1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Special Session 10 Friday, September 15, 2006 11 10:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 DAVE NICHOLSON, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X September 15, 2006 2 PAGE 1.1 Public Hearing on proposed FY 2006/2007 tax 3 rate for Kerr County and set meeting to adopt tax rate for September 20, 2006 at 10:00 a.m. 3 4 1.2 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 5 assert claim on Treasurer's official bond for losses incurred by Kerr County in the amount of 6 $2,507.37 resulting from the County Treasurer's failure to timely file and/or pay sums due to 7 TCDRS as required 4 8 1.3 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to set salary of County Treasurer for FY 2006-2007 15 9 1.4 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 10 select type and method of constitution of Salary Grievance Committee, take appropriate action to 11 name and notify members of such Committee and set date(s) for any required meeting(s) of Committee 47 12 --- Adjourned 49 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 On Friday, September 15, 2006, at 10:00 a.m., a special 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in the 3 Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville, 4 Texas, and the following proceedings were had in open court: 5 P R O C E E D I N G S 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. 7 Let me call to order this special Commissioners Court meeting 8 scheduled for this date and time, Friday, September 15th, 9 2006, at 10 a.m. It looks like we're pretty well out of 10 seats. If we have any -- any additional increase in the 11 crowd -- we've got a couple over here, I'm given an 12 indication, maybe one or two back in the back, one over here. 13 If -- if we need extra space, we can go upstairs. I'd prefer 14 not to have to do that once we get started, but if that's what 15 we need to do to accommodate everybody, we'll do that. The 16 first item on the agenda is a public hearing, so at this time, 17 I will convene a public hearing on the proposed Fiscal Year 18 2006-2007 tax rate for Kerr County, and set a meeting to adopt 19 that tax rate for September the 20th, 2006, at 10 a.m. 20 (The regular Commissioners Court meeting was closed at 10:01 a.m., and a public hearing was held in open 21 court, as follows:) 22 P U B L I C H E A R I N G 23 JUDGE TINLEY: At this time, is there any member of 24 the public or the audience that wishes to be heard with regard 25 to the proposed Fiscal Year 2006-2007 tax rate for Kerr 9-15-06 4 1 County? Anybody wishing to be heard, please feel free to come 2 forward. Give us your name and address and tell us what's on 3 your mind about the tax rate. I see no one moving for 4 recognition or otherwise coming forward, so I will close the 5 public hearing on the proposed Fiscal Year 2006-2007 tax rate 6 for Kerr County. 7 (The public hearing was concluded at 10;02 a.m., and the regular Commissioners Court meeting was 8 reopened.) 9 - - - - - - - - - - 10 JUDGE TINLEY: The matter has already been set for 11 -- for final adoption on Wednesday, September the 20th, 2006, 12 at 10 a.m., by virtue of public notice already published, so 13 the matter will be taken up at that time. I will move now to 14 the addendum to the agenda, and Item 2; consider, discuss, and 15 take appropriate action to assert claim on Treasurer's 16 official bond for losses incurred by Kerr County in the amount 17 of $2,507.37 resulting from the County Treasurer's failure to 18 timely pay and/or pay sums due to Texas County and District 19 Retirement System as required by applicable statutes, 20 regulations, or rules. The matter was on a previous agenda of 21 the Court, and at that time, the figures were not specific, 22 and the request was made by one or possibly more than one 23 member of the Court that we should get the figures specific, 24 bring it back, and bring the matter up at that time. I have 25 not included any sums to the Internal Revenue Service that was 9-15-06 5 1 included on the original agenda item. The $527.01, I believe 2 it was, levy, while it has been paid, I'm not including that 3 in this agenda item because we've got another one outstanding 4 that has not yet been satisfied. We don't know the outcome of 5 that, so that possibly will come at a later time. The 6 T.C.D.R.S. notifications, members of the Court have been 7 provided with that, aggregating the total four different 8 instances in which those sums were not paid timely resulting 9 in administrative penalties or fees of $500 each on each of 10 the four occasions, plus interest, the total amount being 11 $2,507.37. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, let me ask you a 13 question. On the cover letter from the retirement system, it 14 shows a figure of 538.38. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, sir. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then on Page -- on the 17 next letter, it's 530.38. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, sir. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that two different -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Those are -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- issues? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. The -- the first one, as 23 you'll note, is the report for the month of April '05. The 24 second one -- and the figure that you mentioned is for the 25 September '02 report, as indicated in that -- 9-15-06 6 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: -- earlier portion of that letter. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, thank you. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is the County Attorney here? 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The reason is, after looking at 7 these, I think I made the comment last week that I think this 8 is a -- this is a cost to the taxpayers, these fees. They 9 come out of the retirement system, and the retirement -- and 10 the funds come out of the retirement system, and our balance 11 in that system is determined -- determines the rate that we 12 pay the retirement system. So, indirectly, there certainly is 13 a relationship there, which I have a problem with. I was 14 aware of the one last year, and had heard that there were 15 previous ones. This is the first time I've looked -- or seen 16 them, and I'm a little concerned about the dates on them. The 17 other three that are listed on here are from 2002; 18 January 2002 late payment, February 2002, and September 2002. 19 And elected officials are on four-year terms, and we have 20 four-year bonds. I really need to hear from the County 21 Attorney about how you go back that far, if we chose to do it. 22 They're -- it seems like that's a -- I mean, it's a pretty big 23 issue, I mean, the length of time there. So, that's kind of 24 something I would like to find out. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: These came to light as a result of 9-15-06 7 1 the one last year, when I received notification, and there was 2 some follow-up inquiry made. It may well be possible that 3 there'll have to be claims asserted on two different bonds, 4 and if -- if that's the case, why, that's the case. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. And the other issue that 6 I really wanted to talk to the County Attorney about a little 7 bit goes into a -- it's a precedent thing. I think these are 8 -- what's the word? -- more, I guess, blatant mistakes; that's 9 probably not a good choice of words. Of mistakes made that 10 cost taxpayers money, and it's certainly against the bond. 11 I've talked to several constituents that have this same 12 concern. And these conditions, I might add, are really -- 13 they didn't have an opinion on one side or the other. Their 14 concern was more precedent setting, as to if you assert -- or 15 if we start asserting claims against elected officials' bonds, 16 what does that mean? If -- and I see Rusty sitting here. Say 17 Rusty's driving a car and takes a sip of coffee and hits a 18 deer, and he's costing the taxpayers money by having a wreck, 19 hurting the county vehicle. Well, that's a mistake that he 20 made. 21 Is -- you know, granted, it's a very different 22 mistake than we're talking about here, but it is a mistake, 23 and I'm sure there are other, if not all, elected officials 24 that have made decisions and/or mistakes that have indirectly 25 cost the taxpayers money. I was on my way to -- Commissioner 9-15-06 8 1 Baldwin and I were, several years ago, on the way to Abilene, 2 and I was not paying attention and I made a wrong turn, and we 3 ended up about 50 miles out of the way. You know, that -- 4 that was mileage that was turned in to the County, so I made a 5 mistake on how I got to Abilene, and it cost the taxpayers 6 about, oh, $15, $20. So, should that be against my bond? I 7 just have a real concern against where you draw the line. I 8 think these are different in a degree -- in a respect, but 9 it's a slippery slope that I'm worried about as to how you end 10 up saying, okay, this mistake, we should go against the bond, 11 and others we shouldn't. 12 I have a real problem with what -- the mistakes 13 being made here. The 2002 ones, I wasn't aware, and to me, 14 that -- those ones are more of a problem. We had two months 15 in a row when this amount wasn't paid on time, then another 16 time later that year. Clearly, after the first one, the 17 Treasurer was aware that a huge penalty comes when these 18 payments to the retirement aren't made on time, and yet 19 there's three more after the first one. So, you know, I'm 20 certainly not trying to gloss over it. I think it is a 21 serious mistake, but I'm not sure how the best way to assert a 22 claim against that is. Since -- you know, if there's some -- 23 if you could show me that this is an intentional item, that's 24 very different, but from what she has told the Court 25 previously, it was a mistake. And that's just kind of a 9-15-06 9 1 couple things I'd really like to talk to the -- visit with the 2 County Attorney on both those issues. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I've got a -- I share your 4 interest in hearing from the County Attorney on those two 5 issues, and then there's another issue that I'd like to hear 6 from either the County Attorney or Auditor or whoever else 7 might know, that can answer my question, is what are the 8 consequences of asserting a claim on the bond? Does it make 9 it more difficult for office holders to get bonds in the 10 future? Does it make it more costly? Is the reputation of 11 the County harmed by asserting a claim? Those are questions 12 that I'd like to hear the answers to. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I seem to recall in earlier 14 discussions on this particular matter, with respect to the 15 Texas District/County Retirement System late payments and 16 penalties, that the Treasurer offered to reimburse the 17 T.C.D.R.S. out of her own pocket, as opposed to asserting a 18 claim and so forth. The issue here is not necessarily tax 19 money in any huge amount. It is an erosion of the pool of 20 money that goes to pay the benefits for those who retire under 21 the Kerr County retirement system, under the T.C.D.R.S. 22 system. I'm wondering if that offer still stands. Ms. Nemec? 23 MS. NEMEC: May I address the Court, please? 24 (Ms. Nemec handed out documents.) 25 MS. NEMEC: This is the original check that will be 9-15-06 10 1 deposited today for $2,507.37. I take full responsibility for 2 anything that goes on in my office, and I don't think it's 3 fair to the taxpayers to have to pay that money. And as 4 Mr. -- Commissioner Williams said before, I had offered to pay 5 that money before, and this check will be deposited today. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Looks like that ends that 7 issue. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything further from any member of 9 the Court? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would -- just a -- I don't 11 want to belabor this. Hopefully this won't come up again. At 12 some point, you know, I think it would be a good idea to get a 13 bonding company -- a representative in here to explain our 14 bonds a little bit. I don't know much about them; I just know 15 we have to get one. I don't even know what it covers. It 16 would be interesting to see if this is a -- if mistakes are 17 covered under those bonds. Just curiosity. 18 MS. NEMEC: And I did talk to the bonding company 19 and asked if this was okay for me to do, and they said yes. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. 21 MS. NEMEC: And as far as the I.R.S., I'd like to 22 pass out to you a release of levy as of yesterday. 23 (Applause.) 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One more, please. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Coming this way. 9-15-06 11 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: One more -- oh, we got 2 enough, Barbara. 3 MS. NEMEC: Got enough? 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Hand me that one, please. 5 MS. NEMEC: I was at the I.R.S. in San Antonio for 6 the last two days trying to take care of this problem. 7 Basically, what they told me was when I get those notices, do 8 not call Pennsylvania; go straight to San Antonio, and they'll 9 take care of it right there and then. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's the time frame for 11 completing this matter? 12 MS. NEMEC: The levy was lifted yesterday. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's not what I just 14 heard. What I heard you say was there is still material and 15 documents that have to be submitted. Is that what I heard? 16 MS. NEMEC: No, everything's been submitted. 17 Everything's been taken care of. But what the I.R.S. told me 18 yesterday was that in the future, if we -- if I ever get 19 another notice to that effect, do not try to call Pennsylvania 20 and talk to different clerks that answer the phone, because 21 you're never going to get the same person, and there are only 22 two tax specialty -- specialists that are dealing with 23 governmental agencies, that really know what they're talking 24 about, and two of them are located in San Antonio. So, they 25 said as soon as I get one of those, just go down there and 9-15-06 12 1 they'll fix it right there and then. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Seems to me that that was my 3 suggestion the other day, that San Antonio would be a proper 4 place to do this, as opposed to Bensalem, Pennsylvania. My 5 question, though, is to the base issue. Have we resolved the 6 base issue of our classification with I.R.S. semiweekly versus 7 twice-monthly? 8 MS. NEMEC: We have. What is happening is, at the 9 end of the year, there's voided checks; there's reissued 10 checks. If a department forgets to turn in time for an 11 employee, then I have to do a separate check, and what happens 12 is you have to -- on your Schedule B, you have to put down 13 what your liability is. In Pennsylvania, they're doing it one 14 of two ways. Every time you talk to somebody, it's a 15 different way. They're taking the tax liability at the time 16 of your payroll, and then some are taking the tax liability of 17 what you pay. But that's why, when I went to San Antonio, he 18 took my Schedule B, he inputted it in the computer, it all 19 balanced and everything was fine. So, the -- the part of 20 semimonthly and monthly is cleared. That's not a -- that's 21 not the problem. The problem is the way the I.R.S. clerks are 22 determining -- and they take an average, like Mr. Tomlinson 23 said the other day, and that's how they come up with -- that 24 it doesn't balance. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Very good. 9-15-06 13 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Very good. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: But it resolved after they put the 3 Schedule B information into the computer? 4 MS. NEMEC: I'm sorry? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: It was resolved after they put the 6 Schedule B information into the computer? 7 MS. NEMEC: After they put it in the correct way. 8 Because the Schedule B was put in the computer, but it was 9 done incorrectly. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything further from any 11 member of the Court on this matter? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. Is there any 14 member of the audience that has filed a participation form on 15 that particular item? 16 MR. TRIGO: Could I address the Court? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Please come forward. Give us your 18 name and address. Is this as to the bond item? 19 MR. TRIGO: The bond item, yes. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All right, sir. 21 THE WITNESS: My name is Steve Trigo; that's 22 T-r-i-g-o. I reside at 165 Scenic Valley Road. That's 23 Precinct 1. With regards to the bond being discussed, I have 24 recently requested an Open Records statement from other 25 elected and appointed county officials, and would like to 9-15-06 14 1 know, should the financial losses by county officials -- will 2 the same action being discussed today be imposed on other 3 county officials? As you was saying, Mr. Letz, if you should, 4 for some reason, veer off the road and cost the taxpayers 5 money for extra gas, are you going to be liable for that? Can 6 I get an answer on that? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Sir, I'm not sure we have an answer 8 for you. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That was the question. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think my comments -- I mean, 11 there's a question there. I think it's something you have to 12 -- you know, that's why I brought it up. I don't think that 13 is a -- a good decision, but I think there's also -- this is 14 different than that. I mean, so I think it's a -- you know, 15 there's different kinds of mistakes, but I brought that up for 16 that very reason. I think that if we're going to pursue 17 something like this, it needs to be done consistently, and I 18 think that we need to get more -- I need to get more 19 information before I'd be willing to do that, because I -- 20 MR. TRIGO: That's why I'm asking. Is the same 21 action going to be taken on other officials? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Like I say, I didn't put this on 23 the agenda today. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Don't know. 25 MR. TRIGO: You don't know? 9-15-06 15 1 JUDGE TINLEY: No. 2 THE WITNESS: Then why are we discussing Ms. Nemec's 3 bond right now, if you don't know this? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Pardon? 5 MR. TRIGO: If you don't know an answer to this, why 6 are we discussing Ms. -- the Treasurer's bond right now? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: We had some specific losses that were 8 incurred, and that's the reason we're here, on that issue, 9 that specific narrow issue. 10 MR. TRIGO: I think you're setting a precedent here. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't think any precedent has been 12 set as a result of no action being taken. 13 MR. TRIGO: Well, I just -- I'm just wondering, 14 because I have letters -- you got one yourself, Judge, so... 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. Does any member of the 16 audience wish to be heard with respect to Item 2 on the 17 agenda, the bond issue? Let's move on, then, to Item 3. 18 Consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to set salary 19 of County Treasurer for Fiscal Year 2006-2007. I placed this 20 matter on the agenda. When -- when I performed my statutory 21 duty as budget officer for Kerr County, I plugged in a salary 22 for all the elected officials, including the County Treasurer. 23 I plugged in the salary of the County Treasurer for $27,850. 24 I did so because of the -- initially, because of the 25 notification which the Treasurer served on the Court in 9-15-06 16 1 approximately mid-June of this year that, effective -- I 2 believe she said effective August 1; that was later extended 3 to October 1 -- she was no longer going to be performing her 4 human resource function, claiming that she had -- didn't have 5 the adequate resources. I noted at that time that -- as did 6 other members of the Court, that she had an unfilled position 7 that she's not taking steps to fill, but notwithstanding that, 8 she put the Court on notice she was not going to do that. I 9 considered that a significantly large portion of her duties 10 and responsibilities, and in preparing my proposed budget 11 which I subsequently filed, I reduced that salary because of a 12 significant reduction in those duties and responsibilities. I 13 must admit that there were some performance issues that came 14 to mind over the past year that had arisen that also played 15 into my thinking, but I performed my duty as budget officer. 16 That's what I plugged into the budget. I thought it was 17 appropriate then; I think it's appropriate now. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My comment earlier was, at a 19 previous meeting, I think there is a reduction in duty. I 20 thought your reduction was too much, and I proposed that the 21 salary be reduced to the same as commissioners. And I think 22 there's a -- the number for that is somewhat arbitrary. 23 It's -- I didn't -- you know, I just picked a number, same as 24 commissioner, to try to keep salaries somewhat tied to 25 different things. And I -- I agree that the -- there is a 9-15-06 17 1 reduction in workload, but my recollection before I was on the 2 Court -- I do see Commissioner -- former Commissioner and 3 future Commissioner Oehler in the audience. He may be able to 4 answer this. I don't know if it was done during his time on 5 the Court or not, but all the -- County Treasurer, Tax 6 Assessor, County Clerk and District Clerk were all equalized 7 just before I got on the Court, as I understand it. I'm not 8 sure exactly when it was. And I believe at that time, some of 9 these functions were not being done by the Treasurer, or just 10 recently done, or adjustment was made at that time. But prior 11 to that, her salary -- or the Treasurer's salary, not 12 necessarily Ms. Nemec's -- was lower than the other -- those 13 other three elected officials I named. I'm not sure exactly 14 where that salary was, but I know it was lower. I don't think 15 it was in the neighborhood of half or 40 percent, the 16 difference. So, thinking of that, and also of the reduction 17 in workload by taking the position off of the human resources 18 function, which I think is better served in its own 19 department, I stand by what I said previously, that I think 20 the salary should be the same as the Commissioners. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I had taken a position 22 earlier that I needed to reflect on the matter, and did, and 23 did some research on the matter. And what I reviewed is what 24 Commissioner Letz just said; that I believe it was in '94-'95 25 budget -- I believe that was what it was, either '93-'4 or 9-15-06 18 1 '94-'5, the Treasurer's salary was brought to parity with 2 other elected officials. And that followed on the heels of -- 3 of the time frame in which the Treasurer's office was given by 4 Commissioners Court the human resource function. It is not 5 one of her constitutional responsibilities; it is something 6 that was taken on. Based on the letter that the Treasurer 7 sent to us saying that she no longer wished to do that work -- 8 I made less comments because of what I read in here. Based on 9 the letter that was sent to us by the Treasurer indicating 10 that she no longer wished to do that work, we then moved 11 forward to set up a human resources department. 12 I, frankly, think that is a good thing to do. I 13 supported it when we first talked about it. I supported it 14 and worked for it with Commissioner Nicholson. I support it 15 and believe it is the appropriate thing to do today. With 300 16 employees, we are in need of a full-time human resources 17 department that takes care of all of the issues of law 18 relating to the employment of people. And having said that, I 19 believe that we did the right thing, and I would do it again 20 if it came before us tomorrow. I joined Commissioner Letz in 21 my second-week discussion on this -- second time we discussed 22 this, and I concur with his assessment of the matter. I 23 believe a reduction is in order. I don't believe a cut down 24 of $15,000 or $16,000 or $17,000 is in order, and I support 25 the levy of the -- the level of compensation for the Treasurer 9-15-06 19 1 to be set at the same as commissioners, $43,257. I move that. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: 43,257? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I believe that's what the 4 new Commissioners Court level is. Is that correct? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think so. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If that's not it, then 7 whatever it is. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll second it. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And move the budget be set 10 accordingly. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll second that. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and second that the 13 County Treasurer's salary for Fiscal Year 2006-2007 be set at 14 -- excuse me -- $43,257. Mr. Tomlinson, could you verify that 15 figure for us? 16 MR. TOMLINSON: For -- 17 JUDGE TINLEY: As being the equivalent of a proposed 18 commissioner's salary, so that we're dealing with a real 19 number and not something that we're having to go chase? I 20 appreciate that. The number you want is whatever that number 21 is? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. We have a motion and a 24 second. Is there any discussion on the motion? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Judge, I have a little 9-15-06 20 1 bit different point of view of the whole thing. I understand 2 where the two Commissioners are coming from, lowering the 3 salary to the commissioner's level. But I also understand 4 what -- what you have done. You've -- the Judge has actually 5 calculated and pulled out a real number that somewhat makes 6 sense. So many times in here, we simply reach up in the air 7 and grab a number, and I've always been uncomfortable with 8 that, but it has to be done sometimes. But I have a different 9 -- little bit different perspective on the thing. I think 10 that there is a perception in the community that this thing 11 has turned into a -- just a battle between Judge Tinley and 12 the County Treasurer. So -- and I think -- I think that's a 13 bad thing. I think there's a better way to handle this, and 14 my proposal is that we -- yes, we do lower the salary, but we 15 lower it to a point -- and I'm recommending 35,000 -- to a 16 point that would cause the Treasurer to go to the grievance 17 committee. Because I believe that, because of the political 18 part of it, it needs to be removed from this court and put in 19 a jury of peers of -- of folks that are base people that are 20 out in the community; that we put that group together and 21 bring them together and provide them with all the information, 22 let them make a decision, and then we live with it. That's -- 23 that is -- I just think that that's the best plan. Because if 24 we -- if we go on -- I believe if we go on the route that 25 we're going right now, there will forever be a cloud on this 9-15-06 21 1 Court. And it's nothing but perception of the community, and 2 as we all learn sitting here, perception is 75 percent of the 3 game. And I just think a clean, clear way to do it is turn it 4 over to a grievance committee, provide them with all the 5 information, and let them make the decision. That's all. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Judge, when I look at 7 the -- compare the duties and responsibilities of the 8 Treasurer's office compared to the three other jobs -- 9 AUDIENCE: Could he speak up, please, so we can 10 hear? 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Compared to three other 12 jobs that are similarly paid -- that would be the District 13 Clerk and the County Clerk and the Tax Assessor/Collector -- I 14 can see that their duties and responsibilities are 15 significantly larger than the Treasurer's, and so I would 16 support bringing the Treasurer's salary more in line along the 17 lines that Commissioner Letz has proposed, with -- with other 18 salaries in the county. And I -- you need some sort of a 19 benchmark, and commissioner -- county commissioner's salary is 20 as good a benchmark as any. There's -- as you know, I think 21 county commissioners may be paid too much, but we're paid what 22 we're paid. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other discussion or comments to 24 be offered by members of the Court? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I -- I'll just make another 9-15-06 22 1 comment. I mean, I like what Commissioner Baldwin said a 2 great deal. I will probably support the motion that I 3 seconded, but I think that is a good idea, and I wouldn't -- 4 you know, if there's a grievance filed, I wouldn't be upset 5 with that option either. And I think that -- you know, I 6 think all elected officials can -- you know, we could open 7 that up for all elected officials, get input on salaries. 8 Might not be a bad idea. There's -- I think the -- I come 9 very, very close with Commissioner Nicholson on commissioner's 10 salary. As I've been a commissioner, there's been one 11 increase other than a cost-of-living. I think everyone should 12 get cost-of-living increases. I think it -- you know, that's 13 just -- to me, that's almost common sense. But there was one 14 adjustment upward, which I voted against, and they were just 15 trying to -- you know, several years ago after the Nash study, 16 there was a couple -- $2,000 increase for commissioners. I 17 voted against that at the time. But I -- you know, overall, I 18 think that the review of elected official's salary is 19 something that's good to do, and a grievance committee may be 20 a good thing to form at some point to get input on that. At 21 this point, I'm willing to support the -- the motion I 22 seconded. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: The grievance committee, of course, 24 is something that is -- can only be triggered by the employee 25 or the elected official whose salary is in question, as I 9-15-06 23 1 understand it. And, of course, that would be truly 2 representative government, because the people we are elected 3 to represent will have the direct opportunity to set that 4 salary, after having all relevant facts with respect to the 5 duties, the responsibilities, qualifications, and the 6 performance. But it's something that we cannot trigger here. 7 It's got to be triggered by the affected elected official 8 under the statute. But that -- that, certainly -- as 9 Commissioner Baldwin said, I don't like the perception that 10 it's some sort of a personal matter as -- as between myself 11 and the Treasurer. It's -- the perception is going to be what 12 the perception is going to be. The only thing I can say is 13 that I'm looking at performance and duties and 14 responsibilities, and that's what I base my decision on, as I 15 indicated earlier. Is there any member -- I've got some 16 participation forms here, and -- and I'm going to allow these 17 people to participate. If there's anyone else, I'm going to 18 give them the opportunity to participate also, in case they 19 did not file a participation form. The first one that I have 20 here is Lexy Michalec. Do you wish to be heard, Ms. Michalec? 21 MS. MICHALEC: Yes. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Please come forward. Give us your 23 name and address, and tell us what's on your mind. 24 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Judge, before you get into the 25 discussion, so that everybody would know, could you explain 9-15-06 24 1 how the grievance committee would be set up? Is there a 2 constitution that -- I mean, is there some kind of bylaws that 3 says it has to be a certain person here, or are they appointed 4 by the Commissioners Court or the County Judge? How would 5 that -- how would that grievance committee be set up? That 6 might resolve a lot of issues that people would have a 7 question about. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I'm not sure we're on the 9 grievance committee issue; that's the next agenda item. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're not on that item. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: We're not on that item. That's the 12 next -- 13 JUDGE ELLIOTT: But the discussion was, if we can't 14 -- if you can't agree, maybe we ought to let the grievance 15 committee, since they're some objective third-party group of 16 citizens, when, actually, they're actually appointed by 17 members of the Commissioners Court. Then that wouldn't really 18 necessarily be so third-party objective. 19 MS. HILMERS: They're not. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, unfortunately, Judge Elliott, 21 we're not to that particular item. 22 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Okay. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Not appropriate within the agenda 24 item. Ms. Michalec? Please come forward. 25 MS. MICHALEC: Lexy Michalec, 1603 Ranchero Road 9-15-06 25 1 here in Kerr County. And I can personally vouch that Barbara 2 Nemec has been at the office working past the normal working 3 hours. In fact, I've observed her working many times past 4 midnight, 2 o'clock, 3 o'clock in the morning on several 5 occasions. I visited her at her home while she was still 6 working on County Treasurer duties, and therefore, I do not 7 believe it should be -- her salary should be lowered. I think 8 that she does a lot of community service other than just -- 9 you know, that's my opinion. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. Linda Arrellano? 11 MS. ARRELLANO: Yes, sir. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: If you'll come forward, give us your 13 name and address, please. 14 MS. ARRELLANO: My name is Linda Arrellano. I 15 reside at 122 West Lane in Kerr County. To -- Commissioner 16 Baldwin, to your statement as to you don't believe that it's 17 in y'all's place to decide what the salary should be, I 18 believe that is something that y'all were elected to do, to 19 actually rule on these types of issues, and that's why they -- 20 y'all have put this before the Court. I also believe that 21 when you say you're not going to pull numbers out of thin air, 22 I think that's what you just did with the 35,000. The only 23 cloud that is on this Court, I believe, is the one that Judge 24 Tinley has been placing over and over again. I do believe 25 that the duties that Ms. Nemec has as Kerr County Treasurer 9-15-06 26 1 began with her constitutional duties when she was elected to 2 office way back when. Those have not changed. Her salary 3 should be kept in line with what her history and her 4 experience has been given to this community. When she took 5 over those duties for human resources, she did it without an 6 increase. The increase was given to her to keep her in line 7 with the other offices, and now you're trying to not only take 8 the actual increase that you gave her to keep her in line with 9 the other offices, but you're trying to decrease what she was 10 elected to this office with, the amount that she was elected 11 to this office with. And I would actually ask the Court to 12 research whether -- the fact that you're trying to lower an 13 elected official's salary after she's already been elected to 14 the County -- appointed position. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. Pat Dye Hilmers. 16 MS. HILMERS: Good morning. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Morning. 18 MS. HILMERS: My name is Pat Dye Hilmers; I'm 19 retired County Clerk. My address is 306 Aaron Drive in 20 Kerrville. And I look around this courtroom, and I see Bruce 21 and I see Linda, and I see some of you -- I see so many people 22 that I know. But -- and I also know each of you, and thank 23 you for letting me talk. I'm quite concerned and disappointed 24 in the way our county government is right now because of the 25 way our Treasurer, Barbara Nemec, has been treated. I also 9-15-06 27 1 feel that it may be a form of harassment, because it's been 2 ongoing. I have pondered for weeks on this problem, and I 3 feel the members of the Commissioners Court need to have more 4 information on our history of Kerr County. The County Clerk 5 and the District Clerk, Tax Assessor/Collector, and the 6 Treasurer have always been paid the same salary in my 7 recollection. As a growing county, many changes have taken 8 place. I started working for the county in 1975. Excuse me, 9 allergies are getting me. Soon after that, our county was 10 large enough that an auditor had to be hired. Don Williamson 11 was hired. 12 In the beginning of county government, we had the 13 Tax Collector -- text Tax Assessor/Collector and the Sheriff 14 as one office -- one office. Then the offices were separated. 15 The County Clerk and the District Clerk were combined, then 16 they were separated. The County Clerk did all the bills. A 17 part-time deputy County Clerk worked four or five days every 18 month helping Dorothy Pfeiffer do the bills. The County Clerk 19 did the insurance and the retirement for all County employees. 20 The Treasurer did all the checks and the bookkeeping that went 21 into payroll. She and the County Clerk worked together as a 22 team to accomplish their work and balanced all the county 23 accounts. After Ms. Emmie Muenker retired in 1982, I ran for 24 the office and was elected. I took office January 1, 1983. 25 Soon after that, Don Williamson came to me and said 9-15-06 28 1 it was time for me to give up the responsibility for the 2 retirement and the insurance to our County Treasurer, Dorothy 3 Hillburn. I questioned him at length, because I didn't want 4 to give up anything. I checked with Mrs. Hillburn. I checked 5 with the County Attorney, and after much deliberation, and 6 with prayerful consideration, I decided he was right. I told 7 him that we would do this, but he would have to take over all 8 of the county bills. I understood that was one of the major 9 responsibilities of a County Auditor, and Don Williamson 10 agreed. He hired a full-time deputy auditor. My salary was 11 not cut. Dorothy Hillburn's salary was not raised. The 12 County Clerk and the District Clerk and the Treasurer and the 13 Tax Assessor/Collector still made the same salary. The 14 Commissioners Court appointed Barbara Nemec Treasurer upon the 15 retirement of Dorothy Hillburn. She was her deputy. She has 16 carried on and performed all the responsibilities of the 17 Treasurer's office, and in my opinion, her salary should not 18 be reduced. She still has the same responsibilities by 19 statute that she has been performing. And her part-time 20 deputy position shouldn't be taken away either. 21 Before Dorothy Hillburn was Treasurer, Mrs. McDonald 22 had a part-time deputy. She did not do the county retirement 23 or the county insurance. In 1985, the Commissioners Court, et 24 al, made the decision that a County Court at Law or a district 25 court was needed in our county. The Texas Legislature would 9-15-06 29 1 not finance another district court, but they would approve 2 county courts at law, because the counties would be funding 3 them, not the state. Our County Court at Law was established 4 and Bill Baskette was hired to fill the new position, and I 5 was appointed clerk of that court. There was a great amount 6 of work to be done to set up a new court, and a great deal of 7 duties for me and my staff. I did not receive any additional 8 salary for accepting this responsibility. The County Judge, 9 Gordon Morris, didn't have his salary cut to help defray the 10 cost of Bill Baskette's salary. The only people hired were an 11 administrative clerk and a court reporter for Bill Baskette 12 and the court. My staff did double duty, and no one was hired 13 extra in my office. 14 One occasion I remember as County Clerk was with 15 Precinct 1, Fred Holland, our new -- with our new optic 16 scanner voting machine. I had used three of the five machines 17 in our largest voting precincts for the last election, and one 18 had been dropped. They were big, huge, bulky, and very hard 19 to handle. This machine never functioned perfectly after 20 that. Right? I had decided to have all machines for central 21 counting station on election night. So, about 30 minutes 22 before our 9 a.m. Commissioners Court meeting, where 23 Mr. Holland and I were to have a heated discussion, he came to 24 my office for me to type a letter for him. This was customary 25 that I would do this, or Dorothy Pfeiffer, our Commissioners 9-15-06 30 1 Court deputy would do for all the Commissioners. He remarked 2 that he didn't understand me doing this for him because in a 3 few minutes, we would be in court arguing. I told him I 4 didn't hold grudges and this was my job, and that I respected 5 him, and he smiled. In court after the discussion, 6 Commissioner Victor Lich said, "Gentlemen, the entire county 7 elected Mrs. Dye to run our county-wide elections. I think we 8 should let her do her job as she sees fit." And that ended 9 the discussion. 10 Commissioner Lich was like me in the sense that he 11 came up through the ranks. He had worked for Adolph Bartels, 12 I understand, and had an excellent understanding of county 13 government. Barbara Nemec also came up through training in 14 the Treasurer's office under Dorothy, and she had an excellent 15 understanding of county government. The other day, I was 16 asked to write a letter about one of our past commissioners, 17 and I agreed to do that. I wrote that he was always prepared 18 for each meeting, each budget session, and knew his facts so 19 he could make an educated decision. He was always fair and 20 respectful, and I enjoyed working with him. I wonder what 21 would be said of each of us today about working together. 22 Were we part of the team effort to solve the many problems 23 that face us today like we faced in the past? I hope and pray 24 that we can say yes. I sincerely hope that by explaining some 25 of our history, that you will understand that we do have a 9-15-06 31 1 history of tolerance and understanding, teamwork and respect 2 for each as an elected official. And I also want to commend 3 the Commissioners Court for appointing Diane Bolin, our 4 interim Tax Assessor/Collector. This was the right decision 5 for Kerr County. Thank you. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. 7 (Applause.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Hazelle Calcott? 9 MS. CALCOTE: That's Hazelle Calcote. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Cote, excuse me. 11 MS. CALCOTE: Yes, sir. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Give us your address. 13 MS. CALCOTE: Oh, you bet. I'm Hazelle Calcote, and 14 I live at 1701 Calcote Road. And it's in Kerr County, in case 15 anybody doesn't realize that. And when anybody -- 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Pull that mic down. 17 MS. CALCOTE: I'm kind of short on one end. If 18 anybody starts getting into my pocket -- and "my pocket" I 19 consider to be taxes that I have paid to the county and to the 20 state, the government, to whomever. When I say "my," that 21 means, broadly, everybody's taxes. So, consequently, you-all 22 all work for me, "me" being everybody in the county that pays 23 taxes or wherever. And that's why I am up here to complain 24 that I don't feel like I'm getting my money's worth in 25 somebody that does not know what responsibility means, 9-15-06 32 1 integrity means. To me, when you have -- I worked for savings 2 and loan for 26 and a half years and dealt with millions of 3 dollars. And such a responsibility which a Treasurer has -- 4 that's money, and comparing hitting a deer in a police car 5 would be like comparing oranges to apples, and you don't do 6 that. What you do is, you do your job as you were elected to 7 do it, in the manner that it should be done. 8 And I have written down some things that were not 9 done by -- according to the responsibilities of that office. 10 At least four times, paid employees' retirement funds were 11 late, incurring penalties and interest each time. That wasn't 12 accidentally. You hit a deer accidentally. You might 13 accidentally make one mistake. That's -- I'm pretty lenient; 14 I forgive once. Twice, I don't forgive. Which reminds me, I 15 can handle ignorance forever; stupidity I have zero tolerance 16 for. And numerous times, she failed to deliver either 17 correctly, late, incompetent, or not at all the proper I.R.S. 18 forms, and I always thought you don't mess with Uncle. I 19 don't care who you are or where you're from. And these forms 20 were resulting in levies being placed on county funds. Again, 21 that was my money. And if that's going to happen, I think 22 that she ought to give more than one check to the county fund, 23 and pay all the fees and all the penalties that she has caused 24 to be incurred against the county. Refund that to my account 25 for the county. 9-15-06 33 1 The I.R.S. simply does not make that many clerical 2 errors. Now, I'm sure nobody's perfect, and that includes 3 them. And she states that they make a lot of clerical errors. 4 Undoubtedly, she's never worked for the I.R.S. If so, the 5 problem should have been dealt with years ago, as someone has 6 already stated. A person with strong work ethics should have 7 never let the problem reach this level. And I'm going to go 8 back to say that whenever part of your duties are deducted 9 from what you have to do, your salary should certainly be 10 deducted also. And I like Buster's figure of 35,000, 11 provided -- I would also add a P.S. to that. I would go a 12 little further and say put her on a time clock. Punch in and 13 punch out, paid by the hour. I don't care how much you pay 14 her by the hour; that's all right, but I'll guarantee you, 15 you'll get more work out of her. She'll be there if you put 16 her on a time clock. So -- but deduct her salary, 'cause if 17 she doesn't have three-fourths of the workload, she doesn't 18 need to be paid for something she is not doing with my money. 19 Failed -- she failed to timely pay health insurance 20 premiums, and, boy, that's no fun to get penalties on top of 21 that. And, like September and October, and resulting in the 22 termination notice, which everybody read in the paper about 23 that being issued to Kerr County by the insurance provider. 24 And the human resource -- resource function of the Treasurer's 25 office will end effective the end of this month, and a new 9-15-06 34 1 department is being created, and we all understand that, and 2 that's fine. If that's needed, I'm all for that. Just pay 3 everybody -- I don't care who it is. If you get paid, do the 4 work. Be able to earn what you're paid. I don't care who you 5 are, from the president on down to the dogcatcher. If you're 6 being paid a salary, you earn it. And compensation for 7 performing a job in the real world is based on job duties, as 8 well as current and past performance of the employer, so -- 9 employee. I would like to ask for her removal. I understand 10 y'all can remove her. The public hired -- elected her, and 11 you all set her salary. And it looks like that the public 12 thought -- the majority thought that she would do her job. 13 But every time -- I don't take the paper, but I read it over 14 on the computer, and seems like at least once a week, I read 15 again about something that has turned up that's a boo-boo. 16 And I thank y'all for letting me spout off, but I hope do you 17 something positive. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. 19 MS. CALCOTE: Thank you. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there any other member -- any 21 person in the audience that -- we'll get to you momentarily. 22 If you'll come forward, sir? 23 MR. OEHLER: I'm Bruce Oehler; I live at 125 Oehler 24 Road, Precinct 4. The statements I have to make this morning 25 are not personal and they're not political. It's a statement 9-15-06 35 1 of fact and then an opinion about what I think may happen. 2 Elected officials have duties that are statutory and others 3 that are not statutory. When a person is reelected, they know 4 the duties of that office. Ms. Nemec chose to stop doing the 5 human resources part of her job. This was a major portion of 6 her responsibilities. Consequently, a new department was 7 formed to take care of the human resources function, along 8 with some other things that will cost taxpayers more than 9 they've been paying for this function to be done in the past. 10 This department head will make an amount similar to the 11 District Clerk, the County Clerk, and the Tax 12 Assessor/Collector. Those duties, in my opinion, aren't 13 nearly as responsible as the District Clerk and the County 14 Clerk and the Tax Assessor/Collector. In my opinion, if you 15 do not substantially reduce the salary of the County 16 Treasurer, you will set a precedent for future elected 17 officials and present elected officials to shirk 18 responsibilities that they now have. Thank you. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. I believe I had 20 someone over here -- yes, ma'am. Come forward and give us 21 your name and address. 22 MS. GEORGE: Thank you. My name is Jaye George. I 23 live at 708 Overhill Drive. My statement may not be exactly 24 where we need to be on your agenda, but as a private citizen 25 looking at people who are elected to do jobs, like each of you 9-15-06 36 1 and several people sitting in this courtroom, I have no idea 2 how you spend your time. I have no idea if you spend 10 hours 3 a day one day and zero hours the next doing your job. You're 4 elected to do that job. I have confidence, I hope -- it's 5 getting pretty weak nowadays -- that you're doing your job as 6 you were elected to do, and you're spending the time that you 7 need to spend. I suspect that what I could do in 10 hours 8 doing what I do, you probably couldn't do it in 20 hours, but 9 we could turn it around. Barbara Nemec does her job the way 10 she sees it. I've not followed her around. I have no idea if 11 she drinks coffee four hours on that time. But I have 12 confidence, as a person who votes, that we put people in 13 office to do their jobs. I hope you all are doing yours so we 14 can be proud of you, and I trust that Barbara is doing her job 15 so that we can be proud. I don't like being embarrassed by 16 what's going on in our town now. We have a fine town. I 17 think we look like idiots. I hope we get this over with. 18 Thank you. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. Yes, ma'am? 20 MS. DIXON: Good morning. I'm Ardith Dixon; I'm a 21 citizen and I live at 1509 East Jefferson Street in Kerrville. 22 I only have a brief statement to make. I'm embarrassed too 23 that this has been publicly in the papers as it has been. I 24 don't think it makes Kerrville look good, and -- and it makes 25 me wonder why we don't go internally first to solve some of -- 9-15-06 37 1 or to question some things before it comes full-blown in the 2 media. But the one thing which makes me wonder about having 3 -- going to a grievance committee, I -- I see that it might be 4 perceived by the Commissioners Court to pass the buck; that, 5 hey, we don't want to be the ones to say how much she's going 6 to make. Let's do that; that's off of us. And, you know, I 7 just think some people will perceive it that way. I would 8 hope that as you're representatives of our county, that you 9 can make a good, solid judgment. I personally don't believe 10 that Ms. Nemec's salary should be lowered. I think over the 11 many years that she has been in service and worked for this 12 county doing her duties, that she has earned the level of her 13 pay. So -- and also, it is like, I believe, Ms. George 14 mentioned, we don't question your hours. I mean, if you're 15 going to say, well, her pay should be same as the clerk, maybe 16 the clerk puts in four hours, but she gets her job done. 17 Barbara may put in 12. I don't think you can base it that 18 way. I think it has to be based on the job she does and needs 19 to do. So, with those things to consider, I thank you for 20 your time. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. Is there anyone -- 22 is there any other member of the audience that wishes to be 23 heard in regard to this? Yes, sir. Come forward and give us 24 your name and address, please. 25 MR. NEMEC: Ed Nemec, 122 West Lane. One thing that 9-15-06 38 1 hasn't been brought out, and I'm bothered by it a little bit; 2 it was mentioned in this morning's paper in an open letter to 3 the taxpayers of Kerr County about, my understanding, during 4 the budget workshop, the Treasurer had said that she would 5 continue doing the human resources job -- functions, and that 6 at that time she said it constituted, I think, about 30, 7 35 percent of her time, if the Court would provide the 8 necessary staff and resources, but the Court chose otherwise. 9 So, I want that in the record that she did offer to keep the 10 job if she was given the necessary staff. Thank you. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. There was someone 12 else out here trying to get my -- yes, ma'am. Come forward; 13 give us your name and address. 14 MS. MERRICK: My name is Billie Merrick. I live at 15 1506 Ranchero Road in Kerrville. I did not plan to speak, 16 except I have been doing some research -- 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Pull the mic to you just a little. 18 MS. MERRICK: Oh, okay. I have been doing some 19 researching with large, small, and medium-size counties, and 20 Kerr County seems to fall in the medium-size county 21 government. This morning I talked to someone in a small 22 government, and they had been reading the articles in the 23 newspaper, and they thought it was ludicrous to lower an 24 elected employee's salary that much, you know, if someone had 25 been elected at a higher salary, and that they would be 9-15-06 39 1 willing to pay her from 23,000 to 24,000 to do the payroll and 2 file her fingernails and listen to the Commissioners' bitching 3 only. But is it my understanding that you have taken the 4 human resources portion of her job for someone else to do, and 5 you will create another department? Is that what the 6 intention is? Has anyone done any research as to what it 7 costs to run -- so, if you decrease her salary, is that what 8 you would intend to do with -- would pay the human resource 9 person? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: I think you'll get -- in some 11 comments later, you'll probably get the answer to your 12 question. 13 MS. MERRICK: Okay. Well, the reason I was thinking 14 is just governments -- small governments, you know, medium 15 cap, from 250 to 499 employees, a human resource director, 16 there's a list of the things that they are required to do 17 here. They make starting 37.50 an hour up to 38.94 an hour, 18 which seems to be -- I don't know how you're going to find 19 somebody to do that in this size of county. That's average, 20 and that's in government. San Antonio, in small governments 21 in their portions, pay 41.37 an hour for human resource 22 directors, and that's in a small community like -- golly, 23 what's just right on this side of San -- Leon Springs, 24 whatever. So -- but I don't see how you -- you're lowering 25 hers, but you're going to cost you a lot more to separate it 9-15-06 40 1 and get you one if you want them to do all these duties that 2 it says is required of a human resource person. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. Is there anyone 4 else here in the audience that wishes to be heard? Yes, sir. 5 Come forward. 6 MR. CASTILLO: I'm Claudio Castillo. I live at 807 7 Laura Belle. And sometimes, when the Court says, "Can do you 8 this job?" we'll say, "Well, okay, what is it?" And you're -- 9 Commissioners are carrying the torch from the previous 10 Commissioners. And is that -- that's what happened with 11 Barbara previously. Can you handle this job? And was there a 12 $2,000 increase? Was there a $100 increase in her salary? 13 And like this young lady here said, an H.R. director is a -- 14 an executive director is going to have to be paid some good 15 money; you know, $50,000 or so. Is that -- $50,000, is that 16 the equivalent of bringing it down to $27,000, getting that 17 from 27 to whatever Barbara was making? Is that the $50,000? 18 Did Barbara get anything when she was handed the insurance and 19 handed the H.R.? I don't know if even I can handle it, or 20 tell you how much she got. I think we should know. I think 21 y'all should know. I think Tommy should know. Yet here we 22 are, going to bite her for not doing the job that she was 23 maybe not paid to do in the first place. I'm sick and tired 24 also of -- of fighting like this. We shouldn't be fighting. 25 We should be handling this thing directly. Buster, good 9-15-06 41 1 grief, I'm surprised at you saying things that you've been 2 saying in the newspaper. You know, I remember opening a can 3 of worms one time, and by golly, I finished that can of worms; 4 if it took me all day and it was cold, I got that. Wasn't a 5 big one, but I got a perch and it took all day to do it. I 6 did it, closed it up, went home with it. So, if you open up a 7 can of worms, finish it up. Don't throw it off on somebody 8 else. You got your hands dirty on it. Finish it up, and 9 let's do it right. What are you going to take away from her? 10 You never gave her anything in the first place except pick and 11 axe, and wail away at it. Thank you. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. Anyone else -- 13 anyone else that wishes to be heard? Yes, sir? 14 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Vance Elliott. Well, 1230 Lois 15 Street in Precinct 1, thank goodness. I just -- I really 16 don't have an opinion on what the salary should be set at. I 17 want to commend Judge Tinley for putting, as he is supposed to 18 do, a budget, and with recommended salaries to the 19 Commissioners Court. And he -- he didn't say we should 20 possibly lower or we should lower a little bit or we should do 21 this or do that. He showed leadership in his -- and provided 22 a figure, which he is supposed to do. And when you receive 23 that figure, then I feel that, as the Commissioners Court, it 24 is your responsibility to decide if that figure is adequate, 25 and if not, recommend, as you have done, with saying it should 9-15-06 42 1 be on parity with the Commissioners Court, a commissioner's 2 salary. I'm concerned that if it goes to grievance committee, 3 how the grievance committee would be set up. That issue, 4 again, would be all political, and people would say, "Oh, it's 5 motivated by who got put on and who was appointed by who." 6 Let's just show some leadership and resolve the issue right 7 here, as you're elected as Commissioners to do. Thank you. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. Anyone else? Anyone 9 else? Yes, ma'am? 10 MS. NEMEC: I'd like to clarify some comments that 11 were made earlier. One of the ladies said that there were 12 penalties on insurance, late payments. There were not any 13 penalties on any insurance payments that were late. Yes, 14 there were four late penalties on T.C.D.R.S. That was taken 15 care of today, at no cost to the taxpayers. In the paper, it 16 constantly states that the Treasurer failed to submit I.R.S. 17 paperwork on time as a result of Judge Tinley's agenda items. 18 That is false. And I want to again point out that I have told 19 this Court on several occasions during the budget workshops 20 that I would be glad to continue to perform those duties, 21 provided that I am given the staff and the resources to do so. 22 Thank you. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Anyone else? Any further 24 questions or comments from any member of the Court with regard 25 to the pending motion? 9-15-06 43 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do, Judge. I have -- I 2 want to comment about passing the buck. That was brought up 3 four times. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I didn't count. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The -- I did. That wasn't -- 6 that wasn't my issue at all. I'm very capable of voting, and 7 I do, hundreds and some -- maybe thousands of times a year on 8 issues that are more difficult than this, I can tell you, and 9 I don't have any problem with it. I was just trying to get it 10 out of the political arena and do the right thing for the 11 community. I have no problem. Let's vote. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other question or comments by 13 anybody on the Court? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the only comment I want 15 to make was -- two, and this goes into my decision on this. 16 And Ms. Nemec has today said she's willing to do these duties, 17 and she -- you know, I was aware of that. I think one other 18 person asked what we're doing with H.R. We're setting up an 19 H.R. department; it has been set up and the new director has 20 been hired. Over the last several years, it has become 21 apparent to me that this county, with its size, the complexity 22 of -- of laws, needs more expertise in that area of human 23 resources, and that's the reason I went forward. It wasn't 24 taking work away from Ms. Nemec; it wasn't anything like that. 25 I just truly believe that our insurance issues have gotten 9-15-06 44 1 more and more complex. Our H.R. overall have gotten more and 2 more complex, and I, quite frankly, think that you need a 3 professional to do that. And that's my decision for hiring -- 4 going with the H.R. department. It was not trying to take 5 work away from Ms. Nemec. The other option would have been to 6 do -- you know, budget consequences is to put an H.R. director 7 like we have hired under Ms. Nemec. Yes, that was an option, 8 but I -- from a dollar standpoint, you know, it's not going to 9 change anything that much in the county. So, I just wanted to 10 bring that up. It's not something against -- I think Pat Dye 11 really is who I brought this comment up to. She was 12 talking -- or Ms. Hilmers, I should say. I'm sorry. 13 MS. HILMERS: That's all right. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You know, things change over 15 time. We are a much different county than we were 5, 10, 15, 16 20 years ago. And that's why we need an H.R.; nothing to do 17 with Ms. Nemec's position, in my opinion. The other thing 18 that I also think is important and that weighs in on my 19 decision on this today is that she -- she is elected by the 20 people. That's why I have a real problem with a -- a real 21 large reduction in salary. Most of the things that we've been 22 discussing today, and off and on, were aware to the voters 23 when they reelected her. Maybe not quite as much as, you 24 know, have come out recently, but still, some of these things 25 were aware. And she was reelected by the citizens of Kerr 9-15-06 45 1 County, and that's -- that says something. So, I don't -- you 2 know, I don't think it's my position to make a big change in 3 salaries and things. I think that in -- from her prior 4 conversations with the Court, she thinks that a commissioner's 5 salary is a fair salary. She'd probably like to have more. 6 She's made the indication that -- that she would accept that 7 salary without going through the grievance process. I -- and 8 I don't know if she is going to accept it or not. That will 9 be her decision. But I think that there -- you know, I just 10 think the commissioner's salary is a more accurate salary 11 level than the other three that she previously had parity 12 with, based on responsibilities. And I think -- my final 13 point I do want to make is that several people have said that 14 because of her longstanding employment with Kerr County, both 15 as an employee and as an elected official, the salary should 16 be -- you know, should justify that. That's something I've 17 had to wrestle with many times. We have a very experienced 18 elected body in Kerr County right now. But when we hire a new 19 constable -- or we've just hired a new J.P. -- I shouldn't say 20 we hired; the employees -- the citizens elected a new J.P. 21 Well, should that new J.P. get paid less because she's new 22 than an existing J.P.? To me, no. The responsibilities are 23 basically by statute and by law. So, yes, it is great to have 24 experienced people in these positions, but I don't think it is 25 -- you necessarily need to pay based on that experience. I 9-15-06 46 1 don't think the Sheriff should get paid more this year than a 2 new Sheriff would sometime in the future. I think you have to 3 look at the position. People run for those jobs, and they 4 should be paid accordingly. That's it. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other question or comments by any 6 member of the Court? 7 MS. ARRELLANO: I have a question, sir. What are 8 you paying the H.R. director? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: The number is 52,500. That's what's 10 in the budget. 11 MS. ARRELLANO: Thank you. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other comments, questions from 13 members of the Court? All in favor of the motion -- let me 14 first clarify. The Auditor has verified the number as 15 $43,257. The motion, therefore, is that the salary for the 16 County Treasurer for Fiscal Year 2006-2007 be set at $43,257. 17 That's the motion. All in favor of the motion, signify by 18 raising your right hand. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Based upon 23 the -- based upon the communication which was received from 24 Ms. Nemec last week, I believe it was -- maybe earlier this 25 week; I'm not sure -- relative to the issue of elections for 9-15-06 47 1 salary grievance, does -- does the content of that letter 2 still hold, Ms. Nemec? 3 MS. NEMEC: Oh, no, I wish to withdraw that. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. So, Item 4 -- I'll go 5 ahead and call the item, and then let the members of the Court 6 do whatever they wish with it. Consider, discuss, and take 7 appropriate action to select type and method of constitutional 8 salary grievance committee and take appropriate action to name 9 and notify members of such committee and set date or dates for 10 any required meetings of the committee. Based upon 11 Ms. Nemec's communication earlier, and as confirmed here this 12 morning, I see no reason for the Court to take any time 13 constituting a grievance committee. We've had no other 14 notification from any other elected officials of a need for a 15 grievance committee, and -- that's my sense of it. Any member 16 of the Court have anything different? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm confused a little bit. I 18 thought that the letter from Ms. Nemec was that if she -- she 19 would file the grievance if we set it below the commissioner's 20 salary, and she's withdrawing that letter. Does that mean 21 you're filing the grievance? 22 MS. NEMEC: No, as long as my salary is what the 23 Commissioners are making, then I will not go to grievance. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: As just approved. 9-15-06 48 1 MS. NEMEC: Yes. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, I think it would be just 3 helpful, since there are a lot of people here, and Judge 4 Elliott brought it up as to how a grievance committee is 5 staffed, and then after that, I think we're pretty much done 6 for the day, in my opinion. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: The Local Government Code provides 8 that we have the ability to make an election of how the 9 grievance committee is constituted. One -- one election we 10 would have is for specified elected or county officials to be 11 on the grievance committee, that being the Sheriff, County Tax 12 Assessor/Collector, County Treasurer, County Clerk, District 13 Clerk, County Attorney, or Criminal District Attorney. And 14 the balance of the members of that committee would then be 15 public members and would be drawn from those persons who had 16 served on Grand Juries in this county during the previous 17 calendar year, I believe it is. The other option -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait just a second. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, sir? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, with that -- going that 21 route, yes, it could be political. It could remain political, 22 okay? Now, there's another way to do it. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: The second selection that we have, we 24 could elect to compose the committee of nine public members. 25 Those public members would be drawn in the same manner or 9-15-06 49 1 method, which our County Clerk was prepared to allow us to do. 2 She has obtained the names of all persons who served on the 3 Grand Jury -- Grand Juries in this county in calendar year 4 2005. She's got them all neatly cut up and in little strips 5 in an envelope, and we were ready to roll if need be. So, 6 that was the other selection method, or constitution method. 7 So -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And that one is not 9 political. 10 MS. HILMERS: It's been done both ways. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's been done both ways. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything -- anything else by any 13 member -- 14 JUDGE ELLIOTT: And y'all have shown leadership 15 today. Thank you. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, gosh. 17 MS. NEMEC: Commissioners, thank you very much. 18 Appreciate it. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you for straightening 20 out the I.R.S. matter. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Appreciate that. Anything further, 22 gentlemen? We'll stand adjourned. 23 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 11:17 a.m.) 24 - - - - - - - - - - 25 9-15-06 50 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my 5 capacity as County Clerk of the Commissioners Court 6 of Kerr County, Texas, at the time and place 7 heretofore set forth. 8 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 19th day of 9 September, 2006. 10 11 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 12 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 13 Certified Shorthand Reporter 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 9-15-06