1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Regular Session 10 Monday, November 13, 2006 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 DAVE NICHOLSON, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X November 13, 2006 2 PAGE --- Commissioners' Comments 5 3 1.1 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 4 Texas Yes! Grant & contract 11 5 1.2 Consideration/approval of EIC project to provide funding to Hill Country Shooting Center 13 6 1.3 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 7 2007 Employee Health Benefit Proposals 21 8 1.4 Open bids for electrical, plumbing, HVAC and pest control 40 9 1.5 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 10 Maintenance & Custodial Departments reorganization 41 11 1.9 Public Hearing for Revision of Plat for Lot 17A & 16, Cypress Spring Estates 58 12 1.8 Consider/discuss, adopt resolution authorizing 13 County to submit grant application for Phase IV of Kerrville South Wastewater Project 58 14 1.11 Public Hearing for Revision of Plat for Lots 43B & 15 46, Wood Trails Ranch 61 16 1.6 Consider/discuss, approve filling open full-time position in Maintenance Department 62 17 1.13 Public Hearing for road name changes and regulatory 18 signs in various locations 69 19 1.7 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action regarding IRS meeting in reference to 6-30-06 tax period 70 20 1.10 Consider/discuss/action for final revision of plat 21 for Lot 17A & 16, Cypress Spring Estates 100 22 1.12 Consider/discuss/action for final revision of plat for Lot 43B & 46, Wood Trails Ranch 101 23 1.14 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action for 24 road name changes and regulatory signs 102 25 1.15 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action for final plat of T-H Acres, Precinct 4 106 3 1 I N D E X November 13, 2006 2 PAGE 1.16 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action for 3 revision of Lots 5 & 6 of Cypress Springs, set public hearing, Precinct 4 106 4 1.17 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action for 5 revision of Lots 16 & 17 of Bear Creek Ranch Estates, set public hearing, Precinct 1 109 6 1.18 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 7 consider lease of two maintainers and one loader for Road & Bridge 113 8 1.19 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to set 9 public hearing for revision of plat for Lots 124B & 131A of Falling Water 118 10 1.20 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action regarding 11 application for grant from Peterson Foundation to purchase a new Live Scan Fingerprint system 119 12 1.21 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action regarding 13 approval of new telecommunications equipment lease with Windstream Communications 120 14 1.22 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to accept 15 resignation of Robert L. Weinberg from the Alamo Area Senior Advisory Committee 124 16 1.23 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to adopt 17 Resolution opposing revenue and appraisal caps and/ or unfunded mandates on Texas counties and cities 124 18 1.24 Consider/discuss, approve revised Subdivision Rules 19 and Regulations, set Public Hearing for same 130 20 1.25 Reports from the following Departments: Facilities and Maintenance --- 21 Information Technology 150 Road and Bridge 158 22 Collections 167 23 4.1 Pay Bills 169 4.2 Budget Amendments 173 24 4.3 Late Bills 178 4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 179 25 --- Adjourned 182 4 1 On Monday, November 13, 2006, at 9:00 a.m., a regular 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in the 3 Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville, 4 Texas, and the following proceedings were had in open court: 5 P R O C E E D I N G S 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. 7 Let me call to order this regularly scheduled meeting of the 8 Kerr County Commissioners Court scheduled and posted for this 9 time and date, Monday, November the 13th, 2006, at 9 a.m. 10 It's that time. If you would please rise and join me in a 11 moment of prayer, please. 12 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you very much. At this time, 14 if there's any member of the public or the audience who wishes 15 to be heard on any matter that is not a listed agenda item, 16 we'd ask that you come forward at this time and tell us what's 17 on your mind. We'll need for you to give your name and 18 address as you -- as you come forward. If you wish to be 19 heard on any agenda item, a listed or posted agenda item, we'd 20 ask that you fill out a participation form. They can be found 21 at the rear of the room. And it's not essential that you do 22 that, but it helps me to be aware that there's someone that 23 wants to speak on that item when we get there. If you haven't 24 filled out a participation form, and decide you want to have 25 input on an agenda item, when we get to that item, get my 11-13-06 5 1 attention in some manner and I'll give you the opportunity to 2 be heard. But at this time, if there's any member of the 3 audience or the public that wishes to be heard on any matter 4 that is not a listed agenda item, please feel free to come 5 forward at this time and tell us what's on your mind. Seeing 6 no one coming forward, we will move on. Commissioner Baldwin, 7 what do you have for us this morning? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, a couple of things. I 9 see my good friend Harold Smith from The Horizon subdivision 10 back there; that he and I have had several discussions regards 11 to the L.C.R.A. power line issue, and haven't always seen 12 eye-to-eye on it. And over the weekend, I had several phone 13 calls and e-mails asking the Commissioners Court to fire 14 another shot at a resolution for us to join the City Council 15 in requesting L.C.R.A. to bury all the lines. I want y'all to 16 put your thinking hats on and think about that in the next 17 week or so, and we'll -- if it looks or sounds palatable to 18 you, we may make another run at it. We've done so many 19 resolutions on this Court through the years that I've very 20 seldom seen us not be able to come out with one. But this is 21 one of those issues that just is just not -- there's not a 22 good answer for the thing. So, I think we ought to fire 23 another shot at this thing, and I'll -- I'm willing to stand 24 out there in front and take the heat for it. I guess that's 25 all. I started to get into football, but my feelings are so 11-13-06 6 1 hurt from the weekend, I just -- just don't have the heart to 2 talk about it. (Laughter.) Thank you. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Williams? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Judge. At the 5 last month's directors meeting of the Alamo Area Council of 6 Governments, one of the bits of information that was shared 7 with us that I think the Court and the public might find 8 interesting has to do with the population estimates from the 9 State Data Center for Kerr County. You'll recall that the 10 2000 census, our count for Kerr County was 43,653. As of 11 July 1, '05, the estimate -- population estimate was 46,846. 12 As of January 1, 2006, the population estimate for Kerr County 13 is now 47,265. That represents a six-year change of 14 8.3 percent. For those of you who don't think our county's 15 growing, if anybody exists that doesn't think our county's 16 growing, you better think again. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, sir. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. Commissioner Letz? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On L.C.R.A., I'll be glad to 21 work with Commissioner Baldwin in trying to come up with a 22 resolution that's palatable to myself. I have -- and I can 23 tell you right now, mine is that I like the criteria L.C.R.A. 24 is using. I think they need to consider underground. I mean, 25 you know, I have no problem with that; I just think that 11-13-06 7 1 there's -- the true -- all of the -- well, I'll just have to 2 say, I think underground needs to be evaluated, but L.C.R.A. 3 has an option, as they have other options, and I think that's 4 pretty much what the City and County have said, and I totally 5 agree with that. But I think that L.C.R.A. has to consider a 6 lot of other things, and so does the Public Utility 7 Commission. And the cost issue, I think, would come out, from 8 what information I have on the underground item. 9 The other item I have is, I'm not sure if everyone 10 is aware or not, but there were several very bad accidents on 11 Highway 27 recently. Two people were killed at Government 12 Crossing on Highway 27, and there was another serious 13 accident -- I don't know the details of it; it was in the city 14 limits, right at -- before you get to the airport just going 15 out of Kerrville, right on that corner right there, kind of 16 where the R.V. storage place is. I know they had Highway 27 17 closed for quite a while Saturday evening with that one. And 18 I will probably be getting with Commissioner Williams and 19 again work on a resolution firing off to TexDOT about 20 expediting their current plans to expand into -- most of that 21 highway into a four-lane road. Traffic is getting more and 22 more every day. A lot of heavy truck traffic is already on 23 there. I think the 10-year plan is to make a good part of 24 that a four-lane road, and I think these serious accidents 25 show it probably needs to be done sooner rather than later. 11-13-06 8 1 That's all I have. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Nicholson? 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Couple things, Judge. The 4 hunters and the snowbirds are back, and just about the time we 5 get settled down from the -- from the summer vacation and 6 children's camps, we get the hunters and snowbirds. And 7 that's a real economic blessing to Kerr County, particularly 8 west Kerr County. And we have to put up with a little bit 9 of -- of traffic and other stuff we don't like, but it's well 10 worth it. It's awfully dry out there. I hope the hunters 11 don't let their -- their campfires get out of control, 'cause 12 I think we're right back where we were about a month ago and 13 being on the verge of a really big problem for wildfire. 14 And, second, I want to talk just a second about 15 Animal Control. I usually talk about that at the end of our 16 sessions when I do my bragging on our terrific Animal Control 17 facility. Pat Ginsbach is a patron and benefactor of the 18 Animal Control facility, and he contributes more than money; 19 he contributes his time. Pat is out there a lot, and he's -- 20 he's made a difference in helping us move toward our goals 21 that we worked -- me and Commissioner Baldwin worked with the 22 manager out there several months ago. A real good letter to 23 the editor from Pat Ginsbach, and a good poem by one of our 24 employees out there, Charity Everett. If any of you missed 25 it, get a copy from me; it's really good. October 2005, we 11-13-06 9 1 adopted 13 animals out there. October 2006, we adopted 76. 2 It's -- we're really moving along, and that new facility is 3 part of it. When people are looking for an animal and they've 4 got an attractive and convenient and comfortable place to see 5 what we've got available, it makes a difference. More of them 6 go home with an animal because of our new facility than did 7 before. And Janie and her staff are working very, very hard 8 at it. They're on the telephone all day long trying to find 9 homes for these desirable animals, so keep an eye on them. 10 They're doing good work out there. That's all. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To piggy-back that a minute, I 12 went by the facility the other day, and that new addition is 13 fantastic. It is really, really nice. I think we owe another 14 thank you to the benefactor that donated the money to make 15 that possible. And not -- I see a city representative in the 16 back of the audience, so I'll just fire my -- my sidewalk shot 17 across the -- over to the city, that my father-in-law was 18 wondering why that sidewalk was there when I drove by, and I 19 explained. I just wanted to make the point, we're waiting for 20 the City to do an upgrade of sewer plant so they can extend 21 the sidewalk in front of the sewer plant as well. (Laughter.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: I think the -- the upgrade at the 23 sewer plant was part of this recent bond election. I think 24 they were -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 11-13-06 10 1 JUDGE TINLEY: -- going to do major renovation of 2 the headworks and lot of that other portion of the facility 3 out there. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- yeah. I would, you 5 know, just -- our renovation triggered a sidewalk being built 6 at a cost of about $8,000 to the taxpayers or benefactors, 7 either way. I think the City should, and hopefully will, do 8 the same. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There's something -- 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Follow their own rules. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- something going on out 12 there right now. There's a huge crane out there. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maybe they're building a 14 sidewalk. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Maybe they are. Pre-formed. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: With rebar, 12 inch on 17 center. Better sidewalk than my driveway. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm sorry, Mindy. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: As all of you in the audience know, 20 we had the Veterans Day holiday over the weekend, and I was 21 privileged to attend a couple of those events, those 22 ceremonies. We had one here at the courthouse on Friday 23 morning. I -- I was encouraged by the expression and show of 24 patriotism and love of country which I saw at those events; 25 however, I was discouraged about who I saw at those events. 11-13-06 11 1 We need to make an effort to get more of our younger people 2 involved in these events, and a recognition of our veterans. 3 Our veterans of the greatest generation and conflicts after 4 World War II are slowly slipping away from us, and so we need 5 to get our younger people involved. They are the ones who are 6 carrying the ball right now. You look over in the Middle 7 East, and you see youngsters over there 18, 19, 20 years old, 8 and they're the ones that are carrying the ball. And, surely, 9 when we get those people back, they'll be involved, but until 10 that occurs, we need the folks in that age group that are here 11 on the home front to participate in those events. So, what I 12 would ask each of you is, as we have those events, if you 13 would, in addition to participating yourself, try and get 14 these younger people involved. Let's move on with our agenda. 15 The first item is consider, discuss, and take appropriate 16 action on the Texas Yes! grant and contract. Mr. Miller? 17 MR. MILLER: Good morning, Judge and Commissioners. 18 I think I've got enough of these here. 19 (Discussion off the record.) 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thank you. 21 MR. MILLER: Morning. I'm Bob Miller; I'm executive 22 director of the Texas Arts and Crafts Education Foundation. 23 We've been developing River Star Events Park for the past 24 three, three and a half years now. In front of you this 25 morning is some pictures of the park, improvements we've made 11-13-06 12 1 over the last year. I kind of wanted to bring you all up to 2 date on that also. The grant request that we are asking you 3 for agreement on today really is the same -- exact same grant 4 that we requested last year. You made us agents for the 5 County where we carry out all the paperwork, all the 6 submission -- do all the submissions for the grant. And it is 7 a grant for rural tourism to attract tourists to the rural 8 counties in Texas, and Kerr County still counts under that. 9 And this is the last year of the program, I believe. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If I remember correctly, you 11 use this for advertising purposes? 12 MR. MILLER: Marketing/advertising, yes. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And you agreed to be the 14 responsible party and take the County Auditor off the hook, 15 but make sure he's in good shape? 16 MR. MILLER: We give him copies of everything we 17 submit to the Department of Agriculture. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval of the -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- grant. 21 MR. MILLER: It's a reimbursement-type grant. 22 There's no money issued up front. We have to submit the 23 support, then they send us a check, which limits the risk from 24 anybody. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion. Do I have a 11-13-06 13 1 second? I have a motion and second, all right, for approval 2 of the application as proposed. Any question or discussion on 3 the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 4 your right hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Thank you, 9 Mr. Miller. 10 MR. MILLER: Thank you very much. Appreciate it. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move to Item 2; consideration 12 and approval of the City of Kerrville Economic Improvement 13 Corporation's project to provide funding to the Hill Country 14 Shooting Center located adjacent to Cypress Creek Road. 15 That's State Farm-to-Market 1341 here in Kerr County. 16 Ms. Wendele? 17 MS. WENDELE: Judge, Commissioners, my name is Mindy 18 Wendele. I'm Director of Business Programs for the City of 19 Kerrville, and this is the second time I've had the 20 opportunity to come to you to ask permission to spend money in 21 Kerr County. By law, according to the Development Corporation 22 Act of 1979, we -- the City of Kerrville is a 4B -- Section 4B 23 Economic Impact -- Economic Improvement Corporation collecting 24 half-cent sales tax. Anytime that we want to spend that money 25 outside of our jurisdiction, we have to ask the jurisdiction 11-13-06 14 1 where the money is to be spent permission. So, I stand before 2 you to ask that permission to spend the half-cent sales tax, 3 4B money on the Hill Country Shooting Sports Center located 4 where the Judge has indicated. The Economic Improvement 5 Corporation met and approved this funding agreement on October 6 the 31st; asking permission for you to approve its expenditure 7 in the county today. And the funding agreement will go to the 8 City Council as a part of state law also tomorrow evening for 9 their City Council meeting. This is for an Olympic style air 10 hall that Mr. Birch is starting construction on as we speak. 11 Scheduled to be completed by June 30 next year. I'll be happy 12 to entertain any questions. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move to approve. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and second for 16 approval of the agenda item and approval of the project. Any 17 question or discussion on the motion? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, sir? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably more to our County 21 Attorney. I'm sure you've received a -- correspondence from 22 the law firm about one of the neighbors that is alleging some 23 Clean Water Act violations, and talks about filing a lawsuit. 24 Is there any risk to the County if those allegations are 25 correct, and we're supporting funding at that facility? 11-13-06 15 1 MR. EMERSON: Not that I'm aware of. And I really 2 don't have any information on the alleged lawsuit. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you think -- 4 MR. EMERSON: If you approve the City's funding -- 5 or the Economic Improvement Corporation's funding, I'm not 6 sure that gives you any liability. I don't see the connection 7 there. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. I was just -- you didn't 9 get a copy? I mean, I know that all members of the Court 10 received a letter from the law firm about it. I think the 11 City -- I know the City received it as well. 12 MR. EMERSON: Kathy Mitchell brought me a copy this 13 morning, but I haven't had time to read it. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And another question I have is 15 the -- and I think everyone knows I've had -- I receive a lot 16 of complaints about this facility because it's in my precinct. 17 And I also see a lot of good that comes from the facility, so 18 I kind of probably watch it a little bit closer than the rest 19 of the Court. Is this facility set up as a nonprofit? 20 MS. WENDELE: That's correct. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Does it get the funding because 22 it's a nonprofit or because it's a business? Is that any -- 23 MS. WENDELE: That's a great question. The -- not 24 to speak for the -- individually for the members of the 25 Economic Improvement Corporation; however, they were provided 11-13-06 16 1 from staff an economic impact study, and that's -- that is the 2 basis of their decision. Not because it's a nonprofit, but 3 because it is an economic boon to our community. And we -- we 4 provided them with an economic impact analysis on 5 their booked -- already booked and future bookings with their 6 contract with the U.S.A. Shooting, and based on that, those 7 numbers, that's what they determined. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The actual facility under this 9 is a -- is an air hall? 10 MS. WENDELE: Yes, sir. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess I'm -- can you explain 12 that, what it is? 13 MS. WENDELE: If Mr. Burch was here, he could do a 14 much better job than I, but I will attempt. He is in -- he's 15 in Colorado Springs right now, training. The air hall is 16 approximately a 30,000 to 31,000 square feet open hall with -- 17 with sectioned areas, so it can be used not only for Olympic 18 sports, but for community activities also. There will be 19 equipment in there for -- for what it sounds like, air 20 shooting, air hall. Air shooting, so it's not like that -- 21 possibly that the concern might be coming from some of these 22 -- some of the neighbors out there as far as an environmental 23 situation, because it's -- this is all enclosed. And it will 24 take him from now until June 30 to get this thing done. He's 25 already gotten -- he already has several -- he and Sudie 11-13-06 17 1 Burditt already have several shooting events scheduled for '08 2 for that -- you know, for that building. So, it's totally 3 enclosed, I think is -- does that answer your question? With 4 the equipment inside. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Part of it. Is this -- also, 6 maybe someone on the Court may know the answer to this better. 7 Is this, I guess, a replacement to what is done, or used to be 8 done in the ag building? I mean -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It serves as that -- it does 11 that as well? As a -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, it's a BB gun place. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or pellet gun. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Pellet guns and things like 15 that. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it -- that's the other -- 17 you know, we've been looking for an alternative place to do 18 that for some time, and this will fill that need as well. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: A 4-H type function as well. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I like this kind of 24 project, Mindy, better than some of the others, because this 25 one clearly brings revenues and jobs. 11-13-06 18 1 MS. WENDELE: Yes, sir. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Or this facility; I'm not 3 sure about this. That's what economic development's all 4 about. 5 MS. WENDELE: Yes, sir. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or discussion on 8 the motion? The economic impact analysis, do you have, for 9 the benefit of those who are here, for example, the projected 10 impact in 2008 with that facility? 11 MS. WENDELE: Judge, I do not have that information 12 as far as the -- the economic impact that the groups will 13 bring. The study that was presented to the Economic 14 Improvement Corporation board members was based on some -- on 15 retail sales, total retail sales, total taxes collected, and 16 total -- anything that was direct. We have to divide these -- 17 these economic impacts into direct and indirect, and so we 18 were basing it on a direct. And anything that -- anything 19 that -- for example, retail sales, hotel nights and so forth, 20 that would be direct. Anything that they do -- they purchase 21 and so forth other than that would be indirect. I did not 22 bring that. I'll be more than happy to get a copy of that to 23 the -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sudie's here. She'll have 25 it. 11-13-06 19 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you -- Sudie, do you have those 2 numbers? 3 MS. BURDITT: Actually, for the year -- I'm sorry. 4 Sudie Burditt, Director of Kerrville Convention and Visitors 5 Bureau. You're asking for the year 2008, and I -- 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Whatever information you've got. 7 MS. BURDITT: -- and I do not have the 2008. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I want those folks to know the 9 economic impact that that facility has out there. For 10 example, we had this shoot this last May. 11 MS. BURDITT: Right. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: One shoot. What was the economic 13 impact of that shoot? Do you recall? 14 MS. BURDITT: About $2.1 million. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: That's direct? 16 MS. BURDITT: That's direct. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 18 MS. BURDITT: On those 10 days of those 58 countries 19 being here. Now, the seven-year contract of the original 20 events, which we have expanded numerous times now, but of the 21 seven-year contract with U.S.A. Shooting and the U.S. 22 Olympics, that direct was 41.5 million for those particular 23 events. But, I'm sorry, I don't have the 2008 figures busted 24 out. We now have additional events because of this facility, 25 the air rifle and air pistol facilities. We now have the 11-13-06 20 1 N.R.A. collegiate event for 2008 will be here in the summer -- 2 July of 2008, so now we have expanded beyond the U.S.A. 3 Shooting, U.S. Olympic events in relationship to the air hall. 4 It will -- it will bring us many other events. We have a 5 Daisy BB event also starting immediately after the 4th of July 6 in 2008. And we have the -- Terry? National Guard -- 7 MR. KENNEY: The U.S.A. National Championship. 8 MS. BURDITT: U.S.A. National Championship also 9 booked. So, there are a number of -- we have expanded beyond 10 the U.S.A. shooting events. Does that answer your question? 11 Sorry I don't have 2008 on the tip of my tongue. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 13 MS. BURDITT: I actually haven't broken out '08 by 14 itself. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Bottom line is, it is a tremendous 16 economic generator -- 17 MS. BURDITT: Bottom line, tremendous. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: -- in this area. 19 MS. BURDITT: Right. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One more question, if I could, 21 Judge. The -- the other -- there were some permitting issues, 22 with T.C.E.Q. primarily, previously about not being done 23 properly, and have those all been rectified? 24 MS. WENDELE: Yes, sir. 25 MS. BURDITT: Actually, Terry has their latest 11-13-06 21 1 letter with him that says all's clear, don't you? 2 MR. KENNEY: Yeah. 3 MS. BURDITT: The latest letter from T.C.E.Q.? 4 MR. KENNEY: Yeah. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other question or comments on the 6 motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your 7 right hand. 8 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. That motion 10 does carry. Thank you. 11 MS. WENDELE: Thank you, Judge. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move to Item 3; consider, 13 discuss, and take appropriate action on the 2007 employee 14 health benefits proposal. Mr. Looney. Good morning, sir. 15 MR. LOONEY: Morning, Judge. Morning, 16 Commissioners. I have a -- that doesn't work, does it? I 17 have a file out in the car that I can go get real quick, and 18 it's the necessary information to give you my two-hour version 19 on the renewal. I've got another file over here, which is my 20 45-minute presentation, or I can give you the one you've got 21 in front of you, which is about 12 minutes. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I like this one so far. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Start with 12 and see where 24 that takes us. 25 MR. LOONEY: Do the 12 minutes, and we'll see where 11-13-06 22 1 we go from there. As usual this time of the year, we've gone 2 out -- went out for bids. We had information from 15 3 different companies that requested additional information to 4 quote on the -- on the plan. When everything was said and 5 done, we had three offers that were complete offers. 6 Actually, we had two, one that was almost complete, and then 7 the renewal from Mutual of Omaha. The -- after going through 8 all of the information, and the spreadsheets are in there, the 9 information shows us that Mutual of Omaha is still competitive 10 with their rates. We also went back and looked and asked for 11 any complaints. We went through the complaint registers and 12 the phone registers that Mutual of Omaha provides for me. We 13 went through the H.R.A. administration process, which we 14 turned over and changed this last year to another 15 administrator. And we're having -- we didn't find any major 16 administrative glitches or errors or anything else at that 17 point. Didn't have any complaints I've been given, as far as 18 employee complaints. Other than the standard that everything 19 costs too much and -- and that process. 20 Based on the information we received in the renewal, 21 there was one -- on the spreadsheet, there was one quotation 22 by United Health Care, but it was the one that was not totally 23 complete. They bid on a 12-15 contract -- I mean a 12-12 24 contract instead of the 12-15 contract that we requested. If 25 we add back in the additional liability that would be required 11-13-06 23 1 to meet the requirements of our RFP, that it would cause their 2 costs to be in excess of what Mutual of Omaha's costs are. 3 There was another quotation that was provided by Finserve, 4 which has lower numbers on the front end side of it by -- by a 5 few percentage points. But after reading the request for -- 6 answers to the requests for proposal, there were two items 7 that they requested that -- that we cannot allow. One is that 8 they retain the right to change the rates after the beginning 9 of the year based on full experience through the end of the 10 year. That required us to sign a waiver document that stated 11 that the rates did not have to be held firm after the 12 presentation, and they also requested the attending physician 13 statements on four different employees. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What company is that you're 15 speaking of? 16 MR. LOONEY: Finserve. So, that was -- even though 17 those numbers look a little lower going in on the front end, 18 by the time we back in and come out the back end, it could 19 significantly be greater, or we could end up with employees 20 that were lasered or had higher deductibles. And rather than 21 face that potential, Mutual of Omaha has no lasers. They 22 cover everybody at the same basic deductible moving forward 23 into the next year, which makes that a much more preferable 24 benefit to the County. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: The Finserve option or requirement to 11-13-06 24 1 obtain physicians' statements would give them the option to 2 laser employees if they met certain criteria? 3 MR. LOONEY: Well, they wouldn't laser it until they 4 got full information through end of the plan year, plus the 5 attending physician statements on the other people, so we 6 wouldn't know what the rate was going to be until probably 7 January or February of next year. January, probably, of next 8 year. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: So, it could result in two 10 possibilities; one, substantial increase in rates, lasering, 11 or both? 12 MR. LOONEY: Or both. Could be any one of the 13 three. There are -- you know, so based on -- based on what 14 you see in the representation from the proposals and the 15 competitive rate structure, we had some 12 companies that -- 16 that were given the information and came back and said that 17 they were either not competitive with -- most said either not 18 competitive, or we don't have the type of -- of 19 physician/hospital network in your area which would benefit 20 the county. So, they didn't have the P.P.O. networks that 21 were in the county that would help. So, they came back and -- 22 and we got those responses from the majority of -- well, from 23 13 different companies -- 12 different companies, and they all 24 provided the same -- basically the same information, and had a 25 total of about five weeks to review it, so we're not going 11-13-06 25 1 to -- we don't want to hear anybody that says, hey, we didn't 2 get sufficient time or didn't get sufficient information of 3 that process. 4 I have had an opportunity to visit with Mrs. Hyde, 5 and I suspect by -- you know, sometime in the future, she may 6 have a piece of my hide on the wall in there. But the -- you 7 know, the relationship -- the relationship, I think, is going 8 to be very positive moving forward. We had a very good visit. 9 We've set up some calendar events for moving forward, as far 10 as some different reporting. I see reports on a monthly 11 basis, and I review those and accumulate those reports, and so 12 we're going to be funneling some of those reports back to Mrs. 13 Hyde now on a regular basis so she'll have a chance to review 14 those. The only -- there's three concerns that I've got that 15 I think we need to be aware of. One is that in your packet, 16 I've given you kind of a summary from the Government 17 Accounting Standards Board, or GASB Rulings 43 and 45. 18 Government Accounting Standards Board has determined 19 that counties and cities are going to have to determine what 20 their liability is for all benefit plans for any retirees, any 21 type of benefit that you offer to a retiree moving forward. 22 In the past, we've always had the GASB rulings on a pension 23 and profit-sharing plan, where you had to develop the 24 liability for any retiree benefits based on the actual 25 liability generated from a pension plan or profit-sharing 11-13-06 26 1 plan. That's pretty standard. Now they've come out and said, 2 gentlemen, not only do you have to report on those elements, 3 now have you to report on any welfare benefit plan provided to 4 an employee moving forward. We checked with GASB and found 5 out that not only is that the contributions from the County 6 that needs to be calculated into this, but even a plan that's 7 offered to a retiree, whether you contribute or not. So, 8 there has to be a report generated. It's supposed to be an 9 actuarial report, which means that we have to hire an outside 10 actuary to come in and actually do the reporting. The report 11 itself for -- for Kerr County is going to include information 12 concerning any kind of premium liability that's projected 13 moving forward for any type of retiree benefit offered. So, 14 it may end up to be zero, but the report needs to be 15 generated. 16 The concern we have going forward is, if there is a 17 liability generated, is it required to be funded? At that -- 18 funding of that liability becomes a significant question. And 19 the pension area, yes, you're required to report that funding 20 liability as a budgetary item. And there's some question 21 right now as to whether or not we have to show the liability 22 for retirees in the medical plan as a budgetary item, so that 23 is something that we need to address, and need to address that 24 based on your direction, either through the County Auditor's 25 office or do an RFQ for an actuary to do the report. 11-13-06 27 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You can go either way? 2 MR. LOONEY: Either way. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Auditor can do it, or -- 4 MR. LOONEY: But the Auditor can do it on his own 5 account, as far as hiring service to be done. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 7 MR. LOONEY: But the County Auditor is not supposed 8 to be the one that generates the report. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll direct a question after 11 you're done. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: I've already had the information 13 with an actuary firm -- 14 MR. LOONEY: Okay. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: -- on this issue. And -- and Kerr 16 County's not -- will hit the -- the benchmark. 17 MR. LOONEY: The threshold? 18 MR. TOMLINSON: Threshold for next year, for 19 '06-'07. 20 MR. LOONEY: In the past, we haven't been concerned 21 about it, because there's -- the limit of the -- the threshold 22 we're discussing is the budgetary limits -- no, it's the -- 23 MR. TOMLINSON: Total assets. 24 MR. LOONEY: -- total assets. Before you have to 25 make those reports on your financial statements. And you will 11-13-06 28 1 get there in this next year. So, apparently we've already got 2 a lot of that taken care of. So, my concerns are -- again, we 3 addressed those. And the other circumstance that we've 4 discussed in the past, and I believe Mr. Nicholson has brought 5 it up on a couple of occasions, is what about an employee who 6 has health insurance coverage through some other source or 7 some other resource? Do we allow them to waive or waiver out 8 of the plan? We're getting more and more information and more 9 and more requests for that type of proposal. We can allow 10 that to occur. We can allow an employee to waive out of the 11 plan, but I suggest that they have to meet certain criteria 12 before they do that. One is that they show proof of coverage 13 from some other resource; a permanent form of coverage, not a 14 temporary policy. Not a, you know, 30-day contract, but 15 something that shows that they have coverage elsewhere. And 16 then, if they have coverage elsewhere on a permanent basis, 17 allow them to waive that participation. 18 The waiver of the participation releases the County 19 from the obligations of the fixed cost that you have for the 20 medical plan going forward. The fixed cost this year is 21 approximately $105 per month, per employee. If you wish to 22 credit that to the person who had waived out of participation, 23 we can generate that type of -- of contractual agreement with 24 Mutual of Omaha and through the personnel rules that allow 25 that to occur. And my recommendation also is for that 11-13-06 29 1 contribution to be placed in a flexible spendable account for 2 an employee, or at your option, under the cafeteria plan, so 3 that those funds are placed into an obligatory account so that 4 the employee then has to use those funds in some manner for 5 insurance or health care reimbursement process, so that the 6 funds are still being used for the purpose -- still being used 7 for the health care or premium payment process under the 8 cafeteria plan. That also limits your liability moving 9 forward, because under the cafeteria plan, in the year in 10 which it's granted, if it's not used during that year, then 11 you lose it. So, then it becomes a single one-year budgetary 12 item that goes into the budget for that purpose. And I 13 believe if we meet those criterion, that that will allow 14 employees that -- and particularly where you have a number of 15 retired military that are in the area currently. So, I think 16 that is something that I would recommend, as long as they meet 17 that criteria. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How do we go about doing that? 19 MR. LOONEY: It's a -- it's a documentary personnel 20 rule type change. You say, "Okay, as a county, this is what 21 we're going to do under personnel rules, and the personnel 22 rules are based on this, making you eligible under these 23 guidelines." And then we take those personnel rules and we 24 give them to Mutual of Omaha and say, "Administer it in this 25 manner." 11-13-06 30 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, at some point, Ms. Hyde 2 would bring it to the Court for us to approve the concept, 3 or -- 4 MR. LOONEY: We discussed it briefly in our meeting, 5 but we didn't have the specific -- we didn't outline the 6 specifics. But part of the personnel rules -- we discussed 7 the personnel rules, the impact that it has on the insurance 8 side of the -- of the personnel functions. And so they -- 9 yes, we will bring that to the Court. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. So, the other general 11 question I have is, last year, the savings accounts were not 12 being utilized by the employees to a large extent. Has that 13 changed, or are they still not being utilized a great deal? 14 MR. LOONEY: We -- we budgeted -- we budget about 15 $200,000 a year liability into those accounts. To this 16 point -- this point in the year, we've spent about 160,000 of 17 that 200,000. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, it's being used. 19 MR. LOONEY: So it is being used. What we're seeing 20 now is that accumulation that was not used for a couple of 21 years, all of a sudden, the entire amount's used this year, so 22 it's -- it's doing what it's supposed to do. It's reimbursing 23 for those deductibles on -- for the individuals that did not 24 have losses or didn't file them, now that they've filed them, 25 now they're being reimbursed for them. 11-13-06 31 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Gary, on that issue, the 2 savings account issue, when we started that program two years 3 ago or so, there was a -- we talked about a national trend 4 moving in that direction. 5 MR. LOONEY: Right. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Even heard President Bush 7 talking about it numerous times. Is that still so? Is the 8 trend still moving in a savings account -- 9 MR. LOONEY: Very much so. What's happened -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- direction? 11 MR. LOONEY: What's happened is that the insurance 12 industry as a whole did not approach the sale or marketing of 13 that product in a very expedient manner. They took their time 14 developing programs. One of the things they did was they went 15 out and bought banks, they went out and bought credit card 16 companies, they went out and bought all of the other -- and 17 brought into their organizations all of the things that make 18 that work. And now they're marketing the product as a 19 package, whereas two years ago, the major insurance companies 20 were not marketing. They were not offering it as a package 21 marketing deal. So, now we're seeing it as a -- as multiple 22 options most often. We're not seeing the health savings 23 accounts as much as the health reimbursement arrangements. 24 The health reimbursement arrangement is a corporately managed 25 process, where the health savings account is an individually 11-13-06 32 1 managed process. So, we're really seeing a lot more activity 2 now. 3 The other area -- one of the other areas I wanted to 4 mention to you, too, is -- and I think we need very much to 5 look at the wellness incentive. We're at the point now where 6 I've got enough information or data to see where we are as far 7 as moving forward and projecting -- back in August, I believe, 8 I projected the numbers for this year. And if you see where 9 we came out, where the actual numbers are coming out is, 10 they're within about a half a point. So, we're -- data is now 11 getting to the point where we can project and generate what 12 our losses are going to be. The one thing that's going to 13 impact that is a healthier workforce. So, we're seeing a lot 14 more incentives now in the development of wellness and 15 wellness incentives. Mutual of Omaha has contracted with a 16 company called My I.Q. -- I think -- no, it's -- 17 MR. TOMLINSON: Health I.Q. 18 MS. HYDE: Health I.Q. 19 MR. LOONEY: Health I.Q. My I.Q. wouldn't register 20 very good this morning, I'm afraid. But the -- the Health 21 I.Q. And that is another item we're going to bring to the 22 Court. Ms. Hyde and I have not had a chance to fully examine 23 how it functions or works at this point, but she's had 24 experience with that in the past, specifically that -- I 25 believe specifically that organization. 11-13-06 33 1 MS. HYDE: Right. 2 MR. LOONEY: So, we're looking forward to bringing 3 that back to the Court and -- and developing a -- what it does 4 is it develops a database for each employee based on a current 5 health care examination that's provided to that individual 6 on-site by a certified technician. They do a baseline summary 7 of the person's height, weight, all the blood work, things of 8 that sort to develop a baseline. It's not anything other than 9 developing that baseline, then giving us an indication of 10 where we are status health-wise. The last one that we -- that 11 we did actually was -- was in Cameron County, and Cameron 12 County completed theirs, I believe, in August or September. 13 And employees are not required to do it; it's something that's 14 provided for them, paid for through the claim function. They 15 had a number of employees that didn't participate in that. 16 One of them happened to be a county commissioner, and the 17 county commissioner deceased. He had a -- I believe he had a 18 heart attack, and so it would have been very good to have been 19 able to assess him early if he had participated. So, we want 20 everybody to participate, including commissioners. So -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Gary, how far are we away 22 from the ability to offer health -- health club memberships, 23 some kind of incentive? If I lose my 25-pound goal, there's 24 some kind of reward for me, those kinds of things? 25 MR. LOONEY: All of that -- that type of 11-13-06 34 1 functionality is actually, again, back to the personnel rules. 2 You all can establish whatever rules and formatting you want 3 to establish, as far as giving credit to an employee, either 4 through a premium allocation or some sort of bonus incentive 5 through a local health care organization. A lot of that is 6 based on just your personnel rule function moving forward in 7 the community. You can establish that in any manner you want. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Isn't that really what 9 wellness -- a wellness program is about? 10 MR. LOONEY: Well, unfortunately, if it's voluntary, 11 what happens is that we have those people that are currently 12 doing the programs enter into -- that are currently paying for 13 them, and that they enter into them not having to pay for 14 them. The people that we want to get into the programs are 15 the ones that know they've got a problem, but are really 16 concerned about how they're going to do something about it. 17 And that's the challenge of wellness, is -- of a voluntary 18 versus mandatory type of program. I can go and put pamphlets 19 everywhere, tell everybody, you know, all kinds of wonderful 20 things about getting into a health care center, but if they 21 have to turn sideways to get through the door, there's a good 22 chance they're not going to go and do it. So, those are the 23 -- you know, those are the people we want in the program. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Can you give us any 25 estimate of what -- if we adapted -- adopted a wellness 11-13-06 35 1 program, what it would cost? 2 MR. LOONEY: The cost? It -- the cost from a claims 3 standpoint, it comes in as a claim. And the wellness cost is 4 approximately $100 per employee per year, and it actually 5 shows up as a claim, so it's not an excess cost. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Do you have any data that 7 would show that comparable populations of those that have 8 wellness programs, health costs are lower than those that do 9 not? 10 MR. LOONEY: On the mandatory basis, yes. We're 11 developing -- but mandatory health care wellness programs have 12 only been allowed in about the last two, three years as -- as 13 a result of the HIPAA regulations. HIPAA regulations did not 14 allow us to put in a wellness program that was mandatory with 15 penalties or gains or losses either way, which we can do. But 16 making a mandatory wellness program now is available under -- 17 because of the HIPAA regulations. So, we've got about, two, 18 two and a half years of data. The data -- actually, the 19 majority of the data that we've got comes out of South Africa, 20 because South Africa has had wellness programs in place for 21 12, 15 years, and the data that was coming out of there shows 22 us that mandatory wellness programs can generate anywhere from 23 8 to 12 percent savings in claim costs. And for us, we're 24 talking about right at a million -- let's see, a million, 25 eight, so 10, 12 percent can generate a couple of hundred 11-13-06 36 1 thousand dollars in savings. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I want Mutual of Omaha to pay 3 my health club membership dues. 4 MR. LOONEY: That's fine. You're a self-insured 5 plan, Commissioner Baldwin, and that will show up as a claim 6 and be -- be subtracted from your H.R.A. account. How's that? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thanks a lot. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can they also put a gun to 9 your head to make you go? (Laughter.) Gary, did I understand 10 you correctly that the aggregate contract bid by Mutual was 11 not a 15-12? 12 MR. LOONEY: No, it is. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It is. That's what I -- 14 MR. LOONEY: Yes, it is. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The United Health Care was not. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, you had three bids plus 17 Mutual of Omaha? 18 MR. LOONEY: Correct. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's up from last year. 20 MR. LOONEY: Yes, it is. We still have -- at this 21 point in time, we've got right at five ongoing medical claims 22 that we expect to exceed the $50,000 deductible. This last 23 year, we -- to date, we've received a hundred and -- about 24 right at $150,000 reimbursement on our specific insurance 25 program, and our premium for that, I believe, is right at 11-13-06 37 1 200,000 total. So, I'd have to go back and look to be sure, 2 but by the end of the year, we expect to receive 3 reimbursements in excess of $200,000. Those are bills that 4 have already been received that just have not been paid at 5 this date. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The action needed today is that 7 we approve or accept the proposal from Mutual of Omaha, and 8 then direct our H.R. Department and you to proceed with -- 9 MR. LOONEY: Correct. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- analyzing the plan? 11 MR. LOONEY: Yes. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That was my motion. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and a second as 15 indicated. Commissioner, does that permit the development of 16 the personnel rules for the opting out procedure that -- that 17 was indicated? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that's a different 19 issue, as I understood it. I mean, I think -- I think, yes, I 20 want that done, but I don't remember -- didn't know that it 21 had to be on this. I think they need to bring that back to 22 the Court for us to look -- 23 MR. LOONEY: Bring it back for approval. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: As well as the health. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: My concern is, if -- if we accept the 11-13-06 38 1 plan as it is specified now, do we have the option to plug 2 that in before the first of the year? 3 MR. LOONEY: Oh, sure. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: The opt-out? 5 MR. LOONEY: All we're -- all you're doing now is 6 approving Mutual as the administrator and the insurer. The 7 rest of it are personnel policy and rules. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: However, this does not 10 include the Mutual of Omaha Health I.Q. program? 11 MR. LOONEY: It's an option. It's an option. It's 12 not something that's automatically required or included in 13 this plan. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: An option that requires 15 additional funding? 16 MR. LOONEY: No, it's part of the claim function. 17 It becomes -- it is paid as a claim. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 19 MR. LOONEY: And that is just a matter of coming 20 back to the Court and say, okay, do you want to do it? The 21 obligation from the claims standpoint is the same as paying 22 for it. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Got you. 24 MR. LOONEY: If you're self-insured. But then it's 25 the time as to when we put that -- and it can be put in 11-13-06 39 1 anytime during the year. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think my idea is that we -- 3 those items come back at one time, either, you know, in the 4 next couple of weeks -- before the end of the year, anyway, 5 and next meeting in November or first meeting in December, for 6 us to make the adjustments to the plan. And Ms. -- one of 7 y'all can bring it to the Court. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Hyde? 9 MS. HYDE: We do need to have the opt-out approved 10 prior to us doing open enrollment, and the plan at this point 11 is to do open enrollment the last week of this month. I don't 12 want to wait. We have been late in the past, and this needs 13 -- this needs to be something that's a priority. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: So, what you're suggesting is we need 15 to have those things before us at our next meeting so that we 16 can finalize those so that we can move forward with the 17 enrollment procedure? 18 MS. HYDE: Absolutely. 19 MR. LOONEY: That's fine. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else you wish to add, 21 Ms. Hyde, on this entire presentation? 22 MS. HYDE: Mr. Looney and I talked in a short, brief 23 time, but the things that we discussed I think are going to 24 help us going forward. Safety has to become prevalent in our 25 culture. It has to become a habit. So, some of the things 11-13-06 40 1 that we're going to introduce is going to be a change, which a 2 lot of folks are resistant to change. We understand that. 3 But we also want to make sure that folks understand that these 4 are not things that we want to do to make it hard on them. We 5 want to make it better. So, that's it. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Change is a'coming, huh? 7 MS. HYDE: Yes. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Thank you, ma'am. 9 MR. LOONEY: And I think we're all going to enjoy 10 it. Thank you very much. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Good. Thank you, Mr. Looney. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thank you. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or discussions on 14 the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 15 your right hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Thank you, 20 Mr. Looney. 21 MR. LOONEY: Thank you, gentlemen. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: The next item that we have before us 23 is Item 4; open bids for electrical, plumbing, HVAC, and pest 24 control services. Okay. First one we have is from Terminix, 25 for pest control services. Next one we have is from Starkey 11-13-06 41 1 Pest Control for pest control services. Next is a pest 2 control services bid from Hill Country Pest Control. Next bid 3 is from Guadalupe Electric for -- I assume this is electric 4 only, and not -- not HVAC also? 5 MS. DAVIDSON: Correct. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: It indicates it's just for electric. 7 Next one we have is from D.W. Electric for electrical 8 services. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A lot of bidders this time. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Next we have plumbing services from 12 Whelan Plumbing. And then Compton's of Kerrville bid on HVAC. 13 That appears to be all of them. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, I move we accept all bids 15 and refer them to, I guess, Ms. Davidson and Mr. Bollier for 16 review and recommendation. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 19 indicated. Any question or discussion on the motion? All in 20 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. The next 25 item on the agenda is consider, discuss, and take appropriate 11-13-06 42 1 action on the Maintenance and Custodial Department's 2 reorganization. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, I put this on the agenda 4 based on our decision a while back that -- when we split up 5 the Maintenance Department, I think our direction was to -- 6 for them to come back and give us a kind of an update, a plan 7 on where they are on budgets and things of that nature. The 8 memo I sent Mr. Bollier and Ms. Davidson related to the budget 9 breakdown for your department. 10 MS. DAVIDSON: Did I hand you the right thing? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, I'm just reading my memo to 12 you. Personnel breakdown, breakdown of your responsibilities, 13 and just the status of revised job descriptions, just kind of 14 the items I think we left on the table when we split things 15 up. 16 MS. DAVIDSON: I thought you were asking -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, this is just kind of where 18 y'all are. Whichever one wants to go first. 19 MS. DAVIDSON: I'll go first. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 21 MS. DAVIDSON: We really haven't gone into that in 22 depth right now, being that we are in training mode still, and 23 working on getting our end of the year taken care of first. 24 We had talked to Tommy about the budget, and he was -- my 25 understanding that he was waiting on the 90 days, and then we 11-13-06 43 1 would sit down and talk about our split up on our budget. 2 So -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. I guess -- I don't recall 4 us saying that we were waiting 90 days to figure out how y'all 5 were going to organize the departments, but maybe I'm in error 6 there. While I can understand that Tommy may not want to do a 7 formal budget split, I think you all do need to have a split 8 between you all as to how y'all are operating, 'cause I don't 9 see how y'all can operate for several months without knowing 10 what your budgets are. The other thing, this -- you know, I 11 guess my question is kind of a breakdown on -- on how the 12 personnel was divided and that type thing. I think I pretty 13 much know that, but just to make sure that there's no change. 14 MS. DAVIDSON: I think Tim has taken care of the 15 maintenance end of it, and also the running of the Ag Barn and 16 the jail maintenance part of that. I have taken over 17 custodial, and still trying to work on admin with him, being 18 that that's a very -- kind of a touchy area that we have to 19 sit down and talk to each other about on a daily basis. So -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- on the Ag Barn issue, or 21 actually, all issues -- all the areas, everything is working 22 well from the standpoint of -- of coordination? One of the 23 concerns I think we had was that we're now having the trustee 24 program, and also the community service was now having to be 25 split and worked and coordinated. You know, that's all 11-13-06 44 1 working all right? 2 MS. DAVIDSON: We seem to be working fine together 3 and working things out. I think it's still rolling just the 4 way it was. Being, though, that he is taking over the 5 maintenance end of it, working more in tune with the jail and 6 the Ag Barn area, instead of doing the work, he's working with 7 each individual area. That's my -- and I work here from the 8 courthouse, working on custodial and -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess my view was, I thought 10 we were getting more -- or y'all would be working on more of a 11 plan. 12 MS. DAVIDSON: I think we need a little guidance, 13 though. I do. My fault. I -- maybe I'm not understanding. 14 I would like a little guidance on it, not just, "Here, do it." 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I think I would like to 16 see how y'all are planning to break out the budget. I agree 17 that Tommy doesn't need to do it right now, but I think y'all 18 do have a Maintenance Department budget; I'd like to see how 19 -- what you all consider to be Maintenance Department and what 20 y'all consider to be Custodial. 'Cause I -- and -- well, 21 'cause I see those as very different functions, and they've 22 been combined up until now. I have no problem with leaving it 23 as a single budget in -- from a county standpoint at this 24 time, but I think that each of y'all need to have your own 25 budget, 'cause I don't see how you can operate your 11-13-06 45 1 departments without it. 2 MS. DAVIDSON: I understand, and I'd like to do it 3 eventually, but I don't think we can just be shoved in it just 4 right away. I think it takes a little training and 5 understanding of which comes out of what line item. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tommy? 7 MR. TOMLINSON: I've basically changed -- already 8 done the operating items, except for -- except for personnel. 9 What -- what I did -- excuse me -- I tried to separate 10 everything that's custodial in the old Courthouse Operations 11 budget, and everything that's maintenance I put in the old 12 Parks budget, is what I did. And so everything that has to do 13 with maintenance is in the Parks budget, and everything that 14 has to do with custodial is Courthouse budget. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Courthouse, okay. 16 MR. TOMLINSON: Ms. Hyde -- the H.R. Director and I 17 visited with Commissioner Williams some two or three weeks 18 ago. We came away there -- from there with the understanding 19 that we would not do the personnel changes until the 90-day 20 probation period expired, and that we would know for sure at 21 that point what person went to what business. That's what -- 22 what the H.R. Director and I thought was the plan. That's the 23 reason we didn't change the budgets for personnel. 24 MS. DAVIDSON: And I was handed this the other day 25 by Mindy and wasn't explained anything, not knowing what it 11-13-06 46 1 was all about. So -- never told what was going on. 2 MR. BOLLIER: Same here. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- maybe at our next 4 meeting, I think we need to have a -- you need to either ask 5 questions now, and I can try and answer, at least my feeling. 6 Maybe the rest of the Court have got feedback too, but I don't 7 want to -- part of the evaluation that I'm going to have on 8 each of y'all is how y'all set up the departments and do this. 9 I can't -- I mean, I don't want to wait 90 days to do this. I 10 think the plan needs to be set in place now, 'cause unless 11 there's some pretty big problems, I don't anticipate a change 12 in 90 days. I mean, my -- I voted to do this thinking this is 13 going to work, and I don't want to really wait 90 days. So, 14 what I'd like to see is kind of a -- a breakdown of how y'all 15 envision long-term working together on things like the Ag 16 Barn. Because with you doing the work here and Tim doing the 17 work there, obviously, there has to be a written plan as to 18 how this is going to happen. Who is the point person with 19 community service? Because I think that's a -- how that's 20 going to work, because I think that could be a confusing issue 21 if Tim calls, you know, community service folks and gets -- 22 wants them, and you want them at the same time. So, I think 23 there needs to be some plan on that, and, you know, the whole 24 thing. I just think I would like to see more of a written 25 plan as to how things are going to work. I don't know how the 11-13-06 47 1 rest of the Court feels. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think what I hear the 3 Commissioner saying is that he wants y'all to be proactive. 4 MS. DAVIDSON: Correct. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Don't ask us what you ought 6 to do and how you ought to do it. Tell us how you think it 7 ought to be organized and how you should do it. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One of the concerns you 9 registered -- asked a question about has to do with Ag Barn 10 set-ups and so forth, rentals and set-ups and take-down. I 11 find it a little bit -- little bit of a concern, when reading 12 Mr. Bollier's analysis here as to why he needs more employees, 13 he talks in his second note to us about keeping up with the Ag 14 Barn and the set-ups and that things get changed at the last 15 minute, which creates problems for them. He doesn't know 16 about them. So, there is room for trying to figure out how 17 this is going to work better. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Have we had any of these incidents -- 19 I think this plan's been in effect, what, about 30 days? I 20 think October 10th is when we launched this balloon. And 21 maybe -- maybe it's a failure on my part as the Court's 22 liaison for -- for maintenance functions, but there hasn't 23 been anything brought to my attention that there were 24 difficulties in that respect. Is this just a concern you have 25 that this could happen, or has it happened? Or -- 11-13-06 48 1 MR. BOLLIER: It has happened before. Like, when 2 you have people that are sick and stuff like that, and if you 3 got people that are sick, then you don't have anybody at the 4 Ag Barn, because Shel runs the Ag Barn, basically, himself. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Has that happened within the 6 last 30 days? 7 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir, it has. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 9 MR. BOLLIER: He wasn't sick; his child was sick and 10 was in the hospital. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 12 MR. BOLLIER: And when that kind of stuff happens, 13 then you're short. And then if you don't have community 14 service workers, you're short, and that does happen quite 15 frequently. Here in the last 30 days, it hasn't happened very 16 often. We have been lucky and had community service workers. 17 But in the past, there has been times to where we have set-ups 18 to do, and we have no community service workers. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A couple things in your 20 report that I find kind of interesting, Mr. Bollier, in your 21 breakdown of your time. 22 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which you've highlighted 24 your direct involvement -- 25 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 11-13-06 49 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- for hands-on work. 2 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: With no particular order or 4 preference, I'm just going to call them out here. 5 MR. BOLLIER: No, sir. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You talk about it took you 7 an hour to work on an ad for part-time help. Ms. Hyde could 8 probably do that for you pretty quick; you wouldn't have had 9 to spend that time. Secondly, you're showing time that you 10 actually spent cleaning a bathroom. I thought that was 11 custodial work. 12 MR. BOLLIER: That's at the Ag Barn, sir. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't care where it is. 14 MR. BOLLIER: Well, I was under the impression that 15 I was supposed to do the custodial work and everything at the 16 Ag Barn, sir. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And the work at the Ag Barn, 18 clean out the arena, move pens, move tables, trash -- move 19 trash, put the arena together, racks and tables and trash 20 pickup and all that good stuff, put horse stalls together, set 21 up tables, unload tables. 22 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In terms of set-up, do we -- 24 do we attempt to charge the person who's using the facility 25 for set-up and take-down sufficiently to cover our expense? 11-13-06 50 1 MS. DAVIDSON: I know you all have been asking for a 2 set-up fee for the beginning and the take-down, the set-up and 3 the take-down. We have only charged one certain amount for a 4 set-up. Maybe we should -- or I should get with you all and 5 go over that and change it. That would be -- to my 6 understanding, that would be great. I'd like to change some 7 of the pricing and that as well; it's been a while, and bump 8 it up a little. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What really caught my eye 10 was on Thursday, November 2nd, when Tim identified his day -- 11 this is an 8-hour day he identified. Work at the Ag Barn, 12 arena with tractor, horse pens for a particular meet, fix the 13 horse stalls, fix the gate, take the bull pens and so forth, 14 then help the antique people set up their tables with 15 community service workers. Wow. We are sure generous with 16 your time. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the -- I think you 18 touched on a point that -- well, first let me start with this. 19 I'm not complaining to y'all. I think that this Commissioners 20 Court knowingly didn't delve into the Maintenance Department 21 for the last two years, for a very good reason, and I think 22 the time has come to change. I am very concerned about our 23 budget for the jail maintenance. I've talked to the Sheriff 24 about that. I think we have pretty much expended that whole 25 budget already, and we have a -- or very close to it, or 11-13-06 51 1 rapidly approaching it. We are definitely going to have a 2 huge expenditure in the jail maintenance that we didn't budget 3 for. Our air-conditioners and doors are having lots of 4 problems, and it's just a function of age. It's just 5 something that we should have planned for better. Those air 6 conditioners and all that stuff is going on 15 years old -- 7 15, 17 years old, and it's all breaking. And I think the 8 rough estimate is somewhere -- well over $100,000 of 9 unbudgeted dollars that may be needed in that -- for the air 10 conditioning system out there. So, that's -- and I -- you 11 know, talking with the Sheriff, and as the Sheriff's liaison, 12 and he has made me aware there's a lot of problems in the jail 13 maintenance side. So I think that -- I don't know that we 14 have properly allocated manpower for that one function just by 15 itself. I think it takes almost a full-time person over there 16 to keep up with the problems that we're getting over there, 17 just, like I said, a particular function of age. I think, 18 it's nothing other than that. So, what I want you two to do 19 is really look at where we are. Yes, you have budgets. Yes, 20 we're not going to hire a whole bunch more people -- or no, 21 we're not going to hire a whole bunch more. I'm not going to 22 vote to do that, but I want a plan as to where we need to go. 23 I haven't been happy with the courthouse grounds for how long, 24 Buster? Ten years? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Since they planted that 11-13-06 52 1 cactus thing out there. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Since they planted the cactus 3 thing and I got mad about it. I think we need a plan for -- I 4 think this courthouse square needs to look better than it 5 does. It looks terrible; nothing but weeds, and there's wires 6 hanging out there. I'm not complaining to you. I'm just 7 saying I want -- I would like for both y'all, for your 8 respective areas, to come to the Court with a -- kind of a 9 better plan. And it doesn't -- I mean, don't drop everything. 10 Work on this, and at the next meeting or the first meeting in 11 December -- doesn't make any difference; it's been languishing 12 for years -- I would like to get an idea and direction as to 13 what you all see is needed. I just don't think we properly 14 looked at either of your departments during the budget 15 process, and I want to know how -- and I'm real alarmed that 16 we're going to have a real problem later this year. 17 MS. DAVIDSON: On your standpoint, being that that's 18 part of your -- your other job, is you do landscaping, do you 19 have any ideas? (Laughter.) That would be wonderful. I 20 mean, I, you know, could probably find things that are less 21 maintenance -- you know, having to take care of a lot of extra 22 plants that are -- that's what I would like to see, some 23 suggestions from you. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll have to talk to the County 25 Attorney about that. I'd certainly be glad to volunteer some 11-13-06 53 1 time. I get a little bit leery about trying to closely tie 2 those two items together. I think it's a little bit of a -- 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I would encourage the two 4 of you to talk to our H.R. Director, Ms. Hyde, about how to 5 develop an organization proposal, and bring one to this 6 Commissioners Court that -- that's got all of your good 7 thinking in it. We don't know how to do your job. You do, so 8 tell us the best way to do that. 9 MS. DAVIDSON: I do want to say that I know when we 10 did this, that she was just coming on and having a few things 11 of hers to take care of, and so it was kind of -- "Ahhh." And 12 she's like, "Ahhh," and we're, like, "Okay, okay, hold on. 13 We'll back off a minute and let you get settled in." And then 14 that's where it needs to go after that. So -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're -- I mean, we're not 16 sinking. I'd just like to be more proactive. 17 MS. DAVIDSON: No, by no means are we -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't want y'all to wait 90 19 days to see, 'cause part of my 90 days is to see how y'all do 20 this step. Something that Commissioner Williams said, it was 21 something I never had thought of until I started looking at 22 some of the numbers and thinking about it. We currently 23 charge a fee for set-up and things of that nature at the Ag 24 Barn. Then we take that, but that money never finds its way 25 back into the Maintenance Department. Or, you know, it goes 11-13-06 54 1 into the general fund, and part of it goes to the Stock Show 2 Association. You know, I think that's a -- that maybe needs 3 to be looked at. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It should. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think if you're -- and 6 operating -- I mean, I don't know that we should be spending 7 -- well, if money's coming back in, I think it needs to 8 somehow either -- if Tommy can figure out a way to get that 9 money back into paying for that Maintenance employee, that's 10 what the fee is being charged for. I don't know how you can 11 do that. Or some way, 'cause I think that -- you know, we're 12 looking at these -- or I look at how many employees we have 13 and what they're doing, and I think there's a -- the 14 Maintenance Department's a little bit being artificially 15 pushed up numbers-wise, because a lot of what they're doing 16 has nothing to do with maintenance; it has to do with set-up 17 that we're supposed to be billing out for third parties. I 18 think we need to look at how we're doing this whole thing. 19 MS. DAVIDSON: Yeah. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In that same context, we're 21 not charging appropriately for what's being done. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 23 MS. DAVIDSON: So it's time to change. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, yeah. That's kind of -- but 25 I'll get off my soap box on maintenance. I just wanted to -- 11-13-06 55 1 and I knew y'all didn't have a lot. I just put on it the 2 agenda so we can give a little more direction. 3 MS. DAVIDSON: Thank you. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, this lady has a comment. 5 AUDIENCE: If I can put in a commercial for what to 6 improve the courthouse, check with the Native Plant Society. 7 Low maintenance, low water use, it's really the way to go, and 8 it sends a message to the community as well. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that's a very good idea. 10 MS. DAVIDSON: Thank you. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Riverside Nature Center, that -- 12 probably that whole group would be very helpful, as would the 13 Master Gardeners. We certainly support them so they can 14 support us. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: In my capacity as the Court's liaison 16 for maintenance functions, after we hatched this plan a month 17 ago, my emphasis to Tim and Alyce has been to try and maintain 18 the functional and operational aspects of it to make sure that 19 the job gets done. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mm-hmm. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I was aware that they were going to 22 have to be doing a lot of communication, sorting out -- 23 there's some gray areas. Is this a custodial issue? Is this 24 a grounds issue? Is this a maintenance issue? What is it? 25 There's some other issues about if -- if you've got a very 11-13-06 56 1 minor custodial issue to be performed at a remote location 2 where the maintenance people are, and they can knock that out 3 very readily and -- and help one another out, that seems -- 4 common sense tells me that's the way to go, rather than to 5 dispatch somebody to go all the way to the remote location to 6 get that done. I -- I have -- I have told Tim and Alyce, 7 let's try and get the operational and the real-world functions 8 done, and then you can build your paper plan from there and 9 your job descriptions. And -- but the main thing is to be 10 sure that you're communicating and both of you know what's 11 going on in the other's camp so that something doesn't fall 12 through the cracks. So, to the extent there might be some 13 shortage of -- or deficiency in the paper plans being 14 generated, lay it right here in my lap. I'm responsible for 15 it. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think it's a problem. 17 I'm not saying there's a problem. I just think that it's a -- 18 from talking with -- with, basically, the Sheriff through the 19 Ag Barn -- not the Ag Barn, the jail, and hanging out at the 20 Ag Barn a fair amount and I see Tim out there, I just thought 21 that some of these things needed to be really kind of worked 22 on. I wanted to make sure that they're -- when I look back at 23 when we set this up, I don't think we gave a whole lot of 24 guidance as a Court, and I think that that's -- I think that 25 was our problem. It's kind of my goal to come back today and 11-13-06 57 1 say, Hey, I understand we didn't give a lot of guidance. This 2 is kind of a little bit more direction, what we want. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: No question. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or what I want. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: No question. It was very spongy, and 6 there were going to be issues that needed to be worked out on 7 a daily basis for -- for some period of time. They're still 8 being worked out on a daily basis. I have discussions with 9 both Tim and Alyce daily, several times a day sometimes, about 10 separate things. What do I think? And, you know, we talk 11 common sense, and things -- things that may not otherwise be 12 applicable. I don't know. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Let's -- 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, sir? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Before -- if we can get 18 17 out of the way, Mr. Buck is sitting there waiting to talk on 18 1.08. Before we take a break, can we do that one? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: We've got some timed issues I need to 20 get to, Commissioner. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm sorry. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: I think I can get back to that 23 quickly. At this time, I'm going to recess the Commissioners 24 Court meeting, and I'm going to convene a public hearing for 25 the revision of plat for Lots 17A and 16 in Cypress Springs 11-13-06 58 1 Estates, Phase I, as set forth in Volume 7, Page 12, Plat 2 Records, and located in Precinct 4. 3 (The regular Commissioners Court meeting was closed at 10:16 a.m., and a public hearing was held in open 4 court, as follows:) 5 P U B L I C H E A R I N G 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there any member of the public 7 that wishes to be heard with regard to the revision of plat 8 for Lots 17A and 16, Cypress Springs Estates, Phase I? Seeing 9 no one wishing to be recognized or coming forward, I will 10 close the public hearing for revision of plat for Lots 17A and 11 16, Cypress Springs Estates, in Phase I. 12 (The public hearing was concluded at 10:16 a.m., and the regular Commissioners Court meeting was 13 reopened.) 14 - - - - - - - - - - 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go back to Item 8, then. 16 Consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to adopt a 17 resolution authorizing Kerr County to submit an application 18 for a Community Development Block Grant through the Office of 19 Rural Community Affairs for Phase IV of the Kerrville South 20 Wastewater Project. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Williams. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, sir. This is -- 24 as we've talked about in the past, would be our application 25 for funding for Phase IV of the Kerrville South Wastewater 11-13-06 59 1 Project. I see Mr. Buck is here, and I've agreed with him and 2 his Finance Operations Committee to appear before them 3 tomorrow with -- in the hopes that they will also be a 4 participant in Phase IV, as they have in Phases I, II, and 5 III. This is pretty standard. This is our application -- 6 resolution that would authorize us to move forward in our 7 request for funding of up to a half million dollars in grant 8 funds. I would move adoption of the resolution. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 11 and adoption of the resolution as indicated. Any question or 12 discussion on the motion? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Does Mr. Buck have any comment? 14 MS. BUCK: Your Honor and Court, the comment that I 15 have is that we've enjoyed, I think, a good relationship with 16 this Court, especially Commissioner Williams in pushing this 17 project forward. Recently -- in September, in fact -- we 18 approved our strategic plan, a five-year goals and objectives, 19 what we think we can best serve the community, and part of 20 that is -- is facilitating this sewage treatment or sewage 21 collection. I don't know what the board's going to vote. 22 Again, you're -- you said that you were going to make a 23 petition to them, so that's where we are. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We appreciate what you guys 11-13-06 60 1 do. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you very much, Ray. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. All in favor of the 4 motion -- 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I got a question for 6 Mr. Williams. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Sorry. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I never have been sure how 9 you pronounce this. Is it colonia funding? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Colonias. It's that block 11 grant that comes down for -- 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We don't have to do 13 anything extra to qualify? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We've already done that? 16 That's my only question. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're qualified because 18 we're a hundred -- within 150 miles of the border. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments? All 20 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Judge. 11-13-06 61 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me move to Item 11. I will 2 recess the Commissioners Court meeting, and I'll now call a 3 public hearing for the revision of plat for Wood Trails Ranch, 4 Lots 43B and 46, as set forth in Volume 4, Page 98, and Volume 5 5, Page 140, Plat Records, and located in Precinct 4. 6 (The regular Commissioners Court meeting was closed at 10:21 a.m., and a public hearing was held in open 7 court, as follows:) 8 P U B L I C H E A R I N G 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there any member of the public 10 that wishes to be heard with regard to the revision of the 11 plat for Wood Trails Ranch, Lots 43B and 46, as set forth in 12 Volume 4, Page 98, and Volume 5, Page 140 of the Plat Records? 13 Yes, ma'am? If you would come forward and give us your name 14 and address, and tell us what's on your mind about this 15 subject. 16 MS. LEONHARDT: I'm Arlene Leonhardt, and I'm here 17 for the homeowners association of Wood Trails. And the only 18 thing we want to be sure of is that that -- those additions of 19 property are put in with the normal plot description, and 20 those are not separate lots. The additions that are being 21 made are not going to be individual lots? They are going to 22 be put into the description of the existing lots? That was 23 our only question. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: This is a public hearing, and we can 25 take your comments; we can take your suggestions. When we get 11-13-06 62 1 to the actual consideration of the item, which is Item 12 on 2 the agenda, hopefully someone will be able to answer that 3 question for you. I think Mr. Odom's here, and maybe he can 4 tell us at that point. 5 MS. LEONHARDT: All right. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. Is there anyone 7 else that wishes to be heard concerning the revision of plat 8 for Wood Trails Ranch, Lots 43B and 46, as set forth in Volume 9 4, Page 98, and Volume 5, Page 140 of the Plat Records? 10 Seeing no one else coming forward or seeking recognition, I 11 will close the public hearing for the revision of plat for 12 Wood Trails Ranch, Lots 43B and 46, as set forth in Volume 4, 13 Page 98, and Volume 5, page 140 of the Plat Records. 14 (The public hearing was concluded at 10:23 a.m., and the regular Commissioners Court meeting was 15 reopened.) 16 - - - - - - - - - - 17 JUDGE TINLEY: I will reconvene the Commissioners 18 courts meeting, and we will go to Item 6; consider, discuss, 19 and approve the filing -- filling of open, full-time position 20 in the Maintenance Department. This also shows to be an 21 executive session item. Is there any portion of it that needs 22 to be considered or could be considered in open session at 23 this time? 24 MR. BOLLIER: No, sir. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 11-13-06 63 1 MR. EMERSON: May I ask a question, Judge? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. 3 MR. EMERSON: Is it related to a particular 4 employee's duties or responsibilities of an existing employee? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 6 MR. BOLLIER: It just has -- it just tells what each 7 individual does. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Talking about job descriptions? 9 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. Well, more or less what 10 they're just doing, like at the Ag Barn. It's just kind of a 11 breakdown of where everybody is and where everybody's working. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why don't you start it, and the 13 County Attorney will tell you -- it may not qualify for 14 executive session. 15 MR. BOLLIER: Okay. Well, here I've -- I have 16 prepared -- there's three pages here, why I need more 17 employees in the Facilities and Maintenance Department. And I 18 have a table here that shows the hours that are -- that need 19 to be spent at each location, the courthouse, jail, JDC, and 20 Ag Barn, and work the supervisors -- hands-on work at all 21 facilities. Like, at the courthouse, I show that I need 22 somebody here, you know, around four hours a day. The jail, 23 eight hours a day. JDC, two hours, and the Ag Barn, I need 16 24 hours there, and Monday through Saturday. And Sunday, I show 25 eight hours, and then I show working supervisor, four hours at 11-13-06 64 1 each of -- at each facility. And this is all based on a 2 40-hour week. And we rely on community service workers for 3 the set-up arena, prepare stock show, the fair, and large 4 events in the Ag Barn, and that a problem arises when they do 5 not show up for community service when you need them most. 6 The fact they're used to curb employee need is not always a 7 reliable source of manpower, and makes work scheduling very 8 difficult at times. Staffing needs to be at a level by which 9 needed. 10 Every day work is accomplished in an economical and 11 efficient manner. Because we have few employees in this 12 department, individuals have to handle multiple areas of 13 responsibility. And in the last few weeks, each member of my 14 limited staff has worked 40-plus hours each week. With 15 additional employees, I can utilize a 7-day rotating work 16 schedule, which will help to get control of the comp time, 17 overtime problem. And if it -- employee assignments: As of 18 today, I have Shel at the Ag Barn, Exhibit Hall maintenance 19 and set-up. Shel works weekends for Dan Edwards and is not 20 available to help on weekend schedules at Ag Barn. Shane's 21 responsible -- responsibilities consist mainly of the jail, 22 because knowing the ins and outs of this facility takes a 23 while to learn, which makes it more efficient to leave Shane 24 here, and the jail takes up most of his time. And Tim should 25 be working maintenance, hands-on, half-time covering other 11-13-06 65 1 facilities -- that's myself. And this is where the 2 Maintenance Department is short. 3 In order to complete all priority work at jail and 4 keep up with Ag Barn, Exhibit Hall, the courthouse and JDC, 5 along with other miscellaneous jobs, or catch as catch can, 6 this is being accomplished only because I am working 7 maintenance seven to eight hours a day, some days doing set-up 8 at Ag Barn, not stopping for any breaks or lunch. Note, 9 keeping up with the Ag Barn/Exhibit Hall set-ups for events is 10 difficult with the limited staff I have at present, and gets 11 near impossible when there are last-minute changes to the 12 event set-ups or items needed that are added which I have not 13 been told about. I would like to be part of review process 14 when these events are set up so that I can better schedule 15 manpower needed. I would like to suggest a time frame which 16 dictates the last day changes can be made by the exhibitors or 17 to our users of the Ag Barn/Exhibit Hall facilities. 18 And then, on the back, I have where -- I show the 19 overtime and part-time moneys that were spent last year. Over 20 the past year, like at the courthouse, I have part-time used 21 was $809. Courthouse overtime used was $777.22. At the jail, 22 part-time used was $5,195.24. The Ag Barn, part-time used was 23 $1,705, and at the Ag Barn, overtime used is $1,791. Actual 24 part-time/overtime expense was $10,277.46. And down here, I 25 have part-time/overtime. In amended budgets for '06-'07, 11-13-06 66 1 courthouse part-time shows nothing now, which was $4,000 on 2 513, which Tommy went over earlier with us. And courthouse 3 overtime, I spent 12 -- I have $1,200 in there, $5,000 in jail 4 part-time. Ag Barn, 2,500. Ag Barn/Exhibit Hall overtime, I 5 have 2,000. And in 513 account, which Tommy went over earlier 6 why all that was left the way it was. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right now, you are down half an 8 employee? Were you -- we have budgeted for one-half a person 9 right now that is -- that spot's open, correct? 10 MR. BOLLIER: Right. Right, because Charles Utz 11 quit. He was my part-time help at the jail, and he quit. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: And he was handling virtually all of 14 the maintenance functions at the jail? He was pretty well 15 assigned there? 16 MR. BOLLIER: He was there, period. But Shane would 17 go over there every morning to help him out, because he -- 18 there's more than Charles could do in two hours while he was 19 there. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: So, the position that you have open 21 is a part-time facilities -- 22 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: And if that's -- the position is 24 filled, you -- you then have Shane freed up to do more on 25 other assignments? 11-13-06 67 1 MR. BOLLIER: Well, if I have him only part-time, 2 there's more work there at the jail than a part-timer can do. 3 And I have -- I have brought with me today a box of work 4 orders that we have done over the past year. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Please don't. (Laughter.) 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Thing is, it's just the jail. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We need to take that 8 half-time person and move it to a full-time person, and get on 9 down the road. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree. I think that's a -- 11 what we -- basically, when we did our reorganization, we went 12 down one person in the Maintenance Department. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And -- and, to me, I look at it, 15 even if you do it equal, half goes into the custodial side and 16 half goes into this side, and a half and a half makes it a 17 full person. And I think -- I mean, we're just back to where 18 we were if we authorize a full-time position, which is taking 19 that half and just adding another half to it. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Are we increasing the 21 budget? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: No, we got the money in the budget. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Money is overly funded in the 25 budget. We funded a supervisor, and when we did the 11-13-06 68 1 reorganization, we went with two working supervisors instead, 2 so I think there should be -- there's budgeted funds. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Appears that way. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: So, what you're asking, then, is 5 instead of having a half-time person, in order to handle the 6 load that you have, instead of filling that as a half-time job 7 or part-time job, you want a full-time person? 8 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I make a motion we authorize the 11 Maintenance Department to change the half-time slot to a 12 full-time slot, with the understanding that there will be less 13 comp and part-time -- or comp time used. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Overtime. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Overtime. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What grade and step? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know. Work that out 18 with them. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. I mean, it's just a -- 20 it's going to be whatever fits in the schedule for a 21 maintenance worker. I mean, work with Ms. Hyde on that. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I second that motion. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 24 of the Maintenance employee as indicated. Any further 25 question or discussion on the motion? All in favor of the 11-13-06 69 1 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 2 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 4 (No response.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let me 6 quickly adjourn -- or recess the Commissioners Court hearing 7 and convene a public hearing that was scheduled for 10:30 for 8 road name changes and regulatory signs in various locations, 9 as advertised. 10 (The regular Commissioners Court meeting was closed at 10:32 a.m., and a public hearing was held in open 11 court, as follows:) 12 P U B L I C H E A R I N G 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there any member -- member of the 14 public that wishes to be heard concerning the road name 15 changes and regulatory signs in various locations as published 16 by the Court? Seeing no one coming forward, I will close the 17 public hearing on the road name changes and regulatory signs 18 in various locations as published. 19 (The public hearing was concluded at 10:32 a.m., and the regular Commissioners Court meeting was 20 reopened.) 21 - - - - - - - - - - 22 JUDGE TINLEY: And I will reconvene the 23 Commissioners Court meeting, and at this point, we'll stand in 24 recess for about 15 minutes. 25 (Recess taken from 10:33 a.m. to 10:51 a.m.) - - - - - - - - - - 11-13-06 70 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order, if we 2 might. The next item on the agenda is Item 7; consider, 3 discuss, and take appropriate action as a result of meeting 4 with I.R.S. on November 7th, 2006, in reference to tax period 5 June 30th, 2006. Ms. Nemec? What do you have for us this 6 morning? 7 MS. NEMEC: This involves an employee, so I just 8 want to make sure it's okay with her that it is in open 9 session. 10 MS. MAGENHEIMER: That's fine. 11 MS. NEMEC: Is that fine? 12 MS. MAGENHEIMER: No problem. 13 MS. NEMEC: This was on the agenda a couple of -- 14 well, I think it was last month, and it was in reference to a 15 letter that we had received from I.R.S. What happened was, on 16 the May 31st payroll taxes, once our Auditor reconciled the 17 payroll tax -- well, not the pay -- the bank statement, it was 18 brought to my attention on June the 22nd, I believe, that the 19 payroll taxes had not cleared the bank, the deposit. And so 20 at that time, I contacted I.R.S. and explained to them that it 21 had not cleared, and asked at that time what I needed to do to 22 make sure that we did not get penalized for it. And they told 23 me that I needed to wait until we sent in our 941 report, and 24 at that time, to ask that any penalties and interest be 25 removed, and so I did that. And then I got a letter from them 11-13-06 71 1 stating that until they reconciled the 941, they could not 2 remove any penalty and interest; that I'd have to wait for 3 them to reconcile it, and then they would issue a letter and 4 then I would have to take care of it at that point. 5 So, they issued the letter. And when they issued 6 the letter, I invited Jackie Magenheimer, who was my clerk at 7 that time, and Eva, which is her boss now, to go with me to 8 San Antonio to take care of the matter and to see what the 9 I.R.S. would say at that time. So, we went on Tuesday -- last 10 Tuesday, and we talked to a representative there, and I showed 11 them where Ms. Magenheimer had gone into the system. At that 12 time, how we were doing it was through wire transfers through 13 Security State Bank. And I showed them where Ms. Magenheimer 14 had gone in through the wire transfer through Security State 15 Bank, and where she had gotten her verification dated 5-31, to 16 where it had printed out her verification through Security 17 State Bank on two sheets, and see what they suggested that I 18 do. Because we got the -- the letter from I.R.S. stating 19 penalties and interest for that period. They said that -- 20 there in San Antonio that they were not allowed to waive any 21 penalties based on -- on me showing them this information; 22 that what I would have to do is write back to where they wrote 23 me the letter from and send a copy of this to them, and write 24 -- send them a copy of this, and to write the circumstances 25 that I had told them had occurred, and they were the only ones 11-13-06 72 1 that would be able to waive that amount, that penalty and 2 interest. So, I want to share with you the draft that I've 3 drafted up to send to them. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Barbara, did all three of you 5 go to San Antonio? 6 MS. NEMEC: All three of us went to San Antonio, 7 yes. And there's one for each of you and one for the clerk. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One short? 9 MS. NEMEC: Oh, you're one short? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've been treated this way 11 all my life. (Laughter.) Thank you. 12 MS. NEMEC: I have an extra one. Okay. And this is 13 to the I.R.S. It says, The County received your letter dated 14 November 6 assessing penalties for late payment of payroll 15 taxes for Form 941 for the quarter ending -- ended June 30th, 16 2006. Please note the attachment which shows that the deputy 17 clerk for the pay -- for the taxpayer initiated a timely wire 18 transfer for the payroll taxes that were due on June 2nd, 19 2006. The attachment indicates that the wire transfer was 20 initiated on May 31st, 2006. The wire transfer verification 21 attached indicates that the payroll tax deposit for May 30th, 22 2006 payroll was made timely and in good order. Only later, 23 once the bank reconciliation was reviewed, was the County 24 Treasurer able to see that the transfer was -- that the 25 transfer never occurred. At that point, the taxes were 11-13-06 73 1 deposited immediately. When these payroll taxes were 2 originally due, the County Treasurer conferred with the deputy 3 clerk that, indeed, the payroll tax deposit had been made 4 timely. It was the County Treasurer's full understanding that 5 the tax deposit had been made as usual. The verification 6 attached shows that the tax deposit was initiated, but upon 7 further investigation, it is clear that there was a breakdown 8 in completion of the transaction. In order to prevent this 9 problem from reoccurring, the taxpayer will now begin to make 10 payroll taxes -- payroll tax deposits using the Electronic 11 Federal Tax to Payment System, which is called EFTPS, directly 12 rather than using the wire transfer method used previously. 13 The EFTPS system provides a deposit record and trace number 14 that can be used as a receipt. The taxpayer regrets that the 15 tax payments were not made on time and is making every effort 16 to comply. Steps have been taken to insure timely payment and 17 verification in the future. Please note that the taxpayer is 18 prudently applying the federal tax deposit laws. Due to the 19 circumstances described above, I respectfully request that the 20 penalties assessed be waived. Thank you for your 21 consideration on this matter. 22 The EFTPS system is the most current way that 23 employers are depositing tax payments. It's -- you go online 24 and you -- you hook up directly to I.R.S., and it is -- once 25 you do that, you get a confirmation number, and it's their 11-13-06 74 1 responsibility from there, once you get your confirmation 2 number, for them to hook up to your bank and withdraw those 3 funds. And when the lady told us -- you know, when you -- 4 when you send them a letter, they want to know how it 5 happened, proof that there was an initial attempt to deposit 6 your taxes on time, and then they want to know how you're 7 taking the matter to prevent it from happening again. So, 8 that's where the basis of the letter came from. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Barbara, tell me, why didn't 10 the wire transfer work? I mean, I don't -- I don't understand 11 how those things work. Why didn't it -- when she entered it 12 and mashed the button, why didn't it go? 13 MS. NEMEC: Do you want to address that, Jackie? 14 MS. MAGENHEIMER: Well, I would like to refer back 15 to the third paragraph. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Third paragraph, okay. 17 MS. MAGENHEIMER: Actually, Barbara was standing 18 right behind me when I was doing this. She was watching me. 19 And I had not really been trained adequately to do this, but 20 she was feeling a little shy in doing it, so she asked me. 21 And, for whatever reason, lack of training that I had, that -- 22 that was not finalized. Whatever, that last push -- that 23 button was to be pushed did not happen. 24 MS. NEMEC: This was just our third time to do this. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm not questioning that you 11-13-06 75 1 did it or didn't. I just want to know where the glitch is. 2 Or obviously a glitch somewhere. Or maybe -- maybe not. 3 MS. MAGENHEIMER: Well, my lack of training. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the answer? 5 MS. MAGENHEIMER: Is the glitch. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The glitch was, the final button 7 wasn't pushed properly. 8 MS. MAGENHEIMER: Exactly. But it wasn't done on -- 9 with mal-intent. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm a little curious about 11 Paragraph 2 in your cover note -- in your letter -- proposed 12 letter to the I.R.S., which you say wire verification attached 13 indicates that the payroll tax deposit for the May 30, '06 14 payroll was made and in good order. Only later, when the bank 15 reconciliation was reviewed -- it doesn't say when that was -- 16 was the County Treasurer able to see that the transfer never 17 occurred. At that point, the taxes were deposited 18 immediately. 19 MS. NEMEC: Mm-hmm. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm a little confused by 21 that. Were the taxes not in the bank -- deposited in the bank 22 prior to May 30 or on May 30? 23 MS. NEMEC: No. See, we got this verification when 24 -- when Jackie did them. We got this verification from the 25 system. And it said 5 -- 5-31-2006. That, to us, told us 11-13-06 76 1 that they had been done. Like I said, this was just like the 2 third or fourth time we had done it. The first two times, 3 Security State Bank came and walked us through it. We had 4 never done this before. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, what you're saying 6 should have taken place was an electronic debit of our account 7 for purposes of taxes; is that correct? 8 MS. NEMEC: Right. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Before it was forwarded to 10 the I.R.S. 11 MS. NEMEC: Right. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that what you're saying? 13 MS. NEMEC: Right. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And if I understand you 15 correctly, then, you're saying that the electronic debit of 16 our account didn't take place? 17 MS. NEMEC: Right. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Therefore, there weren't 19 funds to -- to send -- to forward to I.R.S., and that's why it 20 didn't clear the bank? 21 MS. NEMEC: Right. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Did I understand that 23 correctly? 24 MS. NEMEC: That's correct. But when we saw this 25 print, and it's dated 5-31, and it has the amount and the 11-13-06 77 1 checking account and everything that it -- it's taken out 2 from, we assumed everything cleared, went through okay. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But do we know why the 4 electronic debit of our -- 5 MS. NEMEC: Because it was -- 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- of our account didn't 7 function properly? 8 MS. NEMEC: 'cause it wasn't -- the transaction 9 wasn't completed. There would have actually been a third page 10 to this. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I see. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They exited before they should 13 have exited. 14 MS. NEMEC: Right. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Nemec, you indicated that this 16 procedure had been accomplished on two or three prior 17 occasions? 18 MS. NEMEC: Right. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: And it was done with the assistance 20 of personnel from Security State Bank and Trust? 21 MS. NEMEC: Right. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Who else participated -- who was 23 actually handling the -- from your office was handling the 24 activity concerning those prior occasions? 25 MS. NEMEC: The -- 11-13-06 78 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Were you present? 2 MS. NEMEC: Was I present? Yes. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So, you were working with -- 4 or Security State Bank was working with you to go through this 5 procedure on those two or three prior occasions? 6 MS. NEMEC: Actual -- well, actually, I think they 7 were training Jackie on the direct deposits and the 941's, and 8 I was doing the payroll. And this end of it, Jackie was 9 doing. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: So, what you're telling me is that 11 Security State Bank personnel were training Jackie, and not 12 you? 13 MS. NEMEC: Yes, that is correct. Right, Jackie? 14 MS. MAGENHEIMER: No, it's not. I was observing. 15 They were training Barbara. 16 MS. NEMEC: You weren't doing this end of the 17 payroll? 18 MS. MAGENHEIMER: No. 19 MS. NEMEC: And I was doing the payroll? 20 MS. MAGENHEIMER: I was observing that training; I 21 did not actually do it. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: But you were present when Security 23 State Bank was going through the procedure on two or three 24 occasions prior to the May 30 -- 25 MS. NEMEC: I was present, yes. 11-13-06 79 1 JUDGE TINLEY: -- May 31 payroll? 2 MS. NEMEC: I thought Jackie was actually sitting 3 down at the -- I thought you were the one actually sitting 4 down doing it, and I was overseeing it. 5 MS. MAGENHEIMER: No. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. And this was two or three 7 occasions prior to the May 30 or 31 -- 8 MS. NEMEC: Yes. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: -- payroll. This documentation that 10 you've attached to your letter, this cash management, this is 11 documentation that is generated within your office in 12 connection with this transaction? 13 MS. NEMEC: Yes. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: What documentation does the Security 15 State Bank generate in connection with this type of a 16 transaction? 17 MS. NEMEC: What do they generate? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 19 MS. NEMEC: I believe I have what they have -- what 20 they generate. They sent me something, and I took that to 21 I.R.S., and they said that -- that just meant that we logged 22 onto their system; it didn't mean anything to them. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 24 MS. NEMEC: They didn't even suggest I send that. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Does the Security State Bank and 11-13-06 80 1 Trust not generate some documentation that confirms the 2 transmittal of those funds? 3 MS. NEMEC: I'm sure they do, but when I asked them 4 for the 5-31, what they sent me, I guess because it didn't 5 finalize -- no, I don't have it, because the I.R.S. said that 6 just shows log-on, information when we logged on that day. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, what you're asking -- 8 MS. NEMEC: And because there was no -- there was 9 nothing transferred. They didn't have anything that showed 10 that anything was transferred, 'cause nothing was actually 11 transferred. It shows that we were logged on that day 12 attempting to do something, but it doesn't show anything was 13 actually done. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Had anything actually been done; 15 i.e., confirm that the funds had actually been transferred, 16 would not Security State Bank have issued some sort of 17 documented confirmation that that had, in fact, occurred? 18 MS. NEMEC: Well, let's see. I have the one here 19 from... 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Does Security State Bank and Trust 21 not have a standard itemized protocol to be followed for these 22 kinds of -- of federal tax deposit transactions? 23 MS. NEMEC: See, on the one that you all have -- 24 this is the one that was done on the 15th, and it has "Created 25 by" and "Approved by," and on those that you have, it does not 11-13-06 81 1 have "Approved by." 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This top portion right here. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The "Created by" or the -- 4 and/or the "Approved by," is there some password or code that 5 you use that tells the system it's a duly authorized source 6 that's expending those funds? 7 MS. NEMEC: Yes. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So you've got a password? 9 MS. NEMEC: I've got a password, Jackie has a 10 password. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And I don't know what it 12 is, so I couldn't transfer those funds? 13 MS. NEMEC: Right. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There should be some 15 confirmation of the debit from the bank. I certainly confirm 16 all the debits I have on my account. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think what she's saying is she 18 could -- when she did the reconciliation, that's when the 19 debit showed up as not going through. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: I think it's when the Auditor did the 21 reconciliation. 22 MS. NEMEC: Right. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: He didn't find it. Do you know 24 whether or not there's a standard protocol sequence issued by 25 Security State Bank and Trust for deposits of this type? 11-13-06 82 1 MS. NEMEC: I don't know. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Does the Auditor know? 3 MS. NEMEC: Other than this here, that it does show 4 you if it's been approved. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the bank obviously has some 6 documentation concerning what occurs each time a depositor's 7 funds are transferred within that bank. 8 MS. NEMEC: I'm sure they do. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: On the depositor's account over to a 10 third party. 11 MS. NEMEC: Well, they sent me a confirmation by 12 mail, the wire transfer confirmation. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: By mail or fax, or -- 14 MS. NEMEC: By mail. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Wire transfer confirmation 17 that they're sending it to the third party? 18 MS. NEMEC: Once they've sent it. But, you know, 19 that doesn't happen right away. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think what the Judge and I 21 are asking about, don't they give you a confirmation of the 22 debit? 23 MS. NEMEC: They mail it to us, but not right away. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, you -- 25 MS. NEMEC: I mean, this is our confirmation right 11-13-06 83 1 here. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't see it. 3 MS. NEMEC: No, it's not -- it's not there. I mean, 4 that right there, it's not there, because it didn't go 5 through. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: What you're telling me is when -- 7 when you authorize a -- a transfer, they confirm by mail in 8 these instances also? 9 MS. NEMEC: What do you mean, in those instances? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: In I.R.S. tax deposit instances. Do 11 they -- 12 MS. NEMEC: If they go through. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: -- certify them by mail also? 14 MS. NEMEC: Yes, if they go through. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. What does it normally take, 16 three days for you to get that? 17 MS. NEMEC: No. No, it takes longer than that. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Five days? 19 MS. NEMEC: I really don't know. I'll check next 20 time how long it takes. I've never paid any mind to how long 21 it took. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: I'd be real interested in knowing how 23 long that process takes. It occurs to me it shouldn't take 24 more than three to five days. 25 MS. NEMEC: I don't know. 11-13-06 84 1 JUDGE TINLEY: I'd also -- and I think I mentioned 2 it to you -- 3 MS. NEMEC: No, I know it takes longer than that, 4 'cause I've -- I like to file my stuff right away, and it lays 5 on my desk way too long before I can file it. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I think -- 7 MS. NEMEC: And what -- this thing is also -- I say 8 it comes in by mail. It comes in -- it sits at one of the 9 drive-throughs, and they -- different people pick up different 10 things. Sometimes they'll give it to another department that 11 goes and picks it up, and so by the time I get it, 12 sometimes -- it just depends who they give it to to pick it 13 up. And they do that to me, too. They'll say, "Will you take 14 this to the District Clerk? Will you take this to J.P. 1? 15 Will you take..." So, I think that's what the delay is, that 16 they keep our -- everybody's stuff in the drive-through. And 17 sometimes, by the time I get it -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That seems unacceptable. 19 MS. NEMEC: They hold our stuff. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. I agree. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, Security State Bank, 22 that -- I mean, I don't -- they're not here. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That is unacceptable. 24 MS. NEMEC: That's how they do our stuff. I say by 25 mail. 11-13-06 85 1 JUDGE TINLEY: I -- 2 MS. NEMEC: They do all our -- all our 3 correspondence that way. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How many departments deal with 5 Security State directly with cash or deposits? I mean, 6 District Clerk does and the Sheriff, Rex. Quite a few. 7 County Clerk probably -- I'm sure does. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Tax Office. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tax Office. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I've never had a problem like 11 that. I always get it directly from them. 12 MS. NEMEC: Yeah, they don't give us -- 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Haven't had any kind of 14 problems like what's she's talking about. Security State's 15 been fabulous. 16 MS. UECKER: They give me stuff to take to Barbara, 17 and I make sure that she gets it that very day, you know, for 18 those type of reasons. Now, how long they're holding it over 19 there, you know, I don't know. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do they -- and this is -- I 21 mean, when you go or you go or you go, I mean, you don't 22 personally go each time. I would assume you would send 23 someone from your office. Or do you personally -- 24 MS. UECKER: I do. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You personally go? 11-13-06 86 1 MS. UECKER: Mm-hmm. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I send somebody. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It seems to me that -- I'm a 4 little concerned, and maybe you might want to -- Ms. Hyde's 5 looking at our personnel procedures. It seems a little bit 6 loose on dealing with the bank. Even if Rusty -- I mean, 7 sends one of your deputies or whoever you send, I think it -- 8 I'm a little concerned about financial information being 9 transported in that manner. But, anyway, that's another 10 issue. Okay. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: I think I mentioned the last time we 12 were discussing one of these issues, I seem to recall asking 13 you to obtain a -- the protocols that the bank has for 14 handling these kinds of issues, and have you made inquiry of 15 the bank about that? 16 MS. NEMEC: No. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Would you mind doing that? 18 MS. NEMEC: Okay. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: The -- who's responsible for training 20 in your office? 21 MS. NEMEC: For training? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 23 MS. NEMEC: I am, or whoever -- like, with this new 24 -- it just depends. Like, when we went onto the new system, 25 well, we had someone from Incode come and train us. And when 11-13-06 87 1 we were training on the direct deposit and 941's, the bank 2 came and trained us, so it just depends. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: But it's your responsibility to see 4 that that training occurs? 5 MS. NEMEC: I would say so. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is this cash management 7 software, repetitive wire transfer editing, so forth, is that 8 our software, or is that provided by the bank? 9 MS. NEMEC: That's the bank. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And about that, I notice that 11 there's not a date -- a place for a date on this form at all. 12 How would you -- how would you know what date that you sent a 13 transfer? 14 MS. NEMEC: It's on the very bottom. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, that's going to be a 16 question to the computer guru with all this psychobabble down 17 here, and then a date. Is that what that means? 18 MR. TROLINGER: That's the date that it was printed. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Was that the date that it -- 20 that this was sent, or tried to be sent? 21 MR. TROLINGER: Negative. It's the date that that 22 page from Internet Explorer was printed on the printer. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, how do you keep a record 24 of what date you actually transferred... 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you recall how much the penalties 11-13-06 88 1 and interest were? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't get an answer to my 3 question? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, I'm sorry. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Usually when you ask a 6 question, there's an answer comes back. But maybe not at this 7 point. How do you know what day you transfer money from one 8 place to another? 9 MS. NEMEC: Well, we print this out the same day 10 that we do the transaction. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 12 MS. NEMEC: That's the way we know. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. Thank you. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Sorry, I thought you were just doing 15 musing there. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, I really -- it was a real 17 question. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. All right. You recall the 19 amount of the penalty and interest that we've got in issue 20 here, Ms. Nemec? 21 MS. NEMEC: It was a little over 12,000. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Have you forwarded this letter that 23 you've given us a copy of today? 24 MS. NEMEC: No. No, I wanted you all to read it and 25 get any suggestions from you all. 11-13-06 89 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Ms. Nemec, you had indicated 2 on this cash management document that you gave us that there 3 was supposed to be a third page to this? 4 MS. NEMEC: Well, I notice that -- now that I'm 5 sending them, that I'm getting that third page. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What does that third page 7 consist of? 8 MS. NEMEC: It says Approved. "Created by" and 9 "Approved." Do you want to see it? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. Following up kind of 11 on Commissioner Baldwin's question, the only date that appears 12 here is -- is this submit date, and that in this case was two 13 weeks after the fact. That would be -- 14 MS. NEMEC: No, that was for 15th payroll. That's 15 another payroll. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a different payroll? 17 MS. NEMEC: Yeah. That's just for an example. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There was no submit date on 19 these first two pages anywhere. 20 MS. NEMEC: And, see, this is for the 15th payroll, 21 so here it says submit date; that's for the 15th, but I 22 initiated it on the 14th, and that's the date that's down 23 here. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But even in this scenario, 25 you don't get from the bank a reasonably immediate 11-13-06 90 1 confirmation of the debit? 2 MS. NEMEC: Not till I get the confirmation when it 3 comes through -- and, see, right here, it has 6-14 and what 4 time I sent it. This is the confirmation right here. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, we've got -- we owe 6 $12,000 for this one late payment, more or less. Is that -- 7 is additional interest and penalties being incurred? Is it 8 not going up? 9 MS. NEMEC: Yes, until they receive the letter and 10 determine whether they're going to waive -- 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What reason do we give them 12 to approve our appeal? We say we didn't make the payment on 13 time. 14 MS. NEMEC: Well, like I said, they want to know 15 what we're going to do to correct that from happening again, 16 which is the EFTPS payments, and they're going to like that 17 because that is their system that we're going to start using. 18 And with the confirmation that shows that we -- weren't malice 19 in trying to do anything; that we tried to send it, and it has 20 the 5-31 date on the attachment that I'm sending that shows 21 that we, you know, did try. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, we're -- our appeal is 23 that we made a good-faith effort? 24 MS. NEMEC: Right. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And we're sorry that they 11-13-06 91 1 didn't get their money, and we hope they give us another 2 chance? 3 MS. NEMEC: Right. We weren't just negligent and 4 just didn't do it. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Did the representative of I.R.S. last 6 week give you any ballpark estimate of the likelihood of 7 success of the appeal? 8 MS. NEMEC: Do you remember, Eva, what she said? 9 MS. HYDE: It wasn't positive. The only positive 10 thing that she said was that we needed to pay quickly, because 11 the penalties and fines continue to accrue at 1 percent per 12 day, up to 25 percent. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Per month? 14 MS. HYDE: Per month. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How long has the I.R.S. had 16 this EFTPS system in place? 17 MS. NEMEC: I don't know. Who told me about this 18 was a C.P.A. that looked over this this weekend and helped me 19 with this letter, and she says she gets -- she's been writing 20 letters like this to I.R.S. for over 20 years, and getting her 21 clients' moneys -- penalties and interest dropped. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- are you sending the funds 23 with the letter? I guess is -- what from what Ms. Hyde said, 24 it seems that if that penalty and interest is accruing at a 25 daily rate, the funds should be sent immediately, and then 11-13-06 92 1 request a refund, rather than potentially lose more money. I 2 mean -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Or credit against future tax 4 obligations, either way. 5 MS. NEMEC: We can do that. That's why this is not 6 the final letter. That's -- I hadn't sent the letter 7 yesterday, just based upon -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would think -- I mean, I have 9 no idea, but I would think maybe they'd make -- be, I guess, 10 more inclined to review it if we sent the money in and then 11 done it. I don't know if this is -- that would have any 12 impact or not, but either way, I think we ought to send the 13 funds in that they say to stop the hemorrhage. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We haven't heard from the 15 Auditor on this one. 16 MR. TOMLINSON: I agree that we need to pay it, I 17 mean, A.S.A.P. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd probably recommend wire 19 transferring the funds, and send a copy of that with the 20 letter, as opposed to sending a check. 'Cause a check will 21 take another week, and a wire transfer will get there today. 22 Or -- or use the FT -- whatever that thing is called, FT -- 23 EFTPS, use that system if you can. And I would think you 24 probably can. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Any more questions for Ms. Nemec? 11-13-06 93 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I really do have one of the 2 Auditor. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Well, any more for Ms. Nemec? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have one for Ms. Nemec. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The EFTPS -- now, this is 7 boy-dummy talking here. Once you access that system and 8 you're going to transfer the money to them today or tomorrow 9 through this, how is -- how is the bank put in -- how is our 10 local bank put in that loop? 11 MS. NEMEC: What I need to do is call the I.R.S. and 12 set up -- set this up with them. And I need to give them our 13 routing number with the bank's routing number and our account 14 number, and they will draft on the bank for -- and they'll do 15 that every pay period from now on. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, you don't -- you don't 17 have any -- you won't have any contact with -- directly with 18 the bank from -- 19 MS. NEMEC: No, it will be directly with I.R.S. from 20 now on, and they'll give me a confirmation number. As soon as 21 I call in the amount of taxes, they'll give me a confirmation 22 number, and from there, it's up to them to get their money 23 from the bank. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do we need -- as the penalty and 25 interest, the 12,000-plus is not a budgeted item, do they not 11-13-06 94 1 need a -- does not the Court need to authorize that 2 expenditure, Tommy? I make a motion that we direct the 3 Treasurer and/or Auditor, whoever needs to get this done, to 4 transmit the funds -- the penalty funds -- penalty and 5 interest funds due in this matter today to the I.R.S. to stop 6 additional penalty and interest from accruing. And those 7 funds would come out of our -- Tommy can find what account it 8 can come out of. Tommy? 9 MR. TOMLINSON: I would take it from the Contingency 10 account in Nondepartmental. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's my motion. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And I'll second that, but I 13 got a question. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Question? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, the basic amount is 16 $90,431; is that correct? 17 MS. NEMEC: Yes, sir. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then the interest and 19 penalty is on that 90,000? 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: No, it's on the penalty. The penalty 22 is $11,000 or $12,000, but it continues to accrue on that 23 penalty amount. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can we have for the record again 11-13-06 95 1 the exact amount that's transferred? 2 MS. NEMEC: I'm looking for it, yes, sir. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's where I was going. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Since it's growing every 5 day, we probably don't know the exact amount. 6 MS. NEMEC: Yeah. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But we can get close. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm a little bit disappointed 10 that the 90,000 hasn't been sent. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It has. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It has? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Two weeks late. 14 MS. NEMEC: It was sent June the 22nd, when the 15 Auditor made us aware of that. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, thank you. 17 MS. NEMEC: 12,650.97. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 12,650.97? 19 MS. NEMEC: Yes, sir. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What was that date through? 21 MS. NEMEC: June the 6th -- I mean -- I'm sorry, 22 November the 6th. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Today's the 13th. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, there would be an additional 25 amount on top of that, but at least it will stop the major -- 11-13-06 96 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: $13,000. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or discussion on 3 the motion? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just one -- 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I've got a question for the 6 County Treasurer. 7 MS. NEMEC: Yes, sir? 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It occurs to me that the 9 last couple years, we've -- we've periodically spent time 10 dealing with errors made in the Treasurer's office, and -- and 11 an inordinate amount of time. And I'm also aware that those 12 errors go back to at least 2002. I've -- I'm about to lose 13 hope that anything's going to change. What's it going to take 14 to stop the errors being made in the Treasurer office? 15 MS. NEMEC: I'm going to start handling it from now 16 on, sir. I was delegating. That's all I can say. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: My question really doesn't 18 deal with this motion; it deals with after we've done this. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I guess the question I have 20 is, when did we receive notice on this? 21 MS. NEMEC: The letter was dated November the 6th, 22 and I actually received it, like, November 3rd or 4th, before 23 it was dated. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, so it's been fairly 25 recent. Okay, thank you. 11-13-06 97 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments on 2 the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 3 your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Ms. Hyde, 8 Ms. Magenheimer, you all were involved in that particular 9 incident in San Antonio that's the subject of the agenda item. 10 Is there anything either one of you wish to offer in 11 connection with that? 12 MS. HYDE: Yes. I'll make this real quick. When we 13 were in the office, I asked a couple of questions as well of 14 the agent. This is pretty serious, and I knew that you would 15 want additional questions asked, so I asked who, what, when, 16 where, why, and how, as far as what do we need to do? Why do 17 we need to do it? And what would be the best thing going 18 forward? The agent responded, not only do we need to send the 19 full letter back showing the documentation; we need to have a 20 letter requesting abatement. We need to show that we've never 21 filed late before or had any problems, and to possibly use the 22 new system as an excuse, the new system being the new computer 23 system. She said that sometimes that has helped. She also 24 said that in the future, if we had any other questions, we 25 could call 1-800-829-1040, and we can request a transcript of 11-13-06 98 1 our account back as far as we want. So, if we call that, we 2 can say we want four quarters at a time, hang up and call 3 again. So that if we want to go and ask for the Auditor to 4 help us to look at what have we done? What have we not done? 5 Is there anything else out there? We can have a basis or a 6 foundation going forward to clean everything up, just in case. 7 So, she also gave me -- and I didn't make copies of this -- 8 all the I.R.S. transaction codes that appear on the 9 transcripts, so that the Auditor and the Treasurer can read 10 it. He said that will be the biggest problem; we won't be 11 able to read the report without these. It will also have in 12 the file a person that they can contact to help them with 13 reading the files going forward. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Have you reviewed the letter 15 from the Treasurer? 16 MS. HYDE: Yes, I have. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Does it satisfy the request of 18 the agent, in your mind? You mentioned the word "abatement," 19 and I don't see the word "abatement." 20 MS. HYDE: Well, to be quite honest, I had to ask 21 the County Attorney this morning what the difference between 22 an abatement and an appeal was to make sure that I was clear, 23 and I'm going to ask the County Attorney to tell us what those 24 are one more time. Thank you, Mr. Emerson. 25 MR. EMERSON: As this Court's aware, I think an 11-13-06 99 1 appeal is basically your -- you want to second-guess the 2 opinion of the lower authority, and you'd like a higher 3 authority to look at it, possibly reverse the decision. The 4 abatement is to basically cease and desist; you want it to 5 stop as-is and be wiped out. So -- 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Which is one and the same as waived? 7 MR. EMERSON: Correct. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So -- 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I appreciate your 10 report. You have more to add to it, I can tell. 11 MS. HYDE: Well, I wanted to finish answering 12 Commissioner Letz' question, and that is, I think that the 13 documentation, Barbara, that you took -- you know, that big 14 pile of stuff that you took, I think that that would also 15 help. She had a lot more documentation showing print 16 screens -- multiple print screens of what they attempted to 17 do, and I think that that documentation and the letter that 18 the lady explained to us, you know, your letter that you got, 19 make sure that she puts all that -- that documentation in 20 there, and I think that -- that would fulfill what she was 21 telling us to do. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, my question to -- 24 really is directed to Mr. Tomlinson. Have we talked 25 sufficiently today, and are we taking the necessary steps to 11-13-06 100 1 avoid a repetition of this with the bank? 2 MR. TOMLINSON: I think this is -- I think the 3 payment method that was described, I mean, through the I.R.S. 4 is probably -- in my mind, is the best way to handle the 5 payment. I mean, if you have someone draft on an account, 6 that's a safe way to make sure that it gets done. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Magenheimer, did you have 9 anything you wish to offer in addition to what's been 10 indicated here today? You were also present during this 11 incident that's made the subject of the agenda. 12 MS. MAGENHEIMER: I really felt like it was a wasted 13 trip, because they really could not help. I mean, she -- the 14 agent -- as Eva said, we needed to talk to the people in 15 Ogden, Utah. So I felt like it was a wasted trip. We really 16 didn't get any satisfaction about the concern as to why we 17 were there. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, thank you. Anything else from 19 anybody else in the Court here? Let's move -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Did we vote? Did we vote on it? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm sorry. Yeah, we voted on -- on 22 the payment of the penalty and interest. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, I remembered that. Let's go to 25 Item 10; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action for 11-13-06 101 1 the final revision of plat for Lots 17A and 16, Cypress 2 Springs Estates, Phase I, as set forth in Volume 7, Page 12, 3 Plat Records, and located in Precinct 4. 4 MR. ODOM: Good morning. I think you can solve the 5 problem with the money, taking it out of the County Surveyor's 6 budget line item. 7 MR. VOELKEL: Wait. Wait. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree, salary. 9 MR. ODOM: Salary, as well as the budget. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I move to approve the 11 revision of plat for Lots 17A and 16, Cypress Springs Estates, 12 Phase I, Volume 7, Page 12, in Precinct 4. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 15 of the agenda item. Any question or discussion? All in favor 16 of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 17 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's move 21 to Item 12; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 22 consider final revision for plat of Wood Trails Ranch, Lots 23 43B and 46, as set forth in Volume 4, Page 98, and Volume 5, 24 Page 140, Plat Records, and located also in Precinct 4. 25 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. This alternate plat will take 11-13-06 102 1 2 acres and .45 of an acre of land from the 25.596 acres 2 outside the subdivision to enlarge Lot 46 and 43, Wood Trails 3 Ranch, making 43B-R, 1.46 acres, and Lot 46R, 10.35 acres. 4 There is also -- in relation to the lady's comment there in 5 the public hearing, that this will not be separate; they're 6 combining into these two lots. This meets all the 7 requirements of the Kerr County Subdivision, so at this time, 8 we ask that you approve the revision as presented. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move to approve. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 12 of the agenda item. Any question or discussion? All in favor 13 of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's move 18 to Item 14; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action for 19 road name changes and regulatory signs in various locations. 20 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. Well, before you, you have 21 that list of what we sent to the newspaper, and these are the 22 speed limits. We have speed limit changes and name changes. 23 If you have any questions, I'll be more than happy to try to 24 answer them. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval. 11-13-06 103 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 3 of the agenda item. Any question or discussion? 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I might have a question. 5 The reason for changing Arlitt Ranch Road to Burr Oak Road is 6 owner's discretion. That means the owner has requested a name 7 change? 8 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir, Mr. Nicholson. Buddy Henderson 9 did. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Are the Hendersons the only 11 ones that live on that road? 12 MR. ODOM: No, sir, there are other people back 13 there. I can't remember -- at the very end, and there may -- 14 may be one in the middle there. But Buddy has that place in 15 between -- had two places. I don't know if he bought the 16 Arlitt place up front there. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 18 MR. ODOM: As well as his original place there. 19 Probably three people. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there any specific notice 21 given to these people about a road name change? I mean, those 22 that -- 23 MR. ODOM: In the paper. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Newspaper? 25 MR. ODOM: Newspaper, sir. 11-13-06 104 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't -- I don't know of 2 any reason to be concerned; I don't have any specific 3 knowledge of anybody to be concerned about it, but I just 4 wondered about it. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess this is kind of a 6 general question. I mean, a lot of them are for 911 reasons, 7 but -- and I don't know this situation. In fact, I wouldn't 8 have even looked at it if you hadn't said something, but it is 9 impacting more than one person, more than one family. They're 10 going to have to change their addresses. And the reality is, 11 legally, I think we posted the proper notice, but at the same 12 time, I think from a common courtesy standpoint, I hate to 13 change someone's road name. 14 MR. ODOM: Procedure? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Hate to change their -- make 16 them get a new mailing address because one person wants to. I 17 mean, I would be kind of upset if someone on Lane Valley or 18 any other road wanted to change it and changed it, and, you 19 know, I just missed it 'cause it wasn't reading the newspaper. 20 Which I -- 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: They have -- the owners may 22 know about it, be in agreement with it, but I don't know that. 23 So -- 24 MR. ODOM: Mathis lives at the end; that name came 25 to me, and there was another gentleman, but he was from -- 11-13-06 105 1 from Houston. Was an insurance salesman, I believe. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 3 MR. ODOM: Buddy and Arlitts. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's change it, then. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Let's change it. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. If it's not good, 7 we'll hear about it. 8 MR. ODOM: I know that we followed the procedure 9 when the request was put in. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I didn't have any questions 11 about that. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I know there's been an Arlitt 13 Ranch Road for centuries and centuries that I've been here. 14 And I -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Didn't realize you've been here that 16 long. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And I 18 wondered about the change. And I had those same questions in 19 my mind, but I -- I just couldn't imagine Buddy trying to do 20 something out of line. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't think so, no. I 22 think probably what we'd find is that the Arlitts are out of 23 the picture. 24 MR. ODOM: They are out of picture. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, they're changing the 11-13-06 106 1 name. 2 MR. ODOM: Arlitts sold it to the -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hendersons. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments? All 5 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's move to 10 Item 15; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action for 11 final plat of T-H Acres located in Precinct 4. 12 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. Previously, the Court approved 13 a concept for the plat on October the 23rd of '06. Therefore, 14 we request that you approve the final plat of T-H Acres as 15 presented. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move to approve. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 19 of the agenda item. Any question or discussion? All in favor 20 of the motion signify by raising your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's move to 25 Item 16; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action for 11-13-06 107 1 revision of Lots 5 and 6 of Cypress Springs, Phase I, as set 2 forth in Volume 7, Page 12, Plat Records, and set a public 3 hearing, such property being located in Precinct 4. 4 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. This revision is being done 5 under the alternate plat process and will combine Lots 5 and 6 6, making one lot, 5R, 4.69 acres. At this time, we ask that 7 you set a public hearing for December the 27th, 2006 -- I 8 would like to change what I have at 10:00 to 10:10 a.m. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you a question on 10 the -- on that date. Are we sure we want to pile up that 11 date -- meeting date with a bunch of these kind of things? 12 Historically, the Court comes in and pays the bills and gets 13 up and leaves, as opposed to sitting here all day dealing with 14 plats and -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Are you concerned the Grinch is going 16 to come see you if you spend too much time here? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I hadn't thought about the 18 Grinch, but since -- I'm glad you brought it up. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What's at issue? What date 20 is it? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The 27th. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: December 27th. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And the reason that day is 24 set is, historically -- the Auditor's gone; he's not going to 25 back me up -- is that we come in and pay the bills. 11-13-06 108 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'll probably take comp 2 time that day anyhow, so... (Laughter.) 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there a reason it can't be 5 pushed into January? Other than -- 6 MR. ODOM: Well, Mr. Voelkel, is there a reason why 7 we can't put it over to the first meeting in January? 8 MR. VOELKEL: I don't think that would be a problem. 9 Either one of the ones coming up, I don't think that's a 10 problem. 11 MR. ODOM: I don't know what that date is. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: First date in January will 13 be -- will be the 8th. 14 MR. ODOM: January the 8th, 2007, at say 10 o'clock? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We didn't set anything else 16 on that date this morning, did we? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not yet. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's don't -- 19 JUDGE TINLEY: 10 o'clock on this one? 20 MR. ODOM: 10 o'clock. 21 MR. VOELKEL: What was that date, Mr. Odom? 22 MR. ODOM: January the 8th, 2007, at 10 o'clock. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion to that effect? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 11-13-06 109 1 JUDGE TINLEY: We now do. I have a motion to set a 2 public hearing for January 8, 2007, 10 a.m. Any question or 3 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 4 your right hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's move to 9 Item 17. Consider, discuss, and take appropriate action for 10 revision of plat for Lots 16 and 17 of Bear Creek Ranch 11 Estates as set forth in Volume 3, Page 75, and set a public 12 hearing for same. 13 MR. ODOM: This is a family division of property, 14 exempt from platting under 1.03B of Kerr County Subdivision 15 Rules. However, the owners have decided to file it under the 16 alternate plat process. They're dividing two lots into three, 17 making Lot 16A, B, and C. Each lot is over 3 acres and will 18 share a water system that originates on Lot 15, also owned by 19 a family member. At this time, we ask that you set a public 20 hearing for January the -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: 8th. 22 MR. ODOM: -- 8th, 2007, at 10:10 a.m. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move that we approve this, 24 and I have a comment to make when we get a second. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: The public hearing? 11-13-06 110 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll second it. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and second for the 4 agenda item, to set a public hearing for 10:10 a.m. on 5 January 8, '07. Any question or discussion? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just wanted to make a 7 comment. This particular area is formerly a junkyard that 8 Kerr County Environmental Health Department had removed, and 9 it's now a family living area. Kind of proud of that. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The question I have is for the 11 County Attorney. We are -- we may be changing our Subdivision 12 Rules, in which case this plat will be not legal as of the 13 date of that public hearing. Is that a problem? 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 15 MR. EMERSON: Yeah. 16 MR. ODOM: But if we have this on record prior to 17 being finalized, because the direction that -- that we 18 received -- well, that I received was that until it is 19 changed, and you go through that precedence of trying to set 20 -- we knew that there would be a change. We didn't know when. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 22 MR. ODOM: And that if it's prior to, that we would 23 accept it, because we're posting it now, prior to any change. 24 And it is legal at this point to do this. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What are the -- 11-13-06 111 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are you comfortable with that? 2 MR. EMERSON: I think that's a policy decision for 3 y'all. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't have a problem. The 5 change will be that to qualify as a public or community water 6 system, it'll have to be licensed by T.C.E.Q. These little 7 family ones will no longer be acceptable. We've had multiple 8 people trying to get around it. As a policy standpoint, I 9 don't have a problem with doing this one now and -- and going 10 forward. I just wanted to point out that this is about -- I 11 think it can be changed based on what we had last -- or a 12 couple meetings ago. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And the flip side of that is 14 that if we approve a family issue today, and then turn around 15 and tell them no later in January, I don't want to be sitting 16 here being a part of that. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. And, I mean, I think the 18 other reason to do it is they're not required to do this. 19 They can do this whether we want them to or not. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's correct. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And they're just trying to keep 22 the record straight. 23 MR. ODOM: Keep the record straight. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We appreciate that. So that 25 would even be -- even be more -- 11-13-06 112 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We asked the family to get 2 legal documents about this water system thing crossing other 3 property lines and all that. So -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, I mean, I don't have a 5 problem. I just wanted to bring it up. Rex says -- County 6 Attorney says this is a policy issue; therefore, I think the 7 policy can be that we do it. 8 MR. VOELKEL: I just wanted to comment on 9 Commissioner Baldwin's statement about -- they have hired a 10 local attorney. Mark Andrews is preparing the paperwork 11 for -- agreements for the water system. That's not required, 12 but at the meeting we had with Mr. Odom and the Commissioner, 13 they agreed to do that. We will also bring that document 14 prior to this public hearing just for y'all to review, to see 15 how it's being written. But I suggested that along with 16 Mr. Odom. I think it's an excellent request, and they are 17 carrying through with that. 18 MR. ODOM: We'll make sure they have water 19 available. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mr. Odom, when this comes before 21 us on the 8th, you might just make sure -- we might make a 22 note in that motion that this was -- 23 MR. ODOM: Contingent on that? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, it was done prior to the 25 change. 11-13-06 113 1 MR. ODOM: Oh, okay. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're pretty strong in that 4 this thing's going to change, huh? That Subdivision 5 Regulations will change before then, huh? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, y'all -- y'all verbally 7 directed -- behind these purple tabs, we have the revised 8 version. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I couldn't care less what 10 happened before today. It could change, believe me. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Requiring people to deal 12 with T.C.E.Q. is pretty onerous. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, it is. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments on 15 the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 16 your right hand. 17 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Now that we've considered down 21 through Item 21, let's go to 22; consider, discuss, and -- 22 Sheriff, I called those items, and you weren't -- 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, no, no, no. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's talk about 18, if we 25 might. Consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 11-13-06 114 1 consider lease of two maintainers and one loader. 2 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Road and Bridge Department. 4 MR. ODOM: We have three pieces of leased equipment 5 that we acquired on a five-year contract. They were bid at 6 the same time; however, the delivery dates and contracts were 7 staggered, and they will expire different times in December, 8 February, and March. We would like permission from the Court 9 to proceed with acquiring leases for three new pieces before 10 the new prices go into effect in January. We would take 11 delivery of the grader that is due in December and wait on 12 delivery of the other two until the old lease expires. These 13 pieces of equipment are available through cooperative 14 purchasing and can be leased, just as we've done in the past. 15 So, we are working with -- I have legal -- I haven't talked to 16 Rex at this point, but I have talked to the Auditor on 17 acquiring these leases in the most cost-effective ways. So, 18 as I get that information and look at it, I will get with 19 legal to make sure that everything is kosher. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: On existing leases, do you have a 21 purchase option on these? 22 MR. ODOM: I think maybe one that I do -- well, I do 23 have options to extend the lease, and that's one thing that 24 I'm looking at. And I believe that I do have -- I could 25 purchase them, and that's something I want to look at and see 11-13-06 115 1 what the amortization is, if I couldn't hold, because the 2 increase is going to be substantial. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: I assume you've kept the equipment in 4 good order and -- 5 MR. ODOM: Very good order. And I'm looking at that 6 option, but I will get with the Court. I will look at the 7 amortization and whether I couldn't stay pretty close to what 8 I'm paying right now if we purchase those pieces of equipment. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: So, what you're asking for the 10 Court's permission for today is to try and do this at 11 pre-January 1, '07 pricing schedules? 12 MR. ODOM: That's right. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: These are all budgeted items? 14 MR. ODOM: These are budgeted items. I do have 15 money in there; however, I don't -- it's like everything else. 16 That dart wasn't close enough, I don't think, to some of this. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: These are not subject to bid 18 process? 19 MR. ODOM: If -- if we purchase something, we could 20 exercise the option that we've got an agreement. I believe 21 that I can. If I did it a lease-type deal, I could make a 22 substantial off H.G.A.C., TexDOT, things like that. We could 23 purchase, and then have financial finance it. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They actually have -- H.G.A.C. 25 actually has state bid on most of those items. 11-13-06 116 1 MR. ODOM: That's right. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And that prevents you having to 3 go through -- 4 MR. ODOM: So I don't need to go through formal bid 5 out there. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, that's fine. 7 MR. ODOM: I'd like to stay within parameters of 8 what I have for inventory for maintenance and stuff like that. 9 So, we may be able to purchase; I don't know. Those are some 10 options that I bring the Court. But I wanted to bring it to 11 you and say here's what I'd like to do; give me permission to 12 go out for a lease, or purchase maybe, if I can finance it 13 properly. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Are you going to bring those -- 15 MR. ODOM: I will bring them to you. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: -- arrangements back to us? 17 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Looking for a motion. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and second for 24 approval of the agenda item. Any question or discussion? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why do we need a motion? We're 11-13-06 117 1 not doing anything. 2 MR. ODOM: Well, the -- 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We're moving the money up 4 into this year's, as opposed -- 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, we are. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's budgeted. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's budgeted. I mean, to 8 me, it's more a direction. 9 MR. ODOM: More direction. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: You don't need a formal order from 11 the Court? 12 MR. ODOM: I don't think so, other than I want it 13 officially on record that I've asked permission to do this. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 15 MR. ODOM: And y'all wouldn't be surprised when I 16 come in with it. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, hold on a second. Are 18 you okay with that, Mr. County Attorney? 19 MR. EMERSON: I think I'm lost somewhere in here, 20 whether we're purchasing, leasing, or -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: We don't know. 22 MR. ODOM: We don't know. We're going to look at 23 the most financial -- best aspect that we can get. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He's just advising us that he 25 wants to look at various options. 11-13-06 118 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The money's been budgeted. 2 Go buy it. See you. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I withdraw the motion. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or lease it or whatever. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Someone's got to sign. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: He's going to bring any formal 7 transaction back to us for final approval anyway, so it 8 doesn't make any difference. Okay, let's move to Item 19; 9 consider, discuss, take appropriate action to set public 10 hearing for revision of plat for Lots 124B and 131A of Falling 11 Water, as set forth in Volume 7, Page 52, Plat Records. 12 MR. ODOM: For the record, that's Precinct 3. That 13 was left off. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They just do them and then undo 16 them again. 17 MR. ODOM: Now, I am sorry. I looked at this this 18 morning; I thought she had it in. But I don't know if she 19 gave you a copy of what I've -- of the revision. But the 20 owners would like to combine two lots into one under the 21 alternate plat process. This meets all the requirements of 22 Kerr County Subdivision Rules, and we ask at this time to set 23 a public hearing for January the 8th, 2007, at 10:15 -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 25 MR. ODOM: -- a.m. 11-13-06 119 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to set a 3 public hearing on the agenda item for January 8, 2007, at 4 10:15 a.m. Any question or discussion? All in favor of the 5 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Now do we go 10 to 22? Item 20, consider discuss, and take appropriate action 11 regarding application for grant for Peterson Foundation to 12 purchase a new Live Scan Fingerprint System. Before you get 13 started, Sheriff, if you go past 12:00, lunch is on you. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I can make it real short. The 15 whole backup's in your packet. (Laughter.) 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You're not going to like 17 the lunch over at the jail. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's right. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Probably not. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's called quality control. 21 You need to eat over there once in a while. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I talked to a couple of 23 buddies of mine over the weekend around the state and asked 24 them about this thing, and everybody's saying that this is the 25 state of the art. 11-13-06 120 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No ands, ifs, or buts. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Pretty neat if we get it funded. 3 I'm in favor of it. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I am too. I'm in favor of 5 Rusty going to Peterson Foundation to get a grant. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: That's a motion? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It was. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 10 of the agenda item. Any questions or discussion? All in 11 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's go to 16 Item 21; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action 17 regarding approval of a new telecommunications equipment lease 18 with Windstream Communications. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You have a copy of the lease 20 agreement with you. It's one that has been worked for quite a 21 while. I know it's been talked about at different times 22 whether to do the entire courthouse under one -- or entire 23 county, or just ours. I need to get moved on -- moving 24 forward with our system. We do have the problems with not 25 enough lines and busy signals, and this has gone to the Court 11-13-06 121 1 two or three times. I spoke to Curtis again this morning. 2 Whether you do it this way or whether you do it all as one 3 won't change the bottom line price to the County, 'cause the 4 equipment's different and set-up's different. He said it 5 wouldn't have any effect on it. Number two is, I did have 6 added in under the indemnity clause, "to the extent allowed by 7 law." They did change that contract, put that in there. But 8 Rex just pointed out one other one on Page 8 of the contract, 9 15.01, Parties' Expenses. Under that paragraph, he'd like to 10 see if they would also add the same thing. But it is under 11 the indemnity. I don't know if they'll go back and let us 12 hand-write that in there or if they will add that same thing 13 or not, but -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tell me what you're talking 15 about. 15.01? 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Page 8, 15.01, where it says 17 "Parties' Expenses." Lessee shall pay -- you can read the 18 paragraph, but right at the end, Rex suggested a little while 19 ago that we also have them put that in there, "to the extent 20 allowed by law." 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Those words, "to the extent 22 allowed by law"? 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's correct. Same words we 24 added at the end of the indemnity deal. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You have funds in your budget to 11-13-06 122 1 cover this? 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. In reality, this -- 3 the -- even though there's a couple other pages for the 4 agreement of communications services and the maintenance 5 schedule, all those figures that are on those two separate 6 little agreements are figured into the bottom line price on 7 Exhibit A of the original agreement. The 583.02 is the cost, 8 and currently ours is 640-something or 680-something, so this 9 is actually going down over the lease period, not going up. 10 And Curtis did tell me he is working on the one for the entire 11 courthouse for y'all. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move approval of it -- of the 13 agreement with Windstream for telecommunications equipment, 14 Sheriff's Department, with the addition of language on 15.01. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And if they do not add that 16 additional language, is there any guidance on that one 17 paragraph? Is there any guidance from the Court on what I 18 should do? 'Cause I don't know. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Don't sign it. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Don't sign it. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's not me. It's going to be 22 you, Judge. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: I ain't going to sign it. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And authorize the County Judge 25 to same -- sign same. 11-13-06 123 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Oh, and on the other grant, I 2 do need the authorization -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: On the grant, I need the Judge 5 to sign that. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Any 7 question or discussion on the motion? Mr. Trolinger, have 8 you reviewed the enclosed equipment, on the telephone -- 9 MR. TROLINGER: No, sir. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: -- equipment? 11 MR. TROLINGER: No, sir, but it's been since June 12 that this has been going on, and I know I did look at -- at 13 that time, I looked into it, the scope of it. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: And this is adequate for his needs 15 out there, plus it gives some expansion capability? 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I can answer that. It 17 definitely does. 18 MR. TROLINGER: It did in June. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. It adds a whole 'nother 20 module, a lot more lines, and up to 24 more e-mails. It 21 expands that whole system at the same time. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any other questions or 23 comments? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your 24 right hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11-13-06 124 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's move 4 to Item 22. Commissioner Williams, you had mentioned to me 5 that that item probably needed to be passed? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We'll just withdraw that. 7 Mr. Weinberg's had a change of heart since he -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- since he learned he only 10 has to go to five meetings next year instead of 12. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh my gosh. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: He can fit that into his schedule, 13 huh? Great. Let's go to Item 23; consider, discuss and take 14 appropriate action to adopt a resolution opposing state 15 legislation that would impose revenue and appraisal caps 16 and/or un -- I assume that means unfunded mandates? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir, that's what it 18 means. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: On Texas counties and cities. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I placed this on the agenda, 21 Judge, because we're getting to that time when the Legislature 22 is about to reconvene, and the governor has a task force out 23 and about the state whose appearance most recently was in San 24 Antonio last Friday, taking testimony, which this task force 25 commission is going to recommend certain aspects of 11-13-06 125 1 legislation regarding these two items. It appears that we're 2 going to be faced with the same legislative concerns and 3 battles that we faced two years ago with respect to these caps 4 that are being proposed by the governor. And it was my 5 thought that perhaps we'd like to be on record as not being in 6 favor of it, and let our legislators know that. That's the 7 purpose of the resolution. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, when we talk about 9 capping the appraisals, through the years, government entities 10 in this county -- county and city and other agencies have 11 basically lived on the increase in appraisals. And because of 12 the increase in appraisals, we haven't had to raise taxes 13 because of that increase. And now that there's a tax freeze 14 in both city and county, the legislators now want to come 15 along and cap that appraisal. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's right. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They -- that doesn't appear 18 to be a real friendly move, to me, toward local government at 19 all. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It truly is not, 21 Commissioner. It is a very unfriendly move, and it's the 22 same -- it's the same repeat of what the governor attempted to 23 do two years ago, capping the ability of county -- revenue 24 streams that the county government or any local government 25 relies on to perform the services that are required of us to 11-13-06 126 1 do. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Correct. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And so if we put these caps 4 on, and then you lay on the tax freeze, which the Court's 5 already done and the City is now going to have to do, there's 6 going to be a lot of ratcheting down. And it seems to me to 7 be an improper attack on the appraisal system. The appraisal 8 system was set up by the state Legislature to appraise 9 properties within 5 percent of market value, so I don't know 10 how you're going to reconcile that law, which has been on the 11 books since Hector was a pup, with caps that somebody's trying 12 to impose on top of. So, it just seems to me we ought to be 13 on record as not being in favor of that. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then you have the tax 15 freeze, and now we're talking about appraisal caps, plus all 16 of those things they send down here, the -- the things that 17 Rusty talks about at his jail as an example, the taking care 18 of these people. The State says you shall take care of these 19 people in a certain way, but they don't send any money down 20 here for us to do that; we have to scurry around. It just 21 seems awful unfair, and I'm going to make a point here that 22 our State Representative is major in favor of this kind of -- 23 of appraisal caps. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: He is? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 11-13-06 127 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, he is. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: How about our senator? Do 3 we know about that? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Senator? Who is that? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Fraser. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, yeah, he will be. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Did they notice the -- the 8 governor didn't get six out of ten votes in the last election? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't think it has anything 10 to do with that any more. I think it has to do with 11 appointments and being friends and -- and being able to have 12 lunch with so-and-so and so-and-so nowadays. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm surprised at 14 particularly Harvey, but also Fraser. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The -- I don't know that 16 about Fraser, but just watching his background, he probably 17 really likes this stuff. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Now, what you've just said 19 is -- is quite true in terms of the whole -- in the context of 20 the whole picture; that if you look at the Q and A that was 21 provided to us by our Texas Association of Counties General 22 Counsel, 50 percent of the county budget is used for jails and 23 law enforcement. 65 percent of county budgets are used for 24 State-required services. This is the point you're trying to 25 make, Commissioner. And the largest local optional 11-13-06 128 1 expenditure that we have anything to do with, really, aside 2 from mandates, is roads and transportation, and we fund that 3 through variable sources. Counties collect 14 percent of the 4 taxes -- of property taxes. Cities collect 15 percent. 5 School districts collect 60 percent. Special districts 6 collect 11. But yet counties and cities are getting hammered 7 with this type of legislation. Doesn't make any sense. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's a feel-good 9 legislation for those legislators so that they can go to the 10 people that elected them and say, "I've lowered your taxes," 11 and they don't have to deal with the consequences of that 12 decision. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's true. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I guess that's right. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Of course, ad valorem tax is 16 the most unfair tax in existence today, and they all know 17 that. They know that the ad valorem taxes is goofy. But why 18 don't they fix the system? Why don't they fix it? I don't 19 have an answer for them. Unless it's sales tax or -- 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: State income tax. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- a flat income tax or a 22 flat tax. Or, you know, there's got to be something to do 23 with that. But as opposed to rolling up their sleeves and 24 fixing the problem, they send this crap. And I've just 25 about -- 11-13-06 129 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: About had it? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've just about had it. I 3 went on the radio a couple weeks ago, and I called Harvey and 4 told him to listen, 'cause I was going to get on him. This is 5 coming down the pike, so I'm on him. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree totally. They need to 7 fix the problem, not pass the buck. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, they need to fix it. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree. I move the 10 adoption of the resolution. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for adoption 13 of the resolution as indicated by the agenda item. Any 14 further question or discussion on the motion? All in favor of 15 the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I will also do an article in 21 the state magazine coming up soon. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You will? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's good. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You have power these days. 11-13-06 130 1 You're a -- 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm a big shot. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're a big shot. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Of course, I can't spell big 5 shot, but -- 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But I are one? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But I are one. (Laughter.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move to Item 24; consider, 9 discuss, and approve revised Subdivision Rules and Regulations 10 and set a public hearing for the same. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, are we going to work 12 until we're done, or are we going to go to lunch? I have no 13 preference. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why don't we work through 15 and get it done? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Commissioner Letz, I want to 17 ask you about one of the conversations that we had a few 18 minutes ago in regards to family water systems and -- and is 19 that in here? That is no longer going to be allowed? That 20 there has to be -- I've been sitting here thinking about that 21 ever since you said that. What does -- what does that 22 accomplish, once we say to a family that you can't share water 23 with your brother next door? What are we trying to accomplish 24 with that? And let me finish here. The -- it seems to me -- 25 it seems to me that the Headwaters Underground Water District 11-13-06 131 1 is heading off into la-la land to me, as far as I'm concerned. 2 And the lady was here just a few minutes ago, and I'm -- I'm 3 sorry she's not still here. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Was that her? 5 AUDIENCE: Yes, it was. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The lady -- the new board 7 member. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let's call her back so she 9 can hear what we have to say. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It just seems like to me that 11 they're getting out in left field with some of their thinking. 12 And I'm wondering how this is going to -- how this is going to 13 play into -- into their game. If we -- if we tell a relative 14 that they can't provide water, so that's going to require 15 somebody -- all of these four lots or whatever in this 16 specific issue a while ago, they have to provide their own 17 water well. And here you're only talking a few acres. What 18 is Headwaters going to require, and how -- how will this thing 19 play into their la-la-ville direction? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Two questions. Well, let me 21 answer two ways. One, if it's a family -- truly a family, 22 they're exempt by law from platting, so they have nothing -- 23 this doesn't affect them one way or the other. They can do 24 whatever they want. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That was good, Judge. 11-13-06 132 1 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the response. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let the record show... 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- I think -- but for the 5 non-family ones -- and the family ones, I have absolutely no 6 problem with them doing it. What has happened, we've had 7 several come through us of people trying to get around the 8 platting requirement, and -- or lot size requirement, and 9 putting these non-family real small agreements -- well use 10 agreements together, and they end up having problems lots of 11 times, I think, as you and I both know. I mean, working -- 12 you know, a well goes down, then they put -- I think Bill had 13 one in his district; a constituent said they were -- one 14 wanted to cut off the other one, and then they ended up in a 15 lawsuit over it. I think that happens quite a bit on these 16 type of -- 'cause there's really no formal agreement. And 17 this would just, I think, eliminate that happening. There are 18 very few true water systems that are not T.C.E.Q. and 19 non-family really around any more. And the few that have 20 come -- I think we've had three come before the Court this 21 year that were really just trying to circumvent the rules. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: T.C.E.Q.'s threshold is 16 23 or more connections? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's 15, 15 or more. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 15? 11-13-06 133 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: But we're going to be more 2 restrictive than that. We're going to say if it's two or 3 three, you've got to go get a T.C.E.Q. license? They're 4 really hard to deal with. You know, they're not -- the 5 individuals are not hard to deal with; the regulations are 6 hard to deal with. It drives your costs up a lot. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Let's go through them, and we 8 can see -- and, you know, we can hopefully make a decision 9 today. The changes are not that many. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Most of them we talked about 12 last time. Page 14, the changes are all highlighted in gray, 13 or shaded in gray. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Take out "drinking"? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, no. Drinking, that's -- 16 this is the current language that's been changed. I had 17 potable drinking water. It's probably a little bit redundant. 18 Rather than just potable water, we used to say, but that -- 19 all that gray language has been added. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, you added the word 21 "drinking"? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I added the word "drinking." 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Potable doesn't mean 24 drinkable? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think it does, but I 11-13-06 134 1 think that -- I just decided to add it. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 14 -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just leave me alone, Buster. 4 The part that's -- the change is on, if you go to 5b, it 5 says -- the third part of that will now read, "The total 6 number of lots permitted in any subdivision that uses a 7 community or public water system licensed by T.C.E.Q." That's 8 saying that you've got to have a T.C.E.Q. licensed system to 9 get down to a -- less than 5 acres. Now, they can be more -- 10 they can be at 5 acres and still do a -- a handshake-type deal 11 if they want. Doesn't have any impact. Doesn't prohibit 12 them. It just says you're not going to get a smaller acreage 13 lot size. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, if you got lots that 15 are more -- 5 or more acres, this doesn't apply? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Hmm-mm. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay, that helps some. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And -- and part of the problem 19 was whether -- I don't know that we're -- you know, we're 20 currently in a situation where we -- if we allow this, the 21 people -- then we're allowing a plat to go through, and then 22 Headwaters won't give them a well permit. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's my question. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's my question. 11-13-06 135 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That does exist. That's not the 2 total reason for doing it, but there is a situation now that 3 exists where, under our rules as we currently have them, we 4 approve a lot, and Headwaters doesn't approve a well because 5 they don't do wells on -- the spacing isn't correct for them. 6 But that's not the -- you know, that's not my reasoning for 7 doing it. My reasoning is that I think people are 8 circumventing the rules and doing things, getting into a lot 9 of issues with not having agreements properly. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If that were to happen, what 11 you just said, -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mm-hmm. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- would that not be, in 14 effect, inverse condemnation of that person's property? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We'll have to ask the 16 attorney. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's -- well, I look at that 18 as a Headwaters issue. I don't think Headwaters really has 19 any authority to set lot sizes. They set well spacing and 20 pumping limits, in my opinion. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, I mean, that's -- you know, 23 but I don't know how Headwaters wants to interpret that. We 24 have worked fairly closely with Headwaters up to now. I 25 think, you know, hopefully we certainly will in the future as 11-13-06 136 1 to, you know, make -- try and have the same go together, our 2 lot sizes and their pumping limits and spacing requirements. 3 But, you know, I don't think that -- there's a benefit from 4 keeping that conflict -- from doing it, by making this change. 5 If we don't make this change, I think we need to make a 6 requirement that it can't just be a -- a handshake agreement. 7 I think there needs to be a real agreement, because I think it 8 causes some real problems. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, we've had those. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think it's a -- you know, 11 'cause -- and we used to have the word "shared well." There's 12 a -- "shared well" is what really caused the problem; that I 13 took out altogether. So, anyway, it's -- you know, I have no 14 strong feeling one way or the other on this. It was just a -- 15 we discussed it a couple weeks ago. I can rewrite it allowing 16 getting rid of it as strict as this is and reducing it to 17 making them at least have a -- a written agreement. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Will T.C.E.Q. license 19 situations less than 15? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They're not even a part of 22 the deal. The -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, they won't. But all 24 we're -- what we're saying is that if you're licensed, you get 25 to go to a 3 -- a 3-acre average lot size. 11-13-06 137 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're just saying that if you're 3 not licensed by T.C.E.Q., you're not getting -- you can have a 4 5-acre lot size. We're not saying you can't do it. We're 5 just saying you're going to have to have a 5-acre minimum lot 6 size. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And which -- let me say, and 9 what that does, it allows those people to easily get an 10 individual well if they want down the road. They're not 11 boxing themselves in by -- into that. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My concern is that if you 13 had -- if you had good neighbors and you have an agreement -- 14 a written legal document agreement on this providing water one 15 to another, I -- I just -- I have a hard time seeing where 16 that's any of my business as a government to tell them that 17 they can't do that. I struggle with that. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, it just goes into the -- 19 the -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 'Cause if it falls to 21 protecting the property -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, not protecting it. Just 23 goes into we're allowing a higher -- if you're on a community 24 water system, we allow a higher density. It's just a matter 25 of that, because of economics, and also water use and 11-13-06 138 1 penetrations into -- you know, things of that nature. So, we 2 give a -- our whole rules provide a -- I guess an incentive 3 being able to go to a smaller lot size if you go with central 4 water systems and central sewer systems. That's just part of 5 that. It's just -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just don't -- I understand 7 what you're saying, and I really don't have a fight with that. 8 I'm just -- my concern is -- is what we approve here, and we 9 say 3 acres or 5 acres or whatever the issue might be, and 10 then the people leave this room and go over to Headwaters to 11 make sure that they're going to have potable drinking water, 12 drinkable water, and Headwaters says no, no, no. You -- you 13 can't drill a well; your lot's too small. Then what -- I 14 mean, what happens there? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think it's -- I think 16 the County may be in a little bit of an awkward situation. If 17 we -- if we knowingly allow lots to be done that are in 18 conflict with other laws, I guess we're protected from the 19 standpoint we say you also have to follow all other laws, 20 including -- we specifically name Headwaters. I mean, I don't 21 know if -- you know, I would defer to Rex on that, if we have 22 any exposure if we knowingly allow -- but we're really 23 knowingly not allowing those lots because they have a shared 24 well agreement. They have an agreement that allows for one 25 well to serve more than one lot. So, we're -- I think we can 11-13-06 139 1 clearly do it. I think that our experience hasn't been real 2 good of them working real well, and if you think it''s none of 3 our business, I don't have a strong disagreement that it's 4 none of our business. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm just concerned about what 6 Headwaters is going to do down the road. I really have a 7 concern about that. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- well, I think that up 9 until now -- and I hope Headwaters will continue to look at 10 data coming from Region J and others, and do what they've been 11 doing. I mean, I don't -- I mean, up till now, they haven't 12 been unreasonable in giving well permits, so I don't know why 13 they would change, you know. But I've tried to write our 14 Subdivision Rules -- they have nothing to do with Headwaters. 15 I mean, other than fact that we listen to Headwaters when they 16 -- you know, certainly, I'm aware of what their rules are. I 17 think we try to make them mesh where we can. I think we've 18 been able to up till now. But, like I say, we deal with more 19 public safety issues, and because of water availability, the 20 Legislature gave counties the ability to set lot sizes. They 21 didn't give Headwaters the ability to set lot sizes. 22 Headwaters has authority to do pumping limits and well 23 spacing. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can you get that to me in 25 writing? I'm not sure they know that. That's my -- that's my 11-13-06 140 1 bottom line statement. I'm not sure they understand that they 2 can't set the size of a lot. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, that -- but that's not our 4 problem. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand. I understand. 6 But the person that comes in that's developing the property or 7 buying the property, he lives here; he's going to be in a 8 dilemma then. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They do it de facto by well 11 spacing. They don't come out and say, "We're going to have 12 Lots 2, 3, 4, 5-acre." They do it de facto. You got to have 13 "X" number of space between wells, so in effect, they've done 14 it. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Except that the problem coming 16 from Headwaters' standpoint is, lots -- well spacing works 17 fairly well in a perfect world of uniform size lots. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It doesn't work with our lots, 20 'cause we never get uniform size lots. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All of ours are odd-shaped, in 23 which case you start getting into a real issue. It's very 24 conceivable that you can have 6-acre lot sizes, and by well 25 spacing rules, not be able to put wells. 11-13-06 141 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Because you've got long, skinny, 3 and weird-shaped lots, and where -- I mean, where the first 4 person puts their house in a subdivision starts dictating 5 where all the other houses can be located. And you may not 6 have locations that are -- you know, with our terrain, that 7 you can do that. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And there's one member of 9 that board who lives in my precinct who just can't quite 10 understand that. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, but that's not our 12 problem. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I realize. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Anyway, maybe we ought to go on 15 through all the changes and see if all of them -- the changes 16 on the next page, the first paragraph are the same. Second -- 17 it's all the same until we get to the last gray under 5.01.E. 18 We included the City of Kerrville and the City of Ingram as 19 areas that qualify as high-density development areas. We had 20 not included them previously, just the ETJ's. The next change 21 is on the next page, and again, this is the same issue on the 22 water, T.C.E.Q. issue. Next page, 19, there's no change here. 23 I'm just highlighting, 'cause we are going to get in some of 24 the FEMA issues later. There's no change here. Concrete 25 monuments are still required if any portion of a subdivision 11-13-06 142 1 is in the floodplain. And then the next one, there was just a 2 change in spacing for drainage; there's no substantive change 3 there. Next is Page 26, and there is -- we need to hand-write 4 in a change -- where did I write it? I thought I wrote it -- 5 let me look at my other 26. I'm looking for something. I 6 have a handwritten note somewhere, and it's not on the copy 7 that I grabbed to look for. Anyway, the change here is the 8 second sentence, "Minimum size shall be 21 inches vertical and 9 26 inches horizontal." That should be 24 inch and 36 inch, 10 and that's what the surveyors say fits better. And this is no 11 longer an issue, because we're changing our plat cabinet 12 system where we're not going to use plat cabinets. 13 MR. ODOM: I'm sorry, did you say 36 or 30? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 36. 15 MR. ODOM: So, minimum is 24 and 36? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The -- the maximum sizes are 18 correct? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. Next, on Page 27, you 20 might remember that -- I think Don Voelkel was the main one 21 speaking -- that there is a potential problem that if we put 22 the actual base flood elevation number on a plat lot, that 23 that number is changed. The current language is as we have in 24 B, and then the first shaded part under 6.02.C.13. That's 25 currently in there, but what I would propose doing is adding 11-13-06 143 1 the second two paragraphs of 6.02.C.13, which will then read, 2 for subdivisions that lie within all or part of the 100-year 3 floodplain, the current 100-year floodplain shall be shaded on 4 the plat and a plat note shall be added to the plat as 5 follows: Lots numbered "blank" have areas within the 100-year 6 floodplain, as shown on flood insurance rate map number 7 "blank", dated "blank", and shaded hereon. Prior to any 8 construction on these lots, owner shall obtain a floodplain 9 development permit from Kerr County Floodplain Administrator 10 to insure compliance with Kerr County Flood Damage Prevention 11 Order. So, we would also then take the Paragraph B above and 12 move that down below that, that paragraph I just read. The 13 question is -- we have two questions here. One, I know 14 probably Leonard could read it, or -- I don't know if Rex 15 wants to look at this a little bit. There is a requirement 16 under the federal statutes that -- what's that -- read that 17 sentence about data, Leonard, would you? 18 MR. ODOM: Well, it essentially says that you can 19 have a shaded area, but then the other comes back and says 20 that -- requires that all new subdivision proposals and other 21 proposed developments, including proposals for manufactured 22 home parks and subdivisions greater than 50 lots or 5 acres, 23 whichever is lesser, include within such proposal base flood 24 elevation data. So, I take that to be finished floor. 25 However, it says one thing in 60.22, and then in 60.3, it 11-13-06 144 1 comes back and it says these parameters. And so -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The question is, does base flood 3 elevation data mean a number, or does it mean a shaded area? 4 MR. ODOM: Shaded area. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or can it mean a shaded area? 6 MR. EMERSON: I'll find out for you. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 8 MR. ODOM: And if we do -- excuse me. If we do 9 change the thing, we need to change our Flood Prevention 10 Order. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We need to change that either 12 way, 'cause this is different than any language we have, and 13 we need to get them into the same -- the Flood Prevention 14 Order definitely needs to be changed once we decide on the 15 language we want to use. Next, on Page 33, the paragraph 16 that's shaded we moved to this location. Same language, but 17 it was in a spot that it wasn't practical on how the money was 18 being spent. They need to -- this is now done before the 19 final plat. Anyway, it's just more a timing issue as to when 20 that data's actually done. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a good one. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No change. And the -- 42, I 23 think that's the last one -- yeah, 42. Some of our -- we 24 require 8-inch base in some roads, collectors and arterials, 25 and we added that language in here to allow that, you know, 11-13-06 145 1 8 inches. We used to say 6 inches, and it was in conflict 2 with another paragraph. And then on Page 47, as you've heard 3 -- well, first on 46, under Minimum Requirements, we had a 4 typo under Arterial Road. We say 90 feet; previously it just 5 said 90. Then on the next page, adding some language to 6 give -- Kerr County Subdivision Administrator may approve 7 equivalent depth requirements and base materials to meet the 8 requirements for minimum compacted depth of base and minimum 9 base material; see Section 7.06.8 and Appendix I. That's 10 giving, basically, Leonard a little flexibility, that if he's 11 out there on a road that is an existing road, it may not have 12 the specified -- the current specification exactly for the 13 base; however, in his opinion, it's an equivalent, he can make 14 that approval without having to come to us and give us a 15 waiver. That's it. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you want approval, or are 17 you going to let these other people look at it and come back? 18 Or -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would probably say that, you 20 know, Rex needs to look clearly at that one, because that's 21 something that we definitely don't want to get in violation of 22 the federal statute in the floodplain, and see exactly what we 23 need to do there. I think the change is a good one. The 24 recommendation -- if we can do it. On the first one, I think 25 I just need direction from the Court what we want to allow on 11-13-06 146 1 lot size with T.C.E.Q., 'cause -- and, see, I have -- 2 certainly, it's stricter than it was. We can change it to 3 what I recommended, or we can modify it a little bit and just 4 require that they have a contract on the -- on how the 5 community -- the non-T.C.E.Q. water systems are to be managed. 6 Whenever we get these finalized, we need to approve them and 7 do a public hearing. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You know, just -- just the 9 contract doesn't necessarily solve the problem. If you do a 10 linear contract and suddenly have a change of mind and not 11 renew the contract, you got the same problem all over again. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Probably a bigger problem. 13 Probably. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If you have a contract? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Even if you have a contract, the 17 consequences if they don't follow it. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let me ask you again, 19 Commissioner. I may not be listening as well as I should. 20 The T.C.E.Q. has got some minimum, either 15 -- 14 or 15 or 21 16; we're not sure. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Are we going to be 24 requiring systems -- community systems with fewer than that to 25 get a T.C.E.Q. license? 11-13-06 147 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, 'cause T.C.E.Q. will not 2 give the license. We're just saying that you're not going to 3 get -- if you're going to be less than 15 connections, and not 4 a family connection, then you're going to have to have 5-acre 5 lot sizes. That's what we're saying. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. I'm all right with 7 that. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay with me. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What will Headwaters require? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If that's -- if that is 11 agreeable, then I think we probably could approve it subject 12 to Rex looking at the language, and we'll just go with the 13 version that's required by federal law. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And we need to set a public 16 hearing. I did make a motion to approve them subject to 17 visiting with the County Attorney on the one floodplain issue, 18 and set a public hearing. Rex, do we need 30 days, or can we 19 do it in 15 days, since I don't think there was actually any 20 requirement for a public hearing? Or is there, on these 21 rules? 22 MR. EMERSON: I think there is a requirement for a 23 public hearing under Subdivision Rules. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 30 days? 25 MR. EMERSON: It is. 11-13-06 148 1 JUDGE TINLEY: At least, yeah. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, need to have a public 3 hearing. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: 27th? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: January 8th. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: January 8th, 2007. This way we 7 won't have a problem with the other one, either. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 27th. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, we can do it -- when's our 10 first meeting in December? Nope, it will have to be 11 January 8th. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: What time? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 11:00? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We have a motion for approval 15 and setting a public hearing -- approval subject to the 16 working out of the floodplain base flood elevation language, 17 and setting the public hearing for January 8th, '07, at 18 11 a.m. Any question or discussion on the motion? All in 19 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, why don't we -- why 25 don't we break for lunch, let these people go eat lunch, and 11-13-06 149 1 then we'll come back and pay bills and get our reports, and 2 that's it. I mean, we're -- but you're talking about more 3 than just a few minutes. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Well -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You have -- don't you have an 6 item yet? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, we're down to bills and 8 reports now. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: No. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: From the departments? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: At least we ought to do that 12 while they're here. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah, they've waited a long 14 time. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We've got the Auditor; he's 17 ready to go. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I didn't think he had the 19 energy. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Let's move to Item 25, 21 departmental reports. Facilities and Maintenance. I think we 22 kind of already got that this morning, didn't we? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: I think we can draw a line through 25 that one. 11-13-06 150 1 MS. DAVIDSON: It's okay? Bye, then. Is that it? 2 Bye. See y'all. Thank you. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: That put a smile on their face as 4 they ran to lunch. I.T. John? How bad do you want to go to 5 lunch? 6 MR. TROLINGER: Is it lunchtime? Good afternoon. 7 I've just got two items on the written report that I 8 distributed this morning. Y'all should have a copy. The 9 Sheriff's starting -- starting a program of scanning his paper 10 documents in the jail, and law enforcement's real good at that 11 end. It's going to simplify life a lot for the Sheriff's 12 Office. Odyssey public access is online for criminal and 13 civil jail and bond records, Tax Assessor and appraisal 14 records. I consider this to be the substantial completion of 15 the project. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Appraisal's online now? 17 MR. TROLINGER: Tax, yes. Tax and appraisal; I 18 lumped it together. But it's the Tax Assessor/Collector. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: About the privacy notice stuff 20 on law enforcement officers? 21 MR. TROLINGER: That -- that's -- I think you're 22 referring to the employee records? 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well -- 24 MR. TROLINGER: Privacy statement? Or the -- 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Referring to a law enforcement 11-13-06 151 1 officer's home address and things like that online, okay? And 2 I think that there was -- and I was told -- Diane wasn't there 3 when I went to talk with her about forms that can be signed to 4 keep law enforcement officers' home addresses off of the 5 public data. 6 MR. TROLINGER: Yes. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And if there is, I would 8 appreciate you waiting to put all that online until we can get 9 those officers' addresses privatized if that officer wants it. 10 I don't think he needs to have his -- his home address put 11 online to anybody that wants to pull it up. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with you. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that permitted under state law? 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 15 MR. TROLINGER: I met with the Tax Assessor -- 16 JUDGE TINLEY: They've got a good lobby, don't they? 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't know where it came 18 from, but this is on officers' personal information and on 19 addresses. 20 MR. TROLINGER: I met with the Tax Assessor about a 21 month ago regarding this when -- when we got serious about 22 putting the records online, and she told me that there was 23 a -- basically a form that could be filled out by law 24 enforcement officers, and I think there was another group, and 25 I went to each -- what I thought was the department that was 11-13-06 152 1 involved, the Sheriff being the number one, and notified them. 2 But it's probably been -- 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What did I tell you? I wanted 4 to get the forms, and I haven't had a chance to get the forms. 5 And I hope you don't have it already online, 'cause Diane 6 wasn't there when I went to get -- 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Is this about protecting 8 the home address of law enforcement officers? I can Google 9 you on the internet this afternoon and find out what the 10 square footage of your house is. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, no, a lot of that 12 appraisal stuff did go off, okay? 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm just using that as an 14 example. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. But, no, I think with 16 law enforcement -- 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: If they want to find out 18 where you live, they're going to find out. 19 MR. TROLINGER: In any case, the records are already 20 available on the Central Appraisal District's website, for the 21 most part. And this is basically the same thing, but with the 22 payment history that the Tax Assessor -- where the tax 23 collections history has been added to it. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Will there be a problem going 25 in there and removing his address? 11-13-06 153 1 MR. TROLINGER: From the Tax Assessor's site? No. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Anybody's site. 3 MR. TROLINGER: But from the Central Appraisal, I 4 don't have any say-so over that. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But there are forms. I think 6 every officer needs to be given a chance to get those forms 7 filled out. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why haven't you done that up 9 to this -- before today? 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Because that first came up 11 election night, and Diane Bolin wasn't available to get the 12 forms, and people in her office didn't know. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've never heard such whining 14 in my life. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I just think it's jumping too 16 quick to give officers' addresses. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, we'll do everything we 18 can to take them out, if you'll provide them with the -- 19 whoever wants to be protected. Right? 20 MR. TROLINGER: Actually, it's up to the Tax 21 Assessor/Collector; it's not up to me. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The only heartburn I have over 24 it is they agreed to wait until we could see what the officers 25 were doing, and that didn't happen. 11-13-06 154 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with you. 2 MR. TROLINGER: And it sounds like the Sheriff did 3 not have that meeting with Diane Bolin in time to head this 4 off. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's correct. Now I'm mad. 6 MR. TROLINGER: And I assisted the Collections 7 Department with financial reporting and automation, and I'd 8 like to commend Collections. Brad's doing a really good job 9 at taking advantage of the Odyssey system in general, and 10 helping other departments implement the system. And we're 11 starting to take advantage of the advance features, especially 12 in his office. Those are the highlights I wanted to give. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What do you mean in this 14 one? "The County Clerk's office continues to assess fees and 15 court costs when filing new cases? I.T. will no longer pursue 16 this issue." 17 MR. TROLINGER: I got in the middle of a procedural 18 policy, how things are done in the office, issue at some point 19 two months ago -- before that, and made an attempt to get -- 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Impose your rule? 21 MR. TROLINGER: -- the procedure changed. I -- I 22 came and reported to y'all on that. You kind of nodded your 23 heads and said yes. I made the change. They changed it back. 24 That's as much as I can do. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 11-13-06 155 1 MR. TROLINGER: I talked to all the parties 2 involved. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 4 MR. TROLINGER: Just a better way of doing things. 5 It's procedural. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: John, what's your feeling on 7 getting all the problems resolved with Odyssey that came out 8 -- that were kind of put forward by the president, or whoever 9 those folks were? I know I sat in on that meeting for a 10 while, and Buster did as well. Can't remember who else. When 11 they came down here and admitted that there was -- they sold 12 the product to us that had a lot more problems than they 13 thought. And, actually, it wasn't -- they weren't concerned 14 they sold it to us; it's that they sold it to others after us. 15 Is that -- are you comfortable with that? We're getting what 16 the taxpayers paid for? 17 MR. TROLINGER: For the courts, I am. For law 18 enforcement and jail, there are issues that need to be 19 resolved, but for the courts side, I'm very satisfied with the 20 software system. And to answer your question, Software Group 21 will be here tomorrow with that list that was generated when 22 they came on-site and met with the Sheriff and with you all. 23 They'll be here tomorrow all day to meet with the -- one-hour 24 period each with the various offices and departments. And 25 then the actual changes go in effect for tests tomorrow night, 11-13-06 156 1 and then Wednesday night is when they go live on our -- what's 2 called production system. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, you think that with a -- 4 within a reasonable period of time, they will fix all of the 5 problems that are known? I mean, granted, there's some new 6 ones that may come up. I guess my -- let me go -- head this a 7 little bit different way. 8 MR. TROLINGER: Uh-huh. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're spending a lot of money on 10 this software, and we did it in large part because of a 11 personnel savings down the road, which didn't happen this year 12 because there were problems with the system. Is it going to 13 be rectified this year? 14 MR. TROLINGER: Is what going to be rectified? This 15 is -- there are 3,000 screens on this system; it's just huge. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, but -- I understand that. 17 MR. TROLINGER: The major -- the prime issues that 18 were brought out, I believe tomorrow they're going to visit 19 with each office, each department, and address -- "Here's what 20 we're fixing today," literally, and "Here's what's going to be 21 fixed in December, and then here's what's going to be fixed in 22 March of next year." That's their outlook right now. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. So, their goal is to have 24 everything working properly by March '07? 25 MR. TROLINGER: It's hard to say. Software is just 11-13-06 157 1 so complex. You know, tomorrow we may find a problem and have 2 to delay December. But, no, the only outlook that I've got 3 right now is that we've got a patch cycle and a release cycle, 4 and those are the dates that I have right now. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let me come at it from the 6 back door. Has anything been identified by our user group 7 that they have refused to fix? 8 MR. TROLINGER: No. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. Just -- 11 MR. TROLINGER: Not that I know of. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just wanted to make sure we got 13 what we paid for. 14 MR. TROLINGER: But just -- just the example that 15 you gave where they -- they stopped the sales process until 16 they get everything caught up to where it needs to be. I'm 17 really encouraged with the support, and it's second to none 18 for the -- for what it is. Software's a very complex, 19 expensive thing. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Expensive, yes. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions for 24 Mr. Trolinger? Thank you, sir. 25 MR. TROLINGER: You're welcome. 11-13-06 158 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Road and Bridge? 2 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. Road projects, September and 3 October, used approximately 16,000 gallons of oil to seal Kerr 4 Country Drive, Stonybrook, Drummond, Andrew. We're still 5 working -- waiting on paperwork from the property owner there 6 in Upper Turtle Creek so we can open that realignment; we 7 haven't heard anything or got anything, so I don't know where 8 that status is at this point. We're just waiting for them to 9 come through and open it up. We have two crews repairing -- 10 the streets were torn up for the sewer projects in Kerrville 11 South. We've essentially got that done. Talking to Gail this 12 morning, we feel like the final level-ups and all that we'll 13 have done. Should be done by the end of this week, so we'll 14 keep a tally of that, and will get reimbursed from the 15 contractor on our asphalt. And so we'll keep -- that was the 16 meeting I had with that gentleman, to get reimbursed from his 17 account. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that the plan, to 19 reimburse us for asphalt? 20 MR. ODOM: Asphalt. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What about time? Hours? 22 MR. ODOM: Well, I -- you know, that's something I 23 guess the Court needs to address. I was told go do it. 24 That's what I'm doing. So, I want at least my material, 25 because I did not have that. So that is something -- 11-13-06 159 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I thought the grant included 2 the putting the streets back into the condition prior to. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, the grant paid for -- 4 there's a bone of contention here that has to get resolved. 5 We'll have to work our way through it. The contractor 6 contends that he restored the cuts -- fills and cuts up to 7 what the specifications called for. You're shaking your head, 8 but that's what he contends. 9 MR. ODOM: Yeah. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And I've raised the issue 11 with the engineer, because we've had to spend time and 12 materials to put a layer on top of where he let off about an 13 inch. 14 MR. ODOM: About an inch. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: About an inch. 16 MR. ODOM: Right. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In order to finally do a 18 sealcoat at some point in time, when Leonard gets around to 19 doing that. So, we have to work our way through the issue, 20 see if we can get reimbursed for it. 21 MR. ODOM: Part of the problem was that we had an 22 appendix which shows how to do that. What was proposed at the 23 initial meeting was a variance from that to bring it up to 24 3,000 p.s.i. concrete, so we wouldn't have to cement it. That 25 was flush. What happened is that the city inspector got there 11-13-06 160 1 and changed everything up, and dropped it down to an inch. In 2 other words, city inspector says, "This is what we want. 3 You're not going to put this 3,000 p.s.i. in there; we may 4 have to dig it up sometime in the future." 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's why we have this 6 issue. 7 MR. ODOM: That's the reason there is a problem. 8 And so the plan was doing sort of what it was said. So, I 9 think that is something that we can address at some time in 10 the future, but I just tell you that the asphalt is something 11 I did not budget for to be used like that. So, I feel like if 12 I can get that money, that is just something that -- it's over 13 with and we go on down the road. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're saying that we address 15 this in the future. Did you just tell us that the city 16 inspector is making decisions on county roads? 17 MR. ODOM: That's correct, sir. That was their 18 project. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, not on county roads. 20 He made a change after the specifications have been all agreed 21 to, specifications of the project, which the contractor 22 adhered to and the engineer had certified and we agreed to. 23 Then the city inspector came along and said no, we can't have 24 that. I've got to make a change in terms of the fill, so that 25 makes it easier for us if there's a line break somewhere to go 11-13-06 161 1 down there and find the line break and fix it. The result of 2 that was, the contractor did what -- then adhered to the 3 change recommended by the City, and filling it back up, he 4 came to within an inch or an inch and a half of the top. That 5 created the problem. So, the change wasn't the contractor's 6 fault, wasn't our fault. It was the change that was initiated 7 by the city Public Works Department that created the problem. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, the City -- was the City -- 9 I'm kind of where Buster is. Was the City inspecting the 10 roads or the sewer? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They were inspecting the 12 fill. The cut and the fill. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I don't have a problem 14 -- well, I got a problem with it either way, but if they're 15 inspecting the sewer line which they're going to end up -- 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Maintaining. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- maintaining, they have a 18 reason to make some comment. But they don't have any business 19 inspecting our roads. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, that wasn't the case. I 21 don't think we're trying to say that they were inspecting the 22 road. They were inspecting the cut and the fill and the cap, 23 and they changed the specs. 24 MR. ODOM: Changed the specs. And so the aftermath 25 was, here's what I had. 11-13-06 162 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why don't you send the City the 2 bill? 3 MR. ODOM: Well, I want to get paid for my material. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I understand. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: See if we can work it out. 6 MR. ODOM: I want to see if we can work it out. 7 That's what I said. Well, I believe that the contractor will 8 reimburse me for that amount of money. We're keeping up with 9 the material that I'm using. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're keeping track of it? 11 MR. ODOM: Keeping track of it, and we'll go from 12 there. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: I assume this was the city engineer, 14 was it not? 15 MR. ODOM: Sir, I don't know. Whoever the inspector 16 was from the city. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Public Works Department, 18 Judge, and the person they assign to constant inspection of 19 that -- of those pipes and insulation of those pipes. And he 20 put his head together with the Public Works Director, and 21 together they came up with a decision that affected what we're 22 talking about. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: It wasn't some guy out there on the 24 end of a shovel who just decided to -- 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. 11-13-06 163 1 JUDGE TINLEY: -- we want to do this differently? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 4 MR. ODOM: We're currently working on a list of 5 roads that need to be sealcoated this budget year, and when I 6 complete that -- we have it together; we just haven't 7 formulated it. And I've looked at my calculations. We'll 8 furnish you a copy of that, and have our calendars built for 9 the remainder of the year. Office project. You can see that 10 the subdivision plats, as well as the floodplain permits are 11 there. I do have a question on Center Point school. I would 12 assume -- I don't know if it's December or January; I forgot 13 to look, but that's coming up pretty soon. I would assume to 14 extend that again. And this would be the second extension. 15 So, they have built a home; someone's living in it, but no 16 one's ever built the road up there. So, when that comes due, 17 I'll come to the Court again about that. What do we do? Do 18 we just extend the -- renew the permit? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which one are you talking 20 about? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Center Point. 22 MR. ODOM: Center Point school. That's where they 23 were going to build multiples homes in there and build the 24 road. Of course, our subdivision -- new Subdivision Rules say 25 two years, right? Extension over -- 11-13-06 164 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll pick up the discussion 2 with the superintendent over there, 'cause I think they've 3 probably put a hold on building additional homes there. 4 MR. ODOM: Yeah. I haven't seen anything else going 5 on, but they have one there, and someone's living in it. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 7 MR. ODOM: And also on Privilege Creek, recently -- 8 in the last week, I believe -- Wayne Wells and I met with 9 them, went over their drainage study, and had some problems 10 there. We discussed roads. One of the issues -- I believe 11 that that can be resolved internally there on that 12 subdivision, but one of the points that I brought to the young 13 man that's the engineer for it was egress/ingress into the 14 subdivision. And I don't know how they're going to resolve 15 that, but showing in some manner -- my suggestion was legal 16 counsel to somehow address that they have egress/ingress. 17 Because that subdivision entrance is in Kendall County, and 18 there's a stretch of road, apparently, when this was put 19 together from that cul-de-sac that never was built, so that's 20 an issue they're going to have to take up with Kendall County. 21 So, I'm just telling you now, they may be coming to something, 22 but I don't see how we can until I find out we have 23 egress/ingress. I'm not a lawyer. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're working with Rex on that? 25 MR. ODOM: Well, at this point -- I will when they 11-13-06 165 1 come to me with how they're going to do that. I have 2 discussed it with Rex. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- I think you -- the word 4 should be rescind, not resend. Just on -- 5 MR. ODOM: Where am I at? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Under Privilege Creek Ranches. 7 It says type -- second category, it says cancel; then it says 8 resend. 9 MR. ODOM: Oh. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just a typo. Otherwise -- 11 MR. EMERSON: Just to expand on that, too, the last 12 conversation I had with David Jackson about two weeks ago was 13 that he was anticipating things gearing up on a case that was 14 going to go all the way up. He said there were plenty of 15 resource on both sides of the ball game, and there wasn't 16 anything else out there particularly like it, and he 17 anticipated it going all the way up. So, we'll see. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Support your local Bar Association. 19 MR. EMERSON: Yes, sir. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Odom. 21 MR. ODOM: All right. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One quickie -- just two 23 things. You got in there, first of all, the Court needs to 24 note there is an issue with Martin Marietta. I see where the 25 -- you're still waiting for the application? 11-13-06 166 1 MR. ODOM: Right, sir. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would mean they have 3 not filed the application? 4 MR. ODOM: They have not filed the application. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There is an issue kind of 6 like the fat lady waiting to sing in the wings. There's an 7 issue in the wings on this one, so the Court needs to be aware 8 of that. Secondly, what with respect to Flat Rock -- Flat 9 Rock Dam, I received a report from T.C.E.Q. Dam Safety 10 Division too late to get it on the court agenda. I've got it, 11 and I'll put it on the court agenda next time. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What is it? What did they 13 say? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There's some minor things we 15 need to talk about. 16 MR. ODOM: And for your general information, I will 17 be at another seminar this week. I think I'll be back Friday, 18 I think. I leave tomorrow. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You sure do get educated a lot. 20 MR. ODOM: Well, you can tell, if I have "rescind" 21 down there -- Rex went to English class. I was totally 22 impressed that he had the vocabulary to be able to define the 23 information you wanted. And you can tell that mine was 24 football practice, and I missed it -- that class, okay? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Let the record reflect they're both 11-13-06 167 1 A & M graduates. 2 MR. ODOM: Yes, but he went to class, and I -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You played football. 4 MR. ODOM: I stayed in the tape room all the time. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What's important, anyhow. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: When you go to that seminar, Leonard, 7 if you wouldn't mind taking that bright inspector from the 8 city with you, maybe you can -- 9 MR. ODOM: He's been out there. Our people have 10 been talking to him, and, you know, he was caught in a 11 situation where he was told to do something, and that's sort 12 of the way it was. Do it this way, or they would not maintain 13 the maintenance of it. So, I'm making it work. We're almost 14 through, so it's almost history. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. 16 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you have any more money than what 18 you show on your report, Brad? 19 MR. ALFORD: Yes, sir. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Good. Put it up here. 21 MR. ALFORD: It'll currently be on your desk. 22 Submitted y'all the stats that y'all have become used to -- 23 used to through Mr. Trolinger. I mean, we're -- right now, 24 basically, we're 3 or 4 percent higher this time this year 25 than we were last year, so we're still working. 11-13-06 168 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why not more? 2 MR. ALFORD: Why are they that much higher? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why aren't you higher? 4 MR. ALFORD: Don't know. Don't have an answer for 5 you. Judge, I did find -- your 6 percent was turned into 6 5 percent. So, the -- 7 JUDGE TINLEY: That's when they got time served? 8 MR. ALFORD: Time served. There's 30,000 in 9 warrants, 988 outstanding in attorney's fees, 14,000 still on 10 payment plans, 2,500 still in T.D.C., and that equals the 11 total of 6 percent, which is now 5 percent, because some of it 12 was restitution that was turned over through Probation. So, 13 actually, our collection rate that the State recommended is 14 almost 90 -- it's 95 percent instead of 94 percent. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Appreciate your work. 16 MR. ALFORD: Will's still over at the County 17 Attorney -- or not County Attorney. Nevermind, you can't have 18 him too. Still over in the County Clerk's office at least two 19 days a week, sometimes more, sometimes less. But he's 20 scheduled to be over there two days a week. That seems to be 21 pretty well going -- 22 JUDGE TINLEY: That's working out okay? 23 MR. ALFORD: Yes, sir. So far, so good. We're 24 still doing indigent health checks for them, and that seems to 25 be a pretty smooth flow for information back and forth via 11-13-06 169 1 e-mails. That's really about it. I mean, it's -- we're 2 rocking along. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Anybody got any questions for 4 Mr. Alford? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good job. 6 MR. ALFORD: Thank you, sir. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. Anybody got any 8 executive session items as a result of matters we discussed in 9 open session? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do we need to go in executive 11 session to talk about cheeseburgers and -- 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, we can. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- fries? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Aggies and inspectors? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, let's get on to Section IV. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Mr. Attorney, could I see 18 you for about 30 seconds after we get through here? 19 MR. EMERSON: Sure. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thank you. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm next. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Forget lunch. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move we pay the bills. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to pay the 11-13-06 170 1 bills. Any question or discussion? Okay, what is this item 2 on professional, almost $5,000 on Commissioners Court, first 3 page? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Law Offices of Charles? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I want to be Charles. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 8 MR. TOMLINSON: It's legal fees on -- for our 9 defense on a case that he represented for -- against our law 10 enforcement liability. $10,000 deductible, that we pay 11 everything up to that. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Why is that charged to Commissioners 13 Court? We ought to charge it to the Sheriff's salary. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Ha. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: Which page are you on? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm on Page 1. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Page 1. 18 (Discussion off the record.) 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we should take it out of 20 the Sheriff, but -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 22 (Discussion off the record.) 23 MR. TOMLINSON: It's a law enforcement -- 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's still going on. 25 MR. TOMLINSON: Law enforcement case. 11-13-06 171 1 JUDGE TINLEY: But that's a -- 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's an inmate lawsuit. It's 3 a guy that fell out of a bunk. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: It occurs to me that we need to 5 charge that against the Sheriff. 6 MR. TOMLINSON: We've always -- we've always 7 budgeted that there. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Page 14, if we might, the 9 reimbursement for phone expense. I notice that -- that that 10 J.P. is approximately double the other J.P.'s. I assume 11 that's a cell phone issue. The following two pages, you've 12 got 3 and 4. Are we talking about apples and oranges, or are 13 we talking about apples and apples? 14 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't know. It could be more than 15 one month. I don't -- there's some people don't turn them in 16 every month, so I'd have to look. I have to look at the bill. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: I think that maybe brings us to -- we 18 called -- we mentioned at some time about trying to limit the 19 number of cell phones we have and limit the -- the allowance 20 that we were going to give for cell phones. I have the 21 impression that maybe some of these cell phones aren't used 22 totally on county business, but I have no way of knowing that 23 for sure. Page 25 and Page 48, the prisoner med. Why do we 24 have different entries? I thought we went totally to indigent 25 health care system off of the -- of the jail medical. 11-13-06 172 1 MR. TOMLINSON: We did. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: We're paying the -- for the 4 prisoners that are not on indigent health care, we're paying 5 through the jail budget. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. These are -- these are 7 non-qualifying -- non-qualified under the indigent health 8 care, okay. 9 MR. TOMLINSON: The bills get paid at the same rate; 10 they just get paid through the jail budget. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Categorized differently. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Question on that, Tommy. I 13 thought that was -- that group was going to qualify. 14 MR. TOMLINSON: No, I wrote you a memo on that. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I got two memos on that, how 16 the billing was going to work, but I thought back in their 17 sales deal, all inmates would be indigent. 18 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. 20 MR. TOMLINSON: They get paid at the same rate. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Page 45 real quick. The 23 Alamo Iron Works and Dynamic Fastener for the park. Does that 24 have to do with our trying to bridge Third Creek? What's the 25 deal with that? 11-13-06 173 1 MR. TOMLINSON: I have to look at the bill. I don't 2 know what it is. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Three grand's not a whole lot of 5 iron, is it? Not any more. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments? All 8 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 9 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 11 (No response.) 12 MR. TOMLINSON: We have 55 pages of bills, and I 13 can't remember them all. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You can't? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tommy. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm surprised at that. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to budget amendments. 18 Budget Amendment Request Number 1. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay, 1 is for Road and Bridge, to 20 transfer -- their request is to transfer $474 from 21 Contingencies to the Insurance for vehicles. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move to approve. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 25 approval. Any question or discussion? All in favor of the 11-13-06 174 1 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 2 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 4 (No response.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Budget Amendment 6 Request 2. 7 MR. TOMLINSON: 2 is for D.P.S. They requested that 8 we transfer 36.39 from the Telephone line item to 9 Miscellaneous for -- it's for a notary stamp and record book 10 for the clerk. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move to approve. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and second. All in 14 favor, indicate by raising your right hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I thought he was going to 20 bring Kerr County's newest employee over to meet us. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: She's been around. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: She has not been in this 23 courtroom. 24 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. I met her. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I mean, that was our 11-13-06 175 1 agreement with him. 2 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hire her and bring her over 4 here so we can meet her, our own employee. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: He gets grouchy when he 6 misses his lunch. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Talking about the DPS 8 secretary? I know. They brought her out to our office, Tommy 9 did. Tommy may be gone and didn't get to bring her around 10 here. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Budget Amendment Request 3. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: All right. 3 is from County 13 Extension. They have a request to transfer 795 from Operating 14 Equipment to Repairs and Maintenance to install a keypad lock 15 for the Extension Office. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: We got security problems out there, 17 Sheriff? 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Not that I'm aware of. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: They're -- they told me that they 20 were having a hard time with -- with the meeting room that's 21 adjacent to the office, having control over who goes in and 22 who -- and so they'll know who's been in and who's been in the 23 facility. So that by giving out the code to the people that 24 need to be there, then they have some control over -- 25 JUDGE TINLEY: The first time they go there. 11-13-06 176 1 Subsequent times they go there, they'll never know about it. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, the code -- the lock records 4 who goes in. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The newer ones will record 6 every time somebody goes through them and who went through. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Pretty good deal. That building 8 gets used a lot by a lot of different people. Move for 9 approval. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 12 of Budget Amendment Request 3. Any question or discussion? 13 All in favor, signify by raising your right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Budget Amendment 18 Request 4. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay, 4 is for Elections, to 20 transfer 296 from Signs to Software Maintenance. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 24 approval. Any question or discussion? All in favor, signify 25 by raising your right hand. 11-13-06 177 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Budget Amendment 5 Request 5. 6 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. 5 is for the 216th District 7 Court. They need to transfer $10,060.37 from Court-Appointed 8 Attorney line item to Court-Appointed Services. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved, with a comment. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Question 12 or comment? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tommy, next time you bring one 14 of these to the Court, let's put a little extra money -- go 15 ahead and move more than is needed, 'cause don't we use 16 Court-appointed services off and on throughout the year? 17 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, it's not used that -- that 18 frequently. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Psychiatrists and that. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Is this on that Mexican national 21 case? 22 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: We where we had the Mexican Consulate 24 involved and psychiatrists lined up three deep out in the hall 25 or something. 11-13-06 178 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 2 MR. TOMLINSON: That's what it's for. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right, that's fine. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We're going to have a lot more 5 next month. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Does that include 7 interpreters? 8 MR. TOMLINSON: (Witness nodded.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments? All 10 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We have any 15 late bills? 16 MR. TOMLINSON: I have one, payable to CDW 17 Government, Inc., and it's for the purchase of a -- a computer 18 for Human Resources. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: How much? 20 MR. TOMLINSON: $1,064.99. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move to approve. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Any 24 question or discussion? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Trolinger -- this was 11-13-06 179 1 initiated by Trolinger? 2 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Just a comment, that Eva's 4 scrounged most of the furniture and everything else she 5 needed, a lot of it from Juvenile Detention Facility, so she's 6 been very frugal with taking care of our taxpayers' money down 7 there. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I think most of it came out of my 9 office. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I thought the -- 11 MR. EMERSON: I think we donated a pretty good 12 share, too. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The computer also? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: The computer temporarily until this 15 new one came in, which that's fine. That's -- better her use 16 it than me. Any other questions or comments? All in favor of 17 the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 18 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. I've been presented 22 monthly reports from the District Clerk for September '06; 23 J.P. 2, September '06; J.P. 2, October '06; J.P. 3 and J.P. 4. 24 Do I hear a motion that these reports be approved as 25 presented? 11-13-06 180 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 4 approval. Any question or discussion? All in favor of the 5 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. You got any 10 reports from any Commissioners in connection with their 11 committee or liaison assignments? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir, thank you. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I do. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Very -- he does. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Commissioner Nicholson and I 16 began the process of going through 25 applications for 17 replacement for Ms. Mitchell. We narrowed that down to eight, 18 I believe, that we're going to interview, and we intend to 19 winnow that down to three or four that we're going to present 20 to the Court. And we'd like to have a meeting scheduled for 21 that purpose next Monday, maybe in the 9:30 time frame or 22 10 o'clock time frame. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: With the Court? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm, for the final 25 interviews. 11-13-06 181 1 JUDGE TINLEY: What's the Court's pleasure? What 2 time? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Doesn't make any difference. 4 Nine -- or 10:00 is better for me. But, I mean -- 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 10 o'clock's good. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Ten's fine. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Ten will work. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: 10 o'clock. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. So, we'll tell 10 Ms. Mitchell to set that up. For Commissioner Baldwin's 11 benefit, he's asking when the retirement event will take place 12 for Mr. Notzon retiring from 35 years at AACOG. That will be 13 Sunday, January 28th, at San Antonio Convention Center, from 14 3 to 5 p.m. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sunday, January 28th. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. And one other 17 quickie. On the first two phases of Kerrville South project, 18 we waived the inspection fees for septic mitigation, and it 19 was my belief that we waived it for the entire Kerrville South 20 project. The Environmental Officer has asked whether or not 21 that applies to the current inspection fees for -- it would 22 have to be inspected on 82 more hookups -- mitigations. Do I 23 hear any change in our policy? If not, I'll tell him to 24 continue. Thank you. That's all I got, Judge. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Only comment I have is, I will 11-13-06 182 1 not be around for the meeting on Thursday, so everyone -- 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What's that meeting for? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's canvassing votes. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Canvass, and there's one other item 5 dealing with election issues, as I recall. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have a nephew's wedding that 7 I'm going to. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? We stand adjourned. 9 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 1:14 p.m.) 10 - - - - - - - - - - 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 11-13-06 183 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my 5 capacity as County Clerk of the Commissioners Court 6 of Kerr County, Texas, at the time and place 7 heretofore set forth. 8 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 17th day of 9 November, 2006. 10 11 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 12 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 13 Certified Shorthand Reporter 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 11-13-06