21 other member of the public that wishes to be heard on any 22 matter that is not a listed agenda item? Not a listed agenda 23 item? I see no one else seeking recognition or moving 24 forward, so we'll move on with our agenda. Commissioner 25 Baldwin, what do you have for us this morning? 9-11-06 11 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, Judge. I'm 2 definitely not going to talk about football. (Laughter.) Not 3 one of my teams came anywhere near, so we're going to just 4 skip over that. But I understand volleyball's a lot of fun. 5 I wanted to address Mr. Calhoun a little bit. I received his 6 e-mail, and I think you all have received the e-mail and 7 looked at it very, very carefully, and I think it's some great 8 questions that you have -- that you have asked L.C.R.A. I'm 9 in total agreement with you that they at least need to look 10 into burying those lines and let us know the cost of them. 11 The only other comment I want to make is, we have talked about 12 many times in this court that this body has no authority in -- 13 in those decisions. However, KPUB is a partner in the -- in 14 the program. City of Kerrville-owned KPUB is a partner in 15 that. And on the L.C.R.A. side of this is a local resident 16 that represents L.C.R.A., as well as a board member that lives 17 in this community. 18 I mean, I'm happy to receive the phone calls and 19 e-mails, because I care. Been here a long time and I care 20 more than you do. However, I think they're misdirected. I 21 think you need to -- no, I think you need to contact the 22 L.C.R.A. and the City of Kerrville with those issues. I feel 23 like you probably have, if that's what you was going to say. 24 But, then again, this Court has no authority. I have -- I 25 have brought the issue before the Court twice, and they have 9-11-06 12 1 chosen not to get involved. And I understand that. However, 2 I'm going on record as agreeing with you that the lines need 3 to be buried, and I really don't care what the cost is. 4 Looking -- crossing that new bridge and cutting the ribbon the 5 other day, and looking over at the hillside over there and 6 thinking that those towers would be on that thing, that was 7 just an ugly, ugly thought. So, that's all I want to say 8 about that. Mr. Bitner, I wanted to address him. I have no 9 idea what you're talking about. If there's something that 10 your comments are -- that this Court can do, I think you need 11 to meet with the County Judge and see what we need to do. We 12 want to take care of that, but I personally don't see it. But 13 it sure could be. That's all. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. Commissioner 15 Williams? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I wanted to thank 17 Commissioner Baldwin for his thoughtful opening this morning 18 in terms of 9/11 and what it is we should be called upon to 19 remember, particularly those who lost their lives in the 20 defense of freedom and lost their lives as a result of the 21 terrorist acts on America. I think it's important, too, for 22 us to reflect quietly and continuously on the changes that 23 have taken place in our lives as citizens of this great nation 24 as a result of the terrorist acts. And while we're doing 25 that, then, too, breathe a little prayer for all of our armed 9-11-06 13 1 service men and women who fight for the cause of freedom all 2 over this world. Thank you, Judge. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Commissioner Letz? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree with everything I've 5 heard so far; they've done such a great job. But on the 6 L.C.R.A. issue, I agree with what Commissioner Baldwin said. 7 I think that burying them seems like a win-win, and I agree 8 with you on that. And, you know, from that standpoint, that's 9 the only proposal I've heard presented to us that I would be 10 willing to say I think does. I think any other option we've 11 been presented with in picking overhead lines, one versus the 12 other, we're just pitting citizen against citizen, and I don't 13 think the Court should do that. But the underground seems 14 like at least it should be looked into. And if the cost is 15 accurate that you're -- that you have with you, I'd say it 16 does make common sense, so I think that is something that I 17 agree with. 18 Other than that, I guess on a water note, for better 19 or worse, I was reappointed last week as chair of Region J 20 for, I guess, forever. But, anyway, we're working on that, 21 working on water issues. A lot of progress has been made. 22 When I look back at where our knowledge of water was almost 10 23 years ago, when I was first named as chair, versus where we 24 are now, we've come a long, long way. A lot of funds from the 25 Water Development Board, tax dollars have gone into it, 9-11-06 14 1 helping Kerr County and other counties in Region J. And I 2 also really want to note, Headwaters -- Headwaters has gone 3 further down the road, probably, almost than any other water 4 district, certainly in central Texas, on trying to truly 5 understand the aquifer where we get our water. I don't 6 totally agree with everything they do, but they are -- they're 7 working towards better science, and that's something that they 8 should really be complimented for. I think they've really 9 done a good job there. I think we know a lot more than we 10 used to. That's it. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Nicholson? 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'll speak a second about 13 L.C.R.A. also, and I agree with what I've heard here and -- 14 and the good thinking that we heard earlier. I'd like to see 15 some cost data on -- on underground versus overhead, and that 16 would be very helpful. I'd sort of taken it for granted that 17 underground is more expensive, but I'd like to know the real 18 numbers on that. Also, I'm a little defensive about the 19 accusations that -- that Commissioners Court won't take a 20 stand on the issue. I think it is probably correct that we 21 might have a little influence in Austin; certainly no 22 authority, but we might have some influence. They might like 23 to know what we think about it. But we have taken a stand. 24 We were asked to oppose the project, and we declined to do 25 that. And then we were asked to take a stand on the A to C 9-11-06 15 1 route, and we declined to take that. That's two stands right 2 there. We've also been asked to -- to select another line 3 route other than A-C, and we have not weighed in on that 4 either, so that's three times I can think of that we've taken 5 a stand on the issue. And when I know enough about it, the 6 whole project, and have more data, I'd probably be willing to 7 take a stand in the future. That's all. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. I'd ask that we all 9 try and keep in our thoughts as we go about this day the 10 tragic events of five years ago, but on an ongoing basis, in 11 particular, keeping your thoughts and prayers on our service 12 members who are serving us all over the world today, putting 13 themselves in harm's way. Irrespective of the merit or lack 14 of merit of their mission as may be thought by others, they're 15 committed to their mission, as are their commanders. And also 16 think of their families that are without them as they serve to 17 protect the rest of us. Let's get on about our business. The 18 first item is a presentation of a plaque honoring all Kerr 19 County elected officials in memory of the late Roger Stone, 20 former Precinct 1 Commissioner. We are privileged to have 21 with us today Royce Stone, the widow of Roger Stone, who 22 served for many, many years as commissioner on this Court from 23 Precinct 1. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: And -- 9-11-06 16 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Precinct 4. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Excuse me, Precinct 4. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's written 1, but he was in 4 Precinct 4. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: How in the world did I do that? 6 Grievous error. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Surely you didn't type this 8 out. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Typographical error, Judge. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Surely you didn't. 11 MS. STONE: You know this, Commissioner of Precinct 12 1, don't you? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Baldwin was formerly in 14 Precinct 4, and he used to talk about Commissioner Stone being 15 his mentor. And if you'll note, we have a -- the old light 16 fixture hanging up here that was salvaged from the old 17 courtroom, and this presentation that Ms. Stone has to make 18 today references that old light fixture as symbolic of prior 19 courts and prior officials. So, I'll now turn it over to 20 Ms. Royce Stone. 21 MS. STONE: Honorable gentlemen of the Court, I'm 22 here to officially present to you the plaque, and all of us 23 have had a chance to work on the format and the script of 24 this. And I am bringing it to you to be hung here in the 25 courtroom to substantiate the history and the background of 9-11-06 17 1 that old light fixture that all of you people see hanging at 2 the front. It was one of the original light fixtures in this 3 courthouse when it was built in 1926. I want to thank you 4 gentlemen for permitting me to return that light fixture to 5 the courthouse, back home where it belonged, and also to hang 6 it here in the area where my husband, Roger Stone, spent 20 7 years as a county commissioner representing Precinct 4. And 8 I'm especially grateful to you that you accepted my suggestion 9 that we hang the light and that we have wording in the plaque 10 that brings recognition and appreciation to every elected 11 county official in Kerr County, and to all the people who have 12 been served by those commissioners and other officials since 13 the county was organized in 1856. And so, it's with great 14 pleasure, a lot of pride, and a lot of privilege that I 15 present this plaque to you today. 16 (The plaque was hung on the courtroom wall.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: You like that? 18 MS. STONE: I like that. 19 (Applause.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 21 MS. STONE: I thought -- 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, read the plaque. 23 MS. STONE: I thought they did well in choosing that 24 spot to hang it. It's high enough that people can read it 25 without bending over. It's near enough to the light that 9-11-06 18 1 you're not going to doubt what it is representing. It's been 2 my pleasure to be with you this morning. Been my pleasure to 3 be with y'all. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Ms. Stone. Let me read 5 the inscription on the plaque. It's headed The County Court 6 of Kerr County, Texas, and the text reads, The old hanging 7 light fixture was one of the original lights in the Kerr 8 County Courthouse when built in 1926. The original lights 9 were removed and replaced in 1975, and -- 10 MS. STONE: '78. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: '78, excuse me. And Kerr County 12 Commissioner Roger Stone obtained this light at that time. 13 Appropriately, during the Kerr County Sesquicentennial in 14 2006, this old light fixture was returned to the courthouse in 15 Stone's honor and memory by his wife, Royce Stone. This light 16 hangs in the Kerr County Commissioners Courtroom where Roger 17 Stone served for 20 years, January the 1st, '59 through 18 December 31, '78, as Commissioner from Precinct 4. This light 19 fixture is also dedicated to all Kerr County elected officials 20 who have served the people of Kerr County since its 21 organization in 1856. Thank you, ma'am. 22 MS. STONE: Thank you. Thank you, gentlemen. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's get on with the next 9-11-06 19 1 order of business, if we might. Consider and discuss and take 2 appropriate action for setting the purchase price for a copy 3 of the 2006-'07 budget. Ms. Pieper? 4 MS. PIEPER: Judge, I am requesting that we set a 5 flat fee of $20 for the '06-'07 budget. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to set a 9 flat fee of $20 for the '06-'07 budget. Any question or 10 discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify 11 by raising your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Item 3 is a 16 timed item for 9:15. We're a bit past that, but we'll move to 17 it now. Consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 18 contract with the Texas State Arts and Crafts Educational 19 Foundation to manage the bookings and rentals of Kerr County 20 Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center and the Union Church. 21 Commissioner Williams? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: As the backup memorandum 23 states, Judge, we've had discussions with -- Commissioner Letz 24 and I both have had discussions with the folks at the Texas 25 State Arts and Crafts Fair, who operate the River Star Park 9-11-06 20 1 and who've done such a magnificent job of -- of developing 2 that park with a view toward the possibility of their handling 3 the rentals -- booking and rentals of the Hill Country Youth 4 Exhibit Center and Union Church. And I've asked Mr. Miller, 5 who is the Executive Director of the Arts park, to come and 6 talk to us about the possibility and to raise the questions 7 that are of necessity to be raised and answered with respect 8 to whether or not it is the wishes of the Court to do that. 9 So, without any further ado, Mr. Miller? Did you get a copy, 10 Judge? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Got one right here. 12 MR. MILLER: Good morning. I'm Bob Miller, Director 13 of the Texas Arts as Crafts Educational Foundation. And Mr. 14 Williams and Mr. Letz had come to my office many months ago 15 and said would we -- would we consider being the booking agent 16 for the Youth Exhibit Center, and we -- we have ended up doing 17 a lot of things together. We got some joint usage and parking 18 and that sort of thing. Now that we have the pavilion, we 19 think that down the road we'll have some more joint usage of 20 people using Youth Exhibit Center and our park, so there's -- 21 there's some common ground there, and we could use the money, 22 pure and simple. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Bob, you prepared an 24 analysis of revenue and expenses, and I've distributed it to 25 the Court along with the copy of the application for rental 9-11-06 21 1 that River Star Arts Park uses. 2 MR. MILLER: Yes, sir. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Would you be so good as to 4 step us through this cost -- revenue and cost analysis, 5 please? 6 MR. MILLER: Okay. The -- the first page of that 7 just lists the revenue and disbursements from '94 through, 8 really, the first 10 months of 2006. And I estimated the last 9 two months at of 2006, just to kind of see where you all were 10 on revenue versus disbursements. Not terribly profitable at 11 this point in time. I then went and looked at the breakout of 12 expenses, kind of to see where -- where the money was being 13 spent, and I looked at the revenue stream over the last two 14 months, tried to break it out into gross versus net, 'cause I 15 didn't know where the money was coming from, who was being 16 paid out of it, that sort of thing. Out of the gross 17 revenues, some of the money's being paid to the Hill Country 18 District Junior Livestock Show for the rental of the indoor 19 arena. There's money being paid out to the insurance company 20 for insurance that people are paying -- paying for and you're 21 being reimbursed for, and I think adding them to your 22 insurance, as I understand it. 23 I'm not 100 percent positive on that, but that's 24 what my understanding was, that if I come and rent, let's say, 25 the arena, and I do not have insurance, that I can be added to 9-11-06 22 1 your insurance for a fee, and then your insurance company 2 bills us -- bills the County and the County bills the user, 3 and that appears to be what's happening on the books when you 4 look at the billings that Alyce keeps also. When I went 5 through the expenses, labor, of course, ends up being the 6 biggest portion of that. Right behind that is utilities and 7 building and grounds maintenance. I can't speak to -- the 8 labor has in there, first off, maintenance salaries, 9 supervision, group insurance, the facility manager retirement, 10 all the taxes and stuff. I can't speak to how much of that 11 labor is actually directly associated with rental versus how 12 much is maintenance of the facility, versus even labor that 13 might be used off-site for people there. 14 And then you've got labor being used to oversee your 15 community service workers there daily, so your labor's being 16 allocated in lots of different ways, but it's being grouped 17 really under one account in the county budget, in the same way 18 that revenue was grouped. Alyce keeps a pretty detailed 19 record of the different things she is renting to people who 20 come and rent the center, but they get aggregated under one 21 number in your -- in your accounting at the county level, and 22 so you kind of lose the detail there. I think that you can 23 manage that better, a little closer. That probably needs to 24 be detailed out on a monthly and yearly basis so you can see 25 which part of the arena is being rented, what things like 9-11-06 23 1 tables and chairs and stage and bleachers and all those -- 2 pens and those kind of things are being rented, and then you 3 can tell a little better where you're making money and where 4 you're losing money than you can at just looking at an 5 aggregate number. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Mr. Miller, the gap -- the 7 shortfall between revenue and disbursements is around 8 $160,000. Do you think -- any ideas about how we could close 9 that gap? 10 MR. MILLER: Two. One is -- like I said, one of 11 your biggest expenses is utilities. I think that I'd 12 seriously consider doing a formal utility review out there and 13 seeing if there's not fixtures that could be changed out, or 14 just management of when things are turned on and turned off, 15 see if you couldn't get that down. Look at leasing the 16 concession stand; I think you're passing up a revenue flow 17 there from that concession stand. But before you get a decent 18 rental from the concession stand, you're going to have to be 19 able to tell bidders what kind of traffic flow you have out 20 there so they can kind of determine, you know, what kind of 21 volume of business they can determine. When you do that, 22 you'll get your best dollars out of that concession stand. 23 Those are the only two that just, you know, leaped right out 24 at me. If I -- I would run it like a business, you know. 25 That just -- that's kind of the way I would look at it, and to 9-11-06 24 1 do that, I think you really need to look at more detail on 2 where your labor's going, where your expenses are going 3 directly, you know. And you're giving a lot of money away to 4 the nonprofits, and that's a -- that's your decision as to how 5 much of that the County wants to do and how much they don't 6 want to do. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Are our rental prices high 8 enough? 9 MR. MILLER: You're asking me as somebody who rents 10 your tables and chairs, and they're way too high. (Laughter.) 11 No. And I get it for free. I'm one of those that qualifies 12 for free. To be honest with you, your tables and chairs are 13 things that we rent, and our complaint is, I'd rather pay you 14 for them and have them in better shape than what we get. They 15 get used extensively by everybody in this county, and they're 16 moved probably every other day. They're beat to hell. And, 17 you know, I don't know whether any money is ever put back in 18 it. I know that the community service crews build tables for 19 you. I think you might have a little better luck with these 20 new plastic tables that everybody's buying in terms of 21 maintaining them and finding a different way to haul them than 22 picking them up with a skid steer every time you got to move 23 them. The other thing I noticed is that there's no -- I don't 24 think there's been any consideration of how much equipment 25 time is being used now in association with your rentals. For 9-11-06 25 1 instance, every time somebody rents tables and chairs or you 2 set up the arena or you set up the exhibit hall, somebody 3 fires up a skid steer, you know, and in the arena they're 4 firing up tractors, and I don't think any of those dollar 5 costs are cranked into your rental rates. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In that context, take us 7 through this analysis you did of cash flow from rental 8 activities, about the third or fourth page, in which you break 9 down some of the issues regarding rental and expense involved. 10 MR. MILLER: The first one I looked at was the 11 indoor arena. You've got five rental rates for the -- that 12 anybody who comes to you and rents out there can have. I 13 looked at the labor, and I talked to Shel out there, and he 14 said one staff person can set up in -- I think it's three 15 hours. No, I'm sorry, we're on the indoor arena. Thirteen 16 hours to set up and tear down the -- the indoor arena, and 17 that's using eight community service workers, one staff, one 18 Bobcat operator, and one tractor. And I don't have any 19 numbers on the tractor; I forgot to ask him. I was just 20 playing with the numbers. I -- I took the overhead and the 21 management overhead, which would be the -- your labor 22 overhead, your supervision overhead, and 13 hours, and I 23 looked at all of these in terms of you renting 2,080 hours a 24 year, which would be 40 hours a week. I don't know whether 25 you do that or not. 9-11-06 26 1 And in that, your cost run is like $1,600 to rent 2 that indoor arena, and that was set up -- that particular one 3 was set up for, I believe, the circus that came to town the 4 other day, and they rented it for two days. And your rental 5 rate for that, for a non-local commercial, would have been 6 $1,000 gross. You would have paid a third of that to the 7 Junior Livestock group, and you'd have netted $667 on a gross 8 of $1,610. And it gets worse as you go -- if you had rented 9 it to local nonprofits -- or local commercials or local 10 nonprofits at heavier discounts. The other thing I looked at 11 was exhibit hall; went through the same kind of exercise as to 12 how much time it takes to set it up or tear it down. You got 13 one hour Bobcat time, you've got -- depending on how many 14 people you're using, you are -- you've got anywhere from three 15 to five hours of labor in setting it up and tearing it down, 16 and you got your management hours also, so you got $442 in 17 costs for a 250-person event. And you've got $697.50 cents as 18 a maximum revenue down to being free for a Category 4 19 nonprofit, so you make a little bit of money from the 20 commercial people, and not any from the nonprofits in that 21 exercise. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What would be the basis that 23 the River Star -- or the educational foundation would 24 undertake to manage this or book it and rent it for us? 25 MR. MILLER: Let's be clear about two things. 9-11-06 27 1 Manager versus booking agent, I don't think we're in a 2 position to be a manager, and don't want to do that. I think 3 booking it would be, you know, something that we could handle 4 and would be, you know, parallel to the things we do booking 5 our part. I don't -- I think we'd like to do it for a flat 6 fee for at least a year, see what's entailed, and come back at 7 the end of the year and we can kind of negotiate something out 8 there that makes -- you know, tied to something that makes 9 more sense. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I got a couple questions and 11 a couple of comments on the thing. Before I get into it, I'm 12 going to let you know right now that I -- I oppose this, just 13 like I did a few years ago when you had the Visitor's Bureau 14 talking this same talk. But I haven't heard anything that 15 benefits the County in any way. When you -- when you're 16 talking about labor of setting up and tearing down, it doesn't 17 matter who books it or who manages it; you'll still have to 18 set up and tear down. And are we going to -- is your proposal 19 that we continue the same way we're going now, the County 20 provide for setup and tear-down and maintenance and -- and the 21 County pay for the utilities and all that stuff, and they 22 simply deal with the person that wants to rent the thing? Is 23 that all we're talking about? We're -- I don't get it. We're 24 talking about privatizing a piece of government property that 25 I don't see where the benefit to the County is. 9-11-06 28 1 I, this morning, got a copy of the monthly report 2 from those folks, and it talks about -- the monthly report for 3 July and August, the exhibit hall in the month of July, it's 4 booked all but one weekend. And the month of August, every 5 weekend was booked. So, again, I don't -- I don't see the 6 benefit of doing this at all. If there is -- if we're not 7 charging enough, we need to charge enough. If we are not 8 charging enough for chairs and tables, we need to charge 9 enough for chairs and tables. Our own employees can do that 10 as well as anybody else. I prefer to have this facility and 11 all of its operations under the control of this Commissioners 12 Court. And if we're not doing a good job, then -- or if the 13 booking person is not doing a good job, we need to let that 14 person know so that they can do a good job. I'm not real 15 clear -- I just remember a few years ago, you -- you were 16 wanting to give it to the Visitor's Bureau to book and manage, 17 and I just -- I'm not sure I'm following what we're talking 18 about doing here at all. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Let me see if I can go into it a 20 little bit. I think the premise came -- that was involved 21 with the first conversation was, it does not belong to 22 Maintenance. I mean, I think it's a clear thing in my mind 23 that booking a facility has nothing to do with maintenance of 24 any of our facilities, and it was stuck there 'cause we didn't 25 have anywhere else to stick it. This is an option -- I don't 9-11-06 29 1 look at this thing as any different than what we've done right 2 now. We've stuck it in Maintenance; here, we're sticking it 3 with an outside individual or entity, so I don't see it's any 4 different than what we're doing. 5 Over the weekend, I talked with Roy Walston, and I 6 think he had -- I had assumed that they didn't have an 7 interest in doing the booking part of it. And I've talked 8 with Roy; they would be interested in at least discussing it, 9 and with an addition of a part-time person, probably, 'cause 10 it's not a full -- one of the problems is, it's not a 11 full-time job, so you got to have a part-time deal. And 12 that's why I think Bob thought they could -- you know, it fits 13 with him because it's kind of -- he can do it with his staff. 14 I think it's more work, but it's -- I don't think he's going 15 to hire people to do this. And the benefit to the County 16 undergoing the proposal that Bob put out saves us $15,000 a 17 year. Instead of having a full-time person kind of doing -- 18 granted, that person's off doing some other maintenance 19 functions. It's -- you know, you're saving -- it's less 20 dollars than just that full-time. So, the -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can I jump in here just a 22 second? I don't mean to interrupt you, but looking at 23 Commissioner Williams' notes here, it says here that current 24 cost to do booking -- the current cost to do booking is 25 22,000. Proposed cost to do business is 27,000. So, I mean, 9-11-06 30 1 I'm not a mathematician, but if we go the proposed route, it 2 costs us more. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where'd you read that? That's 4 not what I read, not what I saw. I thought that the cost was 5 15,000. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just read it. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's taking the high -- I 8 had several different percentages; that would be taking the 9 high one. But go ahead and finish. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's negotiable. I think 11 it's -- I would not go with that rate. So, I think that 12 the -- the -- I think the analysis that Bob did is excellent, 13 and it really shows us some problems. I think what the -- the 14 other part of it that I think that does come to the table 15 with the River Star doing it, they're knowledgeable. They 16 kind of -- this is their business already, so it's kind of -- 17 what the rental rates for chairs and some of these things, 18 some ideas as to how to improve the revenue, I think they're 19 in probably a better -- or business-wise, better spot to give 20 us that information. Not that we can't get it elsewhere. I 21 don't want to take any action today one way or the other. I'd 22 really like to talk with the Extension Office and Roy Walston, 23 see kind of what they look at. 24 The -- you know, I guess the negative I see with 25 going to River Star is, like you said, we lose a little bit of 9-11-06 31 1 control over it. Yet if we want to look at a contract, you 2 have to -- we would enter into with River Star, and there's 3 some things that -- two things that jump out right away. One 4 is 4-H, the biggest user of that facility, and that they're 5 priority users for any -- and that needs to be protected. And 6 the other thing is the stock show usage has to be protected. 7 And I think he understands that, but it's -- it's -- you know, 8 when there's a push to make it act more like a business, those 9 things may get jeopardized a little bit, so it has to be 10 really clear in the contract that those two entities do get 11 priority. And because of the -- I think we've heard in the 12 past, the double booking that happens occasionally with the 13 outdoor rodeo arena and the indoor arena because of rain-outs, 14 rain days, all that. I think we've improved that, but still, 15 it kind of ties the hands of whoever's renting it of really 16 trying to make money out there. So, that's kind of where I 17 am. I'm not really making a decision. I think this is a good 18 starting point. We need to do something with it. I think 19 Maintenance is not the right spot for it, and the only 20 other -- I think Extension Office, I'd really like to explore 21 that a little bit more with Roy Walston and see how it may fit 22 into their scheme, because I -- I think that in many ways, it 23 is a -- in some ways, they're better, I think, in doing it 24 than River Star is. In other ways, River Star does bring more 25 of a business model to it that I think helps the profitability 9-11-06 32 1 of it. But, anyway, I want to look at both of them. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: This is a really helpful 3 analysis. I appreciate it. It's the best -- best 4 understanding I've had of that -- the economics of the 5 situation out there. I hear what you're saying about 6 Maintenance being perhaps not the right place to manage 7 something like this, and you may be right about that. It does 8 occur to me that sometime soon, we're going to be employing a 9 new Facilities and Maintenance manager, and it might be 10 appropriate to wait and get he or she involved in -- in 11 exploring all alternatives and considering this proposal. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't think we want to 13 take action today, but I had it on the agenda for the purpose 14 of enlightening the Court and bringing the issue up on the 15 table and examining alternatives. A couple points in response 16 to Commissioner Baldwin. When we talked about the C.V.B. 17 several years ago, we talked about it in the context of a 18 whole new facility, and how they brought to the table the 19 ability to know what's out there in terms of business and how 20 to interact and hopefully obtain that business. But I think 21 the bottom line here is -- and brought succinctly to our 22 attention by Mr. Miller's revenue and expense analysis, is the 23 fact that it costs us money to put on events. It shouldn't 24 cost us money to put on events. It should cost the people who 25 want to put on the events in our facility the proper amount of 9-11-06 33 1 money to put the -- the event in the facility. We shouldn't 2 be financing every event that goes on out there because we 3 don't charge enough or we don't recover enough for expenses 4 and other things. You know, utilities particularly. So, the 5 analysis is good, and I thank you for it. I think we should 6 take a look at all the options. And, certainly, River Star 7 is, in my mind, an option. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One other comment on the 9 analysis. I think this should have been, sometime in the last 10 year, put together internally and presented to us. And that's 11 the problem I have of having a non-business person running it. 12 There's -- I mean, there's no incentive to make money out 13 there. That's not their charge, really. And I think that -- 14 you know, I don't know that -- we probably didn't ask for this 15 analysis, but we have asked many times in the past couple of 16 years, you know, to look at the rates and make sure we're not 17 losing money. And, obviously, we're still losing money. So, 18 I mean, something needs to be done out there on the booking 19 and the rate fee structure. I think that this is a -- I think 20 the -- this type of analysis is what you get when you get 21 someone from the outside looking at it, and I don't think we 22 get that internally. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: One more question. When we 25 talk about losing money, are you saying that -- well, let's 9-11-06 34 1 see here. There was an antique show in July that they pay "X" 2 amount of dollars to rent the thing, and it costs us more for 3 them to be there? Or is it the cost spread out over the year? 4 In other words, the amount -- the cost that it -- for the 5 stock show, as an example, that's an expensive -- that's an 6 expensive endeavor, the stock show is. So, is that -- are 7 you -- are you taking the stock show numbers and spreading 8 them across the year and saying that it costs us to have the 9 antique show? Or is the actual antique show costing us money? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think it's a little bit of 11 both, Commissioner. I think what Mr. Miller has done is taken 12 10 months of expenses, and a good example is he's drawn down 13 the gross revenue, which for 10 months, is $35,959, almost 14 $36,000 for 10 months of operation, where the expenses for the 15 same amount, I believe labor and everything else, is about 16 $162,000. Now, certainly, the stock show, by reason of the 17 nature of the show, the use of the entire facility for four 18 days, heat and air -- electricity, meters are just spinning 19 out there, that's part of it in this spread across the whole 20 here. But we understand the stock show, and we understand the 21 4-H events, and we know we're going to subsidize those and 22 they're going to continue. So, I have no quarrel with any of 23 that, but the reality of it is, anything else that books in 24 there should pay what it costs to use the facility, period. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I couldn't argue with that a 9-11-06 35 1 moment. Are we not charging enough? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, that's what this analysis 3 shows. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I haven't looked at it. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It shows that we're losing, on 6 the big arena, $660 every -- every time we rent it. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That should not be. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It just depends a little bit on 9 the facilities. If they're just renting it, not using any 10 setup or anything like that, I mean, obviously, you may not 11 lose that much. But you -- under some scenario -- and with 12 nonprofits, we lose every time. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. And we made that 14 decision, this body did. Of course, another way to fix it is 15 to shut down the stock show. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And that's not going to 18 happen. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's not -- that doesn't fix 21 it, though. That's just -- 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think this data says 23 we're not covering our variable costs; that when the knife 24 show goes out there -- gun and knife show, that the amount of 25 rental paid doesn't cover the variable costs. 9-11-06 36 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, that's probably true. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And we've asked several times 3 that that be corrected, and it hasn't been corrected yet, it 4 appears. 5 MR. MILLER: Can I make one more comment about the 6 labor? It speaks to your point, that you do a lot of things 7 out there besides rent that facility, you know. And one of 8 them is supervision of your community service workers that 9 show up every day, whether you need them or not. Your staff 10 is out there supervising and doing that. So, I mean, there's 11 -- there's another component there that really has nothing to 12 do with renting that facility, as such. So, I think that's 13 where you need to look in a little bit more detail of where 14 your labor's being spent. It may make that number not look 15 near as bad as you think it does. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And that's my question. 17 Don't you think that would continue? Or maintenance of the 18 facility would continue? 19 MR. MILLER: Sure. I just think -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Regardless of who's running 21 it? 22 MR. MILLER: I think in order for you to manage that 23 facility, you need to take labor that's being spent outside, 24 let's say in support of the community service workers' hours, 25 away from the rental, and so that you really see exactly what 9-11-06 37 1 you are doing. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 3 MR. MILLER: And then, when you say you're going to 4 subsidize your nonprofits, at some point you can tie it down 5 and you'll know exactly what that subsidy's costing you. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Better accounting. 7 MR. MILLER: You don't know right now. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do a better job at 9 accounting, yeah. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Miller, I didn't hear a 11 percentage figure that you would be proposing for your group's 12 handling the renting or booking of that facility. What -- is 13 there a specific percentage? 14 MR. MILLER: No, I would -- what I proposed was that 15 we do it on a flat fee basis for the first year, let us see 16 what that involved, see how that works for you all. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the fee? 18 MR. MILLER: See what kind of relationship -- 19 15,000. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me -- let me make some other 21 observations. I -- I don't know of any particular problems -- 22 at least they've not been brought to my attention -- that 23 we've had with the current booking arrangement. Now, maybe it 24 doesn't belong in Maintenance. Maybe it belongs somewhere 25 else, but currently, that's what's being done. And it seems 9-11-06 38 1 as though, particularly on the weekends, that thing seems to 2 be booked up nearly all the time. Now, you know, it would be 3 nice if we could do it seven days a week. It would be a real 4 cash cow and a profit center, but I just don't see that 5 happening with the activity we have going on. But I'm not 6 aware of any particular problems we've got with -- with our 7 booking. I -- with regard to what Commissioner Letz mentioned 8 about the kind of analysis that we've got here, as simply a 9 booking or rental agent, the -- would they -- would there be a 10 continuing administrative function to analyze these costs and 11 do studies and provide all this stuff? That's not been 12 provided, hasn't been asked for out of our Maintenance people 13 that do the booking now. Maybe yes, maybe no. I don't know. 14 MR. MILLER: I have not -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: The other questions that I have that 16 I think are more pertinent, certainly, as you've indicated, 17 all that labor cost cannot be directly allocated to the 18 booking. But by turning this function over to some outside 19 agency, are we either going to, one, be able to reduce the 20 salary that we have to pay to our people that do that 21 function, either by elimination of a position or -- or 22 spreading them somewhere else, or are we going to be able to 23 avoid having to bring someone else on that we would otherwise 24 have to bring on by virtue of continuing to do this function? 25 I think those are pertinent questions when you look at the 9-11-06 39 1 cost factors. Those are my observations. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, thank you. 3 MR. MILLER: Thank you. Appreciate your time. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything further on that particular 5 item? Let's move, then, to Item Number 4; consider, discuss, 6 and reappoint Mr. Ron Vick to a two-year term to the 9-1-1 7 Board of Managers. Commissioner Baldwin? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Gentlemen, thank you. Now, 9 Mr. Vick has served one term. His term is coming to a close 10 at the end of this year. I have spoken with him, and he has 11 agreed to serve one more term. And, historically, we have 12 asked people to serve one to two terms, and then we rotate 13 them out to keep fresh minds over there. So, anyway, Mr. 14 Vick, the father of two Tivy Antlers, has agreed -- has agreed 15 to serve another term, and so I move that we appoint Ron Vick 16 to a two-year term to the 9-1-1 Board of Managers. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 19 of the reappointment of Mr. Ron Vick to a two-year term of the 20 9-1-1 Board of Managers. Any question or discussion? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It should be noted he has two 22 current members of the Tivy Antlers. There have been previous 23 in there. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's true. Two current 25 members. And I want -- this is the cutest story. Last week, 9-11-06 40 1 against San Marcos, one of Ron's sons is the extra point 2 kicker, and he missed an extra point. So, normally, the coach 3 would get mad and replace him, but he would be replaced by his 4 sister. (Laughter.) And I just think -- you know, how would 5 he tell his family, "Well, I got beat out by my sister," you 6 know. How would he do that? I just thought that was cute. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or discussion on 8 the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 9 your right hand. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's move 14 to Item 5; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on 15 payment of vacation balance for Diane Bolin. Ms. Nemec? 16 MS. NEMEC: Good morning. I had received a request 17 from Diane Bolin to pay her her remaining vacation pay that 18 was due to her before she became an elected official. I 19 looked at the policy. The policy states that upon termination 20 of an employee, the vacation balance gets paid to them. So, 21 it really didn't specify if you move from an employee to an 22 elected official, whether that can be done or not, so I put it 23 on the Court's agenda for discussion. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can you tell me which one of 25 these numbers down here that the -- the final amount? 9-11-06 41 1 MS. NEMEC: 160 hours. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 160 hours. 3 MS. NEMEC: Actually, she -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd like a dollar figure, if 5 I could. 6 MS. NEMEC: I don't have that dollar figure. It's 7 -- what was your hourly rate? Do you know? 8 MS. BOLIN: I really don't. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, if we were going to 10 approve payment, how would we know how much we're going to 11 pay? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Four weeks pay at her last 13 rate as chief deputy, I guess, would be the rate. Is that 14 correct? 15 MS. NEMEC: Right. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm interested in the 17 memorandum sent by the County Attorney on this topic, in which 18 he refers us to Policy and Personnel section from the Brooks 19 Texas Practice County and District Law Volume 35. How does 20 that apply? And his covering memorandum indicates that -- 21 that we need to be cognizant of this before we make a policy 22 decision in this regard. Somebody needs to talk to this. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is it regarding the -- the 24 issue of the person coming out of -- going in to be an elected 25 official? 9-11-06 42 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I guess. I'd like a little 2 enlightenment from the County Attorney. 3 MR. EMERSON: The question, gentlemen, was whether 4 moving from an employee -- an employee position as chief 5 deputy to an elected official met the grounds, pursuant to our 6 personnel code, for termination or separation from county 7 employment, and therefore, was she eligible to receive her 8 vacation pay, or was she still just an employee of the County? 9 And, Page 7.1 that's attached from Mr. Brooks' book on Texas 10 and County Government states, There are material distinctions 11 between one occupying an official situation and another who 12 performs duties purely by virtue of employment. An official 13 may and often is directed by the resident -- excuse me -- 14 electors. He subscribes the oath of office and entrusts it 15 with the performance of some of the sovereign functions of 16 government, is subject to removal for failure to so perform 17 the duty or from misconduct or malfeasance in office. His 18 election or appointment is for a definite period of time, and 19 his services thereby become continuing and permanent rather 20 than temporary and transitory, as is the case of an employee 21 under a time contract such as the one in the instant case. 22 Thus, unlike employees or agents who have contractual rights 23 for continuing employment with the county, a public official 24 has no such property or contractual rights of office. 25 And then it goes on -- there's another page 9-11-06 43 1 attached; it talks about several different instances, but the 2 point of it is, is that once somebody is moved into an elected 3 official position, they are not any further technically 4 employees of the county; they are elected officials. They may 5 receive some of the benefits and perform functions for the 6 county, but they are not an employee of the county. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Rex, we have precedent for 8 this. In this room, we have several people who have moved 9 from being an employee of the county to being an elected 10 official. Did we pay their vacation? 11 MS. NEMEC: Yes, we did. On some, we did. J.P 1's 12 clerk was a -- was an employee in there; she was a clerk. She 13 was allowed to take her vacation time before she became an 14 elected official. Ms. Bolin has advised me that she was not 15 able to take her vacation time; therefore, she wants to get 16 paid for it. I believe that -- 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's not exactly a 18 precedent. The first case was allowed to take vacation and be 19 paid for that time off, and this was requesting a lump-sum 20 payment. But is there any precedent of any others who have 21 been elected to office and said -- 22 MS. NEMEC: No, I don't believe -- there might be an 23 employee in your office that will be taking her vacation time 24 before she becomes an elected official. And the problem in 25 the Tax Office was the scheduling problem, that she was not 9-11-06 44 1 allowed to take it off. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Based on what the County 3 Attorney just said in his analysis of this matter, would it be 4 your opinion that if -- if compensation was given to Ms. Bolin 5 for the four weeks accrued, thus ending her term as an 6 employee, would she then start all over at the bottom of the 7 accrual ladder once -- 8 MS. NEMEC: No. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Now that she's an elected 10 official? 11 MS. NEMEC: No. As an elected official, you don't 12 earn time; you just take it off as you need it. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 14 MS. NEMEC: So she wouldn't be earning any more 15 time. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Approval of what? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Four weeks pay at her salary 19 as chief deputy. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, get your calculator out 21 and tell me. I got to know how much it is. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we can approve the 23 concept to do it, but I think we have to do a budget amendment 24 or have something -- I mean, maybe not a budget amendment, but 25 a -- 9-11-06 45 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Should be in the budget. 2 Should it not be in the budget? 3 MS. NEMEC: It should be, because she's no longer -- 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In the '06 budget? 5 MS. NEMEC: Mm-hmm. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I second. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 8 of payment of vacation time to Diane Bolin for four weeks at 9 her rate of pay as Chief Deputy Tax Assessor/Collector. Any 10 further question or discussion on the motion? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. I'm going to vote 12 against it, only because I want -- this place is packed with 13 taxpayers, and they have the right to know how much it is. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you -- Diane, do you know 15 what your gross pay was? 16 MS. BOLIN: 32,062 was gross. 17 MR. ODOM: 32,062? 18 MS. BOLIN: Mm-hmm. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do that real quick. 20 MS. NEMEC: Divided by 28. 21 MS. BOLIN: Just so y'all know, even at four weeks, 22 I'm giving back 65 hours to the County. I had 225 hours of 23 vacation time. And I know we can only carry 164, but -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the amount, Judge? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Based on the annual that Ms. Bolin 9-11-06 46 1 gave me, and dividing that by 2,080 as to the annual hours 2 that I think is a -- is generally recognized, and then 3 multiplying that result by 160, I get 2,466.31. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, about -- almost 2,470. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, mm-hmm. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm going to vote for it; 7 of course, I seconded it, but I'm also acknowledging that it's 8 setting a precedent, that the next employee who's elected to 9 office will be able to cite this precedent as a reason for 10 them to be paid for their earned, but not taken, vacation. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, generally, most elected 12 officials start their term, you know, the 1st of January, I 13 think the end of the cycle. But if we -- you know, we may 14 want to look at our policy about carrying -- can we carry 15 vacation time from year to year? 16 MS. NEMEC: 160 hours. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 160 hours forward? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would be under the 19 policy/procedures manual. It's going to be reviewed and 20 renewed and be reworked. That would be a good one to make 21 sure it gets incorporated. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or discussion on 24 the pending motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 25 raising your right hand. 9-11-06 47 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We have a 5 timed item for Number 7 at 10 o'clock. It's a bit past that 6 now. That item is to consider, discuss, and take appropriate 7 action to set the proposed salary increases, expenses, and 8 allowances for elected officials of Kerr County, Texas, in 9 accordance with the public notice published in the Kerrville 10 Daily Times August 31, 2006. I apologize, I did not include 11 the copy of the notices as published. I have copies here that 12 -- so that each of the members of the Court can have them. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We have them. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: You have them there? Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: So it didn't get included in mine; 17 that's the reason. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, you got to know 19 somebody around here. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Huh? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You have to know somebody 22 around here. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: I see. Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What do you want, a motion to 25 approve this? Or are we going to -- somebody going to give 9-11-06 48 1 speeches or what happens here? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No speech. Motion to 3 approve. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion to approve and 6 second to approve the agenda item. Any question or discussion 7 by members of the Court? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a note, just for the 9 members of the public here, since we have a huge crowd today, 10 that all of the salaries are the same as they were last year, 11 with the COLA that was given to all employees, a 4.2 percent 12 COLA. There's no additional increases to any elected 13 official. And it also should be noted that I don't believe 14 the Treasurer is on here, on this schedule. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Nor is the County Court at Law Judge. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or the County Court at Law. Why 17 is that one -- why is -- well, I know why the Treasurer is 18 not, because when you did this, that was not resolved yet, and 19 I don't know if it's resolved still. Why the is the County 20 Court at Law not on here? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Because his salary is frozen and 22 remains level. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: And there is no increase. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 9-11-06 49 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay? Any other member of the Court 2 have any questions? Comments? 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm going to oppose it for 4 the same reasons I have the last three years, and I'm not 5 going to elaborate a whole lot more on that, except to say 6 that I think that the compensation of the County Commissioners 7 and County Judge is higher than it should be. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Bruce, you want to weigh in 9 on that? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a participation form by 11 Mr. Cox. Do you wish to be heard, Mr. Cox, on this particular 12 item? 13 MR. COX: No, I marked the wrong place. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All right, I'm sorry. Which one 15 would you want me to mark? 16 MR. COX: I can't find it on here. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. All right. Well, when we get 18 to there, if you'll get my attention, whatever it is you want 19 to speak to, well, we'll give you that opportunity, sir. 20 MR. COX: Thank you, Judge. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Any further question or 22 comment? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your 23 right hand. 24 (Commissioners Baldwin, Williams, and Letz voted in favor of the motion.) 25 9-11-06 50 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 (Commissioner Nicholson voted against the motion.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Let's move now to 4 Item 6, update ongoing problems with I.R.S. Ms. Nemec? 5 MS. NEMEC: I'd like to pass out a schedule that I 6 did, and on this schedule it shows our payroll date, the date 7 the liability was paid -- the tax liability was paid, and the 8 date that is to -- according to the I.R.S. Circular E, and 9 then it shows the I.R.S. due date that I.R.S. is showing. And 10 also attached to it, it has where I'm getting those dates 11 from, from the I.R.S. Circular E, so that y'all could follow 12 along with me as I explain this. There's three for each of 13 y'all, and one for the clerk, and probably an extra one. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that one page? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I think that's just one packet. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, that's one packet. More 17 coming, I believe. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You don't get one. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Can I look over your 20 shoulder? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely not. You have to 22 have your own. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: See there? The Judge took 24 care of me. 25 (Discussion off the record.) 9-11-06 51 1 MS. NEMEC: Did y'all end up with any extra copies? 2 Thank you. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I think everybody's up to 4 speed here. 5 MS. NEMEC: I'll make -- I'll get extra copies for 6 Zeke and Gerard. Okay. First of all, I'd like to go into the 7 problem that we had in 2003. This was the exact same problem 8 where they -- on our fourth quarter 941 taxes, they more or 9 less applied or gave us a due date of -- of the tax liability 10 being due on a date that we had not even done a payroll yet, 11 and so I had to write them a letter and explain to them, and 12 when I did that, they corrected that. This is the same thing. 13 If you'll go along with me on the schedule that I've done, and 14 I'll explain to you. The first one is the payroll date of 15 October the 14th. That's actually the date that we paid our 16 employees. The date that I paid the tax liability was 10/14, 17 which was the same day. The date that I had to pay it was 18 October the 19th, according to the I.R.S. Circular E, which 19 you have attached there. Now the I.R.S. is telling me that 20 those taxes should have been paid by October the 13th. On 21 October the 13th, there's no way to know what our tax 22 liability is. 23 The next one, our payroll date was 10/31. The date 24 the liability was paid was 10/31. The date, according to 25 Circular E, is November the 4th; I had until November the 4th 9-11-06 52 1 to pay it, but I paid it on 10/31. They're showing -- the 2 I.R.S. is showing a due date of 10/26. Again, that's days 3 before our payroll is even done. Next one, 11/15 was our 4 payroll date. I paid the taxes on 11/15. They were due 5 11/16, and the reason those were due a day -- a day later than 6 what the others are is because the taxes were over $100,000. 7 However, the I.R.S. shows that those tax -- tax liabilities 8 should have been paid on November the 9th, again, way before 9 our payroll was even done. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Barbara, can I ask you -- 11 this is my boy-dummy question of the day. What is the 12 difference in the -- the Circular E and I.R.S. due date? 13 What's Circular E? 14 MS. NEMEC: Circular E is a publication published by 15 the I.R.S. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, it's the same. 17 MS. NEMEC: Well -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I.R.S. has two different 19 dates that they're -- 20 MS. NEMEC: Well, last time when this happened, they 21 said it was a clerical error on their part. So, I don't know 22 what's happened this time, but that was the excuse they gave 23 me last time. And they -- 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 25 MS. NEMEC: -- went ahead and did away with the -- 9-11-06 53 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's in these copies of 2 Circular E that you've given us? 3 MS. NEMEC: Yes, sir. Yes, sir. 12/15 payroll 4 date, the date the taxes were paid was 12/15. I had until 5 12/21 to pay them. I.R.S. is showing that I should have paid 6 them by 12/14. The last one is 12/30. Payroll date was 7 12/30. I paid them on 12/30. I had until January 4th. 8 I.R.S. is showing that I should have paid them on 12/29. I 9 have been in contact with I.R.S. I'm a little disturbed by 10 what they told me, 'cause I had been talking to a Ms. Malby, 11 and I have here -- I have her number -- confirmation number 12 that she gave me, and we had been talking about this quite 13 some time. And on August the 16th, I was told the result 14 was -- well, I was supposed to call her back on August the 15 16th. I spoke to her June the 17th, and I was told to call 16 her back on August 16th, once I reviewed my records, and let 17 her know what I had found. I called her back. She said to 18 have it back by September the 16th, which I sent. 19 I called back on September the 16th, when I 20 overnighted the information that I had sent it by regular mail 21 by August the 23rd. And when I called, they said they didn't 22 have any record of receiving it. Then I called on September 23 the 16th, and they said it would take 45 days for them to even 24 update their system. And they also explained that the levy 25 that was put on the bank for $6,000 would be refunded to us 9-11-06 54 1 once they reviewed the records that I sent in. And I 2 explained to them that this was the same ongoing deal. I have 3 notes to all that. The Judge came in my office and saw all 4 those notes where my phone calls were made. My problem that I 5 have is that when I called the other day just to get more 6 information, they have me as calling on July the 14th. And 7 they said that I had said that I would fax them the 8 information. I have nowhere in my records -- and I gave the 9 Judge copies of my records and my notes where I called them. 10 If so, I don't know how they got that information. Probably 11 another mistake, another clerical error that they put, or 12 someone is calling on my behalf, and that needs to be 13 straightened out. When you call, all they ask you is for your 14 name, your position, and your tax ID number, and then you can 15 get any information you want. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Barbara, can I go back to my 17 question, please? 18 MS. NEMEC: Sure. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Circular E -- and this is 20 Circular E? 21 MS. NEMEC: Mm-hmm. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Show me on here where it 23 gives you -- how did you figure out what date that Circular E 24 required? 25 MS. NEMEC: Okay. On Page 19 -- 9-11-06 55 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 2 MS. NEMEC: -- right towards the bottom on the 3 right-hand side. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 5 MS. NEMEC: It says if the payday falls on a 6 Wednesday, Thursday, or Friday, it's due on the following 7 Wednesday. If it falls on a Saturday, Sunday, Monday, or 8 Tuesday, it's due on the following Friday. So, I went and 9 checked when these pay dates fell on to determine what date 10 they were due. But, like I said, I always do them the same 11 day I do my payroll; I never wait. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is a semiweekly deposit 13 schedule, and we are a semiweekly deposit government? 14 MS. NEMEC: Well, we're semimonthly, but they have 15 us down as semiweekly because of the large tax liability that 16 we have. They -- there is no semimonthly deposit schedules, 17 so we're considered a semiweekly. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And "semiweekly" means every 19 two weeks? 20 MS. NEMEC: Mm-hmm. But we don't pay every two 21 weeks, so -- we have to go by the dates here. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: This was the same problem you 24 indicated to us, I think, approximately two years ago? 25 MS. NEMEC: Right. 9-11-06 56 1 JUDGE TINLEY: That the I.R.S. had shown your 2 payroll as being every two weeks, as opposed to twice a month, 3 and that's what had fouled things up the last time. Is my 4 understanding correct? 5 MS. NEMEC: That's correct. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: And that threw off what -- how they 7 were calculating things, and they've done the same thing this 8 time, because we continue to be a twice-monthly payroll 9 employer as opposed to every two weeks. 10 MS. NEMEC: Right. That's what they told me when I 11 talked to Ms. Malby. Now, when I called last week, they told 12 me that it was because they couldn't read my Schedule B. So 13 every time you call, you get a different answer. I looked at 14 my Schedule B; there was no reason why they couldn't read it, 15 but again, I've submitted it again. So -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the problem is that 17 we're not semiweekly, and then it's going to be perpetuated 18 forever as long as we're classified as a semiweekly, because 19 once you get off, you're going to be off forever, 'cause every 20 two weeks, they're going to calculate when they're due. 21 MS. NEMEC: I was in contact with the regional 22 I.R.S. representative that lives here in Kerrville, and she 23 gave me the number to the -- she said that I need to talk to 24 the I.R.S. tax advocate group and have them come down and look 25 at my records. And I said, you know, if there's something 9-11-06 57 1 that I'm doing wrong -- which I don't think so, because I'm 2 going strictly by what the Circular E says. And she said it's 3 probably just a clerical error on their part; it happens all 4 the time. But to get a tax advocate up here, so that I can be 5 reassured and so the Court can be reassured that things are 6 happening right on our end. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, we need to -- I'm 8 sorry, Judge. Were you going to -- 9 JUDGE TINLEY: The -- the 941 that you've attached 10 to what you furnished us, I guess, for the fourth quarter of 11 2005, on the second page up towards the top, I note that you 12 have -- you've written in next to where you check the 13 semiweekly schedule depositor, you wrote in there, 14 "semimonthly." That was to indicate to the I.R.S. that you 15 pay your payroll twice a month; is that the reason for that? 16 MS. NEMEC: That was to alert them, right, 'cause 17 there's no place for that. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: And that -- I'm sorry? 19 MS. NEMEC: That was to alert them that we are 20 semimonthly, 'cause there's not a place to mark that. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. And that's what you furnished 22 to them to indicate how our payroll is paid? 23 MS. NEMEC: Right. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: With your report? 25 MS. NEMEC: Right. 9-11-06 58 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm going to tell you more 3 than I know about monthly payrolls. But your main -- the 4 resolution of the issue, some organizations that pay twice a 5 month are on a monthly payroll, and the first -- the middle of 6 the month payment is an advance on the monthly payment 7 payroll. If we could get some advice, that may be the 8 resolution of the issue. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that's important, to 10 get the advice. I think it's also important to be in touch 11 with somebody who can change our official designation from 12 semiweekly to twice monthly. But I'm curious about something, 13 Ms. Nemec. Help me understand your letter of August 23, which 14 refers to a notice of levy of $527.01, where the notice of 15 levy that I have a copy of dated October -- August 30 from the 16 I.R.S. to Security State Bank talks about a total amount due 17 to them, they say, of $6,572.84. Help me connect those two 18 numbers, please. 19 MS. NEMEC: Okay. What happened was, when I 20 received that $527 levy, they explained that, see, a lot of 21 times we do our payroll, and then after the fact, there's 22 employees who -- or departments who have not turned in time 23 for the employees, and legally, I have to pay them. I can't 24 wait till the next payroll. I can if they agree to it, but if 25 they don't, I have to pay them. In the old system, it would 9-11-06 59 1 adjust those amounts so when they receive the reports, they 2 found that that was off, so that was paid. And when I called 3 that day, they said that there was also this other problem, 4 and that's when I started investigating this other $6,000 5 problem, and I asked them why, and that's when they explained 6 to me that they gave me all these dates when they should have 7 been paid. And I said, there's no way we could have paid them 8 on that date, and on and on and on. So, last week when I 9 talked to them, and I said, have y'all received -- I sent a 10 letter of explanation along with a -- a spreadsheet showing 11 the pay dates, the date it was paid in the Circular E. That's 12 when they told me, that it would take 45 -- 30 to 45 days 13 before they could even review it, at which time they said that 14 they would probably take the $6,000 out of our account, and 15 then turn around and refund it once they got this settled. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The letter of August 23 17 refers to a May 1 notice of levy of 527. Has that been 18 rectified by I.R.S.? 19 MS. NEMEC: Yes. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Four months have elapsed. 21 It has been? 22 MS. NEMEC: Yes, that's been taken care of. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Eliminated? 24 MS. NEMEC: That's right. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or refunded the 527, 9-11-06 60 1 whichever they did? 2 MS. NEMEC: Right. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, the only outstanding one 4 is this one of August 30; is that correct? 5 MS. NEMEC: Right. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And that has to do with 7 their not understanding when we pay our employees? 8 MS. NEMEC: Either that or a clerical error, 'cause 9 that's what they sent last time, a letter that it was a 10 clerical error on their part, the way they input it, the 11 dates. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What must be done for us to 13 rectify this matter? 14 MS. NEMEC: Well, that's why I'm getting together 15 with a tax advocate to come down and make some suggestions on 16 what to do, and I'd like the County Auditor to be in on that 17 meeting. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Ms. Nemec, you may know the 19 answer to the question, or I may need help from the County 20 Auditor. These series of errors, have these errors cost the 21 employees of Kerr County or Kerr County government? 22 MS. NEMEC: No. No, because each time that there's 23 an error, they correct them. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Nemec, I note in your August 23rd 25 letter, you indicated to Ms. Malby, who you indicated you were 9-11-06 61 1 talking to, that you would send in Schedule B. 2 MS. NEMEC: Mm-hmm. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: That's an additional form that they 4 ask to you file? 5 MS. NEMEC: That's the same form I filed on 6 December 31st, 2005. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 8 MS. NEMEC: And the last time that this happened, I 9 had filed that form and I just had to resend it. And, see, 10 that form -- I don't know if I have that form attached, but 11 there's dates on there, and it's very easy -- and I think 12 that's what happened, was that they picked up the wrong dates 13 when they were inputting their information, therefore showing 14 that it should have been paid prior to when it should have 15 been paid. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It seems to me that the whole 17 problem is that they have us coded as semiweekly. We need to 18 send a letter to them, get them to change to it semimonthly. 19 Certainly, we're not the only entity around that pays 20 semimonthly. Tommy? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, I was going to ask the Auditor 22 if he had some input on this particular situation. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, I think the -- the I.R.S. 24 definition of -- of a deposit -- deposit date really has 25 nothing to do with -- with when you pay. If you -- if your 9-11-06 62 1 liability is between 50,000 and 100,000 per pay period, you 2 are -- you become a semiweekly depositor. So, you could pay 3 every day; you can have a payroll every day, and if you -- and 4 if your payroll generated liabilities of more than $50,000, 5 then you -- then you would become a semiweekly depositor. So, 6 that really has nothing to do with when we pay. If we -- if 7 we pay on the 5th, 10th, and 20th, if the liability is more 8 than $50,000, then on -- if we pay on the 5th and it happened 9 to be on the Friday, then we have to follow Schedule E, and 10 that deposit has to be made three days -- or three business 11 days after that payday. So -- so this -- and the key is the 12 liability. That keys -- there is a $50,000 amount, and then 13 there's a $100,000 amount, and the Treasurer referred to that 14 a while ago. If you -- if you reach $100,000 liability, then 15 your -- your deposit date is the next business day. As a 16 matter of fact, you have -- if it's 100,000 or more, you have 17 to initiate the deposit the day before it's due. I mean, 18 because if you -- if you initiate a deposit on the 15th, and 19 it's due the 15th, I.R.S. does not get -- the Treasurer 20 doesn't get the money until the 16th. So, if you're -- if 21 you're 30 minutes late on the day prior to the day it's due, 22 then you get a penalty. That's all there is to it. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you have any specific information 24 as to the -- the filings or the payrolls in question that 25 we've been talking about here this morning? 9-11-06 63 1 MR. TOMLINSON: I have -- I have questioned the 2 I.R.S. myself on this issue. I get a different answer. 3 They -- they -- the person I talked to, I asked them to give 4 me a copy of Schedule B, and they said they had no record of 5 Schedule B. And so I said, "Well, how did you determine -- 6 without Schedule B, how do you determine when our liability 7 is?" And they said, Well, we -- since we didn't -- since we 8 don't have Schedule B in our file, we average the total -- we 9 took the total payments for that quarter and averaged them to 10 be a week -- I think it's actually a weekly payroll, is what 11 the average is. So, they just arbitrarily set us as a -- as a 12 weekly depositor. And so, I mean, that was foreign to me; I 13 never heard of that before, but that's essentially what they 14 said they did. 15 MS. NEMEC: See, and they told me they couldn't read 16 my Schedule B. 17 MR. TOMLINSON: So, Schedule B is -- is the issue, I 18 think. 19 MS. NEMEC: And that Schedule B is attached to the 20 941 that spells out all our taxes. I mean, I never sent one 21 without the other. It's -- it's one form that needs to be 22 filled out together. And it's like Tommy was saying, that the 23 due dates are three days after the payroll, but I never wait 24 that long. I do them, as you can see on your schedule, the 25 same day as the payroll. So -- 9-11-06 64 1 JUDGE TINLEY: But, Mr. Tomlinson, you indicate the 2 I.R.S.'s response to you is they did not have any record of 3 having received Schedule B to form 941 payroll tax return for 4 those periods? 5 MR. TOMLINSON: I asked them to read me the dates 6 of -- of the -- or to read me the due dates. And they -- 7 or -- well, I asked them also to read me the payroll dates on 8 the schedule, on Schedule B, and they said we cannot read -- I 9 cannot give you that information because we don't have it 10 available. Exactly what he said. 11 MS. NEMEC: And those were copies of files that you 12 received from my office that had Schedule B attached to it, so 13 why they don't have it, I don't know. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mr. Tomlinson, doesn't the 15 bank have a record of when the funds were transmitted to 16 I.R.S.? 17 MR. TOMLINSON: Sure. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And what does that reveal? 19 MR. TOMLINSON: It's exactly what she said. The 20 payment dates are exactly what she read off in her -- on 21 her -- 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Does the I.R.S. impose a penalty for 24 failure to file a Schedule B if you're required to do so with 25 your 941? 9-11-06 65 1 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't know that. I can't answer 2 that. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, Barbara, if I were king 4 for the day, which I am not, or queen for the day, I -- I'm 5 not sure about advocacy groups. I mean, I have -- that's kind 6 of a feel-good thing to me. If -- if I were a king for a day, 7 I would -- I'd call Senator Cornyn's office and ask him to 8 trot somebody down here that can make decisions. 9 MS. NEMEC: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And get to the bottom of it, 11 and let's get on down the road. 12 MS. NEMEC: Okay. 'Cause here we are in the last 13 quarter again, and if this happens again, we're going to be 14 facing this next year again. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, it's going to get 16 uglier and uglier, I can tell you, if it keeps happening. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Got to resolve it before the 18 end of this fourth quarter. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. Need to resolve 20 this thing. 21 MS. NEMEC: And it happens in the fourth quarter all 22 the time. All the other quarters are fine; then we get to the 23 fourth quarter, and for some reason -- 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Are we different than other 25 counties? 9-11-06 66 1 MS. NEMEC: No. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Are they having this same 3 problem? 4 MS. NEMEC: I haven't checked. I've got to call, 5 make some inquiries on that. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Nemec, let me refer you to 7 Circular E, as published by the Internal Revenue Service. I'm 8 actually looking at the 2005 model, which would be applicable, 9 in which it speaks of the Application of Monthly and 10 Semiweekly Schedules. It states under that heading that the 11 terms "monthly schedule depositor" and "semiweekly schedule 12 depositor" do not refer to how often your business pays its 13 employees or even how often you are required to make deposits. 14 The terms identify which set of deposit rules that you must 15 follow when an employment tax liability arises. Further, in 16 that same circular, dealing with deposit penalties, there's a 17 section entitled, quote, Averaged, unquote, failure-to-deposit 18 penalty, and it reads, in part, I.R.S. may also assess this 19 penalty of 2 percent to 10 percent if you are a semiweekly 20 schedule depositor and your tax liability shown on Form 941 21 was $2,500 or more, and you did any of the following. One of 22 those included is fail to attach a properly completed Schedule 23 B to the 941. 24 I.R.S. figures the penalty by allocating your total 25 tax liability equally throughout the tax period. Your 9-11-06 67 1 deposits and payments may not be counted as timely because 2 I.R.S. does not know the actual dates of your tax liabilities. 3 You can avoid the penalty by reviewing your return before 4 filing it. Follow these steps before filing your form 1041, 5 one of which is if you are a semiweekly schedule depositor, 6 report your tax liabilities, pren, not your deposits, pren 7 closed, on Schedule B, in the lines that represent the dates 8 you paid your employees. It occurs to me, based on the 9 information from the Auditor, that we've had a penalty imposed 10 because the I.R.S. didn't know when we paid, and therefore 11 imposed that penalty in accordance with that section as set 12 forth in Circular E. 13 MS. NEMEC: Well, I -- 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't know that for certain. 15 That's just a surmise that I'm making at this point. 16 MS. NEMEC: All I can say is that in order for me to 17 do the 941's that's due every quarter, I have to first do the 18 Schedule B to get my figures from that, and I take those 19 figures and I put them on the 941 and send it together. And 20 I've got copies of everything. And, you know, first when I 21 called, they said that -- they gave me dates of when the 22 Schedule B -- I had paid them at certain dates, and to me, 23 that told me they had a Schedule B. They told me, "You paid 24 on such-and-such date. It should have been paid on 25 such-and-such date." How did they know if they didn't have a 9-11-06 68 1 Schedule B? I called later; I talked to somebody else, and 2 they said, "We couldn't read your Schedule B." The Auditor 3 calls; they said they don't have a Schedule B. So, you know, 4 with all the mistakes that I.R.S. makes, I'm not surprised 5 that we're getting different answers. But I will call Senator 6 Cornyn's office and see what can be done, if that's -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the way I'd do it if 8 it were me. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything further? 10 MS. NEMEC: No, I'm done. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 12 MS. NEMEC: Thank you. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: I have one -- at least one 14 participation form that could relate to this item from 15 Ms. Olden. Do you wish to be heard now, or wait until -- 16 MS. OLDEN: Wait until. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. That being the case, is there 18 anything any member of the Court wishes to offer with regard 19 to this? Any member of the public wish to be heard on this 20 particular agenda item? We'll be in recess for 15 minutes. 21 (Recess taken from 10:40 a.m. to 10:56 a.m.) 22 - - - - - - - - - - 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order, if we 24 might, and move to Item Number 8; consider, discuss, and take 25 appropriate action to satisfy I.R.S. Notice of Levy served on 9-11-06 69 1 depository bank of Kerr County funds. I put this item on the 2 agenda. The -- the levy that I'm referring to is not the 3 notice of levy dated May 8, 2006, which I discovered on the 4 20th day of July of this year in obtaining an Open Records 5 response to the Treasurer's office, but rather one dated 6 August the 30th, which was subsequent to the Treasurer's 7 August 23rd letter that was referred to in the preceding item. 8 That is an I.R.S. levy for $6,572.84 for the fourth quarter of 9 2005, as opposed to fourth quarter of '04 and third quarter of 10 '05 on the previous one. This was served on Security State 11 Bank and Trust, our depository bank, which required that bank, 12 if they weren't released from that levy within 21 days, to 13 send that money in. My best information is that that levy hit 14 Security State Bank, I believe, on the 1st day of September, 15 which means if we're going to act on it, we need to do so 16 today. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I have -- I have two 18 of them here. One is for 527, the other one for 6,500. And 19 tell me again why we're passing on 527? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, 527, the Treasurer addressed 21 that in an earlier agenda item, if you'll recall. She 22 referred to it in her correspondence to the I.R.S. three and a 23 half months later concerning that particular levy. And this 24 is just the one that was received less than two weeks ago, and 25 we've got a limited time to respond if we desire to respond. 9-11-06 70 1 They'll get a response from our depository bank if we don't do 2 something else. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let me see if I understand 4 the notice of levy. Tax period ended 12/31/2005. That's a 5 payroll date, I presume. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: It's a quarter. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Quarter. Unpaid balance of 8 assessment, 6,304.25. Is that tax withholding money that we 9 owe the I.R.S.? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't know for certain, but I don't 11 think so. I think it relates to a penalty imposed, as I 12 indicated in the last agenda item, because of apparent failure 13 to -- for I.R.S. to receive Schedule B, for which they impose 14 a failure-to-deposit penalty per regulation -- or per Circular 15 E, I guess. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let me follow through. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We're looking at a notice 19 of levy dated the last day of August this year, and it says 20 we've got an unpaid balance of 6,304.25, and it's been unpaid 21 since -- for nine months. And then there are statutory 22 additions. Is this additional penalty, 289.59? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: I assume that's penalty and interest, 24 yeah. And/or interest. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, this total of 6,572.84, 9-11-06 71 1 is penalty and/or interest being paid for -- being paid by 2 who? Kerr County? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Not employees? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: No. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Taxpayers. The question I have 7 is on the -- under the box, there's a sentence that says, 8 "Although we have told you to pay the amount you owe, it is 9 still not paid." Barbara -- is Barbara here? 10 MS. NEMEC: I'm here. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, have we not been in 12 communication with the I.R.S.? Or has your office not been in 13 communication with the I.R.S. since you were told there was -- 14 MS. NEMEC: Constantly. I have notes where I'm 15 constantly in communication with them. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But they have told you that 17 you owe -- or that the County owes $6,304, and you -- I mean, 18 and -- and you've been in communication with them, and they -- 19 MS. NEMEC: And when I -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess my question is -- make 21 sure that -- you know, it seems that there's -- I don't know 22 what the time period is, but evidently some time period to try 23 to work this out before the levy gets issued, and why wasn't 24 it worked out prior to the levy being issued? 25 MS. NEMEC: Well, I'm in constant communication with 9-11-06 72 1 them, and each time I talk to them, there's a next step to do 2 and a next step to do. When the Judge came and viewed my 3 records, he had copies of each time I talked to them and what 4 procedures were to be taken next. The problem that I'm 5 having, and that I touched on earlier, is that that notice was 6 issued July the 12th. I called them on July 17th, and I've 7 been calling them ever since and saying, Okay, this is what I 8 found, and they tell me, "Okay, send it to us," and on and on 9 and on. But this last week when I called was the first time 10 that I was told that they have on record where I called and I 11 said I was going to fax them that information on July 14th. I 12 don't have a fax number. I didn't call on July 14th; I called 13 on July 17th. They stated that I spoke to a Ms. Moore. I've 14 been speaking to Ms. Malby and then Mr. Benjamin or something 15 like that, last week. So, that's where my concern is, is that 16 either they have something wrong there, that someone is 17 calling, using my name -- or, you know, it could have been 18 July 17th and they put July 14th. But never did I say I would 19 fax anything to them. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there -- 21 MS. NEMEC: And he said that that was the result of 22 the levy. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is the -- there's not an office 24 in Kerrville, correct? 25 MS. NEMEC: No. 9-11-06 73 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: San Antonio is the nearest 2 office? 3 (Ms. Nemec nodded.) 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or Austin, obviously, the state 5 office. 6 MS. NEMEC: Right. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is this -- I mean, to me, the 8 course of action would be for you to go to San Antonio or 9 Austin, whichever office it needs to be, and resolve it. I 10 mean, and take all the backup and all the files you have, and 11 -- because, you know, I've never dealt with them on this 12 particular issue, but I have dealt with I.R.S. on the state 13 issues a lot, and they will sit down there and do the 14 correction in their office, and they'll do it. I mean, you 15 just take your -- as long as you have documentation, they'll 16 change it. 17 MS. NEMEC: I called the San Antonio office all day 18 Friday. They kept saying that their voicemail was full and 19 couldn't take any messages. And then when I called in the 20 afternoon, it would ring, ring, ring and then hang up, and 21 then that's when I called the local agent that I know of, and 22 she referred me to another number. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 24 MS. NEMEC: But I'm sure that if I just go down 25 there without an appointment and sit there, that they'll have 9-11-06 74 1 to see me. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Doesn't take that long, usually. 3 I mean -- I mean, that's what I would -- I mean, that's the 4 way I think it needs to be addressed, you know. Obviously, 5 before the 5th of May -- or 5th of October. 6 MS. NEMEC: They also told me that on the 22nd, the 7 bank depository is required to send them the 6,000, but when 8 they reviewed what I've sent in, then they will refund that 9 money back. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But if you can get it worked out 11 prior to the 22nd, they won't levy the funds. I mean, is that 12 your understanding? 13 MS. NEMEC: He said it can't be done prior to the 14 22nd; that it's going to take 45 days. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you dealing with people 16 by phone that are in Bensalem, Pennsylvania, or San Antonio? 17 MS. NEMEC: No, Pennsylvania. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That may be part of the 19 problem, too. 20 MS. NEMEC: Yeah. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I really think that if you go to 22 San Antonio and sit down with them, that they'll be able to 23 resolve it on the spot. I mean, I -- that's -- 24 MS. NEMEC: I'll be glad to go tomorrow. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I would try that. I 9-11-06 75 1 mean, I don't know what else -- at this point, what else can 2 be done, but I think that's the first step, is to go to the 3 San Antonio district office and -- and take all the 4 documentation. Say, "Here is the issue," and take all your 5 notes, "and how do we get this resolved?' Cause, you know, we 6 clearly don't want a levy on the -- well, the 22nd, you're 7 saying is the date that we -- 8 MS. NEMEC: I'll head up there first thing tomorrow 9 morning. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Barbara, they're wanting us 11 to send them a check for $6,572 and all that. What -- why not 12 send them a check for the additional 527? 13 MS. NEMEC: 'Cause we've already taken care of that. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We've paid it? 15 MS. NEMEC: Yes. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And we have a receipt? 17 MS. NEMEC: Mm-hmm. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, thank you. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Nemec, in follow-up review under 20 Open Records last week, you provided me with a copy of final 21 notice of intent to levy and notice of your right to a hearing 22 from I.R.S. That was dated July the 12th of this year. 23 What -- what response did you do in response to that final 24 notice of intent to levy? 25 MS. NEMEC: I called them on the 17th and discussed 9-11-06 76 1 the situation. That's when they gave me the due dates that 2 they have shown as the dates the payroll -- the liability 3 should have been paid. And that's when I explained to them -- 4 no, first of all, I wrote down the due dates on July 17th, and 5 then I told them that I would check my Schedule B and call 6 them back. But I already knew, just the dates that they were 7 giving me, that we had not had a payroll on those dates, and I 8 explained that to them. There was no way we could have paid 9 those payroll -- those tax liabilities, because we had no idea 10 what the tax liability was going to be yet. So she said, 11 "Research your records and call me back." I called her back. 12 I told her I had looked at my Schedule B and that, in fact, 13 you know, I had paid them the date of the payroll. And that's 14 when I told her that I would send her a copy of the Schedule B 15 with a spreadsheet showing the payroll date, the date that it 16 was paid, the date that Circular E says it's due, and the date 17 that they're showing due. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Attached to that final notice 19 of intent to levy was an account summary which you provided to 20 me which showed the $6,304.25, I guess. Do you recall that 21 item? 22 MS. NEMEC: I believe so, yeah. There was a -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: You had noted, I assume in your 24 handwriting, with an arrow pointed to that 6,304.25, of 25 assessed penalty. Apparently, that was some information you 9-11-06 77 1 received from the I.R.S. with regard to what that figure 2 consisted of, what it was for? 3 MS. NEMEC: I believe so. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 5 MS. NEMEC: Then, again, I talked to them last week 6 and they said once they reviewed what I have sent in, it will 7 take 30 to 45 days. They should be refunding us that amount. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Another question. In 9 response to Commissioner Baldwin's question about the 10 disposition of this May 8, 2006 levy of 527.01, you said it 11 been taken care of. It's been paid? 12 MS. NEMEC: Mm-hmm. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, we have paid penalty 14 and interest? For not -- because we didn't make payments on 15 time? 16 MS. NEMEC: Most of it was for tax payments. I 17 think it was a dollar something for the penalty and interest, 18 or two -- I -- $24. I don't remember. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Do you have this? 20 MS. NEMEC: I don't have that in front of me. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Did we use tax dollars to 22 pay penalty and interest? 23 MS. NEMEC: 31 -- $32, yes. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else, gentlemen? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- I mean, as a -- as a 9-11-06 78 1 resolution of this agenda item, Ms. Nemec said she's going -- 2 will go visit with the I.R.S. tomorrow. I'd like to hear a, 3 you know, response back, see if it's resolved. Because if 4 not, if it isn't resolved, we may have to have another 5 meeting, 'cause I think we need to get it resolved. And I 6 would be surprised if it can't be done with documentation, at 7 least, you know, one way or the other by tomorrow. It may 8 take a while, but -- 9 MS. NEMEC: So, do you want me to respond on the 10 next agenda, or call a special meeting? Or -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Memorandum is fine with me, the 12 results of the meeting. 13 MS. NEMEC: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If we need to meet, we can. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other member of the Court have 16 anything further to offer on this item? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, sir. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move, then -- thank you, 19 Ms. Nemec. 20 MS. NEMEC: Thank you. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move, then, to Item 9; 22 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to assert claim 23 on Treasurer's official bond for losses incurred or to be 24 incurred resulting from County Treasurer's failure to timely 25 file and/or pay sums due to Internal Revenue Service and/or 9-11-06 79 1 Texas County and District Retirement System as required by 2 applicable statutes, regulations, or rules. I put this matter 3 on the agenda to give the Court the opportunity to take 4 whatever action it thought was appropriate to recoup any 5 taxpayer funds that may have been paid as a result of -- of 6 sums that shouldn't have had to be paid in the first place. I 7 would note that -- it's probably not common knowledge to 8 everybody in the room, but members of this Court have some 9 knowledge that there was some difficulty earlier this year up 10 in Hill County with -- with their elected official, County 11 Treasurer, and some of the problems were IRS-related problems, 12 and others were things were not done in a timely manner. And 13 those Commissioners actually, last month, proceeded to 14 consider before their Commissioners Court the proceeding to 15 assert a claim on their official's bond. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What is the amount that has 17 been, I guess, paid and not refunded? I guess what's the 18 amount of tax dollars that we're talking about, total? I 19 mean, what -- whoever may know. 20 MS. NEMEC: For I.R.S., -- for I.R.S. is the $41, 21 because the five-something was actual taxes that we owed. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What about on the previous -- 23 wasn't there a previous levy we dealt with earlier in the 24 year? 25 MS. NEMEC: Those were all cleared up. Those were 9-11-06 80 1 all I.R.S. clerical errors. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Sheriff, did you get your money back 3 from I.R.S.? 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Not that I've ever heard of. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Not saying I didn't, but I 7 never saw it. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I notice you included 9 T.C.D.R.S. in this, Judge. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, sir. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's the -- what are the 12 issues with T.C.D.R.S.? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: There are, I believe, a total of four 14 instances where retirement payments were made late, and on 15 each occasion there was a $500 -- I don't think they called it 16 a penalty. They called it administrative late fee or 17 something. Plus there was a daily rate of interest. I think, 18 the total out-of-pocket actually charged against the 19 employees' pool over there was something like -- ballpark, 20 $2,500 is the figure that I have. 21 MS. NEMEC: What were the dates on that? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Pardon? 23 MS. NEMEC: What were the dates on that? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: The dates that those costs were 25 incurred? 9-11-06 81 1 MS. NEMEC: Mm-hmm. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: There were three of them in 2002 and 3 one of them 2005. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That became an assessment 5 against the accrued benefit pool? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, that's my understanding. Unless 7 it was paid separately, and I -- I don't have any information 8 to indicate that it, in fact, was -- was actually paid over 9 and above a charge against the pool -- Kerr County employees' 10 pool. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It wasn't satisfied out of 12 county tax dollars? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Well -- 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not directly satisfied. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: At least indirectly, it was. But -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Counts against -- I mean, that 17 balance is what's used to determine our contribution. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, yes. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I don't -- I don't know 23 how you -- I don't know to assert a claim on an official bond. 24 I know nothing about that. Never been through that before. I 25 need to know -- before I can vote on something like that, I 9-11-06 82 1 need to know about it. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: If we were making a claim 3 on costs that were incurred because of late payments in 2002, 4 we'd have claimed it timely. If we have a -- have a 5 legitimate claim. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Don't know, without -- I suspect if 7 you assert a claim, if -- if the surety on that bond wants to 8 raise a defense, they're certainly big boys and they're 9 capable of doing that. And my experience with bonding 10 companies is that sometimes they assert defenses that maybe 11 aren't even valid defenses. But I guess the point is, if you 12 don't assert a claim, you're sure as the dickens not going to 13 have any hope of recovering any taxpayer funds. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What would be -- what would 15 we be asserting a claim for, $41? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 2,541, I think. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 2,541? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Whatever those amounts are, yeah. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think you need to have a 20 specific -- I mean, I don't have any, really, problem with 21 asserting the claim. I think you need to be able to have the 22 specific instances. We have the I.R.S. one here, but on the 23 retirement system, we need to have the exact -- I'm sure we 24 can come up with it, so we're just saying some amount. We're 25 saying, here's the -- here's the backup of what we had to pay, 9-11-06 83 1 and you assert off of that. I mean, I don't want to just say 2 that let's just start asserting claims without having specific 3 backup. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: No, it's easy enough to determine the 5 aggregate amounts of each of those. And -- and the -- on the 6 I.R.S. situation, my thinking would be that you assert the 7 claim for the entire amount up to the limit of the bond. 8 Which, by the way, is only $15,000. And if it's something 9 they have a defense to; i.e., this was tax liability that you 10 owed anyway, let them assert that as -- as a defense to their 11 liability, as opposed to say a penalty or -- or interest 12 accrued. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But that would not -- doing 14 that as outlined would not take into account the most recent 15 August 30 notice of levy directed to Security State Bank in 16 the amount of 6,572. Is 6,300 of that amount taxes that have 17 not been paid? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Only thing -- 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which would have been 20 withheld from our employees? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: The only thing I have to go on, 22 Commissioner, is Ms. Nemec's notes that says "assessed 23 penalty" with an arrow pointing to that amount. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The statutory additions that 25 are listed in this notice of levy, 268.59, that would be P and 9-11-06 84 1 I, more than likely. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: And it could be penalty and interest 3 on penalty also, because of the time frame and failure to pay 4 timely. 5 MS. NEMEC: Let me remind -- 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where I'm going with the 7 question, Judge, is that if -- is that if Ms. Nemec is unable, 8 in a timely fashion, to resolve this issue with I.R.S. with 9 respect to when our payments are due, based on semiweekly and 10 whatever, then this dollar amount is still hanging out there. 11 If we're going to assert a claim, should this not also be 12 included? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: I think it should. And then if it -- 14 if it includes something -- if it includes some pure tax 15 liability, for example, that we're legitimately liable for, 16 the surety on the bond, the bonding company, can assert as a 17 defense, "You would have had to pay that anyway, so for that 18 portion of it, whatever that may be, we're not liable." But 19 it would then be incumbent upon them, when you assert the 20 claim for the entire amount that you actually paid, and we're 21 going to end up paying that one way or the other. If we don't 22 send them a check, they're going to levy -- they're going to 23 suck that out of our depository bank. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: And at that point, we've incurred it, 9-11-06 85 1 so we can then assert a claim for it. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What I'm still unclear on is 3 the six -- is the 6,572. How much of that amount is tax 4 dollars that have been withheld from employees that they may 5 be asserting we haven't paid? 6 MS. NEMEC: None of them. None of it. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: None of it? 8 MS. NEMEC: None of it. The way they came up with 9 that figure is, they're showing tax liabilities -- for 10 instance, November 9th, they're showing that we were supposed 11 to pay our tax liability on November 9th. We paid it on 12 November 11 -- November 15th, so they've taken November 9th to 13 November 15th and figured out a penalty and interest for that 14 amount. That's how they came up with each -- with that 15 $6,000. So, once they get and research everything, they said 16 they would be refunding us that money back, so I don't feel at 17 this point there has to be a claim on that part of it. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My preference would be to bring 19 it back at the next meeting with the exact amount. And -- and 20 copies of it would have to be submitted to the company anyway, 21 you know. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Of what we're going to do, and 24 by that time, this $6,500 will -- we'll know more than we know 25 today, based on if Ms. Nemec goes to I.R.S. tomorrow. 9-11-06 86 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Possibly. Possibly. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that's the approach, to 3 have the exact documents. 'Cause, I mean, it's worth filing 4 the claim on. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I just want to ask one 7 more question. I'm assuming that it's legal and right to 8 assert a claim as we're talking about. How -- how would that 9 affect the future bond? Is that going to cause the bond to 10 go -- the cost of the bond to go up? Or does it affect the 11 bonding in any way? Or -- 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm not in the bond underwriting 13 business; I couldn't tell you that, Commissioner, but I think 14 that may be a consideration. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It probably works kind of 16 like car insurance. Have a wreck, your insurance goes up. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, that's what I'm 18 wondering about. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it probably would affect 20 it. I'm not a bonder either. And the other thing I think 21 that needs to be looked at on this before we assert the bond 22 is that I think it's a bad precedent for a -- you know, a 23 mistake, I should say. I mean, every time an elected official 24 makes a mistake and it may cost money, I think you need to -- 25 this is a precedent that we're going to -- from then on, if 9-11-06 87 1 you -- from now on, every time there's a financial mistake by 2 an elected official, is that going to be a bond assertion? 3 Versus repeated incidents like this, which I think is a little 4 bit different. I mean, a one-time event, I think, is 5 different than an ongoing problem. And I think we just need 6 to be thinking of that as to long-term implications. The 7 Sheriff has a comment. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The only comment I have, as the 9 -- the one that employs probably most of the county employees 10 in this, I think what Jonathan said about Barbara going to 11 I.R.S. or making a sit-down with them and get this figured 12 out, we all know I've had a lot of problems with the 13 employees' stuff through my office, is I would like to make a 14 suggestion that a neutral party -- and we all understand 15 there's problems between, to be blunt about it, the County 16 Judge and Barbara, but I'd like to see another Commissioner go 17 to I.R.S. with them and get the straight deal on this one way 18 or another. Because it could end up involving future 19 investigations my office may or may not have to make. But I 20 would like to see something come back that doesn't continue 21 this one explanation against the other, and a neutral party 22 being somebody else on that Court to go down there and hear 23 what the truth is about this explanation. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move Bill Williams goes. 25 (Laughter.) 9-11-06 88 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. You can have the Ag 2 Barn back. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I get the Ag Barn back. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think you ought to hold a 5 meeting in January and send the Precinct 4 Commissioner. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, there you go. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's not a bad suggestion, 8 Sheriff, but it probably should be somebody with an accounting 9 background who knows and can help decipher this and work it 10 out, somebody like the gentleman that we retained to sort out 11 this step and grade business for the Sheriff's Department. 12 Somebody like that. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think your point's well-taken, 14 that it would be, you know, good to have another person there. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: We've got an Auditor that's on the 16 payroll. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, we do. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Intimately familiar with these 19 variations. So -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And San Antonio. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We can use the one we've 22 got. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That would be fine. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Olden, are we finally ready for 25 you? 9-11-06 89 1 MS. OLDEN: I think. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: If you'd give us your name and 3 address and tell us what's on your mind on this issue, I'd 4 appreciate it. 5 MS. OLDEN: Well, what's on my mind has changed 6 considerably after all of this intercourse, but my name is 7 Mary Olden. I live at 2016 Easy Street here in Kerrville; 8 have for the last 36 years. Never thought I'd ever get 9 involved in all of this. All of a sudden, I am. I wrote a 10 little speech, put some words together yesterday after I read 11 the Express News. I guess a lot of you may have read the 12 article in the Express News about our Treasurer and the 13 ongoing disagreements she's having with -- 14 AUDIENCE: Can't hear you. 15 MS. OLDEN: I'm sorry. But in listening to 16 everything that's going on here this morning, I'm pleased to 17 hear what I'm hearing from the Commissioners, their input, the 18 suggestions that are being made. I like the idea that there 19 should be someone else go with the County Treasurer to see the 20 I.R.S. and talk to the I.R.S. I worked in business; I've had 21 problems with the I.R.S. They're not infallible. They can 22 make mistakes. I can't believe they make them every few 23 months to the same entity. Probably others. I -- you know, 24 that can happen. I was concerned, and I asked Mr. Tomlinson, 25 since this is such a big employer, you do have some form of a 9-11-06 90 1 payroll program -- this is not working. You're not hearing 2 me; I can tell. Do you not -- I guess this isn't working, 3 'cause I don't hear myself. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm not sure it's on, 5 Ms. Olden. 6 MS. OLDEN: And I don't speak loudly, I'm sorry. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Get you a megaphone like 8 Rudee Vallee. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Give us a second, see if we 10 can turn it on. 11 MS. PIEPER: You just need to get closer to it. 12 MS. OLDEN: Am I on it? Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: There we go. 14 MS. OLDEN: Thank you. I asked Mr. Tomlinson about 15 their payroll program, because I have one and I have a much 16 smaller business than you all do. I worked for a group here 17 for many years, and they had a payroll program, and we never 18 had these problems. The programs themselves prepare the 19 reports, the quarterly reports that have to be filed. Your 20 Circular E, as you see, tells you when your deposits are due, 21 depending upon the amount of money that you have to deposit, 22 as Mr. Tomlinson already has told you. My question is, are 23 your quarterly reports filed electronically? And if not, why 24 not? I would think the I.R.S. would require it. I got up 25 this morning and rewrote what I had written yesterday, 'cause 9-11-06 91 1 I said I wanted to probably express my opinions a little 2 differently, and perhaps a little less harshly. But, 3 nonetheless, I still wanted to be plain. 4 There have been so many mistakes. I wonder why you 5 haven't considered some form of an audit of the Treasurer's 6 office to determine -- to put everything at rest. On her 7 part, as well. She's only one person, and she's having to 8 face the five of you and she's having to face all the 9 taxpayers, and the -- the writings in the newspapers don't 10 help anything. It doesn't help the County; it doesn't help 11 her. It all comes down to the fact that you have the 12 authority -- you don't have any authority to remove her from 13 office. She wants a pay increase, yet we're still seeing 14 these levies being filed. We don't know, as a group, as 15 taxpayers, how many more levies are coming down the road and 16 what for and why. I'm not at this moment anxious to see her 17 get a pay increase, since she has abdicated her human 18 resources duties to another lady, who is going to be for 19 another department that's had to be established by this -- by 20 this body at an additional expense to our taxpayers. So, I'm 21 not looking to see her getting more money. I think she should 22 get less money for the duties that are left to her to perform. 23 Hopefully, if the duties that are left to her to perform are 24 the employee payroll and the quarterly returns, and these 25 errors keep coming up, you'll think twice, again, about not 9-11-06 92 1 giving her a reduction in salary. 2 I've heard that some of the Commissioners feel that 3 you might reduce the salary to what -- your amount; I think 4 that's just a slap on the wrist. What the Judge suggested, to 5 me, at the moment is very generous. However, with what I've 6 heard this morning, I've heard you all making -- giving input 7 to this problem, and I can see that you're all interested and 8 concerned, and I suggest that you just keep on investigating 9 it before you make any final decision. Someone suggested to 10 me that perhaps you could have a line item for the Treasurer's 11 salary that was set aside for this new budget period, that 12 once all of the problems are settled -- I'm sorry, there's 13 someone talking behind me, so I'm listening to that as well. 14 Once all the problems are settled, then you could make a final 15 determination as to whether or not she is due a salary better 16 than what has been suggested by the Judge. 17 AUDIENCE: It's not on the agenda. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Sorry? 19 MS. OLDEN: I'm sorry, they're claiming I'm not -- 20 MS. NEMEC: The County Attorney -- I'd like the 21 County Attorney to explain if she is on the agenda item or 22 not, please. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: She actually filed a -- 24 MS. NEMEC: My pay is not on the agenda item. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't have the -- I'm sorry, I 9-11-06 93 1 misplaced the -- here it is. Here it is, the participation 2 form. 1.6 through 1.8. Mr. County Attorney? 3 MR. EMERSON: I think what she's addressing right 4 now is not within the agenda item, Judge. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: If you'd -- 6 MS. OLDEN: I'm sorry. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: If you have comments relating to -- 8 MS. OLDEN: But I did have comments. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I think this particular item relates 10 to claims against the County Treasurer that might be asserted. 11 MS. OLDEN: Uh-huh. Well -- 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Against her official bond. And I 13 apologize. You had filed to speak also with regard to the 14 I.R.S. problems and the levy also. 15 MS. OLDEN: That's fine. I apologize for that also. 16 Thank you. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Anyone else wish to be heard on this 18 particular item? Any member of the Court have anything -- any 19 formal action they want to offer at this time? Or are we 20 going to go with the suggestion, bring it back when we've got 21 the specific numbers? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Bring it back. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's go to Item 10, if we 24 might. Consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 25 provide a temporary and permanent relocation for Kerr County 9-11-06 94 1 Collections Department. Commissioner Williams, I believe 2 you put this on. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Judge. I did put 4 that on the agenda. We've had some informal discussions about 5 where to locate the Human Resources Department. Some will 6 believe we'd like to have it in close proximity to 7 Commissioners Court operation on the first floor, and there 8 may be some other thoughts as to where it should be. All I 9 did was bring it up here so we can see and get the show on the 10 road as to where we're going to house the Human Resources 11 Department. The County Clerk has offered some temporary space 12 if the Collections Department is to be moved, and the District 13 Clerk has offered a permanent solution which would require a 14 bit of -- modest bit of remodeling. So, I just throw it on 15 the agenda for the Court to make a decision. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can either you or Jannett go 17 over the temporary space? Is it to move Collections into your 18 area? 19 MS. PIEPER: Yes. I have a spot at the front 20 counter that I can put one of the employees, and then right as 21 you walk in on the left, where we used to have our probate, we 22 could clean out that little cubbyhole and put the other one. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would be temporary. 24 Ms. Uecker has offered space which is currently a men's and a 25 women's restroom facility upstairs in this building, which she 9-11-06 95 1 indicates is no longer utilized, or very little. Used very -- 2 MS. UECKER: Well, it is. It's just -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And what would be required 4 there would be to remove the fixtures, put a door through a 5 dry wall. 6 MS. UECKER: Well, and I thought of another place, 7 too. I have a storage -- one of the offices down in the 8 basement that I use for storage that I could clean out if -- 9 if the Court wanted me to do that. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Who would be inconvenienced 11 if you converted that restroom area into an office? 12 MS. UECKER: Well, I don't sit there and watch, see 13 who all goes in there. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Is it employees or jurors? 15 MS. UECKER: Some of both. The only reason -- I 16 know that it's utilized. The only reason I said that is 17 because there -- there are restrooms around the corner. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The new rest -- the 19 restrooms are new in the annex area. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I -- 21 MS. UECKER: But the office -- I'm sorry. The 22 office that I have downstairs is -- you know, it's fairly -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: See, that makes more sense to 24 me. That's a real office down there. I have officed down 25 there many years ago. Actually, it was under the men's room. 9-11-06 96 1 We used to bet to see if we could tell who it was that was 2 flushing right over our head. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Too much information. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Exactly. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But I'm not -- I'm not -- I 7 can't -- my mind can't get to where you have already jumped 8 out here of moving the Collections. It appears to me that 9 Collections needs to be near the court that it serves. And 10 Human Resources -- of course, we're just talking about 11 Collections today, but -- and the reason I think you're 12 talking about moving Collections is so we'll have that space 13 for Human Resources. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Someplace, yes. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're not just talking about 16 moving Collections just for fun. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Hmm-mm. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Moving Collections 19 somewhere to put Human Resources in there. It just seems to 20 me that the Collections Department needs to be next to the 21 court that it serves. I heard recently that Judge Brown even 22 suggested that we paint on the floor little arrows, you know, 23 for those folks to get from his office over to the Collections 24 so they don't get lost. I'd love to see those yellow feet 25 about this long painted there so they can get there. And if 9-11-06 97 1 we move it to a restroom -- (Laughter.) I mean, I -- 2 seriously, I'm not getting it. I can see -- I can see 3 Collections staying where it is and -- and Human Resource 4 office downstairs in one of those beautiful, beautiful little 5 complex of offices down there. 6 MR. TOMLINSON: Right. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Huh? That's the way I see 8 it. I don't see moving Collections. For -- for what reason? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't -- I mean, I agree. I 10 don't think it should go up where the restrooms are. Doesn't 11 make sense to renovate the restrooms. You know, I -- 12 MS. UECKER: I was thinking more of moving the 13 Treasurer downstairs. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: A good reason for -- and it 15 may not be the prevailing reason, but a good reason for having 16 the H.R. department here is that I'm expecting that between 17 the Commissioners Court coordinator and the H.R. department, 18 there'll -- there may be opportunities for sharing duties and 19 synergy and things like that. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, now, there's a reason. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That wouldn't exist if it 22 was a long ways away. Not -- may not be a good enough reason 23 to have it up here, but it's a reason. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, that's a reason. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: There's also a discussion of a shared 9-11-06 98 1 employee between Collections and the County Clerk's office. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which is another reason. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Which would, I think, validate 4 keeping Collections where it is. Commissioner Baldwin, I 5 think, has a very valid point. Approximately 80 percent of 6 the revenue that Collections generates is through the County 7 Court at Law, and we've got kind of a triangle, as it were, 8 like the women like to have in their kitchen. We've got the 9 court, we've got the clerk, and we've got the collections just 10 right there in one little module. And the suggestion I've 11 heard is also to cut a doorway -- passageway directly through 12 from the clerk's office into the Collections office to further 13 facilitate that occurring, and so there are a lot of good 14 reasons not to move the Collections Department from where it 15 is. 16 In my eye, unfortunately -- maybe it's because I let 17 my opinion in that regard be known. You know, we have these 18 liaison assignments, and I believe Commissioner Letz and 19 Commissioner Williams are the liaison with the airport, and 20 Commissioner Nicholson has the library and you've got EMS, and 21 that's where these -- those particular ideas are originally 22 staffed. I don't recall anybody coming to me, being the 23 courthouse Facilities and Maintenance liaison, as to what my 24 overall thoughts for a plan were. Maybe I didn't pay my 25 membership dues here. 9-11-06 99 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What are your thoughts, 2 Judge? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm going to give them to you, 4 Commissioner. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On maintenance? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm going to give them to you, 7 Commissioner. I've also -- I've given you part of them with 8 regard to relocating Collections upstairs, or anybody upstairs 9 in those restrooms. I think you've got a significant cost 10 factor. You're going to be decommissioning plumbing. You're 11 going to have to put in electrical and otherwise make it 12 suitable. I don't think you're going to have nearly as much 13 space as you thought you were. The other thing that occurs 14 about those restrooms upstairs, I don't think Ms. Uecker has a 15 head count of the number of folks that march in and out of 16 there. That space previously was part of the District Clerk's 17 office, and when this total renovation occurred upstairs in 18 the courthouse and there was an expansion of the courtroom and 19 other facilities up there, a decision was made to put those 20 restrooms in as part of that overall plan. And that being the 21 case, I can only assume that it was done to create some sort 22 of facilities plan to have available adequate and appropriate 23 restroom facilities. Another issue that comes to mind is 24 A.D.A. compliance. Those are A.D.A. compliant, again, at 25 considerable expense. And, you know, it's a shame to draw a 9-11-06 100 1 line through two restrooms only to discover that you don't 2 have adequate facilities in your building that you've put in 3 at considerable expense, and then later, at considerable 4 expense, decommission and maybe find yourself out of A.D.A. 5 compliance. We don't know what the cost figures are. 6 The proximity issue of why we need Human Resources 7 in close proximity to the Commissioners Court, our Human 8 Resources function has been, relative to the Collections 9 Department, not in close proximity for probably five years or 10 more. Seems to have worked okay there. The people that are 11 looking for Human Resources seems to be the employees, former 12 employees, retirees, and prospective employees, primarily, as 13 well as maybe vendors doing business, insurance, people of 14 that nature. I don't think it would be a -- a real burden on 15 them to learn where that is. It would occur to me that the 16 H.R. function could very well be performed where -- exactly 17 where it's being performed now, where there is adequate secure 18 record storage as is required for confidential or personal 19 medical records, HIPAA regulations, things of that nature. 20 There's a private office there that -- to have discussions of 21 a confidential nature, personal information, medical 22 information. All the records are there; just leave them 23 there. You could accomplish this whole fruit basket turnover, 24 as it were, with one move, and that would be to move the 25 Treasurer -- move her office down to space that was formerly 9-11-06 101 1 occupied by the County Attorney. That's what seems to make 2 more sense to me. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where's that? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Downstairs. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Probably just right below where 7 Miguel is sitting right now. It's space that the District 8 Clerk indicates she's got some records stored in there. She 9 can remove those records, and you're done. It's already -- it 10 was wired up for telephone and those sorts of things when the 11 County Attorney was down there. Don't worry about that. You 12 don't lose two restrooms. You don't have a bunch of 13 decommissioning and construction costs. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think anyone -- I mean, 15 he's against restrooms, I'm against restrooms, you're 16 against -- I think that's a dead issue. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I just want to thank 18 Ms. Uecker for the suggestion, but that's not going anywhere. 19 MS. UECKER: I'm just trying to help. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we're done with 21 restrooms. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's what you call a 23 "beeno." There'll be no office in the restrooms. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, where we are going to 25 put H.R., gentlemen? We've decided we're not putting it in 9-11-06 102 1 the restroom space upstairs. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there a -- is there not a 3 vault of sorts in the Treasurer's current office? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: There's a safe that can be moved, 5 yeah. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It can be moved? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, it's movable. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I wasn't sure if it was movable. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You know, my -- I don't have a 11 problem with the Judge's offer on moving the Treasurer. I 12 think that the problem I have with putting H.R. in this 13 building downstairs or below us is that it's hard to find. I 14 mean, you know, and I think you -- with new employees, there 15 needs to be some ease to get to it. I mean, I prefer it to be 16 close to Commissioners Court, but it appears there's a very 17 strong sentiment against moving Collections, so, I mean, it's 18 not that important to me. So -- but I think you need to have 19 it somewhat accessible. And the basement is not, in my mind, 20 extremely accessible. Either that, or we need to redo the 21 signage down there so you can figure out how to get there. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Now, that may be an issue, but it's 23 worked for the last five-plus years. That's where H.R. has 24 been. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, I'm talking about moving 9-11-06 103 1 H.R. to the basement. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'd rethink that. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: No, not below this -- where we are 4 sitting here, no. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Our H.R. Director needs a 6 good office. We've got -- after remodeling, we have good 7 offices around here. The closest thing that comes to mind 8 right now that's available without major changes and 9 remodeling is where the Treasurer is. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If that's the pleasure of 11 the Court, we need to make it as a court order and get on with 12 it. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Needs to be available by 14 October 1. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Does the agenda item provide 16 language for us to do all the above? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: I think it does not, not do all of 18 the above. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, there's actually no 20 action. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. We'll take it, bring 22 it back, unless we need a court order. Okay. 23 MS. UECKER: Could I -- could I insert one other 24 little thing? As far as those offices downstairs, I do know 25 that where Parole meets is actually bigger than the office 9-11-06 104 1 that I have, because Collections was down there with two and 2 maybe three desks at one time in that -- at that one side 3 office there, and it's actually better situated right now for 4 an office. I need -- I know where I am, there's some plumbing 5 pipes showing and there -- there's going to take some work. 6 But, you know, I'm -- just wanted to let y'all know, in case 7 you haven't been down there, where Parole is is a little -- 8 not quite twice as large as the one -- the room I have, but 9 you might want to put Parole where I am, and -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: I would -- one or the other. It's 11 not going to necessitate the fruit basket turnover of county 12 offices. May require Parole to make one move, but I think 13 they could do that easily if that's -- if that's the 14 preference. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm not even sure you need 16 a court order. Just exercise your discretion as the liaison. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's right. He's got the 18 power. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Somebody passed -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But that's all you get. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Somebody over here passed up 22 that note to us, Judge. Not my scribbling. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think you need to start 24 exercising your power, but I think you should get a court 25 order. 9-11-06 105 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Both. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If it can be done without a 3 court order, fine. If it needs to have a court order, I'll 4 bring it back next time. You tell me. 5 (Discussion off the record.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything further on that one, 7 gentlemen? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What are we going to do? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can't act today. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But, I mean -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Not for the whole plan. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are you going to use your 13 authority to make this big switch on your own? Or do you want 14 Bill to bring it back for a court order? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The Judge is liaison on the 16 Maintenance; he can take care of it. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm going to move forward on it. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay? 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Good. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything further on that item, 22 gentlemen? Let's move to Item 11, if we might. Consider, 23 discuss, and take appropriate action to approve revision of 24 plat for Lots 7A and 8, Treasure Hills Ranch, as set forth in 25 Volume 5, Page 50, Plat Records, and Volume 5, Page 397, Plat 9-11-06 106 1 Records. 2 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. This -- this revision of plat 3 was done under the alternate plat process, and a public 4 hearing was done August the 28th of 2006. There are only 5 three lots involved, and all lots are over 5 acres. Mr. and 6 Mrs. Huie have furnished us with a letter stating there are no 7 liens on the property. Therefore, I recommend that you accept 8 this plat as requested. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We've had the public hearing? 10 MR. ODOM: Yes. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is really the final 12 step. 13 MR. ODOM: This is the final step, sir. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for approval. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 17 of the agenda item. Any question or discussion? All in favor 18 of that motion, signify by raising your right hand. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's move 23 to Item 12; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 24 set a public hearing for the revision of plat of Lots 13-A and 25 13-B of Riverside Park, as set forth in Volume 7, Page 251, 9-11-06 107 1 Plat Records, located in Precinct 4. 2 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. This revision of plat is being 3 done under the alternate plat process. It is currently two 4 lots and will become three lots, and all lots are over 5 5 acres. At this time, we ask the Court to set a public 6 hearing for 10 a.m. October the 10th, 2006. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I move to approve and set a 8 public hearing for 10 a.m. on October 6th -- did you say 6th? 9 MR. ODOM: October the 10th. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: October 10th, 2006, on 11 revision of plat for Lots 13-A and 13-B of Riverside Park. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 14 of the agenda item to set a public hearing on the revision of 15 plat for Lots 13A and 13B of Riverside Park for 10 a.m. on 16 October the 10th, 2006. Any question or discussion on the 17 motion? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question on the road. 19 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. I knew you would ask me that. 20 That's a good question, sir. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can you explain that little road 22 situation? 23 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. In 2004, Franklin submitted -- 24 if you received that first page, as platted, 13-A and 13-B, 25 there was -- the Court allowed a 20-foot private road or an 9-11-06 108 1 easement to 13-B. And now, coming back -- that was already 2 established in 2004, and what they're trying do is clean this 3 up. 13-A is actually buying 13-C, and the individual -- that 4 20-foot easement stays exactly where it's at; it hasn't been 5 moved whatsoever. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, really, what's changing 7 doesn't -- 8 MR. ODOM: It is a private easement. Pardon me. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The road's not impacted. We're 10 just -- 11 MR. ODOM: No. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Not impacted at all. 13 MR. ODOM: It was a unique situation, and we did 14 meet and go over with the Commissioner, and this has been 15 changed a little, what they were doing, but this is the 16 outcome, and I think it'll work. Franklin agreed -- you know, 17 the Court did this in 2004. It was acceptable. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other -- 19 MS. THOMPSON: You have a motion and a second. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Any further question or 21 discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify 22 by raising your right hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 9-11-06 109 1 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's move 2 to Item 13; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 3 amend Kerr County Subdivision Regulations to include an 4 additional exemption to the platting process. Mr. Odom, and 5 you have some support here with you in the audience? 6 MR. ODOM: I believe Mr. Digges is here. I would -- 7 I guess probably the best thing to do, Charlie, is to give my 8 time to you to let you address the Court, and then if there's 9 any questions there, I'll be more than happy to -- unless the 10 Court would like to ask me. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Let me make a comment first. I 12 think we're already doing this outside of subdivisions. 13 Outside of subdivisions, I think we are -- the way we are 14 interpreting the rules, there is already a provision that 15 allows adjusting lot lines -- or property lines, not lot 16 lines. Adjusting property lines without it triggering the 17 platting process. Inside subdivisions, I have -- one, I'm 18 going to be opposed to it, 'cause then we're going to start 19 getting plats that aren't accurate again, which we've been 20 working as long as I've been a Commissioner to try to resolve 21 that, and two, I don't know if -- as I read it, I'm not -- I 22 don't know how Rex reads the law, but as I read the law, we 23 can't do this. Rex? 24 MR. EMERSON: I concur. How's that? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. We can't do it. We can't 9-11-06 110 1 make the change inside of subdivisions; the law is very clear. 2 We have to do a public hearing process on any revision. 3 MR. ODOM: I agree. We don't have the authority or 4 the manpower that the City does. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We don't -- 6 MR. ODOM: The City has that power and we don't. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Also, to answer the question, 8 Charlie, you're -- by law, we can't do it in subdivisions, and 9 we're already not doing it outside of subdivisions. 10 MR. DIGGES: Okay, I think that would be fine. So, 11 outside the subdivisions, we can move these -- move lot or 12 tract lines that are described by metes and bounds? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, property lines. Outside 14 subdivisions, lot lines can be adjusted, and that does not 15 trigger platting. 16 MR. DIGGES: Okay. Then I think we have a -- 17 MR. ODOM: I think you have an answer to that. 18 Anything that's platted, no. 19 MR. DIGGES: Right. 20 MR. ODOM: But if it's outside that, yes. And then 21 if we're not creating any other -- any other lots, then we're 22 all right; we can move that line. 23 MR. DIGGES: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And you also, I mean, need to 25 follow all the other provisions. But if you're just adjusting 9-11-06 111 1 a property line between two property owners and there's no, 2 really, sale going on, that's fine. 3 MR. DIGGES: Yes. Just, you know, so oftentimes, 4 because of a driveway, or they want to make an extension to 5 the house and it's the best direction to go, they want to 6 purchase a small strip. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the concern is that, since 8 it's less than 10 acres, it's a division of -- could be 9 construed as a division of property, and we're not construing 10 it that way. We're not -- I don't think that's what the -- 11 the exemption says, because I think there's an exemption that 12 talks about if the parties remain the same or something like 13 that, you know. Or one party keeps the interest and the other 14 parties -- 15 MR. ODOM: Yeah, it's under 1.03 there. Somehow -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's an exemption. 17 MR. ODOM: We had that one incident before down 18 toward your area. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know why the law is 20 there, but I'm glad it is. I just like the idea of 20 years 21 down the road, when a question comes up about a piece of 22 property, we'll have records in this courthouse of what line 23 is where and what's been removed and all that. I just think 24 that is so important. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the -- the intent of the 9-11-06 112 1 law makes a lot of sense. I think it's -- you know, but 2 it's -- it's no discretion whatsoever. The law is you don't 3 want people to be buying into a subdivision and then changing 4 the subdivision without people being aware of it. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, absolutely. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's the reason for it. And 7 it's a very good reason. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It is. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think this is the 10 intent. I think it's caused a little bit of cost on these lot 11 line adjustments, but I think the -- the law's the law. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything further on that Item 13 13? Let's move to Item 14; consider, discuss, and take 14 appropriate action to abandon, vacate, and discontinue the 15 plat of Live Springs Ranch as set forth in Volume 7, Pages 190 16 and 191, and located in Precinct 4. 17 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. Attached you will find a 18 letter from the owner of Live Springs Ranch and his surveyor 19 requesting Live Springs Ranch, Volume 7, Page 190 through 191, 20 be vacated on September the 25th of 2006. However, we did not 21 receive the request until August 31st, 2006. Voelkel 22 Engineering must vacate this plat before a final can be given; 23 the hope to present the final plat on September 25th of 2006. 24 The developer owns all the property, but there is another 25 piece of property outside this -- this platted subdivision 9-11-06 113 1 that has access by a road. Considering the Court's schedule, 2 this date, September the 11th, 2006, was the first date to 3 request this action. That's the reason we're here. The way 4 the new Subdivision Rules are worded, it appears that there 5 does not need to be a public hearing, just an advertisement to 6 vacate the plat before the action can be taken. This is for 7 abandonment of -- of a plat. Our policy has been to set, and 8 previously we have always come to the Court to set a public -- 9 a public hearing at the first available court date, with at 10 least a 30-day span. Immediately following the public 11 hearing, we present the action to be taken. We would like to 12 know which route the Court prefers. 13 I would -- under the circumstances, my understanding 14 is that the individual that has access -- I found this out 15 Friday afternoon, that this individual that has access on this 16 public road is aware of it, what Don Voelkel told me. So, he 17 said that they did contact him before they came to us with it, 18 and I wasn't aware of that until Friday. But how would the 19 Court -- if this is legal, talking to Rex, under their certain 20 circumstances, if that individual is there -- and I won't put 21 words in your mouth, but under the circumstances, I'm under 22 the impression they can do this without going to the Court. 23 The question would be, would that be proper without the Court 24 knowing what's happening? I just bring up a -- bring 25 something up on the 25th, and you really haven't been 9-11-06 114 1 presented with anything. I would like to know what your 2 procedure would be. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Whatever it takes to have 4 clear records in 20 years. 5 MR. ODOM: Well, would a concept plan be the -- the 6 appropriate way to do it? And then go from 25 days 7 thereafter? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm confused. 9 MR. ODOM: Well, I -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I am too. Leonard, what were 11 you saying about a property owner on a public road had been 12 notified? 13 MR. ODOM: Well, apparently, that Live Springs 14 originally had nine lots to it. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 16 MR. ODOM: And an individual owned this property. 17 And part of the agreement was that he had a road easement -- 18 he had an easement, which was the main road that went in, 19 okay? And this was part of the original deal back when, I 20 believe, Imel and them had this back in -- sometime in 2000. 21 Now they wish -- it's been acquired by the McCombs family -- 22 to be expanded, not only redesigned, but going from our county 23 into Gillespie County. And so the question would be, all 24 right, if they abandon it, then all the property is owned by 25 one family, the McCombs family, so there's not a reason why 9-11-06 115 1 you couldn't abandon the plat. The question would be the road 2 access. And they -- Voelkel told me that -- that that has 3 been resolved with the property owner. I mean, he has no 4 problem; they're not vacating the road. They're going to 5 vacate the plat -- the lots. And I don't -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Isn't the road part of the plat? 7 MR. ODOM: That -- the road is part of the plat. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You can't -- if you vacate it, 9 you vacate it. I mean -- 10 MR. EMERSON: I think that that's an issue by 11 itself, is whether that property owner would object to the 12 cancellation of this subdivision. And the problem that's 13 involved in this is that, in an effort to try to finish by the 14 25th, the developer and the surveyor and whoever else 15 published notice of a public hearing for the 25th without a 16 public hearing ever being set by this Court. You know, and I 17 may just be reading it too literally, but I think by doing 18 that, if they proceed to a full hearing for cancellation on 19 the 25th, they're creating a voidable order of the court. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I am really lost now. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 22 MR. EMERSON: In other words, you need 25 days 23 notice by publication. 24 MR. ODOM: From this Court. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. They can't publish. 9-11-06 116 1 MR. EMERSON: This Court has to set the date. 2 MR. ODOM: The publication. 3 MR. EMERSON: And then proceed from there. It would 4 be like me walking in and saying, you know, I really -- next 5 week I'd like the Court to cancel my subdivision, so I just 6 kind of put my own newspaper notice in there prematurely and 7 hope you do it. 8 MR. ODOM: And then you find out 25 days later that 9 you've got a subdivision; you don't know anything about it. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think I'm probably the 11 culprit in this. My reading of the Subdivision Rules 12 suggested to me that we could issue -- make the announcement 13 of public hearing and then proceed to fix that later, so I 14 must be wrong about that. 15 MR. ODOM: Well, that's what I told them before, but 16 they proceeded on. That was my -- I'm not a lawyer. So, I -- 17 I felt like that was wrong, and that we should -- that's the 18 reason this agenda item is here to come before the Court. And 19 I have no problems for setting up or vacating the plat, but 20 it -- by my rules, it would be October the 10th. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think we -- 22 MR. ODOM: 2006. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Based on what Commissioner 24 Letz said, we've got to back up and do it right. And -- 25 MR. EMERSON: I did talk to the Voelkels -- 9-11-06 117 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think me and Mr. Voelkel 2 made the decision. That's why he's not here. 3 MR. ODOM: Not surprised. 4 MR. EMERSON: I was going to say, I did talk to the 5 Voelkels last week, and we discussed this issue thoroughly, 6 and they understood where I was coming from. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: That may be why they're not here. 8 Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Leonard, is there a -- I'm 10 still not clear on what you're talking about. 11 MR. ODOM: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is there another property 13 owner that's outside of this subdivision? 14 MR. ODOM: There is an adjacent property owner that 15 has access through this subdivision that's being requested to 16 be -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And if we abandon this thing, 18 then we're cutting him off? 19 MR. ODOM: Well -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: From his ingress-egress? 21 MR. ODOM: -- if he has an agreement already, prior, 22 an easement there, I -- it really gets in a gray area. Then 23 Voelkel might be right. But, to me, if you vacate the plat, 24 you vacate everything. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. Sure, the road's 9-11-06 118 1 part of the plat. That's -- 2 MR. ODOM: Well, that's the way I -- I don't know 3 how you just do the vacating of the lots themselves without 4 the road. I'm not a lawyer. I just -- I'm a layman. I'm an 5 Aggie, so I -- 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He's an Aggie. 7 MR. EMERSON: We did win over the weekend. 8 MR. ODOM: He stayed in school two weeks longer than 9 I did. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Procedurally, what we need 11 to do, then, is set up a public hearing more than 30 days from 12 now. 13 MR. ODOM: Counting what -- if I take today and go 14 30 days, then October the 10th, 2006, and I believe -- well, I 15 said today. Counting today, if you use the analogy of today 16 and 30 days, it would be October the 10th. Otherwise, it 17 would be another two weeks. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You only need -- actually, you 19 only need 21 days. 20 MR. ODOM: Pardon me? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You need 21 days by the statute 22 for this particular notice. 23 MR. ODOM: 25, you mean? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 21. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 21. 9-11-06 119 1 MR. ODOM: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: My reading of this item 3 says we've got the leeway to set that public hearing, so I'm 4 going to make a motion that on October 10, 2006, at 2 a.m., we 5 conduct a public hearing on order of the Court to abandon, 6 vacate, and discontinue Live Springs Ranch. Am I on the wrong 7 thing? 8 MR. ODOM: No, sir, but your timeline sure is long. 9 I mean, we have -- you set it at 2 o'clock in the afternoon. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: No, he said "a.m." 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In the morning. 12 MR. ODOM: Oh, 2 a.m. in the morning. Can I have 13 Truby represent me then? (Laughter.) 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let me amend that to 15 10 a.m. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: I think we've already just set one 17 for 10 a.m. 18 MR. ODOM: How about 10:05? 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay, at 10:05 a.m. I'm 20 going to be on a cruise either way, so -- 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: October 10th? 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah, 10 a.m., public 23 hearing. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to set a 9-11-06 120 1 public hearing for October 10, '06, at 10:05 a.m. to -- for 2 action to abandon, vacate, and discontinue a plat of Live 3 Springs Ranch. Any question or discussion on the motion? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just a comment. But, Leonard, 5 as I -- from what they're trying to do, we can have the 6 hearing, we can vacate it, and we can do the final all at the 7 same time, at the same meeting. 8 MR. ODOM: I believe so. Just have three different 9 agenda items. Public hearing, -- 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So they're not delayed. 11 MR. ODOM: -- vacate -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Delayed two weeks. 13 MR. ODOM: -- and do a final. And they're putting 14 up a Letter of Credit is -- is the way we're going to -- the 15 way they're going. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Better check to make sure they 17 have enough. 18 MR. ODOM: Two-point -- nevermind. I believe I 19 could build a road for what they have. I don't want to, but I 20 could. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is probably unwritten, 22 but I just always felt like one of the duties of the 23 Commissioners Court is to make sure people have ingress-egress 24 to their property, so I just want to be careful that we're not 25 cutting some guy off, the ability for him to get to his house. 9-11-06 121 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: This public hearing will 2 give him an opportunity. 3 MR. ODOM: And there's -- and there's a circumstance 4 that's even following this. It's similar to that. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Does it -- no, I'm not reading 6 this again. There's no requirement here that we notify all of 7 the individuals? 8 MR. ODOM: If we do it this way, there is no 9 requirement to notify. If we go the public notice, there is. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 11 MR. ODOM: And that's the kicker that I had, that 12 that individual, even though he didn't own anything in that 13 subdivision, was not being notified. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I mean, the public -- even 15 with the public notice, I think it -- because of Commissioner 16 Baldwin's concern, which I share, you may want to have someone 17 from your office contact the individual or get a letter from 18 them to make sure that he is aware of this, from the 19 standpoint of, legally, the fact that we don't have to give 20 notice is sufficient, but I think we want to make sure that 21 the individual who uses that road is aware that that hearing 22 is taking place, and if he wants to come make a comment, he 23 can. 24 MR. ODOM: That can be handled, sir. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And, Leonard, we're -- I 9-11-06 122 1 think the Court is saying we want to help the McCombs in their 2 effort to vacate and abandon this subdivision, but we want to 3 make sure we do it the correct way. 4 MR. ODOM: Do it correctly, that there's nothing 5 that comes back on anybody. We're not opposed to the project; 6 it's a good project. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Is that it on that one? Let's 9 move to Item 15; consider, discuss, and take appropriate 10 action -- 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Did we take action? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I know there's a motion and 13 second. 14 MS. THOMPSON: We have a motion and second. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We didn't vote yet. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: A thousand pardons. Any further 17 question or comment on the motion? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, hold on. Let me figure 19 out what the motion was. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Public hearing. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Public hearing. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Very good. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: You ready? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All in favor of the motion, signify 9-11-06 123 1 by raising your right hand. 2 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 4 (No response.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We'll now 6 move to Item 15; consider, discuss, and take appropriate 7 action -- 8 MR. EMERSON: Quick question, Judge. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes? 10 MR. EMERSON: Does that motion include publication 11 for the notice? Since it's required to be published 21 days 12 before and says Commissioners Court shall publish? 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's just procedure. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, I think so. 15 MR. EMERSON: Okay. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, Item 15. Consider, discuss, 17 and take appropriate action for revision of plat for Lots 79, 18 80, 81, 82, and 83 of The Woods, Section Two, as set forth in 19 Volume 4, Page 176, and located in Precinct 2. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mr. Odom? 21 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. The public hearing for these 22 lots was held on August the 28th, 2006. This revision will 23 make three lots instead of five. The Court instructed the 24 Kilgores to get with Miguel to be sure the septic would work 25 on the smaller lot. The Kilgores have furnished us a letter 9-11-06 124 1 of credit and will have one year to build the cul-de-sac to 2 specifications. They plan to build a home on Lot 79-R, and 3 would like to wait until the construction is completed before 4 they build the cul-de-sac so that heavy trucks will not damage 5 it. We don't have a problem with that. All other criteria 6 has been met, so at this time, we ask that you approve this 7 revision of plat. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And Environmental Health 9 signed off on the septic? 10 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir, they sure did. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 14 approval. Any question or discussion? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I got a question. In the -- 16 in the letter from -- Leonard, from you to us -- yeah, to us, 17 it says that you -- someone would like to wait until 18 construction is completed before they build the cul-de-sac so 19 heavy trucks will not damage it. And, of course, I agree with 20 that; that makes sense. But I'm wondering, does the letter of 21 credit assure us that the cul-de-sac will be built if we wait? 22 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. I mean, basically, it -- it's 23 -- we can file on the letter of credit. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 25 MR. ODOM: If he doesn't do that. 9-11-06 125 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Make sure the money's there to 2 build it. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, okay. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other question or comment on the 5 motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your 6 right hand. 7 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 9 (No response.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's move 11 to Item 16; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action for 12 the concept plan to revise Lot 5 of Creekwood Section IV, as 13 set forth in Volume 6, Page 290, and set a public hearing for 14 the same, located in Precinct 2. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mr. Odom? 16 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. This is a concept plan. The 17 owners on either side of this lot have purchased it and would 18 like to divide it under the alternate plat process. The 19 division appears to meet all the requirements of Kerr County 20 Subdivision Rules. As we are still learning the new rules and 21 how they apply to different size lots, we're not sure whether 22 this plat needed to be signed by Environmental Health, since 23 each lot will be over 25 acres. At this time, we ask that you 24 set a public hearing for this revision of plat for October the 25 10th, 2006, at 10:15 a.m. 9-11-06 126 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to set a 4 public hearing for October the 10th, 2006, at 10:15 a.m. Any 5 question or discussion on the motion? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: In answer to your question, yes, 7 it does. I think any plat requires -- 8 MR. ODOM: Well, I was thinking that it did. Used 9 to be exempt, but at this point -- 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All of them have to go to 11 Environmental Health. Is this the location in Creekwood IV 12 that we keep on having problems with? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is 5. This is the part 14 way back in the back. 15 MR. ODOM: Back in the back -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's not the one -- 17 MR. ODOM: -- part of it. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, this is back behind all 19 the open areas. This is moving -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is not the Burgess area? 21 MR. ODOM: No, this is not. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments? All 23 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 9-11-06 127 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We'll move to 3 Item 17. Consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 4 rescind Court Order Number 29827 to abandon, vacate, and 5 discontinue Privilege Creek as set forth in Volume 7, Pages 6 136 and 137 of Plat Records, and located in Precinct 3. 7 Mr. Odom? 8 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. In your packet, you have the 9 documentation from the counselor, who is present, Mr. Jackson, 10 explaining the need to keep the Privilege Creek Subdivision as 11 platted until such time as the owners have submitted a new 12 preliminary plat for Falls Ranch. At this time, we ask that 13 you rescind Court Order Number 29827, leaving Privilege Creek 14 Subdivision as recorded in Volume 7, Page 136 through 137. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move to approve. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 18 of the agenda item to rescind Court Order Number 29827 and 19 leave intact the plat of Privilege Creek as set forth in 20 Volume 7, Page 136 -- Pages 136 and 137 of the Plat Records. 21 Any question or discussion on the motion? All in favor of the 22 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 23 (Commissioners Baldwin, Williams, and Nicholson voted in favor of the motion.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 9-11-06 128 1 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Abstained. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Why don't we -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I abstained. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, yeah. Why don't we be in 6 recess for lunch until about a quarter until 2:00. We'll come 7 back and handle the rest of this agenda, as well as the 8 reports that are scheduled. 9 (Recess taken from 12:15 p.m. to 1:45 p.m.) 10 - - - - - - - - - - 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order. We 12 were in recess for lunch. Let's move to the next item on the 13 agenda, Item 18. Consider, discuss, and take appropriate 14 action to amend the start date for the H.R. Director, Eva 15 Hyde, from October 2, 2006, to October 1, 2006. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, it was called to my 17 attention that the October 2 date would -- would make Ms. Hyde 18 have to wait almost two months for health care, whereas if she 19 were -- her start date was October 1 -- there's a 30-day 20 waiting period, so if you had October 2, that means you'd have 21 to wait 59 days. So, I placed it on the agenda to see if we 22 could -- 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move to approve. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 9-11-06 129 1 of the agenda item. Any question or discussion? All in favor 2 of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's move 7 to 19; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on audit 8 engagement for Kerr County for fiscal year ending September 9 30th, 2006. I put this on the agenda in collaboration with 10 the County Auditor. We received a proposal from Pressler, 11 Thompson and Company concerning engagement for the annual 12 audit as required by law. The only question that I have is, I 13 think there are several components to how this audit's going 14 to be paid for. Some of it comes out of Juvenile Probation, 15 some of it comes out of Adult Probation, and then the majority 16 of it comes from this Court; is that correct, Mr. Auditor? 17 MR. TOMLINSON: That's correct. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: And do you have those numbers? 19 MR. TOMLINSON: 4,000 of it's paid for by Adult 20 Probation. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 22 MR. TOMLINSON: 1,200 from Juvenile. The balance is 23 from the County. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: So, the amount we have in our current 25 proposed budget is adequate to cover the County's share of 9-11-06 130 1 that cost? 2 MR. TOMLINSON: 25,000. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: How does this compare to 5 what -- total cost compare with the previous year total cost? 6 MR. TOMLINSON: Same. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I got a question, Judge. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We don't have to take this 9 out for bid, because it's professional services? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a question. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How many -- how many years 13 has Pressler Thompson been doing our audit? 14 MR. TOMLINSON: Probably six to eight years. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I ask the question because 16 many government agencies change every five years to a separate 17 -- a different auditor. So, I don't have anything against 18 Pressler Thompson -- for or against, but I just raise the 19 question. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We put it out for bid, didn't 21 we, about four years ago? Three years ago? Seems that we've 22 just -- 23 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't remember. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Seems that we've done it once 25 since I've been a Commissioner, went out for bid. 9-11-06 131 1 MR. TOMLINSON: I'm sure -- think for sure we have 2 some -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Say again? 4 MR. TOMLINSON: I said I think for sure that we've 5 done that since Commissioner Letz has been here. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I share your concern. I 7 think it is probably preferable, anyway, to change auditors 8 every so often so you don't get too close a relationship. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that's the whole 10 purpose of another agency doing it. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have a question. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, sir? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: On Page 1 of the proposal, 14 about halfway down, there's a Number 1 and a Number 2. Is 15 this something new? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where it says Management 17 Discussion and Analysis and Budgetary Comparisons? What page 18 are you on? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: First page of the letter. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: First page, right after 21 Number 2, Budgetary Comparison Schedules, Schedule of 22 expenditures of federal awards. I just don't recall -- is 23 this something new? 24 MR. TOMLINSON: Not new. We've had it for -- it's 25 to include single audit for federal funds that exceed -- if we 9-11-06 132 1 have federal funds that exceed $500,000, we do a special 2 audit. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: That's one of the prerequisites of 5 that particular funding program, is it not? That there be 6 a -- 7 MR. TOMLINSON: Right, they're all -- all those, the 8 requirements for any federal fund grant's the same. If the 9 cumulative amount of all your grants exceed 500,000, then you 10 have to have a single audit. We've done that -- in fact, year 11 before last, we had our -- our funds exceeded 500,000. They 12 did not last year. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. So they didn't do 14 this part last year? 15 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Got a keen eye, Commissioner. Keen 18 eye. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do. Actually, it was 20 something totally different than what I thought, but -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Don't say that. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: What -- I guess, particularly from a 23 timeline standpoint, number one, what are your thoughts about 24 going out for RFQ's again, and where's that going to put us 25 time-wise? That's probably going to take -- by the time we 9-11-06 133 1 get the proposals out, get them back, evaluate them, and make 2 an award, we're probably at least 60 days down the road, maybe 3 closer to 90. How's that going to affect us insofar as being 4 able to be timely on our audit? 5 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, we -- we start gathering 6 information next month. We -- we send out confirmations in 7 October. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: What are your thoughts about going 9 out for RFQ this year? 10 MR. TOMLINSON: I'd rather wait to give plenty of 11 time. I'd like to -- I'd like to do it, like, in December or 12 January for the next year. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, that would be for '07-'08, then, 14 you're talking about? 15 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Then am I correct in -- in assuming 17 that you think we're a little bit late in the game for this 18 immediate past -- or soon will be this immediate past fiscal 19 year? 20 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, in my experience in audit 21 firms, -- 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: -- they have a schedule, and they're 24 -- they're booked -- their schedule is from -- from now 25 through probably December or January. 9-11-06 134 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 2 MR. TOMLINSON: So I think we'd run into an issue of 3 not -- maybe not getting enough interest, because they 4 don't -- they might not have the time to put in on it. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, I'm with you. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, this needs to be on our -- 7 probably in January or February? 8 MR. TOMLINSON: Right. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: If we're going to submit requests for 10 qualifications. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's fine. Just wanted to 12 raise the question. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: It's a good point. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are you going to put it on 15 the -- get the word to Kathy, Commissioner, to bring it back 16 around then? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The Auditor can bring it 18 back. He knows what -- 19 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah, sure. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I don't think I have a motion 21 at this point. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We need a motion? Do we 23 need a notion to approve engagement of Pressler, Thompson 24 Company for the audit? I move it. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 9-11-06 135 1 JUDGE TINLEY: That's for the fiscal year ending 2 September 30 this year? 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes, sir. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 5 MS. THOMPSON: And do we need to include having the 6 County Judge sign? 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion. Any questions or 9 discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify 10 by raising your right hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We'll move 15 to Item 20; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 16 amend Court Order 29831 to allow the Blue Knights to use Flat 17 Rock Lake Park the weekend of October 28, '06, that being 27, 18 28, and 29 October, instead of the weekend of October 21, '06. 19 This is -- I'm sure most of you recall, we approved their use 20 of the Flat Rock Lake Park for the October 21 weekend. They 21 came back and asked us to change that. We may have us a 22 little snafu here. It seems that Kerr County Fair is going on 23 that particular weekend, the following weekend, the 24 October 27, 28, and 29 weekend. Alyce tells me that it's 25 doable by requiring the parking of trailers to be over on the 9-11-06 136 1 Swap Shop park side, putting their trailers down in there as 2 opposed to where they've put them in previous years down in 3 Flat Rock Lake. That'll make Flat Rock open for the Kerr 4 County Fair. You have not yet talked to McCutcheon -- Rob 5 McCutcheon about that? 6 MS. DAVIDSON: No, I have not. But I can, I mean, 7 in a heartbeat. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 9 MS. DAVIDSON: It just depends if he wants to 10 compete with that, since there's a chili cook-off going on 11 during the fair, and then their chili cook-off. We'll talk. 12 I'll talk to him. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 14 MS. DAVIDSON: And get back with you. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't see this as something that we 16 must make a decision on today. We can bring that back after 17 she has an opportunity to discuss the logistical situation 18 with McCutcheon. Anybody else have any different thoughts? 19 Okay. Okay, that brings us to our departmental reports. I.T. 20 MR. TROLINGER: Well, good afternoon. I've got a 21 relatively large report I handed out this morning just before 22 court. Should be on your desk in front of you. I want to hit 23 the highlights real quickly. The County Clerk's evaluating 24 her land records and electronic imaging of all the land 25 records versus -- right now they're on racks. That'll be a 9-11-06 137 1 large project, probably $200,000 by the time it's done. She's 2 budgeted for the money available in the Records Management 3 fund to -- to cover the cost of that. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- this is for plats, 5 correct? 6 MR. TROLINGER: Yes. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Plat files? 8 MR. TROLINGER: Plat files and actual deed records 9 that are on racks right now. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- more from the plat side, 11 if they're imaged, how do people access them easily with the 12 imaging? 13 MR. TROLINGER: The primary method's going to be to 14 print out a copy for a user that wants a plat. But to examine 15 a plat, I think she's still going to -- I don't know if she's 16 going to retain that paper or not. I don't know. But the 17 plan right now is the scanning capability, the printing 18 capability, and the workstation will be able to view the plat. 19 But, you know, depending on how many users she has doing that, 20 we may only have one workstation for -- that has a large 21 enough screen, basically. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That was my concern. I mean, 23 obviously, you have much less equipment, because the screen is 24 so much larger. To be able to see it, it's got to be the size 25 of a plat, basically. 9-11-06 138 1 MR. TROLINGER: Well, an image is an image. If it's 2 the size of a plat versus the size of this, then you have to 3 scroll around. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, but you can't -- 5 MR. TROLINGER: On-screen. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My experience is that I can't 7 figure out what a plat looks like from scrolling around to 10 8 different screens. 9 MR. TROLINGER: That's a good point. We'll have to 10 look at that as we get into the project. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Got to be -- you know, they have 12 to be usable. And, I don't know how often or even -- you 13 know, the public looks at those plat files. I have no idea. 14 But I just thought when we look at them here, when they're on 15 three sheets, as we require under our rules, that makes it 16 very cumbersome to figure -- to look at them, but much less 17 having them, you know, off an image in a computer that you're 18 just going to be able to look at snapshots of. 19 MR. TROLINGER: Okay, we'll make sure to concentrate 20 on that as we get into the project. I -- I don't see this 21 happening before the end of the year. We're at the evaluation 22 stage on selecting vendors to do the scanning and indexing 23 work, et cetera. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: You said total cost of approximately 25 200,000? 9-11-06 139 1 MR. TROLINGER: That's my rough estimate, including 2 the -- the everything included. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I believe she's tentatively 4 indicating this will have to come up as one of the tail-end 5 budget items that I'm building a file on, 111,000, mas or 6 menos, out of the Records Management fund, that specialized 7 dedicated fund, for this equipment and supplies, I guess. I'm 8 not sure what all -- 9 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. Last year, there wasn't 10 anywhere near enough to get started on this project, and now 11 that the fund is built up to the point where we can get a 12 start on the project, we're ready to go. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: $200,000 worth? 14 MR. TROLINGER: No, sir. The initial cost is about 15 $100,000, and then once we get that initial cost and the 16 initial infrastructure in place, such as the large scanner and 17 printer, then the records can then be scanned -- imaged and 18 brought into electronic format. And I've got a quote from one 19 company that shows that that's about $100,000 worth of work 20 also, depending on how we do it, in-house or send it outside 21 to a wholesale -- have it all scanned at once. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But that 100,000 wasn't 23 included in the County Clerk's budget, was it? 24 MR. TROLINGER: It'll be broken out over probably 25 several years to fully scan. 9-11-06 140 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is the -- you mentioned the deed 2 records that are on racks. Do you know what portion of this 3 project is the deed records versus the plats? 4 MR. TROLINGER: The plats is -- the plats are, for 5 the hardware, $25,000. And scanning, if we do it in-house, 6 there's no additional -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess I'm trying to figure out 8 the -- I was -- I'm sorry, I missed the meeting when this was 9 discussed, but what's the drive to do this? I mean, is it 10 space, because of the cabinets that are required for the 11 plats? Is it trying to become more efficient, or -- I mean, I 12 see -- I don't -- I see scanning a lot of things is real 13 helpful, 'cause you save space. But the platting side of it, 14 I just don't -- seems like a larger expenditure for something 15 that -- if you're going to have to everyone that wants to look 16 at them printing a copy, I don't see how we're gaining a whole 17 lot. Truby? 18 MS. HARDIN: In the Subdivision Rules, there's -- 19 there was a request for a copy; I think it's a DWG file for 20 every plat that's been done, so the surveyors have those files 21 for every plat that's been done for the last 30, 40 years. 22 MR. TROLINGER: Oh, great. So they've got a CAD -- 23 AutoCAD file available now. 24 MS. HARDIN: One of them, yeah. There was a place 25 in San Antonio where you could get any of them that were done 9-11-06 141 1 in Kerr County. I've never gone to the site, but -- never had 2 a need for it, but I don't know why we would need to scan them 3 if the files are available. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. That's good. 5 MR. TROLINGER: Well, the difference between the 6 original document and the document that's on the -- on the 7 surveyor's computer is different. The County Clerk's got the 8 original with a stamp and approval. I think that's the 9 primary difference on these records -- 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the -- 11 MR. TROLINGER: -- that Truby's talking about. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And if that is the difference, I 13 guess I've often wondered what the purpose of the DWG file 14 requirement in our Subdivision Rules was. And it sounds like 15 it's not being used by anyone in the county, certainly. 16 MR. TROLINGER: It's -- AutoCAD is the name of the 17 software file, and it's a very special software program for -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. Well, I understand that, 19 but I thought it was being used by somebody. That's why it 20 was in there for so long. Okay. 21 MR. TROLINGER: Is it the architects that use that 22 file to trade data? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Architectural engineer. 24 MS. HARDIN: Surveyors. 25 MR. TROLINGER: Should be the surveyors exchanging 9-11-06 142 1 that data in that format. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We probably need to revisit this 3 at some point. 4 MR. TROLINGER: In any case, the -- the remaining 5 records will be scanned, and we're also looking at electronic 6 filing by the title companies, versus having to come into the 7 office in person and file. We went and looked at Bexar 8 County's operation, and they basically went from a very large 9 room with very many computers and public access to having a 10 mostly empty room with computers in it for their land records 11 lookup, and filing purposes. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: And it's more efficient for the court 13 personnel as well, isn't it? 14 MR. TROLINGER: I think it's the same amount of work 15 for the court, except they can process it in batch form. 16 Instead of having it come in -- trickle in during the day, 17 they can process it electronically all at one time. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Could multiple plat users 19 use this -- say, if you had two, three people in there at the 20 same time researching plats, can they all be serviced at the 21 same time? Or do they have to wait in line to get in front of 22 a screen? 23 MR. TROLINGER: It would be -- right now, we've got 24 three workstations; it would be three at a time. If it's made 25 available to the public -- like, for instance, the way Bexar 9-11-06 143 1 County has it, the title companies can actually log in and 2 view the -- view the records without coming to the courthouse. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Truby, not to get off this, but 4 I have a question. Most of what we do are revision of plats. 5 How do the surveyors get that as a platted version? Do they 6 come over -- 7 MS. HARDIN: Most of them have it in their offices 8 on file, DWG files. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, okay. 10 MR. TROLINGER: Probably the second item that I 11 wanted to touch on was that KPUB did routine maintenance of 12 the courthouse transformer this past week. They found damaged 13 power cable and repaired it at the same time. They really -- 14 the KPUB crew really went the extra -- to the extra effort to 15 dig into this and find the problem, and then get it repaired. 16 I don't think we all saw that, because it was a 7 a.m. -- or a 17 7 p.m. to 10 p.m. event for them. I helped out Collections 18 with financial reporting, and I've got a separate written 19 report on that, if we need to talk about that after 20 Collections reports to you. It goes in-depth into financial 21 reporting, and it's one of the key pieces of Odyssey. I don't 22 know how much time you'd like to spend on something like that 23 in court, but it does pertain to the Court because they are 24 financial reports that you receive. And I'll just -- I'll 25 leave it at that. I'll let the written report say the rest. 9-11-06 144 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I've got a couple items. 2 Talk about, please, electronic time reporting with the S.O. 3 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. I sat down with the 4 Sheriff's Office, with the Sheriff's secretary, training 5 officer, and the Sheriff, and we reviewed the electronic time 6 reporting and spent over an hour, probably, reviewing it. And 7 their determination is that it will not work for them. I 8 don't know if those are the correct -- the exact words. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Is the Sheriff just being 10 stubborn on this? 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Me, stubborn? 12 MR. TROLINGER: No, sir. They took a hard look at 13 the -- 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Still got a quill pen and 15 an inkwell there doing pay records? 16 MR. TROLINGER: They took a hard look at it, but it 17 is -- 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm not stubborn. 19 MR. TROLINGER: It would be a significant change 20 from the way they're doing things now, which is half 21 electronic and half paper. But it -- in some cases, it fits 22 the way that they're doing this. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The way -- if I can speak on 24 that subject, you'll understand why. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I was hoping you would. 9-11-06 145 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. Real quick, what -- 2 what -- the problem we have with the way the electronic 3 reporting reports is, it's going to report exactly what hours 4 a person works, which is true, and exactly what hours they 5 take off. Okay. And then you get into a mixture of the 160 6 hours to 171 hours, which is different, all right, for law 7 enforcement, and at the end of it, the bottom line on what you 8 report is there are times, such as holidays, if an officer 9 works on a holiday, we do not pay him those extra hours, okay? 10 It goes into a holiday bank that he can take off. Otherwise, 11 all they add up is -- all they build up is vacation. That way 12 I don't pay out the amount of overtime. If we go to this 13 system, everything that they do, instead of us having the 14 flexibility of trying to give it off in the same 28-day 15 period -- pay period, it's going to pay them for it, and that 16 will cost this county a whole lot more in actual dollars, 17 'cause I lose the flexibility of being able to change things 18 around to give people time off so they get their time without 19 having to pay them for every minute that they -- 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm thinking, though, 21 Sheriff, that the program can be revised to accommodate the 22 peculiarities -- 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: My understanding is the program 24 can't be. That's why I said no. If it can be, I'd be more 25 than happy to look at it, 'cause it could be a lot easier. 9-11-06 146 1 You know, I really thought at the beginning when we talked it 2 would be harder on who our approved users are and submitting 3 it, 'cause it goes from the individual officer to a 4 supervisor, and then to the chief, and then to our personnel 5 clerk on how all this stuff gets -- we've got a lot of checks 6 and balances. And I thought that was going to cause us a 7 problem, but in dealing with John on it, that's not the 8 problem. It's the problem that it's going to pay them for 9 every minute that they're out there, and that's not the way we 10 can do business without my payroll and my overtime being ten 11 times what it is now. And that's why I say no. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Do we -- anywhere in the 13 county, are we still using time clocks? 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I have one that we haven't used 15 in -- 16 MS. DAVIDSON: Maintenance. We do in Maintenance. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Why? 18 MS. DAVIDSON: Why? Just to keep an eye on -- track 19 on things. When -- when you have, I think, computers, 20 sometimes it gets a glitch, and this is just exactly what he 21 did. And -- 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You've probably got an 23 antique there. 24 MS. DAVIDSON: Probably do. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Most businesses probably 9-11-06 147 1 haven't seen one of those in 40, 50 years. 2 MS. DAVIDSON: We use it every day. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't have a problem -- it's 4 a good system and it's a good way of keeping track of most of 5 it. I'm just concerned about how we're having to pay overtime 6 by going to it, 'cause it's either that or we have to falsify 7 what we submit by saying they took this off and not this. And 8 that's not a true deal of what the officer actually wants to 9 sign off on, and then I've got a problem. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There's a two- or three-day 11 training session that's scheduled in October with the software 12 people; correct, Mr. Trolinger? On payroll. Right, 13 Mr. Auditor? 14 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes, that's right. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll find somebody with the 16 right answer here. Is there any reason why this wouldn't be 17 discussed with those folks, or are they the wrong people? 18 MR. TROLINGER: That's the right time and the right 19 people. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And it should be. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Basically, what the Sheriff's saying 22 is if a program can be modified or devised that will do 23 electronic time reporting which incorporates the nuances that 24 you need to have -- 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Then I have no problem; I'm all 9-11-06 148 1 for it. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's nail it. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thanks. Mr. Trolinger, 4 could you talk about the last item on your report? 5 MR. TROLINGER: There's a district court case -- I 6 was asked by the Sheriff's Office investigations to examine a 7 hard drive, and I made a brief review, recommended it be moved 8 on to Austin, and I've been subpoenaed in the actual case 9 that's gone to trial. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That wasn't a hard drive of 11 a Kerr County-owned computer? 12 MR. TROLINGER: No, sir. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. That's all. That's 14 all I've got. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How is the Odyssey? 16 MR. TROLINGER: I've got some issues with some of 17 the departments that need to be corrected. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: With the program, or with the 19 departments? 20 MR. TROLINGER: With the people. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I got issues with Odyssey, 22 but -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We need to have a workshop on 24 Odyssey sometime this fall so we can get -- hear both sides. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We had one three weeks ago. 9-11-06 149 1 MR. TROLINGER: At the Sheriff's Office, we had a 2 pretty in-depth discussion -- two weeks ago? Three weeks ago? 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: About three weeks ago, when I 4 demanded they come down or I was going up there. 5 MR. TROLINGER: Okay. And then, also, I had a 6 one-hour session with each of the patrol -- actually, all law 7 enforcement at the Sheriff's Office to get feedback and to 8 give training on the new features that were released a 9 couple-three weeks ago. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is your perception that most 11 departments are happy with Odyssey? 12 MR. TROLINGER: Oh, no, they're going to complain. 13 It's just human nature. They use it as an excuse, mostly. 14 It's very difficult to deal with some days. Some days I'm on 15 my last nerve. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Resistance to change? 17 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. And, you know, just like 18 Brad, he can tell you I've gotten down to my last nerve on 19 this. And it's -- it's about procedures and how things are 20 done. But the software is -- especially on the court side, I 21 think is just the greatest thing since sliced bread. But 22 depending on which user you go to and see how they're using 23 the software, and the process on how they've been told to use 24 the software, that's all the difference. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Training issues? 9-11-06 150 1 MR. TROLINGER: Sir? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Training issues again? 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Attitude. 4 MR. TROLINGER: I'm down to personnel and people and 5 how things are done, procedure. And there's a big one that -- 6 that Collections has with their -- with their report to the 7 Commissioners. That will come up today. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. 10 MR. TROLINGER: You're welcome. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Road and Bridge? 12 MS. HARDIN: I think all of you have a report before 13 you. And in July and August, we did over 71,000 gallons of 14 oil on the roads that we have listed there. We ran out of 15 money before we got all the roads paved. Those that were not 16 completed will be done as soon as you give us some more money. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Glad to see you got Precinct 3 18 taken care of. 19 MS. HARDIN: We got Precinct 3. Unfortunately, most 20 of them were in 1 and a few in 2, but the next list of things 21 were all done in 1, so he should be happy. Town Creek project 22 was completed on August 31st, and it took us -- took the 23 contractor only 57 days. The realignment of Upper Turtle 24 Creek is complete, and we're still waiting for the paperwork 25 on that one. They finished placing concrete curbs and black 9-11-06 151 1 base to take out the large dip on Ball Drive that we've been 2 hoping for for several years, and that's completed except for 3 the sealcoat that will go on it. We placed a lot of signs and 4 "stop ahead" signs, speed signs, because once the dip is out, 5 the speed's going to go up tremendously. Mr. Matter's crew 6 has been working on Upper Turtle Creek clearing the brush, 7 cutting back the hill and installing new fences for a better 8 line of sight on Keith Boulevard, which is something that's 9 been in the works for several years. 10 On subdivision plats, we only -- there were nine new 11 ones since the last report, and most of those are plats that 12 were done under the alternate plat process. We're -- and then 13 on the floodplain, we only had -- out of all of this list, 14 only two of those are new. All the others are still pending 15 completion, 'cause they have six months to finish them. We 16 got a couple of reports from U.G.R.A., people doing things on 17 their property. One of them was Mr. Stevens, who had his 18 permit from last -- last month. He has six months to comply, 19 and they just wanted to know if he was in compliance. And the 20 other one was a piece of property that was near the city 21 limits, but not in the floodplain, and they were moving dirt 22 around, but we have no jurisdiction over that. 23 We have one employee who is out on worker's comp 24 because he hurt his back while he was shoveling asphalt on 25 Ball Drive. Our budget is real close, but we're working to 9-11-06 152 1 get everything finished that we can within the budget. And I 2 have one other thing that was not on the list. I designed a 3 web site for Road and Bridge to link to the county site. I've 4 linked it to the Subdivision Rules, Manufactured Home rules, 5 the floodplain permit. Would y'all like to see a copy of it 6 before I send it to Mr. Trolinger to put on, to see if there's 7 anything else that y'all would like to have on there? 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So you'll be able to access 9 the Subdivision Rules on the internet? 10 MS. HARDIN: Yes, sir. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's good. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But you can't change them 13 around. Locked version. 14 MS. HARDIN: They're done on the -- they'll be in 15 Adobe format, which is what I sent earlier, just as those that 16 are -- I think Kathy -- y'all got a copy? Y'all got a copy 17 Friday? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 19 MS. HARDIN: Of the Subdivision Rules. It will be 20 exactly what's printed in that book, except I don't know how 21 to put it on the site. Would y'all like to see a copy of it 22 before we do it to see if there's anything else that you'd 23 like to add? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not me. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 9-11-06 153 1 MS. HARDIN: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We'll look at it. Then we'll 3 leave it to Trolinger to make the changes, or you. We'll look 4 at it. It's easier to look at it -- it's a lot easier to look 5 at it on the interest, to me, and see then if you have 6 comments about it. 7 MS. HARDIN: Okay, that's fine. I just thought 8 maybe there might be something else you wanted to add. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Now, that's 20th century 10 work, 21st century work. That's good work. Unlike the old 11 way of keeping time records, you're progressing. 12 MS. HARDIN: We don't have a time clock either. Are 13 we going to be expected to do some kind of electronic 14 timekeeping? That's the first I'd heard about it. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. The answer is yes. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You are. 17 MS. HARDIN: Okay. 18 MR. TROLINGER: I talked to Mr. Odom about it, 19 probably just in passing, to ask his thoughts on it. 20 MS. HARDIN: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's it. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. 23 MS. HARDIN: Okay, thank you. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Facilities and Maintenance? 25 MS. DAVIDSON: I guess we're talking time clocks 9-11-06 154 1 now? I'm next, huh? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Or newer generation time clocks, 3 maybe. 4 MS. DAVIDSON: I like the older clock, though. July 5 and August were rough months for us, being with Glenn's 6 sickness and death, and then August trying to recover from 7 that. So, things were like, I guess, a fog for the last two 8 months. So, with the Youth Exhibit Center, things have been 9 going smoothly with the work there. Exhibit Hall has been 10 staying steady. In August, there were, as you see on there, 11 only two dates that took in revenue, and the others were 12 non-revenue. That's -- that's a lot that didn't -- money 13 didn't go into. So, there's a lot of things that I'd like to 14 work out on this, on the reservation end of it. If anybody 15 has any input and would like to help me, I'm -- I'd be willing 16 to learn, big-time, about that. So, other than that, that is 17 it. There hasn't been much, other than last Thursday and the 18 electricity being turned off. Maria was here; she took care 19 of that, so -- she worked with Trolinger, and hopefully that 20 will take care of some of the power surges that I see down in 21 your department. 22 MR. EMERSON: Okay. 23 MS. DAVIDSON: And I think Brad was talking also 24 about power surges in his office. So, work from there and see 25 what happens. We'll keep a close eye on that. So, that's it. 9-11-06 155 1 Not much going on. Any questions? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Utilities are a big issue at 3 the Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center. 4 MS. DAVIDSON: Yes, sir. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are we taking all the steps 6 that we could be taking to curb our electric use when the 7 building is not being rented? 8 MS. DAVIDSON: I hope so. I will keep up on that 9 for sure. It was stressed before Glenn passed away that that 10 was to be done, lights turned off in the indoor arena. If you 11 didn't need them on, you didn't use them; don't drive the 12 Bobcat if you didn't need to, just 'cause you're bored, things 13 like that. A/C turned down -- I mean turned up to accommodate 14 not being cold in there. There are things that we have been 15 trying to keep an eye on. I think it needs to be watched 16 closely, closer than it has been. I feel that somebody should 17 be out there supervising it more than it is right now. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Seems like to me that Glenn 19 had replaced and put in more efficient light bulbs of some 20 sort at one time in the last couple of years. 21 MS. DAVIDSON: They're all fluorescent. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know; I don't 23 remember. 24 MS. DAVIDSON: They're the same ones that Mindy 25 orders all the time for us that we use now. I'm not sure. We 9-11-06 156 1 use the same ones here in the courthouse that we do out there 2 as well. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the new electronic -- 4 so-called electronic flourescents that use that ballast 5 that -- 6 MS. DAVIDSON: Correct. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 8 MS. DAVIDSON: The same ones that we're using here 9 now, so they're used out there as well. So, I have other 10 issues, but I can talk later about them. I'd rather not bring 11 them up now. So, other than that, that's it. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait a minute. What do you 13 mean, you can talk later? 14 MS. DAVIDSON: I'll talk later. This is report 15 time. Other issues I'd like to bring up later. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, I see. 17 MS. DAVIDSON: Okay? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions? Thank you, 19 ma'am. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Commissioner, help me with 22 my memory. Were we a test case for Odyssey? Are we the -- 23 one of the first ones to install it? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The answer is yes. 25 MR. TROLINGER: For the full integration for law 9-11-06 157 1 enforcement and jail, we were the first, and we received a 2 substantial discount. The cost to Odyssey is twice for the 3 courts what it was last year. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, the 254 counties 5 having to keep -- having to pay jailers and deputies under the 6 same laws that we do, somebody's going to come up with a 7 solution to this -- this issue of the program not working for 8 them. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And Odyssey -- on the payroll, 10 Odyssey may be able to. It's just trying to keep the times 11 right now, okay? Without that, maybe the meeting in October 12 will help it. But when Trolinger and all of us looked at it, 13 without what I consider changing what is reality on times, we 14 can't get around it, and hopefully that can be worked out 15 right. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The only other county I know 17 of is Abilene. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That has Odyssey? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Hays County is going to do it. 21 Guadalupe County is coming up in the next few weeks to look at 22 it. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Gillespie County started last year in 24 some respects. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Partially. 9-11-06 158 1 MR. TROLINGER: Dallas County uses courts. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Dallas County were the first 3 ones using everything. There are what I consider major 4 problems in it right now that we're discovering in law 5 enforcement or jail that -- 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: My only point is the fact 7 that it won't -- it's not a useful tool to you now. Doesn't 8 mean that it has to be that way forever. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's right. 10 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, just a minute. Odyssey has 11 not handled payroll. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What? 13 MR. TOMLINSON: Odyssey program is not -- does not 14 handle the payroll. That's a totally separate -- 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 16 MR. TOMLINSON: -- piece of software. Odyssey has 17 nothing to do with payroll. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, how will we address 19 that in October, then, if it's a different package? 20 MR. TOMLINSON: Because the people that are coming 21 are the people that designed our software for payroll. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that Incode? 24 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 9-11-06 159 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Same issues, just different 2 company. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Same problem, different players. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: All under the same roof; 5 different room, probably. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Collections? 8 MR. ALFORD: Any questions? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Looks like you're staying where 10 you are. 11 MR. ALFORD: So far. The report, as y'all know, we 12 haven't been very accurate, as far as what we deem to be 13 accurate, since we left the old system. I've been in touch 14 with Software numerous times. I have an e-mail along with the 15 I.T. department here, something we're trying to do. We're 16 trying to go back -- I like the old system on how much was 17 assessed, how much we collected, so I can come in here and 18 tell you basically what we're making. That report at this 19 particular time, due to issues that it does not exist and will 20 not exist for some time, it's something we're working on. 21 It's a big picture that involves all the clerks' offices, the 22 courts, all kinds of stuff. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Do we have a target date? 24 MR. ALFORD: No, sir. The last e-mail I got 25 basically says -- this particular person I've been talking to 9-11-06 160 1 says, "I requested a change to the standard report, but at 2 this time, until it's complete, I cannot fulfill your 3 request." So, in other words, it has been submitted as an 4 issue, but we have no end date on it. It's something that 5 John and I have talked about extensively over multiple 6 meetings. I mean, John ran some figures for me the other day. 7 It shows that last year, '04-'05, we collected $606,000. Have 8 an outstanding balance, including credit, of $92,000. Well, 9 that all looks real good, but I'm not real sure how accurate 10 it is, 'cause I got to picking it apart and I found where 11 we're $32,000 off just because probation fees are still in our 12 system. So, you know, I just -- I'm not real comfortable 13 submitting y'all a report and not knowing how accurate the 14 figures are. I can't tell you plus or minus 10 percent or 15 $100,000; I just -- that's something I can't do right now. 16 So, that is something that we're working on to try to get 17 fixed up. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is the amount collected 19 accurate? 20 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. 21 MR. ALFORD: Yeah, probably. But I -- my main 22 concern right now is -- is outstanding. I don't think -- I 23 mean, this one shows that for '04-'05, we have $92,000 24 outstanding, and I've already eliminated $32,000 of that. So, 25 you know, that's telling me that we're basically, you know, 9-11-06 161 1 $50,000, $60,000 outstanding for '04-'05, which to me would 2 probably make it the number one collection agency in the state 3 of Texas. And I just have a problem with that till I know -- 4 meantime, I can look y'all in the face and tell you I've 5 collected 91 percent, but I'd sure like to know that before I 6 said that for sure. And, so, that's kind of -- you know, I 7 don't know how accurate they are, but I think that we can 8 assume so far that we've collected $606,000 for '04-'05 year. 9 Other projects I have going on, I'm currently trying 10 to work with Alyce to build the Youth Facility/Maintenance a 11 web site and get a lot of her policies, procedures, forms 12 where people can just download them, print them out, e-mail 13 them back, whatever she wants to do. We met a couple of weeks 14 ago. I kind of gave her some guidelines, and she went back to 15 her office to work on forms and statements like that. Rest of 16 my computer work has been, you know, pretty slow. I've helped 17 do -- John's scared to death that everybody will -- last year, 18 with this power shut-down, and I'd run around the courthouse 19 showing everybody how to do backups of all their files and 20 stuff like that. But other than that, it's been pretty -- 21 pretty quiet. Mouse doesn't work, stuff like that. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You haven't ran around 23 anywhere in years. 24 MR. ALFORD: Okay, I have waddled extremely fast for 25 my age, thank you very much. 9-11-06 162 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. The -- do you want to 2 talk about cutting the door and painting big yellow feet on 3 the floor? 4 MR. ALFORD: I'm not -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I like the yellow feet. 6 MR. ALFORD: All I learned this morning was I'm not 7 going to have an office in a bathroom. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How much would it cost to put 9 a door in your office wall? 10 MR. ALFORD: Well, I'm not very sure. I know where 11 there's possibly $400. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We better get somebody else 13 if he can't up come with numbers like that. 14 MR. ALFORD: I said I know where there's $400 of 15 free money. Does that count? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: $400 of free money? 17 MR. ALFORD: That you've already budgeted, but 18 haven't spent, so I guess it's free. No, Glenn had put some 19 money in Jannett's budget to do some type of -- y'all may know 20 more about it than I do -- cabinets or -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Counters. 22 MR. ALFORD: Right. And I'm not very sure that's 23 going to be getting done anytime soon. So, Jannett had 24 suggested maybe we could look at that $400. I've talked to 25 one individual about just putting a hollow-core door, you 9-11-06 163 1 know, a lockable door. It doesn't have to be a fire door or 2 real secure where we're just -- that way, in the afternoons we 3 can close the door and we're done with it. So, I -- I don't 4 know how talented -- 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Under fire marshal regulations, 6 if it goes out to a hallway, it has to -- 7 MR. ALFORD: This is internal. This is internal. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. 9 MR. ALFORD: Now, I'm not really sure of our 10 Maintenance Department's skills. They may be able to take a 11 saw and cut a hole in it; $200, $300, we're done. I don't 12 know. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why don't you find out about 14 that? 15 MR. ALFORD: Okay. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else, gentlemen? 17 MR. TROLINGER: Brad, do you want me to talk about 18 the financial report? 19 MR. ALFORD: No, 'cause I'm still in disagreement 20 with you. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Why don't -- why don't you get 22 yourself comfortable with the accuracy of what you're doing 23 and come back here next go-around and be in a position to 24 comfortably tell us you got the highest collection rate of any 25 Collections department in the state? 9-11-06 164 1 MR. ALFORD: Did you hear that? 2 MR. TROLINGER: Well, I've got a complete report on 3 exactly what Brad's addressing, and I -- I can tell you what 4 the problems are right now. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Would I understand it? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can you fix the problem? 7 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir, it's in English. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: That doesn't mean I can understand it 9 if it's -- if it's high-tech, John. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is it fixable? 11 MR. TROLINGER: Yes. It requires changes in court 12 procedures. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, boy. 14 MR. ALFORD: Yeah. That's why I don't want to talk 15 about it right now. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That means the judges are going to 17 have to change what they're doing? 18 MR. TROLINGER: No, sir, but I think it needs to be 19 addressed with you all, 'cause financial reports that you 20 receive, both Collections and -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's talk about that. 22 MR. TROLINGER: The County Court and the District 23 Court, actually. 24 MR. ALFORD: The problem is right now that -- that 25 we're having a lot of the old -- in the old files, whenever 9-11-06 165 1 probation was integrated with us, they would put in probation 2 fees into our system. Well, that's something that y'all 3 aren't concerned about; that's probation fees. But they're in 4 our system, so when we run this report, that's exactly what I 5 have on this report that John made for me to show how the 6 outstanding balance of $92,000. Well, without wasting a lot 7 of time, I just went down, started doublechecking some of 8 these cases, and lo and behold, $32,000 of it was probation 9 fees, Crimestoppers fees, MAD fee. I mean, just go on and on 10 and on. That was assessed by Probation, so what I've been 11 doing is basically omit -- trying to omit those fees. 12 Another problem we're having is a lot of these 13 reports will show -- well, the Clerk's office are assessing 14 court costs before the case has ever gone to trial, before the 15 Judge has ever slammed the hammer and says that you owe this 16 kind of money. What the -- I'm assuming what they're doing is 17 trying to stay ahead of the curve. The clerks, whenever the 18 County Attorney's office writes up a file, say for DWI, 19 they'll go in and type in the court cost should be $351, so 20 that the day of court, whenever the Judge slams the hammer 21 down, $500 fine, all they have to do is add the fine. Kind of 22 helping them out. Well, that's causing great concerns with 23 these reports, because, you know, we may have $100,000 worth 24 of costs in the computer system that's never been adjudicated. 25 So, for that reason -- 9-11-06 166 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That sounds like to me that 2 needs to stop. 3 MR. ALFORD: It -- I mean, that -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's not real. That they're 5 -- I mean, that they're doing it is real, but it's not a real 6 number. 7 MR. ALFORD: Well, it's -- and it's not a real 8 number. The only thing I think it's probably doing is trying 9 to help them save time, 'cause whenever they walk into the 10 courtroom, instead of having to enter two fees, they're only 11 having to add -- enter one. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand clearly, but I 13 don't know that anybody at this table is interested in saving 14 time. 15 MR. ALFORD: Well -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: At this point, we want 17 accurate numbers. 18 MR. ALFORD: I understand. I'm just telling you 19 where the Collections Department's coming from. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And what if that was stopped? 21 What would happen? 22 MR. ALFORD: I think that, eventually, we would 23 start having a more accurate report. I mean, I can't tell you 24 how long it's going to take to get this cleared up. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: How's that going to affect you? 9-11-06 167 1 MR. EMERSON: That's a problem if we don't have 2 court costs before we're in court, because we sit down with a 3 defendant across the table, we negotiate a plea bargain, and 4 then we immediately start filling out our paperwork. We have 5 to have court costs to put in the paperwork to get the 6 judgments. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But you fax everything I do 8 when we get the judgment. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: What's the timeline lag between it 10 being -- probation costs assessed and actual costs assessed? 11 What's the timeline lag there? 12 MR. EMERSON: I don't know when they're putting the 13 probation in the system. 14 MR. TROLINGER: Months. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Months. 16 MR. ALFORD: Could be years. You know -- well, say 17 the County Attorney's office files a case for assault, issues 18 a warrant. Johnny absconds; he moves to New Mexico. It may 19 be four or five years before he's ever arrested. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: At the point that case is filed, is 21 there a cost that accrues in your system? 22 MR. ALFORD: Yes, sir. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: That's not when they're getting down 24 to the plea and it's, you know, within a day or two, or maybe 25 even a week or two of going to court, when they need to have 9-11-06 168 1 that figure? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, that makes a little 3 more sense. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: That's more realistic. But don't 5 accrue a cost that -- that hasn't been added to be paid just 6 because the case is filed. 7 MR. ALFORD: And I'm kind of talking out -- I don't 8 want to put Cheryl on the spot, 'cause I don't know how much 9 she knows; I'm not real sure. I'm assuming that whenever the 10 case is brought up is when they're putting in the court costs. 11 I really don't know that for sure, but I'm assuming they're 12 trying to do as much as they can all at once. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Well, the other thing you and 14 I have talked about is defendants -- for example, say he's 15 adjudicated or deferred adjudication, and he's out on 16 probation for a year, and he -- you've got probation fees of, 17 say, $25 or $40 a month, whatever it is, and you immediately 18 plug in the entire 12 months at that figure, and then 19 subsequently his probation is revoked. You've told me that 20 the way your system is set up, you continue to show -- let's 21 say he's revoked at the end of six months -- the remaining 22 balance, six months at $40 a month, $240 as a receivable. 23 MR. ALFORD: Forever. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, that's not earned. It needs to 25 be dropped off. 9-11-06 169 1 MR. ALFORD: Well, and that's what threw John and I. 2 We have been trying to do that since April the 5th. I cannot 3 tell you how many probation fees I have omitted from our 4 system. I don't know if it's been thousands or not, but seems 5 like every day, if I get five minutes, I start deleting 6 probation fees. 7 MR. TROLINGER: Well, the two things I found, and 8 you've touched on both of them, are that, yes, number one, 9 court costs are being imposed when a case is being filed. And 10 although it looks great to have Odyssey as a calculator, the 11 district courts use a chart to look up these numbers, and it's 12 a very simple process. Odyssey can act as a calculator 13 without filing -- without including the financial charges when 14 the case is filed, and it's a couple of steps to show the 15 clerks how to do that. But, really, what -- really, the 16 reason I wrote this report, and I want to bring it to your 17 attention, is that this affects all Odyssey financial reports, 18 and it affects GASB, Government -- Governmental Accounting 19 Standards Board. And it affects GASB-34 that the Auditor 20 receives from the courts, which is a report in Odyssey, and 21 makes it basically useless, from what I'm seeing. And it 22 affects several other financial reports; some of them are 23 brought directly to Commissioners Court and filed with the 24 County Clerk. 25 The Collections department brought this up, and I 9-11-06 170 1 delved into it because Brad just got on my last nerve, 2 insisting that this -- there was something wrong here. And 3 there is something wrong here. Number one problem is -- is 4 that the criminal cases, when they're filed, fees are being 5 assessed, the court costs, at that time. And these cases 6 right now, if you go and look in Odyssey, you will see 7 thousands, probably tens -- hundreds -- 8 MR. ALFORD: I don't know. A lot. 9 MR. TROLINGER: A lot of money there that has not 10 actually been assessed. There has not been a judgment on 11 these people. And the Code of Criminal Procedures says you 12 can't make those people liable until they've been -- until 13 there's a disposition on the case. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: So, what you're saying is when a case 15 is -- criminal case is filed, it automatically imposes 16 whatever the normal cost is for that type of case. It shows 17 up on an operating statement as having accrued, and on a 18 balance sheet it's going to show up as a receivable. 19 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. And Software Group asked 20 very point-blank -- they recommended against this. And I've 21 talked with Software. They have three or four counties that 22 continue this practice, with the old software and new both. 23 And it's -- it's always been a problem for them, is what 24 they're telling me. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Under the old system, Brad, it didn't 9-11-06 171 1 do this? 2 MR. TROLINGER: It did. 3 MR. ALFORD: Not the report, the particular report I 4 ran, because what I ran worked off of the supposed dates -- 5 MR. TROLINGER: And that's the key. Brad had a 6 report in Legacy that he wants to create in Odyssey, but I see 7 that report as violating the -- you know, a couple of -- a 8 couple of codes, possibly, by extracting certain things from 9 the financials and really not displaying the true numbers that 10 are in the system. In other words, Brad's old report would 11 extract certain fees that, you know, he needed to report on, 12 but the probation fees were still there. And just like you 13 brought up, the Probation Department, it looks like -- I'm not 14 going to use the wording I wrote in the report, but they 15 didn't manage those fees, and they remain on the cases, even 16 once the probationer has stopped -- you know, correct. And 17 those fees remain today on those cases, some of them ten years 18 old. 19 MR. ALFORD: Can I say something? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you have an issue? 21 MR. EMERSON: Do y'all want me to go get the Clerk? 22 MR. TROLINGER: I did discuss this with the County 23 and District Clerks, and presented them with this write-up 24 presented to you. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Rex, is there -- when y'all are 9-11-06 172 1 handling your cases in there, is there enough of a standard 2 schedule of costs in each particular kind of case that you can 3 look at where you can extract that off of a -- of a checklist, 4 mylar checklist or something, and just plug it in over there? 5 So that you're in a position to make plea bargains 6 intelligently, and let somebody know when they enter a plea 7 that day or the next week exactly what it's going to be, and 8 be right 95 percent of the time? 9 MR. EMERSON: My uneducated guess would be that it 10 should be easy enough to put together a cheat sheet. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 12 MR. EMERSON: For specific offenses. 'Cause I can 13 tell you right now, probably two-thirds of them are $289 or 14 $311, but I don't know why they vary on some cases. But the 15 only thing we do have to have is, we have to have an accurate 16 number before we can fill out the judgment sheet. Because by 17 the time we assess credit for jail time and so forth, we have 18 to have a number to work off of. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: You can calculate the credit yourself 20 and -- granted, it'll take you a little time and be a little 21 effort, but that -- that's the real particular variable in 22 each case, isn't it? Except for this class of case as being 23 289 and this class being 331? 24 MR. EMERSON: Correct. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 9-11-06 173 1 MR. EMERSON: We generate our judgments manually. 2 We can do them very quickly as long as we have the numbers, 3 but it would be -- I don't know what the solution is, but it 4 would be almost impossible to say we're going to have to stop 5 every single judgment to go to the clerk to get an accurate 6 court cost and then come back and fill out the judgment. That 7 would take a morning's court that normally takes two or three 8 hours and turn it into all day. 9 MR. TROLINGER: To look up the court costs? 10 MR. EMERSON: If they're not already calculated 11 somewhere. 12 MR. TROLINGER: Only the court costs are being 13 assessed when the case is filed, and they're typically $249, 14 or if there's a bond -- 15 MR. EMERSON: Isn't that what we're talking about? 16 MR. TROLINGER: Exactly that. 17 MR. EMERSON: So if you're not preassessing, how do 18 I get my court costs? 19 MR. TROLINGER: Isn't it the same on the majority of 20 cases? 21 MR. EMERSON: They jump all over the place. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There's a lot of different 23 things. 24 MR. TOMLINSON: Judge? I think -- I think you hit 25 on it a little bit earlier when you said that if -- if the 9-11-06 174 1 time span from the time the clerk initiated the fees in the 2 system and the date they actually went to court, if that time 3 span was fairly short, you know, there wouldn't be an issue. 4 Because I think that -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Vast majority of those cases, they're 6 going to come out that way. 7 MR. TOMLINSON: Right. So -- so all you're going to 8 have, if you waited until you knew they were going to be on 9 the docket -- the case was going to be on the docket, and then 10 put the fee in, then you would be relatively sure that those 11 cases were going to turn over the next -- the next court date. 12 So, if you ran a report at any given time, the most you would 13 have outstanding on those -- on those fees would only be the 14 amount for just those causes. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: For the next docket, yeah. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But you can't do that, because 17 your dockets normally -- especially district court, and some 18 county court, your dockets, you know, are five, six pages, 19 where you may have 60, even just the incarcerated inmates, and 20 you bring them all over and they go before the Judge. And out 21 of those 60 cases, 55 of them will be reset. You got to go 22 back in and remove it from those? Because your dockets 23 continue. 24 MR. TROLINGER: Judge, I -- 25 JUDGE TINLEY: We're looking at this down at County 9-11-06 175 1 Court at Law. Now, you're -- you couldn't use that upstairs, 2 because -- 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: A lot of our County Court at 4 Law ones end up being the same way. 5 MR. EMERSON: Well, County Court at Law, we may 6 plea -- on a morning docket, we may plea 75 percent of our 7 docket, but somebody's still going to have to go back in and 8 manually back out that other 25 percent, or you're still not 9 going to have an accurate report. 10 MR. TROLINGER: I've been through this to my last 11 nerve, basically. I've sat in the courtroom, I've sat behind 12 the clerks while they're entering cases. I've entered cases 13 this weekend, and the proper way to use Odyssey is to assess 14 the fees when the court case is disposed of, when a judgment 15 is issued. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I would think just this one 17 -- the GASB issue is enough to set off alarms. 18 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, I -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're doing something wrong 20 here. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: I look at the materiality of what's 22 involved. And if I'm -- if I'm dealing with a relatively few 23 number of cases, I consider the -- those fees that are out 24 there that haven't been adjudicated, if they're not material 25 in number, I'm not going to worry about it, because the 9-11-06 176 1 percentage of -- of those fees to the total amount of fees 2 that we're talking about is zero, almost. So -- and as far as 3 the probation fees that Brad's talking about, his -- his issue 4 with probation fees being on the court is that he doesn't have 5 any control over them. I just take them out. I mean, I get 6 the same thing, and -- and I have a little grid set up that I 7 go down the list of fees and I plug them in, and I know which 8 are county fees, which are state fees, and what are fines, and 9 that's all I use. So, it's -- it's -- the probation fee part 10 of this is not an issue to me. So -- 11 MR. TROLINGER: And I -- 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I just deal with it. 13 MR. TROLINGER: And Tommy's -- the Auditor's office 14 is going through a lot of work to figure out these numbers, I 15 think, and Odyssey has built in to provide these financial 16 reports. And that's the key. That's what we're talking about 17 here, the difference between having to do things manually and 18 having -- and using the tools available. 19 MR. EMERSON: Just one general comment. I think the 20 reports are extremely important to be accurate, but I would 21 request that somehow it be worked within the system. The 22 whole idea is to speed up the system, not slow it down. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 24 MR. EMERSON: And as it is now, whether it's 25 personnel or Odyssey or whatever, we'll finish our morning 9-11-06 177 1 docket and they're still doing paperwork an hour later because 2 of inputting the computer and working people through the 3 system. So, whatever we do, you know, we need to speed it up, 4 not slow it down. And I don't know what the solution to that 5 is. 6 MR. ALFORD: Can I say a couple things now? 7 MR. TROLINGER: I agree. 8 MR. ALFORD: This is my time, Trolinger. One thing 9 that I want to argue about, John was saying that -- whenever 10 he said my reports weren't accurate; I was withholding 11 something, keeping something out, I'm not real sure what he's 12 referring to, other than the fact in the old system, I was 13 able to tell it I only want the Kerr County Clerk's fees, and 14 that's what I gave y'all. We only -- I only wanted the money 15 that y'all were involved in. So, I don't know what you're 16 talking about, I was holding out other fees. 17 MR. TROLINGER: Well, the -- the actual -- the 18 actual total due on those court cases right now, if we go in 19 and look at them, there's a total due there of, say, $50. 20 MR. ALFORD: Mm-hmm. 21 MR. TROLINGER: Because there's still a probation 22 fee left. 23 MR. ALFORD: Mm-hmm. 24 MR. TROLINGER: Well, you were only running a report 25 that showed -- 9-11-06 178 1 MR. ALFORD: The Clerk's fees. 2 MR. TROLINGER: -- zero, basically, balance due. In 3 other words, that $50 was still there from probation, but you 4 we presenting a report that showed zero balance due, as far as 5 your report. 6 MR. ALFORD: So, I was perjuring my reports? 7 MR. TROLINGER: Not at all. What I'm saying is -- 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Time out. Time out. 9 MR. ALFORD: Yeah. 10 MR. TROLINGER: It's a perception issue in some 11 ways. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You're turning this into a 13 problem-solving session. 14 MR. ALFORD: I agree. That's what I -- 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: This doesn't solve the 16 problem. This is reporting time. What's the path forward? 17 MR. TROLINGER: This is my report. I've got two 18 recommended solutions. One was to stop imposing a court cost 19 on the criminal cases when they're filed. The second is that 20 the County Clerk should account for the community service, 21 probation fees on the past case -- on cases before April 7th, 22 2006, when we transitioned -- 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Who are the right people to 24 deal with those two potential solutions? To come to some 25 conclusion? 9-11-06 179 1 MR. TROLINGER: The County Clerk and the County 2 Attorney are the ones involved, I believe. The County 3 Attorney from the standpoint that he does County Court at Law, 4 and the -- you know, the court process. They need to make 5 sure this is going to make things better. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'd suggest you get the 7 right people together and come up with a solution, and then 8 probably tell Commissioners Court what that solution is. 9 MR. TROLINGER: These are the two recommended 10 solutions that I have. There may be others from other 11 departments. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think the County Attorney 13 has to weigh in on number one, particularly. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. He's got to do something 15 that's going to work with his moving of cases through courts. 16 And -- but I agree with Brad on that probation issue. If -- 17 we shouldn't be carrying those probation fees if they're -- 18 if, number one, they're no longer accrued or should be accrued 19 because the guy's been revoked. I mean, they're not owed. 20 You pay fees while you're on probation, not when you've been 21 revoked. 22 MR. ALFORD: That's my point. I guess that's why I 23 was turning in falsified documents for, because I was omitting 24 the Probation Department fees. No, I'm just joking with John. 25 That's fine. I'm just saying I don't know. I don't think 9-11-06 180 1 right now, today, I can give y'all a fair, accurate report, 2 period. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 4 MR. ALFORD: We're working on it. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, y'all -- y'all know what the -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Talk it out. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: -- wrinkles are. Have at it. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No blood on the floor. 9 MR. ALFORD: But if I cleaned it up? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, that appears to be it for the 11 -- I'll remind you gentlemen that we've got a public hearing 12 for the tax rate this coming Friday, the second one. It's 13 probably going to be another nonevent, as was last Friday's. 14 And then the following week, the 20th, there will be the 15 meeting to adopt the tax rate, as well as the Ingram -- Lake 16 Ingram Road District. We ready to -- 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Question. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah? 19 MR. EMERSON: Go ahead. One question, an issue 20 that's just general. I don't know what the status is or if 21 y'all have heard anything or not, but just a brief reminder. 22 You're three weeks from the end of the year, and the last I 23 heard from the City, they were canceling the animal contract. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Say it again? 25 MR. EMERSON: I haven't heard anything since. 9-11-06 181 1 Haven't received a request for a contract or any other -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: You mentioned that to me, and you 3 mentioned that to Mr. Hayes, had you not? 4 MR. EMERSON: I did mention that to Mr. Hayes, and 5 he said he hadn't heard anything either; he'd check into it. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Maybe we can lease them the 7 Juvenile Detention facility to put their animals in. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I think it would be a good idea if we 9 put our chief dog catcher on that case. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I haven't heard from them. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Question. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Have we done budget hearings 14 -- budget hearings? Public hearings on the budget? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: There will be one on the 25th. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: And then the adoption of the budget 18 on the 25th. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: There's one public hearing required. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Same date? That's all I 22 wanted to know. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Yeah, got it programmed. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But there's no other -- 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Specifically provides in that statute 9-11-06 182 1 that it may be adopted immediately following the public 2 hearing. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But there's no other changes 4 coming that we know of as to what we had the last time we met? 5 Was that going to be pretty well -- the last workshop? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: No, there's -- there's going to -- 7 there will be some issues come up prior to the adoption of the 8 budget, I feel sure. There always are. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I mean, on that day? Or is 10 there going to be any other hearings in between now and then, 11 or are we going to run it right to the end? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Going on vacation? 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Huh? No, I don't mind. I'm 14 just -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I was going to do it while 16 you're gone if we could. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: This may be a good thing. 18 Normally we have a lot more discussion, and I guess I'm 19 missing out on argument's sake or something. I mean, normally 20 there's a lot more -- more questions about the budget than 21 what we have had this year. I just didn't know if there was 22 any other changes than what Tommy had supplied us all with, or 23 is this kind of where we're headed on the 25th? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: The question was, are you going to be 25 unavailable for some period? 9-11-06 183 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, I am not. I made sure I 2 will be available. But I'd like some forewarning. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we are reaping a little 4 bit of benefit this year from being extremely conservative the 5 past two or three years, and we're able to -- we've been able 6 to downsize, I think, county government. And we have been 7 able to grow, through the tax base growing, into a little more 8 comfortable situation this year. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. But the -- such as the 10 4.2 proposal for all the employees, it's still in? Well, a 11 lot of mine are hearing rumors, et cetera, even from other 12 employees, that it's been changed to 3.0. There's just a lot 13 of rumors -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let the rumors flow. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's hard to do when you got 16 that many. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's still there, 4.2. 18 That's not final; we can do something different. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 20 MR. EMERSON: One other thing for y'all to think 21 about. There's the question of the Treasurer's salary. 22 There's been multiple discussions, and I know there was a memo 23 that went back from the Treasurer; I think it came up to the 24 Court, that said that if -- if the salary does not at least 25 match Commissioners Court, consider this my official written 9-11-06 184 1 notice for grievance procedure. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is this on the agenda? 3 MR. EMERSON: This is a general statement, okay? 4 There's specific time frames associated with doing the 5 grievance procedure, and her letter, I guess, is tied to the 6 attachment showing what her salary would be that's in the 7 budget, and the statute says she has a right to have the 8 grievance hearing before the budget is passed. So -- 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Point well taken. 10 MR. EMERSON: -- y'all think about that. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And we would have to form a 12 grievance committee, and we have to call one up. 13 MR. EMERSON: You're going to have to have a 14 Commissioners Court, and y'all are going to have to decide 15 which of the two procedures that you want to follow. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 17 MR. EMERSON: And then act accordingly within, I 18 think, a 15-day time period. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What are the two procedures? 20 MR. EMERSON: One of them -- one of them has 21 statutory members of the grievance committee, multiple elected 22 officials plus, I think, four members of the public. And the 23 other one is that the Commissioners Court just says that we're 24 going to take nine members of the public and turn it over, and 25 the nine members of the public are basically previous Grand 9-11-06 185 1 Jury members from the last year. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Previous year. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that's -- I thought 4 every year we adopted a format, and that's the format we 5 adopt. I think we do it once a year, and that's the one we've 6 always, I think, adopted. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Actually, I thought we did it 8 the other way. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't think we adopted one. But -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We used to, though. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: But we used to until the statute 12 changed. And now we don't have to make that election until we 13 determine if a grievance committee is necessary, the way I 14 read the statute. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So -- 16 MR. EMERSON: I guess the question at this point is, 17 y'all need to figure out whether or not the statute's been 18 triggered by the attachment to the proposed budget that shows 19 her salary at 27,000 as opposed to her letter that says if you 20 don't make me at least this amount, then I want a grievance. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that's something you 22 have to tell us. Did the budget trigger that period? 23 MR. EMERSON: Tommy would probably have to answer 24 that, because I don't know enough about the budget process to 25 say what the official proposed budget is at what point. 9-11-06 186 1 MR. TOMLINSON: Well -- 2 MR. EMERSON: That's when it kicks in. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: When it was filed, it became a 4 public document, and I think that's effective notice. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Proposed. 6 MR. EMERSON: But the statutes -- I don't know. I 7 don't have enough experience in budgets. That's the problem. 8 MR. TOMLINSON: I think -- I always thought that it 9 said that -- well, that the Court had -- the Court notified 10 each public official of what their salary and -- and budget 11 was. 12 MR. EMERSON: Well -- 13 MR. TOMLINSON: The question is whether or not 14 filing of a proposed budget is notice. I don't know -- I 15 don't ever remember writing an official letter. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, there was a memo sent out to 17 every elected official as to the proposed salary. 18 MR. TOMLINSON: You attached it too, didn't you? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm, yeah. Most of them, it was 20 just an attachment of that public notice that ran August 31st. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What did the Treasurer get? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: She got an attachment that showed 23 what was off the budget. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 27? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Uh-huh, 27,850. 9-11-06 187 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd say that would trigger 2 the -- the period. So, it's 12 days from that date? 3 MR. EMERSON: I don't know. Let me look at my 4 statute. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Meeting this Friday, and when 6 was the next one? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Wednesday. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wednesday, the 20th? At what 9 time? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: I think it's at 10 a.m. That's on 11 the adoption of the tax rate. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have a meeting the 27th, too. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: 25th. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 27th. Deposition. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh. 16 MR. EMERSON: Do you want an answer? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 18 MR. EMERSON: 152.015, Subsection A, the public 19 members of the salary grievance committee shall be selected at 20 a meeting of the court at any time during the year, but not 21 later than the 15th day after the date a request for hearing 22 is received. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What was the date of her letter? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: We can handle it. Let me handle 25 that. 9-11-06 188 1 MR. EMERSON: September 8th. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Is the next step to decide 3 what her salary's going to be? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's already -- I think 5 the -- from what I'm hearing, the grievance has been set, and 6 I guess by her letter, we could -- we have to go with the 7 process of grievance unless the salary's raised to 8 commissioner, which she said she won't do it. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, unless it -- if it's 10 changed to commissioner's level. Lower, and the grievance has 11 been triggered. Well, it's lower right now. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Playing Pong? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Playing games, or what are 15 you doing? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hey. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Buster, full house beats a 18 flush. 19 MR. EMERSON: If y'all don't have a procedure in 20 place, then I think you need to have a Commissioners Court 21 meeting and put one in place pretty quick. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: It's going to happen. 23 MR. EMERSON: Okay. Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right, now. What all was 25 just said? 9-11-06 189 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Full house beats a flush. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. Okay, thank you. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What was just said, I believe, 4 is that we're having a special Commissioners Court meeting 5 real soon. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Did I interpret that correctly, 8 Judge? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Probably. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: To -- to form -- put together 11 -- to decide what avenue we're going to go on the grievance 12 committee and to call that grievance committee in. 13 MR. EMERSON: Correct. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or put it together, whatever 15 it is. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: There's a step before that, 17 I think. Her letter to us says if you leave it at the 18 commissioner's level, this is not a grievance. If you don't 19 leave it at the commissioner's level -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, so -- 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- this is a grievance. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see what you're saying, 23 yeah. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, I think that's step 25 one; decide what level it is. 9-11-06 190 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Are you ready to talk about paying 4 the bills or doing something silly like that, Mr. Auditor? 5 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. I -- first I'd like to ask a 6 request of the Sheriff, if he has a spare deputy he could send 7 along as escort with me tomorrow. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Where are you going tomorrow? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To see the I.R.S. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He's going to -- 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Go in two vehicles. Gas 12 doesn't cost that much. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right where AACOG is, that's 14 where he's going. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Have a fun trip, Tommy. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Want an armored car? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Who else didn't get a copy of the 18 bills? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I did. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: When was that made available? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Last week. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Never got them. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Use mine. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, you've probably got tagged what 25 I want to get tagged. 9-11-06 191 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I got a few things tagged. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Scary, Judge, when you stop 3 getting the memos. 4 MS. THOMPSON: You can borrow mine. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Uh-huh. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Bills -- are we on bills? 7 MR. TOMLINSON: We're on the bills. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move we pay the bills. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Any questions about bills? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I second. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: On Page 8. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, we have a motion and a 13 second here to pay them. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Number 4 made the motion? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. And you seconded? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Any questions or discussion? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Question. Page 8, 198th 20 District Court. There is some travel reimbursement for Judge 21 Ables, who is in the 216th. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sometimes -- 23 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, they -- they've punched the 24 wrong number. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Page 20. This 9-11-06 192 1 question applies to Page 20, 24, and 38. On Page 20, it's 2 Courthouse and Related, but the first item is an item for the 3 Kerr County Treasurer. Same with Page 24, Parks and 4 Maintenance. The item was for the County Treasurer. And on 5 Page 38, Youth Exhibit -- Exhibition Center, first item, 6 again, County Treasurer. Just a question. 7 MR. TOMLINSON: On Page 28? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: 20, 24, and 38. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And 38. 10 MR. TOMLINSON: Oh, 38, okay. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm not saying don't pay the 12 bill. I'm just wondering if it's on the wrong page, that's 13 all. 14 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, no. I think -- I don't know. 15 I'll have to research that to find out. I don't know why 16 that -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Want to look at one of them 18 right quick? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you want to pull them? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pardon? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Want to pull those three or 22 four? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I guess we could pull 25 them till they're located where they properly belong. 9-11-06 193 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You don't want to pass them 2 going to the wrong -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What number do you need to 4 look up? 5 MR. TOMLINSON: That number right there, 5812. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 5812. 7 MR. TOMLINSON: It's all the same, I'm sure. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, the name over here, 9 Treasurer and KPUB, City, that's the -- 10 MR. TOMLINSON: Payee. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Payee. I can see why you 12 asked the question. My kidneys just kicked in. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, particularly vehicle 14 maintenance, fuel reimbursement. All of them are fuel 15 reimbursement. 16 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, it's -- it's -- I don't 17 actually have an invoice on this one. It's payable to -- I 18 don't know; I can't answer the question. I mean, I think it's 19 a reimbursement for -- to -- from one department to another. 20 I think we -- I think we paid the bill, and we're reimbursing 21 one -- one department from another. I'm not sure. I'll have 22 -- I just have to ask the question. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The reference is on Page 20, 24 24, and 38. Same thing, all three. 25 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, they're all the same. They're 9-11-06 194 1 all the same -- see, this is a worksheet that they've done, 2 and it shows the equipment and the person that used the 3 vehicle, and the beginning mileage and the ending mileage. 4 And then we -- this is all that we paid, $211 for this 5 quarter, and 85.60 for this one, and we've broken it down by 6 department, so it's all from the same schedule. I just have 7 to ask my people -- 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 9 MR. TOMLINSON: -- what it is. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, Bill, do you recommend 11 that we go ahead and pay it, hoping that it's a real, live 12 thing? Or -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We pulled it already. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We pulled it. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, okay. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Your kidneys haven't kicked in 17 yet. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Pulled it? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, pulled them. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Pulled those four. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or discussion on 22 the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 23 your right hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 9-11-06 195 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Budget Amendment 3 Request Number 1. 4 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 1 is for Nondepartmental. 5 We're asking for a transfer of $490 from Telephone Access Fees 6 to Telephone in the Nondepartmental. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 10 approval. Any question or discussion? All in favor of the 11 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Budget 16 Amendment Request Number 2. 17 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. Number 2 is for the Tax 18 Assessor. The Tax Assessor's asking for an amendment to 19 transfer $830 from Office Supplies to Bonds and Insurance. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move approval. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 22 MR. TOMLINSON: I do have -- I have a need for two 23 hand checks with that. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Still second it. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move to approve the hand 9-11-06 196 1 checks. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Hand checks to and for what amount? 3 MR. TOMLINSON: They're $500 each to First Insurance 4 Agency. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Two at 500? 6 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes, sir. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: To First Insurance? 8 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. All in favor of the 10 motion to include two hand checks, $500 each, to First 11 Insurance Agency, all in favor, signify by raising your right 12 hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Budget Amendment 17 Request 3. 18 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 3 is for Election Services, 19 request from the County Clerk to transfer 699.99 from 20 Elections Supplies to Operating Equipment. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Any 24 question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify 25 by raising your right hand. 9-11-06 197 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Budget 5 Amendment Request 4. 6 MR. TOMLINSON: Four is for Road and Bridge, to 7 transfer 52.58 from Miscellaneous to Training. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Any 11 question or discussion? All in favor, signify by raising your 12 right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Budget Amendment 17 Request 5. 18 MR. TOMLINSON: Five is for Adult Probation, to 19 transfer $2.02 from Miscellaneous to DOEP Instructor's line 20 item. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Any 24 question or discussion? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Seems like to me last time we 9-11-06 198 1 were pulling money out of the DOEP. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Put it back. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: We did. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All in favor, signify by raising your 5 right hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Budget Amendment Request 6. 10 MR. TOMLINSON: Six is for the County Attorney. 11 He's requested a transfer of 568.56 from his Public Service 12 Account, with 495.92 to Assistant's Salaries and 37.94 to FICA 13 Expense and 34.70 to Retirement. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why didn't we just pick up 15 from one person to the next? 16 MR. TOMLINSON: Apparently, we may have had to pay 17 him some vacation. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There's the County Attorney; 20 he can answer that. 21 MR. EMERSON: What did I do? 22 MR. TOMLINSON: We had to pay Jerry some vacation? 23 MR. EMERSON: Not that I'm aware of, but I couldn't 24 tell you an exact answer, because as far as I know, he never 25 has done his exit paperwork with the Treasurer. That was the 9-11-06 199 1 last I heard. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why aren't we paying the new 3 -- Ms. Bailey just out of Mr. Phillips' old salary? 4 MR. EMERSON: Well, we can, but she makes more than 5 Mr. Phillips did. That's why there's the adjustment in there. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's the answer. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other question or comment? We 9 have a motion? 10 MS. THOMPSON: No. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Any other 14 question or comment? All in favor of the motion, signify by 15 raising your right hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Budget Amendment 20 Request 7. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: Seven is for transfer of funds from 22 General Fund to Indigent Health Care in the amount of 23 21,221.78. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 9-11-06 200 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Any 2 question or comment? All in favor of the motion, signify by 3 raising your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Budget Amendment 8 Request 8. 9 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 8 is -- is for the 10 expenditure of that transfer, to declare an emergency and take 11 from surplus funds the 21,221.78. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to declare 15 an emergency and approve the budget amendment. Any question 16 or comment? How far does this get us away from the 8 percent? 17 Are we going to be able to file any claims? 18 MR. TOMLINSON: We're starting with a new year now. 19 State's year is up. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: This isn't a carryover? 21 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any other question or comment? 23 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 24 hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 9-11-06 201 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Budget Amendment 4 Request 9. 5 MR. TOMLINSON: Nine is for -- between the County 6 Court at Law and County Court. We're asking for a transfer of 7 3,190.69 from Court-Appointed Attorneys in County Court, with 8 1,125.69 to Court-Appointed Attorney in County Court at Law 9 and $2,065 to Master Court Appointments in County Court at Law 10 budget. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved -- second. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Any 14 question or discussion? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Are you going to 16 reduce your budget by $3,100? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: I may have already done it. Yeah, I 18 just did it with that -- or will. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Next year's budget. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't recall. I think I may have 21 reduced it just a little bit. I don't think I increased it. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I mean, that's what you 23 apply to everybody else. By god, you didn't use the $3,200; 24 let's cut it. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Good thing I'm here, isn't it? 9-11-06 202 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Good thing I hung onto some, 3 isn't it, Buster? Any other question or comment? All in 4 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Budget Amendment 9 Request 10. 10 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. Ten is for Juvenile 11 probation. This is from the Chief Probation Officer. His 12 request is to transfer $400 from Retirement and 345.40 from 13 FICA Expenses into Attorney Ad Litem Fees. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Any 17 question or comment? All in favor of the motion, signify by 18 raising your right hand. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Budget Amendment 23 Request 11. 24 MR. TOMLINSON: 11 is for Nondepartmental. We have 25 a need to transfer $230 from Pauper Burial to Autopsies and 9-11-06 203 1 Inquests. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move to approve. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 5 approval. Any question or comment? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We really need to get the 7 medical examiner from Austin down here to -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: True. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- do a school on this. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They have a new one, too, so it 11 may be worth it to get -- Bayardo retired. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: That Travis County Medical Examiner's 13 office is in just a state of chaos, and we're looking at a 14 private M.E. that's going to -- someone off of that staff 15 that's going to set up or has indicated that they are going to 16 set up somewhere in the central Texas -- San Marcos, Seguin, 17 New Braunfels area. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: She was pretty good, but -- 19 JUDGE TINLEY: To do the service. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Travis County is not -- you 21 know, they sent us all notice they may not even accept any 22 more. And, unfortunately, we've had several that have had to 23 go, so this will not be the last deal. But they have been 24 accepting them pretty regularly; it's just hard to get 25 anything out of them. But, yeah, it's going to get -- 9-11-06 204 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Bexar County accepts them? 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Bexar County had kind of done 3 the same thing and weren't going to accept any either. 4 Everybody's getting overloaded and understaffed, but Travis 5 County did finally add more staff. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That would be a -- 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You think Sid Pete could set 8 up a morgue or a forensic lab in their new facility? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Who? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sid Peterson, the new 11 facility. I'm asking, is there any chance that they -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It seems to me, as much as -- I 13 mean, I don't know what it costs to run one of those labs. We 14 got to pay the doctor, but I'm sure it's just, you know, a 15 bunch. But the area counties, I'm sure, do a bunch. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But I can't say what the J.P.'s 17 do or the city, you know, as far as when they order one, but I 18 can tell you that the ones that are out in the county and are 19 actually ordered for an autopsy, a lot of times that's even 20 us, as the Sheriff's Office, requesting it, where the J.P. may 21 not have originally thought there should be one. But when 22 there's any questions that could come up later -- autopsies 23 are kind of a hard thing to do. You get a one-time shot at it 24 and that's it. And I don't want something coming up later on, 25 a death that throws everything into question and we did not 9-11-06 205 1 perform an autopsy to -- to find out the exact cause of death. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Bottom line, what the Sheriff just 3 said is if we want to be mad at somebody for spending too much 4 money on that, be mad at him. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's pretty close to being 6 it. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're mad at you all the time 8 anyway. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: So what's the difference? See, 10 it didn't give you any enjoyment, did it? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: We got a motion? Any other questions 12 or comment? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 13 your right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Budget Amendment 18 Request 12. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: Let me run -- rather than pulling a 20 bill, I'd like to explain this, the bill that Commissioner 21 Williams had. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which one -- which page are 23 you explaining? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: We're back on the bills, the bills 25 that were pulled, the four of them. 9-11-06 206 1 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. It's an internal transaction. 2 These -- these departments get their fuel from Road and 3 Bridge, and we're -- it's an internal journal entry, is what 4 it amounts to. We're reimbursing Road and Bridge. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, we need to revise that 7 motion and leave those four items in. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: When the Judge calls it 9 back, what do we need to do? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: I suppose, just on the four items 11 that were pulled, do I have a motion on that? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 15 of the payment of the four items that were previously pulled. 16 Any question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, 17 signify by raising your right hand. 18 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Budget Amendment -- motion does 22 carry. Budget Amendment Request 12. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. Number 12 is for the 198th 24 District Court. It would be to transfer $420 from Court 25 Transcripts to Court-Appointed Attorneys. 9-11-06 207 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 4 approval. Any question or comment? All in favor of the 5 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carried. Budget Amendment 10 Request 13. 11 MR. TOMLINSON: 13 is for the 216th District Court. 12 They're requesting a transfer of $403.88 from Operating 13 Equipment and $11.47 from Miscellaneous, with $90.35 into 14 Office Supplies and $325 into Special Court Reporter. The 15 item with the asterisk, 5,522.50, we need to declare an 16 emergency and take that from surplus funds. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 20 approval, and as to the Court-Appointed Attorney item, declare 21 an emergency and take it from surplus funds. Any question or 22 comment? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your 23 right hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 9-11-06 208 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Budget Amendment 3 Request 14. 4 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay, 14 is for the Jury department. 5 We're transferring $409 from Operating Supplies to Court 6 Interpreters. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Any 10 question or comments? All in favor of the motion, signify by 11 raising your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Budget Amendment 16 Request 15. 17 MR. TOMLINSON: 15 is for the Law Library. We have 18 a bill for $4,106.18, with no funds. We need to declare an 19 emergency and take from surplus funds to pay this -- pay -- 20 make this payment. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is one of those little bit 22 of gray areas. It's vague whether that qualifies as an 23 emergency, in my mind. 24 MR. TOMLINSON: These aren't tax dollars, though. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is the Law Library 9-11-06 209 1 funds. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It comes from designated funds, 3 but I don't know if it changes the definition of "emergency." 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My question -- 5 MR. TOMLINSON: It's Kerr County -- for county 6 purposes. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My question -- 8 MR. TOMLINSON: I'll say it's for a public purpose. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The balance is now $22. Do 10 not spend any more. Don't order anything else. You only have 11 $22.01 left; don't buy anything else. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I could be wrong. Don't these 13 things come on, like, a subscription; they just mail them to 14 you as updates come? 15 MR. EMERSON: What's the bill? 16 MR. TOMLINSON: This is from West. West Publishing. 17 MR. EMERSON: Yeah. 18 MR. TOMLINSON: Vernon's statutes, Family Code. 19 There's West information charges, $1,320. There's 20 approximately 20 Vernon's statutes. I guess they're an 21 appendix or -- 22 MR. EMERSON: Probably the updates. You get annual 23 updates. 24 MR. TOMLINSON: And that's for 610.99. I don't 25 think -- I think they come -- 9-11-06 210 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 2 MR. TOMLINSON: -- without ordering them. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: May be the ones I put in over Labor 5 Day. Do I have a motion? 6 MS. THOMPSON: No. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There was no motion? 8 MS. THOMPSON: No. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Any 12 questions or comment? All in favor of the motion, signify by 13 raising your right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Budget Amendment 18 Request 16. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: If it'll make you feel any better, 20 this Law Library fund, the fees for -- Law Library fees for 21 court cases are so high that we will -- in my estimation, will 22 never spend all the money that generates in the Law Library. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: The bad news is, that's the only 24 purpose you can spend it for. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can't transfer it anywhere 9-11-06 211 1 else. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It does furnish all the 3 officers with new law books each year. 4 MR. TOMLINSON: Right. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That was a big expense when it 6 was coming out of my budget. 7 MR. TOMLINSON: 16? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Uh-huh. 9 MR. TOMLINSON: This is for Environmental Health. 10 This is request is to transfer 698.31 from Group Insurance, 11 358.31 to Gas, Oil and Maintenance, and $340 to the On-Site 12 Council Fees. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move to approve. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Septic tanks, I'll second. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Any 16 question or comment? 17 (Discussion off the record.) 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Because it's septics tank, I 19 wanted to get in on this thing. I wanted to make the motion. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Any question or comment? All in 21 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Budget Amendment 9-11-06 212 1 Request 17. 2 MR. TOMLINSON: Is from the -- for the jail, from 3 the Sheriff, to transfer 35,109.69 from Jailers Salaries; 375 4 to Employee Medical Exams, 1,364.60 to Operating Supplies, 5 20,720.79 to Prisoner Medical, and 12,649.30 to Utilities. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 7 MR. TOMLINSON: I do need hand checks. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 9 MR. TOMLINSON: For -- one to the Walmart for 10 121.25. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that the employee -- 12 JUDGE TINLEY: 121 what? 13 MR. TOMLINSON: 121.25. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: 121.25, okay. I have a motion -- 15 have a motion and second for approval and check to Walmart -- 16 hand check to Walmart for 121.25. Any question or comment? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The utilities run a hundred -- 18 almost 130,000? 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: This all -- well, I guess 20 that's for August, isn't it? 21 MR. TOMLINSON: That's correct. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Huh? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That was August. 'Cause, I 24 mean, it will be a little bit more. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. 9-11-06 213 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably close to 140,000. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Nice and comfy out there -- 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Not really, but -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: -- in the jail. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Must be. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You keep it so cold. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We only keep a couple of the 8 cells cold, and that's so that all the drunks don't throw up 9 all over the floor. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Little bit too much 11 information. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You wanted it. But we've got 13 30-some-odd very large air conditioners, and as hot as August 14 was, we don't change the settings; they're set and that's it. 15 It's just -- they really got us this last year. 16 MS. THOMPSON: We have a motion and second. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or comment? All 18 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carried. Budget Amendment 23 Request 18. 24 MR. TOMLINSON: 18 is for the Juvenile Detention 25 Facility. This is a request from Kevin Stanton to transfer 9-11-06 214 1 1,138.89 from Retirement, 942.54 to Residential Medical and 2 196.35 to Telephone line item. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Does this take them through 4 the end of the budget year? 5 MR. TOMLINSON: Maybe. I don't know. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't know. So moved. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 9 approval. Any question or comment? All in favor of the 10 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Budget Amendment 15 Request 19. 16 MR. TOMLINSON: 19 is for the Courthouse and Related 17 Buildings. We need to transfer 3,600 from Group Insurance, 18 2,523.52 from Maintenance Superintendent line item. And 19 381.09 goes into Repairs and Maintenance, and 5,741.43 to 20 Utilities. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 24 approval. Any question or comment? All in favor of the 25 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 9-11-06 215 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Budget Amendment 5 Request 20. 6 MR. TOMLINSON: 20 is a request from the Treasurer 7 to transfer $319 from Retirement and 1,681 from Group 8 Insurance, to transfer 2,000 into Part-Time Salaries. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move to approve. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 12 approval. Any question or comment? All in favor of the 13 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Budget Amendment 18 Request 21. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: 21 is for the County Clerk. The 20 Clerk has requested a transfer of 187.95 from Software 21 Maintenance to her Notices line item. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 25 approval. Any question or comment? All in favor of the 9-11-06 216 1 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 2 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 4 (No response.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Budget Amendment 6 Request 22. 7 MR. TOMLINSON: 22 is from Juvenile Probation. We 8 have -- have bills for alternate housing of $26,579, and for 9 Diagnosis and Treatment, we have bills for 3,605, and for 10 Medical, we have invoices for 939.68. We have no funds 11 available, so we have to declare an emergency and take it from 12 surplus funds. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: I guess we don't pay that one. 14 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, I think -- I think the statute 15 says that if you -- if it's a health and safety issue, then 16 the -- the emergency declaration is not an issue. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, health and safety could 18 be debated here, though. The Judge could have sent the kids 19 to our local facility instead of alternate housing. 20 MR. TOMLINSON: That's where they are. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I'll consider sending those that I'm 22 going to hear here in a little bit to your house. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Alternate housing is our 24 place? 25 MR. TOMLINSON: That's right. 9-11-06 217 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, probably most of it is. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: To our place? So, we're 3 taking the money out of the left hand and putting it in the 4 right-hand pocket? So moved. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 7 approval. Any question or comment? All in favor, signify by 8 raising your right hand. 9 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Judge, I want to go back, 14 if I might, and just comment on the Environmental Health 15 issue. That's -- I was thinking about vehicle maintenance, 16 spending some more money on that. When we get back to the 17 budget, I'm going to propose that we not buy a new vehicle for 18 Environmental Health. The one we're talking about trading in 19 has only got 60,000 miles on it. Mine's got 100,000. Len 20 Odom's got 200,000. We don't need to be trading in a vehicle 21 that's got 60,000 miles. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I got patrol cars with 150. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Buster's got 350 on his. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Pretty close. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Not talking about your car, Buster; 9-11-06 218 1 I'm talking about you. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: His body. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: More than that. 4 (Discussion off the record.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We have Budget Amendment 6 Request 23. 7 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. 23 is for the Hill Country 8 Youth Exhibition Center. We need to transfer $225 from 9 Supervisor line item to Part-Time. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move to approve. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 13 approval. Any question or comment? All in favor of the 14 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Do we have any -- 19 any other budget amendments? 20 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Any late bills? 22 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: I have -- I've been presented with 24 monthly reports from the District Clerk, as amended, for June 25 '06; District Clerk for August '06; Justice of the Peace, 9-11-06 219 1 Precinct 2; Justice of the Peace, Precinct 3; and the 2 Sheriff's Department. Do I hear a motion that these reports 3 be approved as presented? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 7 approval. Any question or comment? All in favor of the 8 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 9 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Okay, 13 gentlemen. We have any reports from any of you in your 14 capacity as liaison or otherwise? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I was alerted 16 yesterday to remind Number 4 that ESD Number 2, you have two 17 appointments coming up. I think we do that in December. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, there's two people going 20 off. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Good reminder. I'll talk 22 briefly about Animal Control. Real brief. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: One, Janie broke her 25 kneecap, and she's in a knee immobilizer. She's back at work. 9-11-06 220 1 I don't know how; she can't drive. I guess they put her in 2 the back of one of those trucks and -- and haul her to work. 3 So, she'll be on light duty for a few weeks. What I've handed 4 you here is the results of some work that Commissioner Baldwin 5 and I did with Animal Control about three months ago, I think 6 it was. We spent a couple hours with Janie and all the 7 employees, and helped them work on some -- their thinking 8 about ways to improve their operation. So, one of these 9 sheets is what they came up with about their need for 10 improvement, and that is just shorthand for different 11 procedures they need to work on. And the other one is the 12 goals that they came up with. I'm bringing it up now, because 13 I was out there and saw these on the bulletin board -- 14 employee bulletin board, and I really like what I see here. 15 And it's working. Adoptions are up, euthanasia's down, 16 there's more education of the public, and registrations are 17 increasing, so they're on the right path out there. I just 18 wanted to report that to you and let you know about it. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good. Thank you. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other -- 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Two quick items. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: -- reports? Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Two quick items, Judge. You 24 may remember the Wheatcraft issue in Center Point, and we had 25 a -- T.C.E.Q. conducted a public meeting, and then finally 9-11-06 221 1 issued a -- about a month ago, issued a draft permit for 2 review and comment. The folks in proximity of the Wheatcraft 3 operation have banded together, and they have formed a group 4 called -- what's it called? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: TRPA, Texas Rivers Protection -- 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- Association. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right there. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, Texas Rivers 10 Protection Association. Anyhow, they formed this group, and 11 these folks are contesting the Wheatcraft to T.C.E.Q. -- the 12 Wheatcraft permit. They've retained an attorney, and I'm just 13 giving you a copy of the attorney's letter to T.C.E.Q. 14 outlining the reasons why a contested hearing should be 15 granted. The other thing is that at the upcoming meeting of 16 the AACOG Management Committee and Board, we probably will 17 adopt a procedure for replacement of the executive director, 18 who has indicated he's retiring the first of the year, Al 19 Notzon. So, we'll probably set up a procedure for selecting a 20 new executive director, interviews and whatever, whatever, 21 whatever. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: The indication is that he's going to 23 be retiring at the end of this year? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: January, he's indicated. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 9-11-06 222 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How long has he been there? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think he's been in that 3 job about 30-some-odd years, 38 years or something like that. 4 A long, long time. Long time. So, his replacement will be 5 difficult to find, but we'll go through the process. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He's been named outstanding 7 director in the nation more than once. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Often, yes. He truly is. I 9 don't know of anybody in my experience who has a more 10 commanding knowledge of what a COG's all about than he does. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, when the retirement 12 party hits, let us know. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For sure, yeah. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Expect a good party? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, yeah, should be a good 16 one. They'll move it downtown somewhere. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: More than likely will be. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other reports? The -- the City 19 Council of City of Kerrville is due to consider the EMS issue 20 tomorrow night. And -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What part of it? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: I think just a basic approval of the 23 implementation of the program as they've got it outlined right 24 now. The economics of it, I -- I thought maybe our EMS 25 liaison would want to be there to beat the podium to tell them 9-11-06 223 1 to raise their rates. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I sure can. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's -- I mean, I guess 4 I was a little disappointed about the quickness and lack of 5 thoroughness of their looking at our proposal. I distinctly 6 remember at our joint -- at our workshop of myself saying 7 that, you know, I'll support the budget amount as y'all are 8 requesting, but that comes at a -- basically, an assurance 9 that you all will look at some of our issues. And I recall 10 the City Manager indicating to me at that meeting that, yes, 11 they would, and the fact that he would contact me about some 12 of the sources that I had been quoting at that meeting. Which 13 he never contacted me, and obviously didn't spend much time on 14 our suggestion. So, you can pass that on to the mayor and his 15 counterparts if you so choose, or not. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I may have to take Rusty with 17 me. The Auditor wanted him, but I get first shot at it. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Nope, I got work to do in this 19 county. Y'all have fun. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Maybe he could assign you one of 21 those big bad guys he's got out there. That might be 22 necessary. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I could do that. He'll wear 24 black and white stripes. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wrong side of the bars. 9-11-06 224 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I just -- is it the -- is it 2 the desire of the Court that an effort be made to remind those 3 folks that -- that our budget process this year was based upon 4 that premise? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that's something that 6 I'll bring it -- or it needs to be brought up to them again. 7 I don't think it's a budget issue. I'm not going to say we 8 need to cancel or our EMS contract or not pay the amount, but 9 I think that -- I think it needs to be pointed out to them 10 that they assured us that they were going to look at our 11 concerns, and our first concern, they didn't even give -- you 12 know. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Seems to me they dismissed it out of 14 hand. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In that context, when I was 17 going into the last Airport Board meeting the last Tuesday, I 18 bumped into the Fire Chief in the hall, and he looked like he 19 wanted to say something, so I just said, "Spit it out, 20 Raymond, whatever you got on your mind." But the bottom line 21 was, he said, "Well, you know, it's about -- what do you guys 22 -- what are you guys going to do about EMS?" I said, "We've 23 done it." And I said, "I read in the paper today -- I think 24 in the morning, I read in the paper where you're recommending 25 no change." "Well, I ain't recommending that." I said, 9-11-06 225 1 "Well, whether you did or whether you didn't, that's what I 2 read in the paper." He said, "Well, I'm just telling the City 3 Council the way I see it." So, that's your recommendation. 4 Your recommendation is not -- 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Over at City Hall, they 6 refer to Kerr County government as the ATM. If you need some 7 cash, go over to the middle of town and see those 8 Commissioners. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The big ATM. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: They made a $94,000 11 withdrawal one time. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I think what they're 13 going to say is that we sent over there asking them to adopt 14 the Kendall County schedule, and they're going to say, "We 15 looked at that, and that's it." They did. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think you're right, but I 17 think that's not a good-faith statement made in public. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, that's kind of what we 19 asked them to do, though. Not kind of; that's exactly what we 20 asked them to do, to adopt Kendall County's schedule. And I 21 wish I could remember the comment I got back as to -- even 22 though the rates are small, the amount of money that the 23 County puts in it is a lot more than what we put in -- in 24 ours. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: In Kendall County, you're talking 9-11-06 226 1 about? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's their contention. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, their response was that -- that 4 even though their charges were small, the amount of -- of 5 additional support needed from -- from county government was a 6 whole lot less than these other counties. But the thing that 7 is -- that I cannot comprehend is, why you would, knowing that 8 your cost is a good 50 percent or more higher than what you're 9 charging, your actual cost, why would you continue to set your 10 rates at some figure below known costs? That makes absolutely 11 no sense to me, none whatsoever. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: My recollection is that we 14 still have on the table a possibility of setting those Kendall 15 County rates for runs that are made outside the city limits, 16 to ameliorate the shortfall in the revenues. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: To me, that sets up a -- a 18 disadvantage for the folks who live outside the city limits. 19 We're charging them more money while we continue to subsidize 20 the system to the extent that they want. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You're right. 22 MR. EMERSON: Can I make two general comments? From 23 talking to rank-and-file EMS paramedic/firefighters in the 24 city, number one, the information they're being told does not 25 accurately reflect the communications and the information that 9-11-06 227 1 I've heard exchanged with my own ears. So, they're being fed 2 disinformation. And number two, several of them said that in 3 their meetings for several years, that they've recommended 4 that the City increase the rates to cover actual costs, and 5 they've always been told no. So, that's within their own rank 6 and file. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I've got a mole over there, 8 too. That's true. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is the -- is the problem the 10 Police Chief or City staff? 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: City staff. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's a problem once it gets into 13 the City Manager's office? 14 (Commissioner Nicholson nodded.) 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Police Chief? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Fire Chief, I'm sorry. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What was -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've heard it was the Police 20 Chief. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It wouldn't surprise me. At 22 least I'd understand the problem. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How much is the line item? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: For EMS, the contract's $232,000. 25 The figure they gave us for that contract alone was 231 and 9-11-06 228 1 eight-something. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: An interesting thing, while 3 we're on this topic, I had an exchange -- I think I referred 4 to it at the meeting -- of e-mails from Chief Holloway about 5 what happened to Falling Water Subdivision north of Comfort, 6 and the last e-mail that I got from the Chief on that topic, 7 which was over a two- or three-day period, was that -- that 8 the contract to enter into Kendall County was with the City 9 Attorney. And I asked Rex to check on it, 'cause they wanted 10 to have it done in Falling Water by October. City Attorney 11 never heard anything about it. He's not working on anything. 12 The Police Chief told me in the e-mail -- I might still have 13 it; maybe I'll send it to back to the Police -- I keep saying 14 "Police Chief." Fire Chief. Send it back to Chief Holloway 15 and say, you know, I talked -- "When's this coming out of the 16 City Attorney's office?" Because, evidently, he's not working 17 on it. So, there is some miscommunication going on between -- 18 internally in the City of Kerrville on some of these issues. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, Judge, if you're going 20 over there, you certainly have my blessings on bringing those 21 topics up. Well, I heard -- didn't you say that? Didn't you 22 say, "Y'all want me to say these things"? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, he did. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I want you to say them. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, he's wanting to go over 9-11-06 229 1 there and do it. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Want me to go start the fight again, 3 huh? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm sorry, I misunderstood 5 you. I thought you said you wanted to. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: No, you know my demeanor. I never 7 like to do that. I think four and a half hours is about max 8 before the slippage factor occurs with this group. Do we have 9 anything else, gentlemen? We stand adjourned. 10 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 3:51 p.m.) 11 - - - - - - - - - - 12 13 STATE OF TEXAS | 14 COUNTY OF KERR | 15 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 16 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my 17 capacity as County Clerk of the Commissioners Court 18 of Kerr County, Texas, at the time and place 19 heretofore set forth. 20 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 18th day of 21 September, 2006. 22 23 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 24 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 25 Certified Shorthand Reporter 9-11-06